# Can Tell if Seed is Male or Female?



## Guitar Man (Jan 12, 2015)

An experienced grower friend of mine just called me, telling me about this Video. I've never heard of this before, so I want to know if this is bullshit or not.


----------



## Silky Shagsalot (Jan 12, 2015)

i saw that pic he's referring to years ago. i never tried using that as a guide. i find it pretty unlikely that this is true, but i never tried it, so you never know...


----------



## BluntM8 (Jan 12, 2015)

this guy is full of shit


----------



## ISK (Jan 12, 2015)

I recently ran an experiment based on this chart and used with opposing environments....male looking seeds in a female friendly environment, and female looking seeds in a male friendly environment.

it was not conclusive, but was interesting...have a peek

https://www.rollitup.org/t/can-the-environment-influence-the-gender.846902/


----------



## Guitar Man (Jan 13, 2015)

Thanks for the responses. I really appreciate it! ISK, I'm going to check out your link a little later!


----------



## rory420420 (Jan 13, 2015)

Buy mine and find out 
I marked em...spotted brown are male,spotted brown are female...doesn't matter what you choose,I'm sending both!


----------



## Heygurlll (Jan 13, 2015)

I have a bag of over 100 seeds. 90%+ match the "female" criteria. I seriously fucking doubt that I have ~100/115 seeds that are female. In fact, I know these seeds came from a batch that threw 6 males for every 4 females (old school sativas.)

(My internet is going out so this is the third time im typing this -.-, actually 6th now and counting. )

This is nothing but junk science and speculation.

ISK it was a good test, but if i remember right, the experiment was worthless. It was not a "controlled experiment"and as such, any results would be thrown out.
Sample size was much, much too small. A real experiment would have 25-100 of an individual strain, likely with 5+ strains. A scaled down version would have 5-10m, and 5-10 f seeds in each room and be at least 2 strains, meaning 20-40 seedlings for half accurate results..
IMO a good experiment has no more than 3 variables. And always has a control group (regular grow style, no discrimination in seed shape, just first 10 or so that fall out of the bag.)
Strain takes one variable.
Room environment takes the second.
Seed structure is the third and most heavily tested in this experiment.
Your experiment did not properly test variable 3 as you had all 3 male seeds in female room, and all 3 female seeds in male room. Talk about flawed experimentation. You should have put "Male seeds" in female rooms, along with the same sample size of "female seeds" in female rooms,and of course both male and female seeds in male room)(if experiment is done correctly, it should not matter if grown in the same room, or in separate rooms with the same conditions, being that the point was not environmental control but seed shape. Personally Id do groups in the same room to save power.)

The results from a real experiment like this would be greatly appreciated.To bad it'd probably cost $45k-$60k+ to do right.



Sorry if this sounds a little antagonistic, its probably because I rewrote it seven times, each time when I was more p/o'd that t..........

Eight fucking times. This is too much. WTH! 9 times. Fucking error 522.
Im done. Hopefully this posts and I haven't wasted more fucking time. 10! Fuck!


----------



## Heygurlll (Jan 13, 2015)

Its probably just me. I just hope rollitup doesn't get ddosed like crunchyroll did.


----------



## rory420420 (Jan 13, 2015)

Its happening here and there....I get it occasionally...


----------



## ISK (Jan 13, 2015)

@Heygurlll 

You may think what ever you like but it wasn't worthless....yes I know the numbers were small but I'm not going risk jail growing 100 plants and spend 40k-60K all for the sake of satisfying your criteria for an experiment.

I did what I did and I have never said it was a certifiable controlled experiment....so if you think you can do better then knock yourself out.....but all I see from you trolling


----------



## Heygurlll (Jan 13, 2015)

ISK said:


> @Heygurlll
> 
> You may think what ever you like but it wasn't worthless....yes I know the numbers were small but I'm not going risk jail growing 100 plants and spend 40k-60K all for the sake of satisfying your criteria for an experiment.
> 
> I did what I did and I have never said it was a certifiable controlled experiment....so if you think you can do better then knock yourself out.....but all I see from you trolling


I was being 100% serious trying to give advice on how to actually disprove or prove this junk science (and explaining why a proper study outside of a Med state is likely never to happen..... outrageous cost and risk to grow a whole bunch of male plants) but whatever, call me a troll (i have been more an more inclined lately to be an ass), I really dont give a shit because this junk science would not cut industrial costs at all and does next to nothing to further the knowledge of this plant. Waste of time and money IMO, and I could not see anyone govt or otherwise funding such an outrageous claim as seed shape, ever.

The point is, 2 groups, 3 plants per, was interesting and hinted at stuff, but should be mostly disregarded (which is what you've been doing from what Ive read) as your experiment was severely flawed. I enjoyed it and as I was reading, I wished i could have explained to you in the beginning that putting all 3 "m" seeds in the f room and all 3 "f" seed in the male room was the equivalent of throwing any certainty or accuracy out the door. The test performed would be to re-test for additional evidence ONLY ONCE the initial conclusion is reached (and again, would need at least 5-10 subjects in each room).

Anyways, last time i try to explain how to do an experiment to someone so that their results actually have merit.... Have fun doing more experiments that will be "junked" for 1 single reason or another, when the test could have produced much much more accurate results by doing something as simple as 8 plants (2m,2f per room), and by limiting variables (in this case by making the tests fair/controlled.).


----------



## LEO t CHARKINS (Jan 15, 2015)

has anyone tried the rena


----------



## shishkaboy (Jan 15, 2015)

Heygurlll said:


> I was being 100% serious trying to give advice on how to actually disprove or prove this junk science (and explaining why a proper study outside of a Med state is likely never to happen..... outrageous cost and risk to grow a whole bunch of male plants) but whatever, call me a troll (i have been more an more inclined lately to be an ass), I really dont give a shit because this junk science would not cut industrial costs at all and does next to nothing to further the knowledge of this plant. Waste of time and money IMO, and I could not see anyone govt or otherwise funding such an outrageous claim as seed shape, ever.
> 
> The point is, 2 groups, 3 plants per, was interesting and hinted at stuff, but should be mostly disregarded (which is what you've been doing from what Ive read) as your experiment was severely flawed. I enjoyed it and as I was reading, I wished i could have explained to you in the beginning that putting all 3 "m" seeds in the f room and all 3 "f" seed in the male room was the equivalent of throwing any certainty or accuracy out the door. The test performed would be to re-test for additional evidence ONLY ONCE the initial conclusion is reached (and again, would need at least 5-10 subjects in each room).
> 
> Anyways, last time i try to explain how to do an experiment to someone so that their results actually have merit.... Have fun doing more experiments that will be "junked" for 1 single reason or another, when the test could have produced much much more accurate results by doing something as simple as 8 plants (2m,2f per room), and by limiting variables (in this case by making the tests fair/controlled.).


I am very glad you made the 10 posts and stuck with it. I was considering trying this out and after your have with setting it up, I know I will. I cant really see this working out 100% accurate like in the video, but there may be something we can learn from this about the shapes of seeds. 
What about misshapen feminized seeds?


----------



## dbdweller (Jan 15, 2015)

We have always gone by the nose of the seed. If the nose was rounder then there was an 80% she was a female. It did not matter what the color was or spots or anything but mature seeds with a rounded nose. We would always get from 8 to 10 out of ten right . No Shit
and i am 52 and was trained in Humboldt County California when i was 14 and still growing lol I have had my share of seeds through my hands.
I can not say anything about the video till i try this myself. I did notice more female seeds of ours by his standards then ours. So the only way is to try it. Hey thats what i am fucking here for anyways right. Tell people what worked for me and to see what worked for someone else.
HEALTHY PLANTS ARE HAPPY PATIENTS 

Peace out


----------



## Observe & Report (Jan 15, 2015)

Just go through the thousands of existing grow threads on this site and carefully note the sex of regular seeds popped. Think of it as a "systematic review." I bet you'll find the ratio is close to 50-50

Lots of people say they get 80-96% females but never with links to their grow threads where they're popping lots of seeds with that kind of ratio... I think it is just the natural human tendency to remember the good times and forget the bad. If they actually kept logs and analyzed them it would probably turn out to be 50-50.


