# Heaths Flooded Tube Vertical



## Heath Robinson (Jan 12, 2009)

Welcome to my latest vertical grow, this time around I am using 4" soil pipe, a 4000 litre per hour pump, and one 600w bulb.
The internal diameter is 4 ft.

The build used 27 = 45 degree double sockets
4 = 90 degree double sockets
5 = Double socket pipe couplers
35 = pipe clips
and approx 8 x 3 metre lengths of pipe.

The idea is very simple, the feed from the pump enters the top tube and gravity lets the nutrients flow through the tubes until it returns to the res. The different thing about this design is the tubes are running in a floded state. I have set the level so the nutrient solution is about 1/4 of an inch above the bottom of the net pots.

This level controll is achieved by a simple dam built into a collar on each level, I have taken a pic of this simple level control so you can see how it works. To lower or increase the fluid level in the pipe is achieved by simply turning the collar which contains the dam.


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## Heath Robinson (Jan 12, 2009)

*Sorry for the poor picture but this collar controls the level in the tubes. *







*This is a pic of the dam inside the collar, as you can see twisting this collar alters the hight of liquid inside the tube. *







*Feed from pump into top tube.*







*Empty res showing brown pipe return, and the pump with bypass fitted.*







*And with the res full and the water returning from the vert.*






*Looking into the flooded tube. *






*
And finally wrapped in reflective material ready to load up!.*















Heath


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## AeroKing (Jan 12, 2009)

Wow, just fucking Wow. Have you considered adding Aero to the mix?


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## Heath Robinson (Jan 12, 2009)

Hi AeroKing,

Yes I have played around with Aero but for this grow I wanted a simple to use system, this has just one pump and one bulb. If the pump fails the plants will live for quite a long timeas the tubes are flooded. But never say never you might see an aero grow sometime in the future!.

cheers

Heath


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## AeroKing (Jan 12, 2009)

Heath Robinson said:


> Hi AeroKing,
> 
> Yes I have played around with Aero but for this grow I wanted a simple to use system, this has just one pump and one bulb. If the pump fails the plants will live for quite a long timeas the tubes are flooded. But never say never you might see an aero grow sometime in the future!.
> 
> ...


That adjustable collar idea is ingenious.

It _would_ be pretty easy to add some misters later, huh?

How far will the canopy be from the bulb?
Will you be cooling it?
600w seems low to me for a 4' area, is there a particular reason for not going 1000w?

Have you fathomed a support structure yet? (for the gigantic buds you're going to be growing in that thing, that is)

No additional oxygenation other than the waterfall?

Chiller?

Is that that self-stick insulation shit? If not, how did you fasten it?

Please forgive me for asking a ton of questions. I'm trying to design a similar system for a build coming up later this year. I really appreciate your insight!


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## Heath Robinson (Jan 12, 2009)

Good questions AeroKing,

I could add misters very easily but I wont as there would be little to no advantage and would make a simple design complicated.

The vert is cooled with a single room fan laid on its back pointing upwards I will show it in later pics.

The 600w bulbs are the most efficient thats why I use them. On this grow I will be using the Sunpulse Metal Halide bulbs throughout the grow not the one shown in the pics. The furthest point away from the bulb is 2 ft so obviously as the plants grow the distance to the bulb will reduce.

I have a couple of ways of supporting the buds I have hooks all the way round the top of the vert so I could tie them up or I can simply fit a screen or netting for them to grow through.

I am an old hand at these systems and recirculating systems so I have found that I dont need any additional oxygenation.

The room temps are at 72f so at the moment I dont think I will need a chiller to keep the nutrient temps low.

hope that helps.

Heath


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## Picasso345 (Jan 12, 2009)

That last photo looks like Lunar Landing Module or something. Very interesting!


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## AeroKing (Jan 12, 2009)

Heath Robinson said:


> Good questions AeroKing,
> 
> I could add misters very easily but I wont as there would be little to no advantage and would make a simple design complicated.


Many thanks, I hope you'll be around when I get started.

Not to take your thread off topic, but I'm surprised that you state "little to no advantage" of going aero. 

Flooded tubes would fall under the recirculating DWC category of hydro, would it not?
Everything I've read rates that as a mediocre method, with expected effectiveness less than aeroponic or NFT. I'm not trying to call you out or anything like that - I'm just intrigued that an obviously experienced grower such as yourself would make a statement like that. Is this based on experience?

Also, (back on topic), *can you explain the pump bypass and how you use it?*


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## Heath Robinson (Jan 12, 2009)

AeroKing said:


> Many thanks, I hope you'll be around when I get started.
> 
> Not to take your thread off topic, but I'm surprised that you state "little to no advantage" of going aero.
> 
> ...



Thanks *Picasso345*

nowthen *Aeroking*, you have obviously been reading the wrong growthreads then! lol. I can show plenty of my own examples from a single cannabis tree grow which weighed 42 0z to numerous grow threads vertical and sog.

To be honest I have never heard that fast recirculating DWC is a "mediocre method" I learnt to do my own thing and dont pay much attention to anything I read on grow forums. Anytime you read something, see if the grower can back up their claims because unfortunately there are lots of poor growers masquerading as experts on all the grow forums.

You can answer your own question by building your vertical and converting it to aero or Vice-versa and see which has the biggest yields. 
thats how I would do it.

good luck

Heath


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## Heath Robinson (Jan 12, 2009)

Sorry missed your last question, the bypass is very simple on the output from the pump there is a "T" one side goes to feed the vertical and the other side of the "T" returns to the res and has a valve fitted. When I open the valve some of the output from the pump circulates into the res this helps control the flow into the vertical and also helps with oxygenation.


Heath


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## fluffydog (Jan 12, 2009)

sorry to hijack your thread but can you checkk yout tree thread out please.thank you


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## AeroKing (Jan 12, 2009)

I see... believe me, I have no intentions of starting a pissing match about this, I just enjoy picking the brain of somebody with real-world experience vs. the hundreds of books, gardening sites, mfgs sites, forum postings... that I've read through. I am in no way belittling your tek, just trying to learn as always. So, what about that pump bypass???


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## FLoJo (Jan 12, 2009)

very nice work there Heath!

i have been anticipating this new vert grow since you had talked about it and of course am not disappointed!! i really like how it goes down level to level.. 

I was wondering though, wont the collar that adjusts the water level stop the water from traveling down the rest of the system leaving standing water in the pipes?

also, if it is only a few inches off of the ground (or so it seems) how does the bottom level drain back into the res? I am assuming the res shown is just with a sump pump with the float valve that pumps back into a larger res?

how many sites is it if you dont mind me asking? also what medium will you be using in the net cups?

EDIT: also forgot to ask your feeding schedule.. the reason i ask is because the only way i could see the collars not creating standing water is if it was constantly flooding instead of once every 2 hours or so..


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## Heath Robinson (Jan 12, 2009)

Hi *fluffydog*, will do!




Heath Robinson said:


> Sorry missed your last question, the bypass is very simple on the output from the pump there is a "T" one side goes to feed the vertical and the other side of the "T" returns to the res and has a valve fitted. When I open the valve some of the output from the pump circulates into the res this helps control the flow into the vertical and also helps with oxygenation.
> 
> 
> Heath





No probs *AeroKing* you must have missed my reply, I have quoted it for you.


*FLoJo*, yes thats the idea, I wanted the tubes to be full of fast flowing water. The collar I have shown in the pics acts as a dam and the water builds up behind and eventually flows over and down to the next level.

The whole system runs in a full condition the water level is toutching the bottom of the net pots. The pump runs 24/7 so in effect what we have is similar to deep water culture but the main difference is the fast flow rate and I never leave a gap under the net pots. 

The small res you see in the pics is the only res there is, because the tubes are full of water this means I can get away with using a small res.

It holds 86 plants, and the feed is at an EC of 1.0 and as I have mentioned the pump is running constantly so there is no standing water 


Heath


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 12, 2009)

awesome setup! cant wait to see it full! i was wondering why is the pipe that color?? we in the us have white , green , and black . i have never seen this color before is this common pipe work??


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## twistedentities (Jan 12, 2009)

subscribed!...i excited already! nice set up!


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## pillarize (Jan 12, 2009)

very cool subscribed


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## FLoJo (Jan 12, 2009)

very interesting Heath, so do you never change the res? just add nutes and water to it?

forgot to also ask, how do you think this system will compare to your other vertical systems? do you think it will outperform the shelving style like i have and the tree grow?


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## smartsoverambition (Jan 12, 2009)

i'm so suscribed to this thread if i was any more suscribed they would have to put me over to golf weekly.

definately sounds like a solid idea and cant wait to see the results, keep it up heath

may i inquire what strain you are growing?


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## quazzy10 (Jan 12, 2009)

Awesome looking setup, cant wait to see how it performs, subscribed


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## smppro (Jan 12, 2009)

Oh this is looking like fun


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## CapnBud (Jan 12, 2009)

heath good to see you again since the fall of hg420! because of your directions i got this ak47 going on in my modified waterfarm.

thank you somuch man


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## TOKEMASTERFLEX (Jan 12, 2009)

heath how much that room cost ya....i basically just wanna know the price for the pipe,fittings,and the hangars you used...i have everything else..also how big of a room was this in again...looks great.


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## Hedgehunter (Jan 12, 2009)

looking good once again heath !


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## holmes (Jan 12, 2009)

excellent work heath!


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## FunkyCamel (Jan 15, 2009)

Your setup looks intense...definitely keeping an eye on this one!


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## flamdrags420 (Jan 15, 2009)

Very cool setup
excellent quality on the build!


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## themoose (Jan 15, 2009)

there is only one word:

ILLMATIC

but seriously, good craftsmanship. From the looks of it this grow should be no problem for you, and hopefully we can anticipate some breeding or at least a grow out on some insane genetics.


awesome work ++rep


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## SayWord (Jan 15, 2009)

......wow.


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## beginningbotanist420 (Jan 15, 2009)

Wow... just wow.

-How easily do your think this could be scaled down to say a 2'-3' internal diameter or would that even work? 
-How tall of an area do you need to allow for this when the system is in full growth?
-Do you run the flood on cycles or do you just run the pump 24/7?
-And could you explain your collar in more detail? I don't _quite _understand how it works, how its adjustable, or what its made of...


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## smartbadguy (Jan 15, 2009)

subscribed! what kind of medium u be using? how tall is the plant gonna be?


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## beginningbotanist420 (Jan 16, 2009)

And...
-Would you say a 4000 LPH [~1000 GPH] pump is the right amount of power, not enough, or more than needed? 
-Would you say (1) 600w bulb is the right amount, not enough, or more than needed?
-And if either of these are more than needed, what is the minimum you could suffice with?

I am legitimately considering building this, but smaller to fit in my area. I was considering doing a 2.5 foot diameter, instead of 4; thinking about a 500 GPH pump thats considerably cheaper, instead of ordering an expensive 1000 GPH pump; and using a 400w, instead of a 600w.


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## Earl (Jan 16, 2009)

Can't wait to see this grow.
.


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## runsfromdacops (Jan 16, 2009)

WOW. now thats a room to be proud of. nice work.


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## beginningbotanist420 (Jan 17, 2009)

Come on Heath, where are you?


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## purplekitty7772008 (Jan 18, 2009)

scribed!!!

well this looks very interesting, never seen
anything like it, so I'm hopping on the wagon!!!


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## beginningbotanist420 (Jan 25, 2009)

bumpety bump bump


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## Picasso345 (Jan 25, 2009)

I'm afraid Heath launched his tinfoil covered spaceship and then crashed while circling the far side of the moon. I will say a little prayer whenever I look at the moon.


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## themoose (Jan 26, 2009)

I wonder if heath got raided for having a marijuana growing UFO in his house...-|


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## Blunted1 (Jan 26, 2009)

This is going to be good!


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## Heath Robinson (Jan 27, 2009)

*winkdogg420, twistedentities, pillarize, FLoJo, smartsoverambition, quazzy10, smppro, CapnBud, TOKEMASTERFLEX, Hedgehunter, holmes, FunkyCamel, flamdrags420, themoose, SayWord, beginningbotanist420, smartbadguy, Earl, runsfromdacops, purplekitty7772008, Picasso345* and last but by no means least *Blunted1.*

My apologise for keeping you waiting while Ireturned from the dark side of the moon! 

I ended up putting the cuttings into the system a week later than I had planned but am now back on track so the updates will be more regular.

now to answer a few questions,

The total cost not including the bulb and ballast was £500 for everything. The room it is stood in is 6ft by 9 ft.

The Brown pipe is standard soil pipe the type which is attached to the toilet and is usually buried underground.

The plant I am using is the Viking an old positronic strain which unfortunately is no longer available.

The plants should end up around 12 to 14 inches tall.

I change the nutrients every 2 weeks, I am using Vitalink at an EC of 1.

All the verticals I have built have the potential to hit the 2gpw mark, my last grow in the mini vertical very nearly did it so I am hoping I do it with this. This design could be easily scaled down to a 3ft internal diameter but I wouldnt reccomend going any smaller.


A 400l per hour pump is more than enough I run this one on a bypass to reduce the flow, one 600w is perfect for this system but it could easily run with 2x600w but It would benifit from another row. non of these things are set in stone and good results could be had from smaller dimensions and wattages.

here is my autocad which explains how the system and adjustable water levels are controlled.






and a picture of the res with the return pipe from the vert and the bypass on the pump.









*CapnBud * good to see the modded waterfarm is working so well for you keep up the good work






Ok here are the latest pics, the first ones are taken 6 days before the second set (Sunday) and they were swiched to 12/12 on the same day.


























*And 6 days later and 1st day of 12/12*


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## pillarize (Jan 27, 2009)

Very nice...i think i like this system.


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## Picasso345 (Jan 27, 2009)

WooHoo! Looking good!


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## FLoJo (Jan 27, 2009)

is that a MH bulb? and do you use anything to keep the air circulating in the space time continuum?


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## TOKEMASTERFLEX (Jan 27, 2009)

that makes my rooms and grows look like weak ass shit...i love how that room looks...great fucking grow....


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## themoose (Jan 27, 2009)

I think there is a lot of us who can say that unfortunately, although I am excited to see the walls of colas!nice job man.


TOKEMASTERFLEX said:


> that makes my rooms and grows look like weak ass shit...i love how that room looks...great fucking grow....


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## smartbadguy (Jan 27, 2009)

holly shit that is one crazy ass setup. what is your timmer set to be?


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## purplekitty7772008 (Jan 27, 2009)

I was wondering the update was...

anywho...

omfg, that has to be *the *neatest and prettiest
set-up I've ever seen.

it looks....well, like I said, NEAT and very clean. and the plants
look good as well.



They're growing pretty fast. This is the first grow I've seen
like this, so I am very interested.

I'm excited to watch this grow....


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## SlikWiLL13 (Jan 27, 2009)

amazing, simply amazing.


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## greenearth5 (Jan 27, 2009)

How many plants can you grow in there... what could your min/max yield be? How much is your water bill lol


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## Ahzweepay (Jan 28, 2009)

Amazing setup!! 
Will definitely be watching your progress


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## DaveTheNewbie (Jan 28, 2009)

ok so you say its a DWC (of sorts) and that the pump runns 24x7
how do you get air/oxygen in there?
everything else i get. i just wonder why the plants dont suffocate from drowning.


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## Heath Robinson (Jan 28, 2009)

*pillarize, Picasso345, TOKEMASTERFLEX, themoose, purplekitty7772008, SlikWiLL13* and *Ahzweepay 
* Thanks for stopping by 


*FLoJo*, the bulb is one of the new Sunpulse range of MH they are supposed to be the next best thing in growing so I am giving them a test. 

Really sorry *smartbadguy* I didnt understand the question 


*greenearth5*, There are 86 plants in there, I am hoping for 40+ 0z. Believe it or not it dosent use much water only what the plants use.

*DaveTheNewbie*, I didnt call it DWC because there are some major differences in this system which sets it apart from a typical DWC system.

The first is the water level will stay at the bottom of the netpot and will not have a gap as with DWC.

The second is DWC would typically have an airstone in the bucket to provide Dissolved Oxygen (DO) this system relies on the fast movement of the water through the tubes to provide the DO so there is no need for airstones airgap or other means of providing DO. The key to all my grows is the fast recirculation of the water.

hope that helps.

Heath


Heath


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## wurzel75 (Jan 28, 2009)

whats that wrapped around the pipe work, and did you only veg for 6 days. and in this system do you flower for the full term or is time shortened in this system. iwas `thinking of doing one myself but ive only got a 1m2 space any idea what i could do with this space..regards


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## purplekitty7772008 (Jan 28, 2009)

oh my sweet jesus...

86 plants. thats the biggest number of plants
i've seen anyone grow on here.

so you're hoping for 40+ oz,
lets do some math...

16 oz in a lb, 40 divided 16 is about 2-3 lbs.
and thats if you get your minimum goal. omg,

Now I'm really intrigued.


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## DaveTheNewbie (Jan 28, 2009)

Heath Robinson said:


> this system relies on the fast movement of the water through the tubes to provide the DO so there is no need for airstones airgap or other means of providing DO. The key to all my grows is the fast recirculation of the water.


awesome explains it all, i just wasnt sure that it would be enough.
people have got me all paranoid about not having enough DO where i need it but what you say makes me happy


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## smartsoverambition (Jan 30, 2009)

sweet, simply beautiful


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## merahoon (Feb 1, 2009)

Awesome set up! I'm definitly subscribed. Eventually I want to build a mini Sog vert set-up. My only question is.. Do you train your plants in any way? Or do you just let em' grow?


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## loki will kill you (Feb 2, 2009)

this is an awesome setup! +rep

i have some seeds thats mother was a positronic viking but cant find much info on them, do you know much about them??


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## josh4321 (Feb 2, 2009)

we need a update how are your plants doing


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## 2 Can (Feb 2, 2009)

Truly inspirational & very much better than the commercial verts I've looked at. I hope all goes accordingly. I bet there's a few of us here just itching to give your system a try... 

you Sir, are a legend. May I follow kiss-ass


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## greenearth5 (Feb 2, 2009)

Hell yeah,  Im one of them. Only mine is going to look like a water park 



2 Can said:


> Truly inspirational & very much better than the commercial verts I've looked at. I hope all goes accordingly. I bet there's a few of us here just itching to give your system a try...
> 
> you Sir, are a legend. May I follow kiss-ass


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## SpruceZeus (Feb 2, 2009)

Fantastic!!!
Now that is an economical use of space, and fucking sweet looking!
nice job.


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## SocalsFinestMMJ (Feb 2, 2009)

all i can say is WOW!! what a crazy setup.... how do you access the plants??? since they are all connected how do u get into the center for maintenance?? but cant wait to see this one go the distance


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## greenearth5 (Feb 2, 2009)

I think he uses a genie boom


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## natmoon (Feb 2, 2009)

That looks brilliant to me and my shitty cupboard space
I will also be watching


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## MEANGREEN69 (Feb 2, 2009)

very nice!! what is the size of that baby??? how tall tell u flower??


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## usualsuspect (Feb 3, 2009)

Grow design itself is amazing! but I' m still lovin the "Heath Cad tm" lol! Subscribed.....


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## headbandrocker (Feb 3, 2009)

Great room!
Suscribed!


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## Heath Robinson (Feb 3, 2009)

*purplekitty7772008, DaveTheNewbie, smartsoverambition, josh4321, 2 Can, greenearth5, SpruceZeus, greenearth5, natmoon, usualsuspect* and *headbandrocker*, great to have you all onboard for the show and thanks for all your kind comments.

*wurzel75*, The reflective material is insulation you put behind radiators to reflect heat, it comes on a roll and I stick it on with spray adhesive. The strain I am using only takes 7 weeks to flower. If you want maximum yield for your area I would suggest a sea of green using spacings between plants at a maximum of 12inch spacing.


*merahoon*, at about 3 weeks into flower I usually trim the bottom third of the plants which helps form better buds higher up the plant. In any case you should remove any weak growth.


*loki will kill you*, lucky you, the seeds werent created by me were they?

Originally the Viking was from the first Amsterdam seed bank called "positronic" which was owned by Wernard Bruining who was also the owner of the first coffee shop called "mellow yellow". unfortunately the Positronic seed bank closed down years ago (which is a story in itself) Wernard was and still is one of the top breeders. I collected the seeds in person from the seed bank years ago and have kept her ever since. She is a genuine 7 week strain with a high yield and old school smoke she used to be the no1 commercial strain in Holland.

A couple of years ago I created some S1's (which you might have) which were almost identical to the mother plant which shows how stable the genetics are. Some growers received them as freebies and all the grow reports were good, I hope some time in the future to create some more F1 or even recreate the strain as I still have a full packet of original seeds in the freezer. 


*SocalsFinestMMJ*, I can get into the vert where one level drops to the next level. When the system is empty there is loads of room inside as the plants get bigger I will struggle but by then I shouldnt need to get in.

*MEANGREEN69*, Its approx 5 foot tall, and they have been in flower for a week.

Ok here we are at* week 1 of 12/12* and i have just taken 100+ cuttings off the plants in the vert ready for the next round. sorry for the poor quality pics I used a borrowed camera.































Heath


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## SlikWiLL13 (Feb 3, 2009)

very nice, thanks for the documentation. truly inspirational.


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## smoke and coke (Feb 3, 2009)

im sitting in for the ride. looks great


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## wurzel75 (Feb 3, 2009)

nice one heath.
i was thinking about a system with ten plants surrounding a metal cage,with a internal diamater of 1metre(my grow space is 1.2m2 not 1m2) and drop my 600 vertically in the middle with the fan underneath like your other grow. and veg for 2 weeks training the plant through the cage. will this work similar to you mini vert grow,i dont really wont to do more than ten, proberly a caution or fine if i get caught,or do you think i should do them the normal way with the light and reflecter and just space them out underneath.which one would give the bigger yield?...cheers


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## smoke and coke (Feb 3, 2009)

wurzel75 said:


> nice one heath.
> i was thinking about a system with ten plants surrounding a metal cage,with a internal diamater of 1metre(my grow space is 1.2m2 not 1m2) and drop my 600 vertically in the middle with the fan underneath like your other grow. and veg for 2 weeks training the plant through the cage. will this work similar to you mini vert grow,i dont really wont to do more than ten, proberly a caution or fine if i get caught,or do you think i should do them the normal way with the light and reflecter and just space them out underneath.which one would give the bigger yield?...cheers


i would do like 6 plants surrounding the cage, more than that may be pushing it and they will be fighting for the light.ive seen some very impressive vertical grows uing 2 bulbs, one over the other and dropped down in the middle of the plants. i would say best suited for sativas due to the height of them, but will work for indicas as well.


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## loki will kill you (Feb 3, 2009)

Heath Robinson said:


> *loki will kill you*, lucky you, the seeds werent created by me were they?


i dont think so the guy i got them off was given a positronic viking clone a while ago and he crossed it with a sensi jack herer calling it valhalla jack, well if you ever have any viking seeds goin spare u know where i am! 
Loki


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## Butthead08 (Feb 3, 2009)

whats with the full name in your pics? seems a lil crazy, but what do i know. looks awesome man


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## mastakoosh (Feb 3, 2009)

just one more comment on how beautiful and clean this setup is. one day i will use this thread to duplicate this system.


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## murtymaker (Feb 3, 2009)

Really great stuff. I'm along for the ride. Nothing looks better than a perfectly clean reflective grow room. (Except when it's full of buds)


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## naturalhigh (Feb 3, 2009)

dude thats a sweet setup...so its amost like a NFT...except that film is now a flood....lol.... are you running airstones in the res..and is your pump running 27/4? very sweet setup..


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## growwwww (Feb 3, 2009)

this is modest material to wank over. Fucking amazing.


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## GypsyBush (Feb 3, 2009)

WOW!

Class V White Water DWC...!!!! That is awesome...!!!!!!!

I bet this will rock out 18" plants with 6' roots... hell yeah!!!!

I'll just pull up a chair and see if I can learn a thing or two...

Thanks for sharing....

Gypsy...


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## GypsyBush (Feb 3, 2009)

*


Heath said:



This is a pic of the dam inside the collar, as you can see twisting this collar alters the hight of liquid inside the tube.

Click to expand...

*


Heath said:


>



I see clearly how it works, but I am wondering if it will be a fixed level or adjustable....

From your info, it seems that you are able to twist and adjust on the fly....

but I can't help to think that it would be a sure source of leaks.... right?!?!

So, are they glued in and fixed or ...?

Thanks....


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## offgridgrower (Feb 3, 2009)

subscribing, and wanting to comment on hydro grows that use net cups, what is throwing me is if as in this system where the plants veg and flower in the same system, by the time your 4wks in flower how do you rotate the plants? do you not rotate at all and if so do you think theres any difference in doing or being able to do so? I only say this because currently i am in growbags and can and do rotate my plants while on the shelves but plant to convert to a coliseum which will make me choose what type of hydro to choose. And I think that I will be losing something if i am unable to rotate my plants, just looking to be better informed grower. I love your UFO btw!


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## Thundercat (Feb 3, 2009)

Very sweet grow, I've seen some of the others you've posted, I'd love to see the 42oz tree if you have a pic, or a link if its on here some where.


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## DubB83 (Feb 3, 2009)

Subscribed, now how do I fit it in my HomeBOX XL?


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## SOG (Feb 4, 2009)

impressive work Heath's 
subscribed!


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## robotninja (Feb 4, 2009)

Subscription and + rep!


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## Heath Robinson (Feb 5, 2009)

*SlikWiLL13, smoke and coke, mastakoosh, murtymaker, DubB83, SOG *and *robotninja* great to have you all call in, stick around as the next few weeks should prove interesting!. 


*wurzel75*, Your idea is well proven, Prawn over at planet ganja has some great grows using a screen around a naked vertical bulb. It is really a vertical scrog and yes they it is a high yielding method, good luck.

*loki will kill you*, No probs I made some S1's of the Viking a while back and gave them away as freebies. I will be making some more later in the year so keep your eyes peeled!.


*Butthead08*, do you mean the Heath Robinson watermark in the pics?, if so its to stop others using my pics and claiming them as their own which has happened in the past. 


*naturalhigh*, No there is no airstone or other means of oxygenating the water other than the action of the fast flowing water around the system.

*growwwww*, wank away! it should get mare sexually attractive when there is some bud porn to look at in a couple of weeks time! lol. 


Hi *GypsyBush*, I am running a fixed level but if I want to raise or lower the level of water in the tubes I simply twist the collar. There can be no leaks as the pipes are waste pipes with seals designed to be buried underground for years. The dam is totally enclosed so no light can get to it I. The picture will explain it better than words.

In this picture the parts of the tube which arent wrapped in silver are the dams which control the water level, if you look at the top tube you can see the pen mark which shows me where the top of the dam is. I simply twist this section of pipe to rais or lower the water level in the tube.







*offgridgrower*, No need to turn the plants, the energy the plants put into turning back to the light after you have turned is wasted you would be better letting the buds develop without turning the plants.

Hi *Thundercat* the Tree thread is here https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/101347-critical-mass-tree-grow-x.html

and here are a few pics to keep you others going until the next update!
30.6 Oz from the plant on the left and 43.8 Oz from the one on the right.


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## FLoJo (Feb 5, 2009)

loving it Heath! I think this will be your most efficient method yet!

I have been pondering over some designs using pvc and constantly running water... similar to the octogarden pvc setups and similar.. 

how do you plan on cleaning it out since you have the dams? just run h202 followed by enzymes?

EDIT: forgot to ask.. how did you make those damns? is it just a piece of plastic that is held in place by silicon?


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## Thundercat (Feb 5, 2009)

Very sweet man thanks, can't wait to see more, and I'm gonna definitely check out the trees


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## wurzel75 (Feb 5, 2009)

thanks heath
i did get the idea off prawn from P.G, but i couldnt log on to the site to get any advice and you are the vert king on here,one of prawns grows he turns the plants every 5 days but i see above you dont recommend turning as a waste of time.so do you think my best way would be to train the plant through the wire like the v scrog or just use the wire to keep the plant off the light and rotate every 5 days..your help is much appreciated,, and i will be watching this one all the through it looks the dogs..cheers


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## Thundercat (Feb 5, 2009)

Man just saw a picture of a 1 lb. bud from your tree! Insane man!!!!


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## TOKEMASTERFLEX (Feb 5, 2009)

heath robinson said:


> *slikwill13, smoke and coke, mastakoosh, murtymaker, dubb83, sog *and *robotninja* great to have you all call in, stick around as the next few weeks should prove interesting!.
> 
> 
> *wurzel75*, your idea is well proven, prawn over at planet ganja has some great grows using a screen around a naked vertical bulb. It is really a vertical scrog and yes they it is a high yielding method, good luck.
> ...


 
the tree style grow is what ive been doing for awhile....cant seem to get away from big numbers with just a few plants...but i wanna try this new vertical system so bad....


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## DubB83 (Feb 5, 2009)

How do you enter/exit the system for maintenance?


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## loki will kill you (Feb 5, 2009)

until then i shall stalk u! lol


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## merahoon (Feb 5, 2009)

Where can you purchase this pipe? Also whats the smallest pipe you think you could use this method with? I wan't to try and scale this down a bit in some way if its possible.


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## The Scooby Master (Feb 5, 2009)

Awesome grow Heath. I will be a student of this for weeks.

Since you dont use any additional oxygenation I was wondering if using a 90 degree bend to move the water down each level would help oxygenate the water?


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## purplekitty7772008 (Feb 5, 2009)

Hi *Thundercat* the Tree thread is here https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/101347-critical-mass-tree-grow-x.html

and here are a few pics to keep you others going until the next update!
30.6 Oz from the plant on the left and 43.8 Oz from the one on the right.










[/quote]


omgoodness!!!! is that the link to how you grew these monsters?

omg, just.....omg...


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## We Love 1 (Feb 7, 2009)

I'm sold! Subscribed!

Everyone and their mothers should have a system like this! 

Truly inspirational (setup)! 



RON PAUL REVOLUTION


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## Heath Robinson (Feb 10, 2009)

*Thundercat, LWKY, purplekitty* and *Welove1* thanks for calling in and for your comments.


Hi *Flojo*, its very easy to clean, the roots pull out in one piece and any bits can be swilled out into the res, or I can simply pull the ends off each run. I never sterilise the systems I run unless I have had a problem. If you keep the nutrient temps below 74f and circulate then the water will stay sweet. The dam is simply a piece of plastic held in place with silicon as you mention.


Hey *wurzel*, you would have a bigger yield if you use the wire as a scrog screen, there is no advantage to turning the plants it will reduce your yield. 


*Tokemasterflex*, I love growing the trees also, so I do both! Lol.


Hi *DubB83*, where the dams are built the system dips down to the next level, I enter the vert there its quite simple to do, I will give the plants a trim in a weeks time and after that I wont enter it again until harvest.



*Merahoon*, I am in the UK the pipe is available from all builders merchants and places like Wickes and screwfix. I would imagine it is available throughout the world as it is standard 4 soil pipe. You can use 3 pipe successfully but the trouble I had when using 3 drain pipe is I couldnt find fittings which were self sealing they had to be glued, if you dont mind gluing 3 pipe works well.


The *Scooby Master*, The action of the water flowing through the pipes has an effect like a waterfall as long as you move the water quickly enough there is no need to add anything to add more dissolved oxygen. Of course you can add what you like if you think it will help I post up these grows to encourage others to have a go and of course alter/improve on my designs if they wish.


Ok here we are at *week 2 of 12/12* everything is running smoothly and the *nutrient concentration is at an EC of 1.0 *


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## DubB83 (Feb 10, 2009)

Amazing, simply amazing.

Now I need to fit one in a 4x4 area! I really wish I had the time to take on this project.


