# 630W DE CMH - Anyone running these?



## Renfro (Jan 15, 2019)

I have been looking at the 630 watt DE CMH setups. Does anyone here have experience with one? How do they compare to a 1000 watt DE HPS for yields? Heat?


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## Flagg420 (Jan 15, 2019)

link it up, im in the market soon... love my 315s in place of the 600s, planning to swap 2 1K's for a pair of DE CMH, but want DE not dual bulb... little rarer


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## Renfro (Jan 15, 2019)

https://www.amazon.com/Growers-Choice-Horticultural-Lighting-CERAMIC/dp/B073SKDJQP

They sell a ballast and bulb combo, use existing socket / reflector.

https://lumatek-lighting.com/2018/02/13/630w-de-cmh-kit/

They also sell a ballast and bulb combo, can't find it in the US though, perhaps waiting for UL approval??


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## Renfro (Jan 15, 2019)

I have heard that I can use the bulb with a high frequency DE HPS ballast dimmed to 600 watts.


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## Aeroknow (Jan 16, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I have heard that I can use the bulb with a high frequency DE HPS ballast dimmed to 600 watts.


Yup.
When they first came out I bought 4 of them and gave them a go. I used my
Phantom DE ballasts turned down to 60%. Each light was over a 4x4 area.


Renfro said:


> I have been looking at the 630 watt DE CMH setups. Does anyone here have experience with one? How do they compare to a 1000 watt DE HPS for yields? Heat?


Didn’t do a side-by-side comparison with them but I would say they yield what you would expect to yield from a 1000w DE ballast with a regular hps bulb turned down to 60% lol. They worked pretty good for me the run I did with them. Not quite the yields as from a single ended 1000W hps but close, although I never did a side by side because ever since I switched to DE in the bloom rooms I ditched the single ended setups.

After one run of experimenting with them I threw them in my veg room. With them I had finally converted my larger veg room to DE/cmh lighting and never looked back.


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## Renfro (Jan 16, 2019)

Aeroknow said:


> Yup.
> When they first came out I bought 4 of them and gave them a go. I used my
> Phantom DE ballasts turned down to 60%. Each light was over a 4x4 area.
> 
> ...


Right on. Reading the Lumen Flux numbers they seem to be roughly equivalent to a 600 watt HPS.

I hear they are working on a 1000 watt DE CMH. That's what I will wait for.


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## Aeroknow (Jan 16, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Right on. Reading the Lumen Flux numbers they seem to be roughly equivalent to a 600 watt HPS.
> 
> I hear they are working on a 1000 watt DE CMH. That's what I will wait for.


I would take a par reading and compare to DE w/hps for you but I lost everything in The Camp Fire.  anyways, They still haven’t gotten that 1000W DE/cmh bulb out yet? Dang.


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## growingforfun (Jan 16, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Right on. Reading the Lumen Flux numbers they seem to be roughly equivalent to a 600 watt HPS.
> 
> I hear they are working on a 1000 watt DE CMH. That's what I will wait for.


I could be wrong but I think theres a extensive thread on icmag on the 1000 watt de cmh with several posters using them. I think it's like 13 pages long as of 4 months ago. I dont have a link but I'm pretty sure I remember reading it..


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## Renfro (Jan 16, 2019)

growingforfun said:


> I could be wrong but I think theres a extensive thread on icmag on the 1000 watt de cmh with several posters using them. I think it's like 13 pages long as of 4 months ago. I dont have a link but I'm pretty sure I remember reading it..


I only see nanolux brand though. I have had so many ballast failures with their 1000w DE HPS that I just don't trust them. I hope that Phantom or Sunsystem starts selling those.


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## RedDirtResin (Jan 16, 2019)

I run Sun system LEC 630. Same coverage as a 1k hps. Way less heat.


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## Renfro (Jan 16, 2019)

RedDirtResin said:


> I run Sun system LEC 630. Same coverage as a 1k hps. Way less heat. View attachment 4265780 View attachment 4265781


Is that a Double Ended single bulb or just two 315 singles in one reflector?


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## RedDirtResin (Jan 16, 2019)

2 315's in 1 reflector


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## Renfro (Jan 16, 2019)

RedDirtResin said:


> 2 315's in 1 reflector


Cool, I'm looking at the DE version with one 630 watt bulb. I suppose they also have a 1000 watt version of the DE CMH.

Reading the stats the 630 seems to be about the same lumens as a 600 watt HPS. I don't see how it could cover the same area and yield as much with 370 less watts but I would like it were that the case.


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## Apalchen (Jan 18, 2019)

I do better with two 315s than my de 630 it is in an acde style hood so there is glass taking some power away. My smallest yield out of my 4x8 was with two de 630. I thought was replacement for up to 2000 watts hps but it didn’t come close to 3 600 watts hps fixtures.


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## bottletoke (Jan 20, 2019)

Im taking down a wall and joining 2 flower rooms into 1 room. The old setup was 6 1000w gavita des in each im now doing 6 gavitas and 4 640w de cmh for the whole room. Im using proper cmh square wave ballasts. Too much of a loss running cmh in hps de ballasts.


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## Greenhomes (Jan 21, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I have been looking at the 630 watt DE CMH setups. Does anyone here have experience with one? How do they compare to a 1000 watt DE HPS for yields? Heat?


I use them in combination with de hps fixtures. They put out a little less heat than a 1000 watt hps. Approximately 2200 btu of heat as compared to 3400 btu (if you dont have ballasts in room). I combine them with hps so I get a lot more variety of light spectrums. They have more of a light spectrum that would be aimed at veg growth imo but they definitely can be used for bloom. I cant give you a side by side comparison of yield because I have always combined the 2 types of lights. I like the more white light output of the de cmh to work in than the orange of the de hps. I think nanolux makes a fixture with hps and cmh combined in one fixture.


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## Lucky Luke (Mar 26, 2019)

Ive just set up a Hi-PAR 630w DE CMH. in a 4 x 4 x 6. ( https://www.hi-par-horticulture.com/ )
Found its cooler than my 600w HPS.


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## Dividedsky (Mar 26, 2019)

Lucky Luke said:


> Ive just set up a Hi-PAR 630w DE CMH. in a 4 x 4 x 6. ( https://www.hi-par-horticulture.com/ )
> Found its cooler than my 600w HPS.


