# Sous vide for decarboxylation?



## Tyleb173rd (Apr 22, 2016)

I read on high times that someone did this at 200 degrees for an hour and converts 86% of the THC and at 100 minutes for 100% decarboxylation. Has anyone tried this before?


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## HeatlessBBQ (Apr 23, 2016)

Yeah.


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## Tyleb173rd (Apr 23, 2016)

It works? Do tell.....


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## Dan Drews (May 16, 2016)

There have been a lot of similar tests. I prefer NOT to fully decarb my weed before baking for the simple reason that, after decarb, I infuse it into butter for an additional 3 hours at approx 200 - 212 degrees, then bake into brownies for another 30 minutes at 350 degrees. IMHO, if you fully decarb in the oven BEFORE infusing in butter, then baking into brownies - you run the risk of breaking down THC and degrading your buzz from your edibles.

If you're making tinctures and won't be reheating cannabis infused oil or butter, then shoot for 100% decarb. Otherwise, decarb by baking @ 240 for 30 - 35 minutes prior to infusing your oil or butter.


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## Tyleb173rd (May 17, 2016)

Dan Drews said:


> There have been a lot of similar tests. I prefer NOT to fully decarb my weed before baking for the simple reason that, after decarb, I infuse it into butter for an additional 3 hours at approx 200 - 212 degrees, then bake into brownies for another 30 minutes at 350 degrees. IMHO, if you fully decarb in the oven BEFORE infusing in butter, then baking into brownies - you run the risk of breaking down THC and degrading your buzz from your edibles.
> 
> If you're making tinctures and won't be reheating cannabis infused oil or butter, then shoot for 100% decarb. Otherwise, decarb by baking @ 240 for 30 - 35 minutes prior to infusing your oil or butter.


Have you used the sous vide method?


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## qwizoking (May 17, 2016)

what is that

sorry im not like a chef or something


i typically double boil extract and watch it decarb, then dissolve into melted coconut oil. quick and easy with the least degradation


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## GrowinDad (May 19, 2016)

Souz Vide would be basically like a hot oil or water bath. It is cooking something in a sealed bag in its own juices in hot water...

I don't see why it wouldn't work...


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## qwizoking (May 19, 2016)

oh ok..






Tyleb173rd said:


> I read on high times that someone did this at 200 degrees for an hour and converts 86% of the THC and at 100 minutes for 100% decarboxylation. Has anyone tried this before?


well then the only issue i have is the numbers.
you wont get 86% conversion...
more like 70 at that temp.. and time frame is questionable as well

but yea i dont see why it wouldnt work


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## Genki88 (May 19, 2016)

With the sous vide, can you decarb at a lower temp but longer time for a higher % conversion??


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## qwizoking (May 19, 2016)

thats what happens regardless of method.
low and slow..just like bbq

try 160-170
give you 10-15% more than 210

cant get a whole lot better


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## Tyleb173rd (May 19, 2016)

I can't have the smell in the house. We have young kids who have young friends. We can't have parents stopping by and smelling a decarboxylation going on.


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## qwizoking (May 19, 2016)

there are many many methods to decarb 
shit if its a big deal throw a few mason jars of bud (im still confused if we're talking bud or concentrate)
in your trunk while its parked outside. its hot enough here to decarb fairly quickly. could definitely get to 110-120° in there

or wait... leave some in the top of yor closet idk, it will decarb while sealed... in 3-4months lol
shit you can even decarb how we do most sensitive compounds, (no heat) and very quick/efficient 
http://www.organic-chemistry.org/synthesis/C1H/decarboxylations.shtm


or cook it at night idk... figure it out bro


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## Dan Drews (May 19, 2016)

Tyleb173rd said:


> I can't have the smell in the house. We have young kids who have young friends. We can't have parents stopping by and smelling a decarboxylation going on.


Even if you choose NOT to decarb, which you know will result in a lower potency edible, I'm assuming you're still planning on making cannabutter or some type of oil infusion. Both are going to smell pretty potent for the 2 - 3 hours you'll need to devote to the process. Are you planning on doing this outside the home somewhere?

Sounds to me like decarbing may be the lesser or your worries.


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## DemonTrich (May 25, 2016)

To dispose of any and all myths, If you bake something in a 350 oven, the food your baking WILL NEVER GET TO 350*... EVER! Example, ever read a recipe, it states cook for 45 mins at 350* and an internal temp at 160* (food safe temp for most meats). I am.a certified chef, 2 yr degree, 10 yrs kitchen experience, fine dining, and running the pass. 10 yrs food safety certification as well from.serve safe.


