# Lucas Formula



## sealfever42 (Jan 11, 2007)

General Hydroponics Flora Series Feeding Strategy - Lucas Formula 

G-M-B (Grow-Micro-Bloom) 
0-5-10 - For Vegetative cycle (18/6) 
0-8-16 - For Flowering cycle (12/12) 

The numbers above indicate the number of milliliters (ml) of Flora Grow, Micro or Bloom formulas that I use in one gallon (US Liquid) of nutrients. 

You will notice I dont use any of the Flora Grow formula, do not need to, the Flora "Micro" provides plenty of Nitrogen. 

There are two ways to work with this formula: 

1. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected water solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. After adding back an amount of water equal to the amount of your reservoir capacity you should change the reservoir and put in fresh solution. 

2. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected 100% strength nutrient solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. Continue to use this nutrient solution without dumping the tank unless the PPM rises above acceptable levels. 

Between vegetative and flowering cycles you should dump your nutrients, then flush (possibly with Clearex) to remove salt buildups, then change to the other feeding program. Always shake your GH nutrient bottles before using them! 

For young plants, just transplanted into the hydro setup, give them 50% strength nutrient mix to prevent overfeeding them while their young. Gradually bring up the mix to full strength as they grow over the next few weeks or so. 

The lucas formula is normally intended for use with RO or near 0 PPM water. 

NOTE: The Lucas formula eliminates the need for Epsom salts to correct (Magnesium) Mg deficiencies in most normal feeding programs recommended by manufacturers. Cannabis needs a lot of Magnesium to thrive. 

The Flora Micro is providing the Nitrogen and the Magnesium in the proper balance, thus there is no need for the Grow formula and little or no room under the maximum acceptable ppm limit of 1600 @ 0.7 conversion. 

Calculated EC/TDS levels: 

EC microsiemen: 
0-4-8: 946 µS 
0-5-10: 1184 µS 
0-8-16: 1894 µS 

TDS @ 0.5 conversion: 
0-4-8 = 473 ppm 
0-5-10 = 592 ppm 
0-8-16 = 947 ppm 

TDS @ 0.7 conversion: 
0-4-8 = 663 ppm 
0-5-10 = 829 ppm 
0-8-16 = 1326 ppm 

Addback Calculator - (For Advanced Users) 

Say you were running the 0-8-16 formula, at 0.7 conversion with a 22 gallon res. When you first fill it up, your ppm will be around 1330. 

Now you have been growing for a week, and some of the water has been taken up by the plants, some has evaporated, and now your res is at 947 ppm. You need to get your ppm from 947 to 1330. Here is the equation: 

((target - current) / target) * 8 ml per gallon * res gallons = Flora Micro (ml) double this figure to get Flora Bloom (ml) 

Example: 

((1330 - 947) / 1330) * 8 * 22 
(383 / 1330) * 8 * 22 
0.3 * 8 * 22 = 53 ml Flora Micro 

53 ml Flora Micro, double that and you get 106 ml Flora Bloom. So 53 ml Flora Micro and 106 ml Flora Bloom to add back to your 22 gallon res to get you from 947 to 1330. 

Using Hard Water GH Micro 

I had been experimenting with using the Hard water Micro as a substitute for the normal Flora Micro, this to account for my hard 350 PPM water and the lack of a large enough RO filter at the time. It has worked well for me. I just kept my reservoir below 1150 PPM @ .5 conversion and its all good. 

One tip - do not pH down this stuff, the hard water micro will drop pH gradually over the next 24 hours, for example I mix up a batch, it is at like 6.2, the next day, its at 5.6-5.8 after running in the system for a while. If I pH downed that to 5.7 before putting it in the system, it ended up as low as 4.8-5.2 by the next day. 

My conclusion, the hard water micro was buffering the alkaline crud in my water, it just doesnot do it ASAP fast like the phosphoric acid.


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## Damion5050 (Apr 28, 2008)

been looking for this formula tyvm..


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## patjack (Apr 28, 2008)

Yeah,

I think the first time I was reffered to the lucas thread was by earl on this site and wow, talk about eaaassssyyyy, after I read the (long) thread I went hydro and I will say I will never look back, using this system is so easy I will never change. No more soil for me (except outside)


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## Damion5050 (Apr 28, 2008)

What kind of hydro system you using, I am currently doing HB


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## patjack (Apr 28, 2008)

I am using bubble buckets=
just a bucket with a bubbler and a 3in net pot in the top


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## Damion5050 (Apr 28, 2008)

What size bucket??


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## patjack (Apr 28, 2008)

oops,
five gallon buckets, one plant per so they can get bigger ( to stay under max plants for my area) I made them with all the drains and refills and crap but don't use those, from now on just buckets with a net pot and a small hole at the top for the airstone line to go through, I will say I have been following alot of the hempy threads and it sounds interesting, I will probably give it a shot in the future but for now this is working well for me.


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## Damion5050 (Apr 28, 2008)

Yeah HB is a simple mans Hydro System, most of the time if you mix your chemicals right you dont ever need to check ph or anything just use R/O water and measure your nutes right and it does the rest..


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## chunkdaddyo (Jun 1, 2008)

Can anyone tell me if I can change to the Lucas Formula in mid grow? I have been using Flora Nova Grow and now Bloom ( both by GH ).Things seem to growing well with the FloraNova except there is alot of undissolved matter in the bottom of reservoir. I hear that the GH FloraMicro/FloraGrow dissolves more fully. If I do change, should I use GH Florakleen for a day or two before changing? Any help would be appreciated.


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## potroast (Jun 3, 2008)

Stick with the FloraNova, and stir a lot more. 

HTH


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## aeroman (Jul 9, 2008)

any1 no if u can use the lucas forumula with ANs 3 part?


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## hooked.on.ponics (Jul 24, 2008)

Yeah, you can definitely use Advanced Nutrients' Grow, Micro, and Bloom plugged into the Lucas Formula. AN and GH use basically the same nutrient ratios.

Personally, I'd be ready to supplement it with Magnesium Sulphate - you're not supposed to need extra Magnesium with the Lucas Formula, but it's better to be safe than sorry, imho. If you don't need it, nothing is harmed.


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## aeroman (Aug 1, 2008)

hooked.on.ponics said:


> Yeah, you can definitely use Advanced Nutrients' Grow, Micro, and Bloom plugged into the Lucas Formula. AN and GH use basically the same nutrient ratios.
> 
> Personally, I'd be ready to supplement it with Magnesium Sulphate - you're not supposed to need extra Magnesium with the Lucas Formula, but it's better to be safe than sorry, imho. If you don't need it, nothing is harmed.


sweet ima try that next grow for shure

always wanted to try lucas formula
but i don like GH


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## CustomHydro (Sep 30, 2008)

aeroman said:


> sweet ima try that next grow for shure
> 
> always wanted to try lucas formula
> but i don like GH


It can be done with Pure Blend Pro also, actually it can be done woth any nutrient brand. U just need to use the conversion spreadsheet. I will look for it. I have it downloaded and all u do is type in the specs from the back of your nutes and it tells u how much to use to get u to this formula. 

This guy Lucas' has much more methods to his madness than listed here. Their are a lot of variables that are discussed in much mpore detail in this thread on cannabis world. I suggest anyone that tries this formula goes there to read up in more detail.


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## IVkingXX (Oct 4, 2008)

ive seen a a few threads that with the lucas formula you dont have to check ph...is that correct?


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## CustomHydro (Oct 5, 2008)

IVkingXX said:


> ive seen a a few threads that with the lucas formula you dont have to check ph...is that correct?


Google "ask lucas" and u will find a nice thread by him...


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## Yota (Dec 12, 2008)

i don't understand how you would never need to change your rez


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## CustomHydro (Dec 15, 2008)

If your nute solution is kept at proper temps, and minimal organics are added u can go two full grows w/o changing out res (from what I hear). The third grow your plants start to look sick and pale colored I wouldn't go more than 8 weeks max IMHO, and if it starts to smell bad change immediately... 
If you decide to go this route you are putting your res out there as a bacteria magnet, changing the res, although not always neccessary is still the safest way to go.


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## Matty10 (Jan 16, 2009)

Can I use the Lucas Formula if I have the Sensi Grow two part system and Sensi Bloom two part system? I am about to start my very first grow and someone recommended that I look up the Lucas Formula. If I can't use this formula is there another formula that I could follow?

Can someone explain the 2 types of ways to use the formula? I am about to start my very first grow and it sounds like this formula might be the easiest for someone first starting out. Finally, what does the TDS conversion @ 0.5 and 0.7 mean and what should my PPM be at during the various stages if my water is at 270 PPM?

Thank You

Matt


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## mrduke (Feb 13, 2009)

can i use this fumula with tap water around 300 ppm? 
when increasing the strenght from the starting clone to full veg do you just add more when topping off the res.?? little help with that would be great


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## doogleef (Feb 14, 2009)

Cool. A Lucas thread!

I love this formula. I have read every thread by Lucas I could find, twice. Couple of notes:

Lucas only recommends using the 0/5/10 ratios if vegging under fluro. If vegging under HID it is 0/8/16 all the way.

The updated preference is GH FloraNovaGrow. Same nutrient mix as the 0/8/16 in 1 bottle. Mix well. Use it at 8ml/gal of tap water (under .5 EC or RO) comes out to 2.0EC and 5.8PH. Perfection. 

The addback works great. No buildup for the whole cycle. The only other thing I add is H2O2. 

Here is the link for the nutrient calculator if you wanna run your current nutes through it to see what your really feeding:

http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm

If you cant figure it out just post the chem breakdown from the backs of your nute bottles and I will run it for you. 

AN 3part would work fine and in theory you could do the addbacks with any nute combo as long as what you are feeding is all in the right concentration to not build up as it is taken by the plants. 

FNG is 2% Mg so MG def is rare. A very slight N def can occur during the stretch but it clears on its own.


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## mrduke (Feb 14, 2009)

so dogleaf your saying with floranovagro that is all you need @ 8ml per gal. Do you add any bllom agents orother supplaments?


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## doogleef (Feb 14, 2009)

Correct 8ml/g. No supplements needed or recommended. ! part does it all. Simply beautiful.


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## badbert (Feb 20, 2009)

> If you cant figure it out just post the chem breakdown from the backs of your nute bottles and I will run it for you.


I have recently inherited 5 gallons of "europonics optimum bloom" I have 3 gallons of b and two gallons of A. I would like to convert these over to use the Lucas Formula. The labels wrap halfway around the bottle, so I took two pics of each label and combined them. Hope you can help me convert them!!

Thank you so much for your help!


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## doogleef (Feb 20, 2009)

Target = 100-100-200-60
Yours = 120-86-263-43

That's decent stuff. Has plenty of Cal and Mg too where lots of stuff does not. Mix that stuff with equal parts till you get your desired PPM and got to town.


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## badbert (Feb 20, 2009)

> That's decent stuff. Has plenty of Cal and Mg too where lots of stuff does not. Mix that stuff with equal parts till you get your desired PPM and got to town.


That's cool! It is some old school stuff my pal used to grow some wicked original haze years back. Been sitting in a dark room on a shelf since then. 

Please forgive me for being such a newb... is there any way to use the calculators to convert these nutrients to the equivalent of GH. For example
8 ml of micro with 16 ml of bloom = 1894
how many ml of each of these would I use to reach the same level?


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## doogleef (Feb 20, 2009)

Use them in equal parts. I ran it at 8ml each. Should be around 2.0EC


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## NoRegrets (Mar 9, 2009)

I originally started with 3 part Fox Farm (got tired of trying to figure it out). I read about the Lucas Formula and I havent looked back. Somuch easier to calculate and add-back, I couldnt beleive it . The only thing I add is Cal-Mag (if I see its needed), H202, and a little SuperThrive.

Lucas Formula FTW!!!

I still have 3 full bottle of the FoxFarm that I will likely never use now.


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## DRJAYNE (Apr 11, 2009)

permalink
 Could u please tell me what the [email protected] 7.0 conversion means..?? I use the lucas formula w/gh micro and the bloom.and does that flowering formula 0-8-16 come out to be about a tspn and a half of micro per gallon of water and the bloom is about a tblspn per gallon of water right??? I am using a 18 gallon resevoir which toppe off to bottom of netpots is right at 12 gal. So am i to add a tspn and a half per gal. And approx. A tblspn of bloom per gal.??? It seems to bring the ppm up to about 1500 ppm and this seems to high, what do u think or anyone about this?? Thanx


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## scrxbandit (Apr 18, 2009)

its good to know that theres a "formula" to what ive all ready been doing. Im using GH and chaching bloom enhancer, ph and tds corrected. 
Are you absolutely sure about removing the grow solution? I understand that if the plants are using less nitrogen than other nutes, youre going to get toxic nitrogen levels after a few weeks... prob harder to diagnose than nitrogen deficiency, but if its proven ima try and return this 2.5 gallon grow i just copped...


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## dankman02 (Jun 11, 2009)

can i use that formula with Botanicare 3 part ??


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## doogleef (Jun 11, 2009)

No. Different formula


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## notpatient (Jun 11, 2009)

Im sure you can, its the same formula, do yourself a favor and google ASK LUCAS its somewhere in the 1st 5 pages


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## Santos L Halper (Jun 11, 2009)

> Are you absolutely sure about removing the grow solution?


