# Proof of Where GOD Came From



## WeedPublican (Oct 26, 2012)

The truth of how civilization started, you'll be glad you came across this....


[video=youtube;uAm-kbzT7xw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAm-kbzT7xw[/video]


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## tyler.durden (Oct 26, 2012)

tl;dw. I've seen an animation starring this little robot dude before, it may have even been this one. He states outlandish things as facts with nothing credible to support the claims. There definitely an agenda here. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any credible sources to back up his more outlandish 'facts'...


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 26, 2012)

First claim, we don't know how the pyramids of Giza were created.

Yes, we do. We know exactly how, with absolute models. Lots of people + lots of time = pyramids. 

And yes, modern tools and machinery could absolutely create ancient pyramids.


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## dashcues (Oct 26, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> First claim, we don't know how the pyramids of Giza were created.
> 
> Yes, we do. We know exactly how, with absolute models. Lots of people + lots of time = pyramids.
> 
> And yes, modern tools and machinery could absolutely create ancient pyramids.


Yeah...had to stop there.Just got out of a looooooong debate about the pyramids.
I finally gave up.It was aliens.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 26, 2012)

It's really strange how if something hasn't been explained, and some things that have been extensively explained (evolution), those types of people automatically conclude aliens or God, using a completely different set of standards than the one they used to dismiss the mountains of evidence.


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## Scrotie Mcboogerballs (Oct 26, 2012)

Whenever you stop worrying about labor laws and fair pay, the pyramids do not look so hard to build. People just don't comprehend the amount of time and labor that goes into something like that. Craftsmanship at its finest! lol


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## WeedPublican (Oct 26, 2012)

Well at the end of the day the universe is trillions of light years wide, for people to think that we are the only civilization is ignorance at its finest.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 26, 2012)

WeedPublican said:


> Well at the end of the day the universe is trillions of light years wide, for people to think that we are the only civilization is ignorance at its finest.


Show me the person who says it is unlikely that other life is out there. I have never seen that argument made outside of religion.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 26, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> It's really strange how if something hasn't been explained, and some things that have been extensively explained (evolution), those types of people automatically conclude aliens or God, using a completely different set of standards than the one they used to dismiss the mountains of evidence.


Its also kinda funny how many people are against the idea of ancient advanced knowledge when its clear that those structures could not be made with ropes, human labor, or soft metals, yet they still side with the simple explanation that doesnt make them question existence because that option makes them more comfortable.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 26, 2012)

I've watched this before and I dont know what to think about it, its quite far fetched for even me to wrap my mind around, I just know something amazing was going on back then. Very entertaining though. Im going to watch Cloud Atlas in a bit, I wonder how many skeptics will be there calling bullshit lol.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 26, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Its also kinda funny how many people are against the idea of ancient advanced knowledge when its clear that those structures could not be made with ropes, human labor, or soft metals, yet they still side with the simple explanation that doesnt make them question existence because that option makes them more comfortable.





Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I've watched this before and I dont know what to think about it, its quite far fetched for even me to wrap my mind around, I just know something amazing was going on back then. Very entertaining though. Im going to watch Cloud Atlas in a bit, I wonder how many skeptics will be there calling bullshit lol.


I've yet to see a single structure that couldn't have been made by ancient man. Just because you may not know how they did it doesn't mean it could not have been done. 

I saw Cloud Atlas today, way too many characters and time changes for me to follow, I didn't really like it..


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## Heisenberg (Oct 26, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Its also kinda funny how many people are against the idea of ancient advanced knowledge when its clear that those structures could not be made with ropes, human labor, or soft metals, yet they still side with the simple explanation that doesnt make them question existence because that option makes them more comfortable.


Why would questioning existence make us uncomfortable? I think the idea of ancient structures being made with the help of aliens is an awesome concept, I would find it quite exciting if there were any evidence. It would mean the aliens might come back one day and explain our existence to us. What a tantalizing thing to imagine. Following Occam's razor is proper logic, it has nothing to do with comfort.

Perhaps the idea of comfort gives you an out which lets you dismiss our positions.

"Great sweeping generalizations, particularly those purporting to know the thoughts and feelings of other people, are almost always wrong. It doesn't really matter whether you're a skeptic or a believer, black or white, gay or straight, Eastern or Western: when you catch yourself thinking you know the minds of others &#8212; and most especially when you assign them some sort of sub-human, amoral, or thoughtless traits &#8212; it's almost certainly you who is in the wrong." - Brian Dunning


"The whole reason researchers exist is to learn new stuff. Nobody funds research that's intended to not learn anything. Every working scientist's career is defined by his new discoveries; there is no work to be done, and no salary to be found, in accepting irrefutable truths and doing nothing. I've never met an archaeologist or anthropologist who wouldn't love to discover evidence of a superior early civilization. The reason we don't think there were any is not that we have an inflated sense of ourselves, it's that there's no evidence or record of it." - Brian Dunning


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 27, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I've yet to see a single structure that couldn't have been made by ancient man. Just because you may not know how they did it doesn't mean it could not have been done.
> 
> I saw Cloud Atlas today, way too many characters and time changes for me to follow, I didn't really like it..


You dont know how they did it as well and you only side with the more simple explanation because we have fancy toys that we think are advanced. 

I loved the show, it was a little confusing at first but I caught on to the pattern of the stories soon enough. Even though it was three hours long, I wish it was longer so the stories could mesh together more smoothly. I shoulda read the book first.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 27, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> "Great sweeping generalizations, particularly those purporting to know the thoughts and feelings of other people, are almost always wrong. It doesn't really matter whether you're a skeptic or a believer, black or white, gay or straight, Eastern or Western: when you catch yourself thinking you know the minds of others  and most especially when you assign them some sort of sub-human, amoral, or thoughtless traits  it's almost certainly you who is in the wrong." - Brian Dunning


And you are not guilty of this at all when discussing with or describing the 'believers' ?


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## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> And you are not guilty of this at all when discussing with or describing the 'believers' ?


Correct, I am not.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You dont know how they did it as well and you only side with the more simple explanation because we have fancy toys that we think are advanced.
> 
> I loved the show, it was a little confusing at first but I caught on to the pattern of the stories soon enough. Even though it was three hours long, I wish it was longer so the stories could mesh together more smoothly. I shoulda read the book first.


I don't need to know exactly how they did it, there is strong evidence to suggest how they did it, even stronger evidence as to when they did it. We have *no evidence* of aliens or divine intervention doing it. That's the point. As Heis mentioned, if aliens did it, that would be the coolest shit I've ever heard of, not only that, it would completely prove that we're not alone in the universe, one of the biggest questions we can ask as humans. I would welcome the idea. There is just nothing at all that says they did. The absence of evidence is not evidence. Just because we don't know with 100% certainty how it was done does not mean we can justifiably introduce unverifiable conclusions. 

How do we know a different species all together didn't do it? Why is asking how aliens did it any more valid than some ancient unidentified Earthbound species? Both are equally as valid because there is no evidence for either. Meanwhile, we know humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years, we know ancient humans built structures to last through time, and we know it is possible to accomplish such feats with only human innovation, ingenuity and a lot of time to do it. This suggests it was ancient man that did it. We even have writings from ancient Egypt detailing _how _they did it. 


I had a really tough time following the movie, I also didn't like the language the post apocalyptic tribe used, I could barely understand it, or the facial FX, they seemed a little off and not very believable, especially the last few scenes here the Chinese girl was supposed to be an English girl, I didn't buy that for a second.. And I thought the ending would tie everything together a little better than it did.. 

Titties though.. so that was cool.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You dont know how they did it as well and you only side with the more simple explanation because we have fancy toys that we think are advanced.


Following the simplest explanation of evidence is called parsimony. Can you name any phenomena in which the explanation which made unjust assumptions turned out to be correct?


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## ganja man23 (Oct 27, 2012)

WeedPublican said:


> The truth of how civilization started, you'll be glad you came across this....
> 
> 
> [video=youtube;uAm-kbzT7xw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAm-kbzT7xw[/video]


you should rephrase title to something like "history of humans". or "where the WORD god comes from". title tricked me since 'god' energy has always existed and will always exist.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 27, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I don't need to know exactly how they did it, there is strong evidence to suggest how they did it, even stronger evidence as to when they did it. We have *no evidence* of aliens or divine intervention doing it. That's the point. As Heis mentioned, if aliens did it, that would be the coolest shit I've ever heard of, not only that, it would completely prove that we're not alone in the universe, one of the biggest questions we can ask as humans. I would welcome the idea. There is just nothing at all that says they did. The absence of evidence is not evidence. Just because we don't know with 100% certainty how it was done does not mean we can justifiably introduce unverifiable conclusions.
> 
> How do we know a different species all together didn't do it? Why is asking how aliens did it any more valid than some ancient unidentified Earthbound species? Both are equally as valid because there is no evidence for either. Meanwhile, we know humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years, we know ancient humans built structures to last through time, and we know it is possible to accomplish such feats with only human innovation, ingenuity and a lot of time to do it. This suggests it was ancient man that did it. We even have writings from ancient Egypt detailing _how _they did it.
> 
> ...


You do not know that those feats are possible with basic human innovation. Are you referring to that old guy moving that rock on the discovery channel? Please, that doesnt even explain how Coral Castle was made, never mind the pyramids or any other massive ancient structures. Also, the perfect sculpting of giant granite blocks at Puma Punku was supposed to of been done with copper tools and chicken bones? The best stone masons of the world are baffled by this and wouldnt even bother attempting it with their technology. One of the only descriptions of moving these stones was done by Incas of a later generation. They tried to achieve what their predecessors have but they couldnt even drag one stone over a span of years with 20000 people. Do you honestly see only the slimmest chance if it being done by advanced knowledge? (btw, I do believe in the alien part, but I dont think they were much more intelligent than humans at the time, because we are a species with amnesia).

Yeah they should of just hired look-a-like actors for different races. It was a tough challenge though, the author did say the book was unfilmable.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 27, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I don't need to know exactly how they did it, there is strong evidence to suggest how they did it, even stronger evidence as to when they did it. We have *no evidence* of aliens or divine intervention doing it. That's the point. As Heis mentioned, if aliens did it, that would be the coolest shit I've ever heard of, not only that, it would completely prove that we're not alone in the universe, one of the biggest questions we can ask as humans. I would welcome the idea. There is just nothing at all that says they did. The absence of evidence is not evidence. Just because we don't know with 100% certainty how it was done does not mean we can justifiably introduce unverifiable conclusions.
> 
> How do we know a different species all together didn't do it? Why is asking how aliens did it any more valid than some ancient unidentified Earthbound species? Both are equally as valid because there is no evidence for either. Meanwhile, we know humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years, we know ancient humans built structures to last through time, and we know it is possible to accomplish such feats with only human innovation, ingenuity and a lot of time to do it. This suggests it was ancient man that did it. We even have writings from ancient Egypt detailing _how _they did it.
> 
> ...


i would consider the presence of certain genes not found in hominids as my evidence. again not credible by scientific terms but valid to many nonetheless. i look at the presence of certain genes as the answer that our genetics have been "experimented" with. i believe we were implanted the genes necessary for intelligence since they are not simple hydrocarbon based genes. they're not found in any other animal (i realize this may be because we're unique, but not unique enough to randomly come across such complexity in our genetics). 

they are extremely complex and i chose to believe that they are not created by chance (i choose to believe the same for dna). we are just cracking the function of human genes (not to mention the other 95%+ of the dna found in our nucleus). anyways in the future we will see more developement in the human genome. keep in mind we only proved the existance of dna in the 1950s (while information about it can be found as early as 10 000 years ago). with respect to age, genetic research is a new born baby with the softest tush imaginable. it will literally be the most solid and uncontroversial aspect to finding out about our past. our genetics tell a story, i can't wait to find out how it began. 

just a side note: i find it interesting that the earliest known civilization believed that not only did aliens exist, they were essentially created by them. many tell similar stories as well about creation of mankind and how it "unfolded". i think in attempt to try and justify our intelligence as leaders on the surface of this planet we find that we must often criticize a lack of information. there's nothing wrong with that because it has pushed us forward in some cases. chances are it will not however. the method of criticism claiming there is a lack of sufficient evidence is based upon disproving a currently circulating hypothesis, in which case any success means we must disregard the information while the method does not offer a replacement. ultimately we find ourselves one step backward. don't get me wrong, a certain level is necessary to ensure we end up with the correct information but it's important to allow a certain amount of information to circulate in order to justly criticize what is right and wrong, not criticize because science can't prove something yet. 

i want to add one last thing and tie two of my points together. i said that the first recorded reference to DNA can go back as far as 10,000 years (the sumerian civilization and the anunnaki). we discovered genes approximately 11,950 years later so by using the "lack of evidence theory" and simply dismissing the idea of genes because we cannot prove it then ultimately we would have been blocking it from being explored whereas we could have been working all those years to prove its existence.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You do not know that those feats are possible with basic human innovation. Are you referring to that old guy moving that rock on the discovery channel? Please, that doesnt even explain how Coral Castle was made, never mind the pyramids or any other massive ancient structures. Also, the perfect sculpting of giant granite blocks at Puma Punku was supposed to of been done with copper tools and chicken bones? The best stone masons of the world are baffled by this and wouldnt even bother attempting it with their technology. One of the only descriptions of moving these stones was done by Incas of a later generation. They tried to achieve what their predecessors have but they couldnt even drag one stone over a span of years with 20000 people. Do you honestly see only the slimmest chance if it being done by advanced knowledge? (btw, I do believe in the alien part, but I dont think they were much more intelligent than humans at the time, because we are a species with amnesia).
> 
> Yeah they should of just hired look-a-like actors for different races. It was a tough challenge though, the author did say the book was unfilmable.


i love seeing ancient civilizations that could make smoother and more precise dimensions and surfaces in stone then we can today  (if not smoother then at least at the same level, which we have proved impossible for us to replicate without power tools). supposedly they had sticks and stones to help them? not to mention the certain amound of rocks lifted that are so massive and heavy it is not possible to fit anywhere near enough hands under them (based on the highest strength output of a human) to actually be able to lift them.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You do not know that those feats are possible with basic human innovation. Are you referring to that old guy moving that rock on the discovery channel? Please, that doesnt even explain how Coral Castle was made, never mind the pyramids or any other massive ancient structures. Also, the perfect sculpting of giant granite blocks at Puma Punku was supposed to of been done with copper tools and chicken bones? *The best stone masons of the world are baffled by this and wouldnt even bother attempting it with their technology. One of the only descriptions of moving these stones was done by Incas of a later generation. They tried to achieve what their predecessors have but they couldnt even drag one stone over a span of years with 20000 people.* Do you honestly see only the slimmest chance if it being done by advanced knowledge? (btw, I do believe in the alien part, but I dont think they were much more intelligent than humans at the time, because we are a species with amnesia).
> 
> Yeah they should of just hired look-a-like actors for different races. It was a tough challenge though, the author did say the book was unfilmable.





ganja man23 said:


> i would consider* the presence of certain genes not found in hominids *as my evidence. again not credible by scientific terms but valid to many nonetheless. i look at the presence of certain genes as the answer that our genetics have been "experimented" with. i believe we were implanted the *genes necessary for intelligence since they are not simple hydrocarbon based genes. they're not found in any other animal* (i realize this may be because we're unique, but not unique enough to randomly come across such complexity in our genetics).
> 
> they are extremely complex and i chose to believe that they are not created by chance (i choose to believe the same for dna). we are just cracking the function of human genes (not to mention the other 95%+ of the dna found in our nucleus). anyways in the future we will see more developement in the human genome. keep in mind we only proved the existance of dna in the 1950s *(while information about it can be found as early as 10 000 years ago)*. with respect to age, genetic research is a new born baby with the softest tush imaginable. it will literally be the most solid and uncontroversial aspect to finding out about our past. our genetics tell a story, i can't wait to find out how it began.
> 
> ...


Interesting. Please provide links to the bolded text above from credible sources so that I may learn more, gentlemen...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 27, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> i love seeing ancient civilizations that could make smoother and more precise dimensions and surfaces in stone then we can today  (if not smoother then at least at the same level, which we have proved impossible for us to replicate without power tools). supposedly they had sticks and stones to help them? not to mention the certain amound of rocks lifted that are so massive and heavy it is not possible to fit anywhere near enough hands under them (based on the highest strength output of a human) to actually be able to lift them.


Exactly. I dont know what evidence Pad is talking about other than that old guy on the discovery channel and that egyptian drawing of a HANDFUL of people dragging a massive stone. He also refuses to acknowledge that the builders said that they had special help.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 27, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Interesting. Please provide links to the bolded text above from credible sources so that I may learn more, gentlemen...


The first one is on an episode of Ancient Aliens that features one of the best stone masons in the world. Im too lazy to find the second. I read it in "Fingerprints of the Gods" and its based off of a translation done by a 17th century (I think) spanish researcher.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You do not know that those feats are possible with basic human innovation. Are you referring to that old guy moving that rock on the discovery channel? Please, that doesnt even explain how Coral Castle was made, never mind the pyramids or any other massive ancient structures. Also, the perfect sculpting of giant granite blocks at Puma Punku was supposed to of been done with copper tools and chicken bones? The best stone masons of the world are baffled by this and wouldnt even bother attempting it with their technology. One of the only descriptions of moving these stones was done by Incas of a later generation. They tried to achieve what their predecessors have but they couldnt even drag one stone over a span of years with 20000 people. Do you honestly see only the slimmest chance if it being done by advanced knowledge? (btw, I do believe in the alien part, but I dont think they were much more intelligent than humans at the time, because we are a species with amnesia).
> 
> Yeah they should of just hired look-a-like actors for different races. It was a tough challenge though, the author did say the book was unfilmable.


I do not know anything for sure, I can only use the available evidence to shape my understanding. As I said before, the absence of evidence is not evidence. You are listing things that you believe ancient humans could not have accomplished, not what ancient aliens _did _accomplish. That is the problem, there is nothing suggesting external forces were at work except the absence of knowledge of how ancient humans did it. You must understand this distinction. As I asked earlier, what is to determine that ancient aliens were responsible for the creation of world wonders and not some earlier unknown species of Earthbound organisms? Where is the evidence? 



ganja man23 said:


> i would consider the presence of certain genes not found in hominids as my evidence. again not credible by scientific terms but valid to many nonetheless. i look at the presence of certain genes as the answer that our genetics have been "experimented" with. i believe we were implanted the genes necessary for intelligence since they are not simple hydrocarbon based genes. they're not found in any other animal (i realize this may be because we're unique, but not unique enough to randomly come across such complexity in our genetics).


Which genes are you talking about, specifically, and what makes you think they couldn't have evolved naturally?



ganja man23 said:


> they are extremely complex and i chose to believe that they are not created by chance (i choose to believe the same for dna). we are just cracking the function of human genes (not to mention the other 95%+ of the dna found in our nucleus). anyways in the future we will see more developement in the human genome. keep in mind we only proved the existance of dna in the 1950s (while information about it can be found as early as 10 000 years ago). with respect to age, genetic research is a new born baby with the softest tush imaginable. it will literally be the most solid and uncontroversial aspect to finding out about our past. our genetics tell a story, i can't wait to find out how it began.


Over 50 years of collective evidence suggesting it evolved naturally as well, from an earlier form of RNA.



ganja man23 said:


> just a side note: i find it interesting that the earliest known civilization believed that not only did aliens exist, they were essentially created by them. many tell similar stories as well about creation of mankind and how it "unfolded". i think in attempt to try and justify our intelligence as leaders on the surface of this planet we find that we must often criticize a lack of information. there's nothing wrong with that because it has pushed us forward in some cases. chances are it will not however. the method of criticism claiming there is a lack of sufficient evidence is based upon disproving a currently circulating hypothesis, in which case any success means we must disregard the information while the method does not offer a replacement. ultimately we find ourselves one step backward. don't get me wrong, a certain level is necessary to ensure we end up with the correct information but it's important to allow a certain amount of information to circulate in order to justly criticize what is right and wrong, not criticize because science can't prove something yet.


If science cannot prove it, why is it useful to us?



ganja man23 said:


> i want to add one last thing and tie two of my points together. i said that the first recorded reference to DNA can go back as far as 10,000 years (the sumerian civilization and the anunnaki). we discovered genes approximately 11,950 years later so by using the "lack of evidence theory" and simply dismissing the idea of genes because we cannot prove it then ultimately we would have been blocking it from being explored whereas we could have been working all those years to prove its existence.


Information is useless unless we can prove it's validity. 10,000 years ago, we did not have the capability to prove such things. Information without validity is best guess, best guess is irrelevant in science.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Exactly. I dont know what evidence Pad is talking about other than that old guy on the discovery channel and that egyptian drawing of a HANDFUL of people dragging a massive stone. He also refuses to acknowledge that the builders said that they had special help.


This Michigan dude has no problem moving and lifting HUGE stone blocks all by himself with the tech they had back then. Check it out - 

[video=youtube;pCvx5gSnfW4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCvx5gSnfW4[/video]

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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 27, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> This Michigan dude has no problem moving and lifting HUGE stone blocks all by himself with the tech they had back then. Check it out -
> 
> [video=youtube;pCvx5gSnfW4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCvx5gSnfW4[/video]


Thats exactly the guy I am talking about, and that doesnt even explain how Coral Castle was made.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Thats exactly the guy I am talking about, and that doesnt even explain how Coral Castle was made.


Why not?  ......


