# What is your faith and beliefs? What do you trust? Whats your spirituality? O.M.G.



## Nevaeh420 (Jun 4, 2013)

I know some of you are athiests but what do you put your faith and trust in? What are your beliefs? 

Science? Science cant save your soul, but you might believe it can. Or you might believe you dont need to be saved.

Dont get Me wrong, I'm a science aficionado but it doesnt explain spiritual things, IMO! (But spiritual things are subjective and science is objective.)

What do you believe to be absolutely true? Without a doubt, that "tickles" you?

We know Jesus or God can NOT be proven but what or Who can be?

Is there anyone alive that is worthy of worshipping? Why worship a dead person? ya know?

Do you believe Christ has come and is dead? Do you believe Christ is alive? Or do you believe Christ is coming back for us soon?

I actually believe I AM Christ, so I WAS dead, but I'm alive and I'm still coming soon. Lol, I'm serious!

If this was the making of a "modern Holy Book", what would you say to collaborate in the effort of making a "modern Bible"?

What do you think is worth meditating on?

Any religious convictions that are worthy of sharing?

What do you worship?

Can you prove what you believe? What is the infallible evidence? And why should I believe that too?

Whats some of the smartest things that you know that could enlighten knuckleheads like Me?

I'm Agnostic, but, as you all know, I believe that I AM the Son of God!

What do you know that could save the world?

I'll tell you what I believe that can save the world! Click on the link below! Take your time and read it all, it might take a few days though!

https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/600992-i-found-like-dozen-videos.html

If you want to read the rant about how I believe that I AM the Son of God, and ways to improve and save the world than click on the link above!

Lets make this an awsome thread and keep it clean, with lots of good information to try and make a worthy spiritual book about modern day man! You can share everything from your opinions, to science, to Scripture to prove your point! Whatever you want to do to prove your point! Whats worthy of a modern day Holy Book?

You can choose to answer one of these questions or all of them, its up to you, just keep it friendly!

What can you all teach Me?

~PEACE~


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## brotherjericho (Jun 4, 2013)

Why do I have to put my faith and trust in anything? I tend to trust friends and family, but not fully. They are human after all.


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 4, 2013)

brotherjericho said:


> Why do I have to put my faith and trust in anything?


You dont have to put your faith in anything, the question was for people that do. Plus, there are many other questions that I asked in the first post!

I dont know what I put My faith in... I'm kinda a "Christian" that does NOT believe in Jesus because I believe He is dead. I actually believe that I AM Christ Myself! I'm skeptical about Christianity because it has been largely debunked in My opinion but I believe in some of the spiritual things in the Scriptures of the Bible! I'm a little Agnostic too because I cant prove Gods existance but I believe in a God but I've never met God personally, so I cant be sure!

So I'm kinda on the fence. I want to believe in facts and not fairy tales!

~PEACE~


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## mindphuk (Jun 4, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> I know some of you are athiests but what do you put your faith and trust in? What are your beliefs?


Nothing deserves to have faith if we are using the religious definition of belief without evidence or reason. 


> Science? Science cant save your soul, but you might believe it can. Or you might believe you dont need to be saved.


One would first have to clearly define 'soul' then demonstrate it's existence before I would bother spending any time worrying about it. 


> Dont get Me wrong, I'm a science aficionado but it doesnt explain spiritual things, IMO! (But spiritual things are subjective and science is objective.)


Once again you have to define 'spiritual things' and demonstrate their existence. 


> What do you believe to be absolutely true? Without a doubt, that "tickles" you?


The only thing I can be absolutely sure of is my own existence. Everything else is decreasing levels of confidence. I'm pretty confident I live in a shared reality with other conscious beings.


> We know Jesus or God can NOT be proven but what or Who can be?


Absolute proof of anything is questionable. This is one reason why we don't use the word proof in science


> I actually believe I AM Christ, so I WAS dead, but I'm alive and I'm still coming soon. Lol, I'm serious!
> I dont know what I put My faith in... I'm kinda a "Christian" that does NOT believe in Jesus because I believe He is dead. I actually believe that I AM Christ Myself! I'm skeptical about Christianity because it has been largely debunked in My opinion but I believe in some of the spiritual things in the Scriptures of the Bible! I'm a little Agnostic too because I cant prove Gods existance but I believe in a God but I've never met God personally, so I cant be sure!


Christ is derived from the Greek Kristos which is the word used for the Hebrew messiah or moshiach. Messiah means annointed, it is basically a king and the Jews were waiting for the next King of Israel. There was no belief that this king would be anything more than a human man, blessed by god but not a god himself. It was Christianity that changed this idea to where the messiah was literally god's son. It is inconsistent to claim that Christianity has been largely debunked but continue to use Christian doctrine to support your delusion that you are the literal son of god. You're an idiot and no one wants to read your ramblings anymore. Quit spamming links to a thread that was shut down.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 4, 2013)

I know some of you are athiests but what do you put your faith and trust in? What are your beliefs? 

My parents and one friend I know from childhood are the only people I fully trust. What are my beliefs in what context?

Science? Science cant save your soul, but you might believe it can. Or you might believe you dont need to be saved.

Science is the best tool we have available to us to figure out reality. I don't believe in the 'soul'. I don't believe I need to be saved.

Dont get Me wrong, I'm a science aficionado but it doesnt explain spiritual things, IMO! (But spiritual things are subjective and science is objective.)

That is like saying "I'm a wine aficionado but it doesn't explain radio frequencies, IMO!". Science doesn't attempt to explain spirituality.

What do you believe to be absolutely true? Without a doubt, that "tickles" you?

Nothing is 'absolutely true', there only varying degrees of certainty

We know Jesus or God can NOT be proven but what or Who can be?

Anything that breaks natural laws that we know are universal constants we know cannot exist 

Is there anyone alive that is worthy of worshipping? Why worship a dead person? ya know?

Why would you choose to worship a person or an object, something material, when you can choose to worship concepts like peace and love? People make mistakes all the time.

Do you believe Christ has come and is dead? Do you believe Christ is alive? Or do you believe Christ is coming back for us soon?

No. Nope. I don't believe Christ ever came back or ever will again, I'm not even sure such a man ever existed in the first place

I actually believe I AM Christ, so I WAS dead, but I'm alive and I'm still coming soon. Lol, I'm serious!

You're delusional if you actually believe that. Here's a simple way to tell if you're Christ, we know what some of Jesus Christ's powers and abilities were, water to wine, walk on water, etc. go try that, can you do it? You're not Christ.

What would lead you to believe this?

If this was the making of a "modern Holy Book", what would you say to collaborate in the effort of making a "modern Bible"?

Commandments actually worth the paper they're written on, up to date scientific knowledge on human anatomy, biology, ethics and morality, sexuality and philosophy. That type of shit probably.. 

What do you think is worth meditating on?

I know some people get some benefit out of meditation, but I personally don't think it's worth my time

What do you worship?

I don't worship anything

Can you prove what you believe? What is the infallible evidence? And why should I believe that too?

Pretty much. A lot. I think you should believe what is true because if you go through life believing bullshit that's false, you're likely to cast votes to candidates that support bullshit, or give money to con artists or other bullshit artists

Whats some of the smartest things that you know that could enlighten knuckleheads like Me?

Do what I did.. think of the most amazing facts you can, then go find out how we found that out. You want to know how we know the universe is expanding, Google it and read about Edwin Hubble. You want to know how we know the Earth orbits the Sun, Google it and read all about Nicolaus Copernicus.. it gets even more interesting when all these little stories you read about intertwine with each other, when you read little seemingly ordinary pieces about how some of your favorite scientists who came up with some of the most important advancements in their field knew each other during their lifetimes and were friends.. 

Read. The more you read, the broader your interest will become, that's the definition of an educated man. 

I'm Agnostic, but, as you all know, I believe that I AM the Son of God!

That's not agnostic

What do you know that could save the world?

If people would face reality for what it is instead of make up things that make it easier to cope with and pretend they have all the answers to lifes impossible questions, but the pessimist in me thinks that train left the station way before I was born, so I'm personally not hopeful for the future

I'll tell you what I believe that can save the world! Click on the link below! Take your time and read it all, it might take a few days though!

https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/600992-i-found-like-dozen-videos.html

Nothing but crazy in that thread


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 4, 2013)

I will take a bite, faith is a celebrated mental condition. You can know only one external truth.....that you cant know. God as a concept is lazy, a remedy to the curious human to silence his own intellect about the nature of all that is. You are god? he hangs out in a chatroom with all the shit wrong with this world? he does not deserve worship. Worship yourself, serve others, teach your talents..


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 4, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> I know some of you are athiests but what do you put your faith and trust in? What are your beliefs?


I try not to have beliefs. Beliefs get rooted, beliefs cause hatred. I hold ideas, because ideas can change.



> Science? Science cant save your soul, but you might believe it can. Or you might believe you dont need to be saved.


There's nothing to suggest that souls exist. When you can demonstrate that souls exist we can discuss how to save them. We don't need talk about how to save "Fuzzy-whats-its" either...



> Dont get Me wrong, I'm a science aficionado but it doesnt explain spiritual things, IMO! (But spiritual things are subjective and science is objective.)


You are demonstrably not a science aficionado. Your statement about being scientifically minded, followed by a comment on 'spiritual things' is, in and of itself not scientific to its very core.



> What do you believe to be absolutely true? Without a doubt, that "tickles" you?


I exist, and I know it's not possible to prove it but I also believe (on faith I suppose, but don't get too excited N420; it's non-equivocal faith) that you all exist too. For the sake of the argument, I'm going to assume you all exist or else it's this conversation is pointless.



> We know Jesus or God can NOT be proven but what or Who can be?


If there is physical evidence to support someone's existence, it can be demonstrated that they exist. If there are multiple, non-contradictory pieces of literature, or documents that can have come from legitimate sources, they could also stand to prove the historical existence of someone. Using forensic evidence to determine if someone existed sometime in history is obviously much harder than if you have a living person or a body, or remains. 



> Is there anyone alive that is worthy of worshipping? Why worship a dead person? ya know?


No.


> Do you believe Christ has come and is dead? Do you believe Christ is alive? Or do you believe Christ is coming back for us soon?


I think there might have been a person with the name Jesus, but I don't think he was a magical zombie jew who rose from the dead. Do I really need to answer the second part?



> I actually believe I AM Christ, so I WAS dead, but I'm alive and I'm still coming soon. Lol, I'm serious!


I believe that you don't actually believe that. If you do, you should get some help. I'm serious.



> If this was the making of a "modern Holy Book", what would you say to collaborate in the effort of making a "modern Bible"?


I've already taken the liberty of combining all of the useful knowledge of the bible into one sentence;

*"Don't be a cunt."*



> What do you think is worth meditating on?


I don't meditate, but if I did it would probably be pornographic in nature. 



> Any religious convictions that are worthy of sharing?


I was raised a Baptist, and I went to bible camp and Sunday school at an early age until I was 10 when I figured out that it was a complete load of shit.



> What do you worship?


Nothing.



> Can you prove what you believe? What is the infallible evidence? And why should I believe that too?


It's not about proof. Proof implies absolute certainty. As I stated above; ideas are better because they can change without causing cognitive dissonance. 

I hold many ideas to be true to different levels. It's a spectrum of likelihood. I know I exist, and for the sake of argument, I'm all but certain you all exist. I'm slightly less certain, but still virtually 100%, that evolution is true and that we orbit the sun. It goes on and on with a huge list of things that I am _virtually _certain are true and gets to things that I'm not so sure about like alien life, and gravity, and string theory, etc.

It would take an astounding amount of evidence to contradict the _already astounding amount of evidence, in favor_ of the things I mentioned above to cause the slightest bit of uncertainty in those ideas I hold.



> Whats some of the smartest things that you know that could enlighten knuckleheads like Me?


"I know that I know nothing." - Socrates



> I'm Agnostic, but, as you all know, I believe that I AM the Son of God!


So, you don't know if god exists, but you have a messiah complex? Nice.



> What do you know that could save the world?


That god probably doesn't exist, so everyone should stop fucking fighting about it.



> I'll tell you what I believe that can save the world! Click on the link below! Take your time and read it all, it might take a few days though!
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/600992-i-found-like-dozen-videos.html
> 
> ...


There are some great people here who have some invaluable knowledge. If you're willing to listen, you can learn a lot.


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## NietzscheKeen (Jun 4, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> I try not to have beliefs. Beliefs get rooted, beliefs cause hatred. I hold ideas, because ideas can change.


Nicely put.  I hadn't really thought about it like that.


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## MISSPHOEBE (Jun 5, 2013)

There is nothing to believe in ........ except one thing.......... 

............................................................................


.............................GANJA!