Yes, it has all the N they need. I use the Lucas formula with Floralicious Plus (N) (1 ml/gal) and Liquid Koolbloom (P-K) in weeks 2-4 (5 ml/gallon) and 5-6 (7.5 ml/gal). Both are GH products on the Keep it Simple Recirculating Program. Alone the ppm is ~1300, when I add Koolbloom and Floarilicious it can get up to ~1500. pH is 5.8, drifts up to 6.3 after a few days, that's when I top it and pH down back to 5.8. I have pics in my journal. I don't even know if I need the Floarialicious or not, I might try a cycle without and see what happens... I change the res every two weeks but Lucas adds nutes with addback water and changes once per cycle. 

Lucas Formula is nice because GH makes it simple. I plan on eventually stopping the Floralicious Plus and working with H2O2 instead.


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## whynot99 (Aug 18, 2009)

i grow in soil is the lucas formula used in soil too or just hp i dont understand it either yeah i know could someone explain it to me in laymans terms??


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## notpatient (Aug 20, 2009)

wow ,, this is the first time back in a month er so(dealing with a PS3 call of duty addiction) pray for me , please.
Im not sure of the complexities but the laymans is 8-16 which does not get you to your target 1300 ppm it more like 11-20 and Im there Ive used alot of nutes in my time under the artificial suns and Im sure its the easiest program Ive ever run Im sure my yields have doubled Ive altered the program a bit I change out my rez every 10 days and use grotec's H2o2 for 24hrs , I was really let until I realized that its got nothing to do with the size the density is almost crazy,, guys Im a grow dummy and Im ok with it but Ive got 50 in my AF60 and Im sure that its gonna be a good time 1300 and this time Im using a flavor additive like pineapple rush or grotec new line of tasties 

LUCAS FORMULA= good time


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## widow84 (Aug 22, 2009)

so by the lucas formula 0-8-16 - For Flowering cycle (12/12) G-M-B (Grow-Micro-Bloom) 

I should put 88 ml of micro and 176 of bloom in my 11 gal res ?


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## notpatient (Aug 22, 2009)

thats the ticket mi amigo hopefully that gets you to 1300 , I dont want to be insulting but wrap your brain around this if you google - ASK LUCAS- you can get all the needed info and then some just uh make a bag of popcorn or whatever trips your trigger and get the reading done sir or maam


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## widow84 (Aug 23, 2009)

thanks notpatient

I was just cheking if I was correct


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## notpatient (Aug 23, 2009)

glad I could be of some assistants


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## dregs (Aug 24, 2009)

I know this kinda goes against the point, but I am running Lucas in hempy and things seem to be going well... Has anyone ever had any luck with using any of the Bulking agents out there, if so, which?


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## Lifted1 (Aug 25, 2009)

Is the FloraNova a one part. do you need anything else? how many ml per gal of this stuff?

thx


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## Lifted1 (Aug 25, 2009)

as far "bulking" agents i use gravity and my nugz are super solid. 


however i run several different strains and the g13 i run is either a crap pheno or its a fluffy strain. i'm not keepin any of these genetics.

genetics are everything.


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## KusH 420 (Sep 18, 2009)

im very new to growing and this is the system i will be using with my hempy buckets

im wondering how to actually mix the nutes, could u just buy a gallon of RO water open the cap and pour the correct amount of nutes and just shake it to mix and just use that until it's gone letting it sit w/o doing anything to it

that is the way im percieving some of the info im getting, if i got this totally wrong please help me out

im also wondering when to start adding nutes to seedlings/babies


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## trouble9039 (Sep 29, 2009)

Is everyone still running the lucas mix? I was looking to swich over and have been doing some research on it and is it as good as it sound's? How are the yeild's from it?


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## doogleef (Sep 30, 2009)

Yes. Lucas formula is great.

The whole point to it is that yield is much more dependent on proper lighting, co2 levels and ventilation than nutrients. As long as you have a complete base nutrient that gives the plant everything it needs you don't need lots of magic sauce additives. 

Environment is everything.


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## trouble9039 (Sep 30, 2009)

Well that will work great for me then! I am gonna give it A try on the next batch.


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## vh13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Just got my GH flora bloom and flora micro hardwater and fed my young plants in hempy buckets with a light Lucas Formula.

I've brewed some great organic teas in the past, but I'm looking for a cleaner, easier solution indoors, especially something my girlfriend or a babysitter can handle.

Also, I'm gonna experiment with both cloning and bubble buckets for the first time. Tomatoes and basil will be the first cuttings.



KusH 420 said:


> could u just buy a gallon of RO water open the cap and pour the correct amount of nutes and just shake it to mix and just use that until it's gone letting it sit w/o doing anything to it


I'd like some words of experience on this one too. If I could mix up a big batch for use over a 1-2 week period that'd meet my goal of babysitter friendly.



KusH 420 said:


> im also wondering when to start adding nutes to seedlings/babies


After two to three weeks, starting with 1/4 strength is usually what I do.


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## Dr. VonDank (Oct 6, 2009)

Don't over think it.. The whole lucas formula is just basicly turning a three part nute into a twp part---easy!!!---


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## Woodland Dave (Oct 7, 2009)

I have been using the lucas formula for my first grow and it works great but if you only add 8 ml of micro and 16 ml of bloom you will only get a ppm of about 600. I've found that just keeping a 2 to 1 ratio of bloom to micro is the only thing you need to know. I have been increasing the ppm about a hundred a week and I have had no nute burn currently at 1000 ppm. My plants are about 9". I plan to top off at about 1400. My point is, I think the formula could be simplified by saying; keep a 2:1 ratio of bloom to micro. Measurements depends on your desired ppm. Correct me if I'm wrong, I am a new grower.


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## notpatient (Oct 11, 2009)

yea Ive always had trouble getting the 1300 hundred from the 8-16 ratio so I started with the 10-20 and I get there pretty quickly


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## doogleef (Oct 11, 2009)

When looking at PPM from this recipe you MUST consider the conversion of your meter. 8micro/16bloom with RO (optional unless you have bad tap water) should give you about 900-1000PPM on meters with a .5 conversion. On meters with a .7 conversion the same mix is closer to 1300. Don't overfeed or you will force the need to flush and possibly burn. 

As for mixing it up ahead of time ...Yes. Just put a small airstone in the bucket to keep the solution aerated if it is kept for more than a couple days.


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## fatman7574 (Oct 11, 2009)

Most American sold Conductivity meters are set up for a convesrion based upon a NaCl (sodium Chloride) calibration. i.e. If you put 0.5 grams of non-iodized table salt in a one liter measuring device and add distilled or RODI water untill] you reach the 1 liter mark and mix until all salt is dissolved you will get a reading of 1000 uS/cm or 1.00 mS/cm or 500 ppm or 500 mg/L for a reading. Essentailly they all mean the same thing. At least you should get one of the above readings if your meter is calibrated to your probe.


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## moash (Oct 17, 2009)

ok,i put technaflora in the calculator...the bloom is not much diff from the grow...just a lil more P and K
there flower solution came out to:N-183 P-79 K-341 Mg-39...that dont sound very good

if i do 8 boost and 16 bloom its:N-122 P-85 K-322 Mg-41.....but the ppms come to 850,thats a lil better but alot of K

i also noticed that magical is the same thing as the boost but with less N and no K...
so with an 8 magical and 16 bloom its:N-94 P-79 K-265 Mg-69
would it be ok to try this....im kinda skeptical since i have found nothing about technaflora and the lucas formula
does it matter if the ppm dont get to 1300 when using the lucas formula with diff nutes?????????


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## doogleef (Oct 20, 2009)

the "Lucas Formula" is specific to GH nutes. You can substitute in the AN 3-part and it is the same but techna is not part of the program. 

I love the fact that you are using the calculator to find a good mix of the nutes that you have available. That is what it is for.  way to grow!

As far as the PPM question goes you have to keep in mind that the PPM will vary from meter to meter depending on the conversion that the manufacturer uses or how it is configured. 

It has gotten to the point that i hardly use my meter at all anymore. I trust the nutes will come out to the same ppm and ph every time.


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## moash (Oct 20, 2009)

doogleef said:


> the "Lucas Formula" is specific to GH nutes. You can substitute in the AN 3-part and it is the same but techna is not part of the program.
> 
> I love the fact that you are using the calculator to find a good mix of the nutes that you have available. That is what it is for.  way to grow!
> 
> ...


 ok,could i use the formula mentioned above(the last one) since its close to the 100/100/200/60
im not sure what my meter measures to(.5;;;.7).....it doesnt say...the solution i use to calibrate says NaCl...whatever that is


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## doogleef (Oct 20, 2009)

NACL is .5. Your nute solution should be around 1000PPM.


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## KusH 420 (Nov 27, 2009)

KusH 420 said:


> im very new to growing and this is the system i will be using with my hempy buckets
> 
> im wondering how to actually mix the nutes, could u just buy a gallon of RO water open the cap and pour the correct amount of nutes and just shake it to mix and just use that until it's gone letting it sit w/o doing anything to it
> 
> that is the way im percieving some of the info im getting, if i got this totally wrong please help me out


can't believe, after 2 months, that there isn't an answer for this simple little question


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## moash (Nov 27, 2009)

KusH 420 said:


> can't believe, after 2 months, that there isn't an answer for this simple little question



i never noticed it....if i did i would have answered it
but anyways u r correct with ur assumptions,just dont let them sit too long.....if it smells raunchy,dont use it


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## strain stalker (Nov 27, 2009)

...Micro first (stir up good), then bloom (stir up good)...then ph adjust. Micro first to prevent lock up. Place a bubble stone in to keep oxygen mixed into solution.


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## KusH 420 (Nov 28, 2009)

moash said:


> i never noticed it....if i did i would have answered it
> but anyways u r correct with ur assumptions,just dont let them sit too long.....if it smells raunchy,dont use it


thank you for your reply

also, how long is to long?


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## KusH 420 (Nov 28, 2009)

strain stalker said:


> ...Micro first (stir up good), then bloom (stir up good)...then ph adjust. Micro first to prevent lock up. Place a bubble stone in to keep oxygen mixed into solution.


do u have to ph adjust if your using RO water?


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## fatman7574 (Nov 28, 2009)

Woodland Dave said:


> I have been using the lucas formula for my first grow and it works great but if you only add 8 ml of micro and 16 ml of bloom you will only get a ppm of about 600. I've found that just keeping a 2 to 1 ratio of bloom to micro is the only thing you need to know. I have been increasing the ppm about a hundred a week and I have had no nute burn currently at 1000 ppm. My plants are about 9". I plan to top off at about 1400. My point is, I think the formula could be simplified by saying; keep a 2:1 ratio of bloom to micro. Measurements depends on your desired ppm. Correct me if I'm wrong, I am a new grower.


 Lucas is just mixed in a ratio of two parts bl\oom to 1 part micro s you say. The ratio allways remains the same. The 0-18-9 is a ml ammount of each type Grow, Bloom Micro taht is the ml amounts Lucas uses with RO water to obtain the approx ximate EC he desires for that satge of plant growth. The ml amounts cahnge for the different satages of plant growth but the ratio of 2 to 1 always remains the same. 0-18-9 is not a mixing ratio it is a ml amount.

Yes simple observation and a law of mathematics shows that this is simply a ratio of 2:1 of bloom to micro. By mathmematicals law a ratio is always reduced by the highest factor to reduce to the lowest numerators. As both 16 and 8 cam be divided by 8 (largest common factor) they reduce to 2:1 or the lowest numerators. Simply said a two to one ratio means 4:2, 6:3, 8:4, 10:5, 18:9 etc, etc are all reduced to a 2 to 1 ratio. It is mathematically proper to say a ratio of 2:1. It is not mathematically proper to say a ratio of 18:9


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## fatman7574 (Nov 28, 2009)

KusH 420 said:


> im very new to growing and this is the system i will be using with my hempy buckets
> 
> im wondering how to actually mix the nutes, could u just buy a gallon of RO water open the cap and pour the correct amount of nutes and just shake it to mix and just use that until it's gone letting it sit w/o doing anything to it
> 
> ...


Mixing and storing nutes:

Bacteria will multiply over time, so it depends on the storage time, temperature and how often you open the bottle allowing more oxygen into the bottle. In laboratories the solution would initially be mixed as such. A beaker would be disinfected with chlorine and rinsed with water and then approximattely 60% or 70% of the total RO water amount would be poured into the beaker, then the known amount of nutrients would be added. The mixture would be stirred ina manner that would introduce as little air to the water as possible (slow, easy stirring). Now more RO water would be added to bring the total amount including nutrients to 1 gallon.

Preferably the nutrient water would not be stored in one large bottle but many smaller bottles. Each time you open a large bottle you are introducing more airborne contamination and oxygen to the reamaining solution. This new bacteria as well as the old bacteria can now grow due to the fe reshly introduced oxygen in the air. Cold just slows the growth it does not eliminate it. 

Bacterial growth in an oxygen free environment is a different bacteria than that in an environment with oxygen. Oxygen that grows in an oxygen free environment multiplies much slower and also requires much higher temperatures to multiply. 