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## FLoJo (Feb 10, 2009)

thanks for answering all the questions Heath, looking marvelous as usual


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## josh4321 (Feb 10, 2009)

you are my hero lol what are you using for food


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## GypsyBush (Feb 10, 2009)

Just Freaking Awesome...!!!

Congrats!


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## trouble9039 (Feb 10, 2009)

This method of growing is great! My buddy spent the money and got the colliseum before this tread was started and I was looking to change and get rid of my SOG! Big props to you Heath very nice design and function...


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## merahoon (Feb 10, 2009)

Thanks for the reply Heath. The grow is lookin great. Only 4 1/2 weeks to go.


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## greenfirekilla420 (Feb 10, 2009)

That is some crazy cool looking stuff man. I haven't ever seen anything like it. I stayed tuned to the critcal mass x2 grow so I can't wait to see what you can do with this.


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## TOKEMASTERFLEX (Feb 10, 2009)

*



Tokemasterflex

Click to expand...

*


> , I love growing the trees also, so I do both! Lol.
> 
> 
> > I am so seriously thinkin bout doin this....we shall see what the future has instore for TOKE


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## holmes (Feb 10, 2009)

hello
the sun pulse bulb that you are using, what is the kelvin rating?
how do you like it?


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## sparat1k (Feb 11, 2009)

what an inspiration heath!


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## holmes (Feb 11, 2009)

i knew i would get one of those.......but i really want to know about the bulb.. LOL


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## thcheaven (Feb 11, 2009)

Gotta say I am watching you! The set-up looks awesome!


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## MaryJaneNorCal (Feb 16, 2009)

anything new?


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## Heath Robinson (Feb 16, 2009)

*DubB83, FLoJo, GypsyBush, merahoon, greenfirekilla420, TOKEMASTERFLEX, sparat1k, thcheaven, * great to have you all here and a big thanks to you all for your kind comments.


Cheers *josh4321*, I am usinVitalink at an EC of 1.0.



Hi *trouble9039*, A while back I helped set up a Colli and to be honest I wasnt very impressed with it, they need quite a few mods to work properly, so I wish your buddy good luck with it.



*Holmes*, there is a full spectrum of Kelvin ratings of 3k, 4k, 6.4k, 10k, for different stages of growth. 

4K = Full Spectrum - SEEDLING / CUTTING

6.4k - Day Light - MAJORITY OF VEG

4K - Full Spectrum - LAST WEEK OF VEG
 
3K - Red Orange - MOST OF FLOWERING

10K - Uva Blue - FINAL WEEK.

I was running the 3K last week but have decided to change back to my normal growlux HPS as I was having too much growth and the budding seemed later than normal. I am running the Sunpulse bulbs on a bush grow and they are fine so it might just be that they arent ideally suited to vertical grows?.



*MaryJaneNorCal*, Yes!!! lol.





here we are at *week 3 of 12/12*, everything is running smoothly, as mentioned earlier I have changed the bulb for a Growlux HPS. 































































heath


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## GypsyBush (Feb 16, 2009)

First Class....!!!


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## holmes (Feb 16, 2009)

too much growth huh, good thing i asked...
best of luck

and what exactly did you not like about the colli?, 
what sort of improvements does it need?


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## OregonMeds (Feb 16, 2009)

Ok I've searched here since I joined looking for my next grow setup. I was thinking rotary, then I thought no vertical aero was the ticket but I think may be changing my mind here. This is sweet!
How long can the plants survive pump failure? 8 hours until someone gets home from work? I suppose one could run two pumps half the volume and not worry about it right?


May I ask how much all the large pipe and connectors would cost? (Not the resevoir or any small tubing but just the big stuff), and if you think the adjustable collars are going to be necessary after you have it dialed in?
(Wondering about doing this with smooth wall 6" plastic flex pipe with no joints at all?)


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## smoke and coke (Feb 16, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> Ok I've searched here since I joined looking for my next grow setup. I was thinking rotary, then I thought no vertical aero was the ticket but I think may be changing my mind here. This is sweet!
> How long can the plants survive pump failure? 8 hours until someone gets home from work? I suppose one could run two pumps half the volume and not worry about it right?
> 
> 
> ...


good questions. id like to here the answers. would the adjustable collar be needed to make it easier to drain the pipes. 
once you get the level dialed in, do you need to make minor adjustments or is it just good to go for the rest of the grow?
thanks


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## Hulk Nugs (Feb 16, 2009)

looking sweet man keep up the great work .... small space being used perfect....what about your veg/mother room do you have one ?


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## OregonMeds (Feb 16, 2009)

Just so you know what I'm thinking with the flexible 6" tubing, I'm thinking just a fixed spiral with foam plugs, no net cups, and fixed dams installed at ea plug hole so the water cascades over a series of dams down a straight spiral.

If that doesn't agitate the water enough, maybe some of the dams could have a shape to them that forces the water to take more air by rolling off the top of a bent edge and actually dripping instead of just flowing over a flat piece with dams further apart in the spiral so there's more of a water drop at ea level.


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## boonie (Feb 16, 2009)

whats the size of your rez


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## beginningbotanist420 (Feb 16, 2009)

boonie said:


> whats the size of your rez


And how often do you have to refill it?


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## Thundercat (Feb 18, 2009)

Awesome Heath, freakin awesome! lol


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## sparat1k (Feb 18, 2009)

Are you having to trim or train any of your plants? I'm curious if you're worried about hierarchical light blockage.


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## MCD (Feb 18, 2009)

Hi heath been reading through your critical mass and this vert grow for the last day, you really have everything dialed in to get the maximum. Inspiration man!

Im new to growing but been researching loads so im sorry if the questions sound daft

Iv just noted down a few questions if you dont mind me asking you

1. Doesnt the roots drown if the water is touching the bottom of the net cup.
2. How old are the clones when you put them into veg, do you need all the roots to be touching the bottom of the net pot for them to be able to feed or does the splash of the water reach them.
3. What medium do you use for the clones, do you then just put whatever medium your using in with the clay pebbles.
4. If all the water is constantly being re flushed round, how do you know when to add more water and more nutes, this one i dont understand. 
5. What is the outside dimensions of the setup and what shape is it, is it a box and then youve got the angles in the middle of the room or does the outside have the angles.
6. Do you use anything to extract to like a carbon filter, what about intake. I read that you have a fan at the bottom blowing up is this your intake.
7. Your room 6ft x 9ft with one 600watt, if you wanted to use 2x 600 watt what would be the best way to lay it out, what size would you want to go up to and would you place your bulbs under each other on a metal line or at the side of each other etc
8. I read that your hoping to get 2lbs/pw. If you changed the dimensions to something in longer length like 15ft long and 6 ft wide, would you still hope for the same amount of yield with the necessary amount of extra lights needed, if so how many 600watts would you think would go nice in a room that size.
9. Would Co2 be a good extra for this setup. What would be your best way of using it
10. When you say you change the nutrients every 2 weeks do get rid of all the old water and replace with new or just keep the old water and add more nutes.
11. How manys rows you got and what are the spaces between each one
12. Did you just use a holesaw for the net pot holes, did you drill these at a slight angle.
13. Whats a bypass on the pump
14. What would be the best method in terms of yields, growing them small and bushy or going for big colas. 
15. How long was they veging for before you put them into flowering.

Wow alot of questions, hope you done mind heath. 

MCD


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## smoke and coke (Feb 18, 2009)

MCD said:


> Hi heath been reading through your critical mass and this vert grow for the last day, you really have everything dialed in to get the maximum. Inspiration man!
> 
> Im new to growing but been researching loads so im sorry if the questions sound daft
> 
> ...


lol was alot a questions. you want him to go to your house and grow it for you. 
just kidding id like to hear some of the answer also.


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## doniawon (Feb 18, 2009)

subscribed .. i thought he answered most of that in this thread...


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## 2 Can (Feb 19, 2009)

LOL ... what about the cuttings? How to get 86 at a time? So many questions 

Heath, seriously... I've picked up so much info from your threads, I'm an expert without even doing it! Top man geez *doffs cap*


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## MCD (Feb 19, 2009)

Nope he didnt went through it twice.

2can how does he get 86 cuttings at a time??


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## 2 Can (Feb 19, 2009)

....I'm not sure but I think Heath takes his new cuttings for the next grow at 2 weeks into the 12/12 flower cycle and roots them in a seperate bubbler system.

I don't think this a perpetual system so how to go about getting the original 84 cuttings I'm still trying to figure 

My biggest grow is 3 full size plants so my knowledge of this style grow is pretty limited. I've got a m8 with some girlies and was thinking of asking him for 5 cuttings. If I grow them for a month, I should be able to get 80 odd cuttings from them ( I think  )


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## MCD (Feb 19, 2009)

2 Can said:


> ....I'm not sure but I think Heath takes his new cuttings for the next grow at 2 weeks into the 12/12 flower cycle and roots them in a seperate bubbler system.
> 
> I don't think this a perpetual system so how to go about getting the original 84 cuttings I'm still trying to figure
> 
> My biggest grow is 3 full size plants so my knowledge of this style grow is pretty limited. I've got a m8 with some girlies and was thinking of asking him for 5 cuttings. If I grow them for a month, I should be able to get 80 odd cuttings from them ( I think  )


i was being sarcastic mate i know how he gets the cutting 

How long do you veg your plants for 2can


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## 2 Can (Feb 20, 2009)

So far I've only grown from seeds, never tried cuttings. I've got 3 small grows under me belt, vegging all for 2 months, chucking the males out & then flowering for 2 months ... just like the book told me 

After seeing Heaths awesome setup it's got me wanting to give vert a go ( vertigo?? ... I aint afriad of no heights LOL ). I've spent the last month reading as much as I can and reckon Heath deserves an OBE for his sharing.

Starting from fresh the only thing I'm not sure on is how many mums it take to get 86 cuttings. I was thinking maybe 5-10 cuttings, vegging for 2 months with regular topping so they branch out. That should hopefully get 12 or so cuttings from each mum after 2 months of vegging. I'm a real beginner so don't really know about this bit.

Once system's up & running I take the new cuttings 2 weeks into the 12 hour cycle & won't need the big mums anymore. It'd take 6 months for my 1st harvest due to my lack of clones - that be right?


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## jeffisdreaming (Feb 20, 2009)

Wow, I'm so subscribed... Heath, thanks so much for taking the time to answer all these questions, it's much appreciated and it's so refreshing to see knowledgeable people willing to help others while getting nothing in return. I have all the same questions as 2Can does and I'm anxiously awaiting the answers... And I have a couple of my own...

1- i was thinking about a 4ft 6in by 6ft 4in  with 4 levels. Would 2 x 400watt work or would I need 2 x 600w and what would be the difference in yield? 
2- would i be crazy to put this setup in a hydrobhut and try to pull a grow like this off in an apartment in an urban environment? Can all that smell and noise be taken care of?


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## whoodi (Feb 20, 2009)

I noticed you said 600 watts are more efficient but I figured 1000 watts would be mroe penetration... i'm gonan grow some vertical trees. Should I use 600's or 1000's in a pattern?

Looking good as always, heath..


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## smartsoverambition (Feb 20, 2009)

coming along very nicely man


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## WhiteWilly (Feb 21, 2009)

Dude you should work for NASA.....or do you?


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## Otacon (Feb 21, 2009)

I've been lurking on RIU for a while now, and this is one of the most impressive grows I have seen. Good luck mate, I hope I learn something from you.


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## Heath Robinson (Feb 23, 2009)

*GypsyBush, Thundercat, smoke and coke, doniawon, 2 Can, smartsoverambition, WhiteWilly *and *Otacon*. Thank you all for your comments i hope you all stick with me till the end. 


Hi *holmes*, I didnt like how the coli was supposed to run drain to waste, or the amount of perlite you had to use i helped convert one to a recirculating system with an external res and it worked much better.


*OregonMeds* and smoke and coke, the plants would survive for many days in the event of a pump failure, the tubes are flooded to the bottom of the net pots so there is quite a lot of water in each tube. The cost for everything excluding light and ballast was £500.

The adjustable collars are there because I like to experiment and they allow me to run the tubes full or empty, they dont need to be adjustable though because the best way to run the system is flooded to the bottom of the pots. This could be done with a dam which wasnt adjustable. The secret is to recirculate the nutrients quickly and then there will be plenty of DO due to the water surface to air contact. If you want to run it as an nft system then there would be no need for the collars.


Thanks *Hulk Nugs*, I dont need mothers as the cuttings are taken from the plants in the vertical about two weeks into flower.


Hi *boonie* and *beginningbotanist420*, the res is quite small probably 10 gallon or something like. It is topped up automatically from the mains supply. If you couldnt do that then the res would have to be bigger.


*sparat1k*, yes I take off unwanted leaves and small weak shoots throughout the grow until about the 4th week of flower.


*MCD*
1, Not if you have enough Dissolved Oxygen (DO) in the system.

2, The cuttings are used in this grow were 3 weeks old grown in 1 inch rockwool blocks. I place them into the netpot and fill with hydroton. The water level in the tube touches the bottom of the net pot so there is no problem of them drying out.

3, 1 inch rockwool blocks.

4, The system is partially drained once a week and new nutrients added.

5, It is 62 inches external diameter and the same shape as the inside.

6, I always use a carbon filter to remove smells and so should you!. The fan at the bottom is to move the air around the grow. The intake is passive and I exchange the air in the room twice a minute whatever system I am using.

7, The best way to use 2x600w is to have one above the other, this vertical is designed to have another row so I can use 2 x 600w.

8, To maximise yield you have to surround the bulb, and the optimum internal size is 4ft so it would be multiples of those dimensions.

9, yes it would but it would also require a change in extraction and all the problems associated with heat build up. Remember that co2 is only any use when you cannot improve any other aspect of the grow.

10, The old nutrient solution should be drained no matter what system you use and new nutrients should be added. The reason for this is the plants use some of the available nutrients and leave others, over time if you dont replace the nutrients you would have a build up of the salts that the plants arent using. Your Ec meter would tell you that the ppm was correct but the nutrient solution would have high levels of the salts that the plants werent using so in effect you would starve your plants.

11, 4 rows 8 inch spacing.

12, Just an ordinary hole saw, the plants are vertical you could angle them by simply turning the pipe slightly.

13, A bypass allows you to control the amount of water that comes out of the pump. It is simply a tee with a valve, if you open the valve some of the output from the pump goes into the res instead of around the system.

14, growing them to fit the system you have put them in!.

15, 3 weeks as cuttings under fluros and one week in the system, normally i wouldnt veg in the system but on this occasion I did.

bloody hell next time try ask a few questions a week!!! lol.



*jeffisdreaming*, You could run 2x400w but they are very inefficient compared to the 600w. The smell is easily dealt with by using a good quality carbon filter which is rated higher than the extraction of your room. There is hardly any noise so that wouldnt be too much of a problem. but whether you should do it in an apartment in an urban environment or not would be up to how big your balls are! lol.


*whoodi*, You can use 600w or 1000 for trees, a good compromise is to have the 1000w as the centre bulb and the 600w on the outside.



Ok here we are at *week 4 of 12/12 *and the system is running great.


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## SayWord (Feb 23, 2009)

god damn thats unbelievable. great job heath


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## merahoon (Feb 23, 2009)

Lookin good Heath! Whats the expected yield?


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## OregonMeds (Feb 23, 2009)

Thank you for answering my questions, well and the way you take the time to answer everyones questions. 

I'd sure like a 1920x1080 image just showing the giant wall of weed like from the view of the bulb to use as my windows wallpaper... (You don't actually have to try to do this, it would require too much work and a tripod and may not even be possible to get much at that distance, I was just thinking out loud.) What I really want to do is just stand there in person.


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## pillarize (Feb 23, 2009)

What would happen if you added a mh light with the hps?

Great looking grow.


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## MCD (Feb 23, 2009)

Thanks for answering all my question heath lol 

True Legend 

Cant wait to see what the yield is


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## dutchfunkle (Feb 24, 2009)

Heath, I imagine you've reached weed baron status many moons ago,eh??? You're a fuckin beast and inspiration,much obliged!!!


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## Thundercat (Feb 24, 2009)

They look amazing man, I can't wait to see them covered in resin. Thats gonna look awesome!!


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## greenfirekilla420 (Feb 24, 2009)

Those look great Heath, I'll be sticking around to see what you get off them.


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## homebrew420 (Feb 25, 2009)

Looks like a modified NFT system. But an amazing one at that. Kudos to you and good luck.


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## Funkysmell (Feb 25, 2009)

Always a pleasure to watch you grow Heath!


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## purplekitty7772008 (Feb 25, 2009)

wow.

that is going to be a dank ass harvest heath.
This grow is frikkin awesome!!!


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## DubB83 (Feb 25, 2009)

merahoon said:


> Lookin good Heath! Whats the expected yield?


[Dr. Evil Voice]1 milllllion pounds[/Dr. Evil Voice]


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## merahoon (Feb 25, 2009)

DubB83 said:


> [Dr. Evil Voice]1 milllllion pounds[/Dr. Evil Voice]


Haha! Wouldn't that be awesome?


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## HappySack (Feb 26, 2009)

If you can't get the adjustable collars, use a ball valve.


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## pillarize (Feb 28, 2009)

should be an update soon


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## 9inch bigbud (Mar 1, 2009)

love your grows heath  its nut aka -Mr Green from over on shantibaba's. looks like another massive harvest on the way

whats up with the tree grows? LOL if anyone aint seen them seeing is believing trust me! amost 2 k.g plants under lights!

I can see you have been living in wicks for a few weeks, LOL I love wicks full of grow goodies! iv got rolls and rolls of the bubble insulation its good sh*t had the police hele out above my house a few times shining lights in the garden looking for criminals, never had a problem using it, and my grow is in the loft

look farward to update Heath


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## iloveit (Mar 1, 2009)

Hi there Heath Ive not heard from you In ages (the person who couldnt get those blueberry seeds to grow, you know the person who you gave out those sour diesel seeds to, the one with the 3 chamber cabinet...? Ahh never mind). Well since youve been gone youll be happy to hear that my last seed grew in to a mother plant & I took my first ever cuttings a couple of weeks ago. I even made some modifications to the cab even though Ive never used a power drill or jigsaw (inspired by you of course).
Anyway I can see your back with a new shiny setup, its looking great as always.

I have a few questions regarding you current grow the first one is about thae dam; I see that you have used an adhesive to join the semi-circle piece of plastic (which to me looks like it was once part of an aquafarm he he he) to the inner pipe, what is the brand & type of adhesive? As I need something which is water & light tight.

In post No. 114 you mentioned to "holmes" that you use different bulbs of full spectrum of Kelvin ratings, could you tell me which brands of bulbs you prefer to use.

Sorry for the long questions but it certainly helps me gain knowledge for my next grow, this is the last one: When it comes to nutrients how do you best identify or decide which set of nutrients will work best for your setup & how do you manage to keep the plants so nice & green & issue free? I Dont mean to be cheeky


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## iloveit (Mar 1, 2009)

9inch bigbud said:


> love your grows heath  its nut aka -Mr Green from over on shantibaba's. looks like another massive harvest on the way
> 
> whats up with the tree grows? LOL if anyone aint seen them seeing is believing trust me! amost 2 k.g plants under lights!
> 
> ...


Ahh we meet again , looks like we both very much enjoy Heaths grow journals.


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## 9inch bigbud (Mar 1, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Ahh we meet again , looks like we both very much enjoy Heaths grow journals.


Hello again *wave*. Heath uses the same nutes as me Vita Link good sh*t iv been using them for years now with exellent results. they are 2 part A+B each= grow and bloom. 

1/2 strenth hydro is 2mill A+B
for use on soil is the same 2mill A+B every other watering
full strenth hydro= 4mill A+B.

know your plants! because not all plants need the same.

p.s
sorry for jumping in Heath


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## iloveit (Mar 1, 2009)

9inch bigbud said:


> Hello again *wave*. Heath uses the same nutes as me Vita Link good sh*t iv been using them for years now with exellent results. they are 2 part A+B each= grow and bloom.
> 
> 1/2 strenth hydro is 2mill A+B
> for use on soil is the same 2mill A+B every other watering
> ...


At the moment Im using Biobizz grow for my mother plant which is in soil & ionic grow/bloom/boost for my clones which is in my "4 pot Atami Wilma drip system" (I think I already mentioned that in our previous conversation).
Speaking of knowing your plants can you share a little input on The Blueberry strain please (DJ short from Dutch Passion), Im always have leaf issues with the mother plant & now the clones


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## beginningbotanist420 (Mar 1, 2009)

I can't wait to see all of the trimmed, dried, and cured buds from this grow!


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## Heath Robinson (Mar 4, 2009)

*SayWord, MCD, dutchfunkle, Thundercat, greenfirekilla, homebrew420, Funkysmell, purplekitty,* and *DubB83,* great to have your comments and thanks for sticking with the grow.


Hi *merahoon*, I am hoping for 40+ Oz.


Lol *OregonMeds*, I spend plenty of time just looking at it myself.


*pillarize*, I would probably get more leaf and bud.


Hi *HappySack*, creative thinking to use a ball valve, but on this system it wouldnt work as a ball valve restricts flow and the dams dont they just set the liquid level in the tube.


Hey *9inch bigbud*, Nothing wrong with the trees in fact I am doing another one in about 8 weeks time. And yes I am like a kid in a sweetshop when I am in Wickes! lol.


Hi* iloveit*, good to hear you have mastered taking cuttings and power tools, there is no hope for you now as your life will be taken over constructing new things! 

The adhesive is silicone sealer, if you want to make sure that you are buying the right type you can use the stuff they make glass fish tanks out of as its non toxic and lasts forever.

I have the full range of the new MH sunpulse bulbs but on this grow I am using my tried and tested Growlux hps bulbs.

Contrary to what the nutrient manufacturers want you to believe they are pretty much all the same, I am using Vitalink on this grow but I also use Canna and Ionic which is the easiest to use as it is a one part nutrient.

The plants stay green because for the first two or three weeks of flower I keep them on veg nutrients to stop premature yellowing and leaf drop at the end of the grow.

The health of the plants depends on many factors but important ones to consider are ventilation, cool nutrient temps, making sure the roots have plenty of dissolved oxygen, and dont over feed the plants I typically feed at an EC of 1.2.

The Blueberry is a light feeder so you should check that you havent over fed her.



Ok here we are at* week 5 of 12/12* and everything is running ok.
































Heath


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## iloveit (Mar 4, 2009)

Heath Robinson said:


> *SayWord, MCD, dutchfunkle, Thundercat, greenfirekilla, homebrew420, Funkysmell, purplekitty,* and *DubB83,* great to have your comments and thanks for sticking with the grow.
> 
> 
> Hi *merahoon*, I am hoping for 40+ Oz.
> ...


Thanks uncle Heath


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## twistedentities (Mar 4, 2009)

Heath, once again you have supplied me with beautiful pics to accompany my coffee and morning sesh...your grows are incredible!


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## pillarize (Mar 4, 2009)

I'm inspired as to the simplicity of this set up.

Thanks for answering my comment and enjoyed this thread 

Can't wait for future updates...peace out.


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## loki will kill you (Mar 4, 2009)

this setup is incredible! those vikings are lookin tasty already!


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## merahoon (Mar 4, 2009)

Wow... *jaw drops*. Thats amazing that you can do that off of ONE 600w light!!! I can't wait to see if you get 40+ ounces or not. Only about 2 weeks left! 

I know you have stated some of the start-up fees but what do you think everything would cost? Ballasts and bulbs, I can figure out.

For ex. Hydroton, wood, screws, nails, silicone, etc. 

If you have mentioned that already, send me searching cause I must have scanned over it. I'm pretty sure it hasn't been mentioned yet though. Thank you Heath!


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## robotninja (Mar 4, 2009)

This may be the most efficient use of a single 600 watt light I'v ever seen...


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## MarijuanaScholar (Mar 5, 2009)

Heath, I'm new to the site and absolutely love your setup. Got a couple questions though: 

1.when switching from veg to bloom do just flush the system with water or can just drain it somehow?

2. How many gallons/liters are you using completely counting whats in the pipes and the res?

Thanks, and i'll definitely be here with you till the end.


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## FunkDrSpock (Mar 5, 2009)

You never fail to impress Heath, set up is bangin and everything dialled in, great job.

Its SP btw m8


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## 1982grower (Mar 5, 2009)

"I got a boner" Man thats nice man. i also love the clean properly done setups and have a question please. I have a wardrobe that is 72 high by 2 by 4. do you think i could yield well with the 3 interior walls done like yours only slightly smaller and the doors that open in the front would reflect the light? i would do all 4 sides but need access to the grow. maybe 4 levels tall on each wall? Sorry for asking on your site. What do you guys think. here is the cabinet.


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## iloveit (Mar 5, 2009)

1982grower said:


> "I got a boner" Man thats nice man. i also love the clean properly done setups and have a question please. I have a wardrobe that is 72 high by 2 by 4. do you think i could yield well with the 3 interior walls done like yours only slightly smaller and the doors that open in the front would reflect the light? i would do all 4 sides but need access to the grow. maybe 4 levels tall on each wall? Sorry for asking on your site. What do you guys think. here is the cabinet.


I have a 28 inch x 28 inch cabinet with a 400W HPS. Before you begin this setup I must tell you this...make sure you have great ventilation in terms of fresh, cool, outdoor oxygen because it can be difficult to maintain the temp in a small area. Take a look at my latest grow to find out more.


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## Thundercat (Mar 5, 2009)

Very sweet heath!! Its turning into a wall of bud!


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## 1982grower (Mar 5, 2009)

Thanks for answering. I'll check it out. Youve inspired me to try something new for sure. maybe a vertical t5ho grow in the wardrobe for heat reasons. Always great when somebody does something clean. Hate the half ass setups


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## jake43 (Mar 5, 2009)

I am truly amazed! That setup rivals the Pyramids or the Parthenon.

Forgive my inexperience but, why only around half an oz. per plant? Is it because you are veging for a shorter period?

I am planning on growing by DWC and most info I have seen say I should expect around 2-5 oz. per plant. I know this system is different but why such a big difference?


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## 1982grower (Mar 5, 2009)

because the size of the plants. many smaller plants finish quicker and grow smaller. if he grew massive plants they would all block eachother. i can't stop looking at this thread. amazing. you'll get your 2 to 3 ounces but he'll get 1/2 ounces out the wazzoo


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## jake43 (Mar 5, 2009)

1982grower said:


> because the size of the plants. many smaller plants finish quicker and grow smaller. if he grew massive plants they would all block eachother. i can't stop looking at this thread. amazing. you'll get your 2 to 3 ounces but he'll get 1/2 ounces out the wazzoo


 
Gotcha! Thanks man!


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## jake43 (Mar 5, 2009)

Is there a way to modify this system to accomodate say 60 larger plants?

I want my own spaceship!


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## merahoon (Mar 6, 2009)

Yeah just make it bigger... lol. More space in between the holes/plants, more space in between each level, and a bigger diameter. You might need more lights though or a 1000.


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## merahoon (Mar 6, 2009)

Has anyone been able to find 4'' pipe in the US. I have been trying to find some and its damn near impossible. I'm thinking about just walking into home depot and asking if they carry it. Their site doesn't say that they have it but you never know.


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## jake43 (Mar 6, 2009)

merahoon said:


> Has anyone been able to find 4'' pipe in the US. I have been trying to find some and its damn near impossible. I'm thinking about just walking into home depot and asking if they carry it. Their site doesn't say that they have it but you never know.


I am almost positive HD and Lowe's carry 4" pipes. The only thing I can not say for sure is if they are self-sealing. That would be the only bummer, the self-sealing feature is AWESOME!

I am going today and I will check it out and let everyone know.


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## sparat1k (Mar 6, 2009)

jake43 said:


> I am almost positive HD and Lowe's carry 4" pipes. The only thing I can not say for sure is if they are self-sealing. That would be the only bummer, the self-sealing feature is AWESOME!
> 
> I am going today and I will check it out and let everyone know.


ya, from what i saw my local Lowe's carries the 4" pvc, but not the self sealing "turn" pipes

some1 should check the internets


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## beginningbotanist420 (Mar 6, 2009)

Heath Robinson said:


> *SayWord, MCD, dutchfunkle, Thundercat, greenfirekilla, homebrew420, Funkysmell, purplekitty,* and *DubB83,* great to have your comments and thanks for sticking with the grow.
> 
> 
> Hi *merahoon*, I am hoping for 40+ Oz.
> ...


You should coin this technique not as vertical growing or sea of green, but as WALL of Green


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## Hydrotech364 (Mar 6, 2009)

Danger Will Robinson!Fucking badass,1 Difuser would be cool for extra O2 but thats one hell of an engineering job!


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## 1982grower (Mar 7, 2009)

If you can get to canada our homedepots and lowes have every diameter. Also not to answer on someone elses thead but the idea behind his grow is speed and efficiency. Larger plants in this system prob would not work out so well. Plus his system is basically flawless. why go bigger plants for longer and get same yield. Looks like there will be very few leaves oin there and a whole lotta bud. better ratio with this size


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## 1982grower (Mar 7, 2009)

His system is amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I could look at the empty pipes all day even


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## 1982grower (Mar 7, 2009)

Whoever said wall of green should say Walls plural of green. lol


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## StinkBud (Mar 7, 2009)

Yaaaaaa heath! I've been lurking for a while not wanting to get in your way but I can't help myself!

I just love your grow! Amazing attention to detail. Your system is a true work of art.

I like reading the haters remarks. Sad but at least they are entertaining. You would think they could find something better to do than bash. Don't let them get to you.

I really appreciate you taking the time to show everyone your system. The photos are great and will help many people understand the concepts.

Anyway sorry to waste space but I just had to say thanks!!!! Keep it up bro!


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## 1982grower (Mar 7, 2009)

What theres haters on here? don't even know what to say but jelous. I'm sure theyve all pointed out the flaws. where are the flaws again? jelous!!!!!


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## korvette1977 (Mar 7, 2009)

Looks great .. I bet It stinks SOOOOOOOO GOOOD


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## merahoon (Mar 7, 2009)

sparat1k said:


> ya, from what i saw my local Lowe's carries the 4" pvc, but not the self sealing "turn" pipes
> 
> some1 should check the internets


 
I still have to check Lowes online but HD didn't have it online when I looked. I looked under piping, sewer, pvc, 4'', and plastic pipe, and soil pipe. Are the self-sealing pipes necessary? Didn't Heath just use silicone to seal them? Of course it would make everything easier but I just didn't know if it was NEEDED.


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## HappySack (Mar 7, 2009)

The self sealing fittings are not available in the states. There are clear fittings that could be installed before a gate valve. Added that the gate valve could be installed upside down, to create the damn. This system is very simple/efficient. System maintenance is quick and easy. Two of these systems side by, could be used to test a variety of comparisons. IE; Nutrient challenge, bulbs,water temps/effect. Strains. One res could be used to run multiple systems. Here are a few suppliers for fittings. 
http://pvcfittings.com/
http://www.americanonsite.com/american/catalog/valves1.html
http://www.irrigationfitting.com/productdetail/91692/pvcgatevalve.htm


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## SmokeyMcSmokester (Mar 7, 2009)

Heath...you fuckin rock dude...

amazing setup


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## DeweY (Mar 7, 2009)

You Are The Man.


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## jake43 (Mar 7, 2009)

Heath, how long do you project it will take from the time you put the clones in to the time you harvest?

If this was answered already sorry, I must have missed it.


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## HappySack (Mar 7, 2009)

Are the clones always 3 weeks old when transplanted into the system?
If you used a 1kw light, could the inside dimensions be 5'x5', utilizing a 10' stick of pipe with min. wasted
Is there a ceiling on the system?