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## cannawizard (Jun 5, 2013)

i spoke to jesus when i was on DMT, and he said he doesn't know how he got caught up in any religion.. then i saw a mechanical dwarf~ the end


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jun 5, 2013)

*I know some of you are athiests but what do you put your faith and trust in? What are your beliefs? 


*I put no sort of belief or faith in anything supernatural,If I were to believe in something it would be in my own capacity's and limits as a human being as well as the natural physical laws that govern life.
*
Science? Science cant save your soul, but you might believe it can. Or you might believe you dont need to be saved.*

Youre right Science cant save souls,, "souls" are not tangible to observation or test.soul has not been substantiated on any sustainable level.

*Dont get Me wrong, I'm a science aficionado but it doesnt explain spiritual things, IMO! (But spiritual things are subjective and science is objective.)
*You a science afficionado?lol ,,,U may appreciate and like science,but you still dont seem to take into account the execution of its principles.
*What do you believe to be absolutely true? Without a doubt, that "tickles" you?*
I cant say that I believe in anything to be absolutely true.There are things that hold the highest probability to be true.But absolutes are another man made device that tricks the mind into beliefs.

*We know Jesus or God can NOT be proven but what or Who can be?
*Well a man named Jesus was crucified during the days of the Roman Empire,there are actual documents of his horrible demise that much can be proven but as for all of the other supernatural stuff that is described around the time of his death,I vest no thought into it.As far as God goes,there is still nothing of credible evidence.
*Is there anyone alive that is worthy of worshipping? Why worship a dead person? ya know?
*No,Just simply No.Worship is infatuative and obsessive as well as unhealthy for the mind.Showing great respect to someone is as far as I would go.
*Do you believe Christ has come and is dead? Do you believe Christ is alive? Or do you believe Christ is coming back for us soon?
*No.
*I actually believe I AM Christ, so I WAS dead, but I'm alive and I'm still coming soon. Lol, I'm serious!
*I dont think any reasonable mind will take you seriously when you say stuff like this,,,ever.
*If this was the making of a "modern Holy Book", what would you say to collaborate in the effort of making a "modern Bible"?
*Hold no bias opinions.Observe everything and question its function.Study and test assertions for consistency.Make no unmeritted assumptions.
*What do you think is worth meditating on?
*There are a great deal of things worth meditating on in life,not to sound selfish,but the most important thing to meditate on in life is yourself and how you perceive the world,I would say the search for true clarity of mind.
*Any religious convictions that are worthy of sharing?
*Religious convictions?I have none,I feel no need for any religion personaly.

*What do you worship?*Question already asked and answered.
*Can you prove what you believe? What is the infallible evidence? And why should I believe that too?
*I can not and will not tell you why you should believe in anything,though I suggest doing less believing and more atudy of the scientific method of observation.
*Whats some of the smartest things that you know that could enlighten knuckleheads like Me?

*Check your A.D.D. at the door when you go to a library.
*
I'm Agnostic, but, as you all know, I believe that I AM the Son of God!
*Ya,,,,,Agnostic Son of God,,,,right......And I am one of the elves from the North pole.
*What do you know that could save the world?
*We have the ability to think for ourselves.People should strive to excersize the mind and improve their own thinking process.This meaning dont be a lazy minded person it leads to acceptance of BS from all directions.
*I'll tell you what I believe that can save the world! Click on the link below! Take your time and read it all, it might take a few days though!
*ya,been there plenty enough. Im not going to revisit it.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 5, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> Nicely put.  I hadn't really thought about it like that.


Can't remember where I read that.... stuck with me though!


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## tyler.durden (Jun 5, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Can't remember where I read that.... stuck with me though!


That line of of thinking is directly from the Book of Zaehet Strife


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 5, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> That line of of thinking is directly from the Book of Zaehet Strife


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## tyler.durden (Jun 5, 2013)

^^ I like Chris, hard to believe that's really his quote based on the interviews I remember. I've seen similar sentiment elsewhere, but I read it most in Z's posts. It seems like a matter of semantics between these two words 'belief' and 'idea'. We all hold both: ideas (thoughts and conceptions) that we like to play around with and to which we subjectively ascribe a certain degree of validity, and beliefs, i.e. ideas we hold to be true at the present time. I think we all believe that the sun will come up tomorrow morning, or that when we drop something heavy it will fall toward the ground, even though there is the possibility that these things may not happen. It seems to me that some people prefer to say that they hold ideas, but not beliefs. I think that would be a difficult, if not impossible, way to live. It seems that some of these people fear committing to the fact that they hold beliefs, as they could then be wrong. I don't have a problem being wrong, I simply feel the sting and then adjust my viewpoint accordingly. Your thoughts?


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## Zaehet Strife (Jun 6, 2013)

I couldn't have said it any better myself Tyler. I feel the same way about that, as i feel about the fallowing quote from one of the most influential people in my life;
_
"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything and there are many things i don't know anything about." _

Am i required to believe or even have an idea that i don't know something if i don't know it? Do you have to become conscious of knowing you don't know something in order to not know it?

I don't think so, i think we don't know a lot of things, regardless if we are aware of it or not. 

But think about it, if you are an american and you grew up in america, how were you raised if you went to a public school? That being wrong is bad. Being wrong will get you laughed at by everyone that surrounds you. Being wrong will get you criticized, chastised, made fun of. Society has molded us into animals who are aware that being wrong... is not a good thing, and can embarrass us, it can hurt us physically and mentally depending on the situation. 

It is no big surprise to me, that so many people hold onto beliefs as tight as they possibly can_... _because to be wrong about something, can be the most embarrassing, hurtful and painful thing in our lives, especially if it is an idea that dictates how we live our lives or an idea that gives us a sense of purpose and meaning in our lives. 

In short, in order to escape the pain of accepting that we might be wrong about our supernatural beliefs (beliefs in which no physical proof can be shared with one another)... we are required to pretend that we are certain of them. And I, for one, am so tired, just so tired... of pretending.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 6, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> ^^ I like Chris, hard to believe that's really his quote based on the interviews I remember. I've seen similar sentiment elsewhere, but I read it most in Z's posts. It seems like a matter of semantics between these two words 'belief' and 'idea'. We all hold both: ideas (thoughts and conceptions) that we like to play around with and to which we subjectively ascribe a certain degree of validity, and beliefs, i.e. ideas we hold to be true at the present time. I think we all believe that the sun will come up tomorrow morning, or that when we drop something heavy it will fall toward the ground, even though there is the possibility that these things may not happen. It seems to me that some people prefer to say that they hold ideas, but not beliefs. I think that would be a difficult, if not impossible, way to live. It seems that some of these people fear committing to the fact that they hold beliefs, as they could then be wrong. I don't have a problem being wrong, I simply feel the sting and then adjust my viewpoint accordingly. Your thoughts?


It was from the movie Dogma... lol Not actually Chris Rock's opinion, but the opinion of Rufus, the 13th apostle. 

I love Kevin Smith! Another quote from the movie;

Bethany: You knew Jesus?
Rufus: Knew him? Shit... Nigga owes me 12 bucks.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 6, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> You dont have to put your faith in anything, the question was for people that do. Plus, there are many other questions that I asked in the first post!
> 
> I dont know what I put My faith in... I'm kinda a "Christian" that does NOT believe in Jesus because I believe He is dead. I actually believe that I AM Christ Myself! I'm skeptical about Christianity because it has been largely debunked in My opinion but I believe in some of the spiritual things in the Scriptures of the Bible! I'm a little Agnostic too because I cant prove Gods existance but I believe in a God but I've never met God personally, so I cant be sure!
> 
> ...


I think you and this guy should have a deathmatch to decide who is Jesus, once and for all. He already has followers and a compound, what do you have?

I mean, what could be more Christian than a bloody, gruesome battle?


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 6, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> I think you and this guy should have a deathmatch to decide who is Jesus, once and for all. He already has followers and a compound, what do you have?
> 
> I mean, what could be more Christian than a bloody, gruesome battle?


I dont have anything special. I own a house and a vehicle and some toys and tools. I dont have much. 

The difference from Me and the "other" Christ POSERS is that I'm not trying to start a cult. I dont want a cult. Dont get Me wrong, I want "followers" but I'm not worthy to be worshipped. The "followers" that I want are just people that will share in My goal of setting up a utopia here on earth. I have spoken what I want to do, in the link below, to set up Gods Kingdom on earth!

https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/600992-i-found-like-dozen-videos.html

In the above link, I talk about how I want to terraform this sad planet into something real special. Its a long read, it might take a few days to read all the content and to watch all the videos but I guarantee you will learn a bunch of novel inventions on how to implement Gods Kingdom.

Another difference between Me and the Christ posers is that I dont tell anyone in person about My personal beliefs. I believe I have some wonderful notions that could save the world and make it a trillion times better and I felt that I had to share it with someone so I made a thread with most of My beliefs and notions about Gods Kingdom.

It may just be My Messiah complex, but I do believe that if My ideas get in the right hands than the ideas could terraform this planet and setup a utopia for all people. I'm just trying to reach a few people that are in positions to do something about the atrocities present in the world today. Whats a better way of reaching people than through the world wide web? My goal is to make everyone very rich and optimize resources and get rid of pollution and build as many mansions as possible, whether they are on LAND, UNDERGROUND, SKYSKRAPERS, UNDERWATER, FLOATING ON THE OCEAN, UNDER THE OCEAN FLOOR OR IN SPACE!

Basically I just want to help. I dont want a cult and I dont want to be worshipped because I'm not worthy of it, but I do want to help in My pecular way. My Messiah complex could just be a delusion but read that link above from "cover to cover" and than let Me know where My bad intentions are. I'm not claiming to be infallible, rather far from it, but I do have some exceptional notions about how to heal the land and people. 

It might all be a delusion that I can actually help the world but what if I had some real power to implement My notions like A ONE WORLD ONLINE GOVERNMENT? What would happen if the people had 99% of the power to choose and vote on legislation via their computers from home or where ever? What if we, the people, could vote on every law? This idea alone would revolutionize the planet as we know it!

I'm NOT Jesus and I dont want to be, but I do believe God is My Daddy! I do believe that I AM the Son of God! But thats just My belief and it might never turn into something other than a strange belief.

I'm the least among you all and I'm very humble but why cant the world go with the best ideas exclusivly and implement only the best? Get the best and forget the rest! I want the best for Myself and every creature, thats all. I see injustice all around and someone needs to do something about it all. Wheres a better place to preach peace than on the internet?




~PEACE~


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## tyler.durden (Jun 6, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> I think you and this guy should have a deathmatch to decide who is Jesus, once and for all. He already has followers and a compound, what do you have?
> 
> I mean, what could be more Christian than a bloody, gruesome battle?


This guy gets winner...

[video=youtube;vwyFvIsoAnw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwyFvIsoAnw[/video]


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 6, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> He already has followers and a compound, what do you have?
> ?


If a person is deemed to be Jesus by the amount of cult followers they have then go figure.

This Russian guy that claims to be Jesus has ~5,000 followers.

[youtube]W2Cv5hZfOmk[/youtube]

This Puerto Rican American guy claims to be Jesus and has thousands of followers too!

[youtube]WjIrMegmAZg[/youtube]

~PEACE~


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## tyler.durden (Jun 6, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> It may just be My Messiah complex, but I do believe that if My ideas get in the right hands than the ideas could terraform this planet and setup a utopia for all people. I'm just trying to reach a few people that are in positions to do something about the atrocities present in the world today. Whats a better way of reaching people than through the world wide web? My goal is to make everyone very rich and optimize resources and get rid of pollution and build as many mansions as possible, whether they are on LAND, UNDERGROUND, SKYSKRAPERS, UNDERWATER, FLOATING ON THE OCEAN, UNDER THE OCEAN FLOOR OR IN SPACE!


I don't believe any of your ideas are original to you. The people of means that may implement these ideas would want finished plans to assure these technologies would work and not negatively impact our planet. What research have you done to assure these things? Any joker can have ideas, the work comes from making those plans viable, do you have schematics to implement them? If not, you're no different than any idiot on the street with an idea...


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## tyler.durden (Jun 6, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> If a person is deemed to be Jesus by the amount of cult followers they have then go figure.
> 
> This Russian guy that claims to be Jesus has ~5,000 followers.
> 
> ...


Yep, no shortage of idiots in the world. If these morons have followers and you do not, what do you think that says about you?


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 6, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Yep, no shortage of idiots in the world. If these morons have followers and you do not, what do you think that says about you?


It says that I'm not a cult leader.

Tyler, do you have cult followers? And would you want any? What does that say about you?

Tyler, do you think Jesus was a cult leader? Lol 

~PEACE~


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 6, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> It says that I'm not a cult leader.
> 
> Tyler, do you have cult followers? And would you want any? What does that say about you?
> 
> ...


What do you hope to gain by telling people that you are the son of god? What do you hope to gain by telling people your ideas? Sounds to me like you're trying to foster a following...


