# Experienced Electrician! Here to Answer Any and All Growroom Electrical Questions



## bricktown73 (Apr 7, 2009)

Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work. 

Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.

If you want to do some wiring your self, I will either let you know if your project is too complicated if your not handy with electrical, or, *IF YOU ASK*, I will walk you thru your project step by step.

So please, ASK AWAY!!! 

You can post questions here but you may not get your question answerd on the thread, best way to go about it is PM me. You will forsure get a response back.

PS Even if you have basic around the home electrical questions, shoot em my way.


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## here & now (Apr 7, 2009)

bricktown,

got a question for ya. i wanta wire up some sockets for cfls like those vanity lights in bathrooms. say four sockets in a row mounted on a 2x4.

do i wire the sockets in series or parallel?

thx,

h&n


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## bricktown73 (Apr 8, 2009)

here & now said:


> bricktown,
> 
> got a question for ya. i wanta wire up some sockets for cfls like those vanity lights in bathrooms. say four sockets in a row mounted on a 2x4.
> 
> ...


This doesn't really apply to AC current for your project. In theory you would be wiring this in series, just wire the black to the black, white to the white, and if there is a green or just naked wire: green/naked to green/naked. And that is it.


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## dbo24242 (Apr 8, 2009)

How many amps does it take to melt a typical wall socket?


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## here & now (Apr 8, 2009)

got it, thx!


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## Higher Education (Apr 8, 2009)

Hey Brick and everyone, I was wondering how to tell if an outlet is 110v or 220v? I was also wondering how to tell the amp rating of an outlet....any input would be great, thanks.


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## Trunk5 (Apr 8, 2009)

well standard wall sockets in your home are all 110V the ones that are 220v are the plugs for like your fridge, washer and dryer, and posibly your stove if you have electric. most wall sockets wont melt befor you trip the breaker..


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## smoote1987 (Apr 8, 2009)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


Hey brick,

I don't have an electric question, but i just wanted to give you props on that sweet panel you set up there. The fans and exhaust duct pulling hot air of the electronic ballasts is a very smart design, and its soooo clean and organized. do i sense a little touch of OCD. if i have a wiring question soon i know where to come.


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## smokeh (Apr 8, 2009)

hi,

just a couple quick questions.

first of all, what does a surge protector do? lol. is it like an RCD unit? will that cut the power out to that plug socket if theres a short?

i have the correct equipment, 22amp relay with timer running a 600w hps and a small fan, oh and a 125w CFL. will all of this be ok on an extention cable - im not 100% what the ampage is on the cable. then run the extention cable into a plug socket. when i say extention cable, i mean the really big ones on a wheel.

anything else i need to know for safety?


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## smoote1987 (Apr 8, 2009)

smokeh said:


> hi,
> 
> just a couple quick questions.
> 
> ...


Not trying to step on bricks toes or anything just wanted to give a little quick feed back but i'm not trying to answer your questions smokeh just giving my experience. You should wait for bricks response to do anything.

A surge protector as i under stand it will take the hit from a large surge in the power grid before it hits your equipment. If youre looking into those i'd say go with an "ups" unit. They have a battery installed in them and will keep all your low wattage equipment that is plugged into them running if you say have a black out, ie. if you have your lights and air pumps, and whatever plugged into one and have a surge in your power grid, the ups will take the hit instead of your much more valuable equipment and then continue to supply power to your low wattage equipment but not your lights. This is great for those who run hydro and need to keep their air pumps and water pubmps running. 

Oh and if i were you i would buy some lower gauge (the lower the gauge the thicker the chord, right brick?) chord and a nice high volt/watt grounded plug and make my own extension chord for all that power draw. I don't like to put my or my grows safety in equipment that i am not sure will be able to handle the wattage. I like to do over kill, when it comes to safety.


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## bricktown73 (Apr 8, 2009)

smoote1987 said:


> Not trying to step on bricks toes or anything just wanted to give a little quick feed back but i'm not trying to answer your questions smokeh just giving my experience. You should wait for bricks response to do anything.
> 
> A surge protector as i under stand it will take the hit from a large surge in the power grid before it hits your equipment. If youre looking into those i'd say go with an "ups" unit. They have a battery installed in them and will keep all your low wattage equipment that is plugged into them running if you say have a black out, ie. if you have your lights and air pumps, and whatever plugged into one and have a surge in your power grid, the ups will take the hit instead of your much more valuable equipment and then continue to supply power to your low wattage equipment but not your lights. This is great for those who run hydro and need to keep their air pumps and water pubmps running.
> 
> Oh and if i were you i would buy some lower gauge (the lower the gauge the thicker the chord, right brick?) chord and a nice high volt/watt grounded plug and make my own extension chord for all that power draw. I don't like to put my or my grows safety in equipment that i am not sure will be able to handle the wattage. I like to do over kill, when it comes to safety.


Smoote pretty much nailed it. A surge protector is pretty much a multi outlet with a small replacable fuse in it. And you should be fine with a regular 14 guage wire extension chord to run what you need. Good explaination smoote.


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## smokeh (Apr 8, 2009)

ok cheers guys.


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## smoote1987 (Apr 8, 2009)

bricktown73 said:


> Smoote pretty much nailed it. A surge protector is pretty much a multi outlet with a small replacable fuse in it. And you should be fine with a regular 14 guage wire extension chord to run what you need. Good explaination smoote.


Thanks brick, i saw that you were offline and i was reading you thread anyway so i thought it couldn't hurt to post. keep up the good work i love when people offer up help as you have it is a valuable resource.


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## communistcannabis (Apr 8, 2009)

nice thread brick!!


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## stephen94 (Apr 8, 2009)

so with that bathroom vanity fixture, if i use one and use CFL's whats the highest wattage CFL i can use. if i put a 105 W CFL in a standard socket for a 60W incandescent bulb will it only put 60 watts of light to the CFL? or does it read how many watts the bulb can take and sends that much to it? i want to have a vegetation chamber with the CFL's and was thinking of doing that. or i was gonna just get a high wattage CFL and some prewired mogul sockets for it and simply use it. either way. can i use an orange ext cord and wire the lights to the cords inside the orange cord? like just cut one end off the cord and wire the light fixture to it?


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## zappapple (Apr 8, 2009)

Hey Brick-
I need to run approx. 45 ft of 220v cord....What gauge should I be looking for?
Thanks for the professional help, you're photos look awesome!


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## zappapple (Apr 8, 2009)

Also Brick,
What is the best way to make a splice into a unused wash/dryer source? Those twist on wire caps?
Also, is there anything I need to know regarding single phase and 3 phase?
Thanks again.


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## bricktown73 (Apr 8, 2009)

stephen94 said:


> so with that bathroom vanity fixture, if i use one and use CFL's whats the highest wattage CFL i can use. if i put a 105 W CFL in a standard socket for a 60W incandescent bulb will it only put 60 watts of light to the CFL? or does it read how many watts the bulb can take and sends that much to it? i want to have a vegetation chamber with the CFL's and was thinking of doing that. or i was gonna just get a high wattage CFL and some prewired mogul sockets for it and simply use it. either way. can i use an orange ext cord and wire the lights to the cords inside the orange cord? like just cut one end off the cord and wire the light fixture to it?


You can use whatever size CFL you like. And sure, you can wire your fixture to the extension chord.



zappapple said:


> Hey Brick-
> I need to run approx. 45 ft of 220v cord....What gauge should I be looking for?
> Thanks for the professional help, you're photos look awesome!


As long as you dont have more then a 15 amp load you should be fine with 14 guage wire. 45 feet isn't long enough for a significant voltage drop. I would recomend 12 gauge wire.



zappapple said:


> Also Brick,
> What is the best way to make a splice into a unused wash/dryer source? Those twist on wire caps?
> Also, is there anything I need to know regarding single phase and 3 phase?
> Thanks again.


Yes, you can use "wirenuts" to spice into any source that has power. I use IDEAL tan wire nuts, but if your power source wire is larger like 10-6 gauge you will need red or blue wirenuts.

Single phase means your electrical service is providing you with 2 hot wires. 3 phase means you are recieving 3 hot wires. Some equiptment requires on or the other so watch for that.


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## Dr.WhiteWeed (Apr 8, 2009)

can u explain to me step by step how to set-up a 600W hps to a ballast with an air cooler system attached. I will give mad +rep for this/


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## Higher Education (Apr 8, 2009)

Trunk5 said:


> well standard wall sockets in your home are all 110V the ones that are 220v are the plugs for like your fridge, washer and dryer, and posibly your stove if you have electric. most wall sockets wont melt befor you trip the breaker..


Thanks, but how do I determine the ampere rating of a particular outlet?


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## joshbigbuds (Apr 8, 2009)

you will come in handy you are soo kind


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## Falzone (Apr 9, 2009)

hi brick you are the answer to my prayers i hope, anyway im gonna be running 5x 85 watt cfl 1 x 105 watt cff on a 8 plug powerstrip , im also gonna be running a *95cfm Active Air squirrelcage fan w/CAN 2600 filter on that powerstrip . My question is I have that powerstrip plugged into a digital timer rated for 15 amps, i wanna know if these 6 lights and that fan are gonna work without exploding that timer or the wall outlet?*


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## bricktown73 (Apr 9, 2009)

Dr.WhiteWeed said:


> can u explain to me step by step how to set-up a 600W hps to a ballast with an air cooler system attached. I will give mad +rep for this/


I dont exactly understand the question. Most ballast just plug right into a wall outlet, and for cooling the light, I attach an inline fan at around 300cfm to suck air from the lights to cool them and evacuate the air in the room. Look at pic. Hope this helps. 



Higher Education said:


> Thanks, but how do I determine the ampere rating of a particular outlet?


 Most outlet are 15 amp. You can buy heavier duty plugs that can handle 20 amps. But, I believe you are asking how to determin the amount of load on a circuit. You need an amp meter, you can get on at lowes or home depot. They are simple to use just read the instructions.



Falzone said:


> hi brick you are the answer to my prayers i hope, anyway im gonna be running 5x 85 watt cfl 1 x 105 watt cff on a 8 plug powerstrip , im also gonna be running a *95cfm Active Air squirrelcage fan w/CAN 2600 filter on that powerstrip . My question is I have that powerstrip plugged into a digital timer rated for 15 amps, i wanna know if these 6 lights and that fan are gonna work without exploding that timer or the wall outlet?*


You should be fine. A good rule of thumb is for every 100w you are running, consider that about 1 amp. the equation is... watts/voltage = amperage

Ex. 1200w / 120v = 10amps


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## bricktown73 (Apr 9, 2009)

Here are some pics of venting for the lights


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## bugrit2000 (Apr 9, 2009)

Hi! 

ive got a question , can i wire a light dimmer switch to an exhaust fan ,to controll the fans speed? the fan is 12w/60hz,and the dimmer switch is 220w/3A -200 watts 


thanks


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## bumting (Apr 9, 2009)

were can i find a lamp that takes a g23 bulb?


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## zappapple (Apr 9, 2009)

Thanks you Brick!!

Your knowledge is valuable to all of us with little to no electrical experience.
Safety is critical to this part of a garden.
KEEP UP THE HELP !

Zapp-


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## SYROUS (Apr 9, 2009)

Hey sparky i want to run 6 lights of three ballasts in intervals 3 lights at a time,how should i go about this my friend


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## smokiedog (Apr 9, 2009)

hey man, great thread. lots of good info here. how would you wire this hps ballast / ignitor /socket? It is a 120v 100 watt HPS. I have a 120v heavy duty grounded power cord to use for this. 

just need to know what wire goes where...


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## Higher Education (Apr 11, 2009)

bricktown73 said:


> I dont exactly understand the question. Most ballast just plug right into a wall outlet, and for cooling the light, I attach an inline fan at around 300cfm to suck air from the lights to cool them and evacuate the air in the room. Look at pic. Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> Most outlet are 15 amp. You can buy heavier duty plugs that can handle 20 amps. But, I believe you are asking how to determin the amount of load on a circuit. You need an amp meter, you can get on at lowes or home depot. They are simple to use just read the instructions.
> ...


Thank you brick.


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## Atarijedi (Apr 11, 2009)

I'd like to mention some quick things about electricity so we don't have 100s of redundant questions. First off, I'm an EE, so not as knowledgeable as bricktown73 in house wiring, standards and code, but I should be able to help out a bit in the theory. 

The wiring coming from 1 breaker in your breaker box I will refer to as a circuit. 

Most circuits are connected to a 15A Breaker/Fuse in your breaker box, this means that you can have 1800W of power on that circuit. You calculate that by using Ohms Law P (Power in Watts) = V (Voltage in Volts) * I (Current in Amps), or P = 120V * 15A. Now, I usually like to take a more conservative approach and use a Voltage rating of 110V, which would give us 1650W. So a 600W HPS bulb, at 110V would be using 5.454... Amps

So, our circuit can supply a maximum of 1650W. This means you can add anything you want to the circuit, as long as you don't go over 1650W, I would include a tolerance level, like 1% or 2% of that level, because breakers/fuses aren't perfect. So on this 1650W circuit, you could have 1-600W MH for Vegging, 1-600W HPS for Flowering, and 450W worth of Fans, Pumps, Electronics etc...

When wiring things using house wire, it is usually 14 gauge, although I am sure you could probably get it thicker (lower number), 14 gauge is usually rated to handle 17A maximum. 

Also, I doubt you will ever find a house that has 3-Phase power going into it, unless it was ordered as a specialty thing, so don't worry about it, and I would just away from products that require it.


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## MyGTO2007 (Apr 12, 2009)

thie eletric shit is confusing


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## her.moore (Apr 12, 2009)

Right now I am running 2 - 400 watts hps lights, 304 watts in fluorescent lights, 188 in pumps and fans. I planned to add a Sentinel MDT-! Master Digital Timer set up and 2 - 600 watts lights to my system and a Can Fan 6' 138 watts. would i need to run a line to the breaker box or will it work by plugging into the socket? my home was built in 2006.
*
*


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## petrushka (Apr 12, 2009)

My first grow will be 600W MH/HPS for most of the time + another 600W during the last weeks of flowering. (compact ballast, *not *digital)
I always thought that a simple timer could handle it and _already_ bought a digital one in a grocery store (TÜV)certified for 3120W (OWIM 9159 TIMER SWITCH not online 230-240V 13A). But now I read here that it won't handle it:http://www.greenshorticulture.co.uk/Grow-Lights-182/Accessories-287/Maxiswitch-2-Way-Light-Controller-10A-Day-Night-1248.asp

My question: 
*Should I trust the grocery timer, get this Maxiswitch apparatus, or this timer from a hydroponics website:*http://www.growland-hydroponics.com/Legrand-Omnirex-Timer

The expense would be USD0, USD60 or USD20 respectively.


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## kkee00 (Apr 12, 2009)

Hey, great thread! 
I've been wondering for a while now if I were able to use a 150W HPS lamp with my 400W HPS ballast and ignitor.
Also, how much would getting a digtal ballast reduce the cost?

Thanks ahead.


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## Atarijedi (Apr 12, 2009)

@her.moore

Ok, so right now you are running 1292W worth of stuff on one circuit. I am assuming its all on one 15A breaker, which is fine, and gives you about 398W left over.

If you want to add the 2 lights and the Can Fan, which is an additional 1338W, you will need to use a 2nd circuit (or "line"), either way, you can just use a plug in the wall if you can find one that isn't on the same circuit as the other stuff. All standard sockets are rated for at least 15A @ 120V, which is 1800W. As for running a new line out to the box, I would recommend that you ask brick about that, as he would know more about the standards and housing code involved. I know most houses are wired for a 200A service, so you might not even have space for a new breaker.


@petrushka

I don't think you'll have any problem with the timer you bought, as long as you don't try and use more power than its rated for. I don't know exactly what kind of timer it is, but if it is the kind with the dial and the movable arrow thingies, then it will be fine. Lots of people use those because they are cheap and work well.

@kkee00

I wouldn't advise using a 150W bulb with a 400W Ballast. The point of a ballast is to limit current because gas discharge bulbs, like HPS and MH, cannot limit current themselves, so they eat it up until they over heat and burn out or the breaker/fuse goes. A 150W bulb on a 400W ballast would probably burn up.


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## petrushka (Apr 12, 2009)

Atarijedi said:


> @petrushka
> 
> I don't think you'll have any problem with the timer you bought, as long as you don't try and use more power than its rated for. I don't know exactly what kind of timer it is, but if it is the kind with the dial and the movable arrow thingies, then it will be fine. Lots of people use those because they are cheap and work well.


Thank you for the swift response!
The timer switch has no dial/arrows. (As I said before) it is digital. It has 8 buttons, an LCD display, 140 programs and other functions. It cost me USD10. There is no pic online. All info info I found was the link I provided. Should I better get one of the two others? Can I use this one at least for the fan?


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## greenpassion (Apr 12, 2009)

how many lights can you run in a 2400 sq ft house 4 beds without power company suspis ?? 5 x 1000 watts ???


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## Atarijedi (Apr 12, 2009)

@petrushka

Since its rated for over 3000w, which is far beyond the power you will probably be using. Also probably beyond what any 1 circuit with a 15A breaker will provide. I think it is safe to use that timer for lights as well as the fan.


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## Atarijedi (Apr 12, 2009)

greenpassion said:


> how many lights can you run in a 2400 sq ft house 4 beds without power company suspis ?? 5 x 1000 watts ???


All I can say about this is that I do not know the policies of your local power company to say whether or not they will be suspicious of sudden increases in power, and what their threshold for notifying the police would be.

A couple of ideas I have always thought about, if I ever went big, is to call the power company BEFORE doing anything, and have them install a larger, or extra service breaker box, standard size is 200A, get a secondary 100A box installed, and tell them you are starting a home welding or fabricating business. This would explain the increase in power usage.


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## petrushka (Apr 12, 2009)

Thank you!


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## greenpassion (Apr 12, 2009)

so do you think 5 x 1000 watt hps for flower is too much my friend she runs 4000 she said no prob .


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## Atarijedi (Apr 12, 2009)

greenpassion said:


> so do you think 5 x 1000 watt hps for flower is too much my friend she runs 4000 she said no prob .


I don't think it is too much, I am just saying I don't know what level of power usage will cause your power company to question what is going on.

Realistically, I could say that power companies don't expect high power usage between 8pm and 6am. However, 5000W isn't that high, and I don't think you will have any problems.


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## greenpassion (Apr 12, 2009)

geezz what a bunch of bullshit it is i keep going back and forth on how many cause of the damn power companies i think my power bill is only about 50 $ a month i get billed every two months


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## Atarijedi (Apr 12, 2009)

I would start small and work my way up.


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## greenpassion (Apr 12, 2009)

yeah i already had a 3000 watt setup at another house im planning on using a ebb and grow 48 pot hydro system instead of soil though this time


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## greenpassion (Apr 12, 2009)

if you dont mind me asking how many lights have you run before ?


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## Atarijedi (Apr 12, 2009)

I helped a friend set up a 10000 watt (10 1000w) system. We did it over 6 months to lull suspicions. Suddenly jumping to 10000 watts is very suspicious, but gradually getting up that high over x number of months isn't as bad. We also had another 100A service box installed under the auspices of using it for pool and hot tub heating. I believe he eventually added some solar panels and wind turbines to help offset his power usage.


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## greenpassion (Apr 12, 2009)

well thats how i plan to do it anyways is veg 2000 24 hrs for 1 1/2 months then move to 5000 for a the flowering months. anyways thanks for the info .


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## hazetastic808 (Apr 12, 2009)

Wish I would have came across this earlier I am going to just copy my post if you could help me out with it.







hazetastic808 said:


> I wanted to use some sort of flat fluorescents such as T5s, but after looking into it, it costs like $200 to ship anything that size to me even for the bulbs. So I'm looking into solutions from the hardware store instead. I'm looking into making a fixture similar to the T5HO 1s you can buy online, only using the 4 pin flat fluoros, specifically these http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100532502&N=10000003+90145+530216 and http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100159815&N=10000003+90145+530216 in a configuration like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## calibob (Apr 12, 2009)

can I run a smaller wattage lamp with a higher wattage ballast?


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## bricktown73 (Apr 12, 2009)

Atarijedi said:


> I'd like to mention some quick things about electricity so we don't have 100s of redundant questions. First off, I'm an EE, so not as knowledgeable as bricktown73 in house wiring, standards and code, but I should be able to help out a bit in the theory.
> 
> The wiring coming from 1 breaker in your breaker box I will refer to as a circuit.
> 
> ...


Atari nailed the last few posts I haven't had a chance to answer. Good job atari. This thread is also for installation instruction too.


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## Atarijedi (Apr 12, 2009)

hazetastic808 said:


> Wish I would have came across this earlier I am going to just copy my post if you could help me out with it.


Only the 2nd link worked for me, the 1st one said the product wasn't there anymore, but I'll assume it was a PL tube also.

Ok, so, you want to use PL's, which are Compact Fluorescent lights. Most compact fluorescents have the ballast built into the base. According to the description of the 2nd link, it says it will go into any socket a incandescent bulb will go into, so that means it doesn't need a ballast (ballast is built in), so it seems you only need to wire up regular light bulb sockets, do it in parallel so if one burns out, the rest will stay on.


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## Atarijedi (Apr 12, 2009)

calibob said:


> can I run a smaller wattage lamp with a higher wattage ballast?


If you mean HPS or MH, then no you can't. Ballasts are meant to limit current because the bulbs can't do it themselves, so they will eat all the current they can until they burn themselves out. 

If you stick a 400W HPS bulb on a 600W Ballast, it has an extra 200W of power it WILL use, and more than likely will just burn itself out.


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## hazetastic808 (Apr 13, 2009)

Atarijedi said:


> Only the 2nd link worked for me, the 1st one said the product wasn't there anymore, but I'll assume it was a PL tube also.
> 
> Ok, so, you want to use PL's, which are Compact Fluorescent lights. Most compact fluorescents have the ballast built into the base. According to the description of the 2nd link, it says it will go into any socket a incandescent bulb will go into, so that means it doesn't need a ballast (ballast is built in), so it seems you only need to wire up regular light bulb sockets, do it in parallel so if one burns out, the rest will stay on.


Thanks for the help, I'm still a bit confused though, mainly about the part where you say it will work in any socket a incandescent will work in. But it has the 4 pin connector rather than the twist-on like normal bulbs. I'm mainly looking for information on what other materials I will need besides the bulbs themselves to run a series of them in a row like the pic I posted. 

I know they have twist-on sockets that plug right into a y splitter, do they have something similar for these PLs with the 4 pin connectors that would plug right into an electrical outlet?


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## Atarijedi (Apr 13, 2009)

hazetastic808 said:


> Thanks for the help, I'm still a bit confused though, mainly about the part where you say it will work in any socket a incandescent will work in. But it has the 4 pin connector rather than the twist-on like normal bulbs. I'm mainly looking for information on what other materials I will need besides the bulbs themselves to run a series of them in a row like the pic I posted.
> 
> I know they have twist-on sockets that plug right into a y splitter, do they have something similar for these PLs with the 4 pin connectors that would plug right into an electrical outlet?



I said that based on what is in the description in the link you provided, and I assumed there is a adapter socket in the package, maybe on the back side. 

But I did a little bit of research, and I found that they do make screw-in adapters for PL's with a GX24 base, which is what the bulbs you linked to use.

Here is an examples of one http://www.goodmart.com/products/543083.htm


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## hazetastic808 (Apr 13, 2009)

Atarijedi said:


> I said that based on what is in the description in the link you provided, and I assumed there is a adapter socket in the package, maybe on the back side.
> 
> But I did a little bit of research, and I found that they do make screw-in adapters for PL's with a GX24 base, which is what the bulbs you linked to use.
> 
> Here is an examples of one http://www.goodmart.com/products/543083.htm


Thanks much your a great help!


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## Maybetomorrow (Apr 13, 2009)

Whats a good rule of thumb when it comes to how much draw/ will raise an eye of the electric company and police? any rule of thumb for that one?


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## saywhat (Apr 13, 2009)

Can you plug a HID Ballast into a GFCI protected circuit, one that trips between 4-6mA not the GFI type that trips at 30mA. Because the winding in the ballast will take a few mS to return on the current carrying neutral thus leaving in imbalance in the startup only which would trip the GFCI. I ask because I was going to run my shit on an ungrounded floating delta system so I can have one ground fault without tripping the system. The Ground fault protection will be around the B phase. Also I know I can cornerground the B phase, but not really feeling like taking a power outage. An ungrounded system definately needs ground fault protection but I don't want nuessance tripping! ARGGGGG


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## Atarijedi (Apr 13, 2009)

saywhat said:


> Can you plug a HID Ballast into a GFCI protected circuit, one that trips between 4-6mA not the GFI type that trips at 30mA. Because the winding in the ballast will take a few mS to return on the current carrying neutral thus leaving in imbalance in the startup only which would trip the GFCI. I ask because I was going to run my shit on an ungrounded floating delta system so I can have one ground fault without tripping the system. The Ground fault protection will be around the B phase. Also I know I can cornerground the B phase, but not really feeling like taking a power outage. An ungrounded system definately needs ground fault protection but I don't want nuessance tripping! ARGGGGG


Sorry, but I don't know enough about 3 phase to help you out. I learned a bit about it in some industrial controls courses, but it mainly focused on PLCs. You'll have to wait for either brick to answer you, or for an industrial electrician to come by. 

Although, I can say that from what I remember, I didn't think that Delta systems had a neutral, only some Wye configurations did.

You must have a huge power requirement if you are going 3 phase though!


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## Maybetomorrow (Apr 13, 2009)

Sorry about that missed a whole page of reading. Great thread! +rep


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## bricktown73 (Apr 13, 2009)

saywhat said:


> Can you plug a HID Ballast into a GFCI protected circuit, one that trips between 4-6mA not the GFI type that trips at 30mA. Because the winding in the ballast will take a few mS to return on the current carrying neutral thus leaving in imbalance in the startup only which would trip the GFCI. I ask because I was going to run my shit on an ungrounded floating delta system so I can have one ground fault without tripping the system. The Ground fault protection will be around the B phase. Also I know I can cornerground the B phase, but not really feeling like taking a power outage. An ungrounded system definately needs ground fault protection but I don't want nuessance tripping! ARGGGGG


Sure, you can plug an HID into a GFI. A GFI is just that, it protects against ground faults, not voltage spikes. You may be think if AFCI which will trip the breaker when a very small arc occurs.


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## Atarijedi (Apr 13, 2009)

Does a GFI work with 3 phase though? In a delta system, there is no neutral, only live 1, live 2, live 3 and ground.


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## saywhat (Apr 14, 2009)

yes a gfi works on an ungrounded system. all the ground fault protection is a measure of current coming in and current leaving. when there is an imbalance then it will trip. so on a three phase three wire system plus ground you put the ct's around the b phase. Granted it is not a corner grounded system the current still has to have a return path. But anyways I am calling some manufactures of GFCI's becauase it takes some power to charge the ballast. Ok after talking to some manufactures they have said the following: It depends on the size/type of the ballast. They have had some flourescents trip some of thier products. (strange?) None the less it seems like as long as your not pushing the circuit to far than you will be fine. I called four GFCI people and three light fixture manufactures and most were stumped?


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## WantedDreadandAlive (Apr 14, 2009)

Bricktown your setup is phenomenal!! May I ask what it cost in just materials for a setup like that? And also how much money to run something of that caliper per month in electrical and per month supplies for the babies??? Thanx you seem to be the local guru here. Way to apply your skilled craft to your interests.


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## smokiedog (Apr 14, 2009)

smokiedog said:


> hey man, great thread. lots of good info here. how would you wire this hps ballast / ignitor /socket? It is a 120v 100 watt HPS. I have a 120v heavy duty grounded power cord to use for this.
> 
> just need to know what wire goes where...


bricktown- thanks for your input on this. it arrived the other day and i lucked out. it was indeed a "pulse start" ignitor with no separate capacitor needed. AND.. both components had wiring diagrams labled on the side. i connected everything just to test it and it worked like a champ. i have since mounted the transformer and ignitor in a cpu power supply box, used the existing terminal to wire the grounded power cord and used an 8 foot 14 gauge lamp cord for the mogul socket. turned out to be a nice little DIY remote ballast for under 25.00. i'll post pics of it if that's ok with you...
+rep for your insight. 
thanx bro


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## Tidalwavedave (Apr 14, 2009)

How would I connect a computer fan to a 110v outlet? Thanks


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## MJG420 (Apr 14, 2009)

I am running a 400w light and my exaust fan on a 14 gauge extension cord, is that too much? I would really prefer to have outlets but there are none close, the breaker box is on the other side of the wall of the room I am using. I have now idea how to do any kind of electrical work, the breaker box seems to be a bit outdated. I think there is an open breake but once again I have now idea how to hook it up without fryin myself or my equipment


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## benvegas (Apr 14, 2009)

What does a regular average joe do to run a 50amp 220v line from the circuit box to another room, and then connect that 50amp line to the 220v receptical that comes with a light distribution box? Once the power is to the box, I'm good from there, but I'm limited in running electrical lines. There's plenty of room on the circuits and two boxes from the power plants to choose from already. I dont know what wire to use, what parts would be needed, or how to do it.  I'm great if I can see it done once, but this is a little trickier than asking "a friend'. 

Thanks!


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## smokiedog (Apr 14, 2009)

Tidalwavedave said:


> How would I connect a computer fan to a 110v outlet? Thanks


 
this isnt the most technical of answers but i have done it and it works.... 

look in all your closets and junk drawers, collect all the transformers you have laying aroung the house. these are the big black boxes that plug into the wall and have a thin cord running to whatever they are powering. like cell phone chagers, modems or routers, cordless phones, your old nintendo, etc... they all have output numbers on them. i believe like 6v or 9v or 12v. (somebody correct me if its not volts, i dont have one handy to check) 

the transformer converts or transform the power to a lower voltage so you dont melt that lillte fan. the higher the volts the faster the fan. i just spliced the wires from the cpu fans to the transformer wires. if you mix the wires up the fan just runs in reverse. radioshack sells trasformers with a swith so you can change the output which alows you to control airflow to some degree. i didnt see a use for regulating a fan that small so i just used what i had around the house. you can also wire two fans to one power supply/transformer if you wanted an intake and outtake


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## sow217 (Apr 15, 2009)

Hi brick and others,

My friend will be setting up a Flowering Room in a 8ftx8ftx8ft walk in closet with no outlets inside of it. There are numerous regular wall outlets in the room attached to the walk in closet. How do you suggest he hooks the following room up. I am not aware of how many amps each wall outlet is.. im assuming its just a standard wall outlet. How do you suggest he gets this up and and working in a safe manner? All help is appreciated. Thanks!

He will have 2x1000 hps with reflective air cooled hoods. These will be cooled by atleast a 300cfm inline fan.

He will have a canfan 100 with carbon scrubber which moves about 750cfm that will exhaust through a cut hole in the door of the walk in closet. One hole for the exhaust canfan100 and also one hole near the bottom for the inline fan.

Also he will have an oscillating fan in the room to move air around.

****My question however is that even though i know the lights will come with a complete system with a ballast for each light i was basically wondering how to plug all these different things in.

He doesnt want to overload the circuit or blow anything or worse start a fire. 

***So will he be able to simply run an extension cord out of the room to a near by wall outlet and plug it in there, then connect the other end of the extension cord in the flower room to a multi power outlet or adapter(otherwise known as a power strip). would i be able to plug and successfully run everything in the room i have named by just simply plugging it into the powerstrip thats connected to the extension chord or will this not work?

Should the fans be connected together on one powerstrip and extension chord and run into the other room outside the walk in closet where they can be plugged in? and then do the same for the lights on another powerstrip and extension chord?

I really have no idea what would work best. Please let me know anything you suggest. He feels this room has great potential, he just wants to make sure he does it the right way.

If anyone could answer my questions I would really appreciate it.


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## sow217 (Apr 15, 2009)

bump bump bump...

anybody at all with any suggestions?

Any help would be greatly appreciated


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## Titan4jah (Apr 15, 2009)

Is it hard to upgrade a circuit breaker to get more power available in a room?


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## bricktown73 (Apr 16, 2009)

Titan4jah said:


> Is it hard to upgrade a circuit breaker to get more power available in a room?


Installing a circuit breaker is a matter of turning a flat head screw driver a couple times. But you can't put a larger circuit breaker into replace a smaller one becuase the wire size is only suited for that breaker size. If you want to upgrade your breaker size you will have to run new wire.



sow217 said:


> Hi brick and others,
> 
> My friend will be setting up a Flowering Room in a 8ftx8ftx8ft walk in closet with no outlets inside of it. There are numerous regular wall outlets in the room attached to the walk in closet. How do you suggest he hooks the following room up. I am not aware of how many amps each wall outlet is.. im assuming its just a standard wall outlet. How do you suggest he gets this up and and working in a safe manner? All help is appreciated. Thanks!
> 
> ...


Basicall, add up the total watts of his equiptmetn and divide by 120. So for example, to find out how many amps you are pullin: watts(1200) / volts (120)= amps (10).

Usually, 1 room will have 1 dedicated circuit. But, I think that you are going to pull well over 15 amps, which is what a normal house circuit is. I would suggest after finding out how many amps you are pulling, to run new dedicated lines to this room. That way you have no fear of tripping breakers and not have other rooms go out.


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## Mcgician (Apr 16, 2009)

Atarijedi said:


> I helped a friend set up a 10000 watt (10 1000w) system. We did it over 6 months to lull suspicions. Suddenly jumping to 10000 watts is very suspicious, but gradually getting up that high over x number of months isn't as bad. We also had another 100A service box installed under the auspices of using it for pool and hot tub heating. I believe he eventually added some solar panels and wind turbines to help offset his power usage.


Holy shit, now that's what I call dedication! With that kind of electricity drain though, the solar panels are/were merely props. Same for the wind turbines. Most people have no idea how much energy a kwh really is. And I used to be in the solar business! Most of the people we dealt with were just trying to stop getting screwed over by the energy companies and get off the grid. Also, most of them were older, retired people with things like that to think about and spend their money on. Unfortunately, at least in Cali, without the huge rebates the state offers, photovoltaic systems would be far fewer. Energywise, most families could probably equal or even surpass their electricity demands more by using gas ranges and dryers or even by (and I hate to admit it) hang drying their laundry. 

Also, and sorry if I missed it in this huge thread, but the formula is Amps X Volts= Watts. My grow room had to be rewired with 2 additional 20 amp circuits, and almost every amp got used.


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## Tidalwavedave (Apr 16, 2009)

Thanks for help


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## sow217 (Apr 16, 2009)

bricktown73 said:


> Installing a circuit breaker is a matter of turning a flat head screw driver a couple times. But you can't put a larger circuit breaker into replace a smaller one becuase the wire size is only suited for that breaker size. If you want to upgrade your breaker size you will have to run new wire.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks for your help brick.. i honestly have no experience at all with anything electrical. how would i run new dedicated lines to the room? The walk in closet is attached to a master bath room with plenty of outlets and the master bedroom is also right next to the closet. could i run two separate lines or thick heavy duty extension chords, One to the bathroom outlets and one to the master bedroom outlet from two separate powerstrips in the closet?


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## GreenBully (Apr 16, 2009)

i? for the electric man...im designing an under water grow op..i want to run 2 600 watters or or 4 400watters powered by an external solar or wind turbine generated energy..maybe even a water mill..my ? is whats the odds of theis being a beneficial source to power these lights and also what would be the better option.and how cost effective is it???


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## ElephantSteppedOnMyFoot (Apr 16, 2009)

I only have 120V outlets and I use two 600W electronic ballasts @ 120V. Is there any benefit to using a 240V electronic ballasts vs a 120V?

I never considered, until reading this thread, adding my power consumption. My room is on a 15A 120V circuit while my two 600W electronic ballasts are running that leaves 600W which should run safe on that circuit, if I'm correct. 

Item------------------Watt
2 x 600W HPS----1200W
12 x 26W CFL------312W
5 x 25W pump-----125W
Can-Fan 6"----------73W
16" Fan--------------77W
--------------------------------------
Total --------------1787W

Do surge protectors or timers use power? Would you say I'm looking good here? Should I be thinking twice before plugging in my shop vac or another lamp?


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## x15 (Apr 16, 2009)

hi, bricktown 

do you happen know if i would need to use any special outlets or wiring for the inside a formal greenhouse where there will be drains, water hoses...? i'm having an electrician over next week to do the work

thanks


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## MJG420 (Apr 17, 2009)

Hey brick did you catch my post? Just wonderin


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## skoolzone (Apr 17, 2009)

quick question .... will i benefit at all from having a 220/240 light ballast ? if so how do i wire a 220/240 plug


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## smokiedog (Apr 17, 2009)

sow217 said:


> thanks for your help brick.. i honestly have no experience at all with anything electrical. how would i run new dedicated lines to the room? The walk in closet is attached to a master bath room with plenty of outlets and the master bedroom is also right next to the closet. could i run two separate lines or thick heavy duty extension chords, One to the bathroom outlets and one to the master bedroom outlet from two separate powerstrips in the closet?


i believe brick is suggesting you add a coulple of breakers to your box and run dedicated outlets to that closet. this way you dont trip a braker when you use a hairdryer or your alarm clock goes off. 
it isnt hard but can seem overwheling if you have never done it before. 
it basically involves adding 2 new circut breakers and running cable from them to the closet and then installing a few wall outlets. honestly, snaking the wire through the wall and fixing any sheetrock is a bigger pain in the ass than the electrical part of this job. if your closet is close to the breaker box it wont be so bad, if your breaker box is in the basement and your on the third floor its a little more challenging but still doable. 

you can pick up an "idiots guide to wiring" or somthing similar DIY book at the Depot or there are probably basic breaker box/outlet wiring tutorials on youtube. 

look at your existing fuse box and see if there are empty spots to add more breakers before you do anything else.


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## chunkymunkey33 (Apr 18, 2009)

Hey Brick and others with electrical knowledge. I first want to commend you for sharing your experience with us. Second, I have an outlet that is one that will fit a plug like the one pictured below. I am wondering if I can switch this to a regular outlet so that I can run an extention cord to my disgnated area since that outlet has it's own 20 amp circuit. Is there one outlet that would be better than another or one that I should stay away from? Can they handle that amperage? Also, is it as easy as unscrewing a couple of screws and putting the wires on the new one and tighten the screws? ( I know to shut down the circuit)


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## Xephro (Apr 18, 2009)

chunkymunkey33 said:


> Hey Brick and others with electrical knowledge. I first want to commend you for sharing your experience with us. Second, I have an outlet that is one that will fit a plug like the one pictured below. I am wondering if I can switch this to a regular outlet so that I can run an extention cord to my disgnated area since that outlet has it's own 20 amp circuit. Is there one outlet that would be better than another or one that I should stay away from? Can they handle that amperage? Also, is it as easy as unscrewing a couple of screws and putting the wires on the new one and tighten the screws? ( I know to shut down the circuit)


Hey chunkeymunkey the configuration of that plug tells me your outlet is likely 230V (perhaps once used for a window A/C). If so replacing it with a standard 110V receptacle could result in serious damage to your equipment, or worse! See if the breaker that controls it is single-pole (110V) or double pole (230V). Better yet use a voltmeter testing straight blade to straight blade to verify it's voltage 100% before changing it out.


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## chunkymunkey33 (Apr 18, 2009)

Xephro said:


> Hey chunkeymunkey the configuration of that plug tells me your outlet is likely 230V (perhaps once used for a window A/C). If so replacing it with a standard 110V receptacle could result in serious damage to your equipment, or worse! See if the breaker that controls it is single-pole (110V) or double pole (230V). Better yet use a voltmeter testing straight blade to straight blade to verify it's voltage 100% before changing it out.


It is for a window a/c. How can I tell if it's single or double pole? I haven't taken the front panel off yet but I will. What do I look for? Or if I get a voltmeter, I just put one point in flat recepticle and the other in the other flat recepticle?


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## chunkymunkey33 (Apr 18, 2009)

Ok so I just took the face off of the air conditioner and it has a 230 volt to 208 volt range. So do I just a single pole breaker of the same amperage and switch it and move the white wire to the neutral bar?


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## bricktown73 (Apr 18, 2009)

The benifit of running a 240 or 220 volt ballast is you use half the wattage.


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## chunkymunkey33 (Apr 18, 2009)

The only problem is I already have my equipment and it's all 120. Is that the way to do it though, the breaker?


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## ElephantSteppedOnMyFoot (Apr 19, 2009)

ElephantSteppedOnMyFoot said:


> I only have 120V outlets and I use two 600W electronic ballasts @ 120V. Is there any benefit to using a 240V electronic ballasts vs a 120V?





skoolzone said:


> quick question .... will i benefit at all from having a 220/240 light ballast ?


-I see a response by bricktown I believe to these two questions-



bricktown73 said:


> The benifit of running a 240 or 220 volt ballast is you use half the wattage.


If I understand what your saying, using Lumatek ballast as an example, a 600W 240V Lumatek ballast uses half the wattage of a 600W 120V Lumatek ballast?

So then it must cost half as much to run a A 600W 240V Lumatek ballast vs 600W 120V Lumatek ballast even if their both 600W ballast right?


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## iloveit (Apr 19, 2009)

Im in the U.K. & I was wondering if installing a key meter would eliminate the electric company from visiting me for readings or pretty much anything else?


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## chunkymunkey33 (Apr 19, 2009)

ElephantSteppedOnMyFoot said:


> -I see a response by bricktown I believe to these two questions-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That isn't what I was asking though.


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## chunkymunkey33 (Apr 19, 2009)

chunkymunkey33 said:


> Ok so I just took the face off of the air conditioner and it has a 230 volt to 208 volt range. So do I just buy a single pole breaker 15 amp and switch it and move the white wire to the neutral bar?


This is the question I had.


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## ElephantSteppedOnMyFoot (Apr 20, 2009)

chunkymunkey33 said:


> That isn't what I was asking though.


I know chunkymunkey, skoolzone and I asked those questions before you ever posted in this thread and the response seems to be in regard to our questions not yours.

That's why I was trying to see if bricktown's response was in regard to our questions, which are both basically the same, or your questions. 

This electrical stuff takes a bit to wrap your head around thanks so much everyone.


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## suav3 (Apr 20, 2009)

can i just plug the lights into the wall socket if im only using one or two ? and just use an extension cord for the fans nd what not ?


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## NegligentMother (Apr 21, 2009)

i live in the new england states, and i have a problem. my circuit keeps blowing in my one room. i run 2 k watts and i have to run my exhaust and light cooling from an extension cord to another room. this isnt a problem until im gonna need an a/c unit this summer. everything in the house besides the drier hookup is 120v. what are my best options for not blowing my circuit when i wanna install an a/c


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## FCSoldier (Apr 21, 2009)

this may sound like a stupid question, but I was wondering if my exhaust fan should be stronger than my intake fan?


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## NegligentMother (Apr 22, 2009)

FCSoldier said:


> this may sound like a stupid question, but I was wondering if my exhaust fan should be stronger than my intake fan?



yes. if you want good air flow. if its not then you'll get a lot of dead air in the room.


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## Ratboy (Apr 22, 2009)

bricktown73 said:


> The benifit of running a 240 or 220 volt ballast is you use half the wattage.


No either voltage ,same wattage is used,Only diff is amps,which means more lights can be run off circuit,smaller gage wire can be used.Some magnetic ballists will run a little cooler off 240 volts but will still use same amount of power.A 110 volt 1000 watt hps will use 1000 watts,a 240 volt 1000 watt hps will use 1000 watts too,You pay for watts not amps.


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## ElephantSteppedOnMyFoot (Apr 22, 2009)

Thank you Ratboy. That is what I thought. Running 240V would not serve much benefit.

So I would see no reason to buy a 240V ballast vs a 120V, especially if you don't have 240V outlets.

Rather then replace my 120V ballast and run a 240V line I should just run another 120V line once I come to my circuits limit.


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## TokinPodPilot (Apr 22, 2009)

OK, electrical experts... I have a similar situation to chunkymunkey33 as far as the layout of my apartment's circuit. I have a wall A/C unit that is connected to a 230v receptacle wired to two breakers paired together. Since the A/C doesn't work well at all and the apt manager doesn't want to replace it, I've decided to reroute that power to better use. What I am looking to do is use that 15A 230v receptacle, wire an appropriate plug (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=22873-334-5666-L&lpage=none) into about 30ish feet of 12 gauge wire to the grow room. The other end would terminate in a junction box (like http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=10029-223-E987N-CAR&lpage=none) which would connect to a Solatel LP-240S light timer. Plugged into that would be 2 Dual-600W 240V ballasts for a total of 2400W of HPS lights . So the questions I have are:

1) Am I on the right track? Will this actually work or am I on a path to doom and destruction?

2) Stupid simple question.... what do I do in the junction box? Just match wires and cap them together?

I'm sure there's more I should ask, but I am stoned.... anywho... thanks in advance for any advice.


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## Ligerius (Apr 23, 2009)

great! finally a thread for electrical questions that would seem suspicious to ask the home depot salesman. well im not sure how much you know about using leds, but any help you could offer would be great. So i am trying to put together my own led grow light panels, pretty much copying this guy who has been experimenting with leds as grow light for a while. He has a DIY section on his website, the link is http://www.creatiesintechniek.nl/Led/diy.html anyways, i am planning to have about 30 leds, running at 2 watts each, at a constant current of 700ma. the thing that confuses me about leds is the drivers they use. the guy recommends using the LM3404HV switching current regulator, however the only led drivers i have been able to find that use that regulator are the LM3404HV evaluation boards, here is a link to it http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=LM3404HVEVAL-ND However i am unfamilar with what an evaluation board really is, or whether it will work without modification, or even work at all. So in short do you think it will work as an led driver for me?


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## Hemp4Victory (Apr 23, 2009)

I sat and read through this thread and learned some excellent information. I have a question of my own now though. I recently bought a 400W remote ballast. Can run 110V,220V, or 347V. I wired everything up to the 110V because that was the voltage of my outlet. The ballast was running fine for about a week. Within the last couple days it has started to buzz/hum VERY loudly. To the point where it is hard to talk to people in the room. I called the electrical supply store and the guy seemed to be giving me the run around. He mentioned that the ballast came pre wired for 347V. Any idea what he meant by pre wired seeing as none of the connections had been made until I started joining wires. I checked for all possible sources of the buzzing(loose connections, loose mounting hardware, etc) and I cannot find a problem in setup. Any ideas? The buzzing is way too loud to be normal and it is causing a great deal of suspicion from everyone who visits my house.


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## Purplecheeser (Apr 23, 2009)

im going to be running about 3000w in a garage. should i add a breaker thats rated at like 30A to keep things safe and run fans, vortex, light movers off the house power?


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## humble learner (Apr 23, 2009)

how do I make that set up in the thread starters first post with the four ballast on it?


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## Hemp4Victory (Apr 23, 2009)

Bob Huxell said:


> im doin a small grow and i wanted to know if its possible to plug smaller mh or hps bulbs into regular sockets/fixtures. i was thinkin juse like 100 watt bulbs or less. maybe 150. iff this isnt possible. why not.?


The ballast is a necessary component when using HID lighting. Your regular socket does not work in the same way that a ballast does and therefore will not properly ignite your MH/HPS bulb. My understanding is that the ballast acts to regulate the current being fed to the bulb which is essential for proper operation of a MH or HPS bulb. I'm not the Licensed Electrician though so there may be something I am missing. This just comes from my knowledge as an amateur electrician and the things I have gathered while researching Metal Halides and High Pressure Sodiums.


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## heathaa (Apr 24, 2009)

people say incandescent bulbs are bad. last year i grew a sativa strain over 4 feet tall on one 75 watt incandescent bulb. turned out to be a male. but i have learned if you keep the bulb 2 to 3 inches off the plant it will grow. i have also learned with some strains to alternate between light and sun so the plant doesnt become top heavy. ive always started outside in natural sun untill veggie state and then i begin putting them on the 75 watt for over night. i have two plants one is 4 inches tall grown on sunlight and i have one 9 inches tall grown on sunlight for first 2 weeks of growth then i put it on 24 cycle of incandescent. they do work!!


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 24, 2009)

chunkymunkey33 said:


> This is the question I had.


Hey chunky, you have the idea. Kinda. For a normal 110 volt circuit you would have 3 wires, black (Hot), White (Neutral), and Green (Grounding wire). To make it a 220 circuit you would add a fourth wire (Usually red) that wire would be considered hot as well. 
In order to change the 220 into 2-110 volt outlets, you need to change the dipole breaker for 2- single pole breakers. Check the manufacturer of your panel and go get the right ones at one of the big box stores, I used 20 amp breakers just to be safe and I used 12 wire instead of the normal 14 used for most household circuits. 
Remove your old wire from the dipole breaker or turn the old receptacle into a work box for the 2 circuits you want. I would have a tendency to redo it with new wire from the service panel out, it can be done using the existing wires. The black wire would be used to run one circuit and the red wire would be used as the hot for the other circuit. The white wires ( the 2 new ones and the old one) would all be tied together, they are returns and you can attach the green wires to a screw in your new work box. I just did this for one of our members, it is really as simple as abc and in this case d. Took less than an hour, we did not have to go through any walls. 
Remember when you turn off the main switch to connect the wires in the service panel, you will want a good flashlight and someone to hold it for you would be nice. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 24, 2009)

heathaa said:


> people say incandescent bulbs are bad. last year i grew a sativa strain over 4 feet tall on one 75 watt incandescent bulb. turned out to be a male. but i have learned if you keep the bulb 2 to 3 inches off the plant it will grow. i have also learned with some strains to alternate between light and sun so the plant doesnt become top heavy. ive always started outside in natural sun untill veggie state and then i begin putting them on the 75 watt for over night. i have two plants one is 4 inches tall grown on sunlight and i have one 9 inches tall grown on sunlight for first 2 weeks of growth then i put it on 24 cycle of incandescent. they do work!!


Sound great, got any pictures, we like pictures, a picture is like a thousand words and did I mention we like pictures. Not in a thread about electrical questions, that doesn't mean we don't like pictures. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 24, 2009)

Bob Huxell said:


> im doin a small grow and i wanted to know if its possible to plug smaller mh or hps bulbs into regular sockets/fixtures. i was thinkin juse like 100 watt bulbs or less. maybe 150. iff this isnt possible. why not.?


Because they are bigger around than the regular socket, they have a MOGUL BASE. The sockets are available at Hydro Shops with the cord attached for about $10.00. VV


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## freeskier (Apr 24, 2009)

hey brick hows it going.. i want to set up a cfl fixture but not sure on how to wire it and exactly what supplies i need to do it. i was walking thru walmart the other day and saw some sockets and house hold wire and sttuff like that. would i be able to use that stuff, how do i set it up and would thewy each have a different plug in or could you wire it all to the same plug> please reply i need help.


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## con10twithlosing (Apr 24, 2009)

Have a question bout some wiring. I have an inline fan I would like to hook up to this 4 PC fan controller.
http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1156&ID=1709#Tab4

User Manual here (w/pics of controller wiring)
http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Upload/Product/Download/e0534231-f7e9-4e50-9a46-28d55d17f3c4/A2140_en_050916.zip
My fans have a green, black and white wire. I had it spliced into a PC 3 prong plug. If you need more detailed pics of the wiring I can take them.


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## con10twithlosing (Apr 24, 2009)

I use one of these setups with my Aerogarden.
https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/159868-diy-cfl-fixtures.html

It can be used in soil grows too. An even cheaper way which alot of people seem to do is to buy a "squid" type extension cord combined with prong to socket converters which can be bought at Lowes or Home Depot as well and hang the cfls like that. Some people use bathroom vanity light setups and just hang those. Pretty much anything with a fixture can be used. The more flexible the better to adjust around your plants growth of course.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 25, 2009)

You know what I always say, got any pictures. Here are some that may help, I call it wiring a plug. The screw and wire colors would be the same if this was a fixture instead of a cord. VV


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## heathaa (Apr 25, 2009)

well last night i changed to cfls due to the glory talk of them i was just wondering i have single plant with one cfl 1200 lumens 20 watts is that sufficient


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## Max Girth (Apr 25, 2009)

I currently run five 65 watt CFLs (2700k) for flowering 3 - 4 plants.
They are mounted to a modified ceiling fan.
Homemade "slip rings" route the 110v to the 5 CFLs.
My question is simple...

I have an old school (core and coil?) 1000w HPS ballast.
Can this ballast run multiple smaller wattage lamps?
My thought is, if this is possible, I could remote locate the ballast, and run the output (2 wires) through my "slip rings), and perhaps swap out the CFLs for HPS. If I had 5 200w HPS lamps (do they come in that wattage?), could they all run off of a single 1000w ballast?
If yes, how would they be wired?


I think it's great that you have offered your expertise in this forum.

Thanks in advance!

Max G


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## NegligentMother (Apr 25, 2009)

Max Girth said:


> I currently run five 65 watt CFLs (2700k) for flowering 3 - 4 plants.
> They are mounted to a modified ceiling fan.
> Homemade "slip rings" route the 110v to the 5 CFLs.
> My question is simple...
> ...


LMAO!! does that fan still work?


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## NegligentMother (Apr 25, 2009)

Max Girth said:


> I currently run five 65 watt CFLs (2700k) for flowering 3 - 4 plants.
> They are mounted to a modified ceiling fan.
> Homemade "slip rings" route the 110v to the 5 CFLs.
> My question is simple...
> ...


LMAO!! does that fan still work? Reminds me of Garrisons spinning lights.


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## vapor85 (Apr 25, 2009)

hey brick...could you explain to me what (if anything) is better about digital ballasts as compared to magnetic ones?? And whether I should shell out the extra 200 bucks for a Lumatek over the cheaper kind of ballast.....Thanks


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## Max Girth (Apr 25, 2009)

NegligentMother said:


> LMAO!! does that fan still work?



Of course it does... what would be the point otherwise?


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## Raef (Apr 25, 2009)

which timers do you like best


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## ElephantSteppedOnMyFoot (Apr 27, 2009)

vapor85 said:


> hey brick...could you explain to me what (if anything) is better about digital ballasts as compared to magnetic ones?? And whether I should shell out the extra 200 bucks for a Lumatek over the cheaper kind of ballast.....Thanks


 *Why choose Electronic Ballasts? *

*More lumen output* up to 30% more lumens output than some old style magnetic ballasts ... More light equals more yield. Test this yourself with a good quality light meter. Also check how much power the ballast is using with an ammeter as many so called 600w magnetic ballasts now draw up to 750w as standard to try to keep up with electronic ballasts lumen output. 
*More lumens generated per watt of electricity consumed* electronic ballast have increased efficacy over magnetic ballasts. They lose fewer watts from the power supply to the lamp. The high frequency output results in low power loss at the cathodes in addition to better overall power management. 
*Fast start-up* It reaches full brightness in less than one minute; magnetic ballasts typically take about twenty minutes. 
*Completely silent* No noise or vibration of any kind
*Small compact design* 600watt 120v ballast weighs less than 4.5 kilos compared to almost 20 kilos for magnetic ballasts. 
*Produce less heat* Less heat generated by the ballasts allows cooler running of the environment
*Cut-off circuitry* Cuts off when a short is detected. For safety. 
*Longer bulb life* Lumen output loss over time, with the correct lamp, is dramatically less than with magnetic ballasts. 
*Interchangeable* electronic ballasts can light both HPS and MH bulbs.

This link from *L**umatek* answers FAQ and includes a great explanation as to why electronic ballast can be up to 30% brighter.


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## chasdabigone (Apr 27, 2009)

i have a ballast question for Fluorescent bulbs. I have a Fulham Workhorse 7 ballast, rated for 220w. I have 2 55w T5 HO bulbs plugged into it now (110w used). I want to know if I can plug in a 100w Fluorex CFL to it also. The 100w bulb does not have a ballast built in like many do. It uses a mogul socket, which I can wire to the chain... I just don't want to blow anything up


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## macwmv (Apr 27, 2009)

how dangerous is it really to run 10amps off a outlet meant for 9?


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## SHOTTY6868 (Apr 28, 2009)

Ok so i finally found an electrician. I am certain my answer is yes but i wanted to make sure. I want 2 220v receptacles off 1 line in. Cant i just jumper over off the first receptacle and add my new. I would be using a total of 7.5 out of 15 amp breaker?


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 28, 2009)

chasdabigone said:


> i have a ballast question for Fluorescent bulbs. I have a Fulham Workhorse 7 ballast, rated for 220w. I have 2 55w T5 HO bulbs plugged into it now (110w used). I want to know if I can plug in a 100w Fluorex CFL to it also. The 100w bulb does not have a ballast built in like many do. It uses a mogul socket, which I can wire to the chain... I just don't want to blow anything up


Got any pictures?? VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 28, 2009)

macwmv said:


> how dangerous is it really to run 10amps off a outlet meant for 9?


It wouldn't be dangerous, if this really is what you have it would just trip the breaker. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 28, 2009)

SHOTTY6868 said:


> Ok so i finally found an electrician. I am certain my answer is yes but i wanted to make sure. I want 2 220v receptacles off 1 line in. Cant i just jumper over off the first receptacle and add my new. I would be using a total of 7.5 out of 15 amp breaker?


Yes you can, I would be inclined to install a work box, the deep one. and do a pigtail drop to the 2 receptacles. Gives you more room to tie things together, you could add a 3 and 4th later if you decided to. I haven't seen many 15 amp 220 breakers, this must be from a 'window air conditioner? VV


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## SHOTTY6868 (Apr 28, 2009)

No its just an old ass house that hasnt had a upgrade in a while. There is 2x10amp 220v breakers, 2x 15 amps 240 and 2 20 amp 240


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## fauxsho02 (Apr 28, 2009)

Hey, I just posted a help ad that I hope maybe you could help me with. heres the link...https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/188402-help-how-many-cfls-into.html


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## chasdabigone (Apr 28, 2009)

the first pic is the ballast info sticker, the second one is how i hope i can wire up the lights. That is how the wiring diagram says to string them together, I just don't know if the mogul socket/light is able to be powered by this ballast. The ballast is rated for 220w, and with the 2 T5's and the mogul, it comes to 210w


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 28, 2009)

chasdabigone said:


> the first pic is the ballast info sticker, the second one is how i hope i can wire up the lights. That is how the wiring diagram says to string them together, I just don't know if the mogul socket/light is able to be powered by this ballast. The ballast is rated for 220w, and with the 2 T5's and the mogul, it comes to 210w


The base of that bulb is the ballast. No additional ballast is needed, just screw it into a mogul base and plug it in. VV


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## chasdabigone (Apr 28, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> The base of that bulb is the ballast. No additional ballast is needed, just screw it into a mogul base and plug it in. VV


the base of this bulb is NOT the ballast, it is an unballasted CFL


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## alphawolf.hack (Apr 28, 2009)

i have a 175 watt lamp and ballast it has a metal halide bulb and puts out 14,000 lumen what can i do with this? ( i found it in a closet and repaired then did an experiment and had nice results with a 6000 lumen bulb) now i have a nice room with proper ventilation and drip irrigation feeding system co2 all the bullshit... im kinda a newbie i have only attempted once now... with proper results.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 29, 2009)

chasdabigone said:


> the base of this bulb is NOT the ballast, it is an unballasted CFL


Thats funny, I have one of those bulbs in a light on the side of my garage, there is no ballast added. The ballast of the 13 watt cfl's is in the base. Prove me wrong, wire the mogul base, screw the bulb in and plug it in. VV


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## chasdabigone (Apr 29, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> Thats funny, I have one of those bulbs in a light on the side of my garage, there is no ballast added. The ballast of the 13 watt cfl's is in the base. Prove me wrong, wire the mogul base, screw the bulb in and plug it in. VV


that was the first thing i tried, didn't work... this is a 100w replacement CFL that does not have a ballast in it... it is not a 13w CFL, it actually uses 100w


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## chasdabigone (Apr 29, 2009)

chasdabigone said:


> that was the first thing i tried, didn't work... this is a 100w replacement CFL that does not have a ballast in it... it is not a 13w CFL, it actually uses 100w


so i just tried to plug it into the ballast... when i connect both wires, it causes sparks, but when i attach just one hot lead wire from the ballast, it lights up a small part on the light. I tried to take a picture of it, but it is hard to see. Only the top little part of the light is lit. Does this mean I need a different ballast?


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## tilemaster (Apr 29, 2009)

How many HID's can run on a 20amp breaker. 2K of light? but then u gotta figure ur fans / humidifiers out and exhaust right? 2 outlets in garage on a 20amper. breaker box is like 3 feet from the grow in the garage tho. wuts the best to do. put a bigger breaker in w/ beefy romax wire runnin to some new outlets? right now im runnin a 600 and a 400, but i wanna add a/c and another HID, where does that put me?


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 30, 2009)

tilemaster said:


> How many HID's can run on a 20amp breaker. 2K of light? but then u gotta figure ur fans / humidifiers out and exhaust right? 2 outlets in garage on a 20amper. breaker box is like 3 feet from the grow in the garage tho. wuts the best to do. put a bigger breaker in w/ beefy romax wire runnin to some new outlets? right now im runnin a 600 and a 400, but i wanna add a/c and another HID, where does that put me?


IF...this mean you have a satellite box in your garage that is powered using a 20 amp breaker from your main panel.... then it would not come close to being enough available power for a decent op. ELSE....IF you mean your main service panel is three feet from the garage, then you need to examine and report on that panel.
Start with the Main Switch, how many amps is that?? Are there any empty spaces (places where a switch could go) in the service panel??
The best solution is dependent on what exist there now. In my case, I had to upgrade my main service. This made it a project instead of a job, yours could be a simple as running a few new circuits, about an hour long job, and no it doesn't require any beefy romex, 12-3 will power 20 amp circuits, no problem. VV


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## danrasta (Apr 30, 2009)

any one here no how to make a ballast from scratch on a budget ? any help please


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## tilemaster (Apr 30, 2009)

no its a main breaker box 3ft from my grow in the garage. its got at least 8 slots left in it. house built in 07, and it a 200 amp breaker box new. 20 amp breaker controlls 2 outlets in garage, which i have powerstrips ran off of going direct in2 grow. everything as of now is run off those 2 outlets. 20 amps. like u said if i go get outlet boxs, outlets, a couple of 20's, and new romex, i could easly run more dedicated outlets. i know this much, but how much can i load up existing outlets and 20 amp breaker. ie could i add a 3rd 600w hid to that existing line or is that wat too much? i heard microwaves draw 1800w on a 20 and thats 3 600 HID right?



VictorVIcious said:


> IF...this mean you have a satellite box in your garage that is powered using a 20 amp breaker from your main panel.... then it would not come close to being enough available power for a decent op. ELSE....IF you mean your main service panel is three feet from the garage, then you need to examine and report on that panel.
> Start with the Main Switch, how many amps is that?? Are there any empty spaces (places where a switch could go) in the service panel??
> The best solution is dependent on what exist there now. In my case, I had to upgrade my main service. This made it a project instead of a job, yours could be a simple as running a few new circuits, about an hour long job, and no it doesn't require any beefy romex, 12-3 will power 20 amp circuits, no problem. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 30, 2009)

The only way to answer that with the information you have given is plug them in and try it. When I set up the electric in this room, I ran 4 circuits down each of the outside walls. Glad I did, it has allowed me to experiment with different set-ups. If I were doing it again, I would still does those and add a control panel like the thread starter showed. A lot of that is for the hydro systems, pumps and air stones don't draw many watts, they do have to be plugged in. COde for living space would require a plug every 6 feet of wall, I think 3' is enough in a 'workshop'. Did I mention I usually over build. VV


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## tilemaster (Apr 30, 2009)

theres isnt a certain amount of watts a 20amp breaker is designed to be able to handle?


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 30, 2009)

tilemaster said:


> theres isnt a certain amount of watts a 20amp breaker is designed to be able to handle?


No, it is a certain amount of amps, I think you could figure it out, is the formula watts = volts x amps. So watts divided by volts = amps?? Makes sense to me, 1000watt 110 volt light is about 9 amps? 600 is about 5? 
I think they recommend no more than 80% of load. VV


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## tilemaster (Apr 30, 2009)

gottcha im on a 20amper with 1k of light so far. and all my other equiptment, fans, thermostats controllers etc. so im figuring off ur estimates im easly within 10-15 amps no higher. so i should be good, sounds like for a/c and another HID i need just 1 more outlet w. its own 20 amper. sound right for 2 k of light , 2 dedicated seperate 20 amp breakers and outlets.


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## Alanis (Apr 30, 2009)

Hi Brick
Can you tell me how much a ballast spikes when it is first switched on? (I will probably be using the compact ballast).

Does a digital ballast also spike?

Does the spike depend on the wattage of the bulbs attached to the ballast.
Thanks


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## Dragline (Apr 30, 2009)

Im going to read this thread completely this evening. Until then please take a look at this thread.

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/189216-wtf-light-goes-off-help.html


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## Krawhitham (Apr 30, 2009)

I just moved into a new house and realized that the back room has 100 amps running to it. The room itself is 14ft x 8ft but only 6ft in height What kind of setup potential is there?


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## VictorVIcious (May 1, 2009)

Krawhitham said:


> I just moved into a new house and realized that the back room has 100 amps running to it. The room itself is 14ft x 8ft but only 6ft in height What kind of setup potential is there?


It would make your usable plant height short, you would have to plan on learning some 'bending techniques' to get a good per plant yield. More diameter, less height.
Start with the height of the light, add the distance you need to have the light above the plants, add the height of whatever you are going to put your plants in (hydro system or pots). Deduct that from your 6' of height, I am guessing you will have 3' or less for you plant height. Very doable, a lot of work, its fun work so that is ok. 
Read a few journals that talk about LST (low stress training), lots of good information there. VV


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## oohqt (May 1, 2009)

Hey bricktown. Is it possible to cut the end of a extension cord and wire 4 light bulb sockets safely? Or is there an easier alternitave? Where i live they dont sell lamp holder adapters.


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## VictorVIcious (May 1, 2009)

oohqt said:


> Hey bricktown. Is it possible to cut the end of a extension cord and wire 4 light bulb sockets safely? Or is there an easier alternitave? Where i live they dont sell lamp holder adapters.


One way is to purchase a Vanity Light Bar, they have them up to 3' long and six bulbs, less than $20.00 at the big box stores. You will still need that extension cord to wire it, remember to cut off the female end, color match the three wires form the cord and fixture, simple as abc, black, white, green. VV


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## Thebiglungblowski (May 1, 2009)

How many people use starters or capacitors with a 1000 W dual ballast?? Some electrical advice would be greatly appreciated. I plan on using an existing wall plug.. OR may run my own circuit for this procedure.. so if My lighting is drawing 8.3 amps and my pumps/fans for the grow cabinet and hydro is give or take ~3 amps I should be under 15 amps. I am however concerned about start up on that ballast.. does anyone know? should i have a starter and a cap?


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## VictorVIcious (May 1, 2009)

Thebiglungblowski said:


> How many people use starters or capacitors with a 1000 W dual ballast?? Some electrical advice would be greatly appreciated. I plan on using an existing wall plug.. OR may run my own circuit for this procedure.. so if My lighting is drawing 8.3 amps and my pumps/fans for the grow cabinet and hydro is give or take ~3 amps I should be under 15 amps. I am however concerned about start up on that ballast.. does anyone know? should i have a starter and a cap?


If you have a ballast set up that will operate a hps bulb, then you already have a starter and a capacitor. The are the aluminum covered parts in that ballast box, unless you have a new digital ballast, and then you wouldn't be asking this question. VV


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## Mr.Freedom (May 1, 2009)

Krawhitham said:


> I just moved into a new house and realized that the back room has 100 amps running to it. The room itself is 14ft x 8ft but only 6ft in height What kind of setup potential is there?


sea of green or screen of green comes to mind


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## Mr.Freedom (May 1, 2009)

My question is would it be safe to use wire splicing nuts to tap a main mid line? The main cannot be shut off so beyond rubber gloves are there any additional safety tips? If it matters it is underground service. Overall goal is to add a 60 amp sub panel. Thanks for any help


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## aba (May 2, 2009)

*Is there a way to cut down the electricity bill by doing something to the wires?* 
*Thanks in advance.*


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## Thebiglungblowski (May 2, 2009)

No you cannot do anything to the wires to reduce the amount of energy consumed.. what you pay on your power bill is not POWER. It is the consumption of energy. You use what you use and thats that.


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## johnnysacoseeds (May 2, 2009)

BT,

I've got an existing 48" fluorescent fixture in a closet I'm converting. Can the switch be changed out to hard-wire a digital timer? Does such a thing exist? Kind of pointless to keep it in there if I can't get it to run in conjunction with my HID lamps. If this cannot be done, can I remove the fixture and wire an outlet in it's place?
Thanks!


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## Mr.Freedom (May 2, 2009)

johnnysacoseeds said:


> BT,
> 
> I've got an existing 48" fluorescent fixture in a closet I'm converting. Can the switch be changed out to hard-wire a digital timer? Does such a thing exist? Kind of pointless to keep it in there if I can't get it to run in conjunction with my HID lamps. If this cannot be done, can I remove the fixture and wire an outlet in it's place?
> Thanks!


your best bet would be to bypass the switch by connecting the wires or just do something to make sure the switch is not accidently turned off. Yes you can wire an outlet in. Just disconnect the wires and connect them to a socket. Black wire to brass screw "black to brass to save your ass". If you want to save the fixture you can pick up a decent extension cord and wire it to it. add one digital timer and problem solved.


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## johnnysacoseeds (May 2, 2009)

Thanks for the help!


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## gristlegrower (May 3, 2009)

Not enough juice in my house but plenty of power/amps. I'm constructing a closet grow with a 1000W HPS, 2 fans, pumps, etc. in a 4x4' closet.
Should I put in a 20amp or 30 amp circuit?
Thanks!


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## VictorVIcious (May 4, 2009)

Mr.Freedom said:


> My question is would it be safe to use wire splicing nuts to tap a main mid line? The main cannot be shut off so beyond rubber gloves are there any additional safety tips? If it matters it is underground service. Overall goal is to add a 60 amp sub panel. Thanks for any help


It is not possible to have a circuit you can't turn off, there is a switch somewhere. It may be in the meter, there is a switch somewhere. Your questions show you are not qualified to work on a live circuit. I am not stupid enough to work on a live circuit and I have been wiring my own outlets etc. for a little over 40 years. Maybe not working on live circuit is the reason I have lived this long.lol ALWAYS TURN THE SWITCH OFF FIRST. VV


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## LegalizeCannabisHemp (May 4, 2009)

bricktown73 said:


> Most outlet are 15 amp. You can buy heavier duty plugs that can handle 20 amps. But, I believe you are asking how to determin the amount of load on a circuit. You need an amp meter, you can get on at lowes or home depot. They are simple to use just read the instructions.


ok.. so I need a lesson in the ABC's, whats the difference between socket, and outlet? or is it the same? sorry for such a dumb question, just want to be on the same page.

is the outlet what you plut your electric cord into? 

How does constant load work & what exactly is it, and how does it effect the lights,

So most houses are wired with 14 gauge wire.. Which will support a 20 amp load on that particular "circuit"to the breaker? ..

so lets take a bedroom for example, say there is 4 outlets, now if i flip one of my switches at my breaker box, one side of the wall still works.. so thats on a separate"circuit" that the other side of the wall? 
*i need help with terms too*


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## VictorVIcious (May 4, 2009)

LegalizeCannabisHemp


> ok.. so I need a lesson in the ABC's, whats the difference between socket, and outlet? or is it the same? sorry for such a dumb question, just want to be on the same page


.

Not much different electrically, sockets are usually for light fixtures, outlet usually refers to a plug.



> is the outlet what you plut your electric cord into?


yep



> How does constant load work & what exactly is it, and how does it effect the lights,


Just like it sounds, it is the 'constant load' that the lights use after start up and it doesn't effect the lights.



> So most houses are wired with 14 gauge wire.. Which will support a 20 amp load on that particular "circuit"to the breaker? ..
> 
> so lets take a bedroom for example, say there is 4 outlets, now if i flip one of my switches at my breaker box, one side of the wall still works.. so thats on a separate"circuit" that the other side of the wall?
> *i need help with terms too*


Most outlets and sockets are wired with 14 wire because it cost less and is big enough to meet code. I don't use it for 20 amp circuits, I use 12. 
If you did that, and that was the result, you are correct, there must be 2 separate 'circuits' in that room. This does not mean they don't go to other rooms too. VV


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## Captn (May 4, 2009)

dbo24242 said:


> How many amps does it take to melt a typical wall socket?


typical receptacles are rated to 15a 120v, you do find some 20amp in homes, tho. then you get into the larger 2-pole receptacles for dryers and stoves and such. but if you have it on the correct breaker then it won't melt, unless it grounds out, then it will arc some just before the breaker trips


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## Captn (May 4, 2009)

Mr.Freedom said:


> My question is would it be safe to use wire splicing nuts to tap a main mid line? The main cannot be shut off so beyond rubber gloves are there any additional safety tips? If it matters it is underground service. Overall goal is to add a 60 amp sub panel. Thanks for any help



If I'm not mistaken, it sounds like you're talking about the lateral service feeder to the home. I've worked on live service entrance cables, and I've watched linemen splice live underground laterals. Both are high risk operations even when you know what you are doing. Seriously, do not attempt this. If you don't die, you will get busted. You know how you have a meter on your house? well the utility has a "master" meter for the grid you're on. If there is a discrepency between what the grid meter shows and what the unit meters show, they will investigate and find the cause.


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## That 5hit (May 4, 2009)

can i grow under colored lights (red and blue) would this be the same as led 
i see a lot of led setups online and they all are red and blue 7/2 could i just by a massive amount of red and blue party bulbs and have a seed to harvest grow during my research i found out that its not about the brightness of your light but the spectrum led's do a good job at forcing the red/blue light spec. onto plants could this theory work with colored lightbulbs, it would defiantly be cheaper
and why are leds so much $$ couldn't I just buy a bunch of super bright x-mass light, about 50 leds come on each string so about 7 reds 2 blue tape all the lights together or how ever just put the together so the kind of look like the one online.
would the light thats produce be comparable to led made now. i mean we are talking about 400 super bright xmas light focussed to one point in theory this could and should work?????
maybe


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## Krawhitham (May 5, 2009)

So I need to cover about 25 feet or so from my 50 amp outlet to my two 1000 watt hps lights and accesories. Is it best to run some type of power strip into the room or get long ballast and lamp cords? What equipment would you recommend?


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## LegalizeCannabisHemp (May 5, 2009)

50 amp? whats that


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## Mr.Freedom (May 5, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> It is not possible to have a circuit you can't turn off, there is a switch somewhere. It may be in the meter, there is a switch somewhere. Your questions show you are not qualified to work on a live circuit. I am not stupid enough to work on a live circuit and I have been wiring my own outlets etc. for a little over 40 years. Maybe not working on live circuit is the reason I have lived this long.lol ALWAYS TURN THE SWITCH OFF FIRST. VV


Obviously you did not fully understand the underlying question. I am sure there is a switch somewhere in this case but it's not available for me to access without climbing a pole. While I appreciate the effort understand what the question is before spewing useless advice.



Captn said:


> If I'm not mistaken, it sounds like you're talking about the lateral service feeder to the home. I've worked on live service entrance cables, and I've watched linemen splice live underground laterals. Both are high risk operations even when you know what you are doing. Seriously, do not attempt this. If you don't die, you will get busted. You know how you have a meter on your house? well the utility has a "master" meter for the grid you're on. If there is a discrepency between what the grid meter shows and what the unit meters show, they will investigate and find the cause.


Thanks captn. That is what I was getting at. I wasn't sure how big the grid was or how it was metered or if it was possible to sneak about 3 to 4 thousand watts without anyone noticing.


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## Mr.Freedom (May 5, 2009)

That 5hit said:


> can i grow under colored lights (red and blue) would this be the same as led
> i see a lot of led setups online and they all are red and blue 7/2 could i just by a massive amount of red and blue party bulbs and have a seed to harvest grow during my research i found out that its not about the brightness of your light but the spectrum led's do a good job at forcing the red/blue light spec. onto plants could this theory work with colored lightbulbs, it would defiantly be cheaper
> and why are leds so much $$ couldn't I just buy a bunch of super bright x-mass light, about 50 leds come on each string so about 7 reds 2 blue tape all the lights together or how ever just put the together so the kind of look like the one online.
> would the light thats produce be comparable to led made now. i mean we are talking about 400 super bright xmas light focussed to one point in theory this could and should work?????
> maybe


If I am not mistaken this will not work. If we are thinking of the same kind of party light the bulb itself is incandescent which is not that great for growing, if you use the cfl version of party lights you would be better than the first but you would be better off just using regular cfl's because you would get higher wattages/lumens than ones that have been colored. Go with what work's first then try an experiment.


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## Gastanker (May 5, 2009)

I'm starting a grow soon and am curious as to how much an electrician would charge for running a 220 line from my kitchen to a bedroom (30 ft) and installing a breaker box. (this is all I need right? Just running 3 lights and a couple fans)

would appreciate an estimate if anyone has one. Or let me know if this is easy enough to do myself?


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## LakeShowGrow24 (May 5, 2009)

So I got a deal on a 240v ballast I couldnt refuse, even though my garage (and garden) are wired @ 120v. I'm tryin to find out what my options are... found "step up/down" transformers online, could this be a permanent solution? Any other ideas? Thanks Brick... (ballast was cheap enough, got about $150 left to spend making it work, still be less than store bought)


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## 843prince (May 5, 2009)

i have a pretty dumb question,im not growing yet but im trying to get all the info down before i start,whas so bad about using a extension cord?i have already bought my 600 watt hps and i also have alot of flourescents for my veg and if i dont use a extension cord then idk how im gonna do it.


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## Stalemate (May 5, 2009)

Would it be possible to run a setup with 250w and 150w HPS on a 400w digital ballast?


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## Captn (May 5, 2009)

Mr.Freedom said:


> Obviously you did not fully understand the underlying question. I am sure there is a switch somewhere in this case but it's not available for me to access without climbing a pole. While I appreciate the effort understand what the question is before spewing useless advice.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks captn. That is what I was getting at. I wasn't sure how big the grid was or how it was metered or if it was possible to sneak about 3 to 4 thousand watts without anyone noticing.


I hope you don't become rude with me if I misintepret your questions. The guy is doing people a favor, lurking on these forums, answering people's questions...if you really appreciate his efforts, you sure don't express it very well.

In any case, yes, the utility will investigate a discrepancy of a few thousand watts. That extra amperage could be caused by overheating of a degraded conductor in the line. If so, they want to find it and fix it.


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## Captn (May 5, 2009)

LakeShowGrow24 said:


> So I got a deal on a 240v ballast I couldnt refuse, even though my garage (and garden) are wired @ 120v. I'm tryin to find out what my options are... found "step up/down" transformers online, could this be a permanent solution? Any other ideas? Thanks Brick... (ballast was cheap enough, got about $150 left to spend making it work, still be less than store bought)


Single phase 240v service operates with two legs, L1 and L2. 120v circuits operate off one leg, and 240v circuits operate off two legs. If you have two 120v circuits and they operate off different legs, then you could wire them to get 240v. A transformer won't help you. There is a way to turn one leg into two. I've seen the utility do this as a temporary repair when a customer had one leg blow out. I don't know how, though. In AC power, the polarity reverses 60 times a second (in the US). In 240v systems the 2 legs are 180 degrees out of phase, so when one is at negative the other is at positive. So you can, in theory and in fact, split one L1 and reverse its phase to make it L2. But again, I don't know how to do it in practice.


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## Captn (May 5, 2009)

Don't hold me to this, but I believe the device you need to do the above is called a phase rectifier. It can change the timing of phase alteration (from 60hz to something else), reverse the phases, or "flatten" alternating current to DC positive.


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## Mr.Freedom (May 5, 2009)

Captn said:


> I hope you don't become rude with me if I misintepret your questions. The guy is doing people a favor, lurking on these forums, answering people's questions...if you really appreciate his efforts, you sure don't express it very well.
> 
> In any case, yes, the utility will investigate a discrepancy of a few thousand watts. That extra amperage could be caused by overheating of a degraded conductor in the line. If so, they want to find it and fix it.


I was being a bit of a dick. Sorry to all. I got a bit annoyed with jumping straight to the you have no idea what you are doing thing (in a pretty rude way) when it was him that didn't understand but I should have taken the high road. 

You also seem like a guy that would use a little more tact when suggesting that someone was over their head (as you did). All of my experience has been on the other side of the panel and electronics.


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## VictorVIcious (May 5, 2009)

Krawhitham said:


> So I need to cover about 25 feet or so from my 50 amp outlet to my two 1000 watt hps lights and accesories. Is it best to run some type of power strip into the room or get long ballast and lamp cords? What equipment would you recommend?


A 50 amp outlet would have been to a electric stove and is 220. You would have about three options. 
1) Use it as a 220 line, in the states this would be a little expensive, 220 outlets, plugs and cords are more expensive. 
2) make the outlet a work box and split 2 110 lines from it. I did this for one of our members. Took out the dipole breaker and installed 2 20 amp single pull breakers, about $4.00 each. With duplexes, boxes and covers I think it was less than $20.00 for the material, I already had the wire. 
3) Make the 220 outlet a sub-panel, you could even make it a plug and play type thing you could take with you. Still give you room for pumps and timers, you would learn a shitload about what you can do for things like Hot Tubs etc. by doing this project.
Brick gave a good layout for a control panel for a four light set-up, I'm sure he could design one for you. VV


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## LakeShowGrow24 (May 5, 2009)

what if the ballast is designed to run @ 240v and 60 hz, does that make use with a transformer possible?


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## Mr.Freedom (May 5, 2009)

Gastanker said:


> I'm starting a grow soon and am curious as to how much an electrician would charge for running a 220 line from my kitchen to a bedroom (30 ft) and installing a breaker box. (this is all I need right? Just running 3 lights and a couple fans)
> 
> would appreciate an estimate if anyone has one. Or let me know if this is easy enough to do myself?


What type of lights are you using?
I think the electrician is going to wonder why you are wanting to run a 220 line to your bedroom. Not very common unless you have a washer or dryer in there. The term for that type of breaker box would be a sub-panel which is also not to common place in a bedroom. You can most likely pick up a residential wiring book at the local library or buy one from the local home center. Then decide if it's something you want to tackle. Bringing in outsiders is never good. So unless there is a big need for 220 it might be easier to do with 110


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## VictorVIcious (May 5, 2009)

Mr.Freedom said:


> I was being a bit of a dick. Sorry to all. I got a bit annoyed with jumping straight to the you have no idea what you are doing thing (in a pretty rude way) when it was him that didn't understand but I should have taken the high road.
> 
> You also seem like a guy that would use a little more tact when suggesting that someone was over their head (as you did). All of my experience has been on the other side of the panel and electronics.


Accepted. VV


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## bricktown73 (May 5, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> Accepted. VV


WOW!!! I can't believe this thread is still going! 

Thanks to everyone who has answerd for mekiss-ass, I have had a ton of PM's to answer in regards to this thread.


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## Captn (May 5, 2009)

LakeShowGrow24 said:


> what if the ballast is designed to run @ 240v and 60 hz, does that make use with a transformer possible?


A transformer affects voltage. Your problem isn't getting the correct voltage. The 120v circuit in your garage operates off of EITHER L1 or L2. The 240v ballast operate off of BOTH L1 and L2. You can check for another 120v ciricuit nearby that operates off the opposite leg. If yours is an attached garage, look for an outlet or light on the opposite side of the wall. If there is one, here is an easy way for a layman to check to see which circuits operate off which phase. (This is USA only, can't speak for overseas). Picture your electric panel with circuits numbered like this

1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8

1 and 2 would operate off L1, 3 and 4 operate off L2, 5 and 6 operate off L1, 7 and 8 operate off L2, and so on. So if your garage is circuit 1 and you get another 120v circuit that operates off circuit 3, then you could make the hot wire from each circuit one leg of a 240v outlet, and tie the neutrals together. As for using a phase rectifier to take L1 and make it into L1 and L2, it depends how competent you are with electricity. For an electrician it would make an interesting project.


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## Captn (May 5, 2009)

bricktown73 said:


> WOW!!! I can't believe this thread is still going!
> 
> Thanks to everyone who has answerd for mekiss-ass, I have had a ton of PM's to answer in regards to this thread.


I hope you don't mind me jumping in here, Brick, but this is one area of the forums where I can some advice. I just bought my equipment, and am building my first grow op this weekend. I've asked so many questions, some of which were probably really stupid, and everyone has been so helpful. Its nice to have an area where I can give back...makes me feel like I'm pulling my weight.


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## chunkymunkey33 (May 5, 2009)

Do plugs like the one below only come in 20AMP/125Volt, or are do they also make them 20/250?


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## MediMaryUser (May 5, 2009)

Hey whats up,would it be ok for me to get a cheap window ac unit and not have it hooked up connected to the window or any venting source and just basically put it in the area im going to grow in and turn it on without having any problems with humity?would the window ac unit overheat?

all i can afford is a cheap 5000 btu window ac unit from wall mart like this one http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8811931


does anyone see any problems in doing this?

thanks


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## Captn (May 5, 2009)

chunkymunkey33 said:


> Do plugs like the one below only come in 20AMP/125Volt, or are do they also make them 20/250?


Ya you can get a plug for 20a @ 240v. Don't know if you can get it at HomeDepot, but any electrical supply house can hook you up.


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## Captn (May 5, 2009)

Captn said:


> Ya you can get a plug for 20a @ 240v. Don't know if you can get it at HomeDepot, but any electrical supply house can hook you up.


I got into a lot of portable generators a few years ago and I the what you want is an L14-20 after that there would be a P or R designation for plug or receptical.


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## chunkymunkey33 (May 5, 2009)

Captn said:


> Ya you can get a plug for 20a @ 240v. Don't know if you can get it at HomeDepot, but any electrical supply house can hook you up.


The reason I ask is because I have an outlet like this already but am not sure if it's 125 or 250. I'm borrowing a voltmeter tomorrow from a buddy to test it but I just wanted to ask the question.


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## Captn (May 5, 2009)

the 240v won't look the same as the 120v, it has an extra prong, cause its two hots, neutral and a ground


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## VictorVIcious (May 6, 2009)

chunkymunkey33 said:


> Do plugs like the one below only come in 20AMP/125Volt, or are do they also make them 20/250?


The rating for the receptacle is on the receptacle.


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## chunkymunkey33 (May 6, 2009)

Thanks guys.


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## LakeShowGrow24 (May 6, 2009)

well, its a detached garage that has been converted to a living space and has its own two breaker panel inside (one breaker for inside and the other for outside floodlights). and while im not trying to say your wrong (obviously you know more about what were taking about than i do), ive had two other people say the transformer would work (one is an electrician). guess what im asking is, for what application would a voltage transformer work? (in case you cant tell, im pretty determined to NOT have to sell this ballast and buy another one) Thanks Cap...


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## Captn (May 6, 2009)

LakeShowGrow24 said:


> well, its a detached garage that has been converted to a living space and has its own two breaker panel inside (one breaker for inside and the other for outside floodlights). and while im not trying to say your wrong (obviously you know more about what were taking about than i do), ive had two other people say the transformer would work (one is an electrician). guess what im asking is, for what application would a voltage transformer work? (in case you cant tell, im pretty determined to NOT have to sell this ballast and buy another one) Thanks Cap...



A voltage transformer raises or lowers voltage. Your thermostat uses 18 or 24 VAC, so 120v is fed into a low voltage transformer, and 18v comes out. Utilities use high voltage transformer. Have you ever wondered how the utility can power you entire neighborhood off those skinny lines on the pole. A line can at 12000 volts can carry 100 times the amps as a line at 120v (in theory). So they run the amps down the line at very high voltage, then use a transformer to lower it to the 240v you can use at your home. Now in the US, when we speak of a 240v appliance, we generally mean one that is 2-pole and operates off 120v/120v. The only system in the US with one leg that is 240v is a high leg delta, which is a 3 phase system 240v/120v/120v. A transformer can raise 120v to 240v, but it can't make make it into 120v/120v. Now, if your ballast is a 1-pole appliance, then I've given you bad advice, and I'll feel stupid for making that assumption. But if its a 2-pole appliance, then a transformer won't help you, I'm sorry. 
I'm new to the whole growing thing, so I don't know alot about ballasts, but I was under the impression that most of the growers buying 240v ballasts are using them in their homes, and homes don't have a 240v leg, they have two 120v legs.


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## Captn (May 6, 2009)

But, dude, check and see if the panel is one leg or two. If its 2 then you have what you need right there in the garage. And single pole panels are not commonplace. Do you have a voltmeter? Open the panel and put one probe on each breaker, if you read 240v your all set. Again, this is assuming a 2-pole ballast.


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## Captn (May 6, 2009)

Actually, there is another way, but I'm not sure and would like Brick and VV to comment b4 u try it. The circuit going to the garage, if its 1-pole, should have a hot, neutral, and ground. You could go back to the main panel, take the neutral off and put it and the hot on a 2-pole breaker. Then you would have 240v and the ground would become a bare neutral. tape that ground up all the way from where it leaves the cable jacket to where it connects to the neutral bar on both ends. So what do you guys think? Wouldn't that work? I mean, I know it wouldn't be legal, and wouldn't pass an inspection, but it should work ok.


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## Captn (May 6, 2009)

MediMaryUser said:


> Hey whats up,would it be ok for me to get a cheap window ac unit and not have it hooked up connected to the window or any venting source and just basically put it in the area im going to grow in and turn it on without having any problems with humity?would the window ac unit overheat?
> 
> all i can afford is a cheap 5000 btu window ac unit from wall mart like this one http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8811931
> 
> ...



I'm not an HVAC technician, but I know that the heat energy you're drawing out of the room has to go somewhere. Where it goes is into the coolant, which is run through a radiator to dissipate the heat outside. In a window unit, that radiator is in the back of the unit, which must be outside, or at least in another room.


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## Mr.Freedom (May 6, 2009)

Captn said:


> I'm not an HVAC technician, but I know that the heat energy you're drawing out of the room has to go somewhere. Where it goes is into the coolant, which is run through a radiator to dissipate the heat outside. In a window unit, that radiator is in the back of the unit, which must be outside, or at least in another room.


Captn is right. A/C units do not really make or add cold air to a room they move heat out of it by absorbing it through then moving that heat to the exterior coil (radiator). It is possible but like cap said the back of the unit has to be isolated from the front. If you had the entire unit within the room you would have the same humidity but more heat because of the unit itself the heat it displaced is just released from the back. Once you install it with the front and back in different rooms the unit will actually act as a dehumidifier to an extent so it will help you control humidity a little better.

Some factors that will determine the extent of your problem 
1.What temp you are getting up to ?
2. How heat tolerant the strain is?
3. If you are using co2 enrichment?

Typically plants in a co2 enriched room will tolerate more heat than ones that are not. You might also be able to solve by just putting a fan on the light if the hood will adapt might get you where you need to be and will use less watts. Depending on temp and size of the room a 5000 btu a/c might not be all that effective. a few more details would help.


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## Mrlyjammn420 (May 6, 2009)

Hey brick got a few questions for you. I know people say you need to install a new circuit breaker or something like that for what i want to install. I am going to be running 4 600w ballasts, water heater, water pump, air pump, air conditioner, tds/ph/temp meter, dehumidifier, 2 6" vortext fans, 2 thermostats and 2 to 3 oscillating fans. also possibly some timers if i dont use the simple plug in. I am thinking i might have forgotten some things but what is the best way i could do this and also a SAFE way. That is my main concern SAFETY cant eat "tomatoes" if they burn down right? But if you could help me i would appreciate it!


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## chunkymunkey33 (May 7, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> The rating for the receptacle is on the receptacle.


I looked on the receptacle and it is 250. I took the face plate off yesterday to look at the wiring and it has the 2 hots connected to it but nothing on the ground screw, is this because it's grounded by being screwed into the box? Shouldn't there be more wires than this? Also, since there is only the 2 wires running to it can I hook one up to the neutral bar and use it as a neutral and the other as a hot, switch the 2 pole to a single pole 15 and put a regular recepticle on there? Is it that easy?


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## LakeShowGrow24 (May 7, 2009)

all the input is very much appreciated Cap. to be honest, im not sure if the ballast is designed to run on 1 pole or two. If anyone else does (Galaxy 1000w 240v digital ballast, mfct. date Jan 0 please chime in. I called Sun Supply today and a tech there told me theyve been running the lumatek 240v 1000w (very similar ballast, same company) on a step up/down transfomer with no problems (didnt say how long tho). Actually, he took my number down, did some research and called me back, twice. Gotta say some of the bet customer/ technical service ive ever experienced. Still, for some reason im still wary, guess im not sure if he understood the electrical setup of my garage (to be honest, not confidant I understand it well either), so I'm leaning towards putting it on craigslist and getting a SS10 or harvestpro. gonna try to find a voltmeter to borrow or have a local electrician come by. thanks again CapETan


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## Captn (May 7, 2009)

ya sry i couldn't be more help, but i'm just not that familiar with ballasts


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## [email protected] (May 8, 2009)

OK we just got our first room up and running . I am a General Contractor and have some understanding of what is going on with electricity but not total comprehension . We have a storage area and our power comes from a extension cord , to a power strip , then a splice to romex . I have wired a 2 outlet box and we are up and running . Now my question is how important is grounding ? We obviously aren't grounded now and are running fine . I guess I could go buy a grounding rod , drive it into the ground and run a wire to our outlet but is it that important ? How would I check it when I was done ? The inspectors have this little device they plug in and if it trips you are grounded . Could I do this test with my wet saw ? It has a GFI trip switch on the plug . I am thinking if I install the grounding rod , hook it up and plug in my saw and it works I am grounded .


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## Captn (May 9, 2009)

The ground is a safety feature. Electricity wants to get to ground, and it will follow the path of least resistance. The ground wire ensures that path is not through your body. In that sense, it is the most important part of an electrical system, especially since there is a lot of water in a grow room.


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## [email protected] (May 9, 2009)

So if it were your room , you would drive a grounding rod and wire it up ? Thanx for the help . And will my test with the wet saw tell me if I am grounded or not ?


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## Captn (May 9, 2009)

Ya a ground rod should do it...there is a small chance of creating a grounding loop, since you won't be connected to the service ground, but its unlikely...just drive all eight feet of rod, and if it goes in real easy, drive two...as for testing with your saw, im not sure...maybe one of the other electricians can tell you


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## by1969 (May 9, 2009)

Here's a question to the electricians. Currently I'm running 2 1000w Metal halides with the convertible ballasts for HPS. This setup is on a large closet in the garage. I had to run one one extension cord for a short distance into another circuit because I quickly found out that 1 circuit couldn't handle it. 
Now I want to run 3, preferably 4 lights in a bedroom instead of in that closet. The bedroom circuit is 15 amps, and the circuit actually goes to 2 bedrooms adjacent to each other, so I can't just run a cord underneath the house and into the other room. Above the hallway ceiling in the attic is an electrical circuit that goes to the 2 hallway lights and 2 small bathrooms. Can I tie an outlet into that for the second light?
I'm gonna go back up there and hopefully find the circuit that goes to the master bedroom. If that is easily accessible, hopefully above the hallway in the attic, I'd like to put an outlet into that also for a 3rd light. Further research required for the 4th light.
By breaker box does not have any vacant spaces. Thanks for your input.


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## Captn (May 9, 2009)

Well, you need to allow 9 amps for each 1000w 120v light, so you can do what you're describing. You'll have to be careful, though, to avoid tripping the circuit the bathrooms are on; bathrooms can use a fair amount of power with hairdryers and such. If you can access your service panel from the attic, just get yourself some tandem breakers. Those are breakers that only take half the space of a normal breaker. So replace 4 of your current breakers with tandems, and you will have 4 empty breakers. Or better yet, use tandems to make room for a 2-pole 60 amp, and run a #6 romex to a subpanel in ur growroom. Then you'll have plenty of power for your ventilation, pumps, heaters, whatever. Thats what I'm doing, though mine is only a 30 amp subpanel. In fact, I'm almost done...I'll post a picture of my electrical station in a little while. Mines all mounted on a plywood backboard, so I can take it when I move my growroom.


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## Syriuslydelyrius (May 9, 2009)

by1969 said:


> Here's a question to the electricians. Currently I'm running 2 1000w Metal halides with the convertible ballasts for HPS. This setup is on a large closet in the garage. I had to run one one extension cord for a short distance into another circuit because I quickly found out that 1 circuit couldn't handle it.
> Now I want to run 3, preferably 4 lights in a bedroom instead of in that closet. The bedroom circuit is 15 amps, and the circuit actually goes to 2 bedrooms adjacent to each other, so I can't just run a cord underneath the house and into the other room. Above the hallway ceiling in the attic is an electrical circuit that goes to the 2 hallway lights and 2 small bathrooms. Can I tie an outlet into that for the second light?
> I'm gonna go back up there and hopefully find the circuit that goes to the master bedroom. If that is easily accessible, hopefully above the hallway in the attic, I'd like to put an outlet into that also for a 3rd light. Further research required for the 4th light.
> By breaker box does not have any vacant spaces. Thanks for your input.


If your going to run multiple lamps then your going to either have to have them set up of differant breakers/seperate timers Or the other option is to run a 220 wire over there and use a high amp relay. 

You can buy an expensive light controller that you plumb that 220 line into or you could build one of your own. http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/grow-light-controller.asp

I built mine and I split that 220 line and turn it into 120 inside my box so that I can use my 120v lights. If you were to use the 220 lights you could have more lamps per breaker but a relay will do the trick. 

All of which require running wires so your going to have to figure a way to run them.


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## Captn (May 9, 2009)

Syriuslydelyrius said:


> If your going to run multiple lamps then your going to either have to have them set up of differant breakers/seperate timers Or the other option is to run a 220 wire over there and use a high amp relay.
> 
> You can buy an expensive light controller that you plumb that 220 line into or you could build one of your own. http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/grow-light-controller.asp
> 
> ...



Ya for that much stuff a feeder to a panel really is best, with the lights all running off one timer. I'm using a 40a single pole (120v) timer from home depot $45


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## by1969 (May 9, 2009)

So Captn and Syrius, thanks for the replies. Confusing but I'm learning. If I want to do the above, i'm gonna need to run a 220 line to my breaker right?


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## Captn (May 9, 2009)

so here is my electrical panel...only took me about an hour and a half...of course, i'm an electrician, it will take a layman a lot longer...the box on the left is an intermatic 40amp 120v timer feeding 2 20amp receptacles...im going to replace one receptacle on each circuit with a GFI since so much water is used in a growroom.


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## by1969 (May 9, 2009)

Captn said:


> so here is my electrical panel...only took me about an hour and a half...of course, i'm an electrician, it will take a layman a lot longer...the box on the left is an intermatic 40amp 120v timer feeding 2 20amp receptacles...im going to replace one receptacle on each circuit with a GFI since so much water is used in a growroom.


So that's in your grow room, and a 220 line from that goes to your main box? If I don't have a vacant spot on my main box, it's impossible right?


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## Captn (May 9, 2009)

by1969 said:


> So Captn and Syrius, thanks for the replies. Confusing but I'm learning. If I want to do the above, i'm gonna need to run a 220 line to my breaker right?


Ya, go to an electrical supply house, and ask for a 60amp 2-pole breaker for your make of panel. The wire you'll need is either 6/3 romex (thats a copper wire that will have 3 conductors plus a ground) OR #4 SER (aluminum wire, a little cheaper, 3 conductors plus ground). Then talk to them about a panel, get something with at least 6 breaker spaces, along with breakers. You will need a 40amp 1-pole to power the timer, but a 40a 1-pole is going to be a special order item. It may very well be cheaper to get a 40a 2-pole and just use one side of it, which will be fine. u will need a short piece, 2 or 3 ft of #8 romex to feed the timer, then u come off the timer with 2 pieces of #12 going to 2 20a receptacles. That will give u 4 receptacles, one for each light. then put 2 15a 1-pole breakers in the panel each feeding 2 or 3 15a recpt. for your other equipment. while your at the supply house get the recpt with covers and ask for 5 or 6 "handy boxes". I'm suggesting a supply house, because the guy at the counter will know what hes doing, and can help you, whereas the guy at home depot probably won't have a clue.

In your panel, try to find 4 breakers in a row all of the same amperage. at the supply house get 2 tandems, which will hold 4 circuits. U put the 4 circuits on the tandems and viola u have 2 open spaces for the 60a. THE FOLLOWING IS VERY IMPORTANT. You need to open you panel and let me know if there are any red wires, if so then i need to give u more instructions, and things get more complicated. But you can do this, and it will be safer than tying into circuits in your attic.


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## Mrlyjammn420 (May 9, 2009)

Captn said:


> so here is my electrical panel...only took me about an hour and a half...of course, i'm an electrician, it will take a layman a lot longer...the box on the left is an intermatic 40amp 120v timer feeding 2 20amp receptacles...im going to replace one receptacle on each circuit with a GFI since so much water is used in a growroom.


So what is used in your system. Its VERY clean looking and thats the way i want my grow in the making to look like. Is that whole system for your entire electric for your grow room?


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## Captn (May 9, 2009)

Mrlyjammn420 said:


> So what is used in your system. Its VERY clean looking and thats the way i want my grow in the making to look like. Is that whole system for your entire electric for your grow room?


This is the only part of my room thats complete, lol, but ya it will power everything. the timer recpt. will power three 600w lights. the other things dont use that much power. 2 inline fans, oscilating fans, air and water pumps, etc. I'll use a plug strip if i need more receptacles. 

this will be my first grow, i got all my equipment and will be building the room over the next wk or 2.


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## Mrlyjammn420 (May 9, 2009)

Captn said:


> This is the only part of my room thats complete, lol, but ya it will power everything. the timer recpt. will power three 600w lights. the other things dont use that much power. 2 inline fans, oscilating fans, air and water pumps, etc. I'll use a plug strip if i need more receptacles.
> 
> this will be my first grow, i got all my equipment and will be building the room over the next wk or 2.


your using 3 600ws and i was wondering if your set up could still handle an extra 600w because i am going to be using 4 and i am very interested in your set up because its very clean and looks pretty simple to do. (prolly not though) I would really like to know details of what you did if you didnt mind


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## Captn (May 9, 2009)

Captn said:


> Ya, go to an electrical supply house, and ask for a 60amp 2-pole breaker for your make of panel. The wire you'll need is either 6/3 romex (thats a copper wire that will have 3 conductors plus a ground) OR #4 SER (aluminum wire, a little cheaper, 3 conductors plus ground). Then talk to them about a panel, get something with at least 6 breaker spaces, along with breakers. You will need a 40amp 1-pole to power the timer, but a 40a 1-pole is going to be a special order item. It may very well be cheaper to get a 40a 2-pole and just use one side of it, which will be fine. u will need a short piece, 2 or 3 ft of #8 romex to feed the timer, then u come off the timer with 2 pieces of #12 going to 2 20a receptacles. That will give u 4 receptacles, one for each light. then put 2 15a 1-pole breakers in the panel each feeding 2 or 3 15a recpt. for your other equipment. while your at the supply house get the recpt with covers and ask for 5 or 6 "handy boxes". I'm suggesting a supply house, because the guy at the counter will know what hes doing, and can help you, whereas the guy at home depot probably won't have a clue.
> 
> In your panel, try to find 4 breakers in a row all of the same amperage. at the supply house get 2 tandems, which will hold 4 circuits. U put the 4 circuits on the tandems and viola u have 2 open spaces for the 60a. THE FOLLOWING IS VERY IMPORTANT. You need to open you panel and let me know if there are any red wires, if so then i need to give u more instructions, and things get more complicated. But you can do this, and it will be safer than tying into circuits in your attic.



You know 69 u can get the timer at the supply house as well, u want a 40amp single pole single throw. and the 4 breakers in a row i mentioned should be 15a or 20a


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## Captn (May 9, 2009)

Mrlyjammn420 said:


> your using 3 600ws and i was wondering if your set up could still handle an extra 600w because i am going to be using 4 and i am very interested in your set up because its very clean and looks pretty simple to do. (prolly not though) I would really like to know details of what you did if you didnt mind


No it won't do 4 as configured.

The box on the left (the timer) is fed by a 20amp 1-pole breaker. The timer feeds the 2 receptacles underneath it. The 3 receptacles on the right are fed by another 20amp breaker. All the wire is 12/2 romex, which is good for 25 amps, and all the receptacles are 20a/125v.

Each 600w uses 5 amps to run and a little more to start. 5x4=20 plus a little more, so no go. But don't despair. You see the wire going from the panel to the timer? Replace the 20amp with a 30a, replace that wire with a piece of 10/2 romex, then run another 12/2 from the timer to one more receptacle. Then u will be good for 2 more 600w lights. As I said in a post earlier, the timer is rated to 40amps, so its good for 7 600w. The receptacles on the right you won't have mess with. 20amps should be plenty for the additional equipment associated with a 2400w grow room. Everything is mounted on a 3/4" plywood backboard, which u can buy precut at home depot. In my next post, I will give you a material list. All of this can be purchased at home depot. all but the plywood can be had at a supply house.


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## bricktown73 (May 9, 2009)

I have had a ton of question that go like this:

I have this ballast that draws (x) amount of watts, I also have an a/c that draws (x) amount of watts, and I have 2 fans that draw (x) amount of watts...

Here is a simple equation that I use every day that can answer many of your questions.

Watts / volts = amps Here is an example

I have (4) 600 watt ballast, a 1200w a/c unit, and 2 fans that pull 300watts.
total watts= 3900watts
house voltage=120volts

So, 3900watts / 120volts = 33 amps.

Now, you can run (2) 20 amp lines to run this equiptment, and you are also right around the safty rule of thumb of only running 80% of your breaker size. 80% of 40 amps is 32 amps but this is a trade rule of thumb and you guys will be fine.

So, If you guys want to know if your 15 amp bedroom circuit can handle what you want to run, add up all your equiptment wattage and use this equation. Goodluck.


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## Captn (May 9, 2009)

what he said


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## Syriuslydelyrius (May 9, 2009)

bricktown73 said:


> I have had a ton of question that go like this:
> 
> I have this ballast that draws (x) amount of watts, I also have an a/c that draws (x) amount of watts, and I have 2 fans that draw (x) amount of watts...
> 
> ...


This is indeed good info for the novice. However this guy knew that his 15amp circuit was not going to be enough and was looking for a solution. Further more he was looking for a solution that didn't require running new wire. 

If your going to run multiple HID lamps allong with all the load of ventilation fans, water pumps or whatever else that your room use a big amount of juice then the best safest nicest way would be to run a 220 line there and build a high amp relay to controll the all the lamps with 1 timer. 

Another solution would be to run 120 wires from seperate circuit breakers to the room then put one lamp and its own seperate timer on each of these differant breakers. This still means your going to have to run wires though and this option will limit you for adding future lights. Where as if you ran a 220 line and built a relay and you could later add lighting without having to buy a new timer for each light and run a new 120v circuit and breaker for each lamp added. 

I linked a nice link about building a relay a few posts above this one. Check that out bricktown and maybe you can simplify and explain it easier for the guy. I am not a electrician by trade, my background is electronic engineering but the math is the same. I just have trouble explaining it, I had no problem following there circuit and even changing it to allow me to use my 120v lamps. I just seem to fall short trying to explain it to folks so maybe bricktown can shed some light on it all for you folks.


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## Captn (May 9, 2009)

ok, mrly, here is a material list for my electrical station...

1 100amp Square D QO Indoor panel with added ground bar (use whatever panel make you like, rated to at least 50amps)

1 Intermatice 40amp single pole single throw mechanical timer

2 20amp single pole breakers (you will want 1 20a and 1 30a)

12ft. 12/2 romex cable (you will also want 3ft. 10/2 romex)

16 1/2" romex connectors

6 handy boxes

6 20a/125v duplex receptacles (recommend 3 be GFI)

receptacle covers

2'x2'x3/4" plywood

screws to anchor it all and 1/2" staples for the romex

I think thats everything


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## by1969 (May 10, 2009)

Syriuslydelyrius said:


> This is indeed good info for the novice. However this guy knew that his 15amp circuit was not going to be enough and was looking for a solution. Further more he was looking for a solution that didn't require running new wire.
> 
> If your going to run multiple HID lamps allong with all the load of ventilation fans, water pumps or whatever else that your room use a big amount of juice then the best safest nicest way would be to run a 220 line there and build a high amp relay to controll the all the lamps with 1 timer.
> 
> ...


I want everything to be safe and up to code. It sounds like this may be a bit out of my league. If I understand correctly, installing a subpanel sounds like a good option. However, this requires an electrician and an inspection. The main box is about 50 feet from the bedroom. I don't want it to seem suspicious to the electrician. It may seem odd to him that I want to add 40 more amps to a single bedroom.


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## Captn (May 10, 2009)

it will seem odd, and i can tell you, when my crew and i are in a home, we wonder and talk about the things that seem wierd or out of place. but u can do it yourself...its not as compicated as it seems...b4 u give up, go to boarders and look for a good book, and see if you can follow the instructions.


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## Syriuslydelyrius (May 10, 2009)

by1969 said:


> I want everything to be safe and up to code. It sounds like this may be a bit out of my league. If I understand correctly, installing a subpanel sounds like a good option. However, this requires an electrician and an inspection. The main box is about 50 feet from the bedroom. I don't want it to seem suspicious to the electrician. It may seem odd to him that I want to add 40 more amps to a single bedroom.


I am certian that anyone with atleast some electrical knowledge should be able to follow the instructions on the following web page to build there own relay. http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/grow-light-controller.asp

That relay though is set up for 220 lights so you would have to split that up inside the relay box so that you can use your 120v lights. (the one on the webpage has multiple 220v sockets attached to the relay box for 220v lamps and will have to be modified for 120v lamps/sockets) So it will require a bit of wireing knowledge. 

Basicly what that circuit is and how its set up to work is the following. You add a large 220 breaker to your box this 220 wire is then ran over to your room and terminates inside your relay box. You plug your timer into a normal 120v socket and plug the 120v wire from your relay box into the timer. When the timer turns on it will switch the relay and this will then power up your light sockets built into the relay and they will be receving there power feed from that big 220 breaker and line to handle the high amp load. 

This is safe and up to code by all means and if you knowledge/skills require you to hire an electrician to add that 220v breaker and line there are plenty of excuses you could use. Here are a few, "Install this 220v circuit for me in the bedroom for the new big AC unit I am buying" or "were turning this into a craft room for my wife and she needs a 220v outlet for her kiln for her pottery hobbey" If your looking for an excuse to have someone build the entire set up including the relay I am sure with some thought you could figure some sort of BS to tell the electrician but honestly that circuit is not very complicated.


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## FullMetal22 (May 10, 2009)

Hello, awesome thread idea! veyr cool man
So my issue is i am making a pc box, and i want to use the old fans it had already in it (2003 fans Dell)
I even bought a new power supply that has easy plug-n-go wires. I was told it would work for all my fans.... But the ones that came stock with Dell computer, the plugs are such to small!! It wont directly plug into ANY of the 5-6 plugs my power supply has. I have newer fans comign n the mail, should i wait for them and hope they plug in, or is their any way i can get some help to figuring this all out?
here is my link, for pictures, thx! 
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/192410-pc-grow-box-wiring-issue.html#post2480716


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## Syriuslydelyrius (May 10, 2009)

Syriuslydelyrius said:


> I am certian that anyone with atleast some electrical knowledge should be able to follow the instructions on the following web page to build there own relay. http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/grow-light-controller.asp
> 
> That relay though is set up for 220 lights so you would have to split that up inside the relay box so that you can use your 120v lights. (the one on the webpage has multiple 220v sockets attached to the relay box for 220v lamps and will have to be modified for 120v lamps/sockets) So it will require a bit of wireing knowledge.
> 
> ...


 
Here is where I would like to have an electrician look at that circuit to explain how to change it for 120v lights instead of 220v ones. This webpage http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/grow-light-controller.asp shows a 220v 3 prong cord comeing out of the relay box. YOU CANT DO IT THAT WAY for a 120v system, instead you will need a 4 wire 220v line entering the relay box converting a 3 wire 220v circuit to a 120v one is a bad thing. I am not an electrician so I really cant explain it more than that. 

So if one of you electricians can take a moment to lay it out for him and show how to modify it for 120v lamps it would come in handy for many people.


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## Mrlyjammn420 (May 10, 2009)

Captn said:


> ok, mrly, here is a material list for my electrical station...
> 
> 1 100amp Square D QO Indoor panel with added ground bar (use whatever panel make you like, rated to at least 50amps)
> 
> ...


Your awesome! thank you so muchkiss-ass


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## Captn (May 10, 2009)

Mrlyjammn420 said:


> Your awesome! thank you so muchkiss-ass


no prob...don't forget to get the breaker and wire for the sub panel feed. a 60a breaker with 6/3 romex or #4 SER would be good...and make sure the panel u get is rated to at least the amps of the breaker you get


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## Mrlyjammn420 (May 10, 2009)

i cant seem to find romex connectors at lowes is there another name for them?


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## Mrlyjammn420 (May 11, 2009)

could i use this timer instead of the timer you used. Its a little different. heres the link http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=170427-251-HB800RCL&lpage=none


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## Captn (May 11, 2009)

clamp connector for nm cable...or just tell the guy in the electrical department that you're running romex into a panel and what connector do you use...as for the timer, I dont see a rating anywhere, but it looks pretty light, you want something rated to at least 25 amps, this is the timer I got

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=29405-251-T101RD89&lpage=none

and the same one at home depot $15 less

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100151619&N=10000003+90401+502289


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## by1969 (May 11, 2009)

Syriuslydelyrius said:


> I am certian that anyone with atleast some electrical knowledge should be able to follow the instructions on the following web page to build there own relay. http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/grow-light-controller.asp
> 
> That relay though is set up for 220 lights so you would have to split that up inside the relay box so that you can use your 120v lights. (the one on the webpage has multiple 220v sockets attached to the relay box for 220v lamps and will have to be modified for 120v lamps/sockets) So it will require a bit of wireing knowledge.
> 
> ...


Will that be enough for 4-1000w lights and a few fans? But how do I add a 220 breaker if there are no vacant spaces on my box? Are you saying that I replace the existing line with a 220? And replace that 15amp switch with a 40 or something like that?


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## Hill0046 (May 11, 2009)

Bricktown,
Thank you so much for doing this.
Here is my question.
I need a 240 outlet for a ballast.
I have an abandoned A/C breaker in my panel that is a double 40 amp that I assume is 240. If I understand correctly I need to put one hot wire on one lug, the other hot on the other lug and ground to the buss. Is this correct and thanks for the help.
Hill


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## Syriuslydelyrius (May 11, 2009)

by1969 said:


> Will that be enough for 4-1000w lights and a few fans? But how do I add a 220 breaker if there are no vacant spaces on my box? Are you saying that I replace the existing line with a 220? And replace that 15amp switch with a 40 or something like that?


If you have the right Amprage breaker/relay and the proper 220 line it will handle the current your gear is useing then your fine. So you would need a 220 breaker at 30a or whatever amperage your gear is useing. You will want to leave the existing 120v line in there to run your timer and other 120v accesories the timer will activate your relay which will supply your lights with the high current breaker and 220 line. 



bricktown73 said:


> Here is a simple equation that I use every day that can answer many of your questions.
> 
> Watts / volts = amps Here is an example
> 
> ...


 
The problem with that circuit on the website is that it is for 220v lamps, When I built mine I changed it over to run my 120v lamps. What I did was run my 4 wire 220 line into my relay box and split it into 120 circuits for my lamp. I had a electrician buddy who had to explain it to me at the time so it would be up to code but it was long ago so my memory isnt the best. 

I was just wishing that bricktown or one of these other electricians would look at that circuit and draw the schematic for it so everyone could use it.


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## bdomina (May 11, 2009)

hello,

do you know anything about rewiring a tstat in a window ac unit? it sits outside my cab and i have the cool air ducted in. also i pulled the tstat copper node down into the top cab compartment. but it still has large temp swings and i would like it a little more dialed in. I thought about trying to wire a regular tstat like for your house but those are low voltage. although the baseboard heater tstats take 120 in i know. would you know anything about either rewiring these or could you splice a heavy guage ext cord into a bboard tstat?


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## Captn (May 11, 2009)

by1969 said:


> Will that be enough for 4-1000w lights and a few fans? But how do I add a 220 breaker if there are no vacant spaces on my box? Are you saying that I replace the existing line with a 220? And replace that 15amp switch with a 40 or something like that?


There is something called a tandem breaker...tandem breakers are 120v breakers that power 2 circuits in the space normally occupied by 2 breakers...so you get 2 tandems, put 4 120v circuits on them then you will have 2 empty 120v breakers...remove those and put a 240v breaker in their place...IMPORTANT, b4 you do this u need to open your panel and let me know if there are any red wires in there...red wires often mean two 120v circuits are sharing the same neutral, which can be problematic when using tandems...


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## herer (May 11, 2009)

Hi, I was wondering if i will have any problems with the electricty. I'm gana try to run four, 40 watt fluorescent bulbs, a 150 watt hps sun system and a 30 watt fan off of one wall outlet. Do you think that this will work and be safe.


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## Captn (May 11, 2009)

herer said:


> Hi, I was wondering if i will have any problems with the electricty. I'm gana try to run four, 40 watt fluorescent bulbs, a 150 watt hps sun system and a 30 watt fan off of one wall outlet. Do you think that this will work and be safe.


yes...160+150+30=340watts 340/120volts=2.83amps

a standard receptacle circuit is 15amps


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## bricktown73 (May 12, 2009)

Captn said:


> yes...160+150+30=340watts 340/120volts=2.83amps
> 
> a standard receptacle circuit is 15amps


Ahhhhh, I love to see this equation in action.


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## bricktown73 (May 12, 2009)

Hill0046 said:


> Bricktown,
> Thank you so much for doing this.
> Here is my question.
> I need a 240 outlet for a ballast.
> ...


 You got it, but you are taking a huge risk connecting your ballast to a 40 amp breaker, you need a 2 pole 20 amp to be safe.


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## Hill0046 (May 12, 2009)

bricktown73 said:


> You got it, but you are taking a huge risk connecting your ballast to a 40 amp breaker, you need a 2 pole 20 amp to be safe.


Thank you!
I will swap the 40's out for 20's
Hill


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## stonersteve9 (May 12, 2009)

hi im new here.... and i need some basic electrical help.. I need to get my room properly grounded. I have one of thoes socket checkers and it seems to blink saying its grounded then blick to say its not properly grounded. What can i do to try and ground the circit. It appears that the lights (1 4' flourocent and one standard light socket) and about 6 sockets are all using this same circit and the wiring and recpticles are about 35 years old should i re wire everything? i dont know where to start any help would be apricated


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## chunkymunkey33 (May 12, 2009)

I had a 20A-250V outlet that was supposed to be connected to a 2 pole breaker, but was not. It was 2 single pole 20's. I took one wire out of one and put in on the neutral and left the other so that I could change the outlet to a 15-125. Do you think I'll have a problem using a 15-125 on a 20Amp breaker? Or do you think I'll be fine as long as I stay under the wattage that a 15 amp can handle?


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## nigapino (May 12, 2009)

does anyone know if most of the bathroom vent fans need some wiring done? Or can I just plug it straight into a socket?


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## Mr.Freedom (May 12, 2009)

nigapino said:


> does anyone know if most of the bathroom vent fans need some wiring done? Or can I just plug it straight into a socket?


yes you can hook up a standard bathroom fan to a cord with a plug.


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## Mr.Freedom (May 12, 2009)

bdomina said:


> hello,
> 
> do you know anything about rewiring a tstat in a window ac unit? it sits outside my cab and i have the cool air ducted in. also i pulled the tstat copper node down into the top cab compartment. but it still has large temp swings and i would like it a little more dialed in. I thought about trying to wire a regular tstat like for your house but those are low voltage. although the baseboard heater tstats take 120 in i know. would you know anything about either rewiring these or could you splice a heavy guage ext cord into a bboard tstat?


My guess is if you are using a small cabinet you are always going to have big temp swings and little control of humidity. Reason being is size of ac compared to the actual space you are cooling. Unit will turn on and off allot. I am sure it is somehow possible to rewire a tstat into it but pretty tricky unless you have a very good grasp of electronics due to issues with getting the circuit board connections right.


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## Syriuslydelyrius (May 12, 2009)

Mr.Freedom said:


> My guess is if you are using a small cabinet you are always going to have big temp swings and little control of humidity. Reason being is size of ac compared to the actual space you are cooling. Unit will turn on and off allot. I am sure it is somehow possible to rewire a tstat into it but pretty tricky unless you have a very good grasp of electronics due to issues with getting the circuit board connections right.


 
Well this is indeed doable but why when you can buy one that plugs into the wall and you plug your fan into it and set your temp and thats it. There are ones that come with photo sensors also and there are not only enviromental controls for heat but cooling and humidity as well allowing you to program set points for when to turn on various equiptment. There are cheap ones that will just do heat and there are ones that will controll everything including co2, pretty much depends on what you want and how thick your wallet is. 

To wire an home t-stat you would need to be able to produce thel voltage that the t-stat runs on, then you would need to wire a relay that the t-stats voltage can trigger and the other side of the relay would have to be able to handle 120v an amperage of your exaust fans.


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## nigapino (May 12, 2009)

Woot! Thank you. Got any recomendations on a quiet fan?


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## Captn (May 12, 2009)

chunkymunkey33 said:


> I had a 20A-250V outlet that was supposed to be connected to a 2 pole breaker, but was not. It was 2 single pole 20's. I took one wire out of one and put in on the neutral and left the other so that I could change the outlet to a 15-125. Do you think I'll have a problem using a 15-125 on a 20Amp breaker? Or do you think I'll be fine as long as I stay under the wattage that a 15 amp can handle?


What your're describing is dangerous because the circuit will be able to carry more than the receptacle...if you make a mistake in estimating the load you're putting on the circuit, a fire could result...not cool. Instead, why don't you just install a 20a/125v receptacle? They only cost a little more, and you will have another 5amps you can draw should the need arise. They're available at Home Depot and Lowes, though you may have to look carefully, or ask a clerk.


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## johnnysacoseeds (May 12, 2009)

I have an inline fan that has an arrow showing the up side, and an arrow for exhaust direction. My problem is that I really need to mount the fan upside down in order to work best with my set-up. There is no information, that I could find, online about this. There were no installation instructions in the packaging. It is a Grow Bright 4" w/filter. Do you think there is any problem with mounting this way?

https://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=52557


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## Captn (May 12, 2009)

I don't know about Grow Bright, but Can inline fans can be mounted in any position, according to the manufacturer. I don't think you will have a problem tho, since the stress forces placed on a fan are centrifugal, and the mounting position won't affect that. I mean, if you think about it, a fan is a circle, and where is the top of a circle?


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## johnnysacoseeds (May 12, 2009)

I gotcha, just wondering why they would provide the arrow if that is the case? But I'm trying it, it would be more of a pain in the ass to re-configure half the closet to make it work the other way. Thanks!


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## ian9892 (May 12, 2009)

i am making a grow room that is 4 ft tall and 3 feet wide out of plywood. This will be my first indoor grow and i have no idea what to put in there for lights. any suggestions?


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## Captn (May 12, 2009)

the more watts the better, as long as you can regulate the temperature. From what i've read on this site, for a 3x3 area you want at least 400w. But that size light in that small an area, you will definitely need ventilation. You're definately in the right place, just do some more reading and searching of the forums b4 u lay ur money down, theres a lot of good info here, and im sure it will be cheaper to take some time and do it right the first time, than rush ahead and make major mistakes. Good luck.


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## ian9892 (May 12, 2009)

yes thats what i was thinking. thanks alot!


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## Hiroshi (May 12, 2009)

i have a question. 

I am using multiple pc fans for ventalation. Was wondering to cut down on how many outlets i use is it possible to connect more that one fan to the plug. I have the fans connected to random 12v dc plugs I found laying around.


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## Captn (May 12, 2009)

ian9892 said:


> yes thats what i was thinking. thanks alot!


I wanted to add that I myself found it easier to use a book to get a general idea of what I wanted to do, then use rollitup to work out the specifics. I recommend Marijuana horticulture by Jorge Cervantes. Course, I'ma noob myself, I'm building my first grow room this weekend, wish me luck.


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## potter99945 (May 12, 2009)

thanks brick, you are a great help


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## ekoar (May 12, 2009)

here is my question. i have a 100x60foot warehouse with 480/240/120 volt. i got two rooms with 25 lights in each (1000w). Im using these Koyo Timer Relays (KT Series) to control my lighting with Relay; SSR; Zero-Switching; Cur-Rtg 25A or similar. Is it possible to take the supply wire from the 25 balasts (going to lights) and run it back into the electric pannel to relays? using the relays, switch the supply from the ballasts from room 1 to room 2 and vice versa on a 12 hour rotation? (25 ballasts-50 lights). I will be using delay timers to control the power supply going to the ballasts(no power when relays switch).


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## humble learner (May 13, 2009)

I would like to know how to do a set-up similar to the original posters, I have 5 1000hps, 2 inline fans, a/c, timers, oscilating fans. How do I make that initial set up from the thread starter in his first post?


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## thaistick007 (May 13, 2009)

New to this forum, glad to have found this thread. Very useful. I have a couple questions... 

So in my breaker box for my house, there is a 15amp servicing two bedrooms and a 20 amp that happens to be servicing two unused outside plugs. My questions is, I know you can't go increasing the total amperage, but can't I switch the 15 and the 20 so that the bedroom outlets are serviced by the 20amp and the 15 amp then gets used for the outdoor plugs? 

I don't see anything wrong with this.... just wanted to run it by someone.

Cheers
~TS


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## chunkymunkey33 (May 13, 2009)

Captn said:


> What your're describing is dangerous because the circuit will be able to carry more than the receptacle...if you make a mistake in estimating the load you're putting on the circuit, a fire could result...not cool. Instead, why don't you just install a 20a/125v receptacle? They only cost a little more, and you will have another 5amps you can draw should the need arise. They're available at Home Depot and Lowes, though you may have to look carefully, or ask a clerk.


 
I wasn't sure if that was something I could get. Thanks alot for the info Captn. By the way, I haven't used the outlet yet besides testing it with a fan so no worries. + rep for helping out.


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## chunkymunkey33 (May 13, 2009)

I just wanted to say to everyone that is receiving help in this thread, or any other thread on RIU. Please make sure that you don't just thank the person that helped you in a post, make sure you give them some rep too. If you don't know how or what it is just ask about that too. It's nice to know you're appreciated.


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## humble learner (May 13, 2009)

humble learner said:


> I would like to know how to do a set-up similar to the original posters, I have 5 1000hps, 2 inline fans, a/c, timers, oscilating fans. How do I make that initial set up from the thread starter in his first post?


 
^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## Mcgician (May 13, 2009)

ekoar said:


> here is my question. i have a 100x60foot warehouse with 480/240/120 volt. i got two rooms with 25 lights in each (1000w). Im using these Koyo Timer Relays (KT Series) to control my lighting with Relay; SSR; Zero-Switching; Cur-Rtg 25A or similar. Is it possible to take the supply wire from the 25 balasts (going to lights) and run it back into the electric pannel to relays? using the relays, switch the supply from the ballasts from room 1 to room 2 and vice versa on a 12 hour rotation? (25 ballasts-50 lights). I will be using delay timers to control the power supply going to the ballasts(no power when relays switch).


 Holy shit!!


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## Captn (May 13, 2009)

ekoar said:


> here is my question. i have a 100x60foot warehouse with 480/240/120 volt. i got two rooms with 25 lights in each (1000w). Im using these Koyo Timer Relays (KT Series) to control my lighting with Relay; SSR; Zero-Switching; Cur-Rtg 25A or similar. Is it possible to take the supply wire from the 25 balasts (going to lights) and run it back into the electric pannel to relays? using the relays, switch the supply from the ballasts from room 1 to room 2 and vice versa on a 12 hour rotation? (25 ballasts-50 lights). I will be using delay timers to control the power supply going to the ballasts(no power when relays switch).


Ya, this was suggested in one of the books I've read as a way to save money...the only think to watch out for is voltage drop. Make sure your line is under 150 ft, or increase the size of the conductor. BTW, just my opinion, but I wouldn't post on this site about a large scale commercial operation, I hope you've covered your tracks very well.


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## KaotnyKush (May 13, 2009)

How you doing BT73....Looking to purchase a bulb for my 400 w.MH...Found this site http://www.1000bulbs.com/GE-Philips-Sylvania-EYE-TCP-400-Watt-Metal-Halide-Lamps/.... Can I use any 400w. MH bulb with my Ballast....I know that some R 2 be mounted "Horizontal, Universal, Vertical" but other than that can I use any 1 ?....8"-12" any difference other than length?....Frosted, unfrosted?.....If U get a chance to view the site- wich 1 would you recomend.........Lastly (K) is a measurement of energy(heat) dispursed by bulb "Kelvins"..right,wrong?............RESPECT............

PEACE,BLESSINGS,PROSPERITY.


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## humble learner (May 13, 2009)

humble learner said:


> I would like to know how to do a set-up similar to the original posters, I have 5 1000hps, 2 inline fans, a/c, timers, oscilating fans. How do I make that initial set up from the thread starter in his first post?


 
this website is becoming increasingly useless to me..


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## Captn (May 13, 2009)

humble learner said:


> I would like to know how to do a set-up similar to the original posters, I have 5 1000hps, 2 inline fans, a/c, timers, oscilating fans. How do I make that initial set up from the thread starter in his first post?


The best person to tell you how to do this would be brick, the original poster. He obviously hasn't been on since you posted...just be patient, and nice, and I'm sure he will help you. I would tell you how I would do it, but u specifically referenced brick in your post, so I'll let him answer you.


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## 26point2 (May 13, 2009)

Man this thread is the answer to my prayers - Thanks in advance. 

I have a small industrial workshop that I just framed a Grow room in. From the panel it is about 65 feet to where I need to install the sub-panel. Here are my questions.

1. Is 6/3 NM the correct wire for the Sub-Panel?

2. How do I house the wire from the panel to the sub-panel. Walls in building are all drywalled.

a. Can I run exposed wire above certain height
b. Do I need plain wire that is not in insulated jacket and put this in conduit, if so what size/type conduit.

3. What type of panel do I buy for the Sub (is it main lug, etc...)

4. Am in California if the code is needed.

Lastly, I will be firing 4 1000W (240V), AC, Dehumidifier, and fans off of this. According to my calculations, this should be good to go.

Hope I covered all of the basics, and more importantly, hopefully you can give me the plan. Feel free to add as much details as possible


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## AudiLove (May 13, 2009)

Brick here is my question for you: I have a shed with all the wiring and outlets. 2 20 AMP breakers and 3 15 AMP breakers none of them are working and I reset all breakers in the box. I also tested the outlets with a plug in outlet tester and no juice... what is my next step. Oh yeah while adding a timer I blew the outside outlet also. Tried resetting no dice.


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## Captn (May 13, 2009)

26point2 said:


> Man this thread is the answer to my prayers - Thanks in advance.
> 
> I have a small industrial workshop that I just framed a Grow room in. From the panel it is about 65 feet to where I need to install the sub-panel. Here are my questions.
> 
> ...




1. #6 copper (whether nm or single conductors in conduit) is good for 60amps. #4 is the equivilant size in aluminum.

2. Experiended electricians will cut small work box sized holes and use 6 ft drill bits to drill through studs/joists and conceal the wire behind the sheetrock, but this may be beyond you. If so, according to the NEC (National Electric Code, I can't speak to California codes, which often exceed NEC) you can run individual conductors in rigid conduit, such as pvc schedule 40. You can fit #6 in 1" conduit and #4 in 1 1/2" conduit.

3. Any make of panel rated to at least the size of the breaker feeding it. You can feed a 100a panel with a 60a breaker, but not vice versa. Since the will be a breeaker feeding from the service (main) panel, whether you want a disconnect in the subpanel is up to you. A main lug panel, which does NOT have a disconnect, is fine.

4. As for code, if you not going to get an inspection, there are safe variations you can make from the code. For example, the reason romex (nm) has to be run inside the wall is to protect it. But romex isn't fragile; unless you cut it with a knife, or whack it with an axe, or some such, it will be fine. So if you can ensure that kids won't mess with it or a dog won't chew on it, go ahead and run some 6/3 strapped to the wall. #4 SER will do as well, both are 3 conductors plus ground.

5. I dont know what size A/C you're using, but your lights will require 20amps, 10 or 15 for your other items, so a 30 or 40 amp breaker, PLUS what u need for the A/C.

Hope this helps, and good luck.


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## Captn (May 13, 2009)

BTW, point, if you run single conductors in conduit, get THHN (copper) or XHHW or XHWN (aluminum)


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## 26point2 (May 13, 2009)

Captn said:


> BTW, point, if you run single conductors in conduit, get THHN (copper) or XHHW or XHWN (aluminum)


Captn
Thanks so much for the help. I think I will go with the single conductors in conduit, so I have just a couple more questions.

1. What ground cable do I run with the #6 copper? Is it also measured in similar numbers, i.e. #6, and is is bare copper wire?

2. When the conduit reaches the new wood construction for the Grow Room, how to I run the wire to the new box through the studs? Can I run same conduit through the studs or do I have to do something else per code?

Thanks again!


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## Captn (May 14, 2009)

26point2 said:


> Captn
> Thanks so much for the help. I think I will go with the single conductors in conduit, so I have just a couple more questions.
> 
> 1. What ground cable do I run with the #6 copper? Is it also measured in similar numbers, i.e. #6, and is is bare copper wire?
> ...


I don't have my codebook at home, but a #8 ground will be more than enough, and a #10 will probably suffice. Typically, conduit is run on the surface of the wall. 1" can be run through studs, though it is a pain in the ass. 1 1/2" is really too big for that. The other choice is to mount a junction box somewhere, run the conduit into that, and change over to romex (nm) cable. All of these options comply with NEC.


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## Captn (May 14, 2009)

26point2 said:


> Captn
> Thanks so much for the help. I think I will go with the single conductors in conduit, so I have just a couple more questions.
> 
> 1. What ground cable do I run with the #6 copper? Is it also measured in similar numbers, i.e. #6, and is is bare copper wire?
> ...


The wire should be the same insulation as the conductors, i.e., THHN conductors=THHN ground.


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## 26point2 (May 14, 2009)

Captn
Thank you so much again - installing everything tomorrow and here are my final questions. I have these instruction for the wiring - do they sound correct to you. Its a bit long - sorry.

At the existing MAIN panel's new double pole breaker connect the outgoing red and black to breaker. Connect the white AND ground to the MAIN panel's neutral buss (NOTE you can only do this at the MAIN - at the sub-panel they MUST be kept seperated).

At the new SUB panel - you will connect the incoming red and black to the main buss connections (the 2 connections going to all the breaker slot busses if this panel does not have main breaker pre-installed. The incoming neutral white will connect to the SUB panels neutral buss (you must NOT use any green bonding screws or straps that may have come with this panel...there can be NO physical connection between the white neutrals and bare or green grounds in this SUB).

Connect the incoming power ground...as well as the ground wires from all the new circuits you add. (If your panel does not have such a bar then you will need to purchase an equipment ground bar seperately made to fit your panel...and it will mount directly to the metal back of the panel - you will see factory holes in the metal for this purpose.)

In this SUB - ALL whites will go to the neutral bar...and all grounds will go to the ground bar (unlike back at the MAIN panel where the two connect to the same bar)....they MUST be kept seperated at the SUB. This is a Code requirement.


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## Captn (May 14, 2009)

That is correct...you've been given good advice.


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## Mr.Freedom (May 14, 2009)

AudiLove said:


> Brick here is my question for you: I have a shed with all the wiring and outlets. 2 20 AMP breakers and 3 15 AMP breakers none of them are working and I reset all breakers in the box. I also tested the outlets with a plug in outlet tester and no juice... what is my next step. Oh yeah while adding a timer I blew the outside outlet also. Tried resetting no dice.


I had a similar problem with one circuit I was running some pumps on. Turned out the plug I was using was in line with a GFI plug in a bathroom in a similar part of the house that my kid had shut off. If there are no GFIs in line that you can check you should get a voltage or continuity tester and start at the breaker or plug and work back the other way. If the breaker is getting power and the plug is not there there is a problem in between the two. Mainly you want to work from one end to the other in your case I would start at the breaker and work towards the plug but if something like the first plug is bad no juice will get past it if things are connected through it. Hope that helps


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## Hiroshi (May 14, 2009)

I am using multiple pc fans for ventalation. Was wondering to cut down on how many outlets i use is it possible to connect more that one fan to the plug. I have the fans connected to random 12v dc plugs I found laying around.


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## Hill0046 (May 15, 2009)

chunkymunkey33 said:


> I just wanted to say to everyone that is receiving help in this thread, or any other thread on RIU. Please make sure that you don't just thank the person that helped you in a post, make sure you give them some rep too. If you don't know how or what it is just ask about that too. It's nice to know you're appreciated.


Ya know I try to not clog up the site with questions that could be answered with a little research. Before I ask a question I read the whole thread trying not to waste peoples time with my lazyness. When I have been unable to find an answer in a thread I have had kind people help me. I see +rep noted often. I have no idea what this means, but it seems to be important. You have offered to explain this rep thing so please do so as I owe some nice people atta boys and would like to know how to pass them out and what it means.
Thanks in advance, I wish the search function for this site worked a little better but you can't have everthing.
Hill


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## bricktown73 (May 15, 2009)

chunkymunkey33 said:


> I just wanted to say to everyone that is receiving help in this thread, or any other thread on RIU. Please make sure that you don't just thank the person that helped you in a post, make sure you give them some rep too. If you don't know how or what it is just ask about that too. It's nice to know you're appreciated.


 True that! Thanks Chunky.

I want to give props to Catpn for anwsering some post for me. I am sorry to those asking me directly in this thread that I can't get too. But Captn is filling in the gaps. +rep to you my brotha.


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## bricktown73 (May 15, 2009)

humble learner said:


> this website is becoming increasingly useless to me..


PM's get right too me, sorry I didn't see your post. I seriously get like 20 PMs a day regarding Electrical, but captn is running this thread now. 



AudiLove said:


> Brick here is my question for you: I have a shed with all the wiring and outlets. 2 20 AMP breakers and 3 15 AMP breakers none of them are working and I reset all breakers in the box. I also tested the outlets with a plug in outlet tester and no juice... what is my next step. Oh yeah while adding a timer I blew the outside outlet also. Tried resetting no dice.


If your shed is out of power, its probaly a subpanel that powers it. Go to your main electrical panel and see if there is a 50-60 amp breaker in there. If there is, and its tripped, that will fix the problem. Let me know. 

And to anyone else that is annoyed with me not getting to them, like I said in my first couple post, I get a ton of questions, so PM me and I will do my best to anwser, or ask captn.


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## bricktown73 (May 15, 2009)

Captn said:


> I don't have my codebook at home, but a #8 ground will be more than enough, and a #10 will probably suffice. Typically, conduit is run on the surface of the wall. 1" can be run through studs, though it is a pain in the ass. 1 1/2" is really too big for that. The other choice is to mount a junction box somewhere, run the conduit into that, and change over to romex (nm) cable. All of these options comply with NEC.


Number 10 THHN is sufficient with number 6 wire.


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## Captn (May 15, 2009)

Hill0046 said:


> Ya know I try to not clog up the site with questions that could be answered with a little research. Before I ask a question I read the whole thread trying not to waste peoples time with my lazyness. When I have been unable to find an answer in a thread I have had kind people help me. I see +rep noted often. I have no idea what this means, but it seems to be important. You have offered to explain this rep thing so please do so as I owe some nice people atta boys and would like to know how to pass them out and what it means.
> Thanks in advance, I wish the search function for this site worked a little better but you can't have everthing.
> Hill


On the right side of all posts, just above "join date" there is a scale. Click that and you will be taken to the rep page. Make sure you leave your name in the comments section, so they know who left the rep. To see who has repped you, click "my rollitup" at the top left, and scroll down.


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## Captn (May 15, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> I am using multiple pc fans for ventalation. Was wondering to cut down on how many outlets i use is it possible to connect more that one fan to the plug. I have the fans connected to random 12v dc plugs I found laying around.


I'm sorry, but I don't know anything about pc fans or electronics...maybe one of the computer savvy users can answer this.


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## bricktown73 (May 15, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> I am using multiple pc fans for ventalation. Was wondering to cut down on how many outlets i use is it possible to connect more that one fan to the plug. I have the fans connected to random 12v dc plugs I found laying around.


Check your pc fans and write down the amperage draw. Now, as long as your 12v dc adapter can handle 2 or more fans, amperage wise, you can wire them together. Normally, a 12v adapter can only handle 1 pc fan. But, if you spend a little bit of money (like 30-60 bucks) you can get a high amperage adapter which you can wire multiple PC fans to.


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## trolldom (May 15, 2009)

Hey man, I have a quick wiring question. I have an S&P TD-125 fan, and i bought a DPDT switch for it, since well, i wanted to make a simple concept more difficult. The fan has 3 wires. (White = common) (Brown = low speed) (Black = hi speed). The toggle switch has 6 terminals. Since there are 5 wires total (pos & neg from the extention cord also) when i wire up the switch do I need to jumper the common to both the terminals associated with the black and brown wire? Thats what I'm leaning towards, but i'm no expert. thanks in advance!


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## Captn (May 15, 2009)

trolldom said:


> Hey man, I have a quick wiring question. I have an S&P TD-125 fan, and i bought a DPDT switch for it, since well, i wanted to make a simple concept more difficult. The fan has 3 wires. (White = common) (Brown = low speed) (Black = hi speed). The toggle switch has 6 terminals. Since there are 5 wires total (pos & neg from the extention cord also) when i wire up the switch do I need to jumper the common to both the terminals associated with the black and brown wire? Thats what I'm leaning towards, but i'm no expert. thanks in advance!


can you post a link to a schematic?


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## Hemp4Victory (May 17, 2009)

I just purchased a 3" PC fan and have been looking around my house for an adapter that will work with it. The pc fan reads 120V ~ 60Hz 12W which would mean it draws 0.1A. The closest to matching I can find is a 10W 120V adapter which would be 0.083333A. Can I use this adapter or will it not work because of the amperage is lower than that of the fan. Also I found other adapters that put out 0.4A and 0.7A but also didn't list the correct 12W to match the fan. Can I use either of these adapters or will the excess amps cause a problem?


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## humble learner (May 17, 2009)

For anyone that can answer my questions:

1) If I paid an electrician to install a sub panel to my breaker box, what do I need to buy to have everything ready for the electrician when he comes, as far as materials(wires, etc..)?

2) I need 2 30 amp connections, after the sub panel is installed do I have to pay the electrician to run wire to my room(from the sub panel) to have all the available outlets I need for my lights, fans, and a/c? In other words I need all the available outlets for all the amps I'll be using(coming from the sub panel).


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## Captn (May 17, 2009)

Hemp4Victory said:


> I just purchased a 3" PC fan and have been looking around my house for an adapter that will work with it. The pc fan reads 120V ~ 60Hz 12W which would mean it draws 0.1A. The closest to matching I can find is a 10W 120V adapter which would be 0.083333A. Can I use this adapter or will it not work because of the amperage is lower than that of the fan. Also I found other adapters that put out 0.4A and 0.7A but also didn't list the correct 12W to match the fan. Can I use either of these adapters or will the excess amps cause a problem?


As long as the adapter puts out the correct voltage and the load is less than the nameplate rating, its fine. Don't use the 10w, use one of the others.


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## Captn (May 17, 2009)

humble learner said:


> For anyone that can answer my questions:
> 
> 1) If I paid an electrician to install a sub panel to my breaker box, what do I need to buy to have everything ready for the electrician when he comes, as far as materials(wires, etc..)?
> 
> 2) I need 2 30 amp connections, after the sub panel is installed do I have to pay the electrician to run wire to my room(from the sub panel) to have all the available outlets I need for my lights, fans, and a/c? In other words I need all the available outlets for all the amps I'll be using(coming from the sub panel).


 Here is a material list for the electrical station pictured below. The subpanel is the box on the upper right, to the left of that is the timer. Two of the outlets are run by the timer, the other three come off the subpanel directly. The whole thing is mounted in my grow room.

For the equipment you mentioned in your earlier post, you should go with a 100amp breaker and #2 romex or #1 SER for the feed (maybe larger if your A/C is really big). Also, you will need a timer rated to at least 50 amps, or you could get two smaller ones. You will also need a few more duplex outlets with covers and handy boxes. Other than that its pretty much all the same. Good luck.

1 100amp Square D QO Indoor panel with added ground bar (use whatever panel make you like, rated to at least 50amps)

1 Intermatice 40amp single pole single throw mechanical timer

2 20amp single pole breakers (you will want 1 20a and 1 30a)

12ft. 12/2 romex cable (you will also want 3ft. 10/2 romex)

16 1/2" romex connectors

6 handy boxes

6 20a/125v duplex receptacles (recommend 3 be GFI)

receptacle covers

2'x2'x3/4" plywood

screws to anchor it all and 1/2" staples for the romex


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## humble learner (May 17, 2009)

Captn said:


> Here is a material list for the electrical station pictured below. The subpanel is the box on the upper right, to the left of that is the timer. Two of the outlets are run by the timer, the other three come off the subpanel directly. The whole thing is mounted in my grow room.
> 
> For the equipment you mentioned in your earlier post, you should go with a 100amp breaker and #2 romex or #1 SER for the feed (maybe larger if your A/C is really big). Also, you will need a timer rated to at least 50 amps, or you could get two smaller ones. You will also need a few more duplex outlets with covers and handy boxes. Other than that its pretty much all the same. Good luck.
> 
> ...


 
perfect, thank you x100 exactly what i needed to know


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## humble learner (May 17, 2009)

I was going to get a MLC-4(4 light timer), do I replace that in place of the Intermatice 40amp single pole single throw mechanical timer, or get the Intermatice 40amp single pole single throw mechanical timer and add the MLC after? 

Thanks in advance Captn.....


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## humble learner (May 17, 2009)

would you say all that stuff on your list would run about $400-$500?


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## Hemp4Victory (May 17, 2009)

Captn said:


> As long as the adapter puts out the correct voltage and the load is less than the nameplate rating, its fine. Don't use the 10w, use one of the others.


So then it sounds like I want to use the one that puts out 17W and 120V. Is the excess power anything I need to be concerned with or am I able to hook up a much weaker pc fan as well as long as I stay within the 17W that adapter is capable of?


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## VictorVIcious (May 18, 2009)

humble learner said:


> would you say all that stuff on your list would run about $400-$500?


I'm guessing it is closer to $200 than $400 for you to buy and do yourself. VV


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## Captn (May 18, 2009)

humble learner said:


> I was going to get a MLC-4(4 light timer), do I replace that in place of the Intermatice 40amp single pole single throw mechanical timer, or get the Intermatice 40amp single pole single throw mechanical timer and add the MLC after?
> 
> Thanks in advance Captn.....


Put it in place of the Intermatic, but don't run any outlets out of it, since the MLC-4 contains those. All of your duplex outlets will run off the suppanel, then plug a timer into one of those and the MLC-4 into that timer. Thats actually a neat little gadget...never seen one before, but I like it. Put a 30a/240v breaker in the subpanel, and run a piece of 10/3 romex to the MLC-4. BTW, the above list was originally posted for another user, and the items in parathesis are for him, not you.


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## Captn (May 18, 2009)

Ya, well under $200 if you don't get the Intermatic timer. Go to a supply house to get the 10/3 romex, cause Home Depot will make you buy 50' of it. I want to say something about my setup. For security reasons, I want all my grow equipment in the same room, so my ballasts will plug in there. I also paid out for Lumatek ballasts, which run cool compared to some other makes (and completely silent...I love my Lumatek ballasts). Ideally, though, the ballasts should be in a different room for temperature control. If that is what you're planning, keep that in mind when buying the 10/3.


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## Captn (May 18, 2009)

Hemp4Victory said:


> So then it sounds like I want to use the one that puts out 17W and 120V. Is the excess power anything I need to be concerned with or am I able to hook up a much weaker pc fan as well as long as I stay within the 17W that adapter is capable of?


If the adapter puts out 120 volts you can't use it with a pc fan. It has to put out the same voltage as the fan, which I believe you said was 12v. The wattage listed on the adapter is a maximum; you can't connect a device which uses more than 17 watts, but you can come in under that.


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## farmer frank (May 18, 2009)

bricktown save my house an crop pleeeez ,well i went down in my room today to turn on my 1000w light an the wires in the sun system hood melted smelled burnt so took apart an fixed so that ok but overall problem not fixed, so let me tell you what i have going on,built room in basement had pal wire it from wires that lead from breaker box ,think 20 amp , so now there is like 4 or 5 outlets ,think all to same breaker(i think )i have floor tower a/c ,tower fan ,co2 boost bucket, can fan an filter,humidifer,air pump for hydro, an 2 other water pumps for cloner, 160w 2' by 4' fls plus my 1000w evrything ist in puged to surge pro 1st then outlet,25%of that to dryer breaker to lessen load ,help plez ,ill b glad to give u more details if u anwer back i have to do lites on at 8am help if can u could save nice crop haha, thanks


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## humble learner (May 18, 2009)

Captn said:


> Put it in place of the Intermatic, but don't run any outlets out of it, since the MLC-4 contains those. All of your duplex outlets will run off the suppanel, then plug a timer into one of those and the MLC-4 into that timer. Thats actually a neat little gadget...never seen one before, but I like it. Put a 30a/240v breaker in the subpanel, and run a piece of 10/3 romex to the MLC-4. BTW, the above list was originally posted for another user, and the items in parathesis are for him, not you.


The MLC-4 plugs into a regular 120v, so I can use that original set up with no modifications and then just plug the MLC-4 into one of the duplex outlets coming from the sub panel, or the timer?

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you just described to me. Thanks again I'll leave ya some good rep.


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## Captn (May 18, 2009)

humble learner said:


> The MLC-4 plugs into a regular 120v, so I can use that original set up with no modifications and then just plug the MLC-4 into one of the duplex outlets coming from the sub panel, or the timer?
> 
> I'm not sure I understand exactly what you just described to me. Thanks again I'll leave ya some good rep.


According to this https://www.westcoasthydro.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=549&category_id=145&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=2&vmcchk=1&Itemid=2 you run #10/3 romex (thats 3 conductors plus ground) from a 30 amp 2-pole breaker in your subpanel into the MLC-4. The MLC-4 has outlets on it that you plug your lights into. The MLC-4 also has a cord with a standard 120 volt plug on it. You plug that into one of those timers that plugs into an outlet (you can get those at Home Depot, they are rated to 15 amps, I think). All that plug does is power the switching mechanism that turns the lights on and off. The MLC_4 doesn't have a built-in timer, its a switch that you plug into a timer. The power for the lights themselves comes from the 30 amp breaker. In other words the MLC-4 must be "hardwired" into your subpanel.

Now in my setup, 2 outlets ran off the timer (for my lights), and the other 3 ran directly of the subpanel (for my other equipment). You can see this if you follow the wires in the picture. In your case, the MLC-4 has the outlets for the lights built in, and the outlets for the other equipment will feed off breakers in the subpanel.

I only have 2 breakers, one 20a/120v for my lights, and one 20a/120v for my other equipment. You will need one 30a/240v for the MLC-4, probably two 20/120v for the pumps, fans, etc., and one for your a/c. You don't mention what kind of a/c, though. A window unit and most portables will plug into a standard 20/120v outlet. A central a/c will require a 240v breaker.


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## Captn (May 18, 2009)

farmer frank said:


> bricktown save my house an crop pleeeez ,well i went down in my room today to turn on my 1000w light an the wires in the sun system hood melted smelled burnt so took apart an fixed so that ok but overall problem not fixed, so let me tell you what i have going on,built room in basement had pal wire it from wires that lead from breaker box ,think 20 amp , so now there is like 4 or 5 outlets ,think all to same breaker(i think )i have floor tower a/c ,tower fan ,co2 boost bucket, can fan an filter,humidifer,air pump for hydro, an 2 other water pumps for cloner, 160w 2' by 4' fls plus my 1000w evrything ist in puged to surge pro 1st then outlet,25%of that to dryer breaker to lessen load ,help plez ,ill b glad to give u more details if u anwer back i have to do lites on at 8am help if can u could save nice crop haha, thanks


The breaker feeding your equipment isn't large enough. The light alone will use 9 amps, and the a/c will likely use more than that. upgrade that breaker to a 30amp and the wire connected to it to #10. IF YOU UPGRADE THE BREAKER, YOU MUST UPGRADE THE WIRE OR YOU WILL START A FIRE. Your other option, if money is short, is to get an extension cord, and run that a/c to another circuit. You _might_ have to run the other equipment, fans, pumps, etc., to a third circuit, but maybe not. Good luck.


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## farmer frank (May 18, 2009)

i guess i already knew the answer but i was hopeing to get away with it an u confirmed it thank you for your anwsers captn to all who need , i was planning to do just what u said an get fixed soon as i can money no prob.,but im not very good at electrical myself plus mostly current scares me ive had a volt or two get me in pass hehe but not funny ,so i would rather get someone i know rather than pro. so that could take a little while longer . like to keep MY secert ,an my smoke haha again thanks for fast response i feel better , a little


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## DankDude24 (May 19, 2009)

So I wrote you a lengthy email about my electrical work, but when I went to hit send the site told me I was not logged in. I logged in and it redirected me back to my inbox. Im not sure if it sent the email or not. In the email I said I would post a pic here for you, so here it is. If you didnt get the message let me know and i will send it again!


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## caambulance (May 19, 2009)

I just got an north star lighting HID ballast that says 460watts. It also came with two 250w mercury bulbs. 

My question is, what size hps bulb would work for this? I would like to get the 430w.

The light also says 277volts and 1.9amps. 

Thanks for the help ahead of time.


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## axisofevil (May 19, 2009)

im sorry, i am an electrician, and single phase does not mean 2 hot leads... go to the begining of the circuit. look at the panel. the panel has three wires running into it, a neutral, and 2 hots. each one of those hots are a phase, carrying 120 volts each. combined, (two phase) and you are using 240 volts. 

look at what 'phase' your circuit breaker is on, there is two phases in almost every single american home. by utilizing two phases, you have two hot leads, and both are carrying 120volts. so put two phases together, and it equals 240 volts.

wiring isnt as dangerous as some think, but when you dont know whats going on problems can arise....


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## Captn (May 19, 2009)

axisofevil said:


> im sorry, i am an electrician, and single phase does not mean 2 hot leads... go to the begining of the circuit. look at the panel. the panel has three wires running into it, a neutral, and 2 hots. each one of those hots are a phase, carrying 120 volts each. combined, (two phase) and you are using 240 volts.
> 
> look at what 'phase' your circuit breaker is on, there is two phases in almost every single american home. by utilizing two phases, you have two hot leads, and both are carrying 120volts. so put two phases together, and it equals 240 volts.
> 
> wiring isnt as dangerous as some think, but when you dont know whats going on problems can arise....


What you are referring to is the power system most widely used in US residential electric service, and is technically called "3 wire single-phase distribution" and commonly referred to as "single phase".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_phase

In common parlance, to avoid confusion with the various 3-phase systems, the 2 "hot" conductors are referred to as Leg 1 and Leg 2, or simply L1 and L2. This is as opposed to 3-phase systems which have A-phase, B-phase and C-phase.

My point with all this in my earlier post (if that is what you are referring to) was that there is no arrangement of transformers that will convert L1 into L1 and L2, as the poster had been told.


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## Captn (May 19, 2009)

caambulance said:


> I just got an north star lighting HID ballast that says 460watts. It also came with two 250w mercury bulbs.
> 
> My question is, what size hps bulb would work for this? I would like to get the 430w.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, but I'm new to growing, and I'm not that familiar with HID lighting. Perhaps Brick can take this one. Or, even better, go post this in the Indoor Growing forum, there are a lot of lighting experts there.


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## Captn (May 19, 2009)

DankDude24 said:


> So I wrote you a lengthy email about my electrical work, but when I went to hit send the site told me I was not logged in. I logged in and it redirected me back to my inbox. Im not sure if it sent the email or not. In the email I said I would post a pic here for you, so here it is. If you didnt get the message let me know and i will send it again!


I don't know if you're talking to me, but I don't have any new PMs.


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## jessebeatty23 (May 19, 2009)

hey there, on all of my lights and now my new 265 cfm fan when i touch a pointy corner particularly my light hood there is a minute shock. but only when touched with a sensitve body part (wrist, forehead) thin skin i guess? in the past i have used high wattage without a ground, wich is what i always thought was the culprit. i know very stupid but , since then ive been using the right 3 pronge grounded timers and it still happens? also could this be causing loss of power to my lights?


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## humble learner (May 19, 2009)

Captn said:


> According to this https://www.westcoasthydro.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=549&category_id=145&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=2&vmcchk=1&Itemid=2 you run #10/3 romex (thats 3 conductors plus ground) from a 30 amp 2-pole breaker in your subpanel into the MLC-4. The MLC-4 has outlets on it that you plug your lights into. The MLC-4 also has a cord with a standard 120 volt plug on it. You plug that into one of those timers that plugs into an outlet (you can get those at Home Depot, they are rated to 15 amps, I think). All that plug does is power the switching mechanism that turns the lights on and off. The MLC_4 doesn't have a built-in timer, its a switch that you plug into a timer. The power for the lights themselves comes from the 30 amp breaker. In other words the MLC-4 must be "hardwired" into your subpanel.
> 
> Now in my setup, 2 outlets ran off the timer (for my lights), and the other 3 ran directly of the subpanel (for my other equipment). You can see this if you follow the wires in the picture. In your case, the MLC-4 has the outlets for the lights built in, and the outlets for the other equipment will feed off breakers in the subpanel.
> 
> I only have 2 breakers, one 20a/120v for my lights, and one 20a/120v for my other equipment. You will need one 30a/240v for the MLC-4, probably two 20/120v for the pumps, fans, etc., and one for your a/c. You don't mention what kind of a/c, though. A window unit and most portables will plug into a standard 20/120v outlet. A central a/c will require a 240v breaker.


 

Ok I understand, the a/c is a small window unit, probably 9+ amps. Other then the lights and the A/C, all I have to run is an 8" inline fan, not sure about the amps on that one. 

One more question, how do I run this as 220 instead of 110?

Thanks again Captn.


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## Captn (May 19, 2009)

jessebeatty23 said:


> hey there, on all of my lights and now my new 265 cfm fan when i touch a pointy corner particularly my light hood there is a minute shock. but only when touched with a sensitve body part (wrist, forehead) thin skin i guess? in the past i have used high wattage without a ground, wich is what i always thought was the culprit. i know very stupid but , since then ive been using the right 3 pronge grounded timers and it still happens? also could this be causing loss of power to my lights?


If the shock is momentary, its static, if it persists, i.e., continues to shock you as long as you touch it, its AC. If AC then you've lost the ground, which probably means a loose ground connection between the receptacle and the main panel. Thoroughly check all of the ground connections back to the panel. It is possible that it is what is called a "grounding loop", which is beyond the scope of this thread. If all of the ground connections are clean and tight, you will need to call an electrician.


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## jessebeatty23 (May 19, 2009)

thank man, this is the third apartment ive moved to, and it still happens. i wouldndt really call it a shock but its definetly not statick build. but at the same time three lights are doing it? 3rd apartmet? anyways thinks for the info ill try to figure it out. i just hope im not somehow losing power coming from my light.


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## Captn (May 19, 2009)

humble learner said:


> Ok I understand, the a/c is a small window unit, probably 9+ amps. Other then the lights and the A/C, all I have to run is an 8" inline fan, not sure about the amps on that one.
> 
> One more question, how do I run this as 220 instead of 110?
> 
> Thanks again Captn.


What do you want to run as 220? The MLC-4 is already 220v. For the A/C, fan and pumps, etc., install a 20 amp single-pole (120 volt) breaker in the subpanel, and run 12/2 romex cable from that to a 20a/125v receptacle. Then plug the A/C and whatnot into that. Here is a rundown of the whole thing again. Keep in mind that though you can get by with 50 amps total, I'm recommending twice that so you can expand your operation in the future. If you choose to go with a 50 amp subpanel, the wire for the feed should be #8/3 romex (copper, 3 conducors plus ground) or #6 SER (aluminum, 3 conductors plus ground).

In your main panel, install a 100a/240v breaker. Run a #2/3 romex or #1 SER feed to a 100 amp subpanel, such as a Square D Main Lug Load Center. In that subpanel install two 20a/120v breakers and one 30a/240v breaker. From each of the 20 amp breakers run a piece of 12/2 romex (2 conductor plus ground) to two 20a/125v receptacles, for a total of 4 receptacles. From the 30 amp breaker run a piece of 10/3 romex to the MLC-4. Mount all of this, subpanel, receptacles, MLC-4, on a 2x2 piece of plywood like in my photo.

Now, plug the A/C into one of the outlets. Plug the fans, etc. into one of the other outlets. Plug all of your lights into the MLC-4. The MLC-4 will have a cord coming off it. Get a plug-in timer like this one http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100647099&N=10000003+500025+90401&marketID=90401&locStoreNum=8125 , plug it into one of the receptacles, and plug the MLC-4 into the timer. Thats it, your all done and good to go.


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## Captn (May 19, 2009)

jessebeatty23 said:


> thank man, this is the third apartment ive moved to, and it still happens. i wouldndt really call it a shock but its definetly not statick build. but at the same time three lights are doing it? 3rd apartmet? anyways thinks for the info ill try to figure it out. i just hope im not somehow losing power coming from my light.


There you can rest east, you're not losing any power.


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## humble learner (May 19, 2009)

Captn said:


> What do you want to run as 220? The MLC-4 is already 220v. For the A/C, fan and pumps, etc., install a 20 amp single-pole (120 volt) breaker in the subpanel, and run 12/2 romex cable from that to a 20a/125v receptacle. Then plug the A/C and whatnot into that. Here is a rundown of the whole thing again. Keep in mind that though you can get by with 50 amps total, I'm recommending twice that so you can expand your operation in the future. If you choose to go with a 50 amp subpanel, the wire for the feed should be #8/3 romex (copper, 3 conducors plus ground) or #6 SER (aluminum, 3 conductors plus ground).
> 
> In your main panel, install a 100a/240v breaker. Run a #2/3 romex or #1 SER feed to a 100 amp subpanel, such as a Square D Main Lug Load Center. In that subpanel install two 20a/120v breakers and one 30a/240v breaker. From each of the 20 amp breakers run a piece of 12/2 romex (2 conductor plus ground) to two 20a/125v receptacles, for a total of 4 receptacles. From the 30 amp breaker run a piece of 10/3 romex to the MLC-4. Mount all of this, subpanel, receptacles, MLC-4, on a 2x2 piece of plywood like in my photo.
> 
> Now, plug the A/C into one of the outlets. Plug the fans, etc. into one of the other outlets. Plug all of your lights into the MLC-4. The MLC-4 will have a cord coming off it. Get a plug-in timer like this one http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100647099&N=10000003+500025+90401&marketID=90401&locStoreNum=8125 , plug it into one of the receptacles, and plug the MLC-4 into the timer. Thats it, your all done and good to go.


 Nevermind on the 220 that was a dumb question considering that the device im getting is 220 and I wanted the ballast to run off that
Right on, I understand completely, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. Thats originally the direction I was going in I just wanted to make sure I had all the information right before I go through with it. I'd like to learn more about in house wiring, this is a good start.


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## VictorVIcious (May 20, 2009)

humble learner said:


> Nevermind on the 220 that was a dumb question considering that the device im getting is 220 and I wanted the ballast to run off that
> Right on, I understand completely, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. Thats originally the direction I was going in I just wanted to make sure I had all the information right before I go through with it. I'd like to learn more about in house wiring, this is a good start.


... would be to buy one of the books that are available at the big box stores. I bought one of those rare 40th edition copies for about $10.00. Covers it all. VV


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## mrduke (May 20, 2009)

do any of you know away to put a AC unit onto a timer/thermostat? my unit has adial thermostat which works pretty well dut the fan runs constant how do i have the whole unit shut of then come on to cool then off again, seems to waste alot of electricity the way it is. thanks ya'll


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## Captn (May 20, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> ... would be to buy one of the books that are available at the big box stores. I bought one of those rare 40th edition copies for about $10.00. Covers it all. VV


True that...with a well illustrated manual you'll be able to tackle most residential wiring projects.


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## Captn (May 20, 2009)

mrduke said:


> do any of you know away to put a AC unit onto a timer/thermostat? my unit has adial thermostat which works pretty well dut the fan runs constant how do i have the whole unit shut of then come on to cool then off again, seems to waste alot of electricity the way it is. thanks ya'll


I'm not promising anything, but if you post the model # I'll see if I can find a wiring schematic online.


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## ElephantRider (May 20, 2009)

OK.. here's a question for you. In NE US, how many solar panels would I need to power 12 1000 W HID lamps and what is the recommended method for getting your power company involved so that, if you skimp on self-sustaining solar, the grid is there waiting for you? Is wind a better option for this region? I know this is a difficult and somewhat vague question, but I just don't know how to go about calculating it. I'm not interested in this to avoid "the man." I just don't want coal to be burned for something like this.

A fair question is, "Why not use the sun itself, instead?" The answer: "Because they don't make 12 foot autoflowering 1/4 pound yielders yet."


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## VictorVIcious (May 20, 2009)

mrduke said:


> do any of you know away to put a AC unit onto a timer/thermostat? my unit has adial thermostat which works pretty well dut the fan runs constant how do i have the whole unit shut of then come on to cool then off again, seems to waste alot of electricity the way it is. thanks ya'll


... way, if you don't think it through. When your compressor unit shuts off it still needs air to circulate through it so it doesn't 'freeze up'. In addition the fan running keeps the ambient temperature more constant limiting hot and cold spots in the room. It has been proven that leaving your furnace fan running when the furnace is not running will save you energy, the air-conditioner is the same. VV


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## Captn (May 20, 2009)

ElephantRider said:


> OK.. here's a question for you. In NE US, how many solar panels would I need to power 12 1000 W HID lamps and what is the recommended method for getting your power company involved so that, if you skimp on self-sustaining solar, the grid is there waiting for you? Is wind a better option for this region? I know this is a difficult and somewhat vague question, but I just don't know how to go about calculating it. I'm not interested in this to avoid "the man." I just don't want coal to be burned for something like this.
> 
> A fair question is, "Why not use the sun itself, instead?" The answer: "Because they don't make 12 foot autoflowering 1/4 pound yielders yet."


I don't know much about solar, but I do know that homes that are "off the grid" use special appliances, cfls, no a/c, etc. to reduce their load so they can run off solar/wind and batteries (when the solar panels/turbine aren't producing. I would imagine the cost for what you're talking about would be prohibitive. But you can start by visiting one of the many websites offering solar, and asking them. 

You can use the sun without auto flowering strains, though. I saw a picture of a greenhouse, and the guy would cover it with a tarp as necessary to induce flowering. It was a pretty big greenhouse, too, looked to be at least 20x30.


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## KolorBlind (May 20, 2009)

Hello

I have a very simple question which should hopefully require a simple answer. I am just sick fo wasting money buying the wrong stuff so I thought Id ask before spending another penny.

I bought a 12v DC Axial fan and I am wanting to wire it up to an adapter. The fan is 12v .5A. Do I have to use an adapter with exactly 12v output? If I use a lower one (Like 10v or so) will the fan speed be slower? Also, I can use any Amp rating as long as it is more than .5A right?

From my understanding the amp rating on the adapter lets you know how many fans you can run, so if its 1000mA then I can theoretically run 2 500mA fans right?

I have a lot of 9v and 10v adapters laying around with a sufficient amperage rating, but I dont know if they will work and dont want to fry my fan. Also I need it spinning as fast as possible so if they will cause it to run slower I dont want that either.

Thanks a TON in advance, been racking my brain over this. Me and electricity just dont mesh well 

KB


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## humble learner (May 20, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> ... would be to buy one of the books that are available at the big box stores. I bought one of those rare 40th edition copies for about $10.00. Covers it all. VV


 
Very true, thanks for the advice VV, I will take a look around see what I can find.


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## Captn (May 20, 2009)

KolorBlind said:


> Hello
> 
> I have a very simple question which should hopefully require a simple answer. I am just sick fo wasting money buying the wrong stuff so I thought Id ask before spending another penny.
> 
> ...


On the amperage question, you're right. The adapter must be rated to at least the appliance, but can be more. A .5a fan can be used with a 1.5a adapter, but not the other way around.

Now, keep in mind that I don't work with DC much. That said, a drop from 12volts to 10volts represents about 17.5%. In AC power, that would be enough to drop the motor speed without causing damage. I would imagine the same with DC, but I can't say for sure. Maybe VV can weigh in here.


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## mizke (May 20, 2009)

trying to hook up a 120mm fan to a cell phone type charger. the only 2 problems are 1. idk which wire coming off the charger is positive or negative. there are 2 wires both black, one has a white line down it and the other is solid black. 2. the pc case fan does not have colored wires, they are clear. thus no way to tell which is positive or negative.

also does the mah have anything to do with runing the fans ? the fan i bought is 12v, but the charger i have from an old nokia i think. is rated for a dc output of 9v. it should just spin alittle lower correct ? 

thanks.


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## mrduke (May 20, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> ... way, if you don't think it through. When your compressor unit shuts off it still needs air to circulate through it so it doesn't 'freeze up'. In addition the fan running keeps the ambient temperature more constant limiting hot and cold spots in the room. It has been proven that leaving your furnace fan running when the furnace is not running will save you energy, the air-conditioner is the same. VV


 so VV are you saying that i should leave that AC running all the time? it only cools for about 10 min the fan runs for half hour or so and repeats


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## Mrnoprints (May 21, 2009)

Brick I just bought a Signaline 338 recycle timer and don't know how to wire it. There's a diagram but it's greek to me. It's an 8 pin circular if that's any help.


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## Mcgician (May 21, 2009)

ElephantRider said:


> OK.. here's a question for you. In NE US, how many solar panels would I need to power 12 1000 W HID lamps and what is the recommended method for getting your power company involved so that, if you skimp on self-sustaining solar, the grid is there waiting for you? Is wind a better option for this region? I know this is a difficult and somewhat vague question, but I just don't know how to go about calculating it. I'm not interested in this to avoid "the man." I just don't want coal to be burned for something like this.


 I used to install solar units. I can tell you right now, unless you've got a *SHITLOAD* of money and enough land to put all those photovoltaics, just mustering 12 kilowatts AT ALL would be a feat in itself. The Kyocera units we installed at the time were the best on the market, and at peak efficiency could theoretically put out 150 watts, at high noon with no cloud cover. As the earth rotates, obviously, you get less and less. If you assume the best, the LEAST amount of panels you could use would total 80! Not to mention, you'll lose some of that power in the transfer, and then have to convert it into AC with an inverter. I'd say 100-110 panels will get you close, but you'd better be living somewhere that gets A LOT of sun, and year round.


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## Mcgician (May 21, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> Hey chunky, you have the idea. Kinda. For a normal 110 volt circuit you would have 3 wires, black (Hot), White (Neutral), and Green (Grounding wire). To make it a 220 circuit you would add a fourth wire (Usually red) that wire would be considered hot as well.
> In order to change the 220 into 2-110 volt outlets, you need to change the dipole breaker for 2- single pole breakers. Check the manufacturer of your panel and go get the right ones at one of the big box stores, I used 20 amp breakers just to be safe and I used 12 wire instead of the normal 14 used for most household circuits.
> Remove your old wire from the dipole breaker or turn the old receptacle into a work box for the 2 circuits you want. I would have a tendency to redo it with new wire from the service panel out, it can be done using the existing wires. The black wire would be used to run one circuit and the red wire would be used as the hot for the other circuit. The white wires ( the 2 new ones and the old one) would all be tied together, they are returns and you can attach the green wires to a screw in your new work box. I just did this for one of our members, it is really as simple as abc and in this case d. Took less than an hour, we did not have to go through any walls.
> Remember when you turn off the main switch to connect the wires in the service panel, you will want a good flashlight and someone to hold it for you would be nice. VV


Wow, right on! This is exactly the question I had, and my patience in reading through so much of this thread actually paid off. If I understand things correctly, on a normal 240V line, there are 2 white return lines? If the circuit gets split into 2, 120V circuits why are there 4 white return lines in total? Are two return lines needed per each circuit due to the switch? Most normal 120V lines only use 1 white return don't they? Thanks.


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## VictorVIcious (May 21, 2009)

mrduke said:


> so VV are you saying that i should leave that AC running all the time? it only cools for about 10 min the fan runs for half hour or so and repeats


Yep, the air circulating will keep the temperature more even in the space. VV

There are directions for wiring a Computer fan in the FAQ section, I have not used one. VV


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## VictorVIcious (May 21, 2009)

Mcgician said:


> Wow, right on! This is exactly the question I had, and my patience in reading through so much of this thread actually paid off. If I understand things correctly, on a normal 240V line, there are 2 white return lines? If the circuit gets split into 2, 120V circuits why are there 4 white return lines in total? Are two return lines needed per each circuit due to the switch? Most normal 120V lines only use 1 white return don't they? Thanks.


In a 220 circuit there are four wires instead of three. Two of them, normally black and red are hot legs, one is white and is the ground, the fourth is green or bare and is the grounding wire.
In your service panel, a 220 line will have a di-pole switch, it looks like two single switches that have a bar on top of them that makes them turn on and off together. 
There are two ways you can change them to 2-110 outlets. You can do it in the service panel, the method I prefer, by removing the di-pole switch and installing 2 single pull breakers. Remove the old 220 wiring and install new, normal 12-3 wire for 20 amp circuits. Black (Hot) goes to the new breaker switch, white goes to the ground, and green goes to the grounding bar.
The other way is to split the circuit close to where you want the new lines to be. I would convert the old box to a work box by removing the recepticle. Take two pieces of 12-3 wire, hook one of them, black to black, white to white, and green to green. For the other one hook red to black, green to the two green wires you just joined and hook the white wire to the two white wires you just joined. Now install your 2 boxes for the new receptacles, black to the gold screw, white to the silver screw, and green to the green screw. 
Don't know where you picked up the extra white wires, there is only one of them coming from the service panel. When you split it you still only have one returning to the service panel, it just covers both 110 outlets, same for the green grounding wire. 
If you have not done this and you are thinking about doing it, I would recommend doing some research. First take the cover off your service panel. Be careful when you remove the last screw, hold the cover in place, have a helper if possible the first time you remove it. Now look at the wires and switches. You will be able to 'see' all of this stuff. Don't reach into it just look at it.lol Follow some of the wires you can see. If you can follow the 'circuit' you can change it. 
The breakers 'fit' in a specific way. They are put in from the outside and pushed into the center until the front part of the breaker is pushed down all the way 'connecting your switch' to the bar. 
To take one out you use a rubber handled screw driver and pry gently at the raised part on the front of the breaker. As soon as it clears the bar it is out of the circuit, it is no longer a live circuit, all that remains connected is the common wire and the grounding wire. 
Panhead posted a thread on this with pictures, please check that out. VV


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## n00bGrower (May 21, 2009)

I sent this question to Brick via PM, but I'm sure he's swamped with requests... So, I thought I'd throw it up here and see what people think.

I am making a stealth cab out of an old freezer and need to get some wiring done for the lights and the fans. The thing is totally gutted (condenser is removed, all shelving and anything else that required current is gone) and I'm ready to get the thing set up. I had a few questions about how to do it safely. 

I have done household wiring before, but this is different. I want to set up 2 pairs of CFL's on goosenecks, wired parallel (2 x 100w/23w actual on 60 w sockets) and terminated by a standard plug that is plugged into a power strip. Basically, I wanna be able to get 4 bulbs working by using only 2 outlets. Is this possible? Can it be done safely? I've only ever wired household electrical outlets, can lights, and the occasional table lamp.

Also, I will be putting in an exhaust fan using a single PC fan (12v DC 0.56A) spliced into an old router power adapter ("Class 2 Transformer" INPUT: 120V 60 Hz 15W OUTPUT: 12VDC 500mA). Will this work? Will it be safe? I'm not planning on putting an intake fan in, as I am using the drain hose in the bottom as a source for fresh air. The freezer is airtight (aside from the proposed exhaust and the drain tube), so I'm hoping the 12v PC fan will have enough power to draw air from the drain hose in an almost zero pressure environment. 

My babys are vegging out in another cab I made years ago and are almost ready to start flowering. Once they hit that point, I'll need to move them to the new cab for odor control. 

Any tips, advice, warnings would be greatly appreciated!

kiss-ass


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## mizke (May 21, 2009)

n00bGrower said:


> I sent this question to Brick via PM, but I'm sure he's swamped with requests... So, I thought I'd throw it up here and see what people think.
> 
> I am making a stealth cab out of an old freezer and need to get some wiring done for the lights and the fans. The thing is totally gutted (condenser is removed, all shelving and anything else that required current is gone) and I'm ready to get the thing set up. I had a few questions about how to do it safely.
> 
> ...


 
i am new but you are going to need an intake. i just bought a storage box from walmarts. i think its like 36x36x18, removed the shelves, thought i could get away with running 4 cfls. nope temp was around 90. so i bought a 6 doller battery opperated fan at walmarts, spliced it into a 3v nokia charger. droped the temps by about 5. i then had to splice a 120mm pc case fan into a 12v battery charger supply. then i had to cut the back out to mount the fans with the intake at the bottem, and the exhaust at the top. with 2 cfls going the temp stays at 76.5 give or take .2.. with 3 the temps go up to 80, and with 4 it hits 85..i always will only end up with 4 plants for personal.

now i have to rig up a ice box with ducted intake coiled up in it a few times then going to the intake fan. as well as finish building the carbon filter. 

as for if the fan will do for getting the air. my pc fan is rated for 60-80cfm. and it really puts out. if it is not strong enough, you can always do a dual fan system to push and pull the air.


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## cflMAN (May 21, 2009)

i got 4 dc fans,from x-box intercooler how can i hook em up


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## VictorVIcious (May 22, 2009)

cflMAN said:


> i got 4 dc fans,from x-box intercooler how can i hook em up


Use the power converter from the x-box?? It had to have one in it?? VV


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## mostasteless (May 22, 2009)

ok im starting a new grow room in a 12x8 room with a closet.ive been remodeling the room for awhile and about to put in installation and sheetrock up.im gonna be using 2 1000watt mh that can convert in hps for flowering and 1 4 foot 4 bank cfl for my mothers in the closet. i will have a intake fan that will run threw the mh to keep things cool.And also will have a exhaust fan. everything will be on timers and i will be using soil.my service panel is 100 amps for my whole house and the breaker for the room is 20 amps. i think i will need more amps to have this set up. my first question is how many amps will 1 cfl 2mh 1000watts w/ ballist a intake fan and exuast fan use. 

im spending about 2000$ on the set up thats including building materials and lights i got a couple estimates on getting a new service panel to up my amps to 200 they said it would cost about 2000$. so im looking at some other way i can up my amps. are there any other ways i can get the power into the room?how hard is it to change the service panel from a 100 amp to 200 amp? can i install another service panel that would just run 50 or so amps to the room?

__v service panel______________________________
|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx^xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSWS| 
|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxintakexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx{======}xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx^ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx||xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxMH||xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx |
|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxvxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx |
|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx{======}xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/door
|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
| mothers| 
|_cfl____|
quick look at the room
SWS=window
intake= hole in wall ill hook a intake fan to
MH= two hanging mh ill center them in the room
mothers=closet with cfl in it and 4 mothers
service panel= is right on the other side of the wall

trying to give you guys as much info as i can


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## Captn (May 22, 2009)

You don't mention how many watts of cfl, but the 2 mh will use 17 amps, imma jump out on a limb and say 5 amps for both fans. you don't need 50 amps in that room, and you don't need a service change (not for your grow room, anyway). another 20a/120v circuit will do ya. Im assuming the 20amp circuit in there is 120 volt. watts/volts=amps. so for you lights 2000/120=16.6 and always round up, so 17amps for the two mh. Add up your total wattage and divide by the voltage. Look for another circuit nearby, like in an adjoining room, or just run a new one from you service panel. good luck.


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## rambam (May 22, 2009)

I wanted to ask about overdriven fluorescents and their power consumption, which I thought might be especially (though not exclusively) interesting to you, V V, since their improved output suggest the potential to REALLY match HID outcomes, with no heat issues and potentially MORE photosynthetically usable light. 

Two 8-lamp T5HO setups (total of 16 bulbs), when overdriven 2x will put out 1.7 times their rated output. In this case that would be 16bulbs X 5000 lumens per bulb = 80,000 lumens. Multiplied by 1.7 (when overdriven by factor of 2) give you 136,000 lumens. That is on par with a 1000w HPS, which get around 140,000 lumens. 

Here is the question: Does anyone know how much wattage an overdriven bulb actually consumes?

Ex: If you overdrive an 8-bulb sunblaze that normally runs at 432 watts (8x54 watts) 2x by putting on two extra 216w ballasts, so that you have a total of four 216w ballasts, each powering just two bulbs, then the AVAILABLE power from the ballasts would be 128 watts per bulb, or 864 total watts. Now, would power consumption actually be that high? Would that be USING 864 watts of electricity? Do overdriven bulbs draw and consume ALL the wattage made available to them?


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## poo taco (May 23, 2009)

dude, your wiring is impressive, very clean job. I have a real question for you that I think is indicative of many homes around the country. I have an older home with a 100 amp newer electrical system with 220v access in the basement that a dryer will be running off of. I don't like splicing 220v outlets or doing anything that takes electrical know how for that matter. Electricity is something this cracka ass cracka don't mess with. OK...so to the point....
Right now I have a 1000w HPS with digital ballast and a 400W HM hydrofarm light. I plan on adding an extra 1000W HPS later and moving the 400 into a prospective veggie room. SO..for (2) 1000W HPS what would you do with my situation. Taking place in a basement where breaker box is......All suggestions welcome. I can afford to have a licensed electrician come over and wire a new circuit in...but If I can stay away from that scenario..That would be great as I prefer to keep very private. ALSO...keep in mind I will be running exhaust fans and possibly a dehumidifier during the summer months...

All I know is I better make something happen quick...I'm transitioning into a new home and need something set up now...or a dry spell will be coming soon...


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## Lennard (May 23, 2009)

I have a fuse box with 2) 50 amp 240 volt breakers in a breaker box that drops down to two 50 amp recepticles. I also have a real nice extension cord with the 50A type 240 plugs. Am I able to put a std 240 volt on one end of that cord to match my lumatek? I used to weld and use plasma with it.


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## beemer535 (May 23, 2009)

hey Brick. Thanks in advance for helping me NOT burn my house down. I have an older home that does not have ground wires. how do I hook up a 1000w light with three prongs to a two wire light socket?


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## redeye78 (May 23, 2009)

I posted this question over in another thread about wiring a timer and a speed control in parallel. Can you help?

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/126937-axial-wall-fans-serious-noise.html#post2532491

I'm looking to have the fan speed be on low when the lights are off...


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## Mrnoprints (May 24, 2009)

Can anyone help me. I bought a Signaline 8 pin recycle timer and don't have the slightest how to hook it up. When I bought it I thought it couldn't be very difficult, but turns out it takes some electrical wiring know how. someone please assist me so I can get my aero runnning efficiently.


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## Captn (May 24, 2009)

poo taco said:


> dude, your wiring is impressive, very clean job. I have a real question for you that I think is indicative of many homes around the country. I have an older home with a 100 amp newer electrical system with 220v access in the basement that a dryer will be running off of. I don't like splicing 220v outlets or doing anything that takes electrical know how for that matter. Electricity is something this cracka ass cracka don't mess with. OK...so to the point....
> Right now I have a 1000w HPS with digital ballast and a 400W HM hydrofarm light. I plan on adding an extra 1000W HPS later and moving the 400 into a prospective veggie room. SO..for (2) 1000W HPS what would you do with my situation. Taking place in a basement where breaker box is......All suggestions welcome. I can afford to have a licensed electrician come over and wire a new circuit in...but If I can stay away from that scenario..That would be great as I prefer to keep very private. ALSO...keep in mind I will be running exhaust fans and possibly a dehumidifier during the summer months...
> 
> All I know is I better make something happen quick...I'm transitioning into a new home and need something set up now...or a dry spell will be coming soon...


For what you mention, two 1000 HPS plus various support equipment (pumps, blower, etc.) this is the minimum. Install two 20a/120v breakers in the main panel. From each breaker run one 12/2 romex cable to one standard and one GFI 20a/120v receptacles, for a total of four. On one circuit, use plug in timers in each outlet and plug you lights into those. Then plug everything else into the other circuit. There are a lot of ways to do what you want, this is probably the easiest and cheapest. Good luck.


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## Captn (May 24, 2009)

Lennard said:


> I have a fuse box with 2) 50 amp 240 volt breakers in a breaker box that drops down to two 50 amp recepticles. I also have a real nice extension cord with the 50A type 240 plugs. Am I able to put a std 240 volt on one end of that cord to match my lumatek? I used to weld and use plasma with it.


Ya, that'll be fine.


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## loadman (May 24, 2009)

I have a newer home with good wiring. Question I have is this: can I swap out a 15 amp breaker for a 20 amp? Do I need different wiring for this? Only my stuff will be on the circuit. About 1400 watts. Thx for the help!


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## Captn (May 24, 2009)

loadman said:


> I have a newer home with good wiring. Question I have is this: can I swap out a 15 amp breaker for a 20 amp? Do I need different wiring for this? Only my stuff will be on the circuit. About 1400 watts. Thx for the help!


If you upgrade the breaker you will have to upgrade the wire, from 14/2 to 12/2, or a fire can result. But you don't need to upgrade the breaker. 1400w will draw less than 12 amps.


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## loadman (May 24, 2009)

Captn said:


> If you upgrade the breaker you will have to upgrade the wire, from 14/2 to 12/2, or a fire can result. But you don't need to upgrade the breaker. 1400w will draw less than 12 amps.


What if I was drawing say 13-14 amps....still ok?


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## Captn (May 24, 2009)

yes, sir. .


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## Lennard (May 24, 2009)

Thanks captn!


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## bam bam (May 25, 2009)

Hey I want to drill some small holes in my wall. Is there a way to find out if there are any electrical wires behind the wall? I dont want to buy that device that finds eletrical wiring behind walls. The holes Iam drilling will be about 5 feet above my floor, so nothing down low and close to wall outlets.


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## bassmagicks (May 25, 2009)

Hey I'm a total newb, both to growing and electronics, and I just noticed a potentially big problem. I'm growing in my attic, and currently I have everything (water pump, air pump, timer w/3 way adapter going to 2 t5s and 2 cfls) plugged in to one surge protector. Ordinarily I wouldn't be too worried at this, but then i traced back the extension going to the surge protector to find it plugged into a light socket to polarized outlet adapter with a ground to ungrounded adapter! what a ghetto rig. there doesn't appear to be any actual outlets up there either. Anyways, I'd like to make this safer, to not only eliminate fucking up my equipment, but also so my house doesn't burn down! any advice?


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## loadman (May 25, 2009)

Lennard said:


> Thanks captn!


Ok just wanted to make certain. Thx captn


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## VictorVIcious (May 25, 2009)

bam bam said:


> Hey I want to drill some small holes in my wall. Is there a way to find out if there are any electrical wires behind the wall? I dont want to buy that device that finds eletrical wiring behind walls. The holes Iam drilling will be about 5 feet above my floor, so nothing down low and close to wall outlets.


...well... normally there wouldn't be any wires running up the wall unless it goes up to a light fixture or switch and then it would be stapled to the stud. Soo.. if you make sure you are between studs you should be fine. This assumes a small hole is like 1/4" not two feet. I prefer to use a depth gauge the thickness of the wall material, cut out an 'exploratory' hole and look before getting in to the space between the walls. If you like, you can view how I did this when I cut out the holes for my lights air cooling system here https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/187391-diy-venting-grow-room-lights.html Yes I did run into wires in the wall, some one that is not an electrician put them there to install a gfi circuit in my garage so I can't fault myself too much, I am glad I was careful. VV


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## efan20 (May 25, 2009)

I have a squirell cage fan that I got out of a dead stove. It has a 2 cord power connection with a little plastic thing connecting the end of them, looks like a plug for the stove or something. I am trying to wire a plug on it so I can attach it to a carbon filter.


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## VictorVIcious (May 25, 2009)

bassmagicks said:


> Hey I'm a total newb, both to growing and electronics, and I just noticed a potentially big problem. I'm growing in my attic, and currently I have everything (water pump, air pump, timer w/3 way adapter going to 2 t5s and 2 cfls) plugged in to one surge protector. Ordinarily I wouldn't be too worried at this, but then i traced back the extension going to the surge protector to find it plugged into a light socket to polarized outlet adapter with a ground to ungrounded adapter! what a ghetto rig. there doesn't appear to be any actual outlets up there either. Anyways, I'd like to make this safer, to not only eliminate fucking up my equipment, but also so my house doesn't burn down! any advice?


Well... if I understand you correctly it should be fairly easy to make this better. I assume you are talking about a porcelain light socket. Turn off the circuit and remove the two screw that hold the light socket in place, gently pull it out so you can see how it is attached, I bet there are at least two wires there, and black and one white, maybe your lucky and there is a green one there too. You could install a receptacle instead of the light socket or make this a 'work box' and install new wire from there to wherever it is convenient. 
Attic grows are simple to run wiring to if your electric service panel is one floor below, a lot harder if the service is in the basement. VV


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## mossman59 (May 25, 2009)

what are the advantages to setting up a 240 30amp conversion? What is the advantage of running high voltage?


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## VictorVIcious (May 26, 2009)

mossman59 said:


> what are the advantages to setting up a 240 30amp conversion? What is the advantage of running high voltage?


There is not any advantage to running 220 instead of 110 as far as your energy bill is concerned if you are in the US. Running the 240 30 amp circuit is being suggested as a way to put enough power to a room to install a sub panel instead of running separate 110 circuits from the service panel. VV


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## bassmagicks (May 26, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> Well... if I understand you correctly it should be fairly easy to make this better. I assume you are talking about a porcelain light socket. Turn off the circuit and remove the two screw that hold the light socket in place, gently pull it out so you can see how it is attached, I bet there are at least two wires there, and black and one white, maybe your lucky and there is a green one there too. You could install a receptacle instead of the light socket or make this a 'work box' and install new wire from there to wherever it is convenient.
> Attic grows are simple to run wiring to if your electric service panel is one floor below, a lot harder if the service is in the basement. VV


Hmm, that sounds about right. I took a couple quick pictures just to help clarify. Oh, and my circuit panel is 2 floors below, in the garage  
Am I in great danger of fire if I don't fix this soon, or can it wait until I'm at home depot next, probably within a week or two?


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## VictorVIcious (May 26, 2009)

If you are not using that light bulb, you will probably be alright. We are talking about less than $10.00 to change what is there now. Having the service panel two floors below in the garage would be one of those cases where you may want to put a small service or sub panel in the attic. You would be able to buy wire that is weather proof. or at least approved for 'wet' locations like barns etc. Type NMC or if that is not available type uf will work, it will be more expensive, its approved for underground use, not just wet location. Painted the same color as the house, no one would even notice. VV


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## bankia (May 27, 2009)

hey bricktown 73,got a quick question. this is my first grow and it is hydro. my first month i was using 120 wat led and a 125 watt cfl.my electric bill was 29.88 the first grow and now i am budding with a 400 watt hps.i am in a 2 br apartment with a grow tent and a carbon filter and for this month my electric bill is 66.02,the first month it shows 191 kwhand 2nd month it shows 947 kwh.is this normal and should this raise any bad attention??


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## largebudda (May 27, 2009)

Electrical assistance. 

I am adding batteries in an array to assist with the UPS that I have attached to my system. The one thing I have not been able to rap my brain around and it might just be in front of me and I just dont see it!!!! By using OHMS Law is it logical to be able to calculate Amp hours as well as Watt Hours, or is just the amount of hours a device is in use and the amount of power it consumes?

eg: a device is using 100watts and runs for 12 hours = 1200 watt hours?
a device is using 100amp and runs for 12 hours = 1200 amp hours?

I can figure out all the volatges/watts/amps/joules But the basics of understand how much power is pulled over X number of hours is kind of making me feel a bit dumb founded.  I would like to have a battery run time of 2days to ensure black outs or brown outs wont damage the ladies!!! 


System in place
2 - 600Watt HPS
1 - 250 MH (Mother)
1- (2bulb) Grolux 40watt (80watt total)
1- Hunter Fan
1- pond pump
1- bubbler
1-oscillating fan
3-timers


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## nathenking (May 30, 2009)

Bump this thread!!!! What a great read!!!


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## Marvin (May 30, 2009)

quick question. i live in a really old building (1912 when it was built but very well maintained) my plans involve running a 2 1000w and all the usual pumps, timers, fans, etc for a standard grow. now my question is: how concerned would you be about the old wiring handling that kind of juice? more or less i just want to make sure im not gonna burn everyone alive in my apartment building.


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## VictorVIcious (May 31, 2009)

Marvin said:


> quick question. i live in a really old building (1912 when it was built but very well maintained) my plans involve running a 2 1000w and all the usual pumps, timers, fans, etc for a standard grow. now my question is: how concerned would you be about the old wiring handling that kind of juice? more or less i just want to make sure im not gonna burn everyone alive in my apartment building.


More than likely it is not all old wiring, they would have upgraded. If you pay your electric you have a panel that services your apartment. You might want to look in that panel and see how many circuits there are before deciding. VV


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## Fallen Buckshot (May 31, 2009)

also a way to know and check if you have a fuse box or breaker box .. if fuses you might want to have them upgrade your wiring


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## VictorVIcious (May 31, 2009)

offthesidwalk


> I want to move my ballasts out of my room to help control the temps.
> To do this I need an extension cord.
> Is it wise to plug two ballasts into a single extension cord?
> Should they each get their own cord, or are they a bad idea all together?


I think you know the answer to this, it is never a good idea to plug 2 major draws into one extension cord, if we knew what watt of ballast we could give a better answer. All hid ballast that are not hard wired use 'extension cords' they just put them in a work box for the connection instead of using plugs. The idea of keeping the ballast in a separate room is good make sure you use cords that have the necessary amp and temperature ratings. A good way to make sure is to use the extension cords the sell at hydro shops that match the proprietary plugs some of them use, usually available in 15' and 25' lengths. You would use them between the ballast and the hood. 



> Also on an unrelated question.
> Are charcoal filters reversible?
> I want to put my filter in my attic to reduce clutter, plug my lamp exhaust into this, and won't have to hang the bastard.
> Any thoughts?


Reversible? no, you have to pull air through the open end. The air cooling system for the light needs to be a separate system. It does not require an expensive CanFan for the light, I bought the one I use to air cool 3-1000 watt hid lights at Menards for less than $30.00. you do not have to hang the carbon filter, you can set it on the floor, it just means you will have more ducting and have to get a bigger fan, there are no short cuts. VV


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## growshower (May 31, 2009)

hey man, your electrical set up is impressive, can you give me the specs for just the breaker


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## Peter421 (Jun 2, 2009)

What would I need to run 2-4 1000watt ballasts? The only thing I know is I can't plug them all into one wall socket.


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## nathenking (Jun 2, 2009)

peter 421... add up all your watts that will be used and divide by 110 watts/volts= amps. This will tell you how many amps you will need to run into your grow room....
If you read this thread you will no alot more about electricity when you are finished... It takes time but very good info... 
Im sure brick or capt will help you.... just be patient..
nk


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 2, 2009)

Peter421 said:


> What would I need to run 2-4 1000watt ballasts? The only thing I know is I can't plug them all into one wall socket.


You can easily figure these thing by using the formula volts x amps = watts. As long as you know 2 of the three numbers you can figure the other one, so lets see what we do know. We know its 1000 watts and we know its 110 volts, right? So we plug in those numbers and divide both sides by volts, leaving us with the new equation, amps= watts divided by volts. 1000/110 is about 9 amps per light.
When I was running the wiring for my room, I used 12 wire and 20 amp receptacle and breakers. The suggestion is that you never run more than 80% of capacity so around 16 amps. Not many individual items, other than 1000 watt lights are going to run at 7 amps so I can plug a fan or a pump without having another circuit and still be safe. I figure the extra protection of the 20 amp circuit cost about $4.00. I haven't had a breaker blow yet, guess I done ok with that. 
If it were me doing this I would run a circuit for each big light I intended to use and a couple of utility lines as well one of those would be a gfc. VV


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## largebudda (Jun 2, 2009)

is there anyone here that can tell how to figure out amp hours from watt hours? look at page 38 I posted there. I need to add batteries incase of storms


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## BasementGuerrilla (Jun 3, 2009)

I have an aeroflo 60. It uses an inline TNC 1/4HP pump that goes on the outside of the rez. I hooked the system up for the first time yesterday and it was sending electrical current through the water into my system. Everytime I touched the water I would get a small zap. I unplugged the pump and did some troubleshooting for a few hours on the phone with GH and when I plugged it in again a couple hours later it worked fine. WTF?

My guess' so far are:
1)The cheap surge protector is junk
2)The pump's electric plug wasn't balls deep into the surge protector OR the surge protector plug wasn't balls deep into the outlet.
3)One of the spray lines lightly misted the outlet/surge protector with H20.
4)Defective pump
5)My house is an old piece of shit with poor electrical wiring and sometimes it's grounded and sometimes it's not. 

What do you think? I hope I don't electricute my plants...


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## FunKyGonZ (Jun 3, 2009)

I set up a 400 watt ballast housed in a metal mailbox. I wired it and it turned on fine with a very quiet hum. Once i rigged everything up in my box and tried firing it up it just hummed and didnt fire the bulb, weird thing is that when i unplug it the bulb lights up for a second. any idea? Thanks


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## largebudda (Jun 3, 2009)

BasementGuerrilla said:


> I have an aeroflo 60. It uses an inline TNC 1/4HP pump that goes on the outside of the rez. I hooked the system up for the first time yesterday and it was sending electrical current through the water into my system. Everytime I touched the water I would get a small zap. I unplugged the pump and did some troubleshooting for a few hours on the phone with GH and when I plugged it in again a couple hours later it worked fine. WTF?
> 
> My guess' so far are:
> 1)The cheap surge protector is junk
> ...





When you hooked everything up was anything wet; res, floor, lines? Was there a little standing water ontop of the pump?


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## FunKyGonZ (Jun 3, 2009)

Ok so its firing back up however one half of the ballast is smoking i believe its the core


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## BasementGuerrilla (Jun 3, 2009)

largebudda said:


> When you hooked everything up was anything wet; res, floor, lines? Was there a little standing water ontop of the pump?


Yes. You think that's it? I got it set up, and then turned it on and water went everywhere. I had to go get a roll of teflon and do literally every single thing that was threaded on the entire system. I had like 12 leaks the first time I fired up the pump. I told this to GH but they said they have one they keep outside even when it rains, so the pump is fairly water resistant. But, yeah that's what I was thinking too actually. WTF?


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## itsgrowinglikeaweed (Jun 4, 2009)

Wow this is awesome! Can I use a household dimmer switch, like the one that controls the speed of my ceiling fan, to control the speed of my 6in. centrifugal fan?
I need to slow it down a bit. Its too loud and too powerful. Anyone? Ideas?


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## MrGreenTsi420 (Jun 4, 2009)

thanks and will be here alot! thanks for all the help!


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## Giant (Jun 4, 2009)

Wow, thanks for this thread! I am getting ready to start my grow, and have some serious concerns about my electrical situation. I just bought a house that is fairly old, it was built in 1954 and still has the original wiring as far as I can tell. None of it is grounded, although most outlets have been switched to the three-prong type. I have two 15 amp breakers and two 20 amp breakers in my service panel, but the meter is only rated for 15 amps (240 volts). I figure at best that gives me 30 amps at 120 volts, while my breakers will allow for up to 70 amps, theoretically. Im not an electrician but that sounds really bad to me. 

I have basically two options in my mind. I can replace the service panel, breakers, meter, and the wiring in my walls to be up to code. This will cost me at the minimum $1500, if I do most of the work myself. This is basically my entire grow budget. Option two would be to say fuck it, I just try to play it safe. I know with a 600w lamp and fans I should only be using about 7 amps; roughly half of a 15amp breaker. If I make sure to not plug anything else into that breaker I should be fine, right? I can also tap in a grounding rod, and at least ground the outlet in the closet I want to use. Would that buy me anything?


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 4, 2009)

Giant


> Wow, thanks for this thread! I am getting ready to start my grow, and have some serious concerns about my electrical situation. I just bought a house that is fairly old, it was built in 1954 and still has the original wiring as far as I can tell. None of it is grounded, although most outlets have been switched to the three-prong type. I have two 15 amp breakers and two 20 amp breakers in my service panel, but the meter is only rated for 15 amps (240 volts).


Uhh....hmmmm the meter can not be rated 15 amps? What is the number on the top switch, your Main switch in the service panel and 1954 isn't that old. I am older than your house.lol You mean there are only four breakers in your service panel?? If so this may not be your service panel?



> I figure at best that gives me 30 amps at 120 volts, while my breakers will allow for up to 70 amps, theoretically. Im not an electrician but that sounds really bad to me.
> 
> I have basically two options in my mind. I can replace the service panel, breakers, meter, and the wiring in my walls to be up to code. This will cost me at the minimum $1500, if I do most of the work myself. This is basically my entire grow budget. Option two would be to say fuck it, I just try to play it safe. I know with a 600w lamp and fans I should only be using about 7 amps; roughly half of a 15amp breaker. If I make sure to not plug anything else into that breaker I should be fine, right? I can also tap in a grounding rod, and at least ground the outlet in the closet I want to use. Would that buy me anything?


Ok, I am not an electrician, as a homeowner, I would not have any option if what you are saying is accurate, I think there may be something missing here. 100amp service is not enough, and the difference between new 200amp service and 100 amp service in my area was less than $200.00. I installed the 200amp 40 space box and run my house as a subpanel with 100amps of service. What your describing is not likely, I think what your looking at may be a sub panel or you watch tv by candle light. Maybe a Picture?? VV


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## jtreezy420 (Jun 4, 2009)

nybody out there installed this type of ballast? if so please respond with some help..


first q: my breaker is 220v, not 240v, although ive heard this isnt an issue...

2nd q: ill b using the dryer outlet to run my dual, however the outlet is a three pronged with an L. therefore i was thinkin of hookin a dryer pony up to a light controller (any suggestions) then hookin ballast into controller.. does this sound right?

3rd q: since the ballast will b in the laundry, i will need to run an ext cord for the reflectors (daystar ac). is this possible? do they make the 240v ext cord for this application?

4th and final q: the instructions that came with the dual state that u must NOT wire a neutral wire to the ballast. so how excatly do i go about wiring the dryer pony into the light controller?


thanks a million to anyone who can help...


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## Giant (Jun 4, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> Giant
> 
> 
> Uhh....hmmmm the meter can not be rated 15 amps? What is the number on the top switch, your Main switch in the service panel and 1954 isn't that old. I am older than your house.lol You mean there are only four breakers in your service panel?? If so this may not be your service panel?
> ...


Pictures I got, but Ill warn you that its not pretty... Yes, I am certain that this is the only breaker box. Im pretty sure that this was redone at some point and was never up to code in this configuration.. 

This is the best pic I have of the meter with me.. I cant read the number, but it clearly states 15amp 240volt. 






Here are all four lovely breakers. Its hard to read, but the blues are marked with 15, and the reds say 20.






I will say this.. I cannot run my microwave and toaster oven at the same time without blowing the breaker for the kitchen!


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## ArrOgNt RocKstAR (Jun 4, 2009)

why dont you just get a 25 foot, 12- guage extension cord for the microwave, and put it on a seperate line. 

Im not sure what your trying to wire, but make sure to not put more then 12 amps max! on every outlet, not even the 20 amp outlets. 
Thats the safest way to go. 
Most fires are caused by 20 amps being run on a 20 amp breaker.

The wires in your walls are prob. 14 guage, not even close to being able to handle 20 amps. 
Unless you paid a Master Electrician to install it or had it inspected to make sure its right, I would not trust that there is 12 guage wiring in the walls of those 20 amp outlets.

I am a service man and from what iv seen, you can not trust work that has been done, because you never know if the last electrician that installed everything, knew what he was doing or not.


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## Giant (Jun 4, 2009)

Sounds good.. I figured my entire grow shouldnt use more than about 7amps total, that should be no problem.. I hope..


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## TaxiDriver13 (Jun 4, 2009)

I am having an issue with my 1000 watt HPS Sun System by Sunlight Supply ballast. 
For some reason it will not work when I install a 1000 watt hps bulb...It works fine with my 1000 watt Metal Halide conversion bulb. 
I am thinking that maybe the ignitor is shot? Do MH conversion bulbs need an ignitor??? 
It has me stumped and it is time to flower. I switched my system to 12/12 with the conversion bulb as a temp. fix, but know that I need the HPS. I even bought and tried an new 1000 watt HPS bulb...WTF...Help please.


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## groputillor (Jun 5, 2009)

Hey I posted this somewhere else but you seem like you know a lot. Maybe you can help. Thanks
So this is my first project. I was working on plans for a box to put in the garage, which seemed like an ideal place until I realized that there is no vent. Shit. Well I have a room air conditioner that I don't use, and - forgive me if this is a stupid idea - could I just place it in the garage with the box and connect it to the intake fan on the bottom of the box? The garage is on a ground floor and gets very little sun. It's not all that hot now but I'm worried the summer is gonna change that. The box will be 2.5 by 4.5 by 6 feet and I won't be using anything hotter than a 600 watt hps. Will the A/C even help without drawing air from outside the room? Do I even need it or will having an intake and outtake fan in there be enough? The garage will open and shut a few times a day so some fresh air comes in. My alternative locations are small and more troublesome. I don't wanna just give up on this. I'm stoked and wanna make this work. Please help.


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## dowjones618 (Jun 5, 2009)

Hello everyone. I am new to the forum and I need some advice to run 1 50 amp extension cord to one of my room and 1 30 amp extension cord to my other room.

The first room:
Since I have an electric stove and I don't plan to use it. I am thinking about plugging the 20-30 feet 50 amp extension cord in the electric stove outlet. I check the breaker and it does say 50 amp. Then, I going to plug a 50 amp timer box in the extension cord.

The second room:
Basically the same setup except this is going to be a 30 amp extension cord from the washer and dryer, don't need to use it, and plug it in a 30 amp timer box.

Here is a picture of the 50 amp timer box: http://www.garden.com/item/50-amp-ti...digital-timer/

30 amp timer box:
http://www.horticulturesource.com/pr...oducts_id=1969

50 amp extension cord:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c...1&kwtid=210236

30 amp extension cord:
http://www.rvsupplywarehouse.com/pro...d/300/pid/2170

My questions are: Is it safe? Is this setup doable? Does the extension cord have to be in a straight line or can I mount it on every ceiling wall corner running it to room 1 and 2. Please give me some advices. Thanks!


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 5, 2009)

Giant said:


> Pictures I got, but Ill warn you that its not pretty... Yes, I am certain that this is the only breaker box. Im pretty sure that this was redone at some point and was never up to code in this configuration..
> 
> This is the best pic I have of the meter with me.. I cant read the number, but it clearly states 15amp 240volt.
> 
> ...


Yep, that needs to be fixed and new service is the best option. Mine was similar, it was 60 amp service, if the dryer was running and we tried to use the Microwave it would trip the main and that was before I started growing. Not sure of California laws. Here, I had to contact the utility company that supplies the electric, they came out and gave me the cost for the new service, in my case it was around $600 for the new service. Once you pull the permit, they supply you with a new meter. 
I put mine on 4x4 wolmanized, 4' in the ground and used redimix to cement it at the bottom. 2 grounding rods, or two points of grounding are required here, they have to be at least 8' apart and the grounding wire has to be continuous from the grounding bar in the panel to both grounding rods. Here you have to install your new service panel and wiring, have an inspection done. The inspector notified the utility and they called and scheduled the new service connection. 
All of the information I needed to do this properly is in the book I bought. I have one of those rare 40th additions of Wiring Simplified, its based on the 2002 National Electric Code. They may have a new one out, this one was $10.95. 
They way I figured it, I was only going to do this once, I will probably not need more than 200 apms in my lifetime so I wanted to do it right. I used 12 wire and 20 amp breakers with 20 amp receptacles, now my saw running does not dim the lights. 
Thanx for the picture. VV


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## Giant (Jun 5, 2009)

Hm, I have a good condition 13A rated "outdoor" extension cord.. I see most people recommending something much larger, but I will be well under half of the rated capacity. Is there any reason I shouldnt use this to run my 600w hps and fans?


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## Giant (Jun 5, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> Yep, that needs to be fixed and new service is the best option. Mine was similar, it was 60 amp service, if the dryer was running and we tried to use the Microwave it would trip the main and that was before I started growing. Not sure of California laws. Here, I had to contact the utility company that supplies the electric, they came out and gave me the cost for the new service, in my case it was around $600 for the new service. Once you pull the permit, they supply you with a new meter.
> I put mine on 4x4 wolmanized, 4' in the ground and used redimix to cement it at the bottom. 2 grounding rods, or two points of grounding are required here, they have to be at least 8' apart and the grounding wire has to be continuous from the grounding bar in the panel to both grounding rods. Here you have to install your new service panel and wiring, have an inspection done. The inspector notified the utility and they called and scheduled the new service connection.
> All of the information I needed to do this properly is in the book I bought. I have one of those rare 40th additions of Wiring Simplified, its based on the 2002 National Electric Code. They may have a new one out, this one was $10.95.
> They way I figured it, I was only going to do this once, I will probably not need more than 200 apms in my lifetime so I wanted to do it right. I used 12 wire and 20 amp breakers with 20 amp receptacles, now my saw running does not dim the lights.
> Thanx for the picture. VV


I know it _needs _to be fixed, but does it *need *to be fixed before I start my grow? The way I see it, I am using a max of 20A for my house at a time (between the washer, gas dryer, microwave, TVs, fish tank and filter, and lights), even if my grow uses 7A I should be well under the dangerous threshold.

Realistically, I should be able to afford to do the electric in a few months with the money I save from the grow alone. Thanks for the help!


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 5, 2009)

groputillor said:


> Hey I posted this somewhere else but you seem like you know a lot. Maybe you can help. Thanks
> So this is my first project. I was working on plans for a box to put in the garage, which seemed like an ideal place until I realized that there is no vent. Shit. Well I have a room air conditioner that I don't use, and - forgive me if this is a stupid idea - could I just place it in the garage with the box and connect it to the intake fan on the bottom of the box? The garage is on a ground floor and gets very little sun. It's not all that hot now but I'm worried the summer is gonna change that. The box will be 2.5 by 4.5 by 6 feet and I won't be using anything hotter than a 600 watt hps. Will the A/C even help without drawing air from outside the room? Do I even need it or will having an intake and outtake fan in there be enough? The garage will open and shut a few times a day so some fresh air comes in. My alternative locations are small and more troublesome. I don't wanna just give up on this. I'm stoked and wanna make this work. Please help.


Venting of the enclosed space is absolutely necessary. What you are doing is enclosing co2 eating monsters, they will need 'fresh air'. Air that is not co2 depleted. You can't put fresh air in unless you pull stale air out. And if you are going to put a 600 watt furnace in that size box you will want to air cool the light separate from the intake and exhaust system. Don't forget the oscillating fan to keep the air moving.
If your going to cool the whole garage.......?? VV


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 5, 2009)

Giant said:


> I know it _needs _to be fixed, but does it *need *to be fixed before I start my grow? The way I see it, I am using a max of 20A for my house at a time (between the washer, gas dryer, microwave, TVs, fish tank and filter, and lights), even if my grow uses 7A I should be well under the dangerous threshold.
> 
> Realistically, I should be able to afford to do the electric in a few months with the money I save from the grow alone. Thanks for the help!


Plug the light in and try it. If you would be able to do this in a couple of months use cfl's or floros for the vegging or the sun for that matter. It takes 5 months from seed to usable weed. 
I have always had a tendency to over supply. VV


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## Giant (Jun 5, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> Plug the light in and try it. If you would be able to do this in a couple of months use cfl's or floros for the vegging or the sun for that matter. It takes 5 months from seed to usable weed.
> I have always had a tendency to over supply. VV


Hopefully Ill order the light today, then be able to test it out in a week or so.. Ill be starting with clones, so Ill have a less chance of screwing things up.


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 5, 2009)

dowjones618 said:


> Hello everyone. I am new to the forum and I need some advice to run 1 50 amp extension cord to one of my room and 1 30 amp extension cord to my other room.
> 
> The first room:
> Since I have an electric stove and I don't plan to use it. I am thinking about plugging the 20-30 feet 50 amp extension cord in the electric stove outlet. I check the breaker and it does say 50 amp. Then, I going to plug a 50 amp timer box in the extension cord.
> ...


Yes it would be safe, yes you can attach the cord to the walls. Yes what your thinking of is expensive. VV


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## groputillor (Jun 6, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> Venting of the enclosed space is absolutely necessary. What you are doing is enclosing co2 eating monsters, they will need 'fresh air'. Air that is not co2 depleted. You can't put fresh air in unless you pull stale air out. And if you are going to put a 600 watt furnace in that size box you will want to air cool the light separate from the intake and exhaust system. Don't forget the oscillating fan to keep the air moving.
> If your going to cool the whole garage.......?? VV


 
Ya I was crazy thinking I could put 600 watts in there. But if I can't make it work without venting, even with a much smaller light (which I sorta know is a longshot anyway) then I'm gonna have to change plans or give up and that pisses me off. It looks like there are a million first time growers here who have made it work in spaces that are not ideal. 

Does anyone have any bright ideas to solve my problem?


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## Saul Good (Jun 6, 2009)

Ya gotta love it! Actually anytime any amateur (including myself) works with electricity without fully understanding whay they are doing is and invitation to disaster. Or, at the least, a wonderfully comic moment....
I'm not trying to be scary, and I have often overstepped my knowledge level with Mr. Electricity, but I'm just saying be careful. Playing with plumbing and carpentry and fucking it up will only cause a mess. Fucking up with electrical work has the potential to cause a fire or electrocution. Just be over-careful is all. The world needs all of us growers to teach our children...
And no, I won't change my name to BuzzKill...

That said, I have a question for someone more knowledgeable that me about ballasts and HID lighting. I just picked up eight older (10 yrs) 400 watt HID fixtures when a store did a switchover to flourescent. They were $25 bucks apeice so I couldn't say no and I'm just building a new grow room.
My question is about MH and HPS lights. I've heard and read that the two bulbs are not interchangeable using the same ballast. Is that a fact? Right now, all the fixtures (with ballasts attached, but I'm going to seperate them) came with 400 watt MH bulbs. Is it possible to install a 400 watt HPS in the same mogul fixture?
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

BTW: I've done some of my finest work (I'm a contractor) while buzzed with weed or wine, but I've also gotten some HELLASCIOUS shocks...


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## Saul Good (Jun 6, 2009)

And BTW: I never thanked Bricktown and all the others who started have contributed to this thread. We all appreciate the time and energy and it's very good to have a forum to discuss this stuff. Thanks much!


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 7, 2009)

The ballast themselves are not different, the hps bulbs require another part attached to the ballast. They have different capacitors and the hps has a starter as well. If it were me, I would fix one of those, try it and see what I think of it, let me explain. 
A 400 watt fixture will do a dandy job for clones or seedlings. It doesn't take much space for those until final transplant, so it is likely one will be enough. For $125.00 you could have new 400 watt hps ballast, hood, and bulb. This will not be much more than the conversion bulb you would need to use with the mh ballast, and the hood will be a better configuration for growing. This does not mean I recommend the 400 watt lights, I do recommend getting the most you can for the money you have. VV


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## Martibacardi (Jun 7, 2009)

Okay so i only read like 8 pages on this thread so it prolly has already been asked but how would i go about getting a "im thinking its called" thermostat running to my intake and exhaust fans so that when im gone at work and the room heats up they will turn on. Its going to based in my attic and yesterday my highest temp was 103.8 and thats without any lights or anything so im slightly worried. Thanks


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## grow space (Jun 7, 2009)

nice thread, really informatic...


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## vapedg13 (Jun 7, 2009)

I used to do rough ins when I was young pulled the homeruns and set the switch boxes while the master did the rooms.

I want to add 2 - 20 amps to my fuse box to have 2 devoted plugs ..... I have the space in the box.....What wiring do I want to use?


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 7, 2009)

Martibacardi said:


> Okay so i only read like 8 pages on this thread so it prolly has already been asked but how would i go about getting a "im thinking its called" thermostat running to my intake and exhaust fans so that when im gone at work and the room heats up they will turn on. Its going to based in my attic and yesterday my highest temp was 103.8 and thats without any lights or anything so im slightly worried. Thanks


That is the problem with attic grows, it is either too hot or too cold. See the floors below the attic have insulation between them and the attic to keep the hot air and the cold air out of the house. Now you need to insulate your attic grow space just like it is living space if you want to grow living things there. I have been discussing what you need for an attic grow in a thread I have posted here and this is not really about an electrical question. Please take a look at the thread. https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/187391-diy-venting-grow-room-lights-2.html VV


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 7, 2009)

vapedg13 said:


> I used to do rough ins when I was young pulled the homeruns and set the switch boxes while the master did the rooms.
> 
> I want to add 2 - 20 amps to my fuse box to have 2 devoted plugs ..... I have the space in the box.....What wiring do I want to use?


12-3 for 20 amp breakers. VV


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## vapedg13 (Jun 7, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> 12-3 for 20 amp breakers. VV


Thank you sir


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## REEFS (Jun 7, 2009)

Hey Brick, I have a question from another thread and figured your an electrician so you should have the right answer. Would you save money on your electric bill using a 240 amp ballast opposed to a 120amp ballast? And would the saving warrant switching over?


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## jtreezy420 (Jun 7, 2009)

REEFS said:


> Hey Brick, I have a question from another thread and figured your an electrician so you should have the right answer. Would you save money on your electric bill using a 240 amp ballast opposed to a 120amp ballast? And would the saving warrant switching over?



ha 240amp ballast??? i dont know if ive heard of such thing.. but a 240v line is simply 2 120v lines, therefore twice the current.... so yes savings IMO are warrant for switchin.


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## jtreezy420 (Jun 7, 2009)

anyone used a sentinel hph4? im wondering what kind of terminals to install on the 3wire 10awg when connecting to the sentinel. ANYBODY??

please....


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## REEFS (Jun 7, 2009)

jtreezy420 said:


> ha 240amp ballast??? i dont know if ive heard of such thing.. but a 240v line is simply 2 120v lines, therefore twice the current.... so yes savings IMO are warrant for switchin.


Sorry, You are right I meant 240v Guess I shouldn't have taken that last hit.


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## NewHiddenGrower (Jun 8, 2009)

Thank God for this thread...



For some reason my breaker in my grow room sucks big time.

I only run

650 CFM fan
2 18" osilating fans 
2 1000Watt HPS
3 Air Pumps
3 small timers
1 Wall AC Unit.

And my breaker kicks in.
Right now i had to down grade to 2 600watts

How can i solve my problem so i can use 2 1000watt?


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## REEFS (Jun 8, 2009)

NewHiddenGrower said:


> Thank God for this thread...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not no electrician but it sounds like the breaker you are running off can't handle the load. Depending on the size of your breaker box you might be able to run a separate line off a breaker with less of a load on it just for you lights. Say you have a 200amp breaker box you can buy an add on breaker that you could wire just for you lights. Do you know what is all hooked up to the breaker that powers your grow room? I am sure it is hooked up to more than just your grow room.


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## REEFS (Jun 8, 2009)

Has this always been a problem or did you just set up your grow room? If this is a new problem then your breaker is probably going bad.


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## Bluemax (Jun 8, 2009)

well,i really need to know how much a 400w bulb is going to cost to run,5/6 weeks on 18/6,6 weeks or so for 12/12 flower,now i know there diff charges etc,but just generally???

many thanks


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## NewHiddenGrower (Jun 8, 2009)

REEFS said:


> I'm not no electrician but it sounds like the breaker you are running off can't handle the load. Depending on the size of your breaker box you might be able to run a separate line off a breaker with less of a load on it just for you lights. Say you have a 200amp breaker box you can buy an add on breaker that you could wire just for you lights. Do you know what is all hooked up to the breaker that powers your grow room? I am sure it is hooked up to more than just your grow room.



How do i do that?

This is new problem i just set the room up


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## Martibacardi (Jun 8, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> That is the problem with attic grows, it is either too hot or too cold. See the floors below the attic have insulation between them and the attic to keep the hot air and the cold air out of the house. Now you need to insulate your attic grow space just like it is living space if you want to grow living things there. I have been discussing what you need for an attic grow in a thread I have posted here and this is not really about an electrical question. Please take a look at the thread. https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/187391-diy-venting-grow-room-lights-2.html VV


Okay thanks i know its not exactly the best place to post my question i just couldn't really find a site where ppl knew their shtuff like this. Thanks for the link though.


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## REEFS (Jun 8, 2009)

NewHiddenGrower said:


> How do i do that?
> 
> This is new problem i just set the room up


Well for one thing I would lose the A/C unit which is the most likely culprit (they draw a-lot of power). You could buy reflectors (or rig the ones you have)for your lights that are setup for air cooling buy three in line fans pipe your light system together run the pipe from an intake through both the lights and out of your growroom. Make sure all of your fans are blowing in the same direction put one fan at the intake (blowing toward the lights) put your second fan in between your two lights blowing in the same direction and the last fan as your exhaust (sucking the hot air away from your light) This is the most important part the exhaust needs to be directed outside of your grow room. You will be amazed on how much this alone will cool down your grow room. Another thing that is VERY IMPORTANT never vent you exhaust out side your house, The reason for that is the infrared equiptment the police and dea use to bust people. Your exhaust sticks out like a sore thumb on the infrared. Believe it or not this is the way most indoor grows get busted. Peace.


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## Saul Good (Jun 8, 2009)

Hey REEFS....Nice avatar, but does this mean I have to find a new chipmunk?


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## REEFS (Jun 8, 2009)

Saul Good said:


> Hey REEFS....Nice avatar, but does this mean I have to find a new chipmunk?


Damn, I thought I was the only one. I got to find something more original I guess.


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## erkelsgoo420 (Jun 8, 2009)

Do u happen to have an idiot proof guide to making my light (250w mh agro-max "high yield lighting") into a remote ballast its ok the way it is but if there is a way to do this or even cooltube it that woulb be killer. Thanks for the thread its saved me a great deal of pain already!


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## NewHiddenGrower (Jun 8, 2009)

REEFS said:


> Well for one thing I would lose the A/C unit which is the most likely culprit (they draw a-lot of power). You could buy reflectors (or rig the ones you have)for your lights that are setup for air cooling buy three in line fans pipe your light system together run the pipe from an intake through both the lights and out of your growroom. Make sure all of your fans are blowing in the same direction put one fan at the intake (blowing toward the lights) put your second fan in between your two lights blowing in the same direction and the last fan as your exhaust (sucking the hot air away from your light) This is the most important part the exhaust needs to be directed outside of your grow room. You will be amazed on how much this alone will cool down your grow room. Another thing that is VERY IMPORTANT never vent you exhaust out side your house, The reason for that is the infrared equiptment the police and dea use to bust people. Your exhaust sticks out like a sore thumb on the infrared. Believe it or not this is the way most indoor grows get busted. Peace.



hey i cant man, even without the lights the temp is at 83. 

So please help me fix my eletric problem. I want to use my 1000HPS lights.


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## REEFS (Jun 8, 2009)

Well first of all do you know anything about construction? I only ask because there is no easy solution to this problem. How close is your main breaker box to you grow room? Look inside of your breaker box , your main breaker should be labeled how many amps it is. Every breaker is a separate part you can buy at the home depot. Add up the amps of all your breakers except the main, it should never exceed what you main is capable of handling. (say you have a 100 amp main breaker you add up all the other breakers and it comes up with 80 amps this means you can add another 20 amp breaker) If this is the case you need to first of all switch off the main breaker take the breaker box out of the wall (look around there will be some screws on the inside) install the new breaker and figure out how you are gonna run new wiring to your grow room. Buy a new outlet and wire it up. With typical A/C wiring the color code is black=hot/ white=common/copper=ground. If you don't have any amps to play with then get a really THICK extension cord 12 OR 10 ga. and plug it into an outlet that runs off another breaker that does not have to much draw on it run it to your A/C. I wish I could help more good luck.


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## NewHiddenGrower (Jun 8, 2009)

REEFS said:


> Well first of all do you know anything about construction? I only ask because there is no easy solution to this problem. How close is your main breaker box to you grow room? Look inside of your breaker box , your main breaker should be labeled how many amps it is. Every breaker is a separate part you can buy at the home depot. Add up the amps of all your breakers except the main, it should never exceed what you main is capable of handling. (say you have a 100 amp main breaker you add up all the other breakers and it comes up with 80 amps this means you can add another 20 amp breaker) If this is the case you need to first of all switch off the main breaker take the breaker box out of the wall (look around there will be some screws on the inside) install the new breaker and figure out how you are gonna run new wiring to your grow room. Buy a new outlet and wire it up. With typical A/C wiring the color code is black=hot/ white=common/copper=ground. If you don't have any amps to play with then I suggest either finding a way to run your A/C unit off a different breaker or get a really THICK extension cord 12 OR 10 ga. and plug it into an outlet that runs off another breaker that does not have to much draw on it . I wish I could help more good luck.


No i dont know anything about eletric, but im willing to learn. Im willing to listening to every little thing someone tells me.

I took some pictures, but im not sure if this is the breaker box.

Theres 2 boxes, the one on the left is the one with the switch i have to switch back on when the power goes out in my garage.







Thank you very much.
Please understand this is very important to me...

Ill send you some free clones or bud if you can help me


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## REEFS (Jun 8, 2009)

If you know nothing about electric then I suggest you do nothing with the internals of your breaker (I don't want to get you killed) If I were you I would go to the home depot or another hardware store and buy a spool of wire (just tell them you have a home wiring project or adding on a few outlets they will know what your talking about) the wire I am talking about is actually three wires inside insulation. buy 1 female plug and 1 male plug. on three prong plugs there is the bottom middle prong which is the ground (copper wire no shielding) the left smaller prong is the common (typically green or white) and the right larger prong is the hot wire (black). wire the female plug the same. you have just built your own extension cord. Basic home wiring is flat and a-lot easier to conceal than a typical extension cord. Now it is just trial and error. set up your lights plug in the A/C unit to the cord you just built. Now turn on every thing in your house and plug you A/C into different outlets in your house until you find a winner. Leave every thing on for at least an hour if nothing happens then you are ready to conceal the cord. run the cord under the carpet or behind the trim. And your done.


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## Saul Good (Jun 9, 2009)

Hey REEFS... just a note to say hi and thanks. Now I wish* I* had a prarie dog avatar...... I just left some positive reps, bro. Sorry to bitch.


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## REEFS (Jun 9, 2009)

Saul Good said:


> Hey REEFS... just a note to say hi and thanks. Now I wish* I* had a prarie dog avatar...... I just left some positive reps, bro. Sorry to bitch.


Thats a prairie dog rolling a joint. no problem, I had never seen that avatar before and thought I was being original. Peace.


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## Saul Good (Jun 9, 2009)

NewHiddenGrower... Hmmmmm....the pix aren't really very clear which makes diagnosis more difficult, but it appears that your MAIN panel (the bigger one) is a 200 amp service. It also "appears" that the smaller one is a sub-panel. Probably a 100 amp panel, but it's hard to tell without looking at the breakers.
REEF has given very good general advice. I would add three things:
1. Be overly carefull. Mr. Electric will most likely just curl your hair or give you a boner if you touch the wrong thing at the wrong time, but it can also KILL you.
Not a big deal...it just needs to be treated with respect. Nothing greater than getting behind the wheel of a car.
2. A 200 amp panel is designed to handle a maximum draw of 200 amps before tripping the Main breaker. If you have 10 20 amp breakers in that panel, the only way you overload it is if all 10 of those breakers are pulling their maximum load at the same time. That would be VERY unusual. Like EVERYTHING running at MAX in your entire house. 
For instance, your stove is hooked to a 50 amp breaker (probably), and you electric dryer is hooked to a 30 amp breaker. If you are running all your burners on the stove, plus your oven, and running your dryer at the same time, you're burning 80 amps. Very unlikely but possible.
Bottom line is that a typical 200 amp system is designed for you to use everything that God gave you to run, within reason. Normally we don't have everything running at the same time, so there is a lot of leeway if you use your head.
Don't run the dryer and the oven at the same time as you microwave popcorn, crank up the HT system, and do some welding in the garage.
Most home grow room situations will require no more than a couple of 20 amp breakers and a lot will require less than that.
3. I'm rambling... Your specifics require not a whole lot of juice. But it's tough to say for sure without clearer pix of your current breaker box availability. Can you get a clearer pic of the top (MAIN)breaker? On both boxes would be good.

And give some reps to REEF for getting you on the right track.


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## Saul Good (Jun 9, 2009)

Hey Erkel...I just disassembled a bunch of 'one-piece' HID lights and re-assembled them to allow for the ballast to be in a seperate 'room' with the light fixture in the grow area. Is this what you mean? If so, I'd be glad to help, but I'd need specifics about your particular unit. Let me know vat choo gott...


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## NewHiddenGrower (Jun 9, 2009)

Saul Good said:


> NewHiddenGrower... Hmmmmm....the pix aren't really very clear which makes diagnosis more difficult, but it appears that your MAIN panel (the bigger one) is a 200 amp service. It also "appears" that the smaller one is a sub-panel. Probably a 100 amp panel, but it's hard to tell without looking at the breakers.
> REEF has given very good general advice. I would add three things:
> 1. Be overly carefull. Mr. Electric will most likely just curl your hair or give you a boner if you touch the wrong thing at the wrong time, but it can also KILL you.
> Not a big deal...it just needs to be treated with respect. Nothing greater than getting behind the wheel of a car.
> ...



Thanks but i think my grow room located in the garage doesnt use the main breaker. It uses the smaller one


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 10, 2009)

NewHiddenGrower said:


> No i dont know anything about eletric, but im willing to learn. Im willing to listening to every little thing someone tells me.
> 
> I took some pictures, but im not sure if this is the breaker box.
> 
> ...


THANX FOR THE PICTURES, WE LIKE PICTURES AND DID i MENTION WE LIKE PICTURES. a PICTURE IS LIKE A THOUSAND WORDS.
Now what we have here is a Main Panel and a sub panel. When they started to improve the electric service to the garage they ran out of space in the original box so they ran an extension panel to add available spaces and probably up graded the Main service to 200amp at that time. What they have done is very nice, we can work with that. 
There should be a double pull double throw (DPDT) switch in your main panel labeled GARAGE. If you turn that off, you Garage sub panel should be dead. If you turn that one back on and turn off the top right switch in your sub panel your garage should be dead. 
If that work we can go further. See that space that goes the opposite direction at the very top of your sub panel. You can put a new Mainswitch there, it probably will not be necessary at this point, you have lots of available Space. You can not put one there that has a higher amp rating than the panel does so you need to read what that rating is on the information card in the panel. It is probably a 100 panel. 
All we need to do is run a couple of new circuit for the garage and put in a couple of new breakers. A couple of different ways you can do this, simple as a,b,c, black, white, green and sometimes d which is red. The choice would depend on the distance to the garage, more than likely because you already have a sub panel, we would just decide to skip d and install two or three or........ new 20 amp circuits. 
If your still with me, turn the Garage switch off in the main panel, and take the cover off of the Garage panel, take a look around, you can follow the wires. The dipole switch will have a red wire and a black wire that is connected to the outside of the switch, these are your Hot Wires, they will supply 110 volts each or a total of 220 volts. If you follow them back to the cord or conduit those two come from you will find a white wire, that goes to ground or neutral, and either a green or a bare wire, that is you grounding wire. 
If you look at the Single pull switches ( SPST), they will have a black wire connected to the outside of the switch. Follow that and you will find a white and a green or bare wire. If you can follow that from the panel, you should see it in the garage. 
What we need to do is
1)Install some duplex boxes in the garage
2) wire them to the sub panel
3) Install new Breaker Switchs in the panel. 
ALWAYS TURN THE SWITCH OFF FIRST.
I recommend using 12 wire and 20 amp breakers and receptacles. My reasoning is simple. If I run a 1000 watt light, that will be a 9 amp load, I will still be able to run a small appliance without overloading the circuit, no more than 80% or 16 amps of load. 
If I were doing this for the first time, I would want to take a breaker out to 'See' how it goes in. Always turn off the switch first. There is a 'pry spot' at the inside edge of the breaker, take a plastic or rubber handled medium length flat screw driver and 'pry' gently toward the outside of the panel, just rock it a little to get it started. It will pop right out, the black wire will still be attached to it. What you have done is taken the switch out of the circuit. Now you can 'see' what you need to do to correct this problem. Those little round things on the side of the panel are knock out plugs, clamps hold the wire in place. always pull a little more wire through the hole than you need, 1" short....not good, cut off 6" waste.......much better. Connect you white wire, stripped back 1/2", under any available screw in the neutral bar, and attach the attach the green or bare copper wire to the grounding bar. Now attach the black wire to the breaker switch you are holding in your hand and then plug it in. Put the outside in place and push down on the front until you see it lock in place. You can safely check your work as you go. Once you have your switch in place go plug something that makes noise in the receptacle. Now turn on the garage switch in the main panel, then turn on the switch you installed. If the radio comes on your golden. Turn off the Garage switch in the main panel and continue with the rest of them. 

Breaker Switches for most major manufacturers are available for less than $5.00 at the big box stores, you can often buy a 'Contractor Pack' of 10 for the cost of 5 individually. Just buy the brand for your Sub Panel. Work boxes are inexpensive, I do recommend the deep boxes, it gives you more room to work with, and more space to dissipate heat. They make work boxes for all of the applications, new work and 'old' work. 
When you visit the big box stores look at the displays they have for wiring simple projects. 
The 20 amp receptacles are about $2.50 more than the 15 amp, so around $3.00 a piece, I have been accused of always over supplying available power, my lights don't dim when I run my table saw. When you buy wire that you are likely to use again, its usually cheaper to have 20' more than you need then it is to have 2' less than you need. 
Once you have installed a circuit, it will be like riding a bike, you won't forget how. 

One more thing and then I will stop, because you are doing the work your self you will save a lot of money, use some of that to buy good electrical hand tools if you don't already have them. If will save you a lot of grief. VV


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## pabloesqobar (Jun 10, 2009)

Here's my question/problem: I bought some of the 68w/2700k cfl's from home depot. I want to use them for a 12/12 from seed grow. I also bought some of the 8.5" clamp lights to use as the fixtures to screw into.

I tried it today and was unsuccessful. First, I tried screwing the bulb into the clamp light. It would start to screw in, but I could tell that the bulb was too big for the light and wasn't screwing in all the way. Next, I screwed an extender into the clamp light, and screwed the bulb into the extender. I plugged it in, it "blinked" on for a fraction of a second, and went out. I tried the same set up again with a different clamp light with the same result.

Then I took the bulb and screwed it into a hallway ceiling light fixture, but it didn't work. 

Did I just blow the bulb? Do you know what kind of plug-in fixtures I can use for these bulbs? Thanks so much.


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## erkelsgoo420 (Jun 10, 2009)

Saul Good said:


> Hey Erkel...I just disassembled a bunch of 'one-piece' HID lights and re-assembled them to allow for the ballast to be in a seperate 'room' with the light fixture in the grow area. Is this what you mean? If so, I'd be glad to help, but I'd need specifics about your particular unit. Let me know vat choo gott...


That's exactly what I mean. Its a floralux 250 mh 120v magnetic ballast mounted to the reflector. Ill get everything off the sticker when the lights turn on lol


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## fadrian (Jun 11, 2009)

What's goin on my man, I've got a question for you. I want to put together a couple of things for my grow room and I want to do it cheap. First, I want to buy 4 of these fans to cool my room (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835200048), hook them up to a fan speed controller (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811998808), and hook them up to a power supply. My question is what is the compatibility of all this? What power rating do I need on the power supply to get this all to work? 

Also, If I want to put together my own light by buying a bulb, ballast and socket from a lighting store, do I need to worry about heat from the ballast? How can I keep it cool and safe? 

Thanks man. 

Fadrian


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## erkelsgoo420 (Jun 11, 2009)

Ok so I got some pics up on my photobucket http://m725.photobucket.com/albums/erkelsgoo420/?pbauth=1_uLEBonVPfaLdh1h3YMYz2d23xwntUa92m9/yoJGkHkypsZcn3ZcxEPHmboGw1KXWNSstD1DmSkqYmKlGK6swM9da6Uy+C67UrnnDhtNB0ZrP5ZLfDTcg5SdQ6Ux6n6TM0RFAuxT9eWl98PCnSIuaXgrTQiUIBJDl8OCqQgKMy7A=
Sorry about the quality I'm on a phone but if u can take the time to check it out I would appreciate it its not too bad really just fkin annoying and with the new dehumidifier it would be nice to make this remote to help with the heat in there


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## SEXMAN619 (Jun 11, 2009)

I am curently building 2 rooms 
grow and bloom
grow = 3x400watt. 120v , 2x1000watt 220v
flower= 6x1000 220v

I was looking at this link online: http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/grow-light-controller.asp
I wanted to get your imput and see if you could make a few sugestions for this particular senario.
any help you can provide would be greatly apreciated.


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 11, 2009)

fadrian said:


> What's goin on my man, I've got a question for you. I want to put together a couple of things for my grow room and I want to do it cheap. First, I want to buy 4 of these fans to cool my room (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835200048), hook them up to a fan speed controller (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811998808), and hook them up to a power supply. My question is what is the compatibility of all this? What power rating do I need on the power supply to get this all to work?
> 
> Also, If I want to put together my own light by buying a bulb, ballast and socket from a lighting store, do I need to worry about heat from the ballast? How can I keep it cool and safe?
> 
> Thanks man. Fadrian


Why would you want to make a project out of a job? Buying four fans that are designed to cool a computer and then a controller. Those fans might be good for one plant under cfl's they are not adequate for a grow room.
You will need a power converter from 110 to 12 volt, its internal in your cpu. If you want cheap and effective, this ain't it.

What does buying it at a lighting store have to do with the amount of heat? You know why most of us buy ours all together? Because it is less expensive. You mention a ballast so lets assume we are talking high intensity discharge (hid) and cheap would mean just getting the High Pressure Sodium (hps). It is not just a ballast, there is a started and a capacitor. 
The old man checked this out at an electrical supply store, the do have a ballast kit for 1000 watt hps lights, its $189.00, and I would have to supply the power and case to put it all in. Instead I went to ye olde hydro shop and bought a ballast kit in a case with the power supply cord already in place and a proprietary conversion plug, for $189.00, and all I have to do is plug it in. 
The heat from the ballast is a minimal aggravation compared to the heat from the light. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 11, 2009)

erkelsgoo420 said:


> Ok so I got some pics up on my photobucket http://m725.photobucket.com/albums/erkelsgoo420/?pbauth=1_uLEBonVPfaLdh1h3YMYz2d23xwntUa92m9/yoJGkHkypsZcn3ZcxEPHmboGw1KXWNSstD1DmSkqYmKlGK6swM9da6Uy+C67UrnnDhtNB0ZrP5ZLfDTcg5SdQ6Ux6n6TM0RFAuxT9eWl98PCnSIuaXgrTQiUIBJDl8OCqQgKMy7A=
> Sorry about the quality I'm on a phone but if u can take the time to check it out I would appreciate it its not too bad really just fkin annoying and with the new dehumidifier it would be nice to make this remote to help with the heat in there


The pictures show a non air cooled hood, you are trying to vent the room through the light, it needs to be a separate system. You can make the ballast 'remote' by adding an extra cord between your ballast and the plug for the light, your hydro shop will have them in 25' and 15' lengths. Your will have a 'proprietary plug' so make sure you match it. VV


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## robert 14617 (Jun 11, 2009)

can you explain Tesla's theory of transporting currant without load lines


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 11, 2009)

SEXMAN619 said:


> I am curently building 2 rooms
> grow and bloom
> grow = 3x400watt. 120v , 2x1000watt 220v
> flower= 6x1000 220v
> ...


Maybe he lives in the UK. It is not less expensive in the US to run 220 watt circuits instead of 110. And there are four wires to a 220 volt circuit here, Black, red, white and grounding. The red and black are both hot, white is neutral and bare is the grounding wire. 
Why would you run 3-400 watt light, 1200watts and produce 129,000 lumens when a single 1000 watt will produce that same amount. I would suggest you check out what the cost of the receptacles and wiring is for the 220 volt circuits in the US before you continue with your planning. For an operation that size 200 amps of service will be necessary.
All of the Physical Plant items need to be carefully planned for such an operation, air handling system, plumbing, and electric. VV


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## vapedg13 (Jun 14, 2009)

12-3 wiring has 4 wires......The red wire is a extra lead/hot for a 4 way plug......is that correct??

I'm setting up 2- 20 amp devoted circuts.....I've added the 20 breakers to the fuse box.... set the boxes.......getting ready to hook up the wiring to the breaker

The Black goes to the breaker ....both the white and netral get grounded?? Red doesn't get used??


...........................................Heres 2 photos.................................


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## MyGTO2007 (Jun 14, 2009)

Hey MR.Sparky,my buddy says i dont have enough power... heys stressing me out !! check out the pic or my journal


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## vapedg13 (Jun 14, 2009)

Wanted to bump this..................I'm not getting power to the outlet...Why?? Isn't this hooked up correctly?



vapedg13 said:


> 12-3 wiring has 4 wires......The red wire is a extra lead/hot for a 4 way plug......is that correct??
> 
> I'm setting up 2- 20 amp devoted circuts.....I've added the 20 breakers to the fuse box.... set the boxes.......getting ready to hook up the wiring to the breaker
> 
> ...


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## robert 14617 (Jun 14, 2009)

im no electrician but it looks like the breaker is not nested into the box correctly ,why is there a gap between the 15a and the 20a breakers on the right hand side ?


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## vapedg13 (Jun 14, 2009)

robert 14617 said:


> im no electrician but it looks like the breaker is not nested into the box correctly ,why is there a gap between the 15a and the 20a breakers on the right hand side ?


I forgot to trip the breaker...... Been up to long smokin to much weed.....I got it all working now


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## robert 14617 (Jun 14, 2009)

put in a couple 220v outlets and run some HPS on the 220 its more efficient that way


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## Hairy Bob (Jun 14, 2009)

robert 14617 said:


> put in a couple 220v outlets and run some HPS on the 220 its more efficient that way


Based on what? Yes your drawing half the amps, and can use thinner gauge wire, but a watt is a watt at any voltage.
A ballast may be slightly more efficient at the higher voltage but any gain is marginal, you'd be looking at saving a couple of dollars a year, tops.
Ask BigBudBalls, he knows about this shit.


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## robert 14617 (Jun 14, 2009)

how about you climb off bob?


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 14, 2009)

vapedg13 said:


> I forgot to trip the breaker...... Been up to long smokin to much weed.....I got it all working now


You did not need to buy 220 volt wiring, that is 12-3 with ground. Some, myself included refer to 12-3, its technically 12-2 with ground. If you were wiring a 220 circuit, and there is not any savings to doing so in the US, then you would have used a Double pole double throw (DPDT) switch, the red wire would have gone to the other leg of the breaker, and you would have had to spend about $40.00 for the receptacles, covers and plugs. The 12-2 with ground is less expensive, nothing wrong with the way you have it now. I hope you didn't buy the 12-3 with ground based on anything I said. 
In any case you now have the knowledge you need for wiring a new line. VV


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## Shaolin Monk (Jun 15, 2009)

Hello,

I have a Dayton 4C442 blower with no power cord. What is the best one to use?


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## anticrom (Jun 15, 2009)

I recently got a 240V dual 600watt setup. I was planing on wiring a 240V outlet although I don't have muhc experience. After purchasing the equipment, I noticed they sell 120 to 240v converter transformers. Would this allow me to run a 240V ballast from my 120V outlet? Does th ransformer only plug into one 120V outlet? how does that work?


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## smokecabbage420 (Jun 15, 2009)

ok i have a few questions.
Im building to seperate grow rooms in the one room... my veg room consist of 400w mh and 125w cfl a little cirular fan and a timer all going in to one socket in the wall... my flower room which is not up yet has 400w hps and 90w led plus timer and fan going into its own soket in the same room... Do u think this is too much elec going thru the room?
also i plan on hooking an exhaust systm up when the flower room is set up will this also oferdue it?
And one last question, in my veg room when the timer is plugged in the socket and the cords hang alittle and pull down on the timer it seems to shut the light on the ceiling off not blowing the circuit though just turns the light off until i take the weight off of the timer just wondering if u might no y it is doin this???
Thx for ur help.


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## Hairy Bob (Jun 15, 2009)

robert 14617 said:


> how about you climb off bob?


Sorry if I came over a bit harsh, but I notice you have yet to back up your earlier statement.


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## robert 14617 (Jun 15, 2009)

you are correct sir and yes 60hzs are 60hzs but the wear and tear on the transformer working 110v compaired to 220v


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## Hairy Bob (Jun 15, 2009)

robert 14617 said:


> you are correct sir and yes 60hzs are 60hzs but the wear and tear on the transformer working 110v compaired to 220v


How much longer will an average transformer last at the higher voltage?


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## robert 14617 (Jun 15, 2009)

IDK thats why i come to where the pro's are not to get flamed ,....please inlighten me bob


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## Hairy Bob (Jun 15, 2009)

I don't know exactly, I've seen BigBudBalls explain that the difference is pretty negligible somewhere on here, but for the life of me I can't find the thread it's in.
I'll apologise again if I upset you, but you posted an unsupported statement which could have mislead someone into thinking they would save money in the long run by converting to 220v, when in reality any savings would be minor. I've heard from the pros on here that ballasts can last 10 years or more, with no mention of this having anything to do with the voltage, from which I drew my own conclusions.


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## robert 14617 (Jun 15, 2009)

Hairy Bob said:


> I don't know exactly, I've seen BigBudBalls explain that the difference is pretty negligible somewhere on here, but for the life of me I can't find the thread it's in.
> I'll apologise again if I upset you, but you posted an unsupported statement which could have mislead someone into thinking they would save money in the long run by converting to 220v, when in reality any savings would be minor. I've heard from the pros on here that ballasts can last 10 years or more, with no mention of this having anything to do with the voltage, from which I drew my own conclusions.


 i'll take your unsupported apology


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## tuffles (Jun 16, 2009)

hello sparkies out there. 

there are 47 pages on this thread, and i have a low attention span - hazard of my hobby i suppose - and a quick read through has not offered up the answer. 

so here goes....

i am putting together a carbon filter made up of some activated carbon and a shower extractor fan. we want to put it into a normal UK plug, as i am in the uk. 

it has three areas in it to wire. L, N and L/S

my, very very limited understanding, along with some reading, says that we should use normal wire cord, wire the L to live, the N to netural and the L/S to......well....not sure. 

the l/s is for the switch, yes? a switch we don't want. but if we don't wire the l/s, it will be like the switch is off so it won't work, right?

a couple of people have talked about running a wire from the L to the L/S. 

would this work? and if so, where does that wire run? in the little blue connector bax in the fan unit? 

any help much appreciated. any sarcastic posts pointing me to the solution in another thread where it has been answered a million times also appreciated. 

hell, hate filled posts calling me a newbie idiot with a link to where the answer in are welcome. 

thanks.


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## Hairy Bob (Jun 16, 2009)

Yeah just use a short piece of wire to connect the live to the switch, it'll work.


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## bu2k (Jun 16, 2009)

Hi - I've recently successfully installed a Master Flow PT6 thermostat. The problem is, it is operating in the opposite way I'd like it to - e.g. it turns my fan off when I turn up the thermostat, and turns the fan on when I turn down the thermostat. I've tried swapping the wiring to no avail (fan still runs, but same problem) - I've attached a pic. so you can see the setup - thanks for any help advice!


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## Hairy Bob (Jun 17, 2009)

Did the 'stat come with a manual? There's normally just a switch, at least on the ones I've used, that you flip one way to heat and the other way to cool.
When you say you swapped the wiring, I take it you have two wires going to the 'stat and you just changed 'em round? Are there only two terminals on the thermostat? Could be that there's a com (for the hot wire) and a normally open and normally closed terminals, it's kinda hard to see in that photo.
How many terminals are there, and what are they labeled as?


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## bu2k (Jun 17, 2009)

Hairy Bob said:


> Did the 'stat come with a manual? There's normally just a switch, at least on the ones I've used, that you flip one way to heat and the other way to cool.
> When you say you swapped the wiring, I take it you have two wires going to the 'stat and you just changed 'em round? Are there only two terminals on the thermostat? Could be that there's a com (for the hot wire) and a normally open and normally closed terminals, it's kinda hard to see in that photo.
> How many terminals are there, and what are they labeled as?


Thanks for helping! I've taken a few more pics. and hope they will help ... there doesn't appear to be any switch (unfortunately) - once you take a look, I'd really appreciate your opinion/advice - thanks a ton!


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## bu2k (Jun 17, 2009)

Hairy Bob said:


> Did the 'stat come with a manual? There's normally just a switch, at least on the ones I've used, that you flip one way to heat and the other way to cool.
> When you say you swapped the wiring, I take it you have two wires going to the 'stat and you just changed 'em round? Are there only two terminals on the thermostat? Could be that there's a com (for the hot wire) and a normally open and normally closed terminals, it's kinda hard to see in that photo.
> How many terminals are there, and what are they labeled as?


Thanks for helping! I've taken a few more pics. and hope they will help ... there doesn't appear to be any switch (unfortunately) - once you take a look, I'd really appreciate your opinion/advice - thanks a ton!


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## bu2k (Jun 17, 2009)

bu2k said:


> Thanks for helping! I've taken a few more pics. and hope they will help ... there doesn't appear to be any switch (unfortunately) - once you take a look, I'd really appreciate your opinion/advice - thanks a ton!



I've got the text reversed in the picture - the thermostat turns ON the fan when I turn it DOWN and turns OFF the fan when I turn it up! Whoops.


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## bu2k (Jun 18, 2009)

bu2k said:


> I've got the text reversed in the picture - the thermostat turns ON the fan when I turn it DOWN and turns OFF the fan when I turn it up! Whoops - the OPPOSITE of they way it is supposed to work!



I think the server upgrade killed the pics - here they are again ...


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## Hairy Bob (Jun 19, 2009)

Well that's right then. The fan should turn on if you turn the temperature down, it'll keep running it until it gets below the level you have set. The lower you set the temperature, the more the fan will run.
Am I missing something? Did you make a mistake or am I misunderstanding you?


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## greengirrl (Jun 20, 2009)

I need help!! I am growing in my wardrobe and now the plants have started to stink out my whole flat! I need to attach a wire and plug to the fan that works with the carbon filter (i dont know the proper names for eveything)! basically I have a 230v ~ 50Hz, 25-28watt fan thing with no wires attached. Do I need to have this fitted professionally or would a friend who knows a bit about electrics be ok? I want to be safe rather than sorry. I already lost my first batch of plants cos they over heated  but ive got noone to help me. my plants have never got this big before and theyve started stinking to high heaven!

Please help!! much appreciated


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## Hulk Nugs (Jun 21, 2009)

Was wondering if any one knows how to wire this up ???? This DIY got started and never was finished, I have all the materials and was trying to figure out how to wire it all up but not having any luck. Any Help 

DIY-humidistat-humidify-dehumidify-thermostat-heat-cool

thanks


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 23, 2009)

greengirrl said:


> I need help!! I am growing in my wardrobe and now the plants have started to stink out my whole flat! I need to attach a wire and plug to the fan that works with the carbon filter (i dont know the proper names for eveything)! basically I have a 230v ~ 50Hz, 25-28watt fan thing with no wires attached. Do I need to have this fitted professionally or would a friend who knows a bit about electrics be ok? I want to be safe rather than sorry. I already lost my first batch of plants cos they over heated  but ive got noone to help me. my plants have never got this big before and theyve started stinking to high heaven!
> 
> Please help!! much appreciated


Uhh... so you are not from the States. UK, Australia....? In any case, there will be a cover on a box that is attached to the fan, it should have a couple of screws holding it in place. It should be a simple abc and maybe d type process, I am not familiar with your wiring colors and such. If you go to an Electrical Supply store with the information you have posted here, they should be able to supply you with a length of cord and a male plug. A friend that knows a bit electric should be up to the task at that point. A Picture might help. VV


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## nathenking (Jun 23, 2009)

Check out my attempt to wire a subpanel into my grow room..... 

Wiring in a Subpanel. (pics) ( 1 2 3)
nathenking

its in the grow room design and setup.... I think I got it... but need some expert advice....


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## nathenking (Jun 23, 2009)

Darn it... didnt make it a url... im drunk... ill do it tomorrow.....lol


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## wizardweed23 (Jun 26, 2009)

how well do the outlet adapters work I wanted two lights. 150w hps and 150w mh. Homedepot has medium based adapters that say they plug into the wall. Curious if anyone else has tried these, or could I start a fire?


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## Hairy Bob (Jun 26, 2009)

HID lamps such as HPS and MH require the corresponding ballast in the correct wattage, you can't just plug them into a wall.
The arc inside the bulb creates negative resistance, which will draw more current than the breaker will handle, and so it will trip. A ballast works by limiting the current to a certain amount (which is why it's wattage must be matched to that of the bulb) which the bulb is designed to operate at.


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## Hairy Bob (Jun 26, 2009)

I've a question I'd like to put to someone who has the experience to give me a definitive, well explained answer. 
Is it, or is it not bad practice to use a MH bulb (not conversion or pulse start) in a HPS ballast without altering it ie: removing the ignitor?
Am I right in thinking that at the least it would shorten the lifespan of the bulb, and possibly constitute a safety hazard?
This is the thread where the question has been discussed https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/207243-dual-spectrum-lights.html but we can't seem to resolve the issue conclusively, so I'm referring it here in the hope someone can enlighten me.
Mygirls, who says there is no cause for concern, cites as his main evidence the fact that he does it and it works. However he also states that he runs 1000w lights with no grounding wire and that he has pluged the same lights straight into the mains (sans ballast), then reset the breaker and did it again. 
Can someone help me out here? I've done a thourough search but havn't been able to turn up a decisive answer that has supporting evidence.
Sorry for the long post, and I don't mean to insult mygirls, I just want to know one way or the other, then I can rest easy.


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## DMC65 (Jun 28, 2009)

Wow thi is a great source of info. I hope some of you expert electricians can find some time to reply to another electricity question. 

I'm moving indoor now versus outdoor for security and hopefully quality purposes. The exterior of my 5'x7'x8'h closet/gro room is on the same exterior wall as my main panel-about 50' away. I hve a 50amp subpanel that is also on the same outside wall for a spa that i no longer use. The romex runs underground and passes right by the potential grow room. 

Should i run new wire and put in dedicated circuits or use the wire that is alreay running in conduit outside the room? This is the theory part but i really need basic info on the procedure of actually doing one or the other correctly. I work with wires a lot but we do low voltage stuff and this high voltage stuff sort of has me worried for safety etc...

i'm going to have all the typical equipment and i want the room to be high end quality. Thinking of 4 600 or 1000 watt hids eventualy, light timer, water pump, fans, a/c unit, co2, etc...

So i have pics of my panel in hopes of getting advice as to waht this panel can handle and the best way of doing it as opposed tothe cheapest. Hiring an electrician is too risky IMO. 

thanks


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 28, 2009)

DMC65 said:


> Wow thi is a great source of info. I hope some of you expert electricians can find some time to reply to another electricity question.
> 
> I'm moving indoor now versus outdoor for security and hopefully quality purposes. The exterior of my 5'x7'x8'h closet/gro room is on the same exterior wall as my main panel-about 50' away. I hve a 50amp subpanel that is also on the same outside wall for a spa that i no longer use. The romex runs underground and passes right by the potential grow room.
> 
> ...


Well... lets take a quick look. 4 600 watt light is way overkill for a 5x7 space, 2 would be plenty. If there is not a plan to expand the size of the grow area then the 50 amp sub panel should be enough. You can figure what total of amps you need by dividing the watts by the volts if the amperage is not listed on the equipment. 
If you are going to use more space and add more equipment then you might consider a new sub panel and changing the service to 200 amp. Your existing panel is loaded, most houses are now days. I did mine that way with a little difference, I installed to 200amp box in the workshop and ran the 100amp to the old panel from the new panel.
The work is the same in any case, simple as a,b,c and sometimes d. Black, white, green and when d is present it is red. A, black, hot; B, White, return; C Green or Bare, grounding wire; D Red, hot when present it is a (DPDT) Double pull Double throw Breaker, just like you 50 amp sub panel is right now and the red wire attaches to the second hot spot.
There is not any difference from low voltage to high voltage as long as you remember the cardinal rule, ALWAYS TURN OFF THE SWITCH FIRST. 
It appears you have block and stucco walls, if so this could be a project not a job. You will save a few thousand if you can do it yourself. Just remember to check your work as you go. VV


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## natrone23 (Jun 28, 2009)

My question how much power can a 2 bedroom apartment give out, because I want to run maybe 2 1ks a port ac ect....so between 3 and 4k for the entire setup with veg chamber clones, pumps fans ect.

1 Could I run this in a spare bedroom?

2 if I can't, Could i do dome modification so it could support that much wattage?

3. Is there anything I should look for electrical wise when looking for an apartment. Is newer better? is a town home better ect?


I currently run over 2k in a closet in a 1 bedroom and it runs fine for 2 years now.

Now my question are only concerning Electrical capacity............not security, ect.

But if anybody has done a similar setup let me know thanks


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## DMC65 (Jun 28, 2009)

Not that you need it but i added to your rep VV. Thanks for the answers.
I thought the panel looked too full already. And it is just a 100 amp panel right? Its that 100 amp switch i should flip before doing any work true? So the top breaker is the 50 amp to the spa sub panel. Should i intercept that wiring right outside my room which is before the sub panel or should I re-route or run new from the out bound of the subpanel so i have an extra fuse in the mix? I wonder if its 240v to the spa? I assume i could run the romex thru a conduit and surface mount to the wall then pop in to the room as opposed to going under ground. What would i wire into once in the room if i wanted 3 15 amp circuits?
thanks again.


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 29, 2009)

DMC65 


> Not that you need it but i added to your rep VV. Thanks for the answers.
> I thought the panel looked too full already. And it is just a 100 amp panel right? Its that 100 amp switch i should flip before doing any work true? So the top breaker is the 50 amp to the spa sub panel.


Yes it is if you are working in that panel. And yes that 50 amp is the one that goes to the spa.



> Should i intercept that wiring right outside my room which is before the sub panel or should I re-route or run new from the out bound of the subpanel so i have an extra fuse in the mix?


The sub panel is attached to the wall, you can move it into your room if it is convenient. 

I


> wonder if its 240v to the spa?


Yes it is, this is the abcd circuit, 2-110 legs, red and black, one return or neutral, white, and one grounding wire, green or bare.



> I assume i could run the romex thru a conduit and surface mount to the wall then pop in to the room as opposed to going under ground. What would i wire into once in the room if i wanted 3 15 amp circuits?
> thanks again.


You could, it would not be necessary to use the conduit it you buy the right wiring, a little more expensive, so much easier to work with. 
Circuit breakers are available at the big box stores, I would recommend using the 20 amp breakers with 12 wire and 20 amp receptacles. 1000 watt lights pull 9 amps, 80% of capacity, safety rule of thumb, 16 amps. You can still plug a fan or a pump without over loading the circuit. It is unlikely that you would overload the 50 amp sub panel with the three 20 amp breakers. 
Anything past that, I would recommend the service upgrade to 200 amp. For mine I didn't have a choice, my existing service was 60 amp. 
In my area, you can pull a permit, they supply the meter, you supply the pole to put it on and drive the grounding rods down. The electrical inspector can give you advice on where to put a new 200amp service panel, he doesn't inspect the house, just the location of the new service. VV


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## grandpabear3 (Jun 30, 2009)

ok, i have a switchable 1000w ballast that was a 110v and the previous owner opened it up and switched some wires around and presto....220.
but i only have 110 and need to open it up and switch it back. is there any hope for me or am i gonna have to pay someone to do this? i wired the op and some of the house so i have a decent understanding of electricity but i have never opened up a ballast or anything like that.


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## Top 44 (Jun 30, 2009)

Does anyone know anything about 3 phase 380v wiring? I've got a few questions  thanks


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## 468nova (Jun 30, 2009)

Hi , I have slight problem that Im sure you can help,kiss-ass Ive got 2- 1000wt cool tubes , 1- 600wt vented hps, 1- 23,000btu AC (window) 1- 20 bucket Ebb-flow, 1- 6" inline fan ,2- 4" fans, 4- 2 bulb florecents, Thats the major stuff plus some air stones,oslating fans Everything mentioned above is 120v ....This unit is approx. 40ft from my elec. panel...I want to run 220v to a sub panel at the room..one Question is How may amps should i feed the sub panel??? AND ANY OTHER ADVICE WOULD BE GREAT, Thanks in advance .....And props to you for all your help here on----->>>>> RIU


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 30, 2009)

468nova said:


> Hi , I have slight problem that Im sure you can help,kiss-ass Ive got 2- 1000wt cool tubes , 1- 600wt vented hps, 1- 23,000btu AC (window) 1- 20 bucket Ebb-flow, 1- 6" inline fan ,2- 4" fans, 4- 2 bulb florecents, Thats the major stuff plus some air stones,oslating fans Everything mentioned above is 120v ....This unit is approx. 40ft from my elec. panel...I want to run 220v to a sub panel at the room..one Question is How may amps should i feed the sub panel??? AND ANY OTHER ADVICE WOULD BE GREAT, Thanks in advance .....And props to you for all your help here on----->>>>> RIU


Figuring the amount of amps you would be fairly easy, the formula is V x A = watts. So watts divided by volts equal amps. As an example each 1000watt light divided by the volts of 110 = about 9 amps. Just figure all of the amps you need. 
I doubt that a 23,000 btu Air Conditioner is running on 110, it probably requires a 220 volt circuit. 
The problem with giving advice on the size of a sub panel is, if some one says a size that turns out too small, you have to get another one. Starting to plan electric additions should begin with the Main Service. And a lot of times we find 100 amp service now, it was code a few years ago. Most require 150 amp now. The 200amp is not much more than the 150amp if you have to have new service. 
I can buy a 100amp main panel with a few breakers included for less than I can buy a 70 amp sub panel and switches. If I were adding the amount of equipment you list here, I would be inclined to install new 200 amp service close to the grow area and run the existing Main Panel as a sub panel. Either way you have to have a line capable of running 100amps of power, if I remember right that is 3-3-5 with ground and is available as cord.  VV


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## Ap0c0leS (Jun 30, 2009)

Hey man, What can be used that is easy to install that is like a thermal switch in a 250W HPS light . Would the "sensor" or whatever it is be inside the tent or near the ballast? There will also be other lights in the tent (CFL,UVB,LED). Maybe what i am looking for isnt a "thermal switch" at all and it goes by some other name. Could you help me out here i am trying to totaly eliminate fire risk


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## Ap0c0leS (Jun 30, 2009)

What i am talking about more specifically is a heat sensor that will shut the light off if it gets to a point that would be abnormal/fire.. sorry and thanks


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 1, 2009)

Ap0c0leS


> Hey man, What can be used that is easy to install that is like a thermal switch in a 250W HPS light .


Like, get a thermal switch if that is what you want. The only ways a 250watt light would start a fire is an electrical problem OR having flammable material come in direct contact with it.



> Would the "sensor" or whatever it is be inside the tent or near the ballast?


Why not get 2 sensors, one for the tent and one for the ballast?



> There will also be other lights in the tent (CFL,UVB,LED).


Maybe you need three sensors?



> Maybe what i am looking for isnt a "thermal switch" at all and it goes by some other name.


Thermal switches are called thermal switches.



> Could you help me out here i am trying to totaly eliminate fire risk


Hey man, the only way to 'totally eliminate fire risk' from a grow op is to not have the grow op. I think you are making a project out of a job, you will spend more on eliminating this risk then you have invested thus far. Is there a reason you are so concerned about this 250 watt light?
Most 'tents' have the necessary venting holes for you to air cool that light. VV


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## Ap0c0leS (Jul 1, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> Ap0c0leS
> 
> 
> Like, get a thermal switch if that is what you want. The only ways a 250watt light would start a fire is an electrical problem OR having flammable material come in direct contact with it.
> ...


 
Nope, No concern at all about the light. Actually it is a brand new 250W Digital electronics ballast and cord set. I also have an air sealed/cooled glass reflector. I just figured there would be some simple attachment i could get to hook up to my light plug that will turn it off if it gets to a certain temperature. I have no idea about wireing and i wouldnt know where to begin to install a thermal switch.. is there a noob thermal switch where i can just place what i want plugged into it and have those shut off in the event that the temperature reaches 150 degrees or whatever. Also i will have PLENTY of ventilation as i have the tents exaust and the lights exaust competly seperate from eachother so i should be able to get that light RIGHT DOWN THERE BABY.. WOOO.. anyway is there any nooby thermal switches or does noone bother>?


Kinda like the fan control speed things, only a heat senor and circuit breaker instead.. make sence?


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## dogtato (Jul 1, 2009)

I have 4 65w CFLs that I want to put amongst the plants so I figured I would get some cheap desk lamps to put them in. Cheap desk lamps say not to exceed 40w.

How bad of an idea is it to use them? Is the max wattage because of what the wiring in the lamp can handle or because of the heat a 40w incandescent would generate?

Also, the lamps have an outlet on the base so I could theoretically daisy chain them all together. Is this a monumentally worse idea?

e: I left one on for several hours and it showed no signs of bursting into flame


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## 468nova (Jul 1, 2009)

Thank you --->>>> victor


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 2, 2009)

Ap0c0leS said:


> Nope, No concern at all about the light. Actually it is a brand new 250W Digital electronics ballast and cord set. I also have an air sealed/cooled glass reflector. I just figured there would be some simple attachment i could get to hook up to my light plug that will turn it off if it gets to a certain temperature. I have no idea about wireing and i wouldnt know where to begin to install a thermal switch.. is there a noob thermal switch where i can just place what i want plugged into it and have those shut off in the event that the temperature reaches 150 degrees or whatever. Also i will have PLENTY of ventilation as i have the tents exaust and the lights exaust competly seperate from eachother so i should be able to get that light RIGHT DOWN THERE BABY.. WOOO.. anyway is there any nooby thermal switches or does noone bother>?
> 
> 
> Kinda like the fan control speed things, only a heat senor and circuit breaker instead.. make sence?


No one bothers. Most won't bother with a 250 watt light. If you can get that light right down on there baby, then you don't have a heat problem. If it were getting to 150 degrees in there you would have dead plants. I am done with this conversation. 
Good job on the venting, as long as the light is air cooled, and you have intake and exhaust separate from the light and a nice oscillating fan moving the fresh air around, you will be fine. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 2, 2009)

dogtato said:


> I have 4 65w CFLs that I want to put amongst the plants so I figured I would get some cheap desk lamps to put them in. Cheap desk lamps say not to exceed 40w.
> 
> How bad of an idea is it to use them? Is the max wattage because of what the wiring in the lamp can handle or because of the heat a 40w incandescent would generate?
> 
> ...


The maximum watts is based on the heat from the type of bulb it was designed for, one of the first lights I used for seedling was a desk lamp, the one with the four tube floro's. 
If the bulbs you have are 65 watt, not 65 watt equivalent, you might consider getting better sockets and using 12 wire with a 20 amp breaker for just those 4 lights. Most actual 65 watt cfl's have a mogul base, so I am guessing you have 65 watt equivalent bulbs, and in that case all of what you are considering should be fine. You might want to protect the cords and plugs from spilled water. I appreciate the support, that is funny. VV


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## DoctorNugg (Jul 2, 2009)

Firstly, I apologize if this has already been addressed and I just missed it. 

I have a small area in my basement. In my flowering room, I am using a halogen outdoor light that I got from Lowe's. It cost about 14 dollars, and seems to be doing decent.

I noticed they had outdoor lights with HPS bulbs, for around 55 dollars. My question is, if I bought a heavy duty plug cord, and wired it to the outdoor light, would that work?

It's still wiring it directly into the house either way, and I've done the same with the halogen lamp without any problems. 

The box and pamphlets that come with these lights don't give much info on lumens and such, but I figured it takes a 75 watt or 150 watt hps bulb.

I'm a bit novice, and the main factors are price and heat generation. Ballast systems being the $ they are, it's a little out of range for me, as I have a very small area and it's only for personal use. (About 5x 

Any advice would be helpful, and thank you in advance.


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## snow4aaron (Jul 2, 2009)

Hello
I have 2 65w Lights of America flood lights with the screw in type bulb. I wired them up to power cord but I can't seem to get them to work at the same time. Any ideas? Thanks!


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## dogtato (Jul 2, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> The maximum watts is based on the heat from the type of bulb it was designed for, one of the first lights I used for seedling was a desk lamp, the one with the four tube floro's.
> If the bulbs you have are 65 watt, not 65 watt equivalent, you might consider getting better sockets and using 12 wire with a 20 amp breaker for just those 4 lights. Most actual 65 watt cfl's have a mogul base, so I am guessing you have 65 watt equivalent bulbs, and in that case all of what you are considering should be fine. You might want to protect the cords and plugs from spilled water. I appreciate the support, that is funny. VV


They're 300w equivalent (I think they might be 68 watt?) but fit in a regular socket. Got them at Home Depot for $15 each.

I was thinking of mounting them to the wall so I wouldn't have to worry about them getting wet and because there's not much space amidst a SOG setup for desk lamps.


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## DMC65 (Jul 6, 2009)

Ap0c0leS said:


> Nope, No concern at all about the light. Actually it is a brand new 250W Digital electronics ballast and cord set. I also have an air sealed/cooled glass reflector. I just figured there would be some simple attachment i could get to hook up to my light plug that will turn it off if it gets to a certain temperature. I have no idea about wireing and i wouldnt know where to begin to install a thermal switch.. is there a noob thermal switch where i can just place what i want plugged into it and have those shut off in the event that the temperature reaches 150 degrees or whatever. Also i will have PLENTY of ventilation as i have the tents exaust and the lights exaust competly seperate from eachother so i should be able to get that light RIGHT DOWN THERE BABY.. WOOO.. anyway is there any nooby thermal switches or does noone bother>?
> 
> 
> Kinda like the fan control speed things, only a heat senor and circuit breaker instead.. make sence?[/quote
> ...


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## Ap0c0leS (Jul 7, 2009)

Well im back again for another Question.. I believe i have two 12v PC fans that i would like to connect together somehow.. im guessing to a 12 volt adapter so i can plug them into a normal electrical outlet. Do you know what im saying? One of the fans is about 2 inchs around and the other is about 7". the larger fan has a 3 speed control switch, this fan is called an antec 3 speed fan and has a 3 speed control .. L M H.. How do i connect these fans together and adapt them to a power source to plug them into the wall.. the small fan says DC12V 1.0W (model N5010B2) ...


Small fan has 3 cords.. one red one black one yellow...... small pc hookup on the end
Large fan has 2 cords .. black and red and it goes into a regluar pc power adapter slot that you would plug into a hard drive or that would fit into one of the power supply cords


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 8, 2009)

Ap0c0leS said:


> Well im back again for another Question.. I believe i have two 12v PC fans that i would like to connect together somehow.. im guessing to a 12 volt adapter so i can plug them into a normal electrical outlet. Do you know what im saying? One of the fans is about 2 inchs around and the other is about 7". the larger fan has a 3 speed control switch, this fan is called an antec 3 speed fan and has a 3 speed control .. L M H.. How do i connect these fans together and adapt them to a power source to plug them into the wall.. the small fan says DC12V 1.0W (model N5010B2) ...
> 
> 
> Small fan has 3 cords.. one red one black one yellow...... small pc hookup on the end
> Large fan has 2 cords .. black and red and it goes into a regluar pc power adapter slot that you would plug into a hard drive or that would fit into one of the power supply cords


They 12 volt converter in the cpu can be removed and used. VV


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## phishmonster (Jul 8, 2009)

How many amp circuit do I need to run four 1k hps and two 400 hps bulbs? Can I use say the exsisting cicuit for the four 1K in the bedroom coming fro the service which is a 20 amp circuit? And use another 20 amp circuit for the other two 400hps? What is the best way to wire this to a service? Thanks!


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## warehousemouse (Jul 8, 2009)

Okay. I got myself some seeds that I germinated, and I'll need to plant them tomorrow. I got a light fixture CFL's.

Black/White > Negative/Positive? How do I wire that to a plug to plug into an outlet? Just cut the chord off something? Then how do I know what to wire to what? Thanks.


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 9, 2009)

bugsrnme said:


> ok, i have a switchable 1000w ballast that was a 110v and the previous owner opened it up and switched some wires around and presto....220.
> but i only have 110 and need to open it up and switch it back. is there any hope for me or am i gonna have to pay someone to do this? i wired the op and some of the house so i have a decent understanding of electricity but i have never opened up a ballast or anything like that.


All of the wires in a ballast are marked. As long as your neutrals all stay connected and you only disconnect one Hot wire you should be fine. There could be two or 3 parts in there, Mh has a capacitor and the ballast, the hps has a starter as well. All of the items you would be concerned about should be clearly marked. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 9, 2009)

phishmonster said:


> How many amp circuit do I need to run four 1k hps and two 400 hps bulbs? Can I use say the exsisting cicuit for the four 1K in the bedroom coming fro the service which is a 20 amp circuit? And use another 20 amp circuit for the other two 400hps? What is the best way to wire this to a service? Thanks!


the formula is volts x amps = watts. Divide watts by volts it will give you amps. For an operation like that, you would want to install much more than a couple of 20 amp circuits. I have 8 circuits dedicated to my op and I only have 3-1000 watt lights. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 9, 2009)

warehousemouse said:


> Okay. I got myself some seeds that I germinated, and I'll need to plant them tomorrow. I got a light fixture CFL's.
> 
> Black/White > Negative/Positive? How do I wire that to a plug to plug into an outlet? Just cut the chord off something? Then how do I know what to wire to what? Thanks.


This may help. The colors of the wires and screws will be the same in the fixture. You should use wire nuts and seal those off with electric tape.  VV


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## n00bGrower (Jul 16, 2009)

If I have an a/c adapter from a router that has an output of 48v, can I potentially hook up 4 12v pc fans as long as I don't exceed the amps on the adapter?


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## nellyatcha (Jul 16, 2009)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


 
what kind of ballast is this because i bought it and i was told its a mh and came with the fixture, and it ran hot with the mh bulb and now i put a 430w hps in it and it runs way better and dont get as hot so whats the deal with that and i will submit pics as well. it doesnt have a ignitor and i have pics of both my 400w halide and my 430w super argo hps, and its non conversion either


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## Dolce Vita (Jul 17, 2009)

hey guys does anybody have any idea how to make an old 12v xbox fan hook up to the wall without me going out and buying an inverter?


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## HighAddi (Jul 17, 2009)

I just need to know if I need to use a ballast with a 200W CFL? Or could I just use a simple clamp lighting fixture? I see that they do sell 200W CFL but no ballasts.


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## riznob10000 (Jul 18, 2009)

Okay, i've only read through the first 15 pages of this thread so far, but I felt extremely compelled to jump to the end and post before I finish reading. 

Please people, just stop now!!! To all of you trying to do your own funky wiring, trying to refurbish old equipment or make use out of some old shit that you found, or were given from a friend, whatever!! JUST STOP NOW BEFORE YOU HURT YOURSELF OR MORE IMPORTANTLY SOMEONE ELSE!!! Don't fuck around with this shit!! Were talkin about lots of electricity and heat, and some of you fuckers are gonna start a fire and kill someone. I'm not kidding!! I had ( notice the post tense ) a dumb ass friend who tried fuckin around with some hokey shit and burnt half his house down and nearly killed three people!!! Neighbors had to bang on their front door to wake them up or they would all be dead now. PLEASE STOP NOW!!!

Bite the bullet and go buy lights and peripheral equipment that is manufactured and rated for this kind of usage, and maybe THEN ask questions on how to properly set it up. Quit doin all this funky do-it-yourself slab together this shit with that shit. Nobody is going to benefit from your half-assed setup or be impressed with your thriftyness. They might not even come to your funeral when you kill yourself due to your own stupidity. And if you end up harming someone else, well, better run far and fast, cause everyone's gonna want a piece of your ass. I definately wouldn't want to be living next to some of you people, not with the fire hazards you are creating.

A very large number of the questions and pics I see on here scare the hell outta me. Yes, some of you people scare me. You have opposable thumbs and an extremely large frontal cortex; please use them wisely. If you don't have the cash to do it right, then DON'T DO IT!!! Wait until you can do it properly, and here's the most important point, safely. 

Our movement, our cause, our desire to be able to enjoy what we want to do in our free time, is not going to be helped by dumb asses startin' fires and killin people and destroying property. So just stop now please. Do it the right way, or don't do it at all.

I just gotta say also, this thread is great, and will hopefully save some people from gettin hurt.

P.S. don't forget to have smoke/fire alarms and a fire extinguisher OUTSIDE of your grow space and easily accessible.


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## riznob10000 (Jul 18, 2009)

nellyatcha said:


> what kind of ballast is this because i bought it and i was told its a mh and came with the fixture, and it ran hot with the mh bulb and now i put a 430w hps in it and it runs way better and dont get as hot so whats the deal with that and i will submit pics as well. it doesnt have a ignitor and i have pics of both my 400w halide and my 430w super argo hps, and its non conversion either


From three posts up on this page. Case in point. This is the kinda stuff i'm talkin about! You say you bought this. From which junk dealer and in which decade? Looks like somethin Ben Franklin might have worked with, and you've got it sittin on a piece of cardboard? Can you really not see the fire hazard? Scrap that shit bro, and go " buy " a new system from a reputable supplier. I'm serious, before you do harm to yourself or someone else, throw that shit away!!!! Don't give it to someone else. Don't sell it. Throw it away. WTF?


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 19, 2009)

Dolce Vita said:


> hey guys does anybody have any idea how to make an old 12v xbox fan hook up to the wall without me going out and buying an inverter?


There is a post on using a telephone charger cord or cords from other similar devices posted in FAQ, upper left hand corner of every page, check there. VV

HighAddi *200 Watt CFL*


> I just need to know if I need to use a ballast with a 200W CFL? Or could I just use a simple clamp lighting fixture? I see that they do sell 200W CFL but no ballasts.


The ballast is internal, its in the base of the bulb, you will probably need a mogul socket, available at all hydro shops for around 10 buck with the cord. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 19, 2009)

riznob10000 said:


> Okay, i've only read through the first 15 pages of this thread so far, but I felt extremely compelled to jump to the end and post before I finish reading.
> 
> Please people, just stop now!!! To all of you trying to do your own funky wiring, trying to refurbish old equipment or make use out of some old shit that you found, or were given from a friend, whatever!! JUST STOP NOW BEFORE YOU HURT YOURSELF OR MORE IMPORTANTLY SOMEONE ELSE!!! Don't fuck around with this shit!! Were talkin about lots of electricity and heat, and some of you fuckers are gonna start a fire and kill someone. I'm not kidding!! I had ( notice the post tense ) a dumb ass friend who tried fuckin around with some hokey shit and burnt half his house down and nearly killed three people!!! Neighbors had to bang on their front door to wake them up or they would all be dead now. PLEASE STOP NOW!!!
> 
> ...









I appreciate your sentiment, the purpose of this thread is to give folks advice so they won't have accidents. If I were you and I had four cfl's hanging from cheap extension cords using y splitters that are not wrapped with anything, I probably wouldn't have posted anything like this until I took care of that. I am sure you have done this before, its not your first grow, I am sure you are trying to be helpful. Maybe there is a way you could say about the same thing without trying to sound like 'the authority', especially since questioning authority is part of all of your posts. VV


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## riznob10000 (Jul 19, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> I appreciate your sentiment, the purpose of this thread is to give folks advice so they won't have accidents. If I were you and I had four cfl's hanging from cheap extension cords using y splitters that are not wrapped with anything, I probably wouldn't have posted anything like this until I took care of that. I am sure you have done this before, its not your first grow, I am sure you are trying to be helpful. Maybe there is a way you could say about the same thing without trying to sound like 'the authority', especially since questioning authority is part of all of your posts. VV


I knew someone would have somethin to say to me directly, and though I didn't address you directly, i'm glad you appreciate my sentiment. Obviously this thread is meant for advice to avoid accidents, but since I didn't find that anyone had echoed my sentiment, I gave some advice as well, meant of course to help people avoid accidents. I hope you found a little more from my threads than somethin to try and dog me on, but since you brought it up, yes my four cfl's are on cheap ( as opposed to terribly expensive ) extension cords, but hmmm, the cords are rated for thirteen amps, or 1625 watts, and i'm not even pullin one tenth of that, so ah, I think i'll do alright. As for the splitters and sockets, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I did do the math, and I'm fine there as well. And what the fuck would I wrap them with, and why? To actually CREATE a fire hazard? Do you wrap the sockets of all the lights in your house with somethin? Am I missin part of the code somewhere?

And yes, I was trying to be helpful, by giving a dose of " reality ", not be " the authority " which I'm not, and don't pretend to be, although that's totally what you seem to be coming off as. Are YOU the authority? Did I give bad advice, Mr. decider of what constitutes a valid post? Is this your thread? Whatever. I'm done with you; no more conversation.

To everyone else, i'm sorry if you were offended, but my post was intended to grab your attention and hopefully make some of you rethink what you're tryin to do, for safety's sake, not cost effectiveness or convienience. If I made at least one person think " you know, he's probably right, maybe I shouldn't try that, I'll do it the right way ", then my post was successful. I know three people that have died in fires ( not from growin, those friends were lucky, but still...) and I'm just hopin other people don't have to feel what it's like, or end up an innocent victim.

Be safe and have a great day!


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## n00bGrower (Jul 20, 2009)

riznob10000 said:


> ... If I made at least one person think " you know, he's probably right, maybe I shouldn't try that, I'll do it the right way " ...


I think the only thing anyone who has read your post came away with is "Wow, that riznoob1000 guy is a real asshole."

Vic and the other experienced people here have supplied invaluable information to anyone who has needed or requested it. Their focus has always been offering advice with safety being paramount. Your contributions to this thread have done nothing but expose your own inability to participate in a forum discussion in a mature way. 

Granted, there are obvious safety issue when doing any DIY project, whether it's electrical or otherwise, and it isn't the responsibility of those offering guidance to be responsible for some else's stupidity. If someone posted a question about a setup that seemed dangerous, I highly doubt anyone here would remain silent. 

Also, electricity has been stigmatized as this unwieldy, unpredictable element that is just waiting at every corner to break out of the junction box and set your whole world aflame. This isn't so. If treated with respect and handled properly, wiring certain things is actually safer than mowing your lawn...

Get a grip dude and worry about your own shit instead of pissing on your neighbors' parade.


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## totalybaked (Jul 20, 2009)

How do you run a wire from your breaker box to where u want the outlet?


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## Specialkey (Jul 20, 2009)

sorry to interrupt I have got another electrical question:
these cfl lights at 2 and 4 pin where you get the fittings for them,I can see they sell only the lights.
Thanks


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## nellyatcha (Jul 20, 2009)

riznob10000 said:


> From three posts up on this page. Case in point. This is the kinda stuff i'm talkin about! You say you bought this. From which junk dealer and in which decade? Looks like somethin Ben Franklin might have worked with, and you've got it sittin on a piece of cardboard? Can you really not see the fire hazard? Scrap that shit bro, and go " buy " a new system from a reputable supplier. I'm serious, before you do harm to yourself or someone else, throw that shit away!!!! Don't give it to someone else. Don't sell it. Throw it away. WTF?


 
dude i bought it from way the fuck out my way ad they got a site and etc i took it apart so i could show someone it man wtf im far from dumb . so stop with the b.s man 4-real kuz all i asked is why does it run 2 bulbs but was told its a mh ballast and you come with some b.s just to have a chat riot man go somewhere else and win an award man 4-real . but i do respect the safty stuff your talking about


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## nellyatcha (Jul 20, 2009)

n00bGrower said:


> I think the only thing anyone who has read your post came away with is "Wow, that riznoob1000 guy is a real asshole."
> 
> Vic and the other experienced people here have supplied invaluable information to anyone who has needed or requested it. Their focus has always been offering advice with safety being paramount. Your contributions to this thread have done nothing but expose your own inability to participate in a forum discussion in a mature way.
> 
> ...


 
i like what you said bro thats what im talking about


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## riznob10000 (Jul 20, 2009)

I concede the fact that I came off hard, rude, insensitive, even potentially hostile. Like I said, I knew three people that died in fires, two of them children, and it's scary and sad and hits close to home. I just want people to avoid that potential, and sometimes it means scrapin what you're workin with and starting over from scratch. I know I have anyway.

So once again, I offer my most sincere and humble apology ( no sarcasm ) to any and everyone I might have offended, and will be a little more select with my verbage in the future, k? 

At least we're talkin about it...


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## panta (Jul 20, 2009)

if i have a climate controler that can handle 15amp and i need to run a co2 reg. and a ac or heater and 3 fans on it what do i need to make it work


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 21, 2009)

totalybaked said:


> How do you run a wire from your breaker box to where u want the outlet?


First, you need to have an open switch in the panel, a spot that has a cover. Second, if you have an open spot, remove the cover and look at a particular circuit. See the black wire attached to the outside of the switch, that is the hot or power wire, if you follow it back to its entry into the panel, you will find a white wire and a bare or green wire that come from the same romex that the black wire came from, they will go to the ground bar (white wire) and the grounding bar ( bare or green wire). That is one half of a circuit. Those three wires connect to a receptacle, Black wire to the gold screw, white wire to the silver screw and bare or green to the green screw would be the other half of the circuit. Of course you will need a breaker switch also, they are available at the big box stores, usually less than $5.00. 
I do recommend 12 wire and 20 amp switches and receptacles for any new circuits you run. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 21, 2009)

Specialkey said:


> sorry to interrupt I have got another electrical question:
> these cfl lights at 2 and 4 pin where you get the fittings for them,I can see they sell only the lights.
> Thanks


Those are special bulbs to replace burnt bulbs. I have a desk lamp and a floor lamp that use that 4 pin bulb, and I used that desk lamp for a light for a couple of seedling when I first started. You can get them on sale for around $20.00 with the bulb in them. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 21, 2009)

panta said:


> if i have a climate controler that can handle 15amp and i need to run a co2 reg. and a ac or heater and 3 fans on it what do i need to make it work


It sounds like you are going to need some thermally controlled switches, which are probably part of the controller you have, Picture are probably going to be required to answer your question. VV


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## farmer2424 (Jul 21, 2009)

alright i have a question for yeah. just want to make a very clean movable ceiling that has light fixtures probably 5 er 8 fixed in place, then 5 er 8 more that are on expendable flexible metal tubes to hang down below the canopy. the movable lights i know how to do, but i am unsure of the wiring required to safely put the 5 or 8 fixed lights on the ceiling itself. i plan on wiring all of the lights to a central box and then running a grounded (three prong) cable from the box to a surge protector and then the wall.how do i do all of this and not burn the house down???? haha, thanks Bricktown, have a good one


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## grow space (Jul 21, 2009)

So, is it possible to take a 4 or <a 6 strip extension cord and hook it right to the cable, where used to be a light socet-planning this to do in my shed, where are no boxas and shit-can this be done??planning on runnning 6-8 cfls and later also a 70 watt hps+
2 pc fans, and on big oscilating fan.


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## WaTzRelLyGoOd (Jul 21, 2009)

if i buy a  Super Quiet PowerMax 4400 Watt Portable Gas Generator how long would you say it will run constant since im trying to figure out how much gas im gonna need. Im trying to run 2 600 watt hps hortilux bulbs and one of those air conditoners that isnt in the window since my room dosnt have any windows. my electric bill has been over $400 trying to keep shit cool. any help is appreciated. thanks.