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## merahoon (Mar 7, 2009)

HappySack said:


> The self sealing fittings are not available in the states. There are clear fittings that could be installed before a gate valve. Added that the gate valve could be installed upside down, to create the damn. This system is very simple/efficient. System maintenance is quick and easy. Two of these systems side by, could be used to test a variety of comparisons. IE; Nutrient challenge, bulbs,water temps/effect. Strains. One res could be used to run multiple systems. Here are a few suppliers for fittings.
> http://pvcfittings.com/
> http://www.americanonsite.com/american/catalog/valves1.html
> http://www.irrigationfitting.com/productdetail/91692/pvcgatevalve.htm


Thanks for the links HappySack!

How tall is your system and what is the outer diameter? You mentioned the inside was 4ft, but I was curious how much total space this thing takes up.


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## trapper (Mar 9, 2009)

truelly great stuff,ive just spent the last few hours reading both grows,and you make me look like an incompitent trapper trying to grow,you have it going on.Since everything has been asked and answerd already i will ask what has not been asked,liveing in the bush do you think it is possible to use hollowed out spruce pine(pine trees) as pipeing instead of plastic pipe.I think the plants would feel more at ease growing in a echo system such as their own,thus increasing yield.but my hats off to you buddy.you have been very gracious to the countless growers and the many questions,your a gentlemen and a scholar.


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## grassified (Mar 9, 2009)

well seeing as trees are a different species than marijuana as human is a different species than an elephant, _would you like to be grown in an elephant carcass?_


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## nasd90 (Mar 9, 2009)

grassified said:


> well seeing as trees are a different species than marijuana as human is a different species than an elephant, _would you like to be grown in an elephant carcass?_



Extremely well put. You rock. kiss-ass


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## LoganSmith (Mar 9, 2009)

Holy schnikes........... Beam me up.please- super set up. I have an extra pair of trimmers


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## phoenix58 (Mar 9, 2009)

Heath,

Its so good to see you here at Rollitup  Since HG420 went down I have missed your amazing threads. Just chanced upon this one and recognised that avatar at once!! 

Inspirational stuff as ever.


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## iloveit (Mar 9, 2009)

phoenix58 said:


> Heath,
> 
> Its so good to see you here at Rollitup  Since HG420 went down I have missed your amazing threads. Just chanced upon this one and recognised that avatar at once!!
> 
> Inspirational stuff as ever.


I wish we had access to view his other setups.


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## Redneck020 (Mar 10, 2009)

I remember all of Heaths grows for HG420.com, some truly amazing shit. Seen a pic of one of his buds that weighed like 6oz. or something astronomical like that. Glad to see ur still around Heath


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## HappySack (Mar 11, 2009)

On entering the system, If you had enough ceiling height, the system could be raised up off the floor X number of feet. One then could scuttle under the return. The return would be to empty in a taller Res.


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## Heath Robinson (Mar 11, 2009)

*iloveit, twistedentities, pillarize, loki will kill you, merahoon, robotninja, MarijuanaScholar, FunkDrSpock, 1982grower, Thundercat, 1982grower, jake43, sparat1k, beginningbotanist420, hydrotech364, StinkBud,korvette1977, HappySack, SmokeyMcSmokester, DeweY, trapper, grassified, nasd90, LoganSmith, phoenix58* and *Redneck020*

What a great response, cheers, its great to have you all stop by and ad your comments. 

First of all let me apologise for not answering the questions this week, I am in a bit of a rush and only have time to post up the pics. If anyone needs something answering fire away and I promise the questions will be answered the next time I visit. I know what its like to have a question go unanswered so please bear with me this one time.

Ok update time at week 6 of 12/12 and everything is running as expected and the EC is still at 1.0.

the last two pics are of the clones which will be going into the system when these come out. They are in some bread trays which I have modified into a simple ebb and flow!.











































Heath


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## brothafromanothaplanet (Mar 11, 2009)

what's good heath?? it's great to see you over here. i've been looking for some familiar names since hg420's demise. gives me a lil boost of confidence for this site. i was reading some threads from hg that i printed out, and you really dropped some kickass knowledge on us newbie growers. i think i was checking out the 36 bucket hydro adventure, but this shit here is on a whole other level. gonna be checking out your posts and asking plenty of questions if you don't mind. i've got a couple of things going now and a project i just finished up that i will post some pics later on.


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## merahoon (Mar 11, 2009)

Lookin good Heath! How high are the plants from the ground at the highest level? Now that you only have about a week left, could you guess whether your going to meet your expectations or not?


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## Thundercat (Mar 11, 2009)

Lookin sweet Heath, down to the home stretch now! 

Are those clones in an aero set up?, the roots look amazing!


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## HappySack (Mar 11, 2009)

Heath, I want to get this right. You take cuttings @2 weeks of 12/12
So the clones are 4 weeks when they go back in the system
you veg for 1 week
flower for 7 weeks or 6 weeks?
I think that we are looking for a deeper level of detail, not on the build out. Although some are looking for the inside dimensions for a 1kw setup.
How often do you check on the system?


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## brothafromanothaplanet (Mar 12, 2009)

my bad......that was soulsuit's 36 bucket hydro adventure!


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## HappySack (Mar 12, 2009)

Soulsuit's was a good grow.


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## greenfirekilla420 (Mar 12, 2009)

amazing thats the only word that comes to mind. I just wanna walk in that room and look and smell lol.


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## LoganSmith (Mar 14, 2009)

Can you give some more information on the cloning set up. I'm having a tough time cloning for some reason. errrr. sorry 
Thanks

Peace-


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## westmich (Mar 14, 2009)

Late to the party but subscribed


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## josh4321 (Mar 14, 2009)

man looking sweet are you going to be doing any thing for outdoor


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## Redneck020 (Mar 15, 2009)

can someone tell me what happened to hg420.com??? Ever since Ive come back to Forums, i havent been able find out. I used to post there a good bit, even had two Grow Journals on there. Some newbie Fluoro grows, but i got some really good bud out of it, thanks to everyone's help. I remember that guy soulsuit too, he used to help me out alot. There were lots of others, i cant remember tho. I dont think anyone could forget about ole Heath tho. He had the most amazing shit there, i have to say. The Bud of the Month contest was always awesome too!!!


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## floridacity2004 (Mar 16, 2009)

nice grow show


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## Hedgehunter (Mar 16, 2009)

EVERYTHING YOU TOUCH TURNS TO GOLD ! ! great growing heath, do you do much outside ?


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## greenfirekilla420 (Mar 16, 2009)

Hedgehunter what strain is that in your avatar????? That looks amazing


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## purplekitty7772008 (Mar 18, 2009)

Whoah, what have I missed
since I haven't logged on?!?!?!

Look at those hot mamas!!!!

This journal can only get better.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 18, 2009)

Hedgehunter said:


> EVERYTHING YOU TOUCH TURNS TO GOLD ! ! great growing heath, do you do much outside ?


beautiful avatar. looks like purple kush.


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## smokinmayne (Mar 18, 2009)

subscribed. insane grow. great job


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## twistedentities (Mar 18, 2009)

fdd2blk said:


> beautiful avatar. looks like purple kush.  View attachment 357386 View attachment 357387 View attachment 357388 View attachment 357389


 FDD, absolutely beautiful plants!...i think id like to grow some of that!


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## merahoon (Mar 18, 2009)

fdd2blk said:


> beautiful avatar. looks like purple kush.  View attachment 357386 View attachment 357387 View attachment 357388 View attachment 357389


 
I wish the purple kush cuts they sold in the bay area looked that good.


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## greenfirekilla420 (Mar 18, 2009)

All I got to say is DAMN THOSE ARE MOUTH WATERING! Where do you get the seeds for that ex. seedbank? And also do the leaves just grow red and purple like that, or do they change colors when flowering and exposed to lower temps?


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## Old Frog (Mar 20, 2009)

Fantastic vert. setup, sir! Subscribed.


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## HappySack (Mar 20, 2009)

Heath, where are you?


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## polishfalcon420 (Mar 20, 2009)

man great thread. love it cant wait to get my stuff goin like that.


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## trapper (Mar 20, 2009)

that viking looks alot like northern lights #5,someone gave me a cutting thats from 96 he said it was NL#5 it finishes in about 50 days,it looks a lot like that.


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## iloveit (Mar 20, 2009)

Heath Ive always wanted to know where you get your grow set up ideas from?


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## HappySack (Mar 20, 2009)

I think Heath is AWOL


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## farel2 (Mar 21, 2009)

Looks really good man... Ill be watching for now oN!!!!!!!!
Is this set up original or did you get it from someone else?
To set up the vertical grow. is it easy? I am not the most handy person and so i guess im wondering if there is a specific science to making a set up like this or if its can be achieved by the average person.
How do you find the yield compared to a conventional hydroponic system?


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## HappySack (Mar 24, 2009)

Bump! Bump!


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## merahoon (Mar 24, 2009)

ohhhhh Heath..... where are you???


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## HappySack (Mar 24, 2009)

I bet Heath fell down in his room, and can't get up!


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## Heath Robinson (Mar 25, 2009)

sorry for the delay but here are all the pics to make up for it 

*The harvest was 46 0z*


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## Heath Robinson (Mar 25, 2009)

Heath


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## smokinmayne (Mar 25, 2009)

looks great. enjoy the smoke!


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## iloveit (Mar 25, 2009)

Ai curumba!

Heres a question: How do you manage to get rid of your cuttings & waste? Do you just throw them away at land fill sites?


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## Old Frog (Mar 25, 2009)

So just a tad over your expected average of .5 oz. per plant? What an impressive score per watt and sq. ft. that is! 

Out of curiosity, did you monitor the amount of water your setup consumed over the entire project?

Superb setup, nice cycle, clean journal, competent grower. Who could ask for anything more?


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## Heath Robinson (Mar 25, 2009)

Cheers *smokinmayne* 


Hi *iloveit* I have a solid fuel burner so everything gets burnt. I used to dry everything and throw it at the landfill though.


Thanks for the compliments *Old Frog* unfortunately I didnt moniter the water consumed, this system is very efficient in the use of water as it is in effect a closed system so there is very little lost due to evaporation etc.

Most of the water used is when I partially change the nutrient solution and the sheer number of plants would probably mean that quite a bit of water is lost through plant transpiration. 


Heath


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## Old Frog (Mar 25, 2009)

Heath Robinson said:


> I have a solid fuel burner so everything gets burnt. I used to dry everything and throw it at the landfill though.


Ditto. I incinerate everything now too, recycling bulbs and nut. containers at my local grow shop. Part of the reason I'm switching to all water setups too...my raised garden beds outdoors don't need any more refurbished soil!


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## InvestInMe (Mar 25, 2009)

46 oz is that trimed dry weight?


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## Heath Robinson (Mar 25, 2009)

*InvestInMe* of course it is dry, there wouldnt be much point in weighing the plants wet and untrimmed would there  


Heath


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## farel2 (Mar 25, 2009)

Final product looks great!!!!! does it burn clean???


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## iloveit (Mar 25, 2009)

Now for a few quick questions:

What is your all time favourite grow method (flood & drain, drip irrigation,aeroponics e.t.c.) in terms of a balance of high yield, least amount of waste, space, least amount of maintenance & cost? Ive been wanting to ask you this for a long time but though it may be an ignorant question.

Im using a 4 pot "Atami Wilma system" (yep super noobie here), what is/are the ideal reservoir water temps I should be aiming for to keep to keep in dissolved oxygen but to prevent pathogen growth? 

Where did you manage to find that HPS/MH lamp holder pictured in photo No. 74 from your album? I can only find plain lamp holders without the attached adjustable metal frame.

When you finished constructing this previous grow do you give it a clean with anything so its free from dirt or pathogens? 

46 ounces BRAVO! With in how much space/area?

I found the below pics from your album, what strain are those buds from? Black russian?

Thanks for uploading all those cool photos in your album uncle Heath.


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## InvestInMe (Mar 25, 2009)

46 oz is just impressive weight for a 600 hps


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## Xan2 (Mar 25, 2009)

I love you setup it's very clean and it's working very good as we can see. I am still asking myself if i should go vert in my next room or should i attempt monters? I don't know .... but +rep for the setup.


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## merahoon (Mar 25, 2009)

Job well done Heath! Is that a record weight for a 600w in 8-9 weeks? I know what I'm building after this years outdoor


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## FLoJo (Mar 25, 2009)

2.14 gpw great job as usual heath.. i guess i know what my next system will look like... that is until you break the 3 gpw barrier lol


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## Old Frog (Mar 25, 2009)

merahoon said:


> Job well done Heath! Is that a record weight for a 600w in 8-9 weeks? I know what I'm building after this years outdoor


No kidding. I'm thinking about building three of these in my current space (21'x8'x8'). If I could average 120oz. every 11 weeks that'd be just peachy keen keen keen.  The frame is a bit bulky, but I think it needs to be to hold all that water and plant weight. 6' square footprint with a 9' ceiling, right?

Had a friend who did a vert. grow with 3000w HPS and 80 plants sites a few years ago. He yielded just under 1.34 gpw. This is far superior, obviously.


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## trapper (Mar 25, 2009)

nice,my question is how do you control the flow of a pump that size,would not the first row were the pump is connected not get a powerful rush of water compared to the plants farther down the line.im trying to to understand how you maintain an active push of water through the system that is balanced.im not sure if you understand my question i really was a trapper so i never wrote an essay.


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## greenfirekilla420 (Mar 25, 2009)

Wow great job Heath jaw dropping acutally.


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## LoudBlunts (Mar 25, 2009)

sweet setup


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## Xan2 (Mar 25, 2009)

if the water rush in the upper tube it will rush in the lower one too... the gravity do the job...


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## dutchfunkle (Mar 26, 2009)

if you would have read the first few pages, you would know that the flow is controlled from a bypass valve to regulate flow....2 answer ur question


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## trapper (Mar 26, 2009)

i never said i didnt read all the pages,if my memories bad well its bad.was i going to reread it,no.it has about two weeks of were are you heath.


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## HappySack (Mar 26, 2009)

I just hope Heat answers all the Q's


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## justinbars (Mar 27, 2009)

I love how clean and efficient your grow room is.


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## iloveit (Mar 27, 2009)

I forgot to ask you this question in the "Quick question" post:

When it comes to drying what temps & humidity do you dry at? And what rule of thumb do you use to confirm that the process is complete?


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## whitenugz (Mar 27, 2009)

Hey heath
I love your grow and am inspired to do one myself. I have a few questions though if you don't mind answering them.

HOW do you clean that thing between water and feeding? After you feed don't you clean out the pipes and get rid of unwanted waste? If you do not clean the pipes what are you feeding them that doesn't create a lot of waste? If you are cleaning them, where do you put all those plants when you put in a flushing solution?

You say you keep a steady flow to keep the oxygen rich. How fast does this flow need to be? Or, what angel are your pipes sit at and is your pump on full blast? (i don't know if there are adjustments on the pump)

Does the water run 24/7?

I know its a bunch of questions but i appreciate anything you can give.


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## dutchfunkle (Mar 28, 2009)

PEOPLE,put the joint/bong/and or pipe down and step away slowly. You ppl are thee laziest and uneducated stoners i have come across. All of these questions have been asked several times throughout this glorius grow and keeps refering to reading the whole fucking journal to answer their own questions. And another thing,the same ppl that can't do their own research to find an answer to their simpleness are the ones putting liberals into office just because they're gonna 'legalize marijuana' YOURE ALL SHEEP,SHEEP,SHEEP


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## FLoJo (Mar 28, 2009)

dutchfunkle said:


> PEOPLE,put the joint/bong/and or pipe down and step away slowly. You ppl are thee laziest and uneducated stoners i have come across. All of these questions have been asked several times throughout this glorius grow and keeps refering to reading the whole fucking journal to answer their own questions. And another thing,the same ppl that can't do their own research to find an answer to their simpleness are the ones putting liberals into office just because they're gonna 'legalize marijuana' YOURE ALL SHEEP,SHEEP,SHEEP


thank you for saying it.. +rep


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## Kush28 (Mar 28, 2009)

dutchfunkle said:


> putting liberals into office just because they're gonna 'legalize marijuana


Yea, it appears Obama lied to everyone about this issue as well! And then when marijuana law reform was voted the #1 issue by everyone, he insulted us and made a mockery of us on national tv! He was a admitted smoker himself! What a freaking hypocrite! If he had ever been caught, he would NEVER been in the position he is in now, NEVER! He has lost my support, as well as millions of others who believe our marijuana laws are absurd! Oh yea, and the feds are still raiding medical dispenseries!!!

Anyway, this is such an awesome setup and yield! Thank you for sharing!


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## keroseen (Mar 28, 2009)

dutchfunkle said:


> PEOPLE,put the joint/bong/and or pipe down and step away slowly. You ppl are thee laziest and uneducated stoners i have come across. All of these questions have been asked several times throughout this glorius grow and keeps refering to reading the whole fucking journal to answer their own questions. And another thing,the same ppl that can't do their own research to find an answer to their simpleness are the ones putting liberals into office just because they're gonna 'legalize marijuana' YOURE ALL SHEEP,SHEEP,SHEEP


fair play to ya m8, couldn't have said it better....i prob would do spellcheck tho if i was plannin to call peeps uneducated lol!

KS

ps Heath u r a bastard, every time i promise myself im gonna chill out the plant numbers you do a fat vert and i get real twitchy. lush grow m8, not bad for a 4 banger whore.


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## trapper (Mar 28, 2009)

dutchfunkle said:


> PEOPLE,put the joint/bong/and or pipe down and step away slowly. You ppl are thee laziest and uneducated stoners i have come across. All of these questions have been asked several times throughout this glorius grow and keeps refering to reading the whole fucking journal to answer their own questions. And another thing,the same ppl that can't do their own research to find an answer to their simpleness are the ones putting liberals into office just because they're gonna 'legalize marijuana' YOURE ALL SHEEP,SHEEP,SHEEP


i asked about the flow control someone said its answered,it is not he says a valve on a t directs it to the vert and res for oxidization.in my experience as a fitter their are bout 60 valves,if someone wants more specific information is that wrong.just a normal butterfly valve,ball valve,flow conversion valve,their are also a bunch of new hydro specific valves,it just seems that 4000 lph is alot of push,and with out the right reduceing valve you will get a lot of friction and banging.i also would like the information concerning the timing of the clones,is that wrong to ask buddy,now that your the sheriff for heath,maybe i will ask you for permission before i ask hows that do ya boy.


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## HappySack (Mar 29, 2009)

Touche' Trapper!


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## LoudBlunts (Mar 29, 2009)

dutchfunkle said:


> PEOPLE,put the joint/bong/and or pipe down and step away slowly. You ppl are thee laziest and uneducated stoners i have come across. All of these questions have been asked several times throughout this glorius grow and keeps refering to reading the whole fucking journal to answer their own questions. And another thing,the same ppl that can't do their own research to find an answer to their simpleness are the ones putting liberals into office just because they're gonna 'legalize marijuana' YOURE ALL SHEEP,SHEEP,SHEEP


LMAO picture that!

someone who obviously can't spell and numerous grammatical errors telling other folks they are 'thee laziest and uneducated'

how ironic.

stop judging and pick up the blunt.

no question is a dumb question. not everybody wants to dig through a large/multi paged thread.


sometimes i wonder if some of you uptight arses smoke weed


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## bobhope1925 (Mar 30, 2009)

Hi Heath wonderfull grow, I'm inspired, gonna have a go with something similar but have a couple of modifications and would like your opinion.
One idea is to make the spiral into rings and use solvent weld soilpipe bosses with rubber bungs and 40 mm tube to set the level of nutrient in the tube and to let the liquid to cascade straight down to the next level. the 40mm waste could be pushed up or down in the rubber bung to set the level of nutrient.
or to run a more simple nft spiral, using 100 mm electrical underground ducting that comes on a 50 metre lengths. its only 130 quid for a 50 metre spiral ,and there are no joints to leak anyway hope you have time to reply , bob


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## loki will kill you (Apr 1, 2009)

amazing grow heath, massive rep! all that viking is lookin tasty man, cant wait 2 c ur next grow.


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## whitenugz (Apr 2, 2009)

dutchfunkle said:


> PEOPLE,put the joint/bong/and or pipe down and step away slowly. You ppl are thee laziest and uneducated stoners i have come across. All of these questions have been asked several times throughout this glorius grow and keeps refering to reading the whole fucking journal to answer their own questions. And another thing,the same ppl that can't do their own research to find an answer to their simpleness are the ones putting liberals into office just because they're gonna 'legalize marijuana' YOURE ALL SHEEP,SHEEP,SHEEP





LoudBlunts said:


> LMAO picture that!
> 
> someone who obviously can't spell and numerous grammatical errors telling other folks they are 'thee laziest and uneducated'
> 
> ...


haha, thats what i'm saying. I don't know; i'm STONED so i must be an idiot and cannot read but i think the sites domain is www. R O L L I T U P . ORG "it" refering to marijuana, correct?

I just wanted to know his cleaning techniques b/c he runs the water 24/7 and the angle at which the down pipes rest at so i can mimic his water flow to get a correct DO. If you already mentioned that just tell me and i'll look harder but i don't have hours to read through all the threads i'm interested in, i apologize for having a life and a job to support my family. I will try to work less to provide less for my family so i can read more about growing weed; DUTCHFUNKLE.


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## HappySack (Apr 2, 2009)

My own belief is that Heath has abandoned us....There are so many unanswered questions. Heath comes in, through s up some bud porn, promises to answer the Q's, and he's down the street on his canna green Vespa before the door shuts.


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## nadinamirror (Apr 2, 2009)

that is totally fuckin awesome i wish i had the resouces to have a similar setup


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## Old Frog (Apr 2, 2009)

HappySack said:


> My own belief is that Heath has abandoned us....


Can you really blame the guy? Look at the retard-circus his thread became.  Also, the grow was done like a month ago. Grow journal=done.


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## whitenugz (Apr 2, 2009)

HappySack said:


> My own belief is that Heath has abandoned us....There are so many unanswered questions. Heath comes in, through s up some bud porn, promises to answer the Q's, and he's down the street on his canna green Vespa before the door shuts.


Maybe there will be someone nice enough that has the knowledge and/or who has already spoken with heath to help answer our "stupid questions" as some of these kids are putting it.



Old Frog said:


> Can you really blame the guy? Look at the retard-circus his thread became.  Also, the grow was done like a month ago. Grow journal=done.


Your calling Heaths fans; whom he encouraged many people to grow using his style, a retarded-circus? WHAT PART OF THE GOVERMENT ARE YOU EMPLOYEED BY?

3-26-09 - Heaths last post - Grow journal done? he's still helping people out when he can; it seems as if he enjoys helping people.
Anyways who are you to speak for him? How do you americans say it? Your his lil bitch?

Sense, you can speak for him. How much DO is needed to keep a 2-4 foot plant healthly in a flooded set up?
Or, sense you probably can't answer that in the math form i want; how fast is the water flowing?


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## FLoJo (Apr 2, 2009)

whitenugz said:


> Maybe there will be someone nice enough that has the knowledge and/or who has already spoken with heath to help answer our "stupid questions" as some of these kids are putting it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


if i were him i wouldnt wanna answer the same questions over and over, and look at all the ops he has, hes a busy man.. if people wanna know bad enough they should read through everything first, thats why the info is there in text 

and to answer your question, water holds DO at different temperatures, so that is whats key in a setup like this..

water at about 65 degrees holds somewhere around 14 ppm of do, where 75 it holds about 10 ppm, and 85 about 6 ppm

the DO is not what is entirely important, yes it will promote more vigorous growth, and better root mass and structure, but the DO is not what keeps the plant healthy..

as water temps rise, it becomes a breeding ground for anaerobic bacteria that cause root rot, and that is what makes your plant unhealthy.

you can have higher water temps, and if you treat it with beneficial treatments such as h202 or hydroguard, you can stave off bacterial infections.. but its much better to keep the temps down anways


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## trapper (Apr 2, 2009)

Old frog how did it come to this old wise frog,why did we retards get so rapped up in this old wise frog.How old wise frog did it become a circus,you call that a journal old wise frog.He would of been better off just posting a how to build the circular water pipe system and leave it at that.he doesnt post for a month then next thing i hear he got over 2 pounds from a 600,end of story.maybe he did maybe he didnt,i wasnt their,and frankly i dont care,because the systym was a neat thing. but it really pisses me off when people like you label people with questions a retard,it tells me more about you then it does about the people you described.now im leaveing this circus old wise frog.


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## Heath Robinson (Apr 2, 2009)

A big thanks to all of you who have kept this thread positive, as usual I am pushed for time but I will sit down tomorrow and answer *all* the unanswered questions, until then here are some pics of the latest run with new Viking clones.

If you get really bored have a look at my Black Rose thread as the only views it gets are from me!!! https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/177039-black-rose-seed-run.html


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## whitenugz (Apr 2, 2009)

FLoJo said:


> if i were him i wouldnt wanna answer the same questions over and over, and look at all the ops he has, hes a busy man.. if people wanna know bad enough they should read through everything first, thats why the info is there in text
> 
> and to answer your question, water holds DO at different temperatures, so that is whats key in a setup like this..
> 
> ...


I know about the temp math but the temp just gives you a # of a max number you can reach - 14 ppm . It doesn't hold that DO 24/7 unless it is promoted. Promotion by what Heath has already mastered. The angle at which his downpipes are set at and his recirculation, i'm guessing. 

I don't think my 1-2 questions should upset people. And no my questions are not answered in this thread.
1- What angle are the downpipes set at?
2- it seems as if you do not clean it out before adding nutrients/water. Do you just let the water do the cleaning?




Heath Robinson said:


> The key to all my grows is the fast recirculation of the water.
> 
> hope that helps.
> 
> ...





FLoJo said:


> very interesting Heath, so do you never change the res? just add nutes and water to it?





Heath Robinson said:


> I change the nutrients every 2 weeks, I am using Vitalink at an EC of 1.


If this answers my question I don't understand it.


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## merahoon (Apr 2, 2009)

Would you change anything you did in the first round? IF so, what and why? Also do you have a design showing your dimensions before you put up the pipes?


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## whitenugz (Apr 2, 2009)

merahoon said:


> Would you change anything you did in the first round? IF so, what and why? Also do you have a design showing your dimensions before you put up the pipes?





FLoJo said:


> very interesting Heath, so do you never change the res? just add nutes and water to it?
> 
> forgot to also ask, how do you think this system will compare to your other vertical systems? do you think it will outperform the shelving style like i have and the tree grow?





Heath Robinson said:


> *, *
> *FLoJo, smartsoverambition, quazzy10, smppro, CapnBud, TOKEMASTERFLEX, Hedgehunter, holmes, FunkyCamel, flamdrags420, themoose, SayWord, beginningbotanist420, smartbadguy, Earl, runsfromdacops, purplekitty7772008, Picasso345* and last but by no means least *Blunted1.*
> 
> My apologise for keeping you waiting while Ireturned from the dark side of the moon!
> ...


just because i have read through this thread 100x now to make sure non of my questions were answered b/c of all you nice pot heads out there.
also, the deminsions are posted.


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## iloveit (Apr 3, 2009)

Heath Robinson said:


> A big thanks to all of you who have kept this thread positive, as usual I am pushed for time but I will sit down tomorrow and answer *all* the unanswered questions, until then here are some pics of the latest run with new Viking clones.
> 
> If you get really bored have a look at my Black Rose thread as the only views it gets are from me!!! https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/177039-black-rose-seed-run.html


Nice going Heath


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## FLoJo (Apr 3, 2009)

the angles of the pipe is not what keeps the DO levels high in the nutrient mixture.. it does probably put a small amount back in but not much.

the angled pipes with the spillway is only to regulate the water level of the nutrient in the actual pipes.

the nutrients spilling back into the res, and the pump circulating the water is what keeps the DO levels high, but again, the DO levels can only be as high as water temperature will allow.


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## merahoon (Apr 3, 2009)

FLoJo said:


> the angles of the pipe is not what keeps the DO levels high in the nutrient mixture.. it does probably put a small amount back in but not much.
> 
> the angled pipes with the spillway is only to regulate the water level of the nutrient in the actual pipes.
> 
> the nutrients spilling back into the res, and the pump circulating the water is what keeps the DO levels high, but again, the DO levels can only be as high as water temperature will allow.


I didn't ask the question but thanks for the info


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## whitenugz (Apr 3, 2009)

FLoJo said:


> the angles of the pipe is not what keeps the DO levels high in the nutrient mixture.. it does probably put a small amount back in but not much.
> 
> the angled pipes with the spillway is only to regulate the water level of the nutrient in the actual pipes.
> 
> the nutrients spilling back into the res, and the pump circulating the water is what keeps the DO levels high, but again, the DO levels can only be as high as water temperature will allow.


Thats what I will be trying to reach. The max potential of all the variables. Just the pump alone is suffecient? From what i read the actual speed of the water flow is what heath emphasized as a huge DO contributor. I get the water level but i'm concerned about obtaining the correct water flow. The answer to my question could just easily be. Yes, the water pump provides enough DO. I just don't want to lose a crop halfway through when the DO is necessary with the large root mass.


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## vicbudz (Apr 3, 2009)

What's the size of the net pots? Couldn't find the answer anywhere in the thread ...


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## Hydrotech364 (Apr 4, 2009)

There not in net pots,This isn't a dwc grow.


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## Old Frog (Apr 4, 2009)

First page, first post, third pic?


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## vicbudz (Apr 4, 2009)

hydrotech364 said:


> There not in net pots,This isn't a dwc grow.



say what...are you sure? I swear I've seen pics of net pots filled with hydroton....


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## FLoJo (Apr 4, 2009)

they are net pots filled with hydroton.. my guess is either 3 or 4 inch


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## Thundercat (Apr 5, 2009)

Deffinitly net pots. My question is has anybody seen heath? Did I miss the last update, seems like its been awhile.


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## Thundercat (Apr 5, 2009)

Ah ha, I did miss the update, I just went back a couple pages, and found it. Damn 64 oz, thats insane. Great job man!! NOt that you need to hear that, lol.


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## HappySack (Apr 5, 2009)

Thundercat, I think you might be lesdistick, it was 46oz not 64oz.


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## bigbuddc (Apr 5, 2009)

Heath, Im new to all of this but really amazed at what you've managed to do here.  The only thing Im confused about is if you system is 360 degrees around your light how in the world do you get inside the thing to service it  ?!?! Any help with this would be great as I've been racking my brain with this one  .


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## Greenmountaingroup (Apr 5, 2009)

The Bomb as always Robinson!!!
GMG aka: OldRookie


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## Heath Robinson (Apr 6, 2009)

*farel2, InvestInMe, Xan2, FLoJo, Old Frog, greenfirekilla420, LoudBlunts, Xan2, dutchfunkle, HappySack, justinbars, dutchfunkle, Kush28, KS, loki will kill you, nadinamirror, hydrotech364, vicbudz *and last but not least *Thundercat* thanks to you all for looking in and keeping the tread going I appreciate it. 



*iloveit*, my favourite grow method is probably top feed or flood & drain they are both simple to run and set up and both give very good yields.

I dry at a relative humidity of approx 62 and temps of approx 72, the stems should crack rather than bend when fully dry, the buds also need to feel dry to the touch but obviously not too dry that they crumble to dust, a humidity of 62 helps prevent this. 

The Wilma system is very good, if you are using clay pebbles I would recommend using the high flow drippers that come with it (the blue ones) as the higher flow rate gives better results. If you place a small pump in the res it helps to increase the dissolved oxygen (DO) and keeps things mixed up nicely, and I have my res temps at around 19C.




*trapper*, the flow into the system is controlled by using a bypass in the res, on the pipe which comes from the output side of the pump I have a "T" fitted. One side of the T feeds the system the other has a valve fitted (doesnt matter what type) if I open the valve some of the water from the pump goes back to the res so I have full control over how much flow enters the system.







