# The end of suffering



## New Age United (Feb 25, 2019)

I can show you the way out. If anyone needs a way out of suffering I can show you the way to Peace and Bliss. Only those who are ready to awaken will understand, I'm sorry that's just the way it is, you have to be truly tired of suffering, it needs to he matter of survival. If you do not want to discuss it on an open forum then feel free to send me a message.


----------



## Beachwalker (Feb 25, 2019)




----------



## New Age United (Feb 25, 2019)

Beachwalker said:


> View attachment 4289521


Lol, I'm a witch doctor hoping to conquer your souls with words, you have reason to be paranoid lol!!!!


----------



## doogledore (Mar 6, 2019)

New Age United said:


> Lol, I'm a witch doctor hoping to conquer your souls with words, you have reason to be paranoid lol!!!!


Where does the authority of your word come from? Why should I believe you instead of the friendly neighborhood vagrant spouting off missives about the universe?


----------



## New Age United (Mar 6, 2019)

doogledore said:


> Where does the authority of your word come from? Why should I believe you instead of the friendly neighborhood vagrant spouting off missives about the universe?


There is no authority, just words. It's not about adding concepts and beliefs to your thinking, it's not about changing your thinking at all, but rather stopping the mind in its tracks and allowing you to realize some simple things, allowing you to take a break from the constant stream of compulsive thinking, which is the root of all suffering, the situation is never the cause of suffering but rather your minds reaction to it causes suffering, I can show you how to break free of the constant action and reaction, also show you the unimportance of all things, allowing you to let go of the seriousness and heaviness of life allowing you freedom to enjoy the present as it is, not living in the past and future where pain and anxiety build up but in the here and now where you can realize the pristine and abundant nature of the universe as it exists in this moment.


----------



## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 7, 2019)

i like you, but this is a load of ....that^
enlightenment comes after much suffering and tribulation....you're saying you can remove all hope of a person ever achieving enlightenment.....NOTHING in life is free, and anything worth having involves a little suffering and tribulation...


----------



## New Age United (Mar 7, 2019)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> View attachment 4295834
> i like you, but this is a load of ....that^
> enlightenment comes after much suffering and tribulation....you're saying you can remove all hope of a person ever achieving enlightenment.....NOTHING in life is free, and anything worth having involves a little suffering and tribulation...


Enlightenment will forever be a future goal as long as you don't reach the point of a leap in evolution. Some time ago a fish probably got stranded in a tide pool, and so it's only choice was to evolve or die, so it learned to live on land, you are taking my words and telling me the exact opposite of what they plainly and simply mean. Once a person reaches the point where they have a choice to either evolve or die(caused by intense suffering, the current human condition) then there is a chance for Enlightenment, not as a goal to be attained in the future but something that ca be had right now.

True Enlightenment is a state of being in which the subject is completely and fully Present, rather than there awareness being stuck in the darkness of past and future, which are really just thoughts taking place right now, all that exists is now, there is no time. In this state of being you feel nothing but Peace, Bliss and Love which are not emotions, they are an intrinsic part of your being and emanate from a place much deeper that your quickly fleeting thoughts, they are eternal, just as the sun can be blotted out by the storm so to can the Light within you be covered up by the storm of thoughts and emotions.

I assure you, anything worth accomplishing should not bring you suffering, you should thoroughly enjoy everything you do, when you are Present a spiritual power flows through you and goes into everything you do, bc you are paying full attention to the here and now a much greater quality will be noticed in every action and everything you create, even your movements will become more graceful, that is what this is all about, humanities return to Grace. It is quickly becoming a matter of survival for the entire population, I do this out of the most selfless Love without fear of ridicule, I've been doing it for years, I have become a vehicle of consciousness, you cant fight the darkness, all you can do is shine the Light.

When Siddhartha was asked what is Enlightenment? All he replied was "the end of suffering".


----------



## Beachwalker (Mar 7, 2019)

You sound like you don't get out much?


----------



## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 7, 2019)

we don't get a choice to evolve or not....successful organisms do it, unsuccessful ones do not.
spiritually "successful" people have that epiphany, reach that plateau, learn to accept others for what they are, and themselves for what they are...personal spiritual enlightenment is earned...epiphanies don't come cheap, and they don't come when you call them. plateaus are reached by climbing the mountain they are a part of. Acceptance usually comes at the cost of a few humiliating and painful lessons....
enlightenment may be the end of suffering, but there's no way to avoid the suffering it takes to achieve it, first.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 7, 2019)

Beachwalker said:


> You sound like you don't get out much?


I'm schizophrenic I don't get out at all.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 7, 2019)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> we don't get a choice to evolve or not....successful organisms do it, unsuccessful ones do not.
> spiritually "successful" people have that epiphany, reach that plateau, learn to accept others for what they are, and themselves for what they are...personal spiritual enlightenment is earned...epiphanies don't come cheap, and they don't come when you call them. plateaus are reached by climbing the mountain they are a part of. Acceptance usually comes at the cost of a few humiliating and painful lessons....
> enlightenment may be the end of suffering, but there's no way to avoid the suffering it takes to achieve it, first.


Yes you make perfect sense here I agree 100%, nothing I am saying goes against that, except of course the choice to evolve or die, no you are right they either just evolve or they do not very good point.


----------



## doogledore (Mar 7, 2019)

The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer is a great starting point for seekers and much more coherent than lets say The Power of Now haha. The chapter "A Place Beyond Pain" fundamentally changed me (if there was no pain, would there also be no beauty?) Is what is beautiful to one person ugly to another? By what standard do we judge beauty, pain, anything....

As you can see, I jumped off the new age ship once I realized when everyone's feelings are valid, no one's feelings are valid and the whole belief system devolves into relativism. The search for absolute truth is much more intriguing, we all appeal to a law of how things "ought" to be. You're doing it right now reading this post and thinking he ought not be saying these things or he should be saying these things.

Ask, seek, knock. Good luck!


----------



## New Age United (Mar 7, 2019)

doogledore said:


> The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer is a great starting point for seekers and much more coherent than lets say The Power of Now haha. The chapter "A Place Beyond Pain" fundamentally changed me (if there was no pain, would there also be no beauty?) Is what is beautiful to one person ugly to another? By what standard do we judge beauty, pain, anything....
> 
> As you can see, I jumped off the new age ship once I realized when everyone's feelings are valid, no one's feelings are valid and the whole belief system devolves into relativism. The search for absolute truth is much more intriguing, we all appeal to a law of how things "ought" to be. You're doing it right now reading this post and thinking he ought not be saying these things or he should be saying these things.
> 
> Ask, seek, knock. Good luck!


That's very well spoken I wish you the best in your search, I hope one day you will have found Peace because let me tell you I've been through pain and Peace is far more beautiful imo. Interesting how you speak of the power of now, have you read a new earth, it saved my life.


----------



## doogledore (Mar 7, 2019)

Absolute truth teaser: Why is it "wrong" to steal? Why is it wrong to "cheat"? Why is it "wrong" to do anything perceived as "bad?"

If we searched the entire universe end to growing end could we find a moral absolute to pin our logic on that would be true no matter where we went in this big wide universe?


----------



## doogledore (Mar 7, 2019)

New Age United said:


> That's very well spoken I wish you the best in your search, I hope one day you will have found Peace because let me tell you I've been through pain and Peace is far more beautiful imo. Interesting how you speak of the power of now, have you read a new earth, it saved my life.


New Age United! You're missing it...your peace could be my hell. My hell could be your peace. Who is right?

edit: What does peace mean to you?


----------



## New Age United (Mar 7, 2019)

doogledore said:


> New Age United! You're missing it...your peace could be my hell. My hell could be your peace. Who is right?


Words are only worth so much, peace is peace, it's the same in you as it is in me, no need to search you already have it, look within.


----------



## doogledore (Mar 7, 2019)

If we already have peace within us, why are we suffering?

Edit: Why are you offering us a way out of suffering if peace "already exists" within us?


----------



## New Age United (Mar 7, 2019)

doogledore said:


> If we already have peace within us, why are we suffering?


The mnd is maya or dukka as the saying goes meaning the mind is suffering. Our thoughts and emotions have developed into a monster in many cases, of course not all people suffer as much as others, I know many people who have no need of my teaching bc they are already Enlightened, naturally so, but there are others who need my help and that is why I posted this thread. "You do not send a physician to those who are healthy "

Your thoughts affect your emotions and that emotional energy(anger, boredom, anxiety, sadness, fear, all forms of suffering) build a up in your body and thus affects your thinking and it becomes a vicious cycle, we are suffering bc there is a storm brewing inside us, before you can transcend suffering you first have to accept it, dont resist surrender, give up the fight.

Many people are constantly bothered by their own minds, they are literally addicted to their painful emotions, they do not actually want their suffering to end, which makes teaching this stuff to people very difficult, in fact it is impossible until they are truly fed up with suffering, again many people are already past it, some are born without heavy emotional pain-bodies.

Very good question if you want further explanation I will be around tonight.


----------



## doogledore (Mar 7, 2019)

Love the exchange New Age United but that wont be necessary.

Quoting Jesus eh? That's cool, why didn't you just come out and say you were on a mission from God?


----------



## New Age United (Mar 7, 2019)

And no I don't have all the answers for instance I have no idea how the suffering began I just know that it is there now


----------



## New Age United (Mar 7, 2019)

doogledore said:


> Love the exchange New Age United but that wont be necessary.
> 
> Quoting Jesus eh? That's cool, why didn't you just come out and say you were on a mission from God?


Bc too many people confuse religion with spirituality


----------



## doogledore (Mar 7, 2019)

Agreed, you've confused me which one you're advocating for.

Can you please enlighten me how New Age is different than a religion?


----------



## doogledore (Mar 7, 2019)

New Age United said:


> And no I don't have all the answers for instance I have no idea how the suffering began I just know that it is there now


If you don't have the answers for how the suffering began how in the world are you going to solve it? With words?

How do all these expert growers know how to assess whats wrong with your plants unless they know how you screwed them up? (Not you personally, just for the sake of argument)


----------



## Where’sthecurve (Mar 7, 2019)

doogledore said:


> Agreed, you've confused me which one you're advocating for.
> 
> Can you please enlighten me how New Age is different than a religion?


There is no difference. The new age has its teachers you must read and try to repeat The method they created to achieve enlightenment, Blavatsky, Manley p hall, Albert Pike among many. Problem is, the new age takes biblical wisdom and mixes it with occult ideas and mixes magical practices in to trick you into “feeling something” when you meditate. All the while leading your soul to hell, straight past Jesus of Nazareth, the only way of true salvation. I find it funny you even quote him and scripture with out giving credit to him of who he claimed to be. Oh well it’s an opinion thred an mine was put out there.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 7, 2019)

doogledore said:


> Agreed, you've confused me which one you're advocating for.
> 
> Can you please enlighten me how New Age is different than a religion?


New Age is not referring to the movement but the new age of Enlightenment where a good enough amount of people have returned to grace. I don't identify as new age when someone asks me if I'm religious. 

As for your second question, just bc we dont understand how the universe began or what exactly energy consists of does not mean we can't learn about them now, infact how the universe began is not really important at all.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 7, 2019)

Where’sthecurve said:


> There is no difference. The new age has its teachers you must read and try to repeat The method they created to achieve enlightenment, Blavatsky, Manley p hall, Albert Pike among many. Problem is, the new age takes biblical wisdom and mixes it with occult ideas and mixes magical practices in to trick you into “feeling something” when you meditate. All the while leading your soul to hell, straight past Jesus of Nazareth, the only way of true salvation. I find it funny you even quote him and scripture with out giving credit to him of who he claimed to be. Oh well it’s an opinion thred an mine was put out there.


