# Unconventional Organics



## malignant (Jul 12, 2012)

Here's your place to post about anything that raises eyebrows or turns noses, all is fair game here so long as its all natural and organic, let your freak flags fly!!


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 12, 2012)

aloe vera juice????

apple cider vinegar???

anybody use these? and how much should you use???


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## irieie (Jul 12, 2012)

How much should I piss in my plants. Should I piss directly into the pots or should I pee into a cup and then mix it with water. I am thinking about the second route because I have trouble stopping midstream so measuring word be tough. What


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## malignant (Jul 12, 2012)

seriously, there are some people who take urine and waste very seriously and they have every right to post about their findings too, just trying to give them a place to do so, be respectful and dont be jerk, take this seriously or you may find your posts deleted.


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## irieie (Jul 12, 2012)

malignant said:


> seriously, there are some people who take urine and waste very seriously and they have every right to post about their findings too, just trying to give them a place to do so, be respectful and dont be jerk, take this seriously or you may find your posts deleted.


Sorry. Didn't mean nothing by it


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## malignant (Jul 12, 2012)

no worries just a warning to the trolls who eat this stuff up


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## irieie (Jul 12, 2012)

in all seriousness though i have been trying some stuff that my buddy gave me its called megamator and it made by natures best in az. it is just a top dressing amendment for soil in the flower phase. so far i guess it is doing its job. when i transplanted my latest three for flower i mixed in some compost with my advanced sunshine #4 and in the bottom i also mixed some of this top dressing. then i made a tea with fish emulsion, molasses, hygrozyme, fulvex, liquid karma, and cal mag. and i inoculated it with the bush doctor root drench and other thing. the plants are loving it and this should be a great grow.


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## irieie (Jul 12, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> aloe vera juice????
> 
> apple cider vinegar???
> 
> anybody use these? and how much should you use???


i have heard of using aloe vera instead of yucca as a wetting agent and nitrogen source when making your own soil you can find more about it here https://www.rollitup.org/arizona-patients/540445-kelloggs-organic-granular.html
i suggest checking out the whole thread there is some great stuff in there.


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## 1337hacker (Jul 13, 2012)

Aloe vera is great as an antistress agent during transplants


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## WyoGrow (Jul 13, 2012)

I will be running a DWC tomato grow using my ow urine as the bulk nutrient.... a little wood ash tossed in once the plants starts to set flowers. I'll post results in here.


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## medical/420 (Jul 13, 2012)

my buddy uses his Dog SHIT on his vegible garden. and I piss/urinenate on my vegible garden. I knew a guy that would pick up road kill and thow it in a pile and let it compost and use it on his Weed plants


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## malignant (Jul 13, 2012)

that all must smell very nasty


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## str8sativa (Jul 13, 2012)

and probably spread disease ha


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## medical/420 (Jul 13, 2012)

str8sativa said:


> and probably spread disease ha


blood meal , bone meal both can spead diseases, not to metion Bat guanos and sea bird poo,


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## glassblower3000 (Jul 13, 2012)

alright here it goes (I can't believe i'm posting this) I had a dog that had a litter of pups, she had about three that died..fat bitch layed on them and suffacated them,,oh well anywho I burried them in this hole cause i had grown a plant in the hole years before (soft dirt)...the following spring I planted this cheesewreck ontop of the well composted puppy carcases...fuckin' nasty I know...I would never do this today.


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## Redbird1223 (Jul 13, 2012)

i knew someone who had a kid and saved the afterbirth to bring home. they buried it, planted a tree on top and called it the "Macayla" tree.


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## Kalyx (Jul 14, 2012)

> Redbird1223i knew someone who had a kid and saved the afterbirth to bring home. they buried it, planted a tree on top and called it the "Macayla" tree.
> ​


This is a common practice in many parts of the world/cultures. My buddy pulled a quick switch this spring because his daughters tree didn't make it through the winter. He timed it right and she just thought it got a slow start that spring! Its ok IMO all life comes from death with microbes doing the magic transition! Its just like planting a corn kernel in a fish carcass back in the day.

Instead of buying your kid a case of wine from the year of their birth, I was thinking the cannabis version would be like grow a dank plant with your childs placenta tea then make hash and save it for when you bust them toking. So this is "your hash"... and I only want you smoking the good stuff kid. Me personally I'd rather have that than a case of aged bordeau any day!

I still have my daughters (heart shaped, rare!) placenta in the freezer, maybe I will use it to make some tea on some plants like I said above. I did pump the water and afterbirth (home birth was great!) from the puddle birth (we were gonna do a water birth but she came when it was only 5" full!) right into my tomato bed and they are doing great this year even though they got seeded late by a new dad gardener who was about one and a half months behind schedule. MMmmm homegrown tomatoes, one thing I LOVE about late summer.


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## fliesandshit (Jul 18, 2012)

As some already mentioned, urine is a really great fertilizer. Here in Sweden people use it all the time, dilute it with water (1 part urine, 2-10 parts water depending on if the soil is already wet and how much nutes your plant can handle) and water. It's called "golden water". I read on some swedish gardening forum that every time you pee, you throw away like 3-4 USD worth of top grade fertilizer.

And if you think it's gross: You don't water on the buds but on the soil. The plants don't absorb the urine, it simply uses all the valuable nutriets. Watering with "golden water" does not mean you will be smoing your own pee.


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## BigJon (Jul 18, 2012)

glassblower3000 said:


> alright here it goes (I can't believe i'm posting this) I had a dog that had a litter of pups, she had about three that died..fat bitch layed on them and suffacated them,,oh well anywho I burried them in this hole cause i had grown a plant in the hole years before (soft dirt)...the following spring I planted this cheesewreck ontop of the well composted puppy carcases...fuckin' nasty I know...I would never do this today.


So uhhh....how was teh cheesewreck?


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## onlikepopcorn (Jul 18, 2012)

I use crawfish from the river up the road. I smash up about 5 good size ones for every gallon of soil. I also use alpaca manure. My total recipe is kind of eyeballed, but its basically perlite, vermiculite, crawfish, my forest mulch compost tea, alpaca manure and worm castings from the cow pasture. I used to use the cow manure, but I find the alpaca manure doesn't have as foul an odor when using indoors. I've had great results so far.


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## BigJon (Jul 18, 2012)

I dont know how unconventional this is but I occasionally get the hook up from chinese buffets in the city. If I give them a day in advance, they'll give me all the oyster shells I want. I haven't used any yet but I plan on crushing them and adding them in.
Its not the shell that's unorthodox but the method of obtaining em.


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## C3Pgro (Jul 19, 2012)

*If Im receiving alot of light at my grow and I invest in solar panels, would they work to power my pump and timer(the timer allows me to program weeks of different watering schedules) to water/feed them? I am not into using a generator and gasoline at my site to power the pump to fill the reservoir from my water source. 
I was thinking something along the lines of this:
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/SolarPortablePower/SolarEnergy/PRDOVR~0111882P/Blue+Planet+Solar+Panel%2C+15+Watt.jsp?locale=en

Alternatively, could I place my reservoir elevated and use gravity to drip feed my plants slowly throughout the month? Each plant would get its own hose.

Any feedback would be awesome, even if its to tell me that this isnt possible lol. Thanks guys! *


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## knnthc93 (Jul 19, 2012)

How about tums for cal, and epson salt for mag? Im sure thats normal


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## glassblower3000 (Jul 20, 2012)

BigJon said:


> So uhhh....how was teh cheesewreck?


It was awesome..my girl wouldn't smoke it.(.she called it the puppy plant) but one time i rolled a bomber and smoked it with her she was like damn this is dank!!! what is it??............I was like.....PUPPY PLANT BYATCH!!! she was all burnt...it was awesome...then after that she would smoke it ,she just didn't want to know.


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## BigJon (Jul 20, 2012)

glassblower3000 said:


> It was awesome..my girl wouldn't smoke it.(.she called it the puppy plant) but one time i rolled a bomber and smoked it with her she was like damn this is dank!!! what is it??............I was like.....PUPPY PLANT BYATCH!!! she was all burnt...it was awesome...then after that she would smoke it ,she just didn't want to know.


LMAO!!!!! "PUPPY PLANT BYATCH!" HAHA! Nice! 

No better way to honor the memory of your pup! I been telling my friends, if I get cremated, I'm going to will them to put some of me in a soil mix, grow me out, then smoke me on my death anniversary.


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## l8lDANKl8l (Jul 21, 2012)

Kalyx said:


> This is a common practice in many parts of the world/cultures. My buddy pulled a quick switch this spring because his daughters tree didn't make it through the winter. He timed it right and she just thought it got a slow start that spring! Its ok IMO all life comes from death with microbes doing the magic transition! Its just like planting a corn kernel in a fish carcass back in the day.
> 
> Instead of buying your kid a case of wine from the year of their birth, I was thinking the cannabis version would be like grow a dank plant with your childs placenta tea then make hash and save it for when you bust them toking. So this is "your hash"... and I only want you smoking the good stuff kid. Me personally I'd rather have that than a case of aged bordeau any day!
> 
> I still have my daughters (heart shaped, rare!) placenta in the freezer, maybe I will use it to make some tea on some plants like I said above. I did pump the water and afterbirth (home birth was great!) from the puddle birth (we were gonna do a water birth but she came when it was only 5" full!) right into my tomato bed and they are doing great this year even though they got seeded late by a new dad gardener who was about one and a half months behind schedule. MMmmm homegrown tomatoes, one thing I LOVE about late summer.


ive also heard its a common practice to grill the placenta and the mother to eat it. Supposed to be very nutritous. So whats with the aloe vera and transplant? what exactly do you do? im actually starting an aloe vera farm got a few pups gonna be making a variety of products. Anyways ill have alot of it ha so yea how does it benefit my other garden?


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## seriouswhimsy (Jul 26, 2012)

empty your overnight container FIRST thing in the morning, lest your toddler find it. Also, pee will stink very quickly in the heat.


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## snew (Jul 27, 2012)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/09/090918-urine-ash-fertilizer.html


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## BigJon (Jul 28, 2012)

I wonder of I can go to the zoo with a couple of homer buckets and collect giraffe and elephant manure.


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## guanoman (Aug 8, 2012)

I'm not sure if this counts but...
In addition to my normal organics I also add two products:
Nutri+ Black (this provides humic acid or so I have read)
Nutri+ Gold (this provides folic acid or so I have read)
Both products claim to be organic compatible so I close my eyes and pretend that they are fully organic.
Other companies like DNF also carry black and gold products which I have also used but they don't say organic compatible so I switched.
I add 1tsp black & 1/2 tsp gold to 4 liters (1 gallon) of water.
Works wonders for me but I use the following recipe:
For 4 liters (1 gallon)
2 tsp Fish based fertilizer (Muskie 5-1-1)
1/2 tsp seaweed (Nutri+ Seaweeds)
1 tsp guanno (veg or flower variety depending on your needs)
1 tsp blackstrap molasses
1 tsp Nutri+ black
1/2 tsp Nutri+ gold
Use within 24 hours or less.
The molasses will help keep the micro organisms alive and keep the stuff from going funky for about a day.
I use 1/2 strength on seedlings
I feed every second feeding or 2 of every 3 feedings depending on the plants requirements.
***If using DNF use 1 tsp gold***
***If using black/gold from other companies not listed here use the directions on the bottles***


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## thecrazybotanist (Aug 8, 2012)

BigJon said:


> I wonder of I can go to the zoo with a couple of homer buckets and collect giraffe and elephant manure.


Only if you want to be locked up by the Zoo Police! LOL they sell that stuff or use it!


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## The Outdoorsman (Aug 9, 2012)

*Beer traps for bugs,*&#8203;


Use half a water bottle, fill with cheap beer and a squeeze of dish soap and mix together.

Bury level with the ground, spaced throughout area and change every 2-4 days as needed

As long as the bugs can climb in the bowl I don't see why this wouldn't work on a indoor set up...



Worked wonders on those little black "bravada" potato bugs


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## BigJon (Aug 13, 2012)

thecrazybotanist said:


> Only if you want to be locked up by the Zoo Police! LOL they sell that stuff or use it!


Well I intended on talking to people in charge and more like "volunteering" to help them clean up but also to bring some poop home.


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## hiluxphantom (Aug 21, 2012)

Well luckily for me I've had enough competition over the past years to feed all my crops. never needed puppies


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## BigJon (Aug 21, 2012)

A new thing i'm doing is making seaweed concentrate by letting nori sushi wraps ferment in water.


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## anonz (Sep 15, 2012)

what about banana peels?


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## Senseimilla (Sep 16, 2012)

anonz said:


> what about banana peels?


You can turn banana peels into either compost or wormcastings and then they'll be great for the plant.


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## grouch (Sep 25, 2012)

I have heard of people using pee in aquaponic setups. It doesn't take much and you need the bacteria established to break it down from ammonia to nitrates. Some even use it to get their systems cycled and started. I prefer fish poop for my ferts. Running my second aquaponics grow right now.


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## frankenbong (Sep 28, 2012)

OK SO I have a question. I was cooking round steak today with a large chunk of bone in the middle. What is the marrow composed of, and do you think i could make a beneficial tea???


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## D3monic (Sep 28, 2012)

When ever I plant a seedling I bury a live fish with it. Nothing overly large, max 1"

This is more of a sacrificial thing than for nutrients but some provided obviously.


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## CC Dobbs (Sep 28, 2012)

I am able to collect seaweed every month or so and I add this to my compost. If it is rinsed off well before inclusion there are no salt issues and the worms love, love ,love it.


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## no clue (Sep 28, 2012)

BigJon said:


> A new thing i'm doing is making seaweed concentrate by letting nori sushi wraps ferment in water.


How is that concoction coming along?


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## Senseimilla (Sep 28, 2012)

I don't know if marrow has anything particularly beneficial for plants... it probably would be better left in the ground to decompose and become available to the plant than used in a tea form.

Fish in the ground is very common but most people I know of bury the fish a few months prior to planting so that is already degraded and available to the plant... also prevents burning.


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## PJ Diaz (Sep 29, 2012)

Alfalfa meal tea for the Triancontrol compound (the chemical found in "snow storm ultra").

Spent hops in the compost pile from the local brewery.

Spent coffee grounds in the compost pile from the local coffee shop. You can include the coffee filters too, no prob -- they biodegrade quick.

Seaweed washed ashore and collected and rinsed then in the compost pile.


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## sorethumb (Sep 29, 2012)

i take a ton of leafs off to similate an animal attack on my plants when they get too bushy and plot out the lights opps animal attack crazy i know but the weed gets you ripped i think it increases thc idk though i could just be f ing my plants up


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## Dendrophilly (Sep 30, 2012)

On the topic of all these sea nutrients and use of dead things, do jellyfish hold anything valuable nutrients that could be gained thought compost?

edit:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/12/jellyfish-plankton-ocean-acid

reading this, formulating opinions...

Found a thread in another forum about this, but as soon as I registered I stopped being able to view the thread. Blarg, wtf.

They have an nkp of 4.6-0-0 and they should be dried before composting.


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## farmit420 (Oct 25, 2012)

could it be used during the cloning process too, to relieve stress maybe? just to help the kids on that first couple days of sadness


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## farmit420 (Oct 25, 2012)

has anyone experimented with different types of worms or is the little earthworm guys the best option?


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## sworth (Oct 25, 2012)

Bookworms! Just place them over the compost heap , and give a copy of "War and Peace"



But seriously, tiger worms from the fishing shop...


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## Justin5737 (Nov 15, 2012)

Take a nylon stocking and fill it with earth worm castings and some great white, bubble w/ an airstone in a couple gals of RO water.... noooooch!


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## okiesmokey (Nov 25, 2012)

1337hacker said:


> Aloe vera is great as an antistress agent during transplants


That makes sense, aloe vera has healing properties in the liquid. My question is how do you harvest it. Just pick the leaves and squeeze out the gel or is there a powder for purchase?


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## Snafu1236 (Jan 1, 2013)

Wyo, urine will not work as effectively as you are thinking.

Want a cool unconventional organic tip? Water with sparkling mineral water every now and then, your roots will love you for it. I like to use Perrier (seriously).

-Snafu


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## Cann (Jan 1, 2013)

Snafu - Elaborate on this....what about the sparkling (carbonation) is good for roots? Does the co2 get released when you pour it, therefore giving the plant a tiny boost? Would be great to know the science behind this....

thanks


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## Snafu1236 (Jan 1, 2013)

The roots don't absorb the CO2 from the carbonated water...roots breathe O2..however, a disturbance at the root level by way of the carbonation creates a positive effect on the plant...my own theory is it has a positive effect on the physical environment of the roots...but I do not know what that is! 

All I know is my plants love it from time to time!

Ps. You can foliar with carbonated water for a minimal CO2 uptake...but I have not seen a great effect by this method.


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## SpliffAndMyLady (Jan 1, 2013)

Snafu1236 said:


> Water with sparkling mineral water every now and then, your roots will love you for it.
> -Snafu


I heard of people doing this in aeroponics and hydroponics, never with soil though. Intresting, you actually use this method?


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## Cann (Jan 1, 2013)

Hmm...I guess I just need some science to figure out why it has a positive effect...I was assuming the leaves would breathe the CO2, not the roots, just thinking that maybe as you pour and the bubbles pop it releases a bunch of CO2 directly at the base of the plant...with a sealed room that would be a noticeable increase in ppm


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## Snafu1236 (Jan 2, 2013)

Yes, the leaves absorb the Co2, roots o2. 

I think the positive uptick is positive root disturbance and the presence of micronutrients within the water that is absorbed much more quickly. 

Or, its all in my head

-Snaf


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## Cann (Jan 2, 2013)

After doing a bit of reading online it appears that the mineral content of the water has a lot to do with it...apparently it can provide the plant with all the micronutrients it needs? Or something along those lines. Interesting....might have to give it a try...


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## Digger Dave (Jan 3, 2013)

irieie said:


> How much should I piss in my plants. Should I piss directly into the pots or should I pee into a cup and then mix it with water. I am thinking about the second route because I have trouble stopping midstream so measuring word be tough. What


Never! Have i even wanted to piss on my pot plants,you are what you smoke!


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## VTMi'kmaq (Jan 3, 2013)

as a native i had a jump start on organic gardening my mi'kmaq grandmother would catch sheeps head and carp in the nearby river then bury them into the garden(whole) at least 5-6 good size fish into next years plot. I have been recently trying to figure out an indoor method that wouldnt bring in any nastys from outside.


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## Digger Dave (Jan 3, 2013)

BigJon said:


> Well I intended on talking to people in charge and more like "volunteering" to help them clean up but also to bring some poop home.


What ya goin to do put it in your pockets.


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## Digger Dave (Jan 3, 2013)

Snafu1236 said:


> The roots don't absorb the CO2 from the carbonated water...roots breathe O2..however, a disturbance at the root level by way of the carbonation creates a positive effect on the plant...my own theory is it has a positive effect on the physical environment of the roots...but I do not know what that is!
> 
> All I know is my plants love it from time to time!
> 
> Ps. You can foliar with carbonated water for a minimal CO2 uptake...but I have not seen a great effect by this method.


A Little hydrogen peroxide will add the O2


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## Cann (Jan 3, 2013)

Digger Dave said:


> A Little hydrogen peroxide will add the O2


Not the best advice for organics I don't think....H2O2 + microbeasties = chaos. The aerobic bacteria may love the extra oxygen boost, but any of the "good" anaerobic bacteria in your soil will be immediately fried...and these are harder to replace than the aerobic bacteria (just water with a nice AACT and you can replenish your aerobic population almost instantly, not necessarily the case with anaerobic). 

For an O2 boost I would just say grow in airpots or smartpots...that will give your roots all the oxygen they could ever need


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## Snafu1236 (Jan 3, 2013)

Digger Dave said:


> A Little hydrogen peroxide will add the O2


Yikes! Never would I ever use Hydrogen Peroxide for ANYTHING in my garden, EVER!

You dump that on your plant, your plant dies. No two ways about that. 

Please do not give advice for knowledge you do not know, you could seriously hurt someones garden on here with advice like that.

-Snafu


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## Cann (Jan 4, 2013)

Couldn't agree more...I was just trying to say it a bit more subtly haha. Good to keep him in check tho...after that post I went around reading a bunch of his other posts and they were similarly misinformative...gotta watch out for those folks on RIU...its like 90% of the people on here lol.


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## Dank Raptor (Jan 4, 2013)

hydrogen peroxide is used in hydro grows. Fairly common knowledge. Just not good for organics.


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## Digger Dave (Jan 5, 2013)

Cann said:


> Couldn't agree more...I was just trying to say it a bit more subtly haha. Good to keep him in check tho...after that post I went around reading a bunch of his other posts and they were similarly misinformative...gotta watch out for those folks on RIU...its like 90% of the people on here lol.


Well I guess I'm just a dumbass dirt farmer, will never post again, but why do I have very good smoke?You know all Cann!


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## Cann (Jan 5, 2013)

pics? and no I do not claim to know all...but I also dont go around telling people things that have no scientific foundation...

you can probably still grow decent flowers using h2o2 in soil, just like you can grow decent flowers using synthetic nutes in soil, but if you want to be truly "organic" you would never put h202 in your soil....ever. please do some research before you tell people things like that though...there are people on here who will take anyones advice as true, and you could've just cost someone their crop


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 5, 2013)

Peroxide has however done WORK on any cut that I can remember my mom tending to haha! Killed ALL THE BACTERIA!

Get an exhale C02 bag, hang it up and leave it there...That's gotta be uncontentional...Some say it don't do anything...Some swear by it..I'm on the swearing side just loking at my plants mmm.
It's doing work for me...<$40 for 6 months C02? So easy a cave man could do it


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## Cann (Jan 5, 2013)

does the exhale bag really claim to work for 6 months? That seems a bit farfetched to me...wont the mycelium run out of food before then? Do you have a ppm meter in your room to monitor the CO2 levels?


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 5, 2013)

Cann said:


> does the exhale bag really claim to work for 6 months? That seems a bit farfetched to me...wont the mycelium run out of food before then? Do you have a ppm meter in your room to monitor the CO2 levels?


No ppm meter. Just *DEEP green* plants in my closet. Can't attribute it to anything else really.
I know I have a pretty good soil mix and a okay routine so that helps some too..But I'm still in a closet. 
The only thing cooling my 12 CFLs and 2 150w HPS lamps is a small oscillating fan. 
I keep the apt. temp around 65 and the closet temp is doesn't get but a few degrees warmer. 
Ventilation is what it is. I hung up light blocking curtains on both sides of the door, and a sheet in between so that the door remains wide open, but totally black when I need it to be.
The temperature is an afterthought.

I'm not really worried about if lasts 6 months or not. Their advertising six months says more than enough for the plants life cycle.
If for any reason anyone can't do the tanks, I would suggest you start here because its done the do for me
I'll be buying another one soon. I'd say it was $35 well spent again and again and again and.......


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## Snafu1236 (Jan 5, 2013)

Exhale bags work for 3 months, then die, if it is a fresh bag.

Done a TON of tests on them, as well as Green Pads.

Both work good. Exhale Bag is better and more efficient and cost effective than the greenpads though.

And, I acknowledge your gracefulness, Cann, in your approach. I typically take much the same.

However, when people consistently spread misinformation it should be quickly and swiftly uprooted.

And Digger Dave is just inexperienced, ignorant and a tinge of arrogant for ripping on you, Cann. Anyone who tells me that they have grown quality smoke from using Hydrogen Perozxide dumps as a watering or feeding method is either a liar or a complete f____ing idiot. 

I say they are a liar, because Hydrogen Peroxide has done nothing but ruined my grows in the past.

-Snafu


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## Snafu1236 (Jan 5, 2013)

And if anyone cares to 'call me out' on anything, please read all of my posts, every single one that I either commented on or created. After you read what I have put here on RIU, then we can have a conversation if you feel I am wrong somewhere in my methods.

And PLEASE, at the very least, read my grow through and through in the signature below before you want to begin attacking my knowledge and experience base; You would be hard pressed to find a more expertly detailed, efficicent all-organic grow on one of the trickiest/pickiest strains available, DJ Short's Blueberry anywhere on the internet. Bold claim? Maybe, but the specific reason why I created that thread was there was not a decent DJ Short Blueberry Journal anywhere to be found.

-Snafu


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 5, 2013)

And it's all good bro.
I'm not dumb enough to believe that any one person on here knows the best way to do everything. That's not logical.
You're speaking from your POV like EVERYONE ELSE HERE.

Like I'd be damned to believe that the exhale bag is done after 3 months...I'm 3 months in and the mycium is still growing, so it's still working so far. Got it in October actually, and it says on the bag to throw away in April.
And I also don't know how you'd come across and old bag. The note within said that they "activated" it when shipped.

But I will say it makes you no better than whoever you called an ignorant and arrogant. You don't know him/her/it.
I did learn not to pass judgement no matter who your dealing with. Learned that early


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## Snafu1236 (Jan 5, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> And it's all good bro.
> I'm not dumb enough to believe that any one person on here knows the best way to do everything. That's not logical.
> You're speaking from your POV like EVERYONE ELSE HERE.
> 
> ...


I only pass judgement on people who tell me to do stupid things that will hurt me, my friends, my family or the things I care for. 

And I will gladly and happily call out their wrongs for the whole world to see their fallacy, in the hopes that their misguidance will not hurt others.

For I am not in this for myself, but in this to help spread the truth and knowledge about this beautiful plant!

Truth rules.

-Snafu


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## Snafu1236 (Jan 5, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> And it's all good bro.
> 
> 
> Like I'd be damned to believe that the exhale bag is done after 3 months...I'm 3 months in and the mycium is still growing, so it's still working so far. Got it in October actually, and it says on the bag to throw away in April.
> And I also don't know how you'd come across and old bag. The note within said that they "activated" it when shipped.


Oh yeah...I feel this warrants a response since you seemingly think this is a contentious issue with me(its not).

Great! You're mycelium rocks! Have you checked you PPm meter? Because you hit that mark and your CO2 drops. It is as simple as having a meter and reading its levels actively for the entire duration you have your bag, and then for three months after that.

But, going out on a limb here---you do not have a Co2 meter. But.....

The honest company who I never met before said they 'activated' it! They even wrote it on a card!

'Nuf said.

P.S. When was the last time you ever 'activated' a living organism? Life happens whether we want it to or not.


Chaos.


-Snafu


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 5, 2013)

No questions asked in regards to the product. I bought it for what it was advertised as an it's done the job.
I don't care how it works or what it's composed of, or what the "honest" company says about it. *It works. You've already acknowledged that.*

Do I need a ppm meter to grow cannabis with? Is it a necessity? And nah I'm not gonna buy one. I'm not pressed.

I'm glad I don't live in a world where I'm questioning the contents of a decomposing bag..I'm not pressed. It just doesn't matter.

*
"The honest company who I never met before said they 'activated' it! They even wrote it on a card!"*
-How do you get an old bag of exhale? How do you know the bags you got where brand new?...How do you know when the contents were bagged?

All those questions are rhetorical. They don't require an answer.

And it don't matter when or how you pass judgement...You don't know everything. If you did, we wouldn't be having this convo.
But you speak like you do. It's not a fact that after 3months all exhale bags die but yet you say it without a problem...
Its not a fact the buddy is ignorant...That's your opinion...

Calling out wrongs but doing none...I wish i was you


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## Snafu1236 (Jan 6, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> No questions asked in regards to the product. I bought it for what it was advertised as an it's done the job.
> I don't care how it works or what it's composed of, or what the "honest" company says about it. *It works. You've already acknowledged that.*
> 
> Do I need a ppm meter to grow cannabis with? Is it a necessity? And nah I'm not gonna buy one. I'm not pressed.
> ...


Hehe, trust me, I am probably one of the worst growers on here, as I make quite a few of mistakes, over and over again it seems sometimes

But alas, I do agree with you on the Exhale bags, they are great. Its jt in my own experience they do not last as long as the company has advertised. I dont have a PPM meter anymore myself....but, when I was running tests on Co2 components, I was actively using a PPM meter to gauge results for accurate findings. And there is no way of telling if a company is true...but IME it is hard to put specific constraints and limits on a living and breathing entity...there are too many other factors involved (I sell organic flowers and produce and would never say how long they will last for or live for to my customers...too many variables when it leaves the store and I run the risk of compromise).

But either way, happy growing man! Enjoy your Sunday!

-Snafu


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 6, 2013)

Likewise lad! Happy Sunday lol and good luck on your grow


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## Kalyx (Jan 8, 2013)

... back to unconventional organics. Anyone using insect frass? If so how; in your mix or in the AACT regimen?



I will be giving it a go. I got half a bag from a friend who swears he noticed an almost instant immune response that boosted his ladies. 

I mixed some globally into my mix and it is cooking, I will also try it in my AACT and see what I notice...

http://www.onfrass.com/what.html this is what I'm trying out, their site is very informative.


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## Snafu1236 (Jan 8, 2013)

Havent used Insect Frass before, it has caught my attention now though!


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## Tweetybird999 (Jan 8, 2013)

Unconventional organics...I'm in the middle of building some indoor compost (as it is frozen and snowy outside). The household veggie & fruit peels have gone in, as well as some canna leaves, peat moss, blood & bone meals, alfalfa pellets, oyster shells ground and probably a bit more stuff. I can get all the ingredients below from a feed store. That's where the oyser shell & alfalfa pellets came from, also some molasses. I can get some flax seeds or maybe ground flax from the grocery store, but only a pound is a reasonable price. Any ideas if these would be a good idea? I cannot get exotic ingredients, as the shipping price will kill the value. 
ROLLED OATS 20KG 
WHOLE OATS 20KG
DOUBLE CLEANED OATS 20KG
ROLLED BARLEY 20KG
WHOLE BARLEY 20KG
CRACKED WHEAT 20KG
WHOLE CORN 25KG
ROLLED MIX( BARLEY/OATS) 20KG
MIXED CHOP ( WHEAT/BARLEY/OATS) 25KG 
GRANITE GRIT #1 2 & 3 25KG
DOUBLE DUTY GRIT 25KG
Soyameal 20kg 
Diatomaceous Earth 20kg 
SHAVINGS 3 CUBIC FEET


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## Dank Raptor (Jan 8, 2013)

What are you gonna do with all that. Grow a fungus creature?


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## Tweetybird999 (Jan 8, 2013)

Fungus creature...I hope so  I'm wondering what peeps think would be good to use and for what? These are easy to get and cheap enough, but which one(s) and how?

Also picked up Xylitol (birch sugar alcohol), amber coconut palm nectar, nutritional yeast, brewers yeast & kelp powder...all organic. These will be put into compost and a tablespoon of each placed in a bubble brewer with water overnight, with black strap molasses, for a drench the next time I water. Yes, I want the yeast and bacteria to have a party  I like to look at AN line of products and duplicate (sort of) some of their bottled products.


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## thafoot (Jan 14, 2013)

Wwhats the skinny on fish tank water? Fresh water of course. Ive got a sh55 gallon and a 20 gallon. Im not the keeper of the fish so im not sure what the specific levels are of all the different shit, but I could find out. I do water changes every 2 weeks or somethin. What abour storing it? Using it in an AACT? I could try it out myself in a few weeks but for now I dont want to risk a negative effect. Thanks


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## FR33MASON (Jan 19, 2013)

thafoot said:


> Wwhats the skinny on fish tank water? Fresh water of course. Ive got a sh55 gallon and a 20 gallon. Im not the keeper of the fish so im not sure what the specific levels are of all the different shit, but I could find out. I do water changes every 2 weeks or somethin. What abour storing it? Using it in an AACT? I could try it out myself in a few weeks but for now I dont want to risk a negative effect. Thanks


I use it and it works great... Living water for living soils. 
I use a powerhead to circulate and oxygenate the water. Stagnant water produces gram negative bacilli and fungi which can be pathogenic. If you have municipal water that has chloramine, you can add up to a max of 30% by volume into your holding reservoir. The bacteria will feed off the *chloramine* so tap water will actually help keep your water alive. I actually stopped using water conditioners to my aquariums over 10 years ago and remove only 20%, once a week and replace it with water straight out the tap and the plants and fish love it and in turn provide me with what I consider an awesome source of water.