----------



## RM3 (Jan 16, 2015)

I average 75/25 and it is documented  last 2 grows from seed 21 seeds planted, 5 males both times. The funny thing is I breed, therefore I want males LOL perhaps the secret to getting more females from seed is desire


----------



## Heygurlll (Jan 16, 2015)

As I have noticed, little quirks like this are usually followed like a superstition. I also have noticed through reading tons of threads and through personal experience (only with regular seeds from amatuer breeders and bagseed from all around northern california) that environment+stress is the most reliable way to control ratios. I find this backed by the fact that cannabis is a hermi prone plant, and male genotyped seedlings DO sometimes show female phenotypes if conditions are favorable. IME the "How to grow more females from reg seeds" advice is rather accurate.

IMO it MAY be possible that a statement like "rounded, well developed, healthy seeds are 75% more likely to express a female pheno, and 60% were found to express female genos" is true. But it must be tested, correctly.


At the moment I have no personal experience with feminized seeds, and thus prefer not to postulate.


Also, I had the cops at my door yesterday/in my house/right outside where i had 14 seedlings, and I do not have my 215 yet. I'm gonna lay low for now, so later guys.


----------



## Heygurlll (Jan 16, 2015)

I also want to add that I think the tendency to chop males has led overtime to an increase in female dominance. I think 4000 or so more years of todays style of sensimilla growing will lead to the plant always starting female, but developing a pheromone that tells it when there is no males in the room, kind of like fish behaviors. Then we will be buying concentrated male pheromone every grow.


----------



## Guitar Man (Jan 16, 2015)

I've been growing for many years, not Cloning any of my plants. I only grow from seed. I've grown bag seed, seeds from a breeder I know in California, and seeds from my own plants that have Hermed on me.

In today's Cannabis World, especially in America, most seeds found in bag weed are Female because no one grows male plants in their garden (Seeds came from a Hermaphrodite, which are all female). It is possible to get a leak of pollen from someone who might be growing next door, not realizing they have a Male in their mix. But most today don't want anything to do with Male plants, so they attempt to grow all Females.

My point is this; with the dominance of female plants being grown, very few people need to worry about getting male seeds, and I have never had a male plant turn up in my garden.

I think some people confuse a Male with a Hermaphrodite, which is not a Male, but a Female that threw out some nanners/balls because of stress or genetics. In fact, the best strain I grow, a Sour Diesel, will throw out some balls if the right conditions persist, but the fucking smoke is some of the best found in our State. And the Buds are EPIC!!

I'm an extremely particular grower, wanting quality over quantity, and Hermaphrodites can be some of the best weed on the Planet! And I say this; so what if I get a few seeds!! Seeds are EXPENSIVE, and if my lady decided to provide some via some of her own pollen, then so be it! It will be the same Strain, and the seeds will be Female!


----------



## Heygurlll (Jan 16, 2015)

Guitar Man said:


> ... because no one grows male plants in their garden (Seeds came from a Hermaphrodite, which are all female). It is possible to get a leak of pollen from someone who might be growing next door, not realizing they have a Male in their mix. But most today don't want anything to do with Male plants, so they attempt to grow all Females.
> 
> My point is this; with the dominance of female plants being grown, very few people need to worry about getting male seeds, and I have never had a male plant turn up in my garden.


No. No. No! No! No!

Fuck! No!



Disregard this person, they are much too prone to overgeneralization and have just made a really stupid statement.

This person has no idea.

Guerilla growing, large scale outdoor, newbies without a clue, "wild" bag seed weed, breeders. All of these are rather common reasons as to non hermi-pollination (reg seeds either male or female). Wind can carry pollen much further than "next door". Try next county man.

Often, people also pull the males late sometimes. can seed an entire garden like that.




I have no clue how you arrived at your conclusion, but its as far wrong as possible. Males are rare, and usually just misidentified hermies?...... I mean really? So we are all just dumb as fuck and everyone still doesn't know how to sex a plant?

Btw from personal experience with 60+ bagseed grown to ~10 nodes, i found a bunch of males. No pistils, JUST balls. Maybe its because the growers up here are real growers who either have a breeder hookup for quality reg seeds or buy 50+ regular female clones at the dispensary, and the weed gets seeded often by the guerilla ops (more reg genetics) in the canyons..


----------



## RM3 (Jan 16, 2015)

Don't forget that Hemp is starting to be grown in several states now and wait till that pollen starts floatin around


----------



## Heygurlll (Jan 16, 2015)

RM3 said:


> Don't forget that Hemp is starting to be grown in several states now and wait till that pollen starts floatin around


Everytime I think of that, my heart drops a little.


----------



## thenotsoesoteric (Jan 16, 2015)

Dumbest thread ever and that guy in the video is tarded as hell.The sex of a plant isn't determined just inside the damn seed. Environment helps determines the sex of a plant, except when man intervenes with CS or other chemicals. That is why if you follow certain tips you get a higher ratio of females or males depending on which you're after.

More females, then for the first two weeks you want 14/10 lighting, high nitrogen in the grow medium and cooler temps and blue spectrum lights.

Mores males, then the opposite, 24 hours of light, higher P and K, warm temps, and red spectrum lighting.

Been doing it for ten+ years and almost always have more females than males, anytime I didn't do that, ratio was basically 50/50.

Besides I find it hard to believe that feminized seeds look any different from regular seeds.

Edit: I meant to say the sex isn't "just", environmental factor play a large part too. Obviously genetics plays a role.


----------



## Heygurlll (Jan 16, 2015)

thenotsoesoteric said:


> Dumbest thread ever and that guy in the video is tarded as hell.The sex of a plant isn't determined inside the damn seed. Environment determines the sex of a plant, except when man intervenes with CS or other chemicals. That is why if you follow certain tips you get a higher ratio of females or males depending on which you're after.
> 
> More females, then for the first two weeks you want 14/10 lighting, high nitrogen in the grow medium and cooler temps and blue spectrum lights.
> 
> ...


How bout you read some other threads man. 
It _is_ determined in the seeds genotype. 
But as everyone prefers female friendly conditions, males have strong tendency to show a female phenotype. Those are often your late in flower hermies that happen with the smallest stress. They were already hermied, then the slightest stress caused them to revert the phenotype to represent the hard-written genotype.
You prove yourself to understand this slightly by saying you can change the expressed gender.
Do you honestly believe its dna grows/finishes writing the gender chromosome after 4 weeks of growing..... Its done by the time the seed is mature and viable.


----------



## thenotsoesoteric (Jan 16, 2015)

You believe what you want to believe there buddy. But I think these guys have your expertise beat!

"However, if genetic circumstances alone influenced the likelihood of having a pure female plant that only has female flowers, the chances of this happening would be minimal, and since cases of hermaphroditism are at the very least quite rare, it would appear that the genetic make-up of the seed cannot be the sole factor involved in determining the sex of marijuana plants. It is for this reason that some cannabis growers place more importance on growing conditions, since it has been seen that under poor conditions there is a predominance of male plants. This theory could well be correct, especially if looked at it from the point of view of nature itself: a plant, just like any other life form, has a single purpose – procreation. The observation that under adverse conditions there is a certain tendency for a higher number of males to be produced may, in my opinion, be due to the fact that under adverse conditions it is unlikely that the offspring (descendants) will be able to reproduce successfully. Since a female can produce a certain number of female flowers, which will give rise to an equal or lower number of seeds, the higher the number of females, the more descendants there will be. However, under extreme conditions, wise Mother Nature steps in and increases the number of male specimens, since although there is more pollen if there are, for example, 100,000 female flowers, there will never be more than 100,000 seeds, and thus the population will regulate the gender of the plants’ descendants, avoiding overpopulation under less than optimal conditions." Sensi seeds.

Here's a link: http://sensiseeds.com/en/blog/gender-what-determines-it/


----------



## Heygurlll (Jan 16, 2015)

thats exactly what i/we've been saying. Thickheaded much.......


Its in the seed, but the environment can hermie them either way, BEFORE preflower. Environment is a large influence. Female phenotypes are nice, but having a surefire way to find a female genotype from seed would be very nice.

I guess this wasn't a reading problem, its fucking comprehension.....


----------



## Guitar Man (Jan 16, 2015)

Heygurlll said:


> No. No. No! No! No!
> 
> Fuck! No!
> 
> ...


FUCK YES!!!!!!!!!!

Stupid statement? Fuck you!!

I do have an idea, a proven and scientific one! If you found Males in your bagseed, then a Male plant was either in the garden, or came from a nearby Male growing in another garden/place/canyon, or whatever the fuck you want to call it, period.

So, now tell me what is unproven in my previous post. Everything stated is true.