Your opinions are welcome I need to practice these arguments. Jesus like Mohammed and Siddhartha were prophets who tried to teach Enlightenment, unfortunately their words were greatly misunderstood which led to all the dogma of religion, strictly my opinion of course. "You have to learn not to cherish opinions , even your own" Tolle


----------



## doogledore (Mar 7, 2019)

Where’sthecurve said:


> There is no difference. The new age has its teachers you must read and try to repeat The method they created to achieve enlightenment, Blavatsky, Manley p hall, Albert Pike among many. Problem is, the new age takes biblical wisdom and mixes it with occult ideas and mixes magical practices in to trick you into “feeling something” when you meditate. All the while leading your soul to hell, straight past Jesus of Nazareth, the only way of true salvation. I find it funny you even quote him and scripture with out giving credit to him of who he claimed to be. Oh well it’s an opinion thred an mine was put out there.


Your attitude towards meditation tells me you've never actually pursued a practice of meditation or are aware of the proven medical benefits. How are you any different than those who bash the bible but have never actually read it? Check yourself, youre the reason for Christian stereotypes.


----------



## Bugeye (Mar 7, 2019)

New Age United said:


> The mnd is maya or dukka as the saying goes meaning the mind is suffering. Our thoughts and emotions have developed into a monster in many cases, of course not all people suffer as much as others, I know many people who have no need of my teaching bc they are already Enlightened, naturally so, but there are others who need my help and that is why I posted this thread. "You do not send a physician to those who are healthy "
> 
> Your thoughts affect your emotions and that emotional energy(anger, boredom, anxiety, sadness, fear, all forms of suffering) build a up in your body and thus affects your thinking and it becomes a vicious cycle, we are suffering bc there is a storm brewing inside us, before you can transcend suffering you first have to accept it, dont resist surrender, give up the fight.
> 
> ...


I'm fascinated by the mind-body connection and the role consciousness plays in our human experiences. Just read a book by Dr. Joe Dispenza that spoke to the emotional addictions that get hardwired into our bodies and control our minds, making it hard to change. Keep up the good work, love your thread!


----------



## New Age United (Mar 7, 2019)

doogledore said:


> Your attitude towards meditation tells me you've never actually pursued a practice of meditation or are aware of the proven medical benefits. How are you any different than those who bash the bible but have never actually read it? Check yourself, youre the reason for Christian stereotypes.


I've read exodus and all four gospels, as well as the first eight chapters of the Quran, I still haven't delved into far east texts. There is indeed much wisdom in the words of these men and I have learned greatly from them, but much of the bible is not the words of jesus but of unenlightened men trying there best to interpret it, or worse trying their best to control you. Of course this all just my opinion. No I've never really gotten into meditation but I am aware that it helps many people so I certainly wouldn't degress. I do practice inner-body awareness which could be considered a form 9f meditation.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 7, 2019)

Bugeye said:


> I'm fascinated by the mind-body connection and the role consciousness plays in our human experiences. Just read a book by Dr. Joe Dispenza that spoke to the emotional addictions that get hardwired into our bodies and control our minds, making it hard to change. Keep up the good work, love your thread!


Thank you Bugeye


----------



## Beachwalker (Mar 7, 2019)

doogledore said:


> Your attitude towards meditation tells me you've never actually pursued a practice of meditation or are aware of the proven medical benefits. How are you any different than those who bash the bible but have never actually read it? Check yourself, youre the reason for Christian stereotypes.


Unless I missed it he hasn't said he's a Christian


----------



## Bugeye (Mar 7, 2019)

doogledore said:


> Your attitude towards meditation tells me you've never actually pursued a practice of meditation or are aware of the proven medical benefits. How are you any different than those who bash the bible but have never actually read it? Check yourself, youre the reason for Christian stereotypes.


I just started daily meditation around Thanksgiving and find it very beneficial to having a calmer thought process that stays with me throughout the day. I certainly feel like my stress level is greatly reduced which I expect to benefit my health longer term. I'm at the point now where I can pretty easily shift my thoughts into alpha or theta state and actually be present with zero internal dialogue for short periods, maybe 10 seconds at a time. So I expect I have much more to learn but does seem to get easier the more you do. Some day I'd like to have the third eye experience but not yet. What has your experience with meditation been like?

I am with New Age in seeing Jesus as a master teacher that was probably highly tuned to communicating with source energy, or whatever you want to call it. I also think his words have been changed by man so I don't take the bible as gospel, pun intended. Anyway, I think there is a lot of truth spread across many different religions, but ultimately you have to go inward to really find spirituality.


----------



## Bugeye (Mar 7, 2019)

New Age United said:


> I've read exodus and all four gospels, as well as the first eight chapters of the Quran, I still haven't delved into far east texts. There is indeed much wisdom in the words of these men and I have learned greatly from them, but much of the bible is not the words of jesus but of unenlightened men trying there best to interpret it, or worse trying their best to control you. Of course this all just my opinion. No I've never really gotten into meditation but I am aware that it helps many people so I certainly wouldn't degress. I do practice inner-body awareness which could be considered a form 9f meditation.


What is a form 9f meditation? Is that like a focus on each chakra or energy center?


----------



## New Age United (Mar 7, 2019)

Bugeye said:


> What is a form 9f meditation? Is that like a focus on each chakra or energy center?


No I dont know enough about chakras to speak about them. I do however have great confidence in the flow of chi and can feel this flow within, following your breath in and out of the abdomen is a good way to start, feel the breath from within, then try to focus on your hands, is there life within them, your feet, your legs your arms, now try to feel the body as a whole, you will find that the more you quiet the mind the more energy you can feel within, the longer you can hold this focus the more alive your body feels. You may feel pangs at the meridians of your body, this is good it means your pain-body is burning up, what Jesus refers to as birth pangs, "and your body will be filled with light ". If you practice this every night when your laying in bed eventually you will become aware of the inner body during your regular daily activities, this is what I believe Jesus was saying when he talks about the man who drilled down to the rock and his house was not swept away by the floods, meaning if you can keep some of your attention firmly rooted in the body your thoughts and emotions will be powerless against you.

Another interesting thing is something I learned from Qigong, it's called a body scan, you imagine a flat plat of light moving through your body, you try to feel this scan of light as it goes from the top of your head to the bottom of your feet, it is supposed to dissolve negative and impure energy. You can actually feel the release of dopamine in your brain as you scan your head it feels really good.


----------



## doogledore (Mar 7, 2019)

My experience with meditation: breathe in. breathe out. repeat.

Striving for anything beyond this is missing the point.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 7, 2019)

Lol @Bugeye I just got what you're saying no it's a typo I meant form of meditation. Too funny


----------



## New Age United (Mar 7, 2019)

doogledore said:


> Your attitude towards meditation tells me you've never actually pursued a practice of meditation or are aware of the proven medical benefits. How are you any different than those who bash the bible but have never actually read it? Check yourself, youre the reason for Christian stereotypes.


Oh sorry doogledore I just realized you weren't addressing me my bad


----------



## Where’sthecurve (Mar 9, 2019)

New Age United said:


> I've read exodus and all four gospels, as well as the first eight chapters of the Quran, I still haven't delved into far east texts. There is indeed much wisdom in the words of these men and I have learned greatly from them, but much of the bible is not the words of jesus but of unenlightened men trying there best to interpret it, or worse trying their best to control you. Of course this all just my opinion. No I've never really gotten into meditation but I am aware that it helps many people so I certainly wouldn't degress. I do practice inner-body awareness which could be considered a form 9f meditation.


Ok so Jesus and Mohamed are not “the same”.(and in some opinions Mohamed and Islam are a creation of the Jews as a way of controlling the arabs, I know sounds crazy but if you read the book of Esther, it is about a Jewish girl sent to wed the Persian king as a way of the Jews controlling the kingdom from behind the scenes.) Mohamed killed people, had many wives, one of which he took at age 9, wrote hadiths that command to kill all who don’t subject themselves to allah and Islam. He may have been a man striving like many of us to find the creator and meaning of life, live a good life in respect of God creating us, but he was not the prophetical “ son of man” spoken of in ancient texts as Jesus ( I realize that’s not his Hebrew name and a Roman name but that’s another subject) claimed and proved to be. I have read the whole bible many times and still do, read many other ancient writings too, Sumerian , Egyptian, Greek, I have a copy of the book of Enoch, all 3 versions. I have read about all kinds of other faiths too. I don’t attend a mainstream corrupted church because I would be considered a heretic for reading other “books”not in the official Roman/Protestant canons or agreeing with them on how to interpret the bible. I will be the first to tell you the devil runs all the major religions in this world from their various temples churches mosques. Jesus came to smash that system of control by telling us all that the kingdom of God is within, and your ability to communicate with the most high is through prayer. Not in a confession box or church pew through some priest who probably has more sin to confess than the confessor. And he warned about communicating with any other spirit than the Holy Spirit because they always lie. So yoga,and third eye new age, Kabbalah,kundalini, shamanism, is all the same because it invokes many spirits, and IMO that’s playing with fire. The thing about following Christ that’s different from following Mohamed is that I don’t force anyone with a sword to believe my faith. I just tell people about Jesus and it’s up to God and them if the seed grows. The way for us to live is called the wheat and Tares parables from the gospels, check it out it good. Peace.


----------



## Where’sthecurve (Mar 9, 2019)

New Age United said:


> No I dont know enough about chakras to speak about them. I do however have great confidence in the flow of chi and can feel this flow within, following your breath in and out of the abdomen is a good way to start, feel the breath from within, then try to focus on your hands, is there life within them, your feet, your legs your arms, now try to feel the body as a whole, you will find that the more you quiet the mind the more energy you can feel within, the longer you can hold this focus the more alive your body feels. You may feel pangs at the meridians of your body, this is good it means your pain-body is burning up, what Jesus refers to as birth pangs, "and your body will be filled with light ". If you practice this every night when your laying in bed eventually you will become aware of the inner body during your regular daily activities, this is what I believe Jesus was saying when he talks about the man who drilled down to the rock and his house was not swept away by the floods, meaning if you can keep some of your attention firmly rooted in the body your thoughts and emotions will be powerless against you.
> 
> Another interesting thing is something I learned from Qigong, it's called a body scan, you imagine a flat plat of light moving through your body, you try to feel this scan of light as it goes from the top of your head to the bottom of your feet, it is supposed to dissolve negative and impure energy. You can actually feel the release of dopamine in your brain as you scan your head it feels really good.


Wow what Jesus says about birth pangs? Really? How bout you re-read what the bible says that Jesus says about birth pangs. Has nothing to do with meditation, it’s a discription of what the earth is going to feel before his second coming, that’s the context my friend. So after reading through your discription of what and how your practicing this I see it’s jewish/catholic mysticism mixed with a little bit of eastern wisdom, quite a hodge podge , but that’s what new age is. This is exactly what Ignatius Loyola (founder of the jesuits/society of Jesus) taught to all the jesuits monks on how to be illuminated. Only part you left out was the calling upon angels and spirits as guides in the transcendental realm. Maybe you haven’t got that far yet.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 9, 2019)

Where’sthecurve said:


> Ok so Jesus and Mohamed are not “the same”.(and in some opinions Mohamed and Islam are a creation of the Jews as a way of controlling the arabs, I know sounds crazy but if you read the book of Esther, it is about a Jewish girl sent to wed the Persian king as a way of the Jews controlling the kingdom from behind the scenes.) Mohamed killed people, had many wives, one of which he took at age 9, wrote hadiths that command to kill all who don’t subject themselves to allah and Islam. He may have been a man striving like many of us to find the creator and meaning of life, live a good life in respect of God creating us, but he was not the prophetical “ son of man” spoken of in ancient texts as Jesus ( I realize that’s not his Hebrew name and a Roman name but that’s another subject) claimed and proved to be. I have read the whole bible many times and still do, read many other ancient writings too, Sumerian , Egyptian, Greek, I have a copy of the book of Enoch, all 3 versions. I have read about all kinds of other faiths too. I don’t attend a mainstream corrupted church because I would be considered a heretic for reading other “books”not in the official Roman/Protestant canons or agreeing with them on how to interpret the bible. I will be the first to tell you the devil runs all the major religions in this world from their various temples churches mosques. Jesus came to smash that system of control by telling us all that the kingdom of God is within, and your ability to communicate with the most high is through prayer. Not in a confession box or church pew through some priest who probably has more sin to confess than the confessor. And he warned about communicating with any other spirit than the Holy Spirit because they always lie. So yoga,and third eye new age, Kabbalah,kundalini, shamanism, is all the same because it invokes many spirits, and IMO that’s playing with fire. The thing about following Christ that’s different from following Mohamed is that I don’t force anyone with a sword to believe my faith. I just tell people about Jesus and it’s up to God and them if the seed grows. The way for us to live is called the wheat and Tares parables from the gospels, check it out it good. Peace.