Ya I'm going to be purchasing 630s for a 2nd grow room. I was going to add 2 cheap 315 to my 4- 1000w/hps room to see how the are and could use a lil extra light in the middle of room. Are the cheap 315/630 cmh China lights on Amazon safe to use? I was thinking of buying a couple soon and throwing a Philips bulb in them.


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## Apalchen (Mar 26, 2019)

Dividedsky said:


> Ya I'm going to be purchasing 630s for a 2nd grow room. I was going to add 2 cheap 315 to my 4- 1000w/hps room to see how the are and could use a lil extra light in the middle of room. Are the cheap 315/630 cmh China lights on Amazon safe to use? I was thinking of buying a couple soon and throwing a Philips bulb in them.


I bought some ebm or eonboom lights from China 630 watt square wave de, and both ballast failed within 6 months and shipping was to much for warranty. Growershouse and htg both have decent deals on cmh with Phillips bulbs


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## Dividedsky (Mar 26, 2019)

Apalchen said:


> I bought some ebm or eonboom lights from China 630 watt square wave de, and both ballast failed within 6 months and shipping was to much for warranty. Growershouse and htg both have decent deals on cmh with Phillips bulbs


Ya I was looking at growers house also, liked the one with the adjustawing and the ballast by itself, you know the setup where the ballast is NOT connected to the hood.


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## AlaskaRob (Mar 26, 2019)

My dual bulb 630 cmh is vivosun. Got it on Amazon for about 220$. Havent had any problems with it at all. Used only one bulb for first couple weeks of veg, then put other bulb in to make it 630w. I love this thing! My experiences with different lights is very limited though. My buddy keeps telling me to put 1k hps in my 5x5 tent but I cant see how the heat would kill the plants or how I wouldnt be wasting money from oversaturating them with more light than the 6 plants in there could handle. I got 6 grandaddy purples in there now. Was going to go with 5, but figured I'll keep an extra in case something went wrong with one of them. Backfired in a great way tho as all are doing pretty damn good outside of newbie's experience level.


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## Dividedsky (Mar 26, 2019)

AlaskaRob said:


> My dual bulb 630 cmh is vivosun. Got it on Amazon for about 220$. Havent had any problems with it at all. Used only one bulb for first couple weeks of veg, then put other bulb in to make it 630w. I love this thing! My experiences with different lights is very limited though. My buddy keeps telling me to put 1k hps in my 5x5 tent but I cant see how the heat would kill the plants or how I wouldnt be wasting money from oversaturating them with more light than the 6 plants in there could handle. I got 6 grandaddy purples in there now. Was going to go with 5, but figured I'll keep an extra in case something went wrong with one of them. Backfired in a great way tho as all are doing pretty damn good outside of newbie's experience level.


 5x5 is the exact footprint for a 1000hps. I used to run one in my 5x5 gorilla grow tent and did very well, it's definitely not overkill in that space dude. That being said, no point in getting one if you running a 630cmh in that space for flower, unless you want to get 2 lights going in bloom...you'd also need a bigger space with those 2 lights than a 5x5. Hps and a 630 cmh, you'd do very well in that case. But ya why switch to an 1000w hps when you already have the 630? You're going to save on electric and snot have the high temps you'd get with the 1000 especially with summer on it's way. Also from what I hear the dual bulb can out perform a 1000 hps, not 100% sure on that, but some of my friends have switched from their hps to cmh(they swear by their cmh)and aren't looking back.


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## Lucky Luke (Mar 26, 2019)

Dividedsky said:


> Ya I was looking at growers house also, liked the one with the adjustawing and the ballast by itself, you know the setup where the ballast is NOT connected to the hood.


The Hi - Par can be used remotely and comes with the cable for doing so. They do kits as well that come with all you need. https://www.hi-par-horticulture.com/630w-dynamic-de-control-kit Not inexpensive though.


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## Renfro (Mar 26, 2019)

So I have been testing my 600 watt DE CMH bulb (Growers Choice / runs in a HPS ballast). Here is a shot showing it next to a 1kW HPS thats running on overdrive setting.

 

I am running the CMH on a Sunsystem ballast, it didn't work on my Phantom ballasts.


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## Lucky Luke (Mar 26, 2019)

I don't think they will run properly in a HPS/MH ballast due to the difference in waves. In saying that im not tech enough to debate it.

Here is the difference in light from 600w HPS to 630DE CMH.(not a side by side test). Much more penetration.


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## AlaskaRob (Mar 26, 2019)

Serious question renfro:
Would a 1k hps on overdrive be about 1200w, versus a 600w cmh?
I know my mind is one sided when it comes to my cmh light. And I've admitted thst my experience with different lights is very limited.
That being said, it does look like your hps on overdrive is doing a slight bit better than the cmh.....although at 2x the watts?


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## Renfro (Mar 26, 2019)

AlaskaRob said:


> Serious question renfro:
> Would a 1k hps on overdrive be about 1200w, versus a 600w cmh?
> I know my mind is one sided when it comes to my cmh light. And I've admitted thst my experience with different lights is very limited.
> That being said, it does look like your hps on overdrive is doing a slight bit better than the cmh.....although at 2x the watts?


Yes 1200 watts. The HPS is doing better but with twice the watts.



Lucky Luke said:


> I don't think they will run properly in a HPS/MH ballast due to the difference in waves.


The bulb I have was designed to be used in a HPS ballast (high frequency). https://growershouse.com/growers-choice-630w-de-double-ended-cmh-ceramic-mh-lamp-3100k


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## Renfro (Mar 26, 2019)

It is my assumption based on what I have seen so far that a 600 watt CMH can do about what a 1000 watt HPS can do. Yes my HPS is doing better but it's running at 1200 watts. I think if the HPS was at 1000 watts they would be about equal. the HPS bulb does have a couple runs on it though.


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## AlaskaRob (Mar 26, 2019)

Hey renfro, you like coco right? I need help with nutrient profile for after light flip this weekend. If I'm using the Canna a&b, Rhizotonic, Cannazym , and calmag+ for veg cycle this far, what profile do I need for bloom cycle? Just keep on with the same nutes and follow Canna recommendations? Cannaboost is ridiculously expensive for me in Alaska. Something like 78 a liter? 
I picked up flower fuel with ratio 1-34-32, and Humboldt Sticky & Sweet to give it a try. Will those work as add ins? Do I need anything else?