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 22, 2009)

farmer2424 said:


> alright i have a question for yeah. just want to make a very clean movable ceiling that has light fixtures probably 5 er 8 fixed in place, then 5 er 8 more that are on expendable flexible metal tubes to hang down below the canopy. the movable lights i know how to do, but i am unsure of the wiring required to safely put the 5 or 8 fixed lights on the ceiling itself. i plan on wiring all of the lights to a central box and then running a grounded (three prong) cable from the box to a surge protector and then the wall.how do i do all of this and not burn the house down???? haha, thanks Bricktown, have a good one


You would have to start the plan based on the watts or amps that the lights require. When you start talking these kinds of numbers, 16 lights and auxiliary appliances, you may be talking about having to upgrade your electric service. If I were considering having the type of sub panel arrangement your talking about, I would probably run 100 amps to the sub panel, they are less expensive than smaller panels are and usually have 20 spaces for 110 circuits. The surge protector is not going to do anything, a ground fault circuit interrupter might, I would imagine that would be very expensive for a 100 amp circuit. 
For that amount of power it will be four wires, hard wired to the Main Panel.
Now if you mean 16 cfl's ......??? VV

grow space



> So, is it possible to take a 4 or <a 6 strip extension cord and hook it right to the cable, where used to be a light socet-planning this to do in my shed, where are no boxas and shit-can this be done??planning on runnning 6-8 cfls and later also a 70 watt hps+
> 2 pc fans, and on big oscilating fan.


NO. You could install a receptacle that you could plug a cord into, first you would need to identify the switch in the main panel. Then go visit your local big box stores electric department and look for a few good basic tools. If you are going to save money by not hiring an electrician you will need them. For this project a good wire stripper and a straight and phillips head screwdriver will be required. 
Now go look at the displays the have, one will show you what you would need to do to remove a light socket and install a receptacle, parts are about $5.00, they also have books for about $20.00 that have pictures, you may want to get one of those, if you continue growing this will not be your last project. 
Always TURN OFF THE SWITCH FIRST, the one we identified before we went to the big box store, then remove the light socket, attach the black wire to the gold screw of your new receptacle, attach the white wire to the silver screw, and the green or bare wire to the green screw. I recommend wrapping the back side of the receptacle with electric tape as an added safety precaution, then push it up into the box, install the cover and plug your radio into it. 

Now, go turn the switch on. If the radio plays, your golden, if it doesn't, TURN OFF THE SWITCH. 
If the switch goes 1/2 way off by itself, call an electrician. 
More than likely, this light is not the only thing on this circuit, it is probably 14 wire, and a 15 amp breaker. It may not carry the load for all of those lights and the fans that you are going to need. I would forget the 70 watt hps. VV

WaTzRelLyGoOd *How long will the gen run 2 hps 600*


> if i buy a  Super Quiet PowerMax 4400 Watt Portable Gas Generator how long would you say it will run constant since im trying to figure out how much gas im gonna need. Im trying to run 2 600 watt hps hortilux bulbs and one of those air conditoners that isnt in the window since my room dosnt have any windows. my electric bill has been over $400 trying to keep shit cool. any help is appreciated. thanks.


Wow. Your trying to figure out a $3000.00 solution to an air handling problem, air cool the lights first. Take the heat from the light out of the equation. You do this by blowing outside air through cool tubes and back outside. I have (3) 1000 watt lights with one air cooling line. I posted a thread for installing a system, you may want to look at doing that first. VV


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## WaTzRelLyGoOd (Jul 22, 2009)

thanks i orderd a 6 inch exhaust and carbon filter


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## Tyrannabudz (Jul 24, 2009)

I am running 3 new circuits to my grow space. 20A 220V, and 2 20A 110V circuits. 220 circuit is for a 600W lamp. A 20A ded. circuit for my a/c. And the last 20A circuit will run a 400W lamp and 4 22 watt fluoro's. I ran 12-2 for everything. I opened up the service panel to find there are no open spaces on the neutral/ground bus bar. There are 13 open spaces for breakers on the hot bus bar. 

Do I need to install another neutral/ ground bus bar?
Can I put some sort of extension on the existing bus bar, to wire my new circuits to?
Or do I need to install a sub panel? 
Thanks in advance.


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## DoeEyed (Jul 24, 2009)

I have a question. I live in an older house (built in the 50's) and the wiring is kinda screwy. It seems like the kitchen (and appliances), garage, and entire upstairs (including the bedrooms) are all on the same line. There is not a fuse box in the basement - it has a breaker box. Now in the winter, because of everything on the same line, we can only run two of the radiator looking electric heaters, on low, and if one gets turned up or someone uses the microwave it trips the breaker. So my question is - based on this - can you give me a rough idea of how many 400w HPS lights I will be able to run on this circuit?


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## xlxALeexlx (Jul 24, 2009)

One smart dude. Great thread! Thanks, will be using it.


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## Tyrannabudz (Jul 24, 2009)

I got my answer, no offense I could'nt wait. My neutral/ground bar are one in the same so I am going to double up a few of the existing grounds in the bar to free up some space for my new wiring. Thanks anyway.


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## Herbal Healing 420 (Jul 25, 2009)

is it a problem to plug 1 power strip (surge protector) into a another one and possibly a 3rd? like a chain


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## Hairy Bob (Jul 25, 2009)

DoeEyed said:


> I have a question. I live in an older house (built in the 50's) and the wiring is kinda screwy. It seems like the kitchen (and appliances), garage, and entire upstairs (including the bedrooms) are all on the same line. There is not a fuse box in the basement - it has a breaker box. Now in the winter, because of everything on the same line, we can only run two of the radiator looking electric heaters, on low, and if one gets turned up or someone uses the microwave it trips the breaker. So my question is - based on this - can you give me a rough idea of how many 400w HPS lights I will be able to run on this circuit?


If your entire house only has enough supply to run two electric heaters on low, I would seriously think about getting the place professionally rewired before you consider running high wattage lights 12+ hours a day. What if you want to use the oven, or a vacuum cleaner and it trips the breaker controlling your growlight? Then you'd have to wait a few minutes before turning the power back on to avoid a hot restart of the bulb, which can shorten it's life significantly.
Besides which, if the wiring is 50-odd years old, you have no idea what sort of condition it's in and whether it will cope with multiple high load appliances for extended periods. Personally I would have it rewired even if I wasn't growing. I couldn't be doing with picking and choosing between a hot meal or a warm house! Although it is a good way of making you save energy, you shouldn't be able to run up a massive electricity bill!


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## Hairy Bob (Jul 25, 2009)

Herbal Healing 420 said:


> is it a problem to plug 1 power strip (surge protector) into a another one and possibly a 3rd? like a chain


As long as you don't exceed the current rating for any of the power strips or the outlet you are plugged into, no problem. I assume you are wanting to run lots of cfls around the room? 
Don't try to daisy chain loads together into one long extension cord though, you end up getting a fair voltage drop at the end of the line.


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## I smoke (Jul 25, 2009)

i have a pretty simple question pertaining to simple fans to keep some kind of air flow and circulation going..

i ripped out 2 lil fans







and i was wondering how i could ghetto rig these fans so that they get power.

i emptied out a Computer and im going to slap on reflective tape all on the inside, leaving the holes for wires/breathing/light fixture







So again, my question was just;

how can i ghetto rig (for now) these fans to get power?


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## Hairy Bob (Jul 26, 2009)

Look on the fans, they should have a voltage and current printed on them. Find a cell phone charger with roughly the same values and join the wires together.


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## I smoke (Jul 26, 2009)

Hairy Bob said:


> Look on the fans, they should have a voltage and current printed on them. Find a cell phone charger with roughly the same values and join the wires together.


i ripped 1 charger apart and it only had copper wires .. i only have the lil' fan now  other one BLEW.. but the lil' one, it has the RED/WHITE/BLACK wire so its makin' things difficult for me..


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## AlphaMale706 (Jul 26, 2009)

hello and thanks so much for your help.



Okay so i live in a house. Inside my master bed room there is a bathroom.Inside the bath there is a 7x7 walk in. There is no plug ins or anything. Also the outlet in the bathroom just doesnt work. 


I have 2 questions. WOuld it be okay to just drill threw the wall and work from one or two extension cords with power strips?

Is there possibly a easy way to get power in there?

ALso the attic entrance is in the closet.


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## stumbler69 (Jul 26, 2009)

AlphaMale706 said:


> hello and thanks so much for your help.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would highly suggest you check the outlet that isnt working first, pull it out and check for a short or if its disconnected.

I would personally install another outlet or 2 into that closet espically with attic access, but it really depends on your skill level, dont do anything your not comfortable with and you wont burn your house down.


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## LogHead (Jul 28, 2009)

hey, just came across this thread and had a quest. Okay, theres these 100w hps/mh bulbs that they sell at home depot. my question, can you use these in just a reg socket without a ballast? i've heard people say you can, but the bulbs lifespan will be shorter, is this true?


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## Hairy Bob (Jul 28, 2009)

If it's an actual hps or mh, not some incandescent masquerading as a growlight, then you can't run it straight from the socket with no ballast, it will just trip the breaker, blow a fuse or melt a wire, whichever is the weakest link. These type of bulbs have a negative resistance characteristic, which will overload the circuit if there is no resistor or ballast to limit the current flow.
I have heard of smaller wattage hps being able to run with a simple resistor, but I've never seen such a thing and I don't even know how big a bulb would have to be before it required a ballast.
What's more, I've never seen or heard of a 100w hps or mh, they are usually 75 or 150w.
You got a link to this bulb?
edit: I found a 100w mh bulb on the home depot site, but it still requires a ballast.


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## LogHead (Jul 28, 2009)

yeah, i thought so. i was just curious bc i've heard it could work and idk it sounded iffy and now i know for sure it is wrong. Thanks Bob!


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## Ax3 (Jul 29, 2009)

Hey. This question might seem a bit stupid but here goes:
I want to create a powerpoint nearby my grow room (otherwise nearest access would be via an extension cord). 

My grow room is right up against a crawl-space where there is several exposed electrical wires running. One of which runs out through a wall-vent (which i will actually be using for ventilation), and to an outside powerpoint.

Now is it possible to somehow disconnect this powerpoint from the outside, and pull the electrical cable back through the wall-vent for use as a powerpoint from the inside of the house?

Writing this up now it makes it sound like a huge fire hazard, but i'd appreciate it if you could get back to me


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## Hairy Bob (Jul 29, 2009)

It is perfectly possible, but the fact that you have to ask suggests that maybe you aren't quite experienced enough to do the job yourself.
If you're going to do it, read up as much as you can on electrical safety before you start, I'd hate for you to get a nasty shock. 
Always turn off the breaker and make sure the socket has stopped working before you start disconnecting anything, and make sure you know which wire is which before you unscrew the terminals.
If at all possible get a trustworthy friend who knows about electrics to help, or do it for you.


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## Boulderheads (Jul 30, 2009)

Ok, so I think I have a pretty decent understanding of electrical currents and their properties. I have a switchable Sun System 1000watt ballast that can run on either 110 or 220. I understand that while the actual power consumption (watts) is unchanged from the current difference, the amount of amps the ballast uses is half on 220.(Makes perfect sense, double the current 1/2 the amps required). Point is... the only benefit of running 220 is drawing less amps on the ballast allowing for possibly more lights on a single circuit as long as you make sure not to overload by more then 75%. Can someone just verify if this is the only benefit to running 220 for a system such as this. Thanks in advance, such a great thread, glad people are trying to help in this area.


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## tat2ue (Jul 30, 2009)

That is basically the only advantage of 240v circuit in a grow room type set up. A lot of people believe that their power consumption and cost is cut in half...NOT TRUE!!!You will basically draw the same ammt of energy to fire up a 1000w light on a 120 or 240v circuit, just your amp load is reduced.


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## Hairy Bob (Jul 31, 2009)

Strictly speaking, the ballast will run slightly more efficiently at a higher voltage, as less current is passing through it. This makes it run slightly cooler and consumes slightly less electricity, although you are talking about pennies per week, it's by no means a reason to switch from 120 to 240, but if you have a spare 240 outlet and your ballast is designed to be able to run on it, you might as well utilise it, if only for the reason that the lights would be on a different circuit to the fans (and pumps if doing hydro) so if there was a problem with the lights and the breaker tripped, that would be the only thing that stopped working.


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## Boulderheads (Jul 31, 2009)

Hairy Bob said:


> Strictly speaking, the ballast will run slightly more efficiently at a higher voltage, as less current is passing through it. This makes it run slightly cooler and consumes slightly less electricity, although you are talking about pennies per week, it's by no means a reason to switch from 120 to 240, but if you have a spare 240 outlet and your ballast is designed to be able to run on it, you might as well utilise it, if only for the reason that the lights would be on a different circuit to the fans (and pumps if doing hydro) so if there was a problem with the lights and the breaker tripped, that would be the only thing that stopped working.


Thanks Bob, I thought that was the case. I ran a separate 20amp 110 circuit for my light and 3 fans. My ballast draws a little over 5 amps on 110. I have the ability to wire up a 220 circuit as my op is in my basement not even 10 feet from my panel. I would just have to order a separate power cord from Sunlight Systems. I thought it might run cooler, but if it is not significant, then I really don't see the benefit in running another circuit. Thanks for the great reply.


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## jus10pa2 (Jul 31, 2009)

i have a question....how many 25W (100W equal) CFLs can run from one 15 amp circut breaker.... my current set up is 3 clamp reflecters with spliters in each so 4 25W daylight CFL and 2 25W warm light cfl. i have about 3.5 ft2. Im sure i need more but i was just wundering how much could i put on that one circut without burning my place down.


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## joehank7 (Jul 31, 2009)

I really like that setup of how your ballasts are wired. Is that a mechanical timer box? Are you running 220 or 120? If 220, what size wire is going to your timer box, and what size breaker are you using? I would like to do the same thing with 4- 600w ballasts. I read what you said about no major advantage to running 220 over 120, but I am not sure which way to go on that


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## jberry (Jul 31, 2009)

hello i was wondering if you have ever heard of the power company reporting people to the law for using suspicious amounts of power? 

i know you may not know the answer to this ? but i didnt know where to ask without starting a new thread which i may still do.


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## nellyatcha (Jul 31, 2009)

i dont know i heard some people using them damn things where you can plug the socket right into an outlet and use them like that and i didnt believe it but its floatong around in one of the threads


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## nellyatcha (Jul 31, 2009)

jberry said:


> hello i was wondering if you have ever heard of the power company reporting people to the law for using suspicious amounts of power?
> 
> i know you may not know the answer to this ? but i didnt know where to ask without starting a new thread which i may still do.


 
yes they do if you use over a certain amount and if you steal it as well thne you screwed lol, they will investigate it first to see whats going on and they ,meter it first and see the increase if its over a certain about of hours and watts kwh


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## jberry (Jul 31, 2009)

nellyatcha said:


> yes they do if you use over a certain amount and if you steal it as well thne you screwed lol, they will investigate it first to see whats going on and they ,meter it first and see the increase if its over a certain about of hours and watts kwh


dont like the sound of that!!
do you think they bother reporting/ investigating in in states that give out medical marijuana growers certificates?
if they investigated and found that the occupant was a med. marijuana patient i wonder what they would do?

i would never try to steal power and im within my legal limits but my bill is so big that i know that i must be over that "certain amount" that you spoke of and im about to be using even more... hmmm u got me little worried.

could you throw a # out there??
how high do you think your bill has to be before they rat? $500? $2000? $3000?


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## Hairy Bob (Aug 1, 2009)

As long as you pay your bills you are just another good customer. If the police are investigating things and ask the power company what your usage is they have to tell them, but they are not going to rat you out to the cops just because you started using lots of their electricity and paying for it all, if they did that then people who run workshops in their garages, and perfectly legal horticulturalists such as yourself would be getting knocks on the door all the time.
There are far too many households using widely varying amounts of electricity for them to have somebody monitoring the consumption of every single person they supply power to, the only way you will raise suspicion is if you don't pay for it. 
If you're legal anyway, what are you worried about?


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## Hairy Bob (Aug 1, 2009)

jus10pa2 said:


> i have a question....how many 25W (100W equal) CFLs can run from one 15 amp circut breaker.... my current set up is 3 clamp reflecters with spliters in each so 4 25W daylight CFL and 2 25W warm light cfl. i have about 3.5 ft2. Im sure i need more but i was just wundering how much could i put on that one circut without burning my place down.


Lots. Power (W) is equal to voltage (V) multiplied by current (A). You have a 15 amp circuit, I'm assuming 110v, so 1650w available. Bear in mind thought that for continuous use you should stay below 80% of the breakers rated load, or 12a, meaning you have 1320w to play with, or 52 25w cfls.
Just make sure all the extensions, plugs, sockets etc. are rated for 15amp and your golden.


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## jus10pa2 (Aug 1, 2009)

awsome thnks man +rep for the info


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## jberry (Aug 1, 2009)

Hairy Bob said:


> As long as you pay your bills you are just another good customer. If the police are investigating things and ask the power company what your usage is they have to tell them, but they are not going to rat you out to the cops just because you started using lots of their electricity and paying for it all, if they did that then people who run workshops in their garages, and perfectly legal horticulturalists such as yourself would be getting knocks on the door all the time.
> There are far too many households using widely varying amounts of electricity for them to have somebody monitoring the consumption of every single person they supply power to, the only way you will raise suspicion is if you don't pay for it.
> If you're legal anyway, what are you worried about?


yeah your right, just paranoid i guess.
thanks for talking me down hahaha
i would +rep you for that, but i dont know how... i'll still do it if i figure it out .
thanks bud.


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## Hulk Nugs (Aug 6, 2009)

hey i am looking into getting some new lights for my veg room i was looking at this one 105W 6500K Mogul Base Compact Fluorescent Grow Lamp


What kind of Mogul would i need to screw this light in ??

Do they make a fixture for this kind of light 

I was trying to find this setup, i heard it was at homedepot.


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## Green Cross (Aug 6, 2009)

Hulk Nugs said:


> hey i am looking into getting some new lights for my veg room i was looking at this one 105W 6500K Mogul Base Compact Fluorescent Grow Lamp
> 
> 
> What kind of Mogul would i need to screw this light in ??
> ...


You just answered your own question. You need a Mogul socket


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## Hulk Nugs (Aug 6, 2009)

Green Cross said:


> You just answered your own question. You need a Mogul socket


yea i know man there are just a few of them out there and i was wondering witch one will go with the blub? are they all the same? will any of them work ?

Moguls


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## iloveit (Aug 6, 2009)

How can find out the maximum load without plugging in the lights & electrical equipment first (in case it blows)?

Im guessing check the circuit breakers load capacity & in that partion/section of the house calculate the amp of the fuses of the electrical equipment Ill use. Is this correct or am I missing something? Just preparing for my next grow op.


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## Hairy Bob (Aug 7, 2009)

All electrical equipment should have a label on it with the wattage, add the wattage of everything together and divide it by the voltage to get the current in amps.
As long as you are below 80% of the breakers rated load you are fine.


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## project23 (Aug 7, 2009)

i have a great apt with a good sized walk in closet and a landlord that lives out of town- ive seen him once in the 2 1/2 years ive been here and he has no intrest in the apartment as long as i pay rent on time(in other words he minds his own damn business- gotta love that) anyway im going to start a small scrog set up with 2-3 plants flowering and 3-4 bonasi mothers, but my breaker is only rated at 10. so my question is can i simply buy a new 15 amp breaker and swap them or does the wiring have to be changed all together?


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## Boulderheads (Aug 7, 2009)

You should be OK to do that, you will have to check the size wire coming off that breaker. I believe that a wire able to carry 10 amps will be able to handle 15. Just check the gauge wire to the breaker. Found this chart that should help

*Suggested Gauge   vs.  Breaker Amp  **
For Copper branch circuits and feeders.* _*Gauge*_ _*Breaker Amps*_ 14 15 12 20 10 30 8 40 6 55 4 70 2 95 1/0 150 2/0 175 3/0 200​


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## Boulderheads (Aug 7, 2009)

let me reformat that

Gauge Breaker
14 15amp
12 20amp
10 30amp
8 40amp
6 55amp
4 70amp
2 95amp



*NOTE:  *A heavier wire may be used than the size required, a lighter gauge can never be used. Extension cord wire, lamp wire or wire less than 14 gauge can not be used for any wiring.


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## project23 (Aug 7, 2009)

Boulderheads said:


> let me reformat that
> 
> Gauge Breaker
> 14 15amp
> ...


 thanks for the quick reply boulderheads!


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## RedEyeJedi619 (Aug 7, 2009)

Im rewiring my 120v to 240v ballast. I wondering what the second power supply inside the box for the 240v. There is a 277 and 208v. I have all the con rewired and i just need this last step. Any help please?


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## RedEyeJedi619 (Aug 7, 2009)

I just googled and maybe im actually getting this all wrong. I had an electrician friend come over and look at my ballast but he has never worked on ballast before. Anyways when i rewire it before he came over, i rewired 240v power chord the same as the 120 was except i changed out the 120v chord inside the ballast to the 240v. That was the only thing i did. Now when my friend came over, he said that i had the black chord going to the 240v chord inside the ballast correct, that i got the green ground chord correct but that the white chord does not go to the other white chords anymore. He said those are the neutral for the 120v and i needed to find the other power source. now there is another 208 and 277v inside the ballast. Does one of those go to the white cable in the power chord? But when i googled i read all some other guy did was change the 120v to 240 inside the ballast to the pwer chord and that was it, which is exactly what i did before my friend came over. He did no other rewiring. So im pretty much asking how do you rewire the dang ballast to 240v. Any help please. thnx


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## iloveit (Aug 7, 2009)

Hairy Bob said:


> All electrical equipment should have a label on it with the wattage, add the wattage of everything together and divide it by the voltage to get the current in amps.
> As long as you are below 80% of the breakers rated load you are fine.


Here in the U.K. are electrical device have a fuse within the plug (see link):

http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00cMvtFqosfubzM/British-Plug-with-Fuse-13A-.jpg)

Can the max load of the fuse be used as a better & accurate measurement?


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## Hairy Bob (Aug 8, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Here in the U.K. are electrical device have a fuse within the plug (see link):
> 
> http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00cMvtFqosfubzM/British-Plug-with-Fuse-13A-.jpg)
> 
> Can the max load of the fuse be used as a better & accurate measurement?


I'm in the UK, and no, the rating of the fuse is either 3, 5 or 13 amps and is not a good indicator of how much power the appliance it is attached to will use. If the appliance uses 6 amps, it will have a 13 amp fuse, if it pulls 0.1 amps, it will have a 3 amp fuse, so it can never give you more than an extremely rough indication. 
The way I described before is completely accurate, assuming the wattage stated on the label is correct.


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## iloveit (Aug 8, 2009)

Nice one Ill use your method from now on thanks mate.


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## tat2ue (Aug 9, 2009)

Simple, All you do is take the ballast cover off and connect your new 240 power cord as follows. put the black wire from new 240v power cord to the lead that is labled 240volts in the ballast. Put the white wire from the new 240 poewr cord to the same white wire that the old power cord was attached to. This is your common. Attach the green ground wire from the new 240 power cord to the green ground wire that the old cord was attached to. Thats it. Also make sure that either wirenut or clip the bare wires from the 120v power lead that you are no longer using and put some electrical tape over the end.




RedEyeJedi619 said:


> I just googled and maybe im actually getting this all wrong. I had an electrician friend come over and look at my ballast but he has never worked on ballast before. Anyways when i rewire it before he came over, i rewired 240v power chord the same as the 120 was except i changed out the 120v chord inside the ballast to the 240v. That was the only thing i did. Now when my friend came over, he said that i had the black chord going to the 240v chord inside the ballast correct, that i got the green ground chord correct but that the white chord does not go to the other white chords anymore. He said those are the neutral for the 120v and i needed to find the other power source. now there is another 208 and 277v inside the ballast. Does one of those go to the white cable in the power chord? But when i googled i read all some other guy did was change the 120v to 240 inside the ballast to the pwer chord and that was it, which is exactly what i did before my friend came over. He did no other rewiring. So im pretty much asking how do you rewire the dang ballast to 240v. Any help please. thnx


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## tat2ue (Aug 9, 2009)

H.Bob. I greatly appreciate the help on my room. Here are the pics I said I would send. I moved the four 1000w ballast outside the room and dropped the cord sets thru the ceiling, but instead of hard wiring them to the cool tubes I ran them to receptical in the ceiling and hard wired the cool tube to male plugs that just plug into the recepticals . This makes it easier to take the cool tube out to clean them or change bulbs ect.


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## morphus657 (Aug 10, 2009)

does any one know how to make a 30 or 50 amp timer box ???


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 10, 2009)

morphus657 said:


> does any one know how to make a 30 or 50 amp timer box ???


Me? I'd just use properly rated contactors (relays)


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## jamaster3 (Aug 14, 2009)

Alright, so I have question... Just moved into a new house (renting) and am having trouble with power. I am using a large walk in closet that is located in the master bedroom, but the problem is the entire bedroom(including the bathroom) is on 1 15a breaker. I have an unused 30a dryer plug located down stairs on the other side of the house. By the design of the house, it would be possible to run a wire (not sure if it would be safe, that is one of the questions) outside right on the edge of the house and then up into the attic which runs over above the closet. The dryer plug has a red, white, black and bare wire. Would I be able to wire that to a sub panel in the closet? If so, what would I need to do to make that work? I would like to be able to power 2 1000w setups on it at least. I can use the master bedroom circuit to power the fans and accessories if need be, but would like to avoid that if possible. I am also thinking about running a portable a/c. Is that going to be too much stuff for the circuit? The main panel also has 200a of service. I think that is basically everything. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!


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## MagicA (Aug 14, 2009)

Got a question for you too 

I have a couple of 600w digital ballasts (brand is welthink) and they have the mounting brackets on them. Actually here is a LINK to an image of the actual ballast.

Can I mount these in my basement on the wood that forms the "floor" of my kitchen? My basement is unfinished and I was hoping I could mount these two above my tent screwed directly into the wood? I guess that the "fins" on the ballast would then point down.

I don't really want to lay them on the floor and the majority of the walls are just concrete with a little wood towards the top.

Any help greatly appreciated!


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## iloveit (Aug 14, 2009)

My circuit box consist of 6 circuit breakers the order in which its fitted on the box is as follow: 6A/6A/6A/32A/32A/32A.
If one of the "6A" circuit breakers is connected to the part of my house where my grow op is located could I simply exchange a "32A" in place of a "6A" to gain more amp alowing me to use more lights without triggering the switch?


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## morphus657 (Aug 14, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Me? I'd just use properly rated contactors (relays)


any way u can show me how ?or what i whould need to pick up at lowsor home depo


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 14, 2009)

morphus657 said:


> any way u can show me how ?or what i whould need to pick up at lowsor home depo


Lowes and HD don't have them. Electrical supply house should (industrial not residential. The elec house by me look at me funny everytime I go in there for something)


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 14, 2009)

iloveit said:


> My circuit box consist of 6 circuit breakers the order in which its fitted on the box is as follow: 6A/6A/6A/32A/32A/32A.
> If one of the "6A" circuit breakers is connected to the part of my house where my grow op is located could I simply exchange a "32A" in place of a "6A" to gain more amp alowing me to use more lights without triggering the switch?


If you want to take out a 6A breaker and toss in a 32a breaker, then NO! the wiring will melt the insulation then short out. 
Breakers are to protect the wiring, not the end device.


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## iloveit (Aug 15, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> If you want to take out a 6A breaker and toss in a 32a breaker, then NO! the wiring will melt the insulation then short out.
> Breakers are to protect the wiring, not the end device.


Is there any way around it or would I need a qualified electrician to rewire the line?


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## UNHALLOWED (Aug 15, 2009)

tat2ue said:


> H.Bob. I greatly appreciate the help on my room. Here are the pics I said I would send. I moved the four 1000w ballast outside the room and dropped the cord sets thru the ceiling, but instead of hard wiring them to the cool tubes I ran them to receptical in the ceiling and hard wired the cool tube to male plugs that just plug into the recepticals . This makes it easier to take the cool tube out to clean them or change bulbs ect.


Dammmnnn.... I really like that. Ultra tight and clean.


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 15, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Is there any way around it or would I need a qualified electrician to rewire the line?


A new line will need to be run, sorry.


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## ir0nma1den (Aug 15, 2009)

How can I connect these 3 LEDs with 2 fans so that they are all on 1 plug?


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## Green Cross (Aug 15, 2009)

Does a DIY florescent fixture (metal) really need to be grounded? I used a 2 prong cord when I built here; is polarized good enough?


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## pagen (Aug 15, 2009)

I have been using cfls and just got my hps bulbs two 250 watt with I guess a mougel socket. the bulbs say to use a ansi S50 ballast. will that run two 250s safely if so how do I wire it for the two bulbs?


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## iloveit (Aug 15, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> A new line will need to be run, sorry.


No need to apologise, thanks for your help.


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## RyAnRioT (Aug 15, 2009)

i think it is good


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 15, 2009)

Green Cross said:


> Does a DIY florescent fixture (metal) really need to be grounded? I used a 2 prong cord when I built here; is polarized good enough?


Grounding is *usually* for safety reasons. (some devices need the ground ref to operate correctly)

You should be fine with just the hot & neutral for a CFL.


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 15, 2009)

pagen said:


> I have been using cfls and just got my hps bulbs two 250 watt with I guess a mougel socket. the bulbs say to use a ansi S50 ballast. will that run two 250s safely if so how do I wire it for the two bulbs?


2 250W HPS ballasts.


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## MagicA (Aug 15, 2009)

Any ideas on if you can attach a 600w digital ballast to wood in your house or how are you supposed to mount them?


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 16, 2009)

MagicA said:


> Any ideas on if you can attach a 600w digital ballast to wood in your house or how are you supposed to mount them?


I doubt they get hot enough to set fire to the wood, but I'd hang it or give it a bit of space. How you mounting? wall? ceiling?


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## MagicA (Aug 16, 2009)

Unfinished basement on the ceiling. I was going to screw them to the rafters not sure how else to hang them?


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 16, 2009)

MagicA said:


> Unfinished basement on the ceiling. I was going to screw them to the rafters not sure how else to hang them?


My ballast has a carry handle with keyholes in the handle.

But barring that, go to lowes or HD and grab some plumbing strapping. It looks like steel or copper tape with holes in it. About 1 inch/25mm wide and hole spacing of about 1inch/25mm. 2 loops from a joist should suffice nicely.


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## jberry (Aug 16, 2009)

do you know anything about the duel 600 watt ballast? it runs two 600's off one ballast (240)

do you know of any disadvantage when using the duel vs. the single?

i think they duel uses less power? (5.5 amps), but do they work as well as two singles?

i thought a electrician would have a valued opinion here... 
thanks for any advise you may have for me.


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## Chicano04 (Aug 16, 2009)

*
bricktown73

Would this work 1 ext. cord The long two prong white ones from the dollar store with 3 light sockets tied in all together (kind of like house xmas lights are), with Three 26 watt cfl soft white and one 42 watt cfl soft white.And one of the **26 watt cfl would be tied** in with the 42 watt with a Y. Would this work?
 
*


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 17, 2009)

jberry said:


> do you know anything about the duel 600 watt ballast? it runs two 600's off one ballast (240)
> 
> do you know of any disadvantage when using the duel vs. the single?
> 
> ...


I haven't opened one p, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that its just 2 ballasts stuffed into a single box. If thats so, no power savings.


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## down6under (Aug 17, 2009)

Dumb question.

I bought a 30 watt soldering iron and some rosin core. If I solder my 150w ballast and bulb together with it, it won't get so hot to melt the solder while running? I don't want to find out with a fire.


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 18, 2009)

down6under said:


> Dumb question.
> 
> I bought a 30 watt soldering iron and some rosin core. If I solder my 150w ballast and bulb together with it, it won't get so hot to melt the solder while running? I don't want to find out with a fire.


Why are you soldering it? Just use wire nuts.
(I think solder, typically ,has a melting point of about 400-450F)
You weren't going to solder directly to the bulb?


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## dragun (Aug 18, 2009)

how many amps can an average house handle.newer houses seem to have 200 amp breaker boxes.can the main line handle 400amps?can i add a secound 200 amp box?


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 18, 2009)

dragun said:


> how many amps can an average house handle.newer houses seem to have 200 amp breaker boxes.can the main line handle 400amps?can i add a secound 200 amp box?


Thats for your electrician to answer. Probably going to require a permit and/or inspection depending on where you are at.
(Supposedly in my town, you need a permit to install a ceiling fan, but I haven't verified that)


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## Karloff (Aug 18, 2009)

I'm an electrician and this thread scares the crap out of me and I've been a working electrician for over twenty years and in those twenty years I've done alot of fire jobs where homeowners watched two episodes of This Old House and half a season of Hometime and tried to do their own wiring it's never a pretty thing.
To all of you I just want to say hire someone who knows what they're doing it never ceases to amaze me how people can take their single highest investment "their home" and just rig up some half assed gadjet they bought from a rummage sale.
One post I saw this the guy who started this thread tell a guy to use 12 guage wire to extend a dryer circuit, dryer circuits are usuually 10 guage wire which carries 30 amps. of current at 240 volts 12 guage wire is only rated for 20 amps not too mention the breaker is also a 30 amp breaker too high for the 12 guage wire.
And I agree with riznob 10000 this thread should be closed before one of you gets hurt or worse twenty years has taught me to respect electricity, you can't see it but you sure can feel it when it bites you.
And just for the record wire nuts alone don't make a good splice splices have to be tight a loose splice has the potential to cause a fire the arc created by a loose splice can reach temperatures close to that of the sun.
I've seen wire nuts melted to the core. 
And if your a renter you have no business making electrical changes to a home that's not your own.


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 18, 2009)

I cringe every time I use a wire nut. But most of my work in in industral machinery where they aren't use (at least the one I work on).

But they are common place, easy to use, and considered safe by government agencies.

(how many people read the temp rating on the wire insulation to see if its ok for the application?)


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## riznob10000 (Aug 19, 2009)

Karloff said:


> I'm an electrician and this thread scares the crap out of me and I've been a working electrician for over twenty years and in those twenty years I've done alot of fire jobs where homeowners watched two episodes of This Old House and half a season of Hometime and tried to do their own wiring it's never a pretty thing.
> To all of you I just want to say hire someone who knows what they're doing it never ceases to amaze me how people can take their single highest investment "their home" and just rig up some half assed gadjet they bought from a rummage sale.
> One post I saw this the guy who started this thread tell a guy to use 12 guage wire to extend a dryer circuit, dryer circuits are usuually 10 guage wire which carries 30 amps. of current at 240 volts 12 guage wire is only rated for 20 amps not too mention the breaker is also a 30 amp breaker too high for the 12 guage wire.
> And I agree with riznob 10000 this thread should be closed before one of you gets hurt or worse twenty years has taught me to respect electricity, you can't see it but you sure can feel it when it bites you.
> ...


.....................


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## mjr99 (Aug 19, 2009)

Man, i fucked up bad,can someone please help me? I was cutting a hole in the ceiling for my exhaust and i hit a main breaker wire that casued the circuit to trip. I inspected the wire and eveything but i just dont know. I reset the circuit and checked all the outlets and they still worked. The wire didnt seem too damaged but i cant talk myself into running 1000 watts through it. Anyways, for now my plants are in the dark until i figure out what to do. Since the wire is still functional can i just wrap it with a bunch of electrical tape? DO i risk fire doing this? My problem is that im not in the least bit a diy guy and i dont know any electricians that are cool that i could trust. What should i do? I have access to where the wire was cut, how difficult is a repair job? thanks.


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## Jagerwiser (Aug 20, 2009)

ok before i even attempt this i should ask if i can even do it. on the back of the computer where the actual comp cord goes,inside of my pc grow box i unscrewed and took out that entire compartment and clipped the wires.now can i take those wires and connect them to my light fixture,so that when i plug in they will turn on?


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## Karloff (Aug 21, 2009)

The repair is simple but you should make sure that the circuit is off before making the repair you'll need two nailon 1 gang plastic boxes, 6 wirenuts a short piece of the same size romex assuming it is that type of wire and not the armored BX or MC type of wire and two single gang blank plates.
But lets assume its a non metallic sheathed cable or romex type that you damaged, next you need to cut the wire at the break again assuming that you nicked the wire and carefully remove any staples if you have the headspace in the attic nail on one of the plastic boxes to the rafter closest to the damaged or cut wire then strip the outer jacket back exposing about 6-8" of wire and put it into the box there will be an opening or place to make an opening on the box, next strip some new wire enough to work with inside the box at this point splice the grounds twisting the wires in a clockwise rotation cap with a wire nut and fold away then splice the the two whites again twisting in a clockwise rotation and again use a wire nut to cover any exposed wire and again fold the splice into the nailon box and repeat with the black wires and install a blank plate to cover the opening in the box then run the end of the new wire to the other end of the damaged wire strip back the outer covering like you did on the first junction box and insert the stripped wire into the second junction box and just splice the wires color for color making sure you make all your connections or splices as tight as possible.
If you don't have the parts you can get them for under ten dollars at Home Depot or Lowes the only thing that might cost you more is the romex as wire prices fluxuate with the market also don't be confused by the new color coding on the outer jacket of the cable they made it easier to tell wire size now white is 14 guage or AWG. thats good for 15 amp circuits and Yellow is for 12 guage or AWG wire and this only pertains to the outer jacket I'm told it was done for lazy inspecters so they wouldn't have to bend over to read the writing on the cable lol.
Here's a site I found that has some detailed instructions on how to make the repair.
http://www.do-it-yourself-help.com/wiresplicing.html
I hope this helps the repair is alot simpler than it sounds and if I were doing it it would take me about 5 minutes, but since your new to it I would say no more than 10-20 mins.
One last bit of advise if yo make the splices downstairs away from the heat you can stuff the repaired wires and the boxes up through the hole it will help to get you out of the attic quicker, hot attics suck in the summer but don't forget to go up there and nail off the boxes.


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## Karloff (Aug 21, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Why are you soldering it? Just use wire nuts.
> (I think solder, typically ,has a melting point of about 400-450F)
> You weren't going to solder directly to the bulb?


 
Just as a note soldered connections are a violation of the national electric code as all connections have to be reversable.
I forget which section its in but its there.
I'm guessing he has what I would call a ballast repair kit transformer,starter and capaciter usually ment for a wallpack fixture the type you see mounted to a wall outside a building I've seen alot of pictures on here of these types of kits that are being used not what I would want in my home not to mention they're a major pain in the ass to install.


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## ForbiddenFruit (Aug 22, 2009)

Question:

My garage has a 20amp circuit available to it (this is the location of my tomato growing room). 

I would like to have THAT entire circuit for my fans, A/C, heater, pumps, etc... since there will be a lot of small things needing to be plugged in. 

So...

In order to do this I have to power my 2 (1000w) lamps from another source. 

My laundry room is right next to my garage and it has a 20amp circuit with nothing on it besides my washer (I would use the washer only during the 4-6 hours of "darkness" in my room). I would have to run a 12g 25' extension cord to power ONE light from that room/circuit. I am thinking that running both lights from that room would be pushing it, since I would be over the recommended 80% on the available amps on this circuit, but if i could run them both from here, then that would be great. Could I? 

If not then I would run another from a nearby room that has a 15amp circuit (dont use much in this room either so it would be pretty much dedicated to ONE 1000w light as well). 

*Basically... is there a fire hazard if I run a 25' 12g extension cord from the adjacent rooms to power my lamps? * Nothing else on these circuits other than the lamp(s). 

another alternative might be to use the circuit in my garage that is set up for the (regular) lighting, but maybe the wiring on the standard fluorescents that are already there are not good enough? That is on a 15amp circuit, btw. 

Now I know it would be best to simply add a couple of 20amp circuits to the garage itself, but to have an electrician come out and set me up would probably cost 100's and 100's of dollars that I DONT have. However, if my alternative is not safe, then I will wait until I do have enough OR maybe attempt to do it myself (I have SOME basic electrical/appliance work under my belt (albeit it 2 decades ago). 

Thanks in advance....


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## tat2ue (Aug 22, 2009)

You would be going over and beyond the limit on a 20 amp circuit imo. If your tomato room is in the area of the garage is it possible that you have a 240v./30 amp circuit avail. If not would it be possible to run one and switch your ballast to 240?? My tomoato room is in the same area and I run 4 x 1000w on a dedicated 240v/30amp circuit with my ballast rewired for 240v. and the entire circuit is drawing 18-19 amps. But as far as your cost vs. the saftey of your home and family I would want to go the safest route possible and hire the electrician and not worry about coming home to a pile of ashes.



ForbiddenFruit said:


> Question:
> 
> My garage has a 20amp circuit available to it (this is the location of my tomato growing room).
> 
> ...


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## Wohjew (Aug 22, 2009)

hi i have a question my 1000w MH is on a 15amp cir. where it plugs into the timer gets hot during use . whats the problem thats making it hot , heres pic, thanks if you can help me. everything else plugged in in not being used other than the watersoftener and the odd load of laundry


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## ForbiddenFruit (Aug 22, 2009)

tat2ue said:


> You would be going over and beyond the limit on a 20 amp circuit imo. If your tomato room is in the area of the garage is it possible that you have a 240v./30 amp circuit avail. If not would it be possible to run one and switch your ballast to 240?? My tomoato room is in the same area and I run 4 x 1000w on a dedicated 240v/30amp circuit with my ballast rewired for 240v. and the entire circuit is drawing 18-19 amps. But as far as your cost vs. the saftey of your home and family I would want to go the safest route possible and hire the electrician and not worry about coming home to a pile of ashes.


Yeah? Over and beyond on a 20amp if I have just ONE 1000w light on it? 

I also have a 240 in my laundry room for my drier and it is only about 20' from my grow room. Is there some way an electrician can just pull from that and set me up with a 240 plug in my room? Even if it is on the same circuit, I could make sure to ONLY use the drier during "lights off". That might be cheaper than having him run me a whole new line and set up a new circuit, since the box is clear on the other side of my house (quite a long distance).

Also, I just figured out that I have a dedicated 20amp circuit for my garage doors. One of my garage doors is not even plugged in and the other is a 6amp draw. So I pretty much have 2x20amp circuits to play with in my garage. I think one more OR a 30amp 240 would be all I would need. Eventually I may upgrade to 4x1000w lights as well, just like you have. Sound about right to you? My 2x20amps and if I can get another 20amp OR maybe a 30amp. 

btw - I just ordered my ballasts. Already sent, but they are (Lumatek) 120's. I read somewhere (maybe in this thread) that you can open it up and switch it out. Is that easy enough to do? If not, then I guess I can send them back and have the guy swap them for 240's. 

thank you very much


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## tat2ue (Aug 23, 2009)

My bad brother, I thought you were running both 1000w lights on that 120 circuit. Doing that is fire starter for sure due to both lamps drawing a total of 18-19 amps not counting the strike up surge if it were a standard magnetic ballast.

I don't think an electrician will tap into a dedicated circuit for the dryer run to set up an add'l drop for a 240v run because if I am not mistaken that is aginst code due to the amp draw of the dryer.

Don't know the specifics on Lumatek ballasts as far as converting them to 240. Some simply need a different power cord that plugs in and converts it to 240 and others need to be opened up and hardwired to 240. Mine are just standard 1000w magnetic tap ballasts and I converted them myself to 240v...not hard at all.





ForbiddenFruit said:


> Yeah? Over and beyond on a 20amp if I have just ONE 1000w light on it?
> 
> I also have a 240 in my laundry room for my drier and it is only about 20' from my grow room. Is there some way an electrician can just pull from that and set me up with a 240 plug in my room? Even if it is on the same circuit, I could make sure to ONLY use the drier during "lights off". That might be cheaper than having him run me a whole new line and set up a new circuit, since the box is clear on the other side of my house (quite a long distance).
> 
> ...


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## RedEyedRaver (Aug 25, 2009)

Hi i was wondering what would happen if i put a 400w hps bulb on a 600w ballast? Cheerz


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## Karloff (Aug 25, 2009)

Wohjew said:


> hi i have a question my 1000w MH is on a 15amp cir. where it plugs into the timer gets hot during use . whats the problem thats making it hot , heres pic, thanks if you can help me. everything else plugged in in not being used other than the watersoftener and the odd load of laundry


I know you don't want to hear this but your setup is not good the second picture is scary the extension cord looks like a home depot cheapie now I'm just guessing but it looks like an 18 guage cord I don't know what amperage your pulling but the small size of the wire could be the cause or the timer you're using might be a problem you have to check the capacity of the timer and make sure it can handle the amps your pulling.
Also the wires need to be secured you can't expect the ground wire tied to the bracket to hold the cord and the wire feeding the light fixture the black one needs to be secured as well, and the ballast looks like it's flush against the wooden support and the capaciter shouldn't be hanging either in fact your whole set up is dangerous and a fire/electrocution hazard your a fire waiting to happen.
And before you just shrug off what I'm saying I'll tell you this I'm an electrician so I'm not talking out of my ass.
There are dozens of proper enclosed ballasts built for mounting on wood or other support means, I know theyre not cheap but do you really want to hurt yourself or your family just to get a buzz?
I know alot of people on here are doing just what your doing but it doesn't make it right I don't know if you own the house or rent but if you own it don't you think you should show more care.
I understand wanting to do it as cheaply as possible but you have to cincider the potential here burning down the house.
Just bear in mind if you do have a fire your insurance company will use this to get out of paying the claim and you could be arrested and god forbid someone got hurt or killed your looking at manslaughter charges at the very least.
Do yourself a favor and have an electrician run a new circuit maybe a 20 amp circuit maybe two and give piece of mind.
And buy a good timer one rated for what your using you can get them at Lowes or home depot or better yet look into CFL's they run cool and don't make the meter spin you can get a nice set at Stealth Hydro here's the link just check it out.
http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/section.php?xSec=40


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## Karloff (Aug 25, 2009)

RedEyedRaver said:


> Hi i was wondering what would happen if i put a 400w hps bulb on a 600w ballast? Cheerz


A 600 watt ballast is designed to run up to a 600 watt fixture so a 400 watt fixture would run fine on it as it will only draw 400 watts it might run a little cooler and you might get some extra life out of it.
It's not a bad thing to oversize the ballast but it would be a bad thing to oversize the bulb.
Good luck with your grow.


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## nikk (Aug 25, 2009)

karloff can i use any 150 watt mh bulb in my ballast,it has to have a mogul socket tho


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## Karloff (Aug 25, 2009)

Marijuana Toker
*Marijuana Toker*




*Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 124 






























*​
permalink
karloff can i use any 150 watt mh bulb in my ballast,it has to have a mogul socket tho 



Well without seeing the fixture it would be hard to say, but the mogul base is a large screw in base it's like your standard light bulb but larger.
As far as things go the bulb has to fit into the socket and tightly if you put it in loose it will arc and damage the socket.
As far as using any 150 watt MH bulb goes if you mean manufacturer it doesn't matter as long as you match the type of bulb to the ballast there are fixtures and ballasts that allow you to use say a HPS in a MH fixture but the bulbs are higher in price.
Also I've seen HPS and Mh bulbs sold online at hydro stores that they say are for growing plants although I don't know if they really make a difference I would imagine that type of bulb might be keyed in better to produce a better color light one that will produce better results.
But I should tell you my experience with these bulbs are limited to say using them to illuminate parking lots and as far as MH goes I've installed them in commercial buildings a useless fact car dealers use them because they make the paint jobs on the cars standout better that little bit of info is useless for your purpose.
Please excuse the length of this reply I wasn't sure what you were asking and am trying to give you a broad answer on a variety of issues I've noticed the preffered bulb on here seems to be the HPS bulb for veg and bloom I'm guessing it's because the HPS seems to do a better job during the all important bloom cycle if your shopping around and have limited funds in other words you can only afford one fixture I would go with HPS the users on here swear by them as for me I prefer CFL's because they run cooler but I think your choice should be yours I would check out some of the grow journals you'll see the HPS fixtures seem to be the choice of growers.
I hope this helps if I haven't answered your question correctly post another and I'll check back.
One last thing both HPS and Mh are available in mogul base but I'm not sure if that is true at only 150 watts bulbs you could go to your local electric supply house but beware they have been known to charge homeowners more than contracters for parts you'll have to shop around the more I think about it at 150 watts the base might be the standard Edison base socket but they do sell a conversion fitting that steps allows you to either go from an Edison base (standard light bulb base like in your home) to a Mogul base it's a simple screw on adapter if that's what your looking for try this link:
http://www.amazon.com/Cooper-Wiring-Socket-Reducer-332-BOX/dp/B000KKLP0O/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1251251793&sr=8-4


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## nikk (Aug 26, 2009)

Karloff said:


> Marijuana Toker
> *Marijuana Toker*
> 
> 
> ...


well the fixture is mogul base,the ballast is a digital one that sits atop the reflector,i bought it on ebay,the people who sold it to me said that it also runs metal hilide bulbs i think they said it was an EYE bulb,and on the ballast it says for both hps and mh,but its pretty hard to find a eye bulb,so i was basically asking if i needed to use a conversion bulb or could i use just a regular 150 watt metal halide bulb...this is the system right here............http://shop.ebay.com/sis.html?ssPageName=VINS:SIM&_kw=150+WATT+HPS+DIGITAL+GROW+LIGHT+XL+HOOD+150w+SUN+SYSTEM&_fis=2&_id=230365985942&_isid=0&_sibeleafcat=42225,i just bought this to suppliment my veg room,im also a cfl warrior like yourself,but i needed something more...lol,any ways take a look at that oe for me and tell me what you think i should do....keep in mind that the system is already bought...thanks

edit,sorry it just takes you to the choices here is the system right here...150 WATT HPS DIGITAL GROW LIGHT XL HOOD 150w SUN SYSTEM - eBay (item 230365985942 end time Aug-16-09 20:14:01 PDT)


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## Karloff (Aug 26, 2009)

nikk said:


> well the fixture is mogul base,the ballast is a digital one that sits atop the reflector,i bought it on ebay,the people who sold it to me said that it also runs metal hilide bulbs i think they said it was an EYE bulb,and on the ballast it says for both hps and mh,but its pretty hard to find a eye bulb,so i was basically asking if i needed to use a conversion bulb or could i use just a regular 150 watt metal halide bulb...this is the system right here............http://shop.ebay.com/sis.html?ssPageName=VINS:SIM&_kw=150+WATT+HPS+DIGITAL+GROW+LIGHT+XL+HOOD+150w+SUN+SYSTEM&_fis=2&_id=230365985942&_isid=0&_sibeleafcat=42225,i just bought this to suppliment my veg room,im also a cfl warrior like yourself,but i needed something more...lol,any ways take a look at that oe for me and tell me what you think i should do....keep in mind that the system is already bought...thanks
> 
> edit,sorry it just takes you to the choices here is the system right here...150 WATT HPS DIGITAL GROW LIGHT XL HOOD 150w SUN SYSTEM - eBay (item 230365985942 end time Aug-16-09 20:14:01 PDT)


Ok I looked up the fixture and yes you can use the MH bulb but you'll need the proper reducer here is a link to the reducer it should be all you need for the veg growth phase.
just use the HPS bulb later for the Bloom cycle.
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-8681-Socket-Adapter-000-8681/dp/B000K2EJSM/ref=pd_cp_hi_0

All you have to do is screw it into the mogul baes socket you have then screw in the MH bulb being careful not to get finger prints on the bulb as the oils on your finger tips can cause a hot spot which could cause the bulb to explode the part is $2.25 plus shipping if you can't wait for shipping yo should be able to get one from a local electrical supply house just look one up in the phone book or online and you should be good to go.
On a side note the grows that I've followed on here most use a 400 watt fixture and quite a few use the HPS for the entire grow and alot use CFL's for the veg cycle then HPS for the bloom I would try to check some of the grows out and see if it is worth the extra money for the MH bulb but if your set on this path buy the adapter and have at it.
Good luck let me know how it worked out.
Thanks... Bill


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## nikk (Aug 26, 2009)

Karloff said:


> Ok I looked up the fixture and yes you can use the MH bulb but you'll need the proper reducer here is a link to the reducer it should be all you need for the veg growth phase.
> just use the HPS bulb later for the Bloom cycle.
> http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-8681-Socket-Adapter-000-8681/dp/B000K2EJSM/ref=pd_cp_hi_0
> 
> ...


i understand,but what i was asking was if i can basically use any metal halide bulb with a mogul socket in the ballast,as long as its rated 150 watt?
oh and p.s i have like 500 watts of cfl's that used for my last grow,this is supplimental light...thanks


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## slewy (Aug 26, 2009)

hey i got a chance to pick up a 1500w mh bulb on an average 16 hour on 8 hour off day how much will power will it take


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## jerkin247 (Aug 26, 2009)

i have a t5 lighting fixture as seen in the pics. it doesnt have an external plug for into a socket. is there a way to install one? and are these phillips alto t5 light going to be good for growing maro


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## jerkin247 (Aug 26, 2009)

i have this t5 lighting fixture as seen in the pics. it doesnt have an external plug for into a socket. is there a way to install one? and are these phillips alto t5 bulbs going to be good for growing maro clones?

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8059/p1011038.jpg
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/2937/p1011039.jpg
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2352/p1011040.jpg
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1480/p1011041.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2066/p1011042.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2353/p1011043.jpg
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/6577/p1011044.jpg


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## Karloff (Aug 26, 2009)

nikk said:


> i understand,but what i was asking was if i can basically use any metal halide bulb with a mogul socket in the ballast,as long as its rated 150 watt?
> oh and p.s i have like 500 watts of cfl's that used for my last grow,this is supplimental light...thanks


If you can find one at the 150 watts the answer is yes but don't go over the ballast's wattage rating. 
Don't try to push it over 150 watts if that is all the ballast is rated for.
I tried to check out some bulbs online and found most have a medium base that's why I said you need the converter fitting the only thing else I would say is to make sure that you get the right Kelvin or color bulb somewhere in the 2700-2900 range as MH is for vegging as you probably know also don't assume the color is right make sure it's in the right range because they vary in color a quick google search turned this up as an example: http://www.1000bulbs.com/150-Watt-Metal-Halide-Light-Bulbs/
The last 2 bulbs at the bottom of the page are near the right color but the first one is a coated bulb like a white coating the one below is a clear bulb but the color or Kelvin rating is 3000K I'm not sure if that would be in the right color spectrum for that question you might want to search out a Mh lighting link and ask one of the moderators about the coating as the coated one is 2900K.
I don't know if you allready have a bulb or not but finding one in the right color might be difficult.
Good Luck and I hope it all works out for you.


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## Karloff (Aug 26, 2009)

jerkin247 said:


> i have this t5 lighting fixture as seen in the pics. it doesnt have an external plug for into a socket. is there a way to install one? and are these phillips alto t5 bulbs going to be good for growing maro clones?
> 
> http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8059/p1011038.jpg
> http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/2937/p1011039.jpg
> ...


You can use the fixture as long as you install a plug and cord they don't draw much amps. but the tubes depending on the color might be a problem I found a pair of GE Ecolux 32 watt 48" tubes 6500K for $6.99 at Lowes which I'm going to use in a 2 tube fixture for flowering and some CFL's to fill in in my grow cab for the veg cycle you need 2700K color also while the tubes will fit into the fixture read the info on the ballast to make sure you can run the t8 tubes if your not sure you can get a two tube shop light or 2 at walmart for $15.99 each they use an electronic ballast if you carefully remove the ballast cover you can take a couple pieces of scrap wood and screw up the 2 fixtures side by side to get 4 of the ho tubes.
As far as wiring the existing fixture you can get a regular orange extension cord 18 guage or 16 guage and a metal set screw romex connector install the romex connector into one ot the 1/2" knock outs tightening down the lock nut then strip the outer casing of the extension cord about 8" or so you'll see a black wire, a white wire and a green wire that is the ground use a forked compression connector and crimp it onto the ground wire after you strip a 1/2" of the insulation then take a nut and bolt through one of the screw holes in the fixture body, next take the white wire from the ext. cord strip about 3/4" of the insulation off it and connect it to the white wire coming from the ballast after that do the same thing to the black wire from the ext. cord and connect it to the black wire on the ballast next install the ballast cover and use some jack chain to hang it bulb her up and plug her in and your in business just remember to lower the fixture as close to the plants as possible a good rule of thumb is to hold your hand near the tubes and find a comfortable distance I keep my 2 tube about a 2 inches above the tops of my plants and I fill in light by using some compact Fluroescents in some cheap clamp on work lights with a "Y" bulb splitter that allows me to use two bulbs per fixture the "Y" splitter can be found in most Lowes and Home Depots for about $3.50 each the romex connectors are sold in bags of ten for about a dollar or two at the same stores the bulbs are usually found there as well 2700K for the veg cycle and 6500K for the flowering cycle.
and they vary in price make sure you read the labels and see which ones to use.Here's a link to a great tutorial on CFL lights.
https://www.rollitup.org/cfl-growing/202718-cfl-tutorial.html

Good luck I hope I answered your question wiring the fixture takes about 2-5 minutes for a pro maybe 10 minutes for a regular guy with limited experience so it's not hard at all PS. I forgot to mention the wire nuts try yellow or tan wire nuts the tans really grab well you might be able to get away with orange wire nuts just make sure no exposed copper is showing.


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## Karloff (Aug 26, 2009)

slewy said:


> hey i got a chance to pick up a 1500w mh bulb on an average 16 hour on 8 hour off day how much will power will it take


1500 watts per hour times what ever your electric company charges you per kilowatt hour a kilowatt is 1000 watts so 1500watts would be 1.5 KW or Kilo watts, you'll have to do the math 16 hours times 1.5 Kw would be 24 Kw a day so 24 times what ever they charge you the rate is usually on your electric bill.

Good Luck and happy growing


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## nikk (Aug 26, 2009)

Karloff said:


> If you can find one at the 150 watts the answer is yes but don't go over the ballast's wattage rating.
> Don't try to push it over 150 watts if that is all the ballast is rated for.
> I tried to check out some bulbs online and found most have a medium base that's why I said you need the converter fitting the only thing else I would say is to make sure that you get the right Kelvin or color bulb somewhere in the 2700-2900 range as MH is for vegging as you probably know also don't assume the color is right make sure it's in the right range because they vary in color a quick google search turned this up as an example: http://www.1000bulbs.com/150-Watt-Metal-Halide-Light-Bulbs/
> The last 2 bulbs at the bottom of the page are near the right color but the first one is a coated bulb like a white coating the one below is a clear bulb but the color or Kelvin rating is 3000K I'm not sure if that would be in the right color spectrum for that question you might want to search out a Mh lighting link and ask one of the moderators about the coating as the coated one is 2900K.
> ...


thanks karloff,you see that link you gave me,look at the very first light,it has the right color spectrum i need,can i use that exact one?


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## Hogdady (Aug 26, 2009)

Karloff said:


> so 24 times what ever they charge you the rate is usually on your electric bill.


not to mention that if you go over your baseline the kwh unit price doubles!


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## Lifted1 (Aug 26, 2009)

Hey bricktown,

i put a panel in and ran 220 by skipping each on dual breakers. so i've got 220 for each 2 plugs. well now i'm putting in my lights and realize that i would have to have a separate timer for every lite. i had a few but i forgot they were 110 so now they are no good. lol dooooooooo!

so how can i fix this without putting an expensive 220 timer on each power ? right now i have 4 quads with 2 wires each to each quad pullin 220.

does this make sense to ya?

I'd like to get them through as few timers as possible. If ya got alink to a recommended brand and place to buy the timers that would be great too. i only found the dial type timers that you find on pool pumps and stuff at lowes for like 80 bucks a piece.

thanks man.


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 27, 2009)

Hogdady said:


> not to mention that if you go over your baseline the kwh unit price doubles!


Thats your elec co. not all companies have the same rate schedules.


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## tat2d420 (Aug 27, 2009)

Bricktown, I want to run some power to my shed. Nothing big but enough to have a few plants, What is the best way to go about wiring it? Thanks.


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## AquafinaOrbit (Aug 27, 2009)

tat2d420 said:


> Bricktown, I want to run some power to my shed. Nothing big but enough to have a few plants, What is the best way to go about wiring it? Thanks.


Not Bricktown but why not just run a 20amp 12-2 lateral(underground) service from the panel board to the shed?


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## grodrowithme (Aug 27, 2009)

brick are you still aroun an ansearing ?s im fixing to start my 2nd indoor unit the first is a bedroom so it pretty much had power. we had to run a new breaker and a little wire simple stuff. my new one is in a garage and it has power but i will only be using some of it. just wanted to see if you were still around befor i typed it all up? thanks


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## mrmadcow (Aug 27, 2009)

Lifted1 said:


> so how can i fix this without putting an expensive 220 timer on each power ? right now i have 4 quads with 2 wires each to each quad pullin 220.
> .


how about using 1 timer to trip a few relays?1 relay for each light. the relay won't draw much so you can put several on a cheap timer.
something like this
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/5Z546
$20 & it will handle a 1.5 hp motor at 220 so it should be fine for a light


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## Karloff (Aug 27, 2009)

Lifted1 said:


> Hey bricktown,
> 
> i put a panel in and ran 220 by skipping each on dual breakers. so i've got 220 for each 2 plugs. well now i'm putting in my lights and realize that i would have to have a separate timer for every lite. i had a few but i forgot they were 110 so now they are no good. lol dooooooooo!
> 
> ...


You can get a single 240 volt timer that allows for 2 seperate 240 v. loads the clock motor runs off on of the 240 volt circuits and it's load is so low it shouldn't pose a problem on either circuit as long as both sets of lights run at the same time on the same schedule 16/8 or 12/12 otherwise you'll need 2 seperate timers.
I'm not sure if Home Depot or Lowes still sells the 240 volt timers you might have to bite the bullet and go to an electrical supply and ask for a double pole double throw time clock they're a mechanical time clock / analog Digital might be too pricey.
I checked Lowes they sell one but it's got a 120 volt motor double pole time clock but you would need 2 of them and hav access to 120 volts to run the clock motors and they're $50.00 each.


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## Karloff (Aug 27, 2009)

mrmadcow said:


> how about using 1 timer to trip a few relays?1 relay for each light. the relay won't draw much so you can put several on a cheap timer.
> something like this
> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/5Z546
> $20 & it will handle a 1.5 hp motor at 220 so it should be fine for a light


That would work but you have to mount it into some kind of box since the contacts are exposed, it would hurt like hell if you backed up into them might even throw you across the room.
If you could lay your hands on an old central alarm box with a door that would work.


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 27, 2009)

Karloff said:


> That would work but you have to mount it into some kind of box since the contacts are exposed, it would hurt like hell if you backed up into them might even throw you across the room.
> If you could lay your hands on an old central alarm box with a door that would work.


tele/square-D and AB have enclosed contact contactors. Seen personally up to 60amp trip phase. Usually DIN rail mountable.

(funny story. went into a local electrical supply house here and asked for DIN rail. They had *no* idea what I was talking about. Kinda scarey)


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## Karloff (Aug 27, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> tele/square-D and AB have enclosed contact contactors. Seen personally up to 60amp trip phase. Usually DIN rail mountable.
> 
> (funny story. went into a local electrical supply house here and asked for DIN rail. They had *no* idea what I was talking about. Kinda scarey)


I know what you mean.
I deal with it daily


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## RedEyedRaver (Aug 28, 2009)

Brilliant, Cheers for the info Karloff


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## MisterMicro (Aug 28, 2009)

Oh snap i got one question.

Wheres the best place to go to get a computer fan 12v adapter rated for 2 amps?


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## grodrowithme (Aug 28, 2009)

MisterMicro said:


> Oh snap i got one question.
> 
> Wheres the best place to go to get a computer fan 12v adapter rated for 2 amps?



prob a computer store were they sell computer stuff like fans and such


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## Karloff (Aug 28, 2009)

RedEyedRaver said:


> Brilliant, Cheers for the info Karloff


As a rule of thumb if you plan out a project it can't hurt to use a larger ballast and a lower wattage fixture most suppliers design there equiptment to give you good service but they don't give the company away so taking a ballast to its top rating will work but if you design a little cushion into your design say a 600 watt ballast and a 400 watt bulb or fixture the ballast will not have to work so hard and run cooler so logically it should last longer bar any manufacturer defects.
And if you plan your electric circuits in the same way taking a circuit at 80% of its rated load you won't be popping breakers for example a 20 amp circuit to run nice and cool you should keep the load to 16 amps. and you'll be in top shape the breakers won't get hot.
An older breaker can begin to trip at lower demands as it weakens I've seen alot of breakers trip more frequently as they get older and older equiptment can start to draw more power to do their jobs as parts age.
Bulbs get dimmer as they age as well so a CFL or HPS bulb will start to produce less and less lumens as they age, but put a new bulb, tube in and they're like a new fixture alot of the growers will only use a bulb for a couple of grows as older bulbs result in smaller yields, but if you have the room you can compensate with additional plants and supplemental lighting.
It probably wouldn't hurt to have a spare bulb on hand especially if you have to order and wait for it to arrive during the Bloom cycle.
That would suck.


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## jimstar (Aug 28, 2009)

Great thread!

read 40 odd pages and skipped to the end - I am also interested to learn about how to rig up a PC fan or two for an exhaust pipe. 

What is the best and easiest way to do this?

I've heard you can use old 12v mobile phone chargers.

Any advice will be really really really appreciated!

oh, yeah one more thing, should I use a fluorescent light for growing seedlings?


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 28, 2009)

jimstar said:


> Great thread!
> 
> read 40 odd pages and skipped to the end - I am also interested to learn about how to rig up a PC fan or two for an exhaust pipe.
> 
> ...



They gotta be *really* old cell chargers. Haven't seen one over 5v in a lloonngg time.

just wonder through your junk pile reading the labels of the wall-warts
Should see 
Primary: 120VAC @xWatts
Secondary: 12VDC @yA

Just make sure the wart can supply more amps then the label of the fan. Pay attention to polarity.


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## zerran elar (Aug 28, 2009)

So im new to growing but my dad has been growing for ages... literaly. hah. Any who I was just sitting here thinking. If I was to buy a house and have him move in what would be the max 1000w lights we could have with out being detected? And another thing is I was wondering If i could have a electician come in and rig up another electic box and say im goin to "rent" out the top of the house or whatever and then set more lights up that way ? It would be in his name and i would have mine in my name... Thoughts? 

How much do you think it would cost for this? I posted a thread but it have like 10 views no replys. 
anyhelp would be nice, thanks.


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## Karloff (Aug 29, 2009)

zerran elar said:


> So im new to growing but my dad has been growing for ages... literaly. hah. Any who I was just sitting here thinking. If I was to buy a house and have him move in what would be the max 1000w lights we could have with out being detected? And another thing is I was wondering If i could have a electician come in and rig up another electic box and say im goin to "rent" out the top of the house or whatever and then set more lights up that way ? It would be in his name and i would have mine in my name... Thoughts?
> 
> How much do you think it would cost for this? I posted a thread but it have like 10 views no replys.
> anyhelp would be nice, thanks.


I'm not sure what you mean by being detected if your reffering to leaving a heat signature that could be detected by police and you plan to say install 4- 1000 watt fixtures on the second floor of your home you'll light up their detection equiptment like a christmas tree instead a stealthy grower would put the grow room in say a basement as the heat will dissapate and leave a more normal heat signature.
If your reffering to being caught as a result of having a higher electric bill adding an additional 4000 watts per hour per day will or could be noticed if you buy a different home and the utility co. keeps records of usage it might notice that your using more electricity than the previous owner.
I'm not saying that they do that but I guess it's a possibility as for having a second panel installed and telling the electrician that your going to rent it out isn't going to fool anyone besides you would have to get permits and approval to make the home a 2 family residence and if approved you would need to install a second service and seperate all the existing wiring from the first service.
Oh what a tangled web.
Or you could just have a sub panel installed off the existing service for say supplemental air conditioning on the second floor assuming that you don't have central air.
Bottom line it could be done but it might look suspicious to anyone doing it you'll need to use an excuse like I want to move an ailing family member to the home and want to make sure that what ever equiptment he needs has an appropriate electrical supply for medical equiptment etc.
As far as cost I could tell you what it costs in my state but every state has different costs as far as materials and labor costs go so you would have to ask around in your area and alot of it will depend on how large or small your existing electrical service is a new home today has to have a minimum of a 100 amp. service while an existing older home may have a 60 amp service, a better home or one that costs more will probably have a 200 amp. service with a 40 circuit panel.
There are many factors that determine how much it will cost you to add a panel mostly how difficult it is to get from the main panel to the new sub panel location the amount of material choice of panel (Brand) permits, inspections etc.
There's no easy answer.


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## all1x98 (Aug 29, 2009)

Thats easy for you to say, I personally know someone who recently got $138 bill ( 1 month ) and all he runs is a couple of floros for veggin, 1- 400w for flowering, and a couple of fans. Im just sayin...


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## Karloff (Aug 29, 2009)

all1x98 said:


> Thats easy for you to say, I personally know someone who recently got $138 bill ( 1 month ) and all he runs is a couple of floros for veggin, 1- 400w for flowering, and a couple of fans. Im just sayin...


There's nothing easy about a $138.00 jump in your electric bill I'd be willing to bet that's due to the HPS it all sounds great till you concider thats 400 watts per hour 12 hours a day times whatever you pay per killowat hour that comes to almost 5 kw a day and I've heard alot of people use them through the entire grow because of how deep the light saturation is and others use MH at 400 watts times 16 hours a day for vegitative growth that's another 6.5 kw each and every day so CFL's start to sound better all the time. There's a book i just read from a guy by the name of See More Buds it's called Marijuana Buds For Less it's on Amazon for around $13.00 plus S+H it's a quick read.
I don't mind saying I'm a cheap bastard and I try to save a buck where I can according to him you can grow 8 oz. of bud for less than a hundred dollars, I don't know if it's true but maybe worth a look.


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## AquafinaOrbit (Aug 29, 2009)

Karloff said:


> There's nothing easy about a $138.00 jump in your electric bill I'd be willing to bet that's due to the HPS it all sounds great till you concider thats 400 watts per hour 12 hours a day times whatever you pay per killowat hour that comes to almost 5 kw a day and I've heard alot of people use them through the entire grow because of how deep the light saturation is and others use MH at 400 watts times 16 hours a day for vegitative growth that's another 6.5 kw each and every day so CFL's start to sound better all the time. There's a book i just read from a guy by the name of See More Buds it's called Marijuana Buds For Less it's on Amazon for around $13.00 plus S+H it's a quick read.
> I don't mind saying I'm a cheap bastard and I try to save a buck where I can according to him you can grow 8 oz. of bud for less than a hundred dollars, I don't know if it's true but maybe worth a look.


CFLs use just as much wattage per lumens as HPS and MH and infact use more. So for a comparable grow lumens wise you would pay more to run CFLs then an HID. Saying CFLs are cheaper in that regard is about the same as saying incandescent light is cheaper then a CFL. (Not as extreme of course) Also even in alaska a 400Watt 12/12 cycle would not pull 138$ in a month. That 138$ is probably his entire bill or he has AC going. (12/12 in NC at 10cents a kilowatt hour (Its rated lower but after taxes) is about 25 bucks using a 600 watt)


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## dragun (Aug 29, 2009)

a lot of houses have a 200 amp electrical boxs these days.can the main wire to my house handle an extra 200 amp box.for a total of 400 amps.


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## Wolfrick (Aug 29, 2009)

I'm also an electrician by trade, and I was wondering if you could elaborate on the reasoning behind splitting grounds and neutrals in a sub-panel. As I'm sure you know, at the main it is not necessary by US code so why is it on the sub?


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## Wolfrick (Aug 29, 2009)

dragun said:


> a lot of houses have a 200 amp electrical boxs these days.can the main wire to my house handle an extra 200 amp box.for a total of 400 amps.


Speaking of sub-panels lol. The answer is no you can only use 50% of the total amps from your main panel. So if you have a 200 amp service you can have a 100 amp sub-panel. Why on earth do you need so much power anyway? lol Most homes these days are fine with just 100 amp service (unless you have a pool or spa). We forget how efficient devices are becoming as technology advances.


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 30, 2009)

Wolfrick said:


> Speaking of sub-panels lol. The answer is no you can only use 50% of the total amps from your main panel. So if you have a 200 amp service you can have a 100 amp sub-panel. Why on earth do you need so much power anyway? lol Most homes these days are fine with just 100 amp service (unless you have a pool or spa). We forget how efficient devices are becoming as technology advances.


The on demand electric hot water heaters, from what I remember, can draw upwards of 50-75 amps. Electric stove/range, heat, central AC, hot water add up.
(though not sure why one would go electric on demand hot water)

Sure more and more devices are getting efficient, but there are more and more devices coming out. Look at kitchens. 50 years ago, just a couple outlets was fine. Now its nearly every 2 feet.

But currently, yeah 100-150 should be fine for most homes of normal size.


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## Karloff (Aug 30, 2009)

dragun said:


> a lot of houses have a 200 amp electrical boxs these days.can the main wire to my house handle an extra 200 amp box.for a total of 400 amps.


Not all builders are willing to pay the extra money for a 200 amp service on a spec house.
If your home came with a 200 amp service all the conductors are sized for the rated size and not higher in the last few years the price of copper andd aluminum has gone way up.
I've been told that is due to a building boom in either Japan or China they're building these mega structures also the price of steel has gone up alot as well.
We're fead so much garbage to explain rising costs I don't know what to belileve anymore.
But one thing holds true homes are built to the letter of the code but remember the code is the bare minimum so translated they're built to the lowest possible standards allowed by law.
So when a contracter tells you all his work is up to code what he's really saying it was the least he could do and still get away with it.
One thing you may notice if you have an electrical service that comes in overhead from a pole is that the wire looks and is smaller than the wire coming in after the electrical meter to the main breaker the utility companies have different insulators on their wire and can reduce the wire size accordingly also they get to reduce wire size based on conductors in free air space meaning if the wire is ran outside any pipe or other enclosure they can rely on air flow to keep the wires cool.
And they are not held to the same codes as home owners, you might have noticed that there is no overload protection on that wiring before it hits your house in fact the main breaker is your first line of defense so to speak.
So if two live wires hit each other before the main breaker there is no protection, kind of scary.


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## Karloff (Aug 30, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> The on demand electric hot water heaters, from what I remember, can draw upwards of 50-75 amps. Electric stove/range, heat, central AC, hot water add up.
> (though not sure why one would go electric on demand hot water)
> 
> Sure more and more devices are getting efficient, but there are more and more devices coming out. Look at kitchens. 50 years ago, just a couple outlets was fine. Now its nearly every 2 feet.
> ...


You have to concider the fact that with one of these units your only paying to heat the water your using now not the water your using later in a regular hot water heater you pay to heat the water till you use it and to maintain the water temp for later, so an on-demand heater is in some ways more efficient also next time your at a home center just try to find an energy star rated hot water heater.
They don't exist.
And yes they do draw alot but only when you are running hot water.


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## Karloff (Aug 30, 2009)

Wolfrick said:


> I'm also an electrician by trade, and I was wondering if you could elaborate on the reasoning behind splitting grounds and neutrals in a sub-panel. As I'm sure you know, at the main it is not necessary by US code so why is it on the sub?


I've asked the same question and have never gotten an answer that made sense.
But have you ever noticed that you get seperate neutral bars and seperate ground bars in main breaker panel but you have to buy a seperate ground bar for the sub panel when it is mandatory to have one in the first place.
So many things make no sense to me all I can chalk it up to is that it is just another way to get us to pay more for material.
The only answers I've ever been given is that it is for safety reasons and that it is the code and that came directly from an inspector.
Go figure..


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## Karloff (Aug 30, 2009)

AquafinaOrbit said:


> CFLs use just as much wattage per lumens as HPS and MH and infact use more. So for a comparable grow lumens wise you would pay more to run CFLs then an HID. Saying CFLs are cheaper in that regard is about the same as saying incandescent light is cheaper then a CFL. (Not as extreme of course) Also even in alaska a 400Watt 12/12 cycle would not pull 138$ in a month. That 138$ is probably his entire bill or he has AC going. (12/12 in NC at 10cents a kilowatt hour (Its rated lower but after taxes) is about 25 bucks using a 600 watt)


His bill might have reflected additional electric needed to compensate for the higher temps created by the HPS and having to run the airconditioning more.
I live in an area where we're all electric some tree huggers got together a long time ago and blocked gas lines from being ran through the forests that surround my town and the homeowners association doesn't allow LPG either so we heat by electric also hot water, I would welcome a $138.00 electric bill I'd kiss the meter reader on the lips for one of those and I'm a manly man darnit.
So for me CFL's are it ,anyone know where i can get a wind up toaster......
Honestly I cringe when I see the electric bill.


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## Karloff (Aug 30, 2009)

*I took this table from a CFL tutorial.*
to give you an Idea of how different light sources put out light.
You'll notice that HPS and MH seem to out perform CFL's but keep in mind that you get some additional flexability from CFL's you can hang them closer to and in between plants directing the light more efficiently.
I'm sure each of us has our own opinions on lighting and I've seen some spirited arguments on here over it, but at the end of the day all of us are going to do what works best for us and fits into our budgets.
I may one day go out and buy an HPS fixture to see what difference if any it makes to me.
In my own home I've gone around and have replaced almost all of my regular bulbs with CFL's in order to save money in the long run when CFL's first came out I hated the color of the light but they've done a much better job and have lowered the prices for the bulbs as well, you can run 3- 60 watt CFL's to 1 incandescant bulb that appeals to the tightwad in me.
If your interested in reading the CFL tutorial just hit the link below.
https://www.rollitup.org/cfl-growing/202718-cfl-tutorial.html
I know this is not a CFL thread but it is a resource at your disposal and I thought it might be informative to those still on the fence.
No matter what your lighting choice is try to enjoy your growing experience and kiss your dealer goodbye.
you can allways send him a Christmas card. Lol


*Approximate light production:*
Incandescents: 17 lumens/watt
Mercury vapor: 45-50 lumens/watt
Fluorescents: 60-70 lumens/watt
Metal halide: 90 lumens/watt
High pressure sodium: 107 lumens/watt


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## AquafinaOrbit (Aug 30, 2009)

If your talking to me Karloff my grow rooms been CFL for over a year now, just stating that HPS/MH is a more efficient technology. As for the bill, I live by myself with no AC, using propane range and water heater and my bill was over 200$ last month though it's usually more like 130. (Oh and my grow room is only pulling about 500watts right now, 400+ in CFLs and about 80 in fans.) Again just stating that there is a basic easy way to figure out a bill and 138$ from 400watts is not happening.
I agree on service load size though, and yeah even though appliances may be more efficient then ever we are still as a whole drawing more power then ever. Hell originally a house would have a single light and a receptical which they could connect an ice box to. Today though, out of 100Amps if you had two general appliance circuits which you would, 40amps would already be dedicated to that, then 20 more amps for a laundry circuit, and what 3 watts per sq/ft of general lighting. Of course those would never pull full load all at once, but on the otherside you'd never run an electrical dryer on 20amps and your looking at 50+amps for a range. (I'm running a 200A 40 slot panel board but it's a bit overkill, 100Amp would run me but would be about maxed)


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 30, 2009)

Karloff said:


> You have to concider the fact that with one of these units your only paying to heat the water your using now not the water your using later in a regular hot water heater you pay to heat the water till you use it and to maintain the water temp for later, so an on-demand heater is in some ways more efficient also next time your at a home center just try to find an energy star rated hot water heater.
> They don't exist.
> And yes they do draw alot but only when you are running hot water.


All true, but at any given time everything *could* be on. (granted not heat and AC)

So if I read you right, no prob with having say a 75 amp sub panel with 200 amps worth of breakers in it?
(I use 200 figuring 75 per leg would be 150 to single pole breakers)


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## DenseBuds (Aug 30, 2009)

I have a relatively small two tent veg(2-2ft, 4bulb T5s)/flower(250watt HPS) setup in my home office. Using my Kill-a-watt, I've determined that I'm pulling ~ 4amps for lights and fans (soil grow, so that's it). 

However, since it's a home office and I work from home frequently in addition to being a huge computer geek, I have multiple (4-5) computers running 24x7, pulling around 1.5amps a piece. Also, I live in the desert where it frequently hits 115 in the summer. Since I need to keep the door closed for both work and grow reasons, the room gets crazy hot during the summer. To combat this, I also have a portable A/C unit in the room. 

I have to plug the A/C into an extension cord into the next room or I trip the breaker. Also, I had to move my wife's treadmill into the guest bedroom. I'm looking to rectify this.

I'm thinking that what I need to do is have an electrician out to run a dedicated circuit (thinking 20amp to account for possible expansion?) to plug either my grow setup or computers into and the A/C or Treadmill into. Right?

Here are pics of my breaker box. Can anyone give me a rough estimate of how much it might cost to have an extra circuit added to the box and run to my grow room/office? It's on the opposite side of the house from the box, but it's a 1-story 2300 sq foot house, so it's not terribly far.

Thanks,
DB


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## Karloff (Aug 31, 2009)

AquafinaOrbit said:


> If your talking to me Karloff my grow rooms been CFL for over a year now, just stating that HPS/MH is a more efficient technology. As for the bill, I live by myself with no AC, using propane range and water heater and my bill was over 200$ last month though it's usually more like 130. (Oh and my grow room is only pulling about 500watts right now, 400+ in CFLs and about 80 in fans.) Again just stating that there is a basic easy way to figure out a bill and 138$ from 400watts is not happening.
> I agree on service load size though, and yeah even though appliances may be more efficient then ever we are still as a whole drawing more power then ever. Hell originally a house would have a single light and a receptical which they could connect an ice box to. Today though, out of 100Amps if you had two general appliance circuits which you would, 40amps would already be dedicated to that, then 20 more amps for a laundry circuit, and what 3 watts per sq/ft of general lighting. Of course those would never pull full load all at once, but on the otherside you'd never run an electrical dryer on 20amps and your looking at 50+amps for a range. (I'm running a 200A 40 slot panel board but it's a bit overkill, 100Amp would run me but would be about maxed)


That bill is hard to swallow I'm wondering if the meter reader might have made a mistake, I had an old aunt who lived alone in a small apartment and she would go down to the local power companies office and pay the bill in person and if her bill was over $13.00 she'd argue it with them till they lowered it she was a funny old lady she would only watch Lawrence Welk on her television on Sunday night and read the newspaper by the street light till it got dark then she used a 15 watt buld to finish the paper.
Today people leave the television running to keep the dog company while they're out it's a different world today I leave my comp on 24/7 right now I'm out on the porch doing this and the television is on waiting for me to throw a dvd in.
I know I waste alot of electric it's just a bad habit.
My lights and fan probably are going about 500 watts but I put the fan on a timer only running on for 15 mins and off for 15 mins. I don't run all the lights all the time 4 of them run for an hour every three hours the rest are on the 16/8 it's just an experiment to randomize the lighting from strong to average.
I don't know if it will have any effect positive or negative but I wanted to try it to see what would happen.
I thought running the extra four at odd on and off times would simulate the effect of clouds coming and going as in nature.
Probably just a silly experiment the remaing light supports the normal growth cycle, I'm also trying to come up with a way to rotate the plants every three hours a quarter turn to get balanced lighting on the plants.
It probably seems to be a bit odd to do all those things I'm just curious to see what will come of it.


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## Karloff (Aug 31, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> All true, but at any given time everything *could* be on. (granted not heat and AC)
> 
> So if I read you right, no prob with having say a 75 amp sub panel with 200 amps worth of breakers in it?
> (I use 200 figuring 75 per leg would be 150 to single pole breakers)


The one time I installed one of those on demand hot water heaters it was on a 200 amp. service in a small two or three bedroom home with only one occupant.
An older man who was worried about paying to keep the water hot all the time.
I've only seen one customer who pulled near 100 amps on one leg of his service but he was running a business out of his home, I just moved a couple of circuits to ballance out the 200 amp. panel.
I remember hearing about an electrician with a gambling problem who would go up to a panel in front of the homeowner and count up the breakers adding all the breakers up and then he would tell the home owner he was pulling too much power for the 100 amp service and it ws dangerous just to sell them a 200 amp upgrade.
As far as the sub panel goes I would want to at least try to get a good Idea of what they usually use as far as loads go if it were an all electric home heat, stove, wall oven, hot tub, pool etc. I wouldn't want to install one without checking but 200 amps goes a long way.
Loads change sometimes by the minute appliances cycle on and off, I really wouldn't offe ran opinion without seeing things for myself I could say yes only later to find they have say a Federal panel I don't like adding anything to those I'd rather get them away from that brand.
If I had a Federal panel the first thing I'd do was change my panel before the sun set if it were my home just as an example.
I'm very leary about giving any advice on here I would feel more comfortable seeing the situation and then giving advice, but that's not possible.
It comes from doing alot of insurance jobs I've rewired too many homes that have had fires in them.
I've seen some crazy stuff.


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## teebeekahuna (Aug 31, 2009)

Are you in the IBEW, bro?


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## Karloff (Aug 31, 2009)

DenseBuds said:


> I have a relatively small two tent veg(2-2ft, 4bulb T5s)/flower(250watt HPS) setup in my home office. Using my Kill-a-watt, I've determined that I'm pulling ~ 4amps for lights and fans (soil grow, so that's it).
> 
> However, since it's a home office and I work from home frequently in addition to being a huge computer geek, I have multiple (4-5) computers running 24x7, pulling around 1.5amps a piece. Also, I live in the desert where it frequently hits 115 in the summer. Since I need to keep the door closed for both work and grow reasons, the room gets crazy hot during the summer. To combat this, I also have a portable A/C unit in the room.
> 
> ...


Well I can't see the whole panel many companies use the same cover on several panels I see two open knock outs on the panel cover but that doesn't mean that there is anything behind them, but lets say you have room in the panel I would run 2 new circuits it's cheaper to do it now one for the comps and one for the ac it's cheaper to have him or her do it in one trip than to pay him to come back a second time. it would also free up the existing circuits your using.
if you were to hav e2 120 volt circuits ran the electrician could run a three wire cable and split the circuit sharing the neutral between the two live wires.
And then you could use the new circuits for what ever you need them for one word of advice make sure he doesn't have to have access to your grow room to run the wires through but if he does you'll probably want to move your plants while the job is getting done.


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## DenseBuds (Aug 31, 2009)

Good point on the 2 circuits vs 1. I do have open knockouts on the panel. Is that the only concern? I wad worried that the main breaker being 200 wouldn't be enough and I'd need to upgrade that somehow.

Thanks!


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## AquafinaOrbit (Aug 31, 2009)

200 Should be plenty. Easy way to figure your amp load is just take the Watts being used, and divide that by the nominal voltage. So for say a computer you would divide X watts by 120, or 240 for things like the range. Also on appliances like the range or dryer you need to then multiply that amperage you get after you did the division by 1.25. (Old houses would be 110/220, or 115) 12/3 awg would probably handle your new room fine though like I believe Karloff is saying.


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## Karloff (Aug 31, 2009)

AquafinaOrbit said:


> 200 Should be plenty. Easy way to figure your amp load is just take the Watts being used, and divide that by the nominal voltage. So for say a computer you would divide X watts by 120, or 240 for things like the range. Also on appliances like the range or dryer you need to then multiply that amperage you get after you did the division by 1.25. (Old houses would be 110/220, or 115) 12/3 awg would probably handle your new room fine though like I believe Karloff is saying.


Yes a 12/3 wire for the circuit or circuits would be what I meant.


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## Karloff (Aug 31, 2009)

teebeekahuna said:


> Are you in the IBEW, bro?


No I was never in the union although I sometimes wish I was but at the time i started in the field my friends and relatives who were spent more time on layoffs than working it was during the last recession funny how history repeats it's starting to look like the eighties all over again.
But if I was in the union I'd be retired by now.
Ahh the road not taken.
I do support the union guys.
I did mostly custom high end homes specialty wiring the last few years I did alot of insurance work fires, floods, lightning strikes etc. some of it was interesting even got to meet Springsteen.


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## bloatedcraig (Aug 31, 2009)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


Alright man if you ever need any advice about UK wiring give us a shout, i am a electrician and its a different ball game over here.


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## 8LegWhitey (Aug 31, 2009)

I have my grow space in my attic. Originally there was an outlet In the attic with 
Single 12 gauge wire coming into it. I pulled the wire, ran it into a double switch, which
Allowed me to send one wire back to the original attic outlet and one wire to my
Grow room.

The original attic attic outlet isn't supplying anything, but needs to be operable just in case.

The grow room room wire is ran into a 20 amp gfi I installed in grow room.

This is all running off the grow room gfi,
(1) 6 inch inline fan
(1) 600 watt nextgen ballast and light
(2) 4 inch boost fans
(3) Small res water pumps
(2) Small fans
(1) 2' 4 bulb t5 light

Everything in the flowering room is running good, but I just added the 
Veg room and I'm worried it is going to be too much power the way I have it ran.

Any suggestions?


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## legalgrower1 (Aug 31, 2009)

i have a 30a 220- gfi protected circuit available in my house to run to the grow room. i wanted to run 6 1000 watt lights on 220v off of this circuit. after i get the #10 wire into the room, how do i go about wiring multiple 220v outlets? do you just connect black to black etc from outlet to outlet? thanks.


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## Karloff (Sep 2, 2009)

Your going to have to do some math, you'll need to read the name plate on your next gen ballast to see what it is using I know you said it was a 600 watt but my understanding is that one appeal of the electronic ballasts is that they use less electricity so you need to read the label and add that to the total wattage of your fluorescant tubes then depending on how the rest of your equiptment is labeled watts/amps you'll need to figure out what each piece is pulling or using add all totals and see if you have more equiptment than power.
You may need to convert watts to amps for example a 600 watt fixture would draw 5 amps. using OHM'S LAW.
OHM'S LAW is a formula used to determine different things you need to know two values to get the third in this case we know the voltage say 120 volts and we know the watttage 600 so we have to use OHM'S LAW to determine the amperage the device is using in this case we have to do the math 660 watts divided by 120 volts equals 5 amps.
But as I said I'm not familiar with your equiptment and by code the equiptment should have a name plate giving you the info add up the amp ratings on all known pieces of equiptment and use OHM'S LAW for the rest you might want to do a google search for Ohm's Law you might find calculator on line to help but if you can't here's the standard formulas.
Ohm's Law calculator.
http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/page2.asp

This should help add all your totals and see if your good to go.


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## Karloff (Sep 2, 2009)

legalgrower1 said:


> i have a 30a 220- gfi protected circuit available in my house to run to the grow room. i wanted to run 6 1000 watt lights on 220v off of this circuit. after i get the #10 wire into the room, how do i go about wiring multiple 220v outlets? do you just connect black to black etc from outlet to outlet? thanks.


One thing that comes to mind is you could take that 30 amp 240 volt line and put it into a small sub panel then come off the sub Panel with 2 seperate 240 v. 20 amp. circuits otherwise you'll have to run all 10 guage wire unless your used to working with it it can be hard for a novice to wrap around device terminals.
As far as wiring the devices you have two hot wires and a ground just make sure you get the correct receptacles for your ballasts look at the plug configuration you might even want to take it with you when buying the receptacles.


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## slantxl (Sep 2, 2009)

I was sitting here reading the posts and I figured I'd go to my electrical box to see what I got. I opened the box and saw most of the breakers were labeled 20A. I noticed below the box there was 220V?, i think 220, attached connected to the electrical box as well. The conduit states 75A and if this is the case I am in great shape, if not can someone please explain to me what this is for. I would be awesome to run all my equipment off this one breaker. Please help me out and let me know whats up with this cable. I know a maintenance man for some local hotels lived here before us, so he might of upgraded his box. I'm very excited if this is the case. Someone please let me know, it would be greatly appreciated... mad rep.


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## slantxl (Sep 2, 2009)

75 amp????


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## Karloff (Sep 3, 2009)

slantxl said:


> 75 amp????


That's an odd place to see that it looks like you might have a seperate line tapped off the main panel going outside to someplace else maybe an out building or possibly a hot tub or something, but that is a strange way to connect it up that is a twist lock cord end or ends one male and one female but I can't say that it is rated for outdoor use.
It looks like something you'd see in a commercial or industrial setting not a residential setting.
It also shows signs of weathering and doesn't look weather proof, you might have found something that needs to be corrected it could be unsafe as water could get in and cause a short or worse.
The whole thing looks like somebody rigged up the whole thing, my guess is that the last homeowner did it himself.
Where the wire leaves the house it goes into a conduuit fitting that looks like something you'd see in an industrial setting but the set screw connector with the two screws is strictly for indoor wiring an outdoor connector wouldn't have exposed set screws and would be a compression type I can't tell what type of wire that is it could be an extension cord type wire or possibly in the "romex" category or non metallic sheathed cable which is for indoor use only but again I can't tell since it has been painted you can't tell from the pictures.
It might have gone to something that is no longer there or in use your going to have to figure out what it is going to given the size of the breaker it could be for some large piece of equiptment anything from an out building to a swimming pool or pool heater without some further investigation on your part I wouldn't be turning it on anytime soon.
Let me know what you find I love a good mystery, I'm not being a wise ass but this is the kind of thing that breaks up a bored electricians day.
seriously write back it could be dangerous and I'd like to help keep you and yours safe if I can.


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## slantxl (Sep 3, 2009)

I decided to stop by Home Depot on my way home and pick up a Vol Test XL. I could not get a reading off of the 250V Hart Lock. Because I did not get a reading does this mean that the line is dead? I did find out that I have 120 V running to the garage and another 110 V running to the spare bedroom behind the garage. I also found out a little more info on the hart lock...easier to investigate in day light. It is made by Arrow Hart Inc., Model Hart Lock 50A 125/250 V; CAT NOS: CS6364. (Refer to link at bottom) You also mentioned to me that I should not turn this on... would I have to flip the breaker to turn this on or is there another method to power it up. All the breakers in the electrical box have always been on. I don't want to mess with it to much cause I don't know if it is live or not. I was also able to get information off of the wire, the underside is not painted. The writing on the wire read; 12 3 TYPE SO 90 G P 123 70 MSHA. If this wire is live would I be able to, or have an electrician, run the conduit another 25 ft, set up a breaker box, and run all my equipment off of two 120 V breakers. For the run all I would have to do is extend the line up the exterior wall, core a hole through the attic crawl/space, run the line over a den, and it would be in the garage. The den was an add on so the attic/crawl space in the den is exposed in the garage. I would love to take advantage of this if I can, but I know how delicate of matter electricity is. I would not want to hook anything up that wasn't solid. Let me know what you think. 

http://solutions.cooperwiringdevices.com/common/brands.cfm?pg=Detail&brandName=CWD Industrial&category=Locking Devices - Hart-Lock®: 50A: Connectors&id=17571


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## crazysparky (Sep 3, 2009)

hey Slantxl what u have there is a twist lock plug u said they guy that lived there was in matinence and he prob brought that home from work there is nothing wrong with that. why u didnt get a reading is that twist locks can b a pain to get a good reading on u can always pull the cover off ur pannel to make sure its hooked up to the breaker. the cable is a so cord like a heavy duty extention cord its 12/3 so its only rated for 20 amps that 20 amps is only good for about 100 feet the u will run into voltage drop. you can go into ur garuge and do a voltage test there if u have 110v ur good u said u have 2 other cirits in ur garuge so u have total of 2 120v and a 220v u should b ok as long as ur just having a room in there u can leave that 220 for lites or change the breaker and make it 120v


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## mrmadcow (Sep 3, 2009)

Karloff said:


> That's an odd place to see that it looks like you might have a seperate line tapped off the main panel going outside to someplace else maybe an out building or possibly a hot tub or something, but that is a strange way to connect it up that is a twist lock cord end or ends one male and one female but I can't say that it is rated for outdoor use.
> It looks like something you'd see in a commercial or industrial setting not a residential setting.......
> It might have gone to something that is no longer there or in use your going to have to figure out what it is going to given the size of the breaker it could be for some large piece of equiptment anything from an out building to a swimming pool or pool heater without some further investigation on your part I wouldn't be turning it on anytime soon..


could it have been a halfassed way to feed the breaker box from a generator? I saw something simular at a commercial building once, the guy would turn off the main breaker and plug a generator into a cord that was backfed to the panel. it worked but if he ever forgot to turn off the main or turned on the main befor unplugging the generator,....sparks....boom!
personally,I would remove it and run a new romex to your room.


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## Karloff (Sep 3, 2009)

slantxl said:


> I decided to stop by Home Depot on my way home and pick up a Vol Test XL. I could not get a reading off of the 250V Hart Lock. Because I did not get a reading does this mean that the line is dead? I did find out that I have 120 V running to the garage and another 110 V running to the spare bedroom behind the garage. I also found out a little more info on the hart lock...easier to investigate in day light. It is made by Arrow Hart Inc., Model Hart Lock 50A 125/250 V; CAT NOS: CS6364. (Refer to link at bottom) You also mentioned to me that I should not turn this on... would I have to flip the breaker to turn this on or is there another method to power it up. All the breakers in the electrical box have always been on. I don't want to mess with it to much cause I don't know if it is live or not. I was also able to get information off of the wire, the underside is not painted. The writing on the wire read; 12 3 TYPE SO 90 G P 123 70 MSHA. If this wire is live would I be able to, or have an electrician, run the conduit another 25 ft, set up a breaker box, and run all my equipment off of two 120 V breakers. For the run all I would have to do is extend the line up the exterior wall, core a hole through the attic crawl/space, run the line over a den, and it would be in the garage. The den was an add on so the attic/crawl space in the den is exposed in the garage. I would love to take advantage of this if I can, but I know how delicate of matter electricity is. I would not want to hook anything up that wasn't solid. Let me know what you think.
> 
> http://solutions.cooperwiringdevices.com/common/brands.cfm?pg=Detail&brandName=CWD Industrial&category=Locking Devices - Hart-Lock®: 50A: Connectors&id=17571


It's hard to see where the wire goes but it looks like it's going underground and that wire is not rated to be burried it looks larger than a 12-3 but it doesn't really matter I would turn it off and take a walk around testing things to see what isn't working if it's going underground it might be coming up anywhere.
The one thing I would do is to have an electrician come out and look at it and move on from there the electrician might be able to run a new circuit to power your equiptment if it were me I would run an extra circuit just in case you decide to go with some heavy lighting I don't know how many plants your planning to grow and don't know if your going to have two seperate areas one for grow and one for bloom but if you do it would make sense to have some extra juice some of the guys on here go a little overboard on lighting but if you go with High intensity discharge lighting (HPS or MH) they draw more and make the room very hot so you'll have to plan for cooling it off there's lots of threads on here to help you decide how to set up your room.
If your going to grow just a couple of plants one or two plants, CFL's run cool and don't pull alot of power but I don't want to influence you on your lighting choice.
That said you seem level headed and know your not experienced with wiring there's some really nice hydro setups out there that you can use in fact there are kits available that you can grow 6 plants in from start to finish that are very reasonable they even come with the nutrients and lights there is a thread that Roseman has just started on his latest closet grow using one of these kits.It's set up for the beginner it will tell you how to set up the system and where to get it, but don't try to post on that thread he wants to keep it clean so its easy to read for people new to growing he says from start to finish it takes 90 days give or take to harvest he has grown using this method many times and swears by it.
Also if you read it carefully ther is a coupon code for either a 10% or 20% discount from the hydro store, the kits go for around $200.00 and up depending on what options you choose you just supply the water and the seeds or clones.
I'm not trying to sell you on anything but the system draws very little power and you might not have to have an electrician run a new line so in the long run its not a bad option in fact I looked up Rosemans grow for you to save you time here's the link: https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/234626-rosemans-diy-bubbleponics-tutorial.html
Again I'm not trying to sell you anything but offer you an option.
If you prefer to grow in soil there are plenty of threads that you con read or if you are an experienced grower please disregard this part but have that old line looked at either way.
It's getting late and I'm beat.
Good luck what ever you do but have that looked at soon.
Thanks.


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## Xeno420 (Sep 3, 2009)

Higher Education said:


> Hey Brick and everyone, I was wondering how to tell if an outlet is 110v or 220v? I was also wondering how to tell the amp rating of an outlet....any input would be great, thanks.


110 looks like = · and 220 looks like -.- and is also twice or three times bigger than 110.


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## Karloff (Sep 3, 2009)

I don't like to put other peoples work down but that whole setup is bad that he has if it's run underground it's an accident waiting to happen.
My experience has been if someone burries what is pretty much an extension cord it's going to rot out and I would bet that its not burried very deep either I'd be surprised if it were burried more than 6-8 inches.
Think about what would happen if this guys wife or kid picked up a shovel and hit the wire they could get hurt or worse I've seen too many bad homeowner wiring jobs watching This Old House and Home Time does not make anybody an electrician it takes an investment in schooling and then 5 years in the field before really know whats going on.
As far as the generator setup goes that is a dangerous setup and yes it could blow up.
They make something called a transfer switch for generator hookups I've installed a few they're pretty cool, I won't bore you with the details and it's getting late so I'm out of here.
Take it easy and have a good night.


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## jimstar (Sep 5, 2009)

Hi All, 

great thread by the way.

i got a ballast the other day. its labelled in Spanish. 

I am a bit nervous about connecting the whole thing up.

I have the initials F, N, and LR, LA. 

Do i connect wires from the mains to F and N. And then cables from LR and LA to the lamp?

I have three wires (brown, blue, Yellow and green) i take it that I just use live and neutral?

I will really appreciate any help.


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## mike420mtz (Sep 5, 2009)

Can i put a new 220 circuit on the circuit breaker? and if the answer is yes how? your help would be greatly appreciated


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## mrscootrocka (Sep 5, 2009)

Hey guys, ive been fictitiously growing for years and am about to start a large grow consisting of 3x 600 watt hps. I will be growing in my exterior garage and need some advice on how to outfit it for the 1800 watts of electricity that my grow will be using, not to mention the 3x 633 gph water pumps, fans, etc. 

The main circuit breaker is 30 feet away.

Any help would be much appreciated.


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## Firstgrow1 (Sep 5, 2009)

This might sound silly but i have a 600w hps and i was thinking is the ballast pumping out 600watts aswell as the bulb so 1200 all togeva? and wats safe like if my socket says it takes 3000watts can i use stuff that adds up to 3000 or stay a bit bellow? hope u can help peace


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## AquafinaOrbit (Sep 5, 2009)

No. The ballast is in place because simply put an HID bulb cannot take a direct current from a wall. So a 600watt Ballast pulls 600watts, and then sends that same 600watts onto the 600watt bulb.


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## AquafinaOrbit (Sep 5, 2009)

mrscootrocka said:


> Hey guys, ive been fictitiously growing for years and am about to start a large grow consisting of 3x 600 watt hps. I will be growing in my exterior garage and need some advice on how to outfit it for the 1800 watts of electricity that my grow will be using, not to mention the 3x 633 gph water pumps, fans, etc.
> 
> The main circuit breaker is 30 feet away.
> 
> Any help would be much appreciated.



Does your garage have 20amp gfci circuits going to it? That would be able to handle the load up to about 2400watts, if not then a basic 20 amp (12-2) wire run to the grow area should be enough but wouldn't give to much room to expand. From there of course you can go on your own discretion, with basically more money equaling more watts possible. (240v line would lower amps but most things you'll be connecting won't have a 240v plug and would require an adapter. 12-3 or 10-2 would be the next steps IMO if 12-2 does not cut it)


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## mrscootrocka (Sep 6, 2009)

right now there is only 1 110 outlet out there, what would be the steps to outfitting it with sufficient electricity. I would like to have ideally 3600 watts of electricity in the future so I might as well configure now. that would be 6 600 watters. GFCI seems to be the way to go but what about for 3600 watts.


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## mrscootrocka (Sep 6, 2009)

I hear 600 watters run about 6 amps. How do i provide enough electricity for 36 amps?


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 6, 2009)

AquafinaOrbit said:


> No. The ballast is in place because simply put an HID bulb cannot take a direct current from a wall. So a 600watt Ballast pulls 600watts, and then sends that same 600watts onto the 600watt bulb.


Nope. The ballast will have an overhead (hence all the energy savings BS of the digitals. The savings are only for the ballast overhead) The bulb will pull the 600, the ballast will pull, on average, another 10%, so figure 660W from the wall to power the bulb & ballast.


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## potroast247 (Sep 6, 2009)

I have a question. I have 2 outlets (110v) running off of 2 different junction boxes in the attic. I will have 2 lights a 1000w HPS and a 1000w MH. The sockets are the ones with test/reset (gfci??). The wires from the attic boxes to the outlets are 12/2 600v. If I plug the lights into the sockets seperately, with some fans and blowers, should I be ok? What will cause the circuit breakers to trip. How many amps will the lights draw? I'm very confused on the whole electricity aspet of the grow room. I just want to make sure that my power outlets are sufficient for the above equiptment. 

Thanks for any help.


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## AquafinaOrbit (Sep 6, 2009)

mrscootrocka said:


> right now there is only 1 110 outlet out there, what would be the steps to outfitting it with sufficient electricity. I would like to have ideally 3600 watts of electricity in the future so I might as well configure now. that would be 6 600 watters. GFCI seems to be the way to go but what about for 3600 watts.


I was asking about GFCI simply because it's required by the NEC for garages. Wouldn't help load or anything like that but helps with grounding. As for the wiring, with the 110 that is there you could pull about 3500Watts if you installed one more 12-2 line, but if you had the money for the 12-3 wire then that would be your best option. With it you could wire two separete circuits both 20Amp and only have to run the one wire. (2 Phase, and 1 nutruel) That would easily handle your electrical load and leave the 110v line unused. A 10gauge wire would also work for your needs, so keep that in mind when checking prices. (12awg=20amps 10awg=30amps)


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## AquafinaOrbit (Sep 6, 2009)

potroast247 said:


> I have a question. I have 2 outlets (110v) running off of 2 different junction boxes in the attic. I will have 2 lights a 1000w HPS and a 1000w MH. The sockets are the ones with test/reset (gfci??). The wires from the attic boxes to the outlets are 12/2 600v. If I plug the lights into the sockets seperately, with some fans and blowers, should I be ok? What will cause the circuit breakers to trip. How many amps will the lights draw? I'm very confused on the whole electricity aspet of the grow room. I just want to make sure that my power outlets are sufficient for the above equiptment.
> 
> Thanks for any help.


If both lines are on their own breaker then yes. Formula for amps is Watts/voltage. So in your case you'd say 2000/110 = 18amps, and that would be the load of your lights.


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## crazysparky (Sep 6, 2009)

A GFIC has nothing to do with grounding it acts off the neutrail when it detects imbalance on the neutrail it will trip.


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## AquafinaOrbit (Sep 6, 2009)

The NEC would disagree with you since a GFCI is an acceptable substitute for a grounding conductor when replacing a 2 prong socket if you label it as a "No equipment ground". Of course it does not actually ground, it's not even run into the ground but it is very much related.


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## potroast247 (Sep 7, 2009)

AquafinaOrbit said:


> I was asking about GFCI simply because it's required by the NEC for garages. Wouldn't help load or anything like that but helps with grounding. As for the wiring, with the 110 that is there you could pull about 3500Watts if you installed one more 12-2 line, but if you had the money for the 12-3 wire then that would be your best option. With it you could wire two separete circuits both 20Amp and only have to run the one wire. (2 Phase, and 1 nutruel) That would easily handle your electrical load and leave the 110v line unused. A 10gauge wire would also work for your needs, so keep that in mind when checking prices. (12awg=20amps 10awg=30amps)


 
So if I were to run my current lines with the 12-3 wiring instead of the 12-2, I can pull 18+ amps without any issues?


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## AquafinaOrbit (Sep 7, 2009)

You could pull 20Amps with a single 12-2. 12-2(romex) is simply two twelve gauge conductors wrapped in the same casing. (1 wire for phase, other for neutral) A 12-3 is the same except it has 3 conductors so 1 neutral, 2 phase is an option. As the circuits can share the same neutral you would be able to wire 2x 20amp circuits; or a maximum of 40amps on the 12-3. 
14awg=15amps
12awg=20amps
10awg=30amps
Really theres a few ways to do it, and it call comes down to what your willing to spend/what you actually decide you need.


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## potroast247 (Sep 7, 2009)

Well as I've stated, I need to be running 1(1000w HPS), 1(1000w MH), 2 blowers(exhaust fans), oscillating fan and maybe some other minor things. So with the electrical setup I have, will I be ok? Once again it is 2 outlets, each outlet goes to a different junction box in the attic, and the wires from the attic to the outlets in the grow room are 12-2 600v wiring.

Sorry for being a pain.


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## SDSativa (Sep 7, 2009)

Hey, I don't really know who this question is aimed at, but thanks in advance. I am considering purchesing the CAP master lighting control 4-MLC-4aT. It says that you run 30 amp, 240v power into it, and am wondering what that would be. I'm no electrician, and was wondering if I would be able to hook it up myself? Or if I would need an electrician? Any info would be great, I really have no idea.


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## bobbychuck67 (Sep 7, 2009)

Thanks Brick for offering to anwer questions. I'm sure I will have some for you in future. For now I just want to add a few important tips. I'm NOT an electrician, but I am a lisenced architect so here goes:

1. If you are adding an outlet or just connecting 120v wires with those screw on caps, PLEASE use a junction box (J-box)! It's that square kind of octogon shaped metal box with round blanks on the side that you can punch out with a screwdriver and hammer. They are required by code for a reason. If connections come loose and spark they will not cause a fire. 

2. Reinforce the screw on caps by wraping them with black electrial tape

3. If overloaded, your outlet will not melt, but the circuit breaker connected to that outlet will trip. If the breaker (that black switch in the rectangular metal box outside your house) is always triping i.e. turning off the curcuit, you have too many amps drawing on it. The maximum is the number on the breaker. If you bypass or otherwize disable it you are at serious risk of fire!

Peace fellow growers.


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## choch (Sep 9, 2009)

Variac question. Is it safe to run multiple fans from a single variac rated for sufficient amperage to handle the load?

Household power is stepped down by the transformer on the pole, and we can use as many different devices as we wish as long as we don't exceed the amperage for a circuit. An autotransformer steps down voltage to your desired level, but can the power then be used in a similar fashion, or is a seperate variac needed for each device?

TIA for your time


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## VargasGirl (Sep 9, 2009)

Ok so I need some electrical help that I can't get from my right winged electrician. 

So I have a room built in my garage, that has 4 electrical outlets in it. Currently I have a Grow lab tent for my veg, with a t-5, water pump and fan plugged in. 

I also have 2 1000W lights that I need to plug in to start my flowering, but from everything I read i don't think my room has enough juice for all of this stuff that I need to run to have a successful grow without blowing fuses. 


My house has a hottub that is not in use, and in the breaker box it has it's own fuses labeled spa, is there some way that I can reroute that extra voltage (which I think is 240V) to my room easily?

Is there another way to get extra V's in there? 

I'm going to have my light balices outside of my room to keep it cooler.
I heard that there might be a way I can use the dryer plug with some sort of conversion? 

There is also something I saw online for like 150 bucks that says it converts 120V to 240V- but that seems too easy. 

I'm not afraid of spending a reasonable amount of money, but I want whatever will work the best.


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## mavs215 (Sep 10, 2009)

Hey Bricktown, Can I rewire a 2 plug 110 to make one 220?


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## abeezy (Sep 11, 2009)

Hi bricktown,

Quick question. Is it safe to cut up two extension cords, strip the ends and twist them together (hot with hot, ground with ground, ext...)......IF i completely cover the exposed wire in hot glue so nothing can touch it? 

Seems to me it would serve the same purpose as the insulating plastic around it.

Thanks, 
ABeezy


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## Karloff (Sep 11, 2009)

mavs215 said:


> Hey Bricktown, Can I rewire a 2 plug 110 to make one 220?


I haven't seen Brick on here for some time.
The only way you can use that wire is if it is a dedicated circuit with no other outlets on it before hand so it has to be the only outlet on that circuit then you can change it out at the panel shut off the breaker, remove the neutral wire (white) from the neutral bus making sure not to touch anything live, next remove the old breaker from the panel and install a 220 v. breaker of the same amps in it's place then connect the wires to the breaker, next with the breaker still off remove the old 120 volt receptacle or outlet (same thing) and replace with the proper 220 v. outlet.
Turn on and test.
If your original outlet is on with other stuff like lights or other 120 volt outlets than you have to run a new circuit if your not comfortable working in an electrical panel or have no experience working in one call an electrician to do it.


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## Karloff (Sep 11, 2009)

abeezy said:


> Hi bricktown,
> 
> Quick question. Is it safe to cut up two extension cords, strip the ends and twist them together (hot with hot, ground with ground, ext...)......IF i completely cover the exposed wire in hot glue so nothing can touch it?
> 
> ...


If your trying to cover the exposed splices use wire nuts but before you splice them tie the wires into a knot to keep them from being pulled apart should you snag them on something, but hot glue isn't a good Idea.


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## Karloff (Sep 11, 2009)

VargasGirl said:


> Ok so I need some electrical help that I can't get from my right winged electrician.
> 
> So I have a room built in my garage, that has 4 electrical outlets in it. Currently I have a Grow lab tent for my veg, with a t-5, water pump and fan plugged in.
> 
> ...


My best advice to you is to find a left winged electrician.
Don't take it the wrong way but if you have to ask you probably don't know how to do it.
You could really screw things up.
And should find an electrician who doesn't ask too many questions.


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## Karloff (Sep 11, 2009)

SDSativa said:


> Hey, I don't really know who this question is aimed at, but thanks in advance. I am considering purchesing the CAP master lighting control 4-MLC-4aT. It says that you run 30 amp, 240v power into it, and am wondering what that would be. I'm no electrician, and was wondering if I would be able to hook it up myself? Or if I would need an electrician? Any info would be great, I really have no idea.


You need an electrician to run a 30 amp 240 volt circuit for your ballast/ controller


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## DuckAttack (Sep 11, 2009)

Okay. I looked through 1/2 of the post and could not find someone who asked my question. 

"can you buy a 110v to 220v step-up box instead of running new wires? I have 2 1000Watt HPS but a butt load of other stuff and my breaker like most is rated at 15 amps. My Digital ballast can run both 110v and 220v. So I just wanted to buy a step up transformer I can plug into my rooms 110v outlets and plug the 2 1000 watt lights into the step-up box that can handle 2000 watt. I know 220 cuts your amps down quite a bit so wondering if this would work so I can use the same 15amp circuit.


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## DuckAttack (Sep 11, 2009)

Here is the link to the step up I am referring too.

http://www.dvdoverseas.com/store/index.html?loadfile=catalog6_0.htmlhttp://www.dvdoverseas.com/store/index.html?loadfile=catalog6_0.html


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## choch (Sep 11, 2009)

Wire nuts with electrical tape over them. Wrap the tape around the nut in the direction that will keep it tight. If you are planning to do that to just make one longer cord you should be ok.


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## choch (Sep 11, 2009)

DuckAttack said:


> Here is the link to the step up I am referring too.
> 
> http://www.dvdoverseas.com/store/index.html?loadfile=catalog6_0.htmlhttp://www.dvdoverseas.com/store/index.html?loadfile=catalog6_0.html



Quote from the page you linked to:

"*Note:* We do not recommend this voltage converter to use with hair products like hair dryers, blowers, curling irons, hair straightners. Also this converter is not good for use with items with heating elements such as coffeemakers, espresso/capuccino makers, percolators, heating pads, toasters, toaster ovens, rice cookers, tea kettles, hot plates, cloth irons, steamers etc.

*Note:* This transformer does not work for American 220 volt items like dryer, air conditioner, tanning bed to operate from standard 110 volt. "

Sounds to me like HID lighting is going to be a bad idea there...


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## mavs215 (Sep 11, 2009)

Allright, thanks for the advice Karloff. Do you think the savings in electricity is worth it to run a 400-600 watt light?


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## abeezy (Sep 13, 2009)

Karloff said:


> If your trying to cover the exposed splices use wire nuts but before you splice them tie the wires into a knot to keep them from being pulled apart should you snag them on something, but hot glue isn't a good Idea.



Ok thanks, ill do that from now on. Can you tell me why hot glue isn't a good idea?


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## Karloff (Sep 14, 2009)

mavs215 said:


> Allright, thanks for the advice Karloff. Do you think the savings in electricity is worth it to run a 400-600 watt light?


The amount of light you need will be based upon the number of plants your growing example if your only going to grow 1 or 2 plants you can get away with a 150 watt HPS but if your going to grow 4-6 plants you would probably want to step up to a 400 watt 6 plants and up 600 watt etc.
Without knowing the paticulars of your grow that would be my advice on a light.


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## Karloff (Sep 14, 2009)

abeezy said:


> Ok thanks, ill do that from now on. Can you tell me why hot glue isn't a good idea?


Generally speaking hot glue isn't a recognized insulator, there are insulators that are applied in a similar fashion in an industrial application and even rosins that can be mixed and used to insulate as well as make water tight, but that would be cost prohibitive.
While I don't think that there is any conductive material in the glue, and while it may not heat to a point of melting during use after it's applied it could soften causing problems (movement of the spliced wires) I wouldn't do it but it is an intersting Idea I would stick with tried and true methods.


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## larrytwo (Sep 14, 2009)

How can i use my 220 outlets?Brother im asking cause i need more light.Co medicanal grow


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## Karloff (Sep 14, 2009)

DuckAttack said:


> Here is the link to the step up I am referring too.
> 
> http://www.dvdoverseas.com/store/index.html?loadfile=catalog6_0.htmlhttp://www.dvdoverseas.com/store/index.html?loadfile=catalog6_0.html


I wouldn't use it without seeing the unit and reading its name plate.
But if I were to use something like this I would want to oversize it and get one that is about three times the rated load of my lights and a heavt duty model given that it will have to run for 16 hours a day every day during veg. and 12 hours a day during Bloom every day if it dies so do your plants.
In the long run you might be better served to have an electrician come in and run a couple of circuits for you, I know these gadjets look like they're the answer but quite often they're not well made and usually fail, very few have the "UL" rating if any.
I looked at the link you left and didn't see the "UL" rating while it may not be a big deal to you it would be to your insurance co. if this transformer failed and started a fire they look for any reason to get out of paying a claim.
Good luck.


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## larrytwo (Sep 14, 2009)

my ballasts are compatible with 220,plugs are different obviously,now how to tap into that circut,adapter plug?new cord?do they make a wall switch?I know i need an electican but in this world come on.saftey first


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## Milkman007 (Sep 14, 2009)

Hi bricktown, first of all this is an awesome thing you are doing for everyone here, thank you very much, I am setting up my first big grow room and I am not sure about electricity issues

I want to have a stadium setup, with 6 600 watt hps running down the middle, with ballasts, fans, timers and everything else I'm guessing the whole setup will run about 5000 watts, do you think that is a good estimate.

How do you recommend I satisfy these power needs, I've read about setting up a sub panel in the room and then running multiple circuits from that, is this hard/expensive to do. Would my house catch on fire if I tried to run all this from the wall sockets.

Thank you so much for any input from all the knowledgeable sources out there


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## Philo2 (Sep 15, 2009)

I have a quick question that I hope one of you electrical folks can answer for me. 

The wire for my central air conditioning unit runs right through my grow room. If possible I would like to install an outlet on to this wire. Do you think this is possible?

The breaker for the air conditioning is a 2 pole 20 amp breaker. Can I insert a standard outlet on to this wire? This is with the expectation that I will no longer be using the air conditioning unit. Basically I am trying to figure out if there is anything unique about a 2 pole 20 amp breaker compared to a single 20 amp breaker, is it still running a standard 110V or do you I need to install a 220V outlet? If so do you know anyone that makes a 40amp timer box that will convert the 220V to 110V?

Also outside by the air conditioning unit there is a two plug outlet. If need be I can run a plug into the house. Do you know how many amps I would get off this outlet? 

Do you have any advise on the best way to do this? The best outlet to use? Will I have access to the full 40 amps (2 * 20 amps). 

Thanks in advance for all of your help.


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## chongsbuddy (Sep 16, 2009)

Philo2 said:


> I have a quick question that I hope one of you electrical folks can answer for me.
> 
> The wire for my central air conditioning unit runs right through my grow room. If possible I would like to install an outlet on to this wire. Do you think this is possible?
> 
> ...


 i am setting up a 2600 k grow room or about 35 amps.the room wiil not handle that load,can someone tell me what kind of wire i need to run from the main breaker box to the growroom,and is 35 amps enough for 2600 watts plus fans and pumps and whatnot.what type of breaker do i need for the main box to hook the wire up?do i need to put a subpanel in the grow room,or something else.I CANNOT hire someone nor do i trust anyone to do the work for me,i have to do it myself,thats why i need some real technical support here guys!


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## mofizzle415 (Sep 16, 2009)

Beautiful Set-up brotha.... True professional!


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## Dcrunk33 (Sep 16, 2009)

Very Nice Setup, I'm looking to do the same with running 6x600w hids with only 3x600w ballasts hooked up to a relay and a timer box, how do I get this accomplished, I'm in a basement can pull a whole new circuit from the panel and have it nice and tidely like yours, the problem I'm having is understanding contractor relays and timers and how to hook it all up.


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## POLARIS01 (Sep 16, 2009)

I want to plug 2 400w hps , 1 425cfm inline fan , 1 oscillating fan to a power strip then in to 1 timer. what would be the amps of these? is it to much?


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## Mr.Karma (Sep 17, 2009)

[FONT=&quot]I am in the process of planning my first grow in my new place and needed some help with the electrical aspect of things. My setup will consists of 4x600watts lights, I estimate 6-8 pumps, 2-8 vortex fans, 2 oscillating fans, around 250w of HO lighting, 10,000btu a/c, dehumidifier, c02, environment controller, timers, ect. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Anyways, this will be a basement grow and I need a way to bring power to my basement. I contacted a local electrician and we quoted me around $600 for materials and labor to install a sub panel in my basement. I told him that I wanted 40-50amps wired up in my sub panel and the distance I want the sub panel is about 60' from my main panel and 1 floor below. Does his estimate sounds about right, honestly sounded a little cheap to me. Was expecting it to be more $$$$.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now my questions are as followed[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]What do I tell him if he asked what I need the panel for? I was planning to say that I wanted to finish my basement at a later date or possibly add a second kitchen/living room or maybe a home theater room. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I am planning to run (4)240 ballast but everything else will be 120v. How should I tell him to wire the panel up? What size breakers and how many of each. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Also, are there any certain brands or wire gauges I should ask for before the install? I want to make sure he's not cutting corners running cheap higher gauge wires.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thanks for all the help guys cant wait to get this up and running.[/FONT]


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 17, 2009)

Mr.Karma said:


> [FONT=&quot]I am in the process of planning my first grow in my new place and needed some help with the electrical aspect of things. My setup will consists of 4x600watts lights, I estimate 6-8 pumps, 2-8 vortex fans, 2 oscillating fans, around 250w of HO lighting, 10,000btu a/c, dehumidifier, c02, environment controller, timers, ect. [/FONT]
> [FONT=&quot]
> [/FONT]
> [FONT=&quot]Anyways, this will be a basement grow and I need a way to bring power to my basement. I contacted a local electrician and we quoted me around $600 for materials and labor to install a sub panel in my basement. I told him that I wanted 40-50amps wired up in my sub panel and the distance I want the sub panel is about 60' from my main panel and 1 floor below. Does his estimate sounds about right, honestly sounded a little cheap to me. Was expecting it to be more $$$$.[/FONT]
> ...


As far as excuses go. Don't offer unless asked. But think high power hobbies, pottery, machine shop, etc. gauge is dictate by code But copper being the preferred conductor (aluminum is still OK in some areas, but I wouldn't touch it) Up-ing the gauge a size is never a bad thing either.

($600 sounds a bit light for T&L)


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## LaMarr (Sep 17, 2009)

What I want to do is run two flowering rooms on the 12 hr. cycle using one ballast,how do you wire the relay switch to accomplish this ? Thank you in advance.


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## VictorVIcious (Sep 18, 2009)

LaMarr said:


> What I want to do is run two flowering rooms on the 12 hr. cycle using one ballast,how do you wire the relay switch to accomplish this ? Thank you in advance.


It requires a 'normally open' and 'normally closed' switch if you are talking about having the lights on one at a time. VV


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## aeroponicsROOKIE (Sep 18, 2009)

how can i use these lights in my room what suplys do i need


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## LaMarr (Sep 18, 2009)

I think I will need a lil more explanation,what is a 'normally open' 'normally closed' switch,& can I just go to an electrical shop & ask for that & they will automatically know what I'm talking about ?


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 19, 2009)

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/5B132



LaMarr said:


> I think I will need a lil more explanation,what is a 'normally open' 'normally closed' switch,& can I just go to an electrical shop & ask for that & they will automatically know what I'm talking about ?


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## LaMarr (Sep 19, 2009)

so I use this to go ALONG with the relay switch or INSTEAD of the relay switch or it IS the relay switch (non-electrician as yu can tell *hunched shoulders*)


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## xrandomshotx (Sep 19, 2009)

takes about 85 amps or so to melt a socket or switch, if your breaker fails to that point your house may spontaniously combust


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## theSDcollective (Sep 19, 2009)

Hey guys, in the process of setting everything up, I will be running 6 (1k) hps in the sealed flowering room (20x11x hooked up to a mlc-8xt 220v, and 12" vortex pushing the carbon filter and 2 8" vortex fans cooling the lights, planning on using the hydro-gen co2 gen using r/o filter waste water to cool. flowering room has a 2 ton ac hooked up. Running 3 tables with 1 pump per table.

veg. room (10x10xwill be hand watered, running 1 (1k) mh cooled with 8" ice box pulling r/o waste water and 2-3 t-5 4ft x 8 bulb florescents, and 1 ez-cloner, no ac.

I also have a 220v house purging fan that i am planning on using to clear the area out side of both rooms to keep the temps down. and a basic r/o filter supplying both rooms with agua.

from what I saw the breaker box supports 90 amps? im a laymen in terms of electrical so wondering if I will have to add another box, there are about 6-8 open 110v breakers now, can 2 of the 110v can be combined to support the 220v mlc-8xt? 

I really like the set up pics posted in the beginning and hope to be able to set up my power the same way, i want everything in this grow to be clean and done right! any help is appreciated, we are just about done with framing and pondering plumbing and electrical, would you recommend doing drywall then doing the electric? ballasts will be housed above the ceiling out of the room. should i install outlets in the ceiling for the t-5s and in the vicinity of the vent fans i will be using? 

sorry so scatterbrained, just trying to trouble shoot before the trouble.

thanks all


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## theSDcollective (Sep 19, 2009)

those smileys should be 8s, not sure what happened there


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## FreeLeaf (Sep 19, 2009)

Bricktown, Thanks for all the info 
Here is a stupid question...if you have a 600w digital ballast running a 250w light does it consume more power than if you used a 250w ballast to run the same light?

I only need a 250w now but might get a bigger ballast so I can upgrade in the future.
Thanks


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 19, 2009)

LaMarr said:


> so I use this to go ALONG with the relay switch or INSTEAD of the relay switch or it IS the relay switch (non-electrician as yu can tell *hunched shoulders*)


It is the switch. You hook a timer up to run the coil of it. Set it for 12/2. When its off, the power from the ballast will go to bulb #1 and when its on, it will go to bulb #2.

Power from the ballast goes to the common terminals. Bulb #1 gets the N.C. terminals, and Bulb #2 gets the N.O. terminals.


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## ghostsamurai25 (Sep 20, 2009)

I wanna turn and old five gallon water cooler into a small ac for my grow cab, do you have any experience with turning the compresor into an ac if so please advice me thanks


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## nmcpher (Sep 20, 2009)

Hey Bricktown.

Maybe you can help me. I want to use an old window fan (dual fans) and split them up for an intake and exhaust fan.

However, the wiring on these is complicated. Wondering if there is any way to run direct power to each fan and split them up.

Please see the diagram.

I need to know which wire on the fan is the power, and which is ground, to eliminate the switch.

Thanks in advance!


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## LaMarr (Sep 20, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> It is the switch. You hook a timer up to run the coil of it. Set it for 12/2. When its off, the power from the ballast will go to bulb #1 and when its on, it will go to bulb #2.
> 
> Power from the ballast goes to the common terminals. Bulb #1 gets the N.C. terminals, and Bulb #2 gets the N.O. terminals.


 thanks bra,I appreciate your help


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 21, 2009)

ghostsamurai25 said:


> I wanna turn and old five gallon water cooler into a small ac for my grow cab, do you have any experience with turning the compresor into an ac if so please advice me thanks


Unless its a tiny cab, don't bother.
I'd suggest using it to cool water, like it is doing now, and pumping the water through a radiator with a fan blowing through it. Would be more efficient and less trouble to do.


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 21, 2009)

LaMarr said:


> thanks bra,I appreciate your help


One thing to consider (though I'm not sure of but look good on paper) Is if its a HPS, you *might* need to cycle the power to the ballast its self, to get the igniter/cap to function properly.


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## aeroponicsROOKIE (Sep 21, 2009)

what suplys do i need to power my room i cant plug in to wall outlet so is there any way i could power these lights safely or else im just using 1 with 2 L.E.D ufos to help with the flowering.THANKS for ure help


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## JackHerer (Sep 21, 2009)

I have had the same 400W digital ballast for a couple months now, but I just switched from using the HPS bulb that came with it, to a MH bulb. I turned it on for minutes or so and it seemed to work fine, didnt get hot, but it did seem to make a louder high pitch buzzing noise than the other bulb. I wanted to check in here and make sure that is not a cause for concern before I turn on the new bulb for any significant amount of time...better safe than sorry


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## xswesx (Sep 21, 2009)

ok so I have this thermostat:

PECO TF115-001 Line Voltage Control - Heating/Cooling - SPDT - Open / Close on rise

basically im a wiring noob and looking for someone to tell me where to connect what color wise

I'm using the blue wire because it was for cooling. Inside the plastic connecter there's a metal tube that connects the wires. 

This is what I've done so far. The fan turns on initially when I set the thermostat to 110. When I turn the thermostat to the current room temp, it shuts down my entire outlet and throws the breaker which I then have to reset...

idk what im doing wrong. I know the wiring is messy ill clean it up once i know what is the correct config

pics:


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## LaMarr (Sep 21, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> One thing to consider (though I'm not sure of but look good on paper) Is if its a HPS, you *might* need to cycle the power to the ballast its self, to get the igniter/cap to function properly.


my plan was to run a ballast that operates both mh & hps,as stated before I am no electrician so you totally lost me with 'cycle the power to the ballast itself',upon reading your first answer my understanding was to run power to the ballast run the ballast to the relay & then run the relay to the lights,is this not correct ?, & thank you for your help.


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## Hogdady (Sep 22, 2009)

xswesx said:


> ok so I have this thermostat:
> 
> PECO TF115-001 Line Voltage Control - Heating/Cooling - SPDT - Open / Close on rise
> 
> ...


connect the black wire from your power cord to the black wire of the thermostat. connect the blue wire from the thermostat to the black wire of the fan. connect the white wire of your power cord to the white wire of your fan. connect the green wire of your power cord to the green wire of the thermostat and to the green wire of the fan.


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 23, 2009)

LaMarr said:


> my plan was to run a ballast that operates both mh & hps,as stated before I am no electrician so you totally lost me with 'cycle the power to the ballast itself',upon reading your first answer my understanding was to run power to the ballast run the ballast to the relay & then run the relay to the lights,is this not correct ?, & thank you for your help.


Are you trying to run one bulb then the other? (aka: only one on at any time?) Or both at the same time? There are switchable ballasts and there are dual ballasts. Switchable will only run one bulb at a time. Duals will run 2 bulbs at the same time.

As for the cycle power, its just turn off/turn on. HPS use a igniter and cap to fire the bulb. (they fire up slowly an MH only uses the cap) These may need to see nothing then power to operate correctly (but I also said I wasn't sure about that. The relay/contactor switching may not have enough 'off time' during the switching to fully collapse the coil of the ballast, and discharge the cap.. I know, too much info)

Going to a MH probably won't be much an issue.


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## buckd316 (Sep 23, 2009)

2000 watts should i upgrade anything electrical or is that not much power?


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## HypnoToad (Sep 23, 2009)

Where would be the best place to get the components for a DIY ballast (HPS 250W)?


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## LaMarr (Sep 24, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Are you trying to run one bulb then the other? (aka: only one on at any time?) Or both at the same time? There are switchable ballasts and there are dual ballasts. Switchable will only run one bulb at a time. Duals will run 2 bulbs at the same time.
> 
> As for the cycle power, its just turn off/turn on. HPS use a igniter and cap to fire the bulb. (they fire up slowly an MH only uses the cap) These may need to see nothing then power to operate correctly (but I also said I wasn't sure about that. The relay/contactor switching may not have enough 'off time' during the switching to fully collapse the coil of the ballast, and discharge the cap.. I know, too much info)
> 
> Going to a MH probably won't be much an issue.


Yes,actually I was planning on running the two rooms at different times, room 1 for twelve hours & switch off to the next room for twelve hours & then back to the first room & so on & so forth.That way the ballast would run 24 hrs. a day & there would be no 'warm' up wait time nor the tell tell energy spike as occurs when a ballast starts up & shuts off at the exact same time every day.


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## Hulk Nugs (Sep 24, 2009)

Was getting ready to buy a dehumidifier but the on i am going to buy does not have a temp control on it so i was thinking i could hook up a humidifier controller to it but not sure it would work right. Then i found this thread DIY Controller and was just going to go that way since i already have a humidifier and the controller, just need to get the relay and the dehumidifier. 

Not really sure how it would work though.....does the humidifier control turn off the humidifier after it reaches the set humidity then if the humidity raises more then that it will turn on the dehumidifier or .... does the dehumidifier turn on when the humidifier turn off by control and relay ??? 

If that makes since to anyone and you can help out i am all ears, just need to finish the control panel and i am back growing cant wait!!!!


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 24, 2009)

LaMarr said:


> Yes,actually I was planning on running the two rooms at different times, room 1 for twelve hours & switch off to the next room for twelve hours & then back to the first room & so on & so forth.That way the ballast would run 24 hrs. a day & there would be no 'warm' up wait time nor the tell tell energy spike as occurs when a ballast starts up & shuts off at the exact same time every day.


The warm up time on a HPS is not for the ballast to warm up, but the bulb.
MH, from what I've gathered doesn't have the warm up time. But will have a spike from the in-rush current.


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## ghostsamurai25 (Sep 25, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Unless its a tiny cab, don't bother.
> I'd suggest using it to cool water, like it is doing now, and pumping the water through a radiator with a fan blowing through it. Would be more efficient and less trouble to do.


Ok that sounds more efficient seeing as thats what its made for, how would i go about doing so. Im not very handy and could use a walk through on what would be needed and a how to.

Thanks


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 26, 2009)

ghostsamurai25 said:


> Ok that sounds more efficient seeing as thats what its made for, how would i go about doing so. Im not very handy and could use a walk through on what would be needed and a how to.
> 
> Thanks


If the water in the jug on top is cold, just cut a hole in the top (well bottom) of the jug, drop in a pump with hoses and your done.

Otherwise it may not be too do-able. it may only chill a small amount in the unit below the jug. In that case you can *try*.
Hook a hose the the spigot, an run to radiator. From the rad, go to the pump, pumping back to the jug. But the cooler part may not be able to keep up in its cooling capacity.

I had posted the idea to do basically this with a dorm fridge. Just keep the water in the fridge. It would probably get kinda warm over the course of the day, but should last for a 12/12, and can re-cool on the dark cycle.


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## elgalloloco (Sep 27, 2009)

I've got a 1000 watt hps balast but a little space to grow, was wondering if I can use a 250watt bulb to reduce the heat?


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 27, 2009)

elgalloloco said:


> I've got a 1000 watt hps balast but a little space to grow, was wondering if I can use a 250watt bulb to reduce the heat?


Not recommended. The ballast is a current limiting device.


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## maryjanemama (Sep 27, 2009)

bricktown73 said:


> Smoote pretty much nailed it. A surge protector is pretty much a multi outlet with a small replacable fuse in it. And you should be fine with a regular 14 guage wire extension chord to run what you need. Good explaination smoote.


maryjanemama here. This is my first post and my first gow room. I will try try to be clear. My total space is 5ft. 3in. by 7ft. I will have a 4ft. x 4ft. flower room. 1000w electronic ballast and a 1000w hps light for my flower room. I want to run a t5 floresantlight for my grow room, I have about 3ft by4ft. What do I need. The furnace is near and has two additional outlets. Also one light fixture in the room the entire space. HELP!!


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## Punisher101 (Sep 27, 2009)

hey brick me and my cousin have a question for you. We have a 1000 watt light that we will be using for our set up and we would appreciate some help on how to set up the safe and best way to do it .


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## elgalloloco (Sep 27, 2009)

I'm looking at a ballast right now called a HPMV ballast. it says it'll run a 100-400 HPS or 35-401 MH. 
I'm not really sure what it is... I only know that it's a 10th of the price of other ballasts i've looked at. here's a link: http://www.bltdirect.com/product.php?pid=6371
would I just need to connect the input to those three screws and run the cord from my e4 to the other end?
thanks +Reps


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## KnowledgeSeeker (Sep 29, 2009)

In my veg room I have an exhaust fan on a TMP-DNe temp sensor so it kicks on when it gets hot in the room and turns off when the temp drops to a set level. Outside temps have been low recently so it's not turning on as often as it was when I set it up. I'm concerned that my babies may not be getting enough CO2. Is there any way to turn it on every hour for 15 minutes and also have it respond to the temp sensor?


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## fureelz (Sep 29, 2009)

Is there a way to test how much current a particular breaker is pulling? How do I find out which lines are running to which room? I am trying to take the line running from a room and stop it before it gets to the room so I can add a couple sockets to the grow area without running a long extension cord thru the wall.


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## ojjuu77 (Sep 29, 2009)

Hey,
I am going to be running 6-600 watt lights and 1-400 watt light, as well as all the fans, co2 generator, pumps, ect.
I only have normal 120 outlets in the room right now. What do I need to run those lights?
Thanks Buddy


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## PoBox123 (Sep 29, 2009)

Yo Brick!

I need your help. I am almost finished with my room and ran into a problem. I have a Everstar Brand 10000 BTU portable AC unit and it keeps tripping my 15 amp breaker. I read the owners manuel, it draws 15 amps, what happens is, it turns on runs for a few minutes and then the compressor kicks on and it trips my breaker. WTF?? 

Could it be,I have the wrong kind of recepticle? Do i need a heavy duty one? I just wired a basic brown recepticle "$2.00" on there from Lowe's? Or is it maybe drawing more than 15 amps when the compressor kicks on? 

I bought the AC unit used, maybe it is bad? I'm no newbie, and it is a new grow room in a new house. 

Did they use the wrong gauge of wire when they wired the house?? I'm stumped. Please help.

Thanks,

Po.


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## nickbbad (Sep 29, 2009)

PoBox123 said:


> Yo Brick!
> 
> I need your help. I am almost finished with my room and ran into a problem. I have a Everstar Brand 10000 BTU portable AC unit and it keeps tripping my 15 amp breaker. I read the owners manuel, it draws 15 amps, what happens is, it turns on runs for a few minutes and then the compressor kicks on and it trips my breaker. WTF??
> 
> ...


If it draws 15 amps then you want it on a 20 amp breaker... You only want to use about 80% of what a breaker can handle this should solve your problem.


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## PoBox123 (Sep 29, 2009)

nickbbad said:


> If it draws 15 amps then you want it on a 20 amp breaker... You only want to use about 80% of what a breaker can handle this should solve your problem.


 
Here in lies the problem. I don't have a 20 amp outlet available. 
I'm no Electrician, but even I know you can't just put a 20amp breaker in the box. It will fry the wire and the box and maybe the house!!!


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 30, 2009)

fureelz said:


> Is there a way to test how much current a particular breaker is pulling? How do I find out which lines are running to which room? I am trying to take the line running from a room and stop it before it gets to the room so I can add a couple sockets to the grow area without running a long extension cord thru the wall.


Amp clamp.


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 30, 2009)

ojjuu77 said:


> Hey,
> I am going to be running 6-600 watt lights and 1-400 watt light, as well as all the fans, co2 generator, pumps, ect.
> I only have normal 120 outlets in the room right now. What do I need to run those lights?
> Thanks Buddy


You are going to need a few circuits. Each outlet in a room is not on its own breaker. Flip the breaker for the room and see if any other outlets are still live.


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 30, 2009)

PoBox123 said:


> Here in lies the problem. I don't have a 20 amp outlet available.
> I'm no Electrician, but even I know you can't just put a 20amp breaker in the box. It will fry the wire and the box and maybe the house!!!


You answered your own Q. different AC or get the breaker box to outlet rewired.


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## imbuzzncuzn! (Sep 30, 2009)

you dont want to use more than 16 amps on a 20 amp receptacle.


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## PoBox123 (Sep 30, 2009)

You answered your own Q. different AC or get the breaker box to outlet rewired. 


Maybe? But, I read the side of the A/C unit today while working on insulation in my room, it says on the unit it is uses 12.5 amps. again WTF? I have a 15 amp recipticle and 15 amp breaker and nothing else runs on that circuit. I plugged in today on fan mode and it ran all day. I was in there a 4-5 hours and it did not kick the breaker. It is only when the compressor kicks on that she BLOWS!!!

Can I use a 20amp recipticle on a 15 amp breaker? I have one in my toolbox. Your thoughts please. Anybody???


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## IAm5toned (Sep 30, 2009)

PoBox123 said:


> You answered your own Q. different AC or get the breaker box to outlet rewired.
> 
> 
> Maybe? But, I read the side of the A/C unit today while working on insulation in my room, it says on the unit it is uses 12.5 amps. again WTF? I have a 15 amp recipticle and 15 amp breaker and nothing else runs on that circuit. I plugged in today on fan mode and it ran all day. I was in there a 4-5 hours and it did not kick the breaker. It is only when the compressor kicks on that she BLOWS!!!
> ...


weak thermal element in the circuit breaker? id replace the breaker, first ,before i started going nuts. 
OR
if the compressor doesnt run at all, just kicks the breaker when it tries to startup... could be bad compressor motor


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## IAm5toned (Sep 30, 2009)

imbuzzncuzn! said:


> you dont want to use more than 16 amps on a 20 amp receptacle.


yep. and here's why:

120v x 20a = 2400w

2400w x 80%(continuous duty derating) = 1920 w

1920w/120v = 16 amps


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## saltedq (Sep 30, 2009)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


Thanx a lot man for doin this for everyone, I'm bout to move into a new place where I have a perfect extra room, my question is I plan on running a 400 watt hps w ballast and hood w fans for room and vent for hps lite through hood. Will the current outlets in the room hold or does some re wiring and extra whatever needed to be upgraded my buddy is an electrion and can help but rather get the info from you. When I move in on Monday I will have more exact details until then tell me what I need to look at find out so I can tell u what I am already worken w as is and what needs to be dne. Thanx again. My email is available to u if it makes it eaier to respond.


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 1, 2009)

PoBox123 said:


> You answered your own Q. different AC or get the breaker box to outlet rewired.
> 
> 
> Maybe? But, I read the side of the A/C unit today while working on insulation in my room, it says on the unit it is uses 12.5 amps. again WTF? I have a 15 amp recipticle and 15 amp breaker and nothing else runs on that circuit. I plugged in today on fan mode and it ran all day. I was in there a 4-5 hours and it did not kick the breaker. It is only when the compressor kicks on that she BLOWS!!!
> ...


inrush current


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 1, 2009)

saltedq said:


> Thanx a lot man for doin this for everyone, I'm bout to move into a new place where I have a perfect extra room, my question is I plan on running a 400 watt hps w ballast and hood w fans for room and vent for hps lite through hood. Will the current outlets in the room hold or does some re wiring and extra whatever needed to be upgraded my buddy is an electrion and can help but rather get the info from you. When I move in on Monday I will have more exact details until then tell me what I need to look at find out so I can tell u what I am already worken w as is and what needs to be dne. Thanx again. My email is available to u if it makes it eaier to respond.



for a 400 you should be fine. i suggest finding out what else in on that breaker.


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## punkrockdave (Oct 1, 2009)

hey man, this really has nothing to do with weed, but I needed some input on an electric problem im having, 

my electric meter spins normal (the dial on the meter) for about 3 rotations and then spins over twice as fast for about a rotation and a half,

I finally traced the cause to something in our stove, so my question is do you have any idea what could be causing it, the stove is only about 3 years old, any advice would be great,'

Thanks in advance -dave


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## IAm5toned (Oct 1, 2009)

that is what we call an unbalanced or non-linear load in action my friend..... google the two terms


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## KnowledgeSeeker (Oct 1, 2009)

KnowledgeSeeker said:


> In my veg room I have an exhaust fan on a TMP-DNe temp sensor so it kicks on when it gets hot in the room and turns off when the temp drops to a set level. Outside temps have been low recently so it's not turning on as often as it was when I set it up. I'm concerned that my babies may not be getting enough CO2. Is there any way to turn it on every hour for 15 minutes and also have it respond to the temp sensor?


Hmm... anyone got any ideas on this?


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## PoBox123 (Oct 1, 2009)

Ok, after climbing all through my attic on a 90 degree day, 100 + in attic. I finally figured out the outlet I was trying to use had other things attched to it, and that is why my Portable AC unit was kicking the breaker. In my discovery of the attic I also found a 20 amp wire that led to a outlet in my house that has nothing else on it. That's a good thing.

I tried to pull the wire up the wall into the attic to splice more wire to it, to get the wire where I need it to be. It would not budge. It must be nailed or something inside the wall halfway up.

My question is. Can I turn off the breaker to that outlet and then cut the wire in the attic and splice it with wire nuts and then using the same gauge wire pull the connected wire where I need it to be?

If not, do I have to add some kind of box in the attic where I'm going to splice the wires together? 

If yes, what kind of box and can someone show a picture or drawing of what I need to do. 

I am retarded when it comes to electricty.

Thanks everybody, I really need the help.

Po.


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 2, 2009)

KnowledgeSeeker said:


> Hmm... anyone got any ideas on this?


An 'OR' will work.

You use the temp control and a timer. If either are 'active' it runs the fan.
Just make sure both are fed from the same phase in the house and the hot and neutral are wired correctly.


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 2, 2009)

Code states the distance between the staples securing the wire to studs. So yes, its nailed down.
Considering your last statement, might be bet to get a qualified electrician to relocate the outlet. (I'm not trying to be a prick, but messing with this stuff can lead t bad results. But then its not rocket science either)

Home Depot as a good book on DIY wiring.



PoBox123 said:


> Ok, after climbing all through my attic on a 90 degree day, 100 + in attic. I finally figured out the outlet I was trying to use had other things attched to it, and that is why my Portable AC unit was kicking the breaker. In my discovery of the attic I also found a 20 amp wire that led to a outlet in my house that has nothing else on it. That's a good thing.
> 
> I tried to pull the wire up the wall into the attic to splice more wire to it, to get the wire where I need it to be. It would not budge. It must be nailed or something inside the wall halfway up.
> 
> ...


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## doowmd (Oct 2, 2009)

can u tell me how to rig up a computer fan using old power cords? i'm, wanting to make a dry box w/ em and dont know what i'm doing wrong and dont want to burn the house down! some have three wires another just 2. thx in advance!


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## Standards (Oct 2, 2009)

doowmd said:


> can u tell me how to rig up a computer fan using old power cords? i'm, wanting to make a dry box w/ em and dont know what i'm doing wrong and dont want to burn the house down! some have three wires another just 2. thx in advance!


Try and find an old computer PSU as these have on/off switches. Cut a red wire (+5 V) and splice it to one of the fan wires and tape the bare wires. You don't need the yellow wire (+ 12 V) . Cut a black wire coming from the PSU and splice it to the other fan wire.

If you have a newer type of PSU (ATX) it will be a little trickier. You could find the on off switch (usually a green wire) and short it against a black wire to turn it on or you could use a motherboard and set everything up inside. There should be labels on the front of the MB that tell you where to plug in On/Off, Reset, LED lights and such.
It's up to you how to power the fans because there are many places to plug the fans in.


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## nugbuckets (Oct 2, 2009)

hey bro, thanks for working this thread. Where can I get some inexpensive 4 inch fans for a 3 by 3 by 5? And what do I use for a thermo on switch for the intake? Thanks in advance
Peace


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## KnowledgeSeeker (Oct 2, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> An 'OR' will work.
> 
> You use the temp control and a timer. If either are 'active' it runs the fan.
> Just make sure both are fed from the same phase in the house and the hot and neutral are wired correctly.


Thanks BigBudBalls. For the electrically challenged (me), can you elaborate on the 'OR'. Is that how they are wired or an additional device?


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 2, 2009)

KnowledgeSeeker said:


> Thanks BigBudBalls. For the electrically challenged (me), can you elaborate on the 'OR'. Is that how they are wired or an additional device?


An 'OR' is a control that allows either A and/or B turn on C.
and 'AND' needs both A & B to turn on C
and a 'XOR' (exclusive OR) can only have A or B turn on C (if A & B are on, C will still be off)

ORs are easiest to do, power gets fed from 2 sources to the device
(but like I said, needs wired right polarity-wise hot vs neutral. mix them up and you will pop breakers.)


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## PoBox123 (Oct 2, 2009)

Man what an ordeal. You are correct, It's a pain. But, I finally got it. I had to spend another day crawling around in the insulation. I think I have become immune to fiberglass.

I followed the wire from the plug to the panel, the "other" wire I thought was there in the wall was indeed hooked to a GFI outlet. But, I traced it back, and put it in a box nailed to a stud in the attic then pulled it to my room hooked it up and IT WORKS!!!!!

Praise the Lord!, how I ever kept from getting shocked is a mystery to me. I was crawling on top of hot wires for three days. Very scary.

We all know growing weed is dangerous, I think I took it to a new level. 

Thanks to all for advice.

Po.


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## newtothis13 (Oct 7, 2009)

So I'm trying to run 4k watts in flower and 1k watts in veg. I have a dedicated 30-amp 240v dryer outlet that I will be plugging these 5 1k watt lights into to run off 240v, which comes out to be 23-24 amps. Which is 80% of the circuit running continuously, so it shouldn't flip the breaker if I'm correct. I have a 20 amp breaker that comes into the rooms as well and I plan on also running 16 amps continuously, so the same goes with the breaker in that it shouldn't flip. I also then have a 15 amp circuit which will run 9 amps continuously for these rooms and the remaining amps for house lights, always keeping it limited to 80% of the circuit. I also determined the load of the other random things (modem,router,fridge,computers,dishwasher) that will possibly be continuously running during peak usage to be about 21 amps. Then the stove has it's 50 amp breaker as well. My question is:

I've got an old ass panel that has no main breaker (no disconnect anywhere) and I'm not entirely sure of the ampacity of the service entrance cable. The only limiting factor of the electrical service that I could find was that the service panel says "70 amp mains". Does this mean that there are two 70 amp legs coming in supplying the house with 140 amps of main service, *OR* is the combined amperage coming into the panel distributing 70 amps main service. I had a friend that's an electrician tell me it was #6 gauge CU service entrance wire. 

Essentially, I'm trying to determine what the limiting factor of the electrical service is compared to the possible continuous load that I might be demanding. 

If I'm pulling all of this during flowering:
-24 amps on 30 amp dryer circuit
-16 amps on 20 amp circuit
- 9 amps on 15 amp circuit
Totaling to be: *49 amps *possibly continuous during Flowering

If my main service really is only 70 amps and the continuous load can only be 80%, which is 56 amps, that only leaves 7 amps free. It also only leaves 21 total amps free, correct? Therefore, if I was to run 20+ amps from the range, not flipping that 50 amp breaker, and be pulling over 70 amps total...would that likely lead to a fire or would the main panel somehow magically without a main breaker limit the panel from pulling more than 70 amps?

I know probably not all of the amps during flowering will be pulled continuously, but I'm just trying to be extra safe without a main breaker so I don't overheat the wires. The 16 and 9 amps separate from the lights will power fans, A/C, dehumidifier/humidifier. So, some won't be running at max capacity all the time.

Thanks so much! This has been driving me crazy and it's preventing me from taking on something that I've been waiting 2 years for!


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## SOUTHBUDS (Oct 8, 2009)

ive been reading for hours and I think I got it down but if you could break it down for me here id REALLY appreciate it.

I need to know how and what i need to wire 3 cfl sockets together to all 3 run to the same plug.

Im trying to make my own CFL fixture like this but have never dealt with any electric work at all.

Thanks,


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## seaofgreenpatientgroup (Oct 8, 2009)

dude, im glad your doing this! alot of growers need help seting up electrical boxes. every grow needs to be wired corectly.


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## Th3p3st24 (Oct 8, 2009)

Any Idea where I can find a mogul to medium base light socket adapter? Preferably a hardware store as I cant order anything off the internet


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## rt5 (Oct 8, 2009)

Hey, I got an easy question. Is it ok to run a fan through a speed control and a CAP cooling thermostat so the fan only goes on when it needs to?


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## mjr99 (Oct 12, 2009)

Just wondering if this hack job my buddy did for me would be considered a fire hazard and if i should get it done again. Thanks.


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## andrewdickson (Oct 13, 2009)

bedroom grow. 10x10, 15 amp circuit. I've got 1000 watts on a 12/12 switch running all day. Then I've got a Big Bastardly extension cord running a few feet to the bathroom circuit on a 12/12 switch of 1K as well. Total in room is 4K watts. 


Safe or unsafe? What is the general consensus on running 1k ballast through extension cords in to other circuits?


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## phatsexygirlz (Oct 13, 2009)

Hey! i'm planning my indoor grow right now and wanted to ask you about an electrical product i plan on using since i already own it. Its called a quick 220, basically you just plug the two cords into 110 volt outlets and it combines the power to make a 220 or 240 volt outlet. heres the link

:http://www.eaglesystem.biz/quick220.html

this would perfect for my situation because i already have a ballast with 240 volt ONLY cords. i have the dual 600 watt lumatek ballast(its just two 600 watt ballasts built into one) so i'm just wondering if you think that it would be safe to run 2400 watts (and 10 volts, i think) off of one of these cheap little converters for 12 to 18 hours a day


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## phatsexygirlz (Oct 13, 2009)

i also don't want to do this setup if its going to draw power away from the lights, and make them not as strong.


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 13, 2009)

Can't be just any 2 outlets. Would have to be each outlet fed from one phase of the house.



phatsexygirlz said:


> Hey! i'm planning my indoor grow right now and wanted to ask you about an electrical product i plan on using since i already own it. Its called a quick 220, basically you just plug the two cords into 110 volt outlets and it combines the power to make a 220 or 240 volt outlet. heres the link
> 
> :http://www.eaglesystem.biz/quick220.html
> 
> this would perfect for my situation because i already have a ballast with 240 volt ONLY cords. i have the dual 600 watt lumatek ballast(its just two 600 watt ballasts built into one) so i'm just wondering if you think that it would be safe to run 2400 watts (and 10 volts, i think) off of one of these cheap little converters for 12 to 18 hours a day


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## videobud (Oct 13, 2009)

THANKS Brickman. vb


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## Trazzer (Oct 13, 2009)

Hey there, Im pretty good at electrical but our problem is our 200amp main panel has every slot full.

So first Question
We are running a total of around 9000 watts of light, a 22,000 btu AC, a 1HP chiller, 3 8 in blowers, 4 6in and a 4 in. plus the normal pumps, and fns and shit. so the question is do you think 120amps is a good safe side estimation for all that or is it to high?

Second question
So how do I wire it to my already full panel?
I saw a wire tap online, can I call edison to have them shut off power while I tap it? good or bad idea? help...


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 14, 2009)

Trazzer said:


> Second question
> So how do I wire it to my already full panel?
> I saw a wire tap online, can I call edison to have them shut off power while I tap it? good or bad idea? help...


There are quad breakers at the size of a double. Used just for this situation. One will probably be a 240V the other two 120's.


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## Trazzer (Oct 15, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> There are quad breakers at the size of a double. Used just for this situation. One will probably be a 240V the other two 120's.


If Im understanding you right, your saying run the sub panel off a 100amp or so breaker?
the problem is I do not have any more breaker slots, there is tons of electrical in this house and none can be combined..

Wish break would chime back in....


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## captin prang (Oct 15, 2009)

alrite brickman everytime I turn my light/ballast on all the sockets in my house trip and I have to turn it back on at the mains,ive changed fuses an that but dont really know what else to try,any help would be great cheers


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## sgt.stiffy (Oct 15, 2009)

ok so im growing 5 plants under a 225 strip full spectrum led panel, and i also run a cfl light the size of my head(not sure the watts on it). both light sources dont create much heat.
i grow in my shed, and its getting chilly, living in new england.
what do you sudgest i use to heat up my area, and not destroy my electricity bill?


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## Trazzer (Oct 15, 2009)

sgt.stiffy said:


> ok so im growing 5 plants under a 225 strip full spectrum led panel, and i also run a cfl light the size of my head(not sure the watts on it). both light sources dont create much heat.
> i grow in my shed, and its getting chilly, living in new england.
> what do you sudgest i use to heat up my area, and not destroy my electricity bill?



Ha I would recommend a HPS or MH light, maybe a 150 or 250. the reason is although LEDs and CFLs are cool and good and produce a different result but the fact is they both have little or no canopy penatration. ur lucky if you askin for heat, I have way to much haha...


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 15, 2009)

Trazzer said:


> If Im understanding you right, your saying run the sub panel off a 100amp or so breaker?
> the problem is I do not have any more breaker slots, there is tons of electrical in this house and none can be combined..
> 
> Wish break would chime back in....


No not a sub panel. If you look in your panel, you will see a 240 breaker or two. Looks like two single breakers with the lever bridged to the other one.

They make a quad, that is 4 breakers that takes up the room of a double. Basically 1/2 width.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=212677-82364-BQ220220&lpage=none

1/2" (1/2 thickness single):
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=71914-76863-THQP120&lpage=none


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## Trazzer (Oct 16, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> No not a sub panel. If you look in your panel, you will see a 240 breaker or two. Looks like two single breakers with the lever bridged to the other one.
> 
> They make a quad, that is 4 breakers that takes up the room of a double. Basically 1/2 width.
> 
> ...


Yea all of those are filled too, its maxed out at over 200amps haha but thanks for you responses.


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## AquafinaOrbit (Oct 16, 2009)

I don't think you understand what hes saying. (Or maybe I'm the confused one) What hes talking about is a slim breaker .5" rather then the typical 1" size. Meaning you can replace a current 1" breaker with two .5" breakers and double the amount of circuits you are able to run. The thing to consider is that typically the panel board will only list a few spaces where this is an acceptable practice, and it's generally the bottom section. (I didn't actual read what you guys are talking about, and sounds like you may be talking about the 240v ones but it's same concept)


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 17, 2009)

Trazzer said:


> Yea all of those are filled too, its maxed out at over 200amps haha but thanks for you responses.


You saying your entire pane is filled all with 1/2" breakers?


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## mrduke (Oct 18, 2009)

hey BBB can i run 2 1000's of a 20 amp breaker???


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 18, 2009)

mrduke said:


> hey BBB can i run 2 1000's of a 20 amp breaker???


Lets see:

2 X 1000W bulbs = 2000W
2 X ballast using 10% of the bulbs more = 200W
thats 2200W

Divide that by 120volts

2200W / 120V = 18.3 Amps

Now a 20A breaker minus the 20% = 16 amps of practical load

Your a bit over what you should be. Staggering the turning on can help (let one fully light up before turning on the next)
But use that at your own risk!

Also make it a dedicated outlet. typical breakers run multiple outlets in a house (only saying this because I see a lot of people forget that here)


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## mrduke (Oct 18, 2009)

it is a dedicated outlet but i think I'll do it on seperate circuts thanks


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## scotthmt (Oct 20, 2009)

I want to run a seperate breaker box into the house/room, i have a sentinel light controller that plugs into my ballasts and has 8 outlets, saying i used all 8 outlets with 1000w HPS lights using 220v, what size breaker would i need, how would i wire it up? Is this too broad of a question and should i just go buy a book?


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## drunknhero (Oct 20, 2009)

Hey there, I don't have a main shut off and the only way I can shut off my power is by scheduling it with the electrical company. So I want to know if I can add a breaker without turning off the power to the panal. Would shutting off all breakers make it safe to do? Will i get shocked adding the nuetral and ground wires to there bus bars?


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## drunknhero (Oct 20, 2009)

scotthmt... you need a 100amp breaker for that... atleast...


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## IAm5toned (Oct 20, 2009)

scotthmt said:


> I want to run a seperate breaker box into the house/room, i have a sentinel light controller that plugs into my ballasts and has 8 outlets, saying i used all 8 outlets with 1000w HPS lights using 220v, what size breaker would i need, how would i wire it up? Is this too broad of a question and should i just go buy a book?


you need 2 (20) amp 240v breakers. 2 lights on each one would be best....


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 20, 2009)

scotthmt said:


> I want to run a seperate breaker box into the house/room, i have a sentinel light controller that plugs into my ballasts and has 8 outlets, saying i used all 8 outlets with 1000w HPS lights using 220v, what size breaker would i need, how would i wire it up? Is this too broad of a question and should i just go buy a book?


Thats 40 amps of lights/ballasts @ 220.

Go grab the Home Cheapo book on wiring. With that much current, better do it right. Or get a electrician. If he asks, its for a workshop.


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 20, 2009)

drunknhero said:


> Hey there, I don't have a main shut off and the only way I can shut off my power is by scheduling it with the electrical company. So I want to know if I can add a breaker without turning off the power to the panal. Would shutting off all breakers make it safe to do? Will i get shocked adding the nuetral and ground wires to there bus bars?


_I've popped in breakers on a live panel. (hell, I've wired up light switches live. don't recommend it!) If they snap in (most if not all do) should be no prob. neutral is tied to ground, so it should be safe. But I've always had that uneasy feeling poking around in the panel. (probably what keeps me alive, complacency leads to accidents.) And those center strips are live. Leave the breaker in off position while you hook in the hot lead to the output side, of course._


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## dynamitejack (Oct 20, 2009)

Can I safely run a 1000w ballast, 2 six inch fans, 1 four inch fan, 2 oscillating fans, 3 40w fluorescent lights, 2 air pumps and a C02 regulator in a bed room with a 15 amp breaker?


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 21, 2009)

dynamitejack said:


> Can I safely run a 1000w ballast, 2 six inch fans, 1 four inch fan, 2 oscillating fans, 3 40w fluorescent lights, 2 air pumps and a C02 regulator in a bed room with a 15 amp breaker?


add up all the watts divide by the voltage (120 for N.A. 230 for Euro)
and take 20% off the breaker


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## NinjaToke (Oct 21, 2009)

84 pages is too long to search for a simple question, i have asuncourt 6" in-line fan and want to wire it to a power cord so it can be ran on timer. It has 1 black/white/green wire on it, I have a spare two wire cord (black/white only) can this be wired together?


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 22, 2009)

NinjaToke said:


> 84 pages is too long to search for a simple question, i have asuncourt 6" in-line fan and want to wire it to a power cord so it can be ran on timer. It has 1 black/white/green wire on it, I have a spare two wire cord (black/white only) can this be wired together?


Black is hot, white is neutral (required to operate) green is a ground, optional, its a safety item. If the fan body is metal, there is a possible potential of getting a zap from touching it while on. but highly unlikely.


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## NinjaToke (Oct 22, 2009)

Can the green ground be grounded somewhere?


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## koukoutsi3 (Oct 22, 2009)

hello guys.

how can i connect this lamp http://www.prismaecat.lighting.philips.com/ecat/Light/ApplicationRouter.aspx?fh_secondid=927912783014_2&fh_reftheme=en_GR_promo_75141085%2cseeall%2c%2f%2fprof%2fen_GR%2fcategories%3c%7bfepplg%7d%2fcountries%3e%7ben_GR%7d%2fstatus%3e%7bact%7d%2fcategories%3c%7bc_0002fepplg_75_ep01%7d%2fcategories%3c%7bc_0032fepplg_1156_ep01lcfn%7d%2fcategories%3c%7bc_0032fepplg_1170_ep01lplt%7d&fh_location=%2f%2fprof%2fen_GR%2fcategories%3c%7bfepplg%7d%2fcountries%3e%7ben_GR%7d%2fstatus%3e%7bact%7d%2fcategories%3c%7bc_0002fepplg_75_ep01%7d%2fcategories%3c%7bc_0032fepplg_1156_ep01lcfn%7d%2fcategories%3c%7bc_0032fepplg_1170_ep01lplt%7d%2fcategories%3c%7bf_0042fepplg_1170_phl_cplt4pxa%7d&fh_eds=%c3%9f&fh_refview=lister&tab=&family=&&left_nav=gr_el&

to a simple ES capbase... any link or video? thanks


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 22, 2009)

NinjaToke said:


> Can the green ground be grounded somewhere?


Any metal plumbing pipe is a ground. (as long as there is no plastic section between it and the city supply.


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## JohnQPub (Oct 24, 2009)

Why does this master light controller say that it's capable of powering 24 1000w lights with 120 amps? Using my kill-a-watt I measured the amperage coming off my 1000w digital ballast: 8.3. By my math, 8.3 x 24= 199.2 amps. Am I calculating something incorrectly or is that product description bullshit?


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 24, 2009)

JohnQPub said:


> Why does this master light controller say that it's capable of powering 24 1000w lights with 120 amps? Using my kill-a-watt I measured the amperage coming off my 1000w digital ballast: 8.3. By my math, 8.3 x 24= 199.2 amps. Am I calculating something incorrectly or is that product description bullshit?


Now divide that by 2. (240VAC is required not 120)


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## NinjaToke (Oct 24, 2009)

I have a question about my garages power supply being sufficient. I have 1x4OOwatt lamp, 2xSquirrel cage fans, 1x small desktop fan,1x waterpump and an ac unit. I know all this running off of one plug is too much so I connected the ac to a surge protector on a seperate plug. I thought my problem was fixed when I realized all plugs in my garage come from one main spot, will there be a problem?


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## GoinGreen09 (Oct 25, 2009)

I'm trying to hook all my lights up to 240. I thought I had more 240s in my house then I do apparently. I've got 3 plugs that are 3 prong that I believed were 240 that was used for window ac units but now that I'm researching I think they are just a different 120 plug. ( I'll try and get pics later when I get home)

so now it appears the only 240 I have is my dryer outlet. So here is my question, will I be able to run a 400 watt, and a 1k ballast as well as be able to still use my dryer? And if so, how can I split it off to be able to do this. The breaker for that plug is 30amp but I'm not sure how much a standard dryer uses. If I can't run all of them at the same time I guess I can just use my dryer when the lights are off but that might be I convenient sometimes. Thanks for any input.


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## SuperCali420 (Oct 29, 2009)

100 vs. 220: 

I currently have one 1000 watt light running on a 110 volt line and I plan on adding a second 1000 watt light. I have conflicting advice as to whether adding/changing to a 240 volt line will reduce my electric bill. One side says that adding a 240 volt line will reduce my electric costs in half...because they claim that you can run two 1000 watt lights on a 240 volt line for the same price you can run one 1000 watt light on a 110 volt line. The equation they quote is 110volt line: one 1000 watt light divided 120 volts = 8.33 amps....240 volt line: 2 1000 watt lights (2000watts) divided by 240 volts = 8.33 amps. They say that it is the amps (in California) that the electric company charges you for...and therefore you can run two 1000 watts lights on a 240 volt line for the same price as running one 1000 watt on a 110 volt line.

Is this true?? Could someone please advise?


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## tactownryder (Oct 29, 2009)

how many lumens do 17 watt fluourecent tubes put off? is four tubes enough for three plants in a row? 2 " above plants?


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 29, 2009)

You will never see the cost benny of going to 220. its there but so small, just leaving the fridge open too long once and the savings is gone.

watts is watts is power.
10 amps @120 = 1200Watts
5 amps @220 = 1200watts.

you buy watts, not amps.



SuperCali420 said:


> 100 vs. 220:
> 
> I currently have one 1000 watt light running on a 110 volt line and I plan on adding a second 1000 watt light. I have conflicting advice as to whether adding/changing to a 240 volt line will reduce my electric bill. One side says that adding a 240 volt line will reduce my electric costs in half...because they claim that you can run two 1000 watt lights on a 240 volt line for the same price you can run one 1000 watt light on a 110 volt line. The equation they quote is 110volt line: one 1000 watt light divided 120 volts = 8.33 amps....240 volt line: 2 1000 watt lights (2000watts) divided by 240 volts = 8.33 amps. They say that it is the amps (in California) that the electric company charges you for...and therefore you can run two 1000 watts lights on a 240 volt line for the same price as running one 1000 watt on a 110 volt line.
> 
> Is this true?? Could someone please advise?


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## smartguy345 (Oct 31, 2009)

Hey I have a question can I use this ( below is pic ) on a power surge of some sort without risking any electrical problems? Granted I would have to make sure I do not pull to much watts, but I am only looking at using 3 26 or 42 w fluros on a one surge protector or something simliar.

If i can use that without having any problems, If glued that adaptor to the outlet of choice what can I use that is safe, glue wise?? 

I ask this because my wall outlets, for some reason everytime I plug something in it fits real loose not snug, lol, and is aggravating. Of course I wont have this problem with a new surge protector, but just to be on safe side.

What I have been doing now , and I hope is safe, I have been using 16 gauge electrical extension cords and been running them thru the attic to my grow area, to spread out the electricity that is being used in grow area. I wanted to be on safe side, so I have my portable ac on one breaker, my fan on another, as well lights. I plan on using my laundry room for the fluros as the laundry room is on a 220 and I am not using it at all for any washing! nada.. so i can run up a heavy duty extentsion cord to my grow op and pull off quite a few amps off of that. 

Is that safe? The extentsion cords are not drawing more amps then what it says it can handle. So I figured it wouldnt be but I just want to be on the safe side and take all the proper precautions.




a que


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## smartguy345 (Oct 31, 2009)

I also wanted to add that I plan on wiring some cpu fans to some standard 12v charging adapaters.. I am not sure how many fans I can run per adapter, I guess I have to check amps on fan and adapter. however when doing the wiring for this, any friendly suggestions to prevent forest fires?

I may seem a lil ocd here, but I like to take all the proper precautions and ensure my investment is safe. I mean I have done it before and all I did was strip the wire to expose it connect to adapter then put electrical tape over it. However I was thinking about using 4-6 cpu fans on a 2 foot wood strip of some sort. All pointed at certain angles to ensure proper ventilation and to generate enough wind to move the plants. I already have a air purifier, a wall fan, and a large stand up oscilliating fan, i just wanted to get some more smaller fans in .


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## d1zl3 (Nov 1, 2009)

smartguy345 said:


> I also wanted to add that I plan on wiring some cpu fans to some standard 12v charging adapaters.. I am not sure how many fans I can run per adapter, I guess I have to check amps on fan and adapter. however when doing the wiring for this, any friendly suggestions to prevent forest fires?
> 
> I may seem a lil ocd here, but I like to take all the proper precautions and ensure my investment is safe. I mean I have done it before and all I did was strip the wire to expose it connect to adapter then put electrical tape over it. However I was thinking about using 4-6 cpu fans on a 2 foot wood strip of some sort. All pointed at certain angles to ensure proper ventilation and to generate enough wind to move the plants. I already have a air purifier, a wall fan, and a large stand up oscilliating fan, i just wanted to get some more smaller fans in .


im not an electrician... far from it, but i got 5 12V fans connected to a 120V power supply, just like a phone charger but a bit bigger, and everything has been running smooth for about a week.


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## smartguy345 (Nov 1, 2009)

sweet thanks for that info, perhaps someone will give me input on my other questions. Yea I think those cpu fans are bad ass. There small quiet and portable. allows me to create a small draft in grow room. I am doing is creating a vortex like wind. Meaning that the air will circulate around the grow room to ensure there is no stale air and that plenty of fresh air is brought in.


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## lowerarchy (Nov 2, 2009)

Sorry folks in this question has already been asked and answered, but this thread is long and there's a ton of stuff to go through. 

I've got some 24W T5 fluorescent lights, 2' long. They can be pigtailed together. I ran five of them successfully for a few months just plugged right into a 15 amp wall outlet. The other day I rerouted a 20amp baseboard heater wire to a duplex receptacle. It seems to run air pumps and water pumps fine but when I plug a fluorescent into it it blows the built-in ballast. The tube remains functional, but there's this zapping sound and the light won't work anymore. I checked my wiring, removed some downstream receptacles from the circuit and tried it again, this time with only one fixture, and it blew the light. 

I'm not very experienced with electrical wiring or lights so perhaps I've made some glaring error. Everything I looked at online said you could run 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp circuit. The wire gauge I've used is 12/3. Can't figure out what's going wrong. The only thing I can think of is voltage drop because the wiring does take a circuitous route through the house to get to where it needs to be. 

Anyway, any input appreciated.


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## Garrettg1 (Nov 2, 2009)

will normal lightbulbs ( non flourescent )work for the beginning stage, after germinated and in the pots, i am getting one eventually but i have sprouted seeds now and only normal lamps/lights.


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## AquafinaOrbit (Nov 3, 2009)

lowerarchy said:


> Sorry folks in this question has already been asked and answered, but this thread is long and there's a ton of stuff to go through.
> 
> I've got some 24W T5 fluorescent lights, 2' long. They can be pigtailed together. I ran five of them successfully for a few months just plugged right into a 15 amp wall outlet. The other day I rerouted a 20amp baseboard heater wire to a duplex receptacle. It seems to run air pumps and water pumps fine but when I plug a fluorescent into it it blows the built-in ballast. The tube remains functional, but there's this zapping sound and the light won't work anymore. I checked my wiring, removed some downstream receptacles from the circuit and tried it again, this time with only one fixture, and it blew the light.
> 
> ...



Little confused on exactly what you mean here, but I'll answer what I got. 
Firstly no you cannot run a 15Amp receptacle on a 20amp circuit, what you can do is run a 15amp appliance on a 20amp circuit. A 15amp recepticle is designed around the heat 15amps of power brings, so when connected to a 20amp circuit it start to malfunction and can even melt creating if not shorts or opens then fire. 
Also 12/3 is a romex cable with a red, white, black cable and probably a bare ground rather then the typical white, black, and ground so the fact that its being used probably means something. something like, its a 240v line, is supplying two 20amp circuits. As for the floros, I'd guess that its a voltage issue. The heater was probably pulling something like 240v, and the Floro ballast is designed for something else. The reason fans and pumps continue to work is because they don't have to be exact power to run and will basically try to move no matter what you give them, but they will burn out extremely fast at the same time.


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## LogicalEvolution (Nov 4, 2009)

Thought I would test the waters here before I begin work, looking at wiring a handfull of CFL lights together using one of the articles on this board, but australian power cables are slightly different than those mentioned.

Looked at light sockets today and they all have four connections, if I get an extension cord and a socket could you guys help me to wire it up? I could probably figure it out but would prefer guidance if possible 

Thank you.

Edit - some thing of interest also, found out that "Y" light socket connectors that just plug in are illegal here


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## lowerarchy (Nov 4, 2009)

AquafinaOrbit said:


> Little confused on exactly what you mean here, but I'll answer what I got.
> Firstly no you cannot run a 15Amp receptacle on a 20amp circuit, what you can do is run a 15amp appliance on a 20amp circuit. A 15amp recepticle is designed around the heat 15amps of power brings, so when connected to a 20amp circuit it start to malfunction and can even melt creating if not shorts or opens then fire.


I thought that if it what you were drawing was only 15 amps then it was ok. Keep in mind that I installed a GFCI to ensure that it would never draw more than that. I also never exceed 80% of the circuit's capacity and the total load was more like 10 amps.



AquafinaOrbit said:


> Also 12/3 is a romex cable with a red, white, black cable and probably a bare ground rather then the typical white, black, and ground so the fact that its being used probably means something. something like, its a 240v line, is supplying two 20amp circuits. As for the floros, I'd guess that its a voltage issue. The heater was probably pulling something like 240v, and the Floro ballast is designed for something else. The reason fans and pumps continue to work is because they don't have to be exact power to run and will basically try to move no matter what you give them, but they will burn out extremely fast at the same time.


You are probably right about the voltage. There were only three wires running into the heater I rewired (red, black and ground). My original post was incorrect - I used 12/2, red, black and ground). This does make a hell of a lot of sense. 

I'm an idiot. I'll get a voltage tester and see for sure later. Thanks for the response.


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## cobra (Nov 4, 2009)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


What up Bricktown? I need your help with the electrical to a room I want to build. I attached a pic. The room has two normal electrical outlets (don't know what the fuse ampage is) and I already talked to an electrician and got a quote for him to put in a 220 outlet. I am moving into this house and have not done so yet. What do I need to do to run a setup like this.


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 4, 2009)

lowerarchy said:


> I thought that if it what you were drawing was only 15 amps then it was ok. Keep in mind that I installed a GFCI to ensure that it would never draw more than that. I also never exceed 80% of the circuit's capacity and the total load was more like 10 amps.


GFCI are not for overload protection: 
A GFCI is a ``ground-fault circuit interrupter''. It measures
the current current flowing through the hot wire and the
neutral wire. If they differ by more than a few milliamps, the
presumption is that current is leaking to ground via some other
path. This may be because of a short circuit to the chassis of
an appliance, or to the ground lead, or through a person. Any
of these situations is hazardous, so the GFCI trips, breaking
the circuit.

GFCIs do not protect against all kinds of electric shocks. If,
for example, you simultaneously touched the hot and neutral
leads of a circuit, and no part of you was grounded, a GFCI
wouldn't help. All of the current that passed from the hot
lead into you would return via the neutral lead, keeping the
GFCI happy.


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## Ichi (Nov 5, 2009)

I think all of this stuff should be cool but I wanted to bounce it off of you guys to make sure. I have Two pole 40amp breaker that my dryer runs off of. I added a 12/2 wire and ran it to a single 240 plug. The 600w that I am hooking up only pulls 2amps and it will be the only thing that I have running on it so I figured we would be all good. Thanks.


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## SeaOfGreenGuru (Nov 5, 2009)

I'm remodeling and expanding my grow after many years and have the opportunity to put in completely new service to the building with 100% dedicated wiring for my whole operation.

The general question is how many circuits and of what size should I dedicate for the room? How many 400W, 600W, 1000W lights and ballasts can be safely loaded on to a 15A breaker?.. a 20A breaker? (Assuming 110VAC supply voltage) A link to a table of number of lights of a given size vs. Breaker amperage would be a cool thing.

Particulars of my space:
New room size is 10'6" x 10'6" x 7'6"h plus a 3' deep by 10'6" wide closet for vegetative/cloning/mothers.

In the closet, I'll only have mothers, clones in rooting mode and clones in vegetative mode for a few weeks at most. I run two 250W Halide systems over the mothers and vegetative plants and 320W worth of flourescents over the rooting clones. With the 70cfm vent fan, that's a total wattage of approximately 900W, so that is easily handled on a 15A circuit.

In the bloom room, I'd like to be running six or eight 600W lights, but be wired to handle four 1000W lights plus four 400W fill lights, so need to handle a worst-case load of 5600W plus whatever the ballast losses are. (I suppose that's the big question - how much extra wattage does a ballast consume, for design purposes?) The way I see it I can drop in three 20A circuits, each able to handle two 600W lights plus something else such as the exhaust fan, or the nutrient pump or the oscillating fans.

Does this make sense?

SeaOfGreenGuru


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## bender420 (Nov 5, 2009)

Hey guys, cannot tell you how happy I am to have found this thread. I haven't worked with electricity before, but I really didn't wanna ask anyone to add an electric outlet in my attic. 

Anyhow I found an outlet on the ceiling of the garage, under the attic floor. So in the attic i took off the silver lined plywood to check it out, I am adding a picture of the back of the outlet. 

Now if I want to add an outlet in the attic which wire do I tap into, the white one or the one which is covered with gray material going into the outlet. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## bender420 (Nov 5, 2009)

SeaOfGreenGuru said:


> I'm remodeling and expanding my grow after many years and have the opportunity to put in completely new service to the building with 100% dedicated wiring for my whole operation.
> 
> The general question is how many circuits and of what size should I dedicate for the room? How many 400W, 600W, 1000W lights and ballasts can be safely loaded on to a 15A breaker?.. a 20A breaker? (Assuming 110VAC supply voltage) A link to a table of number of lights of a given size vs. Breaker amperage would be a cool thing.
> 
> ...



I cannot give you much input but i can tell you that I have been running two 600s and 250 watts of cfl, 6" exhaust fan, and a PC w/ 500 watt PS. All this on a 15 Amp breaker. It has been working safely for few months. No trips or anything.


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## dl604 (Nov 6, 2009)

hey guys,

im going have a circuit board with a timer which has a bunch of 220v and 120v outlets on it. this will need to be plugged into the stove plug. now the problem is my rooms is about 30ft from the stove what is the best way to power my lights from this distance? where should my ballast go? in the room? any advice on this and suggestions are appreciated.

thanks guys!


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 6, 2009)

Hi, got a newbie question for you.

I just got my lights today. I asked the lights to be wired for 220v. I've never seen a plug like this before and none of my wall jacks will fit it. Also there was a tag on the cord that says 240v.

Info that came with the light says "Plug the ballast into any household grounded outlet or appliance-duty 15 amp (or higher amperage) timer.

Can I just go to Home Depot and have them make me an extension cord with 3 of these plugs on one end so I can run three 400w ballasts, or is this european wiring or something?

I bought a cheap timer from Home Depot. I don't think the timer has a voltage rating and it's not a digital so I'm not sure if it uses any electricity for itself. Is this not a good timer to use with the lights?

I appreciate any help you can give, I really don't want to have to send the lights back if I can avoid it.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 6, 2009)

Got some more info & now have a new question. 

I was told that they should work with our (U.S.) electricity but I need to make an extension cord with a female for it on one end. Home depot has the right female end, but they can only put one end on an extension cord. Since I bought 3 lights I'd have to make 3 extension cords which will run me a little over $100.

Is there any cheaper way of doing this outside of sending the lights back?


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 6, 2009)

Found an alternate solution. Just bought 3 outlets with boxes & face plates, 10 ft of 10 guage wire, and a regular plug for the end. Only $50, saved $100. I plan on making 3 outlets attatched to an extension cord.

Here's the thing, when I ordered the lights the lady asked if I needed 110v and I said no, I need 220v. I thought I had a good understanding of how our electrical wiring works, I guess I still have a lot to learn.

The ballast sais "input: 120/208/240/277v 60Hz

The documentation said: "Plug the ballast into any household grounded outlet or appliance-duty 15 amp (or higher amperage) timer. Note: Ballast automatically turns on once it is plugged into a power source. If using other voltage is desired, please contact a qualified electrician to make the correct rewiring to the ballast cores multi-volt power leads. This ballast will accept 120/208/240/277v power sources, it comes prewired for 120v household voltage."

Now the last part sais it comes prewired for 120v but when I told her that I needed 220v she said they'd have to rewire it. She may have just meant the power cord or she may have meant the ballast. I'm not sure I can trust the documentation (htgsupply.com), is there any other way I can test my lights to see if it's wired for 110v or 220v? Also, the guy at Home Depot said that I'll have 2 hot wires in the 10 guage cord to wire, no ground and ignore the 3rd wire in the cord. So if each hot wire is 110v, then isn't that 220v? (sorry if that's a dumb question)

Once I know that I have the voltage right I'll post pics of everything I bought so you can tell me if I'm gonna set my place on fire, but I'm pretty sure I have a safe set up planned.

Thanks again.


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## travish413 (Nov 6, 2009)

Ichi said:


> I think all of this stuff should be cool but I wanted to bounce it off of you guys to make sure. I have Two pole 40amp breaker that my dryer runs off of. I added a 12/2 wire and ran it to a single 240 plug. The 600w that I am hooking up only pulls 2amps and it will be the only thing that I have running on it so I figured we would be all good. Thanks.


 Man... I know its a pain in the ass but you really need to run a separate circuit for that light. The reason it just pulls 2.5 amps is bc its on a 240 plug. You have to get the right gauge of wire for the amount of voltage that will pass through the wire or it will get too hot and catch on fire. A 240 outlet would at the least need a 30 amp breaker and you would need 10/2 wire for that. Like i said i know its a pain but you really need to wire it right or you are gonia put yourself in danger. If you can change the cord to a 120v it would pull 5 amps and you could plug it in a regular outlet, which would be easier than running new circuits. Not to sound like a stick in the mud but you really shouldnt f with elelctricity...


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## bender420 (Nov 6, 2009)

bender420 said:


> Hey guys, cannot tell you how happy I am to have found this thread. I haven't worked with electricity before, but I really didn't wanna ask anyone to add an electric outlet in my attic.
> 
> Anyhow I found an outlet on the ceiling of the garage, under the attic floor. So in the attic i took off the silver lined plywood to check it out, I am adding a picture of the back of the outlet.
> 
> ...


anyone? I would really appreciate it.


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## travish413 (Nov 6, 2009)

DannyGreenEyes said:


> Hi, got a newbie question for you.
> 
> I just got my lights today. I asked the lights to be wired for 220v. I've never seen a plug like this before and none of my wall jacks will fit it. Also there was a tag on the cord that says 240v.
> 
> ...


 You asked them for a 220v and thats what you got it appears. Is that not a 220 male plug. You'll need a 220 outlet to plug that in. You know like the one your dryer is plugged in to. Try plugging it in that outlet and see if it works.


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## BlueBalls (Nov 6, 2009)

DannyGreenEyes said:


> Hi, got a newbie question for you.
> 
> I just got my lights today. I asked the lights to be wired for 220v. I've never seen a plug like this before and none of my wall jacks will fit it. Also there was a tag on the cord that says 240v.
> 
> ...



Dude, that is a NEMA 6-15P a 15A 250V plug, very much American.
The blade configuration is like that so you can't plug it into a 125V receptacle.
You cannot make an extension cord with an adapter for a 15A 125V receptacle.
You must either install a 15A or 20A 250V receptacle or rewire the ballasts for 125V.


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## Ichi (Nov 6, 2009)

travish413 said:


> Man... I know its a pain in the ass but you really need to run a separate circuit for that light. The reason it just pulls 2.5 amps is bc its on a 240 plug. You have to get the right gauge of wire for the amount of voltage that will pass through the wire or it will get too hot and catch on fire. A 240 outlet would at the least need a 30 amp breaker and you would need 10/2 wire for that. Like i said i know its a pain but you really need to wire it right or you are gonia put yourself in danger. If you can change the cord to a 120v it would pull 5 amps and you could plug it in a regular outlet, which would be easier than running new circuits. Not to sound like a stick in the mud but you really shouldnt f with elelctricity...



Could you please explain how you came up with this. 12/2 Romex is rated at 20amps with a max load of .8 of the total amps. I am talking about pulling 2 amps (and only 2amps) at 240 through the same wire. I usually see the amps double from 240 down to 120. Shouldn't it be near the equivalent of running 5 or 8 or even 10amps through a 120. I am not interested in an opinion just looking to understand what the danger is because this is not adding up. A technical answer please. Just spouting out the wire standard for a breaker size is not technical enough. I understand if I where ever going to utilize more electricity but this is a single line with a single purpose run a whole 15 feet.


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## curioushiker (Nov 6, 2009)

I have a question that I hope someone can help with. I have the 240v lumitek 1000w digi's. The intructions say to wire them with Two hots and a ground. I am going to wire these to a sub panel that I am installing in my room. Problem is that my main panel on the house has all the grounds and nuetrals mounted to the same bus bar.
So, when wiring my sub panel I know that I have to mount the grounds to the ground bar ( I added a second bus bar for grounds) and the neutrals to the neutral bars. So the grounds and the neutrals will be isolated from each other at the sub panel but when they get wired into the main panel they all go to the same ground bar. Is this safe or do I need to do something different? 
Thanks in advance for any help!


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 6, 2009)

The plug isn't like my dryer plug but it doesn't matter. I don't have any of the 240v plugs free anyway. But I think I may have solved my problem. I just need someone who knows electronics to let me know if I'm right.

The ballast has multi-volt power leads. I think that means it can be rewired, so I opened it. Here's what I found.

Pic 1 is the diagram on the side of the ballast.

Pic 2 is just a birds eye view of the electric wiring clusterfuck.

Pic 3 is the wire labeled 120v and as you can see it's not attatched to anything.

Pic 4 is the 240v wire which is jumpered in with one of those wire connector twisty things.

There are other unattacted wires with labels for the other voltages. (208v & 277v). The only other labeled wire that's attatched to anything is labeled Com, but if I'm reading the diagram right, then that's always attatched no matter what voltage is being used. I don't see any other labled cords or any other unattached cords.

So I'm thinking that if I unattatch the 220v wire and reattatch the 110v wire to the same wire the 220v was attatched to, then that's all that needs to be done to rewire it. Am I right?

Also, if this rewires it, then all I have to do is cut the end of the power cord and put on a "normal" male plug?


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 6, 2009)

Sorry, forgot the pics. Newbie mistake. Here they are


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## travish413 (Nov 6, 2009)

Ichi said:


> Could you please explain how you came up with this. 12/2 Romex is rated at 20amps with a max load of .8 of the total amps. I am talking about pulling 2 amps (and only 2amps) at 240 through the same wire. I usually see the amps double from 240 down to 120. Shouldn't it be near the equivalent of running 5 or 8 or even 10amps through a 120. I am not interested in an opinion just looking to understand what the danger is because this is not adding up. I understand if I where ever going to utilize more electricity but this is a single line with a single purpose run a whole 15 feet.


Ok... That 15 feet of 12/2 wire is rated for a 20 amp breaker. Thats what kind of wire you run off that size of breaker. The reason it is 2 amps is the voltage going thu the wire. 600 watts /240 volts = 2.5 amps... This means you need 10 gauge wire to be safe. I am just lookin out man... Sorry for the opinion but its not safe. You are totally missing the point about the wire and what its rated for.


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## travish413 (Nov 6, 2009)

curioushiker said:


> I have a question that I hope someone can help with. I have the 240v lumitek 1000w digi's. The intructions say to wire them with Two hots and a ground. I am going to wire these to a sub panel that I am installing in my room. Problem is that my main panel on the house has all the grounds and nuetrals mounted to the same bus bar.
> So, when wiring my sub panel I know that I have to mount the grounds to the ground bar ( I added a second bus bar for grounds) and the neutrals to the neutral bars. So the grounds and the neutrals will be isolated from each other at the sub panel but when they get wired into the main panel they all go to the same ground bar. Is this safe or do I need to do something different?
> Thanks in advance for any help!


 Yes, sounds good to me. As long as they are apart at your sub panel bc you dont want equal amounts of current going through your neurtals. But this isnt my thread and i need to quit intruding... Sorry...


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## travish413 (Nov 6, 2009)

Ichi said:


> Thanks. The math set me strait.


 No problem man. Glad you didnt try it.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 6, 2009)

Can someone give me insight on the rewiring of my balast? Do I have everything right or is there more to it?


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## colebz (Nov 6, 2009)

How can I set up a 1000 watt ballast to run two 1000 watt lights on a consecutive 12/12 light cycle


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 6, 2009)

Ok, I rewired my ballast, fuck it. I can't get anyone to confirm what I'm doing it right so if I screw up the light I'll just not have a veg station.

I'm rewiring the plug now.

In the new male end I have 3 screws. The ground is green and the other two are gold & silver

In the cord there are 3 wires, green, white, & black.

I was told that green goes to green, white goes to silver, and black goes to gold.

Can someone please tell me if this is right?


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## colebz (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm pretty sure all you have to get right is the ground. Wich is green


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## colebz (Nov 6, 2009)

White or black shouldn't matter as long as it is grounded


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 6, 2009)

colebz said:


> I'm pretty sure all you have to get right is the ground. Wich is green


Normally I'd agree, but it's a ballast which I don't know much about, and it looks like it has a big magnet. Reversing the positive and negative could change the polarity of the magnet


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## colebz (Nov 6, 2009)

Not 100% but I think that's only the case with dc power


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 6, 2009)

colebz said:


> Not 100% but I think that's only the case with dc power


 
Nah dude, I'm pretty sure I remember this from science class. We wrapped a cord around a screw and attatched it to one of those big square batteries with the 2 spings on the top. The electic current caused the screw to magnatize

When we took the wires and switched - and +, the magnetic polarity reversed itself (positive poll was now negative and visa versa)

So I think when there's a magnet involved you have to run the current the correct way.


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## curioushiker (Nov 6, 2009)

travish413 said:


> Yes, sounds good to me. As long as they are apart at your sub panel bc you dont want equal amounts of current going through your neurtals. But this isnt my thread and i need to quit intruding... Sorry...


 
Thanks for the help Travish. Much-a-presheated


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## colebz (Nov 6, 2009)

The battery was dc not ac. I remember the same thing while learning the difference between ac and dc


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 6, 2009)

colebz said:


> The battery was dc not ac. I remember the same thing while learning the difference between ac and dc


That makes sense man, sorry for the mistake. I'd still feel better if I knew I was wiring the plug to specs though. I have bad luck and anything left to chance usually comes back to bite me.


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## colebz (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm not an electrician though and just stumbled across your question in the process of trying to find an answer to mine. Sorry if I'm stepping on toes. 
Just wondering if anyone has hooked up 2 1000 watt lights to 1 1000 watt ballast, on a consecutive 12/12 light cycle.


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## colebz (Nov 6, 2009)

Always willing to give some extra input. No problem


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## fishingwithmoney (Nov 6, 2009)

Whats up brick!

Thanks for the open mic/ Q&A

I have 100 amp service panel @ the pole i am in so-cal and live a property where at one time there were 2 mobile homes, there is a service box where there the old mobile was and there is service to the remaining mobile. My question is
can i/ how do i? tie into this junction box use some direct burial cable and travel 40 feet to a out building then setup up a 200sq.ft. grow? 

thank you if i need to clarify anything plmk

-fishing


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## colebz (Nov 6, 2009)

I live in Seattle and was wondering if anyone knows where to get a flip flop relay for hid's


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## colebz (Nov 7, 2009)

Is it normal for an electrical outlet and wire to get warm. I have two thousands running off it


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## wyteboi (Nov 7, 2009)

colebz said:


> Is it normal for an electrical outlet and wire to get warm. I have two thousands running off it



the outlet should not be getting too warm at all. 2 k's on one 15amp outlet is too much. And its the max for a 20amp. 

(where the hell can i get a 600 that only pulls 2amps?) ??


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## Roland (Nov 7, 2009)

colebz said:


> Is it normal for an electrical outlet and wire to get warm. I have two thousands running off it


warm .. yeah ... HOT ... no ...

120 Volt ? 

2000W/ 120 V =16.6 amps 
15 amp circuit ? U R overloaded


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## wyteboi (Nov 7, 2009)

DannyGreenEyes said:


> I was told that green goes to green, white goes to silver, and black goes to gold.
> 
> Can someone please tell me if this is right?


yes this is correct.


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## wyteboi (Nov 7, 2009)

Roland said:


> 2000W/ 120 V =16.6 amps


this is one of the first times i have seen someone get it right on here 

(and most home outlets ARE 15 amp)


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## True Stoner (Nov 7, 2009)

ok so i replaced the recepticale from a 15amp to a 20 amp as i was blowing fuses so now i dont have that issue but i only have access to a 2 plug recepticale. I have a power bar surge protector plugged into one and i have a 3 way plug in the other which is powering an air pump and a water heater and on the power bar ill have my 600watt light and 2 inline fans and an oscilatting fan going and the heatmat!!!! Is this to much for this??


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## Roland (Nov 7, 2009)

True Stoner said:


> ok so i replaced the recepticale from a 15amp to a 20 amp as i was blowing fuses so now i dont have that issue but i only have access to a 2 plug recepticale. I have a power bar surge protector plugged into one and i have a 3 way plug in the other which is powering an air pump and a water heater and on the power bar ill have my 600watt light and 2 inline fans and an oscilatting fan going and the heatmat!!!! Is this to much for this??


U need to add up your total wattage and divide by 110 to determine amps used ..

changing a 15 amp receptacle to a 20 A receptacle doesn't keep you from tripping breakers ..


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## wyteboi (Nov 7, 2009)

travish413 said:


> Man... I know its a pain in the ass but you really need to run a separate circuit for that light. The reason it just pulls 2.5 amps is bc its on a 240 plug. You have to get the right gauge of wire for the amount of voltage that will pass through the wire or it will get too hot and catch on fire. A 240 outlet would at the least need a 30 amp breaker and you would need 10/2 wire for that. Like i said i know its a pain but you really need to wire it right or you are gonia put yourself in danger. If you can change the cord to a 120v it would pull 5 amps and you could plug it in a regular outlet, which would be easier than running new circuits. Not to sound like a stick in the mud but you really shouldnt f with elelctricity...



this is completely untrue....... maybe YOU should not be fuckin with electricity? a 240 volt outlet does not need ANY certain size wire/breaker.! with it being only [email protected] then you can SAFELY use a 14/2 wire for this "240" outlet. a 10 wire is totally unnecessary for a single 600. now u git this guy thinkin he is "unsafe" thats not cool!
a 110 and a 220 are the same thing except ONE extra hot ..... thats all.
Brick you might wanna take ur thread back. these folks are being mislead.......


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## wyteboi (Nov 7, 2009)

True Stoner said:


> ok so i replaced the recepticale from a 15amp to a 20 amp as i was blowing fuses so now i dont have that issue but i only have access to a 2 plug recepticale. I have a power bar surge protector plugged into one and i have a 3 way plug in the other which is powering an air pump and a water heater and on the power bar ill have my 600watt light and 2 inline fans and an oscilatting fan going and the heatmat!!!! Is this to much for this??


well the wire running to that 20 has to be rated for 20 and with u just changing from 15 to 20 , then my guess is the wire(going to the recepticle) and the breaker are not rated for 20 amps. so u need to be treating that circuit like it is a 15 UNLESS u know there is 12 wire going to it AND there is a 20 amp breaker in the panel.


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## Roland (Nov 7, 2009)

I don't know .. but Brick may be gone .. but U R right Wyteboi .. has he posted here in a while ? This could get outa' control real quick !


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## wyteboi (Nov 7, 2009)

well i am subscribed and it looks like u are too ........ so we got this 


i have been a home/dope electrician for 10 years now


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## wyteboi (Nov 7, 2009)

fishingwithmoney said:


> Whats up brick!
> 
> Thanks for the open mic/ Q&A
> 
> ...


if u are not scared of electricity then tie right into it , using a underground wire. (how many watts incuding fans are you wanting to use?)
UF wire is the wire u will need. (it can be buried) 
you can just tap right into it and add a plug or the safest way would be to add a junction box (a disconnect) and run your uf wire from there . that way there is a breaker on the circuit/circuits you are needing.


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## curioushiker (Nov 7, 2009)

Wyteboi and Roland just wanted to say thanks for the help you guys are giving here. I know electrical can be a real pain in the ass. Especially when what we need is not there.
On the bright side. Electricity is pretty black and white, no gray areas there. If those that are wiring their rooms do not have the correct size wiring in place already then take the time to run the wire needed. If money is an issue as it is for most of us then I would recommend running One less light and ballast (if using Two or more) and use that saved money to upgrade the wiring. In most cases it is easily done.
Anyway, please dont skimp on the wiring. The results can be dangerous.


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## True Stoner (Nov 7, 2009)

Roland said:


> U need to add up your total wattage and divide by 110 to determine amps used ..
> 
> changing a 15 amp receptacle to a 20 A receptacle doesn't keep you from tripping breakers ..


Thanks for the info buddy i just added up everything besides the heat mat and i came out with 1313 watts divided by 110 gave me 11.93 watts so im well under. Thanks again!!


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## treemansbuds (Nov 7, 2009)

Hello Mr Electricty-
Setting up a grow room 12x16, i'm running 10 gauge wire underground in conduit to my shed about 80' (grow room). Into a breaker box with 240v- 20amp breaker to support the 2-1000watt HPS flowering lights and the 400 watt MH light in the veg room (11.9 amps). And another 120v-20amp breaker to support the rest of the equipment (fans, A/C, pumps, 2' floursents)
Question will this work?
What Ballast do you recommend? 
Digital or magmnetic?
I hear about "liner loads" and "non linar loads" I have no idea what they are talking about and was hoping for some input.
Thanks,
Treemansbuds-


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## consume (Nov 7, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> An 'OR' is a control that allows either A and/or B turn on C.
> and 'AND' needs both A & B to turn on C
> and a 'XOR' (exclusive OR) can only have A or B turn on C (if A & B are on, C will still be off)
> 
> ...


 
So I am a cheap bastard.... Instead of buying a controller with humidity and temp, I just bought the temp. Now my room is running humid (80-85%) before the fans turn on to cool the room. I'm worried that mold may start to invade. 

Is there a way that i can hook up the same exhaust fan to both the temp contoller and then add in a humidity controller also to the same fan by using a "OR" circuit? How would I wire this? Would i have to worry about feedback from either controller towards the other? 

Diodes?


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## Roland (Nov 7, 2009)

treemansbuds said:


> Hello Mr Electricty-
> Setting up a grow room 12x16, i'm running 10 gauge wire underground in conduit to my shed about 80' (grow room). Into a breaker box with 240v- 20amp breaker to support the 2-1000watt HPS flowering lights and the 400 watt MH light in the veg room (11.9 amps). And another 120v-20amp breaker to support the rest of the equipment (fans, A/C, pumps, 2' floursents)
> Question will this work?
> What Ballast do you recommend?
> ...


2 x 1000 + 400 /240 = 10 amps 

u need to total wattages for your 110V circuit and divide by 110 .. but 20 A circuit is _PROB'LY _OK

Digital (electronic) ballasts are more expensive .. give off less heat .. are quieter .and use slightly less current ... your call

not sure what u mean by "liner" and "non-linar" loads ..unless they are talking about distance ... over 200 feet requires wire guage increase..

line .. and load ... are labeled lugs in a transformer or a disconnect .. .. line = source .. load = device


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## treemansbuds (Nov 7, 2009)

Roland said:


> 2 x 1000 + 400 /240 = 10 amps
> 
> u need to total wattages for your 110V circuit and divide by 110 .. but 20 A circuit is _PROB'LY _OK
> 
> ...


Roland-
Thanks for the 411.
Do you recommend GFI outlets for the 120v?
I'm wired and live to the breaker box, and I have 1 120v outlet installed  so I can see what I'm doing. I start wiring up the room tomorrow and installing fan/ducting after that. 
Glad 2 know your here if I needed.......thanks again!
Treemansbuds-


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## Roland (Nov 7, 2009)

treemansbuds said:


> Roland-
> Thanks for the 411.
> Do you recommend GFI outlets for the 120v?
> I'm wired and live to the breaker box, and I have 1 120v outlet installed  so I can see what I'm doing. I start wiring up the room tomorrow and installing fan/ducting after that.
> ...


By code ... any electrical device within 6 ft of WATER .. must be GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interruptor) protected ...

It's there to protect people ..in case a Hair dryer falls into the bathtub (just an example ) or to keep you from being electrocuted if you are standing in water


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## curioushiker (Nov 7, 2009)

Roland said:


> warm .. yeah ... HOT ... no ...
> 
> 120 Volt ?
> 
> ...


Roland, does the formula work the same for 240v? In other words:
2000W/ 240v=8.3?
I am using the C.A.P. light controller that has Eight sockets. It is rated for either 120v or 240v. 
It is rated at only 40amps. The reason I say only 40amps is because if all the spaces were used to run Eight 1000w lights then the amps being used would be no less than 33amps running 240v would be no less than 66amps running 120v.
Am I too close to the 40 amp rating to be on the safe side?


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## Roland (Nov 7, 2009)

curioushiker said:


> Roland, does the formula work the same for 240v? In other words:
> 2000W/ 240v=8.3?
> I am using the C.A.P. light controller that has Eight sockets. It is rated for either 120v or 240v.
> It is rated at only 40amps. The reason I say only 40amps is because if all the spaces were used to run Eight 1000w lights then the amps being used would be no less than 33amps running 240v would be no less than 66amps running 120v.
> Am I too close to the 40 amp rating to be on the safe side?


Yup .. works the same ... I would use 230 for calculations ... reason is 120 .. isn't ALWAYS 120 ..it varies ..... distance to source, time of day etc.... I've seen 117 in the morning and 113 in the afternoon 

220/240 works on phase A and Phase B cycles ..110 +110 = 200 

117 -117 = 234 .. get my point ? 

lights fans etc. draw a slight surge in current at "start-up" 

generally .. it's a good idea to supply 125% of load ... it is most important with motors

you will still be protected from overload at 99.9% of available current as long as your circuit breaker is rated for 100% max cont. load


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## Roland (Nov 7, 2009)

consume said:


> So I am a cheap bastard.... Instead of buying a controller with humidity and temp, I just bought the temp. Now my room is running humid (80-85%) before the fans turn on to cool the room. I'm worried that mold may start to invade.
> 
> Is there a way that i can hook up the same exhaust fan to both the temp contoller and then add in a humidity controller also to the same fan by using a "OR" circuit? How would I wire this? Would i have to worry about feedback from either controller towards the other?
> 
> Diodes?


 
hmmmmmm ... kind of a tough ..lengthy one ..... 

if your humidity controller .. uses the same circuit as your temp controller ... you COULD feed the supply wire to your fan ..from both controllers then your fan would come on "either" from temp or humidity Ctrlr


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## nickbbad (Nov 7, 2009)

colebz said:


> I'm not an electrician though and just stumbled across your question in the process of trying to find an answer to mine. Sorry if I'm stepping on toes.
> Just wondering if anyone has hooked up 2 1000 watt lights to 1 1000 watt ballast, on a consecutive 12/12 light cycle.



I've never made one but have been interested in making a flip/flop relay anyway if you search around you can find plans for them here is a good DIY flip/flop relay tutorial but you have to sign up to the site to see the pics. http://forums.mycotopia.net/cannabis/22515-diy-flipflop-relay-run-2-lamps-off-1-ballast-grow-more-efficiently.html


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## consume (Nov 7, 2009)

Roland said:


> hmmmmmm ... kind of a tough ..lengthy one .....
> 
> if your humidity controller .. uses the same circuit as your temp controller ... you COULD feed the supply wire to your fan ..from both controllers then your fan would come on "either" from temp or humidity Ctrlr


Do you see a downside?


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## Roland (Nov 7, 2009)

nickbbad said:


> I've never made one but have been interested in making a flip/flop relay anyway if you search around you can find plans for them here is a good DIY flip/flop relay tutorial but you have to sign up to the site to see the pics. http://forums.mycotopia.net/cannabis/22515-diy-flipflop-relay-run-2-lamps-off-1-ballast-grow-more-efficiently.html


 
I think that is made to switch one off when the other comes on most ballasts are made for a single lamp .. You might be able to find a 2 lamp ballast .. but I don't know of one for Gro-lights


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## travish413 (Nov 7, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> this is completely untrue....... maybe YOU should not be fuckin with electricity? a 240 volt outlet does not need ANY certain size wire/breaker.! with it being only [email protected] then you can SAFELY use a 14/2 wire for this "240" outlet. a 10 wire is totally unnecessary for a single 600. now u git this guy thinkin he is "unsafe" thats not cool!
> a 110 and a 220 are the same thing except ONE extra hot ..... thats all.
> Brick you might wanna take ur thread back. these folks are being mislead.......


Ok, you can run 12/2 with a 240/120v 20amp outlet. This guy was coming off a 40 amp breaker that his dryer was already hooked up on and wanted to use 12/2 and you are saying this is safe? I thought there was certain gauges you had to use for seperate size breakers. Like the 40 amp that he is using, shouldnt he be using 8 gauge? Please enlightn me...


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 7, 2009)

DannyGreenEyes said:


> Normally I'd agree, but it's a ballast which I don't know much about, and it looks like it has a big magnet. Reversing the positive and negative could change the polarity of the magnet


AC really doesn't have a polarity. The HOT lead is swinging from positive to negative in respect to a neutral/0Volt.

Now it could cause issues wit the igniter or cap.


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 7, 2009)

colebz said:


> I live in Seattle and was wondering if anyone knows where to get a flip flop relay for hid's


Grainger.com


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## Roland (Nov 7, 2009)

travish413 said:


> Ok, you can run 12/2 with a 240/120v 20amp outlet. This guy was coming off a 40 amp breaker that his dryer was already hooked up on and wanted to use 12/2 and you are saying this is safe? I thought there was certain gauges you had to use for seperate size breakers. Like the 40 amp that he is using, shouldnt he be using 8 gauge? Please enlightn me...


If it is coming from a 40 A circuit ... then it needs to go into a disconnect rated at 40 A .. then you can use 15 or 20 A breaker to feed the lights


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 7, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> this is one of the first times i have seen someone get it right on here
> 
> (and most home outlets ARE 15 amp)


You aren't looking hard.
And yep 15amp is standard in N.A. But more then one outlet is typically asigned to a breaker. So if you have 4 outlets in a room, that doesn't mean you can pull 60 amps in that room.


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## travish413 (Nov 7, 2009)

Roland said:


> If it is coming from a 40 A circuit ... then it needs to go into a disconnect rated at 40 A .. then you can use 15 or 20 A breaker to feed the lights


 Yeah, he didnt say anything about a disconnect. He just wanted to know if he could run 12/2 off of the 2 pole 40 amp breaker that his dryer was on. I told him no that it wasnt safe. wyteboi told me that i was wrong so i just wanted to get things staight.


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 7, 2009)

consume said:


> So I am a cheap bastard.... Instead of buying a controller with humidity and temp, I just bought the temp. Now my room is running humid (80-85%) before the fans turn on to cool the room. I'm worried that mold may start to invade.
> 
> Is there a way that i can hook up the same exhaust fan to both the temp contoller and then add in a humidity controller also to the same fan by using a "OR" circuit? How would I wire this? Would i have to worry about feedback from either controller towards the other?
> 
> Diodes?


Diodes won't help much with AC, unless you want to 1/2wave rectify it.
Whats the temp and humidity controllers?
Get a relay. Feed its coil from the temp controler and also from the humidity controler. Let the conatacts control the fan. Whats the temp and humidity controllers?


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 7, 2009)

nickbbad said:


> I've never made one but have been interested in making a flip/flop relay anyway if you search around you can find plans for them here is a good DIY flip/flop relay tutorial but you have to sign up to the site to see the pics. http://forums.mycotopia.net/cannabis/22515-diy-flipflop-relay-run-2-lamps-off-1-ballast-grow-more-efficiently.html



Don't need to make a flipflop relay. Just a DPDT relay. Timer controls the coil. The NC contacts run the 'off' time and the NO contacts run the 'on' time.


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## consume (Nov 7, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Diodes won't help much with AC, unless you want to 1/2wave rectify it.
> Whats the temp and humidity controllers?
> Get a relay. Feed its coil from the temp controler and also from the humidity controler. Let the conatacts control the fan. Whats the temp and humidity controllers?


Temp is a CAP Cool-1. 

Was looking at something like: http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-H8908ASPST-Manual-Humidistat-Control-11506000-p.


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## consume (Nov 7, 2009)

Output from the temp is 110v. 

Looking at the specs for the humistat, it shows for low voltage. I take it that I would need a relay? 

Maybe my best bet would be to try and sell what I have, then buy a better all around controller.


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## Roland (Nov 7, 2009)

travish413 said:


> Yeah, he didnt say anything about a disconnect. He just wanted to know if he could run 12/2 off of the 2 pole 40 amp breaker that his dryer was on. I told him no that it wasnt safe. wyteboi told me that i was wrong so i just wanted to get things staight.


 
Yeah he prob'ly didn't see that part .. I haven't read the whole thread either .. just jumped in to answer a couple quick questions ...

U _CAN _ use #10 wire to feed 40 Amp disconnect .. if there are no more than three conductors in the raceway ( or cable ).. # 8 would be better .. #8 is good up to 55 A


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## wyteboi (Nov 8, 2009)

travish413 said:


> Yeah, he didnt say anything about a disconnect. He just wanted to know if he could run 12/2 off of the 2 pole 40 amp breaker that his dryer was on. I told him no that it wasnt safe. wyteboi told me that i was wrong so i just wanted to get things staight.



i was totally under the impression that the dryer was not being used anymore. 
What i _should _of said is you can use 14 guage wire for 2 amps. and if u KNOW there is nothing on that circuit but your 2 amp light then there is no need for a disconnect. i am an electrician but that dont mean i do EVERYTHING per code. I use code AND common sense to determine what u guys need... thats all. 
So by putting a 14 wire 110 circuit on a dryer outlet with a 40 amp breaker, is completely safe UNTIL you overload THAT 14 wire then since the breaker is so big the 14 wire would get hot and possibly start a fire. but if the one light is all u have then who cares about code...... its still safe.
sorry if i confused anyone .......


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## wyteboi (Nov 8, 2009)

travish413 said:


> Ok... That 15 feet of 12/2 wire is rated for a 20 amp breaker.


its the oppisite , the 20 amp breaker is rated for 12 gauge wire. The breaker does nothing except "break" the connection IF u exceed the limit of the breaker, now if u never exceed the wire limit then the size of the breaker dont help or hurt. 
now if u want to add things to that breaker in the future then yes u will need a disconnect.

 no big deal


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## diablo69 (Nov 8, 2009)

I would like to wire a panel similar to the first one of two that you posted 4 /7 /09
I have a hard wired timer with three 4 outlet receptacles to power the fans and air pumps. I was thinking about installing a two breaker sub panel, one for the fans etc. and the other for the ballast (1000W). I want it nice and neat so there are now wires or cables nesting all over the floor. Can you send me a diagram or something that I could use to make this up?
Thanks,

Ben
BTW, there are limited circuits available as this is a very old house. Some of the wiring is knob and tube. There was an outlet wired to the outside of the house (Christmas lights I assume) from the furnace panel. I removed that and thought about using it as my power source since there is nothing left on the panel and everything else is overloaded.
Your thoughts?

Thanks again, and I don't see how to PM you either.


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## wyteboi (Nov 8, 2009)

diablo69 said:


> Some of the wiring is knob and tube. There was an outlet wired to the outside of the house (Christmas lights I assume) from the furnace panel. I removed that and thought about using it as my power source since there is nothing left on the panel and everything else is overloaded.
> Your thoughts?
> 
> Thanks again, and I don't see how to PM you either.


when you say "furnace panel" do u mean the box on the side of the furnace? Gas or electric?
if it is gas then there is probably just one 15 amp circuit coming from the "main panel"
Do u have breakers or fuses?
you are gonna need at least one 20 amp "dedicated" circuit for your equipment (i would go with 2) Dedicated meaning NOTHING else on that circuit. a 1000 watt light at 110v = about 8.5amps . that only leaves you 2 or 3 amps to play with for fans, ect... 
DO NOT use that old nob an tube wiring for grow room (unless u *have* to) that shit is so old and fragile , its just not worth it.
Do u have a 100amp panel ? if so what all do u use (not counting lights an computers, just motors , like the fridge, stove,dryer, water heater, ect....)
If you are not overloaded we can possibly show you how to add a new breaker and wire for ur setup.


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 8, 2009)

Quick look, It seems to be the standard 24VAC controls used in HVAC.
Yup, Would need a relay *and* a 24VAC power supply (Radio shack sells a 25VAC transformer for like $10)
Didn't see any spec sheet stating the ratings of the internal contacts, so driving the dehumidifier straight from it, probably not a good idea.

Is this thing an electronic monitoring or mechanical (ie: horse hair?)
The wiring kinda leads me to believe mechanical.

Why not just use the humidistat on the dehumidifier?



consume said:


> from the temp is 110v.
> 
> Looking at the specs for the humistat, it shows for low voltage. I take it that I would need a relay?
> 
> Maybe my best bet would be to try and sell what I have, then buy a better all around controller.


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## curioushiker (Nov 8, 2009)

Guys, can I break in for a quick question please. I want to ad Two combination switches to control Two submersible pumps for watering. I plan on adding these to the last outlet. Is there such a combination switch that can be daisy chained just like the outlets are wired?
Just so im clear in my description: Half of my outlets are conected to a 20 amp breaker. The outlets are wired One to the next and so on. I just want to add Two combinations at the end of the chain.
Thanks.


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## Roland (Nov 8, 2009)

curioushiker said:


> Guys, can I break in for a quick question please. I want to ad Two combination switches to control Two submersible pumps for watering. I plan on adding these to the last outlet. Is there such a combination switch that can be daisy chained just like the outlets are wired?
> Just so im clear in my description: Half of my outlets are conected to a 20 amp breaker. The outlets are wired One to the next and so on. I just want to add Two combinations at the end of the chain.
> Thanks.


as long as u aren't overloading the circuit .....yes ... 

u can buy switched outlets at any electric supply


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## curioushiker (Nov 8, 2009)

Roland said:


> as long as u aren't overloading the circuit .....yes ...
> 
> u can buy switched outlets at any electric supply


I have the max 12 outlets on a 20 amp cucuit. All the outlets are rated 20 amps. (or so said the package)
The only thing that will run off the outlets will be 5 or so 10" or 12" oscillating fans along with the trigger cable for my light controller and in the future an environmental controller. Oh yeah, and the submersible pump which will only be used intermitantly. 
Sound OK? if not I can always dedicate a breaker for the pumps.


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## Roland (Nov 8, 2009)

curioushiker said:


> I have the max 12 outlets on a 20 amp cucuit. All the outlets are rated 20 amps. (or so said the package)
> The only thing that will run off the outlets will be 5 or so 10" or 12" oscillating fans along with the trigger cable for my light controller and in the future an environmental controller. Oh yeah, and the submersible pump which will only be used intermitantly.
> Sound OK? if not I can always dedicate a breaker for the pumps.


sounds like it should be fine .... to be sure .... look at labels on all devices and find watts add them up and divide by 110 .. that will give you amps 

watts / voltage = amps


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## funkadelic (Nov 8, 2009)

Bricktown, 

I've got an outlet in my new house that was meant for a tanning bed (30 amp/250 volt, with a NEMA L6-30P outlet, Cali style), that I would like to use for another project. Found some computer server power strips that are 30 amp that I can plug into wall receptacle, output from power strip is NEMA 6-15/20R 250 volt (12x20 amp outlets, 7500 watts max, 2x20amp breakers, digital amp meter). 

Plan to run 240 volt Lumatek ballasts off of this power strip, do you see any concerns with this setup? Only planning on running 1200-1800 watts, with room for growth. 

Thanks dude! FUNKadelic


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## Roland (Nov 8, 2009)

funkadelic said:


> Bricktown,
> 
> I've got an outlet in my new house that was meant for a tanning bed (30 amp/250 volt, with a NEMA L6-30P outlet, Cali style), that I would like to use for another project. Found some computer server power strips that are 30 amp that I can plug into wall receptacle, output from power strip is NEMA 6-15/20R 250 volt (12x20 amp outlets, 7500 watts max, 2x20amp breakers, digital amp meter).
> 
> ...


sounds good .. not sure if Brick is around ... I like the ida of a built in 20 A breaker and the current read out .. sounds like u can plug straight into the 30A dryer outlet .. all u need is the proper/matching cord end

got a link for that power strip ?


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## funkadelic (Nov 8, 2009)

Bricktown, 

I've got an outlet in my new house that was meant for a tanning bed (30 amp/250 volt, with a NEMA L6-30P outlet, Cali style), that I would like to use for another project. Found some computer server power strips that are 30 amp that I can plug into wall receptacle, output from power strip is NEMA 6-15/20R 250 volt (12x20 amp outlets, 7500 watts max, 2x20amp breakers, digital amp meter). 

Plan to run 240 volt Lumatek ballasts off of this power strip, do you see any concerns with this setup? Only planning on running 1200-1800 watts, with room for growth. 

Thanks dude! FUNKadelic


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## diablo69 (Nov 9, 2009)

It has a 60 amp service and the panel is to power the furnace ignitor. It has a 30 amp fuse inside. The other guy had a receptacle on it and ran it outside for x mas lights I assume. I wanted to remove his receptacle and run my own cable to the room I'll be using (20ft away) then just use a really good power bar and run 3 air pumps and 3 fans and of course the 1000W ballast. I was going to make a board of my own with a quality timer (metal box) and a sub panel with 2 15 amp breakers. One for the fans etc. and the other for the ballast but, I can make it neat and tidy with the way I was talking about. Last two grows were just extension cords and I didn't like that idea as the plastic time melted it'self to the cheap power bar.
Thanks for your help.

Ben


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## Roland (Nov 9, 2009)

diablo69 said:


> It has a 60 amp service and the panel is to power the furnace ignitor. It has a 30 amp fuse inside. The other guy had a receptacle on it and ran it outside for x mas lights I assume. I wanted to remove his receptacle and run my own cable to the room I'll be using (20ft away) then just use a really good power bar and run 3 air pumps and 3 fans and of course the 1000W ballast. I was going to make a board of my own with a quality timer (metal box) and a sub panel with 2 15 amp breakers. One for the fans etc. and the other for the ballast but, I can make it neat and tidy with the way I was talking about. Last two grows were just extension cords and I didn't like that idea as the plastic time melted it'self to the cheap power bar.
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> Ben


if it has a 30 amp receptacle and a Thirty amp fuse .. I would get the matching male end and use # 10 Esso cord to your new power center .... the plug works as an effective "disconnect" so you can work on it in the future


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## 420pharms (Nov 9, 2009)

im sure its been coverd some were but maybe we could use a wire safe thread 80% deration for cont. use and all the other min. ohms law and things too i would really like to see much more on safety and basics. some of the stuff i have seen and read that people are doing with power concerns me.


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## Roland (Nov 9, 2009)

420pharms said:


> im sure its been coverd some were but maybe we could use a wire safe thread 80% deration for cont. use and all the other min. ohms law and things too i would really like to see much more on safety and basics. some of the stuff i have seen and read that people are doing with power concerns me.


 
*Good idea .. follow the code ! .. it's there for safety*

*Electricity .. can and does kill people .. even 110 Volts ... especially when mixed with water !*


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## diablo69 (Nov 9, 2009)

I think there is a little confusion on both ends. There is a throw switch with a 30 amp fuse in the box. The other guy connected a regular receptacle to that circuit and ran it outside. I have disconnected his cable with receptacle, and plan to run my own cable to the terminals in there and run it to the other room the use a power bar to facilitate my fans, pumps, and ballast. Are you saying that I need a male #10 esso cable with male end and what is that used for?
Ben


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## Roland (Nov 9, 2009)

diablo69 said:


> I think there is a little confusion on both ends. There is a throw switch with a 30 amp fuse in the box. The other guy connected a regular receptacle to that circuit and ran it outside. I have disconnected his cable with receptacle, and plan to run my own cable to the terminals in there and run it to the other room the use a power bar to facilitate my fans, pumps, and ballast. Are you saying that I need a male #10 esso cable with male end and what is that used for?
> Ben


I said .. "if it has a 30 amp receptacle" esso cord is nice because it's made to be stepped on .. and is protected from water, oil etc. ... depends how you are gonna feed your power center .. the 30 amp disconnect is ok if you plan to hard wire your power center .... u need # 10 wire to supply 30 amps of power 

disconnect should be within 50 ft and within sight of equipment


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## wyteboi (Nov 9, 2009)

diablo69 said:


> It has a 60 amp service and the panel is to power the furnace ignitor. It has a 30 amp fuse inside. The other guy had a receptacle on it and ran it outside for x mas lights I assume. I wanted to remove his receptacle and run my own cable to the room I'll be using (20ft away) then just use a really good power bar and run 3 air pumps and 3 fans and of course the 1000W ballast. I was going to make a board of my own with a quality timer (metal box) and a sub panel with 2 15 amp breakers. One for the fans etc. and the other for the ballast but, I can make it neat and tidy with the way I was talking about. Last two grows were just extension cords and I didn't like that idea as the plastic time melted it'self to the cheap power bar.
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> Ben


I am assuming that the wire feeding the furnace box is 12 or 14 gauge ? 
my guess is the 30 amp fuse was an accident , i believe that should be a 15 or 20 amp fuse.
Also is the wire *going to* your "furnace panel" knob and tube?
I would run a new 12 gauge wire to the main panel and u can run all your stuff off that but if you want a "sub panel" with 2 15 amp breakers then you will need to fun a new 10 gauge wire from your main panel.

those old 60 amp fuse boxes are hard to deal with and that old knob an tube can be dangerous somtimes.


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## Roland (Nov 9, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> I am assuming that the wire feeding the furnace box is 12 or 14 gauge ?
> my guess is the 30 amp fuse was an accident , i believe that should be a 15 or 20 amp fuse.
> Also is the wire *going to* your "furnace panel" knob and tube?
> I would run a new 12 gauge wire to the main panel and u can run all your stuff off that but if you want a "sub panel" with 2 15 amp breakers then you will need to fun a new 10 gauge wire from your main panel.
> ...


good point .. if u don't have new #6 wire to disconnect .. and if it's knob and tube .... disregard my comment above please ... 

if it's old fuse box .. I would definitely upgrade .... I don't touch knob and tube .. except to demo out .. wyteboi is absolutely correct ...old and Brittle ... insulation falls off when u touch it sometimes ..

shhheeeeeshhh .. hard to advise unless u see the whole problem .....


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## diablo69 (Nov 9, 2009)

It's older wire but not knob and tube. Probably 12 ga from what I remember. I'm not there right now. No room for another circuit. They already put a sub in for the dryer and stove. Only option is to run from that furnace shut off as far as I can see. Sorry I haven't sent the photos yet. I'll try to get them to you later in the day.
Ben


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## wyteboi (Nov 9, 2009)

diablo69 said:


> It's older wire but not knob and tube. Probably 12 ga from what I remember. I'm not there right now. No room for another circuit. They already put a sub in for the dryer and stove. Only option is to run from that furnace shut off as far as I can see. Sorry I haven't sent the photos yet. I'll try to get them to you later in the day.
> Ben


*IF *that wire is dedicated (has its own fuse) then you will be able to use that for at least the 1000 , and a couple small fans. (my guess is its only 14 wire so you will only have about 11 amps to play with and that 1000 is about 8.5 amps by itself.) 
Also i am guessing your furnace is tied in with other outlets in the home , so u would have to test first before "setting up" 

when u get the money u have to upgrade that service! Everyone Needs at least 100amp breaker box! with the dryer and stove on at the same time u are almost maxing it out already!


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## diablo69 (Nov 9, 2009)

I know, if it were my house it would have been replaced long ago but it isn't and I'm not putting out the money for a house that I rent. We're looking for our own place in the country with a nice shop and no neighbours to bug if you know what I mean. 
Thanks again


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## curioushiker (Nov 9, 2009)

Roland said:


> sounds like it should be fine .... to be sure .... look at labels on all devices and find watts add them up and divide by 110 .. that will give you amps
> 
> watts / voltage = amps


 Roland, just to be safe I added another 20 amp breaker and Two GFI combination switches for the pumps.
Just wanted to be on the safe side. It was easy to do since the siding aint up yet.
Oh yeah, this reminds me. I came up about 30' short of 12/2 Romex. I have a 250' roll of direct burial 12/2 romex. Would it be safe to use about 30' in my insulated walls. I have been told that it could possibly heat up. Any thoughts on this?
Thanks.


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## Roland (Nov 9, 2009)

curioushiker said:


> Roland, just to be safe I added another 20 amp breaker and Two GFI combination switches for the pumps.
> Just wanted to be on the safe side. It was easy to do since the siding aint up yet.
> Oh yeah, this reminds me. I came up about 30' short of 12/2 Romex. I have a 250' roll of direct burial 12/2 romex. Would it be safe to use about 30' in my insulated walls. I have been told that it could possibly heat up. Any thoughts on this?
> Thanks.


I don't think there is any restriction on using direct burial romex in the walls .. in fact ..I used it once in an attic .. it's just hard as heck to get it to lay flat and it's REALLY hard to strip ... personally .. I'd save the direct burial stuff and get a fifty ft roll of regular Romex to finish out inside .. that's just me though ... I know the price of copper is "thru the roof " now .. I haven't bought wire for a long time ..

ok .. I just checked the code book .. all it says is .. "underground direct burial cable shall be protected till the point of entrance. " ... [into the building ](paraphrased ).. so once it is in the building .. it's ok 

in other words .. it's ok to use in the walls


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## curioushiker (Nov 9, 2009)

rock and roll! Thanks again.


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## Roland (Nov 9, 2009)

curioushiker said:


> rock and roll! Thanks again.


No prob .. glad I could help .. I think you'll like the extra circuit .. there if u EVER need it ..


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## diablo69 (Nov 10, 2009)

Hi, I think you're sending me this info by mistake. I was asking with regard to adding circuit from a furnace shut off, not a tanning room or whatever it was.
Thanks, I appreciate your sharing of knowledge and hope that I can reciprocate some day.


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## johndoecangrow (Nov 10, 2009)

have you heard that you can use a MH bulb in a HPS ballast just not the other way around. I thought you couldn't switch them at all but maybe I'm wrong
THANXS


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## AquafinaOrbit (Nov 10, 2009)

johndoecangrow said:


> have you heard that you can use a MH bulb in a HPS ballast just not the other way around. I thought you couldn't switch them at all but maybe I'm wrong
> THANXS


You need a conversion bulb, either MH conversion or HPS conversion


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## travish413 (Nov 10, 2009)

johndoecangrow said:


> have you heard that you can use a MH bulb in a HPS ballast just not the other way around. I thought you couldn't switch them at all but maybe I'm wrong
> THANXS


 Yes, I am pretty sure you can do this but havent tried it myself. Have heard that the bulbs wont last near as long though. And yeah just a mh in a hps ballast not the other way around. Would be best to just invest in a conversion bulb.


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## wyteboi (Nov 10, 2009)

johndoecangrow said:


> have you heard that you can use a MH bulb in a HPS ballast just not the other way around. I thought you couldn't switch them at all but maybe I'm wrong
> THANXS


hmmm?? where did my post go ?

anyways i have had a 400 MH running in a 400HPS ballast for over a year. it was the bulb that came with it so i did not pay no attention till one day i seen the tiny sticker on the ballast that said HPS 400 watt. so i put a hps 400 bulb in there and it fired right up! i have not tried to put a hps in a mh ballast though...... i also used to run 400hps bulbs in 150 hps ballast and it worked too. i would not recommend any of this shit , i am just giving my experiences


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## IAm5toned (Nov 10, 2009)

alot of digital ballast can run both both, automatically switches when the ballast is energized


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 10, 2009)

the main diff between a mh and hps ballast s the hps ballast has the igniter. the switchable (non digtals) basically just bypass the igniter.

wyteboi, does the light come instantly or does it 'warm up'?


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## wyteboi (Nov 11, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> the main diff between a mh and hps ballast s the hps ballast has the igniter. the switchable (non digtals) basically just bypass the igniter.
> 
> wyteboi, does the light come instantly or does it 'warm up'?



mine? i use all magnetic ballast so they "warm up" ...... everytime i turn around somebody is havin problems with their digital ballast so i will stick to magnetic. yes i have noticed the MH ones dont have the ignitor . So u are saying a hps will not fire up in a MH ballast? hmmm that does make sense .
i was just sharing my experience , i have it all proper now.


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## bmiquet (Nov 11, 2009)

I appreciate your insight in advance and thanks for offering your advice.

Here is my situation....

I was giving electrical work a try today by adding another outlet in a more ideal location.

In testing the outlet the black(hot) wire hit the side of the outlet box. It sparked and I immediately turned off the circuit. 

In and around the same time that this happened (I cannot be certain the above caused the below but most likely it did).

I have a 100AMP box that runs 7 15amp circuits to my room (6K watts plus lots of heaters). Of the 7 circuits, 4 of them seem to be dead or not working. I tried turning the breakers on and off but they never came back on. Oddly 3 seem to be working fine.

Does anybody have any insight on what I might have done????? I would like to get my circuits working as soon as possible so life can go on and I don't want this to be a big ordeal and I don't know any electricians who I can show my space too.

Your insight is appreciated.


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## travish413 (Nov 11, 2009)

bmiquet said:


> I appreciate your insight in advance and thanks for offering your advice.
> 
> Here is my situation....
> 
> ...


 Im not sure but it sounds like you might have blown the breakers. You might should wait for wyteboi or bigbudballs to answer you bc they are more experienced than me. Roland also knows his shit, but if it was me id just replace one of them and see if it works. 4 15 amp breakers should only cost you like 20 dollars.


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## Roland (Nov 11, 2009)

bmiquet said:


> I appreciate your insight in advance and thanks for offering your advice.
> 
> Here is my situation....
> 
> ...


Glad u didn't get hurt ...

Don't Play with Electricity ,... haha

Blowing one circuit .. shouldn't affect any other circuit 

look at the plugs in the circuit before the one that was shorted and look for any burning .. and check for continuity and* Turn the POWER off !!! when working on wires ... *

One other thought .. could you have tripped a GFI ?


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## wyteboi (Nov 11, 2009)

hey bmi , 
first off 6k plus heaters in one room ... your the man!
second , just how many heaters do u have? and kinda describe um so i got an idea on how much juice they are pulling....
Roland is right in saying "Blowing one circuit .. shouldn't affect any other circuit" but somehow it happened and we gotta figure out why...... by any chance is it every other breaker that does not work? example : top breaker works , one right under it dont , the third one does an so on ?? if this is the case , you "blew up" one phase coming into that box ..... it could be just as simple as : one side of the 100 main works and the other dont ? do u have a tester ... if so make sure BOTH screws on the main breaker are getting 110volts (or more) ..... then repost and let us know how things are going.....


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## haikubutthead (Nov 11, 2009)

I use a UPS battery backup for my 396gph pumps in case of electrical outage. It is now time to replace the batteries. It take two small (motorcycle battery size) batteries, 12V, 7amp. Can I somehow use a big RV deep cycle battery instead? Longer life, etc.


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## bmiquet (Nov 11, 2009)

Thanks for the insight gents. I am making progress but not there yet, your continued insight is appreciated.

Of the 7 breakers on the panel, 4 are out (including the one I fiddled with) and 3 work fine. All 15amp.

Six of the breaker have a 1000W light on it and some have a 300-500W heater and others have fans, etc. I figure each is running close to max at 12-14amps. That is how I set it up anyways.

I have jimmy rigged my op so that 4 of 6 lights are on including other key electrical like heating pads for clones etc. so I have bought myself a few hours to get the real issue resolved.

I am going to make a trip to the store to pick up some new breakers and a tester. The circuit box I have has 8 areas for circuits and I have two free spots. I am thinking I will start by getting two more 15AMP breakers and move two of the critical not working ones to those, then I can tackle the broken ones. Make sense?

Something interesting. I had a spare breaker and I swapped it with one of the not working ones and it still didn't work????? What could that mean?

Please let me know your thoughts and insights on next steps.


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## bmiquet (Nov 11, 2009)

I should also mention my panel is 100amps and is a pony panel that comes off the main power.

I am not sure exactly what a GFI is but I don't think I have one on this panel and I don't think I tripped one. How can I be certain?

Also, someone recommended that I might have blown something inside the main meter box that has a wax security bracket. Could that be possible?


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 11, 2009)

mi, why did it spark when you were working on it? Missed rule #1: turn off the power and *verify* that its off.

I have wired up wall switches live. But I'll use the rubber gloves (the ones for elec work)

You should have just tripped a breaker in the normal panel, not inside the utilities company. If thats not it, its possible yo *might* have blown off a loose connection _somewhere_ along the run. (if you are just tapping off to add this outlet)

I don't mean to sound like a prick, but I think you are in over your head. Just looking out for ya. Got a buddy that knows this stuff? (but then that kinda breaks rule 1 of growing, don't tell anyone)

haikubutthead
Maybe you can. Recharging lead acid batteries is typically at 10% of the rated output current and a few volts over the batteries output voltage.
What I would do for a el Cheapo, is get new batteries, a extra one or two. Charge them up normally, swap out for the extra. Once they are all charged up, the charging circuit won't be overly taxed maintaining all them, so you can tie them together for a longer run time. But the prob is if the power comes back up when you aren't there. A little relay logic can put a safeguard for that.


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## doobie_brother (Nov 11, 2009)

do i need a relay for a 600 watt hps if its only the one bulb? 13 amp timer and plug


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## Roland (Nov 11, 2009)

GFI = GFCI ( Ground Fault Circuit Interruptor ) like you see in bathrooms .. that have 2 little buttons .. one says test .. the other says reset .. push in the

reset .. also do you have power strips ? .. they also have built in overload protection and there is usually a reset button .... did you reset the main breaker ? 

Even though they are 2 pole .. and should trip both phases if overloaded .. they sometimes only trip one of the two .. try resetting MAIN ... other than that ... 

I'd say ... make friends with an electrician that smokes .... Man I wish I could take a look at it before giving too much advice


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## Roland (Nov 11, 2009)

doobie_brother said:


> do i need a relay for a 600 watt hps if its only the one bulb? 13 amp timer and plug


A relay is just a switch ... that is usually connected to some type of sensor ... ( humidity .. temp. , ..... CO2 etc) they can be 110 or low voltage .. depending on how it's set up 

for instance a humidity sensor/controller with 110 output allows u to plug a fan into sensor and when the humidity reaches certain level ..your 110V device comes on

so .. the short answer is ..u don't need a relay to turn on a light from a timer ...

13 amps on a 15 amp circuit is a lot (125% of 13 amps = 18.75 .... u need a 20 amp circuit for that) ...u can get breakers that are rated for 100% of maximum allowable current (for continuous load


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## 1ostbo1z (Nov 11, 2009)

hey bricktown ive got a problem here just moved to a new place. theres 2 breaker boxes on e at the front house and another in my house ( the back house ) there are 6 gauge wires going into the breakers now with 60 amp and im trying to run 8000w but was told i couldn't. so what do u think my situation is right now? i have 80 clones now in 16oz cup under a 1000w and i need to finish up before they take over that cup. please help
if i could run 220 with that white box ( holds 8 220 plug at 40 amps ) thats what the hydro guy says then i cool with that too!


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## wyteboi (Nov 11, 2009)

1ostbo1z said:


> hey bricktown ive got a problem here just moved to a new place. theres 2 breaker boxes on e at the front house and another in my house ( the back house ) there are 6 gauge wires going into the breakers now with 60 amp and im trying to run 8000w but was told i couldn't. so what do u think my situation is right now? i have 80 clones now in 16oz cup under a 1000w and i need to finish up before they take over that cup. please help
> if i could run 220 with that white box ( holds 8 220 plug at 40 amps ) thats what the hydro guy says then i cool with that too!


one 60amp panel is not enough for 8000 and both 60 amp panels is pushin it if u plan on living there....appliances....ect...
plus A/C for all them lights. 
now if u run them all 220 (thats 16 breaker spaces) then u can do it. thats just alot of light for 80! i would say 4 1000's topps. do u have 16 available spots in your breaker boxes ?


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## Roland (Nov 11, 2009)

1ostbo1z said:


> hey bricktown ive got a problem here just moved to a new place. theres 2 breaker boxes on e at the front house and another in my house ( the back house ) there are 6 gauge wires going into the breakers now with 60 amp and im trying to run 8000w but was told i couldn't. so what do u think my situation is right now? i have 80 clones now in 16oz cup under a 1000w and i need to finish up before they take over that cup. please help
> if i could run 220 with that white box ( holds 8 220 plug at 40 amps ) thats what the hydro guy says then i cool with that too!


 
I started to give you a reasonable answer and it kept getting longer and longer .. then I started adding safety issues ....

so I deleted it .....

haha ...I don't have time to interpret and explain the code ..haha that'd take years 

So .. 60 amp is to your subpanel .. which appareantly supplies the (back house ) ... u can run 2 - 220 V lights .. with ballasts on a 15 amp 220 circuit ..... 


but you need to consider the total load on the 60 amp panel ...... *Like wyteboi said above ^^*

You can run 3 - 1000 W lights on a 20 amp circuit ... it requires # 12 wire for a 20 amp circuit


Good Luck ... be safe !!! .........

I'm reluctant to give you too much .._advice _ ... I don't want anyone to get hurt or have a fire .........


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## curioushiker (Nov 11, 2009)

Roland, I added up my total AMPS used. This is worst case scenario. I came up with just under 80 amps. I installed a 100 amp sub panel fed from a 200 amp main panel. The only thing I did not add to the equation was a 2hp chiller and water pump. I am not sure if I am going to go that route. Isnt there a "rule of thumb" as to not to exceed 80% of the feed?


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## curioushiker (Nov 11, 2009)

Oh yeah, and why do I hear so much about "throwing up red flags" if our power bill is too high? If we pay it, and assuming that what we are doing is legal then why worry?
I have read that there is a concern with todays new smart meters. 
Is this a valid concern? Are we to believe that the power companies and the law are in cahoots?


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## bmiquet (Nov 11, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> hey bmi ,
> first off 6k plus heaters in one room ... your the man!
> second , just how many heaters do u have? and kinda describe um so i got an idea on how much juice they are pulling....
> Roland is right in saying "Blowing one circuit .. shouldn't affect any other circuit" but somehow it happened and we gotta figure out why...... by any chance is it every other breaker that does not work? example : top breaker works , one right under it dont , the third one does an so on ?? if this is the case , you "blew up" one phase coming into that box ..... it could be just as simple as : one side of the 100 main works and the other dont ? do u have a tester ... if so make sure BOTH screws on the main breaker are getting 110volts (or more) ..... then repost and let us know how things are going.....


wyteboi

You hit the nail on the head

1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8

is the breaker formation in the box. 1,2,5,6 work fine and the other four don't. I am going to get a tester tomorrow, but I assume your hypothesis is true. Assuming so what would I do next?

Thanks


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## JohnQPub (Nov 11, 2009)

Had a question or two for whoever wishes to chime in.

I'm bringing in a 100A sub-panel into my basement with a #2 Aluminum feeder line. The main has 200A service, 20A of which is being used at any given time.

The first picture is of the sub-panel. My first questions are: 

1. I couldn't fit the entire ground wire into one screw port, so I split it over two on the bus. Will this cause issues?

2. Should I cut the hot leads so they don't bow outwards or is my current setup alright?


As for the main panel, I plan to remove an unused 50A double pole breaker (as circled) and replace it with a 100A of the same brand to feed the basement.

1. I think I may be out of room for a ground/neutral line, how can I find which of them is unused?

2. Any foreseeable issues with this arrangement?

Thanks in advance.


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## Roland (Nov 12, 2009)

80 % applies to continuous loads ... since your lights are on for mor than 3 straight hours you shoildn't exceed 80% of that circuit breakers maximum amperage 

I don't think the chiller wold be considered continuously running ... the pump might be

U CAN get breakers that are rated for continuous maximum alllowable load .. is that including 220/230 V lighting ? ... 80 amps is a LOT of power 

a 2 hp chiller = 760W x 2 = 1520 Watts [email protected] 220 V .... 1520/220 = 6.9 amps


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## 1ostbo1z (Nov 12, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> one 60amp panel is not enough for 8000 and both 60 amp panels is pushin it if u plan on living there....appliances....ect...
> plus A/C for all them lights.
> now if u run them all 220 (thats 16 breaker spaces) then u can do it. thats just alot of light for 80! i would say 4 1000's topps. do u have 16 available spots in your breaker boxes ?


nope i dont have enough space in the breaker box.it could only fit a total of 6 breakers in there. so there is no way i can change the amperage to 100amps on that 6 gauge so that i can run all 8 lites. i freakn set everything up and now probably have to take it down. 

oh this might not b the appropriate place to ask but if i have a closed room with lights, exhaust fans and ac running do i still have to have fresh air going in to the room?


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## Mr.Therapy Man (Nov 12, 2009)

Hey bro,Ive got a juice box that buzzes lately and Ive had more watts running than Im running now.My question is why is this started buzzing louder lately and how dangerous is this?......peace


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## wyteboi (Nov 12, 2009)

Mr.Therapy Man said:


> Hey bro,Ive got a juice box that buzzes lately and Ive had more watts running than Im running now.My question is why is this started buzzing louder lately and how dangerous is this?......peace


im sorry im stupid but whats a juice box? the fridge? or a chiller?


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## Mr.Therapy Man (Nov 12, 2009)

Breakerbox that runs the power to your home!


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## wyteboi (Nov 12, 2009)

bmiquet said:


> wyteboi
> 
> You hit the nail on the head
> 
> ...


sorry it took so long , but u have "blew" one phase of your panel . If u were to test the main breaker , only one side is gonna be putting out 120 volts, the other side will be "dead" or not reading right.
To fix we must have a tester (that reads how many volts) i need to know where exactly we "lost" the second phase? 
First with leather or rubber gloves , turn main breaker off and then back on ...... the movement might be enough to turn it back on, or the main breaker might just be bad.
cause when one side of a 2 pole breaker "pops" then both sides should "pop". 
Is this 100 amp panel a sub ? (coming off another panel)... if so we want to check the breaker feeding your 100 and the big wires going to/from the 100. usally if u look close enough u will find the problem. now if this is your only panel in the house then the problem may be in the meter base outside ? come back when u have a tester.........
(dont forget the big wires feeding your 100 amp panel are hot no matter if u shut off the 100 amp breaker)


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## wyteboi (Nov 12, 2009)

Mr.Therapy Man said:


> Breakerbox that runs the power to your home!



 <--- me

alright we do not want ANY buzzing coming from the box. if it dont bother u , then turn off each breaker one by one until u find out which is buzzing. "Buzzing" is ussally the first sign of a fire .... no joke. the buzzing u hear is more then likely , sizzling or arcing , probably caused by a bad/loose breaker . U NEED to get on that one...
let me know how it goes


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## curioushiker (Nov 12, 2009)

Roland said:


> 80 % applies to continuous loads ... since your lights are on for mor than 3 straight hours you shoildn't exceed 80% of that circuit breakers maximum amperage
> 
> I don't think the chiller wold be considered continuously running ... the pump might be
> 
> ...


The figure I came up with was TOTAL amps. This includes any future expansion if I decided to go that route.
If I did go with a chiller it would undoubtedly be installed outside so I would at that point wire it into the main panel with a dedicated breaker.
Depending on the light cycles some equipment would be on and off at different times but would overlap on the on cycles. (hope that makes sense)


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## curioushiker (Nov 12, 2009)

Wytboi and Roland, just wanted to thank you guys again for helping us out. I know it can be riskiy giving out this info but I am betting you guys may have already saved some of us from disaster. 
Thanks again for helping us out.


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## wyteboi (Nov 12, 2009)

curioushiker said:


> The figure I came up with was TOTAL amps. This includes any future expansion if I decided to go that route.
> If I did go with a chiller it would undoubtedly be installed outside so I would at that point wire it into the main panel with a dedicated breaker.
> Depending on the light cycles some equipment would be on and off at different times but would overlap on the on cycles. (hope that makes sense)


then u will be fine , if u did ur math right. the way u put it , the only time u will ever hit 80 amps is during the "overlap" so u are fine like that. you are not in the fire hazard range . especially if everything is new , wires breakers ect.....
(if i planned on 80 amps i would upgrade to a 200 amp service but thats just me tryin to save a couple bucks on the bill , not much but a little......... its not necessary to upgrade , i am just sayin what i would do...)


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## curioushiker (Nov 12, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> then u will be fine , if u did ur math right. the way u put it , the only time u will ever hit 80 amps is during the "overlap" so u are fine like that. you are not in the fire hazard range . especially if everything is new , wires breakers ect.....
> (if i planned on 80 amps i would upgrade to a 200 amp service but thats just me tryin to save a couple bucks on the bill , not much but a little......... its not necessary to upgrade , i am just sayin what i would do...)


You mean upgrade my sub panel to a 200 amp? My main is a 200 amp already. I was thinking that I should have gone with a 125 amp sub panel.


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## curioushiker (Nov 12, 2009)

sorry for the ignorance. How does the higher amp panel save money?


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## wyteboi (Nov 12, 2009)

curioushiker said:


> sorry for the ignorance. How does the higher amp panel save money?


i dont think YOU can upgrade to 200 with a 200 main , but u can go 125.
The less resistance , the lower the bill .
this is very hard to explain but here goes: 

IF u were to use every other breaker in the box , then u would be putting all your load on one phase of the power .... which puts a huge load on your neutral wire. so if one of your phases is only using 2 amps and the other one is using 40 amps then the load on the neutral _should _be 38 amps. which will make your bill alot higher then, say one phase is using 20 amps and the other phase is using 22 amps that means the load on your neutral is only 2 amps. thats alot less resistance which means a little less bill. (disclaimer: i am not a "master" i am just a residential electrician so i still have alot to learn , so im sorry if my info is hard to understand or if i am not 100% right )
maybe roland/bigballs can help me here.....


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## JohnQPub (Nov 12, 2009)

JohnQPub said:


> Had a question or two for whoever wishes to chime in.
> 
> I'm bringing in a 100A sub-panel into my basement with a #2 Aluminum feeder line. The main has 200A service, 20A of which is being used at any given time.
> 
> ...


No one wants to ring in?


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## wyteboi (Nov 12, 2009)

JohnQPub said:


> Had a question or two for whoever wishes to chime in.
> 
> I'm bringing in a 100A sub-panel into my basement with a #2 Aluminum feeder line. The main has 200A service, 20A of which is being used at any given time.
> 
> ...


No it should not cause issues , but an inspector wouldn't like it. (It FITS its just a bitch sometimes, u have to take the screw all the way out so u can see what u are doing and of course the wire has to be nice an tight "perfect cut", but u are just fine like u are )



JohnQPub said:


> 2. Should I cut the hot leads so they don't bow outwards or is my current setup alright?


just gently push them back in the box as far as u can. (just gives more room to work with all the wires comin in) 
i would leave it just like that , it gives u extra room for future remodels/new panels an shit. 



JohnQPub said:


> As for the main panel, I plan to remove an unused 50A double pole breaker (as circled) and replace it with a 100A of the same brand to feed the basement.
> 
> 1. I think I may be out of room for a ground/neutral line, how can I find which of them is unused?


not really sure what u are saying? are u asking how to find a spot in the old box for your #2 neutral ? they make an adapter to add a bigger wire to those lil spaces, also u could just do like u did on the 100 amp...an split it up. If u have no empty spots on the ground/neutral bar then u can take and put 2 of the existing ones in one space to free up space. (you can put 2 wires under one screw *IF* they are both the same gauge wire , this apply's to 14, and 12 gauge wire only) example: 1 12 wire and 1 14 wire can not go under same screw.



JohnQPub said:


> 2. Any foreseeable issues with this arrangement?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


looks good to me


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## JohnQPub (Nov 12, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> No it should not cause issues , but an inspector wouldn't like it. (It FITS its just a bitch sometimes, u have to take the screw all the way out so u can see what u are doing and of course the wire has to be nice an tight "perfect cut", but u are just fine like u are )
> 
> just gently push them back in the box as far as u can. (just gives more room to work with all the wires comin in)
> i would leave it just like that , it gives u extra room for future remodels/new panels an shit.
> ...



Thanks so much. May all your grows be bountiful.


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## Gorgonic (Nov 12, 2009)

Hey brickhouse. My first post on the board. Right now I'm researching the best way to do this. My question is one aimed at reducing evidence by means of power records that could be accessed by local police and used to get a search warrant. I've read that though it isn't routinely released information, power companies can track spikes in power usage that could indicate lights powering on and off cyclicly. 

I've looked into generators and emergency backup storage devices. They are mostly expensive and the cheaper ones have a short lived supply. I don't expect you to tell me all the nuts and bolts but is there a direction you can point me, assuming its effective, for a home built power storage system, one that would capture power in a constant state? My uneducated guess is that a person could draw from the battery bank and this would eliminate the power spikes as would exist in a direct power flow.

Hope I have explained this properly. Cheers, gorgo


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## wyteboi (Nov 12, 2009)

Gorgonic said:


> power companies can track spikes in power usage that could indicate lights powering on and off cyclicly.


the only thing they can read is how much power u use every *month *not every "spike"
the only time one worries about the power company is when u have had a very consistent small bill (for years) and then it jumps up to alot (lets say from 50 to 180)
then they *might *call *you* and ask you if u know why ur bill is so high . (just to let u know that it is way above normal) 
now if your bill is 50 then 150 then 70 then 210 an so on, then they might tip the police that something aint right. 
Most of the time when someone gets busted from the power company then it is because they are trying to steal power or do somthing plain stupid. (one example of stupid would be : if they do call and ask u if u know why ur bill is higher then normal , then u say "i leave my lights on at night" or "yea i got 5 computers running" ....... thats just not enough to raise it so then they know ur hiding somthing.
(i know i didnt really answer the question but thats my 1.5 cents on it


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## Roland (Nov 12, 2009)

curioushiker said:


> Oh yeah, and why do I hear so much about "throwing up red flags" if our power bill is too high? If we pay it, and assuming that what we are doing is legal then why worry?
> I have read that there is a concern with todays new smart meters.
> Is this a valid concern? Are we to believe that the power companies and the law are in cahoots?


haha of course they are ... wyteboi said it right .. in some areas the law has asked the power co's to report increased usage .. then they come by or fly over ... such a relief that Obama told the fed's to back off on medicinal growers ... I hate bein paranoid .... hahahaha



bmiquet said:


> wyteboi
> 
> You hit the nail on the head
> 
> ...


did you look at the main panel ? and reset the breaker that feeds your subpanel ? turn the two pole breaker OFF then back ON ?



JohnQPub said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


U need to get a # 2 lug to bolt into the ground bus bar and twist that #2 wire into a single stranded cable .. why did you go with aluminum ? u should use noLox on the wire and be sure the lug is OK for Aluminum ... aluminum has heat issues over time ... I know al. is cheaper ...wyteboi is prob right ... it probably will work the way you have it .... but .... credit is given for more workmanlike work


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## Roland (Nov 12, 2009)

Gorgonic said:


> Hey brickhouse. My first post on the board. Right now I'm researching the best way to do this. My question is one aimed at reducing evidence by means of power records that could be accessed by local police and used to get a search warrant. I've read that though it isn't routinely released information, power companies can track spikes in power usage that could indicate lights powering on and off cyclicly.
> 
> I've looked into generators and emergency backup storage devices. They are mostly expensive and the cheaper ones have a short lived supply. I don't expect you to tell me all the nuts and bolts but is there a direction you can point me, assuming its effective, for a home built power storage system, one that would capture power in a constant state? My uneducated guess is that a person could draw from the battery bank and this would eliminate the power spikes as would exist in a direct power flow.
> 
> Hope I have explained this properly. Cheers, gorgo


A battery storage system requires a battery charger .. then an inverter to convert it back into AC power .. it can be done .. also takes a transfer switch to switch back and forth between inverter and regular supply ... gets expensive


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## Roland (Nov 12, 2009)

Hey wyteboi .. how do you do the multiple answer in a single quote ... ?


Good job keepin' up on things!


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## curioushiker (Nov 12, 2009)

In my neck of the woods LEo aint a whole lot concerned about growers with cards. I know of One case where LEO's csme to my friends house because of a complaint, unrelated to his grow and discovered that he had about 200 more plants than he was allowed. All they did was reduce the number to his limit and told him to have a nice day. No charges of any kind to date. 
Keep in mind this is in the states so your milage may vary


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## curioushiker (Nov 12, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> i dont think YOU can upgrade to 200 with a 200 main , but u can go 125.
> The less resistance , the lower the bill .
> this is very hard to explain but here goes:
> 
> ...


Makes sense to me. In fact perfect sense for some reason.
But what I dont understand is how the 25 extra amps at the sub makes any difference. 
For example. My 100 amp sub has Eight spaces, Seven of which are used right now. One curcuit is used for Two small water pumps. The other Two 120v curcuits are for outlets, half the outlets to One the other half to the other curcuit. Then there are the Two 220 curcuits. 
If I am correct the feed wire is rated to 125 amps (#2 copper) so I guess I could upgrade if needed but I figured I would rather have my breakers be the week link versus the wire? 
Man if I let the stuff get away from me it can get real confusing.


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## ascaryblackguy (Nov 13, 2009)

is it possible to splice a computer fan to run off ac power its an old school windows 95 fan 12v 0.35 a brushless fan it has 3 cords so im kinda confuzzled a bit but i wanna splice it so i can use it as a vent in my stealth grow box dresser so i need it to run at 0 sound is his possible ? o and could i splice it to a adapter that runs 12v 1.5 a with 100-240v input :S


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## haikubutthead (Nov 13, 2009)

haikubutthead said:


> I use a UPS battery backup for my 396gph pumps in case of electrical outage. It is now time to replace the batteries. It take two small (motorcycle battery size) batteries, 12V, 7amp. Can I somehow use a big RV deep cycle battery instead? Longer life, etc.


One RV battery is cheaper than replacing the two smaller batteries. Anyone?


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## wyteboi (Nov 13, 2009)

haikubutthead said:


> One RV battery is cheaper than replacing the two smaller batteries. Anyone?


i am really not sure but i dont think its that easy.


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## wyteboi (Nov 13, 2009)

curioushiker said:


> Makes sense to me. In fact perfect sense for some reason.
> But what I dont understand is how the 25 extra amps at the sub makes any difference.
> For example. My 100 amp sub has Eight spaces, Seven of which are used right now. One curcuit is used for Two small water pumps. The other Two 120v curcuits are for outlets, half the outlets to One the other half to the other curcuit. Then there are the Two 220 curcuits.
> If I am correct the feed wire is rated to 125 amps (#2 copper) so I guess I could upgrade if needed but I figured I would rather have my breakers be the week link versus the wire?
> Man if I let the stuff get away from me it can get real confusing.


u do not need to do anything, u are fine the way u are. if i knew i was going to be running 80 CONSTANT then i would go with a 125 , but thats just me.... your setup is "safe" (as long as everything is hooked up right)


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 13, 2009)

not entirely true. newer digital meters can record usage trends.



wyteboi said:


> the only thing they can read is how much power u use every *month *not every "spike"
> the only time one worries about the power company is when u have had a very consistent small bill (for years) and then it jumps up to alot (lets say from 50 to 180)
> then they *might *call *you* and ask you if u know why ur bill is so high . (just to let u know that it is way above normal)
> now if your bill is 50 then 150 then 70 then 210 an so on, then they might tip the police that something aint right.
> ...


----------



## curioushiker (Nov 13, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> u do not need to do anything, u are fine the way u are. if i knew i was going to be running 80 CONSTANT then i would go with a 125 , but thats just me.... your setup is "safe" (as long as everything is hooked up right)


I got ya. You were referring to overall load vs sub panel rating. Yeah, I know when I figured my amps I was very liberal in the numbers being that there are some variables, like the circulating fans that I wll run, how many ets etc. 
I know things always change. If I need to change my sub I can do that easy enough.
Can you tell me what is the physical difference between a 100 and 125 amp sub panel? Are the lugs and buses bigger?


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## bmiquet (Nov 13, 2009)

I have tested and the red one going into my 100amp pony box is dead while the black is the usual 120.

I am going to post some pics tomorrow so you can see.

My system has:

1. Meter with lead cap from utility company

2. a big main breaker with two 100amp fuses inside (scary looking)

then it runs to a few 30amp old school fuse boxes and my pony panel.

Any thoughts on next steps?



wyteboi said:


> sorry it took so long , but u have "blew" one phase of your panel . If u were to test the main breaker , only one side is gonna be putting out 120 volts, the other side will be "dead" or not reading right.
> To fix we must have a tester (that reads how many volts) i need to know where exactly we "lost" the second phase?
> First with leather or rubber gloves , turn main breaker off and then back on ...... the movement might be enough to turn it back on, or the main breaker might just be bad.
> cause when one side of a 2 pole breaker "pops" then both sides should "pop".
> ...


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## greenx (Nov 13, 2009)

Hi

I have aquired 2x 250W HPS flood lights with asymmetrical mirrors and im wondering how best to utilize them.

They came with MH bulbs so the first question is, can they take the HPS bulbs i intend to buy?

On the Ballast, it says 250w, i assume that is the max the ballast can handle and trying to put a bigger bulb in would not work or damage the ballast.

Since those lamps are quite heavy im wondering if it is all right to remove all electronics from the lamp and rewire the connection from ballast to bulb to increase lenght of wires and allow for cooltube setup.

How can i tell if the ballast is 'Electronic' or the old type (whatever that is called).

How can i tell if the ballast is HO (High Output) and so determine if a HO bulb would be an improvement.

Thanks for the help, greatly appreciated.

GreenX


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## wyteboi (Nov 14, 2009)

bmiquet said:


> I have tested and the red one going into my 100amp pony box is dead while the black is the usual 120.
> 
> I am going to post some pics tomorrow so you can see.
> 
> ...


so you have a 200 amp fuse box running the 100amp ?
you checked the main wire going into the 100amp breaker .... did u test the same wire in the 200 amp fuse box? 
Are all ur other plugs/lights (from the 200) working ? 
you need to test both of those 100amp fuses first....... one of them is proly old and burnt up..? *IF *u have the full amount of juice coming out of both phases of the 200 the the problem HAS to be in between the 200 and the 100 (in the wire) ..... but i bet its somthing IN that 200 and not a wire?
thats ur next step..........

"1. Meter with lead cap from utility company" <----what does this mean?


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## wyteboi (Nov 14, 2009)

greenx said:


> Hi
> 
> I have aquired 2x 250W HPS flood lights with asymmetrical mirrors and im wondering how best to utilize them.
> 
> They came with MH bulbs so the first question is, can they take the HPS bulbs i intend to buy?


If you know its a hps ballast then yes the 250hps bulb will work fine.



greenx said:


> On the Ballast, it says 250w, i assume that is the max the ballast can handle and trying to put a bigger bulb in would not work or damage the ballast.


yea you want to stick with a 250 



greenx said:


> Since those lamps are quite heavy im wondering if it is all right to remove all electronics from the lamp and rewire the connection from ballast to bulb to increase lenght of wires and allow for cooltube setup.


Yes thats the best way to do it 



greenx said:


> How can i tell if the ballast is 'Electronic' or the old type (whatever that is called).
> 
> How can i tell if the ballast is HO (High Output) and so determine if a HO bulb would be an improvement.
> 
> ...


i have never owned a digital ballast so i dont know much about them ..... if the bulbs fires up very fast then it is digital.... a old magnetic ballast will "warm up" the bulb first.... ( it keeps gettin brighter until fully lit up) also a HO bulb can be used in any ballast . (if its a 250 HO then it will work fine in a 250 ballast) i am not sure i have ever seen a bulb claim "HO" but i believe ya. (except floro's and cfl's )


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## greenx (Nov 14, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> If you know its a hps ballast then yes the 250hps bulb will work fine.


Therein lies the dilemma, i have absolutely no idea what kind of ballast it is but the lights did have MH bulbs in them when aquired. How can i discover this ?




wyteboi said:


> yea you want to stick with a 250
> 
> 
> Yes thats the best way to do it
> ...


HO bulbs are a bit more expensive but according to research ive read up on claim from 13-18% more lumens per watt than standard HPS and only work to their full potential with digital/electronic ballasts.

[An magnetic ballast uses 2 hours worth of electricity to start the bulb when a digital/electronic one only uses 1/50 of that]
(Totally unconfirmed but from a pretty reliable electrician i know).

Ive read HO on a bulb and read the small piece of paper that came with it, putting an HO bulb in a magnetic ballast lamp is just waste, u don´t get the extra 13-18% (claimed) output.

Sry for being so long but to recap.
How can i determine what kind of ballast i have and if it will in fact take HPS bulbs as well as those MH that came with it. 

Thanks in advance

GreenX ala Islandia

EDIT : missed that part where u explain about the bulb 'warming up' and hence an magnetic ballast, putting this to the test right now.... will put another edit in a few min.

EDIT NEW : Magnetic, but then the only question remains, how to determine if it takes HPS bulbs.


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## jdub555 (Nov 14, 2009)

wow... nice setup, I'd like to see the babies they control..........


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## wyteboi (Nov 14, 2009)

greenx said:


> [An magnetic ballast uses 2 hours worth of electricity to start the bulb when a digital/electronic one only uses 1/50 of that]
> (Totally unconfirmed but from a pretty reliable electrician i know).


i am positive that is exaggerating a lil bit.
it does take more amps on "startup" on a magnetic, just not 2 hours worth. but the lifespan of a magnetic is WAY longer then digital and they have WAY less problems.





greenx said:


> EDIT : missed that part where u explain about the bulb 'warming up' and hence an magnetic ballast, putting this to the test right now.... will put another edit in a few min.
> 
> EDIT NEW : Magnetic, but then the only question remains, how to determine if it takes HPS bulbs.


can u take the ballast apart ? if u tell me what it looks like inside , i could tell u .....
does it have a name brand on it? or model #'s ?
a hps ballast will fire up a mh bulb , but i am not sure that a mh ballast will fire up a hps bulb....


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## greenx (Nov 14, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> i am positive that is exaggerating a lil bit.
> it does take more amps on "startup" on a magnetic, just not 2 hours worth. but the lifespan of a magnetic is WAY longer then digital and they have WAY less problems.


Yeah, probably more then a lil bit 





wyteboi said:


> can u take the ballast apart ? if u tell me what it looks like inside , i could tell u .....
> does it have a name brand on it? or model #'s ?
> a hps ballast will fire up a mh bulb , but i am not sure that a mh ballast will fire up a hps bulb....


Brand is SBP and the pictures say it all i think and i believe i got my answer 

Seems like it does take HPS, wheee....

I notice on the ignitor that is says 400W for some reason, is it possible i could put 400W bulbs into it ??? 

Anyways, thanks for all the help.....very much appreciated.

GreenX


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## wyteboi (Nov 14, 2009)

That appears to be a 250w digital HPS ballast.

(i am not sure but i dont think that one can be wired up at 110v ?)


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## greenx (Nov 14, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> That appears to be a 250w digital HPS ballast.
> 
> (i am not sure but i dont think that one can be wired up at 110v ?)


We have 240v here in Iceland so i´m good, thanks again.


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## diablo69 (Nov 14, 2009)

I asked a question about building a panel with timer and breaker sub panel but now I can't find it. I looked all over the place but nothing. I am however getting answers from someone asking about other topics. I will include them later as I can't go back without loosing this message.
I don't know how this happened.

Diablo69


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## xsaphirerosex (Nov 14, 2009)

Can i use a 150 watt workmans hanging halide light for my growroom? please help lol


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## wyteboi (Nov 14, 2009)

diablo69 said:


> I asked a question about building a panel with timer and breaker sub panel but now I can't find it. I looked all over the place but nothing. I am however getting answers from someone asking about other topics. I will include them later as I can't go back without loosing this message.
> I don't know how this happened.
> 
> Diablo69


????


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## xsaphirerosex (Nov 14, 2009)

can i use a workmans halide light hanging in a tinfoiled room?


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## MRGREEN1 (Nov 14, 2009)

I have a qick question for you and i haven't read any of the posts so i dont know if anyone has asked this but how many watts maximum can you run on a 15 amp circuit breaker?


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## archaeo (Nov 14, 2009)

MRGREEN1 said:


> I have a qick question for you and i haven't read any of the posts so i dont know if anyone has asked this but how many watts maximum can you run on a 15 amp circuit breaker?


I believe on a 120V circuit you can run about 1800 watts PEAK on 15 amp. Probably safer to run about 80% of that at any one time.


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## LogicalEvolution (Nov 14, 2009)

Thought I would ask in here as well as my own thread.

I have an Australian light fitting, it has four connections. One is marked "L" and another is marked "Earth". The other two are not marked.

Standard power cabling has three wires.

Brown = Live
Yellow = Earth
Blue = Neutral

After wiring it the way I thought it should be I got nothing, I tested the neutral in both of the unmarked points.

Any ideas?


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## wyteboi (Nov 15, 2009)

MRGREEN1 said:


> I have a qick question for you and i haven't read any of the posts so i dont know if anyone has asked this but how many watts maximum can you run on a 15 amp circuit breaker?


1300 NO MORE! <-- that is 75 % of the 15 amps.
(1800watts is MAXING it out)


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## wyteboi (Nov 15, 2009)

LogicalEvolution said:


> Thought I would ask in here as well as my own thread.
> 
> I have an Australian light fitting, it has four connections. One is marked "L" and another is marked "Earth". The other two are not marked.
> 
> ...


its probably a "switched" light socket .(meaning it needs a switch to run)
not sure how to hook it up though ?


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## FreeLeaf (Nov 16, 2009)

Fist off thanks to the electricians on this thread that take the time to help others. Now i have read through a lot of this thread but not all of it. 
I have a question. I will be swapping out my 400w with a 1000w digital as soon as I get this wiring straight. I have to run a 20 amp home run from my breaker on the side of the house to a back closet. I will be laying 12 gauge romex wire but I am a little confused on wether I need 12/2 or 12/3. I understand the 12/3 has 2 hot wires and can be used to run a 2nd 20 amp line in the future if I need it. Is this true? Should I use the 12/3 in case I need to expand my power usage in the future? The 12/3 costs 50% more than the 12/2.
Thanks in advance


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## curioushiker (Nov 16, 2009)

FreeLeaf said:


> Fist off thanks to the electricians on this thread that take the time to help others. Now i have read through a lot of this thread but not all of it.
> I have a question. I will be swapping out my 400w with a 1000w digital as soon as I get this wiring straight. I have to run a 20 amp home run from my breaker on the side of the house to a back closet. I will be laying 12 gauge romex wire but I am a little confused on wether I need 12/2 or 12/3. I understand the 12/3 has 2 hot wires and can be used to run a 2nd 20 amp line in the future if I need it. Is this true? Should I use the 12/3 in case I need to expand my power usage in the future? The 12/3 costs 50% more than the 12/2.
> Thanks in advance


You have it right but if you are not going to add a sub panel to control,(re-route) the power once you get it to the closet then I would just run the 12/2. I know lotsa people run wires to here and there but we need a fire due to a botched wire job like the NRA needs another drive by shooting. 
I am by far a professional when it comes to wiring but if there was ever a place to cut corners wiring would not be it. 
If I were you I would at least wire a 4 outlet gang to you closet fed from at least a 20 amp fuse using a 10/2 wire. That way you would have no less than Four outlets to use. You would have your plug for your light, an exhaust fan and maybe even a smaller fan for extra air circulation.
If none of this fits hold on cause Roland and or Wyteboi are gonna chime in soon.
See-ya.


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## AquafinaOrbit (Nov 16, 2009)

Freeleaf- Really its up to you. Yes 12/3 can run two 20amp circuits as the neutral can be shared between the red and black conductors. If you need that though is not something we can answer for you. To help your decision though just remember to get the load take the watts and divide by the nominal wattage, then take into account that a continuous load circuit(3hrs+ of run time) is to be rated at 80% of its max power or just multiply by 1.25. So for example 1000watts/120=8.3x1.25=10.4Amps is about what that light will be pulling. Now do you need the separate circuit? No idea, but if your going to eventually add more lights or climate control devices like AC or heat then yes it would be a good idea.


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## gottagrow69 (Nov 17, 2009)

rookie question but how do i wire those outdoor lights you see at lowes?


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## newb19547 (Nov 17, 2009)

I got a question. I live in a house that was made into 2 "apartments". Our power blows alot and we have to go switch the breaker. We do use a few 1500 heaters, but we have them plugged in to our downstairs room. If we have 2 of them plugged in upstairs it blows the power..hence them being plugged in downstairs. But the weird thing is our power blows when NOTHING else has been turned on for hours.....ie. we have everything we normally do on, then an hour or more later...the power goes out upstairs and the heaters plugged in downstairs are still fine. We have 3 bedrooms and a bathroom upstairs and I have a feeling that they are all wired together. I think there might even be 1 room downstairs on the same circuit as well. Could that be possible? We also think that maybe something from our neighbors apartment might be on one of our circuits because when our power went..we heard them screaming and whatnot right after. So basically our power goes out at random times...not everyday...but close it seems, and when we have turned nothing new on for at least an hour before it happens. Our landlord just installed 2 electric heaters downstairs and it seems the outages have been more frequent since then, even though we have those 2 turned off all the time. It really sucks because I want to upgrade my lights but there is no way in hell I can if the powers blowing as it is. Could you give me some possibilities on what the problem is and what can be done to fix it? Sorry if its kind of hard to get what I mean, lol. Its late.....


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## wyteboi (Nov 17, 2009)

newb19547 said:


> I got a question. I live in a house that was made into 2 "apartments". Our power blows alot and we have to go switch the breaker. We do use a few 1500 heaters, but we have them plugged in to our downstairs room. If we have 2 of them plugged in upstairs it blows the power..hence them being plugged in downstairs. But the weird thing is our power blows when NOTHING else has been turned on for hours.....ie. we have everything we normally do on, then an hour or more later...the power goes out upstairs and the heaters plugged in downstairs are still fine. We have 3 bedrooms and a bathroom upstairs and I have a feeling that they are all wired together. I think there might even be 1 room downstairs on the same circuit as well. Could that be possible? We also think that maybe something from our neighbors apartment might be on one of our circuits because when our power went..we heard them screaming and whatnot right after. So basically our power goes out at random times...not everyday...but close it seems, and when we have turned nothing new on for at least an hour before it happens. Our landlord just installed 2 electric heaters downstairs and it seems the outages have been more frequent since then, even though we have those 2 turned off all the time. It really sucks because I want to upgrade my lights but there is no way in hell I can if the powers blowing as it is. Could you give me some possibilities on what the problem is and what can be done to fix it? Sorry if its kind of hard to get what I mean, lol. Its late.....


running the same circuit all over the house is kinda normal for some. (whatever is easier for the electrician at that time, they usually dont think about the future)
it sounds like the nighbors are blowing your breakers ? did they get 2 new heaters too? 
do u have any idea how big the "service" is? 100, 200 ?


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## wyteboi (Nov 17, 2009)

FreeLeaf said:


> Fist off thanks to the electricians on this thread that take the time to help others. Now i have read through a lot of this thread but not all of it.
> I have a question. I will be swapping out my 400w with a 1000w digital as soon as I get this wiring straight. I have to run a 20 amp home run from my breaker on the side of the house to a back closet. I will be laying 12 gauge romex wire but I am a little confused on wether I need 12/2 or 12/3. I understand the 12/3 has 2 hot wires and can be used to run a 2nd 20 amp line in the future if I need it. Is this true? Should I use the 12/3 in case I need to expand my power usage in the future? The 12/3 costs 50% more than the 12/2.
> Thanks in advance


a 12/2 is perfect for a 1000 and the fans to go with. If you were to get 12/3 then when u upgrade to 2 circuits then u will have to share a neutral. that is fine if u just need that one last fan on it.... but the chances are if u need another circuit then you need a "full circuit" and using 12/3 for 2 circuits is just "skimping" on the $ . just stick with the 12/2 and if u need more then run another 12/2. 
i am pretty sure that code _used_ to allow this , but i am not gonna recommend.
(i would also say 1800 watts is the max I would run on a 20amp/12 wire circuit.


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## diablo69 (Nov 17, 2009)

quirioushiker, when was my old lady at your place?


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## FreeLeaf (Nov 17, 2009)

Thanks to all who responded


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## curioushiker (Nov 17, 2009)

diablo69 said:


> quirioushiker, when was my old lady at your place?


You aint got nuthin to worry about. Your "old lady" is safe with me.
Its the young one in the picture above and to the left that I would be worried about


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## bmiquet (Nov 17, 2009)

My situation has gone from bad to worse.

So things have gone from bad to worse.

I concluded that the red wire in the 100amp pony box was dead and hence half the box was dead.

As a temporary solution I restructured the electrical needs of my space to run off just the 4 circuits still in operation.

Today the other circuits stopped working. I am away on business (rushing back tomorrow am) and need to fix the problem fast as my temperature is dropping rapidly and too much dark isn't good for anyone.

I am guessing the problem is with the main breaker. 

Any thoughts on how I can get electricity back to my space?


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## riproor (Nov 17, 2009)

FreeLeaf said:


> Fist off thanks to the electricians on this thread that take the time to help others. Now i have read through a lot of this thread but not all of it.
> I have a question. I will be swapping out my 400w with a 1000w digital as soon as I get this wiring straight. I have to run a 20 amp home run from my breaker on the side of the house to a back closet. I will be laying 12 gauge romex wire but I am a little confused on wether I need 12/2 or 12/3. I understand the 12/3 has 2 hot wires and can be used to run a 2nd 20 amp line in the future if I need it. Is this true? Should I use the 12/3 in case I need to expand my power usage in the future? The 12/3 costs 50% more than the 12/2.
> Thanks in advance


ya go with the 12/3 cause you never know when your gonna need more power. if you plan on running wire on the outside of your house, either use UF wire as its rated for outside, or if your just going to use romex, put it in some pvc conduit to protect it, that stuff is dirt cheap and easy to work with.


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## newb19547 (Nov 17, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> running the same circuit all over the house is kinda normal for some. (whatever is easier for the electrician at that time, they usually dont think about the future)
> it sounds like the nighbors are blowing your breakers ? did they get 2 new heaters too?
> do u have any idea how big the "service" is? 100, 200 ?


Not sure about the neighbors or how big the service is. Is there a place I can look?


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## MRGREEN1 (Nov 17, 2009)

Thanks for the help its much appreciated but i have one last question for you. How do you run a new line from the fuse panel to a 120v 15amp or 30amp breaker so that i can run a new line to my room.
thanx again


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## wyteboi (Nov 18, 2009)

bmiquet said:


> My situation has gone from bad to worse.
> 
> So things have gone from bad to worse.
> 
> ...


u need to test both sides of the big fuses while they are on. (the ones in the middle pic) i think/hope both of them are bad and just need replaced? everything else looks "normal"


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## wyteboi (Nov 18, 2009)

newb19547 said:


> Not sure about the neighbors or how big the service is. Is there a place I can look?


look at your main breaker and see how many amps it is ........ THAT is the size of your service...


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## wyteboi (Nov 18, 2009)

MRGREEN1 said:


> Thanks for the help its much appreciated but i have one last question for you. How do you run a new line from the fuse panel to a 120v 15amp or 30amp breaker so that i can run a new line to my room.
> thanx again


well in my country , (for a 15amp circuit) you get some 14/2 romex and you will take the black wire and put it on the breaker screw , and take the white and the bare wire and put them wherever the rest of the "whites are" . on the other end put the black on the gold screw of the outlet and the white on the silver screw and the bare wire on the green screw of the outlet.
a 30 amp breaker is usually for a 220 outlet. and if u do use a 30 amp breaker u will need 10 gauge wire instead of 14........

DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK!


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## diablo69 (Nov 18, 2009)

curioushiker said:


> You aint got nuthin to worry about. Your "old lady" is safe with me.
> Its the young one in the picture above and to the left that I would be worried about


That 's the one I was talking about. From behind she looks just like my son to be ex wife.


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## diablo69 (Nov 18, 2009)

diablo69 said:


> That 's the one I was talking about. From behind she looks just like my son to be ex wife.


It should have read "SOON TO BE EX WIFE" 
I was joking.


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## FreeLeaf (Nov 18, 2009)

Well finally installed the 20 amp outlet and ran the 12/2 through the attic and down into the breaker box (what a pain in the ass!). But I have 1 more question before attaching the wires to the box. I know the bare copper wire is the ground and the white is the neutral but in my box both of these wires seem to be connected to the same bar. ?? What up with that?


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## wyteboi (Nov 18, 2009)

FreeLeaf said:


> Well finally installed the 20 amp outlet and ran the 12/2 through the attic and down into the breaker box (what a pain in the ass!). But I have 1 more question before attaching the wires to the box. I know the bare copper wire is the ground and the white is the neutral but in my box both of these wires seem to be connected to the same bar. ?? What up with that?


That is normal , they are both for the same purpose basically. the ground is just a backup neutral. some electricians will separate the two and some counties require it , but for now it is "standard" to put them in the same place.


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## bmiquet (Nov 18, 2009)

Wyteboi,

I tested the main box and all four connections (both sides of each fuse) have power. I also tested the pony box and neither black or red has power.

What I am doing now is tracing the entire main circuit as it seems somewhere between main box and pony box the line goes dead.

Any other ideas of things I could try?

Thanks.



wyteboi said:


> u need to test both sides of the big fuses while they are on. (the ones in the middle pic) i think/hope both of them are bad and just need replaced? everything else looks "normal"


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 18, 2009)

My understanding of neutral vs ground is:

The power company produces an AC sine wave. The neutral is the middle point between the top and bottom peaks. Now in a perfect world it should be zero volts and also equal to ground.
Now bring in a floating ground. Where the ground can actually have a potential either positive or negative. Or the positive part of the sine wave is 145V and the negative at 95. (just an exaggerated example) Still gives you 240 peak to peak.

After traveling the distances, these can drift a bit, as they pass through many transformers. Inductance, harmonics, etc. happen.

By bonding the neutral to the ground, it kinda evens things out. but I've also been told (but could have gotten it wrong) that, that bonding should only be done in the main box.


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## curioushiker (Nov 18, 2009)

diablo69 said:


> That 's the one I was talking about. From behind she looks just like my son to be ex wife.


 
Hope I dont have anything to do with the divorce...just kidding.
Well, if she is soon to be an ex then I/we here at the Roll it Up think that you should share your lovely pictures of her. I like ot think of it as therapy.


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## curioushiker (Nov 18, 2009)

His guys, got another question that I am hoping you can help with. 
I want to wire Two combination switches for water pumps. One switch for each pump. The switches that I have I got from Home depot. They have a switch on the top and an outlet on the bottom. 
Looking at the switch/outlet on the top left there is a brass colored screw. On the bottom left is a silver screw. On the right side top and bottom screws are both black. 
How can I wire this so that the bottom outlet is controlled by the switch above it.
The screws are labeled as follows.
Top left brass screw says A1. The bottom left says N. The top right says common and the bottom right is not marked. Also on the right side of the switch there is a tab that connects both the top and bottom black screws. This is made to be broken off if needed.
Thanks


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## CHILLINxWITHxMARLEY (Nov 18, 2009)

I'm buying a HPS light (high pressure sodium) and im kinda weary/curious of the difference between a say 1000w HPS Grow light sun system 3 and a 1000W sun system budget gro remote ballast 120/240v... there is a great price difference and im curious about the difference, hookup and anything else?

hers the site with the lights described...
http://www.expresslightbulbs.com/grow-light-hps-grow-lights-c-132_192.html


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## wyteboi (Nov 19, 2009)

curioushiker said:


> His guys, got another question that I am hoping you can help with.
> I want to wire Two combination switches for water pumps. One switch for each pump. The switches that I have I got from Home depot. They have a switch on the top and an outlet on the bottom.
> Looking at the switch/outlet on the top left there is a brass colored screw. On the bottom left is a silver screw. On the right side top and bottom screws are both black.
> How can I wire this so that the bottom outlet is controlled by the switch above it.
> ...


ok the red is got , the white is neutral, and the ground is green. MAKE sure and break that tab on the right side . 
That will give u constant power to switch only , so the outlet is controlled by the switch....


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## curioushiker (Nov 19, 2009)

Wyteboi, thanks again for the help. You guys made this build sooo much easier.


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## wyteboi (Nov 19, 2009)

CHILLINxWITHxMARLEY said:


> I'm buying a HPS light (high pressure sodium) and im kinda weary/curious of the difference between a say 1000w HPS Grow light sun system 3 and a 1000W sun system budget gro remote ballast 120/240v... there is a great price difference and im curious about the difference, hookup and anything else?
> 
> hers the site with the lights described...
> http://www.expresslightbulbs.com/grow-light-hps-grow-lights-c-132_192.html


i would stick to the budget light. its cheaper and IMO it will last longer then the higher one. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1000W-MH-HPS-Switchable-Ballast-120V-FREE-HPS1000-Bulb_W0QQitemZ270424771838QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item3ef6928cfe

there is a link to the cheapest setup on the net.


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## ScHiZoTyPaL (Nov 19, 2009)

looking to set up a separate meter with a separate bill for grow op.

want to know wut needs to be done (with cost) including inspection before the good ol electric co will come out and install the meter and turn on the power.

here's pics of existing....from my understanding so far:

old needs replacing
before the meter 200 amp service needs to be split into (2) 100 amp and prepared for a two meter device
second box installed

is that all?? been quoted at 2.5k over the phone. i know this can be A LOT cheaper, just need to know wut needs to be done for inspection


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## bmiquet (Nov 19, 2009)

I have updated my situation and diagrammed the layout of my electrical in the attached word doc with corresponding pictures.

My situation right now is my pony panel is completely dead--obviously not a good thing.

In the attached doc you can see what I have done/tested at each part of the diagram.

Any insight is appreciated.


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## bmiquet (Nov 19, 2009)

Other doc attached here.



bmiquet said:


> I have updated my situation and diagrammed the layout of my electrical in the attached word doc with corresponding pictures.
> 
> My situation right now is my pony panel is completely dead--obviously not a good thing.
> 
> ...


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## pabloesqobar (Nov 19, 2009)

Well, let's see how this thread works. I'm tired of waiting for spring so want to do a small one plant grow in my closet. I have a shelf that has about 3 1/2 feet of vertical room, 2 1/2 feet wide and a little over 2 feet deep. I'm going to use about 200 watts of CFL's. I've already purchased (3) of the 68 watters. I'll use one small fan.

The lightbulb outlet that you see is my only source of power. My plan was to just plug an extension cord into it, a timer, then a surge protector. Plug everything into the surge protector. 

You can see that I'm using a 20 amp breaker. I know it's ancient. 

Is this safe? Will it work? Any concerns with this setup? Thanks so much.


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## diablo69 (Nov 19, 2009)

I've used less without any problems in a closet operation like that. Make sure you have fresh air in and stale air out and you should be good to go. Remember that I'm not a licenced electrician so you might want to wait for someone else to respond but for flourescents and two fans on a power bar...


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## pabloesqobar (Nov 19, 2009)

Thanks for the reply diablo69. I guess I'll find a way to close that wall up and go for it then.


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## travish413 (Nov 19, 2009)

Is going to be hard because of a height issue. You could probably try a lst method to keep the plant short a bushy. Good luck!


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## IgrowBIGG (Nov 19, 2009)

Hi. I will be setting up a grow room in a guest house/garage that is quite large. I will be running 12-16 1000 watt lights. They will be hooked up to MLC-4 Master Lighting Controllers in groups of four. Each Controller has 4 standard 240 volt (NEMA 6-15) outlets which the HID ballasts will be plugged into. The Controller will then be plugged into the wall outlet through a 120 volt cable. There is also a built in timer. The controller is rated for 30 amps at 240 volts. There are four outlets in the room one on each wall and 2 light sockets on each. I know this could possibly require an extensive answer so I greatly thank you ahead of time.^^GET^HIGH^^


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## riproor (Nov 19, 2009)

then you need to run some 10/2 romex from your main panel use a double pole 30 amp breaker then run it to your grow room with the appropriate outlet for your controler to plug into.


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## IgrowBIGG (Nov 19, 2009)

OK. Is this something that is very difficult to do? I really have no knowlege of or experience with any type of electrical work. Would an electrician do this for me or would that just be a waste of money/how expensive would tht possibly cost?


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## emptypockets7 (Nov 19, 2009)

Found a 400Watt Mercury Vapor Light Bulb and Electronic Ballast with about a 35,000 lumen output for $40 o.b.o. I'm new to growing and was wondering if this is something I should look into for growing now or in the future. It retails for ~$150 so this would be a steal.

Thanks


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## travish413 (Nov 20, 2009)

IgrowBIGG said:


> OK. Is this something that is very difficult to do? I really have no knowlege of or experience with any type of electrical work. Would an electrician do this for me or would that just be a waste of money/how expensive would tht possibly cost?


 its not hard but if you have no knowlege than you might should have somebody else do it. Youll have to run 4 seperate breakers.... one for each outlet that the controller will be plugged. then you ll need regular 110 receptacle for other things like pumps and what not.


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## 400Whps (Nov 20, 2009)

should i get a seperate timer for my400w hps and my flourecents or is an extension cord into my timer and to both ok?
also i am currently running my florecents without a ground, is there a way i can ground the extension cord?(total of 4 t5 bulbs and a small fan on that cord)


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 20, 2009)

The instructions should state. If no instructions. only rely on what a ohm meter tells ya.



curioushiker said:


> His guys, got another question that I am hoping you can help with.
> I want to wire Two combination switches for water pumps. One switch for each pump. The switches that I have I got from Home depot. They have a switch on the top and an outlet on the bottom.
> Looking at the switch/outlet on the top left there is a brass colored screw. On the bottom left is a silver screw. On the right side top and bottom screws are both black.
> How can I wire this so that the bottom outlet is controlled by the switch above it.
> ...


----------



## BigBudBalls (Nov 20, 2009)

CHILLINxWITHxMARLEY said:


> I'm buying a HPS light (high pressure sodium) and im kinda weary/curious of the difference between a say 1000w HPS Grow light sun system 3 and a 1000W sun system budget gro remote ballast 120/240v... there is a great price difference and im curious about the difference, hookup and anything else?
> 
> hers the site with the lights described...
> http://www.expresslightbulbs.com/grow-light-hps-grow-lights-c-132_192.html



Looking art them. The cheap one has no hood, the expensive one is a single unit (hood+ballast, LOTS of heat in a single spot)

I'd buy the cheap one with a cooltube or sealed air cooled hood. (fans and ducting needed. Pricey, but if you are going 1000W, the cost shouldn't be a consideration; you joined the big boys) 1000W is a lot of heat. Open hoods aren't going to be good unless in a large room with great ventilation.


