# Trichomes, cloudy=good, amber=shit



## krok (Jan 18, 2011)

I'm trying to harvest an Indica plant (N.L.) at the correct time, I want a couchlock/narcotic high that can put me to sleep.

I'm starting to believe that harvesting at peak THC (cloudy) is what will give the best effect, and that this will give couch-lock effect if it's an Indica. So no need to wait for 50% amber before harvest. Correct?

I expect a lot of the cloudy ones to turn amber during curing, and that amber (when harvested) will turn into "shit" (overripe) during the cure.


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## socaliboy (Jan 18, 2011)

The longer you leave it the stonier the effect, if you harvest it too early it will be more "uplifting".


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## resinousflowers (Jan 18, 2011)

just harvest when the flowers are ripe.and then youll get the full affect the strain is supposed to give you.if you want a narcotic feeling then you should grow a strain that'll give you that.


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## suTraGrow (Jan 18, 2011)

I think your just being impatience trust me the extra wait always pays off have patience


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## McFonz (Jan 18, 2011)

For a couchlock effect you want 40-50% amber trichs at harvest time with most strains.


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## Brick Top (Jan 18, 2011)

CBD is what gives a true body stone, a true couch-lock stone. Since CBD has almost been totally bred out of modern strains smokers who like couch-lock have had to resort to giving up THC, throwing away THC, intentionally allowing the level of THC to drop as it oxidizes and become CBN so they can get a fake body stone from it, a false couch-lock stone from it. That is what amber trichomes actually mean. Amber is a sign of oxidized THC, THC that has been lost and transformed into a substance that is only mildly psychoactive. 

Most couch-lock lovers refuse to accept and believe that fact, but nonetheless, it is a fact. 



CANNABIDIOL (CBD)









Cannabidiol is nonpsychoactive and was initially thought to have no effect on the psycho activity of THC. Recent evidence however show that smokers of cannabis are less likely to experience schizophrenia-like symptoms if there is a higher CBD to THC ratio. Experiments show that participants experienced less intense psychotic effects when intravenous THC was co-administered with CBD. It has been hypothesized that CBD acts as an allosteric antagonist at the CB1 receptor and thus alters the psychoactive effects of THC, resulting in a more easily manageable high.

CBD is generally considered to have more medicinal properties than THC. It appears to relieve convulsion, inflammation (and thereby also migraines), anxiety and nausea. That is why strains with a high concentration of CBD is suitable for medicinal use.

Although CBD has its own particular medicinal value it is not more important than THC when it comes to treating various afflictions. It is the interaction between the two that gives rise to the effect that sometimes alleviates the symptoms of various medical conditions. 

*CBD has a greater affinity for the CB2 receptor than for the CB1 receptor, meaning that its effect is mostly in the body* and not so much in the head. CBD shares a precursor with THC and is the main cannabinoid in low-THC cannabis strains like hemp.

Landrace strains, usually of indica heritage, contain higher concentrations of CBD than recreational drug strains, which are usually bred towards a higher concentration of THC. This is the reason why strains containing high ratios of CBD can be difficult to find.



TETRAHYDROCANNABINOL (THC)









Tetrahydrocannabinol, also known as delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (&#916;9-THC), is the primary psychoactive component found in the cannabis plant. It was first isolated by Raphael Mechoulam, Yechiel Gaoni, and Habib Edery from the Weizmann Institute of Science in Rehovot, Israel, in 1964.








This is the main compound that gives rise to the high that is tightly linked with the cannabis plant. It affects several areas of the brain simultaneously and can therefore give rise to an assortment of experiences, ranging from altered perception of time and the self, to feelings of euphoria and relaxation all through the body.


Medically, it appears to be analgetic, meaning that it is capable of alleviating even severe pain. It is also known to be neuroprotective, which rules out the possibility of brain damage, which was initially proposed to follow from heavy use of the plant. It has approximately equal affinity for the CB1 and CB2 receptors. By binding to CB1 receptors (the ones in brain) it produces the high that we are so familiar with. That is why the effects of THC is more cerebral, than the effect of CBD, which seems to have a greater affinity for the CB2 receptor.

CANNABINOL (CBN)








*Cannabinol is the primary degradation product of THC and increases in concentration with plant age. The concentration of this product in the bud is heavily dependent on the time of harvest. Harvesting the bud at a late stage also means that the concentration of CBN in relation to THC will be higher when compared to the peak of THC production.*

*CBN content increases as THC degrades. It is only mildly psychoactive and can cause "fuzzy head", drowsiness, disorientation and sleepiness in the smoker, properties that can be considered unpleasant in nature compared to the clear high of the THC. Its affinity to the CB2 receptors is higher than for the CB1 receptor, meaning that it mostly affects the body. *

THC BIOSYNTHESIS


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## krok (Jan 18, 2011)

@Brick Top:
Finally, somebody with a brain 
+rep

Let the "50% amber at HARVEST"-people smoke their oxidized THC.
I'll have to search for strains with more CBD.


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## cmt1984 (Jan 18, 2011)

thanks bricktop, that was a good read.

ive harvested at 30% amber like most people say but i didnt like the high as much. i get best results when most trichs are cloudy, i harvest as soon as i see a couple amber.


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## 925Grow'N (Jan 18, 2011)

+rep Brick Top! I've read and learned so much from your post. Much appreciated! I dedicate some of my great 1st grow to your info!


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## Brick Top (Jan 19, 2011)

925Grow'N said:


> +rep Brick Top! I've read and learned so much from your post. Much appreciated! *I dedicate some of my great 1st grow to your info*!



Goodie gumdrops .... but if you want to make me happy name your first, or next, kid after me. 

Wouldn't it be fun to have a little Brick Top of your own around the house?


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## Purplekrunchie (Jan 19, 2011)

cmt1984 said:


> thanks bricktop, that was a good read.
> 
> ive harvested at 30% amber like most people say but i didnt like the high as much. i get best results when most trichs are cloudy, i harvest as soon as i see a couple amber.


I think slightly early harvested smoke is extremely potent and valuable, but most indoor growers try and balance potency and yield. That requires it to be left a bit longer, in most cases. I actually never look at my trichs, I look at the swell, once they do that, I know it's at peak potency, and flavor. But I grow for myself and not selling purposes, so I become the number one customer, and the customer is always right.


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## Brick Top (Jan 19, 2011)

Purplekrunchie said:


> *I think slightly early harvested *smoke is extremely potent and valuable,


It is not a case of harvesting early, not even slightly early. It is a case of harvesting when the glandular trichomes will have reached peak levels of THC, so it is harvesting when a plant will be at it's highest potency. 





> but most indoor growers try and balance potency and yield. That requires it to be left a bit longer, in most cases.



I think the proper word to you e would have been some rather than; "most" unless you are talking about commercial growers. People I know grow and harvest for potency more than yield. Of course they want enough to keep them supplied but they do that by growing enough plants to cover their needs rather than giving up potency to try to squeeze a few more grams of weaker weed out of each plant. 





> I actually never look at my trichs, I look at the swell, once they do that, I know it's at peak potency, and flavor. But I grow for myself and not selling purposes, so I become the number one customer, and the customer is always right.


Whatever floats your boat .... and if that is slightly more weaker herb than slightly less more potent herb then by all means it is the right thing for you too do. 

But look at it this way. If it takes someone 5 or 6 hits, or maybe more, to get the buzz they want rather than just 2 or 3 hits, even though they may have a slightly larger yield they still may smoke it all up as fast or even faster by needing to smoke more of it at a time and to smoke it more often than if they had more potent pot. If that ends up being the case then where is the actual gain in the slightly increased yield at the cost of potency?

It sort of reminds me of my early days of toking, back before weighed ounces and dealers sold "lids." A lie of average grade Mexican would cost $10.00 to $15.00. A lid of good Colombian would cost $25.00 to $30.00. One of my friends LOVED to smoke. He loved the actual act of smoking. He did not like really good pot because he wouldn't want to smoke as often and he would rather sit around all day sucking on his bong than to just get high a few times. So he would buy the average grade Mexican and smoke and smoke and smoke and smoke. He would get high enough because in those days average grade Mexican was not the same garbage as came along some years later but the average grade was not so great that he would reach a point where he would say no mas, no mas. He used to tell us how we were wasting our money spending more on good Colombian because he was getting good and high off his less expensive Mexican .... but he would go through enough pot that in a given month he would spend as much or more for pot that even though he smoked it all day it didn't get him as high as toking better quality pot just a few times a day. My lids would last and last and last and I was almost always high in those days.

Even though the real reason he did it was because he just loved the physical act of smoking it is still an example, admittedly an extreme one, of lesser quality herb not lasting as long as higher potency pot.

I have had pot that was a true one hit wonder, the type of potency where if you did two hits, a little while after the second hit you would be thinking, man, I really didn't need that second hit, I think I'm going to go to bed and try to go to sleep because I'm too high. It doesn't take a large yield with potency like that to last a very long time. True it is not always easy to achieve that, but the principal remains the same. Higher potency means you smoke less at a time and you smoke less often so it lasts a very long time.

Isn't that what every grower, other than a commercial grower, should be trying their best to achieve? 

What would be the logic behind picking a strain that has a very high THC percentage and then intentionally throwing away, intentionally giving up some of the potency so in the end you just have slightly more of what would be equal to the quality/potency of lesser genetics? Maybe to some the logic is with a high enough level of THC they can afford to intentionally lose some, to throw some of it away to get a slightly higher yield ... but too me that is still illogical. 

If someone is going to do that it would make more sense to me to pick a strain like Big Bud or maybe Critical Mass, strains known for massive yields, and harvest it when it is at peak potency and still end up with even higher yields of a pot rather than growing a strain that does not yield as much and growing it beyond peak potency and ending up with much less of something that will only be slightly more potent. If yield is of such importance that someone will willingly give up potency for a slightly higher yield why not go whole hog and go for massive yields?

Some might say that goes beyond the idea of trying to "balance potency and yield," but if they are willing to drag their potency level down to what would be equal to lesser genetics when harvested at the optimal time for peak potency, just for a slightly higher yield, then for a much, much larger yield it would make more sense to pick strains that if harvested when at peak potency levels would at least be close to the same. For that large of an increase in yield, since yield is so important, the slight additional difference in potency would have to be worth the trade off to get the much larger yield.

But I guess it is a case of to each their own ... and everyone has their own priorities and everyone finds what they perceive as being a value in different things.


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## Purplekrunchie (Jan 19, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> It is not a case of harvesting early, not even slightly early. It is a case of harvesting when the glandular trichomes will have reached peak levels of THC, so it is harvesting when a plant will be at it's highest potency.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well that's basically my point, I harvest at peak potency so I have 1 hit smoke, not when the trichs have broken down to shit. That may have at times cost me some yield, but as you said, if I need less, than it's all same same anyways. When it swells and turns color it is indeed at peak, leave it longer at that point it slowly goes the other way. And like I said before, I am my only customer, and I am looking for 2 things, potency and flavor, and I achieve that with flying colors, and have never looked at a trich with a microscope.

And yes I did err when I said most indoor growers, because most are probably like me, and want the best quality, and don't care about money. But even myself, I try to get as much as I can naturally, and still try and stay within my happy potency window. And after so long, you just kind of know it's arrived, kind of how a farmer rips open an ear of corn and knows.