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## AlaskaRob (Mar 26, 2019)

All these pics of plants flowering has me dying to see what mine will look like! Grandaddy Purple is what I have, but the black dog I see so times on here is stunning!


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## Renfro (Mar 26, 2019)

AlaskaRob said:


> Hey renfro, you like coco right? I need help with nutrient profile for after light flip this weekend. If I'm using the Canna a&b, Rhizotonic, Cannazym , and calmag+ for veg cycle this far, what profile do I need for bloom cycle? Just keep on with the same nutes and follow Canna recommendations? Cannaboost is ridiculously expensive for me in Alaska. Something like 78 a liter?
> I picked up flower fuel with ratio 1-34-32, and Humboldt Sticky & Sweet to give it a try. Will those work as add ins? Do I need anything else?


I use peat based mix, Berger BM6 HP.

I have never used Canna nutes so I don't have any idea.

You should look at Jacks 3-2-1, there are some threads on it around here. That stuff is rocking, trying it for the first time. Major cost savings over the GH 3 part that I have been using for years. the Jacks Part A and Part B plus some monopotassium phosphate will cost a lot less, you aren't buying water and food coloring with a fancy label.


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## Lucky Luke (Mar 26, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yes 1200 watts. The HPS is doing better but with twice the watts.
> 
> 
> 
> The bulb I have was designed to be used in a HPS ballast (high frequency). https://growershouse.com/growers-choice-630w-de-double-ended-cmh-ceramic-mh-lamp-3100k


yea, ive heard of them but I thought 1/2 the point of CMH was using square wave ballasts.


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## AlaskaRob (Mar 26, 2019)

I just tucked them back under the scrog today. trying to get the last of the filling in before this weekend. canopy is 4x4 in the 5x5 tent. Canopy scrog is at 28" from the floor. wish they couldve been taller but i will go with what i got this time. been in veg for longer than planned aleady. this weekend will be about 5 1/2 weeks. they should be taller. my own fault as a newb tho. still pretty tho. currently have 35 tops through the scrog that i have to push around everytime i see them. hoping for .75g per watt. id be ok with that for first grow.


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## Renfro (Mar 26, 2019)

Lucky Luke said:


> yea, ive heard of them but I thought 1/2 the point of CMH was using square wave ballasts.


I am also testing some 1kW DE CMH bulbs for a manufacturer (not on the market yet). They run on a 1kW HPS ballast, high frequency.

As far as the square wave, I know some CMH setups are like that, some aren't. I suppose you need to see what the bulb wants??? I am still pretty new to the CMH lighting so I have limited experience to draw on.


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## Lucky Luke (Mar 26, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I am also testing some 1kW DE CMH bulbs for a manufacturer (not on the market yet). They run on a 1kW HPS ballast, high frequency.
> 
> As far as the square wave, I know some CMH setups are like that, some aren't. I suppose you need to see what the bulb wants??? I am still pretty new to the CMH lighting so I have limited experience to draw on.


The good ones are square wave, can normally tell by the Hz and the lamp life rating.


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## Lucky Luke (Mar 26, 2019)

Not from a great source (maximum yield), but worth a quick perusal.

"CMH ballasts use square-wave technology. When you look at the graph on the back of the box your bulb is packaged in, notice the high peaks and low dips. The peaks are an indicator of energy pushing out of the bulb. T

he low dips indicate light trying to travel to the next peak. You can see this with your own eyes when you take photos and videos of your grow room. With most HID lights, you’ll see bands of light on your photos.

The bands of light are the peaks in the graph, and the spaces between them indicate the dips. With square-wave technology, there are fewer dips. A steadier beam of light is produced, which means your plants receive more light over their lives."

https://www.maximumyield.com/your-guide-to-ceramic-metal-halide-grow-lights/2/1462


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## paparov (Apr 1, 2019)

Use google searching "side by side grow. 630 CMH vs 1000 HPS". The first link that appears from another known growing forum will let you know how they compare . I tested a Lumatek CMH 630 DE for a short time. I was pleased with the coverage and intensity. In fact it's a very strong bulb, burned some tops at 60 cm distance. In my experience heat was a little bit more than a 600w HPS.


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## Lucky Luke (Apr 1, 2019)

paparov said:


> Use google searching "side by side grow. 630 CMH vs 1000 HPS". The first link that appears from another known growing forum will let you know how they compare . I tested a Lumatek CMH 630 DE for a short time. I was pleased with the coverage and intensity. In fact it's a very strong bulb, burned some tops at 60 cm distance. In my experience heat was a little bit more than a 600w HPS.


Is that the 315 dual lamp (making 630w) SE Vs the air cooled 1000s on the Pineapple punch (from memory)? If so its a great thread but not a DE and he lost allot of light due to the 1000s running air cooled hoods.
Heat on my 630DE is less than the 600w HPS I had.


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## paparov (Apr 2, 2019)

Lucky Luke said:


> Is that the 315 dual lamp (making 630w) SE Vs the air cooled 1000s on the Pineapple punch (from memory)? If so its a great thread but not a DE and he lost allot of light due to the 1000s running air cooled hoods.
> Heat on my 630DE is less than the 600w HPS I had.


Yeah, that is the thread I was talking about. My bad, thought test was done with DE bulb, not 2x315 CMH. Anecdotally, I replaced 1x600w HPS with a Lumatek DE CMH 630 in a previous grow and temps were a little bit higher after replacement. In this comparison test:https://growace.com/blog/ceramic-metal-halide-light-guide-review/ they found that 2x315 CMH raised temps a little bit higher than a 600w HPS. With this kind of kit they used for the CMH it seems logical to me. Still they did not use a 630 DE CMH so it's a little bit irrelevant to this thread and I apologize .


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## Lucky Luke (Apr 2, 2019)

paparov said:


> Yeah, that is the thread I was talking about. My bad, thought test was done with DE bulb, not 2x315 CMH. Anecdotally, I replaced 1x600w HPS with a Lumatek DE CMH 630 in a previous grow and temps were a little bit higher after replacement. In this comparison test:https://growace.com/blog/ceramic-metal-halide-light-guide-review/ they found that 2x315 CMH raised temps a little bit higher than a 600w HPS. With this kind of kit they used for the CMH it seems logical to me. Still they did not use a 630 DE CMH so it's a little bit irrelevant to this thread and I apologize .