Personally, I wouldn't buy weed from someone who doesn't know what the fuck they are doing, or, weed that would be considered, wild. The only MJ I buy (when I rarely buy), is from growers who have large grows that don't allow any Males in their crop. So the only seeds I might possibly get, would be from a Hermaphrodite, which would all be Female.

Sexing a plant with a Male means one thing; you will have Male and Female seeds, so you will have to separate them after you determine the sex. If you are after Feminized seeds, then no Male pollen will be, or has been used.

Even quality seeds can Herm under the right (wrong) conditions.


----------



## Guitar Man (Jan 16, 2015)

thenotsoesoteric said:


> Dumbest thread ever and that guy in the video is tarded as hell.The sex of a plant isn't determined inside the damn seed. Environment determines the sex of a plant, except when man intervenes with CS or other chemicals. That is why if you follow certain tips you get a higher ratio of females or males depending on which you're after.
> 
> More females, then for the first two weeks you want 14/10 lighting, high nitrogen in the grow medium and cooler temps and blue spectrum lights.
> 
> ...


I agree, I don't believe you can determine the sex of a seed by looking at it. I had never heard of this before and that's why I posted the video.

The big difference in pollen though, would be Male pollen or Female pollen. If the pollen comes from a Female/Hermaphrodite, you will have ALL Female seeds.


----------



## Heygurlll (Jan 16, 2015)

Guitar Man said:


> FUCK YES!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Stupid statement? Fuck you!!
> 
> ...


No need to try to explain the basics of breeding.


Never make an overgeneralized statement like


Guitar Man said:


> In today's Cannabis World, especially in America, most seeds found in bag weed are Female because no one grows male plants in their garden (Seeds came from a Hermaphrodite, which are all female). It is possible to get a leak of pollen from someone who might be growing next door, not realizing they have a Male in their mix. But most today don't want anything to do with Male plants, so they attempt to grow all Females.
> 
> My point is this; with the dominance of female plants being grown, very few people need to worry about getting male seeds, and I have never had a male plant turn up in my garden.
> 
> I think some people confuse a Male with a Hermaphrodite, which is not a Male, but a Female that threw out some nanners/balls because of stress or genetics.


So much wrong.
You are overgeneralizing your own experience. You aint the only fish in the pond, buddy. Millions of plants annually, and a single person accounting for even 1% of all plants is ridiculous.




Guitar Man said:


> ..... In fact, the best strain I grow, a Sour Diesel, will throw out some balls if the right conditions persist, but the fucking smoke is some of the best found in our State. And the Buds are EPIC!!
> 
> I'm an extremely particular grower, wanting quality over quantity, and Hermaphrodites can be some of the best weed on the Planet! And I say this; so what if I get a few seeds!! Seeds are EXPENSIVE, and if my lady decided to provide some via some of her own pollen, then so be it! It will be the same Strain, and the seeds will be Female!


Then the rest of the post made me laugh as it mostly sounded like bragging/i'm so special with my one of a kind mentality that every 20 year old has.




Guitar Man said:


> I agree, I don't believe you can determine the sex of a seed by looking at it. I had never heard of this before and that's why I posted the video.
> 
> The big difference in pollen though, would be Male pollen or Female pollen. If the pollen comes from a Female/Hermaphrodite, you will have ALL Female seeds.


Again, if the geno had NOTHING to do with it, WHY would the parents matter. You people keep half-assed agreeing. There would be no feminized seeds if geno had nothing to do with it. Read the posts again. And if you still dont understand, leave the convo.


Fucking logic is lacking people...
Enough conversing with idiocy, you can never convince a stupid person they're wrong, even when the evidence they are spouting is agreeing with the other person.
Shit.


BTW, Never brag about 10+ years of experience. Quickest way for people to realize how much of a know-it-all douche you are.


----------



## Guitar Man (Jan 16, 2015)

Heygurlll said:


> No need to try to explain the basics of breeding.
> 
> 
> Never make an overgeneralized statement like
> ...


Ok, I agree, I over generalized that statement, but I think you know what I mean. Do you know growers who ALLOW Males in their grow, other than Breeders? Of course not! So anyone who acquires MJ from the basic Market (Dispensary, Commercial Grower, Personal Friend), and they find seeds, if the individuals involved in the grow know what they're doing, you shouldn't find ANY Male seeds in the bag.

I've done this HG, and not 1 Male grew out of bag seed I was given. And this is over the course of several years, using the same seeds, again and again. Now, because those seeds did come from a Hermaphrodite, I did get nanners/balls that seeded the Lady(s). I've then taken those seeds, and every single plant has been a Female.

Here's a nice little Herm...oh, and she gave me some more SEEDS!!! NICE!!!

BTW, never said anything about 10+years of experience. Not sure where you pulled that rabbit out of the hat. And I'm not a 20 year old stupid fuck, so stop your idiotic rant.

Note: I do pull off nanners/balls if I see them, with tweezers cleaned with alcohol. Then I spray any pollen (if some was released) with water, which neutralizes it. So I get very few seeds, sometimes none at all.


----------



## Heygurlll (Jan 16, 2015)

Guitar Man said:


> Ok, I agree, I over generalized that statement, but I think you know what I mean. Do you know growers who ALLOW Males in their grow, other than Breeders? Of course not! So anyone who acquires MJ from the basic Market (Dispensary, Commercial Grower, Personal Friend), and they find seeds, if the individuals involved in the grow know what they're doing, you shouldn't find ANY Male seeds in the bag.
> 
> I've done this HG, and not 1 Male grew out of bag seed I was given. And this is over the course of several years, using the same seeds, again and again. Now, because those seeds did come from a Hermaphrodite, I did get nanners/balls that seeded the Lady(s). I've then taken those seeds, and every single plant has been a Female.
> 
> Here's a nice little Herm...oh, and she gave me some more SEEDS!!! NICE!!!


In short, yes I know plenty of people. AND POLLEN TRAVELS FOR 100s OF MILES.
A large plant is a filter just looking for male pollen.

This year, my friend accidentally cut the males 1-2 weeks after they showed as he was busy. His neighbor sucks at gowing after 5+ years and apparently will let males go more than a month. Whatever the reason he got 700+ seeds

I have in my closet, over 130 seeds and counting, regular, mature, and too fucking' common.
Having that many seeds in a harvest usually means late cut males, male nearby, high stress hermie, etc.

But when its 1-5 seeds per 5lb plant in a windy ass place, chances are even higher the father is from an outdoor non feminized crop. At least in CA. If it was from a hermie from that garden, there would be many more seeds. Its just by chance that pollen was floating by and got filteed out of the air by the plant.

People look at pictures of 12 ft tall bush plants, and the 10lb wonders. I go out to my families house and get to touch these monster plants. Holes in the ground with a 7+ ft diameter. Trunks 10-12" in diameter.
I also have known guerrilla growers. They do not care about having the best quality sensi, just profit and anonymity.
Sorry I tried saying you have no idea without explaining.
Ive been to 15-20 gardens, and tbh, I haven't seen someone who bought fem seeds from a seed bank in person. I know of one person but have not met them yet. This is likely because most people up here are growing outdoors with 10 or so 7 ft plants, and paying more for femmed cuts the profit big time. Seed Banks are kind of bs. Seeds should NOT be expensive. It just takes a grain of pollen and a pistil. 10000-30000 seeds should be sold for what when it only took $100 seed to seeds.

You are the exception, not the rule man.

Anyways, I prefer to not have to stress about hermies. I throw out homegrown hermie seeds because they seem to have at least 50% chance of hermie, and every non stabilized generation throws more nanners and is more likely to do so. Breeders stabilize seeds by breeding multiple generations with the same CS'ed "male." Thats how they get less than 15% chance of hermie in a clearly hermie prone seed. Using non stabilized fems is stuff to be saved for amatuer hour.


----------



## Guitar Man (Jan 16, 2015)

Here is another plant that was grown from a seed that I obtained from my previous grow, on a plant that Hermed on me, the original seed coming from bag weed. KICK ASS SMOKE, and excellent yield!

And, this plant did not throw out 1 nanner or ball!


----------



## shishkaboy (Jan 16, 2015)

Guitar Man said:


> Here is another plant that was grown from a seed that I obtained from my previous grow, on a plant that Hermed on me, the original seed coming from bag weed. KICK ASS SMOKE, and excellent yield!


Thats what I would call a selfie.


----------



## Guitar Man (Jan 16, 2015)

shishkaboy said:


> Thats what I would call a selfie.