EDIT: If you don't have tap water with chloramine, you can add a 1/4tsp of ammonia or a small sprinkle of your pee per 20 gal. of water every 3 to 5 days to keep your stored aquarium water alive.


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## thafoot (Jan 21, 2013)

FR33MASON said:


> I use it and it works great... Living water for living soils.
> I use a powerhead to circulate and oxygenate the water. Stagnant water produces gram negative bacilli and fungi which can be pathogenic. If you have municipal water that has chloramine, you can add up to a max of 30% by volume into your holding reservoir. The bacteria will feed off the *chloramine* so tap water will actually help keep your water alive. I actually stopped using water conditioners to my aquariums over 10 years ago and remove only 20%, once a week and replace it with water straight out the tap and the plants and fish love it and in turn provide me with what I consider an awesome source of water.
> 
> EDIT: If you don't have tap water with chloramine, you can add a 1/4tsp of ammonia or a small sprinkle of your pee per 20 gal. of water every 3 to 5 days to keep your stored aquarium water alive.


 thank you freemason. i use tap water as well when i do a 20% water change. we have well water here tho, no chlormine. it is softened too. the plants in the fish tanks stay alive(aquarium plants) . im going to try it once i get some rooted clones here comin up.


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## VTMi'kmaq (Jan 21, 2013)

200 head jersey cow farm the farmer stacks there shit 20 foot high waiting for spring thaw so we can liquify said shit and spread it all over the fields(sweet corn, cukes , and beaners! I am gonna grab a 5 gallon bucket or two let em dry a bit and use that on some veggin ladies.


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## VTMi'kmaq (Jan 21, 2013)

Until i get my filtration system in the mail what would you guys recomend for flouride in the water? I havent noticed a huge change in the plants however i know flouride cant be good for them any thoughts?


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## FR33MASON (Jan 21, 2013)

thafoot said:


> thank you freemason. i use tap water as well when i do a 20% water change. we have well water here tho, no chlormine. it is softened too. the plants in the fish tanks stay alive(aquarium plants) . im going to try it once i get some rooted clones here comin up.


You reminded me of a point that I would like to make of one instance that you should not use live water and that is for cloning. 
I had never lost a single clone until I tried cloning with some live water once and lost the whole lot. I normally use municipal tap water which has choramine and like I mentioned, never lost a single clone which makes sense as the microbes will clog up the tissue of a cut stem and stem rot sets in. Your well water is fine as it does not have near the bacteria or fungi that live water does. Once you transplant an established clone, you can use the aquarium water which is what you mentioned you were going to do. I just wanted to clarify for others that are reading this thread.


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## FR33MASON (Jan 21, 2013)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> 200 head jersey cow farm the farmer stacks there shit 20 foot high waiting for spring thaw so we can liquify said shit and spread it all over the fields(sweet corn, cukes , and beaners! I am gonna grab a 5 gallon bucket or two let em dry a bit and use that on some veggin ladies.


You're going to have 50' plants with that stuff lol... Joking aside if it has not been well composted do be careful and go light with it. I know it can make your plants stretch like crazy or just burn your roots from high ammonia release as it decomposes. awesome and I'm imagining free source of nutes though.


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## FR33MASON (Jan 21, 2013)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> Until i get my filtration system in the mail what would you guys recomend for flouride in the water? I havent noticed a huge change in the plants however i know flouride cant be good for them any thoughts?


Most places use sodium fluoride and it will easily bind with any calcium that is in your soil. My municipal water supply also uses fluoride but it is used minutely and my aquarium and plants have always been just fine. That being said, I personally would like to see fluoride removed from the water supply for a number of reasons.


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## docter (Jan 23, 2013)

Redbird1223 said:


> i knew someone who had a kid and saved the afterbirth to bring home. they buried it, planted a tree on top and called it the "Macayla" tree.



omfg I almost fell of the chair. I have never heard of this oh yeah the dead puppy thing is brutal. but what are ya gonna do right?.


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## tspimpin1118 (Jan 24, 2013)

What started as my worm bin slowly became a semi bokashi style indoor compost, but even after 3 weeks of being gone and not watering my worms were still fine and the bin still had moisture and lots of mycelium. I'm hypothesizing so don't get mad at me if this is wrong but my guess is that the fungi were able to pull moisture from the air (in my unfinished basement) where previous to adding LB and several collected forest fungi samples to my worm bin it would dry out very fast even though it had no drainage holes and would have standing water. now it does have drainage holes and was able to retain more moisture fore a longer period of time then before, and now the moisture is more evenly distributed in my bin rather then being layered. ...

also many wouldn't consider this organic necessarily but I'm using the GLR or 12/1 with CFL's and I'm impressed. I think for those people who are not just interested in growing organically but also more sustainably.


also someone mentioned banana peals... I have heard in the past the they can be put with germinating seeds to help promote female's because of particular hormones... all bananas are female (funny how they are phallic shaped) .. I however haven had exp with this....

another person mentioned fish... I just read somewhere last night about a guy who would use a can of sardines and the water inside as well.. I imagine you could go to a grocery store fish counter and ask for fish scraps.. or sea food restaurant...but mercury is also something you might be concerned with 

also wondering if anyone has used companion crops or cover crops... i was thinking about maybe trying to grow alfalfa in my wormkashi bin and I did have a garlic clove growing with one of my plants but it didn't survive my three week absence like my girls..



-TopSoil


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## knawlejj (Jan 24, 2013)

You and me both....kinda weird imo


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## FR33MASON (Jan 24, 2013)

With cover crops you need to test your soil to see where there is an abundance or deficiency. Out on the farm, we use cover crops but like I just mentioned, the soil is tested first to determine the best cover crop to remedy the issue.


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## Dr.J20 (Jan 26, 2013)

Hey you guys,
I've been trying to scour the interwebs to see if anyone has heard of/ used earth juice amazon bloom soil to make an AACT?

a dude at a local hydro shop gave me this recipe for a bloom tea and wanted to hear some opinions about using it in a soilless organic hempy (100% perlite):

Amazon Tea
1. Tap water.
2. Amazon Bloom: 1/2 cup per gallon. Place in a fine nylon bag or just add and stir. Materials will float.
3. Earth Juice Catalyst: 2 Tbsp per gallon.
4. Aerate the solution for 12-24 hours.
5. Filter and store cold (refrigerate). Best to use within 2-4 weeks.
Use as a component to a complete plant maintenance -fertilization program

seems like the recommendation is to use the tea throughout both stages of growth, but look at the ingredients of the soil: peat moss, forest compost, coconut coir, feather meal, bat guano, marinebird fossilized guano, steamed bone meal, sulfate of potash, magnesia from langbenite, neem meal, earthworm castings, sea kelp (ascophyllum nodosum), humate ore (leonardite), oyster shell lime
I'd think throwing some molasses in the tea would make a pretty balanced tea...
So anyone with some AACT knowledge weigh in on this...i'm trying to get some modified organics going in the passive hydro aka hempy world--thinking the mycorrhizal activity could colonize the root zone, and since I will be watering with H2O+molasses with EJ hydro-organics supplements as needed, the micro-hoard should survive and thrive...thoughts anyone? 

Be easy,
Dr.J​


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## blueberrylabs (Jan 28, 2013)

Making beneficial tea with water from my aquarium? Anyone try this before? I don't see how it couldn't be helpful., I feed my fish blood worms and fishmeal/algea pellet, then they poop it out in the water that is filtered and airated 24/7. Anyone want to way in on this please.


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## Cann (Jan 29, 2013)

use that tank water, its full of goodies. do some research into aquaponics and you will better understand the nitrogen cycle with nitrites, nitrates, ammonia, etc. Basically, if your fish are happy, the fish water will make your plants happy. Too much nasties in the water = dead fish, obviously you wouldn't want to use this water for plants...otherwise I say do it, but research the dilutions etc and understand the nitrogen cycle first.


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## ecsdf1 (Jan 30, 2013)

unconventional organic cal/mag supplementation (seasoned growers advice appreciated) 

I was wondering if it would be practical or even good for the plant to use natural spring water to add cal/mag and other minerals to the very low ppm r/o water i currently use? I was thinking of a 1:3 ratio Perrier:R/O water every 2 weeks could be a good starting point. Any input or thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated

(Perriers' mineral profile and ph was the one that caught my eye initially) 
 CountryFranceSourceVergèzeTypesparklingpH5.46Calcium (Ca)147.3Chloride (Cl[SUP]&#8722;[/SUP])21.5Bicarbonate (HCO[SUB]3[/SUB])390Fluoride (Fl)0.12Magnesium (Mg)3.4Nitrate (NO[SUB]3[/SUB])18Potassium (K)0.6Sodium (Na)9Sulfates (SO)33TDS475Websitehttp://www.perrier.comAll values in milligrams per liter (mg/l)

I saw Snafu's posts on sparkling water and decided this would be a better place to post this query. 

​


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 31, 2013)

Found a NICE read pertaining to organic gardening and thought I'd share it 

http://www.organicgardening.com/learn-and-grow/compost-soil/soil


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## Dr.J20 (Jan 31, 2013)

So would it be a shortcut to an AACT recipe to take something like FF happy frog, add some alfalfa meal and molasses, and brew that shit up? I mean obviously it would be wise to do an accurate cross reference but the general idea here is to buy a small bag of some kind of organic mix, add some compost or ewc, some carbs, and some organic matter, and voila, everything you need to assemble an AACT? or are the ratios of the things you need all thrown off by having 'em in the bag mixed up?


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 1, 2013)

It wouldn't be a shortcut bro, it'd be a descent AACT to take *"FF happy frog, add some alfalfa meal and molasses, and brew that shit up"*.

Better to use something like Kelp meal as it provides a lot of different thing in a general tea application.
Kelp Meal is know for its growth enhancing hormones and also helps to build up fungi in teas we brew. Mostly everything else will multiply bacteria in substantial numbers it seems. I use liquid fish as well(Neptunes Harvest)

But basically you want to multiply microbes in the tea. You add the amendments and compost of your choice(or EWCs) to introduce the microbes to the environment.
The molasses and the oxygenation are supplied to feed the herd of microbes and keep the aerobic. In turn they're mulitipled.

Ratios are important tho as too much of anything is never good. And you gotta find out what adds what to your teas so that you know what you're adding.
Finding the balance is the magic...IDK if I have yet tho. I've used lots of different tea mixtures to this point just to keep it varying and I've seen nothing but green outta my plants.

I use a gallon jug of water to brew in and a 10gal fish tank pump to inject oxygen.
These are all the things that I've used to make my teas to date.

http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/algamin-kelp-meal-5lb/dp/2714 *<-KELP MEAL*
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001WV6GY/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00 *<-INDONESIAN BAT GUANO*
http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/worm-castings-wiggle-worm-white-30lb/dp/4810 *<-EWC's for compost*
http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/ocean-forest-1-5-cu-ft/dp/3250 *<- FFOF(my amended mix for compost)*
http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/neptunes-fish/dp/11671 *<-Neptune's Harvest Liquid Fish*
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Grandma-39-s-Original-Unsulphured-Molasses-12-oz/15716722 *<- Unsulphured Molasses*

There are a TON of things you can mix and match to use bro. There's nothing specific.
When I run out of the amendments I have, I'll try like Liquid Seaweed instead of liquid fish..Start using alfalfa meal as well.

Theres a lot of shit out there bro...I just have what I for a start so to speak...The more I learn, the more different things I'll try .

Try to find a book called Teaming With Microbes. The answers your looking for are there for sure bro. Good luck


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## Dr.J20 (Feb 1, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> It wouldn't be a shortcut bro, it'd be a descent AACT to take *"FF happy frog, add some alfalfa meal and molasses, and brew that shit up"*.
> 
> Better to use something like Kelp meal as it provides a lot of different thing in a general tea application.
> Kelp Meal is know for its growth enhancing hormones and also helps to build up fungi in teas we brew. Mostly everything else will multiply bacteria in substantial numbers it seems. I use liquid fish as well(Neptunes Harvest)
> ...


hey man thanks for the response! I'm reading teeming with microbes this weekend...so far its awesome! So yeah ok I'll go ahead with my theory...gonna do 5 gallon brews with two airstones and a 100gal pump...i hope i'm not pissing up a rope with this endeavor though, i'm gonna be doing hempy and my medium is inert so i m gonna plan on applying teas once every week or two weeks but I'm worried about the pH differences...looks like a lot of teas can be almost alkaline (pH > 7-7.5ish) and for Hempy watering pHs are really best between 5.8 and 6.4...oh well we'll see!
Be easy,

Dr.J


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 1, 2013)

Well.....if your mediums are pretty inert, applying teas won't do much for you bro.
Applying teas feed the soil which in turn feed the plant. Whats you medium consist of?


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## Dr.J20 (Feb 1, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Well.....if your mediums are pretty inert, applying teas won't do much for you bro.
> Applying teas feed the soil which in turn feed the plant. Whats you medium consist of?


what about using AACT for mycorrhizal inoculation in the root zone? I'm planning on using hydro-organic nutrients which still need to be broken down in the food web... I'm debating 100% perlite v. coco/perlite v. traditional hempy mix (perlite:vermiculite)...I'm still looking into this because I'm not entirely sure AACT wont do anything, just not as much as it would in soil, and there is also the prospect of foliar feeding with aact to help fight off pests, thrive through stress, and beat bad fungus and bacteria....also, the plural of medium is media. 
be easy,
Dr.J


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## Bud Brewer (Feb 1, 2013)

I use a few things moittly alfalfa a cup worth with two cups water I just keep adding and blending till I got three cups I put that in a gallon along with a tbsp of apple cider vinegar and molasses then I add a b-complex and let it ferment for a few weeks shacking it up every couple of days with a loose lid then use one cup of that per gallon.

I have brewed coffee twelve cups to two gallon with the grounds as top dressing.

I use a cup of blended oats with vinegar and molasses to two gallons water. 

Also expired and fresh milk at two tbsp per gallon in flower. 

I add sea salt at a half tsp to a gallon every other watering. 

Every once I while I use urine starting at 20 to 1 for small plants then 10 to 1 for bigger plants when I think they need a shot of nitrogen. 

Earth worm castings at one cup per gallon for large plants.

I also blend leaf one cup to a gallon and let it ferment with the usual goodies.

My plants are loving It a couple of weeks to go.


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 1, 2013)

Dr.J20 said:


> what about using AACT for mycorrhizal inoculation in the root zone? I'm planning on using hydro-organic nutrients which still need to be broken down in the food web... I'm debating 100% perlite v. coco/perlite v. traditional hempy mix (perlite:vermiculite)...I'm still looking into this because I'm not entirely sure AACT wont do anything, just not as much as it would in soil, and there is also the prospect of foliar feeding with aact to help fight off pests, thrive through stress, and beat bad fungus and bacteria....also, the plural of medium is media.
> be easy,
> Dr.J


Last Ive read bro...
If you're gonna add mycos to that AACTs, you should do it within that last couple hours or so becuase it'll develop into a bioslime like jelly substance.
I just got some mycos and had plants that were well established, so I sprinkled 3 tsp over the topsoil and watered them nicely. 
Looks like I still seem some spores on top of the soil, but not even a percentage of what prob. worked it's way in, given I sprinkled 3tsps on top of each.(1tsp per gallon of soil).
Normally you wanna treat the roots with mycos during transpant tho.

And if you can build up and restore your source of humus, teas would do you a lot better.
But you'd be right on to foliar feed for for pest protection.

I just know so far that the better the soil, the more the teas are gonna do.
A little reading and research and I'm sure you'll be good bro. I'm still trying to sort thru all this ish. In a decade I should be good haha


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 1, 2013)

^^^^^ Just an example of all the different things you can do heyy


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## mushead (Feb 5, 2013)

what kind of aloe you guys like? ive been tring it out for my neem spray but i like yucca much better. mine seems to have a decent amount of sodium in it, not sure why its so high. also i use to crush up and burn egg shells, or oyster shells, burn them into a powder with a torch and add it to vinegar for about a week, strain(if needed) and dilute with water. now i dont have time but i found a different product i like the sounds of, algeacal. buddy of mine grows vegan and swears by it. anyone else?


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## King Cobra (Feb 8, 2013)

*Hi all. 
Dryed crushed beetles, go to your local pet store they sell all sorts of bugs there for pet food. Also horse poo is a good one for outdoor. A friend told me organic green tea, aloe vera juice(cold pressed). Keep your fish bones or go to your local fish monger they always have loads..then dry the bones in the oven( slowly on a very low temp) eventually the fishy smell will be minimal, then grind the to a powder and mix into your soil. Seaweed is probably the best fert in the world for plants, almost every bottled fert contains it and its the fastest growing plant in the world. Did you know that the waste from your septic tank gets sprayed onto the fields in farming countries to fertilize the soil. Just imagine how many times your tap water has passed through the sewage system and been cleaned and drunk again and agian!!Goes to show--humans have been fertilizers from day one!!*


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 10, 2013)

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/14711855_The_microbiology_of_bottled_natural_mineral_waters

Snaf,

The Perrier is alive!


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## leadtrimmer1 (Feb 10, 2013)

That sounds very... unnecessary haha #amendments


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## Cann (Feb 10, 2013)

Perrier: Nestle. If you know anything about Nestle you won't use Perrier, San Pellegrino, Acqua Panna, Pure Life, Poland Springs, Ice Mountain, etc. All bottled water is terrible...but that is besides the point. Nestle is a horrible, horrible corporation. When you buy bottled water from Nestle, or any bottled water for that manner, you have _no _idea what could be in that bottle...and neither does the company selling it. You are much better off with clean creek water, or rainwater, etc. if you are looking for minerals/micronutrients. _Fuck bottled water, and Fuck Nestle. _Can't believe folks in the organics section would advise this type of behavior...

If anyone is curious, or wants to know why using Perrier is absurd, here are a few great documentaries about bottled water. You will never purchase/drink bottled water after watching any one of these..

_F.L.O.W. For Love Of Water_ : By Irena Salina

_Tapped

Blue Gold: World Water Wars _based of the book by Maude Barlow and Tony Clarke


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 10, 2013)

unless you 2 only ride bicycles, refuse to wear shoes made by the hands of little foreign children, and do not use american currency for your day to day transactions than why would you waste your time informing me about how bad a certain type of water is? ( there are probably things about yourself you could change that would have a far greater impact imo)
" let he who is without sin cast the first stone" I thought this was "unconventional" not fascist organics. I am just looking for advice from open minded people p.s. im not dogging on you guys just saying nobody's perfect. If i wanna use perrier and seek advice on using perrier ......so be it you shouldn't try to shoot me down from some moral high ground.


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 10, 2013)

if you have some qualm about using a branded bottled water than get a soda stream and carbonate your holy water and try it. The shit does something wonderful for container gardening. I had my doubts at first as well.


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 10, 2013)

Leadtrimmer- That sounds very... unnecessary haha #amendments






Hashtag!? are you serious?


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## Cann (Feb 10, 2013)

lol someone is bitter...

show me one peer reviewed legitimate scientific study highlighting the effects of carbonated water on the rhizosphere. there is a difference between unconventional and ignorant...

watch one of those documentaries and you will be biting your tongue lmao...keep on drinkin the nestle crap dude....see where that gets you. not trying to "shoot you down from my moral high ground" I just can't sit around on an _organic _forum and see people promoting the use of Nestle products without saying something...maybe if this was on the hydro forum I would let it pass and just laugh it off...but here its some bullshit. we are all growing organically because we care about the earth...using Nestle water for your ladies is akin to using miracle grow in my mind...your supporting the slow destruction of our mother! shouldn't be allowed...

that being said, if you really need your carbonated water, sodastream is a much better call. maybe try a sprouted seed enzyme tea and compare the results to carbonated water. you'll throw the bottles away and go buy 50lbs of barley seed lol.._.trust me_


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 10, 2013)

hmmmm.............


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 10, 2013)

Cann -"show me one peer reviewed legitimate scientific study highlighting the effects of carbonated water on the rhizosphere. there is a difference between unconventional and ignorant"...

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/32/7/1197.full.pdf+html


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 10, 2013)

the name of this particular study is "the effects of rhizosphere carbon dioxide on the nutrition and growth of peach trees" and it is an interesting read indeed. 

Cann were these guys and gals ignorant as well for wondering the same thing as myself?
jj


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## Cann (Feb 10, 2013)

No these folks weren't ignorant for asking this question...but you are ignorant for not reading their results! lol. 

_*Results*_

_Soil CO2 experiment. 

"Trunk diameter, total shoot length, leaf mass, wood mass, leaf area, total aboveground mass, and soil pH *were not significantly affected by the treatments* (data not presented). Root length density was greatest for the 5% CO2 treatment and least for the control and air treatments (Table 1). Leaf mineral content at harvest was unaffected by the treatments except for P, which was higher in the 5% CO2 and control treatments than in the air treatment (0.27%, 0.27% and 0.25% P, respectively, P < 0.05). Leaf N concentration in the 5% CO2 treatment was significantly reduced compared to the air and control treatments at all three sampling dates (4.0%, 4.3%, and 4.3% respectively, P<0.10)"

_Unless you are super concerned about minute differences in root length density, or for some reason want more P and less N in your leaves - it is a waste of money/natural resources to use carbonated bottled water on your plants. If you are still concerned about root CO2, focus on the microbes - they are the earth's natural source for root CO2. From the first line of the study:

_"Carbon dioxide in the rhizosphere is derived from the respiration of soil microbes and fauna, plant roots, and via diffusion of CO2 from the atmosphere (Curtis et al., 1995)."


_Just my 2 cents, I am not claiming to be an expert on soil...but this is not expert material. If this process was truly effective it would be employed at nurseries throughout the country. Ask your local nursery and see what they say...LOL


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 11, 2013)

Cann-"show me one peer reviewed legitimate scientific study highlighting the effects of carbonated water on the rhizosphere."

me- "ok here you go"http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/32/7/1197.full.pdf+html

Cann- " you are still dumb"

me - the end result you wanted the study for me to post to have was never discussed. you simply said "show me one peer reviewed legitimate scientific study highlighting the effects of carbonated water on the rhizosphere." Was that not up to par? i feel like i hit it on the head that study has everything positives and negatives. Though again because i cannot prove i am right and you are wrong(which i was never trying to do) with copy and paste you insist to vocalize how intelligent you are and stupid others are. CANN YOU ARE A FUCKING DUCK!


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 11, 2013)

Cool out kid. I'm sure he's just trying to save you time and effort. Smoke something lol and take the advice or leave it


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## Rising Moon (Feb 11, 2013)

ecsdf1 said:


> Cann -"show me one peer reviewed legitimate scientific study highlighting the effects of carbonated water on the rhizosphere. there is a difference between unconventional and ignorant"...
> 
> http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/32/7/1197.full.pdf+html



This study is not relevant. They sprayed the ground with chemicals, thereby killing the microbes and bacteria in the soil, that produce everything plants need to grow, like Co2. 

Maybe this technique works for farms who have no microbes because they spray, but real deal living organics, would shit on that study any day in my book. Nature has her cycles figured out, no carbonated water nessisary.


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## Rising Moon (Feb 11, 2013)

And one more thing, citing peer reviewed papers in the unconventional organics section is, well, unconventional for this thread. 

Scientific studies in the field of agriculture are focused on "fixing" problems and fighting natural systems for the most part. 

Even traditional organic agriculture is focused on the wrong aspect of plant growth IMO. 

I now see the goal of agriculture is to return the earth to a state of equilibrium, where the needs to the earth, animals and humans are simultaneously met. And the cosmic, earthy, ethieric and Spiritual forces become the farmers main objectives. 
An alchemist, with feet on the earth, and consciousness in the stars.


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## Cann (Feb 11, 2013)

thank you rising moon for being the voice of reason...see what I have to deal with here? lmao...

ecsdf1 chill the fuck out dude...ask around...i'm not a dick...just can't stand fools who are advocating the use of bottled water in organic soil LMAO...and especially fools who won't listen when others are trying to help. 

yes, i asked for a study, and you provided one. I guess what I should've said is - show me one peer reviewed study that concluded CO2 in the rhizosphere was _benficial_
and as rising moon said, the study is full of issues. definitely not geared towards organic farmers...but even if you read close you will see that the control and 5% CO2 were basically identical. 

ever read the book teaming with microbes? do yourself a favor and get a copy...and don't post again until you have read it. we are trying to help here, but when hardheaded individuals show up and try to push their methods down others' throats with no regards to the consequences (both for your plants, other people, and the earth) I get fed up. 


have you ever pissed on your plant? i heard it boosts immunity, stimulates cell division, and increases health in the rhizosphere....


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## gnl68 (Feb 11, 2013)

common knowledge, so for those that tell others whats right and wrong they should learn more before claiming to know all! mr. raptor u r right bro!


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 11, 2013)

^^^ what???


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 11, 2013)

Cann,

I understand why you feel how you feel about the bottled waters.
I didn't feel like i was jamming any of "my" methods down anyones throat in the slightest.

Sincerely420,

The real voice of reason here. thx


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 11, 2013)

Cann -Unless you are super concerned about minute differences in root length density.

I am. ( more interested than concerned )

Honestly asking your opinion now.The most important parts of the roots are very small so could even a slightly more dense or slightly longer rootsystem aid the plant in any way in your opinion?


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 11, 2013)

Theoretically, more roots means more branching and foliage, which mean more production in the end.
I guess the fact of the matter is that there are more efficient ways to increase the root mass like treating with mycos, watering appropriately, and maybe using a smart pot? IDK if there one answer tho. More like a few things you can do to help yourself out 

A lot of the things they talk about are still foreign to me, but I've creeped around long enough here to see that CN and RM are up to their necks in organics..I'm just getting started ha, so I chime in when I can...like now..

and who knows man..maybe you might find a niche somewhere with the above...Apparently prob not lol, but hey this was for unconventional organics lol.


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 12, 2013)

^^^

I know the benefits of mycos, aeration, and i despise smart pots lol
I am talking about using this in conjuction with all of these awesome organic techniques not in lieu of.


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 12, 2013)

You'd get everything you need mineral wise from Kelp Meal and Azomite/Rock Dust. 
You can do more benefical things with the H20 like brew AACT's .


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 12, 2013)

Azomite is the bees knees!
Long as you let it compost for 6 months lol More recently i have turned to an electric coffe bean grinder for all of my stone derived amendments such as azomite. It turns them into a fine powder and i believe helps them be broken down by the fung and bac much easier.

one last thing! lol i second what another member has already posted on here i believe the co2 creates a slight disturbance in the entire container ( but not like bumping it where soil just settles and compacts with the roots .... i believe its quite the opposite almost a lifting effect on everything in the pot) kind of an uber aeration! 

For the sake of this thread no more carbonated water talk from me! lol


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## Rising Moon (Feb 13, 2013)

Why do you despise smart pots?

I just switched over my whole garden to them, loving it! 

But now I need drainage tables to step up my game.


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 13, 2013)

I despise them because I had to pay so much for them lol. That's the ONLY issue I'm having is debating whether to transplant a smaller plant like 3 weeks into flowering into the now as my soil just finished cycling..What do you think RM? Transplant or just wait it out?


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## Cann (Feb 13, 2013)

3 weeks flower...? don't fuck with it. the latest I will transplant is 2 weeks flower and even then I feel it is often detrimental...1 week flower is okay, but still not good. best to transplant a few weeks _before _flower to give the lady some time to settle into her new home. at 3 weeks you will probably just shock her and reduce budset. 

that being said, if you have soil that just finished cycling (what do you mean by this?), you could apply a topdress of the new soil and see if that helps. As a general rule of thumb for most issues, I would recommend a topdress of EWC, kelp, crab, and neem meal if you have it. almost any topdressing will take a week or two to be metabolized by the food web in the soil and reach your plants, so keep this in mind...at 3 weeks flower you are pushing it on the practicality of the topdress. 

what issues are you having exactly? it wasn't clear from your post...

regardless, the topdress will provide almost everything your plant needs once it becomes available...can't really hurt


either that, or buy a whole case of perrier and flush, flush, flush! one case (12 bottles) per plant should be good IMO


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 13, 2013)

Cann said:


> 3 weeks flower...? don't fuck with it. the latest I will transplant is 2 weeks flower and even then I feel it is often detrimental...1 week flower is okay, but still not good. best to transplant a few weeks _before _flower to give the lady some time to settle into her new home. at 3 weeks you will probably just shock her and reduce budset.
> 
> that being said, if you have soil that just finished cycling (what do you mean by this?), you could apply a topdress of the new soil and see if that helps. As a general rule of thumb for most issues, I would recommend a topdress of EWC, kelp, crab, and neem meal if you have it. almost any topdressing will take a week or two to be metabolized by the food web in the soil and reach your plants, so keep this in mind...at 3 weeks flower you are pushing it on the practicality of the topdress.
> 
> ...


Click my sig if you don't mind bro, and look at the last page or so and you can see pics the latest pics and maybe that'll help you visualize what I'm about to say.

But I'm not having any issues, I just want to transplant my Critical Jack and a bag seed which, is obviously Sativa dominant to bigger pots.
I just got some smart pots and figured they'd be the perfect candidates.

They've been on 12/12 all but a week of their existence and they're now 41 days from seed, and appear to be about two weeks into flowering.
I did a lot of reading and come to the conclusion that I'll transplant them tomorrow. They're all in a under a gallon of soil currently and want to up them to the 3gal smart pots.
I'm growing in grow bags so I can cut them off without disturbing the root mass at all. 

And when I say I have soil that just finished cycling..I mean cooking. 
I mixed the batch up a month ago today, so it's ready for use now.

But I've got a lot going on in my garden ATM so you wouldn't be able to understand without seeing.
I don't have any one prob tho. Other than my recent OD of molasses. I up'd the dosage of molaases in my tea to 3tbsp per gal and my plants didn't like it AT ALL. They yellowed progressively from the bottom for a couple day, I did a semi flush I guess as I just gave them an extra half gal of H20, ad I top dressed them with EWC, mycos, and Kelp. Don't have crab or neem atm.

BUT....The OD of Mollases also showed up on the leaves of one of my plants in the form of necrosis.
Would seem like an excess of sugars would show up in the leaves right away given the photosynthesis process...
Besides...Upping the molasses was the only thing I did different last week, so its without a doubt the cause of my issues..

I figure adding the ewcs will help things out and I'll add a layer of the new soil with the next watering to help things even more..

And perrier? what?


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 13, 2013)

Rising Moon said:


> Why do you despise smart pots?
> 
> I just switched over my whole garden to them, loving it!
> 
> But now I need drainage tables to step up my game.


I feel what many organic container gardeners feel.
In an organic container grow it is best to keep the center of the rootball and soil/pot moist. The edges can dry out and thats just fine, but when that center starts to get too dry i feel you lose beneficial bac and fungi by the tens of thousands if not by the millions very quickly. ( no bueno )

I like my microherd to take as few "hits" as possible. 
I feel the smart pots dry out far too quickly. especially with the amount of fans i have circulating the air in my rooms
I do not have the time to water everyday or multiple times a day so i rock 20 gallon pots with a few holes poked in the sides in random spots to discourage the "root circling". Fill it full of amended roots organics green light potting soil .... topdress during flower if need be... a little of this a little of that and bam! 

I have yet to be dissapointed with this method!

I retract my previous statement of "despising" smarts pots.
They just weren't for me ... just caused me more work ugh! lol, but i guess everybodies situation is a little different 

If they wrok for you than fuck what i think brotha lol rock them bitches til the seams bust!

Peace n Respect


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 13, 2013)

Cann said:


> either that, or buy a whole case of perrier and flush, flush, flush! one case (12 bottles) per plant should be good IMO


Is this clown still jabbin at me for this? lol


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 13, 2013)

Lol IDK. I know it threw me or a loop at the end of the response tho. 
You can't throw a high mind a curve ball lol I just realized he was referring to you.
But several google side by sides have confirmed to me that they were worth the investment
$7 is a lot for a pot to a dude like me haha. I like money to much to be waisting it, but I enjoy weed enough to wanna give it every chance I can to thrive indoor


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 13, 2013)

The only thing anyone here should be flushing is there fucking toilet. jj


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 13, 2013)

^^^^^
in my opinion. lol


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## Rising Moon (Feb 14, 2013)

I didn't really buy that explanation about root balls, smart pots, micro herd etc. 