Was your ballast remote or on the fixture? Mines remote so that may be a factor, the HPS ballast was remote as well.

From that link you supplied.
"_One watt_ from a grow light creates *four British Thermal Units (BTUs)* of heat that need to be cooled. So in comparison, one 600w HPS grow light puts off 2,400 BTU ’s whereas one 315 W CMH grow light puts off only *1,260 BTU’s,* which is almost _less than half the HPS light_. "

"*CMH is the best lighting possible for in-home growing.* They’re efficient, run cooler than HPS or Double Ended bulbs, and with all the benefits of the new and long-time growers alike can’t go wrong."


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## paparov (Apr 2, 2019)

Lucky Luke said:


> Was your ballast remote or on the fixture? Mines remote so that may be a factor, the HPS ballast was remote as well.
> 
> From that link you supplied.
> "_One watt_ from a grow light creates *four British Thermal Units (BTUs)* of heat that need to be cooled. So in comparison, one 600w HPS grow light puts off 2,400 BTU ’s whereas one 315 W CMH grow light puts off only *1,260 BTU’s,* which is almost _less than half the HPS light_. "
> ...


Yes, CMH are indeed efficient. I remember reading that they convert ~50%+ of their energy into light while for HPS numbers sit at ~27-30%. Considering BTU, doing the math 630W CMH equals the heat produced by 600w HPS+ a miniscule amount of 120 BTU extra.

*Forgot to add that the ballast was remote.


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## Renfro (Apr 2, 2019)

A recent shot of my 1kW DE HPS next to a 600 DE CMH at day 14 of 12/12



The CMH plant is shorter and not as full of branches as the HPS side.


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## Renfro (Apr 2, 2019)

paparov said:


> Yes, CMH are indeed efficient. I remember reading that they convert ~50%+ of their energy into light while for HPS numbers sit at ~27-30%. Considering BTU, doing the math 630W CMH equals the heat produced by 600w HPS+ a miniscule amount of 120 BTU extra.
> 
> *Forgot to add that the ballast was remote.


A HPS light will have a higher BTU per watt compared to CMH. You can't do the 3.41 watts per BTU math. HPS puts out more than 3.41 BTU/watt. Common numbers used by the industry for a 1kW HPS is 4500 (SE) to 6000 (DE) BTU/hr.

The CMH also doesn't put out as much infrared as the CMH.

Watt for watt a CMH is definitely cooler.


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## AlaskaRob (Apr 5, 2019)

Renfro said:


> A recent shot of my 1kW DE HPS next to a 600 DE CMH at day 14 of 12/12
> 
> View attachment 4310840
> 
> The CMH plant is shorter and not as full of branches as the HPS side.


But I bet the stalks of the cmh lighted planets were thicker?


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## Lucky Luke (Apr 5, 2019)

Renfro said:


> A recent shot of my 1kW DE HPS next to a 600 DE CMH at day 14 of 12/12
> 
> View attachment 4310840
> 
> The CMH plant is shorter and not as full of branches as the HPS side.


Are you running a square wave ballast or just the CMH lamp? (I know someone is and just wanted to clarify)


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## Renfro (Apr 5, 2019)

AlaskaRob said:


> But I bet the stalks of the cmh lighted planets were thicker?


No not the case, actually about the same. Less stalks too, not as full of a bush.



Lucky Luke said:


> Are you running a square wave ballast or just the CMH lamp? (I know someone is and just wanted to clarify)


This lamp is designed for use with a HPS ballast:

https://growershouse.com/growers-choice-630w-de-double-ended-cmh-ceramic-mh-lamp-3k-r-red-enhanced

Please don't go on another long winded spiel about wave forms... lol I know you are big on square wave, this is a different bulb that is intended for high frequency HPS ballasts. _"Use with a 1000w high frequency digital ballast dimmed down to 600w." _


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## Lucky Luke (Apr 5, 2019)

Renfro said:


> No not the case, actually about the same. Less stalks too, not as full of a bush.
> 
> 
> This lamp is designed for use with a HPS ballast:
> ...


Didn't know I did..but its good to clarify as most people would just assume you were running a full CMH setup.
Edit: But you did on the first page....my bad.


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## Renfro (Apr 5, 2019)

Lucky Luke said:


> Edit: But you did on the first page....my bad.


lol your good.


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## blazeaglory420 (Jun 16, 2019)

Cool. I was actually thinking about doing this but in reality isnt the CMH running at only 600w instead of the 630w? Still Id like to try it.


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## Renfro (Jun 17, 2019)

blazeaglory420 said:


> Cool. I was actually thinking about doing this but in reality isnt the CMH running at only 600w instead of the 630w? Still Id like to try it.


Yes it runs at 600.

@GoBrah makes DE 1kW CMH bulbs that you can run on a DE HPS ballast set to 1000 watts.


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## ozziebud (Jun 17, 2019)

how ya goin renfro what did you think of the 1000w de cmh bulb you were testing i got a 6k 1000de mh bulb i ended up tacoing the leaves think i turned it up to soon so went back to phillps bulb


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## Renfro (Jun 17, 2019)

ozziebud said:


> how ya goin renfro what did you think of the 1000w de cmh bulb you were testing i got a 6k 1000de mh bulb i ended up tacoing the leaves think i turned it up to soon so went back to phillps bulb


Well I noticed the buds under that light foxtailed like crazy since I couldn't dim it for the last few weeks. The buds weren't as dense, about a 35% loss in weight weight on similar size nugs. The stems were weaker and very hollow. I was using the 3k. I was running DE Hortilux in the other fixtures and got epic harvest results. The CMH buds were very frosty just not as dense.

Maybe I am just dialed in for the HPS, I dunno. All the same strain.


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## ozziebud (Jun 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Well I noticed the buds under that light foxtailed like crazy since I couldn't dim it for the last few weeks. The buds weren't as dense, about a 35% loss in weight weight on similar size nugs. The stems were weaker and very hollow. I was using the 3k. I was running DE Hortilux in the other fixtures and got epic harvest results. The CMH buds were very frosty just not as dense.
> 
> Maybe I am just dialed in for the HPS, I dunno. All the same strain.


thanks for reply i used to run 10 400s over 2 sometimes 3 plants just gone to hi par 1000w de with control panel just wondering will 2 light cover a 5x12 frame or should i go 3 lights and run end to end or should i have light overlapping thanks sorry for butting in on ya thread to


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## Renfro (Jun 17, 2019)

Well I want 50-60 watts per sq ft of HPS. Is that what you will be running, HPS?