----------



## Heygurlll (Jan 16, 2015)

Guitar Man said:


> BTW, never said anything about 10+years of experience. Not sure where you pulled that rabbit out of the hat. And I'm not a 20 year old stupid fuck, so stop your idiotic rant.


that was at the other guy.


thenotsoesoteric said:


> Been doing it for ten+ years and almost always have more females than males, anytime I didn't do that, ratio was basically 50/50.


----------



## Guitar Man (Jan 16, 2015)

Heygurlll said:


> that was at the other guy.


----------



## dbdweller (Jan 16, 2015)

I say if you count one 100 % of what you read as true and get mad because it did not work... you are going to have a problem. You take what you need and try it. That's what this is is it not. You offer something that has worked for you and pass it on for someone else to try or take what has been said and try it.
I will never post my crops.. to fucking paranoid with big brother. Since i have been growing way before any state became legal 1982 it is just in me. trust no one. So posting something that big brother looks at just does not add up. 
We feminize seeds now and yes when one of our girls puts out a seed that we did not make its time to burn one 

So if something sounds right try it and post if it worked or not. If you have never done something before.... then no matter how you look at it your trying something new lol 
Then again i have been smoking 38% thc for to long lol

Peace out


----------



## thenotsoesoteric (Jan 16, 2015)

Heygurlll said:


> No need to try to explain the basics of breeding.
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, Never brag about 10+ years of experience. Quickest way for people to realize how much of a know-it-all douche you are.


And why the hell would I care what people like you think? How is having ten years of repeated behavior bragging? But I'm the douche. Say hello to your mother for me.

And yes, I incorrectly posted my thoughts the first time around, but that happens. Genetics plays a role in gender but it is not the finalized till environmental factor are assessed by the seedling and by looking at seeds you will find nothing out.


----------



## Heygurlll (Jan 16, 2015)

thenotsoesoteric said:


> And yes, I incorrectly posted my thoughts the first time around, but that happens. Genetics plays a role in gender but it is not the finalized till environmental factor are assessed by the seedling and by looking at seeds you will find nothing out.


Which is what all these posts in this "dumbest thread ever" had arrived at. Again, it would be nice if it _were_ as easy as examining the seed to find a female genotype.
Yeah it does happen, but way to go, man.

For anyone who doesnt know the basic terms...
http://www.brooklyn.cuny.edu/bc/ahp/BioInfo/GP/Definition.html
Basically, phenotype is what you see visually, and includes the expressed gender.
Genotype is whats hardcoded. A hermi will still have either male or female genotype.


----------



## Guitar Man (Jan 17, 2015)

dbdweller said:


> I say if you count one 100 % of what you read as true and get mad because it did not work... you are going to have a problem. You take what you need and try it. That's what this is is it not. You offer something that has worked for you and pass it on for someone else to try or take what has been said and try it.
> I will never post my crops.. to fucking paranoid with big brother. Since i have been growing way before any state became legal 1982 it is just in me. trust no one. So posting something that big brother looks at just does not add up.
> We feminize seeds now and yes when one of our girls puts out a seed that we did not make its time to burn one
> 
> ...


So, what picture is that in your Avatar? I'm too old to be afraid of Big Brother. I also live in a State where Cannabis is legal, both medically and for recreational purposes. I was given my Medical Card years ago because of my health conditions, so Big Brother already knows about me.

The people you need to worry about are your neighbors. I have to keep my plants smaller, otherwise they grow higher than the fence and become a target for some kid who is looking for a quick heist. But I also have security protecting my premises, so anyone coming into my yard is in for a surprise.

And if someone tries to break into my house, they won't like what they find. I know just about every cop in this town, and they will be here in a New York minute if a foot or body enters my home.

I'm not on the Radar because I'm legal. I don't sell my MJ, I give it away to friends or family who are in need of Medicine. My neighbor was just diagnosed with cancer and I'm ready to help if they need some good, quality, medicine, for free. 

Maybe that's why my growing and ideas about Cannabis are different; I'm not in it for the money. I grow sheer quality, with nothing but excellent smoke and potency, and I love sharing my hard work with those who are in need. I have children who are adults, and a couple of them use MJ for medicinal purposes. I told them, "You will never have to buy any MJ as long as I'm alive."

I grow because it's fun and good for the mind and body because of tending to an indoor grow during the winter months, where the light relieves depression, and the music I play while gardening also is a great way to start the day. I also grow because I like knowing exactly where my medicine comes from, with no artificial sprays, poor growing conditions, or some other problem that caused a grower to save their crop with something that would make the smoke or edible unhealthy.

I'm also very particular about curing. It takes me about 6 months to complete a total cure. You can smoke my product with great affect 2 weeks after chop chop, but my buds stay moist and beautiful for over a year, which is when the new supply is harvested. My son, who will get MJ from the Dispensaries, told me that my weed is unbelievable compared to the shit they sell there.

I was going through my small seed bank recently, counting how many I had. Right now, I have enough seeds to last me the rest of my life. This is why I like Hermaphrodites, where I can control my seed count. If I get low, I'll leave a few nanners/balls on my Lady, and she'll gladly oblige!


----------



## Guitar Man (Jan 17, 2015)

RM3 said:


> Don't forget that Hemp is starting to be grown in several states now and wait till that pollen starts floatin around


I'm not worried about this problem where I live. It gets colder than fuck here in the winter, so indoor growing is the answer if they begin to use Hemp in our agriculture. If they decide to grow Hemp, the harvest window is about the end of September to the first of October. My plants won't be flowering until the month of November, when snow is on the ground outside.


----------



## RM3 (Jan 17, 2015)

Guitar Man said:


> I'm not worried about this problem where I live. It gets colder than fuck here in the winter, so indoor growing is the answer if they begin to use Hemp in our agriculture. If they decide to grow Hemp, the harvest window is about the end of September to the first of October. My plants won't be flowering until the month of November, when snow is on the ground outside.


I grow year round, indoors. Luckily I'm not close to any fields


----------



## Guitar Man (Jan 17, 2015)

RM3 said:


> I grow year round, indoors. Luckily I'm not close to any fields


I live where there is heavy agriculture, and I'm surrounded by potential Hemp fields. But the weather here will be a challenge because we are so far north. I see a lot of potential Hemp grows further south of here, and those MJ growers will be up in arms if this happens! There are also large, commercial outdoor grows close by here, and they will have to monitor this problem or they will have a generous seed supply!! lol


----------



## RM3 (Jan 17, 2015)

Guitar Man said:


> I live where there is heavy agriculture, and I'm surrounded by potential Hemp fields. But the weather here will be a challenge because we are so far north. I see a lot of potential Hemp grows further south of here, and those MJ growers will be up in arms if this happens! There are also large, commercial outdoor grows close by here, and they will have to monitor this problem or they will have a generous seed supply!! lol


It will be something to watch for sure, I see green house poppin up everywhere LOL


----------



## dbdweller (Jan 17, 2015)

Back in California before it was legal there was this unit call CAMP. helicopters and all. indoor growing was next to nothing and the top THC ran about 7-15%. Garberville/Eureka area. Your whole way of thinking was to protect and hide them. So yes it's just there. This has been my field of work my whole life and i do travel and stay in states were its not legal yet so that helps not posting.. I have a criminal record with drugs so i can never legally be in the field. Thats why i do not post pics.. the avatar... Thats not opening up another program from roll up to post that opens up ur ISP.. but enough of that shit... you will get me sounding fucking crazy and i am only stoned lol

Yes genetics play just about everything in the sex... it's the trying to find out... is what makes it fun i always thought. I like feminizing seeds from great girls i am either trying to develop a new strain or just mixing and matching ones i really like. So that is what we have always gone by since i was young. I never knock anyone even if i have tried it and it did not work. There are so many factors to that can play to the outcome.
I did start one from the vid to see. My kids are going in anyways why not see. I am a very big fan of seeds because of the High stress i produce in them. Some might jump my nuts here but i have always liked seeds better then clones. When they are healthy you can break them and not even have a good seal when taped back up and they grow like wild fire.

Once again it's your job to find out what works best. I would hate to do it one way and like it and never try anything else. 

Shit try plasma lights they will fucking blow your mind, better then anything you have ever seen.