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## Brick Top (Jan 19, 2011)

Purplekrunchie said:


> Well that's basically my point, I harvest at peak potency so I have 1 hit smoke, not when the trichs have broken down to shit. That may have at times cost me some yield, but as you said, if I need less, than it's all same same anyways. When it swells and turns color it is indeed at peak, leave it longer at that point it slowly goes the other way. And like I said before, I am my only customer, and I am looking for 2 things, potency and flavor, and I achieve that with flying colors, and have never looked at a trich with a microscope.
> 
> And yes I did err when I said most indoor growers, because most are probably like me, and want the best quality, and don't care about money. But even myself, I try to get as much as I can naturally, and still try and stay within my happy potency window. And after so long, you just kind of know it's arrived, kind of how a farmer rips open an ear of corn and knows.



Sorry if I misunderstood you but when you said;


> *I think slightly early harvested smoke is extremely potent and valuable, but most indoor growers try and balance potency and yield. That requires it to be left a bit longer, in most cases. I actually never look at my trichs, I look at the swell, once they do that, I know it's at peak potency, and flavor."*


That gave me the impression that if you do not look at your trichomes and if you grow a bit longer, which sounded to me like longer than what I had described, that you grow past peak potency in favor of a slight increase in yield. 

I never advocate harvesting early, but when plants reach peak THC levels is considered early in the opinions of many who do not understand trichomes/cannabinoids. What they consider to be the optimal time to harvest is actually harvesting late and I misunderstood what you wrote and to me it sounded too me like you harvest late. 

Sorry, my error.

Oh .. one other thing. 



> And after so long, you just kind of know it's arrived, kind of how a farmer rips open an ear of corn and knows.


In a few more months I will have grown for 39 years and even after that many years, almost four decades worth, I cannot harvest by appearance anywhere near as well as I can by trichome color. You must be damn good if you can.


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## Purplekrunchie (Jan 19, 2011)

Oh yeah, well I was saying most growers, which was wrong to say. But when I say most, I'm not talking about myself, because I am always different, which isn't necessarily always a good thing lolz. 

And I don't think it's that I'm so good, I think there is enough margin for error, and I always err on the too soon side, because I have always been scared of seeing a bud with calyxes exploded and dry. Which it's very hard to be that late, but that's the nightmare that nips at my heels. Once my hairs have turned, and the bud has puffed, and it has that certain shade. But with that being said, there is an absolute minimum time wise, and that is 50 days, I actually had an unknown Jamaican strain years ago that was ripe in 50 days almost like clockwork.


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## Brick Top (Jan 19, 2011)

Purplekrunchie said:


> Oh yeah, well I was saying most growers, which was wrong to say. But when I say most, I'm not talking about myself, because I am always different, which isn't necessarily always a good thing lolz.
> 
> And I don't think it's that I'm so good, I think there is enough margin for error, and I always err on the too soon side, because I have always been scared of seeing a bud with calyxes exploded and dry. Which it's very hard to be that late, but that's the nightmare that nips at my heels. Once my hairs have turned, and the bud has puffed, and it has that certain shade. But with that being said, there is an absolute minimum time wise, and that is 50 days, I actually had an unknown Jamaican strain years ago that was ripe in 50 days almost like clockwork.



There are rare cases where harvesting by site/appearance it really tough and it is easy to make an error. Not many strains, but a few, Sagarmatha's Mantanuska Tundra is one, where the pistils will still be mostly to all white when the plant is fully ripe and ready for harvest. With a strain like that if someone waits for the pistils to turn color and recede they will grow it way past peak potency. It is the few strains like that, that prove there is not really a true natural connection between pistil color and ripeness. The reason there appears to be a real connection between pistil color and ripeness is because so many strains are so very similar in their basic makeup that most will react pretty much the same, but not all and back when landraces were all people had to grow you saw things you seldom if ever see now. 

Some stains would never have trichomes that were a colorless-clear and instead began as a clear-yellow or a clear-amber and some would not change color, all they would do is turn cloudy, so in those if you were going by trichome color you just watched for a certain percentage of cloudy trichomes for the sign of when to harvest. And then in the case of a pure sativa, or some that are nearly pure, like 90% sativa, they reach peak THC levels before any trichome clouding begins .. so in those you would wait until you saw around 5% to 10% cloudy trichomes and the rest clear and that would be the time to harvest .... and it would not be harvesting early ... it would be harvesting with THC levels have peaked. In those seeing cloudy is like seeing amber in other strains, a sign that THC has begun to oxidize and is being lost. 

Some things about growing have a singular answer to them, a single way of doing it right, an across the board correct way to do things, but in some aspects of growing there is no single across the board how to do it answer because some strains just do not do/show the same things and if they do they do not do/show them at the same times so going by them makes mistakes easy to make.


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## tingpoon (Jan 19, 2011)

if you want a heavier stone, wait for the amber color. it doesnt mean that its 'sh!t' though


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## Serapis (Jan 19, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> Goodie gumdrops .... but if you want to make me happy name your first, or next, kid after me.
> 
> Wouldn't it be fun to have a little Brick Top of your own around the house?


Not if all he does is copy and paste huge amounts of data in the middle of an obscure thread....

Why not start a thread and post it at the top, and give credit to sources, which ya never do.

THC and CBD are both Marijuana compounds that are important to the high. White Widow is high in THC, while New York City Diesel is high in CBD's. Both are considered strong strains, two very different highs. THC alone gives a very stimulated high. CBD's, while not mind altering like THC, regulate how our body interacts with THC that we consume. A plant with more CBD's is less likely to cause panic, anxiety or paranoia.

For a good long look at CBD's and their relationship to THC, look here.... http://ukcia.org/wordpress/?p=50

CBDs aren't bad as some would have you believe.


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## CoralGrower (Jan 19, 2011)

Purplekrunchie said:


> I grow for myself and not selling purposes, so I become the number one customer, and the customer is always right.




That's a great way to look at it.



Amber = shit..........I guess that makes me a shithead.


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## krok (Jan 19, 2011)

When I started the thread, I believed everybody cured their harvest, but based on the replies I guess most people don't cure at all.


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## Brick Top (Jan 20, 2011)

Serapis said:


> Not if all he does is copy and paste huge amounts of data in the middle of an obscure thread...


.


I suppose you would prefer him to write three line messages that are inaccurate opinions that he heard/read from someone else and the parroted like most people here do.




> Why not start a thread and post it at the top, and give credit to sources, which ya never do.


When I C&P something I never attempt to lay claim to it being my work and as long as it is accurate, which it is, and that of course is the most important part, and while it it not all that often I will from time to time include a link to what I post ... but then much of it is information that I have copied and saved and did not save the site. Much of the things I post are saved on disc or to Word because the topics come up so often I can just open a file or pop in a disc and there it is. 



> THC and CBD are both Marijuana compounds that are important to the high. White Widow is high in THC, while New York City Diesel is high in CBD's. Both are considered strong strains, two very different highs. THC alone gives a very stimulated high. CBD's, while not mind altering like THC, regulate how our body interacts with THC that we consume. A plant with more CBD's is less likely to cause panic, anxiety or paranoia.



Why don't you attempt to tell me something I do not already know ... that is if you can find something I do not already know. 






> CBDs aren't bad as some would have you believe.


I am not sure who believes CBDs are bad, that is unless you define someone saying they are bad as in someone having a personal preference for low CBD strains. But that wouldn't be saying they are bad, it would only be saying the person prefers a high that comes with a lower CBD percentage. 

I have preached for ages that if someone wants or needs a body stone, a couch-lock stone to find strains that are higher in CBD rather than picking strains that are high in THC and growing them too long and end up with amber trichomes that is a sign of THC having oxidized and turned into CBN and from it get a fake body stone, a fake couch-lock stone.

I have said many times that some growers will make terrible choices for the genetics they pick and go for the highest THC strain they can find, which means it will be very low in CBD, which gives a true body stone, and then attempt to play alchemist and attempt by growing it too long, past it's peak potency, to transform the genetics into something they never were and never will be.


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## 925Grow'N (Jan 20, 2011)

Ha, who knows in the future. If the name "Brick Top" will incourage the characteristics and behavior of the character in Snatch....I might have to pass!

Thanks again for the knowledge!


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## Pipe Dream (Jan 20, 2011)

Serapis said:


> Not if all he does is copy and paste huge amounts of data in the middle of an obscure thread....
> 
> Why not start a thread and post it at the top, and give credit to sources, which ya never do.
> 
> ...


I think your missing the point. CBD and CBN are 2 different things apparently. The OP found it to be a great answer to his ? so leave it at that.


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## rockbud (Jan 21, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> Goodie gumdrops .... but if you want to make me happy name your first, or next, kid after me.
> 
> Wouldn't it be fun to have a little Brick Top of your own around the house?


hahhaha!!thanks for the info also..gonna pull mine sunday!


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## Hogg (Jan 21, 2011)

Agree with BrickTop's assesment about trichs...Most on this site will baaa..baaa...just like sheep repeating the Amber trichomes mantra...most dont know anything other than what they regurgitate from others.. Mostly amber trichs will egt you "dumb" weed with that messed up feeling not a good "High" feeling


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## Serapis (Jan 21, 2011)

Hogg said:


> Agree with BrickTop's assesment about trichs...Most on this site will baaa..baaa...just like sheep repeating the Amber trichomes mantra...most dont know anything other than what they regurgitate from others.. Mostly amber trichs will egt you "dumb" weed with that messed up feeling not a good "High" feeling


And that would be your personal opinion.... I haven't seen ANY one suggest harvesting only when most of the trichomes are amber, that is ridiculous. 10-15% amber is ideal... by then, the trichomes have reached mass resin production and are ripe for plucking.


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## Brick Top (Jan 21, 2011)

Serapis said:


> I haven't seen ANY one suggest harvesting only when most of the trichomes are amber, that is ridiculous.




Not in this thread but remember not everyone who reads a thread joins in and this site has MANY growers who will say that 50% or more amber is he way to go. So when I say something I tend to not only reply to what has been said to that point in the thread but what also fits the topic in general and also in regards to what is likely to be said by someone else later on in a thread. 





> 10-15% amber is ideal... by then, the trichomes have reached mass resin production and are ripe for plucking.



For one it is largely strain dependent and second, we are back to the point of maximum potency versus higher yield or maximum resin production. If it of value to have more resin that is less potent? In most strains 5% to 10% amber is the most someone would ever want *IF* they still want to retain maximum potency. If slightly more resin that is not as potent and slightly more yield is what someone wants and prefers then by all means continue to grow past the point of peak potency. It is all up to each individual and what their priorities are and what they like and prefer more. 

In the case of a pure sativa, or crosses that are mostly sativa, like 90% sativa, they reach maximum levels of THC when the trichomes are still clear. In cases like that someone would wait to see between 5% and 10% cloudy/milky trichomes and then harvest if they want maximum potency. 

Then there are rare cases where trichomes will not begin as a colorless-clear and instead begin as a clear-yellow and even a clear-amber. In cases like that you cannot rely on color change because there may not be any. How would you know when to harvest by percentage of amber if the trichomes start out as amber, as can happen in rare cases? 

When those rare occurrences do occur you can only go by clouding ... and when 5% to 10% of whatever the original trichome color turns cloudy, that would be when to harvest to have maximum potency.


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## 925Grow'N (Jan 21, 2011)

Hey Bricktop, what do you think of these trichomes if you wouldn't mind? Day 54 of flower. Casey Jones strain.