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## tyler.durden (Jun 6, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> It says that I'm not a cult leader.
> 
> Tyler, do you have cult followers? And would you want any? What does that say about you?
> 
> ...


Nothing special about me, I'm just an ordinary guy. Just like BB stated, you are constantly claiming your divinity and pointing people at your thread to gain followers, or at least believers. You've been successful at neither, so my question still remains, what does that say about you?


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 6, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> What do you hope to gain by telling people that you are the son of god? What do you hope to gain by telling people your ideas? Sounds to me like you're trying to foster a following...


I just want to be honest and I want to be who I am.

I obviously dont have anything to gain by telling people that I AM the Son of God or My ideas (besides grief). I was hoping that someone else would learn from what I have to offer and expand on it. Yes, maybe an online following, but not in person. Also, I'm not trying to start a cult but rather an information revelation or revolution. My goal is to take My ideas and pass them on to people that will also pass it on, until a revolution breaks forth. Not a violent revolution but one of peace and to strive for a utopia of sorts. To replace these governments with an optimal one thats dictated by we, the people via our computers.

I believe I have some revolutionary concepts that should be payed attention to by astute patriots. I'm trying to rally the troops into battle against any rogue governments that opress their peoples. I could care less about religion, but we are spiritual people and I am too. I might have more to lose than to gain, claiming that I AM the Son of God, but whatever, it is what it is. I would rather follow anyways, rather than lead because its more work trying to lead. I just dont know who I should follow that has dreams and ambitions like I do. 

So, I'm not trying to start a cult, but a call to war against any rogue governments that get in the way of the peoples rights. I post on the internet because I want the right person to read what I have to say and maybe they can do something about it. Of course I want people to read what I post, and if thats your definition of a following to you than I guess it might be. But dont we all post to get our post read?

I am a freedom fighter more than anything, but I do say that I AM the Son of God because I believe it to be so!

~PEACE~


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 6, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Nothing special about me, I'm just an ordinary guy. Just like BB stated, you are constantly claiming your divinity and pointing people at your thread to gain followers, or at least believers. You've been successful at neither, so my question still remains, what does that say about you?


It says that I too am an ordinary guy like you except I have this Messiah complex too!

~PEACE~


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## tyler.durden (Jun 6, 2013)

Nevaeh420 - I just want to be honest and I want to be who I am.

I obviously dont have anything to gain by telling people that I AM the Son of God or My ideas (besides grief). I was hoping that someone else would learn from what I have to offer and expand on it. Yes, maybe an online following, but not in person. Also, I'm not trying to start a cult but rather an information revelation or revolution. My goal is to take My ideas and pass them on to people that will also pass it on, until a revolution breaks forth. Not a violent revolution but one of peace and to strive for a utopia of sorts. To replace these governments with an optimal one thats dictated by we, the people via our computers.

The gain from claiming divinity is that you get to feel special without acquiring any real skills, it's simply the feeding of your ego. 

I believe I have some revolutionary concepts that should be payed attention to by astute patriots. I'm trying to rally the troops into battle against any rogue governments that opress their peoples. I could care less about religion, but we are spiritual people and I am too. I might have more to lose than to gain, claiming that I AM the Son of God, but whatever, it is what it is. I would rather follow anyways, rather than lead because its more work trying to lead. I just dont know who I should follow that has dreams and ambitions like I do. 

What makes you think your ideas are revolutionary, have you even googled them to see if they were around before you discovered them?

So, I'm not trying to start a cult, but a call to war against any rogue governments that get in the way of the peoples rights. I post on the internet because I want the right person to read what I have to say and maybe they can do something about it. Of course I want people to read what I post, and if thats your definition of a following to you than I guess it might be. But dont we all post to get our post read?

I am a freedom fighter more than anything, but I do say that I AM the Son of God because I believe it to be so!


~PEACE~


Why not rally against the US government's impinging on the rights of its own citizens? There are also millions of starving children in the US, why not start at home?


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## tyler.durden (Jun 6, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> It says that I too am an ordinary guy like you except I have this Messiah complex too!
> 
> ~PEACE~


So are you admitting that you're not really Christ, the son of god?


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 6, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> The gain from claiming divinity is that you get to feel special without acquiring any real skills, it's simply the feeding of your ego. ?




If you want to think that than ok.



tyler.durden said:


> What makes you think your ideas are revolutionary, have you even googled them to see if they were around before you discovered them??


I have not googled them because I came up with the novel ideas on My own and therefore they are most likely far out there and maybe novel. Its not really a big deal to Me. I came up with most of My ideas on My own and thats what matters to Me.



tyler.durden said:


> Why not rally against the US government's impinging on the rights of its own citizens? There are also millions of starving children in the US, why not start at home?


When I say "rogue governments", I'm actually including the USA too because its obviously rogue, but I like to be vague when talking about overthrowing governments! 

I am starting at home! I'm at home right now. If I'm making a post, Im most likely at home. I know what you mean though, I do care about americans too and not just people on a global level. But there is little to nothing I can do besides type My stance on things from My laptop! I dont have the money to get everyone out of debt or feed all the hungry people. I wish I could but My name is not Bill Gates. 



tyler.durden said:


> So are you admitting that you're not really Christ, the son of god?


I'm admitting that I am human, and I have many flaws. I'm a person and not the best at that. 

If I was NOT crazy than I would say I'm just a normal person, and I am a normal person but I have this Christ complex too. Very few seemed to believe Me when I say it so I dont bother saying it. What difference would I make if I was Christ or not? The only difference I could think of is power. I want the power so I can give it away to an ONLINE GOVERNMENT! But I have little power compared to the elites and all I can do is bitch about the worlds problems, hoping someone will hear Me. But if I had the power, I would not abuse the power I would deligate it out! 

Its a big delusion for Me to think that I AM Christ but at the same time, I have seen the evidence and I believe it. But is it really a delusion or am I really Christ? Thats My problem, I actually believe that I AM the Son of God and I dont think I'm delusional but to most other people, they would say Jesus is the Christ! And Jesus is coming back, not George Manuel Oliveira. 

Just be glad that you dont have a messiah complex. I dont really mind Myself because its been like this since I turned 23 years old or ~5 years now. 

So NO, I'm not admitting that I'm not Christ! I still do believe with futility!

Christ loves you!

~PEACE~


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## theleach (Jun 6, 2013)

WHO DO I TRUST?!? ME ! tHATS WHO


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 6, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> I'm admitting that I'm a person and not the best at that.
> 
> If I was NOT crazy that I would say I'm just a normal person, and I am a normal person
> 
> ...


There.... that makes more sense 'edited'. Just have to read between the lines.


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## skuba (Jun 7, 2013)

Everyone gets sidetracked by all these religious leaders or wannabe Christ figures, scriptures and the like. 
If you don't know about your spirit, you just don't know about it. there's no science to prove it, and not everything in the universe can be logically explained or defined. 
Just because something can't be measured doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and the fact that you haven't perceived it doesn't make it nonexistent either. 
The spirit is felt, not thought up.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 7, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> If you want to think that than ok.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How can you justify saying that you've seen the evidence that you're the reincarnation of Jesus Christ and you believe it when we've explicitly pointed out the flaws in your reasoning, the fact that many other people all throughout history and even today claim to be the son of God, that the idea of Christianity, and indeed all organized religion, is inconsistent with reality and that you are experiencing delusions of grandeur, are portraying narcissistic tendencies, and combined, these, with many other things you've shown that I didn't bother to mention, can and have lead to serious tragedies?


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## tyler.durden (Jun 7, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> How can you justify saying that you've seen the evidence that you're the reincarnation of Jesus Christ and you believe it when we've explicitly pointed out the flaws in your reasoning, the fact that many other people all throughout history and even today claim to be the son of God, that the idea of Christianity, and indeed all organized religion, is inconsistent with reality and that you are experiencing delusions of grandeur, are portraying narcissistic tendencies, and combined, these, with many other things you've shown that I didn't bother to mention, can and have lead to serious tragedies?


I think this is the longest question I've ever read


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 7, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> I think this is the longest question I've ever read


UUuuuuuugghghhhh!

Didn't even notice that shit til' you pointed it out! That is one long, grammatically and structurally correct sentence if I've ever written one! Or is it!?


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 7, 2013)

skuba said:


> Everyone gets sidetracked by all these religious leaders or wannabe Christ figures, scriptures and the like.
> If you don't know about your spirit, you just don't know about it. there's no science to prove it, and not everything in the universe can be logically explained or defined.
> Just because something can't be measured doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and the fact that you haven't perceived it doesn't make it nonexistent either.
> The spirit is felt, not thought up.


Things that exist need to have physical properties. What role does the spirit play? 

Perhaps a better question is; what does the spirit 'do' that we haven't already attributed to something else physical? 
When do we get our spirits? 
Do they magically appear into the fetus at conception? 
Maybe the fetus gets a spirit after the first trimester? 
At which exact point does the spirit manifest? 
Do animals have spirits? 
If not, at what point during evolution did we develop a spirit? 

Some more questions;

Humans are wrong about so many feelings we have; someone is behind us, someone is watching us, gut feelings, etc., but we can prove that these feelings are just that; feelings. They do not have a direct correlation with reality (anymore than a statistical anomaly).

How do you know that when you're 'feeling' your soul, you're not actually incorrectly attributing the stimulation to what you _want _to believe? 


You are correct, just because we can't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, BUT if the soul is a tangible thing, and manifests itself in reality, it is measurable to some extent. We might not know how to yet, but if it interacts with the physical reality in any way, it is measurable. 

If it doesn't interact with the physical world in any way, i.e. doesn't affect our decisions, or is unable to cause causal reactions in the universe, then for all intents and purposes, it might as well be non-existent. It would certainly share all the properties with something that doesn't exist... non-detectable, doesn't affect reality, etc.

I could make the exact same argument for anything imaginary. 

The universe is actually made of invisible, vibrating, pink unicorns. They're immeasurable and invisible, but if you're perceptive you can feel them. I can't teach you how to feel them, you either can or you can't. 

It doesn't necessarily mean that invisible, vibrating, pink unicorns *don't *exist, but it certainly gives us no reason to believe they *do* exist. Until you can show positive evidence that spirits or souls do exist, all your doing is showing we can't disprove them; which is a piss poor reason to believe something exists, or we'd all believe in magical, vibrating, pink unicorns.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 7, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> UUuuuuuugghghhhh!
> 
> Didn't even notice that shit til' you pointed it out! That is one long, grammatically and structurally correct sentence if I've ever written one! Or is it!?


WAAAAAYYYYYY too many and's. LOL


How can you justify saying that you've seen the evidence that you're the reincarnation of Jesus Christ *and *you believe it when we've explicitly pointed out the flaws in your reasoning, the fact that many other people all throughout history *and *even today claim to be the son of God, that the idea of Christianity, *and *indeed all organized religion, is inconsistent with reality *and *that you are experiencing delusions of grandeur, are portraying narcissistic tendencies, *and *combined, these, with many other things you've shown that I didn't bother to mention, can and have lead to serious tragedies?"


How can you justify saying that you've seen the evidence that you're the reincarnation of Jesus Christ and you believe it when we've explicitly pointed out the flaws in your reasoning? The facts are; many other people all throughout history and even today claim to be the son of God; the idea of Christianity and indeed all organized religion, is inconsistent with reality; you are experiencing delusions of grandeur; _and _you're also portraying narcissistic tendencies. Combined, these with many other things you've shown, that I didn't bother to mention, can and have lead to serious tragedies?"

Edited, "Bisquit" style!


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## mindphuk (Jun 7, 2013)

skuba said:


> Everyone gets sidetracked by all these religious leaders or wannabe Christ figures, scriptures and the like.
> If you don't know about your spirit, you just don't know about it.


considering that spirit and similar words like soul have no single. clear, consistent meaning, it doesn't surprise me that people don't know about it/them.


> there's no science to prove it, and not everything in the universe can be logically explained or defined.


There's nothing available to prove it, science or not. How do you know not everything can be logically explained? Everything should be able to be defined, otherwise it's no use even discussing it since as I point out, definitions are altered to suit the situation which renders any actual discussion about them meaningless. 


> Just because something can't be measured doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and the fact that you haven't perceived it doesn't make it nonexistent either.
> The spirit is felt, not thought up.


If something is unmeasured, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. However, if something is unmeasurable, then it has the same effective qualities as non-existence so what's the point in positing such a thing? Anything 'felt' must be measurable. The act of feeling something is a form of measurement.


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## cannawizard (Jun 7, 2013)

Does it really have to have physical properties for it to exist? (regarding the whole "spirit" question)

Maybe science just hasn't figure it out yet, I think with enough time, science should be able to~


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## mindphuk (Jun 7, 2013)

cannawizard said:


> Does it really have to have physical properties for it to exist? (regarding the whole "spirit" question


Define 'existence.' Abstractions can exist but do they have any affect on things in reality? Do they exist in the same way that actual physical things exist? 