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## Tyleb173rd (May 25, 2016)

CIA Grad here. 2001.


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## DemonTrich (May 25, 2016)

Your gonna make me.feel.old you damn younging.

93 grad here


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## Tyleb173rd (May 25, 2016)

I also went to MCCC prior to going there.


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## DemonTrich (May 25, 2016)

Florida here


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## Fogdog (Apr 8, 2017)

Tyleb173rd said:


> Have you used the sous vide method?


I've used oven method for a few batches -- 2 hr @240F. I like the smell but wow, the whole house. Def not stealth. So, I gave sous vide decarboxylation a try based upon this article:

http://marijuanagrowershq.com/decarboxylation-marijuana-alchemy/

In the article linked above, 1 hr 40 minutes at about 200F (93 C)

_Sample 3 at 1 hour and 40 minutes was 100% decarboxylated. It appears this would to be a sufficient time and temperature to decarboxylate cannabis with the sous-vide method. Further experiments could reduce this time but batch size, density and starting THC level could also require adjustments. Unless you are going to have your batch lab tested I would not cut down the time or temperature_

Also checked kinetics of decarb:

http://cannakb.com/assets/articles/Vaporizer and Other/Decarboxylation of D9thc kenetics and molecular modeling.pdf

Figure 5 in the above link shows 1 hour at 95 C wouldn't be long enough. Plugging numbers into the rate equation confirms that 93 C for 2 hrs should be more than enough time to decarb my weed nearly 100%.

So, that's what I've tried. (Spoiler alert) I get similar or better results using sous vide compared to oven decarb. Based upon my personal response to canna oil made from my home grown.

Some notes on technique:

Material: small buds from trimming, 1 ounce, "Mastodon" from Oregon Green Seed. Pretty strong smoke, didn't submit for analysis
Pre-process: scissors to finely chop bud into rice grain-sized bits
Vacuum packed 1-ounce chopped bud in "boil in bag" with three butter knives for ballast.
Vaccum sealer: https://www.sorbentsystems.com/sinbosealer.html

Brought large pot of water to near boil. Checked temperature and submerged bag when pot was "simmer temp", 205 F
Placed a Japanese "drop lid" to partially cover the surface of the hot water. If fully covered, the water temp would have climbed to nearly 212 and I wanted to keep temp to just below that. An Otoshi-Buta or drop lid can be purchased from Amazon among other places or in a good Asian market.

Used a digital thermometer to track temperature. Maintained 203 F +/- 5 F
Total time of treatment: 2 hours
Notes:

3 butter knives aren't enough ballast. I had to add external weights and used the drop lid to help keep the package under water.
Air gained in the package during the treatment. The package was pretty much sucked tightly around the chopped weed but during time, a bubble grew, making it hard to keep the bag submerged.
The weed got a little damp. Water wasn't leaking through the heat seal. It's my guess that the bag transmits water vapor at near boiling temps. The weed wasn't wet, just a little more moist after processing.
No odor in the house. Weed smelled good but it did take on some of the tea-like smell that it has when baked in the oven.

Making canna-oil:

1 ounce weed to 1 pound coconut oil
Place weed, oil and water to cover into a pot that fits inside a cheap Presto deep fat fryer. Placed a lid on this pot
Add enough water to the deep fat fryer to float the small pot. Place a lid on the fat fryer.
Heat to 190 F, monitor temp closely at first and adjust as needed.
Stir occasionally
Once the contents of the inner pot reach 190 F, start timer. Cook for 2 hours. (190 F +/- 5 F for 2 hrs)
Pour contents into large French press (coffee french press) and push plunger to squeeze out solids.
Transfer solids from french press to a double sheet of cheese cloth. Squeeze remaining liquid from solid into main batch. Lick fingers.
Pour off water and oil into a 8x8x2 into glass baking dish. Put into fridge and allow to cool until oil is hard. Place in freezer for a short time if the cake isn't hard enough to lift cleanly off.
Once oil hardens, lift off from water, discard water.
Place square oil cake onto cutting board, cut into quarters, package and freeze until needed
Making canna coins:

Melt 1/4 pound canna oil
Use silicone candy mold. Mine makes small round flat disks I call "coins".
1 tsp per coin.
Once tray is full, place in freezer several hours until coins freeze solid and hard.
Pop out coins, place in baggy, put into freezer and enjoy with hot milk.