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 20, 2009)

IgrowBIGG said:


> Hi. I will be setting up a grow room in a guest house/garage that is quite large. I will be running 12-16 1000 watt lights. They will be hooked up to MLC-4 Master Lighting Controllers in groups of four. Each Controller has 4 standard 240 volt (NEMA 6-15) outlets which the HID ballasts will be plugged into. The Controller will then be plugged into the wall outlet through a 120 volt cable. There is also a built in timer. The controller is rated for 30 amps at 240 volts. There are four outlets in the room one on each wall and 2 light sockets on each. I know this could possibly require an extensive answer so I greatly thank you ahead of time.^^GET^HIGH^^


Whats your question? At 12000W you should have had all your ducks in a row long before starting.


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 20, 2009)

400Whps said:


> should i get a seperate timer for my400w hps and my flourecents or is an extension cord into my timer and to both ok?
> also i am currently running my florecents without a ground, is there a way i can ground the extension cord?(total of 4 t5 bulbs and a small fan on that cord)


Make *SURE* the timer for the HPS is rated for at least 600W *inductive* load, not resistive. Inductive is the key word you want (also pertains to the T5's)


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## chiefbootknocker (Nov 21, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> mi, why did it spark when you were working on it? Missed rule #1: turn off the power and *verify* that its off.
> 
> *I have wired up wall switches live. But I'll use the rubber gloves* (the ones for elec work)
> 
> ...


 
pussy...............


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## IAm5toned (Nov 21, 2009)

lol agreed.
ever have to drill out holes for a cable tap off of a live 480v busbar? (not 277/460, im talking 480/600)

that'll make the ole leather donut tighten up a few inches


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## chiefbootknocker (Nov 21, 2009)

yup. 120vac won't kill ya..just a mild zap. Try with big boy voltage.


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 23, 2009)

chiefbootknocker said:


> yup. 120vac won't kill ya..just a mild zap. Try with big boy voltage.


50ma across the heart is enough to kill ya.
been tagged by 480 and 230.
Also work, daily, with 25K of DC at over an amp (it will hold you. Whats black and crispy and hang out the back of a HV cab?  )


----------



## MikeyPeenz (Nov 23, 2009)

Hello! i have a quick question to ask if you dont mind!

I am running 6 cfls, 5 pc fans and one small osclating fan into a grow box, all connected to a power bar then into a timer and into the wall

am i drawing too much power, and if so, will i start a fire from using too much??


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## IgrowBIGG (Nov 23, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Whats your question? At 12000W you should have had all your ducks in a row long before starting.


If i understand what youre saying then yes i do have all my ducks lined up, or whatever you said... i think... lol. But this op is months away from the start date maybe even almost a yr and we are still working out where exactly it will even be done at. I was just curious about the work that will have to be done to set all of this up properly and i have decided that i will just higher the cheapest electrician that i can find to do pretty much all of the wiring and instalation. My experties start from then on . I know that this is not the thread to ask this 2nd question in (so feel free to delete this if it poses as too much of a distraction from the main point) but i dont really wanna start a whole new one for one question like this so if ne1s intersested plez respond or comment. How do you feel about this setup as follows which is a small basic part of what i will be doing: 3x1000 watt lights over a 4x8' grow trey. Hydroponic Sea of green style. Approx 200 plants per trey in 4x4" rockwool cubes (9 plants per sq./ft.) and connoissuer nutes. Gana b some bomb smoke.


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 23, 2009)

Doubt you are running too much power. just watch the extension cord gauge.

How big CFLs? NOT the equivalent light but real watts.

Add up all the real watts of everything divide by 120 and thats your amp draw.



MikeyPeenz said:


> Hello! i have a quick question to ask if you dont mind!
> 
> I am running 6 cfls, 5 pc fans and one small osclating fan into a grow box, all connected to a power bar then into a timer and into the wall
> 
> am i drawing too much power, and if so, will i start a fire from using too much??


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## MikeyPeenz (Nov 23, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Doubt you are running too much power. just watch the extension cord gauge.
> 
> How big CFLs? NOT the equivalent light but real watts.
> 
> Add up all the real watts of everything divide by 120 and thats your amp draw.


Hey bubs! lol each cfl 26 watts, pc fans are in milli amps, biggest is .20

im thinking im ok, i thought i seen on the power bar it was rated for 1800watts?
1.2 amps alone on the cfls


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## curioushiker (Nov 23, 2009)

Can you guys tell me if this is safe. I am making a short extension cord, less than Three feet in length. The cord is 12/2 and the connector size are stamped 14-16 guage wire. 
Now, I had to remove a few strands of wire from each color to (Green, Black and White) make them fit.
Will there be an issue with overheating the connections?


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## faded4life (Nov 23, 2009)

hey brick,

got a quick question for ya: I've heard of using a PC fans for extracting air from a small closet growing area (4 x 4).....how do I wire it up so that the PC fan accepts regular 120V...something like a 12v or 6v adapter (depending on fan)?


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## wyteboi (Nov 24, 2009)

curioushiker said:


> Can you guys tell me if this is safe. I am making a short extension cord, less than Three feet in length. The cord is 12/2 and the connector size are stamped 14-16 guage wire.
> Now, I had to remove a few strands of wire from each color to (Green, Black and White) make them fit.
> Will there be an issue with overheating the connections?


Just make sure those connectors are nice and tight and you should be fine, but i would defiantly recommend not using the connectors at all, or use the right size. i am all for geto work but those connectors might heat up if more then 11 or 12 amps is constantly running through them. 
I have a feeling your not gonna try to run _that_ much power through them plugs, thats why i said make sure its nice and tight......*but* if you ever think you are gonna run the full potential of a 20amp circuit then do not use those connectors.


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## wyteboi (Nov 24, 2009)

faded4life said:


> hey brick,
> 
> got a quick question for ya: I've heard of using a PC fans for extracting air from a small closet growing area (4 x 4).....how do I wire it up so that the PC fan accepts regular 120V...something like a 12v or 6v adapter (depending on fan)?


yes a 12 volt adapter is needed. (or 6v) just depends on the fan. I would use a cheap inline booster fan before i would try and "exhaust" with computer fans. A good cheap one is less then 30 bucks.


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## wyteboi (Nov 24, 2009)

chiefbootknocker said:


> yup. 120vac won't kill ya..just a mild zap. Try with big boy voltage.


you have no idea the meaning of "big boy voltage". 
Like Bubbz stated , it really has nothing to do with 120v..... try 120 covered in sweat ....or ... never mind . You just be careful bigboy.


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## papasamba (Nov 24, 2009)

Say i want to wire in serie 4 lamp socket, i need to split my socket wire in two so i can wire it the next lamp and to the electrical source right ? ( i do that with the blakc and the white wire ) ? sorry for my poor language


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## erkelsgoo420 (Nov 24, 2009)

Can u please walk me through how to run a dedicated line from my breaker to my grow room? I'm not sure I have any more circuts available in my breaker box but I'd imagin I could tie into one other than the ones their on the help spread the strain around yeah? My problem is my breaker box is on the opposite side of the house. :/


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## erkelsgoo420 (Nov 24, 2009)

Note the other side of my house is onlt 20 feet lol so that length shouldn't be any concern as for as amp drop?


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## romano (Nov 24, 2009)

Brick! Can I use a 8' (x2) flo tube ballast on 4' flo tubes(x4)?? I tried it but when I turned it on, one of the 4' slightly sparked and hissed . Dont know if that was just an arc because I had exposed wire wrapped around the flo tube end terminal. Or I had it wired wrong ,I had a straight wire running down each terminal ,hard to describe but basically I wired 4 like I would wire one.<test run .I am a pro handyman and extreme safe . Thats why Im so happy to see a pro electrician in a grow forum!
And what is your opinion on t12 vs. t8 vs. t5 flotubes in grow? THANKS !!!!


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## ScHiZoTyPaL (Nov 24, 2009)

ScHiZoTyPaL said:


> looking to set up a separate meter with a separate bill for grow op.
> 
> want to know wut needs to be done (with cost) including inspection before the good ol electric co will come out and install the meter and turn on the power.
> 
> ...



so far what i'm thinking is i need a 200A meter split into (2) 100A breakers, proper grounding for inspection, discard old.


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## faded4life (Nov 24, 2009)

where could I get a decent, inexpensive inline booster fan (in USA) to use for exhaust?


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## wyteboi (Nov 24, 2009)

faded4life said:


> where could I get a decent, inexpensive inline booster fan (in USA) to use for exhaust?


i like these folks they are always cheapest on grow supplies. http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/duct-booster-fans-c-76_117.html

here is a cheaper one... they are pretty much the same, just look at the "cfm" output to compare...

http://www.comfortgurus.com/product_info.php/products_id/563


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## wyteboi (Nov 24, 2009)

romano said:


> Brick! Can I use a 8' (x2) flo tube ballast on 4' flo tubes(x4)?? I tried it but when I turned it on, one of the 4' slightly sparked and hissed . Dont know if that was just an arc because I had exposed wire wrapped around the flo tube end terminal. Or I had it wired wrong ,I had a straight wire running down each terminal ,hard to describe but basically I wired 4 like I would wire one.<test run .I am a pro handyman and extreme safe . Thats why Im so happy to see a pro electrician in a grow forum!
> And what is your opinion on t12 vs. t8 vs. t5 flotubes in grow? THANKS !!!!


i dont think a 8' ballast will work for your 4 footers. 
T5's are high output and the most energy efficient , thats about the only difference in the 3. (there are plenty of differences , just none i thought were relevant..)
here is a good article :http://www.oikos.com/library/energy_outlet/tubular_fluorescents.html


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## smellzlikeskunkyum (Nov 24, 2009)

first of all thx for the help ahead of time.... searching on this forum is a nightmare.

when i get some $$ going soon, i plan on switching from 4ft flouro tubes to cfl's.

id like to have a setup where i have 4 y adapters, 8 bulbs total. im thinking on using 100W cfl's too. would i need a new source to wire those into? or could i use a normal outlet to plug them into?

a friend of mine suggested putting a new line in to a junction box and going from there so i dont have too much power going thru one receptical, and one extention cord.

also... am i going a lil extreme wanting 8 100w cfl's? im just frustrated and want better yields if im gonna take the risk. i have a 600w hps, but, the eletrical in the house is so damn shitty i think its messing up the bulbs.... ive blown 2 $100 bulbs trying to use it. they didnt last more than a week, and i noticed they were flickering a bit before blowing.
thx ahead of time! i have some more questions... ill save for next time.


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 24, 2009)

Just a FYI:
Actually sweaty/salty skin is best. (if things go south) It will go over th surface of your skin instead of through your body. Path of least resistance; over the skin or through the body, take your pick 



wyteboi said:


> you have no idea the meaning of "big boy voltage".
> Like Bubbz stated , it really has nothing to do with 120v..... try 120 covered in sweat ....or ... never mind . You just be careful bigboy.


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 24, 2009)

The inline boosters, I feel , are less then worthless. They are not for pulling static air, but to increase already moving air.

I've tried them and felt they did next to nothing.

PC fans are even behind them.

Add a binch of either and it will work, but like CFLs vs HID, there is a point when doing it right the first round is the way to go.

Like Fram's old slogan:
Pay me now or pay me later.

And the 1800W is for a resistive load. CFLs, HID, wallwart/computer power supplies are all inductive. Shave 20% off for the inductive loads.


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## riproor (Nov 24, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Just a FYI:
> Actually sweaty/salty skin is best. (if things go south) It will go over th surface of your skin instead of through your body. Path of least resistance; over the skin or through the body, take your pick



in all my years as an electrician, getting lit up whilst sweaty is worse than having dry skin. stings more too. 120 that is


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## emptypockets7 (Nov 25, 2009)

I know some people are going to say that these won't be enough but I'm going to try them and see what happens. They were only $5 each so it won't kill my budget too much. My box is going in a cold closet so the temps should stay pretty low. I'm also running CFL's (either 4 or 6) so that should keep the heat down too.

Here's my question:

How do I rig up these PC fans to work with my 120V outlets? I've heard that I can get a standard 12V DC adapter (such as what you'd use to charge a cell phone or run a modem or etc...), splice the ends, and hook them up to the fan +/- wires. Is this legit or am I missing a step or 2? The other convenient thing is that these fans have speed settings for L-M-H so I can control the CFM a little better and the noise. Here are a few pictures of the fan wiring if it would help you help me (I'm a visual learner).

Thanks for any input/advice.


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## chiefbootknocker (Nov 25, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> 50ma across the heart is enough to kill ya.
> been tagged by 480 and 230.
> Also work, daily, with 25K of DC at over an amp (it will hold you. Whats black and crispy and hang out the back of a HV cab?  )


 
before you even wrote that I knew you were going to write that It is all about current


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## chiefbootknocker (Nov 25, 2009)

I've got an electrical question. I have a panel wired with all sorts of gadgets. I was wanting to fuse this panel for safety. where in the circuit do I place the fuse, and how do choose the right size fuse?


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 26, 2009)

Actually is not *all* about current. Its all 3 items!

A 12V car battery is capable of putting out 600amps. But I can grab both terminals and feel ntohing.

Volts, amps, and resistance.
Its the combo of it all. Your body is the resistance in the mix.



chiefbootknocker said:


> before you even wrote that I knew you were going to write that It is all about current


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 26, 2009)

chiefbootknocker said:


> I've got an electrical question. I have a panel wired with all sorts of gadgets. I was wanting to fuse this panel for safety. where in the circuit do I place the fuse, and how do choose the right size fuse?


Add all the current up, and fuse for 20%-25% above
now you have the fast vs slow blow fuses.

I believe that slow blow fuses are meant for items that have a high in-rush current. (takes a bit extra juice to start it up)

Fuse goes on the hot line before the panel


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## tommeboi209 (Nov 26, 2009)

i am goin to be run 2 600 hps light an 2 400 mh light an 2 wall mount fans an one inline fan need help plz wat to do


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 27, 2009)

Sounds like a 2 room set up. You will need 2 15a circuits. Me? I'd put one 600w and 1 400w on one and the same on the other. so, if for some oddball reason you trip a breaker both rooms will still have light



tommeboi209 said:


> i am goin to be run 2 600 hps light an 2 400 mh light an 2 wall mount fans an one inline fan need help plz wat to do


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## emptypockets7 (Nov 27, 2009)

emptypockets7 said:


> I know some people are going to say that these won't be enough but I'm going to try them and see what happens. They were only $5 each so it won't kill my budget too much. My box is going in a cold closet so the temps should stay pretty low. I'm also running CFL's (either 4 or 6) so that should keep the heat down too.
> 
> Here's my question:
> 
> ...


Anyone? I found a bunch of different AC to DC adapters around the house but there are tons of different outputs. 5.1V, 9V, 12V, etc and different mA's. I found 2 12V 300mA charges so I'm going to try them unless someone directs me otherwise. I'm pretty bad at this electrical stuff.... Kudos to you guys that understand it.


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## faded4life (Nov 27, 2009)

emptypockets7 said:


> Anyone? I found a bunch of different AC to DC adapters around the house but there are tons of different outputs. 5.1V, 9V, 12V, etc and different mA's. I found 2 12V 300mA charges so I'm going to try them unless someone directs me otherwise. I'm pretty bad at this electrical stuff.... Kudos to you guys that understand it.


From what i understand, you should be good as long as the volts of the adapter matches the fan. They consume so little power that it really shouldn't matter.....

is my assessment incorrect? anyone?


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## n00bGrower (Nov 27, 2009)

You want to find an adapter that is exactly 12v. If you use anything less, you'll never get maximum fan speed. Usually any old cell phone charger works, but I've found that router adapters are best because they usually have a higher amperage. Just make sure the combined amps on the fans (if doing multiple fans) add up to a number less than the amps on the charger. For instance, if your charger is only 500 mA (milliamp) and the fan (or combination of fans) is 600 mA it won't work; the fan draws more power than the adapter can supply. It shouldn't be too much of a problem if you use the power supply from an old router... They usually get in the range of 1000 mA (1 amp). If you see any markings on the adapter, just remember this example to decipher amps

1000 millamps = 1 amp

270 milliamps = .27 amp

Also, the only wires you need to concern yourself with are Red and Black... The white will be irrelevant. I've used PC fans like this many times and they can actually provide quite a bit of cheap, quiet air movement... They even can be used for exhaust, as seen here https://www.rollitup.org/cfl-growing/203346-stealth-freezer-grow-male-female.htmlhttps://www.rollitup.org/cfl-growing/203346-stealth-freezer-grow-male-female.html


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## wyteboi (Nov 28, 2009)

n00bGrower said:


> You want to find an adapter that is exactly 12v. If you use anything less, you'll never get maximum fan speed. Usually any old cell phone charger works, but I've found that router adapters are best because they usually have a higher amperage. Just make sure the combined amps on the fans (if doing multiple fans) add up to a number less than the amps on the charger. For instance, if your charger is only 500 mA (milliamp) and the fan (or combination of fans) is 600 mA it won't work; the fan draws more power than the adapter can supply. It shouldn't be too much of a problem if you use the power supply from an old router... They usually get in the range of 1000 mA (1 amp). If you see any markings on the adapter, just remember this example to decipher amps
> 
> 1000 millamps = 1 amp
> 
> ...


 nice post.


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## a dog named chico (Nov 28, 2009)

Q) I am toying with the idea of running power to a tool shed in the back of my property, approx 35ft from the breaker in my garadge, 1) what is the best way to safely run power from my breaker to my shed, can i run install a 30A breaker, and run a low guage condilate underground to the shed into a a box, from there i was thinking two outlets and some floro lights on a switch? does this sound right? 2) how could i install solar panels to feed the grid so to speak.


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## wyteboi (Nov 28, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Actually is not *all* about current. Its all 3 items!
> 
> A 12V car battery is capable of putting out 600amps. But I can grab both terminals and feel ntohing.
> 
> ...


Bubbz are you a master ? (well did u pass the master test in US?) if so my hat is off to you.
anyways , i have one for ya. How in the hell can i run a ballast @ 240 with only 2 120 phases . ? Is it even possible? I have tried a couple different ways but i dont think it is possible to get 240 on a single wire without some kind of transformer ?


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## mrmadcow (Nov 28, 2009)

a dog named chico said:


> Q) I am toying with the idea of running power to a tool shed in the back of my property, approx 35ft from the breaker in my garadge, ....


it depends on how much power you want in the shed,if you just want a light to see,(a 23 watt CFL) a 14/2 romex rated for underground use w/ a 15 amp breaker would be fine.if you want to run 3 600 HPS, fans and a heater,you might want something ike 10/3 romex on a double 20 amp breaker & wire the lights up as 220 volt.


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## wyteboi (Nov 28, 2009)

a dog named chico said:


> Q) I am toying with the idea of running power to a tool shed in the back of my property, approx 35ft from the breaker in my garadge, 1) what is the best way to safely run power from my breaker to my shed, can i run install a 30A breaker, and run a low guage condilate underground to the shed into a a box, from there i was thinking two outlets and some floro lights on a switch? does this sound right? 2) how could i install solar panels to feed the grid so to speak.


#1 yes you have the right idea. They make underground romex you can use without any pipe. Or you can use regular romex inside of piping to your shed. i think the underground wire is called UB wire. ?
If you have the room in your panel for a 30amp double pole breaker, then you are ready. 
Are you wanting 2 , 15 amp circuits out there? 
Do you want access to 220 out there? 
Also do you want the light switch in the shed or the garage?


Q #2 I would also like the answer to that one.......


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## mrmadcow (Nov 28, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> ...... How in the hell can i run a ballast @ 240 with only 2 120 phases . ? Is it even possible? I have tried a couple different ways but i dont think it is possible to get 240 on a single wire without some kind of transformer ?


1 leg of the 115 goes to the 220 tap on the ballast,the other leg goes to the common terminal. you dont use a common wire but it should be grounded


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## wyteboi (Nov 28, 2009)

mrmadcow said:


> it depends on how much power you want in the shed,if you just want a light to see,(a 23 watt CFL) a 14/2 romex rated for underground use w/ a 15 amp breaker would be fine.if you want to run 3 600 HPS, fans and a heater,you might want something ike 10/3 romex on a double 20 amp breaker & wire the lights up as 220 volt.


i think he meant to say 30 amp breaker.


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## wyteboi (Nov 28, 2009)

mrmadcow said:


> 1 leg of the 115 goes to the 220 tap on the ballast,the other leg goes to the common terminal. you dont use a common wire but it should be grounded


the common terminal? 
I use the common for a neutral/ground. Where will i ground it ?, also where will the lamp get its ground?
.......may be on to somthin here....


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## mrmadcow (Nov 28, 2009)

ground it to the chassis


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## a dog named chico (Nov 28, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> #1 yes you have the right idea. They make underground romex you can use without any pipe. Or you can use regular romex inside of piping to your shed. i think the underground wire is called UB wire. ?
> If you have the room in your panel for a 30amp double pole breaker, then you are ready.
> Are you wanting 2 , 15 amp circuits out there?
> Do you want access to 220 out there?
> ...


a 30A Seemed like a good round number, i will not have a need for 220v, i THINK i have a spare unused double 15A (30A) so i may just use that, i want the switch in the shed and the floros are just for light (my she is very dark inside). I have a large garden every year and am thinking about cloning veggies and trees but do not want to track the shit into my house, i do want it stealth though incase i do decide to grow the green, this would strictly be a summer thing. 
I was thinking i 400w HPS/MH fixture with T5 to suppliment.
I was going to install a drop ceiling and install some bathroom fans ($13 at lowes) instead of messing with computer fans and i was going to vent the air into the shed, the grow room will be sealed and draw air from the outside via duct work and 6" duct fans.

***New Question***
Could someone please elaberate on a SAFE way to make a remote ballest, my current 150W HPS has all the guts located in a fixture that ia large, unsealed, and i have an old PC power supply w/ a 120v fan built in, that i gutted i did a mock up and can fit the guts in it no problem, my question is is it safe? do i need to coat the bare steal case in rubber or somthin?

GREAT THREAD, Saftey first....then team work.


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## mrmadcow (Nov 28, 2009)

a 30 amp circiut is not to code for lighting or outlets.a double 15 amp will not give you 1 30 amp circiut, it will give you 2 15 amp circiuts. if its the width of 2 normal breakers,it will give you only 2 15 amps circiuts but if its double the width of a normal breaker,it will give you a 15 amp 220 circiut.
to run a single 30 amp circiut safely, you will need 10 gauge romex-never run romex in a pipe or PVC for more than a few feet,heat will build up.code says less than 5 feet (I believe)used as a sleeve to protect is OK.
if you already have a double 15 amp breaker,I would run 12/3 to the shed and set up 2 15 amp circiuts sharing the common white wire, it wont be to code but unless you are drawing full load on both breakers for long, it will be safe.if you plan on going any bigger,run a PVC pipe w/ THHN wire inside so you can add more wire/circiuts later

the DIY section has a thread on remote ballasts here
https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/8499-convert-common-home-security-light.html


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## medi007 (Nov 28, 2009)

Hello, is it safe to lower an extension chord through a furnace vent to the basement? I would connect it to a power surge and power 600w, fans, and blower.


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## a dog named chico (Nov 28, 2009)

^^nothing about that sounds right, just my 2 cents, you dont have any power already going to the basement? 
OHH yea thanks for the DIY, that is the exact light i have this should be simple


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 28, 2009)

medi007 said:


> Hello, is it safe to lower an extension chord through a furnace vent to the basement? I would connect it to a power surge and power 600w, fans, and blower.


Plenum cable is rated for such things. Its rating it based on the fumes it gives off when burned.


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 28, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> Bubbz are you a master ? (well did u pass the master test in US?) if so my hat is off to you.
> anyways , i have one for ya. How in the hell can i run a ballast @ 240 with only 2 120 phases . ? Is it even possible? I have tried a couple different ways but i dont think it is possible to get 240 on a single wire without some kind of transformer ?


I'm not an electrician. More engineering side of things.
But 2 phases of 120 that are 180 degrees out of phase is 240. (relative to each other but will still be 120 relative to ground)
Just measure from hot #1 to hot #2 and it should be 240.
If its 0 Then you are measuring 2 120 lines from the same phase (as long as each measures 120 to ground)

US 220 household is called single phase. But this is an incorrect nomenclature. The power is 2 phase, the the device is seeing and using the power as single phase. (hence the dumbed down name of single phase. Makes it simpler for the electrician reading a nameplate of a device)


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## emptypockets7 (Nov 28, 2009)

faded4life said:


> From what i understand, you should be good as long as the volts of the adapter matches the fan. They consume so little power that it really shouldn't matter.....
> 
> is my assessment incorrect? anyone?





n00bGrower said:


> You want to find an adapter that is exactly 12v. If you use anything less, you'll never get maximum fan speed. Usually any old cell phone charger works, but I've found that router adapters are best because they usually have a higher amperage. Just make sure the combined amps on the fans (if doing multiple fans) add up to a number less than the amps on the charger. For instance, if your charger is only 500 mA (milliamp) and the fan (or combination of fans) is 600 mA it won't work; the fan draws more power than the adapter can supply. It shouldn't be too much of a problem if you use the power supply from an old router... They usually get in the range of 1000 mA (1 amp). If you see any markings on the adapter, just remember this example to decipher amps
> 
> 1000 millamps = 1 amp
> 
> ...


Thanks for the help guys. I found a few adapters and hooked one to each fan. I might check them out to see if I can just run one adapter for both fans. These fans are SUPER quiet. I have them in my closet and with the door shut they're silent and with it open, they're silenced by music in the room or cars going by on the highway. Now I just need to fix my light leaks. The best part is they each have L-M-H settings so I can control the speed/noise.


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## romano (Nov 30, 2009)

If a ballast says it takes a m59 or h33 < not sure about the 33 ... but doesnt this mean it can take either a metal halide AND a hps . It takes hps now for sure, and It also is labeled to take M59 but I dont see a switch on the ballast to go from one to the other???THanks


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## sir rance alot (Dec 1, 2009)

AMPERAGE VERSUS WATTAGE.
Ohm,s law still pertains to ballast operated lighting? I have three 150w HPS lights which total 450w. HOWEVER, the ballast for each light draws 3.2 amps of current. If ohm,s law is true, and it ALWAYS is, my total current draw of 9.6 amps gets multiplied by the voltage which is 120. Total wattage being billed by my electric company is a staggering 1152 watts for just three little 150w HPS lights. After researching too little too late, AS ALL NEWBIES DO!, I found that a 400w HPS ballast only draws around 4 amps or around 450 to 480 watts. LESSON? I could have two 400w HPS systems, four 5000 kelvin 100w cfl's (23w actual), and a 100cfm exhaust fan for the same electricity cost as three tiny 150w hps bulbs. I think Im gonna be sick.. Money only sucks when its wasted.


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## Wohjew (Dec 1, 2009)

hi i got an elecrical question about my dryer plug which is ona fuse ( 2 of them @40amp ea) . the dryers plug has 2 flat prongs and 1 angled prong and 1 ground prong. Q:1 why is the prong angled Q:2 can i replace outlet with a range outlet(3 flat prongs and ground). id like to convert soon to 220/240v. and use a switch board for lighting , thanks if you can help


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## wyteboi (Dec 2, 2009)

sir rance alot said:


> I have three 150w HPS lights which total 450w. HOWEVER, the ballast for each light draws 3.2 amps of current.


do you have an amp probe/tester ? 3.2 is too high for a 150 watt ballast....... Are you sure that they are not 400w ballast?


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## wyteboi (Dec 2, 2009)

Wohjew said:


> hi i got an elecrical question about my dryer plug which is ona fuse ( 2 of them @40amp ea) . the dryers plug has 2 flat prongs and 1 angled prong and 1 ground prong. Q:1 why is the prong angled Q:2 can i replace outlet with a range outlet(3 flat prongs and ground). id like to convert soon to 220/240v. and use a switch board for lighting , thanks if you can help


You need to know what gauge wire is going to that dryer plug first. If is only 10g wire then you will have to get a 30amp plug (dryer or range it dont matter , although most ranges use bigger then 10g wire)
the "style" of plug does not matter either. 
(you should be able to get a cord to plug right in to the existing plug, that would be best)


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## wyteboi (Dec 2, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Just measure from hot #1 to hot #2 and it should be 240.


yea , i understand that, and it is 240, but how do i get 240 to that ballast? since i can not get 240 on one phase then do i put 120 on the 240 leg of ballast and the other 120 on the "common" leg? (the common is currently my neutral and the 120 goes to the 120 leg of ballast)
i already tried running 120 to the 120 leg and 120 to the 240 leg and the neutral to the common leg but that did not work....


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## growwwww (Dec 2, 2009)

Mr electrician, could you please glance at my thread i asked about wiring the light fittings im in UK but i just nearly killed myself doing something...something ufcked up somewhere im so sure its very simple!


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## Wohjew (Dec 2, 2009)

thanks for the reply, i will just keep the same plug, why is there 2 40 amp fuses in there , can i get 80 amps 220v from there ? lol i think not . so im assuming off that dryer outlet i can get 30amps 220 v MAX! plz correct me if im wrong , thankls


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## smellzlikeskunkyum (Dec 2, 2009)

i see alot of chit chat and no help what happened to answering questions??? this is under grow room design, not general chit chat.

i have a question about a setup using cfl's and weather or not i can use them how i want to, with out having to add a line.
a quick short question would be... can you have 8 100W replacement CFL's, all wired together, safely in one receptical. a friend of mine a with only a mild electrical background thinks i need to have a new line coming in and install a junction box and go from there. if thats what i have to do, im screwed. the house's electrical is pretty shitty and it would be way too much hassle to install a new line. im hoping i can just go ghetto and use an exisiting receptical otherwise this set up is useless.... i have a 600w hps i cant use, so if nothing else ill figure out how to use that i geuss.... i dont know what to do.

thx ahead of time.... this is the second time ive asked so i REALLY appriciate ANY help at all.


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## curioushiker (Dec 2, 2009)

smellzlikeskunkyum said:


> i see alot of chit chat and no help what happened to answering questions??? this is under grow room design, not general chit chat.
> 
> i have a question about a setup using cfl's and weather or not i can use them how i want to, with out having to add a line.
> a quick short question would be... can you have 8 100W replacement CFL's, all wired together, safely in one receptical. a friend of mine a with only a mild electrical background thinks i need to have a new line coming in and install a junction box and go from there. if thats what i have to do, im screwed. the house's electrical is pretty shitty and it would be way too much hassle to install a new line. im hoping i can just go ghetto and use an exisiting receptical otherwise this set up is useless.... i have a 600w hps i cant use, so if nothing else ill figure out how to use that i geuss.... i dont know what to do.
> ...


Really? Cause I have seen mulitple replies to questions from mainly Three or Four members. It takes mucho mucho time to respond to the questions here. If your question was skipped maybe try to copy and paste it again. Things can get lost in a hurry here.


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## mrmadcow (Dec 2, 2009)

smellzlikeskunkyum said:


> ......a quick short question would be... can you have 8 100W replacement CFL's, all wired together, safely in one receptical. a friend of mine a with only a mild electrical background thinks i need to have a new line coming in and install a junction box and go from there.........


I assume you mean bulbs that are equivalent to a 100 watt incandesent light but only draw about 25 watts.if so,no problem -8 will draw less than 2 amps so its like plugging a small TV into the outlet.
if you are talking about 8 bulbs drawing 100 watts each,it might be a problem depending on what else is on the breaker that your outlet is attached to. you will be drawing about 7 amps.the outlet is most likely rated for 15 amps but several others will be on the same breaker so if you plug a vacum (or toaster)into another outlet on the same breaker,you will overload it.


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## curioushiker (Dec 2, 2009)

smellzlikeskunkyum said:


> i see alot of chit chat and no help what happened to answering questions??? this is under grow room design, not general chit chat.
> 
> i have a question about a setup using cfl's and weather or not i can use them how i want to, with out having to add a line.
> a quick short question would be... can you have 8 100W replacement CFL's, all wired together, safely in one receptical. a friend of mine a with only a mild electrical background thinks i need to have a new line coming in and install a junction box and go from there. if thats what i have to do, im screwed. the house's electrical is pretty shitty and it would be way too much hassle to install a new line. im hoping i can just go ghetto and use an exisiting receptical otherwise this set up is useless.... i have a 600w hps i cant use, so if nothing else ill figure out how to use that i geuss.... i dont know what to do.
> ...


Sorry dude. I am such an asshole. I only read the first line of your post. 
Again, sorry for jumping the gun.


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## mrmadcow (Dec 3, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> ...... but how do i get 240 to that ballast?.....


give me some time to dig up an old ballast to try. last time I told you to hook 1 leg to the 220 tap & the other to the common but a buddy told me that is wrong.he says 1 leg to the 110,1 to the 220 & nothing to the common but neutral goes to the lamp common. Im not sure which is right so I will dig up an old ballast & experiment. might take me to the weekend to find time to dig out an old ballast & try it...mc


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## lazysuperman (Dec 3, 2009)

I just found out that the room I am growing in is wired to 2 20amp brkers and in the room is 1 plug, 1 switch, now my question is can i split off of the plug ,and how many plugs can i use.2nd question is that im useing 3 40watt flors for my veg room.im installing a bath fan for my exhuast which is 0.9amps ,small house fan for air movement and also two small pumps that will soon be on timers.not to mention a 400 hps that will be in my flowering area.Now keep in mind i cant change any wiring going into the room cause it comes from underground out side and i cant trace it .I really need someones help and I saw you along the growing highway.lol.oh and does a surge protector protect going both ways in and out or only the shit thats pluged in it.


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## 400Whps (Dec 4, 2009)

lazysuperman said:


> I just found out that the room I am growing in is wired to 2 20amp brkers and in the room is 1 plug, 1 switch, now my question is can i split off of the plug ,and how many plugs can i use.2nd question is that im useing 3 40watt flors for my veg room.im installing a bath fan for my exhuast which is 0.9amps ,small house fan for air movement and also two small pumps that will soon be on timers.not to mention a 400 hps that will be in my flowering area.Now keep in mind i cant change any wiring going into the room cause it comes from underground out side and i cant trace it .I really need someones help and I saw you along the growing highway.lol.oh and does a surge protector protect going both ways in and out or only the shit thats pluged in it.


curious aswell,


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## wyteboi (Dec 4, 2009)

mrmadcow said:


> give me some time to dig up an old ballast to try. last time I told you to hook 1 leg to the 220 tap & the other to the common but a buddy told me that is wrong.he says 1 leg to the 110,1 to the 220 & nothing to the common but neutral goes to the lamp common. Im not sure which is right so I will dig up an old ballast & experiment. might take me to the weekend to find time to dig out an old ballast & try it...mc


thanks alot for your help dcow 
i also have a couple good 400's somewhere , but no bulbs to try with and i dont really wanna try with my "setup".

I have already decided the bill will still be the same either way ,(always thought less amps = less bill ) so i probably wont run it 220 but i have wanted to know the answer to this question for 2 years now, so its kinda a "mission" now 

funny cause my buddy said your way (1 leg to common) will _probably_ work.
hmmm.. if i separate my common on ballast from common on lamp and then run 1 leg to 120 or 240 leg and other to common leg on ballast only , it might work.
i already tried 1 leg to 120 and other to 240 but i also had the neutral hooked up to all commons ? (lamp and ballast commons are tied together from factory)

Anyways i also learned that the only benefit from running 220 , would be that you can run double the lights without upgrading the service.


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## sparty (Dec 4, 2009)

how much would i 
save in $ on my bill if i switched my 4 1000s over to 240 instead of 120. thanx


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## mrmadcow (Dec 4, 2009)

mrmadcow said:


> give me some time to dig up an old ballast to try...mc





wyteboi said:


> ........so i probably wont run it 220 but i have wanted to know the answer to this question for 2 years now, so its kinda a "mission" now


sorry, _I just checked &both spares are 115 volt only.this has become a mission for me as well.PM me if you find the answer-I will do same_



wyteboi said:


> funny cause my buddy said your way (1 leg to common) will _probably_ work.
> hmmm.. if i separate my common on ballast from common on lamp and then run 1 leg to 120 or 240 leg and other to common leg on ballast only , it might work.


I would be leary of conecting to the 110 & common w/ 2 legs of 110. either feed neutral to the lamp common only & 1 leg to the ballast 220 and the 2nd leg to either the 110 terminal or the ballast common terminal- not 1 leg to 110 and the other to common.
wow,hope that makes sense,had to read it 2x to make sure I didnt confuse myself & I wrote it!


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## mrmadcow (Dec 4, 2009)

lazysuperman said:


> ........ now my question is can i split off of the plug ,and how many plugs can i use.2nd question is that im useing 3 40watt flors for my veg room.im installing a bath fan for my exhuast which is 0.9amps ,small house fan for air movement and also two small pumps that will soon be on timers.not to mention a 400 hps that will be in my flowering area...... and does a surge protector protect going both ways in and out or only the shit thats pluged in it.


how many plugs is a loaded question,safely or by code? code allows either 6-8 (i think)outlets on a breaker,remember that breaker will feed more than just your 1 room. the number of outlets on a single breaker isn't as important as the load used on them at the same time.you could safely put 30 outlets on 1 breaker if you were going to only use them to power 1 CFL from each outlet or run a power tool from any 1 outlet at a time w/ nothing on any of the others.add up your draw from each device and dont put more than 17 amps on either breaker. best to split the load as evenly as possible & dont forget to add anything else on either circiut inc the plug in the room above or below that the wife uses to plug in the vacum.
.
as for the surge protector,assuming you mean will it protect your house if you plug an extension cord into a surge protector & the cord gets hit by lightning,yes it will help protect the surge from coming into your house.
surge protectors use a thing called MOVs that "eat" the surge however,while a large surge like lightning will Kill the protector and stop the current, a few hundred small surges will kill the MOVs and the protector will still carry current so dont trust an old surge protector,replace them every yr or 3.


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## mrmadcow (Dec 4, 2009)

Sparty, your answer is here


wyteboi said:


> I have already decided the bill will still be the same either way ,(always thought less amps = less bill ) ...Anyways i also learned that the only benefit from running 220 , would be that you can run double the lights without upgrading the service.


you are billed for watts used & it doesnt matter if you draw 10 amps on 1 110 breakers or 5 amps on each leg of a 220 circiut.


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## Chaka (Dec 4, 2009)

Aloha, I have a question in regards to plugging in my new 250w light. I have a surge protector(Transient Voltage Surge Suppressor) that I was hoping to plug this light into, I'm just not sure if it can properly handle the load. I will list the specs of my surge and hopefully someone with knowledge can explain if it's adequate enough.

Suppressed Voltage Rating: UL 1449 330v

Max Load: 15A 125VAC 60HZ 1875W

This might seem like a dumb question, but I need to assure myself that I don't start a fire or kill my new light.I appreciate any help or guidance on this. Thank you.


Correction: I first want to plug the light into a timer that will be plugged into the surge. Does the timer need to have certain specs as well to carry the load of the light?


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## mrmadcow (Dec 5, 2009)

surge suppressor will be fine & yes your timer has to be able to handle the load(watts) you are running through it but I have never seen a timer that wont handle a 250 watt light


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## sir rance alot (Dec 5, 2009)

Everyone write this formula down. Amps x Volts = Watts. 

Add the amps of everything you have plugged in, multiply that total by the voltage you are plugged in to and that is how many watts you are getting billed for. Example: If you have a light (or fan, or television) that draws 2 amps, and you have it plugged into a regular wall recepticle, you multiply 2 (amps) x 120 volts (recepticle) = 240 watts. The reverse is also true. Example: Add up all the wattage of every light, fan, etc. and divide that by the voltage you are plugged into. So, if you use 120 volts divide watts by 120. If you use 240, divide watts by 240. This tells you amps. Also, remember the electric company bills you by watts used, not amps. A 120 watt light will draw 1 amp at 120 volts, a 120 watt light will draw 0.5 amps at 240 volts. The amps are cut in half but the wattage stays the same. You get billed for 120 watts no matter what.


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## sir rance alot (Dec 5, 2009)

And by the electric dude, you were right about the 150 watt ballasts. They are only pulling about 163 watts each. I was going by the label on the ballast which says 3.2 amps. I assume that is the max draw at start up and not the constant draw while running? Anyways, thanks for the input. Rep for that.


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## JDK (Dec 6, 2009)

Greetings, 
Upon inspection of a sub panel I installed in my grow room, I've discovered that the panel along the bus bar has melted, along with the insulation on the white load wire. Very unsettling. I've attached picks, and I'd like to know if this happened is because I underestimated the amp rating required for my panel, or if something else could have caused this problem. 

Thanks for any assistance. 
JDK


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## wyteboi (Dec 6, 2009)

JDK said:


> Greetings,
> Upon inspection of a sub panel I installed in my grow room, I've discovered that the panel along the bus bar has melted, along with the insulation on the white load wire. Very unsettling. I've attached picks, and I'd like to know if this happened is because I underestimated the amp rating required for my panel, or if something else could have caused this problem.
> 
> Thanks for any assistance.
> JDK


we/you need to know how many amps you were pulling through that panel? add up the watts from each device (fans, lights,ect...) you had on that panel and let us know. Also is that a 100 amp sub? what size breaker is the sub on, in the main panel?
It does not _look_ like the problem is in the panel at all , so you are probably right saying u might have underestimated the "load"...........


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## wyteboi (Dec 6, 2009)

bump .... (had to because my post #.....sorry)


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## growwwww (Dec 6, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> bump .... (had to because my post #.....sorry)


Hahaha whoah, someones superstitious...


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## dangledo (Dec 6, 2009)

This question may have already have been asked, and probably has. Anyway, with a wire coming from the breaker box that supply light to only 2 bulbs, that is not grounded, can you use a grounded outlet instead of rewiring to the breaker box? Is it considered safe in the means of an actual grounded wire? Is that what is normally done to supply a ground for older homes? Thanks alot man. I am glad that I found your thread!! rep


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## wyteboi (Dec 6, 2009)

dangledo said:


> This question may have already have been asked, and probably has. Anyway, with a wire coming from the breaker box that supply light to only 2 bulbs, that is not grounded, can you use a grounded outlet instead of rewiring to the breaker box? Is it considered safe in the means of an actual grounded wire? Is that what is normally done to supply a ground for older homes? Thanks alot man. I am glad that I found your thread!! rep


as long as the box is grounded (with a wire, not just a metal box) then yes that is fine for a ground. 
i think that answered your Q ?


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## dangledo (Dec 6, 2009)

Thank you kind sir. You are talkin about the outlet box right? This is in my basement, so the wire are through the ceiling. The main wire(not grounded) from the breaker box went to a light, then the other wire coming from said light went to another light. The wire in between to lights is grounded (the relay). So I placed two grounded outlets, with safety switches in place of both lights. Only using farthest outlet for supply, with a safety power strip. So three power trips to my lights and fans, is this safe? once agian thanx


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## wyteboi (Dec 6, 2009)

dangledo said:


> Thank you kind sir. You are talkin about the outlet box right? This is in my basement, so the wire are through the ceiling. The main wire(not grounded) from the breaker box went to a light, then the other wire coming from said light went to another light. The wire in between to lights is grounded (the relay). So I placed two grounded outlets, with safety switches in place of both lights. Only using farthest outlet for supply, with a safety power strip. So three power trips to my lights and fans, is this safe? once agian thanx


yes i was talking about the outlet box....

i am sorry but i am totally confused on what your setup is and how it is run. 
alot of people dont have a "ground" at all and it works fine but is not as safe as one with a ground. I would recommend you run a ground wire *from *the breaker box to whatever you want to be grounded.


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## dangledo (Dec 6, 2009)

yea, I confused myself too. lol
You basically answered my question.
I just wanted a safety outlet between my ballast and breaker box. So i used a grounded outlet (as a junction box, with a safety test button) on a non grounded wire. Then ran a grounded wire from that last outlet, to another grounded outlet. using the second grounded outlet 

So I am going to have my buddy rewire it for me. Thanks alot.!!


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## sherriberry (Dec 6, 2009)

does a 1000 w MH light have to be grounded?

Will it hurt the light, or is it only unsafe to have it ungrounded with water around?

THe only thing i can ground it to in the room is a vent that screws into the wall.

THe house is older, from the 70s, would the vent work as a ground?

Thanks


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## sherriberry (Dec 7, 2009)

anyone?????


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## KolorBlind (Dec 7, 2009)

Hi everyone

Ive been around for a while now and dabbled in some entry level electrical work, mainly because I have always rented. Well just recently I bought my first house and I plan on setting up one of the bedroom closets to grow in.

I will be running a single 250w HPS for flowering, and three 42w 6500k CFLs for my moms & clones. There is a pull chain light in this closet and that is it. A friend and I have marked the exact location in my attic that is directly above the closet. We can see the junction box used for the pullchain light and a white cord running to it.

My friend has wired up most of his own house that he is currently remodeling, but the main question I have is:

*Can I run a 250w HPS, 3 42w CFLs, a 135CFM Inline Fan, and 1 or 2 small room fans off of 1 receptacle safely? And should I use a receptacle with a reset switch?*

I would love to only put one receptacle in the ceiling, then run a power strip from one outlet to the mom/clone side, and a strip from the other outlet to the flower side.

With the relatively low wattage used, should everything be copasetic or am I going to have to find a real electrician to help me out?

Thanks a ton in advance, I love what you folks are doing here, gives us "shade-tree" electricians some piece of mind for sure!

Peace
KB


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## wyteboi (Dec 8, 2009)

sherriberry said:


> does a 1000 w MH light have to be grounded?
> 
> Will it hurt the light, or is it only unsafe to have it ungrounded with water around?
> 
> ...


it does not _need_ to be grounded to work, but it is safer to be grounded. (no its not just for water) can't you just ground the ballast with the wire comin from the panel/outlet ?


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## wyteboi (Dec 8, 2009)

KolorBlind said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> Ive been around for a while now and dabbled in some entry level electrical work, mainly because I have always rented. Well just recently I bought my first house and I plan on setting up one of the bedroom closets to grow in.
> 
> ...


you might wanna check the watts on all those devices just to double check. ALL watts / 120 = amps (as long as your running everything 120v) 
but by my calculations you will not be using no more then 11 amps , so you will be fine with that one single outlet *IF* there is nothing else on the same circuit as the outlet. so u need to turn off* that *breaker and run around and check everything to see what excactly is on that breaker besides that one outlet and go from there......
im am not the best with words but i know my shit, so if i confused u then , no big deal just post back and tell me!


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## KolorBlind (Dec 8, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> you might wanna check the watts on all those devices just to double check. ALL watts / 120 = amps (as long as your running everything 120v)
> but by my calculations you will not be using no more then 11 amps , so you will be fine with that one single outlet *IF* there is nothing else on the same circuit as the outlet. so u need to turn off* that *breaker and run around and check everything to see what excactly is on that breaker besides that one outlet and go from there......
> im am not the best with words but i know my shit, so if i confused u then , no big deal just post back and tell me!


Thanks Wyteboi, that made perfect sense.

I looked up the specs for my inline fan and it said "Max Watts = 30" Does that mean exactly what it says or is that some crazy electrician talk that actually means "this number divided by another number times x = real wattage" or something crazy? Haha

If not, then my 250w HPS + 3 42w CFLs + 30w Fan = 406 watts. 406/120 = 3.833 Amps. I will also have a small fan or 2 blowing on the plants but I wouldnt imagine they would use too many watts. 3.833 just seems extremely low, but then again this is a pretty small scale grow compared to others.

Thanks again for your time, and if anything about my math seems wrong to you please let me know.

Thanks
KB


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## mlxmitch (Dec 8, 2009)

Question about adding a capacitor in an HPS ballast setup. Seen a couple diagrams drawn up putting a motor run capacitor in parallel with the common and 120v hot right off the power source plug. Is this proper and safe? 

For instance, assuming the correctly sized MF capacitor rated at 330vAC is in the circuit, what happens if the power is on to the ballast and there is no bulb in the socket? Will this screw the capacitor up? Or if the bulb burns out, will there be a problem if power is still being supplied? Just concerned about fire potential or hot oil exploding everywhere should something unexpected happen to the bulb or capacitor itself.

Are these diagrams correct and safe (assuming right components are used)?


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## wyteboi (Dec 9, 2009)

KolorBlind said:


> If not, then my 250w HPS + 3 42w CFLs + 30w Fan = 406 watts. 406/120 = 3.833 Amps.
> Thanks
> KB


that is correct!
30watts dont really seem right for a fan, but i may be wrong. (its no more then a couple hundred watts, so your good)
we are trying to keep it under 11 or 12 amps, (i am assumeing you have regular 15 breakers? and we dont want to use more then 75% of that.)


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## godwar (Dec 9, 2009)

Hello this is my first post and hopefully it makes sence. The upstairs of my house was a complete add on and my breaker panle says the whole up stairs is ran off a 60 amp 2pole switch. Does that mean the total is 60 amps or 120 amps? And isn't 60 amps equal to 14400 watts? I ask cause I am building the room in my attic and was either going to have an electrician wire two outlets straight from my breaker or I was just going to splice from a junction box located in the attic.


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## karmabud (Dec 9, 2009)

can i take a mogul base that is ment to be plugged into a ballast and cut the plug off and put a standard 3 prong plug so that i can plug into the wall ? i ask because i bought a mogul base with cord and i thought it would have a normal plug but it didnt . im trying to use it for a mogul cfl bulb 125 watt . it will cost me to return this so id like to use it .


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## wyteboi (Dec 10, 2009)

karmabud said:


> can i take a mogul base that is ment to be plugged into a ballast and cut the plug off and put a standard 3 prong plug so that i can plug into the wall ? i ask because i bought a mogul base with cord and i thought it would have a normal plug but it didnt . im trying to use it for a mogul cfl bulb 125 watt . it will cost me to return this so id like to use it .


Can you tell me what you are cutting off? Is the plug not standard? , i am pretty sure your answer is yes , but i would like u to re-word your question if you would.


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## wyteboi (Dec 10, 2009)

godwar said:


> Hello this is my first post and hopefully it makes sence. The upstairs of my house was a complete add on and my breaker panle says the whole up stairs is ran off a 60 amp 2pole switch. Does that mean the total is 60 amps or 120 amps? And isn't 60 amps equal to 14400 watts? I ask cause I am building the room in my attic and was either going to have an electrician wire two outlets straight from my breaker or I was just going to splice from a junction box located in the attic.


first off, 60 amp 2 pole just means, its a breaker designed for 240v. 120 on each leg of the breaker , with no more then 60 amps running through each side. So yes , you _could _get 120 amps outta there, but that breaker was not designed for 2 separate "loads". It is designed for one load at 220v with a max of 60 amps running through it. also that breaker is made to "break" both sides when something goes wrong, so there is another reason why u wouldnt want to run several 110's off that breaker.

7000 watts would be MAXing the 60 amps out at 120v. If you were to use 240v, then you could get closer to 14,000.
Now you could run a sub panel off the 60 amp breaker, or you can just run a couple of wires to the panel. (14guage wire =15 amps and 12g wire =20 amps)


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## godwar (Dec 10, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> first off, 60 amp 2 pole just means, its a breaker designed for 240v. 120 on each leg of the breaker , with no more then 60 amps running through each side. So yes , you _could _get 120 amps outta there, but that breaker was not designed for 2 separate "loads". It is designed for one load at 220v with a max of 60 amps running through it. also that breaker is made to "break" both sides when something goes wrong, so there is another reason why u wouldnt want to run several 110's off that breaker.
> 
> 7000 watts would be MAXing the 60 amps out at 120v. If you were to use 240v, then you could get closer to 14,000.
> Now you could run a sub panel off the 60 amp breaker, or you can just run a couple of wires to the panel. (14guage wire =15 amps and 12g wire =20 amps)


Well I just really wasn't sure of my options and don't think I completly understand electricity. there's alot of power already being ran in the upstairs (3 beds and a bath up there). My buddy help with the floor and said something about that junction box but I dont think he understands either. So hey thanks for everything I think I'll get an electrician up there.


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## karmabud (Dec 10, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> Can you tell me what you are cutting off? Is the plug not standard? , i am pretty sure your answer is yes , but i would like u to re-word your question if you would.


its not a standard plug its ment to plug into a hydrofarm ballast ( of any wattage they make apparently ) im going to try and post a pic of it . just click the thumbnail and it should get big enough to see the cord end


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## wyteboi (Dec 10, 2009)

karmabud said:


> its not a standard plug its ment to plug into a hydrofarm ballast ( of any wattage they make apparently ) im going to try and post a pic of it . just click the thumbnail and it should get big enough to see the cord end


I am not really knowledgeable on cfl's so if you would send a link to the bulb or one like it then i could tell you if it will work.
I am pretty sure it will work, but not positive.


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## proheto8008 (Dec 10, 2009)

I have a question about how to effectively ventillate 3 seperate grow chambers using a central "lung" room.

i want to use 3 individual exhaust fans for intake on each room, i also want to use 1 max fan as intake pushing air into all three rooms. I want to zone the rooms off by using a motorized damper on the intake ducting of all three rooms.

each room will have a temperature controller. i just cant figure out how to set up the dampers and the thermostats so that i can controll the zones effectively.

im sure there is a semi simple DIY setup that could help me do this.

*the gold boxes are temperature controllers. I was going to use them to demonstrate wiring, however i realized after i drew them that that was the reason that i made this post.*

basically this is what i need to happen automatically. When any 1 of the 3 chambers gets to hot or too humid i need for this to happen
1. temperature conroller turns on exhaust fan
2. somehow it activates the damper for only the room that has requested the cool air.
3. also activates the central fan









I attatched som msPaint visial aid, lol


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## proheto8008 (Dec 10, 2009)

so i figured it out i think. It was a fuckin headach but i knew some relay logic was the way to go.

the boxes with the "X"'s on them are the electromagnet side of a relay.(there are 3 of them)

the contacts in front of the boxes are the normally open and normally closed contacts.

*If you dont understand this diagram it is an "OR" gate.

it means that if either A OR B OR C is energized then it will energize the other circuit.

*I should have known this was the gate to use when i was working over the problem in my head. I kept saying to myself "i want the fan to come on if room 1 *OR* 2 *OR *3requests it to.


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## kushking840 (Dec 11, 2009)

Hey guys, I was Hoping someone can help me out...I am planning on running 3000 watts in hps and about 500 in other equipment...im pretty sure my house is on a normal circuit. There are 3 sockets in the room i plan to use, would it be safe to run each 1000 watter plugged into each socket and have the remaining 500 watts run from an extension cord. I'm worried i might overload the circuit, does anyone know of way that wont cost me alot of money to get these lights up and running Thanks!!


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## curioushiker (Dec 11, 2009)

kushking840 said:


> Hey guys, I was Hoping someone can help me out...I am planning on running 3000 watts in hps and about 500 in other equipment...im pretty sure my house is on a normal circuit. There are 3 sockets in the room i plan to use, would it be safe to run each 1000 watter plugged into each socket and have the remaining 500 watts run from an extension cord. I'm worried i might overload the circuit, does anyone know of way that wont cost me alot of money to get these lights up and running Thanks!!


If all 3 sockets are on them same circuit running just he 3 x1000 watt lights will overload the circuit. 
as posted on the previous pages ofthis thread add up your total watts then devide that by the voltage. This will give you the amps that will be pulled by the lights etc etc. 
ie. 3 lights at 1000 watts each= 3000 watts devided by 120 volts =25 amps.
Hope this helps.


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## kushking840 (Dec 11, 2009)

curioushiker said:


> If all 3 sockets are on them same circuit running just he 3 x1000 watt lights will overload the circuit.
> as posted on the previous pages ofthis thread add up your total watts then devide that by the voltage. This will give you the amps that will be pulled by the lights etc etc.
> ie. 3 lights at 1000 watts each= 3000 watts devided by 120 volts =25 amps.
> Hope this helps.


OH ok thanks alot, so would this mean that i wouldnt need an electrician to come set up another circuit.?


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## ol hippy (Dec 11, 2009)

Hi Sparky, Just wanted to ask can I run : 1 600 watt hps light with 6" exhaust etc, my water and air pumps (for a 4 pot hydro setup 8gal res) small fan , cool mist humidifyer in a 4'x4'x7' tent in my extra bedroom. Would I need to run a special circut or would the standard wall plugs be fine? Thanks guys..


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## wyteboi (Dec 12, 2009)

ol hippy said:


> Hi Sparky, Just wanted to ask can I run : 1 600 watt hps light with 6" exhaust etc, my water and air pumps (for a 4 pot hydro setup 8gal res) small fan , cool mist humidifyer in a 4'x4'x7' tent in my extra bedroom. Would I need to run a special circut or would the standard wall plugs be fine? Thanks guys..


Well a standard wall plug is usually a 15 amp circuit, but there are usually other plugs/lights tied in with it, so you wont really have a full 15 amps to work with.
you are gonna want to find out what is all on that circuit before using it.
You need at least a full 15 amp circuit to run that stuff. i would go with 2 -15 amp circuits (just so u can add later) 1-20 amp circuit would be fine also. 
add up the watts of every single device and divide by 120 and that is the amount of amps you will be using.


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## tha dankster (Dec 12, 2009)

i have a problem. really big problem. everytime my heating and air unit for the house comes on it trips my light. anyone know why?


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## proheto8008 (Dec 12, 2009)

proheto8008 said:


> so i figured it out i think. It was a fuckin headach but i knew some relay logic was the way to go.
> 
> the boxes with the "X"'s on them are the electromagnet side of a relay.(there are 3 of them)
> 
> ...


*does anyone know anything about relay circuits/industrial relay logic?* I want to add a secont output to this circuit. I want to add a speed control so that the fan is on low speed if only one room needs air, but if 2 or more need air then it switches the fan into high speed. 

I figure i can do it with a single pole double throw relays(to give me a second output, but how do i wire the output to the speed controller so that i get the desired results. 

I can think for myself so im not looking for someone to figure the whole thing out for me but i could use a nudge in the right direction.


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## kushking840 (Dec 13, 2009)

hey question for any of you electricians out there..I'd like to get an approximate estimate on how much it would cost to run a separate 30 amp circuit running to the basement recreation room i;ll need to run 2 1000hps lights 2 1000 watt metal halide 1 6 inch exhaust fan and many squirrel cage blowers. it is COLD AS FUCK where i live so i wont be in any need of AC thanks alot to everyone who is replying to posts as i am learning alot


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 13, 2009)

tha dankster said:


> i have a problem. really big problem. everytime my heating and air unit for the house comes on it trips my light. anyone know why?


Does it come back on after a few minutes by itself? If so, voltage drop. Could be the house wiring or util co.


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## Resin225 (Dec 14, 2009)

HEYYYY SPARKY..... 

I've got a 425cfm fan. I am putting it on a speed control when the light is off. Is running the fan at less than full speed hard on the fan? 
Seems to be a decent speed control from HTG supply.

Thanks for the help as always!!!


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## tha dankster (Dec 14, 2009)

it's on an isolated circuit. when the air unit cuts on, the light cycles off and comes right back on. i know this to be bad for plants as well as the bulb itself. someone told me it could be the bulb is getting old....thanks for you reply.. sorry if my format is a little off, kinda new to forums. thanks


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## nutfoot (Dec 14, 2009)

hey, i picked up a cooltube with that has a built in socket for the bulb with b/w wires comin out the back bare. The ballast i got with it has a socket attached to the end of its output already too, so do i need to splice the cable before its socket and wire it to the one already on the cooltube? note the one already attached will not mount properly in the cooltube.

also 2nd part to do with voltage, the ballast says 240v on it with marker, but has a 3 prong 120 volt looking plug on it. The manufacturer writing on it says 120v, but then has a chart showing that 240v = 4.5 amps/120v=9.5 amps or something close to that, i asked them to wire it to 240v for me at the store, but i thought that had a 4 prong outlet to it... someone please clear me up on this, thanks


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## Cliddy (Dec 14, 2009)

Can some one help me with the ammount of money you save switching to 240v?

I am running a 1000w light off 120 right now. If I switch it to 240 will I cut my costs in half or at all?

Thanks 
Peace


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## h8popo (Dec 14, 2009)

im looking to add service into my garage, which will become my workshop. i want the garage to have its own breaker box. my welders runs on 220, so that needs a line, and then i would like a 3 breakers of outlets, and a breaker for the lighting. what should i run from the house to the garage? any other imput needed ill be glad to fill you in more. thank you


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## mrmadcow (Dec 14, 2009)

Cliddy said:


> Can some one help me with the ammount of money you save switching to 240v?
> I am running a 1000w light off 120 right now. If I switch it to 240 will I cut my costs in half or at all?


you will be drawing the same watts either way so it wont change your bill



h8popo said:


> im looking to add service into my garage, which will become my workshop. i want the garage to have its own breaker box. my welders runs on 220, so that needs a line, and then i would like a 3 breakers of outlets, and a breaker for the lighting. what should i run from the house to the garage? any other imput needed ill be glad to fill you in more. thank you


consider a sub panel so you can run several breakers in the shop,a 220 for the welder,a 15 amp for lights& another 1 or 2 20 amps breakers for plugs.


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## bratva (Dec 14, 2009)

So I'm thinking of taking a plunge of indoor gardening and one of main concerns is cost.

I want to run 600w system. Does the light bulb & ballast make it now 1200watts or 1.2kwof power being used?

I read somewhere the bulb is using 600watts and the ballast uses about 15% so in total your using about 690watts is this correct?

I'd appreciate any help on this.


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 15, 2009)

Cliddy said:


> Can some one help me with the ammount of money you save switching to 240v?
> 
> I am running a 1000w light off 120 right now. If I switch it to 240 will I cut my costs in half or at all?
> 
> ...


About 20 cents a year. There is a slight efficiency to 240 over 120, but it more theoretically then a measurable in a bill.

So in reality, no savings


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 15, 2009)

tha dankster said:


> it's on an isolated circuit. when the air unit cuts on, the light cycles off and comes right back on. i know this to be bad for plants as well as the bulb itself. someone told me it could be the bulb is getting old....thanks for you reply.. sorry if my format is a little off, kinda new to forums. thanks


Isolated doesn't mean a lot if the house voltage is dropping. (the AC, if central, is on its own dedicated circuit)

Disrupting the light on is not much a prob. The prob is interrupting the dark cycle.
The ballast/bulb won't like the drop outs.


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 15, 2009)

Yes, this is true. I found a 400W its about 10% on top of the bulb wattage (same for a 150W)

The digital ballasts claims for the energy savings are *only* for what the ballast uses. 
So, lets say its a 400W, and a inductive ballast uses another 40W. Thats 440W. 
A digital with a 25% energy savings claim means 400W for bulb plus (40W - 25% = 30W) so 430W out the door.

So if the energy savings is the only factor for choosing the digital, its not worth it. (there are other reason for digital)



bratva said:


> So I'm thinking of taking a plunge of indoor gardening and one of main concerns is cost.
> 
> I want to run 600w system. Does the light bulb & ballast make it now 1200watts or 1.2kwof power being used?
> 
> ...


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## NLXSK1 (Dec 15, 2009)

Proheto,

It seems like you might be over complicating the setup but without knowing more info I cannot be sure.

Why dont you have 3 fans hooked up from the lung room independently to the 3 other chambers?

It would take 2 extra fans but might be cheaper than trying to rig an *or* circuit and possibly prevent electrical problems...

For instance, what would happen if 2 or all 3 fans needed to run at the same time?

Again, if possible I would use 3 fans to vent into the lung chamber at the top and have passive intakes at the bottom for fresh air return.


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## TehCreQ (Dec 15, 2009)

Hi, is this really true?!?!  That's great!
I have a question regarding a 150w magnetic ballast I purchased.
I cannot look up the wiring diagram for it as I can't even look up the one for the serial # it came with let alone the one with the serial # it DIDN'T come with (it said it came with a 480&120v tap on that model, it came with 120,208,240,277 or somethin like that.

Well, I am down to wiring it.. So far I have this, is this right? and if so I have some questions..










The purple lines I drew, which goes to which? I thought I read somewhere online that one goes to another and it'll work the other way but shorten the life of the ballast/bulb. I can't seem to find it now but is that true?

Other than that does that all look right to you? everything going to the right place? If you have any questions I know I'm terrible at drawing so please ask =b

Thank you...


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## phatsexygirlz (Dec 15, 2009)

I just got a nice free sealed reflector with a socket and cord thats connected directly into a 400 watt ballast.(its actually wired into the ballast) does anyone know if i can just cut it free from the ballast and wire a hydrofarm adapter to it so i can plug it into my 600 watt electronic ballast


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## TehCreQ (Dec 16, 2009)

Yes, as long as you bypass completely the ballast on the inside and wire it so it is just the socket to the wire going out to the electrical ballast it should be fine.. As long as the reflector and socket are meant to handle a lamp with at least as much wattage & current as the one you are planning to use!


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## Thundernuts (Dec 17, 2009)

Hi brick,
I was wondering if you could explain how to wire a computer fan?I have an idea,but not sure if it would work.Could you take a universal adapter and splice it together with the fan,or is there more to it than that?
Thanks


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## piffsmokingmaniac (Dec 18, 2009)

whasup brick
i took two lamps apart to get the wiring. i got four cfl's goin what i did was i taped into one wire to connect the other light and tapped into the other for the other light so basically two lamps powerin four light sockets its workin just fine the only thing is i connected the other two lights with speaker wire. is this ok???


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## TehCreQ (Dec 18, 2009)

Thundernuts:
(I do this all the time)
Find a DC adapter with the same voltage as the fan (eg usually 12v, but you can use a 5v-9v one out of necessity the fan will just power slower, i'd reccomend not cutting voltage by more than half as this can overstress the fan motor and cause it to fail sooner)
The fan's usually have 3 wires for PC fans, 2 voltage 1 speed, the speed is usually yellow and the +/- red/black. Usually the line that's not solid black in the adapter is the positive (like if two are black but one has a white line on it it's usually positive)

Piffs: The speaker wire _COULD_ be fine but I wouldn't risk it. Get some 14-16 guage wire from home depot and rig it up right!! =) (or whatever guage I am NOT experienced on that as far as safety, I usually just ask the person in home depot and then ask him if it's okay to use overkill in whatever situation I'm in, lol!)

Hope this helps!


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## TehCreQ (Dec 18, 2009)

BTW If you can get some small male/female plugs for the fan, I would. This way you can splice them into the wires and disconnect/connect the fan whenever you want. This makes VERY handy for being able to feed the fans power cable into/through whatever you have to to place the fan where it needs to go/reposition it.
Remember, even if it's in the perfect spot now it wont be sometime in the future...
I had used butt splices before (they're the easiest to splice any kinda electrical shit with haha) and it did not come in handy for this part of it =P


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## bmiquet (Dec 20, 2009)

I posted a thread yesterday with respect to adding a big ballast/relay/timer set up and electrical needs, etc.

Would you review it and offer any insight if you have any.

Thanks

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/284899-insight-ballast-set-up-appreciated.html


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## davison7873 (Dec 22, 2009)

I got a quick one for you. I'm a new grower and have the sea of green going into full action this month. I'm running all 1000w HPS and my electrical bill this last month increased just over $600 from my bill 2 months ago, to a total of almost $800. I expected this to happen but my question is, does this raise any red flag that I should be alarmed about? Veg room is a 600w sun master cool deluxe. All running on Galaxy ballasts.


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## curioushiker (Dec 22, 2009)

davison7873 said:


> I got a quick one for you. I'm a new grower and have the sea of green going into full action this month. I'm running all 1000w HPS and my electrical bill this last month increased just over $600 from my bill 2 months ago, to a total of almost $800. I expected this to happen but my question is, does this raise any red flag that I should be alarmed about? Veg room is a 600w sun master cool deluxe. All running on Galaxy ballasts.


 sweet Heysus man! How many 1000 watters are you running?


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## stumbler69 (Dec 22, 2009)

Alright, iv got a question that I know is easily answered, but i just cant find a good schematic. I am pretty electrically inclined Im more looking for other ideas other than my own on how to go about this.

So I have one nice Lumatek 1000W ballast. Iv got two rooms... See my direction..

Whats going to be the best way to wire up 2 bulbs to one 1000W ballast on alternating cycles, so when one is on the other is off?

I was thinking I would need just one timer, wire it up to a 120v DPDT relay, so when the timer goes into its "on" period the relay is energized and allows current through to one bulb, and when the timer goes "off" the relay goes back into its normally closed state energizing the other bulb.
The only concern is that the ballast has that moment of no load when the relay is clicking back and forth. I just want to avoid frying something expensive.. lol


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## romano (Dec 23, 2009)

stumbler This might help http://www.progressive-growth.com/proddetail.php?prod=43015


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## alteredthinking (Dec 23, 2009)

ElephantSteppedOnMyFoot said:


> I only have 120V outlets and I use two 600W electronic ballasts @ 120V. Is there any benefit to using a 240V electronic ballasts vs a 120V?
> 
> I never considered, until reading this thread, adding my power consumption. My room is on a 15A 120V circuit while my two 600W electronic ballasts are running that leaves 600W which should run safe on that circuit, if I'm correct.
> 
> ...


That puts you at 14.89A on a 15A circuit. That might be cutting it a little close IMO.


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## igrowdro (Dec 24, 2009)

i have three light sockets that have 250v on the side. i am assuming this is the max that it can run, i could b wrong. anyhow they are wired to #12 copper running up to where the original light in my closet was. i want to get 3 of those studio light sockets that converts 1 into 4, and want to get 12 40w cfl to put 4 into each splitter to veg 6 plants. 80w of cfl per plant. on each cfl bulb itself it says they take 120v each. can i run a 4way splitter with 4 bulbs in one of these 250v sockets


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## couchlock907 (Dec 24, 2009)

is there a way to get a bigger fuse/circuit for my box in the house to handle the load a little better? im in a apt? also would a newer fridge help the electric? danks alot!


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## Kongbuds (Dec 24, 2009)

any electrical suggestions on my 8x8x8 grow room. room will be split in two. veg side will have 12 cfl's an commercial air pump and ocsalating fan. flowering side will have two 400 watt bulbs and two ballast, two 8" in line fans and one squirrel cage fan. do i need to get an enviromental controller? if so how do you wire everything to it? also will have 20lb bottle of co2. will have ebb and flow system for 72 plants. no idea what im going to veg them in. how can i wire all these things up to work on one or two controllers?


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 24, 2009)

alteredthinking said:


> That puts you at 14.89A on a 15A circuit. That might be cutting it a little close IMO.


Its over. should only use a max of 75-80% of rated breaker load.


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 24, 2009)

igrowdro said:


> i have three light sockets that have 250v on the side. i am assuming this is the max that it can run, i could b wrong. anyhow they are wired to #12 copper running up to where the original light in my closet was. i want to get 3 of those studio light sockets that converts 1 into 4, and want to get 12 40w cfl to put 4 into each splitter to veg 6 plants. 80w of cfl per plant. on each cfl bulb itself it says they take 120v each. can i run a 4way splitter with 4 bulbs in one of these 250v sockets


The voltage rating is based on dielectric strength. aka: what the insulation is rated for.

Too much voltage and it can jump over/through. Too much current and things melt.


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 24, 2009)

couchlock907 said:


> is there a way to get a bigger fuse/circuit for my box in the house to handle the load a little better? im in a apt? also would a newer fridge help the electric? danks alot!


Putting in a bigger breaker is only 5% of the work. You *HAVE* to increase the wire size going from the breaker to the outlet(s) if increasing a breaker.

As for the fridge? will help on the bill. (maybe)


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## igrowdro (Dec 24, 2009)

thanks man, the pic attached is how i have my cfls set up, so instead of getting a studio 1to4 socket i should get 3 more 250v sockets and 3 more Y splitters to get the desired amount of lights in there? how many sockets do you think i would be able to add like this would 10 b a dangerous amount?


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 27, 2009)

igrowdro said:


> thanks man, the pic attached is how i have my cfls set up, so instead of getting a studio 1to4 socket i should get 3 more 250v sockets and 3 more Y splitters to get the desired amount of lights in there? how many sockets do you think i would be able to add like this would 10 b a dangerous amount?


My God! At least use wirenuts. A simple turn, and exposed, and on wood?
Can you say fire? 

Those simple twists will loosen over time, it will start to arc, and the arcs can easily cause a fire.


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## jadeshecky (Dec 27, 2009)

lol i love your profile pic. okay here goes, currently i am using 4 26 watt cfls and the 3 light s that are in the hood of my aerogarden. today i picked up 2 HID HPS Sylvania 150 w the numbers on the bulb are S55 and it has a med base (looks like it will fit in a regular light fixture) my question is this. how do i build a ballast to support these two bulbs. I can wire so I am comfortable with that and I know how to insulate and use wire nuts. lol step by step would really help. many thanks and +rep


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 27, 2009)

jadeshecky said:


> lol i love your profile pic. okay here goes, currently i am using 4 26 watt cfls and the 3 light s that are in the hood of my aerogarden. today i picked up 2 HID HPS Sylvania 150 w the numbers on the bulb are S55 and it has a med base (looks like it will fit in a regular light fixture) my question is this. how do i build a ballast to support these two bulbs. I can wire so I am comfortable with that and I know how to insulate and use wire nuts. lol step by step would really help. many thanks and +rep


Best to just get a security lamp that uses a 150W HPS. has all you need (maybe minus a plant happy reflector.) Gut it into a remote ballast.
(the ones at Lowes and Cheap Homo even come with bulbs)

You could go somewhere like 1000bulbs.com and do a DIY, but after you figure in the shipping and such, might be more expensive.


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## igrowdro (Dec 27, 2009)

it is just tempory for the next couple day till i harvest my plant and do away with the lights and the cab and put the smaller plants under my MH light along with my soon to be reveggin mother plant. then i am going to do a rubber made tub grow, i will reduce the number of sockets down to (1)two way light socket (2)medium to e40 mogul addapters and get (2)250 watt 240v mogal base 6500k full spectrum cfl grow lights, which leads me to my question..... when it says 250v sockets does that mean each sockets(on pic 1) will hold 250v?


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## jadeshecky (Dec 28, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Best to just get a security lamp that uses a 150W HPS. has all you need (maybe minus a plant happy reflector.) Gut it into a remote ballast.
> (the ones at Lowes and Cheap Homo even come with bulbs)
> 
> You could go somewhere like 1000bulbs.com and do a DIY, but after you figure in the shipping and such, might be more expensive.


thanks big bud balls.


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## wyteboi (Dec 28, 2009)

igrowdro said:


> it is just tempory for the next couple day till i harvest my plant and do away with the lights and the cab and put the smaller plants under my MH light along with my soon to be reveggin mother plant. then i am going to do a rubber made tub grow, i will reduce the number of sockets down to (1)two way light socket (2)medium to e40 mogul addapters and get (2)250 watt 6500k full spectrum cfl grow lights, which leads me to my question..... when it says 250v sockets does that mean each sockets(on pic 1) will hold 250v?


Yes that is correct, but you can put 10 bulbs on that and it will still be 120v or 240v. (my guess is , your doing 120v?)
I think you are wanting to know how many bulbs you can put in there and still be safe? If so then you have to go by the amp rating of the wire and the socket.
2 of those 250watt bulbs = a lil over 4 amps @ 120v OR a lil over 2 amps @ 240v.

wb


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## rascal (Dec 28, 2009)

hey sparky. i just finished wiering up a digital ge 240v timer with 10-2 wire the timer will power 4 240 volt receptacles so i can eventually run 4 1000w ballasts @ 5amps each. i used white wire as a second hot like with a water heater on a 30amp breaker so theirs 2 hots and a ground this should work right ? i have 10-3 wire but the 240v timer is made for only 2 wire not 3, does this seem right to you ? iv wired a dozen or so houses my self so i have a clue just double cheking im going to cut of my ballast plug and put a 240v male end on it.


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## FreeLeaf (Dec 28, 2009)

I have a question. I will soon be upgrading to a small warehouse to produce MMJ for a co-op here in California and I have a question. I will be running one 1000w and 2 600w lamps in the flower chamber and three 600w lamps in the veg cave. Each chamber will also need fans and small A/C. I have been doing some research on exactly how to wire the lights correctly using high voltage contactors with built in timers but I can't find much out their. I Also need an enviromental control unit that will turn the A/C's on and off. Does anybody here have any experience with this? wiring diagrams? Links to product?
Thanks


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 28, 2009)

FreeLeaf said:


> I have a question. I will soon be upgrading to a small warehouse to produce MMJ for a co-op here in California and I have a question. I will be running one 1000w and 2 600w lamps in the flower chamber and three 600w lamps in the veg cave. Each chamber will also need fans and small A/C. I have been doing some research on exactly how to wire the lights correctly using high voltage contactors with built in timers but I can't find much out their. I Also need an enviromental control unit that will turn the A/C's on and off. Does anybody here have any experience with this? wiring diagrams? Links to product?
> Thanks


Just get the industrial contactors with 120VAC coils and use standard off the shelf timers to control the coils of the contactors.

No surprise you are having trouble finding a contactor with built in timer.

For the AC, depends on the AC itself. If just off the shelf window or portable is gonna be a bit tougher. Here you might want to look at industrial AC meant for cooling electrical cab. But buckle up, they are pricey.

If you know which end of the soldering iron to grab, hacking a window unit is quite possible. (just need a timer to keep it off for at least 10-15 minutes before starting up again. AC units don't like short cycling)


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## FreeLeaf (Dec 28, 2009)

So you would not be running 2200w through the regular ol home depot timer? I have read that they can not take take that kind of wattage.


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## dakin3d (Dec 29, 2009)

I have a few questions regarding wiring for a MMJ room, but I guess the bottom line Q is.... Should I wire an additional breaker box independent of the primary box (120V) that is used for the house even though it has available slots for additional individual breakers. I'm upgrading my room in an unfinished basement so that I can run 2x 1000W HPS (will add another 1000W lamp in 9 mos), 1x 400W MH, 1x 4' 4-bulb HO T5, Possibly a space heater (1500W), Dehumidifier (550W), 5x 396 gph pumps w/ recyclable timer, 1000V UPS (Batt backup), Sulfur burner, 'Cool Breeze' charcoal air purifier, 500cfm inline fan, 2x 3.5 light movers 6 rpm, and various other small peripheral items not to exceed 750W (ie, oscillating fans, small ozone emitter, Tanked CO2 on timer, etc.)

Would like to be able to expand to eventually utilize 4x total HPS lamps, a CO2 burner, a chiller, and small industrial A/C, but that is a couple years down the road... Would it be wise to be prepared now, or can it wait until then?

If I should add an additional box, should I go ahead and wire it at 240V, instead of 120V? Or will that just create problems w/ all of the other peripheral grow equipment besides the ballasts? I obviously live in the US.

I have limited experience, so reference materials, or anything that you can do to point me in the right direction is much appreciated. Thanks for your time.


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## autoflowerer:) (Dec 29, 2009)

Hey everyone, great thread. First off I'd like to state before my question that im in the middle of my first grow and really dont know much at all(seriously) when it comes to electrical stuff... so i am very greatful for this thread. 
First off, for an apartment, whats the highest wattage lamp you'd feel comfortable using without making the meter run extremely high and tell all to the meter reader? When a meter reader sees a high running meter, is it not a big deal as long as it isnt improbable that normal electronics would have caused it(how much wattage in lamps would that be). What would they need to see to make them go report something? Im running a 90w ufo and about 150-200w of cfls...and replaced the rest of our lights with 14w cfls, and our electric bill is like the same as before i started my grow. I wish I could upgrade to a 400w hps but im worried it will make our meter run way to high(150-25w hps is wat im thinkin ill have to settle for). I am also moving eventually into a house...how much wattage would u feel comfortable running in a house? 
I was also looking at some lights on htg and there was an option to get a battery powered backup... pardon my ignorance seriously i know this might be a dumb question, but is it possible to run a hps of batteries(and it doesnt matter if id need a shitload to keep it going), just saw it and thot id ask. 
thank you for your help again rep this thread is a great idea.


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## jimcity21 (Dec 29, 2009)

i got a sun system 400 watt mh... can i run an hps bulb in it? also can a run like a 150 watt mh in it what would happen to any of there sceniaro's? ty


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## dakin3d (Dec 29, 2009)

autoflowerer:) said:


> Hey everyone, great thread. First off I'd like to state before my question that im in the middle of my first grow and really dont know much at all(seriously) when it comes to electrical stuff... so i am very greatful for this thread.
> First off, for an apartment, whats the highest wattage lamp you'd feel comfortable using without making the meter run extremely high and tell all to the meter reader? When a meter reader sees a high running meter, is it not a big deal as long as it isnt improbable that normal electronics would have caused it(how much wattage in lamps would that be). What would they need to see to make them go report something? Im running a 90w ufo and about 150-200w of cfls...and replaced the rest of our lights with 14w cfls, and our electric bill is like the same as before i started my grow. I wish I could upgrade to a 400w hps but im worried it will make our meter run way to high(150-25w hps is wat im thinkin ill have to settle for). I am also moving eventually into a house...how much wattage would u feel comfortable running in a house?
> I was also looking at some lights on htg and there was an option to get a battery powered backup... pardon my ignorance seriously i know this might be a dumb question, but is it possible to run a hps of batteries(and it doesnt matter if id need a shitload to keep it going), just saw it and thot id ask.
> thank you for your help again rep this thread is a great idea.


First thing you should do is research your cost/kwh. Then you can do the math that will tell you not only how much energy you will actually use, but the cost to run your lamp. I can tell you that a 400W HID is NOT going to 'tip off' an employee of the power company. Not even if it ran constantly (mine did during veg). I know this from experience, and I pay .12 (cents)/kwh. Kinda pricey, but certain states/areas will be more, including CA. IMHO, you could get away w/ a 600W easily, and depending on the size of your apt, even 1x 1000W HID. You have an entertainment system (ie, nice TV, surround sound), run the dryer, stove, and microwave a lot, have a girlfriend who spends the night and runs her blow dryer for an hour everyday, etc, for all they know. (Assuming you have laundry facilities.... if not, it STILL doesn't matter.)

You should be more concerned w/ light leaks, foot traffic, paranoia, and odor, more than anything. Hope this helps. I'm sure others will be able to offer up some useful info, as well. Stay safe and Happy Growing!


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## FreeLeaf (Dec 29, 2009)

Still looking for some advice on how to wire 2200w of lights together with a timer...anyone?


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## autoflowerer:) (Dec 29, 2009)

dakin3d said:


> First thing you should do is research your cost/kwh. Then you can do the math that will tell you not only how much energy you will actually use, but the cost to run your lamp. I can tell you that a 400W HID is NOT going to 'tip off' an employee of the power company. Not even if it ran constantly (mine did during veg). I know this from experience, and I pay .12 (cents)/kwh. Kinda pricey, but certain states/areas will be more, including CA. IMHO, you could get away w/ a 600W easily, and depending on the size of your apt, even 1x 1000W HID. You have an entertainment system (ie, nice TV, surround sound), run the dryer, stove, and microwave a lot, have a girlfriend who spends the night and runs her blow dryer for an hour everyday, etc, for all they know. (Assuming you have laundry facilities.... if not, it STILL doesn't matter.)
> 
> You should be more concerned w/ light leaks, foot traffic, paranoia, and odor, more than anything. Hope this helps. I'm sure others will be able to offer up some useful info, as well. Stay safe and Happy Growing!



Thank you very much for the information and for getting back to me so fast. I am glad to hear you say uve ran 400watters with no problem. As for light leaks Ive got that covered, literally noone knows or comes here, odor is at bay, and i am still pretty paranoid lol. But ya man once again thanks. Keep growin!


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## igrowdro (Dec 29, 2009)

FreeLeaf said:


> Still looking for some advice on how to wire 2200w of lights together with a timer...anyone?


 how many lights you planning on using


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## FreeLeaf (Dec 29, 2009)

2 600's and a 1000 for flowering and three 600's for vegin. thank you for responding.


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## FreeLeaf (Dec 29, 2009)

Just to clarify, It will be in a small warehouse and I will be flowering and veging at the same time. two seperate chambers.


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 29, 2009)

FreeLeaf said:


> So you would not be running 2200w through the regular ol home depot timer? I have read that they can not take take that kind of wattage.



Nope. The timer controls the relay/contactor.


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 29, 2009)

autoflowerer:) said:


> Im running a 90w ufo and about 150-200w of cfls


so thats 240-290 watts. A 400W will use about 450W from the outlet. Not a huge jump



> I was also looking at some lights on htg and there was an option to get a battery powered backup... pardon my ignorance seriously i know this might be a dumb question, but is it possible to run a hps of batteries(and it doesnt matter if id need a shitload to keep it going), just saw it and thot id ask.
> thank you for your help again rep this thread is a great idea.


Battery back up? Power go out a lot? disrupting the lights on isn't near a prob as disrupting the lights off. If power outages is an issue, I suggest using the UPS to power a few CFLs.


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 29, 2009)

jimcity21 said:


> i got a sun system 400 watt mh... can i run an hps bulb in it? also can a run like a 150 watt mh in it what would happen to any of there sceniaro's? ty


No and no. Its been said that a MH in a HPS ballast should work. THe HPS has an igniter, the MH doesn't. Seems to be the only diff.

Using a different wattage bulb is also frowned upon. The ballast is a current limiting device, keeps the bulb's draw in check.


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## phatsexygirlz (Dec 29, 2009)

How much should an electrician in CA charge for installing a 50 amp outlet?
Basically I want to know how much an electrician would charge to install that. I was given an estimate at about $150, just wanted to know if that's reasonable. The 50 amp outlet will be going in right below my panel box (125 amps), on the corner of the house, and I am providing the outlet ( http://tinyurl.com/29fdbm ) myself.


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## curioushiker (Dec 29, 2009)

FreeLeaf said:


> 2 600's and a 1000 for flowering and three 600's for vegin. thank you for responding.


You should use a pre-built (wired) relay. C.A.P. makes a MLC8 that will handle your needs. I should be wired 240v to keep the amps down.
Sentinel also makes one as well


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 30, 2009)

phatsexygirlz said:


> How much should an electrician in CA charge for installing a 50 amp outlet?
> Basically I want to know how much an electrician would charge to install that. I was given an estimate at about $150, just wanted to know if that's reasonable. The 50 amp outlet will be going in right below my panel box (125 amps), on the corner of the house, and I am providing the outlet ( http://tinyurl.com/29fdbm ) myself.


Putting in a 50A outlet from a 125A service? I'd first so an audit and see if you can put in a 50A outlet. 

$150 sounds a tiny bit high. But the 'house call' is probably $50 of that.
Short piece of wire, short piece of conduit, conduit fittings and boxes. Might be about right.

Estimates are always uber tough when not there. Can't see whats involved.


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## FreeLeaf (Dec 30, 2009)

Thank You Curious +rep for takin the time


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## serialkiller (Dec 30, 2009)

I gotta question about this 65watt CFL I just got. I have a mogul base socket on a cord but I dont know if just that would work cause on the box it says its un-ballasted and it wont work in a regular mogul base socket, only in the fixture its a replacement for.

So is that true? And if so is there a 65 watt ballast I could buy and wire up?


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 31, 2009)

serialkiller said:


> I gotta question about this 65watt CFL I just got. I have a mogul base socket on a cord but I dont know if just that would work cause on the box it says its un-ballasted and it wont work in a regular mogul base socket, only in the fixture its a replacement for.
> 
> So is that true? And if so is there a 65 watt ballast I could buy and wire up?


Sounds like you need a ballast. Might be better off returning and getting the whole kit-n-kaboodle. You can use the wire/socket to you have to make it a remote ballast.


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## serialkiller (Dec 31, 2009)

Thats what I was thinking, about getting a ballast for a regular shop light and wiring it. This was going to be suppliment lighting for my non MJ indoor garden but I just picked up a 400W MH for it for $50, figured I couldnt make this work for that cheap even if I could it would be shit compared to the MH. 

thanks anyway.


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## burnonedown21 (Dec 31, 2009)

kind of a stupid question but im curious, would it be possible to run a 400w hps or hid bulb off of a 250w ballast and just get the 250watts?


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## FreeLeaf (Dec 31, 2009)

burnonedown21 said:


> kind of a stupid question but im curious, would it be possible to run a 400w hps or hid bulb off of a 250w ballast and just get the 250watts?


It probably would not have the juice to ignite it.


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## mrmadcow (Dec 31, 2009)

serialkiller said:


> Thats what I was thinking, about getting a ballast for a regular shop light and wiring it. This was going to be suppliment lighting for my non MJ indoor garden but I just picked up a 400W MH for it for $50, figured I couldnt make this work for that cheap even if I could it would be shit compared to the MH.
> 
> thanks anyway.


the ballast has to be made for the light.stick w/ the 400 mh


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## mmaaddmmaann (Jan 3, 2010)

Hey there Bricktown, Nice work on the thread. I'v been tearing thru the thread in search of some PLC related information and didn't find any, thou I didn't look at every page. I'm in the process of learning to use my new Click PLC in conjunction with cheap CO2, temp Humidity, light and water timing all on the one unit. I was wondering if I throw a few schematics your way if you could look at them and see if things look ok. I'm not sure if you have experience with lov voltage (resistors op amps, ect,) but if you do I would love a bit of a hand. My plan is to do up a bad ass tutorial for a fully controllable computer system thats affordable for the home grower. Cheers, 
mmaaddmmaann


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 3, 2010)

mmaaddmmaann said:


> Hey there Bricktown, Nice work on the thread. I'v been tearing thru the thread in search of some PLC related information and didn't find any, thou I didn't look at every page. I'm in the process of learning to use my new Click PLC in conjunction with cheap CO2, temp Humidity, light and water timing all on the one unit. I was wondering if I throw a few schematics your way if you could look at them and see if things look ok. I'm not sure if you have experience with lov voltage (resistors op amps, ect,) but if you do I would love a bit of a hand. My plan is to do up a bad ass tutorial for a fully controllable computer system thats affordable for the home grower. Cheers,
> mmaaddmmaann


bricktown seems to be long gone.

Got your sensor? The clicks look ok ( though I disgregaurded them for some reason)


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## Lo'pan (Jan 3, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> No and no. Its been said that a MH in a HPS ballast should work. THe HPS has an igniter, the MH doesn't. Seems to be the only diff.
> 
> Using a different wattage bulb is also frowned upon. The ballast is a current limiting device, keeps the bulb's draw in check.


 
Hey Bigbud... I was wondering about this a while back. I thought about wiring a bypass for the ingniter on an hps so i could throw in a MH lamp. Any thoughts on this idea? Do you think its possible?


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## Aussie Grown (Jan 3, 2010)

Hi i was wondering if u had or knew off where i could get some in depth intel about these new gen smart meters, and wether or not the could help narrow down power taps, as well as how the networking side of the unit operates and just what information it transmits, apart from meter readout tahnks any intel would be marvelous thanks


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## smokebros (Jan 3, 2010)

dannnngg 1250 replies


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## dan nash (Jan 3, 2010)

how can i obtain power without the electricity company knowing?


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## city2city (Jan 3, 2010)

hey!

i was wondering if you could direct me to a link or any info that would help me wire some new lines to my room in one of my houses... right now 3 (1000w HPS) lights is on along with other fans, o2 pumps, water pumps, timers.. 1st 1000w is powered from an extension cord from another room. and the other 2 are from the 2 sockets in the room.. different circuits im assuming... the circuits in the breaker box are 15 amps... is there any possible way to wire up a couple more 1000w from other rooms without using all these extension cords?


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## Lo'pan (Jan 4, 2010)

city2city said:


> hey!
> 
> i was wondering if you could direct me to a link or any info that would help me wire some new lines to my room in one of my houses... right now 3 (1000w HPS) lights is on along with other fans, o2 pumps, water pumps, timers.. 1st 1000w is powered from an extension cord from another room. and the other 2 are from the 2 sockets in the room.. different circuits im assuming... the circuits in the breaker box are 15 amps... is there any possible way to wire up a couple more 1000w from other rooms without using all these extension cords?


There are a couple of things you can do... First of you have to find out what size wire is run to the plugs in your grow room. If it is 12 gauge wire then you can easily replace the ckt breaker with a 20 amp. It is possible to do this with 14 gauge wire, but you if you pull close to 18 amps it will cause the wire to heat up due to resistance and that can obviousely lead to trouble. 

You could run another circuit to the bedroom from your breaker panel but that be a real pain depending on what kind of house/apt you have. 

That being said, if you dont have a working knowledge of residential electricity, I strongly suggest you consult a professional before you do anything. You dont want to burn the house down cuz you were trying to eliminate a couple of extension cords....

I might be able to give you a few suggestions if you can elaborate a little more on your situation. PM me if you want.


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 4, 2010)

Lo'pan said:


> Hey Bigbud... I was wondering about this a while back. I thought about wiring a bypass for the ingniter on an hps so i could throw in a MH lamp. Any thoughts on this idea? Do you think its possible?


Its been done (and even here; theres a post or two). I can't verify how 'correct' it is. The ballast may be different. I haven't put a meter on the coils of a MH & HPS to see if they are diff.


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 4, 2010)

Aussie Grown said:


> Hi i was wondering if u had or knew off where i could get some in depth intel about these new gen smart meters, and wether or not the could help narrow down power taps, as well as how the networking side of the unit operates and just what information it transmits, apart from meter readout tahnks any intel would be marvelous thanks


Basically they will report back usage/demand and times of day. They can't tell the living room is using 500W and the bathroom is using 5000W. But they can tell per phase. They send info back via a signal on top of the AC power. (much like the power line networking or the speakers you plug into the wall, the signal is running with the AC)

They *should* block the signal from entering your home, as not to interfere with the above mentioned items. You can toss a o'scope on it and see whats going on.


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 4, 2010)

dan nash said:


> how can i obtain power without the electricity company knowing?


You can perfect it while sitting in jail. You will get caught. Just pay your bill.


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 4, 2010)

city2city said:


> hey!
> 
> i was wondering if you could direct me to a link or any info that would help me wire some new lines to my room in one of my houses... right now 3 (1000w HPS) lights is on along with other fans, o2 pumps, water pumps, timers.. 1st 1000w is powered from an extension cord from another room. and the other 2 are from the 2 sockets in the room.. different circuits im assuming... the circuits in the breaker box are 15 amps... is there any possible way to wire up a couple more 1000w from other rooms without using all these extension cords?


Hire an electrician. Too many flags in this post for a DIY.


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## curioushiker (Jan 4, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Basically they will report back usage/demand and times of day. They can't tell the living room is using 500W and the bathroom is using 5000W. But they can tell per phase. They send info back via a signal on top of the AC power. (much like the power line networking or the speakers you plug into the wall, the signal is running with the AC)
> 
> They *should* block the signal from entering your home, as not to interfere with the above mentioned items. You can toss a o'scope on it and see whats going on.


Please forgive my ignorance on the subject. I have asked this question but have not gotten an answer for whatever reason. 
If a grow is legal (medicinal use) why the parranoina about electricity use and the ability to track it?


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## Weedhopper (Jan 4, 2010)

curioushiker said:


> Please forgive my ignorance on the subject. I have asked this question but have not gotten an answer for whatever reason.
> If a grow is legal (medicinal use) why the parranoina about electricity use and the ability to track it?


I am a Medical Marihuana caregiver and see no need to monitor energy usage. There are meters available to monitor usage, nice if you want to cost out production.

Remember though we only have a handful of states that allow this situation. http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4516


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 4, 2010)

curioushiker said:


> Please forgive my ignorance on the subject. I have asked this question but have not gotten an answer for whatever reason.
> If a grow is legal (medicinal use) why the parranoina about electricity use and the ability to track it?


Its state legal, but not fed legal.


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## mmaaddmmaann (Jan 5, 2010)

hey big bud balls. Thanks for the heads up on bricktown. I do have my sensor now, a couple of them actually, I'll grab the specs in the morning and post em online for a look. Good hunting (and by hunting, I mean growing) Ladies and Gents.


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## Bucket head (Jan 5, 2010)

....


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## SupraSPL (Jan 5, 2010)

Hi Bigbud. I have an important question that I rarely see much discussion about. If a 600 watt HPS with magnetic ballast has .5 power factor, is it true that the circuit will need to carry more than 2X as much current to operate it when compared against digital ballast with power factor of 1? If so, are these typical numbers you see on HPS ballasts? 

I know this would be true in theory (true power versus apparent power) but I'm wondering how it translates in practice. I have a very cheap magnetic ballast 70w HPS and the power factor did in fact test about .5 on my Kill-A-Watt meter (80 watts true power, 160 watts apparent power).


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## NavySupra (Jan 5, 2010)

SupraSPL said:


> Hi Bigbud. I have an important question that I rarely see much discussion about. If a 600 watt HPS with magnetic ballast has .5 power factor, is it true that the circuit will need to carry more than 2X as much current to operate it when compared against digital ballast with power factor of 1? If so, are these typical numbers you see on HPS ballasts?
> 
> I know this would be true in theory (true power versus apparent power) but I'm wondering how it translates in practice. I have a very cheap magnetic ballast 70w HPS and the power factor did in fact test about .5 on my Kill-A-Watt meter (80 watts true power, 160 watts apparent power).


I'm no electrician but something doesn't add up here. The way I was taught to calculate consumption is to separate one feed and put an amp clamp on it. Determine the amps going though the line and the line voltage and divide.

So if my 400w magnetic ballast uses say 460w, it would read like this. Watts = Amps x Volts.

460w = 3.83amps X 120volts

I don't understand how the actual power used could be doubled. If there is "X" amps and "X" voltage, math will give you the resulting watts of consumption.


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## bratva (Jan 5, 2010)

I have two rooms that are both on a 15 AMP circuit. I'm already running two 600 watt lights in one room and an inline fan so roughly around 12 AMPS are being used on that circuit. Is there a way to upgrade that 15 AMP circuit to a 30 AMP using the existing wiring? From searching around it seems the wiring needs to be changed out to a different gauge wire. I did notice the other room has a ceiling fan that is not connected to this 15 AMP circuit so the best way to go about it is to tap into this ceiling fan wiring/circuit and add two outlets. That is the cheapest and easiest way I can think to get this done without having to have these rooms re-wired or having to run a new circuit two accomadate these rooms.

Let me know what you guys think any and all feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks


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## hairyrabbit (Jan 5, 2010)

Do you have any tips in rigging power boxes or diverting power to cut down my power bill?


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## doowmd (Jan 5, 2010)

how is this not a sticky, but 'my super grow room' is? shit don't make sense!


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## IAm5toned (Jan 5, 2010)

NavySupra said:


> I'm no electrician but something doesn't add up here. The way I was taught to calculate consumption is to separate one feed and put an amp clamp on it. Determine the amps going though the line and the line voltage and divide.
> 
> So if my 400w magnetic ballast uses say 460w, it would read like this. Watts = Amps x Volts.
> 
> ...


the power factor is the amount of power actually used,(true power) vs the power that is used to get the juice to where it needs to go(apparent power).

resisitive loads like heating elements and incadescent lamps have an unbroken physical bath between line voltage, and neutral voltage. because of this, there is no frequency lag, the ac is in harmony so to speak, and the power factor is 1. no adjustment needed, working with resisitive loads is like working with a dc load.

inductive loads, like electronics, motors and ballasts/transformers rely on magnetic inductance (parts that dont actually touch) because of this, with every voltage cycle on an ac circuit, there is an inrush of current. that is the power factor. the current isnt actually used, per se, it just occurs because at the moment of flatline in the voltage cycle (0 volts) there is no electrical resistance to the circuit, so when the voltage cycle starts to climb (or drop) just for the briefest of milliseconds there is no resistance and alot of current flows. THAT, is the power factor



> In a typical AC electric circuit, there is a delay between when the voltage pushes the electrons and when they actually begin to flow (the electrical current). Power Factor is a single number that defines both, how much of a delay there is and, more importantly, what percentage of the current is actually doing work.





> *Power factor in linear circuit*
> 
> 
> Instantaneous and average power calculated from AC voltage and current with a unity power factor (&#966;=0, cos&#966;=1)
> ...


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## NavySupra (Jan 5, 2010)

Do I understand this correctly?

Basically a large current or "wave" is required to carry the "used" energy the device needs to operate, but when all is said and done the extra current is dissipated and the efficiency losses are in relation to the extra resistance required for carrying the extra current?


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## IAm5toned (Jan 5, 2010)

no.

if that was the case we would be dealing with a DC circuit, not AC.

you see, AC current (alternating current) never remains at a constant voltage. in north america, on the 60hz system, at the start of the voltage cycle, the voltage is zero. then the voltage starts to rise as time goes forward, untill 177 volts positive is achieved. this is referred to as peak voltage. after peak voltage is achieved in the positive field, the current reverses direction, and the voltage devreases to zero volts, then continues to travel in the opposite direction, or negative field, untill it reaches 177 volts; then the voltage returns to 0, and another cycle begins. that complete cycle is known as 1 hz. it happens 60 times a second, its what the 60hz means you see on most electrical equipment. remember that during one complete cycle, the voltage is at 0 and there is no current flow 3 seperate times. keep that last thought in mind plz...

devices that have inductive loads have a unique property, in thatsome of the parts inside them that conduct electricity do not actual touch, instead the energized parts create a magnetic field that the current actually 'jumps' across. (it doesnt actual jump, its just easy to express it that way) its that magnetic field that causes the inrush of current that the power factor is compensating for, or more properly, it is the collapse and reformation of that magnetic field that uses the excess energy. the reason being is that the parts that utilitize that magnetic field have little or no resistance when they are not energized, think of them as the purest conductor known to man. an induction device operates at 99.997% efficiency, a simple transformer is the most effecient machine that man has ever devised. so in the nanosecond periods that precede and follow the 3 times the voltage cycle is at 0 volts, these inductive devices lose all resistance to electrical current. since resistance is the only thing that actual holds electrical power back, during those nanoseconds where there is little or no resistance because the magnetic field has collapsed, an unbelievable amount of power flows through your device. im talking 100,000 amps or more. however the duration of this current is extremely short, barely even computable, but if you plan on using a peice of equipment for a period greater than 6 hours of use, then it is something that must be accounted for, because the conductors feeding your device will start to heat up if it is not properly compensated for.

thats power factor in a nutshell, cliffnotes version. it usually takes a good hour long lecture with notes for people to grasp i properly, so i hope i didnt confuse you to much with the laymans version...


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## SupraSPL (Jan 6, 2010)

"This apparent power must be produced and transmitted to the load in the conventional fashion, and is subject to the usual distributed losses in the production and transmission processes."







So it is true then , my magnetically ballasted 70 watt HPS requires 160 (VA) of apparent power and I would select the wire gauge based on that current (1.35A). My electric bill will be based on 80 watts. Same thing applies to compact fluorescent bulbs or magnetically ballasted fluoro tubes, most of which have a power factor of .5.

It is worth mentioning, according to the Kill-A-Watt, my fluoro backlit LCD TV has a power factor of .99. Because the backlight is dimmable, it is electronically ballasted.


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## NavySupra (Jan 6, 2010)

I wish philips/advance would come up with a digital ballast that would run the 400w CMH with no issues.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 6, 2010)

yeah, the cmh lamps dont like the digi ballasts at all.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 6, 2010)

SupraSPL said:


> "This apparent power must be produced and transmitted to the load in the conventional fashion, and is subject to the usual distributed losses in the production and transmission processes."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you would also have to rate the ampacity for continuous duty, which is 120% of the true power. so if you had a load of 10 amps, you would size your conductor for a 12 amp load, and that would be compensating for a continuous duty cycle.

however going this far is usually not nessecary when dealing with small loads you would find connected to branch circuits; (less than 20 amps) unless your trying to max out a circuit's available ampacity, and that is something done primarily in a remodel type situation where replacing the wire is not an option.

as a rule of thumb, #12 is good for up to 18 amps continuous duty, and #14 is good for up to 12 amps of continuous duty usage. i would not reccomend to anyone the use of wire smaller than #14, unless it is a specialized limited use application.


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## hannsp4100 (Jan 7, 2010)

Hi, I just bought a full package of the BC northern lights grow box and im really bad with the whole electric part of the usage. 

altogether the system will be using 800 KWh. and usually the system has to run around 14 hrs.

Now A - how much will by electricity be if its .14 cents 
B - just for my knowledge so that I dont have to bother RIU ppl again, 800 KWh means KW per hour? or per month? or how is it calculated?

and would this generator provide enough electricity to run the 800 KWh system: 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Triple-Fuel-Honda-8750-W-Generator-ELECTRIC-START_W0QQitemZ390140254217QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Generators?hash=item5ad62bd809#ht_4057wt_1165

or how about 2 of these 300 KWh solar panels? will the 2 provide almost 60% of the electricity?

http://cgi.ebay.com/300kWh-Month-Large-Off-Grid-Solar-Panel-Kit-w-Batteries_W0QQitemZ250397167443QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a4cd58f53#ht_4954wt_939

thanks!


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## Snooza (Jan 8, 2010)

Hey Brick im on my first grow ive got 2 pcs fans i know there on dc 12v but dnt know the amp i got a plug thts output 12v dc 500ma should the 500ma be enough for two pc fans? sorry its abit of a stupid question but thnx for the help


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## IAm5toned (Jan 8, 2010)

Snooza said:


> Hey Brick im on my first grow ive got 2 pcs fans i know there on dc 12v but dnt know the amp i got a plug thts output 12v dc 500ma should the 500ma be enough for two pc fans? sorry its abit of a stupid question but thnx for the help


look at the fan closely. somewhere on it it will tell you the amperage of the fan motors. add them up, if the total fan motor amperage is greater than 450 ma, then the wall adapter is too small


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## SupraSPL (Jan 10, 2010)

@HannsP. 800 kilo watt hours could be a monthly usage figure who knows

An example of how to calculate cost, running 800 watts true power for 14 hours a day would be :
800 watts * .58day = 464 average watts per hour
464 watts * 24 hours = 11100 (11.1 KWh)
11.1 * $0.14 = $1.50 per day

The tricky thing is to try and find out how many watts you are actually drawing. I bought a Kill-A-Watt meter to help sort that out $23 shipped.

You can estimate if you list every piece of equipment, lights fans etc and read their AC input power. If you have AC or heating power usage then a Kill-A-Watt would be helpful because it can keep track of your accumulated energy consumption and then you can average it.


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## handyman23 (Jan 12, 2010)

i've got a question for u m8  Regarding the wattage use of bulbs, i'm gonna use 5x 250W hps lamps. Well the question is, what do you think will be the maximum use of wattage i can use on my growroom without my electrition bill getting too high, and the electro company will be wondering about me growin, like reporting me t2 the cops... any suggestions?


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## NavySupra (Jan 12, 2010)

handyman23 said:


> i've got a question for u m8  Regarding the wattage use of bulbs, i'm gonna use 5x 250W hps lamps. Well the question is, what do you think will be the maximum use of wattage i can use on my growroom without my electrition bill getting too high, and the electro company will be wondering about me growin, like reporting me t2 the cops... any suggestions?


A high end computer can consume over 200watts just idling... sometimes 1000 or more depending on specs.

A ceramic space heater uses 800-1000watts

So, whatever you are comfortable with.


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## Spinelli (Jan 12, 2010)

Thank you for offering your help! I am stuck, stuck , stuck!



Ordered my seeds, picked my room got my lights and ready to set up until I couldn't find outlets!



I think the people before me were doing the same thing and tore everything out. I took pictures of what was left behind but I can't get them on here as they are saved to my pc and not a URL, can you tell me what I need to do to fix it and what to ask for when buying please. 



I am not so good at this stuff!



Thx


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## Spinelli (Jan 12, 2010)

Thank you for offering your help! I am stuck, stuck , stuck!

Ordered my seeds, picked my room got my lights and ready to set up until I couldn't find outlets!

I think the people before me were doing the same thing and tore everything out. I took pictures of what was left behind I UPLOADED THEM INTO AN ALBUM ON MY PROFILE, can you tell me what I need to do to fix it and what to ask for when buying please.

I am not so good at this stuff!

Thx

Sorry if this comes through twice!


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## rreign (Jan 12, 2010)

Sweet thread here. I had a few quick questions that I hope you can answer. I'm not sure if I will run into a problem with some items I will have hooked up. If you could give me some ideas as to the safest way to hook all of this up, what power strip or surge protector I should use, etc. I'm not sure if these were the kind of questions you would have expected, but I hope you can help anyway. Thanks +rep for a solution.

(2) S&P 4" intake/exhaust fans
(1) 400w ballast w/ 400w MH/HPS
(4) 4' 54w CFL strip lights (ability to be daisy chained)
(1) 6" - 10" oscillating fan
(2) water pumps
(2) air pumps
(1) small humidifier
(2) dual outlet timers


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## jbigdawg79 (Jan 12, 2010)

quick question reguarding my electricity??if i convert my ballasts to 220 will it cut my electric bill ?they arew 1000 wt they run on 9.5 amps on 120 and 4.5 on 220 thanks for the help


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## IAm5toned (Jan 12, 2010)

actually, you wont save a penny... 

you get billed for watts, not amps.
the wattage remains the same regardless of amperage or voltage...


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## jbigdawg79 (Jan 13, 2010)

ok so how do you cut your electricity bill down if your running multiple ballasts?


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## smokintreez (Jan 13, 2010)

I dont think lowering cost is possible, if so let me know -lol--.......... I have 2x600w HPS, 2x 400w MH, 4x 175 watt MH over a 200 gallon salt water reef tank , plus 10 4 ft. flouros and fans and blowers and of course everything else a NORMAL house hold has. my electric bill is crazy right now.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 13, 2010)

about the only REALISTIC way of lowering operating costs and getting actual, tangible results that have a significant impact on your electrical bill, is to install solar panels or a wind turbine and sell power back to the utility company when its not being used by the household (like when everyone is at work or school)
its trippy watching the meter run backwards 

unfortunately, it will cost alot of money upfront, both to purchase and then install all the required equipment. its definitly a long term investment. and the fact of having somewhere to put big ugly solar panels or a wind turbine is also a p.i.t.a.
but it does work... like i said, _your meter will run backwards_. and, if you generate alot, you can actually get a _check_ instead of a bill.
but like i said before, it aint cheap... be prepared to shell out a good 5 digits to start.


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## smoking chef (Jan 13, 2010)

what is the best way to hire an electrician to set up a growrooms electrical needs with out tipping them off to what I am doing? Do they even care? I want to run 4 1000 watt lights plus all the fans and blowers. so I would need dedicated fuse box? Where to look for one?


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## jbigdawg79 (Jan 13, 2010)

someone also told me to buy a horseshoe magnet set and try putting different ones on the electric meter to slow the wheel from spinning so fast anyone ever heard of doing this??


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## NLOverOntario (Jan 13, 2010)

Your better off just paying the power. Everytime I hear of someone being busted its cuz they steal the power or TAMPER with their own box. But it is of course up to you


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## bblunt420 (Jan 13, 2010)

you would be suprised how many electricians do rooms. I have been a journeyman for like 10 years and have helped with quite a few setups. there are ways to trip meter but usually hydro dont like it and is illegal. best way is to by pass house for bigger setups but very dodgy and a little dangerous.. Best place to get fuse box or panel board just go to electrical wholesaler or home depot


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## Jazus (Jan 14, 2010)

Hello all, have a few noob questions that I'm stumped on. I tried to read the thread to figure out but quickly got lost and waay over my head, so I apologize if this stuff has been asked a thousand times.

My current grow room setup is pulling too much amperage and overloading my circuits. I have two 15 amp circuits to work with, and am trying to power:

3x 400w 
2x 1000w
1x 450 CFM fan
1x 7500 BTU AC

plus about 300w worth of other random electronics. It's all running on 120v. I've gathered that the simplest solution may be to switch my 1000w ballasts to 240V (they come with this option), but I have no idea how to do that. Would it require rewiring my household circuits, which presumably are set to 120v? Do I have other options? Like maybe running a twenty foot extension cord from a third outlet?

Sigh, such a bust to finally get my grow room setup complete and THEN figure out I had electrical issues. What can I say, I'm a noob at this. Please help!


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## IAm5toned (Jan 14, 2010)

to give it to you short and straight-

if your in over your head at this point, i would suggest hiring someone to do it... 

another key point to consider here is that changing the voltage that supplies all your equipment will also require you to change all your equipment out from 120v devices to 240v devices. ballasts, fans, a/c, timers.. the whole 9... what you need, is a subpanel....


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## Jazus (Jan 14, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> to give it to you short and straight-
> 
> if your in over your head at this point, i would suggest hiring someone to do it...
> 
> another key point to consider here is that changing the voltage that supplies all your equipment will also require you to change all your equipment out from 120v devices to 240v devices. ballasts, fans, a/c, timers.. the whole 9... what you need, is a subpanel....


It's just not an option for me to hire help, I wish it was but it's not. Can I just run an extension cord from a third circuit, or do they not like having a full load run through them?


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## IAm5toned (Jan 14, 2010)

extension cords like to burn when they have a full load on them.....


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## Jazus (Jan 14, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> extension cords like to burn when they have a full load on them.....


yea, we don't want that...

In terms of DIY difficulty,. how much work would it be for me to add another 120v circuit myself? And how dangerous?

EDIT, one more question. Would it be safe to run maybe half a load {6 amps or so) through a 13 amp extension cord continuously for 12 hour stretches?


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## jjburnout (Jan 14, 2010)

I was wondering if you could tell me if a 15 amp breaker is ok for my cabinet? My cabinet is the only thing on this circuit. I have a heavy duty 100' extension cor running to cabinet from a single outlet right beside my panel. I have a heavy duty power bar on cabinet with the following...

250watt ballast
130cfm squirrel cage exhaust fan
1 * pc fan wired to an adapter
1 * 6" circulation fan
two small air pumps (aquarium size)

great thread you got goin I may have to do a plumbing one lol,+rep.
thanks.....


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## homemade (Jan 14, 2010)

Hi , my little grow box i am buiulding is ging to have about 10 cfl's but can you get the fixtures to plug into the wall socket? all in one or two plugs


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## sgfromdenver (Jan 14, 2010)

Quick question: I have a sub panel in basement, 100 amp , 15 amp breaker already in place for sump pump, base lights & 1 recepticle. I'm trying to figure out how many 1000 wt hps lamps running 240 I can put in flower room that is 17ft x 32ft. I have had to nix 400wt MH for veg, due to amps they would pull, and having to go T-5 route. I would like to get (10)- (12) 1000 wt hps 240 volt, along with (6) t-5's but not quite sure exactally what amps they pull on all of them, and if I have enough leftover to run can fans, pumps, timers, ect. Any thoughts you could share, would be most helpful! thanx. SG


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## IAm5toned (Jan 15, 2010)

thats roughly 70 amps of power your talking about.
the subpanel can accomodate that load, however, i would be worried about your service entry equipment....(wires in from power co)


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## sgfromdenver (Jan 15, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> thats roughly 70 amps of power your talking about.
> the subpanel can accomodate that load, however, i would be worried about your service entry equipment....(wires in from power co)


IAm5toned Thx for your reply, House is (3-4) years old, panel box is outside, what is it that I should be concerned about? Thx SG


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## A Gentleman (Jan 15, 2010)

I have an 11' x 15' room that I am going to be growing in soon. The main light and switch are on their own circuit.

However all four of the receptacles in the room are on one circuit with a 15A breaker.

Could I use two 1000w lights safely?


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## Jazus (Jan 15, 2010)

So the 'solution' I've come up with for the time being is running a 15 amp, 12 gauge 25 foot extension cord from a 20 amp circuit, carrying ~9 amps on it. Both plugs of the cord feel cool to the touch after a day of operation, would you consider this safe IamStoned? Or am I still risking an electrical fire?


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## bigsourD (Jan 15, 2010)

A Gentleman said:


> I have an 11' x 15' room that I am going to be growing in soon. The main light and switch are on their own circuit.
> 
> However all four of the receptacles in the room are on one circuit with a 15A breaker.
> 
> Could I use two 1000w lights safely?


Im no electrician but I highly doubt that you could pull that off with only a 15 amp breaker.


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## DopeyTripod (Jan 15, 2010)

This should be a STICKY.

great knowledge in this thread.


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## bratva (Jan 17, 2010)

I have two rooms that are both on the same 15 AMP circuit. I'm already running two 600 watt lights @ 120V in one room and an inline 400CFM fan so roughly around 12 AMP'S are being used on that circuit. Is there a way to upgrade that 15 AMP circuit to a 30 AMP using the existing wiring? From searching around it seems the wiring needs to be changed out to a different gauge wire and the circuit breaker as well. I did notice the other room has a ceiling fan that is not connected to this 15 AMP circuit so the best way to go about it is to tap into this ceiling fan wiring/circuit and add two outlets into the second room. That is the cheapest and easiest way I can think to get this done without having to have these rooms re-wired or having to run a new circuit two accomadate these rooms.

Let me know what you guys think any and all feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks


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## IAm5toned (Jan 17, 2010)

bratva said:


> I have two rooms that are both on the same 15 AMP circuit. I'm already running two 600 watt lights @ 120V in one room and an inline 400CFM fan so roughly around 12 AMP'S are being used on that circuit. Is there a way to upgrade that 15 AMP circuit to a 30 AMP using the existing wiring? From searching around it seems the wiring needs to be changed out to a different gauge wire and the circuit breaker as well. I did notice the other room has a ceiling fan that is not connected to this 15 AMP circuit so the best way to go about it is to tap into this ceiling fan wiring/circuit and add two outlets into the second room. That is the cheapest and easiest way I can think to get this done without having to have these rooms re-wired or having to run a new circuit two accomadate these rooms.
> 
> Let me know what you guys think any and all feedback would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks


what you need to do is change the 120v circuit to a 240v circuit... that would free up the amps you need.
1800w = 15 amps @ 120v
1800w = 7.5 amps @ 240v

of course this would also mean your ballsts would have to be capable of running on 240v....


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## AquafinaOrbit (Jan 17, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> what you need to do is change the 120v circuit to a 240v circuit... that would free up the amps you need.
> 1800w = 15 amps @ 120v
> 1800w = 7.5 amps @ 240v
> 
> of course this would also mean your ballsts would have to be capable of running on 240v....



Does not work that way, you don't magically switch over to 240v. You have to have 3 conductors for American 240 a typical wire only has two. Also it requires a different breaker that will take up two slots. So really switching over wouldn't have much of a difference then running 14/3 and making 2 15 amp circuits that share the neutral.







> *bratva*
> I have two rooms that are both on the same 15 AMP circuit. I'm already running two 600 watt lights @ 120V in one room and an inline 400CFM fan so roughly around 12 AMP'S are being used on that circuit. Is there a way to upgrade that 15 AMP circuit to a 30 AMP using the existing wiring? From searching around it seems the wiring needs to be changed out to a different gauge wire and the circuit breaker as well. I did notice the other room has a ceiling fan that is not connected to this 15 AMP circuit so the best way to go about it is to tap into this ceiling fan wiring/circuit and add two outlets into the second room. That is the cheapest and easiest way I can think to get this done without having to have these rooms re-wired or having to run a new circuit two accomadate these rooms.
> 
> Let me know what you guys think any and all feedback would be appreciated.


A new wire would be required to upgrade the circuits load abilities. 15amps is a 14awg wire, while 20amps is 12awg. So you could replace the current cabling with a 12awg for 20 amps. It's also possible to take a 14/3 or 12/3 (2 hots 1 common) and use each hot for its own circuit while sharing the neutral, which would give you either 30amps or 40amps. Now your fan circuit seems like that best way to go, but I have my doubts its actually on its own circuit. Most likley it is feeding from a general lighting/receptacle circuit. (Not to say thats 100% just what I would guess)


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## sherriberry (Jan 17, 2010)

im moving into a bigger place. Its an old house. My grow room is going to be in the basement right next to the existing fuse box. 

There are no grounded outlets in the house... but the outlet itself has the 3 holes.

the largest fuse in the box is a 20 amp, but most are 15 and 10.

What would be your plan of attack? Should i get a seperate box? How do i run a good ground? Thanks bro

ps.. guess i should tell you about my setup.

Its probably going to have 6 fans. Pobably 6x 600 hps lights, and maybe a couple more. and prob 1x1000, and maybe even 2 of them. 

im going to have 3 big water pumps. Also going to have a portable AC, and a space heater. I figure ill shoot high that way ive got the wiring setup just incase.


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## AquafinaOrbit (Jan 18, 2010)

Well first off are we actually talking about fuses here or circuit breakers? (Sounds like it actually is fuses in this case?) Eitherway your looking at possibly 50+amps (depends on size of pumps and ac/heating units) with what your wanting to run. Personally if I was dropping that much on a setup and I had your electrical I would go to Lowes and buy a new 200Amp panel and replace your current service with it. You would also need to buy an 8ft ground rod and acorn nut. The exact wire gauge required to run from your panel to the ground rod various per state but 4awg or two rods connected with 6awg generally is accepted as safe. Now if your wanting to save some and upgrade your current service you basically going to just want to buy new fuses and run completely new circuits, but the possibility of this depends on how much more your current panel can take. New wire you have a lot of options on how to provide that much juice and an argument could be made for just about any of them, but personally I'd try to keep it 10awg or smaller (preferably 12awg)


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## CheechD (Jan 18, 2010)

how many amp braker do i need for my new room it is going to have 2 1000 waters 1 mh 1hps and 2 400 hps a few fans and a ac unit plus my flouros


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## IgrowUgrow (Jan 18, 2010)

I have a question would my electric bill be cheaper with 16 42w(150w equivelants) or a 400w HPS, also which would put off more heat. If the CFLs are cheaper than what is the best sockets to get if I am making my own fixture.


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## hendrix123 (Jan 18, 2010)

Hi i have a question for you. I have read on the net when using a standared house old timmer with HID lighting i need to have it contected to Contactor? could you please tell me if this is correct. I have a HPS 70w lamp that i need to put on a standard mains timmer would this be safe?


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## stelthy (Jan 18, 2010)

Heres my QUESTION:- IS IT POSSIBLE TO HARD WIRE 5 LIGHTS OF DIFFERENT WATTAGE TO 1 MANUAL OPPERATED TIME SWITCH? I DONT WANT TO DO IT AND THEN IT ALL GOES TITS UP PLEASE REPLY ASAP - STELTHY


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## AquafinaOrbit (Jan 18, 2010)

CheechD said:


> how many amp braker do i need for my new room it is going to have 2 1000 waters 1 mh 1hps and 2 400 hps a few fans and a ac unit plus my flouros


Just divide wattage by voltage. (So for a 1k light running 120v it'd be 1000/120=8.3amps



IgrowUgrow said:


> I have a question would my electric bill be cheaper with 16 42w(150w equivelants) or a 400w HPS, also which would put off more heat. If the CFLs are cheaper than what is the best sockets to get if I am making my own fixture.


HPS would use less wattage which is what you are billed for.(150watt equivalent means nothing besides lumen output) It would also put off less heat since it's less watts, but as its only one bulb the heat is concentrated and will seem much more then the CFLs. (CFLs heat signature is so small it doesn't penetrate but a couple inches of air)



hendrix123 said:


> Hi i have a question for you. I have read on the net when using a standared house old timmer with HID lighting i need to have it contected to Contactor? could you please tell me if this is correct. I have a HPS 70w lamp that i need to put on a standard mains timmer would this be safe?


Household timer would be fine for a 70watt lamp



stelthy said:


> Heres my QUESTION:- IS IT POSSIBLE TO HARD WIRE 5 LIGHTS OF DIFFERENT WATTAGE TO 1 MANUAL OPPERATED TIME SWITCH? I DONT WANT TO DO IT AND THEN IT ALL GOES TITS UP PLEASE REPLY ASAP - STELTHY


What type of lights are we talking about. A typical Edison base (incandescent, CFLs) then yes its very possible. (Think through-out a house, very rarely is every bulb the exact same wattage)


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## an11dy9 (Jan 18, 2010)

First i would like to say that what you are doing is great for the users here at RIU and im sure that we are all thankful for keeping us safe and informed.

I need to find out if my breaker box has any free breakers so i can run a dedicated line to my grow room. Do i simply shut off the main 100 amp breaker and unscrew a few of the screws on the panel so it exposes the "guts" and then follow with my eyes to the breaker(s) that i think are unused to determine whether or not i can install a new dedicated line? Basically for now i just want to learn how to find out if there are any free breakers because the labeling is poor, installing the line will be my next question once i know if theres an open breaker i can use... 
Thanks in advance


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## stelthy (Jan 18, 2010)

aquafinaorbit said:


> just divide wattage by voltage. (so for a 1k light running 120v it'd be 1000/120=8.3amps
> 
> 
> hps would use less wattage which is what you are billed for.(150watt equivalent means nothing besides lumen output) it would also put off less heat since it's less watts, but as its only one bulb the heat is concentrated and will seem much more then the cfls. (cfls heat signature is so small it doesn't penetrate but a couple inches of air)
> ...


hi, i am using 2x 25w mini flurescents, 2x 90w led ufos, and 1x150w envirolite (self ballasted) the socket for this one is the same size as a 400w hps screw in, and i can screw a 250w envirolite (self ballasted) straight in when i want to flower, if its not possible to wire in the mini flurescents, thats ok cos i tried them on a time switch before and they didnt switch on... Due to the start up motor i guess, so excluding the 2 25 watt mini fluresents would this work and is it safe ? - cheers for getting back to me - stelthy


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## sherriberry (Jan 18, 2010)

my bad, they are circut breakers... they can be turned on and off, and pop when too much juice is through them, and then you just switch them back. (they are sqare and go side to side)

as long as that doenst sound like fuses... 

lets keep going with that road then instead, thanks in advance!


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## newbie2010 (Jan 18, 2010)

Well after looking at that thumbnail, I think I need you to come on over and help me out in person? Very organized.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 19, 2010)

AquafinaOrbit said:


> Does not work that way, you don't magically switch over to 240v. You have to have 3 conductors for American 240 a typical wire only has two. Also it requires a different breaker that will take up two slots. So really switching over wouldn't have much of a difference then running 14/3 and making 2 15 amp circuits that share the neutral.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah my apprentices think they know everything too...

your ampacity figures arent even right... #12 Cu has been rated for 30 amps for 2 codebooks now...

and here in the U.S. a _common_ is the grounded conductor on a low voltage (60v or less) circuit.

for starters... you cant pull 15 amps on a #14. the breaker will trip. you can pull 1440 watts, @ 120v, ands thats about it.

and i dont know where you think you HAVE to have a 3 wire circuit to get 240v... maybe in a residential kitchen or laundry room (as required by NEC) the reason for that is modern appliances tap off of one leg of the 240v circuit to run the controls, as opposed to having a 240/120 powersupply that is a potential point of failure....

this is not my first ball game son. ive been doing this for a long time. so if you want to critique, do your homework first...
ps/ edit-
and as far as homework, telling that guy that a resisitive timer will work with an inductive load shows your lack of competence. quit while your ahead.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 19, 2010)

hendrix123 said:


> Hi i have a question for you. I have read on the net when using a standared house old timmer with HID lighting i need to have it contected to Contactor? could you please tell me if this is correct. I have a HPS 70w lamp that i need to put on a standard mains timmer would this be safe?


its chaeper to get a timer rated for inductive loads


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 20, 2010)

AquafinaOrbit said:


> Just divide wattage by voltage. (So for a 1k light running 120v it'd be 1000/120=8.3amps


Missing a piece. That 1000W is for the *bulb's* draw. It doesn't factor in the extra ~10% more for the ballast operation.

The CFL watt rating (used not equiv) is the draw from the wall. (bulb and ballast included)

SO 400W (true) of CFL uses less then 400W of HPS.
CFL = 400
HPS = ~450W


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## AquafinaOrbit (Jan 20, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> yeah my apprentices think they know everything too...
> 
> your ampacity figures arent even right... #12 Cu has been rated for 30 amps for 2 codebooks now...
> 
> ...


12g does 30amps for taps, or circuits at a different temperature rating but the circuit protection required for a 12awg is 20amps, see 240.4. Or we looking at 310-315? 

same page shows 14awg as 15 amperes, and more importantly a fuse works on heat so there is not magically number it just trips at its based on a time/heat factor.

Common is the grounded, meaning its not the grounding conductor but its connected to a ground. AKA the neutral.

And yeah actually the NEC is exactly why I think a three conductor is required for 240. I know a neutral is not required(that would make it a 4 prong), but two hots and a ground are as its 120 per pole so yeah a 12/2 could work, if its 12/2 with ground which wasn't required in older houses. Still your right here, I should of specified more. Honestly not really sure how I even missed posting that but guess thats what you get trying to think while high

Haha, sorry you take so much offense to online stuff but this isn't a ball game. Its a thread trying to help people with their hobby/job.

Can't argue much with this as I only know what I've learned verbally which obviously would mean nothing to you. But the reason people say not to use resistive on inductive loads is primarily for the start-up power required to charge the magnets, but at the .8power factor or even far less then that a resistive timer of 10amps could easily handle 70watts. My 600watt is controller by a resistive 15amp but alas its electronic so its startup pull, kickback, and lag are not a concern. Your right though inductive are cheap and lowes should have a suitable one for sprinklers or whatever.

Oh and no I don't think I know everything, don't even work in that field. So more then happy to learn, but your ego seems to be your main concern here. But the day I know everything about electricity is gonna be a bad day for electricians because that would mean its become so basic anyone could do it


BigBudBalls
Yeah that doesn't factor in the ballast operations, but thats because I don't know the efficiency of his ballast. Thats just a simple example I gave not a solution to his problem.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 20, 2010)

AquafinaOrbit said:


> Can't argue much with this as I only know what I've learned verbally which obviously would mean nothing to you. But the reason people say not to use resistive on inductive loads is primarily for the start-up power required to charge the magnets, but at the .8power factor or even far less then that a resistive timer of 10amps could easily handle 70watts.


the amperage/wattage/demand factor doesnt have a thing to do with it...
its the nature of the inductive load.
the inrush of an inductive load will create an arc as the points on the relay contacts close. this arc, over time, creates pitting on the contact points of the relay. this pitting,. decreases the conductivity of the relay contacts, which in turns causes the relay to heat up, this heat causes the armature of the relay to expand and become caught in a bind, in whatever position the relay was last used, which 99% of the time is the active state.
an inductive rated relay's internal parts are of a different alloy, which is less thermally reactive and more resistant to pitting. an inductive rated relay also is spring loaded, just like a saftey switch, for the same reason, arc suppression.

sorry if i came on harsh im just used to some hack trying to tell me about stuff i get paid to design, lol. so i owe you an apology for that.


----------



## Covert Ops (Jan 20, 2010)

Quick question...is ther any way i can hook a pc fan AND cfl to the same cord? atm i have a pc fan hooked up to a phone charger plug, so it acts as a transformer or something, but is ther any way i could wire that to the mains plug that is attatched to the CFL? Just to keep the wires minimal and free up some plug space! 

Any help is much appreciated!


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## InvestInMe (Jan 21, 2010)

I got a question ,,,

I can I make a speed controller jsut leik the ones you buy for an inline fan ? I want a controller that I can wire together and jsut plug my inline fan right in it , So I dont void the warenty on my inline fan ... 
any links or picts would be greatly appreaciated Thanks


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## Johnou833 (Jan 22, 2010)

Hi all hope your well, Can anyone help me with something, id really appreciate it.
I just brought a RUCK 125 extraction fan and want to control the speed of it, I have orded a ''*POWER REGULATOR, ELECTRIC SPEED CONTROLLER (Variac)'' *from fleabay with this tech spec:_*
regulates incandescent lamps, heaters, hand drills, motors etc. via a potentiometer
Max. admissible current: 6A (constant duty: 3A), at 110V~ this corresponds to maximally 600 watt or constant duty 300 watt, respectively, or to maximally 1200 watt or constant duty 600 watt, respectively, at 230Vac
Duty cycle: 100% at 3A or 20% (max. 3 min.) at 6A, respectively*__*Control: via a firmly connected rotary potentiometer''*_​
On the ruck specification sheet it says it runs at 0.3 Amps (60 watts) Will the controller be able to run this at 0.1Amps or will it send 3Amps strait away as it says 3amps respectivly?

Sorry for the long post and lots of questions im quite new and dont want to brake things :\

Thanks


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## IAm5toned (Jan 22, 2010)

no, it will simply limit the available current to the motor.
the 3 amps is the _maximum allowable current _ for the controller to be used in a continuous duty cycle. in plain english, that means any device up to 3 amps can be used 24/7... anything greater than 3 amps but less than 6 amps can be used for up to 4.8 hours, after that, the device will overheat and fail...
so no fans that pull more than 3 amps


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## Johnou833 (Jan 23, 2010)

Ohhhhh I think I understand now, So hopefully this device will run at 0.1Amps.. thanks a lot mate


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## laughingduck (Jan 23, 2010)

Hply crap guys, I am an electrical inspector and you guys make my head hurt. lmao


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## IAm5toned (Jan 23, 2010)

laughingduck said:


> Hply crap guys, I am an electrical inspector and you guys make my head hurt. lmao


lol no shit.......


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## patlpp (Jan 23, 2010)

laughingduck said:


> Hply crap guys, I am an electrical inspector and you guys make my head hurt. lmao



This is nothing... there are posts recommending to stoners who haven't the least lick of sense, busting open breaker boxes and/or tapping into one side of 220 lines. It's getting as dangerous as meth labs.... for fucks sake.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 23, 2010)

patlpp said:


> This is nothing... there are posts recommending to stoners who haven't the least lick of sense, busting open breaker boxes and/or tapping into one side of 220 lines. It's getting as dangerous as meth labs.... for fucks sake.


ya i know. i help the ones out that seem to have sense... and talk the ones that have no clue through the proper steps to determine if they need a pro or not. i run another electrical thread as well, and i periodically check on this one since the OP abandoned it.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 23, 2010)

hey laughingduck... think of all the reinspection fees you would net if this shit was legal


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## magnus666 (Jan 23, 2010)

Just listen to IAM5toned everyone. He is accurate and knowledgable. I have similar qualifacations as IAM5toned, 14 years onthe job, journeyman, blah, blah. 5toned is on it , may be smarter then me, lol. Refer you're questions to IAM5toned and no one else. 

local 5 out.


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## laughingduck (Jan 23, 2010)

I wish there was maybe a post that showed basic schematics, but the range in this hobby goes from basic household wiring to industrial controls. makes for a pretty broad band of learning. The problem with learning on the job with this stuff is sometimes you don't get a second chance.

IamStoned: I am an industrial/ construction inspector, I make sure the contractors do it right the first time. If the county has to come twice I am looking for another job. It is a little stressful at times dealing with sparkies, and you'd be supprised at the dumb ass mistakes that even master electricians make.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 23, 2010)

i wouldnt be surprised at all, I know ive made a few along the way. the learning curve is pretty steep. in my case i was always fortunate to be around some of the most experienced guys in the trade, but once i let myself get sucked into a live 277/460 panel during a heavy wire pull, and my right hand went from b to c, you should the scar i have on my hand to this day from it. it could have been much worse, but i was lucky. still got 10 digits... 
some of the things ive seen other guys do though lol-

use a knockout set to punch holes through structural steel framing to run conduit 
fail to bond the neutral on transformers on an industrial 2000 amp service, then walk away for 20 years. when the building was acqured by a new owner, and divided in half into 2 tenant spaces, when one tenant added an additional 2000 amp service, it took quite a min to figure out why the 'new' system ground would arc off of the building steel. i still remember a helper yelling wtf the ground is hot!!!!  
install emergency lights on switched circuits
run 2 200 foot conduits from a panel underground to a parking lot, only to tie them together underground, so that there is a 400' loop with 4 90"s in it 
run 1 3/4" series conduit from each box to the next for over 300 ada fire alarm devices (pipe in the slab)
fill a 200amp panel with 20amp tandem breakers and max every circuit (42 space panel, thats 84 20 amp circuits) 

just a few... ive got hundreds


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## magnus666 (Jan 23, 2010)

Sounds like you have the same apprentices as i do . he he


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## laughingduck (Jan 23, 2010)

Oh my god, we must be dealing with the same people, that bonding the control transformer thing sets me off! I remember as a tech traceing this circuit that measure 50 - 60 vac to ground all over a plant, to find out it was one leg of a control transformer that neutral had not been bonded to ground. I get sick of the nec discussions, because everybody knows more than someone else. I have spent days in the codebook going around in circles to finally deside to use some common sense (which seems to be lacking in the trade) and tell the contractor to do it a specific way, or i won't buy it!


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 23, 2010)

patlpp said:


> This is nothing... there are posts recommending to stoners who haven't the least lick of sense, busting open breaker boxes and/or tapping into one side of 220 lines. It's getting as dangerous as meth labs.... for fucks sake.


I tend to not respond to posts where the guy is in over his head (or tell him he is)


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## 4personaluse (Jan 23, 2010)

Hello I was hoping you could give me a step by step way or a link that would help me run electrical from my house to my shed which is about 50' from my electrical box on my house.

I am stupid when it comes to electrical, I want to run 4 1000w lights each ballast pulls 9.5 amps I have 2 4" fans for exhaust and 2 oscallating wall fans 

and I fiqure I need alittle more juice for odds like watering pump,cloner,a couple of 2 tube floros. I was told to run a 50 amp breaker from my box to 8 guage wire buried underground to the shed but from there I am lost what do I hook the 3 wires to? a breaker box ? How many breakers? 2 25 amp? or is there a easier way to do this ? 

Thanks
4personaluse


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## laughingduck (Jan 23, 2010)

It sounds like you have the right plan to get the service to the shed, once there you should go to a small breaker panel. Do you have the option to operate the 1000 watt ballasts from 220? What type of timer for the lights would you like to use?


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## IgrowUgrow (Jan 23, 2010)

Does anyone know a easy place to steal a HPS from like a light pole, I have a light pole in my yard it has a bulb that looks like HPS from a distance and it looks orange at night does that mean it is a HPS because of the redish orange spectrum. How can I tell if it is a HPS light bulb or a flood light. If it is a HPS bulb how can I get the bulb out without getting electricuted and what do I do for a ballast when I get the bulb.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 23, 2010)

its a mv... it wont work right, and you'll probably get yourself killed in the process


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## IgrowUgrow (Jan 23, 2010)

well that sucks major balls I need a HPS and I cant afford one any time soon.


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 24, 2010)

4personaluse said:


> Hello I was hoping you could give me a step by step way or a link that would help me run electrical from my house to my shed which is about 50' from my electrical box on my house.
> 
> I am stupid when it comes to electrical, I want to run 4 1000w lights each ballast pulls 9.5 amps I have 2 4" fans for exhaust and 2 oscallating wall fans
> 
> ...


Please hire someone. Tell them its for a workshed


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## IAm5toned (Jan 24, 2010)

and his wire size should be #6, for an underground service.

someone didnt derate


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## sherriberry (Jan 24, 2010)

quick question...

is 12 guage wire thick enough for a 20 amp braker?

I got a QT style seimens braker that has 2 little switches that are not connected, and each says 20. 

Each also has a port for its on set of wires.

So i was going to run 2 sets of 3wire 12gague wires from it.

Just wanted to make sure this was enough... and the wire will be going about 50 ft.

Thanks.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 24, 2010)

#12 will get you 20 amps @ 50 feet all day


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## BuddhaBud (Jan 25, 2010)

hey this might be a stupid question, but i have two 115v cpu fans that are a bit too loud, and cell phone chargers (could only find 5v) didnt have the power to start it up (or i wired it backwards twice in a row, which is _slightly_ possible)
would i be able to reduce the current and consequently the fan speed and noise by wiring the two fans to one cord, or in a line?
gracias


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 25, 2010)

BuddhaBud said:


> hey this might be a stupid question, but i have two 115v cpu fans that are a bit too loud, and cell phone chargers (could only find 5v) didnt have the power to start it up (or i wired it backwards twice in a row, which is _slightly_ possible)
> would i be able to reduce the current and consequently the fan speed and noise by wiring the two fans to one cord, or in a line?
> gracias


Well you say a 115V (as in one hundred fifteen) volts? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that that fan is an AC fan. (a cell charger is going to be DC and I have no idea where the MYTH of a 12VDC cell charger came from but they do NOT exist, except for maybe an old bag phone)

If its an AC fan, you are SOL. There are a few kludge options like a router speed control or a *ceiling fan* dimmer (not a light dimmer) But the motor will hum from this.

If it IS a DC fan, then speed control is a lot easier.


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## couvan57 (Jan 25, 2010)

Hey guys, I have another thread going. I just purchased 12 1000w hps systems and i have 5 600w hps systems air cooled reflectors. Its a 50s house with electric updated in the early 80s from what i was told. Just rented it. landlord is way out of town and just purchases foreclosures. Rents em craigslist and such. I have 3 upstairs bedrooms. Running on three 20 amp breakers. Not all sockets in each room are set to same breaker kind of a hodge podge thing but what are you going to do. I want to maximize amount of lights in the bedrooms I was thinking using the 600watters up there. In the basement I have the panel with a bunch of open slots. I was thinking with advice and how to, could I run dedicated lines around my basement. Obviously when I have felt my time at this place should end, i am going to have to take everything with me. so I am hoping its easy install/uninstall. I am deathly afraid of starting a fire when im at work or even sleeping. So My goal is to add circuits to the basement. 

So if i wanted to run say 3 1000 hps, two oscillating fans, and an inline fan for cooling lights what size breaker/romex would you use.

If i wanted to run more sockets and say 2 1000 hps, two fans and the inline fan what size breaker/romex should i use. 

These are 120v ballasts.

lastly, what would you recommend for an electrical setup run right from the panel. I believe i have four slots available maybe six. 

Is this an undertaking I can handle. Thanks This thread has been awesome to read


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## wyteboi (Jan 25, 2010)

couvan57 said:


> So if i wanted to run say 3 1000 hps, two oscillating fans, and an inline fan for cooling lights what size breaker/romex would you use.


i would run a separate breaker for each 1000 your gonna run. You can use 14 gauge romex with 15 amp breakers or 12 gauge wire with 20 amp breakers.
( a 1000 watter at 120v is around 8.5 amps each, so you could cram 2 on a 20amp circuit but its better to use separate circuits)


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## BuddhaBud (Jan 25, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Well you say a 115V (as in one hundred fifteen) volts? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that that fan is an AC fan. (a cell charger is going to be DC and I have no idea where the MYTH of a 12VDC cell charger came from but they do NOT exist, except for maybe an old bag phone)
> 
> If its an AC fan, you are SOL. There are a few kludge options like a router speed control or a *ceiling fan* dimmer (not a light dimmer) But the motor will hum from this.
> 
> If it IS a DC fan, then speed control is a lot easier.


yea its AC, i wired the two fans together and im going to plug them into a speed controller
thanks!


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## Sub Zero (Jan 26, 2010)

*I just want to thank RIU and you guys contributing and answering questions on** Electrons, or how not to get between them and GROUND!!!


RIU and GOOGLE has kept me from Burning The House Down... 
Thanks Everybody... 

Now for my project, I have 3 bedroom home and all 3 rooms are on a 15 amp circuit.
I want to expand so I built this, it's plugged into my 30 amp dryer outlet.
The dryer is in the house just a hallway and a closet from the grow room, so I ordered 20' of 10 gauge 4-wire cord (yes I know it's 3-wire + ground) and 12 gauge romex 2-wire + bare ground... 
*  *
I leaned that on the web... 

I wanted 15 amps of 240 vac and 15 amps of 120 vac to power my flower room. I also wanted to control many pumps with just one timer, so I added a contactor / relay. The dark outlets are energized by the NFT-1e timer. This was fun to build, and I saved loads of money... 












*


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## IAm5toned (Jan 26, 2010)

good job.. all you need is a cover for that 6x12


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## Sub Zero (Jan 26, 2010)

Thanks, I have it... I just don't remember where the screws are...


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## sherriberry (Jan 26, 2010)

k, instead of 50ft,

100ft, 12 guage, 20 amps. 110acv. Safe?

Thanks


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## badazz911 (Jan 27, 2010)

HI! I just saw the firs picture of your electric setup and it's great! I noticed that you have lumatech electronic ballast and I read on their web page that you mustn't mount them closer then 6 inch together and not to blow air in them. Just Reminding. Maybe I'm wrong but nothing hurts if I tell you. 

My question ist: If I cutt my ballast output cable (to bulb) in half or more will I get more lumens?

SRY for my english

PEACE!


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## badazz911 (Jan 27, 2010)

hi! Me again I got my answer from lumatech and they said having a shorter wire will have no effect on Lumen output. So you don't have to bother with me! 
Regards


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## wyteboi (Jan 27, 2010)

sherriberry said:


> k, instead of 50ft,
> 
> 100ft, 12 guage, 20 amps. 110acv. Safe?
> 
> Thanks


Well when you get over 100ft you will have to upgrade to 10g wire to account for a voltage drop. (Bigballs should know exact code on that one.) I just know that on a run thats over a hundred feet you need to upgrade the wire , one notch bigger.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 27, 2010)

actually its 300 hundred feet.
it depends more on how many wires you have running together than the actual distance...
but for one circuit, #12 will get you 20 amps in any distance under 300' 
1000' for free air cable (dont try this. free air is on telephone poles)

no if your wanting 20 amps for growing purposes... you will need #10.
the rules change quite a bit when your equipment is energized for periods longer than 6 hours (what we call a continuous duty cycle)


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 27, 2010)

IAm5toned, got a couple Qs if ya don't mind.

On a 200amp service panel, is that 100 amp per phase or combined?
On a 20A 2 pole breaker, 20A per pole or 10A per pole?

On a 200A service panel, can you put in more then 200amps worth of breakers? (per code)


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## IAm5toned (Jan 27, 2010)

^^ Fail.
you derate your wire for branch circuit conductors @ 300' in normal ambient temps. (and that is actually shorter than the code requires)
temps have alot to do with voltage drop... more than you would think.
#12 will get you 20amps all day @ any distance within less than 350'

a thing to consider is that 20 amps of continuous duty will not run on #12....
continuous duty is any electrical load that is energized for a period greater than 6 hours.
since we flower @ 12/12, this is something to be seriously considered.
to find your _demand factor for a continuous duty cycle:
_multiply your max power factor (the sum of ALL connected equipments' max wattage/amperage to the circuit) bt 120% to find your demand factor (amount of power that can be used)
example:
johnny wants to run 2 1000w hps in his flower cab in the garage.
he has 120v available.
he uses one oscillating fan, one timer.
2 x 1000w lamps
2 x 60w ballast draw (the ballasts concume a small amount of power, its expressed as heat)
1 x 45w fan
1 x 15w timer
____________
2180 watts @ 120v
(P= I x E, where P = watts, I = amperage, E= voltage)
2180 watts @ 120v = 18.16666 amps (this number, the sum of all your connected devices is also known as _max power factor_)
18.16666 amps x 120% = 21.79999 amps

so for johnny to run his 2 1000w hps, he requires 21.79999 amps, which is greater than 20. his wire size should be #10 awg.............
you following me?
do you see how that by running equipment for longer than 6 hours at a time changes your electrical requirements?
pay attention, because this is one of the more common causes of grow related fires...
people add up all there wattage/amperage and then pick the closest size wire someone on an internet forumn tells them they need.
YOU need to learn the math for yourself... that way the only person to blame is you!


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## IAm5toned (Jan 27, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> IAm5toned, got a couple Qs if ya don't mind.
> 
> On a 200amp service panel, is that 100 amp per phase or combined?
> On a 20A 2 pole breaker, 20A per pole or 10A per pole?
> ...


sorry about my first post, it came off wierd, and when i edited it it somehow dbl posted....

challenge me? lol ok

200 amp panel is the maximum load rating for the panels busbars. it doesnt have shit to do with the number of phases

you can put 20,000 amps worth od breakers in a 200amp panel (if you could fit them) s long as they were rated for intermittant use. 


on any breaker, the load is determined by the connected equipment, not by the number of poles.... a 240v dryer pulls x amount of amps @ 240v, you know well that phases have shit to do with breaker rating. number of phases determine voltage, not amperage. 2 phases of 110 get you 220, 3 phases get you 208. if its an open delta then you have 208 between phase c and neutral....


now i have a question for you.

in a building with a 1500amp, 3 phase 277/460 open delta service, what color is wild leg?


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 27, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> now i have a question for you.
> 
> in a building with a 1500amp, 3 phase 277/460 open delta service, what color is wild leg?


Wasn't a challenge, just an honest inquiry. So on a 200amp panel I can pull 200amp from one phase and not worry? (I was going for an imbalanced situation)


No clue. Will NOT use anything by Wye.  The machines I work on do NOT like a wild leg (they step up 480 to about 25K, then rectified for neg DC)

Had a fun time at a new customer who had installed 480 just for the machine. But unfortunately he got a grounded leg Delta (never saw one of those before, talk about old.) He paid through the nose to get that fixed. Luckily I noticed before anything happened (other then checking rotation, I blew 2 surge of the 3 suppressors, since they were rated for 280V) That trip cut cut rather short.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 27, 2010)

lol... i just ran across an old grounded leg milling machine/drill press the other day myself. wild stuff. name plate ratings on the motor called for 3p 480, however the center taps had been changed to 240v. the boss sees the nameplate rating stamped 480... and he plugs it into a nema plug we have for a forklift charger.....lol

lets just say i have 3 motors, a control transformer, and a shitload of wiring to replace....


(ps- the wild leg is ALWAYS orange... even the bus bars are anodized  )


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## wyteboi (Jan 27, 2010)

Ok , i defiantly stand corrected, i dont know where i got the hundred foot thing. but since it is easier to explain things in a "pothead" fashion, i would say if you think you need *20* amps a hundred foot away then it would be better to use 10 wire. and if someone asked a more detailed question then they would get a more detailed answer as you just displayed.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 27, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> So on a 200amp panel I can pull 200amp from one phase and not worry? (I was going for an imbalanced situation)
> .


if your service feeders were properly sized, on paper, it would work. 
the busbars themselves are rated for whatever amperage the panelboard itself is rated for. a 200 amp single phase panel will have (2) 200 amp busbars, not (2) 100 amp busbars.

however in reality most engineers rate there services @ a balanced load, which, when dealing with a/c, allows you to reduce the ampacity of the secondary conductors on the service. so it really depends on WHO designed the system, if you wanted to pull 200 amps of a single phase.

i wouldnt try this in anywhere but an industrial enviroment... wouldnt even think about it in resi


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## serialkiller (Jan 27, 2010)

I got a fan question, I just got a new 6" vortex style fan for ventilation. I want to control it with 2 factors, time and temps. Would it be possible to use some sort of 120V relay to switch the fan and trigger it with BOTH a 120V standard wall timer as a trigger and a 12V cooling thermostat? Or if not that could I get a 120v relay and use a line voltage t-stat and wall timer and still have either/or trigger the relay?


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 27, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> if your service feeders were properly sized, on paper, it would work.
> the busbars themselves are rated for whatever amperage the panelboard itself is rated for. a 200 amp single phase panel will have (2) 200 amp busbars, not (2) 100 amp busbars.
> 
> however in reality most engineers rate there services @ a balanced load, which, when dealing with a/c, allows you to reduce the ampacity of the secondary conductors on the service. so it really depends on WHO designed the system, if you wanted to pull 200 amps of a single phase.
> ...


Now that answers it all. Thanks. Was more just an extreme example.


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## xum (Jan 27, 2010)

I got a good one for ya, I recently bought a 600 watt digital ballast that is supposed to be able to automatically switch between high pressure sodium bulbs and metal halide bulbs. Unfortunately they don't seem to make 600 watt metal halide bulbs that aren't extremely expensive compared to 600 watt high pressure sodium.

Is is possible to create my own step-down or converter so I can run a 400 watt inexpensive metal halide bulb in my 600 watt ballast, and change to a 600 watt high pressure sodium when needed?

Thanks!


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 28, 2010)

inquire with the MFG. You *might* be able to pop it in. Digitals have more control.



xum said:


> I got a good one for ya, I recently bought a 600 watt digital ballast that is supposed to be able to automatically switch between high pressure sodium bulbs and metal halide bulbs. Unfortunately they don't seem to make 600 watt metal halide bulbs that aren't extremely expensive compared to 600 watt high pressure sodium.
> 
> Is is possible to create my own step-down or converter so I can run a 400 watt inexpensive metal halide bulb in my 600 watt ballast, and change to a 600 watt high pressure sodium when needed?
> 
> Thanks!


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## wyteboi (Jan 28, 2010)

5toned or bigballs (bubbz) , I am just a mere resi guy, i know nothing about motors, ballast or even high voltage. I can make a home safe and _almost_ tell you why/how, but thats about it.
Thank you guys very much for helping out  , i am sure at least one fire was prevented with this thread.

ok, do you guys think a magnetic ballast will outlast a digital or vice verca ? Also do you think the benefits of a digital ballast would make it worth getting? I have had magnetics for many years now without ever replacing one. Is there any reason to replace a 10 year old ballast? The amps and volts are still the same as the new one next to it? 
Thanks,




wb


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## serialkiller (Jan 28, 2010)

Anyone take a stab at my question?


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## rome35 (Jan 28, 2010)

Having Electrical issues

Running 6 1000 watts with the new Lumatek ballasts on 220 V through a timer with 6 guage wire going to a 50 amp breaker. Every day the 50 amp breaker pops at start up. Once I reset it, I never have a problem the rest of the cycle. My concern is that it pops on start up every time...like some type of surge. When i test the amperage after resetting the breaker it measures 27 amps. What is happening?


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## serialkiller (Jan 28, 2010)

The amps spike at startup, either up the amperage on the breaker / circuit or you could offset 1/2 of the lights, have them come on a minute later than the other half so they dont all have the spike at once.


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## rome35 (Jan 28, 2010)

serialkiller said:


> The amps spike at startup, either up the amperage on the breaker / circuit or you could offset 1/2 of the lights, have them come on a minute later than the other half so they dont all have the spike at once.


 
I was considering that...any idea how much more amperage I would need....60 or 70 amp breaker ? Do you know of any safety issues in doing that ?


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## serialkiller (Jan 28, 2010)

rome35 said:


> I was considering that...any idea how much more amperage I would need....60 or 70 amp breaker ? Do you know of any safety issues in doing that ?


No idea, I'm really not very good with this myself so dont rely on my advice, I mean I know what I'm doing, but am not comfy offering advice on saftey / what is up to code.
Sometimes the amps can up to double at startup, I'd guess your 1000 watters are around 4 to 5 amps on 220? So for 6 lights your at 24-30 amps so during the spike you could see up to 60 amps.


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## rome35 (Jan 28, 2010)

serialkiller said:


> No idea, I'm really not very good with this myself so dont rely on my advice, I mean I know what I'm doing, but am not comfy offering advice on saftey / what is up to code.
> Sometimes the amps can up to double at startup, I'd guess your 1000 watters are around 4 to 5 amps on 220? So for 6 lights your at 24-30 amps so during the spike you could see up to 60 amps.


 
Thanks for the info


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## serialkiller (Jan 28, 2010)

Let me ask you, is 6 lights necessary? You could you save yourself a lot of money by running them on a flipflop (only 3 lights run at a time) so you have 3 ballasts running 6 lights.


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## rome35 (Jan 28, 2010)

serialkiller said:


> Let me ask you, is 6 lights necessary? You could you save yourself a lot of money by running them on a flipflop (only 3 lights run at a time) so you have 3 ballasts running 6 lights.


Not sure all girls would get enough light with only 3 on at a time, running on an 8 week cylce


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## rome35 (Jan 28, 2010)

rome35 said:


> Not sure all girls would get enough light with only 3 on at a time, running on an 8 week cylce


 
And Lumatek claims they have a "soft start up" technology which should avoid this from happening


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## gumball (Jan 28, 2010)

serialkiller said:


> I got a fan question, I just got a new 6" vortex style fan for ventilation. I want to control it with 2 factors, time and temps. Would it be possible to use some sort of 120V relay to switch the fan and trigger it with BOTH a 120V standard wall timer as a trigger and a 12V cooling thermostat? Or if not that could I get a 120v relay and use a line voltage t-stat and wall timer and still have either/or trigger the relay?


 hey serialkiller, i seen your question and it spurred my curiousity because I have thought to have the fan temp controlled. easiest thing I found quick was a programmable thermostat with an outlet on it. it is used for window air conditioners and space heaters, but should work for you. just plug it into a timer and you have a time & temp controlled timer system. I also found the second link, looked pretty good too. hope this helps.

http://www.westsidewholesale.com/lux-5-2-electronic-programmable-outlet-thermostat-for-window-ac-and-portable-space-heaters.html?cm_mmc=googlebase-_-na-_-na-_-na&cvsfa=1870&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=393830333330


http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/controls.shtml


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## bmiquet (Jan 28, 2010)

I have a strange electrical mystery that I am sure is easy to solve for someone with a bit more experience than I.

*Brief Background*
- I have a 100amp box with 8 spaces for breakers
- a few months ago I had a short putting together an outlet that knocked out half the box and so every second horizontal line works. I managed to source this problem and determined I need to upgrade the old aluminum wiring running prior to the box. It will get done in 60 days when I have extra funds, but is worth mentioning.

yes yes
no no
yes yes
no no

that is how my circuit box has been operating for weeks now, just fine

- I have been happily living off half the box running 7 circuits from 4 spaces and everything is working fine, for now

*What Happened Today*
- one of my circuits was for a light switch connected to two lights (it was wired in series I will attach a picture soon)
- this circuit the wire got really really hot so I disconnected the hot wire
- the wire was still hot??????? meaning it was getting something via ground or white wire
- I disconnected with white wire and it sparked unexpectedly

*Current Situation*
- all 8 of the breaker spots are now working??????
- the area at the bottom of the box where the white wires connect has a charge of 120v. I assume this is NOT NORMAL and is the source of the problem
- a circuit (of lights) connected to a breaker in off position is working?? Note: this circuit historically tripped but now works, leading me to believe my wiring for the lights is incorrect and was the source of the hot wire problem
- all of my outlets (for all 8, although I only tested a handful) are saying ground/hot reverse, but they work if I plug something into them

*Any insight is appreciated as I am concerned the bottom part of my box is live which is odd?*


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## Sub Zero (Jan 28, 2010)

I have a question that has been bothering me, been looking here and there, and still can't get a precise answer or formula.
I keep reading that electric motors use more amps at start-up then under normal operating speed or load.
My thoughts say yes, I know a motor under heavy load or failing will draw more amps, yes?
So a motor that is not energized draws no amps, but to get spinning draws more amps then normal load amps, yes?

YES I'M MEDICATED... 

I'm thinking these amp start-up loads are different for each type of motor, yes no?

OK, the real question I have, I have 5 Active Aqua Magnetic 25 watt 400gph pumps.

So normal operating amps are .2083, what do you think this pump would draw to get started???

I'm sure I'll read this in the morning, start laughing, and BUY MORE PRE 98, Luv it! 

Thanks in advance, + rep to all who have the answer.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 28, 2010)

rome35 said:


> Having Electrical issues
> 
> Running 6 1000 watts with the new Lumatek ballasts on 220 V through a timer with 6 guage wire going to a 50 amp breaker. Every day the 50 amp breaker pops at start up. Once I reset it, I never have a problem the rest of the cycle. My concern is that it pops on start up every time...like some type of surge. When i test the amperage after resetting the breaker it measures 27 amps. What is happening?


you need to get a 40 amp 'HACR" rated breaker to fix that... your only pulling roughly 29 amps @ 220.
your 50 amp has a worn element, thats why its tripping every time the lights kick on. the 'HACR' stands for _Heating Air Conditioning Refridgeration. _these are also known as inductive loads.... the hacr rated breaker has a dual element for inrush loads.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 28, 2010)

bmiquet said:


> I have a strange electrical mystery that I am sure is easy to solve for someone with a bit more experience than I.
> 
> *Brief Background*
> - I have a 100amp box with 8 spaces for breakers
> ...


you have a direct short on your service entry conductors... you need a pro before your house burns down. you should disconnect the power to the panel immediatly and contact a professional.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 28, 2010)

xum said:


> I got a good one for ya, I recently bought a 600 watt digital ballast that is supposed to be able to automatically switch between high pressure sodium bulbs and metal halide bulbs. Unfortunately they don't seem to make 600 watt metal halide bulbs that aren't extremely expensive compared to 600 watt high pressure sodium.
> 
> Is is possible to create my own step-down or converter so I can run a 400 watt inexpensive metal halide bulb in my 600 watt ballast, and change to a 600 watt high pressure sodium when needed?
> 
> Thanks!


yes, but only using magnetic ballasts.
but i think your looking in the wrong places for 600w MH... because every professional lighting supplier i just checked (besides hydro/horticulture stores.. NEVER buy lights form hydro shops, unless you like paying 3x what there worth) has MH lamps for cheaper than HPS.....


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## IAm5toned (Jan 28, 2010)

Sub Zero said:


> I have a question that has been bothering me, been looking here and there, and still can't get a precise answer or formula.
> I keep reading that electric motors use more amps at start-up then under normal operating speed or load.
> My thoughts say yes, I know a motor under heavy load or failing will draw more amps, yes?
> So a motor that is not energized draws no amps, but to get spinning draws more amps then normal load amps, yes?
> ...


not enuf info to answer.... 
a pic of the nameplate would bemuch better


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## Luv2Gro (Jan 28, 2010)

i was wondering if i can use a standard 15a timer for a 400w hps... just plug timer into power strip, and ballast into timer, correct??


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## Sub Zero (Jan 29, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> not enuf info to answer....
> a pic of the nameplate would bemuch better


You mean like a aluminum plate stamped with all the info you would see on a 1/2 horse power motor made in the USA, sorry these are made in China all plastic. All mine are under water so don't know if there is some additional info. http://www.hydrofarm.com/pb_detail.php?itemid=7286


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## greenmachine1 (Jan 29, 2010)

I am wanting to use solar panels to run my grow. Using a SL pioneer IV t5 lights, and small fans, bubbleponics system. Using the power usage chart, if using it right. The lights only are pulling 144kw in 30 days. Now what i am wanting to do is. Get small solar setup, maybe something under 50w panels, or smaller watt array. From what i have read and watched on you tube. Im stoned trying to get this to make sense, having trouble. Ok Simple Solar Panel, down to battery charge controller, then to battery setup, onto dc to ac inverter, then to atleast my lights, or just lights and bubble setup (air & h20 pump, sm fans). Wanting to eliminate power company concern on power jump. going to be running lights 20hrs day for autoflower babies. Now what i would like you to help me with is determining how many solar panel watts im going to need to do this. I keep getting all turned around trying to convert average and all the above with all these solar sites. I figured a 45watt(3x15w) panel and 2 batteries, with 500watt inverter would work. But i would like someone that understands the #'s lil better to tell me that it will work before i buy it and waste my money. If this is way to scattered and you cant understand it PM me and i will try and do better. Thx in advance for devoting your time and brain into this wonderful hobby....


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## IAm5toned (Jan 29, 2010)

Sub Zero said:


> You mean like a aluminum plate stamped with all the info you would see on a 1/2 horse power motor made in the USA, sorry these are made in China all plastic. All mine are under water so don't know if there is some additional info. http://www.hydrofarm.com/pb_detail.php?itemid=7286


actually it could be just a sticker... like the one shown in the pic in the link you posted. the pumps were manufactured for sale in Cali.... so they have nameplates. you prolly pulled them off tho im guessin 

the reason i say i need the faceplate is i need the power factor of the motor to calculate the inrush. without being there with an ammeter to see what the true power vs. apparent power is, theres no way i can calculate the inrush. but with a 25w motor, a good guess would be about 4 amps per motor for a duration of .02 seconds


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## IAm5toned (Jan 29, 2010)

greenmachine1 said:


> I am wanting to use solar panels to run my grow. Using a SL pioneer IV t5 lights, and small fans, bubbleponics system. Using the power usage chart, if using it right. The lights only are pulling 144kw in 30 days. Now what i am wanting to do is. Get small solar setup, maybe something under 50w panels, or smaller watt array. From what i have read and watched on you tube. Im stoned trying to get this to make sense, having trouble. Ok Simple Solar Panel, down to battery charge controller, then to battery setup, onto dc to ac inverter, then to atleast my lights, or just lights and bubble setup (air & h20 pump, sm fans). Wanting to eliminate power company concern on power jump. going to be running lights 20hrs day for autoflower babies. Now what i would like you to help me with is determining how many solar panel watts im going to need to do this. I keep getting all turned around trying to convert average and all the above with all these solar sites. I figured a 45watt(3x15w) panel and 2 batteries, with 500watt inverter would work. But i would like someone that understands the #'s lil better to tell me that it will work before i buy it and waste my money. If this is way to scattered and you cant understand it PM me and i will try and do better. Thx in advance for devoting your time and brain into this wonderful hobby....


seriously.... you could run 100 t5's 24/7 for a decade and the power company wouldnt care... you want to spend 5 figures on a solar setup that would save you maybe 1.50 a month in power... a floro operation doesnt use shit for power... your tv pulls a good _ten times_ the amount of power those lights do. just a thought


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## rome35 (Jan 29, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> you need to get a 40 amp 'HACR" rated breaker to fix that... your only pulling roughly 29 amps @ 220.
> your 50 amp has a worn element, thats why its tripping every time the lights kick on. the 'HACR' stands for _Heating Air Conditioning Refridgeration. _these are also known as inductive loads.... the hacr rated breaker has a dual element for inrush loads.


 
Thanks a bunch Iam5toned I will give that a try .


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## Maripan (Jan 29, 2010)

Thank you for being available for Q&A. I need to cool an enclosed room (that is, no window). Do you recommend an evaporative cooler when the room air it cools will be pulled through a light reflector in a grow tent? I am concerned such air may ruin the light bulb. Are there any other safe alternatives to maintain a 70 degree room that has no ducts or windows to the outside. The air pulled through the light reflector goes to the attic.

Maripan


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## greensister (Jan 29, 2010)

*I hope you can get to this question.* 

I have a couple of electrical outlet timers. I also use CFLs. You are not suppost to use timers (that are not specified for fluoros) for fluoros because the trickle of current will harm the ballasts. 

*My question is:*
If i hook up a surge protector to the timer (which is not specified for fluoros), and have a fan and an incandescent bulb plugged into it (closest to the breaker switch) will this protect against the trickle when the timer has cut the power to the surge protector?

I appreciate your time.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 29, 2010)

that is only with solid state timers (digital)
if it is an electromechanical timer (mechanical) you will be fine...
as far as plugging in all that stuff to the surge protector, it wont make a lick of difference. the 'trickle' that bleeds through a digital timer (which is nothing but an optical relay) will go through the ballast everytime, as the ballast will have the path of least resistance.

if your seriously worried about trickle currents harming your ballasts, try using the timer to run a rated relay to control the lights, instead of running the lights through the timer.


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## lostsoul420 (Jan 29, 2010)

hey guys im looking to start a DIY solar panel system to support a 600watt light with accessories. Soil so no need for hydro plug ins. 

Basically i need to know how many voltz i would need to support this size grow. Also what kind of batteries would i need to be charged up enough to support this amount of wattage useage.

+rep for viable information. 

peace


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## greenmachine1 (Jan 29, 2010)

thx for the info on solar, and my floros. The reason i freaked out a lil is because. This months bill came in, and i have been slowing running my lights. Bringing them on a lil more each week, with the timer. My bill jumped double from last month, and i thought it was because of my lights being on more. It is about time for my seeds to be here. So i have almost got my light schedule on full swing now, close to 20 hrs a day. Are you sure i have nothing to worry about with a 4 tube t5? Its my first grow on my own, and inside. So i am starting to get a lil paranoid about the whole thing. One more thing i was wondering. Isn't most indoor door receptacles 110v? and my light says 120v, the inline fans i want are 120v also. Is it ok to run them in normal outlet?

thx


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## greensister (Jan 29, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> that is only with solid state timers (digital)
> if it is an electromechanical timer (mechanical) you will be fine...
> as far as plugging in all that stuff to the surge protector, it wont make a lick of difference. the 'trickle' that bleeds through a digital timer (which is nothing but an optical relay) will go through the ballast everytime, as the ballast will have the path of least resistance.
> 
> if your seriously worried about trickle currents harming your ballasts, try using the timer to run a rated relay to control the lights, instead of running the lights through the timer.


As far at the path of least resistance goes, then the trickle should go to the LED in the switch of the surge protector first, then the incandescent light which is plugged in closest to the switch, then the fan which is next to it, then the CFLs. 
I dont know much about a timer on a rated relay, thats why i purchased timers. They are both electronic.


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## bmiquet (Jan 29, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> you have a direct short on your service entry conductors... you need a pro before your house burns down. you should disconnect the power to the panel immediatly and contact a professional.


Thank you for the insight. I have disconnected the entire panel and I am running on backup circuits I have from another part of my property. Not ideal, but it will work for a while.

The root of my problem still exists. Due to the location of my panel, hiring a pro isn't as easy as it sounds and is not a solution at this time. Can this challenge not be overcome with a little education and further understanding of the problem?

What does "direct short on your service entry conductors" mean if you were describing to a 15year old? Can I not trace the line or take apart the panel and put it back together disconnected and fix the problem that way?

Any further insight is appreciated.


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## Luv2Gro (Jan 29, 2010)

i have an older 400w light with magnetic ballast... the wires on the ballast that connect the cap to starter to transformer are getting a little brittle... my question, is this something i need to be concerned about?? i mean there is obviously a lot of heat so it seems logical that insulation would turn hard over a period of time but just wanting to be safe rather than sorry.


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## Sub Zero (Jan 29, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> actually it could be just a sticker... like the one shown in the pic in the link you posted. the pumps were manufactured for sale in Cali.... so they have nameplates. you prolly pulled them off tho im guessin
> 
> the reason i say i need the faceplate is i need the power factor of the motor to calculate the inrush. without being there with an ammeter to see what the true power vs. apparent power is, theres no way i can calculate the inrush. but with a 25w motor, a good guess would be about 4 amps per motor for a duration of .02 seconds


Thank you very much, I'll be changing res this Saturday morning, I'll have a look for the sticker. I'm sure it's there, I just don't recall it...


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## IAm5toned (Jan 29, 2010)

greensister said:


> As far at the path of least resistance goes, then the trickle should go to the LED in the switch of the surge protector first, then the incandescent light which is plugged in closest to the switch, then the fan which is next to it, then the CFLs.
> I dont know much about a timer on a rated relay, thats why i purchased timers. They are both electronic.


no, it wont. the path of least resistance will be through the ballast. a ballast has zero resistance at low voltage


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## oldpotter (Jan 29, 2010)

I've got acreage in the middle of nowhere and have a power shed. I need to get 120v 60 amp. to a covert grow op over 1000 feet away. can I run an underground single alum cable for 120v? place a grounding rod at the location and only need one wire? dont need 240v and need to bury the wire un-noticed with my backhoe. what size alum wire would I need for 1000feet @60 amps? you are awsome for helping everyone. thanks for any help you can offer.
oldpotter


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## IAm5toned (Jan 29, 2010)

dont bury aluminum wire. it wont last.
but if you must know... to run 1000" underground you would need 500mcm aluminum to get 60 amps because of the voltage drop.
for copper, you could almost get away with 4/0, but really and truly you need 250mcm.
1000' is a long way to run wire underground as well... code says u need a box every 300' foot.

Voltage Drop Calculator

edit/note:
on the calculator it says enter one half the total distance of the circuit. the total distance of the circuit is the length of the hot + the length of the neutral, as current travels up one wire and returns on the other... since your running the cable 1000' foot, 1/2 the total length is 1000'....


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## pityrules (Jan 29, 2010)

PS Even if you have basic around the home electrical questions, shoot em my way.[/QUOTE]

Thank you kind person! I am an R.N., a property manager and a grower for personal use, and I definitely appreciate when others want to share their knowledge to reduce harm.

I think that you have inspired me to start my own thread offering assistance with medically related questions!


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## haze901 (Jan 30, 2010)

hey guys i gotta wire up a 6m x 6m granny flat with 1x light circut, 1x power circut and a oven circut. the distance is 35 - 40m run from the msb, unsure what size cable to run here. i mean if i run 10mm sub mains to it it will be overkill but wont have any probs and will have room for expansion. i will have 2x 20a and a 10a circuit thats 50a there in circut rating and you prob wouldnt want to pull 50a out of a 6mm wire. but in reality the granny flat will not be drawing that much current. it will only have a handful of gpo's and a couple of lights and an oven. hot water and stove cook top are gas. what do you recommend? i am talking 240v Ac power here too.


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## haze901 (Jan 30, 2010)

how come i cant see my posts after i make a reply


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## Luv2Gro (Jan 30, 2010)

hey pity, i have a 400w magnetic ballast... i was inspecting it and noticed the wires are a little brittle... is this normal since they obviously get hot being attached to and running next to the ballast?? i think i'm alrite but would like another opinion... anybody???


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 30, 2010)

lostsoul420 said:


> hey guys im looking to start a DIY solar panel system to support a 600watt light with accessories. Soil so no need for hydro plug ins.
> 
> Basically i need to know how many voltz i would need to support this size grow. Also what kind of batteries would i need to be charged up enough to support this amount of wattage useage.
> 
> ...


600W? Get 3-4 times that of solar power. cloudy days, shorter winter days, latitude position on the planet, charger inefficiencies, inverter inefficiencies, etc. monocrysataline (sp) do better with watts per sq ft, but amorphous do better with shade.

Volts doesn't matter. the battery bank (is an off grid or back up system is used) the charger and inverter will do all of that.

as far as batteries..... a lot.
600W (plus the ballast overhead of 75w) so 675W for 12 hours
675 x 12 hours = 8100 watts
round up for issues and such to 10000watts
so for 12 hours of light... @ 12VDC batteries, that would be 12 batteries of a 70AH ratting. (and thats @ a full discharge)

(or any combo giving the 12x70AH)


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 30, 2010)

greensister said:


> As far at the path of least resistance goes, then the trickle should go to the LED in the switch of the surge protector first, then the incandescent light which is plugged in closest to the switch, then the fan which is next to it, then the CFLs.
> I dont know much about a timer on a rated relay, thats why i purchased timers. They are both electronic.


the surge suppressor light is most likely a neon bulb.

If the timer is electromechanical it should have a tiny click as the relay closes.


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 30, 2010)

Luv2Gro said:


> i have an older 400w light with magnetic ballast... the wires on the ballast that connect the cap to starter to transformer are getting a little brittle... my question, is this something i need to be concerned about?? i mean there is obviously a lot of heat so it seems logical that insulation would turn hard over a period of time but just wanting to be safe rather than sorry.


Replace it if ya can. a few layers of heat shrink tubing will do good too (leave the old crumbling stuff in place.)

Electrical tape is not a good choice. The insulation is that way because of heat and electrical tape will just 'ooze' and be a mess (oh how I hate electrical tape after a year)


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 30, 2010)

Happy to help (I'm no eletrician, but know my stuff, and know when I don't know it; aka: no ego)

I prefer a magnetic since they are fixable. Only 2 or 3 parts. Igniter and cap are cheap and the ballast (x-former) being the high dollar item.

As far as longevity, tough to say. Digitals are still new. High bay mag's can last years and years. Keeping then cool is going to be the key (look at the post about brittle insulation, that heat related)
If its running, let it do its thing.



wyteboi said:


> 5toned or bigballs (bubbz) , I am just a mere resi guy, i know nothing about motors, ballast or even high voltage. I can make a home safe and _almost_ tell you why/how, but thats about it.
> Thank you guys very much for helping out  , i am sure at least one fire was prevented with this thread.
> 
> ok, do you guys think a magnetic ballast will outlast a digital or vice verca ? Also do you think the benefits of a digital ballast would make it worth getting? I have had magnetics for many years now without ever replacing one. Is there any reason to replace a 10 year old ballast? The amps and volts are still the same as the new one next to it?
> ...


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 30, 2010)

Get a second timer and run 1/2 on each. Stager the start by 2 minutes. its an inrush prob.



rome35 said:


> Having Electrical issues
> 
> Running 6 1000 watts with the new Lumatek ballasts on 220 V through a timer with 6 guage wire going to a 50 amp breaker. Every day the 50 amp breaker pops at start up. Once I reset it, I never have a problem the rest of the cycle. My concern is that it pops on start up every time...like some type of surge. When i test the amperage after resetting the breaker it measures 27 amps. What is happening?


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## IAm5toned (Jan 30, 2010)

I also prefer magnetic ballasts over digital.
heres why- 
i have a 19 yr old magnetic ballast. it works just as good now as the day it was first installed.
it was used on a photo cell switch (on during dark hours) for 18 years, everyday.
for the past 14 months or so, it has been used for 24/7 mother lighting, except for 2-3 days when i moved last nov.
show me one digital ballast that will last that long with no issues.....


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## Sjerpsy (Jan 30, 2010)

Just a random household Question....my 8 rec room pot lights are setup on 3 dimmers. 2-4-2. Out of the three only one actually dims,the other two are on/off only but still turn the lights on/off.I replaced one of the dimmers and no luck. At this point its not worth cutting any drywall just to make them dim but it was nice when they worked properly!?


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## IAm5toned (Jan 30, 2010)

sounds like you have cfls running on a dimmer......


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## Sjerpsy (Jan 30, 2010)

50 Watt Halogen Phillips Flood.Everything worked fine for the first few years and stopped all of a sudden at some point a while back.The house is only 7-8 years old.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 30, 2010)

by chance, did you replace the one dimmer that actually worked by accident, instead of replacing one of the bad ones?
i know that is a silly question but the dimmer/switch is what controls the lamps. the fixtures themselves, are just fancy connection points with reflectors for the lamps... the switch does all the 'work' as far as controlling the lights. if you lost the capability to dim, than the problem is definitly in the box.

now if your lights come on for a short period, then cutoff for no apparent reason, most recessed can lights have thermal overload switches built into them, so that if the lamp gets too hot, the fixture will cut off. if the power is shut off for 10-15mins, usually the fixture will cool down enough so that thelight comes back on... if thats the case, either get R20 floods (there cooler) instead of PAR halogen lamps, or switch to a lower wattage lamp. 

but if what is happening is that the lights will come on or come off, but wont dim, either you have bad dimmers, cfl lamps installed (floro's do not dim, unless you have a special ballast with special wiring) or your replacement dimmer is not wired correctly.

some solid state dimmers (digital, often have LED indicators) are line/load sensitive, in other words, there is a specific connection for the 120v incoming line, and a specific connection for the load that is to be switched. some of these dimmers also require a neutral, and some of them require that at least one working lamp be installed on the circuit. so if your 4 lamp switch is working, and your 2 2lamp switches are not, check to make sure you got working lamps in those fixtures before you tear your walls apart.


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## Sjerpsy (Jan 30, 2010)

I apprenticed for an Electrical company for a few years so I know enough about electrical and have installed my fair share of pot lights in my time.I now insulate houses and am fully aware of the heat shut off,but thats not the problem..everythings fine that way, they just don't dim.
Heres a few pics of the box itself.All i had to do to replace the dimmer was take the Marrette off of the two connection points coming in/out of the dimmer.The dimmer on the left is the one that works.and is the first "2"-4-2.No leds on the dimmers,just simple sliders.All the lamps have been checked and are all working(and are the same as the lamps that are dimming)Can you break down the wiring in the box from these pics?


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## IAm5toned (Jan 30, 2010)

Sjerpsy said:


> I apprenticed for an Electrical company for a few years so I know enough about electrical and have installed my fair share of pot lights in my time.I now insulate houses and am fully aware of the heat shut off,but thats not the problem..everythings fine that way, they just don't dim.
> Heres a few pics of the box itself.All i had to do to replace the dimmer was take the Marrette off of the two connection points coming in/out of the dimmer.The dimmer on the left is the one that works.and is the first "2"-4-2.No leds on the dimmers,just simple sliders.All the lamps have been checked and are all working(and are the same as the lamps that are dimming)Can you break down the wiring in the box from these pics?


the wiring is pretty simple.. i see one line coming in, and 3 switch legs going out, tied to 3 dimmers.
the first pic of the dimmer nameplate is out of focus, i cant read it.
i notice the one switch on the far right appears to be missing a jumper that is installed on the 2 left hand switches.

ps- i was able to pull the model number off of one of those pics, lutron skylark s-600

are those lights on 3 way switches?


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## Sub Zero (Jan 30, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> not enuf info to answer....
> a pic of the nameplate would bemuch better


Here you go, I hope it's enough info for you...


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## Sjerpsy (Jan 30, 2010)

No 3 ways. Yea i couldn't get the writing to focus for some reason. There is 1 feed on the far left that jumps to the dimmers then from the dimmers back out to the lights.The neutrals are all connected and everything is grounded.I'm assuming its something to do with the pot lights because if all these Marrettes are good and tight....there shouldn't be anything wrong with the wiring in the box?!??


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## IAm5toned (Jan 30, 2010)

Sjerpsy said:


> No 3 ways. Yea i couldn't get the writing to focus for some reason. There is 1 feed on the far left that jumps to the dimmers then from the dimmers back out to the lights.The neutrals are all connected and everything is grounded.I'm assuming its something to do with the pot lights because if all these Marrettes are good and tight....there shouldn't be anything wrong with the wiring in the box?!??


the wiring in the box looks fine.(edit:- and i say it is fine, because you said before the lights come on or off, but do not dim. so you have a circuit there, its just not being controlled as desired. logic says its a problem with the controller, ie dimmer)
you need to go through a process of elimination to determine the problem. you could start by taking the one dimmer that you know works, disconnecting the lights from it, and then trying it on one of the two circuits your having a problem with. if it works then, you know its a problem with the dimmers, if it still behaves the same way and turns on and off but does not dim, than it will be a problem with the fixtures. troubleshooting is a pain in the ass but the trick to it is starting at one point and eleminating all possibilities before moving on to the next point, which is exactly what i did by asking all the questions up to this point. so weve eliminated all possibilities (wrong lamps, bad lamps, 3 ways, power being on.) besides the switches themselves, the wiring leading to the fixtures, and the fixtures themselves. i do not think it is a problem with the wiring, if it was, they wouldnt be coming on or off when you try it from the switch, and because the fixture itself is such a simple device, my instincts tell me the problem is going to be with the dimmers switches themselves. so try taking the one you know works, and try it on one of the circuits your having problems with, and go from there.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 30, 2010)

Sub Zero said:


> Here you go, I hope it's enough info for you...


2.56 amps x however many pumps you have.


are you having problems with the pumps kicking a breaker/gfci? try using a motor starter....


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## Sub Zero (Jan 30, 2010)

Thank you very much again... 3 right now, I'm going to be running a total of 5
Aero/NFT style. I've been hearing around here on RIU motors can draw 5 to 8
times normal load to start up. 
This worried me so I built a contactor / relay with 4 outlets; I didn't want to burn up the relay in my 15 amp cycle timer, to much money


----------



## ireaddd (Jan 30, 2010)

okay, say I need to wire together three to four cfl sockets to plug into the same cordfor a comp case.. how can I do this cheaply and not risk fire?


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## Sub Zero (Jan 30, 2010)

Is there a Definite Purpose Contactor out there, that doesn't sound like a hammer hitting plastic? Christ I can't sleep, every 4 min. WHAM! and 1 min. after that BAM!
You try to get back to sleep at 4 AM


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## IAm5toned (Jan 30, 2010)

oh you want a silent motor starter eh...
well have i got the thing for you:

CLICK ME!

the damn things are almost silent.. its creepy! expensive, but bad ass


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## Sub Zero (Jan 31, 2010)

I guess I forgot to mention, it also has to be cheap like me...


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## IAm5toned (Jan 31, 2010)

silent doen not equal cheap.... you could get a rated ice cube relay for like 20-25$, but it will still click. nowhere near as loud as a contactor tho


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## i81two (Jan 31, 2010)

I grow inn detached garage where my main breaker is 100amp, the next box is on my house and it has 100amp. I just found out (due to a trippid breaker) that i have a solo breaker in the back of my house that also is 100amp. Should i change that one to a 125amp and if so do i need to turn power off at the green box.


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## outhouse1999 (Jan 31, 2010)

how do i wire a thermostat to a humidistat and the to a dual outlet while taking my power from a single outlet? i want to use this to control intake and exhaust fans


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## IAm5toned (Jan 31, 2010)

i81two said:


> I grow inn detached garage where my main breaker is 100amp, the next box is on my house and it has 100amp. I just found out (due to a trippid breaker) that i have a solo breaker in the back of my house that also is 100amp. Should i change that one to a 125amp and if so do i need to turn power off at the green box.


change it too a 125 only if you want to burn your house down.... the 100 kicked for a reason.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 31, 2010)

outhouse1999 said:


> how do i wire a thermostat to a humidistat and the to a dual outlet while taking my power from a single outlet? i want to use this to control intake and exhaust fans


that would depend on many things, mainly how you wanted the system to work.

the easiest way would be to parallel the load side of all your controls onto the switch leg of the fan circuit.


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## BoosteD (Jan 31, 2010)

anyone know about exhausting a grow room out of a houses central air exhaust?


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## CrackerJax (Jan 31, 2010)

Simply find the return duct and tap in.


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## Sub Zero (Jan 31, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> silent doen not equal cheap.... you could get a rated ice cube relay for like 20-25$, but it will still click. nowhere near as loud as a contactor tho


That's not a bad price... and a good idea... thanks for the tip...


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## Sub Zero (Jan 31, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> 2.56 amps x however many pumps you have.
> 
> 
> are you having problems with the pumps kicking a breaker/gfci? try using a motor starter....


How did you come up with 2.56 amps???
I like to know how things work...


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## BehindYou (Jan 31, 2010)

Sjerpsy said:


> Just a random household Question....my 8 rec room pot lights are setup on 3 dimmers. 2-4-2. Out of the three only one actually dims,the other two are on/off only but still turn the lights on/off.I replaced one of the dimmers and no luck. At this point its not worth cutting any drywall just to make them dim but it was nice when they worked properly!?



The yellow wirenut is the hot line coming in. The hot is then ran to the dimmer and the switch leg goes to the light. Looking at the switch the lutron switch is rated 600 watts but less with the 3 in the same can. The 2 dimmers that are working as switches are most likely bad. U can turn power off at the breaker and move the switch leg from a one of the switches that do t dim to the one that does to prove the wiring but shit the dimmer is bad. As I said the dimmer is rated 600w so u could move the other 2 lights that don't dimm to the switch that works and not have a problem with overloading. 
With dimmers please turn power off before working oN them. Many will fry if u don't. Hope this helps I have used many a lutron and worked as an electrical engineer using the product.


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## BehindYou (Jan 31, 2010)

Sub Zero said:


> How did you come up with 2.56 amps???
> I like to know how things work...


IDK but the pic shows .4 amps. Starting current or inrush current can be 6-9 x the rated. The use of a motor starter WILL NOT reduce the inrush but it's a small motor the spins up quick. If u have a problem with breakers tripping u will need to stagger the startup of the motors. The international electrical code allows the loading of the circuitbreaker to 80% of it's rating. When calculating the load 1.5x the largest load pluss the reamining load. 
Starters and contactors are used to switch load when the actual switch wouldn't carry it.


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## IAm5toned (Jan 31, 2010)

Sub Zero said:


> How did you come up with 2.56 amps???
> I like to know how things work...


locked rotor current/motor slip
google it. i cant explain it lol.. way to complicated for riu


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## IAm5toned (Jan 31, 2010)

BehindYou said:


> Starters and contactors are used to switch load when the actual switch wouldn't carry it.


thats funny, i thought the starter was an current limiting device... hence the heaters.
ps, and i thought a contactor was a switch... just a remote one. 

but what would i know.


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## BehindYou (Jan 31, 2010)

outhouse1999 said:


> how do i wire a thermostat to a humidistat and the to a dual outlet while taking my power from a single outlet? i want to use this to control intake and exhaust fans


If u want toturn on the fans on high humid or temp then run power from the single outlet to the the temp and humid switches, tie the output of the switches together and wire it to the quad outlet. 
The switches will need to be rated for the current and voltage your using. If you want the fans to turn on when both temp and humid are high wire together in series.


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## BehindYou (Jan 31, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> thats funny, i thought the starter was an current limiting device... hence the heaters.
> ps, and i thought a contactor was a switch... just a remote one.
> 
> but what would i know.



The overloads or heaters in a starter are to open the contactor at the predetermined level not reduce it. In 3 phase u can use a reduced voltage starter, a y delta, or a vfd.


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## Sub Zero (Jan 31, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> locked rotor current/motor slip
> google it. i cant explain it lol.. way to complicated for riu


 THANKS


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## Sub Zero (Jan 31, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> locked rotor current/motor slip
> google it. i cant explain it lol.. way to complicated for riu


 SHIT! way to complicated to understand under the influence...


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## BehindYou (Jan 31, 2010)

Sub Zero said:


> THANKS



Shit been doing EE for years. Locked rotor is just that the current the motor will pull if the rotor ( spinning part ) is not allowed to spin. The slip is the differance in the motor running at no load vrs full load. The motor is listed as fla ( full load amps ) when the motor is operated at it's capacity it will spin a little slower than with no load. As the load is increased the current demand increases.

The pump pic shows it as internally protected, it has the overload built in so it does not need the external overload of a starter.


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## laughingduck (Jan 31, 2010)

I love you guys! It reminds me of when I had a job.


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## laughingduck (Jan 31, 2010)

Oh yea, and when I had to tell a EE how a start stop circuit works.


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## BehindYou (Jan 31, 2010)

LOL. some don't get it some do. Thanks LD.


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## sherriberry (Jan 31, 2010)

i just had a seimens 150 main breaker go bad.

first off.... can i replace it without dying?

second, can i replace it with a 200 instead?

the seimens box says 150 inside it, but ive since added higher level regular breakers, so i think the 150 is about to reach its peak anyway.

thanks


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## BehindYou (Jan 31, 2010)

Wow. Not to common for cb to go bad. The 150 size is Installed to protect the wire feeding the panel. 
If you install a larger 200 you may be opening a can of worms. 
The panel needs to be rated for 200 amps, the wiring to the panel needs to support the added load as well as the transformer that supplies power to the panel (owned by the elec company most likely). Most comercial panels are 225amp but the main can't exceed the bus rating. What size wire serves the panel? Is it copper or aluminum? 
As for a self install, that's depends on your ability.

I'm stomping on someonez post. Sorry let the electrician guide you.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 1, 2010)

Realize that electricity is quite dangerous.....it sure isn't plumbing....where if you mess up, you just get wet.

Replacing a main breaker means doing it hot. Rules say, you must hire an electrician for that (common sense really). 

But if you decide to do it urself. Oh, ur panel should tell you its rating (150-200) Do not try and cheat that rating. 

Guidelines:

Always wear shoes (sounds like a no brainer but u'd be surprised)

Tape the shaft of ur screwdrivers with electrical black tape and leave only the tip exposed. When I jerked wire for a few years, I taped every screwdriver I owned after watching a buddy accidentally jump 480..... you don't forget those lessons.

Don't get stoned before you work on electrical equipment.


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 1, 2010)

BoosteD said:


> anyone know about exhausting a grow room out of a houses central air exhaust?


Your not exhausting it, just recirculating it.

And tapping into a chimney has to be done right to keep the draft running right.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 1, 2010)

Actually, a central A/C unit will dispel hot air and recirculate the cooler air. It separates them. 
Chimney? Is that what you call it in ur country? 

Cut into ur duct at a 45 degree angle going with the flow of exhaust air....u'll be fine. Ur hot air will be released outside.


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## sherriberry (Feb 1, 2010)

BehindYou said:


> Wow. Not to common for cb to go bad. The 150 size is Installed to protect the wire feeding the panel.
> If you install a larger 200 you may be opening a can of worms.
> The panel needs to be rated for 200 amps, the wiring to the panel needs to support the added load as well as the transformer that supplies power to the panel (owned by the elec company most likely). Most comercial panels are 225amp but the main can't exceed the bus rating. What size wire serves the panel? Is it copper or aluminum?
> As for a self install, that's depends on your ability.
> ...


yeah, so the box says 150.

the house is an old house, not sure if that makes a difference, and when i say old i mean 50's 60's

there are 2 huge metal cables that come in, and obviously the ground going out.

None of them appear to be yellow copper color, but instead a aluminum color.

They are all VERY VERY thick tho.

I understand the idea that if the electrical company's box outside is rated for the 150, i might hurt things.

200 is the norm these days tho i thought? at least thats all i see at lowes and home depot for new boxes.

anyway, let me know, im going to go talk to the guy at the electric store and find out


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## CrackerJax (Feb 1, 2010)

If you want 200 amps...you'll need to replace the panel.


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## laughingduck (Feb 1, 2010)

Sherry, 
The 150 amp service is odd, I would bet you have 200 available from the meter. You need to have an electrician to come out and look at it. Best case all that you need is a 200 amp panel to replace the 150. Worst case the service is 150 or the wire feed coming from the pole is too small to carry the 200 amps. An electrician that can put his ryrs on it can tell pretty quick.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 1, 2010)

It's an old house.... and 150 used to be the norm, I assure you. I've worked on old cracker homes that were 100 Amps.... the days before A/C. I don't know how they did it frankly.

I'm sure the wire can probably handle the load, but IF she can get a 200 amp breaker to fit.... it will still be a flagrant code violation if detected. Guts aren't that expensive...take the plunge and do it right.


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## laughingduck (Feb 1, 2010)

She must be out of the U.S. , didn't think to ask.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 1, 2010)

Something to consider is if a panel is on the outside of the house, or the inside. You could probably get away with a code cheat on an inside panel, since the risk of detection is quite minimal. But if the panel is outside, then it might be found out...and attention is not something anyone wants when growing.


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## BehindYou (Feb 1, 2010)

In the US the meter is typicaly the utility and the wires to the panel are yours. So ur going to install a hot tub and need to know if the service will allow the additional load. Call the utility ask what the service to the house is. Minimum service in the US is now 100 amp. I don't know how the layout of the panel is but if the utility says 200 is no problem then get a service entrance rated panel with the 200 main, 100amp and 150 branch breakers. Subfeed the existing 150 with the new 150 branch breaker and remove the old 150 main to make it a mlo ( main lug only ) panel. Refeed the the other panel with the 100 amp.


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## SM4RT3 (Feb 1, 2010)

hiya Bricktown, awesome idea for a thread

basic question really but... my grow room atm has 2 x 125cfl's running into a 2 plug extension socket (3 core wire) which inturn is plugged into a segment timer, i read somewhere that the segemnt timer could overheat with a no. of wattage and fuse together, i think it will prob handle the 250 im puttin in atm, but when i come to flower i will be using 1 x 400w hps and 1 x 125cfl, will i need anything specific for this or will the 2 socket extension and segment (digital if i update) timer work?

Thanks in advance

Peace


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## mrmadcow (Feb 1, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> It's an old house.... and 150 used to be the norm, I assure you. I've worked on old cracker homes that were 100 Amps.... the days before A/C. I don't know how they did it frankly.


I just looked at a service for a buddy, he still has fuses w/ a 60 amp main.house was built in the 30s, guessing service is same.6 fuses for a 2500 sq ft house! 

Sherri, assuming you are in the US, a 200 amp main will not fit in a 150 amp box & the wire from the top of the house to the meterbox & from the meter box to the panel are yours and are probably only rated for 150 amps so will need replacing as well.materials should only run around $250-300 so if you know an electrician....
replacing the 150 amp main isnt to hard but you will need to remove the meter to kill power to it, best not to attempt if you are not used to working w/ electric.


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## iloveit (Feb 1, 2010)

I have 2 questions:

First question: How do I calculate the maximum number of fans I can attach to one power adaptor?

Second question: The below pic shows how to connect one ballast to a relay which controls 2 x bulbs & switches them on/off at any one time. But what are the EARTH wire connected to?


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## Ghani Bonaduce (Feb 1, 2010)

Hi, noticed you gave the advice to never buy lights from hydro retailers unless you wanna pay 3x more than worth. Can you recommend some of the cheapest sources you know of ?


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## IAm5toned (Feb 1, 2010)

sherriberry said:


> i just had a seimens 150 main breaker go bad.
> 
> first off.... can i replace it without dying?
> 
> ...


a 200 amp main breaker normally will not fit in a 150amp main breaker panel. the frame of the breaker is designed to fit a certain way...
you will have to replace the entire panel to a 200 amp.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 1, 2010)

iloveit said:


> I have 2 questions:
> 
> First question: How do I calculate the maximum number of fans I can attach to one power adaptor?
> 
> Second question: The below pic shows how to connect one ballast to a relay which controls 2 x bulbs & switches them on/off at any one time. But what are the EARTH wire connected to?


power supply rating equation:
in this example i will use a 120vac/12vdc 1.25amp wall adapter. you can fill in your numbers into the equation as needes.

1. Find Continuous Duty Wattage of your Power Supply-
(12vdc x 1.25amp= 15watts)
15 watts x 80% = 12 watts.
you have 12 watts of continuous duty 12vdc.

2. Combine the wattage of all your connected 12vdc fans (voltage x amperage of the biggest fan x number of fans) is this number greater than the the continuous duty wattage of your transformer? if it is you need a bigger and/or another power supply. if it is smaller, than your good to go.........

to answer your second question-

that drawing wont work. sorry. lol heath's way of a joke......


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## IAm5toned (Feb 1, 2010)

mrmadcow said:


> I just looked at a service for a buddy, he still has fuses w/ a 60 amp main.house was built in the 30s, guessing service is same.6 fuses for a 2500 sq ft house!
> 
> Sherri, assuming you are in the US, a 200 amp main will not fit in a 150 amp box & the wire from the top of the house to the meterbox & from the meter box to the panel are yours and are probably only rated for 150 amps so will need replacing as well.materials should only run around $250-300 so if you know an electrician....
> replacing the 150 amp main isnt to hard but you will need to remove the meter to kill power to it, best not to attempt if you are not used to working w/ electric.


what if there was only a 150 amp service from the power company? if you did this, add a 200 panle to a 150 amp service, there is a very real likely hood you will burn up your service equipment (meterbase, wires in from street connection) then the power company will nail your ass for tampering with there meterbase.
there's a reason you need a key for it........


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## iloveit (Feb 1, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> power supply rating equation:
> in this example i will use a 120vac/12vdc 1.25amp wall adapter. you can fill in your numbers into the equation as needes.
> 
> 1. Find Continuous Duty Wattage of your Power Supply-
> ...


Thanks IAm5toned.

What are the earth terminals usually wired to?

Heath has the relay in action in another forum:

http://www.breedbay.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=201348996


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## laughingduck (Feb 1, 2010)

iloveit said:


> I have 2 questions:
> 
> First question: How do I calculate the maximum number of fans I can attach to one power adaptor?
> 
> Second question: The below pic shows how to connect one ballast to a relay which controls 2 x bulbs & switches them on/off at any one time. But what are the EARTH wire connected to?


 Earth ground should be attached to both cases of the lights.


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## iloveit (Feb 1, 2010)

laughingduck said:


> Earth ground should be attached to both cases of the lights.


And the earth terminal from the ballast?


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## sherriberry (Feb 1, 2010)

wow did i give you guys something to talk about while i was gone 

to make you feel better, im getting an electrician to come out and prob replace the whole box because i found out the old seimens main 150 breakers... are only 230 bucks.... sarcasm

and a new 200amp box is a while 120 bucks... sarcasm

so, either way i go im going to pay a lot of money, might was well do it right, and that way if anything fails again, im not buying discontinued expensive ass parts

Thanks for all the help everyone, ill let you know how it goes tomorrow


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## laughingduck (Feb 1, 2010)

iloveit said:


> And the earth terminal from the ballast?


 yes, case/ earth terminal and the two cases that you mount your bulbs in.


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## iloveit (Feb 2, 2010)

laughingduck said:


> yes, case/ earth terminal and the two cases that you mount your bulbs in.


So the earth terminals should simply connect to the case of the appliance... right?


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## laughingduck (Feb 2, 2010)

iloveit said:


> So the earth terminals should simply connect to the case of the appliance... right?


 yes, they should. Do you have a plug for the bulb side of the ballast or are you wiring directly to the guts of the ballast?


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## aagiants1 (Feb 2, 2010)

Hello Bricktown, I'm wondering how much 2 600's are going to draw..I've got a 400 right now, and my room runs off the same breaker as my smoke alarms that are hot wired into the house..(i have batteries in all of them) but they're still hot wired too..I was thinking 2 6's would be too much for that 20 amp breaker? So i have that 30 amp box on the right, it looks like the only thing that is running is the hot water tank. Would that be a possibility? and how hard would it be to put in a breaker box? i'd have to go from the basement to the 2nd floor...It would be a challenge to do it, but if its a must then i will..But some of the breakers on the other box only run like 2 outlets, and some aren't marked, so i'm going to test to see what runs what...Any and all help will be appreciated..I also run my air pump, can fan 4" 220cfm, and an oscialting fan, and timer..sorry for the long spew, but i wanted u to get the full giggy..


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## iloveit (Feb 2, 2010)

laughingduck said:


> yes, they should. Do you have a plug for the bulb side of the ballast or are you wiring directly to the guts of the ballast?


Im planning on wiring it according to the previous diagram.


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## rome35 (Feb 2, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> you need to get a 40 amp 'HACR" rated breaker to fix that... your only pulling roughly 29 amps @ 220.
> your 50 amp has a worn element, thats why its tripping every time the lights kick on. the 'HACR' stands for _Heating Air Conditioning Refridgeration. _these are also known as inductive loads.... the hacr rated breaker has a dual element for inrush loads.


 
Turns out my breaker is HACR so that is not the issue...still having the same problem...I think the issue is the surge at start up...people have suggested I get a Delay switch between the timer and the breaker so it does not cause the surge.


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## laughingduck (Feb 2, 2010)

iloveit said:


> Im planning on wiring it according to the previous diagram.


 OK then just connect the case of the ballast to the cases of light fixtures and you will be fine. I was thinking you might have a ballast with a hot, neutral, and a ground coming out on the light side of the ballast. if that was the case then you could find the ground in the light cord and connect that to the cases of the lights.


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## sherriberry (Feb 2, 2010)

electrician is putting in a new 200amp box that comes with a main breaker and a few others, and all other breakers from my box are compatible, so they can swap over.

the main feed lines coming in the house from the meter are 150 amps a piece he said, so i could run 300 i guess, but who needs that much power, only if your a weed grower

he said it should take him a few hours, and hes only going to charge me 30 an hour, so 129 for the box

and another 120 for the electrician...

or 230 for a new 150 main breaker for my box...

its kind of a no brainer right?


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## iloveit (Feb 2, 2010)

laughingduck said:


> OK then just connect the case of the ballast to the cases of light fixtures and you will be fine. I was thinking you might have a ballast with a hot, neutral, and a ground coming out on the light side of the ballast. if that was the case then you could find the ground in the light cord and connect that to the cases of the lights.


Nice one mate thanks for helping out much appreciated.


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## BikerDude (Feb 2, 2010)

I just built a new grow room and have some questions:

I want to run a sub-panel to my grow room and want to know if I should run a 10/3 feeder or an 8/3 feeder. Here is what I have layed out...using 14/2 wiring. {or should I use 12/2}

Circuit 1: Dedicated line to my 6" exhaust fan.

Circuit 2: Dedicated line to my 600wt. grow light

Circuit 3: 2 GFCI outlets and one regular outlet

Circuit 4: Single pole light switch to an overhead light and then on to a regular outlet. {I will use 14/3 between the switch and the light

I was thinking all I need is 4-15 amp breakers to do this; one for each circuit.

How close am I?

Thanks,

BikerDude


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## mrmadcow (Feb 3, 2010)

BikerDude said:


> ......I want to run a sub-panel to my grow room and want to know if I should run a 10/3 feeder or an 8/3 feeder. Here is what I have layed out...using 14/2 wiring. {or should I use 12/2}....
> ...Circuit 3: 2 GFCI outlets and one regular outlet....
> How close am I?
> Thanks,
> BikerDude


8/3 would be a better choice,remember that the common is carrying the load for both circuits so if you tied it to a double 20 amp breaker,you could have almost 40 amps on the 1 neutral & 10 gauge is only rated for 30 amps.if you want to expand your room later 6/3 would give you 2 30 amp circuits,enough to run several 1000 w lights.

if wired properly, a GFI protects all the outlets after it so you only need 1 on the circuit.
all else sounds like you have a good plan...happy growing


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## mrmadcow (Feb 3, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> what if there was only a 150 amp service from the power company? if you did this, add a 200 panle to a 150 amp service, there is a very real likely hood you will burn up your service equipment (meterbase, wires in from street connection) then the power company will nail your ass for tampering with there meterbase.
> there's a reason you need a key for it........


didnt expect her to do this herself & b4 you can change a service,your power co has to be notified.like you said,you need a key to open the meterbox.in the past 25+ yrs that I have been doing service changeovers,I have seen a drop rated for less than 200 amps only 1 time & that was to a cabin that burned down 20 yrs prior..I also didnt mention she may need a permit. this wasn't a tutorial on how to upgrade a service


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## Maripan (Feb 3, 2010)

Greetings,

I run a 600 Watt light, a six inch can fan, and electronic timers for the water and CO2. When I set up a 9000 BTU portable AC unit, everything ran fine until the circuit breaker cut off. At the time we also had three TVs on in the house that shut off with everything else. Can I replace circuit breaker with another one without burning the wires or creating a fire hazard? How many amps do you suggest. 15? 20? I am not sure what is in there now.

Maripan


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 3, 2010)

Maripan said:


> Greetings,
> 
> I run a 600 Watt light, a six inch can fan, and electronic timers for the water and CO2. When I set up a 9000 BTU portable AC unit, everything ran fine until the circuit breaker cut off. At the time we also had three TVs on in the house that shut off with everything else. Can I replace circuit breaker with another one without burning the wires or creating a fire hazard? How many amps do you suggest. 15? 20? I am not sure what is in there now.
> 
> Maripan


You can NOT, safely, put in a bigger breaker without replacing/upgrading the wire. 

Now if the breaker has tripped a whole bunch of times, it can get weak and trip easier. In that case, replacing it can help, but only one of the same rating.


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## Maripan (Feb 3, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> You can NOT, safely, put in a bigger breaker without replacing/upgrading the wire.
> 
> Now if the breaker has tripped a whole bunch of times, it can get weak and trip easier. In that case, replacing it can help, but only one of the same rating.


Thanks. I looked at the circuit box and all the breakers are 20 amps, except the one that tripped, which is 15. The 15 amp breaker looks newer than the others. Could it be that someone replaced a 20 amp breaker with the 15 amp one that is giving me problems?


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## IAm5toned (Feb 3, 2010)

Maripan said:


> Thanks. I looked at the circuit box and all the breakers are 20 amps, except the one that tripped, which is 15. The 15 amp breaker looks newer than the others. Could it be that someone replaced a 20 amp breaker with the 15 amp one that is giving me problems?


that is a very probable scenario, however you need to make sure that ALL of the wire connected to that 15 amp circuit is #12 awg Cu (copper). typically in residential construction it is common to use #14 awg on a 15 amp breaker... #14 is only rated for 15 amps, so if your pulling 16-17 amps on that circuit, and there is some #14 on it, there is a very real chance of a fire hazard. you might want to trace out that circuit and make sure there isnt a peice of #14 running between two outlets... what your dealing with is a minor problem, but if not fixed correctly can turn into a worst nightmare situation. you might want to find an electrician buddy to take a look at it for you.

or it could just be a bad/worn out breaker, tho i doubt it. i think most tv's average 2-400watt.. 3 of em would mean a minimum of 600 watts. you can get 1440watts out of a 15 amp circuit.... you might want to try and split up the load.


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## Maripan (Feb 3, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> that is a very probable scenario, however you need to make sure that ALL of the wire connected to that 15 amp circuit is #12 awg Cu (copper). typically in residential construction it is common to use #14 awg on a 15 amp breaker... #14 is only rated for 15 amps, so if your pulling 16-17 amps on that circuit, and there is some #14 on it, there is a very real chance of a fire hazard. you might want to trace out that circuit and make sure there isnt a peice of #14 running between two outlets... what your dealing with is a minor problem, but if not fixed correctly can turn into a worst nightmare situation. you might want to find an electrician buddy to take a look at it for you.
> 
> or it could just be a bad/worn out breaker, tho i doubt it. i think most tv's average 2-400watt.. 3 of em would mean a minimum of 600 watts. you can get 1440watts out of a 15 amp circuit.... you might want to try and split up the load.



Thank you for getting back to me... I just looked at the sticker on the inside of the door of the breaker panel and it says exactly the following:

USE 15 THRU 70 AMP. TYPE Q24 
(CAT. NO. Q2431) CIRCUIT BREAKER 
ON POSITION 1, 2, & 5 ONLY. 

My problem 15 amp breaker is in position 5. Does this information help in any way?

Thanks again.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 3, 2010)

Maripan said:


> Thank you for getting back to me... I just looked at the sticker on the inside of the door of the breaker panel and it says exactly the following:
> 
> USE 15 THRU 70 AMP. TYPE Q24
> (CAT. NO. Q2431) CIRCUIT BREAKER
> ...


tells me thats a square D panel lol... thats about it.
the problem is with the wiring, your trying to run too much off of it, not the breaker.....


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## [email protected] (Feb 5, 2010)

I just got this dayton blower in the mail. Its rated at 115V. The blower did not come wired for AC. I have purchased a 14 gauge grounded electrical cord. It is rated for 125V (insulated for 300V... ) My question is How do I wire this up SAFELY? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Pics should show you what the blower looks like.


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## pottropalus (Feb 5, 2010)

hello all. I'm trying to install this 50 Amp Timer Box Use With Ecoplus Digital Timer http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php?products_id=1970 but i need to install a nema 14-50 receptacle in place of my old dryer plug... is this as simple as just removing the dryer plug and connecting the wires to the nema 14-50. i have no electrical experience and any help would be great!!


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## laughingduck (Feb 5, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I just got this dayton blower in the mail. Its rated at 115V. The blower did not come wired for AC. I have purchased a 14 gauge grounded electrical cord. It is rated for 125V (insulated for 300V... ) My question is How do I wire this up SAFELY? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Pics should show you what the blower looks like.


 Take the cover off the small gray box and show what is inside.


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## [email protected] (Feb 5, 2010)

Ill post some pix whn I get off work. Should be up in about 6


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 5, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Ill post some pix whn I get off work. Should be up in about 6



Yup. inside the peckerhead there might even be a diagram.

But overall it doesn't matter much. The green/yellow wire is the ground. Then hook the 2 AC wires up to the terminals in the peckerhead. If they are labeled line (L) and neutral (N) then try to hook them up right if ya can.

Swapping the Line and neutral will NOT reverse an AC motor.(swapping a positive and negitive will on a DC brushed motor)


(AC isn't polarized. The 'polarized plug' I find kinda funny since one of prong/lines is plain 0 volts, the other goes from positive to negitive 120 60 times a second, so where is the polarizing? Devices may use the neutral as a 0 volt ref, but for a straight motor, don't sweat it.)


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## mrmadcow (Feb 5, 2010)

pottropalus said:


> .. is this as simple as just removing the dryer plug and connecting the wires to the nema 14-50. i have no electrical experience and any help would be great!!


probably not quite that simple.the old dryer plug was probably 3 wire.2 hot 120 legs and a neutral.the new will be the same but adds a 4th wire to ground. you could run a 12 gauge or larger wire to a ground and make it work (safely)but it would not meet code (if that matters to you.)
w/out any electric experience,I would recommend finding someone who does.its a 15 min job so it shouldn't cost much provided you can find a ground nearby.


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## one11 (Feb 5, 2010)

Heres the lowdown. I'm building a growshed about 250ft away from the closest powersource. The powersource happens to be a 125v 30 amp RV outlet. 
I've got the 12gauge cord that has the black white and green wires in it, and the male end that plugs into the outlet. But I need help on how to use this to power my 600w hps and fan. Is this safe? Thanks ahead of time.


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## visceraeyes (Feb 5, 2010)

How would you wire a fan with a 4 pin connector like the one below?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835119035&cm_re=case_fan-_-35-119-035-_-Product


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## [email protected] (Feb 5, 2010)

finally got my pics taken. There was no diagram... unless its that lil sticker that makes absolutely no sense to me. There is a screw sticking up right beside the sticker. I am kinda the type of person that needs explicit instructions to follow. LOL. I guess its the w33d in me. But if you can provide detailed instructions on how to wire then I would greatly appreciate it. I think one of the pics shows the electrical cable I plan to use.


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## laughingduck (Feb 6, 2010)

The dimple on the little gray box is a pre punched hole, take a screwdriver and a hammer and knock it out. Install a cord grip in the hole (this will hold your cord when you run it through the hole. Install a loop terminal on the green wire on the cord, needs to be sized for the gold colored screw in the box. pull the end you are going to connect to the fan in to the box. screw the green wire to the box. wire nut the white wires, wire nut the black wires. pull excess cord out of the box. install cover on box.....all finished, just need to plug it in.


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## [email protected] (Feb 6, 2010)

Ok. I kinda understand. 1) what does a cord grip look like and where can I find one [lowes? Home depot?] Um.... same for loop terminals. I don't know what they look like either. Wire nuts are those plastic things that u insert wires into in order to maintain a connection right? I should cut the excess wire coming frm the box, attatch the utility cable with the nuts, and make sure that all the connections are secured within the box enclosure right? So there's no need to solder the wires together? Sorry if I'm confusing you. I have never really worked with electricity.


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## grownam (Feb 6, 2010)

What will use the least power a 220 volt or 110 volt ballist?


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## laughingduck (Feb 6, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Ok. I kinda understand. 1) what does a cord grip look like and where can I find one [lowes? Home depot?] Um.... same for loop terminals. I don't know what they look like either. Wire nuts are those plastic things that u insert wires into in order to maintain a connection right? I should cut the excess wire coming frm the box, attatch the utility cable with the nuts, and make sure that all the connections are secured within the box enclosure right? So there's no need to solder the wires together? Sorry if I'm confusing you. I have never really worked with electricity.


You can get the grip and the terminal at lowes or HD or any hardware store. The terminal needs to fit the green wire and crip on. The cord grip needs to be the right size for the hole, and be able to grip the cord. The wire nuts you will use to connect the wires, so there is no need to solder.


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## [email protected] (Feb 6, 2010)

laughingduck said:


> You can get the grip and the terminal at lowes or HD or any hardware store. The terminal needs to fit the green wire and crip on. The cord grip needs to be the right size for the hole, and be able to grip the cord. The wire nuts you will use to connect the wires, so there is no need to solder.


Thanks man. Used this knowledge and she's up n runnin now. Heh. My babies will have some fresh circulation now.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 6, 2010)

grownam said:


> What will use the least power a 220 volt or 110 volt ballist?


neither. they both use the same amount of power, at a different voltage.

1000w @ 110v = 9.09 amps
1000w @ 220v = 4.54 amps

too bad you get billed for wattage


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## mrmadcow (Feb 6, 2010)

one11 said:


> ... I'm building a growshed about 250ft away from the closest powersource....I've got the 12gauge cord that has the black white and green wires in it, ... Is this safe? Thanks ahead of time.


it will work but you should go to a heavier gauge wire.the longer the run, the more voltage drops,the less light you will produce & the more strain on the fan and ballast.
the easy way to wire it is to buy an outlet and box and attach the wires to the proper terminals.black to the gold screw,white to the silver screw & green to the green screw.-altho if you need to ask,you might be better off getting someone to do it for you.


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## laughingduck (Feb 6, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Thanks man. Used this knowledge and she's up n runnin now. Heh. My babies will have some fresh circulation now.


 Sweet. Good luck with the grow.


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## louch (Feb 7, 2010)

hello bricktown i would really appreciate it if you could answer one quick question. if i am using my dryer outlet in the basement which i believe is 220volt and 40 amps and i have a timer board wired with 8 sockets for 220volt and i have 1000 watt lights also wired on 220v does that mean i can put like 6 or 7 1000 watters on that timer? because im under the immpression that i am drawing approx 4.5 amp per light and its a 40 amp breaker (7 lights would be 31amps which i think is just a tiny bit over 80% cappacity) . am i right or am i going to burn my house down?? thank you so much in advance.


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## louch (Feb 7, 2010)

hello bricktown i would really appreciate it if you could answer one quick question. if i am using my dryer outlet in the basement which i believe is 220volt and 40 amps and i have a timer board wired with 8 sockets for 220volt and i have 1000 watt lights also wired on 220v does that mean i can put like 6 or 7 1000 watters on that timer? because im under the immpression that i am drawing approx 4.5 amp per light and its a 40 amp breaker (7 lights would be 31amps which i think is just a tiny bit over 80% cappacity) . am i right or am i going to burn my house down?? thank you so much in advance.


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## louch (Feb 7, 2010)

hello bricktown i would really appreciate it if you could answer one quick question. if i am using my dryer outlet in the basement which i believe is 220volt and 40 amps and i have a timer board wired with 8 sockets for 220volt and i have 1000 watt lights also wired on 220v does that mean i can put like 6 or 7 1000 watters on that timer? because im under the immpression that i am drawing approx 4.5 amp per light and its a 40 amp breaker (7 lights would be 31amps which i think is just a tiny bit over 80% cappacity) . am i right or am i going to burn my house down?? thank you so much in advance.


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## louch (Feb 7, 2010)

sorry i did not mean to post that 3 times.


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## grownam (Feb 7, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> neither. they both use the same amount of power, at a different voltage.
> 
> 1000w @ 110v = 9.09 amps
> 1000w @ 220v = 4.54 amps
> ...


Thanks for the help


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## mex2425 (Feb 7, 2010)

hi how do you fix a noisy ballast? can it be fixed?
Whats wrong with it?
It sounds like vibration real bad vibration


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## mrmadcow (Feb 7, 2010)

louch said:


> ...am i right or am i going to burn my house down?? thank you so much in advance.


what is the timer rated for?


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## Dutchman24 (Feb 7, 2010)

I have a good electrical question... i know a good amount about electrical but need some help with this idea... if i have 2 400watt mh ballasts can i splice into the wires of one ballast before the socket and make a pigtail with two more wires running to the socket for the second light? because its wired in parallel it should still be getting all the same voltages i think...

I really appreciate your help on this one


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## IAm5toned (Feb 7, 2010)

Dutchman24 said:


> I have a good electrical question... i know a good amount about electrical but need some help with this idea... if i have 2 400watt mh ballasts can i splice into the wires of one ballast before the socket and make a pigtail with two more wires running to the socket for the second light? because its wired in parallel it should still be getting all the same voltages i think...
> 
> I really appreciate your help on this one


no. you will burn up the ballast transformer and/or starter/cap... if it even works at all.

the ballasts are rated for wattage. exceed the wattage and bad things happen.


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## thc~me (Feb 7, 2010)

i have a white/black coming from my reflector and white black and green from my cord. I assume that I wire white to white and black/green to black? just wanna check. 

thanks


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## mrmadcow (Feb 7, 2010)

thc~me said:


> i have a white/black coming from my reflector and white black and green from my cord. I assume that I wire white to white and black/green to black? just wanna check.
> 
> thanks


no, the green is ground & should be attached to a metal part of the hood


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## thc~me (Feb 7, 2010)

Ok thanks, it is not for HPS or MH its a CFL style bulb with a built in ballast.


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## DMC65 (Feb 7, 2010)

My question involves relocating an outlet from 18" to about 5' in the same bay to get it out of the way of water spills. The outlet is about 20 years old and the top recepticle turns on/off from a wallswitch. It must also support about 3 more outlets downstream because they stopped working when i disconnected the outlet. I have one 4 conductor (b,wh,r, grnd) and 1 3 conductor (w,b, grnd). on the recepticle i have red and white from 4 cunductor on top . the bottom has both black wires and the nuestral white from the 3 conductor. grounds are spliced and connected to ground screw. my plan is to run the same wires from the new locatio to the old and wire nut the connections. i would terminate the new recepticle the same as the old. is this the recommended method? are the new recepticles wired this way? also could i use a GFI outlet this way?


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## mrmadcow (Feb 8, 2010)

DMC65 said:


> My question involves relocating an outlet from 18" to about 5' in the same bay to get it out of the way of water spills. The outlet is about 20 years old and the top recepticle turns on/off from a wallswitch. It must also support about 3 more outlets downstream because they stopped working when i disconnected the outlet. I have one 4 conductor (b,wh,r, grnd) and 1 3 conductor (w,b, grnd). on the recepticle i have red and white from 4 cunductor on top . the bottom has both black wires and the nuestral white from the 3 conductor. grounds are spliced and connected to ground screw. my plan is to run the same wires from the new locatio to the old and wire nut the connections. i would terminate the new recepticle the same as the old. is this the recommended method? are the new recepticles wired this way? also could i use a GFI outlet this way?


sounds like you got it. the red wire is the switched leg so if you use a new outlet,you will have to cut the little metal jumper between the top screw & bottom screw on the side that has the red & black wires or to give up the switch, wirenut off the red & just attach the blacks to the 1 side.
if going w/ GFI, read the instructions,it will tell you how to wire so as to protect the outlets downstream- the wire w/ no red will be to the outlets "downstream"


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## Willy329 (Feb 8, 2010)

New question. For 10x 10000 watt grow plus fans, etc., will I need to rewire my loft space ?


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## DMC65 (Feb 9, 2010)

Thanks for the feed back Mrmadcow. I'll follow your advice and close off the red since i dont need the swithed outlet anymore. ++ rep!!


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## joanathegarner (Feb 9, 2010)

Hey this question may be stupid but here's mine:
ok for my growing restrictions I have to use car batteries to power my grow project
I was hoping I would be able to attach one of those power strips to the batteries so I can just plug in the seperte components of my grow op ino it
is there a simple way to do this, making it easy to switch out the batteries?

Also, I am planning on using a 30 watt cfl flood light per plant (x16) and a hydroponic system (ebb and flow) so how long do you think the car batteries will last (or the amps the give out)


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## IAm5toned (Feb 9, 2010)




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## andyman (Feb 9, 2010)

sub scribed


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## Confidential Herb (Feb 9, 2010)

I'm living in a 5000 square foot home. There is always lights in a couple rooms running. This is my first grow so I'm trying to be as cautious as possible! Is 6 42watt cfls going to tip anything off to the electric company?? How much is this going to affect my electricity bill by a 18/6 for four weeks and a 12/12 for nine weeks? Let me know thanks!


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## TylerHTC (Feb 9, 2010)

Hey I got a question. Can you wire CFLs to a computer power supply? As in wiring one 12v and one ground to the contacts on the bulb granted that you have enough wattage. I have wired a lamp cord to a CFL before but was wondering if this would work before i went tearing up a power supply.


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## mrmadcow (Feb 10, 2010)

joanathegarner said:


> Hey this question may be stupid but here's mine:
> ok for my growing restrictions I have to use car batteries to power my grow project
> I was hoping I would be able to attach one of those power strips to the batteries so I can just plug in the seperte components of my grow op ino it
> is there a simple way to do this, making it easy to switch out the batteries?
> ...


not at all pratical.first you will need a power inverter to kick the voltage up to 115 volts AC. just the lights will draw over 40 amps from the battery so it will last a few hrs at most,next car batteries are not made to be used that way so you will be buying a new 1 every few days
sorry,but like I said,not pratical


TylerHTC said:


> Hey I got a question. Can you wire CFLs to a computer power supply?


 no it wont work & please stop YELLING !!!


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## justlearning73 (Feb 10, 2010)

Ok I have a question for the wise electical people on here. I have 4 T-5 lights. they all have a 6 inch jumper to conect all together. My question is this: Can I make the jumper longer with out damaging or causing any problems? I want to splice another wire to make the jumper oh about 3 to 4 feet long. Is this doable? thanks for any and all feed back.


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## buggin69 (Feb 10, 2010)

I have a no BS question for anybody that knows the answer. 

I have a dual speed twin blower fan from an OTR microwave. I got it bare with the wire harness cut. It has a loose diagram (not a schematic) on the sticker. White is common, blue is high, yellow is low. If I hook up to white/blue or white/yellow the fan hums until I spin it by hand at which point it takes off and runs like it's supposed to... whether it's high or low. It also has an orange and red wire and if you touch them together for a moment after plugging it in while it's humming it will start to spin on it's own... then separate them and it spins to full speed. This is obviously wrong though. On the diagram they go from the motor to a C. On the sticker elsewhere it says CAP 10uF. I'm assuming the C is a capacitor. 
Now for the question. I have a capacitor from a different microwave. This one came from the high side of the transformer on the magnetron. It's a 1.05 uF 2100V cap (and it's huge). If I hook red and orange to opposite sides of the cap and then apply power it spins on it's own and quickly makes it's way to full speed just like I'd expect. Here comes the question for real. Is this ok? Do I need to find exactly a 10uF cap? I may be able to. I got sick while parts searching tonight and had to stop short. Didn't know I'd need a cap at all just happened to have this one from a microwave i took apart before. But if this is okay then it's certainly okay with me. 

If I do need to get the exact right thing and you know where I can order it please point me to it. 

Thanks ahead of time.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 10, 2010)

the cap from the micro will eventually burn up the motor.


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## buggin69 (Feb 10, 2010)

justlearning73 said:


> Ok I have a question for the wise electical people on here. I have 4 T-5 lights. they all have a 6 inch jumper to conect all together. My question is this: Can I make the jumper longer with out damaging or causing any problems? I want to splice another wire to make the jumper oh about 3 to 4 feet long. Is this doable? thanks for any and all feed back.



Yes, just use a cord sufficient enough to handle all 4 lights. When you wire them in a normal environment you are just attaching them to a longer wire. It's no different. Just use wire caps and a large enough gauge wire. You didn't say how many watts but I imagine 14 or even 16 would be fine


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## buggin69 (Feb 10, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> the cap from the micro will eventually burn up the motor.



I know I'm the one asking the questions here... and if you can explain it to me I'll be fine with it... but I'd have to disagree with that specific answer at this point in time. With my understanding of capacitors they only store energy until it is needed... at which point it is released. I would more likely expect to burn up the capacitor in this case... but it's very much over sized... And I know that a 250V capacitor used on a 100V system only holds 100V... 250V is merely the maximum it can handle. Some also have a minimum... which this one might. I'm still not saying it's 100% solid.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be an ass. I really will listen to your explanation... that just isn't my understanding of how a capacitor works.

Thanks though


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## justlearning73 (Feb 10, 2010)

buggin69 said:


> Yes, just use a cord sufficient enough to handle all 4 lights. When you wire them in a normal environment you are just attaching them to a longer wire. It's no different. Just use wire caps and a large enough gauge wire. You didn't say how many watts but I imagine 14 or even 16 would be fine


 Sorry it is the 54w each for 4 lights. The package says you can hook upto 8 lights on one strand.. So just to be clear on my end, I can use the same size or larger for the wire that is already used in the jumper.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 10, 2010)

the 1.0 uf delivers less wattage at a higher rated voltage (2500v) than the 10uf... the 1 microfarad charge maybe enough to start the motor, but eventually, it will wear down on the thermistor (starting circuit) of your motor.... alot of single phase motors the starting circuit is energized during normal operation of the motor to provide additional torque. if the cap on the starting circuit is only 1uf and the motor requires a 10uf cap, then the motor is 'dragging', or running at undervoltage conditions. this will greatly shorten the life of the motor.....
make more sense?
the 1uf cap is good for a high voltage but lower power charge than the 10uf............


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## buggin69 (Feb 10, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> the 1.0 uf delivers less wattage at a higher rated voltage (2500v) than the 10uf... the 1 microfarad charge maybe enough to start the motor, but eventually, it will wear down on the thermistor (starting circuit) of your motor.... alot of single phase motors the starting circuit is energized during normal operation of the motor to provide additional torque. if the cap on the starting circuit is only 1uf and the motor requires a 10uf cap, then the motor is 'dragging', or running at undervoltage conditions. this will greatly shorten the life of the motor.....
> make more sense?
> the 1uf cap is good for a high voltage but lower power charge than the 10uf............




yes... thank you... now i understand fully

see... i'm not such a bad guy... lol... sorry most people don't like when i disagree... i have a hard time getting information

do you think this will work... i just found it online.... i'm going to go back and look for the right one where the busted microwaves are
http://www.drillspot.com/products/484480/dayton_2mdv7_motor_run_capacitor


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## buggin69 (Feb 10, 2010)

justlearning73 said:


> Sorry it is the 54w each for 4 lights. The package says you can hook upto 8 lights on one strand.. So just to be clear on my end, I can use the same size or larger for the wire that is already used in the jumper.


yes... you aren't stressing anything yet


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## justlearning73 (Feb 10, 2010)

Thanks buggin.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 10, 2010)

buggin69 said:


> yes... thank you... now i understand fully
> 
> see... i'm not such a bad guy... lol... sorry most people don't like when i disagree... i have a hard time getting information
> 
> ...


yeah, thats a good one, should work fine


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## buggin69 (Feb 10, 2010)

good... cause the others i found were a lot more expensive... wasn't going to waste the money if i can't find one


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## 1badmasonman (Feb 10, 2010)

Hello all im in the middle of a major remod on my grow room. Ive got some tech questions for the wize.

heres my room under const.





See the electrical fuse panels on the left. They are the old bus type fuses. There is the 2 main pull out lugs with 20 & 30 amp bullet fuses. Then theres the orange & blue screw in bus fuses. This is an old house. Last year i switched from a gas stove to electric and had a sparky wire it up to code. This is way before i built a grow room in the basement encompassing the fuse panels. Needless to say im not hiring a sparky at this point. But i am quite familiar with wiring in 220 pigtails into modern breaker boxes to run my brick saws. So now beside the main old bus box i have a 50 amp 220 breaker sub box. My current plan is to utilize the 240v function of my 2 600w ballast. I know these pics dont give a clear picture of what im working with. I can and will post a few clear pics in the morning of the entire power panel.

Just a quick quiz ? can i run an outlet from the same 220v 50 amp breaker sub panel which runs my stove, which is smack in the grow room , to run both of my 600 watt ballast's safely. pics in the morn will check back. Thanks for any advice.



Theres a better pic of my power supply.









This is my clone veg mother room which is basically framed to fit the floro hood but is inside the main room that is 8 by 13. This is where the power supply is.


Before the mylar cab on the right is the clone veg room which is where the power source is. 



Standing between the veg cab and entrance viewing the future flower room.



I f you can gather the layout i have hear so far i could use som exp advice on wiring up my 2 ballast to that 50 amp 220 breaker box. peace 1BBM


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## IAm5toned (Feb 10, 2010)

should be fine, your only pulling 6 amps with those lights @ 220


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## 1badmasonman (Feb 10, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> should be fine, your only pulling 6 amps with those lights @ 220


So i can run both my lights and my house oven on the same circuit. No worries. Also what about timers 220?

Thanks for the quick response pal


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## IAm5toned (Feb 10, 2010)

well i would be hesitant about running the lights and cooking a thanksgiving dinner... lol youll find out when the fuse blows


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## Moochbuds (Feb 10, 2010)

say i was to give you a full layout pics and all of my Fuse box, could you tell me how to change the main out with the same 100 amp new one.

Also would you be able to tell me how to put a new breaker in, i have one spot left and i am planning on building a new room.

I want to run its own breaker for the setup i am gonna be using. I am in construction now, installer. 

I have been around and seen inside guts of a fuse box and no worries, just wanna be SAFE and do it the right way.

I bought two books, simple wiring. And the Do it Yourself home improvements. But shoot, a pro offering help ill take it. So what do ya think?


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## patlpp (Feb 10, 2010)

Confidential Herb said:


> I'm living in a 5000 square foot home. There is always lights in a couple rooms running. This is my first grow so I'm trying to be as cautious as possible! Is 6 42watt cfls going to tip anything off to the electric company?? How much is this going to affect my electricity bill by a 18/6 for four weeks and a 12/12 for nine weeks? Let me know thanks!


42 x 6 = 252 watts. .252 *18*30 days = 136 kwh veg 
.252 * 12* 75 = 227 kwh flower 
227 + 252 = ~480 kwh .12c kwh *480 = $57 over 3 month span = $19 month.

Yes, you will have helicopters flying overhead and Serpico himself at your 
door if you try this!! 

Just kidding, it won't draw attention from the electric company but maybe your parents?


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## 1badmasonman (Feb 10, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> well i would be hesitant about running the lights and cooking a thanksgiving dinner... lol youll find out when the fuse blows


Cool i think i pretty well understant my power dist. now. 

Just one more queston can i wire my lights into one outlet with a timer? Not worried about fuses got plenty to burn.
Just dont wanna burn up 50 trying to get i t right. you are truly a gem. Iam5stoned. 1BMM


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## 1badmasonman (Feb 11, 2010)

1. When running a ballast on 220 can you still use the 110 plugs or must they be upgraded.

2. When will a breaker trip? Example if i have a 50 amp 220 breaker will it trip because of over amping. is that how it works?

3. Can you still use regular 110 timers or do they need t be 220 specific. 

4. Can i wire both of my ballast into one power source. Example: Run a pig tail out of a 220 breaker. Then wire both ballast power cords together and connect power via a 220 length of cord or wiring.
I know this sounds like a death trap but its perfectly logical. And alot less cords to deal with.

Any help here would be appreciated.


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## one11 (Feb 11, 2010)

Question: Im making a growroom outdoors about 250ft away from nearest powersource. What's the easiest and cheapest way to acquire that power? Buying 10/3 gauge wire is expensive. Dollar fifty a foot. So any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 11, 2010)

Rather scarey. What are you trying to do? Swap wires in the panel to give a 110 outlet 220? IF so Pal-lease don't do that. Having a 110 outlet with 220 on it will work (more on that later) but will allow you to pug in a 110 device into a 220 outlet. (lets the smoke out of stuff fast. And I still cant find those smoke reinstallation kits)

Just swapping the wires in the main panel *might* work, but since things can bit screwy. The neutrals (which is what you would wind up hooking the second leg to, can wind up being a dead short. Remember, a breaker runs more then just one single outlet.)

(working and correct are not always the same thing)

If you want 220, run a *new* line for it.





1badmasonman said:


> 1. When running a ballast on 220 can you still use the 110 plugs or must they be upgraded.
> 
> 2. When will a breaker trip? Example if i have a 50 amp 220 breaker will it trip because of over amping. is that how it works?
> 
> ...


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 11, 2010)

one11 said:


> Question: Im making a growroom outdoors about 250ft away from nearest powersource. What's the easiest and cheapest way to acquire that power? Buying 10/3 gauge wire is expensive. Dollar fifty a foot. So any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


Still the cheapest your gonna get.

Windmills (masts cost as much if not more then the turbine themselves), solar, micro-hydro, generators are all gonna be a LOT more.

Run the wire. Gotta pay to play.


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## mrmadcow (Feb 11, 2010)

one11 said:


> Question: Im making a growroom outdoors about 250ft away from nearest powersource. What's the easiest and cheapest way to acquire that power? Buying 10/3 gauge wire is expensive. Dollar fifty a foot. So any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


if using romex,you need 10/2 (it has 2 wires plus a ground wire) if you use extension cord wire ,you need 10/3. standard 10/2 romex will cost about $100 for a 250 roll. romex rated for direct burial will be almost double. that being said,standard romex will last for several years if buried- I buried a 12 foot piece to my gazebo about 8 yrs ago w/out problems...YET!
another option is to buy PVC pipe (under $2 for a 10 foot stick) & run the wire in that.last time I bought 10 gauge Thhn wire, a 500 foot roll was about $75.-Thhn is a single conductor that needs to be run in pipe so you would need 750 feet. $80 should cover the cost for 1/2 pvc pipe,clamps &boxes needed.romex or extension cord wire should not be run in pipe.
cheapest option would be to buy a 250 roll of 12/2 romex & use the extension cord you already have & double them up- tie both blacks together,both whites,& both grounds.this is not to code for many reasons but would be reasonable safe for several yrs & give you the power you need.I'm guessing if found, electric code violations are the least of your problems.
to review
best & to code would be PVC and Thhn wire-this would be to code & allow another circuit to be added later- a little over $200
next would be direct burial 10/2 Romex- also to code & under $200.
breaking code but safe for short term(4-5 yrs) would be 10/2 romex not rated for burial.-about $100
cheapest/dirtiest but safe for short term,12/2 romex buried w/ the 12/3 cord you already have & joined at both ends


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## 1badmasonman (Feb 11, 2010)

Wow great info here guys. Thanks for the reply BBB. I have it sorted and i will run a new line for my 220. thanks


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## one11 (Feb 11, 2010)

mrmadcow said:


> if using romex,you need 10/2 (it has 2 wires plus a ground wire) if you use extension cord wire ,you need 10/3. standard 10/2 romex will cost about $100 for a 250 roll. romex rated for direct burial will be almost double. that being said,standard romex will last for several years if buried- I buried a 12 foot piece to my gazebo about 8 yrs ago w/out problems...YET!
> another option is to buy PVC pipe (under $2 for a 10 foot stick) & run the wire in that.last time I bought 10 gauge Thhn wire, a 500 foot roll was about $75.-Thhn is a single conductor that needs to be run in pipe so you would need 750 feet. $80 should cover the cost for 1/2 pvc pipe,clamps &boxes needed.romex or extension cord wire should not be run in pipe.
> cheapest option would be to buy a 250 roll of 12/2 romex & use the extension cord you already have & double them up- tie both blacks together,both whites,& both grounds.this is not to code for many reasons but would be reasonable safe for several yrs & give you the power you need.I'm guessing if found, electric code violations are the least of your problems.
> to review
> ...


 

thanks mr.madcow. when it goes into investing into something, extra bucks go a long way. u'lll probably here more questions from me in the near future.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 11, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Run the wire. Gotta pay to play.


its funny how many people just dont get that simple statement...

everyone wants a lb in 2 weeks but no one wants to shell out the thousands it takes to get a setup capable of it.


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## Mister.Sinister (Feb 11, 2010)

I'm sure when bricktown started this thread, even he was aware how out of hand it would get. Of course there are many people on RIU with close or equivalent knowledge that would be more than glad to contribute. 5 star thread.


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## Mister.Sinister (Feb 11, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> its funny how many people just dont get that simple statement...
> 
> everyone wants a lb in 2 weeks but no one wants to shell out the thousands it takes to get a setup capable of it.


You bastard! I thought I had a bug infestation because of your signature LOL. Clever...


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## IAm5toned (Feb 11, 2010)

dont sweat it... karma is a mofo!

i just found spider mites in my veg cab 
3 moms and a fresh batch of clones


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## phatsexygirlz (Feb 12, 2010)

i gotta question if someone is still there, I'm helping my friend start up at grow room but his house is hella old and only has 2 pronged outlets, so we installed one of those adapters http://www.adorama.com/ZZAC32.html?sid=1265981739269149 but when we plug a ground tester in to it, it indicates it is an "open ground" he is just gonna be running one 1000 out of it so i assume its ok, what do you guys think, any danger?


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## IAm5toned (Feb 12, 2010)

it tests open ground because thats what is going on there....


is it safe? meh.... put it too you like this, it wouldnt pass an osha inspection, or any safety inspection for that matter.
will it work- sure.

ill give you a hint tho- see the little tab on the bottom of the plug adapter?
remove the screw that holds the plastic cover on the outlet.
plug in the plug adapter.
put the screw back in, passing it through the tab on the plug adapter.

if you still have an open ground after that, then you either have plastic boxes with no conduit inside your walls, or the outlets themselves are otherwise 'floating' above ground. (floating means ungrounded, but conductive)


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## Gildo (Feb 12, 2010)

Looking to wire 4-5 cpu case fans in parallel to a single dc supply. What do i need to do??? Any help would be appriciated....expecially with wiring diagrams


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## IAm5toned (Feb 12, 2010)

Gildo said:


> Looking to wire 4-5 cpu case fans in parallel to a single dc supply. What do i need to do??? Any help would be appriciated....expecially with wiring diagrams


black to black, red to red.
ignore the rest of the wires.
do not exceed the wattage of the power supply by adding too many motors, though i doubt you will do this, lol, it would take dozens of fans.


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## Gildo (Feb 12, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> black to black, red to red.
> ignore the rest of the wires.
> do not exceed the wattage of the power supply by adding too many motors, though i doubt you will do this, lol, it would take dozens of fans.


doesn't matter if they are 2,3 for wire? and can different fans be put together or do they need to be the same? Thanks for your speedy response!


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## IAm5toned (Feb 12, 2010)

lol rereadiong your original post i just realized you said single dc power supply... for some reason i thought you said single pc power supply. wandering inverted dyslexia i guess...

ok, well using a single dc power supply to run multiple fans can be done quite easily, but there some things you need to keep in mind-

1- do not exceed the rated wattage of the power supply. all power supplies will have the max wattage/amperage stamped on it somewhere.
2- do not accidentally reverse polarity when you hook up the fans. this means make sure positive is positive and negative is negative. on _most_ of the power supplies that have cords, the white striped/marked wire is typically the positive. note i said _most_. ive seen quite a few where the opposite was true, and have burned them up before i learned to verify the polarity before i hooked stuff up to them. 
3- make sure the _output voltage_ of the power supply is the same as your fans. dont try to use a 3.5vdc power supply(like a typical cell phone charger) to run a 12vdc fan.


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 12, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> its funny how many people just dont get that simple statement...
> 
> everyone wants a lb in 2 weeks but no one wants to shell out the thousands it takes to get a setup capable of it.


*just* that statement?  People miss a LOT of the simple stuff. Case in point: customer buys a 1/2 - 1 million dollar machine, then tries to cheap out on crappy gas lines, regulators and gas. Seen it too many times.

Do it right or stop ya bitching about the inferior results; is my take on things. (aka: garbage in garbage out. also weakest link syndrome)

I see you still answer the same Qs time after time. I gave up. A little search will result in *thousands* of posts about wiring up a PC fan.(I also, typically, stay out of posts where the guy is totally in over his head, just safer for all involved)


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## IAm5toned (Feb 12, 2010)

it really depends on the mood im in if i answer the repetitive ones or not


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## actionjacksonsdadsuncle (Feb 13, 2010)

i don't know which wire is the + or - cpu fan.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 13, 2010)

its 115v a/c... the polarity shouldnt matter.


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## phatsexygirlz (Feb 13, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> it tests open ground because thats what is going on there....
> 
> 
> ill give you a hint tho- see the little tab on the bottom of the plug adapter?
> ...



exactly! I screwed the ground ring in and its still read "Open Ground", i thought when you screwed that in that it meant it would be grounded but oh well, we'll figure something else out.. thanks for answering !


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## mrmadcow (Feb 13, 2010)

actionjacksonsdadsuncle said:


> i don't know which wire is the + or - cpu fan.





IAm5toned said:


> its 115v a/c... the polarity shouldnt matter.


what does mater is that fan gets wired to a male plug to go directly to an outlet & not run to a dc powersupply



phatsexygirlz said:


> exactly! I screwed the ground ring in and its still read "Open Ground", i thought when you screwed that in that it meant it would be grounded but oh well, we'll figure something else out.. thanks for answering !


if you have an waterpipe nearby,you could run a wire from it to the metal ring on the adaptor but if the outlet is not grounded & in an old house,I would question the safety of the outlet to run any load through it.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 13, 2010)

mrmadcow said:


> if you have an waterpipe nearby,you could run a wire from it to the metal ring on the adaptor but if the outlet is not grounded & in an old house,I would question the safety of the outlet to run any load through it.


dont even try that.... just dont.
you do not ever retrofit a coldwater ground after the fact.

cold water grounds must be terminated on the pipe 6' or less from the waterpipe's point of entry into the building strucutre, not randomly throughout the building.

if you did that and a short circuit condition occured, you could _kill your neighbor_ or someone in your house using a sink or shower.

the reason being that it has to do with the direction or circuit path of the potential fault... there are simply too many variables to take into consideration there to take the chance of doing something like that... the circumstances of it happening are slim to none, i know that, but it has happened in the past so it is possible to happen again.


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## mrmadcow (Feb 13, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> dont even try that.... just dont.
> you do not ever retrofit a coldwater ground after the fact.


good catch! 


> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to IAm5toned again.


I always thought the reason to ground within 6 feet of entry was to prevent the pipe from being disconnected and losing ground.either by being cut out of the system or having a section replace w/ pvc.
not to argue or dispute you but seeking knowledge, are you saying that the pipe could become energized and feed though the water to the drain(and anyone in its path)?
that makes sense & in that case,please admend my advice to running a wire to the breaker panel or water meter -altho I still question the ability to run a load on that outlet.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 13, 2010)

mrmadcow said:


> good catch!
> 
> I always thought the reason to ground within 6 feet of entry was to prevent the pipe from being disconnected and losing ground.either by being cut out of the system or having a section replace w/ pvc.
> not to argue or dispute you but seeking knowledge, are you saying that the pipe could become energized and feed though the water to the drain(and anyone in its path)?
> that makes sense & in that case,please admend my advice to running a wire to the breaker panel or water meter -altho I still question the ability to run a load on that outlet.


its the water that can become energized... if theres shitty soldering or oxidized pipes in the system between the bonding point and the entry point that act as a slight resistor, the dissolved salts in the water becomes the conductor and the current travels through the water to wherever it needs to go to dissapate. since drains, septics and sewers often create excellent earth grounds, the current can travel through the water in the pipes and out the faucet of a sink or whatever and then down the drain to the sewer/septic to dissapate in mother earth. if you happened to be using that sink or whatever, x amount of amps of fault current just traveled through your ass. 

the reason you have to bond within 6 feet of entry is that 6' of copper is a very short path to travel for fault current to get to earth, whereas if you bonded somewhere else in the structure, it could be 60-200 feet of water line before you get to ground, with alot of joints in between and changes of direction....

ps- i wouldnt run a load on that outlet either..  2 wires to me says knob and tubing....


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## slint42 (Feb 13, 2010)

Thank you for doing this, sir. I'll admit I have not read all 159 pages, but I have some questions in my mind so I'm going to see if you are kind enough to answer them. I am an electrical idiot, and so far my growing is just in theory.

1. Relay idea. Is there such a thing as a relay that would be controlled by 110V current? So that you could have one timer, and certain things would come one when the others went off. For instance, one could have two 12/12 grow chambers, completely isolated from light leakage, that would be light/dark at exactly opposite times. One advantage of this would be to eliminate the security issue of power companies detecting big 12/12 cycles of current usage (I read that they do this, but I don't know if it is true).

Another possible advantage of such a system would be to rig up a complex venting system so that the heated air from the lit chamber passed through the dark chamber on it's way out. This has to do with the relatively new horticultural concept of DIF, which states that plant stretching responds to the difference in day and night temperatures. Some greenhouses (I'm not talking about marijuana growers) have created a negative DIF by actually heating their greenhouses at night to a higher temp than they are in the day. For certain plants this results in very compact growth. It would be fun to experiment with weed in that sense, and if it worked it would be helpful to have some sort of automated system with two flowering chambers on opposite schedules, each vented into the other at certain times. That way the heat of the lights would not be wasted.

2. Is there such a thing as a terminal block with all the screws on each side hooked together? It seems like this would be useful. To wire multiple lights on one circuit you'd just hook up the live black and white wires to the end screws and each light could be wired up to a screw on each side. Then you wouldn't have to mess with sticking three wires in a bunch of wirenuts (just guessing at the name of the bright colored things that you screw wires into to connect them) in order to hook up each light and have another wire running to the next light. My real question here is if I'm missing some basic concept. It seems dumb that each screw on a terminal block would just hook up to the screw across from it - you could just use a wirenut. But when I look at a terminal block that's how it appears to work.

I have other questions, but they seem like they'd be more common and I will search for the answer before bothering you.

Thanks again.


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## Luv2Gro (Feb 13, 2010)

Okay guys i have a question that i've been working on in my head and on paper and researching for days... What i want to do is wire both a speed controller and thermostat to my centrifugal fan so that the fan would always run at say, 25% to keep negative pressure in the room, then when thermostat kicks on at 79 the fan would kick in to full power until tstat kicks back out at 75...
I'm pretty sure i have this correct and please correct me if I'm wrong... 
1) I'll have 3 wire coming into j box from a 120v outlet: bl, wh, gr, I'll tie black together with black goin to speed control and black to tstat. 
2)White will be tied into wh from cent fan.
3)Ground from breaker will be tied to ground from fan.
4)White coming back from tstat (will be marked w black tape) and tied into white (w/blk tape) coming back frm speed controller and black (hot) going to fan...

Just wanting to make sure this is the correct configuration... Also, this fan is a 4" centrifugal and pulls only 1 amp, i'm assuming it would be ok to just us 14/2 ext cord to do wiring from tstat to jbox etc..??

sorry if this is very unclear... maybe i need to smoke another bowl...


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## buggin69 (Feb 13, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> its the water that can become energized... if theres shitty soldering or oxidized pipes in the system between the bonding point and the entry point that act as a slight resistor, the dissolved salts in the water becomes the conductor and the current travels through the water to wherever it needs to go to dissapate. since drains, septics and sewers often create excellent earth grounds, the current can travel through the water in the pipes and out the faucet of a sink or whatever and then down the drain to the sewer/septic to dissapate in mother earth. if you happened to be using that sink or whatever, x amount of amps of fault current just traveled through your ass.
> 
> the reason you have to bond within 6 feet of entry is that 6' of copper is a very short path to travel for fault current to get to earth, whereas if you bonded somewhere else in the structure, it could be 60-200 feet of water line before you get to ground, with alot of joints in between and changes of direction....
> 
> ps- i wouldnt run a load on that outlet either..  2 wires to me says knob and tubing....



are you guys talking about electric water?

buddy of mine does rental properties for a living... he had a tenant call him one time and tell him her water hurt... he figured the water heater was turned up too high or something and goes over there... turns teh water on and sticks his hand in and sure enough gets a solid shock... he said it wasn't like a full 120 hit at an outlet or something... but it wasn't good at all... and this lady was washing her dishes like this for weeks apparently... ended up being a bare wire laying on a copper pipe


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## IAm5toned (Feb 13, 2010)

thats exactly what i was talking about


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## savage17 (Feb 13, 2010)

permalink

I have a 30 Amp timer box from sunlight supply--- i have it pluged into my dryer to the the 220 an i have 4 1000 watt lights with digital ballest an the timers box came with a timer an for some reason when I set the time on it for OFF an ON the lights dont come on nor shut off--- the timer box comes with 4 -240 receptacles an 2- 120 volt receptacles--- there are 2 cords coming out the the box one plugs in to the the dryer socket an the other into the wall to get power an I have the timer plugged into the timer box--- i am not sure what I am doing wrong-- can someone help thanks --------


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## IAm5toned (Feb 13, 2010)

Luv2Gro said:


> Okay guys i have a question that i've been working on in my head and on paper and researching for days... What i want to do is wire both a speed controller and thermostat to my centrifugal fan so that the fan would always run at say, 25% to keep negative pressure in the room, then when thermostat kicks on at 79 the fan would kick in to full power until tstat kicks back out at 75...
> I'm pretty sure i have this correct and please correct me if I'm wrong...
> 1) I'll have 3 wire coming into j box from a 120v outlet: bl, wh, gr, I'll tie black together with black goin to speed control and black to tstat.
> 2)White will be tied into wh from cent fan.
> ...


i dont think that will work...

you need a single pole relay with a 120v coil to make that work:


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## Luv2Gro (Feb 13, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> i dont think that will work...
> 
> you need a single pole relay with a 120v coil to make that work:


hmmm... well on al b fucts harvest every 2 weeks tutorial he explains hooking them up... this is the diagram...

I'm not sure 100% this will work but assuming both the controller and the temp sensor are the same phase (which they are) then wouldn't the 120v from the tstat override the 30v from the speed controller when it kicks on??

I could be wrong here... Nebody else have any ideas?? Do i need a relay?? Thanks so much...


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## Luv2Gro (Feb 14, 2010)

i do see what ur saying tho iamstoned... what u are saying would def work too... I'm not sure where to get one of these, and am still wondering if my idea of just wiring tstat and fsc in parallel would work.. i have both on order, the tstat and fsc so we shall see i guess...
nebody else have an idea... thanks..


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## IAm5toned (Feb 14, 2010)

i put the relay in as a preventative measure, ive never tried it myself so i wasnt sure if the line voltage backfeed would damage the speed control or not... if al b fuct is willing to put his name on it id say give it a go.


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## mrmadcow (Feb 14, 2010)

slint42 said:


> 1. Relay idea. Is there such a thing as a relay that would be controlled by 110V current? So that you could have one timer, and certain things would come one when the others went off. For instance, one could have two 12/12 grow chambers, completely isolated from light leakage, that would be light/dark at exactly opposite times.


its called a flip flop relay(search the term) & it will work but to do it right,you need a second timer to shut off power to the ballast for 1/2 per day-running 24/7 is bad for a ballast,it needs a cooldown time


slint42 said:


> 2. Is there such a thing as a terminal block with all the screws on each side hooked together? It seems like this would be useful. To wire multiple lights on one circuit you'd just hook up the live black and white wires to the end screws and each light could be wired up to a screw on each side. Then you wouldn't have to mess with sticking three wires in a bunch of wirenuts.


might be, I never saw one but life is easier just putting 3-4 wires under 1 wirenut so I never bothered to look for something like that


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## mrmadcow (Feb 14, 2010)

savage17 said:


> permalink
> 
> I have a 30 Amp timer box from sunlight supply--- i have it pluged into my dryer to the the 220 an i have 4 1000 watt lights with digital ballest an the timers box came with a timer an for some reason when I set the time on it for OFF an ON the lights dont come on nor shut off--


call sunlight supply,either it has an override switch that is on to keep the lights on regardless of timer or it is defective


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 14, 2010)

Luv2Gro said:


> i do see what ur saying tho iamstoned... what u are saying would def work too... I'm not sure where to get one of these, and am still wondering if my idea of just wiring tstat and fsc in parallel would work.. i have both on order, the tstat and fsc so we shall see i guess...
> nebody else have an idea... thanks..


I say just get a properly sized fan and ditch the speed control. 

Most AC motors don't like the speed controls much. They will work, but will hum and die sooner. How much sooner is upto the quality of the motor and its design. (correct way is a VFD, but thats a motor made for a VFD and controler a minimum of $200 and overkill)

A S&P TD series have lugs for 2 speeds, I'd prefer that.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 14, 2010)

slint42 said:


> Thank you for doing this, sir. I'll admit I have not read all 159 pages, but I have some questions in my mind so I'm going to see if you are kind enough to answer them. I am an electrical idiot, and so far my growing is just in theory.
> 
> 1. Relay idea. Is there such a thing as a relay that would be controlled by 110V current? So that you could have one timer, and certain things would come one when the others went off. For instance, one could have two 12/12 grow chambers, completely isolated from light leakage, that would be light/dark at exactly opposite times. One advantage of this would be to eliminate the security issue of power companies detecting big 12/12 cycles of current usage (I read that they do this, but I don't know if it is true).
> 
> ...


you can run 2 lamps off of one ballast but it requires some specialty parts that are not cheap. youll need a double pole single throw relay, a one-shot timer, and some type of a lighting controller or control panel to act as a logic gate. those three components are going to run you a pretty penny indeed. it also works _alot _better if you use digital ballasts over magnetic, as the restrike/cooldown period is significantly shorter for a digital ballast. one of the disadvantages of running a system like this is your 12/12 is going to drift by 15-30 mins everyday, because of the cooldown period that the ballast needs. this in fact will mess up alot of people because they need there setups to come on or off at specific times for whatever reason.
here's a concept design i made a while back to run two lamps on one ballast, maybe it will give you a better idea of how its done. as you can see, its not as simple as it sounds. the reason being that running 2 lamps on one balllast is hard on the ballast, and certain steps have to be taken to ensure proper operation over the course of time, unless you want your ballast to shit the bed after 6 months for running continuously. this design is expensive, but will last years if properly applied.







as far as terminal strips, what your looking for are called 'terminal jumpers' they make as many different types and sizes of terminal jumpers, the best ones go across the middle of the terminal so that you have both top and bottom lugs to connect to.
the reason we use terminal strips is primarily vibration, which is almost nonexistant in a grow op. terminal strips are usually found in control panels, which often have transformers, vfd's, relays, contactors, all sorts of things that create mechanical movement and minute vibrations. these same vibrations turn into harmonics, and cause wirenuts to loosen over time. the terminal strip provides enough mechanical pressure to ensure that the wires do not vibrate loose from those harmonics. also they provide a cheap interface between tough field wiring and delicate expensive controls, and simplify wire and cable identification, which can be priceless in a cabinet with hundreds and sometimes thousands of individual wires.

they also make things look really neat, lol.


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## T.H.Cammo (Feb 14, 2010)

I'm thinking about a new light set-up. I want to use 4 x 150 watt Ceramic Metal Halide bulbs. This project is part Trial - part Experiment, so cheapness is my Prime Directive. That leaves me with HPS "Ballast Replacement Kits" as the only reasonable option.

The problem I'm having is that all the CMH bulbs call for the ballast to be ANSI # "_Yada-yada-yada_" - but all the friggin' HPS Ballast Kits I find are designated ANSI # "_Something different_".

I understand that CMH bulbs are meant to be driven by, non digital, HPS type ballasts, I'm even matching the correct wattage between bulb and ballast kit. _*What gives*_?

My question is, what the hell do these different ANSI numbers mean - and is this something I should worry about?


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## IAm5toned (Feb 14, 2010)

yes, it is something you should worry about.
the ansi numbers are a cross reference id # for matching bulbs with ballasts. 
the different bulb type can tell you what type of ballast the lamp requires...
for example 2 common mh lamp types, m58, and m83, are both MH halide lamps, but require different ballast types. the m58 is a probe start, and the m83 is a pulse start.

CMH lamps are pulse start

ps/hint-
try googling this:
ANSI #(_insert lamp ANSI number here_) (_insert lamp wattage_)watt ballast


for future reference:
Common Ballast ANSI codes for HID lighting.


Mercury Vapor
H46 - 50 watt standard MV
H43 - 75 watt standard MV
H36 - 100 watt standard MV
H42 - 125 watt standard MV (European MV and some high pressure sodium lamps*)
H39 - 175 watt standard MV (Some high pressure sodium lamps*)
H37 - 250 watt standard MV (Some high pressure sodium lamps*)
H33 - 400 watt standard MV (Some high pressure sodium lamps*)
H36 - 1000 watt standard MV (Some high pressure sodium lamps*)


Low Pressure sodium
L69 - 18 watt LPS (SOX/SOX-E)
L70 - 35 watt LPS (SOX/SOX-E)
L71 - 55 watt LPS (SOX/SOX-E)
L72 - 90 watt LPS (SOX/SOX-E)
L73 - 135 watt LPS (SOX/SOX-E)
L74 - 180 watt LPS (SOX/SOX-E)


High Pressure Sodium
S76 - 35 watt standard HPS
S104 - 50 watt White SON
S68 - 50 watt standard HPS
S62 - 70 watt standard HPS
S105 - 100 watt White SON
S54 - 100 watt standard HPS
S55 - 150 watt (55 volt) standard HPS
S56 - 150 watt (100 volt) standard HPS (European SON/HPS lamps)
S66 - 200 watt standard HPS
S50 - 250 watt standard HPS (some metal halide*)
S51 - 400 watt standard HPS (some metal halide and European metal halide*)
SON AGRO - 430 watt SON
S106 - 600 watt standard HPS
S111 - 750 watt standard HPS
S52 - 1000 watt standard HPS


Metal Halide
M130 - 35/39 watt MH
M110 - 50 watt MH (standard and pulse start)
M85 - 70 watt MH (double-ended and BiPin lamps)
M98 - 70 watt MH (standard, pulse start, and operates some double - ended and BiPin lamps)
M139 - 70 watt MH (ceramic metal halide, some double - ended, and some BiPin lamps)
M90 - 100 watt MH (standard, pulse start, and operates some double - ended lamps)
M91 - 100 watt MH (double-ended and BiPin lamps)
M140 - 100 watt MH (ceramic metal halide, some double - ended, and some BiPin lamps)
M81 - 150 watt MH (double - ended and BiPin lamps)
M102 - 150 watt MH (standard, pulse start, and operates some double - ended and BiPin lamps)
M142 - 150 watt MH (ceramic metal halide, some double - ended, and some BiPin lamps)
M107 - 150 watt MH (energy saving probe start / Replaces 175 watt probe start lamps)
M137 - 175 watt MH (pulse start and some European lamps*)
M57 - 175 watt MH (standard probe start and some high pressure sodium lamps*)
M58 - 250 watt MH (standard probe start and some high pressure sodium lamps*)
M80 - 250 watt MH (double-ended and some European lamps*)
M138 - 250 watt MH (pulse start and some European bulbs*)
M59 - 400 watt MH (standard probe start and some high pressure sodium lamps*)
M135 - 400 watt MH (pulse start and some European lamps*)
M128 - 400 watt MH (pulse start lamps)
M47 - 1000 watt MH (standard probe start and some high pressure sodium lamps*)
M141 - 1000 watt MH (pulse start, double ended, and operates some European lamps)
M48 - 1500 watt MH (probe start lamps)
M133 - 1500 watt MH (pulse start, double-ended and some European lamps)
M134 - 2000 watt MH (pulse start - double-ended lamps)
*Note: Conversion bulbs


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## gwhunran (Feb 14, 2010)

I bought a inline vent fan booster. I believe its normally used in homes with long vent runs to just help things along. The fan comes with three wires hanging off of it. I was thinking of just using a three wire extention cord and cutting the female end off and just hard wiring to it. Then I will just plug it into a timer to cycle on and off. 

I will be using a can fan with my HPS light and vent it on both ends. One end to bring in fresh the other to exhaust the light heated air.

If the former idea sounds good then that will be my method of bringing in, and exhausting grow room air in both the veg and flower room, with the canfan handling the light.

What do you think?


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## savage17 (Feb 15, 2010)

i have an ecoplus digital timer an I plugged it into the wall to charge it that is what it said to do at first an I did that-- then I wanted to try it out on a lamp an see if it worked an it didnt-- I bought a whole kit the 30 amp timer kit--- have 4-240 outlits an 2 - 120 outlits---- an coming out the the 30 amp timer box is one that goes to the dryer an the other cold that powers the 2 outlits on the 30 amp timer box--- i know that u plug the timer into the wall an not into the 30 amp box-- then u plug the 120 cord into the timer but it didnt turn my lights on nor shut then off-


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## buggin69 (Feb 15, 2010)

savage17 said:


> i have an ecoplus digital timer an I plugged it into the wall to charge it that is what it said to do at first an I did that-- then I wanted to try it out on a lamp an see if it worked an it didnt-- I bought a whole kit the 30 amp timer kit--- have 4-240 outlits an 2 - 120 outlits---- an coming out the the 30 amp timer box is one that goes to the dryer an the other cold that powers the 2 outlits on the 30 amp timer box--- i know that u plug the timer into the wall an not into the 30 amp box-- then u plug the 120 cord into the timer but it didnt turn my lights on nor shut then off-



even though i'm not exactly sure what you're saying let me say this...

first things first... if the timer isn't working by itself then solve that problem first. If your timer isn't working then you're light controller is going to fail.

second... to install the timer box (electrical box with breakers and outlets) you need to have a free 30amp dryer outlet (not sharing the one your dryer uses) to plug this box into... that powers the entire outlet area... both 240 and 120 volt

the timer needs to be plugged into an outlet that is not part of this system at all... it will need a separate 120 volt power source... this is the trigger cord and when it senses power a relay inside the timer box (big electrical box) will turn on power to the 120 and 240 receptacles below

so to summarize

figure out how to work the timer... plug in the dryer outlet to a free 30 amp dryer plug... plug in the timer to a free 120 volt outlet that isn't part of this system... plug in the 120 volt cord from this system into the "timed" side of the timer


http://www.nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/gardening_supplies.aspx?request=30_AMP_TIMER_BOX&title=Timers __ Instruments&type=product

product manual at the bottom of the page


http://www.nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/gardening_supplies.aspx?request=ECO_PLUS_DIGITAL_PLUG-IN_TIMER&title=Timers __ Instruments&type=product
from the bottom of the digital timer page: "Helpful hint: If not functioning properly. Plug in for 5 minutes and press the reset button. This generally fixes any problem."



oh and it looks like this timer might have dual timed outlets.. meaning the timer controls each side separately... not sure on that... but you should keep it in mind


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## jocko21 (Feb 16, 2010)

I want to branch of a 30 amp 220v line to power an extra set of lights. My question is if it is okay to branch off the existing to gain an extra 220 outlet, much like you can do with 110 outlets. My plan is to put a J-box in midline and branch off of that. Total amount of lights on that circuit would be 4 x 1000w HPS. 

Thank you for providing your expertise you provide a valuable and important service.


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## mrmadcow (Feb 16, 2010)

jocko21 said:


> I want to branch of a 30 amp 220v line to power an extra set of lights..


by code, no.& its not a good idea either way...but.... what is already on that circiut? if it is in use, then not unless you can make sure that the other appliance wont run when your lights are on. if its a stove or cloths dryer that you only use when the lights are out,it will work until someone turns it on when lights are on & pops the breaker. a hotwater heater will kick on at random so that wont work. sorry best to run to the box & add a breaker


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## jocko21 (Feb 16, 2010)

mrmadcow said:


> by code, no.& its not a good idea either way...but.... what is already on that circiut? if it is in use, then not unless you can make sure that the other appliance wont run when your lights are on. if its a stove or cloths dryer that you only use when the lights are out,it will work until someone turns it on when lights are on & pops the breaker. a hotwater heater will kick on at random so that wont work. sorry best to run to the box & add a breaker


Thanks for the fast reply. 

I thought so. My plan is to run 2 x 1000w in flower room, and 1 x 1000w mh in veg room off of that 30 amp circuit initially. My new question is should I run two 15 amp 220 breakers to each room? and then can I add a 20 amp 110v breaker to sub panel being fed from main service 30 amp breaker that I intend to add. I will run either 10/3 or 8/3 from main box to sub panel.
As a Gen. Contractor in NorCal I have alot of experience w/110v (doesn't hurt much) but have always referred to electricians when it comes to 220v, scared me. I'm going to get some cajones, good advice and get-r-done. Hopefully in that order.

Your help is greatly appreciated.


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## wyteboi (Feb 16, 2010)

Hey bubbz, 5toned, hope you guys are doin alright 
Got a question. I was told by a older guy years ago , that if you balance the load on the 2 phases then the power bill would be lower. He said because the neutral has no load on it, it could somehow save money?
Was he just thinkin there would be less resistance on the neutral...... or is there no truth to this at all ?
Thanks guys!


wb


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 16, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> Hey bubbz, 5toned, hope you guys are doin alright
> Got a question. I was told by a older guy years ago , that if you balance the load on the 2 phases then the power bill would be lower. He said because the neutral has no load on it, it could somehow save money?
> Was he just thinkin there would be less resistance on the neutral...... or is there no truth to this at all ?
> Thanks guys!
> wb


Well it falls under the whole 110 vs 220 cost issue. There *is* an *ultra slight* savings for 220, but you will never see it in a bill. (more in the abstract theoretical aspect of efficiency)

The power company doesn't charge via the neutral line, but the HOTs. They only supply a neutral to deal with a floating ground or phase imbalance (on voltage). Neutral *should* be zero volts, so how much of nothing are you using? (Neutral will be zero volts compared to the P-P of the hot(s), but *possibly* not zero to ground, hence the *single* point bonding of neutral and ground at the panel)

Now balancing the 2 phases is still a good thing to do. (maybe I'm old school and still not an electrician) But keeping things even (as possible) is just good practice.


(5toned can fill in the missing pieces and correct me)

Edit: It *might* be true for older wheel meters, but a digital not so much. (but then even the wheel meter use neutral as the reference so all bets are off) And if they did use the neutral then *all* 220 would be free since neutral isn't used. (main reason why *I* say that the US 220 supply *IS* 2 phase, but the device using it is single phase)


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## cbreeze (Feb 16, 2010)

*220/240 ground - neutral question*

I'm intending to run digital 1000w & 600w ballasts from a 3-wire 240volt dryer circuit. 2 hot wires & 1 neutral. I was going to put 240v connector on end of a dryer cord so that I could just plug my 240v timer into that. The dryer cord has "2 hots & 1 neutral", the connector has "2 hots & 1 ground". so...

safe to use the 'neutral' wire as the 'ground' wire? safe for all the time use?


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## wyteboi (Feb 16, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Well it falls under the whole 110 vs 220 cost issue. There *is* an *ultra slight* savings for 220, but you will never see it in a bill. (more in the abstract theoretical aspect of efficiency)
> 
> The power company doesn't charge via the neutral line, but the HOTs. They only supply a neutral to deal with a floating ground or phase imbalance (on voltage). Neutral *should* be zero volts, so how much of nothing are you using? (Neutral will be zero volts compared to the P-P of the hot(s), but *possibly* not zero to ground, hence the *single* point bonding of neutral and ground at the panel)
> 
> ...


well i have downgraded myself to a residential wire guy who is capable of making everything safe and per code. '
AND NOTHING MORE. 
i do have a wheel meter , but i am with you , i dont think the neutral could have anything to do with it. 
(sorry but i am very bad with electrical lingo and all lingo for that matter) I was testing amps when i evened it all out. how would i test volts , i know the neutral is "bonded" so neutral to ground wont work , correct?

thanks bubbz


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## wyteboi (Feb 16, 2010)

cbreeze said:


> *220/240 ground - neutral question*
> 
> I'm intending to run digital 1000w & 600w ballasts from a 3-wire 240volt dryer circuit. 2 hot wires & 1 neutral. I was going to put 240v connector on end of a dryer cord so that I could just plug my 240v timer into that. The dryer cord has "2 hots & 1 neutral", the connector has "2 hots & 1 ground". so...
> 
> safe to use the 'neutral' wire as the 'ground' wire? safe for all the time use?


I would say yes with those lights it should be safe to run it that way, BUT i would stick around and let someone else tell you the correct way.

wb


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## sherriberry (Feb 16, 2010)

can a dimmer switch be applied to a sump pump, and not hurt the pump and slow down the flow?

i have 2 identical pumps, and id like to be able to slow one of them down if that makes sense.

Thanks


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## wyteboi (Feb 16, 2010)

sherriberry said:


> can a dimmer switch be applied to a sump pump, and not hurt the pump and slow down the flow?
> 
> i have 2 identical pumps, and id like to be able to slow one of them down if that makes sense.
> 
> Thanks


yes that makes sense , but i am not sure a dimmer switch is the best option. It will dim the power to the motor but i dont think it will slow down the flow and might cause damage to the pumps? someone else on here can answer that one for ya.


wb


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## BBQChicken (Feb 16, 2010)

I'm in need of some 12 or 14 aug copper grounding wire, bare. Any lengths would do, any suggestions other than buying it by the wheel?


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## IAm5toned (Feb 17, 2010)

buy it by the foot......


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## IAm5toned (Feb 17, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> Hey bubbz, 5toned, hope you guys are doin alright
> Got a question. I was told by a older guy years ago , that if you balance the load on the 2 phases then the power bill would be lower. He said because the neutral has no load on it, it could somehow save money?
> Was he just thinkin there would be less resistance on the neutral...... or is there no truth to this at all ?
> Thanks guys!
> ...


on paper, it is possible, so your friend was correct.
except in reality there are so many variables that it is literally next to impossible to get an actual balanced load. and its not that you save any power, you just waste _less_ power...


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## IAm5toned (Feb 17, 2010)

sherriberry said:


> can a dimmer switch be applied to a sump pump, and not hurt the pump and slow down the flow?
> 
> i have 2 identical pumps, and id like to be able to slow one of them down if that makes sense.
> 
> Thanks


no, a dimmer will burn up the motor and then you will be pissed.

you need a motor speed controller.
if its a big pump you really need a variable frequency drive.
to be totally honest, unless your wanting to slow down the flow for noise reasons, the cheapest route is to rig up a pump/bypass valve...
come off the pump with a t fitting, on one side of the tee connect the supply line (pipe going out to trays/buckets/dwc/ whatever etc) on the other side of the t, install a simple cut off valve, and use the valve to adjust the pressure in the line, so that when you have the vavle cracked, the excess simply drains back into the rez your pumping from. pretty simple and def cheap.... it wasnt me that came up with it, i saw it on one of heathrobinson's thread. but ill steal a good idea in a minute, its the american way, lol....


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## IAm5toned (Feb 17, 2010)

jocko21 said:


> I want to branch of a 30 amp 220v line to power an extra set of lights. My question is if it is okay to branch off the existing to gain an extra 220 outlet, much like you can do with 110 outlets. My plan is to put a J-box in midline and branch off of that. Total amount of lights on that circuit would be 4 x 1000w HPS.
> 
> Thank you for providing your expertise you provide a valuable and important service.


there is no code that says you cannot do this.
there is a code that says the wire you add has to be rated for the same amperage as the wire your tying into.... so if the 30amp circuit has #10, then you must use #10 on the new wire.

there is no limit to how many branch circuits/outlets you can have on a circuit.
as a matter of fact, when dealing with electricity the 5 major limiting factors are (in no particular orer) rated amperage, ambient temp, distance, required overcurrent protection and required voltage. stay within those catagories and you almost cant go wrong. on paper, you could pull 10,000 amps on one circuit, and put 100,000 20 amp outlets on the same circuit, and that circuit could even be 25 miles long... but only if the right sized wire and breakers were used. years ago when dinosaurs roamed the earth and electricians still made more money than mexican drywallers, when i was in school, one of my instructors' fav tricks to keep the class occupied for time leftover after each lesson was to ask the damndest questions and have the class look up the answers. one of those questions was how many outlets can you have on one circuit?
answer? limitless. there is no code that specifies a given number of outlets.

just because i just said that however doesnt make _you_ a junior electrician.

electricity is a strange and funny beast, it can be lethally complicated, deceptively simple,has neverending possiblilties and behaves by its own, unique set of rules, which take many years to understand, and many more to master.


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## wyteboi (Feb 17, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> on paper, it is possible, so your friend was correct.
> except in reality there are so many variables that it is literally next to impossible to get an actual balanced load. and its not that you save any power, you just waste _less_ power...


So if i had 25 amps running through the neutral then i got it down to 3, then was i actually wasting 22 amps? (or if this is way too complicated for me then dont worry about it)
main question is , where is the "waste"?
Thanks as always 5toned! 


wb


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## jiesstonedalot (Feb 17, 2010)

hi looked enough ,cant find answer , i have just got a 600w light and ballast , my question is, can i put in my 400w light and if i do will the ballast just act as a 400w or should i stick with the 600w bulb i have , looking for cheapest option 
cheers john


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## myxedup (Feb 17, 2010)

First off Bricktown, I would like to thank you for making yourself available to the RIU community like this. 

I've in the past read up to around page 30 of this forum and didn't see my problem covered and so I would like to ask real quick.

I'm making a subpanel for all of my electricity needs and my plan was to just ground into my main panels ground bar as it's only 2' away from where my subpanel will be.

I know that code says that I must drive a new stake for a ground for a subpanel but as my panel will be 75 amps or less and they are so close together, will it be entirely necessary to go through that in order to avoid a fire and what not or can I get away safely with grounding into my main panel?

Thanks in advance,
MyxedUp


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 17, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> well i have downgraded myself to a residential wire guy who is capable of making everything safe and per code. '
> AND NOTHING MORE.
> i do have a wheel meter , but i am with you , i dont think the neutral could have anything to do with it.
> (sorry but i am very bad with electrical lingo and all lingo for that matter) I was testing amps when i evened it all out. how would i test volts , i know the neutral is "bonded" so neutral to ground wont work , correct?
> ...


You shouldn't need to worry much about volt. You will get a slight voltage drop, but nothing to really hurt anything. Just knowing its 120 240 or nothing (I get fooled a lot when its nothing, I always double check for that little 'mv' at the end of the display, millivolts, always seems to have some


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 17, 2010)

sherriberry said:


> can a dimmer switch be applied to a sump pump, and not hurt the pump and slow down the flow?
> 
> i have 2 identical pumps, and id like to be able to slow one of them down if that makes sense.
> 
> Thanks


Better off just using a T fitting and back feeding unwanted liquid. Can adjust by using different tubing for the wanted/unwanted parts of the 'T'


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## IAm5toned (Feb 17, 2010)

myxedup said:


> First off Bricktown, I would like to thank you for making yourself available to the RIU community like this.
> 
> I've in the past read up to around page 30 of this forum and didn't see my problem covered and so I would like to ask real quick.
> 
> ...



run seperate wires for both the neutral, and the ground, and you will be fine.

usually you only have to have a ground rod when it is a seperate structure like a shed or unattached garage


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## myxedup (Feb 17, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> run seperate wires for both the neutral, and the ground, and you will be fine.
> 
> usually you only have to have a ground rod when it is a seperate structure like a shed or unattached garage


I was planning on using 2/2/2/4 Aluminum with only 75 amps running through with the neutral bar to neutral bar(obviously) and ground bar to ground bar. 

I'd show pics but I just switched comps and no longer have a card reader built in so I have to pick one up first.

Everything sounds straight though, correct?


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## IAm5toned (Feb 17, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> So if i had 25 amps running through the neutral then i got it down to 3, then was i actually wasting 22 amps? (or if this is way too complicated for me then dont worry about it)
> main question is , where is the "waste"?
> Thanks as always 5toned!
> 
> ...


it has to do with the way a/c works. even after the electricity has passed through your device and done its 'job' additional volt-amps are used up by the current running down the neutral and dissapating into earth.

when you have a balanced load, the volt/amps travel across phases and help power other devices on the opposite phase. 

ill give a simple but somewhat complicated explanation...

at peak voltage on a 120/240 service, you have 177 volts positive on phase one, and 177 volts negative polarity on phase 2...

now lets pretend there are to devices on that service, one on phase 1, one on phase 2. both devices pull 10 amps, balanced load... when the device one phase 1 uses 10 amps of _positive current_, the device on phase 2 uses 10 amps of _negative current. _ ( b4 i go further, think of a train, constantly going one distance in one direction, then reversing and traveling the same distance backwards, repeating the cycle endlessly, that is alternating current... the cars of the train would be individual electrons) now because you have 2 phases at opposite polarity, the energy that would normally be used to carry the load down the neutral, to the panel, outside your house to the power companies pole, will instead do something rather remarkable, at the panel, where the load would normally go outside, instead travels _back up_ the neutral and is used tpo power devices on the opposite phase.... if you had one device on phase 1 that pulled 12 amps, and a device on phase 2 that pulled 10 amps, then you would have 2 amps of unbalanced current running down the neutral.... make sense?


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## myxedup (Feb 17, 2010)

Breakdown of my subpanel that I purchased:

1 Neutral- White Wire
1 Ground- Bare wire
2 Hot wires- 1 red, 1 black

I can run both 120 circuits as well as 240, correct? That's the whole purpose behind the alternating posts for the breakers if I understand it. 

Please help me as I am very concerned with safety here but inviting an inspector in to look at this really isn't too much of an option.

Thanks in advance.


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## buggin69 (Feb 17, 2010)

myxedup said:


> Breakdown of my subpanel that I purchased:
> 
> 1 Neutral- White Wire
> 1 Ground- Bare wire
> ...


yes, you got the right one from the sound of it


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## IAm5toned (Feb 17, 2010)

myxedup said:


> I was planning on using 2/2/2/4 Aluminum with only 75 amps running through with the neutral bar to neutral bar(obviously) and ground bar to ground bar.
> 
> I'd show pics but I just switched comps and no longer have a card reader built in so I have to pick one up first.
> 
> Everything sounds straight though, correct?


sounds like you have a good grasp of whats going on.

jusr dont forget the NoALox


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## myxedup (Feb 18, 2010)

The NoAlox only needs to be used on the main feeds or should I be using it on all aluminum connections including neutral bus and ground?

Also, if i understand it correctly, for main panels, you use a bonding screw on the neutral bus to attach it to the box which is grounded. However, on a subpanel, you need to leave that bonding screw out, correct?

In order to free up room in my main panel, I need to pull off 2 20 amp single poles and then run those into the subpanel. In order to do this with the panel flush mounted, I need to splice those 2 (12/2 romex) in order to reach the box where I want it, mainly above my predetermined water line. That's not really an issue as it's really simple to do. I'm curious though, can I still put fiberglass insulation down under my main panel where the wire is running, or should I just let there be a thermal leak?

Thanks for all the help here though. I do a ton of research on stuff before I typically begin a project but I would really hate to overlook something simple and end up paying dire consequences.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 18, 2010)

myxedup said:


> The NoAlox only needs to be used on the main feeds or should I be using it on all aluminum connections including neutral bus and ground?
> 
> Also, if i understand it correctly, for main panels, you use a bonding screw on the neutral bus to attach it to the box which is grounded. However, on a subpanel, you need to leave that bonding screw out, correct?
> 
> ...


looks like you have done some homework, and it shows!

use noalox on all aluminum terminations, even wirenuts.

_Never_ bond a subpanel. the only electrical panel in any building, regardless of size, that is bonded, is the main panel. Larger transformers also require bonding but thats kinda irrelevant here. so definitly leave the screw out.

dont be shy using insulation nder the panel. no need for an expensive thermal leak. however dont pack it in too tightly, it is better that the insulation is loose than tight as a general rule of thumb, so cut it to fit if you need to. a thing to keep in mind- brekaers get warm, its what they do, so again, avoid overinsulating around the electrical panel... it will save you money in the long run and spare you aggravation if you use less insulaiton than more, because in a decade or so if you go nuts with the pink shit, because in warmer climates your breakers will start failing due to high ambient temps in the summer...(heat wont dissapate fast enough)

but it seems liek you have a good grasp on things


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## EvlMunkee (Feb 18, 2010)

Hello all,
This is my first post here. I have been reading the threads for several weeks and finally decided to register a few days ago.
For the most part, I will always search first for what I want to know but I thought in this case I should ask a couple of questions regarding my planned electrical system.
I am going to supply power to a cab that I will start to build tomorrow. I want to make it plug and play so that the system can be easily moved. I would like to get a 14ga cord to enter the box from a receptacle. It is on a 20 amp circuit that is only supplying about 400 watts as of now to various items. When the cord enters the box I will install 2 -2x4 boxes with 15A GFCI receptacles and 14/3 Romex going from the first to the second 2x4 box. I will plug in a 15 A/1720w surge protector/timer with 4 timed and 4 constant. I will use the timer to power up my lights and one of the exhaust fans ( 108 cfm computer fan with ac/dc adapter ). On the constant side I will have 2 more exhaust fans like the first and 2 intake fans ( 80mm 34 cfm) off of one 5 channel controller. I will also run a small circulation fan off of the constant side. So far that is no more than 400 watts but at some time in the future I may add some pumps to go Hydro and upgrade my lighting to about 600 watts total. I intend to run all wiring that will not be moved in Panduit. So here is what I figure so far;
600 watts max for lights
50 watts max for other items such as fans and pumps ( if I am not mistaken)
This should leave me with plenty of plug ins for any other small things I need to run.
Ok.....that's it in a nutshell. 
So can some one tell me, Is this a safe way to go? I will do whatever is necessary to make this thing as safe as I can and also stealthy.
I would sure appreciate some opinions and advice if possible before I start.
Thanks in advance


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## cbreeze (Feb 18, 2010)

cbreeze said:


> *220/240 ground - neutral question*
> 
> I'm intending to run digital 1000w & 600w ballasts from a 3-wire 240volt dryer circuit. 2 hot wires & 1 neutral. I was going to put 240v connector on end of a dryer cord so that I could just plug my 240v timer into that. The dryer cord has "2 hots & 1 neutral", the connector has "2 hots & 1 ground". so...
> 
> safe to use the 'neutral' wire as the 'ground' wire? safe for all the time use?


so is this safe? or should I run an extra ground?

thanks!


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## jocko21 (Feb 19, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> there is no code that says you cannot do this.
> there is a code that says the wire you add has to be rated for the same amperage as the wire your tying into.... so if the 30amp circuit has #10, then you must use #10 on the new wire.
> 
> there is no limit to how many branch circuits/outlets you can have on a circuit.
> ...


Thanks. I ended up running two double pole 15's to avoid branching so each set of lights will be on their own breakers. It was a cleaner install. Appreciate your input.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 19, 2010)

EvlMunkee said:


> Hello all,
> This is my first post here. I have been reading the threads for several weeks and finally decided to register a few days ago.
> For the most part, I will always search first for what I want to know but I thought in this case I should ask a couple of questions regarding my planned electrical system.
> I am going to supply power to a cab that I will start to build tomorrow. I want to make it plug and play so that the system can be easily moved. I would like to get a 14ga cord to enter the box from a receptacle. It is on a 20 amp circuit that is only supplying about 400 watts as of now to various items. When the cord enters the box I will install 2 -2x4 boxes with 15A GFCI receptacles and 14/3 Romex going from the first to the second 2x4 box. I will plug in a 15 A/1720w surge protector/timer with 4 timed and 4 constant. I will use the timer to power up my lights and one of the exhaust fans ( 108 cfm computer fan with ac/dc adapter ). On the constant side I will have 2 more exhaust fans like the first and 2 intake fans ( 80mm 34 cfm) off of one 5 channel controller. I will also run a small circulation fan off of the constant side. So far that is no more than 400 watts but at some time in the future I may add some pumps to go Hydro and upgrade my lighting to about 600 watts total. I intend to run all wiring that will not be moved in Panduit. So here is what I figure so far;
> ...


the only thing wrong with it is you should be using #12 where i highlighted in red.
#14 would work in a pinch, but if you ever decide to expand the op it will give you lots of problems, especially if you u/g yourlight to a 1000w down the road. using #12 now will save you aggravation later.
and its against code to run #14 on a 20 amp breaker too


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## IAm5toned (Feb 19, 2010)

cbreeze said:


> so is this safe? or should I run an extra ground?
> 
> thanks!



never use a neutral as a ground. never.
now that i said that i will refer you to this:



> You could utilize the exception to grounding which is allowed in the NEC for existing circuits which lets you reconnect the chassis ground to the neutral (ground) third conductor and change the cord set to a three prong cord - check to make sure your township has not superceded these allowances - the "authority having jurisdiction


what he says is that you must connect the neutral and the ground wires together _inside the light fixture box, THEN change the cord to a 3 wire 240v cord... then_ you can safely plug it in... 

(LIFE SAFETY WARNING! [Disclaimer] 
Electricity is dangerous! 
You can be injured or killed! 
Improper installations can cause fire, injury and death! 
Should you be doing this yourself.....


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## glyphen (Feb 19, 2010)

Hello electrical guru's, 


I have a novice question. I need to add an outlet and I was wandering if I can tap into the pullstring light in my basement to do it? 

The only other things on the circuit is my bathroom plug and light, and they never get used. Literally never use the plug, and once in awhile Ill turn on the light (60w)



Anyways,
Its a 20 amp circuit, and Ill be running a 400w light in my room, and about another 300w of other crap in my cab. Maybe 800w total, but on a 110 thats only 7.5ish amps so I should be good right? 

Anything I need to be aware of other then match the colors and put good nuts on every connection? 

Basically, I understand this is easy but my op wont be running for awhile yet and once it is opening up the drwall will be a pain in my ass so I wanna make sure I have it right the first time..


Thanx in advance, from one old hippie


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## BehindYou (Feb 19, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> there is no code that says you cannot do this.
> there is a code that says the wire you add has to be rated for the same amperage as the wire your tying into.... so if the 30amp circuit has #10, then you must use #10 on the new wire.
> 
> there is no limit to how many branch circuits/outlets you can have on a circuit. how many outlets can you have on one circuit?
> ...


WTF iam5stoned? Your answers are far from correct or not correct for the united states. Look up the code on the 10' tap rule and also the load for a receptacle is 180va unless it is larger or a single special purpose rec. You keep saying that it's ok by code but it's not. What code book are you going by?????


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## Hash67 (Feb 19, 2010)

Hi
I am running a 400 digital light and have had no problems in the first six weeks. Now it keeps going off, so I tried another ballast but it is still going off. Please can you advise. Thanks.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 19, 2010)

BehindYou said:


> WTF iam5stoned? Your answers are far from correct or not correct for the united states. Look up the code on the 10' tap rule and also the load for a receptacle is 180va unless it is larger or a single special purpose rec. You keep saying that it's ok by code but it's not. What code book are you going by?????


the code for a receptacle is 180 va huh...
maybe if your estimating for a service drop..... not for _definite purpose equipment_.
which is exactly what a damn grow op is.....

please dont lecture me on the codebook.

ps/edit:
and far as code goes, isnt a 30 amp 240v receptacle larger than a standard 120v 15amp outlet which the 180v/a is based on?
which is why you you have to do the kitchen and small appliance outlets seperately on the damn load calculation....
your kind of contradicting yourself here.