> Maybe science just hasn't figure it out yet, I think with enough time, science should be able to~


Science would need some guidelines in order to figure anything out. Considering the shifting, nebulous definitions of spirit, I think that task would be difficult.


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## cannawizard (Jun 7, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> Define 'existence.' Abstractions can exist but do they have any affect on things in reality? Do they exist in the same way that actual physical things exist?
> 
> Science would need some guidelines in order to figure anything out. Considering the shifting, nebulous definitions of spirit, I think that task would be difficult.


hhmm.. maybe "existence" as in "dimensions" per say.. Lol , not really sure how to go about this~

the task would be difficult indeed, but i'm pretty sure we can pull it off later on.. i mean, we did start from cavemen-- now we can split atoms.. just an optimistic viewpoint


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## skuba (Jun 7, 2013)

It's your life-force babypop, plants and animals got em too


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## mindphuk (Jun 7, 2013)

skuba said:


> It's your life-force babypop, plants and animals got em too


Is this supposed to be a useful definition or merely another attribute that itself has no actual meaning? What is 'life-force' and can you demonstrate it?


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## cannawizard (Jun 7, 2013)

do robots have "life force" ? or does it only apply to organic matter? (unless its a cyborg..)


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## Reklaw (Jun 7, 2013)

I believe.. in myself..


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## cannawizard (Jun 7, 2013)

Reklaw said:


> I believe.. in myself..


thats deep..


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 7, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> How can you justify saying that you've seen the evidence that you're the reincarnation of Jesus Christ and you believe it when we've explicitly pointed out the flaws in your reasoning, the fact that many other people all throughout history and even today claim to be the son of God, that the idea of Christianity, and indeed all organized religion, is inconsistent with reality and that you are experiencing delusions of grandeur, are portraying narcissistic tendencies, and combined, these, with many other things you've shown that I didn't bother to mention, can and have lead to serious tragedies?


Its just My beliefs in Myself!

I'm nothing close to perfect but for some reason I believe that I AM the Life. 

I dont know if you all can exist without Me- the Life!

It sounds delusional, and it might be, but what if?

We will all find out when I die, if there is life after death. If there is life than good, if not than I told you so! Either way, it doesnt matter because how can you prove anything to a dead person or if everyone dies?

Christ says, "I AM the Beginning and THE END!"

(But) I will be with you all always, even unto death!

Whats going to happen to your universe when you all die? Think about it!

I believe I AM the One that keeps everything together. Holding you!

What is the purpose if we all are going to die anyways? Who really wins or loses? What was everything for at THE END?

I dont need to prove anything to anyone, I already did. Whats the point if we all die in THE END? Wheres the reward after?

This might sound deep but its very real questions that no one seems to have an accurate answer for because its unknowable! But let Me know if there is life after I die. Lol... Until then, I AM the Life!

~PEACE~


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## tyler.durden (Jun 7, 2013)

Nevaeh420Its just My beliefs in Myself!

I'm nothing close to perfect but for some reason I believe that I AM the Life. 

The reason seems to be that you have a chemical imbalance that is very common. As you know, there are meds and therapies to help you manage your delusion.

I dont know if you all can exist without Me- the Life!

If you really think this may be true, ask yourself how the world existed before you were born. Or did we all spring into existence the moment you were conceived?

It sounds delusional, and it might be, but what if?

If you are delusional, you are missing out on your one and only shot at experiencing most of the beauty and wonder this life has to offer. That's a steep price for a petty delusion. Also, if it's delusional (and we all agree that it is) we are free to not take anything you have to say seriously, so that's a time saver...

We will all find out when I die, if there is life after death. If there is life than good, if not than I told you so! Either way, it doesnt matter because how can you prove anything to a dead person or if everyone dies?

When you die, all else will go on but you won't know it. Because you'll be dead...

Christ says, "I AM the Beginning and THE END!"

(But) I will be with you all always, even unto death!

He said a LOT of shit. He was never big on clarity...

Whats going to happen to your universe when you all die? Think about it!

We have thought about it more than you have. The universe doesn't miss anything much, it'll be fine. You have to understand, there's a _lot_ of stuff in it...

I believe I AM the One that keeps everything together. Holding you!

That's a part of the delusion we discussed earlier...

What is the purpose if we all are going to die anyways? Who really wins or loses? What was everything for at THE END?

I'm tired of this line of reasoning. The END is not the point, the only point is NOW. We don't avoid a killer party because it will end, we go because of the fun we'll have while we're there. Everything ends, most likely including the universe itself. That's why it's so important to live for now, not some supposed after-life. You have to shed your delusion and live fully NOW. Life is a great gift, don't waste it on nonsense...

I dont need to prove anything to anyone, I already did.

You haven't proven anything to anyone; not to us, not your family, not one single person. And you know it, so just stop...

Whats the point if we all die in THE END? Wheres the reward after?

We've been over this, don't be scared...

This might sound deep but its very real questions that no one seems to have an accurate answer for because its unknowable! But let Me know if there is life after I die. Lol... Until then, I AM the Life!

It's not deep, it's remedial philosophy at best. Step into scientific knowledge and reality to see how incredible things really are...

~PEACE~[/QUOTE]


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 7, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Nevaeh420Its just My beliefs in Myself!
> 
> I'm nothing close to perfect but for some reason I believe that I AM the Life.
> 
> ...


Lol, you make some good points but your funny too bro!

I dont care, I dont care, I dont care.

When I'm dead I'll be dead. But we are all going to die.

What are the chances of being alive verses dead? That should say something about how special life is!

~PEACE~


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## tyler.durden (Jun 7, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Lol, you make some good points but your funny too bro!
> 
> I dont care, I dont care, I dont care.
> 
> ...


Your best post yet


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 8, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Its just My beliefs in Myself!
> 
> I'm nothing close to perfect but for some reason I believe that I AM the Life.
> 
> ...


Fucking awesome, T.D..... Can't give you rep, but I'm mentally jerking you off right now. lol


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## NietzscheKeen (Jun 8, 2013)

I should be keeping up with this thread better. There is lots of good stuff on here.


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## skuba (Jun 8, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> Is this supposed to be a useful definition or merely another attribute that itself has no actual meaning? What is 'life-force' and can you demonstrate it?


It's what animates the material nature. You know the difference between dead and alive. The definition for "energy" or "force" doesn't fit it, so we have "spirit."


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## NietzscheKeen (Jun 8, 2013)

I know this is a bit off topic and I'm not trying to derail anything, but I wanted to share this because I thought it was very cool. When I speak of evidence of MY god, this is one of the things I'm talking about. The more I work to understand "him" the more I'm amazed and awed. The order behind all things in this universe. I hope this may give you the same "spiritual" feelings it gave me. 

[video=youtube;wvJAgrUBF4w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvJAgrUBF4w[/video]


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 8, 2013)

skuba said:


> It's what animates the material nature. You know the difference between dead and alive. The definition for "energy" or "force" doesn't fit it, so we have "spirit."


'Spirit' is a synonym for 'soul', neither have been shown to exist. It's a word for a religious concept, the idea that something lives on after your physical self dies.


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## skuba (Jun 8, 2013)

Well that's always been the question, where does it go after death. that's where people bring these stories or theories out, religions are made. you're alive man, you have cell and brain function, your heart pumps, your lungs breathe. you're concsious. not all of that is due to your brain.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 8, 2013)

skuba said:


> Well that's always been the question, where does it go after death. that's where people bring these stories or theories out, religions are made. you're alive man, you have cell and brain function, your heart pumps, your lungs breathe. you're concsious. not all of that is due to your brain.


Of course it is. You've entered into the arena of biology and human anatomy, it is a fact that your brain is responsible for every single physical function of your body. 

Consciousness is simply a result of the circumstances that brought us together, you could say it was inevitable. This is, in my opinion, one of the most amazing facts about the universe and indeed, all of existence; trillions of inanimate atoms came together in such a way to work together to be able to ask questions about _themselves_. 

This is far greater than the idea of any man made god.


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## NietzscheKeen (Jun 8, 2013)

skuba said:


> Well that's always been the question, where does it go after death. that's where people bring these stories or theories out, religions are made. you're alive man, you have cell and brain function, your heart pumps, your lungs breathe. you're concsious. not all of that is due to your brain.


WTF?!?!? It absolutely is.....

OUCH Jesus! That last sentence hurt me deep in my soul i.e. the seat of my emotions i.e. my brain (more or less). We can do some simple thought experiments to determine where the soul is and isn't, if you'd like? 

Help yourself to a neuroscience class. I will send you my old text books if you'd like. There is nothing about us as humans or any other animals that cannot be explained completely by brain function and/or the nervous and adrenal system.

Just do a jstor search or go to your nearest university library and head to the journal section if you want evidence.


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## mindphuk (Jun 8, 2013)

skuba said:


> It's what animates the material nature. You know the difference between dead and alive. The definition for "energy" or "force" doesn't fit it, so we have "spirit."


The problem is that we know much about how living things move, metabolize and so forth. There is no magical life-force or unknown energy operating here. You are making an existential claim. I ask you to define and identify it and all you give me is a restatement of a description. You have not actually defined anything or demonstrated this is anything real and exists. 

Do YOU know the difference between alive and not alive? Are you able to make a clear cut division or is it a blurry line depending on our definitions? 

http://www.ted.com/talks/martin_hanczyc_the_line_between_life_and_not_life. html

[video=youtube;dySwrhMQdX4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dySwrhMQdX4[/video]


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 8, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> This is far greater than the idea of any man made god.


Yes, there are man made gods but God made man.

Science can not answer the question of how and why did everything come to being? You might say the big bang, but who engineered it? Why and how did everything come from nothing? And what or who was before that? 

Basically I know that an intelligent designer created everything and I call Him God. I believe He always was and is now and forever will be. You all know that there is a higher power, even if its aliens. Not that aliens are God but aliens are most likely far more higher and powerful. I believe God lives inside each one of us. I also believe we are gods in a VERY FUNNY WAY! Not that we are God but rather His children. 

We just dont know what or who created everything and why. You might think you know but your entitled to your OPINION!

~PEACE~


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 8, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Yes, there are man made gods but God made man.
> 
> Science can not answer the question of how and why did everything come to being? You might say the big bang, but who engineered it? Why and how did everything come from nothing? And what or who was before that?
> 
> ...



You can't fathom that the universe might have always existed, it's not acceptable to you. Yet, your argument is based upon the assertion that a deity has always existed.

Do you realize how *retarded *that is? 

Cut god out of the equation, and say the universe has always existed. No need for the supernatural at all.

Human things need creators, things in nature do not.


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 8, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> You can't fathom that the universe might have always existed, it's not acceptable to you. Yet, your argument is based upon the assertion that a deity has always existed.
> 
> Do you realize how *retarded *that is?
> 
> ...


I believe in a multiverse; Where universes pop in and out of existance like stars do. The multiverse might have almost "always" existed but there had to be a first universe. There had to have been a beginning of some sorts. 

I cant cut God out of the equation because I believe someone needed to start it all. I dont know what God is exactly, but I do believe that He started it all. Maybe He is a force of intelligence with love and creation in mind? I'm not a believer in the supernatural, but when it comes to creation I do believe there was a beginning with a Beginner! I dont know where God is but maybe He is inside the center of us all? our consciousness? I honestly dont know God but I believe He knows Me.

And how could the universe always exist when science says that there was the big bang? It allegedly started out at a point of singularity and than expanded into the ~200 billion galaxies, ~156 billion light years wide. The universe (according to scientists) is roughly 13.7 billion years old; so there was a beginning roughly 14 billion years ago!

Do you know something about the age of the universe that I dont know?

I do believe most things can be explained but not all things like creation. If there is a creation than there is a Creator! 

And if God (or whatever in your case) can create one universe than whos to say He didnt create an infinite amount of them?

"Do you realize how *retarded *that is?"

~PEACE~


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 8, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Yes, there are man made gods but God made man.
> 
> Science can not answer the question of how and why did everything come to being? You might say the big bang, but who engineered it? Why and how did everything come from nothing? And what or who was before that?
> 
> ...


Look, man.. I don't have the time to go over this with you, please don't take offense, it's just the way it is.. I've done it dozens of times with people, at this point I just don't care anymore.. I leave it up to you to hold yourself responsible to figure this stuff out.. It's just too time consuming. 

I would suggest you utilize the internet, like I said before, ask big questions, if we don't already know the answers, find out how close to the answer we do know and read about that. Read the biographies of the scientists who discover these things, read about the applications their discoveries eventually led to. 