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## tyler.durden (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You do not know that those feats are possible with basic human innovation. Are you referring to that old guy moving that rock on the discovery channel? Please, that doesnt even explain how Coral Castle was made, never mind the pyramids or any other massive ancient structures. Also, the perfect sculpting of giant granite blocks at Puma Punku was supposed to of been done with copper tools and chicken bones? *The best stone masons of the world are baffled by this and wouldnt even bother attempting it with their technology. *One of the only descriptions of moving these stones was done by Incas of a later generation. They tried to achieve what their predecessors have but they couldnt even drag one stone over a span of years with 20000 people. Do you honestly see only the slimmest chance if it being done by advanced knowledge? (btw, I do believe in the alien part, but I dont think they were much more intelligent than humans at the time, because we are a species with amnesia).





Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> *The first one is on an episode of Ancient Aliens that features one of the best stone masons in the world.* Im too lazy to find the second. I read it in "Fingerprints of the Gods" and its based off of a translation done by a 17th century (I think) spanish researcher.


So, the 'best stone masons in the world' turns into one dude on the non-factual show Ancient Aliens? Glad I pressed for clarification. And still no link provided...


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## ganja man23 (Oct 27, 2012)

I do not know anything for sure, I can only use the available evidence to shape my understanding. As I said before, the absence of evidence is not evidence. You are listing things that you believe ancient humans could not have accomplished, not what ancient aliens _did _accomplish. That is the problem, there is nothing suggesting external forces were at work except the absence of knowledge of how ancient humans did it. You must understand this distinction. As I asked earlier, what is to determine that ancient aliens were responsible for the creation of world wonders and not some earlier unknown species of Earthbound organisms? Where is the evidence? 

*I think the quote is "absence of evidence is not evidence of an absense". as far as evidence, watch ancient aliens... it'll prove "beyond a shaaaadow of a doubt that the answer is......extraterrestrials"
*
 


Which genes are you talking about, specifically, and what makes you think they couldn't have evolved naturally?
*
The gene responsible for human speech was the first that came to mind. *



Over 50 years of collective evidence suggesting it evolved naturally as well, from an earlier form of RNA.
"suggesting" therefore not proved (it feels great to finally use that statement )

If science cannot prove it, why is it useful to us?
*
You missed my point. My point is just because science hasn't proved it, doesn't take it out of the equation. *

Information is useless unless we can prove it's validity. 10,000 years ago, we did not have the capability to prove such things. Information without validity 

is best guess, best guess is irrelevant in science.
*
How exactly can you measure our scale of advancement as a species? Based on how much we have evolved in the past? For all we know we may only be living up to 5% of our intelligence potential at this very moment which is limiting us in terms of our accomplishments and findings.*


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 27, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> So, the 'best stone masons in the world' turns into one dude on the non-factual show Ancient Aliens? Glad I pressed for clarification. And still no link provided...


lol Now you are just getting desperate, here ya go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T965kq4diwE


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 27, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> *I think the quote is "absence of evidence is not evidence of an absense". as far as evidence, watch ancient aliens... it'll prove "beyond a shaaaadow of a doubt that the answer is......extraterrestrials"
> *
> View attachment 2387997


It clearly does not. I've seen ancient aliens, and what I concluded from that was they only have speculation and questions, absolutely no proof of anything. I was completely disappointed and discouraged from any further History Channel programs. That one show alone informed me the people at the History Channel are not interested in actual history, only ratings. 

[youtube]j9w-i5oZqaQ[/youtube]



ganja man23 said:


> *The gene responsible for human speech was the first that came to mind.*


Have you researched human speech yourself? My understanding is it developed somewhere between 25,000-40,000 years ago, near northern Africa, southern Europe. 



ganja man23 said:


> "suggesting" therefore not proved (it feels great to finally use that statement )


Can you name anything in existence that is 100% "proven"?



ganja man23 said:


> *You missed my point. My point is just because science hasn't proved it, doesn't take it out of the equation.*


Yes it does. If it is not proven via science it is unreasonable to believe. What is the value in believing in something not proven to be true? Why not believe in fairies and dragons and Santa Clause?



ganja man23 said:


> *How exactly can you measure our scale of advancement as a species? Based on how much we have evolved in the past? For all we know we may only be living up to 5% of our intelligence potential at this very moment which is limiting us in terms of our accomplishments and findings.*


History.

Where is the evidence to suggest we're only living up to 5% of our intelligence?


----------



## ganja man23 (Oct 27, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> This Michigan dude has no problem moving and lifting HUGE stone blocks all by himself with the tech they had back then. Check it out -
> 
> [video=youtube;pCvx5gSnfW4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCvx5gSnfW4[/video]
> 
> ...


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
this explains how the blocks can be moved in a certain direction altough im not sure anyone is going to push all these stones for hundreds of miles when their technology is that primitive it seems almost irrelevant to do such a thing. even though they do somehow ( i question that they would unless the technology that was available to them was advanced enough to not make them go out of their way by dragging stones to the middle of no where. By the way stone henge lies on the focus of an energy grid. you should go meditate there, you might comprehend something you don't want to. so how exactly is it that they are able to life these stones and place them on top of each other perpendicularly? maybe i missed it but it doesn't explain how they placed the tops on.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 27, 2012)

It clearly does not. I've seen ancient aliens, and what I concluded from that was they only have speculation and questions, absolutely no proof of anything. I was completely disappointed and discouraged from any further History Channel programs. That one show alone informed me the people at the History Channel are not interested in actual history, only ratings. 

Depends on what you consider proof. Most will want proof as in meeting an alien face to face. This is the only proof some will accept and this won't happen until at least after the 21st of december for many of us. don't worry about that because it's not relevant to you. forget i even said it 

Have you researched human speech yourself? My understanding is it developed somewhere between 25,000-40,000 years ago, near northern Africa, southern Europe. 

You can't prove that unless you go back 25-40,000 years ago.

Can you name anything in existence that is 100% "proven"?

Exactly my point, everything is an illusion. even the word proof. proof is derived from the human mind seeking validation when in reality we existe within the complexity of infinity. we don't need to prove anything, the answers are all within.

Yes it does. If it is not proven via science it is unreasonable to believe. What is the value in believing in something not proven to be true? Why not believe in fairies and dragons and Santa Clause?

Again you forgot my initial point. As it turned out the belief in genetics turned out to be a fair assumption didn't it?


History.

Where is the evidence to suggest we're only living up to 5% of our intelligence? 

I didn't say we are living up to 5% i merely said for all we know. that doesn't mean i find any validity in that statement or the number, we are nothing but masters of limitation. consciousness is forever expanding so have fun and enjoy. i think this is the lesson you try to preach as well no?


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 27, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> Depends on what you consider proof. Most will want proof as in meeting an alien face to face. This is the only proof some will accept and this won't happen until at least after the 21st of december for many of us. don't worry about that because it's not relevant to you. forget i even said it


Trust me, nothing will happen on Dec. 21st. Life will remain the same on Dec. 22nd.

Proof is objective, proof is true regardless if you or I believe it.



ganja man23 said:


> You can't prove that unless you go back 25-40,000 years ago.


There is strong evidence to suggest it. Again, "proof", in absolute, does not exist.



ganja man23 said:


> Exactly my point, everything is an illusion. even the word proof. proof is derived from the human mind seeking validation when in reality we existe within the complexity of infinity. we don't need to prove anything, the answers are all within.


That is why we've developed the scientific method, to enable us to derive the truth regardless of personal opinion or anecdotal evidence. 

The truth of reality is not within, it's something that needs to be learned, studied, accepted. Otherwise we're subject to our emotions. Our emotions tell us what we _want_ to hear, not what we _need_ to.



ganja man23 said:


> Again you forgot my initial point. As it turned out the belief in genetics turned out to be a fair assumption didn't it?


I'm not familiar with the belief you're referring to, citation?

Regardless, if the ancients said rain water provides sustenance for crops, would you proclaim they had advanced knowledge about current meteorology? Had they said "more color would be better", would you proclaim them advanced art geniuses, the likes of which wouldn't be seen until DaVinci? 



ganja man23 said:


> I didn't say we are living up to 5% i merely said for all we know. that doesn't mean i find any validity in that statement or the number, we are nothing but masters of limitation. consciousness is forever expanding so have fun and enjoy. i think this is the lesson you try to preach as well no?


"For all we know", we do know. MRI's have well established the "we only use 10% of our brain" myth is BS. We use 100% of our brain.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 27, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> *I think the quote is "absence of evidence is not evidence of an absense". as far as evidence, watch ancient aliens... it'll prove "beyond a shaaaadow of a doubt that the answer is......extraterrestrials"*


You're joking of course. Have to make sure as The Chief actually cites the show as a credible source of information...



> Which genes are you talking about, specifically, and what makes you think they couldn't have evolved naturally?
> *
> The gene responsible for human speech was the first that came to mind. *


Are you referring to Forkhead Box Protein P2? If so, that gene is found in many mammal species - 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOXP2

If you scroll down to the evolution section, you can see our version of the gene is only different by two amino acids from the FOX P2 in chimps, and only by several down the line to mice. It is easy to see the slow mutation of this gene up through lesser mammals to the higher primates, including us. No alien intervention explanation necessary...




> How exactly can you measure our scale of advancement as a species? Based on how much we have evolved in the past? * For all we know we may only be living up to 5% of our intelligence potential at this very moment* which is limiting us in terms of our accomplishments and findings.


What is your source on the bolded text?


----------



## ganja man23 (Oct 27, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Trust me, nothing will happen on Dec. 21st. Life will remain the same on Dec. 22nd.
> 
> Nothing will happen on december 21st? are you implying that our world is going to end or something. of course something is going to happen. the answer as to what is based on your own reality. If you believe in a doomsday then why not create that scenario for yourself and have fun? i'm too high for such low ideas. i see the 21st as the threshold when the energy on our planet tips the scale becoming from collectively negative to slightly more positive. Do you really think the 22nd is not a different reality. We shift from dimension to dimension countless times every second and your sheer lack of knowledge as to what will happen in the future is immaculate seeing as how it has not happened. the future has not been created yet.
> 
> ...


----------



## ganja man23 (Oct 27, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> You're joking of course. Have to make sure as The Chief actually cites the show as a credible source of information...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


no i'm no referring to that gene. in all honesty i just searched it and the function is different then the one i described. the one i mentioned has not been found anywhere but in human genes. 

i bolded by accident but i believe i was trying to differentiate my text from his initially. as you can see it says "for all we know" and "we may be". you're smarter than this tyler, hang in there buddy. the source for this was my rectum, i reached in there and pulled it out as a wonderfully appropriate example. you like!?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> lol Now you are just getting desperate, here ya go.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T965kq4diwE


*Cough* o.o


----------



## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> *Cough* o.o


Every claim made about Puma Punku is addressed in the video Pad posted, at the beginning even.

_"Contrary to Ancient Aliens&#8217; claims that archaeologists are baffled by Pumapunku, Archaeologists know the basics about how Pumapunku&#8217;s stones were cut and shaped. This is partly because there is evidence for this all over the site itself."

"The sandstone and andesite stones at Pumapunku would have been easily worked with the most basic stone working tools, the idea that diamond tipped power saws were needed is ridiculous. The red sandstone was relatively soft and easy to work with, and even though andesite is pretty hard, because of the way it cooled it could be easily flaked off using stones as soft as 5.5 on the Mohs scale. Such pounding stones were found all over andesite quarries in the area."

"Some stones at Pumapunku that Ancient Aliens would never show the cameras are the ones that were in the middle of this process. They show that at the same time a stone was being pounded by stone hammers, which created these troth like depressions, the grinding and polishing was taking place on the other end of the stone. Unfinished stones like this one clearly show how they were shaped "

"Many stones have grooves several centimeters in width and depth on two adjacent faces for holding ropes. They even had special places cut into the stones that Pumapunku scholars call &#8220;hoisting grips.&#8221; These are all very strange things to do if they could simply levitate these blocks."_

and so on and so on....


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 27, 2012)

And we are supposed to believe archaeologists over modern master stone masons? Riigghht


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief, can you show me hard evidence, irrefutable evidence that proves ancient humans were not responsible for these structures creation?

Can you answer my question I asked earlier; how do you know it was aliens and not some other undiscovered species on Earth?


----------



## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 27, 2012)

I told you over and over and OVER again. But I keep getting the same response like you are convinced its the better argument. Which is we have no idea how this can possibly be done with simple tools and know-how, yet we must favor the simple explanation. You sited an old man elevating a stone painfully slowly which does not even explain Coral Castle, not even close. You sited one ancient drawing of a HANDFUL of people dragging a massive stone, and even that is ridiculous because thats physically impossible, and you ignore all the other magical explanations the ancients left. 

You like that alien card dont you? I believe in aliens, but they were not much more advanced than humans at the time, they just helped us... I suggest you do more than a skim through study of Coral Castle and see how that dude on the discovery channel, or anyone else for that matter, could never replicate what this 100 pound man has accomplished.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> And we are supposed to believe archaeologists over modern master stone masons? Riigghht


Believe what you want. I am offering a different view.


----------



## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 27, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> Believe what you want. I am offering a different view.


From people that are out of their area of expertise, at least compared to a stone mason.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I told you over and over and OVER again. But I keep getting the same response like you are convinced its the better argument. Which is we have no idea how this can possibly be done with simple tools and know-how, yet we must favor the simple explanation. You sited an old man elevating a stone painfully slowly which does not even explain Coral Castle, not even close. You sited one ancient drawing of a HANDFUL of people dragging a massive stone, and even that is ridiculous because thats physically impossible, and you ignore all the other magical explanations the ancients left.
> 
> You like that alien card dont you? I believe in aliens, but they were not much more advanced than humans at the time, they just helped us... I suggest you do more than a skim through study of Coral Castle and see how that dude on the discovery channel, or anyone else for that matter, could never replicate what this 100 pound man has accomplished.


"we don't know, so aliens" is not proof. Do you understand that? That is all you are saying. How do you go from "we don't know" to "aliens"? Where is the connection to link the two together? 

We have detailed accounts of how Egyptians moved the blocks, they weren't simply dragged by a "handful" of people. It took Thousands of people DECADES to create the pyramids. They used trees under the blocks to roll them and sophisticated mathematics in their design, none of which wasn't available at the time of their creation. 

I believe in aliens, too. But you have to understand the size of the universe. Unless they're in our own solar system, it would be next to impossible for them to visit the Earth. I believe if the were in our solar system, we would know that at this point.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 27, 2012)

*sigh*... I know Pad, I know...


----------



## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2012)

[video=youtube;-K7q20VzwVs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K7q20VzwVs[/video]


"Much is often made of the vast size and weight of the Pumapunku stones, with paranormal web sites routinely listing them as up to 440 tons. Pumapunku does indeed contain the largest single stone found at any of the Tiwanaku sites, and it's part of its Plataforma Lítica, or stone platform. The accepted estimate of this piece of red sandstone's weight is 131 metric tons, equal to 144 US tons. The second largest block is only 85 metric tons, and the rest go down sharply from there. The vast majority of the building material at Pumapunku consists of relatively small and easily handled stones, although many of the most famous are megalithic. The absurd numbers like 440 tons come from much earlier estimates, and have long since been corrected."

" All around the world are examples of stonemasonry from the period that is equally impressive. The Greek Parthenon, for example, was built a thousand years before Pumapunku, and yet nobody invokes aliens as the only explanation for its great beauty and decorative detailing that more than rivals Pumapunku's angles and cuts. At about the same time, the Persians constructed Persepolis with its superlative Palace of Darius, featuring details that are highly comparable to Pumapunku. Stonemasons in India cut the Udayagiri Caves with megalithic doorways that are very similar to those in Pumapunku. The Tiwanaku did magnificent work, but by no means was it inexplicably superior to what can be found throughout the ancient world.


----------



## Red1966 (Oct 27, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> "we don't know, so aliens" is not proof. Do you understand that? That is all you are saying. How do you go from "we don't know" to "aliens"? Where is the connection to link the two together?
> 
> We have detailed accounts of how Egyptians moved the blocks, they weren't simply dragged by a "handful" of people. It took Thousands of people DECADES to create the pyramids. They used trees under the blocks to roll them and sophisticated mathematics in their design, none of which wasn't available at the time of their creation.
> 
> I believe in aliens, too. But you have to understand the size of the universe. Unless they're in our own solar system, it would be next to impossible for them to visit the Earth. I believe if the were in our solar system, we would know that at this point.


*Why are you wearing your mother's panties on your head? *


----------



## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2012)

"We don't know whether Ed Leedskalnin used the same techniques as Wally Wallington, but we clearly have to acknowledge that there are ways to do it without machinery. When asked how he built his castle, Ed would answer "It's not difficult if you know how," and according to Coral Castle's web site, he said he was able to move the heavy blocks because he "understood the laws of weight and leverage well." Sounds to me like he figured things out the same way Wallington did."

"There are photographs of Ed at work on his castle, lifting his blocks with a large tripod made of telephone poles perhaps 25 feet tall, using chains and a block and tackle system. When he once disassembled and relocated Rock Gate Park a few miles from Florida City to Homestead to escape an encroaching subdivision, the blocks were moved on a flatbed trailer towed behind a rented tractor. But his use of tripod cranes and tractors don't seem to fit in very well with the magnetic energy vortex theories, and so you won't find references to these pictures on most Coral Castle web sites."

"Using a block and tackle in this manner is called mechanical advantage, and it's what allowed Archimedes to once lift an entire warship full of men using only a block and tackle and his own strength."

"Before Ed moved from Latvia at age 26, he grew up in a family of stone masons. Very little is known about what type of stone mason work he did in Latvia, but it probably explains his interest and knowledge of quarrying, cutting, and carving stone. He then lived in Canada and worked as a lumberjack, work which is largely about moving felled trees. A tree the weight of Ed's largest coral block, 30 tons, is not at all uncommon &#8212; some trees can weigh hundreds of tons. Before Ed ever started work on Coral Castle, he had a wealth of work experience that gave him all the knowledge he'd ever need to build his creation. It's simply not necessary to invoke made-up mystical powers, aliens, or magnetic vortex energy to explain Coral Castle."


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## UncleBuck (Oct 27, 2012)

Red1966 said:


> *Why are you wearing your mother's panties on your head? *


why are you posting on stormfront (a white supremacist website), threatening to snitch people to the federal government, and making pedophiliac statements?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 27, 2012)

^lolwut???


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 27, 2012)

Red1966 said:


> *Why are you wearing your mother's panties on your head? *


I told you you're not worth any more of my time, that's what I meant. Stop following me around like a puppy on a leash.


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## UncleBuck (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> ^lolwut???


red1966 is bitter about getting his ass handed to him by pad in another thread, so he came over here to babble some nonsense.

i followed him to remind everyone that red1966 is a stormfront member (google red1966 + stormfront), and you can see in my sig that he is a confirmed snitch who seems like a pedophile.

please quote this post so he can see it, he tries to ignore my posts.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 27, 2012)

ah its a beef, I understand now.


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## cannabineer (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> ah its a beef, I understand now.


Now in convenient, family-fun-filled Butthurt Size. cn


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 27, 2012)

UncleBuck said:


> red1966 is bitter about getting his ass handed to him by pad in another thread, so he came over here to babble some nonsense.
> 
> i followed him to remind everyone that red1966 is a stormfront member (google red1966 + stormfront), and you can see in my sig that he is a confirmed snitch who seems like a pedophile.
> 
> please quote this post so he can see it, he tries to ignore my posts.


Quoted for truth.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 27, 2012)

Red1966 said:


> Quoted for being the same idiot. Yeah, google that, find the claim he made, find the membership he made in my name with join date two months AFTER his first claim. Why is he posting using three different names? So he can rep himself? If my "ass was handed to me", why did HE run away? ChesusRice, UncleBuck,Padawanbater2, all the same unemployed, bedwetting, pants shitting layabout supported by his poor wife, while he spends the whole day pretending he has some effect on the world.


I left your circlejerk thread because I'm not stupid enough to meet the entry requirements.

Now go tell the feds on me.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2012)

Red1966 said:


> *Why are you wearing your mother's panties on your head? *


please do not carry personal fights over to this sub-forum.


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## UncleBuck (Oct 27, 2012)

red seems bitter and angry.

poor gal.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 27, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> please do not carry personal fights over to this sub-forum.


This subforum is a shit show anyways lol


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## fitzgib (Oct 27, 2012)

pyramids!! u put thousands of slaves under the whip and they'll build what ever the fuck u tell em too. America is a recent example x


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## mindphuk (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> we have no idea how this can possibly be done with simple tools and know-how


We have many ideas how the pyramids were built. The evidence is all over, including the quarries where they got the stone, the graffiti that could have only been left by the workers, papyrus that teaches math skills that a pyramid architect would use, the name of the Egyptian kings for who the pyramids were built engraved inside, excavated grave sites of workers, including some that have injuries consistent with being a stone worker, copper tools that were used to quarry and form the blocks, sites of failed pyramids experiments demonstrating a clearly evolving and improving knowledge base, and on and on. 

A claim that the pyramids could not have been built by ancient Egyptians is one that needs support and evidence. So far, the only thing you have ever presented is circular arguments from authority. Someone that you believe has authoritative knowledge says that they couldn't have been built, and you repeat this claim as if it were fact. Not good enough. When evidence showing that the pyramids actually could have been built using ancient tech, you shift the goalposts, "well what about Puma Punku?" Everyone is on to your game. You dismiss the arguments of actual Egyptologists while preferentially choosing to cite people that have made a living out of promoting New Age pseudoscience. 