If you look at this picture you can see the pump at the bottom right, then there is a "T" look to the left and you can see the valve with a green circle, in the picture the valve is half way open, so the pump is recirculating some of the liquid directly back to the res. If I fully open the valve the flow to the vertical is reduced simply because more of the water is recirculated. If I close the valve no water is recirculated and the full output of the pump is sent to the vert. (I hope the picture explains it better than I did! lol).




Hi *whitenugz*, The system is only fully cleaned at the end of each harvest, throughout the grow I simply empty the res once a week and refill with fresh nutrient solution. Because the system runs with flooded tubes the nutrient is a partial change because I dont drain the tubes. At the end of the grow I simply pull out the roots which is very easy as they come out intact and then swill it out with a hosepipe.

A rule of thumb I use on my grows is to run the flow fast enough to exchange the water at least 5 times per hour. In the vertical the water is flowing through at a rate of at least 2000 litres per hour, the faster the flow rate the more DO you will have. Have a look at my answer to Trapper about how the flow rate is controlled hopefully that will answer it for you.

The water runs 24/7, it has to as it is the only means of providing the necessary DO.




*bobhope1925*, Yes thats a good way of doing it, I have an Aeroflo system which works in the same way and it works perfectly. I also looked at the nft spiral and built a small section to test it and again it worked fine. The only thing you have to do is put a small tail of spreader mat or something hanging out of the bottom of the net pot to allow water to wick up to the plant until the roots are long enough to reach down to the water flow.




*merahoon*, the only thing I have changed this time round is I have put in larger cuttings, other than that the system seems to be working very well. So any modifications I do will be minor.




*vicbudz*, the netpots are 3".




Hey *bigbuddc*, I climb into the vertical where the pipes step down to the next level, this is easy to do when the system is empty and the plants are small but not easy at the end! In the pic you can see the low part where I climb in.









Ha Ha cheers *OldRookie*, good to see you here!.




No update today as I forgot my camera! but everything is running fine, I will try put some new pics up on thurs or fri


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## dbo24242 (Apr 6, 2009)

I am inspired by this


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## phoenix58 (Apr 6, 2009)

Heath, you never fail to amaze me! I'll take a look at your Black Rose grow now 

Glad you're here at Rollitup, I'm wondering how many other ex HG420 members have found thier way here?

Great thread.


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## iloveit (Apr 6, 2009)

Much appreciated uncle Heath


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## HappySack (Apr 6, 2009)

Heath, could you address the question about the size of the system, if one were to use a 1kw light? 
I was thinking about entering the system. Starting @ the top tube. The top tube runs, say half way around, drops to the next tube, which reverses 180'. That tube runs all the way back around, drops, and reverses 180'back to the where the top tube dropped, and so on until the bottom tube. Then an opening could be created. 
Is there a ceiling on the system?
Could you go into more detail about the ventilation of the system?


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## merahoon (Apr 6, 2009)

Yeah I was curious if we could get dimensions if your willing to give that up. I could figure out the pipe but I can't figure out how you set up your framing? And I apologize if you mentioned this earlier but how do the plants not drown by being filled an inch above the bottom of the net pot. Is it because you have so much DO they can breath? And what size cutting do you use now?


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## Thundercat (Apr 6, 2009)

HappySack said:


> Thundercat, I think you might be lesdistick, it was 46oz not 64oz.



Lol thanks happy sack, I think I was prolly typing fast, in a hurry.


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## iloveit (Apr 7, 2009)

*iloveit*, The Wilma system is very good, if you are using clay pebbles I would recommend using the high flow drippers that come with it (the blue ones) as the higher flow rate gives better results. If you place a small pump in the res it helps to increase the dissolved oxygen (DO) and keeps things mixed up nicely, and I have my res temps at around 19C.

Through my entire grow process with the Atami wilma system I was & still am unsure of one thing which is, am I supposed to place the stake (dripper & flood) side ways directly above the cube? As I use root riot cubes & as soon as I see multiple roots I place them from the propagator to the Atami system, because the roots are not long enough to reach the bottom of the 11L pots I have no choice but to place the black dripper stake on its side whilst touching the top of the root riot cube thinkng itll distribute the water to all the roots. Is their a better method?

Sorry Heath if this is inapproriate of me to post questions of my grow on your journal


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## skinnersone (Apr 9, 2009)

Heath,
Someone linked this to my post over at another site. I am very impressed with your ingenuity. Kudos.
I was looking for the parts from the list you provided and am only finding the items in the UK and I am on the other side of the pond. Any idea where I may locate these fittings, etc? Do box stores carry these things.
Again thanks for the amazing thread.


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## HappySack (Apr 9, 2009)

The box stores will have this. Heath calls it drain, or on this side it is DWC. I would skip DWC, and just use schedule 40 6". Cost difference is minimal. And for those nifty self sealing collars, can't find them. I think that a gate valve would work perfect. A 6" gate valve will be a little pricey. But I found some clear valves that would simplify knowing the water level. I think a few of use are still waiting for Heath to answer a few Q's. He got 46oz's from a single 600W with no Co2. Gotta love that DO. Take sometime to build the system, auto pilot after that, almost. Thinking that the most work will come from the 2nd week of flower, taking clones. I still need clearification on the ventilation. inside dimensions for a 1kw.


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## skinnersone (Apr 9, 2009)

HappySack said:


> The box stores will have this. Heath calls it drain, or on this side it is DWC. I would skip DWC, and just use schedule 40 6". Cost difference is minimal. And for those nifty self sealing collars, can't find them. I think that a gate valve would work perfect. A 6" gate valve will be a little pricey. But I found some clear valves that would simplify knowing the water level. I think a few of use are still waiting for Heath to answer a few Q's. He got 46oz's from a single 600W with no Co2. Gotta love that DO. Take sometime to build the system, auto pilot after that, almost. Thinking that the most work will come from the 2nd week of flower, taking clones. I still need clearification on the ventilation. inside dimensions for a 1kw.


What do you mean by DWC? Deep water culture or is a term for a type of pvc? Also you think I can get all this at a box store minus the fancy collars? I will have to find a solution for those. 

If I got 1/3 of his yields I would be happy. I am really impressed by this setup.


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## keenas (Apr 10, 2009)

I think he means DWV which stands for Drain, Waste, Vent...... I have had trouble searching for it down under also...I believe its a presure pipe.

I too had thought of the gate valve.... it would have to be mounted upside down to work the same.


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## maize (Apr 10, 2009)

your a wizard mate///Have nft system with lots of airstones do you recommend running the water at how many litres per min at moment i run her at 2 litres per minute


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## iloveit (Apr 10, 2009)

maize said:


> your a wizard mate///Have nft system with lots of airstones do you recommend running the water at how many litres per min at moment i run her at 2 litres per minute


Those cooltube seem a lot longer than normal, just curious what the length is & brand name.

By the way nice setup.


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## maize (Apr 10, 2009)

Vote heath for prime minister////they are 150*500*3mm no name brand with lumitex ballists 600hps im thinking of taking reflector off and hanging vertical with ducting and fan


iloveit said:


> Those cooltube seem a lot longer than normal, just curious what the length is & brand name.
> 
> By the way nice setup.


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## HappySack (Apr 10, 2009)

DWV, my bad. Scedual 40 has more options for fittings. The solution for the self sealing collars is a gate valve. Maybe installed upside down. I put up some links earlier in this post for some clear pvc fittings. The only problem I see with this system is getting in it. You could make a door by reversing each row 180* @ the door, or opening. That might screw up the demensions of the interior, as too the light.


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## pinner420 (Apr 13, 2009)

Well man I've read damn near everthing i've had the patients to find on line of yours and am sold fo sho. I used to roll 20 light show but have since gone the way of legal grows and in my state I can only grow six currently so I've been rolling'm out big so sog isn't an option for me. Would this system take 3 and 4 footers if tied appropriately? Vitalink hmm I'll give it a shot. I beleieve at this point that you have a cult on your hands thus as one of your followers I suggest you sell it as a kit and start a colli inc. Sell the entire package @ a tidy markup and help fix our ailing global melt down with your 2gpw techniques. Thanks for all you've done and if I may ask as good as you are with your camera I think you should slap some video up too. Much Success.


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## Skeksis (Apr 13, 2009)

I agree Heath. If you're in a position where it wouldn't be much of a hassle to do so, maybe you could
sell your vertical flood tube systems as kits. I would be one of the first in line to buy one for sure. I only
wish I had the DIY skills (and imagination) to make one on my own. I can follow plans or blueprints quite 
easily however, so if you could make something like that available, it would be much appreciated as well.

Cheers!


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## pinner420 (Apr 16, 2009)

You ever do an aquaponics run Heath?


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## potsmoker93 (Apr 18, 2009)

any updates lol


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## iloveit (Apr 18, 2009)

Heath, Heath where for art thou Heath!


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## iloveit (Apr 19, 2009)

A few more questions as usual:

How do you cure the entire weight, in jars, bags, do you leave them in the freezer? & for how long?

You said in a previous answer, *that your res is topped up automatically from the mains supply*. Do you have a seperate reservoir where you allow water to evaporate the chlorine? Or is this not necessary? 

Hope to hear from you soon. ILoveit.


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## bluntrave (Apr 22, 2009)

heath it looks great hope my grow comes out ask nice as urs did. wow really like that sea of green.


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## LoudBlunts (Apr 22, 2009)

errrrrrr??


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## HappySack (Apr 24, 2009)

Will Heath ever come back and answer the questions?


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## Negrodamus (Apr 24, 2009)

_Whats that smell? Ooops I just shit my pants lol. Fuckin amazing grow dude 2g/w is a level unto itself you are truly a gifted grower.kiss-ass_


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## nephilthy (Apr 24, 2009)

does anyone know the exact dimension of the cuts on the pipe?near as i can figure the best economical way for 10'6" lenths being 126 inches is 6 lengths of 21 inches,though his last run before dam collar looks a little longer.don't know how far off last run is off bottom of floor or fan or res or if they are lower than frame.spacing between runs looks close to 3 inches.


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## nephilthy (Apr 24, 2009)

imitation is the sincerest form of flattery


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## pinner420 (Apr 25, 2009)

Is there a meter for measuring 'DO' Dissolved Oxygen? What levels did your system attain?


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## LoudBlunts (Apr 25, 2009)

yes there is a such thing as a meter


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## NeedTHCinjection (Apr 25, 2009)

Absolutely Amazing Structure. This design is perfect for my (Though ill make it a little smaller lol). Just one question, for your tubes and joints ect. Did you just go to a plumbing store? I've been looking for big enough pvc pipe and cant find it. I havnt tried a plumbing store though.


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## nephilthy (Apr 25, 2009)

o.k. so i did some layout if you take 10'6" sections of either pvc black or white cut 21"I believe around 25 sections then 4 sections of 31" layed before collar and 90 and 45 to next level their is a small section of 6 and 1/2 inch betweeen 90 and 45. gonna put it up in a shed.unlike the flexible soil pipe in .u.k. p.v.c. once glued properly and correctly they should need less strapping for support.
definitely an amazing system.it would be fun and fairly easy to market something like this and good for medical people.


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## grassified (Apr 25, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> Deffinitly net pots. My question is has anybody seen heath? Did I miss the last update, seems like its been awhile.


 
I Think he overdosed on all that mary jane.


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## keenas (Apr 25, 2009)

I have been looking to use the solvent jointed system of 4" pvc to make a similar set up, but had trouble tring to work out the rotating dam system..but have now found an external sleeve with oring/seals at each end called a "leak repair sleeve"... so it is an external fit rather than internal like Heaths but Iam thinking it will still work the same...Not built yet so can't cofirm success or otherwise.


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## HappySack (Apr 25, 2009)

keenas; are you in the states? where did you find the "leak repair sleeve" are you going to build your system out of 4"?


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## keenas (Apr 26, 2009)

Iam in oz mate...found it at local hardware store...yes 4"....I am going to try a three and a half sided unit to enable a gap to enter the centre....and have the pipes turn 180 deg on its self.
cheers


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## dutchfunkle (Apr 26, 2009)

I myself have been mulling the pvc issue over in my head as i live in the states and not being afforded self locking collars. The issue of teardown arises if needed in clandestine situations and constructing such a glorious structure and not being able to take it down w/o destroying it pretty much if using pvc glue. does anyone know of ways around this?any input is appreciated ahead of time....


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## grassified (Apr 26, 2009)

wait I dunno if heath mentioned this but Ididnt see it mentioned. How does the structure stay uop? Does he have it on a frame or what?


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## Thundercat (Apr 26, 2009)

Its mounted to a wooden frame. You can see it in the early pictures, before he put the reflective stuff on it all. 

Dutchfunkle, I don't really think that if you worried about having to take down your system, that something like this is for you. Its deffinitly a build in system. On that note, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to build this system to almost any dimensions, you could just snake the pipes around, and use more lights. In theroy, you could line the walls of pretty much any space with this, and put lights in the middle. I was pictureing a shipping container when I said that, with 1000w lights run down the middle of it. All air cooled, with atmoshpere controls. This type of system could be a great way to have an nearly automated grow.


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## nephilthy (Apr 26, 2009)

o.k. keenas they have couplers or you could fix a dam at any point at the end of run ,cut a 3"hole for your site and experiment with dam. size can be built out of any plastic silicone in.or get a coupler put in place where dam site is and use grease or duct tape 4"hose clamp to semi secure for figuring proper water levela,and secure more as needed.
yea he has it framed if your system is glued it wont need the level of support as the piping in heaths system is sealed not held by a rubber o-ring.you could probably get way with anchoring in 3 or 4 places .remember the spacing is 3" so I think heath says his system is 28"high. so 3" off bottom for last run plus 9" spacing between runs=12"plus 4 times 4"for the total combined height os four runs is 16"..so 16 +12 =28 .so you may have to fudge with the bottom run to return to you res or cut into res with pipe and silicone as heath has done.
as far as tear downyou could cut the system into breakable sections and use couplers to refasten they are cheap 1.80 as ho depot.you could slice it in two after fully assembled and have 8 total sections.the reflective material you have to secure so wwhatever works...


----------



## BCtrippin (Apr 27, 2009)

...


----------



## Persistance (Apr 28, 2009)

I followed this OP on planet ganaja but the forums beens down. I'm glad you actually posted on this forum as well.


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## Buddy Boiee (Apr 28, 2009)

That soil Pipe IS available in the U.S.
contrary to numerous insistances that it isnt.

Ill get a manufacturer and post it.

You *cant* just buy it anywhere, like HD or Lowes
YOU figure it out

Here's some quick stats for the setup

27 = 45 degree double sockets
4 = 90 degree double sockets
5 = Double socket pipe couplers
35 = pipe clips
and approx 8 x 3 metre lengths of pipe.

Its approx 5 foot tall
It is 62 inches external diameter and the same shape as the inside.
4 rows 8 inch spacing.

3 weeks as cuttings under fluros and one week in the system, normally i wouldn&#8217;t veg in the system but on this occasion I did.

I change the nutrients every 2 weeks, I am using Vitalink at an EC of 1.
I am using Vitalink on this grow but I also use Canna and Ionic which is the easiest to use as it is a one part nutrient.

system is partially drained once a week and new nutrients added.


at about 3 weeks into flower I usually trim the bottom third of the plants

The plants stay green because for the first two or three weeks of flower I keep them on veg nutrients to stop premature yellowing and leaf drop at the end of the grow.


----------



## Buddy Boiee (Apr 28, 2009)

Anyone catch what his pH is , maybe from any of the other sites hes posted on?

Hopefully he's busy dispensing the black Rose


----------



## nephilthy (Apr 28, 2009)

i think the 5 foot tall refrance reffered to the height of his black rose before flowering,anyways i found soil drainage pipe it comes with perforations or without thought it might help for aerification.anyways laid out on level with 6 sections of 2l inches for at total of 24 sections used with 45 couplers 3runs of 31 1/2 before 90 fitting that is where you want to put the dam with either a coupler or silicone in something ( i found a sour cream top fits inside the pipe !)then with 90 angling downwards at 45 angle roughly a section of 6 1/2 inches is need to ensure 3"spacing between runs into another 45 which should be in a position to allow another horizontal run.


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## BCtrippin (Apr 28, 2009)

Where is HR anyway??? Been a while since he posted.... Either something went horribly wrong or he is building some new monster...lol


----------



## Carbon (Apr 28, 2009)

Buddy Boiee said:


> Anyone catch what his pH is , maybe from any of the other sites hes posted on?
> 
> Hopefully he's busy dispensing the black Rose


Ph was 6. Temp 65F.

The only pipe I'm aware of this type in the US is used for pressure water mains --- "slip lock" is what i've always heard it called.

But fuck guys -- Heath laid out the basics (way more than the basics) -- use your heads a little !!!

Carbon


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## pinner420 (Apr 28, 2009)

Well on a positive note KNOWING we all hang on his every word but if I get the 2 gpw plus level I would be at club nirvana in Negrel Jamaica for a couple weeks partying like a rock star. Maybe hit Hawaii on the way home fuck ya. You know pay a couple strippers rent!!!!n


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## LoudBlunts (Apr 28, 2009)

Carbon said:


> Ph was 6. Temp 65F.
> 
> The only pipe I'm aware of this type in the US is used for pressure water mains --- "slip lock" is what i've always heard it called.
> 
> ...


haha first post ftw?


----------



## UserFriendly (Apr 30, 2009)

I hope that guy didn't register just so he could set noobs straight. Epic first post by the way.


----------



## LoudBlunts (Apr 30, 2009)

i agree


----------



## Thundercat (Apr 30, 2009)

I'm still wondering where heath has been at?


----------



## BCtrippin (Apr 30, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> I'm still wondering where heath has been at?


Yeah no shit..


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## UserFriendly (May 1, 2009)

Last I saw, Heath was posting at the Canna Cabana.


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## 420 4 fun (May 1, 2009)

UserFriendly said:


> Last I saw, Heath was posting at the Canna Cabana.


 I think he got sick of all the people that think he should be at their beck and call.


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## LoudBlunts (May 1, 2009)

UserFriendly said:


> Last I saw, Heath was posting at the Canna Cabana.


another forum?

old? new?

who's is it?


----------



## Thundercat (May 1, 2009)

I don't know about beck and call, I just love to see the crazy ass plants he grows. Dude has some serious skills, and experiance.


----------



## iloveit (May 1, 2009)

Id like to see Heath Robinson & Al B Fuct get together & perform a super grow, Id love to see that journal!


----------



## Buddy Boiee (May 1, 2009)

nephilthy said:


> i think the 5 foot tall refrance reffered to the height of his black rose before flowering
> very nice!! what is the size of that baby??? how tall tell u flower??
> H.R.Its approx 5 foot tall, and they have been in flower for a week.
> ,anyways i found soil drainage pipe it comes with perforations or without thought it might help for aerification.anyways laid out on level with 6 sections of 2l inches for at total of 24 sections used with 45 couplers 3runs of 31 1/2 before 90 fitting that is where you want to put the dam with either a coupler or silicone in something ( i found a sour cream top fits inside the pipe !)then with 90 angling downwards at 45 angle roughly a section of 6 1/2 inches is need to ensure 3"spacing between runs into another 45 which should be in a position to allow another horizontal run.


Just to clarify


----------



## GypsyBush (May 1, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Id like to see Heath Robinson & Al B Fuct get together & perform a super grow, Id love to see that journal!


Al would put an axe to that contraption...

I can hear him... fucking nightmare to clean... and I'm not a contortionist to get in there... not to talk about the non perpetual aspect of it...

Al is a lazy bastard, I just can't see him going for anything that generates more work...

Fuck just to build the thing... he is way too lazy...

They would fight and split I bet....

Still, in a hypothetical world, the two barrels of knowledge could come up with some far out shit....lol...


----------



## iloveit (May 1, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Al would put an axe to that contraption...
> 
> I can hear him... fucking nightmare to clean... and I'm not a contortionist to get in there... not to talk about the non perpetual aspect of it...
> 
> ...


Ha hah you probably right about that.


----------



## FLoJo (May 1, 2009)

what ever happened to al anyways, never see him around anymore...

and as far as heath... he comes and goes, and this grow has been over for some time... a lot of the questions have already been answered or the info is already here, so hes not gonna babysit the thread.. he obviously has a lot more important things to be doing LOL

prolly constructing some new monster


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## GypsyBush (May 1, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Ha hah you probably right about that.






FLoJo said:


> what ever happened to al anyways, never see him around anymore...


*Al B. Gone*


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## Thundercat (May 1, 2009)

lol gypsy you should see some of heaths other grows man. I don't think any of them are perpetual, but he has some sweet shit. Off his tree grow, he had a single cola that was over a pound alone. All his verticals yield ridiculous amounts too.


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## GypsyBush (May 1, 2009)

I know... 

I have seen him in a few other spots too...kiss-ass

I love contraptions... and I love vertical grows too... 

Believe me, I will build one of these...

I just figure I will learn how to do the SOG like a pro, then expand my horizons...

One cake at a time...

After some time, when I become a chef... I can start making my own recipes...

Oh shit wrong thread.. sorry guys...lol...


----------



## 420 4 fun (May 1, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> I don't know about beck and call, I just love to see the crazy ass plants he grows. Dude has some serious skills, and experiance.


 Yes, I like to see his pics as well, its a wonderful thing. I just sound pissed cuz many ppl are too lazy to read the whole thread, they would rather ask repetitive Q's and waste a GURU'S time rather than do a little simple searching. Kinda like the kid who comes to the lecture 15 minutes late and then asks the professor a question about what he already discussed at the start of the class.

Or asking him what color shoes was he wearing when he mixed the nutes. Very trivial stuff for someone of his stature.

JM stupid O


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## Thundercat (May 2, 2009)

I completely agree 420-4-fun. The same shit happens on any of the Guru threads. I try not to bother any of them with questions unless I REALLY need an answer about somthing, or unless I'm running their system, lol which I'm not.


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## UserFriendly (May 2, 2009)

LoudBlunts said:


> another forum?
> 
> old? new?
> 
> who's is it?


thecannacabana.com/forums/secure-login.php


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## iloveit (May 2, 2009)

Would somebody be so kind to send me a "cannacabana" referral please?


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## getwrecked (May 2, 2009)

this shit is amazing to me


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## danksmoker77 (May 26, 2009)

holy snakies that is amazing!!!!!!

I have new inspiration. I see a lot of systems in the gazillion threads I am obsessed with reading and this setup is by far the most efficient productive design I have seen. Screw callin it sea of green this shit is walls of green. Hopefully Heath returns anybody know where heath is??????


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## iloveit (May 26, 2009)

Thanks for uploading the new tease pics to the gallery Heath I assume Black rose should be in circulation soon


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## GypsyBush (May 26, 2009)

All I can say is WOW!!! 









Heath Robinson said:


> Welcome to *My Gallery*


All I can say is WOW!!!


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## iloveit (May 26, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> All I can say is WOW!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep those are the tease pics I was talking about. Looks like hes been very busy maintaining the "Black Rose" op. Nice going Heath.


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## Demosthenese (May 26, 2009)

wow. those teaser pics are amazing. 
Im totally inspired to do a stealth cab vert system. I used google sketch to design it, so it's on;y a visual reference, but its relatively accurate. Not to thread jack heath lol, but what do people think?


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## iloveit (May 26, 2009)

Demosthenese said:


> wow. those teaser pics are amazing.
> Im totally inspired to do a stealth cab vert system. I used google sketch to design it, so it's on;y a visual reference, but its relatively accurate. Not to thread jack heath lol, but what do people think?


Im considering modifying my cab it will probably end up looking like yours but I gotta put it on paper first, "He who fails to plan....plans to fail"  I cant recall who said that.
Be sure to start a grow journal of your op, when will it be up & running?


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## Demosthenese (May 26, 2009)

prbly not till the end of the summer. I've been pricing it out and i think it'll be about 1500 once i factor in the cost of a new strain to run in it. The 4 inch pipe is expensive in north america, and the 45 degree bends especially are like 10 bucks + each. I'm looking for a cheaper pipe alternative.
My favorite part about the system is the lack of stress; it's almost impossible for the system to kill the plants. As long as you check it every couple days, even an unoticed broken pump wouldn't kill them outright. i get scared if ive been away from my current aero system for more then 12 hours.
I was wrestling for a while with fitting this type of system inside a cabinet, but i think it will work well. The plants will all be within a foot or so of the light, and they would each have at least 12 inches to grow in. The chimney this layout creates will work well for air circulation and keeping heat down. Having the res in an independant chamber is excellent for both cleaning and res changes and keeping it chilled. Finally, you can fit up too 8 plants in each layer, and with 4-5 layers depending on height of the cabinet you could get upwards of 30-40 plants in this thing. If i can get 30-40 1/3-1/2 ounce plants in a 2'/3'/6' area ill be a happy camper.


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## iloveit (May 27, 2009)

Demosthenese said:


> prbly not till the end of the summer. I've been pricing it out and i think it'll be about 1500 once i factor in the cost of a new strain to run in it. The 4 inch pipe is expensive in north america, and the 45 degree bends especially are like 10 bucks + each. I'm looking for a cheaper pipe alternative.
> My favorite part about the system is the lack of stress; it's almost impossible for the system to kill the plants. As long as you check it every couple days, even an unoticed broken pump wouldn't kill them outright. i get scared if ive been away from my current aero system for more then 12 hours.
> I was wrestling for a while with fitting this type of system inside a cabinet, but i think it will work well. The plants will all be within a foot or so of the light, and they would each have at least 12 inches to grow in. The chimney this layout creates will work well for air circulation and keeping heat down. Having the res in an independant chamber is excellent for both cleaning and res changes and keeping it chilled. Finally, you can fit up too 8 plants in each layer, and with 4-5 layers depending on height of the cabinet you could get upwards of 30-40 plants in this thing. If i can get 30-40 1/3-1/2 ounce plants in a 2'/3'/6' area ill be a happy camper.



Sounds like youve given it a grat deal of thought. Make sure you PM me when you get it up & runnning.


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## Buddy Boiee (May 30, 2009)

*Demosthenese*- you'll be interested to see my version of this. Its taken several weeks to conceive,
But it dramatically cheaper to build
without sacrificing the important aspects of this system.

I'm building templates this weekend.

When I get the first piece done, Ill post up a new thread

Ill make note of it here when I start the project posting.

I've got to get it done asap because my last crop is just about two weeks out


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## Jimmy Luffnan (May 31, 2009)

Very very inspiring thread from Heath (long time crush) lol

If you make it back some time Heath... I was wondering if in your experience if there is a maximum flow rate that you can use without ripping the roots from the pots?

I know it is hard to calculate with factors such as tube diameter, pot depth, input pipe etc. all contributing the equation of the speed of the water vs how many liters actually pass through the system...?

Any advice for calculating this or can you provide a 'happy medium' flow rate? 

Cheers.


----------



## Skeksis (May 31, 2009)

Buddy Boiee said:


> *Demosthenese*- you'll be interested to see my version of this. Its taken several weeks to conceive,
> But it dramatically cheaper to build
> without sacrificing the important aspects of this system.
> 
> ...



Sounds good. post a link here when you do plz. This was an awesome project but somewhat advanced for the casual DIY'er. I wonder if anyone has a parts list for Heath's version though?


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## easypleasie (May 31, 2009)

I'm curious also with the flow rate. I'm gonna build something similar but for a tree run - well, at least big bushes  

This system, along with many of your other grows, has greatly inspired me. I have since switched to vertical and haven't looked back. Currently building a 2nd flower room to run experiments. And i've got a vert system idea that I haven't seen anyone do yet. Hope to get some feedback from the master when I get things going in about a month.

Hope you free up some time in your busy schedule to join us again. It's always exciting to have a Heath update! 

I actually hope you are finished with this thread cause that just might mean you're working on a new clever setup!


----------



## Buddy Boiee (Jun 1, 2009)

Skeksis said:


> Sounds good. post a link here when you do plz. This was an awesome project but somewhat advanced for the casual DIY'er. I wonder if anyone has a parts list for Heath's version though?


 I agree the set up is advanced, ingenious in my opinion

but the operation is the most simple
one pump up and in, 
constantly, low EC and good air flow up

Homie the parts are listed very first post
and i recapped the whole thing several posts ago


Heath Robinson said:


> Welcome to my latest vertical grow, this time around I am using 4" soil pipe, a 4000 litre per hour pump, and one 600w bulb.
> The internal diameter is 4 ft.
> 
> The build used 27 = 45 degree double sockets
> ...


----------



## Buddy Boiee (Jun 1, 2009)

BTW

I had to yank a VW engine

butIll get the template built ASAP


----------



## nephilthy (Jun 8, 2009)

though id post some older pics of my system almost up and running


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## Buddy Boiee (Jun 8, 2009)

nephilthy said:


> though id post some older pics of my system almost up and running


Helluva system there
I finally have some time this week open to get on my project.

A ticking vw engine got yanked
planting weather popped in for the OD
40 some holes later

we are set for summer

Ie got all kinds of stuff posted on another site (IC)
ill post my flood tube here though


----------



## MediMary (Jun 17, 2009)

subscribed


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## GypsyBush (Jun 17, 2009)

MediMary said:


> subscribed


What you got is what you get...

This grow is done...

I am not sure, but I believe we will see another Heath grow, before we see him here again..


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## MediMary (Jun 17, 2009)

yah I just noticed heath doesnt have many posts(like 80) but the ones he has are gold = )


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## MediMary (Jun 17, 2009)

hey loveit.. al be fuct said that...


----------



## Skeksis (Jun 18, 2009)

He kind of disappeared when his Black Rose seed run was getting close to finished. He promised a way to 
dist. some seeds through an online bank and haven't heard from him since.


----------



## westmich (Jun 19, 2009)

Hopefully he is not sitting in jail somewhere.


----------



## MediMary (Jun 19, 2009)

not even ... he was logged on here a couple days ago..


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## Skeksis (Jun 19, 2009)

I wonder why the silence then? I was really interested in getting some of those Black Rose seeds. Such a beautiful plant.


----------



## MediMary (Jun 19, 2009)

bro.. you cant buy or get seeds from other members on RIU, hell thats why overgrow got shut down!


Peace N luv


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 19, 2009)

Dudes...

This grow is done...

He will probably pop back in... but I bet we will see him again in another thread for another one of his magical grows...



and may I suggest ditching the negative talk... people leave all the time without getting busted... 

That's how rumors get started and people freak out...

And MEDIMARY is right... let's work together so we don't loose RIU to silly, avoidable stuff...

Cheers...


----------



## Mitus (Jun 20, 2009)

My hat is off to you sir... you have inspired some new creations for me 

-Mitus


----------



## Skeksis (Jun 20, 2009)

MediMary said:


> bro.. you cant buy or get seeds from other members on RIU, hell thats why overgrow got shut down!
> 
> 
> Peace N luv



I'm completely aware of that. He never said he was going to distribute seeds to members of RIU. He just said 
that he might let us know where they could be available through a seed bank. Maybe too many people became
interested and he felt it would be too much risk. Either way, Heath is a genius and a great guy for letting people
on here learn from his experience. 

Peace


----------



## Jimmy Luffnan (Jun 21, 2009)

Heath Robinson said:


> Welcome to my latest vertical grow, this time around I am using 4" soil pipe, a 4000 liter per hour pump, and one 600w bulb.
> The internal diameter is 4 ft.





Heath Robinson said:


> A 400l per hour pump is more than enough I run this one on a bypass to reduce the flow, one 600w is perfect for this system but it could easily run with 2x600w but It would benefit from another row. non of these things are set in stone and good results could be had from smaller dimensions and wattage's.
> 
> here is my auto cad which explains how the system and adjustable water levels are controlled.


Ummm, Heath states 4000l pump in first post and them 400l pump on page 5....