With small bottles you use the entire amount each time and if filled to overflowing and refrigerated there should be only very, very small amounts of bactertial multiplication as the temp will be low and the oxygen will be limited to that dissolved in the water initially. 

The proper way to fill the bottles is to fill them to overflowing as this eliminates an airspace at the top of the bottle that would supply contaminants and oxygen.

*As the growing of pot in a typical grow room is much more forgiving than growing in a research laboratory where everything must be exacting and fully repeatable simply remove the amount of water equal to the amount you intend to add in ml of nutrients and add the nutrients one part at a time. It would be much better to use a rod of some fashion to stir the water nutrient mix rather than shaking so as to introduce less CO2 and O2 while mixing. If you are using it over a long term store it in a refrigerator.*


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## spagettiheady420 (Nov 28, 2009)

Wow, I feel the same way about general hydro nutes- I currently use this formula with Micro and Bloom from AN and its working really well. I will be starting a new grow journal soon>25 Odyssey from Blue Sky in Oakland.


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## moash (Nov 28, 2009)

KusH 420 said:


> thank you for your reply
> 
> also, how long is to long?



depends on how u store it.....
fatman explains in pretty good detail about this


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## Shrubs First (Dec 2, 2009)

If it works and you're ok with it, use it. But GH is the most digusting
nutrient provider out there today, I really can't believe there are people
praising this. In my eyes this is very amateur


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## tea tree (Dec 2, 2009)

gh rocks. I am using tapwater, without having to ph or dechlorinate, and having awesome results. I read the whole lucas thread at cannabis world a few times so far. It has a lot of good info any grower shud read. To date using the general hydro nute calculator for veg is pretty much what Lucas advocates and then when flipping to flower not doig a res change, merely adding in the topd off addback water 8/16 for hids or 5/10 for cfls is prefered over the gh formula which is to High in N, I also found. I prefer the scientifc nature of GH, the fact that they take care of magnesium issues which other companies do not and the fact that these are the nutes the astronauts use. It is also easy to make my own npk is I choose, just three or two tsp to get the npk on the bottle, although the gh nutes calcualtor and the lucas flower formula are built to give the right mineral amount. One should also note that by using the three part in veg less ph issues are observes as all three bottles are all made with buffers inside. 

I just read an article that showed off bio hydro and mineral hydro side by side and even tho it was all about the wonderful world of organic hydro the mineral hydro was amazing looking comapred the the organic which looked sickly and kind of dirty.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 2, 2009)

hydro is not meant for organic, it is meant for soil/soil-less.

Im not impressed by this, just because the plants look good
doesnt mean they arent being fed only synthesized garbage


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## tea tree (Dec 2, 2009)

I am not a veteran grower by any means. A year or so. In soil I establish a complete soil food web and use dry ferts and teas. It works great. The plant thrives. In hydro I like the idea of GH. IDK, seems smart.


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## fatman7574 (Dec 2, 2009)

Plants don't care whether the mineral powders used in chemical fertilizers are cleaned up and processed. Most hydroponic fertilizers are made for refined natural minerals extracted from rocks. Man just does in minutes or hours wghat nature does in years or centuries. If yo checked you would see soil ferto ilizers use more synthesized chemicals than most hydropmic formulatiom. Soil is just fine mimeral powders (rock dust) and hopefully some organic matter. Most soil fertilizers have a lot of man made urea which is entirely synthesized. Plus they use the same micronutrients such as chealted iron as used in hydro. Orgao inic fertilizers are full of mercury and salt as most contain fish that have fed on other foish that d fed on other fish etc and therefore the mercury levels are high. There are no perfect methods of growing as all are palagued with problems. You list as an Avatar Humbolt Fertilizers but if you actually look at the guranteed analysis on their products versus say GH they are no better nor worse than GH. Actually they are mainly alike with just some minor differences here and there.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 2, 2009)

Plants don't care, but the consumers do, you are what you eat,
in this case, smoke! I don't eat food that has been fed garbage, why
would I smoke it


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## Shrubs First (Dec 2, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> You list as an Avatar Humbolt Fertilizers but if you actually look at the guranteed analysis on their products versus say GH they are no better nor worse than GH. Actually they are mainly alike with just some minor differences here and there.


Very different in composition, Humboldt uses an all natural amino chelate, the same
chelates which are naturally found in the earth, no EDTA's and no unneccesary salts.


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## fatman7574 (Dec 2, 2009)

What ever turns your crank.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 2, 2009)

Hey man happy growing, smoke your chronic, I'm sure its bomb


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## fatman7574 (Dec 2, 2009)

No complaints.


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## cherrycherry (Jan 24, 2010)

hey what are peoples expierence with the end result of their Lucas Formula? Good taste good stuff? I am curently using botanicas CNS17 and that stuff is not too great its an all in one. I bought some clones Cherry AK and some Blue dream which each had potent smells when you rubbed the leaves a bit. Now that I have vegeded the plants a bit with my CNS they kind of smell more like grass plant really potent/oily plants. Just wondering if this Lucas system is the real deal or not compared to some of the organic alternatives or even stuff specifically made for growing such as Humboldt's products or AN Sensi series. I also heard this stuff is watered down??


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## fatman7574 (Jan 24, 2010)

Shrubs First said:


> Plants don't care, but the consumers do, you are what you eat,


Oh no, I am a vagina!  Ah, you don't know what your talking about. 

It takes many things to produce something good. I gurantee that good pot can be grown in many ways with many different types/sorts or combinations of nutrient sources. Period.


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## doogleef (Jan 24, 2010)

cherrycherry said:


> hey what are peoples expierence with the end result of their Lucas Formula? Good taste good stuff? I am curently using botanicas CNS17 and that stuff is not too great its an all in one. I bought some clones Cherry AK and some Blue dream which each had potent smells when you rubbed the leaves a bit. Now that I have vegeded the plants a bit with my CNS they kind of smell more like grass plant really potent/oily plants. Just wondering if this Lucas system is the real deal or not compared to some of the organic alternatives or even stuff specifically made for growing such as Humboldt's products or AN Sensi series. I also heard this stuff is watered down??


I've used it for years now. In reality it is a little light on Nitrogen but gets by on most strains. Soil or hydro?

I'm making the switch to dynagro.



fatman7574 said:


> Oh no, I am a vagina!  Ah, you don't know what your talking about.
> 
> It takes many things to produce something good. I gurantee that good pot can be grown in many ways with many different types/sorts or combinations of nutrient sources. Period.


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## Gixxerboy (Jan 27, 2010)

I have been reading in the dark here for a while now.I just had to register to thank u for the excellent post.The Lucas Formula is just what i have been looking for.I think you have managed to find out what i have been after for quite sometime now a simple nutrient solution.I have been using Technaflora products,but i'm just about to switch to General Hydro like u have suggested_._I just wanted to thank u again!


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## Gixxerboy (Jan 27, 2010)

doogleef said:


> I've used it for years now. In reality it is a little light on Nitrogen but gets by on most strains. Soil or hydro?
> 
> I'm making the switch to dynagro.


So you are switching from 
GH floranova Grow NPK:7-4-10 to
Dyna-Gro Liquid Grow NPK:7-9-5

The reason I ask is because you said that you have been using Lucas for years.I'm switching and it's time for me to buy nutrients.Dyna-Grow seems to be cost effective also, comming in cheaper than both systems from GH.


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## doogleef (Jan 27, 2010)

It's important to note that Lucas formula is based on FloraNovaBloom, not grow. The primary reason I switched to Dynagro was the lack of Nitrogen and Micros in the lucas blend. The 7-9-5 is a bit high in P for my tastes but I could not find the foliage-pro stuff that i really wanted. It is 9-3-6 (3-1-2)


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## Gixxerboy (Jan 27, 2010)

doogleef said:


> Cool. A Lucas thread!
> The updated preference is GH FloraNovaGrow.


Did you mean the updated preferance Gh FloraNovaBloom?Just trying to get my head around this.


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## doogleef (Jan 27, 2010)

Ah! Yes you are correct. That should read FloraNovaBLOOM


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## fatman7574 (Jan 28, 2010)

Preferably a ratios as doogleaf suggested works best in my opinion 3:1:2. Dyna-grow Foliage-Pro fits the bill. I do like a liitle more calcium and magnesium however. See this thread https://www.rollitup.org/nutrients/295437-methodical-scientific-approach-nutrients-nutrient.html


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## Gixxerboy (Jan 29, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> Preferably a ratios as doogleaf suggested works best in my opinion 3:1:2. Dyna-grow Foliage-Pro fits the bill. I do like a liitle more calcium and magnesium however. See this thread https://www.rollitup.org/nutrients/295437-methodical-scientific-approach-nutrients-nutrient.html


Thank You sir, I will give it a read.


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## fatman7574 (Jan 29, 2010)

doogleef said:


> Ah! Yes you are correct. That should read FloraNovaBLOOM


 The Lucas mixture is normally made with FloraMicro and Florabloom, not FloraNovaBloom. FloraNovaBloom is made with humus/fulvic acids. Neither of which are really very beneficial when used with chemical fertilizers. They are basically just natural chelators as used in the formulations. The chemical fertilizer already has chelaters (EDTA and/or EPTA) that work better with less problems.


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## doogleef (Jan 29, 2010)

The final effective NPKMgCa is the same at 8ml/gallon as the 8/16 2-part mix. Lucas uses it himself. Run the calculator. I agree the added humics/fulvics are worthless. Check out his Ask Lucas thread on another site if you need conformation.


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## fatman7574 (Jan 30, 2010)

doogleef said:


> The final effective NPKMgCa is the same at 8ml/gallon as the 8/16 2-part mix. Lucas uses it himself. Run the calculator. I agree the added humics/fulvics are worthless. Check out his Ask Lucas thread on another site if you need conformation.


Dude 8:16 is a two to one ratio. Two parts Florabloom to one part FloraMicro. Ratios are always giving in the lowest possible numbers. The 8 and 16 stand for ml not ratios. For example. 4:8, 16:32. 2:4. 6:12 are one to two ratios. The amount of one is always mixed at a rate of double the amount of the other. 

The numbers of 8:16 are the amounts need to pt rovide that certain TDS or EC. However if you wish a higher or lower EC you simply add tah the ratio of 1:2, not 1:3 or 1:4 etc. Basically the ratio 8:16 is 1:2. 1:2 is proper scientific or Math notation, but 8:16 is not proper m notation for a ratio. It is the notation for the volumetric ml amounts, not ratios. It all pretty much means the same, it is just not soecific in a scientific sense to d call a set of divsible numberas a ratio. Ratios are given in lowest possible terms. ie 1:2 not 8:16

Lucas "formula was introduced in the forums over 6 years ago, the FloraNova line do id not even exist until recently.


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## doogleef (Jan 30, 2010)

The point of telling people its 8micro 16 bloom is so they use a full strength nute. I understand what a ratio is. I'm saying that it is the same blend in 1 bottle. Run the calculator. Or go to the horse's mouth. http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=892



> The current Lucasized Formula with GH Flora is still 0-8-16 as you said. Other nutes, such as PBP can also be made to approximate similar NPKMg values, for example PBPBloom @ 15ml/gal plus 5ml/gal Cal Mag.., or 8ml/gal Flora Nova Bloom
> 
> Both with target TDS @.7 of about 1300ppm (use less FNB, like 6ml/gal if your TDS exceeds 1400 with 8ml)
> 
> ...


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## doogleef (Jan 30, 2010)

Dude. All i did was correct your inaccurate statement about the formula. No need to get asshurt.  The Thread is titled "Lucas Formula". Geez.


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## Gixxerboy (Feb 3, 2010)

Question going by the target of 100-100-200-60,and mixing your own nuts no matter the amount of different products.Let's say you hit close to your target but only have a ppm of 500 and not a high ppm like 1000 (.5 conv).Would this be enough ppm if the levels are optimal?


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## doogleef (Feb 4, 2010)

According to Lucas, both the blend and the concentration are important. The only way this formula works without additives is at "full strength". The reason for that is the low N in the mix. Gotta supply enough total salts to meet the low end of the N needs. 

If you are mixing you own nutes I would definitely up the Nitrogen by 50%. Contrary to popular belief the N uptake goes UP in the first 3-4 weeks of flower before dropping off after the "stretch". Feed em enough N during that time and you will be much better off.


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## Gixxerboy (Feb 4, 2010)

doogleef said:


> According to Lucas, both the blend and the concentration are important. The only way this formula works without additives is at "full strength". The reason for that is the low N in the mix. Gotta supply enough total salts to meet the low end of the N needs.
> 
> If you are mixing you own nutes I would definitely up the Nitrogen by 50%. Contrary to popular belief the N uptake goes UP in the first 3-4 weeks of flower before dropping off after the "stretch". Feed em enough N during that time and you will be much better off.


Thank You, for the excellent reply.