No one has a problem saying that we don't know how they could have accomplished x,y and z, but it does not follow that you can then claim that they could not have done x, y and z. Your logic is flawed and belies your entire thought process. Magic seems to be the best answer for everything you find unexplained yet cannot provide any reasons that a rational person should accept your magical way of thinking. 



> Once I was actually asked in all seriousness for my professional opinion on whether alien build the pyramids. The man said: Theres so much discussion of the alien theory that there must be something to it, right?. Well, my short answer would be, No. There isnt anything to it at all. My longer answer will follow, with a thorough dissection of the central arguments of the alien theory and why they are wrong. I think the main reason the theory is so popular is that people like to believe in things, things that are much bigger than themselves, whether its god or aliens. But often people also want proof and they seek to find it in the pyramids and other ancient monuments. Its no wonder that the pyramids are incredible enough that they inspire people to believe the unbelievable. I myself dont think theres anything wrong with postulating that there might be other life out there in the universe, but I also dont believe in robbing humanity of pride in its achievements.
> I think its rather more inspiring to think that human beings, our own ancestors, created such spectacular monumental achievements. However, some people see the concept of civilization as progressive, that humans only continue to improve upon the past, so they think that just because we are uncertain about how the pyramids were built and we ourselves would struggle to replicate their achievement, it is impossible that humans of the past could have done it.
> They say that since the pyramids of Giza were built about 4500 years ago, people back then couldnt have been skilled enough to do it. However, were ignoring that numerous remarkable developments were happening all those millennia ago. There are many things that were discovered in the distant past that still serve us today. The Egyptians made many brilliant innovations (something I will have to write more about in another post)simple things that we still use today, which have barely changed over the millennia since they first conceived, from the earliest forms of paper and ink, to the 24 hour day.
> People say that since we wouldnt be able to build pyramids today, that the Egyptians couldnt have done it, but its not just building of the pyramids that couldnt be replicated today. Its hard to imagine ever being able to pull together the resources, power, money, skilled craftsmen, and architects needed to build one of the great gothic cathedrals in this day and age. It just couldnt happen. This isnt something to be ashamed of though, we simply use different technologies and have different priorities these days. While we couldnt build another Notre Dame Cathedral or Great Pyramid, modern structures like the Eiffel Tower or the Gherkin wouldnt have been possible back then either. Pyramids _were_ possible simply because the entire economy, resources, and population of the Egyptian civilization was under the control of a single omnipotent ruler, who could mobilize them all into a monumental building project.


And the rest of the article, he goes on to provide the evidence for his claim http://www.eloquentpeasant.com/2007/08/24/why-the-aliens-did-not-build-the-pyramids/


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## Red1966 (Oct 27, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> please do not carry personal fights over to this sub-forum.


I apologize to you, sir. And I will honor your request, since you asked so nicely.


----------



## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> "we don't know, so aliens" is not proof. Do you understand that? That is all you are saying. How do you go from "we don't know" to "aliens"? Where is the connection to link the two together?
> 
> We have detailed accounts of how Egyptians moved the blocks, they weren't simply dragged by a "handful" of people. It took Thousands of people DECADES to create the pyramids. They used trees under the blocks to roll them and sophisticated mathematics in their design, none of which wasn't available at the time of their creation.





Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> *sigh*... I know Pad, I know...


So you know that
1) saying I can't understand this, therefore aliens,= bad logic. Good enough for you maybe, but you can't hold us to your standard. 
2) Plausible explanations exist involving our ancestors and ingenuity. 

None of us are saying humans did it, we are saying it's very likely and possible humans did it, and we have no reason to suspect otherwise, because as #1 points out, saying you can't understand it does not indicate aliens. This isn't good enough for you? You need for us to agree with your alien theory? We have problems with the alien theory and we vocalize them. You then get inexplicably mad and accuse us of intellectual superiority. How intellectually superior does a person have to be to say 'I don't know" or "aliens doesn't make sense". You have to accuse us of being uncomfortable with the idea, and opposing you only because we like to rep each other. It never occurs to you that we criticize because it's warranted? For some reason, you have to invent boogiemen...


----------



## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 27, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> So you know that
> 1) saying I can't understand this, therefore aliens,= bad logic. Good enough for you maybe, but you can't hold us to your standard.
> 2) Plausible explanations exist involving our ancestors and ingenuity.
> 
> None of us are saying humans did it, we are saying it's very likely and possible humans did it, and we have no reason to suspect otherwise, because as #1 points out, saying you can't understand it does not indicate aliens. This isn't good enough for you? You need for us to agree with your alien theory? We have problems with the alien theory and we vocalize them. You then get inexplicably mad and accuse us of intellectual superiority. How intellectually superior does a person have to be to say 'I don't know" or "aliens doesn't make sense". You have to accuse us of being uncomfortable with the idea, and opposing you only because we like to rep each other. It never occurs to you that we criticize because it's warranted? For some reason, you have to invent boogiemen...


I like soup.


----------



## tyler.durden (Oct 28, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> lol Now you are just getting desperate, here ya go.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T965kq4diwE


Yeah, you throw an Ancient Alien YT video my way (which is the epitome of bullshit) when I asked for a _credible_ source and I'm the one who's desperate. You fascinate me...


----------



## guy incognito (Oct 31, 2012)

With millions of slaves, and thousands of years, how could an ancient civilization ever create a large pile of rocks? They can't, it's clearly aliens. 

My head is going to explode with how stupid some people are.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 31, 2012)

guy incognito said:


> With millions of slaves, and thousands of years, how could an ancient civilization ever create a large pile of rocks? They can't, it's clearly aliens.
> 
> My head is going to explode with how stupid some people are.


At least there's some activity going on in their heads. They're asking questions. Thinking! If you understood how complex the pyramids truly were in their design you would question how such primitive people built such advanced structures with so many different properties. Did you know there has been traces of acidic and basic compounds found in two tunnels leading into one chamber. This suggests they were essentially a giant power plant due to the release of H2 during an acid base reaction between the two compounds.

Did you know the three pyramids were lined up with orion's belt perfectly? Did you know that the other structures around Giza are lined up with the orion constellation as well? Did you know that if you trace back the position of the stars it suggest that the pyramids must have been built over 10,000 years ago? Did you know the egyptians never said they built them, we can merely trace that they once inhabited the land about 5000 year ago? Did you know that the number pi and the golden ratio constant are incorporated in dimension ratios in most if not all chambers and also the outer pyramid? I bet you didn't because most people simply know what they've been taught, whether right or wrong.

My next point: we are trained. We're trained to think bullshit when we hear the word 'alien'. That word is so controversial people almost lose their shit over it as easy as they do about god and jesus. You want my opinion; I don't think it was aliens but I sure as fuck know it wasn't them egyptians.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 31, 2012)

Give it up man. Even if they see most of that being true, minus the age and the power plant part, they still wouldnt be impressed.


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## cannabineer (Oct 31, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> ~snip~
> 
> Did you know the three pyramids were lined up with orion's belt perfectly? Did you know that the other structures around Giza are lined up with the orion constellation as well? Did you know that if you trace back the position of the stars it suggest that the pyramids must have been built over 10,000 years ago? Did you know the egyptians never said they built them, we can merely trace that they once inhabited the land about 5000 year ago? Did you know that the number pi and the golden ratio constant are incorporated in dimension ratios in most if not all chambers and also the outer pyramid? I bet you didn't because most people simply know what they've been taught, whether right or wrong.
> 
> ~snip~


As far as I know, only Graham Hancock believes those things. Others have shown that the supposedly perfect correspondence of the Pyramid's placement ... isn't. 

The Egyptians were superior surveyors and draftsmen. To argue that the following misalignment was mistake or random error doesn't cut it imo.
cn


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## ganja man23 (Oct 31, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> As far as I know, only Graham Hancock believes those things. Others have shown that the supposedly perfect correspondence of the Pyramid's placement ... isn't.
> 
> The Egyptians were superior surveyors and draftsmen. To argue that the following misalignment was mistake or random error doesn't cut it imo.
> cn


Constellations change over time like i mentioned. You can't just measure orion today and line it up with the pyramids because even if they were built only 5000 years ago they still wouldn't line up. Your drawing is also missing the other structures of the giza complex

and this one supposed proof of engineering does not disvalue everything else i said.


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## cannabineer (Oct 31, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> Constellations change over time like i mentioned. You can't just measure orion today and line it up with the pyramids because even if they were built only 5000 years ago they still wouldn't line up. Your drawing is also missing the other structures of the giza complex


They've done the planetarium regression. At no time, even the extremely early times favored by some of the Orionists, did the stars and the pyramids properly align.

As for the rest of the Giza complex, that only makes things worse. The Sphinx, for example, is in the wrong place to denote its obvious inspiration, Leo. 

A hypothesis that relies on cherry-picking facts that fit and discarding those that don't ... has no staying power. Jmo. cn


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## ganja man23 (Oct 31, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Give it up man. Even if they see most of that being true, minus the age and the power plant part, they still wouldnt be impressed.


i digress for now. "my head is going to explode over how stupid some people are". i was being provoked and just couldn't help myself, chief.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 31, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> They've done the planetarium regression. At no time, even the extremely early times favored by some of the Orionists, did the stars and the pyramids properly align.
> 
> As for the rest of the Giza complex, that only makes things worse. The Sphinx, for example, is in the wrong place to denote its obvious inspiration, Leo.
> 
> A hypothesis that relies on cherry-picking facts that fit and discarding those that don't ... has no staying power. Jmo. cn


With concern to your digression method you're dealing with 3 dimensional space in which the planets are not linearly aligned on any plane, they are in different x y and z coordinates. I doubt we have taken into account the different masses of the suns, the planets orbiting them, mass of solar system (including debris), distance relative to each other, etc. It's most likely an estimation of how they are supposed to move. This method doesn't take into account any external forces acting on any of 3 orion belt stars as well. 

I give up anyway. they just had a weird fascination for the number 3.1459 and decided to make that number present throughout the chambers for fun. They made the pyramids to bury their kings and just never ended up doing it for whatever reason.

As for the giza complex and leo, i have yet to research that but i never did claim anything special with the sphinx.


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## cannabineer (Oct 31, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> With concern to your digression method you're dealing with 3 dimensional space in which the planets are not linearly aligned on any plane, they are in different x y and z coordinates. I doubt we have taken into account the different masses of the suns, the planets orbiting them, mass of solar system (including debris), distance relative to each other, etc. It's most likely an estimation of how they are supposed to move. This method doesn't take into account any external forces acting on any of 3 orion belt stars as well.
> 
> I give up anyway. they just had a weird fascination for the number 3.1459 and decided to make that number present throughout the chambers for fun. They made the pyramids to bury their kings and just never ended up doing it for whatever reason.
> 
> As for the giza complex and leo, i have yet to research that but i never did claim anything special with the sphinx.


The third dimension is unlikely to be relevant, as when we look into the sky, we see a plane projection of a 3-D cosmos. The ancients all thought that the stars were applied or attached to a sphere or bowl of sky. The objections to the pyramid/Orion alignment hypthesis stick to the planar, as does the original claim. 

But I have claimed that the alignment was never perfect, and you're tiptoeing around that. If you simply stop participating in (an element of) a discussion, is it reasonable to interpret that as a concession? cn


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## ganja man23 (Oct 31, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> The third dimension is unlikely to be relevant, as when we look into the sky, we see a plane projection of a 3-D cosmos. The ancients all thought that the stars were applied or attached to a sphere or bowl of sky. The objections to the pyramid/Orion alignment hypthesis stick to the planar, as does the original claim.
> 
> But I have claimed that the alignment was never perfect, and you're tiptoeing around that. If you simply stop participating in (an element of) a discussion, is it reasonable to interpret that as a concession? cn


My point is you can only assume a path through a virtual computer since we weren't there 10 000 years ago. The computer only take into account a 2 dimensional image projection to estimate the most likely path whereas we are dealing with 3 dimensional vectors. Tis causes horrible misauracies as you can imagine since the whole concept of adding an extra dimension complicates things infinitely more. 

You're going to forget a third dimension? You can't do that. The solar systems are in different x y and z coordinates and they move in what can be measured in short amount of time as linear projections using a combination of x y and z components. They are also moving in different magnitudes in different x,y,z coordinates as well. I highly doubt the virtual simulator took into account all of those things.

If you're taking someone's word for this then this is highly illogical. Unless you yourself has the mathematical vector knowledge of the distance between these planets, their masses and their individual speed and you can calculate their distance relative to us now and ten thousand years ago, you're not going to convince me anything. scientists aren't like a universal brotherhood of truth seekers, they often choose the data most relevant to the findings they wish to prove.


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## cannabineer (Oct 31, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> My point is you can only assume a path through a virtual computer since we weren't there 10 000 years ago. The computer only take into account a 2 dimensional image projection to estimate the most likely path whereas we are dealing with 3 dimensional vectors. Tis causes horrible misauracies as you can imagine since the whole concept of adding an extra dimension complicates things infinitely more.
> 
> You're going to forget a third dimension? You can't do that. The solar systems are in different x y and z coordinates and they move in what can be measured in short amount of time as linear projections using a combination of x y and z components. They are also moving in different magnitudes in different x,y,z coordinates as well. I highly doubt the virtual simulator took into account all of those things.
> 
> If you're taking someone's word for this then this is highly illogical. Unless you yourself has the mathematical vector knowledge of the distance between these planets, their masses and their individual speed and you can calculate their distance relative to us now and ten thousand years ago, you're not going to convince me anything. scientists aren't like a universal brotherhood of truth seekers, they often choose the data most relevant to the findings they wish to prove.


I can find no purpose to your statement about scientists beyond a good old-fashioned poisoning of the well. The one wonderful, redeeming quality of science is its core attitude of "Prove it." If a scientist does massage the data to push a hypothesis, his work will not last. I invoke Russell: "the tragedy of science: a beautiful theory wrecked by an ugly fact." While this does often get slapped around by ambitious people, it has proven a most remarkably effective correction mechanism once the perspective exceeds a human lifetime. 

I have studied _a lot_ of astronomy, and the plane approximation to stellar motions, esp, for very distant stars like those in the Belt ... over short intervals like a few tens of millennia ... is thoroughly proven. It introduces a trigonometric error so small we would have a tough time measuring it with our astrometric equipment today, and that resolves to better than a hundredth of an arcsecond.
The Egyptians and other pre-Roman astronomers could routinely discern precisions of an arcminute or better. The error in the correlation of Giza with the Belt exceeds that source of observational error by orders of magnitude. 

I am curious: you mention solar systems and planets. Which planets? cn


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## ganja man23 (Oct 31, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> I can find no purpose to your statement about scientists beyond a good old-fashioned poisoning of the well.
> 
> I have studied _a lot_ of astronomy, and the plane approximation to stellar motions, esp, for very distant stars like those in the Belt ... over short intervals like a few tens of millennia ... is thoroughly proven. It introduces a trigonometric error so small we would have a tough time measuring it with our astrometric equipment today, and that resolves to better than a hundredth of an arcsecond.
> The Egyptians and other pre-Roman astronomers could routinely discern precisions of an arcminute or better. The error in the correlation of Giza with the Belt exceeds that source of observational error by orders of magnitude.
> ...


Sol has over 8 planets and countless tonnes of space debris. Surely you don't think those three stars are just 3 individual suns and nothing more? Anyway you have completely disproved me, oh no  

http://thehiddenrecords.com/sphinx.htm

Hey guess what!? I think that link is just as much, if not more evidence than you have shown me

can i have evidence as to this thorough proven experiment? i'd love to learn about the methodology used.


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## cannabineer (Oct 31, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> Sol has over 8 planets and countless tonnes of space debris. Surely you don't think those three stars are just 3 individual suns and nothing more? Anyway you have completely disproved me, oh no
> 
> http://thehiddenrecords.com/sphinx.htm
> 
> Hey guess what!? I think that link is just as much, if not more evidence than you have shown me


You and I both know that our sun has planets, but when was that the topic? As for planets around stars 300+ light-years away, what relevance might they have?
You have consistently ignored the main thrust of my end of this dialogue, and seem to be engaging in a campaign of attrition. 
I do not see you as being forthright. You cannot deny that you are simply disregarding whenever I show you flaws in your proposals. This is not a seeker's attitude, but a priest's. I have little use for priests of any doctrine. 

As for evidence ... misdirection. I have concentrated not on providing evidence, but on finding (and presenting) the flaws in the Orion theory in the hope that you might address them. I see no need to sully the field with evidence of my until we've come to a conclusion regarding yours. You're refusing to play fair. cn


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## ganja man23 (Nov 1, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> You and I both know that our sun has planets, but when was that the topic? As for planets around stars 300+ light-years away, what relevance might they have?
> You have consistently ignored the main thrust of my end of this dialogue, and seem to be engaging in a campaign of attrition.
> I do not see you as being forthright. You cannot deny that you are simply disregarding whenever I show you flaws in your proposals. This is not a seeker's attitude, but a priest's. I have little use for priests of any doctrine.
> 
> As for evidence ... misdirection. I have concentrated not on providing evidence, but on finding (and presenting) the flaws in the Orion theory in the hope that you might address them. I see no need to sully the field with evidence of my until we've come to a conclusion regarding yours. You're refusing to play fair. cn


that's exactly my point, if you're looking to disprove the theory then all articles you will read are automatically bias. you're not understanding me. in order for a fair and ACCURATE measurement of solar systems far away from us we need the following:

mass of our solar system
mass of all 3 solar systems of orion's belt
their coordinates relative to earth
their vector direction (which direction each individual solar system is moving towards)
their vector speed (the rate of distance vs time at which each solar system is moving)
our solar system's magnitude and direction

Find me proof of all these things taken into consideration. I am somewhat familiar with starmapping and basically i can tell you before hand they did nothing of this sort, they merely used a 2 dimensional projection. 

you just blatantly stated your star tracing is accurate and let me tell you it's not. i will discuss 3 dimensional vectors all day but i refuse to reply unless you provide me with evidence of this star tracking being accurate i will tell you now that it's not because we have not been filming the sky long enough to even measure a difference between these three solar systems.

and the relevance between planets is that they add a substantial amount of mass to the solar system. we are just discovering new planets so i highly doubt we took into account the mass of the solar systems, basically we guessed the distance each planet should be based on their size and nothing more.


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## guy incognito (Nov 1, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> that's exactly my point, if you're looking to disprove the theory then all articles you will read are automatically bias. you're not understanding me. in order for a fair and ACCURATE measurement of solar systems far away from us we need the following:
> 
> mass of our solar system
> mass of all 3 solar systems of orion's belt
> ...


No they don't. Close to 100% of the mass of our solar system is concentrated in the sun. The same is true for other solar systems. Planets are dwarfed by their stars.


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## guy incognito (Nov 1, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> At least there's some activity going on in their heads. They're asking questions. Thinking! If you understood how complex the pyramids truly were in their design you would question how such primitive people built such advanced structures with so many different properties. Did you know there has been traces of acidic and basic compounds found in two tunnels leading into one chamber. This suggests they were essentially a giant power plant due to the release of H2 during an acid base reaction between the two compounds.
> 
> Did you know the three pyramids were lined up with orion's belt perfectly? Did you know that the other structures around Giza are lined up with the orion constellation as well? Did you know that if you trace back the position of the stars it suggest that the pyramids must have been built over 10,000 years ago? Did you know the egyptians never said they built them, we can merely trace that they once inhabited the land about 5000 year ago? Did you know that the number pi and the golden ratio constant are incorporated in dimension ratios in most if not all chambers and also the outer pyramid? I bet you didn't because most people simply know what they've been taught, whether right or wrong.
> 
> My next point: we are trained. We're trained to think bullshit when we hear the word 'alien'. That word is so controversial people almost lose their shit over it as easy as they do about god and jesus. You want my opinion; I don't think it was aliens but I sure as fuck know it wasn't them egyptians.


I like that you assume I never thought about this. I just intuitively knew from birth that the Egyptians did it.

I did question it. The pyramids are mind boggling. They would require fantastic amounts of engineering, and hard labor, and time - exactly what the egyptians had. They did not pop up over night, they were incredible feats that required thousands and thousands of slave laborers over the course of a multiple human life times. When you realize the time it took, and the slave labor they had at their disposal, it makes a bit more sense.

I was not "trained" to think bullshit when I hear the word alien. I have been conditioned to because every single time, without exception (ever), I have heard anything about aliens there has not been one shred of evidence. Not a single conclusive piece of evidence anywhere in the world at any time. Not a single piece, EVER. So far you have not provided any evidence either. For some reason you cannot accept that the egyptians were able to build the pyramids, but you are willing to accept that an even more primitive society was able to build them 5,000 years earlier? Or that it was aliens? Come on man, get a grip.


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## cannabineer (Nov 1, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> that's exactly my point, if you're looking to disprove the theory then all articles you will read are automatically bias. you're not understanding me. in order for a fair and ACCURATE measurement of solar systems far away from us we need the following:
> 
> mass of our solar system
> mass of all 3 solar systems of orion's belt
> ...


What I get from this is the the theories that appeal to you get a light treatment, but the ones that don't, the ones that I as an opponent in debate am presenting, get held to this plainly inaccessible standard of rigor. You cannot pretend to be serious while so openly parading a double standard. 