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## Brick Top (Jan 22, 2011)

925Grow'N said:


> Hey Bricktop, what do you think of these trichomes if you wouldn't mind? Day 54 of flower. Casey Jones strain.
> 
> View attachment 1395480View attachment 1395479View attachment 1395478View attachment 1395477View attachment 1395476View attachment 1395475



While the pictures were pretty clear it is impossible to tell what most of the trichomes on the plants are like, but going by what I could see I would say it looks good and you are getting close. I could only make out one amber colored trichome in the pictures but it shouldn't take long for a small handful more to show up and when they do, and you are around 5% to 10% amber I would chop if they were mine. 

If it is the Casey Jones I have read about the breeder is sort of vague on flowering time saying 63 days but then also saying 8 to 10 weeks, and if going by the 8 weeks you would be only two days away from the earliest the breeder said it will finish. If the rest of the trichomes are like what I could see, as I said, you are getting close. 

Something I am a bit curious about is do you know what the humidity level has been, on average, during flower?



If it is the Casey Jones I have read about it is an interesting sounding strain. 



*Casey Jones* »»» Oriental Express x ECSD v3
Oriental Express 
»»» Trainwreck x Thailand
Trainwreck 
USA »»» Indica/Sativa Hybrid

Thailand »»» Indica/Sativa Hybrid

ECSD v3 IBL
Sour Diesel 
»»» Original Diesel x DNL
Original Diesel 
»»» Chemdawg x {MassSuperSkunk x SensiNL}
MassSuperSkunk x SensiNL 
MassSuperSkunk
Unknown Hybrid »»» Indica/Sativa Hybrid

 
SensiNL
Northern Lights #1 IBL
Afghanistan »»» Indica



Chemdawg 
Unknown Indica »»» Indica


DNL 
»»» {RFK Skunk x Hawaiian} x Northern Lights
RFK Skunk x Hawaiian 
RFK Skunk
Unknown Skunk 
Skunk #1 
»»» Afghanistan x Mexico x Colombia
Afghanistan »»» Indica
Mexico »»» Sativa
Colombia »»» Sativa



 
Hawaiian »»» Indica/Sativa Hybrid

Northern Lights


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## rockbud (Jan 22, 2011)

925Grow'N said:


> Hey Bricktop, what do you think of these trichomes if you wouldn't mind? Day 54 of flower. Casey Jones strain.
> 
> View attachment 1395480View attachment 1395479View attachment 1395478View attachment 1395477View attachment 1395476View attachment 1395475


i need to get a better mag loupe..my 30x doesnt show tris like that..much easier to see with what u have?


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## GutterGravy (Jan 22, 2011)

Hey i have a question for Brick Top, i'm about 7 weeks into a 300w Greenhouse Big Bang grow. In the GHS video Arjan says it can be ready at 8 weeks but can go to 10weeks for "a different array of cannabinoids"(CBD, CBN). MY question is, being that its heritage is Northern Lights x Skunk #1 x el nino, if i harvest this around 8.5-9 weeks and the tric's are 95% cloudy, will it only be a THC driven high OR will there be enough CBD naturally from its genes to deliver the body high associated with this strain. Thank you!


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## 925Grow'N (Jan 23, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> While the pictures were pretty clear it is impossible to tell what most of the trichomes on the plants are like, but going by what I could see I would say it looks good and you are getting close. I could only make out one amber colored trichome in the pictures but it shouldn't take long for a small handful more to show up and when they do, and you are around 5% to 10% amber I would chop if they were mine.
> 
> If it is the Casey Jones I have read about the breeder is sort of vague on flowering time saying 63 days but then also saying 8 to 10 weeks, and if going by the 8 weeks you would be only two days away from the earliest the breeder said it will finish. If the rest of the trichomes are like what I could see, as I said, you are getting close.
> 
> ...


 
I salute you Brick Top! Your threads have helped me sooooooooooo much! I've learned something new every time! 

I've had my humidy at 45-47%, temp. at 74-76 degrees F. I took some more pics today and just like you said, "a handful will appear." before I even logged on today! I can see a lot of the trichomes filling up getting milky. I cut the smallest one down on day 56, and I will be cutting the next one down on 58, then the last 2 around day 60 unless I see too many amber trichs. This is for learning purposes.
 
I wanted to ask, I also have a Grand Daddy Purple and I swear I'm seeing trichomes turning purple, not amber. Is that something strain related? I was really surprised to see them.


I got the usb magnifying scope at Toys R' Us for $29.99 in science kit isle.


----------



## Brick Top (Jan 23, 2011)

GutterGravy said:


> Hey i have a question for Brick Top, i'm about 7 weeks into a 300w Greenhouse Big Bang grow. In the GHS video Arjan says it can be ready at 8 weeks but can go to 10weeks for "a different array of cannabinoids"(CBD, CBN). MY question is, being that its heritage is Northern Lights x Skunk #1 x el nino, if i harvest this around 8.5-9 weeks and the tric's are 95% cloudy, will it only be a THC driven high OR will there be enough CBD naturally from its genes to deliver the body high associated with this strain. Thank you!



If you harvest when no more than 5% to 10% of trichomes are amber you will be harvesting when THC is at peak levels. That will give you as much of a head high as the genetics can give you, but waiting longer and allowing more amber trichomes will not increase levels of CBD, it will only cause/allow THC to oxidize and transform into increased levels of CBN. The combination gives a fake couch-lock body stone feeling. With less potency due to less THC and increased levels of CBN, that causes a fuzzy head, confused, disoriented, drowsy, sleepy feeling. Many growers wrongly confuse that for being more potent and higher in CBD and more of a real couch-lock body stone, when it really is none of those things. 

Your CBD levels will be what the strains genetics, along with growing conditions and environment, will allow them to be, but the CBD level will not be lower due to harvesting at peak potency. If the CBD levels are not enough for your tastes then you need to find a strain or strains that are higher in CBD, which is difficult to do since breeders breeding for recreational strains and Mr. Toad's Wild Ride have all but bred CBD out of most modern crosses. The higher the THC percentage the lower the CBD percentage will be and all the CBN in the world will not provide the medicinal properties of CBD. It may be enough for all the Beavis and Buttheads to to be able to sit on a couch for hours on end watching music videos or the weather channel while eating gas station burritos and downing Big Gulps and actually enjoy being bored beyond belief, but for anyone who wants and or need CBD for medicinal reasons CBN will never cut it for them.


Additional:





> Juiced Marijuana Offered to Medical Users as Alternative to Smoking
> June 15, 2010
> 
> A California physician is offering his medical-marijuana patients a liquefied version of the drug that he says won't produce much of a buzz but does contain chemicals helpful in treating a variety of illnesses, the Washington Post reported June 1
> ...







> *Why Modern Medical Cannabis Strains have Minimal CBD*
> 
> 
> Sam the Skunkman says that nearly all modern cannabis is pretty much CBD-free or the levels are so low as to be miniscule, landrace indicas are the way to go.
> ...


High CBD medicinal strains are being developed, but you will notice that they are all low in THC percentages. You have to pick between one or the other. You just cannot have both. 




> *The Blue-Ribbon Plant*
> 
> The plant richest in CBD is a &#8220;True Blueberry/OG Kush&#8221; cross grown in the mountains south of Yreka by Wendell Lee of Full Spectrum Genetics (not to be confused with the lab in Colorado). Dried buds of TB/OGK have been sent for testing on four occasions by Harborside, the dispensary with which Lee is associated.
> 
> ...


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## GutterGravy (Jan 23, 2011)

Thank you very much Brick Top. I will harvest at 95% cloudy then as i believe the Big Bang can have around 15% THC and 1.5% CBD naturally. Do the tric's continue to oxidize during the drying/curing process?


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## Brick Top (Jan 23, 2011)

GutterGravy said:


> Do the tric's continue to oxidize during the drying/curing process?


Yes, but only to a degree and they will do so more or less due to conditions, light, heat etc. will continue the advancement of the breaking down of THC and other cannabinoids so it is important to dry and cure under as optimal of conditions as possible. The more optimal the conditions, the less breakdown will occur, the less optimal the conditions, the more the breakdown will occur.


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## GutterGravy (Jan 23, 2011)

gotcha! thank you very much


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## Shmulster (Jan 23, 2011)

wow... so much important information in one post... if you could change the title somehow this should be a sticky in my opnion... defintely reconsidering my harvest time....


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## GutterGravy (Jan 24, 2011)

Shmulster said:


> wow... so much important information in one post... if you could change the title somehow this should be a sticky in my opnion... defintely reconsidering my harvest time....


yeah i agree..i feel like its pounded into our brains from being on the forums that we want 50/50 cloudy/amber but what i've learned thanks to BrickTop has been an eye opener


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## rockbud (Jan 24, 2011)

GutterGravy said:


> yeah i agree..i feel like its pounded into our brains from being on the forums that we want 50/50 cloudy/amber but what i've learned thanks to BrickTop has been an eye opener


yea +++reps to bricktop.. i agree its been pounded into our heads..50/50 but im changing my harvest times also!


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## Brick Top (Jan 24, 2011)

GutterGravy said:


> i feel like its pounded into our brains from being on the forums that we want 50/50 cloudy/amber


Propaganda is a powerful tool. Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels taught Adolph Hitler than if you tell a lie enough times it eventually becomes the truth, and the bigger the lie the more believable it will be. 

That is how 50/50 cloudy/amber became seen as being a fact. It was repeated enough times that it took on an air of being factual.

It is like in the movie "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" Jimmy Stewart's character told the true story about the shooting of Liberty Valance and the newspaper editor crumpled up his notes and threw them into a wood burning stove. Jimmy Stewart's character asked; "You're not going to use the story, Mr. Scott?" and the editor's reply was; "No, sir. This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."

50/50 cloudy/amber is the legend that has become fact to many growers.


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## cannabisguru (Jan 24, 2011)

Serapis said:


> Not if all he does is copy and paste huge amounts of data in the middle of an obscure thread....
> 
> Why not start a thread and post it at the top, and give credit to sources, which ya never do.
> 
> ...



LMFAO! Thank god.. someone finally confronts this moron.. who thinks he's got the answer to EVERY single question. I've been around here for about 2 years now.. and every time I see the name 'Brick Top', I immediately think "Ah shit, here we go again.. Mr. KnowItAll with the answers to everything."

People, if you want to copy/paste material into the forums.. fine. However, if you do.. please have the courtesy to include where the information came from including the Author (if applicable). Otherwise, it makes you look like an idiot. Makes ya look kinda like Brick Top.  To put it nicely.. 

peace.


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## rzza (Jan 24, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> Goodie gumdrops .... but if you want to make me happy name your first, or next, kid after me.
> 
> Wouldn't it be fun to have a little Brick Top of your own around the house?


how chochy of you.


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## mafia (Jan 24, 2011)

cannabisguru said:


> LMFAO! Thank god.. someone finally confronts this moron.. who thinks he's got the answer to EVERY single question. I've been around here for about 2 years now.. and every time I see the name 'Brick Top', I immediately think "Ah shit, here we go again.. Mr. KnowItAll with the answers to everything."
> 
> People, if you want to copy/paste material into the forums.. fine. However, if you do.. please have the courtesy to include where the information came from including the Author (if applicable).* Otherwise, it makes you look like an idiot*. Makes ya look kinda like Brick Top.  To put it nicely..
> 
> peace.


i could care less if he doesnt provide links, and i dont see anyone else trying to help as much as he does. 
You look like an idiot for complaining about it.