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## j wizzle (Feb 4, 2010)

lucas formula is 8-16 to get you to the proper PPM levels using RO water.... the 2:1 ratio is also correct. i have a large res and all my plants are linked into a drain system. i drain all the water into the res, refill with RO water, then use a 2:1 ratio until i get up to the proper PPM level i want. 

i dont use an add back caculator or anything like that. just do yourself a favor and get a nice meter. i know how much formula is needed to raise my PPM up by 100 or so, so i just read the PPM, add the nutes i need, mix it up and pump the formula back into my buckets.


and this formula is GREAT. super easy, great results everytime.

ive had 1 bad yeild using this formula....MY AIR PUMP FAILED. i think the environment is what matters most. 


i get around a pound from each 600w light using this formula. good flush for final 10 days, good yeilds, buds taste great and are huge. i think its strain and genetics more than any additive that determines how dense your bud is


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## Gixxerboy (Apr 10, 2010)

sealfever42 said:


> The lucas formula is normally intended for use with RO or near 0 PPM water.
> 
> 
> Calculated EC/TDS levels:
> ...


Been working with the lucas using FloraNova Bloom now for a grow.My problem is with the ml per gal.He states you should use 8ml to 9ml per gal of Nova bloom.With a ppm .5 conversion of 947.You will not be able to achieve 947 at 8ml or 9ml.

8ml Flora Nova Bloom N-P-K-MG
127-110-184-63 ppm 676

9ml 142-124-207-71 ppm 760

10ml 158-138-230-79 ppm 845

11.2ml 177-154-257-89 ppm 947

But to actually achieve the 947 targeted ppm you will need to run 11.2 ml with N-P-K ratios way higher than the suggested target of 127-110-184-63.So are the N-P-K targets the standard to follow by Lucas or are the targeted PPMs?


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## GreenThumbSucker (Apr 10, 2010)

Gixxerboy said:


> Been working with the lucas using FloraNova Bloom now for a grow.My problem is with the ml per gal.He states you should use 8ml to 9ml per gal of Nova bloom.With a ppm .5 conversion of 947.You will not be able to achieve 947 at 8ml or 9ml.The bottle states 10ml proper dosage.
> 
> 8ml Flora Nova Bloom N-P-K-MG
> 127-110-184-63 ppm 676
> ...


In the US PPM meters are calibrated for .7. If you are using a .5 meter you can easily convert to .7. All you do is divide your meter reading by 5, then multiply the result by 7.

On a .5 meter, every 500 ppm is 700 ppm on a .7 meter. Thus 1000 PPM on a .5 meter is 1400 on a .7 meter. For lucas, 900 ppm is perfect with a .5 meter. 

You can google your particular meter to see what conversion it uses, .5 or .7.


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## Gixxerboy (Apr 10, 2010)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> In the US PPM meters are calibrated for .7. If you are using a .5 meter you can easily convert to .7. All you do is divide your meter reading by 5, then multiply the result by 7.
> 
> On a .5 meter, every 500 ppm is 700 ppm on a .7 meter. Thus 1000 PPM on a .5 meter is 1400 on a .7 meter. For lucas, 900 ppm is perfect with a .5 meter.
> 
> You can google your particular meter to see what conversion it uses, .5 or .7.


Thanks GTS never knew that conversion before.I'm Using a BlueLab meter .5 conversion.I have not been able to hit 947ppm at 8ml to get their I must run 11ml which comes acording to the nut calculator at a much higher range than the targeted NPK.I was having deficiencies with the low ec at 8ml so,uped it to 11ml to hit the 950ppm mark to try and stop them.


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## fatman7574 (Apr 10, 2010)

True ppm is based upon the actual concentratiom of the mg/liter of salts added to the nutrient solution. EC converted to ppm is only an approximation based upon pottasium chloride with a conversion factor averaged to 0.50 or to a 422 conversion averaged out to 0.70.

The International Conversion for EC meters is based upon Potassium Chloride (KCl). That conversion factor is 0.50 to 0.57., so an average of 0.50 is used . Some TDS not EC meters use a Sodium Chloride conversion factor which is an averaged 0.50. There is also a conversion factor called the 442 conversion fcator. It is based upon a solution made up of 40% Sodium bicarbonate, 40% Sodium Sulfate and 20% and an average of 0.70 is used. This 442 conversion factor is suppose to simulate natural waters such as lake, river and well water.

As you see these conversion factors do not take into account all salts thet y are absed upon an EC meter being used on drinking water.

Read this thread for a better understanding.

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/166514-ppm-ec-cf-aeroponics-help.html


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## DankBudzzz (Apr 12, 2010)

For two weeks old seedlings starting their first nutes using GH Flora micro and Flora Bloom what should I be adding per gallon of tap water. Thanks.


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## CLOSETGROWTH (Apr 13, 2010)

DankBudzzz said:


> For two weeks old seedlings starting their first nutes using GH Flora micro and Flora Bloom what should I be adding per gallon of tap water. Thanks.


Give em 0-8-16 ml per gallon


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## Gixxerboy (Apr 17, 2010)

Thanks Fman,Question, I have noticed with NovaBloom you have to ph adjust pretty much twice a day.The pH up is adding 20ppm to the solution,give or take 40ppm a day.If you started off with a target EC of 950 and top off with fresh water to the original level mid week ,then addback food to the original EC of 950.Should you take into account lets say for example 40 ppm ph up increase a day twice a day brings the total ppm of pH up for 5 days to 200 ppm.So win trying to achieve the original 950 should it actually now at mid week be 1150 taking the 200 ppm of pH up into account?Anyone?


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## snutter (Apr 21, 2010)

I've been using the lucas formula for almost a year now. I grow 2 different strains, white rhino and a bagseed Indica strain of unknown origin but KILLER pot.  During veg I use super thrive. When I move the plants to flower, I stop the super thrive and use epsom salt. That's it and that's all. And I can say this: My plants do VERY well. They stay a dark healthy green from beginning to end. The buds are big, well developed, with excellent trich production. I personally couldn't be happier with the results I've acheived with the Lucas Formula and the two additives I mentioned. It's nothing fancy, and actually quite simple, but very very effective. I doubt that I will change any thing I do. I'm quite happy with the results I get from using this simple method. Also, I love the low cost of only having to buy 2 bottles of nutes. Nutes can get so damn expensive...

I have 2 grow albums with lots of pics of my plants from beginning to end. Click on my avatar and check out my plants if you have any doubts as to how well the lucas formula can work...

Good luck to you all, and happy growing... I hope you have huge healthy plants yielding massive harvests, often!!! 

-S


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## Gixxerboy (Apr 28, 2010)

Thanks for the info S,I went with Nova to start lucas off,but I'm quickly finding out that I should have went with the 2 part flora series,one Nova is very hard to shake up when the bottle is full or brand new,witch makes getting a consecutive blend very hard.Not as flexible in adjusting the NPK ratios.Cant seem to hit the targeted ppm foretold with the preset amounts witch probably falls again on not being able to blend properly.Nova stains everything it touches including meters and such.The constant PH drop is also annoying. Almost to the end run with the girls and still cant seem to shake the deficiency's.But i will never give up until i have non deficient plants.Then I can catch cancer and die happy.


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## justparanoid (May 11, 2010)

Subbed this is a great thread


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## PeaceLuvPot (May 12, 2010)

CLOSETGROWTH said:


> Give em 0-8-16 ml per gallon


I know this is way too late to help the person that asked, but Lucas actually recommends 1/2 the normal dosage for seedlings for the first few weeks, so that would be 0-4-8. I just started a grow and am starting with 0-4-8 for 2 weeks. But I do have a question.

I planned on using the add back method with nutes, and hoped to avoid res changes thru my grow. Being at 0-4-8, how do I up that level to 0-8-16 without doing a res change. I read its bad to add nutes right to the res, so how do I effectively double my nutes in an already full res when I am ready. Can't figure that part out yet.


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## fatman7574 (May 15, 2010)

Whoa. Just remove a quart or so of water (in each of two containers) out of the reservoir and add your Part A nutrients to one and your Part B nutrients to the other. Pour each in slowly in an area where there is good water movement such as over an airstone or a water pump entrance or exit. Or stir by hand while slowly adding them one at a time.


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## srryan2 (Jun 12, 2010)

so do you start clones out at 8-16-MB?


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## Gixxerboy (Jun 20, 2010)

srryan2 said:


> so do you start clones out at 8-16-MB?


http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=892

You can lean a lot here form the man himself.


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## Artificial emotion (Nov 9, 2010)

Can a mod edit the original post, since the Lucas Formula is NOT different in veg and bloom? If you type 'Lucas Formula' into Google, this is one of the top hits and is obviously going to spread misinformation amongst people Googling it who don't know any better.


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## dadio161 (Nov 10, 2010)

Why do say this is wrong ? Everywhere I have looked says the same thing .


Artificial emotion said:


> Can a mod edit the original post, since the Lucas Formula is NOT different in veg and bloom? If you type 'Lucas Formula' into Google, this is one of the top hits and is obviously going to spread misinformation amongst people Googling it who don't know any better.


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## moash (Nov 10, 2010)

Artificial emotion said:


> Can a mod edit the original post, since the Lucas Formula is NOT different in veg and bloom? If you type 'Lucas Formula' into Google, this is one of the top hits and is obviously going to spread misinformation amongst people Googling it who don't know any better.


the lucas formula is a 1:2 ratio whether u have low output lights or hid's
the info is correct,it just may be worded wrong is some areas


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## Artificial emotion (Nov 16, 2010)

No, it is wrong. The first post says that you use a different ratio, 0/5/10 for veg than you do for flower, 0/8/16. This is wrong, as under HIDs, you use 0/8/16 throughout, both in veg and flower. This is what Lucas said himself:



> *Low light ratio, and flowering vs veg*
> 
> Lucas Formula should be used in the same ratio throughout the grow. There is a misconception that one should use 5ml of Micro and 10ml of Bloom, when in veg, and switch to 8ml of Micro, and 16ml of Bloom, when flowering.
> This was never stated by Lucas himself. He originally stated that the 0-5-10 ratio was for LOW LIGHT situations (fluorescent lighting like PL/L and CFLs, or HID lamps less than 400W), whereas 0-8-16 is for medium to high light (400W+)


On the first page of this thread it says use differently in veg and bloom.


Although 0/5/10 might be the same ratio of 1:2 as 0/8/16, they're not the same.


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## moash (Nov 16, 2010)

they r the same....one is just weaker
normally one would sstart out with low output lights,hence to start out with the weaker solution
it is good advice reguardless...one should always start with a weaker solution before going strong
go ahead and pump it full strength and post back with ur results,everybody grows differently


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## Artificial emotion (Nov 16, 2010)

moash said:


> they r the same....one is just weaker
> normally one would sstart out with low output lights,hence to start out with the weaker solution
> it is good advice reguardless...one should always start with a weaker solution before going strong
> go ahead and pump it full strength and post back with ur results,everybody grows differently


Not wishing to sound like I'm trying to critisize your response for no reason, but have you actually tried using 0/8/16 rather than 0/5/10? Lucas himself says using 0/5/10 is a misconception, as the quote says and I'm doing a grow now and 0/8/16 definitly is not too strong. It can even be used from seed, so it's not too strong for the actual vegetative stage, never mind the seedling stage. 

I'm basing what I'm saying on what Lucas himself said. Straight from the horse's mouth, as it were.

I'm not talking about CFLs/low output lights. I tried to make it clear that I'm not disputing that 0/5/10 is used with CFLs - I said that. It's the vegetative stage under HIDs that I'm referring to. 0/8/16 is to be used throughout under these lights. With the original advice, people will think they have to have 0/5/10 in veg and 0/8/16 in flower, which isn't right.


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## Artificial emotion (Nov 16, 2010)

*Once again, Lucas stated:*

*



Low light ratio, and flowering vs veg

Click to expand...

*


> Lucas Formula should be used in the same ratio throughout the grow. There is a misconception that one should use 5ml of Micro and 10ml of Bloom, when in veg, and switch to 8ml of Micro, and 16ml of Bloom, when flowering.
> This was never stated by Lucas himself. He originally stated that the 0-5-10 ratio was for LOW LIGHT situations (fluorescent lighting like PL/L and CFLs, or HID lamps less than 400W), whereas 0-8-16 is for medium to high light (400W+)


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## Weedler (Nov 16, 2010)

Another reason why I am switching to Canna after this grow. I used 5-10 ratio during veg = 650 PPM which was great for my ladies 8-16 in bloom because I went to a higher output light (T5 to 400W HPS) so 8-16 gave me 900 PPM (250PPM = Tap water) so for me the formula worked out my ladies start burning with a PPM above 1000. Perhaps once I get my R/O setup later this week I can play with clones and see how they respond.


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## TweedleD (Jan 16, 2011)

Easy all, i know there is shedloads of info on this formula out there, i have read this whole thread and the Ask Lucas one, but im quite well medicated and have confused myself a hell of a lot and its frustrating me. I hope you understand and somebody can answer my questions.

-My tap water PPM is 300 0.5scale
-0:8:16 in 1gallon, would i in theory need 1300PPM due to my tap water being 300?
-My Waterfarm holds 9 litres, thats 2 gallons, would i have 0:8:16 for the first week as it is a seedling, and then switch to 0:16:32 after the plant has grown a bit?
-Can i use this formula in soil? Light-Mix to be specific?

Thanks in advance!


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## TweedleD (Jan 17, 2011)

Anybody able to help?