As for star tracking and astrometry, look up "proper motion", "radial velocity", and their rates of change. If you apply these to the three stars of the Belt, you'll find that the speedster of the bunch, Alnitak, has a proper motion of about an arcminute (the extreme low limit of human visual resolution assisted by nonmagnifying optics) in eighteen thousand years. cn


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## tyler.durden (Nov 1, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> that's exactly my point, if you're looking to disprove the theory then all articles you will read are automatically bias...


This is classic conspiracy theorist circle-jerk reasoning: Any evidence presented against the theory is turned into evidence for the theory via the conspiracy. That's boring...


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## mindphuk (Nov 2, 2012)

The stupidity is oozing in this thread. Of course, I mean active denial. Any and every piece of evidence against the fantasies of these people is automatically biased....lol 
Regardless of the methods and materials, the careful study of hieroglyphs and detailed measurements, and general scientific work, are part of the vast conspiracy of close minded researchers. Anyone that dares claim these people are spreading disinformation acts as if these 'theories' haven't been thoroughly discredited -- treated as if no one has ever investigated these claims, many of which are just laughably wrong -- 'the Egyptians didn't claim to build them? Incorrect claims about the measurements wrt Orion? Seriously, if the astronomer's models of stellar motion within the last 10,000 years are off, who is the one that is claiming it matches a pattern from 10,,000 years? Why is their data not suspect? We have very good evidence that tells us which king, when and how many structures were built. They look at any gaps in our knowledge as an opportunity to act as if nothing is known. We have papyrus that with math problems related to angles and sizes and other things that demonstrate knowledge of pyramid architecture. 

Considering how creative their explanations become, their lack of imagination and creative thought given to understanding how things like pi and phi can be found in a structure when it wasn't done on purpose, i.e, using rolling logs to measure long straight sides, if it's done x number of rotations, pi will automatically work out. Previously I linked to a math article that comes up with many solutions that are not so mysterious, including the prejudice implying that their math wasn't advanced enough to recognize things like phi. I'll have to find that link. However, here's another -- www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/who-built-the-pyramids.html


> *NOVA: In your extensive work and research at Giza have you ever once questioned whether humans built the Pyramids?*
> 
> Mark Lehner: No. But have I ever questioned whether they had divine or super-intelligent inspiration? I first went to Egypt in 1972 and ended up living there 13 years. I was imbued with ideas of Atlantis and Edgar Cayce and so on. So I went over, starting from that point of view, but everything I saw told me, day by day, year by year, that they were very human and the marks of humanity are everywhere on them.
> 
> And you see there's this curious reversal where sometimes New Age theorists say that Egyptologists and archeologists are denigrating the ancient culture. They sometimes put up a scarecrow argument that we say they were primitive. And the New Agers sometimes want to say these were very technologically sophisticated people who built these things; they were not primitive. Well, actually there's a certain irony here, because they say they were very sophisticated technological civilizations and societies that built the Pyramids and the Sphinx, and yet they weren't the ones that we find. So to me, it's these suggestions that are really denigrating the people whose names, bodies, family relationships, tools, and bakeries we actually find.


and how about... http://www.eloquentpeasant.com/2007/08/24/why-the-aliens-did-not-build-the-pyramids/



> When I tell people that I&#8217;m studying Egyptology, people always assume that this means pyramids and mummies, the only things they know about Egypt. In fact these areas are so popular that they are overrun by untrained theorists and most Egyptologists shun them rather than tackling all of the misinformation. Sometimes I can hardly blame them&#8212;even as a lowly student, I was once approached at a conference by a man who wanted to show me the home experiments that he&#8217;d carried out, pulling miniature pyramid blocks in his backyard! The sad thing though is that many people prefer madcap theories to the truth, especially when genuine research is presented in dry academic speak rather than the exciting Indiana Jones-style of tv.
> Once I was actually asked in all seriousness for my professional opinion on whether alien build the pyramids. The man said: &#8216;There&#8217;s so much discussion of the alien theory that there must be something to it, right?&#8217;. Well, my short answer would be, &#8216;No. There isn&#8217;t anything to it at all.&#8217; My longer answer will follow, with a thorough dissection of the central arguments of the alien theory and why they are wrong. I think the main reason the theory is so popular is that people like to believe in things, things that are much bigger than themselves, whether it&#8217;s god or aliens. But often people also want proof and they seek to find it in the pyramids and other ancient monuments. It&#8217;s no wonder that the pyramids are incredible enough that they inspire people to believe the unbelievable. I myself don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s anything wrong with postulating that there might be other life out there in the universe, but I also don&#8217;t believe in robbing humanity of pride in its achievements.


We saw CWE play the game, when he was confronted with evidence against specific claims, he never addressed those and instead shifted focus to other problems. He attempts to overwhelm with new challenges but got mad at me when I wouldn't play his game and address the new claims while perpetually ignoring any response to a critical examination, and destruction of his claim. I then throw a bone and address other claims, even so far as to putting up a public Google map, that demonstrates another piece of misinformation, he again is silent on a response. I guess I found another credulous child that will have to ignore any evidence against his fringe beliefs. One of these links was in post #63 and has been conveniently not mentioned. If he was truly honest with himself he would have to admit that he believes these fringe ideas because they propose some cool shit and wants to believe that this cool shit with some spirituality and not because he rigorously followed the evidence. It's clear he doesn't even know what actual scholars think based on some of his posts. Clearly spending more time reading about the fringe, ultra-minority beliefs is going introduce the bias that he blithely claims in present in mainstream scholarly research.


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## Heisenberg (Nov 2, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> that's exactly my point, if you're looking to disprove the theory then all articles you will read are automatically bias. you're not understanding me.


If you are _not_ looking to disprove theory, then it isn't a theory, it is a favored explanation. The idea that anyone looking to disprove a theory is biased is counter to the entire reason we call it a theory to begin with. The best way to prove yourself right is to fail at proving yourself wrong. This is elementary science methodology, anything else is automatically pseudoscience.

Once again you devalue science in the areas of quality control, yet embrace it when you perceive it backs you up. That is a true example of bias.


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## Heisenberg (Nov 3, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> that doesnt even explain how Coral Castle was made.





Heisenberg said:


> "We don't know whether Ed Leedskalnin used the same techniques as Wally Wallington, but we clearly have to acknowledge that there are ways to do it without machinery. When asked how he built his castle, Ed would answer "It's not difficult if you know how," and according to Coral Castle's web site, he said he was able to move the heavy blocks because he "understood the laws of weight and leverage well." Sounds to me like he figured things out the same way Wallington did."
> 
> 
> "There are photographs of Ed at work on his castle, lifting his blocks with a large tripod made of telephone poles perhaps 25 feet tall, using chains and a block and tackle system. When he once disassembled and relocated Rock Gate Park a few miles from Florida City to Homestead to escape an encroaching subdivision, the blocks were moved on a flatbed trailer towed behind a rented tractor. But his use of tripod cranes and tractors don't seem to fit in very well with the magnetic energy vortex theories, and so you won't find references to these pictures on most Coral Castle web sites."
> ...


**Chief chooses not to respond ^^



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You dont know how they did it as well and you only side with the more simple explanation because we have fancy toys that we think are advanced.





Heisenberg said:


> Following the simplest explanation of evidence is called parsimony. Can you name any phenomena in which the explanation which made unjust assumptions turned out to be correct?


**Chief chooses not to respond ^^




Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Its also kinda funny how many people are against the idea of ancient advanced knowledge when its clear that those structures could not be made with ropes, human labor, or soft metals, yet they still side with the simple explanation that doesnt make them question existence because that option makes them more comfortable.





> "Many stones have grooves several centimeters in width and depth on two adjacent faces for holding ropes. They even had special places cut into the stones that Pumapunku scholars call &#8220;hoisting grips.&#8221; These are all very strange things to do if they could simply levitate these blocks."


Chief responds with...



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I like soup.


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## mindphuk (Nov 3, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> **Chief chooses not to respond ^^
> 
> **Chief chooses not to respond ^^
> 
> Chief responds with...


Par for the course with CWE. He obviously supports otherwordly explanations for things because it fits with his overall world view and not because of adherence to critical thought and thorough examination of the data. He is no different than creationists that dogmatically adhere to their claims while attacking science and findings that support natural explanations. At least the creationists are often honest enough to admit they believe that the bible is infallible and any idea that contradicts it becomes automatically suspect. ganja man and CWE's sources are just as spurious as the bible but more disturbing is the constant lack of acknowledgement of evidence that contradicts their position. I got tired of responding to people like CWE, finshaggy and others that will ultimately just ignore posts that I take time and effort to produce.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 3, 2012)

LOL I love that I am always on every ones mind. The bitter taste in your mouths because of the increased spirituality in SS&P also makes me happy


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 3, 2012)

So you finally defined 'spirituality'!

Spirituality = Bullshit claims that can't be verified!

Thanks, bud!


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 3, 2012)

The hard-atheist comes out again! lol


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## Heisenberg (Nov 3, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> LOL I love that I am always on every ones mind. The bitter taste in your mouths because of the increased spirituality in SS&P also makes me happy


Chief chooses another non-response borrowed from the school-yard. I think we can call this thread another defeat for the aliens. Reason and rationality continues with it's flawless record.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 3, 2012)

And the true mentality of Heis also comes out again, I dont even need to try! lol If only you guys knew you have no voice when trying to 'reason' with believers. Just sitting there aggressively blabbering to yourselves for recognition from your group of people.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 3, 2012)

Shit, I blow-hard response must be in the making.


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## Heisenberg (Nov 3, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> And the true mentality of Heis also comes out again, I dont even need to try! lol If only you guys knew you have no voice when trying to *'reason' with believer*s. Just sitting there aggressively blabbering to yourselves for recognition from *your group of people*.


You are the one grouping people by labels. Who are believers? What do old aliens have to do with spirituality? Who are my 'group of people'? Your theory is demonstrably erroneous but rather than address that you attempt to blame it on some trumped-up division of politics. Typical dodge move in your song and dance, which I long ago named The Batshit Boogie.

Ancient aliens theory falls by the side when you apply the slightest of scrutiny. When pointed out to certain people, they choose to attack reason and sophistication rather than defend or abandon the theory. I did not choose who those people are, nor do I equate them with 'believers' in paranormal or religious ideas.


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## Heisenberg (Nov 3, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> The hard-atheist comes out again! lol





Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> And the true mentality of Heis also comes out again, I dont even need to try! lol If only you guys knew you have no voice when trying to 'reason' with believers. Just sitting there aggressively blabbering to yourselves for recognition from your group of people.





Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Shit, I blow-hard response must be in the making.


So Chief has now apparently abandoned aliens all together. Can we assume this is because he has no idea what to say to counter-evidence? This is now somehow about atheism and spirituality? It's about believers vs those who disagree. One wonders if this was ever truly about evidence or probability of aliens or just another chance for Chief to feel special.

When his tired, well refuted, well discredited evidence goes unanswered, Chief mistakes apathy for victory and responds with,



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> *Cough* o.o


to point this out. When we do take the time to address his evidence, he then says we are simply responding for the benefit of impressing ourselves, we are just being loyal to the non-ideology of atheism, and begins his subtle suggestions that we should be quiet. He is unable to intelligently defend his claims and is left with belittling individual responses and people as his only recourse for avoiding acknowledging falsification.


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## cannabineer (Nov 3, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> LOL I love that I am always on every ones mind. The bitter taste in your mouths because of the increased spirituality in SS&P also makes me happy


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 3, 2012)

Yes, avoid what I was trying to say and resort back to the argument where you want to come out on top, tis the 'Song that never ends'. Believers in the things that you THINK are above nature, is what I meant by 'believers'. Those who militantly yet pointlessly oppose those believers is what i meant by 'Your group of people'. Its pointless because you have no audience on the other side of the argument, no matter what the subject, yet you continue to blabber like you are making an impact on their minds, but Im sure you know you are only doing this for self benefit. 

You avoid the things I brought up that have no 'natural' explanation, because one will probably never be found. Even the explanations you provide are iffy and hard to take seriously. Massive stones were rolled on trees across great distances, elevations and harsh terrain? Ed Leedskalnin did his work using only leverage? Hmmm, that it explains why its still an unknown secret, since he had so many people watching him lift trees when he was a lumber jack. Perhaps he was behind a giant curtain when he was lifting these massive trees, thats why no one seen him and found out his simple secrets that can be reproduced . Indeed, that tripod was a key instrument in his work. But he used that tripod and pully in tight spaces and did seemingly impossible maneuvers to get these stones in the right places? Have you seen pictures of Coral Castle? That tripod is not what you think it is, and it has never been seen since Ed's death.

Damnit... There I go again... Giving thise egomaniac more reason to continue 'The song that never ends'. But without people like me, you would lose a big sense of purpose in life, so I guess I am doing a good deed .


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 3, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> So Chief has now apparently abandoned aliens all together. Can we assume this is because he has no idea what to say to counter-evidence? This is now somehow about atheism and spirituality? It's about believers vs those who disagree. One wonders if this was ever truly about evidence or probability of aliens or just another chance for Chief to feel special.
> 
> When his tired, well refuted, well discredited evidence goes unanswered, Chief mistakes apathy for victory and responds with,
> 
> ...


LOL you are only proving my point even more. Look at how you are talking. You are up on a stool preaching to your people like you are trying to organize a Witch Hunt. This is too funny.


----------



## Heisenberg (Nov 3, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Yes, avoid what I was trying to say and resort back to the argument where you want to come out on top, tis the 'Song that never ends'. Believers in the things that you THINK are above nature, is what I meant by 'believers'.


Your grouping of believers by definition includes people who believe in reincarnation but not heaven, and those who believe in heaven, but not reincarnation. These are groups of people who disagree with each other. Somehow in your description they are both right when they oppose each other but if I oppose either then I am simply being militant. This seems like a long stretch to justify the strawman of 'militant atheism'. Ancient aliens theory is a terrible theory, we do not need to group people into any categories to examine and refute the evidence. This is an area you took the argument to when you had no other recourse.



> Those who militantly yet pointlessly oppose those believers is what i meant by 'Your group of people'. Its pointless because you have no audience on the other side of the argument, no matter what the subject, yet you continue to blabber like you are making an impact on their minds, but Im sure you know you are only doing this for self benefit.


Again, the subtle suggestion that I should be quiet, I should give up. You presented evidence, I questioned it with points that are apparently hard for you to answer. It has nothing to do with any audience in my mind. That illusion is yours alone.



> You avoid the things I brought up that have no 'natural' explanation, because one will probably never be found. Even the explanations you provide are iffy and hard to take seriously. Massive stones were rolled on trees across great distances, elevations and harsh terrain? Ed Leedskalnin did his work using only leverage? Hmmm, that it explains why its still an unknown secret, since he had so many people watching him lift trees when he was a lumber jack. Perhaps he was behind a giant curtain when he was lifting these massive trees, thats why no one seen him and found out his simple secrets that can be reproduced . Indeed, that tripod was a key instrument in his work. But he used that tripod and pully in tight spaces and did seemingly impossible maneuvers to get these stones in the right places? Have you seen pictures of Coral Castle? That tripod is not what you think it is, and it has never been seen since Ed's death.


...therefore aliens did it. You have now gone from "it's impossible" to "it's improbable", while my position has stayed the same, "I don't know."



> Damnit... There I go again... Giving thise egomaniac more reason to continue 'The song that never ends'. But without people like me, you would lose a big sense of purpose in life, so I guess I am doing a good deed .


And you close with more well poisoning. If there is one thing you are persistent at, it's covering your ass. Maybe someday you will find a cover that isn't transparent.


----------



## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 3, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> Your grouping of believers by definition includes people who believe in reincarnation but not heaven, and those who believe in heaven, but not reincarnation. These are groups of people who disagree with each other. Somehow in your description they are both right when they oppose each other but if I oppose either then I am simply being militant. This seems like a long stretch to justify the strawman of 'militant atheism'. Ancient aliens theory is a terrible theory, we do not need to group people into any categories to examine and refute the evidence. This is an area you took the argument to when you had no other recourse.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yes, believers in reincarnation and heaven are in my description of 'believers' because I believe in both heaven and reincarnation and we believe in things that you think are above nature. You only think ancient aliens is a terrible theory because you refuse to accept that some of the things they accomplished would be extremely difficult with modern technology, never mind simple tools, so you just say 'I dont know'. 

Im not suggesting that you be quiet. Im just saying your efforts are useless and nothing is gained from your input, at least from my side of the argument, and its the same situation from your side of the argument but Im not the one seeking those that are against my point of view like you are. I just gotta let you sermonize me with truth I guess!

Your position is 'I dont know'? Since when? This whole time you were passionately opposing these claims but you finally admit that you dont know if aliens were here or not. I dont get you man. 

Well poisoning? I think Im accurate. What would you do with your spare time if there wasnt people like me making 'logical fallacies' on the internet? God forbid you do something productive lol.


----------



## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 3, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> LOL you are only proving my point even more. Look at how you are talking. You are up on a stool preaching to your people like you are trying to organize a Witch Hunt. This is too funny.


*Cough* o.o


----------



## Heisenberg (Nov 3, 2012)

> Chief Walkin Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > that doesnt even explain how Coral Castle was made.
> ...


*Cough* o.o


----------



## Heisenberg (Nov 3, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> yes, believers in reincarnation and heaven are in my description of 'believers' because I believe in both heaven and reincarnation and we believe in things that you think are above nature. You only think ancient aliens is a terrible theory because you* refuse to accept that some of the things they accomplished would be extremely difficult* with modern technology, never mind simple tools, so you just say 'I dont know'.


Show me one scientist or 'non-believer' who says it was easy. It's amazing, but amazing doesn't equate to aliens. Saying I don't know is intellectually honest, saying aliens did it is demonstrably stupid. So now that you have turned back to aliens as the topic, you dig up the same argument as before? A strawman coupled with a non-sequitor.



> Im not suggesting that you be quiet. Im just saying your efforts are useless and nothing is gained from your input, at least from my side of the argument, and its the same situation from your side of the argument but Im not the one seeking those that are against my point of view like you are. I just gotta let you sermonize me with truth I guess!


Again, the problem is when you devalue others for not agreeing. 



> Your position is 'I dont know'? Since when? This whole time you were passionately opposing these claims but you finally admit that you dont know if aliens were here or not. I dont get you man.


You don't pay attention apparently.



Heisenberg said:


> *None of us are saying humans did it, we are saying it's very likely and possible humans did it, and we have no reason to suspect otherwise*, because as #1 points out, saying you can't understand it does not indicate aliens. This isn't good enough for you? You need for us to agree with your alien theory? We have problems with the alien theory and we vocalize them. You then get inexplicably mad and accuse us of intellectual superiority. How intellectually superior does a person have to be to say '*I don't know*" or "aliens doesn't make sense". You have to accuse us of being uncomfortable with the idea, and opposing you only because we like to rep each other. It never occurs to you that we criticize because it's warranted? For some reason, you have to invent boogiemen...


To this you responded with,



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I like soup.


and now you complain that you don't 'get me' or understand my position. Do you not ever check yourself before you post? Is this the same sort of observational skill you applied when examining alien theory? 




> Well poisoning? I think Im accurate. What would you do with your spare time if there wasnt people like me making 'logical fallacies' on the internet? God forbid you do something productive lol.


Alluding to my use of time as not productive, alluding to ulterior motives, is well poisoning when it is done preemptively, as you have. It's a way to cover your ass from the rebuttal that is sure to come.


----------



## ctwalrus (Nov 3, 2012)

a much stronger case can be made for the mayans having alien contact/help than the egyptions.


----------



## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 3, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> *Cough* o.o


HAH Im assuming you knew I was right. Now you stepped off the stool but still have a raised voice, and the preaching continues.


----------



## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 3, 2012)

ctwalrus said:


> a much stronger case can be made for the mayans having alien contact/help than the egyptions.


Im speaking for ancient civilizations with amazing structures in general.


----------



## ctwalrus (Nov 3, 2012)

yeah i just read the entire thread... no your not. but hey change your story as much as mitt romney i suppose, i dont care.


----------



## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 3, 2012)

ctwalrus said:


> yeah i just read the entire thread... no your not. but hey change your story as much as mitt romney i suppose, i dont care.


You skipped the part about Puma Punku or Inca structures? That might of been in another thread. This whole subforum is a pointless shit-show of arguing. Cant tell whats going on in this clusterfuck.


----------



## Heisenberg (Nov 3, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> HAH Im assuming you knew I was right. Now you stepped off the stool but still have a raised voice, and the preaching continues.


That doesn't even make sense. I am beginning to suspect you are simply on the fringe of entering insanity, you are at the age when we sometimes see the onset, and you appear to be getting more schizophrenic as the weeks pass.




> Below are the main characteristics identified by Wilson and Barber as being shared by those designated fantasy-prone,(1) as children they lived in a make-believe world much or most of the time; (2) as adults "the extensiveness and vividness of their fantasy has not significantly decreased" (3) 65% hallucinate and experience their fantasies "as real as real"; (4) 64% occasionally pretend to be someone else; (5) most have very vivid sensory experiences, while only about 10% of the comparison group have vivid sensory experiences; (6) most have vivid memories, while only about 4% in the comparison group do; (7) most can produce physical effects by imagining experiences, including orgasm, feeling heat or cold, or illness at the thought of eating putrid food; several in the comparison group shared this ability


Any of that sound familiar?


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## marc88101 (Nov 3, 2012)

I came from my mom's vag!


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 3, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> That doesn't even make sense. I am beginning to suspect you are simply on the fringe of entering insanity, you are at the age when we sometimes see the onset, and you appear to be getting more schizophrenic as the weeks pass.
> 
> Any of that sound familiar?