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## Pureblood89 (Jan 24, 2011)

I've harvested when all the trichomes are milky, and I've harvested when they're almost all amber, I really didn't like either. I harvest now at about 35% amber 65% milky, Gives you a nice relaxing buzz without feeling jittery or spacey.


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## Brick Top (Jan 24, 2011)

cannabisguru said:


> LMFAO! Thank god.. someone finally confronts this moron.. who thinks he's got the answer to EVERY single question. I've been around here for about 2 years now.. and every time I see the name 'Brick Top', I immediately think "Ah shit, here we go again.. Mr. KnowItAll with the answers to everything."
> 
> People, if you want to copy/paste material into the forums.. fine. However, if you do.. please have the courtesy to include where the information came from including the Author (if applicable). Otherwise, it makes you look like an idiot. Makes ya look kinda like Brick Top.  To put it nicely..
> 
> peace.



Why don't you do yourself a favor and avoid the irritation of seeing any more of my messages by just using the ignore function? If you do that you will no longer be at risk of actually learning something.


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## Brick Top (Jan 24, 2011)

cannabisguru said:


> *I've been around here for about 2 years now*.. and every time I see the name 'Brick Top', I immediately think "Ah shit, here we go again.. Mr. KnowItAll with the answers to everything."



*I am curious about something. Did you create a sock-puppet account for any particular reason or did you have your original account closed or something? You said you have; "been around here for about 2 years now" but your account says "Stranger" and your join date is; "Join Date 01-20-2011." That's only four days ago. 

Do you feel some need to hide your true identity so you created a sock-puppet account to attack me, and possibly others with? Or were you recently booted and you have now sneaked back in? *

Is that you Laffy Taffy ... or maybe it's that farm-guy, or are you another of my pet trolls ... or do I now have yet another one to enjoy?


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## GutterGravy (Jan 24, 2011)

cannabisguru said:


> LMFAO! Thank god.. someone finally confronts this moron.. who thinks he's got the answer to EVERY single question. I've been around here for about 2 years now.. and every time I see the name 'Brick Top', I immediately think "Ah shit, here we go again.. Mr. KnowItAll with the answers to everything."
> 
> People, if you want to copy/paste material into the forums.. fine. However, if you do.. please have the courtesy to include where the information came from including the Author (if applicable). Otherwise, it makes you look like an idiot. Makes ya look kinda like Brick Top.  To put it nicely..
> 
> peace.




it must be 2-4-1 on Haterade...but seriously, dont hate on people who are just trying to help others. I dont see you contributing anything valid or relevant


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## masscom25 (Jan 24, 2011)

yeah for some reason I've run n2 a few dif threads where people were giving BT a hard time but i've never really understood y. IDK if he remembers or not but when I first joined here and hadn't learned my way around the site yet or how to use the tools I PM'd him several times to where I was sure I was annoying him but every time all he did was politely answer my questions in an informative way. Is being helpful a crime? He's not runnin arond pushin his opinion on people hes offering help when it is being solicited. Big difference.


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## auldone (Jan 24, 2011)

This site is a very helpful site. If it were not for Brick Top and many others who offer the knowledge they have collected over their years of trial and error, there would really be no need to come here. I have come across certain peeps who KNOW what they are talking about and it really doesn't take long to figure out who knows their shit on here. I, and a shit load of others, don't care if people give credit when they C&P. It's free info that YOU did not have to take the time to find. Why bitch about that? 

My work background is construction. More specific, underground construction. Any time some General Foreman or Superintendent shows up, it usually takes about 2 minutes to figure out if he worked his way up into that position from some piss ant laborer spot or went to some College and read some books on how to "Manage a Construction site" and has a piece of paper saying he read those books. But yet has NEVER been out in the field ass deep in mud ramming a 4" conduit into a concrete vault that is slowly sinking due to the fact that the vault is to heavy and is placed BELOW the water table line. I was a Foreman on a job during that very situation and my Super, who was about 6 months out of College and ordered the heavy (and wrong) vault tells me to "Just add dry dirt."....

Here is my point, I will take 3+ DECADES of hard work and dedication from Brick Top anyday. He wouldn't tell me to "Just add dry dirt"....


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## Brick Top (Jan 24, 2011)

This thread was not started about me so how about everyone getting back on topic, that is unless the information that has been provided by those involved has proven the initial statement to be correct and the discussion is finished. If so then let the thread die rather than turn it into an argument about me. 

I do not care in the least what anyone here thinks about me, be it either positive or negative, so I see no reason why anyone else should care enough about what someone might think about me to argue about it. 

If someone wants to call me a blowhard or a dick why not just send me a PM and lambast me and try to rip me a new one rather than hijacking and mucking up people's threads over some personal thing that is bothering them? 

Do they think that by doing it in someone's thread that it will make them look like 'da man' instead of 'da moron?' 

It won't.


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## Brick Top (Jan 24, 2011)

cannabisguru said:


> People, if you want to copy/paste material into the forums.. fine. However, if you do.. please have the courtesy to include where the information came from including the Author (if applicable).



Why is that something that always needs to be done, to offer proof of the information being credible?

If so then each and every single handwritten message totally lacks any and all credibility since there is nothing whatsoever supporting it, backing it, proving it to be credible, proving it to be accurate, proving it to be factual and all it can ever be accepted as being is the person's personal opinion and personal belief and absolutely nothing more.

That is if you actually believe that citing the information someone posts is needed to prove credibility.

You could try the old ploy of claiming that if someone C&P's something it is because they do not know the information themselves because if they did they would have just written the information in the message themselves. But lacking a link to a credible site and source where what was written can be checked against proven facts there is no proof what was written was in any way accurate or factual, so unless a handwritten message includes a link to a credible site and source it is even less believable, less credible than a C&P piece that was obviously written by someone who knew precisely what they were talking about.


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## aotearoa420 (Jan 24, 2011)

looks like im harvesting earlier than i had previously thought.

thanks for the insight Brick top


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## Brick Top (Jan 24, 2011)

aotearoa420 said:


> looks like im harvesting earlier than i had previously thought.
> 
> thanks for the insight Brick top



Something I should mention that I had meant to say but never got around to saying is in the end it all comes down to personal preference in a high or stone or combination of each and if someone prefers lower THC levels and higher CBN levels that is totally cool and the gang *FOR THEM. *

What I was trying to get across is the people who claim that mostly amber or all amber equates to increased potency are wrong and they should not advise other people to harvest the same way they like to. 

To say what they get when harvesting late and that they prefer it is totally fine and does no one any harm, but when they incorrectly claim it will get others peak levels of THC and that a crop will be at it's most potent when 35% or 50% or 75% or whatever higher percentage of the trichomes have turned amber it is inaccurate and misleading. 

To say it is what they like is one thing, to say it is the best for all growers and for all strains is something totally different. 

I have no problem with anyone who likes amber trichomes and the lesser amount of THC and the increased amount of CBN that goes with it in what they grow and smoke, but I do have a problem with anyone who tells others who do not know about cannabinoid development inaccurate information that is solely based on their own personal preference in a high/stone and not at all based in fact.

To each their own, do whatever you like the most, just don't mislead others based on your own personal preferences is all I am saying to those who preach larger percentages of amber equates to increased potency.


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## rockbud (Jan 25, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> Something I should mention that I had meant to say but never got around to saying is in the end it all comes down to personal preference in a high or stone or combination of each and if someone prefers lower THC levels and higher CBN levels that is totally cool and the gang *FOR THEM. *
> 
> What I was trying to get across is the people who claim that mostly amber or all amber equates to increased potency are wrong and they should not advise other people to harvest the same way they like to.
> 
> ...


 i agree..my personal preference is a srtong uplifting high..so im gonna cut all cloudy...thank you bricktop!


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## jcommerce (Jan 25, 2011)

This was just discussed in the latest issue of High Times (March 2011). It has turned the harvesting world on its head. 10 - 20 year No Cal growers were religiously harvesting when half of trichomes were cloudy and half were amber. A recent lab study confirmed what Brick mentioned above....that max THC levels are seen when trichomes are cloudy. Amber trichs are indeed signaling decay...just like an over-ripe banana, tomato, etc.


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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Jan 25, 2011)

I just hacked into BT's computer, every once in a while he shows emotion:


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## rockbud (Jan 25, 2011)

jcommerce said:


> This was just discussed in the latest issue of High Times (March 2011). It has turned the harvesting world on its head. 10 - 20 year No Cal growers were religiously harvesting when half of trichomes were cloudy and half were amber. A recent lab study confirmed what Brick mentioned above....that max THC levels are seen when trichomes are cloudy. Amber trichs are indeed signaling decay...just like an over-ripe banana, tomato, etc.


 I like overripe bananas...but not overipe buds..I love this new study!!


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## ratatoolie (Jan 25, 2011)

im so confused now because alot of people are telling me for the best results are when the trics are 50/50 others tell me 30/70 what the hell my plants are at week seven today my trics are completely cloudy i cant find one clear or amber but BT seems to know what he is talking about please check out my sig BT ill have new pics up tonight at about 7 let me know what you think at the same time you can stir things up in my thread im looking for some legit info again please come check me out give me you opinion im in the prosses of flushing what do i do cut them down or let them go a little longer


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## theexpress (Jan 25, 2011)

socaliboy said:


> The longer you leave it the stonier the effect, if you harvest it too early it will be more "uplifting".


lol more like if you harvest too early it will be more "crap"


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## theexpress (Jan 25, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> Something I should mention that I had meant to say but never got around to saying is in the end it all comes down to personal preference in a high or stone or combination of each and if someone prefers lower THC levels and higher CBN levels that is totally cool and the gang *FOR THEM. *
> 
> What I was trying to get across is the people who claim that mostly amber or all amber equates to increased potency are wrong and they should not advise other people to harvest the same way they like to.
> 
> ...


in my persoanl experianxe the more cloudy you leave the shorter lasting the high is./.. it just dont linger like some half amber nugget!!! but your a sativa kinda guy anyway so....


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## 925Grow'N (Jan 25, 2011)

theexpress, I love how your signature says "10th degree blackbelt in soil cultivation" I used to do tae kwon do and it brought me back in a funny way.


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## jcommerce (Jan 25, 2011)

I was wrong, see below:

Quoted from High Times March 2011 issue from the article "Trichome Tech - Inside the Resin Factory" (craziest grow setup ever...dude has 2 Twisters!")

For years, K would harvest once the resin heads began turning from opaque to amber, but he's recently rethought his timing thanks to a study by Dr. Paul G. Mahlberg who found that the THC in a resin head is at its peak when it's still clear - not opaque and certainly not amber. Dr. Mahlberg stuck a tiny syringe into the bulbous head of the trichome and extracted its contents, then analyzed it for THC. The result, without a doubt, THC is at its highest before the trichome turns opaque. This makes sense when you think about it: Who harvests fruit when it's turning brown.....K now harvests at the first sign of opaque trichomes, when the majority on the plant are still clear."


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## Brick Top (Jan 25, 2011)

jcommerce said:


> I was wrong, see below:
> 
> Quoted from High Times March 2011 issue from the article "Trichome Tech - Inside the Resin Factory" (craziest grow setup ever...dude has 2 Twisters!")
> 
> For years, K would harvest once the resin heads began turning from opaque to amber, but he's recently rethought his timing thanks to a study by Dr. Paul G. Mahlberg who found that the THC in a resin head is at its peak when it's still clear - not opaque and certainly not amber. Dr. Mahlberg stuck a tiny syringe into the bulbous head of the trichome and extracted its contents, then analyzed it for THC. The result, without a doubt, THC is at its highest before the trichome turns opaque. This makes sense when you think about it: Who harvests fruit when it's turning brown.....K now harvests at the first sign of opaque trichomes, when the majority on the plant are still clear."