You can run less watts per sqft in veg.


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## ozziebud (Jun 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Well I want 50-60 watts per sq ft of HPS. Is that what you will be running, HPS?
> 
> You can run less watts per sqft in veg.


yeah de hps so if i worked it out right i have 50 watts per square foot does that sound right 12 feet by 5 frame 3 1000s i have just under 8 feet ceilings


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## Renfro (Jun 17, 2019)

The wattage per sqft works, just gotta make sure the plants don't get too tall.


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## ozziebud (Jun 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> The wattage per sqft works, just gotta make sure the plants don't get too tall.


cool was a bit worried might have done wrong thing going these 1000 de this pic is max height i usually go then im left with 3 to 3 and half feet to lights will that be enough hight last one in this room building new one at the moment with 10 foot ceilings


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## welshsmoker (Jun 17, 2019)

I am currently running a 315 and 2 dutch lighting 1000w De. Just the difference with a 315 in the middle is unbelievable, and getting no stretch to notice and pulling about 8.5 per plant on a ten week cycle. Am thinking off upgrading to a 630 next. Highly recommended.


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## AlaskaRob (Jun 17, 2019)

welshsmoker said:


> I am currently running a 315 and 2 dutch lighting 1000w De. Just the difference with a 315 in the middle is unbelievable, and getting no stretch to notice and pulling about 8.5 per plant on a ten week cycle. Am thinking off upgrading to a 630 next. Highly recommended.


My 630 dual bulb cmh works great using one 315w bulb, or both 315w bulbs in the same hood. Leaves a hot spot, but if you cut the corners and spread hood open to more of a glowing shape it works really well. I've been looking for a better option but ha ing hard time finding a dual bulb wide hood.


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## welshsmoker (Jun 17, 2019)

HI alaska, I move my plants one place per day, no hotspots at all, and they are in 40Lt pots and maximum 2 foot when finished. Just using a cheap dutch wing reflector. Don't get that problem.


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## welshsmoker (Jun 17, 2019)

I should say mind that my lights are never lowered, they are at maximum height from the start.


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## AlaskaRob (Jun 17, 2019)

When I opened my hood up the hot spit went away pretty fast. Within half hour I was able to lower light 4 more inches and regroup the plants. 
Great light, and pulled just shy of a pound for first grow. Such a learning curve tho. Suprised I did as well as I did with all the issues I had from heat or humidity buildup in the tent.


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## GoBrah (Jun 18, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Well I noticed the buds under that light foxtailed like crazy since I couldn't dim it for the last few weeks. The buds weren't as dense, about a 35% loss in weight weight on similar size nugs. The stems were weaker and very hollow. I was using the 3k. I was running DE Hortilux in the other fixtures and got epic harvest results. The CMH buds were very frosty just not as dense.
> 
> Maybe I am just dialed in for the HPS, I dunno. All the same strain.


I think you can dim down when fired it up at 1000W setting first. 
About the stem, maybe you can share the photo here if here is anyone came through the same senario and know the remedy. 
I suppose it means when in same weight CMH gives more flavor?


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## Lucky Luke (Jun 18, 2019)

Might be the globes. Myself and most people seem to report denser buds from the CMH over HPS. The comparison grow that I think was posted on here was the same, the HPS side looked like it had more flower and more weight but when it came down to harvest and numbers the CMH was weightier.

Edit: Looks like it was never linked, If anyone is interested its a good read. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352859
"I'm 100% sold on the CMH. I'm converting my room to all 630s is now. It beat the 1000s hands down.. in all aspects. I was getting 9.5 and 9 oz and 8.5 oz plants on the regular with the cmh. The biggest plant trimmed in the hps was an even 8 ounces.. "


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## blazeaglory420 (Jun 19, 2019)

You know, it just kills me because I already bought 2 damned 60w HPS bulbs and a ballast/light but Im going to switch to that CMH bulb that can run on a reular digital ballast.


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## Renfro (Jun 19, 2019)

blazeaglory420 said:


> You know, it just kills me because I already bought 2 damned 60w HPS bulbs and a ballast/light but Im going to switch to that CMH bulb that can run on a reular digital ballast.


What ballast do you have?


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## blazeaglory420 (Jun 19, 2019)

Renfro said:


> What ballast do you have?


I just bought one of the 630w CMH and put all my new HPS on ebay lol Really hoping it runs cooler than my 600w HPS

Heres my ballast 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072C2SGJ5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Renfro (Jun 19, 2019)

blazeaglory420 said:


> I just bought one of the 630w CMH and put all my new HPS on ebay lol Really hoping it runs cooler than my 600w HPS
> 
> Heres my ballast
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072C2SGJ5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


That bulb was specific on a few ballasts it won't work with and I know it ran on my Sun System 1kW HPS ballast set to 60%. So you may wanna keep your HPS bulbs until you know the CMH bulb will get along with your ballast.

This is the bulb you are talking about right? https://growershouse.com/growers-choice-630w-de-double-ended-cmh-ceramic-mh-lamp-3k-r-red-enhanced


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## blazeaglory420 (Jun 19, 2019)

Renfro said:


> That bulb was specific on a few ballasts it won't work with and I know it ran on my Sun System 1kW HPS ballast set to 60%. So you may wanna keep your HPS bulbs until you know the CMH bulb will get along with your ballast.
> 
> This is the bulb you are talking about right? https://growershouse.com/growers-choice-630w-de-double-ended-cmh-ceramic-mh-lamp-3k-r-red-enhanced


Yeah. It should work with mine, its not a Gavita 750. Its a 600/660 - 1000/1150. Also, the bulb requires at least a 342v circuit voltage, where mime puts out 400 minimum. So fingers crossed it should be ok. I still have time, so now worries. I also have a spare bulb set aside.

I just have to see for myself how great these CMH truly are


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## blazeaglory420 (Jun 19, 2019)

What anyone think about running this 630w at 660w?


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## Renfro (Jun 19, 2019)

It could shorten the bulb life but otherwise I would imagine it would work. There is a chance it would just fry the bulb pretty quickly but there is only one way to find out.