All of this is so much more than the unexplainable magic of some supreme being being in charge.. I wish people like you could just see that.. Existence doesn't have to be as bad as people make it out to be, we don't need to be saved because there is nothing be saved _from_. We're simply a consequence of circumstances that happens to be aware of its own existence. I wish you could see that you hold onto and perpetuate a system of rule centuries old originally designed to keep lower classes of people in line and under monarch rule. That millions of people have been put to death in the name of the very same omnipotent being the Abrahamic religions worship. That if there were such a being, simple logic wouldn't defeat the idea of it. That you can be so much more than a drone who believes in ancient misguided disconnected practices...


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 8, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Look, man.. I don't have the time to go over this with you, please don't take offense, it's just the way it is.. I've done it dozens of times with people, at this point I just don't care anymore.. I leave it up to you to hold yourself responsible to figure this stuff out.. It's just too time consuming.
> 
> I would suggest you utilize the internet, like I said before, ask big questions, if we don't already know the answers, find out how close to the answer we do know and read about that. Read the biographies of the scientists who discover these things, read about the applications their discoveries eventually led to.
> 
> All of this is so much more than the unexplainable magic of some supreme being being in charge.. I wish people like you could just see that.. Existence doesn't have to be as bad as people make it out to be, we don't need to be saved because there is nothing be saved _from_. We're simply a consequence of circumstances that happens to be aware of its own existence. I wish you could see that you hold onto and perpetuate a system of rule centuries old originally designed to keep lower classes of people in line and under monarch rule. That millions of people have been put to death in the name of the very same omnipotent being the Abrahamic religions worship. That if there were such a being, simple logic wouldn't defeat the idea of it. That you can be so much more than a drone who believes in ancient misguided disconnected practices...


I like(d) your answer but I still choose to believe in God. But why? Well I have since I was a kid and I always will believe in God. 

It gives Me purpose and meaning to My life. I dont go to church or even believe in Jesus. I just believe in God; I cant really explain why!

Thanks for your sentiment though! I appreciate you trying to "unleash" Me but I like believing in God. Where you an athiest all your life? What made you have the transition?

I do know religion is a money making scandle though! I frown upon religion and especially most of the leaders of the church!

There will always be athiests and believers! I choose to be an agnostic! 

~PEACE~


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## mindphuk (Jun 8, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Yes, there are man made gods but God made man.
> 
> Science can not answer the question of how and why did everything come to being? You might say the big bang, but who engineered it? Why and how did everything come from nothing? And what or who was before that?
> 
> Basically I know that an intelligent designer created everything and I call Him God.


Impossible. How could you possibly KNOW such a thing? Did God tell you this? This is just another example of being caught in another lie. You are not agnostic.


> I believe He always was and is now and forever will be. You all know that there is a higher power, even if its aliens. Not that aliens are God but aliens are most likely far more higher and powerful. I believe God lives inside each one of us. I also believe we are gods in a VERY FUNNY WAY! Not that we are God but rather His children.
> 
> We just dont know what or who created everything and why. You might think you know but your entitled to your OPINION!


We not only don't know what or who created everything, we have no reason to think that things were created and we have a lot of good reasons to think that everything came about naturally. 

There is nothing you can point to in nature that demonstrates intelligence can come about spontaneously without coming from simpler, non-intelligent forms of life. You seem to think that some intelligent agent can just exist without first having had more primitive ancestors that evolved and that goes against science and rational sense. Your whole belief is a fallacy called begging the question. You assume a priori that an intelligent creator started everything rather than come to that conclusion through reason and evidence. This is [merely one reason] why your beliefs and ramblings can easily be ignored by critical thinking individuals. 



> And how could the universe always exist when science says that there was the big bang? It allegedly started out at a point of singularity and than expanded into the ~200 billion galaxies, ~156 billion light years wide. The universe (according to scientists) is roughly 13.7 billion years old; so there was a beginning roughly 14 billion years ago!


All we know about the big bang is what occurred moments after the universe began expanding. We have no idea what it was like before that. We cannot know if the universe always existed in the small, hot, dense state that preceded the big bang. There is no reason that it couldn't have existed for eternity. How can you justify claiming that an eternally existing intelligence preceded the formation of a universe but you cannot comprehend how something, as simple and such low entropy as the early universe could have always existed?


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## cannabineer (Jun 8, 2013)

skuba said:


> It's what animates the material nature. You know the difference between dead and alive. The definition for "energy" or "force" doesn't fit it, so we have "spirit."


This concept is called "vitalism". For the last two centuries, chemistry has been its most merciless scourge. cn


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 9, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> I believe in a multiverse; Where universes pop in and out of existance like stars do. The multiverse might have almost "always" existed but there had to be a first universe. There had to have been a beginning of some sorts.
> 
> I cant cut God out of the equation because I believe someone needed to start it all. I dont know what God is exactly, but I do believe that He started it all. Maybe He is a force of intelligence with love and creation in mind? I'm not a believer in the supernatural, but when it comes to creation I do believe there was a beginning with a Beginner! I dont know where God is but maybe He is inside the center of us all? our consciousness? I honestly dont know God but I believe He knows Me.
> 
> ...


The universe started. _as we know it_ some 13 billion years ago. We have no idea what existed before that; you are speculating that it was created but have zero basis for that assertion. 

Ever hear of the big crunch? The universe infinitely expands and collapses. Forever. No creation, no creator. 

You are equating what you know about human created things and turning them at nature. Watches need creators, desks and chairs need creators, airplanes need creators. We have seen zero evidence that says matter and energy need a creator. In fact, we have a ton of evidence that says they can neither be created nor destroyed.

More than anything please respond to this, you skipped past it in your response.

You're claiming that everything needs a creator - EXCEPT god. Your argument as to how the universe got here is based on your statement that everything needs a creator, but you just say* 'fuck it'* when it comes to explaining god. You are content with your ignorance concerning god, but NEED some form of explanation when it comes to energy and matter. What the fuck, man? Do you not see your insanely easy to spot biases and fallacies?

Why does the universe need a creator to make sense, yet god doesn't? How can you claim it's impossible for the universe to be eternal, but you claim an eternal being created it? You are completely contradicting yourself. It makes no sense, whatsoever.


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## skuba (Jun 9, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> WTF?!?!? It absolutely is.....
> 
> OUCH Jesus! That last sentence hurt me deep in my soul i.e. the seat of my emotions i.e. my brain (more or less). We can do some simple thought experiments to determine where the soul is and isn't, if you'd like?
> 
> ...


I realize the systems are controlled by the brain, i should have rephrased that sentence as to not sound like such a retard. 

As far as cell growth goes, you're saying that is due to the brain? What about the grass and trees? single celled organisms?

and thank you guys for your input, you all have good arguments and obviously i'm not too educated as far as neuroscience goes. here to learn.

and i'm not communicating my point clearly anyways so fuck it, we're not going to convince each other either way. agree to disagree


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 9, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> Impossible. How could you possibly KNOW such a thing? Did God tell you this? This is just another example of being caught in another lie. You are not agnostic.
> 
> We not only don't know what or who created everything, we have no reason to think that things were created and we have a lot of good reasons to think that everything came about naturally.
> 
> ...


Mindpunk O Mindpunk! 

How do you punk your mind?

I just dont feel like debating with you right now!

Christ loves you!



Beefbisquit said:


> The universe started. _as we know it_ some 13 billion years ago. We have no idea what existed before that; you are speculating that it was created but have zero basis for that assertion.
> 
> Ever hear of the big crunch? The universe infinitely expands and collapses. Forever. No creation, no creator.
> 
> ...


I honestly dont know if there was a beginning to the universe or not, but I can only assume. Maybe it is a big crunch like you said, IDK. I just FIGURE that there had to have been a Creator for all of this creation! Maybe I FIGURE wrong, IDK! Who really knows anyways, right?

*"In fact, we have a ton of evidence that says they can neither be created nor destroyed."*

Good point. Maybe it always existed during other cycles of "the big crunch"? Maybe! IDK.
*
"You're claiming that everything needs a creator - EXCEPT god".*


Good point again. I dont know about the origins of God but there has to be a God. I dont think I ever will fathom how God came into being, but thats if God exists. Like I said, I never meet God so I dont know Him personally but if He exists than He knows Me and thats what matters, right? I'm not going to act like I know everything because I dont know anything. I cant explain God but I do believe He exists. Why you might ask? Because its an innate feeling I have. I cant prove Him. But I can prove Myself and I believe He lives inside of Me.


*"Why does the universe need a creator to make sense, yet god doesn't? How can you claim it's impossible for the universe to be eternal, but you claim an eternal being created it? You are completely contradicting yourself. It makes no sense, whatsoever."*

Its a paradox isnt it? What came first, the chicken or the egg? or was it the cock/rooster? I cant answer that question with certainty. Who really knows? I'm only 27 years old and I honestly wasnt around when the singularity expanded into what it is today.

I can say for certain that I just dont know, I can only speculate My opinions from the knowlege that I have learned from science. And I'm no scientist. When you find out that someone has all the answers to these questions than relay that information to Me. Until than, one quess is as good as the other because it cant be proven YET; and it may never be.

Christ loves you!

~PEACE~


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## tyler.durden (Jun 9, 2013)

Nevaeh420 - 

Its a paradox isnt it? What came first, the chicken or the egg? or was it the cock/rooster? I cant answer that question with certainty. Who really knows? I'm only 27 years old and I honestly wasnt around when the singularity expanded into what it is today.

The egg. Two non-chicken parents made a mutated chicken egg - 

[video=youtube;9k9h0836-CE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k9h0836-CE[/video]

I can say for certain that I just dont know, I can only speculate *My opinions from the knowlege that I have learned from science. *And I'm no scientist. When you find out that someone has all the answers to these questions than relay that information to Me. Until than, one quess is as good as the other because it cant be proven YET; and it may never be.


Christ loves you!

~PEACE~


Why do you pretend to have scientific knowledge? There is NO scientific data that points to evidence of a creator. In fact, everything so far is explained without the need for a creator, and it is absolutely unscientific to posit one. I know you have the belief and feeling that there's a creator (big surprise since you were inundated with that belief from childhood), but please don't insult the scientific method by saying that your belief and opinions on the matter are scientific. They are the opposite...


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## cannawizard (Jun 10, 2013)

I think the egg came first.. but i get lost thinking who laid the egg /facepalm 

(paradox dilemmas)


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jun 10, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Nevaeh420 -
> 
> Its a paradox isnt it? What came first, the chicken or the egg? or was it the cock/rooster? I cant answer that question with certainty. Who really knows? I'm only 27 years old and I honestly wasnt around when the singularity expanded into what it is today.
> 
> ...




He has an egotistical complex,He is afterall the Son of God scientist and telling him other wise only brings his hands to hid ears as he starts chattering jibberish really quick to himself to forget what he has just read.He wants to stay in his special happy land forever.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 10, 2013)

Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> He has an egotistical complex,He is afterall the Son of God scientist and telling him other wise only brings his hands to hid ears as he starts chattering jibberish really quick to himself to forget what he has just read.He wants to stay in his special happy land forever.


Imo, he's done dealing with ignorance from unqualified people, he's been one of the leading biological scientists *in the world* for over 3 decades and his discipline is one of the main topics that gets debated in science because people think biology is subjective. His reaction is completely understandable. 

How would you feel if for 30 years you've been telling people 2+2=4 and they've insisted you're wrong? Not only that but they've called you immoral for teaching it and said you're going to Hell to burn forever? Do you think it would make you feel a little bit annoyed if you spent over a decade in advanced formal education from one of the best universities in the world studying something everyday, day in day out, then someone who has never spent a single day in a college classroom tells you their opinion on the subject is just as valid as yours is?


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## Indagrow (Jun 10, 2013)

I trust in myself only, and some faith in humanity.. I could never be a shave to a god in this life without proof it would pay off, not to torch anyone but I feel like church is for the scared...those who cannot do it on their own. I was raised catholic, and went to a private catholic high school and still feel this way. That's why church is really just elderly aerobics, scared of death and the unknown they flock to a higher power that will make everything okay. Ponder our creation and existence and you will let the now pass you by, I'm living now and making the best of it. Always open minded tho...


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## tyler.durden (Jun 10, 2013)

Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> He has an egotistical complex,He is afterall the Son of God scientist and telling him other wise only brings his hands to hid ears as he starts chattering jibberish really quick to himself to forget what he has just read.He wants to stay in his special happy land forever.





Padawanbater2 said:


> Imo, he's done dealing with ignorance from unqualified people, he's been one of the leading biological scientists *in the world* for over 3 decades and his discipline is one of the main topics that gets debated in science because people think biology is subjective. His reaction is completely understandable.
> 
> How would you feel if for 30 years you've been telling people 2+2=4 and they've insisted you're wrong? Not only that but they've called you immoral for teaching it and said you're going to Hell to burn forever? Do you think it would make you feel a little bit annoyed if you spent over a decade in advanced formal education from one of the best universities in the world studying something everyday, day in day out, then someone who has never spent a single day in a college classroom tells you their opinion on the subject is just as valid as yours is?