Very well said and I agree with everything you're saying except I believe the girl was 12 at least that's what I've read. Yes Muhammad was a warrior, what you have to realize is there's no such thing as good and evil, from the beginning of the Torah says that man and woman were cast out of Paradise when they began to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Muhammad also bought and freed many slaves, how do we know that the girl was not a slave and that the owner wouldn't sell her so the only way he could free her was to marry her, just saying it is a possibility.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 9, 2019)

Where’sthecurve said:


> Wow what Jesus says about birth pangs? Really? How bout you re-read what the bible says that Jesus says about birth pangs. Has nothing to do with meditation, it’s a discription of what the earth is going to feel before his second coming, that’s the context my friend. So after reading through your discription of what and how your practicing this I see it’s jewish/catholic mysticism mixed with a little bit of eastern wisdom, quite a hodge podge , but that’s what new age is. This is exactly what Ignatius Loyola (founder of the jesuits/society of Jesus) taught to all the jesuits monks on how to be illuminated. Only part you left out was the calling upon angels and spirits as guides in the transcendental realm. Maybe you haven’t got that far yet.


No need to be so serious, there is nothing the matter here, everything is alright, it will be ok, pain is fleeting and death is nothing to be afraid of, it is very peaceful, like sleep, even the survival of humanity itself is not important, so exactly how important is this conversation??? Yes he also speaks about the pangs you will feel before the second coming, the Christ is within you, the Arch Angel, it is not I but the father in me who does the works, you are the Light, Awareness, the eternal flame, you are the burning bush that is not consumed, you are actually immortal, satan has you all trapped in the illusion of mortality, the illusion of time (past and future) but if you can hold an focus on Eternity(the Present moment) for just a little while you will come back to Paradise(the Earth, the Garden of Eden, Gaia).

The birth pangs before the second coming are the pangs you literally feel before you reach Enlightenment, both physically and mentally.

"It may come to the sinner before it comes to the saint"
The Kingdom of Heaven is not coming with signs to be adored, for behold the kingdom is in the midst of you"
"You will recieve the kingdom like a child or you will not recieve it at all"

Life is not nearly as serious as our minds make it out to be, stop thinking, rejoice,repent, come and dine with me in Paradise.


----------



## Where’sthecurve (Mar 9, 2019)

New Age United said:


> Very well said and I agree with everything you're saying except I believe the girl was 12 at least that's what I've read. Yes Muhammad was a warrior, what you have to realize is there's no such thing as good and evil, from the beginning of the Torah says that man and woman were cast out of Paradise when they began to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Muhammad also bought and freed many slaves, how do we know that the girl was not a slave and that the owner wouldn't sell her so the only way he could free her was to marry her, just saying it is a possibility.


So no , you are wrong. All respected scholars say she was 6 years old when he married her and 9 years old when he took her “into” his house. That means sexually involved at 9. Regardless I’ll give you the 12 years. It’s still hideous a grown man in any culture with a girl of that age. I don’t buy the idea that he could have bought her as a slave because he was such an honourable man he had to marry the child to rescue her from someone who did not want to let her go. Think about that what parent of said child would not want their daughter to marry royalty? People used to give their children away so they could have a better life.


----------



## Where’sthecurve (Mar 9, 2019)

New Age United said:


> Yes Muhammad was a warrior, what you have to realize is there's no such thing as good and evil, from the beginning of the Torah says that man and woman were cast out of Paradise when they began to eat from the tree of the knowledge of-good and evil.


No such thing as good and evil? Wtf? And you try to use Torah to defend that ridiculous theological statement. THE WHOLE BIBLE IS ABOUT GOOD VS EVIL from front to back man. You really should read it before making any conclusions of your own or reapeting someone else’s wrong interpretations about what it says. What does Mohamed being a warrior have to do with the fall and good and evil not existing. My point is Mohamed was just a man. Christ was not, and if you read the bible you would see that.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 9, 2019)

Where’sthecurve said:


> No such thing as good and evil? Wtf? And you try to use Torah to defend that ridiculous theological statement. THE WHOLE BIBLE IS ABOUT GOOD VS EVIL from front to back man. You really should read it before making any conclusions of your own or reapeting someone else’s wrong interpretations about what it says. What does Mohamed being a warrior have to do with the fall and good and evil not existing. My point is Mohamed was just a man. Christ was not, and if you read the bible you would see that.


Christ was a man, you have fallen for the words of fools, not the words of the prophet Jesus, next time you read the new testament pay only attention to the words of Jesus himself. Good and evil have a relative existence just as things are relatively important, meaning relative to the human experience but they exist only in the mind, like I said the situation is never the cause of suffering but your minds reaction to it causes suffering. You have to break free from your own mind.


----------



## Where’sthecurve (Mar 9, 2019)

New Age United said:


> No need to be so serious, so exactly how important is this conversation??? Yes he also speaks about the pangs you will feel before the second coming, the Christ is within you, the Arch Angel, it is not I but the father in me who does the works, you are the Light, Awareness, the eternal flame, you are the burning bush that is not consumed, you are actually immortal,


 the Christ is not within you! where did you get that from... I know, new age none sense that you say your not a part of. Didn’t get it from anything Jesus said because He said you must repent and be born again BEFORE you receive the spirit. And you are still carrying you Jehovah witness baggage around with ya say crap like Jesus the arch angel. Like I said before if you read the actual bible You would know that the book of Hebrews says specifically that Christ is NOT an angel, and that the angels are to minister to Him. Common now. When quoting stuff Jesus said it is serious man.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 9, 2019)

Where’sthecurve said:


> the Christ is not within you! where did you get that from... I know, new age none sense that you say your not a part of. Didn’t get it from anything Jesus said because He said you must repent and be born again BEFORE you receive the spirit. And you are still carrying you Jehovah witness baggage around with ya say crap like Jesus the arch angel. Like I said before if you read the actual bible You would know that the book of Hebrews says specifically that Christ is NOT an angel, and that the angels are to minister to Him. Common now. When quoting stuff Jesus said it is serious man.


No there is nothing serious about what Jesus said or what I am saying, the seriousness is in you alone.


----------



## Where’sthecurve (Mar 9, 2019)

New Age United said:


> Christ was a man, you have fallen for the words of fools, not the words of the prophet Jesus, next time you read the new testament pay only attention to the words of Jesus himself. Good and evil have a relative existence just as things are relatively important, meaning relative to the human experience but they exist only in the mind, like I said the situation is never the cause of suffering but your minds reaction to it causes suffering. You have to break free from your own mind.


 you don’t need to tell me how to read the bible. We have 7 in this house. calling mark Mathew luke John apostle Paul fools? Wow, not even gonna touch that. Your fucked up idea about good and evil being some problem/reaction I created in my mind that I need to just overlook is nuts. tell that to the next person about to have their head sawed of by some muslim isis nutter. If you want to be spiritual about stuff then do so and I hope your walk brings you to the one and only creator. But be very careful when you use Jesus and say he said something he didn’t say or mean. I won’t judge you , we are all going to be soon.


----------



## Where’sthecurve (Mar 9, 2019)

New Age United said:


> No there is nothing serious about what Jesus said or what I am saying, the seriousness is in you alone.


Ok you proved my point you shouldn’t be coaching anyone on biblical wisdom. Your good at the “did God really say” analogies but the serpent did the same thing, and because eve didn’t know God’s word she was deceived. Like many today being deceived because they read every other thing out there except the bible.


----------



## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 10, 2019)

the bible is a collection of previous cultures mythology, mashed together to help priests control their parishioners...if it was EVER divinely inspired, men ruined it at the several "councils" they held to edit it to fit their purposes, removing whole books, and editing text that didn't agree with their current policies. the current bible is a far cry from the bible of 2000 years ago...and the bible 2000 years ago was still a tool that a minority used to control a larger populace.
be a good person because that's the right thing to do...not because you win the grand prize jackpot and get to meet Bozo AND Cookie if you do...treat other people well, because that's the way you would like to be treated, not because of some ephemeral reward for being good....the bible is a training tool for dogs...be good and get a treat...
real personal growth comes from doing the right thing, because its the right thing...not from being good at receiving Scooby snacks


----------



## justugh (Mar 16, 2019)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> the bible is a collection of previous cultures mythology, mashed together to help priests control their parishioners...if it was EVER divinely inspired, men ruined it at the several "councils" they held to edit it to fit their purposes, removing whole books, and editing text that didn't agree with their current policies. the current bible is a far cry from the bible of 2000 years ago...and the bible 2000 years ago was still a tool that a minority used to control a larger populace.
> be a good person because that's the right thing to do...not because you win the grand prize jackpot and get to meet Bozo AND Cookie if you do...treat other people well, because that's the way you would like to be treated, not because of some ephemeral reward for being good....the bible is a training tool for dogs...be good and get a treat...
> real personal growth comes from doing the right thing, because its the right thing...not from being good at receiving Scooby snacks


rule one in life (simplest form to most complex)
adapt or die 

pretty good .....the simple fact is the Church is the worst criminal in all of history ...and until the general mass of humans figure this out it is all moot as we are doomed to repeat a cycle (at some point a religion crazy is going to crush the planet under the name of their god ......funny thing all 3 gods of the 3 major ones is the same damn god but no one ever builds on that ) or the newest front runner antibiotic resistant bacteria strain of something ( look at rule one ) 


but that is not why i started this it .......i offer the idea the good deed it self is the cookie......going with quantum entanglement and chaos theory.....( ex a homeless on street 3 days from death) the good deed a simple ride to a local heating shelter that was to far to walk ...result the person lives due to the simple hey buddy need a lift ......now from there u have entangled yourself to that person life and with the unseen results homeless person made person late to vote resulting in a pass or failure ......going on and on and on


----------



## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 17, 2019)

justugh said:


> rule one in life (simplest form to most complex)
> adapt or die
> 
> pretty good .....the simple fact is the Church is the worst criminal in all of history ...and until the general mass of humans figure this out it is all moot as we are doomed to repeat a cycle (at some point a religion crazy is going to crush the planet under the name of their god ......funny thing all 3 gods of the 3 major ones is the same damn god but no one ever builds on that ) or the newest front runner antibiotic resistant bacteria strain of something ( look at rule one )
> ...


"life" is an endless web, and each one of us are at an intersection...effected by and effecting everyone


----------



## justugh (Mar 17, 2019)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> "life" is an endless web, and each one of us are at an intersection...effected by and effecting everyone


then that means there is no truly unselfish act and free will is just something ppl say to themself as they are moved by the unseen/thought of forces


----------



## New Age United (Mar 17, 2019)

justugh said:


> then that means there is no truly unselfish act and free will is just something ppl say to themself as they are moved by the unseen/thought of forces


No, it just means that we are all connected, you can still have a positive impact on people caused by unselfish acts, such as a parent has to their child. I don't however believe in free will.


----------



## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 17, 2019)

justugh said:


> then that means there is no truly unselfish act and free will is just something ppl say to themself as they are moved by the unseen/thought of forces


not at all...there is a resonance between all things, waves emanate from one point and lap against a million shores...but that doesn't mean that i'm not the one deciding to make a few of those waves, and i decide whether or not to pay any attention to the ones lapping on my shores...as far as unselfish acts, only you can decide that, in the dark of the night, with nothing but your own breathing and the sound of your blood flowing in the ear against the pillow to distract you from your own thoughts...I can sleep, most nights.