Result/conclusion:

When I compare oven decarbed canna oil vs the sous vide decarbed canna oil, I find the sous vide coins to be stronger in effect. For me, a lightweight for sure, one coin makes for a pleasant 6 hr buzz. Two coins get me baked. Sous vide coins more so than oven baked but the difference isn't huge.

I'll post more when I learn more. One thing I'll do next time is place twice as much ballast in the bag before vac-sealing it.


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## bmgnoot (Apr 11, 2017)

best way to decarb is in the oven at 240º TRIPLE bagged in turkey bags...this helps reabsorb the terpenes that would otherwise be lost....very important for obvious reasons! you'll notice it doesnt smell much or at all while decarbing. tumble every 10 minutes for uhh ithnk 40 is the sweet spot? 30-60 minutes anyway..leave it sealed for a tleast 30 minutes while it cools down. this tip came from a buddy of mine who works* in the kitchen for a very large chain of dispensaries in the state. they drop a ton of money on research and top of the line blah blah big money blah blah.

THIS COULD OF COURSE ALL BE RUBBISH ™©

*co-manages


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## fearnoevil (Apr 13, 2017)

I'm wondering why, at the temps and times needed, decarboxylation is recommended when making cannabutter? Some of those recipes talk about 12 and even 24 hrs cook time, so how is that not going to decarb the end product? I'd think decarbing in advance would just cause more THC to be converted to CBN's during such long heating times, or am I missing something here?


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## fearnoevil (Apr 13, 2017)

Also, I do like sous-vide cooking, amazing that you can take a pretty cheap cut of meat, season it and cook it in the SV cooker for 12 hrs, and it can still come out medium rare AND be as tender as a more expensive tenderloin steak (and veggies NEVER tasted so good ;?).

But other than for the stealth benefit of containing odors, I don't see a big advantage of using an expensive SV cooker compared to putting the sealed herb in boiling water for slightly less time, but then I haven't tried it so just a guess.

I wonder if you can put your herb (not decarbed) and butter in a vacuum-sealed bag, then put it in a slow cooker on high for 6-8 hrs and make cannabutter that way?


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## Fogdog (Apr 13, 2017)

fearnoevil said:


> I'm wondering why, at the temps and times needed, decarboxylation is recommended when making cannabutter? Some of those recipes talk about 12 and even 24 hrs cook time, so how is that not going to decarb the end product? I'd think decarbing in advance would just cause more THC to be converted to CBN's during such long heating times, or am I missing something here?


Not having done a ton of research, nor have I a ton of material to experiment with, I can only say what happened in a few batches. That said, I have compared 2 hrs of cook time in butter or oil vs 5 hrs of cook time with butter. The 5 hr batch was bitter to the point of unusable without sweeteners added and lots of sugar. The 2 hr batch seemed just as potent to me without the bitterness. After two hrs cooking (in crock pot with 1 pound butter or 1 pound coco-oil, 1 oz decarb weed, and about 2x volume of water at 190 F), my cannabutter or cannoil has plenty of potency for my head. No chem analysis for THC content because this is all for fun and not profit.


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## fearnoevil (Apr 13, 2017)

Fogdog said:


> Not having done a ton of research, nor have I a ton of material to experiment with, I can only say what happened in a few batches. That said, I have compared 2 hrs of cook time in butter or oil vs 5 hrs of cook time. The 5 hr batch was bitter to the point of unusable without sweeteners added and lots of sugar. The 2 hr batch seemed just as potent to me without the bitterness. After two hrs cooking (in crock pot with 1 pound butter or 1 pound coco-oil, 1 oz decarb weed, and about 2x volume of water at 190 F), my cannabutter or cannoil has plenty of potency for my head. No chem analysis for THC content because this is all for fun and not profit.


So the 5hr cook was with the same method,decarbed herb in water/butter mixture at 190 F? Hadn't heard of the bitter end product before, just wondering if somewhere along the way the temps didn't spike too high (only read about a bad tasting batch with too-high temps).
Wouldn't you think that 2 hrs at 200 F. would also decarboxylate the THCA at the same time? I can't see why it wouldn't from everything I've read, and saves a step that if done wrong would lower potency.


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## fearnoevil (Apr 13, 2017)

BTW Fogdog, did you find coconut oil better/worse than butter? I've read it's better at extracting the goods from your herb, and the added benny that it's supposed to be healthy for you, makes me want to go that route first.