LOL! Pad, I believe DM was referring to Neveah in his post, too many pronouns gets confusing. Nice righteous defense of Dawkins, though


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 10, 2013)

Oh, lol, my bad then..

I hear a lot of the same criticisms about Dawkins


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## Skuxx (Jun 10, 2013)

I don't have any beliefs at all because if you have a particular belief, then that closes your mind to any other belief. For example, if you believe jesus was the only son of god or whatever the story is, and that his mom had an immaculate conception.... then that closes your mind to the belief that jesus was just a regular human being... or if you believe that jesus was just a regular human being like us, then that closes your mind to the belief that he really was the only son of god and his mom was impregnated by god.... or if you believe in god then that closes your mind to the belief that there is no god.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jun 10, 2013)

I was certainly reffering to Neveah,,my apologies for not clarifying.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jun 10, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Imo, he's done dealing with ignorance from unqualified people, he's been one of the leading biological scientists *in the world* for over 3 decades and his discipline is one of the main topics that gets debated in science because people think biology is subjective. His reaction is completely understandable.
> 
> How would you feel if for 30 years you've been telling people 2+2=4 and they've insisted you're wrong? Not only that but they've called you immoral for teaching it and said you're going to Hell to burn forever? Do you think it would make you feel a little bit annoyed if you spent over a decade in advanced formal education from one of the best universities in the world studying something everyday, day in day out, then someone who has never spent a single day in a college classroom tells you their opinion on the subject is just as valid as yours is?



I would be dam well annoyed by the line of rationale that allows someone to enable that sort of self ignorance within themselves.


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 10, 2013)

Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> He has an egotistical complex,He is afterall the Son of God scientist and telling him other wise only brings his hands to hid ears as he starts chattering jibberish really quick to himself to forget what he has just read.He wants to stay in his special happy land forever.


Why thank you!

Thats the nicest thing you have said to Me so far!

~PEACE~


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## tyler.durden (Jun 10, 2013)

Skuxx said:


> I don't have any beliefs at all because if you have a particular belief, then that closes your mind to any other belief. For example, if you believe jesus was the only son of god or whatever the story is, and that his mom had an immaculate conception.... then that closes your mind to the belief that jesus was just a regular human being... or if you believe that jesus was just a regular human being like us, then that closes your mind to the belief that he really was the only son of god and his mom was impregnated by god.... or if you believe in god then that closes your mind to the belief that there is no god.


I agree when you believe one thing, you generally close yourself off from their opposing beliefs (except when someone subconsciously holds opposing beliefs and is dealing with cognitive dissonance). But we cannot simply _choose _to believe something: I could not choose to believe that the Abrahamic god exists at this time, as there is no reasoning that makes sense to me for this to be the case. It's the same with the theists here, they cannot choose to stop believing simply because we say they shouldn't, they have not internalized the reasons and arguments against their belief to an extent sufficient enough to let them change their minds. That could be because they do not understand our opposing information, or do not believe it is valid, hide from or ignore it, etc.. But we all either believe something or we don't for any claim that is made. I'd think that we'd all agree that we believe the sun is coming up tomorrow, or that at this moment your car is right where you parked it. Those things may or may not be true, but right now we all either believe that those things are true or they are not...


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## skuba (Jun 10, 2013)

It's not that your arguments aren't valid, but simply that you can't prove something doesn't in my opinion disprove it either.


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## cannabineer (Jun 10, 2013)

skuba said:


> It's not that your arguments aren't valid, but simply that you can't prove something doesn't in my opinion disprove it either.


However between outright proof and disproof there are levels of plausibility. Bertram's teapot is a good example of something that cannot be disproven, but that is neither plausible nor advances the philosophy. Jmo. cn


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## skunkd0c (Jun 10, 2013)

Belief, is a system put into place when there is an absence of fact, its a human trait designed to help cope with our natural inbuilt fears when we are unable to predict the future 

an atheist believes that god does not exist, an atheist also has a belief system, as weather god exists or not can't be proven 
i am neither an atheist nor do i believe in god, or the tooth fairy 

i do not know if god exists or not, i very much doubt the christian god exists, i do not know enough about other religions to comment on them
if the Christian god does exist, I personally am not willing to accept the current contract as it stands "the bible" and i will be negotiating a new contract

why would anyone want to obey another ? unless they gain pleasure from a submissive personality trait

it is rather worrying how many religious folk appear "brainwashed" 
the hysterical smile, those glazed eyes ... jebuszombies .. run ! 

IF I negotiate a new contract with your Christian god, i am sending you all to HELL
i will bribe your god using the currency of virgins , gods like that kind of thing 

peace


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## tyler.durden (Jun 11, 2013)

skuba said:


> It's not that your arguments aren't valid, but simply that you can't prove something doesn't in my opinion disprove it either.


Like Neer said, we can't disprove elves, dragons, smurfs, fairies, or werewolves. Just because things aren't disproven doesn't give them any validity. It is up to the party making the claim to provide proof, it's not up to the audience to disprove...


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 11, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> Belief, is a system put into place when there is an absence of fact, its a human trait designed to help cope with our natural inbuilt fears when we are unable to predict the future
> 
> an atheist believes that god does not exist, an atheist also has a belief system, as weather god exists or not can't be proven
> *i am neither an atheist nor do i believe in god,* or the tooth fairy
> ...


A-theist means without theism. Nothing else. 

*If you are not a theist, you are atheist by default.
*
That's to say, unless you answer the question; "Are you a theist?" with "yes", you are an atheist.


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## NietzscheKeen (Jun 11, 2013)

Why am I always late to the party?


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 11, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> Why am I always late to the party?


Geez man, lay off the Neitzsche and start reading some Kant... lol Maybe his impeccable promptness will rub off on you!  hehehe


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

The more you explain god to us the more I hope you are his son. It takes guts to come out and say what you believe especially in this context. If this is how you define yourself than so be it......go to work and play the part 100%. The world needs you. It is interesting to me that worship has found a place in all cultures of antiquity and God seems almost hard wired to the human race. My belief is that you are connecting to this ancient impulse and interpreting it in ways that are at odds with most, perhaps even yourself. The song is yours alone and a logical alienation may be overdue for you. At God, I enjoy only another enigma...the undefinable and the collectives' reaction. The human condition is not evidence of anything that I can hold sacred, however neither is science. The irrational, nonlinear, binary becomes the story of wisdom over truth and truth over wisdom. Within, I see faith not as an empty prescription but as an inner certainty. I see science as an inner prescription for empty certainty. In simpler terms, the opposing forces of logic and faith combine in my experience. In my artwork, the process is very telling. I have completed the work before I start, the sculpture exists completed masterfully and i marinate in that emotive eventuality. That power and fullfillment will be directed into and reflected by my work and this is a certainty, or my faith. My aptitude developed in a punctuation and "spirituality" at first was an aesthetic to me. The mind would see innovations in technique and process as each new, more complex, form demanded. This, was happening too fast to make sense of. I sought an abstraction that encoded my concept in the aesthetic. Anyway, I took time away and came back 2 months later. In this absence, the tactile and cereberal aspects of my old work had merged and sunk deep within. The work that emerged were inspired....interdimensional, organic, Cretaceous, mythical splashes channelled from far reaches in time-space. Somehow, I was at peace without answers. The manifestations, the quantum logic, surrender, the channels, and faith...I was connected. What I couldnt believe was how many people were in the dark, working backwards, like line minds in black-and white conciousness.


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

skuba said:


> Everyone gets sidetracked by all these religious leaders or wannabe Christ figures, scriptures and the like. If you don't know about your spirit, you just don't know about it. there's no science to prove it, and not everything in the universe can be logically explained or defined. Just because something can't be measured doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and the fact that you haven't perceived it doesn't make it nonexistent either. The spirit is felt, not thought up.


 It is frustrating for me to see proof required for such things as spirit, so much rides on that becoming the only way. It indicates a disconnect from humanity, not because of the spirit, but the quantum science where logic fails and perception is not effective.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 11, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> The more you explain god to us the more I hope you are his son. It takes guts to come out and say what you believe especially in this context. If this is how you define yourself than so be it......go to work and play the part 100%. The world needs you. It is interesting to me that worship has found a place in all cultures of antiquity and God seems almost hard wired to the human race. My belief is that you are connecting to this ancient impulse and interpreting it in ways that are at odds with most, perhaps even yourself. The song is yours alone and a logical alienation may be overdue for you. At God, I enjoy only another enigma...the undefinable and the collectives' reaction. The human condition is not evidence of anything that I can hold sacred, however neither is science. The irrational, nonlinear, binary becomes the story of wisdom over truth and truth over wisdom. Within, I see faith not as an empty prescription but as an inner certainty. I see science as an inner prescription for empty certainty. In simpler terms, the opposing forces of logic and faith combine in my experience. In my artwork, the process is very telling. I have completed the work before I start, the sculpture exists completed masterfully and i marinate in that emotive eventuality. That power and fullfillment will be directed into and reflected by my work and this is a certainty, or my faith. My aptitude developed in a punctuation and "spirituality" at first was an aesthetic to me. The mind would see innovations in technique and process as each new, more complex, form demanded. This, was happening too fast to make sense of. I sought an abstraction that encoded my concept in the aesthetic. Anyway, I took time away and came back 2 months later. In this absence, the tactile and cereberal aspects of my old work had merged and sunk deep within. The work that emerged were inspired....interdimensional, organic, Cretaceous, mythical splashes channelled from far reaches in time-space. Somehow, I was at peace without answers. The manifestations, the quantum logic, surrender, the channels, and faith...I was connected. What I couldnt believe was how many people were in the dark, working backwards, like line minds in black-and white conciousness.





burgertime2010 said:


> It is frustrating for me to see proof required for such things as spirit, so much rides on that becoming the only way. It indicates a disconnect from humanity, not because of the spirit, but the quantum science where logic fails and perception is not effective.


Wow, you speak in metaphors and half-truths very well. Too much Chopra and Tolle for you!


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Things that exist need to have physical properties. What role does the spirit play? Perhaps a better question is; what does the spirit 'do' that we haven't already attributed to something else physical? When do we get our spirits? Do they magically appear into the fetus at conception? Maybe the fetus gets a spirit after the first trimester? At which exact point does the spirit manifest? Do animals have spirits? If not, at what point during evolution did we develop a spirit? Some more questions; Humans are wrong about so many feelings we have; someone is behind us, someone is watching us, gut feelings, etc., but we can prove that these feelings are just that; feelings. They do not have a direct correlation with reality (anymore than a statistical anomaly). How do you know that when you're 'feeling' your soul, you're not actually incorrectly attributing the stimulation to what you _want _to believe? You are correct, just because we can't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, BUT if the soul is a tangible thing, and manifests itself in reality, it is measurable to some extent. We might not know how to yet, but if it interacts with the physical reality in any way, it is measurable. If it doesn't interact with the physical world in any way, i.e. doesn't affect our decisions, or is unable to cause causal reactions in the universe, then for all intents and purposes, it might as well be non-existent. It would certainly share all the properties with something that doesn't exist... non-detectable, doesn't affect reality, etc. I could make the exact same argument for anything imaginary. The universe is actually made of invisible, vibrating, pink unicorns. They're immeasurable and invisible, but if you're perceptive you can feel them. I can't teach you how to feel them, you either can or you can't. It doesn't necessarily mean that invisible, vibrating, pink unicorns *don't *exist, but it certainly gives us no reason to believe they *do* exist. Until you can show positive evidence that spirits or souls do exist, all your doing is showing we can't disprove them; which is a piss poor reason to believe something exists, or we'd all believe in magical, vibrating, pink unicorns.


 The existence of a spirit is not the problem you ouught to be thinking about. These questions indicate an unwillingness to entertain notions that science hasn't conquered. In your arrogance, you just throw a bunch of condescending, simplistic questions/statements out there....what's immeasurable isn't imaginary, Read about Leptons, quarks, neutrinos, quantum physics.....there exists many theories that you will negate. Just to point out that if soul/spirit did exist it would interact with the tangible world because it interacted with you. It is not your duty to qualify grey area, especially in this style. Take a breath.....scientists recently observed a particle exceeding the speed of light by a lot but was not validated because they claimed it was incapable of carrying information. Perhaps certainty is foolish.


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Wow, you speak in metaphors and half-truths very well. Too much Chopra and Tolle for you!


 I speak my personal truth(what the thread is about). You dont speak well at all, perhaps you should engage someone with the intention to converse. You are just a chickenhawk.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 11, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> I speak my personal truth(what the thread is about). You dont speak well at all, perhaps you should engage someone with the intention to converse. You are just a chickenhawk.