----------



## Beachwalker (Mar 17, 2019)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> the bible is a collection of previous cultures mythology, mashed together to help priests control their parishioners...if it was EVER divinely inspired, men ruined it at the several "councils" they held to edit it to fit their purposes, removing whole books, and editing text that didn't agree with their current policies. the current bible is a far cry from the bible of 2000 years ago...and the bible 2000 years ago was still a tool that a minority used to control a larger populace.
> be a good person because that's the right thing to do...not because you win the grand prize jackpot and get to meet Bozo AND Cookie if you do...treat other people well, because that's the way you would like to be treated, not because of some ephemeral reward for being good....the bible is a training tool for dogs...be good and get a treat...
> real personal growth comes from doing the right thing, because its the right thing...not from being good at receiving Scooby snacks


This is a common fallacy, and there's a defined reason certain people, other than uninformed parrots, want want you to believe this; but rather than citing examples that I'm already aware of, perhaps look into it more deeply yourself and see why I say that ..or not (that pesky "Free Will" thing). btw, I agree to a very large extent with op regarding the comment that Free Will does not exist, at least not as we commonly believe it does


----------



## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 18, 2019)

Beachwalker said:


> This is a common fallacy, and there's a defined reason certain people, other than uninformed parrots, want want you to believe this; but rather than citing examples that I'm already aware of, perhaps look into it more deeply yourself and see why I say that ..or not (that pesky "Free Will" thing). btw, I agree to a very large extent with op regarding the comment that Free Will does not exist, at least not as we commonly believe it does


i think that is all that exists, there is no predestination...God, if they exist, does not decide out course for us, we make our own decisions, and are responsible for the consequences, ourselves


----------



## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 18, 2019)

Beachwalker said:


> This is a common fallacy, and there's a defined reason certain people, other than uninformed parrots, want want you to believe this; but rather than citing examples that I'm already aware of, perhaps look into it more deeply yourself and see why I say that ..or not (that pesky "Free Will" thing). btw, I agree to a very large extent with op regarding the comment that Free Will does not exist, at least not as we commonly believe it does


there are several statements there...which one are you referring to as a common fallacy?


----------



## Beachwalker (Mar 18, 2019)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> there are several statements there...which one are you referring to as a common fallacy?


"the bible is a collection of previous cultures mythology"


----------



## Beachwalker (Mar 18, 2019)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> there are several statements there...which one are you referring to as a common fallacy?


Thank you for your interest. Let's take the so-called Noah's flood for example: Almost all ancient civilizations tell of a worldwide catastrophic flood

Now, remember the school kid game of telephone? the short of it is that this one common worldwide event, in this example the flood mythology, while common to almost all ancient civilizations, varies mainly because of cultural perspective

but that doesn't change the fact that all cultures are speaking of *the same event,*

However Creator God, through the prophets went on to expound and clarify the event in the so-called judeo Christian Bible

whereas other ancient civilizations may only have their handed down (and in many cases only verbally), ancient myth regarding this same worldwide flood event, hence the discrepancies

.. in a way it's kind of like the revisionist history that we commonly see now, only draw out over millennium

Edit: here's a quick example..


----------



## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 18, 2019)

Beachwalker said:


> "the bible is a collection of previous cultures mythology"


do i need to go to the trouble of providing links that firmly place 90 percent of the events described in the bible in the religious texts of previous religions?...i have to do laundry today? but i'll do it when i have a chance...you won't believe me till i show you....the bible is pieces of other religions texts and stories, mashed together to fit the needs of the "clergy" at the time...

In the Persian scriptures of the Zoroastrians, the Avesta tells the story of how Ormuzd created the world and the first two humans in six days and then rested on the seventh. The names of these two human beings were Adama and Evah. These texts date back as far as the 10th century B.C.

There is also a lot of evidence that the Epic of Gilgamesh, one of the oldest recorded texts in human history, had an influence on the biblical creation story. The Epic of Gilgamesh tells the story of a man, Enkidu, who was created from the earth by a god. He lives amongst the animals in a natural paradise until he is tempted by a woman, Shamhat. He accepts food from this woman and is forced to leave the place where he lives after becoming aware of his own nakedness. Later in the epic, he encounters a snake which steals a plant of immortality from him.


A man is warned of an imminent flood by a god and is instructed to build a large boat in order to survive. The dimensions of the boat are 120 cubits; the building materials are wood, pitch, and reeds; and there are six decks. After the flood, the boat lands on a mountaintop where the man sends out a series of birds to find dry land. He eventually lets all the people and animals free and sacrifices to the god that saved him.
Now although these details sound like they were taken directly from the book of Genesis, you’d find the same information in the story of Utnapishtim, found in the Epic of Gilgamesh.

There are a large number of striking similarities between the book of Proverbs in the bible and the Egyptian Instruction of Amenemope. Though all surviving texts of the Instruction of Amenemope are of a later date, the works are thought to have been composed during the 12th dynasty. There has been much debate on this topic, but modern scholars agree that there is enough compelling evidence to support the originality of the Instruction of Amenemope. Here are a few examples of the parallel verses:
*Proverbs 22:17-18:* “Incline thy ear, and hear the words of the wise: and apply thy heart to my doctrine. Which shall be beautiful for thee, if thou keep it in thy bowels, and it shall flow in thy lips.”
*Amenemope ch1:* “Give thine ear, and hear what I say, And apply thine heart to apprehend; It is good for thee to place them in thine heart, let them rest in the casket of thy belly; That they may act as a peg upon thy tongue.”
*Proverbs 22:22:* “Do no violence to the poor, because he is poor: and do not oppress the needy in the gate.”
*Amenemope ch1:* “Beware of robbing the poor, and oppressing the afflicted.”*
Proverbs 23:1:* “When thou shalt sit to eat with a prince, consider diligently what is set before thy face.”
*Amenemope ch23:* “Eat not bread in the presence of a ruler, And lunge not forward with thy mouth before a governor. When thou art replenished with that to which thou has no right, It is only a delight to thy spittle. Look upon the dish that is before thee, And let that (alone) supply thy need.

In the Bible, the Ten Commandments were given to Moses on Mount Sinai, and were written on stone tablets, allegedly by the hand of God himself. This was thought to take place around 1490 B.C. However when one examines chapter 125 of the Egyptian Book of the Dead (around 2600 B.C.), it seems he may have had a little help. The Egyptian Book of the Dead reads like the Ten Commandments written in the Negative Confession. Some examples are:
*Book of the Dead:* “I have not blasphemed.”
*Exodus 20:7:* “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that shall take the name of the Lord his God in vain.”*
Book of the Dead:* “I have not committed adultery, I have not lain with men.”
*Exodus 20:14:* “Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
*Book of the Dead:* “I have not stolen.”
*Exodus 20:15:* “Thou shalt not steal.”
There is also some similarity between the story of the Ten Commandments and the Code of Hammurabi, dated around 1772 B.C.

The origin of the Israelite nation is a little vague since the biblical accounts don’t always agree with archaeological evidence. According to the Bible, the Canaanites were a tribe of people who descended from Ham (the son of Noah). They were thought to be a cursed nation that the Israelites destroyed. However, conquests are never that simple, and it is widely accepted that the Canaanite religion had numerous influences on Judaism. Psalms 29 is a hymn that bears so much similarity to Ulgaritic (the language of the Canaanites) poetry that some believe that it was originally an hymn to Baal. Today scholars agree that the Israelites emerged from a Canaanite civilization in the early part of the second millennium B.C.

There is an interesting correlation between the Gathas of Zarathushtra Yasna (the sacred texts of the Zoroastrians) and the chapter of creation and book of Isaiah in the Old Testament. This can be largely attributed to the influence that the Mesopotamians held over the Israelites during the time the Israelites were living in Babylon. Strangely, the book of Yasna asks questions which are answered directly in the book of Isaiah. There are countless other examples of influences from Zoroastrianism, but this one is very compelling. Some examples of these similarities texts are:
*Yasna 44.3 :4-5:* “who made the routes of the sun and stars? By whom the moon waxes and wanes?”
*Isaiah 40:26:* “Lift up your eyes on high, and see who hath created these things: who bringeth out their host by number, and calleth them all by their names: by the greatness of his might, and strength, and power, not one of them was missing.”
*Yasna 44.4:1-3:* “who fixed the earth below and kept the sky above from falling?”
*Isaiah 40:12:* “Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and weighed the heavens with his palm? Who hath poised with three fingers the bulk of the earth, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?”

According to scholars, the Zoroastrians were the first to believe in angels, the idea of Satan, and the ongoing battle between the forces of good and evil. Interestingly, Zoroastrian art portrays the prophet Zarathustra as being surrounded by the same halo of light in which Christian figures are often depicted

The prophet Daniel was the first biblical figure to refer to ideas of resurrection and judgement in Daniel 12:2, and this can be easily attributed to Babylonian influence. The word “paradise” comes directly from the Persian religion of Mithraism. The word “Hell” seems to derive from the Norse word Hel, most certainly a pre-Christian concept. There are countless examples of Hell-like afterlives portrayed in pagan mythology.
In the New Testament, there are four different words used to describe Hell, all of which have been translated into English as “Hell”. They are “Sheol”, which means “place of the dead”; “Hades,” the Greek god of the underworld, “Gehenna,” a kind of garbage dump; and “Tartaro,” which means “to cast” or “throw”.

there are some remarkable parallels between the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Buddha, Mithras, and Zarathustra.*
Jesus:* “And as you would that men should do to you, do you also to them in like manner.” (Luke 6:31)
*Buddha:* “Consider others as yourself.” (Dhammapada 10:1)
*Jesus:* “And to him that striketh thee on the one cheek, offer also the other. And him that taketh away from thee thy cloak, forbid not to take thy coat also.” (Luke 6:29)
*Buddha:* “If anyone should give you a blow with his hand, with a stick, or with a knife, you should abandon any desires and utter no evil words.” (Majjhima Nikaya 21:6)

this link goes into great detail...if you have the desire to learn the truth...
https://archive.org/stream/biblemythsandthe00doanuoft/biblemythsandthe00doanuoft_djvu.txt


----------



## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 18, 2019)

Beachwalker said:


> Thank you for your interest. Let's take the so-called Noah's flood for example: all ancient cultures tell of a worldwide catastrophic flood
> 
> Now, remember the school kid game of telephone? the short of it is that this one common worldwide event, in this example the flood mythology, while common to almost all ancient civilizations, varies because of mainly perspective
> 
> ...


you see that as proof that it happened exactly like it says in the bible...i look at it as proof that it happened, and that moses or w/e took the story and used it for their new religion...and there has never been a world wide flood...ever in the history of the earth...not since the continents arose. a bad regional flood, in areas that are arid most of the time, will produce a lot of memories in the residents of the area...but that does not make it a global event...and there is NO archeological proof of it ever happening, ever....ever....so there was a bad flood in the middle east before the birth of christianity, and the christians along with zoroastrians and many other regional religions, incorporated the event into their mythos....HOW does that prove anything?


----------



## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 18, 2019)

Beachwalker said:


> in a way it's kind of like the revisionist history that we commonly see now, only draw out over millennium


it certainly is....


----------



## old buzzard (Mar 18, 2019)

Where’sthecurve said:


> Ok you proved my point you shouldn’t be coaching anyone on biblical wisdom. Your good at the “did God really say” analogies but the serpent did the same thing, and because eve didn’t know God’s word she was deceived. Like many today being deceived because they read every other thing out there except the bible.