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## blazeaglory420 (Jun 19, 2019)

Renfro said:


> It could shorten the bulb life but otherwise I would imagine it would work. There is a chance it would just fry the bulb pretty quickly but there is only one way to find out.


Shrapnel bomb? haha Is 5% over its stated wattage allot? I have no clue, so I probably wont try it considering the bulb cost over 100$


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## Lucky Luke (Jun 19, 2019)

blazeaglory420 said:


> I just have to see for myself how great these CMH truly are


Then buy a proper CMH ballast...?


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## blazeaglory420 (Jun 19, 2019)

Lucky Luke said:


> Then buy a proper CMH ballast...?


Is that a question? Or are you trying to say that, for some reason, this ballast isnt good enough or wont work? And why would I buy a "proper" CMH ballast when Im buying a CMH bulb that isnt made for proper CMH ballast? The ballast I have now can run multiple bulb types, so why invest 100$-200$ on another ballast that only runs CMH, when I can get this CMH bulb and still have the option to run any other bulb I want?

Do you have any experience with this bulb or other CMH bulbs made to work with high frequency ballasts? If so, please enlighten everyone

If Im not satisfied with the results of this setup, maybe I will get a CMH ballast, maybe I wont, but can you at least give some reasoning.


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## Apalchen (Jun 19, 2019)

Growers choice originally made square wave ballast to run those bulbs. They quit making the complete cmh square wave fixtures because they were getting too many returns cause a certain number of the ballast wouldn't fire out the box. I have a growers choice square wave stand alone ballast I got off Amazon. (Bought to replace some Alibaba square wave ballast that crapped out pretty quick- but honestly the Chinese bulbs lasted longer then the GC ones).
The reason you want square wave is because it optimizes the spectrum and longevity of the bulbs. My 600 watt cheapo hps ballast wouldn't run the bulbs. I've seen other people that did have hps ballast that did run them but at least one guy said when he switched to square wave it was noticeably better.

I dunno what your trying to accomplish maybe I missed part of the thread but I can say that I did air cool my 630 with acde hoods and I didn't see much if any improvement in yield from the 600 hps. In fact I originally bought them because it was summer and I needed to cut wattage and I bought into the hype that they are as good as a 1000 w hps. So I hung two in a 4x8 tent and it didn't do any better than 2 600 hps as far as weight. Quality might be a bit better but not that much. I will tell you that two 315s (there was no glass hood so maybe that helped) completely smash my double ended 630 as far as quality and yield.

In my opinion the Phillips 3100k bulbs on a square wave ballast put out the absolute best spectrum available and for only 315 watts yield damn good.


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## Lucky Luke (Jun 19, 2019)

blazeaglory420 said:


> Is that a question? Or are you trying to say that, for some reason, this ballast isnt good enough or wont work? And why would I buy a "proper" CMH ballast


Because CMH is more than about the lamp.
If you want to give CMH a real try then you need the ballast that is made for the lamp. Its like buying a $300 shirt and then putting over it a $25 jacket. Sure you look good but the result could of been allot better.
I recon these cross over lamps may be a good thing and then again they may not work as well as expected but its not the same as running the full setup. It cannot be as your not running a low freq ballast.

My expericance is with MH/HPS just 600watters, some home made LED, CFL (I still like my 130w CFL..haha) and a 630w DE CMH (proper one). Hence why the tittle of this thread has me interested. I'm running one.


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## blazeaglory420 (Jun 19, 2019)

Lucky Luke said:


> Because CMH is more than about the lamp.
> If you want to give CMH a real try then you need the ballast that is made for the lamp. Its like buying a $300 shirt and then putting over it a $25 jacket. Sure you look good but the result could of been allot better.
> I recon these cross over lamps may be a good thing and then again they may not work as well as expected but its not the same as running the full setup. It cannot be as your not running a low freq ballast.
> 
> My expericance is with MH/HPS just 600watters, some home made LED, CFL (I still like my 130w CFL..haha) and a 630w DE CMH (proper one). Hence why the tittle of this thread has me interested. I'm running one.


I get what you're saying but this CMH isn't a normal bulb. It's designed to be run on a high freq ballast, so for this CMH bulb, a high frequency ballast IS the proper ballast.

If it doesn't work as good as my HPS, then ill know and can put my mind to rest.

Side question, not many cooling options for these huh? The few closed hoods seem to have the intake and exhaust openings blowing air directly passed the bulb, which I thought wasn't good? I've read too much cooling could degrade the light output? I would run open but thee bulb isn't double jacketed, so there's a small chance it could explode at the moment I'm admiring my fat buds. I really hate to have glass in my hood to be honest

The best hood I've found (other than the 300$ Hydrofarm) is this one in link below, which seems to have the bulb a little higher up in the unit and the air flows just under, instead of directly passed the bulb. What do you all think?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/112214558829


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## Lucky Luke (Jun 20, 2019)

blazeaglory420 said:


> I get what you're saying but this CMH isn't a normal bulb. It's designed to be run on a high freq ballast, so for this CMH bulb, a high frequency ballast IS the proper ballast.
> 
> If it doesn't work as good as my HPS, then ill know and can put my mind to rest.


Yes the lamp has been designed to work on a HPS Ballast but the Ballast is not designed to run a CMH lamp efficiently.

Its a nice experiment that You and Renfro are doing (and Renfro is a nice grower) but its a hard ask wanting to make a HPS Ballast run anything better than a HPS. And it so far shows that that's the case. This is the first thread I've seen on running these lamps so its interesting the differences that we are seeing. Good square wave ballasts are expensive so I could see a huge market if they could get a CMH lamp to run nearly as good on a Hi Freq ballast


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## Lucky Luke (Jun 20, 2019)

blazeaglory420 said:


> Side question, not many cooling options for these huh? The few closed hoods seem to have the intake and exhaust openings blowing air directly passed the bulb, which I thought wasn't good? I've read too much cooling could degrade the light output? I would run open but thee bulb isn't double jacketed, so there's a small chance it could explode at the moment I'm admiring my fat buds. I really hate to have glass in my hood to be honest
> 
> The best hood I've found (other than the 300$ Hydrofarm) is this one in link below, which seems to have the bulb a little higher up in the unit and the air flows just under, instead of directly passed the bulb. What do you all think?
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/112214558829