I am a chickenhawk for bullshit, and I've zeroed in on my next kill.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 11, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> The existence of a spirit is not the problem you ouught to be thinking about. These questions indicate an unwillingness to entertain notions that science hasn't conquered. In your arrogance, you just throw a bunch of condescending, simplistic questions/statements out there....what's immeasurable isn't imaginary, Read about Leptons, quarks, neutrinos, quantum physics.....there exists many theories that you will negate. Just to point out that if soul/spirit did exist it would interact with the tangible world because it interacted with you. It is not your duty to qualify grey area, especially in this style. Take a breath.....scientists recently observed a particle exceeding the speed of light by a lot but was not validated because they claimed it was incapable of carrying information. Perhaps certainty is foolish.



If it interacts with reality, it is measurable. This says nothing about our ability to construct a device to measure, only that things that exist must have properties. I've done considerable reading (at a layman's level) into physics, as I find it incredibly interesting. 

I don't negate the theories, because they don't claim to fall outside of the realm of science. Science only deals with what is testable, it doesn't invoke mental masturbation.

You are correct, if the soul existed it would indeed have a causal relation to the universe in some way. We have yet to see that interaction, and therefore have no reason to believe that such an entity/collection of unknown things, exists. 

Those particles were measured incorrectly, and CERN has retracted their statements. 

http://idealab.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/03/new-cern-test-finds-particles-didnt-move-faster-than-light-1.php

EDIT: Grey area? What grey area? Rational people don't believe things without justification. When there is reasonable evidence to support the idea that spirits could exist, there can be a serious descussion as to the validity of their existence. For now, it's just 'I have no proof except a funny feeling, but want to believe in spirits anyway', A.K.A. bullshit.


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## NietzscheKeen (Jun 11, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> I speak my personal truth(what the thread is about). You dont speak well at all, perhaps you should engage someone with the intention to converse. You are just a chickenhawk.


Lol, Beef is one of the most well spoken individuals on this site in my opinion. The emperor is naked burgertime.


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

What's the point? I am not arguing on behalf of anything, You assume that I want to engage you....rather I want to see if you treat anonymous people with contempt because you can here without consequence. My half-truths will gladly embarrass you as you zero-in on other tangental shit. Don't condescend and expect to have no one call you out...you had a choice, you chose to be a prick.


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> Lol, Beef is one of the most well spoken individuals on this site in my opinion. The emperor is naked burgertime.[/QUOTE Naked Emperor Burgertime?


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 11, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> What's the point? I am not arguing on behalf of anything, You assume that I want to engage you....rather I want to see if you treat anonymous people with contempt because you can here without consequence. My half-truths will gladly embarrass you as you zero-in on other tangental shit. Don't condescend and expect to have no one call you out...you had a choice, you chose to be a prick.


Feel free to call me out on anything I say, this is a public forum I would expect nothing less.

And when you present wishy washy, pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo, expect to be called out on it. I don't care if you want to engage me or not, I will continue to critique anything you, or anyone for that matter, writes on this forum.


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> If it interacts with reality, it is measurable. This says nothing about our ability to construct a device to measure, only that things that exist must have properties. I've done considerable reading (at a layman's level) into physics, as I find it incredibly interesting. I don't negate the theories, because they don't claim to fall outside of the realm of science. Science only deals with what is testable, it doesn't invoke mental masturbation. You are correct, if the soul existed it would indeed have a causal relation to the universe in some way. We have yet to see that interaction, and therefore have no reason to believe that such an entity/collection of unknown things, exists. Those particles were measured incorrectly, and CERN has retracted their statements. http://idealab.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/03/new-cern-test-finds-particles-didnt-move-faster-than-light-1.php EDIT: Grey area? What grey area? Rational people don't believe things without justification. When there is reasonable evidence to support the idea that spirits could exist, there can be a serious descussion as to the validity of their existence. For now, it's just 'I have no proof except a funny feeling, but want to believe in spirits anyway', A.K.A. bullshit.


 Again, I understand but dont actually care...the problem with someone who went to Wikipedia High is people skills and no creativity. You are boring, Extend yourself, take a risk, play devils advocate, say something mildly amusing that is not a knee-jerk hack at the last comment made.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 11, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> Again, I understand but dont actually care...the problem with someone who went to Wikipedia High is people skills and no creativity. You are boring, Extend yourself, take a risk, play devils advocate, say something mildly amusing that is not a knee-jerk hack at the last comment made.


I am not a sophist. My worldview is aligned with reality, not with what suits me best. If you wish to align your worldview with non-reality, expect to get called out on it when trying to explain real things. 

If by calling me boring you mean factual, I am guilty.


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Feel free to call me out on anything I say, this is a public forum I would expect nothing less. And when you present wishy washy, pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo, expect to be called out on it. I don't care if you want to engage me or not, I will continue to critique anything you, or anyone for that matter, writes on this forum.


 Be specific please. Pseudo science? Half truths? I hope intellectuals call me out next time. It's ok, I know what a birdfeeder feels like now. I love when you threaten me, ahh cyberspace.


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> I am not a sophist. My worldview is aligned with reality, not with what suits me best. If you wish to align your worldview with non-reality, expect to get called out on it when trying to explain real things. If by calling me boring you mean factual, I am guilty.


 You know nothing about me or my worldview turbo so pump the brakes. I never asked about yours. Next time, pick the I love reality for know-it-all assholes thread


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 11, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> Be specific please. Pseudo science? Half truths? I hope intellectuals call me out next time. It's ok, I know what a birdfeeder feels like now. I love when you threaten me, ahh cyberspace.


Threat? If by me responding to what you write constitutes a threat to you, you are a strange one indeed. 

Your entire first post is mish mash of metaphors and vagueness. Virtually nothing you wrote can be taken literally and needs some form of interpretation. You will find, in this section especially, a hard-lined skeptic presence amongst its regulars. If you get upset easily at people picking apart what you say, you might try to save yourself some 'butthurt' and forget about this little experience altogether.

No one is going to blow smoke up your ass to make you feel good.




burgertime2010 said:


> You know nothing about me or my worldview turbo so pump the brakes. I never asked about yours. Next time, pick the I love reality for know-it-all assholes thread


If you weren't explaining something about your beliefs/worldview, what the hell was that first post about? Was it completely made up? Does that post not express how you feel? From over here it seems to say at least a little about your worldview.

EDIT: You also said that my questions in THIS post were condescending. I strongly disagree, and it was not my intention to come across as condescending. If we posit the soul to exist, these would be extremely important questions that have to do with one of the most fundamental breakthroughs of our time. 

Not to mention, they should be fairly simply questions to answer if the soul is real.


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

It is my personal experiential reality....like it or not you don't agree or whatever I am unchanged.....at the core of my post is relevance at least, look you can say anything you want just for christs sake make it incisive. Do you ever post anything non-reactionary.? I am who I am...deal with it. You would not like anything I say anyway I put it. My facts, my life, my art. I am odd...but dont worry its not my soul.


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Threat? If by me responding to what you write constitutes a threat to you, you are a strange one indeed. Your entire first post is mish mash of metaphors and vagueness. Virtually nothing you wrote can be taken literally and needs some form of interpretation. You will find, in this section especially, a hard-lined skeptic presence amongst its regulars. If you get upset easily at people picking apart what you say, you might try to save yourself some 'butthurt' and forget about this little experience altogether. No one is going to blow smoke up your ass to make you feel good. If you weren't explaining something about your beliefs/worldview, what the hell was that first post about? Was it completely made up? Does that post not express how you feel? From over here it seems to say at least a little about your worldview. EDIT: You also said that my questions in THIS post were condescending. I strongly disagree, and it was not my intention to come across as condescending. If we posit the soul to exist, these would be extremely important questions that have to do with one of the most fundamental breakthroughs of our time. Not to mention, they should be fairly simply questions to answer if the soul is real.


 It says a very little bit yes.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 11, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> It is my personal experiential reality....like it or not you don't agree or whatever I am unchanged.....at the core of my post is relevance at least, look you can say anything you want just for christs sake make it incisive. Do you ever post anything non-reactionary.? I am who I am...deal with it. You would not like anything I say anyway I put it. My facts, my life, my art. I am odd...but dont worry its not my soul.





burgertime2010 said:


> It says a very little bit yes.


I'm not trying to convert you, I'm trying to show other people that might consider your world view, that it's unrealistic. You have made your bed (and your ad hominem attacks) and you're free to sleep in it.


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

Damn straight, I dont think the missionary work is gonna pay off for you. I am a bad example....I have art all over the world, I write for magazines, I have representation and talent...people might not see the truth as you do. Afterall I, don't believe in god.....just what I experience. The unrealistic part is telling people who don't need/care to understand. On the flipside, there are enough who know me well and see it for themselves. Did you get what you wanted?


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 11, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> Damn straight, I dont think the missionary work is gonna pay off for you. I am a bad example....I have art all over the world, I write for magazines, I have representation and talent...people might not see the truth as you do. Afterall I, don't believe in god.....just what I experience.


Never wanted to be a preacher, although I was raised Baptist....

For questions like; 'Does the soul exist' or 'Does god exist', it doesn't matter how people 'see' it, because the existence of these things does not hinge upon a belief to give them substance. That is, there is an objective answer for these questions. If they exist, they exist; if they don't, they don't.

What does your art have to do with your belief system? Is this supposed to be some form of argument from authority? Maybe I'm missing something.

EDIT: Sorry, you were editing while I was writing. About your unrealistic comment;

Do you mean people on this forum that don't need/care to know? Most of the people who read or comment in the Philosophy/Spirituality section have at least some kind of interest in what is being discussed.


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Never wanted to be a preacher, although I was raised Baptist.... For questions like; 'Does the soul exist' or 'Does god exist', it doesn't matter how people 'see' it, because the existence of these things does not hinge upon a belief to give them substance. That is, there is an objective answer for these questions. If they exist, they exist; if they don't, they don't. What does your art have to do with your belief system? Is this supposed to be some form of argument from authority? Maybe I'm missing something. EDIT: Sorry, you were editing while I was writing. About your unrealistic comment; Do you mean people on this forum that don't need/care to know? Most of the people who read or comment in the Philosophy/Spirituality section have at least some kind of interest in what is being discussed.


 The truth for both of us is WE dont know, I feel you have misunderstood my post in that the 1st 1/2 is reply and about the son of Jesus. The latter half is personal, I don't speak at all really about the formative process and most who understand me saw me through it, they are the people to talk to. Authority?? No.


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Never wanted to be a preacher, although I was raised Baptist.... For questions like; 'Does the soul exist' or 'Does god exist', it doesn't matter how people 'see' it, because the existence of these things does not hinge upon a belief to give them substance. That is, there is an objective answer for these questions. If they exist, they exist; if they don't, they don't. What does your art have to do with your belief system? Is this supposed to be some form of argument from authority? Maybe I'm missing something. EDIT: Sorry, you were editing while I was writing. About your unrealistic comment; Do you mean people on this forum that don't need/care to know? Most of the people who read or comment in the Philosophy/Spirituality section have at least some kind of interest in what is being discussed.


 As a hard-lined skeptic I don't see the allure for you here. Are you interested in Spirituality at all?


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## retrofuzz (Jun 11, 2013)

I use runes for a bit of guidance and divination


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## retrofuzz (Jun 11, 2013)

I always have a penny in my pocket as a quick yes/no oracle,all about belief ey.


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

retrofuzz said:


> I always have a penny in my pocket as a quick yes/no oracle,all about belief ey.


 I used to open I Ching.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 11, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> As a hard-lined skeptic I don't see the allure for you here. Are you interested in Spirituality at all?


I am a Philosophy buff, I majored in it in University. Philosophy is about living an examined life.

I believe spiritual experience is very real, and can be profound but has no basis in the supernatural. 


You are correct, we don't _know_ for sure if god does, or does not exist - much like the soul. However, the default position on any claim is non-belief until the belief has reasonable evidence to support it. 

If someone came up to you on the street and said, "I can fly, but I refuse to show you," would you believe him? Most people would say no, because belief isn't warranted until some evidence is shown. If you hold your beliefs because of personal revelation, that may be enough evidence to fulfil the burden of proof for you, but not for anyone else. _Evidence _can be shown to other people. 

Now, the problem with personal revelation is that it's completely subjective. Based on the fact that most people have no idea what confirmation biases or the myriad of other psychological 'trickery' is, or even a fundamental idea of how the brain works, most peoples 'revelations' can be attributed to some natural phenomenon that they are ignorant of.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 11, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> As a hard-lined skeptic I don't see the allure for you here. Are you interested in Spirituality at all?


They are interested in guiding people away from any form of spirituality because their basic and materialistic tools cannot probe and dissect the things that relate to spirituality, so they conclude that things like souls probably do not exist and any discussion about forms of spirituality shouldnt be taken seriously at all. BUT I think they know that what ever belief you have, you have your mind made up. Atheists are atheists, agnostics are agnostics, Christians are Christians. They know thats not gunna change no matter what argument is presented so IMO, its just a skeptical circle jerk with one hand on your own junk and the other hand playing with a fellow skeptics balls...