Holy shit that sounds spot on!


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 3, 2012)

Poor schitzos, they have no idea whats happening or how to deal with it or manipulate it so that the experiences are better. 

My childhood world was quite real like every other normal person, actually. Went to church a handful of times. Believed in Jesus but thought Adam and Eve and what not was bullshit right from the start. Didnt really care at all about christianity though, just did my thang.

My boring childhood carried on to boring teenage and adulthood, like most people. Then I experienced some crazy shit, along with a lot of people that I know, but we all share the same hallucinations and it says nothing about reality? Damn, its crazy how people who are obliviously schitzos can find each other by chance and we all share the same hallucinations. Does that mean schizophrenia is infectious? Because new people experience these exact same hallucinations... lol


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 3, 2012)

Except there's no way to verify any of your experience. What it always seems to boil down to with you is if you can't explain it, __________. You consistently fail to realize that you can't attribute anything to any reason if you have no evidence to do so. 

And you never care to explain it in any further detail. 

What experience did you share and with how many other people?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 3, 2012)

marc88101 said:


> I came from my mom's vag!


----------



## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 3, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Except there's no way to verify any of your experience.
> 
> And you never care to explain it in any further detail.
> 
> What experience did you share and with how many other people?


Are you kidding me? I've explained these experiences for hours in vivid detail because I was being hounded by you guys. You forgot all about that? Do I really have to start this conversation again? lol


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## HeartlandHank (Nov 3, 2012)

This was the most offensive thing I could find...


God.. aka whiskers


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## tyler.durden (Nov 3, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Are you kidding me? I've explained these experiences for hours in vivid detail because I was being hounded by you guys. You forgot all about that? Do I really have to start this conversation again? lol


Yeah, Pad! Are you joshing us? How could it be possible that you would forget any, much less all of the details of Chief's Amazing Life Story? It was so compelling and memorable, I know that I, for one, often sit around and think through all of his incredible anecdotes. They really are convincing...


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 3, 2012)

All I remember about it was he was walking with his friend and thought something, then his friend repeated it, then he got scared his friend could read his mind, then his friend reassured him everything was fine, and that was pretty much it.

I don't remember any mention of multiple people experiencing the same delusion at the same time. 

So Chief, what happened?


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## cannabineer (Nov 3, 2012)

That's not very heartland, Hank.  cn


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 3, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> All I remember about it was he was walking with his friend and thought something, then his friend repeated it, then he got scared his friend could read his mind, then his friend reassured him everything was fine, and that was pretty much it.
> 
> I don't remember any mention of multiple people experiencing the same delusion at the same time.
> 
> So Chief, what happened?


Sheesh! I dont want this to be the third/fourth time I type a story that takes up the page so I'll try to keep it short. 

You got the story wrong btw. Thought my friend was fucking crazy for a long time, eventually started to respect him and his spiritual views while still thinking hes crazy. A group of us were walking silently to our dealers house and I was in deep thought about one of our discussions and he answered a question that I THOUGHT of. All I said was "WHAAT?!". Blew my mind, I didnt speak of what happened, just kept walking. I was freaking out that he was in my head, anxiety took over and couldnt help but think about bad things about me, staying calm on the outside. To calm me down he said "Your faults are what define you, they are the diamond of your being" and I was calm.

I wondered why he replied and answered to his other friend when his other friend wouldnt say anything at all. 

I know of at least ten people that consistently experience his abilities, he probably knows a lot more, never seen him in a long time. Time and time again, same outcome, same accuracy and consistency no matter what the circumstances or situation. 

Alright, ask questions and point things out that stop me dead in my tracks lol.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 3, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Sheesh! I dont want this to be the third/fourth time I type a story that takes up the page so I'll try to keep it short.
> 
> You got the story wrong btw. Thought my friend was fucking crazy for a long time, eventually started to respect him and his spiritual views while still thinking hes crazy. A group of us were walking silently to our dealers house and I was in deep thought about one of our discussions and he answered a question that I THOUGHT of. All I said was "WHAAT?!". Blew my mind, I didnt speak of what happened, just kept walking. I was freaking out that he was in my head, anxiety took over and couldnt help but think about bad things about me, staying calm on the outside. To calm me down he said "Your faults are what define you, they are the diamond of your being" and I was calm.
> 
> ...


What conclusion are you reaching from this? 

From what you just described, the only rational conclusion I can come to is "I don't understand". That's it. What did you come to?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 3, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> What conclusion are you reaching from this?
> 
> From what you just described, the only rational conclusion I can come to is "I don't understand". That's it. What did you come to?


LOL @ your conclusion. No offence. Just kinda seems desperate. 

Hes able to read thoughts that include him or are directed to him, from yelling distance. Surely that is understandable, yes? Though scientifically, how it is possible is not yet understood, which I dont see a problem with. Spiritually, it makes sense.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 3, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> LOL @ your conclusion. No offence. Just kinda seems desperate.
> 
> Hes able to read thoughts that include him or are directed to him, from yelling distance. Surely that is understandable, yes? Though scientifically, how it is possible is not yet understood, which I dont see a problem with. Spiritually, it makes sense.


Chief, you don't understand either. If you did, you would be able to explain it. 

You simply mark it up as "spirituality" and call it a day? What kind of answer is that? 

Why not just say "MAGIC!", it explains exactly as much as "spirituality" does, none. 


I'm not interested in magic, I'm interested in data, replicable results, conclusive explanations. 

What positive claims can you make about your friends gift? Things like "he can read anyones mind whose thinking about him in his immediate surroundings", could he tell me the number I was thinking of 100% of the time?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 3, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Chief, you don't understand either. If you did, you would be able to explain it.
> 
> You simply mark it up as "spirituality" and call it a day? What kind of answer is that?
> 
> ...


I dont see why not. Hes 100% accurate with me and anyone else who chooses to send thoughts to him, but only numbers and card games will verify that? Why are number and card games more verifiable than him being 100% accurate all the time about whats going through peoples heads? Its repeatable, its consistent, and we dont even need to say anything to give him a clue about what we're thinking about, because he already knows.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 3, 2012)

Also, I can somewhat explain it. No ones thoughts are confined to only their head. They are constantly streaming outside of our head like clouds or strings, subtly influencing reality. We often call these things 'coincidences'.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 4, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I dont see why not. Hes 100% accurate with me and anyone else who chooses to send thoughts to him, but only numbers and card games will verify that? Why are number and card games more verifiable than him being 100% accurate all the time about whats going through peoples heads? Its repeatable, its consistent, and we dont even need to say anything to give him a clue about what we're thinking about, because he already knows.





Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Also, I can somewhat explain it. No ones thoughts are confined to only their head. They are constantly streaming outside of our head like clouds or strings, subtly influencing reality. We often call these things 'coincidences'.


How do you "send thoughts to him", exactly? If I were to meet him, how would I do this?

Numbers are simply a way of confirming the claim. If I sat down with him and 50 out of 50 times he guessed what number I was thinking of out of 1,000, I would instantly apologize to you and become a believer. It's statistically impossible to guess 50 times correctly. 

If what you claim about thoughts is true, how would you explain these types of people tap into them? Why can't I do it, why can't you do it? 

Are you saying you don't believe in coincidences?


I've asked before, but is there any way you can get me in touch with this individual to ask him about his gift?


----------



## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 4, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> How do you "send thoughts to him", exactly? If I were to meet him, how would I do this?
> 
> Numbers are simply a way of confirming the claim. If I sat down with him and 50 out of 50 times he guessed what number I was thinking of out of 1,000, I would instantly apologize to you and become a believer. It's statistically impossible to guess 50 times correctly.
> 
> ...


It doesnt take much to send thoughts to him, just include him into your thought process. Its not something you can do now, you two have no idea about each other, no where to send thoughts to because you only know about him from me. 

So if he answered a specific question in detail that you thought of, and another, and another, and then he repeated something personal that you thought of, what would be your conclusion then? Those card and number games just seem like a waste of time when you can come up with the exact same conclusion with him answering specific questions that are only in your head. 

I think we obliviously tap into it sometimes. I often think of things and my dad or my best friend would bring up what I think about, I guess there has to be some kinda good compatibility with people. His case is different though. Hes a very old soul but still has a typical 18 year old personality. He was sent here to help in a crucial time in Earths history. He very suddenly became aware of who he was 2 years ago. He did say we can do what he is able to do. I dont know if he means with great practice or it will come to us in another lifetime. Im not expecting you to take any of that seriously lol. 

I believe in coincidences, less so than peoples thoughts influencing reality or synchronicity showing that you are in the right place. 

*sigh* I can bug him again I guess. Would his facebook be fine? I think thats all he has to talk to you with. What questions would you ask him though? Its not like you would take them seriously because his answers would have to do with spirituality, and that just doesnt fly with you.


----------



## Heisenberg (Nov 4, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> LOL @ your conclusion. No offence. Just kinda seems desperate.
> 
> Hes able to read thoughts that include him or are directed to him, from yelling distance. Surely that is understandable, yes? Though scientifically, how it is possible is *not yet understood*, which I dont see a problem with. *Spiritually, it makes sense.*


I don't see how ESP = spirituality. Spirituality is the efforts some people make to overcome their feeling of separateness through deep contemplation, meditation, psychedelics, or other means of inducing non-ordinary states of consciousness. I don't often here of those who claim to achieve oneness claiming to read people's minds. This seems like another case of 'I don't understand it so ____.', in this case the blank is filled in with spirituality, which means you are basically saying, 'this is not yet understood but it is understood as spirituality'.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 4, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> I don't see how ESP = spirituality. Spirituality is the efforts some people make to overcome their feeling of separateness through deep contemplation, meditation, psychedelics, or other means of inducing non-ordinary states of consciousness. I don't often here of those who claim to achieve oneness claiming to read people's minds. This seems like another case of 'I don't understand it so ____.', in this case the blank is filled in with spirituality, which means you are basically saying, 'this is not yet understood but it is understood as spirituality'.


You havent heard mind reading stories about psychedelics or people sharing the exact same realistic hallucinations? There seems to be some kinda of non physical connection there (btw, the definition of telepathy says it is non physical/material). You must of been working on this response for a bit, because I already gave my explanation. I can see why you would WANT ESP to be something of this material world though, would be quite a drastic change in perspective if you were to accept the spiritual explanation, thats if ESP were scientifically proven.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 4, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> It doesnt take much to send thoughts to him, just include him into your thought process. Its not something you can do now, you two have no idea about each other, no where to send thoughts to because you only know about him from me.
> 
> So if he answered a specific question in detail that you thought of, and another, and another, and then he repeated something personal that you thought of, what would be your conclusion then? Those card and number games just seem like a waste of time when you can come up with the exact same conclusion with him answering specific questions that are only in your head.
> 
> ...


Do I need to physically meet him for this process to work correctly?

My conclusion would be the same as if he guessed 50 times correctly. 

If you and I were watching the same movie, and came up with similar questions, would you conclude we could read each others minds? I'm trying to illustrate that when two people are subject to the same external influences, there is a reasonable tendency to think or feel the same thoughts or feelings. Nothing supernatural about it. 

How did he become "aware of who he was"? Why didn't you clarify what he meant when he said that we're able to do what he can do? This is something that, to me, seems like one of those questions I'd kill for an answer to. 

His facebook would be fine if the claims you've made are verifiable without having to actually speak to or meet him, though I'm sure it would be useful otherwise as the claims would be from more than one source. Regardless, I'd be interested in what he has to say about it.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 4, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Do I need to physically meet him for this process to work correctly?
> 
> My conclusion would be the same as if he guessed 50 times correctly.
> 
> ...


Speak to physically, I mean...


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## Heisenberg (Nov 4, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You havent heard mind reading stories about psychedelics or people sharing the exact same realistic hallucinations? There seems to be some kinda of non physical connection there (btw, the definition of telepathy says it is non physical/material). You must of been working on this response for a bit, because I already gave my explanation. I can see why you would WANT ESP to be something of this material world though, would be quite a drastic change in perspective if you were to accept the spiritual explanation, thats if ESP were scientifically proven.


I do not fear a drastic change in perspective if the evidence takes me in that direction. Your friends ESP may or may not be real, but regardless, what you have done is explain a mystery by inventing more mystery, which accomplishes nothing.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 4, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Do I need to physically meet him for this process to work correctly?
> 
> My conclusion would be the same as if he guessed 50 times correctly.
> 
> ...


Yes, you need to meet him. You need something you can put a name to, you gotta establish a connection somehow, get to know him a bit, perhaps even start respecting him. He didnt show me anything until I started respecting him for a while. 

thats a bit like your "He simply guessed what you were thinking about at the exact time you were thinking it" explanation that you gave me when we first had this discussion a long time ago. Conversation subjects or things that are happening around us would have to relate to what we both thought of if your explanation was completely right. Thats hardly the case though. But I think we can both agree that you are not certain of your explanation and you accept that there may indeed be 'supernatural' influences in reality. 

He became aware of who he was when a demon tried to kill him and one of his guardian angels stepped in, so he says. We can do what he can do, but we cant control it, that takes great practice, I dont know how much practice, thats why I said it might come to us in another lifetime.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 4, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> I do not fear a drastic change in perspective if the evidence takes me in that direction. Your friends ESP may or may not be real, but regardless, what you have done is explain a mystery by inventing more mystery.


He is capable of more than just ESP. He can completely enter your body/mind/soul when he is in a meditated state, and it is very obvious that he is there. So hes capable of all these physically impossible things, yet hes obliviously lying to himself when he says its because of spirituality? He doesnt know how hes doing these things?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 4, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Speak to physically, I mean...


Im still open to Tylers idea of sending you here. Start collecting some cash from your peeps! It will be quite the trip lol


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## Heisenberg (Nov 4, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> He is capable of more than just ESP. He can completely enter your body/mind/soul when he is in a meditated state, and it is very obvious that he is there. So hes capable of all these physically impossible things, yet hes obliviously lying to himself when he says its because of spirituality? He doesnt know how hes doing these things?


I am working under the hypothetical that your friend does exhibit ESP. I asked how spirituality fit in. To me it seems that spirituality is used to explain anything that science has not, rather than some sort of defined state or practice that can reliably induce abilities like ESP. Your spirituality seems to exist only in the gaps of what's understood.


----------



## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 4, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> I am working under the hypothetical that your friend does exhibit ESP. I asked how spirituality fit in. To me it seems that spirituality is used to explain anything that science has not, rather than some sort of defined state or practice that can reliably induce abilities like ESP. Your spirituality seems to exist only in the gaps of what's understood.


Do you think he knows how he is able to do this though? Hes either telling the truth that its spirituality. Oblivious that what hes doing has nothing to do with spirituality. Or he is lying and knows its not spiritual and he is tricking everyone that hes a spiritualist with secrets rather than an atheist with secrets.

I think if you were to scan his brain while he was communicating with someone, you would see activity in his pineal gland or the whole central part of his brain. Theres no way you can tell if something is coming or going, because we do that constantly without or knowledge. This ability is a characteristic of the soul and the soul cannot be detected by science. I think scientists would see the activity in the brain and nothing else then confirm it is happening because of the brain and noting else.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 4, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Yes, you need to meet him. You need something you can put a name to, you gotta establish a connection somehow, get to know him a bit, perhaps even start respecting him. He didnt show me anything until I started respecting him for a while.


Would he have a problem with this sort of situation, if I were to travel where he is, would he oppose such investigation? 



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> that's a bit like your "He simply guessed what you were thinking about at the exact time you were thinking it" explanation that you gave me when we first had this discussion a long time ago. Conversation subjects or things that are happening around us would have to relate to what we both thought of if your explanation was completely right. Thats hardly the case though. But I think we can both agree that you are not certain of your explanation and you accept that there may indeed be 'supernatural' influences in reality.


I am absolutely not certain of any explanation. If supernatural influences were at play, and there were reasonable and measurable reasons to believe them, they wouldn't be supernatural. They would be occurring in the natural world, rendering them natural events. If what you propose is true, you and your friend would instantly become internationally famous. 



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> He became aware of who he was when a demon tried to kill him and one of his guardian angels stepped in, so he says. We can do what he can do, but we cant control it, that takes great practice, I dont know how much practice, thats why I said it might come to us in another lifetime.



Why wouldn't you ask him these sorts of detailed questions about it? Is he bothered by any inquisition? This is the type of stuff, had it happened to me personally, I'd spend days, weeks, months getting to the bottom of! It seems like you've simply accepted the brief answers he's given you and that's it. And again, that type of behavior seems completely contrary to what I'd expect someone to have in such a situation. You can realize this, I'm sure, right? If someone created a device that teleports people across vast distances, would you expect them to accept a minimal explanation such as "well yeah, it's got to do with computers n shit.."? It's vague, non explanatory.. I'd be asking "how does it work?", "how did you figure it out?", "is it an exact copy or a replication?", etc..... 



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Im still open to Tylers idea of sending you here. Start collecting some cash from your peeps! It will be quite the trip lol


I would be glad to make the trip, but I'd need some sort of evidence before hand, something to justify travelling thousands of miles for, and I'd bring TD with me! Nahwhatimsayin?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 4, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Would he have a problem with this sort of situation, if I were to travel where he is, would he oppose such investigation?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I dont think he would have a problem. You traveled thousands of miles to see him. Theres a very slight chance that he might tell you to fuck off because he might not like you, thats just a guess though, hes usually not an asshole. 

What is good about becoming famous? I dont think those that are in power would want truth to spread. People would be believing what he has to say and the elite would lose power, wars can be caused over that shit. Extreme religious people would be calling him the devil and threatening him. Money and fame would only corrupt his soul because he would become over indulgent on materialistic things. He also wouldnt want to be a lab rat to those that he thinks are stupid (scientists) because they are obsessed with an illusion (physical reality). I dont think they are stupid, btw, I enjoy the discoveries in physics and what not. Plus he would hate the constant questioning from people, he hated the constant questioning from me. 

I was obsessed about these things once he exposed this reality to me. I couldnt get it off my mind. I constantly asked him questions. I couldnt believe I was the only one amazed and eager to learn! Everyone else was like "Woa man, this is some scary shit". At about the fourth discussion that lasted a couple hours he finally told me hes sick of me asking questions and that I know enough to start learning and experiencing reality myself. Some crazy fucking stories man, I tell ya lol. I imagine it is possible to do what he does in this lifetime, we have the tools, everyone is equally divine. Im assuming you'd have to have more patience and know-how than a Buddhist monk though. 

Evidence as in if he actually exists or testimonies from other people about his abilities or something else? I dont see what else there is to offer when you are way over there.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 4, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I dont think he would have a problem. You traveled thousands of miles to see him. Theres a very slight chance that he might tell you to fuck off because he might not like you, thats just a guess though, hes usually not an asshole.
> 
> What is good about becoming famous? I dont think those that are in power would NOT (major edit) want truth to spread. People would be believing what he has to say and the elite would lose power, wars can be caused over that shit. Extreme religious people would be calling him the devil and threatening him. Money and fame would only corrupt his soul because he would become over indulgent on materialistic things. He also wouldnt want to be a lab rat to those that he thinks are stupid (scientists) because they are obsessed with an illusion (physical reality). I dont think they are stupid, btw, I enjoy the discoveries in physics and what not. Plus he would hate the constant questioning from people, he hated the constant questioning from me.


I agree, anything against the status quo would likely be met with defense. But what if it was kept quiet, what if I signed a confidentiality agreement? He'd avoid fame and fortune and only you and I (and those that viewed the interviews, who would likely end up with their own conclusions as most people do now, especially regarding such things) would know the truth. 

I don't understand why he'd hate to be questioned about such things and not feel it's expected. Can you expand on that? It would seem like between close friends he'd be excited to inform, not hesitant.. 



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I was obsessed about these things once he exposed this reality to me. I couldnt get it off my mind. I constantly asked him questions. I couldnt believe I was the only one amazed and eager to learn! Everyone else was like "Woa man, this is some scary shit". At about the fourth discussion that lasted a couple hours he finally told me hes sick of me asking questions and that I know enough to start learning and experiencing reality myself. Some crazy fucking stories man, I tell ya lol. I imagine it is possible to do what he does in this lifetime, we have the tools, everyone is equally divine. Im assuming you'd have to have more patience and know-how than a Buddhist monk though.


Why would he feel that way? I honestly don't understand.. did you give him a lot of grief over it when you discovered it? Was it a constant sort of nagging on your part, as it no doubt would be for me? I'd question until he demanded, insisted, I stop. Until he quit answering my questions, as something like this would be amazing. No different than discovering a Genie in a lamp! 



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Evidence as in if he actually exists or testimonies from other people about his abilities or something else? I dont see what else there is to offer when you are way over there.


Testimonies from other people would increase the strength of your argument, but something that would warrant international travel, actually speaking to the guy or even FB messaging, would help..


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 4, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I agree, anything against the status quo would likely be met with defense. But what if it was kept quiet, what if I signed a confidentiality agreement? He'd avoid fame and fortune and only you and I (and those that viewed the interviews, who would likely end up with their own conclusions as most people do now, especially regarding such things) would know the truth.
> 
> I don't understand why he'd hate to be questioned about such things and not feel it's expected. Can you expand on that? It would seem like between close friends he'd be excited to inform, not hesitant..
> 
> ...


I fucked up on the "NOT (major edit)" part. Im really tired and thought I said those that are in power would want truth to get out there. 