Satan got Eve to doubt God then deceived her with a half truth.(has God indeed said,You shall not eat the fruit of the trees) That of course was the truth he did say that,But he also said of that one tree they were not to eat.That they could eat any other fruit they wanted.Then after he got them to doubt God.He told them if they ate the fruit they could be like God.Every since then man tries to be a God.Thus the birth of the New Age cult.it is not new at all but been around a long time.just keeps getting wrapped in new paper and resold.The bible is a collection of 66 books written over a about a 1600 year period,and actually proves some science accurate.Thousands of years ago the holy spirit told Isaiah the earth was a circle 40:22 man rejected that only later to find he knew that waaaaay back then.How could he?It has recorded cities, history has said did not exist only when man went digging to prove they were not there did they find them.To dismiss everything in scripture and call it a myth is only a denial of Gods supremacy and authority over us.God gave us a free will that's what gets us in trouble.But he wanted us to choose to love him and live for him,not because he made us to.Just like my own children I want them to have a relationship with me because they want to and they see I love them.He tells us if we search for him we will find him.See if we deny him we will not.even that is our choice.That makes us responsible for our own decision.but even in the garden,Adam blamed Eve( it was that woman you gave me.)he also blamed God.I have even done that before. and Eve blamed the Serpent.But God came to Adam and Eve,they were responsible for their actions.I'm not telling any one to believe like me.but if any here reading this post want to search.Perhaps get the books written by an Atheist investigative journalist,Lee Strobel.The books are called a case for Christ, a case for creation,a case for faith.He is no longer an Atheist after trying to prove there is no God,But he is now a Christian.Just do not reject everything you do not agree with right away follow the evidence.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 18, 2019)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> there are some remarkable parallels between the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Buddha


Very good post Roger. There absolutely should be many similarities between the teachings of Jesus and Siddhartha, they were both teaching the same thing and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out that Jesus gathered much of his wisdom from Siddhartha.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 18, 2019)

old buzzard said:


> Satan got Eve to doubt God then deceived her with a half truth.(has God indeed said,You shall not eat the fruit of the trees) That of course was the truth he did say that,But he also said of that one tree they were not to eat.That they could eat any other fruit they wanted.Then after he got them to doubt God.He told them if they ate the fruit they could be like God.Every since then man tries to be a God.Thus the birth of the New Age cult.it is not new at all but been around a long time.just keeps getting wrapped in new paper and resold.The bible is a collection of 66 books written over a about a 1600 year period,and actually proves some science accurate.Thousands of years ago the holy spirit told Isaiah the earth was a circle 40:22 man rejected that only later to find he knew that waaaaay back then.How could he?It has recorded cities, history has said did not exist only when man went digging to prove they were not there did they find them.To dismiss everything in scripture and call it a myth is only a denial of Gods supremacy and authority over us.God gave us a free will that's what gets us in trouble.But he wanted us to choose to love him and live for him,not because he made us to.Just like my own children I want them to have a relationship with me because they want to and they see I love them.He tells us if we search for him we will find him.See if we deny him we will not.even that is our choice.That makes us responsible for our own decision.but even in the garden,Adam blamed Eve( it was that woman you gave me.)he also blamed God.I have even done that before. and Eve blamed the Serpent.But God came to Adam and Eve,they were responsible for their actions.I'm not telling any one to believe like me.but if any here reading this post want to search.Perhaps get the books written by an Atheist investigative journalist,Lee Strobel.The books are called a case for Christ, a case for creation,a case for faith.He is no longer an Atheist after trying to prove there is no God,But he is now a Christian.Just do not reject everything you do not agree with right away follow the evidence.


And what exactly is the evidence for God? Why would he become a Christian just because he could not disprove Gods existence that doesn't make any sense. You can spend your entire life "searching " the world without, until you look within you will not find God.


----------



## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 18, 2019)

i'm a believing skeptic....i think there is a God...but i don't believe in any human religion...not one. many people have gotten close to enlightenment, and i can get behind the adoption of a philosophy...as long as they keep the divinity out of it.
treat each other well, because that's how you want to be treated. be generous, but not so generous you turn the recipient into a bum. be kind, but not naive. don't turn charity into an institution...turn hard work and perseverance into an institution, and charity into a natural reaction to another's adversity


----------



## dandyrandy (Mar 18, 2019)

This guy is evangelical.
Appalachia


----------



## dandyrandy (Mar 18, 2019)

New Age United said:


> And what exactly is the evidence for God? Why would he become a Christian just because he could not disprove Gods existence that doesn't make any sense. You can spend your entire life "searching " the world without, until you look within you will not find God.


So dark matter is god?


----------



## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 18, 2019)

old buzzard said:


> How could he?


this dude named Pythagoras...look him up..born in 570 BC....BC....


old buzzard said:


> To dismiss everything in scripture and call it a myth is only a denial of Gods supremacy and authority over us.


yes, yes it is, and i do....


old buzzard said:


> Just do not reject everything you do not agree with right away follow the evidence.


i'm 53 and have spent a good part of that studying, thinking, discussing God and religion...there's nothing "right away" about my opinions...they're considered, they're weighed, they're informed....i've seen the evidence and interpret it drastically differently than you do...
God did indeed give us free will, to make our own choices in life...so that we wouldn't be puppets to his will, wouldn't be dancing on the strings of fate like marionettes...and when he did that, he withdrew from our daily lives...because intervention in those lives is more of the same, more strings from a puppet master, no matter how benevolent they may be...
he believed in us enough to give us a chance...and we're doing everything we can to fuck it up


----------



## dandyrandy (Mar 18, 2019)

old buzzard said:


> Satan got Eve to doubt God then deceived her with a half truth.(has God indeed said,You shall not eat the fruit of the trees) That of course was the truth he did say that,But he also said of that one tree they were not to eat.That they could eat any other fruit they wanted.Then after he got them to doubt God.He told them if they ate the fruit they could be like God.Every since then man tries to be a God.Thus the birth of the New Age cult.it is not new at all but been around a long time.just keeps getting wrapped in new paper and resold.The bible is a collection of 66 books written over a about a 1600 year period,and actually proves some science accurate.Thousands of years ago the holy spirit told Isaiah the earth was a circle 40:22 man rejected that only later to find he knew that waaaaay back then.How could he?It has recorded cities, history has said did not exist only when man went digging to prove they were not there did they find them.To dismiss everything in scripture and call it a myth is only a denial of Gods supremacy and authority over us.God gave us a free will that's what gets us in trouble.But he wanted us to choose to love him and live for him,not because he made us to.Just like my own children I want them to have a relationship with me because they want to and they see I love them.He tells us if we search for him we will find him.See if we deny him we will not.even that is our choice.That makes us responsible for our own decision.but even in the garden,Adam blamed Eve( it was that woman you gave me.)he also blamed God.I have even done that before. and Eve blamed the Serpent.But God came to Adam and Eve,they were responsible for their actions.I'm not telling any one to believe like me.but if any here reading this post want to search.Perhaps get the books written by an Atheist investigative journalist,Lee Strobel.The books are called a case for Christ, a case for creation,a case for faith.He is no longer an Atheist after trying to prove there is no God,But he is now a Christian.Just do not reject everything you do not agree with right away follow the evidence.


When you get Ill do you see Benny hinn or the Dr.?


----------



## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 18, 2019)

dandyrandy said:


> When you get Ill do you see Benny hinn or the Dr.?


nah, they just lay hands on each other, and pray


----------



## New Age United (Mar 18, 2019)

dandyrandy said:


> So dark matter is god?


Dark matter is dark matter, God is the Silent witness to this frame of reference in space-time, the here and now(eternity). Strictly my opinion of course.


----------



## old buzzard (Mar 18, 2019)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> this dude named Pythagoras...look him up..born in 570 BC....BC....
> 
> yes, yes it is, and i do....
> 
> ...


Hey Randy I also do not like religion.In Jesus day it was the religious who hated him.He was a threat to their organization.they were corrupt.that was not Gods fault,they were thirsty for money and power,just like today.God wants a relationship with us not religion,I could not agree more with you on that point.But I choose to believe he did not leave us rather we chose to leave him.Thus all the evil in our hearts today.That evil can be brought into religion just like it always has been.Only time Jesus got mad was when he over turned the tables in the temple because man had turned it into a den of thieves.Our struggle is to follow God or our nature of rebellion.It is a daily struggle every man must have with free will.I only admit I am wrong and God is right.And I ask him to help me be a better person,I'm not telling any one else to do so.


----------



## old buzzard (Mar 18, 2019)

dandyrandy said:


> When you get Ill do you see Benny hinn or the Dr.?


no I do not like Benny Hinn.Without even knowing me,that is a real stretch.That would like me saying you like and follow someone based on one post.Dont attack me personally over my belief.I did not do that to you.But that seems to be the approach of most today.My post was not meant to start a argument of identity like yours.Be Blessed and have a good day


----------



## dandyrandy (Mar 18, 2019)

old buzzard said:


> no I do not like Benny Hinn.Without even knowing me,that is a real stretch.That would like me saying you like and follow someone based on one post.Dont attack me personally over my belief.I did not do that to you.But that seems to be the approach of most today.My post was not meant to start a argument of identity like yours.Be Blessed and have a good day


Good day! Their are interesting documentaries done on the study of human beliefs. One is the invisible fairy princess study with kids. The other is with adults doing random shocks and shocks administered non random. Google them both. I know it's hard. But I don't follow anybody. I may agree with some but I've found that after almost 75 years on this earth people believe what makes them feel good. But that's usually not the path to take. Knock yourself out! I got to go out and get some ground broken up with my tractor.


----------



## dandyrandy (Mar 18, 2019)

New Age United said:


> Dark matter is dark matter, God is the Silent witness to this frame of reference in space-time, the here and now(eternity). Strictly my opinion of course.


In the quantum realm? You do know that we are mostly dark matter don't you? Spaced out baby! I have things to do. Changing you isn't one of them.


----------



## dandyrandy (Mar 18, 2019)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> nah, they just lay hands on each other, and pray


I loved to watch his shows! Speaking in tongues is my favorite. Now Benny Hill, that's a good one!


----------



## New Age United (Mar 18, 2019)

dandyrandy said:


> In the quantum realm? You do know that we are mostly dark matter don't you? Spaced out baby! I have things to do. Changing you isn't one of them.


I thought that dark matter and matter exist equally throughout the universe, but no what I am referring to is not a thing at all, it is not an object it is the subject, like an empty space you could even say that it does not exist yet it is very real.


----------



## dandyrandy (Mar 18, 2019)

New Age United said:


> I thought that dark matter and matter exist equally throughout the universe, but no what I am referring to is not a thing at all, it is not an object it is the subject, like an empty space you could even say that it does not exist yet it is very real.


Damn you don't do science!


----------



## dandyrandy (Mar 18, 2019)

New Age United said:


> I thought that dark matter and matter exist equally throughout the universe, but no what I am referring to is not a thing at all, it is not an object it is the subject, like an empty space you could even say that it does not exist yet it is very real.


Btw there is no such thing as "empty space" even in a vacuum. Particles pop in and out even in a vacuum. Got to go! Your atoms would fly apart if not for dark matter and dark energy. We are learning the quantum realm. I had a very good conversation with an Indian doctor a few weeks ago about it. He finds it hilarious that people think they are special. I try to hang around people smarter than me. That way I can learn. I'm just a dumbass believe me. But I'm learning!


----------



## New Age United (Mar 18, 2019)

dandyrandy said:


> Damn you don't do science!


No I do science, do you? Science doesn't mean that you already know everything it has a lot to do with Learning new things, so please share any knowledge that I might be ignorant of.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 18, 2019)

dandyrandy said:


> Btw there is no such thing as "empty space" even in a vacuum. Particles pop in and out even in a vacuum. Got to go! Your atoms would fly apart if not for dark matter and dark energy. We are learning the quantum realm. I had a very good conversation with an Indian doctor a few weeks ago about it. He finds it hilarious that people think they are special. I try to hang around people smarter than me. That way I can learn. I'm just a dumbass believe me. But I'm learning!


And it sounds like you have an internet addiction lol!!! This is like the 4th time you've said I got to go but you're still here.
9f course the human mind has made space into an object, just as it has with time, but in fact even the smallest particles have immense space within and around them, 99.999999% of all space is in fact completely empty.


----------



## dandyrandy (Mar 18, 2019)

New Age United said:


> And it sounds like you have an internet addiction lol!!! This is like the 4th time you've said I got to go but you're still here.
> 9f course the human mind has made space into an object, just as it has with time, but in fact even the smallest particles have immense space within and around them, 99.999999% of all space is in fact completely empty.


