# germination using colchicine solution



## IAm5toned (Oct 2, 2009)

well guys i usually refrain from posting in this section cause i dont want my noobish nature to be to obvious.. 
BUT ive been doing some reading recently about germination techniques using a very weak concentration (.04%) of colchicine in solution with distilled water.

has anybody tried this, and if so what type of results did you get...

im also curious where one can find this stuff for botanical use, and if you need a license to purchase it, as I understand that in high concentrations this stuff is extremely toxic... 

see i'm the type of guy that doesnt have much space for things, and because of that i need something that has some very polyploidy traits if you know what i mean... and because im a) cheap, dont like spending 100's for seeds, and b) the type of person that likes to experiment and c) has lots of bagseed lying around. so i was wondering what i could do with bagseed and colchicine treatment.

any input is appreciated and thanks in advance!


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## cloned (Oct 2, 2009)

IAm5toned said:


> well guys i usually refrain from posting in this section cause i dont want my noobish nature to be to obvious..
> BUT ive been doing some reading recently about germination techniques using a very weak concentration (.04%) of colchicine in solution with distilled water.
> 
> has anybody tried this, and if so what type of results did you get...
> ...


no need for it. i just germed over 30 seeds with the paper towel method. just the water. 100% success rate.


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## IAm5toned (Oct 2, 2009)

im not talking about using it too make the seeds germinate man... but thanks for the input.

this is something entirely different.


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## cloned (Oct 2, 2009)

IAm5toned said:


> im not talking about using it too make the seeds germinate man... but thanks for the input.
> 
> this is something entirely different.


fill me in.


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## IAm5toned (Oct 2, 2009)

cloned said:


> fill me in.





> *Botanical use*
> 
> Since chromosome segregation is driven by microtubules, colchicine is also used for inducing polyploidy in plant cells during cellular division by inhibiting chromosome segregation during meiosis; half the resulting gametes therefore contain no chromosomes, while the other half contain double the usual number of chromosomes (_i.e._, diploid instead of haploid as gametes usually are), and lead to embryos with double the usual number of chromosomes (_i.e._ tetraploid instead of diploid). While this would be fatal in animal cells, in plant cells it is not only usually well tolerated, but in fact frequently results in plants which are larger, hardier, faster growing, and in general more desirable than the normally diploid parents; for this reason, this type of genetic manipulation is frequently used in breeding plants commercially. In addition, when such a tetraploid plant is crossed with a diploid plant, the triploid offspring will be sterile, which may be commercially useful in itself by requiring growers to buy seed from the supplier, but also can often be induced to create a "seedless" fruit if pollinated (usually the triploid will also not produce pollen, therefore a diploid parent is needed to provide the pollen). This is the method used to create seedless watermelons, for instance. On the other hand, colchicine's ability to induce polyploidy can be exploited to render infertile hybrids fertile, as is done when breeding triticale from wheat and rye. Wheat is typically tetraploid and rye diploid, with the triploid hybrid infertile. Treatment with colchicine of triploid triticale gives fertile hexaploid triticale.
> When used to induce polyploidy in plants, colchicine is usually applied to the plant as a cream. It has to be applied to a growth point of the plant, such as an apical tip, shoot or sucker. Seeds can be presoaked in a colchicine solution before planting. As colchicine is so dangerous, it is worth noting that doubling of chromosome numbers can occur spontaneously in nature, and not infrequently. The best place to look is in regenerating tissue. One way to induce it is to chop off the tops of plants and carefully examine the lateral shoots and suckers to see if any look different.[7] If there is no visual difference flow cytometry can be used for analysis.



in plain english it mutates the plant into producing more main branches (colas!) with bigger, more ptent buds... there was a guy back in the 40's that did a bunch of experiments trying to extract thc from plants but what he found out was that colchicine germinated plants were nearly double in potency.

i read another thread on here about someone using colchicine in concentrations of .1% however every serious scientific article ive found on it shows the best results at levels no higher than .04% concentration.


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## msmingle1 (Oct 4, 2009)

wow i have never heard of this before but it sounds awesome. looking forward to seeing how it turns out.


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## Midnight Sun (Oct 28, 2009)

I've done it and the plants do branch like crazy and the final product is potent.