I dont think you knowing his abilities would spread a whole lot of awareness around. I think the skeptics here would be like "Shit... we lost Pad" lol. Its not his intention to get many people believing him, though he is enlightening those he sees fit, without gathering a following. I just dont see how we can scientifically study him with scanners a scientists while keeping it under wraps, those scientists would want recognition and they would want the truth to be heard. I just see shit hitting the fan if this got global recognition. 

Lol thats exactly what happened. It was hard for me to stay on one subject because I would already have another question in my head. I wish I could remember a lot of the things we discussed because my mind was racing when ever we discussed, it was hard to take it all in. It was constant questioning, none stop whenever we discussed. He finally started to not take my questions seriously and then demanded that I stop asking questions. My friends thought I was a little bit crazy for a bit, and I said "how could you not feel a little bit crazy when you know what this guy is capable of and what he knows?!?". Some are finally starting to practice spirituality now though... Next time I see him we'll have a talk though. We still do have small discussions that last for 5 minutes or so. I hold myself back.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 4, 2012)

Hey Chief, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to hault the conversation till tomorrow, I'm tired as fuck, I'll get back to you then, bud

I appreciate the civil discourse tonight, though.


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## Zaehet Strife (Nov 4, 2012)

CWF, ask for proof, ask for simple tests to be done to reassure you, if he gets mad, you know he is lying. If he is enthusiastic about showing you all the secrets and how he does everything, you know he is telling the truth.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Nov 4, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Poor schitzos, they have no idea whats happening or how to deal with it or manipulate it so that the experiences are better.
> 
> My childhood world was quite real like every other normal person, actually. Went to church a handful of times. Believed in Jesus but thought Adam and Eve and what not was bullshit right from the start. Didnt really care at all about christianity though, just did my thang.
> 
> My boring childhood carried on to boring teenage and adulthood, like most people. Then I experienced some crazy shit, along with a lot of people that I know, but we all share the same hallucinations and it says nothing about reality? Damn, its crazy how people who are obliviously schitzos can find each other by chance and we all share the same hallucinations. Does that mean schizophrenia is infectious? Because new people experience these exact same hallucinations... lol


its true, my dad was a schizo(is?) and i have a brother and sister who both suffer from mild schizophrenia, like memory lapses, voices(only when sober). its the reason why he grows cannabis, its meds for him, for years i thought i was gonna end up like that due to the kinda life we had/stress but so far so good.


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## loquacious (Nov 4, 2012)

WeedPublican said:


> Well at the end of the day the universe is trillions of light years wide, for people to think that we are the only civilization is ignorance at its finest.


Actually, it is quite possible that we are an anomaly in the universe. Although I will say that the odds of there being no life in the universe is so highly improbable that it is not even calculable. However, if we go with the theory that due to the shear volume of the universe, there has to be alien life than we must also accept the fact (however infinitesimal) that we could just be a mistake.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Nov 4, 2012)

loquacious said:


> Actually, it is quite possible that we are an anomaly in the universe. Although I will say that the odds of there being no life in the universe is so highly improbable that it is not even calculable. However, if we go with the theory that due to the shear volume of the universe, there has to be alien life than we must also accept the fact (however infinitesimal) that we could just be a mistake.


i know one thing that will change the convo, finding life or evidence of prehistoric life on mars. it would kill the "we are alone" mentality. also


we will be the aliens- when we get to mars(if) we will be the invaders. think about that


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## HeartlandHank (Nov 4, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> That's not very heartland, Hank.  cn


I moved South for the winter. Deep South.


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## cannabineer (Nov 4, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> CWF, ask for proof, ask for simple tests to be done to reassure you, if he gets mad, you know he is lying. If he is enthusiastic about showing you all the secrets and how he does everything, you know he is telling the truth.


I don't trust that correlation. The very best con men exude sincerity and enthusiasm. Mind you; that's not an observation on CWE's friend. Just a caution that that might not work. cn


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## cannabineer (Nov 4, 2012)

HeartlandHank said:


> I moved South for the winter. Deep South.


To the Buttland?  cn


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## guy incognito (Nov 4, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I agree, anything against the status quo would likely be met with defense. But what if it was kept quiet, what if I signed a confidentiality agreement? He'd avoid fame and fortune and only you and I (and those that viewed the interviews, who would likely end up with their own conclusions as most people do now, especially regarding such things) would know the truth.


Uh, he is a mind reader, shouldn't he be able to know your true intentions and whether you actually plan to keep quite or not without any kind of legal document? Shouldn't he just be able to read your mind and know himself? If he can't then I don't think his argument will hold any water.

I think chief is lying. I don't think him or any of his friends have the abilities he claims. I have heard the testimony a thousand times, and 100% when analyzed it turns out to be bullshit. There has never been a single case of what he is claiming can happen, ever, despite thousands of outlandish claims like this. I will only believe when someone can actually demonstrate it is true, until then it's pure bullshit.

Seriously though, you and your buddy should enter the randi challenge. Get a cool million bucks if you can perform these esp readings under laboratory conditions, which should be no problem if they are real.


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## HeartlandHank (Nov 4, 2012)

From what I understand... Carbon is thought to be abundant in the Universe, produced by older stars. Astrophysicists? i think...
Silica is the most likely candidate for being another element that could possibly be the base of life. I don't understand much of that, but from what I do understand, it is not capable of the complexity and self replicating that carbon is capable of. So, probably no silica based life "civilizations" out there. 

Complex chains and rings of carbon that escape from the heat of older stars and find themselves in a cool region of space with Hydrogen to bond to will form the simplest organic compounds (compounds associated with life processes). You need lipids, proteins, carbohydrates and nucleic acids. Then you can have life. I think it seems pretty likely to have happened at some point. 
---
I don't think Aliens built the pyramids. I think humans did. It is easy to underestimate what humans can do... especially in our time, when most of us are not very active. 
I think, in general, it is thought that the pyramids at Giza were built by 20,000 - 100,000 laborers, working year round, over decades. The idea that the pyramids could not be built with technology today is asinine. (As the video stated)


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## tyler.durden (Nov 4, 2012)

guy incognito said:


> Uh, he is a mind reader, shouldn't he be able to know your true intentions and whether you actually plan to keep quite or not without any kind of legal document? Shouldn't he just be able to read your mind and know himself? If he can't then I don't think his argument will hold any water.
> 
> I think chief is lying. I don't think him or any of his friends have the abilities he claims. I have heard the testimony a thousand times, and 100% when analyzed it turns out to be bullshit. There has never been a single case of what he is claiming can happen, ever, despite thousands of outlandish claims like this. I will only believe when someone can actually demonstrate it is true, until then it's pure bullshit.
> 
> Seriously though, you and your buddy should enter the randi challenge. Get a cool million bucks if you can perform these esp readings under laboratory conditions, which should be no problem if they are real.


Of course he is lying: he's not being tricked or lied to, just making up pure shit in an attempt to legitimize the beliefs he needs to be true. We've suggested the Randi Challenge to him already, and his special friend wasn't down with it. Big surprise. The same will happen this time; he'll supposedly present the idea of doing some FB contact with Pad, his friend will decline because he's too spiritual (or doesn't exist), and we'll be right back where we are which is, 'oh well, I guess you'll just have to believe me...' Let's see if my prediction comes true, perhaps I'm clairvoyant...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 4, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> CWF, ask for proof, ask for simple tests to be done to reassure you, if he gets mad, you know he is lying. If he is enthusiastic about showing you all the secrets and how he does everything, you know he is telling the truth.


Pad agrees that the 'tests' I done were enough. If my friend answered a specific question in detail that Pad thought about, and answered another, and another, and repeated a personal experience that Pad thought about, then Pad would come to the same conclusion that I and many people I know have. Y U mad bro? lol


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 4, 2012)

guy incognito said:


> Uh, he is a mind reader, shouldn't he be able to know your true intentions and whether you actually plan to keep quite or not without any kind of legal document? Shouldn't he just be able to read your mind and know himself? If he can't then I don't think his argument will hold any water.
> 
> I think chief is lying. I don't think him or any of his friends have the abilities he claims. I have heard the testimony a thousand times, and 100% when analyzed it turns out to be bullshit. There has never been a single case of what he is claiming can happen, ever, despite thousands of outlandish claims like this. I will only believe when someone can actually demonstrate it is true, until then it's pure bullshit.
> 
> Seriously though, you and your buddy should enter the randi challenge. Get a cool million bucks if you can perform these esp readings under laboratory conditions, which should be no problem if they are real.


I suggest you re-read the discussion for the answer to your suggestion.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 4, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Of course he is lying: he's not being tricked or lied to, just making up pure shit in an attempt to legitimize the beliefs he needs to be true. We've suggested the Randi Challenge to him already, and his special friend wasn't down with it. Big surprise. The same will happen this time; he'll supposedly present the idea of doing some FB contact with Pad, his friend will decline because he's too spiritual (or doesn't exist), and we'll be right back where we are which is, 'oh well, I guess you'll just have to believe me...' Let's see if my prediction comes true, perhaps I'm clairvoyant...


I dont care if you believe me or not lol I dont care how many people are aware of THEM (not him) and their abilities. It dont bother me none.


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## tyler.durden (Nov 4, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I dont care if you believe me or not lol I dont care how many people are aware of THEM (not him) and their abilities. It dont bother me none.


Oh, you care a LOT. That's why you made up the story in the first place, and why you've told it multiple times in this forum. No one actually believes your story, but you know that. So, how's it going setting up the communication between Pad and your imaginary friend(s)? Are we at the part of the story where he says no again? I like that part...

P.S. You used that poster a few days ago, you should wait at least a week before trying the same joke. More effective that way...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 4, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Oh, you care a LOT. That's why you made up the story in the first place, and why you've told it multiple times in this forum. No one actually believes your story, but you know that. So, how's it going setting up the communication between Pad and your imaginary friend(s)? Are we at the part of the story where he says no again? I like that part...
> 
> P.S. You used that poster a few days ago, you should wait at least a week before trying the same joke. More effective that way...


Nah, the effectiveness is apparent in your reply. Poster worked lol. 

Your right. No one believes my story. At least the skeptics dont. Im only aware of one person on here that does. I remember Eye talking about these untapped human abilities but I dont know what he has to say about it. I know none of you will believe my story, Im not trying to get people to believe my story, yet Im lying and trying to get people to believe? Doesnt really make a lot of sense, Tyler. I mentioned my story once with little enthusiasm then I got hounded by all of you guys asking for explanations even though you knew no matter what I said you would think its bullshit. Which Im completely ok with. 

Never got a reply from my friend yet, but yes, you are probably right that he will decline like last time, destroying the whole credibility of my story, OH NO! lol Believe what you want man. I got nothing to prove, but I wont ignore the constant questioning I am getting over these experiences.


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## Zaehet Strife (Nov 4, 2012)

No one believes you CWE. And we all are laughing and pointing out flaws in your ridiculous claims (that people have been claiming for centuries, it's not just you) because you are either being deceived, or you are deceiving yourself.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 4, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> No one believes you CWE. And we all are laughing and pointing out flaws in your ridiculous claims (that people have been claiming for centuries, it's not just you) because you are either being deceived, or you are deceiving yourself.


The flaws you pointed out had an answer for them, and Pad agreed with that answer. He would of came to the same conclusion without using simple number or card tests. Im pretty sure those are the only flaws. All you can say is that Im lying or me and everyone I know is being fooled, and I am completely fine with that, I dont care if you believe man lol.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 4, 2012)

HeartlandHank said:


> I'm not saying you don't have this ability... I truly believe anything can happen... just not in an infinite number of ways.... example... i think it is possible to throw an orange through a humans face and come out of the back of the head as a well gin and tonic with a top shelf floater, in a hello kitty mug. For real.
> BUT, it requires a certain set of events to occur... maybe there is multiple ways, or maybe just one. The reason I believe it is possible is because I thought of it. Perhaps it would take all of the effort and resources of man kind, but it could be done. Just like anything we can think of. The pyramids of Giza included.
> 
> My point is, I'm not the "skeptic" sort of guy. I believe proving telepathy in a controlled scientific environment is 100% possible. For sure.
> ...


I can only see bad things happening from that though. He would get global recognition and people would want to know how he is able to do this. He will tell them that we all have the tools to do it and it has to do with spirituality. Most likely everyone would believe him. Unless you are stubbornly holding onto your beliefs and claim that he doesnt know how he is able to do it or that hes lying to us and hes really an atheist with ESP... So people will think he knows the secrets of reality, and probably just as many people will see him as the anti-christ or the devil. People would accept his explanations of everything and those explanations would be threatening to those that are in power, wars can be caused over that shit. The last thing that those who are in power want is for truth to be heard. Even if there wasnt any bad consequences like that, the money and fame would only corrupt his soul. Surely he wasnt sent here to prove ESP and get a million dollars and have a bunch of bling and a pool full of hoe's. Thats stupid. This is a crucial time in Earths history and hes going to play a role in it. Im not expecting you to believe me. How can you? This is quite the fucking story and even if I provide my friends information it still wouldnt be convincing... You guys are asking and I am telling, and thats pretty much all I can do unless you want to take a trip over here and get a dose reality. Believe what you want.


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## Heisenberg (Nov 5, 2012)

For what it's worth I doubt Chiefs friend would be eligible for the test.

"Since April 1, 2007 only those with an already existing media profile and the backing of a reputable academic are allowed to apply for the challenge. The resources freed up by not having to test obscure and possibly mentally ill claimants will then be used to challenge high-profile alleged psychics and mediums such as Sylvia Browne and John Edward with a campaign in the media."

"On March 8, 2011, the JREF announced that qualifications were being altered to open the Challenge to more applicants. Whereas applicants were previously required to submit press clippings and a letter from an academic institution to qualify, the new rules now require applicants to present either press clippings, a letter from an academic institution, or a public video demonstrating their ability."

As for believing Chief, I have no problem believing that a gullible half-wit was fooled into thinking another has psychic powers. We see the sort of observational and thinking skills the Chief applies, and much smarter and much more educated people than him get fooled everyday, often by cheap carnie tricks.

However this last post convinces me he is lying by the sheer stupidity of his words. lets have a look...




Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I can only see bad things happening from that though. He would get global recognition and people would want to know how he is able to do this. He will tell them that we all have the tools to do it and it has to do with spirituality. Most likely everyone would believe him. Unless you are stubbornly holding onto your beliefs and claim that he doesnt know how he is able to do it or that hes lying to us and hes really an atheist with ESP... So people will think he knows the secrets of reality, and probably just as many people will see him as the anti-christ or the devil. People would accept his explanations of everything and those explanations would be threatening to those that are in power, wars can be caused over that shit. The last thing that those who are in power want is for truth to be heard.


Millions of people believe thoroughly in Sylvia Browne and John Edwards, who indeed tell people that spirituality gives them the tools to talk to dead people and gain truth. Dozens of these believers are in government, yet no one is going to war over them being the Anti-Christ. The reason is that no psychic has ever revealed any truth or secrets the government finds threatening. I would also hate to think that someone who knows 'the secrets of reality' would have trouble out maneuvering the government. It seems these powers are more of a handicap than an advantage.

For every person in power who does not want 'the truth to be heard', there is another person in power and would love for the truth to be heard. You don't think China or Iran would love to expose some truths about the US? You don't think G.W would have liked to find Bin Laden? You are now not only asking us to believe some dude has powers, you want us to believe there is a global conspiracy to squash these powers. World cooperation where none exists otherwise.



> Even if there wasnt any bad consequences like that, the money and fame would only corrupt his soul. Surely he wasnt sent here to prove ESP and get a million dollars and have a bunch of bling and a pool full of hoe's. Thats stupid. This is a crucial time in Earths history and hes going to play a role in it. Im not expecting you to believe me. How can you? This is quite the fucking story and even if I provide my friends information it still wouldnt be convincing... You guys are asking and I am telling, and thats pretty much all I can do unless you want to take a trip over here and get a dose reality. Believe what you want.


So this friend who has figured out the secrets of reality would be corrupted by money and fame? Hes such an old soul yet would be tempted by bling and hoes? How spiritual can he be if he has not learned to forgo earthly possessions? If all it would take to derail this crucial player in earth history is a measly million dollars, then why wouldn't governments simply pay him off rather than start wars? What is stopping your friend from donating the money to a worthy charity, thus strengthening his character instead of corrupting it? A million dollars would feed a lot of starving children, seems rather selfish of your friend to deny them food. For all the spiritual insight and secrets your friend knows, you describe him as a rather shallow and fragile soul. You don't have much faith in him apparently.

It seems you thought about these statements only long enough to perceive that they back you up, but not long enough to tell if they make sense. Typical of your standards. Virtually everything you say is a contradiction. Your words are riddled with inconsistencies. We find contradiction and inconsistency when people are lying.

This is what the Cheif always brings us, half baked fantasies of a kid who wants to feel special but is unable to think clearly and honestly. He falls for his own bullshit. He spends time nearly every day posting here, yet he claims it is a 'shit show', apparently one he enjoys. He has been telling us about his friend for months and is even willing to hook us up on Facebook yet he doesn't care at all if you believe him or not.

I am becoming more convinced that the Chief is either incredibly stupid or mentally ill. Either way exchanges with him are beginning to feel like poking a caged retard with a stick - not fair. Too bad the discovery institute is not offering a million dollars to disprove creationism. Chief is all the evidence we would need to falsify intelligent design.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 5, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> For what it's worth I doubt Chiefs friend would be eligible for the test.
> 
> "Since April 1, 2007 only those with an already existing media profile and the backing of a reputable academic are allowed to apply for the challenge. The resources freed up by not having to test obscure and possibly mentally ill claimants will then be used to challenge high-profile alleged psychics and mediums such as Sylvia Browne and John Edward with a campaign in the media."
> 
> ...


LOL I was wondering when you'd chime in and hop on your stool to preach to your people, and you did not disappoint. 

Millions of people also think those people are talking out of their ass because its easy to fool people the way they do. A bit of background research and bam, your a medium. These things cant be scientifically proven because they think its foolish to even try to prove them wrong because they are obviously con artists. In this case it can be scientifically proven. Consistent results would be made and it would be obvious that something not 'natural' is happening here, and thats only with his ESP. But like I said, his brain would be scanned and there would be activity in his pineal gland and other central systems of the brain, nothing would be seen coming or going, and the scientists would side with the 'natural' explanation no matter what explanation my friend gives. He would have a lot more credibility behind him and he would have A LOT more attention than some hillbillies on a TV show (Love your desperate comparison). He would be world famous. His verified abilities and his explanations would be threatening governments and religion, how would they not? His abilities would be confirmed professionally but were not supposed to believe how he got these abilities just because you have a grudge with magical thinking? He would explain everything, probably talk some shit about how evil a lot of religions are, and talk about how corrupted and evil governments are. With his scientifically proven abilities, he'd get attention from religious extremists because hes against their religion so they would label him as evil. Did I read you right when you said theres just as many people in government who want the truth out there? Are you fucking kidding me Heis? That is ridiculous. You dont even need to include conspiracy shit to know that the government is not there to help the people. From a person who is passionate about pointing out delusions in people, that is a hilarious statement from you. This kinda of information would give people power and the ability to look past this brain dead consumer culture that is praised so much. 

OF COURSE hes a fragile MIND. Hes a human being like everyone else. He was sent here to learn and experience like everyone else was. He makes stupid mistakes and learns form them just like everyone else. Were you expecting him to be like Jesus? Our souls are old but we are still mostly lost in this reality because we are limited to our physical mind. Not that any of this is relevant to you because you think its bullshit as well, just trying to point out another one of your desperate attempts to humiliate me. 

I dont care if you believe me or not, but you guys keep asking and I keep answering, even though you know you wont believe anything I say. 

If your caged retard comparison was even somewhat true, the kid poking the retard is some fucked in the head problem child who enjoys killing cute little critters. Also you are still actively engaging me and you will continue to actively engage me even though you think Im retarded, good job Heis. I think thats mostly to do with your egomaniac 'protector of truth and reason' mentality that you have. That and your angry that you have no voice, or purpose Im guessing, in the real world so you think you are doing a service to humanity here by spreading awareness to the things that you are overly biased and passionate about. You are the bat-shit-crazy bible thumpin hate monger of science and skepticism and you do no justice to those things you hold so dearly. You have a obvious dogmatic agenda that has yet to attract anyone that has a different view because they see the bullshit right away. Thank god for the internet because I think some serious psychological problems would arise if you didnt have some kinda of stress relief in this world that you have no power in.


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## Heisenberg (Nov 5, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> LOL I was wondering when you'd chime in and hop on your stool to preach to your people, and you did not disappoint.
> 
> Millions of people also think those people are talking out of their ass because its easy to fool people the way they do. A bit of background research and bam, your a medium. These things cant be scientifically proven because they think its foolish to even try to prove them wrong because they are obviously con artists. In this case it can be scientifically proven. Consistent results would be made and it would be obvious that something not 'natural' is happening here, and thats only with his ESP. But like I said, his brain would be scanned and there would be activity in his pineal gland and other central systems of the brain, nothing would be seen coming or going, and the scientists would side with the 'natural' explanation no matter what explanation my friend gives. He would have a lot more credibility behind him and he would have A LOT more attention than some hillbillies on a TV show (Love your desperate comparison). He would be world famous. His verified abilities and his explanations would be threatening governments and religion, how would they not? His abilities would be confirmed professionally but were not supposed to believe how he got these abilities just because you have a grudge with magical thinking? He would explain everything, probably talk some shit about how evil a lot of religions are, and talk about how corrupted and evil governments are. With his scientifically proven abilities, he'd get attention from religious extremists because hes against their religion so they would label him as evil. Did I read you right when you said theres just as many people in government who want the truth out there? Are you fucking kidding me Heis? That is ridiculous. You dont even need to include conspiracy shit to know that the government is not there to help the people. From a person who is passionate about pointing out delusions in people, that is a hilarious statement from you. This kinda of information would give people power and the ability to look past this brain dead consumer culture that is praised so much.
> 
> ...