Im pretty sure he means 4000l, or at least I hope so or somebody is going to rip their roots out to sea like a storm drain! lol

Please verify


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 21, 2009)

On this picture, you can see the physical size of the pump...

I would be willing to say that pump is more in the 100gph than in the 1K gph...

I'll stick my neck out and say that is probably a FOUR HUNDRED liter per hour pump.... it's just a small pump...



Master Keith Robinson said:


> *Empty res showing brown pipe return, and the pump with bypass fitted.*


----------



## sobelsaint (Jun 23, 2009)

I have a couple of questions. Say you wanted to stay under the 99 plant limit and you built a vertical grow like this with 99 plants. If you use 2 600 watt bulbs or maybe even 3 600 watt bulbs would that add significantly to the end yield? Does Heath run CO2 in a sealed room environment? If not I take it that would add to the yields as well.

Do you run an MH bulb to keep the plants short? If you were to run say one mh and one hps or even two hps bulbs would you run into problems of your plants stretching to much?

Figure 8 inch cool tubes 3 600 watt bulbs (2hps and one MH) 99 green crack plants starting about 6 inches tall running co2 in a sealed room with perfect climate. Think you could get an ounce per plant or is that dreaming? I would love to hear Heaths opinion on this.

On a seperate topic I have heard that a 1000 watt bulb is not beneficial for vertical and 600 watt is the way to go any reasons why exactly?


----------



## sobelsaint (Jun 23, 2009)

Also maybe add 3 UVB bulbs to make the buds extra sticky.

Any ideas on how to make this plan better is cool.


----------



## MediMary (Jun 23, 2009)

I think what heath created was meant to be simple. and By hitting 2.1 grams per watt one of the most efficient grows out there. I cant really see anywhere to improve on this already great design, except to use cool tubes, seal the room and add co2. 
but its a pretty awesome setup the way it is.. if your going to add more lights make the room taller and veg the plants longer. as heath says its up to you to design whats good for you.. 
not him design something for you.


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 23, 2009)

I'd like to see someone beat his g/w on this grow...


----------



## sobelsaint (Jun 23, 2009)

Well not trying to have him design me something just curious if adding more light would help at all or if more is not better. Vegging more would not be beneficial as it takes more time but I am just curious if you can get to much light. (Assuming the temperature was kept under control) I definately do not want to go over 99 plants so that is why I ask how to possibly make it better. I would have to try it and see but I would love some good input on this. How much did he say it ran to make these?


----------



## MediMary (Jun 23, 2009)

read the whole post eh.. it says on page 1
yeah GB thats the highest I have personally ever seen myself. 2.1 
just beautiful ! thanks heath


----------



## sobelsaint (Jun 23, 2009)

well would you still be able to get 2.1 with another light in there that would be double!!! I know that would be extreme but just wondering about adding another light. Even if you get 1.5 with two 600 it would be better.


----------



## Jimmy Luffnan (Jun 24, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I'd like to see someone beat his g/w on this grow...


...I think I might...


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 24, 2009)

Jimmy Luffnan said:


> ...I think I might...


Sounds like an empty promise to me...

Care to elaborate how???


----------



## Jimmy Luffnan (Jun 24, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Sounds like an empty promise to me...
> 
> Care to elaborate how???


With a different strain of course Gypsy
When I am done I will show you my friend


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 24, 2009)

So you are building a system like his? 

I'll say it's possible... with a lot of effort...

Don't forget me... I'd really like to see what you do...

Do you keep a journal currently?

When do you plan to start?

Cheers Bro!!!

Best of Luck...


----------



## Jimmy Luffnan (Jun 24, 2009)

sobelsaint said:


> well would you still be able to get 2.1 with another light in there that would be double!!! I know that would be extreme but just wondering about adding another light. Even if you get 1.5 with two 600 it would be better.


I believe the idea behind Heath's grow is to utilize the most efficient yield that can be produced from the lowest watt globe... eg. grams/watts.

If you added another 600w globe, then you would need to yield twice as much to equal the g/p... which is what this is all about

I believe a 600w globe is ideal for a 4x4 area... which is why his setup is about 4x4 in dimensions.... but as opposed to normal downward light and using a floor space of 4x4, by using vert, you can surround the light with more plants to achieve a better g/p... 

Cheers.


----------



## sobelsaint (Jun 24, 2009)

I am talking about adding another light in the middle so it would not affect anything except maybe heat


----------



## Jimmy Luffnan (Jun 24, 2009)

sobelsaint said:


> I am talking about adding another light in the middle so it would not affect anything except maybe heat


Well, 4x4 vert space + 600w bulb is at about peak efficiency imo 

If you added a second 600w bulb, I would change the vert dimensions to 8ft high x 4 wide to keep the same efficiency 

I would steer away from CFL's for this kind of growing...

Simply because you need LOTS of lumens to try and minimize the stretch of the plants due to the angle and space constraints involved, not to mention what happens generally when a plant cant support the bud weight

Imagine that on a plant that is already off balance to begin with....

Could always 'vert scrog' though...?
Cheers.


----------



## MediMary (Jun 24, 2009)

why you guys clogging heaths thread with silliness.. make a new thread.. 
no offense.

peace n luv


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## sobelsaint (Jun 24, 2009)

Ya Jimmy what your saying makes a lot of sense now that you elaborated on it. Thanks for the help.


----------



## Shackleford.R (Jun 25, 2009)

i totally missed this grow but damn i'm subscribing so i dont lose this thread to check out later. awesome grow, and hats off to you sir!! well done!!!


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 27, 2009)

Hey Shack..

Did you see Heath's big tree grow???

Check *this* out...

Critical Mass tree grow x 2


----------



## purpledank31 (Jun 27, 2009)

that setup is awesome, if only i could do something like that, lol.


----------



## MediMary (Jun 27, 2009)

heath should make hydroponic equipment. = )


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## Skeksis (Jun 27, 2009)

Agreed. He could make a fortune off of his ingenious designs alone. I know if I could get one of his
vertical systems in a kit, versus the junk that's on the market now, I would buy it in a minute. I'm just
not much of a DIY'er.


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 27, 2009)

I believe Heath has made his point...

Clearly he is a POT GROWER..... not a plastic parts dealer....


----------



## Skeksis (Jun 27, 2009)

Yes, and one of the most inventive at that. But we noobs can dream can't we?


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 27, 2009)

Skeksis said:


> Yes, and one of the most inventive at that. But we noobs can dream can't we?


We can and we SHOULD dream...

of buds covered in trichs...  amongst other things...


----------



## MediMary (Jun 27, 2009)

lol, this pic is posted in every thread im reading.. its beautiful though gypsy.. nice to look at= )


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 27, 2009)

we all have our 15 minutes of fame...

I agree I over-share sometimes...

Sorry...


----------



## nickbbad (Jun 27, 2009)

I can't find that self sealing pipe anywhere Im in the US. Can anybody give me a link to somewhere that I can get it in the US so I can price it. Or if not any ideas on making one that I can break down and resetup if needed or add to etc. Any help will be appreciated.


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## MediMary (Jun 27, 2009)

I have been looking myself with not much luck, cant seem to find the self sealing stuff. if you find it, please post the link here


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## GypsyBush (Jun 27, 2009)

what's wrong with pvc glue...? 

just asking...


----------



## MediMary (Jun 27, 2009)

eh honestly I never fucked with plumbing much, dont know to much about it, some how it always seemed worth paying the plumber, than dealing with shit. literally.


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## GypsyBush (Jun 27, 2009)

They allow it to be used in the pipes that carry your drinking water...

I think it should be plenty safe for the plants.. unless that is not the reason why you want fancy pipes.....

I'm just curious...


----------



## MediMary (Jun 27, 2009)

curious about what? you lost me buddy


----------



## nickbbad (Jun 27, 2009)

well with pvc glue once you have it up you would have to cut it up to get it back down and I want to be able to move it easily if needed.


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 27, 2009)

Gotcha...

and these re-use-able pipes don't leak?

Well if they market it as a product than prolly not.. but I'd be scared...

Threads are OK too if you use teflon paste or tape...

But in all honesty, you would have to cut it dozens of times before it became a problem...

Just slip a joint in with some more glue and your back in business...

Takes what?!? 45 sconds for that shit to bond...??

Just a thought....

Trying to play the devil's advocate you know...


----------



## Jimmy Luffnan (Jun 28, 2009)

The sealant in question can be re-broken if necessary.

It is safe to use as yes, it it used to seal many PVC pipes including those for drinking...

If purchasing PVC pipe I would recommend that you ask for 'Lead free pipe'...

Is still commonly used today, but is not used for down pipes on houses (for water tanks) or any kind of plumbing that is ducted for drinking water....

Cheers Jimmy.


----------



## nickbbad (Jun 28, 2009)

Jimmy thank you that is good to know how would go about breaking it? You also need them to move if you plan on using the dam idea of his otherwise you would not be able to drain them easily....Anyway I think I found some things that may help people out who want one that will move and break down easily. This company fernco seems to make a lot of different flexible connectors here is a few that may help someone out looking to make one these systems. 
*Fernco 4" Qwik Tee*






around 20$ 
*4" Fernco Qwik Ell*






around 15$

*4" Fernco Flex Coupling 
*






about4-5 $


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 28, 2009)

oohhhh I smell leaks...

or at least the chance of...


----------



## iloveit (Jun 28, 2009)

Have you tied searching for "soil vent pipes"? Thats what its called here in U.K.


----------



## sobelsaint (Jun 28, 2009)

SDR-35 Gasket Seal 4"


----------



## nickbbad (Jun 29, 2009)

Thank You


----------



## sobelsaint (Jun 29, 2009)

You only really need the angles and couplers with gaskets and the tube can be regular sdr-35. You can search online to find the 90s and the 45s for about 7 bucks each but the actual tubing you should find locally because shipping is a pain in the ass on a 10 foot long tube.


----------



## nephilthy (Jun 29, 2009)

in the usa sd-35 is the standard produced by black diamond plastics,ferguson,


----------



## HappySack (Jul 2, 2009)

You can use the US DWV, and a ball valve. Take the ball valve and turn it to the side, the ball valve will then become an adjustable damn. Mark the positions before installation. A gate vale installed upside down will work. 4" ball valve is pricey, so are gates. But this 4" DWV sys glued will not leak. The hardest part of this sys is building it. It can be adapted to numerous configurations. You can configure it to have a doorway if you want. 4 of them can run perpetual with the right strain.


----------



## caddyluck (Jul 2, 2009)

ok I'm going to chime in here, I was excited to find this thread---I've seen other forums with his set-up. quite the bummer this grow is gone, I have purchased a 60" Max Tube in hopes of doing a vert,Aero of course! I'm currently building my mothers up so it's still going to be a couple months---BUT when I do, oh baby, WHEN I DO! I'll be posting pics. yeah baby. too many babys there? NEVER


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 11, 2009)

nephilthy said:


> though id post some older pics of my system almost up and running



Updates?


----------



## Wemp (Jul 11, 2009)

Im inspired


----------



## Heath Robinson (Jul 21, 2009)

A big thanks to you all for keeping this thread going with your comments and system ideas,

here are the pics from the latest run:


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 21, 2009)

Fuckin' Righteous Mate...

You are one of the true Master Growers of RIU...

Thanks you for sharing your knowledge with us... and allowing the next generation to stand on your shoulders...

THANK YOU!!!


----------



## Heath Robinson (Jul 21, 2009)

And more:





























































Heath


----------



## Heath Robinson (Jul 21, 2009)

cheers* GypsyBush* much appreciated, thank you for stopping by 

Heath


----------



## easypleasie (Jul 21, 2009)

Thanks for the update Heath! So glad you're still staying active with the forums. Where else can we see your grows? I've learned more from reading your threads than any other single source. Thanks mate!


----------



## potpimp (Jul 21, 2009)

Wow, what a great system!! Heath, I noticed that you have tried several different systems, as I have. What is your favorite one so far and what, if anything, would you do differently on the next one?


----------



## iloveit (Jul 21, 2009)

I just want to know which brand/model of ballasts you use in the 600W range.


----------



## Realclosetgreenz (Jul 21, 2009)




----------



## pinkus (Jul 21, 2009)

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!


----------



## Oldschooler (Jul 21, 2009)

Lmao , great work and setup you buildt there ... thats what pays off in the end as shows on your pictures ...damn!

The more work and love you put in to building your grow room the better results ... thats just amazing nice work.


----------



## MyGTO2007 (Jul 21, 2009)

One Word
BADASS!!!!!


----------



## CaptRedfish (Jul 22, 2009)

Heath, thanks for returning and updating. Great system!! Quick Question, do you have each row at a slight angle or are they level until the 45 degree bend?


----------



## TokesBowls (Jul 23, 2009)

merahoon said:


> Has anyone been able to find 4'' pipe in the US. I have been trying to find some and its damn near impossible. I'm thinking about just walking into home depot and asking if they carry it. Their site doesn't say that they have it but you never know.


 
Home Depot sells 4in abs black sewer pipe for 10 buck for 10 ft long. i use it all the time


----------



## Buddy Boiee (Jul 28, 2009)

Glad to hear ya peep Heath
Again,
bravo!
I've been talking about this art piece all summer,
I tour music festivals on the US West coast
Funny thing is NO ONE can visualize this machine
Oh well, had fun rappin about it with folks, maybe inspired

I Keep peeking on SB, never see them BR's up for grabs-purchased or as a bonus
Ill keep my eyes open

Almost done with touring so I can sit down before fall harvest and get on my version of your eloquence
Shootin you a PM about...


----------



## Buddy Boiee (Jul 28, 2009)

nephilthy said:


> hello was wondering if you knew where to find the soil pipe heath was using,I don't even know the name of the material.thanks


I did, special order at home depot, had a flyer book chained to the rack in the sewer pipe department. NO ONE knew anything about those parts.
They are more of a construction grade material. Contractors stores would be your best source.

I gave up on em because of the expense

Im eventually get on the project, using regular 3" pvc sched 40 and for the adjustable collars,
Im going to get out the dremel and grind out a goove in the connector slip piece.
in that groove im going to go to the industrial place in town and get an O-ring that sets in the groove and seals to the 3" pvc.
Im going to make a large wooden template with dowls at each of the hexagon shapes points
Cap the ends of the long pipe, heat and bend around the template to form the shape of the system
takes about 18 feet around if the closet point is 2ft from center
each level will be cut in half for transportation and probably joined with the home made seal as well as those seals at each dam point


----------



## alp2420 (Jul 28, 2009)

wow im just amazed!!! 

to infinity and beond!!!! im def jumping aboard this space ship, lol


----------



## abellguy (Jul 28, 2009)

Just found the thread, so I see your still using the continuous system, incredible for sure, love the colors in some of those pics!  Do your leaves stay green till the end in that system?


----------



## iloveit (Aug 11, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> All I can say is WOW!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How did you post multiple pics like this?


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 11, 2009)

iloveit said:


> How did you post multiple pics like this?



It's called COPY & PASTE...

speaking of which...

I was just coming over here... to share ... this...

WAAAAY overpriced.. but not that bad to make...


http://www.everestgardensupply.com/index_HYGS.php


----------



## proheto8008 (Aug 11, 2009)

heath, thanks for sharing your awesome revolutionary hydro vert setup.

Also i was wondering how many sides this had to it... do you have a space that is empty so you can get to the inside?


----------



## proheto8008 (Aug 11, 2009)

also to all you vertical guys... here is a new place dedicated to just vertical growing. 

It has a few journals up already check the site out.

www.verticalgreen.org


----------



## diggitydank420 (Aug 11, 2009)

Simply amazing!


----------



## tahoe58 (Aug 12, 2009)

First Class, Grade A Triple A Rated .... FukinAAA .... unreal .... love this thread ... sorry to have missed it so far ... but read thru and on board ... many thanks for all your hard work and excellent effort. Walk On!!~~~~ 


Heath Robinson said:


> And more:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Foolieo (Aug 12, 2009)

wow that is a awesome set up man. nice job!!


----------



## potpimp (Aug 13, 2009)

Awesome awesome awesome thread!! One of my favorites.


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## farel2 (Aug 13, 2009)

Crazy set up Heath!!!!! Vertical grows are looking more and more interesting to me!!

Do you find it harder to take care of a bunch of little plants or a few monsters???


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## MyGTO2007 (Aug 14, 2009)

That is fucking SICK As It Gets!!!


----------



## tahoe58 (Aug 14, 2009)

both of you deserve major kudos for creativity and craftsmanship! Walk on!!~~~~ 


MyGTO2007 said:


> That is fucking SICK As It Gets!!!


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## twisted lemon (Aug 15, 2009)

hay fantastic grow heath, your work is inspirational . read through all of your journal and was mesmerized from the beginning ! however i do have a couple of questions if you dont mind, first. with so many plants do you not worry about hermy action pollinating a percentage of your crop what i mean is how on earth do you keep on top of all those plants ?
secondly, and this relates to the first but how much time do you spend on plant maintainance ?

thanx again heath your a star 
rep + sub


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## greenyield (Aug 22, 2009)

*Heath Robinson*, 
would you mind scribbling up a few pages of plans on how to build this flooded vertical and posting them on here, it would make the job of building this thing easier for me. I think i could manage building the pipework although i dont know what lenghts you cut the straight pipes, i could probably work it out by how many net pot holes there are in the pipe, thats if they are the 50mm ones. There are almost no pics on constructing the frame so i would have a problem with building that but i could build it in stages as i put the pipework together, time consuming though. Also an inventory of materials would be usefull. Im interested in the distance between the holes, measured from the nearest edge of one hole to the nearest edge of the neighbouring hole, the length of the straight pipe after you cut it down from 3m and the framework. one can only hope that the weed god known as Heath Robinson will have the time to do this.


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## SOG (Aug 23, 2009)

greenyield said:


> *Heath Robinson*,
> would you mind scribbling up a few pages of plans on how to build this flooded vertical and posting them on here, it would make the job of building this thing *easier for me.*


he did!
you need to do your home work, then ask your questions?
if this is too much for ya, your in the wrong field
people here will be more then happy to help
you gotta help yourself first


----------



## greenyield (Aug 23, 2009)

SOG said:


> he did!
> you need to do your home work, then ask your questions?
> if this is too much for ya, your in the wrong field
> people here will be more then happy to help
> you gotta help yourself first


 if you know that he already posted plans on this then perhaps you could have given me a clue as to where they are or you could have answered my questions on his framework and what size of net pot the holes were cut for and even maybe how long he cut each straight pipe that runs from one 45 degree double connector to the other 45 degree double connector. i will help myself by having the balls to spend the money and build this thing because i believe in it.


----------



## diggitydank420 (Aug 23, 2009)

greenyield said:


> if you know that he already posted plans on this then perhaps you could have given me a clue as to where they are or you could have answered my questions on his framework and what size of net pot the holes were cut for and even maybe how long he cut each straight pipe that runs from one 45 degree double connector to the other 45 degree double connector. i will help myself by having the balls to spend the money and build this thing because i believe in it.


The point was that you should look through the thread, my friend.


----------



## greenyield (Aug 23, 2009)

diggitydank420 said:


> The point was that you should look through the thread, my friend.


hello diggitydank420 
i have looked through the whole thread, although i got bored of the repetitive questions from the people that were too impatient to read the whole thread for answers that have already been answered by the man himself (heath robinson) i did start to quickly scan through for heaths replies after about page 38, just to see if he answered what i was already looking for and i did not see what i was looking for (could i have missed it??). he has not visited this page for some time now so i guess he is busy doin what he does, as i would be if i was him. i want this setup really bad and i guess i will have to just take my chances on my own with regard to the measurements of each straight tube and net pot diameter,frame size etc. it just upset me that some person called:- (SOG) probably took me for a newby that had not looked at the whole thread or the gallery pics of heaths build....pleeease, go and toke a bit more and leave the discussion to people who *DO* not those who dream (SOG). the only guy that can answer my questions is heath himself not some onlooker that wishes he had what heath has- (SOG). i will go it alone people, i will build it to my own specs although im not great at geometry type stuff.


----------



## SOG (Aug 23, 2009)

greenyield said:


> leave the discussion to people who *DO* not those who dream (SOG).



lol, 
sorry bra didn't mean to offend you
that's just our humor, you'll find it; one day 

here you go 
page one, post one, of this thread 
will guide you through what you need to accomplish
you will need to figure your size based on your space, 
he explains the concept of his system in details
I'm sure he doesn't have exact measurement
for every piece in the puzzle, angles etc.. are all mentioned 
now go do some reading, hmm... and some math 
enjoy


----------



## diggitydank420 (Aug 23, 2009)

Page one, post one... LOL


----------



## romano (Aug 23, 2009)

Heath , Obviously great job!! Question- Is your ferts,temps,humidity, etc. listed in this thread? I know its alot to ask ,could you list those again here. Aside from the great build ,what factors give you results like fluffy roots! or long white healthy roots ? Or really green leaf from begining to end !or no signs of stress .Or just up ,happy leaves in general. Thanks

I see you grow large and small plants,is there better quality in one or the other?

Did you find the dam(housing) HAD to be movable ,Should I seal a dam housing if needed w/silicone or did you find the movability of the dam better than a permanent seal?


----------



## iloveit (Aug 23, 2009)

greenyield said:


> hello diggitydank420
> i have looked through the whole thread, although i got bored of the repetitive questions from the people that were too impatient to read the whole thread for answers that have already been answered by the man himself (heath robinson) i did start to quickly scan through for heaths replies after about page 38, just to see if he answered what i was already looking for and i did not see what i was looking for (could i have missed it??). he has not visited this page for some time now so i guess he is busy doin what he does, as i would be if i was him. i want this setup really bad and i guess i will have to just take my chances on my own with regard to the measurements of each straight tube and net pot diameter,frame size etc. it just upset me that some person called:- (SOG) probably took me for a newby that had not looked at the whole thread or the gallery pics of heaths build....pleeease, go and toke a bit more and leave the discussion to people who *DO* not those who dream (SOG). the only guy that can answer my questions is heath himself not some onlooker that wishes he had what heath has- (SOG). i will go it alone people, i will build it to my own specs although im not great at geometry type stuff.


Hey there Greenyield, although Im not in the process of building a setup like this but Im always interested in the small details which lead to a successful operation plus I pay great attention to all of Heaths words of wisdom & workings so I thought Id help you out a little:

The net-pots Heath used are 3 inches.

Now as for the dimensions you need to ask yourself one question "At what distance will the plants need to be from the bulb (at any wattage) to hit a good penetration range?"
Well if I wanted to gain the maximum yield using this system Id use a light meter then build it accordingly.

http://www.teamworkphoto.com/images/sekonic/L-758DR.jpg


----------



## iloveit (Aug 23, 2009)

romano said:


> Heath , Obviously great job!! Question- Is your ferts,temps,humidity, etc. listed in this thread? I know its alot to ask ,could you list those again here. Aside from the great build ,what factors give you results like fluffy roots! or long white healthy roots ? Or really green leaf from begining to end !or no signs of stress .Or just up ,happy leaves in general. Thanks


He uses Vitalink 2 part nutes which are specially suited for U.K. water.

Heath manages to keep the roots white & nice & healthy by constantly giving them dissolved oxygen he does this by having the circulation of water on at all times.

To prevent the leaves from yellowing he feeds veg nutes for the first 2 weeks of flowering.

You see no signs of stress well... because heath is obviously an experienced grower a real veteran. Im guessing hes learnt what to do * what not to do in the beggining stages of when started growing.


----------



## proheto8008 (Aug 23, 2009)

greenyield said:


> hello diggitydank420
> i have looked through the whole thread, although i got bored of the repetitive questions from the people that were too impatient to read the whole thread for answers that have already been answered by the man himself (heath robinson) i did start to quickly scan through for heaths replies after about page 38, just to see if he answered what i was already looking for and i did not see what i was looking for (could i have missed it??). he has not visited this page for some time now so i guess he is busy doin what he does, as i would be if i was him. i want this setup really bad and i guess i will have to just take my chances on my own with regard to the measurements of each straight tube and net pot diameter,frame size etc. it just upset me that some person called:- (SOG) probably took me for a newby that had not looked at the whole thread or the gallery pics of heaths build....pleeease, go and toke a bit more and leave the discussion to people who *DO* not those who dream (SOG). the only guy that can answer my questions is heath himself not some onlooker that wishes he had what heath has- (SOG). i will go it alone people, i will build it to my own specs although im not great at geometry type stuff.


Hey friend, 

I know how hard it can be digging through 500 posts just looking for one single bit of info... (like how did you couple your tubing with your end cap) so i am going to be building out this system as best as i can over the next month. I will detail every aspect with pics and put together as detailed plans as i possible can. 

Im gonna be posting these plans and pics on 

www.verticalgreen.org


stay tuned. Ill post up when i finish


----------



## aharo0426 (Aug 24, 2009)

i dont seem to understand the feed tube set up are you using individual feed lines or one for the entire system and if so how i plan on replicating this only with the addition of fog


----------



## greenyield (Aug 24, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Hey there Greenyield, although Im not in the process of building a setup like this but Im always interested in the small details which lead to a successful operation plus I pay great attention to all of Heaths words of wisdom & workings so I thought Id help you out a little:
> 
> The net-pots Heath used are 3 inches.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I use 2" pots to clone cuttings using aeroponics, it would have been spot on if all i had to do was pop in my 2" pots of rooted clones. i can work out the length of the straight pipe now i know they are 3" pots in there.


----------



## aharo0426 (Aug 24, 2009)

ok i went back and looked at the pix one more time i see how the feed tube works but i have on more question does anyone know where i might buy this sort of pipe in or around california


----------



## greenyield (Aug 24, 2009)

SOG said:


> lol,
> sorry bra didn't mean to offend you
> that's just our humor, you'll find it; one day
> 
> ...


hey SOG, i wanted to make an exact replica of heaths system but i guess i will just have to take my chances and do some guessing on the straight pipe length, shouldnt be too far off though. this system is easy when you see the parts, they just push fit together. 

i had read through this thread for about 6 hours the other day so i was pissed off when i couldnt find any answers on certain things, thanks to everyone for the help.


----------



## greenyield (Aug 24, 2009)

proheto8008 said:


> Hey friend,
> 
> I know how hard it can be digging through 500 posts just looking for one single bit of info... (like how did you couple your tubing with your end cap) so i am going to be building out this system as best as i can over the next month. I will detail every aspect with pics and put together as detailed plans as i possible can.
> 
> ...


thanks for that proheto8008, im going to look in the aquatics shops for the pipe couplings on the end caps and see what i can find. I went to price up the pipework and fittings in wickes yesterday, man they are pricey, they are cheaper on drainstore.com. i cant build this thing and put it into use for another couple of months as my room is occupied at the moment, that wont stop me from buying the parts though. i will look forward to watching your project.


----------



## iloveit (Aug 24, 2009)

greenyield said:


> thanks for that proheto8008, im going to look in the aquatics shops for the pipe couplings on the end caps and see what i can find. I went to price up the pipework and fittings in wickes yesterday, man they are pricey, they are cheaper on drainstore.com. i cant build this thing and put it into use for another couple of months as my room is occupied at the moment, that wont stop me from buying the parts though. i will look forward to watching your project.


Ah so your from the U.K. too, I reckon Wickes is way better than B&Q in terms of quality.
Make sure your frame is firmly fastened to the ground or at least stable because when the system is running the water will add on more weight plus flowing water creates momentum.


----------



## greenyield (Aug 24, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Ah so your from the U.K. too, I reckon Wickes is way better than B&Q in terms of quality.
> Make sure your frame is firmly fastened to the ground or at least stable because when the system is running the water will add on more weight plus flowing water creates momentum.


im gonna go just a little bit off topic for a moment.
before i saw this thread i had looked at the eco-system and the coliseum and at 2grand each i thought no way man, 
i had an idea that im going to try before anything else. 
i bought a 122cm diameter paddling pool which im going to use as the reservoir, i will put some plastic blocks around the inside edge so i can rest a sylindrical chicken wire frame on them just above the water level. the chicken wire frame will have plant support canes woven through vertically to give it some strength.
then im going to tie 22 rockwool slabs vertically to the inside of the frame so that water will drip back into the reservoir after it passes through the rockwool. i will prob have to support the frame on the outside aswell to stop it from leaning to one side or falling. i will buy a cooltube on sale and remove the stupid reflector from it to give me a clear tube then suspend it into the middle of the slabs by using garden wire. 

i just need a pump capable of drip feeding the whole 22 slabs if that is possible, ive been looking at 3000 and 4000 ltr an hour pond pumps. 
any thoughts anyone?


----------



## SOG (Aug 24, 2009)

i believe he only floods the top part
then lets the rest gravitate through the system down
he uses the flood gate to control the flood level

i don't think you need that strong of a pump for that


----------



## rollin20crip (Aug 24, 2009)

amazing how much did that set you back


----------



## iloveit (Aug 24, 2009)

greenyield said:


> im gonna go just a little bit off topic for a moment.
> before i saw this thread i had looked at the eco-system and the coliseum and at 2grand each i thought no way man,
> i had an idea that im going to try before anything else.
> i bought a 122cm diameter paddling pool which im going to use as the reservoir, i will put some plastic blocks around the inside edge so i can rest a sylindrical chicken wire frame on them just above the water level. the chicken wire frame will have plant support canes woven through vertically to give it some strength.
> ...


Something like this?

https://www.rollitup.org/members/heath-robinson-albums-heath-picture17485-dscf3323.html

https://www.rollitup.org/members/heath-robinson-albums-heath-picture17484-dscf3329.html

https://www.rollitup.org/members/heath-robinson-albums-heath-picture17483-dscf2762.html


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## easypleasie (Aug 24, 2009)

greenyield, 

Heath has a bunch of different vertical setups floating around the web. If you can't find info here, check out some other sites. Google is our friend  Too bad some of those sites are no longer around as they would have provided you with even more insightful reading material. Some questions that haven't been answered here have been answered elsewhere. Imagine if you were the one answering tons of questions from everyone (often the same questions) on multiple forums! And for FREE! It's not his job. He's not promoting anything, just showing us different ways to grow efficiently. It's up to us to take it from there. He's provided more than enough information. 

If you really want to build it exactly, then you're gonna have to do some more digging around. And MATH! lol Gotta have some patience, bro. If you don't find it the first time, read the thread again! Some things will "click" after you read it more than once. And take notes! You'll be able to answer your own questions instead of "sounding" like a newb. Which is really easy to do when you're just typing your thoughts in front of the computer. Things will come out the wrong way. And having any kind of attitude won't get you any help! I'm sure there would be a lot of people that would have replied but...LOL!

We're fortunate this is even on the web. Otherwise, you'd be completely on your own and we'd never get to enjoy Heath's work. Even If you don't build it, the info alone is priceless. 

Oh, and it's a lot to ask anyone to draw up plans for you. Just to make your life easier! See how that comes across? I do like his CAD diagrams! haha 

It's all experimental so nothing is set in stone. It's not gonna destroy your harvest if you're an inch off. This system can be built hundreds of ways. 

And people like sog, iloveit, myself and many others have already invested the time to learn. It's best if you give it the same effort and without the smart ass remarks to existing members that have been around a while. You'll probably laugh at yourself when you discover how easy this system is to build. Heath did all the hard work. You just gotta use your brain a little now.

Best of luck!

edit: here's a little link for you. Full of his vertical setups.
http://www.breedbay.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=87204&mode=linear#post87204


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## iloveit (Aug 24, 2009)

greenyield take a look at Heaths album gallery that may help.


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## greenyield (Aug 25, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Something like this?
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/members/heath-robinson-albums-heath-picture17485-dscf3323.html
> 
> ...


yes! iloveit, that is the idea but mine will not look so professional. it will be a rushed job with low cost setup in mind (although, rockwool will be £70),but will work ok. i just want to do a vertical to see what difference i can get in weight from one bulb.
i would like to post some pics when i get it setup but how do i upload pics to the forum from my computer? it asks what url i want to upload the image from.