Good luck and Peace out. lol


----------



## Guitar Man (Jan 18, 2015)

dbdweller said:


> Back in California before it was legal there was this unit call CAMP. helicopters and all. indoor growing was next to nothing and the top THC ran about 7-15%. Garberville/Eureka area. Your whole way of thinking was to protect and hide them. So yes it's just there. This has been my field of work my whole life and i do travel and stay in states were its not legal yet so that helps not posting.. I have a criminal record with drugs so i can never legally be in the field. Thats why i do not post pics.. the avatar... Thats not opening up another program from roll up to post that opens up ur ISP.. but enough of that shit... you will get me sounding fucking crazy and i am only stoned lol
> 
> Yes genetics play just about everything in the sex... it's the trying to find out... is what makes it fun i always thought. I like feminizing seeds from great girls i am either trying to develop a new strain or just mixing and matching ones i really like. So that is what we have always gone by since i was young. I never knock anyone even if i have tried it and it did not work. There are so many factors to that can play to the outcome.
> I did start one from the vid to see. My kids are going in anyways why not see. I am a very big fan of seeds because of the High stress i produce in them. Some might jump my nuts here but i have always liked seeds better then clones. When they are healthy you can break them and not even have a good seal when taped back up and they grow like wild fire.
> ...


I grew up in the Bay Area during the 60-70's before Sinsemilla was popular. Tons of bag weed that was loaded with seeds and stems. Great for getting headache! lol

Do you remember the Paraquat days? Golden buds that looked great, but the gold was from that pesticide. We smoked it anyway!! haha!

I only grow from seed for a few reasons, the main one being apical dominance. I don't want my nodes to to grow uneven because of the topping technique I use. Uncle Ben's technique to gain 4 main bud towers is my favorite, and that can't be done with clones.


----------



## dbdweller (Jan 18, 2015)

Yes i remember those days. Thought it was doing a killer job expanding my lungs lol 

You know about the numbers game when topping ?... if you top on odd numbers ( 1-3-5- and so) the nodes stay even. On even numbers they stagger. I do a lot of mainlining and super cropping.
Check out this link
http://www.growweedeasy.com/mainlining-nugbuckets I normally do 8 or12 or 16 colas


----------



## Flash63 (Jan 19, 2015)

Male /female ratio is genetically predetermined...enviroment does not change sex(hot/cold)....period.


----------



## shishkaboy (Jan 19, 2015)

Flash63 said:


> Male /female ratio is genetically predetermined...enviroment does not change sex(hot/cold)....period.


If this is true, what ways are there to differentiate between the sexes? Besides flowering it out. Basically, wouldnt that mean this video may be accurate?


----------



## Flash63 (Jan 19, 2015)

shishkaboy said:


> If this is true, what ways are there to differentiate between the sexes? Besides flowering it out. Basically, wouldnt that mean this video may be accurate?


No.....


----------



## Flash63 (Jan 19, 2015)

This subject has been discussed at length at another forum.....


----------



## Guitar Man (Jan 19, 2015)

Flash63 said:


> Male /female ratio is genetically predetermined...enviroment does not change sex(hot/cold)....period.


Absolutely, correct! Sex is in the genetic, not a temperature. Adverse conditions, such as temperature can cause a female to Hermaphrodite, but she is still a Lady.


----------



## Guitar Man (Jan 19, 2015)

shishkaboy said:


> If this is true, what ways are there to differentiate between the sexes? Besides flowering it out. Basically, wouldnt that mean this video may be accurate?


There is a way to determine the Gender before you plant; use Feminized seeds.


----------



## shishkaboy (Jan 19, 2015)

Guitar Man said:


> There is a way to determine the Gender before you plant; use Feminized seeds.


But what about the males, I cant get males with feminized.


----------



## Flash63 (Jan 19, 2015)

shishkaboy said:


> But what about the males, I cant get males with feminized.


Buy regular seeds...


----------



## shishkaboy (Jan 19, 2015)

Flash63 said:


> Buy regular seeds...


Right, but about differentiating between the sexes without flowering them out.


----------



## Flash63 (Jan 19, 2015)

shishkaboy said:


> Right, but about differentiating between the sexes without flowering them out.


Generally speaking plants will show sex if vegged long enough or become root bound (in veg)..thats has been my experience with most strains...


----------



## shishkaboy (Jan 19, 2015)

Flash63 said:


> Generally speaking plants will show sex if vegged long enough or become root bound (in veg)..thats has been my experience with most strains...


So taking a cut and flowering it out would be faster, most likely?


----------



## Flash63 (Jan 19, 2015)

I veg my seedlings for 30 days....take clones,then off to the flower room and usually within a week they will show sex...simple just keep your clones marked


----------



## Guitar Man (Jan 19, 2015)

shishkaboy said:


> But what about the males, I cant get males with feminized.


My friend who grows commercially does not use Feminized seeds because he is afraid of picking up a strain that will Herm on him. So he does it the old fashioned way, growing male and female seeds, then cloning his Female(s). I grow on a small scale, so I don't care if I deal with a Hermaphrodite. I use a topping technique that doesn't work with clones, so I need to pop a seed, which I like doing anyway.


----------



## Guitar Man (Jan 19, 2015)

I've also heard that you can tell if a plant is a male before it flowers. I've grown nothing but females, so I'm not sure if this is true or not.


----------



## Flash63 (Jan 19, 2015)

This is my system,just make sure everything is labled correctly....poppin beans is half the fun of growing...good luck


----------



## Guitar Man (Jan 19, 2015)

Flash63 said:


> This is my system,just make sure everything is labled correctly....poppin beans is half the fun of growing...good luck


Funny, I do the same thing with Labeling. After a while, the name of my grow can turn out like this: G II OD H. Better known as, G Bud number 2, Outdoor Grow, Herm. This Strain/Seed came from some dank bag weed my daughter had. Since she had mixed the seeds up, we weren't sure about the Strain, so I was left to label them with my own madness! lol


----------



## dbdweller (Jan 19, 2015)

You know whats so great about weed to me besides it's the best looking and smelling plant i know, that there are so many ways to grow depending on your location (high altitude, less co2) to the tropics and that everyone tries.  Even though we all think we do the best we know that there is always something we can do better. Just like plasma lights now, nutrients,soil,hydro and the list goes on.
A hermi seed to me is not the same as a feminized seed or reg in the same strain. They all have a little different dna from the other just like what they do to auto flowers.
I am trying his video (started 3 days ago) and i have always gone by the rounded front nose of the seed i have had great results but who knows. Then i know no matter what anyone else says wether it works or not. Crap i have grow some indica of the same strain up above 7000ft and down at 0 and have even gotten different color from them. The same co2/humidity/temps i mean everything and it blew my mind. The high altitude was much stronger because of the plants normal reaction to pressure and defense but the color and way it grew was awesome.
So i am just saying i like to try what i think might work better. i am 52 and have been doing it a long time and i just love what i do. Why not thats the fun part of it to me LOL

Peace out.


----------



## shishkaboy (Jan 19, 2015)

Guitar Man said:


> Funny, I do the same thing with Labeling. After a while, the name of my grow can turn out like this: G II OD H. Better known as, G Bud number 2, Outdoor Grow, Herm. This Strain/Seed came from some dank bag weed my daughter had. Since she had mixed the seeds up, we weren't sure about the Strain, so I was left to label them with my own madness! lol


I just name each plant individually. So I get crazy pheno names too.


----------



## calicocalyx (Jan 22, 2015)

I have been growing from regular seeds through last year (between 3rd and 4th flower cycle) and off and on before that. I have always assumed 50/50 for male and females and usually it averaged out with slightly more females (maybe perception, maybe not large enough sample?). This last round I got 8 out of 10 females with 2 varieties and 7 out of ten with another. I did everything that I have read to get females except for the most part it was 24 hours of light instead of the recommended amount (I cut back the light to 16hrs for a week). Has anyone here tried to get female seeds with regards to adjusting temperature, light, or other environmental factors and not seen an increase in female or at least female phenotype plants?


----------



## shishkaboy (Jan 22, 2015)

calicocalyx said:


> I have been growing from regular seeds through last year (between 3rd and 4th flower cycle) and off and on before that. I have always assumed 50/50 for male and females and usually it averaged out with slightly more females (maybe perception, maybe not large enough sample?). This last round I got 8 out of 10 females with 2 varieties and 7 out of ten with another. I did everything that I have read to get females except for the most part it was 24 hours of light instead of the recommended amount (I cut back the light to 16hrs for a week). Has anyone here tried to get female seeds with regards to adjusting temperature, light, or other environmental factors and not seen an increase in female or at least female phenotype plants?