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## BehindYou (Feb 19, 2010)

Bypass the timer, does it go off? 
Did u change to 12/12 when u were high? Lol
change the lamp, most ballast have an overload device that will turn the ballast off if the load is to much. Old lights draw more current.


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## BehindYou (Feb 19, 2010)

Iam5toned,
people are asking for advice, if your going to be telling them it's ok to do by code and it is not your not helping. 
The code allows for diversity in the calculation of load in the kitchen and for plugmold. Your lack of the understanding of the electrical code means you bought a box of wirenuts once and put in a dimmer. Yes your an electrician but you don't have a building code book. 
The code is easy to use if you can read.


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## Hash67 (Feb 19, 2010)

Thanks. I will try a new bulb in the morning. It must be about two years old!


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## IAm5toned (Feb 19, 2010)

i would have you know i am a nicet level 3 technician, an est3 certified technician, and have probably forgotten enough to fill an ugly's book or 2.
right now i do inspection walkthroughs for high profile clients in the mid south, i deal with inspectors on a daily level on projects where significant amounts of capital are at stake, so please, again, im asking you nicely to not lecture me on codes.
i did a 5 year journeyman apprenticeship under some of the most strict and demanding electricians in the trade. that was 15 years ago, and where i live has some of the strictest building codes in the u.s, comparable to LA or NYC.
take your residential demand factors and stick to wiring houses.... i was running rigid when you were still playing with g.i. joes.
please dont try and insult me for helping people out.
no one has to take my advice, and if this is the type of flack i get for helping people out i guess i will just unsub this thread and YOU can deal with all the noobs.

have fun.


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## BehindYou (Feb 19, 2010)

Nicet not building code. Just state your response as your opion not a fact or code.


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## Coolvibes (Feb 19, 2010)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


Hi I tried running a 10volt charger connected to a 12 volt incandescent car headlight bulb as its 12 volts I thought the charger would power it 90 per cent creating light (well heat is what I want) now every think went fine for 2 hours then the charger stopped working so I found another 10volt charger and rewired it fantastic 3 hours charger burnt out can you explain what I am doing wrong please


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## BehindYou (Feb 19, 2010)

What is the rating of the charger you used? 
Headlights should run around 60watts.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 19, 2010)

BehindYou said:


> Nicet not building code. Just state your response as your opion not a fact or code.


you just showed your ignorance.

you know the people that write the NFPA, headquartered in quincy, mass, are all NICET certified.

the National Electrical code is just one small chapter of the NFPA...

anyways, this thread is yours


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## one11 (Feb 19, 2010)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *thepaan*  
_I'm pretty sure the distance from the electrical source provides negligible loss so you shouldn't count that in your cost estimate. Just use the chart above or find your kilowatt usage then multiply by the number of hours per month you plan on having it on then multiply again by the cost of a kilowatt hour for the area. That is your monthly cost. In the US it varies largely from state to state but about $.15 is average. For a 600W lamp .63 is the kilowatt use if the ballast is 95% efficient or .75 with one 80% efficient. If running for 14 hours a day you sould have the following._

_.63 x (14hours x 30days) x $.15 = $39.69_
_.75 x (14hours x 30days) x $.15 = $47.25_

_Some places (like where I live) have a pretty good cost as long as your total use is low but the price is doubled or even tripled once you go over a certain amount. For example, my first 100kWh/month cost like $.045 then it doubles every 100kWh. For a cost model like this you have to break out each cost bracket starting from what you use normally (without the lights). Thats why the dude above said look at your electric bill to get an accurate idea of the cost._
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


*good news. my state has one of the lowest cost per kilowatt hour. .10 cents. *
*And i did calculate it for vegging and it will be 34 dollars a month. not bad. but how would my ballast not be at 100% efficiency? and i NEED to know if i would be losing significant amount of energy/efficiency/or money due to the 250ft of wiring it has to travel to to the light and fans. *


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## Coolvibes (Feb 19, 2010)

BehindYou said:


> What is the rating of the charger you used?
> Headlights should run around 60watts.


 charger 1 stopped working input:239v 50hz 140ma output 10v 1.2a
charger 2 burnt out Input:100-240 50-60hz 150ma output: 4.9v 700ma
Bulb lamp incandescent 12v 100/80w H4


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## myxedup (Feb 19, 2010)

I feel bad for you guys with your electric costs. Only .07 here 
Costs $27 a month per 12 hour cycle 1k light.


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## EvlMunkee (Feb 19, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> the only thing wrong with it is you should be using #12 where i highlighted in red.
> #14 would work in a pinch, but if you ever decide to expand the op it will give you lots of problems, especially if you u/g yourlight to a 1000w down the road. using #12 now will save you aggravation later.
> and its against code to run #14 on a 20 amp breaker too


Thanks for your quick reply IAm5toned. You have saved me some work and made it safer. Y'all are doing a great job!


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## Coolvibes (Feb 19, 2010)

BehindYou said:


> What is the rating of the charger you used?
> Headlights should run around 60watts.


Hi people me again well its winter here and I have 4 metal cans with screw lids I am able to tin weld the lights under the cap feed the wires through the hole I ran this in my non heated propagator for 3 hours with a steady temp of 78f now in my roof space(winter) unless directly under lights it falls to 10c which isnt much good for propagation as you know now my flower room is 10c and worked out roughly it bring my temps back into the 70s at night with no light naked flame or cost so a work round on the power would be great I have a large selection of power sources can some one point me in the right direction I know I am nearly their what valuable bit of the puzzle am I missing as if resistance before the light a coil say would lower amps/watts/heat/light and would solve the problem?? Help


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## wyteboi (Feb 19, 2010)

5toned dont leave this thread, you are the man and know your electricity. There is a big difference in wiring a house/building and knowing what you are doing! 
Thanks

wb


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## wyteboi (Feb 19, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> it has to do with the way a/c works. even after the electricity has passed through your device and done its 'job' additional volt-amps are used up by the current running down the neutral and dissapating into earth.
> 
> when you have a balanced load, the volt/amps travel across phases and help power other devices on the opposite phase.
> 
> ...


 makes a ton of sense. Thanks


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## OGKush00 (Feb 19, 2010)

Ok, quick question. I am wanting to change the light in my attic into a socket that i could plug my hps and a couple fans into. Would this be possible, if so what would I need to do this? 

Here are some pix of what I have to work with.


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## wyteboi (Feb 19, 2010)

OGKush00 said:


> Ok, quick question. I am wanting to change the light in my attic into a socket that i could plug my hps and a couple fans into. Would this be possible, if so what would I need to do this?
> 
> Here are some pix of what I have to work with.


It is very possible but your gonna want to know what else might be on that circuit, and also how many watts/amps you will be using (lights, fans, ect...) and you need to know what size wire it is? 
other then that you will need a outlet to put in place of that light, you can use an adapter but i dont like um.....

sorry not very detailed answer 


wb


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## OGKush00 (Feb 19, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> It is very possible but your gonna want to know what else might be on that circuit, and also how many watts/amps you will be using (lights, fans, ect...) and you need to know what size wire it is?
> other then that you will need a outlet to put in place of that light, you can use an adapter but i dont like um.....
> 
> sorry not very detailed answer
> ...


Well the attic is right above my laundry room and bathroom, so i would assume it is on the same circuit as one of those, probably the laundry. As far as the light goes, I am wanting to completely remove the light and change that into the socket I would use for the HPS/fans. 

As far as the size of the wire I would have to go back up, but before I do.. What should I be looking for?


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## DnaK (Feb 19, 2010)

OGKush00 said:


> Well the attic is right above my laundry room and bathroom, so i would assume it is on the same circuit as one of those, probably the laundry. As far as the light goes, I am wanting to completely remove the light and change that into the socket I would use for the HPS/fans.
> 
> As far as the size of the wire I would have to go back up, but before I do.. What should I be looking for?



Without being able to look at what is holding the light fixture in its hard to say.

But NORMALLY you would just take the light off, add a "mudplate" (they sell multiple ones, this is used to hold the sockets) to the "electric box". I forget its real name.

i personally would run a dedicated circuit for a 600w hps and fans unless your sure nothing else uses it much.

Check to make sure the circuit is not a 20amp. Putting a 15 amp outlet on a 20 amp circuit is a no no. 

Also, make sure everything is grounded via the box or a ground wire. Ungrounded outlets are a hazard.

Your going to the hardware store to buy , mudplates, and 15 or 20 amp outlets. 20 amp outlets are preferred, and obviously are no problem on a 15 amp circuit. And possibly a little bit of 14 gauge wire to daisy chain to one other outlet.


That box looks wierd and possible non standard. An electric box with a wireclamp fitting would solve that problem.


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## buggin69 (Feb 19, 2010)

DnaK said:


> Check to make sure the circuit is not a 20amp. Putting a 15 amp outlet on a 20 amp circuit is a no no.
> 
> Your going to the hardware store to buy , mudplates, and 15 or 20 amp outlets. 20 amp outlets are preferred, and obviously are no problem on a 15 amp circuit. And possibly a little bit of 14 gauge wire to daisy chain to one other outlet.



This is wrong.

You CAN have a 15a duplex receptacle on a 20a circuit(as long as it is not the only receptacle on the circuit). Alternatively, you CAN NOT have a 20a outlet on a 15a circuit. Also, for a 20a circuit you should use 12 gauge wire.

That is all.


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## wyteboi (Feb 20, 2010)

OGKush00 said:


> Well the attic is right above my laundry room and bathroom, so i would assume it is on the same circuit as one of those, probably the laundry. As far as the light goes, I am wanting to completely remove the light and change that into the socket I would use for the HPS/fans.
> 
> As far as the size of the wire I would have to go back up, but before I do.. What should I be looking for?


Look at the side of the wire, it says the guage all the way down it. if its 14 wire then its good for upto 15 amps. you dont wanna use anymore then 75% of the total ......so you would not want to run no more then 11 or 12 amps/ or 1500 watts, topps.
and thats only if the circuit is by itself (its not) 
and as long as your wire and breaker sizes match then who gives a fuck what kind of outlet..... a 15 is fine and so is a 20. that might not be code but its common sense.
the easy way would be to wire up your outlet to a couple small pieces of wire........then climb up and take the light down and use a plate that will hold an outlet or u could take down the whole box and replace with a outlet box (dont matter) and just take the wires from the light off and replace with the wires from the outlet u hooked up.

sorry i dont explain things worth a shit....

wb


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## DnaK (Feb 20, 2010)

buggin69 said:


> This is wrong.
> 
> You CAN have a 15a duplex receptacle on a 20a circuit(as long as it is not the only receptacle on the circuit). Alternatively, you CAN NOT have a 20a outlet on a 15a circuit. Also, for a 20a circuit you should use 12 gauge wire.
> 
> That is all.




No offense, but if you're so damn knowledgeable, explain to me why you can't put a 20 amp outlet on a 15amp circuit. I'm an electrician apprentice for 4 years now, and pretty damn sure i got that right.

If you put a 15 amp outlet on a 20 amp circuit, the breaker wont trip if you overpull the outlet causing a hazard. (yes im aware CODE allows you to put 15 amp outlets on a 20 amp circuit as long as there is a few, but why chance it?)

If you put a 20amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit the breaker trips before you hit the outlets limit. Aka, no problem.

Yes, he SHOULD use 12 guage on a 20amp, but we haven't determined ANYTHING about his setup. On top of that, i am not about to ask a person with no electrical backround to re-wire a circuit, 14 gauge wire is FINE for his setup under 800 watts.


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## one11 (Feb 20, 2010)

yes hello hello! Question. Im going to be running a 600w hps along with a fan or two. This shed is located approx. 250 ft away from the power outlet (120v 30amp) and it will be traveling thru 10/2 wiring. I've calculated the cost if my ballast is running 95% efficient at 34 bucks a month. But i havent taken into consideration if i will be losing power/efficency/money due to the distance it must travel. Will I? And also, i dont understand how my ballast would not be running at 100%. Thank you ahead of time.


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## buggin69 (Feb 20, 2010)

DnaK said:


> No offense, but if you're so damn knowledgeable, explain to me why you can't put a 20 amp outlet on a 15amp circuit. I'm an electrician apprentice for 4 years now, and pretty damn sure i got that right.
> 
> If you put a 20amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit the breaker trips before you hit the outlets limit. Aka, no problem.


Just common knowledge bro... don't know who you're doing electric for.. but I'm feel for them

It's in the NEC and if you want an explanation it's so somebody doesn't come down the line in the future and say.. well this must me a 20A circuit... so I can load up 16 amps right here... and then pop... and maybe the breaker isn't EXACTLY 15 amps... maybe it is 16 (they aren't PERFECT you know)... and maybe the wire heats up and starts a fire...


you got it backwards.. you said no to 15a outlet on 20a circuit and yes to 20a outlet on 15 a circuit

you can't have a 20a receptacle unless the wire and breaker are both rated for 20a... 12gauge 20a breaker



EDIT: for functional purposes it will most likely be fine.. and in theory you're right.. any overload will cause the breaker to trip... and I'm sure you can find an electrician buddy to agree with you. that's all well and good... but i can read. I know the code. 

dude if you bought a 20a outlet already throw the breaker and figure out what's on the circuit and it's it's not too much install the thing.. write 15a on the box... and be done


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## IAm5toned (Feb 20, 2010)

i can show you in the codebook where it says you can run 30 amps on #14.
you want an article number?


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## wyteboi (Feb 20, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> i can show you in the codebook where it says you can run 30 amps on #14.
> you want an article number?


....................


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## buggin69 (Feb 20, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> i can show you in the codebook where it says you can run 30 amps on #14.
> you want an article number?



for some obscure reason.. not for anythign normal


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## IAm5toned (Feb 20, 2010)

how about a branch circuit for an air conditoner. thats pretty normal.
so aernt motors, but thats a whole nother ball game.
and a list of definite purpose equipment that is too long and pointless to list here.
ampacities are affected by an almost infinite range of variables, insulation type, ambient temp, duty cycle, frequency, voltage drop, skinning factors, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc

the beauty and curse of the NEC is that is intended to be an established set of guidelines _interpreted_ by a _competent person_ to provide the minimum safety requirements to prevent personal injury and/or property loss.

Everyone skips article 90. you should give it a read. but in case you dont have access to a codebook, here's an outline typed up by an associate of mine:


> NEC Article 90 draws boundaries around the National Electrical Code&#8212;boundaries many people fail to understand. For example, Article 90 has long made it clear the NEC is not intended as design specification or instruction manual. The National Electrical Code has one purpose only.
> NEC 90.1 has four subdivisions:
> (A) says the purpose of the NEC is the practical safeguarding of people and property "from hazards arising from the use of electricity."
> (B) distinguishes from the adequacy concept (provisions necessary for safety) and other concepts. The Code is a minimum standard. Further effort may be required for an installation to be efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion. This is a fundamental concept upon which many Code disagreements arise. The Code is not a target you&#8217;d like to hit. It is the minimum you can do.
> ...


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## DnaK (Feb 20, 2010)

codes vary as well between different parts of the country and by local regulations.


anyways, lets stop discussing stupid shit like that and help these people find reasonable solutions for the inept grower with no electrical experience.

no bad blood  Everyones right


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## OGKush00 (Feb 20, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> Look at the side of the wire, it says the guage all the way down it. if its 14 wire then its good for upto 15 amps. you dont wanna use anymore then 75% of the total ......so you would not want to run no more then 11 or 12 amps/ or 1500 watts, topps.
> and thats only if the circuit is by itself (its not)
> and as long as your wire and breaker sizes match then who gives a fuck what kind of outlet..... a 15 is fine and so is a 20. that might not be code but its common sense.
> the easy way would be to wire up your outlet to a couple small pieces of wire........then climb up and take the light down and use a plate that will hold an outlet or u could take down the whole box and replace with a outlet box (dont matter) and just take the wires from the light off and replace with the wires from the outlet u hooked up.
> ...


the three wires going into the pull string light are marked 14/2 W/G. Guessing that is what I need? So this will be able to run my 400 watt hps and a fun np?


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## buggin69 (Feb 20, 2010)

OGKush00 said:


> the three wires going into the pull string light are marked 14/2 W/G. Guessing that is what I need? So this will be able to run my 400 watt hps and a fun np?



the wire should be fine... you really should try to figure out what else is on that circuit though... 
you never know what people will do... just because it's over the bathroom and laundry room doesn't mean it isn't daisy chained all over the place
you're probably fine but you could be on the same circuit at the washing machine and two other rooms... or more

just turn stuff on and flip that breaker... see what goes off


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## DnaK (Feb 20, 2010)

You can always test it with a hair dryer. It will trip within a minute if something else of value is running on it.


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## buggin69 (Feb 20, 2010)

DnaK said:


> You can always test it with a hair dryer. It will trip within a minute if something else of value is running on it.



or a nice 10 or 12 amp vacuum cleaner


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## wyteboi (Feb 21, 2010)

buggin69 said:


> the wire should be fine... you really should try to figure out what else is on that circuit though...
> you never know what people will do... just because it's over the bathroom and laundry room doesn't mean it isn't daisy chained all over the place
> you're probably fine but you could be on the same circuit at the washing machine and two other rooms... or more
> 
> just turn stuff on and flip that breaker... see what goes off


Yes i agree the 14 wire is fine BUT you really need to find out what else is on that circuit. when you run your 400 , you dont wanna plug in the vacuum and pop the breaker, so it really helps to know what is where.

wb


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## sixstring2112 (Feb 21, 2010)

i have an old hps light 400 watt the was given to me. it is the kind that has the ballast, bulb, big shroud all together and hangs from a huge hook. i took the socket out and took the hanger and shroud off to make it smaller. i'm going to build my own reflector out of sheet metal and i want to keep the ballast housing away from my grow. when i took out the socket i had to re route the wires and i used 14 2 for that. when i took the ballast housing apart it had this oldschool looking thick brown paper seperating the transforer from the ignitor. all the wiring ran through a large hole in the center of the paper. it pretty much crumbled apart when i first touched it. is there anything to worry about , i assume this paper is so the ends of wires and terminals do not touch each other. i have used electrical tape to cover things up as best i can but now i am thinking it might get too hot and melt the tape? is there anything else i might have or could buy to replace this paper or no big deal. there is about a 3/4" gap between the two sides when they are screwed together.


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## stelthy (Feb 21, 2010)

Hi STELTHY here, I have a question (urgent), I am putting a thermostat into my growroom because my nights temps are falling as low as 12oC, so I have gone and bought a small fan heater and modified it to work well in the sized room I have, I plan to connect this fan heater to a thermostat, and a cpu intake fan connected to my chimney, drawing in fresh cold air, and also have this plugged into the thermostat, my problem is..... :- The bloody heater has an auto shut off if it gets to hot, I want to bypass this function, because the fan will only need to run for a tops of 5 mins when the thermostat informs it to! PLEASE HELP ME BYPASS THIS ASAP, my night temps are so low due to the cold nights were having and its slowing things down big time! I ll post a couple of pics on this topic but really need to get it sorted yesterday if you know what I mean - STELTHY - cheers!


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## stelthy (Feb 21, 2010)




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## stelthy (Feb 21, 2010)




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## stelthy (Feb 21, 2010)




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## stelthy (Feb 21, 2010)




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## stelthy (Feb 21, 2010)




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## buggin69 (Feb 21, 2010)

i personally wouldn't bypass that feature... if it's only running for a few minutes then that feature shouldn't bother what you are doing... and if it's getting too hot do you really WANT it to keep running?

doesn't seem safe


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## one11 (Feb 22, 2010)

Hey folks. Im amidst setting up my growroom, and I've run into an issue. Im clueless when it comes to electricity so here it is. I bought a trailer plug for a 30amp 120v outlet. The trailer plug directions said it can hold 12/3 or 10/3 wire. So I bought 12/3. Thing is the trailer plug holds three wires. One black, one white, and one green. As I was stripping the 12/3 wire, I saw it had 4 wires. One black, one white, one red, and one without a jacket, just a plain copper wire. What do I do with these? Did I buy the wrong thing? The package of the wiring says it comes with "grounding" which I dont know what that means. Any and All help is appreciated.


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## buggin69 (Feb 22, 2010)

one11 said:


> Hey folks. Im amidst setting up my growroom, and I've run into an issue. Im clueless when it comes to electricity so here it is. I bought a trailer plug for a 30amp 120v outlet. The trailer plug directions said it can hold 12/3 or 10/3 wire. So I bought 12/3. Thing is the trailer plug holds three wires. One black, one white, and one green. As I was stripping the 12/3 wire, I saw it had 4 wires. One black, one white, one red, and one without a jacket, just a plain copper wire. What do I do with these? Did I buy the wrong thing? The package of the wiring says it comes with "grounding" which I dont know what that means. Any and All help is appreciated.


I assume they intended for you to use 12/3 or 10/3 extension cord type cable. You probably got the 12/3 romex simpull or something like that... solid copper cable... it will work i guess but will be pretty rigid and might work loose if you're going to be moving it around a lot

i bet if you didn't strip it back too far they'll take it back or exchange it for you... unless it was a custom cut piece or something... 

like i said.. basing this on guesses and assumptions ...


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## one11 (Feb 22, 2010)

buggin69 said:


> I assume they intended for you to use 12/3 or 10/3 extension cord type cable. You probably got the 12/3 romex simpull or something like that... solid copper cable... it will work i guess but will be pretty rigid and might work loose if you're going to be moving it around a lot
> 
> i bet if you didn't strip it back too far they'll take it back or exchange it for you... unless it was a custom cut piece or something...
> 
> like i said.. basing this on guesses and assumptions ...


Yeah its pretty much like Romex. I need it to be weather resistant so i got UF. And its meant to be pretty much permanent. I just dont know what to do with the wires...I much rather exchange the trailer plug for something that fits my wire as it was not nearly as expensive as the wire.


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## buggin69 (Feb 22, 2010)

one11 said:


> Yeah its pretty much like Romex. I need it to be weather resistant so i got UF. And its meant to be pretty much permanent. I just dont know what to do with the wires...I much rather exchange the trailer plug for something that fits my wire as it was not nearly as expensive as the wire.


you can get a 4 prong dryer plug and outlet to match if you want to go that route... but if you're ok with having an extra wire it's not a big deal... that's for a 4 prong 240 or like a 3 or 4 way light switch setup... it's actually 12/3 w/ground... but otherwise you should be fine to use it (as long as it attaches securely to the plug)


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## myxedup (Feb 23, 2010)

I actually had a similar question to this. I just purchased a CAP mlc-4xt like this one, 

http://www.horticulturesource.com/c-a-p-custom-automated-products-cap-mlc-4xt-master-lighting-controller-4-lights-w-timer-p6031/?osCsid=99a66d25682634c3cd211b0174785039

and I have to feed it from a 30 amp double pole. I purchased 10/3 romex and what I was wondering, was why anything 240 volt runs a neutral wire? It's my understanding that we only use neutral wires because we use alternating current and any imbalance runs through the neutral and to the ground and there should never be any imbalance with a 240 as it pulls from both trees.

Am i incorrect in that or why is there a need for a ground and neutral in 240's?

Thanks in advance


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## buggin69 (Feb 23, 2010)

myxedup said:


> I actually had a similar question to this. I just purchased a CAP mlc-4xt like this one,
> 
> http://www.horticulturesource.com/c-a-p-custom-automated-products-cap-mlc-4xt-master-lighting-controller-4-lights-w-timer-p6031/?osCsid=99a66d25682634c3cd211b0174785039
> 
> ...



okay... standard 240 has two hots and a neutral... the neutral is used as a safe path to ground in case of a short or fault...

now some newer 240 is actually 240/120 like dryers for instance

the new ones (and old one in mobile homes... they got them first) have both hots for 240 but then it will branch off one and use the hot and neutral as 120 to run the control board
so the motor/heater uses 240, but the rest of the dryer uses 120. 

This mean both hots are in use and neutral is in use... therefore to have free a safe path to ground you have to have the extra ground wire

IOW... it's all for safety reasons


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## renyman (Feb 23, 2010)

Ok, i bought one of those electricity usage meters that tell you how many watts and amps you are using. So i plug my cfl power strip in and it gets the watts right (521) , but the amp reading says 7.5!! How can that be? I'm assuming my house plug is just a regular 120v so shouldnt it be 4.34 amps? The funny thing is my ballast read right which was 420w and 3.2 amps. Just what the label said. 15amps = 1800 no? Im really confused.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 23, 2010)

does it say on it anywhere, the words 'True RMS" ?
because if it doesnt its not accurate.


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## renyman (Feb 23, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> does it say on it anywhere, the words 'True RMS" ?
> because if it doesnt its not accurate.



well, it got my ballast right and my space heater. Plus my tv, dvr and microwave. It said that each of those devices pulled exactly what their labels say they pull. The only time the readings started getting wacky i.e not following the 15a = 1800w rule was when i tested my cfls. Actually though i have one brand of bulb that reads on its side: 42w/.53 amps which is what the meter said. 

im using a 15a circuit and i guess im going to have to go by the amp reading and not surpass 75%/1125 amps. 2- 42w bulbs read 1.75 amps, but my 400w ballast only read 3.2. Go figure. Chalk another one up for the hids i guess.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 23, 2010)

not really.
you get billed for wattage, not amperage.
a quick and simple way to compare efficiency between 2 different fixtures, is to divide the lumen output by the lamp wattage.
the higher the number the more efficient.


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## theclaws (Feb 23, 2010)

So I'm going to make this as simple as possible. I haven't had time to read all the replies in this thread, so I apologize if my question's been answered already.

Alright, I have a grow box that's 2'Wx4'Lx5.5'H. I would like to take this fixture and wire it to plug into a standard wall outlet. Is it as simple as getting a standard connector to go straight onto the wire or do I have to do something else? I would also like to run a dozen of these through six of these, one in each of the bar's sockets. Will this be fine wattage-wise, or would that many bulbs draw too much power through the fixture?


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## ghettochild (Feb 24, 2010)

anyone got any info on wiring up a master light controller (washer outlet plug ) for a 3000 watt light set up 120volt...

just like those 300 dollar timers at the hydro store... I'd like a tutorial on how to make one myself.

thanks yall


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## Judgeroy (Feb 24, 2010)

theclaws said:


> So I'm going to make this as simple as possible. I haven't had time to read all the replies in this thread, so I apologize if my question's been answered already.
> 
> Alright, I have a grow box that's 2'Wx4'Lx5.5'H. I would like to take this fixture and wire it to plug into a standard wall outlet. Is it as simple as getting a standard connector to go straight onto the wire or do I have to do something else? I would also like to run a dozen of these through six of these, one in each of the bar's sockets. Will this be fine wattage-wise, or would that many bulbs draw too much power through the fixture?


It's a simple math problem!! Add up all your watts, divide by your voltage and that gives you your amps. Most all wall plugs are rated at 15A but a lot are wired with 12ga and can carry 20A, Thus, check your breaker! if it's a 15 it should have 14ga wire if 20 it should be 12ga wire. All 20A breakers in your main box should have 12ga wire to pass code. If you are not overloaded just add a plug to the wires off the fixture.


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## Judgeroy (Feb 24, 2010)

myxedup said:


> I actually had a similar question to this. I just purchased a CAP mlc-4xt like this one,
> 
> http://www.horticulturesource.com/c-a-p-custom-automated-products-cap-mlc-4xt-master-lighting-controller-4-lights-w-timer-p6031/?osCsid=99a66d25682634c3cd211b0174785039
> 
> ...


First I guess is that everybody has a different idea when it comes to an electrical setup for their OP. If that's the only thing you need juice for and you want to run the lights on 220v then you run two power and a ground back to your main box and you are set. The best and easier way in my opinion is to build a sub-panel (breaker box) from your main panel. This is where it gets a different look as far as neutral and ground goes. In that sub=panel the neutral and ground have to be seperated!!!! The beauty is you have plenty of power to distribute where you want and can size the panel for the circuts needed. Kind of hard to explain in writing but you need to start at the op and work it back to the power requirements. Example 3-1000w= [email protected] 10a each. Fans and auxillary plugs. pumps, and what have you. It can be a real pain. Myself, I'm running an aero type op and I figured 50A total, that's from cloner,veg and flower. Since I didn't have a 50A range outlet(4-wire), I installed a 50A plug from my main breaker box near my op. Then I used a main lug breaker box and put a 50A range plug feeding 220v to the lugs, wht to neutral,(which cannot be bonded to ground) and in my case I had to install a ground bar to the box. Like I said the ground and neutral have to be seperated in order to use any 110voltage. If you are using only 220v a three wire setup would work but I see no point, fans and pumps do not run on 220v. Wow, this is getting out of hand. Anyway, That's a lot of money just for a light timer with outlets. Check out these pics of my setup. It works Great and power a plenty.
So in the first pic is my main sub-panel from my house main breaker box. Being fed thru a 50A range plug(4wire) to the main lugs,red and black, White to neutral(which has to be seperated from ground, unbonded) and ground to panel. 
The three single gang outlets have constant power thru one breaker, which I power my timers. When the timer says go. power is applied to a contactor, or relay solinoid rated at the amp draw thru the cord plugged into the timer. The contactor on the left when triggered relays power from the breakers to the plugs. no need for high amp timer. each duplex has 20A available. that's 4-1000w if needed for lights. 
The contactor on the right is run by timer cord on the right, this allows seperate timing for pumps other then with the light schedule, the contactor then relays power from another breaker down to the pump outlets. This config reduces current draw on pump timer and increases amps available for pumps,
You will see a big 30A outlet on the side of panel, that feeds pic #2 panel which works basically the same except there is no contactor,high amp switch, for the lights as this is clone and veg which doesn't need high draw lights, but protects pump timers from high amps.
I think I have everything covered power wise and have not added all the parts up but thinking @ 250 for everything in pics. 

I think someone starting out should think their setup through. Maybe you have a 30A dryer plug available! you may have to run another wire if you want some 110voltage. 
I'm sure I confused some people and enlightened others. I'm not a licensed electrician but know many and always do my own.. Make sure you don't work with live power!!!! Shut the breaker off


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 24, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> does it say on it anywhere, the words 'True RMS" ?
> because if it doesnt its not accurate.


can't just multiply by .707? works for volts. (i might have the .707 wrong been 20 years)


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## myxedup (Feb 24, 2010)

Judgeroy said:


> First I guess is that everybody has a different idea when it comes to an electrical setup for their OP. If that's the only thing you need juice for and you want to run the lights on 220v then you run two power and a ground back to your main box and you are set. The best and easier way in my opinion is to build a sub-panel (breaker box) from your main panel. This is where it gets a different look as far as neutral and ground goes. In that sub=panel the neutral and ground have to be seperated!!!! The beauty is you have plenty of power to distribute where you want and can size the panel for the circuts needed. Kind of hard to explain in writing but you need to start at the op and work it back to the power requirements. Example 3-1000w= [email protected] 10a each. Fans and auxillary plugs. pumps, and what have you. It can be a real pain. Myself, I'm running an aero type op and I figured 50A total, that's from cloner,veg and flower. Since I didn't have a 50A range outlet(4-wire), I installed a 50A plug from my main breaker box near my op. Then I used a main lug breaker box and put a 50A range plug feeding 220v to the lugs, wht to neutral,(which cannot be bonded to ground) and in my case I had to install a ground bar to the box. Like I said the ground and neutral have to be seperated in order to use any 110voltage. If you are using only 220v a three wire setup would work but I see no point, fans and pumps do not run on 220v. Wow, this is getting out of hand. Anyway, That's a lot of money just for a light timer with outlets. Check out these pics of my setup. It works Great and power a plenty.
> So in the first pic is my main sub-panel from my house main breaker box. Being fed thru a 50A range plug(4wire) to the main lugs,red and black, White to neutral(which has to be seperated from ground, unbonded) and ground to panel.
> The three single gang outlets have constant power thru one breaker, which I power my timers. When the timer says go. power is applied to a contactor, or relay solinoid rated at the amp draw thru the cord plugged into the timer. The contactor on the left when triggered relays power from the breakers to the plugs. no need for high amp timer. each duplex has 20A available. that's 4-1000w if needed for lights.
> The contactor on the right is run by timer cord on the right, this allows seperate timing for pumps other then with the light schedule, the contactor then relays power from another breaker down to the pump outlets. This config reduces current draw on pump timer and increases amps available for pumps,
> ...


Actually, I did go ahead and install a sub-panel for my OP. My main panel was on tandems everywhere and had absolutely no room for expansion, so I made my subpanel a 60 amp panel that I can switch out to up to 100 amp in the future should there be a need.

I used 2/2/2/4 wiring specifically for that reason. I have 2 20 amp quadplexes running at 120 in the room and another 2 20 amp dualplexes. I got the MLC as I got a killer deal on it and I don't have to bother with purchasing other timers and such.

I'm actually finishing the build part of this room on Thursday (minus anything still in shipping), and I've been taking a lot of pictures. I just can't post them yet as I'm overbudget on my room and need a new card reader or some usb connection.

Absolutely loved the explanation on the sub panel, and no, i didn't bond my neutral bar 

Thanks again and + rep


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## MonstroniuM (Feb 24, 2010)

Check it out, got a 5x5x8 closet with no electrical outlet in the closet itself. Closest one is two feet from the door so I ran an extension cord under the door running my sorry cfl's. Now that its constructed and time to throw up the 400w, exhaust fan, and the other goods, I don't know if its recommended to run it off an extension cord from a room that already has other things plugged in. So with that said I ask your advice on how to equip my new space with out it being rigged on some cords under a door, etc. 

Thanks in advance, and I'll wait patiently for your input!

-Monstro


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## ghettochild (Feb 25, 2010)

someone please help. I need to build a 50 amp box for my set up i would like it to be on 220v with the option to plug in 120 appliances and 220v appliances. this run will be roughly under 4k so please help!!!


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## debbie1950 (Feb 25, 2010)

I had a surge protector on my 250MH and it quit after 2 weeks of 18hours on 6 off. I then put up the 600hps to continue and the bulb blew after 2 days. The ballasts still work, but the light bulbs only flicker a little blue spark. I don't have a hot room. I don't have other stuff plugged into the outlet -I'm concerned that it's maybe not just bad bulbs. I'm totally upset right now.


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## whiteboin00b (Feb 25, 2010)

I have a question. I am about to start a rubbermaid grow box, with exhaust fans cfls etc etc. I am not sure on how to wire these. I am going to use ab 5-6 42w cfls through both stages. How would I go about wiring these lights to one fixture so I could hang it from a chain in my box and lower/raise it as needed? also how would I go about wiring a CPU 120mm fan in the case...I saw on another post i would have to splice an old 12v charger and wire them together. I haven't done this before and am not too sure on how its done, could you please explain in further detial? Thanks man, this is a huge help to the community!


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## myxedup (Feb 25, 2010)

ghettochild said:


> someone please help. I need to build a 50 amp box for my set up i would like it to be on 220v with the option to plug in 120 appliances and 220v appliances. this run will be roughly under 4k so please help!!!


Your probably going to need to build a sub panel, it all just depends upon how much room you have left in your main electrical panel and how far from the main panel your grow area will be.

I just finished building my own subpanel and it's actually pretty simple.

Here's what you'll need:

50 amp double pole breaker for your main panel.
A new panel box to be used as the sub panel.
6/3 romex wire is rated to carry the 50 amps so you'll need it long enough to reach the subpanel. Do NOT buy it too short, I'm not all too familiar with the codes but I believe you shouldn't splice 6# wire.
Possibly a grounding bar, again depends on where you need your op in relation to your main service.
You'll also need to figure out how many circuits you need from the sub panel and what amperage for them and purchase the appropriate breakers.


Now to the build, you want to work backwards from your subpanel to the main panel.
Run the 6/3 romex wire from the main panel to the sub panel.
You'll start by attaching the ground to the ground bar in the new panel and then the neutral to the neutral bar.
With the wires, Red & Black are hot wires, White is neutral and Green or bare is ground.
You can then attach the Red and Black wires to their busses on the sub panel.
When connecting everything to the main panel, you need to be aware of what is hot and don't electrocute your @$$. If you are unsure, call an electrician.
When connecting to the main panel, always do ground wire first, then the neutral.
For the two hot wires, you will attach those to the 50 amp double pole and pop it into the box, doublechecking that it is in the off position when doing so.

Double check all connections and also make sure that you did NOT attach the bonding screw that comes in most panels to the neutral bus. Sub panels do not get bonded in that way.

From there, all you have to do is flip the 50 amp double pole to on to energize your box. 

Again, when you make the rest of your circuits, turn off the breaker that feeds your subpanel so that you don't risk shock.

If any of the certified electritions would please just double check this guide, I believe that everything is correct though.

Good luck and be safe.


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## Mustafa (Feb 25, 2010)

Hey I was wondering if anyone can help me. I am seeking advice on how to bypass a European electric meter. All i can tell you is that two wires come out of the ground each running into the meter, into the rotating reel. These two wires however seem to lead into the trip switch box inside the building. I am looking to bypass the meter at this location. any help on how to go about doing this ?


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## buggin69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Mustafa said:


> Hey I was wondering if anyone can help me. I am seeking advice on how to bypass a European electric meter. All i can tell you is that two wires come out of the ground each running into the meter, into the rotating reel. These two wires however seem to lead into the trip switch box inside the building. I am looking to bypass the meter at this location. any help on how to go about doing this ?


only advice i have is don't do it


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## myxedup (Feb 25, 2010)

Mustafa said:


> Hey I was wondering if anyone can help me. I am seeking advice on how to bypass a European electric meter. All i can tell you is that two wires come out of the ground each running into the meter, into the rotating reel. These two wires however seem to lead into the trip switch box inside the building. I am looking to bypass the meter at this location. any help on how to go about doing this ?


I'm with Buggin, it sounds like a very terrible idea. Pay your bills or get a generator. Don't rip off people or Karma's going to send you to prison for a long ass time.


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## KitchenKhemist (Feb 25, 2010)

I've looked and looked, but can't find a straight answer anywhere, so I found this thread...hopefully you can help.

I'm wanting to hook an inline fan up to a single 2-gang outlet from a split-circuit consisting of two switches. By that, I mean I wish to start with an energized 6-outlet surge protector, from there, I wish to run one wire (14-2) to a timer, from the timer, I go to the top terminals of a two-gang outlet. Now, starting back at surge protector...I run another wire (from a different outlet on the same surge protector) to a line-voltage thermostat. From there, I run to the bottom set of terminals on the aforementioned 2-gang outlet. I do not wish to break off the tabs connecting the two sets of terminals as I can only plug my fan into one receptacle.

Will this work? The only concern I have is when the two switches (timer and stat) are both closed at the same time. Will it trip a breaker? Catch the guy's house on fire? Ruin the fan?

Maybe I'm just thinking too hard, but please understand my concern.

Thanks in advance!


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## KitchenKhemist (Feb 25, 2010)

Wow, still no takers huh? Well I've been thinkin it over and if the "path of least resistance" rule is true, it oughta work. I pictured it as puttin a jumper from one point to another on the same wire for each the "hot" and "neutral" respectively. Since the power's comin from the same source, I think it'll just "pick" the easiest way to the fan.

I suck at electrical thinking problems, but that's my best.

Anyone?


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## IAm5toned (Feb 26, 2010)

it wont kick the breaker...

and thats not 2 circuits. its 2 branches off of one circuit.

and ps, if you dont break the tab, then the plug connected to the timer will never shut off..........


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## Uvalax (Feb 26, 2010)

I hope no ones asked this yet, but how do you hookup 4 pin plug in style fluorescent lamps? How would you hook it up to a light timer?


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## IAm5toned (Feb 26, 2010)

you need a ballast first, and a socket for the lamp... then you run the ballast off of the timer.


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## Uvalax (Feb 26, 2010)

word man thanks, so the ballast plugs into a wall socket


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 26, 2010)

Uvalax said:


> word man thanks, so the ballast plugs into a wall socket



Why not just buy a floro lamp? a DIY will cost more.


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## isthislegal (Feb 26, 2010)

MonstroniuM said:


> Check it out, got a 5x5x8 closet with no electrical outlet in the closet itself. Closest one is two feet from the door so I ran an extension cord under the door running my sorry cfl's. Now that its constructed and time to throw up the 400w, exhaust fan, and the other goods, I don't know if its recommended to run it off an extension cord from a room that already has other things plugged in. So with that said I ask your advice on how to equip my new space with out it being rigged on some cords under a door, etc.
> 
> Thanks in advance, and I'll wait patiently for your input!
> 
> -Monstro



I am having the same issue.........how do we get power to the closet?? I am running 400w as well, but cant get started because I am unsure exactly what to do. Thanks in advance.


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## buggin69 (Feb 26, 2010)

isthislegal said:


> I am having the same issue.........how do we get power to the closet?? I am running 400w as well, but cant get started because I am unsure exactly what to do. Thanks in advance.



The short answer is you run a wire from your breaker box to the closet, install a receptacle, and you're done.

If you're willing to figure out how your house is wired you might be able to tie into a lightly used circuit and not have to run wire so far or install a dedicated line... but that's the best way to go anyway.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 26, 2010)

the mexicengineer way to get power to a closet....

NEVER put more than 500w MAX in a closet, unless your a licensed electrician with a good understanding of heat shielding, and venting requirements...
but for the ones wondering how to fit a 400w and a fan or 2
use no longer than a 25' #14awg heavy duty cord, and a (1000w minimum) surge protector for the end of it.
you can find this stuff easy @ any big box hardware store like home depot.
but remember, there is a 99% chance that the outlet your plugging into is running off of a circuit that is feeding several more outlets and/or lights....
in other words, do your best to figure out what else is plugged into the circuit your outlet is on, and move it somewhere else. most outlet circuits (and when i say outlet circuits, i mean entire circuits with multiple plugs, not the individual outlets themselves!) in houses will be good for no more than 1440 watts and often the same circuit that the plug is on will also be running lights in the same room; so dont be surprised or come running back here for help when your breaker trips.........

the safest way is to run a dedicated circuit for the grow op, but i realize that is not an option for everyone here, especially those renting or with other 'stealth' concerns...

and remember if you have doubts, _consult a pro in person_


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## buggin69 (Feb 26, 2010)

don't even worry about stealth and calling an electrician... he doesn't care why you want an outlet put in... tell him to do it and walk away... he'll be glad to accept your money

IF he asks.. tell him your wife/gf/mom/boyfriend/you wants a outlet in the closet for some kind of charger and you want it on a separate breaker because you keep tripping one vacuuming back there so you need to fix that.. two birds one stone

or make up some other BS... really don't matter


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## isthislegal (Feb 26, 2010)

Thanks all for the fast responses...talk about help!!!!! Anywho...the closet is 3 x 3 x 7, I am using the pulsar mini combo 400w thingy, lol. I actually went to school for computers and electronics. I have repaired small appliances and have even put sockets in (basically just changed an old socket) even got shocked the first time i tried to change a socket (because I was to lazy to turn the power off). nice little tingle, lol. I have never done anything as serious as running a dedicated line or installing a new box. I want the grow to have its own panel, so if anything goes wrong with the electricity of the grow, it wont affect others in the house. I have been searching here on RIU and other sites, but cant seem to find a defenitive how to for closets....maybe i am not putting in the right search terms.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 27, 2010)

hey isthislegal-

if you have access to a 240v dryer outlet, they make some fancy lighting controllers that just plug right into the outlet for the dryer, no mess no fuss no tools.some even come with a 25' cord...
http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=55781

or if your a DIY kinda guy you can go to HD, buy a 60amp loadcenter, some #10 romex, and a nema rated male cord end, a breaker or 2, a timer relay, and make it yourself...
since you already now the basics of power, than you know that you could never actually pull 60 amps out of a receptacle, but since your concerned about safety the loadcenter gives you the ability to install GFCI and/or arc fault breakers on all your devices, and have overcurrent protection and groundfault protection right there inside the grow op. the bonus to this is that if you used all 4 slots in the 60 amp panel, then if you had a problem with one device and it kicks a breaker, it wont shut off the other devices on the breakers!
just remember if you do build something like i described, your will always be limited to the wattage of the outlet it is plugged into. a standard 120v receptacle is good for 1440w... and most of those standard receptacles will be on 15amp breakers feeding other receptacles in the same room as well as the lights.


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## isthislegal (Feb 27, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> hey isthislegal-
> 
> if you have access to a 240v dryer outlet, they make some fancy lighting controllers that just plug right into the outlet for the dryer, no mess no fuss no tools.some even come with a 25' cord...
> http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=55781
> ...


IAm5toned thanks a million brotha!!! That HID controller really makes my job simple. I'm sure I could build one, but I feel more comfortable with the professionally built one. My cousin is a licensed electrician...but I read somewhere "NEVER TRUST ANYONE WITH A SECRET THAT YOU CANT KEEP" so I will keep it to myself. I really really appreciate everyones help. Just took a load off of my shoulders. kiss-ass


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## isthislegal (Feb 27, 2010)

Ok, so change of plans, It just dawned on me that we have a sauna tub, whirlpool tub or whatever it is that you call it. You push a button the back of the tub and bubbles come out. We never use the thing and its all by itself. So I got lucky and it wont cost me much at all to get electricity in my closet. I just remembered that youtube has videos of EVERYTHING, so for any DIY'ers like me who have the ability but need visual aids... here ya go http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=home+electrical+wiring&search_type=&aq=f

Thank you all again, I'm a very happy man...I will be growing before I know it!!!


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## KitchenKhemist (Feb 27, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> it wont kick the breaker...
> 
> and thats not 2 circuits. its 2 branches off of one circuit.
> 
> and ps, if you dont break the tab, then the plug connected to the timer will never shut off..........


Didn't say it was 2-circuits. And as for this tab business, why wouldn't it shut off? I understand there could be backfeed when the stat closes, but that doesn't concern me. I thought the tab just connected the top and bottom outlets. Breaking the tab makes the outlets independent of one another. I need them tied together so that if either switch is closed (timer or stat), both outlets on the receptacle will be hot.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 27, 2010)

oh, then i misunderstood your original post. it will work, just make sure the timer and stat are fed from the same source


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## Kccool2 (Feb 27, 2010)

Ok, I have just started to grow weed. I am pretty clued up about it all thanks to you guys here on this forums, but the lights are my biggest issue. I have my cupboard, which is quite large, and I will be getting the rest of the equipment soon, v.v.soon, but I just need to know how I would hang and power two flourescent tubes hanging from the ceiling of the cupboard. 

I can't seem to find an adapter of any kind that would be a plug on one end and an adapter for the flourescent tube on the other end, as that would be perfect lol. So I'm hoping you guys can help me on this matter. And if someone has already asked this and you are annoyed at having to answer a similar Q, I'm really sorry!! 

Thanks guys, oh, and I suppose this is my first post too lol, so a big stoners welcome to you all!  4:20


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## IAm5toned (Feb 27, 2010)

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xr5/R-202022571/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


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## Kccool2 (Feb 27, 2010)

Awesome, thanks very much for the link! @D


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 27, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> but for the ones wondering how to fit a 400w and a fan or 2
> use no longer than a 25' #14awg heavy duty cord, and a (1000w minimum) surge protector for the end of it.


Why the surge protector? They are based on a MOV; and item that gives no warning when its bad. They last 6 months to a year typically, and as previously stated when they are worn out, there is no indication that they are no longer protecting anything.

(loved the mexicengineer thingy  )


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## IAm5toned (Feb 27, 2010)

i guess i should have said a contractor grade 15 amp surge protector  ole!


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## SeanIzen (Feb 27, 2010)

okay so i want to set up, 2 T5HO lights and I was wondering if this ballast would work or if i would work for 2 or do i have to buy two ballasts for two bulbs? I'm hoping I can just Y the cords to each light... thanks in advance!

here is the ballast
http://www.1000bulbs.com/F24T5-Fluorescent-Ballast/6175/

here is the bulb
http://www.1000bulbs.com/F24T5-High-Output-3000K/39558/


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## wolftickets500 (Feb 27, 2010)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


 
i have a room that is run all on my basement circuit breaker and everytime my girlfriend runs the dishwasher the breaker flips unless i have just my 400w hps going if i have my 600hps going it breaks the circuit. how do i wire a new breaker to just that room? i have some electrical exp. like wireing outlets and switches but the breaker box intimidates me thank you


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 28, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> i guess i should have said a contractor grade 15 amp surge protector  ole!


I put in a whole house surge suppressor, so hopefully things are taken care of at the panel. I think it was only $60 or so. Still meaning to get a line conditioner for the AV equipment; get that audio sounding as nice as possible. Makes gaming better


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 28, 2010)

According to the chart, that ballast will run 2 of those bulbs.

But let me ask you this, are you buying a standard floro fixture and replacing the ballast with this one? Or making a fixture from scratch?
From scratch seems like too much trouble if you ask me. Getting the sockets set right and sturdy may be a bear. I'd go for the modding a built fixture.



SeanIzen said:


> okay so i want to set up, 2 T5HO lights and I was wondering if this ballast would work or if i would work for 2 or do i have to buy two ballasts for two bulbs? I'm hoping I can just Y the cords to each light... thanks in advance!
> 
> here is the ballast
> http://www.1000bulbs.com/F24T5-Fluorescent-Ballast/6175/
> ...


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## justinW (Feb 28, 2010)

Well so glad to have run into you then...would you have any way of telling how much a 1000w digital ballast effect the electricity bill? would it be enough to make a real difference?


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## myxedup (Feb 28, 2010)

justinW said:


> Well so glad to have run into you then...would you have any way of telling how much a 1000w digital ballast effect the electricity bill? would it be enough to make a real difference?


It's not that difficult to figure out it's cost.
Basically, you take the amps drawn by the ballast, multiply that times the voltage (120/240) to get watts, divide that by 1000 to get kw, then multiply that by the number of hours used each day and how many days in the month. Take that answer and multiply it by the amount that your electric provider charges per kwh. It'll be on your bill.

For me, it is [(4.5x240)/1000]x12x30x.07= $27.21 per month for a 1000 watt bulb.

Hope that helps


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## IAm5toned (Feb 28, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> I put in a whole house surge suppressor, so hopefully things are taken care of at the panel. I think it was only $60 or so. Still meaning to get a line conditioner for the AV equipment; get that audio sounding as nice as possible. Makes gaming better


i use a denon reciever with HDMI for my gaming fixes, 7.3 audio (3x400w subs on a daisy chain)  i think it pisses off the neighbors, but im not sure, i cant hear them


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 28, 2010)

justinW said:


> Well so glad to have run into you then...would you have any way of telling how much a 1000w digital ballast effect the electricity bill? would it be enough to make a real difference?


The cost savings claims of digital is *only* on what the ballast uses, the bulb will still pull its full rated current/watts.

Example:
400W magnetic:
Bulb = 400W
Ballast = 50Watts
total = 450Watts

If a digital claims a 20% savings, thats 50Watts - 20% (10 watts)
So final actual usage is 440 watts.

If thats worth it is up to you and your KWHr rate.


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 28, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> i use a denon reciever with HDMI for my gaming fixes, 7.3 audio (3x400w subs on a daisy chain)  i think it pisses off the neighbors, but im not sure, i cant hear them


hehhehe. Been pondering for a while a transducer. But want new furniture first.


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## whatapothead (Feb 28, 2010)

ok bricktown.

got a situation here.... i grow in a shop. it has 4 20amp breakers and a 240v plug.

2 breakers go to the outlets. so i have 40amps of breaker to work with. i currently have 2 600w hps 1 400w hps and multiple other things plugged in. 

I'm about spent on safe amperage but want to setup a stadium with 3 600w hps and fans to cool them.

the other 2 breakers are split up like this. 1 for lights (which are 14 ft up so i don't use them) 1 for heater (i have hps heat for that) and 1 that is labeled welder and is the 240v 40amp breaker.

what is my easiest route? i'd be interested in making a panel off the 240v and getting 240v hps systems. and possibly getting cords to move my other two 600s to 240v as well as they have the capability.

let me know if you agree that going 240v would be my best bet.


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## mtncouple (Mar 3, 2010)

Hi, I have 4 1000w hps lights(on 110) and was wondering if I should put one generic 15 amp timer on each one or is their a better way to go. I just noticeed the photo of the intermatic timer what is the story with those?, Much Thanks for any info. Thanks, Frank


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## IAm5toned (Mar 3, 2010)

most generic timers wont work with an inductive load.... they fail after a few cycles. your lights are inductive.
you need a electromechanical time clock to switch that much wattage.
there are other ways but that is the most simple solution.


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## IAm5toned (Mar 3, 2010)

whatapothead said:


> ok bricktown.
> 
> got a situation here.... i grow in a shop. it has 4 20amp breakers and a 240v plug.
> 
> ...


as long as your not running hydro.... you dont find very many 240v pumps and cycle timers for cheap 

you really dont gain that much by running 240v unless your out of amperage; and that is where the true benefit of 240v comes in handy. heres how:
lets assume you have a 600w lamp thats hooked to a 120/240v ballast. the ballast draws an additional 60w. so you have 660w total for the one light. right now you have it running on 120v-
660w @ 120v = 5.5 amps
now, take the same ballast, switch it too 240v-
660w @ 240v = 2.75 amps

the higher the voltage, the lower the amperage. voltage and amperage are _inversely proportional.... _electricity is all about the math man.
_
by raising the voltage, it allows you to have more fixtures on the same circuit._

and thats about it. dont fall for people saying it will reduce your bill... you get billed for wattage by the power company, and wattage is _always_ constant when dealing with electricity.


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 3, 2010)

Hey IAm5toned, got a couple Qs

GFIs, any prob with using GFI breakers over outlets? (other then cost and the whole circuit goes out instead of just the outlet)

And a down stream GFI outlet (from a controlling GFI outlet) are they supposed to be in series or parallel? Series makes sense, but have heard a few times that parallel is the ticket.


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## IAm5toned (Mar 3, 2010)

yeah,ive had probs with gfi breakers where if in the panel where there are physically located is close to another breaker that is used constantly, and gets warm, starts to cause nuiscance tripping of the gfi breaker, which then wears it out, and becomes a repeat problem. arc faults are notorius for doing the same thing. i hate arc fault breakers.... i try to put all my gfci breakers on the bottom of the panel if possible for this reason, sometimes a 50amp breaker for a heat pump that is constantly running can heat up all the breakers on top of it, so having the gfci's down low helps prevent it.
any outlet should be fed in parallel with the incoming line... i _always _use pigtails, and never feed through a device, unless its a gfci specifically designed to do so, and your wanting to protect additional outlets downstream. its common to do this in resi settings with a gfci on the homerun for the bathroom circuit, and then you feed all bathroom receptacles in the house off the load side of the one gfi. some inspectors like to have a gfci breaker on the bathroom circuit and that's usually where the BS annoying multiple point nuisance tripping begins. often times, at homeowners request, i have returned to a house a month or 6 after the homeowner takes possession and removed either the GFCI ouitlet or swapped the gfci breaker for a standard ITE or whatever panel type....
its not nessecary to feed a gfi downstream off of another gfci, sometimes one can trip faster than the other, or one will trip when you reset the one that tripped the first time, it becomes a pain in the ass... tho some people just like to see the gfi outlet in the wall, inspectors especially. you can argue till your blue in the face with an inspector (not a wise choice, lol) but in the end what the man says goes, regardless if you have 10 gfci's all fed downstream from each other and fed originally from a gfci breaker.


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## whatapothead (Mar 3, 2010)

> as long as your not running hydro.... you dont find very many 240v pumps and cycle timers for cheap
> 
> you really dont gain that much by running 240v unless your out of amperage; and that is where the true benefit of 240v comes in handy. heres how:
> lets assume you have a 600w lamp thats hooked to a 120/240v ballast. the ballast draws an additional 60w. so you have 660w total for the one light. right now you have it running on 120v-
> ...


i understand all this... but my question is... is it easier to add breakers in the panel or to build a 240v panel that i can mount up in my grow room?

and if you read my post i am wanting to run the 6 600w hps systems on this 240v panel. 40amp 240v should handle this safely correct?


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## IAm5toned (Mar 3, 2010)

whatapothead said:


> i understand all this... but my question is... is it easier to add breakers in the panel or to build a 240v panel that i can mount up in my grow room?
> 
> and if you read my post i am wanting to run the 6 600w hps systems on this 240v panel. 40amp 240v should handle this safely correct?


40 amps @ 240 will give you 7680w all day and night long.
depending on your needs you could build a panel or feed it directly with a breaker. as for myself i would feed it with a breaker directly as this is the simplest and cheapest option.


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## Sub Zero (Mar 3, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> 40 amps @ 240 will give you 7680w all day and night long.
> depending on your needs you could build a panel or feed it directly with a breaker. as for myself i would feed it with a breaker directly as this is the simplest and cheapest option.



I just popped in to say Hi to everyone, and would like to offer a hardy and sincere thanks to *bricktown73* for starting this Thread. 
And a special thanks for *IAm5toned, *who has help me and many others. 
For all the contributors and helpers you are just great Human Beings...


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## kimextreme (Mar 4, 2010)

Question; I have 240V hooked to 1000W HPS, if I hook up the power to 277V line on the ballast instead of the 240V (to lower amps used), what effect will this have on the bulb, and ballast.

We checked our power and have 238 volts going to our board and to the ballast.


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## Kawn (Mar 4, 2010)

Is it possible to turn my smoke detector outlet into a typical elec oultet.. I will be replacing my elec smoke detector with a battery operated one if this whole process is possible.. thanks and aloha...


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## YouthIslandGrower (Mar 4, 2010)

Ey.. i got a Question... could atleast 1 plant grow under this light? http://www.amazon.com/Power-PAR38-LED-Vegging-2501BU/dp/B001NDRGNC/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&s=garden&qid=1267731625&sr=1-19


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## IAm5toned (Mar 4, 2010)

kimextreme said:


> Question; I have 240V hooked to 1000W HPS, if I hook up the power to 277V line on the ballast instead of the 240V (to lower amps used), what effect will this have on the bulb, and ballast.
> 
> We checked our power and have 238 volts going to our board and to the ballast.


it wont work.


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## IAm5toned (Mar 4, 2010)

Kawn said:


> Is it possible to turn my smoke detector outlet into a typical elec oultet.. I will be replacing my elec smoke detector with a battery operated one if this whole process is possible.. thanks and aloha...


no, for several reasons...
the main one being the smoke detector circuit is required by law to have smoke detectors only. tamper with it and your asking for trouble.
especially in a grow room... if your using HID id want a smoke detector!


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## 420MyTime (Mar 4, 2010)

I'm new to RIU and first I'd like to say, your offer to help all these good people with their wiring questions is AWESOME!!! You're a great asset to this website, I hope they acknowledge that. 

I've got a digital cooler controller that is basically a digital thermostat control for an evaporative (swamp) cooler. It's got the temp control, a slide switch that's "fan or fan/pump" and another slide switch that's "system off/fan low/fan high. Since I'm trying to use this to control vent fans, can I wire a fan to the fan side, as well as wire another fan to the pump side, it's all 120v with heavy copper wiring.

Thanks Bud!!!


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## IAm5toned (Mar 4, 2010)

i dont see why not, if the controller is rated to handle a motor, and if the options for that slide are fan or fan/pump id say your good to go


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## IAm5toned (Mar 4, 2010)

hey guys, ive only got like 30 subscribed threads, lol.... 
And since this thread was started by Bricktown, and he hasnt been active for 5 months that I can see, Im unsubbing this thread, and going to try and let it die.
Ive had another electrical thread going for a couple months, and I will be answering any electrical questions on it, from now on.
Nothing against this thread, theres tons of advice on it already, its just easier for me to keep up with all the posts in one thread, instead of jumping back and forth between two.
Here's a link to the thread-
*A bored electrician to answer your questions*


 RIP Thread....


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## wyteboi (Mar 5, 2010)

I'll try my best to keep this one going. Where you at bubbz? u alright? 
This is now the lazy electrician question thread. For advanced more knowledgable electrical Q's i recommend going to 5toned's new thread! 

Thanks for all the help 5toned and bubbz!


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## mmaaddmmaann (Mar 5, 2010)

Hey guys, quick electrical question for you. I'm learning a bit about electronics, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around how to apply ohm's law with a regulated power supply. Basically I have a 24v 1.5Amp regulated power supply, and a sensor that I need to power that consumes 6v and 200ma. What I'm trying to do is build a basic circuit that takes my regulated voltage, and drops it to 6v. I'm not sure if passing the voltage thru a resistor will change the fat that the voltage is regulated but not the the current. Also, what If I needed to hook up two of the sensors, will putting them in series after my resistors in the circuit be fine. Cheers for the help if anyone can. mmaaddmmaann


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## dk0515 (Mar 5, 2010)

Hey RIU

I live in a 1bedroom apartment. I currently have a 600watt hps, high velocity fan and a inline fan running. Once and a while my lights flicker. Sometime my power will shut off if I overload the circuit.

I was told from another electrician that fixed the fuse box that our wiring was really bad in our unit. A lot of the fuses share walls and different plugs. We have 15A and 20 amp fuses in our fuse box.

1) I was thinking of adding a dedicated 20amp fuse to my current fuse box, run a 12-3wire to a new wall socket right below the fuse box in my bedroom. Then running an extension cord about 30ft away to my grow area. Would this setup have the potential to cause any damage if installed correctly?

2) Install: I was going to open up the fuse box, remove the positive power line, then connect the fuse and all wires on both ends and then reconnect the power line. Is this correct?

Thanks for any help RIU


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## shinedog (Mar 5, 2010)

I'm setting up a new grow room and I need a little help with what may potentially be a screw up. I have a fairly large space that's laid out into two separate rooms. I had two circuits ran, one to each room and both 30amps. They are terminated at each end by a 3-prong dryer outlet.

Here's where my potential problem may or may not be. I had the guy at my local hydro shop fabricate a nice power source for both plugs. They were supposed to be 3 240v outlets and 1 120v outlet boards that plugged into the dryer plugs. The 240v outlets would be controlled by a timer and the 120v is outside the timer.

Now, the plugs I have on my current lights are both 240v, but they actually look like 120v. I have attached pick of both boards one of them looks like a 120v plug with the exception of the little part for the 240v. The other just looks like horizontal plugs.

Which one is correct or are they both correct? Can I swap the horizontal plugs for the ones that look more like 120v plugs? 

Then outside of all of that can a 120v item like a fan be plugged into a 240v plug?

Photo #1 matches my current plugs for my lights. Photo #2 is something I do not have.


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 5, 2010)

mmaaddmmaann said:


> Hey guys, quick electrical question for you. I'm learning a bit about electronics, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around how to apply ohm's law with a regulated power supply. Basically I have a 24v 1.5Amp regulated power supply, and a sensor that I need to power that consumes 6v and 200ma. What I'm trying to do is build a basic circuit that takes my regulated voltage, and drops it to 6v. I'm not sure if passing the voltage thru a resistor will change the fat that the voltage is regulated but not the the current. Also, what If I needed to hook up two of the sensors, will putting them in series after my resistors in the circuit be fine. Cheers for the help if anyone can. mmaaddmmaann


Passing it through a single resistor is not really going to work well.
If you take 2 resistors and connect them in series (one feeding the other) Then take that and put the 2 free ends across the 24V and 0V you have a voltage divider at the junction between the two resistors.

+24V-----------------------
|
R1
 |
|--------something between the 24V and 0
R2
|
0V-----------------------

But you will need to work out the math on R1 and R2 and the wattage needed.

Better option is to go to radio shack and grab a LM317 adjustable voltage regulator. Has the info in the back of the package. Don't forget a heat sink.


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 5, 2010)

Not the best solution. But I'd use a 10 gauge ext cord.



dk0515 said:


> Hey RIU
> 
> I live in a 1bedroom apartment. I currently have a 600watt hps, high velocity fan and a inline fan running. Once and a while my lights flicker. Sometime my power will shut off if I overload the circuit.
> 
> ...


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 5, 2010)

Photo1 is 120 outlets, 20amp at that.

As to what to plug you lamp into, Can't tell ya. What was it plugged into? Might wanna open it up and check the wiring of the ballast and make sure it *is* wired for 240. Using a 120 pug for a 240 device is just asking for trouble.



shinedog said:


> I'm setting up a new grow room and I need a little help with what may potentially be a screw up. I have a fairly large space that's laid out into two separate rooms. I had two circuits ran, one to each room and both 30amps. They are terminated at each end by a 3-prong dryer outlet.
> 
> Here's where my potential problem may or may not be. I had the guy at my local hydro shop fabricate a nice power source for both plugs. They were supposed to be 3 240v outlets and 1 120v outlet boards that plugged into the dryer plugs. The 240v outlets would be controlled by a timer and the 120v is outside the timer.
> 
> ...


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## dk0515 (Mar 5, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Not the best solution. But I'd use a 10 gauge ext cord.


What would be a better solution?

Thanks BBB


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 6, 2010)

dk0515 said:


> What would be a better solution?
> 
> Thanks BBB


Well considering you are growing in someone else's place (typically a no-no) the outlet right below it the best option. Don't think the landlord is gonna dig tearing up walls to run wire.

But be careful. have a buddy that knows this stuff? Calling it the positive wire leads me to think you might be a bit in over your head. Are they actual fuses or circuit breakers?


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## Sadista (Mar 6, 2010)

Hi Bricktown, just need some electrical advice! 
I would like to know what the maximum load capacity would be for my growroom so that I can determine the safest way to set up my equipment and to avoid the breaker tripping as soon as i get everything going! I could really do with a simple circuit for setting it all up too if you could kindly oblige!

Im guessing you need some info to determine that so il give you what I know!

Im im Ireland, so we have 230V AC here. Im not sure what the amp ratings are, im assuming its the same as in UK and ive collected this info regarding amperage, (although i dont have a clue what it means!):
Ring main maximum am reating 32a
Radial Circuit maximum amp rating 16a
Individual plugs up to 13a

I have 2 outlets in the room.
I am hoping to run 2 aircooled 1000 watt HPS and ballasts, 4 water pumps, an exhaust fan and intake fan, and 2 oscillating fans. Would all of this equipment combined be a safe load for the circuit?

I also have no clue how to go about setting up some sort of thermostat/RH meter to control fan speed, so any help there would be greatly appreciated too!

I look forward to hearing from you and thanks again for the great service you are doing for your fellow growers! 

Peace,
Sadista


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## dk0515 (Mar 7, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Well considering you are growing in someone else's place (typically a no-no) the outlet right below it the best option. Don't think the landlord is gonna dig tearing up walls to run wire.
> 
> But be careful. have a buddy that knows this stuff? Calling it the positive wire leads me to think you might be a bit in over your head. Are they actual fuses or circuit breakers?


Their actually breakers. Yeah, I'm new at this. A friend of mine had the same issue as I am having. So he hired an electrician and that guy just did exactly what I said I was planning on doing. My friend did watch the guy so he was going to come over my place and help me do it here. That guy charged him $200 for that. The extension cord he just purchased and ran. Also, I'm planning on moving out to a townhouse in a few months. I don't really care for the landlord. We don't get along at all. So I figure I will practice here so when I move into a townhouse I should be able to do a better job there.

I do have experience in soldering but not in what I'm planning on doing. Of course soldering is a lot different then when I'm about to do soon.


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## me8980109 (Mar 7, 2010)

Hi,

Terrific thread, been here several times just to read away, great stuff and these folks should really, really say a big thanks! for everything you do for them.

OK, I have a new grow room I am constructing. Right now there is no electrical running to that area in my barn. I do have electrical running to a room above that is unused. Some of this is older BX style wiring that I really would not trust with any real amperage. However, the room was wired with electrical heat a few years back (more than 7).

It has 2 eight foot long sections of electrical baseboard heating units that I have never used, they are wired to a thermostat. I tried turning the thermostat on to see if they would heat up and they did not, I suspect the circuit is still hot but maybe the thermostat is defective. I will run my tester over the line later to determine if in fact it still is hot. 12/2 wiring but seems wider than that for some reason. I have some newer 12/2, and this stuff is at least 50% wider. I would like to know if it is setup for 240v or 120v? The baseboard heaters have no information on them. There are access hatches on them to wire them, there is also a junction box that the thermostat is attached to. I do understand the concept behind wiring a 240v appliance, two hot leads (black & red) and a ground, no common I believe if it's a 12/2 setup. Wondering if it was a 240v setup how I could test the voltage at the junction box if I remove thermostat? AC or VAC on my meter, black probe to black wire, red probe to red wire? or am I gonna see some sparks.. lol I certainly respect this stuff and have no trust in a cheap meter to protect me, I do have some heavy rubber gloves I could put on.

I tried tracing this line back to my circuit breaker boxes but cannot locate it, there are a few runs made with the same type line, I have not tried to isolate it by turning circuits off yet. Can I tell from the wiring if it's 240v or 120v? And secondly, if it is 240v right to the junction box, is it possible to then run it to a point where it could be used as 120v? Maybe into a small panel with a couple of circuit breakers somehow??

I suspect because of the load the electrical baseboard would use that it is robust enough for my needs, 12/2 on a 20 AMP breaker should carry maybe 1900w? I will be pulling around 1575w. 600w light on 12 hrs, and dehumidifier cycles. Here's my load;

600w HPS (maybe 670w total)
272w CFL veg room (4 68w)
Dehumidifier (medium sized, probably uses 300-400w I'm guessing)
Few fans, pumps, and misc stuff but nothing of significant power consumption beyond whats mentioned.

I could run new electrical to this spot, but the room above that has power would require a much shorter run and if it is a 240v setup I would have to check but I'm guessing that could supply around 3800w and 20 amps to a small panel? The watts would be way more than I need and not much more than 10 amps draw for everything peak.

I'm comfortable working with the electical, I know the rules; 

Rule #1, make sure the power is off.
Rule #2, make sure the power is off.
Rule #3, make sure the power is off.

I have a lti-meter, line tester to check for hot, and the equipment I need to do the work. I just needed the advice about 240v vs 120v and if it is 240v can it be dropped down to 120v beyond the panel?

I'm sure at the panel it could be rewired to a single circuit breaker for 120v and 20 amps if needed but I like the idea of having more wattage available in the room.

Thanks!


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 8, 2010)

me8980109 said:


> Wondering if it was a 240v setup how I could test the voltage at the junction box if I remove thermostat? AC or VAC on my meter, black probe to black wire, red probe to red wire? or am I gonna see some sparks.. lol I certainly respect this stuff and have no trust in a cheap meter to protect me, I do have some heavy rubber gloves I could put on.


Rubber gloves should be checked before using. But I woudn't worry. Its not the meter that is in danger of hurting you, it the leads (probes) thats what you are holding. Read the side of them it will state what they are rated for. I'm gonna guess at *least* 600 volts.

VAC Volts, AC (~ means AC; --- over a ___ means DC)

T-stats are typically 24volts AC control. But not so sure about electrical baseboards.



> I tried tracing this line back to my circuit breaker boxes but cannot locate it, there are a few runs made with the same type line, I have not tried to isolate it by turning circuits off yet. Can I tell from the wiring if it's 240v or 120v? And secondly, if it is 240v right to the junction box, is it possible to then run it to a point where it could be used as 120v? Maybe into a small panel with a couple of circuit breakers somehow??


Measure across the lines, you will see 240, 120 or a few mv. 
as for making it 120 if 240, one hot and a neutral = 120. But, NO 240 items should be used if you do this (well at least I wouldn't)
You will need a neutral and should have a ground in the junction box
(I *hate* conduit used as a ground. Connection loosen and corrode)


> Dehumidifier (medium sized, probably uses 300-400w I'm guessing)


NEVER guess.

Watts / volts = amps. no more then 75-80% of the breaker rating should be used.


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## bongrippinbob (Mar 10, 2010)

Great thread, and I'm sure this question has probably been answered, but I am not going to read through 1700 posts.

I have a ballast kit that I am trying to wire to 240v. It is currently hooked up to 120v. I plan on cutting my "universal" 240v ballast cord and wiring that to my ballast kit. Do I just hook up the power the same way I did with the 120v? I have one wire to the wire marked 120 and the other attached to the one that says COM. Then there is a ground attached.

Do I just rewire it the same way with the 240v cord? One wire to the wire marked 240 and one to the one marked COM then just attach the ground? Or since 240v has two hot wires, do I connect one wire to the 240v, one to the 120v, and the "old ground" to the COM wire?

Thanks in advance for your help.
Bob


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 11, 2010)

You will have to open up the ballast and rewire it internally. There should be a legend on it for the different wirings it supports.



bongrippinbob said:


> Great thread, and I'm sure this question has probably been answered, but I am not going to read through 1700 posts.
> 
> I have a ballast kit that I am trying to wire to 240v. It is currently hooked up to 120v. I plan on cutting my "universal" 240v ballast cord and wiring that to my ballast kit. Do I just hook up the power the same way I did with the 120v? I have one wire to the wire marked 120 and the other attached to the one that says COM. Then there is a ground attached.
> 
> ...


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## bongrippinbob (Mar 11, 2010)

Thanks for the reply. Its actually a ballast kit so there is nothing to open up. All the wires and components are mounted on a piece of plywood.

I called HTG supply, which is where I purchased the ballast, and they told me to just hook the black wire to the 240v wire, the white to the COM wire, and the ground to a piece of metal. So its hooked up the exact same way as with 120v, only I use the 240v lead instead.


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## cman1107 (Mar 11, 2010)

if i was going to pe rsay go off grid with all solar power-- running around 16 1000 hps lights how much solar energy would i need to create to actually run the whole system and all the extras ?


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## IAm5toned (Mar 11, 2010)

lol.... youd need a solar farm about an acre across


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## buggin69 (Mar 11, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> lol.... youd need a solar farm about an acre across



just think of all the shade though


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## R1Farmer (Mar 11, 2010)

I was given a new-in-box GE Time Switch model #15087. I would like to use it to control 2 qty. 1000w HPS lights running 220v each. I would like to ask the electrical gurus out there if they could help me wire this thing up.

I'm not electrical savy though I'm comfortable enough to work with basic 120v wiring in my house. These lights are 220v (1000w) and I have already ran a single home run (10-3) to the room from a 30amp breaker. The time switch has 8 contacts in this order:

(2) TIMER
(1) NC
(1) NO
(1) COM
(1) NC2
(1) NO2
(1) COM2

I tried following the diagrams in the manual but I am not familiar with the above acronyms and the terms SPST, SPDT, DPST, ....etc. I tried reading up on them but they are a bit confusing to me. If anybody out there has had experience wiring these mechanical timers please asssit me on how I should wire them. Thank you!


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## wyteboi (Mar 12, 2010)

bongrippinbob said:


> Thanks for the reply. Its actually a ballast kit so there is nothing to open up. All the wires and components are mounted on a piece of plywood.
> 
> I called HTG supply, which is where I purchased the ballast, and they told me to just hook the black wire to the 240v wire, the white to the COM wire, and the ground to a piece of metal. So its hooked up the exact same way as with 120v, only I use the 240v lead instead.


i been wondering this for years ... just never took the time to try it. i just recently decided to try the 240 lead and the com lead and see what that gets me..... let us know how it went.....
It dont save money but it will allow me to put 2 lights on one piece of 12 wire.


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## 420forme (Mar 12, 2010)

I was wondering if you can run a 250watt hps on a 400watt hps ballast? 
I want to purchase a 400 watt hps system, but if the heat is too much I want to drop down to a 250 bulb with out having to replace the ballast. Thanks,


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## wyteboi (Mar 12, 2010)

420forme said:


> I was wondering if you can run a 250watt hps on a 400watt hps ballast?
> I want to purchase a 400 watt hps system, but if the heat is too much I want to drop down to a 250 bulb with out having to replace the ballast. Thanks,


until one of the more knowledgeable electricians answer this, i would say it might work but i wouldnt trust it.
I will either be unsafe or it will wear out that 250 very fast, in my opinion. 

i have ran 400's in 150 ballast's but not the other way around , and that probably wasnt that safe either. (nor was it brighter) so pumping 400 to a 250 just dont sound good.


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## bongrippinbob (Mar 13, 2010)

Don't use the wrong size bulb in a ballast. Especially a smaller bulb in a larger ballast.

As far as my ballast, I wired it up and its working just fine. I just free'd up 1200watts in my grow room which is nice. Now I can put a nice A/C in there!


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## wyteboi (Mar 13, 2010)

bongrippinbob said:


> Don't use the wrong size bulb in a ballast. Especially a smaller bulb in a larger ballast.
> 
> As far as my ballast, I wired it up and its working just fine. I just free'd up 1200watts in my grow room which is nice. Now I can put a nice A/C in there!


So the 240 and the Com leads worked for 220? Glad to hear that! 
How did u possibly free up 1200 watts? 
a watt is a watt no matter if its 220 or 110.


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## bongrippinbob (Mar 13, 2010)

I had 2 600watt lights hooked up at 120v taking up 1200watts or just over 10amps in my grow room. Now they are both hooked up to a lighting controller that is plugged into my laundry room with 30ft of 10g wire running to the controller. The breaker there is 30amps, but is hooked up to the controller. I don't think it would work just hooking the dryer cable up to the ballast, but who knows.


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## 420iroc (Mar 13, 2010)

how can i make a 220 light timer for 4 lights


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## goforGUSTO (Mar 13, 2010)

Hi there. i just built myself krypto's multi flow system. theres a rez that pumps water to a controller buckets which takes the pumped water and leads it to all the plants. the controller is DIY and looks like this. 












it seems like a person that had also built the same system had modified it to incorporate an air pump with lines leading into each bucket. it looked like this. 







the schematic for the original controller looks like this. 







do you or anyone happen to know how the schematics should look like with an airpump incorporated. id love to have the airpumps with airstones turn on when the buckets are flooding. thanks in advance


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## mrmadcow (Mar 13, 2010)

R1Farmer said:


> ........I tried following the diagrams in the manual but I am not familiar with the above acronyms and the terms SPST, SPDT, DPST, ....etc. I tried reading up on them but they are a bit confusing to me. If anybody out there has had experience wiring these mechanical timers please asssit me on how I should wire them. Thank you!


think of the terminals as a switch or 2,when not energized, com is shorted to NC,(NC=normal closed),when energized,com is shorted to NO (NO=normal open) if you have 2 or more coms each is isolated from the other & act as several switches that work at the same time.
DPDT means double pole,double throw so it has 2 com(poles) and each has a NO & NC terminal(throws)
DPST means double pole single throw and has 2 com but each only has a NO terminal
SPDT is single pole double throw so it will have 1 com and a NO & NC terminal attached.
when wiring 220 lights,you really have 2 110 circuits.you need to switch both hots so 1(red) goes to the com1 and the ballasts go to NO and the other hot(blk) goes to com2 & its wire from the ballasts go to NO2.if you want the lights to go on at the same time.
if you want the lights to go on opposite each other,wire 1 ballasts to the NO & NO2 terminals and the other ballast will go to the NC & NC2 terminals.
hope this helps...mc


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## chupacabra4real (Mar 14, 2010)

connected two pc fans they have 12 v and 60 ma.....connected to a 1000 ma ballast with tension change and i only give them 7,5 volts .is it possible that one day they will break?wouldn't want a surprise of cooking like that ,man.


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## bongrippinbob (Mar 14, 2010)

420iroc said:


> how can i make a 220 light timer for 4 lights


Buy a lighting controller for like $150-$250. You will be able to run up to 4x1000watts off the same controller plugged into a dryer outlet. Then you just use standard 120v timer hooked up to the trigger cord in order to run the lights from the timer.


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## chupacabra4real (Mar 15, 2010)

I connected two pc fans they run on 12 v and 60 mAmp....I connected both to a 1000 mAmp ballast with tension change and i only give them 7,5 volts....i was told to give them less voltage due to amperage difference .I would like to raise the volts though ,give them....say ....about 9 v....cause i need them to turn faster......i'm afraid to give them the full 12 v ,cause i heard they might bburn due to amperage difference (1000ballast - 60pc fan).would you please enlight my mind?Cause I don't know much in electricity .Thank you


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## mrmadcow (Mar 15, 2010)

chupacabra4real said:


> I connected two pc fans they run on 12 v and 60 mAmp....I connected both to a 1000 mAmp ballast with tension change and i only give them 7,5 volts....i was told to give them less voltage due to amperage difference .I would like to raise the volts though ,give them....say ....about 9 v....cause i need them to turn faster......i'm afraid to give them the full 12 v ,cause i heard they might bburn due to amperage difference (1000ballast - 60pc fan).would you please enlight my mind?Cause I don't know much in electricity .Thank you


when you say ballast,I assume u mean transformer?don't worry about giving them too much amperage,they will only draw what they need.a transformer w/ too few milliamps could be a problem but not to many.


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## chupacabra4real (Mar 15, 2010)

do you mean i can give them more or less .as I want ....or is it better to give the total max 12 v all the time? .............and yes ,I mean transformer.........


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 15, 2010)

The 1000ma power source is rated the max it can give, not the minimum.
The 2 6ma fans will use 120ma or about 12% of what the power supply can give. Give 'em full 12Vs. Nothing will burn out.



chupacabra4real said:


> I connected two pc fans they run on 12 v and 60 mAmp....I connected both to a 1000 mAmp ballast with tension change and i only give them 7,5 volts....i was told to give them less voltage due to amperage difference .I would like to raise the volts though ,give them....say ....about 9 v....cause i need them to turn faster......i'm afraid to give them the full 12 v ,cause i heard they might bburn due to amperage difference (1000ballast - 60pc fan).would you please enlight my mind?Cause I don't know much in electricity .Thank you


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## chupacabra4real (Mar 18, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> The 1000ma power source is rated the max it can give, not the minimum.
> The 2 6ma fans will use 120ma or about 12% of what the power supply can give. Give 'em full 12Vs. Nothing will burn out.


Thanx a millon man ,I m'really a noob when it comes to electricity.


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 19, 2010)

chupacabra4real said:


> Thanx a millon man ,I m'really a noob when it comes to electricity.


Could also think of it this way. The breaker for your outlet is 15 amps, but if you plug in a 1 amp device it doesn't blow up or use all 15 amps. Only uses what it needs.


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## burnbig420 (Mar 19, 2010)

how should i go about adding another 40amp double pole breaker and running wire to my grow room which is in my garadge.

there is plenty of exrtra space on my panel which is in my laundry room..

i already have 3 50amp double poles ran to my garadge and its just not enough

help would be much appreciated


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## GODFREY1 (Mar 22, 2010)

Man. This is a bitchin thread. Don't need any help yet. Fun Grow/Hindu Kush But I subbed anyway so I don't lose it for later when I KNOW I'll need help. Good lookin with this thread. Keep up the good work.


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## Danielsgb (Mar 23, 2010)

Well, a buddy was suppose to come help me (couple weeks ago) wire my squirrel cage exhaust fan. It's a 240 V and I wired it and made sure it worked in the installation phase. I got this timer and installed it but I'm unsure how to wire it. I don't want to get it wrong. I understand a fair amount about wiring but reading the instructions isn't helpful. Here's some pic. Any help would be greatly appreciated. My grow room is at the stage where I need it.
I think it's the bottom right on that wiring diagram pic.


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## bongrippinbob (Mar 23, 2010)

May I ask why you are wiring a timer to your exhaust fan? If that is in your flower room you will pretty much need the fan running all the time. After about 4 weeks of flower, if I turn off my fan I will end up with like 80% humidity. You will end up with moldy buds if you run your humidity that high.


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## Danielsgb (Mar 23, 2010)

bongrippinbob said:


> May I ask why you are wiring a timer to your exhaust fan? If that is in your flower room you will pretty much need the fan running all the time. After about 4 weeks of flower, if I turn off my fan I will end up with like 80% humidity. You will end up with moldy buds if you run your humidity that high.


 It's for the whole grow op. Depending on the weather that fan will move so much air that the heating system will run to much and I want to conserve power. Plus I got it for $25 so a $38 timer that can run it in 30 min increments made sense. Now if I can wire it, I will be happy.


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## bongrippinbob (Mar 23, 2010)

I'm kind of at a loss as to what you are referring to. What do you mean the heating system won't have to run? Aren't you running the fan to cool the room not heat it? When I was trying to run CO2 in my flower cab, I could only turn off the exhaust fan for about 15min before my humidity went through the roof. If you have a dehumidifier that wouldn't be a problem, but you don't want your humidity at 80% a couple of times a day. 

That fan couldn't be pulling too many watts. My 747cfm vortex only uses like 250watts. Those blowers usually use less power. So if it is at say 200watts, running 24hrs a day, with electricity costing like 15cents a kwh, you will only be spending like $20 a month. To me, $20 a month is well worth not having to worry about humidity and mold in harvest. And if your electricity is closer to 10cents a kwh, you are only spending $15 a month.


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## Danielsgb (Mar 23, 2010)

bongrippinbob said:


> I'm kind of at a loss as to what you are referring to. What do you mean the heating system won't have to run? Aren't you running the fan to cool the room not heat it? When I was trying to run CO2 in my flower cab, I could only turn off the exhaust fan for about 15min before my humidity went through the roof. If you have a dehumidifier that wouldn't be a problem, but you don't want your humidity at 80% a couple of times a day.
> 
> That fan couldn't be pulling too many watts. My 747cfm vortex only uses like 250watts. Those blowers usually use less power. So if it is at say 200watts, running 24hrs a day, with electricity costing like 15cents a kwh, you will only be spending like $20 a month. To me, $20 a month is well worth not having to worry about humidity and mold in harvest. And if your electricity is closer to 10cents a kwh, you are only spending $15 a month.


Sorry I didn't explain it much. That exhaust fan will have the DIY Carbon Filter then go out the house. A dryer vent covers it when it's off. MT winters are cold and when I tested it the furnace kicked on pretty quickly. I did more testing and it must vent a lot of air out. This house is a 70's so it's probably not to tight. . The other reason is the fan is kinda loud. I'll throw up some pics. It's a pretty cramped area. This is my first grow in 7 yrs, and a "make the best of what you can" grow op. I also can't put any more $$ into this for a while. Most likely till my first harvest.


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## chupacabra4real (Mar 24, 2010)

Is it safe to hook 6-7 40 watt cfl s on the same power cable?If so....how should it be done? (dumb question i know, but just wanna make sure I don t burn my house) +rep


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 24, 2010)

chupacabra4real said:


> Is it safe to hook 6-7 40 watt cfl s on the same power cable?If so....how should it be done? (dumb question i know, but just wanna make sure I don t burn my house) +rep



Real watts or equivalent watts?
7*40 = 280Watts /120 = 2.3 amps


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## Kalibre (Mar 24, 2010)

Hello!

I was hoping someone could help me with a question regarding computer power supplies. 

I am currently using the only PSU i had laying around, a 500w Antec, to power two computer fans inside a box. They are the average size computer fans, Thermaltake (i think they say 72+ cfm?).

How many watts does it actually use for 2 fans? Does it ummm.. spike full power when you turn it on for a second or anything like that?

I have 400w of CFL and a now a 400w HPS is coming and i'm worried about my lil' power strip. 

Thanks in advance, and i apologize if this question has been asked and answered already.



 Respect


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## Danielsgb (Mar 24, 2010)

I have another of these little fans. It says 3V 500ma. I have several power supplies from old stuff. I have 2 of these $6 fans, so if it wears them out faster no big deal (just 1 flowering harvest would be OK). I assume the mA is a tenth of A so the 210 mA =.21mA (kinda medicated).  I get that over 3V is over powering it, but would the 4.5V.4A adapter fail cause the fan is 500mA? What about the 5.0V 1000mA? Can I power both with it. both are 6V so its 2.5V out of the 3V to each right? that makes more sense to me but I want them to run like raped apes So faster is better
9V 210mA 
4.5V .4A 
7.2V 500mA 
12VAC 833mA 
9V 800mA
5.0V 1000mA
Thanks 
Daniels


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## mrmadcow (Mar 25, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> Well, a buddy was suppose to come help me (couple weeks ago) wire my squirrel cage exhaust fan. It's a 240 V .......
> I think it's the bottom right on that wiring diagram pic.


not sure about diagram ,its to fuzzy.can you post a better picture or make/model of the timer?
what I think Bob is getting at is running a fan on a timer is not a good way to control temps,a thermostat and humastate would be better.when the temps or humidity go above a preset amount, the fan goes on until it drops.you would not want the fan sitting idle while temps shoot up over 120 because the timer says it should be off.


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## Danielsgb (Mar 25, 2010)

mrmadcow said:


> not sure about diagram ,its to fuzzy.can you post a better picture or make/model of the timer?
> what I think Bob is getting at is running a fan on a timer is not a good way to control temps,a thermostat and humastate would be better.when the temps or humidity go above a preset amount, the fan goes on until it drops.you would not want the fan sitting idle while temps shoot up over 120 because the timer says it should be off.


Yea that makes sense. I was going to look into a thermostatic way to control the whole room. I can't spend any more $$ on my set-up so I'm trying to make due with what I have already. Here's more pics. I haven't found it's diagram yet online It's a GE Time Switch (56922, 15087, 15207). If this won't help I can dust my scanner off and unpack it. Thx
Daniels


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 25, 2010)

If your Antec 'puter PSU will do 500W adn you are powering 2 small case fans (typically I think 12 watts?) You are only pulling fro the wall the 2 x 12watts plus any overhead of the PSU. So only shooting from the hip, that PSU is using 35-50 watts from the wall.

The 500 watt rating is the MAX it will supply, not what it will use all the time.



Kalibre said:


> Hello!
> 
> I was hoping someone could help me with a question regarding computer power supplies.
> 
> ...


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 25, 2010)

Best not to post Q's with data when medicated 

But you need to match the voltage and have as much or more amps from the power supply.

THe motors are rated at a voltage for a reason. THe insulation on the windings is made for a certain voltage. Go over that and you rish the electricity jumping through the insulation (keep in mind that this insualtion on windings isn't more then a varnish. Keeps the windings as close as possible = better efficiency.)

Tossing on hight voltage to a motor is not a good idea. can't predict its life span without mass quantities of data that you will not get from the MFG.

If you do overdrive the motor with more voltage, then the amp requirements will drop proportionally.

And yes, 100ma = .1 Amp



Danielsgb said:


> I have another of these little fans. It says 3V 500ma. I have several power supplies from old stuff. I have 2 of these $6 fans, so if it wears them out faster no big deal (just 1 flowering harvest would be OK). I assume the mA is a tenth of A so the 210 mA =.21mA (kinda medicated).  I get that over 3V is over powering it, but would the 4.5V.4A adapter fail cause the fan is 500mA? What about the 5.0V 1000mA? Can I power both with it. both are 6V so its 2.5V out of the 3V to each right? that makes more sense to me but I want them to run like raped apes So faster is better
> 9V 210mA
> 4.5V .4A
> 7.2V 500mA
> ...


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 25, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> Yea that makes sense. I was going to look into a thermostatic way to control the whole room. I can't spend any more $$ on my set-up so I'm trying to make due with what I have already. Here's more pics. I haven't found it's diagram yet online It's a GE Time Switch (56922, 15087, 15207). If this won't help I can dust my scanner off and unpack it. Thx
> Daniels


Google had a link to the manual on first link.

Whats your Q?


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## Cheech Wizard (Mar 25, 2010)

This is a stupid question but one that i am stressing over... is it safe to have a 25 dollar duct booster fan on for.... well mine has been on 24/7 for 8 months now... Is that un-safe? it works fine and isnt hot or anything. Just want peace of mind.. Im gonna replace it but wonder if its ok to let it go another 2 months... thanks


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## Danielsgb (Mar 25, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Google had a link to the manual on first link.
> 
> Whats your Q?


Thx again. I thought the 5V 1A would work for two 3V .5A fans but I wanted to check. My Q was a couple pages back about #*1790* and #*1792* and #*1794* Thanks VERY much. PM me if I didn't include some info I also put up the ? in design and set-up under Exhaust and timer ?


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## mrmadcow (Mar 25, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> Yea that makes sense. I was going to look into a thermostatic way to control the whole room. I can't spend any more $$ on my set-up so I'm trying to make due with what I have already. Here's more pics. I haven't found it's diagram yet online It's a GE Time Switch (56922, 15087, 15207). If this won't help I can dust my scanner off and unpack it. Thx
> Daniels


a cheap thermostat for your needs should be under $20. if you keep the temps under control,humidity should stay reasonable.

manual is located here
http://www.jascoproducts.com/support/manual-downloads/applications/DocumentLibraryManager/upload/15087-15207-56922-Manual-eng.pdf

make sure you set the dipswitches for the proper voltage.- 2&3 on for 220 volts.
your guess of the bottom right is correct if you want to power it from the same 220 volt feed.
to wire it for 220,you will have 2 seperate 110 legs,most likely red and black wires. the first 2 terminals are labeled timer,red goes to one,black to the other,add a jumper wire from the first terminal to the first NO terminal and a jumper from the second terminal to the second NO terminal.next run a red and black wire from the 2 com terminals (1 to each) and attach the fan.the timer case is plastic so it cant be grounded but be sure to ground the fan.


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## Danielsgb (Mar 25, 2010)

mrmadcow said:


> a cheap thermostat for your needs should be under $20. if you keep the temps under control,humidity should stay reasonable.
> 
> manual is located here
> http://www.jascoproducts.com/support/manual-downloads/applications/DocumentLibraryManager/upload/15087-15207-56922-Manual-eng.pdf
> ...


I wired it like you said and it works perfectly. *Thank you so much*. That has been a thorn in my side for weeks. A buddy was suppose to help but he's been busy. Now I can start testing my temps over longer time intervals. 
How do I wire a cheap thermostat to it? I thought it would be a special one cause its 220V and seems more expensive. Again THX
Wish I could give more than 1 rep.

Daniels


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## mrmadcow (Mar 26, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> .....How do I wire a cheap thermostat to it? I thought it would be a special one cause its 220V and seems more expensive.


you will need to find a thermostat for air conditioner or attic fan that can handle AC voltage like this http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2E158?Pid=search
the above would be wired into 1 of your 110 legs as a switch and open when temps drop below your preset. this will work fine for a fan but would not work for a ballast as they need both sides of the 110 to be cut.
most thermostats can only switch very low volts/amps. and are made for heating -turn on when the temps drop. a relay could be used w/ something like this but would cost as much to buy as the proper thermostat.


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## Danielsgb (Mar 26, 2010)

mrmadcow said:


> you will need to find a thermostat for air conditioner or attic fan that can handle AC voltage like this http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2E158?Pid=search
> the above would be wired into 1 of your 110 legs as a switch and open when temps drop below your preset. this will work fine for a fan but would not work for a ballast as they need both sides of the 110 to be cut.
> most thermostats can only switch very low volts/amps. and are made for heating -turn on when the temps drop. a relay could be used w/ something like this but would cost as much to buy as the proper thermostat.


Once again Thank You very much. I'll get one and add it to my room. The entire room is holding 80-84 range with the intake, exhaust, and small fans all running. Once again thanks.kiss-ass


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## TNCLYN (Mar 26, 2010)

First off, thanks for sharing your knowledge.

I did not read all 181 pages, but I would like to know if you can use generators to run lights? From portable to the big 'back-up' generators. 

I would like to at least be able to use them 3-4 days a week to help with electrical costs and keep me under the radar as far as the elec. company goes.

I was thinking of using those pre-made electrical boxes with a 30 or 50 amp cord built in. My goal would be to plug these into a generator. If generators will work, do they need to be the 'sine wave' type?

I'll ask more questions if they will even work.

Thanks


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## Danielsgb (Mar 26, 2010)

I have 1 more problem if you could help? Sorry if this one is a pain. I was going to un-install my dual HPS ballast to get proper photos to post, but I'll explain the problem and maybe it'll be obvious to you.
it is 2 security 150w HPS
I wired a timer in the case and a small fan to cool it. I tested it before I put it in, but only ran leads out to test before I put it in. It had 120v on my tester but after I installed it the bulbs didn't lite up. the sockets both have 120 power, 
Here's the timer http://www.smarthome.com/59407/GE-15071-7-Day-Smart-Digital-Timer-Switch-White/p.aspx
Sorry it's this isn't enough info. I'll post more later. and get better pics

Thx Daniels


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 26, 2010)

Cheech Wizard said:


> This is a stupid question but one that i am stressing over... is it safe to have a 25 dollar duct booster fan on for.... well mine has been on 24/7 for 8 months now... Is that un-safe? it works fine and isnt hot or anything. Just want peace of mind.. Im gonna replace it but wonder if its ok to let it go another 2 months... thanks


Actually its not a stupid question. some motors are meant for intermittent duty other for constant. That fan is fine for full time running.


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 26, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> Thx again. I thought the 5V 1A would work for two 3V .5A fans but I wanted to check. My Q was a couple pages back about #*1790* and #*1792* and #*1794* Thanks VERY much. PM me if I didn't include some info I also put up the ? in design and set-up under Exhaust and timer ?


No. amps can be slip up but voltage should remain the same.


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## mrmadcow (Mar 26, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> I have 1 more problem if you could help?...... . I tested it before I put it in, but only ran leads out to test before I put it in. It had 120v on my tester but after I installed it the bulbs didn't lite up. the sockets both have 120 power,
> Thx Daniels


someone correct me if I am wrong but I think the socket should have a much higher voltage w/ no bulb in it.the ballast/cap kicks up the voltage to get the bulb to fire & then drops voltage down to a level needed to keep the bulb lit.
BTW, be careful when playing w/ the capacitor,it holds a charge even when unplugged for days.
check the wiring against a diagram see here
https://www.rollitup.org/view.php?pg=faq&cmd=article&id=653
or 
http://www.ballastkit.com/highpressuresodiumhpshidballastkit-p-333.html


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## IAm5toned (Mar 26, 2010)

mrmadcow said:


> someone correct me if I am wrong but I think the socket should have a much higher voltage w/ no bulb in it.the ballast/cap kicks up the voltage to get the bulb to fire & then drops voltage down to a level needed to keep the bulb lit.
> BTW, be careful when playing w/ the capacitor,it holds a charge even when unplugged for days.
> check the wiring against a diagram see here
> https://www.rollitup.org/view.php?pg=faq&cmd=article&id=653
> ...



the open circuit voltage for a 150w HPS ballast should be real close to 120v... if not theres an ignitor/cap problem. you need a mercury vapor lamp (same wattage as the hps) to tell the difference. if the mercury vapor lamp lights, its a ignitor problem, if its not, its the cap, or potentially cap _and_ ignitor.

if your voltage is really low, like 100v, then its most likely the ballast core has an internal fault... (magnetic ballast only)

for the original poster, i would check one thing first- make sure your lamps are snug in the sockets... you would be amazed just how many 'bad ballasts' have loose lamps.
then check your wiring. make sure you have a _known working HPS lamp_ to verify the ballast as well. a mercury lamp should only be used for testing/diagnosing.....


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## merkabah (Mar 26, 2010)

hey i was wanting to hook up 5 1000 watts, so i think i need what like 100 amp circuit breaker cause of fans and stuff , will it be okay if i hooke one ballast up each to a wall socket or what should i do, is the wall wire good if i just hook it up one a piece? thanks ahead


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## AquafinaOrbit (Mar 26, 2010)

Not growroom question, just general electricity
If you have a circuit feeding a light then into a receptacle, and you simply cut the wires going into the receptacle and put electrical tape as thick as original insulation around each conductor, what happens on those wires? Since there is no pull on the electrical tape side do they remain empty? Or would you want to wire the hot and neutral together? Seems like something I should know but guess its been to long since I've done any electrical, forgetting it all haha. Thanks


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## Danielsgb (Mar 26, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> the open circuit voltage for a 150w HPS ballast should be real close to 120v... if not theres an ignitor/cap problem. you need a mercury vapor lamp (same wattage as the hps) to tell the difference. if the mercury vapor lamp lights, its a ignitor problem, if its not, its the cap, or potentially cap _and_ ignitor.
> 
> if your voltage is really low, like 100v, then its most likely the ballast core has an internal fault... (magnetic ballast only)
> 
> ...


Once again thanks guys. I'll pull it off the wall, pull the cover and re-check the wiring. I'll get photos and give it another try.


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## Danielsgb (Mar 27, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> Once again thanks guys. I'll pull it off the wall, pull the cover and re-check the wiring. I'll get photos and give it another try.


I re-checked the wiring. Here's a drawing of how I wired it. The voltage indicator shows 120v at both sockets, and it shows power using the ground instead of the black (or white) which makes sense to me. I will get a mercury vapor bulb tomorrow and test w/ that. Of course I ran Grounds to everything. My friend explained that the timer makes the red become the new black. Is that right? It tested as I amde it, but I never hooked the bulbs up till after I put it in and finished my DIY hood. I plugged it in and the timer said it was ON ;I waited for several minutes after and no bulbs lit up.


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## IAm5toned (Mar 27, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> I re-checked the wiring. Here's a drawing of how I wired it. The voltage indicator shows 120v at both sockets, and it shows power using the ground instead of the black (or white) which makes sense to me. I will get a mercury vapor bulb tomorrow and test w/ that. Of course I ran Grounds to everything. My friend explained that the timer makes the red become the new black. Is that right? It tested as I amde it, but I never hooked the bulbs up till after I put it in and finished my DIY hood. I plugged it in and the timer said it was ON ;I waited for several minutes after and no bulbs lit up.


please, let me help you out here man....







::


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## TNCLYN (Mar 27, 2010)

Thanks for all the helpful info.

Would there be any problem(s) using portable generators to run some lighting? Not concerned about fuel costs, just would like to know if it's an option.

Does it need to be the 'sine wave' type? I would use a pre-made electrical box w/ a 30 or 50 amp plug built in to plug into the generator.

Thanks for any help!


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 27, 2010)

merkabah said:


> hey i was wanting to hook up 5 1000 watts, so i think i need what like 100 amp circuit breaker cause of fans and stuff , will it be okay if i hooke one ballast up each to a wall socket or what should i do, is the wall wire good if i just hook it up one a piece? thanks ahead


a 100 amp breaker? You *better* see how much your service is to the house. You can't just add as many breakers as you want. Most houses from what i've gathered are in the 100-200amp range of service.


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 27, 2010)

AquafinaOrbit said:


> Not growroom question, just general electricity
> If you have a circuit feeding a light then into a receptacle, and you simply cut the wires going into the receptacle and put electrical tape as thick as original insulation around each conductor, what happens on those wires? Since there is no pull on the electrical tape side do they remain empty? Or would you want to wire the hot and neutral together? Seems like something I should know but guess its been to long since I've done any electrical, forgetting it all haha. Thanks


Yeah, you forgot it all.

Use wire nuts and tape them off (or even better heat shrink tubing)
and DO NOT tie the hot and neutral together, INSTANT dead hot and tripped breaker.


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 27, 2010)

TNCLYN said:


> Thanks for all the helpful info.
> 
> Would there be any problem(s) using portable generators to run some lighting? Not concerned about fuel costs, just would like to know if it's an option.
> 
> ...


Don't know for sure, but doubt it needs to be a true sine wave. a ballast/transformer should still run on a square wave. THe induction happens on the collapse of the voltage on the primary.


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## AquafinaOrbit (Mar 27, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Yeah, you forgot it all.
> 
> Use wire nuts and tape them off (or even better heat shrink tubing)
> and DO NOT tie the hot and neutral together, INSTANT dead hot and tripped breaker.



OK good because that's what I did. (I didn't use electrical tap, just wirenuts but I'll go back and fix that _(The tieing wire thing together just came to me last night as I was typing and boy was I high haha.)_ Anyway what I am mainly interested in is whats going on in those wires? Since there is no positive/negative connection or load. Thanks again


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## Danielsgb (Mar 27, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> the open circuit voltage for a 150w HPS ballast should be real close to 120v... if not theres an ignitor/cap problem. you need a mercury vapor lamp (same wattage as the hps) to tell the difference. if the mercury vapor lamp lights, its a ignitor problem, if its not, its the cap, or potentially cap _and_ ignitor.
> 
> if your voltage is really low, like 100v, then its most likely the ballast core has an internal fault... (magnetic ballast only)
> 
> ...


Sorry my drawing sucked. I did a nicer one last night and the file was the wrong size. It was late and I was frustrated. This one shows how I have it wired. The Pic shows my mess. My friend that helped me _some_ said the red from the timer connects to the Black from Ballasts. I have all the Whites connected. I have one extension cord ran to my flowering chamber to each socket. I've looked over those diagrams and I can see I have something wrong. (or more than one) I once mis-wired it and it tripped the GFCI while testing some things. Could that have ruined both ignitors? I put the ground bar in and all extension cords in/out are on it along w/ ballasts and timer. I'll have to get a merc. bulb if I need to test/diagnose. Once again thanks for patiently helping me with this. I made sure the wire nuts were tight. I've been looking at those diagrams and I can see I just have a mental block with how this should be done to work


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## Danielsgb (Mar 27, 2010)

Can I use Hot Glue to hold/clean up the wire for this little fan? I have this tiny fan to help cool my 400w MH ballast. It seemed to cool it noticeably by feeling the ballast after 10-15 min. on. I was using hot glue for a aerocloner project and thought some could work for this. I have low/temp and normal hot glue.


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## IAm5toned (Mar 27, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> Sorry my drawing sucked. I did a nicer one last night and the file was the wrong size. It was late and I was frustrated. This one shows how I have it wired. The Pic shows my mess. My friend that helped me _some_ said the red from the timer connects to the Black from Ballasts. I have all the Whites connected. I have one extension cord ran to my flowering chamber to each socket. I've looked over those diagrams and I can see I have something wrong. (or more than one) I once mis-wired it and it tripped the GFCI while testing some things. Could that have ruined both ignitors? I put the ground bar in and all extension cords in/out are on it along w/ ballasts and timer. I'll have to get a merc. bulb if I need to test/diagnose. Once again thanks for patiently helping me with this. I made sure the wire nuts were tight. I've been looking at those diagrams and I can see I just have a mental block with how this should be done to work









ok man i edited this diagram a little for clarity's sake.
if your still having problems, what you _need_ to do is make it simple first, before you go start buying stuff like a mercury lamp. 
let me kinda guide you in the right direction for a second if you dont mind.
first thing is you need to simplify the problem. having all the components hooked up at once adds more possibilities of a problem, or what we call in the field _points of failure. _here is a checklist for how to test your setup. if your scared of using a volt meter to test live elctricity, then stiop right here, and have a pro or someone more knowledgable run through this for you...
_you said you had a tester that read 120v your going to need it here:
_1. disconnect the timer output (red) from the rest of the circuit. leave the power hooked up to the timer and turn it on so that your lights would be on if you had the red wire connected to the rest of the circuit
2.check AC voltage from the timer output (red) to the incoming neutral (white) on the power circuit.
3. if you have 105-135VAC, then the timer is good. go to step 4. if not then:
a) verify incoming power is on. if it is,
b) verify you have the timer programmed correctly. if it is, and you still have no voltage on the red wire, than
c) timer is bad
d) replace timer and proceed to step 4
4. shut the power off momentarily to the timer. 
5. next we want to work with just one ballast at a time here.
6. while the power is off, connect a single ballast with working lamp installed as shown in the diagram to the timer output (red), neutral (white) and ground (green)
7. when your done, turn the timer back on.
8. if lamp lights, connect next ballast and repeat. if not-
a) check 'open circuit voltage' at the lamp socket. this means remove the lamp from the socket, and with the power on, take a AC reading between _the center pin_ of the light socket (the very center contact in the base of the lamp socket) and the _threaded base_ (threaded metal insert that the lamp actually screws into) your looking for something real close to 120v, give or take 5 volt in either direction high or low. if you do not have 120v, verify wiring and repeat this step
b) if you are confident of your wiring and lamp will still not start CLICK HERE
c) if this resolves your issue with the first ballast, shut the power off to the timer, connect the second ballast as shown in the diagram and repeat step 8.

do this untill you figure out what the deal is, then when you take the proper corrective actions to resolve your problem, _then_ hook everything back up the way you want it too work. 

by the way that link for the troubleshooting .pdf is a very handy document... if you or anyone reading this is going to play with HID lighting I highly suggest you read it/download it......


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 27, 2010)

AquafinaOrbit said:


> OK good because that's what I did. (I didn't use electrical tap, just wirenuts but I'll go back and fix that _(The tieing wire thing together just came to me last night as I was typing and boy was I high haha.)_ Anyway what I am mainly interested in is whats going on in those wires? Since there is no positive/negative connection or load. Thanks again


Whats going on in the wires is the same thing going on, on an outlet with nothing plugged into it. It has power right to the end. (of the hot, neutral should be zero or a couple millivolts)

do label the wires live for future ref.


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## AquafinaOrbit (Mar 27, 2010)

Alright thanks.


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## Danielsgb (Mar 27, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> ok man i edited this diagram a little for clarity's sake.
> 
> do this untill you figure out what the deal is, then when you take the proper corrective actions to resolve your problem, _then_ hook everything back up the way you want it too work.
> 
> by the way that link for the troubleshooting .pdf is a very handy document... if you or anyone reading this is going to play with HID lighting I highly suggest you read it/download it......


I got it working. Thanks. This is the last part of my chamber. Here's a pic or 2. That was the last main part I needed to do of my whole Op. I started a grow Journal and I'll be Thanking You in it also. This morning after I finished the new diagram I was looking up info. I found the part in FAQ I remember looking at when I wanted to make this. It was your chart. I was LOL big time. I'm so happy to get this done.kiss-ass
Daniels


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## IAm5toned (Mar 27, 2010)

glad to help you out.
and nice work, it looks clean when its all buttoned up


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## Danielsgb (Mar 28, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> glad to help you out.
> and nice work, it looks clean when its all buttoned up


I guess you came full circle on that one. I think I saw that on OverGrow.com many years ago when I built the first half on my first grow. Was it your on that site? It went into storage until I got this room started a few months ago. I read yours and figured 2 in a gang-box with a timer would be simple and compact to fit in this grow room. Seems I complicated it a *bit* too much for myself. This site is amazing. Seeing what people have built has given me inspiration.


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## IAm5toned (Mar 28, 2010)

i made that diagram by pasting the schematic for a 150w hps ballast i found on google onto a schematic i drew from scratch.
RIU is the only site i post on.


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## Danielsgb (Mar 28, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> i made that diagram by pasting the schematic for a 150w hps ballast i found on google onto a schematic i drew from scratch.
> RIU is the only site i post on.


Quess the one years ago must have been a little different. Anyway, thanks again. Check out my Journal to see how the set-up you inspired works out.


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## IAm5toned (Mar 28, 2010)

i read your journal b4 i ever posted the first reply 

i always go out of my way to help out a patient


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## Danielsgb (Mar 29, 2010)

mrmadcow said:


> a cheap thermostat for your needs should be under $20. if you keep the temps under control,humidity should stay reasonable.
> 
> manual is located here
> http://www.jascoproducts.com/support/manual-downloads/applications/DocumentLibraryManager/upload/15087-15207-56922-Manual-eng.pdf
> ...


I got this thermostat hunter model 40170
http://www.hunterfan.com/product_detail.aspx?id=29266

Will that work to turn my fan at 85-90 range? It said for electric air conditioning. My humidity's been in the mid-20's so I'm not worried there. Once again thanks
Daniels


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## IAm5toned (Mar 29, 2010)

hunter is a great brand....
im actually not familiar with there thermostats, but they make the best fans in the world, hands down, no competition.
id say you made a good buy


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 30, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> I got this thermostat hunter model 40170
> http://www.hunterfan.com/product_detail.aspx?id=29266
> 
> Will that work to turn my fan at 85-90 range? It said for electric air conditioning. My humidity's been in the mid-20's so I'm not worried there. Once again thanks
> Daniels



Keep in mind that the contacts in a t-stat are not meant to run a load, just a signal to the HVAC equipment. Might need a relay.


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## SensiStan (Mar 30, 2010)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


Hey thanks for posting this thread ur a very helpful man  i want to wire 2 x 200w cfl's + 1 100mm Inline fan to one plug socket . will i be ok ?


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## mrmadcow (Mar 30, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> I got this thermostat hunter model 40170
> http://www.hunterfan.com/product_detail.aspx?id=29266
> 
> Will that work to turn my fan at 85-90 range? It said for electric air conditioning. My humidity's been in the mid-20's so I'm not worried there. Once again thanks
> Daniels


it will work but you will need a relay & low voltage powersupply that matches the relay. HVAC is usually 24 vac but you can use 5 or 12vdc as well.
you will need a relay that can switch 110 volts & enough amps for your fan and a transformer that outputs a voltage the relay coil can use.
1 leg of the transformer will go to the relay coil & the other will go to the thermostats RC terminal w/ a wire going from the thermostat Y terminal to the unused side of the relays coil.the thermostat is just a switch when the temps get high enough,it closes sends power from the RC terminal to the Y terminal to energize the relay(also a switch).
if you can return it,it may be easier to get a thermostat that can handle switching 110 directly.


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## Danielsgb (Mar 30, 2010)

mrmadcow said:


> it will work but you will need a relay & low voltage powersupply that matches the relay. HVAC is usually 24 vac but you can use 5 or 12vdc as well.
> you will need a relay that can switch 110 volts & enough amps for your fan and a transformer that outputs a voltage the relay coil can use.
> 1 leg of the transformer will go to the relay coil & the other will go to the thermostats RC terminal w/ a wire going from the thermostat Y terminal to the unused side of the relays coil.the thermostat is just a switch when the temps get high enough,it closes sends power from the RC terminal to the Y terminal to energize the relay(also a switch).
> if you can return it,it may be easier to get a thermostat that can handle switching 110 directly.


Damn I got the wrong one. I looked at the one you sent, and when I got ready to write it down it wouldn't come back up. that relay sounds too difficult to me. I didn't open it yet. Wanted to _know_ it was right first I got it at lowes. Can you re-post the one I need? Thanks
Daniels


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## mrmadcow (Mar 30, 2010)

orignal link -not from Lowes but cheapest I found in a 2 min search
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2E158?Pid=search


didnt find much at lowes but if you tell the clerk you are looking for a thermostat to control an attic fan he might be able to point you in right direction.make sure its rated for at least 4-5 amps at 110 vac and turns on when temp goes above set temp. (a heater thermostat turns off when temp goes above set temp)


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## buggin69 (Mar 30, 2010)

mrmadcow said:


> orignal link -not from Lowes but cheapest I found in a 2 min search
> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2E158?Pid=search
> 
> 
> didnt find much at lowes but if you tell the clerk you are looking for a thermostat to control an attic fan he might be able to point you in right direction.make sure its rated for at least 4-5 amps at 110 vac and turns on when temp goes above set temp. (a heater thermostat turns off when temp goes above set temp)


just lurking and had a question about this... that t-stat says it's for heating and cooling... does it have a switch i can't see on it somewhere or is it just in how you wire it and it does either or depending?


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## IAm5toned (Mar 30, 2010)

thermostats can get tricky pretty quick....
a heating and cooling stat usually has a switch, and it does matter how you wire it.
your heating and a/c equipment determine what type of tstat and how its wired. buying a random tstat and trying to make it work to run your random equipment is a venture doomed to fail unless you get lucky and accidentally buy the correct matching parts.
some controls are low voltage and digital, some are line voltage, some are low voltage analog...
like i said it can get tricky.

to answer your question, that is an analog SPDT tstat, open/close on rise.

this means at the set temp, one contact on the tstat is on, and one is off. when the temp changes, the switch changes state. if its heat, you would wire it so that when the temp got cool, the normally open contact closes, turning the heat on.
for a/c, its exactly the opposite, you wire the tstat so that when the temp rises, the normally open contact closes, turning on the a/c
pretty much means that this thermostat is designed to run a single peice of equipment.
whether that equipment is heat or a/c is up to you, but trying to run them both wont have the desired result with that particular tstat.
to run them both, you need a stat that is DPDT switchable. this means you can shut off either heat or ac depending on the season. most tstats in houses operate on this principle.

oh- ps- that tstat would work perfectly for daniels single fan setup


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## chupacabra4real (Apr 7, 2010)

*how much power would a 70 watt hps setup really use? check this out!* 
permalink
 was thinking of getting this http://www.francelampes.com/pro/cata...oducts_id=5487

and they recommend a ballast like this
http://www.francelampes.com/pro/cata...ducts_id=14457

How many watts in total?do I need an ignitor too???++rep


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## Mr.Miyagi (Apr 7, 2010)

im trying to figure out how many amps i can pull i dont know it is 100 amp or 200 amp, the main switch has 2 100s connected any idea?


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## Terry Mac1 (Apr 7, 2010)

HI, This is my first post, got a ? for the ELECTrician. I got a indoor high bay comm. H.I.D. shop light it is only marked marked multi- vapor 400. it looks like a M-H & shines blue-white. can i grow with it ? and if so can the bulb be mntd. horizonal ? thanks T.


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## Joemt (Apr 11, 2010)

I have a Little Grey Box timer and want to use it with (4) 220V outlets for (4) 600W lights. Do I need relays? I will be using a *Sentinel* CPPM-1 also. Does anyone know of a wiring diagram for this setup...I was trying to find one on this thread....any help would be appreciated!

I have already wired 220V to four outlets for veg room lights.

Thank you


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## bongrippinbob (Apr 12, 2010)

Terry Mac1 said:


> HI, This is my first post, got a ? for the ELECTrician. I got a indoor high bay comm. H.I.D. shop light it is only marked marked multi- vapor 400. it looks like a M-H & shines blue-white. can i grow with it ? and if so can the bulb be mntd. horizonal ? thanks T.


Your light is most likely a mercury vapor lamp. While they can be used for growing, they will not be near as efficient as a MH light.


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## MrStickyScissors (Apr 12, 2010)

bongrippinbob said:


> Your light is most likely a mercury vapor lamp. While they can be used for growing, they will not be near as efficient as a MH light.


just run a line from your breaker box wit a couple 20 amp breakers you can run 2 1,000s and a exhaust fan off every 20 amp


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## Shabang (Apr 12, 2010)

So this year im new to indoor growing and have some seedlings growing inside which i will move outside in a month or so. My question is about fans. I have heard that a 120 mm computer fan will work fine for my set up but i am unsure as to how i am going to hook it up; splice it and put it on a cord or run off of batteries? Any help here would be appreciated. Thanks again.


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## Danielsgb (Apr 12, 2010)

Shabang said:


> So this year im new to indoor growing and have some seedlings growing inside which i will move outside in a month or so. My question is about fans. I have heard that a 120 mm computer fan will work fine for my set up but i am unsure as to how i am going to hook it up; splice it and put it on a cord or run off of batteries? Any help here would be appreciated. Thanks again.


You can use a power supply to power it. I got some from the local Goodwill for $1.29 each. These guys helped explain which one I needed a while back. They are from stuff like cordless phone bases. Batteries would get spendy. You need the know the voltage and amps to know which one. Good Luck
Daniels


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## irieboy (Apr 13, 2010)

Does anyone have any experience using DC Converters? It looks like a box that has inputs for the negative and positive of a car battery then has a regular cord to plug in 120V, to recharge the battery after it drains. People usually use it as backup power, but I am wondering how much output can a fully charged 12V car battery put out as far as wattage, and for how long can it run? Hopefully you have the answers bricktown, so far you have been great help to many, thanks in advance bud =)


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## IAm5toned (Apr 13, 2010)

im not sure bricktown is still active on this thread, but ill answer your question.

to tell how long a device can run on any battery, youneed to know 2 things-

1) the batteries AH rating (amp-hour) not the CCA (cold cranking amps) rating, that's about useless for this application
the Amp-Hour rating tells you the max amount of power the battery can supply for one hour without being recharged.
the Cold Cranking Amps tells you how much power the battery can give you all at once, without being recharged.

2) the amperage of the device you want to use on the battery.

example:
you have a battery that has a 10 AH rating.
you have a device that uses 1 amp.

the device will run on the battery for 10 hours (approximate) without needing a recharge.

you have a battery that has a 7.5 AH rating
you have a device that uses 15 amps.

the device will run for 1/2 hour without needing a recharge.

hope it helps, tho i will caution you against using a battery charger to run anything that uses more than say, 1000 milliamps
a battery charger doesnt output alot of wattage, thats why it usually takes longer to charge the battery than it does to run the battery flat,


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## BigBudBalls (Apr 13, 2010)

Also keep in mind, a large draw on a battery will heat it up. Electric cars have this prob.
If the idea is to keep the lights on during power outages. First don't sweat it too much since disrupting the dark is bad. disrupting the light cycle not so much (unless its long enough to be a dark cycle)

But other option is to use a UPS for a 'puter to run a couple CFLs. That will be enough to keep the cycles right.


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## irieboy (Apr 14, 2010)

Thanks a lot guys, I really do appreciate it! I just wanted to apply this to use 2 600's or maybe even to use 1 600 as side lighting to my already existing lights, so its not like im planning on running everything on the battery I just need a boost =)


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## seaofgreen420 (Apr 14, 2010)

i read the first 12 pages and didnt really find the answer i was looking for so ill just ask, i have an extra bedroom i want to turn into a growroom, id like to run 4 1000 watt lights, exhaust fan, and a regular fan, whats the safest way to wire all this up? im completely lost when it comes to electrical problems


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## cagey (Apr 14, 2010)

bricks you are a gem - parting with all your knowledge so that we can all learn from you
many thanx
cagey


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## enigma2118 (Apr 15, 2010)

Hello there,

Here is a safety question for you. I recently purchased the HTG 400W system : 
http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=47981
Now, the guys were very helpful. For my budget I was between this one and the low cost digital. The fella at the store pretty much told me it was 6 1/2 dozen the other between the two, so I got the magnetic for my first light setup.

Having chosen the less expensive of the two, I immediately have crazy worries about the thing bursting into flames.

I planed on placing the ballast outside the cabinet on a cement block (just a solo block sitting on the floor)

So the cement block is to keep the thing from sitting on anything that shouldn't get hot. But this is all indoors (of course) so is there any way to further fire-proof the thing? Am I having irrational fears?

Thanks for any input. Cheers!


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## IAm5toned (Apr 15, 2010)

the best thing you can do for it, is to keep it cool, anyway you can.... heat is the enemy when dealing with a ballast, they have no moving parts...


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## BigBudBalls (Apr 15, 2010)

seaofgreen420 said:


> i read the first 12 pages and didnt really find the answer i was looking for so ill just ask, i have an extra bedroom i want to turn into a growroom, id like to run 4 1000 watt lights, exhaust fan, and a regular fan, whats the safest way to wire all this up? im completely lost when it comes to electrical problems


4000Watts plus fans and such. Get a dedicated line or two run. Basic outlets probably won't cut it.


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## SlightlyStoopid (Apr 15, 2010)

I like to eat buds.


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## dubsaq (Apr 15, 2010)

NEED HELP. I have two bedrooms, each with a dedicated 15 amp breaker. Could I run 2 x 1000 wt HPS with a 8" max can fan (115v/170 watts) in one bedroom. A 600 watt MH with a 6 " can fan (115v/283 watts) and portable A/C unit (115v/1050 watt). I have limited knolege of electricity, don't want to put stress on breakers or be kicking breakers all the time. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


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## IAm5toned (Apr 16, 2010)

dubs... your gonna burn your house down or be sitting in the dark everytime your lights kick on if you try to run that setup on 15 amp breakers.
sorry to be the bearer of bad news.


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## dubsaq (Apr 17, 2010)

thanks for the reply. Would it help if i addded a 30 amp breaker for each room, with its own circuit?


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## dubsaq (Apr 17, 2010)

I am using 2 x 1000 watt lumatek digital ballast. what if i turn them down to 750 watts and spread the power to other circuits in the house. Or is it to much in general for a house with 15 amp breakers.


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## IAm5toned (Apr 17, 2010)

here man... im really lazy this am. someone was asking me something similair the other day



IAm5toned said:


> your computer will use more juice than the lcd...
> if your panel has a 15 amp breaker feeding your bedrooms, its 15 amps _per circuit_, not outlet or room. to find out if your room has its own dedicated circuit (which is actually pretty common in newer buildings) shut off the breaker that is feeding the room in question, then test the outlets with a simple device such as a lamp or a cell phone/charger. make sure you test outlets outside the room.......
> you _need_ to know the total wattage of _all_ the connected equipment to the circuit you want to use. this means wattage of the lamps in the ceiling light in the room, any tv's, pc's, alarm clocks, fans etc etc. heres why-
> 
> ...


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## typ3ss (Apr 17, 2010)

Question 1
Hi i have a very important wiring question that im not sure how to ask correctly, but here it goes.
Is it ok to have a Bigger electric Wire connected to a smaller one? They are both 240 wires of course. But one is just a lot bigger than the other. 
As long as i dont pull too much ampage from the wires im fine right?

Question 2
is it true that 240v 1000watt draws about 5amp?

Thank you for your time to answer my questions


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## dubsaq (Apr 17, 2010)

thanks alot *IAm5toned for the help. *


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## ganjaluvr (Apr 17, 2010)

hey man.. quick question.


I recently purchased an extra HPS light system from 'Sun Systems'.

The thing works like a charm.. absolutely perfect and works great for what it is you know?

Well, my question is.. do they not make a conversion bulb for my lamp?

What I am needing to do is.. simply be able to run a MH bulb in my HPS lamp.

and I know for a fact that they make conversion bulbs.. its just I'm not sure as to what I need to get.

Do i need an MH conversion bulb?
Or do I need an HPS conversion bulb? 

I'm having troubles finding what I need.. but then again.. I'm not sure what I need.. so I don't really know what to look for in the first place you know? 

any help is greatly appreciated..

peace.


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## IAm5toned (Apr 18, 2010)

typ3ss said:


> Question 1
> Hi i have a very important wiring question that im not sure how to ask correctly, but here it goes.
> Is it ok to have a Bigger electric Wire connected to a smaller one? They are both 240 wires of course. But one is just a lot bigger than the other.
> As long as i dont pull too much ampage from the wires im fine right?
> ...


what matters is the size of the smaller wire, not the bigger one. the smallest wire in a circuit is what dictates the allowable amperage.

1000w @ 240v = 4.16amps


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## IAm5toned (Apr 18, 2010)

ganjaluvr said:


> hey man.. quick question.
> 
> 
> I recently purchased an extra HPS light system from 'Sun Systems'.
> ...


you need an HPS/MH conversion lamp.
good luck finding one in the 150w range.
its common to find MH/HPS lamps (from metal halide to high pressure sodium) but damn near impossible to find one that converts HPS to MH.

however, dont loose hope!
there is a better way...... albeit expensive, butmuch better than a plain mh conversion lamp.

what you need, is a 150 CMH (ceramic metal halide) they will _only_ run on hps ballasts or specially designed digital ballasts.... its just what you need. the CMH also has a greatly enhanced spectrum of light than compared to plain MH...


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## Danielsgb (Apr 18, 2010)

I thought CMH bulbs are 250w & 400w. Did they add more w's to choose from. I want to go two 400w CMH instead of a 1000w HPS for my next room design. I'd like a 600w bulb, but I thought it's still in development. They are suppose to be the shit. Less heat thrown would be a bonus too.
Daniels


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## IAm5toned (Apr 18, 2010)

GE 150w CMH-TT Metal Halide Lamp with E40 Cap......
also-
Philips ED 17 150W Ceramic Metal Halide Lamp


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## Danielsgb (Apr 18, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> GE 150w CMH-TT Metal Halide Lamp with E40 Cap......
> also-
> Philips ED 17 150W Ceramic Metal Halide Lamp


Wow nice. I'll have to see if my dual 150w HPS has ballasts that are compatible. I'm working on designing a fridge into a chamber w/ 150w Cool Tube. I already have the ballast/timer built like my dual one (THX again for showing me how do wire it) But when my HPS bulbs go out I know what I'll try to replace them with. I was cursing the lack of a 150w since I found the CMH.
Daniels


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## aidosmoke (Apr 19, 2010)

Hi
Im based in England and have a quick question for you. I dont have any outside power in my grow shed, yet. However I do have a sewage treatment plant (septic tank) next to my grow shed which is powered from my house, it has its own breaker on my fuse board. I want to take a connection from my sewage treatment plant power junction box. I have attached a photo of the junction box. Which side should I make my connection the pump or blower side? I was thinking the pump side as it has an earth. Is there a way of connecting my new wires to the existing wires without have to cut the cables?
Im planning on connecting 125cfl, 400watt hps and my extraction fan. 


Thanks in advance
Aido

https://www.rollitup.org/members/aidosmoke-albums-power-picture120739-junction-box-1.jpg


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## chops408 (Apr 23, 2010)

newbie here with a dumb question.....how can i power 4 PC fans from one power source without the computers Power supply..i gutted my tower


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## whiteflour (Apr 23, 2010)

You can buy a 12volt power supply or trickle charge from radio shack. Then just wire up the corresponding leads. If you have a spare pc power supply you can use the molex connectors. On the ATX cord (that goes to the motherboard) you'll need to find the on/off jumpers and put a toggle switch on those wires. Or You could just stuff a paper clip in the connector but be careful.


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## Michael Dee (Apr 23, 2010)

This is the last piece of the puzzle here. I'd be thankful of any advise good/bad/indifferent. I have all my grow tent (2x4x7) compotents installed but have not even began to tie all the plugs,cords,timers,extension cords,etc. together. I do have a very basic understanding of how this might go together, but was hoping that you might be able to lead me in the right direction to aquire plans,drawings, wiring diagrahams,journals,etc. Don't know what electrical accessories I need,but I do know that I could do it if I had some plan to go buy. Thanks for the help, it's appreciated...


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## whiteflour (Apr 23, 2010)

Every situation is different so it would help to know a bit more about what your doing. How many devices do you have? Lights, fans, etc. If you only have one or two lights and everything is 110v, you can get by with as little as a plugin timer and a powerstrip. If you're dealing with any 220 devices or a gang of lights then the task gets a bit more complicated. 

My first guess would be to recommend the plugin timer considering the size of the area.


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## filter funker (Apr 23, 2010)

I have a concern about a piece of equipment that i'm using in my flower room. The setup i'm using is a 400w+600w Digital ballast (total of 1000watts) on a single dedicated 15 amp 14awg circuit. I had an electrician check everything out and all the wiring on this circuit is brand new, so i'm ok there. My concern is the digital timer that my lights are plugged into. it's rated @15 amps or 1875 watts. If I flip it over after it's been running for a few hours, it feels slighty warm to the touch right under the display screen. I'm only drawing 8.33 amps according to my calculations so i should have plenty of headroom...I can't find any info on the net concerning this so i'm wondering if this is normal. The last thing i want is a fire....


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## whiteflour (Apr 23, 2010)

It's probably okay if it's just warm. It could be from the load or just the display and chips inside... similar to your cell phone. You should become alarmed if it's hot and you can't touch it. If you add any more lights though you'll definitely want to upgrade or add in a relay.


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## patlpp (Apr 23, 2010)

I have a 400 watt MH ballast setup. If I was to run say a 250 watt MH bulb instead would I run into problems? Is the impedance different between bulbs? I am electronic savy but I want the OK from a pro for affirmation. Thx


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## filter funker (Apr 23, 2010)

thanks for the reply whiteflour, it's definately not hot but mildly warm...heat+electricity freaks me out when it comes to cords,timers ect. I'll be sure to keep an eye on it though in case it gets any warmer. I also put a smoke alarm right beside it just in case. I do plan on running another light soon, but I have a 12awg extention cord that I can run from another circuit and then split the load. Too bad i'm renting , else i'd just drop a box in there and be done with it...ah well


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## BigBudBalls (Apr 24, 2010)

No. The ballast is a current limiting device. So it will allow up to 400W worth of juice through. The bulb will take what it needs, but start up inrush can wreck havok.

The bulb and ballast are a matched set. Can't deviate much (there are the 430W bulbs that are withing the 400W ballast's capabilities. But basically halving it isn't not a good idea.)



patlpp said:


> I have a 400 watt MH ballast setup. If I was to run say a 250 watt MH bulb instead would I run into problems? Is the impedance different between bulbs? I am electronic savy but I want the OK from a pro for affirmation. Thx


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## patlpp (Apr 24, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> No. The ballast is a current limiting device. So it will allow up to 400W worth of juice through. The bulb will take what it needs, but start up inrush can wreck havok.
> 
> The bulb and ballast are a matched set. Can't deviate much (there are the 430W bulbs that are withing the 400W ballast's capabilities. But basically halving it isn't not a good idea.)


Thanks +rep


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## Polecat (Apr 24, 2010)

Another Electrician here. I have been indust./comm. electrcian going on 20 years. 5 year IBEW apprenticeship.
I was just reading thread and seen that the advice here is sound. Kudos to you guys.
Seems like a good way to stay sharp. I myself rarly have to do any calculations and find myself having to look things up I know I knew.
Even If I think I know I still look it up. 

I do mostly motor and process control these days. I have ran many multi-millon dollar jobs commercially. Had a daughter and know work for a local mom and pop outfit in a big paper mill. Enough about me.

I have a question for the best electrician here.




Can you help me get these shorts out my ass?LOL


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## IAm5toned (Apr 24, 2010)

> Can you help me get these shorts out my ass?LOL


sure, let me grab my skyhook


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## whiteflour (Apr 24, 2010)

according to my aunt .... electricians do it without shorts.


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## BigBudBalls (Apr 24, 2010)

Polecat said:


> I myself rarly have to do any calculations and find myself having to look things up I know I knew.
> Even If I think I know I still look it up.


Look it up and you *will* be right. Think you know it, and its a crap shoot.
(If a customer ever questions you on looking it up. Pause and say "OK, I'll just guess from my memory, its *your* place anyways, not mine." Funny how they leave you alone after that  )

(sitting home re-writing a PLC program for a multi-machine loader/unloader for CNC lasers right now. OEM *seriously* screwed up the program. I should know, I worked for them at the time, just as a tech, and knew the mutton head that did the programing)


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## thegrownoob (Apr 24, 2010)

*Can I run a MH bulb on a MV ballast? *

This may be a really dumb question, but I managed to get my hands on a 100w Murcury Vapor home security light for like $5 at Goodwill, and I was wondering if I could just run a MH bulb in that fixture, or I would I need to do something special to get that to work for me? I'm tempted to just run the MV bulb that it came with, the whole thing is brand new, but from what I understand, MV is pretty outdated technology. I plan to use this setup for vegging only, I have an HPS for flowering.​


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## thegrownoob (Apr 24, 2010)

Tried to PM, inbox is full.


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## Polecat (Apr 25, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Look it up and you *will* be right. Think you know it, and its a crap shoot.
> (If a customer ever questions you on looking it up. Pause and say "OK, I'll just guess from my memory, its *your* place anyways, not mine." Funny how they leave you alone after that  )
> 
> (sitting home re-writing a PLC program for a multi-machine loader/unloader for CNC lasers right now. OEM *seriously* screwed up the program. I should know, I worked for them at the time, just as a tech, and knew the mutton head that did the programing)


never wrote plc program . But I know that almost all programs are screwed up. I'd be on stand by for weeks waiting for rockwell.
Its always the electricians fault at first. after we go through every connection they bring in same guy to fix the program.EVERYTIME!
WE just hook um up. Just about every thing I do these days is over enginnered. Little room for me to apply my book learnings.


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## IAm5toned (Apr 25, 2010)

in those situations.... i walk over to this disconnect/point of connection and test for voltage. then i check again at the equipment.
if theres voltage at both, i smile and say, "Well the powers on, and thats where my job stops. Would you like me to call my guy from Honeywell/Johnson Controls/etc etc? for you?"

if its my equipment... theres a lead and a helper thats about to get there asses reamed with rusty peice of 4" RMC 

ps-

no matter what, they will always need someone to hook up the robots.
yay for job security!


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## Polecat (Apr 25, 2010)

Were I work you would have to apply for a hot work permit to check voltage. After 3 hrs. waiting on the pemit all surronding equipment would have to be locked out. Then I would put on the spacesuit check the voltage. Voltage good I go back to control and learn to grow mj.
I'm not allowed to go anywere or work on anything else when i'm on standby. Just stand by. 7/12's most of the time. Last 3 shut downs I had more stand by time then touching my tools.


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## IAm5toned (Apr 25, 2010)

im all about high rises and fed contacts these days... ive done industrial in the past, and never liked it.
i miss the old days though, lol-
fuck a hot work permit, and fuck an arc suit... ive lost a circuit and im kicking breakers till i find it )


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## BigBudBalls (Apr 25, 2010)

If there's power at the incoming, then its all on me. Its a big plate, electrical, electronics, hydraulics, pneumatics, PLC, PC & Software, and then the laser itself (there's gas, HV, control, vacuum leaks, VFDs etc)


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## Tulane41 (Apr 25, 2010)

I have a 240v socket available, as well as a 120v socket. My home was built in 2005. For a 400w lumatek digital ballast which socket would be better as far as safety concerns?


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## Polecat (Apr 26, 2010)

120v would be the safest for you with such a small lighting load.
Your socket is probaly not isolated. meaning other sockets in your house might be on the same breaker.
your light will only be pulling roughly 3.5 amps. So you could def. plug other things in these sockets with no problem.
Your 120v standard house socket is fine. Assuming its on a 20 amp breaker most likly with other sockets.

As far as the 240v socket goes I would need more info to determine the saftey of using it.
All i would need to know was the breaker size feeding the recepticial.


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## Got Dank (Apr 26, 2010)

my question is about CFLs and wiring them to regular lamp cords you get in a lamp repair kit.. im sorry if this was asked already but the thread is very large

how many Twin lamp holders can be wired to one lamp cord?, ill be using 42 watt CFL bulbs.

i would like to wire 4 twin lamp holders to hold a total of 8 42 w bulbs, is this safe? should i use 2 wires?
its not about buying more lamp cords.. i have excess they were on sale at the depot.. normally 9.99 i got em for 2$ so i bought all they had(like 7- since it came with everything and some hanging chains, mainly i would like to use fewer wires to save space and make it neat but not at the cost of safety.


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## stickyburke (Apr 26, 2010)

quick question....i have a thousand watt light....ok i live where its real hot in the summer....want to know if i can put my ballast outside my room in attic....temps will prolly get around 140 in attic in the hot summer.....will ballast be ok???
?


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## BigBudBalls (Apr 26, 2010)

Polecat said:


> Your socket is probaly not isolated. meaning other sockets in your house might be on the same breaker


Thats dedicated, not isolated. Isolated would have the power going through a 1:1 transformer.

But otherwise good info.


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## BigBudBalls (Apr 26, 2010)

Its all in the wire gauge.
8*42 = 336 watts
336 watts @120 VAC = 2.8 amps

(never memorized amps per gauge, so give a looksee But I'd think 14 or even possibly 16ga would work)



Got Dank said:


> my question is about CFLs and wiring them to regular lamp cords you get in a lamp repair kit.. im sorry if this was asked already but the thread is very large
> 
> how many Twin lamp holders can be wired to one lamp cord?, ill be using 42 watt CFL bulbs.
> 
> ...


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## Polecat (Apr 26, 2010)

stickyburke said:


> quick question....i have a thousand watt light....ok i live where its real hot in the summer....want to know if i can put my ballast outside my room in attic....temps will prolly get around 140 in attic in the hot summer.....will ballast be ok???
> ?


My ballast is a class h Rated 4 180C. My capicator is only rated 90c or 194f.
you should be fine. But heat is a ballasts worst enemy the cooler you keep it the longer it will prob. last.
Elec. ballasts my have a cooler rating. 
the best thing for you to do is to go to your light manufactors web sight and look it up in the specs so you can be 100% sure.


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## Polecat (Apr 26, 2010)

sorry I seen that after i typed it. Figured he would get the point.

not trying to overrun your site. Just figured I would try to give advice on some of the simpliar points that dont take much research.
Thanks for the correction.


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## Got Dank (Apr 27, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Its all in the wire gauge.
> 8*42 = 336 watts
> 336 watts @120 VAC = 2.8 amps
> 
> (never memorized amps per gauge, so give a looksee But I'd think 14 or even possibly 16ga would work)


thanks for the info man much appreciated

in searching I found a chart with the information, figured i would share it.


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## Polecat (Apr 28, 2010)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*Don't use that chart*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That chart is not up to code. The code is what keeps you from burning your house down.
The ampacities of that chart or not the ones you use in your house. I did not read what that chart was for. Since the name of site is power stream leads me to believe they are talking about copper condutors, uninsulated, in open air. Power lines maybe.
I know that #10 wire goes on 30 amp breaker. 

I will show you the charts you need to look at. If I can't find a link I will copy it from a book I got.


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## Polecat (Apr 28, 2010)

This link may not be for houses. But is with in code. Use this chart to stay safe.
pay attenion to the * for breaker size. Like the 14 is 20 amps but can only go on a 15 amp breaker.


http://www.westernextralite.com/resources.asp?key=23


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## Got Dank (Apr 28, 2010)

i removed the link so noone gets any flase info, thanks for noticing ^^ although the numbers were fairly close to your original suggestions..

your new chart is very hard to decipher its got to many abbreviations.. ill try to find info on insulated wires though. ty


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## jestermite (Apr 28, 2010)

What's up all? _Really_ cool thread got me thinking about my stuff.. here's my question.. My dryer sits downstairs directly below my room and I'm wondering if I can tap that 220 outlet to power 2 1000W lights instead of my overtaxed wall outlets. I think that my ballasts will take 220, but I'm thinking it would be better to get a 'step-down transformer' and supply 110V to them instead? Seems easier than converting the plugs on the ballasts? Do I have that right? What I am picturing is the transformer sitting on a shelf next to the 220 socket feeding an electical cord upstairs through the floor, and supplying the ballasts. 

I'm scared everytime I plug anything else in up there that I'm going to trip a breaker. And I keep buying and adding shit. I have power strips on just about every outlet and am feeding all the needs of a 2 X 1000W, + two closets, hydro grow + ventilation + fans, heat mat, etc. all off of the wall outlets. If I can tap the 220 and run the lights on that circuit it would help wouldn't it? Please let me know where I'm effed up or if this sounds doable. I probably need a scolding for letting this electrical stuff get out of hand - I just didn't plan for it when I started with a little soil grow and 1 light. Do I need to really look at what I'm doing here? - I just took the pics lol. Give it to me straight. Thx


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## 13grower (Apr 28, 2010)

I am an electricain for over 25 years now! I am a specailty systems person. So grow rooms are right up my alley since we have been doing enviromental alarms and systems for years already. I have done room for 4 years now, and with all the good news coming down in Cali I will be doing custom room installs! from electronics to the construction as I am a General Contractor as well... Shoot me a PM for any info... Now with that said when I saw the panel board I cringed!! If you are going to use the power strips get the good one's not the 5 dollar ones... serious! send the money on the electrical side if this!!! No reason to put anyone in any harm making a mistake and reliying on the breaker to pop!!! Yes you can tap the 220 for the 2 1000 lights...


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## BigBudBalls (Apr 28, 2010)

13grower said:


> Now with that said when I saw the panel board I cringed!! If you are going to use the power strips get the good one's not the 5 dollar ones... serious! send the money on the electrical side if this!!! No reason to put anyone in any harm making a mistake and reliying on the breaker to pop!!! Yes you can tap the 220 for the 2 1000 lights...



What are the good ones????

The $5 ones and the $50 ones both rely on a $1 MOV for the surge suppression so its pointless to buy a high dollar one. MOVs fail *without* warning. and typically last 6 months to a year.

And saying its OK to tap the 220 dryer outlet for the lights is NOT a great idea if they still use the dryer. The poster didn't say if the still used the dryer or not.

(gotta be careful here handing out advice. Need to look deeper. Don't just look to see if it can work, but also look for why it can't. The mark of a good engineer)


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## jestermite (Apr 28, 2010)

hey thx to both - i've seen a lot of your posts bigbud and appreciate your time. I still use the dryer, but it's just me and it looks to be as simple as switching plugs when I want the dryer. I'm more concerned about how it will look having that cord running up into the ceiling because the house is rented and I have annual inspections to get through - I guess I'll try to incorprate a way to take it down or hide it somehow too. I'm stoked it can be done it though. I guess the next question is.. is it worth it? Do I _need_ to quit loading up the plugs in the room? I guess maybe when I do trip a breaker I'll have my answer. My grow room is not detectable to visitors in the downstairs of my home but this would change that. Look pretty funky anyway to anybody who noticed. 
Also I have a ballast kit for a 400W MH and am wondering what to put under it as the thing gets HOT. Too hot to sit on top of the plywood box. Would a baking sheet would work?


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## BigBudBalls (Apr 29, 2010)

Hang a fake plant, and coil the cord up in the pot for it. Hidden.
Have access to the breaker panel? If so, find out which outlets are used by which breakers. (you can get one of those tracers, plug it in to an outlet then use the wand on the panel to locate its breaker. They work fairly OK)
Then start adding up how much is being used. Remember 75-80% max for full time use.



jestermite said:


> hey thx to both - i've seen a lot of your posts bigbud and appreciate your time. I still use the dryer, but it's just me and it looks to be as simple as switching plugs when I want the dryer. I'm more concerned about how it will look having that cord running up into the ceiling because the house is rented and I have annual inspections to get through - I guess I'll try to incorprate a way to take it down or hide it somehow too. I'm stoked it can be done it though. I guess the next question is.. is it worth it? Do I _need_ to quit loading up the plugs in the room? I guess maybe when I do trip a breaker I'll have my answer. My grow room is not detectable to visitors in the downstairs of my home but this would change that. Look pretty funky anyway to anybody who noticed.
> Also I have a ballast kit for a 400W MH and am wondering what to put under it as the thing gets HOT. Too hot to sit on top of the plywood box. Would a baking sheet would work?


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## jestermite (Apr 29, 2010)

A fake plant! that's perfect. I should have mapped out the circuits long ago so i'm gonna get on that too. Thanks brotha


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## Polecat (Apr 29, 2010)

just to refresh my memory. Is the wire rated 125% of the breaker size?


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## Polecat (Apr 29, 2010)

My code book is at work and i'm on vacation.


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## Motobomb62 (Apr 29, 2010)

Sorry that this has probably been asked before but I've tried searching and can't find the answer. 
I have heard that a MH ballast is just an HPS ballast without the ignitor. So does this mean I can take my 400W HPS ballast (which was an HPS you-wire ballast kit from my local electrical supply store) and cut the ignitor out of the circuit to use it with a metal halide bulb? (400W) Or even better, install a dual pole switch and make it a switchable ballast? What is the difference between pulse start MH and non pulse start?
Also, I want to run 1400W from a single 120V outlet on a 15A breaker with nothing else on that circuit. That is 12hrs a day at 77% of max load, is it safe? What about 1500W? which is 88%... I think too much for the sake of safety but what do you think? Thanks


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## Danielsgb (Apr 29, 2010)

I have a 120mm Comp radio shack fan.*Thermaltake 120mm Fan (Black/Red)*

*Model:* A2368 | *Catalog #:* 28-1108


Its says 6V/7V Max Started Voltage Rated Current .38A Power Input 4.56W
I wired it to a power supply that has an output of 4.5W and .4A
That will be the right match correct? the started Voltage threw me but it says max and i used 4.5W so I'm good right?


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## gumball (Apr 29, 2010)

Well watts are a derivative of ampsXvolts. So if you multiply 12X.38 you get 4.56watts. This 6/7V max start doesn't make since to me. But the math tells me u need 12V's and the .4 amp should work


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## Danielsgb (Apr 29, 2010)

I have many to pick from. Gotta love the Rescue Mission. Which would be the best? I keep thinking I got it, but want to check. The started voltage I didn't recognize. 
Thanks
Daniels


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## gumball (Apr 29, 2010)

i looked at the manufacturers website and it didnt say 12volt either. but it is a PC fan, and uses a 4 pin molex, which really does make it 12 volt. that 6V/7V must mean it needs at a minimum that much voltage. 12 volts would be best because it would give 12 volts would be best because it would give you full CFM. you can run it at 6 volts, but it will basically be half power. dont go over 12 volts, my recommendation is 12volts & no more than .4 amps.


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## Danielsgb (Apr 29, 2010)

The 6V/7V Max Started Voltage made me think i needed lower. I wanted the 12V for full power. I have a 12VAC 833mA : 12V DC 500mA : 12VAC 300mA
So the 12VAC 300mA would be the best one?
Thanks again in advance.
Daniels


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## gumball (Apr 29, 2010)

That's what I would use until you could get one that is closer to .4 amps. The 500 mA may work, but I would worry it would burn it up. If you don't have much money in it and can get another on the cheap, go with the 500mA.


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## Danielsgb (Apr 29, 2010)

Well I'm stopping by the Rescue Mission on the way to Walmart later I guess. Might as well get the best one for it. I got them for $1.29 each and grabbed quite a few last time. Thanks
Daniels


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## IAm5toned (Apr 29, 2010)

it means the fan wont start untill you apply 6-7v dc....


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## Danielsgb (Apr 29, 2010)

It stops different than some others too. Think that will cool the ballast enough? It's 78 CFM. The holes in the bottom should cool it.
Daniels


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## IAm5toned (Apr 29, 2010)

i think you will be very happy with the results


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## Danielsgb (Apr 29, 2010)

that little fan in the dual remote ballast seems to work so far. 
Daniels


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## 420fishin (Apr 29, 2010)

can I hook up clf with cardboard box or is that a fire waitin to happen?


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## Polecat (Apr 29, 2010)

420fishin said:


> can I hook up clf with cardboard box or is that a fire waitin to happen?


Don't let the light touch the box. If you can touch the light it probaly won't set nothing on fire.

what do you fish for. Just bass


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## 420fishin (Apr 30, 2010)

Bass,catfish,Crappie and of course a woman or 2 (when the ol' lady isn't around LOL)


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## Danielsgb (Apr 30, 2010)

gumball said:


> That's what I would use until you could get one that is closer to .4 amps. The 500 mA may work, but I would worry it would burn it up. If you don't have much money in it and can get another on the cheap, go with the 500mA.


I got a 11VDC 350mA today, but they didn't have 12V .4A 
So would the 12VAC 300mA be better for the extra V but 50 mA less? I'd want the 1V for it to run at full speed right?
Daniels


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## gumball (Apr 30, 2010)

I think in that case you would want more amps (current). So let's see, 11v x .35mA=3.85 watts & 12v x .30mA=3.6watts. So that tells us the 11v should feed more current. 

Please correct me if I am wrong fellow RIU'ers


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## Mr. Blue (Apr 30, 2010)

I got a little electrical problem..
Here goes:
I grow in my garage. 
I have (2) 10amp breakers and 2 lines going out to the garage. Within the finished walls in the garage, I lose it from there. I believe all my grow equipt is run on 1 of these lines/breakers. I run (2) 400w hps/mh lights, (1) 270cfm exaust fan and (1) circulation fan. Its recently been warming up here so I installed a window unit Air Conditioner (5100btu/h - 565watts)
Heres whats now happening.... I have the AC unit set to turn on 3 times a day.. When it does, my hps light goes out. (nothing else)... When it turns back off, the hps then fires back up. If just the *fan* in the AC unit turns on, this dont happen. If the whole thing, condenser(or whatever you call it) and all turn on.. The hps goes out.
My question.. Can I update my breakers to 10amp or 20 amp. Which would be better? And am I asking for more fire hazards?

Tomorrow, at the begining of the light cycle I plan on moving some plugs around and flipping some breakers to check what breakers control what plugs and see if I can split the power up for both breakers to run the setup.


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## Danielsgb (Apr 30, 2010)

gumball said:


> I think in that case you would want more amps (current). So let's see, 11v x .35mA=3.85 watts & 12v x .30mA=3.6watts. So that tells us the 11v should feed more current.
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong fellow RIU'ers


I got it wired and it's kicking out some good airflow thanks 
Daniels


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## gumball (Apr 30, 2010)

No prob, glad I could help


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## mrmadcow (Apr 30, 2010)

Motobomb62 said:


> Sorry that this has probably been asked before but I've tried searching and can't find the answer.
> I have heard that a MH ballast is just an HPS ballast without the ignitor. So does this mean I can take my 400W HPS ballast (which was an HPS you-wire ballast kit from my local electrical supply store) and cut the ignitor out of the circuit to use it with a metal halide bulb? (400W) Or even better, install a dual pole switch and make it a switchable ballast?


NO they are different,it may work short term but I would not trust it.they use different ansi codes for each type of ballast (400w mh uses a m59 ballast & hps uses a S51 ballast) & each has different electrical characteristics. also the cap is different


Motobomb62 said:


> Also, I want to run 1400W from a single 120V outlet on a 15A breaker with nothing else on that circuit. That is 12hrs a day at 77% of max load, is it safe? What about 1500W? which is 88%... I think too much for the sake of safety but what do you think? Thanks


1400 watts would be OK but I assume you mean a couple different lights,I would put them on seperate timers & start them a minute or more apart. when a HPS ballast first fires,it draws double or more the rated current for a few milliseconds- not long enough to trip a breaker but if you are firing a 1000 and a 400 at the same time,it might overload


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## mrmadcow (Apr 30, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> I have a 120mm Comp radio shack fan.*Thermaltake 120mm Fan (Black/Red)*
> 
> *Model:* A2368 | *Catalog #:* 28-1108
> 
> ...





Danielsgb said:


> The 6V/7V Max Started Voltage made me think i needed lower. I wanted the 12V for full power. I have a 12VAC 833mA : 12V DC 500mA : 12VAC 300mA
> So the 12VAC 300mA would be the best one?
> Thanks again in advance.
> Daniels


 the transformers that say 12vac are not DC current so would not be my first pick,when it comes to the amps a transformer puts out, they list the max it can produce,it will only produce as much as is being drawn from it. if your fan draws .4 amps at 12vdc, you could use a transformer rated for 10 amps at 12vdc w/out a problem,in fact it would be better than using 1 rated at the .4 amps your fan draws because it would not be running at max output.I try to keep the draw to about 1/2 of what the transformer is rated for.


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## mrmadcow (Apr 30, 2010)

Mr. Blue said:


> I got a little electrical problem..
> Here goes:
> I grow in my garage.
> I have (2) 10amp breakers and 2 lines going out to the garage. Within the finished walls in the garage, I lose it from there. I believe all my grow equipt is run on 1 of these lines/breakers. I run (2) 400w hps/mh lights, (1) 270cfm exaust fan and (1) circulation fan. Its recently been warming up here so I installed a window unit Air Conditioner (5100btu/h - 565watts)
> ...


you can replace the breakers w/ larger ones *ONLY* if the wire is rated for it. -a 14 gauge wire is rated for 15 amps & 12 gauge wire is rated at 20 amps.the size of the wire should be labeled on the wire jacket.
sounds like when the AC kicks on,the draw is too much & the voltage drops to a level the ballast cant mantain. VERY DANGEROUS!!!! your breaker should trip & going to a larger breaker wont help. find out what breaker controls what outlets & get the AC onto a different breaker. bear in mind that the wire may feed your garage & then go into the house to feed something else so when you shut off a breaker,look inside as well to find if anything else is powered by it.


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## Mr. Blue (Apr 30, 2010)

Its a detatched garage so nothing runs back into the house.
I'll check the wire guage and if possible im going to upgrade those to 15 amp then. (for the dual 400's and fans)
I did figure out the garage door opener and another plug were on the other breaker so I was able to switch the AC over to that plug.
Thanks Madcow


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## 2ndGen (Apr 30, 2010)

I have a quick and (I hope) easy question. I'm getting ready to wire a CFL fixture. My problem is, the sockets only have hot and neutral wires, and the wire I bought has hot, neutral and ground wires. The plug is also made for hot, neutral and ground wires. So, what do I do with the ground wire when I get to the sockets? I also have an old lamp cord lying around that only has hot and neutral, should I use that instead and ignore the fact that there's no ground wire to clamp into the plug?

If it helps, I have four of these sockets: http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xh3Zarcd/R-100356874/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

A roll of this wire: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xh3/R-100686859/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

And one of these plugs: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xh3/R-100184872/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Thanks in advance!


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## whiteflour (Apr 30, 2010)

Do the sockets have some sort of mounting screw? If so then that is probably your ground and you would take the ground wire to your enclosure - which would have to be metal. If not you can just ignore the ground altogether, cut it off, and tape it over.


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## 2ndGen (May 1, 2010)

whiteflour said:


> Do the sockets have some sort of mounting screw? If so then that is probably your ground and you would take the ground wire to your enclosure - which would have to be metal. If not you can just ignore the ground altogether, cut it off, and tape it over.


 No, there's no mounting screw. Good to know I can ignore it without creating a hazard. Thanks for your help. +rep


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## IAm5toned (May 1, 2010)

NEC 406.3(E) Cord-and-Plug-Connected Equipment. The installation of grounding-type receptacles shall not be used as a requirement that all cord-and-plug-connected equipment be of the grounded type.

hint hint.... use a 2 wire cord.....just make sure it is polarized (one blade bigger than the other)

in your case, with the cfl's on 2 wire lamp sockets, you should be fine by not using the ground wire in your 3 wire cord, because there is nothing to be grounded.
as whiteflour mentioned above, just abandon the ground wire, and you should be fine.
do not use the 'mounting screw' to ground the fixture.... 

abandoning the ground wire is something that can only be done where there is literally no place to connect it to on the device in question.


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## Murfy (May 1, 2010)

i have not read this thread and if it's already been discussed and someone could direct me towards the info that would be great

i bought a convertible light fixture about 4 years ago (400W, i think it's a sunleaves MINI) anyway i took it apart and noticed there are NOT 2 ballast ass., there is 1 transformer and on on side of the housing there is a cap and an igniter, and on the other side only 1 cap.

so now i want to build my own- 1000W and was wondering if the spark could show me how to wire this all up, i want to buy a 1000W ballast kit HPS (just the components) and then wire a switch leg to another cap as to run MH

so i could just look at the wiring in the hood i have and duplicate it but
1 not sure if it's different with 1000 than 400
2 dont know the capacitor values for the 1000 MH circuit
3 i understand 99% of basic electrical concepts involved in the construction industry but this is over my head
4 this will allow me too have multiple kilo watt veg an flower room with the same equipment (really want to go dual spectrum)


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## IAm5toned (May 1, 2010)

there all the same man...
the ballast core (big heavy transformer) is nothing but a current limiting device. 

the only difference between a MH ballast and a HPS ballast is the way the lamp starts. most MH lamps are probe start. this means they do not require an ignitor. HPS lamps are pulse start, they do require an ignitor.
the cap for a probe start lamp is different than the cap for a pulse start lamp, thats why there are two seperate cap's in the switchable ballast.
look closely at your switchable ballast. there is a wire, that comes off of the ballast core, and goes to the switch. at the switch, there will be 2 wires, one will go to the ignitor cap, the other goes to the cap. all this switch does is direct the current coming from the ballast core to either a) the MH cap, or b) the HPS cap and ignitor combo.... very simple design. the switch you need is called a _form c switch, or also a SPDT _(single pole, double throw) _switch_. so basically your going to need a 1000w ballast core, and its correctly matched hps cap and ignitor combo, a SPDT form C switch, a correctly sized 1000w MH cap, and some wire and a mogul base light socket to make it work. of course you should also grab a back board or enclosure to make it pretty when your done, but thats all in the eye of the beholder.


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## Murfy (May 1, 2010)

thank you!

i will probably make boxes out of plexiglass with holes drilled in it and a copmuter fan in one end and the switch mounted on the side and maybe even green LED's in the box for some trick

anyway thanx stoned this is gonna help a bunch of people get cheap!

+


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## Motobomb62 (May 2, 2010)

So does that mean that what I asked a couple days ago about making a switchable ballast is possible, and that the transformer is exactly the same?. But what I have to do is get a seperate cap for the MH side of the circuit? It really does seem too easy though. is it?


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## IAm5toned (May 2, 2010)

yeah, its not that complicated... your just switching the load side of the transformer between the metal halide cap, and the hps cap/ignitor combo. like i said before, the ballast itself is a current limiting device, all it does is act as a resistor to limit the amount of wattage that goes to the lamp, at a constant rate.


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## sensisensai (May 2, 2010)

Would it be possible to get ya to pop in here
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/326685-need-electrician-running-240v-2.html#post4110753 and give some input? Any is appreciated :joinþ:


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## sensisensai (May 2, 2010)

New pics up in the thread. Hopefully they help


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## altnutt (May 6, 2010)

Hi,

I was wondering if you could help me out please. I don't know anything about electrical and I am having an electrician wire some lights. I want to run 4x 1000W HPS lights from one box with a timer. I want another box exactly the same with a different timer. So I will be running a total of 8 1000W HPS Lights. What type of cable should he be buying? Is there a outlet junction box like this? These will all be running 220v power cables. He is asking me what kind of box do I want. What do I do?

Altnutt


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## BigBudBalls (May 7, 2010)

Follow his suggestions.

8KW? dang man!



altnutt said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was wondering if you could help me out please. I don't know anything about electrical and I am having an electrician wire some lights. I want to run 4x 1000W HPS lights from one box with a timer. I want another box exactly the same with a different timer. So I will be running a total of 8 1000W HPS Lights. What type of cable should he be buying? Is there a outlet junction box like this? These will all be running 220v power cables. He is asking me what kind of box do I want. What do I do?
> 
> Altnutt


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## altnutt (May 7, 2010)

8KW, is this too much? I have a room 14 x 14 x 8. If I am going to do it I want to do it right.


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## BigBudBalls (May 7, 2010)

Too much? Yes an no. Too much for 5 plants but not enough for 5000.
Was more of a surprise/wow type comment.

Thought about cooling? You're *gonna* need it. Not sure if just fans and ducting will be enough.



altnutt said:


> 8KW, is this too much? I have a room 14 x 14 x 8. If I am going to do it I want to do it right.


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## altnutt (May 7, 2010)

Made a mistake on my last post, I am going to have 4x 1000w HPS, two MH in the closet for veg.

Well, I had an electrician put in a panel today inside the room with 4 outlets on one circut and 4 on the other. Each will be connected with timers. I am wondering if the humidity will affect the panel since he ran a 4 guage wire to it. Will I have problems or risk of fire because of the humidity? I will post pics once he finishes. I also plan on painting the room with some kind of paint to resist humidity. Any suggestions?

I wan to buy 4 of http://florahydroponics.com/product.aspx?id=2347 I'll install fans on each so there should be plenty of vent air going out. Seriously though, 4x 1000w HPS bulbs are too much for the room? I figure about 60 plants. Any suggestions?


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## BigBudBalls (May 8, 2010)

Run the room for a couple days with no plants to watch temps.

As for the humidity, if you keep the humidity where it should be its not going to be a prob. If you read the humidity specs on things, they state x% of non-condensing. If it does condense, then the rating is thrown out the window. But doubt you will hit that.



altnutt said:


> Made a mistake on my last post, I am going to have 4x 1000w HPS, two MH in the closet for veg.
> 
> Well, I had an electrician put in a panel today inside the room with 4 outlets on one circut and 4 on the other. Each will be connected with timers. I am wondering if the humidity will affect the panel since he ran a 4 guage wire to it. Will I have problems or risk of fire because of the humidity? I will post pics once he finishes. I also plan on painting the room with some kind of paint to resist humidity. Any suggestions?
> 
> I wan to buy 4 of http://florahydroponics.com/product.aspx?id=2347 I'll install fans on each so there should be plenty of vent air going out. Seriously though, 4x 1000w HPS bulbs are too much for the room? I figure about 60 plants. Any suggestions?


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## Danielsgb (May 8, 2010)

So just to check I can run two 12V .6A fans with a 12V 1.25A power adapter right?


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## IAm5toned (May 8, 2010)

it'll work, but might not last... check my thread, i gave a detailed answer


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## pizzlestubs (May 9, 2010)

With 3 phase 220v with 4 prong outlets how do you convert to run 3 prong standard outlets, do they might light bar conversions?


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## IAm5toned (May 9, 2010)

well first you must make sure the angle of the dangle is equal to the circumference of the swing.
then, attach the sky hook to the wire stretcher, but in reverse, so that instead of stretching the wire it is compacting the wire.
feed the 2 wires into the wire stretcher, and pull untill the have been combined.
now attach the remaining 3 wires to the receptacle. it doesnt matter where they go, it just matters there's 3 wires.


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## IAm5toned (May 9, 2010)

*disclaimer:*

ps- my last post was total bullshit


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## Potman8 (May 9, 2010)

I have a 70 watt hps light and i was wondering if i have to have a ground? It works without one but how safe is it without a ground?


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## Danielsgb (May 9, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> well first you must make sure the angle of the dangle is equal to the circumference of the swing.
> then, attach the sky hook to the wire stretcher, but in reverse, so that instead of stretching the wire it is compacting the wire.
> feed the 2 wires into the wire stretcher, and pull untill the have been combined.
> now attach the remaining 3 wires to the receptacle. it doesnt matter where they go, it just matters there's 3 wires.


I sent a new guy for an hour and a half mission for a "board stretcher" at a lumber production facility I worked at. Never heard of a sky hook and wire stretcher.
Daniels


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## BigBudBalls (May 11, 2010)

You *sure* its 3 phase? In a house (uncommon North America)?



pizzlestubs said:


> With 3 phase 220v with 4 prong outlets how do you convert to run 3 prong standard outlets, do they might light bar conversions?


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## schmitra (May 12, 2010)

how can one set a basement up to be able to run at lest 15000 watts. i don't mean where te outlets will be placed and the actual setup. Rather, what would one have to install in order for any basement to be able to handle 1500 watts, wether it be for a finished basement for a bar or anything else...


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## schmitra (May 12, 2010)

i meant 15,000 watts. in obviuosly more than one outlet but most located in one central area, where equipment would be placed,


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## bongrippinbob (May 13, 2010)

Quick question for the electrical experts here. 

I have a 600watt HPS ballast kit that I have had for about 2 1/2 years. I just rebuilt my room and had to unhook the ballast from the mogul socket. Once I connected it back together, the bulb will not light. The ballast was never moved, only disconnected from the socket. 

I hooked up my other ballast to my reflector to make sure it wasn't the bulb or the wiring to the reflector. With my second ballast it worked just fine.

The ballast kit is getting power, it is making a humming noise. The noise is a louder than usual and sounds like it is coming from the capacitor. I checked all the wire nuts to make sure they were tight and everything seemed fine.

So I know its not the bulb, the wiring to the reflector, and I'm about 100% sure its not the wiring on the ballast itself. So I have narrowed it down to one of the ballast components. I am guessing it is the capacitor because I have it directly next to the hot part of the ballast kit and the new ballasts advertise keeping there caps cooler by having them in a separate area.

Do you think that replacing my capacitor will fix the problem? I just spent like $600 redoing my room and don't have the money to buy a new ballast. Any help is apreciated.

Bob


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## BigBudBalls (May 13, 2010)

If you have an MH bulb try that. if it lights, probably the igniter if not probably the cap.



bongrippinbob said:


> Quick question for the electrical experts here.
> 
> I have a 600watt HPS ballast kit that I have had for about 2 1/2 years. I just rebuilt my room and had to unhook the ballast from the mogul socket. Once I connected it back together, the bulb will not light. The ballast was never moved, only disconnected from the socket.
> 
> ...


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## bongrippinbob (May 14, 2010)

Well I replaced the cap and the ignitor and the bulb still wont light. Any other ideas? It looks to me like I may have to spend the $125 on a new ballast.


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## IAm5toned (May 15, 2010)

schmitra said:


> i meant 15,000 watts. in obviuosly more than one outlet but most located in one central area, where equipment would be placed,


 you would need a 100 amp subpanel, a contactor or 2, couple relays, many outlets, timers. lots of things. prolly 2-3k$ parts and labor. and about 400$ a month added to your elec bill


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## dtp5150 (May 16, 2010)

Hello! I have one of these LED grow lights looking like this:






I have a multimeter. If I hold one probe and touch the other to a screw on the case, there is a 60volt reading. I also get shocked touching mylar that is touching the light case.

On another similar light, the volts are basically none.

What happened to my light? Its still working. I'd like to open it up and fix this shocking problem, but if I had a clue what to look for that would be great. It is a 300 watt light. The 60 volt reading is AC.


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## BigBudBalls (May 17, 2010)

Its not grounded.
Try this. Measure between same screw and ground (can be a metal water pipe, but make sure there is no plastic PEX in the plumbing) and see what you get.
The 60V is what floating on the units ground and the potential of *you*.

(Mylar is a clear plastic. The shinny is it with *aluminum* on one side, so it should conduct. Thats what basically makes it ideal for anti-static bags.)



dtp5150 said:


> Hello! I have one of these LED grow lights looking like this:
> 
> 
> I have a multimeter. If I hold one probe and touch the other to a screw on the case, there is a 60volt reading. I also get shocked touching mylar that is touching the light case.
> ...


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## indofasho (May 17, 2010)

got one for ya....i have a 450w max magnetic core ballast..it says i can run hps,mh, and hg. for right now im runnin it at 120v at 60hz w/400w mh n when i switch the bulb from mh to hps and try to run it... it wont fire up....do i need to run it at a different voltage???


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## dtp5150 (May 17, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Its not grounded.
> Try this. Measure between same screw and ground (can be a metal water pipe, but make sure there is no plastic PEX in the plumbing) and see what you get.
> The 60V is what floating on the units ground and the potential of *you*.
> 
> (Mylar is a clear plastic. The shinny is it with *aluminum* on one side, so it should conduct. Thats what basically makes it ideal for anti-static bags.)


Thank you for the reply!

It is around 65.3V if I touch it to another ground.

So, I should open it up and make sure the frame is grounded? I tried plugging the light into a new socket but it has made no difference.


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## BigBudBalls (May 17, 2010)

dtp5150 said:


> Thank you for the reply!
> 
> It is around 65.3V if I touch it to another ground.
> 
> So, I should open it up and make sure the frame is grounded? I tried plugging the light into a new socket but it has made no difference.


I would. 65.3 sounds like it half wave rectified. I'd say it missing the ground or just flat out wired up wrong.


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## BigBudBalls (May 17, 2010)

Should have a switch if its a magnetic/inductive ballast.



indofasho said:


> got one for ya....i have a 450w max magnetic core ballast..it says i can run hps,mh, and hg. for right now im runnin it at 120v at 60hz w/400w mh n when i switch the bulb from mh to hps and try to run it... it wont fire up....do i need to run it at a different voltage???


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## thisismynewxbox (May 17, 2010)

I recently got access to a 35 watt HPS. My question is, its a sealed box with the light on the bottom of it. There are 3 raw wires coming out, one labeled 120 volt. 

Can i just cut a computer monitor power cable to hook this up to my standard house outlet.
There is no on/off switch on this box. What do you think of that?
Any help /expertise is appreciated!!


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## Laxstar13 (May 18, 2010)

I got a question about computer fan splicing
Can i have 2 12v computers fans running off the same 12v adapter or will this lower their CFM output?


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## whiteflour (May 18, 2010)

thisismynewxbox said:


> I recently got access to a 35 watt HPS. My question is, its a sealed box with the light on the bottom of it. There are 3 raw wires coming out, one labeled 120 volt.
> 
> Can i just cut a computer monitor power cable to hook this up to my standard house outlet.
> There is no on/off switch on this box. What do you think of that?
> Any help /expertise is appreciated!!



Yes. Connect black to black, white to white, and green to green (or the ground may also be bare). I'd go on and add a switch to it while you've got the cord spliced.


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## dam612 (May 18, 2010)

so my rooms in a shed in the backyard and there is an outlet by the pool for stuff and when i plug my 600w mh/hps light w/ a surge protector into it, it pops the surg off, but doesn trip the main breaker inside. If i run the light directly into the socket it doesnt trip however. Do you think the socket outside is bad or just a shitty surge/too much for a surge? I just dont want it popping the socket bad one day and starting a fire or something, always safety first. + theres a 220 outlet (ithink for the pool pump but we dont set the pool up anymore) can this be of any use to me?


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## whiteflour (May 18, 2010)

Sounds like your surge protector is being overloaded might want to check the amperage rating on that. If your ballast can run off 220 you should probably be using it. You'll get slightly better efficiency and you'll free up load on your 110 circuit for fans and other devices. A 30A 220 circuit can run about 6000watts so you'll be well within limits.


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## dam612 (May 18, 2010)

great man thanks so much


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## indofasho (May 18, 2010)

bigbudballs
my ballast is an industrial type
like the ones u see in basketball gyms n shit...there are no switches..just a bunch of wires so i can run it at a 120 200 260 n 400 some shit like that....where would this switch be?? would u like a picture of my ballast??


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## smoke and coke (May 18, 2010)

hi i have a thread in my sig about industrial lighting. your light is probly designed to run 1 or the other either MH or HPS type bulbs but not both. post a pic of the nameplate data of your light.


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## indofasho (May 18, 2010)

there is no switch inside the cage..just wires to be ran at different voltage... and on the sticker it says hps,mh,hg 450w max..mh runs but when i stick the hps it wont light up..i hear the magnet kick on but no light


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## ninjagaiden (May 18, 2010)

Two questions 

*Question 1*
I want to get an electricity usage monitor, like this one 

http://www.p3international.com/products/p4460.html

I plan to run it like this:

Wall outlet -> electricity usage monitor -> surge protector -> timer -> Ballast and Fans

Is this safe and OK to do?

*Question 2*
Will this even work? The specs on the unit are as follows.

Operating Voltage:	115 VAC
Max Voltage:	125 VAC
Max Current:	15A
Max Power:	1875 VA

My ballast is a Lumatek 600W 120V HPS/MH E-Ballast

And I will have a 4inch Hydrofarm Fan
120v
60Hz
0.95A
113W
2910 RPM

Will this all work together? 

Thanks


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## BigBudBalls (May 18, 2010)

indofasho said:


> bigbudballs
> my ballast is an industrial type
> like the ones u see in basketball gyms n shit...there are no switches..just a bunch of wires so i can run it at a 120 200 260 n 400 some shit like that....where would this switch be?? would u like a picture of my ballast??


then its not a MH/HPS. If a MH works and a HPS doesn't, its a MH ballast. HPS have the extra igniter.


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## buckd316 (May 20, 2010)

is 2500 watts to much to run in a standard outlets in one room?


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## monty Python (May 20, 2010)

Hi all. Can anyone tell me if its safe to use a standard 4-way plug adaptor with my kit. 
Im running an rvk 100 extraction fan/ an oscillating fan/ my ballast with contactor & timer etc {250w hps}.
Ive been using a standard one for a while now with no probs, but im just wondering if i should invest in a surge protector 4 way adaptor for safety ?
Im not even sure what surge protection is etc. Would it be safer to use one in any way ?

Thanks.


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## BigBudBalls (May 20, 2010)

buckd316 said:


> is 2500 watts to much to run in a standard outlets in one room?


Do the math. The math has been posted, probably, once on each page of this thread.


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## BigBudBalls (May 20, 2010)

Don't know the specs of the fans, but you shouldn't have a prob

Surge suppressors help protect the items plugged into it from surges from the incoming power lines. they are based on MOVs (metal Oxide Varistors) These fail with *zero* warning and typically last 6 months to a year. So buy cheap ones.

The only safety built into these surge suppressors is the little circuit breaker, but they are set to 15amps, so the house breaker may trip first. (and most likely will since there probably is other things running on the same breaker circuit.)

Now on the other hand there are line conditioners, that do a LOT more. Remove transients, keep voltages in check, etc But no reason to toss on a $400 unit to protect a $100 item. They are meant more for sensitive equipment like AV where you want nice sound quality.



monty Python said:


> Hi all. Can anyone tell me if its safe to use a standard 4-way plug adaptor with my kit.
> Im running an rvk 100 extraction fan/ an oscillating fan/ my ballast with contactor & timer etc {250w hps}.
> Ive been using a standard one for a while now with no probs, but im just wondering if i should invest in a surge protector 4 way adaptor for safety ?
> Im not even sure what surge protection is etc. Would it be safer to use one in any way ?
> ...


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## gumball (May 20, 2010)

i have a question, and I currently have my own theory, which I use for safety, but I think i am wrong.

for dc fans and dc adapters. lets say the fans states that it requires 12 volt at .90 amp, which means 10.8~watts, im pretty sure. well lets say i have a 9 volt dc adapter at 1.2 amps, which equals 10.8~watts, again, im pretty sure. will this still run the fan at the same performance for the same duration as it would have receiving the 12 volt/.90 amp required by manufacturer? or 6 volt X 1.8 = 10.8? 

now i know the higher amperage, the more dangerous, so there is one negative, i think
now what about power consumption? a watt is a watt in this case, right? the lower volts are equalizing the higher amperages right?
is there anything y'all experienced fellows see newbs do with these things that are no-no's?

i was just curious about this, and i see people touch on it here and there but really not a lot. 

i try to match the amps and volts, seems safest and for best performance. dont want these things failing. but if I can safely lower the amps and/or volts without damaging the unit, i know performance will degrade with cfm and pressures, i may be able to safe a few watts. 

i aint worried bout about flagging the light company i use under 200 watts. but i try to safe a penny when i can, ya know.

edit: thats a long ^$$ post!! thanks folks, this thread is pretty good


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## smoke and coke (May 21, 2010)

indofasho said:


> there is no switch inside the cage..just wires to be ran at different voltage... and on the sticker it says hps,mh,hg 450w max..mh runs but when i stick the hps it wont light up..i hear the magnet kick on but no light
> View attachment 942745View attachment 942744


hi that nameplate data you posted is for the optics and not the ballast. somewhere on the light should be the model# of the light and it will tell you what lamp type to use. that light is not for both MH and HPS lamps.


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## indofasho (May 23, 2010)

thanks guys


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## BigBudBalls (May 24, 2010)

gumball said:


> i have a question, and I currently have my own theory, which I use for safety, but I think i am wrong.
> 
> for dc fans and dc adapters. lets say the fans states that it requires 12 volt at .90 amp, which means 10.8~watts, im pretty sure. well lets say i have a 9 volt dc adapter at 1.2 amps, which equals 10.8~watts, again, im pretty sure. will this still run the fan at the same performance for the same duration as it would have receiving the 12 volt/.90 amp required by manufacturer? or 6 volt X 1.8 = 10.8?





> now what about power consumption? a watt is a watt in this case, right? the lower volts are equalizing the higher amperages right?
> is there anything y'all experienced fellows see newbs do with these things that are no-no's?


Yes power consumption will be the same (well there probably be a bit more used in this sample since the motor won't be spinning at peak efficiency, but nothing to worry about)

Dropping the voltage isn't a great thing to do, but is OK. From 12 to 9 is nearly a 25% drop. I wouldn't go lower then that.



> i try to match the amps and volts, seems safest and for best performance. dont want these things failing. but if I can safely lower the amps and/or volts without damaging the unit, i know performance will degrade with cfm and pressures, i may be able to safe a few watts.
> 
> i aint worried bout about flagging the light company i use under 200 watts. but i try to safe a penny when i can, ya know.


You will not see even a penny saved.

What are you using the fan for? And the typical PC fans?


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## WeeGogs (May 24, 2010)

i live in uk and i have a 240v 32 amp supply for my electric cooker that i dont use as i use a gas one, an electric cooker is 11,000 watts when four hobs a grill and oven is switched on, can i run 10 X 400w metal halide from this connection using a 10mm cable to a junction splitter and run 5 x 20 amp switches with 2.5 cable each switching on two lights at a time with one switch at 2 minute intervals due to draw and surge, and if and when they are running 18 hours a day will i get any problems with my electrics overheating. someone told me you devide the voltage with the total wattage which is roughly 16 which he says accounts to 16 amps so i am ok. is he correct.


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## gumball (May 24, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Yes power consumption will be the same (well there probably be a bit more used in this sample since the motor won't be spinning at peak efficiency, but nothing to worry about)
> 
> Dropping the voltage isn't a great thing to do, but is OK. From 12 to 9 is nearly a 25% drop. I wouldn't go lower then that.
> 
> ...


im using the fans for circulation and exhaust of my cabinet.

so i should basically keep doing what I am doing, matching the voltage and amperage as closely as what the fan/manufacturer recommends? this sounds like the safest and most optimum way to maximize on power used and max output and life achieved, right?

thanks bigbudballs!!


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## oden2005 (May 25, 2010)

I have a question along the same vein as gumball's. If I am using 4 120mm PC fans (2 instake, 2 exhaust) and am powering them via a 12v DC converter should they be wired in series or parallel or a combination with 2 in series on each of 2 parallel circuits? I just want to make sure I don't start a fire by trying to draw too much power from the 12v converter which I believe may be the case if I wired all 4 in parallel? But if I wire all 4 in series would I see significant drops on the CFM of the last fan or 2 in the series? Thanks!


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## IAm5toned (May 25, 2010)

always wire in parallel unless otherwise specified by the equipment manufacturer.
and FYI- wiring in series always increases the demand factor of the power source.


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## oden2005 (May 25, 2010)

Thanks, I was under the impression that wiring in parallel increased the demand on the power source because each component in the series drew the full 12v. Where as in series the first component draws 12v and that voltage drops based on the consumption of that component so the next component in the series would get less voltage, with this continuing across all components in the series.


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## [norcal] (May 26, 2010)

Got a few questions here not exactly grow room ones hopefully that will come later. need the main power first. Pulling power into my property and I think I have already made my first mistake. Heres the set up- I installed a pole with a 200 amp meter on it which the electrical company has energized via overhead service. I'm building my house with a 200 amp panel 250' from the pole. Pretty sure I blew it goin with the 200 amp service at the pole to start with probably should have requested a 400 amp. I'm at the point of trenching conduit from the pole to my house location. I was going to install 2" or 2 1/2" conduit for the run. I have no idea what size wire to pull for the 200 amp service at 250 feet. any input??????the conduit will go to the garage where I would like to have a disconnect with a few circuits, and a back up generator plug. from there I need to run a wire 60' to feed a 200 amp sub panel I installed in the house. I already bought the 200 amp switched subpanel, maybe I should install that in the garage and install a smaller sized sub in the house. any help you guys. Thanks


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## monty Python (May 26, 2010)

> Don't know the specs of the fans, but you shouldn't have a prob
> 
> Surge suppressors help protect the items plugged into it from surges from the incoming power lines. they are based on MOVs (metal Oxide Varistors) These fail with *zero* warning and typically last 6 months to a year. So buy cheap ones.
> 
> ...


Thanks man. Didnt follow it all totally, but got the jist of it. Cheers.

What would you say the safest way to power a pc fan is ? I need to power one for an extractor fan for my dry box.
I know there is quite a few ways to do it, phone charger, 12v adapter thingy seems to be the most common. But what wouls be the safest ? 

Thanks again Bigbudballs. +rep m8.


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## IAm5toned (May 26, 2010)

oden2005 said:


> Thanks, I was under the impression that wiring in parallel increased the demand on the power source because each component in the series drew the full 12v. Where as in series the first component draws 12v and that voltage drops based on the consumption of that component so the next component in the series would get less voltage, with this continuing across all components in the series.


 less voltage = more amperage = higher wattage = poor efficiency


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## IAm5toned (May 26, 2010)

[norcal];4209897 said:


> Got a few questions here not exactly grow room ones hopefully that will come later. need the main power first. Pulling power into my property and I think I have already made my first mistake. Heres the set up- I installed a pole with a 200 amp meter on it which the electrical company has energized via overhead service. I'm building my house with a 200 amp panel 250' from the pole. Pretty sure I blew it goin with the 200 amp service at the pole to start with probably should have requested a 400 amp. I'm at the point of trenching conduit from the pole to my house location. I was going to install 2" or 2 1/2" conduit for the run. I have no idea what size wire to pull for the 200 amp service at 250 feet. any input??????the conduit will go to the garage where I would like to have a disconnect with a few circuits, and a back up generator plug. from there I need to run a wire 60' to feed a 200 amp sub panel I installed in the house. I already bought the 200 amp switched subpanel, maybe I should install that in the garage and install a smaller sized sub in the house. any help you guys. Thanks


3/0 thwn copper.... go with the 2.5", its worth the $. pulling 3/0 through 2" 90's is no fun at all. and if you ever decide to upgrade your service, the larger pipe is already in...
the smart thing to do in your situation, since your already stuck with 200amps from the pole, would be to set whats called a 200 amp NEMA 3r _main panel distribution panel_ on the pole.
unless your house is like 4000 sq ft with a dozen people in it theres a very high likliehood that you will never actually use the full 200 amps. however having a 200 amp panel in the house _will_ allow you to have the proper number of circuits to fit all the breakers required for your kitchen, bedrooms, garage, etc etc. by setting a distribution panel at the pole, it will allow you to have _up to a total of 6_ breakers in it.... you following me yet?
set the 200 amp distribution panel on the pole. feed your house panel from it with a 200 amp breaker and 3/0. 
now here's where it gets ccol, and you get bailed out, albeit the cost is more... but it is a fix, a legal fix, and a really good one at that.
so now youve got a 200 amp panel on the pole... _with 5 slots left.... _use the 5 remaining slots left in the distribution panel to feed a _seperate panel_ strictly for the grow.
not the cheapest option, but prolly the best option. as long as you dont exceed 120 amps on your grow equipment, youll be fine


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## gumball (May 26, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> less voltage = more amperage = higher wattage = poor efficiency


So does that mean if I use a lower voltage it will draw more amps , or need more?, giving me a higher wattage but lower efficiency? 

So like I said, stay as close to the required volts/amps as recommended on the device and you'll get peak efficiency???


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## IAm5toned (May 26, 2010)

amperage and voltage are inversely proportionate... the higher the voltage, the lower the amperage.

voltage is the force 'pushing' on the electrons flowing through a circuit. the higher the voltage, the more force.
amperage is a unit of measurement that dictates the amount of electrons physically moving through a conductor. 1 amp is actually a numeric expression of a finite number of electrons. please do not ask me how many electrons are in one amp... google it.
wattage is used to express the amount of work being done.. i.e, the exact amount of energy consumed or required by a device.


so voltage is inversely proportionate to amperage. wattage does not change, unless the circuit path affects the wattage.... voltage drop greatly affects wattage. buy restricting the amount of it (the wattage)available. the more voltage drop, higher amperage is required to maintain the power consumption. if your voltage drop causes the power consumption to exceed the ampacity rating of the device your are running, the device will begin to overheat and burn...
ex-
1000w @ 120v = 12 amps
1000w @ 12v = 120 amps

so if you series connected 10 1000w lamps together... the last lamp would be pulling 120 amps... make sense?


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## IAm5toned (May 26, 2010)

and im sorry if thats a little confusing... but you should see how confusing the 127 page book i have that explains pretty much the same thing i said, lol... its alot to grasp


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## gumball (May 26, 2010)

Its ok, your too smart on the subjecT for us to fully comprehend the details, but I get the jist of it. 

That's a good thing by the way. I get it all the time when I talk to people about servers and networks. I know the subject well so I unintentionally go over the head of who I am talking to. Thanks Mr 5toned! +rep to u when I get home.


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## limboavionic (May 26, 2010)

Hey there. Noob to this site and had a question on wiring two fans to a single thermostat.

I have a 6' x 6' x 12' greenhouse and will be installing two box fans from Walmart. One for intake and one for exhaust. I haven't picked up the fans yet so I do not know the voltage/current. My plan is to use a single thermostat that turns both fans on at the same time. Here is the thermostat's specs that I am looking at.

RATINGS: 16 full load amps @ 120 Volts AC.

30 deg. F to 110 Deg.F temp. range with + or - 2 Degrees accuracy.

2.5 degree differential.

Would is be possible to wire both fans into a junction box and then wire the thermostat to the box? (or any other advice on a better way)

Thanks for any info!


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## Danielsgb (May 26, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> and im sorry if thats a little confusing... but you should see how confusing the 127 page book i have that explains pretty much the same thing i said, lol... its alot to grasp


I understand it every time I've seen you explain it. Then I trip myself up smoking and planning You are the Man for all things to do with electrons Thanks again.
Daniels
(almost got my LED's set up for the trial)


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## mochadog70 (May 26, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> 3/0 thwn copper.... go with the 2.5", its worth the $. pulling 3/0 through 2" 90's is no fun at all. and if you ever decide to upgrade your service, the larger pipe is already in...
> the smart thing to do in your situation, since your already stuck with 200amps from the pole, would be to set whats called a 200 amp NEMA 3r _main panel distribution panel_ on the pole.


Why pull copper when it's so costly? Go with 4/0 AL triplex and if you are looking to save even more money you don't need conduit except when coming in/out of the building, but I would put conduit under any concrete or driveway depending on how long you are going to live there. If you did go with conduit depending on your bends that you need I would always run 3" and use long sweep 90's. It all depends where you buys this at I guess. I could get this setup way cheaper then using copper. Nobody I have ever seen uses copper feeders for residential housing.


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## BigBudBalls (May 26, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> less voltage = more amperage = higher wattage = poor efficiency


Wait. watts = volt x amps. if resistance (which is a static here) is the same, watts should be the same. Now there other varibles in play that effect efficiency.


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## BigBudBalls (May 26, 2010)

Sounds good. but with the specs, sounds like it can be, say, off at 70, and on at 74.5. Far from bad and the 2.5degree diff keeps it from cycling 15 times a minute.

use a reg thermometer to set it for 'real'.



limboavionic said:


> Hey there. Noob to this site and had a question on wiring two fans to a single thermostat.
> 
> I have a 6' x 6' x 12' greenhouse and will be installing two box fans from Walmart. One for intake and one for exhaust. I haven't picked up the fans yet so I do not know the voltage/current. My plan is to use a single thermostat that turns both fans on at the same time. Here is the thermostat's specs that I am looking at.
> 
> ...


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## IAm5toned (May 26, 2010)

mochadog70 said:


> Why pull copper when it's so costly? Go with 4/0 AL triplex and if you are looking to save even more money you don't need conduit except when coming in/out of the building, but I would put conduit under any concrete or driveway depending on how long you are going to live there. If you did go with conduit depending on your bends that you need I would always run 3" and use long sweep 90's. It all depends where you buys this at I guess. I could get this setup way cheaper then using copper. Nobody I have ever seen uses copper feeders for residential housing.


 never pull aluminum wire underground... it doesnt last 2 decades.


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## IAm5toned (May 26, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Wait. watts = volt x amps. if resistance (which is a static here) is the same, watts should be the same. Now there other varibles in play that effect efficiency.


in that example the increase in wattage came from the voltage drop due to a series connected circuit....


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## [norcal] (May 26, 2010)

Thanks for the advice on my project. I was able to figure out how to wire my house myself, but when it comes to panel and subpanel feeds its hard to find info. Definatley will go with the 2.5" conduit to make life easier. So i'm reading wat you wrote about the NEMA 3r at the pole. What is that exactly? I installed my 200 amp panel with the meter socket at my customer supplied pole which is energized. It has quite a few breaker spots left. If I ran a separate feed for a grow would that mean an additional conduit and copper wire. I'd like to split for a grow at the garage and not run two conduits. Am I missin something good here?


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## love2gro (May 26, 2010)

Is there such thing as a 30 amp for a 110v breaker?


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## killakill (May 26, 2010)

Question

I have a 600w lumatek w ushio gro light that is on a timer and when timer comes on the light will not come on unless I connect a compact fluorescent light to a different yet close outlet. Then the light ignites. 

any help appreciated.


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## Smart Start (May 27, 2010)

Might of been asked before, but I done and bought some wire to detach my socket and extend it for easier use, but the wire I bought has a lot more copper hairs in it and the bay lite has very little it's about the size of a pen point and the wire I bought is about the size of a pencil that hasn't been sharpened. Will it set my house on fire?


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## MediMary (May 27, 2010)

whats your opinion on rf interference from digital ballasts?


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## IAm5toned (May 27, 2010)

Smart Start said:


> Might of been asked before, but I done and bought some wire to detach my socket and extend it for easier use, but the wire I bought has a lot more copper hairs in it and the bay lite has very little it's about the size of a pen point and the wire I bought is about the size of a pencil that hasn't been sharpened. Will it set my house on fire?


 no. its always better to use a larger size wire, unless you cant fit it where your trying to go with it


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## IAm5toned (May 27, 2010)

MediMary said:


> whats your opinion on rf interference from digital ballasts?


 there isnt 'supposed' to be any....
but if yours is putting it out.. go to home depot, get some cheap sheet metal from the HVAC aisle, and make a shroud to shield the ballast emmisions. remember RF is line of site, so you really only have to shroud the affected area.


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## WeeGogs (May 27, 2010)

HELP!! hi there bricktown, do you think i could tap into the Main cable before it gets to my electric meter under the floor, by cutting through the ducting carefully, then by stripping the outer cable, then stripping one wire at a time with insulated tools gloves and matting, taking a feed off the exposed wire one by one to an already set up fuse box (switched off position) in another room running cable under floor, then using that fuse box to run my 10kw set up, and would my key type electric meter still show any interference, ( i went through a high power cable for a sewage pumping station once with an excavator, and watched the power guys connect it back up still live to keep the housing area with power as it was peak dinner time),my meter is the key type the power company can set my meter from the key when they put it in the machine at the shop (taking debt back,etc), anyway do you think this would work without me being caught when the guy comes to read the meter for the rest of the house.


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## IAm5toned (May 27, 2010)

[norcal];4212762 said:


> Thanks for the advice on my project. I was able to figure out how to wire my house myself, but when it comes to panel and subpanel feeds its hard to find info. Definatley will go with the 2.5" conduit to make life easier. So i'm reading wat you wrote about the NEMA 3r at the pole. What is that exactly? I installed my 200 amp panel with the meter socket at my customer supplied pole which is energized. It has quite a few breaker spots left. If I ran a separate feed for a grow would that mean an additional conduit and copper wire. I'd like to split for a grow at the garage and not run two conduits. Am I missin something good here?


a conduit does not have to have just one circuit in it..... you could pull, say, a 4 wire #6 circuit _at the same time, in the same pipe,_from the main panel on the pole into the house.... use the seperate #6 wire to feed _a seperate smaller 60 amp panel, dedicated for your grow op..._ you can even mount the smaller panel right next to the main panel so all you have to do is feed the wire through one connector and right back into another connector in the smaller panel.

in a nutshell, feeding 2 panels from one conduit, and using the main panel as a junction box vor the smaller wiring and panel.

that way you will still have all the space in your main panel, and have dedicated lines at either 120 or 240v for your grow.

make sense?

granted the added expense of the additional wire run sucks... but doing it like i suggest allows you to have just one pipe... and having that additional feed coming in from the pole is a major, major advantage, especially if your building from the ground up.
if it was me, i would have an entire 100 amp panel dedicated just for my grow, if i had the chance to start from scratch. not that id ever plan on using that much power for growing, not even half that is a huge op... but its nice to get that kind of stuff in now, vs. later... when the lawn has been planted for a cpl of years and the cost of materials has doubled. when my family built the place we live on now ages ago, my dad (who also grew lol) had the foresight to have a dedicated panel just for grows. i cussed him like i thought he deserved, because in order to have that seperate line, i had to dig a 275' ditch _by hand_ to feed it. it took me weeks. now, a few presidents later, i thank my lucky stars he made me do it. having that extra panel has been a godsend in more ways then one!


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## theSinned (May 27, 2010)

WeeGogs said:


> HELP!! hi there bricktown, do you think i could tap into the Main cable before it gets to my electric meter under the floor, by cutting through the ducting carefully, then by stripping the outer cable, then stripping one wire at a time with insulated tools gloves and matting, taking a feed off the exposed wire one by one to an already set up fuse box (switched off position) in another room running cable under floor, then using that fuse box to run my 10kw set up, and would my key type electric meter still show any interference, ( i went through a high power cable for a sewage pumping station once with an excavator, and watched the power guys connect it back up still live to keep the housing area with power as it was peak dinner time),my meter is the key type the power company can set my meter from the key when they put it in the machine at the shop (taking debt back,etc), anyway do you think this would work without me being caught when the guy comes to read the meter for the rest of the house.


Stealing electricity for your grow seems to me like a really easy way to get caught growing...


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## IAm5toned (May 27, 2010)

yeah he will get caught. its just a matter of time, accounting software, and a sweep and balance team from the power company.


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## BigBudBalls (May 27, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> yeah he will get caught. its just a matter of time, accounting software, and a sweep and balance team from the power company.


I always pondered an inductive 'sucking' scheme.

Had read an article about just gathering stray straight from the air But that could barley power a single LED. But loved the concept.

But I'm fine with paying for my electricity. And not for nothing, growing is a LOT cheaper then buying, so why risk it. And depending on th state growing can be a felony while simple possession is a misdemeanor.


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## Danielsgb (May 27, 2010)

WeeGogs said:


> are you idiots crazy, i asked a simple question, dont want an answer that says i will get caught or not thats my problem not yours, my problem was the problem question i wrote, i want my house to consume normal power through the meter, and my growroom to benefit from the 10kw i need, or do you idiots think i should pay for 10kw of power 18 hours a day,i can certainly afford it, and still have to keep the normal house running on top of that, would they not ask where all the electricity is going. tell you what, i think this site is full of little boys that hear nothing, see nothing, and worst of all talk crap, if you cant answer a simple question then keep your big mouth shut,and your schoolboy comments to yourselves and leave the answering to the big boys, did your school teacher not tell you that to keep your self out of trouble. WIMPS.


SURE wire it up they'll never notice. I'm also SURE *IAm5toned and *BigBudBalls are just now getting this electron thing down. YOU 
Once again 
Daniels


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## WeeGogs (May 27, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> SURE wire it up they'll never notice. I'm also SURE *IAm5toned and *BigBudBalls are just now getting this electron thing down. YOU
> Once again
> Daniels


 thats it wire it up, by the way, whats in the medical fridge, is it freddie mercury, and liberace by any chance.


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## IAm5toned (May 27, 2010)

so if thats the case, mr moneybags... then why are you buggering around with an illegal tap? 
look man... im just trying to keep you from either going to jail, getting hurt, or hurting someone else, or any combination of the previous.
the simple fact that _you have to ask_ tells me that you do not have the knowledge required to do what your wanting to.
if you did, you would know the answer to the question and wouldnt be wasting my time.
so good luck with your endeavor, i hope you dont lose a finger in the process.
and europe runs on 240v _because iof there shitty transmission grid..._ a prime example of shoddy work, a poor copy of an american invention


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## theceo13 (May 27, 2010)

dont know if this has been asked because im at work and i shouldnt be on here so i dont have time to read through all the pages...but does anyone know if its dangerous to use computer fans wired to cell phone chargers or wire to anything else? like is it a fire hazard at all?


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## IAm5toned (May 27, 2010)

WeeGogs said:


> hahahaha, we have nuclear power stations pal, and not a fuckin never ending queue of people that want to draw off them, like your place hence the low power, we have the power stations, the high power output in homes, and the safety records signed sealed delivered. you try run my 2 grow rooms with your power and your electric meter would fry out. i dont want to escape the bill payment, i want to hide the electric power usage you fuckin big mouth little boy, fuck off and leave my posts/.


 you have nuke power with american reactors, and american supplied plutonium refined in france fueling them. i know more about your power transmission system than you, sir 
tesla invented a/c... and the hid lights your running. an american 
and if anyone should be butting out of this thread, its you.
i was here first. you came to me asking for help, when i told you what you didnt want to hear, you took it personal, and allowed your emotions to let it get to this point.
you sir, can suck my balls...


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## gumball (May 27, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> you have nuke power with american reactors, and american supplied plutonium refined in france fueling them. i know more about your power transmission system than you, sir
> tesla invented a/c... and the hid lights your running. an american
> and if anyone should be butting out of this thread, its you.
> i was here first. you came to me asking for help, when i told you what you didnt want to hear, you took it personal, and allowed your emotions to let it get to this point.
> you sir, can suck my balls...


well said! you showed the guy all the respect in the world, and they are still an arrss!! im sorry, but i hope he trys it, only once though (my 3 personalities, and guess which one is in control tonight!!)


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## whiteflour (May 27, 2010)

We have wimpy power? Didn't you ever learn that it's amps that kill not volts? 

110v carries double the amps of 220v, not half. You're bring up a pretty dumb point as it only takes 65milliamps to kill, but 220v is "safer" in most regards.


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## IAm5toned (May 27, 2010)

here's wimpy power for you-

in the years following ww2, europe had to reconstruct its power grids. since ductile metals (soft metal that is highly desirable for wire) ie, copper and aluminum were both in high demand and heavy shortage, a method of power transmission requiring slightly less amperage was desirable for transmission purposes, because smaller wire uses less metal. less amperage = smaller wire. by increasing the voltage, lengthening the duration of the frequency, european engineers devised a power grid that could be constructed quickly, cheaply, yet with a loss of efficiency due to the higher cost of transmitting over smaller, lighter wire.

the european grid was under engineered to begin with.... and it shows in there heavy fuels consumption.


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## WeeGogs (May 28, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> here's wimpy power for you-
> 
> in the years following ww2, europe had to reconstruct its power grids. since ductile metals (soft metal that is highly desirable for wire) ie, copper and aluminum were both in high demand and heavy shortage, a method of power transmission requiring slightly less amperage was desirable for transmission purposes, because smaller wire uses less metal. less amperage = smaller wire. by increasing the voltage, lengthening the duration of the frequency, european engineers devised a power grid that could be constructed quickly, cheaply, yet with a loss of efficiency due to the higher cost of transmitting over smaller, lighter wire.
> 
> the european grid was under engineered to begin with.... and it shows in there heavy fuels consumption.


 i never asked for YOUR help, i never asked to be critiscised when i made my original post, i asked a simple question from someone that knows about the electric key meter, i never asked your opinion on anything, for the simple fact is and you 2 nut jobs have just proved it, that americans know it all but they know fuck all. now they are in a slanging match about inventions for fuck sake, ok, ok you are the best, now i will ask the rest, can anybody with any intelligence about electrics that dont want to bring my post down for what it is answer a simple question, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, no more silly comments about going getting caught etc. answer this next question please.


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## crazeehaze (May 28, 2010)

let me just suggest to ease down on the namecalling as shit like that will get you banned from this forum


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## WeeGogs (May 28, 2010)

crazeehaze said:


> let me just suggest to ease down on the namecalling as shit like that will get you banned from this forum


 i like your avatar but i never knew that cavemen smoked the weed.


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## WeeGogs (May 28, 2010)

whiteflour said:


> We have wimpy power? Didn't you ever learn that it's amps that kill not volts?
> 
> 110v carries double the amps of 220v, not half. You're bring up a pretty dumb point as it only takes 65milliamps to kill, but 220v is "safer" in most regards.


 your right 110v is safer i see what you mean now. 

check out these americans having fun :


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## Danielsgb (May 28, 2010)

WeeGogs said:


> and your saying our electrical installations our 230,000 volt cable systems have never been updated since WW II americans really are ignorant, that has made me hate yanks forever.


Take out lots of health/Life insurance for you, get all family out first, Then SURE wire it up. I lived in London for 6 months. You are the dumbest Brit I've seen. Wow good job.
Daniels


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## [norcal] (May 28, 2010)

I hadn't even thought of a second feed for my grow, but it sounds like I would regret it later or I would be digging again later when I needed more juice. I only want to do this once and do it right.So if you were me what would you do. Hell I wouldn't mind 200 amps for the house and 100 for my shop. It would be nice to only use one conduit, but would it fit in a 3 inch. Buyin the extra pipe doesnt bother me its all the conduits coming out of the panel at the pole. Guess I could build an enclosure at the pole to box things up too. Wat size conductors should i use for the second 100 amp feed. Im glad i hit you up for advice im likin this idea now thanks


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## gumball (May 28, 2010)

weegogs reported for harrassment. dude, dont come into a help thread and ask for help, then bash the users that are in here everyday helping people because you dont like their answer. i dont care what nationality you are, these folks were only looking out for your well being. sure they made a joke or 2 at your expense, but you would have to.


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## IAm5toned (May 28, 2010)

[norcal];4218222 said:


> I hadn't even thought of a second feed for my grow, but it sounds like I would regret it later or I would be digging again later when I needed more juice. I only want to do this once and do it right.So if you were me what would you do. Hell I wouldn't mind 200 amps for the house and 100 for my shop. It would be nice to only use one conduit, but would it fit in a 3 inch. Buyin the extra pipe doesnt bother me its all the conduits coming out of the panel at the pole. Guess I could build an enclosure at the pole to box things up too. Wat size conductors should i use for the second 100 amp feed. Im glad i hit you up for advice im likin this idea now thanks


it will still be a 2.5 inch conduit. you would be pulling 3/0 x 3 (2 hots, one neutral for the house 200 amps panel) #3 x 3 ( 2 hots, one neutral for grow panel) and a single #4 ground.
the ground for the grow panel should be picked up from the main panel inside the house where the 3/0 run terminates. if you were slick, you would pull enough wire to get from the main panel inside the house, to the grow panel, so you do not have to splice the conductors once they get into the house. DO NOT pull a seperate ground through the pipe for the grow panel. its completely unnecessary, like i said before, that ground can be picked up from the house panel.
all wire should be thhn, or thwn-2 copper. you can go with aluminum if you want, but its going to change the size of the wire, and hence the size of the pipe. it also wont last more than 25 years max. you dont want to go over 2.5 pipe if you can avoid it, theres a price hike between it and the next size up, which will negate the savings by going with aluminum in the first place.

i did the math, just to be sure it will fit- here it is so you can see for yourself how its done-

cross sectional area of thhn Cu conductors-
(3) 3/0 @ .2679 sq inches = .8037
(3) #3 @ .0978 sq inches = .2934
(1) #1 @ .0824 sq inches = .0824

total cross sectional area of conductors = 1.1795 sq inches

as per NEC chapter 9, table 5 shows us, 2" sched 40 pvc conduit with 2 or more conductors has a maximum fill capacity of 40% of the cross sectional area of the conduit. 40% of a 2" conduit would be 1.459 sq inches, big enough for the job, as 1.459 is > 1.1795 (the sum of all your wires). however, as i mentioned originally, 2" can be a bitch to pull through for such a long run, so by increasing the diameter of the conduit to 2.5", which has a max fill of 2.181 sq inches, the increased area inside the pipe makes the wire pull itself a much, much,much easier job.
so 2" to make it work, save a penny, but bust your ass getting it in, or 2.5 to spend a trifle more, but have the wire go through like a greasy string pulled out of a cats ass....
its all a matter of preference.


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## theceo13 (May 28, 2010)

so...i guess my question got lost in that little forum war, but i was wondering if anyone knows if its dangerous to use computer fans wired to cell phone chargers or wired to anyother power source? like is it a fire hazard at all?any chance of an electrical short?


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## IAm5toned (May 28, 2010)

no its done all the time... but a cell phone charger will not put out anough power for the fan to run safely.
you need a 12v wall adapter, sold at many many places.
heres a diagram- a switch, if desired, would break the red wire


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## whiteflour (May 28, 2010)

WeeGogs said:


> your right 110v is safer i see what you mean now.
> 
> check out these americans having fun :
> 
> ...


No lower voltage is more dangerous than higher voltage. High voltage has tendancy to knock you away from it, lower voltage likes to hold on. Not only that there are more amps in the same load at lower voltage.

Regardless to what you think fresh water is not very conductive at all. You have to add salts or acids for conductivity. I've seen server rooms get flooded by a river and the computers just kept on chugging.

Next please!


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## IAm5toned (May 28, 2010)

so you would rather grab onto some 480 than 110?

interesting.


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## whiteflour (May 28, 2010)

LOL 

Well like I said the point was pretty moot.... especially when you consider higher voltages are meant for higher loads.

You won't catch me grabbing any of them.


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## IAm5toned (May 28, 2010)

whiteflour said:


> No lower voltage is more dangerous than higher voltage. High voltage has tendancy to knock you away from it, lower voltage likes to hold on. Not only that there are more amps in the same load at lower voltage.
> 
> Regardless to what you think fresh water is not very conductive at all. You have to add salts or acids for conductivity. I've seen server rooms get flooded by a river and the computers just kept on chugging.
> 
> Next please!


that is an old wives tale that will get you killed, plain and simple.
it all comes down to potential energy.
the higher the voltage, the more potential energy.
what changes? the duration of time between the time it takes for a breaker to kick.
why is this? because 20 amps of 277 has alot more power behind it than 20 amps of 120.
you dont believe me, next time you have the chance and no one is looking, take 120 directly to ground, and observe.
next, take 277 volts to ground. use your kleins to hold the 277 wire, as the heat released will be enough to give you 2nd degree burns.
do NOT attempt this with live 480... the flash alone could be enough to start your clothes burning and give you 3rd degree flash burns

as far as getting shocked with voltages higher than 110, this is what happens-
typically, you get stuck to the wire. this is because the amperage that is now running through your body overpowers the electrical impulses your brain is trying to send to your muscles to let go. you cant let go even if you wanted to. someone else would have to be incredibly strong and have there adrenaline going just to have the strength to knock you off the wire and save your life. then, because you are a poor conductor, the area making contact with the energized part on your body heats up and begins to burn. this process changes the conductive properties of the point of contact, and actually reduces the amount of power going through you. this is the point that your finally able to 'let go' if your lucky, the entire affair is over in a millisecond or 4.. but it feels like a lifetime, and you walk away with what looks like a nasty sunburn on one spot and a numb arm that aches for a couple of days.
if your not lucky, what happens is this- the heat continues to build up, untill something that is energized reaches its flash point (the point in which the materials within cease to be solids/liquids and expand into gasses from excessive heat) then, there is an explosion of _energized gas_ that both electrocutes and then burns anything it comes into contact with. the duration of this flash is in nanoseconds. its over before you can even process the images your eyes are seeing. this same explosion is what 'blows a man clear' of the line, if he is lucky... or else he will soon be a crispy critter. more often than not, arms, legs, fingers, heads, you name it are left behind during one of these explosive events. then, after the explosion occurs, anything that is combustable and retaining excessive heat, now erupts into flame and starts to burn... like your hair and clothes.
so from start to finish, aprox .025 of 1 second, you just went from cutting a wire, to blown the fuck up.

yeah, higher voltage is safer....
maybe if your trying to get out of the gene pool.


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## gumball (May 28, 2010)

WeeeGogs said:


> how do you propose to ban me it only takes 2 mins to make a new account.
> 
> View attachment 962627


i only reported you, i cant ban you. i left it to the mod's to ban to you if they seen fit. i guess they did. i guess they will again. we dont need your harrassing behavior bringing down our good educational time.

and it only takes a minute to report you.


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## gumball (May 28, 2010)

WeeeGogs said:


> how do you propose to ban me it only takes 2 mins to make a new account.
> 
> View attachment 962627


please dont post pictures of yourself on this site.


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## whiteflour (May 28, 2010)

WeeeGogs said:


> we use 110v power on our building sites and the equipment is fuckin useless,


Sounds like you have a pansy European tool. I know.... I sell tools and Europeans always come looking for American made. I could sell you a black & decker that I guarantee will spin YOU around. It's all about rpms and torque ratios.


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## whiteflour (May 28, 2010)

Black & Decker doesn't even make their consumer line tools, so if that's what you're thinking I agree. You'd want their Industrial products which are only available through large contracts. I get them through Boeing and Northrop.... aircraft manufactures. Big time fabrication.


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## gumball (May 28, 2010)

WeeeGogs said:


> and i have reported this site to microsoft, who have reported the site to the internet watch foundation, who will be reading through the written material over the next few days, to decide whether the material written on this website will be used for an illegal gain by others or if it is just harmless fun.
> lets wait for the outcome.
> and see who gets banned.
> managed to build a complete growroom from material from this website without ever even seeing a cannabis plant.


well you should really let rollitup or one of his mod's know, this is just an electrical help thread. if the site goes away we will just go to another...


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## theceo13 (May 28, 2010)

they wont take this site down...they wont do anything. just ignore the biatch, she just wants attention.


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## gumball (May 28, 2010)

theceo13 said:


> they wont take this site down...they wont do anything. just ignore the biatch, she just wants attention.


your right, and i shouldnt even be entertaining this person by replying. but only reason i visit this thread is to learn and share the small amount of knowledge I have with electricity. then this guy wants to come in and bash and harrass the people who are helping. thats why i reported them the first time. i reported them after they setup their second account cause I figured the mod's would not like someone flaunting that they can just create a new account if they were banned. i bet they have already been banned again. hope they stop trying soon.


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## renyman (May 29, 2010)

I got a question... The main breaker on my panel reads 100. Is that 100 amps at 240v or 120v? Say i was only running 1k hids on that panel, thats it, nothing else. At 9 amps apiece could i in theory run 9 or 18 of those?


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## IAm5toned (May 29, 2010)

you could run up to 19 of them... thats using 240v ballasts
using 120v ballasts, youll only get a total of 9


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## love2gro (May 29, 2010)

I am putting up a shed and need to run power out to it. Say i want to have 20 amps out there, can i add http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/productdetails.aspx?sku=31481&source=GoogleBase to an empty slot on the main panel in my garage, and run my wire out to receptacles in the shed?


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## zigzag6 (May 30, 2010)

Hey .. Cool thread you got here , helping other +REP FOR THAT !

My question .. I have a wallunit with the light in the back of it .. do you think its like a small hps says MAX 20 Watts on the fixture


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## thisismynewxbox (May 30, 2010)

I was just wondering, does the electric company have "smart meters" and if im just running lets say 60 watts on a 12/12 schedule will i get someone knocking on my door? Im thinking of just running an empty box and putting the lights on a 12/12 just to see if it draws attention...


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## BigBudBalls (May 30, 2010)

thisismynewxbox said:


> I was just wondering, does the electric company have "smart meters" and if im just running lets say 60 watts on a 12/12 schedule will i get someone knocking on my door? Im thinking of just running an empty box and putting the lights on a 12/12 just to see if it draws attention...


60 watts? You mean 600? Either way its not enough to show anything. Add another person to the place and the elec usage would go up more then that.

As for the smart meter, go look at it. If its digital then probably yes. Also does anyone come out once a month or two to read it? then no. I do believe that the smart meters do need a 'walk up' once or twice a year to verify it. (could be wrong on that)


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## sow217 (May 30, 2010)

this may be a stupid question but i was wondering if anyone could help me out. In my room there is a plug for the dryer which is bigger than a standard outlet so im assuming its for 240volts instead of a 120volt like a normal outlet. I have 1600 watts of light i need to run and also 2 fans that pull about 640 cfm a piece. There are multiple outlets in the room a long with the larger one but i dont know if the normal sized ones will be able to support all of my equipment without blowing the circuit. If i plug my lights, ballast, fans, into a power strip, how can i convert this to plug into the big 240volt dryer outlet. Ive heard that if i could plugg all my equipment into the dryer outlet when im not using the dryer that it could successfully support all my equipment. To make a long story short ( sorry for rambling ) can anyone help me on how to plug all this stuff in or convert it to work with this dryer outlet. Is the some chord or something i can buy to convert from a 120volt to 240volt? I would like to be safe and not take the chance of plugging things into the 2 other outlets in the room and them not being able to support everything. thanks


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## BigBudBalls (May 31, 2010)

The 240 is just two 120 lines 180 degrees out of phase. So one of them to neutral will give 120 and the other 120 to neutral will give 120 also. I've never memorized which 'slots' on a plug are which (and seen TOO MANY wired wrong anyways, that I always check with a meter to verify which is which)
You can convert the 240 to two 120 outlets to run your stuff, but its going to need the neutral. Does this outlet have 3 or 4 slots in it? If 3 then most likely its just the two 120's and a ground. (technically you *can* use the ground as the neutral, but I doubt the NEC codes allows for that)

Now if your lights can use the 240 your all set. Run the lights on the 240 outlet and the ancillary equipment on the regular 120 outlets.



sow217 said:


> this may be a stupid question but i was wondering if anyone could help me out. In my room there is a plug for the dryer which is bigger than a standard outlet so im assuming its for 240volts instead of a 120volt like a normal outlet. I have 1600 watts of light i need to run and also 2 fans that pull about 640 cfm a piece. There are multiple outlets in the room a long with the larger one but i dont know if the normal sized ones will be able to support all of my equipment without blowing the circuit. If i plug my lights, ballast, fans, into a power strip, how can i convert this to plug into the big 240volt dryer outlet. Ive heard that if i could plugg all my equipment into the dryer outlet when im not using the dryer that it could successfully support all my equipment. To make a long story short ( sorry for rambling ) can anyone help me on how to plug all this stuff in or convert it to work with this dryer outlet. Is the some chord or something i can buy to convert from a 120volt to 240volt? I would like to be safe and not take the chance of plugging things into the 2 other outlets in the room and them not being able to support everything. thanks


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## $piceMÂ£rchant (May 31, 2010)

Hi, i just bought a 1000w ballast, i need to wire it to my cooltube, the ballast just comes with a 16 amp eic cable coming out with a blug like this attatched, the cable coming out of the cooltube is eic but not 16 amp so the cable connectors dont match. would i be fine buying a 16 amp eic cable such as this one http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110412642306&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
then cutting the wire just before the male part on it and attatching it to the bulb holder in the cooltube?
thanks


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## $piceMÂ£rchant (May 31, 2010)

* plug like this attached http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Schurter-C19-16-Amp-IEC-Plug-connector-monoblocks-/220296858449?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item334ab74b51


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## pmp13drc13 (May 31, 2010)

is it possible to straight wire a 150w hps light? I have a small ballast that I build for fluro's would it be possible to use that. I would rather straight wire it though,.


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## wonderblunder (May 31, 2010)

love2gro said:


> I am putting up a shed and need to run power out to it. Say i want to have 20 amps out there, can i add http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/productdetails.aspx?sku=31481&source=GoogleBase to an empty slot on the main panel in my garage, and run my wire out to receptacles in the shed?



Well first, you would want to check the brand of the panel and breakers in the garage. Then buy the desired size breaker, and appropriate size of wire (length and gauge), then run your wire, attach to the hot to the breaker, ground to the ground bus, and common to the neutral bus. Then snap your breaker into place in the panel(assuming you have the receptacles on the other end wired) 20amps aint much at 110, I wouldn't put 2kw of HPS on that, I generally run everything at a 50-75% of load capacity to be safe, and maintain room for expansion


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## wonderblunder (May 31, 2010)

whiteflour said:


> No lower voltage is more dangerous than higher voltage. High voltage has tendancy to knock you away from it, lower voltage likes to hold on. Not only that there are more amps in the same load at lower voltage.
> 
> Regardless to what you think fresh water is not very conductive at all. You have to add salts or acids for conductivity. I've seen server rooms get flooded by a river and the computers just kept on chugging.
> 
> Next please!


I disagree, if you hook onto 480, it may all be over, and if someone tries to pull you off, its probably over for them too..............


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## whiteflour (May 31, 2010)

Correct, and there's certainly a lot of variables. But to hook onto it you have to assume you've come into contact in some manner as to allow muscle contraction ie grabbing it, wrapping your arm around it, etc. The same can and does occur at low voltages.

Most electrocutions don't happen in this manner. They result from accidental contact or brushing. In which case you'd most often be knocked away at higher voltages, leading to severe burns and secondary injury from falls. Considering this scenario (which is the most common by the way), low voltage contact to the chest or back has a higher chance of being fatal than a high voltage source. 

Electric fences don't operate at high voltages for no reason. The only difference is their designed to stop providing the current upon contact. If they operated at lower voltages we'd have substantially higher priced hamburgers.


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## quickrip (May 31, 2010)

so I have a question regarding 220v curcits. If you have an item that will run with 20 amps and your 220v curcit has two 15 amp breakers do you have enough to run the item or do you need two 20 amp breakers to get what is required.+rep in advance for the help.


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## whiteflour (May 31, 2010)

No it's a double pole 15A breaker, meaning it can be pinned together for 15A 220v circuit, or used for two independent 15A 110v circuits. You have to disconnect both legs at the same time on 220v.

EDIT
Your breaker should say 20A. But .... if your load is 20 running amps (not rated for 20A) you should be running it on a 30A circuit. You're only supposed to use 85% of a circuits capacity. Either way you need a beefier circuit.


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## sow217 (May 31, 2010)

this is a picture of a 240volt dryer outlet like i have. My 1000 watt hps ballast and light comes with a standard 3 prong chord for a regular 120volt outlet, but my 1000 watt ballast has a switch that i can flip to adjust it to run on 240volts like you said. But how can I fit my regular 3 prong chord that comes with my light in an outlet that looks like this. i cant picture how this is supposed to work. Thanks again.


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## Polecat (May 31, 2010)

sow217 said:


> this is a picture of a 240volt dryer outlet like i have. My 1000 watt hps ballast and light comes with a standard 3 prong chord for a regular 120volt outlet, but my 1000 watt ballast has a switch that i can flip to adjust it to run on 240volts like you said. But how can I fit my regular 3 prong chord that comes with my light in an outlet that looks like this. i cant picture how this is supposed to work. Thanks again. View attachment 968115


The plug on your light has to be replaced with a 3 wire dryer plug. Or better yet replace both the plug and rec. to a standard 240 volt, 20 amp, 3 wire plug. Or get a 4" square box and cover cut off the plug and rec. and hard wire (wirenut) it in the box. or put a 20 amp 240volt switch in the box with a raised cover switch plate


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## BigBudBalls (May 31, 2010)

pmp13drc13 said:


> is it possible to straight wire a 150w hps light? I have a small ballast that I build for fluro's would it be possible to use that. I would rather straight wire it though,.


 No. You need a 150watt HPS ballast, cap and igniter.


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## BigBudBalls (May 31, 2010)

wonderblunder said:


> I disagree, if you hook onto 480, it may all be over, and if someone tries to pull you off, its probably over for them too..............



I've heard its the volts that kill ya, and that its the amps. Well there's 3 main aspects and all have to be right.

Take a car battery. has the potential for about 600+ amps, but I can grab the terminals and nothing.

Then there is a static electricity shock. A nice good one is about 50,000 volts.

Still alive.

Your body's resistance comes into play.

To say its just one aspect is just silly.

(This is not at you, but at this sub thread)


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## lono (Jun 1, 2010)

I realize that you have probably answered this ? b4 but i skimmed through and caught nothing. My 1000 watt ballast is only running at about half strength i dont know what happened but ne ways I bought 6 400 watt multi tap shop ballasts that are wired for 277 how do i get them to 120's please and thanks guys


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## maxed (Jun 1, 2010)

Hey I have a few electrical questions, mainly does my apt have enough amps to run a CAN filter 125 with 8" vortex fan and my two 1000w hps lights and other random accessories. does this setup seem to work? here's a link to my earlier forum post about what I'm planning on exactly doing with pictures of my breaker box.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/335917-new-grow-room-setup-some.html


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## IAm5toned (Jun 1, 2010)

quickrip said:


> so I have a question regarding 220v curcits. If you have an item that will run with 20 amps and your 220v curcit has two 15 amp breakers do you have enough to run the item or do you need two 20 amp breakers to get what is required.+rep in advance for the help.


what you need is a 2 pole 20 amp breaker. however, simply switching the breaker out wont be enough.
_*THAT IS WHAT CAUSES ELECTRICAL FIRES.*_
YOU NEED TO BE SURE THE WIRE SIZE IS CORRECT FOR A 20 AMP LOAD
a 15 amp circuit would normally be fed with #14awg wire.*
a 20 amp circuit would normally be fed with #12 awg wire.
the #12 is bigger, because 20 amps is more power than 15 amps.

*putiing a 20 amp breaker on #14 will cause the wire to overheat and burn.

remember that when sizing electrical loads, always use wattage instead of amperage...

*common continuous duty grow operation wattages based on voltage, with breaker and wire sizes. all wire sizes are based on thwn-2/thhn Cu conductors with a max run of 300'
breaker size----volts------ max wattage allowed ----smallest wire size allowed 
* 

15 amp breaker @ 120v = 1440w(12 amps actual) max = #14 awg Cu wire, min
 20 amp breaker @ 120v = 1920w(16 amps actual) max = #12 awg Cu wire, min
 30 amp breaker @ 120v = 2880w(24 amps actual) max = #10 awg Cu wire, min
 40 amp breaker @ 120v = 3840w(32 amps actual) max = #8 awg Cu wire, min
 60 amp breaker @ 120v = 5760w(48 amps actual) max = #6 awg Cu wire, min
 100 amp breaker @ 120v = 9600w(80 amps actual) max = #3 awg Cu wire, min


_15 amp breaker @ 240v = 2880w(12 amps actual) max = #14 awg Cu wire, min_
_ 20 amp breaker @ 240v = 3840w(16 amps actual) max = #12 awg Cu wire, min_
 30 amp breaker @ 240v = 5760w(24 amps actual) max = #10 awg Cu wire, min
 40 amp breaker @ 240v = 7680w(32 amps actual) max = #8 awg Cu wire, min
 60 amp breaker @ 240v = 11520w(48 amps actual) max = #6 awg Cu wire, min
100 amp breaker @ 240v= 19200w(80 amps actual) max = #3 awg Cu wire, min


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## IAm5toned (Jun 1, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> I've heard its the volts that kill ya, and that its the amps. Well there's 3 main aspects and all have to be right.
> 
> Take a car battery. has the potential for about 600+ amps, but I can grab the terminals and nothing.
> 
> ...


its the amps.
70 milliamps across the right ventricle will kill anyone, at any voltage. its called electrical fibrillation. this phenomenon is caused by the reversal of potential of the electrical impulses sent to the heart from the brain. 
this same lethal concept is used to save lives, when a person is having a heart attack, to 'reboot' the same impulses from the brain to the heart, by using a _defibrillator_ to to apply an opposite potential to the same nerves that would normally kill you.

the only factor resistance has as far as death or injury is directly related to the amount of heat created by the amperage passing through the energized body, (ie, you) the higher the resistance of the path to opposite potential (short circuit) the more heat is generated by the current flow, at a rate directly proportionate to the amperage of the current. i say this because if you become energized, the initial inrush will kill you quicker than a shot to the head, if the current path is travelling through certain areas of the body. although these occurrences are rare, they happen on an all to regular basis.

if voltage played any other factor than the force that creates opposite potential, than people would be dropping dead from static shocks left and right... and no one would be hit by lightning and live to tell about it.

but anyway you put it, getting zapped is just a shitty thing... no one likes it.


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## IAm5toned (Jun 1, 2010)

maxed said:


> Hey I have a few electrical questions, mainly does my apt have enough amps to run a CAN filter 125 with 8" vortex fan and my two 1000w hps lights and other random accessories. does this setup seem to work? here's a link to my earlier forum post about what I'm planning on exactly doing with pictures of my breaker box.
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/335917-new-grow-room-setup-some.html


i lurked your thread and the answer is no, you do not have enough power available to run that equipment on any single breaker in this panel:






i would suggest running a 30 amp circuit on #10awg from the spare slot in the panel for your grows.
i have included a chart of max watts vs. breaker and wire size:

*common continuous duty grow operation wattages based on voltage, with breaker and wire sizes. all wire sizes are based on thwn-2/thhn Cu conductors with a max run of 300'*
* breaker size----volts------ max wattage allowed ----smallest wire size allowed *


15 amp breaker @ 120v = 1440w(12 amps actual) max = #14 awg Cu wire, min
 20 amp breaker @ 120v = 1920w(16 amps actual) max = #12 awg Cu wire, min
 _30 amp breaker @ 120v = 2880w(24 amps actual) max = #10 awg Cu wire, min_
 40 amp breaker @ 120v = 3840w(32 amps actual) max = #8 awg Cu wire, min
 60 amp breaker @ 120v = 5760w(48 amps actual) max = #6 awg Cu wire, min
 100 amp breaker @ 120v = 9600w(80 amps actual) max = #3 awg Cu wire, min


_15 amp breaker @ 240v = 2880w(12 amps actual) max = #14 awg Cu wire, min_
 20 amp breaker @ 240v = 3840w(16 amps actual) max = #12 awg Cu wire, min
 30 amp breaker @ 240v = 5760w(24 amps actual) max = #10 awg Cu wire, min
 40 amp breaker @ 240v = 7680w(32 amps actual) max = #8 awg Cu wire, min
 60 amp breaker @ 240v = 11520w(48 amps actual) max = #6 awg Cu wire, min
100 amp breaker @ 240v= 19200w(80 amps actual) max = #3 awg Cu wire, min


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 1, 2010)

Yep a defibrillator on a 'working' person can stop the heart instead of start them. All the (mandated) defibs in places now are smart and will sense is the victim needs a jump start or not (most of the time. I bet an grossly obese person will almost always look 'dead')

Still its all items involved and path of least resistance which maybe be along your sweaty skin or straight through your body. Kinda luck of the draw.

If resistance has no real place, how come grabbing the terminals of a big ass car battery I feel nothing? Thats 600+ amps. Of course AC does some real funky things. 




IAm5toned said:


> its the amps.
> 70 milliamps across the right ventricle will kill anyone, at any voltage. its called electrical fibrillation. this phenomenon is caused by the reversal of potential of the electrical impulses sent to the heart from the brain.
> this same lethal concept is used to save lives, when a person is having a heart attack, to 'reboot' the same impulses from the brain to the heart, by using a _defibrillator_ to to apply an opposite potential to the same nerves that would normally kill you.
> 
> ...


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 1, 2010)

You should see a legend on how to wire it. Move the wire from the old 'house wiring' to the 120 tap and *should* be good.



lono said:


> I realize that you have probably answered this ? b4 but i skimmed through and caught nothing. My 1000 watt ballast is only running at about half strength i dont know what happened but ne ways I bought 6 400 watt multi tap shop ballasts that are wired for 277 how do i get them to 120's please and thanks guys


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## IAm5toned (Jun 1, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Yep a defibrillator on a 'working' person can stop the heart instead of start them. All the (mandated) defibs in places now are smart and will sense is the victim needs a jump start or not (most of the time. I bet an grossly obese person will almost always look 'dead')
> 
> Still its all items involved and path of least resistance which maybe be along your sweaty skin or straight through your body. Kinda luck of the draw.
> 
> If resistance has no real place, how come grabbing the terminals of a big ass car battery I feel nothing? Thats 600+ amps. Of course AC does some real funky things.




good point


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## $piceMÂ£rchant (Jun 1, 2010)

Hi, i just bought a 1000w ballast, i need to wire it to my cooltube, the ballast just comes with a 16 amp eic cable coming out with a plug like this attached http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Schurter-C19-1...item334ab74b51 , the cable coming out of the cooltube is eic but not 16 amp so the cable connectors dont match. would i be fine buying a 16 amp eic cable such as this one http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
then cutting the wire just before the male part on it and attatching it to the bulb holder in the cooltube?
thanks


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## maxed (Jun 1, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> i lurked your thread and the answer is no, you do not have enough power available to run that equipment on any single breaker in this panel:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## whiteflour (Jun 1, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Yep a defibrillator on a 'working' person can stop the heart instead of start them. All the (mandated) defibs in places now are smart and will sense is the victim needs a jump start or not (most of the time. I bet an grossly obese person will almost always look 'dead')
> 
> Still its all items involved and path of least resistance which maybe be along your sweaty skin or straight through your body. Kinda luck of the draw.
> 
> If resistance has no real place, how come grabbing the terminals of a big ass car battery I feel nothing? Thats 600+ amps. Of course AC does some real funky things.


Resistance definitely plays a part. That's another reason for high voltage in electric fences. Cow hide is a bit thicker than human skin and needs higher voltage to overcome. As for defibs it was the opposite. The earliest versions were only about 200v but that proved harder to stabilize and direct the amperage where needed. Both devices have a very fine range of being either ineffictively useless and effectively dangerous.

Household voltages are in a rather dangerous range period, but it is true though 110/220 lead to more deaths than any other voltage, and that higher voltages lead more serious injuries. It's a statistical fact. But one could also reasonably argue that's because we don't have as many idiots messing with high voltage, high current lines.


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 2, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> good point


And as long as I keep my hat on, no one will notice


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## IAm5toned (Jun 2, 2010)

maxed said:


> IAm5toned said:
> 
> 
> > i lurked your thread and the answer is no, you do not have enough power available to run that equipment on any single breaker in this panel:
> ...


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## tunaboat (Jun 3, 2010)

I want to run a relay for my lights. Will this work, im pretty confident I can wire it correctly, I just wanted to make sure.
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Relays_-z-_Timers/15A_Electro-Mechanical_Cube_Relays/781-1C-120A
Im running ~300w of cfls.


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 4, 2010)

tunaboat said:


> I want to run a relay for my lights. Will this work, im pretty confident I can wire it correctly, I just wanted to make sure.
> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Relays_-z-_Timers/15A_Electro-Mechanical_Cube_Relays/781-1C-120A
> Im running ~300w of cfls.


Yup will work. Though I, personally, would use a 2 pole relay. But thats me.
You may also want to get the socket for it too. Does make wiring it up easier.
(I like AutomationDirect. Good stuff at great prices, mostly)

But my Q is why the relay?


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## IAm5toned (Jun 4, 2010)

tunaboat said:


> I want to run a relay for my lights. Will this work, im pretty confident I can wire it correctly, I just wanted to make sure.
> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Relays_-z-_Timers/15A_Electro-Mechanical_Cube_Relays/781-1C-120A
> Im running ~300w of cfls.


dont forget the relay base


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## track (Jun 7, 2010)

Sorry for this random subject, im looking for an easy DIY link to build a 220v to 110v distribution panel. 

I would like to use the 220v (dryer) socket in my bathroom that is currently not being used. All my equipment however is north american 110v. Can I safely build a distribution panel that will support my cabinet (1000w + fans) 

If I can purchase everything for under 200$ that would be cool. A diagram to help me wire everything would be great


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## Smokej9009 (Jun 8, 2010)

track said:


> Sorry for this random subject, im looking for an easy DIY link to build a 220v to 110v distribution panel.
> 
> I would like to use the 220v (dryer) socket in my bathroom that is currently not being used. All my equipment however is north american 110v. Can I safely build a distribution panel that will support my cabinet (1000w + fans)
> 
> If I can purchase everything for under 200$ that would be cool. A diagram to help me wire everything would be great


Here is my question, what kind of timer is that? I need a good 220 or 240 volt timer to run two 600w HPS in the subpanel I want to build. I am getting parts now........


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## tunaboat (Jun 8, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> But my Q is why the relay?


I thought with all those CFL's i might fry my timer.


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## track (Jun 8, 2010)

Smokej9009 said:


> Here is my question, what kind of timer is that? I need a good 220 or 240 volt timer to run two 600w HPS in the subpanel I want to build. I am getting parts now........


these are outdoor mechanical timers often used for swimming pools, they go for about $45 at Home Depot, Lowes, etc.. 
they have digital ones too!


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## purplehazin (Jun 8, 2010)

Question: Im growing in a closet with no outlets. I had planned on running an extension cord from my room to the closet (high grade orange kind) and have that plug into an 8 outlet 15A surge protector. Can I hook up a 400w digital ballast, a 400CFM fan, some CFL's, some fans, etc safely? I have looked at all the equipment and it runs WELL below 15A, like only 8A or something. Will this work until I can find a better solution? The wife won't let me grow anywhere else in the house (including basement?) so I have to find a way to make this work. 

Peace


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## gumball (Jun 8, 2010)

I think you'll be ok purplehazin. Just make sure that the circuit in the bedroom which your extension could plugs into doesn't have any other outlets on it with high load items.


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## purplehazin (Jun 8, 2010)

Thanks man, appreciate it. Puts my mind at ease a bit


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## gumball (Jun 8, 2010)

No problem, glad I can help


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 8, 2010)

purplehazin said:


> Question: Im growing in a closet with no outlets. I had planned on running an extension cord from my room to the closet (high grade orange kind) and have that plug into an 8 outlet 15A surge protector. Can I hook up a 400w digital ballast, a 400CFM fan, some CFL's, some fans, etc safely? I have looked at all the equipment and it runs WELL below 15A, like only 8A or something. Will this work until I can find a better solution? The wife won't let me grow anywhere else in the house (including basement?) so I have to find a way to make this work.
> 
> Peace


Orange means nothing. The final OD means nothing of the extension cords. Its all in the gauge of the wire in the cord. (granted a higher temp insulation can make up for lack of gauge, but NEC will probably frown on it, even though its valid)

Get a cord rated for 15A, even though you are only running 8A. Lengths play a part in these things with voltage drop.

Have fun with the closet grows. Heat is a major issue. Get that all proven out before starting to grow.


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## purplehazin (Jun 8, 2010)

Thanks BBB, I built my own cooltube and have a 400cfm fan for a 3x2x5 closet, so heat isnt a big problem. Thanks for the cord tip, I'll see if I can find an amperage rating on the cord I have. If not I'll stop by home depot and pick up a short 15A cord. Thanks again


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## IMO (Jun 8, 2010)

if im setting up a room in my house, running 2 600w lights, fans, hydro bullshit, and a/c, what would be the best way to power it all? currently i know diddly squat about anything electrical, but im hoping this will be the start of my learning process. anyhow, if yall wouldnt mind givin me some pointers, or pointin me in a direction, any direction really, i'd be much obliged.

love, peace, and taco grease,
-imo


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## jumboSWISHER (Jun 9, 2010)

heyy everybody.
so i was just in the grow room, and i found out the hard way that if im barefoot, and stick my hand into the res of my hydro setup i get a pretty good jolt... not real bad, but a good, shocking jolt lol
and my first thought is this cant be good for my plants? and cant be safe haha
well after tinkering around i found it be my ballast. when i unplug it theres no jolt. its near my res, but no wires touching or anything?
could it just be the cement floor or something? i have no electrical experience what so ever. and ill have pics ina few. 
thanks a ton for any thoughts


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## Smokej9009 (Jun 9, 2010)

jumboSWISHER said:


> heyy everybody.
> so i was just in the grow room, and i found out the hard way that if im barefoot, and stick my hand into the res of my hydro setup i get a pretty good jolt... not real bad, but a good, shocking jolt lol
> and my first thought is this cant be good for my plants? and cant be safe haha
> well after tinkering around i found it be my ballast. when i unplug it theres no jolt. its near my res, but no wires touching or anything?
> ...


Sounds like you need a pond liner for the floor, and there must be a short inside the ballast? More enlightened minds will prevail.
Are both plugged into the same outlet?


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## jumboSWISHER (Jun 9, 2010)

i feel really dumb... they were plugged into the same outlet 
its all good now haha


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## Smokej9009 (Jun 9, 2010)

jumboSWISHER said:


> i feel really dumb... they were plugged into the same outlet
> its all good now haha


There is still something wrong there. Don't assume it's all good. You must have a damaged wire or loose connection somewhere. Unplug the ballast and look inside, then trip the breaker for that outlet and look for damaged wires or loose connections behind the receptacle. 
These are the little things that can kill you or burn your house down. Believe me, you don't want to put the power from a ballast through your arm. 
I'm sure a more experienced electrician will chime in, but I would start with those two things first. 
Your using a grounded outlet right? 
Remember this tidbit!!!
If you EVER touch anything electrical, alway touch it with the back of your hand first. This will prevent and current travelling through it's case from making you involuntarily clamp your hand onto whatever is shocking you. If you touch it with the back of your hand first, your reflex reaction will not let you grab onto it and hold on. 
Don't ever grab your ballast with your grip UNTIL you have placed the back of your hand on it first to verify it is not gonna zap you. 
This simple tidbit actually in all reality probably saved my life one day many years ago on a power cable that supplied a massive motor.


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## jumboSWISHER (Jun 9, 2010)

i had my dad take a look at things =] i didnt just assume its all good lol 
and yes im using a grounded outlet, i had the ballast plugged in, and a cheap 6 way plug with the pump and air stone plugged in. we moved the 6 way and it stopped, my dad tripped the breaker and checked it all out, he says its A ok. i trust his judgment as he has electician experience, and has given me the same advice of touching it with the back of your had first lol , saved my life, or atleast a shitty week at the hospital. thanks alot tho man! =]


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## IAm5toned (Jun 10, 2010)

Smokej9009 said:


> Sounds like you need a pond liner for the floor, and there must be a short inside the ballast? More enlightened minds will prevail.
> Are both plugged into the same outlet?


 you fail for suggesting a pond liner... that could get him killed.


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## IAm5toned (Jun 10, 2010)

jumboSWISHER said:


> i had my dad take a look at things =] i didnt just assume its all good lol
> and yes im using a grounded outlet, i had the ballast plugged in, and a cheap 6 way plug with the pump and air stone plugged in. we moved the 6 way and it stopped, my dad tripped the breaker and checked it all out, he says its A ok. i trust his judgment as he has electician experience, and has given me the same advice of touching it with the back of your had first lol , saved my life, or atleast a shitty week at the hospital. thanks alot tho man! =]


what that was is either a) ungrounded ballast core. or b) you have a neutral and a ground tied together or touching somewhere.
there is also a third possibility-
c) ungrounded mag drive pumps will also induct voltage into water. though normally safe, if you are a better ground than the neutral (highly likely if your standing barefoot on a wet tile floor) there is a chance you could get bit if you come into contact with the fluid the pump is circulating. this is a phenomena i first noticed years ago playing around with aquariums. some electricians use what is known as a hotstick, or more properly, a _non contact voltage indicator_. this handy pen sized contraption lights up bright red when it gets close to voltage greater than 24vac, i used to have a habit of clipping it onto the string for my hood on a sweatshirt, and one day i was leaning close to my aquarium and the hotstick lit up, i was like wtf? it drove me nuts till i figured out what was going on.

FYI- any receptacle within six foot of _any water source, water resevoir, sink, faucet, drain, or any source of moving water_ SHALL be a GFCI type receptacle.

its the law for a reason. it takes only 1 milliamp to kill you... a gfci trips @ .015 ma of fault current.
consider yourself lucky when you got bit the current didnt travel across your chest and cause a defibrillation, killing you instantly. your lucky your arms were not over your head when it happened... you dont know how close you just came.
im not trying to be a downer, bu ti think you should be made aware of it 

peace


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## Mr.Greenery850 (Jun 10, 2010)

Amazing thread brick!! Im sure ill have sum questions for ya man.
PeAcE


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## jtru007 (Jun 11, 2010)

what can we do about the new smart meters? anyway around it? hack?


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 11, 2010)

jtru007 said:


> what can we do about the new smart meters? anyway around it? hack?


Ignore them. Unless you think a 600W HPS can be seen as a 600W HPS grow light with White Widow below it. It just gathers usage over time and more importantly to the elec co, can read them from far away saving the labor of sending a guy to every house every month. Balance your load over the 24 hour period.
Smoke a bowl, relax and stop being paranoid.


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## budboyste (Jun 11, 2010)

heellllooo,ok what size amp do i need to safely plug in 45W Daylight CFL's???? i have 2 plugged in and working on a 3A plug in an extension lead,but ive tried to plug more in and i think ive blew all the other fuses,HHEELLLLPPP please


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## mmd604 (Jun 11, 2010)

jtru007 said:


> what can we do about the new smart meters? anyway around it? hack?


for peace of mind buy a digital ballast then you will have no inductance and a smaller surge. hack smart meters is gonna the way of the future(when there is a will there is a way). Info is actually sent down the power lines not a data port. Its some heavy shit


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 11, 2010)

budboyste said:


> heellllooo,ok what size amp do i need to safely plug in 45W Daylight CFL's???? i have 2 plugged in and working on a 3A plug in an extension lead,but ive tried to plug more in and i think ive blew all the other fuses,HHEELLLLPPP please


ohms law. its all over this thread


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## legalizeitcanada (Jun 11, 2010)

Hey, i do have a question, I saw a little cooler ac unit, it runs offa 12v from the car lighter, what would I have to do to get it to plug into a regular socket 120v? Thanks Dude


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 12, 2010)

legalizeitcanada said:


> Hey, i do have a question, I saw a little cooler ac unit, it runs offa 12v from the car lighter, what would I have to do to get it to plug into a regular socket 120v? Thanks Dude


What do you plan on it doing? its not going to cool a cardboard box grow room let alone a closet. Even as its intended use, it really doesn't cool items in it, but will maintain the temp And thats what 1 cubic foot max? Then you need to worry about cooling the hot side (it gets hotter then the cold side gets cold)

But to answer your Q, you will need a 12VDC power supply with enough amperage (plus an extra 10-15%) to run the cooler.

Overall, don't bother. Not going to get the results you are looking for.


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## legalizeitcanada (Jun 12, 2010)

K... thanks for the reply man, i'll think of somethin else!


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## legalizeitcanada (Jun 13, 2010)

So i have another already. so i have found a 100 watt hps bulb, some of them say mogul base and other say medium or standard household base, my question is can the household one be plugged into a regular socket or do you still need that balast for em? Some people are saying yes it just plugs in, some are saying I need a ballast to convert the power, 

so.....do they just run on 120v or do I need a ballast, I don't wanna have a fire hazard lol

http://www.1000bulbs.com/100-Watt-Me...e-Light-Bulbs/ 
here is the page I was lookin at

thanks for lettin me pick your brain!


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## harper2002 (Jun 13, 2010)

Hi, I am planning on doing a loft grow but the only wiring I can tap into is the wiring for the lighting in the house.... is this ok to run a 400 or 600 Watt bulb +fans and pumps? Other thing is I will only have one socket so would be using a four way extension, Am I gonna burn the place down or blow myself up?


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## IAm5toned (Jun 13, 2010)

more realistaclly you will simply kick the breaker because the circuit was overloaded. there's really not enough info in your question to give you an accurate answer. the 2 deciding factors that determine whether or not you can run a safe operation is this:
the size of the wire (guage) of the circuit you wish to tap into
the size of the breaker (amperage) that protects that same circuit.

if you can find that info, im sure some of us can give you a more accurate answer.


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## purplehazin (Jun 13, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Orange means nothing. The final OD means nothing of the extension cords. Its all in the gauge of the wire in the cord. (granted a higher temp insulation can make up for lack of gauge, but NEC will probably frown on it, even though its valid)
> 
> Get a cord rated for 15A, even though you are only running 8A. Lengths play a part in these things with voltage drop.
> 
> Have fun with the closet grows. Heat is a major issue. Get that all proven out before starting to grow.


Alright, picked up a 25' Ridgid Cord; 15A rating with 12AWG wire. Hopefully this is safe enough. Thanks man.


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## buster7467 (Jun 13, 2010)

Hi guys. I have a question for you. I have two 250w hps lights. I want to run one ballast with a flip flop relay so i can set up 2 seperate rooms and just have one ballast running 24/7. Could you point me in the right direction with some links to some info or a parts list that i can get locally? I only plan on using it on the 250w hps lights so i am hoping i can build one on the cheap. I have seen a couple flip flops relays on websites and the price is too high. If you can give me any info that would be great. Thanks.


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## whiteflour (Jun 13, 2010)

The concept is fairly simple you want an NO and NC relay that switches an outlet/plug set, each relay countering the others action. But if you search for "flip flop ballast" on google you'll find a few guides already available.


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## buster7467 (Jun 13, 2010)

Thanks for the info. I will google it and do some reading on the subject. Thanks.


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 13, 2010)

legalizeitcanada said:


> So i have another already. so i have found a 100 watt hps bulb, some of them say mogul base and other say medium or standard household base, my question is can the household one be plugged into a regular socket or do you still need that balast for em? Some people are saying yes it just plugs in, some are saying I need a ballast to convert the power,
> 
> so.....do they just run on 120v or do I need a ballast, I don't wanna have a fire hazard lol
> 
> ...


No, you need a ballast also (with a cap and iginter)


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 13, 2010)

whiteflour said:


> The concept is fairly simple you want an NO and NC relay that switches an outlet/plug set, each relay countering the others action. But if you search for "flip flop ballast" on google you'll find a few guides already available.


Just gotta watch that ignition spike HPS has. It will wear the contacts. Better off with 2 relays. One for the bulb and another for the ballast. Turn the ballast off, swap the bulbs, turn ballast back on.


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## buster7467 (Jun 13, 2010)

I just got done doing some reading and i have came to the conclusion that if i would need to set it up like bigbudballs stated, i will just use my other ballast. If you need to shut the ballast down to safely get the relay to switch properly and then start the ballast back up it would be the same as just using two ballast with there own timer. Thanks guys.


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 14, 2010)

buster7467 said:


> I just got done doing some reading and i have came to the conclusion that if i would need to set it up like bigbudballs stated, i will just use my other ballast. If you need to shut the ballast down to safely get the relay to switch properly and then start the ballast back up it would be the same as just using two ballast with there own timer. Thanks guys.


Could use a digital timer to just turn off the ballast for one minute to spare the second relay. (just use a properly rated timer for *inductive* loads. Inductive loads are derated from resistive loads)

Could get fancy and use a stepping relay and each time the ballast gets turned off it triggers the stepping relay.


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## guycaballero (Jun 15, 2010)

I have aquired a free 1000w light used in an outdoor industrial type of seting. It is apparently set up to run 347V, (that is what is labeled on the black wire running from the ballast to the power supply)is there anything i can do to change it over? or wire my house for it? or just scavenge some parts of it and buy another 1000w ballast?
thanks


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## harper2002 (Jun 15, 2010)

Hi, I am planning on doing a loft grow but the only wiring I can tap into is the wiring for the lighting in the house.... is this ok to run a 400 or 600 Watt bulb +fans and pumps? Other thing is I will only have one socket so would be using a four way extension, Am I gonna burn the place down or blow myself up?

The fuse box says it has a 5 amp fuse and the wire from mains to extension is a THICK Grey wire (hard to bend due to solid copper earth I think) 

Please note this is info from a question I asked a few days agow but just got round to getting the info put on.


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## whiteflour (Jun 15, 2010)

5A seems kind of puny, but whats the voltage? A 600w alone at 110v is already too much, and probably borderline pushing it at 220.


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## harper2002 (Jun 15, 2010)

230v i believe we run. its the light wiring for the house im tapping into.


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## IAm5toned (Jun 15, 2010)

harper2002 said:


> Hi, I am planning on doing a loft grow but the only wiring I can tap into is the wiring for the lighting in the house.... is this ok to run a 400 or 600 Watt bulb +fans and pumps? Other thing is I will only have one socket so would be using a four way extension, Am I gonna burn the place down or blow myself up?
> 
> The fuse box says it has a 5 amp fuse and the wire from mains to extension is a THICK Grey wire (hard to bend due to solid copper earth I think)
> 
> Please note this is info from a question I asked a few days agow but just got round to getting the info put on.



you sure its not a 15 amp fuse, that the '1' is just worn off from age, or covered in dust/grime?


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## Common0ne (Jun 15, 2010)

*THE SECOND PARAGRAPH IS ABOUT THE ELECTRICAL BUT IF YOU CAN PLEASE ALSO GIVE ME ANY OPINIONS ABOUT MY FIRST PARAGRAPH OR ANY CHANGES I SHOULD MAKE WHICH IS ABOUT MY GROW ROOM OVERALL*
I just wanted to keep everything in 1 place. Really sorry if it causes any inconvenience as I do understand that this thread is solely about Electrical. 

Alright so I have been doing quite a bit of research of how to build my grow room (probably about 1 months worth and mind that I have had no previous knowledge of any of this type of work lol) and this is what I got so far.. 

I will be going with a EBB flow hydroponic system. The dimensions of the table is a 4x8 the reservoir is 100gallons, pump is rated at 1056 GPH, 38L/M air pump, will be going with 4"x4" rockwool cubes (will try to find 6"x6" at other local stores) and I will be going with a SOG grow. Each plant will get 1 sq/foot of space therefore 4x8 = 32 sq/foot so that is enough room for 32 plants. Obviously I cant just make the room 4x8 because getting in would be impossible so I will make the room a 5x9x8 instead so I can have some room to work with (inspecting plants and etc.) A room of that size would equal 360CFM sooo.. If I wanted to exhaust the room I would need 720CFM exhaust fan bare minimum and a carbon filter that is 133% of the exhaust fan so 1.33x720=957.6 so lets just round that to a 1000CFM carbon filter. For the inlet I will be using negative pressure to bring in fresh air (trying to save a little money there for now). Also since I will have 32 plants I want to make sure that each plant will get at least 50W light/each so if I had 2x 1000wHPS lights that would be 2000W/32 = 62.5W per plant which is fine. You are probably wondering if I will be air cooling these lights with a second exhaust fan and the answer is no..Well..initially I will see how everything turns out BUT I will be purchasing a 12,000BTU A/C /Dehumidifier so that should take care of any heat issues..Lastly for the grow room reflectance I will be using Mylar. 

Alright so now for electrical.. I looked into it for a bit and I THINK I understand what I would have to do..BUT I am just making sure because I don't want to burn my building down.. Soo.. On my control panel it is a Commander 100amp (which is old as shit) but I realized that it still has 2 sockets available for additional breakers and thank god it does..I will want to purchase 2 separate 20amp breakers and install them into the control panel and then connect them with 12-3 gauge wiring all the way to the grow room. I will then install 2 outlets, each outlet will run on its own circuit so that each of them will have 20amp's of power (therefore equaling 40amp's) which is sufficient for running my grow room. There is one question I want to ask though because im already going to spend shitloads of money for this growroom so I need to go a bit cheap so I want to purchase 120V ballasts which are $150 cheaper than the 120v/240v so I would save $300 BUT I figured out that I can't run both lights on 1 20amp circuit because I have read that you can only use 80% of the breaker's total amount of amps so 0.80x20=16amp's (constant use) but since I will be using 120v ballasts I would consume 120v X 16amp's = 1920W. So if I were to use ballasts rated at 120v the 20amp circuit would only give me 1920W of power which is 80W shy of the 2000W lights so I am wondering if I can use both lights on the 1 20amp circuit using 120v or should I just put 1 1000W light on 1 20amp circuit and put the other 1000W light on the other 20 amp circuit (only reason why I am asking this is because I just want to keep everything clean..) but w/e if I have to I have to :/ Also if there is anything that sounds wrong with my grow please tell me because I want everything to be perfect before I spend 1 cent on my growing materials. 

Last question if I started to consume this much power (probably 3500W) would this raise enough suspicion to get me caught.. I live in a Condominium where all the expenses are payed for including electric/hydro and it is 29 floors so it is a pretty big building. I am just wondering though would they even be able to know or realize anything because there are just soo many people living in this Condo.. Also forgot to mention that I will be using sound dampeners for the 8" ducting to minimize the noise. 

If you guys have the chance just give me any more advice or anything I should change at all would be very much appreciated
Thank you!

Common0ne


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## slantxl (Jun 16, 2010)

Alright, I am building a room in a garage and was going to have 1400 W worth of light and run a 620 w window mounted a/c unit through the wall. I really don't want to rewire. I have a 20 Amp dedicated line in the garage already and I figured I would be able to run the 1400 w of light off this line with an extension cord to the room. (Distance from outlet to lights is less then 15') I have an adjacent spare bedroom that hardly gets used. The only electronics in this bedroom are the florescent ceiling light, dresser lamp, small 20" LCD TV, and a DVD player. If I were to drill a hole through the bedroom and into the garage and run an extension would this be okay to run the 620W A/C unit, 5 water pumps on a timer, one in line exhaust fan, and three oscillating fans? Distance from the spare bedroom outlet to my hobby room is about 20'. My main concern is if this posses a fire hazard? If anyone has any advice that would be greatly appreciated. Not planning on adding anything to this room in the future. If I am to expand I will be expanding my hobby into the extra bedroom. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## slantxl (Jun 16, 2010)

Hey Common One;

I lived in an old building that was built in the 1940's and I had the same deal as you. The electricity and water were included in my rental payment. I am sure I could of been growing a little something back then and should have taken advantage of the fact that I did not pay for electricity.

On the flip side, I worked for a general contractor and he was asked to get a bid on a large residential condo to put a system in place that would monitor each tenants electrical use so that they could bill the electrical costs back to the tenants. I doubt you have such a system in place if you are not already paying rent. If your building does get one, you will probably be notified before hand. 

They may not be able to pin point you, but 7,000 watts of usage is a pretty significant increase.


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## Longest69 (Jun 16, 2010)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


I was wondering if I could connect 4 24inc flourescent lightbulbs together for my veg. chamber? Or do you know a better light bulb so I wouldnt have to do this?


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## harper2002 (Jun 16, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> you sure its not a 15 amp fuse, that the '1' is just worn off from age, or covered in dust/grime?


 Nope I checked AGAIN and its a 5Amp.... I have ran it before with a 400 watt for 2 month but just wanted second opinion.


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## Common0ne (Jun 16, 2010)

slantxl said:


> Hey Common One;
> 
> I lived in an old building that was built in the 1940's and I had the same deal as you. The electricity and water were included in my rental payment. I am sure I could of been growing a little something back then and should have taken advantage of the fact that I did not pay for electricity.
> 
> ...


 Thank you for your response but you read my post a bit incorrectly lol.. I mean I will consume 3500W IN TOTAL, the extra shit what I said are the things that will make it 3500W.


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 16, 2010)

harper2002 said:


> Nope I checked AGAIN and its a 5Amp.... I have ran it before with a 400 watt for 2 month but just wanted second opinion.


Live in Europe?


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## jokou (Jun 16, 2010)

hey everybody, im trying to get setup and was wondering: 
Is there any benefit in buying a hps/mh dual ballast like _this one_, does it act differently than if i just plugged in a mh conversion bulb into a hps ballast of the same wattage?


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## whiteflour (Jun 16, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Live in Europe?


I believe so, since he was calling ground earth. That's why I was asking the voltage.


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## whiteflour (Jun 16, 2010)

HPS and MH have different ballast requirements. An MH conversion bulb is meant to run in an HPS ballast, where a switchable ballast like that in the link will run either MH or HPS. I don't believe a conversion bulb is quite as efficient as the real deal, but I may be wrong.


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## jokou (Jun 16, 2010)

whiteflour said:


> HPS and MH have different ballast requirements. An MH conversion bulb is meant to run in an HPS ballast, where a switchable ballast like that in the link will run either MH or HPS. I don't believe a conversion bulb is quite as efficient as the real deal, but I may be wrong.


so a dual ballast would not negate the need for a two different bases right/ or does that mean it is spliced and I could run hps and mh from the same ballast at the same time? does each bulb need its own ballast even if it is of the same type? thanks for the help =]


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## harper2002 (Jun 17, 2010)

Hi yea im in Europe can you advise if the loft setup will work please


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 17, 2010)

jokou said:


> so a dual ballast would not negate the need for a two different bases right/ or does that mean it is spliced and I could run hps and mh from the same ballast at the same time? does each bulb need its own ballast even if it is of the same type? thanks for the help =]


A dual ballast is not a switchable. Duals will run both HPS & MH at the same time. Get that full spectrum stuff going on. These are not very common, but are out there.

Switchable ballast have a switch to change from a HPS to a MH.

Digitals usually will run HPS or MH with no intervention They sense the bulb thats plugged into it)


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## Vidian (Jun 17, 2010)

OK I got one. 
We've had 2, 1000w HIDs with electronic ballasts, (just added a third and about to add our 4th) 3 medium fans, 2 small fans, a big exhaust fan, an 8 bank of T5's, for extra cooling we re-routed some of the AC into the added insulated room in the garage. Had a $600 power bill for the first month of ops, not including the 3rd HID. Expecting a little less, so we cut down on excesses like fountains with pool pumps and other stuff. We looked around for anything other than the expense of solar and the football field of panels needed to cover AMPS and found this thing called '208 wiring?'. Someone said it would cut our bill in half - the 420 friendly electrician we had originally said it would mean permits and all that kind of thing, plus replacing all the copper wire in a 10 year old house and it would cost a small fortune.

What can you tell me about it?


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 18, 2010)

Not gonna save you a dime. If the 208 is triple phase then there *might* be a bit of savings on motors, since they are only using 2 phases at a giving instance. I haven't seen triple phase balasts. Most industrial lighting in trip phase buildings, just use one leg of the trip phase.

Power is power and thats what you are paying for (not the voltage or amps, though they are the items used to calculate power, but they are equally proportional one goes down 10% the other goes up 10%). Doesn't matter how its delivered to your place.



Vidian said:


> OK I got one.
> We've had 2, 1000w HIDs with electronic ballasts, (just added a third and about to add our 4th) 3 medium fans, 2 small fans, a big exhaust fan, an 8 bank of T5's, for extra cooling we re-routed some of the AC into the added insulated room in the garage. Had a $600 power bill for the first month of ops, not including the 3rd HID. Expecting a little less, so we cut down on excesses like fountains with pool pumps and other stuff. We looked around for anything other than the expense of solar and the football field of panels needed to cover AMPS and found this thing called '208 wiring?'. Someone said it would cut our bill in half - the 420 friendly electrician we had originally said it would mean permits and all that kind of thing, plus replacing all the copper wire in a 10 year old house and it would cost a small fortune.
> 
> What can you tell me about it?


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## IAm5toned (Jun 18, 2010)

Common0ne said:


> *THE SECOND PARAGRAPH IS ABOUT THE ELECTRICAL BUT IF YOU CAN PLEASE ALSO GIVE ME ANY OPINIONS ABOUT MY FIRST PARAGRAPH OR ANY CHANGES I SHOULD MAKE WHICH IS ABOUT MY GROW ROOM OVERALL*
> I just wanted to keep everything in 1 place. Really sorry if it causes any inconvenience as I do understand that this thread is solely about Electrical.
> 
> Alright so I have been doing quite a bit of research of how to build my grow room (probably about 1 months worth and mind that I have had no previous knowledge of any of this type of work lol) and this is what I got so far..
> ...


it would take me 5 mins and a clamp on amp meter to find you......


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## mmd604 (Jun 18, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> it would take me 5 mins and a clamp on amp meter to find you......



if you live in a apartment were the hole building is metered and divided amongst the tenants then no you will not get caught. Some asians in toronto were doing this but they had 10000 watts per unit and had the hold floor going 100 1000 watters LOL. IF you wanna now what you garden is pulling then you have to use a watt meter not a amp meter(amp meter finds VA)


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## jrinlv (Jun 18, 2010)

Killer thread, thanks for all the help..

I purchased a CAP xgc-1e controller and it is awesome. It runs of a 15 amp fuse built into the unit, last night it had popped the fuse as soon as the unit came on. i have had this unit for almost 2 months and this is the first problem I have had with it. Why would it pop the fuse just this one time. I am worried about leaving it for a few days ( the whole reason I got the unit) Any insight would be good. if you need more info please let me know, Thanks JR


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## IAm5toned (Jun 18, 2010)

mmd604 said:


> if you live in a apartment were the hole building is metered and divided amongst the tenants then no you will not get caught. Some asians in toronto were doing this but they had 10000 watts per unit and had the hold floor going 100 1000 watters LOL. IF you wanna now what you garden is pulling then you have to use a watt meter not a amp meter(amp meter finds VA)


 with an ampmeter i can track the heavy usage right thru the switchgear, right thru the dist. panels, and then to the individual units.
i do this kind of thing for a living.... watt meter will be a waste of time, takes to long.
if theres a bus duct, then your really fucked, because then all i have to do is go to the tap on each floor, and paydirt.


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## IAm5toned (Jun 18, 2010)

jrinlv said:


> Killer thread, thanks for all the help..
> 
> I purchased a CAP xgc-1e controller and it is awesome. It runs of a 15 amp fuse built into the unit, last night it had popped the fuse as soon as the unit came on. i have had this unit for almost 2 months and this is the first problem I have had with it. Why would it pop the fuse just this one time. I am worried about leaving it for a few days ( the whole reason I got the unit) Any insight would be good. if you need more info please let me know, Thanks JR


starter/cap going bad......


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## jrinlv (Jun 18, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> starter/cap going bad......


I don't think there is a "starter" and it has a 3 year warranty so I don't think it would go bad in 60 days.
Have you ever had one or known one to go bad that fast...Thanks JR


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 19, 2010)

jrinlv said:


> I don't think there is a "starter" and it has a 3 year warranty so I don't think it would go bad in 60 days.
> Have you ever had one or known one to go bad that fast...Thanks JR


I think he means the start/cap in the light, not the CAP unit.


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## [email protected] (Jun 19, 2010)

Sticky Contactor...

Hey 5toned, hope all is well. I've been having some shitty luck with contactors lately. Seems they want to "stick" close. A little research leads me to believe they are too week, but are only rated at 30 amps and are running 4 1k lights. 

Anything I can do to help out sticky contactors?

Which contactors would you recomend for our lighting applications?


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 19, 2010)

How are you using them? To turn on the ballasts or to swap between bulbs? (12hrs this room and 12 hours that room)

If the latter, HPS have a high voltage (over 1000volts) start up spike that can cause the contacts to weld shut. I'd suggest to use 2 contactors, one on the bulbs and another on the ballasts. Kill the ballast, swap bulbs then ballasts back on.

Now if its just starting up the ballasts, then yeah, bigger contactors. SquareD/Telle, AB make good ones.



[email protected] said:


> Sticky Contactor...
> 
> Hey 5toned, hope all is well. I've been having some shitty luck with contactors lately. Seems they want to "stick" close. A little research leads me to believe they are too week, but are only rated at 30 amps and are running 4 1k lights.
> 
> ...


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## [email protected] (Jun 20, 2010)

^ Just Ballast.


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 20, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> ^ Just Ballast.


Yup under rated. You could use a few of them if its cheaper then buying a bigger single.


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 20, 2010)

hey 'Stoned.

I was working in my garage, and noticed that my subpanel (built with the house not an addition) is like 3 feet from my hot water tank. This OK for code? I have an outlet near by that is a GFI.


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## vairocks (Jun 20, 2010)

the ballasts wich r useable fr both MH n HPS dusnt hv a switch with it like fr convertin between li8s...cn i jst switch d li8s n put power on ??...mines a 400w named BrightStar...!!


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## IAm5toned (Jun 20, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> hey 'Stoned.
> 
> I was working in my garage, and noticed that my subpanel (built with the house not an addition) is like 3 feet from my hot water tank. This OK for code? I have an outlet near by that is a GFI.


the dedicated space for a sub panel (aka non service rated panel) is a radius of 30 inches, extending from the center mark of the panel, from floor to ceiling. so a 30 inch half circle surrounding the panel.
36 inches is the bare minimum to pass codes for new construction, as far as running water. authority haviong jurisdiction might fuss over it, might not.


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## IAm5toned (Jun 20, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Sticky Contactor...
> 
> Hey 5toned, hope all is well. I've been having some shitty luck with contactors lately. Seems they want to "stick" close. A little research leads me to believe they are too week, but are only rated at 30 amps and are running 4 1k lights.
> 
> ...



2 things.... either the coil is not getting enough voltage (only likely if you have 24v or 12v coils)
or, much more likely, your contactor is rated for 30 amps of _resistive load,_ not 30 amps of _inductive load.

the price difference between a 30 amp resistive relay/contactor and a 30 amp inductive relay/timer can be as much as 100$........

_your ballasts are inductive loads, and if i remember right, you got a bunch of them...





Quantity in Basket:_none_
Code: *CTR40242PDL*
Price:*$109.73*

 

Heavy Duty Contactor Description

No more bugs,No more dirty points.
Electrical Definite Purpose Contactor
Inductive Full Load Current 30 Amperes
Resistive Full Load Current 40 Amperes
Number of Poles 2
Power Rating @ 120 VAC 2 HP 
Power Rating @ 230 VAC
Single Phase 5 HP 
600 VAC Maximum
24 Volts Coil @ 50 Hertz

another thing to take into account, is that the contactor must be rated for _continuous duty_.

to do this, you must add up all of the _maximum input wattage_ of all your ballasts, and convert it to amperage to size the correct contactor. this is _not_ the lamp sizes, but the total amount of power the lamp/ballast combo uses.
for examples sake, lets pretend a 400w ballast uses 40w of power, in addition to the 400w the lamp pulls....
so the maximum input power of the ballast/lamp combo would be 440w.

440/(voltage)= amperage

440watts/240volts= 1.83amps

now lets pretend you have 10 400w fixtures....

440 x 10 = 4400
4400/240 = 18.33 amps

18.33 amps. this is considered the _full load ampaerage,_ or, in other words, all the power your pulling for lights.

ok, now we know your lights pull 18.33 amps 
now we have to find out what the _continuous duty rating_ is
to find _continuous duty _rating, you multiply the _full load amperage by a factor of 120%

_18.33amps x 120% = 21.96 (22 amps)

so, for our example, the _smallest _size contactor for our lights would be 22 amps inductive, 22 amps is the continuous duty, and inductive because thats the type of load you have..... since they dont make 22 amp contactors, we go to the next largest size, which in this case would be a 30 amp inductive load contactor. you can see what they cost from the one above....

as far as brand names, square D, allen bradley, GE are the only ones i would trust.
the key phrases you need to look for in a lighting contactor, is both _heavy duty, _and, _definite purpose.

if your buying a contactor that says, igeneral duty, general purpose_, you'll have issues with it....


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 21, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> the dedicated space for a sub panel (aka non service rated panel) is a radius of 30 inches, extending from the center mark of the panel, from floor to ceiling. so a 30 inch half circle surrounding the panel.
> 36 inches is the bare minimum to pass codes for new construction, as far as running water. authority haviong jurisdiction might fuss over it, might not.


So what the logic behind it?

An outlet (typically 15A) needs a GFI within 6 feet of water. 

A sub panel (can be 200A) is OK within ~30 inches?

Logic being an outlet is an end item and a person can be at the outlet while the sub panel is not really an end user item?

Overall I'm fine with it, but saw it and did a double take and got curious. It just didn't sit 'right' with me.

On another note: I have a plastic rubbermaid shed on the other side of a garage wall. I wanna toss my compressor in it (don't wanna listen to the noise). Would conduit or sealtite be OK (code wise) to bridge the 1 foot gap between the two 'buildings'?


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## [email protected] (Jun 21, 2010)

So is this contactor appropriate because it states definite purpose? Seems the others are quite expensive in comparison.


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## IAm5toned (Jun 21, 2010)

they are more expensive because either the number of poles, or the coil voltage.

the one i posted, is the shit... remember when wiring these contacters, all your doing is switching the hot only, or one leg of a 240v circuit...
so a 2 pole 30 amp contactor can switch 30 amps _per pole_ for a total of 60 amps.
when it comes to electrical devices, its hard put to find a better name than square d.


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## IAm5toned (Jun 21, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> So what the logic behind it?
> 
> An outlet (typically 15A) needs a GFI within 6 feet of water.
> 
> ...


the logic behind it is that the sub panel has a cover on it, that normally, would be closed, that can withstand a 5 second hose test from a distance of 30 inches before the interior of the can is breached with water.
whereas with receptacles, 98% of them have no cover that can withstand water for any duration of time.


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## [email protected] (Jun 22, 2010)

I'm having issues finding a Square D, 2 pole, 40A, with 120V coil. Is there a sight you've found to be less expensive and carries it all?


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## snocat (Jun 22, 2010)

ok here is my problem,last night a breaker triped in my panel,so when I go to reset it I get an electrical buzzing arking type sound, never had this happen to me before,I have turned on some very large breakers at work and have never had this happen, could it be just a bad breaker or do I HAVE SOME OTHER PROBLEM. thanks if you can help peace and grow on


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## IAm5toned (Jun 22, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I'm having issues finding a Square D, 2 pole, 40A, with 120V coil. Is there a sight you've found to be less expensive and carries it all?


radford bros is pretty good-

http://secure2.data-comm.com/servlet/RBIS/-strse-94697/SQUARE-D-8910DPA33V02-5B118/Detail


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## woodsmaneh! (Jun 22, 2010)

My power goes out a lot and goes of and on 2 or 3 times a week. my new digital 400's are failing, I can go back to the regular ones but would like to keep these and the ones they will replace. I am looking for a time delay that will not let the power come back on for say 20 minutes so they can cool and reset. They just need to be off for 20 to 30 before they re-fire as I said off and on kills them need the delay. Any ideas.

Peace

Thank you


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## IAm5toned (Jun 23, 2010)

woodsmaneh! said:


> My power goes out a lot and goes of and on 2 or 3 times a week. my new digital 400's are failing, I can go back to the regular ones but would like to keep these and the ones they will replace. I am looking for a time delay that will not let the power come back on for say 20 minutes so they can cool and reset. They just need to be off for 20 to 30 before they re-fire as I said off and on kills them need the delay. Any ideas.
> 
> Peace
> 
> Thank you


what you need, is a timer controlled relay/contactor that is _overridden _by a _one shot relay_

a one shot relay works like this-
when it recieves voltage on its input terminal, the relay activates for whatever period of time you set it for. when the time period expires, the relay switches off (or on, depending how you have it configured) _and the relay remains in that state untill voltage is removed from its input terminal._

so pretty much, what you would do, is have the input terminal on the one shot relay connected to the line voltage, ahead of the timer that controls the contactor. that way, if the power is interrupted (like in an outage) when the power comes back on, it will activate the timer, and stop the lights from turning on... then the timer runs out, the lights turn on, and your good to go untill the next interruption event.

the key to this operation is using the _one shot relay _to control the _coil _of a contactor.
the one shot relay itself wont be big enough to handle switching the lights, so you have to have that contactor for it to work right.

click me:


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## chillwillis (Jun 23, 2010)

I'm new here and I heard this was the place to go to solve electrical issues.


I accidentally plugged my t5 into a 240v outlet yesterday and now it's not working anymore. I'm pretty sure I shorted a circuit. Is there any way you know to fix this kind of thing, I really need this light for my mother.

It's still under warranty but I don't think they'd cover that kind of damage, right?


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## woodsmaneh! (Jun 23, 2010)

Is there something comercial avalible from Sq D ?


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## InvestInMe (Jun 23, 2010)

hi I was wounding about setting up 3 1k hps and one 600 hps I seen at the local shop they sell a "control board" that pugs into the dryer plug which I belive is 40 amps. this "controller" has 8 outlets and a heavy duty timer on it and its all housed on a peice of 1/2 inch plywood and retails for $395.... Is there anyone I could make this same thing for alot less? And will it run what i want?


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 24, 2010)

Well *now* its shorted. And its no longer under warranty, since you used it incorrectly.

"Gee Mr. Chevy dealer, I just drove my Corvette into a brick wall and now the windshield leaks. (along with all the fluids)"



chillwillis said:


> I'm new here and I heard this was the place to go to solve electrical issues.
> 
> 
> I accidentally plugged my t5 into a 240v outlet yesterday and now it's not working anymore. I'm pretty sure I shorted a circuit. Is there any way you know to fix this kind of thing, I really need this light for my mother.
> ...


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 24, 2010)

woodsmaneh! said:


> Is there something comercial avalible from Sq D ?


For what ? They make a LOT of stuff.


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 24, 2010)

What a dryer outlet supplies is variable. you NEED to check the breaker.
In all honesty, you sound too 'green' to go 3.6KW.
Heavy duty mean *nothing* its arbitrary.
Plywood mounting = unprofessional/homemade



InvestInMe said:


> hi I was wounding about setting up 3 1k hps and one 600 hps I seen at the local shop they sell a "control board" that pugs into the dryer plug which I belive is 40 amps. this "controller" has 8 outlets and a heavy duty timer on it and its all housed on a peice of 1/2 inch plywood and retails for $395.... Is there anyone I could make this same thing for alot less? And will it run what i want?


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 24, 2010)

'Stoned man, c'mon. You should know better the people we have here. Offering up an un-housed (open frame) item for HV.
There are plenty of on or off delay relays out there.



IAm5toned said:


> what you need, is a timer controlled relay/contactor that is _overridden _by a _one shot relay_
> 
> a one shot relay works like this-
> when it recieves voltage on its input terminal, the relay activates for whatever period of time you set it for. when the time period expires, the relay switches off (or on, depending how you have it configured) _and the relay remains in that state untill voltage is removed from its input terminal._
> ...


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## InvestInMe (Jun 25, 2010)

"What a dryer outlet supplies is variable. you NEED to check the breaker.
In all honesty, you sound too 'green' to go 3.6KW.
Heavy duty mean *nothing* its arbitrary.
Plywood mounting = unprofessional/homemade"

I agree it looks homemade .. Some electriction makes them in quebec and shipps them for 395 each and it looks liek $100 worth the parts maybe ....
The guy at the local shop told me that you jsut plug it into the the dryer plug ... In my entrance its a 40 amp breaker ... not the controllers I seen on website some are rated for 60 amps and 50 amp thats why IM asking ... Is there a controll board I can make myself that can plug into my dryer outlet whis in this case is 40 amps? and is 3600 watts too much for this ?


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## seebas (Jul 8, 2010)

literally looked everywhere, how do you rewire a ss-1 ballast so that it can run on 240v w/o having to purchase the MVP chord??


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## mr. green thumb 01 (Jul 8, 2010)

Some important electrical questions I have been wondering for quite some time now... + rep for help
1. Should I be running my lights (600hps flower 400mh veg) on a 240v (currently on 120v for the past yr with no problems) 
2. If so can I change a 120 to a 240 without re-wiring the circuit?
3. If I am tripping my breaker in the room (20amp) is it safe to switch it out with a 30 amp or will it over load the 20 amp wires?
4. Are extension cords safe to use? (14 gauge 30ft running about 1000watts threw)
5. Do you waste current/money using them?


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 8, 2010)

mr. green thumb 01 said:


> Some important electrical questions I have been wondering for quite some time now... + rep for help
> 1. Should I be running my lights (600hps flower 400mh veg) on a 240v (currently on 120v for the past yr with no problems)


Why change?


> 2. If so can I change a 120 to a 240 without re-wiring the circuit?


Meaning in the walls? Probably not by code regulations. Theoretically, yes.


> 3. If I am tripping my breaker in the room (20amp) is it safe to switch it out with a 30 amp or will it over load the 20 amp wires?


NO. The breakers are there to PROTECT THE WIRES from melting the insulation then shorting and the possible fire that can come shortly afterwards.



> 4. Are extension cords safe to use? (14 gauge 30ft running about 1000watts threw)
> 5. Do you waste current/money using them?


OSHA hates ext cord. So that should give you an indication. For an ext cord, I would up the size of the wire from what an 'inside wall' run requires. Its multi stranded cord over solid wire.

Yo can make a killer ext cord yourself with some SEW/SOW (or the like, getting dyslexic 5toned can give the cable I'm talking about) wire obtainable @ Home Cheapo or the like. and toss on a few ends. Used on the machines I service (upwards of 100amps @ 480 V)


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## IAm5toned (Jul 10, 2010)

its SO (single outlet) or SJ cord.

SJ is the best... its more flexible, and withstands uv light better than SO, though more expensive.

either way, SO or SJ cord. you wont be able to tell them apart besides the label.
i believe the outer jacket of the SJ is silicone infused rubber. the stuff is unbeleivably tough, you can drive a truck over it, and it still works.


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## thekenoguy (Jul 11, 2010)

Apparently I don't have priviledes to PM. Brick I hope you are still out there. Or does anyone know how to PM and what priviledges I have? Thanks everyone. Rick


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## kindone (Jul 12, 2010)

Excellent thread , I have a question and maybe its stupid but I dont think so, Can I use the same circuit that my hardwired smoke alarms are on to power other things?


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## SirTitanium (Jul 12, 2010)

I'm setting up. The only electricity inside the closet is a celing lightbulb. Can that be usurped by the ballast?


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## IAm5toned (Jul 12, 2010)

kindone said:


> Excellent thread , I have a question and maybe its stupid but I dont think so, Can I use the same circuit that my hardwired smoke alarms are on to power other things?


*absolutely not!*


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## IAm5toned (Jul 12, 2010)

SirTitanium said:


> I'm setting up. The only electricity inside the closet is a celing lightbulb. Can that be usurped by the ballast?


 more than likely. depends on the size of the ballast. i wouldnt go bigger than 600w.


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## IAm5toned (Jul 12, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> 'Stoned man, c'mon. You should know better the people we have here. Offering up an un-housed (open frame) item for HV.
> There are plenty of on or off delay relays out there.


find one that works as well for a better price, and im sold.
i can buy 2 of those, and the boxes to enclose them, (the relays come with mounting hardware) for less than the cost of a single enclosed one shot relay.


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 12, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> find one that works as well for a better price, and im sold.
> i can buy 2 of those, and the boxes to enclose them, (the relays come with mounting hardware) for less than the cost of a single enclosed one shot relay.


True, but my point was the typical level of competence of the people here......


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## JayDoe71 (Jul 12, 2010)

Hi Brick, thanks for helping us all out! I have a pretty straight forward question: I would like to power my grow room with one extention cord, meaning one circuit. The circuit will be dedicated to the grow room. It's 20 amps, and I'm assuming 120V (safe assumption?). 20 amps times 120V is 2400 watt capacity, correct? So with an 80% safe capacity I should be able to handle up to 1920 watts. Please let me know if my thinking is correct so far.

The home I just moved into was recently upgraded, and the new box is mostly 20 and 30 amp circuits. The four bedroom house has total 800 amps. 

I plan on connecting the extention cord to a large surge protector and then neatly routing the peripherals and timers as nessessary. The room will power the following: 1K light + ballast = 1100 watts, 8" Vortex fan = 260 watts, fourescents = 216 watts, water pump 28 watts, 6" fans (2) = 84, circutating fan = 84, Hanna Trimeter = 5 watts (?). This is a grand total of 1777 watts running off of the single 20 amp circuit. Will I be ok providing nothing else is attached to the same circuit?

Thanks in advance...Jay


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## IAm5toned (Jul 12, 2010)

JayDoe71 said:


> Hi Brick, thanks for helping us all out! I have a pretty straight forward question: I would like to power my grow room with one extention cord, meaning one circuit. The circuit will be dedicated to the grow room. It's 20 amps, and I'm assuming 120V (safe assumption?). 20 amps times 120V is 2400 watt capacity, correct? So with an 80% safe capacity I should be able to handle up to 1920 watts. Please let me know if my thinking is correct so far.
> 
> The home I just moved into was recently upgraded, and the new box is mostly 20 and 30 amp circuits. The four bedroom house has total 800 amps.
> 
> ...


you would sleep better at night, if you made a cord out of #10awg romex, and hardwired it to where you would have originally plugged in the xcord, and then hardwired the other end of it to a few plugs mounted on a board, instead of a cord running a powerstrip running 1800w. thats a firetrap man, but if you must, make for damn sure you buy at least a #10 awg extension cord


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## JayDoe71 (Jul 12, 2010)

Thanks, man, but hardwiring is a little out of my realm. I will consider running two Xcords rather then one


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## TheWinter (Jul 12, 2010)

JayDoe71 said:


> Thanks, man, but hardwiring is a little out of my realm. I will consider running two Xcords rather then one


Yea definitely run more than one line. The problem isn't nessesarily the line itself, Its the socket connection. I just had a situation where i nearly melted a (defective) 20a outlet. My extension cord was a big 10 gauge bastard but it just heated up the socket because it didn't make a perfect connection. BTW the socket & extension cord were both brand new. It can totally happen when your right up on the amp limits. If you can, run one #12 extension cord to your 1000 watter, and run another #12 for your accessories.


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## anomolies (Jul 12, 2010)

Ok since I don't know anything about electrical wiring and very limited knowledge about appliances, I'm gonna ask some dumb questions which I can't find the answer to anywhere.

Under what circumstances would you need to do all this crazy wiring and shit that I keep seeing people do on these forums (like this https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/937-how-grow-marijuana.html#post4675). Is it when you exceed the amount of amps?
And why would you need 240v? Why not just stick with 120v?

I currently run about 1000w, plugged into 2 seperate outlets,
with some fans for circulation. I plan on getting a 400 CFM fan or so. There are 3 outlets near my growroom. Is this safe?
What I didn't understand was, most houses have limit of 20 amps, is this on the entire circuit or per outlet?.. or per room?

Also, is it safe to have a power tap running off another power tap or surge protector?

Thanks!


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## gumball (Jul 13, 2010)

JayDoe71 said:


> Thanks, man, but hardwiring is a little out of my realm. I will consider running two Xcords rather then one


not trying to make light of a dangerous situation. but all hard wiring is is going to the breaker box, killing hte breaker you are hardwiring to, right?? or kill the whole panel, safest way for newbs, but have flashlights. then, already have the hardware to hardwire the romex into the outlet. i am not sure what hardware does this, or if 5toned meant to wire nut the romex to the wiring in the outlet that goes back to the breaker. then on the board with outlets in your grow space connect the wires to the outlets, and make sure you run a ground. 

isnt that able what it takes to hard wire? i have found electricity is dangerous, basic or advanced! but basic electricity is not complicated, you know an outlet or 2 in the house, all 120, no phasing or anything. sorry if I posted bad info, but this seemed pretty straight forward and simple.


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## axl (Jul 13, 2010)

i live in a 2800 square foot house, is it unrealstic to aim to have a total of 8 (1000) watt lights among all the other equipment in my basement, as long as i have a power box hardwired to my breaker box that can support the 8 lights? Also, how far can i stretch the hardwire from the breaker box?


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## RBG (Jul 13, 2010)

I am in a 2 bedroom apartment and Right now I have my plants under t5 432w(8 bulb) I want to try and keep running this light for my clones and mother. I have a 1000w hps and a grow tent I want to flower in. Would this be to much for my apartment to handle want to keep it safe and not get busted.​


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## JayDoe71 (Jul 13, 2010)

TheWinter said:


> Yea definitely run more than one line. The problem isn't nessesarily the line itself, Its the socket connection. I just had a situation where i nearly melted a (defective) 20a outlet. My extension cord was a big 10 gauge bastard but it just heated up the socket because it didn't make a perfect connection. BTW the socket & extension cord were both brand new. It can totally happen when your right up on the amp limits. If you can, run one #12 extension cord to your 1000 watter, and run another #12 for your accessories.


Thanks, my light should be under 10 amps and the total accessories is gonna be less then 6 amps. Do I need 10 gauge Xcords, or will 12's be fine?

Also, the chords will be ran from a basement window to a shed around the side of the house. I checked the shed and it's bone dry with no leaks, but the xchord will be exposed to the weather. I'm assuming an outdoor rated/heavy duty xchord will be ok in this senerio.


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## TheWinter (Jul 13, 2010)

Most 12 gauge extension cords rated for 20 amps, so your well within the limits even with a pretty lengthy cord, which it seems like you will need. Ive seen some extension cords, even though they were 12 ga, were not rated for 20 amps, so make sure you check the actual rating of the cord and make sure its 20 amp. A regular 14ga line would definitely get warm running the lengths your talking about.

Definitely get an outdoor rated cord. They are a little more expensive but you wont have any problems with corrosion and they will last longer than the indoor cord. outdoor cords are sealed, so moisture cant get in. A big plus even if its not being run outside.


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## TheWinter (Jul 13, 2010)

anomolies said:


> Ok since I don't know anything about electrical wiring and very limited knowledge about appliances, I'm gonna ask some dumb questions which I can't find the answer to anywhere.
> 
> Under what circumstances would you need to do all this crazy wiring and shit that I keep seeing people do on these forums (like this https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/937-how-grow-marijuana.html#post4675). Is it when you exceed the amount of amps?
> And why would you need 240v? Why not just stick with 120v?
> ...


Most bedrooms in the us are wired with 14-2 romex (14 guage wire), on a breaker for 15a. Sometimes bedrooms share a 15 amp circuit. Say you have Bed #2 and Bed #3 on a 15a line. You want to grow in both rooms, and do 4 1000 watters (over 2 4x8 tables, one per room). Each 1000w pulls approximately 8.5-9 amps. 8.5 x 4 = 34 amps. Your WELL above the 15a limit that every socket in Bed#2 and Bed#3 could provide. So some people run dedicated lines from their breaker box, or splice off their washer/dryer/range lines. That is one example why people would want to do some crazy wiring shit.

240v is more efficient than 110v in some ballasts, so some people prefer it. Another reason that people use 220v is because most peoples dryers run on 220v outlets. So it's pretty easy to run 220v into the room from your dryer, and not mess with anything. Instant 30 amps at 220v, which could essentially run 6 1000 watters. 220v is more of a shock risk though. Getting zapped with it hurts and is much more dangerous in a wet environment. I like to stick to 110v outlets. If I have a 220v line, I break it up into multiple 110v outlets.

In your situation, it depends on what your circuit is rated at. Its probably 15 amps if its a bedroom. 20amp circuits are usually in the garage, washer, and fridge. if your running 1000w worth of lights, your using up around 9 amps. If your going to get a 400 cfm fan, lets guess that it is around 200 watts, so thats 2 amps. So now your at 11 amps, so your under 15. Its always better to use more outlets when possible. That means less chance that any one outlet will overheat due to a weak connection.

Daisy chaining those surge protectors/xcords is OK for low amp stuff, but I wouldn't do it with lights.


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## anomolies (Jul 13, 2010)

I see.. I guess I'm fine for now.. I'm under 1000w atm. I think 1200-1500w will be the most I'll ever go up to.

Curious though.. Once my friend was building a guitar pedal.. it didn't quite come out right and when he plugged it into a the living room downstairs (my closet is upstairs on the opposite side of the house), it smoked so he unplugged it. However, this tripped the circuits in the closet-grow and master bedroom (which are in same room).... Any idea why?


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## LoVeSeNsI (Jul 14, 2010)

Just a quick one!

I got a 50w HPS with an E27 screw fitting. What sort of ballast would I need?

Cheers


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## Putterr (Jul 14, 2010)

I have an electrical box that is made to connect to a washer 240v plug. This electrical box also contains a timer which is then transfer to about 12 outlets, 8 are 240v Time and Live and 4 are 120v Live. The way I understand it, is that there is 4 wire in a washer outlet... 240v, 120v, a ground and neutral. I want to connect this box to a electrical baseboard heater (which runs on 240v) but I am missing a 120v wire... Can I take the wire from another circuit... a socket elsewhere? Since the 120v is required tu run the motor on the electrical box. And if so, since there is only 1 neutral I imagine the 120V and 240V go out the same way?