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## iloveit (Aug 25, 2009)

Click on manage attachment then click on brows then select your pic one at a time then click upload.


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## drizzyrogers (Aug 25, 2009)

how man babies do you grow in one crop??


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## proheto8008 (Aug 25, 2009)

Just FYI for all those who are looking for the pipe that Heath uses.

Google Search "FloPlast Pipe" and youll see that it is only available in the UK. http://www.fascias.com/home.html?target=dept_200.html&lang=en-gb

However the closest thing ive been able to find is this at home depot


Polyethylene Solid Drainage Pipe 
Model # 4550010 
Store SKU# 189781 

however it is not available at every store. So youll have to see if your local stores carry it.

I was thinking about building up my system using the flex corrugated drainage pipe. That would make a build alot simpler, However i think the corrugated ridges would make it very hard for cleanup.

Any ideas?


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## nephilthy (Aug 26, 2009)

the system you want depends on light usage so with the 600 max 28 inches from bulb so of the 27 -22 degree couplers heath use 24 divided by the 4 runs = 6 twenty two degree couplers per level.the other three are used to meet small section of pipe coming off of the 45 degree angle bends .
this is with either schedule sd- 35 or the scedulr 40 pvc found at ho depot.
so mesuring the ho depot coupler account for the fact that 4 inches of pipe material needs to be inserted into coupler.
20 1/2 inches goes into 126 6 times so those were the lengths i used.when assembled you should have 28 inches to center of circle all the way around.I made my final section a litle longer as i couldn't recess resevoir into ground.
i don't have pics to post but had some problems with heat and root rot initially so it fucked up my yields,but after doing a cycle heres a couple of points.
if you use glue dont overdue it priming will insure the pvc material is softened toaccept glue.
when gluing level service keep all bends same position or you will have a section of pipe sloping downward or upward if they arent leveled when glued.
where a respirator if your in a confined area m.e.k. will make you into a space cowboy if you breathe that crap not healthy toxoids.
when joining join completely butt the pipe completely into coupler while giving a 1/4 turn twist.
don't use perforated drain soil pipe!
the less connections the better!you can bend pvc pipe..but fill with sand to prevent kinking on bends you can use a heat gun starts to become pliable at 330 degrees but have a good level template!
after ensuring each level is leveled equidistanced from others good idea to cut 3" net pots sites before assembling makes sure they are rough 10-12 degree angle off of top center pipe.
whatever light you want to use figure max effective throw so a 1000 watt dunno say 4 feet would mean you would need 48 inches all the way around center of where bulb would be so you would have an 8 foot circle .
a 400 watt effective throw 18 inches so 3 feet across
whatever light you use do the layout on a flat surface take good measurements and bear in mind lengths you are cutting to ensure you have minimal waste=money.
a 4000 lire pump equates to 1000 gallons an hour which is overkill you copuld get away with 100 gallon per hour pump with an airstone .
also if you don't use heaths sd-35 standard ensure you have a dam at the end of the run that you can adjust I had sour cram lids cut in half glued to last coupler at end of each level.well as root mass got big started leaking with the 320 gallon an hour pump I had perforation some leaks led me to knock out the dams towards end of the run .
ensure you have good a.c. or chiller to keep res and room temps optimala nd you will avoid root rot
keep your humidity below 50 percent powdery mildew is a bitch out here on west coast.
my latest thougt for a good dam would be to cut a slot into top of coupler where my dam site will rest against the inside rim of coupler then attach a small thin peice of metal to my dam in my case a sour cream lid work perfect for schedule 40.and instead of gluing lid i will pull up the attched piece and bend over slot to raise,lower or remove dam.a piece of venetian blind or earthquake strapping would work well as they are thin yet strong.
hope you find this usefull.


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## proheto8008 (Aug 26, 2009)

nephilthy said:


> whatever light you want to use figure max effective throw so a 1000 watt dunno say 4 feet would mean you would need 48 inches all the way around center of where bulb would be so you would have an 8 foot circle .


if i use a 1000 watt cool tube then i should be able to use a system the same size as heaths right?


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## nephilthy (Aug 26, 2009)

yea but it's about effeciency and lumens or grams per watt if you do a 1000 based on 600 distance you would have less sites less yield than with a 1000 which should have another 2 0r 3 levels with probably a bunch more net pot sites with a cool tube you could definitely bring closer to light,but i think a vertical scrog would be more helpful,though a cool tube would alleviate any fears about water or anything else dangerous coming into contact with bulb.
bear in mind whatever your are shooting for yield,potency are subjective matters to the individual so adjust to personal preferance.I would think for yield with a thousand you could achieve 40 percent more weight than heaths 46 oz so probably another 20 oz or so if everything was successful.


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## BoxedIn (Aug 27, 2009)

DAmn. i just read this thread straight through. i've been trying to plan a 3x3 with 4 tiers. vertical SOG and this thread has made me feel way better about only having a 600 watt lamp. I thought it wasn't going to be enough light, but i stand corrected. It should be the perfect amount. damn i can't wait to get things looking like this... oooo i'm getting a stiffy thinking about it lol. maybe i could even do 5 tiers since they'll be 3 feet long on each side... anyways, this thread isn't about me. HEATH!!!! you crazy SOB, add me to your list of supporters, i don't see why people are still growing on the flat ground lol.


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## greenyield (Aug 27, 2009)

would it be possible to make heaths flooded vertical with the longer length 90 degree bend tubes and straight pipe with the 90 degree tubes at three corners to make the vertical more of a square shape that will fit inside a 1.2 meter tent without loosing yield?

of course the 4th corner would have heaths water level control pipe gadgets and the 90 degree downward sloping tubes to let the water flow to the level below.

any thoughts anyone


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## nephilthy (Aug 27, 2009)

no. the effective throw of a bulb is circular in its intesity of lumens measure the tent you would better off maintaining a circular pattern as the corners where you want the 90 would be furthest from bulb,and hence suffer least amount of growth comparatively to those closer.
if you don't want to buy couplers you can bend pvc with a heat gun,but pvc should be filled with sand,or maybe dirt to prevent kinking on bend.pvc melts at 330 f.if its 7 feet wide or 6 heaths system should fit in your tent.


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## greenyield (Aug 27, 2009)

nephilthy said:


> no. the effective throw of a bulb is circular in its intesity of lumens measure the tent you would better off maintaining a circular pattern as the corners where you want the 90 would be furthest from bulb,and hence suffer least amount of growth comparatively to those closer.
> if you don't want to buy couplers you can bend pvc with a heat gun,but pvc should be filled with sand,or maybe dirt to prevent kinking on bend.pvc melts at 330 f.if its 7 feet wide or 6 heaths system should fit in your tent.


i dont mind spending the money on 45 degree couplers, i was just playing with the idea of fitting it into a 4ft by 4ft space and then i could have 2 of em side by side.


the heath robinson of the early 1900s:-

*Heath Robinson* poked fun at the machine age of the mid-1900's and the inventors who took their machine inventions so
seriously. He became famous for his drawings of ridiculously complex and very impractical, ricketty inventions, all designed
to perform absurdly simple tasks. He was also a well-know book illustrator. His book illustrations were just as detailed as his
cartoon-style machines.
His name was also given to a secret and complex code-cracking machine invented in England during World War 2.
His name is often used to describe a piece of equipment which seems unnecessarily complicated, looks as if it *might* work,
but will probably fall to bits while doing so! We describe such a machine as *"a bit Heath Robinson".*

*whom ever heath is on the forums, in my opinion he is an educated fellow to come up with that name. that is just brilliant.*
*i notice heath has not posted for some time, could he be doin time... or is he in the big brother house?...lol.*

*hey heath can ya play the electric guitar, haha. or do you have a big country home with lots of rooms, hehe i hope your gonna be back soon pal with some more kooky ideas (meanining crazy, but great).*


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## nephilthy (Aug 27, 2009)

for a 4by 4 enclosed space i would do 2 400 s optimaly in a cool tube so you would have perfect throw for your area.you would have to lose a level so i would run 7 levels with two400's 3 with 1 400hell you might be able to fill that sucker and go 3 400's so 10 levels that would be a little chaotic but it's conceivable.running differant combos of bulbs as you move from veg to flowering.
heaths circular pattern was determined on optimal throw of a 600 so if you have a smaller or larger bulb or space figure the optimal wattage bulb/size system for your conditions.so with 4 levels on a six 3 would be max for a 400 maybe 3.5 if you ussed two 400
with a thousand you could safely add two to 3 more levels.
but if all you have is a six hundred get a cool tube or moniter your plants /temps maybe cut veg time down to 1 week so you wouldn't have them getting fried by the bulb.


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## iloveit (Aug 27, 2009)

greenyield said:


> i dont mind spending the money on 45 degree couplers, i was just playing with the idea of fitting it into a 4ft by 4ft space and then i could have 2 of em side by side.
> 
> 
> the heath robinson of the early 1900s:-
> ...


Heath is definitely around hard at work on his breeding.


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## abellguy (Aug 29, 2009)

greenyield said:


> i dont mind spending the money on 45 degree couplers, i was just playing with the idea of fitting it into a 4ft by 4ft space and then i could have 2 of em side by side.
> 
> 
> the heath robinson of the early 1900s:-
> ...


funny insite!! lol


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## MisterMicro (Aug 29, 2009)

NICE


We should make a Vertical club and show all these fools whats up!

Did you get that design from strainguide.org?


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## nephilthy (Aug 30, 2009)

greenyield said:


> would it be possible to make heaths flooded vertical with the longer length 90 degree bend tubes and straight pipe with the 90 degree tubes at three corners to make the vertical more of a square shape that will fit inside a 1.2 meter tent without loosing yield?
> 
> of course the 4th corner would have heaths water level control pipe gadgets and the 90 degree downward sloping tubes to let the water flow to the level below.
> 
> any thoughts anyone


 if you overlaid a perfect circle over your perimeter you would notice that the corners are outside of circle if you make your sites equidistance from bulb and avoid the corners it would work optimally


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## Demosthenese (Aug 30, 2009)

i have recently been looking into using the corrugated 4" plastic drainage pipe for a small verticle closet grow. I can see a few potential downsides off the bat, but i've never used the stuff so i don't know...

1- no joints, so slightly harder to put in the half moon damns. However, as long as u can silicoln sealent to this stuff you could cut a slot in the top of the pipe at the appropriate location and glue in the damn. You'd have no control via the damns on the water level once they were in though...
2- wooden supports required, since this stuff would want to bend out of whatever you placed it on youd need to thread it through a wooden frame. lot of work, although not undoable.
3- will this stuff hold it's shape with a bunch of 3 inch holes drilled in it? i would be planning to have a 3 inch hole and then a 2 inch gap and then a 3 inch hole. How much integrity does the plastic have? could it be bent out of shape by a 10-20g plant and hydroton and such?
4- how tight a bend can this stuff do? like will it bend on it's own 4 inch axis, allowing it to be laid against itself? or does it require a larger area to make a full 180 bend? will 4" bend upon itself without kinking inside of 12"?

Those are my potential worries. Any thoughts? The reality is that if you could use this corrugated drainage stuff instead of pvc, abs or any other plastic piping, it will shave arround 150-200 dollars off of piping cost. This stuff is literally pennies compared to the 13$/ 90 degree bend that 4" pvc costs. I was already planning to heat bend some of the 90's myself if i end up going with pvc/abs, but the 180 bends would still need to be fittings. I'd much rather use this stuff and well insulate it with reflectix.


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## greenyield (Aug 31, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Heath is definitely around hard at work on his breeding.


aah, breeding you say.

i would like to get my hands on some of his clones specifically bred for vertical growing or even beans.

hey man, ive started building a frame to hold drainpipe in a vertical of 1.2m sq, much like heaths mini vertical but slightly wider diameter.

i will be running it as an nft system, i would like to start my own thread on it but i cant for the life of me find the frickin start new thread option.


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## greenyield (Aug 31, 2009)

abellguy said:


> funny insite!! lol


lol. oh yes, i was drunk when i wrote that.

man, all im thinking now is how cool of a grower is heath.

thanks for putting your plans and journals up here for us all to follow pal.


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## Demosthenese (Sep 1, 2009)

ok, so i went to HD and checked the corrugated tubing. I think it could be used as a replacement for pvc in a system where you have lots of small bends. In such a system, the bendiness of the tubing is maximized. However my system where i mostly need 90 and 180 degree bends, the corrugated tubing probably wouldn't save me all that much money. To do a 180 bend the tubing needs about a foot and a half of room, more then my small system will allow for, so it wouldn't be optimal. The corrugated tubing also costs 10.98/10 feet at my hd, and so the 3-4 feet of tubing needed for the bends will cost almost as much as the 4.99 it will cost for a pvc 90 degree bend. Although it would still end up being slightly cheaper, the ability to dissasemble the thing and also the ease of putting the dams into a system with pvc piping and joints outweigh the cost reduction. I will be using 4" PVC sewer pipe for my vert system, 12.49/foot. With four tiers, 6 feet per tier, ill need 3 10 foot pipes and 16 90 degree bends. If i add in the hole saw at 40$ the piping should end up arround 160$. I may also need to cover it in reflectix, but we'll see.
Aside from that, 200 on the ikea cabinet, 200 on a 450 CFM fan, 500 for a digital 600w hps/cooltube deal and 100 on the pump. The whole cab should end up around 1200, and it should grow me 48 plants every 60 days, at 10-14g dry/plant, giving me at least 480g per harvest. I'll post pics and stuff once it's built and running; it should be within a couple weeks. I cut clones in preperation for this thing yesterday, and im just waiting on school money to build it.


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## nephilthy (Sep 1, 2009)

i posteed this before you havef to have special plugs for pvc or fill with sand to the point that kinking does not occur while heating and bending.want to refrain from keeping dams unmovable as when root structures grow you may get overflow.the inside of couplers allow for a dam to rest on a lip inside you could drill a slot and place dam while if attaching something to pull dam up when roots get to big or changing res.


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## proheto8008 (Sep 1, 2009)

MisterMicro said:


> NICE
> 
> 
> We should make a Vertical club and show all these fools whats up!
> ...


There already is a vertical club. Its called www.verticalgreen.org give it a visit.


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## paradoxical (Sep 2, 2009)

Couldn't you use a 2 inch net pot in this instead of 3 inch? I'm thinking of using the same piping, but with two inch net pots. The roots are inside the pipe anyway.

Will this stuff hold it's shape with a bunch of 3 inch holes drilled in it? i would be planning to have a 3 inch hole and then a 2 inch gap and then a 3 inch hole. How much integrity does the plastic have? could it be bent out of shape by a 10-20g plant and hydroton and such?


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## greenyield (Sep 4, 2009)

paradoxical said:


> Couldn't you use a 2 inch net pot in this instead of 3 inch? I'm thinking of using the same piping, but with two inch net pots. The roots are inside the pipe anyway.
> 
> Will this stuff hold it's shape with a bunch of 3 inch holes drilled in it? i would be planning to have a 3 inch hole and then a 2 inch gap and then a 3 inch hole. How much integrity does the plastic have? could it be bent out of shape by a 10-20g plant and hydroton and such?


 
the pipe clips that hold the pipe to the frame will provide support to the pipe so it shouldnt bend.

you may want to think about how far you space your plants apart, if you get them too close then they will suffer as their roots will grow and intertwine with the neighboring plant.

i use 2" net pots to grow cuttings in and wondered if there would be any difference in yield if i used the 2" instead of the 3".
the only way to find out is to do it and see for yourself IMO.

im going to be using 2" net pots in a mini vertical using drainpipe just to get an idea of what to expect yield wise.


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## Demosthenese (Sep 4, 2009)

there should absolutely not be a yeild difference. Medium is very irrelevant when it comes to a full hydroponic setup, especially DWC like these mini verts. As long as it supports the plant weight properly, any ammount of medium should work. the size of the netpots usually corresponds to plant size only because people growing lager plants start with larger netpots. The two inch net pots would be fine for anything that doesnt have a 2.5 inch stem at the base.


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## paradoxical (Sep 4, 2009)

That's what I thought. I read "Harvest a pound every three weeks" by Stink Bud, which is an excellent thread, and he uses 4 by 4 plastci fence posts with 2 inch net pots. It looks like he drills a small hole at the bottom of the net pot and pushes the stem through, and then uses a neoprene collar to hold it. No medium whatsoever.

I saw some 3 inch flex corruagted black drain pipe at Home Depot today, and thought it could be used. Only $45.00 for 100 feet, and you could just make a circle out of it that goes up 4 levels. What do you all think? Would a 3 inch cortrugated pipe be too skinny for the roots?


Demosthenese said:


> there should absolutely not be a yeild difference. Medium is very irrelevant when it comes to a full hydroponic setup, especially DWC like these mini verts. As long as it supports the plant weight properly, any ammount of medium should work. the size of the netpots usually corresponds to plant size only because people growing lager plants start with larger netpots. The two inch net pots would be fine for anything that doesnt have a 2.5 inch stem at the base.


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## nephilthy (Sep 5, 2009)

give it a whirl don't think you need a dam site as long as water is flowing and roots are long and healthy ala heaths clones.fuck using a hole saw get a 3"circular drill with a guide bit.


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## iloveit (Sep 5, 2009)

nephilthy said:


> .fuck using a hole saw get a 3"circular drill with a guide bit.


Whats that could you show me a random pic from the web please.


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## fallinghigh (Sep 5, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Whats that could you show me a random pic from the web please.


 here ya go


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## iloveit (Sep 5, 2009)

Ahh right I thought you were talking about another piece of kit Cheers mate.


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## proheto8008 (Sep 5, 2009)

Hey you guys, 

Can anyone here tell me why Heath uses an EC of only 1.0? I heard someone say that super low ec on these systems is preffered. Why is that? I always thought you wanted to max out the EC that the plants could handle.


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## nephilthy (Sep 6, 2009)

proheto8008 said:


> Hey you guys,
> 
> Can anyone here tell me why Heath uses an EC of only 1.0? I heard someone say that super low ec on these systems is preffered. Why is that? I always thought you wanted to max out the EC that the plants could handle.


 heath grows great bud using less nutes and feels less is more perhaps.


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## Demosthenese (Sep 7, 2009)

i thought an ec of 1.0 was like 1300 ppm or something. i certainly remember reading heath say that the reason his plants could take the HIGH ppm was the high flow rate.

the 3 or 4 inch corrugated plastic tubing would work well for a colliseum style vert grow, but it doesn't bend tight enough to make a mini 3 sided vert. i don't think you'd have too much problem with roots jamming a 3 inch pipe.


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## kiffytoi (Sep 7, 2009)

well he obviously didn't have any probs...
an ec of 1.0 is 500ppm 640ppm or 700 ppm depending on which meter you have


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## RobMar (Sep 8, 2009)

wow, thats all I can say. I might try this setup.


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## proheto8008 (Sep 8, 2009)

nephilthy said:


> heath grows great bud using less nutes and feels less is more perhaps.


what im saying is this...


How does he get the best/highest yields of bud on the web with only an EC of 1.0. Is there a technical reason why this low EC is atually better than a high EC?

Please do not respond with your opinions. I am a technical grower and i like real answers. No offense to you nephilthy, but that is your opinion. I was more so looking for a solid answer from a hydro grower who actually knows for a fact why heath does that. Maybe even an answer from Heath Himself.


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## Demosthenese (Sep 9, 2009)

im almost positive heath answered this somewhere along the way. i'll do a read through tonight if i can motivate myself to read the 50 pages again.


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## SOG (Sep 9, 2009)

efficient lumen distribution

EC is not the only factor
just like a human, if your not hungry you wont eat
it doesn't matter how much food your presented with

your environment conditions will influence the girls feed volume



Heath Robinson said:


> 7, The best way to use 2x600w is to have one above the other, this vertical is designed to have another row so I can use 2 x 600w.
> 
> 8, To maximise yield you have to surround the bulb, and the optimum internal size is 4ft so it would be multiples of those dimensions.
> 
> ...


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## Buddy Boiee (Sep 9, 2009)

higher EC levels create problems for carrier ions to transport its requirements. Causes lock out and lock up. 
If you're used to "slam 'em till they burn then back it off"
You'll probably think your plants are light green or unhealthy looking.

Lower EC levels are recommended "professionally" regularly


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## Heath Robinson (Sep 9, 2009)

proheto8008 said:


> what im saying is this...
> 
> 
> How does he get the best/highest yields of bud on the web with only an EC of 1.0. Is there a technical reason why this low EC is atually better than a high EC?
> ...



Good to see this thread is still alive and full of good ideas and questions.

I will go into detail about nutrient concentrations because it seems to be an area which a lot of growers don't fully understand.

I have seen quite a lot of bad advice from experienced growers who advise to "increase the nutrient concentrations until you see tip burn and then back off slightly" I will try explain why this is bad advice.

Nutrient salts can cause harm to plants if they are in high enough concentration in water or soil. This effect is mainly indirect by pulling moisture out of roots and reducing the uptake of water and nutrients to affected plants. This is the cause of tip and edge burn of leaves, if the nutrient concentration was maintained, slow growth, nutrient deficiencies, wilting and eventual death of the plant would occur if the problem is not corrected. 

This is the reason why, Water movement in plants is a factor of osmotic pressure and capillary action. Osmotic pressure is defined as water flowing through a permeable membrane in the direction of higher salt concentrations. Water will continue to flow in the direction of the highest salt concentration until the salts have been diluted to the point that the concentrations on both sides of the membrane are equal.

A good example of this is pouring salt on a slug or snail, the salt concentration outside the slug is highest, which causes the water from inside the slug's body to cross the skin membrane. The slug becomes dehydrated and dies. 

For osmosis to occur, water must move from a more dilute (the nutrient solution) to a more concentrated compartment (the plant). If you were to water your plant with sea water the plant would wither and die as the salt water now extracts water from the plant instead of replenishing it. So basically high levels of salinity will lead to high concentrations of salt in the plant tissues which will severely damage metabolic processes.

here is a grow chart which will help explain why there is no advantage to feeding your plants high nutrient concentrations.







notice on the chart that there is a deficient zone where the plant is not meeting its needs and growth is poor. A low zone where the plant is growing but lacks all the necessary nutrients to sustain good growth and yield.

Now the important part, you will notice if you look at the sufficient and high zones that there is no advantage to feeding your plants at higher concentrations than is needed. Notice also that growth and yield suffers sharply once the plant is over fertilised. If you feed your plant until it is toxic and showing signs of tip burn and you back off slightly you are still in the excess zone and your yields will suffer to some degree.

I have found that the sufficient zone for marijuana is in the range from an Ec of 1.0 to 1.6 I personally run in at an EC of approx 1.2 and never exceed 1.4

I hope that helps explain why I do what I do.


Heath


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## nickbbad (Sep 9, 2009)

As always great info heath. Thank you for all the advise you have given.


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## iloveit (Sep 9, 2009)

Perfect explanation cheers Heath.


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## sparat1k (Sep 9, 2009)

Heath wonderful info thank you, I'm converted lol.


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## SOG (Sep 9, 2009)

Heath Robinson said:


> notice on the chart that there is a deficient zone where the plant is not meeting its needs and growth is poor. A low zone where the plant is growing but lacks all the necessary nutrients to sustain good growth and yield.
> 
> Now the important part, you will notice if you look at the sufficient and high zones that there is no advantage to feeding your plants at higher concentrations than is needed. Notice also that growth and yield suffers sharply once the plant is over fertilised. If you feed your plant until it is toxic and showing signs of tip burn and you back off slightly you are still in the excess zone and your yields will suffer to some degree.


Thanks Heath
a very creative way of explaining 

personally I'm still in a learning curve, not expressing my opinion
simply my analysis of this diagram and what you have been kind enough to share with us in great detail

here's what I'm drawing from your chart
first i see a sharper drop being in the critical value area then in the mild area
next, the time-line it will take to drop from sufficient to low vs. high to low will be much longer

hence; if your in the high area, your safe zone is wider 
since ppm usually drop and do not increase by themselves

plants may pick and choose from the mix, 
you can be in safe area with one ingredient
and ath the same time lack another
it will be hard to tell which one is missing 
when you have s narrower margins of error

its obvious to me you'd be better off being higher then low

i'm also observing in my lil veg unit, the girls started at 800ppm (EC .5)
few days went by the ppms went up to 830
that means they have been taking the water and eating almost evenly
since they grow like animals in the mean time
I'm assuming there is a portion in my mix they prefer less at this point

wouldn't you rather let them choose instead of restricting them?


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## Heath Robinson (Sep 10, 2009)

SOG said:


> Thanks Heath
> a very creative way of explaining
> 
> personally I'm still in a learning curve, not expressing my opinion
> ...




Hi SOG

you can take from the information what you will, I am not telling you to do one thing or the other, just explaining why I do what I do.


I do not "restrict" my plants in any way, once a plant has sufficient for its needs it is a pointless exercise to increase the nutrient concentration as it will not increase yields, growth or anything else. 

good luck with your grow


Heath


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## Bob Marley Chiefs (Sep 10, 2009)

Heath Robinson said:


> Good to see this thread is still alive and full of good ideas and questions.
> 
> I will go into detail about nutrient concentrations because it seems to be an area which a lot of growers don't fully understand.
> 
> ...



alright Heath so if you keep the ec down lower than 1.6 is there less salt build up in a ebb and flow system or does an ec of 1.0 build up the same amount of salts as 1.6?


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## morrisgreenberg (Sep 10, 2009)

wow i am so happy theres someone with actual technical data to back this up, a while back Earl told me to run lower PPMS, like 800-900, gave it a try and started to notice i found a sweet spot of where as water was consumed, nutrients consumed at the same rate or faster. with higher nutrient concentrations you will notice ppms climb as water gets low requiring to add back plain water, making PH flucuate, causing lock outs and nute burns. since i used earls advice i never had happier healthier plants EVER with such stable PH....guys less is more and its always a good thing to find the sweet spot where you see the ppms go down, this is good, means your plants are actually using what you are giving and lets you know you can bump it up. no more pedal to the metal and wasting nutrients...good stuff heath


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## iloveit (Sep 10, 2009)

This chart shows that EC/PPM meters vary from brand to brand http://www.cannaversity.com/cannaversity/idx.php/22/041/article/Charts-to-convert-ppmECCF.html so does this mean that an EC of 1.0 on your meter may be different to mine?

This has been on my mind since the time I began to grow would you be able to clear this up for me please.


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## sparat1k (Sep 10, 2009)

In theory ec measurements shouldn't change that much between manufactures. Ppm conversions can vary largely due to what conversion factor they use. I recommend you use ec to compare with others. That said, I wouldn't try to put much effort in trying to match some1 elses ec. The point of taking measurements are whether YOUR nutrient's ec have gone up or down relative to the day before. Cheers


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## Heath Robinson (Sep 10, 2009)

iloveit said:


> This chart shows that EC/PPM meters vary from brand to brand http://www.cannaversity.com/cannaversity/idx.php/22/041/article/Charts-to-convert-ppmECCF.html so does this mean that an EC of 1.0 on your meter may be different to mine?
> 
> This has been on my mind since the time I began to grow would you be able to clear this up for me please.


EC and CF are the same worldwide and regardless of meter manufacture. 

I always use EC as it avoids possible confusion which happens when quoting ppm. As sparat1k has mentioned different manufacturers use different conversion factors on their ppm meters .








Heath


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## iloveit (Sep 10, 2009)

Just what I needed to know... sigh. Thanks uncle Heath.


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## proheto8008 (Sep 11, 2009)

Now thats the answer i was looking for! Thanks so much Heath.


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## iloveit (Sep 11, 2009)

Oh I almost forgot... When building your vertical systems how do you decide the distance between the section of plants & the bulb? The plants need to be within a sweet spot range without getting burnt so how do you know where the sweet spot is? Im guessing you used a light-meter...? Right?


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## Healing Herb (Sep 11, 2009)

Hello Heath,

Been lurking your threads for a while now...
SUSCRIBED !!

Not trying to hyjack...
Big fan of your systems. I am 3 grow Soiler finishing up my last cycle and switching to Hydro. I have been considering a new vertical flower room set up for my 3x3x7 using a modified aerotower set up. But the more I read the more I like the idea of your hybrid ebb/flow. If you or anyone reading this would like to give an opinion on which way I should go please check out my thread:
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/240055-soiler-reforming-bubble-aeroponics-vertical.html#post3060186

I still have about 40 days of 12/12 before harvest. Then I will be ripping out the old and building the new. Thanks.


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## Billy Liar (Sep 13, 2009)

Heath, good to see you are still alive and well.
hope life is treating you well.
the info in this thread is second to none!
just building room for my new vert, its a v-scrog, with the waterfarms, hope to get fotos up here next week.
Peace and love
BL


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## Healing Herb (Sep 13, 2009)

Ok so I am rethinking the Aero Tower. Biggest concern with AERO is the clogging of the misters. Also cleaning and sterilizing between grows. The more I read and SEE the pics! on Heath Robinson's tube set ups I have come up with a new SIMPLE design based on HEATHs. I call mine the 2 X 7 Grow Luge ! (my space is 2' x 2' x 7' vertical)

The Dams will be the biggest challenge I think for me. For cost reasons this will be all 4 inch PVC (available at the local HDDP) not the soil tube that Heath uses. My guess is that if I pre assemble each tube with dams I should be able to find and set the correct hight and angle of the dam for optimum water level... then as long as I keep a level on the pipe while setting it up outside the booth - and when I mount it inside there should be no need for adjusting the dam... am I right? - or missing something.

I thought I would also use a 350 GPH pump with a BYPASS to adjust flow... overkill? Would a 230 GPH work better and add less heat to my RES ? (16 gallon rubbermaid - 12- 14 gallons of water)

Any reason to add bubbles to the RES or is this just overkill considering the water flow oxenization... guessing the later considering Heaths grows... or does my smaller scale effect this ya think?


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## proheto8008 (Sep 14, 2009)

where did all the pictures go?


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## greenyield (Sep 17, 2009)

greenyield said:


> i use 2" net pots to grow cuttings in and wondered if there would be any difference in yield if i used the 2" instead of the 3".
> the only way to find out is to do it and see for yourself IMO.
> 
> im going to be using 2" net pots in a mini vertical using drainpipe just to get an idea of what to expect yield wise.


ok, i changed my mind at the last minute and went for a smaller version of the flooded vertical that is a diameter of just under 4ft, i will be transferring my clones from my 2" net pots to 3" to go into the vertical. it can be tough work pushing some of these fittings together heath, damn, im knackered...haha.


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## iloveit (Sep 17, 2009)

greenyield said:


> ok, i changed my mind at the last minute and went for a smaller version of the flooded vertical that is a diameter of just under 4ft, i will be transferring my clones from my 2" net pots to 3" to go into the vertical. it can be tough work pushing some of these fittings together heath, damn, im knackered...haha.


Your doing good so far nice & neat keep it up but dont rush it.


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## Demosthenese (Sep 22, 2009)

well ive done it, ive built a mini vertical system in a tiny closet, it houses 40 plants and will start a run with some rather unfortunately delapidated clones tommorow. I'll post pics tommorow too, but it's a 4 layer system built with 4' pvc, 10 plants per layer, verticle 600w hps in a cooltube powered by a 450 cfm vortex extractor fan and a 700 gph pump. 
More tommorow.


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## bobhope1925 (Sep 23, 2009)

greenyield said:


> ok, i changed my mind at the last minute and went for a smaller version of the flooded vertical that is a diameter of just under 4ft, i will be transferring my clones from my 2" net pots to 3" to go into the vertical. it can be tough work pushing some of these fittings together heath, damn, im knackered...haha.


try using silicon grease they'll go together easily, and it helps the seals become more watertight.you should be able to get it where you bought the pipes


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## JahMedic (Sep 23, 2009)

Well Heath its nice to see your up to the same crazy ass shit . Take it easy


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## Demosthenese (Sep 23, 2009)

pics of my mini cascade vertical hydro.