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## bestbuds09 (Jan 17, 2011)

I've used this formula in soil and soiless mix. The results where amazing, I love lucas formula. If I remember correctly Istarted using it @ 2 and 4 @ halfgallon and then moved up to 5 and 10 and they loved it. But it does not mean that every one will get the same results but for mines it worked wonders.

And for seedling I would simly use the regular three part formula @ 1/4 strenght and when she gets big enough switch it to lucas formula and you won't have no problems at all.


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## shredder69 (Mar 19, 2011)

Im using 0-8-16 - For Flowering cycle (12/12) and my ppm meter is measuring about 700 ppm is it normal ?
Im using tap water and its about 80 ppm. My ppm meter is a cheap ebay one, so it might be the meter ...


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## roc Eazy (Mar 30, 2011)

sealfever42 said:


> general hydroponics flora series feeding strategy - lucas formula
> 
> g-m-b (grow-micro-bloom)
> 0-5-10 - for vegetative cycle (18/6)
> ...


this is good info; do i necessarily have to let my water sit for 3-4 days be changing my hydro resv. Do i need to let it sit for days and then add the nutes.. Or does it really matter... Time whole time thing? Thnx in advance


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## wyteberrywidow (Mar 30, 2011)

Yes i will try this in a hydro dwc system


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## Shadydude (Apr 15, 2011)

How does this Lucas Formula work with Organic Soil?


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## deezy305 (May 23, 2011)

snutter said:


> I've been using the lucas formula for almost a year now. I grow 2 different strains, white rhino and a bagseed Indica strain of unknown origin but KILLER pot.  During veg I use super thrive. When I move the plants to flower, I stop the super thrive and use epsom salt. That's it and that's all. And I can say this: My plants do VERY well. They stay a dark healthy green from beginning to end. The buds are big, well developed, with excellent trich production. I personally couldn't be happier with the results I've acheived with the Lucas Formula and the two additives I mentioned. It's nothing fancy, and actually quite simple, but very very effective. I doubt that I will change any thing I do. I'm quite happy with the results I get from using this simple method. Also, I love the low cost of only having to buy 2 bottles of nutes. Nutes can get so damn expensive...
> 
> I have 2 grow albums with lots of pics of my plants from beginning to end. Click on my avatar and check out my plants if you have any doubts as to how well the lucas formula can work...
> 
> ...


so im planning to give the lucas a try. so should i just use micro and bloom? or micro and bloom w/other additives?


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## lowdime (Jun 4, 2011)

deezy305 said:


> so im planning to give the lucas a try. so should i just use micro and bloom? or micro and bloom w/other additives?


*Can I use additives with Lucas Formula?*

You may. It is recommended that you do not introduce additives until your setup is dialed in. After you've ironed out any deficiencies and fully understand how your plant and strain likes to be fed, feel free to begin using additives (such as Floralicious) - not that the additives will help. For increased quality and yield, focus on good genetics, and ample light and temperature control, rather than trying to compensate for those with additives.


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## lowdime (Jun 4, 2011)

plus has anyone used the maxibloom formula?


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## Martyshoemaker024 (Jun 24, 2011)

In theory, if my aero system has 36 sites I can do a perpetual grow with only one system because the nutes are always going to be around 1000-1400 weather it is a rooted clone or a plant that is finishing up its week 8 of flowering and there is no need for a flush. Is this info all correct?


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## Martyshoemaker024 (Jul 3, 2011)

Bump bump bump please someone tell me if this is makes sense before I do it ^


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## drgreentm (Jul 4, 2011)

Martyshoemaker024 said:


> In theory, if my aero system has 36 sites I can do a perpetual grow with only one system because the nutes are always going to be around 1000-1400 weather it is a rooted clone or a plant that is finishing up its week 8 of flowering and there is no need for a flush. Is this info all correct?


yes you could do a perpetual with this formula as it is the same throughout all of flower so you could introduce early flowering clones in as often as you want, i use the lucas formula but not in full just as a base guideline some of my strains will show deficiencies so i have to go a bit stronger than recommended.


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## Martyshoemaker024 (Jul 4, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> yes you could do a perpetual with this formula as it is the same throughout all of flower so you could introduce early flowering clones in as often as you want, i use the lucas formula but not in full just as a base guideline some of my strains will show deficiencies so i have to go a bit stronger than recommended.


Thank you Drgreen, could you tell me more about the deficiencies you noticed so that I may have a heads up before/if it happens to me. I am growing Platinum Og Kush in Aeroponics.


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## drgreentm (Jul 4, 2011)

so far i have ran white widow and bubba kush on this formula. the ww i had great results with and the bubbas where yellowing badly so i added some calmag and upped the micro to 10ml per gal and dropped the bloom to 15ml per gallon and it killed the problem leaves returned to very dark green and havent had a problem since, but again this so far is only with the bubbas the ww's run fine on the 8-16 formula so it just all depends on strain i guess.


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## Detroitgrower313 (Jul 4, 2011)

thanks.i keep forgettimg to look this up?


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## Martyshoemaker024 (Jul 5, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> so far i have ran white widow and bubba kush on this formula. the ww i had great results with and the bubbas where yellowing badly so i added some calmag and upped the micro to 10ml per gal and dropped the bloom to 15ml per gallon and it killed the problem leaves returned to very dark green and havent had a problem since, but again this so far is only with the bubbas the ww's run fine on the 8-16 formula so it just all depends on strain i guess.


Ok, I'm going to be running the FloraNova 8ml so if I see some yellowing I should add a lil calmag


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## hooked.on.ponics (Jul 6, 2011)

Don't forget you can run the AN 3 part on the Lucas formula if you want to upgrade nutes.

And their new 3 part (Jungle Juice iirc) is supposed to be almost a clone of GH's, so it would work too I imagine.


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## Fishyhead01 (Aug 21, 2011)

I was undecided for my first grow on the nutes. This past week has been setup week. I'm going DWC, two 6 pot tubs and a res in a 4x4 tent. 

I had already ph'd my RO water when after purchasing GH micro & bloom I read I dont need to ph adjust. 

My seeds are presently germing and will be planted tomorrow. I will do a complete res/water change in 7-10 days. 

If I add 1/4 nutes now, 12-6 hrs before planting seeds, should I expect to need to PH down before the plant? There will be a constant drizzle of aerated water on the rock wool.


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## karmeron (Aug 21, 2011)

You would need to check the PH with a meter every few days. In my experience with those nutes you do need to adjust every now and then, also the more nutes you use (to a point) the less adjustments need to be made, so if your using 1/4 strength you will probably need to adjust. To be on the safe side check it with a ph meter.


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## BlueBuds (Aug 26, 2011)

after all this reading tonight. i am finally inspired to use the lucas formula.

thanks everyone!


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## hooked.on.ponics (Sep 1, 2011)

Fishyhead01 said:


> I had already ph'd my RO water when after purchasing GH micro & bloom I read I dont need to ph adjust.


You do have to adjust pH with General Hydroponics. It's the new Advanced Nutrients that doesn't have to be adjusted.



Fishyhead01 said:


> If I add 1/4 nutes now, 12-6 hrs before planting seeds, should I expect to need to PH down before the plant? There will be a constant drizzle of aerated water on the rock wool.


If you're just germinating the seeds you don't want to feed them. Wait until the first true leaves appear before you start giving them nutes. Until that time they're running off stored energy from the seed and giving them nutes will burn the hell out of them.


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## boodadood (Sep 1, 2011)

has anyone experienced weird bud smell and taste after using GH LF? ive used it twice now in hydro and a buddy of mine has used it a few times with coco and we keep getting the same aftertaste/smell...its like a stinky whore's locker at the ymca in harlem smell...anyone? flushed them shits for 2 weeks...anyway, i just made the switch over to technaflora recipe for success...we'll see what happens


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## aeroman (Sep 9, 2011)

boodadood said:


> has anyone experienced weird bud smell and taste after using GH LF? ive used it twice now in hydro and a buddy of mine has used it a few times with coco and we keep getting the same aftertaste/smell...its like a stinky whore's locker at the ymca in harlem smell...anyone? flushed them shits for 2 weeks...anyway, i just made the switch over to technaflora recipe for success...we'll see what happens


ur definitely not the only 1

i had the same problem
if the technaflora doesnt do as good as u want try some advanced nutrients

thats what i switched to and i havent had another problem since


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## boodadood (Sep 9, 2011)

thanks for letting me know im not the only one out there...i was gonna try the AN but my local shop doesnt carry it n i didnt wanna go online for it...but i may just have to in the future


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## hugetom80s (Sep 20, 2011)

AN is well worth it IMHO.


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## homebrewer (Sep 20, 2011)

Looks like the AN reps are hard at work in this thread  .


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## lordjin (Sep 21, 2011)

chunkdaddyo said:


> Can anyone tell me if I can change to the Lucas Formula in mid grow? I have been using Flora Nova Grow and now Bloom ( both by GH ).Things seem to growing well with the FloraNova except there is alot of undissolved matter in the bottom of reservoir. I hear that the GH FloraMicro/FloraGrow dissolves more fully. If I do change, should I use GH Florakleen for a day or two before changing? Any help would be appreciated.


I think that would be fine. How far along are your plants?

Edit:

Oh, never mind. If you're already in flower, your plants are already used to drinking that formula. I wouldn't do it.


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## lordjin (Sep 21, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Looks like the AN reps are hard at work in this thread  .


I can assure you I'm not an AN rep. Just too damned sexy.


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## homebrewer (Sep 21, 2011)

lordjin said:


> I can assure you I'm not an AN rep. Just too damned sexy.


 Oh no, not you, I was talking about Hugetoms and Aeroman.


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## lordjin (Sep 21, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Oh no, not you, I was talking about Hugetoms and Aeroman.


Right. If anything, I'm likelier to be accused of being a GH rep. I'm doing the AN Sensi thing for my next so will be conducting an impartial comparison. I think RIU deserves a real comparison from a real person.

edit:

Your user avatar is hilarious btw.

edit again:

Oh wait, you're the one who did those Dyna Grow comparisons, right? I'll cruise your threads.


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## homebrewer (Sep 21, 2011)

lordjin said:


> Right. If anything, I'm likelier to be accused of being a GH rep. I'm doing the AN Sensi thing for my next so will be conducting an impartial comparison. I think RIU deserves a real comparison from a real person.


Comparisons are very helpful to the community, even when they don't turn out like you hope (which was the case with my first test where my beloved GH got beat by my current line). I also featured Connoisseur in my second comparison and the results are in my sig. I found Connoisseur to be a pretty poor performer considering how expensive it is, subbed for your results with sensi.


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## lordjin (Sep 21, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Comparisons are very helpful to the community, even when they don't turn out like you hope (which was the case with my first test where my beloved GH got beat by my current line). I also featured Connoisseur in my second comparison and the results are in my sig. I found Connoisseur to be a pretty poor performer considering how expensive it is, subbed for your results with sensi.


Very interesting and informative. Thank you.


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## GHOPZZ (Nov 3, 2011)

Can u use the Lucas formula in Promix BX? Could I get away with just giving my plants 8ML of Flora Nova Bloom the whole grow?


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## RL420 (Nov 4, 2011)

GHOPZZ said:


> Can u use the Lucas formula in Promix BX? Could I get away with just giving my plants 8ML of Flora Nova Bloom the whole grow?



"The current Lucasized Formula with GH Flora is still 0-8-16 as you said. Other nutes, such as PBP can also be made to approximate similar NPKMg values, for example PBPBloom @ 15ml/gal plus 5ml/gal Cal Mag.., or 8ml/gal Flora Nova Bloom

Both with target TDS @.7 of about 1300ppm (use less FNB, like 6ml/gal if your TDS exceeds 1400 with 8ml)" -lucas


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## GHOPZZ (Nov 4, 2011)

So can I use it in Promix, or foxfarm soil, the lucas formula??


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## RL420 (Nov 4, 2011)

GHOPZZ said:


> So can I use it in Promix, or foxfarm soil, the lucas formula??


no idea man, cant advise.


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## RL420 (Nov 4, 2011)

i think the ppm's would be too high for soil, could be wrong though. I would just use the feeding directions on the back of the bottles.


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## GHOPZZ (Nov 4, 2011)

What way would work best for hempy buckets? Original Lucas Formula or flora nova bloom at 8ML ? Do I need to use Cal-Mag with hempy buckets ? If so how much?


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## RL420 (Nov 4, 2011)

GHOPZZ said:


> What way would work best for hempy buckets? Original Lucas Formula or flora nova bloom at 8ML ? Do I need to use Cal-Mag with hempy buckets ? If so how much?


I've never personally did a hempy bucket grow, but i believe the FNB is more cost effective as well as giving the plant EVERYTHING it needs. FNB has cal and mag in it.


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## GHOPZZ (Nov 4, 2011)

Thanks for your help, can i use Poland spring water or distilled water when using the lucas formula?? cant afford a RO machine right now. Do brita filters for tap water work??


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## toerte (Nov 6, 2011)

Hi 
This is my first time using the aeroponic system. In the third week of the blooming phase, my leaves started yellowing. Assuming this meant the nitrogen was low, I started looking for a solution. Thats when I found the Lucas formula and thought it looked like he really knew what he was talking about. 