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## IAm5toned (Oct 28, 2009)

where did you find your colchicine?

i cant seem to find a source for the stuff


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## aubud (Oct 29, 2009)

IAm5toned said:


> where did you find your colchicine?
> 
> i cant seem to find a source for the stuff


A quick search turned up that in the US the stuff is most often perscribed in pill form fort gout and requires an RX, soooo go look up some symptoms and put on a show or buy some offline possibly? Seems like its gonna be pretty tough to get your hands on


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## IAm5toned (Oct 29, 2009)

the pill form is not what i need tho, its too difficult to extract the colchicine from the rest of the crap thats in the pill.
i need the pure stuff or pre mixed solution.
i dont need much at all though, its not like i want pounds of the stuff, i want to keep a small supply on hand in case i run across a strain i want to experiment with for breeding.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 28, 2009)

IAm5toned said:


> the pill form is not what i need tho, its too difficult to extract the colchicine from the rest of the crap thats in the pill.
> i need the pure stuff or pre mixed solution.
> i dont need much at all though, its not like i want pounds of the stuff, i want to keep a small supply on hand in case i run across a strain i want to experiment with for breeding.


 
I'm going to be doing the same thing but need to bring in a few harvests first so I can get a bigger place to grow. Since you can't use the parents (parents are poisonous) you have to have a male & female sexing and it's best to give them their own room with their own seperate ventilation to prevent accidental cross polination of your other plants.

What you need to do (I think) is to call your local nursery and ask them if they do any breeding. If they do, then they know a source to get it. To be polite you should ask them first if they can acquire some for you and what the cost would be. If they wont, see if you can't get info on their chemical supplier who will probably sell to you in small qtys. You may have to do some finessing, but try to get a name and a state or city at least if you can.

BTW, you're not in Denver I hope, I wanted to be the first to bring it here. lol

Oh, and I found out that the correct designation for these plants are Gold Plants or Super Plants. This means that if you take Durban Poison seeds and make a Gold Plant, then the bud from their children should be called Durban Poison Gold. 

Yes, this is why you can't find Columbian Gold anymore, because the plants aren't born, they're created. And this is somewhat of a lost art is seems.

And I wouldn't use bagseed if I were you. It's worth it to order seeds so you can start with the best strains (Durban Poison, Opium, Blueberry, Mendocino County Purp, etc...) Just remember to buy enough seeds because most will die and you're gonna need both a male & fem. Also avoid feminized seeds for the same reason.

And one more thing. I found info on it in Billy McCann's Marijuana Home Grower's Journal. He goes over the basics but never gives the Colchicine recipe because he says the parnet plants are poisonous and he doesn't want to be liable if someone smokes it and gets sick. 

But he does point to another book by William Drake called Cultivator's Handbook of Marijuana that has the recipe plus step by step directions. Forget about finding the book at the library, it's as hard to find there as the Anarchists Cookbook. You'll probably have to order a copy from your local book store. Since you're working with a poison to create a poisonous plant (remember, parent plant's seeds make the usable plants) I'd highly recommend getting a copy and reading it a few times first. You may even want to write down your own step by step instructions first just to make sure you understand every little thing.

Be carefull, and good luck. Let me know how it works out, it'll be 6 months at least before I can give her a go.


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## snake69 (Nov 28, 2009)