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## VertFarmer (Sep 24, 2009)

Thank you so much for putting in the effort in educating the rest of us Heith, a true gent! I know this is an ancient thread, but if you happen to stumble by I would love to know how you deal with the obscene amount of clones needed. You said you cloned from the vert 1 week into 12/12. Do clones veg fine if cut taken in early 12/12? Also, if it's a true 7 weeker strain you're keeping clones/veg for 7-1=6 weeks before 12/12. Is it a problem keeping them from stretching for that much time? Could you elaborate on your strategy for this as # of clones is the biggest minus imo?

Demosthenese, wicked closet btw!


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## greenyield (Sep 25, 2009)

greenyield said:


> ok, i changed my mind at the last minute and went for a smaller version of the flooded vertical that is a diameter of just under 4ft, i will be transferring my clones from my 2" net pots to 3" to go into the vertical. it can be tough work pushing some of these fittings together heath, damn, im knackered...haha.


 im off and running now.


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## iloveit (Sep 25, 2009)

greenyield said:


> im off and running now.


What type of connector did you use to attach the water source pipe to the system...? Was it some sort of pipe gland?

Could you take a few more pics please cause you got it going on her he he.


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## greenyield (Sep 25, 2009)

iloveit said:


> What type of connector did you use to attach the water source pipe to the system...? Was it some sort of pipe gland?
> 
> Could you take a few more pics please cause you got it going on her he he.


it is a plastic 90 degree elbow joint with screw type washers that screw on over the connecting pipe.

it has screw caps at both ends of the elbow joint, the other screw tight is inside the stop end of the 4" pipe, i just tightened them up by hand, didnt have to use any plumbing tape or adhesive to water tight it.

the noise and vibration from the 2000 liter pumps made me paranoid of the neighbors hearing so i turned them off and used 2x 1000 liter per hour pumps with garden hosepipe fed into the first hole on the top tube and the third tube down, it seems to be working but i wish i had the big boys running for maximum oxygen and fast flow rate.


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## iloveit (Sep 25, 2009)

greenyield said:


> it is a plastic 90 degree elbow joint with screw type washers that screw on over the connecting pipe.
> 
> it has screw caps at both ends of the elbow joint, the other screw tight is inside the stop end of the 4" pipe, i just tightened them up by hand, didnt have to use any plumbing tape or adhesive to water tight it.
> 
> the noise and vibration from the 2000 liter pumps made me paranoid of the neighbors hearing so i turned them off and used 2x 1000 liter per hour pumps with garden hosepipe fed into the first hole on the top tube and the third tube down, it seems to be working but i wish i had the big boys running for maximum oxygen and fast flow rate.


I can see where youve joined the 2 x water supply pipes but what is the additional garden hose for tucked in the net pot? I can see 2 x pumps & 3 garden hoses, whats the job of that third one?


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## DubB83 (Sep 25, 2009)

You can make a rubber band isolation system to reduce pump noise.


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## greenyield (Sep 25, 2009)

DubB83 said:


> You can make a rubber band isolation system to reduce pump noise.


i dont understand what you mean!

the pumps have suction cup type feet to stick to the bottom of the nutrient tank, the sheer power of the pumping force causes vibration noise through the floor boards that the tank is laid upon, and an extra factor on top of that, the 2000 litre per hour pumps cause the water in the pipes to flow faster and make a noise like a fucking massive water fountain in my little spare room that keeps me awake at night thinking that im at the fucking seaside paddling in the surf...haha

what is the rubber band isolation system?


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## DubB83 (Sep 25, 2009)

Replacing the suction feet by suspending the pump between posts on rubber bands. Is there any way to add something to your waterfall that fallows the flow of the water from the end of the plumbing to the bucket so the water does not splash so much as flow. 

Make any sense?


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## greenyield (Sep 26, 2009)

DubB83 said:


> Replacing the suction feet by suspending the pump between posts on rubber bands. Is there any way to add something to your waterfall that fallows the flow of the water from the end of the plumbing to the bucket so the water does not splash so much as flow.
> 
> Make any sense?


yes, it stops the buzzing from the pumps motor slightly, still too loud with rushing water that is amplified through the hollow space in the tubes.

easiest thing is to relocate the grow to somewhere more remote and private.


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## VertFarmer (Sep 26, 2009)

Greenyield: Sweet craftmanship dude! The cool tube I would skip until bud get so close that you risk fire or frying buds.

I'm super overly rediculously motivated for building a few of these set ups for commercial bud. So it would be brilliant if it was possible to pool your experiences with this system (I'll be posting mine when I'm up and running). Perhaps you could be persuaded into writing a grow journal for your own grow? Pretty please with sugar on top?

Can you tell me a little about the dimensions of your set up, i.e. length of the straight pipes, space from one net pot to the other, space between levels, liters running through the system per min or hour etc. 

I'm quite paranoid about excessive power consumption (I've set my maximum risk level to be be approx. and will be running 4*600W on a switch i.e. no stealing electricity). That means 24/7 of 1200W. I've been thinking a lot about how to max out yield with this limit on electricity. For instance flowering 1 week old vegs for the first week of 12/12 in the aerocloner under 250W to minimize light waste in the big vert (while simultaneously growing previous crops in the verts). Running 12/6 dark/light cycle for the last two weeks or reducing to 50% light intensity the last week or two when there's no real growth, only maturing of buds etc. 

Any info is appreciated. Cheers Vertfarmer


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## Dapps420 (Sep 27, 2009)

That setup is amazing my friend! I hope to have one similar some day, perhaps when I get into my own home, rather than an apartment!


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## neiltoosweet (Oct 1, 2009)

Wow totally sold on the pro's of vertical grows, not that i think for one moment that i could replicate this awsome grow, but recon i can sure improve my personal stash!
can anyone tell me where to buy the light fixings for a vertically hanging bulb, as i cant find on my searches, ta all!


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## Wemp (Oct 1, 2009)

I would love to do a verticle grow, it is only a matter of time before i start mine...

I dont know if im going to do anything as complicated as this for my first vert grow, but i do want to try the drip system aswell


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## iculikeit (Oct 1, 2009)

heath i had a question about the spacing of your holes in the pipe how many inches apart are they or greenyeild if you could help with this ty


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## proheto8008 (Oct 1, 2009)

Read the thread... THis question has been answered a million times


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## greenyield (Oct 2, 2009)

neiltoosweet said:


> can anyone tell me where to buy the light fixings for a vertically hanging bulb, as i cant find on my searches, ta all!


you can buy a cool tube light shade which is just a circular piece of pyrex glass with a alloy shade insert, you just have to use a little force to remove the alloy shade and u put your bulb in the fitting.

you could buy an adjustawing shade and just use the part that the bulb fits into and suspend it in mid air using chains or metal wire.

you can also buy a coliseum light shade that is specifically made for vert growing, it is the same as a cool tube but has no shade inside the glass.
hydroponic shops/stores are the best place to ask if you have one near by.

to VERTFARMER, i cut my straight pipe to 16" to fit inside a 1.2m tent and spaced my plants just by cutting 3" holes in each of the 45 degree pipe connectors and one in the centre of the straight pipe to get 52 sites. i think i can use this thing a little smaller in diameter if i tie the plants back from the light as they grow upwards rather than towards the light.


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## madazz (Oct 2, 2009)

so i guess heath does use a 4000 LPH pump then ? i read 400 somewhere then 4000 else where. greenyield was using 2000lph in his which is a bit smaller than heaths. Heath Excellent Job Mate u r my idol. That shit u got happening is fully of this planet. Can u confirm one thing , what size pump do u use for feeding, i see 2 pumps in the res, i smaller rio type one and the bigger black one, i'm guessing is 4000 LPH. Excellent job mate. am looking forward to seeing more pics from your next grow.

catch ya madazz


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## madazz (Oct 2, 2009)

oh and heath another thing, i notice in some pics the bulbs are hps but look like they are the MH conversion bulbs, What type of bulb do u use and why did u choose that type. Many Thanks mate

catch ya soon

Madazz


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## neiltoosweet (Oct 3, 2009)

thanks for that greenyield!
so can I just hang that tube with a fan blowing up at it as heath does with his bare bulb, or do I have to fit a fan to the pyrex,
sorry bout the noob questions, but I only ever run a 400wt scrogg, I got about 9oz every 8 weeks haha I thought I was doin the do!
till I saw what you boys achieve!


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## greenyield (Oct 3, 2009)

neiltoosweet said:


> thanks for that greenyield!
> so can I just hang that tube with a fan blowing up at it as heath does with his bare bulb, or do I have to fit a fan to the pyrex,
> sorry bout the noob questions, but I only ever run a 400wt scrogg, I got about 9oz every 8 weeks haha I thought I was doin the do!
> till I saw what you boys achieve!


you can just hang the bare bulb in there, that is what i was going to do but i know my room and temp that i get upto in summer and winter plus the humidity problems i have at different times of the year. i opted for the cooltube just incase i needed to move heat away at some point.

im new to vertical growing myself, i know that i will achieve a better yield with practice, than i could otherwise with my other methods. 
the only reason i went with the cooltube is because of 2 things:

1: i am using a smaller diameter setup so i need to protect my buds from heat.

2: i dont have any ducting connected up to the cool tube as i dont need it right now but when summer gets here again i probably will need to fan the heat away.

when you move air away from your plants you also move the humidity in the air too, i will more than likely have to use a humidity mister to put humidity where i need it at some point in the hot season. possibly even when winter hits its coldest, as the air is dry then.

by the way, 9 oz is nothing to be ashamed of with only 400w bulb. ive hit less with 600w due to poor room conditions when i started out.

i like the idea of vertical growing as you can at least triple your ft or meter square, it is just a matter of time before i dial it in and get what i want.


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## neiltoosweet (Oct 4, 2009)

greenyield said:


> you can just hang the bare bulb in there, that is what i was going to do but i know my room and temp that i get upto in summer and winter plus the humidity problems i have at different times of the year. i opted for the cooltube just incase i needed to move heat away at some point.
> 
> im new to vertical growing myself, i know that i will achieve a better yield with practice, than i could otherwise with my other methods.
> the only reason i went with the cooltube is because of 2 things:
> ...


Cool, thats sounds good, think I will start with just the cooltube without a fixed exhast,(I feel it will protect the light should a bud fall on it, + it gives the option of adding a fixed exhast if heat is an issue later,
I also like the idea of useing the light more efficiently, without all thet training that scrog demands!
yeah it will be fun dialling it all in, a new adventure n all that,
thanks again for the advice


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## heffe' (Oct 4, 2009)

Thanx Heath 4 all your awesome info. I am designing my first grow and have been inspired 2 go vertical by YOU! But modified to fit my small space with one side open for access. I am very interested in using a light that is relatively new to growing m-land Super Grow light rated at 300w it is said to replace a 1000w HPS/MH with a spectrum that is said to be good for both veg/bloom. Saving 80% on power usage and heat only slightly above LED's that makes 96% useful light compared to HPS at 16%. I will definitely be a guinea pig as I can't find feedback from anyone currently who is using them. I'm wondering if it would push the gram 2 watt up past 6gms per watt. I will definitely start a thread on this when I get going. My hats off to you for designing the perfectly engineered simple design. I have been working in Film Special FX for 15+ years and have seen my share of over designed projects. Thank U soo much for your posts, GREAT ATTITUDE, and patience, when answering ?'s, U have inspired alot of people. I'm sure I'll B bugging you with ?'s, but since I have read thru your thread a couple of times now I will try 2 keep them original.
Cheers


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## heffe' (Oct 5, 2009)

Hello Heath, 

#1. I was wondering which 600w sunpulse MH you are using?

#2. Electronic or magnetic ballast, & Brand?

#3. Which Kelvin?

Cheers


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## fuckstix (Oct 5, 2009)

heffe' said:


> Hello Heath,
> 
> #1. I was wondering which 600w sunpulse MH you are using?
> 
> ...


How were you cooling your room? I mean, like was there a window unit, a portable unit or what?


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## cancerman (Oct 6, 2009)

I was thingking of making samekind myself, except smaller. But im out of money, but i have got plenty of duct hose/Aluminium tube that is the right diameter. Can i use this or is the aluminum bad for the plants?


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## Demosthenese (Oct 6, 2009)

the water will prbly just be too heavy. maybe not. using h202 might corrode it or something... i thought about using the corrugated plasting tubing they use for drainage runoff, since i thought piping might be a lot more expensive. It wont bend on a tight enough angle though to fit inside the space i had, so i used 4' pvc in the end. it's not that expensive to build the setup out of 4 inch pvc, the biggest expense is the 90" bends u need to buy, and it might even be possible to bend those into the pvc without fittings if you were careful and good with a heat gun. if you try the aluminum tubing, make sure to use lots of strapping to support it really well between most of the pots.


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## mrduke (Oct 11, 2009)

if your looking for a cheaper alternative to pvc there is a pipe called polypipe used for drainage which is a dual wall white plastic pipe it runs about 8 bucks for 10' and fittings are like 2. availble at HD and Lowes in norcal


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## That 5hit (Oct 11, 2009)

46 Oz

2,1/2 LBs form 1 600w
this guy is a beast


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## Lobo69 (Oct 12, 2009)

Hey.
Do you guys think I could use a 42 inch by 6 foot space with a 1000 watt hps in a cooltube for this type of setup?
Would the plants have enough room to grow? If so, What size should the cuttings be before I flower them?


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## itsjustaplant (Oct 12, 2009)

i really like the way you did the man, I think I will try something similar.

My only comment. That pump looks tiny to be pumping 1000 gal/hr. How much much would you say is actually going through the vertical piping.

Also do you ever have problems with roots clogging you're pipes?


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## proheto8008 (Oct 12, 2009)

mrduke said:


> if your looking for a cheaper alternative to pvc there is a pipe called polypipe used for drainage which is a dual wall white plastic pipe it runs about 8 bucks for 10' and fittings are like 2. availble at HD and Lowes in norcal


can you give the exact name of this product or send a link?


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## That 5hit (Oct 13, 2009)

do you like


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## fatman7574 (Oct 13, 2009)

What is the average spacing on the horizontal and vertical plane, how many weeks of how many hours of 600 watts lighting from cutting to finish and at what room and reservoir temperatures? As you give no PAR readings or lumen readings I assume you used no meters to determine your diameter but are basing the diameter and number of tiers merely on past experimentation of yours or someone else who also took no readings? No DO readings either? A DO reading of the inlet and outlet nutrient water with preferably a few in between would be very helpful also.

No offense but such data is more useful to me than pictures or final yield results not related to *total kWh used* for light.

Based upon what information was given it looks like a good methodology for a low temp, therefore slow grow. You have also stated that the DO is dependent upon the fast flow of water through the tubes and relating that to a waterfall aerating water due to your drop from tier to tier or the turbulence created by any fall over the adjustable walls. What is the pitch to your tubes from one adjustable wall to the next, as other than adjusting the walls the pitch will determine the fall and therforethe amount of turbulence. Have you thought of introducing more air into the system such as with an air pump rather than depending just on the air coming in through your pots growing medium to supply O2 at the air-water interface surface, or maybe using a venturi in the water line.

Measured emperical data can not be checked against future trial emperical data (be repeated) if it is not known. Although observations are also considered emperical data, experimentation of real use should contain as much *measurable* emperical data as is possible. Pictures are just pictures, they are merely guides or records of visual observations. Pictures of PAR readings, CO2 ppm readings, temp and DO readings would be of more use.


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## That 5hit (Oct 13, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> What is the average spacing on the horizontal and vertical plane, how many weeks of how many hours of 600 watts lighting from cutting to finish and at what room and reservoir temperatures? As you give no PAR readings or lumen readings I assume you used no meters to determine your diameter but are basing the diameter and number of tiers merely on past experimentation of yours or someone else who also took no readings? No DO readings either? A DO reading of the inlet and outlet nutrient water with preferably a few in between would be very helpful also.
> 
> No offense but such data is more useful to me than pictures or final yield results not related to *total kWh used* for light.
> 
> ...


wtf are you talking 'bout

40+ oz's from one 600w hps speaks for it self
the pics and the little bit of info that he did provide was just a grow outline he wants you to take it and build from it if you want to put a meter in or what ever do it but dont shit talk a guy getting those results and shareing the info freely he does not have to do anything- you could always asume the average- for me he gave a lot of gr8 info, but thats just my skill level- i would not suggest you atempting a grow this size if you have to ask those questions, you may want to stick to 1 or 2 plants with cfls

where are your grows, bytch


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## Wemp (Oct 13, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> What is the average spacing on the horizontal and vertical plane, how many weeks of how many hours of 600 watts lighting from cutting to finish and at what room and reservoir temperatures? As you give no PAR readings or lumen readings I assume you used no meters to determine your diameter but are basing the diameter and number of tiers merely on past experimentation of yours or someone else who also took no readings? No DO readings either? A DO reading of the inlet and outlet nutrient water with preferably a few in between would be very helpful also.
> 
> No offense but such data is more useful to me than pictures or final yield results not related to *total kWh used* for light.
> 
> ...


 
Yew





r





Dum


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## fatman7574 (Oct 13, 2009)

That 5hit said:


> wtf are you talking 'bout
> 
> 40+ oz's from one 600w hps speaks for it self
> the pics and the little bit of info that he did provide was just a grow outline he wants you to take it and build from it if you want to put a meter in or what ever do it but dont shit talk a guy getting those results and shareing the info freely he does not have to do anything- you could always asume the average- for me he gave a lot of gr8 info, but thats just my skill level- i would not suggest you atempting a grow this size if you have to ask those questions, you
> ...


Fine he provides enough information that any dumb hick can possiblty copy his exact grow if they use the same of everthing including keeping the same parameters which he does not share. Given the data I asked for as it relates to his grow another person could reduce the size or increase the size grow area to a size suited to other sized lights or other sized pipes or others ventilation or watering systems. 

That would be more useful than just given enough information to copy his specfic set up. Some people are learners some are copiers (sheep) without having any idea what or why other than somebody else got something to work that they think they can copy. Sorta like the difference between a driver and a mechanic/driver or engineer/builder. Obviously you are happy with being a mere follower or copier. Everybody that asked some stupid quaestion such as how long is each piece of pipe was not harassed over the questions asked. However any body that had a good question or qusetion the simplistic informato ion given without giving useful dat was basically told to go away. 

Obviously your a sheep with no intent in learning just copying so are content with such mimimal information.


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## Wemp (Oct 13, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> Fine he provides enough information that any dumb hick can possiblty copy his exact grow if they use the same of everthing including keeping the same parameters which he does not share. Given the data I asked for as it relates to his grow another person could reduce the size or increase the size grow area to a size suited to other sized lights or other sized pipes or others ventilation or watering systems.
> 
> That would be more useful than just given enough information to copy his specfic set up. Some people are learners some are copiers (sheep) without having any idea what or why other than somebody else got something to work that they think they can copy. Sorta like the difference between a driver and a mechanic/driver or engineer/builder. Obviously you are happy with being a mere follower or copier. Everybody that asked some stupid quaestion such as how long is each piece of pipe was not harassed over the questions asked. However any body that had a good question or qusetion the simplistic informato ion given without giving useful dat was basically told to go away.
> 
> Obviously your a sheep with no intent in learning just copying so are content with such mimimal information.


 
Quit your bitchin


----------



## milowerx96 (Oct 13, 2009)

nice system. Do you have any aeration issues down at the bottom? 


Heath Robinson said:


> *Sorry for the poor picture but this collar controls the level in the tubes. *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## fatman7574 (Oct 13, 2009)

Wemp said:


> Yew
> 
> r
> 
> Dum


No I just choose not to be ignorant. If I copied his grow I would just be ignorant but possibly able to grow as much as him if I identically copy his build and unknown parameters. sure he is not required nor need he answer any of my quaestions. I would just possibly learn something if he did. However I have learned nothing by waht he has shared other than if I exactly copied him (which he does not give enough data to do) I have a good chance of getting the same results. That is not learning anything. like I just wrote that is merely being a sheep or worse.kiss-ass

As far as photos, it will never happen on an open public forum.

You are juvenille.


----------



## That 5hit (Oct 13, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> Fine he provides enough information that any dumb hick can possiblty copy his exact grow if they use the same of everthing including keeping the same parameters which he does not share. Given the data I asked for as it relates to his grow another person could reduce the size or increase the size grow area to a size suited to other sized lights or other sized pipes or others ventilation or watering systems.
> 
> That would be more useful than just given enough information to copy his specfic set up. Some people are learners some are copiers (sheep) without having any idea what or why other than somebody else got something to work that they think they can copy. Sorta like the difference between a driver and a mechanic/driver or engineer/builder. Obviously you are happy with being a mere follower or copier. Everybody that asked some stupid quaestion such as how long is each piece of pipe was not harassed over the questions asked. However any body that had a good question or qusetion the simplistic informato ion given without giving useful dat was basically told to go away.
> 
> Obviously your a sheep with no intent in learning just copying so are content with such mimimal information.


dude
just look at the pics and use your imagination
you can ablib most of it - how you think he came up with it 
do you also need someone to whip your ass
sit down and draw it out first in your head then in on paper, then take your time and by part by part have every thing cut - take your time


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## That 5hit (Oct 13, 2009)

this is all you need the info are there


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## That 5hit (Oct 13, 2009)

ive stared at those photos so long i could make this system as big or small as i want


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## Wemp (Oct 13, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> No I just choose not to be ignorant. If I copied his grow I would just be ignorant but possibly able to grow as much as him if I identically copy his build and unknown parameters. sure he is not required nor need he answer any of my *quaestions*. I would just possibly learn something if he did. However I have learned nothing by *waht* he has shared other than if I exactly copied him (which he does not give enough data to do) I have a good chance of getting the same results. That is not learning anything. like I just wrote that is merely being a sheep or worse.kiss-ass
> 
> As far as photos, it will never happen on an open public forum.
> 
> You are juvenille.


 
What are you 4? You cant spell and you need someone to hold your hand...

He doesnt give a flying fu** if you cant copy his build.. in fact he probably doesnt want you to. If YOU want to do what HE did.... figure it out yourself you little girl scout..


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## That 5hit (Oct 13, 2009)

dudes a cigarette


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## Airwave (Oct 13, 2009)

Impressive.


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## greenyield (Oct 14, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> What is the average spacing on the horizontal and vertical plane, how many weeks of how many hours of 600 watts lighting from cutting to finish and at what room and reservoir temperatures? As you give no PAR readings or lumen readings I assume you used no meters to determine your diameter but are basing the diameter and number of tiers merely on past experimentation of yours or someone else who also took no readings? No DO readings either? A DO reading of the inlet and outlet nutrient water with preferably a few in between would be very helpful also.
> 
> No offense but such data is more useful to me than pictures or final yield results not related to *total kWh used* for light.
> 
> ...





That 5hit said:


> wtf are you talking 'bout
> 
> 40+ oz's from one 600w hps speaks for it self
> the pics and the little bit of info that he did provide was just a grow outline he wants you to take it and build from it if you want to put a meter in or what ever do it but dont shit talk a guy getting those results and shareing the info freely he does not have to do anything- you could always asume the average- for me he gave a lot of gr8 info, but thats just my skill level- i would not suggest you atempting a grow this size if you have to ask those questions, you may want to stick to 1 or 2 plants with cfls
> ...





Wemp said:


> Yew
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it seems that fatman likes to talk and not DO!

really technical questions that dont need to be thought about to get good results.

if you see this fatman, maybe you should make your own flooded tube and use a light meter to establish the correct distance for optimum performance you should already know the optimum temp for room and reservoir pal.
like i said before, you just like to talk about it and will never have the get up and go to build one of these babies.


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## fatman7574 (Oct 14, 2009)

No interest in building one as I grow hot room aero, not cold room flooded roots. More yield in much less time so lowered costs and more crops per year. Building the cold room, low light vertical system would be too many step backwards to even consider.


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## Wemp (Oct 14, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> No interest in building one as I grow hot room aero, not cold room flooded roots. More yield in much less time so lowered costs and more crops per year. Building the cold room, low light vertical system would be too many step backwards to even consider.


 
Then why are you asking for the data?

You were just crying earlier about not having enough info to make one..

Dont make stupid comments if you arent even considering it.


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## fatman7574 (Oct 14, 2009)

Wemp said:


> Then why are you asking for the data?
> 
> You were just crying earlier about not having enough info to make one..
> 
> Dont make stupid comments if you arent even considering it.


Because I choose to learn rather than remain ignorant. I need not duplicate or build something to learn by some ones elses efforts or works but I do need enough data to learn something of value other than to blindly duplicate the physical building efforts of another. It is like learning how to determine the size floor joist needed to carry a load versus just using the same sized floor joist that others are using without know ing or being able to calculate why. It is like the difference between being a simple carpenter that follows a set of plans/blue prints or being the engineer that draws them...engineers work with data they do not blindly/ignorantly copy others. If they put there names on something and say it is going to work then they have the data to show why and how. They do not put their names to a design and say "uh, I did what he did."


Oh, by the ways, yes, I am an engineer.


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## That 5hit (Oct 14, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> because i choose to learn rather than remain ignorant. I need not duplicate or build something to learn by some ones elses efforts or works but i do need enough data to learn something of value other than to blindly duplicate the physical building efforts of another. It is like learning how to determine the size floor joist needed to carry a load versus just using the same sized floor joist that others are using without know ing or being able to calculate why. It is like the difference between being a simple carpenter that follows a set of plans/blue prints or being the engineer that draws them...engineers work with data they do not blindly/ignorantly copy others. If they put there names on something and say it is going to work then they have the data to show why and how. They do not put their names to a design and say "uh, i did what he did."
> 
> 
> oh, by the ways, yes, i am an engineer.


 
f a i l


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## That 5hit (Oct 14, 2009)

lets see your grow op
old new something you built for someone else i'll even except blue prints
where's the pics fatman
show us or blow us


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## tea tree (Oct 14, 2009)

what a douche. sorry to hijack, but I was moved. . .


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## That 5hit (Oct 16, 2009)

i was just thinking about this system and how gr8 it is 
this is byfar the best use of space ive seen yet
the only thing i can see inproving on is a better way in and out
climbing over seems so dangerous
do you think this system can be built off the ground,,, maybe start it like 3 to 4 ft off the floor so that you could just crawl under it also another plus would be you could put more plants under the light useing the floor space.
when im drunk or high i can crawl under something better then climb over something. this maynot be good if you have low ceilings- but for me this would work great- i was thinking maybe use longer studs or custom building a stand or stilts
and if you need to reach higher use a step stool or wooden box if anything. im only surgesting 3ft, 4ft max


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## XxNinjaxX (Oct 16, 2009)

Looks truly awesome my friend 
Good Work - +Rep.


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## That 5hit (Oct 16, 2009)

who r you asking


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## proheto8008 (Oct 16, 2009)

That 5hit said:


> i was just thinking about this system and how gr8 it is
> this is byfar the best use of space ive seen yet
> the only thing i can see inproving on is a better way in and out
> climbing over seems so dangerous
> ...


im sure you can modify it any way that you see fit.


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## That 5hit (Oct 16, 2009)

yeah thats what i was thinking 
i wonder how hard it is to get in and out the way it is


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## fatman7574 (Oct 16, 2009)

That 5hit said:


> lets see your grow op
> old new something you built for someone else i'll even except blue prints
> where's the pics fatman
> show us or blow us


What are you twelve, thirteen years old?


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## That 5hit (Oct 16, 2009)

you are a eginneer you are spposed to be able to look at something and know all the answer of what you want 
build some shit and leave us alone
and i know i misspelled it so fuck you in advance
show us or blow us
where are your grows m8
if there anything like your avatar i know your not who you say you are


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## fatman7574 (Oct 16, 2009)

Gave you to much credit. Nine or ten tops.


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## That 5hit (Oct 16, 2009)

but you still show us nothing you have created
weed related or not


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## nickbbad (Oct 16, 2009)

I was looking into doing single wall versions each with there own res. So you start off smaller and upgrade by adding a new wall you could do 3,4,5,6 or 8 walls and this way you could a perpetual harvest with this set up. You could also move them closer or farther as need be and get inside easier. Here are some pics of what Im talking about. Excuse the crudity of them.


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## fatman7574 (Oct 16, 2009)

What do you want a copy of my last sentencing papers for a felony drug conviction, or just a photo layout of everything that would surely guarantee another one? People who post self incriminating evidence on line are just inflating their own egos and greatly increasing their chances of prison time. Kinda hard to stand on your fifth amendment rights after you have already posted photos of your crime on a public forum. As far as other creations would look like to look at design data for waste water treatment plants or water treatment plants. Grow up!


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## That 5hit (Oct 16, 2009)

nickbbad said:


> I was looking into doing single wall versions each with there own res. So you start off smaller and upgrade by adding a new wall you could do 3,4,5,6 or 8 walls and this way you could a perpetual harvest with this set up. You could also move them closer or farther as need be and get inside easier. Here are some pics of what Im talking about. Excuse the crudity of them.


gr8 idea this is all you could have done
but it took some one else to do it FATS
but this is a gr8 add to the thread
and it would make it ezer to get in and out
maybe even make a 3 side unit and use this as a door 
so you could have 2 res the 3 side unit and the door unit

+rep this guy




now this is what an engineer would do


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## greenyield (Oct 17, 2009)

nickbbad said:


> I was looking into doing single wall versions each with there own res. So you start off smaller and upgrade by adding a new wall you could do 3,4,5,6 or 8 walls and this way you could a perpetual harvest with this set up. You could also move them closer or farther as need be and get inside easier. Here are some pics of what Im talking about. Excuse the crudity of them.
> View attachment 585755
> 
> View attachment 585756



ive been looking at creating something similar with nft top trays.
there is some guy on icmag.com http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=137017
that had 6 vertical coloums filled with hydroton drip fed with the reservoir on castor wheel type things so he could move them closer or farther away from the light. he had 40 plants per wall and two 1000 watt lights and claimed to have produced 9lbs.

my idea is to have something like the wall of water, see picture. i want to run it like nft and using nft top plates so i would have to angle it slightly so the water can flow.


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## That 5hit (Oct 17, 2009)

this nickbbad guy is a real *engineer*
to come up with these plans 
and they are so clear and understandable
this is def. an add to the vert grower system


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## scsurf334 (Oct 18, 2009)

thats sick, i think im gonna set up a system like nickbbad did but do it on a taller and wider scale per side. thinkin about maybe doing four sides connected under one res to cut down on the amount of res's needed, and then having my other walls on wheels so i can move them and get in and out. thats some real innovative shit both heaths design and the modified one. ill put up a journal when i get it started sometime next month. oh yeah greenyield, you said that one guy got 9 pounds off 2 x 1000 watts. thats fuckin sick but i bet there'd be a higher gpw if you had 3 x 600's cause the 600s have way better lumens output. PEACE


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## greenyield (Oct 19, 2009)

scsurf334 said:


> thats sick, i think im gonna set up a system like nickbbad did but do it on a taller and wider scale per side. thinkin about maybe doing four sides connected under one res to cut down on the amount of res's needed, and then having my other walls on wheels so i can move them and get in and out. thats some real innovative shit both heaths design and the modified one. ill put up a journal when i get it started sometime next month. oh yeah greenyield, you said that one guy got 9 pounds off 2 x 1000 watts. thats fuckin sick but i bet there'd be a higher gpw if you had 3 x 600's cause the 600s have way better lumens output. PEACE


i agree about the 600s, i would not use 1000 watts as they would be too hot for me. 
i will be trying this idea i had in about 6 or 7 weeks. with 1 600 watt. i will fill the bags with another 20 litres of coco and use 8 to 10 bags.
i think i will drip feed 4 times a day , run to waste. i will put my bags into totes to catch the waste nutrients.
i know they will need to be emptied every day or two but i think this idea will work well and it is cheap.
plus, i can move the bags back to trim plants.