View attachment 1873664


My PPM is between 700-840 @.7 conversion. Im in Europe and am not sure Im doing it correctly. Im using a water filtering process we call osmose. This means the water goes in at EC .06 and comes out at .00. I am not sure if the chemicals are the same here. I have Flora Micro NPK 5-0-1, Flora Gro NPK 3-1-7 and Flora Bloom NPK 0-5-4. Ive used the formula of 0-8-6. Since we dont use gallons here, I converted my 40L of filtered water and came up with 10.5 gallons. That meant I added 0-84.5-169. What do I need to do to get my PPM up to the proper level?
Thanks very much for you help.


View attachment 1873666


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## nicedreamz (Nov 6, 2011)

1 Gal =3.78 liters.. so times that by 10.5 gets you 39.69... times that by 16 =640ml for bloom half that for the micro. I'm sure you're adding the micro first then the bloom? FWIW i add cal mag when using the lucas, i also use a little bit of grow until 2nd wk of flower. From what i see looks like you could use some N. I also noticed you said 0-8-6? 
Was that a typo? It's 0-8-16


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## toerte (Nov 6, 2011)

Yes, that was a typo. Thanks. I think you are multiplying the formula per liter rather than gallons. The 16 is the ratio per gallon, so I need to multiply it by the conversion from gallons to liters and therefore the 10.5 rather than the 40
, right? Do you have any advice about the PPM?


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## nicedreamz (Nov 6, 2011)

toerte said:


> Yes, that was a typo. Thanks. I think you are multiplying the formula per liter rather than gallons. The 16 is the ratio per gallon, so I need to multiply it by the conversion from gallons to liters and therefore the 10.5 rather than the 40
> , right? Do you have any advice about the PPM?


LOL i always have sucked at math... Yes 10.5 X 16= bloom 168 and half for micro. Are you using micro first? I get 960ish


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## GHOPZZ (Nov 7, 2011)

can you go with distilled water or poland spring water for lucas formula if you cant get a osm machine?? arent they really expensive


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## mile.high (Nov 7, 2011)

Many bottled water companies sell RO water, just look at the labels. I just use Safeway Brand "Refreshe"


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## GHOPZZ (Nov 8, 2011)

I thought i read that you can use distilled water with the lucas formula? just was seeing if that was right??


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## moash (Nov 8, 2011)

GHOPZZ said:


> I thought i read that you can use distilled water with the lucas formula? just was seeing if that was right??


yes you can....


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## GHOPZZ (Nov 15, 2011)

I have looked into new nutes, and i think im going with maxibloom 1tsp per a gallon of water, now do I add the maxibloom every time i water? and distilled water is ok with these nutes? and has anyone else used these nutes and have had success??


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## moash (Nov 15, 2011)

water with only water(distilled is fine)
Add the nutrients once a week using the equation


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## GHOPZZ (Nov 16, 2011)

Now will I need to add a supplement like dyna grow's Protekt, because the Maxibloom in distiller water lowers the PH of the water? If so how much Protekt? 1-2ml and can they be mixed together?


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## GHOPZZ (Nov 18, 2011)

anyone? if i use distilled water will i have cal problems?


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## moash (Nov 18, 2011)

GHOPZZ said:


> anyone? if i use distilled water will i have cal problems?


http://www.genhydro.com/genhydro_US/product_labels/maxibloom_1.5lb.pdf 
from the looks of the analysis it has calcium and magnesium in it,so no you will not have C or Mg def unless its brought on by nutrient antagonism or out of range ph....
It is missing some micro nutrients though,so IDK how that will work out


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## Lucius Vorenus (Dec 13, 2011)

moash said:


> water with only water(distilled is fine)
> Add the nutrients once a week using the equation


Fuck all that. Feed and water everytime. Too much hassle to water once, feed once, water once, feed once.


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## hooked.on.ponics (Jan 3, 2012)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> Fuck all that. Feed and water everytime. Too much hassle to water once, feed once, water once, feed once.


 That's horrible advice. Can you feed every watering? Yes. Can you do it without burning the holy hell out of your plants? Sure, if you know what you're doing. But the fact is that it is VERY EASY to overfeed and burn your plants if you do that. There is a reason virtually every good grower advises to alternate feeding with plain pH'd water, and that's because it's much simpler and therefore much less likely to screw up your plants. I'd bet you it results in better root development too.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Jan 4, 2012)

hooked.on.ponics said:


> That's horrible advice. Can you feed every watering? Yes. Can you do it without burning the holy hell out of your plants? Sure, if you know what you're doing. But the fact is that it is VERY EASY to overfeed and burn your plants if you do that. There is a reason virtually every good grower advises to alternate feeding with plain pH'd water, and that's because it's much simpler and therefore much less likely to screw up your plants. I'd bet you it results in better root development too.


Every single great grower eh? Did you go and ask them all or something?


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## hooked.on.ponics (Jan 19, 2012)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> Every single great grower eh? Did you go and ask them all or something?


Don't twist my words.

I said - exactly - "virtually every good grower".

"virtually every" is not the same as "every". "good" is not the same as "great".


If you think even a significant percentage of growers that would qualify as being worthy of "good" (or "great", it doesn't really matter) actually recommend feeding every watering while growing in soil, prove it. Show us a significant number of such recommendations.

I base my claim - which I very clearly and specifically qualified by saying "virtually every" rather than "every" - on the following personal observations:

1. Limiting the sample to growers whom I personally consider to have knowledge and skill equal to or greater than my own.
2. Limiting the sample to growers that have experience growing in soil.
3. Limiting the sample to growers that have given advice specifically about how to feed plants grown in soil.

Under those conditions I cannot think of a SINGLE instance where someone advised feeding every watering.
Since I am not a moron, and therefore aware that things exist outside my knowledge, I chose to say "virtually every" out of acknowledgement for the possibility that someone worthy of respect made such a recommendation that I haven't seen.

Regardless, I stand by my statement that a vast majority, if not every good/great grower will recommend that people feed every other watering (or at the very least not every watering).

Two reasons for this. First, feeding every watering is much more difficult to do without screwing it up. Second, responsible and respect-worthy growers make recommendations with concern for the likelihood of a rank newbie reading and following their advice.


Someone who gives advice that actually increases the chances of a newbie screwing up their grow does not qualify as a "good grower" in my book.


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## GHOPZZ (Apr 12, 2012)

Will Heads Coco formula regiment of 6ml of Flora Micro and 9ml of Flora Bloom work ok for me if im running coco hempy buckets with hydroton on the bottom of the bucket??


----------



## GHOPZZ (Apr 17, 2012)

Can anyone help me out with this??


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## RL420 (Apr 18, 2012)

GHOPZZ said:


> Can anyone help me out with this??


Unless you have CFL's dont alter the forumla.


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## SOG (Jun 13, 2012)

these numbers dont lineup with the numbers calculated by GH's Flora SeriesPPM Calculator, 
i suspect GH changed the formulation for the Flora 3 Part series since the Lucas formula came out,
is Lucas formulation obsolete with today's Flora GMB line, can anyone help clear this up pls?



sealfever42 said:


> G-M-B (Grow-Micro-Bloom)
> 0-5-10 - For Vegetative cycle (18/6)
> 0-8-16 - For Flowering cycle (12/12)
> 
> ...


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## oceangreen (Jun 13, 2012)

stay clea with lucas, just use the full line....

always had issues with lucas


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## Lucius Vorenus (Jun 13, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> stay clea with lucas, just use the full line....
> 
> always had issues with lucas


nonsense. using straight Maxibloom works awesome and i might go back to that eventually.


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## oceangreen (Jun 14, 2012)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> nonsense. using straight Maxibloom works awesome and i might go back to that eventually.


I don;t know why, it may me the strain, But they can't take 8-16, they take 5-10 in veg and they end up with deficiencies... and if I up the ppm they get burn... there is no in between...


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## Lucius Vorenus (Jun 14, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> I don;t know why, it may me the strain, But they can't take 8-16, they take 5-10 in veg and they end up with deficiencies... and if I up the ppm they get burn... there is no in between...


1tsp per gallon is all i ever used


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## oceangreen (Jun 14, 2012)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> 1tsp per gallon is all i ever used


yea, thats with maxibloom.

I am using the 3 part GH. Micro and bloom.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Jun 14, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> yea, thats with maxibloom.
> 
> I am using the 3 part GH. Micro and bloom.



thats what i said in my original reply. MAXIBLOOM is what i was talking about. Read a few posts up.


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## oceangreen (Jun 14, 2012)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> thats what i said in my original reply. MAXIBLOOM is what i was talking about. Read a few posts up.


Yes I understand, still though I find Lucas to be lacking... some strains like it, some don't....

there is better out there


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## Lucius Vorenus (Jun 14, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> Yes I understand, still though I find Lucas to be lacking... some strains like it, some don't....
> 
> there is better out there


I think Maxigrow in Veg and Maxibloom in Flower with a Koolbloom kick at week 5 is pretty much perfect


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## GreenThumbSucker (Jun 19, 2012)

I've been using Lucas since the beginning of my hydro hobby and have had no issues with it. I have been making it myself the last year or two and find the home made stuff to be even better than the hobbyist stuff at hydro shoppes.


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## SOG (Jun 22, 2012)

i could really use some help guys, i feel as if I'm about to lose my girls at this point,
i was using Lucas @ 50% twice a week FWWWWF (watering twice a day,DTW, 7Gal Soil pots, outdoors), 
i changed to three times feed @ 50% Lucas for current week FWWWF
growth seem to be stunted the past two three weeks, 
some lower and mid fan leaves are turning light green / lime color, 
with some lower new growth curling down

i currently pH @7 and water from the top, 
i get the runoff @6.5 (using GH liquid pH indicator, its all i can get my hands on around here)

I'm so confused at this point at this point i need help getting my bearings together
they are about 9-10 weeks old

TIA

SoG


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## Lucius Vorenus (Jun 22, 2012)

^those plants look fine man. don't stress. ph7 is a tad high. even in soil id recommend 6.5. if using coco etc id recommend 6.0.


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## SOG (Jun 22, 2012)

ty Lucius
i used to pH to 6.5 without thinking twice, after a few weeks all large fan leaves turned yellow practically over night
i tested the runoff and found out the pH was close to 5 which locked out bunch of crucial nutes 
i concluded the pH must be drifting; so i started to pH @7, my runoff then is @6.5 by GH color chart
ill try pH @6.5 for this week, i hope they will come around, ill update as soon as i see any changes


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## Lucius Vorenus (Jun 22, 2012)

Make sure you flush a good 15 gallons through each plant if you feel they have gotten lock out. I do 10gal of tap and then 5 gal of Ro Ph'd at 6.0. You would do 6.5. Then check runoff


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## SOG (Jun 22, 2012)

i guess a good flush cant hurt in my situation!

whats my best route as for feeding schedule; considering the system is 
DTW in 7 Gal pots with premium peat moos
they are under direct sun with no light competition; 
almost intense heat conditions (not desert like; but very hot) 
i need to water twice a day as water evaporate fast; 
i added clay tiles around the pots to dissipate some of the heat (seems to help)
i feed (F) once in three days @50% Lucas; then water (W) in between; 
the loop looks something like this FWWWWWF (a gallon per pot)
i cant get a handle on how to adjust Lucas under these conditions


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## oceangreen (Jun 22, 2012)

SOG said:


> i guess a good flush cant hurt in my situation!
> 
> whats my best route as for feeding schedule; considering the system is
> DTW in 7 Gal pots with premium peat moos
> ...


if still in veg take clones, move to ydro, start fresh, use different nutes... dyna grow, botanicare, canna A + B

good luck


----------



## SOG (Jun 22, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> if still in veg take clones, move to ydro, start fresh, use different nutes... dyna grow, botanicare, canna A + B
> 
> good luck


can only get my hand on the basic GH line in this part of the planet


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## oceangreen (Jun 22, 2012)

SOG said:


> can only get my hand on the basic GH line in this part of the planet


then use ALL THREE parts...

depends what country you are in.. where there is a will there is a way. order....


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## SOG (Jun 22, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> then use ALL THREE parts...


how so?
the GH schedule sucks


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## oceangreen (Jun 23, 2012)

SOG said:


> how so?
> the GH schedule sucks


well, its better than the lucas formula...
Look around for schedules on line. depends what method you are using. DWC?


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## GreenThumbSucker (Jun 23, 2012)

Lucas formula is bomb, used it for years.


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## SOG (Jun 23, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> what method you are using. DWC?


im used to NFT & DWC, unfortunately atm I'm running in DTW (drain to waste), 
that's the root of my problem; i feel as if I'm half blind in DTW, 
half the control's im used to are missing


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## GreenThumbSucker (Jun 23, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> I don;t know why, it may me the strain, But they can't take 8-16, they take 5-10 in veg and they end up with deficiencies... and if I up the ppm they get burn... there is no in between...


Don't use lucas for Veg, it is a budding formula. I am growing DWC this time and I dont worry about ml of fertilizer. I just go by PPM. I run them between 800 PPM and 1000 PPM in flowering with lucas. Lucas says go with 1300 ppm, but I have always had just as good results at the lower PPM and I throw away less fertilizer that way. Never had a deficiency problem and I have grown literally hundreds of different strains with lucas. I don't see the point of using that much bloom when vegetating.