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## TheWinter (Jul 14, 2010)

anomolies said:


> I see.. I guess I'm fine for now.. I'm under 1000w atm. I think 1200-1500w will be the most I'll ever go up to.
> 
> Curious though.. Once my friend was building a guitar pedal.. it didn't quite come out right and when he plugged it into a the living room downstairs (my closet is upstairs on the opposite side of the house), it smoked so he unplugged it. However, this tripped the circuits in the closet-grow and master bedroom (which are in same room).... Any idea why?


Well, if they are all on the same circuit, it would trip that one circuit breaker, and thats OK. If it is on a different circuit, it could be that he is in an older home that has overlapping circuits, or has some kind of wiring problem throughout the house,plus a possibly bad circuit breaker, the one that didn't trip. Definitely something to get checked out by an electrician.


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## TheWinter (Jul 14, 2010)

LoVeSeNsI said:


> Just a quick one!
> 
> I got a 50w HPS with an E27 screw fitting. What sort of ballast would I need?
> 
> Cheers


a 50 hps is a 50 hps regardless of the socket. Pretty much any 50 hps ballast will work. They use E26/E27 sockets on those really small bulbs because they suit the small bulbs better.

Your bulb and socket, however, (not to be negative) are worth probably under $20... so instead of spending on a 50w ballast, it might be better to look for a 150+ watt hps system that comes with everything. They can be found for pretty cheap.. like heres a 150w HPS ballast, bulb, and hood for around $60. http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php?products_id=9151

Of course, if you dont mind wiring yourself, you can find those 50w HPS ballast kits for like $20..


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## 5colorslim (Jul 14, 2010)

i want to know what is the safest light system to use and most effective..is it LED? im worried about the risk of FIRE, im always at work, and i need to know what system i can trust the most...any help please?


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## JayDoe71 (Jul 14, 2010)

TheWinter said:


> Most 12 gauge extension cords rated for 20 amps, so your well within the limits even with a pretty lengthy cord, which it seems like you will need. Ive seen some extension cords, even though they were 12 ga, were not rated for 20 amps, so make sure you check the actual rating of the cord and make sure its 20 amp. A regular 14ga line would definitely get warm running the lengths your talking about.
> 
> Definitely get an outdoor rated cord. They are a little more expensive but you wont have any problems with corrosion and they will last longer than the indoor cord. outdoor cords are sealed, so moisture cant get in. A big plus even if its not being run outside.


I took a trip to Lowes today and couldn't find a 12 gauge xchord that was rated for 20 amps. The 20 amps were 10 gauge, and they're big, expensive suckers. I plan on one chord running about 9.6 amps (the light and ballast), and a second cord running the other accessories, about 6 amps. Do I need cords rated for 20 amps?


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## GreenTree87 (Jul 15, 2010)

Question about light socket wiring. I have looked up and read on how to wire light sockets but my question is can I wire 4 light sockets to a single 110v power cord if I'm gonna be using LED lights for the light sockets? Each LED light uses 3.5 watts so I know for a fact that I won't be drawing to much power from a single plug.

I know berets electrical tape is needed so unlike most people that don't use the berets I would have a lower % of a fire starting.

Also I will be plugging them into a 16 gauge wire power bar


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## smackey81 (Jul 15, 2010)

hey man i dont know nothing bout electrical stuff but i have an extension lead running to my grown room with a few power boards and about 10 - 15 different things plugged in like light pumps fans stuff like that, how dangerous is this and what can i do to stop shit happening like a fire or something thanks


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## GreenTree87 (Jul 15, 2010)

smackey81 said:


> hey man i dont know nothing bout electrical stuff but i have an extension lead running to my grown room with a few power boards and about 10 - 15 different things plugged in like light pumps fans stuff like that, how dangerous is this and what can i do to stop shit happening like a fire or something thanks


I would get an electrician to install some plugs to where your grow is.


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## Malenki (Jul 15, 2010)

I am making a micro grow 21"w x 10"d x 55"h its going to be a dual chamber grow. I want to get it to where only one wire comes out, at least I think so. There is a good size surge protector at walmart I cant find it on their site it has a 15amp fuse in it. So my question is how much stuff can you put on a surge protector? Will I be fine if I buy one and put say 6 cfls, 2-3 120mm pc fans? 

There would be 4 26wat cfls on the bottom chamber with a fan. The cfls would each have there own socket and wire that would then be spliced or plugged together and then into the surge protector. The top chamber would have 2 26 watt cfls, havent decided about location of them yet, and 2 fans.

What would the difference be if there was some 42 watt cfls mixed in? Also if one surge protector with all of that on it is going to burn my place down, would it be safe on two surge protectors? And what if I took two surge protectors and spliced their wires together?


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## GreenTree87 (Jul 15, 2010)

Malenki said:


> I am making a micro grow 21"w x 10"d x 55"h its going to be a dual chamber grow. I want to get it to where only one wire comes out, at least I think so. There is a good size surge protector at walmart I cant find it on their site it has a 15amp fuse in it. So my question is how much stuff can you put on a surge protector? Will I be fine if I buy one and put say 6 cfls, 2-3 120mm pc fans?
> 
> There would be 4 26wat cfls on the bottom chamber with a fan. The cfls would each have there own socket and wire that would then be spliced or plugged together and then into the surge protector. The top chamber would have 2 26 watt cfls, havent decided about location of them yet, and 2 fans.
> 
> What would the difference be if there was some 42 watt cfls mixed in? Also if one surge protector with all of that on it is going to burn my place down, would it be safe on two surge protectors? And what if I took two surge protectors and spliced their wires together?


1 - Never touch the surge protector wires mainly because your making the fire % higher. If you cut the plug in part off and use that as your wiring from the plug to your light socket that could work but that can be kinda expensive.
2 - I have 1 PS3 (around 300 to 400 watts), Lizard tank (150 watts), TV, VCR, 2 Laptops and 2 external hard drives plugged into a single 16 gauge power bar with no problems but I wouldn't do more then that for safty reasons.
3 -I would never have more then 1 41+ watt CFL on a single wire because the more wattage you have on a single plug the more risk of a fire you have. Also I wouldn't bother splicing more then 1 CFL onto a single power cord. Now if it was LED lights that use 3.5 watts then you might be able to get away with having 4 of them on a single wire because they would only draw 14 watts in all and they don't give off any heat. I have a few in my room instead of using a few 13w CFLs because do the math and having a single 13w CFL running 24/7 for 30 days would cost around $0.60 compared to around $0.15 of running a 3.5w LED light for the same amount of time.

They are the same as the CFLs where you can't use them on a dimmer but its 1 of the best ways to cut down on your power bill cost thus lowering your chances of a person noticing your bill because face it would you rather have a 600w HPS with 13w to 60w lights that most people use or would you rather use the 3.5w LED lights to cut the cost so that its harder to notice the difference in the power bill.


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## IAm5toned (Jul 15, 2010)

5colorslim said:


> i want to know what is the safest light system to use and most effective..is it LED? im worried about the risk of FIRE, im always at work, and i need to know what system i can trust the most...any help please?


 T5 High Output Fluorescent lighting is your best bet.....


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## IAm5toned (Jul 15, 2010)

JayDoe71 said:


> I took a trip to Lowes today and couldn't find a 12 gauge xchord that was rated for 20 amps. The 20 amps were 10 gauge, and they're big, expensive suckers. I plan on one chord running about 9.6 amps (the light and ballast), and a second cord running the other accessories, about 6 amps. Do I need cords rated for 20 amps?


 extension cords are always rated at a lower ampacity than standard American Wire Guage wire..... a #10awg cord will be the only cord rated for 20 amps.


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## IAm5toned (Jul 15, 2010)

GreenTree87 said:


> Question about light socket wiring. I have looked up and read on how to wire light sockets but my question is can I wire 4 light sockets to a single 110v power cord if I'm gonna be using LED lights for the light sockets? Each LED light uses 3.5 watts so I know for a fact that I won't be drawing to much power from a single plug.
> 
> I know berets electrical tape is needed so unlike most people that don't use the berets I would have a lower % of a fire starting.
> 
> Also I will be plugging them into a 16 gauge wire power bar


that will work fine.


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## IAm5toned (Jul 15, 2010)

smackey81 said:


> hey man i dont know nothing bout electrical stuff but i have an extension lead running to my grown room with a few power boards and about 10 - 15 different things plugged in like light pumps fans stuff like that, how dangerous is this and what can i do to stop shit happening like a fire or something thanks


 sounds like you need to _hire _an electrician.......... but if it was me, i would hardwire the cord to the main panel on a dedicated breaker, ditch the power strips, get some outlet boxes, romex, and plugs, nail the boxes to a wooden stand/board, wire them together, then wire the cord onto the lead receptacle, which should be a GFCI type outlet, then wire the rest of the outlets on the board off of the _load side contacts _on the GFCI outlet. then plug all your shit back into the now Ground Fault protected circuit. 
'
Get some battery powered smoke detectors, and put em up all over the grow room, often there is smoke long before there is a fire, and the earlier you have warning, the more likely you can put out something before it burns your house down, or if its too late, at least have a warning and a chance to get out of the house.


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## IAm5toned (Jul 15, 2010)

Malenki said:


> I am making a micro grow 21"w x 10"d x 55"h its going to be a dual chamber grow. I want to get it to where only one wire comes out, at least I think so. There is a good size surge protector at walmart I cant find it on their site it has a 15amp fuse in it. So my question is how much stuff can you put on a surge protector? Will I be fine if I buy one and put say 6 cfls, 2-3 120mm pc fans?
> 
> There would be 4 26wat cfls on the bottom chamber with a fan. The cfls would each have there own socket and wire that would then be spliced or plugged together and then into the surge protector. The top chamber would have 2 26 watt cfls, havent decided about location of them yet, and 2 fans.
> 
> What would the difference be if there was some 42 watt cfls mixed in? Also if one surge protector with all of that on it is going to burn my place down, would it be safe on two surge protectors? And what if I took two surge protectors and spliced their wires together?


that single 15amp surge protector will be fine for your CFL's





GreenTree87 said:


> 1 - Never touch the surge protector wires mainly because your making the fire % higher. If you cut the plug in part off and use that as your wiring from the plug to your light socket that could work but that can be kinda expensive.
> 2 - I have 1 PS3 (around 300 to 400 watts), Lizard tank (150 watts), TV, VCR, 2 Laptops and 2 external hard drives plugged into a single 16 gauge power bar with no problems but I wouldn't do more then that for safty reasons.
> 3 -I would never have more then 1 41+ watt CFL on a single wire because the more wattage you have on a single plug the more risk of a fire you have. Also I wouldn't bother splicing more then 1 CFL onto a single power cord. Now if it was LED lights that use 3.5 watts then you might be able to get away with having 4 of them on a single wire because they would only draw 14 watts in all and they don't give off any heat. I have a few in my room instead of using a few 13w CFLs because do the math and having a single 13w CFL running 24/7 for 30 days would cost around $0.60 compared to around $0.15 of running a 3.5w LED light for the same amount of time.
> 
> They are the same as the CFLs where you can't use them on a dimmer but its 1 of the best ways to cut down on your power bill cost thus lowering your chances of a person noticing your bill because face it would you rather have a 600w HPS with 13w to 60w lights that most people use or would you rather use the 3.5w LED lights to cut the cost so that its harder to notice the difference in the power bill.


on what basis do you make your assumptions? _you shouldnt be giving people electrical advice if you dont have the credentials to back it up._
you can splice together the power cord of power strips all say long with no issues whatsoever... its called a _parallel tap _amnd its how _all_ the outlets in your house are wired anyways, so whats the difference between splicing together two powerstrips to one cord, or plugging in to power strips in different outlets on the same circuit? there is no difference.
an average 25' 16awg extension cord or fixture wire is rated for 2 amps @ 120vac. thats 240w. by my math, that means you could easily have any combination of lamps up to 192w of CFL's on a single 16awg cord with no issues whatsoever. the shorter the length of the cord, the higher the ampacity. if its less than 10' of 18awg cord, then you can run up to 288w, if its less than 6' you can have 432w.....
and as far as math goes, you should check yours because an 3.5w LED has nowhere near the PAR of a 13w CFL
runing the led's would be useless over an almost negligible cost difference. 4 43w cfl's (172w actual)will put to shame 172w of led's.

why is that? APAR and IPAR......


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## IAm5toned (Jul 15, 2010)

http://www.magnet.fsu.edu/usershub/safety/documents/extensioncord.pdf


enjoy.


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## guestaweed (Jul 15, 2010)

hey man I was looking for a similar thing in my native language but don't find it. Anyhow let s see how it goes. 
Can you and will you please explain step by step (and I do mean step by step if you have the patience) how to connect an eti ballast(complete control gear) to a cool tube and the ballast to the ground.

here s the cool tube http://www.france-hydroponique.com/administration/produits/images/cooltube-shp-ts-1000.gif 

here s the ballast http://www.promshop.fr/img/p/541-1486-thickbox.jpg

I think I've got it actually while surfing for a ballast photo to attach the message but would like to get a professional opinion

Thanx 
peace

PS how many watt does 25A mean(we're talking about Europe here like 220 voltage or something ....)?


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 15, 2010)

Just a note on surge suppressors: Their job is to keep the incoming power from allowing a high voltage 'surge' through. They really don't protect much, do NOT do voltage regulation. Think of them as a pressure blow off. If things get FAR out of wack they kick in.

Secondly, nearly all are MOV based. These wear out in 6 months to a year. And give NO signs that they are spent.

There is very little reason to use one in a grow room, outside of getting more outlets for more stuff (giggles thinking of Lampoon's Christmas Vacation)


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## Malenki (Jul 15, 2010)

Awesome now I just have to buy it and mount it in the cab and run the wires then. Which means I can move onto figuring out the wires for the lighting. I have used the small clamp lights before, always took the metal reflectors off. This one from walmart seems to have like a heavy duty ceramic? socket. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Bayco-10.5-Brooder-Clamp-Light/14003468#ProductDetail I was just going to splice four of them together and zip tie them to a pvc frame. To ease raising the lights, it should be a tight squeeze but it should beat the large cfls. What do yall think? Love the link havent had to go to their site in a few years.


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## IAm5toned (Jul 15, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Just a note on surge suppressors: Their job is to keep the incoming power from allowing a high voltage 'surge' through. They really don't protect much, do NOT do voltage regulation. Think of them as a pressure blow off. If things get FAR out of wack they kick in.
> 
> Secondly, nearly all are MOV based. These wear out in 6 months to a year. And give NO signs that they are spent.
> 
> There is very little reason to use one in a grow room, outside of getting more outlets for more stuff (giggles thinking of Lampoon's Christmas Vacation)


or A Christmas Story...... the old man, and the light....lol


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## GreenTree87 (Jul 15, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> and as far as math goes, you should check yours because an 3.5w LED has nowhere near the PAR of a 13w CFL
> runing the led's would be useless over an almost negligible cost difference. 4 43w cfl's (172w actual)will put to shame 172w of led's.
> 
> why is that? APAR and IPAR......


1 - I wasn't saying to use the 3.5 LED for growing I was talking about replacing the light bulbs in the house to help counter the amount of power a grow space uses because most people use 13w+ lights in their house. The hole point of chaging the house lights with LED lights is to cut down on the power bill

2 - The way he was making it sound like he wanted to have 2 power bars spliced together so it only takes 1 plug. Doing that you have a higher chance of over loading that 1 plug and causing a fire




BigBudBalls said:


> Just a note on surge suppressors: Their job is to keep the incoming power from allowing a high voltage 'surge' through. They really don't protect much, do NOT do voltage regulation. Think of them as a pressure blow off. If things get FAR out of wack they kick in


Wouldn't splicing 2 surge protectors together to use one plug cause a problem with it doing its job?https://www.rollitup.org/members/bigbudballs-38682.html


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## IAm5toned (Jul 15, 2010)

GreenTree87 said:


> 1 - I wasn't saying to use the 3.5 LED for growing I was talking about replacing the light bulbs in the house to help counter the amount of power a grow space uses because most people use 13w+ lights in their house. The hole point of chaging the house lights with LED lights is to cut down on the power bill
> 
> 2 - The way he was making it sound like he wanted to have 2 power bars spliced together so it only takes 1 plug. Doing that you have a higher chance of over loading that 1 plug and causing a fire
> 
> ...


no. think of a surge protector as a sponge.... it _absorbs_ transient voltage spikes... when it does so, it also breaks the circuit so that that same transient does not pass through your device and fry it in the process.


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## guestaweed (Jul 16, 2010)

guestaweed said:


> hey man I was looking for a similar thing in my native language but don't find it. Anyhow let s see how it goes.
> Can you and will you please explain step by step (and I do mean step by step if you have the patience) how to connect an eti ballast(complete control gear) to a cool tube and the ballast to the ground.
> 
> here s the cool tube http://www.france-hydroponique.com/administration/produits/images/cooltube-shp-ts-1000.gif
> ...




so ..i don t think I got an answer yet on how to connect ballast to cooltube.....
-oeace


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 16, 2010)

GreenTree87 said:


> Wouldn't splicing 2 surge protectors together to use one plug cause a problem with it doing its job?


Probably be easier to just daisy chain them then go through the trouble of splicing them.


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## darosa420 (Jul 16, 2010)

I have two led panels(blue) in my veg room and three led panels(red) for the flowering room. I bought these lights online for cheap on a site called "LAshop.com". they ran for about i think 30 to 40 bucks each compared to everywhere else that cost over 200 bucks.when i bought these they said its for growing.There are 225 led iodes or diodes? i know there is 225 led bulbs on each panel(15x15).my question is would you know how many true watts i am pushing with these?


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## GreenTree87 (Jul 16, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Probably be easier to just daisy chain them then go through the trouble of splicing them.


 That's what I was thinking and its also less of a fire hazard then splicing them.



darosa420 said:


> I have two led panels(blue) in my veg room and three led panels(red) for the flowering room. I bought these lights online for cheap on a site called "LAshop.com". they ran for about i think 30 to 40 bucks each compared to everywhere else that cost over 200 bucks.when i bought these they said its for growing.There are 225 led iodes or diodes? i know there is 225 led bulbs on each panel(15x15).my question is would you know how many true watts i am pushing with these?


What ever wattage it says the pannel uses that's what it uses. There is no such thing as true watts that a bulb puts out that's not what the panel says it uses. Its like a person buying a 45w CLF and thinking its actuly pushing out 200 watts equivalent because that's what it says. so...

Once again. What the panel says the amount of watts it uses that's the amount it uses. The numbers that truly matter is the Lumes and the Lumes per watt

Lumes - How strong the light is that the light puts out
Lumes per watt - how efficient the lights are for putting out lumes. The higher lumes per watt a light puts out the more efficient it is at doing the job.


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## IAm5toned (Jul 16, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Probably be easier to just daisy chain them then go through the trouble of splicing them.


no, daisy chaining the power strips is not the right answer. by daisy chaining the strips, your passing all of the load through the first strip, which should kick the breaker on it.....
the correct way is to have a parrallel splice on the cords, a "t tap" on the 3 wire 120v circuit.
daisy chaining is making a parrallel circuit into a series/parrallel circuit, and when you do that, voltage drop becomes a major factor. undervoltage causes components to overheat, which causes the breaker to trip on the forst power strip. by splicing the cords together, the load is evenly divided between the 2 strips, whereas if they are daisy chained, all the load goes through the first strip. am i making sense?


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## IAm5toned (Jul 16, 2010)

darosa420 said:


> I have two led panels(blue) in my veg room and three led panels(red) for the flowering room. I bought these lights online for cheap on a site called "LAshop.com". they ran for about i think 30 to 40 bucks each compared to everywhere else that cost over 200 bucks.when i bought these they said its for growing.There are 225 led iodes or diodes? i know there is 225 led bulbs on each panel(15x15).my question is would you know how many true watts i am pushing with these?


 you need a good multimeter....

take an amp reading of the fixture, and write it down. take a voltage reading of the circuit the led panel is plugged in, with the panel off. write that number down. multiply the two numbers, to get your wattge. example-
1.41 amps @ 121.46vac = 171.2586 watts
(1.41 x 121.46 = 171.2586)


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## KidCreole (Jul 16, 2010)

so im looking into what would be necessary to run a small scale sog on abt 200 watts of electricity. (cfl's) could i go about buying myself a pedal powered generator to create and store enough energy to run my op? i wanna live greener and also it would be a great source of cardio and a deterrent to the electric company and/or police from snooping because of energy consumption. Is this feasible? ive got the build to put in work for my babies, but i wanna make sure im able to generate this much power and safely store it before i build a unit. if im on the right track but off in the math, how much energy am i looking at needing to use to run a bubble tank of two mothers (under 4 26w daylight cfls with reflector) and about 10 lil ladies in soil(under 6-8 cool white cfl's across the spectrum. like 7 cool, 1 warm).


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## Malenki (Jul 16, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> no, daisy chaining the power strips is not the right answer. by daisy chaining the strips, your passing all of the load through the first strip, which should kick the breaker on it.....
> the correct way is to have a parrallel splice on the cords, a "t tap" on the 3 wire 120v circuit.
> daisy chaining is making a parrallel circuit into a series/parrallel circuit, and when you do that, voltage drop becomes a major factor. undervoltage causes components to overheat, which causes the breaker to trip on the forst power strip. by splicing the cords together, the load is evenly divided between the 2 strips, whereas if they are daisy chained, all the load goes through the first strip. am i making sense?


Whats safer splicing the wires with the t-tap or twisting the two wires together and then twisting them around the main wire. This would be for the light bulbs. I would be just using the one surge protector.


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## TheWinter (Jul 16, 2010)

GreenTree87 said:


> Question about light socket wiring. I have looked up and read on how to wire light sockets but my question is can I wire 4 light sockets to a single 110v power cord if I'm gonna be using LED lights for the light sockets? Each LED light uses 3.5 watts so I know for a fact that I won't be drawing to much power from a single plug.
> 
> I know berets electrical tape is needed so unlike most people that don't use the berets I would have a lower % of a fire starting.
> 
> Also I will be plugging them into a 16 gauge wire power bar


3.5 watts is nothing you could run a 50 of those on a 18ga cord


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## GreenTree87 (Jul 17, 2010)

TheWinter said:


> 3.5 watts is nothing you could run a 50 of those on a 18ga cord


actually you could probably run more then 50 on it because I have over 400w of stuff on a 16 gauge wire power bar so more like 114 could be ran on of it


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## steve 0 (Jul 17, 2010)

Hi I have an iGuzzini 100w hps ballast, can I run 2 lights off the same ballast both 100w ?


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## GreenTree87 (Jul 17, 2010)

steve 0 said:


> Hi I have an iGuzzini 100w hps ballast, can I run 2 lights off the same ballast both 100w ?


no. you can only run 1 light off 1 ballast


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 17, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> no, daisy chaining the power strips is not the right answer. by daisy chaining the strips, your passing all of the load through the first strip, which should kick the breaker on it.....
> the correct way is to have a parrallel splice on the cords, a "t tap" on the 3 wire 120v circuit.


So? The power strips typically hace a 15a breaker in them, same as the one in the breaker panel (usually)
[qoute]
daisy chaining is making a parrallel circuit into a series/parrallel circuit, and when you do that, voltage drop becomes a major factor. undervoltage causes components to overheat, which causes the breaker to trip on the forst power strip. by splicing the cords together, the load is evenly divided between the 2 strips, whereas if they are daisy chained, all the load goes through the first strip. am i making sense?[/QUOTE]

Where does the series part come from?


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## steve 0 (Jul 18, 2010)

ok tnx, for that.


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## IAm5toned (Jul 18, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Where does the series part come from?


across the hot bus of the first power strip..... from line voltage to the last receptacle on the first strip, where the second strip is plugged into. all the devices plugged into the first strip, excluding the the last outlet where the second strip is plugged into, are in parallel. but all the load for everything that is connected to the _second power strip_ must first pass through the first power strip, the load has to travel from line, to the last outlet, to get to the second strip, making it series-parallel connected. you can plug in the second stip on any outlet in the first, it doesnt change the outcome, just the length of the series connection.

try this out for yourselve, if you think im shitting you.
plug in say 1500-1600w each to two power strips. now plug one into the other, and plug the other into an outlet, and see what happens. the first strip will kick. now unplug the second from the first, and plug it directly into the same outlet the first is plugged into. presto! they both work now.
following me yet?


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## harper2002 (Jul 27, 2010)

Im looking at sticking a grow tent in my room but only thing is I only have one socket.... will this handle a 600w HPS, fan and nft?


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## IAm5toned (Jul 27, 2010)

as long as your not running anything else too big on the same circuit.
most circuits are good for 1440w of grow power in a house.
thats per circuit, not per outlet. a circuit can share several outlets, or just one, depending on how the house is wired. most circuits share outlets.


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## Sub Zero (Jul 27, 2010)

*IAm5toned*

I have a question about 5vac coil 15 amp 120vac relay.
I found one tiny and cheap, but the legs are dinky.
Big concern or not? If you need mo info, I'll get it to you.
Thanks in advance brother...


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 27, 2010)

Sure thats not 5VDC coil with 15A (120V) contacts?
(can't say I've ever seen 5VAC coils or control logic)



Sub Zero said:


> *IAm5toned*
> 
> I have a question about 5vac coil 15 amp 120vac relay.
> I found one tiny and cheap, but the legs are dinky.
> ...


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## babimilkk (Jul 27, 2010)

what all do i need to run a 400 hps? ballast, lights, cooling agents is that all?


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## Sub Zero (Jul 27, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Sure thats not 5VDC coil with 15A (120V) contacts?
> (can't say I've ever seen 5VAC coils or control logic)


 OOPS!!! LOL!!! 5vdc...


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## IAm5toned (Jul 28, 2010)

Sub Zero said:


> *IAm5toned*
> 
> I have a question about 5vac coil 15 amp 120vac relay.
> I found one tiny and cheap, but the legs are dinky.
> ...


need to know what your going to use it for, and a model number if you have it (of the relay)


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## Sub Zero (Jul 28, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> need to know what your going to use it for, and a model number if you have it (of the relay)


PB1131-ND Relay pwr spst-no 15a 5vdc pcb / Digi-Key Corp.

Designing a better more reliable type CAP NFT-1e recycle timer...

The problem is solved, we ripped that relay off our PCB design. 

But I'm still curious if that relay would be safe, it is super quiet... Thanks

http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ORWH.pdf


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## IAm5toned (Jul 28, 2010)

it should be fine, if all your running is one pump. 
its definitly rated for inductive loads, so i see no reason why it wont work, after all, your using it for one of its intended designs, cycling a load.
i wouldnt try running a ballast with it tho, not sure if its rated for continuous duty or not.


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## schwa (Jul 28, 2010)

my buddy gave me a fixture and it has these rock things in each of the cords. They get pretty hot which is my worry. have you ever seen one before and does this one look safe?View attachment 1069380View attachment 1069381


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## IAm5toned (Jul 28, 2010)

schwa said:


> my buddy gave me a fixture and it has these rock things in each of the cords. They get pretty hot which is my worry. have you ever seen one before and does this one look safe?View attachment 1069380View attachment 1069381


that is a resin-encased ballast from an underground canister light. the ballast core has been encased in resin to protect it from ground moisture coming from conduit/cable entry points that condenses on the heat sinks of the core during the lights off period. ballasts get pretty hot, and a resin encased ballast gets a bit hotter than normal. it should be fine, but if you notice an increase in the heat, like it gets hotter than normal, you might want to check the cord connections on the ballast, and make sure there not loose.


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## Sub Zero (Jul 28, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> it should be fine, if all your running is one pump.
> its definitly rated for inductive loads, so i see no reason why it wont work, after all, your using it for one of its intended designs, cycling a load.
> i wouldnt try running a ballast with it tho, not sure if its rated for continuous duty or not.


Thanks man, after reading this thread with all the crazy ideas, I knew that relay was too small.
I just know some clown will plug in ten pumps on my little ol timer, can you say law suet. I want to put a resettable 15a fuse in this but damn, $5.00 or so for one.
Any ideas??? Thanks + Rep!


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## Sub Zero (Jul 28, 2010)

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to IAm5toned again. Sorry bud... I'll get back to you soon...


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## IAm5toned (Jul 28, 2010)

no rep required.

how about $1.67 for a 10 amp breaker?



http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/CB-010/10-AMP-RESETTABLE-CIRCUIT-BREAKER/1.html


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## caligrower187 (Jul 28, 2010)

I have two 150w fixtures set up. installed a y splitter with two 26w cfls. when i turned it on both bulbs were only half as bright...any tips?


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## IAm5toned (Jul 28, 2010)

yes. 
get a 600w.....


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## schwa (Jul 29, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> that is a resin-encased ballast from an underground canister light. the ballast core has been encased in resin to protect it from ground moisture coming from conduit/cable entry points that condenses on the heat sinks of the core during the lights off period. ballasts get pretty hot, and a resin encased ballast gets a bit hotter than normal. it should be fine, but if you notice an increase in the heat, like it gets hotter than normal, you might want to check the cord connections on the ballast, and make sure there not loose.


so theres no loose wires or wires showing for that matter. i dont know how hot the "ballast core" is supposed to get but mine get pretty damn hot. not hot enough to melt anything but hot enough that i cant put my hand on it for a complete second. I have been using them for 3 weeks now 24/7 and no fire yet....


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## Sub Zero (Jul 29, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> no rep required.
> 
> how about $1.67 for a 10 amp breaker?
> 
> ...



I'm thinking panel mount fuse now... thanks again!


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## IAm5toned (Jul 29, 2010)

schwa said:


> so theres no loose wires or wires showing for that matter. i dont know how hot the "ballast core" is supposed to get but mine get pretty damn hot. not hot enough to melt anything but hot enough that i cant put my hand on it for a complete second. I have been using them for 3 weeks now 24/7 and no fire yet....


you should shut them down for at least an hour per week, per manufacturers recommendations . some say for 15 mins every 24 hour period.


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## happydude (Jul 30, 2010)

Hello all I am going to be running 8000W and need to know how big of a breaker and line i should run. this is the timer i have http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/product.php?xProd=294&xSec=86 what shoud I use to run all at once


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## zimbabwe (Jul 30, 2010)

yo how do you get a duralast twin fan to switch to an exhaust fan


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## anomolies (Jul 30, 2010)

Will I be able to safely do 600w & 1000w in the same room on a normal circuit?

or two, 600w ?


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## anomolies (Aug 2, 2010)

anomolies said:


> Will I be able to safely do 600w & 1000w in the same room on a normal circuit?
> 
> or two, 600w ?


Anyone got an answer for this one? thx


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## dtp5150 (Aug 3, 2010)

it might work....

but heres my question:

Will it work if I wire 220v Hot and Neutral to a 110v extension cord, and then take the 2nd 220v hot and neutral and wire that to another extension cord ( all sharing the ground), will that create two split phase 110v circuits utilizing both 20A breakers?


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## lahierba (Aug 3, 2010)

@anomolies it would be around 15A at 110V 
@dtp5150 i really would like to help you, but i dont understand, what youre trying to do.


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## dtp5150 (Aug 3, 2010)

i'm trying to create two 110v circuits ( each on a different extension cord ) utilizing my 220v dryer socket. since the 220v is wired to two 20A breakers it will solve my power problems running on the 15A circuit.


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## lahierba (Aug 3, 2010)

well if its a two phase system (power on two wires which make 220V together) youll get 127V. its a little much i guess, your room could burn or your equipment could break. and beside youll need a neutral in awg 8.


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## dtp5150 (Aug 3, 2010)

why would it be 127 and not 120?

I just noticed, I thought my dryer outlet had 4 prongs but it only has 3. So, it has no ground, only neutral.

so if i use one leg of the 220v and the neutral, i'll get 127v to the cord? Also, can I use the other leg and tie into the same neutral, and this would be another 127v extension? And these would use the two 20A breakers separately for each cord? Can I connect the ground of the extension cord to the neutral?

I only have one 15A circuit in my garage and a dual 20A dryer outlet, how can i power the most watts without rewiring. I guess I could get correct 240v cords for my ballasts, and then i could get a dryer outlet Y. I'm thinkin that may be the safest bet?


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## IAm5toned (Aug 3, 2010)

dtp5150 said:


> i'm trying to create two 110v circuits ( each on a different extension cord ) utilizing my 220v dryer socket. since the 220v is wired to two 20A breakers it will solve my power problems running on the 15A circuit.


hire a pro, your missing the correct wiring to do that.....


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## IAm5toned (Aug 3, 2010)

lahierba said:


> well if its a two phase system (power on two wires which make 220V together) youll get 127V. its a little much i guess, your room could burn or your equipment could break. and beside youll need a neutral in awg 8.


127v nominal isnt going to hurt anything. ive seen line voltage as high as 134v with no issues on a single phase system.


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## IAm5toned (Aug 3, 2010)

happydude said:


> Hello all I am going to be running 8000W and need to know how big of a breaker and line i should run. this is the timer i have http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/product.php?xProd=294&xSec=86 what shoud I use to run all at once


8kw is a heavy load, you will need an entire subpanel to power it.... look to spend anywhere from 1.5k to 3k, depending on on your house is built, and the electrical service that is already servicing it.
alot of heavy mods need to be done to safely run 8kw continuous duty......
like a 100 amp dedicated service....


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## IAm5toned (Aug 3, 2010)

dtp5150 said:


> why would it be 127 and not 120?
> 
> I just noticed, I thought my dryer outlet had 4 prongs but it only has 3. So, it has no ground, only neutral.
> 
> ...


i dont know why it would be 127.... theres really no way to determine your line voltage without knowing quite a few things, without a multi meter.


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## IAm5toned (Aug 3, 2010)

dtp5150 said:


> why would it be 127 and not 120?
> 
> I just noticed, I thought my dryer outlet had 4 prongs but it only has 3. So, it has no ground, only neutral.
> 
> ...


like i said above, YOU DONT HAVE THE CORRECT WIRING, youll end up getting someone killed........ that extra wire is NOT a neutral, its a GROUND, and there is a BIG difference between the two. putting a neutral load, onto a grounded conductor, can, will, (and in the past) has gotten people killed. sometimes you dont even have to be in the same house, you could kill your neighbor when he tries to step into the shower.....


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## lahierba (Aug 4, 2010)

dtp5150 said:


> why would it be 127 and not 120?


its higher electrotechnics. but i can tell you if you have a two phase system, the voltage between two lines is (voltage to earth)*sqareroot of 3.
so if you have 220V between two lines youll get 220V/1,73=127,17V. if you want to be really safe buy equipment from europe. it runs on 220V to 240V.



> I just noticed, I thought my dryer outlet had 4 prongs but it only has 3. So, it has no ground, only neutral.


it should work to connect this line to socket and make a bridge from neutral to earth. but its dangerous (can become dangerous) without using a residual current device.



> I only have one 15A circuit in my garage and a dual 20A dryer outlet, how can i power the most watts without rewiring. I guess I could get correct 240v cords for my ballasts, and then i could get a dryer outlet Y. I'm thinkin that may be the safest bet?


you can put maximum 6050W on these socket: 1650W on 110V and 4400W on 220V.


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## B2GROW (Aug 4, 2010)

Sorry if this has been asked already... In the future, I'd like to run 2x1000w lamps from a single (most likely) 15a circuit. I've been looking at some plug in step up transformers that'll take me from 110/120 to 220/240. Is this an acceptable way to get more amps out of my circuit? It looks like these units just plug right into the socket. 

Cheers


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## lahierba (Aug 5, 2010)

you can always get the same power. if you have 110V/15A you can get maximum 110*15=1650W. it doenst matter if you transform it to 220V (7,5A) or 1000,000V (1.65mA). youll always get these 1650W because wattage in = wattage out.


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## HowzerMD (Aug 5, 2010)

Hey electrician. Quick question : what's the real deal on Lumatek's "Super Lumen Switch"? I've searched around the net, and lumatek doesn't even have much to say at all.As a matter of fact, they don't really have much detailed info about any of their products. I've always used regular ol magnetic ballasts and I'm beginning to think I wasted my money investing in digital technology recently.


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## ChronicTron (Aug 5, 2010)

Question for ya Brick, I have NMB (612KL-04W-B66) 92x32mm cooling fan 3-pin connector D1598 , and want to wire them both through USB for intake and exhaust how would one go about such a task? Teach me oh wise one...*
*


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## B2GROW (Aug 5, 2010)

lahierba said:


> you can always get the same power. if you have 110V/15A you can get maximum 110*15=1650W. it doenst matter if you transform it to 220V (7,5A) or 1000,000V (1.65mA). youll always get these 1650W because wattage in = wattage out.


 I understad that the wattage will be the same, but since there is a step up in voltage AFTER the outlet, my equipment will draw half the amperes, correct? So instead of a single 1000w @ 110/120/(9A) it would be 2X1000 @ 240v drawing Approx. 4.5A each. Am I off base? I do see what you're saying about the ratio of total power being the same, but my issue is keeping the amps low so I don't trip breakers. The issue here is, the original circuit was designed to draw around 1700W as you stated. With the transformer, I'll be able to use about 2100W. There in lies my question. Is this safe?


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 6, 2010)

lahierba said:


> you can always get the same power. if you have 110V/15A you can get maximum 110*15=1650W. it doenst matter if you transform it to 220V (7,5A) or 1000,000V (1.65mA). youll always get these 1650W because wattage in = wattage out.


*ONLY* if your transformer is running at 100% efficiency, which is impossible at this point in time. If that xformer gets warm/hot, its wasting power.


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 6, 2010)

B2GROW said:


> I understad that the wattage will be the same, but since there is a step up in voltage AFTER the outlet, my equipment will draw half the amperes, correct? So instead of a single 1000w @ 110/120/(9A) it would be 2X1000 @ 240v drawing Approx. 4.5A each. Am I off base? I do see what you're saying about the ratio of total power being the same, but my issue is keeping the amps low so I don't trip breakers. The issue here is, the original circuit was designed to draw around 1700W as you stated. With the transformer, I'll be able to use about 2100W. There in lies my question. Is this safe?


The step up will draw twice the amps it putting out. Like he said, watts is watts. The amps *after* the step up will be halved, but will be doubled before it.

Using the step up will actually cause you to use *more* power from the wall. The transformation isn't power-free.


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## B2GROW (Aug 6, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> The step up will draw twice the amps it putting out. Like he said, watts is watts. The amps *after* the step up will be halved, but will be doubled before it.
> 
> Using the step up will actually cause you to use *more* power from the wall. The transformation isn't power-free.


Got it. Looks like I just have to run a line from the 220 outlet. Thanks.


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## whitetiger (Aug 7, 2010)

Can anyone Help me with wiring my CFL's?

The sockets i'm using have a silver and bronze screw on one side and two bronze on the other side of the socket (see attached diagram) . I'm trying to wire it to some 16/2 lamp wire and plug and from what i understand the two bronze on the right side are hot , the silver screws on the left is neuatral but idk what the other bronze one on the left is. So with only having two wire idk what ones screws to use.


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## 1mikej (Aug 7, 2010)

im not sure but usually you have the hot lead, the ground lead and a nuetral lead. white is hot, black is nuetral and green is ground. the green is not needed its for safty more the function


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## IAm5toned (Aug 8, 2010)

lahierba said:


> its higher electrotechnics. but i can tell you if you have a two phase system, the voltage between two lines is (voltage to earth)*sqareroot of 3.
> so if you have 220V between two lines youll get 220V/1,73=127,17V. if you want to be really safe buy equipment from europe. it runs on 220V to 240V.
> 
> 
> ...


*are you, lahierba, fucking insane?*

european power distribution runs @ 50hz

north american voltage runs @ 60hz

you would have people burning down there houses and potentially causing great amounts of damage, personal injury, and loss of life?

have you ever seen what happens when you put 50hz equipment on 60hz voltage, or vice versa? theres a fucking explosion....................................


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## Mongobud (Aug 9, 2010)

...the bastard electric company just installed a smart meter at my place....Will my 1000w Lumatek put off RF interference and disrupt the new meter? ..do I need to build a faraday cage?


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## IAm5toned (Aug 9, 2010)

you only need a faraday device if your ballast is magnetic, and unsheilded (exposed ballast, no metal case)


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## jogameagua (Aug 9, 2010)

hello man, how are you?

sorry to boring you but, can you tell me if i really need to usa a ballast for a 250w HPS lamp what does it do properly.. the ballast.

thank you, wait for repply.

jogameagua


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## glassblower209 (Aug 10, 2010)

I'd like to ask a couple questions. So I am setting up a grow in my shed which I am going to have to power. I'd like to know the steps I need to take to run from my fuse box to my shed, to support 4 1000w lights and balasts, an a/c unit, water and air pumps, and vortex fans, and maby lights t5's for a cloning station. Every thing is 110, not sure it makes a difference. Any input is greatly apreciated and thanks for your time.


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## JohnnyGreenthumb (Aug 10, 2010)

Need advice on wiring 4 240v outlets from my single 240v 30a. I need 4 240 outlet , here is pic
View attachment 1090480


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## JohnnyGreenthumb (Aug 10, 2010)

View attachment 1090481View attachment 1090480


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## jumboSWISHER (Aug 11, 2010)

heyy everybody, i gotta question tht doesnt necessarily pertain to the grow room.. 
but figure somebody lurking here might be able to help.
my computer crashed a while back, just got my hands on an old windows 98. but i want to upload pics of my ladies =) but no usb ports on this old junker.... haha
is there any way to put a usb port in a computer this old? or is there some gadget to put a memory card in a floppy disk and do it that way?
any opinons would help alot!! im no computer wiz, well frankly im lucky i got it setup and connected to the internet haha
peace out


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## sheeta (Aug 11, 2010)

hey i have a dumb qestion i think. if i am using a regualr standard 100w bulb and i want to know would that wattage be ok for a fairly small grow box. also i have a little fan. do i have sufficiet supplies for m grow box


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## Devlove (Aug 11, 2010)

How would/should I go about finding/asking an electrician to set up a room with 240 outlets?


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## glassblower209 (Aug 11, 2010)

Yeah I have an extra card in my comp for extra usb's. go by best buy and grab a card to plug into the back into the board. its hella easy


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## IAm5toned (Aug 11, 2010)

sheeta said:


> hey i have a dumb qestion i think. if i am using a regualr standard 100w bulb and i want to know would that wattage be ok for a fairly small grow box. also i have a little fan. do i have sufficiet supplies for m grow box


if your using a standard 100w bulb, then you do not have sufficient supplies to grow catnip, never mind a flowering marijuana plant.


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## JohnnyGreenthumb (Aug 12, 2010)

sheeta said:


> hey i have a dumb qestion i think. if i am using a regualr standard 100w bulb and i want to know would that wattage be ok for a fairly small grow box. also i have a little fan. do i have sufficiet supplies for m grow box


yes you can.find a used or new usb card for the back of your pc.where your ethernet card,video card plugs into ect aka front side bus.should be cheap like $5 used


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## jumboSWISHER (Aug 12, 2010)

glassblower209 said:


> Yeah I have an extra card in my comp for extra usb's. go by best buy and grab a card to plug into the back into the board. its hella easy





JohnnyGreenthumb said:


> yes you can.find a used or new usb card for the back of your pc.where your ethernet card,video card plugs into ect aka front side bus.should be cheap like $5 used


thanks bros!! but i found out this comp is a BIOS V.4.5 soooo gotta download sum crazy driver or sumthin? but found at wal mart a usb to 9 prong plugin adapter for $11 tht comes with the usb 2.0 disk=)


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## Corrupted Nutsack (Aug 12, 2010)

240? Is this a hotel?


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## JohnnyGreenthumb (Aug 12, 2010)

so you need to update your Motherboard bios. you can find direction on net to do.it will make a better diff in most cases.


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## amnbannert (Aug 12, 2010)

I am attempting a series of grow boxes using cfls from veg all the way to flower and want to use about 32 26w cfls. I want to wire them 4 to a fixture and two fixtures to each grow box. Going ghetto tech with y adapters off of shop clamp lamps. Is it safe? Is it possible ,or better yet probable to wire 8 26w cfl to one wall socket (208w to one socket)? I plan on running each socket through its own battery backed up surge protector (ya know cali brown outs). And what is the process to wire all the lights together for each box so I can run them through one timer. And can I run 832w through one breaker. nothing else will be on this breaker. I figure most refridgerators run on about 800 w. Half of the day the breaker will only be using 416w (when only veg boxes are on) and then 12 hours a day will be running at 832w. I know very little about rigging up lights myself. I always had a ballast and a hps system with just plug in and go. I dont know if ampage for these is the real prob or what probs I may face attempting this. Trying to get more tech under my belt. Any help or suggestions or even a point in the right direction would be appreciated.
Thanks to all!
I have a joournal I am doing for this project and will post pics and troubles I run into along the way for others to learn from my mistakes. Come by and give me advice and suggestions whenever you can!

P.S. What is the best way to attempt the lighting on this project(wiring and managing all of these wires into one cord coming out of the back of the fridge). I figure I will utilize an an extension cord for each box. just cut off the female and have all of the light hardwired into the box.


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## LBCengineer (Aug 12, 2010)

amnbannert said:


> Is it possible ,or better yet probable to wire 8 26w cfl to one wall socket (208w to one socket)? And what is the process to wire all the lights together for each box so I can run them through one timer. And can I run 832w through one breaker. nothing else will be on this breaker. I figure most refridgerators run on about 800 w. Half of the day the breaker will only be using 416w (when only veg boxes are on) and then 12 hours a day will be running at 832w. I know very little about rigging up lights myself. I always had a ballast and a hps system with just plug in and go. I dont know if ampage for these is the real prob or what probs I may face attempting this. Trying to get more tech under my belt. Any help or suggestions or even a point in the right direction would be appreciated.
> Thanks to all!
> I have a joournal I am doing for this project and will post pics and troubles I run into along the way for others to learn from my mistakes. Come by and give me advice and suggestions whenever you can!


 
208 w to one socket is no problem at all, that will only pull about 1.5 amps, and most wall sockets will be rated at either fifteen or twenty amps. as far as the breaker question, it really depends on what size the breaker is, but most likely it is either a fifteen or twenty amp breaker, in either case 832w will only pull about 7 amps assuming you are on 120v. You could even run this load (832w) on a 10A breaker, assuming the load wasn't super far from the breaker, therefore having to take voltage drop into consideration.


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## amnbannert (Aug 12, 2010)

That is awesome news for me! I can go bigger then. I would like 300w per box and I will try to do that. 300w of CFL= roughly 1200w conventional light. should produce some nice tight potent buds and hopefull increase yield as well although that is my second concern after quality. Also where can I find electrical air tight vent shutters that I can set on a timer to push air through my grow boxes while keeping optimum CO2 levels? Cheaper is better and I prefer to go to a store where UI can pay cash rather than paying online.


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## paidtoargue (Aug 21, 2010)

Brick, you are doing a good thing here. Thank you. 

Scenario: Six dedicated 20 amp circuits. 4 1000 watt, 2 600 watt, and related items.
Each 1000 watt light can be connected to a separate dedicated 20 amp circuit. Extension cords of 25 ft or less will be required for those, and a power strip for the related items. What should the specs be on the extension cords and power strip? Any suggested configuration? It seems that a 20 amp extension cord can not be used with the 15 amp cords as the latter does not have the right angle blade of the receptacle on the 20 amp extension cord. As you can see, I know barely enough to be dangerous. Thanks in advance.


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## coben (Aug 22, 2010)

CAN I Build the "$80 30 amp timer box with 3 wire dryer cord" with a 4 wire cord this set me back a day let me know and im off to the store.


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## lonleysmoka (Aug 22, 2010)

I have a question... I just bought an inline duct fan that has to be wired to a male end of a socket. Where would I find a cord that would fit those 3 wires and how would I know? The inline fan has white, black, and yellow/green wires..... its for my exhaust I need to put it up already but dont want to until I have the fan running. Please help me out here. 

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?jspStoreDir=hdus&catalogId=10053&productId=100067594&navFlow=3&keyword=6"+inline+ducting+fan&langId=-1&searchRedirect=6"+inline+ducting+fan&storeId=10051&endecaDa[email protected]5dff8a1e&ddkey=THDStoreFinder


thats the fan there


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## oAUSTiNo (Aug 22, 2010)

i baught a 100w hps light and a 100w ballast. idk the ballast wasnt gonna come put together... so where do i start hooking this up??? ive been looking up diagrams for wiring and everything, but what all should i buy to put it together?

thanks


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## spanishmainly (Aug 23, 2010)

How do you make a high temperature cut out switch? 
I live in Europe and can't locate one to purchase. If my power goes out and comes back on in my sealed room I'll have lights on with no AC, and that would be lethal.


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 23, 2010)

Black is hot (120VAC, white is neutral (0V) and the green is ground. Mixing the black and white to the motor would be ok. 



lonleysmoka said:


> I have a question... I just bought an inline duct fan that has to be wired to a male end of a socket. Where would I find a cord that would fit those 3 wires and how would I know? The inline fan has white, black, and yellow/green wires..... its for my exhaust I need to put it up already but dont want to until I have the fan running. Please help me out here.
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?jspStoreDir=hdus&catalogId=10053&productId=100067594&navFlow=3&keyword=6"+inline+ducting+fan&langId=-1&searchRedirect=6"+inline+ducting+fan&storeId=10051&endecaDa[email protected]5dff8a1e&ddkey=THDStoreFinder
> 
> ...


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 23, 2010)

spanishmainly said:


> How do you make a high temperature cut out switch?
> I live in Europe and can't locate one to purchase. If my power goes out and comes back on in my sealed room I'll have lights on with no AC, and that would be lethal.


Why won't the AC come back on?

Should be able to get a termo switch from Newark or digikey, both have distribution centers in the UK. then use it to fire a relay that runs the lights.


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## lonleysmoka (Aug 23, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Black is hot (120VAC, white is neutral (0V) and the green is ground. Mixing the black and white to the motor would be ok.


Thanks. I got it running just fine now to put it up and be done with it!


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## powerslide (Aug 23, 2010)

this might not really be Electrical related... but maybe you can help you answered a couple of my other questions. 

I have a 7000 portable a/c unit. i only have one hole in and one hole out for air. i need to add some inline odor control(carbon filter). knowing it will be rough on my a/c unit to exhaust through this i want to throw in a inline fan. But i think i need to be pretty close to the same CFM's as the a/c unit. 

Now thats been said how many CFM's do most 7000 portable generators produce? would it be bad to run a bigger CFM fan than whats on the a/c unit? Will it hurt the a/c unit if it keeps running when the a/c unit kicks off?


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## bickeybammer (Aug 26, 2010)

so i am running a 1000watt hps for flower and am using a extension cord (12g) (25ft) to run the light from another room. because i have my potable ac unit (550 watts), 1 (600 cfm fan), 2 (220 cfm fans), 5 air pumps and water pums, and 125 watt light for vegging, mothers ect. in the room i use for growing and if i plug the 1000 watt in there the breaker pops. i have a 600 watt ballast and light i want to hook up for vegging and another 1000 watt for flower that i want to hook up.. how can i safely run these with all the power im pulling right now..? do i have to pull power from another part of the house? i havent hooked the 600 watt up yet because i dont want it to trip the breaker


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## HFXGrow (Aug 27, 2010)

Hey im new just a quick question. i have a stove plug in my future grow space and was wondering if i could turn it into regular plugs so it would be usefull. can i do this? thanks


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## MI6 (Aug 28, 2010)

hi man, hey i have a quest. how many amps can i put in an 8awg caliber cable??? if i have 2 cables (220) how many 1000 lights can i haver working at same time??


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## MI6 (Aug 28, 2010)

Hey i will also apreciate if you can help me with my tread here's the link below..
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/362023-question-difference-btwn-hps-magnetic.html


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## DankBudzzz (Aug 28, 2010)

Hey guys,

I'm just starting my second grow and I'm wondering about running a 1000 watt hps and 400 watt hps along with fans and timers...

Im going to have to use an extension cord plugged into a power bar. (120V outlet). I'm worried having that many watts plugged in at once in the same power bar is a hazard. Can anyone help me out?


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## Danielsgb (Aug 28, 2010)

DankBudzzz said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm just starting my second grow and I'm wondering about running a 1000 watt hps and 400 watt hps along with fans and timers...
> 
> Im going to have to use an extension cord plugged into a power bar. (120V outlet). I'm worried having that many watts plugged in at once in the same power bar is a hazard. Can anyone help me out?


IAm5toned has a list of brreaker's and the Watts that is safe a ways back. Add all the Watts together and list them. It'll help these guys tell you. Seems like a lot to me, but I only get some of this. I think you need the heavest cord for one thing. And it's distance matters, so add that for them. Maybe 2 cords are needed. Ballasts are over the W, like a 400W HPS uses 440 or 430 for example too. Hope this helps you a bit further till one of these pro's can get a full explanation.


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## KrAzY80 (Aug 28, 2010)

I have a good one for you.

I have a 600w Hps and digital ballast going in a 4x4x8 sealed by me room. I divided this out of a larger room so on the other side of the room is another room about 3x3x6. 

So I was thinking hey I could Use one ballast for 2 lights and just run them 12hours on one room and the other 12hrs in the other room.
To do this I would need to install 2 timers, one between each light and the ballast right.

Question: Is there a timer that I could use to wire between the ballast and light that could withstand the output of the ballast.

If so you could get optimum use from your ballast. I want to do one soil and one hydro setup at the same time.


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## Danielsgb (Aug 28, 2010)

I've seen the answer to this. I think it was cheaper to buy another Ballast. It wouldn't be a timer before the bulb. It would turn off the Ballast, then it switches to the other Bulb, then re-starts the Ballast. Just thinking it would be cheaper to buy 1 more ballast.


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## oJUICEBOXo (Aug 28, 2010)

Hey my grow room has been running for a few months now with no problems, but the other day my girlfriend was vacuuming in the room next to it and blew the fuse. Now when I go to the garage to reset the fuse it wont hold. Any ideas? I got it to reset, but I had to run an extension cord from my bedroom into the grow room to share the electrical load just so the fuse doesn't trip again. I want to get rid of the extension cord though and have it running like it used to. HELP PLEASE!


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## KrAzY80 (Aug 28, 2010)

Well it sounds like your breaker is weak. Probably from maxing it out . I would replace the breaker and see if it helps. If not you just have 2 much load on the circuit.
By the way I am a HVAC Tech so I have a fair understanding of electrical and ventilation.

Oh and the ballast topic I had seen that post somewhere to. Its some kind of switching unit for a 120 bucks I think. Just wondered if their was a way around that with some crafty engineering.


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## IAm5toned (Aug 28, 2010)

oJUICEBOXo said:


> Hey my grow room has been running for a few months now with no problems, but the other day my girlfriend was vacuuming in the room next to it and blew the fuse. Now when I go to the garage to reset the fuse it wont hold. Any ideas? I got it to reset, but I had to run an extension cord from my bedroom into the grow room to share the electrical load just so the fuse doesn't trip again. I want to get rid of the extension cord though and have it running like it used to. HELP PLEASE!


weak breaker.....

some advice?
replace it with an HACR rated breaker..... HACR means Heating, A/C, and Refrigeration. In other words, its rated for the inductive loads that ballasts and motors provide...
just make for sure you replace the breaker with one of an equal OR LESSER amperage of the original breaker... never bigger.

peace


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## IAm5toned (Aug 28, 2010)

you guys dont want to fuck with running two lamps off of one ballst. daniels is correct in saying that is is cheaper and easier to run 2 ballastsa on opposite schedules of 12/12, then use t5's on 24/7 in a seperate veg chamber.

not saying that it cant be done, but to do it RIGHT, your going to spend closer to 1200, instead of 120...


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 29, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> IAm5toned has a list of brreaker's and the Watts that is safe a ways back. Add all the Watts together and list them. It'll help these guys tell you. Seems like a lot to me, but I only get some of this. I think you need the heavest cord for one thing. And it's distance matters, so add that for them. Maybe 2 cords are needed. Ballasts are over the W, like a 400W HPS uses 440 or 430 for example too. Hope this helps you a bit further till one of these pro's can get a full explanation.


Adding all the watts is semi-ok. For ballasted lights (HPS/MH) the wattage is for the bulb *only* the ballast itself will use an additional 10-15%


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 29, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> you guys dont want to fuck with running two lamps off of one ballst. daniels is correct in saying that is is cheaper and easier to run 2 ballastsa on opposite schedules of 12/12, then use t5's on 24/7 in a seperate veg chamber.
> 
> not saying that it cant be done, but to do it RIGHT, your going to spend closer to 1200, instead of 120...


Yeppers. The part that scares me a bit about it, is the HV starting spike on the HPS.
MH shouldn't be a prob, but don't see a reason to do it with MH (unless they start making a 36 hour day  )

But if I were to do it via relays. I'd have the system, turn off the ballast, flip the relay then restart the ballast. That _should_ help keep the contacts happier longer. I would even add a 15 min cool down between cycles.

(oh thanks for the HCAR breaker tip. That probably explains why I used to trip breakers on start up with my compressor in the last house)


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## researchkitty (Aug 31, 2010)

Ok guys, I have one for you. How about two Honda EU3000isA generators, with the connection cable, output about 56.6 amps max power (60 amps peak). This is the generator:

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=modeldetail&section=P2GG&modelname=EU3000IS&modelid=EU3000ISAN

So I'm planning to get two of these, hook them together, and when they are hooked together, the main power outlet looks like this:







Now, my question is, how is the most cost effective and safe way of getting power from that outlet to the flowering room and plug into something that will provide 6 or 7 outlets so I can plug in 4 lights and then some accessories?

Generator----> Power box that has a 50amp circuit on it with some weird box --> ???????? --> 4 ballasts --> 4 lights --> weed --> higggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Generator--^

So what goes where the ????'s are?  The generators are only about 25 feet away from the ballast locations.


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## vairocks (Aug 31, 2010)

seems gud to me....added to my future list...


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## sweetsmell (Aug 31, 2010)

The black wire means ground right? I mean my car battery is like that and I hooked up my self made ballast like that and it caught on fire when I plugged it in. 













LOL 





I'm kidding! But thanks for helping out those who need it. bump to the top


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## IAm5toned (Aug 31, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> Ok guys, I have one for you. How about two Honda EU3000isA generators, with the connection cable, output about 56.6 amps max power (60 amps peak). This is the generator:
> 
> http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=modeldetail&section=P2GG&modelname=EU3000IS&modelid=EU3000ISAN
> 
> ...


your going to need a qualified professional. bonding two generators together is tricky at best....

before you can determine the cheapest and easiset way to run this power into the growroom, we need to know your power requirements, that is, your _full load amperage_
or,_ your power demand factor._ in laymans terms, we need to know exactly how many amps, and/or watts of everything you plan on having connected to the generator setups.
only knowing this, can i compute the proper conductor size and service equipment. that 50 amp power box may or may not be big enough for what you want...... theres no way to tell w/out more info, im afraid.


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## researchkitty (Aug 31, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> your going to need a qualified professional. bonding two generators together is tricky at best....
> 
> before you can determine the cheapest and easiset way to run this power into the growroom, we need to know your power requirements, that is, your _full load amperage_
> or,_ your power demand factor._ in laymans terms, we need to know exactly how many amps, and/or watts of everything you plan on having connected to the generator setups.
> only knowing this, can i compute the proper conductor size and service equipment. that 50 amp power box may or may not be big enough for what you want...... theres no way to tell w/out more info, im afraid.


You misunderstood the post or read it too fast. "Boding the generators" as you call it isnt hard nor requires a professional. there's two plugs on each gen, you plug the kit into there and then it has a RV outlet with a built in 50 amp circuit. Its so easy it takes 1 paragraph of the owners manual to explain it. These generators were designed to be run in parallel by Honda. I guess that's why I posted the link to their specs? :< :<

My question isnt how to connect two generators, Honda makes that simple. I also know how to count amps, so it isnt a question of it if will work. Its ONLy this question: How to get the 50 amps of power thats sitting at the outlet in the pic above TO the flower room, and then to 120v AC outlet plugs that a standard ballast can plug into. The outlet in that picture is said to be RV 120v/ac.

Thanks


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## BlazedMonkey (Aug 31, 2010)

Hey all quick simple fan question

I have a power adapter (old cell phone i think?) where i stripped the wires and wired it to my fans.

It says "OUTPUT: 12V AC 600mA"
Now to my understanding this is 12 volts AC power at 600 milliamps ?
Which i thought it would be dc? 

Fans are "DC12V .23A"
Which i understand is 12V DC power at 230 milliamps?

Anyway the fans are working but are not spinning very fast/strong. 
I guess any suggestions at making them faster/better (if possible) and possible explanation of the whole DC/AC thing (i thought it wouldnt work if its AC and needs to be DC)

Thanks!


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## curseddice (Sep 1, 2010)

Quick question. I was planning on running 4 600W Lights in a 8x8 room. I read in this thread that most house breakers max at 1800 Watts. So I need to get power into that room from a different breaker.

The room NEXT to the grow room is on a different breaker. Would it be a matter of drilling a small hole through the wall and putting and extension cord through the wall? How many Watts can an extension cord handle? How many feet can an extension cord run to get power into a room from a different breaker?

Thanks!


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## researchkitty (Sep 1, 2010)

curseddice said:


> Quick question. I was planning on running 4 600W Lights in a 8x8 room. I read in this thread that most house breakers max at 1800 Watts. So I need to get power into that room from a different breaker.
> 
> The room NEXT to the grow room is on a different breaker. Would it be a matter of drilling a small hole through the wall and putting and extension cord through the wall? How many Watts can an extension cord handle? How many feet can an extension cord run to get power into a room from a different breaker?


Right now that's what I do for 6,000w of lights. I have to run power from 6 rooms in the house via long extension cords.  As long as the extension cord is rated to carry the amp load, it will be fine.


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## stoney917 (Sep 3, 2010)

whats up iamstoned im curious as if this will be practical for me to do to save some cash using what i have layin around? im happen to have a few miles of 12-2 wire and all the circuitry to go with it 20amp outlets and 20 amp breakers. 1900 boxes and connectors. everything i need to run 20amp circuits. i plan on runnin 2k maybe addin an extra 600 or 1k later on and want to know if it is beneficial for me to run 4 or 5 20amp homeruns or just go pick up some 10-3 and a 30amp breaker and tap off of it? will it be worth it i know i can run a bunch or seperate circuits but am unsure if this even makes sense since i have all the material to make multiple circuits and i would have spares to turn use as i add to the room. that will have nothin on them.
peace stone


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## Bosejammin (Sep 3, 2010)

Ok, I got a question, at what wattage does con ed or anyone else start wondering whats going on at that particular residence? What about using a propane tank to manage lights? is it possible?


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 4, 2010)

BlazedMonkey said:


> Hey all quick simple fan question
> 
> I have a power adapter (old cell phone i think?) where i stripped the wires and wired it to my fans.
> 
> ...


The power adapter is AC if it says its AC. You can make it an *unregulated* DC source with a simple bridge rectifier from radio shack. Adding in a cap to shoothout the *nasty* ripple it will have would be a good idea too.

Its probably working because of the fan's circuitry. If its a PC style fan, its brushless, so it will do some of the rectifying, though poorly.


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 4, 2010)

Bosejammin said:


> Ok, I got a question, at what wattage does con ed or anyone else start wondering whats going on at that particular residence? What about using a propane tank to manage lights? is it possible?


well, you just gave your location sorta 

But its not a set wattage that would trip them off, its the percentage of a sustained jump in the billing. And its *very* unlikely you will get popped just from the elec bill. Someone usually opens their mouth (the grower!) Or just flat out stupidity.


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## Fight4urRight (Sep 4, 2010)

I have one flower room "A" with 3 600w HPS on from 7pm to 7am. I want to add flower room "B" with the lights on 7am to 7pm. I want the lights in both rooms to be controlled by one ballast. How do I accomplish this? I know there are devices out there but they are expensive. What are they called? Can build my own?

Thanks


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## DawgMountain (Sep 4, 2010)

Fight4urRight said:


> I have one flower room "A" with 3 600w HPS on from 7pm to 7am. I want to add flower room "B" with the lights on 7am to 7pm. I want the lights in both rooms to be controlled by one ballast. How do I accomplish this? I know there are devices out there but they are expensive. What are they called? Can build my own?
> 
> Thanks


Subscribing to see the answer to that one.


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## Fight4urRight (Sep 4, 2010)

found something called a flip flop relay

http://www.progressive-growth.com/proddetail.php?prod=43015

http://www.horticontrol.com/store.html

how do I build these?


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## Danielsgb (Sep 4, 2010)

They just posted about this.



Fight4urRight said:


> I have one flower room "A" with 3 600w HPS on from 7pm to 7am. I want to add flower room "B" with the lights on 7am to 7pm. I want the lights in both rooms to be controlled by one ballast. How do I accomplish this? I know there are devices out there but they are expensive. What are they called? Can build my own?
> 
> Thanks


Hope that helps. Daniels







IAm5toned said:


> you guys dont want to fuck with running two lamps off of one ballst. daniels is correct in saying that is is cheaper and easier to run 2 ballastsa on opposite schedules of 12/12, then use t5's on 24/7 in a seperate veg chamber.
> 
> not saying that it cant be done, but to do it RIGHT, your going to spend closer to 1200, instead of 120...





BigBudBalls said:


> Yeppers. The part that scares me a bit about it, is the HV starting spike on the HPS.
> MH shouldn't be a prob, but don't see a reason to do it with MH (unless they start making a 36 hour day  )
> 
> But if I were to do it via relays. I'd have the system, turn off the ballast, flip the relay then restart the ballast. That _should_ help keep the contacts happier longer. I would even add a 15 min cool down between cycles.
> ...


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## just L (Sep 5, 2010)

Quick question. i have 125 amp main panel, does that mean that my circuit breakers can only add up to 125? if they total up at 140 is that bad?


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## NathSpoon (Sep 5, 2010)

Hi guys. I'm pretty new to these forums, though I've been browsing them a while.

Anyways, so here's my problem - I bought the 4' RVK fan and discovered it came without the power cable, when I hooked it up it blew at the terminal box. I think the wires must've touch or something. So i fixed it and it's working but the terminal block where I wire in the power cord is a bit black now. Will this be ok to use or should I replace it?


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## iluv r3dtub3 (Sep 5, 2010)

i got a 300w hood and i was going to use a y split then another y split in the other to get 3 cfls going at once is that a fire hazard?


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## Quisp (Sep 6, 2010)

I have some questions. How often do I need to turn the inline fans with filters on to refresh the air in a 4x4 area? 
I heard it was every three minutes. If that's true, what would turn the fans on every three minutes for one minute
then off again for a twelve hour cycle?


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## IAm5toned (Sep 6, 2010)

stoney917 said:


> whats up iamstoned im curious as if this will be practical for me to do to save some cash using what i have layin around? im happen to have a few miles of 12-2 wire and all the circuitry to go with it 20amp outlets and 20 amp breakers. 1900 boxes and connectors. everything i need to run 20amp circuits. i plan on runnin 2k maybe addin an extra 600 or 1k later on and want to know if it is beneficial for me to run 4 or 5 20amp homeruns or just go pick up some 10-3 and a 30amp breaker and tap off of it? will it be worth it i know i can run a bunch or seperate circuits but am unsure if this even makes sense since i have all the material to make multiple circuits and i would have spares to turn use as i add to the room. that will have nothin on them.
> peace stone


1900's.. WOW i havent heard that term in at least a decade lol... they call em 4squares in this part of the country.

man, its ALWAYS better to have multiple runs vs One Big Run when dealing with HID lighting

since you have all that stuff lying around, i also suggest this- get a 100 amp lighting contactor, and switch the whole subpanel.... instead of trying to make a dozen timers work with each other


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## IAm5toned (Sep 6, 2010)

just L said:


> Quick question. i have 125 amp main panel, does that mean that my circuit breakers can only add up to 125? if they total up at 140 is that bad?


 actually they can total out to about 270 amps, legally..... has to do with duty cycles. the only time the breakers in a panel will add up to the main breaker/panel rating is when your running nothing but definite purpose equipment... the only 2 peices of definite purpose equipment in your house is the water heater and the heating/ac. kitchen equipment also. but your fine man... you exceed 150 amps, your main breaker will kick, which is a pain in the ass, but all you do is reset it and punt


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## IAm5toned (Sep 6, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> You misunderstood the post or read it too fast. "Boding the generators" as you call it isnt hard nor requires a professional. there's two plugs on each gen, you plug the kit into there and then it has a RV outlet with a built in 50 amp circuit. Its so easy it takes 1 paragraph of the owners manual to explain it. These generators were designed to be run in parallel by Honda. I guess that's why I posted the link to their specs? :< :<
> 
> My question isnt how to connect two generators, Honda makes that simple. I also know how to count amps, so it isnt a question of it if will work. Its ONLy this question: How to get the 50 amps of power thats sitting at the outlet in the pic above TO the flower room, and then to 120v AC outlet plugs that a standard ballast can plug into. The outlet in that picture is said to be RV 120v/ac.
> 
> Thanks


ok smart ass... if you can tell me how easy and safe it is to bond 2 generators, then why do you need to know something as basic as running a distribution circuit 50 feet to a growroom?




ps- bonding the generators is the easy part... running the power from a _seperatly derived power system _into a structure with utility power, is very illegal unless its done a certain way... seperatly derived systems run @ opposite potential to line voltage... in other words, the ground on generator will be LIVE...

easy, huh... didnt tell you that in the specs i think not )


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## IAm5toned (Sep 6, 2010)

BlazedMonkey said:


> Hey all quick simple fan question
> 
> I have a power adapter (old cell phone i think?) where i stripped the wires and wired it to my fans.
> 
> ...


if there still spinning im surprised... a/c and d/c dont mix very well unless its the band


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## IAm5toned (Sep 6, 2010)

curseddice said:


> Quick question. I was planning on running 4 600W Lights in a 8x8 room. I read in this thread that most house breakers max at 1800 Watts. So I need to get power into that room from a different breaker.
> 
> The room NEXT to the grow room is on a different breaker. Would it be a matter of drilling a small hole through the wall and putting and extension cord through the wall? How many Watts can an extension cord handle? How many feet can an extension cord run to get power into a room from a different breaker?
> 
> Thanks!


cords, are a temporary fix to a permanent problem

read this post.. step by step how to tap into a plug on one side of the wall to the other

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/240481-bored-electrician-answer-your-questions.html#post3067225

^^^^^^^^^^click me^^^^^^^^^^^


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## IAm5toned (Sep 6, 2010)

Bosejammin said:


> Ok, I got a question, at what wattage does con ed or anyone else start wondering whats going on at that particular residence? What about using a propane tank to manage lights? is it possible?


its not the wattage, its more like pay your bill on time and dont try to run hot taps.....

i have no idea what your talking about using a propane tank to manage lights means. sounds like an explosion in the making to me


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## researchkitty (Sep 6, 2010)

Hey dickless (Yea, a girl just called you dickless)

Please stop replying to my posts. All you do is read the first sentence then write out a STUPID answer.

1.) How easy is it to link generators -- FUCKIN EASY. IF you followed the LINK I posted, you'd see the generators are DESIGNED to run in pairs and its as simple as connecting them together with a plug that Honda makes FOR DOING THIS. Instead, you didnt read it (TWICE) and just chose to call me a smart ass and laugh at me.

Then, you go on a rant about hooking up a generator to household lines at the same time, which isnt words you got from me.

2.) "running the power from a seperatly derived power system into a structure with utility power, is very illegal unless its done a certain way" -- No shit. However, that wasnt my question (you fucking fruitcake). My question was how to get that goofy looking receptacle into a room where its useable by a household 120v ac plug instead. I didnt ask to combine power of a generator with a home. I asked what type of cable it was that I would need and what type of box would be best to plugin the lights once they are tehre.

SO IAm5toned -- Learn to read before calling people smart asses

F
U
C
K

Y
O
U

THIS THREAD is for helping people with electrical issues. DONT BOTHER POSTING IN IT IF YOU ARE JUST GOING TO FLAME PEOPLE.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/181708-experienced-electrician-here-answer-any-59.html#post4582541

^^^^^^^^ That's the post if anyone who actually READS is interested in helping. =P

Thank you to everyone else in this thread, iAmstoned, you clearly see how I feel about you and your asswipe replies.




IAm5toned said:


> ok smart ass... if you can tell me how easy and safe it is to bond 2 generators, then why do you need to know something as basic as running a distribution circuit 50 feet to a growroom?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## IAm5toned (Sep 6, 2010)

oh go get some dick........

your the reason i take my valuable time to answer posts like this. you read a few pages of info and now your an engineer.
good luck with your project.
things you should consider-
#1 you can be banned for making personal attacks.
#2 im above that tho so i will even go as far as to say this-

make sure the frame of one generator is physically connected to the ground rod at the service disconnect. that is pretty critical.

and for the future, take a peice of plywood, get an rv receptacle, bolt it to it, then wire off of the rv receptacle to either a loadcenter or directly to outlets then. if it was me i would have a 60 amp load center so incase a fault condition occurred it trips the breakers in the house instead of taxing the generator. you can make your own generator cable pretty simple with range cable. you get it @ home depot or lowes... 6/6/6 with ground is what you need..... so fuck you to.


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## mugen.el (Sep 6, 2010)

Hi im mugen.el and i am just getting started.

I have 2 1000w hps lights, 1 vortex fan, a couple other fans, timers and everything already for growing other then a good electrical system, so how do i do this.

I have no idea where to start, please help me.


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## researchkitty (Sep 6, 2010)

Reading the instruction manual is hardly pretending to be an engineer. Its a product designed for people who need two of them on an RV to be able to do it. RV owners are generally old people. If old senior citizens can connect two generators with a $50 cable that only does exactly that made by the manufacturer and takes 3 seconds to do, then I am sure I can too. =P

You can be banned for being an idiot too, I'd rather be banned for standing up for others not being douchebags than be the ignorant person who lets your distraction go allowed.

More evidence you still didnt read anything, as theres a circuit breaker on the generators after they are combined on the same panel as the plug. Hell, you can see it in the photo which is zoomed in for you already in the original post. How good do you think your advice is, telling people to double up on something they already have? You've argued and put me down 3 times now and each time you mis speak entirely about the actual project or what it already has in it. Your such an idiot lol. So go get some dick back at ya, make sure you put em on all fours first. =P


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## BudReaky (Sep 7, 2010)

hey man.appreciate your hospitality but i have 1 quick question.i have a digital window ac unit without a timer (it has sleep mode but not timed on function)how can i make it to where the ac will kick on automatically when it recieves power?(like using standard wall outlet timer)


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## sweetsmell (Sep 7, 2010)

Bosejammin said:


> Ok, I got a question, at what wattage does con ed or anyone else start wondering whats going on at that particular residence? What about using a propane tank to manage lights? is it possible?



I found the answer to that question!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGlrobvb-ao


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 8, 2010)

Fight4urRight said:


> I have one flower room "A" with 3 600w HPS on from 7pm to 7am. I want to add flower room "B" with the lights on 7am to 7pm. I want the lights in both rooms to be controlled by one ballast. How do I accomplish this? I know there are devices out there but they are expensive. What are they called? Can build my own?
> 
> Thanks


Have a 1800watt ballast to run 3 600s???
Plus not going to be a safe set up. One bulb fails and I'd bet dollars to donuts the other two on that set will fail in seconds.

Spend the cash and do it right.


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## BudReaky (Sep 8, 2010)

spend money to make money.


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## upgrademejesse (Sep 8, 2010)

I need to run a sub panel from the main, what wire should be used and what amp breaker at the main box? 4 1000w hps plus all the extras....


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## researchkitty (Sep 8, 2010)

wish bricktop was here, pages of unhelped posts.......  Time for a new thread!


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## IAm5toned (Sep 10, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> Reading the instruction manual is hardly pretending to be an engineer. Its a product designed for people who need two of them on an RV to be able to do it. RV owners are generally old people. If old senior citizens can connect two generators with a $50 cable that only does exactly that made by the manufacturer and takes 3 seconds to do, then I am sure I can too. =P
> 
> You can be banned for being an idiot too, I'd rather be banned for standing up for others not being douchebags than be the ignorant person who lets your distraction go allowed.
> 
> More evidence you still didnt read anything, as theres a circuit breaker on the generators after they are combined on the same panel as the plug. Hell, you can see it in the photo which is zoomed in for you already in the original post. How good do you think your advice is, telling people to double up on something they already have? You've argued and put me down 3 times now and each time you mis speak entirely about the actual project or what it already has in it. Your such an idiot lol. So go get some dick back at ya, make sure you put em on all fours first. =P





you cant fix stupid, you can only send flowers to the funeral.

sorry you didnt get the answer YOU WANTED TO HEAR but personally, and i think i speak for most if not all of the electricians out there, its people like you that keep people like us off these forums. 
so you asked a question, and got an answer you didnt like from an accredited professional. so what do you do? turn to personal attacks... thats pretty helpful! would you go the the ER with a broken arm and insult the doc as he was setting the break? i think not...

why dont you try looking for your info somewhere else?

because i promise you wont find it here.
specially now.....


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## researchkitty (Sep 10, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> you cant fix stupid, you can only send flowers to the funeral.
> 
> sorry you didnt get the answer YOU WANTED TO HEAR but personally, and i think i speak for most if not all of the electricians out there, its people like you that keep people like us off these forums.
> so you asked a question, and got an answer you didnt like from an accredited professional. so what do you do? turn to personal attacks... thats pretty helpful! would you go the the ER with a broken arm and insult the doc as he was setting the break? i think not...
> ...


I asked a clear and concise question. Only you seem to think that you answered the post, however clearly in the wrong, three times, and the question still goes unanswered. It isnt like you ASSume (again) that I got answers I didnt like to hear, more like YOU didnt even try to answer the question, and nobody else with the answers has replied either. I didnt hear the right answer and just say "no, thats wrong" -- NOBODY has answered the actual questions yet. 

Quit being a flaming troll and either help out or get the fuck out of this thread. I'll continue to personally attack your dumb ass as long as you are an asshole to me and others here.

I hate people like you who post to keep your post count high. Post when its useful, funny, or actually useful. The last dozen replies here you barely even try to help people you just talk down to them with half information.

And you think I'm going to get what, ignored here by others because you think I'm mean to you? Waaaaaaaaaaah. Someones pussy hurts -- still -- and it aint mine.

The difference as you say between your help and a doctors help at an emergency room is that a DOCTOR would KNOW what to do. You still havent actually answered the questions, you just keep firing back with more flaming insults. Fuck you.


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## IAm5toned (Sep 10, 2010)

here's a thread full of flaming insults.
your not welcome there....

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/240481-bored-electrician-answer-your-questions.html

got a thousand or so 'flaming insults' there....
who is the troll?


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## Danielsgb (Sep 10, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> I asked a clear and concise question. Only you seem to think that you answered the post, however clearly in the wrong, three times, and the question still goes unanswered. It isnt like you ASSume (again) that I got answers I didnt like to hear, more like YOU didnt even try to answer the question, and nobody else with the answers has replied either. I didnt hear the right answer and just say "no, thats wrong" -- NOBODY has answered the actual questions yet.
> 
> I hate people like you who post to keep your post count high. Post when its useful, funny, or actually useful. The last dozen replies here you barely even try to help people you just talk down to them with half information.


Talk down to them? IAm5toned has helped me a TON. Even re-answering a couple times till I got it. I don't think he gives a flying fuck how high his post count is. For the record he has posted something useful for me on at least a dozen wiring projects I've done. I think many home fires have been avoided by his help.
Daniels


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## kane420x (Sep 12, 2010)

ok i have some electrical backround but i am having trouble lighting my cfl. I got a 65 watt cfl from home depot with the large base. i bought a mogul from an electrical supply house and had a heavy extension cord i cut off one end and wired the black and white wires to the mogul and left the ground off. it has a good conncetion but for some reason the damn thing wont light. any suggestions?


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## kane420x (Sep 12, 2010)

[QUOTE




Originally Posted by *Fight4urRight*  
I have one flower room "A" with 3 600w HPS on from 7pm to 7am. I want to add flower room "B" with the lights on 7am to 7pm. I want the lights in both rooms to be controlled by one ballast. How do I accomplish this? I know there are devices out there but they are expensive. What are they called? Can build my own?

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

to do this supply power to your ballast on a continious power supply, the wire coming out of the ballast you are going to splice in two wires with female plugs on the end of them. then connect two timers to the end of the female connectors you made. then connect two male cords or two male ends from the store to the cords going to your lights. make sure you set the timers a few minutes apart because you do no want to try and power all your light at any given time.
gl
gl


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## lowerarchy (Sep 12, 2010)

Hi everyone, massive thread here, good work. Also too much to look through to see if this question has already been answered. I've got a situation where I've got two 40 amp/240v circuits coming from two different main panels. Is it possible to connect them both to the hot bar on a separate 100amp subpanel?


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## HammerGrow (Sep 12, 2010)

Can I wire 2-12v MassCool computer fans, 1-120mm 1-80mm, to 1 12v cell phone charger for a pc grow? I'm getting both fans and will be setting it all up with a week or 2 and would like to know before i try it and it blows out. i know how it would have to be done, so its in a continuous flow on energy, buit im wondering, can i? without something getting blown out?


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## Danielsgb (Sep 12, 2010)

HammerGrow said:


> Can I wire 2-12v MassCool computer fans, 1-120mm 1-80mm, to 1 12v cell phone charger for a pc grow? I'm getting both fans and will be setting it all up with a week or 2 and would like to know before i try it and it blows out. i know how it would have to be done, so its in a continuous flow on energy, buit im wondering, can i? without something getting blown out?


Here's the answer from IAm5toned. Hope that helps you figure out if your power supply is good enough.
Daniels

[[on the fan, somewhere, on the fan, there will be a stamp, label, or embossed lettering that says the voltage, and the power consumption. looks like this-

12vdc 12w or 12vdc 500ma

what you need is the wattage, or milliamps of the fans.

add them all up (the wattage, or mA) , then multiply by 120%....

example-
3 fans, 500mA (6w)
500ma 
x 3 
1500ma 
x 120% 
1800mA

or-
6w
x 3
18w
x 120%
21.6 w

or-
.18 amps
x 3
.54
x 120%
.648 amps
your power supply, needs to be big enough for 1800mA, or, .648 amps @ 12vdc, or 21.6w @ 12vdc


just change the mA, or wattage, or amps, to match the power requirements of the fans you have.]]


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## jblaze80 (Sep 13, 2010)

Recently a ballast of mine took a nasty fall, and now I cannot get the thing to run for more than 20 minutes at a time. Trying to troubleshoot the problem, and was wondering what component should I replace first? Any advice would be appreciated. Thx! 
The ballast is a 1000w xtrasun convertable.


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## WWShadow (Sep 13, 2010)

kane420x said:


> ok i have some electrical backround but i am having trouble lighting my cfl. I got a 65 watt cfl from home depot with the large base. i bought a mogul from an electrical supply house and had a heavy extension cord i cut off one end and wired the black and white wires to the mogul and left the ground off. it has a good conncetion but for some reason the damn thing wont light. any suggestions?


I bought one of those 65watt (300 watt equivelant) but mine has a regular base, haven't seen any with a larger base


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## Danielsgb (Sep 13, 2010)

Dude, really? You asked a simple question, then answer one WAY more difficult. So what holds back the power within a timer? Have you tried it? Did you see the answer, then decide you knew better? This is how people cause FIRES.


kane420x said:


> [QUOTE
> 
> 
> 
> ...





kane420x said:


> [QUOTE
> to do this supply power to your ballast on a continious power supply, the wire coming out of the ballast you are going to splice in two wires with female plugs on the end of them. then connect two timers to the end of the female connectors you made. then connect two male cords or two male ends from the store to the cords going to your lights. make sure you set the timers a few minutes apart because you do no want to try and power all your light at any given time.
> gl
> gl


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## BusterBawls (Sep 13, 2010)

Quick question here for the expert. I have a growbright 120v-240v switchable ballast. The ballast has 2 plug ins. One 3 prong for 120v and a separate 3 prong for 220v. My question is, I am going to just cut the male end off the cord and install a 3 prong 220v end. I assume the wiring should be 2hots and a ground. I'm using the uk style plugs that have the horizontal fins. I assume one hot goes on each horizontal fin and the bare copper wire from the box should go to the ground pin on the plug. What do I do with the white common wire coming from the box. I have a 40amp 220v breaker from my box going into a sub box in my flower room. My sub box has a 30a 240v breaker and a 15a 120v breaker the wiring from the main box to the sub box is an 8awg 4 wire wire with the ground hooked up to the neutral bar. Would I be correct if I hooked my ballast up with the two hots on the horizontals and the bare copper to the 3rd pin, while the white wire is taped off?


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## BusterBawls (Sep 13, 2010)

Also, why not use the white(thicker) wire instead of the bare copper wire? I'm sure it doesn't really matter since they go to the same place, and it's just a ground. Does this mean that the ballast would theoretically work with just the 2 hots?


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## kane420x (Sep 13, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> Dude, really? You asked a simple question, then answer one WAY more difficult. So what holds back the power within a timer? Have you tried it? Did you see the answer, then decide you knew better? This is how people cause FIRES.


ah the same thing that holds back the power of all my lights going on... i thought that was an easier question then what i asked... it seemed pretty simple to me that the same timers i use to control all of the light in my room can handle the power of a single ballast!! really come on now...


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## stoney917 (Sep 13, 2010)

i pop in here from time to time and iam need s to pop up . dont use alum wire for a grow. just not worth it 
dude with the ballast get a meter wiring screwdriver if ya need em bp if possible but i would first check all connetions. then the coil. 
dude who cfl wont light up i just dont know. i dont see y ya would need a special socket for a 65cfl prob not makin contact try screwin the bulb into a reg light. 
kane aint catch the whole ting but how many ballasts u run of 1 timer. unless ur setup for it.


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## Danielsgb (Sep 13, 2010)

kane420x said:


> ah the same thing that holds back the power of all my lights going on... i thought that was an easier question then what i asked... it seemed pretty simple to me that the same timers i use to control all of the light in my room can handle the power of a single ballast!! really come on now...


Really, well you should try it with yours. A timer isn't made for that. A timer completes a connection, it isn't getting the full load continuously. Seriously try it. Seemed pretty simple, huh? A HID Ballast powering a 400W light is different than cfl. All your other lights don't use the 110V with a Ballast to light a bulb either. The wire from ballast to bulb is a continuous load. Don't you think if two $5 timers would do this, then tons of us would be running this way? Try it and see.


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 16, 2010)

HammerGrow said:


> Can I wire 2-12v MassCool computer fans, 1-120mm 1-80mm, to 1 12v cell phone charger for a pc grow? I'm getting both fans and will be setting it all up with a week or 2 and would like to know before i try it and it blows out. i know how it would have to be done, so its in a continuous flow on energy, buit im wondering, can i? without something getting blown out?


Where ya finding a 12VDC cell phone charger? 1980?

A wall wart no prob, but this MYTH of a 12volt cell charge has got to go!


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## kevindowling (Sep 16, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Where ya finding a 12VDC cell phone charger? 1980?
> 
> A wall wart no prob, but this MYTH of a 12volt cell charge has got to go!


Totally agree! I used the GameCube powersupply which runs on 12V and got 1A..

Btw, OP I got a question for you which I've been searching the web for like a machine..

Is it possible to hook up CFL lamps to a CPU Power supply? That would be super awesome to make it work.. Having a power supply run your whole grow


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## Danielsgb (Sep 16, 2010)

kevindowling said:


> Totally agree! I used the GameCube powersupply which runs on 12V and got 1A..
> 
> Btw, OP I got a question for you which I've been searching the web for like a machine..
> 
> Is it possible to hook up CFL lamps to a CPU Power supply? That would be super awesome to make it work.. Having a power supply run your whole grow


I know it's possible. I'll have to look for a DIY with one. I think I know of a guy using one. I'll PM him. I'll look for one and see the Amps for it.


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## Danielsgb (Sep 16, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> I know it's possible. I'll have to look for a DIY with one. I think I know of a guy using one. I'll PM him. I'll look for one and see the Amps for it.


Cfl's are 110V not 12V, so I was wrong. My bad


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## itylercar (Sep 17, 2010)

why do i need a ballast to use HID lighting? why can't i just put it in a regular light socket? is it the extreme wattage used by the bulbs?


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## lowerarchy (Sep 19, 2010)

itylercar said:


> why do i need a ballast to use HID lighting? why can't i just put it in a regular light socket? is it the extreme wattage used by the bulbs?


No, it's the voltage. The ballast incorporates a transformer that kicks the 120/240V (or whatever you've got it set up for) into a higher voltage. I don't know what would happen if you wired a HID socket right to the mains but it would almost certainly be bad.

* And now for something completely different:*

I've got a situation where I've got two 40 amp/240v circuits coming from two different main panels. Is it possible to safely connect them both to the hot bar on a separate 100amp subpanel? I'd like to get two 20A/240V circuits and two 20A/120V circuits and would prefer not to buy another panel because I'm cheap. No room in the two main panels to do that I'm afraid. Cheers and thanks for any replies.

*EDIT:* Never mind, I'm pretty thick. Found out the answer to my own question at ICmag. If one panel was turned off at the mains it would still be live because of the other panel. Too risky for someone who didn't know the setup, though it's unlikely that anyone will be poking around. So yeah, forget it.


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## sideshow1 (Sep 22, 2010)

kevindowling said:


> Totally agree! I used the GameCube powersupply which runs on 12V and got 1A..
> 
> Btw, OP I got a question for you which I've been searching the web for like a machine..
> 
> Is it possible to hook up CFL lamps to a CPU Power supply? That would be super awesome to make it work.. Having a power supply run your whole grow


I understand how to hook a power cable to PC power supply. I wonder how to do fans and a power cable. So that I could use the powersupply to run 2-3 fans and abandon the "cell phone" adapters all together. My adapter is HUGE!


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## bewareofdogandowner (Sep 22, 2010)

sideshow1 said:


> I understand how to hook a power cable to PC power supply. I wonder how to do fans and a power cable. So that I could use the powersupply to run 2-3 fans and abandon the "cell phone" adapters all together. My adapter is HUGE!


ice cube relays.


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## adam5150 (Sep 23, 2010)

Hi, how many 120mm 110CFM pc case fans could I safely operate if I wired to a standard household outlet and a 12V power adapter


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## kevindowling (Sep 23, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> Cfl's are 110V not 12V, so I was wrong. My bad


What if you used a transformator of some kind?


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## Danielsgb (Sep 23, 2010)

kevindowling said:


> What if you used a transformator of some kind?


I guess it could be possible, but worthless. I'd wire them to a normal plug in. Save yourself the complication. 12v is for comp fans.


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## Danielsgb (Sep 23, 2010)

adam5150 said:


> Hi, how many 120mm 110CFM pc case fans could I safely operate if I wired to a standard household outlet and a 12V power adapter


Add all the Amps and multiply by 120%. That is the Amps for the power supply you need. If you need more help list the fans. Somewhere back a bit is a fuller answer I reposted from IAm5toned.
Daniels


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## Zarezhu (Sep 23, 2010)

If i was wanting to get the shed I have out back set up with enough outlets for a good 12-14kwh, how would I go around doing this?

I'd assume I'd have to buy a few of those 50A controller boxes? Maybe one for every 4 thousand watters? And have an electrician install them for me. But where would they be wired to? I'm pretty sure my breaker box doesnt have enough room to add such a high amount of power usage


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## dwel (Sep 23, 2010)

anyone have ruff estimate on supplys i would need to get power from the main for say 2- 1000 watt lamps and fans etc say have the sub panel in closet lights on seprate breakers with timer mounted etc on plywood any ideas thoughts space 5x5x7 two rooms plywood wall seprate them


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## maxmax7777 (Sep 25, 2010)

well your first picture may have answered my question, what do you consider to be the best digital balast and why? Looks like you choose Lumeteck, can you tell me how you like them and what models we are seeing here, what models do you recomend. Thank you very much and bless you for all your hard work and usefull sharing.


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## sharpshoota (Sep 26, 2010)

brick. 

im about to jump into a larger indoor setup. i was thinking 8k, running 4 bulbs 6 hours then other 4, 6 hours. also thinking about having two flowering rooms so i can run the lights 24/7. if thats the case i would double to 16k. which should i run off a gen at that point? What do i need to do to prepare myself and get the wheels turning? what will i need to buy? do i need to hire an electrician? i dont really want any strangers in my house. Help me out...


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## DJ GreenThumb (Sep 26, 2010)

I have one for you.......I am going to run

4 - 1000w hps
2 - 1000w hps
1 - 8 tube t5 fixture
1 - 435 cfm cent inline fan
1 - 465 cfm blower
4 - pedistal fans
plus normal lighting, garage door opener etc

What is the minimum size panel I should have.......with plenty of room to grow this is a detached garage btw


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## annahasier (Sep 27, 2010)

have you seen induction grow lights?


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## Whitt2k1 (Oct 1, 2010)

So I have a thousand watt light that everytime it kicks on all my fans and pumps slow significantly what could be the cause of this? Also how much would it cost to run a dedicated 20a line for a diy job would running 18 amps on a 20 a line cause dimming of my 2 1000 w lights? I dont want the same problem on my dedicated line


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## Gfnns (Oct 1, 2010)

I was just wondering how a computer fan connects to an electrical socket because they have those weird cords that connect to the computer.


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## Whitt2k1 (Oct 1, 2010)

You have to wire them to a 12v cord (cell phone cord)


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## Danielsgb (Oct 1, 2010)

Gfnns said:


> I was just wondering how a computer fan connects to an electrical socket because they have those weird cords that connect to the computer.


Look back till you see it. Just a few back, but simple Whitt2k1 had right.


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## bohicular (Oct 2, 2010)

I am hoping you can help with a ballast problem I'm having. This ballast i wired together will start up the light, run for about 10 mins, completely turn off, and do this over again - it can't seem to stay on for over 10 mins. Its a 127w ballast with a capacitor, so i think it could run on 240w, but the outlet I'm trying to use it on is rated at 110w, and i tested it, and I was seeing 98-110 watts coming thru. Also, I haven't wired a grounded plug on the box, these tests were with an ungrounded plug to the power source.
much appreciation, b


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## Whitt2k1 (Oct 2, 2010)

Check the temp of the capacitor when it shuts off some capicitors shut off when they overheat that would explain the on off cycle. (On --- heats up--- shuts down---- cools off--- restarts)


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## Whitt2k1 (Oct 2, 2010)

Also I think your talking about volts (110-240)


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## stealthy44 (Oct 3, 2010)

ive got a 150 hps hooked up to this power cord http://www.dchydro.com/product/3181/Power-Cord-163--120V/ the hps pulls 4.4 amps on start and i am wanting to also attach an inline fan to the same power cord. the fan pulls .5 amps. im thinking that it will work, but dont want to break anything in the process so im just checking. any help is appreciated.


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## bohicular (Oct 3, 2010)

Whitt2k1 said:


> Also I think your talking about volts (110-240)


Thats right, I meant volts. I'll check out the capacitor, but if its overheating, is the only solution to get it out of the box?

thanks a lot


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## Whitt2k1 (Oct 5, 2010)

Maybe a stronger fan or somthing but I'm no expert on such things just giving a possibility google perhaps would be a good friend for that scenario


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## Rtoke (Oct 5, 2010)

OHK if i wanter to run a 23w cfl from a 12v battery i will need a inverter ?? so from 12v battery to a 12v DC - to - 240v AC inverter to the 23w cfl !! will it run it and how long will the battery last ??

cheers


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## DawgMountain (Oct 5, 2010)

Rtoke said:


> OHK if i wanter to run a 23w cfl from a 12v battery i will need a inverter ?? so from 12v battery to a 12v DC - to - 240v AC inverter to the 23w cfl !! will it run it and how long will the battery last ??
> 
> cheers


I imagine that depends on the amp rating of the battery. More amps = longer charge.


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## s.w.a.t.representa (Oct 5, 2010)

electrician... bahahaha ,can we get some info from an electrical engineer?


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## Rtoke (Oct 5, 2010)

oh cheers man !!! well i will have a solar panel charging it every day lol

and i might need another battery, so how do i hook he up to each other ?? positive from first battery to positive of other, or positive to negitave ??

i herd positive to negive will give twice amount of power but possitive to possitive and negitive to negitive from battery 1st to 2nd will give same power but will last longer ??

cheers


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 6, 2010)

Rtoke said:


> OHK if i wanter to run a 23w cfl from a 12v battery i will need a inverter ?? so from 12v battery to a 12v DC - to - 240v AC inverter to the 23w cfl !! will it run it and how long will the battery last ??
> 
> cheers


If the CFL want 240VAC then then yo will need the inverter. CFLs (and other gas bulbs need high HV to fire) CFLs have the ballast built in. If you want to run them on 12V look for an RV or marine/boat version thats meant to run @ 12VDC.


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 6, 2010)

DawgMountain said:


> I imagine that depends on the amp rating of the battery. More amps = longer charge.


Voltage matters! The amp rating of the battery only states the running time, not if it will function at 5% of the rated voltage.


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 6, 2010)

s.w.a.t.representa said:


> electrician... bahahaha ,can we get some info from an electrical engineer?


For what? 
Worked with an engineer on an electric prob. He was flat out WRONG. He forgot about dielectric strength of materials since he was so used to dealing with 1.8, 3.3 and 5 VDC. 240VAC shorted to the water internally on a hot water heater. He felt it wasn't the problem. And this guy IS smart. (holds patents on chip designs) He didn't even know what a Megger was.

A degree only means one is supposed to know something, not that they do.
The engineering field only teaches you where to look up the answer.


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## Whitt2k1 (Oct 8, 2010)

Anyone have an answer to my question on page 241?


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## talwsatgig (Oct 9, 2010)

Whitt2k1 said:


> So I have a thousand watt light that everytime it kicks on all my fans and pumps slow significantly what could be the cause of this? Also how much would it cost to run a dedicated 20a line for a diy job would running 18 amps on a 20 a line cause dimming of my 2 1000 w lights? I dont want the same problem on my dedicated line


 I'm assuming you have all the mentioned equipment running on one 15 amp circuit? Do any of the other lights in your house dim, or does it only affect 1 circuit? Are you running anything other than your lights, pumps and fans on it? 

Sounds like you may have a voltage drop situation, could be caused by a long run on 14ga wire, or possibly by a connection problem somewhere. Maybe check the connections between your outlet and the breaker box. 

No idea how much a new circuit would cost, but running the 2 1000w on a dedicated 20A should work just fine. If possible, have the new ckt hooked up to the other phase from the rest of your equipment.


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## Whitt2k1 (Oct 9, 2010)

The only thing running on that circuit is my equipment and the only area affected is that circuit


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## talwsatgig (Oct 9, 2010)

Whitt2k1 said:


> The only thing running on that circuit is my equipment and the only area affected is that circuit


If you feel comfortable doing it, shut off the breaker to your circuit, then pull the cover off your outlet and make sure the screws holding the wires on are tight. 

Check any outlets or switches on that breaker to ensure the screws are tight. If any are backwired (wires going to holes in the back of the outlet or switch instead of the screws on the sides), pull them out of the backwire holes and put them around the screws. 

Also make sure all connections to your ballast and light are tight.


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## pitbudz87 (Oct 9, 2010)

alright i have a problem i need to fix so here it goes i need to add another breaker or fuse inside of my breaker box because it onnly has 2 in there for my whole house and i keep blowing the fuse for my grow and my house its starting to become a problem if anyone could help me im no expert but i am comftorable doing it, i also had a question on how i could control the speed of one of my fans its a bathroom exhaust i use for intake its rated 80cfm i have a can fan that is 171 i belive or 141 not to sure atm but the bathroom one is louder than the 141 = rep to anyone who can help


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## Hulk Nugs (Oct 10, 2010)

Alright thinking of a new setup but if the electric is not there then it can not be done so hope someone can help.

Right now running two 20 amp breakers one for veg room one for flower room, with this heat wave the breaker on the flower room has been tripping. My guess is the AC kicks in full power and lights turn on same time and bam breaker blows BUT its a 20 amp breaker and i am only running 800watts(lights)75watts(canfan)515(ac) and some olisating fans and pumps. that should only bring me to about 1400 watts maybe little more. At one time i even had my 248(dehumidifier) on the same line but after the breaker tripped a few times i switched that over to the veg rooms breaker. What i am wondering is why it would be tripping the breaker if i am not even close to the 1800 max watts for 20amps, makes me feel like a 15 amp should be in there instead of the 20.

New idea i had is two take my two 20 amps i am using for both rooms and just use it for the flowering room, and run
Canfan 115watts
AC 515watts
Lights 800watts
Co2 248watts
Dehumidifier 248watts 
and fans, pumps little things.

Veg room 
Found a 20 amp breaker not being used really so was going to use that and then i have a ceiling light i was going to take out and wire a plug into and that should be around a 15amp right? Then run in there
600watts hps for mother
120 watts t5s
75 watt canfan
and fans, pumps

I thought i ran my electrical fine the first time and really have not had problems with it, but with it tripping the breaker on me i want to run my electrical by someone that knows hopefully more then me. With this idea in my head on changing things around again lmao i want to make sure my electrical is dialed in with more then i need so there is no more problems or worries about the electrical and all problems that can come with doing it wrong. Really want to thank anyone that can take some time to help me out on this, i will forever grateful!!

Thanks for reading, keep growing strong!!


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## bohicular (Oct 11, 2010)

bohicular said:


> I am hoping you can help with a ballast problem I'm having. This ballast i wired together will start up the light, run for about 10 mins, completely turn off, and do this over again - it can't seem to stay on for over 10 mins. Its a 127v ballast with a capacitor, so i think it could run on 240v, but the outlet I'm trying to use it on is rated at 110v, and i tested it, and I was seeing 98-110 volts coming thru. Also, I haven't wired a grounded plug on the box, these tests were with an ungrounded plug to the power source.
> much appreciation, b


Can I just eliminate the capacitor all together? I dont know exactly what would change if I did that, but the ballast i'm using now doesn't have a capacitor and seems to be doing ok. Could anyone explain the difference, please?


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## reapen (Nov 15, 2010)

Sure as hell this has to be answered here, but do electrical companys have a way to track "abnormalties" for a single user/household ?


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## Danielsgb (Nov 15, 2010)

Quick answer is yes. I've seen it answered in here somewhere. The normal household use is now higher than 20-30 yrs ago. They just want to be paid. If you try to steal your power it's now easier for them to find. Teams try to find imbalances. They could look for a 12/12 by spikes, I guess. 
If you keep looking back you can find it, as I've seen it several times.


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## Toasty420 (Nov 16, 2010)

Hi there, I've seen alot of people using cfl bulb adapters that plug straight into a extention lead. Can you get these for type g sockets in England?


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## Outlawz87 (Nov 16, 2010)

Hello, well my friend is putting together a room with 4x 1000w HPS w/ digital ballasts, 18,000 btu A/C unit, CanFan (200 something cfm), and 6 wall-mounted fans. Was wondering what kind of wiring we're going to have to do for this master bedroom. Thanks for any help in advanced.

O87


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## n00bGrower (Nov 21, 2010)

I have a quick question that hopefully is a no brainer... I'm sure there's a way to do it, but just not sure how to...

I need to find a way to connect a PC fan (120mm running 12v at about .5 amp) to a thermostat. I've wired an old school millivolt for my home, but not sure what I need to make something like this work. I'm using the fan as an exhaust for a micro space (see my link for the freezer conversion). I want the exhaust to only kick on in a certain temp range,

So, can anyone tell me if this is possible?


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## neophyte101 (Nov 21, 2010)

I'm sorry I know you probably answered this question but if I plan to run a 1000 watt lamp do I need to make any modifications. Also same question But for 2 1000 watts. Thanks in advance


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## barnsey18 (Nov 21, 2010)

Okay, so I have two 120mm computer fans. They are both rated at DC 12v 0.3a.

Now my question is, can I wire both fans together, then connect to an adapter that is 24v 0.6a, or should I get 2 separate 12v 0.3a adapters?


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## Danielsgb (Nov 21, 2010)

barnsey18 said:


> Okay, so I have two 120mm computer fans. They are both rated at DC 12v 0.3a.
> 
> Now my question is, can I wire both fans together, then connect to an adapter that is 24v 0.6a, or should I get 2 separate 12v 0.3a adapters?


 Here's from IAm5toned. Your answer is in here, but post what you think is right and I'll look.
Daniels

Originally Posted by *IAm5toned* as long as the one power source is big enough for the fans.

here's how you find out-

on the fan, somewhere, on the fan, there will be a stamp, label, or embossed lettering that says the voltage, and the power consumption. looks like this-

12vdc 12w or 12vdc 500ma

what you need is the wattage, or milliamps of the fans.

add them all up (the wattage, or mA) , then multiply by 120%....

example-
3 fans, 500mA (6w)
500ma 
x 3 
1500ma 
x 120% 
1800mA

or-
6w
x 3
18w
x 120%
21.6 w

or-
.18 amps
x 3
.54
x 120%
.648 amps
your power supply, needs to be big enough for 1800mA, or, .648 amps @ 12vdc, or 21.6w @ 12vdc


just change the mA, or wattage, or amps, to match the power requirements of the fans you have.


----------



## Ision (Nov 23, 2010)

Hi,
I'm sorry if this has been answered already, I got to about page 35 and my head when into information overload 

I use a plug n grow heavy duty timer (bottom of page) : http://www.plugandgrow.co.uk/contactors.php 

Would just like to know if I can plug a double socket into this and have it turning my light and fans on and off or if I would need to buy a new timer to run my fans?

Thanks,
ision


----------



## BigBudBalls (Nov 23, 2010)

n00bGrower said:


> I have a quick question that hopefully is a no brainer... I'm sure there's a way to do it, but just not sure how to...
> 
> I need to find a way to connect a PC fan (120mm running 12v at about .5 amp) to a thermostat. I've wired an old school millivolt for my home, but not sure what I need to make something like this work. I'm using the fan as an exhaust for a micro space (see my link for the freezer conversion). I want the exhaust to only kick on in a certain temp range,
> 
> So, can anyone tell me if this is possible?


If the t-stat is an old school bi-metal version it should be easy. They typically are just a switch (sometimes a mercury tilt switch)
Run the ground/common/negative from the power supply for the fan to the fan. Run the positive through the t-stat then to the fan.


----------



## BigBudBalls (Nov 23, 2010)

Ision said:


> Hi,
> I'm sorry if this has been answered already, I got to about page 35 and my head when into information overload
> 
> I use a plug n grow heavy duty timer (bottom of page) : http://www.plugandgrow.co.uk/contactors.php
> ...


should work as long as you aren't overloading the timer. (take 15% off the rating of the timer to be safe)


----------



## Ision (Nov 24, 2010)

Hi BigBudBalls,

Thanks for the quick reply, I did the calculations and all is good...plugged in and working.

I have given you some of the +REP thing I see people talking about 

Cheers,
Ision


----------



## lightningkid (Nov 24, 2010)

Could anyone provide advice for wiring a C.A.P. MLC to a 3 prong dryer cord? CAP sells the cords but does not explain what to do; the problem is the 3 wire cord doesn't have a ground wire but has a neutral wire. CAP only explains what to do with 2 hots and a ground. Would it be safe to hook the neutral to the ground lug and call it a day? Here are the instructions>> PDF Thanks for any advice!


----------



## aidosmoke (Nov 25, 2010)

Hi 
A UK grower here, I purchased this room thermostat which i believe will switch on my extractor fan at a pre set temp. http://www.honeywell.com.pl/pdf/automatyka_domow/termostaty/T6360.pdf

Could you confirm the the wiring connections for me.

i think i need to wire my plug wire into term 1 (brown/live) and my plug (n) into term 2. I think i need to connect my extractor fan wires to term 2 for the (n) and term 4 for the live. 

thanks in advance

PS i just found a link to someone else's project, but they appear to wiring it different to me! http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=191615


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## n00bGrower (Nov 25, 2010)

Thanks BigBud... Is this what you're talking about? http://cgi.ebay.com/Sunne-TC-126-001-Line-Voltage-Heat-Cool-Room-Thermostat_W0QQitemZ190358510727QQcategoryZ53302QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m8QQ_trkparmsZalgo=MW&its=C&itu=UCC&otn=5&ps=63&clkid=5215262513784998478

or would this work? http://cgi.ebay.com/WHITE-RODGERS-1A64-41-LINE-VOLTAGE-THERMOSTAT-62749_W0QQitemZ200404487032QQcategoryZ53302QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks again, and mad rep to you my friend!


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## ReverendMaynard (Nov 26, 2010)

Hey mate, I have a question.

Is it safe to run a 15' 12g extension chord to a single power bar, running 3 digital timers(all rated 15a); one for exhaust, one for circulation fan and one for light a 600w HPS? The power bar is rated for 15a, 1860w, very beefy all from one plug outlet. All together the amps are around 8, not much else running off the whole circuit. Maybe 2 amps tops. 

Cheers!

Rev


----------



## keanureeves (Nov 26, 2010)

How about 18awg lamp cord between 400w hps ballast and mogul socket?
I have some 18awg lamp cord laying around the house and i wonder if it would be kosher to put some distance between the ballast and bulb with this wire..?


----------



## XS Brain (Nov 26, 2010)

Question moving into a room set up for growing. All sockets are 110 (presumably off different phases) so if I pull 110 out of 2 different sockets (got 10 plenty to spare.lol) that is out of phase and hook it to a 20amp 220v breaker (in the back where it would usually snap to the panel) then wire a 220 outlet off of this breaker will this be safe.

schematic 110 breaker phase 1 >>wires to room> One double pole 220 breaker > 220 Volt outlet
110 breaker phase 2 >> wires to room> ^^^

My thinking is being the 220 volt double pole breaker will flip in case of a short and there will only be power to the breaker and no electrical risks present.


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 29, 2010)

XS Brain said:


> Question moving into a room set up for growing. All sockets are 110 (presumably off different phases) so if I pull 110 out of 2 different sockets (got 10 plenty to spare.lol) that is out of phase and hook it to a 20amp 220v breaker (in the back where it would usually snap to the panel) then wire a 220 outlet off of this breaker will this be safe.
> 
> schematic 110 breaker phase 1 >>wires to room> One double pole 220 breaker > 220 Volt outlet
> 110 breaker phase 2 >> wires to room> ^^^
> ...


Sounds fishy to me. Plus you will need to check to see if they actually are on different phases. Why the desire for 220?


----------



## uberzone (Nov 30, 2010)

neophyte101 said:


> I'm sorry I know you probably answered this question but if I plan to run a 1000 watt lamp do I need to make any modifications. Also same question But for 2 1000 watts. Thanks in advance


Mods to what exactly?


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## uberzone (Nov 30, 2010)

s.w.a.t.representa said:


> electrician... bahahaha ,can we get some info from an electrical engineer?


well, there actually is an EE active in this forum but most of these questions would be more acurately answered by a feild electrician as they are generally about household wiring.


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## Maserati89 (Nov 30, 2010)

Can someone help me with my connection problem? I am trying to hook up my ballast to my light socket...but I'm assured I've got every connection properly connected, except one thing.. there's a green wire on both the power cord and socket... and I've found no instructions that point that I should connect these two together...soo electrician experts, do I connect these two??


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## lightningkid (Nov 30, 2010)

lightningkid said:


> Could anyone provide advice for wiring a C.A.P. MLC to a 3 prong dryer cord? CAP sells the cords but does not explain what to do; the problem is the 3 wire cord doesn't have a ground wire but has a neutral wire. CAP only explains what to do with 2 hots and a ground. Would it be safe to hook the neutral to the ground lug and call it a day? Here are the instructions>> PDF Thanks for any advice!


Can anyone help me? I contacted CAP and they didn't respond. I would really like to make sure I have this unit wired correctly. Thanks.


----------



## purpslovindude (Dec 1, 2010)

Captn said:


> so here is my electrical panel...only took me about an hour and a half...of course, i'm an electrician, it will take a layman a lot longer...the box on the left is an intermatic 40amp 120v timer feeding 2 20amp receptacles...im going to replace one receptacle on each circuit with a GFI since so much water is used in a growroom.





Captn said:


> ok, mrly, here is a material list for my electrical station...
> 
> 1 100amp Square D QO Indoor panel with added ground bar (use whatever panel make you like, rated to at least 50amps)
> 
> ...


Hey been reading this thread for bout past 2 hrs and i have found alot of useful hints and tips on safety and simpleness of electricity, i would just like to take the time and thank everyone who has contributed, now on with my question if i was to give you an equiptment list of my grow op, would you be willing to map me out a list and walk-thru of an elec. setup to that of yours and bricks stature? would give several rep+ and be forever thankful. thanks in advance


----------



## heelzballer (Dec 4, 2010)

Hi all, 

My new attic grow is starting to flip the breaker..It just recently began as I had to buy a small electric heater for $20 @ lowes, to keep the space at around 70-80 degrees. Before adding the electric heater, I had 2 400 hps bulbs, running from a sunstream reflector hood, and 2 400w lumatek ballasts. I have one of the ballasts running on an extension cord 13amp, I think is the gauge. and then into the surge protector/timer. The surge protector is then plugged into a normal wall 110v. The other ballast is plugged directly into the other wall outlet. Is there a way to put a higher fuse in the breaker box, or any other sorts of recommendations? Have no real knowledge regarding electrical issues, but am concerned with intermittent breaker flipping..It's on right now, with one of the ballasts unplugged, and just one light on, but need to get this remedied obviously as cuttings, and seedlings grow and need the room. Are there any concerns to small electric heaters in grow rooms, ie, soil particles igniting? God forbid...The house is brand new


----------



## Malenius (Dec 4, 2010)

OMG an electrician,,Thank u god.....My problem is always making me nervous..I got my growroom in the bacement bro,and got 16 amp fuse down there.Im using 1x400 hps and 1x250 hps with of course each there own ballast.. i am also using a medium sized fan,and a heater..with the lamps and heater,its winter and -15c here in Norway(brrr) I only got 2 outlets in the wall,so I got the fan-250hpsand the heater in a 3 way splitter,and the 400hps in one by it self...Is this dangerous bro???16 amp enough??I think maybe the freezer downstairs is on that fuse as well.. Is the splitter good 4 all that power??Its not an industri one but the regular cheap splitter from wallmart..(it doesnt feel warm 2 the touch...Thanks for helping....


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## Nice Ol Bud (Dec 4, 2010)

Like your avatar dude


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## Malenius (Dec 4, 2010)

Nice Ol Bud said:


> Like your avatar dude


TY bro..lol..me and my son made this snowman 2 years ago,but it made him scared so we had to "KILL" it....Kids.. can anyone help me with my question??


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## fummins (Dec 6, 2010)

I have a question for the Electrician God. Can you tell me if the Ostberg 8" exhaust fans are dimmable? I need to slow them down a bit as I cant open the door to my room Thanks!


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## Leo B Anderson (Dec 6, 2010)

Hey bricktown how are ya!

I have just completed my GR construction, all equipment in place. 5 110v standard GFI outlets (in series or looped to one single 20 amp breaker) Breaker box is outside 30 feet from GR. Every piece of equipment powered up and maintanined power for 1 hour except the lights. (3) 1000w HPS lights with digital ballasts. Each ballast draws 9.6 amps. I obviously have an overload situation my question is: Since the 5 outlets in the GR area seem to be in a series or looped togather, which means that one of those outlets is the primary going directly to the 20 amp breaker. If I want to install a 50 amp service there would I have to re wire all of the outlets with 6 guage wire or just the primary? (I am assuming there is a primary outlet that would also have to be changed to a 50 amp outlet) Also, is there a reducer type items that would plug into the 50 amp outlet and allow for a regular 3 pole plug?

Thanks in advance


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## [norcal] (Dec 7, 2010)

Hey I hit you up a while back on some service questions. Finally gettin around to installing n want to ask you a couple questions. I want to run 200 amps through 280 feet of 3 inc DB conduit. Got a chance to buy (3) 360 feet of 1/0 thhn copper wires for $1400. I was thinkin of cuttin the 360s in half for 6 1/0 and pullin them 180 feet to a splice box. then pullin 100' of 3/0 from my pole to the splice box. Would (6) 1/0 in a 3" conduit even be possible? cable fill? Dumb Idea? Tryin to save a few bucks. My calcs came up with 300 copper for 280". Thats gotta be pricey. Thanks for any help


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## ReverendMaynard (Dec 7, 2010)

Any advice here?



ReverendMaynard said:


> Hey mate, I have a question.
> 
> Is it safe to run a 15' 12g extension chord to a single power bar, running 3 digital timers(all rated 15a); one for exhaust, one for circulation fan and one for light a 600w HPS? The power bar is rated for 15a, 1860w, very beefy all from one plug outlet. All together the amps are around 8, not much else running off the whole circuit. Maybe 2 amps tops.
> 
> ...


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 7, 2010)

ReverendMaynard said:


> Any advice here?


Should be ok, but remember that the breaker feeding that outlet the ext cord is in is probably feeding 4 or so more outlets.


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## IAm5toned (Dec 9, 2010)

Malenius said:


> OMG an electrician,,Thank u god.....My problem is always making me nervous..I got my growroom in the bacement bro,and got 16 amp fuse down there.Im using 1x400 hps and 1x250 hps with of course each there own ballast.. i am also using a medium sized fan,and a heater..with the lamps and heater,its winter and -15c here in Norway(brrr) I only got 2 outlets in the wall,so I got the fan-250hpsand the heater in a 3 way splitter,and the 400hps in one by it self...Is this dangerous bro???16 amp enough??I think maybe the freezer downstairs is on that fuse as well.. Is the splitter good 4 all that power??Its not an industri one but the regular cheap splitter from wallmart..(it doesnt feel warm 2 the touch...Thanks for helping....


is the breaker kicking yet?
if not id say its _probably _good.
tho running a heater off of a splitter is a big no no... you should run the lights off the splitter and have the heater plugged directly into the outlet, no cords or splitters.


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## blower (Dec 9, 2010)

how much will bill be..for one hps 1000w starting to run at 18/6 for less than 2 months...?
and then for the 12 hours on?


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 10, 2010)

blower said:


> how much will bill be..for one hps 1000w starting to run at 18/6 for less than 2 months...?
> and then for the 12 hours on?


check my sig


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 10, 2010)

Malenius said:


> OMG an electrician,,Thank u god.....My problem is always making me nervous..I got my growroom in the bacement bro,and got 16 amp fuse down there.Im using 1x400 hps and 1x250 hps with of course each there own ballast.. i am also using a medium sized fan,and a heater..with the lamps and heater,its winter and -15c here in Norway(brrr) I only got 2 outlets in the wall,so I got the fan-250hpsand the heater in a 3 way splitter,and the 400hps in one by it self...Is this dangerous bro???16 amp enough??I think maybe the freezer downstairs is on that fuse as well.. Is the splitter good 4 all that power??Its not an industri one but the regular cheap splitter from wallmart..(it doesnt feel warm 2 the touch...Thanks for helping....


The lights and ballast aren't able to keep it warm enough? I'd think the heater would be just for lights out times.


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## mike bloomberg (Dec 10, 2010)

Heres one for ya
I'm about to buy and electronic ballast, and since I spend a good chunk of my year studying abroad I was going to buy a 110/220 switchable ballst. My question is would I need separate bulbs, as in a 220v bulb for use when abroad or will a normal bulb work with bot 110v and 220v.
Thanks


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## Danielsgb (Dec 10, 2010)

Same bulb works on either setting.


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## DR Chem (Dec 11, 2010)

Hi thanks for all the great info I was wondering what the difference is to use your ballast set with 120v or 240v? Does 240v use more elctricity and produce more light??? I have a simple 120 v ballast, is the benefits to using 240V???
THanks !!


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## 2stoge (Dec 11, 2010)

I have a DPDT relay that is rated at 240vac, will there be any problems running it a 12vdc through one contact and 240v through the other. Im referring to the contacts obviously and not the coil.


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 11, 2010)

DR Chem said:


> Hi thanks for all the great info I was wondering what the difference is to use your ballast set with 120v or 240v? Does 240v use more elctricity and produce more light??? I have a simple 120 v ballast, is the benefits to using 240V???
> THanks !!


Watts is watts.
You pay for power used. Watts is volts X amps

So 5 amps of 230 VAC is costs the same as 10 amps of 120

500 watts of 120 VAC costs the same as 500 watts of 230 VAC.

Given an option of 120 or 230 you will gain a ever so slight benefit of 230. But it will *NEVER* seen in a bill.


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 11, 2010)

2stoge said:


> I have a DPDT relay that is rated at 240vac, will there be any problems running it a 12vdc through one contact and 240v through the other. Im referring to the contacts obviously and not the coil.


No problem. Just watch cross talk/induction; separate the lines as best you can.


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## 2stoge (Dec 11, 2010)

Thanks BigBudBalls, appreciate the help.


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## Watts215 (Dec 11, 2010)

Hey all.. New to the forum and planning my first grow.. Ball park estimate on having a certified electrician run a new circuit to storage closet in the basement? Power box is also down there.. I don't feel comfortable or capable In doing any DIY electrical work. Also any way to figure out if my washer/dryer are on the same circuit as the existing outlet in that closet? If they are not, then no worries and no need for another circuit. Any help is greatly appreciated.


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## Danielsgb (Dec 12, 2010)

If you plug a lamp into the outlet in the closet, then start the Dryer. Flip the breaker, make sure dryer did turn off and check lamp. My guess is no, that outlet is on a different breaker. Might be a good idea to 'map' your breakers. By that I mean turn lights on in lots of rooms, then flip a breaker, you'll know what goes to what.


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## Watts215 (Dec 12, 2010)

Thanks bro.. I actually over-thought that situation.. Thanks for the common sense reply bro. Did jus that this mourning and spent few minutes labeling the circuits.. You're also right about the closet outlet not being on same circuit as washer/dryer. After a closer look at that box.. AC, Washer,Dryer,Kitchen Apps all have their own circuit.


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## Gotsomeherb? (Dec 12, 2010)

ok if i just hook two 60 watt cfl to the power box on the cpu stealth grower is it going to fuck up??


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## Danielsgb (Dec 12, 2010)

Watts215 said:


> Thanks bro.. I actually over-thought that situation.. Thanks for the common sense reply bro. Did jus that this mourning and spent few minutes labeling the circuits.. You're also right about the closet outlet not being on same circuit as washer/dryer. After a closer look at that box.. AC, Washer,Dryer,Kitchen Apps all have their own circuit.


The 240v circuit wouldn't have a 120v leg off it unless it was planned before but the 'map' is def. the way to start. You could have that done if access is easier vs. whole new breaker & wiring it. Maybe cheaper. I'm far from qualified to help much further but good luck.


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## killakron (Dec 12, 2010)

Hi i have some questions i was hoping u all could help with, any help would be greatly appreciated as i am a complete noob with electrical shit, but good with my hands so i figure i'll give it a shot. I'm trying to run 6 600 watt lights on a timer and was wondering if it would be better to get 120v equip or 240v equip. and how this should be wired in.. should i just run another like 40amp(or whatever) breaker and just run an MLC-8 to that. Or should i run another box, or any other option you feel would be nessecary. And is 6 lights turning on at once ok. Would a 40 amp heavy duty timer wired to 3 or 4 outlet boxes on a piece of wood do just as good of a job as the MLC-8?


----------



## ReverendMaynard (Dec 13, 2010)

BigBudBalls said:


> Should be ok, but remember that the breaker feeding that outlet the ext cord is in is probably feeding 4 or so more outlets.



Thanks for getting back mate, appreciate it.

There are outlets on that breaker but the most to get pulled at any given time would be 2 amps max. 

Cheers,
Rev


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## djburns1 (Dec 13, 2010)

hey my friend thanks for all the help you extend to everyone.
I have three runs of #10 wire, each 150' long on 30 amp breakers
Question is, about how many amps will be available at the plugs on the other end?


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## IAm5toned (Dec 13, 2010)

24 amps


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## fourtwentychat (Dec 13, 2010)

Simple questions: Can any residential home legally (and safely) buy as much power as they want/need? Example: Having either a 10k, 15k or even 20k watt circuit up and down the basement for use? Is there a point where adding circuits becomes impossible (ie several *large* circuits installed throughout a home for several growers?) or is it pretty much "money talks?" Finally, can said separate circuits be billed to different persons in the same home, whom may each have different power needs.


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## IAm5toned (Dec 13, 2010)

i have personally installed 600 amp service equipment for residential customers, in several locations. also quite a few 400 amp services.

600 amp @ 240 = 115,200 watts 
400 amps @ 240 = 76,800 watts 
200 amps @ 240 = 38,400 watts
100 amps @ 240 = 19,200 watts

as you can see, even a small, 100 amp panel will provide enough power for most grows, and a 200, definitely. with a 200 amp panel, a grower could very easily run 25 1000w fixtures, with room to spare for hvac....

the key to having enough power, is money talks.... the combination of the proper electrical equipment and wiring, and 240v fixtures.
keep your bills paid, and dont even think about trying to 'tap' or find a way to beat the meter, and the power company doesnt give a shit what you do, all they want is $$$. for all they know you like to metal fab work and have welders out the ass in your basement, they really dont care. tho in some states, you wouldnt want to really go nuts, the rates are astronomical if the local power utillity uses a tier/usage based billing system.
however, i will caution this, serious power requires a serious investment in both time, money, material, planning, engineering, and hiring professionals to get the job done right, or to, at least, oversee your work and ensure its integrity as a system.


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## fourtwentychat (Dec 14, 2010)

Thanks for the information; you rock!


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## Greenskunk (Dec 15, 2010)

I have a question. To start this is for a pc grow. I have 3 light sockets with cfl bulbs and this fan (Dayton ac axial fan 3VU63 230V 26watt) all running parallel from a 2 prong cord. I realized today that I should have the fan grounded. Can I change the 2 prong cord I have coming in with a 3 prong cord and attach the ground wire from the new cord to the fan and continue to run the fan and all 3 lights parallel? Thanks in advance.


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## thatsam (Dec 15, 2010)

This might be weird but I have one of those things that you can screw into a light socket and it becomes a "plug-in" socket. So my question is: Can I treat this socket like an ordinary wall socket? I have a 3-way splitter running 4x 23watt cfl's, a timer and 2 random pc fans (like 60 & 80mm i think) is this alright? Do I have enough juice left over to run an oscillating fan and maybe another pc fan or more cfl's?
Thanks all...


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## IAm5toned (Dec 17, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> i have personally installed 600 amp service equipment for residential customers, in several locations. also quite a few 400 amp services.
> 
> 600 amp @ 240 = 115,200 watts
> 400 amps @ 240 = 76,800 watts
> ...


and in case anyone was wondering, yes, those are the derated wattages for continuous duty operation


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## gdsense2000 (Dec 22, 2010)

I'll be setting up my new grow room soon and want to be sure I have plenty of power. I intend on installing a 60 amp breaker in my main panel, and a junction box in my grow room. From that point what should I do? I'd like my 3 1000 watts to plug into one outlet so I can control them through one timer. What are the steps I need to take? Is there a converter box of some sort I can hard wire into my j-box, like a power strip? Are there timers rated for 3000+ watts? How would design the wiring layout for my situation? In my flowering room I will have 3 1000 watt HPS ballast/bulbs, a 6" CannaFan for venting, a 8" inline duct fan for exhaust, 2 box fans, 3 water pumps.


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## Deerhunter617 (Dec 22, 2010)

Wires leaving my house to my barn my barn has a plug and a light i want the plug hot all the time and the light on a three way with My house so I can turn the light on from my house or the barn but I wanna keep the plug hot all the time what I need to do


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## Deerhunter617 (Dec 22, 2010)

"3 wires" leaving my house a hot nuetral and another colored wire sorry I didn't specify what I had


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## Deerhunter617 (Dec 22, 2010)

I have a time clock that works on a contact the brings my 3 1000s watter on at the same time


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## Deerhunter617 (Dec 22, 2010)

It's easy for a house to require a 600amp service depending on how many k/w it takes to heat the big bastards


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## phxfire (Dec 22, 2010)

How do I wire up a seperate power box for a grow room... Running (5) 600watt HPS in room


----------



## tet1953 (Dec 22, 2010)

phxfire said:


> How do I wire up a seperate power box for a grow room... Running (5) 600watt HPS in room


phxfire, I am not an electrician but I put in my own subpanel for my grow room. Here are a couple links I used:

http://www.electrical-online.com/subpanel-installation/
http://www.subpanel.info/

A few points I found important to remember:
Adequate breaker in main panel to feed the sub
The difference between main and sub regarding the relationship between ground and neutral. This is explained well in one of the links (Neutral Bonding Jumper).
Consider the aperage you are going to be utilizing with everything, and use adequate wire, breakers, outlets, everything. Don't scrimp and you'll sleep more soundly. I used 20 amp and 12ga for most circuits. I have a couple 15 amp circuits for fans etc.


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## Deerhunter617 (Dec 22, 2010)

Prob a contact with a 120v coil that kicks on when your timeclock kicks on


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## Deerhunter617 (Dec 22, 2010)

Or you can run one circuit to a 240v timeclock(like you put on a hotwater heater)with 12 ga wire and put in on a 2pole 20 in your breaker box then Run a 12ga wire from there inbetween all your lights 12-2 w/g romex would work fine. Time clock says line and load in it black and white wire go on the line side from the beaker box black and white wire leaving timeclock to your lights go on the load and that's 5 600w 240v fixtures on a time clock and it's own 240v circuit in a nutshell


----------



## wangyunan (Dec 23, 2010)

hey buddies, it's nice to find a electrical thread, I'm currently building up a grow tent and wanna have a humi-temp control system inside, as a new grower, I still have many thing to figure out. How can I control humi & temp? with what gadgets? say if I had a humi-temp controller (monitor) with several outlets on it, what gadgets should I wire on them? for example maybe one of them outlets leads to a exhaust fan which turns on when the humi reaches the top limit, maybe also when the temp reaches top limit, but what gadgets should I use for the lower limits? Maybe a infrared heat lamp for low temp? how about low humi?
anyway, I would like to hear any advises.


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## slayer6669 (Dec 23, 2010)

How do i wire a regular thermostat up with my fan to turn on and off to keep a constant temperature?


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## BeanZyBoo (Dec 25, 2010)

hi i have a extension lead in my room which has a bright orange power led in it, can i remove this? if so, how? any help apreciated


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## Danielsgb (Dec 25, 2010)

Black electric tape to cover it.


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## herbalking84757 (Dec 28, 2010)

iits writtin on it there are specs usually written on the actual device itself..


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## mrconfident (Dec 28, 2010)

Questioned erased because I now understand it was a very dumb question. 

Thanks anyways haha


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## epicseeds (Jan 15, 2011)

I have a main breaker panel as well as a sub panel about 50 feet from my grow room, all of which are in the same room (basement). The breaker panel and the sub panel is completely full except for one single slot available. In my situation I need to run ~60amps (6000w + fans, future ac, etc). At first I figured we could purchase one of those single pole 60amp breakers and wire the ballasts @ 240v, but then realized in order to run @ 240v you need to install a double pole breaker. Is this correct?

Assuming this is correct we seem to have 2 options. Either get an even larger amperage single pole and run at 120v, or add yet another sub panel. I doubt they even make a 80-100amp single pole breaker that will fit in one slot. Even if they did I assume it would be dangerous. So, it seems like a sub panel is our only option. In order to do this I assume we would need to pull out 2 breakers and replace those with a 100amp breaker. Then transfer the previous 2 breakers to the new panel and rewire. Then I would add a 2 pole 60amp and run ballasts at 240v. Does all of this sound ok so far? Now here is a question we cant seem to answer. When you replace those two breakers with a 100amp to power the sub panel, can the sub panel only house a total of 100amps of breakers? In other words the sub panel could only use a 60amp and a 40amp and not a 60amp + 40amp + 15amp + 15amp.


As you can tell, we are not very knowledgeable in these type of things so obviously we want to hire an electrician. If you were to do this job, considering my situation and needs - what would you do and what would be a fair amount for the job?

Thanks for your help!


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## Ricksteinburgletonson (Jan 18, 2011)

I have a question about the safety of my current light set-up, which I have been using for about 3 months. 

I run an old 600 watt sunsystems ballast plugged into a 110 outlet. I'm using the only grounded outlet in the house, which wasn't grounded originally but has been wired into the ground of the (unused) dryer circuit a couple feet away. Also, the ballast makes a fairly loud hum, which I am told means the transformer in my ballast is about to go out. Am I putting myself at risk of a fire because of the sketchy ground combined with a dying transformer? I am getting new ballasts soon which I plan to run off the 240v dryer circuit, but in the meantime I have started worrying about fire danger... any thoughts?

-thanks


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## Deerhunter617 (Jan 18, 2011)

Yeah you plug that light into a 30amp dryer circuit and you'll have a fire hazard because that light won't pull but a couple of amps and you have a chance it could start to fry and never throw that 30 amp breaker if the tranformer goes out on the light just unplug it it won't catch on fire some transformers hum for years


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## Deerhunter617 (Jan 18, 2011)

Hey bro buy a twin breaker they are little with two throws take two single pole breakers out and put the wires on to the new thin piggyback breaker and bang you got another breaker space in your breaker box


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## Deerhunter617 (Jan 18, 2011)

Guys I'm an electrician but I hardly ever look in here and not gonna back track through the thread if you have a question pm me and I'll get back to you


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## flonomendo (Jan 18, 2011)

Sorry to bring my troubles to this thread, but I figured it's worth a shot and might get more attention.

First off, I am using a CanFan 6" HO Exhaust fan. LINK: http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Can-Fan-6-inch-440-CFM-High-output-Exhaust-Fan/5498160/product.html
I purchased a fan speed controller from HTG, which is the same exact thing as the "Speedster" controller. This fan controller causes my exhaust fan to make a buzz noise, coming from the fan itself. The buzzing is louder than the noise from the fan I was trying to elminate, and plus the buzzing is just a bad thing.

My question is, how can I control the power going to this fan; alas controlling the speed of airflow? Those little router controlers don't work, and I am under the impression that they work just the same way as a Light Switch Dimmer. In another thread where I have been asking this, a poster brought up the point of using a 3 way ceiling fan speed switch. LINK: http://www.lowes.com/pd_96581-79-27180_0__?productId=1114883&Ntt=3+speed+control&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3D3%2Bspeed%2Bcontrol

Would using the 3 speed ceiling fan switch hooked up to an outlet control the speed of my canfan without causing a buzz? What can I do to control the speed of my fan and not get the motor buzzing? Thank you.


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## jake55 (Jan 21, 2011)

I currently have a high maintenance HVAC set up right now with no controlers. I am expanding and am looking for a good product to control temp and humidity. What do you recommend and what do i need. I know electricity, just not HVAC and the controllers. thanks


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## mrconfident (Jan 23, 2011)

I have a breaker that is being supplied 110v going to an outlet in my house. I don't want to redo the wiring in order to run 220v. My question is, would it be possible to get a step up transformer that plugs directly into my out and get 220v from there. Once I do that, would I be able to utilize up to 3300 watts from this? Is this even possible?


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## Griffta (Jan 23, 2011)

Ok I've got a question & hope this is the right place to ask.
I'm starting my 1st grow and want to buy a kessil h150 led light. Problem is I'm in the UK and I cant find them anywhere over here. If I buy one from the US can I plug it in & run it over here? I mean, obviously there's the 2-pin adapter but do the different countries run different voltage networks (if thats the right phrase!)
In short - would the lights explode/melt?


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## legallyflying (Jan 23, 2011)

Griffta said:


> Ok I've got a question & hope this is the right place to ask.
> I'm starting my 1st grow and want to buy a kessil h150 led light. Problem is I'm in the UK and I cant find them anywhere over here. If I buy one from the US can I plug it in & run it over here? I mean, obviously there's the 2-pin adapter but do the different countries run different voltage networks (if thats the right phrase!)
> In short - would the lights explode/melt?



uk is 220. You can't use a 110 device in 220 or vice versa unless it implicitly says you can.


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## Crazyhair (Jan 23, 2011)

Hi, I have a lighting question. I am putting together my first serious grow and wanted to know if I can pick up a 600w light at Lowells or Home depot? Would it require a ballast, and how would I know if my breaker will handle it? I know there is a formula but its been so long since I have done it I don't remember.

Thanks!


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## Griffta (Jan 23, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> uk is 220. You can't use a 110 device in 220 or vice versa unless it implicitly says you can.


cheers for the info LF


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## legallyflying (Jan 23, 2011)

Crazyhair said:


> Hi, I have a lighting question. I am putting together my first serious grow and wanted to know if I can pick up a 600w light at Lowells or Home depot? Would it require a ballast, and how would I know if my breaker will handle it? I know there is a formula but its been so long since I have done it I don't remember.
> 
> Thanks!


serious grow and 600 watt light from lowes shouldn't be used in the same sentence. The formula you are probably thinking of is volts x amps = watts.


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## sputniknz (Jan 27, 2011)

I need help getting power to my grow.

View attachment 1406077View attachment 1406078View attachment 1406079View attachment 1406080View attachment 1406081View attachment 1406082View attachment 1406083View attachment 1406084View attachment 1406085

I have posted this before but found this thread and thought i might have more luck here.

This light switch is directly above my grow box, and the room has no power sockets at all. I want to wire an extension lead into this box from the grow box so when the switch is ON my grow has power. I will be leaving it on 24/7 as i dont use this room for anything. I am running a 600w HPS and 1 ordinary desk fan.

I hope the photo's show enough for you to help, if not tell me and i will take more.

Also, this is a very old house, and hence the black power cable. Simple instruction like "put wire in ?this? hole, and put other wire in ?this? hole" would be great.

This is the last step to completion. I think its possible to do because there are extra terminals for something right...

If i cant do this i have to run another cable approx 25meters under the house. So obviously i will do whatever i have to to make this option work.... safely ofcourse.


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## rg617 (Jan 28, 2011)

I am planning to buy a house in the next few month... I would like to make a grow room in the basement. I want to run 2x 1000w HPS in the flowering chamber and about 200w worth of flouros in the veg chamber. Also plan on having the 2 1000w HPS's air cooled. I am skilled in carpentry and would build a stealth room on my own, very nicely hidden and disguised behind a fake shelving unit (hidden passage).

I have no idea what to do about the electric side of things. I have a good friend who is an electrician, but I do not want to tell anybody about this operation. How what could I tell him as a lie? Or even, is this a project that I could complete myself after learning to do this thru good reads and info on the net?

Also, what work EXACTLY would I need to have done in this hidden room, which will have no electricity at all to begin with?


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## IXOYE (Jan 28, 2011)

Hey Brick-

Two questions?

1. I just spent 30 minutes salvaging some (120v I think) computer fans -- I wired one to a "120-240v" ex-cell phone charger and it was so weak! i couldn't even feel a breeze an inch away though the blades were spinning. Is there a way to give them more power them up like if I wired them to a beefier male like that big bitch that runs power to my dsl modem?

2. I spent $18 on a t5 single fixture instead of $20 t5 dual fixture that was for hard wire. 
That felt so stupid. Do you know of a good tutorial you could direct us to about rigging a nice t5 panel? I'd love to have about 6 of those dual hard-wire fixtures mounted on a bit of plywood or something and make my own shop light out of 'em.


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## budbuster3000 (Jan 29, 2011)

Hey , im putting together a grow box and im using 3 pc fans for ventilation, i wired them to a 12v adapter but I find they are way too loud. Is there a way i can wire a switch to adjust the speed of the fans?


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## dwiajwalb (Jan 29, 2011)

NO, step up transformer makes it 240 , but u have half the watts.
DO THIS..
the breaker that the outlet is on, unhook both wires, find a 240v breaker- the dryer, (dont use dryer when lights are on)- put black in one, white in the other. 
THE outlet is now 240v BE SURE YOU CHECK TO SEE THAT IT IS THE ONLY OUTLET WIRED TO THAT WIRE.
if there are other outlets or lighting in this circuit before your outlet, then dont do it.


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## dwiajwalb (Jan 29, 2011)

SPUTNIK
PULL ALL THAT SHIT DOWN!!!!!
the wire at the ceiling where the light is the main power.
take all that shit off
put a outlet where the light is. add a timer.


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## Mike Young (Jan 31, 2011)

Question for eletrician super-genious. I have a 1500 watt heater that I only use at about 1/4 power. Can I plug it into a 1000 watt timer, provided I keep it under 75%? 

Thanks!


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## suave.sam (Jan 31, 2011)

*Got home this evening to find the electricity off! The emergency services guy traced the problem to a socket in the room with the stealth grow.

The lights are now back on, but half of the sockets in the house are still not working.

I have a 65w and two 23w cfl's wired to one socket, and a couple of pc fans wired to another. However its been running apparently fine for 3 weeks now. Could this be the root of the problem?

Any assistance for a 1st time grower would be much appreciated.
(in the UK).

Cheers *


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## jackdaknife (Jan 31, 2011)

suave.sam said:


> *Got home this evening to find the electricity off! The emergency services guy traced the problem to a socket in the room with the stealth grow.
> 
> The lights are now back on, but half of the sockets in the house are still not working.
> 
> ...


Usually in a domestic dwell, there is a ring circuit for each story, each containing 10 sockets (not including spurs). It could be a number of things, and i'm suprised the emergency electrician didn't repair it. Anything else he said? For an average 13amp ring circuit you can load around a maximum of 2990watts. Clearly a 120w max grow isn't going to overload it, what else do you have on the circuit? First rule of thumb, check your breakers. If you have rewireable fuses then you may need to put new fuse wire in, but first find out what is overloading it if that is the problem.

MCB/Breaker:

View attachment 1414115

Rewireable fuse:

View attachment 1414116

If he is naming a socket as faulty, then really I would suggest you get someone qualified in. IF you insist on doing the job yourself, then I can only explain the guildlines. Making sure the socket/ring/radial circuit is dead, unscrew the socket and inspect it for any damage. If it doesn't look in bad order then I STRONGLY suggest you get someone in to fix as it could be a fault in the cable running from your distrabution board to the socket and repairing it yourself could put you in danger as you may not do it right, and an electrical fire is all you need lol. You'll get the whole street baked!

Hope this helps.


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## jackdaknife (Jan 31, 2011)

Mike Young said:


> Question for eletrician super-genious. I have a 1500 watt heater that I only use at about 1/4 power. Can I plug it into a 1000 watt timer, provided I keep it under 75%?
> 
> Thanks!


Its a stupid thing to do, like really stupid. You're creating unnecessary risk but if you want to do it then yes you can, PROVIDED you have protection on the circuit from an overload and you make sure you're correct on how much power is on the load.


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## jackdaknife (Jan 31, 2011)

budbuster3000 said:


> Hey , im putting together a grow box and im using 3 pc fans for ventilation, i wired them to a 12v adapter but I find they are way too loud. Is there a way i can wire a switch to adjust the speed of the fans?



Yes you could actually, although I don't know if it would create problems for the 12v adapter, but I would try it, its only 12v pc fan. Go to maplins or any electronic (not electrical) store and find a cheap switch. Wire the live through the switch and connect the neutrals together via soldiering or electrical tape.


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## joshfoxx (Feb 6, 2011)

hey brickton i have a question.. i have a single detached garage with a electrical plug.. was wondering how many amps or lights i can get in there or how to determine how much electricity i can use without tripping the breaker, its FREE electric for me.. and we used to hang out in there with my big screen and portable ac unit and other things plugged in and sometimes it would trip
[email protected]-


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## Danielsgb (Feb 6, 2011)

What size breaker is it? That will determine it.


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## IAm5toned (Feb 8, 2011)

jackdaknife said:


> Yes you could actually, although I don't know if it would create problems for the 12v adapter, but I would try it, its only 12v pc fan. Go to maplins or any electronic (not electrical) store and find a cheap switch. Wire the live through the switch and connect the neutrals together via soldiering or electrical tape.


epic fail.


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## gnosh (Feb 8, 2011)

I am currently redoing my garage into a grow room and have found that my 15 amp circuit breaker cant hold up to two 1k lights... Logic would then inform me "DUH"! That being said I am below novice level on electrical knowledge so I ask the experienced people out there, If I don't want to have to do this again in the future what size of breaker do I need to install to run an entire grow room with no worries of flipping a breaker?
will be at least 4 1k lights, only two at the moment


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## IAm5toned (Feb 8, 2011)

u need a subpanel and/or lighting contactor to switch 4k watts.....

its alot more than just a breaker


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## gnosh (Feb 8, 2011)

IAm5toned said:


> u need a subpanel and/or lighting contactor to switch 4k watts.....
> 
> its alot more than just a breaker


 Subpanel...that doesnt sound cheap....or easy...
I have 12 breaker spots open on the current panel is it possible to make the sub panel on that? I need to find a friend/family member that knows this shit lol


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## Marijuanito (Feb 8, 2011)

I had a question I was hoping smeone could help me with. I have a small breaker panel with a 100 amp main breaker. With the existing power already at the site of the future grow room i should i only need 2, maybe 3 at the most, 15 or 20 amp circuits. Do i need to have someone come out and change the panel over to a larger one with a bigger main breaker or can i have some sort of sub panel installed for the 2 or 3 circuits i need?


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## wyteboi (Feb 12, 2011)

Marijuanito said:


> I had a question I was hoping smeone could help me with. I have a small breaker panel with a 100 amp main breaker. With the existing power already at the site of the future grow room i should i only need 2, maybe 3 at the most, 15 or 20 amp circuits. Do i need to have someone come out and change the panel over to a larger one with a bigger main breaker or can i have some sort of sub panel installed for the 2 or 3 circuits i need?


If thats all the power you need then you will be fine with the 100 amp panel. Dont forget to count for the whole house an not just the grow room though. Add everything in the house up and dont go over 80 amps and you should be fine. If you heat water and the house with electricity then you might be close but if not then i am _guessing_ you are not gonna need to change anything.
If you need help adding things up just ask.....

soil


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## wyteboi (Feb 12, 2011)

gnosh said:


> Subpanel...that doesnt sound cheap....or easy...
> I have 12 breaker spots open on the current panel is it possible to make the sub panel on that? I need to find a friend/family member that knows this shit lol


how big is the main breaker in your current panel ? If 200 or more then you could run a 100 amp sub panel off of that and that would be good for 4k and all the fans, ect.... 
you dont _have _to use a sub panel but it would make things a lot easier on your self or the electrician doing the work. you could just run one single 15 amp circuit to each light and that would be alright too. (a 1k light is around 8.5 amps with a standard 110v outlet, an you can use 80% of the breaker to be safe , so running 12 amps would be ok on a 15 amp circuit.) there are several ways you could go about it though. 

sorry if i didnt make sense ... i tried though 



soil


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## jkiller0094 (Feb 12, 2011)

Can you get busted if your using a HIGHLY noticeable amount of electricity? If so, can you give me some advice on what you would call "pushing it"? thank you.


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## Plebscrubber (Feb 12, 2011)

Im running 2 x 400W HID lights, 1x 130W CFL, a 90W centrifugal fan, 2 x 39W inline fans, 2 x small oscilatting fans, 1 x large oscilatting fan, 2 x water pumps, 2 x air pumps

all from 1 x power outlet... is this ok? 

the wiring is pretty old... but the breaker never gets activated...

I have 2 x 15amp circuits for my house outlets, the grow room power outlet is on one of them, as well as half the power outlets in my house.

I was under the impression that it dosnt matter if you spread the load over many outlets or just one because they share the same circuit and breaker


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## MsBotwin (Feb 12, 2011)

My Hubby just ran Seperate electric to my grow closet. It's on a 15 amp circuit.
I am planning to switch from CFLs to a 400 Watt HPS and run a Veg. Area with 334 Actual Watts of CFLs. In Addition, I have a humidifier running 24/7, ditto a ceramic area heater, I am sure once I have the HPS I'll only need the heater during dark periods. I have 2 HydroFarm Emily's gardens, 1 for each area. Also an exhaust fan and an intake fan. Can a 15 amp circuit handle all of that?
Oh, yeah I'll have 1 outlet in my Veg area and 2 in my Flower area. One just for the HPS. Thanks for any advice you can give me!
EDIT: total power to the house is 200 amps, if that matters.


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## gnosh (Feb 13, 2011)

wyteboi said:


> how big is the main breaker in your current panel ? If 200 or more then you could run a 100 amp sub panel off of that and that would be good for 4k and all the fans, ect....
> you dont _have _to use a sub panel but it would make things a lot easier on your self or the electrician doing the work. you could just run one single 15 amp circuit to each light and that would be alright too. (a 1k light is around 8.5 amps with a standard 110v outlet, an you can use 80% of the breaker to be safe , so running 12 amps would be ok on a 15 amp circuit.) there are several ways you could go about it though.
> 
> sorry if i didnt make sense ... i tried though
> ...


 Thank you very much. 
After the research I did you filled in the missing spots great. 
It is a 200 amp main breaker. If I put in a 100 amp sub panel what size breakers should I use for the lights in the sub panel and should I put each light on its own breaker?
Thank you again


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## EmeraldBuddah (Feb 15, 2011)

I got an Electrical question so i have a 240v lumatek ballast and want to USE it but all my sockets in the garage where the grow room is are 120v how can i overcome this problem? I would like to get a lighting controller that has multiple 240v and 120v sockets but wouldnt know where and how to install it...hope you can help!


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## Danielsgb (Feb 15, 2011)

EmeraldBuddah said:


> I got an Electrical question so i have a 240v lumatek ballast and want to USE it but all my sockets in the garage where the grow room is are 120v how can i overcome this problem? I would like to get a lighting controller that has multiple 240v and 120v sockets but wouldn't know where and how to install it...hope you can help!


You need a 240v line from the Main Panel. So you need space in the panel for the new breaker for the line. How many A.'s is the Main? Usually 100A, or 150A or maybe 200A. How full is it? Pic if you could would help. Someone on here might be able to line you out to DIY but it's not simple.
Sounds like a job for a pro. You could say you want a 240v in the garage for a welder.. They use high loads. Are you in a Med. state? If the garage is full of plants maybe not as easy too. Hope that helps.
Daniels


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## EmeraldBuddah (Feb 16, 2011)

Danielsgb said:


> You need a 240v line from the Main Panel. So you need space in the panel for the new breaker for the line. How many A.'s is the Main? Usually 100A, or 150A or maybe 200A. How full is it? Pic if you could would help. Someone on here might be able to line you out to DIY but it's not simple.
> Sounds like a job for a pro. You could say you want a 240v in the garage for a welder.. They use high loads. Are you in a Med. state? If the garage is full of plants maybe not as easy too. Hope that helps.
> Daniels


 I am in a Med state and yes there are plants in the garage but black sheeting seperates the grow room, but i would want the lighting controller to be in the garage, i guess it wouldnt matter if it was in the actually grow room..i would just have to run extension cords that run from the lighting controller to the ballast...as for the main panel i will take pics tomorrow and post them and try to get any information on it...i also would like to know how people run the cords from the ballast and other electrical devices to the lighting controller without having cords everywhere! thanks for the help all!


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## Plebscrubber (Feb 16, 2011)

I have a lot of extension cords running between balasts and timers and fans, all neatly secured to the rails on the roof that also support the lights
I have a small desk that holds all the power boards and timers and each power lead is labeled so i know where it goes
Everything is tied up with cable ties
All electrical leads and gear is kept 2 foot above floor level incase of leaking water/flooding


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## juggalo666 (Feb 17, 2011)

i was thinking about get a ballast kit i was just wondering what is a good housing to put it in??


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## Danielsgb (Feb 17, 2011)

juggalo666 said:


> i was thinking about get a ballast kit i was just wondering what is a good housing to put it in??


Ammo boxes work good


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## hairpulledout (Feb 17, 2011)

Hello, I just decided to take on an extra patient and grow 12 plants for them, as well as the 12 I am allowed by law here in Michigan. Before I begin I am trying to beef up my infra-structure. I want to install a seperate breaker, and run an dedicated wire down into my basement to give me enough juice so I won't trip the breaker. My question is:
How many amps should my breaker be, if I am using a 430 hps for veg, a 1000 hps for flower, a fluoro for clones, 4-8 submersible water pumps(I do aero-ponics), 3-4 air pumps, and 2-3 fans to circulate air? Also, I am pretty sure I will be adding another 1000 hps to the mix. Also what type of wire should I run down to my grow room for this purpose? 
I would like to have an electrical station that will take care of it all. It would be cool to have like multiple 4-plug outlets, but I want to stay as affordable as possible, yet still be safe. I was a life-long carpenter, rough framing, and I had to do plenty of rough electrical, when our other jobs were slow, so I know a little, but I'm not what I would consider an electrical expert.
Any help you could offer would be greatly appreciated. You could also e-mail me at [email protected] if you'd like. I want to start asap. Thanks for any info you can share.


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## Danielsgb (Feb 17, 2011)

hairpulledout said:


> Hello, I just decided to take on an extra patient and grow 12 plants for them, as well as the 12 I am allowed by law here in Michigan. Before I begin I am trying to beef up my infra-structure. I want to install a seperate breaker, and run an dedicated wire down into my basement to give me enough juice so I won't trip the breaker. My question is:
> How many amps should my breaker be, if I am using a 430 hps for veg, a 1000 hps for flower, a fluoro for clones, 4-8 submersible water pumps(I do aero-ponics), 3-4 air pumps, and 2-3 fans to circulate air? Also, I am pretty sure I will be adding another 1000 hps to the mix. Also what type of wire should I run down to my grow room for this purpose?
> I would like to have an electrical station that will take care of it all. It would be cool to have like multiple 4-plug outlets, but I want to stay as affordable as possible, yet still be safe. I was a life-long carpenter, rough framing, and I had to do plenty of rough electrical, when our other jobs were slow, so I know a little, but I'm not what I would consider an electrical expert.
> Any help you could offer would be greatly appreciated. You could also e-mail me at [email protected] if you'd like. I want to start asap. Thanks for any info you can share.


Here is some info from IAm5toned. You have to add up everything's Watts to decide what breakers you need. Hope that helps.
Daniels
BTW putting your e-mail isn't a good idea IMHO


IAm5toned said:


> I've done the work for you. as far as tips on saving energy, to be brutally honest there really are not any that will make a big savings magically appear on your bill. the best trick, is running your lights @ nightime when at all possible, its easier for a/c to cool the grow @ night then it is during the day in the summer, and in the winter, it helps with your heating bill. if you plan on pulling some serious wattage, like greater than 2kw, then you can have the lights running on opposite phases (saw 1kw on blk phase one, and 1 kw on red phase 2) running large parallel loads on opposite phases can save you 5-8%, but like i said, it only works on large loads.
> all you really have to worry about is how your going to pay for his services.
> 
> *common continuous duty grow operation wattages based on voltage, with breaker and wire sizes. all wire sizes are based on thwn-2/thhn Cu conductors with a max run of 300'*
> ...


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## pushrod49 (Feb 17, 2011)

HI Bricktown79 and thanks for the offer. I've got a 6x12 room in the basement, opposite end of house from electric panal (about 60'). Panel is an old ITE Pushmatic (?) but I have a DP-30amp breaker not being used. I'm going to run a 1000 watt HPS for flowering room and a 400 watt MH in growing room. Can I make two separate runs of say, 10-2 wire, from the 30amp breaker and run each to its' own outlet to power each of the ballasts? I have other outlets available on different circuits for fans and other small amp items but am most concerned about the two ballasts. Any suggestions and guidence will be appreicated.


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## sladeofdark (Feb 17, 2011)

awesome man! you are right on time. I need to hire you for your expertise or some advice, i have just posted my basement and i didnt ask in the post b/c i knew no one would know but i need to know how to add some power to the side of the basement where my
setup will be. I need to do EXACTLY what you just did and build a panel, but im not sure what electrical i can use or if i might overload something. thanks in advanced.. here is my post

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/409769-help-needed-grow-room-design.html


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## hohosr (Feb 18, 2011)

My buddy lives out in the country and wants to go much bigger and maybe run 12-14 lights. He wants to avoid any problems on the power bill so he wants to get a natural gas generator to supply a bunch of the power but it seems confusing wiring it into the system. I know you have to get a switch to cut off power going into the line in case the power to the line goes down so you dont zap some lineman down the way. Can you hook this up directly to the system so the lights draw power from both sources at once? It would be wired in such that even if the lights were not on and the generator was going that it would actually be feeding electricity into the system and the power usage would be decreasing. This is the same way that solar panels or something like that would feed into the system wouldnt it be? He does not intend on buying a generator big enough to supply all of the power, just to take some of the burden off. 10k generator maybe.


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## meowth (Feb 19, 2011)

Can you use a universal power supply as a backup for a 600 watt lumatek ballast? I was looking at one that says it handles 900 watts for about $170. I would only need a 10 minute max continuation of power.


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## withoutAchance (Feb 19, 2011)

meowth said:


> Can you use a universal power supply as a backup for a 600 watt lumatek ballast? I was looking at one that says it handles 900 watts for about $170. I would only need a 10 minute max continuation of power.


yes ive set up casino surveilance rooms with ups just make sure its spec properly and your good to go.


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## withoutAchance (Feb 19, 2011)

hohosr said:


> My buddy lives out in the country and wants to go much bigger and maybe run 12-14 lights. He wants to avoid any problems on the power bill so he wants to get a natural gas generator to supply a bunch of the power but it seems confusing wiring it into the system. I know you have to get a switch to cut off power going into the line in case the power to the line goes down so you dont zap some lineman down the way. Can you hook this up directly to the system so the lights draw power from both sources at once? It would be wired in such that even if the lights were not on and the generator was going that it would actually be feeding electricity into the system and the power usage would be decreasing. This is the same way that solar panels or something like that would feed into the system wouldnt it be? He does not intend on buying a generator big enough to supply all of the power, just to take some of the burden off. 10k generator maybe.


for solar you negoiate with the power company holding you hostage for a 2 way meter with a gen u cant u would just need to decide what u would want to run off the gen and split that stuff off the grid and put it on a panle able to switch over to the gen and possible back to the grid but be real sure about ur switch ratings and connections and what is what.


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## Honkeycorn (Feb 19, 2011)

Hi Bricktown, 

Thanks for the thread and a chance to talk to someone who knows what they`re doing.

I recently added 5x 40w CFLS and a 250w HPS in one room.

Is using all that on a regular house circuit too much? is there any wiring or boxes to add/install for that amout of power coming from one room?


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## Danielsgb (Feb 19, 2011)

Honkeycorn said:


> Hi Bricktown,
> 
> Thanks for the thread and a chance to talk to someone who knows what they`re doing.
> 
> ...


Dude, that's only 450W, which from the chart above, smallest is a *15 amp breaker @ 120v = 1440w(12 amps actual) max 
*So you need to see what else is on the circuit & what the breaker is. But 450W on a outlet is OK. Hope that helps.*
Daniels
*


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## Honkeycorn (Feb 19, 2011)

Danielsgb said:


> Dude, that's only 450W, which from the chart above, smallest is a *15 amp breaker @ 120v = 1440w(12 amps actual) max
> *So you need to see what else is on the circuit & what the breaker is. But 450W on a outlet is OK. Hope that helps.*
> Daniels
> *


Thanks Bud! thats what I thought, but good to be sure now. I also have my Gaming computer on it but thats it so I think im fine.

+Rep!


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## Danielsgb (Feb 19, 2011)

Glad I could help.


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## Scroggsy (Feb 19, 2011)

Hi Daniel, I have a question for you.

I have run a 30amp double spur socket from a bedroom socket to the loft with 2.5mm twin and earth, the run is approximately 10 meters and does not run through any significant amount of insulation. How many watts can I safely hook up to this double socket?


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## Danielsgb (Feb 19, 2011)

Scroggsy said:


> Hi Daniel, I have a question for you.
> 
> I have run a 30amp double spur socket from a bedroom socket to the loft with 2.5mm twin and earth, the run is approximately 10 meters and does not run through any significant amount of insulation. How many watts can I safely hook up to this double socket?


I'm a long way from a expert on this stuff, but from IAm5toned's chart, it says *30 amp breaker @ 120v = 2880w(24 amps actual) max = #10 awg Cu wire, min
*but I have no clue what 2.5mm twin & earth is. I looked it up and I think it compares to a #14 awg. This is for a 300' run from the chart. One question is, are you in the US or Europe, in other words is it 120v or 240v? Not sure what double spur socket is either. You quoted meters and used loft, so thinking you may be in England or Europe/240v so it's *30 amp breaker @ 240v = 5760w(24 amps actual) max = #10 awg Cu wire, min
*It has #14 awg for 15A breakers in his charts too if you notice. Sorry I can't be more help.


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## Scroggsy (Feb 20, 2011)

Danielsgb said:


> I'm a long way from a expert on this stuff, but from IAm5toned's chart, it says *30 amp breaker @ 120v = 2880w(24 amps actual) max = #10 awg Cu wire, min*
> but I have no clue what 2.5mm twin & earth is. I looked it up and I think it compares to a #14 awg. This is for a 300' run from the chart. One question is, are you in the US or Europe, in other words is it 120v or 240v? Not sure what double spur socket is either. You quoted meters and used loft, so thinking you may be in England or Europe/240v so it's *30 amp breaker @ 240v = 5760w(24 amps actual) max = #10 awg Cu wire, min*
> It has #14 awg for 15A breakers in his charts too if you notice. Sorry I can't be more help.


Hi, yes im in the UK so it's 240v. A spur socket is a socket that you add using the rear terminals of another socket in the ring or a 30amp junction box connected into the ring. 2.5mm (twin and earth) cable is the standard cable used for most domestic ring circuits for power sockets here.

Thanks for the reply.


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## Danielsgb (Feb 20, 2011)

Scroggsy said:


> Hi, yes im in the UK so it's 240v. A spur socket is a socket that you add using the rear terminals of another socket in the ring or a 30amp junction box connected into the ring. 2.5mm (twin and earth) cable is the standard cable used for most domestic ring circuits for power sockets here.
> 
> Thanks for the reply.


I know even less of European wiring. When I lived in London a decade ago it was about school not plugs & wires.
If the wire is comparable to a US #14 awg then chart says 2880W on the 15A beaker, but a 30A is double that, but in the US the wire would be heavier. I'm not sure how you can find out. Maybe ask a store selling a Welder since they run 240v and pull large loads.
Sorry I can't help more.
Daniels


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## CapnBud (Feb 20, 2011)

help...my relay is clicking when ever i plug in the relays power cord.

View attachment 1452009

this is where i got the instructions
http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/grow-light-controller.asp


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## rich420ard (Feb 21, 2011)

HI Bricktown79 and thanks for the offer. I've got a 6x12 room in the basement, opposite end of house from electric panal (about 60'). Panel is an old ITE Pushmatic (?) but I have a DP-30amp breaker not being used. I'm going to run a 1000 watt HPS for flowering room and a 400 watt MH in growing room. Can I make two separate runs of say, 10-2 wire, from the 30amp breaker and run each to its' own outlet to power each of the ballasts? I have other outlets available on different circuits for fans and other small amp items but am most concerned about the two ballasts. Any suggestions and guidence will be appreicated. 

hey pushrod....im also a sparky. run one 10-2 from the breaker to a receptacle in one grow room. tap off that to the plug in the next grow room....dont put two sets of wire under breaker terminals. ​


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## rich420ard (Feb 21, 2011)

nope....just getting raped on the peak time rates, and maybe possibly heatin up the panel depending on the size


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## rich420ard (Feb 21, 2011)

Plebscrubber said:


> Im running 2 x 400W HID lights, 1x 130W CFL, a 90W centrifugal fan, 2 x 39W inline fans, 2 x small oscilatting fans, 1 x large oscilatting fan, 2 x water pumps, 2 x air pumps
> 
> all from 1 x power outlet... is this ok?
> 
> ...


is it a federal pacific panel? they dont always trip....which is very dangerous. do the breakers feel hot? i gotta fpe panel, and had a 15 amp breaker that didnt trip until 28 amps...thats how houses burn down


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## CapnBud (Feb 23, 2011)

CapnBud said:


> help...my relay is clicking when ever i plug in the relays power cord.
> 
> View attachment 1452009
> 
> ...



bump...please any ideas ?

30amp breaker 240v
10/3 cable coming from breaker into relay (10/3 grounded into the ground strip not common strip in my breakerbox)
14/3 cable with 240v 15a connector from relay to ballast

when i plug-in in the relay plug...it should click once and then you have power to all the plugs...currently it's non stop clicking


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## kevb123 (Feb 23, 2011)

hey! had a problem last time with fuses tripping in main fuse box due to overload as upstairs of house was using electric as well as the grow lights so thinking of running the new room on its own supply from main box as there are spare unused fuse trippers in the main box.
is it as simple as connecting thick grey wire to the new fuse tripper and a socket on the other end? or does it have to loop back to main box?
how much power can i safely run of a new circuit?
ideas welcome.
thx.


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## socalbuddha420 (Feb 25, 2011)

hey bricktown can you pm me i wanna know whats the most you spent on all the material to run 240v outlets to use less amps


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## grobofotwanky (Feb 25, 2011)

Is there a way to check the ampload on a circuit. A meter or something?


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## Scroggsy (Feb 26, 2011)

grobofotwanky said:


> Is there a way to check the ampload on a circuit. A meter or something?


Yes there is. Electricians have them for comissioning and carrying out safety checks.


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## SuperSize82 (Feb 26, 2011)

i have a question, i have an older home im currently living in, and im looking to use a spare room we currently have, im looking to start growing in, the home we live in is about 100 years old, i took a peak at the breaker and there currently no space to add anymore breakers, my main concernt is in the current room say for example in summer time if multple people run ac's it trips the breaker, the house is wired all kinda messed up, im looking to put maybe a few 2-3 600w HPS lights or 2 1000w HPS lights, and some kinda of exhaust system, timers ect, my main question is i doubt the current outlets in there can handle this, so im assuming id have to re-wire the whole room, which ive done wiring befor, i could do all the wire all the way to the circuit breaker or to the basement, i have a family member whosea master electrician, but i kinda dont want to give him any idea's of what im doing, now the question comes down to is for the amound of power i want to use for that setup, what type of wire ect should i run to the basement, all on 1 line or make it into 2 lines ? then the final question would be how to accomodate space in the box cause im pretty sure all the breakers have something going into each of them cause we had my cousin whose an electrician com and replace a few breakers that went bad, hell the current breaker box at times u can hear humming comming from it not sure if that means some lines might be getting towards overloading ect, im sry if this post is long but dont think theres no otherway of telling u about the house without u having a idea of what currently on it an idea of some of the appliances

6 bedrooms ( big house big family ) alot of lights/electronics always on
washer/dryer(electric dryer) we currently dont have a dryer cause it broke been using laundry mat but soon im sure we will have new one
oil furnace
pool filter for summer time 
electric stove


im not sure if theres some type of sub box or something that could be added on, or run some type of test during peak to get an idea of how much electricty is being used ect, kinda sucks cause was all hyped about doing my first grow but then i thought about the big picture cant do much without electricity...also what about the line for the dryer i know its a 220 or whatever that voltage is, could always opt for a gas dryer and maybe free up that line, any feedback would help


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 26, 2011)

grobofotwanky said:


> Is there a way to check the ampload on a circuit. A meter or something?


Do you want to see how much is being used ? An Amp clamp will do 

Or to put a variable load on it to see how much it can take? I'm sure there are, but gonna be expensive.


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## grobofotwanky (Feb 27, 2011)

BigBudBalls said:


> Do you want to see how much is being used ? An Amp clamp will do
> 
> Or to put a variable load on it to see how much it can take? I'm sure there are, but gonna be expensive.


 Where would this be clamped? Around black wire in breaker box on the circuit in question?


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## Optic1 (Feb 27, 2011)

I have a 50 amp circut under my home that is for a hot tub with GFI. Any reason i cant just move that to my grow room and go from there? I've never used it?


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## Limosnero (Mar 2, 2011)

I have question maybe someone can answer. Building a new grow in a basement. I have 200amp service, 100 going to the main part of the house and 2 pole 30 for the water pump, another single 20 for walking lights in the basement. Am I limited to 50 amps worth of breakers to add to the basement? I'm looking to run 5k worth of lights, some 8" vortex fans, dehumidifier/AC, fans and such. Second question, would I be better off trying to wire the 4k worth of lights on one circuit and a 40 amp heavy duty timer or maybe something like a flipflop and make 2 separate rooms for flower to accommodate a lower amp circuit? I would really like to set this up right as I have the opportunity to do so now, thanks


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## pigeon toe (Mar 2, 2011)

Optic1 said:


> I have a 50 amp circut under my home that is for a hot tub with GFI. Any reason i cant just move that to my grow room and go from there? I've never used it?


 if the tub has no use then go for it. cannibalize that puppy for a better use.


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## pigeon toe (Mar 2, 2011)

Limosnero said:


> I have question maybe someone can answer. Building a new grow in a basement. I have 200amp service, 100 going to the main part of the house and 2 pole 30 for the water pump, another single 20 for walking lights in the basement. Am I limited to 50 amps worth of breakers to add to the basement? I'm looking to run 5k worth of lights, some 8" vortex fans, dehumidifier/AC, fans and such. Second question, would I be better off trying to wire the 4k worth of lights on one circuit and a 40 amp heavy duty timer or maybe something like a flipflop and make 2 separate rooms for flower to accommodate a lower amp circuit? I would really like to set this up right as I have the opportunity to do so now, thanks


with 2 poles of 50amps left to work with you should be ok. you may have more available but you would need to do a amp reading at the main with the house powered up. you can only use 80 % of any breakers rating for continuous duty loads. but with 50 amps you you should have power to spare. but if you really are looking to maximize your usage then two seperate areas on flip flop is a excellent idea !!


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## fishwhistle (Mar 2, 2011)

OK im gonna give this a try,im building a 20x20 room and in it ill be running 4 1000s in a flower room,a 400 and some fluorescents in the veg room and of course a bunch of fans for cooling fixtures and air movement,A/C also.I have to put in a sub panel and the run to it is approximately 300' from the panel on the house,i want to be able to add more lights later if i feel the need,what size sub panel do i need?I have already buried the conduit to the site when i had some other electrical work done,so its just a matter of pulling wire and hooking up as soon as the room is built.Thanks for any insight you can provide!


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## Optic1 (Mar 2, 2011)

thanks guys for the help +rep


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## guerillastyle (Mar 3, 2011)

Hey guys, I have an issue where I need to deliver power, but there are no outlets. There are a couple of electrical boxes, and lines as well. I was wondering if I could simply just tap into and existing line that powers a small powered light or so. Or would I have to go directly to the box? I am only planning on running 200 watts of cfls, a couple small fans for ventilation and that would be it. I imagine this would not put a huge load on the circuit.


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## Danielsgb (Mar 3, 2011)

Running a thick extension cord or two is way easier. It can be done, but you need some wiring knowledge so it's safe. Your question isn't too clear for what you mean to tap into, but go with some cords since it's only Cfl, etc.


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## BigBudBalls (Mar 3, 2011)

grobofotwanky said:


> Where would this be clamped? Around black wire in breaker box on the circuit in question?


Yeah pretty much. but you need to go around a single wire. Don't try to clap an ext cord


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## SweetLeaf88 (Mar 3, 2011)

Hi, and thanks in advance to anyne wh can help me with this:

So far I've wired 6 CFL bulbs quite easily, by cannibalizing lamp cords for he plug end. Now I have three more lights I want to add, but no more dead lamps, so I picked up some plugs that I can wire myself, but they don't look as straightforward as the other wiring I've done. 

There's only one hole to run the wires in through, so do you need to keep insulation around all the way til they meet the little metal claws in the plug? I'm assuming they can't touch or it will short, but the space inside this plug is so small I don't see how to get the wire ends in there and wrap them around anything securely. The whole thing just makes me nervous, so I guess the more important question is this- what other appliances have cords of the same type as lamps, that I might be able to use the plugs from instead of going nuts trying to make my own plugs?

I have plenty of other dead appliances around, and extension cords I don't need...or are lamp cords unique in some way?


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## tycobb48 (Mar 3, 2011)

Noob question about my main panel before I get into anything else (not that the back and forth going on isn't entertaining) - My home inspector said I have a 'commercial' sized panel, he was surprised at it actually. The top has two pairs of main switches, both pairs labeled at 100 amps - the question is, how do I define this in terms of total power? The panel has approx 20 open slots. Thanks! PS - Don't do it - the elec company will find you and wreck your day - but if you really want to do it - Mike Holmes, of the show Holmes on Homes, refurbed a grow house where they had tapped in through the foundation and rewwired the whole house - real clean setup - I think they had added 3 extra panels to the house. Two floor cape, 1 gallon pots EVERYWHERE. But I digress...


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## Danielsgb (Mar 4, 2011)

I love Holmes. Some wiring he finds is un-believable. So fucking dangerous. See the episode from a rental that did all kinds of damage running a Hydro set up?
No clue on that panel, but sounds promising for a correct set up.
Daniels


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## CapnBud (Mar 4, 2011)

CapnBud said:


> bump...please any ideas ?
> 
> 30amp breaker 240v
> 10/3 cable coming from breaker into relay (10/3 grounded into the ground strip not common strip in my breakerbox)
> ...


*I still need help people*
new relay did not resolve issue.
still clicking


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## fishwhistle (Mar 4, 2011)

fishwhistle said:


> OK im gonna give this a try,im building a 20x20 room and in it ill be running 4 1000s in a flower room,a 400 and some fluorescents in the veg room and of course a bunch of fans for cooling fixtures and air movement,A/C also.I have to put in a sub panel and the run to it is approximately 300' from the panel on the house,i want to be able to add more lights later if i feel the need,what size sub panel do i need?I have already buried the conduit to the site when i had some other electrical work done,so its just a matter of pulling wire and hooking up as soon as the room is built.Thanks for any insight you can provide!


BUMP,anyone?


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## mrjonesez (Mar 7, 2011)

tycobb48 said:


> Noob question about my main panel before I get into anything else (not that the back and forth going on isn't entertaining) - My home inspector said I have a 'commercial' sized panel, he was surprised at it actually. The top has two pairs of main switches, both pairs labeled at 100 amps - the question is, how do I define this in terms of total power? The panel has approx 20 open slots. Thanks! PS - Don't do it - the elec company will find you and wreck your day - but if you really want to do it - Mike Holmes, of the show Holmes on Homes, refurbed a grow house where they had tapped in through the foundation and rewwired the whole house - real clean setup - I think they had added 3 extra panels to the house. Two floor cape, 1 gallon pots EVERYWHERE. But I digress...


your panel has 200 amps of power available or 48000 watts at 240 volts or 24000 per phase (hot wire). If you add up everything in your house then its probably over 48000 but everything is never on at the same time so those switches never trip. If you try and pull power before the meter then the grid will show that power is missing. if its only a little bit of power then they dont come out. If its alot, they then get off their lazy asses and track it to a certain substation then they go to each neighborhood until they find the right neighborhood. they will catch you, it might take time. might take an experienced electrician a couple days to find it.


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## mrjonesez (Mar 7, 2011)

SweetLeaf88 said:


> Hi, and thanks in advance to anyne wh can help me with this:
> 
> So far I've wired 6 CFL bulbs quite easily, by cannibalizing lamp cords for he plug end. Now I have three more lights I want to add, but no more dead lamps, so I picked up some plugs that I can wire myself, but they don't look as straightforward as the other wiring I've done.
> 
> ...


wow, most plugs have someting inside the actual plug to screw the wire down with. I wouldnt just wrap a wire around a prong, you can cause arc and burn your house down with the breaker never tripping. Instead, go buy about ten pull chain fixtures (you see them in garages alot) and wire them together using yellow romex with the proper connectors if needed. then get the power back to your switch or plug. You also need a metal box to screw the fixtures to. yeah man, the box is meant for extinguishing fires before they burn something like your match stick house.


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## mrjonesez (Mar 7, 2011)

guerillastyle said:


> Hey guys, I have an issue where I need to deliver power, but there are no outlets. There are a couple of electrical boxes, and lines as well. I was wondering if I could simply just tap into and existing line that powers a small powered light or so. Or would I have to go directly to the box? I am only planning on running 200 watts of cfls, a couple small fans for ventilation and that would be it. I imagine this would not put a huge load on the circuit.


thats fine if what you say is true. it sounds like the existing circuit has plenty of power available. you can load a 15a circuit to 1440 watts and a 20amp to 1920 safely


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## smokey007 (Mar 7, 2011)

got a prob i dont no how to wire a 250 watt hps sodium ballast any help


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## Danielsgb (Mar 7, 2011)

http://www.onlinepot.org/grow/wiringlights.htm
Here you go.


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## sucky# (Mar 7, 2011)

how's all!,just wondering how many cfl's can be wired into 1 plug??anyone...


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## mrjonesez (Mar 7, 2011)

smokey007 said:


> got a prob i dont no how to wire a 250 watt hps sodium ballast any help


well, i imagine its one of those ballasts that has a ton of wires to choose from. find the lead that says common, thats your white wire(neutral) the one labeled 120 is your hot. hope that helps. dont mess with the other wires, they should be pre wired for you. alot of those types of ballasts give you an option of 120,240,208,277 or 480. make sure those are capped off and not wired in.


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## mrjonesez (Mar 7, 2011)

CapnBud said:


> *I still need help people*
> new relay did not resolve issue.
> still clicking


 i have a solution that you may have overlooked. The coil voltage of your relay must match the voltage coming in. test the voltage across the numbers 2 and 7 (if its an ice cube relay) that needs to match the coil voltage stamped right on top of the relay. not the contact rating, the coil rating. If you accidently feed a 240 relay with 110 it will click like that.


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## everyday.smoker (Mar 8, 2011)

Hey,

Could You please help me with this.
I want to connect fan with dimmer - no problem here. Then I want to connect same fan with termostat. The idea is that I turn dimmer halfway but if temps are getting to high the termostat turns it to full power. Is that possible? And is there any way to use heater termostat for fan (reverse switching - when temps gets to high it turns on)

ty


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## Danielsgb (Mar 8, 2011)

Usually a 110v fan motor isn't designed for lower speeds. It will fail much sooner. For thermostats look into one with AC controls, since they are made to kick a heater on if too cold, or an AC on if too hot.


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## smokey007 (Mar 8, 2011)

yeah alot of wires!! it came pre wired with the cap and igniter but its two com wires on the small side which do i hook up to the lamp and how will i ground it


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## IAm5toned (Mar 9, 2011)

everyday.smoker said:


> Hey,
> 
> Could You please help me with this.
> I want to connect fan with dimmer - no problem here. Then I want to connect same fan with termostat. The idea is that I turn dimmer halfway but if temps are getting to high the termostat turns it to full power. Is that possible? And is there any way to use heater termostat for fan (reverse switching - when temps gets to high it turns on)
> ...


what you are reffering to, can be done, there is even a name for it... a _parallel switchleg  _however, you will also need to incorporate a relay into the circuit if you want to do it right, or else you risk back feeding the controller with line voltage, and thats never good.

peace!
however, some advice- toss that dimmer switch and get a _motor speed controller _or a _fan speed controller_, both common items that can be found at most big box hardware stores.
dimmer switches are for lights, not motors... theres a difference!


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## tycobb48 (Mar 10, 2011)

mrjonesez said:


> your panel has 200 amps of power available or 48000 watts at 240 volts or 24000 per phase (hot wire). If you add up everything in your house then its probably over 48000 but everything is never on at the same time so those switches never trip. If you try and pull power before the meter then the grid will show that power is missing. if its only a little bit of power then they dont come out. If its alot, they then get off their lazy asses and track it to a certain substation then they go to each neighborhood until they find the right neighborhood. they will catch you, it might take time. might take an experienced electrician a couple days to find it.


Thanks for the panel info. That is helpful +rep - is that the way most houses are wired?

As far as taping under the meter - not me - I'm not that foolish, especially since my less than liberal father in law works as a line supervisor for the local company. Don't need that grief.


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## humboldt hippie (Mar 10, 2011)

hey brick -
just bought 10 acres in a very choice area. plan on building a house this summer. property is 100% off grid. very good sun, some wind, but my understanding is that i would need an acre of solar panels, a container full of batteries and some ginormous wind generators to produce the 5kw that i want. of course diesel gen is the standard for this situation but i was wondering if you know much about fuel cells? seems like the most elegant solution to me. ive researched and found i can get the fuel cell for about 10k and a seperator/hydrogyn generator for about 10k more. i just cant find anybody knowledgable to advise me on the rest. exhaustive internet searches have not uncovered the 'expert' that i need. any suggestions? thanks, humboldt hippie


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## P00T (Mar 10, 2011)

Hey Brick, and other electrically educated folk. 

I need to relocate my medical grow to the shed in order to get a floor poured in the basement. (Unless of course I'm able to find a contractor who doesn't have an issue with it)
Currently, I run a 240v lumatek ballast (dual 600W) on a 30A circuit, and everything else on a 15A. All comming from a seperate panel which is fed from a 55A in the main.

I would like to be able to run my 240v ballast out in the shed.
Power will have to run 100', and I have procured quite the beefy 10/3 20A cord.

Questions - I know that all of the different 5-15 and 6-30 plugs/recipticles are designed to ensure we don't acidentally miss match. Is there any reason that I can't utilize a standard out-door recepticle, but wire it for 220 vs. 110 then utilize the fat extension cord as a feed into the shed?

Thanks in advance,
P00T


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## mrjonesez (Mar 10, 2011)

smokey007 said:


> yeah alot of wires!! it came pre wired with the cap and igniter but its two com wires on the small side which do i hook up to the lamp and how will i ground it


wires on the small side, hmmm. one of the wires should say lamp on it, that goes to the black coming from the lamp. if a common doesnt say lamp just take the common from your lamp and the two other commons and wire to your common coming in. i have done alot of these but its kinda hard to remember without seeing a diagram. id just hook it up like that and fire it up. watch out for that capacitor, even with the juice turned off it can zap you. if you want to, post the diagram that is on the ballast and i can tell you for sure.


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## mrjonesez (Mar 10, 2011)

oh, and the ground usually goes to the metal frame that the ballast and all these parts are fastened on. it will be grounded like that.


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## Uncle Jimmy (Mar 10, 2011)

Got 2x1000w lights . I made a homemade electric box outta wood with 4 receptacles and ran a dedicated line to my breaker box. Is this over kill ? Still run fans pumps stuff like that off of the wall sockets. I just felt better about a dedicated line for the lights . Whats your thoughts ?


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## mrjonesez (Mar 11, 2011)

Uncle Jimmy said:


> Got 2x1000w lights . I made a homemade electric box outta wood with 4 receptacles and ran a dedicated line to my breaker box. Is this over kill ? Still run fans pumps stuff like that off of the wall sockets. I just felt better about a dedicated line for the lights . Whats your thoughts ?


 the code recommends a 20 amp circuit have no more than 1920 watts at 120 volts of continuous power. the breaker is designed to trip at 2400watts. grow lights are considered continuous, so your actually over the edge on what is recommended. your pushing somewhere around 2100 watts continuous. 
Its always a good idea to dedicate circuits just for the lights. Just count the watts (on the ballast, not the bulb). One circuit or your existing circuit should take care of anything else you want to plug in unless its huge like a heater.


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## mrjonesez (Mar 11, 2011)

tycobb48 said:


> Thanks for the panel info. That is helpful +rep - is that the way most houses are wired?
> 
> As far as taping under the meter - not me - I'm not that foolish, especially since my less than liberal father in law works as a line supervisor for the local company. Don't need that grief.


 yeah, most are done that way unless the house owner asks for a 400a service. if you take a normal electric heater that is standard around here, it is rated at 20,000 watts. thats almost half of your 200amp service alone.


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## smokey007 (Mar 11, 2011)

having trouble adding pic but still need help i dont know which wires go to the lamp which wire goes the wall and which i use to ground to the box


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## mrjonesez (Mar 11, 2011)

hey man,at the top of the page type in ballast diagram capacitor . then go to the thread labeled 'wiring a HPS ballast?? help??' at the bottom of that first page someone has a nice picture on how to do it. you will be fine if you follow that. just about every device needs a common just about. fire that thing up!! let me know if it worked.


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## Evo8Emperor (Mar 12, 2011)

I've got a dilemma going on I can't seem to figure out. I was rearranging my grow room in my apartment. Its a 12x14 office on a 15a gfci breaker that's also tied in with my living room.

So after I was gone going to plug everything back in mind you I have no lights on in my grow tent either. But everytime I got to plug my pumps and compressors in the breaker pops.

I tested everything alone and nothing pops. But if I got to plug anything else in along with my t-5 that's on my clones the breaker pops. I have ran an extension cord from my room and its running the 3 sub pumps in my aeroponic bins.

I was thinking the breaker shit the bed so I switched it with my kitchen 20amp breaker and its still doing the same shit. I have nothing in water besides my pumps and everything works as long as its not plugged into the office plugs now.

Got any ideas ? Thanks..


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## Slab (Mar 12, 2011)

I can't find any definitive info on why you can't . I have the agro sun gold 1000watt MH horizontal bulb and I would like to hang it vertically. thank you for helping!


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## benny blanco (Mar 12, 2011)

Will I blow a fuse if I run my 1000hps and a 10000btu portable a/c on the same surge protector?


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## jack ripa (Mar 12, 2011)

I have a question for the electrician if he is in.

Can I run a dual receptacle on a single 240v line? I am thinking not but I might be wrong. 

I have 4 1000w 240v HPS to run. I have an 8 light (sentinel) controller and I am figuring on running the unused dryer wire through the attic to the garage and into a ceiling receptacle to plug the controller to. My light controller uses a separate timer so I would like to be able to run another plug/timer for a single 240v 600watt light for the veg chamber in the same space. Thus the need for two receptacles. It seems like it should be possible but I don't think it's as simple as running the wires to both plugs with a common ground like 120v.


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## Honkeycorn (Mar 16, 2011)

I also have a question for the electrician if he is in.

I want to wire a toggle switch to into a extention cord between the wall outlet and the load, As an emergerncy switch for my growdrobe.

What type of switch should I use? (SPST or DPST) not to sure for a grounded extention cord.

Also detailed wiring instructions would be nice.

Any help is appreciated.

​


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## n00bGrower (Mar 17, 2011)

I have a question regarding re-wiring my Sunsystem 150w HPS (http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/itemdesc.asp?ic=HLCSHPS015SS) so I can put it into a DIY CoolTube (https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/121080-diy-cool-tube-how.html) I already have all the plans and materials for making the tube, but I need some assistance wiring the remote ballast. I opened the light last night and have a few questions... 

1) The ignitor says that the ballast cannot be further than 2 feet from the lamp. OK, no big deal. I'd like to have it further away, but I guess I make 2 feet work.
2) I'm used to having 3 wires to deal with (B/W/G or Live/Neutral/Ground) and seeing the B/W coming from the fixture and then into the switch, only to come out and go into the ballast and ignitor, makes me nervous; never wired anything that needed a ballast or ignitor except my t5 tubes, but that was just (B/W/G).

I'm all sorts of confused about how to wire it. I'd like to omit the switch entirely and just have my timer regulate when to supply power. I'm at work and can't put up any pics of the unit and I can't seem to find a wiring diagram. I'm sure this is a simple project, but as with anything "It's only easy if you know EXACTLY what you're doing".

Thanks!


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## smokey007 (Mar 17, 2011)

just stopping by to say thanks for ur help and that site helped alot i wired it up and it fired straight up and its really bright not loud as people say im so excited. now im with the big dogs lol


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## mrjonesez (Mar 19, 2011)

benny blanco said:


> Will I blow a fuse if I run my 1000hps and a 10000btu portable a/c on the same surge protector?


 Hey, it depends on the voltage your feeding it with and the size of your breaker. A 20a breaker is good for 1920 watts at 120volts. if your running 240volts then you have almost 4000 available for use.


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## mrjonesez (Mar 19, 2011)

jack ripa said:


> I have a question for the electrician if he is in.
> 
> Can I run a dual receptacle on a single 240v line? I am thinking not but I might be wrong.
> 
> I have 4 1000w 240v HPS to run. I have an 8 light (sentinel) controller and I am figuring on running the unused dryer wire through the attic to the garage and into a ceiling receptacle to plug the controller to. My light controller uses a separate timer so I would like to be able to run another plug/timer for a single 240v 600watt light for the veg chamber in the same space. Thus the need for two receptacles. It seems like it should be possible but I don't think it's as simple as running the wires to both plugs with a common ground like 120v.


Ya, just use the right plugs. they will say 240volt on them. You can go from one to another and another and another if you want. its up to you not to overload it though.


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## Chem Dawg (Mar 19, 2011)

How do dimmable ballasts work? Is the wattage output actually cut back or does the ballasts always put out the max output and just dimm the lamps?


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## mrjonesez (Mar 19, 2011)

Honkeycorn said:


> I also have a question for the electrician if he is in.
> 
> I want to wire a toggle switch to into a extention cord between the wall outlet and the load, As an emergerncy switch for my growdrobe.
> 
> ...


make sure you use the proper connectors and secure a box somehow to the wall or something. if you are running 240 then dp switch. 120 is only a sp switch, you are just switching the hot and not the common. you can splice the common in the switch box but dont break it with the switch. the hot goes in on one screw and comes out on the other to the load. doesnt matter which screw as long is its not the green one. that is the ground.


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## sso (Mar 19, 2011)

how far can a mh bulb be wired from the ballast? (400w)

how long can the wires be?


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## mrjonesez (Mar 19, 2011)

Chem Dawg said:


> How do dimmable ballasts work? Is the wattage output actually cut back or does the ballasts always put out the max output and just dimm the lamps?


it uses the same watts no matter what. so for anyone listening, you can quit thinking your saving money on these things. it just burns off the excess energy in heat!! now after i said all of that i will retract that statement if anyone knows if these ballasts let you remove your 1000watt bulb and let you install a 400 in its place. then i would actually think about buying one of those overpriced ballasts.
If the bulb is rated for 1000 watts then it is going to pull that 1000 watts no matter what.


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## leftcoastnewf (Mar 20, 2011)

Im sorry if this is a repeat, 120+ pages is a lot to scan through. I have a T103 timer and I would like to run 240. I know that it has a 120v clock. The set up is like this... 240v coming from sub via 8-3 cable to timer 240v to 8 1000w hps and a constant 120v outlets for what have you. Thanks in advance.

Cheers.


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## pazuzu420 (Mar 20, 2011)

mrjonesez said:


> it uses the same watts no matter what. so for anyone listening, you can quit thinking your saving money on these things. it just burns off the excess energy in heat!! now after i said all of that i will retract that statement if anyone knows if these ballasts let you remove your 1000watt bulb and let you install a 400 in its place. then i would actually think about buying one of those overpriced ballasts.
> If the bulb is rated for 1000 watts then it is going to pull that 1000 watts no matter what.


Finally! Someone is speaking the truth. They have put a large hype behind digital ballasts and neglect to tell the consumer the real facts about the product such as it still uses the same amount of wattage wether it is dimmed or not. Also, they don't tell you that you have to use a bulb that is rated for a digital ballast as it runs at a much higher Hz.

Correct me if I'm wrong...I'm just happy to see some sense come to the world..

I own a lumatek 400w dial-a-watt (dimmable) ballast


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## mrjonesez (Mar 20, 2011)

n00bGrower said:


> I have a question regarding re-wiring my Sunsystem 150w HPS (http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/itemdesc.asp?ic=HLCSHPS015SS) so I can put it into a DIY CoolTube (https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/121080-diy-cool-tube-how.html) I already have all the plans and materials for making the tube, but I need some assistance wiring the remote ballast. I opened the light last night and have a few questions...
> 
> 1) The ignitor says that the ballast cannot be further than 2 feet from the lamp. OK, no big deal. I'd like to have it further away, but I guess I make 2 feet work.
> 2) I'm used to having 3 wires to deal with (B/W/G or Live/Neutral/Ground) and seeing the B/W coming from the fixture and then into the switch, only to come out and go into the ballast and ignitor, makes me nervous; never wired anything that needed a ballast or ignitor except my t5 tubes, but that was just (B/W/G).
> ...


a page or two ago i referenced a drawing someone had on the forum. follow that. i understand being intimidated by it, i too get intimidated and Ive wired alot of these types of lights. You should read up on how to de-energize a capacitor if your going to be working on these things. capacitors store energy even with the power off.


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## mrjonesez (Mar 20, 2011)

leftcoastnewf said:


> Im sorry if this is a repeat, 120+ pages is a lot to scan through. I have a T103 timer and I would like to run 240. I know that it has a 120v clock. The set up is like this... 240v coming from sub via 8-3 cable to timer 240v to 8 1000w hps and a constant 120v outlets for what have you. Thanks in advance.
> 
> Cheers.


you should get a 240 volt clock because a 120 volt would always have half your circuit hot and I never have liked that even though its legal to do it that way. Not sure what your asking in the rest. the proper way to do it is feed a subpanel with your #8 wire then reduce to 20 amps for the lighting, you cant just take 40amps to a lighting circuit.


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## MoJobud (Mar 22, 2011)

Tried sending you a PM but its full. Thanks for any help you can give me regarding if I have enough power in my warehouse for my needs.

What is the best way to trace and test breaker to the outlet?

Is there a way to test the wiring so I can be sure it can sustain heavy loads before actually wiring up and running the system?

Thanks


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## WeeGogs (Mar 22, 2011)

will a 16amp, 240v, 4000w max, immersion heater timer run 2 x 600w hps units at a time and handle the surge, the set up is wired through a 32 amp mcb, then a 30ma rcd , and then a 13 amp fused plug to 16amp immersion timer then 2 x 600w hps set ups. seems to work ok during test but what will 18 hours do. all for except one of the ballast cables that connects to the lamp unit has a push in type connector (the type at the back of a large plasma tv or kettle ) that is getting hot, i will cut and reconnect that with a more secure and tight fitting.


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## mrjonesez (Mar 22, 2011)

MoJobud said:


> Tried sending you a PM but its full. Thanks for any help you can give me regarding if I have enough power in my warehouse for my needs.
> 
> What is the best way to trace and test breaker to the outlet?
> 
> ...


ya, the way i do it is i plug in something loud like a vac and shut breakers till the right one turns off then label it. then see what else is on the circuit that is now dead. all you need to do is count the watts that your loading the circuit. example, a 400watt light 50watt fan etc.... if you know your under the watts for a 20 amp breaker and it trips then you need a new breaker. it happens, they get weak over time.
fyi- a 20amp breaker at 120volts holds 2400 watts but your really only supposed to load it to 80% which is 1920watts

dont worry about the wire, it can take the load.


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## mrjonesez (Mar 22, 2011)

WeeGogs said:


> will a 16amp, 240v, 4000w max, immersion heater timer run 2 x 600w hps units at a time and handle the surge, the set up is wired through a 32 amp mcb, then a 30ma rcd , and then a 13 amp fused plug to 16amp immersion timer then 2 x 600w hps set ups. seems to work ok during test but what will 18 hours do. all for except one of the ballast cables that connects to the lamp unit has a push in type connector (the type at the back of a large plasma tv or kettle ) that is getting hot, i will cut and reconnect that with a more secure and tight fitting.


im having a little trouble following you but in regards to the timer, it will take it easy. Where those things get into trouble is with big motors which has a huge in rush. these hid's start out with just a little and get brighter and brighter eventually working up to 600watts.
the thing about electricity is the wire is going to get warm when under a heavy load. everyone should be using the beefy 12 or 14 gauge cords. its ok for a cord to be warm under these loads. there might be a problem if its hot or close to meltdown ( it will have the consistency of a noodle). then you know there is a loose connection or something.


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## WeeGogs (Mar 22, 2011)

thanks, mr. jonesez. you are a diamond. do you think i would be better lowering my consumer unit 32 amp mcb to 16 amp mcb, would that give me more protection if for example i had equipment failure that could cause a fire and maybe trip before a fire started, i put the rcd sockets in because the guy that shares my large grow area is a complete idiot when it comes to electricity (yes he has already had a 32amp shock and it was i that nearly had the heart attack) and i put the 3 x 2 gang rcd sockets in to protect him from a sunday morning fry up. so we have 6 rcd sockets running from 2 x 32 amp mcbs. 4 sockets from 1 and 2 from the other with no other power usage from them. safety is paramount we live in a high rise with 240v supply only.


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## jack ripa (Mar 24, 2011)

mrjonesez said:


> Ya, just use the right plugs. they will say 240volt on them. You can go from one to another and another and another if you want. its up to you not to overload it though.


Ok, so I have a 30 amp 240v line running to an 8 light controller that I plan on having 7k of lights on, right now it's 5600 watts and running fine. I assume that 7k is gonna be too much. I ran 10 guage wire so can I just change out the breaker to a 50 amp and be ok?

Also, is running another 240v 30 amp line as simple as adding a breaker? I will obviously want an electrician doing the work but I am just wondering. This is a newer large home. I assume there'd be 100a service, does that sound right?


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## r8rdrew (Mar 24, 2011)

Ok, i tried to find it and there is 263 pages. Thought I would just ask and save myself 3 hours of searching. SORRY if this has been answered already.
So. i want to pre meter tap my power. I know I can use a clamp to tap in. 
The question I have is, what to look out for. any tips or a better process then the one I know.
For example, Wouold it be ok to just carefully place a wire nut on the end of the 2 gauge feeds and some tape to pull them through the galvenized pipe to make the cut on the pipe to placet the clamps?
Where is the best place to get clamps?
And is the 8gauge wire with a 50amp breaker ok for 6 1000w ballasts?


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## mrjonesez (Mar 24, 2011)

WeeGogs said:


> thanks, mr. jonesez. you are a diamond. do you think i would be better lowering my consumer unit 32 amp mcb to 16 amp mcb, would that give me more protection if for example i had equipment failure that could cause a fire and maybe trip before a fire started, i put the rcd sockets in because the guy that shares my large grow area is a complete idiot when it comes to electricity (yes he has already had a 32amp shock and it was i that nearly had the heart attack) and i put the 3 x 2 gang rcd sockets in to protect him from a sunday morning fry up. so we have 6 rcd sockets running from 2 x 32 amp mcbs. 4 sockets from 1 and 2 from the other with no other power usage from them. safety is paramount we live in a high rise with 240v supply only.


sounds like your definitely on the right track. the very best protection you could have is a ground fault circuit interupter GFI breaker or outlet. those save lives and shut the circuit down if it senses current going someplace where it shouldnt, like your body. 
it works by making sure the same amount of power is coming back on the common as going out on the hot. thats why its important to hook up grounds, so if current for instance leaked out on the metal body of a device it would then kill the circuit. it helps in fire prevention too because if two wires melted together it would shut off.


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## dannyboy602 (Mar 24, 2011)

how many 1000 hps lamps can be sutained by a 20 amp breaker box...i wanna expand but dont want to oveload the breaker box
thanks


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## jack ripa (Mar 24, 2011)

From what's been said so far I think about 4k could go on a 20 amp.


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## Danielsgb (Mar 24, 2011)

dannyboy602 said:


> how many 1000 hps lamps can be sutained by a 20 amp breaker box...i wanna expand but dont want to oveload the breaker box
> thanks


From IAm5toned. so 1920W and a 1000W ballast uses 10% extra, unless it's a digital, or 1100W. So 1 if I get that right.
*common continuous duty grow operation wattages based on voltage, with breaker and wire sizes. all wire sizes are based on thwn-2/thhn Cu conductors with a max run of 300'
 breaker size----volts------ max wattage allowed ----smallest wire size allowed 
*

*15 amp breaker @ 120v = 1440w(12 amps actual) max = #14 awg Cu wire, min*
* 20 amp breaker @ 120v = 1920w(16 amps actual) max = #12 awg Cu wire, min*
* 30 amp breaker @ 120v = 2880w(24 amps actual) max = #10 awg Cu wire, min*
* 40 amp breaker @ 120v = 3840w(32 amps actual) max = #8 awg Cu wire, min*
* 60 amp breaker @ 120v = 5760w(48 amps actual) max = #6 awg Cu wire, min*
* 100 amp breaker @ 120v = 9600w(80 amps actual) max = #3 awg Cu wire, min*


*15 amp breaker @ 240v = 2880w(12 amps actual) max = #14 awg Cu wire, min*
* 20 amp breaker @ 240v = 3840w(16 amps actual) max = #12 awg Cu wire, min*
* 30 amp breaker @ 240v = 5760w(24 amps actual) max = #10 awg Cu wire, min*
* 40 amp breaker @ 240v = 7680w(32 amps actual) max = #8 awg Cu wire, min*
* 60 amp breaker @ 240v = 11520w(48 amps actual) max = #6 awg Cu wire, min*
*100 amp breaker @ 240v= 19200w(80 amps actual) max = #3 awg Cu wire, min*


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## WeeGogs (Mar 25, 2011)

hey sparky this is true. i live in a tower block with 18 floors, i live on the 7th, my electric meter is situated in a cupboard that has its back to a bedroom and is 100 amp+ and 240v , the guy that fitted the single main fuse inadvertently left just enough room on the crimped seal wire to pull out the fuse that disconnects my meter, so i removed the fuse and that gave me access to a screw that removes a cover that conceals the neutral wire connection plate now i can see the the two connector plates, so i drilled straight through them both, (the disconnected from live side of course), right through the single main fuse box with a 5.5mm drillbit, i removed the main fuse box and slowly pulled it forward just enough for me to go through the 5.5mm holes behind in the wall with a 13mm spade end drill bit straight in to the bedroom, i removed a large portion of the plasterboard in the bedroom and then got my hands on some 25mm cable and stripped out 3 feet of red live and the same of black neutral, i pushed the live through the hole in the back of the box which was still dead as the fuse was removed, and the same with the black, i took an earth feed from my main consumer unit above my meter through the wall too, i bought a 5 - way small consumer box with a 100 amp isolator and 2 x 32 amp mcb (miniature circuit breaker) i have connected 1 mcb to two x two gang rcd (residual current device) sockets in a ring and the other to a 2 gang rcd socket, so now i have 3 double rcd sockets, 1 separate ring from the other two. i run every thing from these 6 rcd sockets including 2 separate 16 amp immersion heater timers to run my lights all connected through 13 amp fused plugs. when i go out i am paranoid as hell. what do you think, i am only running about 3500 watts total for 18 hours from this. i then put every thing back in order in the meter cupboard and i still get charged for power for the rest of my house, the guy that is manager of the tower block came to see me and he opened my meter cupboard as i had my kitchen rewired 2 weeks before i did this, and he didnt smell a rat. i am waiting on the meter reader who comes every six months to read it soon. but i am totally paranoid about fire.


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## IAm5toned (Mar 25, 2011)

WeeGogs said:


> hey sparky this is true. i live in a tower block with 18 floors, i live on the 7th, my electric meter is situated in a cupboard that has its back to a bedroom and is 100 amp+ and 240v , the guy that fitted the single main fuse inadvertently left just enough room on the crimped seal wire to pull out the fuse that disconnects my meter, so i removed the fuse and that gave me access to a screw that removes a cover that conceals the neutral wire connection plate now i can see the the two connector plates, so i drilled straight through them both, (the disconnected from live side of course), right through the single main fuse box with a 5.5mm drillbit, i removed the main fuse box and slowly pulled it forward just enough for me to go through the 5.5mm holes behind in the wall with a 13mm spade end drill bit straight in to the bedroom, i removed a large portion of the plasterboard in the bedroom and then got my hands on some 25mm cable and stripped out 3 feet of red live and the same of black neutral, i pushed the live through the hole in the back of the box which was still dead as the fuse was removed, and the same with the black, i bought a 5 - way small consumer box with a 100 amp isolator and 2 x 32 amp mcb (miniature circuit breaker) i have connected 1 mcb to two x two gang rcd (residual current device) sockets in a ring and the other to a 2 gang rcd socket, so now i have 3 double rcd sockets, 1 separate ring from the other two. i run every thing from these 6 rcd sockets including 2 separate 16 amp immersion heater timers to run my lights all connected through 13 amp fused plugs. when i go out i am paranoid as hell. what do you think, i am only running about 3500 watts total for 18 hours from this. i then put every thing back in order in the meter cupboard and i still get charged for power for the rest of my house, the guy that is manager of the tower block came to see me and he opened my meter cupboard as i had my kitchen rewired 2 weeks before i did this, and he didnt smell a rat. i am waiting on the meter reader who comes every six months to read it soon. but i am totally paranoid about fire.


you should be... and your lucky you dont live in north america....

tapping into meter boxes is STUPID, its what gets you CAUGHT!

http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2010/10/smart_electric_meters_could_target_indoor_marijuan.php


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## IAm5toned (Mar 25, 2011)

> Many of the technical papers floating around on IEEE's huge engineering paper database talk about smart meters which are programmed to know the IV curves of all appliances. With this information, a Laplace transform can extract the individual IV curves from the total raw IV curve sufficient to know if the appliance is an HID ballast or a toaster. So, in theory, smart meters can collect all sorts of information about consumers' power consumption habits. This more sophisticated technology is probably not commonplace right now, even where smart meters are common. But, growers and consumers alike should be aware of these future capabilities sufficient to let their power companies know that they don't take kindly to such eavesdropping.
> 
> We all need to realize the SECONDARY motivation of power companies when they data mine their customers for such things: This data can be sold to third parties for the purpose of more specialized advertising -- and yes, even sold to law enforcement through third parties (which is already commonly done for telephone record pen registers here in the United States).
> 
> There are many papers written in these IEEE databases which discuss the legal and social ramifications of power companies doing such things. It's too bad that more of the public is not discussing it.


- Hugh Jielder


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## leftcoastnewf (Mar 25, 2011)

Thank you.


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## HighC (Mar 25, 2011)

I am looking at a warehouse that has 100 amp 3 phase power. I am not really sure how 3 phase works. Would I have enough power to run 8 1000 watt lights at 220v or 240v per phase and have enough power left over to run my other equipment? I have read a bunch of different information on the internet about 3 phase power and everyone has different idea's how it works. Please show me your calculations so that I can learn for future reference. Thanks for any help!!!


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## growmomma (Mar 25, 2011)

Im sure this question has been asked as well but..... My husband assures me that the 900watts (give or take) we have running is not enough electricty to attract suspicion. Is this true???


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## jack ripa (Mar 25, 2011)

900 watts is nothing. I would not worry about it. Smell on the other hand....


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## WeeGogs (Mar 25, 2011)

IAm5toned said:


> you should be... and your lucky you dont live in north america....
> 
> tapping into meter boxes is STUPID, its what gets you CAUGHT!
> 
> http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2010/10/smart_electric_meters_could_target_indoor_marijuan.php


i never asked a smart arse for his comments about tapping in to meters, i never tapped in to a meter you idiot, i tapped in to the power before my meter ok and how the f***k do you propose that they are going to find out? when you look in my meter cupboard it all looks above board, and i pay my electric bill for my house as normal, maybe you are too thick to understand the way i have did this. dont ever answer my posts again EVER. as you do not even understand the ethics of what i am talking about.


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## WeeGogs (Mar 25, 2011)

hi mr. jonesez. this is true. i live in a tower block in the uk with 18 floors, i live on the 7th, my electric meter is situated in a cupboard that has its back to a bedroom and is 100 amp+ and 240v , the guy that fitted the single main fuse inadvertently left just enough room on the crimped seal wire to pull out the fuse that disconnects my meter, so i removed the fuse before my meter and that gave me access to a screw that removes a cover that conceals the neutral wire connection plate, now i can see the the two connector plates, so i drilled straight through them both, (the disconnected from live side of course), right through the single main fuse box with a 5.5mm drillbit, i removed the main fuse box and slowly pulled it forward just enough for me to go through the 5.5mm holes behind in the wall with a 13mm spade end drill bit straight in to the bedroom, i removed a large portion of the plasterboard in the bedroom and then got my hands on some 25mm cable and stripped out 3 feet of red live and the same of black neutral, i pushed the live through the hole in the back of the fuse box which was still dead as the fuse was removed, and the same with the black, i took an earth feed from my main consumer unit above my meter through the wall too, i bought a 5 - way small consumer box with a 100 amp isolator and 2 x 32 amp mcb (miniature circuit breaker) i have connected 1 mcb to two x two gang rcd (residual current device) sockets in a ring and the other to a 2 gang rcd socket, so now i have 3 double rcd sockets, 1 separate ring from the other two. i run every thing from these 6 rcd sockets including 2 separate 16 amp immersion heater timers to run my lights all connected through 13 amp fused plugs. when i go out i am paranoid as hell. what do you think, i am only running about 3500 watts total for 18 hours from this. i then put every thing back in order in the meter cupboard and i still get charged for power for the rest of my house, and free electricity in the room with the new consumer unit, the guy that is manager of the tower block came to see me and he opened my meter cupboard as i had my kitchen rewired 2 weeks before i did this, and he didnt smell a rat. i am waiting on the meter reader who comes every six months to read it soon. i pay my electricity through a key which i take to a shop and they put the amount i pay on the key, i know they can communicate with the key and can turn your electric price up or down from any shop when you buy credit, i am also assuming that the key may have told them my meter lost power for a while. but they are doing a lot of electrical work on my block and i hope that acts as a cover.


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## TinyGrow (Mar 25, 2011)

Hey Brick,

I am having a little trouble with wiring my electric for my ventilation fans and when I saw your post I decided to see if you would be kind enough to give me a hand. I wont need a step by step hand held guide so dont worry  I just need to be put in the right direction if u dont mind.

Right now I am in the process of setting this up.


The measurements are not on the diagram im sorry, but the mesurments are 4x4x3(depth). Each compartment will have an "as close to" air tight seal as possible and I will be venting the top two, and bottom two separately. On the top the only fan is my CPU Exhaust fan ( http://www.thefanvan.net/servlet/the-453/AVC-BA13733B12H-Blower-For/Detail) and it will be on the outside of the upper right room sealed air tight to the wall sucking air through the hole drilled to size. Its a 12v - 2.6A spec (as said on the front at least). I have four other fans that will be exhausting the bottom, these four fans are tiny 2x2 cpu rotary fans ( 12v - 0.17A). I will have two as an intake on the bottom left box and two on the bottom right to exhaust. Holes will be drilled accordingly to give proper air flow through the room.

Here is the question lol. I have a 2 amp DC power supply ( http://www.altex.com/Philmore-Multi-Voltage-Regulated-DC-Power-Supply-MW122A-P143093.aspx ). I stripped the connectors off of the end wires. On the CPU fan I have four wires, red black white blue. I know red is positive, black negative, white ground - what is blue? - The fan runs perfectly fine for hours on end with just the red and black attatched (ofcourse I sat in the room and monitored it). 

My question(s) is - as for all wiring - the ground should always be attached to something metal yes? to disperse a possible electric surge? If my entire box is wooden where would I disperse it and is it even necessary? The blue wire, do you have any idea what it is? I have heard inexperienced people tell me it "could be a timer wire" but Im not willing to play with wires and plug it into the wall if I dont know exactly what it is and how to use it. My third question is if it is a timer wire, do you have a link to a guide that shows how to attach this to a thermo. to slow/shut down when its cool enough, and or tell me how if you know?

My last question ( and im sorry for flooding you with this stuff today ) is if I wire both the cpu and the four 2x2s on the same AC power supply - is that hazardous? and if so - how can I make this work?

My DC power supply gets VERY hot on the back plate to the point it will burn you if you touch it - it says it has a build in thermal shut down sensor and i checked the fuse and everything is perfect. If I keep this power supply up on the top of the system and properly wire all the fans to this and leave it running 24/7 (or w a timer, less time) will this DC charger set on fire? Ive never worked with any of dc adapters with free wires and it jus seems a lil too hot. Then again my laptop plug gets much worse lol..

If you can help me I would really appreciate it - I dont know why but I cant receive or send PMs so I will check back here for a response! Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to guide me on this lil project  Have a wonderful day.


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## Wolverine97 (Mar 25, 2011)

bricktown73 said:


> Here are some pics of venting for the lights


I realize this is an old post, but your'e running the same exhaust fans that I am. I love those things.


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## Wolverine97 (Mar 25, 2011)

WeeGogs said:


> i never asked a smart arse for his comments about tapping in to meters, i never tapped in to a meter you idiot, i tapped in to the power before my meter ok and how the f***k do you propose that they are going to find out? when you look in my meter cupboard it all looks above board, and i pay my electric bill for my house as normal, maybe you are too thick to understand the way i have did this. dont ever answer my posts again EVER. as you do not even understand the ethics of what i am talking about.


The "ethics" ? Really? 
I don't think that word means what you think it means. That, or you have a strange sense of ethics.


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## Danielsgb (Mar 25, 2011)

WeeGogs said:


> hi mr. jonesez. this is true. i live in a tower block in the uk with 18 floors, i live on the 7th, my electric meter is situated in a cupboard that has its back to a bedroom and is 100 amp+ and 240v , the guy that fitted the single main fuse inadvertently left just enough room on the crimped seal wire to pull out the fuse that disconnects my meter, so i removed the fuse before my meter and that gave me access to a screw that removes a cover that conceals the neutral wire connection plate, now i can see the the two connector plates, so i drilled straight through them both, (the disconnected from live side of course), right through the single main fuse box with a 5.5mm drillbit, i removed the main fuse box and slowly pulled it forward just enough for me to go through the 5.5mm holes behind in the wall with a 13mm spade end drill bit straight in to the bedroom, i removed a large portion of the plasterboard in the bedroom and then got my hands on some 25mm cable and stripped out 3 feet of red live and the same of black neutral, i pushed the live through the hole in the back of the fuse box which was still dead as the fuse was removed, and the same with the black, i took an earth feed from my main consumer unit above my meter through the wall too, i bought a 5 - way small consumer box with a 100 amp isolator and 2 x 32 amp mcb (miniature circuit breaker) i have connected 1 mcb to two x two gang rcd (residual current device) sockets in a ring and the other to a 2 gang rcd socket, so now i have 3 double rcd sockets, 1 separate ring from the other two. i run every thing from these 6 rcd sockets including 2 separate 16 amp immersion heater timers to run my lights all connected through 13 amp fused plugs. when i go out i am paranoid as hell. what do you think, i am only running about 3500 watts total for 18 hours from this. i then put every thing back in order in the meter cupboard and i still get charged for power for the rest of my house, and free electricity in the room with the new consumer unit, the guy that is manager of the tower block came to see me and he opened my meter cupboard as i had my kitchen rewired 2 weeks before i did this, and he didnt smell a rat. i am waiting on the meter reader who comes every six months to read it soon. i pay my electricity through a key which i take to a shop and they put the amount i pay on the key, i know they can communicate with the key and can turn your electric price up or down from any shop when you buy credit, i am also assuming that the key may have told them my meter lost power for a while. but they are doing a lot of electrical work on my block and i hope that acts as a cover.


So stealing power is Ethical?


WeeGogs said:


> i never asked a smart arse for his comments about tapping in to meters, i never tapped in to a meter you idiot, i tapped in to the power before my meter ok and how the f***k do you propose that they are going to find out? when you look in my meter cupboard it all looks above board, and i pay my electric bill for my house as normal, maybe you are too thick to understand the way i have did this. dont ever answer my posts again EVER. as you do not even understand the ethics of what i am talking about.


He is a master electrician, you jack ass and stealing power will get you caught.


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## Polecat (Mar 25, 2011)

They know there's a leak. Your meter isn't the only one on the line. They will be looking you. Might not find you. But then again.


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## IAm5toned (Mar 25, 2011)

they will find him. it wont take a sweep and balance team bout 30 mins to track it down if his landlord catches on.
there is such a thing as KWh used and KWh billed... once the numbers dont add up (takes a few months) they will start looking for it when landlord is like, gee, my bill suddenly went up 200 a month for no reason... and i have one tenant i KNOW has already modified his power system.. mebbe i should call the power company see if they can track it down....

just saying man. i know you didnt ask, but i figured id let you know. its not sticking my nose in, its doing your ass a favor....

PSA- the building you live in has its own meterbase, on the Main Service Entry... your apt has its own meterbase, along with every other apt and house panel.. so when the numbers dont add up between the Main meter, and all the individual meters, bet your sweet ass they will look for you.

peace out!


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## IAm5toned (Mar 25, 2011)

HighC said:


> I am looking at a warehouse that has 100 amp 3 phase power. I am not really sure how 3 phase works. Would I have enough power to run 8 1000 watt lights at 220v or 240v per phase and have enough power left over to run my other equipment? I have read a bunch of different information on the internet about 3 phase power and everyone has different idea's how it works. Please show me your calculations so that I can learn for future reference. Thanks for any help!!!


 u dont want to see my 3 phase power calulations because there isnt enough space on this page....
theres alot of sq root of Pi involved 


but let me school ya-

3 phase is no diff than single phase when it comes to load distribution 

the same laws apply.. thats why there laws 

3 phase has more to do with motors, not lighting... and if your running 120/240 delta (im assuming you are, you never mentioned 208, 277, or 480, or a weird orange panel for an open delta system) there is no difference in ampacity or power consumed than there is with a single phase system.

and to be totally honest....

ive never seen a 3phase HID light... there all 2 wire devices


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## IAm5toned (Mar 25, 2011)

growmomma said:


> Im sure this question has been asked as well but..... My husband assures me that the 900watts (give or take) we have running is not enough electricty to attract suspicion. Is this true???


as much as you want to tell him he's wrong, _this time_ he's right...

900w is a drop in the bucket, there are aquariums that use more power... 
the trick to keeping the power company happy, is the same trick to keep alot of people happy- pay the bill on time. 
dont tap your meter... and you can run up to 4-7thousand watts b4 any issues become apparent..


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## WeeGogs (Mar 26, 2011)

thats funny i live in a tower block and our transformer is at the bottom of the building, and it feeds 432 flats how do you propose they are going to find out which flat is sucking a measly less than 4000 watts you idiots, our tower block has no gas for safety reasons and all the heating is electric, each flat has 4 heaters at approx 2000 watts plus each, thats 8000 watts per flat for heating alone never mind hundreds of large plasma tvs, and you think they will notice an extra 3600 watts, my god some people better stop smoking this stuff.


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## WeeGogs (Mar 26, 2011)

Wolverine97 said:


> The "ethics" ? Really?
> I don't think that word means what you think it means. That, or you have a strange sense of ethics.


 
ethical, ethical, do you think smoking a drug that makes you lethargic and lazy, ill, paranoid, fills your lungs with smoke, addictive etc, do you think that is ethical, i sell my grow to little boys like you who have no sense in knowing what this god damn stuff does to them, i dont care if people say oh, but this stuff is healthy, this stuff is a wonder drug, this stuff is proven to be good for you, off course it is, thats why it is legal in every country in the god damn world, do not tell me about ethics and you ask your master electrician this, 
i live in a tower block and our transformer is at the bottom of the building, and it feeds 432 flats how do you propose they are going to find out which flat is sucking a measly less than 4000 watts you idiots, our tower block has no gas for safety reasons and all the heating is electric, each flat has 4 heaters at approx 2000 watts plus each, thats 8000 watts per flat for heating alone never mind hundreds of large plasma tvs, and you think they will notice an extra 3600 watts, my god some people better stop smoking this stuff.​


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## everyday.smoker (Mar 26, 2011)

Have someone used thermostat as heat fuse? I have an idea to place it before my timers and lights and switch it to about 95F or something. If the temp will be lower than that thermostat will let power through but if there will be some problems with fans and temp will get too high it will switch off. Am I right?


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## IAm5toned (Mar 26, 2011)

WeeGogs said:


> ethical, ethical, do you think smoking a drug that makes you lethargic and lazy, ill, paranoid, fills your lungs with smoke, addictive etc, do you think that is ethical, i sell my grow to little boys like you who have no sense in knowing what this god damn stuff does to them, i dont care if people say oh, but this stuff is healthy, this stuff is a wonder drug, this stuff is proven to be good for you, off course it is, thats why it is legal in every country in the god damn world, do not tell me about ethics and you ask your master electrician this,
> i live in a tower block and our transformer is at the bottom of the building, and it feeds 432 flats how do you propose they are going to find out which flat is sucking a measly less than 4000 watts you idiots, our tower block has no gas for safety reasons and all the heating is electric, each flat has 4 heaters at approx 2000 watts plus each, thats 8000 watts per flat for heating alone never mind hundreds of large plasma tvs, and you think they will notice an extra 3600 watts, my god some people better stop smoking this stuff.​


it would take me les than ten minutes and a 20$ ammeter to walk rigfht to your door and say, ytep, your power loss is origintating from this flat, officers......


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## Wolverine97 (Mar 26, 2011)

WeeGogs said:


> ethical, ethical, do you think smoking a drug that makes you lethargic and lazy, ill, paranoid, fills your lungs with smoke, addictive etc, do you think that is ethical, i sell my grow to little boys like you who have no sense in knowing what this god damn stuff does to them, i dont care if people say oh, but this stuff is healthy, this stuff is a wonder drug, this stuff is proven to be good for you, off course it is, thats why it is legal in every country in the god damn world, do not tell me about ethics and you ask your master electrician this,
> i live in a tower block and our transformer is at the bottom of the building, and it feeds 432 flats how do you propose they are going to find out which flat is sucking a measly less than 4000 watts you idiots, our tower block has no gas for safety reasons and all the heating is electric, each flat has 4 heaters at approx 2000 watts plus each, thats 8000 watts per flat for heating alone never mind hundreds of large plasma tvs, and you think they will notice an extra 3600 watts, my god some people better stop smoking this stuff.​


You don't know me.


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## Danielsgb (Mar 26, 2011)

IAm5toned said:


> it would take me less than ten minutes and a 20$ ammeter to walk right to your door and say, yep, your power loss is originating from this flat, officers......


I wouldn't take that bet. Even if it was for a tiny joint of schwag.
Daniels


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## IAm5toned (Mar 26, 2011)

whats funny is im just trying to be nice and give the guy fair warning is all...
tapping a meter covertly isnt easy, and he pulled it off, without getting hurt or burning the place so that says something for his intelligence.
and being in an apt building... where maintenence can literally enter ur place at will.... and with high energy costs, landlords and property managers be trying to eleminate power loss... 
some lessons you have to learn the hard way, i suppose.

oh well.


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## WeeGogs (Mar 26, 2011)

IAm5toned said:


> it would take me les than ten minutes and a 20$ ammeter to walk rigfht to your door and say, ytep, your power loss is origintating from this flat, officers......


well you have 432 flats to walk in to with your meter, the 100 amp plus cable that goes to my flat comes straight from the transformer at the bottom of the building, so you better ask the police for 432 search warrants because there is a 4000 watt leak somewhere in a building that probably uses an average of about 1000 amps plus per hour LOL.
you are one crazy person. by the way can i get a loan of your ammeter i want to check my neighbours flat to see if he has any hps lighting running 18 hours a day at 3500 watts. he would probably kick me up and down like a pair of empty overalls, LOLOL and if you walked in my flat with an ammeter i would take that dildo and stick it right up your aristotle before i forced you to pick a window for your little flight.


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## WeeGogs (Mar 26, 2011)

IAm5toned said:


> whats funny is im just trying to be nice and give the guy fair warning is all...
> tapping a meter covertly isnt easy, and he pulled it off, without getting hurt or burning the place so that says something for his intelligence.
> and being in an apt building... where maintenence can literally enter ur place at will.... and with high energy costs, landlords and property managers be trying to eleminate power loss...
> some lessons you have to learn the hard way, i suppose.
> ...


i dont have a landlord, or a property manager i dont have anybody that runs MY flat except for me, there is a concierge service and manager service that maintains the building, cleaning etc, and helps people with any complaints. it is run by our local council as a safety gesture,. so anyone wanting in to my flat has to be invited or allowed in by me. except for the police with a search warrant of course and they dont ask they just smash your door in. what i am trying to say is if you try to steal electricity through your meter then getting caught will be inevitible, you cannot tap in to the 100 amp+ cable before your main fuse as this is live and will kill you instantly, you have to tap in between the main fuse and meter when the main fuse has been pulled, but you have to break the seal, in my case the stupid electric man never fitted the seal properly so i took full advantage, although i am still paying about £10-£15 a week for my normal electricity in my flat (i still get 3500 watts 18 hours a day for free) through a meter key you take to a shop to put power on.
if i did not pay for my normal electric usage the power company would be on my doorstep within a couple of weeks.


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## mrjonesez (Mar 26, 2011)

everyday.smoker said:


> Have someone used thermostat as heat fuse? I have an idea to place it before my timers and lights and switch it to about 95F or something. If the temp will be lower than that thermostat will let power through but if there will be some problems with fans and temp will get too high it will switch off. Am I right?


yes, you need one rated for 120 or 240. whichever voltage your using. 
thats a great idea, keep it up.


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## mrjonesez (Mar 26, 2011)

WeeGogs said:


> hi mr. jonesez. this is true. i live in a tower block in the uk with 18 floors, i live on the 7th, my electric meter is situated in a cupboard that has its back to a bedroom and is 100 amp+ and 240v , the guy that fitted the single main fuse inadvertently left just enough room on the crimped seal wire to pull out the fuse that disconnects my meter, so i removed the fuse before my meter and that gave me access to a screw that removes a cover that conceals the neutral wire connection plate, now i can see the the two connector plates, so i drilled straight through them both, (the disconnected from live side of course), right through the single main fuse box with a 5.5mm drillbit, i removed the main fuse box and slowly pulled it forward just enough for me to go through the 5.5mm holes behind in the wall with a 13mm spade end drill bit straight in to the bedroom, i removed a large portion of the plasterboard in the bedroom and then got my hands on some 25mm cable and stripped out 3 feet of red live and the same of black neutral, i pushed the live through the hole in the back of the fuse box which was still dead as the fuse was removed, and the same with the black, i took an earth feed from my main consumer unit above my meter through the wall too, i bought a 5 - way small consumer box with a 100 amp isolator and 2 x 32 amp mcb (miniature circuit breaker) i have connected 1 mcb to two x two gang rcd (residual current device) sockets in a ring and the other to a 2 gang rcd socket, so now i have 3 double rcd sockets, 1 separate ring from the other two. i run every thing from these 6 rcd sockets including 2 separate 16 amp immersion heater timers to run my lights all connected through 13 amp fused plugs. when i go out i am paranoid as hell. what do you think, i am only running about 3500 watts total for 18 hours from this. i then put every thing back in order in the meter cupboard and i still get charged for power for the rest of my house, and free electricity in the room with the new consumer unit, the guy that is manager of the tower block came to see me and he opened my meter cupboard as i had my kitchen rewired 2 weeks before i did this, and he didnt smell a rat. i am waiting on the meter reader who comes every six months to read it soon. i pay my electricity through a key which i take to a shop and they put the amount i pay on the key, i know they can communicate with the key and can turn your electric price up or down from any shop when you buy credit, i am also assuming that the key may have told them my meter lost power for a while. but they are doing a lot of electrical work on my block and i hope that acts as a cover.


not sure if thats enough loss on the line to get them off their asses to come look for the loss. They get normal loss from the overhead wires being so close together on the streets. Its when they see a substantial loss they will then put their doughnuts and coffee down to investigate.
by the way, anything i say is just for educational use only. 
The meter reads the power anything after the meter itself. if anything was tapped on the wires coming from the street to the meter, the meter would never see the loss.


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## mrjonesez (Mar 26, 2011)

WeeGogs said:


> i dont have a landlord, or a property manager i dont have anybody that runs MY flat except for me, there is a concierge service and manager service that maintains the building, cleaning etc, and helps people with any complaints. it is run by our local council as a safety gesture,. so anyone wanting in to my flat has to be invited or allowed in by me. except for the police with a search warrant of course and they dont ask they just smash your door in. what i am trying to say is if you try to steal electricity through your meter then getting caught will be inevitible, you cannot tap in to the 100 amp+ cable before your main fuse as this is live and will kill you instantly, you have to tap in between the main fuse and meter when the main fuse has been pulled, but you have to break the seal, in my case the stupid electric man never fitted the seal properly so i took full advantage, although i am still paying about £10-£15 a week for my normal electricity in my flat (i still get 3500 watts 18 hours a day for free) through a meter key you take to a shop to put power on.
> if i did not pay for my normal electric usage the power company would be on my doorstep within a couple of weeks.


they dont put main fuses in where the public can access them here in the u.s. They put them in a locked transformer outside and if someone got into one they would get a jolt of about 15000 volts.


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## WeeGogs (Mar 27, 2011)

mrjonesez said:


> they dont put main fuses in where the public can access them here in the u.s. They put them in a locked transformer outside and if someone got into one they would get a jolt of about 15000 volts.


ok we only get 400volts (amps??) enter our main fuse in our stairwell to a transformer then transformed to 240 volts approx 100 amps then fused in our meter cupboard.
and the volts dont matter its the amps that matter in the house, our powerlines are 400,000 then 132,000 then 33,000 then 11,000 then 400 then 240 volts but i dont know how many amps or amount of electric draw you could get from them what i do know is, the larger ones have melted a few arms off to the shoulder and feet off to the ankle bone, and severe melting of the body and instantaneous death, the pylons that carry the 400,000 are 500ft high and this is a no fly zone the one onn the right in the picture can be seen from 10 miles away and that is one massive stun gun LOL but you cannot beat the americans for this invention for carrying electric power these are the most fantastic power lines i have ever seen and they are in iceland.
http://www.electronicbeats.net/Lifestyle/Columns/TODAY-WE-LIKE-Land-of-Giants
.


>


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## 504 boy (Mar 27, 2011)

Hey I have a question. Do I need a ballast if im just running 1 400w MH on a 18/6 or 12/12 cycle. I know it would be rated as a continuous load since it will be running more than 3 hours a a time.. This is my first grow trying to get it right.


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## 504 boy (Mar 27, 2011)

Im a journeyman /w the IBEW and sorry Dnak bugging is right on this one I started out doing residential back in 99', Now I only do commercia except for side work


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## IAm5toned (Mar 28, 2011)

......huh?


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## sladeofdark (Mar 29, 2011)

All the guys that come out to give me my estimates keep asking " what are you going to be running on it?" and i dont know what to tell them lol. But i keep saying i need the outlets to be able to support 3000watts continuously. is that good enough?


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## IAm5toned (Mar 29, 2011)

they are asking you that because they need to know whether or not what your installing is to be considered _continuous duty rated _or not. 
continuous duty rating effects the price, because something that is rated for continuous duty is much more rugged and built better than typical intermittent duty devices that are normally installed in your house.
by definition, a device is rated @ continuous duty if it has a duty cycle of 6 hours or greater, uninterrupted. 
so your lights, are continuous duty rated... because i hope you plan on running them longer than 6 hours at a time 

here is how to determine the correct breaker and wire sizes for continuous duty rating-

max wattage (the wattage of _everything_)

x 120%
__________
continuous duty wattage

now divide by the voltage, to get the amps, and _round up _to the nearest breaker/wire size. its simple.


example:
4 600 watt HPS fixtures and ballasts (_660w x 4_)

660 x 4 = 2640w (_max wattage_)

2640w x 120% = 3168w (_continuous duty rating_)

3168w / 120v = 26.4 amps (_continuous duty wattage converted to continuous duty amperage, amperage is used to determine wire and breaker size_)

26.4 amps rounded UP (_always up, never down, unless you like the smell of burning plastic!_) to the next legal breaker/wire size would be 30amps/#10awg.


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## IAm5toned (Mar 29, 2011)

sladeofdark said:


> All the guys that come out to give me my estimates keep asking " what are you going to be running on it?" and i dont know what to tell them lol. But i keep saying i need the outlets to be able to support 3000watts continuously. is that good enough?


tell them you are opening a home business and you need power for equipment. 
they dont need to know WHAT type of equipment, just what tpye of receptacle it requires...

so you should say-

'I just need some 20 amp spec grade recptacles installed here, here, and here, on a dedicated line for x amount of amps'

::


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## Danielsgb (Mar 29, 2011)

Here's his thread I posted your other chart & tried to help on.
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/409769-help-needed-grow-room-design.html


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## duchieman (Mar 29, 2011)

Hey everyone, how's things here? I have not read this thread, it is a biggie and I just can't see myself digging through it to answer my question. I'm sorry if that's offensive or not good etiquette and I apologize in advance. Anyway my question is...How can I make my 600 HPS magnetic ballast to run 2 bulbs, in separate flower rooms, on alternating cycles? I'm a handy guy and somewhat electrical literate, working in the field a bit, and being a broadband tech, so I'm not shy to tackle a DIY like this. One guy showed me a prefab box of some sort that did the job but it was like 125 buck, then all the extra material needed on top, almost added up to a whole new ballast, bulb and fixture, so that doesn't work for me. I simply want to keep power constant to the ballast and switch it afterwards between the two bulbs. Some sort of timed relay rated for my ballast etc? I just don't know how to go about asking for what I need and the electrical supply house. If the answers already in this thread, cause I'm pretty sure I'm not the first to ask this, I'd be glad to dig for it if someone can just direct me in the right direction that would be great!

Duchie


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## Danielsgb (Mar 29, 2011)

Here ya go.
*two lamps, two rooms, one ballast!*


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## duchieman (Mar 29, 2011)

Danielsgb said:


> Here ya go.
> *two lamps, two rooms, one ballast!*


That is awesome man, thanks for having that so handy. After looking at it, and reading further on in the thread, and seeing your quote


> *lol, yes, i agree. but people seem to want to run two lamps off of one ballast independantly, so i figured i would oblige..*


 I think I might abandon this idea altogether. Thanks again though.


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## Danielsgb (Mar 29, 2011)

duchieman said:


> That is awesome man, thanks for having that so handy. After looking at it, and reading further on in the thread, and seeing your quote I think I might abandon this idea altogether. Thanks again though.


That's not mine it's from my favorite Guru




IAm5toned. I just happen to see it again a few days ago, and always wondered about that.
Daniels


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## Starkton44 (Mar 29, 2011)

I was thinking about running a bike generator for my lights. I will be running 8 55 Watt CFL equivalent to 250 watts. I'm not good with the terminology and the math. But im asking How much power would those 8 cfls running 12 hours a day use? I know I need a deep cycle battery. I'm just not sure on what volt battery I should get and if this is possible.


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## Danielsgb (Mar 29, 2011)

duchieman said:


> That is awesome man, thanks for having that so handy. After looking at it, and reading further on in the thread, and seeing your quote I think I might abandon this idea altogether. Thanks again though.


There is the LF-2 here for $300.

http://www.horticontrol.com/store.html


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## duchieman (Mar 29, 2011)

This is the device I was shown.

http://www.amazon.com/Powerbox-Inc-POWERBOX-FLIPBOX/dp/B002W80LI4


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## Truth B Known (Mar 29, 2011)

yo bro, check it... i want to wire in a 30amp breaker into my breaker box that leads to a 30 outlet so i can plug in a 4 light 240v light module.. i'm not too familiar with electrical but carpentry i know pretty well.. just wanna know how hard it would be to do it myself or if i should have an electrician do it? thanks brotha!!


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## Danielsgb (Mar 29, 2011)

I have no clue if either of these are reliable, but that was $145 for 1 ballast and 2 bulbs, and that one I found was $300 for 2 ballasts and 4 bulbs so basically comparable. Maybe someone has an opinion on the companies who make them.


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## duchieman (Mar 29, 2011)

I was just hoping it would be a little simpler. I don't get why it's so complex. I'm sure there's a good reason, I just see it as feeding the output from the ballast to a relay that switches back and forth every 12 hrs, rather than on and off every 12.


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## Danielsgb (Mar 29, 2011)

duchieman said:


> I was just hoping it would be a little simpler. I don't get why it's so complex. I'm sure there's a good reason, I just see it as feeding the output from the ballast to a relay that switches back and forth every 12 hrs, rather than on and off every 12.


IAm5toned could say, or that answer may be in his thread I showed. I'm pretty sure he told me that good & simple reason once but I forgot. I do know they need to cool down for 10-15 min. before they re-start.


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## duchieman (Mar 29, 2011)

Sorry to continuous post but I just thought of something. It was mentioned to cool a magnetic ballast for 15 mins between bulb switches. If the ballast is going to continue powering one of the bulbs, why does it have to shut down at all, therefore requiring cooling before restarts. Which made me think of this. Lately we've been having quick outages and surges that knock my light out, and when it tries to fire back up, it won't until after a cooling period. I always thought it was the bulb that needed cooling but now I'm wondering if it's the ballast? But then again, I remember one time the bulb wouldn't refire so I grabbed a new one right away and it worked immediately. Later on, after some days, I switched them back and all good. So there is a question in there somewhere.


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## IAm5toned (Mar 30, 2011)

to understand why a ballast needs a cool down period, first you need to understand how an HID lamp works, on startup.

hid lamps have a bimetallic element on the filament that switches the current between the _preheat filament _and the _arcing tube_

the load characteristics of a preheat filament, and an arc tube, are completely different.. a preheat filament is a _resistive _load, and arc tube is an _inductive load_

a resistive circuit, at room temperature, when you apply power to it, has a resistance of 0 ohms, untill the filament begins to heat up and act as a resistor, which in turn heats up the arc tube, and when it gets hot enough, the bimetallic element switches the current to the arc tube... but the key here, is that 0 hms on the preheat circuit... because electricity, flowing through 0 ohms of resitance, generates whats known as _inrush current_. Flipping the switch on a circuit that has 0 ohms is equivalent to blowing a dam up.. the lake empties quick! but it only lasts for, quite literally, nanoseconds at best.. because the preheat element heats up the instant you start passing power through it, and when it heats up, its resistance rises proportionate to the amount of heat... now that you know what is happening during lamp startup, so here's why a ballast needs a cool down period between lamp starts:
a hot ballast is too hot for the inrush current on a cold lamp, over time, the inrush will destroy the insulation between the ballast windings on the main transformer... it mkes the insulation brittle over time... the ballast isnt engineered to be restriked (restrike= hot start) at all, its engineered to run for a min of 8 hours with a 30 min cooldown.. and thats kind of an industry standard between major manufactuers.

they (lighting manufacturers) say 30 mins, for warranty reasons... because they know if your constantly restriking your ballasts... they wont last... and they wont have to honor a warranty


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## duchieman (Mar 30, 2011)

That was a great explanation, thank you for that. So restriking a ballast is harmful if restruck on a resistive circuit, cold filament, but what about when the power surges and knocks out the ballast and bulb for a second and the resistive circuit is still hot and resistive, why will the lamp not light then? I ask because I wonder what would happen if I'm not home when it happens, to unplug the lamp and let it cool. Also, if it did happen while I was away, would I even know it? By that I mean, will the lamp eventually ignite on it's own again? I've never let it go that far when it happens. 

I now have another question about an experience I had with a faulty dual arc bulb, but I'll save that for next


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## IAm5toned (Mar 30, 2011)

because the bimettallic element that actually does the switching, needs to cool down enough to close the circuit to the preheater... it doesnt retrike the lamp, because its still too hot to close.. but not hot enough to restablish the arc inside the arc tube... establishing the arc inside an arctube, is actually a very fine science... if the element is too hot, it wont work, if its too cold, it wont work.. the conditions have to be just right.... the gaseous element is actually plasma, and plasma has strange properties... to sum it up, for it to work right, an arc must be established in the gaseous element while its not hot enough to become plasma, but not cool enough to have too low of a resistance, and as the gas heats up, it begins to flouresce, and tada, you have light. while the arc tube is hot... the resistance is _too high_ for the arc to even start.. so it has to cool down 

im sure youve seen a lamp flicker while starting up.... that is the preheat circuit witching between the arc tube and the preheater... you can even hear the inrush current growling if you pay close enough attn...


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## duchieman (Mar 30, 2011)

Great explanation again. So does that mean that if I wasn't around to unplug the ballast after such surges, that the bulb would not ignite again, even though the ballast is still running? If so, what are the negative affects of this? 

The story of my dual arc is that one morning it was trying to fire up and the ballast was klunking and arcing inside, with that nice electrical burn smell. I immediately looked at the bulb to see whats happening, and if I recall now, the MH part of the bulb was having trouble igniting, then the klunk (like it was resetting), and the bulb would try again. I immediately unplugged the ballast, changed to a regular HPS and no problems since. Guy at the retailer said faulty bulbs due to different life spans between HPS and MH. Don't know what to think of that explanation.


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## luckandleather (Mar 30, 2011)

IAm5toned said:


> - Hugh Jielder


You are 100% correct, Thank goodness I'm off the grid, so to speak. my landlord pays it all and there are other power consumers on same meters. No smart meters here. If one show up I'm going totally off(u can take that any way you want) it's bad enough all my internet use is being mined.


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## IAm5toned (Mar 30, 2011)

more like faulty bulbs due to shoddy manufacturing....

no, if you were not there, after about 10-15 mins or so, the lamp will cool down enough to restrike on its own


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## IAm5toned (Mar 30, 2011)

luckandleather said:


> You are 100% correct, Thank goodness I'm off the grid, so to speak. my landlord pays it all and there are other power consumers on same meters. No smart meters here. If one show up I'm going totally off(u can take that any way you want) it's bad enough all my internet use is being mined.


thanks.
sometimes i feel like the boy who cried wolf... til i read the news and hear of yet another bust due to tapping....


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## luckandleather (Mar 30, 2011)

IAm5toned said:


> thanks.
> sometimes i feel like the boy who cried wolf... til i read the news and hear of yet another bust due to tapping....


They have a name for that, why people don't listen and don't think it can happen to them, it's called the "normalcy factor". It's not that they are stupid, they just think because they don't see it happening then it means it's not happening.


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## duchieman (Mar 30, 2011)

Perfect, thank you very much IA, really appreciate it!


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## benny blanco (Mar 30, 2011)

Can I run 2 1000whps on a 30amp fuse? (My pannel still uses fuses lol)


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## luckandleather (Mar 30, 2011)

Electrician question, I wired up a bathroom fixture, a 4 bulb vanity light, to suspend from ceiling. I used and old extension cord for the wire, but it lacks the ground pole wire, a black wire and a white wire only. So I attached the ground wire( a bare copper wire) that is on the bathroom fixture between the eye bolt and nut/washer on the backside(using 2 eye bolts for hanging the light)of the fixture.
Is this a good ground? The light works, all the wires are properly connected with wire nuts and taped over with electricians tape.
The extension cord is a common orange cord, it just didn't have a ground pole end.
My other concern is how high humidity with affect the connection in the sockets, both the vanity sockets and the y connector sockets, even the cfl bulbs. Should I go back and apply a conductive lubricant ?


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## IAm5toned (Mar 30, 2011)

you will be fine..... they take high humidity into concern when designing bathroom fixtures 

and code says a light fixture with a cord length shorter than 8 foot is not required to be grounded...........
tho for safety's sake, it always helps to have a path for fault current.


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## smokey green (Mar 30, 2011)

From a fellow electricician to another, great thing what your doing here man, the thought of a lot of do it yourselfers on a stoner forum is somewhat scarey...lol....+rep


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## luckandleather (Mar 30, 2011)

IAm5toned said:


> you will be fine..... they take high humidity into concern when designing bathroom fixtures
> 
> and code says a light fixture with a cord length shorter than 8 foot is not required to be grounded...........
> tho for safety's sake, it always helps to have a path for fault current.



the cord is aprox 9'


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## smokey green (Mar 30, 2011)

sure can , your looking at using 18 amps with 2 1000 watters...just keep in mind the other loads (if any) that are on this 30 amp circuit. you should probably have a 20 amp fuse in place of the 30amp ....If nothing else is going to be on this circuit, I would suggest using a 20 amp fuse instead...that way the fuse will blow quicker if there is a problem.

(just thought Id give you a quick hand here brick, looks like you got your hands full...lol... ps. im not new here (been on riu since 08, just decided to make a new account)


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## IAm5toned (Mar 30, 2011)

smokey green said:


> From a fellow electricician to another, great thing what your doing here man, the thought of a lot of do it yourselfers on a stoner forum is somewhat scarey...lol....+rep


idnt it tho?


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## IAm5toned (Mar 30, 2011)

brick abandoned this thread a long time ago....


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## IAm5toned (Mar 31, 2011)

smokey green said:


> sure can , your looking at using 18 amps with 2 1000 watters...just keep in mind the other loads (if any) that are on this 30 amp circuit. you should probably have a 20 amp fuse in place of the 30amp ....If nothing else is going to be on this circuit, I would suggest using a 20 amp fuse instead...that way the fuse will blow quicker if there is a problem.
> 
> (just thought Id give you a quick hand here brick, looks like you got your hands full...lol... ps. im not new here (been on riu since 08, just decided to make a new account)


fail.

2 x 1000w (plus ballast demand) = 2100-2200w

max wattage of a 20amp circuit, @ 120v = 1920w
(continuous duty)


PSA- circuit breakers are only designed to run @ 80%..... fyi.


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## IAm5toned (Mar 31, 2011)

Please refrain from answering questions on this thread, unless you are qualified to do so or are absolutely certain of the answer, or are quoting another qualified user...
And by qualified, I mean a journeyman, a master electrician, a lineman, or have a decent amount of exp(like 10+ years) in the feild of some kind of electrical installation, or design.

Because if you are just trying to help, and reply to someone with the first thing that comes off the top of your head, your not really helping,_ your guessing_, because you dont know whats actually going on, or the reasons behind it. Electricity is unique in that _local conditions_ play a major role in how your system operates, and what works for you, in Colorado, for ex, might burn down someones house in Australia, or vice versa. Beng an electrician is a pain in the ass, it takes alot of school, (5 years, associates or bachelors... my ass) and alot of time in the field (greater than 20k hours) to be even called an electrician, and being an internet electrician, where you cant even see whats going on... is challenging enough even for the experienced guys...

...Its like this, I suppose... say you were sick, and you went to the hospital emergency room. while your waiting, every other patient in the room comes up to you and pronounces you with a different disease... would you listen to them? hell no! lol..

But the difference between here and there, is that, the people that come here for help, usually dont know whats wrong or what to even look for to fix the problem, and are pretty likely to try anything they hear off of here, if only because they dont know any better; and when someone straight guesses @ an issue, and the poor homeowner/grower goes out, buys the part, puts it together, turns it on only to find out his problem still isnt solved, well, you just wasted that guys time and money, and took the risk of burning his place down, or even getting him/her hurt!

I know you just want to help, and thats ok, but bad advice isnt help!

Be informed.


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## smokey green (Mar 31, 2011)

I happen to be a journeyman, been one for 8 years, been an electrician since 99. If you were to use code, then yes I stand corrected, but running those lights 12 hrs a day on a 20 amp with 12 gauge wire will not blow the fuse and IMO is no harm..a 20 amp circuit can be loaded at 1920 watts using the codes 80% load rule. So again, If we are using code.... (as I guess we should be) then I stand corrected.... but bending the rules and running 85% load isnt going to burn down his house. you as an electrician should know this... arnt we all bending the rules here after all?


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## smokey green (Mar 31, 2011)

FYI Im a journeyman, been one for 8 years, been a certified electrician since 99. If you want to go by code, Then I stand corrected. And yes I know about the 80% load... but he's looking at about 85%. It wont hurt a damn thing as long as its a 20 amp circuit with 12 gauge wire and nothing else is on the circuit.
CODE= A 20 amp circuit can be loaded 1920 watts, 120 x 20 x 80%=1920 watts...
Bottom line is by code, its wrong... but bending the code a bit in this situation wont hurt....
after all, arnt we all bending rules here a bit?


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## smokey green (Mar 31, 2011)

Sorry for repeating twice...lol....wake n bake...


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## IAm5toned (Mar 31, 2011)

its all good man...

the point im getting @ tho, is if you tell someone its ok to bend the rules this time, they might think that its ok to bend them a little bit more next time... and you can see where that goes!

that post wasnt directed towards you or anyone personally, just in general, and I apologize if it seemed like it was.


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## smokey green (Apr 1, 2011)

IAm5toned said:


> its all good man...
> 
> the point im getting @ tho, is if you tell someone its ok to bend the rules this time, they might think that its ok to bend them a little bit more next time... and you can see where that goes!
> 
> ...


 
I understand man....and im sorry for coming off the way i did...I did take it the wrong way.. your right, and I know where bending the rules gets a lotta folks...but i did mention in his situatuion, it would be ok...lol....but you are right..and I appoligize...


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## sladeofdark (Apr 3, 2011)

awww listen to you ladies kiss and make up.. 
Nah just kidding..anyway, i cant message you IAM b/c your box is full but just wanted you and Daniel to know i am going to be installing my electrical by myself. After all the research ive done and the 4 or 5 electricians i had come out and give me quotes, i realize that like alot of things i can handle this myself. I ran my romex and installed my first outlets yesterday and it was a success. I will be filming the installation of the rest of my outlets so everyone can enjoy and learn and maybe i can even grab some rep. I always like to give back and help, and you guys have saved me about $600 with your advice straight up. I started a new thread and so im probably gonna finish up the thread and have it moved to this more appropriate thread later or something.


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## pigeon toe (Apr 3, 2011)

IAm5toned said:


> its all good man...
> 
> the point im getting @ tho, is if you tell someone its ok to bend the rules this time, they might think that its ok to bend them a little bit more next time... and you can see where that goes!
> 
> that post wasnt directed towards you or anyone personally, just in general, and I apologize if it seemed like it was.



after reading through this little tag team of who knows what?? i have to say ...you both need to brush up a little. it was a fuse, not a breaker. fuses have a totally different load factoring. and fuses are based on the type of fuse used. but then i am sure you guys knew that....Right? 

but in all consideration the simple fact that your giving laymen, instructions to do work with out supervision is both helpful and dangerous. anyone who has the proper training knows this by way of the very training they received. be it by the method said training was given, or the work they have acquired over the years by laymen who didnt have a clue. and should have never been twisting wires in the first place.

as i use to tell my employees for years... the most dangerous electrician is the smart one, not the dumb one. at least the dumb one has limits ! but that smart one will always think he/she is one intelligent thought ahead of everyone else.
peace out


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## IAm5toned (Apr 3, 2011)

u mean they make more than one type of fuse?


GOLLY!

i would have never guessed.........



and i would say the most dangerous electrician, is the ignorant one.


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## pigeon toe (Apr 3, 2011)

sure didnt expect that response, yeah right ! LMAO you might need a better attitude adjustment program. or better yet just remove the stick from your......

have a good night


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## jason1976 (Apr 3, 2011)

i just found a 220 volt wire under my house . possibly an old ac unit wire. gave me a good jolt and kicked the breaker. 30 amp two pole breaker. what can i do with that?


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## 504 boy (Apr 4, 2011)

Will a hps ballast run a mh lamp?


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## bgreen305 (Apr 4, 2011)

Hello everyone! This is my first post but I have been reading for about 3 years and growing for about 10. I have a quick question.
Is is safe/possible to plug a C.A.P. MLC-8XT master light controller which is rated at 40 amps into a 30 amp 240 volt dryer outlet? I will only be using 2 1000 watts at 240 volt which I believe is less than 17 amps. I have minimal electrical knowledge and would like to avoid burning down my apartment. I know that I can hardwire the unit but that is not an option. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## bgreen305 (Apr 4, 2011)

Less than 10 amps is what I meant to say.

And I know that a CAP MLC4 would be perfect for what I am currently doing but I plan on moving soon and upgrading the amount of lighting to where I would need a MLC-8XT. I am also unable to upgrade the breaker.


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## chucktaze (Apr 5, 2011)

hi there! thanks for your willingness to help us out! I am a first time grower and am exploring my options when it comes to lighting... i found this ( http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=34776&st=0 ) and am very interested in it and want to try to make it... problem is i dont know anything about wiring really, but am mechanically inclined and i think could figure it out if i just had some help... thanks in advance for any help you may offer!


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## JYMBOJONES (Apr 17, 2011)

Got a wiring question that Im sure has been a asked billions of times, but I can't seem to find a simple answer. 
Here is the scenario:

My breaker box is full, but there is a seldom used 40 amp breaker going out to the barn and an unused plug on its own 20 amp breaker in a hall closet, plus the sockets in my room which are unreliable because they share breakers with other rooms outlets. Would it be safer/easier/cheaper to run a 220 line from the 40 amp breaker to a power board with 4-6 220v outlets and 4-6 110v outlets or just run the lights of the 20 amp hall closet and keep my fans and accessories on the wall sockets? Right now Im running a 600, a 250, and next week will be adding 3 more 600s. I'll be moving in the near future and also be adding AC, so figured now is the time to build a power board if there ever was one. I need some understanding of whether I can splice it off the mainline to a separate breaker box on the power board, or have to go from a breaker. Thanks, any diagrams you want to throw at me or advice is appreciated.


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## thia999 (Apr 25, 2011)

can i use a 12-2g directly from a 30 amp to 3 or 4 outlets? trying to do 3 or 4 - 1000w hps


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## Danielsgb (Apr 25, 2011)

thia999 said:


> can i use a 12-2g directly from a 30 amp to 3 or 4 outlets? trying to do 3 or 4 - 1000w hps


Here is IAm5toned's chart.
30a is good for 2880w so you can't run 3 or 4 1000w. A 30a needs a #10awg, and I think you have #12 if I get what you asked. Remember fans and hydro stuff uses watts too. So you can run 2 1000w to the 30a and there is 880w left to use.
Sorry it's only a partial answer, but hope it helps.
Daniels



IAm5toned said:


> *common continuous duty grow operation wattages based on voltage, with breaker and wire sizes. all wire sizes are based on thwn-2/thhn Cu conductors with a max run of 300'*
> * breaker size----volts------ max wattage allowed ----smallest wire size allowed *
> 
> 
> ...


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## Chem Dawg (Apr 25, 2011)

mrjonesez said:


> it uses the same watts no matter what. so for anyone listening, you can quit thinking your saving money on these things. it just burns off the excess energy in heat!! now after i said all of that i will retract that statement if anyone knows if these ballasts let you remove your 1000watt bulb and let you install a 400 in its place. then i would actually think about buying one of those overpriced ballasts.
> If the bulb is rated for 1000 watts then it is going to pull that 1000 watts no matter what.


I just purchased a lumatek multi watt that does just that. Has 4 settings, 600w, 750w, 1000w, & super lumens . Turn knob to 600w and place a 600w bulb then turn to 1000w and swap to a 1000w bulb .. That simple... Or with the 1000w bulb turn knob to super lumens and it pumps close to 1200 w . Best ballast ever bro!!!


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## IAm5toned (Apr 26, 2011)

till it burns out in 36 months.

ive got mag ballasts that have been running 12/12 365 days a year, for 9 years and counting.
show me a lumatek that can do that.


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## IAm5toned (Apr 26, 2011)

ps-

im not really monitoring this thread anymore.
click the link in my sig if you actually need advice.


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## ashinkusher (May 12, 2011)

i have a ? about wiring a thermostat/humidist to control a outlet for my exhaust fan. Also I wanna know if it's safe to run all this on a single 30 amp curcuit breaker. I would like to run a 600 watt hps, 3.5amp water pump run 24/7, 7watt air pump, small fan, and a 1.9amp exuast fan with thermostat controled receptical. The curcuit is also shared with a refridgirator, window a/c, small tv, and 2 60 watt lights.


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## farmer frank (May 12, 2011)

I hope dude u r kidding ...cuz all that will lead to fire n burning ur place down ..glad u askd but common sense should of told u that man ...use 3/4 of the 30 apms ...use extensions cords if have too..but u ccant get away with thar


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## johnnyringo84 (May 12, 2011)

I just bought one of these for my attic because it's way too hot up there with my lights and shit. 

http://www.amazon.com/Attic-CX1600-Ventilators-4-5-Amp-14-Inch/dp/B001V5J1XA/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1305243547&sr=8-4

Can this be wired directly to a 120 v grounded power cord? Or does it have to be hardwired?

Thanks in advance.


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## SiRStonedAlot (May 15, 2011)

Wish I would have saw this thread sooner, new to the forums and made my own thread asking questions about electrical needs for 2 1000watt lights + fans, exhaust, etc (and maybe 1 more light)

here was my post...

Here's the scenario, I'm planning on setting up a spare room for a medical grow, with 2 1000 watt lumentek digital ballasts, along with a 6" votex 449cfm, and a few other fans and a couple air pumps for DWC buckets. With that said, I only have a 20amp circut running to the desired grow room, as well as my master bedroom and main bathroom (all share the same 20amp circut). 

so I guess the quesiton is what do I do? Have an electrician come out and run 2 more 20amp lines with outlets in the desired closet which will house the ballasts and exhuast etc (while the main flowering area will be in the bedroom). or should I have a 30amp 240v line run, and get a controller and just convert the ballasts over with 240v cords? This is a more expensive route because of the need to get a controller. 

Is there any cheap way out of this? I know none of this is cheap, shit I've already spent 2 grand and I'm still waiting for my clones to root, LOL.

I was going to tell the electrician that I'm going to have a home office with a server room in the closet, so I could get him to run 2 more 20amp lines with outlets for each (obviously). It would be a little harder to convince him if i was having him run a 240v line to some control box (unless I get a control box that plugs into a 240v outlet that I have him install).

Even though the grow will be legal, I don't want anyone knowing about it so discresion is a must when it comes to my solution.


Thoughts?

Thanks in advance!

SiR


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## SiRStonedAlot (May 17, 2011)

*IAm5toned* soloved my problem! I followed his link and he was spot on with the answers  

I ended up getting 3 dedicated 20 amp circuits ran to my area, so I should have plenty of power for now!


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## TJefferson (May 17, 2011)

Might as well drop this in here as well (I also made a thread about it).

I live in the U.S. and I'm looking to convert the wall heater in my bedroom into a 220v outlet to hook up light(s) to. How complex of a job is that and could I safely do it myself? If I were to hire an electrician, what do you think they would charge for such a (small) job? Finally, what kind of outlet would I be looking to install? I'd like it to be reversible so I can put it all back before I sell it.


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## BigBudBalls (May 17, 2011)

TJefferson said:


> Might as well drop this in here as well (I also made a thread about it).
> 
> I live in the U.S. and I'm looking to convert the wall heater in my bedroom into a 220v outlet to hook up light(s) to. How complex of a job is that and could I safely do it myself? If I were to hire an electrician, what do you think they would charge for such a (small) job? Finally, what kind of outlet would I be looking to install? I'd like it to be reversible so I can put it all back before I sell it.


Is the heater now 220V ? If so, its more a matter of the getting the right plug for the light(s).
If its 110V, then why go to 220V? It doesn't save any money, just reduces the size of the wire needed for the same watts being pulled/used.


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## TJefferson (May 17, 2011)

BigBudBalls said:


> Is the heater now 220V ? If so, its more a matter of the getting the right plug for the light(s).
> If its 110V, then why go to 220V? It doesn't save any money, just reduces the size of the wire needed for the same watts being pulled/used.


 Yes, it's a 1000w heater on a 220v/20amp circuit (double pole breaker).


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## TJefferson (May 17, 2011)

Instead of messing with that, I wonder if it would be better to just have an 220v outlet professionally installed. The room is directly above the panel (which is in the garage below). If you put it in the outside wall it's literally about 6 feet from the panel vertically. I have an 'empty' 20 amp breaker that was used for a compressor but has been converted back. Kind of a strange deal there..but anyway (I suspect the people before me grew, but that's another story).

I'd love to have the 220v outlet in the room so I could hook up a 600/1000 hps, two 600/1000 hps to it, or a 600/1000 hps and a portable A/C. But it's confusing as hell trying to find the right outlet which can accommodate the correct plug..


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## guppette (May 23, 2011)

Hi, Just a quick question I am needing some advice on wiring a humidistat and a thermostat wired in line to control a vent fan. Know it can be done but am drawing a blank. Any info helpful, thanks in advance


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## matatan (May 23, 2011)

i have a 20 amp circuit that has my stove and one outlet on it. i want to run an extension cord from that outlet to my grow space for a 600 watt hps. is this ok? my extension cord is 25ft long, 16 gauge, 13 amp -125v, 1635 maximum watts, insulated for 300 v. all that info is on the cover. what ya think?


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## Danielsgb (May 23, 2011)

matatan said:


> i have a 20 amp circuit that has my stove and one outlet on it. i want to run an extension cord from that outlet to my grow space for a 600 watt hps. is this ok? my extension cord is 25ft long, 16 gauge, 13 amp -125v, 1635 maximum watts, insulated for 300 v. all that info is on the cover. what ya think?


Are you sure it isn't a 220v outlet? Most stoves (and any I ever seen) are the different plug for 220v. 
Or maybe you are saying the 20amp circuit has the 220v for stove and a single outlet like a normal 110v. I'd wait for solid confirmation, but if so that cord sounds good enough to me.


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## matatan (May 23, 2011)

Danielsgb said:


> Are you sure it isn't a 220v outlet? Most stoves (and any I ever seen) are the different plug for 220v.
> Or maybe you are saying the 20amp circuit has the 220v for stove and a single outlet like a normal 110v. I'd wait for solid confirmation, but if so that cord sounds good enough to me.


yes, i just pulled the stove and it is a 220v. and yes that same breaker has a normal outlet in the dining room, which is the same outlet i wish to run the extension cord from to my ballast.


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## Danielsgb (May 23, 2011)

matatan said:


> yes, i just pulled the stove and it is a 220v. and yes that same breaker has a normal outlet in the dining room, which is the same outlet i wish to run the extension cord from to my ballast.


OK, so from IAm5toned's chart.here is the watts from a circuit.


* 20 amp breaker @ 120v = 1920w(16 amps actual) max = #12 awg Cu wire, min*


*20 amp breaker @ 240v = 3840w(16 amps actual) max = #12 awg Cu wire, min*
But I'm not sure how that works when a 20amp runs both that 220v and 1 110v. But since the ballast is 660w (always +10% for coil of ballast) it's not like you are getting near the limits of one circuit. I would try the lamp and stove and see if it flips the breaker.
You can ask him on this thread.
*Electrical Advice for the grower*


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## spooner420 (May 24, 2011)

I have a 50 amp breaker that is connected to my MLC-8xt I have 6000 watts running @ 240 I also noticed the electrician has wired 4 gfi plugs coming out of the 50amp breaker box. Every time I add anthing to any one of the plugs it trips the beaker? I am plugging in 2 12" wall fans less than 2 amp each.I 12" vortex, fuzzy logic and Gen-1eng. Now even if I unplug all devices and only pug in 2 wall fans it will still cause the breaker to reset. Why is this happening?


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## That 5hit (May 24, 2011)

how does this thing look
i mean is it spot on


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## drcheat (Jun 1, 2011)

I split an old pc power cable, and it has a green wire, blue, and a dark burgundy. 
Does anyone know which wire is which? I want to use it to plug in an inline duct fan.


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 5, 2011)

Where's the neutral? I see ground


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## zvuv (Jun 17, 2011)

Is the OP no longer answering question?

I have two breakers and there are 8 circuits that need power. All the branching is done with twist connectors inside a junction box but I find I am connecting four wires under a single connector. Is this kosher? Is it appropriate to use a connector block to distribute power to the circuits?


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## mrmadcow (Jun 17, 2011)

That 5hit said:


> how does this thing look
> i mean is it spot on


 it will work but it shares the neutral and ground so it doesn't have a ground. not the safest thing to use but ok for tempary use if your careful.you would not be able to buy one wired like that as it would never pass UL listing.




zvuv said:


> .... All the branching is done with twist connectors inside a junction box but I find I am connecting four wires under a single connector. Is this kosher? Is it appropriate to use a connector block to distribute power to the circuits?


cant answer to what they do in europe but if you are in N America & using 110, I can help. when you say connector,do you mean wire nut? then yes,its ok to put several wires under 1 nut as long as they fit. if by connector, you mean a screw terminal at the outlet, then no,only 1 wire per screw although some are designed w/ a little plate under the screw so you can put a wire on each side.


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## zvuv (Jun 17, 2011)

Yeah this is 110v, single phase. Yes I have four wires in a twist connector. I dont like it and if I add more circuits its going to be a real mess. I could daisy chain them but I dont like that either. Isn't there a neater solution?


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## astroastro (Jun 19, 2011)

> I have a 50 amp breaker that is connected to my MLC-8xt I have 6000 watts running @ 240 I also noticed the electrician has wired 4 gfi plugs coming out of the 50amp breaker box. Every time I add anthing to any one of the plugs it trips the beaker? I am plugging in 2 12" wall fans less than 2 amp each.I 12" vortex, fuzzy logic and Gen-1eng. Now even if I unplug all devices and only pug in 2 wall fans it will still cause the breaker to reset. Why is this happening?​


​

Hey spooner- help me out here with the terminology- what is a fuzzy logic and a Gen-1 eng. Thanks.


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## nice420 (Jun 20, 2011)

zvuv said:


> Is the OP no longer answering question?


i recall seeing a post a ways back of OP saying he is no longer actively monitoring this thread


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## Danielsgb (Jun 20, 2011)

IAm5toned posts on Club Speedy where he is a Mod, or he's on RiddleMe's new site with a lot of veteran growers at Riddlem3.com


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## dray86man (Jun 21, 2011)

I'm in the electrical design phase of my grow room. I've drawn up a system that uses an Intermatic double pole single throw timer wired into a "mini panel" that distributes the power from the timer to my 240V grow light, a 120V light mover and a 120V duct booster fan that brings fresh air into the room.

If I hand draw, scan, and post the layout can an electrician in the group check it out?

Great message board and forum. Thanks.


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## markus05 (Jun 21, 2011)

Can all of your devices can work in both 50HZ and 60HZ(European/American, in that order) frequencies?


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## dray86man (Jun 21, 2011)

markus05 said:


> Can all of your devices can work in both 50HZ and 60HZ(European/American, in that order) frequencies?


Apologies; forgetting we have European and North American systems here.

My units I believe are designated for 60 Hz.

Duct booster fan for make-up/supply air to room:

*http://tinyurl.com/3jjgmjv

*Light mover:

http://www.lightrail3.com/light-rail-3-5-light-mover/

Grow light:

http://www.specialty-lights.com/1000mh-hpskit-cb6.html

Thanks for the reads and replies.


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## dray86man (Jun 21, 2011)

This is what I'm controlling with this circuit: a 240V 1000W lamp, a 120V fan to ventilate the lamp hood, and a 120v light mover.

Here's the design:







I'll run the ground separately from the 240V line to be able to ground the 120V appliances.

Opinions?

Thanks.


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## mister632 (Jun 22, 2011)

i got a question, they opens a store here were you could buy knives and such but they also sell grow stuff, and they sell high weattage cfls like 100-200 i believe, plus they can order anything you want, my question is, what kind of light socket/ light fixture can i use to be able to run a 100-200 watt cfl? pic or link to the socket would be greatly appreciated


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## zvuv (Jun 23, 2011)

mister632 said:


> i got a question, they opens a store here were you could buy knives and such but they also sell grow stuff, and they sell high weattage cfls like 100-200 i believe, plus they can order anything you want, my question is, what kind of light socket/ light fixture can i use to be able to run a 100-200 watt cfl? pic or link to the socket would be greatly appreciated


I use ceramic sockets. They are cheap and can handle almost any wattage.

@*dray86man* tx.


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## mister632 (Jun 23, 2011)

zvuv said:


> I use ceramic sockets. They are cheap and can handle almost any wattage.
> 
> @*dray86man* tx.


thx for the reply boss. when you mean ceramic sockets? what do you mean by that? are those the one in home depot for like a buck fifty? maybe a link? imma look it up right now, but if you have spare time maybe give me a link so i dont buy the wrong one + rep


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## keepitgreener (Jun 23, 2011)

hey i could probally use ur help.... new to rollit up,, dont know how to im


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## zvuv (Jun 24, 2011)

mister632 said:


> thx for the reply boss. when you mean ceramic sockets? what do you mean by that? are those the one in home depot for like a buck fifty? ...


Yep those. Cheap, simple solid and you dont have to worry about overheating or wattage ratings. My 600W HPS lamp uses a ceramic Mogul socket which is the same thing in a larger size.


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## q3aserver (Jun 24, 2011)

Why does it appear that my ground bar and common bar are connected in my breaker box?

Thanks


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## zvuv (Jun 24, 2011)

I am not an electrician but it's my understanding that ground and neutral are the same thing. In some 220v plugs, common is used as the ground. The ground wire is really an alternate neutral to provide a return path for the current in case the case is hot due to a short or somesuch.


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## Danielsgb (Jun 24, 2011)

ground and neutral aren't the same thing. dangerous advice.


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## zvuv (Jun 24, 2011)

Danielsgb said:


> ground and neutral aren't the same thing. dangerous advice.


Well in all the circuits I've worked on, ground and neutral read as connected on a meter. In the main box provided by the county ground and neutral are physicaly connected.


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## Danielsgb (Jun 24, 2011)

Look here, he explains it.
http://speedyseedz.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?66-Electrical-Advice


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## zvuv (Jun 25, 2011)

@Daniels. Thanks for the link, I will check it out.


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## d'Artagnan (Jun 28, 2011)

Hi guys, I am new here.

I registered due to electrical questions that I have and my search sent me here. 

Basically what I need to know is... how do I safely keep power to 3 1000w HPS and one 600w T5, 4 fans, one green bulb, and an air conditioner unit. 

I want to have enough amps or volts to safely keep all of this on and also maybe have some more room to add more electricity. 

As of now I am going to have a 220V "breaker" I think they're called. will this be enough to hook everything up? 

Thanks in advance. 

-d'Artagnan


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## Danielsgb (Jun 28, 2011)

Check you rep. to get some answer. Also you need to add up the total watts. IAm5toned is good at this so ask him where he is a Mod of a section of a forum. First off you need the w or amps of the AC and fans. It will determine what breaker you need for Amps. My guess without looking it up is 30a.
Daniels


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## dray86man (Jun 29, 2011)

Danielsgb said:


> ground and neutral aren't the same thing. dangerous advice.


Yes, in most systems they ARE the same thing. Just take a look inside your circuit breaker box. The ground bus and the neutral bus ARE the same thing. Just don't bond/join the ground and the neutral anywhere EXCEPT at the main breaker box.


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## dray86man (Jun 29, 2011)

q3aserver said:


> Why does it appear that my ground bar and common bar are connected in my breaker box?
> 
> Thanks


Because they are. Just don't bond or join the neutral and ground anywhere in the system EXCEPT at the main breaker box.


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## maiohwrofemvul (Jun 29, 2011)

.11a fan needs 1100mA Dc converter?? right now MY fan is hooked up to a 700mA Dc converter the fan which is .11a.. unsafe?


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## dray86man (Jun 29, 2011)

d'Artagnan said:


> Hi guys, I am new here.
> 
> I registered due to electrical questions that I have and my search sent me here.
> 
> ...


Basic formula for amperage is:

WATTS = VOLTS X AMPS

You're proposing to run 3600W of lamps PLUS an AC unit PLUS a few odd 120V appliances?

And using ONE 240V circuit?

3600 watts / 240 volts = 15 amps.

You didn't mention the volts on the AC unit, so let's say it's a 120V 5000 BTU unit. They draw about 10 amps or so.

Now we're up to 25 amps being drawn...through ONE circuit. This becomes an issue with the size of the wire used. The more amps, the larger the wire needs to be.


http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm


10 AWG would be necessary from the breaker box to the outlet, however you want to run 120 AND 240 volt appliances.

Best bet here would be a sub panel.

http://www.renovation-headquarters.com/electrical-sub-panel.htm

Sub panels are a good move even for smaller grow rooms.


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## wyteboi (Jun 29, 2011)

d'Artagnan said:


> Hi guys, I am new here.
> 
> I registered due to electrical questions that I have and my search sent me here.
> 
> ...


this will depend on exactly what ballast you plan on runnin the 3600w. ? then how many t5 bulbs an we can guess on the a/c unit and fans.

an no a "220 breaker" will not be enough by itself. (unless wired correctly) 
your going to need *at least* a 220 breaker , and 2 110 breakers.....



soil


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## dray86man (Jun 30, 2011)

d'Artagnan said:


> Hi guys, I am new here.
> 
> I registered due to electrical questions that I have and my search sent me here.
> 
> ...


Sub-panels are the way to go.

*http://tinyurl.com/3bjb8ev*


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## IAm5toned (Jun 30, 2011)

yall need help lol


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## wyteboi (Jul 1, 2011)

hey whats up 5toned ? i can try to help out but could never feel your shoes! 
wheres bubbles ? he run off ?


you should probably add epson salt to your sig 



wyteboi


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## vegassil80 (Jul 2, 2011)

Ok I'm wanting to upgrade from 600 watts to 1800-2400 watts I have an outlet in the room I'm using that an ac plugs into on the cord of the ac the plug reads 30a 250v its a 3 prong outlet what I'm wondering is if I go buy a light controller if I can plug it into this outlet an run my lights off the controller or am I going to need an electrian? The outlet is -.- not l.l fyi


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## Dubbz0r (Jul 2, 2011)

Hello electricians! I have a question regarding my ballasts and timer. 

My ballasts = 1000w Baddass low frequency digital ballast (x2)
My timer = Sentinel MDT-1

I would like to run both ballasts off of this timer. What I've been told is this... I will need a 240v line and a relay switch? Once I have the relay hooked into the 240 I can plug in both ballasts and run them off of the MDT-1 without a problem. The MDT-1 can only handle 1440w so is there a way to run both ballasts off of this MDT-1 and if so, how exactly? What kind of relay? Links?

Thanks in advance!
I will +rep for help!


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## dragun (Jul 4, 2011)

i have been using ungrounded power strips for 3 years now.no problems yet..what could go wrong? also i want to use a extension cord to power my window a/c.but the owners manual says not to.they just tryn to cover there ass?


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## HarryCanary03 (Jul 4, 2011)

Hey everyone , 
pretty new to the whole forum thing. and extremely new to the whole indoor thing. i hope you all can answer my question. 
I have just purchased a 1000 watt set up. the ballast says i can run it 120 or 240 ... but i thought we only had 110 and 220 here in the states am i wrong ?
well i want to run it at 240 so the amps run a little lower. i have a sub panel already ran from the main panel. 
heres my next question : should i run 3 wire where the ground and neutral share a common or run 4 ? also what gage wire might i wanna use if i'm gonna run off a 30 amp breaker ?

thanks !!


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## alphawolf.hack (Jul 4, 2011)

i have a quetion about 240 volt does it lower the amps used or just seperate them? and is my dryer runnin 29 amps on 120 or 240? i would like to us the ciruit cuz i cant add new breakers plus they dont exist . "type p270" google it. and my main is the same type of breaker and its only rated at 100 amps


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## wyteboi (Jul 5, 2011)

HarryCanary03 said:


> Hey everyone ,
> pretty new to the whole forum thing. and extremely new to the whole indoor thing. i hope you all can answer my question.
> I have just purchased a 1000 watt set up. the ballast says i can run it 120 or 240 ... but i thought we only had 110 and 220 here in the states am i wrong ?


You wont be able to run it at 240 from a residential home. The most you can get outta one single conducter is 110v unless there is some new ballast out there that will accept 2 110's instead of just one.



HarryCanary03 said:


> well i want to run it at 240 so the amps run a little lower. i have a sub panel already ran from the main panel.
> heres my next question : should i run 3 wire where the ground and neutral share a common or run 4 ? also what gage wire might i wanna use if i'm gonna run off a 30 amp breaker ?
> 
> thanks !!


A 30 requires 10 guage wire. If you only have one light then you wont have to "share" any ground. One 15amp breaker with a piece of 14/2 run directly from your sub to your light/timer is what you want....... i think.

There is also little to no reason to try an run a ballast at 240 because it will only lower the amps , NOT the watts and the power company reads in kilowatts. The only good thing about runnin 240 is that you can put more lights on one single wire (so at 240 you could run 2 1000's on one piece of 14/2 and a 15 amp breaker but it would not save any money)


wyteboi


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## wyteboi (Jul 5, 2011)

vegassil80 said:


> Ok I'm wanting to upgrade from 600 watts to 1800-2400 watts I have an outlet in the room I'm using that an ac plugs into on the cord of the ac the plug reads 30a 250v its a 3 prong outlet what I'm wondering is if I go buy a light controller if I can plug it into this outlet an run my lights off the controller or am I going to need an electrian? The outlet is -.- not l.l fyi



You just need to know exactly whats tied in with that outlet? There are probably other outlets/lights wired on the same circuit as your outlet. Go find out witch breaker controlls that outlet an see how many amps it is ... then come back. Also what kind of controller were you considering?



wyteboi


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## hittsfromthebong420 (Jul 5, 2011)

is two 250 hps 12/12 with 6" or 8" vent oscilating fan too much for one outlet goona plug it into a power strip surge protector?


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## wyteboi (Jul 5, 2011)

Dubbz0r said:


> Hello electricians! I have a question regarding my ballasts and timer.
> 
> My ballasts = 1000w Baddass low frequency digital ballast (x2)
> My timer = Sentinel MDT-1
> ...


Cant say i know a lot bout relays , but that timer ran at 110v will not be sufficient for 2 1000's. yes you would have to run the lights at 240 to get that controller to work. i will look into the relay thing for you.


wyteboi


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## wyteboi (Jul 5, 2011)

hittsfromthebong420 said:


> is two 250 hps 12/12 with 6" or 8" vent oscilating fan too much for one outlet goona plug it into a power strip surge protector?


you should be fine IF there is not too much other stuff in your house ran off that outlet. _Most_ outlets are minimum of 15 amps and your setup is less then 7 amps so you should be fine. (the surge protectors are good for about 1000w and some are more......keep an eye on your surge protector , some of those things are junk!)



wyteboi


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## wyteboi (Jul 5, 2011)

dragun said:


> i have been using ungrounded power strips for 3 years now.no problems yet..what could go wrong? also i want to use a extension cord to power my window a/c.but the owners manual says not to.they just tryn to cover there ass?


as long as the cord has a big enough guage of wire in it then your fine. some cheap cords are very tiny an cannot handle the load of an a/c unit.....



wyteboi


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## wyteboi (Jul 5, 2011)

alphawolf.hack said:


> i have a quetion about 240 volt does it lower the amps used or just seperate them? and is my dryer runnin 29 amps on 120 or 240? i would like to us the ciruit cuz i cant add new breakers plus they dont exist . "type p270" google it. and my main is the same type of breaker and its only rated at 100 amps


There are 2 110 wires going to your dryer so its tecnically runnin at 110. (you cant change that) Yes running at a true 240 cuts the amps in half but does not increase or reduce the watts being used , so it dont save money to run at 240 but it enables you to put more things on one wire. (if you run 2 1000's at 110 each it will be around 17 amps and would melt a 15 amp circuit , but if you ran the same lights at 240 then you would only be usin around 8or9 amps and a single 15 amp would be fine, BUT your still usin 2000 watts.)



wyteboi


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## alphawolf.hack (Jul 5, 2011)

so is it the dryer running at 28 amps or half that because it is on a 30 amp 240 circuit and if it is half of that i would like to use the remainder of the amps for lights


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## alphawolf.hack (Jul 5, 2011)

its says "120/240 26.1Amps"


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## michmed (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm wondering how much cooling I will need to cool 12 x 1000W lights in 1140 sf basement, "closed system" i.e. all lights will be fully vented pulling outside air directly into the light and exhausting it to the outside, I'd much rather buy inline fans than A/C units of course

Basement is in Michigan and relatively cool even in summer house is on central A/C and relatively well insulated.

my intention is to have each light lighting a 5'x5' area with four plants under each light


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## Kdn (Jul 5, 2011)

I run a room off a 30 amp 220 dryer run, 10-4 cable(dryer plug one end) to a load center then 4(110) circuits out from there (these are relay controled, 1600 watts on a single relay without any issues)


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## wyteboi (Jul 6, 2011)

alphawolf.hack said:


> so is it the dryer running at 28 amps or half that because it is on a 30 amp 240 circuit and if it is half of that i would like to use the remainder of the amps for lights


there are 2 "hot" wires going to your dryer. One uses x amount of amps an the other uses the rest to = 26 amps, so its using the full amount it says , just not on one single conductor. If you are using the dryer too , then you will not have enough power left over to run anything.


hope that helped......

wyteboi


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## wyteboi (Jul 6, 2011)

michmed said:


> I'm wondering how much cooling I will need to cool 12 x 1000W lights in 1140 sf basement, "closed system" i.e. all lights will be fully vented pulling outside air directly into the light and exhausting it to the outside, I'd much rather buy inline fans than A/C units of course
> 
> Basement is in Michigan and relatively cool even in summer house is on central A/C and relatively well insulated.
> 
> my intention is to have each light lighting a 5'x5' area with four plants under each light


your going to need quite a bit of cooling even with the lights being "closed". The ballast get really hot too. i just cant see one window unit being enough. you will need your central a/c and some to cool that down.




wyteboi ....


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## wyteboi (Jul 6, 2011)

hey wolfhack ..... you can still get those old style breakers from the internet, they are high as hell but you can get them.
here is a 40 amp on ebay : http://cgi.ebay.com/Gould-Ite-pushmatic-circuit-breaker-40-amp-240-vac-NEW-/220708683887?pt=BI_Circuit_Breakers_Transformers&hash=item336343406f

google "pushmatic breakers" you'll get more results....


wyteboi....


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## pacmanII (Jul 7, 2011)

im building my room, its a empty bedroom, 8'10'8, with 4 outlets in the room , one on each room , no gfi outlets. i am wondering if a t5, 4 bulbs(6500k 54 watts) and a small fan, i inline fan, the other outlet a small fan, plus the 600hps light and ballaster, outlet 3 is the inline fan for carbon filter, a fan, outlet 4, i might want to put a portable a/c unit in. (my room already tripped when i bought the house last year,) it was built @ 2007, i just want to be safe, thanks


----------



## Danielsgb (Jul 7, 2011)

pacmanII said:


> im building my room, its a empty bedroom, 8'10'8, with 4 outlets in the room , one on each room , no gfi outlets. i am wondering if a t5, 4 bulbs(6500k 54 watts) and a small fan, i inline fan, the other outlet a small fan, plus the 600hps light and ballaster, outlet 3 is the inline fan for carbon filter, a fan, outlet 4, i might want to put a portable a/c unit in. (my room already tripped when i bought the house last year,) it was built @ 2007, i just want to be safe, thanks


I would plug in something like a light bulb, or a radio. Then flip the breakers one at a time till you find which one it is. Then check the other 3 outlets to be sure all are on the same circuit. It's probably 15 amp or 20 amp. Here is the chart from IAm5toned.



*15 amp breaker @ 120v = 1440w(12 amps actual) max = #14 awg Cu wire, min*
* 20 amp breaker @ 120v = 1920w(16 amps actual) max = #12 awg Cu wire, min*

They call it mapping the wiring. Then you know how much you can wire to it.


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## wyteboi (Jul 7, 2011)

pacmanII said:


> im building my room, its a empty bedroom, 8'10'8, with 4 outlets in the room , one on each room , no gfi outlets. i am wondering if a t5, 4 bulbs(6500k 54 watts) and a small fan, i inline fan, the other outlet a small fan, plus the 600hps light and ballaster, outlet 3 is the inline fan for carbon filter, a fan, outlet 4, i might want to put a portable a/c unit in. (my room already tripped when i bought the house last year,) it was built @ 2007, i just want to be safe, thanks


and if them 4 outlets are all on the same cicuit then you will need at least one more 15 or 20 amp circuit for your project.


wyteboi


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## aidosmoke (Jul 14, 2011)

hi 
My garden shed is split into two sections one for veg and one for flowering. The veg section is narrow. I have one electric cable running into the shed and it provides a feed to both rooms. Which contains fan's, extractor fans the usual stuff. However I have since discovered in the veg room which has a 250 watt cfl, that when I touch the bulb reflector I get a very small shock, now it is very small. The reflector touches both sides of the room, which is covered in mylar. The reflector type is (http://www.thebigshop.com/cfl-pro-reflector-p-675.html). All my devices are plugged into one of those RCB breakers.

Any idea&#8217;s why I&#8217;m getting this shock? How can I prevent this? Do I need to provide an earth?

Thanks in advance


----------



## Riven67 (Jul 26, 2011)

I tried to private message bricktown73 but his box is full! So I will post this here and hope someone will try to anser my questions. Thanks in advance!

I am so glad I saw your thread! I know you probably answered this one to death but I'm really tired (sorry been a long day ) and your thread is really long so I thought I would just ask.
I have researched this to death but found no answers I'd take as truth.
I got a deal on some used 400w High Bays $20 each, when I got then home I noticed they'ed been running Metal Halide bulbs in a HPS ballasted fixture.
So at first I thought I hit the jackpot with conversion bulbs but no dice they are plain run of the mill MH's. So I pulled one out and replaced it with my own 400W HPS bulb and they work just fine. But it got me thinking and tinkering why not make it a convertable ballast? Here's my questions=

1. does it make a difference if I put a switch on the X3 (blue) wire to isolate the igniter as opposed to putting a double pole single throw switch on X1 & X2? Just curious as I found plans for both ways but decided to play it safe and do all three! But I'd still like to know what the reasoning behind each way is. 

2. The igniter in these fixtures is an Advance L501 I believe and is rated for only 2ft igniter to lamp distance. Can this be remote ballasted in anyway? Is the igniter unerrated, or can a more powerful one be used in it's place?

3. with the igniter cut from the circuit will a MH last longer and run cooler than the way they ran these with everything stock?

Well thanks in advance for any help you give. I really do appreciate being helped. 

P.S if anyone is interested in how this was done just ask and I'll send you a drawing with instructions. I would suggest however that you make sure you have sealed fixtures for safety if you try this.


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## Danielsgb (Jul 26, 2011)

I answered your PM. I'd go Ceramic Metal Halide. They use a HPS ballast. Way better spectrum. They run a bit cooler too. I'd never use a MH or HPS again. IMHO way better.


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## Riven67 (Jul 26, 2011)

Danielsgb said:


> I answered your PM. I'd go Ceramic Metal Halide. They use a HPS ballast. Way better spectrum. They run a bit cooler too. I'd never use a MH or HPS again. IMHO way better.


Yeah thanks I got your pm, I was looking into a CMH for the other 2 HighBays I got but was still in the process of doing some research for info. So you think the spectrum is truly better? Does the light look natural as opossed to the blueish gray of MH or the yellow/red of HPS?


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## Danielsgb (Jul 26, 2011)

Riven67 said:


> Yeah thanks I got your pm, I was looking into a CMH for the other 2 HighBays I got but was still in the process of doing some research for info. So you think the spectrum is truly better? Does the light look natural as opossed to the blueish gray of MH or the yellow/red of HPS?


Here is the Chart and two plants under a 400w CMH.
View attachment 1707771
Here is the cheapest bulb.
http://www.lightingsupply.com/CDM400S51-HOR-4K-ALTO.aspx
Here is more info
http://advancedtechlighting.com/cmhfact3.htm


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## Riven67 (Jul 27, 2011)

Cool, very cool thanks! So you use these from through the whole veg/flower cycle? no need to change bulbs?


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## Danielsgb (Jul 27, 2011)

Riven67 said:


> Cool, very cool thanks! So you use these from through the whole veg/flower cycle? no need to change bulbs?


Yep all the way through.


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## Riven67 (Jul 27, 2011)

Anyone have any experience with CXL Commercial Extended Life Bulbs? I got one with the HighBays I purchased, but here's the thing I cant figure out. These are HPS ballasts all running MH bulbs. I modified one of ballast to be convertable but this bulb will only light in the unmoddified position or one of the unmoddified fixtures. It's marked CXL MH400/u. CXL does make a conversion bulb but it should be MH400/retro. 
So my question I guess is has anyone ever bought a conversion bulb from this manufacturer and what is marked on that bulb? 
Could I have a conversion bulb here and not know it? Or could this bulb have been damaged so as not to be able to work with any ballast other than hps?
Any thoughts guys?


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## Riven67 (Jul 27, 2011)

Danielsgb said:


> Yep all the way through.


I ordered 2 Phillips Ceramic Metal Halide Bulbs today, I can't wait to get them in my lamps! Thanks again for the info.


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## Danielsgb (Jul 27, 2011)

Check your rep.


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## Riven67 (Jul 27, 2011)

Danielsgb said:


> Check your rep.


Very Cool! I had not paid any attention to Rep points, Thanks everyone for giving me your approval. I try to share good info. (and not ask too many annoying questions! LOL)


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## BlazedMonkey (Aug 29, 2011)

FUCK,  thank god im alive but i fucked up.

I was testing my fan and seeing the air speed and as i was pulling out the plug i let the metal touch the metal on the plug (BIG FUCKING MISTAKE) 

Sparks flew everywhere, for whatever reason i wasnt shocked but after it blew up my bathroom lights, sockets, bedroom lights, and sockets all dont work.

I tried flipping the breaker but to no avail.
Also tried pressing the socket button (when i thought it was just the bathroom) also did nothing. 

Please help does anyone have any suggestions or know what i need to do? 

Attached are pictures of the singed socket and where the metal contacted the fan and singed it.