This might help you. I know my friend tried this method with good results.
Snake
*There can be little doubt that a great number of ardent growers dream that one day they will produce the ultimate, a really outstanding bloom or plant, just a little bit different from the rest - a change of colour - maybe a larger size of bloom or improvement in the quality of the foliage or growing habits. One way to try and do this in the home garden is by chemical mutation which may sound rather fearsome, but could provide a pleasant surprise. 
Colchicine has been used on African Violets to create improved plants for many years and has great possibilities for doing the same for chrysanthemums. Colchicine is a chemical derived from the bulb of the Colchicum, Meadow Saffron, more commonly known as the Autumn Crocus. This is a plant which produces its flowers before the foliage appears, hence the common name, Naked Ladies. However every part of the plant is toxic and needs to be handled with great care. 
In this article I describe how colchicine can be used to produce new cultivars. 
Like radioactive isotopes, colchicine, when applied to actively growing and dividing cells, acts on the chromosome numbers. The best place to find these cells is in the terminal branch buds, at the tips. Different types of plants require different dilutions of Colchicine to be successful, and unfortunately the correct dilutions to use for each plant has never been accurately determined. Even different cultivars within a species will react best with differing solutions. 
The best way I have found to overcome this problem is to use 3 different dilutions for different periods of time on the same plant. In this way the chance of a doubling of the chromosomes is enhanced. Colchicine may be acquired from the chemist. The product I use is called Calgout which is used in the treatment of gout. It comes in tablet form, 0.5mg. The tablets are relatively inexpensive but are generally available only on prescription. I recommend initially using the Colchicine in 3 strengths by mixing a 0.5mg tablet with 50ml, 100ml and 150ml of water. As you become more interested in this area of plant experimentation you can try much weaker and stronger solutions and vary the time of application. The important thing is to keep accurate records. I usually apply the colchicine for 12, 24 and 48 hrs but this also can be infinately varied. Hopefully one of your trials will result in the doubling of chromosomes in the plant cells and the production of a wondrous new chrysanthemum. 
It is possible that plant injury will occur should the solution be too strong or the exposure too long, or a combination of both, for any particular variety. Therefore it will be necessary to record each individual operation. 
Procedure
Wrap cotton wool or a strip of cloth around the bud area and saturate with the necessary solution. It will be found to be easier if side leaves are first pulled off. It is a good idea to make minute slits at the base of the bud thus enabling a quicker penetration of the solution. Remove cloth at the end of the desired duration time. If using on outdoor plants, cover the impregnated cotton wool or cloth with adhesive or plastic tape. After Colchicine treatment the plant will often try to send out side shoots. Keep these pinched out thus forcing top growth. At first growth is slowed down, then it will become distorted and uneven, as affected, and unaffected, cells battle to take over. Later if the procedure has been successful, stems should grow thicker and leaves greener, whilst the flowers should be different. Doubling up of the chromosomes, by this specialised Colchicine treatment, not only creates a new plant but sets up new breeding possibilities. Colchicine can be applied to any part of the plant. If you do not have success with the bud area try the roots. In this case wrap the roots in sphagnum moss or cotton wool, wet it thoroughly in water and wrap in aluminum foil to prevent drying out. Then suspend the plant in the desired concentration of Colchicine. It may be necessary to curtail or extend period of immersion depending on the plant's reaction. After exposure wash thoroughly and repot. Always remember that the treatment is a shock to the plant. Baby it afterwards and keep it warm and out of direct sun.
In conclusion, remember to take care when handling Colchicine.*


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## karmabud (Nov 28, 2009)

heres a link to what i think you want if you cant find it .http://wardsci.com/product.asp?pn=IG0015182&cm_mmc=Mercent-_-Google-_-NULL-_-9610600&mr:trackingCode=B979975B-6581-DE11-8C0A-000423C27502&mr:referralID=NA&bhcd2=1259467083


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 28, 2009)

karmabud said:


> heres a link to what i think you want if you cant find it .http://wardsci.com/product.asp?pn=IG0015182&cm_mmc=Mercent-_-Google-_-NULL-_-9610600&mr:trackingCode=B979975B-6581-DE11-8C0A-000423C27502&mr:referralID=NA&bhcd2=1259467083


 
Thanks for the link, it's a great find. +rep

Have you ever used this mail order company before?


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## karmabud (Nov 29, 2009)

no ive never ordered from them but it looks legit and i found no reports on the net of them scamming anyone . ( if its on the net i can find it ) and if you look online there's coupon codes , so that tells ya its a real site .


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## beardo (Nov 29, 2009)

i heard about it i thought it was gebrelic acid.. i hear it kills most seeds the ones that grow are mostly female and super strong vigirous. i havnt tried it


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 29, 2009)

karmabud said:


> no ive never ordered from them but it looks legit and i found no reports on the net of them scamming anyone . ( if its on the net i can find it ) and if you look online there's coupon codes , so that tells ya its a real site .


 
Cool, I'll definately use them as soon as I'm ready. Thanks again for the tip.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 29, 2009)

beardo said:


> i heard about it i thought it was gebrelic acid.. i hear it kills most seeds the ones that grow are mostly female and super strong vigirous. i havnt tried it


 
No, this is something completely different. In this process you're actually changing the plant to a whole different type of plant called a polyploidy which doubles the chromosones and comes close to doubling the potency (thc content).

Oh and I was doing some reading on sexing, it seems the males die after promoting their pollen but the fems live. So once you get a M & F Super Plant, make youself a fem clone so you have 2 in case 1 goes hermie, and make a shit load of male clones because you'll need another one every time you want to pollinate.