I dont belive there are many cooling options. I dont have to use my enclosed hood anymore as its now cooler than my SE600W.
The older lamps used a removable jacket the new lamps have it inbuilt so if it explodes it wont get all in the grow or start a fire (hopefully).
Hi-par do a range of quality hoods and do a couple of enclosed hoods. https://www.hi-par-horticulture.com/products
This one is pretty cool, runs a CMH and a HPS in the one hood. https://www.hi-par-horticulture.com/duo-cmh-hps-reflector


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## GoBrah (Jun 20, 2019)

Lucky Luke said:


> I dont belive there are many cooling options. I dont have to use my enclosed hood anymore as its now cooler than my SE600W.
> The older lamps used a removable jacket the new lamps have it inbuilt so if it explodes it wont get all in the grow or start a fire (hopefully).
> Hi-par do a range of quality hoods and do a couple of enclosed hoods. https://www.hi-par-horticulture.com/products
> This one is pretty cool, runs a CMH and a HPS in the one hood. https://www.hi-par-horticulture.com/duo-cmh-hps-reflector


i was think about runs a CMH and HPS in the one hood with 1 ballast. like drive a 400WCMH and a 600W HPS with a 1000W ballast


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## blazeaglory420 (Jun 20, 2019)

Lucky Luke said:


> Yes the lamp has been designed to work on a HPS Ballast but the Ballast is not designed to run a CMH lamp efficiently.
> 
> Its a nice experiment that You and Renfro are doing (and Renfro is a nice grower) but its a hard ask wanting to make a HPS Ballast run anything better than a HPS. And it so far shows that that's the case. This is the first thread I've seen on running these lamps so its interesting the differences that we are seeing. Good square wave ballasts are expensive so I could see a huge market if they could get a CMH lamp to run nearly as good on a Hi Freq ballast


Well we'll see. If I can keep my temps down, I might just stick with my 600w HPS and sell the CMH bulb, so keep an eye out for a cheap CMH that can supposedly run in a high freq ballast haha

Really, I'm happy with HPS results by far. I've had buds longer and thicker than Pringles cans and round as 2 liter bottle with HPS, so not really needing a change other than for lower heat. 

I buy things I think I need, then realize after trying to make them work in my area, that I really needed something different. For instance, I bought a nice 2'x2'x53" grow tent. Its made fairly well although a little on the thin side but no light leaks. I didn't think I could fit anything longer in my closet. Well I can, so now I'm getting a 3'x 2'x53" tent, or another "2 in 1" style . Anyways, point I'm getting at is, not everything I find fits in how I expected, so I'll be reselling a brand new grow tent, never used, and possibly a 630w CMH bulb. I've currently got slightly used 240v Gavita type ballast up on eBay, no hood, ballast and 1000w bulb only. Check back for the grow tent soon, with box and everything. Only opened to setup and verify function. 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/183853251641


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## blazeaglory420 (Jun 20, 2019)

F*ck, this entire thing has me stressed out. If we could cool these DE bulbs with forced air things would be so much easier.

At this point, I'm going to run it in an open hood designed to allow the heat to escape the sides and rise. I'll try putting the ducting end or inline filter right on top of the hood (or close enough) and see how it drops temps, if any. Fingers crossed it doesn't explode. If it does, ill be running the 12/12 from 6pm to 6am, so ill be home just in case. If successful, ill change out the bulb for a DE HPS and see if anything changes in yield or quality

Anyways, didn't mean to thread jack, I'm just "venting" so to speak


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## digging (Jun 20, 2019)

What heights off the canopy are people running their 630 watt DE cmh lights ?


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## AlaskaRob (Jun 21, 2019)

welshsmoker said:


> HI alaska, I move my plants one place per day, no hotspots at all, and they are in 40Lt pots and maximum 2 foot when finished. Just using a cheap dutch wing reflector. Don't get that problem.


My plants were about 5' tall and height space started to become a problem.


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## AlaskaRob (Jun 21, 2019)

digging said:


> What heights off the canopy are people running their 630 watt DE cmh lights ?


I ran mine 24-30 inches above the canopy. Hardest part was the hot spot the hood created so I had to keep them around 28 inches above until I cut the side seams out of frustration and opened it up to look like a gull wing cheap reflector. It got rid of the hotspot fast and I was able to lower the light to 24 inches from the canopy. Would've done better with 4 plants, but I pushed it too far with 6. Ended up with 2 plants with spindly stems that couldn't support the weight of the buds, and I had to tie everything on those 2 up to the ceiling. 
But, for my first grow to pull nearly a pound from a 630w and it is fairly impressive buds.....im very happy.


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## Apalchen (Jun 21, 2019)

The acde hood is about the best air cooled de hood I've seen but it's pricey. I have some knock offs that I got at a grow store that are built like the acde but I've yet to see them for sale on line anywhere. They were about half the price of the acde but Im not sure if they spread the light as well as I've heard those acde have same spread has the blockbuster hoods which is one the better hoods. 

Here is a link to the square wave cmh ballast I got and it works goods, regardless of what growers choice says they originally made these bulbs for square wave fixtures the problem was they were getting too many returns because some of the complete fixtures wouldn't fire new out of the box. As far as I know this ballast doesn't have that issue and mine has been fine for over a year. 

https://www.amazon.com/Growers-Horticultural-Lighting-Ceramic-Ballast/dp/B073PNRKFC/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=growers+choice+630+ballast&qid=1561144452&s=gateway&sr=8-3


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## Apalchen (Jun 21, 2019)

Also if they are cooler than hps it's not much at least not in air cooled hoods. At least it didn't seem that way the back of my hand def felt warmer under the de 630 than the se 600s. And plants burned easier under it, that could be because like I said they werent real name brand acde hoods just a knock off with the same design as far as air not hitting the bulb.


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## blazeaglory420 (Jun 21, 2019)

Found this compact air cooled hood. Correct type of cooling too!

Currently, ill be running this roughly 2 to 3 feet above the plants .