Sounds like you may be talking out of your ass again?

But whatever,


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## Rising Moon (Feb 14, 2013)

Quotes taken from 1957 USDA Soil agriculture yearbook. 

"microbes are most active in a moist soil. Microbial activity is depressed when a soil is extremely wet or dry. Air is excluded from the soil pore spaces in a wet soil, and lack of air slows decomposition. Although microbial activity is less when soil moisture is low, *many microbes remain rather active when soil moisture is below the wilting point for crops*."



The microherd can handle the wet/dry,

It sounds like AIR and being able to BREATHE, is a bigger factor in survival.


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## psychoholic22 (Feb 14, 2013)

Can I use maple tree leaves in a tea? I have a bucket that has some leaves in it over the winter well its full of rain water can I just bottle that water up and use it as a tea mix 10:1 with water? Would it really have a effect on the plant like a fertilizer If so what would it's range be 5-5-5 8-10-8 I mean we really won't know for sure but is there a range when making a tea like this? This stuff is like dark dark tea...


Edit : forgot will this be good for budding too?


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## Cann (Feb 14, 2013)

Rising Moon is right that you are straight talking out of your ass...the microbes in your soil can survive on very little moisture. Think of what would happen in nature if the soil biota died with drought. Plants would've died off once and then never came back....have some faith in natural systems!

That being said, here is the science behind it. From _Teaming With Microbes_:
_
"Hydroscopic water is a thinner film of water, only a few molecules thick, which, like capillary water, attaches to extremely small soil particles by virtue of electrical properties. This film is so thin that the bonds between water molecules and soil particles are concentrated and extremely hard to break. Roots cannot absorb it, therefore, but this film of water is critical to the ability of many microbes to live and travel. Even when conditions are dry, the soil particulate surface holds some hydroscopic water;* it is impossible to remove it from the soil without applying lots of heat and actually boiling it off"
*

_and there you have it...

i use 4.6 gallon airpots and 5 gallon smartpots and i only have to water once every 3 days. there are 5 fans in my room plus an A/C unit and dehumidifier and I run 3000+ watts. you should never have to water your smartpots every day unless you are growing trees out of a 1 gallon lol. not sure where you went wrong....


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 14, 2013)

psychoholic22 said:


> Can I use maple tree leaves in a tea? I have a bucket that has some leaves in it over the winter well its full of rain water can I just bottle that water up and use it as a tea mix 10:1 with water? Would it really have a effect on the plant like a fertilizer If so what would it's range be 5-5-5 8-10-8 I mean we really won't know for sure but is there a range when making a tea like this? This stuff is like dark dark tea...
> 
> 
> Edit : forgot will this be good for budding too?


Why maple tree leaves? In what way do you think old wet leaves would add an nutritional value to the soil ecosystem?
Old leaves can be use in a composting for the lead mold...

Seems like it would be pointless to put leaves in a tea off whim but it's possible you know something I don't


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Rising Moron-
then why ask my opinion? dipshit.


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Rising Moron- 2/11/13
And one more thing, citing peer reviewed papers in the unconventional organics section is, well, unconventional for this thread. 

Rising Moron 2/14/13
Does exactly that. lol


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Cann said:


> Rising Moon is right that you are straight talking out of your ass...the microbes in your soil can survive on very little moisture. Think of what would happen in nature if the soil biota died with drought. Plants would've died off once and then never came back....have some faith in natural systems!
> 
> _*It was an opinion... a thought i never stated what i felt about the air pots to be a fact. That was my opinion it is very possible that my conclusion could have been wrong, but that was my experience with them. (which is all i can give) ps^^^ you can only compare the ton of earth under a plant outdoors to a 20 gallon pot or (5gal in your case) in so many ways. ya dig? Longeviety of the benficials during drought conditions in my opinion is not one of them.*
> 
> _


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 14, 2013)

32 PRINCIPLES OF SOIL MICROBIOLOGY 

numbers, due to the fact that a continued dry period brings about a 
phenomenon similar to partial sterilization of the soil and with the first 
increase in moisture there is an increase of available organic and in- 
organic materials, leading to a rapid increase in bacterial numbers. 
Several investigators found larger bacterial numbers in the soil in sum- 
mer than in winter, the maximum being reached in July and August. 
In the spring of the year, with the increase in soil temperature, there is a 
corresponding increase in bacterial numbers. 62 It was suggested, 38 
however, that the water content of the soil is the most important factor 
bearing upon bacterial numbers: cultivation increases the number by 
increasing the water content. Engberding 38 was unable to demonstrate 
any influence of temperature upon the numbers of bacteria in mineral 
soils. This difference in results may be due to the difference in the 
composition of the soil. The numbers of bacteria (and protozoa) were 
even found to fluctuate from day to day. 63 Well-marked seasonal 
changes in the soil population are superimposed on the daily varia- 
tions in numbers. These changes are not directly influenced by tem- 
perature or rainfall, but show a similarity to the seasonal fluctuations 
recorded for many aquatic organisms.

SELMAN A. WAKSMAN 

Associate Professor of Soil Microbiology, 
Rutgers University, and Microbiologist of the 
New Jersey Agricultural Experiment Stations 

http://archive.org/stream/principlesofsoilx00waks/principlesofsoilx00waks_djvu.txt

Canns' response in 5,4,3,2 ......... I'm looking forward to this one brotha. jj


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## Rising Moon (Feb 14, 2013)

I didn't quote any peer reviewed paper. I quoted from a book, about soil, written by farmers, about basic facts, Get a life bro.

Who else wants to put this clown on ignore...?

And get back to the discussion, based on facts, established by experimental results or ancient knowledge.


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## Rising Moon (Feb 14, 2013)

Once again, did you even read what you copied/pasted...? we can all google a couple terms and copy and paste just about anything. But you are arguing against people who actually have experience with plants, and therefore, understand the topic they are discussing, it seems like you have lots of opinions, but not much experience or knowledge to back it up.

And, if your going to copy and paste, make sure its at least readable, not all jumbled up with random numbers thrown in for good measure. The bold trick was good, but I actually read the fine print as well...


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## Cann (Feb 14, 2013)

lol yeah looked like a quick google and c/p to me as well...

i'm with you on the ignore situation. bye bye ecsdf1...its been fun. go clog up some other thread with your childish behavior. and stop taking everything so damn personally lmao...sheesh

*

[h=2]This message is hidden because ecsdf1 is on your ignore list.[/h]


*
much easier on the eyes


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## Rising Moon (Feb 14, 2013)

Back to the topic...

Has anyone heard of, or tried putting a 1 inch layer of crushed granite/oyster shells at the bottom of smart pots to increase air flow? Now the floor is the only place I get circling roots, so I came up with this idea, probably from somewhere else ...

I've got an experiment running now. Jack Herer and Cheesequake with the rocks on the bottom, Jack Herer and Cheesequake without. 

So far, I like what I see from the "with rocks" pots. 

But is it worth the extra weight/expense? I shall see. My compost pile will be loving this mineral rich soil when I'm all done growing my plants and feed it back.


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 14, 2013)

It's common if you ask me RM. I've read/seen a lot of different places of different growers put medium sized rocks in the bottom of the soil to increase drainage...
IDK about granite dust tho or anything fine because it can turn to muck. I've seen those hydro rocks used to.
I mix my mineral amendments in from the start like everything else..

But in short, use bigger rocks on the bottom because the fine stuff could settle in together


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## Rising Moon (Feb 14, 2013)

Cool. I knew I had heard of others doing this, but wanted to see if some of the people in this thread are doing it as well. 

I guess I should have been more specific about what I am using as well. Its crushed granite and crushed oyster shells from the farm supply/feed store(marketed as grit for chickens) It's not really dusty, more like little chunks and stones.


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 14, 2013)

Rising Moon said:


> Cool. I knew I had heard of others doing this, but wanted to see if some of the people in this thread are doing it as well.
> 
> I guess I should have been more specific about what I am using as well. Its crushed granite and crushed oyster shells from the farm supply/feed store(marketed as grit for chickens) It's not really dusty, more like little chunks and stones.


Crushed Oyster shell is also used as a liming agent bro so you might wanna be careful with that.
I'd so do it with rocks of chunky perlite. I have perlite in the bottom of my grow bags(only the big 3)and haven't had an issue.

But do a quick Google search and you'll see what I mean in regards to the Oyster Shell....Perlite has no cation exhange capacity as far as I know so it doesn't hold anything in any runoff of nutritional val


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## psychoholic22 (Feb 14, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Why maple tree leaves? In what way do you think old wet leaves would add an nutritional value to the soil ecosystem?
> Old leaves can be use in a composting for the lead mold...
> 
> Seems like it would be pointless to put leaves in a tea off whim but it's possible you know something I don't



Ehh not really a whim just new and trying to figure it all out... I just wasn't really sure where to start...

So a tea needs to be made with the compost because of the bacterial growth now i'm starting to get it I have a compost pile now I just need to dig to the bottom and get some tea going


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## Rising Moon (Feb 14, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Crushed Oyster shell is also used as a liming agent bro



Exactly why I used it! Not to mention the Calcium aspect...

The influence it could make on my PH would be slight in the short amount of time I have these plants growing. But none the less, I am a huge believer in highly mineral rich soils as a key aspect of plant health. And my soil recipes tend to contain way more of all the rock dusts than many others add.


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 15, 2013)

psychoholic22 said:


> Ehh not really a whim just new and trying to figure it all out... I just wasn't really sure where to start...
> 
> So a tea needs to be made with the compost because of the bacterial growth now i'm starting to get it I have a compost pile now I just need to dig to the bottom and get some tea going


Different amendments serve different purposes bro. Check out the Organic soil link in my thread. You can find some info that I've posted there regarding the matter. And leaves won't brew you bacteria bro...Using your soil, EWCs, or some kinda compost will get that process started for you.
And yeahh I've you've got a compost pile go for it bro! Just don't use plain leaves...I think it would be a waste of time..
But yeah scrolling thru the little thread I made should help you bro


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## Bud Brewer (Feb 15, 2013)

Leaves will give you nutrience as will all organic matter I use my leaf I take off to feed my plants back just like nature intended they grow in last years leaf stem roots.

I put two cups water in a blender and keep adding and blending leaf till I have 3 cups total one cup of leaf then put that in a gallon and let it ferment with a tbs molasses, vinegar, a b vitamin.

I shake it up every day when it stops foaming it's done less than two weeks just give it a good shake before I use 1-4 cups to a gallon depending on the size of the plant.

Mostly I feed with alfalfa but also EWC, oatmeal, coffee, fruit.


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 15, 2013)

As far as I've learned bro, leaves in the sense that Psychoholic was referring to are ONLY good for leaf mold in compost.

And the methods that you've mentioned..They differ from what he was talking about greatly...
Hes talking about leaves that have been sitting in rain water over the winter not the ones from his plants

I know the old school method of brewing compost teas which is what your closer to doing if anything.
Aerating your compost tea supercharges it. That's what you want to do...AACTs are done in a day or two TOPS & require oxygenation.
Fermenting/plant extracts are a different thing tho. 

I'm not knocking your work tho. I know that what you do it your art, like what I do is mine...again I'm just trying to share some shit.
Ppl get hostile quick lol. I'm just conversing here so to speak 

*fucking typos


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## Bud Brewer (Feb 15, 2013)

I believe I get more out of it going through than natural cycle where elements break down into other forms and more can be leached out.
I haven't airated tea so can't really compare but I like having my consistant feed ready and partaly or mostly broken down.


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 15, 2013)

That's wassup. Look into the differences between an AACT and a compost tea tho and you should be able to see what I mean pretty easily.
You just might end up trying it haha you never know. I know I've got to look in to extracts more


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## Bud Brewer (Feb 15, 2013)

I have looked into airated teas but believe in the breakdown fermentation and as far as oxygen in the water some good strong shaking with a cap on will maximise it but you also have to shake up the feed mix to add oxygen to it also.

I will run a comparison one day.


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## King Cobra (Feb 19, 2013)

Wow..what a read!! A lot of im correct and your not and so on...
Ok so reading your posts firstly on bottled water--I have drank bottled water now for many years as I just cant cope with the fact that tap water has already gone through the human digestive system over 5-6 times before they actually change the res. But I would never drink or eat anything made by Netsle. I also feel that using carbonated water for your plants really does not make much of a difference (in soil) as your soil should have enough ailments in it to produce a sufficient amount of co2, that combined with the air coming into your room. I have been farming for years (not weed) but i have a few friends that grow weed. So i know the score!!. Anyway sitcking an airstone in your water before you water your plants for 15-20 mins should be plenty of c02 for your plants..remember a plant only takes what it needs and co2 is everywhere.

As for this dude that grinds stones in a coffee grinder lmao.. Air pots are reveloutionary, Just poking a few holes in the side of a pot is nothing like using an airpot!! They dont dry out too quick and can be used over and over again. You will never get rootbound in an airpot. Them silly ordinary pots are just a breeding ground for root rot etc. Put it this way IMHO like the internet ..old ordinary pots=dial up.. New airpots=fiber power its that simple.

Happy Growing Everyone.


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## DANKSWAG (Mar 10, 2013)

Has anyone seen my Passive Hydro setup using Super Soil journal?


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## st0wandgrow (Mar 30, 2013)

D3monic said:


> *When ever I plant a seedling I bury a live fish with it*. Nothing overly large, max 1"
> 
> This is more of a sacrificial thing than for nutrients but some provided obviously.







..... you do what??????


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## YB33 (May 6, 2013)

Dilluted epsom salt, milk, and urine

I'll see how it goes


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## herbbilly (Jun 4, 2013)

I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to teas and organics but my understanding is bio-diversity is the goal. So by aact'ing and brewing fermented teas/extracts in tandem you would do that. If somethings "better" but doesn't provide all your ingredients how good is it? I'm making blackberry bush everything, don't have bamboo KNF is really neat.


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## greasemonkeymann (Jun 28, 2013)

YB33 said:


> Dilluted epsom salt, milk, and urine
> 
> I'll see how it goes


highly recommend avoiding the milk....


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## DANKSWAG (Jun 29, 2013)

Say I've been reading up on possible health issues (Mad Cow) using bone meal. I use fish bone meal for that purpose of adding phosphorus. 
My understanding is that _Mycorrhizal fungi_ is best for getting available phosphorus in the soil to the roots. 

Does anyone here use cow bone meal? What are others using to provide this organically to their grow?


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## dankdope (Jul 5, 2013)

A good friend of mine lives in an off the grid hippy house. it has a "composting toilet" basicly a longdrop dunny with a big wooden crate underneath. everytime you do your business you throw a few handfuls of sawdust down (to help with odour) they replace the crate once full and let it compost for 12-18months. they use the compost on their vege and guerrilla gardens and it grows unbelievable plants.


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## st0wandgrow (Jul 6, 2013)

dankdope said:


> A good friend of mine lives in an off the grid hippy house. it has a "composting toilet" basicly a longdrop dunny with a big wooden crate underneath. everytime you do your business you throw a few handfuls of sawdust down (to help with odour) they replace the crate once full and let it compost for 12-18months. they use the compost on their vege and guerrilla gardens and it grows unbelievable plants.


I guess if it's working for them then there is no need to change things up ..... BUT, you're not really supposed to use human poop or any other type of feces that comes from carnivores (dogs, cats, etc). Pathogens can be spread easily that way. Cow, rabbit, alpaca, etc poop is a better option for composting. I suppose as long as they thoroughly wash the veggies before they eat them then all is well.


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## SeriousSports (Jul 6, 2013)

Hey guys,

I'm using this mix for aact tea right now. I've been diluting it 1 to 3 with water. The brew seems like it would be a light solution.... should I be diluting it that much? At all? If I'm correct I can feed aact every time.

I appreciate the insight.


- 1gal of water. 
- 3 Tablespoons compost
- 1/2 Teaspoon Neptunes Harvest Dry Kelp Meal
- 1/2 Teaspoon Neptunes Harvest Liquid Fish
- 1/2 Teaspoon Indonesian Bat Guano
- 1 Teaspoon Unsulphered Robust Molasses.


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## BCB...TCB (Jul 22, 2013)

dankdope said:


> A good friend of mine lives in an off the grid hippy house. it has a "composting toilet" basicly a longdrop dunny with a big wooden crate underneath. everytime you do your business you throw a few handfuls of sawdust down (to help with odour) they replace the crate once full and let it compost for 12-18months. they use the compost on their vege and guerrilla gardens and it grows unbelievable plants.


the best naturally available additive to an outhouse is ash from a fire. Sawdust, for someone living a subsistence lifestyle, is better used elsewhere. You can mix it with a cheap glue like elmers and have a great caulk or crack sealer or put it between the logs of a log cabin after the logs are dried. 

I use ash, urine, crap, veggies and fruits, molasses, and a few organic store-bought nutes, and that is about it. Sprinkling ash around the base of your plant will prevent any crawling insects from invading your plants and keep ants from making a nest at the base, which I have had them do.


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## k9259 (Jul 31, 2013)

What about dry dog food it has all kinds of minerals and bytes in it?


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## madamesalacious (Aug 5, 2013)

Our Seattle Woodland Park Zoo sells "zoo doo" each year. I used to buy it, but since I grow organic in soil, and found out from a friend and zookeeper that the beasties are often fed antibiotics routinely, I've stopped.


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## thecosmicgoat (Sep 26, 2013)

Im curious about using fresh kelp in compost tea. I've also started using soil from the forest in my teas. I have also been finding lately bear poop full of salmon carcasses, Im thinking of collecting some to compost? Bear manure full of fish enzymes its got to be good?


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## boblawblah421 (Sep 28, 2013)

SeriousSports said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm using this mix for aact tea right now. I've been diluting it 1 to 3 with water. The brew seems like it would be a light solution.... should I be diluting it that much? At all? If I'm correct I can feed aact every time.
> 
> ...



You should definitely not need to dilute this. Don't use it as a foliar during the heat of the day and you should be good.

Try making it without the fish. Then try making it without the guano. Try it again without the fish and the guano.

Diversity is good.

Less is more.

Experiment with your recipe. I like to brew my teas with the microbes for a few hours, and then ad the food sources. It seems to foam up super quickly once I ad my molasses/kelp if the microbes are already active in the water. Then the foam seems to go away quite rapidly as well, and you're left with a dank ass compost tea. The molasses smell goes away a little, and you can just smell that your tea is ready. 

I also like to brew my teas kind of on the stout side. I brew enough for about a day and a half, and dilute it after I've used about 60-70% as soon as it's ready. Stout on one day, and weak the next.


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## boblawblah421 (Sep 28, 2013)

thecosmicgoat said:


> Im curious about using fresh kelp in compost tea. I've also started using soil from the forest in my teas. I have also been finding lately bear poop full of salmon carcasses, Im thinking of collecting some to compost? Bear manure full of fish enzymes its got to be good?


If nothing else, I can almost guarantee that bear shit'll keep the deer, moles, etc out of your garden under the sun. I'd compost some down and use it in a year. See what happens.

I am also curious about getting down on some local kelp. It's not gonna be ascophyllum nodosum, but I bet it's just as good.


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## DANKSWAG (Dec 18, 2013)

dankdope said:


> A good friend of mine lives in an off the grid hippy house. it has a "composting toilet" basicly a longdrop dunny with a big wooden crate underneath. everytime you do your business you throw a few handfuls of sawdust down (to help with odour) they replace the crate once full and let it compost for 12-18months. they use the compost on their vege and guerrilla gardens and it grows unbelievable plants.


The sawdust is more than likely inoculated with LAB (lacto acid bacillus) it is used in BOKASHI composting, which in this case instead of kitchen scraps it is human waste.
It would be Humipost? as in Human dung compost. Even better if everyone is healthy and on a organic vegan diet!

I just don't know if I would eat anything grown by my shit, I would probably smoke my shit though!. I'm probably smoked someone's shit before, well I know I have smoked some stuff that taste like shit!

DankSwag


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## DANKSWAG (Jan 2, 2014)

WORD TO THOSE LOOKING TO SAVE SOME $$$

CloneX verses Straight Aloe Vera

Enough said.... Clone on left CloneX produced, clones on right Aloe Vera straight from the plant!
Same size clones, same soil base, light, water, temp and humidity. Even the shorter Aloe Clones to the right have more branch nodes compared to the cloneX on the left.
I had several cloneX clones this one was best of them all yet lagging behind the Aloe clones.
Not to mention all the Aloe Vera clones were topped days ago and I am still waiting on this clonex to develop more branch nodes so I can top her. 

You can see easily the growth number of branch nodes, clearly no need to over pay for CloneX when you can grow your own Aloe Vera as a rooting gel.


A close view CloneX on Left Aloe Vera on right

DankSwag
Seeing is believing. I will never again use CloneX if I have Aloe Vera on hand!


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## Farmer's Hat (Mar 15, 2014)

Using milk on your compost and in your garden will probably come as a surprise to most. Upon closer inspection, however, it starts to make sense. The amino acids, proteins, enzymes and natural sugars that make milk a food for humans and animals are the same ingredients in nurturing healthy communities of microbes, fungi and beneficial bacteria in your compost and garden soil. 


read more http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/milk-and-molasses-magic-zbcz1402.aspx#axzz2w0dnplCV


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## Native Humboldt (Mar 15, 2014)

I have been using fat free milk on powdery mildew for a couple of years. It really does work as long as the mildew is not out of control and the plants love it. I mix the milk I part to 9 parts water then store the left over in the refrigerator. I will try and remove the worst leaves then spray the plant down heavy. I would use it with caution as with any liquid toward the end of bloom to prevent brown mold. After the first spray wait a few days and hit it again. It has worked to control the PM in my garden for a couple years now and the plants love it. I will even do a preventive spray on my clones when there over crowded before planting.


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## VTMi'kmaq (Mar 15, 2014)

screw it i dont mind sharing some of my favorite tools for happy ladies here's one. https://oceansolution.com/ your welcome.


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## Dr.J20 (Mar 21, 2014)

the milk and molasses article is supremely fascinating. Native Humbolt, you said you use skim milk, is that organic skim from a local dairy or just something you pick up at the local grocery? or is raw milk better? I really love the idea of being able to use milk on the garden--anyone else have tips/experience with this?


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## Countyboy88 (Mar 21, 2014)

I make a homemade LAB with the milk and rice wash method. Works great. Trying SST with mung beans now courtesy of hyroots method. Used some right away, and froze the rest in ice cube trays for later. I wanna explore FPE's more if anyone has any good leads/experience... Nettles? ...comfrey? Anything? 

I dont post often, but man, ive been learning tons and things are looking great. Thanks for sharing everyone!


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## st0wandgrow (Mar 21, 2014)

Countyboy88 said:


> I make a homemade LAB with the milk and rice wash method. Works great. Trying SST with mung beans now courtesy of hyroots method. Used some right away, and froze the rest in ice cube trays for later. I wanna explore FPE's more if anyone has any good leads/experience... *Nettles? ...comfrey?* Anything?
> 
> I dont post often, but man, ive been learning tons and things are looking great. Thanks for sharing everyone!


Yes and yes. Dandelions are a good, plentiful, free item that can be fermented as well.

Check this link out. It's got some good info ...

https://www.frenchgardening.com/tech.html?pid=3164873867231346


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## st0wandgrow (Mar 22, 2014)

Sorry guys. This goober started a thread worrying about a single $7 seed that he ordered, and he's now apparently going to follow me around. I'm flattered.


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## RedCarpetMatches (Mar 26, 2014)

Can I stalk you stow...creeper smile. I'm recently interested in the frenchy style fermenting. Seen great results and very concentrated.


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## infocapitol (Mar 27, 2014)

From what I heard, unless you drink and bathe in purified water and eat all vegan and organic, I wouldn't recommend using that method. I have never tried the method though. I do know you only want to use herbivore manure for compost. I assume it would be the same for fertilizer. Just my two cents.


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## DANKSWAG (Apr 20, 2014)

Question about nettles, I've read where people let leaves and stems soak in non areated water left outside to break down outside where it becomes anaerobic and really smelly and you have to dilute it to use it.

So my thinking why not avoid the risk of bringing in harmful bacteria to the soil which could disrupt fungi balance and possible lower levels of aerobic bacteria by breaking down the leaves and stems in aerated water bucket. 

After two days I have some slight foam on top very little and a wonderful smelling lightly greenish yellow water that appears to have the bio activators or the appearance of due to how the water color has changed I can't help but think the biology in the plant matter is now in the water and I don't have to wait two weeks and it does not smell. I can just keep adding water and leaves when water color lightens to continue to bring these dynamic bio activators to my soil when watering correct? 

Anywise I should probably do a side by one with out the aerated nettle water, one with the anaerobic diluted form and one plain h20.

Unless someone has experience using their nettles this way I'd like to know.

DankSwag


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## matthewskyle22 (Apr 23, 2014)

Gotta love organics!


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## Abiqua (Apr 25, 2014)

DANKSWAG said:


> Question about nettles, I've read where people let leaves and stems soak in non areated water left outside to break down outside where it becomes anaerobic and really smelly and you have to dilute it to use it.
> 
> So my thinking why not avoid the risk of bringing in harmful bacteria to the soil which could disrupt fungi balance and possible lower levels of aerobic bacteria by breaking down the leaves and stems in aerated water bucket.
> 
> ...



Two things to think about.....One, aerobic takes more energy to catalyze a reaction then an anaerobic process. Moiety's may be used up more in aerobic process and not catalyze into inorganic states as readily vian an anaerobic process.

So in essence, you may be getting less in one regard, however I do think that ubiquitous BIM are present in an aerobic soak as well as facultative organisms.

P.s. forgive me I have been out of the loop and am not uber technical by any means here, my apologies....


The 2nd point is difference of solutions....Not trying to berate you or nitpick, but think about the differences chemically. Aerobically, the pH may drop a little, but likely the DO will help buffer that, while fermentation [ideally] is very low pH and releases the stink and residual alcohol [methane] while essentially oxidizing [here is where facultative organisms [fungi [yeasts], bacteria and actinomycetes: may play the largest role in fermentation setup.]

Basically different solutions are going to produce different soluble combinations.

Water will definitely take out saponins, anthocyanins and sugar molecule bound moietys. But it will not liberate say terpenes or terpinoids, but a fermenting solution may be able to liberate either.

Why do I give a shit? I am interested in the same things, but I have used Stinging Nettle [Urtica dioica] as my main fertilizer now for the last 4 years.

I use brewer's water traps to slow my gas releases when fermenting and there is a trick that brewer's use, where they will put something like vinegar or even soda into the trap to neutralize the smell.

Realistically that smell should last short of 2 weeks if that in a well prepared run. Sometimes if done right, you could figure out how to attack the ammonia even faster, chemically...

I find that longer fermentation [6 months or so] does very well.... [should say 5 months of air tight storage following fermentation][ it starts smelling like the most incredible dirt, aka the dirt smell is a chemical produced by actinomycetes] 

I can share more if interested, i.e titration amount and such


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## DANKSWAG (Apr 26, 2014)

Abiqua said:


> Two things to think about.....One, aerobic takes more energy to catalyze a reaction then an anaerobic process. Moiety's may be used up more in aerobic process and not catalyze into inorganic states as readily vian an anaerobic process.
> 
> So in essence, you may be getting less in one regard, however I do think that ubiquitous BIM are present in an aerobic soak as well as facultative organisms.
> 
> ...


Abiqua,

Thanks for the post. Lot's for me to digest 
I will get threw it, since seeing is believing can you detail your fermentation process and your application of the fertilizer. I really would like to duplicate what you use and how you use it and compare it to how I am currently using it. I'd appreciate that and I hope you don't mind if I ask you to put into layman's terms so of what you expounded upon already.


Much appreciated, may your harvest always be abundant and pleasing

DankSwag


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## Abiqua (Apr 27, 2014)

DANKSWAG said:


> Abiqua,
> 
> Thanks for the post. Lot's for me to digest
> I will get threw it, since seeing is believing can you detail your fermentation process and your application of the fertilizer. I really would like to duplicate what you use and how you use it and compare it to how I am currently using it. I'd appreciate that and I hope you don't mind if I ask you to put into layman's terms so of what you expounded upon already.
> ...



Yes, I actually have been working on it and taking some samples now....more up Monday!


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## Abiqua (May 16, 2014)

This is my container I am currently using. Which is 2.5 gallons I think.

I stuff it solid to about 3/4's and add water about 2 inches above this. Usually about 1-1.25 gallons.
Then I airlock it and when the airlock slows it movement and fermentation slows down, I usually bottle it and keep it cool and in the dark.

Here I am starting a new round, with fresh Nettle, American Vetch [upper right], Purple Peavine [lower left] and Hounds-tongue [lower right] HT is in the borage family and very closed related to comfrey. In the Half Gallon mason is some 6 month old Nettle/Horsetail rot, that I am using to charge the New Mix.

It took me a few years to identify all this stuff, but all weedy out in the clearcuts near me. I pick it for free.


Nice fungal mass developed during the "retting" process...I let it sit and rot before I stuff it in the jug sometimes. [Hounds-tongue]




Here is the brewer's trap, just a one way valve. You can use a tube and water in an S shape for DIY. 
[P.s. normally, I have the trap vertical.......not perpendicular to the container, however, I lost a big cork, so this will have to do for now!] 


More to follow, just wanted to get this up


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## Abiqua (May 16, 2014)




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## Chronikool (May 16, 2014)

Hunting and gathering....Nailing it!


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## Abiqua (May 16, 2014)

Chronikool said:


> Hunting and gathering....Nailing it!


Thank you.....this is just a small part............

I try and do everything I can from my surroundings. It took a while to get comfortable but I think I have the hang of it, just maybe


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## Abiqua (May 16, 2014)

Also started a batch of compost tea, but I added some DIY nettle powder and 1 tsp of dia barley malt too.. going to use my strips for an informal comparison to the ferment.


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## DANKSWAG (May 19, 2014)

Abiqua said:


> Also started a batch of compost tea, but I added some DIY nettle powder and 1 tsp of dia barley malt too.. going to use my strips for an informal comparison to the ferment.



How did that work out. When you let your nettle and horsetail sit is it in a dark cool place too? 
Right now I have a 5 gallon bucket full of dandelions in water for about two weeks it doesn't smell yet but it is breaking down.
Do I dilute with rain water and water my soil?

DankSwag


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## Abiqua (May 23, 2014)

DANKSWAG said:


> How did that work out. When you let your nettle and horsetail sit is it in a dark cool place too?
> Right now I have a 5 gallon bucket full of dandelions in water for about two weeks it doesn't smell yet but it is breaking down.
> Do I dilute with rain water and water my soil?
> 
> DankSwag



sorry for being so late, my uncle had a heart attack and passed away 3-4 days ago, been caught up......

I actually used the compost tea for my outdoor veggie garden, because of the poor droop I have been noticing............Tea is in cool place, just had the flash go ing next to a light [inspecting the foam!]....one thing I noticed was it produced a lot of heat, after the foam died down. I bubbled about 36 hours. Not crazy heat, but inside is 75 or so and outside was mildly cooler 65F, but the tea container was pleasantly warm, haven't experienced that before. [Sadly I didn't hit it with the thermometer for reference, rookie mistake ]


As far as the dandelions, when I started out I always used girls that weren't doing well as test cases....don't know if that is a helpful suggestion, but i never lost one this way...

And as far as dilution, I used to say start with 500:1 or 100:1 [think that may have been a 'Coot tip] .....Now I usually start at 50:1 for new batches , but I think mainly that 15:1 has a been a sweet spot, just in my experience. I leave clones in straight solution for :30mins or so, they always like it seems....


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## Abiqua (May 23, 2014)

Had some other info to pass, will be along shortly....

until then,here is a little screen shot from Oregon Biodynamic from the Accumulator page ::http://www.oregonbd.org/Class/accum.htm



Excellent choice on the dandelions....I think I have a batch that has sat for 2 years and looks none worse for the wear...have to do some kind of analysis [If it didn't get dumped]............ also like to use Marigolds flower too, the edible kind forgot the name right this moment


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## keysareme (Jun 2, 2014)

I decided to start peeing in my garden water every day. So far plants love it, and I know what I'm eating/drinking so I caught myself wasting valuable organic fertilizer and I stopped mid stream and went out back to the 5 gallon bucket I keep full of feed water.