That is definitely true in the case of a pure sativa or one that is highly predominantly sativa. Maybe it is true about more or even all strains, but I am not able to say for sure. 

Most growers like a singular 'how to,' a singular, 'this is right,' 'this is correct' answer or method for everything grow related. In some cases there are singular answers, but in others there just aren't. Plus for as long as people have grown there has really been only highly limited actual scientific research done about some aspects of growing and much of what has become considered to be knowledge and fact is nothing more than the opinions of basement and closet and spare room and garage and attic and back yard growers and in reality their self formed beliefs, which are nothing more than opinions, are anything but factual or true knowledge. 

It is time for growers to accept that the opinions they read or were told and accepted as being facts are anything but factual and that they need to rethink what they do if they want the best they can get.


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## Brick Top (Jan 25, 2011)

Bonzi Lighthouse said:


> I just hacked into BT's computer, every once in a while he shows emotion:



Sure I show emotions ... at times .... like the grimace on my face when I lay the thank you for visiting me cash on a table for an 'escort' to pick up and again right after she makes my toes curl and crack ... but then it is a smile, not a grimace.


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## Brick Top (Jan 25, 2011)

> *Originally Posted by socaliboy  * *The longer you leave it the stonier the effect, if you harvest it too early it will be more "uplifting".*





theexpress said:


> lol more like if you harvest too early it will be more "crap"



The problem here is incorrectly created definitions and not singular definitions accepted by all. To many harvesting when THC levels will be at their peak level is defined as harvesting early, even though it is not a case of harvesting early. To many harvesting when there is a considerable amount of amber trichomes is considered harvesting at the proper time, when in fact is it is harvesting late. 

Growers have had the incorrect definitions pounded into their heads for so long that they have taken on an air of fact, the appearance of truth ... but they are just incorrect.


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## 80mg (Jan 25, 2011)

> *Cannabidiol is nonpsychoactive and was initially thought to have no effect on the psycho activity of THC. Recent evidence however show that smokers of cannabis are less likely to experience schizophrenia-like symptoms if there is a higher CBD to THC ratio. Experiments show that participants experienced less intense psychotic effects when intravenous THC was co-administered with CBD. It has been hypothesized that CBD acts as an allosteric antagonist at the CB1 receptor and thus alters the psychoactive effects of THC, resulting in a more easily manageable high.
> 
> CBD is generally considered to have more medicinal properties than THC. It appears to relieve convulsion, inflammation (and thereby also migraines), anxiety and nausea. That is why strains with a high concentration of CBD is suitable for medicinal use.
> 
> ...


Not to be rude....but you can't inject THC. THC is an oil that is NOT water soluble. I call bullshit.

Source: Was a addict for 5 years. You named it, I injected it.


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## theexpress (Jan 25, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> The problem here is incorrectly created definitions and not singular definitions accepted by all. To many harvesting when THC levels will be at their peak level is defined as harvesting early, even though it is not a case of harvesting early. To many harvesting when there is a considerable amount of amber trichomes is considered harvesting at the proper time, when in fact is it is harvesting late.
> 
> Growers have had the incorrect definitions pounded into their heads for so long that they have taken on an air of fact, the appearance of truth ... but they are just incorrect.


well in that case i like to harvest "late" hahahahahahaha


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## Chechero (Jan 25, 2011)

There is a singular truth we just never discover it all at once there is usually a refining process. For a long time we just didn't know when to harvest. People would judge ripeness by the colour of the pistils (red hairs.) Then we all got X100 magnification and the question became trich colour. Soma was a big advocate of the 1/3 amber so much so that the coffee shops in Amsterdam wouldn't buy product if it was all milky or clear trich'd. Now we are discovering that amber might be too late. Amber is oxidization, it's essentially rust and already losing potency. Another fallacy is the role of CBN. It is not the body buzzing indica profiled cannabinoid. CBN is only mildly psychoactive and the product of degrading THC. CBD is what causes the anxiolytic chilled out body stone it is not at all psychoactive & is always at the expense of THC since they have the same precursor CBG. Hope this helps a little!

Making medicine, Chechero


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## theexpress (Jan 25, 2011)

925Grow'N said:


> theexpress, I love how your signature says "10th degree blackbelt in soil cultivation" I used to do tae kwon do and it brought me back in a funny way.


nice let me hear your kiyat... or h/e you spell it.!!


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## Brick Top (Jan 25, 2011)

theexpress said:


> well in that case i like to harvest "late" hahahahahahaha


If that is what you prefer, than that is what you should do. You just should never tell someone that what you do equates to harvesting at peak levels of potency. 

I have no problem with anyone harvesting in a way that will get them what they prefer the most. I only have a problem with if what they do is not harvesting at peak potency but they tell others that it is and that it is what others should do too.


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## theexpress (Jan 25, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> If that is what you prefer, than that is what you should do. You just should never tell someone that what you do equates to harvesting at peak levels of potency.
> 
> I have no problem with anyone harvesting in a way that will get them what they prefer the most. I only have a problem with if what they do is not harvesting at peak potency but they tell others that it is and that it is what others should do too.


i dont agree with peak potency being when its fully cloudy......... i find that high goes away fast..


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## jcommerce (Jan 25, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> That is definitely true in the case of a pure sativa or one that is highly predominantly sativa. Maybe it is true about more or even all strains, but I am not able to say for sure.
> 
> Most growers like a singular 'how to,' a singular, 'this is right,' 'this is correct' answer or method for everything grow related. In some cases there are singular answers, but in others there just aren't. Plus for as long as people have grown there has really been only highly limited actual scientific research done about some aspects of growing and much of what has become considered to be knowledge and fact is nothing more than the opinions of basement and closet and spare room and garage and attic and back yard growers and in reality their self formed beliefs, which are nothing more than opinions, are anything but factual or true knowledge.
> 
> It is time for growers to accept that the opinions they read or were told and accepted as being facts are anything but factual and that they need to rethink what they do if they want the best they can get.


However, there is actual, scientific study going on now more than ever...and whereas I would have been apt to question something's validity 10 years ago, I tend to trust more in tests done just yesterday. The advancements in technology from one decade to the next are astounding. People are paying much more attention to pot these days...and as towns, cities, states all begin to decriminalize and/or legalize, they're going to have to have some scientific backing when they start making more and more laws about regulating it.


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## theexpress (Jan 25, 2011)

lol bricktop how many times have you heard someone say "hay this looks like its been grown too long"? ive never heard that.. ive heard "man this bud is premature" plenty though


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## Brick Top (Jan 25, 2011)

Chechero said:


> There is a singular truth we just never discover it all at once there is usually a refining process.



In the case of there being an exact perfect singular point in time to harvest for every single strain, I do not know if that does or ever will exist. Between the differences in landrace strains from around the world all evolving in different conditions and environments combined with massive number of man-made crosses There might not be a singular precise moment when harvesting any and ever strain would result in peak THC levels being achieved. Maybe there is but I learned long, long ago that a pure sativa when harvested when most trichomes were clear and roughly 5% to 10% had turned milky/cloudy gave the most potent high but harvesting some other strains, sativa/indica crosses, the same way would give a potent high but a short lived high that told me there were still to many precursors and that is why I waited until most trichomes were milky/cloudy with about 5% to 10% amber. Later I read that was the way to go so I have stuck with it. If new research proves what I stumbled across and then later read about to be wrong and clear is cool then I will give it another go for the types of strains it did not seem to work as well on as it did with a pure or very nearly pure sativa.



> *Now we are discovering that amber might be too late.*


Now there is proof of that, but some of us discovered it ages ago, we just did not have scientific proof to support what we said.


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## solosmoke (Jan 25, 2011)

have to say ,i been doin this for 20yrs and Brick Head i learn more an more from you thnx vm for info should be chargeing lol but +REP bud
OUTside that is new to this indoor


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## Chechero (Jan 25, 2011)

80mg said:


> Not to be rude....but you can't inject THC. THC is an oil that is NOT water soluble. I call bullshit.
> 
> Source: Was a addict for 5 years. You named it, I injected it.


You can inject THC in it's crystalline form. The cannabinoids for many studies being conducted around the world are provided by a lab in Frankfurt Germany called www.thc-pharm.de I encourage you to click the link that reads "Produktatalog" then on the left under Categories click "Chemicals" then finally click on "Cannabinoids" you will see that they have 99% pure crystalline THC. Also take a look at this study showing them inject the test subject with THC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cAFRAX3Gs

Making Medicine, Chechero


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## Chechero (Jan 25, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> If new research proves what I stumbled across and then later read about to be wrong and clear is cool then I will give it another go...



The spirit of learning is why we are all here! And yeah many cultivators like yourself were doing things right just going on instinct~

Making medicine, Chechero


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## jesus of Cannabis (Jan 25, 2011)

I like mine a little mroe heady and I harvest a 10% amber, just when it becomes noticeable.


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## Brick Top (Jan 26, 2011)

Chechero said:


> The spirit of learning is why we are all here! And yeah many cultivators like yourself were doing things right just going on instinct~
> 
> Making medicine, Chechero


When I began to grow there were no books on how to grow cannabis. The Internet and sites like this had never even been imagined. There were no seedbanks where professional genetics could be purchased. You had to grow by the seat of your pants, so to speak. 

The biggest early break I had in regards to growing came from meeting a guy I always refer to as 'the old hippie.' He wasn't really old, he was just enough older than me to seem old, that and he looked like Jerry Garcia and just looked older than he was. I worked evenings and weekends in a gas station and he used to come in driving a 48 Chevrolet. I did not know how to roll a joint yet and one evening I had forgotten my pipe and my friend who worked with me and I wanted to get high. 'The old hippie' came in and I figured he had to get high so I asked if he would roll a joint for me. He not only did but he taught me how and ever since I could roll with the best of them. In return for his help I gave him a dozen 2-liter bottle of 7-Up that we would give away one with every 10 gallons of gas. He felt he should give me something in return so he gave me a bud and it turned out to be the first sensi I ever saw/smoked. 

When he came back in the next time I asked him about it and basically he took me under his wing and taught me what he knew. It was late 1972 and he had built his own hydro setup and he knew to separate males from females and he had a microscope and looked at things I had never heard of before, things that later I learned were called trichomes, and had a theory about how their coloration related to different levels of potency and when to harvest. The guy was decades ahead of anyone else I knew at the time. 

Much of what he taught me later did turn out to be fact, though not all of it did, but it was mainly him that got me thinking more and paying closer attention to things and spotting the correlation between certain things. He taught me how to connect the right dots rather than the wrong dots, for the most part anyway. 

Now today many of the things that he taught me, and the few things of his that I slightly fine tuned or polished, along with things others we knew learned through trial and error and then did are proven facts, but oddly many people today either choose to ignore them or inexplicably in this day and age somehow unaware of them. 

There is little to no reason or need to play connect the dots in this era. What is known to be true is just that, true, and what dots are left to be connected are on a level that they will never be able to successfully and accurately be able to be connected in a basement or a closet or an attic or a store room or a spare room or a garage or in a green house or in a backyard and instead will only be able to be accurately connected in high tech labs.