I think sex is a genotypical trait.


----------



## Heygurlll (Jan 22, 2015)

calicocalyx said:


> I have been growing from regular seeds through last year (between 3rd and 4th flower cycle) and off and on before that. I have always assumed 50/50 for male and females and usually it averaged out with slightly more females (maybe perception, maybe not large enough sample?). This last round I got 8 out of 10 females with 2 varieties and 7 out of ten with another. I did everything that I have read to get females except for the most part it was 24 hours of light instead of the recommended amount (I cut back the light to 16hrs for a week). Has anyone here tried to get female seeds with regards to adjusting temperature, light, or other environmental factors and not seen an increase in female or at least female phenotype plants?


I started a batch a of reg seeds a few weeks ago (11 in proper conditions, plus 3 extra seedlings I really didn't have room for.) on 15/9.
2 weeks in I switched to 14/10. 2 weeks after that It got changed back to 15/9. I worked it up to 18/6 by end of week 5.
Some have started pre flowering. Out of the 11 so far, 5 have shown, withall 5 being female. With 7 more, I feel safe assuming I'll get 3-4 more females, but honestly would not be surprised if I got 90-100% only half-assing conditions. I recommend trying this kind of schedule (15/9 to start, 14/10 weeks 3+4, then either 12/12 or work hours back up) to get more females. I've heard similar results are achieved with 12/12 from seed, but haven't tried myself. All I know is I have too many females for my veg light. I only wanted ~6 to choose 2-4 from..... Damn luck, show me some male plant so I can lower my plant count already, sheesh.


shishkaboy said:


> I think sex is a genotypical trait.


Its both man. Most definitely written in the seed, but very obvious that gender can be "controlled by the environment",meaning its a phenotypical expression.
A *phenotype *results from the *expression of an organism's genes as well as the influence of environmental factors* and the interactions between the two.-wikipedia
An organism's *phenotype* is all of its observable characteristics—which are influenced *both by its genotype and by the environment.*- Evolution 101, UC Berkeley.


----------



## shishkaboy (Jan 22, 2015)

Heygurlll said:


> I started a batch a of reg seeds a few weeks ago (11 in proper conditions, plus 3 extra seedlings I really didn't have room for.) on 15/9.
> 2 weeks in I switched to 14/10. 2 weeks after that It got changed back to 15/9. I worked it up to 18/6 by end of week 5.
> Some have started pre flowering. Out of the 11 so far, 5 have shown, withall 5 being female. With 7 more, I feel safe assuming I'll get 3-4 more females, but honestly would not be surprised if I got 90-100% only half-assing conditions. I recommend trying this kind of schedule (15/9 to start, 14/10 weeks 3+4, then either 12/12 or work hours back up) to get more females. I've heard similar results are achieved with 12/12 from seed, but haven't tried myself. All I know is I have too many females for my veg light. I only wanted ~6 to choose 2-4 from..... Damn luck, show me some male plant so I can lower my plant count already, sheesh.
> 
> ...


But how many of those females were born female already (before the environmental conditions). You must set a standard, when you say "more females", more than what? Maybe it varies by strain, or time of the year, or whatever. No matter what you need a control group. That did not go through the funny light cycle to set a reference point for "more" and "less"


----------



## old shol4evr (Jan 22, 2015)

Guitar Man said:


> An experienced grower friend of mine just called me, telling me about this Video. I've never heard of this before, so I want to know if this is bullshit or not.


i'm testing this therory myself ,i seen the same video ,plants are only week 1 of veg ,i don't consider veg until they get first set of 5 finger leaves, but i'm curious myself.


----------



## Heygurlll (Jan 22, 2015)

shishkaboy said:


> But how many of those females were born female already (before the environmental conditions). You must set a standard, when you say "more females", more than what? Maybe it varies by strain, or time of the year, or whatever. No matter what you need a control group. That did not go through the funny light cycle to set a reference point for "more" and "less"


I have no clue how many more females phenos I got. Obviously, you cant change genotype without turning it into a gmo. So I got 0 extra genetic females. The point was, I did the known tricks (light, humidity, temp, nutes were all "female friendly") to get 80-100% female, and what do you know, I have more females than i planned for. I am recommending the light cycle because humidity, temp, and nutes all fluctuated outside the range plenty of times, and while the light may not be the SOLE reason, it HAS been proven to be a determining factor. In my mind, light cycle alone likely increases chances of a female pheno by 10-20% (imo lacking synergistic effect of the rest of the environment.) This of course has no basis other than general observation+theoretics.
But these light cycle and environmental factors _have _been tested multiple times to my standards (and likely yours.) As have strain, and temp. The likelihood that time of year matters when in a controlled indoor environment is minimal as it would be something absurd like solar radiation or magnetism from the ground, which would more than likely have an exaggerated effect on a plant outside. Light cycle is considered time of year indoors.

Just look it up. The info is out there. So quit thinking you're so smart, you're being ignorant. 2 seconds found a thread just like this where people were making no progress (like me) in trying to explain that it is a mix of both genotype and phenotype. Why do people think its only one cause when absolutely no evidence supports it being a sole reason? Then I found this and suggest you read it before replying. Granted I only skimmed, so I am making the assumption it aligns with what i said. And granted I think a little of this WAS influenced by personal experience/opinion but that doesnt mean its wrong..... http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-medical-marijuana-growing/741353-how-produce-mostly-females-standard-seeds.html

By more females, i was more specifically referring to phenotype. If you don't understand fully the difference of pheno vs geno, read 4-6 articles/essays on the difference, then come back. You might understand how annoying it is to keep seeing posts like this. I have not been arguing opinion, I was arguing facts. No "I think its this" bull shit...


shishkaboy said:


> I think sex is a genotypical trait.


I was just trying to say the same shit i've been saying since i joined this thread. Which you should re-read because I went on about control groups and proper procedure.


----------



## Dannabis! (Jan 22, 2015)

Heygurlll said:


> As I have noticed, little quirks like this are usually followed like a superstition. I also have noticed through reading tons of threads and through personal experience (only with regular seeds from amatuer breeders and bagseed from all around northern california) that environment+stress is the most reliable way to control ratios. I find this backed by the fact that cannabis is a hermi prone plant, and male genotyped seedlings DO sometimes show female phenotypes if conditions are favorable. IME the "How to grow more females from reg seeds" advice is rather accurate.


Totally agree, stoner culture is known to grab on to a superstition and run with it.

Considering amidst the people with decent experience, there's wunderkinds running around pretending to know everything in the school yard.

Personally it seems that bad environmental factors will make males of the best seeds and well controlled conditions produce more females.

I'd call bs on seed shape.


----------



## calicocalyx (Jan 22, 2015)

I only tried to get more female plants because on the round before I get 7 out of 10 males. At first I accepted that's just how the dice roll but then realized I gave them the right conditions to get more males. I have seen other people say they've tried to get more females and it seemingly worked. I haven't read of anyone doing this and it not working. In regards to environmental factors that is.


----------



## Sativied (Jan 22, 2015)

Heygurlll said:


> So I got 0 extra genetic females.




Good posts man... err.. woman.


----------



## calicocalyx (Jan 22, 2015)

I'm in the same boat with too many females, not sure who to trust cause I don't want anything with a tendency to hermi, and these are for my outdoor.


----------



## Heygurlll (Jan 22, 2015)

calicocalyx said:


> I'm in the same boat with too many females, not sure who to trust cause I don't want anything with a tendency to hermi, and these are for my outdoor.


same here. the tendency is not too bad to herm back, and ive read the pheno is usually hard-set after 4 weeks of flower as long as its not overstressed.

Maybe this technique is better for professionals....


----------



## shishkaboy (Jan 22, 2015)

Heygurlll said:


> I have no clue how many more females phenos I got. Obviously, you cant change genotype without turning it into a gmo. So I got 0 extra genetic females. The point was, I did the known tricks (light, humidity, temp, nutes were all "female friendly") to get 80-100% female, and what do you know, I have more females than i planned for. I am recommending the light cycle because humidity, temp, and nutes all fluctuated outside the range plenty of times, and while the light may not be the SOLE reason, it HAS been proven to be a determining factor. In my mind, light cycle alone likely increases chances of a female pheno by 10-20% (imo lacking synergistic effect of the rest of the environment.) This of course has no basis other than general observation+theoretics.
> But these light cycle and environmental factors _have _been tested multiple times to my standards (and likely yours.) As have strain, and temp. The likelihood that time of year matters when in a controlled indoor environment is minimal as it would be something absurd like solar radiation or magnetism from the ground, which would more than likely have an exaggerated effect on a plant outside. Light cycle is considered time of year indoors.
> 
> Just look it up. The info is out there. So quit thinking you're so smart, you're being ignorant. 2 seconds found a thread just like this where people were making no progress (like me) in trying to explain that it is a mix of both genotype and phenotype. Why do people think its only one cause when absolutely no evidence supports it being a sole reason? ..... http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-medical-marijuana-growing/741353-how-produce-mostly-females-standard-seeds.html
> ...