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## oceangreen (Jun 24, 2012)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Don't use lucas for Veg, it is a budding formula. I am growing DWC this time and I dont worry about ml of fertilizer. I just go by PPM. I run them between 800 PPM and 1000 PPM in flowering with lucas. Lucas says go with 1300 ppm, but I have always had just as good results at the lower PPM and I throw away less fertilizer that way. Never had a deficiency problem and I have grown literally hundreds of different strains with lucas. I don't see the point of using that much bloom when vegetating.


what ppm of lucas are you using during veg??


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## GreenThumbSucker (Jun 24, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> what ppm of lucas are you using during veg??


I don't use Lucas during Veg. Not enough nitrogen and too much phosphorus. When I veg I use GH 3-2-1 @ 500 - 700 PPM.


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## Traxx187 (Jul 3, 2012)

so i feed nutes water nutes water?


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## oceangreen (Jul 4, 2012)

Traxx187 said:


> so i feed nutes water nutes water?



No use another nute...


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## CallMeDro (Dec 28, 2012)

I've been reading about the formula & still a little confused. I'm going 5 gallon dwc buckets, 8 weeks veg. I was going to use the 3 parts of the flora series with koolbloom & floralicious. I plan on just putting in 4 gallons of nute mix per bucket then replace the water after I add in 4 more gallons of water as needed.
So using just the two part lucas formula will give me the same results? & is the flora grow completely useless? Also, if I used 8-16 per gallon, do I use it throughout the entire veg and flower at the same strength? I think I'm missing something there.


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## doogleef (Dec 29, 2012)

Doesn't sound like you are missing anything. I found this formula to be lacking enough N but I like to keep em green until the end and some subscribe to the "Faded is better" line of thought. 

If you haven't bought your nutes yet, AN is making a "Jungle Juice" mix that actually has the lucas formula on the label instructions. Cheap too.


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## CallMeDro (Dec 29, 2012)

So young plants early in the veg cycle & those in the final weeks of flowering both use the 8-16 doses? wouldn't the ppm be the same throughout the entire grow? & with the three part nutes, they add in a lot more nutrients. Just confused on all of this


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## doogleef (Dec 30, 2012)

Same feed all the way through. Don't make it more complicated than it is.


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## CallMeDro (Dec 30, 2012)

doogleef said:


> Same feed all the way through. Don't make it more complicated than it is.


So you are saying that 2 week old plants and 8 week old plants have the same nutrient intake?


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## insan3 (Dec 30, 2012)

CallMeDro said:


> So you are saying that 2 week old plants and 8 week old plants have the same nutrient intake?


you still need to start light and raise it until the plant reaches it max ppm. then just keep feeding the same strenght until you ready to harvest.

example: 

week 0-2 0 ppm
week 2-3 200pmm 
week 3-4 300pm 

etc, you get the idea.


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## oceangreen (Dec 31, 2012)

Lucas is only good in flowering.. and during the alter stages as well. it also depends on the strain


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## doogleef (Jan 1, 2013)

Plants of different stages obviously have different nutrient requirements but the point of the "on size fits all" approach of the Lucas Formula is there is enough of each major requirement available no mater what the stage and not too much to cause burn. Just because it's available does not mean it get's used. 



insan3 said:


> you still need to start light and raise it until the plant reaches it max ppm. then just keep feeding the same strenght until you ready to harvest.
> 
> example:
> 
> ...


This is true for seedlings as they come out of the shell with basically everything they need. Clones can take the full mix right away as long as they are well rooted and under HID lighting. 



oceangreen said:


> Lucas is only good in flowering.. and during the alter stages as well. it also depends on the strain


While true Lucas fanatics would say this is false... I almost agree with you. As I said earlier, the mix is too light in Nitrogen for me and results in early leaf drop. Green plants are happy plants. 

But again... for a basic hydro feed formula... as long as you keep your PH right and dump/refill your res every 14 days, it DOES work and produce quality buds to run just 2 part with the 8/16 from clone to chop. I did it for a long time.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Jan 28, 2013)

I switched from Lucas to just using a 1 part powder, its been great so far. All we do now is add a OK spike at week 4-6 and cut the nutes down 80% and add in Powder KoolBloom or MOAB at 1/2 recommended strength. Works fine.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Jan 28, 2013)

CallMeDro said:


> So you are saying that 2 week old plants and 8 week old plants have the same nutrient intake?


We amx out nutes by week 6 and then stop feeding them. Just carbs from there on out.


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## karmeron (Jan 28, 2013)

doogleef said:


> While true Lucas fanatics would say this is false... I almost agree with you. As I said earlier, the mix is too light in Nitrogen for me and results in early leaf drop. Green plants are happy plants.
> .


I dont find it makes my plants light green or premature leaf drop using all the way through. Maybe strain specific? As I have heard it isnt as effective with sativa's. Your PPM's should also be telling you if your plant is getting enough or not, do your ppms drop or go higher when using lucas? They should remain the same when you have it dialled in, and that should mean they are taking in all the nutrients they can.


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## hugetom80s (Feb 14, 2013)

karmeron said:


> I dont find it makes my plants light green or premature leaf drop using all the way through. Maybe strain specific? As I have heard it isnt as effective with sativa's. Your PPM's should also be telling you if your plant is getting enough or not, do your ppms drop or go higher when using lucas? They should remain the same when you have it dialled in, and that should mean they are taking in all the nutrients they can.


There are so many different variables and so forth... I've run Lucas before (using Advanced Nutrients, I'm partial to them) and I had no problems at all.

However...

The whole time I did (both grows) I was just more tense than usual because I couldn't stop wondering whether it was really as properly balanced nutrition for the plants as all three parts would give. Maybe it's just paranoid, but from what I've seen here not everyone would agree that Lucas works 100%. For me, personally, peace of mind is worth quite a bit.

Even though I had no problems, I just wasn't as happy with my buds either. I'm not gonna lie and say the yield was off because of Lucas, it's just as likely there was some other reason for it. I was worried about my plants the whole grow and that can color your perception quite a bit. So maybe it was Lucas and maybe there wasn't anything wrong but I saw it because I was stressed out. I can't say for sure and like I said I'm not going to lie and say otherwise.

I actually run the Sensi 2-part these days (pH Perfect, natch) so there's no real temptation to give Lucas a try anyway, but I'd rather buy another bottle and sleep easy at night.

Just my 2c.


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## karmeron (Feb 14, 2013)

hugetom80s said:


> There are so many different variables and so forth... I've run Lucas before (using Advanced Nutrients, I'm partial to them) and I had no problems at all.
> 
> However...
> 
> ...


Youre right when you say that lucas isnt 100%, nothing is really, you will never reach 100% perfection  

I think the comment " I'd rather buy another bottle and sleep easy at night" kinda sums up how the nutrient industry have people thinking. They make you think that by buying more you are doing more for your plants, sometimes less is more.


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## hugetom80s (Mar 6, 2013)

karmeron said:


> Youre right when you say that lucas isnt 100%, nothing is really, you will never reach 100% perfection


True, but that doesn't mean it's not worth trying. Excellence is like life: it's a journey rather than a destination.

Just like any other journey, it's up to each person to decide which course and what speed they want to move. What's right for me is right for me, but not necessarily for you. Vice versa. So say, just arbitrarily, that Lucas is 90% of "whatever standard" we're using to define 100% (I was simply saying that it doesn't work perfectly for everyone, every time). If something 95% costs X amount more or requires Y amount more work on the grower's part, is that enough better to justify the cost? Depends on each of us, and what we consider more important. Is 5% worth X dollars or Y work? Maybe for me, maybe for you, but it really doesn't matter to anyone but the people trying to sell it and the individuals deciding whether or not to buy it.



karmeron said:


> I think the comment " I'd rather buy another bottle and sleep easy at night" kinda sums up how the nutrient industry have people thinking. They make you think that by buying more you are doing more for your plants, sometimes less is more.


You completely missed my point, maybe I didn't make it clear. I'd assumed we all knew that the Lucas formula is simply using 2 parts of a 3-part system, in different ratios than normal, to provide a "complete" nutritional basis for growing your plants. I, like many others, find this to be questionable simplification. The third bottle I'm talking about is the third bottle omitted in the Lucas formula from that 3-part formula. I know for certain that all three together represent a balanced nutritional regimen for my plants because that's the way it's designed. I'm not convinced I can omit one third of the formula and compensate with the other two and still give my plants everything they need. My personal growing history tends to support this and it's worth the few bucks to buy the third bottle and KNOW I'm getting complete nutrients rather than wondering.

It's not a "more is better" thing. It's an "enough is enough" thing. I know 3 parts of a 3 part is enough. I know 2 parts of a 2 part is enough. I know that lots and lots of people have grown with 2 of 3 (Lucas formula) without problems, and I know some haven't had the same luck. I'm not talking about going out and buying all 15 or so bottles and running the full line. There's nothing wrong with that, either, _*if that's what you want to do*_. But that's not my point.

Peace of mind is my point. Everyone puts a different price on it and again, that's perfectly fine. For me, the cost of buying a bottle of Grow along with the Micro and Bloom, is well-worth the gain in Peace of Mind that I get from it. It's not a matter of being gullible or falling for a "more is more" school of thought. I own more tools than I need in the strictest sense because I'm a firm believer in right tool, right job. Use the right tool for the right job instead of using a similar tool for a job it's not really designed for, and you're much more likely not to get bad results. Can you use slip joint pliers be used to loosen/tighten a nut? Sure, but you're probably going to chew it up a little and possibly strip it out entirely. It's going to be harder to do. Use a crescent wrench or better yet, a socket wrench with a correct-sized socket. But if I could only afford one of those tools and space was a concern, the slip-joint would do more jobs.

It's not some Tool Industry conspiracy that they make so many different sized sockets or that they make so many different tools. If someone made a tool that did multiple jobs just as well as the individual tools for those jobs (and, in keeping with the analogy here, cost less) those other tools wouldn't stand a chance in the market. It's happened before.

My (long-winded) point is that wanting the right tool for the job isn't the same as playing into some imaginary master plan to sell more nutrients.


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## karmeron (Mar 6, 2013)

hugetom80s said:


> You completely missed my point, maybe I didn't make it clear. I'd assumed we all knew that the Lucas formula is simply using 2 parts of a 3-part system, in different ratios than normal, to provide a "complete" nutritional basis for growing your plants. I, like many others, find this to be questionable simplification. The third bottle I'm talking about is the third bottle omitted in the Lucas formula from that 3-part formula. I know for certain that all three together represent a balanced nutritional regimen for my plants because that's the way it's designed. I'm not convinced I can omit one third of the formula and compensate with the other two and still give my plants everything they need. My personal growing history tends to support this and it's worth the few bucks to buy the third bottle and KNOW I'm getting complete nutrients rather than wondering.
> 
> It's not a "more is better" thing. It's an "enough is enough" thing. I know 3 parts of a 3 part is enough. I know 2 parts of a 2 part is enough. I know that lots and lots of people have grown with 2 of 3 (Lucas formula) without problems, and I know some haven't had the same luck. I'm not talking about going out and buying all 15 or so bottles and running the full line. There's nothing wrong with that, either, _*if that's what you want to do*_. But that's not my point.
> 
> ...


Once again it is how the industry have ppl thinking, you didnt mention that maybe the 3rd bottle isnt needed at all, because all the nutrients in it are in the other 2. So your peace of mind is just *"in your mind"*, according to lucas who came up with the formula, the micro and bloom have everything that is in the veg bottle. As for the right tool for the right job, youd have to prove lucas formula is the "wrong tool" for the job for that point to mean anything.

Your saying "* I know 3 parts of a 3 part is enough" - *you "know"???? how do you know, have you done any scientific studies or side by side comparisons?? Also you say it is a case of "enough is enough", to say that youd have to prove the 3 part is "enough", its all opinion. As you mentioned its from your "growing experience", which is fine, but that is not "proof".

Dont get me wrong, everyone can use whatever they want, but saying something is incomplete because it omits 1 bottle from a 3 bottle regime doesnt mean it is incomplete, that is just an opinion. Im also not saying the lucas formula is the best thing the world either, but it is a known fact that nutrient manufacturers try to sell people as much as they can wether they need it or not and that is the whole point of the lucas formula, not needing to buy more than a plant needs. 

No one mentioned anything about conspiracies, its just business. Any businesses goal is to make money, usually by any means necessary that isnt illegal (and some that are), im not blaming the companies that do this, its the game they are in.

Of course im not saying i "know" anything, it is just my opinon, like everything else you read on a forum


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## Mithrandir420 (Mar 6, 2013)

karmeron said:


> Once again it is how the industry have ppl thinking, you didnt mention that maybe the 3rd bottle isnt needed at all, because all the nutrients in it are in the other 2. So your peace of mind is just *"in your mind"*, according to lucas who came up with the formula, the micro and bloom have everything that is in the veg bottle. As for the right tool for the right job, youd have to prove lucas formula is the "wrong tool" for the job for that point to mean anything.
> 
> Your saying "* I know 3 parts of a 3 part is enough" - *you "know"???? how do you know, have you done any scientific studies or side by side comparisons?? Also you say it is a case of "enough is enough", to say that youd have to prove the 3 part is "enough", its all opinion. As you mentioned its from your "growing experience", which is fine, but that is not "proof".
> 
> ...