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## Fogdog (Apr 13, 2017)

fearnoevil said:


> Also, I do like sous-vide cooking, amazing that you can take a pretty cheap cut of meat, season it and cook it in the SV cooker for 12 hrs, and it can still come out medium rare AND be as tender as a more expensive tenderloin steak (and veggies NEVER tasted so good ;?).
> 
> But other than for the stealth benefit of containing odors, I don't see a big advantage of using an expensive SV cooker compared to putting the sealed herb in boiling water for slightly less time, but then I haven't tried it so just a guess.
> 
> I wonder if you can put your herb (not decarbed) and butter in a vacuum-sealed bag, then put it in a slow cooker on high for 6-8 hrs and make cannabutter that way?


 I hadn't considered triple bagged turkey cooking bags, that's a good idea, @bmgnoot . I've been doing "sous vide" without the sous vide unit and my temperature control is pretty much just "keep it at a low simmer, just below boiling". I check temperature periodically and the temperature does swing +/- 10 F, which is more than a sous vide unit would allow, . I don't boil because then I have to watch the water level as the water boils off also there will be more THC lost to conversion to cbn. 

Whether we are decarboxylating or extracting THC, we fight the same time temperature response curve shown below:






To the right of the peaks of curves (refer to curves 145 C and 122 C), THC increases due to conversion of THCA. To the left of peaks of those curves, THC decreases due to conversion to CBN. At 94 C (201 F), the conversion is slow and pretty much flat over time, which gives me more margin for error. Boiling is probably OK too. Note that I'm decarbing at 200 F (+/- 10) for 2 hrs, then extracting at 190 F (+/- 10) for 2 hours. This, I think, should give me complete decarb with just a little CBN. 

Which gets us to another problem with roasting pot in an oven. My oven is an old electric oven. It's not a lab oven with fine temperature control. At 240 F/30 minutes, 10 F error in setting can cause me to lose more THC than I care to contemplate. I did see a difference in potency between oven roasted weed and the stuff that I made in a "sous vide". I can't say for sure why but the graph above might explain why.

I just ordered a sous vide controller for 200 bucks (Sansaire) to give me better control of the process. Also plastic balls to sit on top of the bath to reduce water loss and heat lost to air. If I only had an ounce or two, I'd probably just boil like you suggest but I have a bit more than that and would like to lay down a good stash for the freezer, so, it's worth it to me to buy a control unit that I can use for other cooking but will make my canna oil process easier and more accurate.
.


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## Fogdog (Apr 13, 2017)

fearnoevil said:


> BTW Fogdog, did you find coconut oil better/worse than butter? I've read it's better at extracting the goods from your herb, and the added benny that it's supposed to be healthy for you, makes me want to go that route first.


I've been using coco-oil and like the results. It's easy to work with and you don't have milk solids separating like you do when using butter. Also if you don't get those solids out, they can go rancid over time if left at room temperature. I have no idea if one or the other is a better solvent for THC or more healthy.


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## Fogdog (Apr 13, 2017)

fearnoevil said:


> So the 5hr cook was with the same method,decarbed herb in water/butter mixture at 190 F? Hadn't heard of the bitter end product before, just wondering if somewhere along the way the temps didn't spike too high (only read about a bad tasting batch with too-high temps).
> Wouldn't you think that 2 hrs at 200 F. would also decarboxylate the THCA at the same time? I can't see why it wouldn't from everything I've read, and saves a step that if done wrong would lower potency.


Sorry, I should have been more clear.

The butter experiment was done using oven roasted herb. Oven setting was 240 F. Time was 30 minutes.

I then used clarified butter, 1 pound to one ounce of weed (weight before roasting)

weed, butter and enough water to float everything plus extra was put in a crock pot and "cooked" for 2 hours or 5 hours at 190 F (+/- 10 F). 

I don't know exactly why but the 5 hour cannabutter was really bitter and the 2 hour stuff was not. I don't see much reference to this happening in anybody else's recipes so take it with a grain of very unscientific salt. What I can say is that five hours is probably as long as you'd want to cook the weed if you wanted to avoid loss of THC to CBN, based upon the time-temp curves I posted earlier.


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## fearnoevil (Apr 13, 2017)

Fogdog said:


> I've been using coco-oil and like the results. It's easy to work with and you don't have milk solids separating like you do when using butter. Also if you don't get those solids out, they can go rancid over time if left at room temperature. I have no idea if one or the other is a better solvent for THC or more healthy.