Not really. Just got in and got a shower. 1 light travels through a vacuum. Explain. 2. quarks and other strange things pop in and out of a vacuum. Much smaller than atoms btw. 3 your atoms are held together by what? 4. Learn a bit about string theory and you will understand that there is no difference between you and a pile of dung. Let me know when you can answer those questions.


----------



## dandyrandy (Mar 18, 2019)

New Age United said:


> No I do science, do you? Science doesn't mean that you already know everything it has a lot to do with Learning new things, so please share any knowledge that I might be ignorant of.


I don't know everything. Only a fool says that. But it seems in another universe you may be smarter. Or dumber.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 18, 2019)

dandyrandy said:


> Not really. Just got in and got a shower. 1 light travels through a vacuum. Explain. 2. quarks and other strange things pop in and out of a vacuum. Much smaller than atoms btw. 3 your atoms are held together by what? 4. Learn a bit about string theory and you will understand that there is no difference between you and a pile of dung. Let me know when you can answer those questions.


No I can't answer those questions but could you please explain how that goes against what I am saying about space?

As for your second response, are you aware of the ego in you, do you have any idea how unintelligent the ego is, it likes to feel intelligent, of course the mind wants to feel intelligent, you are not hitting anything in me by insulting me, there are no buttons to press, there is no ego.


----------



## old buzzard (Mar 18, 2019)

the key here is the word string( theory). Hey Randy I wanted you to know where I am coming from.I cannot debate science with faith or vice versa.I completely understand where you are coming from.I want to use a Farmer as an example if that's all right.As that is how I taught my children about faith.A farmer has to have faith, a great farmer needs great faith.In fact without the military,law enforcement and farming society falls apart.The bible says faith is the evidence of things hoped for but not yet seen.As I have watched farmers over the years, they work their butts off to prepare fields then invest their money in seed and fertilizer and so many other things.When I drive by them I see them plowing.But they see the harvest when I talk to them.They invest everything their family has because they believe there is going to be a harvest.Faith prompted them to work and invest,If they did not have the faith to do that, then they would not have seen the harvest come to be.Their faith was the evidence of the harvest, before there was a harvest they seen it.Likewise for me I believe there is a God and he is who he says he is even though he is not standing in front of me.After I accepted him in Faith I began to see him all around me.Involved in my everyday life and my family.Like the wind you cannot see the wind but you can see the results or the effects of it blowing.It is so real to me, I cannot even explain it to you.As real as anything in this physical world.But this is the Spiritual world I am talking about.We were given a physical body that makes us aware of physical things.we were also given a spirit to make us aware of spiritual things.Like the physical body we need to feed it,The spiritual body needs to be fed spiritual things or it will be sick also.I do not think any less of anyone who does not see what I see.No more than I would say the farmer is crazy when he sees a harvest that is not there yet.I think we will usually find what we go looking for and you and I are merely looking for different things.That does not make either one of us a fool or to be made a joke of.sometimes we make fun of things we do not understand.hopefully that helps you understand where I was coming from.I believe you are likely a very smart individual .You have a good day sir and may you and yours be blessed.


----------



## dandyrandy (Mar 18, 2019)

New Age United said:


> No I can't answer those questions but could you please explain how that goes against what I am saying about space?
> 
> As for your second response, are you aware of the ego in you, do you have any idea how unintelligent the ego is, it likes to feel intelligent, of course the mind wants to feel intelligent, you are not hitting anything in me by insulting me, there are no buttons to press, there is no ego.


Oh good lord here we go with the psychiatrist bs. I'm not insulting you. Pride is in you. If you can't explain things except in a mumbo jumbo incantation then you need some self help. You are talking nonsense. None provable. I'm not intelligent. I just believe facts. No more comments about your poor little self. Grow up.


----------



## dandyrandy (Mar 18, 2019)

old buzzard said:


> the key here is the word string( theory). Hey Randy I wanted you to know where I am coming from.I cannot debate science with faith or vice versa.I completely understand where you are coming from.I want to use a Farmer as an example if that's all right.As that is how I taught my children about faith.A farmer has to have faith, a great farmer needs great faith.In fact without the military,law enforcement and farming society falls apart.The bible says faith is the evidence of things hoped for but not yet seen.As I have watched farmers over the years, they work their butts off to prepare fields then invest their money in seed and fertilizer and so many other things.When I drive by them I see them plowing.But they see the harvest when I talk to them.They invest everything their family has because they believe there is going to be a harvest.Faith prompted them to work and invest,If they did not have the faith to do that, then they would not have seen the harvest come to be.Their faith was the evidence of the harvest, before there was a harvest they seen it.Likewise for me I believe there is a God and he is who he says he is even though he is not standing in front of me.After I accepted him in Faith I began to see him all around me.Involved in my everyday life and my family.Like the wind you cannot see the wind but you can see the results or the effects of it blowing.It is so real to me, I cannot even explain it to you.As real as anything in this physical world.But this is the Spiritual world I am talking about.We were given a physical body that makes us aware of physical things.we were also given a spirit to make us aware of spiritual things.Like the physical body we need to feed it,The spiritual body needs to be fed spiritual things or it will be sick also.I do not think any less of anyone who does not see what I see.No more than I would say the farmer is crazy when he sees a harvest that is not there yet.I think we will usually find what we go looking for and you and I are merely looking for different things.That does not make either one of us a fool or to be made a joke of.sometimes we make fun of things we do not understand.hopefully that helps you understand where I was coming from.I believe you are likely a very smart individual .You have a good day sir and may you and yours be blessed.


What a load. I am blessed. But you have zero power to bless. Thoughts and prayers.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 18, 2019)

dandyrandy said:


> Oh good lord here we go with the psychiatrist bs. I'm not insulting you. Pride is in you. If you can't explain things except in a mumbo jumbo incantation then you need some self help. You are talking nonsense. None provable. I'm not intelligent. I just believe facts. No more comments about your poor little self. Grow up.


Did I strike a nerve lol!!! So serious humanity


----------



## dandyrandy (Mar 18, 2019)

New Age United said:


> Did I strike a nerve lol!!! So serious humanity


No hardly. You are not teachable. Waste of time. Knock yourself out.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 18, 2019)

dandyrandy said:


> No hardly. You are not teachable. Waste of time. Knock yourself out.


You sound very unconfident in the subject. "If you cannot explain it to a child you don't understand it yourself "


----------



## JohnDee (Mar 18, 2019)

New Age United said:


> just as the sun can be blotted out by the storm so to can the Light within you be covered up by the storm of thoughts and emotions


I like this...very clearly stated

But seriously...why re-invent the wheel? There's Zen, Hindu thought, Rhadi Swami teaching (Sikism) and so on. Anyone who seeks the comfort (or whatever) that Religion provides have all those choices.
JD


----------



## New Age United (Mar 18, 2019)

JohnDee said:


> I like this...very clearly stated
> 
> But seriously...why re-invent the wheel? There's Zen, Hindu thought, Rhadi Swami teaching (Sikism) and so on. Anyone who seeks the comfort (or whatever) that Religion provides have all those choices.
> JD


Yes you hit the nail on the head, Zen, that is exactly what I am trying to teach, but it is not a religion Zen is the state of no mind, or no thought, perfect stillness and Presence, it has nothing to do with faith or ideology.


----------



## JohnDee (Mar 19, 2019)

doogledore said:


> Why are you offering us a way out of suffering if peace "already exists" within us?


This is essentially the same question a young Dogen Zenji asked his teacher. This struggle with understanding was the beginning of the Soto school in early 1200 AD.

Masao Abe wrote several books on the this and are more accessible then the actual 800 year Shobogenzo.
JD


----------



## yummy fur (Apr 8, 2019)

Pain is not sorrow.


----------



## New Age United (Apr 8, 2019)

yummy fur said:


> Pain is not sorrow.


Do you care to delve a little deeper???


----------



## yummy fur (Apr 9, 2019)

New Age United said:


> Do you care to delve a little deeper???


Well when I hear about 'suffering' as in 'life is suffering' and stuff like that, I often find that there is a confusion between physical pain and the sort of torment that is unique to the human animal. I think in any talk about 'suffering' we first need to define what we're talking about. I mean I've read the first post and there is no clarity there at all.

I don't even know if the original post is serious or sarcastic, or somewhere 'twixt the two. 

So perhaps you could clarify what you mean by 'suffering' and what you mean by 'I can show you the way out', which if you analyse it is in fact a contradiction.


----------



## JohnDee (Apr 9, 2019)

Good morning,
The suffering that Buddhists often refer to is related to the human desire for more. To possess more...to eat more...to have more stimulation and so on. And even once we get the things we desire...we are not content because those desires have been replaced by a whole new set of desires. This is the trap...and Buddhists strive through meditation to overcome desire. Not really about physical pain at all...which is a sensation.
JD


----------



## New Age United (Apr 9, 2019)

yummy fur said:


> Well when I hear about 'suffering' as in 'life is suffering' and stuff like that, I often find that there is a confusion between physical pain and the sort of torment that is unique to the human animal. I think in any talk about 'suffering' we first need to define what we're talking about. I mean I've read the first post and there is no clarity there at all.
> 
> I don't even know if the original post is serious or sarcastic, or somewhere 'twixt the two.
> 
> So perhaps you could clarify what you mean by 'suffering' and what you mean by 'I can show you the way out', which if you analyse it is in fact a contradiction.


The suffering I refer to is mental emotional "unease" and as John said it can be caused by unfulfilled desire. No I wasn't being sarcastic and i don't see how i contradict myself i don't know how you came to those conclusions.


----------



## yummy fur (Apr 14, 2019)

New Age United said:


> The suffering I refer to is mental emotional "unease" and as John said it can be caused by unfulfilled desire. No I wasn't being sarcastic and i don't see how i contradict myself i don't know how you came to those conclusions.


OK so you are correctly referring to the human condition as manifested in ideas that we have about ourselves, as 'suffering' or 'sorrow' the words are interchangeable for the purposes of this discussion. Your intro post is so preposterous as to inevitably be taken as sarcasm or parody. I mean who just begins a thread saying "I can solve the human problem".

The contradiction is in the 'showing' the 'way out', but more on that later, for the moment without defining terms better, we have to assume that you know the 'way out' of the human condition, if that is the case then you will be able to state what exactly is this human condition and by what means of knowledge you intend to use. And how will the 'suffering' be ended.

_as John said it can be caused by unfulfilled desire_

It's not possible to have a meaningful discussion if weasel words like the above are allowed to pass without comment. So here goes... Either say "_it is caused by unfulfilled desire", _or don't say it at all. I'm not trying to be argumentative here it's a serious point. Do you see?

The problem is deeper than a so called 'unfulfilled desire' as a little rudimentary analysis can show. In fact this is the common error that nearly all people make.


----------



## New Age United (Apr 14, 2019)

yummy fur said:


> OK so you are correctly referring to the human condition as manifested in ideas that we have about ourselves, as 'suffering' or 'sorrow' the words are interchangeable for the purposes of this discussion. Your intro post is so preposterous as to inevitably be taken as sarcasm or parody. I mean who just begins a thread saying "I can solve the human problem".
> 
> The contradiction is in the 'showing' the 'way out', but more on that later, for the moment without defining terms better, we have to assume that you know the 'way out' of the human condition, if that is the case then you will be able to state what exactly is this human condition and by what means of knowledge you intend to use. And how will the 'suffering' be ended.
> 
> ...


It's not preposterous it's actually very simple, for thousands maybe millions of year the human being has mistaken its identity as the Thinker, they truly believe that they are the ones who are thinking inside their heads. You are not the Thinker that is your ego, that little nagging voice that takes everything way too seriously and never shuts up, but if you can recognize your true self as pure awareness then the identification with the ego is broken and it ceases to exist, you can do this by becoming aware of space, of all the emptiness around you. If this doesn't make perfect sense then you are not ready to awaken and will remain trapped in the darkness of your own mind where all forms of suffering rule your life, fear, sadness, anxiety, boredom, anger etc.