Wow, toooo looong, wont bother. Thankfully you have set the standard that we don't have to read each other's posts if we don't feel like it.

Wonder how many others are OK with skipping your posts these days?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 5, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> Wow, toooo looong, wont bother. Thankfully you have set the standard that we don't have to read each other's posts if we don't feel like it.
> 
> Wonder how many others are OK with skipping your posts these days?


As long as you see the pretty picture, its all good


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## Heisenberg (Nov 5, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> As long as you see the pretty picture, its all good


No worries, I didn't miss that. Chief gets a point, jolly good job!


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 5, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> No worries, I didn't miss that. Chief gets a point, jolly good job!


Weeooo! I'll add the one you verified to the ones I made lol


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## Zaehet Strife (Nov 5, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> So this friend who has figured out the secrets of reality would be corrupted by money and fame? Hes such an old soul yet would be tempted by bling and hoes? How spiritual can he be if he has not learned to forgo earthly possessions? If all it would take to derail this crucial player in earth history is a measly million dollars, then why wouldn't governments simply pay him off rather than start wars? What is stopping your friend from donating the money to a worthy charity, thus strengthening his character instead of corrupting it? A million dollars would feed a lot of starving children, seems rather selfish of your friend to deny them food. For all the spiritual insight and secrets your friend knows, you describe him as a rather shallow and fragile soul. You don't have much faith in him apparently.
> 
> It seems you thought about these statements only long enough to perceive that they back you up, but not long enough to tell if they make sense. Typical of your standards. Virtually everything you say is a contradiction. Your words are riddled with inconsistencies. We find contradiction and inconsistency when people are lying.
> 
> ...


Thought this should be said again. 


No way! You skipped his post too? I think im going to make this a guilty pleasure of mine from now on. Sorry CWE, you posts will officially be skipped until i read another post, from someone else, that claims you have gained some sort of sense. Would rather not waste my time or energy to feed his attention seeking behavior.


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## cannabineer (Nov 5, 2012)

You guys. If you re-read with _care_, a valuable hint about next month's lotto is buried in there. cn


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## guy incognito (Nov 5, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> You guys. If you re-read with _care_, a valuable hint about next month's lotto is buried in there. cn


Unless you look for it and try to verify it, then it probably won't work.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hey Chief, Phillip Coppens is going on Joe Rogans podcast today at 3pm PST, here's the link to it;

http://www.ustream.tv/joerogan

He's one of the proponents of ancient alien theory and has been on the series before


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## tyler.durden (Nov 5, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> For what it's worth I doubt Chiefs friend would be eligible for the test.
> 
> "Since April 1, 2007 only those with an already existing media profile and the backing of a reputable academic are allowed to apply for the challenge. The resources freed up by not having to test obscure and possibly mentally ill claimants will then be used to challenge high-profile alleged psychics and mediums such as Sylvia Browne and John Edward with a campaign in the media."
> 
> ...


*Cough*  - Game, set, match. I'll keep my retard-pokin' stick handy in case the critter tries to get into the science, reason, and fact jars again. Can't have him contaminating those. How's it going setting up the FB chat, CWE? Nothing yet? Be sure to keep us posted, I'll hold my breath starting... now...


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## Hal Incandenza (Nov 5, 2012)

WeedPublican said:


> The truth of how civilization started, you'll be glad you came across this....
> 
> 
> [video=youtube;uAm-kbzT7xw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAm-kbzT7xw[/video]


Thanks, I needed a laugh.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 5, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Hey Chief, Phillip Coppens is going on Joe Rogans podcast today at 3pm PST, here's the link to it;
> 
> http://www.ustream.tv/joerogan
> 
> He's one of the proponents of ancient alien theory and has been on the series before


Dope! Btw, was the last aliens podcast rough to watch for you? lol


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 5, 2012)

Btw Pad. He did decline. BUT I asked my other friend if hes willing to talk and he is slightly more humble. The friend that I talk about calls this guy 'master', not because hes his master, he just knows more shit. I only mentioned my other friend a few times because I only met him a couple times. He didnt seem all that comfortable with me thinking 'hi' the first time we met lol. Keep holding Tyler!


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 5, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Dope! Btw, was the last aliens podcast rough to watch for you? lol


If you're referring to Giorgio A. Tsoukalos, yes, it was pretty tough to watch, that dude seems completely disconnected from reality, imo

This one was a little easier as Coppens seems much more informed about what he's talking about, but he still made a ton of assumptions based on unsubstantiated claims, Rogan eats that shit up, the more I hear his opinions about the subject the more I put him into the category with Tsoukalos. 



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Btw Pad. He did decline. BUT I asked my other friend if hes willing to talk and he is slightly more humble. The friend that I talk about calls this guy 'master', not because hes his master, he just knows more shit. I only mentioned my other friend a few times because I only met him a couple times. He didnt seem all that comfortable with me thinking 'hi' the first time we met lol. Keep holding Tyler!


What was his reason for declining?

OK, I'll ask him a few questions if he accepts, but to tell you the truth I doubt it will actually answer much


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 5, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> If you're referring to Giorgio A. Tsoukalos, yes, it was pretty tough to watch, that dude seems completely disconnected from reality, imo
> 
> This one was a little easier as Coppens seems much more informed about what he's talking about, but he still made a ton of assumptions based on unsubstantiated claims, Rogan eats that shit up, the more I hear his opinions about the subject the more I put him into the category with Tsoukalos.
> 
> ...


Im not familiar with Coppens. I probably did see him speak in the two Ancient Aliens episodes that I watched but I dont know. 

He didnt say his reason. He just laughed and said no. Perhaps he thought you had intentions to start an argument and mock him, I dunno. I made your intentions clear when i asked my other friend though. 

He may seem illiterate like your typical gangster through text but he is not as 'hood' in real life and is actually quite understandable and respectable. The G is apparent in him because he likes rappers and songs like this lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77Hmf5R0P64


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 5, 2012)

Why do you doubt he will answer much? As in he will refuse to answer or the answers he gives will not satisfy you?


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## guy incognito (Nov 5, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Why do you doubt he will answer much? As in he will refuse to answer or the answers he gives will not satisfy you?


Because what you are claiming he can do has never ever been done by anyone. It will literally be the first and only case.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 5, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Why do you doubt he will answer much? As in he will refuse to answer or the answers he gives will not satisfy you?


Just because the most it could amount to is the same issues we have with your testimony. Hearsay. I'd have to talk to the source directly to get any actual answers.


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## Zaehet Strife (Nov 5, 2012)

Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so.

Whenever you find yourself getting angry about a difference of opinion, be on your guard; you will probably find, on examination, that your belief is going beyond what the evidence warrants.


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## tyler.durden (Nov 5, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Just because the most it could amount to is the same issues we have with your testimony. Hearsay. _*I'd have to talk to the source directly to get any actual answers.*_


Neo felt the same way. Pad, you may be The One................................................................

[video=youtube;DX3qLIwHoUo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX3qLIwHoUo[/video]

P.S. Can you tell I recently pirated and re-watched this trilogy? Great while baked...


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 5, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Neo felt the same way. Pad, you may be The One................................................................
> 
> [video=youtube;DX3qLIwHoUo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX3qLIwHoUo[/video]
> 
> P.S. Can you tell I recently pirated and re-watched this trilogy? Great while baked...


One of my all time favorites, hands down! 

Just about everything about it is perfect, it revolutionized the entertainment industry!

The parallels between Christianity and The Matrix are genius! And the elevator scene in the first one almost made me [youtube]VLnWf1sQkjY[/youtube]


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 5, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Just because the most it could amount to is the same issues we have with your testimony. Hearsay. I'd have to talk to the source directly to get any actual answers.


I've gathered information from other people and never really experienced what I am talking about first hand? I dont get it. 

He is one of the sources. There is two people.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 5, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I've gathered information from other people and never really experienced what I am talking about first hand? I dont get it.
> 
> He is one of the sources. There is two people.


Are you talking about your friend with the gift directly or the other guy, like you, whose experienced the same thing you have? 

I'd need to speak to the source, the guy with the gift, directly in order to establish any kind of legitimate data. If I spoke to the other guy, the guy who experienced the same thing you did, the results would be the same as with you, there's just no way to verify anything through the third party, though I don't think it would be completely in vain..


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 6, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Are you talking about your friend with the gift directly or the other guy, like you, whose experienced the same thing you have?
> 
> I'd need to speak to the source, the guy with the gift, directly in order to establish any kind of legitimate data. If I spoke to the other guy, the guy who experienced the same thing you did, the results would be the same as with you, there's just no way to verify anything through the third party, though I don't think it would be completely in vain..


They both have the 'gift'. I think I made that clear every time I mentioned the other guy, which is only a few times so I dont blame you for not remembering.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 6, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> They both have the 'gift'. I think I made that clear every time I mentioned the other guy, which is only a few times so I dont blame you for not remembering.



They both have the gift of reading minds? If that's the case, and he's willing to answer questions, then I'd be happy to engage with him, no hostility, I promise.

I was under the impression you only had one friend who had this ability.


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## tyler.durden (Nov 6, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> They both have the gift of reading minds? If that's the case, and he's willing to answer questions, then I'd be happy to engage with him, no hostility, I promise.
> 
> I was under the impression you only had one friend who had this ability.


That is incorrect. He has _no_ friends that have this ability...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 6, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> That is incorrect. He has _no_ friends that have this ability...


Yes, because Im trying SO hard to get everyone to believe my lie even though I know no matter what I say no one will believe me. I could provide both their information (under their consent) to Pad, get some other friends to confirm what I am talking about, and there would still be disbelief. BUT Im still trying, for reasons I do not know... Great logic Tyler lol


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## guy incognito (Nov 6, 2012)

It's a conspiracy. You do everything short of providing actual evidence, and they still don't believe you!


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 7, 2012)

What evidence is there when we are separated by a few thousand miles? lol Best I can do is get one of them to agree to have a chat, but I dont think thats gunna happen. That wouldnt of proved anything to you guys anyways. Is there any spiritual explanation from my friends that you wouldnt laugh at? You guys are hounding me and Im just feeding the hounds unsatisfiable hunger. You could just say "Bullshit" and call it a day and I'll be like "Cool, man". But instead I get "Bullshit! what about this? what about that? I think this about that therefore that is bullshit!". You guys ask, I answer.

Pretty much the only evidence there is to be had is a personal experience by a skeptic you trust. Tyler brought up the idea about gathering some money from those willing to pay and send Pad here for an educational field trip, but Im assuming you guys are thinking that Im setting up the most epic troll prank to send Pad across the boarder for nothing. Im not that kinda guy but even if I was, BC is fucking beautiful and he'd love it lol. I'd agree to any punishment if I was just trolling and sent Pad here for nothing, Im sure you guys could think of something better than banning me from RIU. This is REALLY getting old though. If I shown Pad my spiritual friends and my other group of friends that also experienced their abilities, that still wouldnt be proving anything. You'd just make a mockery about the spiritual explanations and what all my friends had to say. So really there are two options. Say "Bullshit" and move on without questions, or start up a fundraiser to change Pads life.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 7, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> What evidence is there when we are separated by a few thousand miles? lol Best I can do is get one of them to agree to have a chat, but I dont think thats gunna happen. That wouldnt of proved anything to you guys anyways. Is there any spiritual explanation from my friends that you wouldnt laugh at? You guys are hounding me and Im just feeding the hounds unsatisfiable hunger. You could just say "Bullshit" and call it a day and I'll be like "Cool, man". But instead I get "Bullshit! what about this? what about that? I think this about that therefore that is bullshit!". You guys ask, I answer.
> 
> Pretty much the only evidence there is to be had is a personal experience by a skeptic you trust. Tyler brought up the idea about gathering some money from those willing to pay and send Pad here for an educational field trip, but Im assuming you guys are thinking that Im setting up the most epic troll prank to send Pad across the boarder for nothing. Im not that kinda guy but even if I was, BC is fucking beautiful and he'd love it lol. I'd agree to any punishment if I was just trolling and sent Pad here for nothing, Im sure you guys could think of something better than banning me from RIU. This is REALLY getting old though. If I shown Pad my spiritual friends and my other group of friends that also experienced their abilities, that still wouldnt be proving anything. You'd just make a mockery about the spiritual explanations and what all my friends had to say. So really there are two options. Say "Bullshit" and move on without questions, or start up a fundraiser to change Pads life.


I'm 100% down for it, I just set up a paypal account, just waiting for it to be approved, it will probably take a couple days.. 

I'd like to know who is interested in this, who would donate to the cause? I'm not asking for it, don't expect it, and would never hold any of you against it for not donating anything. Just interested in figuring a realistic number. 

Also, to Chief, who would you want to come with me out of TD, mindphuk, Z, guyincognito, Heisenberg, or any of the other skeptics? 

And to any of the skeptics, who would want to join me in such a venture if possible? 

I would record everything, and edit the footage to put online in a documentary style clip for all you guys to see, completely free, for entertainment and educational purposes. 

Who knows, I'd even be down for a road trip of sorts if the flight is out of the question.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 7, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I'm 100% down for it, I just set up a paypal account, just waiting for it to be approved, it will probably take a couple days..
> 
> I'd like to know who is interested in this, who would donate to the cause? I'm not asking for it, don't expect it, and would never hold any of you against it for not donating anything. Just interested in figuring a realistic number.
> 
> ...


Wow, things are moving quickly lol. Shouldnt start collecting money yet though, I havent even mentioned this to my friends. Im REALLY hoping they are down for it because your lookin to get some serious exposure on this. 

Hmm, I guess Z would be a good choice since hes one of the younger guys. Wouldnt feel too out of place with us 18-21 year olds. It would be a good time. beers, doobies and maybe some shrooms later to amplify the experience, after the sober tests of course.


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## tyler.durden (Nov 7, 2012)

I'm down for a donation, let me know how it goes...


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## tyler.durden (Nov 7, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Wow, things are moving quickly lol. Shouldnt start collecting money yet though, I havent even mentioned this to my friends. Im REALLY hoping they are down for it because your lookin to get some serious exposure on this.
> 
> Hmm, I guess Z would be a good choice since hes one of the younger guys. Wouldnt feel too out of place with us 18-21 year olds. It would be a good time. beers, doobies and maybe some shrooms later to amplify the experience, after the sober tests of course.


I think the best chance for a supernatural experience would be after the beers, doobies and shrooms


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## guy incognito (Nov 7, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> What evidence is there when we are separated by a few thousand miles? lol Best I can do is get one of them to agree to have a chat, but I dont think thats gunna happen. That wouldnt of proved anything to you guys anyways. Is there any spiritual explanation from my friends that you wouldnt laugh at? You guys are hounding me and Im just feeding the hounds unsatisfiable hunger. You could just say "Bullshit" and call it a day and I'll be like "Cool, man". But instead I get "Bullshit! what about this? what about that? I think this about that therefore that is bullshit!". You guys ask, I answer.
> 
> Pretty much the only evidence there is to be had is a personal experience by a skeptic you trust. Tyler brought up the idea about gathering some money from those willing to pay and send Pad here for an educational field trip, but Im assuming you guys are thinking that Im setting up the most epic troll prank to send Pad across the boarder for nothing. Im not that kinda guy but even if I was, BC is fucking beautiful and he'd love it lol. I'd agree to any punishment if I was just trolling and sent Pad here for nothing, Im sure you guys could think of something better than banning me from RIU. This is REALLY getting old though. If I shown Pad my spiritual friends and my other group of friends that also experienced their abilities, that still wouldnt be proving anything. You'd just make a mockery about the spiritual explanations and what all my friends had to say. So really there are two options. Say "Bullshit" and move on without questions, or start up a fundraiser to change Pads life.


It's because we need to know. Because no one in history has ever had these abilities you claim despite millions of people making these claims. Not one person EVER.

Imagine this scenario:

Guy incognito: Hey guys, I just discovered cold fusion.
everybody: OMG that is so cool! This is going to solve the energy crisis! This is one of the biggest discoveries in history! How does it work?
gi: Oh I don't know how it works, I can't explain, but I have experienced it first hand.
eb: Uh, really? Can we observe it for ourselves?
gi: Probably not. It's my friend really and he probably won't agree to this. But maybe.
eb: So then how do we verify what you are saying is true?
gi: Y'all just be hating on me. No matter how much unverifiable and untestable statements I make, no matter how much special pleading I partake in, you guys won't believe me.
eb: Correct, we need actual evidence. This is the same standard we hold everybody else, and everything to.

There is more than just a personal experience from a skeptic I trust; In fact that would not really be acceptable. Pad or Heis's word alone is not enough to convince me. They could potentially lie. They could also make a mistake or be deceived by your friend. I want it to be an actual controlled experiment that can clearly demonstrate this ability while ruling out cheating, interference (intentional or not), or other bias. The only reason to object to controlled testing is because you know it will fail. If it is true then it should be easily demonstratable and repeatable.


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## mindphuk (Nov 7, 2012)

Funny, CWE once again figures out a way to avoid answering the objections put to him regarding pyramids and instead focuses on his imaginary friend, changing the topic and not responding to the arguments from actual Egyptian researchers.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 7, 2012)

guy incognito said:


> It's because we need to know. Because no one in history has ever had these abilities you claim despite millions of people making these claims. Not one person EVER.
> 
> Imagine this scenario:
> 
> ...


I have partially explained how it works. Everyone has the tools to do it and we are obliviously doing it sometimes but we simply dismiss it as coincidence. Your thoughts are not confined to your own head, they are constantly streaming out like clouds or strings , my friend wouldnt be inside your head reading your mind but instead just sitting there and receiving the thoughts that include him. If his brain was scanned during the thought receiving there would only be brain activity in the pineal gland and other central organs. There would be absolutely no way to detect the thoughts that are coming or going because they are of the soul, which is impossible to detect. 

I am confident no matter what the test. But the thought of doing 52 card tests and number tests just annoys me. Why jump through hoops when you can get straight to the point with one or two questions from Pad? Perhaps my friend could try reciting what Pad thinks word-for-word, taking out the stuff that Pad doesnt want people to here, because the mind is quite chaotic, especially when you know someone is reading it.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 7, 2012)

This is quite the big deal though so I'll have to try and convince them in person. Hopefully I will chill with them this weekend.


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## WeedPublican (Nov 7, 2012)

Hal Incandenza said:


> Thanks, I needed a laugh.



Ignorance. SMH


----------



## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 7, 2012)

Cant blame them man. I love the series and even I thought this story was outrageous, but it is very entertaining for sure. I do believe some crazy shit like that happened though, I believe it is at least a half truth, which is still amazing.


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## mindphuk (Nov 7, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I have partially explained how it works. Everyone has the tools to do it and we are obliviously doing it sometimes but we simply dismiss it as coincidence. Your thoughts are not confined to your own head, they are constantly streaming out like clouds or strings , my friend wouldnt be inside your head reading your mind but instead just sitting there and receiving the thoughts that include him. If his brain was scanned during the thought receiving *there would only be brain activity in the pineal gland and other central organs. There would be absolutely no way to detect the thoughts that are coming or going because they are of the soul, which is impossible to detect.*


How do you actually _know _these things? 
If he hasn't and won't submit to testing, then there is no way to say these things are undetectable. 


> I am confident no matter what the test. But the thought of doing 52 card tests and number tests just annoys me. Why jump through hoops when you can get straight to the point with one or two questions from Pad? Perhaps my friend could try reciting what Pad thinks word-for-word, taking out the stuff that Pad doesnt want people to here, because the mind is quite chaotic, especially when you know someone is reading it.


The reasons are control, simplicity, consistency, verification and repeatability. Stream of consciousness thoughts can be, as you say, chaotic. There would be no one except the sender to verify anything. A consistently high score using playing cards, Rhine-Zenner cards, random number generator, or other such test, not only should be a piece of cake to do because of the simple thought that is being 'sent' but can be compared to chance results and other so-called gifted individuals. If he cannot pass a simple test using playing cards, then anything else becomes suspect, including NLP, hypnosis, cold-reading etc. We have been trying to tell you for months now how fallible our brains, especially our memories are. While Pad's personal experience as a skeptic and his recollection may be interesting, no one can dismiss other mechanisms rather than supposed thought transfer. It is amazing that we can we keep explaining why personal testimony is insufficient evidence and you still don't seem to understand why.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 7, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> How do you actually _know _these things?
> If he hasn't and won't submit to testing, then there is no way to say these things are undetectable.
> The reasons are control, simplicity, consistency, verification and repeatability. Stream of consciousness thoughts can be, as you say, chaotic. There would be no one except the sender to verify anything. A consistently high score using playing cards, Rhine-Zenner cards, random number generator, or other such test, not only should be a piece of cake to do because of the simple thought that is being 'sent' but can be compared to chance results and other so-called gifted individuals. If he cannot pass a simple test using playing cards, then anything else becomes suspect, including NLP, hypnosis, cold-reading etc. We have been trying to tell you for months now how fallible our brains, especially our memories are. While Pad's personal experience as a skeptic and his recollection may be interesting, no one can dismiss other mechanisms rather than supposed thought transfer. It is amazing that we can we keep explaining why personal testimony is insufficient evidence and you still don't seem to understand why.