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## IAm5toned (Dec 15, 2009)

thanks for the tips... 
but that link was priceless... plus rep


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## Prankster (Aug 27, 2010)

A long, long time ago way back in the 1960s, this process increased bud size to extremely huge proportions. However, the people who smoked it died. I have been looking for the proper spelling because I wanted to use it to increase the size of the giant bamboo growth. It seems there are a few different spellings, and I just cannot locate an old High Times Magazine that covered this process. I have no idea if the different spellings are different chemicals. I am not speaking from experience, I am just remembering back 50yrs. This process has almost been erased from history. Information covering the death of past smokers could be more propaganda lies; I just don't know. More growers have been busted from buying their supplies from High Times magazine than Cater has little liver pills. 

If using cultrasine-cultrazine for seed germination is not death smoke poison; let me know. Correct Spelling "Colchicine"
http://www.carnivorousplants.org/howto/Propagation/Colchicine.php

Loki 





IAm5toned said:


> well guys i usually refrain from posting in this section cause i dont want my noobish nature to be to obvious..
> BUT ive been doing some reading recently about germination techniques using a very weak concentration (.04%) of colchicine in solution with distilled water.
> 
> has anybody tried this, and if so what type of results did you get...
> ...


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## IAm5toned (Aug 28, 2010)

Loki- thank you for the heads up man...............

merry pranksters, huh?

good times..


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## IAm5toned (Aug 28, 2010)

i have never heard of anyone dying from smoking buds from plants treated with this substance.
but thats not saying much, as ive also never heard of anyone that has successfully used this technique for breeding purposes....
i can see how the plant could be toxic with such high levels of Colchicine present... but what i was wanting was to create Colchicine treated parents, breed them, and then cross the f1'a with an ibl, and see what happens. however, with no proper analyzing equipment to test the end f1 hybrid product for levels of contamination, so I fear that for me, this is quickly becoming a pipe dream....

also colchicine can be found in medicine used for the treatment of gout.
extracting it, isolating, and then administering the roper concentrations though, is an entirely different story...


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## Danielsgb (Mar 25, 2011)

I spoke with a grower with over 30 years experience. He said they did it in the 80's. He soaked the seeds in a solution, but only 10% would germinate. He said you can smoke those since the tiny amount they absorb will produce polyploidism but not effect the buds. If you were to treat the plant later it would be poisonous. He said many of the males were sterile. Sounds very interesting.
Daniels


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## IAm5toned (Mar 25, 2011)

thats kinda what i was wanting to do daniels...
kinda like induce the polyploid trait into dominance, then try to keep that trait apparent in the offspring.
make them ladies thick and bushy... multi- cola plant w/ no fim or topping involved...


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## Danielsgb (Mar 25, 2011)

He did say they were noticeably stronger, but of course it is a mutation so many were fucked up growth patterns. I think you gave me  again for a testing experiment to look into. I'll look into some colchicine solution from my uncle a farmer/rancher. He may know a source & have credibility to get it. I'll just have to do 10 seeds at a time if I try it maybe less.
BTW how the Hell have you been? Did you get a vert. RDWC Heath style going?
Daniels


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## IAm5toned (Mar 25, 2011)

i was set back when i lost my winter run due to nematodes 
so instead i punted and started growing out some moms.
ive got the rdwc designed, just got to build it.
when my moms get to where i can take 18 cuttings every 18 days im going to build it


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## Wolverine97 (Mar 26, 2011)

Come down with the gout if you want to procure colchicine, but be very careful with the stuff. You can also crush the bulbs of the crocus flower to obtain it, but good luck with that. Also, you can't smoke the first generation when grown using this stuff, you have to wait for the clone generation, preferably the second clone generation.


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## Danielsgb (Mar 26, 2011)

I actually have gout, & they prescribed Indomethicin. But that link earlier is still active and it was $60. I will look for a local source or ask my uncle. Still a ways from even the research & planning stage. Plus I will need a few dozen seeds from a cross I do.
Daniels


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## ddimebag (Jun 20, 2011)

I got a hold of some Colcemid...its a substance similar to colchicine, but less toxic. It is commonly used in cytology to prepare karyograms because it arrests exposed cells in metapahse (when the chromosomes are most easily distinguishable). Has anyone else used it for creating polyploid plants? Would it work?


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## red03golf (Jan 3, 2013)

If anyone is interested I have the book "The Connoisseur's Handbook Of Marijuana".

I'll make a torrent file for it and re-post in here again with the hash for the torrent and a link on where to find the torrent file.


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