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## keysareme (Jun 2, 2014)

How about growing in straight pure compost/vermicompost/ewc?

I put one seedling into a mix of 50/50 organic soil/ewc. 

But how about growing some plants in pure vermicompost? Like, you go into your worm bin or composter, and collect say enough to fill a small start container or red cup? and, see how the plant grows? Sounds worth the try to me?


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## keysareme (Jun 3, 2014)

Will have results in a few days, I did a feed of Organic Coconut Sugar Water.

Both to a girl in her last week of flower swelling, and to four cuttings that are two weeks into flowering.

I used a lot of sugar. It was a lot. I started with 1tblsp per gallon, but soon upped it. So, let's see what happens... 

Edit,
while I am sharing and all, I might as well say this too. I mixed 1 gallon of urine  to 4 gallons of water , and fed to all my plants in the garden today. 

Waking up the soil a bit hopefully.

Prior to that, and 4-5 hours after sunlight, I watered them all again with just clean, clear water. I will do another day of just clean watering, and resume with organic amendments the following. I will post results as I notice them.


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## ErieR33FER (Jun 3, 2014)

I have been told by an old grower/farmer that separating the egg whites from the yolk and adding toeggshel tea is a good way to boost it's nitrogen content.

I did it and besidethe smell it worked wonders on my pink Kush plant I had one year. It was in a tiny pot by I got like two ounces off it lol.


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## canadiankushman (Jun 17, 2014)

So do I absolutely need to ferment the dandelion tea? I have been making a regular compost tea but adding in puréed dandelions and nettles and my plants are growing like mad. Wouldn't these be eaten up in my soil just like the pruned shade leaves/branches that take just over 1 week to decompose while laying on top of the soil like mulch? I doubt it would even take as long as the leaves since the dandelion/nettle are puréed into a liquid..?

Ck.


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## Michael888 (Jul 13, 2014)

alfalfa tea is all a plant realy needs in veg groth ,iorn chelat /epson salt and alfalfa makes great tea .


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## Michael888 (Jul 13, 2014)

and not expencive !


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## J.Mike (Jul 14, 2014)

irieie said:


> How much should I piss in my plants. Should I piss directly into the pots or should I pee into a cup and then mix it with water. I am thinking about the second route because I have trouble stopping midstream so measuring word be tough. What


could not stop laughing, so seriously, If it has not been answered; urine is a sterile host of leftover unneccesary vitamins minerals etc. I tested my urine 1 oz/7oz h20 at 3210 ppm,5.2ph, so its great for the raw compost pile, but not directly into your plants. Assuming you eat a healthy balanced diet, urine is a very good source organics. I am testing my grow with 1oz urine mixed with blood meal tea, 1 cup blood meal, 1 quart h20 suntead one week, strained x2 and I use one fl oz daily to keep my ph and ppms up after nute change. so far with some benefits


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## dababydroman (Jul 16, 2014)

I put my beard in my compost pile.. and my finger nail clippings lol


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## GrowerGoneWild (Jul 18, 2014)

I've been experimenting with unconventional organics lately.. Just trying to recycle what I have and use it on plants.

1) Hempy bucket with a jack herrer clone, just mixed it in with spent coffee grounds. Not good, ended up with a small burnt plant. Ive been using coffee grounds on my other houseplants, they fukking love it, Cannabis in a hempy bucket using only grounds.. not good. 

2) Zen Potting soil, Chemdog clone. The soil is just outta the bag, its not very hot, good for seedlings, but after awhile I'm seeing MG/Ca deff.. Anyways, I've been pouring leftover veggie/fruit juice, as a top ammedment, I think she's looking better, 

I might try a eggshell, veggie/fruit juice slurry as a top feed.


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## dababydroman (Jul 18, 2014)

straight fruit juice maybe do it real light then let it cook for a few days then dilute


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## dababydroman (Jul 18, 2014)

straight fruit on the top will burn it forsure


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## GrowerGoneWild (Jul 18, 2014)

dababydroman said:


> straight fruit juice maybe do it real light then let it cook for a few days then dilute


No signs of burn so far. 

What difference does is make if I let it "cook?" The leftover juice I use is unpasturized, and if the juice starts to smell funny I just use it, I'm sure theres plenty of microbes in there. I want to feed soil microbes first with the sugars/carbohydrates in the soil. And some of it is veggie juice.. way low on sugars.

Im doing a once a week feed thing.. just wanna see where it goes. Following typical feed, water, water feed schedule.


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## dababydroman (Jul 19, 2014)

letting it cook would create more microbes to my understanding, and let the fruit transform into a state where the plants can actually soak up the nutes.. thast why people compost first and don't just throw banana peels and egg shells right on top of thee root base.. it has to be broken down first.. well all in all i guess its kindof an experiment anyways right so.. have fun let us know how it works out..


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## GrowerGoneWild (Jul 19, 2014)

dababydroman said:


> letting it cook would create more microbes to my understanding, and let the fruit transform into a state where the plants can actually soak up the nutes.. thast why people compost first and don't just throw banana peels and egg shells right on top of thee root base.. it has to be broken down first.. well all in all i guess its kindof an experiment anyways right so.. have fun let us know how it works out..


There are no bannana peels in the mix. And I haven't done the egshell/juice slurry yet...

I dont think I have to have microbes convert juice.. should be plenty in there., Its not just microbes your feeding, there is fungi in the soil that is being fed, within 24 hours of application I see some hyphae, on the surface . I guess I could innoculate with myco, should be a good combo, seeing how the fungi took to the juice.

I wont be using bannana peels.. I'm thinking some egshells that are dried and pulverized in a blender, with some leftover juice and a little bit of epsoms.


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## canadiankushman (Jul 22, 2014)

Has anyone any experience with Canadian Thistle? I have been debating adding it to my botanical topdressing regime. I've read reports of grazing livestock on it and supposedly its equal to or greater than alfalfa for nutritional value. Anyone have knowledge on this?

Ck.


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## verbal719 (Jul 31, 2014)

irieie said:


> How much should I piss in my plants. Should I piss directly into the pots or should I pee into a cup and then mix it with water. I am thinking about the second route because I have trouble stopping midstream so measuring word be tough. What


Actually my dad told me that back in the early 70s or late 60s that his dad (my grandpa) used to piss on the soil around my dads weed plants. Not directly on the foliage. He was a serious gardener. Always had huge tomatoes and peppers. The proof is in the piss. I have not tried this by the way.


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## st0wandgrow (Jul 31, 2014)

verbal719 said:


> Actually my dad told me that back in the early 70s or late 60s that his dad (my grandpa) used to piss on the soil around my dads weed plants. Not directly on the foliage. He was a serious gardener. Always had huge tomatoes and peppers. The proof is in the piss. I have not tried this by the way.


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## dr.medecine (Aug 1, 2014)

Some of the suggestions just come out as nasty at best but probably downright nutty imo hehehe, that´s why I like them. 

What I like specifically is the suggestions that are easily available and dirt cheap if not free, waste products like urine and poo for example, have yet to read the entire thread but would be good to actually know how efficient they can be? Used to pee in my plants years ago when drunk on beer and it sure did not hurt them but how efficient was it really, hard to tell under those circumstances I guess need a controlled grow comparing with one using standard nutes and the other "nasty" stuff. Especially today where nutes have become such a mega business and can cost hundreds if not even thousands of $ depending on grow and that´s the part I really dislike, then we have the fanboys of certain companies helping them out by pushing them online but I think some brands have just gone overboard with fillers charging insane amounts of money for it often claiming you better use all for best results but then again that´s just me and what do I know I´m just another noob really or at very least not an expert grower in any way.

What way to better combat that then to use waste products and whatever cheap nasties we can get out hands on?  Gonna read the entire thread soon enough to get some tips, just that growing indoors you a bit more limited though with a grow tent next to your bed like I have.


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## st0wandgrow (Aug 1, 2014)

dr.medecine said:


> Some of the suggestions just come out as nasty at best but probably downright nutty imo hehehe, that´s why I like them.
> 
> What I like specifically is the suggestions that are easily available and dirt cheap if not free, waste products like urine and poo for example, have yet to read the entire thread but would be good to actually know how efficient they can be? Used to pee in my plants years ago when drunk on beer and it sure did not hurt them but how efficient was it really, hard to tell under those circumstances I guess need a controlled grow comparing with one using standard nutes and the other "nasty" stuff. Especially today where nutes have become such a mega business and can cost hundreds if not even thousands of $ depending on grow and that´s the part I really dislike, then we have the fanboys of certain companies helping them out by pushing them online but I think some brands have just gone overboard with fillers charging insane amounts of money for it often claiming you better use all for best results but then again that´s just me and what do I know I´m just another noob really or at very least not an expert grower in any way.
> 
> What way to better combat that then to use waste products and whatever cheap nasties we can get out hands on?  Gonna read the entire thread soon enough to get some tips, just that growing indoors you a bit more limited though with a grow tent next to your bed like I have.



The sad part is that even with store bought nutrients you end up with piss and shit (bio solids) in the mix anyway. May as well use your own for free.


----------



## GrowerGoneWild (Aug 2, 2014)

My update on my own experimental organics. Using old fruit/veggie juice

Its actually a bad idea to use straight fruit juice, It seemed to cause some kind of pythium on one of the clones and it eventually damped off and died. So back to the drawing board. Old fruit juice when applied directly to the soil causes a huge increase in visible hyphae on the soil, almost too much. I think the real problem is the possiblity of an increase in pathogens. 

New approach. I am using a compost tea bag 1inch X 2inch bag, and I simply pour my old juice diluted with 4 parts water, over the compost tea bag that is on the surface of the soil. Looks good so far, no signs of damping off etc..


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## GrowerGoneWild (Aug 2, 2014)

verbal719 said:


> Actually my dad told me that back in the early 70s or late 60s that his dad (my grandpa) used to piss on the soil around my dads weed plants. Not directly on the foliage. He was a serious gardener. Always had huge tomatoes and peppers. The proof is in the piss. I have not tried this by the way.


There are people that grow big peppers and tomatoes without using a drop of piss. Same goes with weed.


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## GrowerGoneWild (Aug 2, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> The sad part is that even with store bought nutrients you end up with piss and shit (bio solids) in the mix anyway. May as well use your own for free.


Agreed, just got to process the waste correctly.. if you're gonna use human waste, use a composting toilet, eventually that could be moved to the garden.


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## verbal719 (Aug 3, 2014)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> There are people that grow big peppers and tomatoes without using a drop of piss. Same goes with weed.


So. There are people that grow big weed plants without nutrients all together. What's your point?


----------



## Abiqua (Aug 13, 2014)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> There are people that grow big peppers and tomatoes without using a drop of piss. Same goes with weed.


Once it's broken down [the piss that is, or whatever you are using] it is just chemistry. The plant is still mainly uptaking no3 and some further broken down no2. 

The nitrogen cycle is still an important part, whether its from plant waste or ass waste.


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## GrowerGoneWild (Aug 25, 2014)

Abiqua said:


> Once it's broken down [the piss that is, or whatever you are using] it is just chemistry. The plant is still mainly uptaking no3 and some further broken down no2.
> 
> The nitrogen cycle is still an important part, whether its from plant waste or ass waste.


The plants my friend grew that he pissed on all the time didn't look any better than the seaweed or kelp based fertilizers that I used. 

Feeding nitrogen is not something I want too much of anyways, especially in flower.


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## GeorgiaOkeefe (Sep 18, 2014)

Throw some dandelion leaves into the compost pile. I've even dried the leaves and ran them through a coffee grinder and added them to the soil like any other amendment. Dandelions are awesome, and lucky for me, they comprise about 50% of my yard! Don't take the flowers or seeds though, just the leaves. Never tried a tea though, for myself or for the plants.


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## GrowerGoneWild (Oct 24, 2014)

Its all about the breakfast foods lately.

1) Eggshells, I've been saving my eggshells and drying them in the microwave, then I pulverize them in the blender. I could blend it with epsoms for a cal-mag treatment. Better than throwing away perfectly good calcium.

2) Coffee Grounds,/old coffee excellent ammendment if you are trying to lower PH. Dont over do it.. the PH of a cup of black coffee is around 4.

Gotta rant about this.. *Dont piss on your plants, ever. This is a horrible idea*, I thought I would experiment with this, and it did not end good. It raised the PH on my soil. And not only is it pathogenic, several sources cite that undiluted urine is toxic to plants.


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## shannonball (Oct 28, 2014)

we use alpaca poop also. works well, doesn't burn and not much smell. also use it in our vegetable garden.


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## werejammmin420 (Nov 17, 2014)

I read somewhere that said letting fruit spoil (go mouldy) then use the juice as fertilizer! True or not ?? Serious answers pls


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## GrowerGoneWild (Nov 17, 2014)

werejammmin420 said:


> I read somewhere that said letting fruit spoil (go mouldy) then use the juice as fertilizer! True or not ?? Serious answers pls


I tried using old fruit juice, undiluted directly on soil. I think I caused damp off or some kind of pythium infection. Im guessing that there is literally too much sugar and it will cause problems.


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## werejammmin420 (Nov 17, 2014)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> I tried using old fruit juice, undiluted directly on soil. I think I caused damp off or some kind of pythium infection. Im guessing that there is literally too much sugar and it will cause problems.


Cheers for the advice!


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 17, 2014)

werejammmin420 said:


> I read somewhere that said letting fruit spoil (go mouldy) then use the juice as fertilizer! True or not ?? Serious answers pls


You could make an FPE out of banana peels or other fruit, but I wouldn't apply that directly to the soil. I would dilute that 20:1 or so before using as a drench


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## werejammmin420 (Nov 17, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> You could make an FPE out of banana peels or other fruit, but I wouldn't apply that directly to the soil. I would dilute that 20:1 or so before using as a drench


FPE ?? Cheers for the reply.


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 17, 2014)

werejammmin420 said:


> FPE ?? Cheers for the reply.


Fermented Plant Extract. 

http://www.frenchgardening.com/tech.html?pid=3164873867231346


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## GrowerGoneWild (Nov 17, 2014)

I wonder if you could dry bannana peels and pulverize them and apply directly in the form of a top dressing.


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## cannakis (Nov 19, 2014)

1337hacker said:


> Aloe vera is great as an antistress agent during transplants


interesting... how would this be applied?


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## cannakis (Nov 19, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Fermented Plant Extract.
> 
> http://www.frenchgardening.com/tech.html?pid=3164873867231346


woop woop! the way its supposed to be! and they say you cant make alcohol from vegetative cellulosic materials, Only sugar starches. its just Not true! its lies!

There is like only ONE article on google talking about fermenting straw and making ethanol from straw, but it Literally costs HUNDREDS of dollars Just to read it! It's all bull shit! 

Our Fore Fathers and Mothers knew way more than us, and they used to make Fermented Plant Extract for medicinal purposes. Actually in Tusser's 500 Points of Good Husbandry which was a Standard book in Most Everybody's home, That And the Geneva Bible NOT the King James bible were the main Two Books Everyone owned, especially in America.

But he talks about June is the time to Distill Herbs. Actually Robert Squibb mentions it in his gardeners calendar. 

Anyways, thanks for mentioning that, I Am definitely going to bemaking fermented plant extracts.!


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## cannakis (Nov 19, 2014)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> I wonder if you could dry bannana peels and pulverize them and apply directly in the form of a top dressing.


 I don't really know what this is in reference to, but nick says in organic feeding 101 that you can make a banana peel tea.


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## cannakis (Nov 19, 2014)

glassblower3000 said:


> alright here it goes (I can't believe i'm posting this) I had a dog that had a litter of pups, she had about three that died..fat bitch layed on them and suffacated them,,oh well anywho I burried them in this hole cause i had grown a plant in the hole years before (soft dirt)...the following spring I planted this cheesewreck ontop of the well composted puppy carcases...fuckin' nasty I know...I would never do this today.


Haha I love it. I mean there is no better way to discard of such life in my opinion. Better to make use of the animals that die, they are Not humans.


----------



## cannakis (Nov 19, 2014)

Kalyx said:


> This is a common practice in many parts of the world/cultures. My buddy pulled a quick switch this spring because his daughters tree didn't make it through the winter. He timed it right and she just thought it got a slow start that spring! Its ok IMO all life comes from death with microbes doing the magic transition! Its just like planting a corn kernel in a fish carcass back in the day.
> 
> Instead of buying your kid a case of wine from the year of their birth, I was thinking the cannabis version would be like grow a dank plant with your childs placenta tea then make hash and save it for when you bust them toking. So this is "your hash"... and I only want you smoking the good stuff kid. Me personally I'd rather have that than a case of aged bordeau any day!
> 
> I still have my daughters (heart shaped, rare!) placenta in the freezer, maybe I will use it to make some tea on some plants like I said above. I did pump the water and afterbirth (home birth was great!) from the puddle birth (we were gonna do a water birth but she came when it was only 5" full!) right into my tomato bed and they are doing great this year even though they got seeded late by a new dad gardener who was about one and a half months behind schedule. MMmmm homegrown tomatoes, one thing I LOVE about late summer.


I Love this.! Amen!


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## cannakis (Nov 19, 2014)

fliesandshit said:


> As some already mentioned, urine is a really great fertilizer. Here in Sweden people use it all the time, dilute it with water (1 part urine, 2-10 parts water depending on if the soil is already wet and how much nutes your plant can handle) and water. It's called "golden water". I read on some swedish gardening forum that every time you pee, you throw away like 3-4 USD worth of top grade fertilizer.
> 
> And if you think it's gross: You don't water on the buds but on the soil. The plants don't absorb the urine, it simply uses all the valuable nutriets. Watering with "golden water" does not mean you will be smoing your own pee.


Man $3-4 is quite a lot of money! I actually may try something like this one day. I mean back in the day they used night soil for manure... Same thing.


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## GrowerGoneWild (Nov 19, 2014)

cannakis said:


> I don't really know what this is in reference to, but nick says in organic feeding 101 that you can make a banana peel tea.


Ive been poking around the inter tubes.. and found you can dry and pulverize them.. I prefer a dry top dressing myself.. I'm sure a tea would work too.


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## cannakis (Nov 19, 2014)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> Ive been poking around the inter tubes.. and found you can dry and pulverize them.. I prefer a dry top dressing myself.. I'm sure a tea would work too.


nice i like that better! how do you dry them? just in the sun, or oven?


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## cannakis (Nov 19, 2014)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> Ive been poking around the inter tubes.. and found you can dry and pulverize them.. I prefer a dry top dressing myself.. I'm sure a tea would work too.


and Congratulations Brother on your State gaining some more of its freedoms back!


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## werejammmin420 (Nov 20, 2014)

Dandilion extract I made!


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## cannakis (Nov 20, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> You could make an FPE out of banana peels or other fruit, but I wouldn't apply that directly to the soil. I would dilute that 20:1 or so before using as a drench


i like this... what about lemon or orange rinds?


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## cannakis (Nov 20, 2014)

werejammmin420 said:


> Dandilion extract I made!


fuck yeah! fermented extract? how did you make it? it looks beautiful! application rate?


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## cannakis (Nov 20, 2014)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> Ive been poking around the inter tubes.. and found you can dry and pulverize them.. I prefer a dry top dressing myself.. I'm sure a tea would work too.


what about drying lemon or orange rinds and pulverising them?


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 20, 2014)

cannakis said:


> i like this... what about lemon or orange rinds?


Never tried it bro. At first blush something to be aware of is that lemon juice *could* raise the ph of your medium..... and I believe you were already having issues with this.


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## cannakis (Nov 20, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Never tried it bro. At first blush something to be aware of is that lemon juice *could* raise the ph of your medium..... and I believe you were already having issues with this.


no it would lower it because of the acidity. i already have a high ph which alkaline. the rinds i dont know aboit though.


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 20, 2014)

cannakis said:


> no it would lower it because of the acidity. i already have a high ph which alkaline. the rinds i dont know aboit though.



http://life.gaiam.com/article/how-increase-alkalinity-your-water

.


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## cannakis (Nov 20, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> http://life.gaiam.com/article/how-increase-alkalinity-your-water
> 
> .


What!!?!?! Are you serious.!?


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## cannakis (Nov 20, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Never tried it bro. At first blush something to be aware of is that lemon juice *could* raise the ph of your medium..... and I believe you were already having issues with this.


So how should I lower ph in teas, apple cider vinegar?!


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 20, 2014)

cannakis said:


> So how should I lower ph in teas, apple cider vinegar?!



A compost tea (if that's what you're referring to) in theory should help buffer the ph itself. Personally I don't mess with ph'ing teas. I've found that the oyster shell flour I amend the soil with (1/2 cup per cf) is all that's needed. Using a good source of compost is important in this regard too


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## cannakis (Nov 20, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> A compost tea (if that's what you're referring to) in theory should help buffer the ph itself. Personally I don't mess with ph'ing teas. I've found that the oyster shell flour I amend the soil with (1/2 cup per cf) is all that's needed. Using a good source of compost is important in this regard too


yeah but oyster shell is alkaline.


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 20, 2014)

cannakis said:


> yeah but oyster shell is alkaline.


Right. Forgot that you're having the opposite problem. 

Have you looked in to adding a sulfur amendment to your soil? Someone mentioned this when we were discussing the use of coco coir in the rols thread. Garden gypsum was recommended iirc.


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## cannakis (Nov 21, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Right. Forgot that you're having the opposite problem.
> 
> Have you looked in to adding a sulfur amendment to your soil? Someone mentioned this when we were discussing the use of coco coir in the rols thread. Garden gypsum was recommended iirc.


the sulfur no i havent... is that still "organic"? is that acidic? gypsum is alkaline i believe.


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 21, 2014)

cannakis said:


> the sulfur no i havent... is that still "organic"? is that acidic? gypsum is alkaline i believe.


http://blueberries.msu.edu/uploads/files/Lowering_Soil_pH_with_Sulfur.pdf

http://www.planetnatural.com/organic-gardening-guru/soil/

"
*Decreasing Soil pH.* To correct alkaline soil, a source of acid is needed. Elemental sulfur is most commonly used by organic gardeners. However, sulfur requires some time before it is converted to sulfuric acid with the aid of soil bacteria. This conversion rate is dependent on the particle size of the sulfur, the amount of soil moisture, soil temperature and the presence of the bacteria. As a result, it can take several months to decrease the pH value. Click on the Sulfur Calculator to determine how much sulfur you will need. Do not attempt to change pH by more than 1 pH unit per year.

Tip: *Yellowstone Brand Elemental Sulfur* or “split pea” sulfur lowers pH in alkaline soils and helps acid-loving plants to achieve optimum growth. Use 1 Tbsp per 4″ of pot diameter or broadcast approximately 10 lbs per 1,000 square feet and work into the soil. Do NOT exceed more than two applications per year. OMRI Listed for use in organic crop production.


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## Nullis (Nov 21, 2014)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> I wonder if you could dry bannana peels and pulverize them and apply directly in the form of a top dressing.


I'm actually experimenting with such tactics currently as a matter of fact, not for top dressing by itself though I'd prefer to top-dress/mulch with something more carbonaceous (aong with some alfalfa hay maybe).


st0wandgrow said:


> Never tried it bro. At first blush something to be aware of is that lemon juice *could* raise the ph of your medium..... and I believe you were already having issues with this.


Citrus rinds are very high in potassium. K is a base cation and tends to form alkaline compounds. If you drink orange, grapefruit, or lemon juice, for example they actually alkalize the body and urine. Citrus fruits contain potassium citrate.

@cannakis, what is the pH of the tea? What ingredients are you using?

Gypsum shouldn't appreciably affect pH.


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## cannakis (Nov 21, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> http://blueberries.msu.edu/uploads/files/Lowering_Soil_pH_with_Sulfur.pdf
> 
> http://www.planetnatural.com/organic-gardening-guru/soil/
> 
> ...


Awesome thanks for all the information.! Looks like i need to buy some sulfur... And MAN only 1pH Unit PER YEAR!!! my Sandy Soil outside is like 9pH.! Thanks for the help.


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## cannakis (Nov 21, 2014)

Nullis said:


> I'm actually experimenting with such tactics currently as a matter of fact, not for top dressing by itself though I'd prefer to top-dress/mulch with something more carbonaceous (aong with some alfalfa hay maybe).
> 
> Citrus rinds are very high in potassium. K is a base cation and tends to form alkaline compounds. If you drink orange, grapefruit, or lemon juice, for example they actually alkalize the body and urine. Citrus fruits contain potassium citrate.
> 
> ...


Ahhh.! That's very interesting.! i Was actually just reading an article about how pH a/effects the Human Body and when you get sick it is because you have a Lower pH than what you should have. Cancer patients have an Incredibly low pH and continues lowering until death.! 

And i was thinking well how does eating Citrus Foods make you More healthy if it is Acidic.!!! But as you have pointed out it Actually Converts to Alkaline Instead of staying Acidic.!

Well it usually gets to 8-9+.... i JUST bought an Electronic pH meter, should be here soon and i can give Specific Measurements. But i used, Humic & Fulvic acid, Blood and Kelp meal, dry molasses, and lemon juice (because i thought it was acidic...) and i think that was it...


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## cannakis (Nov 21, 2014)

hahaha i just changed my signature and said so everyone has a constant reminder of the bill of rights and my gf says "why so everyone can have a constant reminder of what a tool bag you are." hahaha so yeah sorry for being a tool bag...


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## cannakis (Nov 21, 2014)

Nullis said:


> I'm actually experimenting with such tactics currently as a matter of fact, not for top dressing by itself though I'd prefer to top-dress/mulch with something more carbonaceous (aong with some alfalfa hay maybe).
> 
> Citrus rinds are very high in potassium. K is a base cation and tends to form alkaline compounds. If you drink orange, grapefruit, or lemon juice, for example they actually alkalize the body and urine. Citrus fruits contain potassium citrate.
> 
> ...


i guess vinegar is acidic? or am i wrong?


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## Nullis (Nov 22, 2014)

Vinegar/Apple cider vinegar are basically dilute solutions of acetic acid in water. These are indeed acidic and you could use ACV to lower the pH of a tea no harm in that.


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## Nullis (Nov 22, 2014)

Every time I try to post on RIU from my phone, if I hit enter within the post it gets all screwed up.

9 does seem high for an AACT, what is the pH of your water source and how much of those ingredients are you adding? Kelp and HAs actually tend to be alkaline as well. And what are you using to test pH with, drops or litmus paper? If the solution is very dark it can make it difficult to determine the result. Litmus paper might work better than drops in this case.


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## cannakis (Nov 23, 2014)

Nullis said:


> Vinegar/Apple cider vinegar are basically dilute solutions of acetic acid in water. These are indeed acidic and you could use ACV to lower the pH of a tea no harm in that.


awesome thanks so much! just got like twenty pounds of apple scraps, time to make some cider vinegar!!!


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## cannakis (Nov 23, 2014)

Nullis said:


> Every time I try to post on RIU from my phone, if I hit enter within the post it gets all screwed up.
> 
> 9 does seem high for an AACT, what is the pH of your water source and how much of those ingredients are you adding? Kelp and HAs actually tend to be alkaline as well. And what are you using to test pH with, drops or litmus paper? If the solution is very dark it can make it difficult to determine the result. Litmus paper might work better than drops in this case.


i will let you know the ph of water... like Tbls each in 4gls, like half tbls fulvic, and maybe 2 for kelp and dry molasses.

and using Drops right now, but my meter willbe here tomorrow.!!


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## cannakis (Nov 23, 2014)

Nullis said:


> Every time I try to post on RIU from my phone, if I hit enter within the post it gets all screwed up.
> 
> 9 does seem high for an AACT, what is the pH of your water source and how much of those ingredients are you adding? Kelp and HAs actually tend to be alkaline as well. And what are you using to test pH with, drops or litmus paper? If the solution is very dark it can make it difficult to determine the result. Litmus paper might work better than drops in this case.


my pH of the rain water i use is like almost perfect like 6.8 but since using drops ill say 7. like 20ppm while my tap is like 200ppm. i just like said like like ten times.!im fucking stupid


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## cannakis (Nov 23, 2014)

Nullis said:


> Vinegar/Apple cider vinegar are basically dilute solutions of acetic acid in water. These are indeed acidic and you could use ACV to lower the pH of a tea no harm in that.


what about clausen dill pickle juice?!


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## Nullis (Nov 24, 2014)

Never heard of it.


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## cannakis (Nov 24, 2014)

Nullis said:


> I'm actually experimenting with such tactics currently as a matter of fact, not for top dressing by itself though I'd prefer to top-dress/mulch with something more carbonaceous (aong with some alfalfa hay maybe).
> 
> Citrus rinds are very high in potassium. K is a base cation and tends to form alkaline compounds. If you drink orange, grapefruit, or lemon juice, for example they actually alkalize the body and urine. Citrus fruits contain potassium citrate.
> 
> ...


okay so got my tester Thank GOD! pH is 8.4 of my rain water... should i lower this with cider vinager? or only with my teas?


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## Scroga (Nov 24, 2014)

Is your tester calibrated properly? 

Sent from my GT-S7580L using Rollitup mobile app


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## cannakis (Nov 25, 2014)

Nullis said:


> Never heard of it.


haha just pickle juice...?


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## cannakis (Nov 25, 2014)

Scroga said:


> Is your tester calibrated properly?
> 
> Sent from my GT-S7580L using Rollitup mobile app


yes it is... i believe... it didnt have a calibration method besides how you trst it each time it kind of calibrates it... i will look one more time but im pretty sure its right....

oh wait that was for the liquid tester... Yes i Did calibrate it.

i was thinking it was my soil tester... but that one is right too because i tested my first batch of soil and itsaid about10+... this electric tester says the soil is 9.9.

but yes my liquid tester is calibrated.


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## Nullis (Nov 25, 2014)

Very odd that rain water would be so alkaline... unless your roof is like made of limestone or something (I suppose that is possible). Depending on how you are collecting the water, what it flows over before being collected (roofing materials). 

Rain water straight form the sky tends to be slightly acidic, if not due to smog than due to CO2 dissolving in the water (forming carbonic acid).


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## cannakis (Nov 25, 2014)

Nullis said:


> Very odd that rain water would be so alkaline... unless your roof is like made of limestone or something (I suppose that is possible). Depending on how you are collecting the water, what it flows over before being collected (roofing materials).
> 
> Rain water straight form the sky tends to be slightly acidic, if not due to smog than due to CO2 dissolving in the water (forming carbonic acid).


yeah i collect it by putting five gallon buckets under the drip line on my house, no gutters. it does sit out fir a while...


----------



## DonTesla (Nov 29, 2014)

DANKSWAG said:


> WORD TO THOSE LOOKING TO SAVE SOME $$$
> 
> CloneX verses Straight Aloe Vera
> 
> ...


Yo Dank,
Sweet comparison!
When did you put those babies into their cup and when you apply the aloe? I got a clone in aerated RO with 3 short roots she's the first to root, I was gonna dip it in a bit of myco-frass water before putting her in some soil but aloe is all natural, too, you gotta love it.


----------



## DANKSWAG (Nov 30, 2014)

DonTesla said:


> Yo Dank,
> Sweet comparison!
> When did you put those babies into their cup and when you apply the aloe? I got a clone in aerated RO with 3 short roots she's the first to root, I was gonna dip it in a bit of myco-frass water before putting her in some soil but aloe is all natural, too, you gotta love it.


The clones were all processed at same time, I need reference link to post so I can examine and check dates on pics.

Ya never looked backed to using clonex, I've done everything with Aloe expect in my cloner with the mini jets...which I should of looking back but at the time it was to get a natural feel for what the jets would do for rooting the clones.

I just keep growing my Aloe and using the gel and liquid from it works like no other and is all you need to get them off to a good start in a organic worm compost preferably with organic worm compost blend. I add some nice beneficials in microbes and such when transplanting.

DankSwag


****************UPDATE**********************
NO DOME MIST NATURE'S H20
These appear to be 14 days or longer possibly
into rooting... my reason for this my last post 12-18-13
and I'd expect to see this again if I reproduced.
Anyone with some clonex to spare?