My friend receives thoughts, he does not go inside someones head to read their thoughts, the thoughts come to him. So thoughts are constantly flowing outside of our heads and nothing in history has ever been able to detect them, just like souls. If you disagree then I guess your options are that he doesnt understand how he is able to do this or he is lying to us. 

The same consistent results can be made without those simple repetitive games, and Pad agrees with that. Pad could be in complete silence while thinking of specific questions that require detailed answers and my friend would answer every single question in detail. I also think that way is much more interesting and entertaining as well, since Pad plans to make a video documentary of this, Im sure my friend would also throw a few mind blowing curve balls at Pad just to spice things up.

I understand completely about your stance on the fallible mind and personal testimony, I just think its silly to fall back on that excuse with every single personal experience that you hear about, it implies that there must be something wrong and that there just has to be a non-magical explanation to everything no matter what. In this case, I do not take your fallible mind argument seriously because no matter what the situation or circumstance, the result is always the same, no matter what person experiences it.


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## mindphuk (Nov 7, 2012)

[video=youtube;If_9j7A8sEg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If_9j7A8sEg[/video]


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 7, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> [video=youtube;If_9j7A8sEg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If_9j7A8sEg[/video]


That girl on the right was so annoying, she went full retard at the end lol.


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## mindphuk (Nov 7, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> My friend receives thoughts, he does not go inside someones head to read their thoughts, the thoughts come to him. So thoughts are constantly flowing outside of our heads and nothing in history has ever been able to detect them, just like souls. If you disagree then I guess your options are that he doesnt understand how he is able to do this or he is lying to us.


If I was picking up people's thoughts, there is no real way for me to determine if these are thoughts still in the head or have somehow 'escaped' the confines of the brain as you suggest. So, again, we are back to asking how you know. You might suspect, you might hypothesize, but you seem pretty damn sure that people can pick up stray thoughts but we cannot make actual technology to replicate that and, even if I believed anyone could read thoughts, to claim to know exactly what is being done and that it is outside the scope of scientific inquiry is a claim that I don't believe anyone can make. 


> The same consistent results can be made without those simple repetitive games, and Pad agrees with that.


I doubt he agrees. However, consistency was ONE of many reasons we favor tests with controls, and there is absolutely no consistency to random thoughts. 


> Pad could be in complete silence while thinking of specific questions that require detailed answers and my friend would answer every single question in detail. I also think that way is much more interesting and entertaining as well, since Pad plans to make a video documentary of this, Im sure my friend would also throw a few mind blowing curve balls at Pad just to spice things up.


How are we, who are not there, know what Pad was thinking? Where is the verification? 



> I understand completely about your stance on the fallible mind and personal testimony, I just think its silly to fall back on that excuse with every single personal experience that you hear about, it implies that there must be something wrong and that there just has to be a non-magical explanation to everything no matter what. In this case, I do not take your fallible mind argument seriously because no matter what the situation or circumstance, the result is always the same, no matter what person experiences it.


You don't completely understand it if you wish to disregard it for some situations. Special pleading isn't going to make alternative explanations disappear. Yes, every single personal experience is worthless to convince someone that hasn't had that experience, more so when those experiences appear to break the laws of physics as we know them. If 10 people in NYC told me they saw Regis Philbin on the subway, I don't think I would spend much time doubting their claim, even though they all could have been duped by a look-a-like. However, when multiple people claim to see aliens or ghosts or can read minds, those claims are worthy of examination and in all of history, there has never been a verifiable, repeatable, confirmed instance of ANY of those things so yes, I am going to remain skeptical no matter how many people think they have had their minds read until it has been put to some controlled tests.


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## mindphuk (Nov 7, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> That girl on the right was so annoying, she went full retard at the end lol.


Do you at least see the point? Here is someone that thinks someone read her mind and it was just a trick.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 8, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> If I was picking up people's thoughts, there is no real way for me to determine if these are thoughts still in the head or have somehow 'escaped' the confines of the brain as you suggest. So, again, we are back to asking how you know. You might suspect, you might hypothesize, but you seem pretty damn sure that people can pick up stray thoughts but we cannot make actual technology to replicate that and, even if I believed anyone could read thoughts, to claim to know exactly what is being done and that it is outside the scope of scientific inquiry is a claim that I don't believe anyone can make.
> I doubt he agrees. However, consistency was ONE of many reasons we favor tests with controls, and there is absolutely no consistency to random thoughts.
> How are we, who are not there, know what Pad was thinking? Where is the verification?
> 
> You don't completely understand it if you wish to disregard it for some situations. Special pleading isn't going to make alternative explanations disappear. Yes, every single personal experience is worthless to convince someone that hasn't had that experience, more so when those experiences appear to break the laws of physics as we know them. If 10 people in NYC told me they saw Regis Philbin on the subway, I don't think I would spend much time doubting their claim, even though they all could have been duped by a look-a-like. However, when multiple people claim to see aliens or ghosts or can read minds, those claims are worthy of examination and in all of history, there has never been a verifiable, repeatable, confirmed instance of ANY of those things so yes, I am going to remain skeptical no matter how many people think they have had their minds read until it has been put to some controlled tests.


Exactly. Are you certain that those thoughts you are thinking are your own? Its a little mind boggling to think about but I think its safe to say that a lot of our thoughts are our own. I imagine my friend deciphers his thoughts from others because the voice in his head changes and hes able to tell that what he is receiving is not at all his thought process. Its a much more direct connection than when we sometimes receive thoughts. 

You are correct. We cant make technology to detect thoughts. So scientifically you would never get passed a hypothesis when trying to figure out how this is happening. I know because my friend doesnt need to be concentrating on anything in order to receive thoughts. It is completely effortless for him, he finds it more difficult to stop receiving thoughts. Even if it was him going inside someones mind and reading their thoughts, there is something coming and going. OR perhaps thoughts travel to him like sub atomic particles jumping from one place to another without ever occupying the space in between, just thought about that possibility. Either way, it is a transfer of information and that information travels somehow. If hes inside someones head or if hes just receiving thoughts, theres information traveling and being transferred from one to the other. Something is going in and coming back, and that cannot be detected.

Re-read the conversation. I said if he thought of a specific question and my friend answered it in great detail, and answered another one, and another one, and then recited a personal experience that Pad was thinking about, Pad would be convinced. But I guess you think Pad might lie about what hes thinking for some reason and hes just playing along in this huge game Im supposedly playing. You have to agree that Pad knows a lot better than to do that because he has a lot of reputation, respect, and credibility on this forum. Why would he all of the sudden just fake everything and make everyone believe in the 'supernatural', do you not trust Pads word? I do see where you are coming from though. I'd imagine we could do a short card test at the start just to get things rolling. 

Im not special pleading. Im not saying you should take every amazing claim seriously, Im just saying that to think every 'supernatural' experience must be a mistake of a fallible mind is ridiculous.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 8, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Exactly. Are you certain that those thoughts you are thinking are your own? Its a little mind boggling to think about but I think its safe to say that a lot of our thoughts are our own. I imagine my friend deciphers his thoughts from others because the voice in his head changes and hes able to tell that what he is receiving is not at all his thought process. Its a much more direct connection than when we sometimes receive thoughts.
> 
> You are correct. We cant make technology to detect thoughts. So scientifically you would never get passed a hypothesis when trying to figure out how this is happening. I know because my friend doesnt need to be concentrating on anything in order to receive thoughts. It is completely effortless for him, he finds it more difficult to stop receiving thoughts. Even if it was him going inside someones mind and reading their thoughts, there is something coming and going. OR perhaps thoughts travel to him like sub atomic particles jumping from one place to another without ever occupying the space in between, just thought about that possibility. Either way, it is a transfer of information and that information travels somehow. If hes inside someones head or if hes just receiving thoughts, theres information traveling and being transferred from one to the other. Something is going in and coming back, and that cannot be detected.
> 
> ...


This is where your reasoning seems to be flawed. You must understand, in science, anecdotal evidence is *useless*. To MP, to anyone else, what I might experience is completely useless *unless it can be replicated*. 

Trust, reputation, respect.. none of that plays a role in accurate science. Only *results*. 


Could you be inclined to test each subject, on video, without my being there, physically? Perhaps a live podcast type situation, where I provide you with a digital webcam, if you don't already have one, and I send you questions to ask each subject, weather on cam or off (only voice), and they reply accordingly? Maybe we could even log on via podcast and ask them ourselves, me, MP, Z, Heis... they'd just have to be there to answer.. You said they'd like to avoid international fame, what if we signed a non disclosure agreement? Guaranteeing privacy and anonymity? No faces, just voices. Would they be more inclined to do something like that?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 8, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> This is where your reasoning seems to be flawed. You must understand, in science, anecdotal evidence is *useless*. To MP, to anyone else, what I might experience is completely useless *unless it can be replicated*.
> 
> Trust, reputation, respect.. none of that plays a role in accurate science. Only *results*.
> 
> ...


I understand. Some people here might trust you but if someone else seen the video than they would just call bullshit and say everything was planned. A controlled test is needed to get things going. Then we move on to the mind blowing shit lol. 

Long distance wont work. You have to get to know each other first. You need to establish a connection. You need to know this person exists, know what his personality is like, and know who you are sending thoughts to. Digital information from a computer cant establish that kind of connection between you two. 

I dont think anything needs to be signed. Though you guys may be qualified to investigate this matter and confirm it, I dont see it getting major attention, at least not right away. I can see the video getting youtube famous. I can see scientists trying to track us down to confirm these claims, but I dont see things getting out of control.


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## guy incognito (Nov 8, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Exactly. Are you certain that those thoughts you are thinking are your own? Its a little mind boggling to think about but I think its safe to say that a lot of our thoughts are our own. I imagine my friend deciphers his thoughts from others because the voice in his head changes and hes able to tell that what he is receiving is not at all his thought process. Its a much more direct connection than when we sometimes receive thoughts.
> 
> You are correct. We cant make technology to detect thoughts. So scientifically you would never get passed a hypothesis when trying to figure out how this is happening. I know because my friend doesnt need to be concentrating on anything in order to receive thoughts. It is completely effortless for him, he finds it more difficult to stop receiving thoughts. Even if it was him going inside someones mind and reading their thoughts, there is something coming and going. OR perhaps thoughts travel to him like sub atomic particles jumping from one place to another without ever occupying the space in between, just thought about that possibility. Either way, it is a transfer of information and that information travels somehow. If hes inside someones head or if hes just receiving thoughts, theres information traveling and being transferred from one to the other. Something is going in and coming back, and that cannot be detected.
> 
> ...


Why is it ridiculous? There has never been a single documented case of this happening in all of history. Ever. It's ridiculous for you to expect anyone to simply accept it.

That's like me saying you should take harry potter seriously. I mean it's mostly bullshit, but at least one of those claims must be true right? There are so many books and movies with so many little unexplained magical things that defy my understanding of the world. 



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I understand. Some people here might trust you but if someone else seen the video than they would just call bullshit and say everything was planned. A controlled test is needed to get things going. Then we move on to the mind blowing shit lol.
> 
> Long distance wont work. You have to get to know each other first. You need to establish a connection. You need to know this person exists, know what his personality is like, and know who you are sending thoughts to. Digital information from a computer cant establish that kind of connection between you two.
> 
> I dont think anything needs to be signed. Though you guys may be qualified to investigate this matter and confirm it, I dont see it getting major attention, at least not right away. I can see the video getting youtube famous. I can see scientists trying to track us down to confirm these claims, but I dont see things getting out of control.


Are you kidding? You do realize there has never been a confirmed case of this EVER. Like never ever. Through all of history anytime anyone has ever claimed to have this ability they were wrong. When put to a controlled test 100% of people FAIL. That is 100%, as in all, as in never even a single case. If you are telling the truth and are not mistaken then this would easily be one of the greatest and most important findings that humanity has ever discovered. Your friend would easily be the most famous person in the world. He would be the only person in history to have this ability.


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## tyler.durden (Nov 8, 2012)

Heis had a Minchin quote for his siggy for a while - "Throughout history, every mystery ever solved has_ turned out to be... Not Magic_ *...*" This is what people like CWE don't get: They figure out of all the millions or billions of people that have claimed something supernatural, some of them MUST be correct (argumentum ad populum). But as Guy says, not even ONE has EVER been verified. They claim this is the fault of science, rather than the possibility there may not be anything actually there to verify. If they understood cognitive/neuroscience better (or at all), they would understand the way the mind works, and how easy it is to be fooled. I also used to feel that if I was _certain_ about something then it had to be true, after several years of study I can see my certainty doesn't necessarily mean anything in regards to the facts of reality...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 8, 2012)

guy incognito said:


> Why is it ridiculous? There has never been a single documented case of this happening in all of history. Ever. It's ridiculous for you to expect anyone to simply accept it.
> 
> That's like me saying you should take harry potter seriously. I mean it's mostly bullshit, but at least one of those claims must be true right? There are so many books and movies with so many little unexplained magical things that defy my understanding of the world.
> 
> ...


Im not telling you to take these claims seriously, I said that right in the quote you commented on. It is ridiculous to say that everyone of these supernatural experience must be a mistake of a fallible mind, it plays into the absurdity of certainty jibber jabber that Z always talks about. Is it downright impossible that some of these experiences are real and come by chance and circumstance? 

I know it would get a lot of attention but not right away. Pad and whoever would explain their background in skepticism and science but that wont be enough to convince the world because it would only be a video and people will still have their doubts. I can see it getting youtube famous but I dont see how interested scientists would track us down because we wont be using real names and I trust Pad not to reveal the rest of our information. If scientists do track us to to OFFICIALLY confirm these amazing findings than we can still deny their requests because I can only see shit hitting the fan if this got international exposure. That is why I only see this getting youtube famous.


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## Heisenberg (Nov 8, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Im not telling you to take these claims seriously, I said that right in the quote you commented on. *It is ridiculous to say that everyone of these supernatural experience must be a mistake of a fallible mind*, it plays into the absurdity of certainty jibber jabber that Z always talks about. Is it downright impossible that some of these experiences are real and come by chance and circumstance?


This is not what has been said to you. So far in history every investigation has turned out the explanation of hoax, self deception, ect. It is more than reasonable to side with these explanation unless given proper motivation. No one is saying it's impossible, we are saying it's unbelievable at this point. Just like practically everyone in prison says they are innocent, everyone who reads minds says they're the real thing. Every one of those claims that turned out to be false had someone like you backing them up, and while that is in no way an accusation against you, it is also not enough to distinguish your story from the others. 

Extraordinary claims have invariably lead to mundane explanations unless also accompanied by extraordinary evidence. In the absence of extraordinary evidence, it is in no way ridiculous to favor the mundane, it is prudent.


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## mindphuk (Nov 8, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Im not telling you to take these claims seriously, I said that right in the quote you commented on. It is ridiculous to say that everyone of these supernatural experience must be a mistake of a fallible mind, it plays into the absurdity of certainty jibber jabber that Z always talks about. Is it downright impossible that some of these experiences are real and come by chance and circumstance?
> 
> I know it would get a lot of attention but not right away. Pad and whoever would explain their background in skepticism and science but that wont be enough to convince the world because it would only be a video and people will still have their doubts. I can see it getting youtube famous but I dont see how interested scientists would track us down because we wont be using real names and I trust Pad not to reveal the rest of our information. If scientists do track us to to OFFICIALLY confirm these amazing findings than we can still deny their requests because I can only see shit hitting the fan if this got international exposure. That is why I only see this getting youtube famous.


No need for anyone to track us down. If this is for real, we won't have to wait in some obscure youtube limbo. I previously mentioned that I know Banachek. Any testing I do could be considered a preliminary for the official $1 million challenge. Think of all of the good, charities he can donate to with that kind of money. But $1 million is nothing compared to the implications this would have on the world. Everything would change. If "spirtituality" could be verified and demonstrated to have actual interactions with the physical universe, the paradigm shift would be tremendous. This is why some of us think you are acting so incredibly blasé about what you supposedly have experienced. This is not something that many people have dealt with.


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## bubbles6302 (Nov 9, 2012)

Watchin this while really high seems like a good idea  Life changing stuff


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## guy incognito (Nov 9, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Im not telling you to take these claims seriously, I said that right in the quote you commented on. It is ridiculous to say that everyone of these supernatural experience must be a mistake of a fallible mind, it plays into the absurdity of certainty jibber jabber that Z always talks about. Is it downright impossible that some of these experiences are real and come by chance and circumstance?
> 
> I know it would get a lot of attention but not right away. Pad and whoever would explain their background in skepticism and science but that wont be enough to convince the world because it would only be a video and people will still have their doubts. I can see it getting youtube famous but I dont see how interested scientists would track us down because we wont be using real names and I trust Pad not to reveal the rest of our information. If scientists do track us to to OFFICIALLY confirm these amazing findings than we can still deny their requests because I can only see shit hitting the fan if this got international exposure. That is why I only see this getting youtube famous.


You also said this in the same sentence:



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Im not special pleading. Im not saying you should take every amazing claim seriously, Im just saying that to think every 'supernatural' experience must be a mistake of a fallible mind is ridiculous.


My point is that it is NOT ridiculous. Out of the millions of people that have claimed supernatural powers over the years, not a single one has ever been able to demonstrate they are correct. They have a collective 100% failure rate, without a single exception. Just think about that. What you are claiming he can do has never been done in real life, even a single time, in all of history. None. Ever. 

It would go beyond youtube famous. Seriously, I don't think you understand just how extraordinary the claims you are making are. If your friend had these supernatural powers it would be one of the biggest discoveries ever. Possibly THE biggest discovery ever. It would be a paradigm shift that would turn physics on it's ear. I guarantee your friend would be known by nearly every person on the globe. He would become the most famous person on earth. More famous than any sports player, musician, actor, or politician ever. He would become a household name across the globe, that is how important this discovery would be.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 9, 2012)

guy incognito said:


> You also said this in the same sentence:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, he would become that famous if he was verified by professionals. Pad and Z may be qualified to do the job but they are not professionals. If someone recognizable in the scientific community confirmed these claims than yes, everything would change, shit would get crazy. It may be good at first but I just see it ending badly for me and my friends (Re-read the discussion for the reason why).


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 9, 2012)

bubbles6302 said:


> Watchin this while really high seems like a good idea  Life changing stuff


Shits cray.


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## guy incognito (Nov 9, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Yes, he would become that famous if he was verified by professionals. Pad and Z may be qualified to do the job but they are not professionals. If someone recognizable in the scientific community confirmed these claims than yes, everything would change, shit would get crazy. It may be good at first but I just see it ending badly for me and my friends (Re-read the discussion for the reason why).


That is the thing about science and reality. If I say I performed cold fusion, and I tricked some skeptic into believing me, it wouldn't really do much. But if I actually did discover cold fusion, then it would stand on it's own merit. It could be repeated by others and we could discover the mechanism of how it worked. If your friend actually has these abilities it will stand on it's own merit. He has an opportunity to be the richest and most famous person in the world if he wants. Even if he doesn't want fame or fortune it is incredibly selfish of him to keep this from the scientific community. As I said, it would be one of the biggest discoveries in the history of mankind.


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## cannabineer (Nov 10, 2012)

guy incognito said:


> That is the thing about science and reality. If I say I performed cold fusion, and I tricked some skeptic into believing me, it wouldn't really do much. But if I actually did discover cold fusion, then it would stand on it's own merit. It could be repeated by others and we could discover the mechanism of how it worked. If your friend actually has these abilities it will stand on it's own merit. He has an opportunity to be the richest and most famous person in the world if he wants. * Even if he doesn't want fame or fortune it is incredibly selfish of him to keep this from the scientific community*. As I said, it would be one of the biggest discoveries in the history of mankind.


And yet I have much sympathy for that side of it. Can you imagine scientists coldly calculating that that person's rights to privacy are less than their rights to investigate? I can. [If I were a genuine psychic agonizing over going public] I would be very afraid of losing all control in the hands of the system. 

You might even say, anyone could a seen it coming.
cn


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## guy incognito (Nov 10, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> And yet I have much sympathy for that side of it. Can you imagine scientists coldly calculating that that person's rights to privacy are less than their rights to investigate? I can. [If I were a genuine psychic agonizing over going public] I would be very afraid of losing all control in the hands of the system.
> 
> You might even say, anyone could a seen it coming.
> cn


The greater good.


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## cannabineer (Nov 11, 2012)

[video=youtube;yUpbOliTHJY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpbOliTHJY[/video]


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## guy incognito (Nov 11, 2012)

The greater good.


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## cannabineer (Nov 11, 2012)




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## Heisenberg (Nov 12, 2012)

"We know that the ancient Egyptians built the pyramids because they left us a huge amount of evidence. We have the signatures of architects. We have the markings on stones left by engineers. We have instructions, logs, and even graffiti left by the building crews on stones that have been excavated from places that were never meant to be seen. We have the homes of the workers, we have the written histories of the pharoahs carved into the stone, and we have a staggering wealth of testable artifacts recovered from sealed tombs. Everywhere, from the outer exposed surfaces to the inner hidden surfaces to the contents of sealed rooms, we have the self-referential history of the building of the great works of ancient Egypt. And if all of that is not enough, we have thousands of the Egyptians themselves, thanks to their practice of mummification."


"In short, a staggering amount of evidence exists that tells us about ancient Egypt, and not one shred of it has ever contradicted what they've told us their own selves."

-Brian Dunning


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