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## tyler.durden (Jun 11, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> They are interested in guiding people away from any form of spirituality because their basic and materialistic tools cannot probe and dissect the things that relate to spirituality, so they conclude that things like souls probably do not exist and any discussion about forms of spirituality shouldnt be taken seriously at all. BUT I think they know that what ever belief you have, you have your mind made up. Atheists are atheists, agnostics are agnostics, Christians are Christians. They know thats not gunna change no matter what argument is presented so IMO, its just a skeptical circle jerk with one hand on your own junk and the other hand playing with a fellow skeptics balls...


The skeptics here seem to be steering folks away from bullshit, i.e. notions that undisciplined, desperate people pull out of their ass and attempt to present as reality. If your version of spirituality falls under that umbrella, so be it. AFAIK, only one person on this forum has radically changed their position (Hep, from theist to atheist) in large part because of these talks, but who knows how many lurkers are influenced, as well? The skeptics aren't the only one's participating in the circle, oftentimes retarded 'spiritual' and 'enlightened' dudes will show up to out do us, as they proceed to see how far one can shove their head up the other one's ass...


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## retrofuzz (Jun 11, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> I used to open I Ching.


Did you give it up?


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## GreenSummit (Jun 11, 2013)

i do not believe in any god or religion ( i prefer to refer to it as population control and fairy tales). i do not believe in ghosts, spirits, or souls. i believe in evolution, life, death, and decomposition. nothing more. i cant believe how many adults around me (who are supposedly intelligent) follow and spread the disgustingness and hipocrisy that is christianity. and jesus was a real guy, not a god, just a really smart con artist or a crazy fuck that really thought he was god. by the way, i grew up in christian church and i chose to go to a private catholic university, so i am not uneducated at all in the subject. you god believers are nuts though.


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

retrofuzz said:


> Did you give it up?


 I dont know what happened to it actually......


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## cannabineer (Jun 11, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> Why am I always late to the party?


Didja at least bring superior party supplies? (Something that ultimately makes us stronger?)  cn


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 11, 2013)

GreenSummit said:


> i do not believe in any god or religion ( i prefer to refer to it as population control and fairy tales). i do not believe in ghosts, spirits, or souls. i believe in evolution, life, death, and decomposition. nothing more. i cant believe how many adults around me (who are supposedly intelligent) follow and spread the disgustingness and hipocrisy that is christianity. and jesus was a real guy, not a god, just a really smart con artist or a crazy fuck that really thought he was god. by the way, i grew up in christian church and i chose to go to a private catholic university, so i am not uneducated at all in the subject. you god believers are nuts though.


Why would you choose to go the a private catholic university? I had no idea such things existed, sounds like a crazy place lol


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## cannabineer (Jun 11, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> It is frustrating for me to see proof required for such things as spirit, so much rides on that becoming the only way. It indicates a disconnect from humanity, not because of the spirit, but the quantum science where logic fails and perception is not effective.


Plainly questions of spirit are beyond science, which is strictly confined to the reproducible material plane.

However i see value in still applying some scientific principles to the study of spirit, such as an emphasis on *test*, on validation. We humans have a serious credulity problem (imo), and it would be very nice to develop some way to separate the wheat from the chaff, the sheep from the goats, and Mary Sue from the Maidenform. cn


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## cannabineer (Jun 11, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> As a hard-lined skeptic I don't see the allure for you here. Are you interested in Spirituality at all?


I am keenly, breathlessly interested to know if there is any aspect of spirituality that transcends/exceeds the irredeemably subjective. So far I have not found it, but i do not pretend that the case is closed. cn


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

cannabineer said:


> I am keenly, breathlessly interested to know if there is any aspect of spirituality that transcends/exceeds the irredeemably subjective. So far I have not found it, but i do not pretend that the case is closed. cn


 I am as well. I practice Qi-gong, related to Tai-chi, and in the 8 person class there is a shared experience, subjectivity is always going to be a factor in practice.


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 11, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> I feel you have misunderstood my post in that the 1st 1/2 is reply and *about the son of Jesus.*


Whos the son of Jesus?

(I didnt know Jesus had a son unless you believe in the Da Vinci Code!)

~PEACE~


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## skuba (Jun 11, 2013)

I think it's funny how bent you are on converting people to your philosophy mr durden, just like the "christians" you bash. 
I understand your argument, it's a good one, but you're not omniscient yourself and don't know everything about the universe either.


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Whos the son of Jesus? (I didnt know Jesus had a son unless you believe in the Da Vinci Code!) ~PEACE~


 Your nephew???


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 11, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> Your nephew???


I actually believe that I am Christ- the Son of God!

I talk all about it in the link below!

https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/600992-i-found-like-dozen-videos.html

I talk all about it in the link above!

But noone believes Me so I stand alone!












~PEACE~


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

What a coincidence...I need a prostitute and a healing. I will trade you frankinsense for a miracle......you need a publicist.


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## cannabineer (Jun 11, 2013)

You have a firm grasp on what i mean by test. cn


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## mindphuk (Jun 11, 2013)

skuba said:


> I think it's funny how bent you are on converting people to your philosophy mr durden, just like the "christians" you bash.
> I understand your argument, it's a good one, but you're not omniscient yourself and don't know everything about the universe either.


What do you think is the best way to learn about everything in the universe? Promoting unsupportable speculation coupled with superstition or a skeptical and critical examination of the data and an honest appraisal based on the application of logic and reason? 
How is applying critical thought and skepticism to the random claims of online posters in any way attempts at converting people? I find it amusing that when people are confronted and unable to give rational reasons for their beliefs, they launch into attack mode and accuse those with reasonable skepticism of proselytizing.


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 11, 2013)

cannabineer said:


> You have a firm grasp on what i mean by test. cn


 test what?


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## tyler.durden (Jun 11, 2013)

skuba said:


> I think it's funny how bent you are on converting people to your philosophy mr durden, just like the "christians" you bash.
> I understand your argument, it's a good one, but you're not omniscient yourself and don't know everything about the universe either.


I'm simply a rational skeptic. In my estimation, this view let's one experience more of the wonder, joy and knowledge of reality than any other viewpoint. I love my transcendent experiences and I'm fortunate enough to have them happen frequently through my music, raising my son, illuminating conversations with my best friends, reading about the latest scientific breakthroughs, etc.. These experiences are much more 'spiritual' than any I've ever had via religion, or anything supernatural. I love science. It is the best tool we have from separating the true wonder of the universe from the bullshit smoke and mirrors that lacks empirical evidence and people simply like to believe. I am nothing special, and we as a species are certainly not omniscient. We're just beginning to understand the mysteries of this universe, and we've come a long way in a short time because of the scientific method. There may be forces, dimensions and wonders yet to discover and that our current technology is insufficient to detect, but we will only get there using science. Trying to get to knowledge about reality through whims, wishes, feelings, or any other subjective means, is a random and roundabout method that is very inefficient. Any knowledge concerning reality obtained by these means is likely by accident. Just because science doesn't yet have all the answers, there's no reason to believe any other method does. That's the point, there are some things that _none_ of us knows. Not even those that pretend to...


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## Zaehet Strife (Jun 12, 2013)

"What is your faith and beliefs? What do you trust? Whats your spirituality?"

Try to be a good person. Be nice, and respectful... but do not allow myself to be taken advantage of, do not allow others to, and stick up for myself and for other human animals when the opportunity presents itself. Do my best not to hurt anyone emotionally or physically, be a good influence on other people. 

To be honest with myself, is my main goal in life, even though i know sometimes i am not honest with other people. At least i don't have to lie to myself, i can tell myself the truth about anything and everything, and i have to live with the consequences of my decisions, be it good or bad... i get to make them, and i have to live with them. We all do things that we deem are either good, or bad, we do them and we decide. It's personal, just as most everything in our lives are. Because in the end, we all have to live with ourselves, and we must live with the choices we make.

I believe in me, in my good nature, i believe that my life is mine to create and that my life is equally based off of the decisions i make. I could do this, go there, do that, go here... every choice will have a different outcome, and if i don't try i know exactly what i will be doing... which is why i try my best to do things differently and go places i have never been before more than just do the same thing every day, that's what gives my life meaning... different experiences, different people, different knowledge. 

To have meaningful relationships with many, many awesome people i have met in my life, and to keep those relationships going, that is what gives my life meaning. My family, my friends, and the time spent with each other... nothing can rival it, nothing can beat it...

I hope that answers your question....


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 12, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> What a coincidence...I need a prostitute and a healing. I will trade you frankinsense for a miracle......you need a publicist.


I'm sorry to let you down buddy, heres why.

I'm not a pimp so I dont have any prostitutes.

I'm not a shaman so I cant heal.

And I'm not a miracle worker so I dont perform miracles.

But I do have a great story and its in that link.

You are correct too, I do need a publicist! But where do I find one?

~PEACE~


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 12, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> I'm sorry to let you down buddy, heres why. I'm not a pimp so I dont have any prostitutes. I'm not a shaman so I cant heal. And I'm not a miracle worker so I dont perform miracles. But I do have a great story and its in that link. You are correct too, I do need a publicist! But where do I find one? ~PEACE~


 Jesus performed miracles, consorted with prostitutes, healed the sick and had an army of publicists. Have you been as Jesus was? selfless, charitable, poor. I am not interested in what links you have but if you are going to beleive this about yourself than act the part. You may have schizophrenia or delusional psychosis in it's onset......I am serious. Whatever......be the light of peoples day or hit the doctor and buzz off. Watch out for Romans.


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 12, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> Jesus performed miracles, consorted with prostitutes, healed the sick and had an army of publicists. Have you been as Jesus was? selfless, charitable, poor. I am not interested in what links you have but if you are going to beleive this about yourself than act the part. You may have schizophrenia or delusional psychosis in it's onset......I am serious. Whatever......be the light of peoples day or hit the doctor and buzz off. Watch out for Romans.


I'm not Jesus nor do I want to be (like) Him, but yes I am selfless, charitable and poor to the best of My abilities but noone is perfect.

I dont have scizophrenia because I dont hear voices, but I must be a little delusional to believe that I AM Christ. But I'm still a wonderful person. 

Jesus ALLEGEDLY performed mircacles and noone can prove that He actually did them unless you believe the Bible.

I'm not going to act any part either, why should I be someone who I am not? If people dont like Me for Me than I dont care.

~PEACE~


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## NietzscheKeen (Jun 13, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Never wanted to be a preacher, although I was raised Baptist....
> 
> For questions like; 'Does the soul exist' or 'Does god exist', it doesn't matter how people 'see' it, because the existence of these things does not hinge upon a belief to give them substance. That is, there is an objective answer for these questions. If they exist, they exist; if they don't, they don't.
> 
> ...


I was raised Baptist and I wanted to be a preacher, so I studied the Bible. That is why I am now an atheist.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 13, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> I was raised Baptist and I wanted to be a preacher, so I studied the Bible. That is why I am now an atheist.


[h=1]&#8220;Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.&#8221; - Isaac Asimov[/h]


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## NietzscheKeen (Jun 13, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> [h=1]&#8220;Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.&#8221; - Isaac Asimov[/h]


True Dat. And even with the amazing powers of rationalization that humans have, some things in the bible and really the whole logic behind it doesn't make sense.


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## Ratchet city (Jun 13, 2013)

Gandhi " I don't reject Christ. I Love Christ. Its just so many of your christians are unlike christ." 

I've lived in 4 states and visited to many churches and the day I find a true christian is the day I decide to follow christianity. I refuse to classify myself with modern day christians. So until the HIGHLY unlikely day I will take me bong rips, continue my permiscuity, and enjoying my gluttony 

Also just to add I've read the bible cover to cover quite a few times so I would love to understand just what the bloody hell is "properly read" mean?


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jun 13, 2013)

The quote BB used, was reffering to reading the bible without a subjectively bias filter and measuring what the book states as truth with that of actual reality through critical thinking and the correct line of rationale, bringing the readers attention to its inconsistency's with reality and ultimately becoming atheist as a result of the lack of evidence surrounding its declarations of absolute truth.


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## cannabineer (Jun 13, 2013)

burgertime2010 said:


> test what?


Test for claims of divinity. You required a miracle on demand. That's a pretty good way to authenticate the claim, if it is reproducibly met. cn


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## burgertime2010 (Jun 14, 2013)

cannabineer said:


> Test for claims of divinity. You required a miracle on demand. That's a pretty good way to authenticate the claim, if it is reproducibly met. cn


 I was just kidding....I got what you were saying. Who doesnt need a miracle and a hooker? I would be livid if I had no talent and my dad created all that is. I couldn't help myself.


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## retrofuzz (Jun 16, 2013)

After the stuff I've heard from the horses mouth I have trouble trusting any religious folk


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