LuxHydro Raftertech Air Cooled DE Reflector

25"x14"x9"

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D2894GM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_llCdDb1PX2VBG


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## AlaskaRob (Jun 22, 2019)




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## AlaskaRob (Jun 22, 2019)

That's the light I have. It works great, and I can use one or both 315w bulbs with this. The hot spot under the focused hood was easily fixed by cutting the weekend spreading the hood open. I didn't realize until near the end of my first run that the ballast can be disconnected from the hood and run remotely! I'm doing that for next run. Damn I learned so much so quickly! Next run is going to be amazing


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## AlaskaRob (Jun 22, 2019)

Ozzie found this hood for me and it's exactly what I'm looking for. Wide spread coverage and not tall.
https://stealth-garden.com/collections/reflectors/products/hi-par-closed-wide-reflector-attachment


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## Lucky Luke (Jun 22, 2019)

AlaskaRob said:


> Ozzie found this hood for me and it's exactly what I'm looking for. Wide spread coverage and not tall.
> https://stealth-garden.com/collections/reflectors/products/hi-par-closed-wide-reflector-attachment


Hi -par are quality.


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## blazeaglory420 (Jun 22, 2019)

Pics be back!


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## Renfro (Jun 23, 2019)

Are the DE CMH bulbs like the DE HPS bulbs when it comes to air cooling? Something about it cooling the arc and changing the spectrum?


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## blazeaglory420 (Jun 23, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Are the DE CMH bulbs like the DE HPS bulbs when it comes to air cooling? Something about it cooling the arc and changing the spectrum?


Yeah. They need to be at a certain temp to run properly, hence the special air cooled reflector that acts more like a heatsink, pulling air over the top of the hood, as opposed to across the bulb itself


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## Renfro (Jun 23, 2019)

GoBrah said:


> i was think about runs a CMH and HPS in the one hood with 1 ballast. like drive a 400WCMH and a 600W HPS with a 1000W ballast


Tell me more about this idea? Is it something you guys are making? Would it work? Would the two spectrums blend well or be sorta half and half?


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## GoBrah (Jun 23, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Tell me more about this idea? Is it something you guys are making? Would it work? Would the two spectrums blend well or be sorta half and half?


the CMH400WSE samples will be ready in a week, we will see how it performs. I think you can hang this CMH400W vertically between rows. About the blended spectrum there are two ways 1. changing the CMH spectrum (in progress) 2. mix two lights in one fixture, some brands have done this, but we will try to use one ballast instead of two, i was told this could be done. will contact ballast maker to see if they are willing to push forward.


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## Renfro (Jun 23, 2019)

GoBrah said:


> the CMH400WSE samples will be ready in a week, we will see how it performs. I think you can hang this CMH400W vertically between rows. About the blended spectrum there are two ways 1. changing the CMH spectrum (in progress) 2. mix two lights in one fixture, some brands have done this, but we will try to use one ballast instead of two, i was told this could be done. will contact ballast maker to see if they are willing to push forward.


I would be very interested in trying some of the cmh400wse bulbs, I have 6 lights in each room that can run that provided the bulb will operate in a base up position.

I set that light I am running the cmh1000wde in to 750 watts and it did strike an arc the next day.


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## GoBrah (Jun 23, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I would be very interested in trying some of the cmh400wse bulbs, I have 6 lights in each room that can run that provided the bulb will operate in a base up position.
> 
> I set that light I am running the cmh1000wde in to 750 watts and it did strike an arc the next day.


what ballast you have for those 400Ws?


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## wood780 (Jun 25, 2019)

I'm running a 630 and love it so far I'm about 3 weeks into flower and running outta space in my 4x4


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## blazeaglory420 (Jul 2, 2019)

Hopefully running soon!


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## ChronicalClouds (Sep 10, 2020)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/122883788426 this is the one I was going to get but someone on marijuana passion said that they have theirs on the shelf cause it gets to hot for a tent it comes with ventilation would that still get to hot

any opinions on this light my buddy was buying it tomorrow so all we would need is hempy bucket supplies and nutes


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## OneHitDone (Sep 10, 2020)

I believe the consensus is that dual arc 630 cmh is subpar to 2 Philips 315's.
As for heat - people have been running 600W HPS and Even 1000's when air cooled in tents for years


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## Apalchen (Sep 10, 2020)

ChronicalClouds said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/122883788426 this is the one I was going to get but someone on marijuana passion said that they have theirs on the shelf cause it gets to hot for a tent it comes with ventilation would that still get to hot
> 
> any opinions on this light my buddy was buying it tomorrow so all we would need is hempy bucket supplies and nutes


I ran an air cooled de 630 in a tent but it had 8 ft ceilings. It was at same height as hps 600. I didn't care for it, it's in my garage gathering dust. I love 315 cmh with the Phillips bulbs, so I'd use 2 of those over the de 630 or even a dual bulb 630 as I'd like the bulbs to be further apart. But I've never air cooled the 315 cmh. 

It would be comparable to a 600 hps maybe even a little better but the bulbs haven't been reliable for me. The Chinese bulbs actually lasted longer than the growers choice ones. But could have just been bad luck. If I had to choose between the two I'd pick the hps 600, the old hortilux bulbs are super reliable.


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## farmingfisherman (Sep 10, 2020)

Has anyone ever used the sun system Beast? I saw one for sale used on CL not to long ago. For those that don't google its I think a DE 1000 with two 315 cmh one on each side. Looks hella beastly.


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## Apalchen (Sep 10, 2020)

farmingfisherman said:


> Has anyone ever used the sun system Beast? I saw one for sale used on CL not to long ago. For those that don't google its I think a DE 1000 with two 315 cmh one on each side. Looks hella beastly.


Never used it but gonna be a lot of heat. I don't think the de 1k ballast is built in I think it's seperate so maybe a 600/750 de ballast and bulb.


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## farmingfisherman (Sep 10, 2020)

Apalchen said:


> Never used it but gonna be a lot of heat. I don't think the de 1k ballast is built in I think it's seperate so maybe a 600/750 de ballast and bulb.


Yeah the 1000 the ballast needs to be remote but the 315's have ballasts in the light.


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## Lucky Luke (Sep 11, 2020)

630


OneHitDone said:


> I believe the consensus is that dual arc 630 cmh is subpar to 2 Philips 315's.
> As for heat - people have been running 600W HPS and Even 1000's when air cooled in tents for years


630WDE with a rail or two 315s.


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## Lucky Luke (Sep 11, 2020)

farmingfisherman said:


> Yeah the 1000 the ballast needs to be remote but the 315's have ballasts in the light.


can get remote ballasts with most CMH manufacturers


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## JDDank (Oct 5, 2020)

G’day I’ve been using 630 cmh for 2yrs x2in a 2.5x3mtr area. With philips 21k de bulbs I love em. 3.5 pound average.


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