That is why I am always amazed by the degree of refusal of facts by so many and their belief that experimentation will discover something new and amazing. 

In all the years I have spent on sites like this reading about some 'new experiment' or some fad or voodoo growing technique that people go on and on about and call new and modern, the only one I can say I do not recall knowing to have been tried decades in the past is growing a plant upside down. 

'The old hippie' and some other growers I knew wore out their library cards checking out books on horticulture and would read them cover to cover and tried various things to see what seemed to equally apply to cannabis plants, which turned out to be almost everything. Various training/shaping methods for ornamental plants were tried and the same basic techniques that many years later were given pot growing names were tried. 

Some were impractical at the time because most growing was done outdoors due to indoor setups being very crude by today's standards and the crude indoor setups held back the degree of success of some methods, but the various methods of growing that are the norm today were in almost every case attempted and some with an acceptable enough degree of success that some growers would repeat them from time to time, sometimes often. 

As much as the younger growers of today will never believe it, when it comes to growing there really isn't anything new under the sun. The only real difference is some things are practical too do now when they were not in the past. Due to advancements in indoor growing equipment ideas of the past that were impractical now are successful and commonly practiced growing methods. But the same things were thought up and the same things were tried ... it is just that most were abandoned by most growers due to not being practical at the time. 

The modern mind is really not any more inventive or creative than minds of the past. The main difference is found in what people today have to use, what they have to work with that makes very old ideas that are believed to be new, now practical to do. 

While not about growing consider the following as an example of the creativity of the human mind in the past, how inventive it could be many, many years in the past. In 1784 Benjamin Franklin had the idea of paratroopers. Considering that even just manned flight was still pretty far off in the future that was some pretty inventive and creative and advanced thinking. 

*"Where is the prince who can afford so to cover his country with troops for its defense, so that ten thousand men descending from the clouds might not, in many places, do an infinite deal of mischief before a force could be brought together to repel them?" * *Benjamin Franklin in 1784*



In 1784 Benjamin Franklin had the idea of paratroopers. Considering that manned flight was still pretty far off in the future that was some pretty inventive and creative and advanced thinking for the time. All that was lacking was the ability to carry out the thought. Growing has been similar in that just about everything, if not everything, that is allegedly thought up today was actually thought of long ago but either unable to be done or in some cases found to be impractical to do due to limitations of what growers had to work with at the time. 

The impractical became practical as equipment advancements were made, and some were still found to be impractical, or at least not successful enough to use them, but what is actually left to be learned will take high educated highly skilled researchers with high tech equipment, not kids in basements and closets etc. who believe they have minds that are more inventive or creative than that of anyone from the past. 

Rather than play mad Doctor Ganjastein in their basements while believing they will discover something new they should instead spend their time learning all the things they know little to nothing about that have already been proven to be factual and then put that information to use and make the most of it and as modern research discovers more facts then add them to their base of knowledge and put them into use.


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## theexpress (Jan 26, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> When I began to grow there were no books on how to grow cannabis. The Internet and sites like this had never even been imagined. There were no seedbanks where professional genetics could be purchased. You had to grow by the seat of your pants, so to speak.
> 
> The biggest early break I had in regards to growing came from meeting a guy I always refer to as 'the old hippie.' He wasn't really old, he was just enough older than me to seem old, that and he looked like Jerry Garcia and just looked older than he was. I worked evenings and weekends in a gas station and he used to come in driving a 48 Chevrolet. I did not know how to roll a joint yet and one evening I had forgotten my pipe and my friend who worked with me and I wanted to get high. 'The old hippie' came in and I figured he had to get high so I asked if he would roll a joint for me. He not only did but he taught me how and ever since I could roll with the best of them. In return for his help I gave him a dozen 2-liter bottle of 7-Up that we would give away one with every 10 gallons of gas. He felt he should give me something in return so he gave me a bud and it turned out to be the first sensi I ever saw/smoked.
> 
> ...


 man we need to find u a date


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## Brick Top (Jan 26, 2011)

theexpress said:


> man we need to find u a date



If you visited a different thread where I explained my most recent relationship you would know that I no longer date. When I feel the itch I visit www.erosguide.com and 'order takeout.'


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## rockbud (Jan 26, 2011)

theexpress said:


> i dont agree with peak potency being when its fully cloudy......... i find that high goes away fast..


i like that for daytime smoke..u can smoke..then an hour later u can go on a job interview..or something important..lol!


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## theexpress (Jan 26, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> If you visited a different thread where I explained my most recent relationship you would know that I no longer date. When I feel the itch I visit www.erosguide.com and 'order takeout.'


hahahahahahahahaha your the shit man.........


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## Brick Top (Jan 27, 2011)

> *Originally Posted by Brick Top  * *If you visited a different thread where I explained my most recent relationship you would know that I no longer date. When I feel the itch I visit www.erosguide.com and 'order takeout.'*





theexpress said:


> hahahahahahahahaha your the shit man.........



Wham bam thank you ma'am is my 'dating life.'

You do realize why guys like me will pay for an 'escort' rather than date and have a relationship, don't you?

It's not for the sex .... it's so they will LEAVE right after sex.


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## GutterGravy (Jan 27, 2011)

how expensive ?


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## Brick Top (Jan 28, 2011)

GutterGravy said:


> how expensive ?


If that was directed at me and my form of 'dating,' it depends on the girl and if it is incall or outcall, and various other things too. If you become something of a regular and tip well and treat them well, a dinner 'date' along with the rest now and then you can build something of a rapport with some and for a bit more they will come to your home, they may spend the whole night if you wish or a weekend if you wish. Nothing is for free but if a regular and you treat them well some will give you a break on some things. 

An example of a first time visit could be .. one hour incall .... around $250.00 to $400.00 depending on the girl. An hour of outcall ... around $350.00 to $500.00, again depending on the girl and if you want anything a particular girl might consider optional, like 'greek.'

If someone has the money and is willing to spend it for the price of a first class plane ticket plus anywhere from about $10,000.00 to $20,000.00 you can have an actual porn star spend a weekend with you, or if you are a high roller you might take her to Vega or on a trip to Europe, but those sort of things would really add up when it comes to money. You have to pay for their time and they will promise to make you really happy later if you purchase them the Gucci purse they spot in a store window as you pass by. They will try to bleed you white but the more they get from you the more they give to you. 

I have never even thought about such an experience but one of my friends that is very wealthy has done it a few times and said it cost him an arm and a leg but it was, in his opinion, worth every penny.


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## NW Marijuana (Jan 28, 2011)

When do you think i should harvest these. The pics are from a day or two ago. link : https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/403904-trichomes-two-days-until-harvest.html


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## Brick Top (Jan 28, 2011)

NW Marijuana said:


> When do you think i should harvest these. The pics are from a day or two ago. link : https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/403904-trichomes-two-days-until-harvest.html


While the pictures were pretty good I could only make out one trichome that appeared to be light amber. Wait until you have about 5% light amber and no more than 10% light amber.

Check them daily, maybe even twice a day, and check out the post I left in your thread about a period of darkness before harvesting. Someone had mentioned 48-hours but I gave a little more info about it should be done. If you decide to not give them an extended period of darkness you want to harvest before your lights come on the day you harvest, so if say you check them right before lights out and you feel they are ready, manually turn off your timer or unplug your light(s) and then harvest the following morning or after their normal length period of darkness .. but at least consider the extended period of darkness before harvesting.


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## rockbud (Jan 28, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> While the pictures were pretty good I could only make out one trichome that appeared to be light amber. Wait until you have about 5% light amber and no more than 10% light amber.
> 
> Check them daily, maybe even twice a day, and check out the post I left in your thread about a period of darkness before harvesting. Someone had mentioned 48-hours but I gave a little more info about it should be done. If you decide to not give them an extended period of darkness you want to harvest before your lights come on the day you harvest, so if say you check them right before lights out and you feel they are ready, manually turn off your timer or unplug your light(s) and then harvest the following morning or after their normal length period of darkness .. but at least consider the extended period of darkness before harvesting.


? for u bricktop...does the darkness before cut work with all strains?ive heard its a myth..or only works with some strains?i did it my first grow..noticed the hairs got really red..but the tris stayed the same..this was on a deiselryder auto grow?


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## Brick Top (Jan 28, 2011)

rockbud said:


> ? for u bricktop...does the darkness before cut work with all strains?ive heard its a myth..or only works with some strains?i did it my first grow..noticed the hairs got really red..but the tris stayed the same..this was on a deiselryder auto grow?


I have never grown and auto-flowering strain, and I never will, so I do not know any specifics about them, but in general there will always be some increase in THC levels even if only minor. Considering what people pay for their genetics and all the cash they put into their setup and then what they pay for various fertilizers and additives all to try to squeeze every last bit of potency out of their genetics, then why not also do something that is simple and free, something that only requires that you do nothing but wait 72-hours and that does not cost you a single penny to do?


*"The Stichting Institute of Medical marijuana (SIMM), the first company to sell marijuana through the pharmacies of Holland, has been investigating the medical possibilities of cannabis, together with TNO laboratories and the University of Leiden.

One of their discoveries has been that to keep the ripe plants in the dark before harvesting could increase their potency.SIMM&#8217;s growers separated a crop of mature plants, harvested half of them and kept the other half in absolute darkness for 72 hours before cutting and drying. Analysis of the resulting dried buds showed that some varieties had seen an increase of THC of up to 30%, while CBD and CBN remained the same."*


If you try it and only get say a 2% increase or a 7% increase or an 11% increase of a 15% increase or maybe only a 19% increase rather than a full 30% increase wouldn't it still be worth doing?


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## rockbud (Jan 29, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> I have never grown and auto-flowering strain, and I never will, so I do not know any specifics about them, but in general there will always be some increase in THC levels even if only minor. Considering what people pay for their genetics and all the cash they put into their setup and then what they pay for various fertilizers and additives all to try to squeeze every last bit of potency out of their genetics, then why not also do something that is simple and free, something that only requires that you do nothing but wait 72-hours and that does not cost you a sido? very true..wudnt hurt to try again..problem is i have no where to put them in the dark..my grow room is a walk in closet..with a 3x3 flower space..and a 2x4x3 veg space..seprated by panda plastic..i have a perpetual grow going..have to keep them in there at all times...cuz of smell..dont have a place to keep it that it will be dark..wat to do?
> 
> 
> *"The Stichting Institute of Medical marijuana (SIMM), the first company to sell marijuana through the pharmacies of Holland, has been investigating the medical possibilities of cannabis, together with TNO laboratories and the University of Leiden.
> ...


 very true..wudnt hurt to try again..problem is i have no where to put them in the dark..my grow room is a walk in closet..with a 3x3 flower space..and a 2x4x3 veg space..seprated by panda plastic..i have a perpetual grow going..have to keep them in there at all times...cuz of smell..dont have a place to keep it that it will be dark..wat to do?


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## tapper (Mar 4, 2011)

I have a sativa that has gone from all clear trichomes to nearly all cloudy, and another sativa next to it in another pot that is still at the all clear trichome stage. Is it possible that as trichomes go from clear to cloudy to amber the plants are still producing some CBD? What I'm saying is that if you harvest when trichomes are mainly clear might you be missing out on the full level of CBD production?


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## quartergoat (Mar 4, 2011)

rockbud said:


> very true..wudnt hurt to try again..problem is i have no where to put them in the dark..my grow room is a walk in closet..with a 3x3 flower space..and a 2x4x3 veg space..seprated by panda plastic..i have a perpetual grow going..have to keep them in there at all times...cuz of smell..dont have a place to keep it that it will be dark..wat to do?