----------



## Scroga (Nov 30, 2014)

Do you cover them with a dome of some sort when. Using the Aloe in soil? Great info mate

Sent from my GT-S7580L using Rollitup mobile app


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## Dave's Not Here (Jan 2, 2015)

I have a huge Aloe plant that I've been toting around for almost 10 years now, this thing is getting a trunk like a tree and has numerous pups sprouting off of it, there's hardly even any soil left in the container it has been so abused but it's thriving. I throw it outside in the summer and it goes in a mostly dark basement the rest of the year.

Aloe from what I've read stimulates the plant's immune system and contains numerous micro-nutrients. I've recently been irregularly watering the soil with a teaspoon or so per gallon squeezed out of a piece of leaf and mixed into the water. I haven't seen any magical results but nothing negative either. I haven't tried it on any cuttings.

Here's a great video about how using a kelp foliar spray a week before taking cuttings helps them root faster as well and that kelp in general is great for promoting rooting in clones.






I've used my magical piss on my veggie garden before with fantastic results, I've had some plants that I probably over-fertilized with it growing like some of the videos you see on YouTube of the massive plants. I'm talking 4ft onions and monster tomato plants. I didn't use it on my garden last year and could really notice the difference and haven't found a suitable replacement for it yet. Also the urine seems to help keep the bugs away or make the plants more bug resistant, I had a lot more pest issues last year.

Most of my organic experience is based in outdoor veggie gardening and composting whatever I have on hand which is mainly leaves and grass clippings. What I do is every fall collect all the leaves with my bagging mower, which shreds them up a little and make a large fenced in pile of leaves with some grass and some leftover vegetable matter from the garden. Then I throw a few gallons of urine on the pile, wet it down and throw a tarp over it. (I've also thrown some yeast and sugar water on the pile before too and all sorts of kitchen scraps.) I went out and turned it for the first time on Christmas day and the center of it was smoking it was so hot... it was about 40 degrees outside. Come spring it will be full of earthworms breaking down the leaves and a lot more broken down, which lately I've been using it about halfway broken down in the spring to fill the bottom of new raised beds.

I also brew up some teas in a 5 gallon bucket in the garage once in awhile, mainly with compost from the bottom of the pile and usually a little yeast and sugar water, let it brew for 24 hours and then water the plants with it.

I sometimes use some wood ash and half burnt twigs and sticks from burning branches and brush and work it into the soil.

I get a few containers of coffee grounds here and there and work them into the soil but probably not enough to make a difference. I have numerous large gardens in a large backyard.

This year I mainly plan on incorporating some kelp foliar feeding into my veggie garden, it might be almost as good as urine but I think they would probably be best used together.

I've noticed that outside plants more than anything seem to prefer a nice raised bed over being planted in the ground, even if it's just six inches higher than the ground they love it a lot more. Even if you just mound up the topsoil into a platform that's 6 inches higher than the soil around it they do a lot better.

Does anyone have a cheap source of Azomite? I'd like to start incorporating this also.

My first post, hi everybody!


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## DANKSWAG (Jan 2, 2015)

Scroga said:


> Do you cover them with a dome of some sort when. Using the Aloe in soil? Great info mate
> 
> Sent from my GT-S7580L using Rollitup mobile app



Actually I used red sole cup with clear solo cup lid as dome with slits for air.
But I misted daily with rain water

DankSwag


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## purplegardens (Jan 14, 2015)

I'm going to be using roses, green leafy stuff, leafs and stems from past grow, sea shells, coffee grounds, egg shells, sea weed, Epsom salt, pot ash, molasses, urine, and rain water and also fish tank water


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## DANKSWAG (Jan 18, 2015)

Used plastic clear solo dome, misted daily with rain water. 
Suggest taking all pieces of Aloe left after trimming away skin
to produce clear Aloe gel strips to be used in transplanting and 
place in water with clone cuttings letting them soak in while 
preparing soil container to transplant too. Then take a clone
out and insert bottom of stem lengthwise into the Aloe gel strip.
Seat cutting into soil with a hole created prior place stem with aloe
strip into soil cover, lightly water if soil needs. Mist leaves cover. 

The original post with pics appear to be at 14 days or longer possibly
into rooting... my reference for this was my post prior on 12-18-13
and I'd expect to see this again if I reproduced.


DankSwag


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## INK ARTCERRATED (Jan 29, 2015)

Maybe not as bizarre but I'm switching my soil grow bow to sog and I plan to still use jobes organics which is chicken meal poop bones blood and feathers and it really smells like it But 2 of the plants look flawless on it the others are at least healthy


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## coolupdscene (Feb 3, 2015)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> aloe vera juice????
> 
> apple cider vinegar???
> 
> anybody use these? and how much should you use???


I used to ph down with braggs unfiltered acv... No good kills microbes... Creates root rot... Use citric acid aka dehydrated lemon juice...not lemons tho i also dont like raw sugars gives me root aphids every time, scary shit reset time... Citric acid is very passive on the microbes


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## coolupdscene (Feb 3, 2015)

irieie said:


> How much should I piss in my plants. Should I piss directly into the pots or should I pee into a cup and then mix it with water. I am thinking about the second route because I have trouble stopping midstream so measuring word be tough. What


Fuckin gross yo id never smoke your "weed"


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## coolupdscene (Feb 3, 2015)

medical/420 said:


> blood meal , bone meal both can spead diseases, not to metion Bat guanos and sea bird poo,


... Whybibuse none of that as a standalone


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## coolupdscene (Feb 3, 2015)

coolupdscene said:


> Fuckin gross yo id never smoke your "weed"


Im tryin to make medicine for dying people not a science expirement


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## Kygiacomo (Feb 8, 2015)

i use aloe vera to mix with my neem and protekt to folair my plants..here is where i get mine http://buildasoil.com/collections/frontpage/products/1-ounce-of-200x-aloe-vera-powder..Aloe contains SA(salicytic acid) which is also good for makeing the plant more resistant to disease..it activates the SAR(systemic acquired response)


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## MartaStuart (Feb 13, 2015)

Aloe vera is best


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## grimdro (Feb 16, 2015)

best 2way to make a soil takes a 6ear or more rot timme ,use a [email protected] container that has a lid to block rain no drainhole as that lets out the juices and invites hungry tree roots . fill ut with a basic black dirt add leafs all kitchen scraps egg shells veg trash bones(brwak um first or grind um to make gaint's bread flour also lors of seafood mainly crab crushed up bury any thing u add at least a foot and pack dirt opt fasten it shut wit bungies (airjoles impor5ant or it will explode, to keep out furries add 2 packs oof worms they do the dirty work the key is time . also crab in general makes great fert tho if its nor ur family biz like me id use the scraps. ive used whole spider crab(trash crab) to fert a farm field well at parents house u crush it rot it plug nose wrll lol and sue in topsoil before a rain for out door plants . if you give the stuff time to rot itll be black gold cept dirt not oil,, tho give it a bullion years itll oul up micely time is key. dony
t use this as a base i recomend mix it halff and half witj
h that peat moss,vercumite,perlite mix its at dollar stores


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## grimdro (Feb 16, 2015)

it only takes years to rot bones seafood rots fast and is full of nuts for us ndplnts tho we prefer um nor rotten lol


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## st0wandgrow (Feb 17, 2015)




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## dababydroman (Mar 14, 2015)

healthy soil eats my has eatin a few ribs of mine, chrushed them, from the steak house.. compost soil ate a big pet gar I had that died.. found piece of its jaw one day pretty cool


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## Midwest Weedist (Mar 19, 2015)

I did something interesting lately that has showed some interesting positive results, albeit not with a cannabis plant. 

For starters I have pet snails, just the normal kind you find crawling around in the Midwest. I keep them in a special rubber maid container with air holes and such. I give them a bedding of organic Coco coir and feed them the same scrapes that my worm bin gets. Well I goofed, fed them too much, set a bag on top of the container, and forgot about them for a couple days too long. Anyways, I was left with a very anaerobic goop in the bottom of the container with some remnants of food that was half decomposed and some dead snails (sad day). So when I cleaned it out instead of pitching it I figured I'd take the half gallon or so of snail poop goop and put it in a 1 gallon planter with a 40 day old bell pepper plant as well as mixing in some of my organic super soil mix. It's been about a week so far and the bell pepper plant is thriving. It's super lush, deep green, and it's healthy. Much healthier than the other bells I have in my super soil mix. 
I'll take pictures when I go on lunch break. Just thought I'd drop this idea in here for someone to ponder on. I'm not sure if the results are from the snail poop, composted food, the anaerobic activity or a combination of all of those factors. 
If it works well I may tool around with the idea of mixing in some of this with my super soil recipe that I give my cannabis plants


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## iHearAll (Jun 24, 2015)

Snails make a good addition to an aquaponics system. Fish+snails+turtles with their run off going into flow beds of plants and worms. Cool stuff.


Midwest Weedist said:


> I did something interesting lately that has showed some interesting positive results, albeit not with a cannabis plant.
> 
> For starters I have pet snails, just the normal kind you find crawling around in the Midwest. I keep them in a special rubber maid container with air holes and such. I give them a bedding of organic Coco coir and feed them the same scrapes that my worm bin gets. Well I goofed, fed them too much, set a bag on top of the container, and forgot about them for a couple days too long. Anyways, I was left with a very anaerobic goop in the bottom of the container with some remnants of food that was half decomposed and some dead snails (sad day). So when I cleaned it out instead of pitching it I figured I'd take the half gallon or so of snail poop goop and put it in a 1 gallon planter with a 40 day old bell pepper plant as well as mixing in some of my organic super soil mix. It's been about a week so far and the bell pepper plant is thriving. It's super lush, deep green, and it's healthy. Much healthier than the other bells I have in my super soil mix.
> I'll take pictures when I go on lunch break. Just thought I'd drop this idea in here for someone to ponder on. I'm not sure if the results are from the snail poop, composted food, the anaerobic activity or a combination of all of those factors.
> If it works well I may tool around with the idea of mixing in some of this with my super soil recipe that I give my cannabis plants


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## SoCalMMJpassion (Jun 25, 2015)

medical/420 said:


> my buddy uses his Dog SHIT on his vegible garden. and I piss/urinenate on my vegible garden. I knew a guy that would pick up road kill and thow it in a pile and let it compost and use it on his Weed plants


ok, I've heard of urine, but from what I've heard, dog shit isn't good because of the meat content that dogs eat... How does his garden look? I'm all for crazy ideas as long as they work!


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## strainbank (Jun 27, 2015)

anyone use fish protein emulsion for organic nutrients? if so what company do you recommend?


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## iHearAll (Jun 28, 2015)

strainbank said:


> anyone use fish protein emulsion for organic nutrients? if so what company do you recommend?


Kroger ! Haha eat fish for once a week and save the skins and bones and heads etc. Then when you have a lb of fish wastes, mix in 1lb molasses and 30ml effective microorgams extended. (Lactobacillus and phototropic bacteria of sorts) this will help it break down without purifying but it will stink! Cover it for 2 weeks and burp it every other day. I think I'll make some. I've run out.... Strain it, discard the fish into your compost or worms, dilute the liquid 1:100 nomchlorinated water. All in all costs are affordable and is interactive in making. You can use whole fish but wastes are recommended for costs. Also I'd bet if you used probiotic tabblets or culture and me lactobacillus from milk you could use either in place of the effective microbes.


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## iHearAll (Jun 28, 2015)

OK so a post ago was the direction for a fish amino acid extraction. I just threw this together a second ago with fish skins, molasses, EMe, water, and a yogurt container sealed with Al foil placed under my shed in the shade for the next 10-14 days. I'll use it as a foliar spray 1nce a week later.


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## iHearAll (Jun 28, 2015)

SoCalMMJpassion said:


> ok, I've heard of urine, but from what I've heard, dog shit isn't good because of the meat content that dogs eat... How does his garden look? I'm all for crazy ideas as long as they work!


Dog poo apparently spreads pathogens! Careful


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## strainbank (Jun 28, 2015)

iHearAll said:


> Dog poo apparently spreads pathogens! Careful


dont forget to bake your dog poo to kill the pathogens, might smell bad though haha.


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## iHearAll (Jun 28, 2015)

strainbank said:


> dont forget to bake your dog poo to kill the pathogens, might smell bad though haha.


Uhhh nooooo!


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## strainbank (Jun 28, 2015)

ever try fish protein nutrients? smells funky but works great.


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## iHearAll (Jun 29, 2015)

Yea, amino acids. I juuuuuust posted an instruction how to make your own. But yea your right, gnarly jank.


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## strainbank (Jun 30, 2015)

iHearAll said:


> Yea, amino acids. I juuuuuust posted an instruction how to make your own. But yea your right, gnarly jank.


you got a link my friend?


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## iHearAll (Jun 30, 2015)

Last page on here https://www.rollitup.org/t/from-scratch-only-no-premixed-bottles-of-stuff.873531/page-2#post-11712344


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## VTMi'kmaq (Jun 30, 2015)

glassblower3000 said:


> alright here it goes (I can't believe i'm posting this) I had a dog that had a litter of pups, she had about three that died..fat bitch layed on them and suffacated them,,oh well anywho I burried them in this hole cause i had grown a plant in the hole years before (soft dirt)...the following spring I planted this cheesewreck ontop of the well composted puppy carcases...fuckin' nasty I know...I would never do this today.


Why wouldnt you? My elders have grown TOP NOTCH GARDENS using previous years deer/moose, fish etc into our gardens, In fact One super kewl thing about being partly native american is i can blend into the white man's scene and still go back to my elders and learn the BEST way to go about things, just an opinion. Using carcasses is imho one surefire way to keep your soil THRIVING. Ever wonder why the soils in alaska 50 miles inland have such wonderful n-p-k values??? the salmon that the bears carry EVERYWHERE have been feeding those forests for thousands of years, herring is another great fertilizer. Here's my "unconventional organic offering"......


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## iHearAll (Jul 2, 2015)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> Why wouldnt you? My elders have grown TOP NOTCH GARDENS using previous years deer/moose, fish etc into our gardens, In fact One super kewl thing about being partly native american is i can blend into the white man's scene and still go back to my elders and learn the BEST way to go about things, just an opinion. Using carcasses is imho one surefire way to keep your soil THRIVING. Ever wonder why the soils in alaska 50 miles inland have such wonderful n-p-k values??? the salmon that the bears carry EVERYWHERE have been feeding those forests for thousands of years, herring is another great fertilizer. Here's my "unconventional organic offering"......View attachment 3451053View attachment 3451054


This is ridiculous! And practical as hell


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## pope creek (Jul 5, 2015)

Last season we had hit a lean spell and had no money for garden supplies. Still managed a successful grow by feeding the girls nothing but urine diluted 1/20 and Owl Pellets both as side dressing and in tea.
Certainly the pee worked great but can't be sure the owl pellets did anything much. I just thought about the fur and bone and digestive enzymes and figured, why not?
Plants grew very well and showed no signs of malnutrition even the soil here is thin, dusty and dead.

Anyone else experimented with these ingredients?


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## iHearAll (Jul 6, 2015)

Ha pelletized owl!? I think you have the right idea.maybe need to cook the pellets or mix them in the soil ahead of time to get worms and bacteria/fungi to dismantle the owl further.


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## VTMi'kmaq (Jul 9, 2015)

iHearAll said:


> OK so a post ago was the direction for a fish amino acid extraction. I just threw this together a second ago with fish skins, molasses, EMe, water, and a yogurt container sealed with Al foil placed under my shed in the shade for the next 10-14 days. I'll use it as a foliar spray 1nce a week later.


That's fucken awesome, i imagine it smells like a cathouse outside a marine base tho lmao!


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## iHearAll (Jul 9, 2015)

grimdro said:


> it only takes years to rot bones seafood rots fast and is full of nuts for us ndplnts tho we prefer um nor rotten lol


Hey I know your post is a bit old but anyway. Broil or just char your bones and then mix them 1:1 by weight with your cheepest vinegar and let it sit for a week or two. It will produce carbon dioxide and phosphorus carbonate. You can then dilute it 1:100 with water. Use it as a foliar spray or a phosphorus supplement. And as a writer's note, do the charring or broiling outside and the process is rather quick over an open fire and a bit slow in a small Black and Decker oven on broil.


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## iHearAll (Jul 9, 2015)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> That's fucken awesome, i imagine it smells like a cathouse outside a marine base tho lmao!


Conveniently it does not smell around the container. I'll filter it in a few days. And that part will be another story. And every time i use it for that matter.


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## Cracken (Aug 8, 2015)

Each year I use sealable barrels, about 3 months before the frost clears I mix my mixture and seal it in the barrels. A nose plug is required when opened but it seems to do great for a full season with only rain water. Does anyone else employ this sort of method?


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## iHearAll (Aug 8, 2015)

Cracken said:


> Each year I use sealable barrels, about 3 months before the frost clears I mix my mixture and seal it in the barrels. A nose plug is required when opened but it seems to do great for a full season with only rain water. Does anyone else employ this sort of method?


I'm experimenting with this sorta thing ATM. I mixed some beneficial microbes in and out the ferts. It's got white molds growing!


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## natureslove (Aug 11, 2015)

irieie said:


> How much should I piss in my plants. Should I piss directly into the pots or should I pee into a cup and then mix it with water. I am thinking about the second route because I have trouble stopping midstream so measuring word be tough. What


I pee in 1 gallon jug and fill with water works amazingly


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## iHearAll (Aug 12, 2015)

1:100 ? I think I saw that as a safe ratio on yahoo question/answers


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## iHearAll (Aug 12, 2015)

Tablespoon per qrt (to start)


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Oct 12, 2015)

I like to make my own fertilizer via fermentation. Fruit, veggies, cannabis leaves and stems, fish, lake weeds, bat shit, comfrey, dandelions, bananas, papaya, pumpkins, ect..
Best part is... it's 100% recycled organic and veganic, it's almost free, it completely water soluble and bio avaiable, non-burning.


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## GrowerGoneWild (Oct 12, 2015)

^^ If you add fish, then its no longer vegan.. And I dont know about ferments, I more or less thought aerobic process was more efficient than a ferment.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Oct 12, 2015)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> ^^ If you add fish, then its no longer vegan.. And I dont know about ferments, I more or less thought aerobic process was more efficient than a ferment.


That is correct, fish and bat shit will be in the organic side. Veganic is strictly plant matter and natural earth elements.

The aerobic microorganisms are my choice in the AACT brewer, however they must have air to do their job and without it they will die, remain in spore/cyst form. They consume alot of organic matter and render it available however that service of theirs comes at a price, they actually lower the "would have been" total nutrient value. 

With fermentation you rely on lactic bacteria, phototropic bacteria and yeasts. The prefered pH is 3-4 and at that end of the scale the enviroment is to harsh for any pathogenic anerob. Fermenting actually preserves more of the original nutrient values. This is the same principle as bokashi composting. The lechate that is found at the bottom of any bokashi composter is used at 1 tsp/gallon. Same as my fermented fertilizer.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Oct 12, 2015)

Strangely enough this post is named "unconventional organics". 
For those of you who wish to learn more about fermentation I encourage you to visit 
WWW UNCONVENTIONALFARMER.COM


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## GrowerGoneWild (Oct 12, 2015)

Interesting, I guess I could see the ferments being a digested material for mineralizing bacteria in the regular soil PH range for cannabis. I would expect the lactic bacteria to be overtaken in a soil culture. In a way "pickling" (fermenting)seems not to break down matter like aerobic activity.. And the smell. I've tried some non aerated compost teas.. I dont think I'll be trying that again. But dont mind me.. just thinking out loud. 

I'm more or less trying to see if your technique makes sense. 

Well you're method is unconventional.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Oct 12, 2015)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> Interesting, I guess I could see the ferments being a digested material for mineralizing bacteria in the regular soil PH range for cannabis. I would expect the lactic bacteria to be overtaken in a soil culture. In a way "pickling" (fermenting)seems not to break down matter like aerobic activity.. And the smell. I've tried some non aerated compost teas.. I dont think I'll be trying that again. But dont mind me.. just thinking out loud.
> 
> I'm more or less trying to see if your technique makes sense.
> 
> Well you're method is unconventional.


Aerobic soil microbes absolutely love fermented material. It basically pre-chewed for them. The liquid extracts are avaiable to the plant but still encourage microbes to flourish. 
Have you heard of Earth Juice catalyst? It's a ferment. Goes about $23 bucks per liter bottle. Why pay for fertilizer when u can make it.

Non aerated tea is poison and smells like death. I tried it once also and I never will again, but that's how I came across fermenting with lacto bacillus and yeasts. Lacto bacillus is a flaculative anerobe, it's very benificial to plants as is the yeast and phototropic bacteria. Organic amendments or suppliments don't encourage high counts of these microbes because they don't proliferate in an aerobic enviroment or the pH range of good soil. 

But once added to the soil they now add to the high diversity that is the "microbial loop".


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## GrowerGoneWild (Oct 13, 2015)

Grandpa GreenJeans said:


> Aerobic soil microbes absolutely love fermented material. It basically pre-chewed for them. The liquid extracts are avaiable to the plant but still encourage microbes to flourish.
> Have you heard of Earth Juice catalyst? It's a ferment. Goes about $23 bucks per liter bottle. Why pay for fertilizer when u can make it.
> 
> Non aerated tea is poison and smells like death. I tried it once also and I never will again, but that's how I came across fermenting with lacto bacillus and yeasts. Lacto bacillus is a flaculative anerobe, it's very benificial to plants as is the yeast and phototropic bacteria. Organic amendments or suppliments don't encourage high counts of these microbes because they don't proliferate in an aerobic enviroment or the pH range of good soil.
> ...


Yeah, reference please or evidence on ferments being nitrifying bacteria friendly. It would seem protien or carbohydrates varying from simple glucose to polyscacchrides seems to enhance microbe growth. And with a fast growing annual I only want certian cultures in my mix.

No comment on earth juice, MSDS lists "sea kelp, sugarcane molasses, oatbran, yeast" as primary ingredients. 

I could see yeast being a potential food source itself for nitrifying bacteria as a food source like "bakers yeast" however it seems to be an odd way of approching it. Dead yeast is a food source for live yeast, so I assume microbes could use it.

I just thought it seems odd to use lacto or yeast to bump up microbe activity because they seem to supress microbe activity as in the case of fermented alcohol or pickling process .. I could see yeast also "limiting" excess simple carbohydrates but not to big a fan of the idea of it competing with mineralizing bacteria especially with exudates in the rhizosphere.

If anything I'm referencing Jeff Lowenfells and Dr Inghams work on microbes.. the majority of the AG products I've seen seem to focus more on aerobic bacteria that mineralize vs anerobes... 

If it works for you.. cool.. I'm just trying to think out loud how this ferment style composting can be used.


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## Labs Dexter (Oct 13, 2015)

Soo I just come into this and I'm sorry for being a noob, 
How does do the yeast and what's about aero thing. How do you do it?!! Pm please incase I piss people off here with my dumb questions. I just flushed my used soil with cal mang and re used it. What fo you guys add to enrich it. I'm in England so please be as clear as you can if possible please, it sounds interesting I read somewhere about someones grany used gone off milk to inrich her soil for next season<- don't know if that's even a word lol.. It's just would like yo hace knowledge in this type of vocabulary please any help would be appreciated..
Thanks in advance


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## VTMi'kmaq (Oct 13, 2015)

Grandpa GreenJeans said:


> Aerobic soil microbes absolutely love fermented material. It basically pre-chewed for them. The liquid extracts are avaiable to the plant but still encourage microbes to flourish.
> Have you heard of Earth Juice catalyst? It's a ferment. Goes about $23 bucks per liter bottle. Why pay for fertilizer when u can make it.
> 
> Non aerated tea is poison and smells like death. I tried it once also and I never will again, but that's how I came across fermenting with lacto bacillus and yeasts. Lacto bacillus is a flaculative anerobe, it's very benificial to plants as is the yeast and phototropic bacteria. Organic amendments or suppliments don't encourage high counts of these microbes because they don't proliferate in an aerobic enviroment or the pH range of good soil.
> ...


i wonder if plants could handle diluted kombucha?


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## iHearAll (Oct 13, 2015)

Ha i made 60gallons of bokashi for 50 cents. just gotta wait two weeks to start using it. Obvious bokashi substrates are coffee, bran or grain, manuer, sawdust, leaf mould, copra meal, beer brewing waste (my favorite), etc. Used spent coffee.


Kombucha.
Dilute it 1:100 (tsp in a liter)
it shouldnt be much different than a homemade fermented liquid. That's the ratio I usually use for most ferments. Its genetics that'll determine if it gets burned. Oh yea, add equal parts molasses to make sure your kombucha microbes have some food haha.

Grandpa Jean check my fermented kitchen garbage grow out. Its 7 autos and a photo in 15 gallons of FKG (solids in bokashi). I spray them with fermented fruit extracts, bone extracts, EMe, and em5 (bio pest repellent )


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## VTMi'kmaq (Oct 13, 2015)

wow man thankyou! I am having a hard time retaining all the information ive gleaned over the last 15 years from all sorts of sources. Really is nice to be able to visit this thread and just read it for SOME SUPERIOR inspiration. Thinking about using these methods on my future classic genetics grows for the next few years and journal a few here. Just started using the mh 400 plantmaxx bulb and gentleman i must say i'm fully aroused lol in a non sexual way that's still good! I'd also like to state that i learned REAL QUICK LIKE that a 600 hps and a 400 mh in my 3 x 3 x 7 tent wont be feaseable until i upgrade to a 6 inch whisper inline to make it easier to disipate the heat, almost killed my whole tent with bleaching and WAYYY too close lights. I musta been mantra'd in my head tanning salon lol!


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## iHearAll (Oct 13, 2015)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> Yeah, reference please or evidence on ferments being nitrifying bacteria friendly. It would seem protien or carbohydrates varying from simple glucose to polyscacchrides seems to enhance microbe growth. And with a fast growing annual I only want certian cultures in my mix.
> 
> No comment on earth juice, MSDS lists "sea kelp, sugarcane molasses, oatbran, yeast" as primary ingredients.
> 
> ...


The brewing process is to isolate a bacteria culture for its desirable wastes. Alcohol. If you've brewed, you remember the yeast cake? This is a huge mass of bacteria cultured from a little gram packet of yeast. Lactobaccilus does it with yogurt. Em-1 probiotics doesn't need to be grown on a sterile substrate and will still take over if its air tight. Its not inhibiting any growth except pathogenic growth. The fermentation of solids turns out to actually preserve the integrity of material and not cause a rotting sludge to be created. The sprays help prevent illness in you and the plant while giving the plant some foliar food as well. Same goes for soil drench.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Oct 13, 2015)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> Yeah, reference please or evidence on ferments being nitrifying bacteria friendly. It would seem protien or carbohydrates varying from simple glucose to polyscacchrides seems to enhance microbe growth. And with a fast growing annual I only want certian cultures in my mix.
> 
> No comment on earth juice, MSDS lists "sea kelp, sugarcane molasses, oatbran, yeast" as primary ingredients.
> 
> ...


well im no scientist but my knowlege of yeast, like brewers yeast you can uy commercialy is marketed as a protien, and protien is consumed for its Nitrogen. Any bacteria would love to chomp on some yeast. To my knowledge bacteria dont have 1 prefered food source. You reference nitrifying bacteria but that is only a couple of them and they are nitrogen fixating, meaning they take the nitrogen from the air or atmosphere and render it to the plant, who couldnt accomplish this on it own.

As far as lactio bacillus is concerned im not sure where the hang up is. They dominate in their perfered pH range of 3-4. Thats a far cry from a plants prefered or at least any plant i have ever grown. I think research is required by parties who wish to dive into this, as im sure the actual web sites can say it better than i can. But to give you and idea Ill say i have 1 5gal bucket of pure water. It reads 5.4pH. Thats not ideal for cannabis or most plants in soil. Hydro s another story. The amount of lactic bacteria or even a DIY fermented fertilizer is very minimal. 1 tsp/gallon. Thats going to drop your pH even more now since lactic bacteria and yeast and purple sulfer bacteria are a HIGH ACIDITY favoring. But why on earth would you ever hand water a plant with a pH lower than 6.5? , so you must re adjust the pH. So add the pH up and stabalize it.
Once added to a new enviroment where aerobes are proliferating the FLACULATIVE ANEROBES can still be of benifit but they dont have a front row serat to the show like the aerobic microbes. Lactic bacteria are exellent composters FACT. http://www.infrc.or.jp/english/KNF_Data_Base_Web/PDF KNF Conf Data/C1-5-018.pdf 

Next is the phototropic bacteria FACT. http://www.biologyexams4u.com/2013/03/difference-between-plant-photosynthesis.html 

Now yeast http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02139640#
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v132/n3332/abs/132408b0.html


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## iHearAll (Oct 13, 2015)

Labs Dexter said:


> Soo I just come into this and I'm sorry for being a noob,
> How does do the yeast and what's about aero thing. How do you do it?!! Pm please incase I piss people off here with my dumb questions. I just flushed my used soil with cal mang and re used it. What fo you guys add to enrich it. I'm in England so please be as clear as you can if possible please, it sounds interesting I read somewhere about someones grany used gone off milk to inrich her soil for next season<- don't know if that's even a word lol.. It's just would like yo hace knowledge in this type of vocabulary please any help would be appreciated..
> Thanks in advance


Iv got lots of recipes on this thread. Yeast is actually just one of many ingredients in a probiotic solution. Em-1 from Teraganix is a great place to start once you have the knowledge of what to do with your new "livestock". That's a microbe as livestock joke. I'm sorry dry humored. Ask as many questions as.you can.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/from-scratch-only-no-premixed-bottles-of-stuff.873531/page-5#post-11934168


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## iHearAll (Oct 13, 2015)

Yeast has a symbiotic relationship to lactobaccilus and the phototrophs. For culturing purposes. I don't think they eat the yeast per say but thrive in an environment with one another.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Oct 13, 2015)

iHearAll said:


> Yeast has a symbiotic relationship to lactobaccilus and the photographs. For culturing purposes. I don't think they eat the yeast per say but thrive in an environment with one another.


correct. I can always tell when a ferment is done because of the yeast on the surface, smells sweet too.


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## GrowerGoneWild (Oct 13, 2015)

Sometimes I get a little too focused on one form of microlife.

The point generally is to create nutrition for our fast growing annual, with balanced microlife. 

Some of the concepts Im getting from this conversation are:

Lactobacillus isn't a mineralizing bacteria but one that gives off specific compounds like lactic acid. So these ferments would be acidic, and would supress mineralizing bacteria, unless used in a very dilute form. Dilution ratio of EM range was anywhere from 1:500-2000. (TeraGanix application also goes from 1:7000 to 1:10000) And yes I understand that lacto can change from anerobic to aerobic. 

Now looking at table 1 EM4 optimum application rates seem to vary according to how much crabgrass was incorporated into the soil, or woodchips. Now what bothers me about that particular experiment is the use of synthetic feed. 

So some of these ferments could be used to correct a high ph given their low PH. The eventual byproduct of bacteria working soil and creating NH4 would be alkaline. Or help correct a hot soil, or one with high PH by modifying dilution ratio.

We keep talking about breaking down material, I would have thought worms in the soil or vermi compost would be a better alternative to fermenting.. I"m sure lacto plays a role in decomp, but it would seem to me that worms would be doing a better job if that. I totally could see starting a pile with worms and an inoculant of EM4 or a homebrew to get things started. 

I'll have to revisit this thread in a few days.. Im hoping to attend a vermicomposting workshop, and I'll ask an expert on the significance of ferments like lacto/yeast in the garden, how it can be used with fast growing annuals.


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## iHearAll (Oct 13, 2015)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> Sometimes I get a little too focused on one form of microlife.
> 
> The point generally is to create nutrition for our fast growing annual, with balanced microlife.
> 
> ...


The worms are indeed in uses. They're in the ground. The first step is to ferment, the second isnto bury for two weeks if we're talking about fermenting compost still. Once the compost is in the ground the fun happens. After two weeks of the earth decomposing the fermented stuff the compost will be black and smell like kimchi. Probably some black soldier.fly larvae and worms will be present. There's no need to turn the soil when you plant if your plant is either a tree or a quart size plant.
Here's just a scratch of the surface before I planted. The areas pretty sand. I used the local soil to cover up 15 gallons of FKG. There's obviously alot more of the nice black soil under the sand.
 