----------



## JohnDee (Apr 14, 2019)

yummy fur said:


> It's not possible to have a meaningful discussion if weasel words like the above are allowed to pass without comment. So here goes... Either say "_it is caused by unfulfilled desire", _or don't say it at all. I'm not trying to be argumentative here it's a serious point. Do you see?
> 
> The problem is deeper than a so called 'unfulfilled desire' as a little rudimentary analysis can show. In fact this is the common error that nearly all people make.


Just to clarify...I did not say suffering CAN BE caused by unfulfilled desire. Those were NAUs words. What I said is this: All human suffering is caused by unfulfilled desire.

This is the core of Buddhist teaching...so to argue against this comment is to argue with the Buddha. Good luck with that.
JD


----------



## yummy fur (Apr 15, 2019)

JohnDee said:


> Just to clarify...I did not say suffering CAN BE caused by unfulfilled desire. Those were NAUs words. What I said is this: All human suffering is caused by unfulfilled desire.
> 
> This is the core of Buddhist teaching...so to argue against this comment is to argue with the Buddha. Good luck with that.
> JD


Yeah, I'm not surprised he/she misquoted you. Now that you've clarified that, without me putting words into your mouth I feel obliged to point out the error of your proposition that 'all human suffering is caused by unfulfilled desire'. Before I do that though, I want to address your implication that 'arguing with the Buddha' is somehow an already losing proposition.

The irony is that argument, or more to the point, superior analytical enquiry is what got the Buddha out of India, he had more luck with the apparently less rigorous eastern religions. So something stands or falls on its veracity or lack of, but nothing stands just because it's quoted from 'authority' which is basically what you are doing. The Buddha said this... and that's the end of the matter.

It's not the desire which is the problem for if it were then life would be fundamentally fucked. The problem is whether the desire is binding or non binding. It's fine to have desires, it's fine to have them unfulfilled, to have an equanimity of mind due to an understanding that everything is in order, which comes from the knowledge of what is, is what we really desire.

This is just trying to get a handle on this rather large topic, which NAU is not doing a very good job at, in fact without meaning to be rude @NAU, your previous post while being well intentioned just comes across as preaching from someone who themselves has recognised there is a human problem but had most definitely not solved it.


----------



## New Age United (Apr 15, 2019)

yummy fur said:


> Yeah, I'm not surprised he/she misquoted you. Now that you've clarified that, without me putting words into your mouth I feel obliged to point out the error of your proposition that 'all human suffering is caused by unfulfilled desire'. Before I do that though, I want to address your implication that 'arguing with the Buddha' is somehow an already losing proposition.
> 
> The irony is that argument, or more to the point, superior analytical enquiry is what got the Buddha out of India, he had more luck with the apparently less rigorous eastern religions. So something stands or falls on its veracity or lack of, but nothing stands just because it's quoted from 'authority' which is basically what you are doing. The Buddha said this... and that's the end of the matter.
> 
> ...


I wasnt quoting john I was saying that unfulfilled desire "can" cause suffering but is certainly not the only cause. Now I will quote the buddha my self, when Siddhartha was asked what is Enlightenment all he replied was "the end of suffering". There actually is a way out of suffering, it is not complicated or difficult at all, it is not a goal to be attained in the future it is something that you can do right now. 

Become aware of Space, of all the emptiness around you, when you are aware of Space you have a brief lapse in the constant stream of thinking, if you become aware of Space as often as you can remember those gaps in thought will become longer until eventually you can maintain Presence for long periods and eventually the state of Presence will become your natural state, the state of Enlightenment. In this state you realize that there is absolutely nothing wrong with this moment, the world is not hell it is actually a very peaceful Paradise.

Now I am not actually typing these words for you but for others to read, people who are not so bound by their egos, their minds, the world, I have no interest in proving anything to anybody I realized long ago that it was a waste of time.

"Everything that I have told you is not for me but for you alone" Muhammad 

I don't get gratification from hearing myself speak I get gratification from helping people break free from suffering.


----------



## JohnDee (Apr 15, 2019)

New age United,
I don't know why you feel this reason to proselytize. That is not the Buddhist way. You seem to be experiencing some sort of personal vision relating to the path toward enlightenment. You see the path...but the path is not the goal. I apologize for intruding on whatever it is you're trying to accomplish here.
JD


----------



## New Age United (Apr 15, 2019)

JohnDee said:


> New age United,
> I don't know why you feel this reason to proselytize. That is not the Buddhist way. You seem to be experiencing some sort of personal vision relating to the path toward enlightenment. You see the path...but the path is not the goal. I apologize for intruding on whatever it is you're trying to accomplish here.
> JD


I'm not trying to accomplish anything John, there is no goal, all of these belong to the realm of mind, I am simply allowing consciousness to awaken from its sleep and realize true Enlightenment, which is not any idea or form but the words I write are only pointers towards something much bigger than ideas and forms, all things are forms, even thoughts are forms, you have to find the formless both within and without, by becoming aware of space we become aware of our own formless essence.


----------



## gearshift (Apr 15, 2019)

I am suffering here! LOL while crying for understanding. How can one be aware of Space and "see" the emptiness around me, only? Personally, most of my adult life has been Paradise which briefly is lost when I again become aware of my or other's sufferings. The Lakota elders and Shaman in Pine Ridge called me "a wind walker" many years and sufferings ago. When I wind walk "I" have no suffering nor have "I" felt the suffering of others; also I am not sure if "I" am aware of suffering at all. This said, the only emptiness I have been aware of, is the lack of something my (suffering) mind tells me should be and is not. There is no awareness of emptiness when "I" wind walk. Perhaps I don't understand what emptiness is.


----------



## New Age United (Apr 15, 2019)

gearshift said:


> I am suffering here! LOL while crying for understanding. How can one be aware of Space and "see" the emptiness around me, only? Personally, most of my adult life has been Paradise which briefly is lost when I again become aware of my or other's sufferings. The Lakota elders and Shaman in Pine Ridge called me "a wind walker" many years and sufferings ago. When I wind walk "I" have no suffering nor have "I" felt the suffering of others; also I am not sure if "I" am aware of suffering at all. This said, the only emptiness I have been aware of, is the lack of something my (suffering) mind tells me should be and is not. There is no awareness of emptiness when "I" wind walk. Perhaps I don't understand what emptiness is.


Actually when you become aware of Space you become aware of everything, instead of your attention being consumed by your thoughts you become directly aware of the present moment, the universe as it truly exists in this moment. 

Yes suffering will still present itself both within you and in others the key is not to try to avoid or resist suffering but to accept it and allow it to be as it is, you have to say yes to it and when you do you will find that the emotional pain loses its charge.

That's great that you are living in Paradise life is some beautiful isn't it. Suffering now is just a reminder that all things are fleeting and unimportant.


----------



## gearshift (Apr 15, 2019)

Thank you! I can "see" and I think I can understand your comments. Thanks. My sufferings seem insubstantial when their time is over, especially when the awareness of the sufferings of others seem to overwhelms me, at those times I am not sure if I feel empathy or the need to fix things. 

But. But, I am not sure what being aware of emptiness is. When I wind walk, (what others call: out of body or being in the Spirit), it seems like all of me is there and aware, (there is no suffering that "I" am aware of, there is thought without the need to control my thoughts) and there is no emptiness. The thought of emptiness causes within me a type of suffering. (To me emptiness is the same as nothing and it "hurts" to even to think of nothingness.
Thank you, NAU. (No offence intended in referring to you as that.)


----------



## gearshift (Apr 15, 2019)

Paradise!!! 
I "know". It is a "time" when everything is right and peaceful and good. I am even when all others may not be. I am alone, but not lonely, surrounded by humanity. Everything and everyone is beautiful even though I alone, it may seem, am aware of the total beauty and joy of life. 
Is that Paradise? It is to me.


----------



## New Age United (Apr 15, 2019)

gearshift said:


> Paradise!!!
> I "know". It is a "time" when everything is right and peaceful and good. I am even when all others may not be. I am alone, but not lonely, surrounded by humanity. Everything and everyone is beautiful even though I alone, it may seem, am aware of the total beauty and joy of life.
> Is that Paradise? It is to me.


Yes that is the Paradise I am referring to, Tolle calls it the simple joy of being, when you can be alone and not feel lonely or be doing nothing and not get bored, you just enjoy being alive. 

The thought of nothingness can cause suffering to the mind bc it can only conceive objects, things, forms. The thought of nothingness is inconceivable, even more frightening to the ego is the thought that you yourself are nothingness, emptiness, formlessness, but by finding the formless within and without you lose your attachment to this world, the bond breaks and suddenly the world is not so dark, heavy, alien, and serious. 

A sacred balance has been lost in man it is the balance between things and nothing, form and formless, between the world and You. Once you find the formless self, your true self, pure awareness, the light, then all of a sudden the world becomes insignificant yet at the same time beautiful and sacred.

I would highly recommend the book "a new Earth" by Eckhart Tolle


----------



## yummy fur (Apr 16, 2019)

_@NAU, I was saying that unfulfilled desire "can" cause suffering_

that is incorrect. Give me an example if you like and I'll show you how it will be incorrect under analysis.

_@NAU, I don't get gratification from hearing myself speak I get gratification from helping people break free from suffering._

Well it certainly seems like that because you have not addressed *any* of the points I raised so what is the fucking point of starting the thread if you are going to ignore a query. It can only be because you don't give a shit and just want to, as someone has already said, proselytise.


----------



## New Age United (Apr 16, 2019)

yummy fur said:


> _@NAU, I was saying that unfulfilled desire "can" cause suffering_
> 
> that is incorrect. Give me an example if you like and I'll show you how it will be incorrect under analysis.
> 
> ...


I'm not going to try to make something so incredibly simple any more simple for you, on unfulfilled desire. And what points did you make exactly maybe if you had addressed me with respect I would have given more attention to your posts, right now I do not see how you're worth my time so that is about all the effort I am going to give you.


----------



## Bugeye (Apr 16, 2019)

All of my needs are met. I have not one worry. I am filled with gratitude. Yet precious little in my material world has changed. I have gotten here by surrendering my ego to a higher power and calming my inner voice. I sense I am far closer to the beginning of this path than the end, and this thought gives me great hope for what lies ahead. Today I send everyone love. May we all come to love one another and be the light of the world.


----------



## New Age United (Apr 16, 2019)

Bugeye said:


> All of my needs are met. I have not one worry. I am filled with gratitude. Yet precious little in my material world has changed. I have gotten here by surrendering my ego to a higher power and calming my inner voice. I sense I am far closer to the beginning of this path than the end, and this thought gives me great hope for what lies ahead. Today I send everyone love. May we all come to love one another and be the light of the world.


Well said Bugeye


----------



## New Age United (Apr 16, 2019)

I'm going to take a piece of wisdom from Bugeye's slogan "rejoice in your ability to choose again" and try to start over with you @yummy fur. For the record I wasn't saying that you were the one who gets gratification from your own words I was just making the point that I am not out here trying to boost my own ego.


----------



## gearshift (Apr 16, 2019)

Wow!! The joy! The joy!
I am you and you are me.
We are tree, the cloud, the water...and they are us.
I was taught that Jesus said I was to follow the path. But I could not find the path. I have always been on the path. I only now aware!
Thanks for the post and all who have replied!!!


----------



## gearshift (Apr 17, 2019)

@New Age United,
I know I know the answer, will ask the question.
Yes I see how my mind can't grasp emptiness and that the true me is formless, even though I know that is truth.
My mind has been greatly influenced by the western way of thinking. Not a problem when I am alone in my thoughts and let them drift by and the next one drifts in.
My question is about understanding emptiness.
I have a glass full of sour milk, the glass needs to be empty( yes it will be full of air) before it can be filled with something better. Is my understanding close to yours?


----------



## Bugeye (Apr 17, 2019)

gearshift said:


> @New Age United,
> I know I know the answer, will ask the question.
> Yes I see how my mind can't grasp emptiness and that the true me is formless, even though I know that is truth.
> My mind has been greatly influenced by the western way of thinking. Not a problem when I am alone in my thoughts and let them drift by and the next one drifts in.
> ...