I thought about using a black garbage bag over the top.


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## rockbud (Mar 4, 2011)

that mite work..but it wud have to be pretty thick..light leaks thru garbage bags..but if u cud find something like that..thick enuff..then mabe ur on too something!


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## newguy09 (Mar 4, 2011)

bump...........


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## Plebscrubber (Mar 4, 2011)

clear = not ready
cloudy = up high
amber = down stone - couch lock


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## nowaysecret (Apr 27, 2011)

i would like to thank bricktop. i dont expect to be assassinated by a grammar nazi. im not trying to get a distinction. im too cbn'd to write properly. i am happy that my question has been answered. where has that happy high gone, that complex mental rush/ euphoria. brick top just let me know. it degraded into an ugly amber mess. i think some people are threatened by bricktops level of knowledge. maybe because knowledge is power your making them feel weak. i too sleep walked into the 50/50 situation. yield is nothing to me. i can do a miracle with 600w and 1.2m. but qaulity is essential. due to the excellent scientific research that brick top has presented, i think only a fool would shy away from these facts. it doesnt matter what you decide to do. but dont get angry with bricktop for just showing the facts. i personally found it groundbreaking. i was convinced that cbn was the holy grail of cannabinoids. it seems i was mistaken. i like the phrase fake body stone. it makes a lot of sense. it feels more like stupidity. if you want sereous couchlock get some heroin! i wanna get high man.


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## growMEsome (Jul 30, 2011)

i think i'll take a scientist word over a ex [email protected] that being your reason for saying a study done by ppl with college degrees is bullshit...because you were an addict...sounds like you still are


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## ITEMnine (Mar 17, 2012)

just read this entire thread and found it to be pretty funny. i have harvested all cloudy with 5% amber before and i did not like it. i usually go for about 20 percent amber and i get a great head and body high that lasts for a long time. i don't understand why brick has to call it a "fake" body buzz... when you tell people that the high that they try to achieve through all of their years of smoking is "fake" you kind of have to expect them to disagree lol. 
maybe that is why people actually smoke the stuff in the first place... to achieve that locked feeling and not the short term uppity feeling.
you can't call it a fake high just because it does something for them that you don't like. to each his own.


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## Rumple (Mar 17, 2012)

I like to flush at 10% amber. Even at 10% amber I see quite a few clear trichomes scattered about, so by the end of the flush the amount of amber has doubled and all the clear ones have gone to milk. This gives the best effect (according to everyone who has tried it) for the strain I grow. If it was my first harvest of a new strain, I might take plants at different dates to test for best effect.


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## charles lewis (Oct 4, 2014)

This was a nice read. I think when brick top say fake he means that scientifictly its not the body stone of natural cbd. It still works but aint the same shit.


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## Esdreel (Oct 5, 2014)

https://www.rollitup.org/t/harvesting.841695/
I got a bunch of tranquilizers that lets you sleep all day, no strength to do anything.


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## S'Manta (Oct 18, 2014)

Wow, an oldie but a goodie.


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## dals09 (Nov 6, 2016)

i know im pretty late, but its the best thread i ever read. 

Bricktop you are a cannabis genius, and you completely redefine the way i will harvest my weed in the future. 

In fact, i join this forum only to thanks you a bunch  I got 3 big plants right now, with 95/5% cloudy/amber. I will harvest tm morning.


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## ismann (Nov 7, 2016)

I thought CBD wasn't psychoactive at all? Most connoisseurs I know say CBD makes them less high. Like if they smoke a really high CBD strain and then smoke a super potent THC strain, they won't get very high.

I know it all depends on personal preference, but if I pick before 30% amber or so, the high doesn't last very long. Maybe 45 minutes. By letting my plants go to 50% amber, the high lasts much longer and though it's more stony, I don't feel tired unless I'm sitting down or it is at night.

Maybe more experienced people can chime in.


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## dals09 (Nov 7, 2016)

im not very experienced, but i think its all about personnal choice!


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## cat of curiosity (Nov 7, 2016)

dals09 said:


> i know im pretty late, but its the best thread i ever read.
> 
> Bricktop you are a cannabis genius, and you completely redefine the way i will harvest my weed in the future.
> 
> In fact, i join this forum only to thanks you a bunch  I got 3 big plants right now, with 95/5% cloudy/amber. I will harvest tm morning.


yes, old thread, bumped up to ignite yet another argument. but hey, whatever gets us away from this dumbshit election, right?


ismann said:


> I thought CBD wasn't psychoactive at all? Most connoisseurs I know say CBD makes them less high. Like if they smoke a really high CBD strain and then smoke a super potent THC strain, they won't get very high.
> 
> I know it all depends on personal preference, but if I pick before 30% amber or so, the high doesn't last very long. Maybe 45 minutes. By letting my plants go to 50% amber, the high lasts much longer and though it's more stony, I don't feel tired unless I'm sitting down or it is at night.
> 
> Maybe more experienced people can chime in.


cannabidol is active. it's degraded delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol. it produces sedative effects, unwanted for a good giggly high, necessary for a good sleepy stone. i will say this; it takes MONTHS to take a strain 'too long' to where it decreases effect. as the old saying goes, ''if you think it's done, wait another week''. most who follow this rule experience tremendous gains in final yield/weight, with some of the most potent stuff you can find.



dals09 said:


> im not very experienced, but i think its all about personnal choice!


it certainly is! but there are a few more old sayings that apply here... 'there's my way, there's your way, and then there's the RIGHT way', and 'there are a thousand ways to do anything, but only 87 of them work'...

it's always up to you, but if you are uncertain, experiment. harvest at different stages, find what works for you. the best part of having multiple (thousands) of strains is being able to find one that custom fits your needs. once you have your keeper/s, you're golden.


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## dals09 (Nov 7, 2016)

man... im not a scientist, or a experienced grower; i grow since only 1 year, but man im high right now. I harvested mu plants this morning, one of them has 100/0 cloudy/amber with a couple still clear. The potency is amazing. I can barely write

indica hybrids rules =°]


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## dals09 (Nov 9, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> it's always up to you, but if you are uncertain, experiment. harvest at different stages, find what works for you. the best part of having multiple (thousands) of strains is being able to find one that custom fits your needs. once you have your keeper/s, you're golden.


i 1000% agree


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## Madrigal (Mar 25, 2017)

Damn. I signed up to talk to BrickTop and now I see he's gone. 

This thread was great, thanks for the info. I would have liked to understand this sooner. If you are trying to help patients with medical marijuana, the drowsiness/disorientation from CBNs can be a very negative factor as it affects the desire to eat.


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## Cx2H (Mar 25, 2017)

Madrigal said:


> Damn. I signed up to talk to BrickTop and now I see he's gone.
> 
> This thread was great, thanks for the info. I would have liked to understand this sooner. If you are trying to help patients with medical marijuana, the drowsiness/disorientation from CBNs can be a very negative factor as it affects the desire to eat.


Well welcome anyway, hope you stick around.


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## fandango (Mar 25, 2017)

krok said:


> I'm trying to harvest an Indica plant (N.L.) at the correct time, I want a couchlock/narcotic high that can put me to sleep.
> 
> I'm starting to believe that harvesting at peak THC (cloudy) is what will give the best effect, and that this will give couch-lock effect if it's an Indica. So no need to wait for 50% amber before harvest. Correct?
> 
> I expect a lot of the cloudy ones to turn amber during curing, and that amber (when harvested) will turn into "shit" (overripe) during the cure.


Just like a tomato pick the first top buds @ cloudy heads,wait 10 days and pick another section(these will have more of a mixed color)do this into the cold season and compare your favorite smoke,as well as increase your yield bye 40%


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## tstick (Mar 25, 2017)

I'm one of the older forum members and I can testify to the fact that, back in the day, our weed was...._simpler_. There was good weed and there was ditch weed. Whenever anyone had the good weed, you could smell it as soon as the holder of it entered the room. And, yes, it did smell like a skunk. And, yes, when you smoked it, you got higher than shit with the true, warm, fuzzy body stone (intense!) as well as the enhanced color perception and the euphoric feeling that life was awesome.

But, it also recently dawned on me that the world wasn't the same world then....People were open to love. They weren't as suspicious. There wasn't the "win at all cost" attitude. Yeah, you might get the occasional person to flip you off (is that still even a phrase?), but there wasn't nearly as much of a threat that they might shoot you and empty the clip into your face. So, I do believe that our minds received the chemicals differently...in addition to the fact that good weed was universally much the same. If it had the smell, then it just went to reason that it was going to do the job.

People didn't used to describe a marijuana high in nearly so many ways. It was a kind of universal high feeling that most everyone knew the same way....as I described above. It wasn't that Sativas were "uplifting" and Indicas were "couch lock"...Rather, it was that there were a relatively-limited number of strains that were almost always grown to full maturity and often allowed to be pollinated and produce seeds...ripe seeds. So, by that measure, you always knew the weed was ready for harvest. There wasn't the questioning of trichome color or whether or not the plants were flushed or any of that stuff. It didn't matter if the trim job was immaculate...Pretty much all the details that are used to market weed, today, didn't even get a thought back then.

Sometimes I wonder if we didn't miss the boat with all the focus on just a few, isolated components of the plants -THC, CBD...Trying to breed plants to smell like lemons, etc...I think we might be short-changing ourselves in many ways because of all our selectivity. I feel like maybe the science has removed some of the magic. I wish there was a way to get back to some of those old, untouched strains, to really compare them instead of all us old guys telling wistful stories about back in the day!  Ah well...at least it was there for awhile....and so was i!


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## tstick (Mar 25, 2017)

For me, the evolution of getting high on marijuana was starting out on some Mexican weed that was grown (by today's standards) completely wrong!....and yet...it wasn't grown wrong at all! What I mean is, almost all the "lids" () were leafy and seedy and I cannot remember ever seeing a trichome or anything that sparkled on any of it....still got high with it, though...mmmmmaybe not the greatest high, but still pretty effective! Next, someone showed up with a bag of Colombian and it looked like golden, rock-hard turds and smelled like caramel and sweet earthiness....and when it hit your lungs it "expanded" (Expando!) and after you finished coughing your head off, you were so high, you never wanted to come down!

But, every now and then, someone would show up with "The Skunk" That was just a general term for it, anyway. I have no idea what the genetics were...but it was dead-on, roadkill, rotting skunk smelling stuff...When you smoked it, it tasted indescribable -not like the rotting skunk it smelled like, at all...but maybe something more along the lines of HEAVY over-ripe blueberries. It was thick, heavy, dense smoke that hung in the air. You couldn't get away from the smell, either. That's a big reason why people started wearing patchouli oil back then. It was about the only thing that would mask the skunk smell! In fact, I remember people coming up to me and smelling the skunk on me...I would say that I drove past a dead skunk on the way....totally believable!...right, mom? 

I am now convinced that the biggest reason we don't see that old skunk anymore is exactly because of the fact that you could NOT hide it. People would face going to prison for a long time for possessing marijuana back then...I think the idea that growers got was to breed out that skunk in favor of fruits and lemons and floral "prettier" smelling strains that could be masked. The real skunk went away because it was so incriminating!  But, man-oh-man...IF I could get that strain, I'd be a millionaire (at least), nowadays.