Here it is this morning.
Bunch of autos budding


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## Oregon Gardener (Nov 19, 2015)

The worms crawl in and the worms crawl out.


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## Oregon Gardener (Nov 20, 2015)

I learned this off of a gardening show. These are willow branches. They are a natural root hormone. It works. I use that method in my water cloner. ( when they are available)


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## THE KONASSURE (Nov 20, 2015)

Oregon Gardener said:


> I learned this off of a gardening show. These are willow branches. They are a natural root hormone. It works. I use that method in my water cloner. ( when they are available)


and if you have no willow to hand you can always mash up some aspirin as that`s the main thing in "willow water" that causes roots to grow I imagine there are some B-vits and plant sugars too


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## Oregon Gardener (Nov 20, 2015)

I love the aspirin thing. I think the TV gardener mentioned that as well. However, I wonder if compounded aspirin would f- up the organic thing?


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## Labs Dexter (Nov 20, 2015)

Oregon Gardener said:


> I learned this off of a gardening show. These are willow branches. They are a natural root hormone. It works. I use that method in my water cloner. ( when they are available)


We need more people like you with old school methods that do the job.
Well done and thanks for that information


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## Labs Dexter (Nov 20, 2015)

Or raw honey in soil tho for a grow ...
I use that as a booster all through flowering but, you can use for cloning and to heal wounds.
It's more natural and mj plants that I have grown so far works a treat.
Calcium is soil add crushed egg shells lol.


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## Oregon Gardener (Nov 21, 2015)

Labs Dexter said:


> We need more people like you with old school methods that do the job.
> Well done and thanks for that information


It is a privilege to be of service.


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## Oregon Gardener (Nov 21, 2015)

These green worms terrorized us a few years ago. I tested every thing I had on them. Nothing that would work is anything I would want on my property.They mocked me. The microwave worked; so I wound up hiring a guy to pick them off by hand because he had a knack for finding them. However, We use sunflowers for privacy and one day I took this picture. I stopped smashing wasp's nests. I have become "one" with the wasp.


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## iHearAll (Nov 28, 2015)

Is that the white moth's caterpillar?


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## Oregon Gardener (Nov 28, 2015)

iHearAll said:


> Is that the white moth's caterpillar?


I'm not sure. We never let one mature. I call them web worms. I live in the southern region of Oregon. They spin almost spider web like infestations in the trees. The only show up every couple of years and they are a pain in the buttock! I will do some research ( ask my son) and get back with you.


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## iHearAll (Dec 1, 2015)

Oregon Gardener said:


> I'm not sure. We never let one mature. I call them web worms. I live in the southern region of Oregon. They spin almost spider web like infestations in the trees. The only show up every couple of years and they are a pain in the buttock! I will do some research ( ask my son) and get back with you.


Yep thats the bitch there. Glad to hear wasps eat them. They tend to each my cabbages and kales.


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 5, 2015)

Oregon Gardener said:


> I learned this off of a gardening show. These are willow branches. They are a natural root hormone. It works. I use that method in my water cloner. ( when they are available)


Aloe works too


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## stoned_chess (Jan 3, 2016)

I always ash joints and bowls of weed and cigarettes in my soil, and joke that I'll never run out, lol. Also I usually have alcohol brewing in my grow room to add airborne co2. While urinating on one's plants would be a great organic way to add nutrients to the soil, it seems like it would make the PH levels a tad on the acidic side, depending on blood sugar levels etc.


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## equatorial Farmer (Jan 18, 2016)

My main soil fertilizer is warthog and giraffe shit. Mixed in with red soil. I use Neem oil for getting rid of bugs in the soil and have used apple cider vinegar diluted when dealing with a little mold at seedling stage, due to too much watering.


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## WhatDoYouWantFromLife (Jan 18, 2016)

equatorial Farmer said:


> My main soil fertilizer is warthog and giraffe shit. Mixed in with red soil. I use Neem oil for getting rid of bugs in the soil and have used apple cider vinegar diluted when dealing with a little mold at seedling stage, due to too much watering.


My main soil fertilizer is warthog and giraffe shit. OMG I freaking love that.


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## equatorial Farmer (Jan 18, 2016)

WhatDoYouWantFromLife said:


> My main soil fertilizer is warthog and giraffe shit. OMG I freaking love that.


the joys of living in Africa. i avoid the carnivore manure more likely to get toxins


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## GrowerGoneWild (Feb 2, 2016)

Ive been adding candy to my compost tea brewer, (It just kinda collects around my house during the holidays) along with the other stuff. Finally got my microscope to verify at 2000X what is going on and the microbe activity is absolutely there. My inoculants were "Recharge" from real growers, andsome White Shark myco liquid, also verified the presence of amobea.

I'll take it a step further and use soil from the forest, and get a few dirt samples from the pnw to add some diversity to my teas. Results to be verified with a microscope.

I've been testing it on transplants, A little bit of the undiluted tea and some granular myco poured into the transplant hole, very encouraging results.
Even when combining synthetic/organic feed together very low maintence on plants i'm just growing for pollen.


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## Midwest Weedist (Feb 12, 2016)

I'm curious if anyone can see an issue with this, mixing lab serum with fulvic/humic acids before watering? I like to use fulvic and humic acids as well as lacto b., especially in my smaller planters. But I was curious if there could be any negative reactions between the lacto organisms and the ful/hum acids.


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## DonBrennon (Feb 12, 2016)

Midwest Weedist said:


> I'm curious if anyone can see an issue with this, mixing lab serum with fulvic/humic acids before watering? I like to use fulvic and humic acids as well as lacto b., especially in my smaller planters. But I was curious if there could be any negative reactions between the lacto organisms and the ful/hum acids.


I use lacto and fulvic together, I can't see a problem with it, they are lactic acid bacteria after all, I'm sure they can withstand acidic environments.


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## DonTesla (Feb 21, 2016)

Midwest Weedist said:


> I'm curious if anyone can see an issue with this, mixing lab serum with fulvic/humic acids before watering? I like to use fulvic and humic acids as well as lacto b., especially in my smaller planters. But I was curious if there could be any negative reactions between the lacto organisms and the ful/hum acids.


What ppm do you guys run your fulhum at?
And what size do you consider small containers..

Thanks
Just curious
DT


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## Midwest Weedist (Feb 22, 2016)

DonTesla said:


> What ppm do you guys run your fulhum at?
> And what size do you consider small containers..
> 
> Thanks
> ...


No idea on the ppm, I eyeball it at roughly half a teaspoon per gallon for mature plants or those that I've fed hum/ful acids to already in increasing amounts. I've used a full teaspoon per half gallon on plants that were bloomed in to small of a container for their veg (five gallon 3 month veg) and had no noticeable negative effects. Though healthy plants / very rich souls will yield odd mutations of fed too much too often ime.
A small planter for me is under 10, with 10g being on the brim of too small. I can pull a lot of weight from a ten gallon with a three month veg and still have a soil that's still able to support the needs of my plant with no premature yellow / leaf drop. But I feed a lot of aloe, coco water, and humic acids and topdress a lot of Grokashi so my experience could possibly be not the typical one.


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## DonTesla (Feb 22, 2016)

Midwest Weedist said:


> No idea on the ppm, I eyeball it at roughly half a teaspoon per gallon for mature plants or those that I've fed hum/ful acids to already in increasing amounts. I've used a full teaspoon per half gallon on plants that were bloomed in to small of a container for their veg (five gallon 3 month veg) and had no noticeable negative effects. Though healthy plants / very rich souls will yield odd mutations of fed too much too often ime.
> A small planter for me is under 10, with 10g being on the brim of too small. I can pull a lot of weight from a ten gallon with a three month veg and still have a soil that's still able to support the needs of my plant with no premature yellow / leaf drop. But I feed a lot of aloe, coco water, and humic acids and topdress a lot of Grokashi so my experience could possibly be not the typical one.


3 month veg in a 5 gal, wow! 
That's like the BlackForrest we ran.
Do you prefer to veg that long?
Instead of more cycles?

And no worries I've jus been wondering about it
I'm not rocking my 450L no till beds quite yet and just wanted to baby these 7 gallon beauties that I went ahead with

Also what's your coco and aloe game like..

Is salicylic acid in live aloe good or bad, I wonder.. and is 200x aloe better despite the live plant being more "natural"

Appreciate your inputs, man


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## 420monster (Feb 22, 2016)

Is mt.dew organic? It's most definitely unconventional I know the propane torch is tho

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Rollitup mobile app


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## CrocodileStunter (Feb 23, 2016)

So a couple days ago i topped my veg room and then made a tea out of the leaves and stems. let it sit for 3 days and would give it a good shake everyday. opened it up and it smelled sooo damn bad like i swear i could taste the rottenness. but anyway i was like fuck it and fed it to the plants. yesterday when i checked them they were all perked up and the leaves were pointing up to the light. So i call it a success. cannibalize them mofos haha. but that smell though fish emulsion smells great in comparison. i swear i can still taste that smell hahaha so gross............ i did it because i always top to late and didn't want the fertilizer to go to waste plus i figured it would be soluable since it was already broke down into a useful form. who knows I aint a plant scientist.


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## Midwest Weedist (Feb 23, 2016)

DonTesla said:


> 3 month veg in a 5 gal, wow!
> That's like the BlackForrest we ran.
> Do you prefer to veg that long?
> Instead of more cycles?
> ...


Depends on a few variables, mostly my schedule outside the garden. If it was ideal I would be in much larger planters with that long of a veg time. Makes it easier to handle strains that are hungry or finicky about root space. Honestly there's always a slight bit of early yellowing in my five gallons with that long of a veg but I've only seen it affect yield if I'm negligible about watering, dry periods will straight wreck a blooming plant in that small of a planter.

When it comes to aloe I prefer it live just because there are compounds that immediately start to degrade. There may be a beneficial reason to using the dried version in some applications, but I'm not aware of any. I usually keep my aloe and coco ratios at 1:1, in regards to how much of each per gallon.. Depends on how tired I am, how much coconut water I have, and how big my plants are lol. Usually I'll drain two young coconuts which yield anywhere from a half cup to two cups depending on age, blend it up with roughly equal amounts of aloe, then depending on how much I have I'll dilute it at anywhere from a quarter cup of 1:1 coco/aloe per gallon of water all the way up to 1:1 ratio of water: aloe/coco. But that heavy of a feeding is more so wasteful than anything. I only do it that heavy when I have a small amount of soil mass to water and the houseplants aren't thirsty. Nothing has ever shown stress from how heavy I use either, never. Not even when I watered my seedlings with pure aloe/coco and humic acid.


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## Midwest Weedist (Feb 23, 2016)

CrocodileStunter said:


> So a couple days ago i topped my veg room and then made a tea out of the leaves and stems. let it sit for 3 days and would give it a good shake everyday. opened it up and it smelled sooo damn bad like i swear i could taste the rottenness. but anyway i was like fuck it and fed it to the plants. yesterday when i checked them they were all perked up and the leaves were pointing up to the light. So i call it a success. cannibalize them mofos haha. but that smell though fish emulsion smells great in comparison. i swear i can still taste that smell hahaha so gross............ i did it because i always top to late and didn't want the fertilizer to go to waste plus i figured it would be soluable since it was already broke down into a useful form. who knows I aint a plant scientist.


Congratulations, you've crudely isolated some of the growth hormones in those new growth shoots! You'll find similar results by topdressing with malted barley or a seed sprout tea


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## DonTesla (Feb 23, 2016)

Midwest Weedist said:


> Depends on a few variables, mostly my schedule outside the garden. If it was ideal I would be in much larger planters with that long of a veg time. Makes it easier to handle strains that are hungry or finicky about root space. Honestly there's always a slight bit of early yellowing in my five gallons with that long of a veg but I've only seen it affect yield if I'm negligible about watering, dry periods will straight wreck a blooming plant in that small of a planter.
> 
> When it comes to aloe I prefer it live just because there are compounds that immediately start to degrade. There may be a beneficial reason to using the dried version in some applications, but I'm not aware of any. I usually keep my aloe and coco ratios at 1:1, in regards to how much of each per gallon.. Depends on how tired I am, how much coconut water I have, and how big my plants are lol. Usually I'll drain two young coconuts which yield anywhere from a half cup to two cups depending on age, blend it up with roughly equal amounts of aloe, then depending on how much I have I'll dilute it at anywhere from a quarter cup of 1:1 coco/aloe per gallon of water all the way up to 1:1 ratio of water: aloe/coco. But that heavy of a feeding is more so wasteful than anything. I only do it that heavy when I have a small amount of soil mass to water and the houseplants aren't thirsty. Nothing has ever shown stress from how heavy I use either, never. Not even when I watered my seedlings with pure aloe/coco and humic acid.


Thanks for the awesome reply!
Where do you buy your coconuts from though, amigo??
Cheers
DT


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## Midwest Weedist (Feb 23, 2016)

DonTesla said:


> Thanks for the awesome reply!
> Where do you buy your coconuts from though, amigo??
> Cheers
> DT


As much as I dislike the source (Krogers) it's the only one in my area. Finding Asian markets in the Midwest is.. Interesting if I don't want to drive to Chicago. They're usually just a tab bit over ripe. Had a couple spoiled ones once.
Cons of living in the middle of corn and soy fields


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## Vnsmkr (Mar 1, 2016)

Midwest Weedist said:


> Depends on a few variables, mostly my schedule outside the garden. If it was ideal I would be in much larger planters with that long of a veg time. Makes it easier to handle strains that are hungry or finicky about root space. Honestly there's always a slight bit of early yellowing in my five gallons with that long of a veg but I've only seen it affect yield if I'm negligible about watering, dry periods will straight wreck a blooming plant in that small of a planter.
> 
> When it comes to aloe I prefer it live just because there are compounds that immediately start to degrade. There may be a beneficial reason to using the dried version in some applications, but I'm not aware of any. I usually keep my aloe and coco ratios at 1:1, in regards to how much of each per gallon.. Depends on how tired I am, how much coconut water I have, and how big my plants are lol. Usually I'll drain two young coconuts which yield anywhere from a half cup to two cups depending on age, blend it up with roughly equal amounts of aloe, then depending on how much I have I'll dilute it at anywhere from a quarter cup of 1:1 coco/aloe per gallon of water all the way up to 1:1 ratio of water: aloe/coco. But that heavy of a feeding is more so wasteful than anything. I only do it that heavy when I have a small amount of soil mass to water and the houseplants aren't thirsty. Nothing has ever shown stress from how heavy I use either, never. Not even when I watered my seedlings with pure aloe/coco and humic acid.


@DonTesla @Midwest Weedist I use fresh aloe and fresh coco water very similar in the way you describe above with great results. Also I would say it should be fresh/live as it starts to degrade not long after its exposed to air (I assume). I do both foliars and waters with them both separately as well. The salacyllic acid is beneficial absolutely. You can clone with it like no ones business as well, wrap broken stems with it to heal up, etc etc etc. I will also use fresh aloe to aid in other foliars bc of its properties....


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## Vnsmkr (Mar 1, 2016)

DonTesla said:


> Thanks for the awesome reply!
> Where do you buy your coconuts from though, amigo??
> Cheers
> DT


On the corner 2 minute walk from my house, but there are literally 1000's around . Sorry @DonTesla I couldnt resist


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## DonBrennon (Mar 2, 2016)

Big up Gill & Pat, the following plant had a root drench of 2L filtered water, 2 tsp fermented fruit juice, 1 tsp cal/phos, 1 tsp fermented clover SST all made using their technique's. Not a single bottled product was used. They've not seen fulvic, silica, seaweed extract, aloe or coconut water for over 2 weeks and I've never seen a plant pray like that before, some of the leaves are almost vertical lol


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## Vnsmkr (Mar 2, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> Big up Gill & Pat, the following plant had a root drench of 2L filtered water, 2 tsp fermented fruit juice, 1 tsp cal/phos, 1 tsp fermented clover SST all made using their technique's. Not a single bottled product was used. They've not seen fulvic, silica, seaweed extract, aloe or coconut water for over 2 weeks and I've never seen a plant pray like that before, some of the leaves are almost vertical lol
> View attachment 3621489 View attachment 3621491 View attachment 3621492 View attachment 3621494


Church in session eh. They look really good. Mine do the same after a blast of aloe or coconut water


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## DonTesla (Mar 2, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> Big up Gill & Pat, the following plant had a root drench of 2L filtered water, 2 tsp fermented fruit juice, 1 tsp cal/phos, 1 tsp fermented clover SST all made using their technique's. Not a single bottled product was used. They've not seen fulvic, silica, seaweed extract, aloe or coconut water for over 2 weeks and I've never seen a plant pray like that before, some of the leaves are almost vertical lol
> View attachment 3621489 View attachment 3621491 View attachment 3621492 View attachment 3621494


Shit son,
nice work! @DonBrennon 

What's the fermented fruit juice... Got a link to recipe??


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## DonBrennon (Mar 2, 2016)

DonTesla said:


> Shit son,
> nice work! @DonBrennon
> 
> What's the fermented fruit juice... Got a link to recipe??


Thanks and yeah, it's basically this http://theunconventionalfarmer.com/recipes/bloom-fertilizer/ - but with these ingredients - Banana, mango, carrot, kiwi, Dandelion flowers. The other additives are from the same website (eg Calphos and SST)


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## Vnsmkr (Mar 2, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> Thanks and yeah, it's basically this http://theunconventionalfarmer.com/recipes/bloom-fertilizer/ - but with these ingredients - Banana, mango, carrot, kiwi, Dandelion flowers. The other additives are from the same website (eg Calphos and SST)


I like that website. Quality


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## NHS Garden Gurus (Mar 4, 2016)

If it works, who can tell you it's wrong to garden with it? Always wash your vegetables.



Kalyx said:


> This is a common practice in many parts of the world/cultures. My buddy pulled a quick switch this spring because his daughters tree didn't make it through the winter. He timed it right and she just thought it got a slow start that spring! Its ok IMO all life comes from death with microbes doing the magic transition! Its just like planting a corn kernel in a fish carcass back in the day.
> 
> Instead of buying your kid a case of wine from the year of their birth, I was thinking the cannabis version would be like grow a dank plant with your childs placenta tea then make hash and save it for when you bust them toking. So this is "your hash"... and I only want you smoking the good stuff kid. Me personally I'd rather have that than a case of aged bordeau any day!
> 
> I still have my daughters (heart shaped, rare!) placenta in the freezer, maybe I will use it to make some tea on some plants like I said above. I did pump the water and afterbirth (home birth was great!) from the puddle birth (we were gonna do a water birth but she came when it was only 5" full!) right into my tomato bed and they are doing great this year even though they got seeded late by a new dad gardener who was about one and a half months behind schedule. MMmmm homegrown tomatoes, one thing I LOVE about late summer.


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## MileHighGlassPipes (Mar 27, 2016)

I put crystals in all of my notill pots. Crystals tune "bad" frequencies into "good" frequencies so I thought, "why not".


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## Rrog (Mar 29, 2016)

crystals, eh... How about gnomes? They tune energy I heard


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## Michael Huntherz (Mar 29, 2016)

Rrog said:


> crystals, eh... How about gnomes? They tune energy I heard


Crystals tune, gnomes compose, and elves conduct. You have to run all three to see the real benefits.


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## Rrog (Mar 29, 2016)

Holy shit do you have the quick wit this morning @Michael Huntherz !!!


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## Michael Huntherz (Mar 29, 2016)

Rrog said:


> Holy shit do you have the quick wit this morning @Michael Huntherz !!!


Hey-o! You started it! 
Wait 'til I smoke this bowl and drink my coffee, I'll be on fire!
I've been lurking on the organic threads lately, I'm going back to soil.


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## Rrog (Mar 29, 2016)

This is good news!


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## MileHighGlassPipes (Mar 30, 2016)

Rrog said:


> crystals, eh... How about gnomes? They tune energy I heard


There is actual science behind quartz crystals tuning Frequencies. Will they tune bad plant frequencies , or pest frequencies into a good frequencies? probably not, but they look awesome in the garden. 

If you read books, a good one is "Tuning into nature", it will blow most peoples minds.  

I have only known a literal handful of people that have read it.


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## Rrog (Mar 30, 2016)

Being a classically trained science student, I'll pass on the crystal book. Just like I'm not jumping to read about flat earths and faked moon landings.


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## MileHighGlassPipes (Mar 30, 2016)

Rrog said:


> Being a classically trained science student, I'll pass on the crystal book. Just like I'm not jumping to read about flat earths and faked moon landings.


Your "classical training" taught you to speak before researching? 

It's not about crystals, it's about plants, and insects.
http://www.amazon.com/Tuning-Nature-Philip-S-Callahan/dp/0911311696

You crack me up.


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## Rrog (Mar 30, 2016)

I try to remain amusing. 

"Actual science behind quartz crystals" I guess is " not about crystals" 

"plant frequencies," "pest frequencies" I think you're on one of those. Pretty sure.

Doesn't matter to me. Just observing


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## MileHighGlassPipes (Mar 30, 2016)

Rrog said:


> I try to remain amusing.
> 
> "Actual science behind quartz crystals" I guess is " not about crystals"
> 
> ...


You continue to amuse. I have learned so much is just the past couple of posts.


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## Rrog (Mar 30, 2016)

You're not a scientist so you're not bound by the laws of physics, empirical testing or peer reviewed studies. Believe what you will and move along


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## MileHighGlassPipes (Mar 30, 2016)

Rrog said:


> You're not a scientist so you're not bound by the laws of physics, empirical testing or peer reviewed studies. Believe what you will and move along


Just when you thought it couldn't get better, it does!


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## Michael Huntherz (Mar 30, 2016)

Gnomes, crystals, elves, pseudoscience, mystical charlatanism, not my jam at all.

If one wanted to learn about the real power of crystals one could study laser chemistry and spectroscopy.

Science is more magical than "magick" is, to me. The Universe is sufficiently interesting that I no longer feel the need to build extensions-of-imagination into my experience of it.


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## MileHighGlassPipes (Mar 31, 2016)

With science, what you think is "fact" today can be proven "fiction" tomorrow. 

The reverse applies as well.

The one thing that every "scientist" should know is that "science" is as fluid as the oceans water 

Being that you guys have the answer to everything, i'm sure you already knew that though right?

"Classically" trained and all. 

An "academic" talking about how educated he is, is the equivalent of the 45 year old guy with the sports car. 

"But I'm so smart!" The problem is who are you trying to convince, us, or yourself? - Turns sarcasm off.


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## Michael Huntherz (Mar 31, 2016)

MileHighGlassPipes said:


> With science, what you think is "fact" today can be proven "fiction" tomorrow.
> 
> The reverse applies as well.
> 
> ...


Science doesn't have all the answers, but all of the best answers we have came from where?

Science.

What are we supposed to aspire to other than intellectualism?

Do you have a better idea of something to do, aside from becoming as educated as one can?

Is there some better way to actualize one's potential in life?

If intellectualism is so bad, what's your alternative approach to living?

Scientists predicted the existence of the Higgs Boson mathematically without instruments that could prove it, and when the instrumentation was finally built, they found evidence to suggest they were correct. That is amazeballs, and if you don't think so then you don't understand what it means.

I don't know what you know about science, so I'm not going to assume that you're ignorant of it. Scientists are aware the discipline requires constant revision, that's the whole point.

If _you_ can think of a better system to learn about the universe around us than the Scientific Method, please share it with the world!

If you feel like someone is being a know-it-all it is probably a sign that your views could use some revision. That's called education.

Your response to my post was uncalled for, frankly.

In conclusion, you're an asshole.

I'm a 42 year old guy with a sports car. I bought it because I want to have lots of sex with young women, but I'm old, ugly, and fat. You have a problem with that? You must be in your twenties.

Also, I'm not a scientist, *I'm a high school dropout*, but I read a fuckton of books. Almost exclusively non-fiction, because I'm interested in the world. And yeah, I'm smart, deal with it.


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## Rrog (Mar 31, 2016)

In conclusion... this guy teleported outta nowhere, started immediately talking bullshit, and continues to goad and bait. Doesn't seem like a good biz move, but then again, no one said he's good at biz.


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## slapmehard (Apr 2, 2016)

sometimes you can be too smart,not sure if science has proven this or not.
there is a lot of things you can not learn in a book...maybe a chapter he missed, it don't make him a bad guy thou


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## Rrog (Apr 2, 2016)

That sounds a little like saying sometimes you can have a map that's too accurate


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## Al Yamoni (Apr 9, 2016)

Alfalfa ferment
Recipe from the unconventional farmer
I love this website...


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## iHearAll (Apr 10, 2016)

When quartz is exposed to any change in it's crystaline shape from pressure or decompression, it emmits an electrical voltage high enough to spark. When an electron moves a magnetic field is produced/exposed and emmits an eddy current to nearby conductors/ferromagnetic materials. 
 
All living things know when electricity is flowing through or sometimes even near them!


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## Al Yamoni (Apr 11, 2016)

iHearAll said:


> View attachment 3653975
> When quartz is exposed to any change in it's crystaline shape from pressure or decompression, it emmits an electrical voltage high enough to spark. When an electron moves a magnetic field is produced/exposed and emmits an eddy current to nearby conductors/ferromagnetic materials.
> View attachment 3653978
> All living things know when electricity is flowing through or sometimes even near them!


Super cool! Thanks for the share..


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## MileHighGlassPipes (Apr 22, 2016)

iHearAll said:


> View attachment 3653975
> When quartz is exposed to any change in it's crystaline shape from pressure or decompression, it emmits an electrical voltage high enough to spark. When an electron moves a magnetic field is produced/exposed and emmits an eddy current to nearby conductors/ferromagnetic materials.
> View attachment 3653978
> All living things know when electricity is flowing through or sometimes even near them!


Nice info!


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## Rrog (Apr 23, 2016)

iHearAll said:


> All living things know when electricity is flowing through or sometimes even near them!


Why do I feel this is another example of a stoner taking a piece of science and twisting it into stoner science.


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## iHearAll (Apr 23, 2016)

Ok, thay part was a stretch. The science is real. Go get a crystal and see what kind of voltage.you.can get. There are tutorials around the web. You can also apply a current across it if the crystal is sandwhiched between two conductors. It will vibrate and you'll be able to hear it if it's below 20kHz. (Average peak frequency of human hearing) The animals who have more sensitive ears would be capable of hearing higher frequencies. 

The spark ingition of a lighter is a small quartz crystal with a wire on one end and a hammer on the other. When you push down on the spring loaded hammer, the hammer hits the crystal and a spark comes off the wire towards a conductor. If you charge the air around you with no exit for the current, the electrons will be passed around through the gas atoms and until used up. This will cause the atoms to torque and shift locations as well. So, there MAY be some science behind the idea that living things can tell when these things happen. Because it's like a sad clown tickling your butt with a feather. Whether you recognize the feather and the butt tickling is up to cognition. If you recognized.your butt was being tickled by a feather held by a sad clown you may attack the clown and further it's sadness. Nobody know the sex of this clown though.... if it were a chick clown and you wanted it...then, youd stick around and meditate,


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## MileHighGlassPipes (Apr 23, 2016)

Rrog said:


> Why do I feel this is another example of a stoner taking a piece of science and twisting it into stoner science.


Feelings have not been validated by the scientific process, thus you are not allowed to have them.


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (Apr 23, 2016)

l'm about to start vermicomposting..

(Edit)Are these unconventional?

What about mud dauber nests that have already hatched? Orange : Clay, Grey/Black : Soil. Usually each chamber contains fragments of insect or spiders, molt from the wasp pupate.

The slime from a fresh water fish tank filter?

Old beer that went rank?


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (Apr 23, 2016)

Also as an alternative to oyster flour, do you all think barnacle shells powdered would work? I could just put a thin paving slab in the intracoastal and it'll be loaded with them in a month.


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## DonBrennon (Apr 24, 2016)

RuRu.The.Half.Elf said:


> Also as an alternative to oyster flour, do you all think barnacle shells powdered would work? I could just put a thin paving slab in the intracoastal and it'll be loaded with them in a month.


You could I suppose, but it sounds like a lot of work for a bit of calcium, if you can't get oyster flour, get the grit and grind it up. It's very cheap at any feed store that sells chicken keeping supplies.


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (Apr 24, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> You could I suppose, but it sounds like a lot of work for a bit of calcium, if you can't get oyster flour, get the grit and grind it up. It's very cheap at any feed store that sells chicken keeping supplies.


Cuttlebone work as yet another calcium alternative? Cheap and usually at all pet stores. Even Wallyworld has it.

I could also harvest oysters themselves, they take a good time to get to size, but they are prolific. Thinking the thick foot plate would dull up a (blender/coffee grinder).

I could also use some pallet wood and collect worm coral (I like the name ).
http://s183.photobucket.com/user/2558SW/media/IMG_0708.jpg.html
Not my photo but it is this stuff, turns to dust as you scrape it. A fine dust that floats away in the wind if it is too dry.


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## iHearAll (Apr 26, 2016)

RuRu.The.Half.Elf said:


> Cuttlebone work as yet another calcium alternative? Cheap and usually at all pet stores. Even Wallyworld has it.
> 
> I could also harvest oysters themselves, they take a good time to get to size, but they are prolific. Thinking the thick foot plate would dull up a (blender/coffee grinder).
> 
> ...


What scale are you talking about implementing? If you have kilo of eggshells, char them and mix with a liter of vinegar uncover for a week. You can use it in waterings @ 1:100 dilution after the week long extraction. Or charred bones and you get phosphorus. Pretty much the cost of vinegar if you regularly eat eggs, chicken wings, ribs, hunting scraps, etc. I've found deer skeletons in the area. If you're talking about a garden bigger than 40x40 ft then you could build a rock crusher with an electric motor, a large metal tube conneted to the motor by bike chain and gear, and a car axle inside the tube. The tube spins and the axle rolls over the material you stuff it with. If you cover one end completely and the other you can put a small slit on to pour out the powder as it gets crushed. Tilt the entire crusher ever so slightly lower at the slit end. (Like a cm or less off balance). Then get loads of shells, quartz, bones, frog, birds, hands of orphans, your ex, your dick and balls,... whatever you got, and smash it. You can make azomite this way from rocks. Sustainable agriculture's method of trace elements.


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (Apr 26, 2016)

No where near that much. Maybe a half pound total? Just being frugal/thrifty, rather do some work and spend less monies. I'll for sure get some orphans though. Does it matter if the hands are labored prior to crushing? JK


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## Michael Huntherz (Apr 26, 2016)

Rrog said:


> Why do I feel this is another example of a stoner taking a piece of science and twisting it into stoner science.


I liked the post on quartz, and I think there's a sense in which that statement is true, but I'm always wary. I fell for a lot of pseudoscience as a young person, and I see a lot of people suffering in real ways because of bad advice based on it.

The world of science is amazing enough to keep my interest, I don't need magic or mysticism.

Here's one the crystal folks will probably misappropriate any day now.

Beryl (emeralds and aquamarines are beryls) has tiny bits of water inside that are compressed into incredibly small spaces. Channels in the crystalline structure 5 angstroms wide. At very low temperatures it actually enters a state of quantum nonlocality for which there is no analog in our experience of the world. A single hydrogen atom is located in six different places along the channel simultaneously. I may have a few of the details inexact, I'm paraphrasing this:

https://www.ornl.gov/news/ornl-researchers-discover-new-state-water-molecule
Which says they've recreated this behavior in the lab.

Here's the wikipedia article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunneling_of_water

My little organic grow is going well enough, I wanted at least part of this rant on topic. I just flipped to 12/12.

One love...bitches.


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## iHearAll (Apr 27, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I liked the post on quartz, and I think there's a sense in which that statement is true, but I'm always wary. I fell for a lot of pseudoscience as a young person, and I see a lot of people suffering in real ways because of bad advice based on it.
> 
> The world of science is amazing enough to keep my interest, I don't need magic or mysticism.
> 
> ...


Both these are super dope! 

I think crystal meditation is certainly mystified meditation. When the real power is being reminded of simplicity and beauty of natural materials. The rocks a smooth to touch and easy to look at. So, it would make it just slightly easier to get to "that place" in our minds.


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## iHearAll (Apr 27, 2016)

Growing in "BYOdynamics" (i just made that up.. corny eh?) and fermented kitchen garbage. 