Roger on the milk solids. Have you tried a product called Ghee? You can buy it on Amazon and it's a traditional Indian food product, I think I read that it goes back over a thousand years, and is usually produced organically (and sometimes with Hindu prayers chanted during the making, although I've not been able to tell the difference ;?). It is delicious, supposed to be healthier, and has a very high smoke point making it great for fried foods.

I've got some of both so I'll try some in each product and see what the results are. Here's a link to check on the Ghee, the first is a large 32oz jar, the second is quite a bit cheaper for an 9oz jar.

https://www.amazon.com/100-Organic-Ghee-Grass-fed-Cows/dp/B00E0WB292/ref=sr_1_4_s_it?s=grocery&ie=UTF8&qid=1492145817&sr=1-4&keywords=Ghee

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VXQGY64?th=1


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## Fogdog (Apr 13, 2017)

fearnoevil said:


> Roger on the milk solids. Have you tried a product called Ghee? You can buy it on Amazon and it's a traditional Indian food product, I think I read that it goes back over a thousand years, and is usually produced organically (and sometimes with Hindu prayers chanted during the making, although I've not been able to tell the difference ;?). It is delicious, supposed to be healthier, and has a very high smoke point making it great for fried foods.
> 
> I've got some of both so I'll try some in each product and see what the results are. Here's a link to check on the Ghee, the first is a large 32oz jar, the second is quite a bit cheaper for an 9oz jar.
> 
> ...


Ghee is clarified butter that has been heated high and long enough to drive out all the water. The extra heat in presence of milk solids gives ghee a light brown butter taste. If you live anywhere near an Indian market, they carry it. It might also be at whole foods too or other higher end market. Though it might not be sent with Hindu blessings.

I cook with it when I'm sauteing vegetables especially when I'm fixing an Indian dish. I make my own. I keeps for months. I don't know any Hindu prayers. I might to play some over the jars next time.


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## Fogdog (May 25, 2017)

An update on method.

I've used the immersion heater to decarb at 200 F (93 C) for 2 hours. The immersion heater is a matter of convenience. One can get the same results using water bath heated by other means. It requires more attention and fussing. For me, I'm processing pounds of weed into canna oil and so the extra hardware is worth it. 

Procedure:

1) Buds are snipped up with scissors and put into boil in bag, vaccum heat sealed and placed in 200 F water bath for 2 hrs. 
Note: Because decarb generates Carbon Dioxide during the reaction, the bags will start to float. A weighted grate over the bags to keep them from floating to the surface. The grate has legs and sits above the bottom of the water bath, creating space for the bags as they expand. 

2) After decarb, the weed is transferred into a mason jar, the jar is filled with coconut oil. I use 30 grams decarboxylated weed to 500 grams of coconut oil.

3) The jar is sealed and immersed in water bath. Water bath is heated to 190 F and jars are held at this temp for 2 hours.

4) The oil and weed slurry is poured through two layers of cheesecloth and allowed to drain. 

5) After dripping through cheesecloth stops, I use an orange juice hand operated press to squeeze out as much oil as I can. 
Note: This is surprisingly efficient. I've made several batches. I weigh out 1000 grams of oil (60 grams weed) and at the end, when I weigh the final product, I get back about 950 grams of cannabis-coconut oil or 90% yield. 

Four grams (1 teaspoon) of this oil gets me high for hours. But then again, I'm a lightweight.


I know I'm losing some terpenes through the bag during sous vide decarb because I can smell some terpenes in the water bath after decarb. Still, the end product from the above method (canna-coconut oil) has noticeable terpene smell when compared to oil from weed that has been decarboxylated in an oven at 240 for a half hour. Qualitatively, product from this sous vide decarb and oil only extraction procedure seems to me to be a lot stronger than oil made using oven decarb and oil with water extraction in a crock pot. There is still a strong smell in the house when I'm pressing the warm oil but only for a short time and not nearly as strong a smell as when I decarb in a pan in the oven at 240 F.


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## DirtyEyeball696 (Jul 3, 2017)

Tyleb173rd said:


> I can't have the smell in the house. We have young kids who have young friends. We can't have parents stopping by and smelling a decarboxylation going on.


Are you in a medical state? Have cards and all that? If that's case there's nothing to prosecute 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tyleb173rd (Jul 3, 2017)

DirtyEyeball696 said:


> Are you in a medical state? Have cards and all that? If that's case there's nothing to prosecute
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm in SE Michigan w/cards but we have young kids who have friends that are young kids. The last thing I need is one of the parents stopping by, unannounced, to check on their kids.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jul 24, 2017)

decarboxylation is very important for making canna COCONUT oil


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