Not addressed to me but I dig your thinking. In the quantum world, your glass would be both full and unfull of all liquids at all times and your consciousness would determine what was or wasn’t in the glass at any time. I think it might be the same in the spiritual world, but I don’t think that was what you were asking. 

I think your analogy is more about moving from our 3D world to a higher level of spiritual awareness? For me, I gotta empty the buttermilk first, calm the mind, before I can fill up the glass with something else. But I’m pretty new to it all. I think others that are farther down the path than I, can switch that buttermilk to whatever they want without emptying it first. So I don’t know that there is an answer to your question but if you are speaking to the power of quieting your mind, I’m with you! Perhaps a critical skill to learn for spiritual development? I think so.


----------



## New Age United (Apr 18, 2019)

gearshift said:


> @New Age United,
> I know I know the answer, will ask the question.
> Yes I see how my mind can't grasp emptiness and that the true me is formless, even though I know that is truth.
> My mind has been greatly influenced by the western way of thinking. Not a problem when I am alone in my thoughts and let them drift by and the next one drifts in.
> ...


Yes, but maybe not how you are thinking. You want to throw away the sour milk but you don't want to refill it with milk that will soon go sour, after all this is Eternity and you are in no hurry so you drink your milk slow, savoring the taste, feeling the wholesome nutrition that is entering the body, filled with gratitude and Bliss.

The thing is that even your happy emotions are not what we want to be full of, that is not true Bliss. All emotions are fleeting and carry with them their opposite, it is a two sided coin, and they depend heavily on the content of your thinking so inevitably your happiness will pass and become suffering at somepoint(the milk goes sour).

What if I told you that there is a cow in the pasture who's milk never sours, would you wanna keep drinking the good milk that never sours or keep wasting the other milk that sours quickly? There is a center in you, and in that center there is perfect stillness, find your center, then anchor your attention there. From this center emanates nothing but Peace, Bliss and Love, which are not emotions they do not exist in the body and influence your mind, they emanate from the Source of all creation, the very Source that created your body, they emanate from your deepest being, they are Eternal they don't pass quickly or turn sour so to speak.

It is this Peace, Bliss and Love that we want to be full of, and the good news is that you already have all three emanating inside you, you just have uncover them.

I will get more into how to achieve Presence and how to maintain that Presence a little later, which is your center, your connection to the Source of all Eternal Life Energy.


----------



## gearshift (Apr 18, 2019)

@Bugeye , the power of the quiet mind is what my post was about. Thank you for your reply.

@New Age United , we maybe on the same page. (I like your story.) The cow is me and I am the cow. I will drink the milk that will not sour as I need, until I am aware that the cow and I do not exist.
I am grateful for both Bugeye and you, NAU for sharing, and I will appreciate it if you continue to share.
I look forward to your sharing your wisdom of Presence!
Thank you.


----------



## New Age United (Apr 18, 2019)

gearshift said:


> @Bugeye , the power of the quiet mind is what my post was about. Thank you for your reply.
> 
> @New Age United , we maybe on the same page. (I like your story.) The cow is me and I am the cow. I will drink the milk that will not sour as I need, until I am aware that the cow and I do not exist.
> I am grateful for both Bugeye and you, NAU for sharing, and I will appreciate it if you continue to share.
> ...


There will never be a moment where you do not exist, you are literally Immortal


----------



## New Age United (Apr 18, 2019)

You are the Awarness itself, the Light, you do not move, you do not perish as all things do


----------



## gearshift (Apr 19, 2019)

New Age United said:


> You are the Awarness itself, the Light, you do not move, you do not perish as all things do


Thank you, I am Awareness the Light.
I must apologize as I have repented for using the words "sour milk", a cup of swamp water would have been a much choice.
A lucid dream brought this Awareness. In this dream I could not drink using a glass the water was as ice, as I looked for for a source to quinch my growing thirst beingings watched. I jumped into a river, but could only drink when I put my head below the water and pushed the water in with my hand. Then I was told to wake up and drink. I drank more than five cups of water. I was awesome, beautiful and tasted great!


----------



## New Age United (Apr 19, 2019)

All I can say is you were probably taking in the life that permeates the body, feeling the energy that is entering the body (the water)

Life is abundant, we are not a part of this world but not apart from this world, simply a witness, yet we are intrinsically one with form and no form all at once, we are one with everything but don't identify with form, just be aware, aware of now, be right here right now. 

Don't think about what I'm saying, rather try to feel the truth of my words, they are only pointers to a much deeper truth.


----------



## gearshift (Apr 19, 2019)

Yes! 
I read about the 5 precepts. Led me to the 10 Grand Precepts. Which led me to the 3 Pure Precepts which led me to the 3 Refuges: the 16 Bodhisattva Precepts.
As I thought about what I read I went to sleep and I was mouth breathing as I dreamed. Which caused the body to thirst, but even with my head under water I could not drink until I pushed the water into my mouth. I was told to wake up and drink. I sure did that. 
Perhaps the Energy and my awareness showed me that reading is not enough, I must also take action. 
Thank you!


----------



## Rrog (Apr 24, 2019)

Is it not a coincidence that conspiracy theorists are often religious nut jobs?


----------



## New Age United (Apr 24, 2019)

Rrog said:


> Is it not a coincidence that conspiracy theorists are often religious nut jobs?


So are you forming a conspiracy theory about this thread lol!!!


----------



## Rrog (Apr 24, 2019)

More like observing fact


----------



## New Age United (Apr 24, 2019)

Rrog said:


> More like observing fact


I've never found religious nutjobs to be conspiracy theorists, I guess I never really got to know any well enough. If you are implying that I am one please do explain.


----------



## Rrog (Apr 24, 2019)

If you’re a bible thumper, you already believe in a conspiracy theory


----------



## Bugeye (Apr 25, 2019)

Rrog said:


> If you’re a bible thumper, you already believe in a conspiracy theory


Do you live more in fear and worries or love and grace? Just curious, not pushing a religion at ya.


----------



## Rrog (Apr 25, 2019)

I don't live in fear at all. People that know me personally would characterize me as a spiritual person


----------



## Bugeye (Apr 25, 2019)

Rrog said:


> I don't live in fear at all. People that know me personally would characterize me as a spiritual person


I think there are quite a few participants in this thread, myself included, that would describe themselves as spiritual but not religious. I've had some ill will toward religion in the past but have released it. It does not serve any purpose on my spiritual journey. Have a great day and please share some of your spiritual journey with us. Love to you.


----------



## gearshift (Apr 30, 2019)

@New Age United 

Thank you, very much for your recommendation. Tolle. I won't comment until reading it twice. 

However, I thank you for this post and everyone for their replies which keeps this post "alive"!!!!


----------



## New Age United (Apr 30, 2019)

gearshift said:


> @New Age United
> 
> Thank you, very much for your recommendation. Tolle. I won't comment until reading it twice.
> 
> However, I thank you for this post and everyone for their replies which keeps this post "alive"!!!!


He is a very wise man. You can always feel free to message me if you need my experience.


----------



## New Age United (May 6, 2019)

Ok, what is Enlightenment? How can I achieve this for myself? Why would I want to?

Presence: The past and future do not exist, they are literally figments of your imagination, everything that happens, has happened or ever will happen takes place now, in the Present, Eternity, there is not time, it literally does not exist, time is a measurement of the motion of Enegry through Space(space-time). Time exists only in the mind, and the mind is absolutely obsessed with time, if you take a close look at the activity of your own mind you will find that it is always thinking about the past and future, it ignores the present, it looks to the past for its sence of self and to the future for its fulfillment, the Ego. The human being is possessed by the mind, due to this constant thinking about past and future the person is never able to just Be, be Present and enjoy the Present for what it is, the mind is constantly looking back and anticipating. With an inability to let go of the past and the inability to control the future, depression and anxiety form, an endless cycle of fear and sadness takes over the mind and the human experience becomes dark and difficult. 

Presence is the end of all suffering, sadness, fear, anxiety, boredom, anger, all forms of suffering come to an end. Enlightenment is not a goal to achieve in the future, it is either now or never, by becoming Present you achieve the state of Enlightenment, at first it will be difficult to maintain Presence, it's kinda like walking on water, but with practice it will become a concrete road, and will be like walking on solid ground, you will know the path, even tho you've never traveled this road before, the wat will be clear, no more regretting the past or fearing an uncertain future, you live here and now, and that is where your true power will be realized, the power to control your life.

So let's become Present, how? Three portals into the now.
The breath: follow the breath in and out of the body, feel the life from within, the breath of life, breathe deep through the nose and feel your anxiety burning up, with each breath more and more of the anxious energy inside you gets evaporated and a sense of calm and peace overtakes you. As often as you can remember become aware of your breath and this will be more powerfully transformative than anything anyone could ever tell you.

The silence: Whether you are in the middle of a bustling city or out in the middle of the woods, can you sense the stillness that pervades it all, can you sense the silence out of which all noise comes from and goes back to. By becoming aware 9f silence we bring an inner stillness, the thoughts of our minds make noise as well, just observe, watch everything come, make its noise, then leave. Everything is becoming insignificant. 

Space: Can you become directly aware of all the empty space around you? Become aware of all the emptiness around you. That Space is Eternity, it has always been, always is, and always will be, it exists, it just does, it is the constant that contains the temporary, all things are temporary, they are fleeting, but Space does not change, you are one with that Space, you are Space, the emptiness, nothingness, you are not touched by time, Eternal, Immortal, the Light. When you are aware of space you are aware of everything. 

What do these all have in common? They are formless, the absence of form, the breath, silence, and space, they are not things, they have no form, they literal do not exist. There is lost in humanity a sacred balance, the balance between form and no form, form and formless, things and no-thing, between the world and you. If you can regain this balance, I promise you endless treasures in Heaven.


----------



## Bugeye (May 6, 2019)

New Age United said:


> Ok, what is Enlightenment? How can I achieve this for myself? Why would I want to?
> 
> Presence: The past and future do not exist, they are literally figments of your imagination, everything that happens, has happened or ever will happen takes place now, in the Present, Eternity, there is not time, it literally does not exist, time is a measurement of the motion of Enegry through Space(space-time). Time exists only in the mind, and the mind is absolutely obsessed with time, if you take a close look at the activity of your own mind you will find that it is always thinking about the past and future, it ignores the present, it looks to the past for its sence of self and to the future for its fulfillment, the Ego. The human being is possessed by the mind, due to this constant thinking about past and future the person is never able to just Be, be Present and enjoy the Present for what it is, the mind is constantly looking back and anticipating. With an inability to let go of the past and the inability to control the future, depression and anxiety form, an endless cycle of fear and sadness takes over the mind and the human experience becomes dark and difficult.
> 
> ...


That is good stuff! Thank you! May we all light up our souls together in the precious now.


----------



## OPfarmer (May 18, 2019)

I could never give credence to a culture, that let's dead humans fester and rot on the street Cows getting more respect..

Not saying people are better than cows but. Complete bunk to be so selfish and self centered treated other humans as subhuman. 

Quacks like a duck...
Walks like a duck..
Must be a duck.
(Same sales pitch as all religions)

But to each their own. I remember, rocks,meditation and insense, or shrooms or LSD in those just under 20 years of age. ( not the place for fragile eggshell minds..hehe)

Anyway the idea of taking way pain and suffering is a panacea. Look around you. Open your eyes it's in ..nature everywhere. No big deal. Been in constant agony with stage 4 reoccurring cancer for years now.

Personally, each individual can do what works for themselves,


----------



## New Age United (May 24, 2019)

OPfarmer said:


> I could never give credence to a culture, that let's dead humans fester and rot on the street Cows getting more respect..
> 
> Not saying people are better than cows but. Complete bunk to be so selfish and self centered treated other humans as subhuman.
> 
> ...


There is truth and there is illusion


----------



## OPfarmer (May 24, 2019)

New Age United said:


> There is truth and there is illusion


Sorry totally disagree.

How about "truth is an illusion"


----------



## Bugeye (May 24, 2019)

Divine truth is not an illusion. But much of what we experience in the 3D world we now inhabit is illusion that can obfuscate divine truth.


----------