And a 1/4lb cut and up to dry


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## iHearAll (Apr 28, 2016)

RuRu.The.Half.Elf said:


> No where near that much. Maybe a half pound total? Just being frugal/thrifty, rather do some work and spend less monies. I'll for sure get some orphans though. Does it matter if the hands are labored prior to crushing? JK


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/SA-10.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwi42siD5bHMAhWJWCYKHWFfByMQFggcMAA&usg=AFQjCNEIrTv9DFbzPz6E6DA5kFIHxyWLeg&sig2=ChIjrbBuYGwlekGnHAHyHw
Here's a scholarly article from University of Hawaii on water soluble calcium from eggs shells. So, if you want to attempt it, you'll have a solid amount of data. Or google "water soluble calcium" OR "charred eggs shells vinegar ". I don't think it lingers in the soil like lime does. I havent had any problems adding it sporadically (once a month in later veg).


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## DonBrennon (Apr 30, 2016)

iHearAll said:


> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/SA-10.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwi42siD5bHMAhWJWCYKHWFfByMQFggcMAA&usg=AFQjCNEIrTv9DFbzPz6E6DA5kFIHxyWLeg&sig2=ChIjrbBuYGwlekGnHAHyHw
> Here's a scholarly article from University of Hawaii on water soluble calcium from eggs shells. So, if you want to attempt it, you'll have a solid amount of data. Or google "water soluble calcium" OR "charred eggs shells vinegar ". I don't think it lingers in the soil like lime does. I havent had any problems adding it sporadically (once a month in later veg).


Just don't use it as a foliar lol, or go very lightly with it, I wiped my last crop out with it. I may have gone a little strong on the application though, it totally fried most of my leaves just going into flower and the plants were never gonna be able to produce anything and are now an expensive mulch pmsl. Schoolboy error and lesson learned, I'll personally never use it as a foliar again and use it sparingly in a drench if I notice a specific cal def.


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## iHearAll (Apr 30, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> Just don't use it as a foliar lol, or go very lightly with it, I wiped my last crop out with it. I may have gone a little strong on the application though, it totally fried most of my leaves just going into flower and the plants were never gonna be able to produce anything and are now an expensive mulch pmsl. Schoolboy error and lesson learned, I'll personally never use it as a foliar again and use it sparingly in a drench if I notice a specific cal def.


Id wonder if the soil had enough calcium already. I use the bone calcium phosphate 2-3 time in late veg early flower and its fine. Definitely stay on the weak side with foliar sprays. Iv burned plants recently as well with mixing stuff together and having too much somewhere in.


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## DonBrennon (May 5, 2016)

Just added some pretty rotten stinky fruit and veg, which I'd forgotten about for a couple of weeks on to the compost pile(it was too smelly to go in my worm bin). Anyway, decided to give it a good spraying of lacto serum, cos I've read that it get rids of these kind of smells. While I was at it I gave my outdoor fruit trees a foliar with it too.........................and my dog walked past, who could do with a bath really and is a bit smelly, so he got it too pmsl, he actually enjoyed it. 

Hahaha.......it works too, I wouldn't say the foul smell in the compost pile is totally eradicated yet, but it certainly smells much better than it did an hour ago and my dog definitely smells better


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## ak84 (May 28, 2016)

iHearAll said:


> What scale are you talking about implementing? If you have kilo of eggshells, char them and mix with a liter of vinegar uncover for a week. You can use it in waterings @ 1:100 dilution after the week long extraction. Or charred bones and you get phosphorus. Pretty much the cost of vinegar if you regularly eat eggs, chicken wings, ribs, hunting scraps, etc. I've found deer skeletons in the area. If you're talking about a garden bigger than 40x40 ft then you could build a rock crusher with an electric motor, a large metal tube conneted to the motor by bike chain and gear, and a car axle inside the tube. The tube spins and the axle rolls over the material you stuff it with. If you cover one end completely and the other you can put a small slit on to pour out the powder as it gets crushed. Tilt the entire crusher ever so slightly lower at the slit end. (Like a cm or less off balance). Then get loads of shells, quartz, bones, frog, birds, hands of orphans, your ex, your dick and balls,... whatever you got, and smash it. You can make azomite this way from rocks. Sustainable agriculture's method of trace elements.


What does the Quartz do? I found some chicken grit in my local petshop that consisted of ash, crushed seashells, red rock (?) and something else (no salt tho). Would this work as a trace element mix? Also, I have access to a lot of marble dust (paste, since they cut marble with water). Do you know if marble offers anything else other than Calcium?


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## iHearAll (May 29, 2016)

ak84 said:


> What does the Quartz do? I found some chicken grit in my local petshop that consisted of ash, crushed seashells, red rock (?) and something else (no salt tho). Would this work as a trace element mix? Also, I have access to a lot of marble dust (paste, since they cut marble with water). Do you know if marble offers anything else other than Calcium?


http://www.growingagreenerworld.com/rock-minerals-as-soil-amendments/
Trace elements, granite would certainly be beneficial. Quartz is silica and trapped trace elements as well, not as great but abundant as riverstones here. Biodynamics would have you place quartz dust in a bullhorn and burry it over winter. Long drawn breaking down the crystal. Anyway.. calcium, mangesium, iron, and other elements in mineral forms.
http://www.gemrock.net/learn/rocks-minerals/
You'd only ever add rockdust once or twice a year depending on soil test results, that is if the soil test even measures the countless trace elements required. Check out azomite or similar products, somewhere is an ingredient list. It'll show you what to look for. Azomite is mined from one place i think. It just so happens to come out to be 70 some elements.

Edit: you'd be best not adding salts to your soil. Mayans apparently found that out the hard way.


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (Jun 12, 2016)

Something I can not find much info on, Coquina.
From Wiki: "Coquina is mainly composed of the mineral calcite, often including some phosphate, in the form of seashells or coral." - "..and the coquina was burned and made into fertilizer." - "Because coquina often includes a component of phosphate, it is sometimes mined for use as fertilizer."

So trace phosphates, loads of calcium. Available in ton size stones, pounds size rocks, chunky gravel (like lava rock), and crushed (with sand or washed).

Anyone have any ideas of possible use? Char some washed/crushed on a grill plate and amend to soil in place of lime where lime is used?


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## kilojay619 (Jun 22, 2016)

SILKWORM CASTINGS! been using them for the 1st time this season as a top dressing with some great results so far


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## backtracker (Jun 23, 2016)

kilojay619 said:


> SILKWORM CASTINGS! been using them for the 1st time this season as a top dressing with some great results so far


i use insect frass (poop) wonder if it is the same as silkworm castings https://www.monstergardens.com/Insect-Frass,-2-lbs.&filter_name=fras


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## iHearAll (Jun 23, 2016)

Good npk ratio. I just Google the silkworm and keeping them ad livestock is pretty popular. Never heard of doing that, but doesn't mean it's not a grwat idea. They fuck up some trees locally.

Is the poo brown/black or green?


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## JoeJrDied (Jun 23, 2016)

I go to the fish market and get buckets of free fish heads and spines and plant them below each plant in my outdoor garden. Really good for tomatoes. I put a bunch under a little weed plant that I tricked back into vegging after I fully flowered the plant. 

Its gonna be an interesting grow, I just kinda tossed it outside.


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## kilojay619 (Jun 24, 2016)

backtracker said:


> i use insect frass (poop) wonder if it is the same as silkworm castings https://www.monstergardens.com/Insect-Frass,-2-lbs.&filter_name=fras


 Yes thats where I got the idea I have read great things about insect frass but that stuff is so expensive!


iHearAll said:


> Good npk ratio. I just Google the silkworm and keeping them ad livestock is pretty popular. Never heard of doing that, but doesn't mean it's not a grwat idea. They fuck up some trees locally.
> 
> Is the poo brown/black or green?


its black


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## Vlamingi (Jul 1, 2016)

Been using Epsom salts, coffee grounds, pee, leftover pasta water, milk, willow tree tea, well water, molasses, lactobacillus serum, crushed egg shells & banana peels were added to the soil back in April 2016. All are diluted with water when I use them. Making Calphos, grow formula & bloom formula right now. 16 going outside in northern tip NY, first time growing outside.


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## backtracker (Jul 1, 2016)

I hear that lit


Vlamingi said:


> Been using Epsom salts, coffee grounds, pee, leftover pasta water, milk, willow tree tea, well water, molasses, lactobacillus serum, crushed egg shells & banana peels were added to the soil back in April 2016. All are diluted with water when I use them. Making Calphos, grow formula & bloom formula right now. 16 going outside in northern tip NY, first time growing outside.


I hear that little kid pee is the best because they are growing so fast that whatever is making them do it is also in the pee. Asian folks at the com unity garden do it and they grow super nice plants.


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## Vlamingi (Jul 1, 2016)

I have willow tree leaves & tips fermenting right now, pretty crazy what the willow tree produces. When flowers start showing, I'll have a fermented banana, squash & carrots mixture. Been following this guy for awhile......theunconventionalfarmer.com


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## Dankmarchi (Jul 15, 2016)

irieie said:


> How much should I piss in my plants. Should I piss directly into the pots or should I pee into a cup and then mix it with water. I am thinking about the second route because I have trouble stopping midstream so measuring word be tough. What


This might have been answered already but ive read that its best to dilute it to about a 1 to 10 ratio and that if you collect your urine about 30 minutes after taking a multi vitamin it will be stronger not sure if its true but i have read that on other threads


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## VTMi'kmaq (Jul 26, 2016)

Id like to use 2-3 pds of mussel shells i have and throw them into my soil mix im cooking......my thouhts were to boil them then throw em in an old pillowcase to smask/pulverize with my 5 lb mini sledge .......does anyone have expriance with this?


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## testiclees (Jul 26, 2016)

*News release: ODA issues stop sale and removal orders on 14 horticultural products*

*http://odanews.wpengine.com/news-release-oda-issues-stop-sale-and-removal-orders-on-14-horticultural-products/*


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## thewanderingjack (Aug 1, 2016)

HAHAHA I Love this thread!

I find it weird/crazy/hilarious that most of the stuff in here is about basically traditional composting... nothing unconventional about mussels, or scraps, or any other dead plant/animal matter... that's more conventional and traditional than modern ferts. Even things like vermicomposting... you're just putting nature in a box.

Currently using bag fertilizer... cheap stuff, worked out well though... trying to figure out composting in a SUPER humid, mostly cold environment...

I have known quite a number of people who used humanure... mainly urine, but also feces... I've never used feces... too much grossness factor unless you work out a good composting toilet (which are difficult to DIY and expensive to buy). I've used urine (1:10 ratio in water, as is generally recommended) with great success.

In general I think it's weird how we take so many resources out of our food cycle and call it waste. How many gardens could be fertilized with the amount of bodies NOT rotting in modern burials (Steel boxes, embalming etc...)? Or with our waste products? Anyone remember how much nitrogen there is in urine?


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## Aloha Terps (Aug 7, 2016)

I just started to add a couple of my homemade KNF inputs into my aquaponic system. so far I've added oyster shells mixed into the cinder rock. and a few oz's of fermented plant juice and fermented fruit juice.. 1 week into flower everything looks great.


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## Michiganjesse (Aug 22, 2016)

medical/420 said:


> my buddy uses his Dog SHIT on his vegible garden. and I piss/urinenate on my vegible garden. I knew a guy that would pick up road kill and thow it in a pile and let it compost and use it on his Weed plants


Dog shit is not tasty it is not the right manure at all


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## kilojay619 (Aug 23, 2016)

So I have been experimenting with a concentrated brew of silkworm frass (castings), kelp,molasses,fish emulsion,ground egg shells,bone meal, blood meal and humic acid. My goal is to make a ORGANIC mirco nutrient flowering bud sweller and fertilizer! I have 4 buckets hooked up to air stones much like a DWC set up where the mixture is brewing to aerate as well as continuously agitate the brew. I am going to let each of the buckets brew for a set amount of time to figure out what is the best time period for the brew. 3days,7days,10days and 14days. Please post any questions or suggestions. I will update as the project progresses


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## Orphan Crippler (Aug 25, 2016)

Currently fermenting some leaves from my last haze plant in a jar with a combination of Black Strap molasses 70% and 30% Sweet molasses. Recipe = 150g leaves fresh with about 150g molasses then using coconut water+ a bit of aloe juice raise the water level to cover the material in the large mason jar and a small splash of em microbes.
The 150g leaves basically fill the jar to the top.

Now for the wait of a few weeks to ensure that the plant matter has dissolved and then I will have a FPE that can really give a kick in the vegetative phase.


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## MeJuana (Sep 15, 2016)

Orphan Crippler are you not adding air so this is an anaerobic bacterial process? I'm all about separating myth from fact so I would love to hear your results.


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## TeamSuperman (Sep 15, 2016)

irieie said:


> How much should I piss in my plants. Should I piss directly into the pots or should I pee into a cup and then mix it with water. I am thinking about the second route because I have trouble stopping midstream so measuring word be tough. What


So it's funny because last week I posted about using an urea foliar spray to promote blooming, and someone was like, I thought this was an organics forum.. and I'm sitting there thinking to myself "Urea is an organic compound derived from mammalian urine. It's literally where we get the word urine from." The other one that bothers me is ammonia. Ammonia is also a metabolic waste. Why are these things not considered organic?


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## iHearAll (Sep 15, 2016)

RuRu.The.Half.Elf said:


> Something I can not find much info on, Coquina.
> From Wiki: "Coquina is mainly composed of the mineral calcite, often including some phosphate, in the form of seashells or coral." - "..and the coquina was burned and made into fertilizer." - "Because coquina often includes a component of phosphate, it is sometimes mined for use as fertilizer."
> 
> So trace phosphates, loads of calcium. Available in ton size stones, pounds size rocks, chunky gravel (like lava rock), and crushed (with sand or washed).
> ...


you can char and extract Ca & P with vinegar or compost it. try conposting in bokashi but iv noticed that things that are typically underwater have a tough time breaking down without inititally break them down. shells for one. id like to see someone with a sustainable coral garden. that'd be sick.. this questions old, have you played around with your thoughts yet?


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## iHearAll (Sep 15, 2016)

MeJuana said:


> Orphan Crippler are you not adding air so this is an anaerobic bacterial process? I'm all about separating myth from fact so I would love to hear your results.


shouldn't he add some kind of concentrated microbe?? even a yeast starter takes constant feeding to grow a stable culture


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (Sep 18, 2016)

iHearAll said:


> you can char and extract Ca & P with vinegar or compost it. try conposting in bokashi but iv noticed that things that are typically underwater have a tough time breaking down without inititally break them down. shells for one. id like to see someone with a sustainable coral garden. that'd be sick.. this questions old, have you played around with your thoughts yet?


I was thinking about the gravel sized chunks for aeration.

I actually talked with some local garden club ol' biddys about making soil with just local stuff. Wild Muscadine grape leaves, palmetto fibers, Coquina gravel, gypsum "slime" from wells, local sources for livestock/chicken manure/hair/feathers, pond silt, Spanish moss (sun brewed plant tea, compost, aeration and mulch). Learned a bit and got even more ideas. Also got a free "Ice Cream" Banana pup.

What'cha mean by sustainable coral garden?


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## iHearAll (Sep 18, 2016)

RuRu.The.Half.Elf said:


> I was thinking about the gravel sized chunks for aeration.
> 
> I actually talked with some local garden club ol' biddys about making soil with just local stuff. Wild Muscadine grape leaves, palmetto fibers, Coquina gravel, gypsum "slime" from wells, local sources for livestock/chicken manure/hair/feathers, pond silt, Spanish moss (sun brewed plant tea, compost, aeration and mulch). Learned a bit and got even more ideas. Also got a free "Ice Cream" Banana pup.
> 
> What'cha mean by sustainable coral garden?


salt water aquarium with coral grows the coral realllly quickly if the water is tuned in just right. 

but yea definitely make your own soil from local naterials. forest peat is awesome stuff but harvest SUstAinAbly cuz ot takes forever to form.


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## subcool (Sep 18, 2016)

I have added Insect Frass to ythe mix we add 5 pounds

Sub


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## Orphan Crippler (Sep 19, 2016)

MeJuana said:


> Orphan Crippler are you not adding air so this is an anaerobic bacterial process? I'm all about separating myth from fact so I would love to hear your results.


Yes it is an anaerobic fermentation process much like the way BioBizz makes their solutions. 
More info can be found at theunconventionalfarmer.com about brewing your own Fermented Plant extracts as well as formulating your own lactic acid cultures.


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## Orphan Crippler (Sep 19, 2016)

iHearAll said:


> shouldn't he add some kind of concentrated microbe?? even a yeast starter takes constant feeding to grow a stable culture


I have it the EM stands for effective microbes and can be bought from most places either as EM1/SCD probiotics or as pond cleaner at your local hardware store. EM ferments and extracts the nutrients into your solution creating a nice organic liquid nutrient concentrate.


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## Orphan Crippler (Sep 19, 2016)

subcool said:


> I have added Insect Frass to ythe mix we add 5 pounds
> 
> Sub


There has been some good results utilizing Cockroaches to digest food scraps / plant matter and creating a compost that is rich and full of microbes. Can't say for sure how Roach Poop stacks up against EWC but they are prolific breeders and eaters so they are easy to maintain according to what I have heard and can covert inputs into compost quickly.


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## Orphan Crippler (Sep 19, 2016)

subcool said:


> I have added Insect Frass to ythe mix we add 5 pounds
> 
> Sub


If you are the same SubCool as in the TGA guy well my friend been a fan for many years so keep on keeping on : )
Your pics of Pinky Day many years ago were something special.


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## iHearAll (Sep 19, 2016)

Orphan Crippler said:


> I have it the EM stands for effective microbes and can be bought from most places either as EM1/SCD probiotics or as pond cleaner at your local hardware store. EM ferments and extracts the nutrients into your solution creating a nice organic liquid nutrient concentrate.


it's cultured from EM1 yes


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## Michiganjesse (Sep 19, 2016)

subcool said:


> I have added Insect Frass to ythe mix we add 5 pounds
> 
> Sub


Are you the real deal


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## Orphan Crippler (Sep 20, 2016)

iHearAll said:


> it's cultured from EM1 yes


Yes I used EM1


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## Orphan Crippler (Sep 20, 2016)

Just my 2c I Think that many people do not show enough patience when making their own FPE and bottle after a week or two. If you want you solution to be as highly concentrated as possible leave the fermentation process for at least a month to ensure that all the nutrients possible have been extracted. 
My fermented Banana/Papaya/Squash mix looked active at the 1 month mark so I left it for an additional two weeks before bottling. 
What is nice is that these ferments will last at least a year in the bottle as I have not had a fong smelling surprise yet : )


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## iHearAll (Sep 20, 2016)

Orphan Crippler said:


> Just my 2c I Think that many people do not show enough patience when making their own FPE and bottle after a week or two. If you want you solution to be as highly concentrated as possible leave the fermentation process for at least a month to ensure that all the nutrients possible have been extracted.
> My fermented Banana/Papaya/Squash mix looked active at the 1 month mark so I left it for an additional two weeks before bottling.
> What is nice is that these ferments will last at least a year in the bottle as I have not had a fong smelling surprise yet : )


yea i do about a month ferment at room temp or outdoors in the shade. then filter it, store the liquids in the fridge, and depending in what i just extracted i either compost it if its big stuff or mix it in the soil like bokashi if it's small particals (like juicer pulp). 

good stuff orphan crippler

i use this garden technique in my vegetable garden as well. works fantastic. here's some of myJupiter OG grown in FKG and fed with FPE. 
  
i cut these 36hours ago. looks good for having been grown in my kitchen scraps.


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## Orphan Crippler (Sep 20, 2016)

Those nugs do look good there : ) Even better since you know what all your inputs are. 2 Claps on the back for you.


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## Orphan Crippler (Sep 20, 2016)

MeJuana said:


> Fermented plant juices is what it is called I think. I already have so many experiments right now or I'd try some of those also. It is said (without em1) the chances of making good bacteria are equally as well as making bad bacteria. (again without em1, we know with em1 the odds change back to our favor)


You can also use a couple capsules worth of probiotics which are also lactic acid bacteria.


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## MeJuana (Sep 20, 2016)

Orphan ok I'm with it now fermented plant extract. I would try doing these experiements but I'm already at capacity for experiementing lol


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## iHearAll (Sep 20, 2016)

yea if you use 1kilo organic mass to 1 liter of water to be fermented. the final product can be fed equal volume molasses (upon using) and should be diluted 1:100 in the watering can.
obviously the NPK value changes according to inputs but this way the concentration of each liquid you make will be the same. 

but that's just in my tek. it really doesnt matter as long as you dont change the pH too too much in your plant's diet.


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## verny (Sep 26, 2016)

malignant said:


> seriously, there are some people who take urine and waste very seriously and they have every right to post about their findings too, just trying to give them a place to do so, be respectful and dont be jerk, take this seriously or you may find your posts deleted.


guys,go easy on the pee,i shld know!,been there tried that.not a good idea.


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## Orphan Crippler (Sep 29, 2016)

Im not sure why I just thought of this only now but whilst activating a 1L of em I thought why not buy some botanicare hydroguard and use that as a stock culture? BHG is just an isolated form of bacillus bacteria and surely it can be used to ferment molasses in the same fashion as em1?

If this is the case then you could make 40L of Hydroguard for the price of 1L(ex molasses ect) at $22 on amazon + for me about another $40 in shipping and tax.


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## Orphan Crippler (Sep 29, 2016)

It would be worth it for me to buy and ferment if this is possible.


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## DonBrennon (Sep 29, 2016)

Orphan Crippler said:


> Im not sure why I just thought of this only now but whilst activating a 1L of em I thought why not buy some botanicare hydroguard and use that as a stock culture? BHG is just an isolated form of bacillus bacteria and surely it can be used to ferment molasses in the same fashion as em1?
> 
> If this is the case then you could make 40L of Hydroguard for the price of 1L(ex molasses ect) at $22 on amazon + for me about another $40 in shipping and tax.


If you've already got EM1, why would you need hydroguard?

If the hydroguard is just an isolated strain of bacillus, isn't EM1 a better direct replacement? 

I'm asking cos I've no experience of either and I'm about to buy some EM1


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## Orphan Crippler (Sep 29, 2016)

If anyone is interested in trying this experiment that has the product in their possession it would be a massive help.

for 1L and the recipe scales up or down easily enough.
40ml em1 + 40ml black strap molasses + 920ml water to give dome breathing space in the 1L bottle for shaking ect.
when pH of the solution drops to 3.8 or below and has rested at this pH for 5-7 days its ready for use.
That's how simple it is to make activated em1 so it may be the same for Hydroguard.


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## Orphan Crippler (Sep 29, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> If you've already got EM1, why would you need hydroguard?
> 
> If the hydroguard is just an isolated strain of bacillus, isn't EM1 a better direct replacement?
> 
> I'm asking cos I've no experience of either and I'm about to buy some EM1


The strain in Hydroguard works very well in Deep Water Culture and does not produce a clear bacterial slime apparently but I know for sure that em in your rez will produce some slime which would not harm the roots but could potentially clog your pumps or lines.


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## Orphan Crippler (Sep 29, 2016)

I use em in soil and coco and really like what it can do with composting but for direct hydroponic applications IT may be better especially if your days are hot.


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## iHearAll (Sep 29, 2016)

Orphan Crippler said:


> Im not sure why I just thought of this only now but whilst activating a 1L of em I thought why not buy some botanicare hydroguard and use that as a stock culture? BHG is just an isolated form of bacillus bacteria and surely it can be used to ferment molasses in the same fashion as em1?
> 
> If this is the case then you could make 40L of Hydroguard for the price of 1L(ex molasses ect) at $22 on amazon + for me about another $40 in shipping and tax.


teraganix (specifically) EM1 is a blend of bacteria. when you extend a liter of EM1 you get around 30L of EMextended over the course of making it. EAch bottle of EMextended is a duplicate of the mother culture but if you tried to make EMextended-extended you'll end up with an isolated lactobacillus. 

you would need to go fishing for some purple sulfur bacteria, yeast, and i forget what else. 

If you're looking for a cheap alternative to EM but is more biodiverse, consider kombucha making.


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## Orphan Crippler (Sep 29, 2016)

iHearAll said:


> teraganix (specifically) EM1 is a blend of bacteria. when you extend a liter of EM1 you get around 30L of EMextended over the course of making it. EAch bottle of EMextended is a duplicate of the mother culture but if you tried to make EMextended-extended you'll end up with an isolated lactobacillus.
> 
> you would need to go fishing for some purple sulfur bacteria, yeast, and i forget what else.
> 
> If you're looking for a cheap alternative to EM but is more biodiverse, consider kombucha making.


EM stock culture where I am from costs about $7 a Liter so its not the price of the product rather It would be nice to have bacillus Amyloliquefaciens specifically for hydroponic systems such as deep water culture or my choice the AutoPot XL.
Organics can benefit mineral hydroponics through the safety net that the microbes give offsetting bad bacteria such as pythium by not allowing them an opportunity to establish themselves.


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## iHearAll (Sep 29, 2016)

Orphan Crippler said:


> EM stock culture where I am from costs about $7 a Liter so its not the price of the product rather It would be nice to have bacillus Amyloliquefaciens specifically for hydroponic systems such as deep water culture or my choice the AutoPot XL.
> Organics can benefit mineral hydroponics through the safety net that the microbes give offsetting bad bacteria such as pythium by not allowing them an opportunity to establish themselves.


EM would do the same function. by applying EM and molasses in equal parts you are colonizing a culture and starving out a pathogen. save money perform many tasks. we use this in aquaponics as well.


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## Orphan Crippler (Sep 29, 2016)

iHearAll said:


> EM would do the same function. by applying EM and molasses in equal parts you are colonizing a culture and starving out a pathogen. save money perform many tasks. we use this in aquaponics as well.


The only problem I have found using EM1 in my hydroponic rez was that after about 4-5 days there would be a slime starting to develop around the tap inside on the thread. I would always get nervous at this and toss the rez and restart. this is an expensive procedure and thats why the bacillus Amyloliquefaciens apparently has the edge on EM1 in straight up hydro because it does according to the sales pitch and some user comments I have read produce any kind of slimy film in your rez.

For soil and coco mix I will stick to a combo of EM1 and EWC tea as its just great but for Pure Hydro it would be nice to have this as an alternative to using chlorine to keep your roots healthy also there are some hydro grower friends of mine that could definitely benefit from this not to mention many people on this forum.

I have taken this question to Grasscity and Thc talk to see what those guys have to say and will of course spread the word if there are any developments


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## iHearAll (Sep 29, 2016)

Orphan Crippler said:


> The only problem I have found using EM1 in my hydroponic rez was that after about 4-5 days there would be a slime starting to develop around the tap inside on the thread. I would always get nervous at this and toss the rez and restart. this is an expensive procedure and thats why the bacillus Amyloliquefaciens apparently has the edge on EM1 in straight up hydro because it does according to the sales pitch and some user comments I have read produce any kind of slimy film in your rez.
> 
> For soil and coco mix I will stick to a combo of EM1 and EWC tea as its just great but for Pure Hydro it would be nice to have this as an alternative to using chlorine to keep your roots healthy also there are some hydro grower friends of mine that could definitely benefit from this not to mention many people on this forum.
> 
> I have taken this question to Grasscity and Thc talk to see what those guys have to say and will of course spread the word if there are any developments


oh i see what you're saying. yea idk then. do you guys use em+molasses in your res or just the EM?


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## Orphan Crippler (Sep 29, 2016)

just the em1 straight.


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## iHearAll (Sep 29, 2016)

Orphan Crippler said:


> just the em1 straight.


i think the slim is a collection of dying bacteria. try using EM and molasses in equal parts. the EM will eat the molasses over the week or two you give it. they were probably starving previously. i think the aquaculture ratio of EM to water is 1:100-250... pretty broad..


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## Orphan Crippler (Sep 29, 2016)

iHearAll said:


> i think the slim is a collection of dying bacteria. try using EM and molasses in equal parts. the EM will eat the molasses over the week or two you give it. they were probably starving previously. i think the aquaculture ratio of EM to water is 1:100-250... pretty broad..


With hydro you would rather feed more microbes into the system as apposed to feeding the microbes with carbs in the system. If you add molasses directly to a system as an energy source for your bacteria in most cases problems arise and they can be irreversible the hydro slime threads are the stuff of nightmare.


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## Orphan Crippler (Sep 29, 2016)

Orphan Crippler said:


> With hydro you would rather feed more microbes into the system as apposed to feeding the microbes with carbs in the system. If you add molasses directly to a system as an energy source for your bacteria in most cases problems arise and they can be irreversible the hydro slime threads are the stuff of nightmare.


Those dosages are very high....


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## iHearAll (Sep 29, 2016)

right on^ ok yea that sounds like a pain in the ass


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## platt (Oct 1, 2016)

nice^here we have a mainstream 4% (by weight) simple sugars liquid culture recipe. Thought it was a truly act of faith coming across this things on riu organic section^ ...but here we go!


Orphan Crippler said:


> If anyone is interested in trying this experiment that has the product in their possession it would be a massive help.
> 
> for 1L and the recipe scales up or down easily enough.
> 40ml em1 + 40ml black strap molasses + 920ml water to give dome breathing space in the 1L bottle for shaking ect.
> ...


thats it then its all about reaching the ph in wich hydroguard bacteria thrives. ...or let it go & trust on their company isolates. Is this the week when we talk about piranha from ANutrients mommy? hahah



iHearAll said:


> i think the slim is a collection of dying bacteria. try using EM and molasses in equal parts. the EM will eat the molasses over the week or two you give it. they were probably starving previously. i think the aquaculture ratio of EM to water is 1:100-250... pretty broad..


not neccesarily dying bacteria` in most cases it could be described like a glued matrix with placental features.

Also, in da lab, a slightly increase in the 4% carbs LC startpoint recipe normally means a tremendous slower growth rate


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## Orphan Crippler (Oct 1, 2016)

Well considering that the only bacteria in hydroguard is Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens and no complex mixtures such as the above mentioned brand the concept is similar to brewing beer as you don't need complex equipment to make a yeast starter and a beer and have the same strain of yeast from start to finish.

In fact Daughter at the end you will have so much of the same strain of yeast that you could potentially make 2x300 times more beer than when you started with a small packet of culture.

now ask your self do large breweries keep buying more yeast from yeast companies or do they keep their own cultures? this is potentially exactly the same except with a isolated strain of bacteria.


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## platt (Oct 1, 2016)

yeah same happens to grape batches collected 400km far away from each other. The prevalent yeast [into the barrel or with the addition of the proper isolates] will blend all that fruit into the correct terpene profile. looks easy!


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## DANKSWAG (Dec 23, 2016)

Farmer's Hat said:


> Using milk on your compost and in your garden will probably come as a surprise to most. Upon closer inspection, however, it starts to make sense. The amino acids, proteins, enzymes and natural sugars that make milk a food for humans and animals are the same ingredients in nurturing healthy communities of microbes, fungi and beneficial bacteria in your compost and garden soil.
> 
> 
> read more http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/milk-and-molasses-magic-zbcz1402.aspx#axzz2w0dnplCV


I use low fat milk with acidophilus added with 10 parts rainwater as foliar to rid and prevent powdery mildew.
Then what I don't drink that spoils goes to compost.

DankSwag


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## dankesthours182 (May 25, 2017)

WyoGrow said:


> I will be running a DWC tomato grow using my ow urine as the bulk nutrient.... a little wood ash tossed in once the plants starts to set flowers. I'll post results in here.


Are you serious?


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## dankesthours182 (May 25, 2017)

Kalyx said:


> This is a common practice in many parts of the world/cultures. My buddy pulled a quick switch this spring because his daughters tree didn't make it through the winter. He timed it right and she just thought it got a slow start that spring! Its ok IMO all life comes from death with microbes doing the magic transition! Its just like planting a corn kernel in a fish carcass back in the day.
> 
> Instead of buying your kid a case of wine from the year of their birth, I was thinking the cannabis version would be like grow a dank plant with your childs placenta tea then make hash and save it for when you bust them toking. So this is "your hash"... and I only want you smoking the good stuff kid. Me personally I'd rather have that than a case of aged bordeau any day!
> 
> I still have my daughters (heart shaped, rare!) placenta in the freezer, maybe I will use it to make some tea on some plants like I said above. I did pump the water and afterbirth (home birth was great!) from the puddle birth (we were gonna do a water birth but she came when it was only 5" full!) right into my tomato bed and they are doing great this year even though they got seeded late by a new dad gardener who was about one and a half months behind schedule. MMmmm homegrown tomatoes, one thing I LOVE about late summer.