Maybe your on your period or something but, I thought we were having an intelligent convo. The name calling because I disagree with you, is just idiotic. Why is it that you say I "think im so smart," because I know how to argue my opinions?
You said yourself that its a theory and that some is based on personal experience/opinion, but that doesnt make it a fact. Just because theres a thread on grasscity doesnt make the information in that thread fact. The slope seems a little slippery. I totally understand your theory, but disagree. My theory is funky light cycles gonna give your more herms. Since it wants to herm anyway, according to you. Sorry, I dont have the time to read the link you posted right now, I know the rules were to read it before replying and all, but I got a lotta trimming to do.

Then I found this and suggest you read it before replying. Granted I only skimmed, so I am making the assumption it aligns with what i said. And granted I think a little of this WAS influenced by personal experience/opinion but that doesnt mean its wrong
yet later you say.
I have not been arguing opinion, I was arguing facts. No "I think its this" bull shit... I was just trying to say the same shit i've been saying since i joined this thread. Which you should re-read because I went on about control groups and proper procedure.
lol. Have a nice day.


----------



## shishkaboy (Jan 22, 2015)

Dannabis! said:


> Totally agree, stoner culture is known to grab on to a superstition and run with it.
> 
> Considering amidst the people with decent experience, there's wunderkinds running around pretending to know everything in the school yard.
> 
> ...


More than how many?
So, let me get this straight. Average conditions = 50/50 right?
Female conditions =80%-100% females right?
So to totally disprove this I just need to find one case where there were female conditions and less than 80% females? Too easy. 
Even main stream breeders in laboratories have theories based on experience, they cannot be called fact.


----------



## calicocalyx (Jan 22, 2015)

shishkaboy said:


> More than how many?
> So, let me get this straight. Average conditions = 50/50 right?
> Female conditions =80%-100% females right?
> So to totally disprove this I just need to find one case where there were female conditions and less than 80% females? Too easy.
> Even main stream breeders in laboratories have theories based on experience, they cannot be called fact.


Well let's see that link for less than 80% females with "female" conditions. Of course everyone here can claim what they want, but it seems like plenty of people trying to get more female/female expressed plants have reported altering condtions and achieving desired results. I'm not definitively saying one way or the other but since I have become a big fan of seed growing and pheno hunting, and I like having females around, I'm gonna keep trying to get those. Well you know what in a few rounds if it seems to be working, I might try and get males, see what happens. Most sample grows (at least mine) are pretty small so growing 10 seeds out once, is not going to be enough of an answer for most. I think there already is at least an experienced breeder that has chimed in to support this on this thread. What do any of the commercial breeders have to say? Even in humans there are people of either sex that identify as the opposite of what their genitalia are. I know it's apples and oranges, but that's kind of how I think of genotype and phenotype in regards to the sex of the plant. She might wear a dress and look like a girl but stress her out and she'll lift up her skirt an show ya balls (heygurl says he read different with regard to hermies I hope he's right for my own sake). Reptiles' sex can be influenced by temperature, is it such a leap to say that a plant can? There's too much shouting and name calling and dogma here for so called advanced cultivation. Pretty much every revolutionary scientific discovery flies in the face of what was previously known and I'm with you on proving and verifying but it seems like it's already been done. I see noobs teaching noobs and can understand the immediate rejection of someone's conjecture/misunderstanding (which is usually where the problem lies) and even earlier in this thread people seemed to be yelling at each other and arguing the same points from different points of view. Ask questions, clarify, refine, when in doubt grow it to know it. I have yet to meet someone that knows everything and doesn't make mistakes, I have seen plenty of people that act like they think they do.


----------



## Heygurlll (Jan 22, 2015)

shishkaboy said:


> More than how many?
> So, let me get this straight. Average conditions = 50/50 right?
> Female conditions =80%-100% females right?
> So to totally disprove this I just need to find one case where there were female conditions and less than 80% females? Too easy.
> Even main stream breeders in laboratories have theories based on experience, they cannot be called fact.


Dude, its because the evidence is empirical; so overwhelming that you are pissing me off. We aren't running tests anymore, we are following technique at this point. Its not our job to do these tests every fucking time. We get much better results EVERY TIME by controlling environment, as most of us were in the same 50-60% female boat. Just fucking read around, then try it yourself. You ARE being ignorant. This (environment affecting gender) occurs in many plant (and amphibian, reptile, fish, and insect) species. While species like crocodiles can have the geno decided before hatching by temp, cannabis can change its pheno after popping.

To totally disprove this, you must provide overwhelming and reliable evidence (much more than one fucking time.)

Intelligent conversation my ass..... For that to happen, the two parties need to actually understand what they are talking about, no need to ACT smart yet resort to "Even main stream breeders in laboratories have theories based on experience, they cannot be called fact." Definitely arguing your opinion successfully.... Why dont you go do all the work reading 1000 seeds dna code(at 2-5 different stages in plant life), then accurately grow/label/log them. Have fun learning what we already know. Its been tested. Do the reading yourself. Then ask experienced growers on ANY cannabis forum.

You are the kind of person who doesn't even fully understand the definition of theory vs law. You made me realize i misspoke by even mentioning the word theory. These personal statements are hypothesis. They are based on scientific observations (well at least mine and everyone else who says yes on environmental factors. Where's YOUR basis for these light cycles causing higher hermie rates.... A few personal grows.....) 
Once tested to the point where the answer/results are deemed accurate do hypothesis become theories. This can take 15 repeated controlled experiments. It could take 10000. Theories postulate why something happened, laws say what happens no matter what (no explanation of why). How to get more females is a full blown tested and "proven" theory.

Yes, drastic light cycle changes AFTER week 4 have proven increased chances of herm. thats why i either 12/12 from week 5 on, or work back to 16/8, 18/6, or 24/0 quickly. Not like the sun keeps consistent hours or even angle in the sky anyways.....Personally when I really want a lot of hardy females, I clone a plant. Screw seeds.



shishkaboy said:


> ....Why is it that you say I "think im so smart," because I know how to argue my opinions?.....
> You said yourself that its a theory and that some is based on personal experience/opinion, but that doesnt make it a fact. Just because theres a thread on grasscity doesnt make the information in that thread fact. The slope seems a little slippery. I totally understand your theory, but disagree. My theory is funky light cycles gonna give your more herms. Since it wants to herm anyway, according to you. Sorry, I dont have the time to read the link you posted right now, I know the rules were to read it before replying and all, but I got a lotta trimming to do.
> 
> Then I found this and suggest you read it before replying. Granted I only skimmed, so I am making the assumption it aligns with what i said. And granted I think a little of this WAS influenced by personal experience/opinion but that doesnt mean its wrong
> ...


Well first, that LONG ass grasscity thread was a combination of cluttered reposts mixed with sensi-seeds report on "more females." So of course I think some of the post will be affected by human errors,assumptions, etc.

And by "I think its this" I literally meant people posting their 100% unfounded opinions. At least my opinions/theories/hypothesis aren't unfounded.
"I think its geno.." or "I think its pheno".......
Actually its BOTH. Just use google... If geno had nothing to do with it, fem seeds would not be possible. But if geno had EVERYTHING to do with it, explain how people get pure "males" from fem seeds. Do your reading. Im done with this thread. For real this time. Following this thread is a nightmare. Almost every new poster has made it clear they skipped the beginning of this thread to post an incomplete half-assed answer about the video. I though I explained these plant BASICS rather well, but who knows. Already got a bigger thanks than i felt my short temperedness deserved, thanks guys who actually read my posts and could comprehend them. 