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## BlazedMonkey (Aug 29, 2011)

Lol well after getting some needed rest and calming down a little i tried the breaker again found out it was a bit sticky and i managed to turn it to the off position. Then when i turned it back on it worked! 
Thank goodness was worried i ruined the wiring/circuit breaker at my place.

So im good, my wiring is good, and crazily my fan actually is working too. 

Whoooo,
Heed my warning RIU dont let electricity metal touch other metal stuff, lol.


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## wyteboi (Aug 30, 2011)

BlazedMonkey said:


> Lol well after getting some needed rest and calming down a little i tried the breaker again found out it was a bit sticky and i managed to turn it to the off position. Then when i turned it back on it worked!
> Thank goodness was worried i ruined the wiring/circuit breaker at my place.
> 
> So im good, my wiring is good, and crazily my fan actually is working too.
> ...



yea your fine , that socket should be fine , if not it's easy to replace. (with the breaker OFF) you just tripped the breaker , i am 100% you didnt damage your wiring. if that breaker feels "sticky" it might need replaced. your fan should be just fine too.

a slight shock is good for ya every once in a while ... i think ... hey maybe thats why im all fucked up .... its not the weed. 

yea be careful out there guys , electricity can an will kill you. 



soil


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## cannabutt (Aug 30, 2011)

How many 23 watt cfl's can run on 1 parallel 13 amp circuit (13 amp wall plug) 240v btw
Thanks


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## wyteboi (Aug 30, 2011)

cannabutt said:


> How many 23 watt cfl's can run on 1 parallel 13 amp circuit (13 amp wall plug) 240v btw
> Thanks


IF i understand you correctly then you could run 100 of them and still be slightly under 10 amps. thats at 240v.



soil


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## cannabutt (Aug 30, 2011)

wyteboi said:


> IF i understand you correctly then you could run 100 of them and still be slightly under 10 amps. thats at 240v.
> 
> 
> 
> soil


Yeah i worked out 110 max, just seemed a lot Thanks wyteboi


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## wisconsinsmoker (Sep 4, 2011)

hey i keep blowing 12v fans in my pc grow box what do you recomend for a voltage to amperage ratio on them?


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## jaydiesle (Sep 6, 2011)

wass up bricktown73 nice thread mate what would i have to do and get to install a CAP 8 Light Master Lighting Controller w/Timer MLC 8XT i got a 120v would like to switch to 240v what materials would i need for all thies btw im just getting the stuff ima have my uncle install everything thanx mate +rep


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## fabfun (Sep 6, 2011)

wisconsinsmoker said:


> hey i keep blowing 12v fans in my pc grow box what do you recomend for a voltage to amperage ratio on them?


if u are using computer fans u need 12v dc chargers sure they will work with less but not as fast as for amperage most listed on fan but u dont really have to worry about that 

but im sure op will post soon to advise u

edit: i see now op hasnt been on in a year?
ok i can help as im sure others can so ask away lol


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## wisconsinsmoker (Sep 6, 2011)

im running at 7.5v 2 amps and it is going faster then it was on the 12v 1 amp so im running them on the lower voltage now and its doing better havent burned one out yet


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## fabfun (Sep 6, 2011)

wisconsinsmoker said:


> im running at 7.5v 2 amps and it is going faster then it was on the 12v 1 amp so im running them on the lower voltage now and its doing better havent burned one out yet


but what does the label on fan say they r rated for


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## wisconsinsmoker (Sep 6, 2011)

all they say is 12v nothing about amps


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## fabfun (Sep 6, 2011)

wisconsinsmoker said:


> all they say is 12v nothing about amps


then why doesnt 12 volt chargers work for them
only time i had one burn out is when i had bare wires and shorted it


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## wisconsinsmoker (Sep 6, 2011)

have no bare wires i got them out of one of my fan boxes i build computers on the side and got like 50 of them and i solder all connections and use liquid tape to cover all splices so that tape doesnt just fall off eventually


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## wyteboi (Sep 8, 2011)

wisconsinsmoker said:


> have no bare wires i got them out of one of my fan boxes i build computers on the side and got like 50 of them and i solder all connections and use liquid tape to cover all splices so that tape doesnt just fall off eventually


are you using a car battery charger ? 

them fans are no where NEAR 1 amp , let alone 2.



soil


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## wyteboi (Sep 8, 2011)

jaydiesle said:


> wass up bricktown73 nice thread mate what would i have to do and get to install a CAP 8 Light Master Lighting Controller w/Timer MLC 8XT i got a 120v would like to switch to 240v what materials would i need for all thies btw im just getting the stuff ima have my uncle install everything thanx mate +rep


are you gonna be using 8 lights ? 
you can use it at 120v or 240v.



soil


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## Marlboro47 (Sep 21, 2011)

Can anyone explain to me what sort of electrical system I need to get if I don't want a fuse box? I heard there are more advance ones out there, can someone give me more info?


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## dnoob (Sep 21, 2011)

I grow in a backyard shed and the amperage available there is limited to about 30 amps which i am already using. The next closest spot i can tap is about 35 feet away. Would it be safe (or not) to run an extension cord ? and if it was safe what size/type would the cord have to be ? also would i need a special surge protector or something else ?
This would get me an extra 15 amps.
Thank you for your help


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## Bucket head (Sep 22, 2011)

I have a question... i have a 220v 600w future bright ballast and no place to plug in. I have found these converter things online that claim you can plug up to a 120v outlet thus powering a 240v device. Is this real and possible/safe??? I ask cause i have this ballast and cant plug up cause im limited in my space to 120v outlets only. Actually, i have one 240v in the room for an ac unit, however it does not work. Im not sure if its the wiring or what? I really am trying to avoid buy another ballast and i would like to 240v at least for this light if possible. any help here would be appreciated.


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## wyteboi (Sep 22, 2011)

Marlboro47 said:


> Can anyone explain to me what sort of electrical system I need to get if I don't want a fuse box? I heard there are more advance ones out there, can someone give me more info?


i think you want a breaker box (or electrical panel) ?

are you replacing an old fuse box?




soil


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## wyteboi (Sep 22, 2011)

dnoob said:


> I grow in a backyard shed and the amperage available there is limited to about 30 amps which i am already using. The next closest spot i can tap is about 35 feet away. Would it be safe (or not) to run an extension cord ? and if it was safe what size/type would the cord have to be ? also would i need a special surge protector or something else ?
> This would get me an extra 15 amps.
> Thank you for your help



an extension cord is fine just make sure it is at least 14 gauge wire.




soil


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## wyteboi (Sep 22, 2011)

Bucket head said:


> I have found these converter things online that claim you can plug up to a 120v outlet thus powering a 240v device. Is this real and possible/safe???


i would like to see one ..... never heard of such thang. 



Bucket head said:


> I ask cause i have this ballast and cant plug up cause im limited in my space to 120v outlets only.


you should be able to convert the ballast over to 120 , that would be the easiest route to take....





soil


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## Marlboro47 (Sep 24, 2011)

wyteboi said:


> i think you want a breaker box (or electrical panel) ?
> 
> are you replacing an old fuse box?
> 
> ...


 
I want to know the cons about them then I will be calling an electrician because I can't risk burning my house down


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## Bucket head (Sep 24, 2011)

wyteboi said:


> i would like to see one ..... never heard of such thang.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## withoutAchance (Sep 24, 2011)

Bucket head said:


> wyteboi said:
> 
> 
> > i would like to see one ..... never heard of such thang.
> ...


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## Wolfhound (Sep 24, 2011)

Look at the wiring diagram of your ballast & tap the 120 line instead of 220 side, eh ? Fairly straight forward. Just make sure you know what you are doing or do not do it, don't short yourself to ground . . .


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## oakley1984 (Sep 24, 2011)

dont listen to these people because i Highly doubt any of them took even 1/2 a second to google your ballast....

http://commerce.idmi.net/ecommerce/catalog_detail.asp?CID=156&CI=1844&PI=17052

if that is your ballast, you dont have to do anything except plug it into the 120v plug, DONT OPEN IT !


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## Bucket head (Sep 24, 2011)

oakley1984 said:


> dont listen to these people because i Highly doubt any of them took even 1/2 a second to google your ballast....
> 
> http://commerce.idmi.net/ecommerce/catalog_detail.asp?CID=156&CI=1844&PI=17052
> 
> if that is your ballast, you don't have to do anything except plug it into the 120v plug, DONT OPEN IT !



unfortunately, this is not my ballast! apparently, this is a newer design. Mine is from a few years back, but i do know that its of high quality. It only accepts a 220/240 cord and that's it! Im trying to find either a converter box for the plug, which i will post a link for that if i can find one. Or maybe I will search for an extension cord for it, but all the cords i see are pretty short...


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## oakley1984 (Sep 24, 2011)

Bucket head said:


> unfortunately, this is not my ballast! apparently, this is a newer design. Mine is from a few years back, but i do know that its of high quality. It only accepts a 220/240 cord and that's it! Im trying to find either a converter box for the plug, which i will post a link for that if i can find one. Or maybe I will search for an extension cord for it, but all the cords i see are pretty short...



okay so the next logical step would be take a picture of your ballast for the rest of us to see, the previous answers of opening the ballast and using the 120v tap inside the ballast is a plausible answer at this point if its a magnetic ballast, what needs to be determined if its a multitap ballast or a single tap!


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## Wolfhound (Sep 24, 2011)

oakley, I love a good laugh once in a while too . . .
marlboro, BE very careful taking electrical advice from anyone if you don't know what you are doing . . .


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## oakley1984 (Sep 24, 2011)

Wolfhound said:


> oakley, I love a good laugh once in a while too . . .
> marlboro, BE very careful taking electrical advice from anyone if you don't know what you are doing . . .


hehe gotta love how people just instantly jump to, oh just open it up and rewire it! for someone whos unsure of what they are doing, Bad advice hehe

at least with a posted picture can analyze more closely what hes dealing with, and if possible proceed with rewiring it Safely.


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## Bucket head (Sep 24, 2011)

i will snap a pic or two. il post 'em up asap...


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## chasmtz (Sep 25, 2011)

pretty simple question here. I want to add a sub panel for my room. I am wanting to have 4, 20amp circuits. I also want room to add another 20 if not a 30amp in the future, all on this sub panel. My service is 100 amps. Can I run a 50 amp sup panel to power 4 x 20amp and 1 x 30amp breakers? If so, What gauge wire would I use to run for the 50 amp sub panel if I want to put the sub right next to the main. The run of large wire wire be less than 10 feet, around 5. Happy to give more info if needed. thanks in advance


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## dickkhead (Sep 27, 2011)

I have natural gas at my house could i use this to run my grow set up 3 tents 4x4x6.5 with a total of 3000 watts of leds and aero pumps and fans within them.


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## smokebros (Sep 27, 2011)

General Question. How many watts can I run in my house before I blow something? Lets say in a room... I'm sure I will need to provide you details just lemme know.


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## wyteboi (Sep 28, 2011)

Marlboro47 said:


> I want to know the cons about them then I will be calling an electrician because I can't risk burning my house down


No cons with a new breaker panel except the electricians fee!




soil


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 28, 2011)

dickkhead said:


> I have natural gas at my house could i use this to run my grow set up 3 tents 4x4x6.5 with a total of 3000 watts of leds and aero pumps and fans within them.


How? natural gas can run a generator to produce the electricity (but less efficiently. Any time you change energy mediums, you have a loss)
Can us it for a heater if the room is too cold (but that's a rarity)


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## oakley1984 (Sep 28, 2011)

BigBudBalls said:


> How? natural gas can run a generator to produce the electricity (but less efficiently. Any time you change energy mediums, you have a loss)
> Can us it for a heater if the room is too cold (but that's a rarity)


haha my rooms too cold, and at only 60sq ft with 3000w of light running and a 1500w baseboard, living in the north sucks!


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## wyteboi (Sep 28, 2011)

oakley1984 said:


> dont listen to these people because i Highly doubt any of them took even 1/2 a second to google your ballast...


apparently that 1/2 second wasnt quite enough......



This thread is a very helpful and useful. You and me both know why these folks prefer to do their own work, so our job is to help them do so without blowin their selves up.

There is absolutely no reason at all for you to come here and disrespect all the folks willing to give out info for free to hundreds of people. 

I _thought_ i might have missed a link to a ballast but it looks like you were googling things that didnt exist.

If you would like to sit and help all these folks then subscribe to the thread an pitch in ..... if not , dont say nothing at all. 




soil


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## oakley1984 (Sep 28, 2011)

wyteboi said:


> apparently that 1/2 second wasnt quite enough......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



really, so your going to tell me that a prior post of telling the person to open up his ballast and just rewire it to the 120v tap is sound advice? how does the person know if its a single or multi tap ballast?

this is NOT sound electrical practice, despite my attitude.... my point remains correct.


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## wyteboi (Sep 28, 2011)

chasmtz said:


> pretty simple question here. I want to add a sub panel for my room. I am wanting to have 4, 20amp circuits. I also want room to add another 20 if not a 30amp in the future, all on this sub panel. My service is 100 amps. Can I run a 50 amp sup panel to power 4 x 20amp and 1 x 30amp breakers? If so, What gauge wire would I use to run for the 50 amp sub panel if I want to put the sub right next to the main. The run of large wire wire be less than 10 feet, around 5. Happy to give more info if needed. thanks in advance


well 4 20's and 1 30 = 110 amps , so you can not run a 50 amp sub to get what you want. You would have to upgrade your "main" service to at least 200amps.
are you really gonna use the full 110 amps? 





soil


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## oakley1984 (Sep 28, 2011)

wyteboi said:


> well 4 20's and 1 30 = 110 amps , so you can not run a 50 amp sub to get what you want. You would have to upgrade your "main" service to at least 200amps.
> are you really gonna use the full 110 amps?
> 
> 
> ...


technically, Yes. 
4x20a 120v circuts is a 40a 240v load, so yes... 4x20a circuts is most definitely possible off a 50a sub panel, however the 30a plug would be pushing that over the edge.


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## wyteboi (Sep 28, 2011)

wyteboi said:


> you should be able to convert the ballast over to 120 , that would be the easiest route to take....


This was my response ..... nice an simple. 

i didnt tall no one to open anything up. 

Obviously, IF that person needs help then they will ask the next question to get the process started , but most folks do not even come back after the first post , that is the reason my answer was so simple. 

Look these folks (the ones who truly need us) appreciate the hell outta people like you that are willing to help, but things like "dont listen to them" just causes way more confusion an upsets the ones who try to help. 

We have some really good electricians on this thread.

here , hit this  ............now lets move on.






soil


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## oakley1984 (Sep 28, 2011)

wyteboi said:


> This was my response ..... nice an simple.
> 
> i didnt tall no one to open anything up.
> 
> ...


 *laughs*
it wasnt your post i was referring to; but way to call me out n make me look like a jackass >.>


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## stumps (Sep 28, 2011)

How many 600w lights can you run on a 30 amp breaker? I figured out 4 with amps to spare. oh 120v


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## wyteboi (Sep 28, 2011)

smokebros said:


> General Question. How many watts can I run in my house before I blow something? Lets say in a room... I'm sure I will need to provide you details just lemme know.


Yea we will need a lot more details. 

How many amps is your main breaker in the panel ?
How many devices are on the same circuit you want to use?
How many watts do you need?
A general residential circuit is 15 or 20 amps , but you have to *know* for sure before you start makin changes. 




soil


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## wyteboi (Sep 28, 2011)

stumps said:


> How many 600w lights can you run on a 30 amp breaker? I figured out 4 with amps to spare. oh 120v


5 with 5 amps to spare. Try not to ever run more then 80% of the breaker capacity. (24 amps on a 30 so yea 4 would be better but 5 would not hurt anything.)



soil


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## woodsmaneh! (Sep 28, 2011)

I have some 110 1000w ballast and was told you can switch them to 220 by changing a wire inside, do you know anything about this?

Thanks


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## wyteboi (Sep 28, 2011)

woodsmaneh! said:


> I have some 110 1000w ballast and was told you can switch them to 220 by changing a wire inside, do you know anything about this?
> 
> Thanks


Some ballast are multi-tap and some can not be changed. If its a multitap then it can be wired to 240 instead of 120 , but you can not get a true 240 out of a regular single phase panel. (home panel)

Plus you can't gain anything by going to 220 (except the amount of lights per wire) but it wont help the bill any. 

If you could post a pic or write down the specs on the ballast then we can help you switch to 220 if you want to.






soil


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## woodsmaneh! (Sep 28, 2011)

I'll post some pics, I want to go 220 as it is easier to run 4 1000w and a chiller and 2 pumps off a 50A 220 than 5 110 boxes. Make my own 50a panels with HD timer. The brown box on the bottom is 110, I usualy have a spring loaded cover for the 110 and it is clearly marked. For my own use only as I am not qualified to do work for others.


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## stumps (Sep 28, 2011)

The dude had a 100amp service to a shop. was guessing 3 phase. also do the ballast use more amps when starting up? I didn't know thats why I went with 4.


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## wyteboi (Sep 28, 2011)

I would need to see the ballast you want to convert. Some ballast can not be converted , some multitaps can not be ran off a home panel. (single phase) And then i think some of the newer ballasts can be run off a single phase service. 

If you do not have a pic , i need some specs. the wires inside the ballast case should be marked (110, 220, 277, ect..) If so we can go from there.





soil


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## wyteboi (Sep 28, 2011)

stumps said:


> The dude had a 100amp service to a shop. was guessing 3 phase. also do the ballast use more amps when starting up? I didn't know thats why I went with 4.


The magnetic ballast pull a lil more on startup but 4 would be fine. I am pretty sure none of the digital ballast use extra amps on startup.




soil


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## NWMED (Oct 3, 2011)

What is the best way to wire these? I tried wiring a standard plug and nothing happened. They have a diagram (see pics) its all Greek to me.


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## Wolfhound (Oct 4, 2011)

well as I see it you would be a total fool to open up any electrical equipment without knowing what you are doing . . . *Good advice* . . . know what you are doing !


----------



## Xoshua (Oct 4, 2011)

Hey guys! So I've almost completed my cab. It's a side table. 
Inside cab: Cyclone Booster fan PLUS, computer fan used for outtake (12v cell phone charger connected black and black and red and white with electrical tape followed by those orange twisters used for wires. Have 12 cfl lights but only using 6 at a time. 
Medium duty extension cord > 2 power bars with on/off button > 3 on each power bar (6 total) cheap plug in socket adapter > cfl lights.
Will the above cause a fire? I'm worried about fire. I secured the lines, ductaped everything into place, used window reflecting shiny stuff with aluminum tape. Im just wondering if I'll be fine with my setup? I thought I bought a timer but I cannot find it.
Thank you for the answers. By the way, my total CFL usage is 150 W (Not equivilent, actual light Watts).
ADDED: I covered the cords with alum tape and that car shiny cover stuff. 

I got the idea to use a cell phone charger from many diff setups on the site. Used the foil tape to tape the sun reflectors to the cab.
For clarification, the cell phone charger is a blackberry: input 100-240v, 50-60 hz, 11-17va 0.2a, output 5v=0 75a (0.75a)
And the fan is: dc brushless, dc= 12v, 0.25a.
Power cords are from canadian tired, 6 prong, on off switch and something else like a breaker?
Plugs for light are just your 4 dollar light socket to plug.


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## wyteboi (Oct 5, 2011)

NWMED said:


> What is the best way to wire these? I tried wiring a standard plug and nothing happened. They have a diagram (see pics) its all Greek to me.


Can you see all the wires or are they inside the case?

Show a pic of the wires and the components and i will help. If your scared to open the case then dont even bother. 

Its probably set up for 480v , so you would have to change the wiring inside to 120 ...... should be fairly simple , just get good wirenuts an not just tape.







soil


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## NWMED (Oct 5, 2011)

YA It's got all wires. I'll get some pics inside shortly. Thanks.


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## wyteboi (Oct 5, 2011)

Xoshua said:


> Medium duty extension cord > 2 power bars with on/off button > 3 on each power bar (6 total) cheap plug in socket adapter > cfl lights.Will the above cause a fire?


What size wire is in the extension cord ? (what gauge)
you aint usin much power so you'll proly be fine , but to be sure you will have to know ALL the devices on that circuit , not just the stuff in your cab.
(turn that breaker off an go make note of every single thing that dont work)



Xoshua said:


> ADDED: I covered the cords with alum tape and that car shiny cover stuff.


WHY ? 
that foil tape is conductive and would be my main concern.




soil


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## rbico (Oct 5, 2011)

I think this is one of the coolest things - that you have electricians offering advice to be safe. Thanks to you for helping.


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## smalltymer (Oct 7, 2011)

hey wyteboi. ive been wanting to add a sub panel for awhile now. been doing my homework on specs and codes of the box for a 50 amp subpanel. in my situtation my panel in the home is pretty full. its old and small. my question would be couldn't I just run a new subpanel from the meter on the side of the house instead of upgradeing my old panel and runinng the sub off it?


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## oakley1984 (Oct 7, 2011)

smalltymer said:


> hey wyteboi. ive been wanting to add a sub panel for awhile now. been doing my homework on specs and codes of the box for a 50 amp subpanel. in my situtation my panel in the home is pretty full. its old and small. my question would be couldn't I just run a new subpanel from the meter on the side of the house instead of upgradeing my old panel and runinng the sub off it?


yes thats possible, but no its not something you should do yourself...


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## samld1984 (Oct 7, 2011)

I read that some people run hid lamps on 2 hour cycles to half there power while maintaining 85% of yeild in some cases. would that work with mag ballasts as they have a power surge at startup, or that would negate the point of it? was thinking of using something like this for it http://www.efficientlight.co.uk/BVModules/ProductTemplates/BVC 2004 Layout/Product.aspx?productid=ce454385-83ce-4ff1-916d-ffd3523daaf0


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## lilganjaboy (Oct 9, 2011)

bricks, i got a 4350 joule surge protecter 3 55 watt cfls 2 small fans and 400 watt hid. Can you please tell me why one of my cfls wont turn on? Evrything else wrks fine and i tried diffrent surge protecters and evrything. wats wrong??


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## superfly101 (Oct 10, 2011)

I got 8 1000watt hps ballast and I want to know whats the best way to run these? I was thinking of getting a 50amp timer box(like the one in the pic). If I get this will I have to add a 50amp breaker to my main panel and wire a 220v plug? Do you guys have any better ideas? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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## ravendarkangelx (Oct 10, 2011)

what do i need to do/buy to get cfl lightbulbs to be able to plug into a normal electrical outlet (sry don't know the term :/) instead of a lightbulb socket


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## bimmerragtop (Oct 11, 2011)

Hi Bricktown73....i have a problem and i am stumped....i run 3 1000w hps in my flower room....i just moved to another home and i moved my wiring to the new home....i ran the wire from my breaker box in the grow room to a pool sub panel on a double 20 breaker....my grow room sub panel has 2 single 30 amp breakers....plugged in 2 of the lights and everything worked fine....when i turned on the 3rd light (a few days later), the light came on and ran for a little while, then shut down....and a little while later, the other two lights shut down....when i plug one in now, the bulb blinks and the ballast makes a ticking noise in time with the blinking....after it blinks a little while, it shuts down completely.....i have replaced all the breakers to no avail...all connections are tight....i cannot get even one light to come on through my grow room panel now....i can plug any of them in elsewhere and they work fine....what happened? and how can i fix it?.....i ran the wire to another sub panel, a 60 amp a/c disconnect (just to see if it would work coming out of there) but it does the same thing....any ideas?.....any advice is appreciated


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## wyteboi (Oct 15, 2011)

smalltymer said:


> hey wyteboi. ive been wanting to add a sub panel for awhile now. been doing my homework on specs and codes of the box for a 50 amp subpanel. in my situtation my panel in the home is pretty full. its old and small. my question would be couldn't I just run a new subpanel from the meter on the side of the house instead of upgradeing my old panel and runinng the sub off it?


No , you can not run anything extra off of the meter outside your house. It can be done but its waay against code, an can be very unsafe.

Its possible to run a sub off the old one but you would need the electrical specs off everything in the house including all the new stuff an how much juice you intend to use. 

how many amps is your current panel ? 
how much juice does/can your house use? (amps or watts)
how many watts/amps do you intend to add?





soil ~~~~


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## wyteboi (Oct 15, 2011)

samld1984 said:


> I read that some people run hid lamps on 2 hour cycles to half there power while maintaining 85% of yeild in some cases. would that work with mag ballasts as they have a power surge at startup, or that would negate the point of it? was thinking of using something like this for it http://www.efficientlight.co.uk/BVModules/ProductTemplates/BVC 2004 Layout/Product.aspx?productid=ce454385-83ce-4ff1-916d-ffd3523daaf0


My own personal opinion says this is a waste of time. i dont think it would get 85% at all. i would never try this without a direct associate telling me he's done did it.

Now on the money saving side of things , it would save half the bill on a digital ballast an very close to half on a magnetic ballast.






soil


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## wyteboi (Oct 15, 2011)

lilganjaboy said:


> bricks, i got a 4350 joule surge protecter 3 55 watt cfls 2 small fans and 400 watt hid. Can you please tell me why one of my cfls wont turn on? Evrything else wrks fine and i tried diffrent surge protecters and evrything. wats wrong??


The light bulb or ballast is bad. thats the only explanation.






soil


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## wyteboi (Oct 15, 2011)

superfly101 said:


> I got 8 1000watt hps ballast and I want to know whats the best way to run these? I was thinking of getting a 50amp timer box(like the one in the pic). If I get this will I have to add a 50amp breaker to my main panel and wire a 220v plug? Do you guys have any better ideas? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.


To do it with a 50 amp timer box then you would have to make sure all your ballast are setup for 220volt. an then yes you would need a 50a breaker in your existing box and a 220 plug to match the plug coming off the new box.

You could run them all separate if you want , as long as you have room in the old panel. there are multiple ways of running those. i would need to know more about your existing breaker box and your ballasts to generate my own opinion.





soil.....


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## wyteboi (Oct 15, 2011)

ravendarkangelx said:


> what do i need to do/buy to get cfl lightbulbs to be able to plug into a normal electrical outlet (sry don't know the term :/) instead of a lightbulb socket


something like this :









soil


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## wyteboi (Oct 15, 2011)

bimmerragtop said:


> Hi Bricktown73....i have a problem and i am stumped....i run 3 1000w hps in my flower room....i just moved to another home and i moved my wiring to the new home....i ran the wire from my breaker box in the grow room to a pool sub panel on a double 20 breaker....my grow room sub panel has 2 single 30 amp breakers....plugged in 2 of the lights and everything worked fine....when i turned on the 3rd light (a few days later), the light came on and ran for a little while, then shut down....and a little while later, the other two lights shut down....when i plug one in now, the bulb blinks and the ballast makes a ticking noise in time with the blinking....after it blinks a little while, it shuts down completely.....i have replaced all the breakers to no avail...all connections are tight....i cannot get even one light to come on through my grow room panel now....i can plug any of them in elsewhere and they work fine....what happened? and how can i fix it?.....i ran the wire to another sub panel, a 60 amp a/c disconnect (just to see if it would work coming out of there) but it does the same thing....any ideas?.....any advice is appreciated


well 2 30's defiantly wont work off a double 20 , but should have worked on the 60, so im not sure. 

you would have to explain how you got the 3 ballasts hooked up and how you got the two 30's hooked up , and how you got it run to the panel and i can help you out.

I am sorry , i just dont fully understand your post on how you got things. real easy fix , i just need more info....






soil


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## chopchop83 (Oct 23, 2011)

This is one big thread and Im sorry if it seems if Im lazy for not reading it all. Ive scanned some of it and read a few posts - Im in the right place I know.

I am going run a cable from my main fuse box to a new subpanel/breaker board in my room. Ive got the help/advice of an electricain but only over email, and exchanging photos/videos. So I'll be doing the actual work myself. It will be powering one room which is spilt into 2 rooms, each with 6 x 600w in each room. So 7200watts of lights plus all the other stuff that goes along with it. I am not stealing the electric, I will be paying for it. 
Im not the handymen of handymen but I don't mind tackling a task, especially with the help of professional advice. 

The part that scares the shit out of me is killing myself while working with electics. Specifically removing the main fuse, so that I can work on the fusebox. 

My question is about pulling the main fuse - is it a big deal for an non electrician to remove the fuse? Should I be as scared as I am? (yes I know Im not supposed to, and its illegal to do so, and its power companies property etc etc but its illegal to produce weed and no one is going to be coming in my apartment to view my fusebox unless the police break in)


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## StonedYa? (Oct 23, 2011)

* 

While my plant was sleeping during flowering week 6 my lights flashed on and off a few times what is going to be the consequences of this?​ 
*


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## chopchop83 (Oct 24, 2011)

http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=148505&start=0

i found the answer. not a good idea


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## lthopkins (Oct 24, 2011)

can anyone shed more info on my thread would be aprecited


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## PrincePurple (Oct 25, 2011)

Hey do u know if In a apartment building their is a energy meter that shows each apartments usage or is it a meter that just the whole buildings usage I dunt think they would be able to monitor each units usage because I would think their all wired together ?
Shed some light please an thanks


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## wyteboi (Oct 25, 2011)

chopchop83 said:


> My question is about pulling the main fuse - is it a big deal for an non electrician to remove the fuse? Should I be as scared as I am? (yes I know Im not supposed to, and its illegal to do so, and its power companies property etc etc but its illegal to produce weed and no one is going to be coming in my apartment to view my fusebox unless the police break in)


the main "fuse" is yours , not the electric company's. you can do whatever you want with it. now if your talking about the meter thats spinning outside .... yes thats the power co's. 

if its a fuse then just pull it out and the box will be dead EXCEPT the wires comin into the box from the meter ..... they will still be hot , unless you take the meter out. If its a breaker then just trip it an the same as above applies. 

main thing to worry about is moving shit around while everything in your house is on. go through an turn off/unplug everything first , then your a lot less susceptible to death. a lil shock never hurt nobody an it will teach you to be careful next time. 

just be extra careful an you will be fine. after flippin the main breaker off then nothing in the house will be hot , just the wires going into the breaker will be hot.

if you need more help , just ask..... your in the right place





soil


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## wyteboi (Oct 25, 2011)

StonedYa? said:


> *
> 
> While my plant was sleeping during flowering week 6 my lights flashed on and off a few times what is going to be the consequences of this?​
> *


nothing , as long as you fix the prob an dont let it continue to come on an off. 






soil


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## wyteboi (Oct 25, 2011)

chopchop83 said:


> http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=148505&start=0
> 
> i found the answer. not a good idea


that forum is full of power company guys that all say your gonna die ? who is that guy to say its not safe for an electrician either ? most guys at the power co are WAAAAY less informed the a real electrician. 
i am not 100% on what your trying to do here , but if you want to pull out the outside meter to work on your inside wiring then call them an tell them an it might not charge a dime........

IF you dont want the power co anywhere around this , then turn off the main breaker inside the house then go cut their tag off an pull the meter right on out. 
the only thing you got to worry about is the meter falling apart (one in a million chance) other then that there is no power on in the house so its just like dealing with any other line ... there is 2- 110v lines an one neutral. (same as inside) ...... after your done put the meter back in an stick their tag back on the best you can , an eventually if/when the power co sees the cut tag , they might charge you a tampering fee or even a deposit. (like they did me)
just pay it an go on. 
i dont condone in stealing so just dont come out an say it an i will help you till the end !






soil


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## wyteboi (Oct 25, 2011)

lthopkins said:


> can anyone shed more info on my thread would be aprecited


wheres your thread ???




soil ?


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## wyteboi (Oct 25, 2011)

PrincePurple said:


> Hey do u know if In a apartment building their is a energy meter that shows each apartments usage or is it a meter that just the whole buildings usage I dunt think they would be able to monitor each units usage because I would think their all wired together ?
> Shed some light please an thanks


No they are _usually _not run together unless its an old home someone just threw together to make a duplex. You should have your own meter to record YOUR power.






soil


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## chopchop83 (Oct 26, 2011)

Hey Wyteboi thanks for the reply. 
Im in an apartment so everything like the meter and the main fuse (the fuse before the meter and my fuse box) is inside my apartment. 1st Pic attached, pipe on left of gas meter is my power coming in. Im assuming in that box on top of pipe is the main fuse. Dont know what other two boxes below meter are, one on right has a switch of some sort. Then above that is my meter. Above the meter in the pic is my fuse box/consumer unit. It has 6 x 16A breakers. 

Ive grown before in this apartment but had some power problems. Im going to do it properly this time. Once Im at at the apartment I will make a electrical map of what is on each fuse, then I plan to run a cable from my fusebox/consumer (or from after meter and before unit fusebox/consumer unit) to my room, which will power a relay board. I only have a washing machine and fridge/freezer that is sucking much power. No clothers dryer. Heating is buildings responsiblity, and my water heater is gas. Oven and hob is gas. 

This job I guess is like installing a subpanel? Power will be paid for. I thought I had to switch off the power before my fuse box/consumer unit to do this job (doesnt look like a have a main breaker, only 6 x16amp. And the only way to cut the power is to pull the main fuse (box at top on that pipe on left of photo). No one comes to look at the meter as I control access. I would like to do this so that if I need to I could remove everything and no tabs on meters are broken and everything looks normal.

My question would be, based on setting up 2 rooms each running 6x600watt (one room on, one off, except a few days of overlap when a room has a few days of 18 hour light, I dont veg for long) each room has its own in and out extractors, also inline fans connect rooms to transfer Co2 produced from sleeping plants into room with lights on, and seeing the pics above how would you tackle it?


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## mrmadcow (Oct 26, 2011)

PrincePurple said:


> Hey do u know if In a apartment building their is a energy meter that shows each apartments usage or is it a meter that just the whole buildings usage I dunt think they would be able to monitor each units usage because I would think their all wired together ?
> Shed some light please an thanks


do you get a bill from the electric company? if so, then you have your own meter. if electric is included in rent, do you have your own breaker box or is the entire building covered by 1 or 2 breaker boxes? if so, you are right in ASSUMING that the apartments are all wired together.


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## mrmadcow (Oct 26, 2011)

chopchop83 said:


> My question would be, based on setting up 2 rooms each running 6x600watt (one room on, one off, except a few days of overlap when a room has a few days of 18 hour light, I dont veg for long) each room has its own in and out extractors, also inline fans connect rooms to transfer Co2 produced from sleeping plants into room with lights on, and seeing the pics above how would you tackle it?


 to clarify, are you in N.America or Europe? it matters.Different electric systems, different codes and different ways of doing things.


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## chopchop83 (Oct 26, 2011)

Europe, the netherlands


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## wyteboi (Oct 27, 2011)

chopchop83 said:


> Europe, the netherlands


well all your guys stuff is different then n. america , so nothing looks familiar , but we can probably get through this. no big deal. amps are amps an volts are volts 

so will your ballasts be runnin at 220 volts ?

a couple more questions bout your breaker box, meter ect. : (see pic)



from what i can tell , .....so far
you will need to replace one of them 16a breakers with a bigger one for a "sub panel" the size will depend on the voltage of the ballasts ect... . 3600 watts is about 16 amps at 220 , but about 30 amps at 120v . so theres a big difference. 


also what are you gonna use to run everything ? (separate plugs, timers , ect or a "master timer" , control box .....?)






sorry for my lack of knowledge on europian lectric devices 






soil


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## IAm5toned (Oct 27, 2011)

you need to remember that european voltage is 240v, 50hz, _per phase._ they dont use a neutral like we do.. there neutral is actually what we would call phase b.....


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## chopchop83 (Oct 27, 2011)

Its 230V in the Netherlands. 

From your pic I think the main line is the part you do.
I also dont know what the ? is, guess I'll find out when I open it 
The part you think is the main switch, I think it could be too, but it looks like it is before the meter (meter is the top part of that picture, I blurred out the wheel as I dont want to put serial numbers out on the internet) which is strange no?. It may have something to do with an old electric heater that was in bathroom. I think that yellow pipe leads there, which would make sense. 
Sitting above the meter at the top of that pic (on the other photo) is my fusebox. 
Im not arriving in the country for another month and I also dont have access to my power board plans till then. What I'll do once I arrive I can take better photos and open things up then I'll update this thread. Thanks for your help!!


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## wyteboi (Oct 27, 2011)

IAm5toned said:


> you need to remember that european voltage is 240v, 50hz, _per phase._ they dont use a neutral like we do.. there neutral is actually what we would call phase b.....


thanks for the heads up 5toned ! 




soil


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## BigBudGrower (Oct 28, 2011)

Hey everyone Ive got a bad problem I need help with. I have an Agro Star 1000w Magnetic Ballast, and a MH conversion bulb, and HPS conversion bulb that i got from HTGSUPPLY.COM. THe ballast just plugs into a regular socket. Well, I went to switch from Veg to Flower, I switched out the MH conversion bulb that was working perfectly, and put in the HPS bulb. When I plugged in the ballast, a Loud buzzing noise was coming from the ballast; Definantly not the normal humming noise a magnetic ballast. Well the light flickered on for a few seconds, but then went dead except for a little blue glowing from the inner tube. I unplugged the ballast, and put the MH conversion bulb back in. The MH conversion bulb turned on but was only working at like 70% light output than it used too. It eventually went dead in about an hour. Well, I called HTG and them what was happening. They said it was probably a bad ignitor and capacitor. They offered to send me the parts and I could fix it, or I could send it in, and they would fix it. Well, I didn't want to wait a couple of weeks. When I got the parts in, I changed out the capacitor, and decided to test it to see if it was just the capacitor. I put in the MH conversion bulb, and plugged in the balllast. THe lamp started right up and was working 100% like it used to in the beginning. Well I though it was fixed. I plugged in the HPS bulb and plugged in the ballast. Nothing except the slight blue glow from the inside. Well this bulb was brand new, I only tested it whenever I got it in the mail a year ago. I figured it had to be the ignitor that was bad also. I changed out the ignitor, and plugged in the ballast. Still nothing from the hps bulb, but now no blue glow form the inner tube. I decided to try the MH bulb again and it flickered on, but now only that inner tube was buring and it looked like one of those electrical balls with just one little lightning bolt going through the inner tube of the mh bulb. This is where im stumped. I dont know what is wrong with it. If anyone knows what it could be please let me know. THAnks


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## BigBudGrower (Oct 28, 2011)

I forgot one main detail. The mh bulb isnt working anymore, and yhe inner tube is now blackened on the ends.


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## eDude (Oct 28, 2011)

BigBudGrower said:


> Hey everyone Ive got a bad problem I need help with. I have an Agro Star 1000w Magnetic Ballast, and a MH *conversion *bulb, and HPS *conversion *bulb that i got from HTGSUPPLY.COM. THe ballast just plugs into a regular socket. Well, I went to switch from Veg to Flower, I switched out the MH conversion bulb that was working perfectly, and put in the HPS bulb. When I plugged in the ballast, a Loud buzzing noise was coming from the ballast; Definantly not the normal humming noise a magnetic ballast.


One issues I might be seeing is that you have a 1000w ballast that I assume is a HPS and you have conversion bulbs of both.. That might be a problem.. If it's a HPS ballast then an HPS conversion bulb is not going to work. It's meant to covert a MH ballast to a HPS. You might need a regular HPS bulb and not a conversion HPS bulb. 



BigBudGrower said:


> Well the light flickered on for a few seconds, but then went dead except for a little blue glowing from the inner tube. I unplugged the ballast, and put the MH conversion bulb back in. The MH conversion bulb turned on but was only working at like 70% light output than it used too. It eventually went dead in about an hour. Well, I called HTG and them what was happening. They said it was probably a bad ignitor and capacitor.


Ok, only HPS are the only ballast that have Cap's and igniters.. but you should be aware of something called warm or hot starts.. you can't just turn off a ballast then turn it back on.. it will do what you described. You need to let it cool down for about 15 min then turn it on. Also, MH bulbs need to warm up so when you first turn them on they will be much dimmer then what they will be once they warm up and that might take 10 min or so too. 



BigBudGrower said:


> They offered to send me the parts and I could fix it, or I could send it in, and they would fix it. Well, I didn't want to wait a couple of weeks. When I got the parts in, I changed out the capacitor, and decided to test it to see if it was just the capacitor. I put in the MH conversion bulb, and plugged in the balllast. THe lamp started right up and was working 100% like it used to in the beginning. Well I though it was fixed. I plugged in the HPS bulb and plugged in the ballast. Nothing except the slight blue glow from the inside. Well this bulb was brand new, I only tested it whenever I got it in the mail a year ago. I figured it had to be the ignitor that was bad also. I changed out the ignitor, and plugged in the ballast. Still nothing from the hps bulb, but now no blue glow form the inner tube. I decided to try the MH bulb again and it flickered on, but now only that inner tube was buring and it looked like one of those electrical balls with just one little lightning bolt going through the inner tube of the mh bulb. This is where im stumped. I dont know what is wrong with it. If anyone knows what it could be please let me know. THAnks


Check out the HPS bulb if it's a conversion then that's your problem, not your ballast.

Also, I don't know, why the hell would they sent you parts to fix your ballast yourself. They should have sent you a new ballast and taken that one back if that was the case.

If your cap is bad and its the metal kind it will look bloated and might leak oil. If it's plastic it will look distorted and or bloated and may have dark gray crap that leaked out then cooled to a solid. If you don't see some distortion or leaking it you still might have a good cap. 

Igniters you just have to switch out with a know'n good one. 

Good luck, check that out and I'll laugh if they sent you the wrong bulb.. Not at you but at them.. that would be really dumb of them and they would have wasted a lot of your time. 

L


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## BigBudGrower (Oct 29, 2011)

Thanks man. Sorry i shouldve clarified. The mh bulb is a conversion bulb and the hps is a regular hps bulb(well if they had the right bulb in the right box). The capacitor did look a little deformed, kind like somebody smooshed it a bit. I know what your talking about with the cool down, but i did try waiting awhile between testing it to see if it wouldturn on. It just seems nothing is working on it anymore. Neither bulb will even try to "ignite" anymore


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## eDude (Oct 29, 2011)

Sounds stupid but double, treble, check everything. All plugs are all the way in, the ballast isn't set to run at 240V when it should be at 120V. Bulb is all they way in the socket.

If you had both caps (new and old) and you can tell that one is much different, then you might have had a bad cap. So, that's one thing. The igniter, I've done a million of those.. are you sure you didn't put the bad one back in the ballast.. it happens.. I take mine out and tie the wires into a knot so I don't get them mixed up.. Also, it might be too late but are you sure you wired the igniter in correctly. There are three connections that have to be correct and one is to two wires if I remember correctly. When I do igniter's, I do one wire at a time. Disconnect from x1 then connect to x1 on the good one. Then move on to the next. If you take them all off at once you run the risk of mixing them up cause sometimes they are not all labeled.. It's a mess but if you take a good hard look at it and I'll see if I can't find you a diagram you might be able to find something.. 

Also, it doesn't stink does it? If the ballast smells really really bad then it's done.. that's what happens when the main coil fries. Check that out and I'll look for a diagram for you.


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## wyteboi (Oct 29, 2011)

your ballast is bad , bigbud. 

did you have the MH runnin in it for a long time with no probs ?

does the ballast have a switch to go from MH to HPS ? if so make sure its set to hps. with a HPS ballast you dont need no conversions. a regular MH will fire an run just fine. 

even if you did put a conversion hps in there , that wouldnt hurt your shit, and the MH would still work fine. 

send it back to them .... the whole thang.






thanks edude for helpin !







soil


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## eDude (Oct 30, 2011)

No, worries, I think he has a regular HPS ballast and the MH was a conversion bulb and the HPS is a standard HPS. It's always confusing with convertible ballast and convertible bulbs.. 

Just so I'm clear with everyone, I'm not an electrician but I do have a degree in electronics and have worked with core-n-coil ballast for years.  so, let me know if I get something wrong. 

I agree, you should talk to them again. You didn't sign up for this bull crap, and like I said, it was a little much of them to ask you to fix your ballast. I looked at there site. Not a bad company, I guess, but they look like they like to keep customers happy. At least that's what they say in the 'feedback' section. 

You've gone above and beyond to try to make this work. They need to step up.


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## GunRunner (Oct 31, 2011)

I have a question, I don't know if it has been asked already but the search function didn't yield much, so here it goes:

I get a lot of unscheduled power outages (that sometimes last for a few hours) where I live and I need to find a way to compensate for that.
One idea I have is using a UPS-like system with a car battery.

Can I run 3 x 23W CFLs along with 2 PC case fans and a small aquarium air pump on a car battery?
What are the things I need to know/take into consideration?
How to get all my equipment to switch to backup power automatically once the grid goes down?
Also is there a way to recharge the car battery off the main grid when power is back on? 
How long can I expect the battery to power up the equipment before it needs to be recharged?

Many thanks


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## wyteboi (Oct 31, 2011)

GunRunner said:


> I have a question, I don't know if it has been asked already but the search function didn't yield much, so here it goes:
> 
> I get a lot of unscheduled power outages (that sometimes last for a few hours) where I live and I need to find a way to compensate for that.
> One idea I have is using a UPS-like system with a car battery.
> ...


you would need to google homemade battery back up , an you'll find what your lookin for. you dont have many watts , so this is very doable an yes you could recharge your battery when your grid is back up.







soil


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## cheeze me (Oct 31, 2011)

GunRunner said:


> I have a question, I don't know if it has been asked already but the search function didn't yield much, so here it goes:
> 
> I get a lot of unscheduled power outages (that sometimes last for a few hours) where I live and I need to find a way to compensate for that.
> One idea I have is using a UPS-like system with a car battery.
> ...



Hi yes that will be fine no problem, last run I did we had 6 hours of power outages daily and my 1000w ups system did the trick very nicely, powered around 200-250watts of cfl's and a fan for an hour to two hours at a time.

Pm me if you need specific information.

This brings me to a question of my own, what do I need to do to get an hps to work with a ups system? just buy a beefy 2kv ups? Or is there something special I need to buy/do?


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## BigBudGrower (Oct 31, 2011)

Thanks for all your help, Im sending the ballast back. I would have to say that htgsupply.com is really really good about keeping customers happy. They're gonna send me a new one as long as i give them a $50 deposit until i send back the old one. I too think the whole ballast is just shot. Hey i got one more question for ya'll. What does it mean when the arc tube in my MH conversion bulb turns black around the ends? Like i said earlier, it started turning black after i replace the ignitor and capacitor, but then the whole system shutoff again.


wyteboi said:


> your ballast is bad , bigbud.
> 
> did you have the MH runnin in it for a long time with no probs ?
> 
> ...


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## GunRunner (Nov 1, 2011)

Thanks for the help fellas 

All in all my system will be using less than 100 watts and wont need to run for more than 2 hours at a time. And then the battery will have about 12 hours to recharge on the grid again.

So what parts am I looking at here? 

I see I need an inverter to convert AC to DC and a Battery charger, but I am clueless as to what ratings to look for, so if anyone can shed some light on what is a good setup for 100 watts for two hours etc, I would be very grateful


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## wyteboi (Nov 1, 2011)

cheeze me said:


> This brings me to a question of my own, what do I need to do to get an hps to work with a ups system? just buy a beefy 2kv ups? Or is there something special I need to buy/do?


nothin special , just a "beefy ups" , thats all , one that can run more then 1000 watts.







soil


----------



## wyteboi (Nov 1, 2011)

BigBudGrower said:


> Hey i got one more question for ya'll. What does it mean when the arc tube in my MH conversion bulb turns black around the ends? Like i said earlier, it started turning black after i replace the ignitor and capacitor, but then the whole system shutoff again.


they all start doing that after awhile, its not a big deal *except* the fact that yours is still new an you think the ballast is what caused it. if it dont seem right then see if they will send you another bulb too.







soil


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## basehaze1 (Nov 1, 2011)

Hi,

Moving my 1 room grow op to new house I bought. Dedicating 2 rooms in basement at 200 (sq feet) each. I have my 110 pretty much set but moving into the 220 area I am trying to take it slow. I'm running 4 - 1000 watt ballasts. (2 are digital and 2 are magnetic)

I  constructed the rooms in a way to where I will have all of my ballasts outside of the grow areas in there own closet. Closet is large and vented with 2 -squirrel fans to assist cooling. My basement is 1450 (sq feet) My breaker panel has a 2pull 30 amp and a 2-pull 40 amp from a preexisting range and dryer that were electric. I have removed the old wire from both breakers. I purchased 100 feet of 10-3 orange wire and several 220 single outlets with hardware mounting (outlets are 15 amp) From the breaker box to the closet for ballasts would need to run 56 feet of the 10-3 wire.

My questions: Which breaker should I run this on? Was also told maybe to put a 2pull 20 amp breaker in place. The outlets I have chosen at 15 amp are they ok or need changed to match whatever breaker I use. Any advise here is welcome and thanks in advance!

On the side here for readers. When it comes to ducting air. Has anyone ever tried to assist heating of the home from the heat of the lights? My ducting runs both the heat and cold air in very good areas above my rooms. I also have 4 very large filters. Think its possible to duct the heat to the existing ducts and push it thru the house? 

Regards,


----------



## mrmadcow (Nov 2, 2011)

GunRunner said:


> Thanks for the help fellas
> 
> All in all my system will be using less than 100 watts and wont need to run for more than 2 hours at a time. And then the battery will have about 12 hours to recharge on the grid again.
> 
> So what parts am I looking at here?


why not just buy a pc UPS? something like this
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/APC+-+550VA+Battery+Back-Up+System+-+Black/9307788.p?id=1218081368684&skuId=9307788&st=ups&cp=1&lp=3
most ups use a 12 volt battery so you could swap it out w/ a car battery for longer run time but if the car battery is fully discharged,it could burn out the UPS trying to rechage it. use a car charger to make sure it is fully charged first.


----------



## mike91sr (Nov 3, 2011)

Looking at running 3000w on a single 15a circuit, , trying to see if I can convert to 220v to allow this or if I have to add a circuit?


----------



## 711grower (Nov 4, 2011)

i have a simple question and i apologize if this has already been discussed. i have a single 15 amp dedicated wall plug in my living room. would it be ok to run a heavy duty extention cord through the ceilng to the attic then down into my grow room to run a few accessories. thanks


----------



## wyteboi (Nov 5, 2011)

basehaze1 said:


> Hi,My questions: Which breaker should I run this on? Was also told maybe to put a 2pull 20 amp breaker in place. The outlets I have chosen at 15 amp are they ok or need changed to match whatever breaker I use. Any advise here is welcome and thanks in advance!
> 
> On the side here for readers. When it comes to ducting air. Has anyone ever tried to assist heating of the home from the heat of the lights? My ducting runs both the heat and cold air in very good areas above my rooms. I also have 4 very large filters. Think its possible to duct the heat to the existing ducts and push it thru the house?
> 
> Regards,


if you went by code an safety , you would need the breaker to not be bigger then the outlets.

are all your ballast wired for 220v ?

what all will be runnin off the 10/3 ?

i would say just use a double pole 20 for the box but you will be usin more then 15 amps on that wire , so your gonna need to use the existing 30 ...... an then maybe use a separate single 15 for each light or something like that. (off the 10/3 (30amp)


As far as using your lights for house heat , yes i currently do that right now. that probably = 20% or more of my house heat. 

i just run the clean hot air right into the basement an it rises. it also helps me to *know* when my carbon needs replaced.

if you actually took the time to put a couple vents in the floor it would work even better.



soil


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## wyteboi (Nov 5, 2011)

mike91sr said:


> Looking at running 3000w on a single 15a circuit, , trying to see if I can convert to 220v to allow this or if I have to add a circuit?


even if you could the circuit would be completely maxed out. 

if your ballast have the adapter inside to switch to 220 with just a simple cord then yes you can run them at 220, but if they are regular multi-tap ballast then i have found no way possible to get 220 out of a single phase panel.
(the ballast needs a 220 leg an a neutral an there is no such thing as a 220 leg in single phase setup. (you have 2 - 110 legs , but not one single 220)







soil


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## wyteboi (Nov 5, 2011)

711grower said:


> i have a simple question and i apologize if this has already been discussed. i have a single 15 amp dedicated wall plug in my living room. would it be ok to run a heavy duty extention cord through the ceilng to the attic then down into my grow room to run a few accessories. thanks


yes as long as your cord is heavy duty an is rated for 15 amps or more. since it will be in the attic , then make sure there are no tears in the coating of the wire.






soil


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## 711grower (Nov 5, 2011)

thank you.


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## NFTfan (Nov 6, 2011)

Please remember that there will be UK growers on here asking about electrical issues.........I know the theory is the same, but there will be differences based on our 230v system.....I am also a sparky, nice thread though dude!


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## Rotweiller (Nov 6, 2011)

*Hello




I need to put a fan into my New grow tent and all i have at the moment is a "Domus model T1" Extractor fan (the type you have on a Bathroom/Kitchen Wall). http://uk.farnell.com/domus/t1/fan-w...0mm/dp/1265795 
What I&#8217;d like to know is can i wire it up to a Normal UK 230V 3 Pin Plug and use it as a normal fan? or is it the type of fan that Has to be wired up to a Light switch first? Here is a Photo of the Fan showing the connections available: Earth on the left, Neutral in the centre and SL on the right. ** If it can be used Should i just use 2 core cable? Live/Neutral into Live/Neutral connections? The "SL" connection is (I'm Guessing) Switch Live for the built in Timer and don't think i would be using it? Or should i Bridge the SL to Live and wire up Live and Neutral as normal? Please Help  My Temp's are very high 92f and need sorting out.
Many Thanks if you can help





Forgot to ask. What size Fuse should i use ? 3AMP, 5AMP or 13AMP? The fan is rated 50Hz 15Watt.
*


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## llamas (Nov 6, 2011)

I was wondering if you actual electricians could take a look at my shiz and see if there is anything I have done wrong.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/484092-2-x-20a-circuit-installation.html

Thanks!


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## handyman0331 (Nov 6, 2011)

hey i have 4 54w t5 bulbs and was wondering if it would be any cheaper and not to difficult to make my own fixture? Also i know that i would need ballast and sockets,is there any other components that would be necessary other than homemade fixture of course.thanks for any feedback.


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## wyteboi (Nov 7, 2011)

ill be right with all you guys ..... got a small job to go do....... gimme a few hours.




soil


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## wyteboi (Nov 7, 2011)

llamas said:


> I was wondering if you actual electricians could take a look at my shiz and see if there is anything I have done wrong.
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/484092-2-x-20a-circuit-installation.html
> 
> Thanks!


looks very good LL .... i looked at your pics.... it dont get any better. 







soil


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## llamas (Nov 7, 2011)

wyteboi said:


> looks very good LL .... i looked at your pics.... it dont get any better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks, exactly what I needed to hear.

+rep to ya


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## wyteboi (Nov 7, 2011)

Rotweiller said:


> Earth on the left, Neutral in the centre and SL on the right. If it can be used Should i just use 2 core cable? Live/Neutral into Live/Neutral connections? The "SL" connection is (I'm Guessing) Switch Live for the built in Timer and don't think i would be using it? Or should i Bridge the SL to Live and wire up Live and Neutral as normal?
> Many Thanks if you can help
> Forgot to ask. What size Fuse should i use ? 3AMP, 5AMP or 13AMP? The fan is rated 50Hz 15Watt.
> [/B][/B]


i dont know what a 2 core cable is ? sorry , im a dumb american....

is what your calling "live" a forth connection ? if not then you should be able to run the hot wire to the SL an the neutral to the neutral an ground to earth an it should work fine, then you could run a switch if you want to , but its not necessary. 

if the "live" thing is a forth connection then you would wire the hot to the live then the same as above.

your electricity is a tiny bit different then ours but we can get through it.

a 3amp fuse is fine for that fan. you can get a cheap "good fan" these days , they are a LOT more efficient. (as long as budget is right  )






soil


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## wyteboi (Nov 7, 2011)

handyman0331 said:


> hey i have 4 54w t5 bulbs and was wondering if it would be any cheaper and not to difficult to make my own fixture? Also i know that i would need ballast and sockets,is there any other components that would be necessary other than homemade fixture of course.thanks for any feedback.


i am pretty sure the ballast will cost as much as a cheap fixture , but i may be wrong fuckin with T5's. those fixtures are outragous. 

of course you can do it yourself , all you need is what you already mentioned. (ballast an sockets an maybe a few small wirenuts)





soil


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## Rotweiller (Nov 7, 2011)

Hello wyteboi, Thanks for your help & No-one is Dumb Here if this Site is All about Learning 
2 Core Wire/Cable is just Live (Brown) and Neutral (Blue).
3 Core Wire/Cable is Live(Brown), Neutral(Blue) and Earth (Yellow/Green Stripes).
I've just found this Pic. on the Net: 
As you can see, There isn&#8217;t an Earth Connection on the Fan. Only a Live, Neutral and Switch Live.
So if i cut a piece of Live wire about 1 inch long and connect it to the SL and L.
Next connect the Neutral Wire to the N and the Live Wire in with the L.
Does that sound right to you so far? And a 3 AMP Fuse in to the Plug.
Oh, And I&#8217;ve got no budget again like my First time growing MJ earlier this year lol...... I've just Spent it on a new 1.2x1.2x2.0 Grow Tent, 600Watt Duel Light and Ballast & Shade & New Beans (Pineapple Chunk & AK47) + More.
But forgot about Fans... Thats why i'm doing this lol....


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## Rotweiller (Nov 7, 2011)

I've just done this quickly 
1 Inch long- Live(Brown) Jumper Cable = SL into L.
Main Cable with 13 AMP Plug on the Other End = Live into L, Neutral(Blue) into N.
Is this Correct and Would it work ?
Thank you for the Help from an English man who needs a Joint


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## wyteboi (Nov 7, 2011)

Rotweiller said:


> I've just done this quickly View attachment 1877096
> 1 Inch long- Live(Brown) Jumper Cable = SL into L.
> Main Cable with 13 AMP Plug on the Other End = Live into L, Neutral(Blue) into N.
> Is this Correct and Would it work ?
> Thank you for the Help from an English man who needs a Joint


where is the switch that was supposed to control the fan ? it would help if i seen that.

in the us , our switch to that paticular fan would be the standard wall switch. did it have a light built in it at one point ?

so far i am thinking you are right on the wiring , but i will come back with a for sure answer.





soil


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## wyteboi (Nov 7, 2011)

if thats your fan/light in the spec photo you stole,  then try to take that jumper out an just use the L an the N an that should fire him up.

i _think _the SL is to turn the light on separate from the fan.... so it would need no power if your not usin it.




soil


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## mrmadcow (Nov 8, 2011)

wyteboi said:


> i _think _the SL is to turn the light on separate from the fan.... so it would need no power if your not usin it.
> soil


 the fan in the link has a timer built in so when you turn the bath light on, the fan comes on and when you turn the light off, the fan continues to run for a minute to clear the air.the SL terminal is a trigger to turn fan on and start timer when de-energized.


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## mrmadcow (Nov 8, 2011)

handyman0331 said:


> hey i have 4 54w t5 bulbs and was wondering if it would be any cheaper and not to difficult to make my own fixture? ....


only downside to making your own fixture is it is not UL approved so in the event of a fire, it WILL be blamed for the fire & your homeowners insurance will give you shit. this happened to a buddy last yr when his garage burned & insureance co [email protected] w/ him till he produced reciepts to show all electric was done by code and all devices met UL. btw, grow was not legal but since crop burned to ground,nothing was left to charge him with.


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## wyteboi (Nov 8, 2011)

mrmadcow said:


> the fan in the link has a timer built in so when you turn the bath light on, the fan comes on and when you turn the light off, the fan continues to run for a minute to clear the air.the SL terminal is a trigger to turn fan on and start timer when de-energized.


Thanks cow !
if this is correct then your wiring should work with the jumper you made. i would try SL an N first then if that dont do it then add your jumper back in. 

sorry for all the confusion , like i said my skills are limited to n america. 







soil


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## Rotweiller (Nov 8, 2011)

Thank you wyteboi for your much needed knowledge and expertise  I'll give it a try on Wednesday night and see what happens?
If it works out OK I'll let you all know and take a few Photos for Reference in case anyone else might want a Cheaper Solution for Intake/Out-take Fans as you can pick up these type of fans quite cheaply now (without the timers built in them) for about £5/$11 New (if your on a Tight Budget).
If it doesn't work, once I&#8217;ve dug through the chard remains of my house and found my laptop lol.... I&#8217;ll have to think of another solution...
Anyway, That's Defo worth a Beer and a +Rep  You will have to come and pick up the Beer though


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## Rotweiller (Nov 8, 2011)

Hello MrM. Many thanks for your Help as well. I couldn't have done it without you both. So Fingers Crossed it should work OK


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## wyteboi (Nov 9, 2011)

if it dont work (it will) then it wont pop or nothin, it just wont work. 

defiantly come back an let us know.

i would come an get the beer but your dog dont like me , i can tell from the pic  i'll just bring my dog an let them occupy each other...






soil


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## Rotweiller (Nov 9, 2011)

LOL... My dog Loves Everyone But the Postman & Garbage man...Ha Ha...
And wyteboi... Your a STAR... It work's like a Dream...
I left the Fan just as in the Photo with the jumper cable bridging the SL & L. 
It has now been Running for 7 hours and my Temp's have gone down to 80 Degrees and is Steady as a Rock...
The only downside is it isn't the Quietest but if I shut the door you can't hear it  Once I get a Filter for it that should stop most of the noise.
It isn't the motor that&#8217;s noisy, It's the HUGE Amount of Air it's throwing out 
But All in All... FANTASTIC...


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## jang707 (Nov 9, 2011)

I would like to run two 30 single pole amp circuits for my lights, and i was wondering what kind of wire i should run for 30 amp 120 V circuit, or would you suggest running a 220 v two pole circuit?


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## supernovagrowlights (Nov 9, 2011)

you can use 10ga wire on 30a circuit, dont know how your box is setup , but if you run 208 or 240 you will be able to fit more ballasts on that circuit


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## jang707 (Nov 9, 2011)

ok i only have 2 more spots for breakers so its either 1 220 or two 110 circuits, both would be 30 amps, what one would you suggest?


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## imanoob (Nov 12, 2011)

I have the 1.5A STR Fan Speed Controller

http://www.greenshorticulture.co.uk/categories/Growroom-Products/Environmental-Control/STR-Voltage-Stepping-Fan-Speed-Controller/

So only has one output. Can cut the plug off a multi plug adapter and run multiple things (upto 1.5A) from this one output?


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## mrmadcow (Nov 12, 2011)

dont see why not as long as you dont exceed the amp rating.


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## wyteboi (Nov 13, 2011)

jang707 said:


> ok i only have 2 more spots for breakers so its either 1 220 or two 110 circuits, both would be 30 amps, what one would you suggest?


im not even sure they make a single pole 30 ? put 2 single pull 20amp breakers in an run a 12 guage wire to each breaker. thats enough for 4000watts. 

the only way to use the 220 30 amp would be to use/make a "sub box" or a light controller or something that is just gonna separate the 2 circuits anyway. (10 ga wire wont even fit into a regular outlet)


how much power do you really need ? 
are your ballast able to be run on a *single phase *220 ?






soil


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## Tony18 (Nov 15, 2011)

I have a couple of magnetic ballast from sun light supply. i want to convert them the from 120v to 240v. Can anyone show me how? By the way i already called customer support and the told me that all i had to do is open the the ballast and switch one wire. And then go buy the 240v power cord.


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## jang707 (Nov 15, 2011)

yea they do make a single pole 30 amp breaker, i had one in my hand the other day at lowes... I plan on only running 2 1000 watt lights in the beginning but i would like to have the extra space to expand when my first grow is done... but i think i will just go with 2 20 amp breakers if 10 guage wire wont fit in the outlet boxes


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## stickymc (Nov 15, 2011)

*can I run 4, 250w hps bulbs off a single 1000w ballast? 


*


----------



## mike91sr (Nov 15, 2011)

wyteboi said:


> even if you could the circuit would be completely maxed out.
> 
> if your ballast have the adapter inside to switch to 220 with just a simple cord then yes you can run them at 220, but if they are regular multi-tap ballast then i have found no way possible to get 220 out of a single phase panel.
> (the ballast needs a 220 leg an a neutral an there is no such thing as a 220 leg in single phase setup. (you have 2 - 110 legs , but not one single 220)


Thanks. My ballasts have a 220v cord. Quantum  What about a 220v step up transformer in the outlet?


----------



## phxfire (Nov 15, 2011)

Question:::

I am trying to have a Subpanel...

I am thinking about tapping into a breaker that is on a GFI and its own breaker... 15 Amps....

How could I tap into the outlet?


----------



## OneHit (Nov 15, 2011)

I just got a magnetic lock with a RFID reader, but im not sure how to wire it. 
I got
http://www.tmart.com/26Hbased-ID-Sensing-Head-Sensor-Card-Reader_p106302.html
and
http://www.ebay.com/itm/190525000108?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
can anyone help?


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## Kdn (Nov 15, 2011)

OneHit said:


> I just got a magnetic lock with a RFID reader, but im not sure how to wire it.
> I got
> http://www.tmart.com/26Hbased-ID-Sensing-Head-Sensor-Card-Reader_p106302.html
> and
> ...


 You are going to need some kind of microcontroller, or computer with RS232 to interface the card reader. The idea is, you scan your card - the controller reads the serial signal and decides if your card is correct or not - if card passes then you release the mag lock on the door. You prolly need a relay to controll the mag lock as well. An Arduino may be a good place to start, but I dont know if the protocol that RFID unit uses is known or not.


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## Tony18 (Nov 16, 2011)

What are some of the options that let you go big with out pulling such a big power load?


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## lier (Nov 16, 2011)

hey!
i need help! i made post already with pictures. please check it out!
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/487449-y-did-my-lamp-cord.html


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## wyteboi (Nov 17, 2011)

Tony18 said:


> I have a couple of magnetic ballast from sun light supply. i want to convert them the from 120v to 240v. Can anyone show me how? By the way i already called customer support and the told me that all i had to do is open the the ballast and switch one wire. And then go buy the 240v power cord.


you would have to show me the inside of the ballast to help you. 

i would love to know where they want you to "switch one wire". 

it took me a lot of years an quite a few good electricians to realize you can not get 220 out of a single phase panel. (unless your talkin 2 110s to equal 220) with a regular multi-tap ballast.
A lot of the newer ballast come with a way to use the 2 110's to make it work with 220 an all you gotta do is plug it in. i would need the specs an wiring on your ballast to get you right.






soil


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## wyteboi (Nov 17, 2011)

jang707 said:


> yea they do make a single pole 30 amp breaker, i had one in my hand the other day at lowes... I plan on only running 2 1000 watt lights in the beginning but i would like to have the extra space to expand when my first grow is done... but i think i will just go with 2 20 amp breakers if 10 guage wire wont fit in the outlet boxes


if they make the breaker , they proly make a 30amp outlet too. so im sure you could use 10g if you really wanted to, but i would go with 2 20amps myself. that is good for 4000 watts an if you ran them all 220 then you could run 8000 watts, so there is plenty of power there.






soil


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## wyteboi (Nov 17, 2011)

stickymc said:


> *can I run 4, 250w hps bulbs off a single 1000w ballast?
> 
> 
> *


i am pretty sure you can but have never done it , so i wouldnt try without someone with more experience in playing. i believe the ignitor would have probs firing all four bulbs. ? check google an get back with us.






soil


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## wyteboi (Nov 17, 2011)

mike91sr said:


> Thanks. My ballasts have a 220v cord. Quantum  What about a 220v step up transformer in the outlet?


If your ballast have the 220 cord then it would be no prob to run 220.





soil


----------



## wyteboi (Nov 17, 2011)

phxfire said:


> Question:::
> 
> I am trying to have a Subpanel...
> 
> ...


you can tap into it with a simple piece of wire, but that wouldnt be called a "subpanel" ....... that would give you 15 amps to use minus whatever is plugged into that gfi.








soil


----------



## wyteboi (Nov 17, 2011)

Tony18 said:


> What are some of the options that let you go big with out pulling such a big power load?


steal it or pay for it , thats the only options. (or of course a generator)

the power company dont give a fuck how much you use , long as you pay for it. a warrant is not obtainable with just high power use. 

one time i had the power co call me an warn me that my bill was way higher then the old people that lived here before, but that was just simply to let me know i use more power then the average on this house ....... i said ok , an they never cared. (that was years ago)






soil


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## mike91sr (Nov 17, 2011)

So a step up transformer would actually lower my amp draw? What about kwh (bill)?

Also, what should I look for quality-wise with one of these units?


----------



## wyteboi (Nov 17, 2011)

calbunn said:


> *I posted this on another thread since but I thought the metering side of this may be of interest here too.
> 
> Here's a cheap way of determining connected loads on a single circuit or the main panel and you don't have to go out and buy the clampon style ampmeter unless you got an extra $100 to spare. BTW there's nothing wrong with owning or using a clamp on ampmeter but they are moment in time measurements so you should alsoturn everything on the house you can lay your hands on. This creates the biggest, worst case 'moment in time drain' on the entire electric system. That should include AC systems, microwave, hair dryers, etc....
> 
> ...


VERY GOOD INFO calbunn ! 

whoever may be reading might get a lil scared from your power company info though.

they can monitor when you use your power but nothing they monitor can be used against you without a real warrant. an they cannot issue a warrant on the solo fact most of your power gets used 18/6 or 12/12. (there are many reasons one would use timers an high power consumption besides growin dope!)

of course there is always that lil town that is targeting growers an would use illegal tactics to get to them. that happens everywhere ! cops are crooked. but if they are illegally lookin at your power then they already know your name an what you do , they are just tryin to prove it. 

Just try to stay as legal as you can , always. 








soil


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## wyteboi (Nov 17, 2011)

mike91sr said:


> So a step up transformer would actually lower my amp draw? What about kwh (bill)?
> 
> Also, what should I look for quality-wise with one of these units?


Yes , when you step up from 110 to 220 it drops the amp draw in half. ( 1000watt at 110v = around 8.5 amps ..... 1000watt at 220v = 4.25 ish)

No , that will not save any money on the bill. (maybe some pennies because of less resistance) they bill in watts an 1000 watts = 1000 watts no matter what.

Using 220 will enable you to run more devices on one circuit because the wire is rated by amps. (you can run 2000 watts off 14 gauge wire with 220 , but if you run it 110 you can only run one. just an example)

Your not gonna need a transformer though because its built in to your ballast.







soil


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## mike91sr (Nov 17, 2011)

wyteboi said:


> Yes , when you step up from 110 to 220 it drops the amp draw in half. ( 1000watt at 110v = around 8.5 amps ..... 1000watt at 220v = 4.25 ish)
> 
> No , that will not save any money on the bill. (maybe some pennies because of less resistance) they bill in watts an 1000 watts = 1000 watts no matter what.
> 
> ...


I think you may have misunderstood me about the transformer/converter. I'm running this in a bedroom, standard 110v. With my lights, a/c, fans, etc the breaker pops. I'm trying to, without upgrading them entire circuit, be able to run all these things on the one circuit. So would a voltage converter be good for this or unsafe/inefficient?


----------



## roguewar (Nov 18, 2011)

Hello new poster here but I have a legit concern with my setup. For my veg cycle I have 4 6400 k lights low wattage along with 8 other CFL and I have 12 pumps @ 8 watts per along with 1 CAN 450+ CFM fan, 2 6" ducting fans about 150 CFM per, an AC 12,000 BTU 1100 watt/10.5 amp, ozn generator which is low power consumption, and 4 oscillating fans. The problem is my blooming when I will be replacing my veg lights with 4 600 watt HPS lights and respective ballasts. Electric fire is a big concern of mine what would be the best way to go about this in regards to setup in the safest manner?


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## Beansfranklin (Nov 19, 2011)

hey there, i bought a used a/c and plugged it in and everything was fine, i went in a lil later to check things out only to find that the 15amp breaker blown, theirs 300w in cfls a stanley blower a 12'' fan and the a/c, the a/c is 6.6amp i reset the breaker and turned down the settings thinking it was drawing to much power, breaker tripped again and i removed 12'' fan, but turned settings to full blast, then next morning all lights in room went out and then came back on(i don't think it was the whole house that lost power because the clock on the stove didn't reset. now high speed fan setting doesn't work and the compressors not turning on could i have blown something in the a/c?

also the high speed doesn't work on fan or cool mode but med and low still work for both. i took the a/c a part a lil bit and looked at the wires coming from the dials everything looked normal.

Any thoughts.


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## darthcultavader (Nov 20, 2011)

so i just moved into my new house i had the breaker box completely changed out and a new 200 amp installed im going to be running 4 thousand watts and 4 600 watt hps's, all are going to be ran on a seprat 50 amp breaker... the box has been compleated and inspected by the electric company and the county everything is good. However this is were the problem begins. The house i moved into is a older one built in the 50's and the lights dim or get brighter when ever i turn on appliances in the house. When i told the electrition he said it was not a big deal that houses built in that era had the lights and appliances on the same circuit and that was the reasons for the flickering...my question is this flickering going to effect my hps bulbs, i had a 600 wat running when i was running a 10 amp saw in another room (it made the lights in the house flicker like crazy) and i think the fluxes in energy may have burnt out the bulb because it no longer works and was lightly used....im going to call a qualified electrician again to make sure everything is ok, but i have 18 plants that NEED to be transplanted and have some hps light put on them, so i was going to set up a few lights so my plants dont go into shock and move them when the electrician comes. Is this temporary idea ok or do you think im going to be blowing bulbs left and right


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## mrmadcow (Nov 20, 2011)

darthcultavader said:


> so i just moved into my new house i had the breaker box completely changed out .....


 just to make sure I understand, you have a new 200 amp panel w/ a 50 amp sub w/ all new wires for your grow.I assume the wiring leading to your panel is correct as it has been inspected. in the house itself, lights in the house dim/flicker when you turn on an appliance. my guess is that it is because both the lights & appliance are running on the old wireing & it is not heavy enough to take the strain of the heavy load. since your grow is on proper sized wire, it should not be affected. to confirm this, you could buy a cheap multimeter like this.
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?keyword=multimeter
set it for a volts ac scale & plug it into an outlet in your grow room. have someone fire up the saw on a house circuit & watch the meter. dropping a few volts wont hurt but if you loose over 10 volts,you may need an electrician. my guess is like your electrician said


> *that houses built in that era had the lights and appliances on the same circuit and that was the reasons for the flickering.*


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## mrmadcow (Nov 20, 2011)

roguewar said:


> .... The problem is my blooming when I will be replacing my veg lights with 4 600 watt HPS lights and respective ballasts. Electric fire is a big concern of mine what would be the best way to go about this in regards to setup in the safest manner?


 for that much light you will need a dedicated circuit or 2 to that room. a 20 amp 220 circuit would be ideal.


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## mrmadcow (Nov 20, 2011)

mike91sr said:


> . I'm trying to, without upgrading them entire circuit, be able to run all these things on the one circuit. So would a voltage converter be good for this or unsafe/inefficient?


 not possible, a voltage converter will draw more juice than the appliances alone. if you are drawing 12 amps at 110 & find a converter that jumps power to 220. your draw on the the converter will be only 6 amps but it will still take 12 amps of 110 to produce it.accually more because no converter is 100% effecient.


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## Tony18 (Nov 22, 2011)

Yea those lights are really cool. I accutally was introduced to those a couple of weeks ago. The price is kinda high but i think you get the money back on the reduction on your electricty bill. But all in all looks promising!!!!!!


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## Tony18 (Nov 22, 2011)

Thats crazy!! But i here that alot "just pay your bill". I dont know were your at but I've heard that you cant steal if your have one of those new smart meters on your house. Plus I'm agianst stealling anyway.


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## Rcb (Nov 22, 2011)

i started to read thru and realized theres a lot of pages so i figured i would just ask if i want to put a wall socket on my wall in my room from a outside souce would i run like and extension cord with the female end but the one with wires and then wire to the socket? is this safe?


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## [email protected] (Nov 24, 2011)

hey i have just picked up a 220w cfl with external ballast exactly the same as this one  but when i turned it on for the first time it made a buzzing sound and half the bulb was dim then when the buzzing sound turned off smoke started coming out of the ballast.
Any help on how i could possibly fix it would be really appreciated.


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## oakley1984 (Nov 24, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> hey i have just picked up a 220w cfl with external ballast exactly the same as this one View attachment 1904237 but when i turned it on for the first time it made a buzzing sound and half the bulb was dim then when the buzzing sound turned off smoke started coming out of the ballast.
> Any help on how i could possibly fix it would be really appreciated.



yep, heres how you fix it, return it and get another one.


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## wyteboi (Nov 25, 2011)

Rcb said:


> i started to read thru and realized theres a lot of pages so i figured i would just ask if i want to put a wall socket on my wall in my room from a outside souce would i run like and extension cord with the female end but the one with wires and then wire to the socket? is this safe?


no , not going outside its not safe. you will need to use uf wire for outside use.








soil


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## coben (Nov 25, 2011)

Hello Im in the market for a new lighting controller and I would like to build one.I found the DIY 4-6 light controller here on Rollitup and would like to build one with a 4 prong dryer cord.I was interested in this a year ago and I ended up buying one for $260.00. Now that controller is stuck at a friends.I NEED to build this, I should have built it a year ago. The DIY 4-6 light controller tutorial is exceptional could you give me the info I need to make this controller with a modern 4 prong cord. Thanks. 300 pages nice


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## MapleMint (Nov 26, 2011)

Hi Bricktown73

I'm a noob and am in process of building a small stealth cab. I've wired up two pc fans in parallel (12V DC / 300 mA with stock manual RPM control each) with a 12V DC / 1000 mA power supply (plug adapter, not computer power supply). I've ensured good contact of all wires and things seemed to run well. I stepped out for a few hours and came home to find one fan running very slowly and the other bone dead. Any insight you can offer is much appreciated. Thanks

MM


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## roguewar (Nov 27, 2011)

roguewar said:


> Hello new poster here but I have a legit concern with my setup. For my veg cycle I have 4 6400 k lights low wattage along with 8 other CFL and I have 12 pumps @ 8 watts per along with 1 CAN 450+ CFM fan, 2 6" ducting fans about 150 CFM per, an AC 12,000 BTU 1100 watt/10.5 amp, ozn generator which is low power consumption, and 4 oscillating fans. The problem is my blooming when I will be replacing my veg lights with 4 600 watt HPS lights and respective ballasts. Electric fire is a big concern of mine what would be the best way to go about this in regards to setup in the safest manner?


Thanks for responses to my question above guys. Now I have some additional questions if you don't mind. For obvious reasons I can't hire an electrician to come to the location to install a panel inside of the room. Can anyone give me a parts list and maybe a DIY video so I can install the panel myself? Please keep in mind that I have no experience with this at all. Any help would be much appreciated.


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## mrmadcow (Nov 28, 2011)

w/ no experience, you might be better off running a dedicated 20 amp 220 line to the room to feed the lights. it would be a lot easier DIY project than a subpanel (assuming your ballasts can run 220)
you would need a 220 breaker that fits your current box, 12/3 romex, and a few single gang outlet boxes w/ recepticals that match your lights. a hardwired hotwater timer could be added to control the lights -something like this
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100685853/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=1


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## Xxtimaxx (Nov 29, 2011)

Hello everyone, couple of questione about me wirering set up. Some one can exPlain me the wire set up, what kinde of panel,breaker,timer I will need. Relay... Will need this too and how I plug it?. I got 3 1000w hps, 1 vortex and the rest to grow! With all electric things I will have about 4000w. Big thx guys very appreciate for your help!


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## mrmadcow (Nov 29, 2011)

Xxtimaxx said:


> Hello everyone, couple of questione about me wirering set up. Some one can exPlain me the wire set up, what kinde of panel,breaker,timer I will need. Relay... Will need this too and how I plug it?. I got 3 1000w hps, 1 vortex and the rest to grow! With all electric things I will have about 4000w. Big thx guys very appreciate for your help!


N.America or Europe?


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## Xxtimaxx (Nov 29, 2011)

Canada quebec


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## itsallinthewrist (Nov 29, 2011)

well mr experienced electrician how would i go about obtaining high output leds like they use in growlights how much would i cost to make my own led board of various colors purples reds blue a few whites


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## mrmadcow (Nov 29, 2011)

google high output leds to find them
I looked into building 1 when they first came out. did the research,priced them out & found that it would only save about $20 instead of buying a UFO from ebay. factor in a couple hours of time to solder all the connections........


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## mrmadcow (Nov 29, 2011)

Xxtimaxx said:


> Some one can exPlain me the wire set up, what kinde of panel,breaker,timer I will need. Relay... Will need this too and how I plug it?. I got 3 1000w hps, 1 vortex and the rest to grow! With all electric things I will have about 4000w. Big thx guys very appreciate for your help!


if you are asking this vague a question,I assume you have little or no experience w/ electric work so I would keep it simple.instead of a subpanel,you can run a couple dedicated lines. for 3000 watts of light,I would run a 20 amp, 220 line w/ a water heater type timer & a 20 amp 110 breaker for everything else. you will need a 20 amp 220 breaker and a 20 amp 110 breaker that fit your make of panel. enough 12/2 & 12/3 romex to reach from grow to panel.a hot water timer simular to this.http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100685853/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
electric boxes & outlets, romex staples and a good book on the basics of home wiring


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## growup121 (Nov 30, 2011)

My 400w ballast took a shit on me any idea why? And also I plain on buying a new one how would I go about wireing it up? And besides the ballast what else do I need to buy...


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## mrmadcow (Nov 30, 2011)

a ballast is made of 3 parts, a transformer,capacitor, & ignitor. any of the 3 could have failed but the transformer itself is least likely. if its more than 5 yrs old,I would just buy the entire kit & be done w/ it. most kits I have seen are already wired & all you need to do is attach the leads for the light & power. a wiring diagram will be attached & you can follow the old wiring.
be careful of the cap,(metal box about the size of a pack of ciggeretes w/ 2 wires) it holds current even after being unplugged.you can short it out by touching the 2 terminals together w/ a screwdriver to get a spark & discharge it.


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## nugluvr1 (Nov 30, 2011)

My friend had a 1000 watt metal halide lamp with like 10,000 hrs on it, blow up. Is that another reason you're supposed to relamp more often on the metal halide lamps. Or do you think he may have had some kind of voltage surge that caused this? It was a mess.


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## nugluvr1 (Nov 30, 2011)

I was thinking of going from my magnetic to digital ballasts for 4 of my 1000watt HPS lamps. Do digital ballasts need any kind of surge suppression on the incoming power? I guess I'm asking if they're more or less susceptible to incoming voltage fluctuations?


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## wyteboi (Dec 1, 2011)

nugluvr1 said:


> My friend had a 1000 watt metal halide lamp with like 10,000 hrs on it, blow up. Is that another reason you're supposed to relamp more often on the metal halide lamps. Or do you think he may have had some kind of voltage surge that caused this? It was a mess.


ive got well over 10,000 hours on a mh 1000 ..... they just get weaker an finally go out (sometimes they shut on an off when your not lookin) 
but they should not explode ? that sounds like your buddy did something wrong ..... like mist the hot 1000? or bump into it too many times ..... which is why my 400 is flickering.




soil


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## wyteboi (Dec 1, 2011)

nugluvr1 said:


> I was thinking of going from my magnetic to digital ballasts for 4 of my 1000watt HPS lamps. Do digital ballasts need any kind of surge suppression on the incoming power? I guess I'm asking if they're more or less susceptible to incoming voltage fluctuations?


i believe the digitals are more susceptible then the magnetic ones , but the magnetic ones last forever , i dont like digital ballast myself because of there lifespan but i also have no hands on experience with them either. 





soil


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## chester12 (Dec 1, 2011)

hi i was wondering how it would be best to wire up a PC fan. can i just plug it into mains? or is there a special way of doing it


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## Xxtimaxx (Dec 1, 2011)

mrmadcow said:


> if you are asking this vague a question,I assume you have little or no experience w/ electric work so I would keep it simple.instead of a subpanel,you can run a couple dedicated lines. for 3000 watts of light,I would run a 20 amp, 220 line w/ a water heater type timer & a 20 amp 110 breaker for everything else. you will need a 20 amp 220 breaker and a 20 amp 110 breaker that fit your make of panel. enough 12/2 & 12/3 romex to reach from grow to panel.a hot water timer simular to this.http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100685853/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
> electric boxes & outlets, romex staples and a good book on the basics of home wiring


 thank you man


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## roidrage152 (Dec 1, 2011)

Does an experienced electrician still come here? I have this question in newb town.

https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/492074-need-help-diy-controller.html


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## wyteboi (Dec 3, 2011)

we got real good electricians here all the time roid !






soil


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## wyteboi (Dec 3, 2011)

roidrage152 said:


> Does an experienced electrician still come here? I have this question in newb town.
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/492074-need-help-diy-controller.html


go check your thread .... i "fixed it" for ya....






soil


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## mrmadcow (Dec 3, 2011)

chester12 said:


> hi i was wondering how it would be best to wire up a PC fan. can i just plug it into mains? or is there a special way of doing it


no you need a transformer see this post
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/385722-about-pc-fans.html


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## LEGALGROWCO (Dec 3, 2011)

Yo i'm totally f'd here. Where dem sparky's at????
This is above my pay grade.






Just lost power to a 3000W bloom room. yeah... Please help. 

Background: Room has 4 120v outlets, currently running 3 1000w lights and small duct fans, ac on different outlets. I know, I know... that COULD be the issue, but i thought if they ran without blowing a breaker they were fine???? Everything has been running fine for over a week, so I assumed no need for different outlets or any 240V wiring, but all of a sudden today the whole room just lost power! WTF?! Only that room too. Bathroom next to it works. Flipped breaker for room and nothing came back on. Is this a blown fuse? Can i fix it and try just two lights. Please help. i'm running 1 light from my kitchen right now. not cool. 

And the room IS directly above my breaker box since i have a feeling that is where this could be going, so maybe I*(he) can run 240v line up from box through floor of room??? This is a last option though....






















​


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## ChainSmoking (Dec 4, 2011)

So I am almost positive on the answer to this, but im just clarifying with ppl who pry know a little more than me. So I have a 250v 60A welding plug in my garage. I want to remove the plug and replace it with a quad 110v plug. Will I have any problems when doing this and running my 2 -600's and the fans for my grow tent? I am assuming no, but just checking. Thanks ahead of time!


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## wyteboi (Dec 5, 2011)

LEGALGROWCO said:


> Yo i'm totally f'd here. Where dem sparky's at????
> This is above my pay grade.
> 
> 
> ...


half the plugs in that room (or all) are probably on the same circuit. you are gonna need to go through an see what is all on every circuit you need. (turn off breaker an see what all dont work , then turn back on an repeat with the next breaker.

un plug a light or 2 then go reset your breaker again , it should come back on........






soil


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## wyteboi (Dec 5, 2011)

ChainSmoking said:


> So I am almost positive on the answer to this, but im just clarifying with ppl who pry know a little more than me. So I have a 250v 60A welding plug in my garage. I want to remove the plug and replace it with a quad 110v plug. Will I have any problems when doing this and running my 2 -600's and the fans for my grow tent? I am assuming no, but just checking. Thanks ahead of time!


that will be just fine. you have 60 amps to work with. it would be even better if you could put some 20 amp breakers after the 60a plug but before the 120v outlets. you'll only be usin bout 15 amps anyway.







soil


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## colerbear (Dec 5, 2011)

Yes! Hopefully some body can please help. New to growing and everything that goes with it especially powering my tent safely. I have a Dr120 inside got filter 435 cfm exhaust fan 600 watt ballast with 600 how bulb. Small oscilating fan and humidifier. Can a extension cord take this all? My outlets will be from the garage if that matters. Also how to hook the Timers up as well? Safety is my number one thing don't want to spark my tent on fire. Thanks for any help provided


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## ChainSmoking (Dec 5, 2011)

Never Mind, I figured it out. Thanks guys


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## colerbear (Dec 5, 2011)

Any help please


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## wyteboi (Dec 6, 2011)

colerbear said:


> Yes! Hopefully some body can please help. New to growing and everything that goes with it especially powering my tent safely. I have a Dr120 inside got filter 435 cfm exhaust fan 600 watt ballast with 600 how bulb. Small oscilating fan and humidifier. Can a extension cord take this all? My outlets will be from the garage if that matters. Also how to hook the Timers up as well? Safety is my number one thing don't want to spark my tent on fire. Thanks for any help provided


yes a good 12 gauge cord will work. first you need to find out if there is anything else on your garage circuit. (turn off that breaker only an check the whole house for things that dont work)

also i need to know how many watts or amps the humidifier uses? without that you will be fine on a 15 amp circuit.

if you can jot down everything your using an the watts/amps of that device then we will get you growin.







soil


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## perkele (Dec 6, 2011)

Hi there,
Any chance I could convert somehow an E40 into an E27 without a converter ? I live in a country where people here are using only edisons so it's hard for me and it's taking a lot of time to buy a converter from the ebay ( stuff coming from Hong Kong in 2-3 weeks). The main idea ... I bought from ebay a cable with a E40 and my light bulbs are E27...Please advice


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## wyteboi (Dec 6, 2011)

perkele said:


> Hi there,
> Any chance I could convert somehow an E40 into an E27 without a converter ? I live in a country where people here are using only edisons so it's hard for me and it's taking a lot of time to buy a converter from the ebay ( stuff coming from Hong Kong in 2-3 weeks). The main idea ... I bought from ebay a cable with a E40 and my light bulbs are E27...Please advice


no thats impossible .... i think. 
you need a converter. see if ebay has one in your country so it dont take so long.








soil


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## perkele (Dec 6, 2011)

ok... to buy one from china or hong knog it will take too long, I saw a ceramic E27 in a hidden place in the city. I'll just go, buy that for 9 euros and cut the f***ing cable and put the E27 instead of the E40...it's my only quick option I think.


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## perkele (Dec 6, 2011)

thanks for the advice


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## perkele (Dec 6, 2011)

and by the way, excellent motto : *" Folks try to hard. They give their plants too much of everything usually. Sometimes less is more." 
​*


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## Frawsti (Dec 6, 2011)

Hi, newbie here. I skimmed through the first 10 pages until i figured there was no way in hell that id be able to go through 302. 

My basement was clearly wired by someone who doesnt know what they are doing. I've got 4 wall outlets in the basement total, the breakers flip on me at least once every two weeks. Seeing as i live here alone, all my electricity is pulled from these four outlets with extension cords running around. One outlet, for example, has a servo computer and my reg computer running on it, along with plugs for a router/wireless router/printer/two moniters/a lamp. That breaker flips anytime i have all running at once. 

My grow lights i have on one outlet, but im fixing to run a new setup. Currently ive got 4 27w CFL's and two t12 flourys that each run two bulbs then a dehumidifier/air purifier/fan. No blow outs to date.

My new setup however is going to be running 8 100w CFL's in addition to the dehumidifier/air purifier/heater. I can go find how much electricity they use if you need me to, im just not sure what to look for. Will all that be able to be handled on one circuit? Thanks so much

edit; If there's anymore information you need just let me know. I am a horrible noob when it comes to electricity though, i really know near to nothing. >.>


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## colerbear (Dec 6, 2011)

What's a 12 gauge cord. I bought a cord from walmart that says it handels 2500 joules.


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## coolwhip. (Dec 6, 2011)

Frawsti said:


> Hi, newbie here. I skimmed through the first 10 pages until i figured there was no way in hell that id be able to go through 302.
> 
> My basement was clearly wired by someone who doesnt know what they are doing. I've got 4 wall outlets in the basement total, the breakers flip on me at least once every two weeks. Seeing as i live here alone, all my electricity is pulled from these four outlets with extension cords running around. One outlet, for example, has a servo computer and my reg computer running on it, along with plugs for a router/wireless router/printer/two moniters/a lamp. That breaker flips anytime i have all running at once.
> 
> ...


You're overloading your circuits. Installing more receptacles would help this problem. Your breakers will also trip if you are not using a sufficient enough sized cord to carry the amperage that you need.



colerbear said:


> What's a 12 gauge cord. I bought a cord from walmart that says it handels 2500 joules.


Wire is based on gauges. The lower the number, the bigger the cord. A 12ga cord is a rather big one, but if you take 2500 joules/s = 2500 watts max. Watts = volts x amps, so 2500w/120v=~20amps.


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## lluciano7 (Dec 7, 2011)

I have a shed outside and it has no power but I have previously had an electrician install a outlet that is 240 v for a welder. I believe it is 2 50 amp breakers that connect together and come down a conduit to a box on the bottom of the power pole but he never finished so the box is just empty with capped wires theres no outlet. I would like to convert this to a 120 setup. I need to be able to run a constant 2000 watts and able to support 3000 for a quick min why the timers lapse. I want to run two 1000 watt flowering rooms. One will come on as the other shuts off. and I would like to run a 600 or 400 for my veg room plus 2 fans (about 30 or 40 watts each) and two general hydro 320 gph air pumps I couldnt find the wattage on the pumps just something that said .02 amps. so ya I figured about 2000 constant draw and 3000 when the timers lapse wich would be maybe a few seconds to a min. what would I need for this? The shed is about 25 feet from the power pole so I was thinking of putting in 2 20 amp breakers with 2 25 ft 12/2 romex lines connected to an 2 outlets. that way I would have two seperate outlets each with their own 20 amp breaker. I was planning on running one of the 1000 watters and the 600 watt veg light on one outlet and the other 1000 and my fans and pumps on the other outlet. is this a bad idea ?? or even possible??is there an easier or cheaper way to accomplish this? i have space for 2 breakers but I would have to take the outlet for the welder out but it was installed about 5 years ago and never even used.. like i said its 2 50 breakers that connect to 1 line that comes down a conduit to a metal box. could i take that out somehow and put 2 20 amp breakers with 2 lines that come down a condit and run two the shed to their own seperate outlet ?? did i lose u?? lol


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## gaztoth (Dec 7, 2011)

Hey coolwhip plz can you help me,it worked fine i got it home and now it wont,iv cleaned up the wireing ta mate
HELP WITH DIY BALLIST (wireing)


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## mrmadcow (Dec 7, 2011)

lluciano7 said:


> I have a shed outside and it has no power but I have previously had an electrician install a outlet that is 240 v for a welder. I believe it is 2 50 amp breakers that connect together and come down a conduit to a box on the bottom of the power pole but he never finished so the box is just empty with capped wires theres no outlet......


 where the wires end,you could add a subpanel w/ a few breakers and as many outlets as you need


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## Lucius Vorenus (Dec 9, 2011)

Whats the best way to tap into a 240v that is 35ft from your Grow room without having to call an electrician in?


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## jesicalorren (Dec 9, 2011)

i have an electrical question... i have 2 breakers powering my room a 20 amp and a 15 amp . i would like to ask what u would do , i have a 1000w hps 600w hps 400 w mh 250 t5 and a couple of fans and an air pump like the little industrial active air kind, i havent hooked up the 600 yet, in what configuration should i hook these up?? put the 1000 and the 400 on the 20 amp and the 600 and the other stuff on the 15? or u think i need to run a new 20 or ??? n e suggestions??? please help i wana get this stuff fired up.. +rep for some help please


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## wyteboi (Dec 12, 2011)

Frawsti said:


> Hi, newbie here. I skimmed through the first 10 pages until i figured there was no way in hell that id be able to go through 302.
> 
> My basement was clearly wired by someone who doesnt know what they are doing. I've got 4 wall outlets in the basement total, the breakers flip on me at least once every two weeks. Seeing as i live here alone, all my electricity is pulled from these four outlets with extension cords running around. One outlet, for example, has a servo computer and my reg computer running on it, along with plugs for a router/wireless router/printer/two moniters/a lamp. That breaker flips anytime i have all running at once.
> 
> ...


well watts or amps is what i need to know, so 8 x 100watts is 800 watts of power , thats easy enough. now i need to know the watts and/or amps of each device listed and also every single device on the circuit you are using/havin probs with. 

like the computers for example, i have an idea of what the regular one uses but no idea what the "server" uses. IF those are the only things on the whole circuit an not just the outlet then you might have to unplug that printer when not in use an see if that helps .... i just recently found out how much juice those lil printers pull. my little brother printer pulls a 1000 watts of power when its just on. thats already over half of a standard home circuit of 15 amps.

you need to know if each of those plugs in the basement are wired together with other outlets/lights or if they are by theirselves, and what gauge the wire is going to the breaker and what size breaker your using and i can help you through the rest.






soil


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## wyteboi (Dec 12, 2011)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> Whats the best way to tap into a 240v that is 35ft from your Grow room without having to call an electrician in?


you need to know how much power that 240 is gonna be usin ? 
(how many devices/outlets and how much power are they all usin ?)

you are gonna have to run a wire all the way to the panel an put it on its own breaker.




soil


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## wyteboi (Dec 12, 2011)

jesicalorren said:


> i have an electrical question... i have 2 breakers powering my room a 20 amp and a 15 amp . i would like to ask what u would do , i have a 1000w hps 600w hps 400 w mh 250 t5 and a couple of fans and an air pump like the little industrial active air kind, i havent hooked up the 600 yet, in what configuration should i hook these up?? put the 1000 and the 400 on the 20 amp and the 600 and the other stuff on the 15? or u think i need to run a new 20 or ??? n e suggestions??? please help i wana get this stuff fired up.. +rep for some help please


you can put the 1000 an 400 together on the 15 and that maxes that circuit out but is completely safe. then you have the whole 20 to do the 600+250+ fans an shit. the 20 gives you roughly 1900 watts to work with before its maxed. (by code 80% of the breaker is safe) 
1900- 850 = 1050 left for fans an shit , just look at your fans an see the watts or amps they use. it should state both. same with the air pump.


first make sure those circuits are all by theirself so that you got the full 20 an 15 amps to work with.







soil


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## Smokey87 (Dec 15, 2011)

Hi, 
I Just finished wiring a 20a 240v plug for a thru-wall A/C, the wire that was originally ran for this circuit was for a welder (50 amp breaker) so my electrical man said to use the 6 gauge for the 2 hot wires and the ground is about 10 gauge. I could not attach the 6 gauge to the terminals on the plug because it is so large, so i made 2 6 inch jumpers from 12 guage solid strand wire so i could attach the plug(i only did this for the 6 gauge). I have turned the unit on it does work fine but i am still not too sure untill i speak to someone that has some extensive knowledge of this! Is this Safe practice? THANKS SO MUCH IN ADVANCE!!

The ac i am using draws around 6 amps on cooling and 20 draw on startup.


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## icemaiden (Dec 15, 2011)

ok got a question

i have a 1000 w ballast and cap and a home made hood grow room is sourrounded in that metal insulating material...was in buggerin around my room and the hood was wedged into the metal side wll tied there with peice of wire i moved the hood and seen a spark out of the corner of my eye and the light went out. sooo i took the wire that had the hood wedged into the wll off nothing happened just then. | I noticed that the hood hd embedded itself into the side of the wall sooooo i took it out of the wall and then big assed pop. i check the panel it didnt flip the breaker next i looked t the ballast seemed fine no scorching next i check the cap it was lying on its side touching the metl shelf it was sitting on one of the top cap thingies was ctually touching the metal shelf i stood the cap back up...
\\now as to how i grounded it i grounded the incoming line to the neutral on the buld itself but the hood itself is not grounded...should i have grounded the hood also becuse of the close metal walls? and should i try plugging the unit back in to test and should the hood also be grounded before i do this


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## mrmadcow (Dec 15, 2011)

icemaiden said:


> ok got a question....


see this thread
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/495748-help-asap-room-down.html#post6781852


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## mrmadcow (Dec 15, 2011)

Smokey87 said:


> Hi, ........ Is this Safe practice? THANKS SO MUCH IN ADVANCE!!
> 
> The ac i am using draws around 6 amps on cooling and 20 draw on startup.


what size breaker? if you are using the original 50 amp breaker, I would say no because you could be drawing 50 amps through the 12 gauge wire & that would make it glow.better to put a small subpanel at the end of the heavy wire and put in a 20 amp 220 breaker in the sub to wire your outlet to.
something like this & a 20 amp 220 breaker will run you about $35
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100559337/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


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## lbbongtoke (Dec 30, 2011)

*

I am using a spare bedroom for my grow area. I have 2 4bulb t5 lights, a medium size fan, a portable AC unit , a stand alone carbon filter and fan assy. I recently added a 600W HPS light for flowering. The room is on a 15amp C/B and as far as I know the AC unit pulls 7 amps by itself. My house is fairly new 2 yrs old and I was wondering if I can I add a 20 amp c/b? I have removed all of the side lighting I show in the pic. The room is on a separate 15 amp. Please help!​
​
*


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## wyteboi (Jan 3, 2012)

lbbongtoke said:


> *
> 
> I am using a spare bedroom for my grow area. I have 2 4bulb t5 lights, a medium size fan, a portable AC unit , a stand alone carbon filter and fan assy. I recently added a 600W HPS light for flowering. The room is on a 15amp C/B and as far as I know the AC unit pulls 7 amps by itself. My house is fairly new 2 yrs old and I was wondering if I can I add a 20 amp c/b? I have removed all of the side lighting I show in the pic. The room is on a separate 15 amp. Please help!​
> ​
> *


well your pic didnt turn out so well , but yes you can add a 20amp breaker to your existing panel if you know how. its really easy if you can fish the wire to it. (from outlet to panel)




soil


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## HIGHNSOCAL (Jan 3, 2012)

ok my grow roomis only permits15 amps ....i have on the way 2 1000w lights ane i know that draws about 18amps that gonna trip everything wat do i need to add so everything gonna be safe as gonna have 2 os fans and intake and ex/carbon and also will have a 10,000btu ac unit in and also wanna throw in a 400w in the closet for mothers....main breaker is right next to the grow room outside? much help appreciated


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## mrmadcow (Jan 3, 2012)

lbbongtoke said:


> *..... and I was wondering if I can I add a 20 amp c/b? I have removed all of the side lighting I show in the pic. The room is on a separate 15 amp. Please help!*


you do mean to add a 20 amp breaker & wiring & not swap the 15 for a 20 right? the hard part will be to get a wire from your breaker box to the room. a detailed how to w/ all the info you need will fill a small book so your best bet is to pick a book up on basic home wiring from a lowes or home depot


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## mrmadcow (Jan 3, 2012)

HIGHNSOCAL said:


> ..... what do i need to add so everything gonna be safe ....


I would consider putting the 2 1k lights on a 220 circuit, same for AC if possible or if not, run 3 20 amp 110 circuits.1 for ea light & 1 for AC. use the existing outlets for fans & ect.
dont put both lights on a single 20amp 110 circuit as you will be maxing it out & startup draw will blow the circuit altho U could put the 400 w/ a 1k light on a 20 amp breaker.


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## HIGHNSOCAL (Jan 3, 2012)

wat would i need to buy so i can run the 3 20amp circuit? also im thinkin 100amps would be best since thinkin of turning the garage into a grow and will add 2 more 1k also if i go this the 100 wat do i need dont wanna burn shit down u know haha


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## mrmadcow (Jan 3, 2012)

start w/ a book on basic home wiring. besides boxes,romex wire & the outlets, you will need breakers that fit your box.get the name off the breaker box or bring a breaker w/ you. if your within 10 feet of the panel, each circuit will run you about $20 -depending on price of breaker,some oddball breakers can run double that or more.
if you are going to expand out to the garage,consider a subpanel in the garage. for this you will need an electrician.


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## HIGHNSOCAL (Jan 3, 2012)

yeah its about 10ft away.....thaanks man u answered everything i needed so i can start my next grow.


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## roidrage152 (Jan 3, 2012)

If you are only wiring 10 feet I'd say go big on the amps. The biggest expense is the thicker guage wire. I would do like 1 super thick run because it is so short and either put in a 4 prong dryer outlet for 110 and 220 outlets, or hard wire in a custom controller with a good assortment of outlets. I personally taught myself that stuff if u do your research, be careful and then be extra careful it's not too bad. Dxhydro.com I believe is a site that does te custom controllers with any combination of outlet types timed or untimed. I just made the controllers myself tho, I put up a couple diagrams in the DIY section. Here is also a link to wire sizes. I use this as a reference Myself and have verified the numbers to be sound. The thicker wire like I said can get pretty expensive, but better to over do it. No matter what you think you will need more outlets than you thought. http://electrical.about.com/od/wiringcircuitry/a/electwiresizes.htm. The first thing I did was load up on 20 amp circuits, and my box is almost full. If I did it over I would have just done like 2 50-100 amp 220 circuits.


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## 4tatude (Jan 5, 2012)

what wire size will i need?
have to run cable 60ft to shop area from panell
cable will supply 100amp sub in shop
will be approx 9k watts used total


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## gargantuanganja (Jan 6, 2012)

I really hope you havn't already explained how to do this because I havn't read through all 101 pages of this thread, but I was wondering how I could safely convert the amperage/voltage of a car or other wet cell battery so that it can be attached or converted into an uninterruptible power supply. I've heard from several people that sell USPs that this can be done, but I personally have no idea how and I'm not about to try to figure it out myself.


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## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2012)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


Hey bricktown73, I tried to send you a PM but your inbox is too full, lol, please delete a few messages so I can send it or PM me an email address. I have some basic electrical questions regarding a small 400W closet grow and I was hoping you could offer some advice.


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## mrmadcow (Jan 6, 2012)

gargantuanganja said:


> ... I was wondering how I could safely convert the amperage/voltage of a car or other wet cell battery so that it can be attached or converted into an uninterruptible power supply. .......


google DC to AC power converter. hundreds of places sell them. the more power to convert,the pricier they get




[email protected] said:


> Hey bricktown73, I tried to send you a PM but your inbox is too full, lol, please delete a few messages so I can send it or PM me an email address. I have some basic electrical questions regarding a small 400W closet grow and I was hoping you could offer some advice.


you may have a long wait. -Bricktown has not posted in over a year. why not ask here? someone might be able to help


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## Thedillestpickle (Jan 7, 2012)

This thread is great, glad its around and still be answered to. Really makes this feel like a community. 

Heres my questions. I have baseboard heaters in the basement and the wiring for the baseboard runs straight into my room from the power box. I want to use this power to run all of my lights, eventually I plan to have 4 600's and a 400watt in the room. In the power box the baseboard wiring connects to a 20 amp fuse and the baseboards are 240V(im in canada so its 240 not 220 and 120 not 110). So Im wondering how much light I can hook up to that 20 amp 240 fuse, Im guessing I can do all 4 600's off that one power line and I could easily run the 400 along with all my other power using devices off of an extrension cord with a seperate 120v 15amp fuse. What I want to know is how can I connect 4 ballasts to this power? What I have now is just a wire, because the baseboard don't use plugs so I need to fashion some sort of plugs onto the wire. Because It is only me that will ever be in that room Im not worried about doing it to code as long as it is safe. I was thinking of fixing the wires to a regular 120V power outlet, such as the ones that are typical around the house, and then simply using standard 120V plugs to plug into that outlet, Obviously thats not to code but as long as no one else is using plug there should be no problem. Can the standard household power sockets handle that much load? The baseboard wiring has a red a white and a naked ground wire. When I looked at a 240V power outlet(the type used for driers fridges and stoves) I was a bit confused to see that there are 4 connectors instead of the 3 typically seen with 120V outlets. Why do the plugs have 4 prongs and how do I connect my 3 wires to the 4 prong outlet if I wanted to do so? Do they have power bars with multiple outlets for 240 volt outlets? Ive never seen one. If it turns out completely unsafe to run that load through 120v hardware then I need to find some other way to plug all my ballasts into that power. Thanks you for the help. ohhh and how is this thread not a stickey?


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## mrmadcow (Jan 7, 2012)

20 amps of 220 (or 240) will give you about 4000 watts but for safety, stay under 3500 watts so 4 600watts lights will be fine.- a 600 draws more than 600 watts, a digital will draw 650 & an old mag type will draw a little over 700 watts.
220 in N.America is made up from 2 110v legs that are phased differently. the 4 prong outlets have 2 hot legs,1 neutral and a ground.
you can use 110 outlets and plugs but 220 outlets are not much more in price so why violate code and risk someone plugging your new TV into a 220 outlet by mistake to save $20? are your ballasts wired for 220 or can they be converted? instead of outlets, you could buy a hotwater heater type timer and hardwire everything to it.


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## Thedillestpickle (Jan 7, 2012)

mrmadcow said:


> 20 amps of 220 (or 240) will give you about 4000 watts but for safety, stay under 3500 watts so 4 600watts lights will be fine.- a 600 draws more than 600 watts, a digital will draw 650 & an old mag type will draw a little over 700 watts.
> 220 in N.America is made up from 2 110v legs that are phased differently. the 4 prong outlets have 2 hot legs,1 neutral and a ground.
> you can use 110 outlets and plugs but 220 outlets are not much more in price so why violate code and risk someone plugging your new TV into a 220 outlet by mistake to save $20? are your ballasts wired for 220 or can they be converted? instead of outlets, you could buy a hotwater heater type timer and hardwire everything to it.



All my ballasts run on either 120 or 240 however I will have to purchase new chords that have the 4 prong 240 volt plug end or cut the 120v plugs off my current cords and fashion them with the different plugs myself. I have never seen a multi outlet power bar for 240V myself but I probably wasnt looking in the right places. Also as you mentioned I will need a special timer that can handle 240V, this is something that Ive never seen before either but Ill take a look. Running it through the 120 hardware is impractical I realize now given that a 120V timer would not handle the 240V. Why does my baseboard wire have only 2 wires and a ground when there are 4 connections with the plugs? might I have missed something and it is in fact 120V? At the fuse box each wire has its own breaker and the two breakers are barred together, each breaker says 20amp


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## sativa1973 (Jan 8, 2012)

Hey sir I wired up my pc fans two towards the top for exhaust and one bottom for intake.. I wired all three together. But even with the wire nuts and electrical tape, Inside the box, I could cover them over with Diamond Mylar, but it seems to me this would be hazards, should i switch it up and run them out the back of the box instead, or maybe just switch to AC fans?? More expensive  But i want safety! If they are 4" fans what size millimeter will match that? not to familiar with the metric system. Thank you very, very much on any and all light you shed on this subject as I want the safest home made box. It's ready to go, but I'm a little sketchy about the fan wiring inside the box it seems like running them outside down the back would be better. Contemplating biting the bullet and ordering AC fans as there is a power strip mounted on back. any help with this matter would sure take a load off! Thanks very much for your expertise in this matter and willing to share them. God bless, And burn one for me lol  Thanks, very much, sativa 1973.


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## wyteboi (Jan 8, 2012)

sativa1973 said:


> Hey sir I wired up my pc fans two towards the top for exhaust and one bottom for intake.. I wired all three together. But even with the wire nuts and electrical tape, Inside the box, I could cover them over with Diamond Mylar, but it seems to me this would be hazards, should i switch it up and run them out the back of the box instead, or maybe just switch to AC fans?? More expensive  But i want safety! If they are 4" fans what size millimeter will match that? not to familiar with the metric system. Thank you very, very much on any and all light you shed on this subject as I want the safest home made box. It's ready to go, but I'm a little sketchy about the fan wiring inside the box it seems like running them outside down the back would be better. Contemplating biting the bullet and ordering AC fans as there is a power strip mounted on back. any help with this matter would sure take a load off! Thanks very much for your expertise in this matter and willing to share them. God bless, And burn one for me lol  Thanks, very much, sativa 1973.


im bout to burn one for ya right now............


alright , where was we.... yea if i was you i would run the wires on the outside of the box so you can easily get to them when needed. 
i would go with AC fans just because of the air movement compared to pc fans. if your just usin floros or cfls they will work great, no need to spend the extra money. but if your like everybody else in the world your gonna want to upgrade eventually anyway , and you cant do too much upgradin with pc fans. 
then if you dont want the smell in the air , you'll have to get a carbon filter and a pc fan wont work for that. 

those wirenuts an electrical tape is plenty safe as long as it aint fully exposed. and of course as long as you dont overload the wire. It might _look _unsafe but inside almost every device is the same wirenuts , with the same "splices". So dont worry too much. 







soil ...... good mornin all , and God bless you all !


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## wyteboi (Jan 8, 2012)

Thedillestpickle said:


> All my ballasts run on either 120 or 240 however I will have to purchase new chords that have the 4 prong 240 volt plug end or cut the 120v plugs off my current cords and fashion them with the different plugs myself. I have never seen a multi outlet power bar for 240V myself but I probably wasnt looking in the right places. Also as you mentioned I will need a special timer that can handle 240V, this is something that Ive never seen before either but Ill take a look. Running it through the 120 hardware is impractical I realize now given that a 120V timer would not handle the 240V. Why does my baseboard wire have only 2 wires and a ground when there are 4 connections with the plugs? might I have missed something and it is in fact 120V? At the fuse box each wire has its own breaker and the two breakers are barred together, each breaker says 20amp


Your baseboard heaters (if they are 220) are wired without a neutral ... so 2 hot legs and one ground. back in the day (and even today too) they didnt use grounds as often as they do now. having a ground and a neutral wont make the device work any better but its a lil safer. the ground kinda serves as the "backup" neutral. 

i think the easiest way would be to follow cow's advice and run the single wire to a timer that you can plug all four ballasts into.

or you can run four outlets off the single wire like you said , but there would be a lot of riggin goin on. you can buy the four cords an outlets to match and it wont be so bad, but if you wanna go the cheap route , you will have to "rig" and correctly wire or risk burnin shit up. 

i dont know exactly how the 120/240 ballasts work inside, so you would have to make *sure* you know which wire goes to what connection. im not so sure it will just work off 220 by just using the current neutral as the extra hot leg. you might *have *to get the 220 plug that goes to the ballast , then do your riggin from there. 
If your not sure of how the wiring in the ballast works , then get the technical data on it so its correct. 
and since you dont have a neutral , then you will have to use the ground , thats where the riggin comes in. i dont recommend riggin anything electrical unless you know what your doing but that being said , it will work , but you wont have your "backup" neutral and thats worse on your ballast in the long run.





soil


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## wyteboi (Jan 8, 2012)

Thedillestpickle said:


> This thread is great, glad its around and still be answered to. Really makes this feel like a community.
> ohhh and how is this thread not a stickey?


Thanks , there are a few good folks on here that work real hard to keep people from dieing when messin with electricity. 

Special thanks to *big balls , brick , cow and all the people that have worked on this thread. *






soil (former wyteboi)


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## mrmadcow (Jan 8, 2012)

Thedillestpickle said:


> ...as you mentioned I will need a special timer that can handle 240V, this is something that Ive never seen before either but Ill take a look........ Why does my baseboard wire have only 2 wires and a ground when there are 4 connections with the plugs? might I have missed something and it is in fact 120V? At the fuse box each wire has its own breaker and the two breakers are barred together, each breaker says 20amp


here is the type of timer I was talking about
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100685853/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

your heater has only 2 wires plus ground because that is all it needs.plugs have a 4th wire to add a neutral for appliances that also need 110. for example, your oven has a light int it that runs off of 110.
as for wiring your ballast, I am not sure what the correct way is to connect to 220. I have seen the 220 wire hooked to 1 leg of the circuit and the common/neutral wire from the ballast hooked to the other leg but I have also seen the 110 to 1 leg and the 220 wire to the other leg. either way(follow your wiring diagram) you wont be using the neutral leg.


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## mrmadcow (Jan 8, 2012)

wyteboi said:


> Thanks , there are a few good folks on here that work real hard to keep people from dieing when messin with electricity.
> 
> Special thanks to *big balls , brick , cow and all the people that have worked on this thread. *
> 
> ...


forgetting someone???

                  
   & Special thanks to   
   soil (former wyteboi)    
   or whatever you want   
   to call yourself   . . .


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## Thedillestpickle (Jan 8, 2012)

mrmadcow said:


> here is the type of timer I was talking about
> http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100685853/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
> 
> your heater has only 2 wires plus ground because that is all it needs.plugs have a 4th wire to add a neutral for appliances that also need 110. for example, your oven has a light int it that runs off of 110.
> as for wiring your ballast, I am not sure what the correct way is to connect to 220. I have seen the 220 wire hooked to 1 leg of the circuit and the common/neutral wire from the ballast hooked to the other leg but I have also seen the 110 to 1 leg and the 220 wire to the other leg. either way(follow your wiring diagram) you wont be using the neutral leg.


My ballast didnt come with any diagrams or anything, I dont even think there is a name written on it. Its a cheap magnetic one. 

Heres what Im thinking: The ballast has two cord plug in points for either 120 or 240, theres a cover panel that rotates to always hide one of these plug-ins so that you wont accidentally plug into the wrong one. What I will do is create a parrellel circuit with regular 120V female plug ends coming from the timer. The plug end that goes into the ballast for either 120 or 240 is the same shape and will fit into either plug, so I will use the same cord that I have now and simply plug into the female plug ends at the timer end. The only thing that can go wrong is if the prong dedicated as ground on the plug to the ballast is different for the 120V to the 240V circuit, which to me seems highly unlikely as they both use the same style of plug. I think I can assume that the same prong for both the 120 circuit and the 240 circuit are being used as ground as any other conifguration would be very counterintuitive. I hope that I explaned that alright

So I think I've got it figured out what I will do, I just have to be very carefull to never plug anything 120V into those 120V female plugs.


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## OnePercent (Jan 8, 2012)

I have a SilverStar 6" air cooled reflector with a bulb socket with a negative and positive conector, but no ground. My 600w Lumitek ballast wires are negative positive and ground, do i connect ground the the fixture itself? how do i do this without burning the house down!?

Thanks for your time.


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## oakley1984 (Jan 8, 2012)

OnePercent said:


> I have a SilverStar 6" air cooled reflector with a bulb socket with a negative and positive conector, but no ground. My 600w Lumitek ballast wires are negative positive and ground, do i connect ground the the fixture itself? how do i do this without burning the house down!?
> 
> Thanks for your time.


yes ground to fixture, theres a green screw inside the connection box where you hook the wires up (i also use silverstars)


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## Holy$mokes (Jan 8, 2012)

in my garage i have 1 outlet on the cieling, im wondering is it safe to set up my veg tent running some fluros and a fan it would be from an extension cord to a power box(with multiple outlets)

so extension cord>multiple power source>lights(1.2ft 2 bulb 1.2ft 4 bulb) and a fan, maybe a humidifier small simple set up just want to free up space in the house and just want to make sure its safe


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## LIVE2GRO (Jan 9, 2012)

heathaa said:


> people say incandescent bulbs are bad. last year i grew a sativa strain over 4 feet tall on one 75 watt incandescent bulb. turned out to be a male. but i have learned if you keep the bulb 2 to 3 inches off the plant it will grow. i have also learned with some strains to alternate between light and sun so the plant doesnt become top heavy. ive always started outside in natural sun untill veggie state and then i begin putting them on the 75 watt for over night. i have two plants one is 4 inches tall grown on sunlight and i have one 9 inches tall grown on sunlight for first 2 weeks of growth then i put it on 24 cycle of incandescent. they do work!!



first things first.. no1 said they didnt work.. they just put off more heat then they do useable light for ur plants. and just to let u know... growing male plants.. with lesss light is easy. ive seen beautiful male plants growing in woods were there was barely any light getting at them.. and then a female near it .. that was like tiny barely budding.. and stunted growth.. 

its easier for a plant to grow.. then it is for it to flower.. try to use ur incandescent bulbs.. go for it . ull waste ur time and money.. growing some garbage.. wen u could switch to CFLand get some good smoke. haha .. yes they do work .. shit.. i could hold a flash light over a plant and it would live.. but will it BUD? nah.. not at all.


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## wyteboi (Jan 9, 2012)

LIVE2GRO said:


> first things first.. no1 said they didnt work.. they just put off more heat then they do useable light for ur plants. and just to let u know... growing male plants.. with lesss light is easy. ive seen beautiful male plants growing in woods were there was barely any light getting at them.. and then a female near it .. that was like tiny barely budding.. and stunted growth..
> 
> its easier for a plant to grow.. then it is for it to flower.. try to use ur incandescent bulbs.. go for it . ull waste ur time and money.. growing some garbage.. wen u could switch to CFLand get some good smoke. haha .. yes they do work .. shit.. i could hold a flash light over a plant and it would live.. but will it BUD? nah.. not at all.


this is a lil harsh and is not in the right thread. And also its a very unknowledgable post. if a light will "grow" a plant , then it will "bud" one too. enough said. no need to debate this here.





soil


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## wyteboi (Jan 9, 2012)

Thedillestpickle said:


> My ballast didnt come with any diagrams or anything, I dont even think there is a name written on it. Its a cheap magnetic one.
> 
> Heres what Im thinking: The ballast has two cord plug in points for either 120 or 240, theres a cover panel that rotates to always hide one of these plug-ins so that you wont accidentally plug into the wrong one. What I will do is create a parrellel circuit with regular 120V female plug ends coming from the timer. The plug end that goes into the ballast for either 120 or 240 is the same shape and will fit into either plug, so I will use the same cord that I have now and simply plug into the female plug ends at the timer end. The only thing that can go wrong is if the prong dedicated as ground on the plug to the ballast is different for the 120V to the 240V circuit, which to me seems highly unlikely as they both use the same style of plug. I think I can assume that the same prong for both the 120 circuit and the 240 circuit are being used as ground as any other conifguration would be very counterintuitive. I hope that I explaned that alright
> 
> So I think I've got it figured out what I will do, I just have to be very carefull to never plug anything 120V into those 120V female plugs.


i am _assuming _your right about the wiring but assuming is not enough with electricity. its only a couple of screws.... just pull the ballast apart and make sure first ...... then if you was right , your way will work fine.






soil


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## wyteboi (Jan 9, 2012)

Holy$mokes said:


> in my garage i have 1 outlet on the cieling, im wondering is it safe to set up my veg tent running some fluros and a fan it would be from an extension cord to a power box(with multiple outlets)
> 
> so extension cord>multiple power source>lights(1.2ft 2 bulb 1.2ft 4 bulb) and a fan, maybe a humidifier small simple set up just want to free up space in the house and just want to make sure its safe


well to correctly figure out if its gonna be safe we need to know exactly whats on the circuit in the ceiling. (just because nothing is plugged into it , dont mean its not wired with other devices. )

and exactly how many watts your gonna use. and the size of the breaker/wire going to that outlet. 





soil


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## phishtank (Jan 10, 2012)

Just moved into a new house...and the breaker in the room i'll be using is only 15 amps. The house was literally just built so wondering why they didnt go with 20 amp breakers. Is it possible to change this assuming the wiring will support it?


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## mrmadcow (Jan 10, 2012)

no price difference between a 15 amp and 20 amp breaker but 12 gauge wire is alot more expensive than 14 gauge so its very likely the wiring is 14 gauge so you wont be able to use a 20 amp breaker. only reason I can think of to use a 15 amp breaker on a 12gauge wire is if the guy ran out of 20 amp breakers but had a 15 on his truck.
if you have 12 gauge wire on the entire circuit, you could upgrade


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## roidrage152 (Jan 10, 2012)

phishtank said:


> Just moved into a new house...and the breaker in the room i'll be using is only 15 amps. The house was literally just built so wondering why they didnt go with 20 amp breakers. Is it possible to change this assuming the wiring will support it?


Even in a new construction it's unlikely they used 12g wire. 14g romex on 15amp is just the building standard, it's not only cheaper it's a lot easier to work with and quicker to run.


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## chopchop83 (Jan 11, 2012)

Hi Bricktown, dont you hate it when you make a huge reply and then the browser crashes and you have to start again! 

ha OK so ........its been a few months so I'll ask the question again, this time with more detail and photos. 

I need to power up my rooms, and electrics scare the shit out of me, just need some advice on getting the power to the room, once its there I will have a power board to do the rest. 
Details - Netherlands (230v) 
Power to home 1 phase, 125 amps 
Rooms - 2x6x400watts 
Power supply needed for rooms- 33amps (13amps lights, 11 amps heater, 6 amps fans, 3 amp other) 

Fuse box = 5x16amps 

Circuits 1=kitchen lights, kitchen plus, extractor fan, fridge, microwave, balcony plug sockets, living room lights, living room plug sockets, grow room lights and plug sockets (nothing plugged in in growroom) 
2-Oven 
3-Boiler 
4- hall / bathroom / bedroom lights and plugs 
5- free On this pic below with the numbers (by the way I didnt remove/break any seals, I will be taking power AFTER the meter NOT before)
 
1- power in 
 
2- main fuse?
View attachment 1988103 
3- old fuse to heater in bathroom, cable no longer goes anywhere 
4- meter 
5-fusebox 
6-transformer no longer used 

I have a 10 meter 5x2.5mm2 cable which I am about to get from the fusebox cupboard to the room. I need advice on what I should do with the cable on the fusebox side. I think you said last time I should replace a circuit with a higher rated amp circuit? Should I pull main fuse and then work on fusebox. Can I power the room by connecting to the 5th empty circuit and another circuit? 
Im going to out to buy a clamp multimeter to see exactly what is being drawn on each circuit. thanks in advance!!!kiss-ass


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## mrmadcow (Jan 13, 2012)

Bump
Sorry but your side of the pond uses a system totally different from what I know
Hope a sparky from your side sees this


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## Thedillestpickle (Jan 13, 2012)

Hey "sparkies" haha

I got a question about slowing my fans. I have a 1 amp 175cfm 4 inch inline fan and I'm soon going to buy a 6 inch inline fan. The make is called "Stealth" not sure if you heard of them or not, cant find anything about them online cause their site is down, but it looks just like any other inline you would buy at a hydro store. And the 6 inch I will also buy from a hydro store. not sure what kindof motor they have other than AC and 120V. I want to know if I can use this variable transformer to slow them down. Also can I connect both fans to this variac and slow them both down with just the one device. Thanks http://www.iseincstore.com/291variabletransformer120vacsinglephaseinput0-132vacoutput30aopenpanelmount.aspx


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## wyteboi (Jan 14, 2012)

Thedillestpickle said:


> Hey "sparkies" haha
> 
> I got a question about slowing my fans. I have a 1 amp 175cfm 4 inch inline fan and I'm soon going to buy a 6 inch inline fan. The make is called "Stealth" not sure if you heard of them or not, cant find anything about them online cause their site is down, but it looks just like any other inline you would buy at a hydro store. And the 6 inch I will also buy from a hydro store. not sure what kindof motor they have other than AC and 120V. I want to know if I can use this variable transformer to slow them down. Also can I connect both fans to this variac and slow them both down with just the one device. Thanks http://www.iseincstore.com/291variabletransformer120vacsinglephaseinput0-132vacoutput30aopenpanelmount.aspx


this will do both devices: http://www.lowes.com/pd_48977-539-SFSQ-F-HO-BL_0__?productId=3586482&Ntt=fan+control&pl=1&currentURL=/pl__0__s?Ntt=fan+control&facetInfo=

i just quickly picked one out ..... they get way cheaper/higher then 40$. i would just use two of the 20$ or less ones. that way each fan has its own switch. 

i dont like the idea of slowing down a motor that is supposed to be getting a certain voltage, but i dont know a whole lot about those motors and plus people do it everyday with no probs, so i dont know. 



soil


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## wyteboi (Jan 14, 2012)

chopchop83 said:


> Should I pull main fuse and then work on fusebox. Can I power the room by connecting to the 5th empty circuit and another circuit?
> Im going to out to buy a clamp multimeter to see exactly what is being drawn on each circuit. thanks in advance!!!


clamp meter = very good idea !
yes pull the main fuse before working inside panel. 

if you have an empty circuit , then yes you can run a wire to that and use it. 

i dont know much about your side of the pond either , just the basics. how ever many amps it says on the fuse is how much power you have available. (general safety says to not use more then 80% of your breaker/fuse. (so you can use 8 amps on a 10 amp fuse/breaker)

see how many watts each device uses and divide that by volts (120) (1000watts divided by 120 volts = 8.33 amps.)



hope that helps .... report back to see if were on the same page.





soil


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## LT1RX7 Drifter (Jan 14, 2012)

slowing down a solid state type fan burns the brushes out from my understanding due to heat build up and added wear to the magnets and armature


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## wyteboi (Jan 14, 2012)

LT1RX7 Drifter said:


> slowing down a solid state type fan burns the brushes out from my understanding due to heat build up and added wear to the magnets and armature


thanks for sharing that drift. thats something ive always wanted to know , just not bad enough to look it up. i dont slow my shit down an cant think of a reason why anyway. 

i believe you are correct because with a furnace you *have* to have a certain amount of air coming out of it, you cant just restrict it down to one or two vents , it has to be enough to not slow the fan down much and your "understanding" confirms why.





soil


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## Thedillestpickle (Jan 14, 2012)

LT1RX7 Drifter said:


> slowing down a solid state type fan burns the brushes out from my understanding due to heat build up and added wear to the magnets and armature


Yea I have been having a hard time to find a good solution for slowing a fan down. What Ive been told is that those simple triacs will burn out a fan alot faster, Im sure alot of people are using them though. I don't really understand it but Ive been told you shouldnt really use anything that lowers the voltage to the fan. Seems like the only safe choice is a variable frequency drive, but I dont think those can be used on multiple fans and they cost so much, plus its hard to find one that has 120V input and 120V output. I think I will just go with the cheap solution here and check out it to see if its overheating, the fan also has a sensor to turn it off if it overheats. It will probably be cheap to just buy a new fan more often than buying a variable frequency drive, but then again having my fan die when I'm not home could cost me the whole crop. frustrating

I have a spare baseboard heater thermostat, perhaps I could run the power to the lights through that and set it to turn off at a very high temperature. If the fan dies while Im away the thermostat will kill 3/4 of the lights.


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## Organics101 (Jan 14, 2012)

how can i figure out how much power im running to one section of my home? I believe the power run to this portion of the house is sopposed to be used to power a full bathrooms and two maybe three bedrooms. I usually keep one room completely off so i can use the power that would of been ran to that room, in the neighboring room. Ive had experiences with power shorts usually only when i turn the vaccume on, but id also have a heater and a 55 watt air filter running at the same time so ive learned to turn things off. 

But im about to go from one 250 watt light, to two 600 watt lights, and the 250. I dont want to run multiple extension cords on one plug so i was gonna also see if there was some sort of power box unit that i can plug into an outlet that will help reduce power use. But all an all i just wanna know how to figure out the amount of power i can run to this spacific section of house, so i dont ever go over that amount. Im not sure if i should be looking at watts, hertz, ohms, ect. 

Any advice would help! Thanks


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## Thedillestpickle (Jan 14, 2012)

Organics101 said:


> how can i figure out how much power im running to one section of my home? I believe the power run to this portion of the house is sopposed to be used to power a full bathrooms and two maybe three bedrooms. I usually keep one room completely off so i can use the power that would of been ran to that room, in the neighboring room. Ive had experiences with power shorts usually only when i turn the vaccume on, but id also have a heater and a 55 watt air filter running at the same time so ive learned to turn things off.
> 
> 
> But im about to go from one 250 watt light, to two 600 watt lights, and the 250. I dont want to run multiple extension cords on one plug so i was gonna also see if there was some sort of power box unit that i can plug into an outlet that will help reduce power use. But all an all i just wanna know how to figure out the amount of power i can run to this spacific section of house, so i dont ever go over that amount. Im not sure if i should be looking at watts, hertz, ohms, ect.
> ...


Im not an electrician but I think you could go to the power box and rewire the cord that leads to the bedroom to 220V, then you can run double the wattage through that line. Most ballasts can run on either 110/220. You will only be able to use that for things that use 220V though, so youll need a second line for things that run on 110, or they make a 30$ adaptor that plugs into 220 and converts it to 110 as well so you could run the whole thing on that one line. Not an electrician though but that seems doable


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## mrmadcow (Jan 14, 2012)

Thedillestpickle said:


> ....rewire the cord that leads to the bedroom to 220V, then you can run double the wattage through that line. ....


not the way to go. it is very unlikely that a line to your bedroom feeds only 1 room so you will probably need to rewire part of the house.are you sure that line doesn't feed an attic fan? energize that w/ 220 & you have a fire. much better and safer to run a new line from your breaker box to the room.
if you convert a 110 line to 220, you wont have a neutral so your $30 adaptor won't work either.


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## mrmadcow (Jan 14, 2012)

Organics101 said:


> how can i figure out how much power im running to one section of my home? ....


start by mapping your breakers -turn 1 off at a time & see what is powered by it. add up the draw from each device to know how much power is used on each circuit.most electric appliances have a plate showing the draw.
watts devided by volts to get amps -600 watts devided by 110 = 5.5 amps
amps x volts = watts -20amps x 110 volts = 2200 watts
never use more than 80% of what a breaker is rated for 
a ballast uses more power than the bulb is rated for so your 600 watt ballast will draw about 650 if electronic or 700 watts if old style magnetic so your draw for 2 600 watt ballasts will be around 1400 or 1500 watts or 12.7 to 13.6 amps add 300 for your 250 watt light and your total will be over 16 amps. that will max out a 20 amp circuit all by itself. 
most times a breaker will not be used for just 1 room so you may have 2-3 breakers in/near that room so you could spread the load around.
a vacuum cleaner or heater will draw at least 10 amps so its easy to overload a circuit w/ either.


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## Thedillestpickle (Jan 14, 2012)

Thanks for the correction mad cow, dont want to be setting people houses on fire lol


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## Organics101 (Jan 16, 2012)

Thedillestpickle said:


> Im not an electrician but I think you could go to the power box and rewire the cord that leads to the bedroom to 220V, then you can run double the wattage through that line. Most ballasts can run on either 110/220. You will only be able to use that for things that use 220V though, so youll need a second line for things that run on 110, or they make a 30$ adaptor that plugs into 220 and converts it to 110 as well so you could run the whole thing on that one line. Not an electrician though but that seems doable


Oh i gotcha that does make sense. I would have to figure out eleectricity work an how inwould run that. I have a reletively large home so o know i can run a decent amount of power to my room. I just cant have to many thing rumming at once or illl overload the circuit and have to reset it


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jan 16, 2012)

could someone with electrical qualifications answer a question i have please .......i have an old 'big' tv , that im planning on stripping out and using as a stealthy micro grow case , thing is ive heard i can be killed opening up a telly because of a static charge that it holds , is this true ? and if it is how do i go about making it safe ? the telly hasnt been plugged in for months .
thanks for any help .


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## mrmadcow (Jan 16, 2012)

old TVs have several capacitors in them like the 1 in a HPS ballast.I dont think they will hold a charge for months but to be safe, wear rubber gloves when gutting it. you are looking for a metal can anywhere in size from a D battery to a large soup can with 2 wire terminals. w/out touching anything w/ your hand, short the 2 terminals w/ a screwdriver. if it still has a charge,it will spark.
as a 2nd thought, after opening the back,throw a bucket of water inside.you be dry & wear rubber soled shoes. that should short out anything sill holding a charge. let dry and yank out the guts.
b4 trying the water, give it a day to see if anyone slams this advice. they may have a better way.


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## Meangreenfarmingmachines (Jan 16, 2012)

Awsome!! 

Ok, so im gonna grow in an appartment building, its a 3 bedroom place iv got with my frend, and we are gonna use the free bedroom as a grow space.

We are using a grow tent from Secret jardin, the DR240W wich is 8x4x7. 

We got a couple questions:

1. The outlets in the room have a maximum wattage of 1875w... is that for evrey individual outlet, meaning we can put 1875w on the first, 1875w on the secound and so on, or is that for the hole room circuit, meaning the combination of the 4 outlets in that room can not excede 1875w?

2. We made sure to get a place were we are the ones paying the electrical bill evrey month. We were wondering if the the landlorad still gets a record of the electrical usage of his units?


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## mrmadcow (Jan 17, 2012)

same question is asked & answered here
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/503576-appartment-growing-electrical-questions-thx.html#post6945236


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## LT1RX7 Drifter (Jan 26, 2012)

love the bucket of water method of tv gutting lol sound like sound addvice to me hell use the hose


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## roidrage152 (Jan 26, 2012)

1.) I'm curious where you got the 1875w number from. In the US at 110v, 1875w would pull 17 amps. Would would be a little high in my opinion if you happened to have a 20 amp breaker. Standard breakers are 15 amp only, so I wouldnt want to go over 1300w or so in that case. 

If you happened to be on a 220v line outside the states, thats 8.5 amps. Too high for a 10 amp breaker, or leaves room on a 20 amp breaker for more.

The maximum watts you can use is based on the amperage limit on the circuit. In general every outlet in a single room would be on the same circle. Plug something in each outlet that makes a light or sound, and flip the breaker to see. 

Lets assume you are in the states on a standard 15 circuit. You could put up to about 1300 watts of equipment on a standard 15 amp breaker. If you need more, and all the outlets in your room are on the same circuit, you will be in a situation of needing extension cords from another room, which is in general safe, but another can of worms if the distance is far. You also have to make sure you use the appropriate thickness cord because it can be a major fire hazard.

2.) There would be no reason your landlord would see the electric bills, even if you didn't pay them. At least where I'm from electric bills stick with the person. If you bailed on the bill and moved, its on your personal credit, and they would never even go after the landlord for it. Only water/sewage here is tied to the address. The bills go to the residence name if they changed it, but if you move away or something, whoever owns the place would be responsible for it. Even if your landlord did happen to see it, who cares you could blame it on space heaters/AC unit or something, not that it will ever come up. I have a cheap space heater than by itself runs 1500w. 



Meangreenfarmingmachines said:


> Awsome!!
> 
> Ok, so im gonna grow in an appartment building, its a 3 bedroom place iv got with my frend, and we are gonna use the free bedroom as a grow space.
> 
> ...


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## mrmadcow (Jan 26, 2012)

LOL should have added to leave unplugged.
I figured after a drenching, anything that would hold a charge would short out.


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## Don007206 (Feb 2, 2012)

Bro you have just saved me I am new to growing and I want to hook up my garage for a 3 tent grow . 2 2000 watt tents on movers 2 digital 2 old school ballast for flower. 1 1000 mh tent for veg I have a newer home 4 years old 2400 sf I want to use my garage can you run down what I'll need to do cost est and how to word it my hydro shop has a guy . the thing is i am going to sell in a few months so can I take it with me or should I just weight for my new home to go bigger. If you could run some options by me that would be grate. Thank you for helping a noob


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## mrmadcow (Feb 2, 2012)

it will depend on how hard it is to get a wire from your breaker box to the garage. subfeed cable will run $1-2 a foot and the rest of the materials under $100 plus timer. you could have a 30 or 50 amp 220 outlet for a welder installed and buy/make a controller to take with you.
something like this
http://www.horticulturesource.com/ph-ec-tds-meters-test-kits-for-water-soil-timers-instruments-calibration-solutions-c35/timers-lighting-controllers-s118/ecoplus-30-amp-timer-box-comes-with-ecoplus-digital-timer-734105-p1969/?osCsid=5ac484c85887251cee2955f8b65e73b4


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## FrankieJ23 (Feb 2, 2012)

Don't know who is answering questions as i see bricktown hasn't logged in for a while.

Question is i am going to using 3 400W HPS'S w/ ballast's and cpu 80MM fans mounted to cool the blubs, Also going to be using a 600W HPS also fanned, Most likely a 8" inline to draw air in and a 6" to draw air out and a 4" as a scrubber. My question is what fuse would be good to use and if i could split it up i would much rather have 3 15Amp going instead of having to install an entire new box since that will raise questions...


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## Danielsgb (Feb 2, 2012)

FrankieJ23 said:


> Don't know who is answering questions as i see bricktown hasn't logged in for a while.
> 
> Question is i am going to using 3 400W HPS'S w/ ballast's and cpu 80MM fans mounted to cool the blubs, Also going to be using a 600W HPS also fanned, Most likely a 8" inline to draw air in and a 6" to draw air out and a 4" as a scrubber. My question is what fuse would be good to use and if i could split it up i would much rather have 3 15Amp going instead of having to install an entire new box since that will raise questions...


Here's IAm5toned's chart. Assuming non-digital ballasts. So three 400w=1320w + 660w=1980w but you need to see how much the fans & extra stuff. Like pumps if hydro. So you can see a 15 amp breaker is 1440w, & 3 400w use 1320w so one 15 amp circuit is OK for 3 but NO more.
Hope this helps and gets you started.


*common continuous duty grow operation wattages based on voltage, with breaker and wire sizes. all wire sizes are based on thwn-2/thhn Cu conductors with a max run of 300'
 breaker size----volts------ max wattage allowed ----smallest wire size allowed 


15 amp breaker @ 120v = 1440w(12 amps actual) max = #14 awg Cu wire, min
 20 amp breaker @ 120v = 1920w(16 amps actual) max = #12 awg Cu wire, min
 30 amp breaker @ 120v = 2880w(24 amps actual) max = #10 awg Cu wire, min
 40 amp breaker @ 120v = 3840w(32 amps actual) max = #8 awg Cu wire, min
 60 amp breaker @ 120v = 5760w(48 amps actual) max = #6 awg Cu wire, min
 100 amp breaker @ 120v = 9600w(80 amps actual) max = #3 awg Cu wire, min


15 amp breaker @ 240v = 2880w(12 amps actual) max = #14 awg Cu wire, min
 20 amp breaker @ 240v = 3840w(16 amps actual) max = #12 awg Cu wire, min
 30 amp breaker @ 240v = 5760w(24 amps actual) max = #10 awg Cu wire, min
 40 amp breaker @ 240v = 7680w(32 amps actual) max = #8 awg Cu wire, min
 60 amp breaker @ 240v = 11520w(48 amps actual) max = #6 awg Cu wire, min
100 amp breaker @ 240v= 19200w(80 amps actual) max = #3 awg Cu wire, min
*


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## Jelly Pepper (Feb 2, 2012)

is it true that a 600w hid puts out just about as much light as a 1000w hid and is more economical to run?


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## oakley1984 (Feb 2, 2012)

Jelly Pepper said:


> is it true that a 600w hid puts out just about as much light as a 1000w hid and is more economical to run?


kind of.

what IS true, is a 600w hps has a higher lumen per watt rating than any other HID bulb... this means a more efficient use of electricity, at the end of the day 1000w hid is always brighter and makes more buds.
but 2x600w can be used in place of a 1000w hid for only a ~20% increase in power, and get a 50% increase in light.


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## Jelly Pepper (Feb 2, 2012)

thanks oak, so running 2 600w would be like 1500w?


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## oakley1984 (Feb 2, 2012)

Jelly Pepper said:


> thanks oak, so running 2 600w would be like 1500w?


no, it would be 1200w lol


with a 1000w hps bulb. on avg its about 140,000 lumens = 140 lumens per watt
with a 600w hps bulb, on avg its about 95,000 lumens = 158 lumens per watt


there is ALOT to learn about light, asking questions like that really isnt going to set you on the right path, i suggest reading about PAR, color spectroms and light formulas.


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## Jelly Pepper (Feb 2, 2012)

thanks for the help oak, i will read par and color spectroms and light formulas.


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## saxman3212000 (Feb 4, 2012)

hooking up lighting in "Series", creates a voltage DROP. Each light will only have 25% of power going to it. Thus running @ a 75% loss per light. Parrellel keeps the power the same to EVERY light. Good luck.


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## Jar Man (Feb 4, 2012)

oakley1984 said:


> no, it would be 1200w lol
> 
> 
> with a 1000w hps bulb. on avg its about 140,000 lumens = 140 lumens per watt
> ...


So many make the same mistake with their lumen output calcs. 95,000 total lumens doesn't somehow provide double the amount of actual lumens because there are two bulbs. The bottom line is those bulbs are still only producing 95,000 total lumens each. Two bulbs only seems to make it brighter because there's more light distribution.


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## warrengjustice747 (Feb 4, 2012)

Jar Man said:


> So many make the same mistake with their lumen output calcs. 95,000 total lumens doesn't somehow provide double the amount of actual lumens because there are two bulbs. The bottom line is those bulbs are still only producing 95,000 total lumens each. Two bulbs only seems to make it brighter because there's more light distribution.


hey you seem to know what your talkin about can you check out my growbox thread its like 2 treads down in the growroom setup and design thread.


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## Thedillestpickle (Feb 7, 2012)

Hello, I'm just wondering if anyone can give me a rough idea of how many watts this dehumidifier uses?
It's made by woods, and its obviously a slightly older model, no idea how old exactly. It doesnt say anything anywhere on it but has a the number 18 in one corner. I'm not sure if that means it removes 18 pints of water in 24 hours or if that means it has an 18 pint container. If it's only able to remove 18 pints in 24 hours than I would guess it doesnt use that many watts

I included a picture of the sticker on the fan moter, just to give an idea of what size dehumidifier it is, but I have no idea how much power the compressor uses.

I'm just trying to get a rough idea how much power it uses, if I need to dedicate an entire line to this one dehumidifier or if I could run a 600watt HID on the same line(15amp) or not


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## grobofotwanky (Feb 7, 2012)

92 watts. Just a guess though


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## Thedillestpickle (Feb 7, 2012)

grobofotwanky said:


> 92 watts. Just a guess though


lol the fan burns 92 watts alone! The compressor no doubt uses alot more than the fan.
If I can't get an answer/educated guess, I will just have to assume that it burns 1500watts and play it safe running on its own breaker. I wouldn't even know where to begin to guess


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## grobofotwanky (Feb 8, 2012)

lol. I would think it would draw somewhere between 5-7 amps.


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## wyteboi (Feb 12, 2012)

Thedillestpickle said:


> lol the fan burns 92 watts alone! The compressor no doubt uses alot more than the fan.
> If I can't get an answer/educated guess, I will just have to assume that it burns 1500watts and play it safe running on its own breaker. I wouldn't even know where to begin to guess


it says .8 amps right on the sticker. 92 watts was not just a guess, that is correct. 



soil


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## 08GSXR600 (Feb 12, 2012)

I always trip the fuse box.. my question is how to increase my room by 1000w without tripping the fuse?


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## wyteboi (Feb 12, 2012)

Jar Man said:


> So many make the same mistake with their lumen output calcs. 95,000 total lumens doesn't somehow provide double the amount of actual lumens because there are two bulbs. The bottom line is those bulbs are still only producing 95,000 total lumens each. Two bulbs only seems to make it brighter because there's more light distribution.


what are you sayin ? 

95 + 95 = 190, 000 lumens. of course two bulbs have double the output of one. 




soil


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## wyteboi (Feb 12, 2012)

08GSXR600 said:


> I always trip the fuse box.. my question is how to increase my room by 1000w without tripping the fuse?


run a separate circuit from your room to the box on a 15 amp breaker. (14g wire) that will give you an uniterupted 1200 watts extra. 

if thats not an option then you are gonna have to plug things in to a different circuit to keep it from tripping. 

check each circuit by turning the breaker off , then run around the house an see what does not work. all that stuff is on one circuit. now turn that breaker back on an turn another one off an see what dont work. do that until you find some free space.




soil


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## 08GSXR600 (Feb 12, 2012)

Damn ok. Thanks. Not really a problem to run an extension cord to another circuit but I was trying to increase the load capacity of that circuit. I don't know anything about electricity other than it hurts . I see people running 6-8k rooms and curious how they power it. I just want 2k


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## sfttailpaul (Feb 12, 2012)

wyteboi said:


> it says .8 amps right on the sticker. 92 watts was not just a guess, that is correct.
> 
> 
> 
> soil


Yep indeed! "Volts times Amps equal Watts", s-o-o-o-o 115 (volts) X .8 (amps)= 92 (watts).


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## phillipchristian (Feb 12, 2012)

wyteboi said:


> it says .8 amps right on the sticker. 92 watts was not just a guess, that is correct.
> 
> 
> 
> soil


Actually you are wrong Wyteboi. That picture is a picture of the fan like Thedillestpickle said. That sticker is only for the rating of the fan. There isn't a dehumidifier in the world that only runs on .8amps or 92watts. You may have gotten the calculation close but if you had any knowledge of real electrical you would have known your answer was wrong in a heartbeat.

Judging from the size of it I would think you are safe assuming it's 1000 watts.


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## phillipchristian (Feb 12, 2012)

sfttailpaul said:


> Yep indeed! "Volts times Amps equal Watts", s-o-o-o-o 115 (volts) X .8 (amps)= 92 (watts).


This is a thread for people who are looking for help from liscensed electricians or people who actually know what they are talking about. If you guys don't know for sure then don't go telling people crap just so you can act like you know it all. You're gonna burn someone's house down.


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## fishwhistle (Feb 12, 2012)

thanks for clueing me in madcow


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## mrmadcow (Feb 12, 2012)

Thedillestpickle said:


> lol the fan burns 92 watts alone! The compressor no doubt uses alot more than the fan.
> If I can't get an answer/educated guess, I will just have to assume that it burns 1500watts and play it safe running on its own breaker. I wouldn't even know where to begin to guess


you are correct that it will draw more. UL requires a label on every electric devise showing its current draw. if the tag is gone from the back of the unit, you might be able to find a tag on the compressor. add it to the draw from the fan to get your total.I would guess from the size of it, you will be about 10 amps.




phillipchristian said:


> This is a thread for people who are looking for help from liscensed electricians or people who actually know what they are talking about. If you guys don't know for sure then don't go telling people crap just so you can act like you know it all. You're gonna burn someone's house down.


while you are correct this time, Wyteboi is a regular around here & often helps out people.just read a few pages of this thread.it was a simple mistake. no need to be a dick about it.


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## mrmadcow (Feb 12, 2012)

fishwhistle said:


> Any input you have would be great i dont have anyone to run it by besides reading it out of a book or online,THANKS BROTHER,FW


bricktown hasn't been here for a while but others have filled in for him.
it sounds like you have the 110 stuff down.I would run a dedicated 110,20 amp line for the t5s.
for the 220 lines,romex will work fine.12 gauge(12/3) will work for a 20 amp circuit but you will need 10/3 romex(10 gauge 3 conductor +ground) for up to a 30 amp circuit. it wont hurt to run 10/3 for all the 220 circuits to save buying 25 feet of 12/3 and 150 of 10/3. just dont run smaller than 10 gauge for any circuits over 20 amps
as for the lights on a flip/flop circuit, are you running 4 1k ballasts that flip from 1 light to the other or 8 ballasts that have 4 powered and flip to the other 4? reason I ask is that if you are running 4 ballasts, most manufacturers recomend an hr a day cool off time for the ballast. running them 24/7 will shorten their life.


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## phillipchristian (Feb 12, 2012)

mrmadcow said:


> you are correct that it will draw more. UL requires a label on every electric devise showing its current draw. if the tag is gone from the back of the unit, you might be able to find a tag on the compressor. add it to the draw from the fan to get your total.I would guess from the size of it, you will be about 10 amps.
> 
> 
> 
> while you are correct this time, Wyteboi is a regular around here & often helps out people.just read a few pages of this thread.it was a simple mistake. no need to be a dick about it.


I think we all appreciate the help that so many people give on this forum. I have used it many times for advice and I've also given out plenty of advice. The problem is MrMadCow that we aren't talking about what ballasts to use or how to veg your plants. This is a thread about electricity. If you don't know what you are talking about you can burn someone's house down or worse get someone killed. If you aren't experienced enough in the matter to realize no dehumidifier runs on 92watts then you shouldn't be giving advice like Wyteboi did on the subject let alone coming back and trying to claim you are correct when someone else has already proven that you are wrong. I am an electrician and this stuff is dangerous. It doesn't matter how many times you have helped people on this forum or how long you've been around; someone could have gotten hurt with Wyteboi's advice and that's not cool. The fact of the matter is that anyone with a basic knowledge of electricity could have spotted that from a mile away which leads me to believe that Wyteboi doesn't have a basic knowledge and shouldn't be commenting or acting like he knows what he's talking about.


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## mrmadcow (Feb 12, 2012)

I will stand by my statement, telling someone to use a penny for a fuse or just swapping to a bigger breaker is dangerous & could cause a fire & would deserve your response.I have chewed out people for stupid shit like that but in this case,the worst that could happen is a popped circuit breaker so I still think you are being a DICK! now why dont you piss off before you drive away a valued member of this community.
Bricktop now lurks & doesn't particpate often because he got tired of dealing w/ dicks, are you trying to do the same to another valued member? try a little civility,people won't respect you otherwise.


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## phillipchristian (Feb 12, 2012)

mrmadcow said:


> I will stand by my statement, telling someone to use a penny for a fuse or just swapping to a bigger breaker is dangerous & could cause a fire & would deserve your response.I have chewed out people for stupid shit like that but in this case,the worst that could happen is a popped circuit breaker so I still think you are being a DICK! now why dont you piss off before you drive away a valued member of this community.
> Bricktop now lurks & doesn't particpate often because he got tired of dealing w/ dicks, are you trying to do the same to another valued member? try a little civility,people won't respect you otherwise.



Why don't you go away assclown. It would have been one thing to claim to know something but then to come back after you are proven wrong and still claim that you are right is pure stupidity. No one really cares what you think about the moral issue or my edicate. People are looking for solid advice and an open discussion with informed persons. Of which you are neither. If I piss of someone who is giving out wrong information then so what. Plus; if you knew shit about electricity you would know that the worst thing that could happen with that advice is not a blown fuse or tripped breaker. They could have used an undersized cable which would overheat and then start a fire. So, if you don't like the way I word my threads and responses or you just don't like me no one really cares. Go ask some of the people that I have helped or taken the time to actually talk to on the phone for a few hours and walk them through installations. Just cause you have nothing better to do then trove this forum trying to pick fights with people on the web doesn't mean I give 2 shits what you think. Go buy yourself a clue pal.


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## fishwhistle (Feb 12, 2012)

madcow thanks for cluing me in about bricktop and thanks for the advice,i will use the bigger wire for all 240 connections.


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## ZoeO (Feb 13, 2012)

Wow... nice set up you've made...
I'm an amateur in this and have some questions 4 u :
Can I use a cheap light-dimmer for an air-extractor (320/800m3/hr) to reduce noise?
Can I use a 600w Hps with a 400w starter?

Thanks for your advice
Zoe from Paris


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## roidrage152 (Feb 13, 2012)

The dimmers actually do work for fans, but they are only reccomended for the fast start kind. If you have the slow start kind it actually will reduce the life of the fan. For about 20 bucks you can get a rotor speed controller and that works on fans as well, but same issue with reduced fan life for the slow start kinds. I do personally actually use one sometimes though. If you are worried about noise, a carbon filter on one end and duct on the other quiets even my loudest cheapest fans. 

In regard to using a 600w bulb on a 400w starter, its definitely not reccomended. It might work, but I doubt you would get any better light out of the bigger bulb.


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## wyteboi (Feb 14, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Actually you are wrong Wyteboi. That picture is a picture of the fan like Thedillestpickle said. That sticker is only for the rating of the fan. There isn't a dehumidifier in the world that only runs on .8amps or 92watts. You may have gotten the calculation close but if you had any knowledge of real electrical you would have known your answer was wrong in a heartbeat.


ok your right fuck . are you serious? i will admit to reading the sticker right an not putting 2 an 2 together. i should have paid more attention to the post before agreeing on the 90 watts. 

i will firmly admit to under reading , something i never do. 
my mistake has nothing to do with my knowledge. i am an electrician , i am not licensed and if your from the states you know why. it was a simple mistake an the second you called me out i seen what i did wrong. no big deal. 



phillipchristian said:


> This is a thread for people who are looking for help from liscensed electricians or people who actually know what they are talking about. If you guys don't know for sure then don't go telling people crap just so you can act like you know it all. You're gonna burn someone's house down.


then this guy simply states volts x amps = watts , an he dont know what hes talkin bout either ? if you cant agree with that statement , you are not qualified to be in my thread.
an if you cant handle a mistake by a bunch of potheads then your are not in the right place. this is rollitup , queen of kids like yourself. 

If your not man enough to just say hey soil you made a mistake then why are you here? i wouldnt have argued facts , i would have said thank you for pointin out my fuck up. now your just goin on the list of rollitup babies. oh an dont call me names no more either. thats un called for. 






soil


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## wyteboi (Feb 14, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Why don't you go away assclown. It would have been one thing to claim to know something but then to come back after you are proven wrong and still claim that you are right is pure stupidity. No one really cares what you think about the moral issue or my edicate. People are looking for solid advice and an open discussion with informed persons. Of which you are neither. If I piss of someone who is giving out wrong information then so what. Plus; if you knew shit about electricity you would know that the worst thing that could happen with that advice is not a blown fuse or tripped breaker. They could have used an undersized cable which would overheat and then start a fire. So, if you don't like the way I word my threads and responses or you just don't like me no one really cares. Go ask some of the people that I have helped or taken the time to actually talk to on the phone for a few hours and walk them through installations. Just cause you have nothing better to do then trove this forum trying to pick fights with people on the web doesn't mean I give 2 shits what you think. Go buy yourself a clue pal.


look you piece of shit, you called out the mistake. what is all the name callin an hate for ? read the fuckin thread , i never tried to say you was wrong , no one did. cow even went as far as to say you were right? when im wrong im wrong , i wont argue with that. and i didnt. 

you found a mistake in a post *I* made , but then you went on to call 2 other people names because of it. then you claim none of us has any knowledge because *I* made a simple mistake. thats plain childish. an you know it. 

if you get that upset because someone made a mistake you got issues none of us can help you with. 


if you want to help then help an keep your mouth out of it. 




soil


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## phillipchristian (Feb 14, 2012)

wyteboi said:


> look you piece of shit, you called out the mistake. what is all the name callin an hate for ? read the fuckin thread , i never tried to say you was wrong , no one did. cow even went as far as to say you were right? when im wrong im wrong , i wont argue with that. and i didnt.
> 
> you found a mistake in a post *I* made , but then you went on to call 2 other people names because of it. then you claim none of us has any knowledge because *I* made a simple mistake. thats plain childish. an you know it.
> 
> ...


First off Wyteboi, when did I call you a name? Show me where in that first post I called you a name. And the only reason I started with MadCow was cause he started to with me for absolutely no reason. That's why the two posts are seperate. The first one you quoted (my first post on the thread) was simply stating that you were wrong. The only reason that I said that about "knowing about electricity" was because after that guy stated you were wrong and that it ws a picture of the fan you came right back and told him that you were right.

Now show me 2 people I have called names? I called MadCow an ass clown cause he's off rambling about how I need to go away. You wanna get in the middle of my argument with him go right ahead. What are you, his mother? 

Yes I am from the U.S. No I don't understand how you can be an electrician but not be certified.

No I didn't get upset when I posted those first 2 comments. I was just stating that you were wrong in the first one and then stating something general that was not directed at you in the second one. Maybe you should go read them again.

I'm not getting in a pissing contest with you two guys over a fucking online forum designed to help people. You guys are idiots. Go start shit with someone who cares.


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## alphawolf.hack (Feb 14, 2012)

yo ma let it go wyteboi has been here for years and knows his shit about electric. just let it go. if i was to trust anyone's electrical advice it would be his and this is where i would come to get.


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## phillipchristian (Feb 14, 2012)

alphawolf.hack said:


> yo ma let it go wyteboi has been here for years and knows his shit about electric. just let it go. if i was to trust anyone's electrical advice it would be his and this is where i would come to get.


Doesn't matter if you've been here for 10 years or for 1. An idiot is an idiot.

Good thing it wasn't you that asked about the dehu then...would have wired your room wrong and maybe fried your unit.


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## 08GSXR600 (Feb 14, 2012)

How can one have so much hate on a site like this?? When the hippy community is at arms.. the terrorists won.


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## wyteboi (Feb 14, 2012)

alphawolf.hack said:


> yo ma let it go wyteboi has been here for years and knows his shit about electric. just let it go. if i was to trust anyone's electrical advice it would be his and this is where i would come to get.


again ... just let it go. 

everyone makes mistakes including you. 

you asked me , how could i be an electrician without a license, you said nothing about being certified. i am the same kind of electrician as you are , one without a masters license. 

i am here to help , i made a mistake , and i am still gonna be here to help. WE have successfully hooked up many rooms/devices on this thread. no one has been hurt ..... if a mistake is made then hopefully the next man would catch it , just like you did. i am positive cow would not have let him run speaker wire to a humidifier. 

no matter if i made a mistake , i still know my shit and will continue to help. if you wanna play games like this we can start another thread an run my knowledge against yours, but this aint the place for it.





soil


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## phillipchristian (Feb 14, 2012)

wyteboi said:


> again ... just let it go.
> 
> everyone makes mistakes including you.
> 
> ...


Fair enough. I was never trying to start anything with you. Just didn't understand why Cow felt like he needed to get involved and then tell me to go away after all I did was correct a simple mistake you made. He's the one who jumped all over me first.


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## alphawolf.hack (Feb 14, 2012)

didnt read this page looks like wyteboi had the same things to say as me.


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## skippyredman (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks sooo much for this thread. If there is anything that scares me in this world, it is fire  I have been a lurker here for some time now gaining all the knowledge i could. Came out with 2 nice flavors last season but it was not enuf to last the year. so this year is going to be good

The question i have for you is..... I am building a new clone box to get the babies nice and healthy b4 they make the transfer outside. I have a 3 socket bathroom fixture and will be running CFL's. I have a broken 3 wire extension cord and have no clue what wire is what or how to go about testing. It has blue, green and brown wires and my fixture has white,black and the naked ground. how can i get this to work safely?
Many thanks in advance.


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## alphawolf.hack (Feb 14, 2012)

get a 10$ tester a lowes. green is probably ground, blue is live and brown is neutral. blue to white, brown to black, and green to ground. thats the best guess without testing wires.


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## skippyredman (Feb 14, 2012)

can i use my multimeter while the cord is plagged in or is that on the lines of unsafe?
Thanks for the quick reply!


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## alphawolf.hack (Feb 14, 2012)

im not sure i understand what your saying. if you have the tester, one prong will go on live wire and the other on the neutral or ground and you will get a reading.you can leave stuff plugged in or wired up and test for electricity just make sure you can do it safely. remember to turn off the breaker b4 hooking any thing up to the wires.


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## wyteboi (Feb 15, 2012)

skippyredman said:


> can i use my multimeter while the cord is plagged in or is that on the lines of unsafe?
> Thanks for the quick reply!


yes you can just be very careful to not let any of the wires touch. if you do bump into one you'll be fine , you bump into two you'll know it.
your meter wont tell you the difference between the neutral and the ground , but it will tell you which one is "live" or "hot". 
me and hack both agree the ground is probably the green wire, so that will go to the bare wire. then the hot wire will go to the black and the leftover one goes to the neutral. (white)





soil


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## wyteboi (Feb 15, 2012)

skippyredman said:


> can i use my multimeter while the cord is plagged in or is that on the lines of unsafe?
> Thanks for the quick reply!


what country are you in ? you runnin off 240 volts or 110 ?



soil


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## wysong (Feb 17, 2012)

I have a weird situation that maybe hasn't been asked before.concerning a Digital ballast.In the same location ,although another room / floor.I'll be running a 5 HP Rotary Phase Converter RFC ,along with a few Variable Frequency Drives VFDalong with a 10 KVA 600/220 Dry 3 Phase Transformer .I used to run a ol magnetic 1000 MH,400 HPS , with No problems, but that was back in the days of true 600/3 into the building ,and one 600 V machine.Then stepping down to 208/3, then grabbing my 220 and 120 off the 208.Those ol systems are too big for my new local ,and I'm thinking of replacingwith a Digital ballast , the Lumatek dail 400/250.Anyone have a like wise experience/ knowledge on this subject.
Fore see any problems with the ballast affecting either the VFD or RFC, or vise versa




Thanks


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## mrmadcow (Feb 17, 2012)

skippyredman said:


> can i use my multimeter while the cord is plagged in or is that on the lines of unsafe?
> Thanks for the quick reply!


you can test live but it would be easier to set the meter to an ohms scale and check continuity from the wire to the plug. 
the light fixture has blk &white so it sounds like its for N.America(110 volts) but the cord is brown,blue & green so it sounds European(220v) cant help much w/out knowing where you are.


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## mrmadcow (Feb 17, 2012)

wysong said:


> ....I'll be running a 5 HP Rotary Phase Converter RFC ,along with a few Variable Frequency Drives VFDalong with a 10 KVA 600/220 Dry 3 Phase Transformer .....


besides a 400 watt ballast,what the fuck are you running in that room that needs this? 
what is the question? don't you have any outlets?
not trying to be a dick,just dont understand what you need answers for.


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## 808dank (Feb 17, 2012)

So i have a quick question I'm having trouble sifting through to find an answer for. I have an outside shed that has no power to it at the moment. I am going to be running a 1000w hps for the flower room and a 400w hps for veg. Also three inline fans and two oscillating fans (haven't purchased yet so don't know wattage). 

I have seen some responses tell people just to run power from elsewhere rather than try and run power and install a breaker themselves in the room. I have basic electrical experience...ie running romex for sockets, can lights, etc... but don't really know much about the breaker box. Ideally what I think I want is to have two 15amp circuits dedicated to the shed. One would run the 1000w, the other would run the 400w and misc fans, etc. How could I go about setting this up? I'm assuming I have to run a wire that gets power from before the circuit breaker to my house, and then install a mini breaker box with two 15amp fuses in the shed, but I don't know how to do this. Or like I said before, I've seen suggestions that say it would be easier just to run extension cords from the house (would like to try and avoid though) 

any links/suggestions appreciated


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## oakley1984 (Feb 17, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Doesn't matter if you've been here for 10 years or for 1. An idiot is an idiot.
> 
> Good thing it wasn't you that asked about the dehu then...would have wired your room wrong and maybe fried your unit.


do yourself a favor and shutup, you dont like the advice given, thats fine... continue with your attitude like it is and ill personally see to it you're banned from this site.

Grow Up.


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## roidrage152 (Feb 17, 2012)

808dank said:


> So i have a quick question I'm having trouble sifting through to find an answer for. I have an outside shed that has no power to it at the moment. I am going to be running a 1000w hps for the flower room and a 400w hps for veg. Also three inline fans and two oscillating fans (haven't purchased yet so don't know wattage).
> 
> I have seen some responses tell people just to run power from elsewhere rather than try and run power and install a breaker themselves in the room. I have basic electrical experience...ie running romex for sockets, can lights, etc... but don't really know much about the breaker box. Ideally what I think I want is to have two 15amp circuits dedicated to the shed. One would run the 1000w, the other would run the 400w and misc fans, etc. How could I go about setting this up? I'm assuming I have to run a wire that gets power from before the circuit breaker to my house, and then install a mini breaker box with two 15amp fuses in the shed, but I don't know how to do this. Or like I said before, I've seen suggestions that say it would be easier just to run extension cords from the house (would like to try and avoid though)
> 
> any links/suggestions appreciated


It would require some research on the type of cable you are allowed to bury outdoors. If you are doing a subpanel, there is no reason not to send more amps there than 30 total. You definitely want to leave room for expansion. Consider if you will want a dehum or AC in there later, as well as possibly ugrading to bigger lights. Keep in mind the high gauge wire needed as well as the quality needed to run under ground will be pretty pricy. Don't quote me on these numbers but 6g romex i think capable for about 50 amps for 25 feet of wire is over $100. I imagine outdoor/bury rated stuff will be quite a bit more.


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## 808dank (Feb 17, 2012)

roidrage152 said:


> It would require some research on the type of cable you are allowed to bury outdoors. If you are doing a subpanel, there is no reason not to send more amps there than 30 total. You definitely want to leave room for expansion. Consider if you will want a dehum or AC in there later, as well as possibly ugrading to bigger lights. Keep in mind the high gauge wire needed as well as the quality needed to run under ground will be pretty pricy. Don't quote me on these numbers but 6g romex i think capable for about 50 amps for 25 feet of wire is over $100. I imagine outdoor/bury rated stuff will be quite a bit more.


Well the run is only about 20 feet from the power source, and it would be in some sort of conduit/pvc...whatever it needs. I'm more worried about just figuring out the logistics in opening up the circuits necessary to run the shed. Right now I don't think I have any "unused" breakers...so in theory I could isolate which outlets are on which breaker and try and run power from two of the breakers that aren't really being used, but this theory seems unlikely to work out. I'm thinking I need to add at least 30 amps of "new" power to the existing breaker board.


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## phillipchristian (Feb 17, 2012)

oakley1984 said:


> do yourself a favor and shutup, you dont like the advice given, thats fine... continue with your attitude like it is and ill personally see to it you're banned from this site.
> 
> Grow Up.


Who are you toolbag! What makes you think I care what your opinion is? Funny how me, MadCow, and Wyteboi squashed it and moved on but your peanut gallery, idiotic ass comes in a week later to add your 2 cents. Quit trying to start shit on the internet. You must be one of those clowns that thinks he's an internet toughguy. Go fall off a cliff loser.

I'd love to see you have me thrown off this site. Do it. You think you have power but in reality your living in your parents basement with a 2L of Coke and a bag of Doritos trolling over forums acting like a self appointed thread police. I'm laughing my ass off at you right now. Little bitch!


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## oakley1984 (Feb 17, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Who are you toolbag! What makes you think I care what your opinion is? Funny how me, MadCow, and Wyteboi squashed it and moved on but your peanut gallery, idiotic ass comes in a week later to add your 2 cents. Quit trying to start shit on the internet. You must be one of those clowns that thinks he's an internet toughguy. Go fall off a cliff loser.
> 
> I'd love to see you have me thrown off this site. Do it. You think you have power but in reality your living in your parents basement with a 2L of Coke and a bag of Doritos trolling over forums acting like a self appointed thread police. I'm laughing my ass off at you right now. Little bitch!


reported for abusive behavior.

buh bye.


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## phillipchristian (Feb 17, 2012)

808dank said:


> Well the run is only about 20 feet from the power source, and it would be in some sort of conduit/pvc...whatever it needs. I'm more worried about just figuring out the logistics in opening up the circuits necessary to run the shed. Right now I don't think I have any "unused" breakers...so in theory I could isolate which outlets are on which breaker and try and run power from two of the breakers that aren't really being used, but this theory seems unlikely to work out. I'm thinking I need to add at least 30 amps of "new" power to the existing breaker board.


Most panels are designed to have a few extra spaces at least. No one usually fills them up unless it is a sub panel. Maybe you have spaces on the panel but they are not popped out on the panel cover. Take off your panel cover and look directly at your board and you'll see if you have spaces. You probably do. If not then you need to probably call an electrician to rewire some stuff in your house.

If you do have space all you have to do is connect a 50amp (240v) breaker to the panel. Wire it to your sub panel using conduit like you said and you are set. I would definitely leave some extra room like Roid said. You never know what your're gonna need in the future. Your gonna need 2 positives and your ground to come from your main panel. Make the wires different colors so you don't get confused.

Or just call an electrician and have it all done in an hour by a pro.


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## phillipchristian (Feb 17, 2012)

oakley1984 said:


> reported for abusive behavior.
> 
> buh bye.


I'm still here toll!


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## oakley1984 (Feb 17, 2012)

183 posts later and you still present yourself as a child...
no rep, no likes.... its pretty obvious no one here cares what you say.
hell, im pretty sure the majority of people here, simply tolerate you and ignore what you say as its just easier than dealing with someone who is incapable of an intellectual reply, I have yet to see a single post from you that deviates from this name calling pattern you seem to have going here on RIU. Personally I believe this forum needs a higher class of grower, people who can get along and point out others errors in a way that doesnt resort to trying to belittle someone else because of a simple oversight. Just Go Away.


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## phillipchristian (Feb 17, 2012)

oakley1984 said:


> 183 posts later and you still present yourself as a child...
> no rep, no likes.... its pretty obvious no one here cares what you say.
> hell, im pretty sure the majority of people here, simply tolerate you and ignore what you say as its just easier than dealing with someone who is incapable of an intellectual reply, I have yet to see a single post from you that deviates from this name calling pattern you seem to have going here on RIU. Personally I believe this forum needs a higher class of grower, people who can get along and point out others errors in a way that doesnt resort to trying to belittle someone else because of a simple oversight. Just Go Away.


*TROLL ALERT!!! TROLL ALERT!!!!
*
I thought you were getting me kicked out of here? What happened? 

You might want to go over those posts again buddy. I have +Rep and Likes. Not that I really care. You're an idiot! GO AWAY TROLL!!


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## phillipchristian (Feb 17, 2012)

oakley1984 said:


> 183 posts later and you still present yourself as a child...
> no rep, no likes.... its pretty obvious no one here cares what you say.
> hell, im pretty sure the majority of people here, simply tolerate you and ignore what you say as its just easier than dealing with someone who is incapable of an intellectual reply, I have yet to see a single post from you that deviates from this name calling pattern you seem to have going here on RIU. Personally I believe this forum needs a higher class of grower, people who can get along and point out others errors in a way that doesnt resort to trying to belittle someone else because of a simple oversight. Just Go Away.


What kind of looser comes in after a week and tries to get in the middle of an argument between two ther members that was already squashed?

Anyone?

*TROLLS!!!*


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## 0calli (Feb 17, 2012)

You make yourself look no better responding like that and calling names 

so everybody just chill smoke a bowl its been quashed let build again shall we


phillipchristian said:


> who are you toolbag! What makes you think i care what your opinion is? Funny how me, madcow, and wyteboi squashed it and moved on but your peanut gallery, idiotic ass comes in a week later to add your 2 cents. Quit trying to start shit on the internet. You must be one of those clowns that thinks he's an internet toughguy. Go fall off a cliff loser.
> 
> I'd love to see you have me thrown off this site. Do it. You think you have power but in reality your living in your parents basement with a 2l of coke and a bag of doritos trolling over forums acting like a self appointed thread police. I'm laughing my ass off at you right now. Little bitch!


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## phillipchristian (Feb 17, 2012)

0calli said:


> You make yourself look no better responding like that and calling names
> 
> so everybody just chill smoke a bowl its been quashed let build again shall we


I am all for it. Go look at my past post to Mad Cow. We squashed it. But who is this guy to come in a week later and stalk talking trash that he's gonna get me kicked off this site. Sorry if my language offended anyone but I just can't stand people like him. He had nothing to do with what was going on and decided to butt in after the people who were involved had already dropped it. That's just trying to start shit.


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## 0calli (Feb 17, 2012)

i do think we can all agree move forward 

i hate seeing these fights on riu yes ive had my own but its just not worth it when i know both of you are intelligent individuals with lots to offer lets get that shit on the boards instead of what is no good to new growers 

peace guys


phillipchristian said:


> I am all for it. Go look at my past post to Mad Cow. We squashed it. But who is this guy to come in a week later and stalk talking trash that he's gonna get me kicked off this site. Sorry if my language offended anyone but I just can't stand people like him. He had nothing to do with what was going on and decided to butt in after the people who were involved had already dropped it. That's just trying to start shit.


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## alphawolf.hack (Feb 17, 2012)

can we get back to electricity?

anyways i have an odd question has anyone ever seen an electrical arc between 2 magnets?(is that possible?)


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## 0calli (Feb 17, 2012)

i was just making peace so it stoped excuse me for doing that for the thread


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## phillipchristian (Feb 17, 2012)

0calli said:


> i do think we can all agree move forward
> 
> i hate seeing these fights on riu yes ive had my own but its just not worth it when i know both of you are intelligent individuals with lots to offer lets get that shit on the boards instead of what is no good to new growers
> 
> peace guys


Fair enough 0calli. Thanks for being a peacekeeper. Forums couldn't survive without em.


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## oakley1984 (Feb 17, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Fair enough 0calli. Thanks for being a peacekeeper. Forums couldn't survive without em.


*laughs*

asshole, meet asshole

(im referring to us... asshole)


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## phillipchristian (Feb 17, 2012)

oakley1984 said:


> *laughs*
> 
> asshole, meet asshole
> 
> (im referring to us... asshole)


no one cares anymore. nor de we have any idea what your rambling about.


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## mrmadcow (Feb 17, 2012)

808dank said:


> ... I have an outside shed that has no power to it at the moment...
> ... but don't really know much about the breaker box. Ideally what I think I want is to have two 15amp circuits dedicated to the shed. ....
> any links/suggestions appreciated


if you can wire an outlet,adding a breaker or 2 should not be to hard.
look at your panel box,are there any knockouts to add more breakers? (a picture would help). if not they make a breaker that gives you 2 15 or 20 amp breakers in the same space as a normal single breaker. something like this
http://www.lowes.com/pd_94694-82364-BR2020_0__?productId=1114211&Ntt=circuit+breakers&pl=1&currentURL=/pl__0__s?Ntt=circuit+breakers&facetInfo=
I would think 2 15-20 amp circuits would be the cheapest way to go & can't imagine a need for much more since we are talking about a shed & not garage, you can run pvc & fill it w/ THHN type wire or just use a direct burial romex like this.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_70034-295-13056723_4294760936__?productId=3129309&Ntt=romex&pl=1&currentURL=/pl_300_4294760936__s?Ntt=romex&facetInfo=30.0
personnally, I would probably go w/ 10/3 romex from your panel to a splicebox in the shed but you could add a subpanel in the shed to allow for future expansion. post back w/ more details & 1 of us can help based on which way you want to go.


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## phillipchristian (Feb 17, 2012)

May want to go a little higher though on those breakers. Like Roid said you don't know if you are gonna need a dehumdifier or a/c later on out there. Will only cost you a few extra dollars to use a larger breaker (say two 30amps) . Plus it's cheaper to oversize it now then have to come back later and rip it out.


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## 808dank (Feb 17, 2012)

mrmadcow said:


> if you can wire an outlet,adding a breaker or 2 should not be to hard.
> look at your panel box,are there any knockouts to add more breakers? (a picture would help). if not they make a breaker that gives you 2 15 or 20 amp breakers in the same space as a normal single breaker. something like this
> http://www.lowes.com/pd_94694-82364-BR2020_0__?productId=1114211&Ntt=circuit+breakers&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dcircuit%2Bbreakers&facetInfo=
> I would think 2 15-20 amp circuits would be the cheapest way to go & can't imagine a need for much more since we are talking about a shed & not garage, you can run pvc & fill it w/ THHN type wire or just use a direct burial romex like this.
> ...


 So I looked at my panel and it's got room for 24 "poles", all of which are filled. I haven't taken the cover off to see if there are any extra slots, but I would doubt it as it says right on there 24 pole maximum, and there are 24 filled with no space for any knockouts. I looked at the link for the breaker that you sent. In the box I have three 15amp breakers, each of which is a double switch. Then there are three 20amp breakers, each double switched. Then six 50amp (30/20) 240v breakers. Is there something that can take power from one of those double 15amp breakers (or 20) and turn it into four breakers? It looked to me like that link you sent wouldn't work unless it was a single switch, or it had an empty space.


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## 808dank (Feb 17, 2012)

personnally, I would probably go w/ 10/3 romex from your panel to a splicebox in the shed but you could add a subpanel in the shed to allow for future expansion. post back w/ more details & 1 of us can help based on which way you want to go.[/QUOTE]

If I were to go this route do I still need to add another breaker on the existing board? Or does this involve running romex from the box into the shed, and then into a splicebox in the shed that contains the breakers? If that is possible it sounds like that would be the easiest way. I could run the wire from the existing board and put a box in the shed with 2 20amp breakers...is that how it would work? Thanks for the help


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## phillipchristian (Feb 17, 2012)

Any way that you do it you are going to have to get new breakers on that board. You need to create space on the board so that you can place at least 1 240v breaker on the panel to supply power to a sub panel in the shed. Obviously all the breakers that are on the board are being used to power things that are in your house so you can't eliminate them. What you can do is combine them though. You need to find the smallest breakers that are on the board. Find 2 15amp double pole breakers that are side by side. Test them to see what they are controlling in the house. Figure out how many amps are loaded on each of those circuits. Add 25% to that number. Cut the main power to your breaker panel. Remove the cover and then remove those 2 breakers. Twist their wires together or create a pigtail and put them in to a breaker that is rated for that load. Put that breaker back on your board. Now you have 1 space available. Put a 50amp 240v breaker in that spcae. Run your romex or thhn to the subpanel or splice box in your shed. Split to the load between two 30amp breakers. You're good to go.


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## 808dank (Feb 17, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Any way that you do it you are going to have to get new breakers on that board. You need to create space on the board so that you can place at least 1 240v breaker on the panel to supply power to a sub panel in the shed. Obviously all the breakers that are on the board are being used to power things that are in your house so you can't eliminate them. What you can do is combine them though. You need to find the smallest breakers that are on the board. Find 2 15amp double pole breakers that are side by side. Test them to see what they are controlling in the house. Figure out how many amps are loaded on each of those circuits. Add 25% to that number. Cut the main power to your breaker panel. Remove the cover and then remove those 2 breakers. Twist their wires together or create a pigtail and put them in to a breaker that is rated for that load. Put that breaker back on your board. Now you have 1 space available. Put a 50amp 240v breaker in that spcae. Run your romex or thhn to the subpanel or splice box in your shed. Split to the load between two 30amp breakers. You're good to go.


So like I said I have three 15amp double pole breakers, two of which are side by side. Two of those combined is 60amps total. If I were to take both of them out and connect the wires together into one 20amp double pole breaker that gives me 40amps, which should hopefully be enough to handle whatever is on there (general household stuff in the bedrooms, tv's, computers, etc..) no way it's over 80% of 40 amps. Then I could put a second 20 amp double pole breaker in the other slot. When I connect the second breaker (whether it be a 20amp double pole breaker or a 240v breaker) what do I wire that too? If I've already taken the existing two wires from both breakers and twisted them together into one breaker do I just pigtail off of that or something? Hopefully it would be obvious once I open up the circuit board.


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## phillipchristian (Feb 17, 2012)

See if you can get a 30 amp tandem breaker for your house stuff just to be safe. Then when you put the new tandem breaker in you can just wire it directly to 2 outlets in the shed. If you put a 240v breaker in then you would wire that to a subpanel in the shed and then from the breakers on the sub panel to outlets in the shed. If it's only 20 feet then just wire it directly to 2 outlets.


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## wysong (Feb 19, 2012)

mrmadcow said:


> besides a 400 watt ballast,what the fuck are you running in that room that needs this?
> what is the question? don't you have any outlets?
> not trying to be a dick,just dont understand what you need answers for.


All the 3 phase power requirement is for woodworking equipment in the basement 
VFD's are bad on RF inteference to begin with , that I've witnessed.
They will be in the basement ,used very little. 

But I'll be having to run the RFC almost all the time as most oft
he equipment is 600,480,220 three phase.

I've been reading up on the RF problems with the earlier Digital Ballast designs.
I live in one of those 5 unit town houses, my next door neighbour TV/cable
could only be 6 ft away from where I want/have to mount the Digital ballast.

will the ballast be affected by the VFD / RFC

Looking to see if anyone had any experience in this area.


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## cuzogucci19 (May 4, 2012)

I have Two 600w hps on one breaker and a couple of ceiling fans. Breaker worked for month straight now trips all the time. How could I make this work. I have no other sockets to use as they are being used by other appliances. Maybe going from 15amp to 20amp? Or maybe Rewiring to get a little bit more power to room? Any help would be great! Thanks


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## nuglets (May 5, 2012)

cuzogucci19 said:


> I have Two 600w hps on one breaker and a couple of ceiling fans. Breaker worked for month straight now trips all the time. How could I make this work. I have no other sockets to use as they are being used by other appliances. Maybe going from 15amp to 20amp? Or maybe Rewiring to get a little bit more power to room? Any help would be great! Thanks


Make sure the existing wiring in the wall from the breaker to the outlet is at least 14 gauge. If it is all you will to do is change the breaker for a 20 amp one. If not then use the wire in the wall to pull 12 gauge wire through and hook up a 30 amp breaker to give you some extra juice.


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## budleydoright (May 5, 2012)

808dank said:


> So like I said I have three 15amp double pole breakers, two of which are side by side. Two of those combined is 60amps total. If I were to take both of them out and connect the wires together into one 20amp double pole breaker that gives me 40amps, which should hopefully be enough to handle whatever is on there (general household stuff in the bedrooms, tv's, computers, etc..) no way it's over 80% of 40 amps. Then I could put a second 20 amp double pole breaker in the other slot. When I connect the second breaker (whether it be a 20amp double pole breaker or a 240v breaker) what do I wire that too? If I've already taken the existing two wires from both breakers and twisted them together into one breaker do I just pigtail off of that or something? Hopefully it would be obvious once I open up the circuit board.


Rather than mess with your wiring like that. Why don't you see if you can get half space breakers, which is 2-15 amp breakers that only take up one space. I have a 2 space breaker that has 2 220v for a total of 4 breakers. I broke the bond between the 2 30 amps breakers and run those to my 110v ballasts, the 220v 20A is used for my 18k windowshaker AC. I'm pretty confident that most brands make them. 
While combining circuits isn't absolutely going to cause you problems, it is absolutely bypassing part a what should be a well engineered system designed to be pretty much idiot proof.

A breaker panel can be like a checking account, it can be real easy to write more checks than you have $ to cover. Be carefull.


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## nuglets (May 5, 2012)

budleydoright said:


> Rather than mess with your wiring like that. Why don't you see if you can get half space breakers, which is 2-15 amp breakers that only take up one space. I have a 2 space breaker that has 2 220v for a total of 4 breakers. I broke the bond between the 2 30 amps breakers and run those to my 110v ballasts, the 220v 20A is used for my 18k windowshaker AC. I'm pretty confident that most brands make them.
> While combining circuits isn't absolutely going to cause you problems, it is absolutely bypassing part a what should be a well engineered system designed to be pretty much idiot proof.
> 
> A breaker panel can be like a checking account, it can be real easy to write more checks than you have $ to cover. Be carefull.


think that post was from 3 months ago. also, i think they were talking about half sapce breakers. isn't that what they mean by the tandem breakers?


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## budleydoright (May 5, 2012)

good hash!


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## nuglets (May 5, 2012)

budleydoright said:


> good hash!


lmao! i love hash.


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## CanniCastro420 (May 8, 2012)

Hi bricktown,

I was hoping to answer some electrical questions for me. I'm planning on running a 3 x 6 flood and drain with 1200-1800w of light. My house currently has 100A service. I have 2 slots on my panel that are free and have another that is only attached to an outdoor outlet. I wanted to have a sub-panel dedicated for the room. In your opinion, what is the max amps I should have in sub-panel. I am also considering running A/C (8,000-12000 btu's) in the room until I can run a water cooled system. I'm not an "electrical" guy, but my intuition says I should stick to no more than 40A sub panel.


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## nuglets (May 8, 2012)

CanniCastro420 said:


> Hi bricktown,
> 
> I was hoping to answer some electrical questions for me. I'm planning on running a 3 x 6 flood and drain with 1200-1800w of light. My house currently has 100A service. I have 2 slots on my panel that are free and have another that is only attached to an outdoor outlet. I wanted to have a sub-panel dedicated for the room. In your opinion, what is the max amps I should have in sub-panel. I am also considering running A/C (8,000-12000 btu's) in the room until I can run a water cooled system. I'm not an "electrical" guy, but my intuition says I should stick to no more than 40A sub panel.


a lot is gonna depend on the draw in your house while the lights are on. i mean you only have a 100amp service. so if you go trying to pull 25-30amps when the house a/c's are on and the hot water heater is running and you've got a big stereo and tv going then you might have some problems. need to figure out what you are normally drawing on your loadcenter at peak. get a multimeter and use that to test your draw when you have the normal electrical stuff running (i.e. tv's, a/c, heater, etc...). if you are wiring this from scratch then go with 240v ballasts if you can. would reduce your amperage draw in half for those 2-3 lights.


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## CanniCastro420 (May 8, 2012)

My buddy is coming by my house to do the test later in the wk. In the meantime, this same buddy says since i have 3 free slots on my panel, to just take two slots and fill it with, say a 60A breaker,then run sub-panel to 60A breaker. I don't have a/c for house (live in NE part of country), and hot water comes from my oil heat furnace. I did plan on run the light circuit on 240v tho.


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## nuglets (May 8, 2012)

CanniCastro420 said:


> My buddy is coming by my house to do the test later in the wk. In the meantime, this same buddy says since i have 3 free slots on my panel, to just take two slots and fill it with, say a 60A breaker,then run sub-panel to 60A breaker. I don't have a/c for house (live in NE part of country), and hot water comes from my oil heat furnace. I did plan on run the light circuit on 240v tho.


if you are running your lights at 240v then 60amps would be a waste. get a 40amp subpanel and that will be more than enough. running 1,800w at 240v pulls about 8amps. that would leave you safely 24amps on a 40amp panel after the lights were accounted for. more than enough.


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## CanniCastro420 (May 8, 2012)

nuglets said:


> if you are running your lights at 240v then 60amps would be a waste. get a 40amp subpanel and that will be more than enough. running 1,800w at 240v pulls about 8amps. that would leave you safely 24amps on a 40amp panel after the lights were accounted for. more than enough.


Nice. More than enough left over to supplement room with a/c. Room will be 11' x 6'-7 1/2" x 7'. Figured use small a/c 8,000 btu's window unit. until I can go water cooled, anyways. When I do go water cooled, I planned on burying a 55-75 gallon rez about 3 ' or so. Ground temps in my area stay @ around 55 degrees at that depth. In theory, shouldn't need a chiller. So the inline pump would be the next big energy drawer. But even with that being said, I should have have plenty of options.


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## nuglets (May 8, 2012)

CanniCastro420 said:


> Nice. more than enough left over to supplement room with A/C. Room will be 11' x 6'-7 1/2" x 7'. Figured use small a/c 8,000 btu's window unit. until I can go water cooled, anyways. When I do go water cooled, I won't be using a chiller, (going geo-thermal route) so the inline pump would be the next big energy drawer. But even with that being said, I should have have plenty of options.


you'll be more than fine. especially if water cooling allows you to eliminate the a/c unit. with those portable a/c units you might need a dehumidifier too. not sure what you environment is like. just that a/c units only dehumidify when they are running. during the dark cycle if they do not run very oftern then you will have humidity spikes which can lead to a bunch of problems. an 8,000btu a/c on 120v will only pull about 9amps so even with that and the 3 lights you'll still only be pulling half the recommended limit of 32amps off the subpanel. you'll have plenty of additional draw if need be.

good luck man. water cooling is awesome. i run a 2hp chiller. just bought a 5hp self contained. getting it delivered in a few weeks.


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## nucleo (May 9, 2012)

Is the electrician still in the house?

I'm going to build my own led panel. Just wondering what else i would need? So far iv'e come to needing a circuit board, resistors for every led, the diodes themselves, i'm a bit troubled by how to attach a heatsink plate to the circuit board then the heatsink behind with the cpu fan on top. There will be no housing to it because this will take even more time. I'm just not sure on what else i'd need to wire it up? Don't worry about the electricity side to it, i will find someone eventually if i burn out so many board but most of all i'm doing this for fun... So what would i need to make my own LED light panel?


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## bfb1999 (May 10, 2012)

Hey Bricktown thanks for taking the time to help out.I have a set up in a basement room and have used all the available power and need to run two more 1000w hps and a few other goodies(brewstation,osc. fans).can i add a fuse into my box and just run from my breaker box to the room ?I am very thankful for your suggestions.


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## Living The Dream (May 10, 2012)

bfb1999 said:


> Hey Bricktown thanks for taking the time to help out.I have a set up in a basement room and have used all the available power and need to run two more 1000w hps and a few other goodies(brewstation,osc. fans).can i add a fuse into my box and just run from my breaker box to the room ?I am very thankful for your suggestions.


you just need to make sure that you have enough available draw on your panel. you most likely have enough room but if you are in an older house with a 100amp service then maybe not. or if you have a pool and jacuzzi and a bunch of other equipment that draws a lot of power then you may wanna check out what your electrical draw is with a multi meter.

if you are straight then you can run additional circuits to that room on a new breaker(s). my suggestion would be to run a subpanel to the room. would be a little more expensive but much more efficient. you could save a little money on the installation by running your ballasts 240v. that way you would only need a 20-30amp 240v breaker and subpanel. plus a smaller gauge wire. might save you $50.

good luck man.


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## bazookajoe (May 31, 2012)

Is it possible to seperate bulb n socket from ballast on a "bay" light??


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## budleydoright (May 31, 2012)

Yes, I believe there;s thread on this site or one of the others with a nice DIY.


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## coben (Jun 17, 2012)

Hello I'm interested in building a shed 20' x 16'. I'm thinking 3 ton split a/c,and 10 600 watts or 10 1000 watts plus all the randomness. My existing house has a 100 amp panel and its full. Id like two 20 amp 120v circuits for randomness. A 50 amp 240v circuit for lights and a 50 amp for the a/c.thats 140 amps.??? My question is do I have to upgrade the existing panel to 300-400 amp before I do it???And how much money do you think I should have set aside for the electrician?


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 17, 2012)

coben said:


> Hello I'm interested in building a shed 20' x 16'. I'm thinking 3 ton split a/c,and 10 600 watts or 10 1000 watts plus all the randomness. My existing house has a 100 amp panel and its full. Id like two 20 amp 120v circuits for randomness. A 50 amp 240v circuit for lights and a 50 amp for the a/c.thats 140 amps.??? My question is do I have to upgrade the existing panel to 300-400 amp before I do it???And how much money do you think I should have set aside for the electrician?


6000w at 240v would pull 25amps and 10,000w at 240v would pull 42amps. you need to oversize the breaker by 20-25%. so for 6000w you would get a 40amp breaker and for 10,000w a 60amp breaker. chances are you will need more than 2 120v circuits. also, a 3 ton minisplit will probably be wired 240v and wouldn't use near 50amps. probably somewhere around 15amps on a 25-30amp breaker. 

if you have a 100amp service in your house they just aren't going to give you another meter or a 400amp service which is 3 phase power. what you will most likely have to do is get your house service upgraded to 200-250amp service. then pull a 125amp subpanel off that service for your shed. it's almost impossible to guess what that will cost but it's gonna be a few thousand to have everything wired up. it just really depends on your current panel, the distance to your shed from your panel now, and how much the utility company is willing to cover. usually the utility company will install the new meter and even run the upgraded cable from that meter to your house junction box or breaker panel. everything after that will have to be installed by your electrician on your dime. would need a lot more info to figure out a rough cost though.


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## 711grower (Jun 17, 2012)

i am not sure if this has been answered before but can you put a 1000 watt magnetic hps ballast in the attic area. i am trying to keep heat out of the grow room and i have easy access to the attic. a few holes in the ceiling dry wall and i can run all the plugs where i need them. thanks


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 17, 2012)

711grower said:


> i am not sure if this has been answered before but can you put a 1000 watt magnetic hps ballast in the attic area. i am trying to keep heat out of the grow room and i have easy access to the attic. a few holes in the ceiling dry wall and i can run all the plugs where i need them. thanks


i don't see why not. that's why most ballasts come with long light cords...so you can keep them out of the grow room. if your attic is hot just put a small fan up there to blow on it. like all electronics, ballasts run more efficient and will last longer when they run at cooler temps. good luck.


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## chunkylonin (Jun 18, 2012)

Ive asked around on this site for awhile but no one could or would answear,so this is my last resort.I want to wire a powerstrip to a relay to run my pumps off of,does anyone have any write ups or any info oin this,I would really appericate the help.


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## polyarcturus (Jun 18, 2012)

say what so when the pumps go off something else come on? 


the way you are phrasing it sounds like you just need a timer, what do your need a "relay" for and what do you mean by it?


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## sticky420scissors (Jun 18, 2012)

Roughly how much should it cost an electrician to install 3 20 amp and 1 30amp circuits with the material. The box is roughly 40 feet away from where i need them.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 18, 2012)

sticky420scissors said:


> Roughly how much should it cost an electrician to install 3 20 amp and 1 30amp circuits with the material. The box is roughly 40 feet away from where i need them.


$50-$100 in materials depending on how he hides the wiring. maybe another $150-$250 for labor. i don't know what your electrician charges. i have a buddy who charges $75 an hour so i'm going based on that.


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## chunkylonin (Jun 18, 2012)

polyarcturus said:


> say what so when the pumps go off something else come on?
> 
> 
> the way you are phrasing it sounds like you just need a timer, what do your need a "relay" for and what do you mean by it?


,,Sorry I thought it was common knowelege,I need to wire a power strip to a relay,the relay helps so that when you run 4 water pumps on a powerstrip pluged into a timer ,it dosent kill your timer.


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## sticky420scissors (Jun 19, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> $50-$100 in materials depending on how he hides the wiring. maybe another $150-$250 for labor. i don't know what your electrician charges. i have a buddy who charges $75 an hour so i'm going based on that.


Well i dont have a electrician just yet. Im just wondering about what this will cost. I want it done to code. thanks Scooby.


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## m4ster (Jun 23, 2012)

Hi, and thank you for this thread!

simple question here...: I have a panel outside labeled 100amp max wich have 2 breaker on it (1x240V 15amp and 1x120V 15amp). The power come from my main pannel and its wired on 2x50amp breaker.

Can I add another 15amp breaker(120V) to the 100amp panel? 

How does this work basicly? Do 2x50amp breaker equal 100amp? regardless its on 120v or 240v? Do the label on panel mean the total maximum of the panel(ever)or the maximum load THIS setup can take??


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## H R Puff N Stuff (Jun 23, 2012)

you can add as many breakers as the panel will hold a 100 amp panel will supply 100 amps to however many curcuits you have its whats using that power and from what curcuit that matters so lets say you have a 50 amp breaker for an ac/ wich draws 35amps when running the breaker doesnt use the power it allows that much power to pass through it anything over it trips.so you need to do an elec. load calculation to know for sure but you should be able to add the breakers if there is room and a 240 must have 2 hot legs so it will be a dbl. 15 or 20 amp breaker.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 23, 2012)

m4ster said:


> Hi, and thank you for this thread!
> 
> simple question here...: I have a panel outside labeled 100amp max wich have 2 breaker on it (1x240V 15amp and 1x120V 15amp). The power come from my main pannel and its wired on 2x50amp breaker.
> 
> ...


you will be fine adding a 15amp breaker at 120v. your subpanel has 50amps available at 240v and/or 100amps available at 120v.


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## H R Puff N Stuff (Jun 23, 2012)

oh and to answer the question no a dbl. 50 amp breaker can pull 50 amps from each leg.


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## m4ster (Jun 23, 2012)

Thanks 

I guess if the panel is labeled 100amp, the wire gauge that relays the panels should go with it?


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 23, 2012)

m4ster said:


> Thanks
> 
> I guess if the panel is labeled 100amp, the wire gauge that relays the panels should go with it?


you shouldn't worry to much about what the panel is rated for. i have 200amp panels at my house that only have 120amps feeding them. you should check the wire size leading to the subpanel just to make sure though. i didn't think of that and it's a good point. it should be #8 or bigger. in wire size...bigger means smaller number. #6 is bigger than #8. it should say on the wire somewhere either #6, 6 gauge, or 6awg.


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## WeeGogs (Jun 23, 2012)

hi, i by passed my meter for my lights, and hid it well, i paid for my electricity for the rest of the house, which was a grow house anyway but i used to put the electric water heater on daily and tv, kettles, lights etc to use power to make it look like a normal home occupation, you can pay the electric as a pay as you use it through a key system, i installed a consumer unit with mcb`s and i installed all double rcd sockets to protect the equipment and myself. the meter guy used to come and read the meter and then leave, i used to shut it off for 20 mins before i new he was due, the property ran like this for about 18 months and then the house got broken into and all the plants, skunk, and 4 but nearly 5 figure sum in cash was stolen, plus 66 ounces of wrapped skunk, the police responded to a report of a burglary and went to the premises to check it, when i got there later that night there was 4 police cars and 2 police vans so i legged it.
i hid for 2 days and then i called them, i was taken in and questioned to which i replied no comment to all questions, they had nothing on me as the lot was nicked but charged me anyway with cultivation as the equipment was still set up and running, they found the bypass because when they turned off the main power to leave the property, the fans and lights etc all kept running, the electric company then arrived to disconnect it all. i got a letter from the prosecutor stating i do not have to got to court now as there is not enough evidence for a cultivation trial. the electric company have said nothing and that was in feb this year and they have brushed it all under the carpet, i am now trying to get all my equipment back as the.police had confiscated most of it although the idiots missed £300 worth of nutrients, boosters, medicines, acids etc, i salvaged two ballasts a couple of large aeroponic propagators and a few bits and pieces from the property which was wrecked during the break in and i had 3 brand new laptops in there too. 
anyway i do not know why there was not a theft of electric power charge but i am assuming it is because it was being paid for the rest of the house and they either dont want any one to know how i did it, or they maybe can`t prove how much power was actually stolen, i mean if a judge asks "how much power did he steal" they can`t say "i dont know" can they. 
or can they!


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## stickystank (Jun 23, 2012)

i have a question for the electricians of roll it up...

I have a 1000w quantum ballast for a 1000w digilux hps bulb and it keeps tripping the gfi outlet, even if fired up at 500w. but at the same time i can start up a 600w mh in the same outlet. all the outlets in the room are connected to this one gfi, and i can run many other things off those outlets while the 600w mh is running. my question to you guys, is there a way to bypass, remove, change the gfi outlet in order to run the 1000w hps? i assume it's because the ballast needs a large amount of energy to spark the bulb and its tripping the gfi outlet. since they are all connected in the room to this one gfi, will removing this single outlet and replacing with a regular one fix this issue? I've thought about running 1 or 2 400w ceramic mh instead of the 1000hps, but also not sure if they together would trip it too...


any suggestions? i can post more info if necessary


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## H R Puff N Stuff (Jun 23, 2012)

yes it will fix the issue unless you are drawing to much power for the breaker or the 1000watt quantum ballast is defective.


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## stickystank (Jun 23, 2012)

H R Puff N Stuff said:


> yes it will fix the issue unless you are drawing to much power for the breaker or the 1000watt quantum ballast is defective.




just replacing the gfi with a regular outlet? it's not the whole circuit since the whole room trips off it? hmm, is it easy to replace? i dont have a soldering iron but can replicate diagrams and match wires if that's all it is


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## stickystank (Jun 23, 2012)

the ballast is relatively new and ran at the last place fine, so i doubt its defective


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## H R Puff N Stuff (Jun 24, 2012)

a gfci plug can be removed pretty easy match wires from gfci to new outlet black on one side ,white on the other and ground on green screw but now the other plugs will not be protected by the gfci.and do yourself a favor and turn power off at panel so you can work without shocking yourself or causing a short.


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## bluntmassa1 (Jun 25, 2012)

is it really inportant to have a 4 prong outlet for a 240v cause I have a three prong I plan on running 4 600w ballasts I'm looking at some of the light controlers at dxsoundco.com I'm interested in a few of them but I heard the three prongs whern't safe they sell one with an option for three prong its the one on the bottom of page but should I just install a four prong,hard wire it to the system or is the three prong safe these are all options with this unit I almost think it would be safer just to hardwire the light controlers plus I think it would be best to get one of their more expensive ones that don't come in three prong


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## budleydoright (Jun 27, 2012)

3 prong is fine for 220. If you want to break it out to 110 then a 4 wire is nice. I run 3 wire on mine and break into 110 breaking a few rules along the way.

Get a book on basic wiring and read it in about 1 hour and you will know this stuff.


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## CanniCastro420 (Jul 4, 2012)

what gauge romex do I need to wire a 240v circuit for my ballasts?


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jul 4, 2012)

CanniCastro420 said:


> what gauge romex do I need to wire a 240v circuit for my ballasts?


depends on the size of the ballasts and how many you are using on that circuit.


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## CanniCastro420 (Jul 6, 2012)

I plan on running 3 600w ballasts.


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## eyeswideopen (Jul 7, 2012)

600's at 240v only pull 2.5 amps each. 2.5x3 lights is 7.5 amps so 14/2 plus a ground is all you need and a 15 amp two pole breaker. 

However, if you ever plan on expanding, I'd recommend wiring with 10/2 and a 30 amp breaker, which can handle up to 4 x 1000 watt lights, and the cost difference will be slim.


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## joe macclennan (Jul 24, 2012)

ok i've got a ? on power consumption. Someone told me I can save on my power bill by using step up transformers going from 120 to 240v to run my 1000watters. I already have 220v via 10/3 romex off of a 40amp dbl pull to my room. but I have split it up and am running my lights on 120 for now. ( I am not sure how to rewire my ballasts for 220) So my ? is it more efficient to run my lights directly off the 220 or can I save on my power bill by adding a step up transformer to each leg of the 220 enabling me to run my lights at 220 off of one 110v leg each. I am planning on running 4-1000 watters although currently I am only running 2-1000's If this is possible what size transformers should I look at?


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## Zdeezy (Jul 25, 2012)

How would i go about blocking RF noise from my ballast? Every time my lights turn on my cable and internet go out. 2x 600w digital greenhouse and 3x 1000w digital greenhouse ballast. Thanks!!


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## KT420 (Jul 25, 2012)

Zdeezy said:


> How would i go about blocking RF noise from my ballast? Every time my lights turn on my cable and internet go out. 2x 600w digital greenhouse and 3x 1000w digital greenhouse ballast. Thanks!!


Sell the POS Greenhouse ballasts and get Lumatek or Galaxy ballasts.
Read this guys horror story.
http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-marijuana-growing/347312-my-digital-ballast-caused-widespread-net-outage.html

*O M F G!!


You are not gonna believe the night i just had!

I had been running the light in a socket in the attic but i was using an adapter that goes from 3 prongs ( ground ) to 2 prongs ( no ground ) and i thought maybe just maybe that had something to do w/ the bulbs blowing.. So i change outlets and plugged the ballast into a NORMAL GROUNDED ( 3 prong ) wall outlet in the living room and just ran a heavy duty extension cord ( same cord i have always used ) into my closet. At 2 am I see flashing lights outside and seen a flashlight going into my back yard. Now, our internet has been out all night ( since i plugged up the 600w digital ballast ) but i didnt think anything of it.there was a cable repair truck in front of my house ( 2 AM )and a repairman walking from behind my house so i ask whats wrong and he says..

"something in your home is causing RF feedback on the line and is causing the ENTIRE AREA's internet/cable to be out." I had to disable an outlet untill someone can get here tomorrow to come in and see whats causing it"

OK needless to say I TOTALLY FREAKED OUT and bagged up all my plants and immediately drove and disposed of them and came back and totally dismantled my grow area and got rid of EVERYTHING that has anything to do w/ growing.

I SERIOUSLY caution ANYONE thats thinking about buying a "digital greenhouse 600W digital ballast from HTG to not do so..I used it the correct way ( in a normal 3 plug grounded socket ) tonight and it caused internet/cable outages in my enttire area!!! Over 1000 homes he said.

Im still nervous as hell cuz I dont know wtf im gonna tell the cable ppl when they come and inspect to see what was causing it.

I am so fucking shocked by all this.. I cannot believe what just happened. 



*


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## KT420 (Jul 25, 2012)

eyeswideopen said:


> 600's at 240v only pull 2.5 amps each. 2.5x3 lights is 7.5 amps so 14/2 plus a ground is all you need and a 15 amp two pole breaker.
> 
> However, if you ever plan on expanding, I'd recommend wiring with 10/2 and a 30 amp breaker, which can handle up to 4 x 1000 watt lights, and the cost difference will be slim.


I'd always recommend pulling 3 wire so you can provide 120v service as well. 



joe macclennan said:


> ok i've got a ? on power consumption. Someone told me I can save on my power bill by using step up transformers going from 120 to 240v to run my 1000watters. I already have 220v via 10/3 romex off of a 40amp dbl pull to my room. but I have split it up and am running my lights on 120 for now. ( I am not sure how to rewire my ballasts for 220) So my ? is it more efficient to run my lights directly off the 220 or can I save on my power bill by adding a step up transformer to each leg of the 220 enabling me to run my lights at 220 off of one 110v leg each. I am planning on running 4-1000 watters although currently I am only running 2-1000's If this is possible what size transformers should I look at?


Have you looked into how much a step up transformer would cost??? Let alone 1 for each leg? forget this idea. Your 40a "dbl pull" on 10/3 is scarey enough, 10/3 is only good for 30a, and 220v ballasts would only be 2-3% more efficient anyway. Be careful.


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## OmNomEdibles (Jul 25, 2012)

so i have 3 different outlets available in my garage where my tent is, all coming off of 120 v and then the infamous dryer plug which is 220 but i dont have a sub box thing and really dont wanna buy one(being cheap) but i was curious how safe i would be running 4 1000 w lights off of the 3 different outlets the ampage is 20 20 and a 15, so i was considering running 2 lights off of 1 plug 2 lights off of another an then fans off the 15. just looking for an opinion of some seasoned members. obviously im trying to save money but if the fact of the matter is i should get a sub box then it can be done


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## KT420 (Jul 25, 2012)

OmNomEdibles said:


> so i have 3 different outlets available in my garage where my tent is, all coming off of 120 v and then the infamous dryer plug which is 220 but i dont have a sub box thing and really dont wanna buy one(being cheap) but i was curious how safe i would be running 4 1000 w lights off of the 3 different outlets the ampage is 20 20 and a 15, so i was considering running 2 lights off of 1 plug 2 lights off of another an then fans off the 15. just looking for an opinion of some seasoned members. obviously im trying to save money but if the fact of the matter is i should get a sub box then it can be done


You can afford a 4 light setup, but can't afford a $200 box? http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php?products_id=1969

2 120v 1k's on 1 120v 20a circuit is too much, @ about 9.6a per light, that's too close.You COULD turn those 20a 120v recepts into 20a 240v recepts, and run 2 1kw 240v ballasts of each that way, but that would require swapping out the receptacles, and you'd have to swap the 20a single pole breakers in your panel out for 20a double poles, IF you have the room to add them, AND if there's enough length on your now neutral wire to reach the 2 pole breaker and turn it into a hto wire.... In the end, it would be easier, and better, to just get the 30a dryer/timer box. Although you may still want to convert one of those 20a 120v circuits to 240v if you want to power a window shaker AC or something...


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## potmama86 (Jul 25, 2012)

I am growing in a storage building and want to make sure that I have the proper grade of wire to pull everything connected to it. What type of wire/cord, etc. would I need to pull around 3000 watts?


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## ganjalibera (Jul 26, 2012)

simple and perhaps silly questions: could my 600w (budget) ballast suck more electricity than 600w? can i run a 400w his bulb on a 600w ballast and is it a good or bad idea? thanks


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## foreverflyhi (Jul 26, 2012)

Hey brick, quick question, I have a outside shed that's more like a extra small room in the back, do u think it's worth getting electrical extensions to the back? Or will this be too much work?


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## Herbanfarmer52 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hi I'm new to the thread, medical out here in new mexico. I need help with pigtailing 4 1000 watt electronic ballasts to a 40 amp water heater timer.


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## bewareofdogandowner (Jul 28, 2012)

ganjalibera said:


> simple and perhaps silly questions: could my 600w (budget) ballast suck more electricity than 600w? can i run a 400w his bulb on a 600w ballast and is it a good or bad idea? thanks


No...600w is 600w no matter the voltage applied.
any lamp rated for other than what the fixture says can result in burnt ballast, possible fire etc. Early lamp failures


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## notmebutthisguyiknow (Jul 29, 2012)

Hey there glad to have found ur post could use some input. I recently moved into a house and it has a storoge room added onto it.I jus found out that it has its own breaker box, now I'm not sure if that's good or bad all I realy know how to do with electical is change a outlet,but anyways I realy would like to set up a good size grow but wanna make sure every thing is 100 percent safean as energy efficiant as possible any input will help.


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## ganjalibera (Jul 30, 2012)

Thanks bro


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## kgb424 (Jul 30, 2012)

got a question for you I using the third part of a three car garage, and there is only one two plug outlet and was wondering if there is a way to make a panel or a series of 4 square boxes, in each box, can I put a plug,breaker or reset,on/off switch, to separately run my ac,ballast,exhaust fan, T5's,timers,air pump,so if something trips the breakers, they don't trip the main panel to the house, only one of the boxes, on its own circuit, will not have to reset the house panel, just reset the one that tripped the breaker


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## jerichojews (Jul 30, 2012)

What if I wanted to plug a surge protector into another surge protector? Is this a stupid thing to do? I'd only be running cfl's on these, so I wouldn't be drawing too much wattage at all. Still, is this a hazard of any kind?


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## Jman305 (Aug 3, 2012)

Will a 600 watt digital ballast, 24 watt inline for cool tube, plus another 24 watt for air filter, plus a ~50 watt oscillating fan and 100-200 watts of UVB be too much for a square d 20 amp?


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Aug 3, 2012)

Jman305 said:


> Will a 600 watt digital ballast, 24 watt inline for cool tube, plus another 24 watt for air filter, plus a ~50 watt oscillating fan and 100-200 watts of UVB be too much for a square d 20 amp?


not at all. add it up (600+25+25+50+200=900w). 900/110v = 8.19amps. nothing at all to worry about. you have plenty of room.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Aug 3, 2012)

jerichojews said:


> What if I wanted to plug a surge protector into another surge protector? Is this a stupid thing to do? I'd only be running cfl's on these, so I wouldn't be drawing too much wattage at all. Still, is this a hazard of any kind?



Yes, it is a hazzard of a certain kind. The common sense kind. Even though you have no intention to overload your megastrip, chaining power strips together creates numerous addition points of inadequate mechanical bonding. This will eventually likely cause a voltage drop further along your megastrip until your losing hundreds of watts to heat loss from poor connections. Even underloaded you'll be creating additional heat where you probably don't want or need it.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Aug 3, 2012)

Total.Hydroponic.Control said:


> Yes, it is a hazzard of a certain kind. The common sense kind. Even though you have no intention to overload your megastrip, chaining power strips together creates numerous addition points of inadequate mechanical bonding. This will eventually likely cause a voltage drop further along your megastrip until your losing hundreds of watts to heat loss from poor connections. Even underloaded you'll be creating additional heat where you probably don't want or need it.


how do you know he's using power strips? he could be using multiple outlets that are on the same 20amp breaker. plus, if you have the ballast plugged into the outlet then i really don't see anyproblem running the rest of that gear on a powerstrip. that's only 300w of gear which is like 2.8amps. most power strips are rated for 15 amps and you won't experience any voltage drop or heat issues running 3amps through them.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Aug 3, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> how do you know he's using power strips? he could be using multiple outlets that are on the same 20amp breaker. plus, if you have the ballast plugged into the outlet then i really don't see anyproblem running the rest of that gear on a powerstrip. that's only 300w of gear which is like 2.8amps. most power strips are rated for 15 amps and you won't experience any voltage drop or heat issues running 3amps through them.



Surge protectors are power strips... which is exactly what he stated he wanted to do. We are addressing two separate posts... notice the posters name on my quote. The poster to my reply also never specified a load... just numerous cfls and multiple power strips... add some water and tell me thats not trouble.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Aug 3, 2012)

Total.Hydroponic.Control said:


> Surge protectors are power strips... which is exactly what he stated he wanted to do. We are addressing two separate posts... notice the posters name on my quote. The poster to my reply also never specified a load... just numerous cfls and multiple power strips... add some water and tell me thats not trouble.


sorry total...my bad. i wasn't paying attention.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Aug 3, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> sorry total...my bad. i wasn't paying attention.



Its all good! At least everyone is getting some help with these questions. Alot of repeat questions, but you still hammer them out. I would have to guess a few houses haven't burned down because of your efforts.


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## 08GSXR600 (Aug 6, 2012)

HI guys

I live in an old townhouse and I am looking to upgrade the amount of electricity in a particular room. Currently, all outlets in the room are on the same breaker. I trip the breaker quite a bit. I want to upgrade to 2 1kw digital ballasts, run several fans, a window ac and have a 800w veg area in the same circuit. I am not even going to attempt to think about trying this myself, so i just need to know what to tell the electrician to install? Im guessing im going to want about 4kw capacity. better more than less! I think i need a subpanel? again, not even attempting myself, just need to know what to tell the electrician.

thank you and happy times


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## oakley1984 (Aug 6, 2012)

30-50a subpanel is your best bet leaves you lots of room to play that way
eg... i run a 3kw room of a 30a timerpanel and am only at ~half capacity (ballasts, 3 can fans, 2 wall fans, 12k btu minisplit heatpump)


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Aug 6, 2012)

08GSXR600 said:


> HI guys
> 
> I live in an old townhouse and I am looking to upgrade the amount of electricity in a particular room. Currently, all outlets in the room are on the same breaker. I trip the breaker quite a bit. I want to upgrade to 2 1kw digital ballasts, run several fans, and have a 800w veg area in the same circuit. I am not even going to attempt to think about trying this myself, so i just need to know what to tell the electrician to install? Im guessing im going to want about 4kw capacity. better more than less! I think i need a subpanel? again, not even attempting myself, just need to know what to tell the electrician.
> 
> thank you and happy times


hey bud, sounds like someone is upgrading. sweet dude. what you need from the electrician is gonna depend a lot on the equipment that you use. for example; are you using 240v ballasts or 120v? what other equipment do you have in each room? what size is the current breaker for the outlets in the room. a lot will depend on these answers. also, are you trying to do this for as cheap as possible or are you willing to spend some extra money to have it done a little nicer?

i would suggest that if you haven't bought the ballasts already that you get yourself 240v ballast cords. this will allow you to run your ballasts more efficiently and will also reduce the size of the breaker you will need and wire you need to bring from the breaker on the panel into your grow. you might even want to just think about getting a light controller instead of a subpanel. something with dual triggers will run both your flower and veg rooms. 

let me know. glad to help work through it for ya.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Aug 6, 2012)

oakley1984 said:


> 30-50a subpanel is your best bet leaves you lots of room to play that way
> eg... i run a 3kw room of a 30a timerpanel and am only at ~half capacity (ballasts, 3 can fans, 2 wall fans, 12k btu minisplit heatpump)


how are you running 3,000w on a 30 amp timer panel? are they 240v ballast cords? 1000w ballast pulls 10 amps at 120v and 5 amps at 240v. then you have 3 inline fans and a 12,000btu a/c all on the same circuit? you sure?


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## oakley1984 (Aug 6, 2012)

240v(technically 230v here, but 230v @ 30amp = ~7kw capacity, anyone who runs a subpanel at 120v is a fuckin moron in my personal opinion.
then again i understand electricity Alot better than the next (trying to get into electrical engineering at uni)


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Aug 6, 2012)

oakley1984 said:


> its called 240v, anyone who runs a subpanel at 120v is a fuckin moron in my personal opinion.
> then again i understand electricity Alot better than the next (trying to get into electrical engineering at uni)


i'm not talking about what you run your panel at (it wouldn't be a subpanel if you ran it at 120v; would be a glorified powerstrip). i'm talking about what you run your equipment on. you have 60 amps at 120v on a 240v 30 amp subpanel. 3 ballasts are 30amps. 3 inline fans are 6-8 amps. 2 amps for the wall fans. 10-12 amps for the a/c unit. that's around 50 amps which is 83% of your capacity. any electrician will tell you that is MAX load recommended on any circuit. most say stay around 75-80% of your rated load to be safe.


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## oakley1984 (Aug 6, 2012)

thats because i have an 8ft run from main panel with 4gauge. i dont really need to explain myself to you...


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## oakley1984 (Aug 6, 2012)

and if you really want to nitpick
1100w per ballast @ 115vac = 9.56a draw each 28.68
175w can fans draw whats that, a whole 1.52a each! 4.56
80w wall fans draw a WHOPPING 0.7a each 1.4a
heatpump draws 9.8a

44.44amp draw @ 115vac or a ~22amp draw @ 230vac
either way im less than 75% of my circut
you sure like to round things up.
Do Not talk to me like you think you know my equipment, situation and room better than i.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Aug 7, 2012)

oakley1984 said:


> and if you really want to nitpick
> 1100w per ballast @ 115vac = 9.56a draw each 28.68
> 175w can fans draw whats that, a whole 1.52a each! 4.56
> 80w wall fans draw a WHOPPING 0.7a each 1.4a
> ...


wow...you are a fun one to deal with. good luck with that degree...while you are at it try socializing with some people on campus toolbag. sorry i was off by 5 whole amps. what a jackass. you just proved my point. i'll talk to you any way i want; it's an internet forum so stop acting like you can do something about hero boy! feel free to stfu now.


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## oakley1984 (Aug 7, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> wow...you are a fun one to deal with. good luck with that degree...while you are at it try socializing with some people on campus toolbag. sorry i was off by 5 whole amps. what a jackass. you just proved my point. i'll talk to you any way i want; it's an internet forum so stop acting like you can do something about hero boy! feel free to stfu now.


numbers are numbers, theres right and theres wrong. and when it comes to electrical you damn right that 5 amps matters.

and the only tool bag here is you buddy.

you had a point to posting other than to be a judgmental douche with no actual facts?

Take a walk and let people who actually understand electricity help people.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Aug 7, 2012)

oakley1984 said:


> numbers are numbers, theres right and theres wrong. and when it comes to electrical you damn right that 5 amps matters.


duh ass clown...i guessed the electrical draw on your 3,000w grow based on some assumptions. obviously i'm not gonna be dead on! i don't know what type of ballasts, fans, a/c you are using. what are you? retarded? socially handicapped? you are at the max recommended load for your subpanel. not running at "less than half the capacity." THAT MATTERS! you were wrong.


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## reggaerican (Aug 7, 2012)

wow what happened here, this thread used to be so positive and helpfull. can you take the fighting to a pm so others can get the help they seek without fear of getting attacked...


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## 08GSXR600 (Aug 7, 2012)

2 1k watt lights, digital ballasts. Pretty sure I can switch cords easily. co2 setup ( still figuring out what controller to run) 6 inline fan, going sealed, 4in air scrubber. Veg is 6x4ft t5, & 250w mh with 4" inline. Two oscillating fans. Will put AC in if I need it. Which I probably will. In which case I don't know what Ac to get.


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## YoungStoner123 (Aug 7, 2012)

Hey this might be a noobie question but how exactly do i install lights to a grow room and give connect them to an electrical outlet? Also what is the smallest i could make my box if i have 15 plants and im using 2 400watt HID lights?


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Aug 7, 2012)

YoungStoner123 said:


> Hey this might be a noobie question but how exactly do i install lights to a grow room and give connect them to an electrical outlet? Also what is the smallest i could make my box if i have 15 plants and im using 2 400watt HID lights?


usually the bulb sits in a reflector or hood. it's screwed into a migul socket. then a cord goes from that to the ballast. ballast make heat so most people keep them outside the room. that's why most mogul cords are 10-15 feet. then the ballast plugs into the wall outlet.

two 400w lamps will cover a 3x6 area (3x3 each) to grow plants in effectively. you could go smaller but i wouldn't cause most hoods are at least 2' long. would be to tight in there. plus you would need to leave room for any other equipment that will be in the box like dehumidifier, fans, etc...


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## 08GSXR600 (Aug 7, 2012)

Scooby. Thx for help. So I just ask to have a 50a 240v subpanel installed ? Ballpark cost?


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Aug 7, 2012)

08GSXR600 said:


> Scooby. Thx for help. So I just ask to have a 50a 240v subpanel installed ? Ballpark cost?


 you could do that. then have him give you dedicated outlets for your 2 lights on a 30amp breaker. then have him give you a few more outlets all on the same 30 amp breaker. you won't ever use the max load anyway. depends on how far your room is from the breaker panel. $150-$400.


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## 08GSXR600 (Aug 7, 2012)

The room is on the far side of the hours from the breaker. Maysound dumb, but how do they run the wiring? Can they use the existing wiring/outlsts in the house but run it to a different/ new circuit at the breaker? I apologize if this makes no sense. I don't have a firm understanding of this. I don't see how it can be done without tearing out my walls. I have plenty of outlets in the room but they are all on the same circuit.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Aug 8, 2012)

08GSXR600 said:


> The room is on the far side of the hours from the breaker. Maysound dumb, but how do they run the wiring? Can they use the existing wiring/outlsts in the house but run it to a different/ new circuit at the breaker? I apologize if this makes no sense. I don't have a firm understanding of this. I don't see how it can be done without tearing out my walls. I have plenty of outlets in the room but they are all on the same circuit.


that's how most places are wired; by zone. all the outlets in a room are on the same breaker. the kitchen may get 2 breakers to handle appliances but that's pretty common. i couldn't tell you how they would do it but they can without ripping up your walls. usually they'll pull it thriugh the attack or into the basement. just have a few guys come give you an estimate. pickt he most reasonable one that looks like he won't steal the fine china.


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## 08GSXR600 (Aug 8, 2012)

Thanks!! Yea it's concrete block with a concrete subfloor. Two story so no attic above it.  I'll see what I can find!! Thank you for all your help


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## YoungStoner123 (Aug 8, 2012)

So if i have a 4x4 area with reflective insulation, would i be able to fit 15 plants? If so, would 2 400watt hid lights work?


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Aug 8, 2012)

YoungStoner123 said:


> So if i have a 4x4 area with reflective insulation, would i be able to fit 15 plants? If so, would 2 400watt hid lights work?


you'd be much more efficient and much better off yield wise just getting a single 600w light. it will cover the area much better. to get 15 plants in there you will have to keep them small. i would say 16 plants (4 rows of 4) under a 600w light in 1 gallon pots. you basically need to flower them as soon as they are rooted. either seed or clone.


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## YoungStoner123 (Aug 8, 2012)

Alright so a 600watt single would work best? And okay thanks. Do u know if i can purchase a 600watt at any local store like home depot?


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 8, 2012)

Go online and order a grow light. Homedot is for everything eles. eBay has some good combos. Hood filters and fans in 1 sale.


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## matatan (Aug 10, 2012)

will this
http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-Extension-Cord-240v-25ft/dp/B0046D8VUS
be ok on a 240 circuit that is 20amps? the description on the extension cord says 15amps..


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## matatan (Aug 10, 2012)

also, the outlet looks like this


i will need to swap it out with a 240v, can i do this myself? im pretty handy.. but by no means not an electrician.

i am 100% sure that is indeed a 240v outlet if ur wondering, i was testing what was on each circuit in my new apt, one by one, outlet by outlet, and this turned off my small fan(and made the fan superfast and eventually burned it out). 
only other outlet not to be powered was the living room AC outlet which is a standard 240v outlet.


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## NERKY (Aug 11, 2012)

Wondering how you feel about growing with used mh/hps high bay warehouse lights with magnetic ballasts. I see a lot of people suggesting to rewire the multi-tap with a common 16/3 extension cord (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKFWr1fA8d0&feature=plcp). Wondering about safety, particularly if I could improve it by wiring with a 110 cord rated to 90c or higher (if such a thing exists). In general, good idea/bad idea?


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 11, 2012)

16/3 is a bad idea if going with high watts. 14/3or10/3 would be my lowest. Amps going thrw a 16/3 will get very hot melting the outer cover possibly making wires contact and flames come after that.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Aug 11, 2012)

a lot of companies use #16 on their ballast extension cords. rated for 18amp. pushing a 1000w and 9amps shouldn't be that big of a deal. i would still go with #14 though.


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## matatan (Aug 11, 2012)

matatan said:


> will this
> http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-Extension-Cord-240v-25ft/dp/B0046D8VUS
> be ok on a 240 circuit that is 20amps? the description on the extension cord says 15amps..


anyone....?
and other question on top of this thread...?


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## oakley1984 (Aug 11, 2012)

matatan said:


> anyone....?
> and other question on top of this thread...?


you are asking if its okay to exceed the amperage rating on a power cord by over 33%.....
think hard. (and if your hard thinking comes to the conclusion that is okay... call an electrician)


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## matatan (Aug 12, 2012)

a simple NO would have sufficed but ok, thanks for being a dick
the title of this thread says it all....


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## matatan (Aug 12, 2012)

NO only if exceeding 15 amps? what if its only 1200watts, thats well under 15amps..?


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Aug 12, 2012)

matatan said:


> NO only if exceeding 15 amps? what if its only 1200watts, thats well under 15amps..?


that picture you posted does not look like a 240v socket to me. and if it is the power strip cord you found on Amazon will not fit in it cause they are different plugs. if the power cord is rated for 15 amps then that is the max you an put on that cord as long as the outlet is rated for that many amps or more as well. amps = watts/voltage. 1200 watts / 240v = 5 amps. check all equipment though cause many times they run at 220v or something different. not everything is straight 120/240v.


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## matatan (Aug 12, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> that picture you posted does not look like a 240v socket to me. and if it is the power strip cord you found on Amazon will not fit in it cause they are different plugs. if the power cord is rated for 15 amps then that is the max you an put on that cord as long as the outlet is rated for that many amps or more as well. amps = watts/voltage. 1200 watts / 240v = 5 amps. check all equipment though cause many times they run at 220v or something different. not everything is straight 120/240v.


thank you sir, so i can run 1200watts on a 15amp extension on a 20amp circuit.

the socket isnt a 240v socket, but its running at 240 along with another outlet that does have a 240socket. its weird i know, im in an older apt... im thinking best bet n safest bet is to rewire it. can i accomplish without making any holes to the walls?


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## matatan (Aug 12, 2012)

i see 2 options.. 
replace the socket with the correct 240socket and use the extension cord

go from the panel to room directly. researched a bit, i see 12/2 romex rated at 20amps is the wire i would need. how can i get this into the room? without holes in the wall


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Aug 12, 2012)

hire an electrician. it's not that expensive and it will save you from burning the place down. i'm not trying to be a dick but some of the questions you are asking are sure signs that you need to hire an electrician. it may not be as simple as you think. it may require changing breakers on the panel and running new wire to the outlets.


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## matatan (Aug 12, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> hire an electrician. it's not that expensive and it will save you from burning the place down. i'm not trying to be a dick but some of the questions you are asking are sure signs that you need to hire an electrician. it may not be as simple as you think. it may require changing breakers on the panel and running new wire to the outlets.


excellent. thank you.


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## imchucky666 (Aug 12, 2012)

smoote1987 said:


> Not trying to step on bricks toes or anything just wanted to give a little quick feed back but i'm not trying to answer your questions smokeh just giving my experience. You should wait for bricks response to do anything.
> 
> A surge protector as i under stand it will take the hit from a large surge in the power grid before it hits your equipment. If youre looking into those i'd say go with an "ups" unit. They have a battery installed in them and will keep all your low wattage equipment that is plugged into them running if you say have a black out, ie. if you have your lights and air pumps, and whatever plugged into one and have a surge in your power grid, the ups will take the hit instead of your much more valuable equipment and then continue to supply power to your low wattage equipment but not your lights. This is great for those who run hydro and need to keep their air pumps and water pubmps running.
> 
> Oh and if i were you i would buy some lower gauge (the lower the gauge the thicker the chord, right brick?) chord and a nice high volt/watt grounded plug and make my own extension chord for all that power draw. I don't like to put my or my grows safety in equipment that i am not sure will be able to handle the wattage. I like to do over kill, when it comes to safety.


Remember, amperage is draw, load, or required. you can have 110 volts, and 50 amps, and it will be more of a load, and cost you more than 50 amps on 220 volts for the same amount of time.
You are right, as far as smaller the number, the larger the gauge-hence easier or better capability to carry the load.
However, surge protectors do not provide power, they just absorb shocks or surges, for lack of a better term.


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 12, 2012)

And on the load part. Most amp rating are based off running amps not start up load amps. A 5 amp fan can take 8 amps to start. So don't max out amps and have everything turn on at the same time.


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## NERKY (Aug 16, 2012)

NERKY said:


> Wondering how you feel about growing with used mh/hps high bay warehouse lights with magnetic ballasts. I see a lot of people suggesting to rewire the multi-tap with a common 16/3 extension cord (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKFWr1fA8d0&feature=plcp**). Wondering about safety, particularly if I could improve it by wiring with a 110 cord rated to 90c or higher (if such a thing exists). In general, good idea/bad idea?


Have since found out that most computer power cords are insulated to @ least 105C min. and can typically handle plenty of amperage (15 or >). Now it's just a matter of rewiring the ballast to 120v (already done on my 400w MH Hubbell high bay) and finding the appropriate length in 14 awg or thicker. I plan to run 10' from the ballast to power and 5' from ballast to socket. Decided to try to keep my cords at 3x the req'd minimum amperage and focus more on interior and exterior heat insulation. I welcome any additional feedback.

**I feel I should mention a few safety-related points since I've linked this video. In it, and it's sequel, SleestaksRule shows how to rewire a high bay mult-tap from 277v to 120v and how to separate the socket from the ballast, respectively. (1) In both videos he uses 16/3 60Cmax outdoor ext. cord. (2) In both videos he omits using the ground and cuts it off. (3) He also makes connections with the high heat wires coming from the capacitor using 16/3 60C max cord without adding any heat insulation. (these specific wires coming from the capacitor are extremely insulated, well over 90C). (4) He doesn't mention the danger of capacitors in either video.
I am not an electrician and have very little experience with that trade, but I'm pretty sure about the following:
(1) All high bay MH/HPS external power cords require 90C min. interior/exterior heat insulation. This should never be substituted for less.
(2) In both situations the ground could've/should've been used. When adding the external cord the ground could've been connected to the ground terminal inside the ballast. When separating the socket and adding cord he could've created a ground inside the knockout box?? (this I'm not sure about)
(3) Additional heat insulation needed to be used for the wires he connected to the high heat wires coming from the capacitor. (not sure if there is a standard retrofit product for this or if high heat tape of RTV silicone could be used?)
(4) IT ALWAYS should be pointed out to laymen/women that touching a capacitor of these sizes can kill you instantly if adequately charged. You need the proper equipment to check for and/or drain this charge.

These statements were intended for review by people smarter than me. Please don't assume I have any idea what I'm talking about when it comes to something that could burn down your home or someone else's.


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## GanjaBot (Aug 21, 2012)

Hey guys, so read thru a bunch of the posts... and dont think my question was really brought up.. so here goes..
I'm trying to upgrade my grow from a 1000w to 1600w but if i add any power at all Ill have my breaker pop...
running everything off a single 15 amp breaker that goes to a spare bedroom+bathroom.

basicly wondering if there is a simple way to either add another 15amp breaker to the existing box (has plenty of room) and run it to a new socket in the room, or to divide the existing sockets on the existing breaker to split w the new breaker. Just wondering if there is an easy-ish way to get it done or if I would have to get an electrician cuz im in a rental house.


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## Donii (Aug 30, 2012)

What gauge wire will I need to use to rewire my 400w. I am trying to extend the lamp cord. Is there anything around the house I could cut the wire from and use you think?


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 30, 2012)

Donii said:


> What gauge wire will I need to use to rewire my 400w. I am trying to extend the lamp cord. Is there anything around the house I could cut the wire from and use you think?


It's about a buck a foot for new cord from the hydro store. And most can match ballest to hood. Just takes a day or 3. Look into that before you go cutting in to you wires. Your question leads me to think you haven't done it before do might be dangerus.


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## berad4guvna (Aug 30, 2012)

120 volt or 2fourty volt? you can get a dual 15 amp breaker which= 30 amps at 120. Buy at home depot. it is best if the breaker is the same brand as panel. Be careful when you pop-in the circuit, even if the panels main breaker is off you can still ground out if you touch both portion of the breaker slots. That equals bye bye. or fry-bye...


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 30, 2012)

berad4guvna said:


> 120 volt or 2fourty volt? you can get a dual 15 amp breaker which= 30 amps at 120. Buy at home depot. it is best if the breaker is the same brand as panel. Be careful when you pop-in the circuit, even if the panels main breaker is off you can still ground out if you touch both portion of the breaker slots. That equals bye bye. or fry-bye...


327 pages what question where you answering? It wasn't the last one asked.


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## Donii (Aug 30, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> It's about a buck a foot for new cord from the hydro store. And most can match ballest to hood. Just takes a day or 3. Look into that before you go cutting in to you wires. Your question leads me to think you haven't done it before do might be dangerus.


I know how to wire, I just don't want to order online. I just need to know what gauge wire I should use so I don't burn my house down. I can pick up wire from a store to use.


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 30, 2012)

I feel safe to say 10 or better. But wouldn't go under 14 unless it hard wire.


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## Donii (Aug 30, 2012)

Thank you


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 30, 2012)

There are others that can give you better advice but that's just my safe point.


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## membrainophones (Sep 4, 2012)

what size sub panel will i need to use for 10 240v outlets 30 120v outlets and 15 fans and what wire size do i need to use from my meter to the sub panel also how many outlets can i safely run on one circuit thanks for any input


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## oakley1984 (Sep 4, 2012)

membrainophones said:


> what size sub panel will i need to use for 10 240v outlets 30 120v outlets and 15 fans and what wire size do i need to use from my meter to the sub panel also how many outlets can i safely run on one circuit thanks for any input


call power company, you need a 2nd pole. you will not be able to do that with a sub panel... you will require a dedicated line.
presuming you are asking for 15 120v circuts (each circut containing 2 outlets) @ 15amp = 112.5 amp on a 240v panel
5 240v circuts (each circut containing 2 outlets) @ 15amp = 75amps @ 240v

you are looking @ 180amp draw roughly


you Need a 2nd pole and 2nd panel.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Sep 4, 2012)

membrainophones said:


> what size sub panel will i need to use for 10 240v outlets 30 120v outlets and 15 fans and what wire size do i need to use from my meter to the sub panel also how many outlets can i safely run on one circuit thanks for any input


i'm gonna do some math for the fun of it. make some assumptions too.

*10 outlets at 240v*

10 x 1000w lights = 55amps
10 x 600w lights = 23amps

*30 outlets at 120v*

i am assuming you mean 30 receptecles which would be 15 dual outlets. 
i am assuming that these outlets are for fans, inline fans, pumps, etc...
let say 10 inline fans at 1.5amps per fan. that's 15 amps. plus another 30 amps in other equipment. 45 amps total at 120v. that equals 23 amps at 240v.
you are gonna need and ac for a grow that big. probably 3-5 tons. let's say 25 amps at 240v. then a 70 pint dehumidifer running at 120 is 8 amps. so 4 amps at 240v. 


so i figure about 110 amps at 240v. if you have a 200-250amp service you can run a 125 amp subpanel off your main panel. but, chances are if you have a 200+ amp service then you aren't going to be able to use half of it for your grow. like the post above...you will need to get another meter and service line. depending on your untility company it shouldn't be that hard to get another 200amp service. then just run that service directly to your grow and place your loadcenter in there. then run off that as if you were wiring your house.

good luck.


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## membrainophones (Sep 5, 2012)

yours assumpstions were pretty close its actually 6 600s and 4 1000. yeah i was talking about the dual outlet 120v which is what 15 outlets? will be air pumps and fans. i already have a dual lug i think its called on my meter so theres a dedicated line to a small subpanel already that runs directly off the powerlines. im wanting to put a subpanel off that subpanel, the existing subpanel is already running some 240v outlets and 120v outlets. am also considering using a central air unit on the building or just ac and no heat havnt decided yet i already have a central air unit so it wont cost anything except ducting and wiring and time but its old so i might just buy a more energy efficient ac unit. i dont think it will have to be a 2-3 ton but i dont know about hvac building is 25' x 11' 12'x11' for bud 4'x8' for veg and the rest of the area is for ballasts, sink, nutes, fungicides, pesticides. still a work in progress the slab is down and the roof is done still needs walls framed and everything else


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Sep 5, 2012)

easiest thing to do is get an electrician out there and he can tell you in 5 minutes how much room you have on your exisiting service. then you will know if you are going to need another meter or upgraded service. you are gonna need around 100amps at 240v for what you want to do. my suggestion would be to get a 200amp panel and feed it with 2/0 copper or 4/0 aluminum cable. that way in the future you don't have tto worry if you want to upgrade. it will be the utility companies dime and time to upgrade the service and you'll already have all you need. just cause you have the 200 amps board doesn't mean you have to use it all. we've run 4/0 aluminum to 200 amp boards that were only using 50 amps cause they new int he future they were putting in a pool and hot tub. we've also run 2 gauge copper (125amp rating) to a 225amp board just cause the guy needed the 4o spaces the board had. 

find out what your max load is that you are using. all it is...a multitap and turning on a bunch of shit in your house to see. then you'll know what you can pull safely off your board.


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## sonofdust (Sep 5, 2012)

Bricktown;
Any experience with 400w switchable ballast's? or am I at the wrong place ? Thanks.


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## membrainophones (Sep 5, 2012)

im trying to avoid permits and having electricians poking around my grow but after reading these comments i may have no choice gonna reevaluate my power needs and see if i can get by with less outlets i didnt plan on usuing every single outlet i am gonna need 8 240v outlets for my ballasts though and prolly another 240v circuit for the central air or ac unit


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## Warriorbuds (Sep 5, 2012)

Have a stupid question about wiring cfl ballasts(125W, 200W).....can I get some advice from the electrician? Sorry, I didn't have the time to read entire thread.....
More specifically, can I wire an old printer cable(has ground) to a cfl ballast?)(If so what ballast do I need, and any advice on wiring??)

I'm trying to make my own cfl ballast and cable for 125W -200W CFL Bulb.
I realize that the ballast in cfl's is attatched to bulb....need to know how to wire one up, with recycled materials. 
TY!
Cheers!


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## Warriorbuds (Sep 5, 2012)

Total.Hydroponic.Control said:


> Yes, it is a hazzard of a certain kind. The common sense kind. Even though you have no intention to overload your megastrip, chaining power strips together creates numerous addition points of inadequate mechanical bonding. This will eventually likely cause a voltage drop further along your megastrip until your losing hundreds of watts to heat loss from poor connections. Even underloaded you'll be creating additional heat where you probably don't want or need it.




Would this be the same as running a bunch of extension chords inline together? Would that be considered the same thing? And would I risk losing wattage along the line? Also where would the extra heat you mentioned be coming from? Thanks!! 
Cheers!


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## rbman (Sep 6, 2012)

HI , is it safe to power electronic lighting ballast with a generator? I see some say generator ready and others info says not to.
Want to buy ballasts that will hold up to generator use in power outages.
thanks in advance


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Sep 6, 2012)

rbman said:


> HI , is it safe to power electronic lighting ballast with a generator? I see some say generator ready and others info says not to.
> Want to buy ballasts that will hold up to generator use in power outages.
> thanks in advance


running a generator is very noisy and you have high fuel costs. plus, most portable generators only have 2 120v outlets on a 15 amps circuit. you'd be better off getting an oversized UPS (battery backup) system like APC or Eaton. they will also condition the power before it gets to your lights which in turn makes your equipment last longer. just make sur eyou oversize it a little. plus you wl never have power interruptions which can blow you lights.


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## Warriorbuds (Sep 7, 2012)

Warriorbuds said:


> Have a stupid question about wiring cfl ballasts(125W, 200W).....can I get some advice from the electrician? Sorry, I didn't have the time to read entire thread.....
> More specifically, can I wire an old printer cable(has ground) to a cfl ballast?)(If so what ballast do I need, and any advice on wiring??)
> 
> I'm trying to make my own cfl ballast and cable for 125W -200W CFL Bulb.
> ...




Anyone??? TY


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## Warriorbuds (Sep 7, 2012)

anyone? ty


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## stondded (Sep 11, 2012)

I have 1200w in 4x8 with 100amp service and also have a 4x4 tht has t8s in it. I would like to put a 400w in the smaller tent but its blows the breaker everytime. My best option i figure is wiring another water heater timer on 240v but have no idea how to do tht. I was hoping someone could lead me in the right direction.


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## oakley1984 (Sep 11, 2012)

stondded said:


> I have 1200w in 4x8 with 100amp service and also have a 4x4 tht has t8s in it. I would like to put a 400w in the smaller tent but its blows the breaker everytime. My best option i figure is wiring another water heater timer on 240v but have no idea how to do tht. I was hoping someone could lead me in the right direction.


100 amp service? simply pull a 120v circut off that 100amp service for a 15a recepticle, use a heavy duty grounded timer... its overkill for 400w
getting a 240v timer for your 400w ballast... isnt exactly an economical way to go (eg cost vs need isnt really logical on this one)


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## stondded (Sep 11, 2012)

I want to setup the timer to run the 2 600w lights i have in flower and run the 400w on the normal 120 circuit. That way im saving more by having the larger lights on the larger volt circuit if that makes sense


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## kgb424 (Sep 13, 2012)

I'm willing to hire a electrician, but here's my problem I got plants just one week into flowering, I have a T5 setup running on cords and power strips in the room that the sub panel and seperate outlets is going in, So I need some one, that will keep his mouth shut and I can trust not to come back and rip me off. So calling a electrician out of the my local phone book is out,and the nearest Hydroponics store is 40 miles away I asked them if they knew anybody to do my electrical work, so I can use my switchable hps/mh ballast, exhaust fan, intake fan, ac unit, timers, air pumps, they politely told me they couldn't help me, so I need a sub panel installed and seperate outlets, but not sure how to approach a electrical contractor or anybody for that matter, live in rural area, not too grow friendly, so asking around is kinda taking a chance, I'm legal and its all good, but still some people get the undies in a fucking bunch because they thinks its bad, and I'm a crimal, I say screw them, I'm growing and fuck them but seriously need electrical work


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## george xxx (Sep 13, 2012)

stondded said:


> I want to setup the timer to run the 2 600w lights i have in flower and run the 400w on the normal 120 circuit. That way im saving more by having the larger lights on the larger volt circuit if that makes sense


Watts are watts no matter voltage you use. The electric company charges for watts used. No such thing as a larger volt circuit. 220 uses 2 110 circuits.

Example; 110 circuit using 10 guage wire can be used with a 30 amp breaker.
220 circuit using 10 guage wire can be used with a 60 amp breaker.
A 60 amp 220 breaker is just 2 110v 30 amp breakers pinned together.


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## H R Puff N Stuff (Sep 13, 2012)

kgb424 said:


> I'm willing to hire a electrician, but here's my problem I got plants just one week into flowering, I have a T5 setup running on cords and power strips in the room that the sub panel and seperate outlets is going in, So I need some one, that will keep his mouth shut and I can trust not to come back and rip me off. So calling a electrician out of the my local phone book is out,and the nearest Hydroponics store is 40 miles away I asked them if they knew anybody to do my electrical work, so I can use my switchable hps/mh ballast, exhaust fan, intake fan, ac unit, timers, air pumps, they politely told me they couldn't help me, so I need a sub panel installed and seperate outlets, but not sure how to approach a electrical contractor or anybody for that matter, live in rural area, not too grow friendly, so asking around is kinda taking a chance, I'm legal and its all good, but still some people get the undies in a fucking bunch because they thinks its bad, and I'm a crimal, I say screw them, I'm growing and fuck them but seriously need electrical work


you could have them run sub panel just outside of grow room and add the new plug circuits yourself just a thought just make sure you turn off breaker tha powers sub panel and you should be ok


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## Brokeoldbloke (Sep 13, 2012)

stondded said:


> I want to setup the timer to run the 2 600w lights i have in flower and run the 400w on the normal 120 circuit. That way im saving more by having the larger lights on the larger volt circuit if that makes sense


A normal household receptacle circuit is 15amps. The lights will pull a little more watts then their base rating (600 or 400). So those 3 would be close to 15amps total and would most likely cause the breaker to trip eventually. You could try it and maybe monitor it with "kill a watt" or other meter. Best bet would be to use 2 circuits and then you would have capacity for other equipment.


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## Brokeoldbloke (Sep 13, 2012)

george xxx said:


> Example; 110 circuit using 10 guage wire can be used with a 30 amp breaker.
> 220 circuit using 10 guage wire can be used with a 60 amp breaker.
> A 60 amp 220 breaker is just 2 110v 30 amp breakers pinned together.


Just FYI, A 220v 10awg 30amp circuit uses a 30amp two pole breaker (two 30amp breakers). The amps don't double but the wattage does.


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## ganjamonsta666 (Sep 13, 2012)

Hey brick,with a 1000w mh can I wire it like a 60w bulb and make it work on a 110 line ??


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## Ztelthy (Sep 14, 2012)

Hi mate, I'am doing a DIY Cool-Tube and using some CPU's my only trouble is figuring out what colors the black and red are ?? Given that there is only black,blue,green and yellow.. I really need some help figuring which 2 wires I need to use..Hope you can help, Regards - ZTELTHY


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## oakley1984 (Sep 14, 2012)

black and yellow, you are better off using a pc fan that isnt a pwm one....


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## Ztelthy (Sep 14, 2012)

oakley1984 said:


> black and yellow, you are better off using a pc fan that isnt a pwm one....









In most normal cases .. I would use a normal PC fan/s .. but for this project I need the round structure of the fan so it can attach straight to the cool-tube. Anyhow.. so its black and yellow I need? Ps/ what does PWM stand for? - ZTELTHY


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## supchaka (Sep 14, 2012)

Im assuming since a fan only needs 2 wires really the other wires are for speed control and relaying RPM back to the motherboard possibly?
Yes
[h=3]Pulse-width modulation[/h]Pulse-width modulation (PWM) is a common method of controlling computer fans.


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## oakley1984 (Sep 14, 2012)

yep you got it


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## bluejuice (Sep 23, 2012)

Electrical set up:
How does a newbie plug in all his stuff. No one mentions that you NEED to hire an electrician to come in so that you can run 3-6 1000w lights, plugs for the water,fans,etc. This is what I want to know. I tried to explain to an electrician that I was a pottery buff and needed more power, but he was either so dumb and just didnt understand I wanted more power(WIRES)or he was too lazy to do it or quote me. So how does one set up the ELECTRICITY needed for a proper 1000w/light x 6 grow and all the electricals for accessories without getn nailed.??


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## mikethegrower (Sep 27, 2012)

Hi, I have 100 amp service and want to know if all my grow equipment, lights, fans, A/C etc... totals
80 amps is this ok. Right now it is 70 but I want to add 4 more lights. I do not use too many of the household appliances during lights on. Mostly during lights on it is just the basic household stuff. Also the 70 amps I use right now is not all at once. A/C and exhaust fans do not always run and 20 amps of lights are on 12/12 and the other 10 amps of light are on 18/6. Thanks in advance


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## JuniorDavis (Oct 12, 2012)

Can you get sick having a 600w ballast and or not properly venting your tent in your room?

I have a digital HTG 600w MH/HPS. The ballast sits at the end of my bed and my tent has a fan that blows the heat out the bottom of the tent and then into my room. But there's no ducting, my fan in my window just pulls out the heat in the room.

Thanks.


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## oakley1984 (Oct 12, 2012)

JuniorDavis said:


> Can you get sick having a 600w ballast and or not properly venting your tent in your room?
> 
> I have a digital HTG 600w MH/HPS. The ballast sits at the end of my bed and my tent has a fan that blows the heat out the bottom of the tent and then into my room. But there's no ducting, my fan in my window just pulls out the heat in the room.
> 
> Thanks.


from the ballast no, from the increased humidity levels in your room yes!
thats the type of things that lead to molding!


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## JuniorDavis (Oct 12, 2012)

oakley1984 said:


> from the ballast no, from the increased humidity levels in your room yes!
> thats the type of things that lead to molding!


What if the ballast makes a noise?

Also my tent is open. I just keep it zipped up enough so light doesn't leak out that much. I only have it on for 10 hours. But I was smelling Ozone on day when I walked into the room. But I don't know where it came from. My pc is in my room too. But I never smelled it until I hooked up this 600w. It's used and there's no plastic on the reflector.

Small hum from the ballast every once and a while. 

If the tent and ballast vent to the room with the window fan venting out. You would say there's no problems with this?

If not cool and I'll just buy some ducting some time.

I also don't really have any humidity issues, I dry in the closet in my room too and it gets too dry. Id say around 20-30 humidity.

Thanks.


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## bluntmassa1 (Oct 13, 2012)

bluejuice said:


> Electrical set up:
> How does a newbie plug in all his stuff. No one mentions that you NEED to hire an electrician to come in so that you can run 3-6 1000w lights, plugs for the water,fans,etc. This is what I want to know. I tried to explain to an electrician that I was a pottery buff and needed more power, but he was either so dumb and just didnt understand I wanted more power(WIRES)or he was too lazy to do it or quote me. So how does one set up the ELECTRICITY needed for a proper 1000w/light x 6 grow and all the electricals for accessories without getn nailed.??




this place has some decent shit for that you can plug them into your dryer outlet or you can hard wire them to your breaker box http://www.dxsoundco.com/ you can do it cheaper yourself but these are all set to go and cheaper and safer then electricions.


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## bluntmassa1 (Oct 13, 2012)

JuniorDavis said:


> What if the ballast makes a noise?
> 
> Also my tent is open. I just keep it zipped up enough so light doesn't leak out that much. I only have it on for 10 hours. But I was smelling Ozone on day when I walked into the room. But I don't know where it came from. My pc is in my room too. But I never smelled it until I hooked up this 600w. It's used and there's no plastic on the reflector.
> 
> ...


magnetic ballasts hum its normal. but ozone generators are really bad for you you need them going straight outside through your duct. you should not be breathing the air coming off those things. if you want to keep the heat in the house from your grow you should have a carbon filter.


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## JuniorDavis (Oct 13, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> magnetic ballasts hum its normal. but ozone generators are really bad for you you need them going straight outside through your duct. you should not be breathing the air coming off those things. if you want to keep the heat in the house from your grow you should have a carbon filter.


I heard magnetic ballast can cause Sick Building Syndrome. However I have a 600w Greenhouse digital electronic. It's just like a capacitor kinda noise, Constant Electronic. Kinda high pitched. Nothing happens if I move the plugs or wires. So it's coming from inside the ballast.

I don't have an Ozone generator either. I meant I smelled an electronic kinda smell which smelled much like Ozone. Kinda like what you smell out of the back of a PC.

Other than that it's just a reflector and 600w bulb in a 3.5x3.5x7 openly vented tent, in our bedroom.


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## JimmyRecard (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm sure this or something similar has been asked but is there any specific amount of kwh used per day that is going to appear suspicious even if paid?


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## flyer81 (Oct 21, 2012)

I just ran a subpanel using some existing wires. 2 of the wires were 6 gauge, 1 was 10 gauge and there were 3 12 gauge wires. There were ran about 70 feet to a junction box where I spliced them all (done properly) to 8 gauge wire which ran the remaining 10 feet to the subpanel. 

Now for the hots, I used the 6 gauge. But then that left the ground and the common. For the ground I used the 10 gauge and a 12 gauge together. For the common I used the remaining two 12 gauge wires. 

So to be clear, that is 2 cables 6gauge to 8 gauge for the hots, a 10 gauge and a 12 gauge spliced to 8 gauge for the ground, and 2- 12 gauge wires spliced to 8 gauge for the common. I put this all behind a 30 amp two pole circuit breaker. Am I crazy? 

Now the reason I thought that this would be OK is that there is one other subpanel in my house. That subpanel is being fed off of two 12-2 romex cables. The two blacks supply the power to the panel, the two whites go to the ground bus and the 2 bare coppers go to the common bus. That is supplying power for a refridgerator circuit and 3 lighting and outlet circuits. That is all behind a 30 amp circuit as well. 

Current equipment is 2 water pumps, 3 airpumps, 3 fans, 10,000 btu window fan, 600w HPS, 4 bulb T5 light, 8" can fan, 6" can fan, 2x 6" inline fans.

To be added in near future: 6" can fan w/ carbon filter, water pump, air pump, 6 bulb T5 light fixture, additional 600w HPS, a couple circulating fans, 3 ton mini-split.


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## JGF (Oct 24, 2012)

Quick question for Electric vets:

I am setting up a grow with 2 x 1000w (from what I understand, ~9amps each) and 1 x 400w (~3.3amps) so I'm going to be at about ~22-23amps total, way over the 15 amps the room is wired for.

I have two questions:

1) Is my best option running a second line to the room from the breaker (through the attic), preferably a 20amp (12 gauge wire)?

2) Is it possible to run power from a second bedroom (only uses a computer for power currently) through the wall to the next room, assuming it also is wired for 15 amps?

I suppose no matter what I have to get an electrician because I don't feel confident doing it myself, but I'd like honest opinions of what I should/need to do before hiring someone to upcharge me. The breaker on my house is pretty loaded and there is only one empty spot available, so I hope a 20 amp circuit is even a possibility. Does everyone running 2 x 1000w in their homes deal with this kind of setup? I know it's important, but I rarely hear anyone talk about it!

Thanks in advance for the help!


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## oakley1984 (Oct 24, 2012)

JGF said:


> Quick question for Electric vets:
> 
> I am setting up a grow with 2 x 1000w (from what I understand, ~9amps each) and 1 x 400w (~3.3amps) so I'm going to be at about ~22-23amps total, way over the 15 amps the room is wired for.
> 
> ...


chances are better than not that both bedrooms share the same electrical circut.
dedicated lines are best choice for high amperage loads.


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## JGF (Oct 24, 2012)

oakley1984 said:


> chances are better than not that both bedrooms share the same electrical circut.
> dedicated lines are best choice for high amperage loads.


I figured as much. Thanks for the input, I think the only way I'll feel comfortable running that high of an amperage load is running it's own line. I'll just run both the 1000w's on the new 20amp line, and leave the rest for what the room is already wired for.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Oct 24, 2012)

JGF said:


> I figured as much. Thanks for the input, I think the only way I'll feel comfortable running that high of an amperage load is running it's own line. I'll just run both the 1000w's on the new 20amp line, and leave the rest for what the room is already wired for.


if you are running those 1000w lights on 120v then run a 30amp breaker and #10 wire. you shouldn't run anymore than 75% of the rated load on a circuit. so, running 18-20amps on a 20amp circuit is not a good idea; can cause overheating and other issues. also, most outlets are only rated for 15amps so you want to look for a higher rated outlet or run each light on it's own outlet that you have pigtailed of eachother.


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## JGF (Oct 26, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> most outlets are only rated for 15amps so you want to look for a higher rated outlet or run each light on it's own outlet that you have pigtailed of eachother.


What do you mean pigtailed of each other? I think I am going to just run a 30amp line like you mentioned and run the 2 1000w's off that to keep it safe. Thanks for the advice!


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Oct 26, 2012)

JGF said:


> What do you mean pigtailed of each other? I think I am going to just run a 30amp line like you mentioned and run the 2 1000w's off that to keep it safe. Thanks for the advice!


the plain outlets you see on the wall around your house are rated for 15amps usually. if you plug 2 1000w lights into it then they won't run because you are pulling 20amps. creates safety issues.


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## MisterSosa (Oct 27, 2012)

You also have use the continiuos load multiplier of 1.25.

For example: 
6 -1000w HPS @ 240v = 25a
Then since its a continious load you must multiply it by 1.25

25a x 1.25 = 31.25 which rounds up to 40a breaker


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Oct 27, 2012)

MisterSosa said:


> You also have use the continiuos load multiplier of 1.25.
> 
> For example:
> 6 -1000w HPS @ 240v = 25a
> ...


never heard that before in my life. plus, grow lights aren't continuos loads anyway. and who said anything about running the lights at 240v or 6000w of lighting.


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## Fatty420 (Nov 4, 2012)

Can anyone help me? 

I setup a 3000w grow room in a spare bedroom, I have three 1000w ballast, now there is 2 outlets in the room, I plugged the first light in to the first outlet and it worked fine, I plugged the second 1000w into the same first outlet and about 5 seconds later, all the lights went off in the house (breaker flipped) Im guessing because Two 1000w in the same outlet = not smart, I did'nt try plugging the 2nd light in the 2nd outlet, because I think these 2 outlets in the room, are pigtailed 

Now i went and looked in my breaker box, I have 4 more slots for other circuit breakers that I could plug in, I dont know much about electrical, should I run a dedicated line JUST for the three 1000w ballasts? and if so, how? its a GE panelboard or whatever, 

also

What If I made 3 outlets by pigtailing off the one outlet ? but that wouldnt work because it would still be the same line/amp max right? 

I need help!

I can get pics of my breaker box and outlet wiring if needed, thanks!!


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## Herbzman (Nov 4, 2012)

I think you need a contactor relay... thats what some guy on this forum told me to get... they come with in built timers some of them..


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Nov 4, 2012)

Fatty420 said:


> Can anyone help me?
> 
> I setup a 3000w grow room in a spare bedroom, I have three 1000w ballast, now there is 2 outlets in the room, I plugged the first light in to the first outlet and it worked fine, I plugged the second 1000w into the same first outlet and about 5 seconds later, all the lights went off in the house (breaker flipped) Im guessing because Two 1000w in the same outlet = not smart, I did'nt try plugging the 2nd light in the 2nd outlet, because I think these 2 outlets in the room, are pigtailed
> 
> ...


hey bud, chances are the breaker that flipped was a 15-20 amp breaker and it controls both outlets in that room. this is standard when an electrician wires a house. he will wire it in zones and will usually put the outlets in a bedroom or smaller room all on the same breaker. the reason that it flipped was because a 1000w light uses 9.5-10 amps. so when you added the 2nd light it was over capacity. even if you had added the light to the other outlet it would have probably flipped the breaker. the other issue is that most standard outlets in your home have 2 receptacles for plugs but the outlet (both receptacles) can only handle up to 15 amps. with electricity you really only want to use 75-80% of the rated load. so, on a 15 amp breaker you don't want to put more than 12 amps on it and on a 20 amp breaker you don't want more than 16 amps.

the easiest way to fix the problem would be to use the existing outlets in the room for the smaller equippment (pumps, fans, thermostats, etc...) that you will have in the room. then use 1 of the spaces in the breaker panel to run a subpanel to your room. make it a 30-40 amp subpanel and run #10 wire from the new breaker to subpanel in your room. when you run a subpanel you are using a 240v breaker. so, the breaker in your existing panel is going to be 30-40 amps at 240v. this means that your subpanel will give you 60 - 80 amps at 120v. this ishould be more than enough for your lights and any othe rlarge equipment you may need in the room like an a/c or dehumidifier that use a lot of power. essentially you then use the subpanel to create specific outlets for each of these pieces of equipment. you can put in a 20 amp breaker and run it to an outlet and make 3 just like it; 1 for each outlet. or you can get a higher rated outlet and run all 3 lights or 2 of the lights off 1 of the outlets; you would need an industrial 40 amp outlet. 

the other option would be to use a light controller. they are more expensive but much easier to set up. you get a 4 outlet light controller and then just wiore it directly from the new breaker on your existing panel. then you don't have to wire anything after the subpanel and don't need additional outlets. they work like a subpanel themselves. you just wire them up an plug your lights into them. then; you can have all of your lights on 1 simple timer. check out the CAP MLC-4. they make them with a built in timer too if you want that model. it's a mechanical timer so if you want a digital timer you just get the base model and add the timer you want to it. they also make them with 2 trigger cords if you want to run the lights on different timers.

hope that helped and wasn't too confusing. good luck.


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## Herbzman (Nov 4, 2012)

my breaker/fuse box thingy says 63amps and then for each switch its like the 'main circuit' was b32 'water heater' was b16.. im not sure if thats amps... anyone have any idea what these b## numbers are about? im trying to find out total amp load for circuits in the flat. does it mean i can run up to 63amps if everything like boiler and fridges etc. are off all the time? or does it mean i need to find out what b32 means?!


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Nov 15, 2012)

I could really use an electrician's advice in this thread.. question posted as thread title and topic. I can't seem to find anyone who can answer me with an answer except.. " I think that will work." 

Thanks. 

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/583252-running-apollo-led-light-cap.html#post8260593


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## greenmonster15 (Nov 25, 2012)

I can't seem to pull the trigger on my pre-electrical planning. Anyone have suggestions on the "best" way to wire up (4) 1000 watt ballasts. I'm running a 100A subpanel with 40A @ 240v, 80A @ 120v going to it. I haven't purchased any timers yet. I need the 4 running on a pair of timers (2 and 2). 

How would someone with more experience than me wire up the outlets from the subpanel? 240v or 120v? I haven't purchased any electrical material beyond installing the subpanel.

Suggestions for inexpensive timer options are also welcome.


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## Babybud3232 (Nov 30, 2012)

hi there was wondering how I would go about wiring a axial kitchen fan to a plug cord for uk use.....any help advice mist welcome


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## kenny ken 77 (Nov 30, 2012)

Whoever this sparky is, they should start charging a consultation fee...lol!! I've only read one page, poor bastard has his work cut out for him...lol!!


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## georgyboy (Nov 30, 2012)

In my home there are 3 bedrooms and a bathroom on a single circuit. One of these rooms is my grow room, and I am really limited in the amount of power I can use because I need to be able to use the other rooms in the house that are on the circuit. How hard would it be to put this room on its own circuit, and how do I go about doing it? The room is on the opposite side of the house compared to the breaker box. I really appreciate any help.


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## ASMALLVOICE (Nov 30, 2012)

georgyboy said:


> In my home there are 3 bedrooms and a bathroom on a single circuit. One of these rooms is my grow room, and I am really limited in the amount of power I can use because I need to be able to use the other rooms in the house that are on the circuit. How hard would it be to put this room on its own circuit, and how do I go about doing it? The room is on the opposite side of the house compared to the breaker box. I really appreciate any help.


You will have to pull a "home run" cable/s from the grow room to your breaker panel. I would run more than 1, possibly 2-3 and use 2( if that suffices for your grow gear) and have a spare for future use if needed.

Make sure you size the wire and breaker accordingly. If you are not 100% comfortable with doing this, please get an electrician to do it for you. No grow is worth even the slightest chance for someone to get hurt.

Peace and Safe Grows

Asmallvoice


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Nov 30, 2012)

I agree with the post above for the most part. You need to get an electrician in there to do the work. Instead of pulling 2-3 wires into the grow room youcan just pull 1 set for a sub panel. Run your entire grow room off the sub panel and then leave the oher 2 bedrooms and the bathroom on the existing circuit. Chances are that the grow room outlets are a link in the chain so you can't just disconnect them or you will probably lose power in other rooms. That's why bringing in a seperate sub panel would be the best idea in my opinion.


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## Rizzo00 (Dec 3, 2012)

Bricktown,

I am going to be running a pc box in my attic. The box is completely built but.... I dont have an outlet in my attic. There is power running to an outlet that powers the garage door but the outlet is in the garage and not in attic. The wires run through the attic and down to garage. So how do i properly get power from that line to a new outlet of my own in the attic? I have spare outletsand wire to fabricate myself. I just dont know exactly what to do. Can you help me please?


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## peazbury (Dec 3, 2012)

Hi Guys, respect to Brick this is one of the best threads I have stumbled on.

Im just about to start work on my grow room. It will be running 600w magnetic HPS Exhaust probably runs at 40w and intake at 30w and I want a flip on/of bulb.

Just wondering what sort of strain this would create on the system and if there is any safety measures I should take with it?


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## mages (Dec 8, 2012)

Hey thanks for offering advice man. I have been at my current place now for a year with no problems, (4 x 1000w 240v sunsystem magnetic on their own 50 amp circuit) a few days ago I realized the circuit tripped halfway through the light cycle. Unsure if it was caused by storms we had that night I reset the circuit at the box and turned the lights on the following night. 2 hours later I went to check, and the circuit had tripped again. I reset circuit again and unplugged 1 ballast. Turned lights back on and they were fine for 4 hrs till I went to bed. The following morning I went to check as it was almost lights off, and the circuit tripped again in the night. Electrician coming on monday, was wondering if a ballast that is shorting could cause this as one of them was causing the light to flicker the last few weeks. Not sure what it could be, for sure not overloading the circuit. Thanks for any advice


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## spaz92 (Dec 8, 2012)

I'm seeing alot of people asking the same questions over and over again people if you just take a second to read through this thread chances are your question is already answered i found out everything i needed by reading other peoples questions. oh and it saves the time of waiting for a reply if you have questions about how to do what they say in this thread its all over the internet on how to do everything it takes to run separate power from your breaker to your grow room.


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## SnotBoogie (Dec 8, 2012)

I need to connect around 10 AC->DC LED drivers to the mains. At the moment my plan is to solder them to power blocks, but surely there is an easier and safer way to connect them in parallel?


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## guod (Dec 9, 2012)

^^^^^^^^
http://www.wago.us/products/2631.htm


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## seaofgreen420 (Dec 10, 2012)

Hey guys I had a quick question, I'm about to be moving into a new house. When I was walking around the garage where I wanted to set up shop I noticed the dryer plug was a 30 amp 125/250 volt nema 14 30, my question is, can I buy a master controller that will plug into this or do I have to change something up, I'm planning on using 3 1ks or 4 6s, any help is greatly appreciated. Happy growing!!


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## ASMALLVOICE (Dec 10, 2012)

seaofgreen420 said:


> Hey guys I had a quick question, I'm about to be moving into a new house. When I was walking around the garage where I wanted to set up shop I noticed the dryer plug was a 30 amp 125/250 volt nema 14 30, my question is, can I buy a master controller that will plug into this or do I have to change something up, I'm planning on using 3 1ks or 4 6s, any help is greatly appreciated. Happy growing!!


 I would not want my controller on the same circuit as my hardware, 1 trip and a crop is lost. Break the load up to several other smaller breakers in a sub panel and have the controller by itself on a circuit and you will more than likely avoid a heartbreak....jmo

Having the entire grow room on 1 circuit is asking for trouble for sure.

Peace and Safe Grows

Asmallvoice


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## georgyboy (Dec 13, 2012)

ASMALLVOICE said:


> You will have to pull a "home run" cable/s from the grow room to your breaker panel. I would run more than 1, possibly 2-3 and use 2( if that suffices for your grow gear) and have a spare for future use if needed.
> 
> Make sure you size the wire and breaker accordingly. If you are not 100% comfortable with doing this, please get an electrician to do it for you. No grow is worth even the slightest chance for someone to get hurt.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I feel comfortable enough doing most electrical work as far as safety goes. But how does one run a cable from one room to a breaker box on the other side of the house? Do I have to take down the drywall or pull up the floor or something? I don't have a basement, but I do have an attic. The attic is only on part of the house, as much of the place has been added on. Also, what do I do with the cable currently running into the room? I know I'm stacking a lot of questions in this post but how do I find the spot where the line splits from the main line (the one carrying power to the other 2 rooms and the bathroom) without tearing the house completely apart. What's the trick to doing electrical work neatly? If you've already covered this before I'm sorry, feel free to point me towards an older post rather than repeating yourself. I really appreciate your help. I want to expand my grow but I need to consider the needs of everyone in my home.


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## chunkylonin (Dec 13, 2012)

Not to be a dick but if your asking a question like this,then you have no business messing with anything electric,call an electrian ASAP


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## georgyboy (Dec 13, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> I agree with the post above for the most part. You need to get an electrician in there to do the work. Instead of pulling 2-3 wires into the grow room youcan just pull 1 set for a sub panel. Run your entire grow room off the sub panel and then leave the oher 2 bedrooms and the bathroom on the existing circuit. Chances are that the grow room outlets are a link in the chain so you can't just disconnect them or you will probably lose power in other rooms. That's why bringing in a seperate sub panel would be the best idea in my opinion.


So would this sub panel provide power independent of the existing outlets? Like the outlets already in the room will still be on the original circuit, but the sub panel will be it's own independent circuit with it's own breaker and I can add new outlets in a small custom box like something you make in your first electricity class? This is more so the option I was looking for, as it keeps the wiring more at my level of experience, but I still don't really know how to run a cord all that length and keep it out of sight.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Dec 13, 2012)

georgyboy said:


> So would this sub panel provide power independent of the existing outlets? Like the outlets already in the room will still be on the original circuit, but the sub panel will be it's own independent circuit with it's own breaker and I can add new outlets in a small custom box like something you make in your first electricity class? This is more so the option I was looking for, as it keeps the wiring more at my level of experience, but I still don't really know how to run a cord all that length and keep it out of sight.


Basically you would add a 50-100amp 240v breaker to your existing panel. Then run a line from that breaker to a small (12-16 circuit) breaker panel. Then you would use the breakers in that new panel to feed outlets for your equipment. it's pretty simple. As far as getting the wire there from the other side of the house; that's kinda hard to guess when i don't know what your house looks like or how it is setup. Can you run the wire outside and around the house and into the grow room? That might be an option.


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## Mister Black (Dec 13, 2012)

I want to make a 4 fixture CFL fitting that can hang rather like a T5. It would of course be wired to one plug. I'd want to plug 65w (real watts) CFL bulbs in there. They are pretty bulky Seeing as I live outside North America and Europe and it is relatively cheap I was thinking of hiring an electrician to make one. There is a considerable language barrier so I'll have to use drawings. I grow in a 2x2x5 tent. What kind of pictures should I be drawing and what kind of considerations should I have in this situation?


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## FranJan (Jan 5, 2013)

Hey all I'm wondering if anyone here can give me a hand with an electrical problem that plagues myself and a lot of LED growers, (I must admit I didn't read the thread but I bet no one has asked this question). Seems that some LED panels will remain partially lit during lights off, which we all agree is probably not too good for the flowers or the panels . What we can't seem to agree on is why this occurs. Some say it's the room's wiring. That old outdated wiring causes this. And for the record I have very old 2 wire ungrounded outlets. Some say it's digital timers that cause this and using analog timers will fix this, though I've had it happen on both kinds. Some say that the panel itself is grounded improperly, which I believe too. In my situation the only way to fix it is to connect the ground to a small nut and bolt that is connected to one of the PC cooling fans that many LED manufacturers use. The problem with that solution is if I touch the panel during lights off the diodes will faintly glow, and yes the nut and bolt connection is isolated from the case. I've tried to connect it to different parts of the panel's metal casing but it doesn't work all the time. Or could it be the drivers/transformers that LEDs use? That cheap ass drivers are continuously sipping power? 
So to all you electricians out there, before I or anyone give themselves a case of cardiac arrythmia , what the hell is causing this behavior in some panels? I don't think the DIY light makers suffer from this, (or they're not saying perhaps ), but lots of LED growers, usually with Chinese made panels, have this problem. So anyone out there have an idea to what's really going on? Is there one common thread to this problem? Or is it several? Thanks RIU.


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## ASMALLVOICE (Jan 5, 2013)

FranJan said:


> Hey all I'm wondering if anyone here can give me a hand with an electrical problem that plagues myself and a lot of LED growers, (I must admit I didn't read the thread but I bet no one has asked this question). Seems that some LED panels will remain partially lit during lights off, which we all agree is probably not too good for the flowers or the panels . What we can't seem to agree on is why this occurs. Some say it's the room's wiring. That old outdated wiring causes this. And for the record I have very old 2 wire ungrounded outlets. Some say it's digital timers that cause this and using analog timers will fix this, though I've had it happen on both kinds. Some say that the panel itself is grounded improperly, which I believe too. In my situation the only way to fix it is to connect the ground to a small nut and bolt that is connected to one of the PC cooling fans that many LED manufacturers use. The problem with that solution is if I touch the panel during lights off the diodes will faintly glow, and yes the nut and bolt connection is isolated from the case. I've tried to connect it to different parts of the panel's metal casing but it doesn't work all the time. Or could it be the drivers/transformers that LEDs use? That cheap ass drivers are continuously sipping power?
> So to all you electricians out there, before I or anyone give themselves a case of cardiac arrythmia View attachment 2467449, what the hell is causing this behavior in some panels? I don't think the DIY light makers suffer from this, (or they're not saying perhaps ), but lots of LED growers, usually with Chinese made panels, have this problem. So anyone out there have an idea to what's really going on? Is there one common thread to this problem? Or is it several? Thanks RIU.


What you are experiencing is called " floating ground/neutral". This occurs when the potential between the "hot" and the "neutral/ground" is not large enough to isolate the power during "off" conditions. This is a potentially hazardous situation and will cause numerous issues with any device that uses this power. You need to verify your grounding from your incoming power and make sure it is sound at all points( even the power company's service to the home). You can add another ground rod and tie it to the ground bar in the panel. Make sure that your neutral/ground bar is bonded securely to the incoming ground and all meter connections are secure as well.

Certain foriegn electrical equipment is manufactured to be able to run on "dirty" 50hz power and that causes all kinds of harmonic imbalances on older 60hz american equipment such as your panel. If you have an old analog mutimeter, such as a Simpson 260, you can see the issues that this causes, a regular digital multimeter ( fluke) is incapable of reading this.

If a device does not turn all the way off when the power is turned off, that is an avenue for a severe electrical mishap, either to the equipment, you, or both.

What happens is the power from other devices in your home are utilizing the neutral in the "off" equipment as a return path to the panel. Remember, electricity is as lazy as things get, it will always choose the path of least resistance. That is why the bulbs in that fixture seem to glow even tho the power is off. Make no mistake, if you get between the two, you will get the full load of what is trying to utilize that path.

Hope this helps

Peace and Safe Grows

Asmallvoice


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## FranJan (Jan 5, 2013)

Thanks ASV, +rep to you for that answer. I had a feeling that the potential for a disaster was there. Looks like I gotta find an electrician to come in but I guess I'm gonna have to break down the flowering tent for that. What's the fire potential for the situation I'm in? I would hate to hurt anyone. Thanks again.


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## ASMALLVOICE (Jan 5, 2013)

FranJan said:


> Thanks ASV, +rep to you for that answer. I had a feeling that the potential for a disaster was there. Looks like I gotta find an electrician to come in but I guess I'm gonna have to break down the flowering tent for that. What's the fire potential for the situation I'm in? I would hate to hurt anyone. Thanks again.


The fire potential I see would come from an electrical device being "starved" for a return path to ground. Electricity only disapates in the form of heat. You can find out where the imbalance is originating from by systematically unplugging devices 1 at a time throughout the home untill you see the "glow" disappear from the led light. That has about a 95% chance of being successful. If the issue is on the power company's side, the "glow" will remain even after everything in the house has been unplugged or the breaker turned off( stove, a/c, heat and the likes that have no plug that is easily accessible). Then I would look into contacting the power company and have them verify things on thier side of your service ( faulty meter, loose ground or even a bad transformer could be the culprit)

Peace

Asmallvoice


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## FranJan (Jan 5, 2013)

Wow ASV you've given me a lot to think about. What did they say about ignorance again? It's bliss until you get shot through your tent in a blaze of glory, right? LOL Thanks again. I'll have to check back in when I get the ball rolling on this.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Jan 5, 2013)

We are considering ordering 2 of these. We built our own for our last room but think we want something like this and its gonna end up cheaper anyway.

Anyone used these?


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 5, 2013)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> We are considering ordering 2 of these. We built our own for our last room but think we want something like this and its gonna end up cheaper anyway.
> 
> Anyone used these?


sounds like you guys know what you are doing...will be 5x cheaper to build your own. 2x cheaper to have an electrician build you one.


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 5, 2013)

So I know this might be a long shot, but figured I'd try here given that I've already passed twice on a fan speed controller due to reading negative reviews.

But basically I bought an 8" duct fan, and ducting because I have an 8" in-duct ozone generator, and the fan is EGREGIOUSLY LOUD! 
I have this fan, but it moves 420CFM rather than the advertised..But I have the EXACT same duct fan

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Inch-400CFM-Duct-Fan-Booster-Inline-Cool-Air-Blower-Vent-F006-/270851294585?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0ffec579

My question is...Is there anyone out there using this duct fan with a fan speed controller? I've read that both the ones you can find on Amazon don't work(via Amazon reviews)
I dont have but like $35 invested in this fan so I'm not stressing about it. I'll just use it for now when I need to, but I'm looking for any fan speed controller that's universal and will work with duct fans. This fan is 120v 42w 60htz.

Thanks in advance if ANYONE has any help regarding this issue


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## Evo8Emperor (Jan 5, 2013)

Ok so I'm pulling to much power in my grow room and I am looking to run a sub panel into it. I am pretty capable and have wired in my own 220v breaker for a welder before. I also build houses for a living so I have an idea. 

My main question is just what gauge wire should I be looking to get to run about 25'. I want to run it as 220v to the sub panel if possible and from there run 220 and 110 sockets where I need.

I am going to be looking to run at a max of about 4-5k watts in lights. Then there's a couple water pumps, air pumps, and fans. So you figure maybe a max of about 6k watts. Oh and a a/c. 

What size breaker should i get for my main panel ? 

What size and how many breaker's should I get for the sub panel ? I'd probably like to run about 4-5 sockets with 4 plugs on each if that makes a difference which I think it would. lol.

On a different note I get to run that wire underneath my apartment through a crawl space that all dark and nasty. lol. Luckily its there so I think I will have a easy time just snaking the wire down and back up. While not having harmed the interior and when I leave I can just disconnect it and pull it out.

Thanks guys.


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## ASMALLVOICE (Jan 5, 2013)

Evo8Emperor said:


> Ok so I'm pulling to much power in my grow room and I am looking to run a sub panel into it. I am pretty capable and have wired in my own 220v breaker for a welder before. I also build houses for a living so I have an idea.
> 
> My main question is just what gauge wire should I be looking to get to run about 25'. I want to run it as 220v to the sub panel if possible and from there run 220 and 110 sockets where I need.
> 
> ...


At a minimum, a 60 amp main, run with #6 or you could bump it up to 70 and go with #4. Copper prices fluctuate regularly so it would be worth the effort to shop around a bit. but that would give you plenty of power and keep things cool and balanced in the process as well as a bit of room for future addons, like a dehumidifier, small heater and the likes.

Peace and Safe Grows

Asmallvoice


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## Evo8Emperor (Jan 6, 2013)

Thank you very much ASV. Just to clarify one other thing though. As for the other breakers in the sub panel what do I go with and how many plugs can be run off each ?

I'm guessing I would need to check my power ratings on lights, pump, and fans and just add it up and make sure I'm not over doing it in amperage and wattage for each breaker ?

Like for example if I want to go with 4 plugs sockets on each outlet where each one would need to be able to handle 1 light, fan, pump, and say a a/c or dehumidifier. This way each tent will be run off there own breaker. Say like 30amp breaker's for the 120 sub panel outlets and a 40amp for the 220 sub panel outlet ?

Oh and I should be getting a 70amp double pole breaker so i can run it as 220 to the sub panel as well right ? 

I'm thinking it would be nice to run outlet as 220v in the 4 outlet box. This way I can plug the lights in as 220 and cut down on some amperage and be a little safer. Plus I have plans on picking up a nice dual outlet 600 light that needs 220 as well.


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## ASMALLVOICE (Jan 6, 2013)

Evo8Emperor said:


> Thank you very much ASV. Just to clarify one other thing though. As for the other breakers in the sub panel what do I go with and how many plugs can be run off each ?
> 
> I'm guessing I would need to check my power ratings on lights, pump, and fans and just add it up and make sure I'm not over doing it in amperage and wattage for each breaker ?
> 
> ...


Try to have the lights on one breaker and all the incidental equipment ( fans, water and air pumps) on another so as to keep the load down and not rely solely on one breaker serving a entire crop. You can loose a light and get away with it for a spell, lose the pumps and air and the crop could be lost in a hurry.

Other than that, you are definently heading towards a bad ass grow room. 

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice


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## Evo8Emperor (Jan 6, 2013)

Ok. Yah I got ya. Good idea. I wasn't thinking along those lines yet. lol. That would have popped up later and I'd be re-working things. lol.

Thanks again ASV. Now I just need to get some money together this week hopefully and get that done. Still just spending, spending, spending and nothing coming in from the room sucks. lol. Just working still trying to get it all started again.


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## ASMALLVOICE (Jan 6, 2013)

Evo8Emperor said:


> Ok. Yah I got ya. Good idea. I wasn't thinking along those lines yet. lol. That would have popped up later and I'd be re-working things. lol.
> 
> Thanks again ASV. Now I just need to get some money together this week hopefully and get that done. Still just spending, spending, spending and nothing coming in from the room sucks. lol. Just working still trying to get it all started again.


Yea, getting setup took me the better part of 5 months before I popped the first seed. I must have reworked the venting and automation like 5 times before I was content, but I have mid level ocd and I give myself more grief than anything else..lol

Peace

Asmallvoice


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## smellzlikeskunkyum (Jan 10, 2013)

So i hope someone gets this msg kinda quick... Ive never used a magnetic ballast before. 
I recently hooked up my 1000w light which came with a magnetic switchable ballast.

I went into my flower area today, and the light was off  after looking at the timer. i realised the power to the recepticle i used must have somehow stopped. just the one too... im honestly not suprised by this. my house is super badly wired up and i would be pushing it had i got any more lights.

MY MAIN PROBLEM and or question: My magnetic ballast is not only making that humming noise but if u put your ear near it, it sound almost like a sizzle noise is coming from inside of it? wtf!? is my ballast not supposed to be making that noise?? im worried about it.


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## smellzlikeskunkyum (Jan 10, 2013)

im wondering if there could have been some sort of intermitten feed of electricity and that would maybe cause my ballast some sort of damage to make that noise?

I also have a 600 lumatek set up that isnt giving me ANY problems. its only the magnetic ballast. and it hasnt even been messed with at all, i dont understand why the noise started.


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## smellzlikeskunkyum (Jan 10, 2013)

this might sound dumb... but should i smell smoke if something inside the magnetic ballast is shorting and/or grounding out and sparking?

i dont smell any smoke at all. but im convinced that the noise sounds like electricity. ugh... it sux cuz the house is really badly set-up. so im so damn paranoid now... im considering un-plugging the stupid 1000 and finding someone who can open it up and check it out. am i on the right track here?

it just blows ass cuz this is disturbing my setup so badly. having both of the lights on is important to my temp control and all, the area is not heated. so im reluctant to unplug the 1000 cuz its working just fine except for the noise. but i have no idea why the original recpticle i was using all of a sudden is dead. 

if i drew too much power wouldnt i have blown a fuse/breaker?? the house being wired bad makes this part complicated. i dont know that something from the recepticle going out is the reason the ballast is making noise? is that even possible? it doesnt seem like it... but im no expert with electricity. only know the basics. 

im embarrassed: i even won a competition for auto-electrical like 10 years ago, go figure i didnt keep with it and now i cant even remember half of it.


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## smellzlikeskunkyum (Jan 10, 2013)

OMG after freakin out for the last hour or so... and being afraid to even turn anything on in my house like my toaster... I go and check out the ballast and its no longer making the sizzle noise and is doing just fine!?!? wtf!?!? 

so maybe the damn thing just makes that sizzle as it warms up? which i wouldnt understand why. 

and maybe the dead recepticle is a whole different situation that didnt have anything to do with it?? the recepticle is super old. im gonna have to replace it. i had an electrician in here once and he took off a recepticle to see if it was faulty. he couldnt even change the damn thing out cuz the way it was originally wired up was so jerry-rigged. 

it sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen, i know. thank god im almost always home.


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## Ilovebush (Jan 10, 2013)

Sounds like you might need a new service and upgraded panel. One piece of advice...don't take a chance with old wiring when it comes to such loads. It's a recipe for disaster especially if you burn down your house. ALWAYS use new wiring and receptacles/switches when it comes to these types of applications...there is too much that can go wrong. DO IT ONCE...DO IT RIGHT!


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## smellzlikeskunkyum (Jan 10, 2013)

just to let anyone reading know... everything is okay atm. only thing not going right is the single recepticle. which doesnt suprise me. ballast is making zero unexpected noise now. stable at the moment. gonna knock on some damn wood!

thank you for the response. i agree. the recpticle needs to be updated. all of them in the entire house need it. theres alot of other work it needs too.


Let this be a warning to anyone with a shaky set-up in a house they choose to grow in. not fun.


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## smellzlikeskunkyum (Jan 10, 2013)

You think id be safer with shelling out the dough temporarily for a digital 1000 ballast over this "switchable" magnetic one i have?? until i can fix the entire electric situation, which is going to be quite an undertaking.

Ive never had any issues like this running my 600 lumatek. it just works so much better, i figure its safer as well? is this not really the case?

im sry i sound like such a worry wart, and a newb. thx for any help i get!

EDIT: this is most likely going to be a situation where the stupid house needs to be sold in the first place. thats why im hinting at making it work in the safest way possible until either its fixed or sold. i just realized how someone may not understand that just going off what ive told so far. i mean u guys would sh!t if you saw how this place was put together. the plumbing, heat, structure, etc etc are also shot to hell.


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## Ilovebush (Jan 10, 2013)

Is there any way you can at least run a new circuit from the panel and a new plug temporarily into your grow? I wouldn't say that a digital ballast is safer regardless. I think the problem is with the line/circuit. Old wiring/receptacle...TROUBLE! If the breaker is faulty, you can overload the circuit and cause an fire behind a wall where it is not visible. Yeah you can fry the receptacle but it doesn't always go that way.


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## smellzlikeskunkyum (Jan 11, 2013)

well so far it seems ive made quite a difference with plugging in the lights to two seperate areas via extension cord and all. i think it was too much to have both lights plugged into the same extension cord like a dingy. i just figured since the cord said 1625W on it that id be okay putting both the 600 and the 1000 on it. i was wrong and nearly paid dearly for it. The magnetic ballast is working just fine... no sign of any issues what so ever. i think i know where the sound was coming from now... it was the stupid extension cord. im lucky i didnt cause a fire as many have said. also the stupid recepticle turned out to be all busted up inside in the first place... it turned out it wasnt my fault it doesnt work, but i should have never used it. it was just the first time id had ever plugged any thing into it really. yesterday was just a freakin crazy day... i cant find a timer i set somewhere, and while looking for it i must have nudged something and i heard a boom bang noise, looked in my flower room and two of my damn plants had fell down and completely spilled out of their containers... and i used a ton of perlite so they REALLY spilled. omg i screamed so damn loud!! 

atm, my temporary solution ive thought up is to slightly stagger the times that the lights fire on. making sure that they dont both start cold at the same time. and also make sure i have them on seperate lines.
i also had a little radiant space heater hooked up in there and im gonna have to find another way to keep the room warm when the lights go off. its nearly perfect with both lights on, a few fans, and no heat. its just the dark that gets me. i think i may have to find a more efficient little heater and put it on another timer.