And this tops it, best part of the forums is right here, where it turns out we are growing our top shelf on dead puppies and piss, mostly


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## dankesthours182 (May 25, 2017)

dankesthours182 said:


> And this tops it, best part of the forums is right here, where it turns out we are growing our top shelf on dead puppies and piss, mostly


And also our afterbirths. This is awesome - I almost wish I didn't really think so, but it's true;
life feeds on life


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## dankesthours182 (May 25, 2017)

Justin5737 said:


> Take a nylon stocking and fill it with earth worm castings and some great white, bubble w/ an airstone in a couple gals of RO water.... noooooch!


Could I use this in my dwc buckets for hydro


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## dankesthours182 (May 25, 2017)

FR33MASON said:


> I use it and it works great... Living water for living soils.
> I use a powerhead to circulate and oxygenate the water. Stagnant water produces gram negative bacilli and fungi which can be pathogenic. If you have municipal water that has chloramine, you can add up to a max of 30% by volume into your holding reservoir. The bacteria will feed off the *chloramine* so tap water will actually help keep your water alive. I actually stopped using water conditioners to my aquariums over 10 years ago and remove only 20%, once a week and replace it with water straight out the tap and the plants and fish love it and in turn provide me with what I consider an awesome source of water.
> 
> EDIT: If you don't have tap water with chloramine, you can add a 1/4tsp of ammonia or a small sprinkle of your pee per 20 gal. of water every 3 to 5 days to keep your stored aquarium water alive.


My cats love a good 30/30/30 mix of rested tap water, filtered tap and tap, I read they like the chlorine, I think it helps mitigate the high levels of bacteria they would otherwise be using to digest raw food and associated bacteria. But just a theory, I like a little chlorine too sometimes

I really am dying to get a fish tank to try fishganics haha aquaponics!


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## Johnei (Jun 17, 2017)

One of the ingredients I use in my soil mix that I've been reusing for about 10 years now is when adding some ammendments back to the soil after a crop, I add organic hulled hemp seeds to the soil.


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## CaptainSnap (Jul 4, 2017)

Anyone ever use or see cherry stones for chicken grit? Claims on the bag it's perfect for container areation. However I saw aluminum oxide was at 3 to 4 percent! I'm trying to get away from perlite when I recycle my soil.


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## MrKnotty (Jul 5, 2017)

Hello fellow microbe nerds! Just thought I share some cool stuff I did this run. First is fermenting cannabis plants. Every time I topped I saved them, and fermented them. Plants absolutely loved when I fed the soil this concoction. I also fermented cannabis flowers that I cleaned out from the middle of my plants after they have been flipped for a month. Haven't used that one yet, but will when my outdoor goes into flower. Also dandelions are amazing to ferment. The ladies love those dandelion microbes when they are in flower! And for any other northern California residents, I fermented Star Thistle this year for veg. AMAZING! Try it next year and will be so happy you did!!!! Peace


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## cannetix Inc (Oct 17, 2017)

I've *experimented* with organic vegetable glycerine (Glycerol) as a foliar spray with interesting results. According to the following story from Penn State Universities' news department, Glycerol _"is easily absorbed by the leaves where it converts to a bioactive form known as glycerol 3-phosphate (G3P) which then reacts with a fatty acid species called oleic acid and changes the fatty acid profile of the cells."
_
_




_​
*http://news.psu.edu/story/319604/2014/06/30/research/worlds-cocoa-crop-could-get-big-boost-simple-non-toxic-spray*​
Long story short, in some model plant species, certain types of glycerol-related fatty acids appear to trigger plants defense mechanisms protecting plants against various pests including powdery mildew and is 100% flavourless & odorless so is safe to use on buds upto 2 weeks pre-harvest in my personal experience. 
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24863347* Application of glycerol as a foliar spray activates the defense response and enhances disease resistance of Theobroma cacao.*
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5030236/ *Application of Glycerol for Induced Powdery Mildew Resistance in Triticum aestivum L.*


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## Chunky Stool (Oct 18, 2017)

cannetix Inc said:


> I've *experimented* with organic vegetable glycerine (Glycerol) as a foliar spray with interesting results. According to the following story from Penn State Universities' news department, Glycerol _"is easily absorbed by the leaves where it converts to a bioactive form known as glycerol 3-phosphate (G3P) which then reacts with a fatty acid species called oleic acid and changes the fatty acid profile of the cells."
> _
> _
> 
> ...


Chitin also triggers plant defense mechanisms. Insect frass, bat guano, crab shell, etc...


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## DonTesla (Oct 20, 2017)

If Anyone has links to where to buy Prime Nutrients aka Better World insect frass please share cause that brand did wayyyy better than these last couple I have found.. Not a huge fan of plain mealworm frass etc but better world had amazing results.. I'd love to start making frass however they do it, cause it was gram for gram way more impressive.
Thanks all!


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## Fastslappy (Oct 22, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> If Anyone has links to where to buy Prime Nutrients aka Better World insect frass please share cause that brand did wayyyy better than these last couple I have found.. Not a huge fan of plain mealworm frass etc but better world had amazing results.. I'd love to start making frass however they do it, cause it was gram for gram way more impressive.
> Thanks all!


Stuff I get is soldier fly frass good shit


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## Chunky Stool (Oct 22, 2017)

Fastslappy said:


> View attachment 4031087
> Stuff I get is soldier fly frass good shit


Does NPK vary between brands? The stuff I use is 2-2-2, but I have no clue what they fed the insects. 
Hell I don't even know what kind of insect pooped it out...


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## Fastslappy (Oct 22, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> Does NPK vary between brands? The stuff I use is 2-2-2, but I have no clue what they fed the insects.
> Hell I don't even know what kind of insect pooped it out...


Some has more protein (insect parts ) but yeah what they eat , some r fed slaughter house bone to clean ,that hi protein stuff , if u get June bugs that cover sidewalks they r frass too


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## DonTesla (Oct 23, 2017)

Crickets and mealworms are lower grade, I think. The soldier flies are a step up I do believe. Are there any fungal numbers to go with that Synergy brand by chance @Fastslappy


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## Fastslappy (Oct 28, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> Crickets and mealworms are lower grade, I think. The soldier flies are a step up I do believe. Are there any fungal numbers to go with that Synergy brand by chance @Fastslappy


 NO The Owner Is a pro @ making tea machines the size of pick up trucks


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## Love Headies (Oct 29, 2017)

CaptainSnap said:


> Anyone ever use or see cherry stones for chicken grit? Claims on the bag it's perfect for container areation. However I saw aluminum oxide was at 3 to 4 percent! I'm trying to get away from perlite when I recycle my soil.


I actually tried crushed walnut shells instead of perlite this time. It did make the soil much lighter and gave my worms some grit at the same time. From what I understand they also contain nutrients when broken down.


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## Love Headies (Oct 29, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> Crickets and mealworms are lower grade, I think


Speaking of meal worms I have been adding frass from Super Worms. They are much larger than meal worms and they come in fine wood chips. Once my Bearded Dragon is done eating the super worms I add the crap to my compost. I know that super worms are high in Phosphorus so I would assume so is there crap. Maybe it would be good to add a decent amount during flower.


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## Michiganjesse (Oct 29, 2017)

Cann said:


> Couldn't agree more...I was just trying to say it a bit more subtly haha. Good to keep him in check tho...after that post I went around reading a bunch of his other posts and they were similarly misinformative...gotta watch out for those folks on RIU...its like 90% of the people on here lol.


I thought most peeps knew there stuff on here


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## Michiganjesse (Oct 29, 2017)

FR33MASON said:


> You reminded me of a point that I would like to make of one instance that you should not use live water and that is for cloning.
> I had never lost a single clone until I tried cloning with some live water once and lost the whole lot. I normally use municipal tap water which has choramine and like I mentioned, never lost a single clone which makes sense as the microbes will clog up the tissue of a cut stem and stem rot sets in. Your well water is fine as it does not have near the bacteria or fungi that live water does. Once you transplant an established clone, you can use the aquarium water which is what you mentioned you were going to do. I just wanted to clarify for others that are reading this thread.


I add just about 10% living water to my clone bucket and get better than I do with city water


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## DonTesla (Nov 2, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> Crickets and mealworms are lower grade, I think. The soldier flies are a step up I do believe. Are there any fungal numbers to go with that Synergy brand by chance @Fastslappy


Anyone that runs a Frass company and doesn't post numbers, well, I wouldn't buy anything they do. Just me.


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## DonTesla (Nov 2, 2017)

Love Headies said:


> Speaking of meal worms I have been adding frass from Super Worms. They are much larger than meal worms and they come in fine wood chips. Once my Bearded Dragon is done eating the super worms I add the crap to my compost. I know that super worms are high in Phosphorus so I would assume so is there crap. Maybe it would be good to add a decent amount during flower.


I would watch what you add in flower, especially from the poop realm, if you want that super clean smoke, less is more. Especially late.


----------



## StoneyStonebreaker (Jan 9, 2018)

l8lDANKl8l said:


> ive also heard its a common practice to grill the placenta and the mother to eat it. Supposed to be very nutritous. So whats with the aloe vera and transplant? what exactly do you do? im actually starting an aloe vera farm got a few pups gonna be making a variety of products. Anyways ill have alot of it ha so yea how does it benefit my other garden?


You scrape the gel from the inside of a alo vera leaf and mix this in with your foliar spray. The gel contains molecules called saponins. These are soap like substances and they break the surface tension of the water so that it coats the plant surface in an even layer and does not bead up. There are also nutrients in the gel that plants like, so you can put it in your soil.


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## dnt420 (Jan 10, 2018)

What do you guys think about almond, nuts, pistacho ecc.. shells ??


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## Tom Tucker 313 (Jan 21, 2018)

Composted taco bell


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## dnt420 (Jan 22, 2018)

Tom Tucker 313 said:


> Composted taco bell


I've heard people died waiting for a Mcdonalds burger go composted


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## ANC (Jan 28, 2018)

You can give your organics a boost with water that you clean aquarium filter media in.
I have never taken ppm readings as it is impossible to burn plants or new seedlings with it.
Yesterday I cleaned a particularly dirty filter in a 15L bucket of water and took a reading.
My tap water is about 47ppm and with the filter dirt in there all stirred up and the water nice and black ppm came back at 58ppm. You see many things won't show on a ppm meter, especially organics not from salt sources. Things like urea for example. The filter washing is also full of the bacteria that further break down this food.

I am not doing pure organics so I still add my nutes and calmag as per usual.

Edit, this is not the same as the ppm of the aquarium water. That is at least 100ppm more, but can also be used.





Nitrites are broken down into nitrates that end up in the filter.


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## RetiredGuerilla (Apr 2, 2018)

I grow near a pond over populated with bluegill. Early spring I always catch a few dozen and compost them in the bottom of my holes. Banana peels are under rated too. Epsom salt is a must !


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## CaptainSnap (Apr 3, 2018)

I keep all my fish waste from cleaning fish and bury them too! Its a great method handed down by our ancestors


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## MrKnotty (Apr 6, 2018)

My buddy buried their baby's placenta under a pot plant. It was the best looking plant I've ever seen. It's leaves were about 5 times bigger than any normal plant.


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## RetiredGuerilla (Apr 6, 2018)

MrKnotty said:


> My buddy buried their baby's placenta under a pot plant. It was the best looking plant I've ever seen. It's leaves were about 5 times bigger than any normal plant.


Oh no man you supposed to grill that


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## NoTillPhil (Apr 12, 2018)

Has anyone tried maple sap? Not boiled syrup but straight sap from the tree.


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## SCJedi (Apr 14, 2018)

I pulled my mountain bike down and put air in the tires today. 

I'm brewing my first batch of tea today and I rode with my tea bag to the park and used a stick to dig up the myco growing n the hardwood chips under the old oak trees. Bubbling it up with my tea recipe. When in Rome...


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## Dmannn (Apr 15, 2018)

DANKSWAG said:


> Humipost?


Old post, but one word, interesting, As a former government waste water treatment plant employee, using human waste is totally possible, and safe if done correctly. First off. You need to compost it with air AND without. You can do this by putting it in a bucket with water and urin and bubble it for a week of so, then you let it sit for a two weeks without bubble, VENTED! and keep away, you will have hydrogen sulfide gasses building, keep away from flame! then dilute 10:1 and bubble with some AACT stuff. black gold my friend.


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## Miyagismokes (Jun 20, 2018)

In the unconventional organics department...
This may not be all that unconventional, but potassium bitartrate, or cream of tartar, if you know your way around the kitchen, is a byproduct of winemaking and is returned to the soil after being filtered from wine in the industry.
As such, it's not really "unconventional" per se...
This also begs the idea of wine lees as an amendment, as well.


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## Anothermeduser (Jul 6, 2018)

Dmannn said:


> Old post, but one word, interesting, As a former government waste water treatment plant employee, using human waste is totally possible, and safe if done correctly. First off. You need to compost it with air AND without. You can do this by putting it in a bucket with water and urin and bubble it for a week of so, then you let it sit for a two weeks without bubble, VENTED! and keep away, you will have hydrogen sulfide gasses building, keep away from flame! then dilute 10:1 and bubble with some AACT stuff. black gold my friend.


Bubbling that seems pretty dedicated, as a young grower I had heard rumours of useing human feces so I had to try it, I used old outhouse shit, I prepped holes where I had room to put a bucket of shit in then do a prepped hole above it so I planted about 20" above the outhouse shit, did 4 holes like that that yr and best outdoor I've ever done, kinda gross doing it up though. Have never repeated this process since..


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## Dmannn (Jul 6, 2018)

Anothermeduser said:


> Bubbling that seems pretty dedicated, as a young grower I had heard rumours of useing human feces so I had to try it, I used old outhouse shit, I prepped holes where I had room to put a bucket of shit in then do a prepped hole above it so I planted about 20" above the outhouse shit, did 4 holes like that that yr and best outdoor I've ever done, kinda gross doing it up though. Have never repeated this process since..


When you removed it from the out house you had removed the waste that had already undergone at least a partial anaerobic decomposition (digester) and then added it to the soil. Most of the matter that is "recycled" from the digester goes into he ground as you described or further mixed with nitrogen greens and further anaerobically digested under tarps.


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## Miyagismokes (Jul 29, 2018)

One of these days I'm gonna find the perfect dog food for amendment....


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Jul 29, 2018)

With all the options that there are...
Why the hell would anyone compost human shit? Can’t you find a better way to play with science than with human waste? Lol dang.

I was wondering about starfish? I live in south central FL, 40 miles west of the east coast or so. Lots of beach trips with the family. Tons of starfish. I figured they’re probably loaded with calcium and nitrogen. 

Also can I just grab up seaweed for my compost piles and worm bins? Or can it only be certain types, and probably needs the salt rinsed off real good ? 

-Beard


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Jul 29, 2018)

Or are sea salts more valuable soil nutrients...


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## RetiredGuerilla (Jul 29, 2018)

NoTillPhil said:


> Has anyone tried maple sap? Not boiled syrup but straight sap from the tree.


NO but I bet money the plants would love it.


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## Pwezzy (Jul 29, 2018)

BigJon said:


> LMAO!!!!! "PUPPY PLANT BYATCH!" HAHA! Nice!
> 
> No better way to honor the memory of your pup! I been telling my friends, if I get cremated, I'm going to will them to put some of me in a soil mix, grow me out, then smoke me on my death anniversary.


My bad to bring up something old but thnx for the dope ass idea


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## Miyagismokes (Aug 1, 2018)

Pwezzy said:


> My bad to bring up something old but thnx for the dope ass idea


You never saw "How High"?


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## Pwezzy (Aug 1, 2018)

Miyagismokes said:


> You never saw "How High"?


Yeah thought about it as soon as i seen yo post


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

1337hacker said:


> Aloe vera is great as an antistress agent during transplants


it is also a saponin and so is a natural fungicide. it contains glucosides and a great number of other benefits, including enhancing nutrient uptake by converting water to more closely resemble the very same plasma found in all cells


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

WyoGrow said:


> I will be running a DWC tomato grow using my ow urine as the bulk nutrient.... a little wood ash tossed in once the plants starts to set flowers. I'll post results in here.


Perhaps you might try fermenting your urine in to something called Purine. fermentation makes most things better. if you Youtube Purine you will likely find vids. Dont forget, a great big citrus tree only needs about 20 urinations before it has its years quota of N. If you see aphids you have over done it


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

medical/420 said:


> my buddy uses his Dog SHIT on his vegible garden. and I piss/urinenate on my vegible garden. I knew a guy that would pick up road kill and thow it in a pile and let it compost and use it on his Weed plants


 i honestly see little value in putting NH4+ on to annuals who prefer NO3- but to each his own. Perhaps if you are having issues with pests through the cycle you ought to see this as a sign to change practice? if you dont get issues, all good


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

onlikepopcorn said:


> I use crawfish from the river up the road. I smash up about 5 good size ones for every gallon of soil. I also use alpaca manure. My total recipe is kind of eyeballed, but its basically perlite, vermiculite, crawfish, my forest mulch compost tea, alpaca manure and worm castings from the cow pasture. I used to use the cow manure, but I find the alpaca manure doesn't have as foul an odor when using indoors. I've had great results so far.


you should bokashi ferment the cow shit or any other manure to reduce the smell. The smell comes from putrefaction which is rotting, this is not great imo. You can use the juice from sauerkraut to prevent the foul odors


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

y


thecrazybotanist said:


> Only if you want to be locked up by the Zoo Police! LOL they sell that stuff or use it!


yes they sell it in most locations, or just compost it on site. A number of years ago we tried to secure the waste from a Zoo which we had planned to use as a bokashi but there was so much red tape we found other sources without the hassle.


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

anonz said:


> what about banana peels?


banana flowers make excellent FPJ


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

PJ Diaz said:


> Alfalfa meal tea for the Triancontrol compound (the chemical found in "snow storm ultra").
> 
> Spent hops in the compost pile from the local brewery.
> 
> ...


malted barley too while at the brewery, also to take the spent yeast waste if possible, excellent for fungal mass and so for perennials


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

sorethumb said:


> i take a ton of leafs off to similate an animal attack on my plants when they get too bushy and plot out the lights opps animal attack crazy i know but the weed gets you ripped i think it increases thc idk though i could just be f ing my plants up


it increases tannins.


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

farmit420 said:


> has anyone experimented with different types of worms or is the little earthworm guys the best option?


worms are very specialized, EG you cant put composting worms in to ground soil, well not unless you heap shit loads of um-composted organics on top. earth worms are the family you need if adding to soils.


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

sworth said:


> Bookworms! Just place them over the compost heap , and give a copy of "War and Peace"
> 
> View attachment 2386973
> 
> But seriously, tiger worms from the fishing shop...


LOL. best place for that long winded read is a compost pile imo


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

okiesmokey said:


> That makes sense, aloe vera has healing properties in the liquid. My question is how do you harvest it. Just pick the leaves and squeeze out the gel or is there a powder for purchase?


both  whole leaf extraction is better, its like kelp meal is better than liquid kelp


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

Snafu1236 said:


> The roots don't absorb the CO2 from the carbonated water...roots breathe O2..however, a disturbance at the root level by way of the carbonation creates a positive effect on the plant...my own theory is it has a positive effect on the physical environment of the roots...but I do not know what that is!
> 
> All I know is my plants love it from time to time!
> 
> Ps. You can foliar with carbonated water for a minimal CO2 uptake...but I have not seen a great effect by this method.


OK, so if you add CO2 and water to soil you get a light acid, this mild acid etches minerals from the parent material in plant ready states, eg many of the micro nutrients are made ready this way. CO2+O+H = COOH or carboxylic acid This is the fundamentals of nutrient cycling. More normally in LOS the aerobic microbes provide the CO2 along side the roots of the plant itself. This is why plants suffer in drought as they quickly lose access to critical micros. 
if you want to know how well your soil is working, you measure the burst rate of CO2 and not the NPK alone.


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

Cann said:


> Hmm...I guess I just need some science to figure out why it has a positive effect...I was assuming the leaves would breathe the CO2, not the roots, just thinking that maybe as you pour and the bubbles pop it releases a bunch of CO2 directly at the base of the plant...with a sealed room that would be a noticeable increase in ppm


go and have a look at Dr Rick Haney and Will Brinton, Solvita do the testing kits


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

Cann said:


> After doing a bit of reading online it appears that the mineral content of the water has a lot to do with it...apparently it can provide the plant with all the micronutrients it needs? Or something along those lines. Interesting....might have to give it a try...


not quite, the CO2 mixes with oxygen and hydrogen in water to make acid which chelate micros from bed rock or parent material


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

Cann said:


> Not the best advice for organics I don't think....H2O2 + microbeasties = chaos. The aerobic bacteria may love the extra oxygen boost, but any of the "good" anaerobic bacteria in your soil will be immediately fried...and these are harder to replace than the aerobic bacteria (just water with a nice AACT and you can replenish your aerobic population almost instantly, not necessarily the case with anaerobic).
> 
> For an O2 boost I would just say grow in airpots or smartpots...that will give your roots all the oxygen they could ever need


most microbes you are discussing are facultative, so they flip flop between aerobic and anaerobic depending on the levels of available DO2. You dont want Anaerobes they will cause rot. You must keep Dissolved O2 levels above 6ppms or you lose.


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

Snafu1236 said:


> Yikes! Never would I ever use Hydrogen Peroxide for ANYTHING in my garden, EVER!
> 
> You dump that on your plant, your plant dies. No two ways about that.
> 
> ...


i have seen it used to remove PM from infected plants post harvest


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

Dank Raptor said:


> hydrogen peroxide is used in hydro grows. Fairly common knowledge. Just not good for organics.


yes, without humans and aerobic beings, there would be dangerous levels of oxygen, this would act on many things in much the same way as Chlorine. Ergo you use it in Hydro as a disinfectant


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

Sincerely420 said:


> Peroxide has however done WORK on any cut that I can remember my mom tending to haha! Killed ALL THE BACTERIA!
> 
> Get an exhale C02 bag, hang it up and leave it there...That's gotta be uncontentional...Some say it don't do anything...Some swear by it..I'm on the swearing side just loking at my plants mmm.
> It's doing work for me...<$40 for 6 months C02? So easy a cave man could do it


not necessary in proper living organic soil. have you got a CO2 meter? may be what you see as better growth relates to you getting better at growing and not the near worthless bag of yeast you assume is offering benefits.
it is true CO2 is a plant growth limiting factor but CO2 alone is not an answer, it must be adjusted with RH% and Temps to be properly effective. Depending on the light you are using, you may also be wasting your money because the lumens you are putting out fall below the atmospheric threshold to enable an extra to be used.
EG lots of people run 1000W lamps with no extra CO2, where they dont also have LOS they are wasting money and watts. There are physical limits to growing, just because you have better covered the growing area, doesn't mean you are using 1000W efficiently. So you may see better buds at the edges, but overall you are still wasting money and power. A FACE application would be better than an Exhale bag but even this wont give you enough CO2 to use all 1000W. for mne if you use 1000W lamps you ought to be growing in a closed loop to avoid waste. if i was the boss i would legislate this too. being organic we ought to think more about the energy we use imo.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 10, 2018)

anyone here running sips, or proboitics? 

I've been working on that myself just looking for more info like always!


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## Dr.J20 (Nov 14, 2018)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> anyone here running sips, or proboitics?
> 
> I've been working on that myself just looking for more info like always!


Do you count it as sips if I don't have a soil wick?


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 15, 2018)

Dr.J20 said:


> Do you count it as sips if I don't have a soil wick?


Technically anything that pulls water up from the bottom is a sip! I think..


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## Dr.J20 (Nov 16, 2018)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> Technically anything that pulls water up from the bottom is a sip! I think..


Then I certainly run organic sips with AACT, SST, FPE etc. not really up on probiotics. I'm trying to sort out this high brix stuff right now, but i also really like the simplicity and results of my current practices so it's hard to be as intense about it. especially when I'm not really sure how sold I am on brix and pest-resistance which is one of my main interests in it.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 16, 2018)

Dr.J20 said:


> Then I certainly run organic sips with AACT, SST, FPE etc. not really up on probiotics. I'm trying to sort out this high brix stuff right now, but i also really like the simplicity and results of my current practices so it's hard to be as intense about it. especially when I'm not really sure how sold I am on brix and pest-resistance which is one of my main interests in it.


what I'm working on is exactly that! high brix, and simple as shit, once it's set up, it just runs itself! I can leave for 2 weeks at a time and not have to worry about anything!! check out this link, this is what I'm working on, you may find some of the info your looking for!

https://www.rollitup.org/t/greens-gorilla-glue-4.979073/


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## Dr.J20 (Nov 17, 2018)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> what I'm working on is exactly that! high brix, and simple as shit, once it's set up, it just runs itself! I can leave for 2 weeks at a time and not have to worry about anything!! check out this link, this is what I'm working on, you may find some of the info your looking for!
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/greens-gorilla-glue-4.979073/


i'll catch up over on your thread. be easy


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## ANC (Nov 24, 2018)

I have in another thread explained how calcium is crucial to the immune system for plants when it comes to fending off fungus and mold.
If you have root damage or a medium with an incorrect pH it may be hard to correct the issue, via the roots alone.
What you can do is make a foliar tea in the following way. Hardboil a few eggs in their shells, you can take out the eggs to eat, but keep the water.
use between. Top up the water with tap water until you have 1 liter of water to this add between 100 and 200ml of milk. It can be any dairy milk, fresh or expired.
The milk is a further source of calcium and is also antifungal.
Put it in a spray bottle, and spray down your plants.

This puts the antifungal milk on the outside of the plants, and increases the calcium inside the skin tissues, to bind with pectin and form a layer that the fungus can not penetrate when it sends out its runner for food and water.


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## projectinfo (Nov 27, 2018)

ANC said:


> I have in another thread explained how calcium is crucial to the immune system for plants when it comes to fending off fungus and mold.
> If you have root damage or a medium with an incorrect pH it may be hard to correct the issue, via the roots alone.
> What you can do is make a foliar tea in the following way. Hardboil a few eggs in their shells, you can take out the eggs to eat, but keep the water.
> use between. Top up the water with tap water until you have 1 liter of water to this add between 100 and 200ml of milk. It can be any dairy milk, fresh or expired.
> ...


could the milk be replaced with LABS, EM1, AEM, (Lacto Bacillus Serum)

?


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## ANC (Nov 27, 2018)

Yes, that5 is what the milk is the source for.
If you got Lacto bac, that is half the fight.


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## Booyah! (Dec 23, 2018)

Been chewing up Tumeric and spitting it into my compost tea. The orangish natural pigments are so penetrating they even dye the filter bag.


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## Skunk_E_Bud (Sep 7, 2019)

I like to fish and after cleaning my catch i'll weigh all the leftovers and add equal weight brown sugar, add some IMO4 and seal it up with one of those burping valves. There's no smell and in 6 months i have the best fish hydrolosate you can get for the price of a home depot bucket and brown sugar.


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## Redwood Ninja (Sep 18, 2019)

irieie said:


> How much should I piss in my plants. Should I piss directly into the pots or should I pee into a cup and then mix it with water. I am thinking about the second route because I have trouble stopping midstream so measuring word be tough. What



I know this is an old post but I just laughed my ass off


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## Father Ramirez (Nov 15, 2019)

Redwood Ninja said:


> I know this is an old post but I just laughed my ass off


Has anyone inquired about using their own feces as fertilizer? That’s gross. 
Actually... human pee is not a terrible idea IN AN OUTDOOR GARDEN. There are many undigested nutrients that pass through our systems with plenty of food left in them. Peeing first thing in the morning in the vegetable garden is quite common worldwide


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## Birdrussell (Nov 23, 2019)

I'm certain I'm not blowing anyone's mind by suggesting that pee and poop could be used with great success.


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## All-in (Dec 3, 2019)

Not sure if this is the correct thread for this but I saw on here somewhere that somebody that uses Bat guano as his/her only nutrient. They used different guanno for each stage. I would love more infor on that. As for Aloe Vera I use it solely as a rooting agent for my clones with higher rate of success. I have used milk both as a root drench as well as foliar feed. The milk mix is great for getting rid of powdery mildew.


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## All-in (Dec 3, 2019)

Father Ramirez said:


> Has anyone inquired about using their own feces as fertilizer? That’s gross.
> Actually... human pee is not a terrible idea IN AN OUTDOOR GARDEN. There are many undigested nutrients that pass through our systems with plenty of food left in them. Peeing first thing in the morning in the vegetable garden is quite common worldwide


I have read alot about this, rule of thumb is no feces from anything that eats meat. There is a difference in microorganisms between meat eaters and herbivores. You dont wanrt to use anything from a meat eater as fertilizer on any plant that you may ingest. Or just use it on pretty plants.


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## Seven Trees (Dec 13, 2019)

Apple Cider Vinegar -Home made
Kombucha - Home made
Lump Wood Char - Home made
Local Rock Dust - Personally sourced from quarry
Lava Stone (crushed) - Purchased & gathered
Eggshells - Saved
Seashells - Gathered
Seaweed - Gathered
Sea water - Gathered
Maple Leaves - Gathered
Alfalfa Meal - Purchased
Bark - Gathered, Purchased
Aloe - Home Grown
Rice - Purchased
Oats - Purchased
Bran - Purchased
Molasses - Purchased
Agave - Purchased
Honey - Purchased, Traded
Local Bee Pollen - Purchased
Compost - Purchased, Homemade
EWC - Purchased, Wild (earth-worm/ear-wig castings)

I recycle all my stalks (solid, fresh) into compost cut @ 2"-3" lengths, while dried/cured stalks (hollow) I use @ 1" lengths for potting mixes; leaves used as mulch; sifted shake used as in teas/topdresses.









Profile of Seven Trees - Strainly


Learn more about Seven Trees on Strainly




www.strainly.io


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## locario (Jan 10, 2020)

hello. what can be told about plant juice ? - putting fresh aloe cuttings and tossing them in the blender with water. will it help ? is it a know method ? any names for it ? other fomulas ?


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## Bignutes (Mar 4, 2020)

Potassium sources:

tomato paste for tea would be easy, but could also put it supersoil recipe. 1.18% k in it, easy to source and cheap.

Also corn cob meal, supposed to be 0-0-2.

Cattail 2-0.8-3.4


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## MICHI-CAN (Mar 4, 2020)

ANC said:


> I have in another thread explained how calcium is crucial to the immune system for plants when it comes to fending off fungus and mold.
> If you have root damage or a medium with an incorrect pH it may be hard to correct the issue, via the roots alone.
> What you can do is make a foliar tea in the following way. Hardboil a few eggs in their shells, you can take out the eggs to eat, but keep the water.
> use between. Top up the water with tap water until you have 1 liter of water to this add between 100 and 200ml of milk. It can be any dairy milk, fresh or expired.
> ...


My grandmothers "Purple Passion/ Wandering Jew" plant home fert recipe. LMAO. She had a giant bright purple cascade of vines.


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## Herbo313666 (May 18, 2020)

medical/420 said:


> my buddy uses his Dog SHIT on his vegible garden. and I piss/urinenate on my vegible garden. I knew a guy that would pick up road kill and thow it in a pile and let it compost and use it on his Weed plants


I heard from someone youre supposed to dilute urine as its high in nitrogen and could burn plants. Idk tho never peed on my stuff xD to each his own tho


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## outliergenetix (May 20, 2020)

don't hold me to it but when i get home from work tonight imma post a quick clip of my blatticompost bins. to save you from googling it blatticomposting is like vermicomposting except with roaches. specifically ivory head roaches. this also provides insect frass for chitin etc which other composting doesn't offer. i also traditionally compost and i also have worm bins. i keep my composting methods and inputs extremely diverse, i use all my kitchen scraps which i eat mainly whole foods and i also put all my plant material and stems and even wood ash or my weed ash in there lol. we runnin closed loop over here y'all...nothing goes to waste at my house


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