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## tstick (Mar 25, 2017)

Sorry to be blathering on and on...but I just remembered something I wanted to pose to all the newer generation smokers who might be slightly skeptical of another "well-back-in-MY-day" anecdote....

Just as an example....I'm sure most of us have had the experience of driving somewhere along some lonely highway or backroad, late at night....moving at a pretty fast speed....when, suddenly, you start to smell a skunk.....and you're car is moving down the road for maybe a mile or two before the stench finally starts to dissipate a bit! I always marvel at the "stickiness" of those molecules that hang in the air and form an invisible "mist" in the air that will stick to anything in the vicinity. Even that quick exposure to those airborne molecules is enough to "mark" you!

IF people were to grow the real skunk strain in a commercial greenhouse, the odor of that greenhouse would be smelled for miles and miles -in much the same way that real skunk-spray can be smelled...doesn't matter how fast you run through that smell...it WILL stick to you! Furthermore, one of my best buddies is one of the owners of a commercial grow op and even that entire range doesn't generate anywhere near the stank of even one of the old-school skunk plants. I would love to grow that strain, but if I did, then everyone in the vicinity would smell it and it would hang in the air for a long time...and I'd probably get broken into and ripped off.....so you now see the dilemma of growing such a strain!


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## dagwood45431 (Mar 25, 2017)

Brick Top said:


> CBD is what gives a true body stone, a true couch-lock stone. Since CBD has almost been totally bred out of modern strains smokers who like couch-lock have had to resort to giving up THC, throwing away THC, intentionally allowing the level of THC to drop as it oxidizes and become CBN so they can get a fake body stone from it, a false couch-lock stone from it. That is what amber trichomes actually mean. Amber is a sign of oxidized THC, THC that has been lost and transformed into a substance that is only mildly psychoactive.
> 
> Most couch-lock lovers refuse to accept and believe that fact, but nonetheless, it is a fact.
> 
> ...


Great, detailed information (and educational). Thank you!


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## dagwood45431 (Mar 25, 2017)

Brick Top said:


> Goodie gumdrops .... but if you want to make me happy name your first, or next, kid after me.
> 
> Wouldn't it be fun to have a little Brick Top of your own around the house?


I won't be having any more kids. Next cat or dog I adopt will be named Brick Top for sure!


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## Tangerine_ (Mar 25, 2017)

tstick said:


> Sorry to be blathering on and on...but I just remembered something I wanted to pose to all the newer generation smokers who might be slightly skeptical of another "well-back-in-MY-day" anecdote....
> 
> Just as an example....I'm sure most of us have had the experience of driving somewhere along some lonely highway or backroad, late at night....moving at a pretty fast speed....when, suddenly, you start to smell a skunk.....and you're car is moving down the road for maybe a mile or two before the stench finally starts to dissipate a bit! I always marvel at the "stickiness" of those molecules that hang in the air and form an invisible "mist" in the air that will stick to anything in the vicinity. Even that quick exposure to those airborne molecules is enough to "mark" you!
> 
> IF people were to grow the real skunk strain in a commercial greenhouse, the odor of that greenhouse would be smelled for miles and miles -in much the same way that real skunk-spray can be smelled...doesn't matter how fast you run through that smell...it WILL stick to you! Furthermore, one of my best buddies is one of the owners of a commercial grow op and even that entire range doesn't generate anywhere near the stank of even one of the old-school skunk plants. I would love to grow that strain, but if I did, then everyone in the vicinity would smell it and it would hang in the air for a long time...and I'd probably get broken into and ripped off.....so you now see the dilemma of growing such a strain!


I fondly remember my father growing "skunk" for yrs and yrs and it smelled exactly as you described. No sweetness...just straight up pungent skunk spray. Back then (70-80s) everything was grown outside and oddly, it never really smelled in the fields unless it was during a rough fall storm. I do remember it smelling up our barn when he dried it. Processing was quick and swift back then though. After he passed my brother found a foot locker with some coffee cans full of seeds he must've forgotten about. I doubt they'd germ and its hard to say what they are or where they came from so we just keep em for the sake of memories. 

I'll never forget that smoke or the anticipation family and friends had when fall rolled around. Oh, and then again at Christmas. He always had a few lbs stashed away for the holidays.


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## curious2garden (Mar 26, 2017)

dagwood45431 said:


> Great, detailed information (and educational). Thank you!


Try searching on that. It's a cut and paste from several sources and I don't agree with all of them. But my education is not in that field, @cannabineer what do you think?


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## tstick (Apr 1, 2017)

Tangerine_ said:


> After he passed my brother found a foot locker with some coffee cans full of seeds he must've forgotten about. I doubt they'd germ and its hard to say what they are or where they came from so we just keep em for the sake of memories.


Ummm....You never know! They have found seeds buried with mummies in tombs that are thousands of years old....and they sprouted! If you have a lot of seeds, it very well might be possible to bring a couple back -no kidding! They might be slow to grow for the first generation...but might gain vitality with subsequent generations. If I were you, then I'd be absolutely going nuts to try and see what happens!


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## BudmanTX (Apr 4, 2017)

tstick said:


> Ummm....You never know! They have found seeds buried with mummies in tombs that are thousands of years old....and they sprouted! If you have a lot of seeds, it very well might be possible to bring a couple back -no kidding! They might be slow to grow for the first generation...but might gain vitality with subsequent generations. If I were you, then I'd be absolutely going nuts to try and see what happens!


yeah, that's what happens every time I get a bag of seed from someone. I'll ask them where did you aquire all these, they would always say, I got them over time, here. That right there give me the giggles cause no matter what I put in that pot, its gonna be interesting and fun, most of all its gonna be a learning experience


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## ANC (Apr 10, 2017)

I have only ever grown 1 seed that had some kind of claimed ID. I can grow any weed nice with enough love. Sure, you get the odd popcorn phenos, but even they can make nice smoke if cared for.
Growing sativas with super long flower periods I am always impatient, but personally, like to wait until the flowers have red beards. Here in Africa, where the native growers, have done so for ages without the internet, so branding was never really a thing. You might occasionally hear someone has cheese, but it is mostly just claimed, all the good stuff is supposedly just chronic or cheese. I think it is the only names they know. But ask the older guys for red beard, and you'd likely get some nice Durban poison with a nice orange glow on those beards.

I don't even mind -non sensimila, even though I only grow straight girls myself.


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## Ilikebigbudsnicnnotlie (May 7, 2017)

fandango said:


> Just like a tomato pick the first top buds @ cloudy heads,wait 10 days and pick another section(these will have more of a mixed color)do this into the cold season and compare your favorite smoke,as well as increase your yield bye 40%


Is this true? I was thinking of chopping my tops and lowering my lights but thought maybe it would stunt the plant growth in lower buds.


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## fandango (May 13, 2017)

Ilikebigbudsnicnnotlie said:


> Is this true? I was thinking of chopping my tops and lowering my lights but thought maybe it would stunt the plant growth in lower buds.


I used this method on my outdoor crop,the growth rate there is super fast and the plant just keeps on putting out buds.
I find on my indoor plants maybe this is not the case...I cut only 1 time here,the lowers are pretty shitty in my experience


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## Ilikebigbudsnicnnotlie (May 13, 2017)

fandango said:


> I used this method on my outdoor crop,the growth rate there is super fast and the plant just keeps on putting out buds.
> I find on my indoor plants maybe this is not the case...I cut only 1 time here,the lowers are pretty shitty in my experience


I ended up chopping the tops and the bottom buds went crazy. Its been a little over a week and id say I got an extra 8th at the very least.


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## Spends alot (Jun 5, 2017)

Brick Top said:


> CBD is what gives a true body stone, a true couch-lock stone. Since CBD has almost been totally bred out of modern strains smokers who like couch-lock have had to resort to giving up THC, throwing away THC, intentionally allowing the level of THC to drop as it oxidizes and become CBN so they can get a fake body stone from it, a false couch-lock stone from it. That is what amber trichomes actually mean. Amber is a sign of oxidized THC, THC that has been lost and transformed into a substance that is only mildly psychoactive.
> 
> Most couch-lock lovers refuse to accept and believe that fact, but nonetheless, it is a fact.
> 
> ...


NIce copy and paste


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## Trichometry101 (Jun 7, 2017)

socaliboy said:


> The longer you leave it the stonier the effect, if you harvest it too early it will be more "uplifting".


No this is a lie put out by the industry that hates growing Sativas. Sativas now equate to weed lite in the legal market, because they are nothing more than premature indica hybrids. So weed that doesn't do its genetic duty (indica, sleepy) is sold as 'uplifting'.

All nonsense put out by the seed manipulators to sell "7-8 week" bastard of a thousand maniac premie strains that only look mature.

Clear vs Cloudy vs amber, I've only noticed the terps changing. How can you go by color, everything you do effect the colors of the plant.


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## danjac82 (Apr 5, 2019)

dals09 said:


> i know im pretty late, but its the best thread i ever read.
> 
> Bricktop you are a cannabis genius, and you completely redefine the way i will harvest my weed in the future.
> 
> In fact, i join this forum only to thanks you a bunch  I got 3 big plants right now, with 95/5% cloudy/amber. I will harvest tm morning.


Sounds like you were just looking for an excuse to chop early.


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## RunningAmok (Oct 23, 2019)

Hogg said:


> Agree with BrickTop's assesment about trichs...Most on this site will baaa..baaa...just like sheep repeating the Amber trichomes mantra...most dont know anything other than what they regurgitate from others.. Mostly amber trichs will egt you "dumb" weed with that messed up feeling not a good "High" feeling


I like that feeling shit head!


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## snowdog203 (Jul 25, 2020)

Brick Top said:


> CBD is what gives a true body stone, a true couch-lock stone. Since CBD has almost been totally bred out of modern strains smokers who like couch-lock have had to resort to giving up THC, throwing away THC, intentionally allowing the level of THC to drop as it oxidizes and become CBN so they can get a fake body stone from it, a false couch-lock stone from it. That is what amber trichomes actually mean. Amber is a sign of oxidized THC, THC that has been lost and transformed into a substance that is only mildly psychoactive.
> 
> Most couch-lock lovers refuse to accept and believe that fact, but nonetheless, it is a fact.
> 
> ...


Brick Top, OK, I'll give it a shot, I've got a plant with cloudy trichomes "Northern Lights Auto" 6' 3" height, that I'll harvest today, 11 weeks from seed. I get the feeling the seed sellers are pimping the plant heights on the short side, also I grow organic outdoors in soil, not potted.


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## TheDifferenceX (Jul 26, 2020)

Did we time travel back to 2011?


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## CannaOnerStar (Jul 28, 2020)

Spends alot said:


> NIce copy and paste


And also old info that has been proven wrong. CBD doesent make you couch locked, on the contrary it will clear up your head and make it easier to get off the couch. Its CBN that makes the couch lock thing, not CBD. CBD only removes the psychedelic effects of THC and thus weakening the high. It does relax the body, but its not a couch lock, but more like relaxed that doesent take away the energy to move like CBN does in combination with THC.


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## RunningAmok (Jul 28, 2020)

CannaOnerStar said:


> And also old info that has been proven wrong. CBD doesent make you couch locked, on the contrary it will clear up your head and make it easier to get off the couch. Its CBN that makes the couch lock thing, not CBD. CBD only removes the psychedelic effects of THC and thus weakening the high. It does relax the body, but its not a couch lock, but more like relaxed that doesent take away the energy to move like CBN does in combination with THC.


Finally someone clears this up!


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