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## TooDope1904 (Jan 12, 2013)

How would you go about wiring 4 600watt lights? I purchased JD Lights in 600 watts plus 240v cords. My question is will I be able to able to use atleast three lights without having to build a seperate circuit breaker? Will I be able to plug the 240v cord into my regular wall outlet?


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## weedlantern (Jan 12, 2013)

Hello I would like to try to establish contact with you before I begin a lighting setup. I would like a 3 hood x 600 watts. I need to know what kind of power source do I need to maintain that. Also does that much lighting raise red flags with the electric company?


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## TooDope1904 (Jan 14, 2013)

Would this be ideal to run 4x 600watt lights?

"Basically you would add a 50-100amp 240v breaker to your existing panel. Then run a line from that breaker to a small (12-16 circuit) breaker panel. Then you would use the breakers in that new panel to feed outlets for your equipment"


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## praiseodin (Jan 14, 2013)

Is there an easy and clean way of attaching 4-6 computer fans to one electrical plug?
Could i connect them all the a little junction strip that leads to the plug?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Jan 14, 2013)

as far as i know your better off wiring each individual fan to its own converter. maybe dig up 4 cell prone chargers and a power strip?

you might be able to get something at radio shack too.


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## EvlMunkee (Jan 15, 2013)

I just got a new 1000w ballast last night and wanted to turn it on to be sure it works. didn't want to overload the circuits that run my existing lights as they were on at the time. I used a circuit that has a GFCI receptacle and wasn't being used at all....20 amps. When I plugged it in it started to run for about a second and tripped the GFCI. The breaker didn't trip though. I reset and tried it again of course... same thing. Tried another empty circuit with a GFCI recep....same thing. So I waited until this morning and tried it on a normal circuit and it worked fine.
So here's my question: Do GFCI receptacles just get tired and need to be replaced? Or is there something about a large electronic ballast that pulls too much current too quickly for these types of circuits. I have run 1000w heating element devices on these circuits many times without a problem. Anyone know?


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## dsneezy916 (Jan 15, 2013)

hey man im so glad i found your thread! im going to be running 2 1000w in a 8x4 tent and i wanted to have a designated breaker for my "garden room" or is that overkill? im basically doubling my grow space and dont want to overload the breaker. would it be as simple as getting a higher amp breaker? i dont really want to run a new line as im renting and dont want to that with this property. the breaker box is on the opposite side of the house so ya it would be a pain in the ass to run a new line (i think) im a carpenter not an electrician...lol but if it wouldnt be too much please respond as im harvesting thurs. morn. and getting my new "garden" set up on fri. i just dont want the fridge, washer dryer, vaccum, hairdryer to trip the breaker i waqnt power to that room to be for that room ONLY! and any other recommendations you have are greatly appreciated. Thanks


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## Bigonezonly (Jan 15, 2013)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


I'm gonna be doing 4 x 600 with those exact ballasts in your pic in approx 10 by 10 space with a 8 inch out take and 6 intake with 3 oscillating fans and possibly an air on could you tell me how much electric ill be using? and btw I think your ballast set up is sick could you show me ?


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## supchaka (Jan 15, 2013)

dsneezy916 said:


> hey man im so glad i found your thread! im going to be running 2 1000w in a 8x4 tent and i wanted to have a designated breaker for my "garden room" or is that overkill? im basically doubling my grow space and dont want to overload the breaker. would it be as simple as getting a higher amp breaker? i dont really want to run a new line as im renting and dont want to that with this property. the breaker box is on the opposite side of the house so ya it would be a pain in the ass to run a new line (i think) im a carpenter not an electrician...lol but if it wouldnt be too much please respond as im harvesting thurs. morn. and getting my new "garden" set up on fri. i just dont want the fridge, washer dryer, vaccum, hairdryer to trip the breaker i waqnt power to that room to be for that room ONLY! and any other recommendations you have are greatly appreciated. Thanks


Definitely dont want to just add a bigger breaker. 15 amp circuits are 14 ga wire and 20 amp are 12 ga. Put a 20 amp on a 14 ga and ur going down a bad road.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 15, 2013)

supchaka said:


> Definitely dont want to just add a bigger breaker. 15 amp circuits are 14 ga wire and 20 amp are 12 ga. Put a 20 amp on a 14 ga and ur going down a bad road.


 a lot of newer construction uses 12 gauge wire for wiring up the house. plenty for 30amp breaker.


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## legaleyes13 (Jan 15, 2013)

Real simple question here... Will the average basement in a single family house, be able to support 4500 watts of light, plus an AC, CO2 gen and dehumidifier? Thanks....


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 16, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> Real simple question here... Will the average basement in a single family house, be able to support 4500 watts of light, plus an AC, CO2 gen and dehumidifier? Thanks....


depends on the service you have; 100 or 200amps. go to the main breaker panel and open it up. you should have a big breaker at the top of the panel in the middle seperate from the two columns of breakers. this is called the service disconnect or main breaker. on the actual tab/switch of this breaker it will say either 100, 125, 150, 175, 200, or 225. Anything above 175 and you'll be fine. anything below and you might have some issues. just depends on the house consumption.


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## machead (Jan 16, 2013)

Hi

Would like to ask would this http://www.greenpowercontactors.co.uk/8-way-contactor-timer.asp run off a single 20Amp MCB with 2.5mm twin an earth cable to a double socket then plug both the plugs from the timer into it or would it be better to run two 20 amp MCB with 2 single sockets on 2.5mm cable?

Regards


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## cosmoridez (Jan 16, 2013)

could some please help me whit my issues here at my thread (ballast questions lol need help) i dont want to burn m,y house down. thank you


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## TooDope1904 (Jan 16, 2013)

TooDope1904 said:


> Would this be ideal to run 4x 600watt lights?
> 
> "Basically you would add a 50-100amp 240v breaker to your existing panel. Then run a line from that breaker to a small (12-16 circuit) breaker panel. Then you would use the breakers in that new panel to feed outlets for your equipment"




X2 anyone care to answer?


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## cosmoridez (Jan 16, 2013)

Google 4 answer


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## supchaka (Jan 16, 2013)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> a lot of newer construction uses 12 gauge wire for wiring up the house. plenty for 30amp breaker.


Good point. I should have added to verify the existing wire size. Per code however it is 15 amp to 14 ga, 20a to 12ga and 30a to 10ga.


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## Darkjasper (Jan 16, 2013)

So I have a question that I have been trying to look for a answer for. I have a 12v .70 A 200mm computer fan that I am wanting to use as a intake for a 3x3 tent on the way. Problem is I only have a 12v .75A power adapter to splice and connect it to the fan. I was reading around and it looks like it would not cause any issues other than maybe running the fan a little quicker. Is my thinking correct in this?


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## Meowlistenhere (Jan 17, 2013)

TooDope1904 said:


> X2 anyone care to answer?


There's a couple different ways you could set it up. I always run heavier than i need because why not? Think future.If you have 200amp service, i would come off your main with 8g to a 100amp sub. From your sub you can run 12g to each separate 600 watt light. So each light will have it's own breaker, 4 breakers in your sub. And since you went heavy to your sub, you have more options for future add ons. Just make sure the leg you come off in your main isn't loaded. Dryer, stove etc.. Like i said there's a couple different ways depending on your service and type of panel and how your existing is set up. This is one way that is safe.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 17, 2013)

supchaka said:


> Good point. I should have added to verify the existing wire size. Per code however it is 15 amp to 14 ga, 20a to 12ga and 30a to 10ga.


google "wire ampacity chart." almost all building wire these days is THHN 90 degree. http://www.armstrongssupply.com/wire_chart.htm

12 gauge is rated for 30 amps.


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## mountainboy (Jan 17, 2013)

Guess I have a ballast/bulb question. My ballast says to relamp with M138/E bulb. I bought a M153/E bulb (never looked at box till I got home) the bulb I bought,also states on the box " use only with ANSI M153/E ballast. I'm not sure what type of ballast I have. I bought it new 1 year ago. It was a wall pack outdoor unit. I converted it to a remote ballast unit, so I could run the bulb in an air cooled hood.But threw the paper work away and now have no idea if its an ANSI M153/E ballast or not. Any ideas on what to do?


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## ASMALLVOICE (Jan 18, 2013)

mountainboy said:


> Guess I have a ballast/bulb question. My ballast says to relamp with M138/E bulb. I bought a M153/E bulb (never looked at box till I got home) the bulb I bought,also states on the box " use only with ANSI M153/E ballast. I'm not sure what type of ballast I have. I bought it new 1 year ago. It was a wall pack outdoor unit. I converted it to a remote ballast unit, so I could run the bulb in an air cooled hood.But threw the paper work away and now have no idea if its an ANSI M153/E ballast or not. Any ideas on what to do?


Hiya M8,

ANSI 138/E and 153/E are both Pulse Start MH Ballasts/Bulbs of the same family. They can be used in the same ballast as long as they are the proper rated wattage of course. So you are good to go.

Peace

Asmallvoice


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## mayhem01 (Jan 18, 2013)

No. The xfmr is capable of putting out a max of .75 the fan uses .70 the "power adapter" will put out exactly what the fan needs, up to the max. it will not overspeed the fan.


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## mountainboy (Jan 18, 2013)

ASMALLVOICE said:


> Hiya M8,
> 
> ANSI 138/E and 153/E are both Pulse Start MH Ballasts/Bulbs of the same family. They can be used in the same ballast as long as they are the proper rated wattage of course. So you are good to go.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Glad to hear it. Yes it is the same wattage.


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## smith4924 (Jan 19, 2013)

you could also run a heavier wire like 10/3 split of two 15amp breakers whiich you use the black and red as 2 different circuit 15amp each or if you really want use also the white (nutural) as another circuit---- im running 4 600watt hps 2 8inch 750 cfm fans co2 controller enviro controller 2 16inch wall fans and a quantum t-5 badboy with 16 bulbs all my equip. is 240v which cuts your usage down in half and i have no problems.....not allways a great idea to use the nutural unless you really need a 3rd circuit


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## HazeyBee (Jan 19, 2013)

Installing a fan... If I don't connect the ground wire, am I running any real risk/danger?


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## supchaka (Jan 19, 2013)

I follow the rule, if they made it with a ground then I'm going to run it with one. I have fans both with and without them.


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## Sand4x105 (Jan 19, 2013)

HazeyBee said:


> Installing a fan... If I don't connect the ground wire, am I running any real risk/danger?


Just of getting shocked... no big deal....

"Man Electricuted today working on his illegal cannabis grow.... News at 11..."

Always hook up the ground....


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## HazeyBee (Jan 19, 2013)

Sand4x105 said:


> "Man Electricuted today working on his illegal cannabis grow.... News at 11..."


Ha. Aye-Aye Cap'n *Sand4x105*!


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## toooom (Jan 20, 2013)

So I went o Home Depot and they had 2 2' t5 fixtures for $20 so I picked 2 of them up for my veg tent that has 6 seedlings about 4" tall. Anyways, they were just the fixture and bulbs with wire to be wired to romex or whatever inside a ceiling. So I grabbed the male ended cord with the white green and black wires on the other end and connected them to the green black and white wire on the fixture so i could plug it into a regular outlet. When i plugged it in (I read somewhere online i could just plug them in like that) they lit up for about 5 sec and then my breaker popped. It stays popped now, when i go to my breaker box to flip the switch it wont stay on. Im a plumber not an electrician so any advice??


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## wheels619 (Jan 22, 2013)

so i need to run a nit of an extension cord that really isnt going to be moved once ran. also its going to be out of the way of foot traffic hung in the rafters. i guess my question is will a 50 ft run of type NM-B 10/2 be enough to supply 30 amps and 4000 watts to my new location from a 30 amp dryer outlet with the correct ends since the ground in the cable is not insulated but the others are? or should i go with some 10/3 sjo instead? problem lies in it being twice the cost. can i make it work or should i spend the cash for the good stuff so i dont burn my casa down? lol.


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## brad118 (Jan 29, 2013)

hi i have a 6oow compact magnetic ballast with a philips 600w hps bulb when its been on for about 6 hours it starts to make a loud buzzing noise for about 10 seconds then stops for a minute and starts again. and i think it stops after about 1 hour i think i have heard it before when i plugged a extra fan into the ring main (circuit) it buzzed the same for about ten seconds but i checked the amps and i have plenty to spare i checked all the connections from ballast to bulb and they are all fine. any help


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## ASMALLVOICE (Jan 29, 2013)

brad118 said:


> hi i have a 6oow compact magnetic ballast with a philips 600w hps bulb when its been on for about 6 hours it starts to make a loud buzzing noise for about 10 seconds then stops for a minute and starts again. and i think it stops after about 1 hour i think i have heard it before when i plugged a extra fan into the ring main (circuit) it buzzed the same for about ten seconds but i checked the amps and i have plenty to spare i checked all the connections from ballast to bulb and they are all fine. any help


Magnetic ballasts are inherently "dirty" power users. They actually have a warmup and a cool down cycle during normal operation. How old is the ballast and you really should have it on its own circuit if possible.

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice


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## bottletoke (Jan 30, 2013)

brad118 said:


> hi i have a 6oow compact magnetic ballast with a philips 600w hps bulb when its been on for about 6 hours it starts to make a loud buzzing noise for about 10 seconds then stops for a minute and starts again. and i think it stops after about 1 hour i think i have heard it before when i plugged a extra fan into the ring main (circuit) it buzzed the same for about ten seconds but i checked the amps and i have plenty to spare i checked all the connections from ballast to bulb and they are all fine. any help


Sounds like your capacitor is going.


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## IgnatiusWakefield (Jan 31, 2013)

I'm about to start a grow in my attic but there are no visible outlets. Could i run the power form the same place my fan gets it from?


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## wheels619 (Jan 31, 2013)

bottletoke said:


> Sounds like your capacitor is going.


the flux capacitor? lol.


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## Shrimpn (Feb 4, 2013)

Thanks in advance for any help or input. I am open ears to any suggestions. 

sorry if my explanation isn't clear. I have provided some pictures if that helps as well.

light set up:
9x20 sealed room. Coco grow. LSD and G13 haze. Sub panel, 40amp brkr to intermatic timer to ballast, then all ballast output wired to main cable with 4 raptors, 1000 watt each. All 4 lights are cycling. When I turn on the power to the lights #1 lights up, then goes out after a min, then #2 lights up for a min, then goes out, #3 same, #4 same. This cycle repeats it's self until i cut the power. In the past I have used a light controller to get them going however in my new set up I was hoping to have 1 main cable with (4) individual 240v receptacles' in the room that I can plug the hoods into vs plugging directly into the ballasts. Not to mention cut down on cord cost.. So for the time being, I have unplugged 3 hoods and 3 ballast and my first light will stay on no prob...but my girls are begging for their own space.

For the last two weeks I have been scratching my head trying to figure out this last step in my flower room. Do I need a 30amp relay between the ballasts output and the main cable feeding my room? Also would a flop be best if I want to add a second flower room to run off these ballast?

Thanks again for any input. Virtual tokes to all. This forum has helped me and my room in so many ways.. :O)


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## wheels619 (Feb 4, 2013)

Shrimpn said:


> Thanks in advance for any help or input. I am open ears to any suggestions.
> 
> sorry if my explanation isn't clear. I have provided some pictures if that helps as well.
> 
> ...


well now theres your problem. lol. 

dude that looks like a hot mess. are all the ballasts feeding to one cable then back off to separate hoods? im not sure the ignitors in the ballasts will work properly to fire the bulbs wired like that. but im not exactly an expert. i did my homework for my application and decided that a lighting controller was the way to go. on a side note id love to see it running full steam.


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## Shrimpn (Feb 4, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> well now theres your problem. lol.
> 
> dude that looks like a hot mess. are all the ballasts feeding to one cable then back off to separate hoods? im not sure the ignitors in the ballasts will work properly to fire the bulbs wired like that. but im not exactly an expert. i did my homework for my application and decided that a lighting controller was the way to go. on a side note id love to see it running full steam.


lol. yup exactly. The light cords from the ballasts to the 1 main coord for the room that has 4 240v recepticles. I figured it would send the 4k down the line for the hoods....maybe not lol...It seems this should work with a relay or contactor??


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## wheels619 (Feb 4, 2013)

Shrimpn said:


> lol. yup exactly. The light cords from the ballasts to the 1 main coord for the room that has 4 240v recepticles. I figured it would send the 4k down the line for the hoods....maybe not lol...It seems this should work with a relay or contactor??


not sure. in all honesty im not sure you can run the ballasts setup like that. theoretically it should work but i have a feeling that one good pulse to fire the bulbs isnt strong enough to fire all 4 bulbs at once hooked together. so when it fires the first it lights but not the rest then it fires the next stealing the thunder from the last one. i know you can run multiple smaller bulbs an a larger ballast like 4 250 watters on a 1000 ballast but this is kinda out of my electrical experience. i still think the problem lies in the hoods all being wired together.


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## supchaka (Feb 4, 2013)

I want to see the pics after you burn your place down. Spend a few hundred bucks and get a light controller for the love of god. it doesn't look like you're running the right gauge wire for the circuit either... Hopefully you're only endangering yourself and not innocent people.


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## Shrimpn (Feb 4, 2013)

supchaka said:


> I want to see the pics after you burn your place down. Spend a few hundred bucks and get a light controller for the love of god. it doesn't look like you're running the right gauge wire for the circuit either... Hopefully you're only endangering yourself and not innocent people.


ehhhhh no..nice try champ.

Everything was done by an electrician up to the ballast and up to code. I tried to finish the last part and the one light has been running fine with the connections the way they are. I have seen this done with one main with 4 ballast feeding the main. Just trying to find someone who might know how rather than chump it....


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## Shrimpn (Feb 4, 2013)

Here is a great example. 4 ballast feeding one main to the room where you plug the 4 lights in vs plugging it them direct to the ballast


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## Shrimpn (Feb 4, 2013)

so instead of surfing today what I did is ran 16/3 soow cord from each ballast to it's light hood. The intermatic timer kicks on and all the lights are going at once. All good but I would still like to know how I can run the 4 lights with the 4 ballast on 1 main into my room that the lights plug into. Any advice would be sweeeeet!


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## wheels619 (Feb 5, 2013)

Shrimpn said:


> ehhhhh no..nice try champ.
> 
> Everything was done by an electrician up to the ballast and up to code. I tried to finish the last part and the one light has been running fine with the connections the way they are. I have seen this done with one main with 4 ballast feeding the main. Just trying to find someone who might know how rather than chump it....


what ballasts brand and model are you running? some older magnetic ballasts wont ignite the bulbs on a run longer than 30 ft. i been doing a little research trying to figure it out what could be up but im still stumped dude. if everything was hooked up correctly then theoretically they should all fire. hmm...


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## wheels619 (Feb 5, 2013)

Shrimpn said:


> so instead of surfing today what I did is ran 16/3 soow cord from each ballast to it's light hood. The intermatic timer kicks on and all the lights are going at once. All good but I would still like to know how I can run the 4 lights with the 4 ballast on 1 main into my room that the lights plug into. Any advice would be sweeeeet!


well the ballasts work individually with the hoods so maybe its just wired wrong up to the ballasts. one of the plugs maybe wired in wrong maybe backwards or something.


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## Conradpizarro23 (Feb 5, 2013)

Hi there I'm trying to connect my ballast. Socket and electrical cord.. Please help here is a pic


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## wheels619 (Feb 5, 2013)

Conradpizarro23 said:


> Hi there I'm trying to connect my ballast. Socket and electrical cord.. Please help here is a pic


hps ballast? here minus ur socket or bulb base.
View attachment 2513084


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## wheels619 (Feb 5, 2013)

Conradpizarro23 said:


> Hi there I'm trying to connect my ballast. Socket and electrical cord.. Please help here is a pic


kinda a pain in the ass to explain how to wire it up when the wires are all white and im not there to see it. lol.


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## steve28 (Feb 5, 2013)

i have my 600w ballast plugged into one outlet and a surge protector with a 6 in inline and 4 in inline fan with 2 other small fans plugged into a dif outlet on the other wall, is that okay?


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## wheels619 (Feb 6, 2013)

steve28 said:


> i have my 600w ballast plugged into one outlet and a surge protector with a 6 in inline and 4 in inline fan with 2 other small fans plugged into a dif outlet on the other wall, is that okay?


wattage is 600+ 115 or so for each fan + 30 watts or so for the smaller fans to be generous. so 600+115+115+30+30=890 total wattage. 890watts/110volts= 8.09 amps. your well under the load your outlet can handle my friend. your wall outlet should at least be rated for at least 10 amps of power. its normally 15 amps on newer houses and apartments. also make sure your surge protector is rated for 15 amps. most are unless you have the cheap Walmart 3 dollar one.


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## supchaka (Feb 6, 2013)

steve28 said:


> i have my 600w ballast plugged into one outlet and a surge protector with a 6 in inline and 4 in inline fan with 2 other small fans plugged into a dif outlet on the other wall, is that okay?


I'd look at what exactly I'm using as far as circuits and if other stuff in your house is on them. It's important stuff to know IMO. If its a single circuit and all that stuff is on it alone though yeah it's fine.


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## hiitsbob (Feb 6, 2013)

making sure this is correct. for parallel wiring cfl lights. 12 23w cfl at most 23w x 12 bulbs = 276w i will say 300w for safety. 300w/120v= 2.5 amps which i will call 3 amps for safety.
will be running 12g wire approx 10 feet. there is no ground? will be wiring to a surge protector just want to be safe. so i need a 12/2 wire?
i do not need pig tails i can go black to black to black and red to ted to red?


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## Lucius Vorenus (Feb 6, 2013)

Anyone know what it costs to turn a 2 phase electric panel outside a commercial location into a 3 phase? we currently have only 200amps coming into our space and we really need 400 for summer when we add a couple more AC units.


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## supchaka (Feb 6, 2013)

hiitsbob said:


> making sure this is correct. for parallel wiring cfl lights. 12 23w cfl at most 23w x 12 bulbs = 276w i will say 300w for safety. 300w/120v= 2.5 amps which i will call 3 amps for safety.
> will be running 12g wire approx 10 feet. there is no ground? will be wiring to a surge protector just want to be safe. so i need a 12/2 wire?
> i do not need pig tails i can go black to black to black and red to ted to red?


yeah you could get away with a 14 or even 16 ga wire if its just running those lights.


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## wheels619 (Feb 6, 2013)

hiitsbob said:


> making sure this is correct. for parallel wiring cfl lights. 12 23w cfl at most 23w x 12 bulbs = 276w i will say 300w for safety. 300w/120v= 2.5 amps which i will call 3 amps for safety.
> will be running 12g wire approx 10 feet. there is no ground? will be wiring to a surge protector just want to be safe. so i need a 12/2 wire?
> i do not need pig tails i can go black to black to black and red to ted to red?


12g wiring is more than enough to wire in 300 watts of cfls. although cfls are horrible wasters of power for the penetration. you may be better off just packing a 250 mh or even a 400 mh in your space. they both have great penetration compared to the cfls and are relatively cheap. also you can wire them that way yes. i had a box with like 20 cfls in it at one point. lmao.

heres a few options to look at. all are 250watts also 400 watts wouldnt cost but a few bucks more.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250w-Dimmable-Ballast-6-Air-Cool-Tube-Reflector-250-Watt-HPS-MH-Grow-Light-Kit-/140897376591?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20ce23594f

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250-Watts-Digital-HPS-MH-Grow-Light-Giant-Hood-Sun-Lamp-Reflector-Ballast-250W-/140914005056?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20cf211440

http://www.ebay.com/itm/iPower-250w-250-watt-HPS-MH-Grow-Light-System-Set-Kit-cheaper-than-400w-400-watt-/160660676488?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item25681f5f88


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## hiitsbob (Feb 6, 2013)

i know everybody keeps saying but i have around $40 in all my lights had some sitting around and what not. 
had to go cheap so the cost of whole setup is similar to just the light.
eventually yes i will get those lights but for now its learn and get best bud possible.
plus to be honest i think i will have good yeilds. will have around 30,000 lumens for a 4 sqft space.
let time be the judge of this we will see. you are right less screwing around with mh lights. but would like to learn a bit first.
by the way ended up with 14g wire. yes it will be just the lights.
thanks
bob


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## steve28 (Feb 7, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> wattage is 600+ 115 or so for each fan + 30 watts or so for the smaller fans to be generous. so 600+115+115+30+30=890 total wattage. 890watts/110volts= 8.09 amps. your well under the load your outlet can handle my friend. your wall outlet should at least be rated for at least 10 amps of power. its normally 15 amps on newer houses and apartments. also make sure your surge protector is rated for 15 amps. most are unless you have the cheap Walmart 3 dollar one.


ok sweet thanks bro! i started getting nervous reading some of the posts on here ha


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## Shawns (Feb 7, 2013)

when they built my new house I had them upgrade to a 200amp from a 100amp and if I'm not mistaken you have to get your local electrical company involved because they may have to but in a different transformer that feeds your building and that gets expensive but I live in the country so it may be different,For mine they had to but in a bigger transformer and obviously a bigger line, I would just call your local electrician and they could tell you better


Lucius Vorenus said:


> Anyone know what it costs to turn a 2 phase electric panel outside a commercial location into a 3 phase? we currently have only 200amps coming into our space and we really need 400 for summer when we add a couple more AC units.


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## wheels619 (Feb 7, 2013)

steve28 said:


> ok sweet thanks bro! i started getting nervous reading some of the posts on here ha


nothing to worry about. just make sure that you are aware how many outlets are on that one 15 amp breaker. some of the older places wired 2-3 bedrooms up on one 15 amp sometimes which could be an issue. but i doubt it. just make sure that you dont run a bunch of electronics in the same room. most rooms are on the same breaker also it honestly depends on when your house was built and what the building and electrical code might have been at the time. just be aware. your breaker should trip before anything bad actually happens and if it does you may have too much hooked up in another room thats on the same breaker. also a little food for thought. an average desktop comp has a 400 watt power supply on it. lol. enough to run one 400 watt hps instead.  lol.


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## wheels619 (Feb 7, 2013)

Shawns said:


> when they built my new house I had them upgrade to a 200amp from a 100amp and if I'm not mistaken you have to get your local electrical company involved because they may have to but in a different transformer that feeds your building and that gets expensive but I live in the country so it may be different,For mine they had to but in a bigger transformer and obviously a bigger line, I would just call your local electrician and they could tell you better


yeah the power company would have to come out if you installed a 200 amp breaker. they have to do some shit in the box to give you that much accessible juice. as to what tit is that they do. im not sure since ive never had to do it before. but had a buddy that did and he said it was a hassle setting up everything with the electrician and the power company at the same time to get the work done faster and so they had no down time. he had to wait a few days for the power company.


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## legaleyes13 (Feb 8, 2013)

Hey man, thanks a lot for this thread it's really helpful... When I get up and running again, my peak wattage use may go up to 7150 for the period that my flowering room and veg room overlap... can a typical basement handle this? I'm completely ignorant to this stuff, but I do understand that my outlets are gonna be 15amps... so does it mean that so long as I have about 5-7 outlets, that I'll be alright.


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## supchaka (Feb 8, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> Hey man, thanks a lot for this thread it's really helpful... When I get up and running again, my peak wattage use may go up to 7150 for the period that my flowering room and veg room overlap... can a typical basement handle this? I'm completely ignorant to this stuff, but I do understand that my outlets are gonna be 15amps... so does it mean that so long as I have about 5-7 outlets, that I'll be alright.


If thats one 15 amp circuit in the basement you arent even close. Using a 85% load for safety you are looking at 5 individual 15 amp circuits. 7150 watts is 65 amps at 110. You could get by with 4 20 amp circuits, might want to run 220 for the lighting and use the 110 for the accessories.


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## legaleyes13 (Feb 8, 2013)

@supchucka - I don't know what any of that means... I'm really ignorant to this electrical stuff. I do know that I've run about 5000 watts in a single basement before, so is 2000 more watts really that much of a difference? If it isn't too much to ask could you walk me through what it would mean to get all of that stuff installed? I'm renting the home, but my landlord wouldn't notice...Will a home in the US, support 220 without any extra installation?


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## silverhazefiend (Feb 9, 2013)

^^^ similar situation ..

But I'm only gonna run 1800 watts I wanna kno if I can... (If I can run more Im going 2) 

Can I use the the light controller and 30 amp relay that goes with it and run it like that 220v ballast ..it's a building so idk the amp breaker ....I kno people that have washing machines in there apartment kitchen so I kno it's possible ..and they did no extra work 

15-20 amp breaker (let's say 15)
2.7 amps x 3= 8.1 
85% load is 12.75 amps ..
Ac 4.5 amps + 8.1(summer time) 
= 12.60 amps a lil less than 85% load 

Total watts 2300 is that to much ? It's only gonna be at 23 for 2-3 months but rest of the yr 2000 tops ..I would isolate the circuit so there's nothing else on it ..

Also I don't wanna spend to much and keep it simple but still fully controllable ..I'm looking ah the MDT 1 + the HPH 4 30 amp relay is that good ?


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## supchaka (Feb 9, 2013)

I don't understand the math in your 3rd paragraph. What is the 2.7x3 in regards to? Are you running 3 items that have 2.7 amps? I'd take a meter and check an outlet to be positive what it is from 110-120v multiply that by the amps of the breaker and that's the total wattage. Then take 85% of the total and that's the max you should run on that circuit. 

At 110v it's 1650 at 120v it's 1800. That's before taking off 15% of either.


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## wheels619 (Feb 9, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> Hey man, thanks a lot for this thread it's really helpful... When I get up and running again, my peak wattage use may go up to 7150 for the period that my flowering room and veg room overlap... can a typical basement handle this? I'm completely ignorant to this stuff, but I do understand that my outlets are gonna be 15amps... so does it mean that so long as I have about 5-7 outlets, that I'll be alright.


at 220 volts your amperage will be roughly 32.5 amps. at 120 or 110 its going to be double that. may i make a suggestion? get a light controller for a couple hundred bucks off of ebay and run 6 gauge cable from a 240 volt breaker. it you grab an 8 light controller you can run all 8 lights on it. or you can get 2 4 light lighting controllers hooked up with a few 30 amp breakers. which is the easiest to consider. look up lighting controllers on ebay. they have all sorts from 100 bucks up to 600+ so they should have something in the range you are looking for. if you wire in 120v outlets it will take 5+ 15 amps to run the voltage and amperage you would want to achieve safely. it will only take one if you run 240 and you can run just about your whole op on the one controller if you get big enough. might i suggest sunlight supplies 50 amp 240 lighting controller. it doesnt look all fancy but its cheap and gets the job done correctly and if something dies parts are easily replaceable and you only have to install and run one set of cables and one breaker instead of 5. also the cabling looks expensive for a single run of 6/3 cable or romex but trust me its cheaper than running 5-6 120 volt cables with 5-6 15 amp breakers installed. also you might want to concider running another 30 amp lighting controller if you have a shit ton of lights. in my instance im going to use a titan helios 4 lighting controller for flower and im going to use another eventually for veg. both running on their own 30 amp breakers. one for flower with 4 1000s in flower and the other in veg with 4 600s or so.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-Amp-Light-Controller-120-240v-24-hrs-Timer-Box-Bulb-/290532368204?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a5141f4c

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Autopilot-High-Power-8-Light-HID-Controller-8000W-120-240V-50A-/251074069684?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a752e44b4

http://www.ebay.com/itm/C-A-P-4-Light-Master-Lighting-Controller-MLC-4x-/280536980173?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41514e9acd

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-C-A-P-MLC-8X-8-HID-Grow-Light-Master-Lighting-Controller-Ballast-120v-240v-/281041289930?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416f5dc2ca

hers a few options on lighting controllers if this is the route u decide to take. also your dryer line is a 30 amp dedicated circuit. or at least should be.  its what my lighting controller is running on now. lol.


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## wheels619 (Feb 9, 2013)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HELIOS-8-8-LIGHT-240V-CONTROLLER-WITH-/110963318212?pt=Planters_Pots&hash=item19d5edddc4

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Titan-Controls-Helios-12-8-Light-240v-Light-Controller-hydroponic-timer-120v-/130603683402?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e68960e4a

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TITAN-CONTROLS-HELIOS-4-4-LIGHT-240V-CONTROL-W-TRIG-/360375537632?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e80e4fe0


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## wheels619 (Feb 9, 2013)

silverhazefiend said:


> ^^^ similar situation ..
> 
> But I'm only gonna run 1800 watts I wanna kno if I can... (If I can run more Im going 2)
> 
> ...


how many lights are you running? if you are running 3 400s then run them off of one wall outlet with a timer. its still pulling less than recommended on the outlet and you dont have to spend money on costly items like lighting controllers and all that jazz. and run the fans off another outlet with an extension cord. becuz even with a 30 amp dryer outlet already installed it will cost you about 60-120 bucks for the cables and then another 15 for the dryer adapter for the cables and at least another 100 bucks on a controller. also you may need to buy 240 wiring to power your ballasts at about 10 bucks a piece if you dont already have them. its not a simple switch at all. unless you wanted to run it off of a 120v lighting controller and if thats the case can i say just buy a 10 dollar power strip from walmart. lol. but seriously how many watts and amps and ballasts are you running?


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## wheels619 (Feb 9, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> how many lights are you running? if you are running 3 400s then run them off of one wall outlet with a timer. its still pulling less than recommended on the outlet and you dont have to spend money on costly items like lighting controllers and all that jazz. and run the fans off another outlet with an extension cord. becuz even with a 30 amp dryer outlet already installed it will cost you about 60-120 bucks for the cables and then another 15 for the dryer adapter for the cables and at least another 100 bucks on a controller. also you may need to buy 240 wiring to power your ballasts at about 10 bucks a piece if you dont already have them. its not a simple switch at all. unless you wanted to run it off of a 120v lighting controller and if thats the case can i say just buy a 10 dollar power strip from walmart. lol. but seriously how many watts and amps and ballasts are you running?


i need a little more info to get a better picture. total wattage amount of ballasts to figure out the right amp breakers and what wattage your ballasts wattages actually are. 400 600 1000 and if you are planning a veg area.


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## Malevolence (Feb 9, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> also a little food for thought. an average desktop comp has a 400 watt power supply on it. lol. enough to run one 400 watt hps instead.  lol.


Modern computer power supplies only pull enough current to provide energy required by the components. In other words, your PC isn't drawing 400w while you dick around on RIU and check your email. The graphics card draws the most power of all the components, but it needs to be under load from playing a video game or rendering video or something to reach your PSU's capacity limit (in most cases). Additionally... many components implement energy saving features, such as the CPU and GPU underclocking when not under load.

So you can't really compare the energy use of computer PSUs to HID lighting.

My home desktop has a 750w Corsair PSU with a single 12v rail at 62 amps... just a fun fact.


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## silverhazefiend (Feb 9, 2013)

Sorry for being so vague 

Gavita pro 600s only run on 240v 
I wanna run 3 of them ..
There rated at 2.7 amps

I also wanna run a 500 watt ac rated at 4.1 amps ..this I can run from a wall outlet + fans etc ..I'm good on this part 

My question is can I run these off a lighting controller or a step up /step down transformer ..I've seen transformer that are built for continuous power usage and can handle big loads ..

Gavita pros ONLY RUN ON 240v our outlets are rated at 110 ..do u see my issue ?

I wanted a veg area in that room 250 watts or less should do it ..but I can find another spot for that if I have to


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## legaleyes13 (Feb 9, 2013)

@wheels619 - Thanks for all of your help... you too supchucka... but again, I know nothing about this electrical stuff. Is running this 6 gauge cable gonna require an electrician... and will I have to install this 240v breaker or is it something that comes with the home... I'm sure I sound like a newbie to you guys... I'm not, I've been growing for some time, but never had to deal with electrical issues. If you could walk me through this as if I was deaf, blind and dumb... I would really appreciate it... For the record it's 4000watts of light in flower, and 525watts of light in veg/clone, along with AC, dehum, CO2 gen, and misc... Thanks again fellas, I really appreciate all of your help...(And for the record the "Reply with Quote" button isn't working for me for some reason... sorry about the format)


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## wheels619 (Feb 10, 2013)

Malevolence said:


> Modern computer power supplies only pull enough current to provide energy required by the components. In other words, your PC isn't drawing 400w while you dick around on RIU and check your email. The graphics card draws the most power of all the components, but it needs to be under load from playing a video game or rendering video or something to reach your PSU's capacity limit (in most cases). Additionally... many components implement energy saving features, such as the CPU and GPU underclocking when not under load.
> 
> So you can't really compare the energy use of computer PSUs to HID lighting.
> 
> My home desktop has a 750w Corsair PSU with a single 12v rail at 62 amps... just a fun fact.


again ridiculousness. lol. my older power supply was actually pulling 400 watts. lmao. i only know this becuz of the load the breaker had tripped at. point being a desktop computer is capable of pulling a a lot more wattage than you think.


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## legaleyes13 (Feb 10, 2013)

So wheels, once I got an electrician to install 2 240v 30amp breakers, would wiring the the 6 gauge cable to the light controllers be something easy that I could do on my own?


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## wheels619 (Feb 10, 2013)

silverhazefiend said:


> Sorry for being so vague
> 
> Gavita pro 600s only run on 240v
> I wanna run 3 of them ..
> ...


once you hook the lighting controller up you pretty much get rid of all the step down stuff on that circuit. also im not sure on the costs since ive never actually looked into it. but could be worth a try if its cheap enough. altho you can run say 50 amp wiring and bridge it off at 30 amps of 240 for the flower side and then run another 20 amps of 240 for your veg side. in all honesty you wont need all the amperage provided with the amount of power your pulling. if you were running 1000s id say yes. you can pull the lighting you need off of that one cable just spliced into 2 with a few lighting controllers. also if you really need power for the ac run it and all the other essentials off the wall outlet. if the ac is only pulling 500 at 4.1 amps you still have plenty of room on the outlet for all the wall and inline fans no problem. inline fans pull a little over an amp by themselves but not by much.


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## wheels619 (Feb 10, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> So wheels, once I got an electrician to install 2 220v 30amp breakers, would wiring the the 6 gauge to the light controllers be something easy that I could do on my own?


if you r running two separate 30 amps 220-240 volt breakers its a total of 6 screws for 2 separate controllers. its super easy to wire it up once you have it sitting in front of you. its 3 wires total for each. the 2 hots and the common. remember. 2 Hots and 1 common. so dont mistake that shit for a ground. lol. it doesnt matter which hot goes to which hot spot becuz each is 110-120 volts. so 120+120=240. to be honest as long as the common is in the right place you are ok. its as simple as choosing a few colors for the hots and screwing a few Phillips screws down. make sure you dont confuse the hots with the common. bad juju. lol. any questions let me know.


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## wheels619 (Feb 10, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> So wheels, once I got an electrician to install 2 240v 30amp breakers, would wiring the the 6 gauge cable to the light controllers be something easy that I could do on my own?


also if you r wiring 2 30 amp outlets all you need is 8-10 gauge wiring for each. 8 max is needed. i personally ran 10 gauge for 30 amps of lighting controller. anything else is overkill unless you intend on making it a true 50 amp 240 breaker someday.


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## wheels619 (Feb 10, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> @wheels619 - Thanks for all of your help... you too supchucka... but again, I know nothing about this electrical stuff. Is running this 6 gauge cable gonna require an electrician... and will I have to install this 240v breaker or is it something that comes with the home... I'm sure I sound like a newbie to you guys... I'm not, I've been growing for some time, but never had to deal with electrical issues. If you could walk me through this as if I was deaf, blind and dumb... I would really appreciate it... For the record it's 4000watts of light in flower, and 525watts of light in veg/clone, along with AC, dehum, CO2 gen, and misc... Thanks again fellas, I really appreciate all of your help...(And for the record the "Reply with Quote" button isn't working for me for some reason... sorry about the format)


if you have no electrical experience at all id recommend having an electrician install the breakers and run the wiring. once the wiring is in place connecting everything is simple. just make sure you flip the breaker to off before fucking with stuff. lol.


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## legaleyes13 (Feb 10, 2013)

You're the man wheels... I have no idea what a hot or a ground is, so I'll go do some research... and one last thing... do I really need 2 30amp breakers? Wouldn't 1 be enough if I just run the rest of my stuff off the regular outlets? afterall, my veg/clone is only using 525watts worth of light and a few misc items... Oh yeah, would I be able to run the my AC, dehum, and CO2 gen off of one of those 30amp breakers if it was wired to a light controller?


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## wheels619 (Feb 10, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> You're the man wheels... I have no idea what a hot or a ground is, so I'll go do some research... and one last thing... do I really need 2 30amp breakers? Wouldn't 1 be enough if I just run the rest of my stuff off the regular outlets? afterall, my veg/clone is only using 525watts worth of light and a few misc items... Oh yeah, would I be able to run the my AC, dehum, and CO2 gen off of one of those 30amp breakers if it was wired to a light controller?


Mmmm. dehum and ac and veg lights is another story. maybe the ac and lights but not the dehum on top of it all. 2 out of the 3 things will keep you under load but once you run the 3rd it will pop the breaker. have you ever considered running another 120 volt 15 amp outlet to the space with a 2 light lighting controller or even a power strip with a timer on it for your veg ,lights and ac. then run the rest off the existing outlet? way cheaper than running a second 240. also ask your electrician whats up. he should have an idea of what you will need to run that kind of power better than i since he can see whats in front of him and can do all the calculations down to the dotted i.


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## legaleyes13 (Feb 10, 2013)

To be honest, I haven't even moved in the place yet so I'm not sure, but I think there will be several 15amp outlets in the basement... I really don't see why there wouldn't be. I didn't know it was unusual to have many outlets in a basement.... The last place I was in had several, and I was able to run about 5000watts of power by just plugging everything in to several different outlets... this is why all of this talk of installation came as a bit of a surprise to me...


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## wheels619 (Feb 10, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> You're the man wheels... I have no idea what a hot or a ground is, so I'll go do some research... and one last thing... do I really need 2 30amp breakers? Wouldn't 1 be enough if I just run the rest of my stuff off the regular outlets? afterall, my veg/clone is only using 525watts worth of light and a few misc items... Oh yeah, would I be able to run the my AC, dehum, and CO2 gen off of one of those 30amp breakers if it was wired to a light controller?


look on google for 30 amp 240 volt wiring diagrams and stuff. the image section is pretty decent with a few pics to give you an idea of how to wire them up safely. gives you a better picture than just choosing wire colors. lol. also make sure to ask you electrician to label the cables for you. hots and commons since most people hooking up wiring for grow ops dont use building code to wire everything.


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## wheels619 (Feb 10, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> To be honest, I haven't even moved in the place yet so I'm not sure, but I think there will be several 15amp outlets in the basement... I really don't see why there wouldn't be. I didn't know it was unusual to have many outlets in a basement.... The last place I had several, and I was able to run about 5000watts of power by just plugging everything in to several different outlets... this is why all of this talk of installation came as a bit of a surprise to me...


holy crap you hooked 5000 watts up in the same room on the wall outlets? lol. they miust have all been wired with their own 15 amp breakers. i cant even plug two lights in in the same room without blowing the breakers. lmao. you got lucky my friend.


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## wheels619 (Feb 10, 2013)

oh now that i think about it you could [probably run a 20 amp 120 outlet to the room and be able to run everything off of it. the ac, dehum and veg lights. sorry was high and it just crossed my mind. plenty of options dude you just gotta look at options and do your homework before deciding to go ahead with this project becuz its gonna cost a pretty penny and no one likes wasting such beautiful pennies. lol


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## legaleyes13 (Feb 10, 2013)

lol... yeah, I figured I got lucky and wouldn't be so lucky at this next place, so I came here so I'd know what to do when things didn't go so smoothly... And you're helping me out plenty. But I gotta admit, I'm confused about how I'd be able to use breakers that are dedicated to a light controller... I thought that as soon as I hook up the 6 gauge cable to the controller it would mean that all I could use the breaker for, is the controller itself, and whatever I plug into it... I'm sure I'm off base, but I don't understand where I'd be able to plug in any other appliances, as far as the breaker is concerned... but thanks all the same man, I'm pretty sure I'm about a post away from annoying you with what are probably obvious questions, so I'll bow out after you respond... thanks


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## Figong (Feb 10, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> oh now that i think about it you could [probably run a 20 amp 120 outlet to the room and be able to run everything off of it. the ac, dehum and veg lights. sorry was high and it just crossed my mind. plenty of options dude you just gotta look at options and do your homework before deciding to go ahead with this project becuz its gonna cost a pretty penny and no one likes wasting such beautiful pennies. lol


20amp 120v = 2400w *.8 = 1920 watts, with 20% allowance so the metal used isn't stressed to the point of failure or fire..


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## Figong (Feb 10, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> if you r running two separate 30 amps 220-240 volt breakers its a total of 6 screws for 2 separate controllers. its super easy to wire it up once you have it sitting in front of you. its 3 wires total for each. the 2 hots and the common. remember. 2 Hots and 1 common. so dont mistake that shit for a ground. lol. it doesnt matter which hot goes to which hot spot becuz each is 110-120 volts. so 120+120=240. to be honest as long as the common is in the right place you are ok. its as simple as choosing a few colors for the hots and screwing a few Phillips screws down. make sure you dont confuse the hots with the common. bad juju. lol. any questions let me know.


I don't know where to start with this.. so I will say, as nicely as I can - use the above advice at your own risk, but I would highly recommend against it unless you want a potentially massive fire.. especially when you 'choose a few colors'. Color selection is specific to what you are doing with it.. namely red.. being hot, a possible switch leg, or second hot in a 220. Blue and yellow are also hots, usually used in 3 and 4 way switches.. lso used as legs to things like permanent mounted fans and lights. Green and bare copper are used only for ground... -*NO EXCEPTIONS*-. White is always neutral.. -unless- it's marked with red or black tape. If it is marked as such.. it's part of a 2-conductor cable and is being used as the 2nd hot in a 240 outlet or appliance setup.


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## silverhazefiend (Feb 10, 2013)

Thank you !! So much 

The transformer is $125rated at 3000 watts ..the lighting controller is are about 200-400$ plus having it wired so id rather use the transformer ..what do I do about a timer tho ? Can u just use a heavy duty timer


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## wheels619 (Feb 10, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> lol... yeah, I figured I got lucky and wouldn't be so lucky at this next place, so I came here so I'd know what to do when things didn't go so smoothly... And you're helping me out plenty. But I gotta admit, I'm confused about how I'd be able to use breakers that are dedicated to a light controller... I thought that as soon as I hook up the 6 gauge cable to the controller it would mean that all I could use the breaker for, is the controller itself, and whatever I plug into it... I'm sure I'm off base, but I don't understand where I'd be able to plug in any other appliances, as far as the breaker is concerned... but thanks all the same man, I'm pretty sure I'm about a post away from annoying you with what are probably obvious questions, so I'll bow out after you respond... thanks


you can have the controller plugged in 24/7 instead of hooked up to a timer you can have constant 240 at 30 amps without it powering down. instead of being set to power on 12 hours a day you can plug it straight into the wall to run the heavy stuff like ac/ dehum/ fans blah blah blah if it was 240 and not 120.

as for dedicated lines. its not theoretically dedicated becuz all you technically have to do is unscrew and unhook the controller and you can use the wiring for other things that run on 240 like a dryer for instance. all you can use the 30 amp breaker for once hooked up to the controller is the controller becuz its rated for 30 amps. anything over would pop the breaker. 4 1000s and the inline fans is pusing the safety threshold. if you get a step down version like i have. it allows one 2 amp 120 outlet on the face of it for the inline fans needed. but like i said many options are out there.


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## wheels619 (Feb 10, 2013)

Figong said:


> 20amp 120v = 2400w *.8 = 1920 watts, with 20% allowance so the metal used isn't stressed to the point of failure or fire..


thats exactly what i said. he can run the three 500 watt or so items on the 20 amp 120 safely without starting a fire.


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## wheels619 (Feb 10, 2013)

silverhazefiend said:


> Thank you !! So much
> 
> The transformer is $125rated at 3000 watts ..the lighting controller is are about 200-400$ plus having it wired so id rather use the transformer ..what do I do about a timer tho ? Can u just use a heavy duty timer


it depends on how you have the controller setup to be honest. the trigger cord for the timer is 120 volt.

wait i misread this. it depends on the transformer and what capabilities it has. do you have a link to the one you have chosen?


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## wheels619 (Feb 10, 2013)

Figong said:


> I don't know where to start with this.. so I will say, as nicely as I can - use the above advice at your own risk, but I would highly recommend against it unless you want a potentially massive fire.. especially when you 'choose a few colors'. Color selection is specific to what you are doing with it.. namely red.. being hot, a possible switch leg, or second hot in a 220. Blue and yellow are also hots, usually used in 3 and 4 way switches.. lso used as legs to things like permanent mounted fans and lights. Green and bare copper are used only for ground... -*NO EXCEPTIONS*-. White is always neutral.. -unless- it's marked with red or black tape. If it is marked as such.. it's part of a 2-conductor cable and is being used as the 2nd hot in a 240 outlet or appliance setup.


so your saying if a guy has 10/2 romex and those colors you listed arent in the cable he shouldnt wire it up becuz it only gives you a black a white and a bare? or should he label the 2 insulated cables hots and use the bare as the common like any electrician i know would do? becuz as long as you have the right gauge wiring it doesnt matter what the colors are as long as you label them and have them in place properly. i.e. hots to hots and the commons to commons. or black to black, white to white bare to bare. blah blah blah. granted its not the cleanest thing that way. but your speaking of building and electrical code that isnt exactly usable in all situations. or will hooking up a black wire as a hot instead of a blue one as hot burn my house down even if its the proper gauge and thickness? again its dependent on wiring he buys becuz not all 6 gauge cable is color coded like you say. and yes i will give you the 3-4 phase becuz that is one thing i did forgot about. becuz it does actually make a difference.


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## wheels619 (Feb 10, 2013)

also i wouldnt be giving him advice without him actually having an electrician around to help like he said he had to help him. once everything is pulled into the room and connected to the breaker hooking up the controller and shit is the easy part. its wiring the breaker and pulling the wiring i would prefer he not do himself. in all honest if you are not sure about something then dont proceed. ask for professional help and dont electrocute yourself for gods sake. lol. but its simple once actually in the room to wire up. you can find wiring diagrams on google pics on how to wire just about everything up correctly. plus when you open the controller panel up and see three screws one labeled hot one labeled common and the other labeled hot its kinda hard to fuck up wiring it up correctly.


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## wheels619 (Feb 10, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> lol... yeah, I figured I got lucky and wouldn't be so lucky at this next place, so I came here so I'd know what to do when things didn't go so smoothly... And you're helping me out plenty. But I gotta admit, I'm confused about how I'd be able to use breakers that are dedicated to a light controller... I thought that as soon as I hook up the 6 gauge cable to the controller it would mean that all I could use the breaker for, is the controller itself, and whatever I plug into it... I'm sure I'm off base, but I don't understand where I'd be able to plug in any other appliances, as far as the breaker is concerned... but thanks all the same man, I'm pretty sure I'm about a post away from annoying you with what are probably obvious questions, so I'll bow out after you respond... thanks


also i think u r confusing the breaker with the breaker panel. the panel houses the actual breakers it can have multiple breakers inside of one panel. depending on how big the pannel if you can wire in 20000 watts into a breaker panel if you had the time money equipment and a big enough panel.


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## scuba.420 (Feb 10, 2013)

So basically if I wonna run 4 1000 watt lights in a room I should change breaker to 30a or 45a ?


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## rarebreed619 (Feb 10, 2013)

Hello brick was reading through the many pages on the thread about electricity help. I have a house with a 100 amp panel in it and i believe its maxed out.... is there anyway to run off the panel to a subpanel. and what would i need to run off the main. already have the sub panel. i can send u pics of the main panel on the house and the sub panel. Any help would be greatly appriciated. Im running 2 1k digis and a titan flo n gro. also a 1/4th hp water chiller and some inline fans and heater. im getting by running them off extention cords but have blown a fuse in the living room that i have the heater plugged into. 

please get back to me peace


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## wheels619 (Feb 10, 2013)

scuba.420 said:


> So basically if I wonna run 4 1000 watt lights in a room I should change breaker to 30a or 45a ?


depends on if its 120 or 240 your trying for but im guessing 240. a 30 amp is fine. 4000 watts at 240 is under 17 amps. well under the limit.


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## wheels619 (Feb 10, 2013)

rarebreed619 said:


> Hello brick was reading through the many pages on the thread about electricity help. I have a house with a 100 amp panel in it and i believe its maxed out.... is there anyway to run off the panel to a subpanel. and what would i need to run off the main. already have the sub panel. i can send u pics of the main panel on the house and the sub panel. Any help would be greatly appriciated. Im running 2 1k digis and a titan flo n gro. also a 1/4th hp water chiller and some inline fans and heater. im getting by running them off extention cords but have blown a fuse in the living room that i have the heater plugged into.
> 
> please get back to me peace


if its maxed out your gonna have to get an electrician and your power company involved to get a nice boost of juice. is the 100 amp breaker really maxed out or is it just blowing the breaker for that room?


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## Figong (Feb 10, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> so your saying if a guy has 10/2 romex and those colors you listed arent in the cable he shouldnt wire it up becuz it only gives you a black a white and a bare? or should he label the 2 insulated cables hots and use the bare as the common like any electrician i know would do? -snip-


And this here is why I'm pretty certain you're not safe to give advice.. you didn't read a word of what I said, let me re-post it for you.



Figong said:


> -snip-* White is always neutral.. -unless- it's marked with red or black tape. If it is marked as such..* *it's part of a 2-conductor cable* and is being used as the 2nd hot in a 240 outlet or appliance setup.


I'd recommend he wire to NEC code, and not take electrical advice from the forums - if you want my honest answer. My posts were merely to stop a fire. All I have to say on that. Wire it up how you want, just don't bitch or scream when there's a house fire - I'm going on record that violating code is not only reckless, but also one of the more retarded recommendations I've seen in the forums to this point.


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## Thatdjguy777 (Feb 11, 2013)

Hey guys, great thread! I read as much as I could in the last 4 hours or so. I want to run a sub panel for my grow. Is it safe to run the sub panel off a 30amp dryer outlet or should I run it off a breaker in the main panel? I was thinking of running a 25ft dryer cord which is a 3 prong style(30 amp) but read that sub panels should run on 4 wire. How would I wire the 3 cable to the sub panel if it's possible? Thanks for the help!


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## wheels619 (Feb 11, 2013)

Figong said:


> And this here is why I'm pretty certain you're not safe to give advice.. you didn't read a word of what I said, let me re-post it for you.
> 
> sorry for assuming the guy was smart enough to label the cables. once labeled why does it matter what colors they are if he is renting and will probably have to pull the wiring anyways when he moves. what if you dont have the colors needed like you say and you safely label the cables and hook them up properly even with the wrong colors it will still run as long as you havent mixed up the hots commons and shit like that. not everything is built to electrical code in case you havent notice. gauge and ratings yes. colors not always. many a house ive lived in werent up to electrical code with the wiring colors but the gauges and voltage, insulation and weather ratings were correct for the year the house was constructed and this is included in houses less than 5 years of age. and sorry i was high i didnt see the tape marking part.
> 
> ...


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## wheels619 (Feb 11, 2013)

Thatdjguy777 said:


> Hey guys, great thread! I read as much as I could in the last 4 hours or so. I want to run a sub panel for my grow. Is it safe to run the sub panel off a 30amp dryer outlet or should I run it off a breaker in the main panel? I was thinking of running a 25ft dryer cord which is a 3 prong style(30 amp) but read that sub panels should run on 4 wire. How would I wire the 3 cable to the sub panel if it's possible? Thanks for the help!


buy a 30 amp dryer male plug end. looks like this. ten bucks at home depot. can very by outlet. 

buy 50 ft of 10/3 romex or something similar 10/2 will work if its indoors and your on a budget.

buy lighting controller. looks like this. run you anywhere from 100-200 bucks on ebay depending on what brand and model you want.

wire everything up. should look like this. the left being hot. the middle being common. the right also being hot. 

then wire the plug.

plug the ballasts into the controller.

plug the timer into the wall and the lighting controller. set it.

plug the 30 amp into the wall. flip the switch and watch your lights turn on in excitement. if everything worked out it should pop to life instantly. also make sure your timer is on. nothing like expecting success and then have to figure out why shit aint right. lmao. 

its enough to power 4 1000 watt lights on 240 volts of juice safely.


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## Figong (Feb 11, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> -snip-
> also i get that you have a lot more electrical experience than i do but you arent in here helping dude out. your just tossing shit out there to shoot down what i say instead of actually giving decent advice. would you rather it be me who has at least some electrical knowledge or some guy that has absolutely none telling him to cut the ends off of an extension cord and just wire it up? which ive also seen in one of these forums.
> 
> may i ask your age? im not trying to be a dick im just curious.


Would definitely rather it be you than some guy saying to modify extension cords, that's most certain - I'm in my 30s, and would like to formally apologize for my word choices. I do see that in more than a few ways it appeared I was trying to be inflammatory - wasn't the case, was just trying to keep sane after seeing the 'pick a few colors'.. which for some who read this who may not understand, may actually just pick a few.. and we know what would happen then... potential disaster.


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## rarebreed619 (Feb 11, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> if its maxed out your gonna have to get an electrician and your power company involved to get a nice boost of juice. is the 100 amp breaker really maxed out or is it just blowing the breaker for that room?


i believe its maxed out cause there are no more spaces to put any breakers. Yeah i was thinking i would have to upgrade to a 200 amp service but its expensive i have a 30 amp 240v circuit hooked up to an electric dryer, im thinking i could just get a gas one and run the wire off the 30 amp back into my room. what cable would i need to run off the 30 amp? do i run it from the main panel? And all my out lets are the standard plug not 240, how would i run the 30 amp back there and hook everything up to it. or just replace the breaker to 2 20 amps and run that back there. I can post pics if you would like......


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## wheels619 (Feb 11, 2013)

Figong said:


> Would definitely rather it be you than some guy saying to modify extension cords, that's most certain - I'm in my 30s, and would like to formally apologize for my word choices. I do see that in more than a few ways it appeared I was trying to be inflammatory - wasn't the case, was just trying to keep sane after seeing the 'pick a few colors'.. which for some who read this who may not understand, may actually just pick a few.. and we know what would happen then... potential disaster.


this i agree. no worries at all. yeah i should have been a little more concerned in all honesty it is in fact electricity. i never considered some random bloke reading thru and actually picking random wires like an idiot and not reading thru the rest of the thread. "tonight at ten. man burns down whole neighborhood attempting to connect marijuana grow lights. stay tuned" lmao. but i do understand where your coming from and i appologize for any rashness from my end.


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## wheels619 (Feb 11, 2013)

rarebreed619 said:


> i believe its maxed out cause there are no more spaces to put any breakers. Yeah i was thinking i would have to upgrade to a 200 amp service but its expensive i have a 30 amp 240v circuit hooked up to an electric dryer, im thinking i could just get a gas one and run the wire off the 30 amp back into my room. what cable would i need to run off the 30 amp? do i run it from the main panel? And all my out lets are the standard plug not 240, how would i run the 30 amp back there and hook everything up to it. or just replace the breaker to 2 20 amps and run that back there. I can post pics if you would like......


actually thats what i did to save myself a whole lot of hassle. i got a gas dryer becuz my old elec one died. then i had a free 30 amp 240 outlet. lol. needless to say i have a shit ton more lights now gonna up it to about 6000 watts. but im gonna run another 30 amp in for that so i can control my veg and flower separately with other controllers.

also it costs a lot less to use the existing outlet if you can. plus gas is more efficient and cheaper to use. i explained the steps a few posts back with pics. its hard to miss. total cost is about 250 bucks and most of the cost was wiring and the controller. controller is about 100-200 on ebay and about another 50-100 on wiring. cost depends on quality and type.

10 gauge minimum wiring like a 10/2 or 10/3 romex and a 10 dollar dryer cable attachment. the more money you spend on cable the more pliable it will be. romex is kinda cheap and not really movable friendly compaired to others. but it saves you about 50 bucks cash.


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## rarebreed619 (Feb 11, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> actually thats what i did to save myself a whole lot of hassle. i got a gas dryer becuz my old elec one died. then i had a free 30 amp 240 outlet. lol. needless to say i have a shit ton more lights now gonna up it to about 6000 watts. but im gonna run another 30 amp in for that so i can control my veg and flower separately with other controllers.
> 
> also it costs a lot less to use the existing outlet if you can. plus gas is more efficient and cheaper to use. i explained the steps a few posts back with pics. its hard to miss. total cost is about 250 bucks and most of the cost was wiring and the controller. controller is about 100-200 on ebay and about another 50-100 on wiring. cost depends on quality and type.
> 
> 10 gauge minimum wiring like a 10/2 or 10/3 romex and a 10 dollar dryer cable attachment. the more money you spend on cable the more pliable it will be. romex is kinda cheap and not really movable friendly compaired to others. but it saves you about 50 bucks cash.


Well i dont have any 240 plugs for the ballasts couldn't i split it 2 -15 amp circuits? and run the 2 digis on the 15 amp and the other stuff on the other 15amp? trying to eliminate all use of extension cords and the 30 amp is my last shot.


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## wheels619 (Feb 11, 2013)

rarebreed619 said:


> Well i dont have any 240 plugs for the ballasts couldn't i split it 2 -15 amp circuits? and run the 2 digis on the 15 amp and the other stuff on the other 15amp? trying to eliminate all use of extension cords and the 30 amp is my last shot.


depends on the wattage of the ballasts. and if you have a dryer outlet its already pushing 30 amps at 240. i highly doubt you would have like a 60 amp 120 dryer outlet. but dryer outlets aside. 



120v 240v
1000 watt ballast 9amps 4.5amps
600 watt ballast 5amps 2.5amps
400 watt ballast 3.5amps 1.75amps

look at the chart make sure ur not over your amperage load. remember safe load is only 80% of the breaker capacity. so a 15 amp breaker is only safe running 12 amps also a thing to remember is you may actually have 4 outlets on one breaker depending on how old your house is and you may not be able to support the lights on the wall outlets and you will have extension cords ran everywhere. unless ur pulling fresh cable for the runs. in that case you should just research lighting controllers and bring 240 into the room instead of 120. check the specs like i did. i looked and compaired 13 dif lighting controllers before even deciding where to go and even considered making my own...

oh also the 240 ballast cords are about 10 bucks each online and in all honesty the 120 volt cords are rated to handle the amps and voltage of 240. you just need a lighting controller with universal plugs. the titan helios 4-4 is a 30 amp 240 lighting controller that has a universal plug for plugging in reg cords that should handle the small 6 foot power run of 240 at 4.5 amps max with a 1000. the only thing really different is the plug design on the other end that plugs into most lighting controllers. the thicker cables are normally used for people that put the ballasts farther away from everything due to heat and power loss thru the long runs. got a budy running ballasts from about 40 ft away. but if you have digital ballasts you shouldnt have to worry with a 6 ft run about much heat. just look at the power cables stamping. it has gauge and voltage ratings on them already. just look closely. type it into google and it should give a rating for everything and explain shit. i chose this specific lighting controller for the outlets being universal. so i wouldnt have to buy another 40+ bucks on cables.

in all honesty 1000+ options exist once you start opening this door. the only problem is you wont know which to choose until you read and do homework yourself to understand how the setup actually works and hooks up and whats needed. google a 30 amp 240 lighting controller diagram and see what pops up.


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## wheels619 (Feb 11, 2013)

in all honesty if your in san diego lets get together at a park or somewhere public and smoke a doobie and eat lunch and chat. its always nice to get high and talk shop. lmao. j/k. a lot of creepers out there. id end up raped by a black midget in a fairy outfit in a dumpster or something. lol. us crippled guys cant get away very easily. haha


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## Malevolence (Feb 11, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> again ridiculousness. lol. my older power supply was actually pulling 400 watts. lmao. i only know this becuz of the load the breaker had tripped at. point being a desktop computer is capable of pulling a a lot more wattage than you think.


Facts are ridiculousness? Google 80 Plus.

Your PSU draws way less electricity than HID lighting unless your cpu/gpu are pegged rendering Avatar for 3 months or some shit.


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## wheels619 (Feb 11, 2013)

Malevolence said:


> Facts are ridiculousness? Google 80 Plus.
> 
> Your PSU draws way less electricity than HID lighting unless your cpu/gpu are pegged rendering Avatar for 3 months or some shit.


mmm. my comp pegs out downloading and running music and graphic rendering software. oh also my autocad takes a toll on everything. points being if he has a 1000 watt and a few box fans and an inline fan and a tv from the other room going on one 15 amp 120v circuit its not going to support his computer also. once he does anything interesting on it its gonna kill the breaker. jesus take shit literally much? and no the power they are capable of drawing when pushed is ridiculousness. facts are not. i believe if you can prove something you rule the argument. im also too high and tired to read the 80 plus thing all the way but wiki gave me the just i believe.


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## Thatdjguy777 (Feb 12, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> buy a 30 amp dryer male plug end. looks like this. ten bucks at home depot. can very by outlet.
> View attachment 2520495
> buy 50 ft of 10/3 romex or something similar 10/2 will work if its indoors and your on a budget.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply wheels619, but I need to run a sub panel off my empty dryer plug because if I use the wall outlets for all my other accessories the breakers flip when my girl uses her hair dryer. I guess all the bedrooms run on the same circuit. So I figured running a sub panel off that empty breaker will do the trick and fix that problem since nothing is running on that dryer breaker. Also another question. I've seen many threads on DIY ballast flip flops, I wanna build a 2-4 flip. From what I understand the safe way is running 1 relay per ballast. What I don't understand is why people connect the out from the relays to the lights to an outlet then you have to figure out a way to plug in your hood cable to that outlet? Is there something unsafe about hard wiring each hood cable to the relay outs(after the relay contacts) or is it just about making it easier to unplug if you have to? Thanks again for your time and help!

BTW...I'm running 2 600w @ 110 + plus pumps, fans yadda yadda yadda


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## wheels619 (Feb 12, 2013)

Thatdjguy777 said:


> Thanks for the reply wheels619, but I need to run a sub panel off my empty dryer plug because if I use the wall outlets for all my other accessories the breakers flip when my girl uses her hair dryer. I guess all the bedrooms run on the same circuit. So I figured running a sub panel off that empty breaker will do the trick and fix that problem since nothing is running on that dryer breaker. Also another question. I've seen many threads on DIY ballast flip flops, I wanna build a 2-4 flip. From what I understand the safe way is running 1 relay per ballast. What I don't understand is why people connect the out from the relays to the lights to an outlet then you have to figure out a way to plug in your hood cable to that outlet? Is there something unsafe about hard wiring each hood cable to the relay outs(after the relay contacts) or is it just about making it easier to unplug if you have to? Thanks again for your time and help!
> 
> BTW...I'm running 2 600w @ 110 + plus pumps, fans yadda yadda yadda


hmm. maybe you should tell her to get out of the bathroom. lol. j/k um well if you buy a nice enough lighting controller it will have a 120 outlet attached thats capable of 5 actual amps of 120 or so. some give you a 2 amp but the nicer ones give more. so you still have the lighting controller but you can run the fans off of it. the ballasts on 120 are the reasons you are tripping the breaker.they pull about 10 amps off of its 15 amp breaker. when its lights out tonight unplug the ballasts and plug the hair dryer in it shouldnt blow anything even with the other stuff still plugged in. run just the ballasts and inline fans off of it. the one i listed previously is powering my 4 1000 ballasts on 240 and running my 2 6 inch inlines on 120. also flip boxes are nice but you still have to have separate flower areas for this. and in that case you can get a 2-4 flip box but you are still gonna need at least a small 2 light controller to bring in the power for the lights otherwise the chingus is still gonna pop. chingus being breaker. a flip box is gonna cost an extra couple hundies on top of the controller your still gonna need to manage the incoming power. unless you build your own but i wouldnt recommend it without an electrician handy.

http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/grow-light-controller.asp


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## Thatdjguy777 (Feb 12, 2013)

Ok, that flip is one of the many I have seen. But like I asked originally, is there a reason hoods are not hard wired to the outs from the relay or is it just because it's easier to disconnect plugs? Thanks again.


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## wheels619 (Feb 12, 2013)

Thatdjguy777 said:


> Ok, that flip is one of the many I have seen. But like I asked originally, is there a reason hoods are not hard wired to the outs from the relay or is it just because it's easier to disconnect plugs? Thanks again.


huh? got me dude im not sure what it is your asking. lol. try again and i might get an idea.


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## Thatdjguy777 (Feb 13, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> huh? got me dude im not sure what it is your asking. lol. try again and i might get an idea.


I was talking about DIY ballast flip flop boxes. I have seen where they use a relay like the ones in the link you posted. The power from the ballast to the lights goes to the relay then splits off into two different lights(hoods), when the coil engages/disengages the relay sends the power to the other set of lights. They usually set up an outlet/receptacle after the relays where they plug in the hoods. I was asking why the hoods aren't hardwired straight to the relays(poles) instead of the outlets? Is this just out of ease to unplug the hoods when you need to or is there something dangerous about hardwiring the hoods straight to the relays?


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## redlube (Feb 13, 2013)

O.k. so i read a few pages back, and I am wanting to do similar. I am looking to have my certified electrician friend build me a flip box. What type of relays/contactors are required? Also can you tell me how much voltage is running on the output of a 600watt digital ballast?


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## wheels619 (Feb 13, 2013)

Thatdjguy777 said:


> I was talking about DIY ballast flip flop boxes. I have seen where they use a relay like the ones in the link you posted. The power from the ballast to the lights goes to the relay then splits off into two different lights(hoods), when the coil engages/disengages the relay sends the power to the other set of lights. They usually set up an outlet/receptacle after the relays where they plug in the hoods. I was asking why the hoods aren't hardwired straight to the relays(poles) instead of the outlets? Is this just out of ease to unplug the hoods when you need to or is there something dangerous about hardwiring the hoods straight to the relays?





redlube said:


> O.k. so i read a few pages back, and I am wanting to do similar. I am looking to have my certified electrician friend build me a flip box. What type of relays/contactors are required? Also can you tell me how much voltage is running on the output of a 600watt digital ballast?


ok guys so flip boxes are a little out of my league. im in no way able to take the time to research them at the moment since im harvesting right about now and still tossing together a 6 light setup. but i can recommend actually buying one premade. they are well constructed and in all honesty really affordable now for the smaller 1-2, 2-4 and even 4-8 units. thats ballast-hood ratio. a decent 2-4 flip box is about 270 bucks on ebay. local hydro shop should mark it up to about 400+ easily. as far as building them is concerned i havent a clue where to start. i havent researched them due to the fact that they are so cheap compared to when they first came out. also i dig the warranties and the not having to figure out how to stuff. lol. sorry guys.


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## legaleyes13 (Feb 13, 2013)

wheels. I'll I really need clarification on is this... If I get that 30amp 240v breaker installed, then wire it to a light controller, I'll only be using 18amps of power... so does that mean that the other 12amps (6 considering the 20% safety range) will go to waste because the the breaker is wired to the light controller?


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## wheels619 (Feb 13, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> wheels. I'll I really need clarification on is this... If I get that 30amp 240v breaker installed, then wire it to a light controller, I'll only be using 18amps of power... so does that mean that the other 12amps (6 considering the 20% safety range) will go to waste because the the breaker is wired to the light controller?


yes pretty much. the lighting controller was designed to run 4 1000 watt lights. it doesnt really care if you use less. its also not wasted power its just not used. also different ballasts mean different amperage ratings but not by much. give or take 5%. they sell lighting controllers with stepdowns for 120v that actually use some of the slack thats left but thats when you get into the bigger bucks. mine was about 175 but it gives me a 120v plug to run my inline fans but not much else. the more you spend the more options you have open to you as far using as much available power as you can.


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## Figong (Feb 13, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> yes pretty much. the lighting controller was designed to hold up to 4 1000 watt lights. it doesnt really care if you use less. its also not wasted power its just not used. also different ballasts mean different amperage ratings but not by much. give or take 5%. they sell lighting controllers with stepdowns for 120v that actually use some of the slack thats left but thats when you get into the big bucks. mine was about 175 but it gives me a 120v 2 amp plug to run my inline fans. the more you spend the more options you have open to you as far as technology and plugs.


Agreed, the amperage left over can go into new smaller expansions without more wiring having to be run - I agree with the above, without question. $ is where extra features (and potential sanity) come into play.


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## wheels619 (Feb 13, 2013)

also what i posted earlier wasnt a flip box. it was an actual lighting controller someone had built. i just went thru the wire gauges and shit to make sure it wouldnt burn shit down. flip boxes work differently. the stuff i posted earlier has nothing to do with flip boxes. its about maximizing your power to the amount of ballasts you have. flip boxes are designed to run 2 bulbs off of one ballast at separate times without having the startup and warmup period that takes so much life from your ballasts and to save on total overall equipment costs. even tho what most people dont realize is that if you are running 2 or more 1000 watt ballasts you will need more power ran to the room and a lighting controller of some sort to manage it all. also unless you have a 4-8 or bigger flip box the cost savings arent really that great due to the cost of the box and the recent costs of actual ballasts.


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## wheels619 (Feb 13, 2013)

Figong said:


> Agreed, the amperage left over can go into new smaller expansions without more wiring having to be run - I agree with the above, without question. $ is where extra features (and potential sanity) come into play.


exactly. what that guy said. lol.


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## adz0007 (Feb 19, 2013)

Hi I'm building a room with 4 x 600w and a 400w (grow) also pumps fans and a 3.9kW air con. 


I only have 2 power points to run all this off so just wondering if I would need to do some wiring to run all this safely? If so what needs to be done? I have a mate who is an apprentice electrician so he may be able to help with the wiring?


Thanks


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## TooRare2Die (Feb 19, 2013)

Hello Bricktown im glad weve got an electrical guy here.. what im going to be running is 3 1000watt ballasts 2 hps ballasts and 1 mh ballast. 435 cfm fan couple of in room fans and one small can fan.. along with a few timers.. i was told i need to upgrade my box from a friend but i figured id ask you.. here are two pictures of my panel..
.. my brother in law is an electrician but hes an asshole so im not even going to attempt to ask him.. if you look closely the orange cord near the bottom right is an open 220v but i dunno how id convert it so i was going to just stick with 110.. picture was taken sideways. oops!! was hoping you could tell me how many amps this box can hold and if im going to need to upgrade or can i just run a sub off of it? thanks for your time.


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## supchaka (Feb 20, 2013)

I dont know if the original poster comes in here much anymore. Im not an electrician, but that box already looks like a sub panel. And some of that wiring looks older than me, and Im 40! Have you followed the 2 wires feeding it to see if they go to another panel? By looking at it, obviously its over the 100 amp rating of the main breaker already, but boils down to whats getting run and when etc? For your safety Id get an electrician to check out that shit. Whether its a rental or you own, I wouldnt want to take a chance.


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## supchaka (Feb 20, 2013)

To elaborate a little more. You can see someone spliced right off the incoming line, that's a no no. You can also see on a couple breakers where there's more than one feed coming off it, another negative. On the bottom there's a neutral, or at least it's white jumped from one breaker into another. I don't even know why all those neutrals are even going into the breakers. The breakers themselves look old enough to replace as it is. I'd honestly get that whole panel redone even if I wasn't planning to grow off it!be safe mang!


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## Shawns (Feb 20, 2013)

I was going to say the same thing, that panel looks overloaded already, someones already put in space saver breakers witch allows you to put in double the amount the panel would normally allow also almost all the breakers have 2 wires in them maybe even 3 on some witch I'm pretty sure they should only have 1. Like supchaka said I would have a electrician look at that before adding anything more to it


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## Rusty Shakelford (Feb 20, 2013)

Hi ALL!! I have a 50A 250V 6-50R Straight Blade outlet in my grow area that I would like to utilize. Does anyone know of an Adapter that I can use for normal electronics such as Fans and Lights?


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## wheels619 (Feb 20, 2013)

Rusty Shakelford said:


> Hi ALL!! I have a 50A 250V 6-50R Straight Blade outlet in my grow area that I would like to utilize. Does anyone know of an Adapter that I can use for normal electronics such as Fans and Lights?


yeah a lighting controller and a home depot plug with 6 gauge minimum wiring. it will let you run everything off of it.

this will work.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-Amp-Light-Controller-120-240v-24-hrs-Timer-Box-Bulb-/290532368204?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a5141f4c

this will work better.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Light-Powerbox-DPC-15000-240V-Controller-50-Amp-Hardwire-Ammeter-Light-HID-/190646513136?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c636aedf0

the second is more expensive but gives you more options on running 120 shit off of it. fans and stuff like that. no ac and shit with higher amps of power.


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## Rusty Shakelford (Feb 20, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> yeah a lighting controller and a home depot plug with 6 gauge minimum wiring. it will let you run everything off of it.
> 
> this will work.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-Amp-Light-Controller-120-240v-24-hrs-Timer-Box-Bulb-/290532368204?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a5141f4c
> ...



Thank you for the Links, but WHOLY SMOKES!! Those are pricey.. Not sure I can go with those options..


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## wheels619 (Feb 20, 2013)

Rusty Shakelford said:


> Thank you for the Links, but WHOLY SMOKES!! Those are pricey.. Not sure I can go with those options..


in all honesty they are your best option. unless your handy enough to build your own lighting controller which i wouldnt recommend do to not wanting you to potentially burn your house down. another option is to pay an electrician to build you one in place but the cost of supplies and his hourly rate its going to probably cost about the same. either way up to you. also they sell other brands and model of controllers. some cheaper and some more expensive. but generally the expensive ones give you more options like you are asking for. unless you have a buddy who is an electrician this is the way to go properly . plus you shouldnt have to pay anyone to wire anything into place. the controllers are simple basic plug and play stuff so you dont have to fight with a thousand different timers. the more shit you invlove the more can go wrong. i suggest looking into the lighting controller option even if you dont really want to use one. just to keep your options open. also 240 volts at 50 amps isnt cheap to run properly. the $400 controller i posted a link for is as cheap as you will get unless you know an electrician.


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## Rusty Shakelford (Feb 20, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> in all honesty they are your best option. unless your handy enough to build your own lighting controller which i wouldnt recommend do to not wanting you to potentially burn your house down. another option is to pay an electrician to build you one in place but the cost of supplies and his hourly rate its going to probably cost about the same. either way up to you. also they sell other brands and model of controllers. some cheaper and some more expensive. but generally the expensive ones give you more options like you are asking for. unless you have a buddy who is an electrician this is the way to go properly . plus you shouldnt have to pay anyone to wire anything into place. the controllers are simple basic plug and play stuff so you dont have to fight with a thousand different timers. the more shit you invlove the more can go wrong. i suggest looking into the lighting controller option even if you dont really want to use one. just to keep your options open. also 240 volts at 50 amps isnt cheap to run properly. the $400 controller i posted a link for is as cheap as you will get unless you know an electrician.


Thanks again for the Info.. Is there a reason I need to have a Light Controller? I was basically just looking for some type of adapter that would turn this outlet into a regular outlet that I could plug an Oscillating Fan and Maybe a Space Heater into. Is there anything like that?


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## wheels619 (Feb 20, 2013)

Rusty Shakelford said:


> Thanks again for the Info.. Is there a reason I need to have a Light Controller? I was basically just looking for some type of adapter that would turn this outlet into a regular outlet that I could plug an Oscillating Fan and Maybe a Space Heater into. Is there anything like that?


mmm yeah. depending on how many watts your going to be running and how much you want to spend. again you should research on google about the stuff you actually need. not sure your taking all things into consideration when planning this. watts/amperage. 120 or 240. total number of watts running and the highest peak of power usage is coming from the room also not to mention the cost. if you were worries about a couple hundy for a lighting controller you might not want to consider using that outlet at all. its going to cost a pretty penny to run a 50 amp 240volt outlet properly and convert shit to 120. are you planning your lights on a 120 or 240 volts? also do not plug a 30 amp controller r anything smaller into a 50 amp outlet. bad juju. unless wired up to do so properly.


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## supchaka (Feb 20, 2013)

Rusty Shakelford said:


> Thanks again for the Info.. Is there a reason I need to have a Light Controller? I was basically just looking for some type of adapter that would turn this outlet into a regular outlet that I could plug an Oscillating Fan and Maybe a Space Heater into. Is there anything like that?


Pop the outlet and put a little sub panel there. You can do that fairly cheap.


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## wheels619 (Feb 20, 2013)

supchaka said:


> Pop the outlet and put a little sub panel there. You can do that fairly cheap.


ahh. that also. im high and its hard to remember all this stuff when im stressing. sorry also im high. lol.

@rusty remember dont wire it yourself please. unless you have a decent knowledge of electricity and how that shit works.


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## Rusty Shakelford (Feb 20, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> mmm yeah. depending on how many watts your going to be running and how much you want to spend. again you should research on google about the stuff you actually need. not sure your taking all things into consideration when planning this. watts/amperage. 120 or 240. total number of watts running and the highest peak of power usage is coming from the room also not to mention the cost. if you were worries about a couple hundy for a lighting controller you might not want to consider using that outlet at all. its going to cost a pretty penny to run a 50 amp 240volt outlet properly and convert shit to 120. are you planning your lights on a 120 or 240 volts? also do not plug a 30 amp controller r anything smaller into a 50 amp outlet. bad juju. unless wired up to do so properly.



My lights are already up and operational.. This is just a Power Box that the previous owners put in (I think they used it to power a Kiln), and it happens to be in my grow room. Since it has its own Breaker and everything, I wanted to see if there was a simple adapter that would step down the Power and allow me to plug in a Simply Room Fan and Maybe a small space heater. Anything to take some of the load off the other outlets..


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## Rusty Shakelford (Feb 20, 2013)

supchaka said:


> Pop the outlet and put a little sub panel there. You can do that fairly cheap.


Hey Chaka,, What type of Sub panel are you Referring to? 

I know better than to wire anything myself, especially considering the questions I am currently asking.. That and I like my house too much


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## supchaka (Feb 20, 2013)

They sell various sized panels at lowes, its just a small version of your main breaker box on the house. You can get that put in and run some 120 circuits off it.


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## Sand4x105 (Feb 20, 2013)

I got in on this late...
If it is a 40 or 50 amp breaker two pole 220vac in panel, change it to 20 amp two pole with two legs of 110 vac...
Then just buy a 4S box and mount it over the [kiln] existing outlet, mount a double duplex outlet cover, splice 12 awg into the large wires then hook to outlet, the whole thing, $25 total, and you'd have two dedicated 20 amp outlets...red white to one outlet, black white to other...
Get it ? if not pm me...


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## SexMachine (Feb 20, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> buy a 30 amp dryer male plug end. looks like this. ten bucks at home depot. can very by outlet.
> View attachment 2520495
> buy 50 ft of 10/3 romex or something similar 10/2 will work if its indoors and your on a budget.
> 
> ...



Thank you for taking the time to help others less enlightened in these matters I do have a question tho! I live in europe and we use different type of plug ends for the wall outlet i think. Do any of you know whether there are adapters i could use for any light controller i buy from abroad?


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## wheels619 (Feb 20, 2013)

SexMachine said:


> Thank you for taking the time to help others less enlightened in these matters I do have a question tho! I live in europe and we use different type of plug ends for the wall outlet i think. Do any of you know whether there are adapters i could use for any light controller i buy from abroad?


it depends what plug you are looking for to be honest. what it looks like and how much power ur truing to put thru it. but in all honesty if you draw out what the plug looks like and you go to a local hardware store they should be able to point you in the right direction. they make replacement plug ends for cable. just ask for a replacement end for whatever your plug looks like. shouldnt cost much. maybe 10-11 us or about 8 euro. but specify the amps and voltage needed for the plug and outlet. also dont mix and match amps on your controllers and outlets. dont put a 30 amp controller on a 50 amp outlet and vise versa.


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## Le Spliff Doctor (Feb 21, 2013)

this is a great idea for a thread. I may be a novice grower but I've been boat building for 6 years. I specialise in working on wooden boats and have also done quite a considerable amount of welding over the years.

Do you think it would be worth while starting a similar thread but concentrating on the carpentry side of things?


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## Figong (Feb 21, 2013)

Le Spliff Doctor said:


> this is a great idea for a thread. I may be a novice grower but I've been boat building for 6 years. I specialise in working on wooden boats and have also done quite a considerable amount of welding over the years.
> 
> Do you think it would be worth while starting a similar thread but concentrating on the carpentry side of things?


I say go for it if you're up to fielding massive amounts of posts and accepting constructive (see: helpful/insightful information, and civilized debates) from other members - would help our community as a whole and that's progress.  Now that we've established that, mind building me a 42ft yacht that can handle 300 plants, lights, etc? hahaha (just kidding, mostly)


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Feb 21, 2013)

I love my Cap MLC8X Controller. Wouldn't do anything other than run a controller. It's so convenient.


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## supchaka (Feb 21, 2013)

I dont think the idea is to quote yourself in your sig  Thats just weird man! And when did we start building boats up in here?!


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## herbbilly (Feb 23, 2013)

Sand4x105 said:


> I got in on this late...
> If it is a 40 or 50 amp breaker two pole 220vac in panel, change it to 20 amp two pole with two legs of 110 vac...
> Then just buy a 4S box and mount it over the [kiln] existing outlet, mount a double duplex outlet cover, splice 12 awg into the large wires then hook to outlet, the whole thing, $25 total, and you'd have two dedicated 20 amp outlets...red white to one outlet, black white to other...
> Get it ? if not pm me...


Doing this with old range circuit I'm tying into under home. Running one 10awg(?) four wire from existing 6awg at jbox to disconnect then seperating legs. Trying to keep cheap and easy have disc,recepts etc. I'd need only wire from downstairs kitchen to upstairs room,fuses and breaker.


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## herbbilly (Feb 23, 2013)

Hey Chaka with a sub how high can you go with 6 awg? If I tied at gaspack/ac max fuse 50 amp could I pull a 20 off that with sub? No crawling involved worth $.


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## legaleyes13 (Mar 12, 2013)

Hey fellas, I found one of these light controller http://www.greners.com/i/grow-lights/products/light-boxes-controllers/solatel-pwx-240-u-power-expander-240v-20a-4-2-outlets.html. Would it work on a 240 30 amp breaker? Or would I have to use more power to compensate for the additional 10amp power expander outlets? And it mentions something about 240 23A service that he's me a little bit lost. Thanks in advance fellas.


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## Figong (Mar 12, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> Hey fellas, I found one of these light controller http://www.greners.com/i/grow-lights/products/light-boxes-controllers/solatel-pwx-240-u-power-expander-240v-20a-4-2-outlets.html. Would it work on a 240 30 amp breaker? Or would I have to use more power to compensate for the additional 10amp power expander outlets? And it mentions something about 240 23A service that he's me a little bit lost. Thanks in advance fellas.


Yes, that'd work on a 240/30A per what they said, nothing else could go on the circuit though. 30* .8 = 24A.. and that leaves a 20% cushion Amp-wise for spikes, and to leave a bit of room so you're a ton less likely to see wiring heat up/fail/start a fire (this assumes the circuit is truly 240/30A and the wiring was done properly & verified)


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## legaleyes13 (Mar 12, 2013)

Oh yeah, one more thing fellas. If I plug this into my dryer hookup, will I be good to go, or do I have to do some sort of wiring with my breaker box?Here's what I'm talking about. It's a different controller than I had in my last post http://www.greners.com/i/grow-lights/products/light-boxes-controllers/powerbox-dpc-7500-combo.html


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## wheels619 (Mar 12, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> Oh yeah, one more thing fellas. If I plug this into my dryer hookup, will I be good to go, or do I have to do some sort of wiring with my breaker box?Here's what I'm talking about. It's a different controller than I had in my last post http://www.greners.com/i/grow-lights/products/light-boxes-controllers/powerbox-dpc-7500-combo.html


as long as its a 30 amp outlet and a 30 amp controller your fine. dont mix and match. also check the manufacturers website to make sure you dont have to rewire it to match the outlet.


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## NORML (Mar 12, 2013)

so I live in the USA in a duplex in the top unit, the house is pretty old and I have no idea how many amp my unit is able to work with, also I do not know which rooms are on the same circuit and how many amps each circuit (room) can hold. Is there any way I can figure this out? I am running about 1000W from what I believe is one circuit(room) and I have an extension cord coming from another separate room which has about 800W running through it. My sockets are all 120V. Also I had to wire two in-line booster fans myself. I used an old computer power cord and cut the end off and wired it, the only problem is that the wires from the in-line booster had aluminum (im assuming) wire but the power cords had copper. I know the wires were the same gauge. I went to my local hardware store and bought some of this anti-oxidizing cream and smeared it all over the wires while I connected and put a wire nut on them. Could this pose as any threat? Let me know via PM, it would be very helpful!


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## legaleyes13 (Mar 13, 2013)

@wheels - Thanks man... I have one last question, that if answered will have me sitting pretty. If I pick up a 240v 30A 6 light controller - the kind that has 2 outlets that can be flipped to run separately from the rest, continuous if I choose to. could I plug a non light into it? Like say this atmosphere controller? http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/sentinel-chhc4-cooling-heating-humidity-and-co2-controller-p-2778.html - But the thing about this atmosphere controller is that I'm almost sure that it's 110v or 120v... but lets say I plug it into a transformer then into one of the extra outlets on the lighting controller. Would everything work as long as I'm under the amperage limit?


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## wheels619 (Mar 13, 2013)

NORML said:


> so I live in the USA in a duplex in the top unit, the house is pretty old and I have no idea how many amp my unit is able to work with, also I do not know which rooms are on the same circuit and how many amps each circuit (room) can hold. Is there any way I can figure this out? I am running about 1000W from what I believe is one circuit(room) and I have an extension cord coming from another separate room which has about 800W running through it. My sockets are all 120V. Also I had to wire two in-line booster fans myself. I used an old computer power cord and cut the end off and wired it, the only problem is that the wires from the in-line booster had aluminum (im assuming) wire but the power cords had copper. I know the wires were the same gauge. I went to my local hardware store and bought some of this anti-oxidizing cream and smeared it all over the wires while I connected and put a wire nut on them. Could this pose as any threat? Let me know via PM, it would be very helpful!


ok this is gonna be a pain in the ass. lol. grab a lamp. turn off one rooms breakers and go thru the rooms and plug the lamp in. if it lights up the one outlet isnt on the same circuit. remember tho half a room may be on one and the other half of the room may be on the other. so check them all. also you have a breaker that should be labeled with the amperage rating. also most outlets even at the old places were at least rated for ten amps. some were rated at 15 amps per circuit tho. it all depends on the year the house was build and the manufacturers specs.


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## wheels619 (Mar 13, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> @wheels - Thanks man... I have one last question, that if answered will have me sitting pretty. If I pick up a 240v 30A 6 light controller - the kind that has 2 outlets that can be flipped to run separately from the rest, continuous if I choose to. could I plug a non light into it? Like say this atmosphere controller? http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/sentinel-chhc4-cooling-heating-humidity-and-co2-controller-p-2778.html - But the thing about this atmosphere controller is that I'm almost sure that it's 110v or 120v... but lets say I plug it into a transformer then into one of the extra outlets on the lighting controller. Would everything work as long as I'm under the amperage limit?


theoretically yes. but it would cost you more. you can just order a 30 amp 6 plug that has 4 240 volt plugs timed and 2 120 volt plugs continuous power. then you wouldnt need to convert anything. the brand controller you were looking at makes one. not sure if you will be able to run a light off of the 120 portion but you will be able to pull enough for fans and atmo controllers and shite no problem. just dont be running a/c and shit on it unless you can figure out what the 120 rating is for them. cuz you dont want to pull 1400 watts thru something meant for lets say 5 amps. cuz you would be way over by about my guess 7 amps and thats bad juju.


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## wheels619 (Mar 13, 2013)

@all

ive been kinda busy lately. so soryy if i havent gotten back to some of you. had to fire my help and this much stuff going at once for me = full time job.  but its well worth it. just short on time. so ask your questions away just please give me a day or two to reply. and please not a whole grow setups worth of questions at once. lol. space them apart please. a few here and there would be nice and not 40 at once.  ill get back to ya when ui can.

for those waiting on grow setup advice im working on it still just takes a bit of time to plan it out to do it right.


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## legaleyes13 (Mar 13, 2013)

@wheels - The thing about going with the 120 continuous outlets is that I would be running an a/c on it... a small one (5,000 BTU), along with a dehumidifier and CO2 generator, all plugged into that atmosphere controller that I linked in my last post. So I don't think that would fit on a 120v 10amp outlet... and it's not like I can use some power from both of the continuous outlets, because I need all of the appliances plugged into the one atmosphere controller... and you said "theoretically yes... but it's gonna cost you more." What do you mean by that?


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## wheels619 (Mar 13, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> @wheels - The thing about going with the 120 continuous outlets is that I would be running an a/c on it... a small one (5,000 BTU), along with a dehumidifier and CO2 generator, all plugged into that atmosphere controller that I linked in my last post. So I don't think that would fit on a 120v 10amp outlet... and it's not like I can use some power from both of the continuous outlets, because I need all of the appliances plugged into the one atmosphere controller... and you said "theoretically yes... but it's gonna cost you more." What do you mean by that?


give me 30 min to do some reasearch. how much are you looking to spend and how many watts total are you running? 240 and 120 separately so i can figure out amperage and voltage limits.


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## legaleyes13 (Mar 16, 2013)

@wheels - sorry for taking so long, I haven't been around my laptop for the last couple of days... but I'd be running 4600watts in lights, plus a 5,000 btu a/c, co2 generator, 530 watt dehumidifier, 500 watts in 1min on 5min off water pumps, and then about 3 or 4 inline fans... I don't need to run all of this on the light controller of course... and to be honest, I think I have things figured out, but your expertise is definitely definitely welcome... Thanks in advance...


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## supchaka (Mar 16, 2013)

I just wanna say that 4600 watts of light and a 5k btu AC unit don't sound like a winning combo. I'm running a 10k btu with a 600 watt light which is overkill but I couldn't imagine trying to do your scenario


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## legaleyes13 (Mar 16, 2013)

I hear ya, supchucka, but I'm doing it anyway... I feel like I have to for power reasons... I'm sure I'm just being paranoid, but I can't shake the feeling that I'm pushing the limit... For the record, it's gonna be 4,000 watts in the flower room and 600watts for veg/clone... and I've used 5,000 BTUs for a 3600 watt grow before and it worked fine, but 1200 of those watts were LED, so who knows...? I appreciate the concern though...


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## Figong (Mar 16, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> I hear ya, supchucka, but I'm doing it anyway... I feel like I have to for power reasons... I'm sure I'm just being paranoid, but I can't shake the feeling that I'm pushing the limit... For the record, it's gonna be 4,000 watts in the flower room and 600watts for veg/clone... and I've used 5,000 BTUs for a 3600 watt grow before and it worked fine, but 1200 of those watts were LED, so who knows...? I appreciate the concern though...


Yup, temps will definitely be up.. hope you plan to run the lights at night and have another form of cooling in mind depending on your location on this earth.


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## jman1062000 (Mar 18, 2013)

hey bricktown, or anyone that can help me out  i have been trying to find a thread and all over google if i can use a normal thermostat or a program one to control my inline fan, i have a elicent in case it matters. All i want is to control my 2nd fan to only turn on when its hot and turn off when it is normal temp! thanks in advance! 420 KID


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## herbbilly (Mar 18, 2013)

Jman you can get a cheap temp. controlled on off switch. They are used for attic exhaust fans not very accurate but dial in with thermometer and your good. I use em in reverse with cold intake a/c in the winter.


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## buddingcarl (Mar 18, 2013)

Guys, I need some help wiring my Philips 600W ballast (to be used with a 600W Philips SON-T Pia GreenPower). It came with absolutely no instructions so I wanted to ask before I do anything stupid.
The way I understand the diagram, stamped on the top of the ballast, is that live and neutral wires from the power line should go into the two plugs to the left (bottom of the photo) and the live/neutral wires should go from the plugs to the right (upper part of the photo) to the lamp. Am I correct?

 

EDIT: Found a diagram on Philips' website and now I think my idea must be wrong. If the lamp and the ballast are connected in parallel like in the diagram, then both live should wires should go in the two left plugs while the two neutral wires go together in the two plugs to the right. What do you guys think?


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## herbbilly (Mar 18, 2013)

http://m.alibaba.com/products/e40_socket.html Here's a link is this what you needed bc?


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## buddingcarl (Mar 19, 2013)

herbbilly said:


> http://m.alibaba.com/products/e40_socket.html Here's a link is this what you needed bc?


Yes, I have an E40 socket on my reflector but how does this help me to wire the ballast?


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## wheels619 (Mar 19, 2013)

ill be on later to help you figure it out. its w640 am and im gonna smoke a wax bowl to pass back out.


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## Figong (Mar 19, 2013)

buddingcarl said:


> Guys, I need some help wiring my Philips 600W ballast (to be used with a 600W Philips SON-T Pia GreenPower). It came with absolutely no instructions so I wanted to ask before I do anything stupid.
> The way I understand the diagram, stamped on the top of the ballast, is that live and neutral wires from the power line should go into the two plugs to the left (bottom of the photo) and the live/neutral wires should go from the plugs to the right (upper part of the photo) to the lamp. Am I correct?
> 
> View attachment 2575279 View attachment 2575286
> ...


Semi-parallel.. and as long as it's after the initial cap parallel piece, and both of the lamp pieces (from ballast, and ignitor both) get tied into the bulb section, with the ignitor pieces paired (ballast to ignitor) and ignitor-neutral tied in to bulb and main neutral - it should be just fine. The diagram is accurate, and will work as intended - as long as you have chosen the proper ballast that will cooperate with that ignitor. (Have to mention that, as the Philips sets are paired by groups of models, as an aside) If it's the same ballast that was there model-wise, there should be no issues whatsoever. If my word choices leave anything to misunderstand, please let me know and I'll go with a re-wording if that'd help. 

Fi-


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## wheels619 (Mar 19, 2013)

what that guy said. ^^^^^^^


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## buddingcarl (Mar 19, 2013)

Oh my God, I actually thought that gray brick IS THE ballast... Now I get why it was cheaper than the other models... I guess I'll have to return it and get a no-name "whole package" ballast.


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## Figong (Mar 19, 2013)

buddingcarl said:


> Oh my God, I actually thought that gray brick IS THE ballast... Now I get why it was cheaper than the other models... I guess I'll have to return it and get a no-name "whole package" ballast.


If you got just the "gray brick".. you will need a bit more to make it work, yes - namely the ignitor (for the HPS spike required to light it, as a bare minimum..more if it's going to be a switchable for MH/HPS). If you can find a paired ignitor and frame to house it all w/enough electronics knowledge to DIY your own - by all means go ahead. If not, then yes.. you may wish for the whole package setup.


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## Jimdamick (Mar 19, 2013)

Figong said:


> Yup, temps will definitely be up.. hope you plan to run the lights at night and have another form of cooling in mind depending on your location on this earth.


Figong, you are way past the amps to cook your wiring. Just the flower room alone draws 33 amps which is a LOT. You need at least 2- 20 amp circuits to run your large room, and 1-15 amp circuit for your small area. What you are doing is dangerous and DON'T run 4000 watts on 1 circuit. I would run half of the lights and go make friends with an electrician quickly. Be safe and have fun.


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## Figong (Mar 19, 2013)

Jimdamick said:


> Figong, you are way past the amps to cook your wiring. Just the flower room alone draws 33 amps which is a LOT. You need at least 2- 20 amp circuits to run your large room, and 1-15 amp circuit for your small area. What you are doing is dangerous and DON'T run 4000 watts on 1 circuit. I would run half of the lights and go make friends with an electrician quickly. Be safe and have fun.


I believe you missed that I was commenting on theirs, that's not my setup and if it were mine, I'd run 3 independent lines (2 120s, and a 240) direct from the box with GFCI all the way around, as well as have multiple interrupts that are more 'tight' in terms of what amperage was allowed should I ever try to bring that amount of wattage into a single room at any given point. As an aside, I have over 20 years background in electronics.. but I do appreciate your concern - thanks for keeping an eye out for others.


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## legaleyes13 (Mar 20, 2013)

Thanks guys... I appreciate the concern, but I never intended to run 4000 watts on one regular circuit... I was gonna run the 4000watts on a light controller plugged into a 240v 30A dryer outlet, and run about 550 watts (veg lights) on the continuous 120v outlets that come with the light controller. Are you saying that this is a bad idea? I was then gonna run a 1300 watts (ac/dehum/co2) connected to a environmental controller, plugged into an ordinary 120v 15A outlet... tell me where I'm going wrong here, if I am... Thanks again...


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## supchaka (Mar 20, 2013)

Electrically the math seems fine, I think it was stemming from my comment that it might be hard to cool a 4k watt grow with a 5k btu ac unit. It's not that it might not be able to do it but a bigger unit would do it more efficiently and save money in the long run.


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## Figong (Mar 20, 2013)

supchaka said:


> Electrically the math seems fine, I think it was stemming from my comment that it might be hard to cool a 4k watt grow with a 5k btu ac unit. It's not that it might not be able to do it but a bigger unit would do it more efficiently and save money in the long run.


Agreed on this, to me the math worked but was also wondering how sane it'd be with the controller in the big picture.


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## wheels619 (Mar 20, 2013)

supchaka said:


> Electrically the math seems fine, I think it was stemming from my comment that it might be hard to cool a 4k watt grow with a 5k btu ac unit. It's not that it might not be able to do it but a bigger unit would do it more efficiently and save money in the long run.


im in cali right now with 3 lights running passive inside a 10x10 tent. my temps stay around 85 on hottest days. i think he could pull it off with just the 5k. problem being its going to be running all the time instead of taking breaks in between saving power.


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## oakley1984 (Mar 20, 2013)

Calculating Heat Load:
Heat is measured in either BTU or Kilowatts. 1KW is equivalent to 3500BTUs.
The heat load depends on a number of factor's

1.The floor area of the room
2.The heat generated by equipment
3 the heat from lighting
4.The number of room occupants
5.The ambient temp (your room's starting temp) 

1.Floor Area of Room

Room Area BTU = L x W x 40 ( H = 8foot + 5btu per foot after that)

If you have a wall that is facing the sun add in for the extra heat

Sun facing wall BTU = L x H x 40

2.Equipment
This is trickier to calculate than you might think. The wattage on equipment is the maximum power consumption rating, the actual power consumed may be less. However it is safer to overestimate the wattage than underestimate it.

Equipment BTU = Total wattage for equipment x 3.5

Ballast in room BTU = ballast wattage/2 x 3.5

3.Lighting

Lighting BTU = Total wattage for all lighting x 4

Air cooled hood BTU = wattage x 4 / 2
@
400= 200-250 cfm
600= 250-300 cfm
1k = 300-350 cfm
^ is just a guide cfm per hood will be on your ducting/SP....

4.Occupants
even being that im only there for 2 or so of the 12 hrs i like it to be able to handle the extra sweat when i smoke one.

Total Occupant BTU = Number of occupants x 400

Total Cooling Required

Add all the BTUs together.

Total Heat Load = Room Area BTU + Total Occupant BTU + Equipment BTU + Lighting BTU

If your using a portable a/c:

Total Heat Load BTU x 2

^this has been from threads if you are planning on getting one i think one that's bigger then you thought about







sample

so if we have a 3 x 3 room with 1k and 200 watt's in fan's/pump's

for room we need 360 btu
for fan we need 700 btu
1k = 4000btu
ballast in the room = 1500 btu

we would need a/c that is 6560 btu i would round up to the next size 7kbtu


air exchange
aka intake/exhaust
complete air exchange every 4-5 minutes is average for a grow room/greenhouse (co2 control)....
for heat control (no a/c) i like to use 2.5 minutes {1M is best imo}
m=air exchange in min's

l x w x h = cf / m = cfm

lets use are room from above as a sample
3 x 3 x 8 = 72 /2.5 = 28.8 (30)
highend turn over = 72cfm
lowend turn over = 30cfm
now for the light 1k = 300-350cfm

exhaust system and air-cooled hood should be separated but most ppl cant/dont ( it's spendy) so add them together if your using 1 fan for both

the fan size we need is 330-422 remember you have duct loss (SP) in the sample room i would use a 440 cfm fan

SEER & EER ratings NO they are not the same.....

EER, or the Energy Efficient Ratio, is a measure of how efficiently a cooling system will operate when the outdoor temperature is at a specific level - usually 95°F. EER is calculated as a simple ratio of BTU's to the amount of power a unit consumes in watts. Here is an example using an air conditioner with 12,000 BTU's and consuming 1500 watts of power:

EER = BTU's / Watts

12,000 / 1500 = 8

EER = 8


While it is true that the higher the EER and BTU's, the more efficient the cooling system, many make the mistake of purchasing oversized air conditioners and ignoring EER ratings. The following is an example of an air conditioner with 12,000 BTU's and 1200 watts:

12,000 / 1200 = 10

EER =10

This would mean that this second unit can produce the same amount of cooling but more energy efficiently. Therefore, to save money on your monthly electric bill, choose a cooling system by getting an appropriately sized unit with a high EER.

I'm not taking credit for all this info.

Heh.

stop being idiots and guessing... oh that sounds right!
doesnt seem proper
blah 
blah
blah.


dumbasses.


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## wheels619 (Mar 20, 2013)

oakley1984 said:


> I'm not taking credit for all this info.
> 
> Heh.
> 
> ...


and you can still with all kindness go and fuck yourself...  say something yes comment away but their is no reason to be an asshole about anything said in these threads.


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## legaleyes13 (Mar 20, 2013)

I would go with a higher BTU a/c but like I said, the environmental controller can only handle 15amps and I'm already pushing the limit with the 5000 BTUs... and on top of that, I'm a little paranoid about extra electricity (not so much now that you guys say I'll actually be saving electricity because the a/c wouldn't run as often)


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## vangs (Mar 24, 2013)

bricktown73 said:


> you got it, but you are taking a huge risk connecting your ballast to a 40 amp breaker, you need a 2 pole 20 amp to be safe.


im doing the same thing and had 1 question, before changing the amps and changing the hot wires, how do i disconnect the power to where im safe to run the new amps and outlets?


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## Figong (Mar 24, 2013)

vangs said:


> im doing the same thing and had 1 question, before changing the amps and changing the hot wires, how do i disconnect the power to where im safe to run the new amps and outlets?


As long as you don't have a dedicated circuit alongside your main, your main should kill all power to the place... if dedicated circuit, you can/will find hot, and I do mean -hot- wires as most secondary circuits are dedicated to air conditioning. Would highly recommend something to test -everything- in the box before hand goes in.. make sure you're wearing thick sole rubber shoes.. and -ONE HAND- in the box at a time....if there's hot, you do not want to complete a circuit with 2 hands - especially if it's a 240 with that amount of current - it's more than capable of inducing heart attack, or cutting limbs right off of you. What I shared isn't to scare you, it's to keep you safe should you wish to undertake this project.


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## bimple (Mar 31, 2013)

I am growing in a closet that already has an electric outlet, and I was wondering if a 600 watt grow light, an inline phatfilter, an intake fan and 2 small wall mount fans would be ok one an average household 2 plug outlet assuming that I make sure nothing else is plugged in to the same circuit?


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## Figong (Mar 31, 2013)

bimple said:


> I am growing in a closet that already has an electric outlet, and I was wondering if a 600 watt grow light, an inline phatfilter, an intake fan and 2 small wall mount fans would be ok one an average household 2 plug outlet assuming that I make sure nothing else is plugged in to the same circuit?


That would depend on the Amperage rating.. as the average household circuit in my place is 30A, with 4 being 50A or higher - you'd have to check and see what the rating is at the circuit breaker for us to safely/accurately answer that.


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## supchaka (Mar 31, 2013)

bimple said:


> I am growing in a closet that already has an electric outlet, and I was wondering if a 600 watt grow light, an inline phatfilter, an intake fan and 2 small wall mount fans would be ok one an average household 2 plug outlet assuming that I make sure nothing else is plugged in to the same circuit?


My house was built 8 years ago and has 15 amp circuits.


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## roidrage152 (Mar 31, 2013)

bimple said:


> I am growing in a closet that already has an electric outlet, and I was wondering if a 600 watt grow light, an inline phatfilter, an intake fan and 2 small wall mount fans would be ok one an average household 2 plug outlet assuming that I make sure nothing else is plugged in to the same circuit?


If you are confident nothing else is sharing that circuit, what you have is well within acceptable range. The 600w light will pull 5-6 amps, i believe my 8" intake fans were listed at like 2-3 amps, and amperage on smaller fans is negligible, even at an amp a piece still under 11 amps total.


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## legaleyes13 (Mar 31, 2013)

Hey guys... I've posted on this thread a few times and with all of your help, I'm now ready to purchase the light controller that will get this new grow started... this is the one I have my eye on http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/powerbox-plugplay-7500w-light-control-240v-120v-outlets-p-2807.html but I just want to make a 100% sure that it will hook up to my dryer outlet without any problems, so if any of you experts can give it a look and let me know, I'd really appreciate it... Thanks


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## wheels619 (Apr 1, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> Hey guys... I've posted on this thread a few times and with all of your help, I'm now ready to purchase the light controller that will get this new grow started... this is the one I have my eye on http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/powerbox-plugplay-7500w-light-control-240v-120v-outlets-p-2807.html but I just want to make a 100% sure that it will hook up to my dryer outlet without any problems, so if any of you experts can give it a look and let me know, I'd really appreciate it... Thanks


in all honesty it should. its rated for 30 amps and 7500 watts. if the plugs dont match up you may have to visit home depot and spend 10 bucks on a replacement plug end that you need. but id contact the company or the people your are ordering it from to confirm that it comes with the right plug. no point ending up with a 30 amp plug that doesnt match your wall outlet. i was going to get this exact model actually. decided against it due to lack of knowledge of the product. i decided not to risk it last time and got a lighting controller that was guaranteed to work off the bat. but i will end up getting one in the near future anyways. another op.


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## legaleyes13 (Apr 1, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> in all honesty it should. its rated for 30 amps and 7500 watts. if the plugs dont match up you may have to visit home depot and spend 10 bucks on a replacement plug end that you need. but id contact the company or the people your are ordering it from to confirm that it comes with the right plug. no point ending up with a 30 amp plug that doesnt match your wall outlet. i was going to get this exact model actually. decided against it due to lack of knowledge of the product. i decided not to risk it last time and got a lighting controller that was guaranteed to work off the bat. but i will end up getting one in the near future anyways. another op.


Thanks brotha... I'm happy to hear that. If the worst that can happen is that I have to take a trip to Home Depot then I'll go ahead and grab it. Which one did you settle on?


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## wheels619 (Apr 1, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> Thanks brotha... I'm happy to hear that. If the worst that can happen is that I have to take a trip to Home Depot then I'll go ahead and grab it. Which one did you settle on?


http://www.titancontrols.net/products/lighting/helios-4.aspx this is the one i got. decided to get it becuz i didnt have to change the ballast power cords. it has universal outlets on it so that you can power your ballasts with the 110v cable on short runs. if your ballasts were placed farther say out of the room or 15+ ft away or so id go with the thicker 220v power cords. but such a short run say 6 ft or so at 5 amps for me isnt much of a problem. if you get a controller with only 220 outlets u will need to buy 220 power cords for eaach of your ballasts. they cost about 10-15 bucks each at your local hydro store.


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## Tripped circuits (Apr 1, 2013)

a simple rule with electric to find amperage would be for example. A 600 watt light, wired 120v would be 600/120 = 5 amps. The same light at 240v would be 600/240= 2.5 amps. You could run 15 amps on a 15 amp circuit without blowing the circuit, but you could be overheating the wire and potentially cause a fire. Always assume a 1.25 safety factor. so a 600w light at 120 volt would be 6.25 amps [(600/120)x1.25] with the safety factor. The biggest fear with electricity is not electrocution, but fire. On top of that, most people are not well equipped to deal with a fire, I recommend a fire extinguisher with an ABC rating. Be safe not sorry. 

just my two cents


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## legaleyes13 (Apr 1, 2013)

@wheels - I do intend to place the ballasts out of the room. Does that mean I should go find me some of those 220 power cords?


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## wheels619 (Apr 2, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> @wheels - I do intend to place the ballasts out of the room. Does that mean I should go find me some of those 220 power cords?


yes if the amperage and voltage exceed the recommended or for long runs of cable.. should be an imprinted on the cables.


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## Twiggs1620 (Apr 4, 2013)

I have a question about a device i can use to measure the actual wattage draw of my LED light? would one use a multimeter? or is there a specific device? I have heard from people saying their measured wattage is lower than their rated wattage. And I built my LEDs myself so i kinda want to know the actual draw rather than adding all the watts together and guessing. (Including fans ect.) I know i am not a master electrician and my setup is probably going to cause i fire some time in the future but ill get to the safety of my elecrical connections in my next apartment. ( or second indoor grow).


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## supchaka (Apr 5, 2013)

You can use a device called a kill-a-watt. Google it


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## Twiggs1620 (Apr 6, 2013)

Thanks man, found it and its being delivered. Eager to find out my usage.


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## bobby brown pants (Apr 8, 2013)

Hello, I have a problem with my ballast if someone could help me.

I plug it in and my bulb comes on but it only lasts about 45 seconds before it goes out and my ballast starts buzzing. It's a brand new ballast 600w never been used before and my bulb is a 600w hps.
Any ideas would be appreciated, thanks.


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## Scaffâ¢ (Apr 8, 2013)

Wonder if anyone can help me, I have 4 600w HID lights and 2 150w fans all plugged into this heavy duty 8 way contactor ( http://www.3ch.co.uk/grow-lights/con.../prod_935.html ). My problem is it doesn't reach the plug sockets on the wall, they're about 4 metres away. I cant seem to find a really heavy duty extension lead that I think is sufficient enough. 


My question is, can I make one and if so, what would you suggest I need?


Also, I have 4 mini clip fans and want wire them all into one socket. Can I wire these in series?


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## bobby brown pants (Apr 9, 2013)

bobby brown pants said:


> Hello, I have a problem with my ballast if someone could help me.
> 
> I plug it in and my bulb comes on but it only lasts about 45 seconds before it goes out and my ballast starts buzzing. It's a brand new ballast 600w never been used before and my bulb is a 600w hps.
> Any ideas would be appreciated, thanks.


All of a sudden it's started working today, not done anything with it. could it be a loose wire or something?


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## Figong (Apr 9, 2013)

bobby brown pants said:


> All of a sudden it's started working today, not done anything with it. could it be a loose wire or something?


Either loose wire / faulty solder to the switch... or you don't have your bulb seated properly. If it's the bulb.. wait for it to be off.. grab it with a glove if it just went off... give the threads on the bulb a -very- light coating of graphite, and then as you tighten the bulb again.. -gently- rock it back and forth in the socket until such time as it's a tight fit and is in completely. If you don't, it can arc to the bulb, causing other issues.. as well as not having the bulb come on at all. If it's a switchable MH / HPS, check both sides and see if it's just one side of it acting up (with appropriate bulb) .. if you get hum but no light on the HPS side, or if it's HPS - would definitely point for the most part to the ignitor section of the circuitry. Hope this helps a bit.


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## bobby brown pants (Apr 9, 2013)

Thanks for the reply. I did try and tighten the bulb this morning so it may have been that, it's been switched on about an hour now and not gone off so hopefullly it's sorted. Thanks again.


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## Figong (Apr 9, 2013)

bobby brown pants said:


> Thanks for the reply. I did try and tighten the bulb this morning so it may have been that, it's been switched on about an hour now and not gone off so hopefullly it's sorted. Thanks again.


As a general rule, I'll graphite the threads every time during change, just so I don't get a nasty surprise.. like metal expanding and potentially causing the light to go out mid-cycle at night when I'm sleeping while it should be on. Disruption of photoperiod repeatedly may cause some headaches to your grow.


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## sehnsee (Apr 10, 2013)

I'll be running a 6000 watt indoor grow in a newer house built in 2007. 

In addition to 6000 watts from the lights, ill have a 24000 btu mini split, plus some standard household appliances, TVs etc 

would I need to have anything changed or modified before I begin? I know some growers in industrial areas use 220v as opposed to 110, what's the advantage of that ? 

Is there anything u recommend prior to me starting the grow to avoid fire hazard?


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## Figong (Apr 10, 2013)

sehnsee said:


> I'll be running a 6000 watt indoor grow in a newer house built in 2007.
> 
> In addition to 6000 watts from the lights, ill have a 24000 btu mini split, plus some standard household appliances, TVs etc
> 
> ...


220 drops the Amperage.. that said, make sure you don't max out each breaker, leave a 20% cushion for other short term appliances, and to also guarantee that the wiring and all things related will not get stressed and fail, get hot, or potentially start a fire.

A = W / V .. so in the 110 vs 220 with 6kW as your mention... 

6000W / 110v = 54.54A 
6000W / 220v = 27.27A

Above all else, do the math twice.. verify all circuits in the box and where they go, then check it again.. tag all outlets, and toggle them off 1 by 1, verify all wall switches too. If you do need a higher breaker, make sure that if you're doing it yourself that you -do not- just swap out the breaker. The wire has to be capable of what you're going to be shooting down it or you're going to have a hell of a barn-burner on your hands. If any other questions, by all means ask.


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## sehnsee (Apr 10, 2013)

So if my rooms existing power outlets are not capable of handling the 6000 watt lighting etc, would it be ok for me to run half of the lights to a power strip and heavy duty extension cord plugging them in another room that's on a different breaker ? So 3000 watt per breaker or 2000 watts to 3 different breakers? Would that be a safer Bet ?


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## Figong (Apr 10, 2013)

sehnsee said:


> So if my rooms existing power outlets are not capable of handling the 6000 watt lighting etc, would it be ok for me to run half of the lights to a power strip and heavy duty extension cord plugging them in another room that's on a different breaker ? So 3000 watt per breaker or 2000 watts to 3 different breakers? Would that be a safer Bet ?


Yes, as long as the extension cord rating as it's listed can handle it, and make sure that it is UL-rated as well - you could easily do it that way, would recommend that if you do.. that you put in hooks and run the cord at ceiling level just so you don't have tripping hazards that may rip things down in the grow room (ballasts and lights are the first things that come to mind)


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## wheels619 (Apr 10, 2013)

sehnsee said:


> So if my rooms existing power outlets are not capable of handling the 6000 watt lighting etc, would it be ok for me to run half of the lights to a power strip and heavy duty extension cord plugging them in another room that's on a different breaker ? So 3000 watt per breaker or 2000 watts to 3 different breakers? Would that be a safer Bet ?


you will never be able to power 6000 watts worth of lights and a 24000 btu mini split without 220. possibly if you have someone pull in a big enough run of 110 but it would be much easier and cheaper in my opinion to just get the wiring done correctly. you will have extention cords running thruout your house. hint. you can only run one thousand watt per wall outlet. and many rooms run on the same curcuit. in other word the outlets in that one room probably all share the same wiring. which means you are still stuck running one thousand per room ruffly. minisplit im guessing is already supposed to run on 220 just becuz of its size. you would need 6 15 amp 110 outlets to run 6 1000 watt lights. or a good 100 amp pull of it. but then you might as well swith to 220 with a nice lighting controller to master the power and to have a few 110 sources for power for inline fans etc....


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## thebugslaaaa (Apr 11, 2013)

I am also trying to run about 6-8k watts in my basement at the moment. There is already 220v wired down there for the washer/dryer. I assume this is hooked up to a 30 amp breaker (I have not had time to check yet I just moved in) My question is what exactly do I need to do to ensure all lights and fans and possibly a/c unit will run cool and safe? The lights alone will be just under/over 30 amps, plus everything else it seems I need at least 40-50 amps to work with to be safe. Do I need to wire up a separate sub-panel in the grow room with 1 or 2 devoted 30 or 60 amp breakers? Or can I just run some 10 gauge romex from the service panel itself? I have an electrician friend that will be helping but I am just curious where to start and how much this will cost! Thanks in advance!


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## wheels619 (Apr 11, 2013)

thebugslaaaa said:


> I am also trying to run about 6-8k watts in my basement at the moment. There is already 220v wired down there for the washer/dryer. I assume this is hooked up to a 30 amp breaker (I have not had time to check yet I just moved in) My question is what exactly do I need to do to ensure all lights and fans and possibly a/c unit will run cool and safe? The lights alone will be just under/over 30 amps, plus everything else it seems I need at least 40-50 amps to work with to be safe. Do I need to wire up a separate sub-panel in the grow room with 1 or 2 devoted 30 or 60 amp breakers? Or can I just run some 10 gauge romex from the service panel itself? I have an electrician friend that will be helping but I am just curious where to start and how much this will cost! Thanks in advance!


id run in another 50 amp to be safe. run all the lights off the 50 and have the other equipment such as dehumid ac blah blah blah water chillers blah blah blah all hooked up to the 30 amp if possible. but either way you are correct. you are short a few amps that you need to get started regardless. pull in some cable before you set up. get an electrician to do it as he needs to add another breaker regardless of size to your existing panel. also its easier to get an electrician to do work if you dont have a grow op in the way. lol.


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## thebugslaaaa (Apr 11, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> id run in another 50 amp to be safe. run all the lights off the 50 and have the other equipment such as dehumid ac blah blah blah water chillers blah blah blah all hooked up to the 30 amp if possible. but either way you are correct. you are short a few amps that you need to get started regardless. pull in some cable before you set up. get an electrician to do it as he needs to add another breaker regardless of size to your existing panel. also its easier to get an electrician to do work if you dont have a grow op in the way. lol.


Ok sounds good wheels, so to be clear, as long as I have at least one empty slot in my service panel I should be good because I can just run sub-panel from there correct? Also should I run the 220 for the lights and then a separate 110 for all of my fans/De-humidifyers etc.? I would love to have multiple 220 and 110 recepticles down there. Also was I correct on the 10 gauge romex wiring?? Thanks again wheels your a lifesaver!


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## wheels619 (Apr 11, 2013)

thebugslaaaa said:


> Ok sounds good wheels, so to be clear, as long as I have at least one empty slot in my service panel I should be good because I can just run sub-panel from there correct? Also should I run the 220 for the lights and then a separate 110 for all of my fans/De-humidifyers etc.? I would love to have multiple 220 and 110 recepticles down there. Also was I correct on the 10 gauge romex wiring?? Thanks again wheels your a lifesaver!


it depends on how you want to set up the pulls. if you are pulling in 30 amps of 220 its 10 gauge min. if you are pulling in 50 amp of 220 its 6 gauge. but in all honesty i would actually calculate how much max wattage you need in both 220 and 110 before deciding how to proceed.


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## legaleyes13 (Apr 17, 2013)

Hey guys, I just came across what might be a pretty scary problem... RF interference. Now I haven't even setup yet, but I do have 4 digital ballast and have heard that many of them cause RF interference... needless to say I don't want the cable company to come knocking on my door, so if you know of any ways to avoid this RF problem, please let me know... thanks in advance.


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## wheels619 (Apr 17, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> Hey guys, I just came across what might be a pretty scary problem... RF interference. Now I haven't even setup yet, but I do have 4 digital ballast and have heard that many of them cause RF interference... needless to say I don't want the cable company to come knocking on my door, so if you know of any ways to avoid this RF problem, please let me know... thanks in advance.


yeah buy nice ballasts. you get what you pay for in a way. but in all honesty i wouldnt be worried unless your tv is totally fucking up.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Apr 17, 2013)

What should it cost to add a 200amp panel next to an existing one or would it be cheaper just to add 200amps to an existing?


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## legaleyes13 (Apr 17, 2013)

I have iPower ballasts... they're cheap (I don't know if they're cheaply made though) and made in China.... but they do say that they're shielded. Either way, I've heard that some of them cause RF problems, but I've also heard that Lumatek ballasts have caused RF interference and they're pretty much the best in the business... I'm honesty scared. I wonder if a ferrite core solve the potential problem...


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## wheels619 (Apr 17, 2013)

legaleyes13 said:


> I have iPower ballasts... they're cheap (I don't know if they're cheaply made though) and made in China.... but they do say that they're shielded. Either way, I've heard that some of them cause RF problems, but I've also heard that Lumatek ballasts have caused RF interference and they're pretty much the best in the business... I'm honesty scared. I wonder if a ferrite core solve the potential problem...


plug it in nest to your cable box. see if it fucks it up. if not i think your good dude. may be you over reacting a bit.


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## legaleyes13 (Apr 17, 2013)

Thanks, wheels... I appreciate the advice.


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## Figong (Apr 18, 2013)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> What should it cost to add a 200amp panel next to an existing one or would it be cheaper just to add 200amps to an existing?


It'll cost a few.. if the wiring is pre-existing and deemed safe.. it'll be much cheaper than if they have to drill holes and fish walls with brand new wiring. As for what it should cost in a nutshell, your location will ultimately determine that... would be a good idea to get a few estimates and go from there for a ballpark/average.


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## Shovlhd (Apr 18, 2013)

How's it going?
I have a question about upgrading my electrical service.
My shop is currently running a 60 amp breaker box or 60 amp service and I would like to upgrade to at least 100 amp service.
Is this something I can do myself?
If so...How?
Is it just a matter of replacing the current panel with a 100 amp breaker box or panel?
Thanks


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## fr3d12 (Apr 18, 2013)

Hi all,

Great thread full of solid information.

I'd be grateful if any electrician could help.

I'm going to run a 220mm computer fan in my tent and before I wire it up I need to know if my old Dell laptop charger is suitable for the job.The fan is 12V 0.2A and on the charger it says-INPUT AC 100-240v ~(1.5A)50-60Hz -OUTPUT DC 19.5V(19.5V) 3.34A(3.34A).I'm thinking already that's it a bit of overkill but no harm in asking.
The only other power supply I could find was an old phone charger rated at 5V 0.15A.


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## wheels619 (Apr 19, 2013)

Shovlhd said:


> How's it going?
> I have a question about upgrading my electrical service.
> My shop is currently running a 60 amp breaker box or 60 amp service and I would like to upgrade to at least 100 amp service.
> Is this something I can do myself?
> ...


u need the proper wiring to support the power. if its already in place it could be as simple as changing a breaker. but i highly doubt it. you will probably need to add a new pull of cable and a new drop spot along with the proper breakers. why would you need more than 60 amps?


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## spek9 (Apr 19, 2013)

fr3d12 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Great thread full of solid information.
> 
> ...


This is a fire hazard. The extra voltage will cause the fan to work harder than it is meant to work, possibly causing it to overheat.

Go to Radio Shack and pick up a 12v unit, or pick up a 120v desk fan for $15 or so 

-spek


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## fr3d12 (Apr 19, 2013)

spek9 said:


> This is a fire hazard. The extra voltage will cause the fan to work harder than it is meant to work, possibly causing it to overheat.
> 
> Go to Radio Shack and pick up a 12v unit, or pick up a 120v desk fan for $15 or so
> 
> -spek


Thanks for your reply.
I found another old router power supply rated at 12v 1A and that worked out ok to use,just wondering now if I could hook up another fan to the same power supply so therefore running two fans off it? I just bought a desk fan from Amazon and it is too loud at night when there is no other noise.


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## spek9 (Apr 19, 2013)

Sure can! If they are all 200mA (0.2A) you can safely put up to four of them. All four running at the same time will draw a total of 0.8A, leaving another 0.2A free so things don't overheat, particularly if you have a fan that seizes up.

Happy growing and blowing 

-spek


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## fr3d12 (Apr 19, 2013)

spek9 said:


> Sure can! If they are all 200mA (0.2A) you can safely put up to four of them. All four running at the same time will draw a total of 0.8A, leaving another 0.2A free so things don't overheat, particularly if you have a fan that seizes up.
> 
> Happy growing and blowing
> 
> -spek


Cheers spek.


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## Shovlhd (Apr 19, 2013)

Thanks for the input.
I was thinking that 6 x 1000 watters is approx 27 amps and I would like to expand to approx. 12 x 1000 watts along with water pumps, timers and fans I'll be pushing the limits.
What do you think?


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## wheels619 (Apr 19, 2013)

Shovlhd said:


> Thanks for the input.
> I was thinking that 6 x 1000 watters is approx 27 amps and I would like to expand to approx. 12 x 1000 watts along with water pumps, timers and fans I'll be pushing the limits.
> What do you think?


makes sense. check the gauge of the cable. best bet before spending a bunch of money.


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## Sparty82 (Apr 19, 2013)

Shovlhd said:


> Thanks for the input.
> I was thinking that 6 x 1000 watters is approx 27


You sure? I always figure a 1000 watt at 9 amps.


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## supchaka (Apr 19, 2013)

6k at 120 is 50 amps with no buffer.
27.2 at 220 with no buffer. I'd give some extra for sure


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## thecoolman (Apr 19, 2013)

supchaka said:


> 6k at 120 is 50 amps with no buffer.
> 27.2 at 220 with no buffer. I'd give some extra for sure


or 25 at 240


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## spek9 (Apr 20, 2013)

I don't know if it has been taken into consideration as I haven't actually done the math on the 1Kw setup, but one should always ensure at least a 2A spike when the lamp initially starts up. 

If they all kick on at exactly the same time, that could be 12A+ for 6 x 1Kw lamps firing all at the same time. Fans and anything else with motors will also have initial spikes.

Nobody wants a breaker tripping because of initial load, especially if you're not around!

-spek


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## JLStiffy (Apr 20, 2013)

Start up on 1000W is 15% increase for about 10 mins, as how it was explained to me by a electrician who now runs a grow shop. But amps increase to obv, correct me if I am wrong but i have seen product chart comparison were its 6.9 amps to start and 4.9 amps continuous for 1000HID and 2.9AMP for 600. I could not believe it until my bud used his AMP meter to read. But its simple, use the OHMS law and it works out equally as well. Hope some of this was useful


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## wyteboi (Apr 21, 2013)

JLStiffy said:


> Start up on 1000W is 15% increase for about 10 mins, as how it was explained to me by a electrician who now runs a grow shop. But amps increase to obv, correct me if I am wrong but i have seen product chart comparison were its 6.9 amps to start and 4.9 amps continuous for 1000HID and 2.9AMP for 600. I could not believe it until my bud used his AMP meter to read. But its simple, use the OHMS law and it works out equally as well. Hope some of this was useful


How are you getting the amps so low from a 1000 or a 600? That would be running at 220v , correct? 


sorry if i missed something , just getting caught up on old threads , its been a while.



soil


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## spek9 (Apr 21, 2013)

wyteboi said:


> How are you getting the amps so low from a 1000 or a 600? That would be running at 220v , correct?
> 
> 
> sorry if i missed something , just getting caught up on old threads , its been a while.
> ...


Yes, they're calculating running the ballasts off of 208/220/240v, so half of the amps across each ~120v leg.

-spek


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## JLStiffy (Apr 22, 2013)

Bingo! U still get the electrical bill but running lower amps lets u have some more power to play with.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Apr 23, 2013)

Figong said:


> It'll cost a few.. if the wiring is pre-existing and deemed safe.. it'll be much cheaper than if they have to drill holes and fish walls with brand new wiring. As for what it should cost in a nutshell, your location will ultimately determine that... would be a good idea to get a few estimates and go from there for a ballpark/average.


Apparently they have to send the electric company out because we only have 200amp service and they need to give us a quote to upgrade to 400amp.


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## spek9 (Apr 23, 2013)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> Apparently they have to send the electric company out because we only have 200amp service and they need to give us a quote to upgrade to 400amp.


FACT!

A lot of the time the lines coming into a residence will not be capable of carrying this much amperage. It is ALWAYS advisable to check with your local utility before considering upgrading your main panel.

Replacing lines from the street is not cheap. You're talking a whole heap of copper depending on the run length. Anything relatively new may carry 400A regardless of what your panel says, but always check.

Lucius, I'd advise asking whoever gives you a quote to inform you of the gauge of copper coming into the building. It wouldn't surprise me if they try to rip you off and say you need a new run.

Find out what you've got incoming, then snap some pics of your panel with the cover off. It is possible that you could get away with a new main breaker only, or a new panel (or even just a bypass).

Don't just buy an 'upgrade'. Dig deeper. You may have enough to work with what you have with some legal and code-worthy workarounds.

We won't know until you can get more info though.

A full panel upgrade with cable from the street can run into the $thousands.

-spek

EDIT: ps. Please don't take the cover off of your electrical panel unless you feel comfortable doing so, have well-insulated shoes on and are confident knowing what not to touch.


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## legallyflying (Apr 23, 2013)

Can you even get 400 amp panel for a single residential?


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## spek9 (Apr 23, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> Can you even get 400 amp panel for a single residential?


Very unlikely, unless you're running a car repair shop in your garage with an electrically-powered hoist, and one beautiful 240v air compressor.

Mind you, this could depend on your location 

-spek

EDIT: 200A is pretty much the cap on a resi electrical setup here in Canada... this is what I'm normally used to working with in residential setups. 400A is *highly* unusual if it isn't commercial or commercial/residential.


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## WestSide Ukiah (Apr 23, 2013)

You can get 400 amps in residential neighborhoods around here. But they will want to know what the load is. 400 amps is a BIG service for an average home. I have seen many 5 unit apartment buildings running 400 amp services with 100 amp subs to the units. --for perspective. 

Around here the city municipal electric utility will upgrade overhead triplex service drops for no charge when you do a panel upgrade. And I've only seen people charged on underground service upgrades when a bigger conduit was needed for the bigger wire. But I'm sure there are limits to their generosity. --I just haven't encountered it yet. 

Most service panels around here are Metered Mains. Meaning the meter socket is integrated into the main panel which acts as the main disconnect too. So almost all main panel upgrades need the utility involved to disconnect/Reconnect. They will disconnect by appointment with no problem. But you need a signed off permit to get them to reconnect the service to a new service panel. So it can be a balancing act to arrange for:

service disconnect, 
change out panel, 
get electrical inspection by the local "Authority Having Jurisdiction",
get utility to reconnect service...

All before the ice cream in the freezer melts.

A 200 amp panel change around here is $1000-$1200 generally. The permit is just under a hundred bucks.


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## JLStiffy (Apr 23, 2013)

I have the capability to have 400AMps pull off my transformer, I have my own. So I have 200 going into house and another pulling off to a temporary service pole. Mind you, you cannot have two meters on one pull and both meters receive its own bill. To go a 400amp service you generally need to get a permit I was told for that, but when you live out in the country were electrical is your way of life, no natural gas etc, u get your own transformer that allows for that demand. I know a legal grow show that had a 400amp upgrade and it took some juggling to get it, was not easy... But he paid for his power.  Its hard work to pull cables ( I know) but it can be fast and its a day job. Go get your 400amp service if can, looks good for selling property too  I know from experience.. Oh. my familys farm has a 400amp service as well. Not to uncommon out in the country.


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## spek9 (Apr 23, 2013)

JLStiffy said:


> I have the capability to have 400AMps pull off my transformer, I have my own. So I have 200 going into house and another pulling off to a temporary service pole. Mind you, you cannot have two meters on one pull and both meters receive its own bill. To go a 400amp service you generally need to get a permit I was told for that, but when you live out in the country were electrical is your way of life, no natural gas etc, u get your own transformer that allows for that demand. I know a legal grow show that had a 400amp upgrade and it took some juggling to get it, was not easy... But he paid for his power.  Its hard work to pull cables ( I know) but it can be fast and its a day job. Go get your 400amp service if can, looks good for selling property too  I know from experience.. Oh. my familys farm has a 400amp service as well. Not to uncommon out in the country.


It's wonderful to see another fellow Canadian 

Note that you're speaking about a farm. Farm properties (whether in CA or US) have much different requirements.

It is particularly difficult to request a 400A service in downtown Toronto (Calgary or Vancouver) or Los Angeles than it is for a 200 acre land out in the boondocks when you've got land to run 

I promise that if you ask for a 400A feed in any city in North America for a residential property, it will raise eyebrows unless you've got a very obvious visual item that requires such power sitting in your driveway.

-spek


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## Lucius Vorenus (Apr 24, 2013)

spek9 said:


> FACT!
> 
> A lot of the time the lines coming into a residence will not be capable of carrying this much amperage. It is ALWAYS advisable to check with your local utility before considering upgrading your main panel.
> 
> ...


sorry man this is not residential. its a commercial building


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## Niko36 (Apr 24, 2013)

You could save my life....I am a "newbie " my ex partner and the construction guys made me put a 22k btu AC in my basement, against my bertter judgment venting not outside, but in the room where I have all the electrical.. ( 15 electronic ballasts and all the plugs ,all screed in to wood" the moment I fired up the AC, as I though the themp in the controll room went to 120fr. The walls are hot to the touch, as I thought would happen. I'm in the process of building a a 1 inch high density styrofoam box for the back of the AC,to connect it to an 8 inch flex insulated ducting with a 8 inch 875CFM blowing the exhaust straight outside.. As I says this is my first time at this. Am I nuts, or might this work? I'm doing this in the am, so a quick answer would save me....


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## legallyflying (Apr 26, 2013)

Ok. 8" exhaust...but where is the inlet? Could
Work if your blasting in and out. 

Exhausting hot moist air into your electrical room... Some had a big bowl of stupid for breakfast. Hope you get it sorted out!


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## wellgreen (Apr 27, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> Ok. 8" exhaust...but where is the inlet? Could
> Work if your blasting in and out.
> 
> Exhausting hot moist air into your electrical room... Some had a big bowl of stupid for breakfast. Hope you get it sorted out!


Hello and hope you can help. I have an electrician coming round to fit out my cellar (potential grow room) and I want to make sure all my electrics are safe without giving my game away!! I intend to run a 600 hps & possible 400HPS for veg, together with an 8inch exhaust fan and a oscillating fan. What would the above set up be amps/watts wise and what domestic appliances could I say I was using to match the same power output, eg could I tell my electrician that I was putting a washing machine & tumble dryer in the space and that they would use an equivalent amount of power as my intended set up. Cheers in advance.


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## wheels619 (Apr 27, 2013)

wellgreen said:


> Hello and hope you can help. I have an electrician coming round to fit out my cellar (potential grow room) and I want to make sure all my electrics are safe without giving my game away!! I intend to run a 600 hps & possible 400HPS for veg, together with an 8inch exhaust fan and a oscillating fan. What would the above set up be amps/watts wise and what domestic appliances could I say I was using to match the same power output, eg could I tell my electrician that I was putting a washing machine & tumble dryer in the space and that they would use an equivalent amount of power as my intended set up. Cheers in advance.


how about you say your gonna turn it into a little work shop for something. no need to explain. tell him you need a few outlets in the room for a refrigerator and freezer. although if you tell him what you need i doubt he would ask.


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## legallyflying (Apr 27, 2013)

Watts diveded by volts = amps 

So 600+400+ 100= 1100 plus 10% inefficiency = about 1200/120= 10 amps. 

Your not going to raise any questions running one or two outlets. You could probably save allot of cash and just run it yourself. Nothing could be easier...provides you don't kill yourself


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Apr 28, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> Can you even get 400 amp panel for a single residential?


 normally what they will do is give you a second 200 amp service. but you need to kinda justify it to them. addition to the house; guest house that you are renting out; Jacuzzi; huge saltwater tank; heavy machinery workshop; etc...


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## Tripped circuits (Apr 29, 2013)

if you do a load calculation you can go to your AHJ authority having jurisdiction and file for a permit for a 200 to 400 amp upgrade. Normally what you would need to do is run a parallel set of 200 amp conductors to a new 400 amp meter and put it where your old 200 amp meter. You will also need to set up a temporary meter if you dont want to lose power while the AHJ takes there time to do inspections. If you do get an approval they will probably make you put in disconnects before the main service panel which means now you have to change the wire going to the service panel. Well not change it but make sure that it has its own ground and neutral. In the main control panel you will need to separate all the ground and neutral wires into there own bars. You will need to make sure that these bars are not bonded to each other in the main panel. Normally a 200 amp meter will have a neutral bar already installed, you will have to go buy a ground bar with enough spaces and make sure you tap a screw into the box and make sure its threaded. A nut on the end of a bolt does not pass ground very well unless you scrap the paint off the box and add a star washer, but imo that is not the best practice. Also in new jersey the new thing is to have a 400 amp disco on the supply side before the 400 amp meter panel. A nema 3r 400 amp disco runs up to 1600 for standard paint, and alot more for stainless. If anyone has any questions that are technical I will be glad to help. If you need to justify installing a 400amp service and do not have electric heat you can say you plan on switching to electric heat soon and want to upgrade service beforehand. If they want to know why you would switch to electric heat tell them you are interested in putting up a photovoltaic array on your roof and electric will be made at home. Just my 2 cents or so.


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## Tripped circuits (Apr 29, 2013)

p.s. I have installed 4 400 amp services in new jersey in the last year, and all of them have been for solar projects on residential houses. All these houses have been updated by the utility to 50 kva transformers. Townships dont want to hand out approvals for 400 amp services but it is doable.


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## tsboss1 (May 1, 2013)

Hey guys, I am trying to put 4 600 watt lights in one room along with a 12k btu a/c unit which says it uses 1100 watts. I have a feeling that this is to much power in 1 room so im wondering what would need to be done and how much do you think itll cost if I do have to upgrade anything? 

Thanks


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## spek9 (May 1, 2013)

tsboss1 said:


> Hey guys, I am trying to put 4 600 watt lights in one room along with a 12k btu a/c unit which says it uses 1100 watts. I have a feeling that this is to much power in 1 room so im wondering what would need to be done and how much do you think itll cost if I do have to upgrade anything?
> 
> Thanks


If this is just your standard bedroom, this is most certainly too much.

If you want to run on standard 120v 15A circuits, I'd run three... one for each set of two lamps, and then a separate for the AC.

Costs depend on the fixtures you have and whether you can connect to 240v or not. If not, you're going to pretty much need three dedicated 15A circuits that don't touch anything else... there's no doubt you'll want to add fans etc.

You can however run 14/3 extensions (or 12/3 over 25') from other rooms to run things off of. I don't like having cords all over everywhere, but it is possible if you test and run safely. More detail will help here.

-spek


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## tsboss1 (May 1, 2013)

spek9 said:


> If this is just your standard bedroom, this is most certainly too much.
> 
> If you want to run on standard 120v 15A circuits, I'd run three... one for each set of two lamps, and then a separate for the AC.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply. I just did a little search on google and read this:

"There is an allowance of 1800 watts per outlet for 15 Ampere 120 volt convenience outlets ans 2400 watts per outlet for 20 Ampere outlets."

So does each outlet = 15A? If so, couldnt I just plug the 2 lights in 1 outlet (1200 Watts) and the other 2 lights in another outlet(1200 watts) in the same room without it tripping and then run the AC/fans to another room(1100 watts + whatever the fan/scrubber wattage is)? If im not understanding correctly, then what about updating the amps to 20?

Thanks


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## supchaka (May 1, 2013)

It's likely that all the outlets in one or even more rooms can share one circuit.


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## spek9 (May 1, 2013)

tsboss1 said:


> Thank you for your reply. I just did a little search on google and read this:
> 
> "There is an allowance of 1800 watts per outlet for 15 Ampere 120 volt convenience outlets ans 2400 watts per outlet for 20 Ampere outlets."
> 
> ...


No. Each outlet does not equal 15A. The combined power draws on all the 'plugs' combined (including overhead lights) on a 120v 15A circuit make up a total.

So, for instance, in Ontario Canada, it is legal by Electrical Code to put up to 12 'fixtures' on each 15A 120v circuit. That means an entire living room and bedroom (no outlet can be 6' away from any one distance) plus lights can be on one circuit.

No circuit by code shall be run at more than 80% of capacity, and this is for safety reasons. So, for instance:

- 2 x 600w / 120v = 10A
- max capacity of this circuit is 12A (80% rule)
- startup on two 600w will be at *least* 1A each
- if you happen to be running your lamp(s) on a circuit your wife fires your 1500w hair dryer on, or a dehumidifier etc, your circuit trips

If you want to run all of this in one room, you need to literally take a tester (a lamp will do) to see what else is on the circuit. What you want here is two dedicated (or known very unused) circuits so you get clean power with no risk of a kettle, hair dryer or vaccuum tripping your cycle when you're not home. Nor do you want to run an extension on a circuit that is already overwhelmed with less-than-adequate cabling.

I'm drunk and high, but am I making sense?

-spek


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## tsboss1 (May 1, 2013)

spek9 said:


> No. Each outlet does not equal 15A. The combined power draws on all the 'plugs' combined (including overhead lights) on a 120v 15A circuit make up a total.
> 
> So, for instance, in Ontario Canada, it is legal by Electrical Code to put up to 12 'fixtures' on each 15A 120v circuit. That means an entire living room and bedroom (no outlet can be 6' away from any one distance) plus lights can be on one circuit.
> 
> ...


lol I think that makes sense. Thank you


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## ILoveYouSweetLeaf (May 1, 2013)

I want to use a Kill a Watt energy usage meter to determine how much my digital ballast is really drawing.
http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4400-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367461702&sr=8-1&keywords=kill+a+watt
will the sudden energy draw of a ballast fry this device?


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## legallyflying (May 3, 2013)

It won't fry the device. It's rated for 15 amps. 

You can save your money and google the amperage of your ballast and multiply it times your voltage...Tadah. Now you have your watts and you can then figure out kilowatts by simple multiplication 

They draw roughly 7-8% more than the bulbs rating. So 1k ballast is drawing around 1070 watts.


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## 4betshove (May 5, 2013)

I saw a great article written on one of the grow forums. It really broke down stuff for noobs. anybody know of which article im referring?


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## legallyflying (May 5, 2013)

This one time, on this website, there was like some really cool information.


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## Gs3000 (May 5, 2013)

Hi,

I need help adding cords to my T5 fixtures. The I-Beam HO T5 has 4 wires red, white, green and black. My cord has 3 wires black, white and green. How do I pair the wires? I have two of these T5 fixtures which I will use 54 watt HO bulbs. Each fixture holds four of these HO bulbs. Will I need to do anything special to run both of these plugged into a surge protector in my garage?

Thanks in advance for the help!

View attachment 2644506 View attachment 2644507


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## spek9 (May 6, 2013)

Gs3000 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I need help adding cords to my T5 fixtures. The I-Beam HO T5 has 4 wires red, white, green and black. My cord has 3 wires black, white and green. How do I pair the wires? I have two of these T5 fixtures which I will use 54 watt HO bulbs. Each fixture holds four of these HO bulbs. Will I need to do anything special to run both of these plugged into a surge protector in my garage?
> 
> ...



Please refer to the wiring diagram on the unit (or take a pic and post it), but usually the red is for if you wire to 240v. For 120v, *usually* you'd marrette the red and black together and connect it to the black of the feed wire, match white to white and green to green/or bare. I personally would wire them separately (as opposed to connecting both to a single feed), in case you want to separate them on different cycles or areas etc.

Again, not all of these are the same, so verify this against the documentation.


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## Jimdamick (May 6, 2013)

It looks like on the label it states that the fixture is either 120 volts or 277 volts.(You will not have 277 volts in a residence). If that is the case, cap the red wire(277v) and use the black wire. Splice that to your cord and you are ok.


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## Gs3000 (May 6, 2013)

Hey Spek9 and Jimdamick,

Thanks for your help. I ended up joining the red and black wires to the black wire of the power cord and connected the white to the white and green to the green. When I left the red out it didn't work. But when I left the red out I only had one tube in. Not sure if that mattered. But is woking now. Now I guess I need to return the 54 watts 4100k bulbs for 54 watts 6500k and 2700k bulbs.


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## Ben123456733 (May 7, 2013)

Hey, I was curious about if I will be needing anything special electrical wise for my grow.
I will have 6 x 600w lights going plus fans etc.


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## legallyflying (May 7, 2013)

^ your going to need at least 2 circuits if your running 120


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## 4betshove (May 7, 2013)

How do i figure out the amount of electricity I'm capable of using in total and per socket or in each room?


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## legallyflying (May 8, 2013)

the principle equation is this: watt= volts x amps You can change the equation around to fit your needs. like say "hey I am runnning 4000 watts, how many amps is that? watt/volts = amps soo 4000/120= 33.3 amps.

Typical residential houses in the US are run with 14 gauge wire on 15 amp circuit breakers. Sometimes 20 amp breakers. The most you want to run on a single circuit is about 18 amps. When you exceed the amp rating of the wire in the walls, it gets hot, and well, you can probably figure out the rest. 

A single outlet (meaning the plugs themselves) can handle about 20 amps... but that is really kind of pushing it. 

You need to plug stuff in on different outlets and flip the breaker to find which outlets are connected to the same circuit. 

A handy trick if your the only one around and the breaker box is on another level is to plug in some noisy stuff (I prefer my shop vac on one outlet and my radio on another) and flip breakers till they shut off.


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## 4betshove (May 8, 2013)

aint the numbers on the switches in the circuit breaker supposed to tell me how much or something? thanks for the reply btw


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## spek9 (May 8, 2013)

4betshove said:


> aint the numbers on the switches in the circuit breaker supposed to tell me how much or something? thanks for the reply btw


They do, yes... but that number is cumulative. So, lets say you have two 600w bulbs running on one 15A circuit... that's ~10A out of 15A in use right off the bat. A circuit is always rated at 80% of its capacity (if it operates at more than that for an extended period, the breaker will overheat and trip). So now you're already up to 10A out of a theoretical maximum of 12A. Now, say this circuit is also wired to four 100W incandescent room bulbs, you're at 13.3A. Also note that in (Ontario) Canada, the maximum number of outlets and lights connected to a single 15A circuit is 12, so there is a good possibility that something else will be connected, somewhere.

If at all possible, you'll want to try to put each light on its own circuit, then spread your fans et-al around across all three. If you must put two 600W on one circuit, find the least-used circuit in the area to put them on, then put the other one on a separate circuit. Three 600W bulbs will trip a 15A breaker for certain (and if it doesn't, the wiring will heat up to the point that it will be a major fire hazard.

Also note that you do NOT want your lights on circuit that also connects to the bathroom or kitchen. In these areas, there are often high-wattage pieces of equipment used (hair-dryers, kettles etc) and you don't want the wife tripping the breaker each time she boils water or dries her hair (bad for the bulb, plants, and she'll likely get pissed off if it happens repeatedly). 

-spek


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## legallyflying (May 8, 2013)

True that about the kitchen. I was recently rewiring my rental house. God, is that fun. Anyways I was wondering why kitchen always run 12 gauge on 20 amp breakers. My toaster alone pulls 7 amps!! 

I should put some plant under it. Lol


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## spek9 (May 9, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> True that about the kitchen. I was recently rewiring my rental house. God, is that fun. Anyways I was wondering why kitchen always run 12 gauge on 20 amp breakers. My toaster alone pulls 7 amps!!
> 
> I should put some plant under it. Lol


LOL!

To be honest, I personally would never run a 20A with anything higher than a 12 gauge, and in fact, I'd always use a different colour (usually yellow) for any 20A circuits so they are easily identified.

For the kitchen, the requirements are even more stringent... each circuit connects to only half of each outlet (along the counter top). This is so if you are growing under your toaster connected to the top socket in an outlet, the bottom outlet is on another circuit entirely so you can actually veg with one toaster and flower with the other, all connected to the same physical outlet 

-spek


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## contraptionated (May 9, 2013)

bricktown73 said:


> This doesn't really apply to AC current for your project. In theory you would be wiring this in series, just wire the black to the black, white to the white, and if there is a green or just naked wire: green/naked to green/naked. And that is it.


Nope!!! The sockets are not wired in series. They are wired in parallel. You would only wire medium base (or mogul base ) sockets in series if the voltage being applied to the lighting circuit was much higher than the voltage rating of the lamp. For example: when you see 2 incandescent medium base 120 volt/ 100 watt light bulbs wired in series with a 277volt circuit in a temporary construction lighting scenario ( which I've done a 1000 times). The light burns a bit hotter and the bulb burns out a little faster because the voltage is still a bit too high, but it works for temp lighting. Similar scenarios can be found in subway tunnels under construction ( there will be 5 bulbs wired in series in that case). If you wired any amount of standard 120 volt CFl bulb sockets in series on a 120 volt circuit it just wouldn't work or you would most probably fry them due to a high current spike to make up for the amount of reduced voltage in your misplaced series circuit. What I find strange about your advice is that this was the very first question you answered on this extremely long thread ( and a very simple one mind you, I'm talking first week on the job apprentice knowledge) and you failed epically. Sorry, bad electrical advice can cause real fires so I hope you understand the flame.


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## MrFowlio (May 16, 2013)

Hi There everyone

It's my first real grow and I'm totally stuck.
I have vegged my babies under CFL's for awhile so I went out and bought a 400W HPS bulb, ballast, ignighter and capacitor and wire of coarse.
My ballast has 5 input/output terminals, the ignighter has 3 and the capacitor has 2, the light socket has 2 and they are unmarked, so assuming here that the terminals on the socket don't matter much. I have wired the components like the diagram below says so but when I turn on my 220V plug, the ballast/transformer just makes a noise and my bulb stays off. I also don't have any of the white and black or marked wires, I had to supply all of my own. I might have the ports wrong or something? PLEASE HELP.... I included some close up images of the ballast and the ignighter too. hope it helps....

I would love any advice with regards to wiring this thing.
Fowlio.


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## MrFowlio (May 16, 2013)

Here is a pic of the wiring, the RED big wire on the right in the picture is the wire leading to the light socket and the WHITE big one on the right leads to the power, hope it helps :}


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## ProdigalSun (May 16, 2013)

My trailer has a 100 amp main. If the room is on, the laundry has to wait because it will shut down the whole house. Thats not so bad, I run my lights at night. Problem is, I want to add a couple lights and fans in the future, and it's pretty obvious that the house doesn't have the capacity for it. 

Is there a way to get more power than I have available currently?


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## legallyflying (May 16, 2013)

You have to install a larger service panel. Not to be a dick, but since your asking that question it is beyond your level of experience. 

However, I have an 18k room that draws 95 amps total with everything running. (10 amp dehu) 

That space is 27 x 27 x 8. Much larger than a trailer. You can't possibly be getting close to that total amp draw. Not even half. Your likely just popping a single circuit.


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## ProdigalSun (May 16, 2013)

I know enough about things to know you aren't being a dick, no worries. 

It's the main that keeps popping.


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## ProdigalSun (May 16, 2013)

I know the dryer is on 2, 20 amp breakers. The room is a 400w hps, a 525w. flouro, a half dozen computer fans, a 500cfm charcoal fan, and 3, 12" fans. I would like to swap the floro for a 400mh, and go to a pair of 600hps, and add a couple more inline ~500cfm fans. Will the trailer handle it?


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## wheels619 (May 16, 2013)

ProdigalSun said:


> I know the dryer is on 2, 20 amp breakers. The room is a 400w hps, a 525w. flouro, a half dozen computer fans, a 500cfm charcoal fan, and 3, 12" fans. I would like to swap the floro for a 400mh, and go to a pair of 600hps, and add a couple more inline ~500cfm fans. Will the trailer handle it?


yes. as long as the wiring isnt shotty you should be able to pull about4 k in power total. anymore and i wouldnt risk it. also you will probably need an electrician to pull in a string of 220 to keep everything safe fro overload. i wouldnt risk putting more than you already have thru the existing wiring. fire hazard if its an older trailer and everything isnt up to code.


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## wheels619 (May 16, 2013)

ProdigalSun said:


> I know the dryer is on 2, 20 amp breakers. The room is a 400w hps, a 525w. flouro, a half dozen computer fans, a 500cfm charcoal fan, and 3, 12" fans. I would like to swap the floro for a 400mh, and go to a pair of 600hps, and add a couple more inline ~500cfm fans. Will the trailer handle it?


and by 12 inch fans you mean wall or floor fans right?


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## ProdigalSun (May 16, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> and by 12 inch fans you mean wall or floor fans right?


More of a desk fan.


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## legallyflying (May 16, 2013)

Careful you don't pull too much juice to your trailer. It may attract tornadoes. If your not in a trailer park your probably safe though. 

Others can confirm but it really sounds like you need to replace that main 100 breaker. No way it should be popping. They do wear out and can get trigger happy


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## olimmilo (May 17, 2013)

hello cannabros i'm having a problem, i went to plug in my 1ooo watt mh light and it would not fully turn on, it only had a little blue light close to the socket. it was on for awhile and nothing. whats going on any help plz.


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## MrFowlio (May 17, 2013)

You need to try and supply more info so that people can reply accurately :} pics, ballast type, power input, ratings etc


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## starlight13 (May 26, 2013)

I would like to start off by thanking the people who take the time out of their lives to help the folks such as myself on this and other forums, as I have learned a lot from reading in these boards and this is my first post and first project and im excited to get started!! 

I would like to tackle the electrical side my new room builds so we can plan around the available resources, be safe and on code. I would like to try and do my own install of a whatever size subpanel is necessary for my projects which I estimated at around 80A. We have a good size budget and do not wanna cut any corners but we want to work efficiently without the waste of resources if I can get the proper permits do it myself.

I have two separate houses and rooms to do the electrical work on and once i get the pertinent photos I will post them on separate threads. Here is the first room/house and will post next room/house in another thread. 

The room is almost halved and divided at the heater/waterheater in two sections which i was planing on dividing with drywall if necessary, the larger side of 16X12X8 for flowering/veg and 16x7x8 for Moms/clones. The main electrical box with a 150A rating is attached outside of the same basement room right outside the window in the photo straight across the heater. There appears to be two empty pole breaker switches at the bottom slots of the box. There is also water and drain on the adjacent wall of the fusebox by the water/heater units.

We just bought a current culture UC6XXL13 that we can expand up to 10 units but we will plan around six for this room for now and expand as much as the space and electrical allows according to your recommendations without trying to replace main breaker box etc. I would like to use a chiller and inline fans instead of an ac to cool the room/lights if possible. I can even use the existing heater power/outlet and ducting to whatever means necessary and use the heater's powersource since we wont be using the heater over the summer.

We have yet decided on vertical/tree or scrog/hortizontal set up, which ever one will work best to maximize plant yield due to legal limits and cooling requirements. I would like to run 6-10 1000w or 600w HPS bulbs in the flower room depending on what I can get away with in the electrical department. 


My questions would be, if you had this room what would you do with it with my current setup, electrical and a very forgiving budget $15,000-$20,000. If you could walk me through the steps and materials that I will need to complete the electrical job and get started on my journey and writing first journal on the rollitup!!! 

I have ordered the following seed collection to start my plants as soon as the room is ready. HERO Blue Monster Holk and Diesel Girl, PYRAMID Tutankhamon, Kaliman Nitro X and Cheese #1, Grandady Purp OG Kush and kEns Kush and CBD Crew Skunk Haze. I hope that will be a good start.

Please pardon if I missed any information on here im running back and forth from my properties trying to get things cleaned up and ready to go, please ask me anything if you need any other information about the set up. Thanks a million!


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## contraptionated (May 26, 2013)

First and foremost... Do you have a fluke tester? You should get the fluke that has a u-shaped recess at the top. Forgot what model number it is. Ill post that in a few minutes. You need that to determine how high of a current demand is on your panel gut if a certain amount of appliances that are likely to be on all at the same time would demand. For example, there is probably an extremely small chance that everything that is being fed by the 150amp/220V single-phase(2-pole) main breaker will ever be on at the same time, but there is a chance that you could have the cooktop going at the same time as the dryer and various 220 V air conditioning equipment. That would require a lot of current. You have a nice 150 amp main but make sure the wire that feeds the meter is capable of supplying that much current on each phase ( a and b). The allowable capacity is 120 amps on each phase bus ( there are 2 of them ) of your panel. According to Table 310.17 (75 degree Celsius column) of the NEC your utility overhead service lateral ( wires coming from the utility) would need to be #4 AWG if copper ( which is almost never the case, they almost always use aluminum wire) and #3 aluminum would do close to that much (115 amps for each phase )and #2 aluminum would be the minimum size overhead service lateral to feed that panel with that 150 amp main breaker . The reason why I want you to make sure the utility is supplying a service lateral large enough is because it is very common for a main breaker to be sized larger than what the utility wire at the service point ( point where utility splices to the wire coming from your 2" rigid service mast ( the mast is attached to the hub at the top of the meter). It's not always easy to identify the size of wire being supplied by the utility because you need to look up top at the top of your mast to do that and need experience in identifying the different aluminum wire gauges by eye. Get an electrician friend to do that for you in person. Chances are the sun has already obscured any legible markings that could have been on the wire ( even if you grab an extension ladder and put it on the side of your house to observe the three splices up top it's not always easy to tell). If you have #2 aluminum you could use that panel to its full .8 x 150A =120A per phase capacity but chances are you may not need that much and the current carrying capacity of what is likely to be an undersized service lateral to main breaker relationship will be ok for your calculated load.That load will be the existing max likely load simultaneously tapping the bus plus all the garden appliances that are likely to be on all at the same time. Let me come back in a few minutes to tell you 1.) Which Fluke to buy [its about 100bucks, stay tuned for that] 2.) How to use that tester to calculate your existing load plus the new loads you intend to add. These are the first 2 steps we will take and afterward we will try to confirm the size of the service lateral.Lets not also forget that we need to make sure you put just about the same amount of "likely to be simultaneously on at the same time" appliance loads on each phase bus ( a and b) or in other words we need to balance the load between phases in such a way that it will be balanced not only in theory but also in real life when all of those simultaneous loads are on. One step at a time and we will get there...


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## contraptionated (May 26, 2013)

The tester you need is the Fluke T5-600. I found it for 90 plus shipping when I keyword searched. You get that tester and a pair of Klein lineman pliers and ill have you doing electrical troubleshooting side jobs by the time you're done wiring up your place. I also can help you design a system that will get you at least .73 gpw (og or sour strains)on a grand scale grow ( meaning 7200 watts of flowering or more) a la dwc with zero media. That means no rock wool or hydroton in flowering or veg stage, absolute water culture with nothing in between and definitely no net pots neccessary. No Sheetrock neccessary for your walls either. Also no need to divert from your current culture system. The current culture concept works so well with no media and nothing but two double layered disks of 3/4" Mylar coated white polystyrene foam as a plant holding collar. Lets get these rooms built. Everyone on RIU!!! Lets help this guy. He's willing to go all out with a large space. All RIU experts have a chance to use this guys space as the ultimate canvas . I'm excited! P.S Check to make sure you have a #6 awg copper or # 8 awg main water grounding conductor attached between the neutral bar of the main panel and a ground clamp attached to your water main before the main water valve. Sometimes the connection goes between the water main ( before the valve) and a lug on the panel enclosure and that's ok so long as there is a bonding (grounding conductor) jumper between the enclosure and the neutral bar. That factory installed panel to neutral bar jumper is sometimes in the form of a flat bus.The bonding jumper between the panel enclosure and neutral bar is usually done at the factory. Always good to confirm that your house panel main has a continuos bonding jumper between the water main and the neutral bar ( you will use the fluke to test for that continuity and you will also be able to read how many ohms of resistance is between the water ground clamp and the neutral bar (no more than 25 ohms resistance on the readout when testing for continuity with the red and black leads of the tester . If you read higher that means you probably have a loose water grounding clamp either where the clamp jaw meets the water pipe or the screw that holds the copper lug[which in turn connects the copper grounding conductor to the clamp] on the clamp is loose. You also want a ground rod buried about 8 feet down into your basement with an attached rod clamp squeezing down on at least a #8 awg (if insulated) or #6 awg (if bare copper) ran to the neutral bar or panel enclosure if the neutral is already bonded to the panel enclosure. There are other aspects of bonding pertaining to the connection between the meter and the panel (before the main breaker) but we'll confirm that side of your bonding later. One step at a time...


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## starlight13 (May 26, 2013)

Thank you so much for the detailed reply i found the exact tester and pliers you wrote about online. I can go pick up the tools right down the street from the Homedepot/Lowes if they have them in stock in denver and get the information you requested up quicker.


> *
> 
> I also can help you design a system that will get you at least .73 gpw (og or sour strains)on a grand scale grow ( meaning 7200 watts of flowering or more) a la dwc with zero media. That means no rock wool or hydroton in flowering or veg stage, absolute water culture with nothing in between and definitely no net pots neccessary. No Sheetrock neccessary for your walls either.​
> 
> ...


Im really interested in hearing about this method that you spoke of with no net pots as I was about to order 50 or so of the 8" lid pots for the other spot which I can have 24 plants flowering and whatever lighting the service can support. I also ordered 20 Eye Hortilux 1000w super hps and im looking at the ballasts that I should get and I really like the idea of a timer in the ballast such as Solistek matrix or Digital sun programmable ballast but im not sure the timer and other features outweigh the benefits on my first run and some basic digital ballast. I would love to buy 10-15 if I can find the right price and be able to use that power in the rooms but no seller that I have contacted so far has the quantities of the matrix ballast in stock. I did however find the solistek regular dimmable ballast for $170-180.


> *
> 
> The current culture concept works so well with no media and nothing but two double layered disks of 3/4" Mylar coated white polystyrene foam as a plant holding collar​
> 
> ...


Please tell me about this method as i have been reading a bit about the use of "styrofoam" for medium. I did get a bunch of rapid rooters that I just received. 

I have been trying to prepare for handling the seed coming from over seas and wanna make sure I dont stress the plants at all and if possible would love to seed/veg/flower in the system or in the same conditions outside of the loop to facilitate the transfer. Any input is greatly welcomed.


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## contraptionated (May 26, 2013)

I am in the process of writing a very detailed reply to answer these questions. Stay tuned...


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## contraptionated (May 26, 2013)

Here is how I go about not using media throughout veg or flowering ( I only use peat pellets[rapid rooter will do just fine as well] for starting the seedlings after they germinate). Let me rewind a little and give you a very successful process sequence. 1.) create a germination station with a humidome with the black rectangular tray, a large metal sauce pot( not too large because it has to fit inside the dome) a small opaque Tupperware bowl that fits inside the water filled metal sauce pot ( put a 50 watt aquarium heater in the sauce pot , please no larger than 50 watt on that aquarium heater) and put a seedling heat mat under the sauce pot. So far we have a metal sauce pot half full of water with a 50 watt submersible heater and a seedling heat mat ( non submersible of course ) in between the black tray and the bottom of the water filled sauce pot. The small round Tupperware is floating on top of the water and you will use the temperature probe from a 50 dollar Ranco temperature controller to sense the temperature of the wet paper towel(Ranco sensor is placed in the Tupperware on top of the wet paper towel that holds the seeds, do not put the Ranco sensor in the water that is contained in the metal sauce pot) with the seeds that were placed in the opaque Tupperware bowl that is floating in the sauce pot. The Ranco temperature sensor wire (and the cord for the heat mat and submersible 50 watt heater) will pass through one of the adjustable vent dials of the humid ome. After that's done ( remember you need to wire the heat mat and submersible heater to turn on and off from the Ranco temperature controller ( its just a fancy thermostat) cover it all up with some 3/4" Polyshield (white polystyrene foam board with reflective Mylar coating) in such a way to afford easy access. Keep the Ranco temp controller itself out of the humidome (of course). Now you will have the best little germination machine that will work in a cold environment if need be. If you understand how the germination station works , please give confirmation and I will proceed to step 2.) 20 gallon rubbermaid (brute or roughneck) dwc/bubbleponic seedling station. The rapid rooters (but most preferably peat pellets )are used here to root the germinated seedlings.


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## starlight13 (May 26, 2013)

I did get a germination station for the seeds. I was also taking a look at the totes at home depot to build my own UCDWC or Variation of it with a drip ring since it is not much work. Let me know about your ideas and thank you.


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## contraptionated (May 26, 2013)

Step 2.) Rubbermaid 20 gallon dwc/bubbleponic seedling rooter. Acquire these things: Danner Pondmaster AP100 diaphragm air pump. An 8.5" round aluminum oxide airstone (this airstone is one of a kind. Only the round one of this diameter is made of non-dissolvable super strong aluminum oxide (totally safe by the way, and easy to clean). Can be had through drsfostersmith dot com. 1-4'x8' sheet of 3/4" Mylar coated white polystyrene foam insulation board from home deeps. 1-100 watt submersible aquarium heater (if neccessary). 1 foot of weighted 3/8" airline tubing.A 3/8"barb x 1/2" mpt fitting (preferably pvc sch.40 white ). A 1/2" fpt x 1/2" slip fitting (sch.40 pvc). 2 feet of 1/2" pvc pipe. A 1/2" pvc ball valve (slip x slip). A 90 degree 1/2" pvc elbow (slip x fpt). A 1/2" mpt x 1/2" barb adapter. Put all the pvc parts together in the order I stated them in the list. Attach 6" of the weighted tubing to the 3/8" barb connector on the airstone to make a non kinkable flexible 90 degree bend for the stem that was put together from the list of pvc parts ( that were put together in order ). Attach a 1/2" hose to the top of the stem that comes out of the pail and then attach the 1/2" air hose for the air stone to 3/4"pvc manifold that has 12 1/2" outlets for 12 airstones. For now you use only one for the rooter . Close off all the others except for one that stays open just enough to discharge a 1/2" hose into a half full 5 gallon bucket so you can bleed the excess air from the AP 100 air pump( if you send the full output of the pump through one airstone , you will break the stone ). This bleeding is temporary until you supplement your current culture system with these exact same round airstones . For now you will adjust the 1/2" pvc valve at the top of the pvc airstone stem ,which travels down the water column of the bubble rooter , so you get the bubbles popping above the level of the water surface in the rubbermaid 20 gallon . Use 2 layers of 3/4" poly to hold peat pellets ( cut holes in this new Polyshield double layer garbage pail "cap" and make the holes snug around the seed containing peat pellets). Make sure 3/8" of the peat pellet bottom protrudes downward from the Polyshield cap and keep the water level 4" away from the peat pellet bottom. So far we have a round indestructible airstone agitating the water surface and popping bubbles toward the bottom of the peat pellet to keep it moist.Dont forget the double layer of foam that holds the peat pellet in place and blocks light from hitting the water surface. Now you need level control and auto topoff. My level control system is not used or known by any other human being. It is very, very far and away superior to all other means of level control ( the better your level control in dwc/ bubbleponics the better your yield will be. If you understood step 2 please confirm and I will proceed to Step 3.) The worlds best level control and auto top off system ( It is and I don't have to be humble about that claim because it is 100% reliable and it cannot be bought, it can only be built) I have kept it secret for close to a decade and I will reveal it now. Without it you will never achieve reliable automation of evaporation top-off which is the most commonly overlooked and ALWAYS DONE WRONG part of a hydro system. It can only be done properly with the device known as the World Magnetics PSF103. If you choose to not use this for your auto top off , I laugh and you lose. Please confirm understanding of Step 2 and I will proceed.


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## contraptionated (May 26, 2013)

P.S. No drip rings ever. That is for people who use lesser methods that don't produce as well in dwc systems. I only approve of media for Heaths Flooded Tube Vertical. The methods I use for veg and flower are without grow media for a few different reasons. I have done every method imaginable and when the world ran out of methods I had made all different possible combinations of known methods just to be sure that MEDIA IS A HINDRANCE IN DWC AND ALL OTHER FORMS OF HYDROPONIC sorry for yelling , except for Heaths Flooded Tube Vertical. Only that method absolutely needs clay pebbles and a rooting cube in flowering. I will get to how you will be able to achieve nirvana in your ucdwc modified system with no media. It will all make sense once it is fully explained. You have the canvas to achieve greatness. I may be the only one who can make you achieve that greatness from A to Z. You need not learn from mistakes because I made all the possible mistakes in the past. I purged myself of the phenomenon known as errors. Please benefit from my experience.The word hydroponic literally translates to waterwork not pebblework or woolwork so forget the drip rings. I ditched those a long time ago.


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## legallyflying (May 27, 2013)

Ummm...got arrogance? If you want to blather on and on about your world exclusive DWC method that nobody has and nobody can ever think to achieve...perhaps start another thread. 

You started dialoging in the electrical question thread


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## contraptionated (May 27, 2013)

I knew it was misplaced (but not misinformation) and I will move the info elsewhere . Thank you legallyflying for correcting me


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## contraptionated (May 27, 2013)

I knew it was misplaced (but not misinformation) and I will move the info elsewhere . Thank you legallyflying for correcting me  Although the level sensor I use is sorely needed because it doesn't get locked into position the way a standard float switch will.


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## starlight13 (May 27, 2013)

I would prefer to stick to the basics and the proven methods while I work on new techniques as I gradually apply what I learn to grow and grow more gardens. I plan on growing my own food for my family and friends and doing an outdoor garden as soon we are up and running with the electricity to run the hydro set up so we will leave the grow part out of this topic until the subpanel has been set up and I can start my 1st journal.


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## contraptionated (May 27, 2013)

All good. It is best for you to run through the basics so that you can appreciate the advanced techniques all the more if the time comes that you choose to take the grow beyond the outer limits. You seem to understand why it is important to get to know your incoming utility service and house panel. If you have any questions on that, let me know . You seem more than capable of wielding the Fluke T5-600 to measure all the calculated loads and I'm sure you will be able to confirm if the 150A 2-pole main breaker will be able to serve your intended future needs. All the best!


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## Impman (May 27, 2013)

whats with all the exposed wire, mr. electrician? i dunno , that looks pretty shady for a 'experienced electrician'.


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## wheels619 (May 27, 2013)

Impman said:


> whats with all the exposed wire, mr. electrician? i dunno , that looks pretty shady for a 'experienced electrician'.


that picture your speaking of is something im guessing you have no idea about. that picture is perfect. nothing wrong with the wiring at all. its all cleaned and tucked nice.


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## contraptionated (May 27, 2013)

Impman said:


> whats with all the exposed wire, mr. electrician? i dunno , that looks pretty shady for a 'experienced electrician'.


What exposed wire are you referring to? Can you be more specific? I don't remember telling anybody to run any exposed wire unless it was for the main bonding (grounding). I only remember mentioning how to identify the size of the exposed overhead service lateral (supplied by the utility ) and the exposed #6 awg main water grounding conductor (#6 is allowed to be run bare and exposed for that particular size water main bonding conductor and the same size can be run bare and exposed for the grounding rod that is bonded to the same neutral before the main breaker). So, "Mr. I Dunno What The Heck I Am Talking About" why don't you learn to be more humble when you ask about something that you have no idea of. Or you could have just looked up Article 250 of the NEC and spared us your foolishness. Man, some people around here should just learn to ask me to elaborate before they make them selves look stupid. A MAIN GROUNDING CONDUCTOR IS NOT A LIVE WIRE AND THAT IS WHY IT CAN BE RUN EXPOSED SO LONG AS IT IS SUPPORTED IN A WORKMANLIKE MANNER TO THE BUILDING STRUCTURE IN AS SHORT OF A RUN AS POSSIBLE sorry for yelling, you made me do it. Got it???


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## wheels619 (May 27, 2013)

contraptionated said:


> What exposed wire are you referring to? Can you be more specific? I don't remember telling anybody to run any exposed wire unless it was for the main bonding (grounding). I only remember mentioning how to identify the size of the exposed overhead service lateral (supplied by the utility ) and the exposed #6 awg main water grounding conductor (#6 is allowed to be run bare and exposed for that particular size water main bonding conductor and the same size can be run bare and exposed for the grounding rod that is bonded to the same neutral before the main breaker). So, "Mr. I Dunno What The Heck I Am Talking About" why don't you learn to be more humble when you ask about something that you have no idea of. Or you could have just looked up Article 250 of the NEC and spared us your foolishness. Man, some people around here should just learn to ask me to elaborate before they make them selves look stupid. A MAIN GROUNDING CONDUCTOR IS NOT A LIVE WIRE AND THAT IS WHY IT CAN BE RUN EXPOSED SO LONG AS IT IS SUPPORTED IN A WORKMANLIKE MANNER TO THE BUILDING STRUCTURE IN AS SHORT OF A RUN AS POSSIBLE sorry for yelling, you made me do it. Got it???


he is referring to the original posters pic.


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## contraptionated (May 27, 2013)

The original poster... From 4 years ago??If that's the case, I humbly apologize. Big misunderstanding.


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## legallyflying (May 27, 2013)

Hey they gang, I am wiring up a new control box for an 18k watt room. I have a couple questions that could use some answers/verification. The controller is supported by a 100 amp breaker 30 feet from the controller. 

1. I plan to run #4 thhn for the two hots and #6 for the ground. I am also going to run a neutral wire to the controller for a single set of 120 outlets. Can I run #6 or 8 for this? (240 draw is about 80 amps, 120 about 3)
The run is through 1.5" plastic conduit FYI

2. Each double gang 240 box is powered by #10 romex with 12 gauge ground. Please confirm that 12 ground is ok. 

3. I am at a loss about the ground and neutral bars in the control panel. Should they be joined by one of those heavy gauge copper wires that run between the neutral and ground bars? I believe the term is bonded. I was reading that auxiliary panels (my controller) do not need to be bonded? But that seems counterintuitive to me as when I install the neutral bar..it would be connected to ground without that wire. My controller panel only has one bar for ground\neutral right now. I have to purchase another. 

4. Thanks for help. I'll post a picture when I'm done with it. It's pretty sweet. 18 240 plugs with staggered start and a temperature cut off that will shut 12 of the lights off at 90 degrees and turn on after room gets to 78 (and a 12 minute safety delay) 

Total cost is about $250 for the panel. Retail is more than 1k! For something similar. DX hydro wanted $850


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## contraptionated (May 27, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> Hey they gang, I am wiring up a new control box for an 18k watt room. I have a couple questions that could use some answers/verification. The controller is supported by a 100 amp breaker 30 feet from the controller.
> 
> 1. I plan to run #4 thhn for the two hots and #6 for the ground. I am also going to run a neutral wire to the controller for a single set of 120 outlets. Can I run #6 or 8 for this? (240 draw is about 80 amps, 120 about 3)
> The run is through 1.5" plastic conduit FYI
> ...


If you really are running 18kw then me and you have much in common. I will answer all your questions tomorrow. After I answer your questions (to the exact Nth degree with the minimal amount of materials while staying up to code and very safe) please consider a level switch design ( that I will provide for you via pm) that can't not change your life. The level switch I speak of is the secret to my hydroponic success.


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## legallyflying (May 27, 2013)

Thanks man. In my bucket room (9k) I use a aqua hub DIY ebb and grow control bucket. I mounted the fill float switches on a sheet of plexiglass that I can raise and lower to modify the level of water in the buckets. I get about 1\4" variation in water height with the float switches which is plenty for me. 

The 18k room is a bare bulb Hempy bucket tree grow.


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## contraptionated (May 27, 2013)

You're very welcome. Let me ask you about the float switch you mentioned (fill switch.). Can it operate without any problem on a highly agitated water surface? Would a floating mega root ball interfere with its operation ?


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## contraptionated (May 27, 2013)

You're loaded to about 80% of the main with just the 18-1000 watt ballasts, but thats ok because we dont treat a sub panel like one big branch circuit( in the case of a branch circuit we would only load up to 80% of the breaker rating but this is not the case so your good with that main breaker, although you are still under 80% )1000 watt ballast draw about 1080-1100 watts. 1080 x 18 =18720 watts. Divide that by 120V to get 156 amps @ 120v or 78 amps per phase (a and b). The 2-pole 100A main breaker feeding the sub panel ( I'm assuming the main is 2-pole and the controller panel is a main lug fed 220V split- phase bus unless you tell me otherwise) can take the calculated load per phase of 78 amps a piece for the lights and the 3 amps per phase of 120 volt loads is also doable downstream of a 100 amp main ( with proper branch circuit overprotection for each circuit at the controller panel bus).Your #4 wire can only be protected by a breaker not exceeding 85 amps so you need to upsize the hot phase conductors to # 3 copper .The only time we upsize a breaker past the current carrying capacity of the conductors is when that overcurrent protection is for a specific dedicated piece of equipment listed as one device requiring separate over current protection and the allowance of sizing a breaker at 125% of the conductors it protects (that percentage is a common multiplier when dealing with the sizing of breakers protecting heavy duty motors) would not apply to a main supplying a power and lighting panel. To be code compliant you need #3 gauge copper wire for a and b phase, as per the 75 degree Celsius column of Table 310.16 . Your choice of #6 or 8 for the neutral is fine because you don't have much of a possible unbalance on the neutral because of almost no 120V loads. The grounding (green) conductor sizing is also fine. Just isolate the grounding (green) bar from the enclosure when you mount it and make sure to land the # 6 grounding (green) conductor between the neutral bar of the main panel and the grounding bar of the controller. The #10 Romex is more than enough. If the 240 box you speak of is for a 250V/15A receptacle for each 1000 watt ballast to be plugged into , then they could have been supplied with #12 (or #14 Romex if your municipality allows #14 for 15 amp branch circuits)Romex with # 14 equipment grounding conductors so you' re good there too. Don't make any bond between the grounding (green) bar and the neutral (ground bar). It's a sub panel and not only do you not need it, you are not supposed to. Also, take note of the difference in terms (ground conductor is a neutral and a grounding conductor is the green).


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## oakley1984 (May 29, 2013)

contraptionated said:


> You're loaded to about 80% of the main with just the 18-1000 watt ballasts, but thats ok because we dont treat a sub panel like one big branch circuit( in the case of a branch circuit we would only load up to 80% of the breaker rating but this is not the case so your good with that main breaker, although you are still under 80% )1000 watt ballast draw about 1080-1100 watts. 1080 x 18 =18720 watts. Divide that by 120V to get 156 amps @ 120v or 78 amps per phase (a and b). The 2-pole 100A main breaker feeding the sub panel ( I'm assuming the main is 2-pole and the controller panel is a main lug fed 220V split- phase bus unless you tell me otherwise) can take the calculated load per phase of 78 amps a piece for the lights and the 3 amps per phase of 120 volt loads is also doable downstream of a 100 amp main ( with proper branch circuit overprotection for each circuit at the controller panel bus).Your #4 wire can only be protected by a breaker not exceeding 85 amps so you need to upsize the hot phase conductors to # 3 copper .The only time we upsize a breaker past the current carrying capacity of the conductors is when that overcurrent protection is for a specific dedicated piece of equipment listed as one device requiring separate over current protection and the allowance of sizing a breaker at 125% of the conductors it protects (that percentage is a common multiplier when dealing with the sizing of breakers protecting heavy duty motors) would not apply to a main supplying a power and lighting panel. To be code compliant you need #3 gauge copper wire for a and b phase, as per the 75 degree Celsius column of Table 310.16 . Your choice of #6 or 8 for the neutral is fine because you don't have much of a possible unbalance on the neutral because of almost no 120V loads. The grounding (green) conductor sizing is also fine. Just isolate the grounding (green) bar from the enclosure when you mount it and make sure to land the # 6 grounding (green) conductor between the neutral bar of the main panel and the grounding bar of the controller. The #10 Romex is more than enough. If the 240 box you speak of is for a 250V/15A receptacle for each 1000 watt ballast to be plugged into , then they could have been supplied with #12 (or #14 Romex if your municipality allows #14 for 15 amp branch circuits)Romex with # 14 equipment grounding conductors so you' re good there too. Don't make any bond between the grounding (green) bar and the neutral (ground bar). It's a sub panel and not only do you not need it, you are not supposed to. Also, take note of the difference in terms (ground conductor is a neutral and a grounding conductor is the green).


every calculated value in this statement is wrong lol.


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## 7eyegrasser (May 29, 2013)

Hi, i need to wire up a TopTronic TMDT2 24Hour timer switch so i can run my lights 12/12 is this possible and how do i wire it?

Thanks


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## contraptionated (May 29, 2013)

oakley1984 said:


> every calculated value in this statement is wrong lol.


If its wrong you need to prove it. You can't just say it is incorrect. You probably think its wrong because you don't know that you need to use the 75 degree column of table 310.16 because the circuit breaker can only be rated up to the 75 degree column. The only thing I was wrong about was the ballast load because I didn't use a calculator ( I did it quick off the top of my head) . You are only right about that. The actual ballast load is about 19800 watts. I only stand corrected on that , but that is all the more reason to upsize the wire from #4 to #3. So, my advice to use that size wire is still correct. I'm humble enough to admit when I'm wrong (you were right about the ballast load calc but thats it) but next time you correct someone you bear the burden of doing the calculation and giving the correct answer . Just saying I'm wrong is not enough.


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## contraptionated (May 29, 2013)

oakley1984 said:


> every calculated value in this statement is wrong lol.


P.S. I'm waiting and every wire ampacity value ( including #4 only being good for 85 amps) comes directly from the NEC. What reference manual do you base your statement on??My equipment (wire, grounding requirements) suggestions are very much correct, so from what I remember ,legallyflying asked me about the wire size and grounding and that was correct yet you only pointed out a minor mathematical error in how I got there but couldn't point out whether or not I was correct in answering the 4 questions he(or she) asked. When I see a partial error in someone's post I have enough class to first point out what was done correctly (in this case the answers to all 4 questions are correct) and then point out minor errors later. First give credit where its due, then point out the mistakes (which in this case did not steer legallyflying wrong because the end results were all correct answers) in where I was " thinking out loud".


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## legallyflying (May 29, 2013)

I will say that the recommendations you gave are directly inline with what I heard on other forums. Need to use #3 thhn. 

So my grounding bar on my controller panel is not bonded to the box then? 
There seems to be a screw in the binding bar that serves to bind it with the panel. 

Can you confirm that the ground and neutral bars are essentially the same in my controller panel? I mean I will have bare copper grounding wire coming from the grounding/neutral bar in my main panel going to the grounding bar and a #10 thhn wire going from the neutral/grounding bar in my main panel going to the neutral bar in my controller panel. 

So since both bars in my controller panel are connected to the neutral/grounding bars in my panel...can I just route grounds and neutral wires to either bar in the controller panel? 

Does this make sense? I'm just curious because in the main panel in my house, neutral and grounds go to the same bar. 
Is that because they are bonded? 

Almost done with the panel, just waiting on the delay relays from china 

Oh..btw, I have to use 10 gauge wire on y plugs because I'm using 30 amp double pole breakers.


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## contraptionated (May 29, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> I will say that the recommendations you gave are directly inline with what I heard on other forums. Need to use #3 thhn.
> 
> So my grounding bar on my controller panel is not bonded to the box then?
> There seems to be a screw in the binding bar that serves to bind it with the panel.
> ...


The separation between the grounding and neutral bar in the sub panel is done to prevent parallel pathways for short circuit current to travel through to earth ground. In the event if a short circuit or even a lightning strike the over current would be able to find the shortest path to earth by keeping them separate everywhere else except for the main panel. As for the 30 amp receptacles, I was under the impression that each 240 volt receptacle was for each individual lighting (1000 watt) ballast and that was why I suggested the possibility of them being supplied by 15 amp branch circuits. What appliances are you running that require 30 amp / 2-pole branch circuits? The only thing I could think of off the top of my head would be the possibility of a condenser unit. You're not using those 240V/30 amp receptacles for lighting...are you?


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## legallyflying (May 30, 2013)

The breakers for each pair of 240 receptacles are 30 amp. Why? because they were on sale. Yes, the total of the breakers in the control panel are more than 100 amps.. but whatever, I figure the 100 amp breaker in the main panel would pop before any real problems occurred. 

But back to my question... if the bars on my control panel are not connected together, does it matter where i connect the neutral and ground wires? Stated another way... DO all my grounds need to be connected to one bar and the other bar just have the neutral connections for my 120 circuit?

Thanks a bunch, appreciate your help.


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## contraptionated (May 30, 2013)

Yes. All your grounding (green) wires need to be on one bar that is mounted on plastic insulators so that it will not bond with the enclosure. All the ground (white) wires need to be on the other bar. Just interconnect the neutral bar with the neutral wire originating from the main panel and interconnect the grounding (green) bar with the green wire coming from the bonding lug of the main panel. The 30 amp breakers are totally wrong and are a fire hazard if used for 240V ballast receptacles. 1000w Lights cant be supplied by a 30 amp breaker unless there is a separate overcurrent protection downstream between the 30 amp breaker and the point where current is tapped for the primary of the ballast (usually a cartridge fuse contained in a 2-piece fuse holding socket).I can't sign off on that one.


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## legallyflying (May 30, 2013)

I have NEVER heard such a thing. Never. Each circuit is pulling 18 or 19 amps so why is a 30 amp breaker on the circuit incorrect? A 20 amp breaker would be popping all the time. 

Even store bought light controllers employ the same deal. I have an 8k watt control box and it says "wire to 40 amp breaker" on it. 

There is no internal fuses or anything at all in there, just a series of relays.


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## ogreb (May 30, 2013)

Putting in too high of breaker.
Let's say a 30 amp in a 15 amp slot.
Your breaker won't pop...your wiring will melt. Next thing you know...fire !

Amperage and correct wire gauge are imperative.


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## legallyflying (May 30, 2013)

Which is why I have #10 romex wiring from breaker to relay to each double gang receptacle. 

And I using the heavy duty 15 amp receptacles that are back wired and not run through the little metal connection tabs


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## legallyflying (May 30, 2013)

How could a ballast actually draw enough amps to hurt the receptacle..or wiring anyways? If there is a short then it will trip the breaker. My understanding was you need an actual live load to pull more amps? And they are all digital ballasts which careful modulate the current draw. Honestly, I just can't see where that is a fire hazard. 

The only thing that isn't rated for 30 amps is the receptacle. And honestly, when wired correctly have you ever seen a receptacle melt?


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## contraptionated (May 31, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> I have NEVER heard such a thing. Never. Each circuit is pulling 18 or 19 amps so why is a 30 amp breaker on the circuit incorrect? A 20 amp breaker would be popping all the time.
> 
> Even store bought light controllers employ the same deal. I have an 8k watt control box and it says "wire to 40 amp breaker" on it.
> 
> There is no internal fuses or anything at all in there, just a series of relays.


Its not easy to size a circuit for somebody when they don't tell you exactly what is plugged into it. What is it that you have drawing 19 amps? I even mentioned before that I had to assume you were plugging in a 1000 watt ballast. So now it sounds like you have much more than one 1000 watt ballast connected to each 240V line am I correct? You mentioned that its 240V and now I finally find out that its drawing 19 amps (on each pole of the breaker, am I correct?) so instead of assuming I'm a mind reader just tell me what you have connected to what and then I can size everything correctly? Also, a 30 amp line is common when the lighting is far away (think pole lighting located around an outdoor field) and the wire is up sized to prevent voltage drop. The over current (fuse in this case) is stepped down to 15 amps with a fuse holder at the base of the pole. I know you don't have a ball field in your basement but that is one of the few situations where a 30 amp line is used with a fuse holder in between. It was just an example and I would never want you to use those fuses that's why I suggest lower over current protection. So, for the love of all things holy, just tell me what and how you connected it to that 240V/30Amp line and then I can tell you if you're good? Fair enough?


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## legallyflying (May 31, 2013)

This is where I should get off my ass and take a picture. However, I spent the last 8 hours trimming. This is the 4th night in a row that this has happened. 

Anywho..the short and short of it.. Each 30 amp breaker powers 4 sockets, each of which will have a 1,000 ballast plug into them. 

So each breaker is going to be loaded with about 4,750 watts. (Turbo mode + draw of ballast intself). Given voltage of around 230-240 this yields around 20.5 amps constant load per breaker. 

It's kind of a moot point now. It's wired already, I have run rooms with identical set ups and never had a problem. 

Now I just have to install the time delay relays and integrate the shut of thermostat and I'm good to go. 

Oh yeah. There is also the matter of final inspection by the county of the house that sits on top of the sub basement grow room. 

10 feet under ground bitches!!! LOL


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## Gregor Mendel (May 31, 2013)

hi i need advice this is my 1st time growing .i am currently using a fan heater and that is in my tank but this wind is warm can that compensate for the fan for wind circulation as well as keeping the temperature constant ?


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## contraptionated (May 31, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> This is where I should get off my ass and take a picture. However, I spent the last 8 hours trimming. This is the 4th night in a row that this has happened.
> 
> Anywho..the short and short of it.. Each 30 amp breaker powers 4 sockets, each of which will have a 1,000 ballast plug into them.
> 
> ...


I totally feel your pain with the trimming. I tried every machine that exists and all that happens is damaged product. I had a feeling you had 4-1000's on each 2-pole 30amp circuit. You're right about the breaker but , yes , I have seen a receptacle melt right before my eyes. The wire terminated to the screw also went on fire . But that was with old TW wire. The kind that has fabric insulation coated with an insulating varnish. Realistically though, if you have a prob with an over current on one ballast, all four will go out because of the 4-gang parallel connection and according to code you would need to have the fuse holder (with a 15 amp cartridge fuse) supplying each ballast) whether or not the ballast is 240V or 120V. Look it up in article 240 of the NEC ( if my memory serves me correctly). It might be working for you, but its not code.


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## contraptionated (May 31, 2013)

Gregor Mendel said:


> hi i need advice this is my 1st time growing .i am currently using a fan heater and that is in my tank but this wind is warm can that compensate for the fan for wind circulation as well as keeping the temperature constant ?


I need more details on this tank. What is this tank holding? Also, try to split the grow into two rooms on a flip cycle so that you will not need to waste money on a heater. I know it isn't always possible to do that but if its in the cards it is definitely worth a rebuild if the fan/heater is using a lot of current.


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## contraptionated (May 31, 2013)

TallieMcCannabis said:


> Hello, so how do i go about making sure my box can handle another circuit. I have three slots unused and only want to add two 15 amp new ones. So far every thing runs and has not tripped any breakers but i just added a 600watt hps and want to run it on its own and the rest of the room on its own, hence the two new circuits i want to add. if it all works now am i good to just wire and go or what. thanks for any advice. I know enough not to burn down my house or kill myself, but thats where it ends


Tell about the main panel. What's the current rating of the main? Do you have a 220V single phase (2 hots and a neutral) or do you have the very rare 120V main (1 hot and 1 neutral)? What branch circuits do you have in the panel? Any high ampere rating appliances like a spa heater, electric heating etc? Give me an idea of what might be drawing current at any given time simultaneously and then I can give my suggestions.


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## TallieMcCannabis (May 31, 2013)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


*Hello, so how do i go about making sure my box can handle another circuit. I have three slots unused and only want to add two 15 amp new ones. So far every thing runs and has not tripped any breakers but i just added a 600watt hps and want to run it on its own and the rest of the room on its own, hence the two new circuits i want to add. if it all works now am i good to just wire and go or what. thanks for any advice. I know enough not to burn down my house or kill myself, but thats where it ends *


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## legallyflying (Jun 1, 2013)

^ look at the big fuse at the top of your panel. That fuse is what your panel is rated for. Usually 100,150, or 200 

Then add up the amps for big appliances like dish washers, hot water heaters, ovens, etc. if you have electric appliances and not allot of amps left, don't use them with your lights on.


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## Gregor Mendel (Jun 1, 2013)

OK space not that available for 2 rooms maybe later.but the fish tank is about 4 ft high and 3 ft wide with a height of 3 ft as well.the tank is holding about 4 plants in it with 2 fluorescent tubes on top and the plants are in soil pots. im not so familiar with the flip cycle method ? oh and the current for the fan heater is ok however im just concerned about the fact that i might get the plants infected with fungus or something thats why i wanted to know is this warm air the fan supplying enough for wind circulation well. so yeah thanx for the reply i appreciate it .


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## Gregor Mendel (Jun 1, 2013)

OK space not that available for 2 rooms maybe later.but the fish tank is about 4 ft high and 3 ft wide with a height of 3 ft as well.the tank is holding about 4 plants in it with 2 fluorescent tubes on top and the plants are in soil pots. im not so familiar with the flip cycle method ? oh and the current for the fan heater is ok however im just concerned about the fact that i might get the plants infected with fungus or something thats why i wanted to know is this warm air the fan supplying enough for wind circulation well. so yeah thanx for the reply i appreciate it .


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## legallyflying (Jun 1, 2013)

Dude, in all honesty. If your really interested in growing weed you need to buy or bit torrent at least a book or two on the subject. It seems to me you have absolutely zero knowledge I the subject. Plus, your fish tank grow (fairly assanine) are in a thread about specific electrical connections. 

This video may help... http://m.videojug.com/film/how-to-behave-on-an-internet-forum


I would pay specific attention to steps 4 and 10


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## Gregor Mendel (Jun 1, 2013)

dude yes , don't know a lot about about weed growing i know that in fact i think i made that clear enough however i am doing courses on botany so yeah growing weed was just next on my list.anyways yes part of me looking for help was to register on the forum but u kinda give the impression that u dont wana help but hey its cool man but hey i think you could of just not replied would have been better


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## contraptionated (Jun 1, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> Dude, in all honesty. If your really interested in growing weed you need to buy or bit torrent at least a book or two on the subject. It seems to me you have absolutely zero knowledge I the subject. Plus, your fish tank grow (fairly assanine) are in a thread about specific electrical connections.
> 
> This video may help... http://m.videojug.com/film/how-to-behave-on-an-internet-forum
> 
> ...


I agree with legallyflying on the fish tank being the wrong grow space. The air circulation is going to be far from ideal and you're quite constricted in your reach and even if you are able to reach in its a drag to have to lean over the glass (or acrylic). I remember my 120 gallon acrylic planted tank and what a bitch it was to keep the landscaping trimmed , and those were slow growing plants.


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## contraptionated (Jun 1, 2013)

Gregor Mendel said:


> dude yes , don't know a lot about about weed growing i know that in fact i think i made that clear enough however i am doing courses on botany so yeah growing weed was just next on my list.anyways yes part of me looking for help was to register on the forum but u kinda give the impression that u dont wana help but hey its cool man but hey i think you could of just not replied would have been better


We wanna help, trust me. That is what we are here for . Sometimes a little straight talk is misinterpreted (especially at the beginning of dialogue when you haven't had the chance to get to know the people on the forum yet). But it's all good. One day you'll know enough to throw the abuse right back at us! Lol. If you want some advice on how to build out a decent grow for your given space, feel free to pm me and I will be more than happy to share some soup to nuts designs that would help you achieve your goals.


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## legallyflying (Jun 3, 2013)

Yeah it wasn't anything personal, this forum gets tons of newbs that won't even do a little homework. 

I'm willing to help and I am a very straight talker. Fish tank grow? No. Dumb idea for a multitude of reasons I won't bother to list


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## tallstraw (Jun 4, 2013)

My girlfriends house for the upstairs all runs on one fuse I assume. I have a 8x52w (I think) t5 setup, a DWC bucket wiyh timer attached for 15 on 15 off. A 6in 435cfm fan, and a 1000w bulb with ballast running. As well as a fan to push C02 around for thr vegging plants at the time being. Xif hrr roomate tries to straighten or blowdry her hair. We will blow a fuse 50% of the time. How can we get it wired so that her room is on 1 fuse and the other is on another. Is that possible? Id like to add an Mini Split AC to her roo., and know as of now, it would pop. So maybe a second question would be how to allow more electeicty(amps?) to run to her room as well. If either of these options are at all feasible. I don't know much. So thanks for the time. I just want this grow room perfected, or as close as I can get. And with her electrical situation, its really not feasible atm. Her room gets to like 78 at night with her balcony door cracked, and when the lights run and 83 inside the tent, more in my veg tent. Because the t5's that arent having air pulled, only a rotatojg fan, with the door unzipped halfway up to keep light in but also vent heat...YOu can see my dilemma. As I'm writing this. I'm thinking of installing a sctreen door, so we can have it wide open.., and putting up a f
2ft wide black structure that 7ft tall so no one can see the tentd if they were to look in, but we'd then finally have full venting capability, or atleast a lot better..and as I just wrote that, I settled on trying it. But a response to the questions I asked already would be great, incase that method isn't enough.


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## legallyflying (Jun 5, 2013)

Jesus fucking run on Christ 

Long story short...your running too many lights for that space. It's always going to be too hot and you don't have enough electrical capacity to cool it. 

Running a new circuit is difficult. Very difficult in a place you don't own..which I suspect you don't. 

Get a 400 or 600 watt bloom set up. Learn to grow quality bud with that. Because your not going to grow it with too high temps. 

Just doesn't happen.


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## tallstraw (Jun 5, 2013)

Well I turned the light down to 750 before reading this. But also saw before that turning it down messes with the spectrum, which is not the same as an actual 750w bulb. Is it a negligible difference, or do I need a new 600w? Per your advice I shut off 4/8 on the veg 2x2x6.5 tent, and am gonna install that screen door. To see what helps. We're gonna start using AC too. Boohoo about the run on.


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## wheels619 (Jun 5, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> Jesus fucking run on Christ
> 
> Long story short...your running too many lights for that space. It's always going to be too hot and you don't have enough electrical capacity to cool it.
> 
> ...


i dont have any problems growing and flowering in 85 degree temps. my buds are still very dense and heavy even with heat. and is there really a such thing as too many lights? lol. i would pack 6 1000s in my 10x10 if i had the power for it. lmao. big monstrous budskies. but yes ac is nice. im actually waiting to set up my mini split for everything but until then 4 lights confined space with no ac and 85-90 degree temps with no problems.


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## contraptionated (Jun 5, 2013)

If you don't own your place and you really want more power (and you happen to want a mini split ac for your grow) just tell your landlord you need more power because you want an air conditioner. If you have anything less than a 60 amp (2-pole) circuit feeding the sub panel for your apt. then he will have no problem allowing you to pay for your own upgrade. Just a thought.


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## Stevie51 (Jun 9, 2013)

DuckAttack said:


> Okay. I looked through 1/2 of the post and could not find someone who asked my question.
> 
> "can you buy a 110v to 220v step-up box instead of running new wires? I have 2 1000Watt HPS but a butt load of other stuff and my breaker like most is rated at 15 amps. My Digital ballast can run both 110v and 220v. So I just wanted to buy a step up transformer I can plug into my rooms 110v outlets and plug the 2 1000 watt lights into the step-up box that can handle 2000 watt. I know 220 cuts your amps down quite a bit so wondering if this would work so I can use the same 15amp circuit.


Not going to work. First off, nothing is 100% efficient in converting energy, some of the energy used will be wasted in heat from the transformer, so you are limited to less than 7.5 amps @ 220 volts output from the transformer before tripping the 15 amp circuit breaker in the 110 volts circuit. No way any device can supply you with more watts on the output side than what is supplied on its input side.


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## legallyflying (Jun 9, 2013)

Put another way... There is no such thing as a "step up box". You could just identify the circuit and replace the breaker with a double pole breaker and then take the neutral wire from that circuit and attach it to the other side of the dbl pole breaker. BUT YOU HAVE TO KNOW EVERYTHING running on that breaker. If you have lights on it...poof, there goes your lights. 

Side bar..since your asking this question you lack an understanding of wiring and home circuits...so you best check and double check before you go walking down this road. At best, you melt your alarm clock, at worst, your bun down the house. Electricity is no joke dude. For reals


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## tallstraw (Jun 9, 2013)

contraptionated said:


> If you don't own your place and you really want more power (and you happen to want a mini split ac for your grow) just tell your landlord you need more power because you want an air conditioner. If you have anything less than a 60 amp (2-pole) circuit feeding the sub panel for your apt. then he will have no problem allowing you to pay for your own upgrade. Just a thought.


Thanks man.


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## contraptionated (Jun 9, 2013)

You're quite welcome.


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## Stevie51 (Jun 9, 2013)

Boulderheads said:


> Ok, so I think I have a pretty decent understanding of electrical currents and their properties. I have a switchable Sun System 1000watt ballast that can run on either 110 or 220. I understand that while the actual power consumption (watts) is unchanged from the current difference, the amount of amps the ballast uses is half on 220.(Makes perfect sense, double the current 1/2 the amps required). Point is... the only benefit of running 220 is drawing less amps on the ballast allowing for possibly more lights on a single circuit as long as you make sure not to overload by more then 75%. Can someone just verify if this is the only benefit to running 220 for a system such as this. Thanks in advance, such a great thread, glad people are trying to help in this area.


Yes it does seem like a moot point whether it's 110 volts or 220 volts that powering the ballasts except for the reason you gave about overloading a single circuit. I personally like to take advantage of the switchable feature of the switchable ballasts when running multiple 1000 watts ballasts on the same light controller built for 220 volts, simply because I know the load will always be balance across both hot legs of the double pole circuit breaker. But then I could also built a light controller to power 110 volts ballasts by using the same double pole circuit breaker and adding a neutral wire to construct two separate 110 volts circuits sharing one neutral wire. Of course you will have to balance the load to each circuit. Given the same even numbers of ballasts (for example, powering four 1000 watts ballasts) the current running through the double pole circuit breaker will be the same whether its 110 volts ballasts or 220 volts ballasts. So then again it become another moot point whether to run 110 volts or 220 volts to the ballasts.


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## legallyflying (Jun 9, 2013)

Longest ever answer when you could just say...yeah, there is no difference


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## Stevie51 (Jun 10, 2013)

I would also like to clarify, just so there is no misunderstanding in my posts, that when I use the word "current" I am referring to amps. Since Boulderheads mention that he has a Sun System 1000 watts ballast, I noticed that many of the Sun System ballasts are now using what Sunlight Supply refer to as a "Smart Volt" power cord. Does anyone know what is a smart volt power cord and what is so smart about the cord?


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## ASMALLVOICE (Jun 10, 2013)

Stevie51 said:


> I would also like to clarify, just so there is no misunderstanding in my posts, that when I use the word "current" I am referring to amps. Since Boulderheads mention that he has a Sun System 1000 watts ballast, I noticed that many of the Sun System ballasts are now using what Sunlight Supply refer to as a "Smart Volt" power cord. Does anyone know what is a smart volt power cord and what is so smart about the cord?



Its a new sales gimmick, just means the equipment will auto detect what voltage the source power is. My light can go 120/240. Just plug it in, nothing to switch on the device for specific voltages anymore.

Peace

Asmallvoice


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## Stevie51 (Jun 12, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> I will say that the recommendations you gave are directly inline with what I heard on other forums. Need to use #3 thhn.
> 
> So my grounding bar on my controller panel is not bonded to the box then?
> There seems to be a screw in the binding bar that serves to bind it with the panel.
> ...


On the secondary side of the pole mounted step down transformer serving your resident, the center tap of the transformer winding (which now becomes refer to as the "neutral" connection on the transformer) gets grounded to earth ground. The neutral wire feeding to your home gets grounded again to earth ground at what NEC refer to as the " first disconnect". Based on what you have described about your main circuit breaker panel having the neutral wires, earth ground connection and equipment grounding conductors going to the same bar inside that panel, the electrician who install that panel and the inspector who approved it is telling me that the main circuit breaker in that panel is being the " first disconnect". That being said, only that panel can have the neutral wires bonded to the equipment grounding wires. From that point on when the wires leave that panel, under no circumstances can the neutral be bonded to the grounding wires. The neutral wires will now be refer to as "current carrying conductors", and the grounding wires will be refer to as "normally non-current carrying conductors". The purpose is to eliminate current from flowing through the grounding wires until there is a fault. I will elaborate more on this subject as it pertain to wiring sub-panels at another time.


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## Stevie51 (Jun 12, 2013)

Please be advised that decades ago the NEC did approve using a dedicated branch circuit to the dryer or range that used only three wires receptacle to supply 240/120 volts to the dryer and range, and bonding the neutral to the chassis ground inside the dryer or range was allowed. However that is no longer allowed by NEC in new circuit installation. Now a new circuit must have four wires (two hot wires, one neutral wire, one grounding wire) for 240/120 volts dryer and range, and cannot bond the chassis ground to neutral.


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## contraptionated (Jun 13, 2013)

Stevie51 said:


> On the secondary side of the pole mounted step down transformer serving your resident, the center tap of the transformer winding (which now becomes refer to as the "neutral" connection on the transformer) gets grounded to earth ground. The neutral wire feeding to your home gets grounded again to earth ground at what NEC refer to as the " first disconnect". Based on what you have described about your main circuit breaker panel having the neutral wires, earth ground connection and equipment grounding conductors going to the same bar inside that panel, the electrician who install that panel and the inspector who approved it is telling me that the main circuit breaker in that panel is being the " first disconnect". That being said, only that panel can have the neutral wires bonded to the equipment grounding wires. From that point on when the wires leave that panel, under no circumstances can the neutral be bonded to the grounding wires. The neutral wires will now be refer to as "current carrying conductors", and the grounding wires will be refer to as "normally non-current carrying conductors". The purpose is to eliminate current from flowing through the grounding wires until there is a fault. I will elaborate more on this subject as it pertain to wiring sub-panels at another time.


I already elaborated. Old subject but thanks anyway. I already stated that its to prevent a parallel pathway to ground in the incident of short circuit current.


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## contraptionated (Jun 13, 2013)

Stevie51 said:


> Please be advised that decades ago the NEC did approve using a dedicated branch circuit to the dryer or range that used only three wires receptacle to supply 240/120 volts to the dryer and range, and bonding the neutral to the chassis ground inside the dryer or range was allowed. However that is no longer allowed by NEC in new circuit installation. Now a new circuit must have four wires (two hot wires, one neutral wire, one grounding wire) for 240/120 volts dryer and range, and cannot bond the chassis ground to neutral.


Who asked this question? With all due respect, and I do give you respect because you put in time and effort to explain things, but this is only a loosely related example of when the neutral and grounding conductor should not be interchanged or interconnected with one another. Even though it is common for a grower to re-purpose a dryer circuit for a sub-panel feeder and they might be curious as to how and why it was wired that way or if they could do the same thing with the neutral (if it was even used as a grounding path to begin with ) it still is irrelevant and verbose. This question was already answered and you went off on 2 tangents. 

The last tangent going off of the first. That runs the thread askew and could only leave people scratching their heads when you mention a dryer that nobody asked about.


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## legallyflying (Jun 14, 2013)

Sparky fight!!!


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## Stevie51 (Jun 14, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> Sparky fight!!!


Sorry to disappoint you, but there isn't going to be a sparky fight today, as none of my posts were intended to debate anything. I was merely trying to explain things to you in laymen's terms rather than leaving you solely reliant on one language.


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## legallyflying (Jun 14, 2013)

Awwww . 

I do appreciate it. I'm not a complete layman but your explanation was easier to follow than whats his nuts. Which you can see, it actually took him several posts to answer my question. Your explanation helped allot actually. 

So just for shits and giggles. What does happen if you have parallel grounds?


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## Stevie51 (Jun 15, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> Awwww .
> 
> I do appreciate it. I'm not a complete layman but your explanation was easier to follow than whats his nuts. Which you can see, it actually took him several posts to answer my question. Your explanation helped allot actually.
> 
> So just for shits and giggles. What does happen if you have parallel grounds?


The words "parallel grounds" and the words "parallel pathways" can take on two different meanings when taken out of contexts. Should someone illegally or inadvertently bond the neutral wires to the grounding wires in a sub-panel, I'll leave you with this food for thought: Current flowing through a neutral conductor will create an impedance in the wire. The impedance will increase with an increase in current flow, and the impedance will increase with a decrease in wire diameter. This impedance in the neutral wire will create a voltage difference between neutral and earth ground. This could be only a few volts or it could be several volts that is enough to shock you.


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## contraptionated (Jun 15, 2013)

If I tell you not to do something a certain way and you don't understand the explanation because it was terse that would be the problem of the readers comprehension skills. If I open the code book and complain that it gives me the shortest explanation possible by using the most specific and correct English, than I would need to open a dictionary. 

Brevity for the sake of sanity.Less words=efficiency.


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## Stevie51 (Jun 16, 2013)

contraptionated said:


> Yes. All your grounding (green) wires need to be on one bar that is mounted on plastic insulators so that it will not bond with the enclosure. All the ground (white) wires need to be on the other bar. Just interconnect the neutral bar with the neutral wire originating from the main panel and interconnect the grounding (green) bar with the green wire coming from the bonding lug of the main panel. The 30 amp breakers are totally wrong and are a fire hazard if used for 240V ballast receptacles. 1000w Lights cant be supplied by a 30 amp breaker unless there is a separate overcurrent protection downstream between the 30 amp breaker and the point where current is tapped for the primary of the ballast (usually a cartridge fuse contained in a 2-piece fuse holding socket).I can't sign off on that one.


The first sentence in that paragraph sounds like a perfect description of a "floating grounding system". Why would you not bond the enclosure to the grounding wires? It should be the neutral wires that get isolated from the enclosure. The only example I can think of off the top of my head to have a floating AC grounding system is when the same panel is being used for both AC and DC circuits, to isolate the AC grounding from the DC grounds.


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## jabolo (Jun 17, 2013)

Hi,


New to this forum and looking for some help on electrical setup.

Im building a pc grow box, have setup the lights - I never did any electrical work before so would like to check if I did it right before I start vegging. 

*Lights electrical setup (CFL):
*
I used 3 wall sockets which I fixed to the top of my Pc grow case (a plywood fixed to the 'ceiling', then the wall plugs strapped onto the plywood). The bulbs will go into the wall sockets (via adaptors). The wall sockets are each connected (using the red and black wires inside the white isolating plastic) to a splitter (bought the most heavy duty marked 380V) which then connects to a plug. So I have 3 red and 3 blacks going into splitter, coming out as 1 red and 1 black going into plug. For that part I used a thicker elec wire (one that has red, black as well as copper - earth - wire) as I thought that it would be safer. I also bought heavy duty plugs and extensions. Below is a (very ugly) diagram showing the connections i made. 

I have yet to find out how to upload pictures - it says invalid file... I've taken photos using my phone. I tried to reduce the file size from 2Mb to 89kb taking the pictures again on lower res. but still it says invalid file..... What am i doing wrong?

 

_Question 1a) I would be grateful to anyone who could have a look at the above and tell me if it's okay. 
Question 1b) I am using a timer for the lights, the timer had a 13A rating - is this safe to use? All 3 wallsockets holding the bulbs will be connected to the timer. 

_​

I have another question regarding *ventilation*: I have 2 size 120mm fans, and 5 or 6 size 80mm fans and one 40mm one. 
Im not sure which combo to use for exhaust:


1) 3 size 80mm fans OR
2) 1 size 120mm fan? 


*Question 1*: Are 3 medium fans more efficient than 1 large(r) fan? 


I cant tell the rotation speed but i gather that the Ampage on each fan, is an indication of its max rotation speed, right?
If so, should i use a 0.27A fan rather than a 0.12A one? 


*Question 2*: Should i use fans with higher amp? 


Powering the fans:


I understand that my charger amp rating should be higher than my total amp for all fans connected. E.g. 3 fans at 0.12A = 0.36A total; would need a charger with a rating of at least 0.40A (400mA).


*Q 3*: Is the above correct regarding the amp etc?


Now for the voltage. Fans are at 12V. I got a charger that outputs 12V with Amp rating of 1.25A.

*Q 4*: Is a 12V charger (or adaptor) good for connecting all my fans (as long as the total Amp is below the adaptor's amp rating) ? 


*Q 5*:What is the effect of using a lower voltage than 12V? 


*Q 6*: As long as my charger's amp rating exceeds my total fan amp rating, does it matter what my charger's voltage is? 


I apologise if my questions seem stupid or if i used the wrong terminology. This is my first grow and i really want to get it reasonably right (i am dying for a decent herb since moving in a country with extremely poor supply of quality cannabis). 


I have seen quite a few comprehensive and helpful threads and therefore joined this forum to first get advice and hopefully give some advice too at some point.


So thanks in advance for any replies and good luck with your grows!


One.


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## contraptionated (Jun 17, 2013)

Stevie51 said:


> The first sentence in that paragraph sounds like a perfect description of a "floating grounding system". Why would you not bond the enclosure to the grounding wires? It should be the neutral wires that get isolated from the enclosure. The only example I can think of off the top of my head to have a floating AC grounding system is when the same panel is being used for both AC and DC circuits, to isolate the AC grounding from the DC grounds.


Floating grounding system??? You obviously don't know the code!! You are not supposed to bond the ground ing bar (of a breaker panel) to the enclosure or the neutral bar to the enclosure anywhere except for the main breaker panel. If you comprehended my advice for legallyflying I told her not to bond neither of those things to the enclosure except for at the main breaker panel.The grounding bar at the sub panel (or lighting controller) only gets a grounding wire connection between the main grounding bar (at the main panel) and the sub panel grounding bar in question. To prevent parallel grounding paths. If you don't understand that phrase go look it up in the NEC before you say that it can take on different meanings out of context. Nobody is speaking out of context here! I'm talking about grounding and bonding.

You don't understand the code and you proved it by calling the isolated grounding bar (isolated from the sub panel enclosure) at the sub panel/lighting controller a "floating grounding system". Time for you to step aside son and go study the code book before you put your foot in your mouth again.

Go start brushing up on your Article 250 of the NEC.
P.S. The correct term for what you describe as a "floating grounding system" is "isolated grounding bar". Pretty amazing the way you advise people to isolate the neutral from the metal housing of a dryer (which is correct) but don't understand where and when or why to isolate the grounding wires at a breaker panel. 
P.P.S. I'm not superhuman, but I'm infallible when it comes to how and when to implement the NEC. At best you can agree with my electrical advice and stand correct. Why disagree when you will always be wrong??


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## legallyflying (Jun 18, 2013)

Ummm I am not a her. I'm a him. Is it wrong to want to fuck your avatar?


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## joe macclennan (Jun 18, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> Ummm I am not a her. I'm a him. Is it wrong to want to fuck your avatar?


It would be wrong to want to fuck _my _avatar but I would certainly like some time alone with the chick in yours






jus sayin.........


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## contraptionated (Jun 18, 2013)

jabolo said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> New to this forum and looking for some help on electrical setup.
> ...


You should house the duplex receptacles in surface mountable single gang boxes (aka handi boxes). This way the receptacles are securely fastened and incidental contact with live parts isn't possible. Try to use romex squeeze connectors or better yet rubber cord connectors to route the 120 volt line through each single gang receptacle box. The receptacles will be wired in parallel, of course.

Chances are your timer can only handle a 2.6 amp inductive load. 13 amps is probably only if the loads are purely resistive (like a toaster). You are powering inductive loads and the contacts of your timer will only be able to conduct 20% of the resistive load rating. You may need a contactor with a much higher current rating to power your lights and fans if the sum total of current is past the inductive load rating of the timer. Regardless of the timers current rating it is always good to have the reliability of a high current rating contactor to supply inductive loads. Use the timer to energize the 120 volt holding coil of a Size 1 3-pole motor starter. The motor starter can directly supply three separate loads or a combination of loads not surpassing the current rating of each contact. If you need that set up , do some searching for motor starter diagrams. 

Use every fan you have to exhaust heat. Redundancy is the key to reliability. To achieve full redundancy you will need to have a separate 12V power supply for each fan. If one power supply fails , you will have the other fans going. If you choose to use 1 power supply, don't load past 50 percent of the current rating. If something gets stuck in one of the fans or the fan is stuck for one reason or the other, the current will spike and you will lose all the fans. That could still happen even if you rate that single power supply accordingly. Better to have a separate power supply for each one. They're not expensive. 

The effect of using lower voltage is that the lower the voltage gets the less wire you can use for connecting the equipment. Becomes more of a problem when you try to connect multiple fans to one power supply. More wire= more voltage drop=higher current=more of a chance of blowing the one time fuse encased in a molded low voltage power supply=more chances of losing all heat extraction if all the fans are connected to one power supply.

It definitely matters what voltage is the power supply. Match the voltage of the equipment, unless you want to fry it. There are only rare cases where resistive devices can be wired in series to accommodate higher voltage power supply. This is not one of those cases. Also, no intake fans needed. Simply make holes equal to 4x the square inch area of the exhaust outlets for intake holes. If the fans in question do not move the same amount of air as the max cfm rating of the most powerful centrifugal fans on the market with the same diameter as your fans, than you could probably have less square inch area for your intake holes.
P.S. 3 medium fans are not more efficient than 1 large fan, but it is a much more reliable configuration to have 3 fans instead of 1.


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## jabolo (Jun 18, 2013)

contraptionated said:


> You should house the duplex receptacles in surface mountable single gang boxes (aka handi boxes). This way the receptacles are securely fastened and incidental contact with live parts isn't possible. Try to use romex squeeze connectors or better yet rubber cord connectors to route the 120 volt line through each single gang receptacle box. The receptacles will be wired in parallel, of course.
> 
> Chances are your timer can only handle a 2.6 amp inductive load. 13 amps is probably only if the loads are purely resistive (like a toaster). You are powering inductive loads and the contacts of your timer will only be able to conduct 20% of the resistive load rating. You may need a contactor with a much higher current rating to power your lights and fans if the sum total of current is past the inductive load rating of the timer. Regardless of the timers current rating it is always good to have the reliability of a high current rating contactor to supply inductive loads. Use the timer to energize the 120 volt holding coil of a Size 1 3-pole motor starter. The motor starter can directly supply three separate loads or a combination of loads not surpassing the current rating of each contact. If you need that set up , do some searching for motor starter diagrams.
> 
> ...




Hi and thanks a lot for your reply!

As it stands I don't understand half of what you wrote, but I'll start by googling all of it bit by bit until I get it, it's not your explanation the problem but rather my very poor grasp of electrics...

Bottom line:


1. I understand that I should use a contactor between my lights and my timer. Need to research on this as I have no idea what this is. But I understand that it is NOT safe to use my timer to plug in my lights (the fans will fun 24/7 - I don't think I'll plug them to the timer as I think the plant will need ventilation even when the lights are off). 
If I'm using 3 26w bulbs, on a supply of 240v, it means my amp for each bulb is 26/240=1.smtg A? So 3 bulbs would be about 3A? 
I'm prolly wrong on this: current = power / voltage? 

2. I understand the bit about using 3 adaptors for 3 fans so that the ventilation is more reliable in case something goes pear shaped with one of the fans. 

As for the fan voltage, I'm using only 12V charger(s) as you advised.

Thanks for the intake fan idea, just to be sure - if my exhaust area is a total of say 8 square inch, then I should use 8*4 = 32 square inch holes for passive intake? 

Many thanks again for your help. I guess I gotta spend some time reading on all this...man how I wish I'd paid more attention in my physics class! 

From looking around it seems that there're some pretty ghetto setups out there, but I'm really worried about something going wrong with the box and my room catching fire and exploding (weed induced paranoia or justified fear?) ...which is why I really want to understand all this electric setup before I start my 'project' even if it means delaying the whole thing....

J.


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## Stevie51 (Jun 18, 2013)

In a sub-panel the neutral wires are mounted on one bar that is mounted on plastic insulators so that it will not bond with the enclosure. This is refer to as "floating the neutral wires". This step alone has created only one pathway for neutral currents to travel to the main panel (we want only one pathway for neutral currents). Because current flowing through a wire create an impedance in that wire, this neutral pathway is also called a high impedance pathway. When a short circuit fault occurs between a hot wire and a enclosure, the fault current must have a separate low impedance pathway to the main panel in order for the circuit breaker to function quickly. The equipment grounding conductor provides this low impedance pathway. The equipment grounding conductor is connected on a separate bar in the sub-panel that is not insulated from the enclosure.


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## contraptionated (Jun 18, 2013)

Hey Jabolo! I didn't know your lights would be such a low wattage. Don't worry about using a motor starter for a contactor. Just use some general purpose relays (4 pole is good for 2-240V lights) to supply the loads since they are relatively tiny. Buy yourself 4-4 pole 240V general purpose relays. Let the timer energize the coil of the relay and use the Normally Open contacts on either side of the relay base terminals to conduct the loads when the timer calls for it. 

A general purpose relay contact is good for 1 amp inductive and your lights are only 26W @240 Volts so you're not even pulling 1/10th of an amp per light. You can get the relays (with the base included) for about 10 usd each (roundabout) on ebay. My favorite brand of relay is idec. Sometimes you can get them cheap at an electrical supply house that specializes in switchgear.

Check out elec-toolbox dot com for helpful wiring diagrams.


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## wheels619 (Jun 19, 2013)

oh hell im way too shit faced to make sure these guys dont burn your house down. lol. i just pop in from time to time to check up. good luck all.


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## jabolo (Jun 19, 2013)

contraptionated said:


> Hey Jabolo! I didn't know your lights would be such a low wattage. Don't worry about using a motor starter for a contactor. Just use some general purpose relays (4 pole is good for 2-240V lights) to supply the loads since they are relatively tiny. Buy yourself 4-4 pole 240V general purpose relays. Let the timer energize the coil of the relay and use the Normally Open contacts on either side of the relay base terminals to conduct the loads when the timer calls for it.
> 
> A general purpose relay contact is good for 1 amp inductive and your lights are only 26W @240 Volts so you're not even pulling 1/10th of an amp per light. You can get the relays (with the base included) for about 10 usd each (roundabout) on ebay. My favorite brand of relay is idec. Sometimes you can get them cheap at an electrical supply house that specializes in switchgear.
> 
> Check out elec-toolbox dot com for helpful wiring diagrams.



Thanks again mate! Yesterday was my first day w/out any green (spending my money on equipment rather than on my dealer lol) and I must admit reading your reply made me really worried about my setup! 

I still don't understand all of what you've said, but you've mentionned some key words that'll help me do some more specific research! 

Thanks!

J.


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## contraptionated (Jun 19, 2013)

Stevie51 said:


> In a sub-panel the neutral wires are mounted on one bar that is mounted on plastic insulators so that it will not bond with the enclosure. This is refer to as "floating the neutral wires". This step alone has created only one pathway for neutral currents to travel to the main panel (we want only one pathway for neutral currents). Because current flowing through a wire create an impedance in that wire, this neutral pathway is also called a high impedance pathway.
> 
> When a short circuit fault occurs between a hot wire and a enclosure, the fault current must have a separate low impedance pathway to the main panel in order for the circuit breaker to function quickly. The equipment grounding conductor provides this low impedance pathway. The equipment grounding conductor is connected on a separate bar in the sub-panel that is not insulated from the enclosure.


You are only half right. The neutral is indeed isolated, you would only refer to it as "floating" in slang. I like to keep my terminology uniform with the NEC, this way when somebody checks my advice with the only reference literature that matters, the lingo matches up. The grounding conductors (green wires) are also isolated (floated as you refer to it) from the panel enclosure in a sub panel. Ill say this again, but next time I will cite the appropriate section of Article 250 of the most recent edition of the NEC if that's what it takes.

It is obvious that you don't realize the code has changed in recent years in respect to grounding. The homeowner is forced to use a grounding conductor in all branch circuit wiring originating from a sub panel. The metal enclosures of equipment and device boxes get a grounding connection (bond) do that safety is there for human life as usual, but if you bond the grounding bar at the sub panel it's wrong. 

Here's how debate works. You say to do something because of a belief. I strike down that belief by telling you it's not code. If you want to tell me otherwise, at least paraphrase the appropriate sub-section of the most recent NEC to prove your stance.

But at the very least, you need to use proper terminology. Repeat after me ...I-S-O-L-A-T-E-D.

What you're not understanding is that the sub-panel is like another device box. The original question from legallyflying was whether or not he had to bond the ground bar (neutral) or the grounding bar (green) to the sub panel enclosure. The answer is no for either of those "bars". But if you go back in the thread, Legallyflying said he would be using pvc conduit between the main panel and the lighting controller (sub panel). That is why I suggested a grounding conductor from the main panel to the lighting controller. The lighting controller enclosure gets a grounding conductor bonded to it like any other device box, originating from the grounding bar at the main panel. The lighting controller grounding bar gets a grounding wire connection from the main panel grounding bar , but no bond to the enclosure. 

Now understand this. The code in your city may require more than the NEC. But in this case I know I cited the NEC and I don't think that local code varies much with sub-panel grounding.


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## Stevie51 (Jun 20, 2013)

Yes, stating that "the sub-panel is like another device box" is a good way of phrasing it. I didn't elaborate on the branch circuit wiring originating from the sub-panel because I wanted to keep my post simple and sweet ( I was accused of being verbose in a previous post). Whether NEC allows it or not, I see no problem in having the grounding bar for the equipment grounding conductors isolated from the sub-panel enclosure. You are still effectively providing a low impedance pathway for the short circuit fault current to travel on from the device box and equipment to the main circuit breaker panel. If you elect this method then another low impedance pathway (such as a metallic conduit or equipment grounding wire) must be provided to connect the sub-panel enclosure to the main circuit breaker panel. P.S. Don't expect to see an insulated grounding bar for the equipment grounding conductors come packaged with most sub-panels.


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## contraptionated (Jun 20, 2013)

I agree and I concur.


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## Steelheader3430 (Jun 23, 2013)

I recently acquired a 1000 watt 240 volt metal halide setup. I was wondering if I can plug it into a 120 volt outlet or if it needs to be in a 220. I have a 220 volt outlet luckily. There is minimal info on the system just what I posted up top. Its about 15 years old probably. Will that affect its efficiency, are the newer ones more energy efficient? Thank you, Yes I am totally new to this.


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## silasraven (Jun 29, 2013)

i got a blizzard fan and the motor keeps over heating, it was stored in a dusty area, is the dust the cause or is there something i can do to get this thing running again, it will run but then stop and run again?


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## wyteboi (Jun 30, 2013)

silasraven said:


> i got a blizzard fan and the motor keeps over heating, it was stored in a dusty area, is the dust the cause or is there something i can do to get this thing running again, it will run but then stop and run again?


dust can, but never does hurt them motors. the dust on the blades will throw it off balance an ruin it eventually. i dont know of any tricks to get your motor runnin proper. clean the blades real good .... blow the motor out the best you can and if that dont help the motor is probably about done.
if the fan is on a timer or a relay , you could eliminate those and just try to run it constant on high only.




hope everyone is doin well ! looks like were still in good hands with this thread. got some code readers here 


soil


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## riak hommi (Jul 8, 2013)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


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## vkambull (Jul 18, 2013)

Thanks for your previous advice. Now I'm getting ready to install my first mini split. It's a senville 24000 btu. Is it just 10 ga, 2 wire from sub panel to outdoor unit, and then 3 wire 14 ga to indoor unit?


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## Hoest (Jul 20, 2013)

Bricktown,

I noticed that you posted up for all to ask anything regarding electrical questions. I cannibalized a two foot fluorescent hood because it was damaged, basically I pulled all the electric parts and ditched the metal bit. I was planning on fastening the ballast to the top rails in my tent and zip tie each of the four sockets to the four upright tent poles for supplemental lighting. Where your knowledge comes into play is when I unscrewed everything from the fixture I also detached two green (neutral?) wires from the fixture that are attached to the power cord. I have not plugged the ballast into anything to figure out if it'd work without those wires attached because I don't feel like zapping myself which I've done before installing track lighting/welding. What I wanted to know is if I could attach those two green contacts to the metal pole of the tent string those lights in the tent?


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## fredro (Jul 20, 2013)

i was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of learning how to set upmy own 240v line​


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## Julius Caesar (Jul 22, 2013)

Are there any issue using a 600w dimmable ballast set at other wattages with a 600w HPS? My ballast has a 300W, 450W, 600W, and 660W settings. I can see the 660W shortening the life of the bulb, but will running it at 300W or 450W cause any resistive heat or other issues in the ballast or bulb? Thanks


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## its a hobby honey ! (Jul 23, 2013)

so....
i have a quick question! i have been building a 60 amp panel for my flower room , and would like to know what off the shelf relays are used when it comes to switching 10 or 12 1000w sodium's ? this is a super tight budget being my first grow I feel like All Bundy handing out green right left and center .
Which is fine as i know i will be reaping what is sown LOL
I was thinking two 30amp relays, timer controlled each with 6 X 240v outlets on each one . maybe twin timers to stagger the start times slightly .I have new Mag ballasts i will be using 

i will post some picks of the work so far tonight .


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## Stevie51 (Jul 23, 2013)

its a hobby honey ! said:


> so....
> i have a quick question! i have been building a 60 amp panel for my flower room , and would like to know what off the shelf relays are used when it comes to switching 10 or 12 1000w sodium's ? this is a super tight budget being my first grow I feel like All Bundy handing out green right left and center .
> Which is fine as i know i will be reaping what is sown LOL
> I was thinking two 30amp relays, timer controlled each with 6 X 240v outlets on each one . maybe twin timers to stagger the start times slightly .I have new Mag ballasts i will be using
> ...


I think you are nuts if you think you can power ten to twelve 1000 watts HPS lights from a 60 amps panel, although I like your idea of using two 30 amps relays with each relay having its own separate timer staggering the start-up time of each relay. Try to limit the number of 1000 watts ballasts to just four per relay until you have figured out how to cool 8000 watts of heat produce from the lights. I would think you should be able to power the inline fans to air cool the room and lights (if you are using air cooled light hoods or tubes) with the remaining power available in the 60 amps panel, but I think you would be nuts if you think you can power a 120 volts air conditioner from that same 60 amps panel. I'm open for any criticism if anyone want to give their opinion on this subject matter. [h=1][/h]


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## beterthanjeff (Jul 24, 2013)

not sure the amp to watt formula so you may wanna check it out but it sounds like you have way too much goin on how big is your room?


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## Sire Killem All (Jul 25, 2013)

will this wire work and be ok with this ballast. it is a old hand me down wall hanging type.


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## Stevie51 (Jul 25, 2013)

beterthanjeff said:


> not sure the amp to watt formula so you may wanna check it out but it sounds like you have way too much goin on how big is your room?


The amperage of the ballast is usually stated on the ballast. In absent of that data, the rule of thumb is: one amp per 100 watts @ 120 volts, or .5 amp per 100 watts @ 240 volts. Thus for every 1000 watts ballast operating on 240 volts it would be 5 amps per ballast. Now many of you may think he is fine and dandy to run up to ten 1000 watts ballasts on a 60 amp panel, but I have no idea (nor the experience) as to how sensitive the circuit breaker feeding that many ballasts is to the in-rush current during the first second (which is the length of time for the current to complete 60 full cycles). Perhaps someone with a nickname of "Power Strip Charlie", who motto is "no grow room is complete without a power strip" and have tripped more breakers in a year than what most of us have trip in a lifetime, can give us his expertise. I would think one would want to start out with a plan they believe might have a chance to reliably work.


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## its a hobby honey ! (Jul 26, 2013)




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## its a hobby honey ! (Jul 26, 2013)

so about half way through still making my mind up on the switch's .but will keep them in groups of four starting with 8K . 
This will work like this- two lights circuits
- 4 fans circuits, two switched to keep two rows of hoods cool , so staggered start with the lights
and then shut off 20 mins after the light cycle .
then upper and lower fan circuits running 24/7
I already have the 120 v stuff covered as well as the veg box power so really all i need to get out of this circuit is 8 lights .
So correct me if i am wrong but at 5 amps a light makes 40 amps and with staggered start should be good to break out the sunblock and Oakley,s


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## wheels619 (Jul 26, 2013)

its a hobby honey ! said:


> so about half way through still making my mind up on the switch's .but will keep them in groups of four starting with 8K .
> This will work like this- two lights circuits
> - 4 fans circuits, two switched to keep two rows of hoods cool , so staggered start with the lights
> and then shut off 20 mins after the light cycle .
> ...


your actually closer to about 5.5 amps each depending on manufacturer and parts. could be a tad more with those magnetic ballasts. to run 8 lights you should need about 44 amps of 220. so a 50 amp 220 plug isnt enough with the safety factor. go bigger good luck. id pull in 60 amps to be safe just to cover that many 1000watt lights. not including ac, dehumidifier or anything else you will add. looks good tho dude. good luck. happy growing.


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## wheels619 (Jul 26, 2013)

and by the way its more than a hobby honey. lmao. its a lifestyle. lol. saw that and it cracked me up.


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## Stevie51 (Jul 27, 2013)

its a hobby honey ! said:


> so....
> i have a quick question! i have been building a 60 amp panel for my flower room , and would like to know what off the shelf relays are used when it comes to switching 10 or 12 1000w sodium's ? this is a super tight budget being my first grow I feel like All Bundy handing out green right left and center .
> Which is fine as i know i will be reaping what is sown LOL
> I was thinking two 30amp relays, timer controlled each with 6 X 240v outlets on each one . maybe twin timers to stagger the start times slightly .I have new Mag ballasts i will be using
> ...


Hot Tubs and Spas most commonly have a 5500 watts 240 volts water heater, controlled by a contactor (high power relay) rated at 40 or 50 amps that would be perfect for switching on your lights. Another style contactor with the expose contacts as seen in this link http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/gro...controller.asp would also work great for your needs. Shouldn't be a problem getting a Double Pole Single Throw (DPST) contactor for $20 or $25 on Ebay. Be careful that you select the contactor with a coil operating voltage that match your timer voltage. Most people like to use a 120 volts timer to switch the relay on and off, and thus would order a contactor with a 120 volts coil and make a trigger cord out of an ordinary 120 volts power cord to connect the timer to the contactor coil terminals. I prefer to have the inline fan (that will be cooling those lights running on that relay) to be powered by the same timer or trigger cord. Timers have been known to fail and I wouldn't want a situation of lights running without a fan cooling them. Glad to see you decided to use two contactors (relays) to divide the lights into two separate group of four.


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## NewGreen92 (Jul 28, 2013)

Do you guys think I will be ok running a window unit and my light through a 100 foot 10 gauge extension cord on a 20 amp breaker? my light is a 1000 watt dimmable ballast with a 600w hps bulb and my a/c is a 8000 btu haier window unit I need to check the efficiency rating


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## Stevie51 (Jul 28, 2013)

NewGreen92 said:


> Do you guys think I will be ok running a window unit and my light through a 100 foot 10 gauge extension cord on a 20 amp breaker? my light is a 1000 watt dimmable ballast with a 600w hps bulb and my a/c is a 8000 btu haier window unit I need to check the efficiency rating


Why don't you try it and give us your feedback. I've seen people using 100 feet of 12 gauge extension cords to power a 1.5 hp pump motor to their above ground swimming pool on a 15 amp breaker, until an inspector one day happen to be driving by and notice it. Although you will be pulling a few more amps than that pool pump motor, you have an extension cord that can handle more amps and a larger breaker.


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## BossHoggins (Jul 28, 2013)

You should really look into a permanent installation to move that much power. Extension cords are ok for temporary measures, but are far from 'the right tool for the job'. It's too long, you can trip on it, it might have nicks already in the insulation and the conductor, etc etc..


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## BACG (Jul 29, 2013)

Quick Question.

I have two spare 20 amp circuits on my main panel in garage. I already ran TWO 12/2 Romex cables through the attic, from garage to the room. 

Would it be OK for me to take each cable and install a box with 4 standard 20 amp 120v plugs?

so when done, I would have two 4" boxes on the wall, total of 8 outlets, each box on their own 20 amp circuit. 

I plan on plugging 1 1000 watt into each box, and splitting up the fans between the two. 

so this will be a 2k grow, add everything else in, maybe 2500 - 2600w. 

Will this be ok? I read alot about installing a sub panel in the room, then outlets off that.. 

Since I have already ran the two 12/2 cables through attic and have the two spare 20 amp circuits in my main panel, Im trying to avoid having to buy and re run more romex for 240v to feed a sub panel.

Would my plan still be safe?

Could I still do a sub panel box w a timer even though I have 2 12/2 wires, not the usual 1 big 8/3 or whatever feed wire?


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## BossHoggins (Jul 30, 2013)

I would properly feed a 220V sub panel and remove/save the 2 wire romex for some other project. I know it sucks to install but you'll be way happier in the end, especially if you plan on using that room for a while.

Now, you /do/ already have 4 12 gauge wires ran.. you could run a single 220V circuit with what you have. Whether or not it can safely supply the amperage is up to you to find out as it's based on distance, conduit type, number of wires in the bundle, ambient air temp, insulation type.. blah blah. But that's why they have reference books! Also, I'm not sure it's kosher to split up conductors in different conduits for 1 circuit. Seems hokey to me, but I don't see why you couldn't. I'd really prefer a single cable bundle/conduit.


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## Stevie51 (Jul 30, 2013)

BACG said:


> Quick Question.
> 
> I have two spare 20 amp circuits on my main panel in garage. I already ran TWO 12/2 Romex cables through the attic, from garage to the room.
> 
> ...


You started out with a good plan to run two 120 volts branch circuits, why all the sudden you have the urge for 240 volts? Two 1000 watts ballasts @ 240 volts will have the same sum total current (amp) draw of 10 amps through a sub-panel as would be with the ballasts placed on two 120 volts circuits as you described.


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## BACG (Jul 30, 2013)

I had just read and been told having a sub panel in the room is safer.. But is my idea of having two straight boxes w outlets on the wall and plugging ballasts right to them unsafe? Maybe just use 2 manual timers? Should be plenty of spare amps on either 20 amp circuit. Ive been told NOT to plug ballasts straight to wall. Friend says i need a "box on the wall w built in timer" and i need to plug ballast into that.


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## Stevie51 (Jul 30, 2013)

BACG said:


> I had just read and been told having a sub panel in the room is safer.. But is my idea of having two straight boxes w outlets on the wall and plugging ballasts right to them unsafe? Maybe just use 2 manual timers? Should be plenty of spare amps on either 20 amp circuit. Ive been told NOT to plug ballasts straight to wall. Friend says i need a "box on the wall w built in timer" and i need to plug ballast into that.


Your original plan to run two 12/2 with ground NM-B (Romex) cables to 120 volts outlets as you described is very safe. You may even be able to plug in a 5,000 btu air conditioner (nothing larger than 5,000 btu) to one of the outlets if needed. A sub-panel is only necessary when you are running more 1000 watts ballasts in that room, so bear that in mind if you plan to expand the lighting in the future. Yes you will need two timers (one for each ballast) for now.


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## BossHoggins (Jul 30, 2013)

His total amp draw going to the room would be double on 110V, not the same. 

I say anything pulling a kilowatt or more should be 220V. Less heat in the conductor.. you can use a smaller gauge wire.. The advantages are many. You can pull 110V off the panel too..

I thought 12/2 wire meant there were only 2 conductors in the bundle. If there is a 3rd for a ground fault.. yeah, that's fine if you wanna keep them 110V. I wouldn't move 2KW anywhere without an isolated fault circuit though.


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## BACG (Jul 31, 2013)

In the 12/2 wire there is white black and bare (ground). Im no electrical guy by any means but did you assume there was no ground in 12/2 ? 

Would it be any help to get the circuit breakers with arc fault protection? The little curly white wire coming off the breaker? Lol dont laugh i dunno wtf it means, but would that add safety?


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## Sand4x105 (Jul 31, 2013)

You don't need arc fault... 12/2 always has a ground, same with-6/3 , 10/2 , 8/3 , 12/3 they all have a ground....Romex/MC wires and cables always have a ground if bought new... Hook all your grounds always back to and at continues to panel from equipment.... Good Luck!


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## Stevie51 (Jul 31, 2013)

I've done some research on BACG. Simple enough to do on anyone in this forum by using your computer mouse to left click on the person's name in the upper left of their post. Seem to me BACG has a 4'x8' grow tent in a spare bedroom, or at least was planning on doing one. Am I correct BACG? Based on that information, I'm going to invoke the K.I.S.S. rule and stick to my advice as already been stated in my previous posts to BACG for the present time. *KISS* is an acronym for "*Keep it simple, stupid*" as a design principle noted by the U.S. Navy in 1960. The *KISS principle* states that most systems work best if they are kept simple rather than made complex. BACG, or anyone else, is more than welcome to left click on my name for my advice or reply on other electrical subjects.


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## BACG (Jul 31, 2013)

Stevie51 said:


> I've done some research on BACG. Simple enough to do on anyone in this forum by using your computer mouse to left click on the person's name in the upper left of their post. Seem to me BACG has a 4'x8' grow tent in a spare bedroom, or at least was planning on doing one. Am I correct BACG? Based on that information, I'm going to invoke the K.I.S.S. rule and stick to my advice as already been stated in my previous posts to BACG for the present time. *KISS* is an acronym for "*Keep it simple, stupid*" as a design principle noted by the U.S. Navy in 1960. The *KISS principle* states that most systems work best if they are kept simple rather than made complex. BACG, or anyone else, is more than welcome to left click on my name for my advice or reply on other electrical subjects.


Thanks stevie! Ended up going with my original plan like you said and it seems to work perfectly. 

Had an electrician come check everything out today and he said everythings good. Good to hear for me!

So many people will tell you 20 different ways and im sure theyre all great, but yeah im gonna start telling them "KISS PRINCIPLE, DUDE" hahaha.


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## tuone (Jul 31, 2013)

Hi, here is a schematic for a solenoid water valve controlled by a soil moisture sensor for outdoors use.

What control electronics would be necessary to switch the solenoid valve for 2 minutes when the humidity sensor hits a certain level? What kind of battery would be suitable?


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## shax (Aug 1, 2013)

mate im having trouble wiring up a bathroom fan ive got a fuse switch that has power when I plug in in to the wall but ive no idea how to wire the fan to it ive tried a 3 core wire n I just tried a 4 core wire please help


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## contraptionated (Aug 4, 2013)

shax said:


> mate im having trouble wiring up a bathroom fan ive got a fuse switch that has power when I plug in in to the wall but ive no idea how to wire the fan to it ive tried a 3 core wire n I just tried a 4 core wire please help


Be more specific and I will lay out a connection schematic. Describe this "fuse switch". What is the voltage of the fan? What is the supply voltage?


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## contraptionated (Aug 4, 2013)

tuone said:


> Hi, here is a schematic for a solenoid water valve controlled by a soil moisture sensor for outdoors use.
> 
> What control electronics would be necessary to switch the solenoid valve for 2 minutes when the humidity sensor hits a certain level? What kind of battery would be suitable?
> 
> View attachment 2758286


 Go to ebay and buy an Omron H3CA relay. Make sure to include an 11 pin base (if it isn't already combined). Because you are playing with such a low voltage I will suggest to buy it new, not used. It can be powered with any voltage from 12-240V (AC or DC) but if the internal contacts are old and abused by 120V DC (which may be the case if it is used) it may give the low voltage a hard time breaking through the dirty contacts (which cannot be cleaned in the case of this relay). Buy the relay and I will tell you how to wire it. P.S. Omron H3CA's can do any electrical control operation imaginable (no limit). P.P.S. Does your moisture sensor include a set of contacts which open and close a circuit when the desired moisture is achieved? If so, this is a moisture controller with integral sensor. If you want a definite answer you must be 100% specific in your posts.


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## tuone (Aug 7, 2013)

contraptionated said:


> Go to ebay and buy an Omron H3CA relay. Make sure to include an 11 pin base (if it isn't already combined). Because you are playing with such a low voltage I will suggest to buy it new, not used. It can be powered with any voltage from 12-240V (AC or DC) but if the internal contacts are old and abused by 120V DC (which may be the case if it is used) it may give the low voltage a hard time breaking through the dirty contacts (which cannot be cleaned in the case of this relay). Buy the relay and I will tell you how to wire it. P.S. Omron H3CA's can do any electrical control operation imaginable (no limit). P.P.S. Does your moisture sensor include a set of contacts which open and close a circuit when the desired moisture is achieved? If so, this is a moisture controller with integral sensor. If you want a definite answer you must be 100% specific in your posts.


That's brilliant info thanks, I haven't decided which moisture sensor to buy for the moment, you can see from the choice on ebay, there are many $15 versions to choose from, i have seen some arduino adapters sold with moisture sensors that may have a kind of switch on them, i dont know, it may be better to make the control electronics at home... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Soil-Hygrometer-Detection-Module-Soil-Moisture-Sensor-/281043772532... As you say if there is a reliability/sensetivity risk, it could be good to have a redundant relay also available at a different humidity rating.


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## contraptionated (Aug 9, 2013)

That sensor you posted a link for (the $2.53 module) operates on a very low voltage which would require another power supply if you choose to use an Omron (11 pin) H3CA. You will also need a relay which operates at the same voltage as the analog alarm (signal) output (of the moisture module) and the contacts of this relay would need to be able to withstand 12V (AC or DC) or more in order to energize the Omron H3CA. 
So , in other words , you need a 3.3V-5V (the product description does not specify AC or DC but it is safe to assume that it is DC when the voltage is that low) coil relay with at least one set of SPDT (single pole double throw) contacts which can sustain 12V (AC or DC depending on the power supply you choose for the Omron H3CA). The solenoid valve can be a higher voltage if you choose to supply it from the same voltage as one of your general purpose electrical outlets.
It is also worth mentioning that if you choose to gravity feed the solenoid valve you may run into problems when (or whether or not) the water holding tank is low. If there is not enough static water pressure in "off" mode the solenoid may not stay closed. This is especially true when using any solenoid that is listed as "general purpose".
Be certain that you select a valve that is listed as a "shutoff valve". If it is a plastic "made in china " valve it is not worth anything. I had my experience with roughly 50-60 of the plastic china valves and they are total garbage. The worlds most reliable valve is an ASCO shutoff valve . Spend the extra money to avert the great flood.
The only 100% fail safe way to do any automatic watering operation is like this: 1)Buy a whirlpool washing machine siphon break.
2) Put a reliable submersible pump (such as a quiet one 4000) in the water holding tank. The siphon break needs about the same flow/psi rating as a washing machine pump to operate properly, that's why I like the Quiet One 4000 pump.
3) Put the siphon break inline with the pump (the siphon break is about the same O.D. as 3/4" pvc pipe but don't try buying adapters ahead of time, just plan the tubing run after you have all the main parts in front of you). You will position the siphon break in the same way you would position a u-bend for an aquarium siphon tube. Just make sure that if the siphon break leaks (almost no chance of that happening) it will leak into the holding tank and no harm done.
3) Remember to water in small spurts (if it takes an average of 30 seconds of "on" time to water completely, set the Omron H3CA's [you need two H3CA's to do it this way] to 10 seconds "on" and 20 minutes "off". By the time the moisture disperses evenly through the soil mass, the moisture sensor may or may not detect the desired moisture level. If it is not moist enough, the cycle will repeat after the 20 minutes of "off" time. If it is moist enough the Omron H3CA's will de-energize and watering will discontinue.


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## contraptionated (Aug 9, 2013)

NewGreen92 said:


> Do you guys think I will be ok running a window unit and my light through a 100 foot 10 gauge extension cord on a 20 amp breaker? my light is a 1000 watt dimmable ballast with a 600w hps bulb and my a/c is a 8000 btu haier window unit I need to check the efficiency rating


You will be O.K. running the 600 watt light (whether it is supplied by a " 1000 watt electronic" [aka ridiculously unreliable crap ballast] and the 8000 btu air conditioner on a 20 amp circuit (no #10 gauge wire necessary, 100 feet of #12 will not cause a significant voltage drop. If anybody says otherwise I will do the voltage drop calculation to prove it). You're ac unit will draw 6.9 amps max at 120V. You're "electronic" ballast can only draw about 9 amps max (that includes power factor losses) if it were to operate a 1000 watt bulb. You will only draw 16 amps max (continuous;the initial starting current of either appliance is not a factor in consideration of the wire size either [thats only considered when supplying a heavy duty motor, not a listed appliance such as a ballast or air conditioner] and 16 amps is the max allowed for a 20 amp circuit).
You will be drawing less amps (not more Stevie51) than a 1.5 HP pump motor (FLA of a 1.5 HP pump motor is precisely 13.4 amps at 120 volts) because you do not intend to use the 1000 watt "electronic" ballast at full power. As long as the ballast uses solid state circuitry (as opposed to a resistor bank) you will only draw about 12.4 amps with the air conditioner and 600 watt lamp operating at the same time. Unless you feel that you may upgrade this circuit to 30 amps for some odd reason, it would be a huge waste of money to use #10 awg instead of #12.
The preceding message was not a series of opinions but rather a logical chain of facts.


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## contraptionated (Aug 9, 2013)

Stevie51 said:


> Hot Tubs and Spas most commonly have a 5500 watts 240 volts water heater, controlled by a contactor (high power relay) rated at 40 or 50 amps that would be perfect for switching on your lights. Another style contactor with the expose contacts as seen in this link http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/gro...controller.asp would also work great for your needs. Shouldn't be a problem getting a Double Pole Single Throw (DPST) contactor for $20 or $25 on Ebay. Be careful that you select the contactor with a coil operating voltage that match your timer voltage. Most people like to use a 120 volts timer to switch the relay on and off, and thus would order a contactor with a 120 volts coil and make a trigger cord out of an ordinary 120 volts power cord to connect the timer to the contactor coil terminals. I prefer to have the inline fan (that will be cooling those lights running on that relay) to be powered by the same timer or trigger cord. Timers have been known to fail and I wouldn't want a situation of lights running without a fan cooling them. Glad to see you decided to use two contactors (relays) to divide the lights into two separate group of four.


It should be known that it is not enough information to only know the ampere rating of the contacts when selecting a lighting contactor. Unless you want the contacts to weld closed without notice, you must know the shutoff capacity of the contacts, otherwise referred to as current on break. The breaking (or disconnecting) capacity is always much, much lower than the full load rating (in this case the contactor in question has a 30 amp rating) and because you would be loading each contact to roughly 27 amps (if you take Stevie51's advice and use a DPST relay in the way you mentioned [6-240V outlets on each pair of contacts] you would definitely be expecting the contacts to eventually fail from repetitive excessive arcing. 
It is for this reason that contactors are never even loaded to 50% of their rated output.
The preceding message was not a series of opinions rather a logical chain of facts from a Master Electrician.


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## contraptionated (Aug 9, 2013)

Stevie51 said:


> The amperage of the ballast is usually stated on the ballast. In absent of that data, the rule of thumb is: one amp per 100 watts @ 120 volts, or .5 amp per 100 watts @ 240 volts. Thus for every 1000 watts ballast operating on 240 volts it would be 5 amps per ballast. Now many of you may think he is fine and dandy to run up to ten 1000 watts ballasts on a 60 amp panel, but I have no idea (nor the experience) as to how sensitive the circuit breaker feeding that many ballasts is to the in-rush current during the first second (which is the length of time for the current to complete 60 full cycles). Perhaps someone with a nickname of "Power Strip Charlie", who motto is "no grow room is complete without a power strip" and have tripped more breakers in a year than what most of us have trip in a lifetime, can give us his expertise. I would think one would want to start out with a plan they believe might have a chance to reliably work.


 Its close but it will work. 114/2=57 on each phase. Inrush current is not a factor with ballasts only heavy duty motors and large compressors have that problem to overcome, the inrush doesn't last longer than the time delay of a breaker and it will not make the breaker sensitive because the inrush is nowhere near the magnitude that would cause this problem and if it were you would also need to upsize the wire by 20%(but no such rule exists in the NEC for HID lighting) .Just make sure you are using modern breakers (they are always rated for HID). Although, you should leave a little room for future expansion by upsizing the circuit in case you want to feed anything else from this panel. P.S. it's good that you chose mag ballasts. If you chose electronic ballasts I would say no to the 60 amp panel.
The preceding was not a series of opinions rather a logical chain of facts from somebody who is infallible in his electrical design advice.


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## contraptionated (Aug 9, 2013)

Stevie51 said:


> The amperage of the ballast is usually stated on the ballast. In absent of that data, the rule of thumb is: one amp per 100 watts @ 120 volts, or .5 amp per 100 watts @ 240 volts. Thus for every 1000 watts ballast operating on 240 volts it would be 5 amps per ballast. Now many of you may think he is fine and dandy to run up to ten 1000 watts ballasts on a 60 amp panel, but I have no idea (nor the experience) as to how sensitive the circuit breaker feeding that many ballasts is to the in-rush current during the first second (which is the length of time for the current to complete 60 full cycles). Perhaps someone with a nickname of "Power Strip Charlie", who motto is "no grow room is complete without a power strip" and have tripped more breakers in a year than what most of us have trip in a lifetime, can give us his expertise. I would think one would want to start out with a plan they believe might have a chance to reliably work.


Hey Stevie51... There is no such rule of thumb and if there was it would be very inaccurate. If any electrician told me there was such a rule of thumb I would tell him he's just dumb and I would think he does anything to avoid simple math. Are you really suggesting that it is so difficult for somebody to divide the wattage of an appliance by their supply voltage that they would need to resort to your "rule of thumb"??? Divide the appliance wattage by the supply voltage. How's that for a rule of thumb.


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## Stevie51 (Aug 10, 2013)

its a hobby honey ! said:


> so about half way through still making my mind up on the switch's .but will keep them in groups of four starting with 8K .
> This will work like this- two lights circuits
> - 4 fans circuits, two switched to keep two rows of hoods cool , so staggered start with the lights
> and then shut off 20 mins after the light cycle .
> ...


Yes, the intent is to have one DPST contactor (relay) for every four 1000 watts ballasts, thus you will be using two contactors for eight ballasts, and should you have the urge to add more ballasts, you will be using three contactors for twelve ballasts. This will allow you to use double pole circuit breakers in the sub-panel (one double pole circuit breaker for each contactor). The debate will be whether to use 20 amps or 25 amps circuit breakers if you are not using additional circuit protection (fuses or circuit breakers) to the receptacles.


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## Vineyard (Aug 12, 2013)

Can I enclose my main house service panel and sub panel in a soon to be built grow room? The most ideal spot in my basement is the corner with the main service panel. Plan on a small grow room total 10'x 10' broken up as 4x10 along wall to corner with main entry door for storage electric exhaust fans supplies etc. then a 4x6 veg room with 4' 8 bulb t5. and a 6x6 flower room with 1000 hps. May just enclose the veg room and have flower and remaining space open. lots of exhaust and soil grow. Is it ok to enclose? Temp or humidity issues short or long term


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## contraptionated (Aug 13, 2013)

Just don't enclose any utility meters and make sure your electric service is never disconnected for non-payment (duh... of course). The reason why it is worth mentioning is because if the electric utility company ever has to come back to turn the meter back on, they might ask to see the main breaker (and/or main panel) to be sure there is no jumper from some other energized panel or generator (if there even is one). Of course it wouldn't be "code" per se but hey, who are we kidding! As long as its not a fire hazard and you're able to reach it if a circuit trips a breaker. Just make sure you have negative air pressure in the room. If there is enough positive pressure in the room (due to not starving the exhaust fans a little bit) you could start leaking grow room air through the pipe (if it isn't sealed with duct seal putty) that connects the outdoor meter and the main panel. You wouldn't want the meter reader person to smell pot in the vicinity of the meter. You don't want to confirm any suspicions whether or not that person can only be allowed to report a crime if he/she sees it with their own eyes.


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## Vineyard (Aug 13, 2013)

Sounds great. I have a medical card so I am not worried about legal issues but thanks for the advice. I will definitely ensure the main power pipe and everything is sealed well. There will be 4 foot of space btw the wall and the main and sub panels so access will be fine. Definitely plenty of negative air pressure and a carbon filter. Got the area pretty much ready to build Thanks!


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## CoreyATX420 (Aug 13, 2013)

not sure whos active on this thread anymore but maybe someone can answer. So lets say I want to raise how much power I can pull to lets say....the garage. lets say I want my garage to safely be able to pull 6,000 watts . How do I go about getting thi done with my power company? anything I should say like power tools , fridge , maybe im setting up a personal home office etc.


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## its a hobby honey ! (Aug 13, 2013)

You tell them it gets cold in the garage so you need two heater ........hold on tell the power company what !!!! LOL 
but if you feel you have to explain the goings on in your own man cave then feel free 
here is a short list of the top of my head things that can draw big wup 

welder 

compressor 

lathe 

plasma cutter 

water heater 

AC 

regards


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## Know One (Aug 13, 2013)

This is probably very simple to an electrician type, however, It's driving me bananas so any ones help is appreciated. 
I got a Main Control Unit for 120V or 240V.
After hooking up and wiring, the new ballast does not seem to be dimming. 
Anyone have an idea why? Does polarity have anything to do with it. Is this wired properly?
Below are images of ballast and connecter unit.
Thanks in advance.


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## contraptionated (Aug 14, 2013)

If the lamp is lighting it must be wired properly. I'm assuming that you compared the brightness of the lamp in contrast to a known to be working properly dimmed lamp. If you are certain that there is no reduction of lumen output when using the variable selector switch, then I would suggest turning the power off on 2 ballasts ( the one that is perceived to be malfunctioning and a known to be working ballast) making sure that they are physically disconnected from the power source. Borrow (or buy) a multi-meter electrical tester. Open up both ballast casings. Measure resistance and check continuity of the malfunctioning ballast (across all terminals) and compare what you find with the functional ballast.
Sometimes the problem is visually apparent and you will not need to use a tester and fixing it could be a matter of making a connection that was forgotten at the factory. Whether or not you fix the problem, your final step in troubleshooting this electronic ballast would be to buy magnetic ballast replacements , wire those up and then throw away your electronic ballasts(including the ones that work) to save yourself the heartache of an unexpected failure (that's what electronic ballasts do eventually no matter how well you adhere to the manufacturers recommendations).


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## Know One (Aug 14, 2013)

Thanks so much for getting back as fast as you did.
I'll try those suggestions first thing I can (tomorrow) and will let you know how that works out.


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## zoslick (Aug 15, 2013)

Hi Bricktown,

I currently live in Asia with a standard electrical outlet of 220V.
I bought myself a Speedster variable fan controller that is 110V.
My 6 exhaust fan is 220V.

My question is, I would like to use the Speedster controller with my fan, but how should I connect it? 

Please take a look at the diagram I drew and see which option I should take!

Much thanks and greatly appreciated!

Doug


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## contraptionated (Aug 16, 2013)

C is the correct answer


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## Know One (Aug 17, 2013)

So... what I was told,-- if you want to set the output at a different output with the Lumatek ballasts in above post you first need to turn off and let cool for a few minutes prior to turning back on with different setting (600/750/1000/Super). 
Just wanted to throw that out.


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## CascadeCannabis (Sep 4, 2013)

Hey, so I keep tripping the breakers in my room. I don't really know much about electricity except that I know I want to run my lights at 240v and everything else at 120v. I was thinking about having a 30 amp breaker installed next to my grow room but I have absolutely no idea how to go about it. I guess what I am looking for is a very basic electrical guide for setting up a grow room that has 4 1000w lights running. Do I need to hire an electrician? HELP!!

CascadeCannabis


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## wheels619 (Sep 4, 2013)

CascadeCannabis said:


> Hey, so I keep tripping the breakers in my room. I don't really know much about electricity except that I know I want to run my lights at 240v and everything else at 120v. I was thinking about having a 30 amp breaker installed next to my grow room but I have absolutely no idea how to go about it. I guess what I am looking for is a very basic electrical guide for setting up a grow room that has 4 1000w lights running. Do I need to hire an electrician? HELP!!
> 
> CascadeCannabis


yes. yes you do. for the hooking up the actual breaker part id recommend it. you can pull in the cabling and shit on your own without a problem.


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## iFreeSki420 (Sep 13, 2013)

My washer is on a 20a circuit. If I were to run an extension cord to an Apollo 14 surge protector which is rated for 15a and 1800w, would this be safe as long as I stay under 80% of 1800w which is 1440w?

I would not run the washer when the extension cord is plugged in


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## iFreeSki420 (Sep 13, 2013)

And if not, how about just plugging the surge protector directly in with no extension cord?


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## ltecato (Sep 16, 2013)

I just got an Apollo dim-able digital ballast. I wanted to buy an inexpensive MH bulb for it at Home Depot, but the box for the bulb I was looking at says it should only be used with an ANSI S5 (don't recall exactly, maybe S5/e) ballast. I checked the ballast and the box it came in, plus looked online but couldn't find anything about Apollo ballasts in connection to the ANSI standards. But the bulbs I'm looking at all fit in mogul sockets, which is what came with the reflector I got from Apollo. Can anyone tell me if these cheaper bulbs will work with my ballast? Or tell me where to look to find out? Thanks.


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## Ro3y (Sep 17, 2013)

How to connect fuse before light?

Do i need 2 fuses to connect them parallel, on "1" and "0", or one is enough?

This type off fuse: http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/medias/global/ce/6000_6999/6200/6210/6217/621746_RB_00_FB.EPS_1000.jpg

And how much amps fuse must have?

Will 6A fuse will be enough for 4x23 clfs and 25w AC/DC converter.

I'm from Europe, we have 220V, just to mentio.


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## wheels619 (Sep 17, 2013)

ltecato said:


> I just got an Apollo dim-able digital ballast. I wanted to buy an inexpensive MH bulb for it at Home Depot, but the box for the bulb I was looking at says it should only be used with an ANSI S5 (don't recall exactly, maybe S5/e) ballast. I checked the ballast and the box it came in, plus looked online but couldn't find anything about Apollo ballasts in connection to the ANSI standards. But the bulbs I'm looking at all fit in mogul sockets, which is what came with the reflector I got from Apollo. Can anyone tell me if these cheaper bulbs will work with my ballast? Or tell me where to look to find out? Thanks.


if you arent worried about bulb life go for it. it will work just fine.


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## NoBarriers (Sep 17, 2013)

I posted a thead about this before I saw this thread so here is my question:

I have a 200 amp service and I have an dual trigger 8 light controler running 8 lights normally and a 5 ton central ac and about 8 fans running. I have had this set up running for almost one year without any problems. I recently added another four light controller on a 30 amp circuit running 2 lights for a total of only 8 lights with 2 new ballasts and I blew one leg of the main twice. Each time it took a few hours. So I took out the 4 light controler and stopped using the new ballasts and it has been running with 6 lights for 2 weeks without a problem. One of my five year old ballasts stopped working so I replaced it with one of the new ballasts and blew the main again after a few hours. I replaced the main and ballast and the rooms have been running for 32 hours without a problem.


My question is can a ballast have a short or a problem that can blow the main without blowing the 50 amp circuit that the controler is one?


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## doubletake (Sep 19, 2013)

Getting into a small warehouse soon and wanna put two 8x8 tents with two 1000 watts in each one.

My question, am I ganna burn something down by having these 4000 watts plugged into the wall for 12 hrs every day?
itsprobley more like 4500 watts with all the other shit that's ganna be going.


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## sjames853 (Oct 8, 2013)

Any ideas on how i should wire a bedroom to be capable of handling 3000 watts total. lights, ballasts, fans, and other room essentials. It will not be exceeding 3000 watts.


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## TripleMindedGee5150 (Oct 15, 2013)

Don't know if anyone is still answer questions at this thread but I have a few. 

I have an industrial t5 fixture. Cost me 0$ . I want to convert it to a switch operated lamp. It only has two free wires a white and black. I was planning on soldering a 3 prong wall plug. Since I will have it on a timer I really won't need a switch. 

That will work right.


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## socaljoe (Oct 15, 2013)

TripleMindedGee5150 said:


> Don't know if anyone is still answer questions at this thread but I have a few.
> 
> I have an industrial t5 fixture. Cost me 0$ . I want to convert it to a switch operated lamp. It only has two free wires a white and black. I was planning on soldering a 3 prong wall plug. Since I will have it on a timer I really won't need a switch.
> 
> That will work right. View attachment 2859575View attachment 2859576View attachment 2859577


Buy a 6' grounded cord and some wire nuts at home depot, connect black to black, white to white and green to the case of the light. Don't make it hard on yourself.


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## TripleMindedGee5150 (Oct 15, 2013)

socaljoe said:


> Buy a 6' grounded cord and some wire nuts at home depot, connect black to black, white to white and green to the case of the light. Don't make it hard on yourself.


Well, since you put it that way. Ahahah thanks socal! I actually might already have that here.


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## socaljoe (Oct 15, 2013)

TripleMindedGee5150 said:


> Well, since you put it that way. Ahahah thanks socal! I actually might already have that here.


Cool. Let me know if you need any help...it's pretty straightforward, but better safe than sorry when playing with electrical.


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## bobpoon (Oct 15, 2013)

socaljoe said:


> Buy a 6' grounded cord and some wire nuts at home depot, connect black to black, white to white and green to the case of the light. Don't make it hard on yourself.


I thought he wanted a switch.


Anyways, pretty sure it's code to have a quick disconnect inside the fixture these days... If not, just good practice. 

A switched light will require a junction with a feed coming in (6' cord you recommended) and a load (the light).


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## socaljoe (Oct 15, 2013)

bobpoon said:


> I thought he wanted a switch.
> 
> 
> Anyways, pretty sure it's code to have a quick disconnect inside the fixture these days... If not, just good practice.
> ...


He mentions using a timer and not needing a switch, hence my recommendation.

It is true that new fixtures come with a quick disconnect inside them...I'm not sure if there is an applicable code that requires you to retrofit a light that doesn't have one though...and I don't see a quick disconnect in his light. Good practice? Sure is, but the plug itself is a disconnecting means that renders the light disconnect redundant.


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## TripleMindedGee5150 (Oct 15, 2013)

Ya I mentioned a switch but then since I'm using a timer I won't need the switch after all.


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## Dogenzengi (Oct 16, 2013)

Hello and Thank you for the thread!
I am trying to build a hanging light and I got to a snag....
For a base I am using a 6' 12 socket wall mount usually used to supply off a wall.

I figured three wires, no problem, wish you could hear the sarcasm.
Get it home and creat my cord, I removed the female end and stripped back to expose my wires.

I look into the back of this simple strip and find its set up, wired to run to a second base.
Three wires on each end!

Can I just cap off the ones I don't need???
please help, it will be a 24 bulb hanging bar when complete.
thanks !!


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## sinner of saints (Oct 17, 2013)

simple crazy question i have an extra 10,000 watt inverter that i have never used with like a dozen 12 volt deep cycle, can i rig that up with a solar panel and a small wind turbine to recharge the bank that way i could stay off the grid simple set up just wanted someone to give me their two cent before i move forward


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## captiankush (Oct 19, 2013)

Not sure how complex my question is but here goes:

The back half of my grow space lost all power to the back wall, its not affecting any other part of the space, just the back wall, 2 wall sockets and a outdoor security light are down. Checked the breakers and all is good.

Some details:

House built in '53, everything still original
Power loss was noticed after bathroom remodel

Hopefully the experts can keep me from getting fried 

CK


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## randy679 (Oct 20, 2013)

bricktown73 said:


> This doesn't really apply to AC current for your project. In theory you would be wiring this in series, just wire the black to the black, white to the white, and if there is a green or just naked wire: green/naked to green/naked. And that is it.


another words parallel....


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## qroox (Oct 23, 2013)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...



Hey there mate.I've seen you're an electrician and i'm proud to say i'm one as well.Not a well trained tho  . Could you please make me a brief list on what i need to equip my little cabinet ? I'm thinking CFL with low cost and budget since it's my first try.I want to minimize my expenses if something does not go well.I got 2 Green-o seeds,taht are automatic.PLEASE guide me throught.I went from outdoors , to cfl to leds.I need guidaaance  Thanks in advance..!!


please get back to me with a PM or a reply here..!! Thanks


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## mahhest (Oct 29, 2013)

I got a 125W 6400K CFL up top and two 40-ish Watt 2500k CFLs on the sides, for two plants. First off hoping thats enough. I know CFLs aren't optimal but I already had alot of what I needed. I got this 65-Watt 6500k CFL with NO ballast and a mogul base. The one from Lowes...got the fixture they sold too but its at my old house as it was actually used as an outside light for a while, and I no longer have it. I do got a mogul base socket though and could wire that up but no ballast still. So my question is what am I looking for for a ballast to make this 65 watt bulb work? Or would that bulb even be overkill cuz that would take me up to 190W of just daylight compared to bout 80 of soft light. Any response would be appreciated as I'm obviously a beginner.


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## hibok (Nov 2, 2013)

Hello there,
I have a question, I want to use relays to switch on and off for lights in each room( Room A and Room B).
bulbs used are 1000watt HPS magnetic coil ballast, what specifications should I look for in relays?
I picked up 16amp relays but for some reason when the timer box is on the on position only less than half of the lights are on and when the timer box flips to the off position not all turn on; I would say room A has 5 lights that dont turn on and Room B, 7 lights dont turn on. I tried replacing on bulbs but still not turning on what I also tried was changing to 30 amp relays but the same problem. 

or can it be something else causing the problem?
they are brand new bulbs brand is trilite, if i put in an old bulb (1 year old) like phillips or solarmax it will light up when the timer flips positions on the relays.


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## ruffrider (Nov 2, 2013)

Hey guys, 
If you have any questions you can shoot them my way and ill answer the best I can. 
I'm a licensed general contractor and I've completed my first year of electrical apprenticeship im currently in the process of mastering it. 

Being a general contractor im pretty knowledge in all areas of home building/renovation (electrical, pluming, carpentry etc.) so i'll give you the best advice I can pretty much what I would do. 
I've always wanted to be an electrician and it'll save me alot of money running my own electrical so im pursuing it


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## ruffrider (Nov 2, 2013)

Dogenzengi said:


> Hello and Thank you for the thread!
> I am trying to build a hanging light and I got to a snag....
> For a base I am using a 6' 12 socket wall mount usually used to supply off a wall.
> 
> ...


I assume the wires will you be out in the open right and not behind drywall? 
If so then yeah you sure can just go ahead cap them and put some electrical tape over the caps/wire for reassurance.

Or if the hanging socket is attached to a junction box cap the wires and tape like stated then put them inside the junction box and cover it with the cap.


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## ruffrider (Nov 2, 2013)

captiankush said:


> Not sure how complex my question is but here goes:
> 
> The back half of my grow space lost all power to the back wall, its not affecting any other part of the space, just the back wall, 2 wall sockets and a outdoor security light are down. Checked the breakers and all is good.
> 
> ...


Its normal in old house for different things to use the same circuit. 
Flip off all the breakers in your panel. Sometimes a tripped breaker wont look like it even tho it is. 

Also since there was a bathroom remodel it could have been improperly rewired causing it to instantly short and trip the the breaker, also could just be loose wiring that needs to be repaired.


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## spek9 (Nov 2, 2013)

captiankush said:


> Not sure how complex my question is but here goes:
> 
> The back half of my grow space lost all power to the back wall, its not affecting any other part of the space, just the back wall, 2 wall sockets and a outdoor security light are down. Checked the breakers and all is good.
> 
> ...


Check the GFCI in the bathroom. If this is a new reno and was done properly, the outlet in the bathroom would have been replaced with a ground fault. Perhaps they tied into that somehow. Check to see that the Test button isn't engaged (to do so, press the 'Reset' button.

-spek


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## captiankush (Nov 2, 2013)

ruffrider said:


> Its normal in old house for different things to use the same circuit.
> Flip off all the breakers in your panel. Sometimes a tripped breaker wont look like it even tho it is.
> 
> Also since there was a bathroom remodel it could have been improperly rewired causing it to instantly short and trip the the breaker, also could just be loose wiring that needs to be repaired.





spek9 said:


> Check the GFCI in the bathroom. If this is a new reno and was done properly, the outlet in the bathroom would have been replaced with a ground fault. Perhaps they tied into that somehow. Check to see that the Test button isn't engaged (to do so, press the 'Reset' button.
> 
> -spek


spek & ruff, I appreciate the replies 

problem was was due to an incomplete circuit. I shutdown breakers and checked the outlet nearest that part of the house ( u guessed it, in the bathroom) and found the ground disconnected. Reconnected the ground, turn on the breakers and I am good to go.

CK


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## ruffrider (Nov 4, 2013)

captiankush said:


> spek & ruff, I appreciate the replies
> 
> problem was was due to an incomplete circuit. I shutdown breakers and checked the outlet nearest that part of the house ( u guessed it, in the bathroom) and found the ground disconnected. Reconnected the ground, turn on the breakers and I am good to go.
> 
> CK


I figured i'd be something like that, you'd be surprised how many calls we get about shady wiring. Shit some people just snip their wires and leave them live behind the wall no caps or nothing. 

Glad to hear your back up and running tho buddy, best of luck to you and your grow !


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## Baited breath (Nov 7, 2013)

View attachment 2885491Hi Bricktown73
How would I wire up 5sockets ouvt of a bathroom light unit so that they connect with 4 larger CFL mounts as per the pictures attached. They seem to be wired in parallel. Should I earth the lot to the metal box casing? I had the 4 x 48 wayters runnimg nice but want to add 5 x 23 watts for a total of 307 watts withoit burning myView attachment 2885490 house down.


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## hibok (Nov 7, 2013)

Baited breath said:


> View attachment 2885491Hi Bricktown73
> How would I wire up 5sockets ouvt of a bathroom light unit so that they connect with 4 larger CFL mounts as per the pictures attached. They seem to be wired in parallel. Should I earth the lot to the metal box casing? I had the 4 x 48 wayters runnimg nice but want to add 5 x 23 watts for a total of 307 watts withoit burning myView attachment 2885489View attachment 2885490View attachment 2885489 house down.


the power source cable probably 14/2 AWG cooper, you just need to bond the metal house to the copper bare wire, which should be bonded to device box ( box where the switch is) that from that device box to the panel. than you connect the white / neutral, to the sliver screw / side shell of the light, the black/live/hot will than be connect to the bronze screw/ middle of the shell. that you just connect the other lights in series. remember to have the power off from the main panel before doing any work with electricity or get a professional.

other notes : 1.6 amps for the original four and by going up another 5 lights for a total of 307 watts you will be using 2.6 amps. I dont think you will be popping any breakers, i would think it the ciruit would be running on a 15 amp breaker. which gives you 9.4 amps for other devices to playing around with if you stay in code of 80% load of the 15 amp breaker.

questions are you adding those five in separate metal boxes or in the same housing?
if serparate you will have to bond each metal box from that big box. see picture


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## powerslide (Nov 11, 2013)

I have what has always been my veg and flower room just always went back and forth between the two. I am going to try to get two runs in this winter a little bit perpetual and want to add a seperate room. Now i dont have enough power/amps whatever on the 110 side. I have a 240 plug for my welder in my shop and want to build a small panel to plug into it to run the "veg" room and leave the 110 to the flower room. My flower room is a cellar and i dont want to deal w/ pulling 240 into it because its already setup. Anyone point me to something that shows me how to build a panel? I have lots of car knowledge and DYI skill but electric scares me.


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## powerslide (Nov 13, 2013)

No electricians here?



powerslide said:


> I have what has always been my veg and flower room just always went back and forth between the two. I am going to try to get two runs in this winter a little bit perpetual and want to add a seperate room. Now i dont have enough power/amps whatever on the 110 side. I have a 240 plug for my welder in my shop and want to build a small panel to plug into it to run the "veg" room and leave the 110 to the flower room. My flower room is a cellar and i dont want to deal w/ pulling 240 into it because its already setup. Anyone point me to something that shows me how to build a panel? I have lots of car knowledge and DYI skill but electric scares me.


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## ruffrider (Nov 15, 2013)

powerslide said:


> want to build a small panel to plug into it to run the veg room


I don't get the question your trying to ask? 

like convert 240v to 110?


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## Abiqua (Nov 16, 2013)

I have a small voltage DC question about fans and potentiometers.

I am running a microcab, sorry big boys, need to learn before I step up!

Is there a way to run two fans in parallel off one power supply and separating the circuit so that only one fan is controlled with a 1k ohm pot, while the other fan just uses the 12v signal unencumbered? Or will each fan need a pot? Or....plan b with LM317's?

Right now I am rewiring it, but the current config has the power supply, 12v exhaust fan and 12v interior fan wired after the pot all running into a terminal strip to connect in parallel, but both fans are being voltage controlled and terribly [5k ohm pot][way too high of restistance, I know, I asked for advice and then realized the mistake.] 

Specs:
12V 500mA power supply
12v Fans .215 mA apiece
5k ohm pot [I have 1k ohm pots] [These are way overkill I realize for these specs, but the only affordable pots I could find with 500mA ratings.

Thank you...hopefully that is not too illegible


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## Stevie51 (Nov 16, 2013)

Abiqua said:


> Is there a way to run two fans in parallel off one power supply and separating the circuit so that only one fan is controlled with a 1k ohm pot, while the other fan just uses the 12v signal unencumbered?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes you can do it that way. Assuming that your potentiometer has three terminals, connect one outer terminal to the 12 volts power, and connect the other outer terminal to the fan wire. Connect the center terminal to one of the outer terminal using a jumper wire. If you feel that the 1k ohm pot has too much resistance, you can simply change that resistance value by adding a resistor (rated for 3 watts) in parallel across the outer terminals of the pot to give you a lower maximum resistance.


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## Abiqua (Nov 18, 2013)

Stevie51 said:


> Abiqua said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a way to run two fans in parallel off one power supply and separating the circuit so that only one fan is controlled with a 1k ohm pot, while the other fan just uses the 12v signal unencumbered?
> ...


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 18, 2013)

Is this going to work? Feeding it 125 amps. Running 4kw veg and 16kw flower. 7 tons of split ductless. Phoenix 110 dehu. Fans & blowers. The works.


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 18, 2013)

powerslide said:


> No electricians here?


I could build you something. I can't really walk one through that safely.


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 18, 2013)

iFreeSki420 said:


> My washer is on a 20a circuit. If I were to run an extension cord to an Apollo 14 surge protector which is rated for 15a and 1800w, would this be safe as long as I stay under 80% of 1800w which is 1440w?
> 
> I would not run the washer when the extension cord is plugged in


Might work. Not safe. Deviced with 14 gauge wire won't be adequately protected by the 20 amp overcurrent protection.


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## Stevie51 (Nov 18, 2013)

Abiqua said:


> Stevie51 said:
> 
> 
> > Stevie here is my diagram with the 5k pot. I can't isolate the interior fan, both fans are still acting as one, wired in paralell, here is my diagram.
> ...


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## spek9 (Nov 18, 2013)

Stevie51 said:


> Abiqua said:
> 
> 
> > Red wire from 12 volts power supply to terminal #1 on the pot. Red wire from fan to terminal #3 on the pot. Jumper wire from terminal #2 to terminal #3 on the pot. Black wire from the fan to the black wire from the 12 volts power supply. There should be no black wire going to the pot.
> ...


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## hibok (Nov 18, 2013)

powerslide said:


> No electricians here?


details on your veg room or the new room you want 240volts
ie. wattage of each bulb. how many bulbs, are you going to need other outlets for say fans, exhaust fans, heaters, AC, pumps. etc....
from there we can determine your demand load and see what we can hook up.


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## Manystacks (Nov 18, 2013)

Hey guys, migrated here from another site. A site that blames broad mites on everything. lol

I have always been fortunate to have sparkys very close to me. I have relocated and now I am dealing with the "f....I shouldve watched him.." mode.

I have a Titan Helios 8 light controller. Now in the past I have always used HPH-8s from Sent, and there has always been just three wire to connect ( green black white). In this particular location, the Titan is what I was dealt.

When I open the titan box, I am presented with 4 ...the green, obviously ground. But, then there is 3 more places to place wiring. I am confused and wanting to know why there is 4, including the ground hook up? Of those three open spots after i connect my ground, does it matter where my Black, and White wires go?

Here is the PDF manual to the titan helios 8, i understand if you dont want to click something from someone new.
http://www.titancontrols.net/media/8221/702677_helios8_instructions.pdf At the bottom you see the wiring diagram. They dont show the ground, the ground I understand. Just want to understand why there is those three? I always have just used Ground-green and a black and white. That diagram shows 3, not including ground. Sorry just trying to be specific and im becoming long winded lol


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## hibok (Nov 19, 2013)

Manystacks said:


> Hey guys, migrated here from another site. A site that blames broad mites on everything. lol
> 
> I have always been fortunate to have sparkys very close to me. I have relocated and now I am dealing with the "f....I shouldve watched him.." mode.
> 
> ...


its a 240 volt system, two hots , one neutral. you got the one wit bare end?

and dont forget taht your running 240 system so make sure your ballast are set to 240 else your 120 volt ballast will make a loud noise and a little cloud will form. leaving a burnt smell.


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## Manystacks (Nov 19, 2013)

hibok said:


> its a 240 volt system, two hots , one neutral. you got the one wit bare end?
> 
> and dont forget taht your running 240 system so make sure your ballast are set to 240 else your 120 volt ballast will make a loud noise and a little cloud will form. leaving a burnt smell.


I understand that. One with bare end? You mean left open, not used? 
All my shits to 240, Im just confused why they offer 4 slots for wiring(including ground) when all you need is 3, including ground. Is it for mere convenience when installing wire?


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## hibok (Nov 19, 2013)

two are for the hot, 120 volt, 120 volt , neutral, and ground. 

50 amps you will be running a 8/3 AWG ( black , red, white, and ground)


does it look something like


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## Abiqua (Nov 19, 2013)

Stevie51 said:


> Abiqua said:
> 
> 
> > Red wire from 12 volts power supply to terminal #1 on the pot. Red wire from fan to terminal #3 on the pot. Jumper wire from terminal #2 to terminal #3 on the pot. Black wire from the fan to the black wire from the 12 volts power supply. There should be no black wire going to the pot. Why are you using the 5k pot? You should be using the 1k pot.
> ...


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 19, 2013)

hibok said:


> two are for the hot, 120 volt, 120 volt , neutral, and ground.
> 
> 50 amps you will be running a 8/3 AWG ( black , red, white, and ground)
> 
> ...



#8 wire is only good for 40 amps. Need #6 for a 50.


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## Manystacks (Nov 19, 2013)

hibok said:


> two are for the hot, 120 volt, 120 volt , neutral, and ground.
> 
> 50 amps you will be running a 8/3 AWG ( black , red, white, and ground)
> 
> ...


This shit is tough for me to understand man...With my sentinel hph-8s my elecs have always just used Ground and Black and white. Why with this titan do I need 4 wires? Why is 4 an option?
Its a 50 amp breaker and I have always used 6/3 sow. 

Yea thats the same diagram, but doesn't show ground* of course.


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 19, 2013)

Manystacks said:


> This shit is tough for me to understand man...With my sentinel hph-8s my elecs have always just used Ground and Black and white. Why with this titan do I need 4 wires? Why is 4 an option?
> Its a 50 amp breaker and I have always used 6/3 sow.
> 
> Yea thats the same diagram, but doesn't show breaker of course.


The neutral is required if say a timer or contactor coils need 120v.


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## hibok (Nov 19, 2013)

our 6/3 will have a black(120volt), red(120volt) , white(neutral), bare(ground). your going to add a 50 amp breaker to your panel. run your 6/3 from your panel to the sentinel. your 50 amp breaker will have two screws one one for the black and one for the red. the 50 amp breaker has two poles which connect to each 120volt phase of the bus bar.


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## Manystacks (Nov 19, 2013)

SnapsProvolone said:


> The neutral is required if say a timer or contactor coils need 120v.


Not sure I fully understand. My set up is ..50amp - to the Titan 8 - to my Sentinel Hid, which is my timer, where I plug my trigger plugs from my titan to ( this is an 8 light flower). Like I have said, only have used sentinel hph8s, and have only ever used 3 wires total (6/3). This titan shows four slots including ground. Do I disregard one of the slots? Sorry im thick and I need to be completely clear.


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## Stevie51 (Nov 19, 2013)

Manystacks said:


> Not sure I fully understand. My set up is ..50amp - to the Titan 8 - to my Sentinel Hid, which is my timer, where I plug my trigger plugs from my titan to ( this is an 8 light flower). Like I have said, only have used sentinel hph8s, and have only ever used 3 wires total (6/3). This titan shows four slots including ground. Do I disregard one of the slots? Sorry im thick and I need to be completely clear.


First off we need to verify a few things. With nothing wired to the light controller, plug the trigger cord into a 120 volts wall receptacle and listen for a "click" indicating that the contactor (relay coil)) has energized. Unplug the trigger cord from the wall receptacle. Using an ohmmeter check to see if there is continuity from the middle terminal (neutral in the diagram) to the ground slot in the receptacles on the lighting controller. If there is no continuity, you will not be using the neutral terminal. I hate to say this, but I would almost be tempted to break the "Warranty is void if broken" sticker to look inside the light controller. Titan didn't mention anything about having any kind of overcurrent protection inside the lighting controller to the receptacles for the ballast cords.


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## powerslide (Nov 19, 2013)

ruffrider said:


> I don't get the question your trying to ask?
> 
> like convert 240v to 110?


Exactly! I have a 240 welder plug in my shop. My shop 110 powers my "flower" room. I have a 240 welder plug and I want to be able to plug a small panel into it that has 110 outlets. Essential creating another avenue for 110 power but being able to unplug it and still use my welder. I think I've seen it done before.


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 19, 2013)

Manystacks said:


> Not sure I fully understand. My set up is ..50amp - to the Titan 8 - to my Sentinel Hid, which is my timer, where I plug my trigger plugs from my titan to ( this is an 8 light flower). Like I have said, only have used sentinel hph8s, and have only ever used 3 wires total (6/3). This titan shows four slots including ground. Do I disregard one of the slots? Sorry im thick and I need to be completely clear.


What's the difficulty? You have a three wire receptacle? 

Use a jumper to connect ground lug to the neutral lug on a three wire. Like on a range.