Sorry for repeating the same shit 100 times sativied. Wish I just knew how to let things go. I mean why do I feel the NEED to help people grow better. It doesn't affect me? Let these fuckers drive nails through their stems, boil the roots, cultivate/add citrus mold. I say screw the superstition. I only call my plants "girls" after pre flower. Its just another superstition to put a new grower in the right mentality. I have sat there and called all my plants males/boys just for fun,and OMG, I still got the same ratios I was getting.




calicocalyx said:


> Well let's see that link for less than 80% females with "female" conditions. Of course everyone here can claim what they want, but it seems like plenty of people trying to get more female/female expressed plants have reported altering condtions and achieving desired results. I'm not definitively saying one way or the other but since I have become a big fan of seed growing and pheno hunting, and I like having females around, I'm gonna keep trying to get those. Well you know what in a few rounds if it seems to be working, I might try and get males, see what happens. Most sample grows (at least mine) are pretty small so growing 10 seeds out once, is not going to be enough of an answer for most. I think there already is at least an experienced breeder that has chimed in to support this on this thread. What do any of the commercial breeders have to say? Even in humans there are people of either sex that identify as the opposite of what their genitalia are. I know it's apples and oranges, but that's kind of how I think of genotype and phenotype in regards to the sex of the plant. She might wear a dress and look like a girl but stress her out and she'll lift up her skirt an show ya balls (heygurl says he read different with regard to hermies I hope he's right for my own sake). Reptiles' sex can be influenced by temperature, is it such a leap to say that a plant can? There's too much shouting and name calling and dogma here for so called advanced cultivation. Pretty much every revolutionary scientific discovery flies in the face of what was previously known and I'm with you on proving and verifying but it seems like it's already been done. I see noobs teaching noobs and can understand the immediate rejection of someone's conjecture/misunderstanding (which is usually where the problem lies) and even earlier in this thread people seemed to be yelling at each other and arguing the same points from different points of view. Ask questions, clarify, refine, when in doubt grow it to know it. I have yet to meet someone that knows everything and doesn't make mistakes, I have seen plenty of people that act like they think they do.


Thanks for a post that is based in REALITY. This thread is so aggravating, sorry if I came off as fitting into that bit.
I am no expert. I am experienced. But I have been wrong plenty of times. I have realized that i was arguing sometimes unnecessarily, but trying to help and getting the same nonsense for 10 days is much past my level of tolerance. I know that I for sure said both the whole way, and thats all that matters to me now.
And I'd like to make the point, this SHOULD be under NEWBIE CENTRAL. Absolutely NOTHING advanced about this thread.


----------



## calicocalyx (Jan 22, 2015)

No worries man, I'm here to learn, not flex. Thanks for the info. I'm all about cloning that desired female too, but have yet to find "the one". I've grown from clone for years, I have also gotten pests from other people and run into situations where people are tired of smoking the same old dank. I'm on a pheno hunt. Everyone has blue dream, but have you had calico's blue dream? Nomsayin?


----------



## shishkaboy (Jan 24, 2015)

I wasnt even going to respond to your last comments, but I have a some free time right now.

Where's YOUR basis for these light cycles causing higher hermie rates?
I will quote your last post.
Yes, drastic light cycle changes AFTER week 4 have proven increased chances of herm. thats why i either 12/12 from week 5 on, or work back to 16/8, 18/6, or 24/0 quickly. Not like the sun keeps consistent hours or even angle in the sky anyways....
When I gave my opinion what makes you think that its not based on actual experience or facts? Why would you just assume that I have no basis for my arguments? Ok, I didnt give one but I didnt include it because its such a simple concept that all growers with any experience have this basic concept down.
You actually think that you can use you light cycle to affect how many females appear in your garden AFTER germination and I think you are wrong. In fact I know you are wrong, even you know you are wrong. Heres the proof, take any seed germinate it, and before the 4 weeks are when the sex is hardcoded into the seed(according to your theory and no its not a hypothesis, because it would need to be an educated guess). Make a genetic copy of that plant by cloning or tissue culture or what ever. Then you can do what ever you want with your lights, the only difference will be is that you might get an extra hermie.
This is common knowledge, even the most novice growers will tell you just like I did. This is why I "think" [not a fact, just my opinion (again which is the difference between my posts and yours)] that once the seed germinates it "knows" what sex it is already and that only stress will change that. 
I actually want to thank you for a good argument, even tho I "think" you were playing a little unfairly and throwing low blows. It was fun, but your wrong.

See ya round, all the best.


----------



## Heygurlll (Jan 24, 2015)

Now you want me to *clone* a plant to do an experiment about "how to get more females *from seed*"? I said I'm done with this try hard conversation. Read notsoesoteric's link about cannabis possibly NOT being a diploid cell. Then tell me how clones are an accurate representation of anything (maybe a 90% accurate representation of a SINGLE seed). I won't see it; I clicked unwatch 
You still don't seem to understand what you are talking about. Saying stress is the only way to change sex... Dumbed way down, Ive been saying exactly that. You dont understand what "stress" is now. Just living, the plant is stressed. When you give it "female friendly stress (en-vi-ron-fucking-ment)" for 2+ weeks early on, zap, you got "more females."
First you said light cycle will just stress plant, then you say stress is the ONLY way to affect gender, and light cycle has nothing to do with it.. Do I smell hypocritical circular logic?
Try hard much?..


----------



## shishkaboy (Jan 24, 2015)

Heygurlll said:


> Now you want me to *clone* a plant to do an experiment about "how to get more females *from seed*"? I said I'm done with this try hard conversation. Read notsoesoteric's link about cannabis possibly NOT being a diploid cell. Then tell me how clones are an accurate representation of anything (maybe a 90% accurate representation of a SINGLE seed). I won't see it; I clicked unwatch
> You still don't seem to understand what you are talking about.
> Try hard much?..


@Heygurlll 
You stated that
"I started a batch a of reg seeds a few weeks ago (11 in proper conditions, plus 3 extra seedlings I really didn't have room for.) on 15/9.
2 weeks in I switched to 14/10. 2 weeks after that It got changed back to 15/9. I worked it up to 18/6 by end of week 5.
Some have started pre flowering. Out of the 11 so far, 5 have shown, withall 5 being female. With 7 more, I feel safe assuming I'll get 3-4 more females, but honestly would not be surprised if I got 90-100% only half-assing conditions. I recommend trying this kind of schedule (15/9 to start, 14/10 weeks 3+4, then either 12/12 or work hours back up) to get more females."
To later say " The point was, I did the known tricks (light, humidity, temp, nutes were all "female friendly") to get 80-100% female, and what do you know, I have more females than i planned for. I am recommending the light cycle because humidity, temp, and nutes all fluctuated outside the range plenty of times, and while the light may not be the SOLE reason, it HAS been proven to be a determining factor. "
You are basically saying that since all these other factors were out of whack it had to be the one factor that you actually had control over that produced your positive results just makes no sense whatsoever. Its observer bias, you cant see anything except your positive results.Your logic is extremely flawed. It is based on a logical fallacy called a slippery slope. To try and point this out to you, 
I stated " So, let me get this straight. Average conditions = 50/50 right?
Female conditions =80%-100% females right?
So to totally disprove this I just need to find one case where there were female conditions and less than 80% females? Too easy.
You said "To totally disprove this, you must provide overwhelming and reliable evidence (much more than one fucking time.) and "Yes, drastic light cycle changes AFTER week 4 have proven increased chances of herm. thats why i either 12/12 from week 5 on, or work back to 16/8, 18/6, or 24/0 quickly. Not like the sun keeps consistent hours or even angle in the sky anyways..."
So I suggested " take any seed germinate it, and before the 4 weeks are when the sex is hardcoded into the seed(according to your theory and no its not a hypothesis, because it would need to be an educated guess). Make a genetic copy of that plant by cloning or tissue culture or what ever. Then you can do what ever you want with your lights, the only difference will be is that you might get an extra hermie."

You actually had the nerve to say
"Now you want me to *clone* a plant to do an experiment about "how to get more females *from seed*"?"
Yet I am the one that doesnt understand the convo. Lol. 
Oh I see you edited so let me answer that part too.
You said "First you said light cycle will just stress plant, then you say stress is the ONLY way to affect gender, and light cycle has nothing to do with it.. Do I smell hypocritical circular logic?"
Maybe I wasnt clear enough on this part. What I meant was that your theory is wrong, and your light cycle changes will not give you more females,only more hermies. How many of the 5 out of 5 females that showed sex are gonna herm out? Only one way to find out. Anyway I know your wrong, you know it and now the whole world does. I dont think you are even that stupid to think I meant for you to clone a plant to see how to get more females from seed, but your running out of things to say. Everything you say can and will be used against you, so come for real.


----------