I get better results using the 3 part than I did with Lucas. What really swayed me back over to all three bottles was that I wasn't able to tweak Lucas for each individual strain the way I can with Useless. Lucas works great, but I find that for me, I like being able to fine tune my formula. I get better results in my system this way.


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## oceangreen (Mar 6, 2013)

3 part all the way...

why do lucas when youcan get all three parts dont get it


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## hugetom80s (Mar 26, 2013)

karmeron said:


> Once again it is how the industry have ppl thinking, you didnt mention that maybe the 3rd bottle isnt needed at all, because all the nutrients in it are in the other 2.


You dismiss the idea that you're talking about conspiracies, but you're the one saying "the industry" has people thinking things they want them to think. That doesn't happen by accident. If The Industry is working to get people thinking a certain way, that's a conspiracy.

Not all the nutrients in Grow are in the Micro and Bloom. Don't believe me? Pour some Grow into a bottle of Micro and a bottle of Bloom. "No, it'll precipitate out," you say. Of course it will. Because there are additional nutrients in Grow that are separated from the Micro and Bloom specifically for that reason.

What you _mean_ to say, precisely, is that the macro nutrients in Grow are also found - in lesser quantities and from different source minerals - in the Micro and Bloom. You can take an iron supplement pill, or you can eat some spinach. But they're not the same thing, particularly if you're not eating very much spinach.



karmeron said:


> So your peace of mind is just *"in your mind"*


All peace of mind is. That's why it's called "peace of mind" and not "peace".



karmeron said:


> according to lucas who came up with the formula, the micro and bloom have everything that is in the veg bottle. As for the right tool for the right job, youd have to prove lucas formula is the "wrong tool" for the job for that point to mean anything.


Lucas is not a god. He's a great grower, no doubts about that. But you're saying "according to Lucas" as though that were some kind of magic gospel truth. He's a guy. You can't say that the burden of proof falls on me, when there's no proof that what I'm expressing skepticism in has ever actually been true. "Well, Lucas said so," isn't proof.

Look at it this way: what happens if Lucas is wrong? He loses face. Certainly that would be unpleasant but this is an anonymous community we live in. My legal name isn't Hugetom80s. If his formula had been a death sentence to every plant fed on it, he could have simply reinvented himself, started a new account, and moved on. But what happens to a nutrient company if their nutrients don't actually provide plants with a complete diet? Yeah... much worse. They can't simply reinvent themselves with anything near the same ease. Companies sometimes do, but usually we know that Company X used to be Company Y and the stain of Y's failure still sits on X.

So without my own lab and staff to do extensive testing, it comes down to a certain degree of trust combined with and tempered by practical first-hand experience. Is my personal, anecdotal experience growing on the Lucas formula scientific evidence? Of course not. Is it useless data? Absolutely not.

Advanced Nutrients themselves publishes instructions for using their 3 part on the Lucas formula (or at least they did, I don't know if it still works with their pH Perfect nutes). So obviously it doesn't kill plants. But the question in my mind is not whether I can grow plants, but whether I am growing the healthiest plants I'm capable of growing. Any living thing that depends entirely on me is a living thing I have a responsibility for. I'm solely responsible for the health of my plants and if I can make them healthier and happier and yet choose not to, I'm not holding up my end of the deal. And since my plants produce much better, taking better care of me in return when I improve their health, it's also in my best interest to live up to my responsibilities.



karmeron said:


> Your saying "* I know 3 parts of a 3 part is enough" - *you "know"???? how do you know, have you done any scientific studies or side by side comparisons?? Also you say it is a case of "enough is enough", to say that youd have to prove the 3 part is "enough", its all opinion. As you mentioned its from your "growing experience", which is fine, but that is not "proof".


See above. Also, if you're going to throw around the word "proof" by defining all the things that aren't proof, how about defining what you believe proof is.

(Actually, don't do that. As soon as you suggest something that would "prove" something I'll just point out all the variables your scenario fails to account for and is in fact not proof but simply a scientific study that supports a hypothesis.)



karmeron said:


> Dont get me wrong, everyone can use whatever they want, but saying something is incomplete because it omits 1 bottle from a 3 bottle regime doesnt mean it is incomplete, that is just an opinion.


Just as saying it's complete in spite of that omission doesn't make it complete. The company that makes the 3 part nutrient has more to lose than the Internet Guy who says you don't need all three parts. If you believe they make three parts simply to sell three bottles rather than 2, that's naive and demonstrates a misunderstanding of the principles of economics. So there must be a reason for 3 part solutions beyond "it's one more than a 2-part" and the rational one is that all three parts play an important role.

You can live on an incomplete diet. People do it all the time. "Not dying" isn't proof an incomplete diet is complete. Some people who are technically malnourished even appear to thrive. That's not proof an incomplete diet is complete.


So I feel it's irresponsible to give my plants what I suspect may be an incomplete nutrient feeding schedule. If you want to call that being brainwashed by The Industry Conspiracy That Isn't a Conspiracy, fine.

I'll simply call it "avoiding the problems I've had running Lucas before".


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## 70's natureboy (Mar 26, 2013)

Wow, this Lucas formula is really going over everybody's head. The GH micro already has nitrogen in it so you aren't really depriving your plants of nitrogen. A lot of people have had success with this formula for over 10 years I believe. People should really try it before judging it as worthless. I tried it and it didn't ruin my plants but I do like a little more green on my plants so I use the 3 part or floranova grow now. It could just be my strains but as one wise poster already said, "green plants are happy plants". If you try Lucas formula and get yellow leaves, just add some grow. It's all about reading your plants anyway.


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## ledcflgrow (Apr 16, 2013)

To keep it simple, the Lukas Formula basically turns your ferts into a 5-5-5, 5% N, 5%P, and 5% K. It only uses the micro and bloom, no grow. So if you want to use other fert brands, just look at the two in the series that will give you a bout a 5-5-5 ratio. If it gives you 10-10-10, that is the same thing, just use half less, so instead of 8ml and 16ml, use 4 and 8.


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## ledcflgrow (Apr 16, 2013)

70's, if you see yellow, why not try instead of 8mL micro 16mL bloom, 9mL micro 14-15mL bloom? Or 10micro and 14 bloom. Micro has way more nitrogen than grow.


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## hugetom80s (May 11, 2013)

70's natureboy said:


> Wow, this Lucas formula is really going over everybody's head. The GH micro already has nitrogen in it so you aren't really depriving your plants of nitrogen. A lot of people have had success with this formula for over 10 years I believe. People should really try it before judging it as worthless. I tried it and it didn't ruin my plants but I do like a little more green on my plants so I use the 3 part or floranova grow now. It could just be my strains but as one wise poster already said, "green plants are happy plants". If you try Lucas formula and get yellow leaves, just add some grow. It's all about reading your plants anyway.


Happy plants are green, but green plants aren't necessarily happy. They're no different than people... you can have enough to eat and still not be at peak potential. Like I said before, there's a difference between not killing a plant and it reaching its full potential. The Lucas Formula isn't bad, I'm just not convinced it's as good. My personal experience with it says it does not perform as well as the full three-part line involved.



ledcflgrow said:


> To keep it simple, the Lukas Formula basically turns your ferts into a 5-5-5, 5% N, 5%P, and 5% K. It only uses the micro and bloom, no grow. So if you want to use other fert brands, just look at the two in the series that will give you a bout a 5-5-5 ratio. If it gives you 10-10-10, that is the same thing, just use half less, so instead of 8ml and 16ml, use 4 and 8.


Don't forget that not all Nitrogen is the same. Different sources are more soluble than others and plants even grow differently according to the type of nitrogen source involved. Unless you're absolutely certain that every type of nitrogen in the Grow is present, and in precisely the same ratios, in the Micro you're *not growing with the same nutrients.*

Who knows what the difference is? There's "good", there's "as good", and there's "as good as it gets". None of them are the same thing.


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## karmeron (May 11, 2013)

hugetom80s said:


> Different sources are more soluble than others and plants even grow differently according to the type of nitrogen source involved. Unless you're absolutely certain that every type of nitrogen in the Grow is present, and in precisely the same ratios, in the Micro you're *not growing with the same nutrients.*


Only soluble forms are in nutrients - nitrates


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## churchhaze (May 12, 2013)

The reason the third bottle (grow) is useful is because it's higher in potassium!! It has nothing to do with nitrogen! The main ingredient in it is potassium nitrate which is more potassium than nitrate! Pure potassium nitrate has an NPK rating of 13-0-44. Think about that for a second. What is the NPK rating of the grow bottle?

Why would people say "it has enough N" when "grow" has more K than N? Shouldn't the argument be that lucas already has enough K and doesn't need grow? The argument (that the extra N isn't needed) as it stands makes no sense.


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## churchhaze (May 12, 2013)

Actually, you could probably get away with mixing grow and bloom and you could also get away with mixing grow and micro. You'd have a problem mixing micro with bloom. Calcium phosphate would precipitate out quickly. The reason for having the separate grow bottle has nothing to do with precipitates.



hugetom80s said:


> Not all the nutrients in Grow are in the Micro and Bloom. Don't believe me? Pour some Grow into a bottle of Micro and a bottle of Bloom. "No, it'll precipitate out," you say. Of course it will. Because there are additional nutrients in Grow that are separated from the Micro and Bloom specifically for that reason.


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## churchhaze (May 12, 2013)

The nitrogen in the "micro" bottle comes almost entirely from calcium nitrate. The nitrogen in the "grow" bottle comes almost entirely from potassium nitrate.

They are both nitrates. Ammonical nitrogen is really low in both bottles. That's really not the difference here. The difference is that micro is nitrate rich while grow is potassium rich. This is because by mass, potassium nitrate has more potassium than nitrate, but calcium nitrate provides a greater amount of nitrate per mass because there are 2 nitrates per calcium Ca(NO3)2.

Calcium nitrate is the primary provider of nitrates and calcium in every successful hydroponic solution, period.



hugetom80s said:


> Don't forget that not all Nitrogen is the same. Different sources are more soluble than others and plants even grow differently according to the type of nitrogen source involved. Unless you're absolutely certain that every type of nitrogen in the Grow is present, and in precisely the same ratios, in the Micro you're *not growing with the same nutrients*.


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## churchhaze (May 12, 2013)

This beats the 3 part mixture + 1000 additives any day.


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## budtoker0987 (Jul 24, 2013)

doogleef said:


> According to Lucas, both the blend and the concentration are important. The only way this formula works without additives is at "full strength". The reason for that is the low N in the mix. Gotta supply enough total salts to meet the low end of the N needs.
> 
> If you are mixing you own nutes I would definitely up the Nitrogen by 50%. Contrary to popular belief the N uptake goes UP in the first 3-4 weeks of flower before dropping off after the "stretch". Feed em enough N during that time and you will be much better off.


This is what I have been wondering. So you dont use additives with this formula at "full strength"? (8/16) 
So like, Rapid start, Diamond Nectar, Flora Blend, Liquid Kool Bloom, ect.. Of course I just bought a gallon of kool bloom and flora blend and floralicious plus before I started reading about Lucas formula  I guess I dont want to waste them but wont use if not needed too.


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## thenotsoesoteric (Jul 26, 2013)

I read somewhere I believe on a cannabis world forum, but the Lucas formula came from an Ask Lucas thread from that forum. Lucas came up with this formula to solve the newbie nute problems and to save people money by making a simplified method. It was not made to replace someones feeding regiment that is actually working. So if your stuff is on point, you will not get better results from lucas. If you can't grow for shit or you are light on cash, then Lucas was made for you.


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## Dogenzengi (Dec 7, 2013)

I don't get it?
i use Ff hydro and when my res goes down I just add a gallon at the proper PH and PPM.

I do supplement w 1 gram of Epsom salt for every Gallon I put in my reservoir for Magnesium.

I am not trying to talk about Lucas, I know nothing about it, it sounds highly technical and controlled and I like that.
But....
I am a Noob a Beginner, but I did pull 6 oz off one plant in my first grow using just the FF trio and Epsom Salt.

I flowered from 750 up to 950 ppm max during flower then tapered off to 350 PPM at the end of flower. 

I just started a new plant in my flower tent today, it my 2nd grow.

I transplanted into a hempy style container and fed 2 gallons of fresh water PH corrected no Nutes.

the first feeding will 300 PPM, FF grow big 1 tsp per gal tiger bloom 1 tsp per gallon.

I will increase Nutes in each gallon then decrease nutes each gallon.

That is instead of a flood and drain with reservoir, how I grew my first plant.

being new to Hempy I would love any helpful hints.


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## hotdogski (Mar 19, 2014)

Hello, everyone I enjoyed this thread. I do realize its more than a few years old, but Im just wondering, when we are talking about "1300ppm @ .7 conversion". What does that mean exactly?
Does it mean that we are measuring 1300ppm per .7 gallons?

Thanks
-Ed


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## mrgreen2015 (Jan 19, 2016)

bump. awesome thread


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