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 19, 2013)

> Exactly! I have a 240 welder plug in my shop. My shop 110 powers my "flower" room. I have a 240 welder plug and I want to be able to plug a small panel into it that has 110 outlets. Essential creating another avenue for 110 power but being able to unplug it and still use my welder. I think I've seen it done before.


Can be done with a subpanel to break down the 50 amp feed.


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## hibok (Nov 19, 2013)

powerslide said:


> Exactly! I have a 240 welder plug in my shop. My shop 110 powers my "flower" room. I have a 240 welder plug and I want to be able to plug a small panel into it that has 110 outlets. Essential creating another avenue for 110 power but being able to unplug it and still use my welder. I think I've seen it done before.


whats your amperage of the overcurrent device (breaker) that the welder out let is currently wired up to?


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## Manystacks (Nov 19, 2013)

ty all, got it handled

How? Bought my sparky, thats 2 hrs away a hotel room and a tee time in the morn haha.


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 19, 2013)

Yeah we do travel if rewarded. LoL


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## Stevie51 (Nov 19, 2013)

Abiqua said:


> Stevie51 said:
> 
> 
> > ^ The 5k was what I was given initially and I wasn't exactly sure what I needed. I have 1k pots as replacements, so I am soldering tomorrow morning, 1st thing.
> ...


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## powerslide (Nov 19, 2013)

Looks like a 50. It's a 3 prong plug


hibok said:


> whats your amperage of the overcurrent device (breaker) that the welder out let is currently wired up to?


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 19, 2013)

powerslide said:


> Looks like a 50. It's a 3 prong plug


Ok. By code your subpanel needs an EGC that's fed back to the main panel. This is to prevent the panel housing from becoming "hot" in the event of an open neutral as well as providing a pathway for surge dissipation on your resulting 120v circuits.

Question: is there a ground (bare copper) conductor in the outlet box behind the three prong receptacle? It needs to become a four prong.


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## hibok (Nov 19, 2013)

Powerslide, so you have 40amps to play with for an 80% demand factor. 

from here you can pick up a 1 phase 50 amp subpanel, 6/3 wire or if your hardware store has a standalone 240 plug that the same as the configuration of your welding plug comes in 6ft i believe, and two 20 amp breakers
EZPZ ?


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 19, 2013)

hibok said:


> Powerslide, so you have 40amps to play with for an 80% demand factor.
> 
> from here you can pick up a 1 phase 50 amp subpanel, 6/3 wire or if your hardware store has a standalone 240 plug that the same as the configuration of your welding plug comes in 6ft i believe, and two 20 amp breakers
> EZPZ ?


LoL. I can tell your not a licensed ec. Just three wire feeding a sp w/o an EGC is begging for all kinds of troubles. Stick to growing pot.


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## hibok (Nov 19, 2013)

if your talking about bonding all metal devices than the receptacle is already bonding and should be which is returned back to the main panel. so basically he would be matching each wire to maintain continuity to each phase.


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 19, 2013)

hibok said:


> if your talking about bonding all metal devices than the receptacle is already bonding and should be which is returned back to the main panel. so basically he would be matching each wire to maintain continuity to each phase.


I gotta tell the guys this at work tomorrow they will laugh their asses off.


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 19, 2013)

What year is your nec code book? 1955? We stopped bonding with neutrals to chassis long ago.

just because you seen it done a certain way does not mean is the proper way to do it. Especially if a hearing to any remotely modern code standards.


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## PhychicTurtle (Nov 20, 2013)

Hi , im in the process of getting and setting up 4 CFL bulbs in a closet , 2 on a top shelf and two on the bottom. I was wondering what the best way to wire them out of the closet it? Also can the 4 of them be wired to the same plug? 
Cheers.


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## Abiqua (Nov 21, 2013)

Stevie51 said:


> Abiqua said:
> 
> 
> > Yes the diagram is correct. As you are perhaps well aware of, the resistance of the 1k pot is way too much. We could replace the pot with one of another value, or we could simulate a lower-value pot by placing a resistor in _parallel_ with it, diminishing its maximum obtainable resistance. Placing a 100 ohms 3 watt resistor connected from terminal #1 to terminal #3, will decrease the span of the pot to 91 ohms, but that span will become non-linear.
> ...


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## Abiqua (Nov 21, 2013)

PhychicTurtle said:


> Hi , im in the process of getting and setting up 4 CFL bulbs in a closet , 2 on a top shelf and two on the bottom. I was wondering what the best way to wire them out of the closet it? Also can the 4 of them be wired to the same plug?
> Cheers.


Are you wiring them to be plugged in or hardwired? 

My 1st mini cab has [5] 110v single bulb[e27] fixtures [two wire] all wired in parallel going to 1 plug. Check out the link in my sig. I initially wired them all up for CFL, but ditched them all, for LED bulbs. I used 14ga. which is overkill, but handles 10A-15A. 

Peace.


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## PhychicTurtle (Nov 22, 2013)

I want to just plug them in yeah. With as little wires as possible , is there any fire hazard in having this setup with the cfls? I know there's not much heat but if I have 4 bulbs plugged in 24/7 on a timer with 18 hours of light a day is this ok?


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 22, 2013)

Do a search for medium base light bulb stringer.

Get the style with an integrated breaker.


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## Stevie51 (Nov 22, 2013)

Abiqua said:


> Stevie51 said:
> 
> 
> > Yep, I think resistance of a 12v .215 fan is just about 45 ohms. I can't find lower resistor's with around 100 ohms and handling 500ma...... at least for cheap. 1k was the lowest linear resistor I could find. There were some 500k audio resistors too, non linear.
> ...


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## Abiqua (Nov 24, 2013)

Stevie51 said:


> Abiqua said:
> 
> 
> > The most current the fan will draw @ 12 volts is .215 amp. That is less than 3 watts. The purpose of the potentiometer is to add a variable amount of resistance to create a variable decrease of voltage to the fan. The voltage is what control the fan speed. As the voltage drop, so does the amperage drop. You do realize that too much resistance can cause too much of a voltage drop and stall the fan. Ideally it would be nice to have a potentiometer that is linear and have just the right amount resistance to utilize the full sweep of the potentiometer knob without stalling the fan, but I understand that isn't an option for you now. That's the reason I suggested adding a 3 watts resistor (available from Radio Shack for $1.89) in parallel across the potentiometer. To calculate resistance in parallel use the formula: (R1 x R2) divided by (R1 + R2). Because the resistor has a fix value, and the potentiometer has variable value through its span, the resulting resistance will become non-linear. As I have no experience doing this project, and thus don't know the voltage drop you are trying to achieve, the 100 ohms resistor I had suggested may not be the ideal resistor in ohms. I do hope you realize that what we are doing is "improvising". The decision rest with you as to what is necessary.
> ...


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## Abiqua (Nov 24, 2013)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Do a search for medium base light bulb stringer.
> 
> Get the style with an integrated breaker.


Can you just use an inline block fuse at say 5a's? Wired in between the 1st light and the plug?


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 24, 2013)

Sure if you dont mind changing a fuse instead of resetting a breaker. should only become an issue if the bulbs installed were drawing too much current. Key is fuse amperage is not to exceed the ampacity of the wire guage used. And fuse the hot leg not the neutral. Nice thing about a stringer is it allows someone to have something ul/etl approved.


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## Abiqua (Nov 26, 2013)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Sure if you dont mind changing a fuse instead of resetting a breaker. should only become an issue if the bulbs installed were drawing too much current. Key is fuse amperage is not to exceed the ampacity of the wire guage used. And fuse the hot leg not the neutral. Nice thing about a stringer is it allows someone to have something ul/etl approved.


Snaps Big UPs! Thank you........bear with me. As you can probably tell Im green but I just need to learn and ask more questions. 
I really like the stringer idea, however, I can't seem to find one to fit my space and that is half the battle. I am a micro-cab grower. 

I have [5] 2 wire light bulb adapters wired in parallel. I believe it is 12 ga. single strand 15A wire. The wires run into a lil terminal strip and then into a Two plug outlet. I have a 15A general fuse holder and I have a 5A cartridge for it. 
I am running all LED bulbs @80mA, lol. 400mA, so it will barely pull over a full amp, even if I add in 10 more bulbs [might add 2]. 

Is all this shit unsafe? I have made sure to coat all my leads and shrink wrap and solder where I can or terminal strip the rest. Should I try and run a lower cartridge fuse, like 1-3a? that should be well above the threshold of nuisance blows?


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## Abiqua (Nov 26, 2013)

SnapsProvolone said:


> And fuse the hot leg not the neutral. Nice thing about a stringer is it allows someone to have something ul/etl approved.


Like I mentioned in the 1st post, like the stringer idea. My 2nd cab needs 12 bulbs, so these could be ideal. 

But could you elaborate a lil for me enough to research at least, on what ul/etl is basically going to do? I imagine fire-proofing, code and ??? is included as a rating from Underwriters L?


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 26, 2013)

Ul / etl certification simply certifies the device is safe to use. They abuse products to ensure they fail in a safe manner.

You can shorten a stringer.


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## Vansterdam (Nov 27, 2013)

Can someone explain the Ferrite Clamps to block or contain RFI noise. Do i just need to clamp 1 unit to the cord leading from the ballast to the light? What size clamp do I need for a 16 gauge cord?

I had a visit from the cable guy a couple of years ago, I'm not looking forward to another knock on the door...

Cheers.


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## weedizard (Nov 27, 2013)

Hey. How can I setup a PC cooler to work? Thanks!


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 27, 2013)

Vansterdam said:


> Can someone explain the Ferrite Clamps to block or contain RFI noise. Do i just need to clamp 1 unit to the cord leading from the ballast to the light? What size clamp do I need for a 16 gauge cord?
> 
> I had a visit from the cable guy a couple of years ago, I'm not looking forward to another knock on the door...
> 
> Cheers.


Its a ferrite RFI Supression Choke. Available at Radio Shack. Put one on the ballast end of the feed to the lamp.


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## Vansterdam (Nov 28, 2013)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Its a ferrite RFI Supression Choke. Available at Radio Shack. Put one on the ballast end of the feed to the lamp.


So I only need one, thanks for the info. Can you tell me what size? I've been tying to find the diameter of a 16 gauge wire, but I'm just not getting it. Chart shows 0.0502 and 1.3mm, but that doesn't make sense to me. The units I see online come in 7mm, 8mm, etc...cheers


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 28, 2013)

16 gauge is the individual conductor size sans insulation. Insulation thickness varies. Just measure cord diameter and use that to size the choke.

It has biggest effect on ballast end of lamp feex however a little added supression can be had from chokes on both ends.


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## bird mcbride (Nov 28, 2013)

Most computer power bars come with noise suppresion, anti-surge and breaker.


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## Buzerek (Nov 28, 2013)

Most of you guys looking for extra 240V power in average house when facing inadequate power and potential danger of circuit overload relax, there is an easy solution applicable in most cases most "experts" and "electricians" on this thread are missing.

If your grow house has any of following: Central AC, Electric water heater, Electric kitchen range, electric dryer, AND any of those are not used, or INFREQUENTLY used you have a potential of plenty 240V power WITHOUT ANY rewiring, subpanels and other nonsense suggested.

Modern digital HPS ballasts run on 120/240 automatically switchable just by applying proper cord with either 120V or 240V plug.

Here is your solution:

1.
Central A/C (I assume not used in winter) average 10KW (mine is 5 ton AC draws 20KW). 
Even if yours is 3 ton central A/C you can run 8 1000W lights out of this circuit when AC is not used obviously.

2 Water heater (240V) 4500W to 5500W . Easy 4 1000 hps lights at 4500W.

3 Kitchen range (10KW) easy 8 1000W Hps lights.

4 Electric dryer (3kW +) 3 1000w HPS lights 

All it takes is proper extension cord, ASSUMING you are not using those appliances at the time.

So even if you live in the house you are growing how often you use Clothes dryer?

When you are flowering you can run lights at night. How often you are using kitchen range at night?

Or even better, put your water heater on timer (off when you are flowering) and you have easy 4 1000W HPS here.

How often you are using AC in winter, spring or fall depending where you live? Central AC is the biggest power hog in the house, so it is a biggest potential for those hungry 1000W HPS lights.

My house is not the most modern house, built in 1978, only 150 amps panel, but I could run easy 10 KW + of lights in summer or 30 KW in winter if I wanted to. THATS 10 - 30 fricken 1000 watters !!!

Summing up if you run your lights on 240V you can free all 120V circuits to run fans, controllers, pumps which run on 120V, but that should be no issue since those devices draw a fraction of power the big HPS lights require.


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 28, 2013)

Convert range, dryer and hot water to gas. That's what I did so that my 150amp main could run 20kW plus cooling.


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 28, 2013)

Buzerek said:


> Most of you guys looking for extra 240V power in average house when facing inadequate power and potential danger of circuit overload relax, there is an easy solution applicable in most cases most "experts" and "electricians" on this thread are missing.
> 
> If your grow house has any of following: Central AC, Electric water heater, Electric kitchen range, electric dryer, AND any of those are not used, or INFREQUENTLY used you have a potential of plenty 240V power WITHOUT ANY rewiring, subpanels and other nonsense suggested.
> 
> ...




Also most dryer receptacles are 30 amp so good for 5kW not just 3.

If you can run 30kW in lights on a 150 amp main your the man. Mains usually start tripping when load pulls more than 80% continuously. Your also failing to account for cooling, circulation, and other electrical requirements.

Base your math on the ampacity of the circuit. Volts x Amps x 0.8 = Usable Power in Watts
Check breaker feeding circuit, lets say 30 amps on a 240v dryer receptacle. 
240 x 30 x 0.8 = 5760 watts so its good for five thousand watters.


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## Buzerek (Nov 28, 2013)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Convert range, dryer and hot water to gas. That's what I did so that my 150amp main could run 20kW plus cooling.


Here we go, common sense why bother with extra panels, circuits etc. Conversion to gas will gain you more power than you need in average residential house, there is always an option to partial conversion as the needs require to avoid extensive costs.

My point is you can SAFELY get more 240V power to run high wattage (lights) application out of existing conditions with some creativity. Just run 12 - 8 gauge extension cord equal on circuit breaker value easy made of ROMEX 

Obviously electricians will not advice this simple solution for an obvious reason $$$$$$ missing their pockets.

In average US house 240V power accounts for 50 % ++ of total consumption/load. In my case is about 65% of total power available. And is being used selectively like during night water heater, clothes dryer, kitchen range is not used, lot of potential for creative minds.

Just make extension cord of romex proper gauge conductor, 240V plugs, (by proper gouge I mean 80% of load of protected particular circuit), thats all !!

Pennies on a $$$$ compared to fees charged by electricians and "experts" for major work on your electrical system.


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## SnapsProvolone (Nov 28, 2013)

Buzerek said:


> Here we go, common sense why bother with extra panels, circuits etc. Conversion to gas will gain you more power than you need in average residential house, there is always an option to partial conversion as the needs require to avoid extensive costs.
> 
> My point is you can SAFELY get more 240V power to run high wattage (lights) application out of existing conditions with some creativity. Just run 12 - 8 gauge extension cord equal on circuit breaker value easy made of ROMEX
> 
> ...


The reason we don't recommend this extension cord solution is because it's not nec compliant by any means and therefore by making such recommendations we could loose our license.


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## Buzerek (Nov 28, 2013)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Also most dryer receptacles are 30 amp so good for 5kW not just 3.
> 
> If you can run 30kW in lights on a 150 amp main your the man. Mains usually start tripping when load pulls more than 80% continuously. Your also failing to account for cooling, circulation, and other electrical requirements.
> 
> ...


My post was about an idea, not splitting hairs. You admitted in your post that I underestimated dryer potential, you need to do your math and apply 80% total capacity main load to be on the safe side.


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## Buzerek (Nov 28, 2013)

SnapsProvolone said:


> The reason we don't recommend this extension cord solution is because it's not nec compliant by any means and therefore by making such recommendations we could loose our license.


 if the solution is SAFE that's a solution, any other "solution" is money in the pocket of parties involved in "solution".

Dude you sound like an electrician trying to protect your territory. I have  master degree in electronics/ DC/ AC theory, Government, unions and "special interest groups" have no meanings in my book.


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## BadgerBuds (Dec 2, 2013)

Hey Bricktown or anyone,

Just wanted to say that your electrical forum has been very helpful for me. I am wondering if I may ask you a couple questions...
I am new on RIU but very familiar with growing high-quality medicine. 
I am currently in the process of switching from a 4000w room to getting two 1000w switchable ballasts and two rooms. This will allow me have two (oppositely timed) rooms of 2000w each right next to each other-with only 2 ballasts! I am going to get 240v cords for this instead of 120v (and correct me if I'm wrong please) because that will be less stress on the system and maybe lower costs. 
So my concern is that I am going to use my dryer outlet (220v,30amp,3wire) and I would like to use a y-adapter extension cord coming out of that that is commonly used for generators-similar to the link: (http://www.amazon.com/Conntek-YL1430520S-Generator-Adapter-Connector/dp/B002MGJ2F4). Will the 240v cords for the ballasts be too much for this cord AND should I use the 120v cords instead? I would rather be over concerned than under concerned. 

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 2, 2013)

BadgerBuds said:


> Hey Bricktown or anyone,
> 
> Just wanted to say that your electrical forum has been very helpful for me. I am wondering if I may ask you a couple questions...
> I am new on RIU but very familiar with growing high-quality medicine.
> ...


That cord has a twist lock plug. It's not going to work with the dryer receptacle.


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## BadgerBuds (Dec 2, 2013)

I just said one similar to it... couldn't find the exact one I've already bought from the hardware store online.


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## FarmerGee (Dec 6, 2013)

That's awesome that you offer your advice like that. My question is....Is there a photosensor that I can wire for my co2. What I want to do is plug my co2 into a photo-controlled outlet that kills the circuit at night. All the photocells I find are dusk to dawn. Is there one that works in reverse that I can use? On the cheap us my idea. I'd hate to spend $70+ for a co2 contoller when a photocell costs $10 or less.


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 6, 2013)

Why not just plug CO2 into the lighting timer?


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## FarmerGee (Dec 7, 2013)

I wish it was that easy snaps. I use a dual analog repltile day/night timer. One timer bank does my hps and fan for light, my other bank has 4 outlets. 2 on and 2 off..when the timer trips the 2 that are on to off, the other two that are off turn on.....so my carbon fan and intake fan are on that second bank. Timer turns fans off and co2 on, and vise versa. So right now, the fans run unnecessarily all night. If I plug my co2 into a photocontrolled outlet, I can turn the fans off at night which would power the co2 but be cut by the photocell. All the photocells I can find are for security lighting...which woukd power on my co2 at night.

QUOTE=SnapsProvolone;9911593]Why not just plug CO2 into the lighting timer?[/QUOTE]


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## bird mcbride (Dec 7, 2013)

Use a relay with the photocell that has contacts that are off when polarized and on when not polarized


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## FarmerGee (Dec 7, 2013)

I'm beginning to think thats my only option. I was trying to avoid additional electrical connections with just getting the correct photocell for my application. They must make them. Has anyone disected a co2 controller? Is there a relay or just a dawn to dusk photocell?


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 7, 2013)

This photo switch has invertable logic.. kick it to LIGHT = ON


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## FarmerGee (Dec 7, 2013)

http://m.petco.com/product/109802/Zilla-24-7-Dual-Analog-Timer-Power-Center.aspx?cm_mmc=CSEMGoogleAdExtProd -_-Pet Supplies-_-Zilla-_-1238612&gclid=CNTUgJronrsCFcQDOgod_j0AfQ

It actually a pretty badass timer that I use. They dont make mine anymore with the dual timers, but this ones similiar. $29.95 at pet stores and it'll run your intake/exhaust fans and co2 regulator.... I lied...this timer is dual analog for $10 more. One bank runs co2 and fans, the othet is the light...built into one for $40


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## FarmerGee (Dec 7, 2013)

SnapsProvolone said:


> This photo switch has invertable logic.. kick it to LIGHT = ON



Which photoswitch? Theres a switch built into the photocell like a dipswitch or a swutch on a co2 controller?


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 7, 2013)

http://www.ia.omron.com/product/item/e3jm2043h/

Forgot link.


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## FarmerGee (Dec 7, 2013)

I can't thank you enough!!!! I've been looking everywhere for one of these for weeks!!!


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## OX4545 (Dec 11, 2013)

hey bricktown73, I have some questions for you, would you like me to email them or call you or you can email me. I have some pics of my room and am having problems with the breaker tripping in my room that all im running is my 1000w light, ballast and 2 heaters, but I still need to put my oscilating fan in and my exhaust. its on a 20 amp breaker, im comfortable with instructions to work on anything and I can take and send specific pics so you can walk me through it if you don't mind thx a lot. Ox


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## Surfer Joe (Dec 11, 2013)

Hi bricktown, I have a question about my circuit load.
I have a 30 amp circuit in my home's electric fuse box that includes the laundry room and garage and it has a washer and dryer and two fridges that share the circuit, along with a few lights and tv equipment and the grow tent setup in the garage.
I was able to run a 700W cfl lights grow tent with fans and small heaters for a grow recently, but am very conscious that I may be near my circuit load limits.
I would like to be able to put in a second tent with a 600W hid light, fans, etc. but don't know if it will be ok.
How can I tell how much load is already on the circuit? 
The main items are the dryer (3000W), the washer (1200W), and the two fridges (800 and 1000W each) and a grow tent with a 600 W light, plus fans, pumps, etc., and a 700W oil radiator.

Would it be possible to either shift some of the load to another circuit, or to install bigger fuse at the electric box? I am in Europe where the current is 240V.
Thanks.


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## MoNoXiDe211 (Dec 19, 2013)

Should I be concerned? Now that I moved everything to the new room. I have a concern with electricity. all of this on one breaker. Small window ac unit, 1000 watt light, 2 small fans, 1 inline fan, T5 4' 6 bulb, refridgerator, and my garage door opener.


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## budleydoright (Dec 19, 2013)

MoNoXiDe211 said:


> Should I be concerned? Now that I moved everything to the new room. I have a concern with electricity. all of this on one breaker. Small window ac unit, 1000 watt light, 2 small fans, 1 inline fan, T5 4' 6 bulb, refridgerator, and my garage door opener.


I would say yes, you should be concerned. Even a 20 amp circuit would be a stretch.

1k=9 amps
window ac typically 5000 btu 5 amps

You should split it up.


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## MoNoXiDe211 (Dec 19, 2013)

well, its kinda hard to call an electrician now. what else could I do?


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## Frostygreen (Dec 19, 2013)

Hey how's it going. Got a couple questions for you. I have 9 15A receptacles 5 on a 20 amp breaker and the other four on another 20 a breaker on 10 awg. I want to do 30 amp breakers. Can I switch the receptacles to 30 amp and change the breakers to 30 amp 2 pole?


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## budleydoright (Dec 20, 2013)

No additional circuits available?


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 20, 2013)

Frostygreen said:


> Hey how's it going. Got a couple questions for you. I have 9 15A receptacles 5 on a 20 amp breaker and the other four on another 20 a breaker on 10 awg. I want to do 30 amp breakers. Can I switch the receptacles to 30 amp and change the breakers to 30 amp 2 pole?


Probably 12 gauge. I find it hard to believe it #10 wire.


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## green.green (Dec 20, 2013)

I have a detached shed at my house that I am considering doing a small grow in (30 amps). Unfortunately its not wired for it. How much is it going to cost to run power to the shed and is it something I could do myself? (Guessing not) Does the cost relate to how much power need run out there? Is running 220 more expensive than 110? I understand that prices vary from location to location but a ballpark would be great and some understanding of the process.


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 20, 2013)

To feed a detached structure you will be limited by code to one feed. Best to go with 240v and run say 50 amps to a sub panel out there so you can use it how you wish. How many feet and how hard a dig? Most of the cost is in labor, but wire gauge/length plays a part.

Usually going to be a 700 - 1200 job unless its really far or gotta bust concrete to trench.


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## green.green (Dec 20, 2013)

SnapsProvolone said:


> To feed a detached structure you will be limited by code to one feed. Best to go with 240v and run say 50 amps to a sub panel out there so you can use it how you wish. How many feet and how hard a dig? Most of the cost is in labor, but wire gauge/length plays a part.
> 
> Usually going to be a 700 - 1200 job unless its really far or gotta bust concrete to trench.


Its under 30 feet from the back of my house to the likely panel location. My breaker box is underneath my house towards the front which would add another 20 feet. From that panel to the edge of the house would be pretty easy. There is a cement and pebble walkway that is between the house and the shed. Its about 3 feet wide. It might be possible to go under it? Then its all lawn and bushes although the lawn has a rise to it.

Would an electrician allow me to dig the trench to save costs? I have a roto-tiller would should make short work of the lawn. What is the most number of amps I could run on a smaller gauge wire and how much would you estimate that could save me?

I really appreciate the help. This is really helping me with the planning.


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 20, 2013)

You could dig yourself, 18" deep mind you. Get utilities marked first.

At fifty feet I don't anticipate any voltage drop issues. Size conductors according to ampacity, no need to oversize.

#10 = 30 A
#8 = 40 A
#6 = 50 A

You really need to call a sparky out to give an estimate. Discuss how you can save by doing trenching and they will tell you what they want.

Doing this work w/o a permit could land you in hot water with the county.


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## NorthofEngland (Dec 20, 2013)

SnapsProvolone said:


> You could dig yourself, 18" deep mind you. Get utilities marked first.
> 
> At fifty feet I don't anticipate any voltage drop issues. Size conductors according to ampacity, no need to oversize.
> 
> ...


I'm hoping to do a similar job in my back yard, in the springtime.
But my electric box is in a part of the house near the front and I want the shed to be at the top of the back garden.

30ft of garden, 20 ft of house....

*SNAPS[/B
Can you recommend a website or book that is a type of IDIOTS GUIDE to understanding domestic electrics....?

I don't intent to read it and try and do the work myself - I just want to better understand how it all works.

Amps, volts, watts, Ohms....???
I have a qualification in industrial radiography which meant learning about several different units of measurement and how they related to each other, plus I had to learn equations such as the inverse square law.
So I may be able to understand some easy guides....
If I could find one.*


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 20, 2013)

Well my guide is the current NEC code cycle but that's not what you want (British Standard).

There are plenty of DIY books at the hardware store. Just remember, just because it works doesn't mean it's correct or safe. Thus the code book.


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## budleydoright (Dec 20, 2013)

Even if you don't DIY, doing what we are doing, you should have a solid understanding of electricital wiring and proper guaging. A good household wiring book can give you that basic understanding for a few bucks and an extended session on the throne! Highly recommended.


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## NorthofEngland (Dec 20, 2013)

budleydoright said:


> Even if you don't DIY, doing what we are doing, you should have a solid understanding of electricital wiring and proper guaging. A good household wiring book can give you that basic understanding for a few bucks and an extended session on the throne! Highly recommended.


That is exactly my reason for wanting to learn.

Up to 6 weeks ago, I just plugged in things, without a second thought.
Now i'm using contactor relays with TWO PLUGS/CABLES and wondering if I can plug them into a normal extension cable....

Or if I need a different type of male IEC plug for my 1000w lead....?

but, most of all. my upstairs rooms have, ONE, ONE and TWO plug sockets.
An average of 1.33333 plug sockets each (if I don't count the stairs, hall or en suite toilet)
I need to run power upstairs using reel extensions.....

I NEED TO KNOW WHAT'S SAFE.


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## augusto1 (Dec 25, 2013)

I would like to know what Wire Size I need to run for this ac ? Thank you in advance.


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 25, 2013)

#6 unless manufacturer papers spec #4.


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## augusto1 (Dec 25, 2013)

SnapsProvolone said:


> #6 unless manufacturer papers spec #4.


Thanks a Lot SnapsProvolone.


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## Native Humboldt (Dec 25, 2013)

The tag says the ac unit requires a min ckt size of 37.8 amps. An amp draw of 37.8 amps would require a wire size of #8 up to 75 feet from the source (breaker). If the ac unit is over 75 feet from the source you must upsize the wire to a #6. You will also need a double ckt breaker with a 40 amp over load rating. According to the tag you could use a 60 amp supply max, but the cost t run a 60 amp ckt and larger wire would be considerable higher and unnecessary.


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 25, 2013)

Put a disconnect by condenser and feed it with a double pole 60a HACR type breaker.

Use a #6 whip to go from disconnect to condenser.

And don't make holes in top of the weather proof disconnect housing unless using a meyers hub.

Peace.


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 25, 2013)

Native Humboldt said:


> The tag says the ac unit requires a min ckt size of 37.8 amps. An amp draw of 37.8 amps would require a wire size of #8 up to 75 feet from the source (breaker). If the ac unit is over 75 feet from the source you must upsize the wire to a #6. You will also need a double ckt breaker with a 40 amp over load rating. According to the tag you could use a 60 amp supply max, but the cost t run a 60 amp ckt and larger wire would be considerable higher and unnecessary.


He needs a 60 amp OCPD and thus #6 is really a minimum. 37.8a will trip a 40.


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 25, 2013)

If he undersizes the breaker from a 60 it will likely trip when compressor starts.

I am a licensed master electrician, I have done hundreds of feeds for AC condensers.


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## Native Humboldt (Dec 25, 2013)

For sure its always better to run a max size ckt but sometimes its not an option with a normal residential breaker 100 amp service. Most of the time ac units don't run at there max load in this case 37.8 amps unless the condenser is plugged or there is a problem with the compressor. If I were installing this unit for a customer I would for sure run a max ckt size but if it were for myself I would feel fine running a min supply as long as it was rated above the max amp draw of the ac unit manufacture tag.


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 25, 2013)

Native Humboldt said:


> For sure its always better to run a max size ckt but sometimes its not an option with a normal residential breaker 100 amp service. Most of the time ac units don't run at there max load in this case 37.8 amps unless the condenser is plugged or there is a problem with the compressor. If I were installing this unit for a customer I would for sure run a max ckt size but if it were for myself I would feel fine running a min supply as long as it was rated above the max amp draw of the ac unit manufacture tag.


Won't pass inspection. Sure wouldn't do a hot start w/o tripping a 50. Gotta understand your electrical a little better when it comes to motor loads (ie: compresser).

Are you licensed?


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## Native Humboldt (Dec 25, 2013)

I'm an industrial refrigeration engineer not a lot of experience in residential electrical. I play with anhydrous ammonia and industrial cooling systems. Your probably right sounds like you have done a few!


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 25, 2013)

Ahh an engineer. See there is the difference in our thinking.

I think based on NEC compliance.

You think based on electrical theory.

Now IF you design an approved device that has an engineer sign off on a code conflict then an inspector can ignore code and go by your design specifications. We deal with this a lot on chillers.


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## Pimpernickel (Dec 26, 2013)

I need to extend my lamp cords 20' and all of the supply houses are out of lamp cord extensions. The plan is to severe the lamp cord and insert a length of wire in the middle, reconnected within a Jbox on each end. So Lamp socket>Jbox<wire>Jbox<end of lamp cord>plug into ballast. 

I see that the lamp cords are only 16awg so 14/3 romex should be sufficient right?


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 26, 2013)

Pimpernickel said:


> I need to extend my lamp cords 20' and all of the supply houses are out of lamp cord extensions. The plan is to severe the lamp cord and insert a length of wire in the middle, reconnected within a Jbox on each end. So Lamp socket>Jbox<wire>Jbox<end of lamp cord>plug into ballast.
> 
> I see that the lamp cords are only 16awg so 14/3 romex should be sufficient right?


This will work electrically speaking but you only need 14-2 (ground isn't included in the -2 but it's there) I would recommend using some SJOOW cord.


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## budleydoright (Dec 26, 2013)

Snaps, doesn't a modern lamp cord have some shielding to prevent RF interfernce?


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 26, 2013)

budleydoright said:


> Snaps, doesn't a modern lamp cord have some shielding to prevent RF interfernce?


Nope. On computer monitors, flat screens and the like they pop s ferrite rfi supressor but not on lamps.


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## JackHererSki (Dec 26, 2013)

This isn't a wiring question but, if I have (1) 1000w light and I run it for 1hr that = 1kwh correct. Which 10 hrs a day =300kwh a month? 

I know I sound stupid but I want to estimate my electric bill for upgrades

12-12 CFL 400w


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## hydrogreen65 (Dec 26, 2013)

Can't be done without knowing the power rate in your area.


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## Remi1 (Dec 27, 2013)

Can I climb in the attic & "tap" into the 240v, 30 amp line that runs to my stove & run a new line off that to a bedroom to a light controller to power 4 1k watt lights? I haven't used my stove in over a year since I moved in & don't plan on it however if there's a way to do it by not disconnecting the stove that would be great. 
It's a rental house so I don't want to mess with the outside box at all. Thanks in advance


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 27, 2013)

It can be done but it's not the route I would advise you take.

Why not make a heavy duty plug in play extension that you can plug into the range receptacle and feed your controller?

Use a compatible plug end and some 10-2 SOOJW with a 4" metal boxed receptacle to plug your controller into.


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## Remi1 (Dec 27, 2013)

I thought about that but wasn't sure for some reason if it would be to long, aprox. 50'-60'. Thanks for the parts to do it. If that's all I need then that's the easy route. Thanks.


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 28, 2013)

If your extension is that long may I recommend using 8-2 wire so as to avoid voltage drop.


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## Remi1 (Dec 28, 2013)

Hey snaps thanks for all your help.
Is this the wire you are talking about? http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-8-2-NM-W-G-By-the-Foot-28893699/204632778?N=bm7vZ1z0ukz9#

Also you mentioned a 4" box..... Can't I just hard wire the controller to the line or would it be better to make a plug at the end of the line then plug the controller in?

* after thinking about it I am going to do a plug in case other things come up that need the plug


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## steelheadguy (Dec 28, 2013)

I have a light controller box that I wired to my dryer plug. It is 30 amps. I have two questions. 

1. Im about to flower with 2 600w lights. They need to be 12/12. I also have have a 600w for my mothers. How can I keep the moms on 18/6? Right now I have a simple timer on the 120 trigger of the light controller, but it controls them as a whole.

2. Hypothetically how many lights can be used on this light controller? 30A x 250 v = 7500watts of light... Is that about right?


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 28, 2013)

Remi1 said:


> Hey snaps thanks for all your help.
> Is this the wire you are talking about? http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-8-2-NM-W-G-By-the-Foot-28893699/204632778?N=bm7vZ1z0ukz9#
> 
> Also you mentioned a 4" box..... Can't I just hard wire the controller to the line or would it be better to make a plug at the end of the line then plug the controller in?
> ...



Go to an electrical supply house. They will stock it. If they ask say your making an extension cord for a welder. If your doing a three prong use 8-2 if its a 4 prong use 8-3. The SOOJW is flexible (stranded conductors) then nm cable you linked will be very stiff.


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 28, 2013)

steelheadguy said:


> I have a light controller box that I wired to my dryer plug. It is 30 amps. I have two questions.
> 
> 1. Im about to flower with 2 600w lights. They need to be 12/12. I also have have a 600w for my mothers. How can I keep the moms on 18/6? Right now I have a simple timer on the 120 trigger of the light controller, but it controls them as a whole.
> 
> 2. Hypothetically how many lights can be used on this light controller? 30A x 250 v = 7500watts of light... Is that about right?


5760 watts. 240v x 30a x 0.8

More than 80% and your going to start having breaker trip issues.


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## Zeke92 (Dec 29, 2013)

Hey, how important is a surge protector ? I read a guide and it said that no matter what light u get, make sure you get a surge protector.


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## B166ER420 (Dec 29, 2013)

^^^^





VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!!


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## budleydoright (Dec 29, 2013)

Your putting a surge suppressor on an HID light?


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 29, 2013)

Zeke92 said:


> Hey, how important is a surge protector ? I read a guide and it said that no matter what light u get, make sure you get a surge protector.


Only worry if your ballast is digital. The magnetic ballasts arent sensitive.

I just pop an intermatic panel gaurd on the load center to protect the whole house.


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## Nookies (Dec 29, 2013)

Will I have problems running a 400 watt light, 6 inch inline fan, and a circulating fan or two on one socket?


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Dec 29, 2013)

Nookies said:


> Will I have problems running a 400 watt light, 6 inch inline fan, and a circulating fan or two on one socket?


probably not assuming your house has 15-20amp circuits. older homes might have 10amp circuits. just be careful what else you put on that circuit; remember that electricians usually put several outlets on one circuit so any other outlets nearby are most likely on the same circuit. i.e. don't go plugging the vacuum in a circuit in the same room.


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## Nookies (Dec 29, 2013)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> probably not assuming your house has 15-20amp circuits. older homes might have 10amp circuits. just be careful what else you put on that circuit; remember that electricians usually put several outlets on one circuit so any other outlets nearby are most likely on the same circuit. i.e. don't go plugging the vacuum in a circuit in the same room.


Well, I have 3 sockets total in my room. One socket furthest away has a surge protector that powers my 500 watt powersupply computer and monitor. The second socket has my 5,000 BTU window AC unit. 

The 3rd socket is the one ill be using to plug everything up. However, the bathroom is literally on the other side of the wall. But nothing is ever plugged into that.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Dec 29, 2013)

Nookies said:


> Well, I have 3 sockets total in my room. One socket furthest away has a surge protector that powers my 500 watt powersupply computer and monitor. The second socket has my 5,000 BTU window AC unit.
> 
> The 3rd socket is the one ill be using to plug everything up. However, the bathroom is literally on the other side of the wall. But nothing is ever plugged into that.


most likely all 3 of those sockets are on one breaker. plug something into each socket and go shut off the breaker to check. if so; then check the size of the breaker (will be a number on the breaker, either 15 or 20). that is how many amps you have to carry on the three breakers combined. you don't want to go over 80% of that number (so 16amps on a 20amp breaker) cause you run into overheating problems in the wiring. you might be lucky and the one furthest away could be on another circuit. double check though. if they are all on the same circuit you probably don't have enough juice to run all of that. bathrooms and kitchens are usually 20amp gfi circuits which is great to plug your ballast into.


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## oracle3301 (Dec 29, 2013)

Special times.


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 29, 2013)

In most jurisdictions NEC requires a 20 amp bathroom circuit. You might have more to play with on the bathroom feed depending on how old the home is.


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## spek9 (Dec 29, 2013)

SnapsProvolone said:


> In most jurisdictions NEC requires a 20 amp bathroom circuit. You might have more to play with on the bathroom feed depending on how old the home is.


In at least parts of Canada, upon my last update on the Code, it is 15A in the bathroom as long as the hot coming in was ground-faulted. Nobody in their right mind would run anything beyond that, but it was legal if they wanted to. This is going back about 7 years.

Bathrooms are good to bounce off of, because they're usually dedicated, and most won't run circuits from them.

Don't let your wife run a hair dryer that looks like an oven at the same time as lights-on though.

-spek


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 30, 2013)

2008 NEC - 210.11(C)(3) requires a 20A branch circuit in the bathroom to supply only receptacles. The exception says: where the 20A circuit supplies a single bathroom, outlets for other equip within the same bathroom shall be permitted in accordance with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2)


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Dec 30, 2013)

SnapsProvolone said:


> 2008 NEC - 210.11(C)(3) requires a 20A branch circuit in the bathroom to supply only receptacles. The exception says: where the 20A circuit supplies a single bathroom, outlets for other equip within the same bathroom shall be permitted in accordance with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2)


spek was talking about Canada...they don't use NEC codes.


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## Nookies (Dec 31, 2013)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> most likely all 3 of those sockets are on one breaker. plug something into each socket and go shut off the breaker to check. if so; then check the size of the breaker (will be a number on the breaker, either 15 or 20). that is how many amps you have to carry on the three breakers combined. you don't want to go over 80% of that number (so 16amps on a 20amp breaker) cause you run into overheating problems in the wiring. you might be lucky and the one furthest away could be on another circuit. double check though. if they are all on the same circuit you probably don't have enough juice to run all of that. bathrooms and kitchens are usually 20amp gfi circuits which is great to plug your ballast into.


Ok, I went to look at our circuit breaker. It appears each room is on it's own breaker, if anything mine is shared with the bathroom. 

It has Breaker 1: Bedroom #1 Breaker 2: Bedroom 2,etc. 

I looked on the side of the panel where theres a graph and didn't see a number. However on the switches themselves to turn it on or off there's a 15 for the bedrooms, 20 for kitchen/bathroom and a 30 I believe for the fridge/stove.


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## spek9 (Dec 31, 2013)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> spek was talking about Canada...they don't use NEC codes.


Yep, but honestly, I haven't done bathroom electrical in many years as stated above (other than replacing the actual receptacles, switches and lights in my Mom's condo), so it could have been changed here as well. I put that little disclaimer in there about the seven years just in case.

Canada and U.S. are more-or-less aligned on a lot of things, and when I was into electrical a lot more than I am now, I noticed that each time a new revision of our code here came out, U.S. had changed as well. Kind of bounces back and forth I found.

-spek


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Dec 31, 2013)

Nookies said:


> Ok, I went to look at our circuit breaker. It appears each room is on it's own breaker, if anything mine is shared with the bathroom.
> 
> It has Breaker 1: Bedroom #1 Breaker 2: Bedroom 2,etc.
> 
> I looked on the side of the panel where theres a graph and didn't see a number. However on the switches themselves to turn it on or off there's a 15 for the bedrooms, 20 for kitchen/bathroom and a 30 I believe for the fridge/stove.


that means you only have a 15 amp breaker running all 3 outlets in your bedroom. which means you really only have 12amps to play with safely. i'd put some stuff on the circuit in the bathroom.


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## spek9 (Dec 31, 2013)

Nookies said:


> Ok, I went to look at our circuit breaker. It appears each room is on it's own breaker, if anything mine is shared with the bathroom.
> 
> It has Breaker 1: Bedroom #1 Breaker 2: Bedroom 2,etc.
> 
> I looked on the side of the panel where theres a graph and didn't see a number. However on the switches themselves to turn it on or off there's a 15 for the bedrooms, 20 for kitchen/bathroom and a 30 I believe for the fridge/stove.


The 30 is for the stove. By code (at least in Canada), the stove is dedicated, and the fridge must have its own circuit (other than allowing you to connect a wall clock plug, which don't really exist anymore).

It wouldn't surprise me if your bathroom is the same as your bedroom, especially in an older home.

Easy way to test. Plug something into the bathroom and something into each plug in the bedroom and turn the breaker off.

-spek


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## SnapsProvolone (Dec 31, 2013)

Nookies said:


> Ok, I went to look at our circuit breaker. It appears each room is on it's own breaker, if anything mine is shared with the bathroom.
> 
> It has Breaker 1: Bedroom #1 Breaker 2: Bedroom 2,etc.
> 
> I looked on the side of the panel where theres a graph and didn't see a number. However on the switches themselves to turn it on or off there's a 15 for the bedrooms, 20 for kitchen/bathroom and a 30 I believe for the fridge/stove.


I agree with Spek9. I do however wonder if your bathroom is sharing a circuit with your kitchen counter based on what you stated about your panel labeling. It would be a 20 amp though at least...


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## Nookies (Dec 31, 2013)

spek9 said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if your bathroom is the same as your bedroom, especially in an older home.
> 
> Easy way to test. Plug something into the bathroom and something into each plug in the bedroom and turn the breaker off.
> 
> -spek


Yeah, ill be checking sometime tomorrow morning, the wall socket I have in my bathroom has a little red and black reset switch on it. I have no idea what it's for. All that said, I found out my AC unit is using 5.6 amps. (6,400 btu) (600 watts), however I don't run the AC, just the fan mode on low, so im guessing it wouldn't be using the full 5.6 amps? My PSU on my PC is 500, dunno what my 19 inch monitor is using. If I do hook up my grow tent with fans, inline fan, 400 watt ill be pushing it.. :S


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 1, 2014)

The bathroom receptacle is a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter designed to shut off power if any current makes it's way to earth (really just watches the neutral / hot for any difference). By code these are required in the bathroom due to water hazards. They are sometimes the cause or at least partially to blame for a phenomenon called "nuisance trips" where it trips for no obvious reason. In this case, after eliminating faulty equipment wiring, one should consider swapping the old receptacle for a new gfci receptacle (cooper is best quality imo, avoid cheap chinese) be sure to get the 20 amp gfcI not a 15 amp since your on a 20 amp feed.


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 1, 2014)

Count on AC pulling full power intermittently.


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## neonknight420 (Jan 1, 2014)

Can someone tell me on swichable hps/mh ballast do both lights run off the same capacitor, or they seperate caps for each.


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 1, 2014)

Same cap, just adds the igniter for hps mode.


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## R.C. COLA (Jan 1, 2014)

I was wondering if you know where I can find any diy sites or instruction on making a complete relay/contactor panels. I am waiting on my Agrowtek pro-xl hydo. Not sure if your familiar with agrowtek and there newest model of controller. So it is the mother of automation controllers. It is capable of controlling three individual grow area. ie 2 flower rooms, 1 veg. or any combination of rooms. it also can control automate 2 individaul hydroponic systems PH/EC temp and is capable of at least 8 dosing pumps per hydro sensor. 
My order is the GC-Pro-XL hydro with one climate sensor that includes co2, a second sensor that is climate only no co2, and 2 hydo sensor each capable of PH/EC/TEMP and 4 dosing pumps each. so I have a spare expansion slot that can be upgraded in the field at anytime. so when I am able to add a 3rd room to be automated I just order an other climate sensor and plug it in. This setup hurt the bank but it what I always wanted so I got it. 
It comes with 16 outputs and I included an option to add 8 more outputs. So total of 24 24vdc outputs. Agrowtek makes and sells there own relay panels either come plug in play with outlets built in, or to be hardwired. the have different size panels some that have individual relay per outlet for individual equipment to be automated by the controllers outputs, and they make contactor panels that also come in diffrent sizes to power on banks of equipment such as lights and fans. The problem is that after ordering all the other gear I could not afford the extra to buy there pre-made panels. They offer a solid 90day try it dont like it get your money back, and a 3 year fix it or replace it warranty. They where clear they would not back these offers if I only bought the controller and sensors and not there panels. They do offer a 12 output relay dry contact panel that is a fraction of the price that I can use to connect there controller to a custom panel of my choice. So I order to of the RD-12 panel each has 12 low voltage dry contact relays. one for each room being controlled.
I would like to build my own panels that would be wired into the dry contacts of the rd-12 panel. I would like to build panel with relays that feature independently operated outlets or output to be hardwired, and also have the panel include or build individual panel that include contactors that switch all outlets on at the same time to operate banks of lights, fans, etc. I will need to have either one giant panel or two smaller panels that can be placed down line of the dry contact switches that will control each room. 
I have learned alot in the past 7 years and feel confident that I could follow detailed instructions and make my own panels to hardwire/plug my equipment into. I hope I was clear enough about what it is I am trying to build. 

Agrowtek GC-Pro-XL link
http://agrowtek.com/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,flypage.tpl/product_id,77/category_id,14/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,26/

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
Peace
R.C.


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 2, 2014)

Seems like a nice system. Seeing that you have a lot invested already, you should really consider not voiding your warranty by using unapproved equipment. That said, shoot us your schematic and we will scrutinize it for you.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Jan 3, 2014)

R.C. COLA said:


> I was wondering if you know where I can find any diy sites or instruction on making a complete relay/contactor panels. I am waiting on my Agrowtek pro-xl hydo. Not sure if your familiar with agrowtek and there newest model of controller. So it is the mother of automation controllers. It is capable of controlling three individual grow area. ie 2 flower rooms, 1 veg. or any combination of rooms. it also can control automate 2 individaul hydroponic systems PH/EC temp and is capable of at least 8 dosing pumps per hydro sensor.
> My order is the GC-Pro-XL hydro with one climate sensor that includes co2, a second sensor that is climate only no co2, and 2 hydo sensor each capable of PH/EC/TEMP and 4 dosing pumps each. so I have a spare expansion slot that can be upgraded in the field at anytime. so when I am able to add a 3rd room to be automated I just order an other climate sensor and plug it in. This setup hurt the bank but it what I always wanted so I got it.
> It comes with 16 outputs and I included an option to add 8 more outputs. So total of 24 24vdc outputs. Agrowtek makes and sells there own relay panels either come plug in play with outlets built in, or to be hardwired. the have different size panels some that have individual relay per outlet for individual equipment to be automated by the controllers outputs, and they make contactor panels that also come in diffrent sizes to power on banks of equipment such as lights and fans. The problem is that after ordering all the other gear I could not afford the extra to buy there pre-made panels. They offer a solid 90day try it dont like it get your money back, and a 3 year fix it or replace it warranty. They where clear they would not back these offers if I only bought the controller and sensors and not there panels. They do offer a 12 output relay dry contact panel that is a fraction of the price that I can use to connect there controller to a custom panel of my choice. So I order to of the RD-12 panel each has 12 low voltage dry contact relays. one for each room being controlled.
> I would like to build my own panels that would be wired into the dry contacts of the rd-12 panel. I would like to build panel with relays that feature independently operated outlets or output to be hardwired, and also have the panel include or build individual panel that include contactors that switch all outlets on at the same time to operate banks of lights, fans, etc. I will need to have either one giant panel or two smaller panels that can be placed down line of the dry contact switches that will control each room.
> ...




Here is a screen grab from the agrowtek website regarding installation.

From this image we can determine that the outputs are PNP 24VDC.

You'll also notice that they have included ampacity limits for the outputs. 500mA per channel.

This means that you could use the outputs of this controller to "drive" any contactor/relay of your choosing, with the only stipulation that the contactor/relay can draw a maximum of 500mA. Most contactors will fall beneath this range. Relays certainly will. 24VDC is a nominal voltage in industrial control. Relays/contactors will be readily available.

Size your contactors to your largest load, or determine the ampacity of each load individually and determine the best relay/contactor option.

Below is a load center that I built recently. As you can see, the outlets have been mounted to the face of the enclosure, and they are being fed through relays and contactors within the enclosure. These relays/contactors are also driven with 24VDC, by a programmable logic controller in a separate enclosure, interfaced to the load center via a multi-conductor cable (Similar to the multicolor wiring diagram provided by agrowtek).




Share exactly how many outputs you'd like to utilize.

Specify the wattage, or current draw of each load connected to be controlled by those outputs. 

Example, 

output 1.) (3) 600 Watt, 240 Volt Ballasts
output 2.) One 200 Watt, 120 Volt Pump

Note: More than one load can be controlled by each output, but if several contactors are needed for a single output, other interface considerations will be needed.

I'll draw you a schematic, and then tell you how much it can be built for.


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## R.C. COLA (Jan 3, 2014)

Thank T.H.C. I sent a p.m but am unsure if you got it, please let me know if you did not and I will try again. Thank you for being helpful. I offer as much help I feel I can when it is about something I know. I am always amazed how much knowledge is out there not being shared. I find it hard to believe there is anything pertaining to indoor growing that someone does not have some insight on, and how many questions go on answered. Thanks again.


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## R.C. COLA (Jan 7, 2014)

Me again. Maybe someone can explain to me how or if I can use a Duplex 20 amp breaker to run a 240amp circuit. I have a Eaton BR2020 breaker. I thought I could use this to run my line for my spot cooler. I hate to use two slots in my sub panel for only one device. If the bar handles are not tied together then it will not trip correctly correct? any help will be great!


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## sull3ygt (Jan 7, 2014)

good day to you sir! i have posted my question in a different post, includes pics. if you could please advise me on this situation, i'd appreciate it greatly. thanking you in advance!


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## sull3ygt (Jan 7, 2014)

https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/773788-400watt-hps-light.html


the link to said question


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## Stevie51 (Jan 7, 2014)

R.C. COLA said:


> Me again. Maybe someone can explain to me how or if I can use a Duplex 20 amp breaker to run a 240amp circuit. I have a Eaton BR2020 breaker. I thought I could use this to run my line for my spot cooler. I hate to use two slots in my sub panel for only one device. If the bar handles are not tied together then it will not trip correctly correct? any help will be great!


The Eaton BR2020 breaker is a tandem style circuit breaker consisting of two single pole breakers sharing the same slot, and thus are sharing the same pole. These breakers can only be use for 120 volts branch circuits. A double pole circuit breaker occupy two slots in your circuit breaker panel, and thus are on two poles, is required for a 240 volts circuit.


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## R.C. COLA (Jan 7, 2014)

Thanks sometimes it takes hearing, or reading it to have it make since. I was mostly confused since it was picked out by the electric supply store I use and I bought it along with a twistlock 20 amp outlet. So some more questions I have a panel wired to a 20 amp double pole 240volt breaker. The plugs are not the 6-20 type but rather 6-15 straight blade only plugs. Since I do not have the right breaker to setup a dedicated circuit right now, I was wondering if it is possible to wire a cord with a 6-15 plug with a L6-20 twist outlet to power my device from that panel. I do not have anything running at this time. I am just trying to make sure everything works. If I can at least test it out before going back to town to pick up a new double pole 20amp breaker. Hate to do all this extra running around just to find out that something is wrong with it. So can a 6-15 outlet handle the extra couple amps or will it burn out. The spot cooler it will run is rated at 12.3 cooling amps, 2200 watts, 79 in rush amps, calls for a dedicated 20amp breaker, and a 6-20 plug, it came to me with the L6-20 twist lock. What do you think will I be able to test it out using the 6-15plug?


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## MotherNaturesGift67 (Jan 8, 2014)

Ok Brick you are just the person im looking for.. i hate the feeling of leaving to work and thinking something my spark and start a fire! So ive tried to disperse all the wiring through out the room.. like this Two ufo LED 135 watts and two 75 watt into one outlet.. then the carbon filfer into another outlet.. and a Exhaust fan in another outlet.. my other concern is my houss is a little in the older side so i dont know if i should maybe change the outlet to newer stonger ones like GFI's? Thanks for any advice


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## mountain dweller (Jan 8, 2014)

Ok I have a set-up question.

I have an empty 40 amp 220 spot in my panel that was hooked to a stove I have since replaced with gas so I have tha breaker open and I can rewire it to go to my grow but I need to know the best way to go about it.
I want to run at least 4 but max 6, 1000 watt lights on that breaker (20-30 amps) but aside from what size wire to run I'm lost on the best setup as faras what type outlets and how to wire them to run four to six lights on one breaker. And if 6 is pushing that circuit I have plenty of room for more breakers but right now my plan is four. Any help would be appreciated


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 8, 2014)

MotherNaturesGift67 said:


> Ok Brick you are just the person im looking for.. i hate the feeling of leaving to work and thinking something my spark and start a fire! So ive tried to disperse all the wiring through out the room.. like this Two ufo LED 135 watts and two 75 watt into one outlet.. then the carbon filfer into another outlet.. and a Exhaust fan in another outlet.. my other concern is my houss is a little in the older side so i dont know if i should maybe change the outlet to newer stonger ones like GFI's? Thanks for any advice


it would be some added security but with that low of an electrical draw i wouldn't worry too much. at most you are pulling 6 amps and even old circuits can handle that.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 8, 2014)

mountain dweller said:


> Ok I have a set-up question.
> 
> I have an empty 40 amp 220 spot in my panel that was hooked to a stove I have since replaced with gas so I have tha breaker open and I can rewire it to go to my grow but I need to know the best way to go about it.
> I want to run at least 4 but max 6, 1000 watt lights on that breaker (20-30 amps) but aside from what size wire to run I'm lost on the best setup as faras what type outlets and how to wire them to run four to six lights on one breaker. And if 6 is pushing that circuit I have plenty of room for more breakers but right now my plan is four. Any help would be appreciated


the easiest way would be to hardwire that breaker directly to a light controller. they are a little pricey but well worth it. works just like a sub-panel with outlets all in one. most require that you run your ballasts at 220v but there are some that run 110v; some have both. some even have built in timers. just get one large enough to fit everything you need. i use a powerbox one that has a built in digital timer, prevents hot starts, will delay firing of bulbs at startup, and even has a meter that reads your electrical draw. that's a little on the fancy side but it's great. all my lights are on the 220v outlets and my fans are on the 110v. they all run on the same timer. you can even get ones that have dual trigger cords. means you can control different banks of outlets on different timers. 

if you wanna size up the outlet you can even swap out that 40amp for a 50 or 60amp. if you are gonna run 6 lights in the future it would be worth it.


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## mountain dweller (Jan 8, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> the easiest way would be to hardwire that breaker directly to a light controller. they are a little pricey but well worth it. works just like a sub-panel with outlets all in one. most require that you run your ballasts at 220v but there are some that run 110v; some have both. some even have built in timers. just get one large enough to fit everything you need. i use a powerbox one that has a built in digital timer, prevents hot starts, will delay firing of bulbs at startup, and even has a meter that reads your electrical draw. that's a little on the fancy side but it's great. all my lights are on the 220v outlets and my fans are on the 110v. they all run on the same timer. you can even get ones that have dual trigger cords. means you can control different banks of outlets on different timers.
> 
> if you wanna size up the outlet you can even swap out that 40amp for a 50 or 60amp. if you are gonna run 6 lights in the future it would be worth it.


cool,sounds like the set-up I need what does the one you have run? I was looking at the Helios 7,says it runs 8 lights at 240 but its rated 40 amps? 8 x 5amps = 40 but you wouldnt want to max it out like that right? If I got that would I want to upgrade to a 50 or 60 amp breaker or would it need to stay at 40?


http://www.amazon.com/Titan-Controls-702676-Controller-240-volt/dp/B004JKBIHQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1389233522&sr=8-2&keywords=grow+light+controller


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 8, 2014)

i wouldn't max out a light controller either. but i think you can put closer to 90-95% of their rated load on them. i just have my lights, inline fans, and Co2 generator on mine. everything else in my room isn't on a timer so they are plugged directly into an outlet. i'd definitely upgrade to a 60amp breaker if you are gonna run 6+ lights. you may have to upgrade the wiring as well. i don't know anything about the titan models; never worked with them. the power box ones are badass though. twice the price though. i think titan makes a reliable product from what i've heard.


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## spek9 (Jan 8, 2014)

fwiw, one should never put more than 80% load on any electrical circuit, and imho, that includes any devices that are helping distribute the electricity.

-spek


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## MotherNaturesGift67 (Jan 8, 2014)

Thank you! Very much Appreciated


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## myturdcutter (Jan 9, 2014)

hey man i have a full bedroom as my garden and i have a 600 watt light going rite now with a 60 watt air pump and a fan.what im trying to find out is what are the chances that i can run a 2nd 600 watt light in that room. also the room is all on its own breaker 2nd would running a ex cord from the room next to the garden room for a new 600 watt be ok (i know its got to be a 14 gage cord but is that safe to do ? hope this made sence to you thanks man


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## ramie auto (Jan 9, 2014)

i have an inline fan that doesnt have a speed control would a standard plug with a dimmer work to slow it down ?


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## mountain dweller (Jan 9, 2014)

ramie auto said:


> i have an inline fan that doesnt have a speed control would a standard plug with a dimmer work to slow it down ?


a speed controller is cheaper than a good dimmer switch http://www.hydroponics.net/i/132531


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## Greenthumbskunk (Jan 10, 2014)

Will 12/2 around 40 ft long at the most more like 25-30 ft handle 30 amps on a 220 volt system?


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 11, 2014)

Greenthumbskunk said:


> Will 12/2 around 40 ft long at the most more like 25-30 ft handle 30 amps on a 220 volt system?


12 gauge is rated for 25amps. Since it is 25amps per leg on 220v then yes it will handle it safely.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 11, 2014)

a useful tool I found. http://www.csgnetwork.com/wiresizecalc.html


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## Greenthumbskunk (Jan 11, 2014)

What is the appropriate size breaker for a 6awg wire? I know a 50 will do but maybe a 60?


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## steelheadguy (Jan 11, 2014)

Can I use 2 220v power strips with my 4 light controller to be able to run 6 lights? How safe are extension cords or power strips like these?

Sent from my HTC One using Rollitup mobile app


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## Greenthumbskunk (Jan 11, 2014)

Joe isn't that for 12 volt systems as ina vehicle? I know that isn't correct for a home. 

My 200 amp box as a 30 amp dual breaker with 6awg wire coming from it out to my shed. I'm replacing the screw in fuse box in my shop with a 100 amp square D. Shop is around 40 ft away so maybe 50 ft length of 6awg wire. 
With a 100 amp box in the shed it will kick the breaker in the house first. 

I was playing with this link and it says I could put a 100 amp breaker on a 6awg wire out to 50 foot. 
http://www.csgnetwork.com/wiresizecalc.html


Alo a couple of pages back they were talking about controllers I guess like a Titan? Anyways I was looking at those and they have small 10 amp or 15 amp pull on em and only take group of connectors like all of em was on 110 or 220. I'd like to have one that has both so I could plug all my lights fans and anything else I want on my timer. Of course it would have to be both 110 and 220 in the same unit. Anybody manufacturer a product like that? I saw a link the other day where you can build your own controller that would operate off 220. I'll see if I can find it.


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## Greenthumbskunk (Jan 11, 2014)

Here it is.... http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/grow-light-controller.asp


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## max420thc (Jan 11, 2014)

I use water heater/hot tub timer..although it doesnt have all the fancy gadgets some of the timers do. They are heavy built.The wire from the breaker goes to the timer.then the timer feeds outlets where the ballasts are located.You should be able to check a wire chart where you purchase your wire because im a stoner and cant remember off of hand what gauge wire will hold 40 amps.But i think its 8 gauge wire.Each 1000 watt ballasts at 220
will require around 5 amps to run it so that circuit should run 6 1000 without any problem.
For each watt of power coming out of these ballasts you will need 3.4 BTUs of cooling.A/C is normally sized in tons..12000 btu per ton of cooling.
Id say around 3 tons of cooling should be good.So there is another 20 amp breaker in the box to control the cooling unit unless one already exists you can divert to cool with.
Then you have a dehumidifier.The large dehumidifiers will pump some juice on 110 volts.They can run around 70 pints a day with a amp draw of around 12 amps by them selfs and often need a dedicated circuit.
Just with these items and no fans we are looking at around 65 amps..not including fans pumps or anything else.
Make sure your main breaker box is at least a 200 amp service.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 11, 2014)

Greenthumbskunk said:


> Joe isn't that for 12 volt systems as ina vehicle? I know that isn't correct for a home.
> yeh, that chart was wrong, I didn't notice @ first...I removed it.
> My 200 amp box as a 30 amp dual breaker with 6awg wire coming from it out to my shed. I'm replacing the screw in fuse box in my shop with a 100 amp square D. Shop is around 40 ft away so maybe 50 ft length of 6awg wire.
> With a 100 amp box in the shed it will kick the breaker in the house first.
> ...


hmmm, that does seem thin to me. i'd go w/#4 for a 100amp box

or #2 aluminum


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## max420thc (Jan 11, 2014)

LAST ONE

These timers sale for around 40 bucks..they are not digital they are mechanical..extremely reliable ,They will hold 40 amps and run 6 1000 watt lights no problem.They operate at 220 volts.


 [h=4]NEW INTERMATIC T104 40A-277V MECHANICAL INDOOR TIME TIMER SWITCH USA 6371595[/h] 






Expedited shipping available
 
 $39.95
Buy It Now






17 Sold


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## Greenthumbskunk (Jan 11, 2014)

Max that is a sweet timer!


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## max420thc (Jan 11, 2014)

These timers are cheaper than any you will find at the hydro shop and very heavy built.You can go to any home depot and find them..or lowes..whatever.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 11, 2014)

steelheadguy said:


> Can I use 2 220v power strips with my 4 light controller to be able to run 6 lights? How safe are extension cords or power strips like these?
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Rollitup mobile app


no, it might work but is not recommended to run any power strips on a light controller.


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## max420thc (Jan 11, 2014)

These are the gauge sizes and ampacity of 3 conductor under 2000 volts.
14 gauge will hold 20 amps.
12 AWG.25 AMPS
10 AWG 30 TO 40 amps depending on type of cable.
8 awg 40 to 50 amps
6 awg 55 to 75 amps.
4 awg 70 to 95
2 awg 95 to 130 amps
1 awg 110 to 150 amps
the 200 amp wire range would be 4/0range from 195 amps to 260 amps.
This info is obtained from the NEC.national electrical code conductors for general wiring.1999 addition. page 70-126.
The amps depend on the class of wire used,The lowest amp rating is in TW UF rated wire,Romex as we call it sometimes.
I am a certified master electrician.But i do not work in high voltage.Im a control electrician and senior mechanic.
I do not play with power outside of a building.I leave that for linemen.
Anything within a building or structure i can make it walk and talk and do whatever you want.


----------



## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 11, 2014)

Greenthumbskunk said:


> Joe isn't that for 12 volt systems as ina vehicle? I know that isn't correct for a home.
> 
> My 200 amp box as a 30 amp dual breaker with 6awg wire coming from it out to my shed. I'm replacing the screw in fuse box in my shop with a 100 amp square D. Shop is around 40 ft away so maybe 50 ft length of 6awg wire.
> With a 100 amp box in the shed it will kick the breaker in the house first.
> ...


#6 will be fine. remember you are pulling 2 legs of it so it's rated load of 65amps doubles to 130amps. no need to replace the wiring since it's already there. 

i use powerbox controllers. i have on erased for 60amps and another rated for 40amps; at 220v. they are the best in my opinion; but pretty expensive. i've never built a light controller before but plenty of guys on here have. just make sure you buy quality contactors and relays. and test the unit with something before you go plugging all your equipment into it.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 11, 2014)

max420thc said:


> These are the gauge sizes and ampacity of 3 conductor under 2000 volts.
> 14 gauge will hold 20 amps.
> 12 AWG.25 AMPS
> 10 AWG 30 TO 40 amps depending on type of cable.
> ...


when it comes to building wire it's not dependent on the wire but in the ambient temperature surrounding the wire. that's why direct burial cables (urd) are always rated a little higher. just type "wire ampacity chart" into google and you'll see a bunch come up. the difference is no where near that much. about 5-10 amps depending on the temperature. i always just use the middle column. they also have aluminum capacities on the right usually.

just remember that most anything over 30 amps is usually 220v so you have 2 legs. so loading a 200amp box with 4/0 is not necessary at all and is probably a waste of money. #2 would be fine.


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## max420thc (Jan 11, 2014)

According to the national electrical code i wouldnt use 2 awg wire for 200 amps.I understand the heat has to do with the capacity of how many amps the wire will hold along with the insulation of the wire.
2 awg wire,,according to the code would not be safe.You can do what you want im sure..but burning up your grow because you saved a couple of bucks on wire would really suck.
Im just siting code from NEC.I just dont go outside of that code.For allot of obvious reasons.
Im not telling anyone they are stupid.So please dont take this wrong.If I were to go outside this code..and someones shit burned up..guess who gets in huge trouble? ME.
I have yet to burn or blow someones property up going by code.


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## max420thc (Jan 11, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> #6 will be fine. remember you are pulling 2 legs of it so it's rated load of 65amps doubles to 130amps. no need to replace the wiring since it's already there.
> 
> i use powerbox controllers. i have on erased for 60amps and another rated for 40amps; at 220v. they are the best in my opinion; but pretty expensive. i've never built a light controller before but plenty of guys on here have. just make sure you buy quality contactors and relays. and test the unit with something before you go plugging all your equipment into it.


A rated load of 65 amps is a rated load of 65 amps.Makes no difference if it is 120 volts or 220 volts.
220 volts will pull half the amps of 110 volts..It will not however double the amps That a conductor will hold.
1000 watts of power from 110 volt and 1000 watts of power from 220 is still 1000 watts of power consumption.The only difference is the 220 volt will draw only half of the amps.
Example a 30 amp breaker will hold three 1000 watt bulbs at 10 amps..but will hold 6 of them at 5 amps each.In theory.
I never max out a circuit to the extent of its breaker or wire.I try to keep it at no more than 75% of its rated amp rating.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 11, 2014)

max420thc said:


> According to the national electrical code i wouldnt use 2 awg wire for 200 amps.I understand the heat has to do with the capacity of how many amps the wire will hold along with the insulation of the wire.
> 2 awg wire,,according to the code would not be safe.You can do what you want im sure..but burning up your grow because you saved a couple of bucks on wire would really suck.
> Im just siting code from NEC.I just dont go outside of that code.For allot of obvious reasons.
> Im not telling anyone they are stupid.So please dont take this wrong.If I were to go outside this code..and someones shit burned up..guess who gets in huge trouble? ME.
> I have yet to burn or blow someones property up going by code.


i don't go outside wiring code either; but i think you may be looking at the chart incorrectly. with a distance of 50' then #2 will be just fine. there will be little to no voltage drop and #2 wire is rated for 115 amps. i use thhn for building wire and aluminum urd for service cables. i am pretty experienced with electricity and do almost all of my electrical installations for both my grow rooms and the homes we build. trust me...my grow rooms are not burning down because of anything electrical.

new project i'm working on...




160' run of 2/0 aluminum urd service cable to a dedicated 150amp panel
 

all new wiring, breakers, boxes, receptacles, etc..
 

construction


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## Sand4x105 (Jan 11, 2014)

max420thc said:


> A rated load of 65 amps is a rated load of 65 amps.Makes no difference if it is 120 volts or 220 volts.
> 220 volts will pull half the amps of 110 volts..It will not however double the amps
> bla-
> bla
> bla.


While technically you are correct, basically you are wrong...
And Scoobie while technically wrong, is correct....

If you have a 220 20 amp light it will pull at 220 vac 10 amps per leg [two legs of 110 on 220]
If you have a 110 vac light at 20 amps it will pull 20 amps per leg 
So two lights on 110 VAC is 20 amps per leg
So two lights on 220 vac is 20 amps per leg
Ohms law does not change... learn it...

Now being safe is the best way...
Wasting wire, and adding cost to a grow room is also stupid....
Be safe, don't go over board...


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 11, 2014)

max420thc said:


> A rated load of 65 amps is a rated load of 65 amps.Makes no difference if it is 120 volts or 220 volts.
> 220 volts will pull half the amps of 110 volts..It will not however double the amps That a conductor will hold.
> 1000 watts of power from 110 volt and 1000 watts of power from 220 is still 1000 watts of power consumption.The only difference is the 220 volt will draw only half of the amps.
> Example a 30 amp breaker will hold three 1000 watt bulbs at 10 amps..but will hold 6 of them at 5 amps each.In theory.
> I never max out a circuit to the extent of its breaker or wire.I try to keep it at no more than 75% of its rated amp rating.


i don't think you understand what i am trying to explain. i'm fully aware of what a rated load is. i think you are getting confused. i think the table # in the NEC book is 310-16. is that the one you are looking at?


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## max420thc (Jan 11, 2014)

EIO?20 amps is 20 amps...Learn it.
If you take your amp meter..and put it on one leg of a wire going to 220..you are going to read 5 amps..aprox. Running 1000 watts.If you put your amp meter on a 1000 watt 110 volt you will read 10 amps.You will read this on either the L1 side.or the common wire.correct?Same with 220..either leg you will read half the amp draw of the 110 right?How does this change the fact that The wire will only hold and is rated for a given amp draw?Just because you run 220 to it does not increase the amount of amps the wire will hold.According to code.
You think just because you ran 220 volts through a cable you can double the rate of the amount of amps the cable will hold? HELL NO.You can double the amount of watts though that can be run through the wire.
I used the general wiring section of the code for reference.
Ive got a pile of work to do.But on page 70-125 under residential wiring.Table 310-15(b)(6)
3 wire in single phase dwelling service.
It has number 4 copper and no 2 alum holding 100 amp feeder service rating.
With 2/0 copper and 4/0 alum holding 200 amps.I stand corrected.
I dont think i was looking at the code wrong.Just a different code from residential.I was looking at the general code.
Its been a long time since ive cracked the NEC..it had dust all over it.


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## Stevie51 (Jan 11, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> a useful tool I found. http://www.csgnetwork.com/wiresizecalc.html


That link you posted is more worthless than a box of rocks. You should use NEC Table 310.16 or the newer 2011 edition NEC Table 310.15(B)(16). If you are a DIY, I suggest that you should stick to using the 60 degree Celsius column, unless advised by a License Electrician to use the 75 degree Celsius column. Do not use the 90 degree Celsius column, unless you are using that column for derating calculations. I am not a License Electrician but I did stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. The NEC Tables does not take into consideration voltage drop, so you will need to use a voltage drop calculator to determine if your final voltage is within the recommended voltage drop, however I feel that will not be necessary for length of 50 feet and under.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 11, 2014)

max420thc said:


> EIO?20 amps is 20 amps...Learn it.
> If you take your amp meter..and put it on one leg of a wire going to 220..you are going to read 5 amps..aprox. Running 1000 watts.If you put your amp meter on a 1000 watt 110 volt you will read 10 amps.You will read this on either the L1 side.or the common wire.correct?Same with 220..either leg you will read half the amp draw of the 110 right?How does this change the fact that The wire will only hold and is rated for a given amp draw?Just because you run 220 to it does not increase the amount of amps the wire will hold.According to code.
> You think just because you ran 220 volts through a cable you can double the rate of the amount of amps the cable will hold? HELL NO.You can double the amount of watts though that can be run through the wire.
> I used the general wiring section of the code for reference.
> ...


i've been doing this for 10 years and we wire up commercial UPS systems through transfer bypass switches to 40kW water cooled generators. we do all of own service connections and residential wiring. if anything...i wire above code almost all of the time. in my houses, grow rooms, and spec homes i use #10 wire on 30amp breakers to 20amp outlets in every room. i don't need a lesson on residential electricity cause i do it every day.

you don't understand the principal of 2 legs; which is the point of the discrepancy between our views. you are confusing current and draw. 2 legs means 2 times the draw on that circuit. just at a slower current.


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## Greenthumbskunk (Jan 11, 2014)

Wouldn't how many watts you can carry and also amperage have to do with the length of the run of wire? 

Pretty sure 14/3 couldn't carry a 15 amp load over 2 miles away. The shorter the wire the more it can carry. Just look at buse fuses, see the amp rating of em and look how small that wire is. 
Here at work everything is run off of 480 in the main plant and it's more in our new addition. Some of the wire carrying these amounts of current short distances is not very big at all. We have some cable run supplying power to presses that are as big as 3" thick. It's funny how current works and it's an art to understand it.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 11, 2014)

Greenthumbskunk said:


> Wouldn't how many watts you can carry and also amperage have to do with the length of the run of wire?
> 
> Pretty sure 14/3 couldn't carry a 15 amp load over 2 miles away. The shorter the wire the more it can carry. Just look at buse fuses, see the amp rating of em and look how small that wire is.
> Here at work everything is run off of 480 in the main plant and it's more in our new addition. Some of the wire carrying these amounts of current short distances is not very big at all. We have some cable run supplying power to presses that are as big as 3" thick. It's funny how current works and it's an art to understand it.


you get voltage drop on longer distances. won't affect you on anything under 50' though. it's not a difference of how much you can carry...it's how much you will lose. really it's for service drops from someone's meter on the road back to a house way back on a property. nothing within a residential unit will pertain to this.


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## max420thc (Jan 11, 2014)

You got one leg..l1 that holds 120 volts..the force of electricity.Then you have a second leg..sometimes called L2 this also has another 120 volts.Now we are hitting the appliance with 240 volts..or twice the force that we hit 120 on.In theory you are hitting the head of the nail with a hammer that weights two pounds in stead of one pound.
Driving the nail easier twice as far into the wood.
For the most part the size of the wire and how many amps is written right on the side of the wire..you just size it to the breaker and appliance and its done.You would have to be pulling the wire a long ways to exceed what most of us would ever see in order to consider additional wire size for length of run other than what is specified on the side of the wire.
I agree with over sizing the wire and over doing things some.
Volts=force
Amps =flow
watts=use
Ive seen men blown up and catch on fire..ive been blown across a roof and didnt even get into the power..i was about a inch away(20 ton rooftop cooling unit)..grounded good and had 440 three phase blow me down and burn the tip of my finger nail off.That was time for a break and my lucky day.Im still alive.
Some power jerk electrified a ceiling grid my buddy got into wiring up some control wire..blew all of his joints apart in his body..the only thing that saved him is another one of my work buddies kicked the ladder he was on out from under him.
All of these things happened with three phase.


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## Sand4x105 (Jan 11, 2014)

Dude... this is the worst analogy I have ever read....



> You got one leg..l1 that holds 120 volts..the force of electricity.Then you have a second leg..sometimes called L2 this also has another 120 volts.Now we are hitting the appliance with 240 volts..or twice the force that we hit 120 on.In theory you are hitting the head of the nail with a hammer that weights two pounds in stead of one pound.
> Driving the nail easier twice as far into the wood.​



​


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## Sand4x105 (Jan 11, 2014)

Power is what?
It does not equal voltage...or does it as you say?
Come on now... what's the answer....
Come on now this is a stoner forum...
You _*trying*_ to confuse the masses?


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## xLtdEspVx (Jan 12, 2014)

*Basement Grow Q's*
Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and just had a quick electrical question. I'm setting up my first grow room and right now I'm on a 200amp breaker box. I'm currently in a tent in my basement running a 1000w light and ballast. Now, my basement has three main circuits, minus washers dryers and the sump pump. Both are on 120V breakers. One for lights, one for receptacles, and another for a GFI unit from my satellite company, this circuit also has my outside receptacles on it, which are never used. Now the problem with the lighting circuit is all the outlets are on light switches. I was wondering if I could attach my ballast to this outlet and use the light switch to flick it on and off? Also, running only one 1000 watt how should I go about plugging it into the circuit? e.g) power strip, direct to outlet, or something else. any help would be appreciated!


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## grapeoptimo (Jan 14, 2014)

This is an odd question, I have an old hydrofarm magnetic ballast 1000w HPS is what it says on it and what the stuff on the inside says, after I noticed this I stopped doing the following. I had a 400W MH plugged into it and running in my basement for a month or so, with really no issues. How is this possible? How does it work? IS it SAFE?


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## xLtdEspVx (Jan 14, 2014)

grapeoptimo said:


> This is an odd question, I have an old hydrofarm magnetic ballast 1000w HPS is what it says on it and what the stuff on the inside says, after I noticed this I stopped doing the following. I had a 400W MH plugged into it and running in my basement for a month or so, with really no issues. How is this possible? How does it work? IS it SAFE?


Yeah that's really not a good idea, First of all your running the wrong bulb on Ballast.. An HPS should be used for an HPS only.(They make cheap and reliable switchable magnetic ballasts if you're interested in that) You're other issue is its giving off WAY too much wattage for that bulb. The bulb will blow, its just a matter of time, and with that much power you do NOT want to be around the grow space when it happens. The chemicals in the bulb are real bad for you never-mind the shattering glass that could do some damage.. If I were you I would consider getting a new ballast.. look at something like this. http://www.amazon.com/Virtual-Sun-VS400WMB-400-Watt-Magnetic/dp/B005M96O5E/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1389718688&sr=8-15&keywords=400w+magnetic+ballast 

Also, just for future reference, with magnetic ballasts you HAVE to use the right size bulb with the right size ballasts. Most Digital ballasts however can alternate between bulb sizes, and have dimming functions but are much more expensive.


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## augusto1 (Jan 14, 2014)

How many amps can be drawn from a 25 kva transformer? I am asking because I have seen three houses connected to a 25 Kva transformer and all three houses have 200 amps main breaker.

Thanks In Advance.


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## Nookies (Jan 14, 2014)

So assuming my room is wired to only handle 15 amps and assuming I have a 15 amp breaker. How much would it cost to just have an electrician come in and rewire just my room to be able to handle 20 amps? It's possible to just do one room right?!

I'm still a bit paranoid/concerned with the amp drawage but im sure ima be fine. I'm sure most rookie growers here have a 400 watt/fans plugged up in a room with other electronics going :S 

Definitely going to surpass the 80% rule of thumb thing and ill be cutting it close. Hopefully if it goes over it just flips my breaker and no fire occurs :S

All that said, I pulled out one of my light sockets and was unable to identify the wiring colors/gauge because the wires were inside a thick, wire one. I'm guessing to protect them :S


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 15, 2014)

augusto1 said:


> How many amps can be drawn from a 25 kva transformer? I am asking because I have seen three houses connected to a 25 Kva transformer and all three houses have 200 amps main breaker.
> 
> Thanks In Advance.


i'm not a line or pole man but a kVa I believe is a kilo volt ampere. I don't think it is based on amps. either way, if you only have 3 houses on a 25 transformer you are just fine. I have 4 houses on a 15 and I personally have 3 200amp meters.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 15, 2014)

Nookies said:


> So assuming my room is wired to only handle 15 amps and assuming I have a 15 amp breaker. How much would it cost to just have an electrician come in and rewire just my room to be able to handle 20 amps? It's possible to just do one room right?!
> 
> I'm still a bit paranoid/concerned with the amp drawage but im sure ima be fine. I'm sure most rookie growers here have a 400 watt/fans plugged up in a room with other electronics going :S
> 
> ...


cost of an electrician can range from $50 an hour to $150. just depends. 

you might just be able to swap out the breaker on you loadcenter for a 20amp one. most wiring is 14 or 12 gauge and they both can carry 20amps. take a look at the wire size leading into the actual breaker on the panel. it should say what size it is. 

also, remember that most residential receptacles are only rated for 10 or 15 amps so don't go plugging everything into the same receptacle.


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## DroidBoy (Jan 20, 2014)

I have a question buds i need to extend a few cables for items like fans all are under 50 watts and have 5amp fuses in them so i bought some wire and connectors to join the wire because some 1 told me it was extremely dangerous to just join wires together and wrap with tape, all the wire says on it is 0.75mm i need to extend the wire by about 5-10 feet is this possible and what wire should i buy i am sorry if this is a silly question i have tried to work it out but havent a clue thanks also have a 4 inch inline fan i need to extend that too is the same size wire and has same amp fuse


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 20, 2014)

DroidBoy said:


> I have a question buds i need to extend a few cables for items like fans all are under 50 watts and have 5amp fuses in them so i bought some wire and connectors to join the wire because some 1 told me it was extremely dangerous to just join wires together and wrap with tape, all the wire says on it is 0.75mm i need to extend the wire by about 5-10 feet is this possible and what wire should i buy i am sorry if this is a silly question i have tried to work it out but havent a clue thanks also have a 4 inch inline fan i need to extend that too is the same size wire and has same amp fuse


Junction inside an approved box using approved connectors for cable with approved twist on connectors (wire nuts).


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## bicit (Jan 21, 2014)

Is it possible to split a 240v line into two 120v lines?


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## joe macclennan (Jan 21, 2014)

yes, just make sure you don't overload each individual leg


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## East Coast (Jan 21, 2014)

How do you split it then?


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 21, 2014)

bicit said:


> Is it possible to split a 240v line into two 120v lines?


If it has a neutral yes.


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## East Coast (Jan 21, 2014)

Voltage is voltage - splitting it will still be 220v from the supplier?


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## joe macclennan (Jan 21, 2014)

each leg is 110 

neutral is neutral


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 21, 2014)

East Coast said:


> Voltage is voltage - splitting it will still be 220v from the supplier?


On split phase system:

Phase A to B = 240 vac
Phase A or B to Neutral is 120 vac


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## Secure2000 (Jan 21, 2014)

A 60W Light socket is safely rated to power a light source of no more than 60W. Using anything above 60W will cause the socket to overheat at best, or burst into flames at worst.


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 21, 2014)

augusto1 said:


> How many amps can be drawn from a 25 kva transformer? I am asking because I have seen three houses connected to a 25 Kva transformer and all three houses have 200 amps main breaker.
> 
> Thanks In Advance.


25kva transformer or generator rates at 104 amps

Kva is power calculated with rms values.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 21, 2014)

Secure2000 said:


> A 60W Light socket is safely rated to power a light source of no more than 60W. Using anything above 60W will cause the socket to overheat at best, or burst into flames at worst.


do tell more


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## East Coast (Jan 21, 2014)

So its a 2 phase system, each leg 110v - Star wired. Then for 220v you would Delta wire?


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 21, 2014)

max420thc said:


> These are the gauge sizes and ampacity of 3 conductor under 2000 volts.
> 14 gauge will hold 20 amps.
> 12 AWG.25 AMPS
> 10 AWG 30 TO 40 amps depending on type of cable.
> ...


Very bad info.

Your "romex" is type nm or nm-b

Never use the 90 degree column its for derate calcs only.

Al or Cu is a big factor.

Never put #14 wire on a 20 amp ocpd
Never put #12 wire on greater than 20 amp ocpd
Never put. #10 on greater than 30 amp ocpd

Your certification has been revoked.


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## augusto1 (Jan 21, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> 25kva transformer or generator rates at 104 amps
> 
> Kva is power calculated with rms values.


1)If it only support 104 amps why they connect 3 houses with 200 amps maim breaker each one ? 

2)what about if I use the 200 amps that I have available according to my main breaker, will the tramsformer handle it or it will get damaged?

Thanks In Advance


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Jan 21, 2014)

Hey Snaps, I am about ready to wire up my cabinet.....I could have up to 36 cfls (23 to 26 watts each), 4 t5 HO (unsure of wattage yet - possibly 40-something watts each though), 1 80 cfm bathroom fan, and probably some pc fans goin' in there too.....

Question: I have some extension cord laying around that I was going to use to power it...Unsure of gauge...Though one is orange and appears to be rather average, and another is blue/maroonish I think, and is a bit heavier.....Can I get by using one of these extension cords to power this cab ? Or should I be using two extension cords ? 

thanks, SC


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 21, 2014)

augusto1 said:


> 1)If it only support 104 amps why they connect 3 houses with 200 amps maim breaker each one ?
> 
> 2)what about if I use the 200 amps that I have available according to my main breaker, will the tramsformer handle it or it will get damaged?
> 
> Thanks In Advance


Transformer load calculations assume that most homes only use a small fraction of their service ampacity and if drawing more intermittently they assume other services on same xfmr won't be doing so at that instant. The kW rating on a xfmr is usually an all day 100% duty, it may handle more for a period.

Its a residential service not commercial.

Here, where its legal, the poco will drop a 400/320 continuous service for you. They love to sell power.


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## Sand4x105 (Jan 21, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Very bad info.
> 
> Your "romex" is type nm or nm-b
> 
> ...


Your answers are sometimes wrong, laughable, and really put down of others...
You're just prob book smart but install stupid...
If I run #14 awg in free air to power my mini grow room that pulls 17 amps will I be ok ?


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 21, 2014)

I steal power. I have two 200amp panels that are fed with 4/0 aluminum urd cable that is welded to the busbar. runs my grow, pool, welding equipment, hot water heaters, a/c, kitchen, washer./dryer, whole workshop, backyard lighting, pressure booster pumps, filtration equipment, sprinkler system, air purification system, outdoor kitchen, etc... Been doing it for years on all of my private homes. Down here the electric company has no way on knowing. Just tapped right into the meter main unit after they installed the service drop and welded 2 sets of 4/0 directly to the busbar. hid the conduit in the column behind the meter main and branch units. I have two 200 amp meters for my entire house and my electric bill is about $60 a month on a 4000 square foot house on 7 acres. Costa Rica is awesome.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 21, 2014)

lol scooby. I'm sure you'll catch hell for that admission around here. I say more power to ya....pun intended 

there was a guy around here who worked for the power company who did that....did it for thirty years supposedly. 

I know they didn't find out till after he died and his house was sold. The new owners were like...why doesn't this welder make my meter jump?? 

dumb bastards turned themselves in. 

now, with the monitoring technology they have I believe power thieves get caught pretty quick around here.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 21, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> lol scooby. I'm sure you'll catch hell for that admission around here. I say more power to ya....pun intended
> 
> there was a guy around here who worked for the power company who did that....did it for thirty years supposedly.
> 
> ...


I could care less. no one on this forum knows how the power grid is down here and 95% of the people around here couldn't even comprehend how it is that we are stealing the power and how we can never get caught. those are my locks on the meter main that I own so the power company can not enter it legally. plus they don't have the technology to detect the theft via transformers or usage vs. billing. anyone who says i'm an asshole for stealing power is just pissed their living somewhere where they can't do it without getting caught.


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 21, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> I could care less. no one on this forum knows how the power grid is down here and 95% of the people around here couldn't even comprehend how it is that we are stealing the power and how we can never get caught. those are my locks on the meter main that I own so the power company can not enter it legally. plus they don't have the technology to detect the theft via transformers or usage vs. billing. anyone who says i'm an asshole for stealing power is just pissed their living somewhere where they can't do it without getting caught.


Yeah stealing is so impressive. Kudos to you for being the first to figure out how to steal power. Not. Honestly I am not jelly, I have money from my job to pay my bills and still have time to fuck off here on RIU.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 21, 2014)

lol^^ well that didn't take long.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 21, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Yeah stealing is so impressive. Kudos to you for being the first to figure out how to steal power. Not. Honestly I am not jelly, I have money from my job to pay my bills and still have time to fuck off here on RIU.


who cares what you think captain know it all. like I give a shit if you have money? I spend more money on fuel for my boats in 1 year than you'll make in your whole life and I still fuck off here on RIU. you need a job dude? i'm looking for a new gardener. 

like I said before...Costa Rica isn't the U.S. and you obviously don't know the laws here so just stfu and go back to telling newbs how to wire up duplex receptacles you fucking wannabe.


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 21, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> who cares what you think captain know it all. like I give a shit if you have money? I spend more money on fuel for my boats in 1 year than you'll make in your whole life and I still fuck off here on RIU. you need a job dude? i'm looking for a new gardener.
> 
> like I said before...Costa Rica isn't the U.S. and you obviously don't know the laws here so just stfu and go back to telling newbs how to wire up duplex receptacles you fucking wannabe.


Awww I hurt your feelings. How adorable. Your temper tantrums are the highlights of my time here on RIU. Keep it coming.


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## theexpress (Jan 21, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> who cares what you think captain know it all. like I give a shit if you have money? I spend more money on fuel for my boats in 1 year than you'll make in your whole life and I still fuck off here on RIU. you need a job dude? i'm looking for a new gardener.
> 
> like I said before...Costa Rica isn't the U.S. and you obviously don't know the laws here so just stfu and go back to telling newbs how to wire up duplex receptacles you fucking wannabe.







trabajo????????


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## joe macclennan (Jan 21, 2014)

nothing wrong with working the system

honestly, I very nearly wired one of my buildings like that.... I didn't only for fear of getting caught. 

it's an easy way for grows to get popped around here...so it's not worth it.


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 21, 2014)

Can afford gas for boats but steals power. Class act.


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## theexpress (Jan 21, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> I steal power. I have two 200amp panels that are fed with 4/0 aluminum urd cable that is welded to the busbar. runs my grow, pool, welding equipment, hot water heaters, a/c, kitchen, washer./dryer, whole workshop, backyard lighting, pressure booster pumps, filtration equipment, sprinkler system, air purification system, outdoor kitchen, etc... Been doing it for years on all of my private homes. Down here the electric company has no way on knowing. Just tapped right into the meter main unit after they installed the service drop and welded 2 sets of 4/0 directly to the busbar. hid the conduit in the column behind the meter main and branch units. I have two 200 amp meters for my entire house and my electric bill is about $60 a month on a 4000 square foot house on 7 acres. Costa Rica is awesome.
> 
> View attachment 2970198


make sure they don't trace the grid to ur ass daddy war bucks... don't steal too much... in some cases it is best to steal power then pay for it. esp if not in a med state


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 21, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> lol^^ well that didn't take long.


this is what happens when you get a bitter out of work electrician who's struggling to get paid for odd jobs who hates on the guy who's got 40 people on his payroll building 2-3 ultra high end homes a year. jealousy is the sincerest form of flattery.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 21, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> you need a job dude? i'm looking for a new gardener. .



if you line up one of those smokin costa rican chica's for me I'm in


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 21, 2014)

LoL priceless. Keep the comedy flowing.


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## theexpress (Jan 21, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> if you line up one of those smokin costa rican chica's for me I'm in


 if u me and 2 other dudes go we can get a good package deal to san jose :]


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## Bear Country (Jan 21, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> lol^^ well that didn't take long.


LMAO......Yup!


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 21, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Awww I hurt your feelings. How adorable. Your temper tantrums are the highlights of my time here on RIU. Keep it coming.


watching you run around ALL DAY giving electrical advice is my highlight. I tend not to trust electricians who actually can't get work.



SnapsProvolone said:


> Can afford gas for boats but steals power. Class act.


I cheat on my taxes too...I guess i'm a real CLASS ACT. you're a clown dude. don't talk about the electrical grid in Costa Rica and the laws when you have no clue. just makes you look like a jealous bitch.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 21, 2014)

does costa rica have an extradition treaty with the US? 

are you looking for an hvac installer?


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## joe macclennan (Jan 21, 2014)

Bear Country said:


> LMAO......Yup!


damn bear, good to see ya around.....it's been awhile I think.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 21, 2014)

theexpress said:


> make sure they don't trace the grid to ur ass daddy war bucks... don't steal too much... in some cases it is best to steal power then pay for it. esp if not in a med state


Costa Rica buddy...they don't have the technology to trace it.


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## theexpress (Jan 21, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> Costa Rica buddy...they don't have the technology to trace it.


 whats up wit them 3 dollar grams bro


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## joe macclennan (Jan 21, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Can afford gas for boats but steals power. Class act.



and belittling people online is_ more_ classy??


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 21, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> does costa rica have an extradition treaty with the US?
> 
> are you looking for an hvac installer?


extradition yes...got hvac guys already bud. sorry.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 21, 2014)

theexpress said:


> whats up wit them 3 dollar grams bro


come on down and find out! it's the truth for sure.


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## theexpress (Jan 21, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> come on down and find out! it's the truth for sure.


 I donno if my heart can take it... one way or another.......


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 21, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> and belittling people online is_ more_ classy??


Can't belittle an admitted thief, they did that themselves.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 21, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> LoL priceless. Keep the comedy flowing.


everyone in this thread knows i'm a man of my word. I just gave away $2500 in free gift certificates. gave away $1000 last year. gave $10k to a member who's family really needed it. if you can prove a way that I can get caught stealing electricity here in costa rica (without actually ratting me out somehow) then i'll give you $5,000 cash. sounds like you could use it.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 21, 2014)

theexpress said:


> I donno if my heart can take it... one way or another.......


\

won't matter, after 2 bumps you won't feel your face anyway.


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 21, 2014)

Just because you don't worry about getting caught doesn't make stealing right. Your a thief and so full of bs that you should run for office.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 21, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Can't belittle an admitted thief, they did that themselves.


lmao...this guys worried about the electrical company. hahahaha.


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## theexpress (Jan 21, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> \
> 
> won't matter, after 2 bumps you won't feel your face anyway.


lol bumps how............ ahhhhhhhhhh if only u knew....


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## joe macclennan (Jan 21, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> gave $10k to a member who's family really needed it. .


I heard you sent em some cash...but that much....wow! 

Good for you scoob. I am positive it helped those poor folks out tremendously.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 21, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Just because you don't worry about getting caught doesn't make stealing right. Your a thief and so full of bs that you should run for office.


here we go again, another moral crusader.

why would I run for office? i'm already rich.


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 21, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> here we go again, another moral crusader.
> 
> why would I run for office? i'm already rich.


If you WERE rich you wouldn't be here and you wouldn't have a point to prove. Your probably a teenager with a small penis.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 21, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> If you WERE rich you wouldn't be here and you wouldn't have a point to prove. Your probably a teenager with a small penis.


i'm not the one posting 17 times a day in the last 3 months. get your fact's straight. might wanna check out some of my sigs...you'll get the picture. get on my level before you start talking shit wallmart reject!

wanna see some pics? lol. I could clown your ass with 5-6 pics already on this forum.

see any posts from me during the day today? that's cause I was fishing on my boat all day. you couldn't afford to change the oil on it.


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 21, 2014)

Pics are a dime a dozen and prove nothing.


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Jan 21, 2014)

SpaaaceCowboy said:


> Hey Snaps, I am about ready to wire up my cabinet.....I could have up to 36 cfls (23 to 26 watts each), 4 t5 HO (unsure of wattage yet - possibly 40-something watts each though), 1 80 cfm bathroom fan, and probably some pc fans goin' in there too.....
> 
> Question: I have some extension cord laying around that I was going to use to power it...Unsure of gauge...Though one is orange and appears to be rather average, and another is blue/maroonish I think, and is a bit heavier.....Can I get by using one of these extension cords to power this cab ? Or should I be using two extension cords ?
> 
> thanks, SC


bump...anyone here able to answer this question ?


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 21, 2014)

Ill let scoob get this one he seems to know it all and I gotta go fuck my wife before she falls asleep waiting on me.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 21, 2014)

any decent cord will run a 4 bulb t5 and a few small fans.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 21, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Pics are a dime a dozen and prove nothing.


says the guy who has none. I've got watches that cost more than your car. cars that cost more than your house. and boats that cost more than you'll make in a lifetime.

while your trolling the internet this week come follow me as i'm fishing in the Los Suenos Triple Crown. Live scoring (http://www.lstournaments.com/).


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 21, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Ill let scoob get this one he seems to know it all and I gotta go fuck my wife before she falls asleep waiting on me.


don't worry, she's asleep when you fuck her anyway.


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 22, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> says the guy who has none. I've got watches that cost more than your car. cars that cost more than your house. and boats that cost more than you'll make in a lifetime.
> 
> while your trolling the internet this week come follow me as i'm fishing in the Los Suenos Triple Crown. Live scoring (http://www.lstournaments.com/).
> 
> ...


Pics prove nothing. I could go posting pics of the moon, doesn't even mean I've been there much less own it.


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 22, 2014)

SpaaaceCowboy said:


> Hey Snaps, I am about ready to wire up my cabinet.....I could have up to 36 cfls (23 to 26 watts each), 4 t5 HO (unsure of wattage yet - possibly 40-something watts each though), 1 80 cfm bathroom fan, and probably some pc fans goin' in there too.....
> 
> Question: I have some extension cord laying around that I was going to use to power it...Unsure of gauge...Though one is orange and appears to be rather average, and another is blue/maroonish I think, and is a bit heavier.....Can I get by using one of these extension cords to power this cab ? Or should I be using two extension cords ?
> 
> thanks, SC


I guess scooby can't help.

Sum up your wattages and divide by voltage to get amperage.

#14 cord is rated at 15 amps. I think your gonna be at or over 12. Thats 80% of a 15 amp breaker so probably best to split the load on two circuits in your home using both cords.

Of course I am sure someone here will disagree.


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 22, 2014)

And Scooby, i will believe your so very wealthy when you make a verified and sizable donation to this site. Something like 10,420 usd should prove your point that you have money to burn. At least sending some of your Peter Pan money this way would help offset your presence. Thanks and have a nice day pretender.


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## East Coast (Jan 22, 2014)

Like your style scooby - I hope you applied to Google Earth to blur your pad, with all those pictures of your outdoor set up etc......it will stick out like a sore thumb.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 22, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Pics prove nothing. I could go posting pics of the moon, doesn't even mean I've been there much less own it.


15 minutes to fuck the wife? wow, no wonder she's asleep during sex.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 22, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> I guess scooby can't help.
> 
> Sum up your wattages and divide by voltage to get amperage.
> 
> ...


I've made a conscious choice here on riu, as soon as I see the words, cabinet, cfl, miracle grow, and a few other I just walk away and let wanna bees like you deal with the questions.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 22, 2014)

East Coast said:


> Like your style scooby - I hope you applied to Google Earth to blur your pad, with all those pictures of your outdoor set up etc......it will stick out like a sore thumb.


Google earth images of Costa Rica are at least 5 years old.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 22, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> And Scooby, i will believe your so very wealthy when you make a verified and sizable donation to this site. Something like 10,420 usd should prove your point that you have money to burn. At least sending some of your Peter Pan money this way would help offset your presence. Thanks and have a nice day pretender.


duh, can't you read. $3500 in gift certificates in the last year. $5000 on 2 occasions too FDD's family.

https://www.rollitup.org/toke-n-talk/605705-im-donating-5000-fdd2blks-family.html

https://www.rollitup.org/toke-n-talk/646707-im-donating-another-5000-fdd.html

damn you are a bitter old fuck. get off the computer and stop posting 20 times a day. go mix it up in the real world yoo outta work wanna be electrician. you get angry and bitter at someone who has money; I see someone who's rich and for the most part i'm happy for them; unless they got rick by using child labor or something. you're just like most lazy ass motherfuckers who just can't do...so they hate.

i'll leave you with some pics just to piss you off this morning...cause money don't buy you happiness but it sure does buy you a ton of other cool shit...

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  View attachment 2970508


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 22, 2014)

you know have my permission to be a jealous bitch.


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## BarnBuster (Jan 22, 2014)

So, it looks like the tourney starts today, Scoob? Are billfish catch and release? Good luck and keep those pics coming for us dreamers!


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## Nookies (Jan 22, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> everyone in this thread knows i'm a man of my word. I just gave away $2500 in free gift certificates. gave away $1000 last year. gave $10k to a member who's family really needed it. if you can prove a way that I can get caught stealing electricity here in costa rica (without actually ratting me out somehow) then i'll give you $5,000 cash. sounds like you could use it.



I'm poor and need an extra 250 bucks to get the last remaining items for my grow. COUGH COUGH (legit though, entire family is on SSN. Legit SSN, not the 'im too lazy to work leech mode SSN') COUGHS <3

PS: Fuck you im jelly and man enough to admit it..I wish I could have a big ass house in a beautiful country 

PPS: Just image googled 'costa rican girls' .....fuck you x2. :O


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## augusto1 (Jan 22, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Transformer load calculations assume that most homes only use a small fraction of their service ampacity and if drawing more intermittently they assume other services on same xfmr won't be doing so at that instant. The kW rating on a xfmr is usually an all day 100% duty, it may handle more for a period.
> 
> Its a residential service not commercial.
> 
> Here, where its legal, the poco will drop a 400/320 continuous service for you. They love to sell power.




So in other words it is not posible to use (12) 1000 Watts ballast and (2) 5 tons a/c (4) wall fans and two in line exhaust fans plus daily basis use of the house with a 25kva transformer?


Thanks in advance.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 22, 2014)

ok, so I had to google costa rican girls too. apparently the appropriate term is ticas not chicas....me bad


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## augusto1 (Jan 22, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> I steal power. I have two 200amp panels that are fed with 4/0 aluminum urd cable that is welded to the busbar. runs my grow, pool, welding equipment, hot water heaters, a/c, kitchen, washer./dryer, whole workshop, backyard lighting, pressure booster pumps, filtration equipment, sprinkler system, air purification system, outdoor kitchen, etc... Been doing it for years on all of my private homes. Down here the electric company has no way on knowing. Just tapped right into the meter main unit after they installed the service drop and welded 2 sets of 4/0 directly to the busbar. hid the conduit in the column behind the meter main and branch units. I have two 200 amp meters for my entire house and my electric bill is about $60 a month on a 4000 square foot house on 7 acres. Costa Rica is awesome.
> 
> View attachment 2970198


Are you running all of that from the 15kva transformer that you mention ?

How many lights and watts are them in your grow room ?

How many a/c which what capacity ?

Thanks In Advance.


----------



## SnapsProvolone (Jan 22, 2014)

Don't think I would take electrical advice from a Costa Rican. They didn't adopt an electrical code until 2012. Apparently lots of handymen there that think they know what is right and wrong.

http://www.atenasconstruction.com/2013/03/21/475/


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 22, 2014)

BarnBuster said:


> So, it looks like the tourney starts today, Scoob? Are billfish catch and release? Good luck and keep those pics coming for us dreamers!


tourney starts tomorrow. fish half a day today and then there is a cocktail hour and the captain's meeting. you can follow the progress live on www.lstournaments.com there is a link that has live updates and even a live stream of the radio call ins.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 22, 2014)

augusto1 said:


> Are you running all of that from the 15kva transformer that you mention ?
> 
> How many lights and watts are them in your grow room ?
> 
> ...


they use pole mount oil filled transformers here. I think the one for my house is a 50kVa. might be 25kVa. I'll have to check next time I go home. I'm the only house on the transformer though.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 22, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Don't think I would take electrical advice from a Costa Rican. They didn't adopt an electrical code until 2012. Apparently lots of handymen there that think they know what is right and wrong.
> 
> http://www.atenasconstruction.com/2013/03/21/475/


you really are just fucking clueless. born and raised in NY. 2 bachelors degrees and an MBA. worked in Manhattan for 4 years at an investment bank. only moved to Costa Rica 8 years ago. don't even have any latin blood in me. 

but keep talking...the more you do the better I look. like I said before...pics or it didn't happen. you have no pics, no experience, and no knowledge. I can post receipts from our distributors in the U.S., pics of our projects, and pics of anything else. you just sit there chirping away with nothing to bring to the table but a transfer switch for your generator that your electrician installed. 

you spend all day on RIU...I build high end homes with my own money, sportfish, and travel the world. please continue your jealous rants. it's amusing to me.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 22, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> ok, so I had to google costa rican girls too. apparently the appropriate term is ticas not chicas....me bad


the women here are beautiful!!! Tica is for a girl. Tico for a guy.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 22, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Don't think I would take electrical advice from a Costa Rican. They didn't adopt an electrical code until 2012. Apparently lots of handymen there that think they know what is right and wrong.
> 
> http://www.atenasconstruction.com/2013/03/21/475/


I wouldn't let you wire me up a 10' extension cord. this is BIG BOY talk here. Come talk to me when you stop getting your electrical supplies from home depot and lowes.


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## steelheadguy (Jan 22, 2014)

Buuurrrrrnnnnnn

Sent from my HTC One using Rollitup mobile app


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## East Coast (Jan 22, 2014)

What I cannot get over is the low sales tax - 8% ? ours is 15%


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 22, 2014)

East Coast said:


> What I cannot get over is the low sales tax - 8% ? ours is 15%


I don't pay sales tax. if it's on the receipt then they did it by error and it get's credited back to my account. I have a federal ST-3 and ST-4 license since I am shipping the product out of the U.S.


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## East Coast (Jan 22, 2014)

I just finished a building for a guy that imports for the oil industry here in nz, seems a good trade this importing business.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 22, 2014)

East Coast said:


> I just finished a building for a guy that imports for the oil industry here in nz, seems a good trade this importing business.


especially here in Costa Rica where they don't have access to so many things we take for granted. Plus the prices here are double to triple for almost anything not made in the country. A playstation 3 costs $600.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 22, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> tourney starts tomorrow. fish half a day today and then there is a cocktail hour and the captain's meeting. you can follow the progress live on www.lstournaments.com there is a link that has live updates and even a live stream of the radio call ins.



I see it's all catch and release  nice. I'm mostly catch and release too for my little fishies. 
please post or pm me some pics of your fish...I LOVE fishing. I don't go near as often as I should. Especially considering I've three boats  

never done any saltwater fishing though. The biggest thing i've ever caught would be around a 50# flathead catfish. They take close to an hour to land and we often have to pull anchor and let em drag the boat around the river while we fight em. Lotta fun. I usually only fish when the river is at or above flood stage too.....adds quite an interesting aspect to the experience. 

i'd love to go billfishing someday.


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## theone718 (Jan 22, 2014)

is a 600whps to much for a house socket plus fan also 2 mayb 3 120 cfls


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## joe macclennan (Jan 22, 2014)

the question that needs answered first is how many other rooms and outlets are on that circuit? 

shut the breaker off and find out. 

If you have no other major appliances on that circuit then It'll handle it easily. at a minimum it is a 15amp circuit.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 22, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> I see it's all catch and release  nice. I'm mostly catch and release too for my little fishies.
> please post or pm me some pics of your fish...I LOVE fishing. I don't go near as often as I should. Especially considering I've three boats
> 
> never done any saltwater fishing though. The biggest thing i've ever caught would be around a 50# flathead catfish. They take close to an hour to land and we often have to pull anchor and let em drag the boat around the river while we fight em. Lotta fun. I usually only fish when the river is at or above flood stage too.....adds quite an interesting aspect to the experience.
> ...


watch the video in my signature titled "A Fishing Adventure Video" it's pretty cool. lot of underwater footage with marlin, sailfish, dorado, sharks, etc...

Here's a few pics. We mostly do video now though.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 22, 2014)

nice! will do


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## augusto1 (Jan 22, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> they use pole mount oil filled transformers here. I think the one for my house is a 50kVa. might be 25kVa. I'll have to check next time I go home. I'm the only house on the transformer though.


That is what I have a pole mount oil filled transformer and it is also only for my house but is a 25kva transformer, now in the same area there is exactly the same transformer but it has three houses connected from it, even one of the house is a two floor house with two air conditioner and a pool, so that was the reason I asked how many amps can be drawn from a 25KVA transformer without damaging, burning or blowing the transformer. Thanks In Advance


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 22, 2014)

augusto1 said:


> That is what I have a pole mount oil filled transformer and it is also only for my house but is a 25kva transformer, now in the same area there is exactly the same transformer but it has three houses connected from it, even one of the house is a two floor house with two air conditioner and a pool, so that was the reason I asked how many amps can be drawn from a 25KVA transformer without damaging, burning or blowing the transformer. Thanks In Advance


grow away my friend. if you are the only house on the transformer there is no way you can use that much juice. you are talking about 105 continuous use amps at 240v. if you had 10 lights running and your whole house you wouldn't even be 75% there.

on average the electrical draw of a 2500 square foot house during the day is 12-20 amps. you're fine.


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Jan 28, 2014)

Well I figured out I'll could be drawing about 12.1 amps maximum in my cabinet (not including a few pc fans - didn't think they count for much)....That's with everything going at the same time.....I don't think I'll be adding any additional lighting to it but if I did it would be no more than a few smaller cfls......

So maybe I would be drawing like 13 or 14 amps max - that's if I got bigger bulbs which I don't plan on....

I think having around 900 watts of CFL's and T5 HO's for two plants should suffice....

My question is what gauge wire do I need to feed this if it's drawing 13 or 14 amps ?

thanks, SC

edit: also I live in the North East....Ballpark figure..how much will I be adding to my electric bill ? Just a ballpark figure please.


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 28, 2014)

#12 wire on a 20 amp circuit will work


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Jan 28, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> #12 wire on a 20 amp circuit will work


thanks snaps....Yep I have made sure I am on a 20 amp circuit.....So I guess I am off to the Depot to make a 12 gauge power cord.

I have 3 light fixtures, an exhaust fan, and a few (3 or 4) pc fans....So I may need about 5 to 7 outlets....When I run the power cord into the cab what do you recommend I plug it into ? A power strip ? Or should I run that power cord into an actual electric receptacle(s) inside my cab ?


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 28, 2014)

Grab a 20 amp rated power strip and mount it in the cabinet. Thats fast and safe.


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Jan 28, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Grab a 20 amp rated power strip and mount it in the cabinet. Thats fast and safe.


sweet...thanks


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Jan 28, 2014)

Snaps don't mean to keep buggin' ya but the cheapest 20 amp power strip at Home Depot is $148....They don't really have much for 20 amps.....

Can I get by with a 15 amp ? They have a ton of them...I just went over all my math again, and I doubt I will be using more than around 12 amps....I actually figured it to be 12.16 amps, lol. And that would be if all three chambers were maxxed out with lighting and fans being used.


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 29, 2014)

12 amps is 80% of a 15 amp so your right on the edge.

One coukd always use a #12 extension cord that has the three way receptacle. Splitting up your load into a couple 15 amp strips.


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## bird mcbride (Jan 29, 2014)

A 1500 watt plug in electric heater draws about 12 amps. If you install a twenty amp breaker you'll need a specail pluggin' to make it legal. A fifteen amp standard outlet should be good. Don't count the equivalent cfl wattage. Add up the real bulb wattage. 15 amps equals 1850 watts.


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Jan 29, 2014)

I did add up the real wattage.....I figured maxxed out I could be using 1440 watts possibly more if I add bigger bulbs...This does not include the exhaust fan, or pc fans. That total is bulbs only.

So if I use a #12 wire for an extension cord, it has special ends on it that plug into the outlet ? So I would have to change out the actual electrical receptacle on the wall as well ?

Snaps, I think I am going to go with your idea and split the power when it comes inside into two 15 amp power strips...

Also I have a cheap timer...it is 15 amp, however it only has two holes to plug into instead of the standard three (ground, positive, neutral)...The male end of the timer also only has two plugs not three....Is this a big no-no using a cheap timer like this ? Should I get some three prong timers ? 

thanks again guys, SC


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 29, 2014)

Theres plenty of #12 extension cords at homedepot or lowes that will plug into your receptacle however swapping the receptacle for a 20 amp version would be a good idea especially if the existing one is old (contacts get looser over time making for an arc hazard.)

I have a husky brand #12 cord & #12 three-way that I picked up at home depot for use around the house. Frankly I don't bother with #14 extension cords.

Don't think I would use that timer. No model or pics so I can't speculate further.


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Jan 29, 2014)

ok Snaps, here's a few pics of that timer.....

Also, I plan on making my own extension cord....I am going to drill a hole in the bottom of my cab just big enough for the power cord to go in, and then feed it up to the top where all the power stuff is.....This way I won't have excess cord laying around, and it will be totally stealth....you won't see some odd sight like a power cord going in the side or back of the cabinet......I am also considering getting into model trains, so I would have the cab near the trains...I was also hoping the cord and cab would get lost in the train stuff....

yay or nay on the timer here ?


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Jan 29, 2014)

and one last question...

my large fixture will be drawing about 7 amps....What gauge wire do I need to run that ? thanks.



I tried editing, and adding that question to the previous post but it said my message was too short, and it wouldn't let me.


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## white1340 (Jan 29, 2014)

Here's one. I have a building 75 feet from my house that currently has a 12-2 red heater wire running in conduit and buried under ground running from my house panel on a 20 amp breaker. I am maxed out on my power wattage/amp consumption. I am running a 1000 hps at 8.9 amps and two 600 mh at 5 each, plus two small osc fans and a bathroom exhaust fan. I have had no problems running this set up. So here is my question. If I install a separate panel connected to the same 12-2 wire and from that have 3-4 separate breakers running different things, will I be able to add another light or two? Or do I need to add another cable underground to make this happen? Oh and by the way a very nice neat electrical board you have there.


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 29, 2014)

white1340 said:


> Here's one. I have a building 75 feet from my house that currently has a 12-2 red heater wire running in conduit and buried under ground running from my house panel on a 20 amp breaker. I am maxed out on my power wattage/amp consumption. I am running a 1000 hps at 8.9 amps and two 600 mh at 5 each, plus two small osc fans and a bathroom exhaust fan. I have had no problems running this set up. So here is my question. If I install a separate panel connected to the same 12-2 wire and from that have 3-4 separate breakers running different things, will I be able to add another light or two? Or do I need to add another cable underground to make this happen? Oh and by the way a very nice neat electrical board you have there.


Your 12-2 feed from the service is limited to the 20 amp breaker (max for #12). No way around that. If you can fish another conductor you could add a neutral and then effectively double your wattage by changing the feed to 240v. Then you would use a small panel to break that out into 120v and 240v as required.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 29, 2014)

white1340 said:


> Here's one. I have a building 75 feet from my house that currently has a 12-2 red heater wire running in conduit and buried under ground running from my house panel on a 20 amp breaker. I am maxed out on my power wattage/amp consumption. I am running a 1000 hps at 8.9 amps and two 600 mh at 5 each, plus two small osc fans and a bathroom exhaust fan. I have had no problems running this set up. So here is my question. If I install a separate panel connected to the same 12-2 wire and from that have 3-4 separate breakers running different things, will I be able to add another light or two? Or do I need to add another cable underground to make this happen? Oh and by the way a very nice neat electrical board you have there.


my suggestion...us the existing wire and connect a higher gauge wire to it. pull the old wire through thus pulling the new wire with it. then you can add a sub panel, a light controller, or just pull some #10 or #8 wire and change the breaker out to a 120v 40amp breaker. then you can add whatever you want.


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Jan 30, 2014)

Ok disregard any previous questions I am just about done...Only thing I need to know is if this wire is rated for 20 amp ? This is the wire feeding my cab..It is daisy chained to two electrical outlets (currently not in use) before it reaches the cab.

o

Also is this 3-way ok to put on the end of my 12# power feed ? Or should I get one of those heavy duty 3-way Husky splitters with the 12# ?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Stanley-3-OutletGrounded-Tap-Adapter-With-Sensing-Light-6-Pack-156820/203406479?N=5yc1vZc4o9

thanks guys...this should just about be it for questions as I am about done.....here's a few pics of my progress.

View attachment 2978842View attachment 2978843View attachment 2978844View attachment 2978845View attachment 2978846


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## joe macclennan (Jan 30, 2014)

15 amps on 14-2. 

and i'd go with a heavier splitter than that thing. Why not just add some outlets?


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Jan 30, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> 15 amps on 14-2.
> 
> and i'd go with a heavier splitter than that thing. Why not just add some outlets?


well isn't that nice....that 14-2 wire leads to a 20 amp breaker in the panel...clown wiring....Guess I'll be running a new 20 amp wire and outlet at some point.

Add some outlets in the cab ? I need about 9 outlets or so....So the feed was going to be split 3 ways.....two of those 3-ways will have a 6 outlet power strip on it.....Already got the power strips.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 30, 2014)

you've just got a bunch of cfls and shop lights in there correct? Why not just wire them all together and have one cord come out of your cab to plug in? so much simpler and safer than having multiple extension cords and stuff to splitters and power strips.


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Jan 30, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> you've just got a bunch of cfls and shop lights in there correct? Why not just wire them all together and have one cord come out of your cab to plug in? so much simpler and safer than having multiple extension cords and stuff to splitters and power strips.


I have fifty 23 to 26 watt cfls, four 39 watt T5HOs, one bathroom fan, and probably 4 pc fans....

I do have one feed to power the cab up...It's the black and red #12 wire coming in and up and the front of the cab.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 30, 2014)

so you've around 1350w total of lights...roughly. Plus a fart fan and some pc fans? 

total of around 1500watts. 

I'd wire all that shit together and only run one 12ga wire and plug out of the cab to plug in.....so much simpler.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 30, 2014)

oh, and I will almost bet heat will be a problem in there. One little fart fan won't exhaust enough to cool 1500w of lights ime. Upgrade to a 4" can fan and you'll probably be alright . It will be much louder tho.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 30, 2014)

14 gauge wire is rated for 20 amps. you just don't want to use more than 75-80% of the rated load of the wire. at 1500w even if everything is running at 110v you are only using 13.63amps. well within the acceptable 75-80% range.

http://www.armstrongssupply.com/wire_chart.htm

my concern would be the firing surge. when ballasts and motor loads turn on they use more power than they are rated for. it only for a nanosecond but it can trip a breaker or create a short in your wiring. in your case you can easily just upgrade to 10/2 romex and a 30 amp breaker. you'll never have a problem and you'll be abale to add stuff in the future. plus it will cost you $20.


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Jan 30, 2014)

Snaps or anyone....Instead of me running the #12 cord into the cab and into a 3-way splitter.......Could I wire that #12 extension cord into a 20 amp electrical receptacle mounted inside the cab ? And if so, Would a gfi receptacle be recommended ? thanks SC


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jan 30, 2014)

SpaaaceCowboy said:


> Snaps or anyone....Instead of me running the #12 cord into the cab and into a 3-way splitter.......Could I wire that #12 extension cord into a 20 amp electrical receptacle mounted inside the cab ? And if so, Would a gfi receptacle be recommended ? thanks SC


you could, but you'd only get a duplex outlet (2 outlets) unless you wired it to a double gang box and installed 2 duplex outlets. in a grow room i'd always recommend a gfi outlet.


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Jan 31, 2014)

thnx scooby....I was going to do a regular 2 receptacle outlet with 2 power strips coming off them for a total of 12 outlets - total overkill.....Maybe I'll go with your idea with the double gang box for 4 outlets.


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## cannachris78 (Feb 1, 2014)

Can anyone help with my elecrical problem. Im in uk which is slightly different to north america (i think)

Im going to hook up a 400w hps, 125w cfl and a tt100 fan

Problem is i dont have a socket in the closet and extlead is not practical.

On the left inside the closet is a fused switch. Coming out of the bottom of the fused switch are 2 cables. One is thick grey wire which goes round the top of the closet into another fused switch (then into a security box) the other wire coming out of the first fused switch is white and goes to the immersion tank.

Am i correct in thinking if i take off the fused switch there will be the ring main going into the back of it? Then i can put the ring main into the back of a junction box instead, placed where the fused switch was. I then wire the fused switch into the junction box, then i can add another cable to the junction box going to new sockets??

If this is correct do i leave the immersion tank where it is (going into the fused switch) or do i connect it to the junction box???


Any help greatly appreciated.


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## Red1966 (Feb 1, 2014)

What is an immersion tank?


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## cannachris78 (Feb 1, 2014)

A hot water tank. there is an element in the bottom i to heat it. But most people just use there boiler and never switch the "immersion" bit on. my boiler is knackerd and wont heat water, so i have to use the immersion. Im in the uk so it maybe the lingo is different.


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## cannachris78 (Feb 1, 2014)

Draws alot of power cos i guess its like a big kettle, and is in theory on a dedicated circuit BUT other things are put on that circuit by pro electricians. for example i have a security box spured off the hot water tank.


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## Red1966 (Feb 2, 2014)

We just call it a water heater here. When you say "most people just use there boiler and never switch the "immersion" bit on", are you saying you have a gas burner AND a electric heater in the same tank? I think everything is 220v there? We have 110v for most stuff, only have 220v for heavy user equipment like stoves, water heaters, or dryers. The plugs are different for different appliances, too. I delivered and installed appliances for a time. Customers got pissed when they found out they had to buy a cord to match their socket.


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## cannachris78 (Feb 2, 2014)

No not in the same tank, im no expert but usualy water is heated by a boiler (i guess flowing in and out of the hot water tank) but you can use the electric heating element in the hot water tank too, is just more expensive . In uk all sockets are the same but cookers and hotwater tanks are wired into a fused switch with no plug and are on a dedicated cirucit so the dont overload it (thats what i have read in the last few days) I have run an ext-cable for the light (not a long term solution) Need the fan in the loft but cant find the ring for the sockets! (they might not even be in the loft cos im in a bungalow) If thats the case then its getting beond what im willing to attempt.


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## cannachris78 (Feb 2, 2014)

oh and we are 240v


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## Red1966 (Feb 2, 2014)

I wonder if the "experienced electrician" still monitors this thread?


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## Sand4x105 (Feb 2, 2014)

Red1966 said:


> I wonder if the "experienced electrician" still monitors this thread?


UK... No way...
I use the "American Wire Gauge" {AWG} and the "National" Electric Code [NEC} I was a Lic Electrical Contractor in CA...
It's just UK I think 50 cycles 240 single phase...
I wouldn't want to advise the wrong thing...
If ya need anything "American" or help with an Electric issue in the USA... I could prob help... 
Questions?


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## Red1966 (Feb 2, 2014)

I have one. What is the approximate cost to run 3 x 110v, 20 amp circuits through 60 ft of attic to 3 quad outlets? The attic is easily accessible and has 7-8 foot of head room down the center until the end where you'd have to get to the part of the roof where it slopes down to the wall. There are two out lets already there but are on one shared circuit shared with another room. Materials and labor if you could.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Feb 3, 2014)

Red1966 said:


> I have one. What is the approximate cost to run 3 x 110v, 20 amp circuits through 60 ft of attic to 3 quad outlets? The attic is easily accessible and has 7-8 foot of head room down the center until the end where you'd have to get to the part of the roof where it slopes down to the wall. There are two out lets already there but are on one shared circuit shared with another room. Materials and labor if you could.


$0.13 in phone calls to local electricians. after that probably $50-$75 an hour.

you asked for labor costs so i am assuming you can't do it yourself.


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## tuxedo (Feb 3, 2014)

*I have a power question: I have a power strip rated for 1500 joules surge protection. Is it OK that I plug my 600 watt HID light, 8" can fan (~300-400 watts), and my 70-pint dehumidifier (~300-400 watts) into the same strip? I added up the wattage of each and it comes to about 1200-1400 watts on max power for everything. I just want to be sure this is OK. I dont have another grounded outlet in my room so I am limited to this one outlet. Ideally I would plug them into their own sockets, but my options are limited. I just want to be sure that if the humidifier, can, and light are pumping full throttle, I won't start a fire or have something terrible happen.

Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks! *


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## SnapsProvolone (Feb 3, 2014)

tuxedo said:


> *I have a power question: I have a power strip rated for 1500 joules surge protection. Is it OK that I plug my 600 watt HID light, 8" can fan (~300-400 watts), and my 70-pint dehumidifier (~300-400 watts) into the same strip? I added up the wattage of each and it comes to about 1200-1400 watts on max power for everything. I just want to be sure this is OK. I dont have another grounded outlet in my room so I am limited to this one outlet. Ideally I would plug them into their own sockets, but my options are limited. I just want to be sure that if the humidifier, can, and light are pumping full throttle, I won't start a fire or have something terrible happen.
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks! *


Assuming your 120v north america. 1400/120=11.66 Your close to the limit. It a breaker trips then you have too much on that vircuit. 12a is 80% of a 15a feed. If your strip is cheap I would consider an upgrade.


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## Medical User (Feb 4, 2014)

How many 55 watt CFLs can I run on a single 15 amp circuit


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## SnapsProvolone (Feb 4, 2014)

Medical User said:


> How many 55 watt CFLs can I run on a single 15 amp circuit


26.

120 x 15 x 0.8 / 55


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## white1340 (Feb 5, 2014)

Hi, I have a 220v cable running underground to my building (75 feet from my house) that runs a construction heater that I don't use or need. It's a simple red cable with one red wire, a black one and a ground. Is there a way to split that off so that it will be 110v?


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Feb 5, 2014)

white1340 said:


> Hi, I have a 220v cable running underground to my building (75 feet from my house) that runs a construction heater that I don't use or need. It's a simple red cable with one red wire, a black one and a ground. Is there a way to split that off so that it will be 110v?


yes, hire an electrician. will cost you about $100 depending on what electricians charge in your area. if you are looking to do it yourself then remember rule #1...TURN OFF THE MAIN BREAKER BEFORE DOING ANY WORK!!!


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## white1340 (Feb 5, 2014)

Sorry don't know any electricans well enough to see the contents of my building.


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## ExileOnMainStreet (Feb 5, 2014)

white1340 said:


> Hi, I have a 220v cable running underground to my building (75 feet from my house) that runs a construction heater that I don't use or need. It's a simple red cable with one red wire, a black one and a ground. Is there a way to split that off so that it will be 110v?


That cable is going to have 4 conductors: black, white, green (or bare copper) and either red or blue. The black and the red or blue are your two 110 volt phases. Just like 110 wiring, the white is neutral and the green (or bare) is ground.

This is how I did mine with a 50A (formerly a furnace, I think) outlet and an appliance cord:


I used one of the legs to feed a 110V 20A outlet for my table saw and the other feeds the 15A 2-gang outlet above it and a few more down the line.
The 20A outlet also houses the splice that feeds the 15A run, but if I were to do it again I would give myself more room by putting the single 20A outlet in a double box with a single cover plate.

My panel had a 50A double breaker that I replaced with a 15 and a 20. Otherwise, those circuits are still protected at 50A. Breakers are pretty easy to change out - obviously, be sure to kill the main and leave its cover on when you remove the panel cover because those two terminals will still be hot (and unfused) from the meter pan.

I ought to have run BX where the appliance cord is and for all the exposed romex - I used what I had (same with the boxes). 
If you are buying materials anyway, you may as well use the right stuff. Because I rent, everything will be pulled when I leave.


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## bird mcbride (Feb 5, 2014)

The two large wires coming into the main breaker are hot off the pole. Other than calling the electric company there is no way you can power these wires down. To be safe wear thick rubber footwear when working around hot wires. I have a pair of what the cops called jesus sandles, when their attempts at tazoring me failed.


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## Maxamillion7 (Feb 6, 2014)

Ok so heres my electrical question, I just moved into a new house and i want my master bedroom to be able to handle up to about 5k watts, not saying i will be using them all i just would rather have more than less. What would i tell an electrician when I call him? What would i say to sound more professional, Honestly have no experience or knowledge in the electrical field my uncle wired my last two rooms RIP. Just don't want to sound to conspicuous or anything. Thanks in advance for the input
Im in San Diego, California by the way.


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## East Coast (Feb 6, 2014)

tell him you are putting in a spa for when all the girls come over for party's - the spa is rated at 5kw


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## Maxamillion7 (Feb 6, 2014)

I meant do i Say i need a new sub panel put in or breaker or what? like i said i have no knowledge in the electrical field.


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## joe macclennan (Feb 6, 2014)

go with the subpanel for a spa idea. tell him you want to get the electrical there and add the spa later.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Feb 6, 2014)

Maxamillion7 said:


> Ok so heres my electrical question, I just moved into a new house and i want my master bedroom to be able to handle up to about 5k watts, not saying i will be using them all i just would rather have more than less. What would i tell an electrician when I call him? What would i say to sound more professional, Honestly have no experience or knowledge in the electrical field my uncle wired my last two rooms RIP. Just don't want to sound to conspicuous or anything. Thanks in advance for the input
> Im in San Diego, California by the way.


not knocking anyone else's ideas put let's get serious.

tell the electrician that you need a 60amp sub panel with a main breaker in the room. tell him you are installing a large saltwater reef tank. large fish tanks use pumps, lights, filters, and chillers. they consume a lot of electricity and are something very common that you would find in a master bedroom. then when you know where everything is going to be setup you can do some basic wiring yourself or have the electrician do it before you put any equipment in there.

60amps will be plenty to run 5k watts, a/c, fans, etc..


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## petedav (Feb 6, 2014)

hi there bricktown73, im from the uk, the electric company around here have just put the new SMART METER at my home. my question is ,is there anything that can be done so i can keep growing??
is there any way around this?


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## K.I.S.S (Feb 8, 2014)

So it took me awhile... But I finally read through enough of this thread to answer my question . More importantly I understand it. I mean I really, really understand it now. I was able to run my 8/3 line from my main load center to a sub panel in my garage. With no real prior electrical experience I was able to grasp the concept and incorporate it safely into my room. The sub panel is a (4 )space load center upgradable to an (* space. I was also able to run an MLC-8xt from that sub load center off of a 40amp 2pole breaker. I know that the MLC is rated for 50amp but at no time will I ever come close to pulling that much draw. i was also able to open up the MLC-8xt and spliced into the 120 "hot' timer trigger cord, which I connected back to the timer and to the bottom relay. Giving me (4) outlets now run off the timer "top relay" and (4) outlets that stay live "bottom relay". This will allow me to add a 240 ac in the future without running any more outlets. 

Total cost was around $300.. But I could have slashed that down significantly. I did not know that I could have gone to my local ma and pop electric shop to just ask for a specific amount of romex and pulled the rookie move of buying like 100+ feet of it from homo de pot. If only I had read a few more pages 

I would just like to say thank you for all of the electricians and electrical engineers who contributed to this thread and making sure people are doing things safe or getting professional help. 


TO ALL MY SPARKEYS!!! I FN LOVE YOU GUYS. 

p.s 

first post

My garage is so fucking bright... I SEE THE LIGHT BITCHES!!!


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## 670420grower (Feb 8, 2014)

Hey Bricktown73,

I am a newbie to indoor growing and just got a tad question about ballasts. Currently running two 400 watts grow lights in a 6.5' x 6.5' x 6.5 Grow tent and will be upgrading to two 600 watt Grow Light Kits and just needed to know if it was possible to hook-up both systems on either a 20 amp or 30 amp breaker (with the 400's, no problems so far with power issues. With that, thinking of plugging two smaller fans (rated 1.0 amps), would that be pushing it?

Thanks and awesome set-up with your electrical stuff!


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Feb 8, 2014)

670420grower said:


> Hey Bricktown73,
> 
> I am a newbie to indoor growing and just got a tad question about ballasts. Currently running two 400 watts grow lights in a 6.5' x 6.5' x 6.5 Grow tent and will be upgrading to two 600 watt Grow Light Kits and just needed to know if it was possible to hook-up both systems on either a 20 amp or 30 amp breaker (with the 400's, no problems so far with power issues. With that, thinking of plugging two smaller fans (rated 1.0 amps), would that be pushing it?
> 
> Thanks and awesome set-up with your electrical stuff!


1200 watts of light is about 10amps at 120v. plus 2 amps of fans. you are well below the limit. go for it.


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## ruby4509 (Feb 15, 2014)

i have a titan helios 7 light controler that runs of off 240 and i have my 240 supply comming from my dryer outlet,but my supply only has 3 wires on it and the titan controler has 4 spots to install wire starting from left to right ,it says ground,hot,neutral,hot. so wher do i put my 3 wires i have coming from my 240 supply? please help


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## ExileOnMainStreet (Feb 15, 2014)

Just a thought here ruby, but you might want to start a new thread for your question. 
That way, it will help others find it if they have a similar question in the future and it might get more views than tagging onto the end of a resolved question.


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## SnapsProvolone (Feb 15, 2014)

ruby4509 said:


> i have a titan helios 7 light controler that runs of off 240 and i have my 240 supply comming from my dryer outlet,but my supply only has 3 wires on it and the titan controler has 4 spots to install wire starting from left to right ,it says ground,hot,neutral,hot. so wher do i put my 3 wires i have coming from my 240 supply? please help


Sounds like the controller wants a neutral and you have none at the receptacle. Does the controller have 120v receptacles or the timer need 120v? Maybe you don't need the neutral?


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## ruby4509 (Feb 15, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Sounds like the controller wants a neutral and you have none at the receptacle. Does the controller have 120v receptacles or the timer need 120v? Maybe you don't need the neutral?


no 120 volt at all,it takes a 240 supply and gives 240 to the ballasts


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## SnapsProvolone (Feb 15, 2014)

ruby4509 said:


> no 120 volt at all,it takes a 240 supply and gives 240 to the ballasts


Then wire the two hots and the ground.


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## Stu Toned (Feb 18, 2014)

I have a question about powering up a new grow op..
I have a steel building with 200 amp service inbound. I have 110,220,and440. 3 phase I've been told. And a stinger leg that seems to burn shit up when there's a breaker in those spaces.So I just dont use them..
My question is how much of the 200 can I put in the grow,and what sub panel I'd need.
I'm hoping for about 150amp w/20 spaces.
The sub panel will be 80 feet total from the main--what size wire?
Thanks to all that can assist


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## SnapsProvolone (Feb 18, 2014)

The phase-to-neutral voltage of two of the phases will be half of the phase-to-phase voltage. The remaining phase-to-neutral voltage will be &#8730;3 times half the phase-to-phase voltage, the transformer is connected such that the 'B' phase is the 'high' leg.

You have any pics? The 440 panel is probably over 40 years old. 440 is pretty obsolete, all 460/480 now.

Sounds like a single transformer, delta with a bitch (high) leg. The high leg will have more voltage potential. Also the center tapped neutral is usually limited to 5% of kva.


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## peoples (Feb 18, 2014)

Sup fellow growers!

I am currently hooking up a new system and bought a electrical panel for my six lamps.
All the wiring was already done exept the cabel from the outlet.

The only fuse that did not have wiring was the "General" and it was wired to the one next to it.
Am I right to just connect a wire from my main circuit to this one ?

On the photos is the one up in the left corner.
I plan to run around 5-6000watt on this panel.


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## 670420grower (Feb 21, 2014)

Awesome Scoob, appreciate the feedback.


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## Closetgardner (Feb 21, 2014)

Hey bricktown, im planning on growing in an attic. Instead of running an extension cord from a socket in the house, I thought about a socket in the attic. 

After reading a bit I understand the socket would have to be wired into the main breaker for the house?
Any chance you could walk me through doing this? Or will to be to difficult?
The main breaker is on the ground floor of the house


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Feb 21, 2014)

Closetgardner said:


> Hey bricktown, im planning on growing in an attic. Instead of running an extension cord from a socket in the house, I thought about a socket in the attic.
> 
> After reading a bit I understand the socket would have to be wired into the main breaker for the house?
> Any chance you could walk me through doing this? Or will to be to difficult?
> The main breaker is on the ground floor of the house


do you have any other sub panels in the house? sometimes on a 2 story house you'll see a 200amp main panel on the first floor and a 100amp sub panel on the 2nd floor or sometimes in the basement.

i could walk you through this pretty easily. first real question is how much light are you going to be using?


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## Closetgardner (Feb 21, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> do you have any other sub panels in the house? sometimes on a 2 story house you'll see a 200amp main panel on the first floor and a 100amp sub panel on the 2nd floor or sometimes in the basement.
> 
> i could walk you through this pretty easily. first real question is how much light are you going to be using?


As far as I know the only panel is on the ground floor next to the electricity meter.
I only want to run 300/400w of cfl for veg. And a 600w hps for flower, and the necessary fans for each tent.
Im no electrician so I don't know if thats a lot. My main concern really is, if someone saw a cord coming from the roof into say,a bedroom socket. Well it goes without saying that it would arouse suspicion


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Feb 21, 2014)

Closetgardner said:


> As far as I know the only panel is on the ground floor next to the electricity meter.
> I only want to run 300/400w of cfl for veg. And a 600w hps for flower, and the necessary fans for each tent.
> Im no electrician so I don't know if thats a lot. My main concern really is, if someone saw a cord coming from the roof into say,a bedroom socket. Well it goes without saying that it would arouse suspicion


chances are you already have electricity somewhere in the attic. usually there are lights in your attic and if you have high hats (recessed lighting) then it's run through your attic. what you want to run can all be don e with 12/2 romex and a 20amp breaker. 

is there anyway for you to snake a wire down the side of the wall to the breaker panel?


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## Closetgardner (Feb 22, 2014)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> chances are you already have electricity somewhere in the attic. usually there are lights in your attic and if you have high hats (recessed lighting) then it's run through your attic. what you want to run can all be don e with 12/2 romex and a 20amp breaker.
> 
> is there anyway for you to snake a wire down the side of the wall to the breaker panel?


There's no lights in the attic at all man.
I've had a look and I can take a wire from the attic into the boiler cupboard, then through the floor into the cupboard (directly underneath?) where the electricity breaker/meter is located. 
If you can tell me what things to buy I'll get into my nearest city over the weekend and buy the stuff.
Thanks again man


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Feb 22, 2014)

Closetgardner said:


> There's no lights in the attic at all man.
> I've had a look and I can take a wire from the attic into the boiler cupboard, then through the floor into the cupboard (directly underneath?) where the electricity breaker/meter is located.
> If you can tell me what things to buy I'll get into my nearest city over the weekend and buy the stuff.
> Thanks again man


depending on how long the total run is you should get a 25-50' roll of 10/2 romex. 2 single gang electrical boxes. 2 Lutron commercial grade 20amp duplex receptacle & faceplates. total cost should be around $50-$100 max. you will also need a 20 amp breaker. it has to be the same make and model as your existing breakers. take a picture of your electrical panel door and then a closeup of the breakers with your phone and when you go to the store just find the exact same ones.


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## Stevie51 (Feb 22, 2014)

Closetgardner said:


> Hey bricktown, im planning on growing in an attic. Instead of running an extension cord from a socket in the house, I thought about a socket in the attic.
> 
> After reading a bit I understand the socket would have to be wired into the main breaker for the house?
> Any chance you could walk me through doing this? Or will to be to difficult?
> The main breaker is on the ground floor of the house


I notice your location is Scotland. I hope the readers of your post realize this when responding.


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## Closetgardner (Feb 22, 2014)

Stevie51 said:


> I notice your location is Scotland. I hope the readers of your post realize this when responding.


Yh I hope so. I never thought about that


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## Sparkz125 (Feb 25, 2014)

Hi there

I have a question about running a full grow off batteries...

basically as my situation stands I'm going to be moving onto a canal boat where we have power on board threw the batteries which are charged from the engine, my plan is to buy a couple (hopefully no more than 2) deep cycle batteries which are dedicated to run a set of led grow lights plus fans, I want to have the batteries to charge up as normal through the engine, which I hope means I won't have to run the engine more than the normal twice a day to top them up..

how possible does this sound and what advice can you give me as this is a must have thing if I'm living on a boat haha 

hope to hear from sombody
cheers


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## ExileOnMainStreet (Feb 25, 2014)

The first thing you'll need to do is a load analysis to figure out how many watts your proposed system will draw. Then you'll need to figure out how many amp*hours of battery you'll need to know if it's going to be feasible. Keep in mind that you don't want to draw a deep cycle battery below 50-60% of its capacity or you'll shorten its lifespan considerably. What that means is that you'll need to install almost twice as many batteries as you calculate you'll need. 
This is the single most common mistake people make in planning off-grid installations.

For reference sake, 2 deep cycle Group 31 batteries will give you an honest 100A*h when new: about the same as a pair of Trojan T6 6V batteries wired in series.


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## Sparkz125 (Feb 26, 2014)

So I've think I have found out a rough guide on wattage with the appliances I wish to get

budmaster 450; consumption is apparently 300w
a couple fans one for extraction and one for circulation both small low power so hopefully no more than an extra 40w I think

from this how would i work out how many amp*hours of battery I will need? 

Also I gather from what you was saying that Trojan t605 6v batterys wired in series would be a better option??


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## ExileOnMainStreet (Feb 26, 2014)

Sorry, that should have been Trojan T105 not T6. It all comes down to costs and availability: many people go with T105s wired in series because the batteries are widely available, inexpensive and are often available as surplus from equipment where they're changed out as part of a preventative maintenance regime regardless of whether or not they're showing diminished capacity. The drawback is that a two-battery bank won't run with one battery down and the one dead (shorted, sulfated, etc) battery will quickly draw the other down as well. If you're buying new, I'd go with 2 12V batteries through an isolator and a battery switch because your system will still function, albeit at reduced capacity, on one battery.

The next thing you need to figure out is what light cycle you're going to use for veg. Because of the consumption, you may not want to go 24/0...or you may want to build your system so you can...that's up to you.
Let's assume 500W for everything. If you're running off batteries, I'd suggest PC fans exclusively for circulation: they are made for use where power supplies are limited and meant to run on 12V, so they can be powered directly off the batteries without the inverter losses that come from running an inductor (motor) off of a MSW (less expensive) inverter.

That's 500W/220V= 2.27 Amps. We now multiply that by the hours of runtime to get Amp*hours (A*h), which is why you need to decide on your light cycle. The 50 A*h of usable capacity in a 100A*h battery will give you 22 hours of run time if there are no other draws or losses. You will have a bit of loss from the inverter used to convert the DC back into AC, but even the most inexpensive Xantrex units are well over 90% (stated) efficiency.

In itself, that's not so bad: you are looking at about one group 31 battery per day of runtime before you need to recharge. It's recharging that presents a bit more of a the problem: if your charge rate is 10A @ 12V, it will take 5 hrs per day to replace the energy you use. You'll need to find out what your alternator's charging capacity is, derate that (usually by ~20%) and subtract what the rest of your electrical system uses. What's left is what you have available to charge your grow batteries...which will probably mean installing a larger (or an additional) alternator.

Some food for thought: I did a refit on an old ocean tug that was used to pull a spud barge to a job and then as crew quarters. Since the engine was being used to charge the batteries more often than for propulsion, it worked out cheaper for them to install a separate AC generator to run all the time than it was to run the engine every day to recharge batteries.


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## Sparkz125 (Feb 26, 2014)

Wow thanks for all the info, that has helped me a great deal to understand some of the measures to take into consideration...

I understand what you mean about the Trojans now, I probably will go with your advice and get 2 12v as your logic behind it makes more practical sense.. As for veg lighting I was thinking possibly 18/6 maybe 20/4 if it all works as good as I hope..

i was looking at alternator upgrades and after a quick research it sounds like a 70amp 12v upgrade is easily possible but I don't know what the spec of the one I have already fitted is, I might be able to use what I have but otherwise if I was to have two 150ah Trojan t1275s that would give me a total of 300ah, of which 150ah is usable without causing damage to batteries, so going by your 500w/220v for example should give me 60hrs runtime before charge is needed... By using a 70amp 12v alternator taking into mind a few things would mean it will take around 3hrs to get back to a full charge? Surely I've gone wrong somewhere it sounds a bit too efficient, not that I'll complain if it's right... Lol... And what sort of price figure comes to mind when u think of the kit needed to make a grow possible? Any ideas of an estimate?


As it stands I'm still quite new to this and all this info is going to help me prepare for this project when I move in the near future, haven't got dates yet but looking around April, so in the mean time I may have a quite a few questions to ask on here,

if anyone has any advice that comes to mind than please let me know.. Everything is helpful 

thankyou


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## ExileOnMainStreet (Feb 27, 2014)

I couldn't begin you estimate what it would cost in the UK. Here in Canada, you'd probably be looking at $600-800 to buy the batteries, isolator, inverter, switch and cables. A basic 100A Balmar marine alternator with internal regulator will run you around $1000, plus 10-15% for an installation kit for your engine. 
That's just for the boat upgrade, grow equipment is on top of that. 

If you have the space, 4D and 8D batteries (~$350-500) might be a better way to go in terms of capacity, though you'll definitely need the extra alternator in that case. 8Ds typically kick out around 200-225 A*h each. They are commonly used as forklift batteries and, like T105s, may be found less expensively at auctions or disposal sales than buying new.

Good luck with your build - I'll be interested to hear how it works when you get it up and running. This is an area where manufacturers are notorious for overselling their products, so real-world experiences and results are always good to hear about. I don't get on here too often so feel free to pm me if you wish and I'll get an email.


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## dxco (May 17, 2014)

oakley1984 said:


> every calculated value in this statement is wrong lol.



3AWG @ 100A breaker IS correct as you already know.
I'm just concerned that you have a grounding problem in your control panel (which is essentially a sub panel)

*Quoted from the guy that knows everything: *
"Just isolate the grounding (green) bar from the enclosure when you mount it and make sure to land the # 6 grounding (green) conductor between the neutral bar of the main panel and the grounding bar of the controller.
*And, again:*
"All your grounding (green) wires need to be on one bar that is mounted on plastic insulators so that it will not bond with the enclosure."
*And you know the information is correct because he said so:*
"My equipment (wire, grounding requirements) suggestions are very much correct"

*Then you said:*
But back to my question... if the bars on my control panel are not connected together, does it matter where i connect the neutral and ground wires? Stated another way... DO all my grounds need to be connected to one bar and the other bar just have the neutral connections for my 120 circuit?

*Then I say:*
The Ground bus bar definitely *MUST* be attached to the enclosure! If not then the metal enclosure isn't grounded and any metal raceways/conduit, boxes, fittings, etc that are attached to the enclosure and also not grounded.
This is some pretty basic stuff -and I know you were questioning the logic behind isolating your Ground bar from your panel.
The Neutral bus bar, on the other hand, *MUST *be isolated from your enclosure (which should now be connected to ground). I think you had also mentioned the Neutral bus bar BONDING screw - which is there ONLY for where a Neutral BOND is required in service equipment (usually your main panel, unless the BOND was made at a service disconnect or meter pack in a multi-family or multi-tenant building). A sub panel typically never has a Neutral BOND.
And as far as connecting the Neutral and Ground wires to either bar -NO, the Neutral wires go to the Neutral bus and the Ground wires to the Ground bus. Even if there are just a couple Neutral connections.

The reason for the Neutral being bonded only at ONE location is this (one big reason): We do NOT want Neutral return current flowing through conduit and other paths to ground. Say we have a circuit run with metal conduit and the Neutral connection became impaired so the current in the circuit is now running through the conduit > Now there is a loose conduit fitting inside a wall cavity > There is current flowing through the conduit so the loose fitting arcs (or sparks) when the circuit is in use > It's night time and a family is sleeping in the home at the time when the arc finally starts the wall material on fire and the family burns up in the house....
OR
A handyman comes along a spots a loose connection in some exposed conduit > He does the proactive thing and decides to fix it > When working on the energized circuit, he pulls the conduit apart and becomes part of the Neutral return circuit, a couple amps flows through his heart and kills him on the spot.
There are tons of scenarios where an improperly BONDED Neutral can cause problems -most probably not as severe as the two I listed!

Here's another scenario about a Ground Bus bar that is isolated from a sub panel enclosure:
(short story) A 10AWG wire connected to a 30-amp breaker is accidentally damaged when the cover of the panel is installed. All of the conduits connected to the panel are PVC and the branch circuits are run with Romex. The pinched wires insulation eventually gives way and now the sub panel enclosure is energized! The grower is standing on a cement floor that is wet because some water was spilled earlier while mixing some nutrient solution. The grower, wearing canvas Converse shoes, standing in the water goes to flip off a breaker in the panel and when he opens the door he is electrocuted and suffers sever nerve damage but has a full recovery after months of physical therapy. He buys the $850 panel & quits taking advise that could potentially be life threatening from people he doesn't know (even if guy has NEC table 310.16 memorized and has art. 250 in front of him while giving out advice)!
Had the enclosure been properly grounded, the fault current would have flowed through the Ground wire, back to the main panel or service disconnect where the Neutral is properly BONDED to ground. The circuit is complete and a breaker trips before any problems have a chance to arise. Nobody was hurt and the cause of the fault is identified and repaired.

If you are unsure of the grounding in your control panel, send me an email & I'm sure we can straighten it out.
DX ([email protected] )


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## dxco (May 17, 2014)

legallyflying said:


> I will say that the recommendations you gave are directly inline with what I heard on other forums. Need to use #3 thhn.
> 
> So my grounding bar on my controller panel is not bonded to the box then?
> There seems to be a screw in the binding bar that serves to bind it with the panel.
> ...



Hey legally flying man!
This statement is entirely wrong and I think you were questioning it-
A quote from the guy that knows everything:
*"All your grounding (green) wires need to be on one bar that is mounted on plastic insulators so that it will not bond with the enclosure." *
And you know everything he told you is correct because he says so here:
*My equipment (wire, grounding requirements) suggestions are very much correct*
every calculated value in this statement is wrong lol. (LOL, LOL) -Not my quote.

If you listened to this erroneous advice you have a panel with an enclosure that is not Grounded! The Ground bus most certainly MUST be attached to the enclose! The Ground bus is bolted directly to the enclosure & ALL enclosures are Grounded.
The Neutral bus must NOT be BONDED to ground at the sub panel. The Neutral BOND is at the Service Equipment (First Disconnect) ONLY. (that screw you mentioned above is the Neutral BONDING Screw and is not used for your application.
If you are unsure about the Grounding and Bonding in your control panel send me an email & I promise not to give you advise that could possibly result in life threatening conditions!

Seems like everything else is cool -The 3AWG @ 100A breaker, 6AWG Ground wire (one thing though is that your incoming (feeder circuit from main panel) Neutral cannot be smaller than the required Ground wire but can otherwise be sized to the maximum unbalanced load (which just means that the Neutral must be sized so that is somebody loaded up the "side" with the most 120v circuits to max capacity, the neutral wire can carry the load).
The 30A breaker would get your install red-flagged by any inspector because the code says that a 15A receptacle can only be connected to a 15A circuit in the case of a single recept'. Two or more 15A receptacles can be installed on a 20A circuit as with a 20A receptacle>
BUT -There is part of art 410 that deals with lighting circuits that says that UL Listed HID luminaires with mogul (or heavy duty) base can be installed on circuits up to 50 amps, using receptacles and plugs rated under 50 amps as long as the receptacle/plug are rated at least 125% or the luminaire full load rating. It goes on to say that the luminaire must be located directly below the receptacle. THis is obviously for insdustrial and commercial high-bay /low-bay lighting BUT the way it reads, as long as your ballast (UL Listed luminaire) is installed below the outlet, we can run up to 50A circuits!
I personally never go above 30A and just on a couple of my base controllers but I could go to 50A and be NEC compliant but only in a commercial setting. Another thing people don't ever talk about is that luminaires above 125v are not allowed to be installed in dwellings, hotel rooms, boarding houses, etc. So any lights running @240v are not code compliant anyway (a good comeback when some jerk starts knitpicking about NEC compliance). -That being said, I would not encourage you to run anything other than HID lighting on your 30A circuit(s). AND 4x 1000's will not trip a 20A 240v circuit even though you are running at 90% capacity. We have been using that 5A per 1Kw for years. If you were in the desert & the lights were on a 150ft run of wire & the electrical panel was FULL of breakers running at 90% continuously, you would probably have a tripping issue. It's called "nuisance tripping" and it is caused by the thermal mechanism of the thermal-magnetic breaker over heating (due to heat riding on the wire and ambient temp and the temp of other devices in the panel, etc). Nuisance tripping is more common when the wire runs are long, so a control panel with 24" between the breaker and receptacle rarely has this problem when running above 80% of the circuit capacity.
I've never understood why they didn't make 20A breakers capable of 20A continuously, etc. There are also a lot of breakers and devices that are 100% rated but they are mostly 250 amps and larger (like huge hydraulic 10,000 amp breakers).
DX ([email protected] dx..... )


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## BenFranklin (May 17, 2014)

So glad I am not an electrician..... I'd have fried myself a long time ago, pretty sure. Well.. not that I'm not fried right now! =P hehehe...

Even though my Avatar(which is one of my favorite people in history) did discover electricity.... He nearly killed himself and the boy he got to help him... See, it's an omen.


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## mch (May 24, 2014)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


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## mch (May 24, 2014)

I am constructing my 12x12x12 room in my shop. I have a 200 amp dedicated panel running 90 feet on direct burial 4 wire to a 50 amp subpanel that was for my hot tub. I want to run another 90 feet to my shop just for my room. Can i go from 4 wire DB to 3wire DB to the shop? If so how do i wire them together? Thanks , Mike


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## Stevie51 (May 24, 2014)

You have a 200 amp dedicated panel? What is this panel "dedicated" to? Is it dedicated to a residential home with 240/120 volts service? Or is it dedicated to a shop with 240/120 volts service? Or is it dedicated to supplying 240/120 volts service to both your home and shop (assuming both are separate building structures)? How big is this shop and where is it located, and what are you using for electricity to your shop now?


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## CaliWorthington (Jun 24, 2014)

Greetings, I need to wire up an Intermatic T101 timer for a custom LED rig. The LED system is split into 2 halves, each half pulls a little over 1,200 watts at 10.5 Amps and has it's own AC cable. 120V.

I'm currently running half the system in a bedroom. AC outlets in the room are fed from the main house breaker. My plan was to remove an AC outlet and wire the timer in there, then run a few feet of 10-2 Romex from the timer through some conduit to a wall mounted box with an AC duplex outlet.

Is this the right way to do it, or is there some reason I need to put in a junction box or something?

A PVC 1-gang box and PVC conduit looked easiest for my first go around, but then I read that PVC conduit requires a separate ground. I'm not sure what they mean by that, obviously Romex has a ground wire.

So if grounding will be a hassle with PVC, I could use Liquid-Tight flexible non-metallic conduit instead. I like the connectors it uses, and noticed Home Depot uses it for their own in-store installations.

Or there's metallic conduit, which shields EMF better. I've heard bending the Electric Metallic Tube conduit is actually fun for some people.

Basically I just want to know if my timer wiring plan is sound or not, and maybe someone knows about that PVC conduit separate ground wire thing. Thanks!


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## CaliWorthington (Jun 24, 2014)

I was wrong, the room is fed from a 20A breaker after all. RIU won't let me edit my post above, sorry for the mistake. So without a sub panel, I won't run the other half of the LED system in there. I'll save that for when I build a room from scratch or get a big tent.

I'm still wondering if it's OK to wire that timer in instead of an outlet though, if I don't exceed 12 Amps.

I decided to stick with PVC for the conduit. However, you are not supposed to run Romex through conduit, so I got 3 separate thhn stranded 10 gauge wires instead.

I'm not proceeding with any of this until I get thumbs up or down. I might need to have a sub panel or junction box installed.


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## CaliWorthington (Jun 25, 2014)

The AC outlets are being used for electricity distribution, so in order to maintain continuity, I will install a junction box in the wall and run to the timer from there.


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## Djreed57 (Jun 26, 2014)

Hey Brick thank you in advance for reply was only an electrician for one year haha. I assume I am okay since nothing has tripped for couple years but just want to make sure. I have a 20 amp circuit that I run (2) 1000 watt lights a 6" exhaust blower and a 16" oscillating fan on. I KNOW this is cutting it close to 20 amps am I safe or could this start a fire one day? I tried running an extension cord from another circuit to take the load of one of the lights but the cord and the timer burnt and melted together, was hard to get them apart so that made me nervous. Was this just because the timer shouldn't be on an extension cord (12 gauge). Thank you -Dan


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## Djreed57 (Jun 26, 2014)

If Brick is no longer giving the expertise please anyone with the knowledge please pass it on thanks


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## SnapsProvolone (Jun 27, 2014)

Start your own thread. This one is a cluster fuck.


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## Silky Shagsalot (Jun 27, 2014)

ask snaps dj, he knows....


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## trickyricky22 (Jul 19, 2014)

Hi folks, I'd like to replace the panel in my apartment while its hot and am looking for some expertise. 

posted the long story here. thanks for any help!


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## SnapsProvolone (Jul 19, 2014)

trickyricky22 said:


> Hi folks, I'd like to replace the panel in my apartment while its hot and am looking for some expertise.
> 
> posted the long story here. thanks for any help!


No. You need a licensed electrician and a permit to rewire a multiple occupancy dwelling. No DYI. Puts other occupants at risk.


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## JSJ (Aug 21, 2014)

Question, or problem, for the experts.

My daughter plugged her iPad charger into an outlet in her room. Meanwhile, upstairs in the attic, an off lightbulb starts flickering. I had her unplug the charger, in her room, and the lightbulb, in the attic, goes back off.

I am competent in fixing wiring, but I don't know where to start here.

Thanx for all help guys


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## SnapsProvolone (Aug 22, 2014)

Sounds like someone took a switchleg and tried using it as a feed. Making it such that the receptacle is wired in series with the light.


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## oakley1984 (Oct 16, 2014)

lets see if anyone here can answer this... as im not 100% sure on it

we all know watts = voltage x amperage

now heres the q... i have a connector i need to use to hookup a 1000w ballast so i dont have to do a fuckload of rewiring.

the connector is rated at 250v 10a, this should be equiv to 125v @ 20a correct?

just dont want to overload the connector!


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## Stevie51 (Oct 16, 2014)

oakley1984 said:


> lets see if anyone here can answer this... as im not 100% sure on it
> 
> we all know watts = voltage x amperage
> 
> ...


The connector is rated to be used for voltages up to 250 volts. The connector is rated for a maximum ampacity (the maximum amount of electrical current) of 10 amps. Regardless if you are using 120 volts or 240 volts, you are not allowed to exceed 10 amps through the connector. Wattage is best described as "the amount of electrical energy being consumed by the appliance" govern by the resistance, and/or impedance, of the appliance at a given voltage.


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## glockdoc (Dec 22, 2014)

i have 1 12/2 cable going to a breaker with 2 20amp services, whats the max watts i can use on that in terms of lighting?! plz and thanks


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## spek9 (Dec 22, 2014)

glockdoc said:


> i have 1 12/2 cable going to a breaker with 2 20amp services, whats the max watts i can use on that in terms of lighting?! plz and thanks


Using the 80% max load rule and 120v:

120v x 20A * 0.8 (80% rule) = 1920W per leg (or 3840W total if wiring them together in a 240v configuration).

-spek


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## glockdoc (Dec 22, 2014)

thanks!!!
does it matter if that 2 20 amp legs go into a fuse box instead of breakers that contain 2 15 amp fuses and 2 30 amp fuses...and does those 2 20 amp legs run of them fuses?!?!


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## spek9 (Dec 22, 2014)

glockdoc said:


> thanks!!!
> does it matter if that 2 20 amp legs go into a fuse box instead of breakers that contain 2 15 amp fuses and 2 30 amp fuses...and does those 2 20 amp legs run of them fuses?!?!


I don't quite know what you're getting at, but the 12/2 *has* to be connected to 20A fuses/breakers. If you connect it to anything larger, a fire could and likely will result. Too little, and you'll be tripping them all the time.

Also, to run a 240v, each wire of the 12/2 cable has to be connected to the opposite bar in the panel. Dual-pole breakers are designed to do this without any trickery.

Take a pic of your panel and put it here, explaining what you're wanting to do.

-spek


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## glockdoc (Dec 22, 2014)

spek9 said:


> I don't quite know what you're getting at, but the 12/2 *has* to be connected to 20A fuses/breakers. If you connect it to anything larger, a fire could and likely will result. Too little, and you'll be tripping them all the time.
> 
> Also, to run a 240v, each wire of the 12/2 cable has to be connected to the opposite bar in the panel. Dual-pole breakers are designed to do this without any trickery.
> 
> ...


i sure will give me some time.. thank you so much god bless u and yours!


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## jwizzle22 (Dec 22, 2014)

Hey I'm setting up my first in door grow room... I want to ip the anti with my light I currently have 1 400w hps light with a 120v hook up in the shed. I want to go up to 1000w can I do this on the 15 amp breaker it's currently on or do I need a different power source? Also I was interested in keep the cops from being suspicious with the light bill n all.. how can you help me with that? 

Thank alot


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## glockdoc (Dec 22, 2014)




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## glockdoc (Dec 22, 2014)

i just want to know if i can run 1620w in lighting on this.. 1 1000w 8amps right? 1 400 3.3 amps and then 4 55w t5s....
as long as i have the 1k and 400 turn on separate im good right?


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## glockdoc (Dec 23, 2014)

sup spek, if u can still give me some insight thatd be great!


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## MrDangerYeild (Jan 5, 2015)

What do I need for a simple lighting system ? For building a space bucket.


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## Getgrowingson (Jan 5, 2015)

jwizzle22 said:


> Hey I'm setting up my first in door grow room... I want to ip the anti with my light I currently have 1 400w hps light with a 120v hook up in the shed. I want to go up to 1000w can I do this on the 15 amp breaker it's currently on or do I need a different power source? Also I was interested in keep the cops from being suspicious with the light bill n all.. how can you help me with that?
> 
> Thank alot


You can run a 1000w on a 15 amp breaker. 15X.8=12 Amps . you have lots of room for a 1000w with that setup


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## Babakh20 (Jan 6, 2015)

Is there an easy way to tell which outlets are on the same circuit? I'm renting this house and the writing on the inside of the circuit breaker box isn't the most detailed.


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## SnapsProvolone (Jan 6, 2015)

Babakh20 said:


> Is there an easy way to tell which outlets are on the same circuit? I'm renting this house and the writing on the inside of the circuit breaker box isn't the most detailed.


Shut down sensitive loads.

Start flipping breakers one at a time and go check what fixtures and receptacles stop function.


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## Babakh20 (Jan 6, 2015)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Shut down sensitive loads.
> 
> Start flipping breakers one at a time and go check what fixtures and receptacles stop function.


Genius, thanks!


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## lemmy714 (Jan 6, 2015)

I have a 400 watt hps setup in my closet. I live in a small 2 bedroom condo. Whenever I run the vacuum or any other powerful equipment, I get a power outage. I then go to fuse box and flip switches to restore power. It tends to only happen a couple times a week, but my next grow I will be using a 1000 watt light. How do I prevent this from happening?


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## Glaucoma (Jan 6, 2015)

lemmy714 said:


> I have a 400 watt hps setup in my closet. I live in a small 2 bedroom condo. Whenever I run the vacuum or any other powerful equipment, I get a power outage. I then go to fuse box and flip switches to restore power. It tends to only happen a couple times a week, but my next grow I will be using a 1000 watt light. How do I prevent this from happening?


Adding a new circuit is probably your best option.


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## phillucky13 (Feb 9, 2015)

Great post. Looking into upgrading my grow rooms. I wish to do two rooms 24 1kw lights per room on a flip flop. A veg room of at least 10kw of lights. How much electricity will I need ac and dehumidifiers and fans included. Right now the panel is single phase with 200 amp. Do I need a three phase panel, and if so how do you wire that many lights using 3 phase power? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## DSinatra (Feb 9, 2015)

I'm limited to 2 outlets one on each side of the room. There are regular 15 amp breakers in the box. I will be running a 1k with a couple fans and 2 t12's. I was wondering if me changing the 15amp to a 20 or 30 amp will I be able to run these with no issues. Or does it not work that way?


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## DirtyNerd (Feb 9, 2015)

DSinatra said:


> I'm limited to 2 outlets one on each side of the room. There are regular 15 amp breakers in the box. I will be running a 1k with a couple fans and 2 t12's. I was wondering if me changing the 15amp to a 20 or 30 amp will I be able to run these with no issues. Or does it not work that way?


The only safe way to increase the circuit's capacity is by replacing the wire with one of adequate gauge. For 20 amps, 12 AWG copper is adequate for up to about 100 feet.

If you simply replace the breaker, the wire can overheat and ignite the building from inside the walls.


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## DSinatra (Feb 10, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> The only safe way to increase the circuit's capacity is by replacing the wire with one of adequate gauge. For 20 amps, 12 AWG copper is adequate for up to about 100 feet.
> 
> If you simply replace the breaker, the wire can overheat and ignite the building from inside the walls.


Ah thank you. Your only supposed to uuse like 75 or 80% of the allotted wattage or ampage or something like that? I'm gonna have to try to just run a 1000 with a single fan on a 15ampm would that be ok?


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## DirtyNerd (Feb 10, 2015)

DSinatra said:


> Ah thank you. Your only supposed to uuse like 75 or 80% of the allotted wattage or ampage or something like that? I'm gonna have to try to just run a 1000 with a single fan on a 15ampm would that be ok?


The max watts on a 15 amp circuit is 15X120 = 1800 watts. The max continuous load should not exceed 80%, which is 12 amps or 1440 watts.

so you will be fine with one light and one fun even a couple of other fans one for your outtake one for intake and one blowing on your plants all the best


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## DSinatra (Feb 10, 2015)

Excellent brother that's exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks


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## glockdoc (Feb 10, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> The max watts on a 15 amp circuit is 15X120 = 1800 watts. The max continuous load should not exceed 80%, which is 12 amps or 1440 watts.
> 
> so you will be fine with one light and one fun even a couple of other fans one for your outtake one for intake and one blowing on your plants all the best


how about me i posted pics a page back i believe


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## Kind Sir (Feb 17, 2015)

I bought a 600 watt phantom..i dont understand how to make sure to set it up on 240 volts so it doesnt burn the wires...any explanation?


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## Chester da Horse (Feb 21, 2015)

Heiya'll, I'd appreciate some help regarding an electrical safety question, mainly regarding wire gauge:

I plan to connect a new double plug socket by piggy backing off an existing socket. (240V AC, has 3 wires, I assume its a 10 or 15 amp circuit). In parallel right? I have a junction box and 40Amp rated screw connectors and a new double socket wallplate.

Is the wire in the pictures below safe to use for my wiring? The writing on it says -
* Electric Cable 450/750V V90-L 2006 < 001 Meters > F1*
  

I have a plug in RCD, and also a plug in-line power usage meter which I will use to see how much my grow equipment is drawing. I don't actually know which other sockets in the house are on the same circuit (I may have to start flipping switches on the power board to work this out, will do this when no one else is home)

Thanks in advance guys, ANY advice or comments welcome.

PS: I am running the following in my grow room. at the moment it runs off an extension cable from a different part of the house to the socket I am planning to highjack.
-400W Lumatek dimmable ballast
-60W Canfan drawing 0.7A max
-30W oscillating fan
-pissy 6" computer fan unknown power draw
(all the above on a 2400W capable power board)
+250W dehumidifier which is the reason I am rewiring everything so it can have its own socket


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## davboz (Feb 22, 2015)

I have a question regarding an HPS ballast. It is a 4-tap (120v, 208v, 240v, 277v) and has a NEMA 6-15 plug on the end of the cord. I have no similar outlet in my house and am not interested in doing any new or re-wiring. Just going with 2 or 3 girls at a time. So....I've opened up the ballast box, and switched it from 240v to 120v inside. Now, my question is:* Can I just find a plug adapter to safely plug the cord into a basic 120v outlet?* As I understand it, my ballast will, in function, be now just a 120v device. Do I need to wire on a more typical 3-prong, 120v plug onto the cord? I really appreciate any help.


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## glockdoc (Feb 25, 2015)

davboz said:


> I have a question regarding an HPS ballast. It is a 4-tap (120v, 208v, 240v, 277v) and has a NEMA 6-15 plug on the end of the cord. I have no similar outlet in my house and am not interested in doing any new or re-wiring. Just going with 2 or 3 girls at a time. So....I've opened up the ballast box, and switched it from 240v to 120v inside. Now, my question is:* Can I just find a plug adapter to safely plug the cord into a basic 120v outlet?* As I understand it, my ballast will, in function, be now just a 120v device. Do I need to wire on a more typical 3-prong, 120v plug onto the cord? I really appreciate any help.


yes u will need to do this 
they are going to need the watts of that ballast to tell you what kind of extension cord to buy gauge wise.
hopefully someone answers you, but i had to do it . i use (1) 400w hps so i bought a 16 gauge extension cord cut it and wired them together.
make sure to keep the nema 6-15 just in case you do plan to use 240 in the future 

p.s im no electrician so wait for one to come in and verify with them if need be


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## DangerDave (Feb 25, 2015)

Running 5k on 240 to my 6 spot powerbox that's hooked up to a 40 amp breaker ( only thing on it) been running smooth for months the other day it tripped three times in a hour. After turning my ballasts down to 75% that night it made it throw the cycle no problems. Waited a day and now have turned them back up to 100% - ran 12 hrs no problem. Any idea what could have caused this?


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## MattMA (Mar 1, 2015)

Idk if the op is still monitoring this post but Input would be appreciated .... My electrician friend just left here ... Came to look at my room as he will be adding (2) 15amp 240v receptacles and (6) 120v 15amp receptacles on a dedicated circuit in my room. He wants $500 which is a fair price I think for labor and parts. However he offered to connect my entire room above the meter for the house meaning the hall lights and whatever for my apt building (which is a small 3 decker w 3 apts) so I wouldn't have to pay for electricity. At firT I said Absolutely not that's how ppl get caught. And after explaining to me he has 4 other people doing this for 5 plus years one Is actually running baseboard electric heat on a 1200 sq ft house w no worries. And that it would be almost impossible to get caught. Is this true or am I gonna get smoked


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## Glaucoma (Mar 1, 2015)

MattMA said:


> Idk if the op is still monitoring this post but Input would be appreciated .... My electrician friend just left here ... Came to look at my room as he will be adding (2) 15amp 240v receptacles and (6) 120v 15amp receptacles on a dedicated circuit in my room. He wants $500 which is a fair price I think for labor and parts. However he offered to connect my entire room above the meter for the house meaning the hall lights and whatever for my apt building (which is a small 3 decker w 3 apts) so I wouldn't have to pay for electricity. At firT I said Absolutely not that's how ppl get caught. And after explaining to me he has 4 other people doing this for 5 plus years one Is actually running baseboard electric heat on a 1200 sq ft house w no worries. And that it would be almost impossible to get caught. Is this true or am I gonna get smoked


I would listen to your instincts on this one.


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## MattMA (Mar 1, 2015)

Ya it sounded tempting but it's not like the wires don't lead directly into my room


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## glockdoc (Mar 2, 2015)

you from mass matt?


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## MattMA (Mar 2, 2015)

I was born there


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## chronicboomz (Mar 6, 2015)

I have 2 x 600w HPS with ballasts, and two 6 inch extractor fans. I would like to run them from a 4 way extension lead plugged into a single UK 230v 50hertz socket. Is this a safe or will it overload the socket/extension lead? Thanks in advance for any info!


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## Hoare (Mar 6, 2015)

chronicboomz said:


> I have 2 x 600w HPS with ballasts, and two 6 inch extractor fans. I would like to run them from a 4 way extension lead plugged into a single UK 230v 50hertz socket. Is this a safe or will it overload the socket/extension lead? Thanks in advance for any info!


you've got 1200 watts with the lights. Add the fans. If they are 50 watts a piece you are looking at 1300 watts. divided by the 230 volts you are looking at <6 amps. What else is on the circuit and whats the rating on the circuits breaker/fuse?
Is the extension rated for 6 amps?


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## SGmenace (Mar 31, 2015)

Hi, hopefully someone can help me hook up my new timing board. I have a 8 gauge wire hooked up to a 40 amp breaker in the panel but I don't know how to hook it up to my relay. Should I get a electrician or is this something I can do myself? 

Heres a pic of the timing board and a close up of the relay













Also, I wanted to confirm the two wires coming out of the junction box should sandwich my high heat shut off as seen below.


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## AfricanGrow (Aug 17, 2015)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...



Hi there mate was hoping you could help me with something. Well actually a few things.

Am trying to understand a bit more behind the electrical of a set up.

See I'm am only used to running extension leads to my ballasts ( to power lights obviously ) straight from wall sockets in designated room/rooms as not to short out room.

I want to wire a independent breaker just for my lights and fans etc ( ideally closer to the room ) 

Want to run a 3800watt room
10x10 or 12x12 ( 5x600 hps and 2 x 400 mh ) 
As well as my exhaust fans aircon and fans. 

We work on 220v here in Africa


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## 2Hearts (Aug 17, 2015)

I can never match up the voltage or ampage of pc fans and those small 12v dc adjustable chargers. I always run two in parallel to make it a little better of a match but mostly their way out. Ive always wondered if its safe and what effects mixing different voltage and ampages?

One example is the fans are 12v and 0.3 amps but i run two making ampage of 0.6 in parallel and hooked upto a transformer/charger set at 6v 1.2ampage.

There are many other voltage settings too all changing the ampage.

Thanks


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## nightridda187 (Feb 29, 2016)

I am in *urgent* need of advice before I plug this fire hazard in LOL.
Here is a little info.
8/3 +Ground from main panel on a 40 amp 240 coming into my sub panel.
Then 4 plugs ran on there own breakers (Ones I had laying around)
Wiring to plugs are 10 AWG at 120 and 20 amp plugs.

I want to hook in a 240 plug eventually and thats why I have the 2 pole 30 amp breaker in there. but for the time being I am not going to use it.

I NEED ALL FEEDBACK PLEASE 
Thank you all that take your time to help out with the dark side of electric we dont know o


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## AKGrowAreo (Mar 2, 2016)

Hey folks! Would really appreciate some help with installing my 4 outlet HID hub. I want to pigtail it from my dryer outlet, and I am hoping for some advice/instructions on connecting it. My understanding is that my best bet is to run a 10-2 wire. Can anyone help?


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## Chubesmokes (Mar 2, 2016)

Hey bricktown73 i wanted to ask how would i bring a 80 amp sub panel from the main panel from my home 25ft away to my garage the proper way? Thanks bud.


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## nyceone (Mar 18, 2016)

Hey how can I run my lights from my heater in my apt. Cause my heat is including in my rent


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## rkymtnman (Mar 18, 2016)

nyceone said:


> Hey how can I run my lights from my heater in my apt. Cause my heat is including in my rent


is your heater single phase 240V?


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## nyceone (Mar 18, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> is your heater single phase 240V?


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## rkymtnman (Mar 18, 2016)

i can't make out the specs on pic 307.jpg do you have a breaker panel that you have access to?


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## nyceone (Mar 18, 2016)

The breaker is in the hall way and the one for my electricity is in my apt


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## nyceone (Mar 18, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> i can't make out the specs on pic 307.jpg do you have a breaker panel that you have access to?


That's the one in my apt


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## rkymtnman (Mar 18, 2016)

on picture 307.jpg what are the specs? it's hard to see


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## nyceone (Mar 18, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> on picture 307.jpg what are the specs? it's hard to see


CAT.NO. B3-9822
240V A.C. 2230W
208V A.C. 1688W


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## rkymtnman (Mar 18, 2016)

you just need a multimeter to see if it's running at 208 or 240. that will tell you what light you can run and how many watts you have available. you obviously won't be able to use the heater


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## nyceone (Mar 18, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> you just need a multimeter to see if it's running at 208 or 240. that will tell you what light you can run and how many watts you have available. you obviously won't be able to use the heater


Y won't I be able to use the heater. I have a 400w HP and small fans and cfl in all about 650w


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## bluntmassa1 (Mar 18, 2016)

nyceone said:


> Y won't I be able to use the heater. I have a 400w HP and small fans and cfl in all about 650w


I would just pay the light bill I can only see a fire hazard happening really and how many watts is the heater running anyway? Either way it don't cost that much to run just over 1,000 watts.


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## nyceone (Mar 18, 2016)

bluntmassa1 said:


> I would just pay the light bill I can only see a fire hazard happening really and how many watts is the heater running anyway? Either way it don't cost that much to run just over 1,000 watts.


Oh ok thanks bro


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## AnZu (Mar 21, 2016)

T104 timer question :

- i will be wiring the timer with 10-3 dryer wire to a 30 amp breaker.
- I understand where the the timer clock connections go as well as the 10-3 wire.

i want to know what gauge wire is recommended from the #2 and #4 terminals to my one junction box that will house 4 240v plugs ?

i realize if i put just 120v standard plugs in junction box i'm using 14-2 wire. i'm assuming 12 gauge is not necessary in the 240v plugs.

a response would be greatly appreciated

AnZu


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## ozgreek (Mar 21, 2016)

Hey bricktown I am using 3 X 600 watts on a 20 metre extension cord with a timer plugged in at the end of the cord, is this safe?


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## bobdagrowah (Mar 27, 2016)

ozgreek said:


> Hey bricktown I am using 3 X 600 watts on a 20 metre extension cord with a timer plugged in at the end of the cord, is this safe?


No, what gauge wire is the extension cord if it's not rated to carry the load could cause a fire


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## ozgreek (Mar 30, 2016)

bobdagrowah said:


> No, what gauge wire is the extension cord if it's not rated to carry the load could cause a fire


From what I know it's a 10amp lead, I found another lead that is 15 metres instead of 20 and this new lead is 15AMP do you think this new one is suitable? Sorry to be a pest, I just don't want a fire that's all


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## bobdagrowah (Mar 30, 2016)

Yes thatll do it, whatelse do you have plugged into that socket


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## ozgreek (Mar 31, 2016)

My finger - nah just the 3 X 600's lol - your a life saver mate and if you were down oz I would buy ya a beer. Thanx a heap.


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## bobdagrowah (Mar 31, 2016)

Rule of thumb find a watts to amps converter calculator and it will let you know how many ampa youre pulling then go get a cord at least double the amps to be on the safe side


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## ozgreek (Apr 1, 2016)

bobdagrowah said:


> Rule of thumb find a watts to amps converter calculator and it will let you know how many ampa youre pulling then go get a cord at least double the amps to be on the safe side


Thank You so much! My problem has been solved thanx too you bro - everyone is safe and ladies are coming along well


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## bobdagrowah (Apr 1, 2016)

No problem my good sir just bless someone else with knowledge when given the chance, happy growing


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## badass954 (May 2, 2016)

Hey guys quick question I'm looking to change my grow room around for more space but where my 600w hps is going to be the are 2 plug sockets on the wall about 4 foot up it with my lights plugged in will this get too hot and catch fire or will it be fine or shall I try move it cheers guys?


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## weed-whacker (Dec 8, 2016)

installing a small(600w) garden in the attic, I'm on 240v, am i right to just tap into a junction and go with it or is this smth I should call a pro to do?

currently there is no power up there, just like cables sticking through where the lights are below.


also my fridge is on its own circuit, I'm thinking to use that one, the fridge consumer 418KWH per year.....ow many watts is that?(i got 95w but I'm sure thats wrong)


also dif fuse have dif amps right? who will i know how many amps a breaker is? is there like a code to read ?


thanks


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## Loud herb (Jan 9, 2017)

I have a titan helios 6 i was wondering if i can make my own cord and plug out of it using some 10/3 stw cord it has green black red wires. It's only rated for thirty amps. My controller calls for 6awg 70c 50amps. I'm assuming I should just go get a 6/3 dryer cord rated for 50 amps. 

Also what would be needed to change out my nema 6-15 duplexes I'd like to go to the standerd 120 or 120/220 duplexes would I have to add anything or would it be plug in play?


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## qballizhere (Jan 13, 2017)

Loud herb said:


> I have a titan helios 6 i was wondering if i can make my own cord and plug out of it using some 10/3 stw cord it has green black red wires. It's only rated for thirty amps. My controller calls for 6awg 70c 50amps. I'm assuming I should just go get a 6/3 dryer cord rated for 50 amps.
> 
> Also what would be needed to change out my nema 6-15 duplexes I'd like to go to the standerd 120 or 120/220 duplexes would I have to add anything or would it be plug in play?


The 6/3 cord that you will need has to be ran from the lighting controller to the fuse panel. If you were to use plugs you would need to use a plug that would be rated for 50A . 
I would say have a look at https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/6-3c-thhn-pvc-tray-cable-with-ground.html for 6/3 wire its cheaper than home depot and lowes.


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## Loud herb (Jan 13, 2017)

Yeah i have decided to hire an electrician. Just because I don't want to burn the house down lol attached is a picture of my fuse box that looks to be overloaded already not sure. But not worth the risk.


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## qballizhere (Jan 14, 2017)

Loud herb said:


> Yeah i have decided to hire an electrician. Just because I don't want to burn the house down lol attached is a picture of my fuse box that looks to be overloaded already not sure. But not worth the risk. View attachment 3875731


It is fully loaded and only 100A if you want to add circuits there are a few that can be combined but you really need to upgrade to 200A panel.


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## Chunky Stool (Jan 14, 2017)

Some of my garage outlets have gone out and the circuit has a GFCI outlet that won't reset. Pushing the buttons does nothing. 
Does this mean that the outlet isn't getting power from the panel? 
I'd rather buy a $3 circuit breaker than a $15 GFCI outlet...


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## Lurrabq (Jan 21, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> Some of my garage outlets have gone out and the circuit has a GFCI outlet that won't reset. Pushing the buttons does nothing.
> Does this mean that the outlet isn't getting power from the panel?
> I'd rather buy a $3 circuit breaker than a $15 GFCI outlet...


Check the panel and see if that breaker has tripped first. Reset it.
Next, with the cover off look to see if any of the wiring connections to the circuit breakers have black on them. Don't grab the wiring and wiggle it unless you have the proper gloves. Preferably you have killed the power where it enters the building.


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## Chunky Stool (Jan 29, 2017)

Lurrabq said:


> Check the panel and see if that breaker has tripped first. Reset it.
> Next, with the cover off look to see if any of the wiring connections to the circuit breakers have black on them. Don't grab the wiring and wiggle it unless you have the proper gloves. Preferably you have killed the power where it enters the building.


Looks like I may have a fried wire. I tested the breaker and it's OK. Replaced the GFCI and the problem remains.
The final time the circuit lost power, it was when I was running a shop-vac. It had been running fine for about five minutes before it stopped -- and there was a burning smell. I figured the smell was the shop-vac, but now I'm not so sure. What else could it be?


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## Lurrabq (Jan 29, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> Looks like I may have a fried wire. I tested the breaker and it's OK. Replaced the GFCI and the problem remains.
> The final time the circuit lost power, it was when I was running a shop-vac. It had been running fine for about five minutes before it stopped -- and there was a burning smell. I figured the smell was the shop-vac, but now I'm not so sure. What else could it be?


Possibly a loose wire termination on the circuit breaker. You,ll smell an ozone sort of odour when it gets hot.

Some of those shop vacs pull 12 amps. That's loaded to code limit if it a 15 amp breaker.


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## Chunky Stool (Jan 29, 2017)

Lurrabq said:


> Possibly a loose wire termination on the circuit breaker. You,ll smell an ozone sort of odour when it gets hot.
> 
> Some of those shop vacs pull 12 amps. That's loaded to code limit if it a 15 amp breaker.


I'll check it out. The breaker is 20 amps. Maybe the wire won't handle that much???


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## LegendaryFire (Jan 29, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> I'll check it out. The breaker is 20 amps. Maybe the wire won't handle that much???


Assuming the breaker terminal screw is tight, an easy way to find out would be to use a non-contact voltage detector right before, and after on wire corresponding to that breaker with the panel cover off. This will easily identify a faulty breaker. without even needing to touch anything conductive. If you don't have a voltage detector, a good one to use would be a _Klein Tools NCVT-2. _I have personally had sparks flying from stupidly using my voltage detector before testing it in a known live circuit, so do not forget this key step.


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## noobzilla (Jan 30, 2017)

So I'm building my grow room now and have a quick question ...

I have a 220 line running into my building that is not being used anymore ( used to be for a water well pump ). I'm thinking about dedicating this line for my lights. The lights can be ran at either 220 or 110, so how do I wire up the outlet?

Appreciate the help!!!


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## Chunky Stool (Jan 30, 2017)

LegendaryFire said:


> Assuming the breaker terminal screw is tight, an easy way to find out would be to use a non-contact voltage detector right before, and after on wire corresponding to that breaker with the panel cover off. This will easily identify a faulty breaker. without even needing to touch anything conductive. If you don't have a voltage detector, a good one to use would be a _Klein Tools NCVT-2. _I have personally had sparks flying from stupidly using my voltage detector before testing it in a known live circuit, so do not forget this key step.


Thanks for the tip. I tested the hot wire coming out of the breaker and it has juice. I tested all of the breakers in the box just for fun & they all had power. Since I've already swapped out the GFCI outlet, I'm thinking the problem is a fried wire. What if they put a 20 amp breaker on 16 gauge wire? Would that do it?


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## LegendaryFire (Jan 30, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> Thanks for the tip. I tested the hot wire coming out of the breaker and it has juice. I tested all of the breakers in the box just for fun & they all had power. Since I've already swapped out the GFCI outlet, I'm thinking the problem is a fried wire. What if they put a 20 amp breaker on 16 gauge wire? Would that do it?


12 gauge is what I'd personally use, if you used 16 gauge I would consider that as an electrical hazard as there would be far too much current for that size of wire. So to answer your question, yes that would definitely cause electrical issues.


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## Chunky Stool (Jan 30, 2017)

LegendaryFire said:


> 12 gauge is what I'd personally use, if you used 16 gauge I would consider that as an electrical hazard as there would be far too much current for that size of wire. So to answer your question, yes that would definitely cause electrical issues.


I have no idea, just threw that out as a possibility. My wife's outdoor lighting was plugged into that circuit and it tripped the GFCI a lot. 
Neither black wire at the GFCI outlet have current, even though there's power coming out of the circuit at the box. 
GFCI will not reset (no power).


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## SDK420 (Jan 30, 2017)

how would yo guys setup your lights timer, for example, 60 amps of hid lights, what would you do to setup the timers, use a 100 amp relay? with 120v being the only option


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## qballizhere (Jan 31, 2017)

noobzilla said:


> So I'm building my grow room now and have a quick question ...
> 
> I have a 220 line running into my building that is not being used anymore ( used to be for a water well pump ). I'm thinking about dedicating this line for my lights. The lights can be ran at either 220 or 110, so how do I wire up the outlet?
> 
> Appreciate the help!!!


Is it just 1 light? You will not need power for anything else? The wire you want to use how many wires are in it and the size of the wire?
If you will need power for a fan or anything else I would suggest wiring up a sub panel. 
DO you know how to wire 110v? Do you know how to add a circuit breaker to the panel? If not then call an electrician because the work that needs to be done can kill you or burn the building down if done incorrectly.


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## qballizhere (Jan 31, 2017)

SDK420 said:


> how would yo guys setup your lights timer, for example, 60 amps of hid lights, what would you do to setup the timers, use a 100 amp relay? with 120v being the only option


Why is 120v the only option? You can run 6-7 lights on a 70A breaker and http://www.titancontrols.net/shop/bybrand/TITAN/titan-controls-helios-15-8-light-240v-controller-with-timer_1


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## noobzilla (Feb 1, 2017)

It will eventually be four diy cob light fixtures ( three daisy chained, and one individual ), but for now it is only one light. The building does have a subpanel in it with 3 20amp breakers and the double pole 30amp in it, I wired the building as well as installed the subpanel. I know that one 20 amp breaker is enough to run the entire room, but if I have the 220 and can use it ... why not? The cob panels are supposed to be even more efficient when running on 220v. In everything I've watched and read relating to the DIY COB panels they state that the driver is auto-sensing ... but does running at 220v require a different plug, or are they the same? And if the same, how do you wire up a 220v outlet with a three prong receptacle? Thanks for the help.


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## qballizhere (Feb 1, 2017)

noobzilla said:


> It will eventually be four diy cob light fixtures ( three daisy chained, and one individual ), but for now it is only one light. The building does have a subpanel in it with 3 20amp breakers and the double pole 30amp in it, I wired the building as well as installed the subpanel. I know that one 20 amp breaker is enough to run the entire room, but if I have the 220 and can use it ... why not? The cob panels are supposed to be even more efficient when running on 220v. In everything I've watched and read relating to the DIY COB panels they state that the driver is auto-sensing ... but does running at 220v require a different plug, or are they the same? And if the same, how do you wire up a 220v outlet with a three prong receptacle? Thanks for the help.


Yes it is more efficient to use 240 than 120
Yes if the driver is rated say 100 ~ 305VAC 142 ~ 431VDC you have a few choices to power the driver. Normally a 240v plug will look like http://www.titancontrols.net/shop/bybrand/TITAN/titan-controls-helios-6-8-light-240v-controller-with-dual-trigger-cords
see the outlets are different than 120v to use 3 wire and outlet you have a hot wire a neutral and a ground in 240v you have 2 hot wires and a ground sometimes you have a neutral all you need is the hot wires and the ground to complete a 240v circuit. 
I will use the http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/2252501.PDF as reference look at page10 it shows you the wireing the left side if the driver is input ACL brown ACN blue they would connect to the 240v breaker and the frame connects to ground.
Pay attention to MAX. No. of PSUs on 16A CIRCUIT BREAKER and know what type of breaker you have. A normal house has a B style breaker. 
The driver I linked to above can have 4 but https://www.trcelectronics.com/ecomm/pdf/hlg240h.pdf can have 2 so pay attention to your driver spec sheet.


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## nomoresnow (Feb 3, 2017)

A few questions about repurposing a stove outlet:

220v on a 40amp breaker.
20' run of 8-3 NM-B 600v.
I would like to splice an additional 30' on to the existing wire in the attic and run it outside through conduit to a shed and feed a new panel.

Since the existing wire is 3 wire with no ground, what are my options here? New ground rod at shed maybe? I read you can tie 8-4 wire ground to shielded neutral when splicing but this may only be for stoves and not a panel. I haven't purchased any materials yet so I'm flexible.

Also, what is an accepted method for bonding the new wire to the existing 8-3 inside a junction box in the attic?

Thanks!


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## F32 (Feb 3, 2017)

nomoresnow said:


> A few questions about repurposing a stove outlet:
> 
> 220v on a 40amp breaker.
> 20' run of 8-3 NM-B 600v.
> ...


3 wires no ground is no problem. Start work from shed end and finish at junction box. Attach new wires to exterior sub panel. Install grounding rod. Connect grounding rod the new grounding block in sub panel (you might have to buy this separately). In your case do not install the green grounding screw in new sub panel that ties neutral to case ground. These must be isolated from each other in sub panel. Send wires from new sub panel to junction box. Splice new 8awg wires with wire nuts inside a junction box.


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## nomoresnow (Feb 3, 2017)

F32 said:


> 3 wires no ground is no problem. Start work from shed end and finish at junction box. Attach new wires to exterior sub panel. Install grounding rod. Connect grounding rod the new grounding block in sub panel (you might have to buy this separately). In your case do not install the green grounding screw in new sub panel that ties neutral to case ground. These must be isolated from each other in sub panel. Send wires from new sub panel to junction box. Splice new 8awg wires with wire nuts inside a junction box.


This sounds pretty straightforward, thanks so much.


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## Smellinsweet (Feb 10, 2017)

Hello. I have a question. I have an old bulldog push-matic panel in my basement. Next to it is another small panel with a 40a breaker for a range. Following the super thick orange wire coming off of this 40a breaker, is a 4 prong range plug box. I have a basic hot-stick tester,when the breaker is off no power to the 4 prong. When the breaker is on there is power. The thick orange wire looks newer. Gas stove upstairs so this is just sitting. 
Now, i have 8 1000w lights sitting in the same basement doing nothing. I want to run the ballasts(magnetic) off of this 40a breaker. How do i go about doing this? 

1. Run 8 different 220v sockets off of the one 40a breaker?
2. Run a light controller off of this 40a breaker?
3. Suggestions?

I have no issue messing with the electrical panel as i can shut it off before wiring anything.
I do not have a huge bank account to rewire the whole house with a new gfci panel...

Any help is totally appreciated and highly respected.

Thanks in advance.
SS


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## qballizhere (Feb 10, 2017)

Smellinsweet said:


> Hello. I have a question. I have an old bulldog push-matic panel in my basement. Next to it is another small panel with a 40a breaker for a range. Following the super thick orange wire coming off of this 40a breaker, is a 4 prong range plug box. I have a basic hot-stick tester,when the breaker is off no power to the 4 prong. When the breaker is on there is power. The thick orange wire looks newer. Gas stove upstairs so this is just sitting.
> Now, i have 8 1000w lights sitting in the same basement doing nothing. I want to run the ballasts(magnetic) off of this 40a breaker. How do i go about doing this?
> 
> 1. Run 8 different 220v sockets off of the one 40a breaker?
> ...


It is best to upgrade the wire to 6/4 and a 50A breaker then you can run the 8 ballasts with a lighting controller. http://www.titancontrols.net/shop/bybrand/TITAN/titan-controls-helios-7-8-light-240v-controller-with-timer_1
Or build one yourself but still have to upgrade the wire and breaker just pull the 40A out and put a 50A in its place


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## Smellinsweet (Feb 11, 2017)

Thanks for all the help. I had an electrician I know over to look at everything earlier. Looks like I need a few upgrades to do this the right way...


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## Feirefiz (Feb 12, 2017)

hello i have a electrical question about wiring an exhaust fan to a thermostat and a cycle timer, 
ultimately i am looking to have my one fan, exhaust air during the day hooked to the thermostat, but when lights go out and the temperature drops to the point that the thermostat stops coming on i would like the fan to come on say 5 minutes every half hour. this question has been asked before, and the consensus seems to be adding a transformer, and relay to separate the circuits. My question(s) is/are, could i not just hook up the thermostat, and timer in parallel to the fan?, would a backfeed of power into the thermostat and/or timer really be an issue? alternatively i have considered hooking the thermostat and cycle timer to the fan and just have the thermostat and timer each hooked up to a timer that would have the thermostat circuit live for 12 hours of the day, and the cycle timer the other 12 hours, but then i am dealing with a backfeed of power into whichever timer is off while the other is on, would this be an issue? 

i hope that is as clear as it is in my head, i am a mechanic by trade but not an electrician, a/c still eludes me a bit and would like a second opinion


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## elkamino (Feb 12, 2017)

I need to run 2 inline fans at half speed. I have the 2 fans and the two timers but only one fan speed regulator. Any reason I *CAN'T:*
1. Plug fan speed regulator into the wall
2. Plug a power strip into the regulator
3. Plug in 2 fans on 2 separate timers, running on different schedules, into the strip that's already "dimmed" by the regulator?

Thanks!


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## 619kt619 (Feb 12, 2017)

elkamino said:


> I need to run 2 inline fans at half speed. I have the 2 fans and the two timers but only one fan speed regulator. Any reason I *CAN'T:*
> 1. Plug fan speed regulator into the wall
> 2. Plug a power strip into the regulator
> 3. Plug in 2 fans on 2 separate timers, running on different schedules, into the strip that's already "dimmed" by the regulator?
> ...


What is the regulator rated for? and how much power are you pulling with the timers and fans? So long as the timers and fans do not exceed the rating of the regulator you should be fine


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## elkamino (Feb 13, 2017)

619kt619 said:


> What is the regulator rated for? and how much power are you pulling with the timers and fans? So long as the timers and fans do not exceed the rating of the regulator you should be fine


Thanks for the response. FYI everything is UL listed. The regulator is a Speedster, 120 volt/15 amps. The 2 fans are both pretty small, 4 inchers. Both run fine at 50% (unlike my inlin duct extender), I just didn't know if the 2 different loads would tax the regulator in some way, since they'll sometimes both be off, or both be on, or one off and one on. Thanks again.


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## Feirefiz (Mar 2, 2017)

calling all sparkies! anybody out there?


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## F32 (Mar 2, 2017)

Feirefiz said:


> hello i have a electrical question about wiring an exhaust fan to a thermostat and a cycle timer,
> ultimately i am looking to have my one fan, exhaust air during the day hooked to the thermostat, but when lights go out and the temperature drops to the point that the thermostat stops coming on i would like the fan to come on say 5 minutes every half hour. this question has been asked before, and the consensus seems to be adding a transformer, and relay to separate the circuits. My question(s) is/are, could i not just hook up the thermostat, and timer in parallel to the fan?, would a backfeed of power into the thermostat and/or timer really be an issue? alternatively i have considered hooking the thermostat and cycle timer to the fan and just have the thermostat and timer each hooked up to a timer that would have the thermostat circuit live for 12 hours of the day, and the cycle timer the other 12 hours, but then i am dealing with a backfeed of power into whichever timer is off while the other is on, would this be an issue?
> 
> i hope that is as clear as it is in my head, i am a mechanic by trade but not an electrician, a/c still eludes me a bit and would like a second opinion


I don't recommend you installing a thermostat & timer in parallel to your fan. For one you would have to make a custom Y cable that plugs into both. Secondly if something malfunctions, which happens you got problems. Just saying..., depending on where you plug the timer and thermostat into you could potentially have 240v where expected 120v should be. Theoretically speaking if timer plugs into 120v L1 and thermostat plugs into 120V L2, if you get a "backfeed" you got 240V. That's literally playing with fire. Also having a transformer is out of the question bud. Don't believe everything you read. Not sure if you're familiar with the product Flip Box but you're are essentially trying to make a ghetto rigged Flip Box. Here is my suggestion for you. Buy another fan and run it on a timer to turn on during lights off. Then use the other fan #2 with the thermostat during lights on. Install backdraft flappers on both fans and you will be fine. Don't try to do things cheaply or in an unorthodox manner when it comes to playing with electricity otherwise you're eventually going to pay the price. my 2c


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## F32 (Mar 2, 2017)

elkamino said:


> I need to run 2 inline fans at half speed. I have the 2 fans and the two timers but only one fan speed regulator. Any reason I *CAN'T:*
> 1. Plug fan speed regulator into the wall
> 2. Plug a power strip into the regulator
> 3. Plug in 2 fans on 2 separate timers, running on different schedules, into the strip that's already "dimmed" by the regulator?
> ...


The regulator essentially reduces overall power to slow your fan speed down. You're timers that are plugged into the regulator power strip may not be able to turn on with such low voltage coming from the strip. That's the only thing I can think of. But should be an easy and safe test to check out. GL and let us know if it worked.


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## Shroominnm (Mar 9, 2017)

So my friend just had an electrician friend over to finish wiring his shed up. Nothi n g to crazy just a hidden type room inside the shed. All insulated and walls up. Wire running outside of wall instead of inside.
My question is, he just sent some pics of the "finished product" and they didn't use conduit.. having wires run along the wall with no conduit is a no-no, no?

I used metal sheilded conduit on the inside of my walls, I cut 0 corners.. 

Him having no conduit, is it a big enough problem that I need to show up at his house with conduit and a 6 pack and convince him to fix it? 
I was baffled when I saw it... he said it gives you more room this way.. hmmmm? Lol
Maybe I'm retarded, figured I'd get some advice from someone who knows much more than me !


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## 619kt619 (Mar 11, 2017)

Shroominnm said:


> So my friend just had an electrician friend over to finish wiring his shed up. Nothi n g to crazy just a hidden type room inside the shed. All insulated and walls up. Wire running outside of wall instead of inside.
> My question is, he just sent some pics of the "finished product" and they didn't use conduit.. having wires run along the wall with no conduit is a no-no, no?
> 
> I used metal sheilded conduit on the inside of my walls, I cut 0 corners..
> ...


Is it to code? No it is not. But if he does not plan on moving out anytime soon and is okay with the way it looks and it works how he wants it to then I see no problem. Did they use Romex (plastic insulated wire)? or metal shielded wire? metal shielded is a little more safe since it has more than just plastic wrapped around the wires, it is out of the way? like running in the corner of the wall and ceiling? There a quite a few factors to consider, usually conduit is only used when running coated individual wires. Best practices say to ensure that nothing can damage the wire and cause problems, but some peoples wallets say get it done with the resources I have given you. I am sure that this message has given you more questions than answers, ask away and I will help you the best I can.


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## Shroominnm (Mar 12, 2017)

619kt619 said:


> Is it to code? No it is not. But if he does not plan on moving out anytime soon and is okay with the way it looks and it works how he wants it to then I see no problem. Did they use Romex (plastic insulated wire)? or metal shielded wire? metal shielded is a little more safe since it has more than just plastic wrapped around the wires, it is out of the way? like running in the corner of the wall and ceiling? There a quite a few factors to consider, usually conduit is only used when running coated individual wires. Best practices say to ensure that nothing can damage the wire and cause problems, but some peoples wallets say get it done with the resources I have given you. I am sure that this message has given you more questions than answers, ask away and I will help you the best I can.


I really appreciate the info man! It's all out of the way and he likes it so I'm not going to try and change his mind. Your on top of stuff, wish I had your electrical knowledge! 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Rollitup mobile app


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## Laerton420 (Oct 4, 2017)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


Question: 1 want to run a 600w tent and a 400 watt tent simultaneously. I wish to run a 20- 30 amp circuit to feed all the devices for everything. I have a 60 amp breaker in my homes bix not being used any longer. Can i dedicate this breaker to that and run a line with enough to carry as much as 2000 watts continuous?


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## MarWan (Oct 4, 2017)

Laerton420 said:


> Question: 1 want to run a 600w tent and a 400 watt tent simultaneously. I wish to run a 20- 30 amp circuit to feed all the devices for everything. I have a 60 amp breaker in my homes bix not being used any longer. Can i dedicate this breaker to that and run a line with enough to carry as much as 2000 watts continuous?


I run 2 x 22000 btu ACs, 960 watts CMH lights, 400 watts Cree CXB3590 LED, 1000watts PC, a fridge, water heater, house lights, power tools, TV, and many smaller things on a 220v 60amp service.


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## Jypsy Dog (Oct 4, 2017)

MarWan said:


> I run 2 x 22000 btu ACs, 960 watts CMH lights, 400 watts Cree CXB3590 LED, 1000watts PC, a fridge, water heater, house lights, power tools, TV, and many smaller things on a 220v 60amp service.


60amp SERVICE??? You use screw in fuses also? A water heater is 30amps alone.


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## Laerton420 (Oct 4, 2017)

Not sure of the terminology but i have a 200 amp breaker at the top of my box and 2, double 60 amp breakers i no longer need that were used for the ac/ htg.
I want to rededicate one of those breakers to a new circuit to power my stuff. Is that possible? If so. How do i go about it?


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## MarWan (Oct 4, 2017)

I use 2 x 60Liter water heater such as this







it consumes 1200 - 1800 watts depending on size, and when I switch them on , I usually turn off 1 AC because it would be winter time.

I'm sorry, sometimes I keep forgetting that I live in a different country, that's all.


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## Hoare (Oct 4, 2017)

2000 watts / 120 volts = pulls 16.6 amps
2000 watts / 240 volts = pulls 8.3 amps


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## 619kt619 (Oct 4, 2017)

Laerton420 said:


> Not sure of the terminology but i have a 200 amp breaker at the top of my box and 2, double 60 amp breakers i no longer need that were used for the ac/ htg.
> I want to rededicate one of those breakers to a new circuit to power my stuff. Is that possible? If so. How do i go about it?


Yes the two pole breaker with 60 amps would be perfect to dedicate to the grow that you are describing, and it would allow for expansion for more consumption if necessary. I would recommend hiring an electrician though


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## Laerton420 (Oct 4, 2017)

Hoare said:


> 2000 watts / 120 volts = pulls 16.6 amps
> 2000 watts / 240 volts = pulls 8.3 amps





619kt619 said:


> Yes the two pole breaker with 60 amps would be perfect to dedicate to the grow that you are describing, and it would allow for expansion for more consumption if necessary. I would recommend hiring an electrician though


Thanks man. My research seems to agree with you. Id love to bring in an electrician. I am intimidated a bit. But im not sure how to approach it. Both tents are up and the room needs to remain stealthy.
I was hoping to run the wire and install two oulets on a circuit somehow . not sure how to do the work at the breaker.


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## 619kt619 (Oct 4, 2017)

Laerton420 said:


> Thanks man. My research seems to agree with you. Id love to bring in an electrician. I am intimidated a bit. But im not sure how to approach it. Both tents are up and the room needs to remain stealthy.
> I was hoping to run the wire and install two oulets on a circuit somehow . not sure how to do the work at the breaker.


I understand your concerns regarding confidentiality, If I was certified confidentiality would be of upmost importance to me and potential clients that need my help. 

With that 60 Amp breaker I would recommend installing a sub panel right next to your tents, then you can run out two separate 15/20 amp circuits. One for each tent, but like I said it would require the work of a professional


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## Laerton420 (Oct 4, 2017)

619kt619 said:


> I understand your concerns regarding confidentiality, If I was certified confidentiality would be of upmost importance to me and potential clients that need my help.
> 
> With that 60 Amp breaker I would recommend installing a sub panel right next to your tents, then you can run out two separate 15/20 amp circuits. One for each tent, but like I said it would require the work of a professional


Great advice. I was drawing up plans to do exactly that. I completely agree with you on the professional help. Looks like im shopping for a good electrician who is discreet. My intention was to install a sub panel between the two tents with 2 15- 20 amp breakers in it. One for each. Does that sound viable? I thought perhaps i could do the work in the room and get a pro to tie in everything at the main box.
P.s. you have already been of great help and i wish to express my gratitude at you taking your time to advise me on this.


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## 619kt619 (Oct 4, 2017)

Laerton420 said:


> Great advice. I was drawing up plans to do exactly that. I completely agree with you on the professional help. Looks like im shopping for a good electrician who is discreet. My intention was to install a sub panel between the two tents with 2 15- 20 amp breakers in it. One for each. Does that sound viable? I thought perhaps i could do the work in the room and get a pro to tie in everything at the main box.


yep, you are definitely on the right track and your research is paying off big time. You will save a considerable amount of cash . If you want any help during the build just PM me with pics and stuff and I can help you out


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## Laerton420 (Oct 4, 2017)

619kt619 said:


> yep, you are definitely on the right track and your research is paying off big time. You will save a considerable amount of cash . If you want any help during the build just PM me with pics and stuff and I can help you out


Man. Thanks. Truly appreciate you. Very helpful.


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## Lucky Luke (Oct 4, 2017)

Laerton420 said:


> Great advice. I was drawing up plans to do exactly that. I completely agree with you on the professional help. Looks like im shopping for a good electrician who is discreet. My intention was to install a sub panel between the two tents with 2 15- 20 amp breakers in it. One for each. Does that sound viable? I thought perhaps i could do the work in the room and get a pro to tie in everything at the main box.
> P.s. you have already been of great help and i wish to express my gratitude at you taking your time to advise me on this.


Speak to the owner (not staff) of your local hydroponics shop. I'm sure they would have someone (like an electrician who grows) who they could put you in touch with.


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## Jypsy Dog (Oct 5, 2017)

Just get your 6/3 pulled out to your main for a Sparky to bring it in. You can handle all the rest. Setting the Sub is not a big deal. Plenty of info online on pulling your branch circuits. Did a hook up/in for a guy with a Tanning Bed. He got all his education online and did a pretty good job.


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## Ryry94 (Oct 5, 2017)

Laerton420 said:


> Thanks man. My research seems to agree with you. Id love to bring in an electrician. I am intimidated a bit. But im not sure how to approach it. Both tents are up and the room needs to remain stealthy.
> I was hoping to run the wire and install two oulets on a circuit somehow . not sure how to do the work at the breaker.


I had the same concern and just ended up telling the electrician over the phone before he even came to my house. Legal state, but some people just refuse to work on weed projects or charge double, I wanted to avoid both. After talking to the electrician for a while, he suggested that people ask for a new dryer plug (220v) in the grow location, because you are going to move your laundry room, right?. Then buy one of those awesome controller boxes that plugs into the 220 dryer outlet and provides all sorts of outlets for lights and the rest of crap we need to plug in.


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## Ryan Plowman (Nov 6, 2017)

I have a question I currently have three phase into a new building and I run double-ended Phantom 208 240 volt ballast can I use the third leg with these or do I need the 277 volt Phantom ballast to use the third leg


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## 619kt619 (Nov 6, 2017)

Ryan Plowman said:


> I have a question I currently have three phase into a new building and I run double-ended Phantom 208 240 volt ballast can I use the third leg with these or do I need the 277 volt Phantom ballast to use the third leg


The ballast has a rating on it, if the 'input' section says it can handle 277 then you are good. If not, then yes you would need ballast rated for 277 if you want to run it that way. More efficient, scale would be determining factor on if you make the change.


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## full of purple (Nov 7, 2017)

I need to hook up 4 or 5 lights to a lighting controller
I need to know if these are ground bars on the left and right?


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## full of purple (Nov 7, 2017)

Also will it be okay to have the lights wired up to the 40 amp breaker and occasionally use 1 burner on the electric stove top?


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## 619kt619 (Nov 7, 2017)

full of purple said:


> I need to hook up 4 or 5 lights to a lighting controller
> I need to know if these are ground bars on the left and right?





full of purple said:


> Also will it be okay to have the lights wired up to the 40 amp breaker and occasionally use 1 burner on the electric stove top?


Man that panel looks scary. ground bar is on the left with all the bare copper wires going to it. Neutral is on the right with all of the white colored wires going to it. I would need to see the power requirements for everything that you want to put on the circuit to determine the load, can't say 100% until I know what is on the circuit. If it is just the stove and the lighting you should be alright, but like I said I would need to know what is being powered on that circuit. If you have a meter that would be the easiest way to determine the amps being pulled on any one breaker, it will give you a snapshot of how much of your breakers capacity is being used. I recommend hiring an electrician


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## OzCocoLoco (Nov 7, 2017)

619kt619 said:


> Man that panel looks scary. ground bar is on the left with all the bare copper wires going to it. Neutral is on the right with all of the white colored wires going to it. I would need to see the power requirements for everything that you want to put on the circuit to determine the load, can't say 100% until I know what is on the circuit. If it is just the stove and the lighting you should be alright, but like I said I would need to know what is being powered on that circuit. If you have a meter that would be the easiest way to determine the amps being pulled on any one breaker, it will give you a snapshot of how much of your breakers capacity is being used. I recommend hiring an electrician


That panel could definitely do with a tidy up.You’d need a clip on ammeter to check amperage of a circuit otherwise you need an in-line amp meter wired into the active the only way to tell current is by having your meter in series with the load or using a c.t (current transformer ) type device that’s in the clip on meter


----------



## Lurrabq (Nov 7, 2017)

full of purple said:


> Also will it be okay to have the lights wired up to the 40 amp breaker and occasionally use 1 burner on the electric stove top?


I'm with 619 on that panel, it's pretty nasty. Also per code, everything on that 40A circuit would need #8 wire, except for short pigtails at the terminal of each device on the circuit. Does that panel have a manufacturer tag?


----------



## full of purple (Nov 7, 2017)

Lurrabq said:


> I'm with 619 on that panel, it's pretty nasty. Also per code, everything on that 40A circuit would need #8 wire, except for short pigtails at the terminal of each device on the circuit. Does that panel have a manufacturer tag?


The panel is made by sylvania


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## full of purple (Nov 7, 2017)

OzCocoLoco said:


> That panel could definitely do with a tidy up.You’d need a clip on ammeter to check amperage of a circuit otherwise you need an in-line amp meter wired into the active the only way to tell current is by having your meter in series with the load or using a c.t (current transformer ) type device that’s in the clip on meter


I only plan to run 3-4 lights on. 12/12


----------



## OzCocoLoco (Nov 7, 2017)

full of purple said:


> I only plan to run 3-4 lights on. 12/12


If your only going for 12/12 you could always split it into 2 sections running 2 lights and use a flip relay to switch the loads so you run one section from 7am to 7pm then it switches over to run the other section from 7pm till 7am halving the maximum load and number of ballasts needed


----------



## full of purple (Nov 7, 2017)

No I only have 1 room don't want to do that 
I think I will be fine


----------



## full of purple (Nov 7, 2017)

Would it be okay to run the power box wires to the main line?
There's no room inside the breakers to add more wire


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## OzCocoLoco (Nov 8, 2017)

full of purple said:


> Would it be okay to run the power box wires to the main line?
> There's no room inside the breakers to add more wire


I wouldn’t if I were you.


----------



## full of purple (Nov 8, 2017)

OzCocoLoco said:


> I wouldn’t if I were you.


How do you suggest I wire up my lights?


----------



## OzCocoLoco (Nov 9, 2017)

full of purple said:


> How do you suggest I wire up my lights?


I really don’t suggest anyone do any “hard wiring “ of any type unless they are an electrician. Personally I set up individual panels for each room with individual circuits for Lights,inlet/outlet fans,circulation fans and ancillaries like pumps,dehumidifiers etc all with their own din mount timers and contactors as well as all circuits being protected by ELCB or safety switches. I’ve made modular units for people so they can plug the units into their wall outlets and them plug their ballasts and things into one of the modules,you may be able to find someone near you to do something similar for you.


----------



## 710revolution (Nov 11, 2017)

Damn bro, you're brave giving some of these people advice. I can just imagine some shit these guys pull. Ive personally cringed looking at a couple of grows, and felt it in my heart to help sort some shit out before they burn the damn house down lol.


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## OzCocoLoco (Nov 11, 2017)

710revolution said:


> Damn bro, you're brave giving some of these people advice. I can just imagine some shit these guys pull. Ive personally cringed looking at a couple of grows, and felt it in my heart to help sort some shit out before they burn the damn house down lol.


That was where I was going with my advice I definatly don’t encourage d.i.y electrical wiring,that’s why I suggest guys get modular panels made up by a professional or at least someone with a good knowledge and experience,that way you don’t have to have an outsider do all the wiring at your grow spot just need a supply outlet


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## GodfatherKCCO (Nov 12, 2017)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


Great thing you're doing for everybody Brick. I'll be asking questions when I move. I was up there a month ago and didn't really look at the electrical. Pretty sure I'm going to have to change / add some breakers and maybe run some new wiring. I've done it before but an experts opinion is always appreciated. The only things I'm an 'expert' at is steel pole design so I'm not much use to anybody here other than for the occasional grin


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## oh really??? (Dec 13, 2017)

I'm setting up another grow and just needed to know the AWG for a 12000 watt light controller. The last two I hired a electrician. I have done my research and it seems that #3/0 is the way to go if I'm running 50ft. 

so does #3/0 THHN wire sound good for a 50' run sound right? or can I go with #4/2?


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## bobdagrowah (Dec 13, 2017)

Go 3 just to be safe


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## firsttimeARE (Dec 17, 2017)

I built out a small closet to dry in during the winter, the issue is no power in there.

I was planning on running one of those heavy duty meant for outside extension cords into the room and hooking the humidifier up on it. Should be fine. But I also thought I could run clones and veg in there. 

Could I then hook up a power strip to the extension cord and run a 260w light and a 25w pump?


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## 619kt619 (Dec 17, 2017)

firsttimeARE said:


> I built out a small closet to dry in during the winter, the issue is no power in there.
> 
> I was planning on running one of those heavy duty meant for outside extension cords into the room and hooking the humidifier up on it. Should be fine. But I also thought I could run clones and veg in there.
> 
> Could I then hook up a power strip to the extension cord and run a 260w light and a 25w pump?


I would not run any kind of lighting in a drying room. Light degrades the quality of the bud.


----------



## firsttimeARE (Dec 17, 2017)

619kt619 said:


> I would not run any kind of lighting in a drying room. Light degrades the quality of the bud.


I said i wanna run clones and veg in there when im not drying


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## 619kt619 (Dec 17, 2017)

firsttimeARE said:


> I said i wanna run clones and veg in there when im not drying


Sorry boss must have skimmed through that part, great idea making that space multipurpose. a 12 awg extension cord should be able to handle a 15 amp load. But I am pretty sure you won't even get close to that load running leds and a fan for circulation. You can load a 20 amp circuit with 1800 watts at 120 volts, or 1440 watts on a 15 amp circuit. Just check the cord temperature and make sure it doesn't get too hot. If it does you need to up the awg of the cord


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## firsttimeARE (Dec 17, 2017)

Just wasnt sure if it was ok plugging a powerstrip into an extension cord


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## 619kt619 (Dec 17, 2017)

firsttimeARE said:


> Just wasnt sure if it was ok plugging a powerstrip into an extension cord


make sure the power strip can handle the load. Don't use a cheap power strip, but you don't need to spend a lot of money. 35-80 bucks for a decent one and most come with equipment coverage in the 10 K -50 K range


----------



## GodfatherKCCO (Dec 18, 2017)

619kt619 said:


> Sorry boss must have skimmed through that part, great idea making that space multipurpose. a 12 awg extension cord should be able to handle a 15 amp load. But I am pretty sure you won't even get close to that load running leds and a fan for circulation. You can load a 20 amp circuit with 1800 watts at 120 volts, or 1440 watts on a 15 amp circuit. Just check the cord temperature and make sure it doesn't get too hot. If it does you need to up the awg of the cord


If I considered going solar what would it take to run 5 LED lights that are rated at 150W?


----------



## cat of curiosity (Dec 18, 2017)

GodfatherKCCO said:


> If I considered going solar what would it take to run 5 LED lights that are rated at 150W?


batteries


----------



## GodfatherKCCO (Dec 18, 2017)

cat of curiosity said:


> batteries


LOL. If I could keep any around this place. They have a mysterious habit of 'disappearing' I'm going to have to keep a closer eye on my wife


----------



## rkymtnman (Dec 18, 2017)

GodfatherKCCO said:


> LOL. If I could keep any around this place. They have a mysterious habit of 'disappearing' I'm going to have to keep a closer eye on my wife


i think cat is talking about storage batteries, not batteries for the rabbit vibe. lol.


----------



## GodfatherKCCO (Dec 18, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> i think cat is talking about storage batteries, not batteries for the rabbit vibe. lol.


LOL... just trying to introduce a bit of levity from time to time brother. That said I need to go get some double A's again. JESUS!!!


----------



## rkymtnman (Dec 18, 2017)

GodfatherKCCO said:


> LOL... just trying to introduce a bit of levity from time to time brother. That said I need to go get some double A's again. JESUS!!!


wifey has upgraded to rechargeable penis replacements around here. now the AA's are just for tv remotes. lol


----------



## cat of curiosity (Dec 18, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> wifey has upgraded to rechargeable penis replacements around here. now the AA's are just for tv remotes. lol


USBenis... soon sloppy human sex will be obsolete...human sex will be obsolete...


----------



## 619kt619 (Dec 19, 2017)

GodfatherKCCO said:


> If I considered going solar what would it take to run 5 LED lights that are rated at 150W?


Wow, that got off topic quickly, love the progression though. However by 'going solar' do you mean your whole home? a system on a home is based on kW. I am sure you could design a system that could be used just to power a "garage" or specific appliances' and what not.

Honestly 750 watts is not that much power. But you could definitely offset the power from your setup with a whole home system and if you got a battery with the panels then you would be set.


----------



## Lucky Luke (Dec 19, 2017)




----------



## Mr.Gee (Jan 5, 2018)

619kt619 said:


> Wow, that got off topic quickly, love the progression though. However by 'going solar' do you mean your whole home? a system on a home is based on kW. I am sure you could design a system that could be used just to power a "garage" or specific appliances' and what not.
> 
> Honestly 750 watts is not that much power. But you could definitely offset the power from your setup with a whole home system and if you got a battery with the panels then you would be set.


I have a qu


619kt619 said:


> Wow, that got off topic quickly, love the progression though. However by 'going solar' do you mean your whole home? a system on a home is based on kW. I am sure you could design a system that could be used just to power a "garage" or specific appliances' and what not.
> 
> Honestly 750 watts is not that much power. But you could definitely offset the power from your setup with a whole home system and if you got a battery with the panels then you would be set.


Don’t mean to jump in on your post but I have a question pertaining to solar power if you don’t mind. What would I need to run 10,000 watts of LED on a separate solar panel system? Thanks in advance!


----------



## 619kt619 (Jan 5, 2018)

Mr.Gee said:


> I have a qu
> 
> 
> Don’t mean to jump in on your post but I have a question pertaining to solar power if you don’t mind. What would I need to run 10,000 watts of LED on a separate solar panel system? Thanks in advance!


So a 10 kW system can produce around 1,000 watts alternating current a month or 10,000 watts of direct current. I don't claim to have all the answers you are looking for since I don't really work in this particular field. I am sure you there are some resources and consultants (who are cannabis friendly) you can talk to about setting something up or get better information from


----------



## Mr.Gee (Jan 9, 2018)

619kt619 said:


> So a 10 kW system can produce around 1,000 watts alternating current a month or 10,000 watts of direct current. I don't claim to have all the answers you are looking for since I don't really work in this particular field. I am sure you there are some resources and consultants (who are cannabis friendly) you can talk to about setting something up or get better information from


Cool thanks I appreciate you taking the time to reply.


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## OzCocoLoco (Jan 9, 2018)

619kt619 said:


> So a 10 kW system can produce around 1,000 watts alternating current a month or 10,000 watts of direct current.


What calcs did you use to work that out ? Think you need to re check them


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## OzCocoLoco (Jan 9, 2018)

A 10 Kw system will in theory be able to produce around 40 Amps at 240 (80 A at 120 v) when working at 100 % efficiency but in reality is probably more like 25 % of max output in most situations


----------



## mr sunshine (Jan 9, 2018)

Does anyone know how to turn a battery operated dildo into a plug in? I'm tired of having to keep buying so many batteries.


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## rkymtnman (Jan 9, 2018)

mr sunshine said:


> Does anyone know how to turn a battery operated dildow into a plug in? I'm tired of having to keep buying so many batteries.


i took the 2 cycle engine off my weed whacker to make an ass whacker. a bit smoky but really puts out the RPM's.


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## Commycharb (Jan 9, 2018)

I would ask you to help me steal power but based on your first answer you dont know shit.

Black to black and white(RED) to white(RED) is parallel for more than one bulb socket.


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## Commycharb (Jan 9, 2018)

series would look like this

 
you should definitely know theses basics. I wonder how many houses you have burned to the ground with your intellectual deficiencies.


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## Commycharb (Jan 9, 2018)

grade 10 physics man. parallel the electricity flows through the lights simultaneously. Series the power flows through the lights sequentially.


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## Surfer Joe (Jan 10, 2018)

bricktown73 said:


> Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things?


I am in an older house and the circuit that controls the garage power is shared with the kitchen laundry room.
Recently, I keep getting the circuit tripped and I can't find a faulty appliance on the circuit. We don't run all of the appliances together and the load has been stable for a few years until recently. 
I tried adding another light in the garage recently, but that also worked fine until just a couple of days ago and now the circuit seems to trip several times a day, but not in any predictable way.
The electrician couldn't find a fault and said that it might be the wiring or junction boxes in the walls or under the floors rather than a specific appliance.
The electrician noted that the fuses are rated fairly high (32amps) and more than what the wiring needs, so could we be slowly damaging the wires by running about 1000w extra for the lights and fans in the tent?
It's only a 600w hps and a 5 inch fan extractor and 3 oscillating small fans running for 12 hours and then just a small oil radiator and fans running when the lights are off. The setup has been stable for years.
I can't figure out where the problem might be and have been trying all sorts of combinations to see if any pattern developed.
Thanks for any advice.


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## OzCocoLoco (Jan 10, 2018)

Surfer Joe said:


> I am in an older house and the circuit that controls the garage power is shared with the kitchen laundry room.
> Recently, I keep getting the circuit tripped and I can't find a faulty appliance on the circuit. We don't run all of the appliances together and the load has been stable for a few years until recently.
> I tried adding another light in the garage recently, but that also worked fine until just a couple of days ago and now the circuit seems to trip several times a day, but not in any predictable way.
> The electrician couldn't find a fault and said that it might be the wiring or junction boxes in the walls or under the floors rather than a specific appliance.
> ...


Did the electrician do an insulation test on the wiring ? A 32 amp circuit would have to be run in a minimum of 6mm cable think the imperial conversion would be 7/044 which I’ve never seen run for a regular power circuit. Intermittent faults are the worst type to try and find and repair. If you have any old iron core ballasts or old fluro’s I’d be taking a good look at them sometimes as the ballast heats up it will short out but will run fine when cool.


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## Surfer Joe (Jan 10, 2018)

Thanks. I will try swapping out the ballast, but the circuit still has tripped when the ballasts or lights are not being used.
All I have is a ballast, a 600 w hps, an extractor fan and a couple of oscillating fans, but it has still tripped when none of these were on.


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## OzCocoLoco (Jan 10, 2018)

Surfer Joe said:


> Thanks. I will try swapping out the ballast, but the circuit still has tripped when the ballasts or lights are not being used.
> All I have is a ballast, a 600 w hps, an extractor fan and a couple of oscillating fans, but it has still tripped when none of these were on.


You haven’t got earth leakage breakers ( E.L.C.B’s) or R.C.D’s have you ?


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## Bookush34 (Jan 10, 2018)

Here’s one. 

Can you take a 240v outlet. 
Separate the two 120v lines.

Wire one line into a 120v 15a outlet 
Wire the other into another 15a outlet. 

And share the return line?


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## Surfer Joe (Jan 11, 2018)

OzCocoLoco said:


> You haven’t got earth leakage breakers ( E.L.C.B’s) or R.C.D’s have you ?


I think that there are one or two of those in the system but they haven't tripped out when the circuit has blown.


----------



## Surfer Joe (Jan 11, 2018)

Bookush34 said:


> Here’s one.
> 
> Can you take a 240v outlet.
> Separate the two 120v lines.
> ...


Thanks, but I have no idea what you are talking about or how to go about it. I don't know enough about electrics to get into something like that.
At the moment, I have decided to run a heavy duty extension from another circuit in the house out to the garage and plug the tent stuff into that. It's just a 600w hps and some oscillating fans and an extractor fan on the filter, and when the lights are out there is a small oil radiator that goes on to keep the dark tent warm.
It's not really much power drain, I think, and it has worked fine for a few years, but the house is old and the wiring hasn't been inspected in over 15 years and we rent, so I can't go rewiring the house on my own.


----------



## OzCocoLoco (Jan 11, 2018)

Bookush34 said:


> Here’s one.
> 
> Can you take a 240v outlet.
> Separate the two 120v lines.
> ...


Nope


----------



## Bookush34 (Jan 11, 2018)

OzCocoLoco said:


> Nope


Why not?


----------



## rkymtnman (Jan 11, 2018)

Bookush34 said:


> And share the return line?


there is no return line to share. 

240v is 2 hot 120's. no common/neutral. only a ground.


----------



## Bookush34 (Jan 11, 2018)

rkymtnman said:


> there is no return line to share.
> 
> 240v is 2 hot 120's. no common/neutral. only a ground.



Not All
My house has 4 strand. 
Black- 120v hot. 
Red- 120v hot 
White- return/neutral 
Bare - ground


----------



## rkymtnman (Jan 11, 2018)

Bookush34 said:


> Not All
> My house has 4 strand.
> Black- 120v hot.
> Red- 120v hot
> ...


that must be for a dryer/range then since some parts/components are 240v, some are 120v.


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## Bookush34 (Jan 11, 2018)

It’s was a junction for my old hottub. 

I split it about 4 yrs ago. I have amp clamped it and checked for voltage drop under load. All was good. 

Just swapped out the 40amp Gfic do 2 separate 15amp gfic. Breakers. 

Just thought I would see what I got for answers.


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## rkymtnman (Jan 11, 2018)

Bookush34 said:


> It’s was a junction for my old hottub.


that makes sense. the heater was 240v and the lights etc was 120v.


----------



## rkymtnman (Jan 11, 2018)

Bookush34 said:


> Just swapped out the 40amp Gfic do 2 separate 15amp gfic. Breakers.


i'm not positive but i think you have to have some type of physical junction b/t the 2 15A breakers so that they are both on or both off.


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## Bookush34 (Jan 11, 2018)

rkymtnman said:


> i'm not positive but i think you have to have some type of physical junction b/t the 2 15A breakers so that they are both on or both off.


I did the copper bar to connect the two breaker toggles. 
If you know what I mean?


----------



## rkymtnman (Jan 11, 2018)

Bookush34 said:


> I did the copper bar to connect the two breaker toggles.
> If you know what I mean?


yep. you'd be in a world of shit if one was off, one was on and you were working on the off one thinking it was de-energized


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## Bookush34 (Jan 11, 2018)

rkymtnman said:


> yep. you'd be in a world of shit if one was off, one was on and you were working on the off one thinking it was de-energized


Just a good wake up call. Lol.


----------



## rkymtnman (Jan 11, 2018)

Bookush34 said:


> Just a good wake up call. Lol.


better than Red Bull.


----------



## Stevie51 (Jan 11, 2018)

Bookush34 said:


> Why not?


This is my understanding of the basic difference between European systems and North American systems. Europeans use 230 volts 50Hz electrical circuits that comprise of one ungrounded current-carrying conductor and one grounded current-carrying conductor, thus would use single-pole circuit breakers for their circuit breakers. The vast majority of residents living in North America are supplied with a 120/240 volts split-phase 60Hz electrical service. Although we use a grounded conductor (neutral) as one of the current-carrying conductor in our 120 volts circuits, we *do not* use a grounded conductor as a current-carrying conductor in our 240 volts circuits. Therefore we are required to use double-pole circuit breakers for the circuit breakers in our 240 volts circuits, while single-pole circuit breakers are used in our 120 volts circuits. Both European and North American uses a grounded (the normally noncurrent-carrying) conductor for the safety ground.


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## OzCocoLoco (Jan 11, 2018)

Bookush34 said:


> Why not?


Unless you could garauntee that you would have a balanced load the neutral/return
it could have more current going through it than it would be rated to carry.


----------



## Bookush34 (Jan 11, 2018)

OzCocoLoco said:


> Unless you could garauntee that you would have a balanced load the neutral/return
> it could have more current going through it than it would be rated to carry.


Except it’s 6 gauge wire. I could run 4x 1000watt hps and be totally fine. 

With 2 15 amp breakers. You can’t overload it.


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## OzCocoLoco (Jan 11, 2018)

Bookush34 said:


> Except it’s 6 gauge wire. I could run 4x 1000watt hps and be totally fine.
> 
> With 2 15 amp breakers. You can’t overload it.


Not sure what size 6 gauge wire is ? What’s it’s rated current carrying capacity ?


----------



## OzCocoLoco (Jan 11, 2018)

Bookush34 said:


> Except it’s 6 gauge wire. I could run 4x 1000watt hps and be totally fine.
> 
> With 2 15 amp breakers. You can’t overload it.


Is 6 gauge is rated to 55 A.


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## OzCocoLoco (Jan 11, 2018)

Over here (Australia) every circuit with a socket has to be protected by a 30 mA R.C.D not sure what you guys use for earth leakage but you couldn’t share a neutral on the load side between 2 different circuits the breaker would Trip as soon as either circuit went under load.


----------



## bb247 (Feb 9, 2018)

How's it going everybody. Safety question here.

I am planning out the power for my two-tent setup. Both will run COBs, one drawing up to ~600W and the other drawing up to ~300W. In addition to lights, I will be powering up to 5 8" clip-on fans (Active Air brand with transformer block) and a 6" inline fan. I would also like to power my computer on the same circuit but I can be talked out of that.

My question is how to do this in the safest way possible without adding new circuits to the circuitbreaker. I was intending to purchase one of these to connect to the wall:






^^^ with the GCFI on the end there. To this I was going to plug in the grow lights (all Mean Wells connected with WAGO blocks), a second one of these Tripp Lite but without the GFCI plug to send to the larger grow tent where most of the ventilation will be powered, and a cord similar to the one below to send to the smaller tent for a couple of clip-on fans there. My question is: is this safe? If not, what should I buy instead? I already own the cable below and the Tripp Lite above (without GFCI).






Many thanks in advance.


----------



## Canigrow? (Feb 11, 2018)

bb247 said:


> How's it going everybody. Safety question here.
> 
> I am planning out the power for my two-tent setup. Both will run COBs, one drawing up to ~600W and the other drawing up to ~300W. In addition to lights, I will be powering up to 5 8" clip-on fans (Active Air brand with transformer block) and a 6" inline fan. I would also like to power my computer on the same circuit but I can be talked out of that.
> 
> ...


Safety is not really an issue. Your house plugs are rated to accept 15amps of load. If you plug more than that into your outlets it will trip the breaker. Usually 12 outlets max on a circuit. Includes plugs and lights calculated at an average of 1 amp per outlet. If you know what else is on that circuit the only thing that should happen is lights dimming when your setup kicks on. Not the best for your pc but hey we all have to make sacrifices. As long as the extensions are rated for enough amps and possibly wet conditions that's all you can do.


----------



## Craigson (Jan 13, 2020)

Hey fam, hoping someone can chime in here.
Had a receptacle fry last night.
Had this set up running for a few months with no issues prior.
Plan on replacing receptacle, powerbar/timer, and 2x hps bulbs but want opinions on what more I should do to be safe??
15A breaker, 110V

There are burn marks on the receptacle and on the combo surge protector/timer that was plugged in.

Didnt have a lot of time this morning but 1 of the 2 600watt hps that were plugged into the timer looks to be fried. (Black around the base)
Only the 2x 600watt hps were plugged into this timer and receptacle. These run 7pm -7am. (Note* this outlet is thing not working. Everythingn else on same circuit was still running)
On other receptacles on the same circuit I have the following running 5am-10pm;
1x 250watt MH light
1x 315watt cmh light
Small cool mist humidifier

The below items run 24/7

2x 4inch duct fans
1x 14inch pedestal fan
1x small aquarium bubbler
2x 6inch oscillating fans

I didnt realize I quite had this many watts on this circuit. Looks like Ive got around 1900watts on there??

Best option to relace w a 30Amp breaker? (Excuse my ignorance as I know just enough about electrical to be dangerous)

started flower 2 days ago so dont have much time to dink around. Need fixed asap.
thanks in a


----------



## Craigson (Jan 13, 2020)

Craigson said:


> Hey fam, hoping someone can chime in here.
> Had a receptacle fry last night.
> Had this set up running for a few months with no issues prior.
> Plan on replacing receptacle, powerbar/timer, and 2x hps bulbs but want opinions on what more I should do to be safe??
> ...


hmmm I shoukdnt be able to get more than about 17-1800watts on a 15amp breaker should I???

might have to do some more sleuthing here after work ffs


----------



## rkymtnman (Jan 13, 2020)

Craigson said:


> Best option to relace w a 30Amp breaker?


never.

15A x 120V= 1800W MAX. you only want to run @ 80% of rated load so 1400 W MAX. 

I would try to find a separate circuit and a heavy duty extension cord to get you by temporarily. Then have an electrician do it correctly by adding a circuit for you. 

Can you run the HPS on 240V?


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## spek9 (Jan 13, 2020)

Craigson said:


> Best option to relace w a 30Amp breaker?


NO!

If you have a 15A circuit, it's almost certainly using 14ga wire. If you replace the 15A breaker with 30A, the wire becomes the fuse, and will start a fire. A 30A circuit requires 10ga wire, so you'd need to replace the cabling (quite costly with 10ga), and the outlets themselves along with the breaker.

1800W on a 120V circuit is exactly 15A. One should never continuously run a circuit at more than 80% capacity. This is called the "80 percent rule". So, on a 15A circuit, it shouldn't be loaded beyond 12A continuously.

You need to run two separate 15A circuits, and split the load across them.


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## Craigson (Jan 13, 2020)

rkymtnman said:


> never.
> 
> 15A x 120V= 1800W MAX. you only want to run @ 80% of rated load so 1400 W MAX.
> 
> ...


Ahh yes I just looked up about swicthing to bigger breaker - wont do that lol

my latest conclusion is yes Ill get a good extension cord and run to another circuit.

I dont know about 220, like my stove is 220 but I couldnt tell you what my options are lol
plus then Ill have to buy all new ballasts I believe??

luckily my grow room is in the room beside my panel so should be pretty easy to run another circuit.

thanks for the quick reply


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## Craigson (Jan 13, 2020)

spek9 said:


> NO!
> 
> If you have a 15A circuit, it's almost certainly using 14ga wire. If you replace the 15A breaker with 30A, the wire becomes the fuse, and will start a fire. A 30A circuit requires 10ga wire, so you'd need to replace the cabling (quite costly with 10ga), and the outlets themselves along with the breaker.
> 
> ...


Ya so shoukdnt the breaker have been tripping at 80%??


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## rkymtnman (Jan 13, 2020)

Craigson said:


> plus then Ill have to buy all new ballasts I believe


that was my question for ya: most ballasts can run both 120/240 with a cord change. if so, have a electrician run a 240 circuit for you and run your lights off it and keep the 120 for other crap


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## Dryxi (Jan 13, 2020)

@ whoever.

What size wire do I need to keep 240v current, distance is ~370 ft from main panel, goal is 100 amps at subpanel (distance away).
Wire will be buried underground (only 75ft underground), prefer not to use metal conduit (extra expense).

I have heard multiple things, but curious what you all have to say. Mostly it comes down to how much voltage drop I can handle. I won't be using all 100amps (more like 50). The 240v outlets will be for minisplit, dehuey, and lights (2k watts of LED), all of which I am pretty sure can run on 220 vs 240, so some voltage drop should be alright.


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## Renfro (Jan 14, 2020)

@ 370 feet using 3/0 copper you would have a voltage drop of about 2.7%.

Thing is, the underground part and the other part may require different cable to keep code unless you intend to use conduit (highly recommended IMO.)


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## Chunky Stool (Jan 17, 2020)

Why do my smart plugs leak a tiny bit of electricity when they should be off? 

It is only noticeable with LED gear. 

I've tried two different brands and they both do it.


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## Renfro (Jan 17, 2020)

Chunky Stool said:


> Why do my smart plugs leak a tiny bit of electricity when they should be off?
> 
> It is only noticeable with LED gear.
> 
> I've tried two different brands and they both do it.


Because they are smart plugs and they use power to "think"


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## Hust17 (Jan 17, 2020)

Anyone know why the light bulb in my roof fixture stays on very dim when I turn the switch off?


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## Chip Green (Jan 17, 2020)

I also had that situation ^^^^
Motion light on the garage.


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## Chunky Stool (Jan 18, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Because they are smart plugs and they use power to "think"


I don't care if it uses power to think -- but it shouldn't be passing any along. 
Off is off.


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## Renfro (Jan 18, 2020)

Well if current is passing then it's a solid state "switch" and not a relay inside the plug.


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## diggs99 (Jan 18, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Well if current is passing then it's a solid state "switch" and not a relay inside the plug.


muthafkr you must be 200 years old with all the knowledge and experience you have in that head of yours, wtf lol noway someone can learn so much about so much in less than 200 years atleast bro

im jealous


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## CountryFriedPotHead (Jan 18, 2020)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


I recently swapped a light switch to be a plug in receptacle, so i could draw power anonymously in my grow area. Only problem is.. when i plug my timer in my lights run at half strength, the cooling fans inside the light do not turn on andddd the damn light bulb slowly lights up and after about 3 seconds is emitting a full on beam of light. Haaa, im dumb founded, literally moved the entire grow out of frustration. This wasnt my only problem, just the cherry on top. Regardless, id like to know what i did wrong. Below I will list the steps i changed the switch in.
1) Flip Breaker for Designated Are
2) Begin unscrewing light switch cover before checking it with a volt meter bc fuck it YOLO
3) Unscrew switch from box
4) Remove neutral and hot wire
5) Remove ground
6) I put the wires into the new 20w receptacle, White wire on the side with the green ground screw, I think it was the neutral wire.
7) Tighten the wires in, push the remainder of the ground wire back in the box corner
 Screw the receptacle to the box
9) Screw the plate over the receptacle 
10) Attempt to draw power.

Any help will be appreciated!


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## fragileassassin (Jan 18, 2020)

Craigson said:


> Ahh yes I just looked up about swicthing to bigger breaker - wont do that lol
> 
> my latest conclusion is yes Ill get a good extension cord and run to another circuit.
> 
> ...


This was my solution to a very similar problem. All of the basement outlets were on 1 15a breaker, but I need up to 25-30a plus the ability to use my big ass shop vac that pulls several amps. I got around this temporarily by drilling a hole in the bottom of the garage wall and running 3 extension cords from the 2 15a circuits in the garage.
I scored the 50a controller box local for $50 which was a steal as it was brand new.
50 feet of 6/2 sim-pull wire, a 50a breaker, 2 boxes of clips, and 10ft of conduit and needed parts to run it up the garage wall ran me around $120.
I ran the wire myself and had an electrician friend check over it and do the panel work which would have cost $150-200 itself
This ended up MUCH cheaper than rewiring all of the basement outlets.


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## Renfro (Jan 18, 2020)

CountryFriedPotHead said:


> I recently swapped a light switch to be a plug in receptacle, so i could draw power anonymously in my grow area. Only problem is.. when i plug my timer in my lights run at half strength, the cooling fans inside the light do not turn on andddd the damn light bulb slowly lights up and after about 3 seconds is emitting a full on beam of light. Haaa, im dumb founded, literally moved the entire grow out of frustration. This wasnt my only problem, just the cherry on top. Regardless, id like to know what i did wrong. Below I will list the steps i changed the switch in.
> 1) Flip Breaker for Designated Are
> 2) Begin unscrewing light switch cover before checking it with a volt meter bc fuck it YOLO
> 3) Unscrew switch from box
> ...


Sounds like you tapped a switch leg. The white wire is probably not neutral but a switch leg.


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## Renfro (Jan 18, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> muthafkr you must be 200 years old with all the knowledge and experience you have in that head of yours, wtf lol noway someone can learn so much about so much in less than 200 years atleast bro
> 
> im jealous


Imagine how much I could learn if I actually tried? I spend most of my time fucking off...


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## CountryFriedPotHead (Jan 18, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Sounds like you tapped a switch leg. The white wire is probably not neutral but a switch leg.


Okay, thats nice to know, I appreciate the info, but clearly from my lack of knowledge im unaware of what a leg switch is. So if you could help me and explain instead of only pointing out something you know about what I said that'd be super awesome!


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## Renfro (Jan 18, 2020)

CountryFriedPotHead said:


> Okay, thats nice to know, I appreciate the info, but clearly from my lack of knowledge im unaware of what a leg switch is. So if you could help me and explain instead of only pointing out something you know about what I said that'd be super awesome!


A switch leg goes to lighting from the switch and carries power to the light, in that case the neutral leg is usually in the ceiling where the light is.


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## CountryFriedPotHead (Jan 18, 2020)

Renfro said:


> A switch leg goes to lighting from the switch and carries power to the light, in that case the neutral leg is usually in the ceiling where the light is.


Okay, so how can I resolve this problem? Pretty much its fu*ked and that was meant to be only a light switch? There was about a billion wires up there and if it helps it was in my attic. Is there only a switch leg and a hot wire and a ground? Is there a neutral wire up there I can plug into the spot i put the leg? Do you need a picture to help me?


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## fragileassassin (Jan 18, 2020)

CountryFriedPotHead said:


> Okay, so how can I resolve this problem? Pretty much its fu*ked and that was meant to be only a light switch? There was about a billion wires up there and if it helps it was in my attic. Is there only a switch leg and a hot wire and a ground? Is there a neutral wire up there I can plug into the spot i put the leg? Do you need a picture to help me?


Does this switch control 1 single light? and are there any other switches that control the same light. Theres a few different ways things could be set up. The power could be run to the light first and then to the switch or to the switch and then the light.
Pics of how the switch is wired could help. 
Is there 2 black wires on it or a black and a white? If its black and white and that switch only controls 1 light, its likely the neutral is run directly to the light.


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## Renfro (Jan 18, 2020)

If you don't want to use the light switch anymore, just tap the neutral in the ceiling box and tie it to the white wire that goes to the old switch.


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## Renfro (Jan 18, 2020)

The switch leg is likely just a black wire coming from the hot in the cieling box run to the switch and back using the white wire to the light fixture.


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## CountryFriedPotHead (Jan 18, 2020)

fragileassassin said:


> Does this switch control 1 single light? and are there any other switches that control the same light. Theres a few different ways things could be set up. The power could be run to the light first and then to the switch or to the switch and then the light.
> Pics of how the switch is wired could help.
> Is there 2 black wires on it or a black and a white? If its black and white and that switch only controls 1 light, its likely the neutral is run directly to the light.


The switch only controls one light, or at least it did before removed it. The bulb is one of those old timey E60 light bulbs. Theres no chain or anything hanging from the bulb. The light switch was the only way to control the bulb. It would make sense for the power to run to the light before the switch because of the way everything unfolds when i try to turn my grow light on. First the bulb is dim, and then my grow box KINDA powers up, and then the bulb gets brighter. I will definitely send pics in the morning my attic ladder is loud and my neighbors are nosey old farts. 
If the neutral is run to the light bulb can i steal it for my receptacle box and cap the open wire end from the light bulb without any reprocussions?


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## CountryFriedPotHead (Jan 18, 2020)

Renfro said:


> The switch leg is likely just a black wire coming from the hot in the cieling box run to the switch and back using the white wire to the light fixture.


I think my wires were white and grey. Like not even a dark grey that looks black. I have no idea how these people wired up this house as the original home owners built it themselves in the 60’s, and there was a lot of other shit done in here during construction that completely baffles me every time I discover it haha.


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## Renfro (Jan 18, 2020)

Thing is you wired in series with the existing light.

Change the switch leg by moving it's white wire from the light fixture and to the neutral. You have to take down the ceiling light to access the wires.


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## Renfro (Jan 18, 2020)

Pull down the ceiling light to access the wires inside and send us a pic. Should have the power there and we just need to redirect it to a plug where the switch used to be from what I gather.


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## Renfro (Jan 18, 2020)

When hooking up a receptacle the screws on one side are silver (neutral / white) and the other side is gold (hot / black).


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## CountryFriedPotHead (Jan 18, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Pull down the ceiling light to access the wires inside and send us a pic. Should have the power there and we just need to redirect it to a plug where the switch used to be from what I gather.


Its not a ceiling light il send pics in the morning.


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## fragileassassin (Jan 18, 2020)

Im big on visual, so I found a picture. 
Assuming there isnt a 2nd pair of wires on your light switch, you will probably find something like this at the light. If you dont want to use the light anymore, you should be able to just disconnect it and connect the wires back together and replace the light switch with an outlet or whatever you were trying to do.


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## CountryFriedPotHead (Jan 18, 2020)

fragileassassin said:


> Im big on visual, so I found a picture.
> Assuming there isnt a 2nd pair of wires on your light switch, you will probably find something like this at the light. If you dont want to use the light anymore, you should be able to just disconnect it and connect the wires back together and replace the light switch with an outlet or whatever you were trying to do.
> View attachment 4459535


Im very visual as well, Montessori kid here! So id go black to black, white to white, and leave the ground alone? It may be better for me not to fuck with it but I’m a really hands on type of guy and certainly really good at learning the hard way, so il give it a shot.


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## Renfro (Jan 18, 2020)

CountryFriedPotHead said:


> It may be better for me not to fuck with it


I am gonna go with this ^


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## CountryFriedPotHead (Jan 18, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I am gonna go with this ^


Cool, thats why youll live life bored inside your comfort zone and I’ll learn everything I can until the day I die. 2 cloths here, sams pair of scissors.


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## Renfro (Jan 18, 2020)

CountryFriedPotHead said:


> Cool, thats why youll live life bored inside your comfort zone and I’ll learn everything I can until the day I die. 2 cloths here, sams pair of scissors.


When it comes to electrical work, my comfort zone is generally limited to what I understand and don't have to ask people on pot forums about. I have a pretty firm grasp on AC electrical work as it was my job (former master sparky here). But you keep kicking those that try to help you when you didn't even think to take pictures first.


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## fragileassassin (Jan 18, 2020)

CountryFriedPotHead said:


> Cool, thats why youll live life bored inside your comfort zone and I’ll learn everything I can until the day I die. 2 cloths here, sams pair of scissors.


All hes getting at is when it come to working with main ac voltage like that, it has the potential to kill you or burn your house down with minor mistakes and theres only so much gap we can close with online advice.

In this case youd need to connect all 3 safely and make sure the wire insulation is long enough you wont get any shorts and the connections are secure and insulated. Once everything is unhooked, you're essentially just repairing the wire to the outlet. It's not a twist and electrical tape type job.


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## Chip Green (Jan 18, 2020)

CountryFriedPotHead said:


> n until the day I die.


Which could be sooner than you think, when experimental electrical work is in the picture.


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## CountryFriedPotHead (Jan 18, 2020)

Chip Green said:


> Which could be sooner than you think, when experimental electrical work is in the picture.


If I was experimenting Id be up there instead of asking questions. Just saying.


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## CountryFriedPotHead (Jan 18, 2020)

Renfro said:


> When it comes to electrical work, my comfort zone is generally limited to what I understand and don't have to ask people on pot forums about. I have a pretty firm grasp on AC electrical work as it was my job (former master sparky here). But you keep kicking those that try to help you when you didn't even think to take pictures first.


Honestly I get that your trying to help me like I asked someone to do. But I did not come to this pot forum to learn about electricity. I saw a thread, I remembered something I wanted to know from my recent experience, and I spat it out for a master electrician to help me with. I certainly thought to take pictures and already explained why i would not be taking a picture right now to please someone whos ass wouldn’t be on the line if I got caught with my plants. Il never understand what I don't without asking people for help. Like I said dude, 2 different cloths.


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## CountryFriedPotHead (Jan 18, 2020)

fragileassassin said:


> All hes getting at is when it come to working with main ac voltage like that, it has the potential to kill you or burn your house down with minor mistakes and theres only so much gap we can close with online advice.
> 
> In this case youd need to connect all 3 safely and make sure the wire insulation is long enough you wont get any shorts and the connections are secure and insulated. Once everything is unhooked, you're essentially just repairing the wire to the outlet. It's not a twist and electrical tape type job.


We all gotta die some day boss man. Id rather get zapped doing something I love than die in my computer chair advising people to stop trying to learn. Anyway Il just have my pop help me, like I planned on doing. The mans an electrician. Thanks for everything, Now il have a better understanding of whats going on tomorrow when hes telling and showing me what to do. Cheers!


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## nopifarms (Jan 31, 2020)

New Question for anyone that can answer: I’m looking to get a dehumidifier that is running 220V - Single Phase. My building has 208V - 3 Phase. 

Will the dehumidifier work without any issues? If not what are some measures I can take to make this work on my end?


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## Justkickinit420 (Jan 31, 2020)

This may of been asked before bit there is 4K responses so I’m just gonna ask. 
How do I turn an outlet into 220 that is currently 110?


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## Renfro (Feb 1, 2020)

nopifarms said:


> New Question for anyone that can answer: I’m looking to get a dehumidifier that is running 220V - Single Phase. My building has 208V - 3 Phase.
> 
> Will the dehumidifier work without any issues? If not what are some measures I can take to make this work on my end?


Not advisable. Motor loads designed to run on a 240 volt feed will run slower and hotter and draw more current. This would be bad for your compressor and likely result in premature failure. Other than getting a dehumidifier that is designed for 208 volt operation you are limited to a costly transformer that would fix the issue but likely cost more than a new dehumidifier.

Something to consider, you could have the electrical service changed to better suit growing.



Justkickinit420 said:


> This may of been asked before bit there is 4K responses so I’m just gonna ask.
> How do I turn an outlet into 220 that is currently 110?


First make sure nothing else is on the circuit. (seen people blow up their microwave and shit this way lol)

Locate the circuit in the breaker panel, you need to isolate it's neutral wire and hot wire. Turn off that breaker and pull it, disconnect the black wire from the breaker. Disconnect the neutral wire for that circuit from the neutral bus. Mark that neutral wire with some red or black tape to designate it's hot. Now using a double pole breaker of the correct amperage for the wire gauge, connect both the old neutral and hot wires to the breaker and stab it. Now the neutral side of that circuit is the other hot leg for your 240 volt feed. If you have any lighting or whatnot on that feed you will find out lol.


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## Maccatheclown (Mar 19, 2020)

Hey everyone, anyone got some info about flipper relays,
So far I’ve come to the conclusion that homemade ones unless rated for 600v are a burn hazard....

Can you use them with a digital ballast?

What about an led driver to power 2 seperate sets of boards?


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## Renfro (Mar 20, 2020)

Maccatheclown said:


> So far I’ve come to the conclusion that homemade ones unless rated for 600v are a burn hazard....


For sure. Lamps are fed voltages in the 300 - 400 volt range. A contactor rated for 250 volts isn't gonna be happy.

As to the LED driver, you would want contactors that are rated for a *DC voltage* that exceeds the voltage it will carry.

Digital ballasts will generally need to have a timer setup that turns them off for a few minutes at each flip. This is because they have error detecting circuitry that detects a lamp failure and whatnot. The flip will generally make them scram. So if you flip at 12:00 you should have the ballasts power down at 11:59 and power up at 12:01.

Always have a backup ballast/driver. If you have one die you lose two lights, not just one.


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## Maccatheclown (Mar 20, 2020)

Renfro said:


> For sure. Lamps are fed voltages in the 300 - 400 volt range. A contactor rated for 250 volts isn't gonna be happy.
> 
> As to the LED driver, you would want contactors that are rated for a *DC voltage* that exceeds the voltage it will carry.
> 
> ...


Awesome that’s the info I needed! I’ll scrap the idea for my digis then but I’ll keep it in mind for my led lit future!
My guess is that running dc through an ac rated relay is a big no no?


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## Renfro (Mar 20, 2020)

Maccatheclown said:


> My guess is that running dc through an ac rated relay is a big no no?


Most contactors have a voltage rating for both, so it might be rated 600 VAC and 100 VDC.

You can use an AC rated contactor for a DC feed BUT it should have an AC rating that is 5 or 6 times greater than the DC voltage it will carry. This is due to the continuous nature of DC power causing contacts to weld closed.


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## Renfro (Mar 20, 2020)

When switching DC voltages the arc is what wears out contacts. In high voltage DC control circuits an arc suppression diode is often implemented to prevent premature failure of the contacts.

This helps explain that concept, and other similar methods of mitigation.



https://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics/application_notes/reed_switches/littelfuse_magnetic_sensors_and_reed_switches_inductive_load_arc_suppression_application_note.pdf.pdf


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## Maccatheclown (Mar 20, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Most contactors have a voltage rating for both, so it might be rated 600 VAC and 100 VDC.
> 
> You can use an AC rated contactor for a DC feed BUT it should have an AC rating that is 5 or 6 times greater than the DC voltage it will carry. This is due to the continuous nature of DC power causing contacts to weld closed.


Awesome man I thought along those lines but didn’t no if it was a rule or just something my head had put together by not wanting to die while experimenting lol. In your opinion what would be the max dc voltage you would run through A 250v ac rated relay?
does the rule of multiplication apply to amps as well as volts or are dc amps and ac amps the same in those case, thanks heaps for your help by the way man, I got excited before and forgot my manners last post


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## Renfro (Mar 20, 2020)

Another good option for switching DC power is solid state relays.


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## Renfro (Mar 20, 2020)

Maccatheclown said:


> In your opinion what would be the max dc voltage you would run through A 250v ac rated relay?


40 - 50 VDC would be the max I would be comfortable with but at 25 VDC the contacts would last longer. If building a flip it's good to use contactors with piggy back / slave contacts. You wire these such that a contactor has to physically open before the circuit for the coil voltage is completed for the contactor on the other side of the flip. This way there can't be a condition where a contactor welds closed and the other one closes also doubling the load on the ballast/driver.

You can see in this image of my flip box that I built, there are two siemens 40 amp contactors with the piggy backs.


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## Maccatheclown (Mar 20, 2020)

Renfro said:


> When switching DC voltages the arc is what wears out contacts. In high voltage DC control circuits an arc suppression diode is often implemented to prevent premature failure of the contacts.
> 
> This helps explain that concept, and other similar methods of mitigation.
> 
> ...


Thanks man I’ll keep reading and come back to pick your brain again if I need to and if your still willing to share your knowledge, thanks again man your a legend! 


Renfro said:


> 40 - 50 VDC would be the max I would be comfortable with but at 25 VDC the contacts would last longer. If building a flip it's good to use contactors with piggy back / slave contacts. You wire these such that a contactor has to physically open before the circuit for the coil voltage is completed for the contactor on the other side of the flip. This way there can't be a condition where a contactor welds closed and the other one closes also doubling the load on the ballast/driver.
> 
> You can see in this image of my flip box that I built, there are two siemens 40 amp contactors with the piggy backs.
> 
> View attachment 4508958


Can’t thank you enough honestly this is why I love the herb, the people and the community! Peace man


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## Thebigyin (Mar 24, 2020)

I bought an inline ac infinity t6 fan, it looks like it has an American style plug on it and I live in the UK, any ideas on converting it to run on UK power supply?


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## Dee Muney (Jun 23, 2020)

Hey guys!

I just purchased a Prism Lighting Science 315w Ceramic Metal Halide CM 120/240V Ballast
& a Sun System LEC 315 RA CMH Remote Reflector w/ a Phillips bulb.

This would be my first time running a somewhat high intensity light and just wanted to be as safe as possible. I am not very clear on the electrical aspects of the circuit breakers and ballast output and so on.

I attached an image of my circuit breaker info. Any help would be greatly appreciated 

Rating 125 Amps Max


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## Renfro (Jun 23, 2020)

Dee Muney said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I just purchased a Prism Lighting Science 315w Ceramic Metal Halide CM 120/240V Ballast
> & a Sun System LEC 315 RA CMH Remote Reflector w/ a Phillips bulb.
> ...


A 315 only pulls about 2.7 amps at 120 volts. Not a big load by any means.


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## lokie (Jun 23, 2020)

Thebigyin said:


> I bought an inline ac infinity t6 fan, it looks like it has an American style plug on it and I live in the UK, any ideas on converting it to run on UK power supply?


An excellent fan I went with the S8 to run 3 tents.



Amazon customer question.

is it 110v only or 220v compatible as well? 

Yes.....page 16 of the owners manual say "STEP 6...Lastly, plug the power adapter into an AC power outlet. The adapter is rated at 100 to 240 V AC.
50/60 Hz and a plug adaptor can be attached to make it compatible to various outlet types"
That power adapter plugs into the thermal controller, the thermal controller is where you select the running modes, temperature settings/units, fan speed and other parameters. The fan motor is DC and voltage is supplied by the controller. Hope this helps and answers your questions!

BillyJoe
· December 20, 2017
Leave a Comment 
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| Report abuse
Yes, this unit can handle 220v....with the right plug connector. The fan runs on 24V DC. The power pack (transformer) that comes with the unit can work on 110-240V. The plug end however is a standard 110v plug, so it will require an adapter for a 220 wall socket according to what standard you have. Typically available for a couple of dollars.

dbc
· December 21, 2017
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Hello there,

Thank you for taking the time to reach out to us with your product question! The CLOUDLINE T6 controller is able to be powered by a 100-240V wall adapter voltage range.

Thank you for your question!

Kind regards,

Andrew Avila
AC Infinity





__





Amazon.com: Customer Questions & Answers






www.amazon.com










Looks like you need an adapter similar to this to mate to your outlet.


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## lokie (Jun 23, 2020)

Dee Muney said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I just purchased a Prism Lighting Science 315w Ceramic Metal Halide CM 120/240V Ballast
> & a Sun System LEC 315 RA CMH Remote Reflector w/ a Phillips bulb.
> ...


You need to consider what else is on the circuit with the light.

"Gen LTG", translated to General Lighting, is vague.


A circuit near max may take the load of the bulb but the initial firing may blow the breaker.


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## Thebigyin (Jun 23, 2020)

lokie said:


> An excellent fan I went with the S8 to run 3 tents.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I got an adaptor and it works great on 240v, good to know that I can run the fan on 24v DC, as it happens I've got a solar array set up, 24v truck battery powering some stuff in my garage, I'm planning to run a modded Wilma system in the future running pumps and air curtains using my solar system, thanks for info, most appreciated.


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## Dee Muney (Jun 23, 2020)

Renfro said:


> A 315 only pulls about 2.7 amps at 120 volts. Not a big load by any means.


So you would think it’s safe to run? I really don’t have much anything else running in the apartment besides the basics. Fridge, AC, stove which barely gets used. I have tv’s but I don’t really use those much either.


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## Renfro (Jun 23, 2020)

Dee Muney said:


> So you would think it’s safe to run? I really don’t have much anything else running in the apartment besides the basics. Fridge, AC, stove which barely gets used. I have tv’s but I don’t really use those much either.


Of course. It would take 3 of those 315's to draw almost as much power as the average microwave oven.


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## Dee Muney (Jun 24, 2020)

lokie said:


> You need to consider what else is on the circuit with the light.
> 
> "Gen LTG", translated to General Lighting, is vague.
> 
> ...



Are you referring to the circuit model or catalog number? Im a little confused as to the Gen LTG or General Lighting.

There wont be much else on the circuit besides fridge, stove (which is rarely used), Microwave and the AC unit.
I am also going to be running an AC infinity Cloudline S6 fan and a few small fans. Overall i dont think I have too high of a load. 

I am the only person that lives here and appliances are not used often.


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## lokie (Jun 24, 2020)

Dee Muney said:


> Are you referring to the circuit model or catalog number? Im a little confused as to the Gen LTG or General Lighting.
> 
> There wont be much else on the circuit besides fridge, stove (which is rarely used), Microwave and the AC unit.
> I am also going to be running an AC infinity Cloudline S6 fan and a few small fans. Overall i dont think I have too high of a load.
> ...


The circuits in the pic you posted are labeled as "gen ltg." 

"much else on the circuit besides fridge, stove (which is rarely used), Microwave and the AC unit."

I once had a circuit work fine *until *the dryer AND microwave ran at the same time. Circuit blown.

rarely used or not, if everything on that circuit is running at the same time how close are you to the max current drain?

When the light comes on it is dim and warms up. During this warm up time the bulb draws more current than when it is at its brightest.

If your circuit is near max to start, the "Warm Up" time has the potential to blow the circuit.


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## Sleez (Nov 28, 2020)

I know nothing about electricity but just got a Spartan 8 light controller. They say I need a 50amp breaker. That’s all I really know. What wire should I get and do I even have the space for it. Here’s my circuit box. Thx


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## Renfro (Nov 28, 2020)

#6 copper for a 50 amp feed. Looks like you will need a homeline style double pole 50a breaker for your box.


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## Renfro (Nov 28, 2020)

You have a picture of the inside of the house behind the panel? If it's easy enough to get a wire in to the back of the panel then it's should be pretty straight forward. If you have a finished wall behind that panel then you will need to cut some drywall.

Shouldn't need the neutral for that controller so 6-2 copper is what you want.


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## Renfro (Nov 28, 2020)

Breaker:








Square D Homeline 50 Amp 2-Pole Circuit Breaker(HOM250CP) HOM250CP - The Home Depot


The Square D by Schneider Electric Homeline 50 Amp Two-Pole Circuit Breaker is used for overload and short-circuit protection of your electrical system. This breaker is compatible with Homeline load centers



www.homedepot.com





Cable:








Southwire 50 ft. 6/2 Stranded Romex SIMpull CU NM-B W/G Wire 28894422 - The Home Depot


Wire residential indoor branch circuits for outlets, switches and other loads with Southwire Romex SIMpull Type NM-B Cable. SlikQuik jacket allows for 50% reduction in pulling force for easier installation.



www.homedepot.com





Box Connectors:








Halex 1 in. Non-Metallic (NM) Twin-Screw Clamp Connector 90513 - The Home Depot


The 1 in. Twin-Screw Clamp Connector is designed to connect non-metallic sheathed cable and flexible cord to a steel outlet box or other metal enclosure. Corrosion resistant. Locknut is reversible. It



www.homedepot.com


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## Sleez (Nov 28, 2020)

Thx and the wall behind the circuit panel is just drywall. Here’s a pic of the light controller and wall.


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## Renfro (Nov 28, 2020)

Sleez said:


> Thx and the wall behind the circuit panel is just drywall.


So the controller is right on the other side of the wall from your panel?


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## Sleez (Nov 28, 2020)

Renfro said:


> So the controller is right on the other side of the wall from your panel?


No it’s a finished wall right behind the panel. And I will need to run that copper wire about 25-30ft to my grow room. So are u saying I should run the wire inside my house from the back of the panel?


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## Renfro (Nov 28, 2020)

Sleez said:


> So are u saying I should run the wire inside my house from the back of the panel?


Probably not, thats why I asked, if it was back to back then yeah, stub conduit and THHN... But...

If you want to go surface mount along the exterior wall (any obstructions out there?) you could use some conduit off the panel outside, run along the wall to where you want to enter the grow room (is it located along that same wall?) then go through the wall using a (LB / pull corner) and conduit right into the back of the controller (does it have a back side knockout?) or into the side using a pull corner (elbow with a plate that comes off the corner to pull wires) That would be real pro way to do it. To figure out the absolute easiest and best way to run the cable is the real deal most of the time, terminating the ends is the easy bit lol. If you can stay in the conduit for the whole run box to box then you can just buy some THHN strands green, red and black is probably all you need without a neutral. This all being said, will you ever want more power from that panel into that room for a dehu or AC? If so maybe now is the time to put in a subpanel in the grow room and then feed your lighting controller off that and have ability to add more circuits later without doing any more "home runs".


----------



## delacruz (Nov 28, 2020)

Hey Bricktown,
I'm trying to wire a remote humistat to my quest dual 105 dehumidifier. Thr remote I'm using is a trolmaster hs-1 and hsc-1. Most quest dehumidifiers seem to have an external 24v bus on the outside of the unit near the controls. These are compatible and easily connected to the external humidistat. My model doesn't seem to have a bus. I'm as far from electrical friendly as you can get so any advice will be appreciated and put to good use.


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## Sleez (Nov 28, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Probably not, thats why I asked, if it was back to back then yeah, stub conduit and THHN... But...
> 
> If you want to go surface mount along the exterior wall (any obstructions out there?) you could use some conduit off the panel outside, run along the wall to where you want to enter the grow room (is it located along that same wall?) then go through the wall using a (LB / pull corner) and conduit right into the back of the controller (does it have a back side knockout?) or into the side using a pull corner (elbow with a plate that comes off the corner to pull wires) That would be real pro way to do it. To figure out the absolute easiest and best way to run the cable is the real deal most of the time, terminating the ends is the easy bit lol. If you can stay in the conduit for the whole run box to box then you can just buy some THHN strands green, red and black is probably all you need without a neutral. This all being said, will you ever want more power from that panel into that room for a dehu or AC? If so maybe now is the time to put in a subpanel in the grow room and then feed your lighting controller off that and have ability to add more circuits later without doing any more "home runs".


I’m most likely going to have someone do it for me if I have to add a sub panel in the grow room. Owner of the house doesn’t want me to add sub panel. That’s why I got the light controller. But it’s not on the same wall I will have to run conduit. I’m basically going from one side of the house to the other. And I’m not sure what lb pull corner is but I’ll do some research. I appreciate the help. Don’t wanna get ripped off if I do have someone come in. I was quoted at 800-1000 for sub panel before.


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## Renfro (Nov 28, 2020)

Sleez said:


> I’m most likely going to have someone do it for me if I have to add a sub panel in the grow room. Owner of the house doesn’t want me to add sub panel. That’s why I got the light controller. But it’s not on the same wall I will have to run conduit. I’m basically going from one side of the house to the other. And I’m not sure what lb pull corner is but I’ll do some research. I appreciate the help. Don’t wanna get ripped off if I do have someone come in. I was quoted at 800-1000 for sub panel before.


Honestly the difference between a subpanel and the lighting controller at this point, as far as the home owner is concerned, might just be one size up on the conduit. Since it's a complex run I couldn't estimate the job without looking at it but the 800-1000 number sounds very much inline with normal rates, might even be a good deal if it's a hard run.


----------



## Renfro (Nov 28, 2020)

delacruz said:


> Hey Bricktown,
> I'm trying to wire a remote humistat to my quest dual 105 dehumidifier. Thr remote I'm using is a trolmaster hs-1 and hsc-1. Most quest dehumidifiers seem to have an external 24v bus on the outside of the unit near the controls. These are compatible and easily connected to the external humidistat. My model doesn't seem to have a bus. I'm as far from electrical friendly as you can get so any advice will be appreciated and put to good use.


Sounds like you need to box up a contactor to switch the 120v power for the dehu. A contactor with a 24 VAC coil voltage so you can use the 24 VAC signal from the trollmaster.


----------



## Sleez (Nov 30, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Honestly the difference between a subpanel and the lighting controller at this point, as far as the home owner is concerned, might just be one size up on the conduit. Since it's a complex run I couldn't estimate the job without looking at it but the 800-1000 number sounds very much inline with normal rates, might even be a good deal if it's a hard run.


I watched one video and now I have a better understanding of what you’re saying but have another question. Does the thhn strands connect to the romex? And why not just use romex with conduit? Is it hard to fish through? And also on the romex wire. Is the black and white wire hot? Those would be the two wires going straight to the breaker right? Sorry for al the questions. Really want to do this myself.


----------



## Renfro (Nov 30, 2020)

Sleez said:


> I watched one video and now I have a better understanding of what you’re saying but have another question. Does the thhn strands connect to the romex? And why not just use romex with conduit? Is it hard to fish through? And also on the romex wire. Is the black and white wire hot? Those would be the two wires going straight to the breaker right? Sorry for al the questions. Really want to do this myself.


THHN needs to be in conduit where the non metallic cable is designed to be run in the interior walls. You could junction the two in a junction box but usually the THHN/THWN is run from box to box using conduit all the way. 


Sleez said:


> And why not just use romex with conduit? Is it hard to fish through?


The additional insulation makes the NM cable very much more difficult to pull through conduit unless you upsize the conduit.



Sleez said:


> . Is the black and white wire hot?


The white is normally neutral so if pulling a feed for a subpanel you would use wire with the extra red conductor so the white can be the neutral. If pulling a 240 volt lighting circuit you can use the white for the second hot since no neutral is required. Just makr both ends with black or red tape.


----------



## Sleez (Nov 30, 2020)

Is this a sub panel? It’s connected to my ac unit


----------



## Sleez (Nov 30, 2020)

Or this for my pool. But if I could somehow tap into these it would save me so much hassle.


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## Renfro (Nov 30, 2020)

Sleez said:


> Is this a sub panel? It’s connected to my ac unit


Disconnect. Don't mess with it.


Sleez said:


> Or this for my pool. But if I could somehow tap into these it would save me so much hassle.


I would leave the pool power supply alone.


----------



## ypbiscuit (Dec 1, 2020)

I need to connect an old sub panel in a storage container I bought . The container is all wired up with outlets everywhere and was previously hooked to the house it was at . Was hoping I could connect it from a panel in my garage that has a double pole 30amp breaker somehow . The container panel is about 15ft away from the panel in my garage . 

Any ideas ? Thanks


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## ypbiscuit (Dec 3, 2020)

Bump ... Anyone have some guidance on getting this panel powered ? I have an 18k mini split and hoping to run a room with 2400-3600w of LEDs . 

I think I'll be spray foaming inside . 

I just had a new baby boy so I'm off work for while and may have time to get this project done and cranking !

Thanks ! 



ypbiscuit said:


> I need to connect an old sub panel in a storage container I bought . The container is all wired up with outlets everywhere and was previously hooked to the house it was at . Was hoping I could connect it from a panel in my garage that has a double pole 30amp breaker somehow . The container panel is about 15ft away from the panel in my garage .
> 
> Any ideas ? Thanks View attachment 4756763View attachment 4756764


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## Drop That Sound (Dec 8, 2020)

Have a question: I had got a fat weatherproof 240v 30ft 50 amp RV extension cord that I cut the end off of and wired into a 70 amp dual breaker slot sub panel from lowes. The RV cord has 4 wires, the 2 hots, ground, and neutral. I put a 50 amp breaker with a receptical to plug the other end into, no problems im only 10 feet from the main panel outside so I didnt put a ground rod. I just split the 240 by running the 2 main wires to each 120 breaker, instead of both of them going into a bigger 240 breaker. 


Now, I never planned to pull anywhere near 50 amps let alone the 70 that the box is rated for, it was the smallest they had. Also thought it would be nice to have extra circuits by adding 2 duplex dual breakers for a total of 4 circuits. One with double 20s and one with double 15s. I left the grounding screw out too, and its installed in a trailer.

The question is, is each wire in the cord basically rated for max of 25 amps? And how does the fact they both share a single smaller neutral wire in the cord affect the overall way I set it up, as in.. is it even safe to pull so many amps from one of the 120 legs without somehow affecting the circuits that are also being used on the other 120 because of the single neutral? 

Ive been running it that way for a few years and its weird because I never made full sense of it, just hooked it up and it works. Sort of. I purposefully over built the 2 20 amp circuits only to run one 1000w lamp on each, but for some reason plugging a 1500 watt space heater or sometimes a skillsaw alone will trip them, even with nothing else running on any other circuit. 

I know 50 amp RVs basically just have the extra wire to constantly run an AC unit, so why is a skillsaw kicking my 20 amp breaker when I should have atleast 20 amps for sure. 

Have I created some kind of bad ground loop or something, or is square d just a cheap brand.?


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## Renfro (Dec 8, 2020)

Drop That Sound said:


> I just split the 240 by running the 2 main wires to each 120 breaker, instead of both of them going into a bigger 240 breaker.


Why? You have a pic? Really man, pics would be worth a lot more than words when it comes up to the wiring. If it's a tandem breaker you are pulling the singles from then they are both on the same phase for example. I really need to see how you wired each panel, cover off.

If you have any 240 volt loads you really want both legs to trip if there is an overcurrent condition.


Drop That Sound said:


> I had got a fat weatherproof 240v 30ft 50 amp RV extension cord that I cut the end off of and wired into a 70 amp dual breaker slot sub panel from lowes.





Drop That Sound said:


> The question is, is each wire in the cord basically rated for max of 25 amps?


What gauge is the cord? If it's a 50 amp cord it should be at least #6 copper and it's designed to run on a 50 amp breaker that generally trips around 80% continuous so about 40 amps available at 240 volts or 2x40 amps @ 120 volts.

You have me rather confused as to exactly how this is wired so if you post pics of how it's all wired up I can perhaps help locate the problem/s.


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## ypbiscuit (Dec 8, 2020)

Hi Renfro. By chance did you see my post on trying to connect a subpanel from my garage to a cargo container I just bought ? 

I'm outside playing with my new puppy , looking at the wiring now . 




Renfro said:


> Why? You have a pic? Really man, pics would be worth a lot more than words when it comes up to the wiring. If it's a tandem breaker you are pulling the singles from then they are both on the same phase for example. I really need to see how you wired each panel, cover off.
> 
> If you have any 240 volt loads you really want both legs to trip if there is an overcurrent condition.
> 
> ...


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## Sleez (Dec 8, 2020)

Did anybody confirm if we could use meanwell drivers on 240v? Do I need an adapter? On my light controller is has universal sockets I guess u would call it. To where I can just plug in regular plug instead on the 220 or 240v plug


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## Wastei (Dec 8, 2020)

bricktown73 said:


> This doesn't really apply to AC current for your project. In theory you would be wiring this in series, just wire the black to the black, white to the white, and if there is a green or just naked wire: green/naked to green/naked. And that is it.


What are you talking about? Of course you must wire this in parallel connection. Otherwise you will not get uniform voltage. Why the hell would you leave earthing out of the wiring?

Sure you're the right person to give out electrical advices?


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## GlueSniffer (Dec 8, 2020)

Wastei said:


> What are you talking about? Of course you must wire this in parallel connection. Otherwise you will not get uniform voltage. Why the hell would you leave earthing out of the wiring?
> 
> Sure you're the right person to give out electrical advices?


lol I saw this thread, read the first answer - and thought the same as you. White to white, black to black is correct - but it is not SERIES. If you want the same voltage at each, you use parallel. That guys been confused for a decade.


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## Drop That Sound (Dec 8, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Why? You have a pic? Really man, pics would be worth a lot more than words when it comes up to the wiring. If it's a tandem breaker you are pulling the singles from then they are both on the same phase for example. I really need to see how you wired each panel, cover off.
> 
> If you have any 240 volt loads you really want both legs to trip if there is an overcurrent condition.
> 
> ...



Thanks, phase was definately one of the words I was looking for., and something i think might be off.

This is the cord: http://www.camco.net/power-grip-50-amp-pigtail-power-cord-hardwire-30-foot-55189


I have a 50 amp breaker in the main panel outside on a post. From there I pulled 4 correctly gauged solid wires through some flex conduit into a 4 prong 50 amp receptical, on the same post below.. sometimes I plug the welders in too, just wired as normal.

From there I plugged in the male end of the rv cord ,and ran it over to the trailer. The other end I pulled throught conduit and cut off the female end , and then wired into the sub panel inside. I did not use the bond screw.


I put 2 tandem breakers in, same brand as the box, a double 20 and a double 15 for a total of 70 amps and 4 circuits. I suppose its made to do either dual 120s or a single 240 breaker for a hot tub, etc. The tandem 20.. each one go's a few feet into their own single dedicated 20 amp recepticals with heavier duty wire into the flower room. On the tandem 15, one is all the main workroom recepticals, and the other just for the veg room, etc. It does have a gfci toward the end of the circuit for a pump on one of the 15s.. should it actually be the closest outlet first to protect all the boxes instead, or im not even suppost to have one at all the way i'm wired up? Could that be my problem?

The weird part is i have the problem tripping breakers most on the 20s. My 1000 watt digitals fire no problem, but running a skill saw will trip it. Not as bad on one of the 15 amp circuits for some reason, but still does on those too, even plugged directly in without an extension. Air compressors, space heaters, any thing with a higher starting amperage will kit it.

Im not sure what gives when I have some serious amperage running up in there (just to run a small hobby garden), and want to run power tools outside once in awhile too when not running lights.

Ill be back with pics soon.


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## Drop That Sound (Dec 9, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Why? You have a pic? Really man, pics would be worth a lot more than words when it comes up to the wiring. If it's a tandem breaker you are pulling the singles from then they are both on the same phase for example. I really need to see how you wired each panel, cover off.
> 
> If you have any 240 volt loads you really want both legs to trip if there is an overcurrent condition.
> 
> ...


Thanks again.


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## Renfro (Dec 9, 2020)

Drop That Sound said:


> Thanks again.


Yeah didn't give the pic I really needed, the panel with the 50 amp breaker sans cover.


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## Renfro (Dec 9, 2020)

Also, in the first image, is that top neutral wire on the bus showing signs of heat (dark insulation near the terminal). Make sure that it's tight, loose terminals can cause that to happen.


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## Renfro (Dec 9, 2020)

BTW very neat wiring job but you might wanna ditch the zip ties in the panel. I despise that, bundled wires in a panel. If one wire gets too hot and melts you have a much bigger mess when they are all tied in a bundle.


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## Drop That Sound (Dec 10, 2020)

Ok im headed back to the main panel, it had been raining and wet and I found another problem so didnt wanna open it yet without tools & a new receptical. I found out that one of the 20s (I beleive is attached to that main 50 im using in the middle) is going to another outdoor receptical with a gfci that quit working. It worked when I put in the sub panel a few years back.. find out soon when I can see and take pics.

So its actually 90 amp shared breaker im working from. The third 20 amp circuit on the main breaker im not too sure, runs out to the old shed I think. 

Ill remove the zips and check for heat stress too On the nuetral. Be back again soon, appreciate your inspection!


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## Renfro (Dec 10, 2020)

Drop That Sound said:


> Ok im headed back to the main panel, it had been raining and wet and I found another problem so didnt wanna open it yet without tools & a new receptical. I found out that one of the 20s (I beleive is attached to that main 50 im using in the middle) is going to another outdoor receptical with a gfci that quit working. It worked when I put in the sub panel a few years back.. find out soon when I can see and take pics.
> 
> So its actually 90 amp shared breaker im working from. The third 20 amp circuit on the main breaker im not too sure, runs out to the old shed I think.
> 
> Ill remove the zips and check for heat stress too On the nuetral. Be back again soon, appreciate your inspection!


If you have an amp clamp handy you might put it on the hot wire coming off the breaker thats tripping when you start the saw. See whats going on from that angle when the saw is fired up. If there are other loads on there then it will be apparent as well.


Drop That Sound said:


> It does have a gfci toward the end of the circuit for a pump on one of the 15s.. should it actually be the closest outlet first to protect all the boxes instead, or im not even suppost to have one at all the way i'm wired up? Could that be my problem?


On the GFI question it all depends on if you want the other receptacles chained off the protected side of the GFI. Then they are all protected and if the GFI trips all those receptacles would shut down. Might not want something like a fan shut down because a pump has a problem so it's up to you what receptacles you want protected by the GFI. If the GFI is the problem then I would suspect that it would trip, thats usually their problem, haven't heard of one drawing current on it's own without melting down lol. Again the amp clamp will help find if there is any current being drawn, if you suspect the GFI is somehow pulling current then just press it's test button and trip it. Then see if the draw is gone. I don't think that it's the problem though.


----------



## Troutguide (Dec 10, 2020)

So I want to set up an 18 light room 1000w hps. How do I set up a timer for all of the lights? Looking for the easiest, cheapest solution that is not manual.


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## Renfro (Dec 11, 2020)

Troutguide said:


> So I want to set up an 18 light room 1000w hps. How do I set up a timer for all of the lights? Looking for the easiest, cheapest solution that is not manual.


What lights? Some lights can simply be plugged in and remotely controlled by specific means. If you are just talking generic lights that have no remote control feature then a lighting controller is the way to go.









Home | Titan Controls


Titan Controls, is a manufacturer of environmental controls, precision timers, lighting controllers and CO2 equipment based in the Pacific Northwest.




www.titancontrols.net





You can use one big controller or a couple smaller ones. I prefer the smaller ones without a timer and plug the trigger cord into a reliable digital timer.


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## 1212ham (Dec 11, 2020)

Sleez said:


> Did anybody confirm if we could use meanwell drivers on 240v? Do I need an adapter? On my light controller is has universal sockets I guess u would call it. To where I can just plug in regular plug instead on the 220 or 240v plug


Look up the datasheet for your driver. Meanwell drivers operate on 90 - 305 volts. As for an adapter, I don't know what plug is on your driver. If it fits your controller it should be ok.


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## Sleez (Dec 11, 2020)

1212ham said:


> Look up the datasheet for your driver. Meanwell drivers operate on 90 - 305 volts. As for an adapter, I don't know what plug is on your driver. If it fits your controller it should be ok.


Thanks man. Appreciate the help. I ended up calling meanwell directly. And he told me I could with no adapters. Like you said it operates up to 305 volts.


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## 2com (Jan 4, 2021)

I just realized I posted my question in the other thread of the same name, weird.


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## Mrgoodsusa (Jan 6, 2021)

bricktown73 said:


> Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.
> 
> Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


Hi. How do I know how much amp run in my breaker box. I don’t know if I asked that correctly. Gracias.


----------



## guitarguy10 (Jan 6, 2021)

I am waiting on some HLG QB120 boards (70W each) and a user here @ilovereggae is helping me out with some drivers, wagos, etc. etc. (very much appreciated btw). I will be wiring 2 boards in parralel on one driver (Delta LNE-24V120WDAA) with a potentiometer.

The only thing I have left is the wire to use on the DC side. I have tonnes of 22 gauge wire that I use with my arduino and rasp. pi microcontrollers. Would this wire be sufficient/safe enough to carry the load this setup will produce?

The only source of information I could find on the National Electric Code on maximum rated amperage for a given wire gauge only goes as 'low' as 14 gauge wire, it doesn't show the max amperage for anything above (thinner) then 14 gauge:




__





Wire Size Chart


Wire Size Chart and current limits for wire gauges




wiresizecalculator.net


----------



## 2com (Jan 6, 2021)

guitarguy10 said:


> I am waiting on some HLG QB120 boards (70W each) and a user here @ilovereggae is helping me out with some drivers, wagos, etc. etc. (very much appreciated btw). I will be wiring 2 boards in parralel on one driver (Delta LNE-24V120WDAA) with a potentiometer.
> 
> The only thing I have left is the wire to use on the DC side. I have tonnes of 22 gauge wire that I use with my arduino and rasp. pi microcontrollers. Would this wire be sufficient/safe enough to carry the load this setup will produce?
> 
> ...


For the DC side? I'd suggest you get some 18awg solid. "Shaxon" or "NTE" or whatever brand from amazon is good. Or maybe some 18awg solid "door bell" wire from home store, etc.


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## bodhipop (Feb 22, 2021)

I have a rather dumb question but I keep hearing different things on the subject.
Does switching your main breaker off and back on multiple times in a year cause wear or damage? Should you always leave it on except for repairs?
I have a cabin that I was not staying at. When I would leave for multiple weeks, I would unplug all appliances and switch the main breaker off.
I've never had an issue but I must of done this 10 times over the course of a year before I read you should not do this. I would also leave the circuit branches all on and just switch the main. There was a squirrel stuck up in the attic so this is why I chose to cut the power off while I was not there.


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## Ben123456733 (Feb 22, 2021)

bodhipop said:


> I have a rather dumb question but I keep hearing different things on the subject.
> Does switching your main breaker off and back on multiple times in a year cause wear or damage? Should you always leave it on except for repairs?
> I have a cabin that I was not staying at. When I would leave for multiple weeks, I would unplug all appliances and switch the main breaker off.
> I've never had an issue but I must of done this 10 times over the course of a year before I read you should not do this. I would also leave the circuit branches all on and just switch the main. There was a squirrel stuck up in the attic so this is why I chose to cut the power off while I was not there.


In a case like that I'd say you are doing the right thing.
Breakers will wear down with use, like anything else.
That being said it will be able to be turned on and off hundreds of times and if it were to fail it would simply not turn back on and supply power to the panel.
On top of that, a new main breaker will cost $40-$300 for the material on residential property.
There most likely would be no issue leaving the power on , but the way I look at it you replace a $300 part or your house


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## Lurrabq (Feb 23, 2021)

bodhipop said:


> I have a rather dumb question but I keep hearing different things on the subject.
> Does switching your main breaker off and back on multiple times in a year cause wear or damage? Should you always leave it on except for repairs?
> I have a cabin that I was not staying at. When I would leave for multiple weeks, I would unplug all appliances and switch the main breaker off.
> I've never had an issue but I must of done this 10 times over the course of a year before I read you should not do this. I would also leave the circuit branches all on and just switch the main. There was a squirrel stuck up in the attic so this is why I chose to cut the power off while I was not there.


Something to note. It is recommended to 'exercise' the breakers by turning them off every 6 months for a sufficient time to let the trip spring relax and cool fully. Good facilities managers work this into the maintenance schedules.


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## 2com (Feb 23, 2021)

Lurrabq said:


> Something to note. It is recommended to 'exercise' the breakers by turning them off every 6 months for a sufficient time to let the trip spring relax and cool fully. Good facilities managers work this into the maintenance schedules.


Cool, I've never heard of that.


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## Lurrabq (Mar 15, 2021)

2com said:


> Cool, I've never heard of that.


A Square "D" and a Cutler-hammer engineer both shared that with me.


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## Gtjoker420 (Oct 14, 2022)

How do I connect my 4 light controller to my dryer outlet so I can power my 4 lights.

I’ve ran the 10/2 Romex from the outlet to the grow room but haven’t connected the plug yet: this is the plug style I got. It says non grounding which I didn’t notice at first


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## pahpah-cee (Oct 14, 2022)

Gtjoker420 said:


> How do I connect my 4 light controller to my dryer outlet so I can power my 4 lights.
> 
> I’ve ran the 10/2 Romex from the outlet to the grow room but haven’t connected the plug yet: this is the plug style I got. It says non grounding which I didn’t notice at first


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## Gtjoker420 (Oct 14, 2022)

pahpah-cee said:


> View attachment 5212493


So as long as I make sure the outlet is wired like this then I can wire the non grounding plug with the plug wire and safely run 4 700watt leds?


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## rkymtnman (Oct 14, 2022)

Gtjoker420 said:


> So as long as I make sure the outlet is wired like this then I can wire the non grounding plug with the plug wire and safely run 4 700watt leds?


240v x 30A x 80% safety factor= 5760 watts


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## Gtjoker420 (Oct 14, 2022)

rkymtnman said:


> 240v x 30A x 80% safety factor= 5760 watts


So I’m safe?


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## rkymtnman (Oct 14, 2022)

Gtjoker420 said:


> So I’m safe?


4 x 700w=?


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## pahpah-cee (Oct 14, 2022)

Assuming the breaker is wired properly you should be good to go.

you can always check your work after with a multimeter.


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## Gtjoker420 (Oct 14, 2022)

pahpah-cee said:


> Assuming the breaker is wired properly you should be good to go.
> 
> you can always check your work after with a multimeter.


Awesome thank yall


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