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## That 5hit (Oct 19, 2009)

now that i think of it this idea could be done with book shelves and 1 gal pots or smaller 
but it would take a whole lot of watering


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## nuskool89 (Oct 20, 2009)

heath would you be willing to help me design my own variation of this to fit in my closet?


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## tom__420 (Oct 20, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> Gave you to much credit. Nine or ten tops.


I have been posting here since 2006, if something were going to happen to me it would have already happened
Stop being so paranoid, I haven't heard of one person getting busted through here
Stop smoking for a little while and post pics so than you won't look like you got bitched out by someone you think is ten years old

Heath if you ever come back to this site post in here with your updated work, truly inspirational


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## That 5hit (Oct 20, 2009)

heath is so cool 
he does not get paid to post anything anywhere and thats what make him and many others like him cool 
heath is like on five other grow forums, he's a realy bussy guy, you have to catch him early, but if you look at the pictures and layouts long and hard it will come to you all the info that you need you , there are other guy on here that have vert journals based on the heath system maybe they can answer your qusetion and help you , but hopefully heath comes back


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## greenyield (Oct 21, 2009)

That 5hit said:


> heath is so cool
> he does not get paid to post anything anywhere and thats what make him and many others like him cool
> heath is like on five other grow forums, he's a realy bussy guy, you have to catch him early, but if you look at the pictures and layouts long and hard it will come to you all the info that you need you , there are other guy on here that have vert journals based on the heath system maybe they can answer your qusetion and help you , but hopefully heath comes back


 i would like to add to that if it is ok with you that 5hit.
if i was heath, and i know im not. so, if i had posted this thread with my idea on this vertical grow tube and was busy growing in the mean time then i guess i would just spend my time concentrating on growing more.
what i mean to say, heath has spent time,money,effort, and hard work to do the things he has done and posted on the forums in many different sites on his grows. 
if that was me, i would get my head down and make some massive grows and even more massive grows and ride the gravy train.
the basic info is there to follow, you need to take a leap of faith if you want to make this setup. like i did.


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## scsurf334 (Oct 22, 2009)

also if you did a perpetual harvest with individual walls the gpw would suffer, as its optimal to have plants at equal distance away from the lights


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## That 5hit (Oct 22, 2009)

a perpetual harvest always suffers when it comes done to gpw in any type of setup
ecept maybe 12/12 from seed


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## Heath Robinson (Oct 22, 2009)

Hi all, thanks for your kind words and the great ideas which are being thrown out for discussion  

Greenyield, the vert idea you have is a little similar to one I did with rockwool slabs about 4 years ago, the thread is archived *Here* its called Heath goes vertical (again!), it might give you a few tips on watering etc.


Heath


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## That 5hit (Oct 23, 2009)

heath this shit right here http://strainguide.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/heaths-vertical-racks-strainguide.html is almost better then the one on here you are amazing if you started your own site i would follow 
this guy knows his shit


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## growwwww (Oct 24, 2009)

Hes a god.....


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## iloveit (Oct 24, 2009)

Heath any clues on what your planning for the next showdown?


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## That 5hit (Oct 24, 2009)

man this guy set the bar way to high even for himself, the only way he can top his curent grow is to build 4 of those units....... on the moon

"hay have you guys seen the guy on here with the 250w vert. in a bubble ponic setup this guy is pullin 300 gpw ez heres his link check him out https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/256847-dystopias-ppp-250w-vscrog.html this guys been doing his homework hes coming for your title heath


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## iloveit (Oct 24, 2009)

That 5hit said:


> man this guy set the bar way to high even for himself, the only way he can top his curent grow is to build 4 of those units....... on the moon
> 
> "hay have you guys seen the guy on here with the 250w vert. in a bubble ponic setup this guy is pullin 300 gpw ez heres his link check him out https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/256847-dystopias-ppp-250w-vscrog.html this guys been doing his homework hes coming for your title heath


Thanks for the link if you find any others let me know.


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## dgk4life (Oct 24, 2009)

were there ever finished pics????


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## greenyield (Oct 25, 2009)

Heath Robinson said:


> Hi all, thanks for your kind words and the great ideas which are being thrown out for discussion
> 
> Greenyield, the vert idea you have is a little similar to one I did with rockwool slabs about 4 years ago, the thread is archived *Here* its called Heath goes vertical (again!), it might give you a few tips on watering etc.
> 
> ...


thanks heath. i will look through it later.

i have all the fittings for the mini vertical that you did some time ago on rollitup, i intend to build and use it sometime in the future but without the hydroton. i will use nft spreader matt in the bottom of the square pipe.

i may give the rockwool vert a try sometime next year when i get the expense of christmas out of the way.

i think that the clones i used for the flooded tube are not suited to this type of grow so im busy trying to grow out enough clones of cheese feminised
to put in the coco bag idea i had. ive attatched a pic of the flooded tube at 25 days 12/12.

nice to see that you are still around heath.


----------



## That 5hit (Oct 25, 2009)

gr8 grow on this vert what watt is the bulb
and the plants looks like they needed longer vegg time in the vert but other then that looks yum
do you have a grow journal for this grow


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## That 5hit (Oct 25, 2009)

someone +rep heath for me they want let me do it anymore
heath should have 1millon rep points


----------



## nickbbad (Oct 25, 2009)

That 5hit said:


> someone +rep heath for me they want let me do it anymore
> heath should have 1millon rep points


DONE


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## greenyield (Oct 25, 2009)

That 5hit said:


> gr8 grow on this vert what watt is the bulb
> and the plants looks like they needed longer vegg time in the vert but other then that looks yum
> do you have a grow journal for this grow


600 watt bulb, vegged for 10 days to get clones. the plants stretched but only the top row is not getting enough light.
i may be dismantling it after this grow to make way for another idea.


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## iloveit (Oct 25, 2009)

greenyield said:


> i may be dismantling it after this grow to make way for another idea.


Do tell


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## greenyield (Oct 25, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Do tell


well, where do i start.
i have the bits and pieces to build heaths mini vertical, and i had the coco bag vertical idea that i posted on here but what i really want is to have a vertical system that uses no medium at all.
that leaves me with nft or aeroponics, i had this idea to build something like this:






i dont know what to use to make them out of but was thinking of polycarbonate sheets and use fish tank sealant to glue them together at the seams to water tighten them.

it is kind of based on the grow wall. i just want to be able to move them around on the wheels. 

i also was thinking that it would be great if i could get an aeroponic sprinkler system in there instead of drip feeding. that way, i would have no medium to get rid of.
oh and i would be using 8 or 9 walls around one 600 watt light, even though i have have space to use more lights.

any thoughts of how to move forward on this would be appreciated.


----------



## That 5hit (Oct 25, 2009)

is this a hand watering system looks DIY able maybe out of wood or some thing


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## greenyield (Oct 25, 2009)

That 5hit said:


> is this a hand watering system looks DIY able maybe out of wood or some thing


 please thatshit, i am only using that picture as a guide to what i would like to achieve, it is made out of moulded plastic and is fucking way expensive so we dont want to even think about it.

i want to make a flat faced plastic wall but would space it around the light like on the photo here.
i want my plants to hang out of a true vertical wall like the design i drew and hopefully not rockwool as it is a pain to get rid of.
the reason for making a plastic wall like i drew is that it gives me the option of putting aeroponic sprayers in there to feed the roots and get rid of medium all together. or i could use hydroton on drip feed and clean the medium after the grow, i really dont want to do that if you know where im coming from.


----------



## iloveit (Oct 25, 2009)

greenyield said:


> well, where do i start.
> i have the bits and pieces to build heaths mini vertical, and i had the coco bag vertical idea that i posted on here but what i really want is to have a vertical system that uses no medium at all.
> that leaves me with nft or aeroponics, i had this idea to build something like this:
> 
> ...


Check your messages Ive sent you a PM.


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## Dr. VonDank (Oct 25, 2009)

That 5hit said:


> man this guy set the bar way to high even for himself, the only way he can top his curent grow is to build 4 of those units....... on the moon
> 
> "hay have you guys seen the guy on here with the 250w vert. in a bubble ponic setup this guy is pullin 300 gpw ez heres his link check him out https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/256847-dystopias-ppp-250w-vscrog.html this guys been doing his homework hes coming for your title heath


 "300 gpw ez" ????----that would be close to 167 pounds---lol.

Health--nice journel and great water rollercoaster. Glad to here you hit the 2.18 GPW mark with the first run. My question is about the 600 MH---Now that you have run reg 600 HPS's and the new 600mh's what's the differences?


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## That 5hit (Oct 26, 2009)

the totes would have to be made water tight with the lids
but this is what i was thinking about while at work on how a sturdy cheap diy vert system could be made 
with sprayer and water pump and a wooden stand on wheels useing a storage tote to hold the plants 6-9 each the shaded pipe is the drain return and this is to be made medium free


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## Demosthenese (Oct 26, 2009)

just wanted to update my vert closet progress. basically, it is wildly succesful.

Im using 600w HPS in a small IKEA closet with one 450 CFM vortex fan venting both the cooltube and the cab. Temps arround 28C +/-3 degrees, water temps at 70 +/-3. 

Im at day 14 of 12/12 here, and i'm growing Kish, a quick flowering strain. I only had about 25 clones for this run, but the closet holds 44 plants, 11 per level. I've got 25 in there, and two soil plants in the bottom that i threw in just to fill space.

What do you think?


----------



## nickbbad (Oct 26, 2009)

Demosthenese said:


> just wanted to update my vert closet progress. basically, it is wildly succesful.
> 
> Im using 600w HPS in a small IKEA closet with one 450 CFM vortex fan venting both the cooltube and the cab. Temps arround 28C +/-3 degrees, water temps at 70 +/-3.
> 
> ...


I love kish or shiskaberry but I can't find any seeds of it that will ship to the US. If know where to some that ship to the US please let me know. You room already looks too full... How long did you veg for? I think with that setup you could almost go zero veg time with clones and still pack it full by the end.


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## xogenic (Oct 26, 2009)

man sorry to be so late to the party just read the first page took around an hour to get past studying the pictures. i shall read on and get back to you lol


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## Demosthenese (Oct 26, 2009)

yeah next time i will trim i think. i had two weeks of veg. it is VERY overgrown in there, but i wanted to see what would happen with no pruning/lsting or anything. Next run i'll probably aim for a lot fewer branches, trimming them as they come out and pinching to discourage stretch.


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## greenyield (Oct 26, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Do tell


i would like some opinions
on what i have in mind.

i think that im going to put 12 plants arranged around a 600watt bulb like this








i will angle the corner pots like this







i will grow them to be about 1m tall with 14 days veg and 14 days flower, they wont stretch after that. i will also train them in and around a cylindrical wire mesh that will be placed around the sweet spot of the light.
hand watered. im doing this within the next couple of days.
wot do you guys think??


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## xogenic (Oct 26, 2009)

seems like a good idea but you will have to watch out for the plants getting wide as it might block out the ones in the corners you could grow them below the light maby lol just grow em sideways on the floor and then all the branches would be like mini colas 


just a thought im in a thoughting mood ol moving home soon so get to design me a new setup i am inspired by all this mcguyver drainpipe system it is ace think i mite steal the idea and put it in one of em grow tents my dad realy wants to buy one the guy at the shop is gona sell an ex display xl to us for £90 recon thst would be wide enough to do a vertical grow like this the tent is 120cm by 120cm and a hight of 2 meters


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## greenyield (Oct 26, 2009)

xogenic said:


> i am inspired by all this mcguyver drainpipe system it is ace think i mite steal the idea and put it in one of em grow tents my dad realy wants to buy one the guy at the shop is gona sell an ex display xl to us for £90 recon thst would be wide enough to do a vertical grow like this the tent is 120cm by 120cm and a hight of 2 meters


no it wont fit inside the tent.

i have the same size tent in my room and the tank is situated outside of the tent, i have to run the nutrient outake pipe outside of the tent and i have to run the pump pipes into the tent.

i made the flooded tube system to fit inside a 1.2m tent but i knew that i would have issues with the intake and outake pipes.

i had other plants in the same room vegging for a longer period and needed the tent to make a dark room for the vert.

i just zipped it up as far as i could and then used big towels to cover the gap left in the tent, i made a small hole in the towels and threaded some wire through then put the wire through the zipper to hold it in place and drooped/placed them enough to cover the void...MAGIC.
and for my next trick!!


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## xogenic (Oct 26, 2009)

nice one for getting back quick matey shall have to think of a plan b ill sleep on it i have had this setup on the brain all day i realy want one !!! lol


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## That 5hit (Oct 27, 2009)

how do you like this setup idea 
i'm thinking its a sprayer and drain system with no flood- its drains into the rez fast- no need for a clone room you can go from mother to flower room saving time- the sprayers run 24/7 -each tote is set in a wooden frame shaped like a (#) made of 2 by 2 with maybe a crose bar to keep the tote from fallen out of the # frame. the drawing is missing the frame part 
the totes would have to be made water tight with the lids
but this is what i was thinking about while at work on how a sturdy cheap diy vert system could be made 
with sprayer and water pump and a wooden stand on wheels useing a storage tote to hold the plants 6-9 each the shaded pipe is the drain return and this is to be made medium free
24 to 36 plants per wall
my guess is 1 wall would cost less then 60$ usd to build


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## greenyield (Oct 27, 2009)

That 5hit said:


> how do you like this setup idea
> i'm thinking its a sprayer and drain system with no flood- its drains into the rez fast- no need for a clone room you can go from mother to flower room saving time- the sprayers run 24/7 -each tote is set in a wooden frame shaped like a (#) made of 2 by 2 with maybe a crose bar to keep the tote from fallen out of the # frame. the drawing is missing the frame part
> the totes would have to be made water tight with the lids
> but this is what i was thinking about while at work on how a sturdy cheap diy vert system could be made
> ...


 it seems quite complicated and has too many plant sites for me, maybe 9 to 12 sites per wall.
i like the aero part of it because you can do the whole grow from cutting to mature plant.
i can imagine the quite loud noise of dripping water coming from 8 of these walls in my room, i dont think it would be quiet enough to be stealth.

keep working on it, i like what youre thinking.


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## That 5hit (Oct 27, 2009)

greenyield said:


> it seems quite complicated and has too many plant sites for me, maybe 9 to 12 sites per wall.
> i like the aero part of it because you can do the whole grow from cutting to mature plant.
> i can imagine the quite loud noise of dripping water coming from 8 of these walls in my room, i dont think it would be quiet enough to be stealth.
> 
> keep working on it, i like what youre thinking.


i know 
could you think of how 4-6 wall would sound
and not trying to make it complicated 
maybe the sprayer part i over did but i never worked with them before, 
maybe i should'ev shaped them like a ( E ) instead of an (3)


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## milowerx96 (Oct 27, 2009)

Well I must say you are one patient dude answering all those multi part questions! This is a nifty grow you have here. I love the reflective insulation over everything. I am thinking of reproducing this system now. The only thing I would do different is make a larger access hole. I figure the simplest way to do it would be putting 2 90 degree elbows in where it drops to the next level down and run around the other direction till I get to the other side of the door and switch back around the other direction. You will lose a few spaces bit I am 6'3" and don't crawl under shit well so I think I'll make an access way. I might add a few air stones too because I am all about aerating my nutes. I know the water moving through the system oxygenates the nutes but air stones would add even more oxygen to the system. Also it would be beneficial if you had a pump failure essentially turning it in to a DWC till you find and replace your burned out pump. That is really all I can think of though; and those are just little creature features that I would like. Well done! + rep


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## xogenic (Oct 27, 2009)

greenyield said:


> no it wont fit inside the tent.
> 
> i have the same size tent in my room and the tank is situated outside of the tent, i have to run the nutrient outake pipe outside of the tent and i have to run the pump pipes into the tent.
> 
> ...


ok i slept on it then forgot about it but then i remembered 

right how about if i use a cool tube setup in there and extracted the heat with my vrk fan into a carbon filter so it draws all the air through the tent up the bottom cool tube and out the top of the tent sort of like the lighting in the eco system







but with the drain styled piping squared round the tentand about 4 to 6 rows high


not bothered bout the nutes being seporate outside the tent the thing will be going next to my entrance to the loft wit ha littler one on the otherside for clones to root up and some where to store a few mothers under some cfls and throw 2 400w hps inside the cooltube setup

bit allover the place but i think it made sence


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## xogenic (Oct 27, 2009)

also i was thinking for the intakes and outtake pipes i would find a way to fit the fookers lol need to do a bit of drawing and planning but i got around 7 weeks till i got to move just realy want to try some vertical growing looks fun and productive


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## fatman7574 (Oct 27, 2009)

Wow, likely at least a few thousand plus shipping.


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## squarepush3r (Oct 27, 2009)

anyone interested in helping me make a vertical tree grow (vertical growing technique using few very large plants), come visit to Dystopia's thread. Also, amazing work Heath, goes without saying ...

https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/256847-dystopias-ppp-250w-vscrog-14.html


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## greenyield (Oct 27, 2009)

That 5hit said:


> i know
> could you think of how 4-6 wall would sound
> and not trying to make it complicated
> maybe the sprayer part i over did but i never worked with them before,
> maybe i should'ev shaped them like a ( E ) instead of an (3)


 alright that 5hit, this would be expensive to build.

use the frame that you drew and mount 4" soil pipe 1m long to it with the bottom of the pipes going into the res.







use some 1" or 1.5" pipe and connect ez clone misters into it, put a stop end on one end of the pipe and connect the other end to a water pump, you will need five of these per wall and fit them inside the 4" soil pipe, or fence posts if your in the US.


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## xogenic (Oct 27, 2009)

the eco system is like 2 grand


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## iloveit (Oct 27, 2009)

Thought you guys may wanna take a look at this since were posting pics.


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## xogenic (Oct 27, 2009)

pretty futurestylie lol


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## That 5hit (Oct 27, 2009)

greenyield said:


> alright that 5hit, this would be expensive to build.
> 
> use the frame that you drew and mount 4" soil pipe 1m long to it with the bottom of the pipes going into the res.
> 
> ...


 now thats a gr8 idea lets keep 'em coming


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## squarepush3r (Oct 28, 2009)

wanted to ask anyone follow this thread, and those who have replicated or made their own similar type of system. 

What size do you think you could get away with on the PVC pipe smallest?

1"?
2"?
3"?
4" is what Heath uses, I guess my questions is if you think you could go smaller and still be successful, I have an idea brewing of a simplified type system


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## greenyield (Oct 29, 2009)

squarepush3r said:


> wanted to ask anyone follow this thread, and those who have replicated or made their own similar type of system.
> 
> What size do you think you could get away with on the PVC pipe smallest?
> 
> ...


why dont you make us a sketch of your idea and post it up here?

heath did mention to someone on this thread that he could have used 3" pipe but they did not have push-fit 3" pipe and heath wanted the push-fit type .
the 3" pipe would require glueing to seal the joins.


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## squarepush3r (Oct 29, 2009)

greenyield said:


> why dont you make us a sketch of your idea and post it up here?
> 
> heath did mention to someone on this thread that he could have used 3" pipe but they did not have push-fit 3" pipe and heath wanted the push-fit type .
> the 3" pipe would require glueing to seal the joins.


Ok, I'll give it a shot 

My idea is in a way, a super simplified version of Heaths setup. It would allow for scaling and portability, but may be missing a few perks of Heaths, since the angled tubed would mean, if the pump stops, the water drains off all the roots rather quickly. Let me try to make a sketch of what I am thinking, although its hard to make a 3D version to describe what I want to do. Heres a go

First step: make an (imaginary) circle on the ground, in general this will be the size of your surrounding area. Imagine the red circles are PVC tubes (3" or whatever size works) looking strait down.







Next step, is each tube, we angle sideways, I'm thinking between 30-50 degrees off the floor. So, if the PVC pice was 5 ft tall before, now it will only be 2-3 ft off the ground. We angle all of them to make a spiral type shape, so none of them touch eachother (each tube angled exactly the same off ground).







Heres a really really bad side view, but you kind of get the picture. With this system, you could arrange 2 of the PVC tubes to be mounted separate, so you could 'roll' them out for inside maintenance




easy.





Basically, there would be detail work with the water connections, but essentially 1 pump feeds all 5,6,7 or 8 PVC tubes equally from the top (may need irrigation adapter for this). Then, the water just flows down each tube at whatever angle, and you collect it at the bottom some way.


This uses only strait sections of PVC tubing (3" or 4"), thus eliminating all connecting parts, or bending/warping connectors to make the special spiral that is awesome, but difficult to reproduce. This would have constant water flow, unlike Heaths system where the PVC tubes are level, so water can "sit" there if the pump is off. If the pump breaks, then there is no water pretty quickly as it would all drain (unless anyone can think of a work around, maybe damming each plant location partially to store some liquid.)

Wonder if anyone thinks this is feasable. I'm not sure if I will be able to test it, since sea of green requires lots of plant #'s, which I may not be in the position to do currently. Someone without plant limits may want to try this type.

For draining and changing the resoivior, simply turn the pump 'off' and all the water should collect within a minute or so. Or, you could perpetually adjust the PPM by interacting directly with the res only, while the pump is running. Heath mentions that salts (things not used by plants build up) can build up if you do not completely change the water every few weeks, although I have heard elsewhere you may be able to get around this...


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## greenyield (Oct 29, 2009)

squarepush3r said:


> Ok, I'll give it a shot
> 
> My idea is in a way, a super simplified version of Heaths setup. It would allow for scaling and portability, but may be missing a few perks of Heaths, since the angled tubed would mean, if the pump stops, the water drains off all the roots rather quickly. Let me try to make a sketch of what I am thinking, although its hard to make a 3D version to describe what I want to do. Heres a go
> 
> ...


 lets see if i read it correctly. i made a quick sketch, it looks like you will only have one viable tube made up of all 8 tubes in an octagon shape, from the point of view that i see it from.
also the part of each tube that hangs outside the octagon will take up too much floor space.







i can see it working if you were to make the pipes shorter and had 3 or 4 levels high attached to a frame for a total of 24 to 32 tubes but the problem of draining each tube back to the res gives me a headache.

i have a smaller version of the flooded tube and today i was thinking of converting it to a flood and drain system so i will be trying to wrap my head around that idea for a few days.


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## squarepush3r (Oct 29, 2009)

greenyield said:


> i have a smaller version of the flooded tube and today i was thinking of converting it to a flood and drain system so i will be trying to wrap my head around that idea for a few days.


hmm, well if you have plants in the tube at different heights, I can't figure out how to flood one plant, without overflowing another ... although you could do a series of rings, each ring completely horizontal to the floor (level) and then stack say 5 or 6 rings like halo's. Then, you would only need to worry about each layer having level water ... and from this point you could add an overflow on each level, once i reaches a certain point to drain. (so, 1 overflow per level). You would have to figure out a way to pump water using 1 pump into each level equally, even though every level will be at a different height. Maybe that irrigation system part could help with this, essentially it splits a flow into several equal pressure flows, but you wouldn't be able to reverse drain through the splitter ...

orrr! you could simple say, input pump into one side of the ring, then on the opposite side of the ring have a level drain. Have the pump continuously run into all 5 levels, and then they will drain to the other side of the ring once it reaches a cutoff, like, imagine the 0 to be the ring, only much smaller

(drain) -0- (input water)

This may be a really easy way to set this up


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## greenyield (Oct 29, 2009)

squarepush3r said:


> hmm, well if you have plants in the tube at different heights, I can't figure out how to flood one plant, without overflowing another ... although you could do a series of rings, each ring completely horizontal to the floor (level) and then stack say 5 or 6 rings like halo's. Then, you would only need to worry about each layer having level water ... and from this point you could add an overflow on each level, once i reaches a certain point to drain. (so, 1 overflow per level). You would have to figure out a way to pump water using 1 pump into each level equally, even though every level will be at a different height. Maybe that irrigation system part could help with this, essentially it splits a flow into several equal pressure flows, but you wouldn't be able to reverse drain through the splitter ...
> 
> orrr! you could simple say, input pump into one side of the ring, then on the opposite side of the ring have a level drain. Have the pump continuously run into all 5 levels, and then they will drain to the other side of the ring once it reaches a cutoff, like, imagine the 0 to be the ring, only much smaller
> 
> ...


 i thought about using 2 pumps or even one pump per tube. they would feed in from one end and have a larger drain pipe at the other end that would drain back to the res once that the water reached a level that i set it at.
im just wondering what medium to use in the tubes that would hold moisture enough to keep the roots happy between floods (not hydroton). here are the tubes i have.


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## squarepush3r (Oct 29, 2009)

greenyield said:


> i thought about using 2 pumps or even one pump per tube. they would feed in from one end and have a larger drain pipe at the other end that would drain back to the res once that the water reached a level that i set it at.
> im just wondering what medium to use in the tubes that would hold moisture enough to keep the roots happy between floods (not hydroton). here are the tubes i have.


well, im fairly sure the ebb and flow systems often use hydroton, but I'm not sure how to answer your question. Your setup looks great, I'm curious why you want to switch from continuous flow, to individual level flood? Just so you dont have to run your pump 24/7?

I think to do a true ebb and flow (fill then drain type system) you would need a separate pumps since each level drains the same way the water came in.

There may be work around but I can't think of any. You may be able to just use no medium, and keep say, a 1/4 of water that never drains out ... then run the pump every 30 minutes of the hour.


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## greenyield (Oct 29, 2009)

squarepush3r said:


> well, im fairly sure the ebb and flow systems often use hydroton, but I'm not sure how to answer your question. Your setup looks great, I'm curious why you want to switch from continuous flow, to individual level flood? Just so you dont have to run your pump 24/7?
> 
> I think to do a true ebb and flow (fill then drain type system) you would need a separate pumps since each level drains the same way the water came in.
> 
> There may be work around but I can't think of any. You may be able to just use no medium, and keep say, a 1/4 of water that never drains out ... then run the pump every 30 minutes of the hour.


i want to change to ebb and flow because i cannot run my more powerfull pumps in the system as it creates alot of noise at night especially and i think that my neighbours can hear it. it is the water flow in the tubes that makes the noise, like having a big water fountain in your bedroom while you sleep.

i had to use 2x 1000 litre per hour pumps to lower the noise to a stealth level but the plants suffered.
hence, the ebb/flow seems to be the way to go to make a good useable system from what ive made.

when i had my 2x 2000-3000ltr per hour pumps going it looked and sounded great but im not quite rich enough to have a big detatched house in the country just yet so the noise is a problem,lol.


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## fatman7574 (Oct 30, 2009)

Just buy 50 feet of 4" flex pvc and run a continous coil like a spring. Drill holes for net pots and use medium pressure low flow misters http://www.dripirrigation.com/index.php?cPath=43&sort=2a&page=3 run intermittantly by using a timer and solenoid valve. You would need a beeter , higher pressure pum than used for low pressure misters. Such as this Iwaki on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Iwaki-Magnet-Pump-Model-MD-30RZT-115NL-Unused_W0QQitemZ230392742077QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Pumps?hash=item35a47a40bd It provide 24 psi, not the piddly 5 psi or so provided by the low pressure fountain pumps etc. Iwakis are known for being the quietest and best made mag drive pumps on the marjket. 

Cut some plywood donut shaped rings out of plywood make one cut though one side of like sized rings so that they can be twisted into a ramp to supportthe flex tubing. They need only be about 3" wide Make a larger ring for the top and bottom of the tower. Space out the inner rings attached to up rights attached between the bottom ring and the top ring. Twist the inner rings to form the spiral and attach to the outter up rights. You should end up with one almost continous long coil. Run the tubing to feed the spray heads ouside the frame work. Spray paint everthing but the mister heads with Krylon fushion flat white paint. Buy one piece of 5' long glass tubing http://www.winshipdesigns.com/home/ws3/page_16547_35/150x3x1500mm_simax_tubing.html and insert two lights, one from the top and one from the bottom. Install fan at the bottom. Put large industrial/commercial caster type wheels under the bottom ring. http://cgi.ebay.com/Caster-5-Wheel-Set-Locking-Ball-Bearing-Heavy-Duty_W0QQitemZ130339452392QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Casters?hash=item1e58d635e8 Drain the end of the continous tube to a reservoir. Drape the vertical tower with white on black poly and leave the top and bottom open. To do maintenance etc, merely remove the wrap and reach in from outside. It would be easily adapted to CO2, carbon cans etc. Check prices and you would likely find that with the continous tubing that need no fittings that the piping costs are probaly lower. Plus there are no nooks and crannyies to gather crud. Very simple to clean. Just feed a wire or rope through the tubes length. Tie a rag to the end of the rope or wire and pull the rag through the pre wetted tube. Even better try three or four rags on the end a few feet apart.


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## That 5hit (Oct 30, 2009)

you gat to love this guy hidden room wall
check out this vertical grow and its a water cooled light 1kw 
heres the link https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/263979-sealed-water-cooled-blueberry-coco.html#post3315542


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## xogenic (Oct 30, 2009)

any one know how good those watercooled lights are


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## squarepush3r (Oct 30, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> Just buy 50 feet of 4" flex pvc and run a continous coil like a spring. Drill holes for net pots and use medium pressure low flow misters http://www.dripirrigation.com/index.php?cPath=43&sort=2a&page=3 run intermittantly by using a timer and solenoid valve. You would need a beeter , higher pressure pum than used for low pressure misters. Such as this Iwaki on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Iwaki-Magnet-Pump-Model-MD-30RZT-115NL-Unused_W0QQitemZ230392742077QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Pumps?hash=item35a47a40bd It provide 24 psi, not the piddly 5 psi or so provided by the low pressure fountain pumps etc. Iwakis are known for being the quietest and best made mag drive pumps on the marjket.
> 
> Cut some plywood donut shaped rings out of plywood make one cut though one side of like sized rings so that they can be twisted into a ramp to supportthe flex tubing. They need only be about 3" wide Make a larger ring for the top and bottom of the tower. Space out the inner rings attached to up rights attached between the bottom ring and the top ring. Twist the inner rings to form the spiral and attach to the outter up rights. You should end up with one almost continous long coil. Run the tubing to feed the spray heads ouside the frame work. Spray paint everthing but the mister heads with Krylon fushion flat white paint. Buy one piece of 5' long glass tubing http://www.winshipdesigns.com/home/ws3/page_16547_35/150x3x1500mm_simax_tubing.html and insert two lights, one from the top and one from the bottom. Install fan at the bottom. Put large industrial/commercial caster type wheels under the bottom ring. http://cgi.ebay.com/Caster-5-Wheel-Set-Locking-Ball-Bearing-Heavy-Duty_W0QQitemZ130339452392QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Casters?hash=item1e58d635e8 Drain the end of the continous tube to a reservoir. Drape the vertical tower with white on black poly and leave the top and bottom open. To do maintenance etc, merely remove the wrap and reach in from outside. It would be easily adapted to CO2, carbon cans etc. Check prices and you would likely find that with the continous tubing that need no fittings that the piping costs are probaly lower. Plus there are no nooks and crannyies to gather crud. Very simple to clean. Just feed a wire or rope through the tubes length. Tie a rag to the end of the rope or wire and pull the rag through the pre wetted tube. Even better try three or four rags on the end a few feet apart.


looks good, I have never heard of a solenoid valve before, but this may solve some other problems I was thinking of also.

Where would the misters? How many misters would you use? I guess thats the only part I didn't understand exactly how the misters would be able to water all the roots of all the plants (say 40 plants).

This is a good idea to explore, the only drawback I see, is the Flex-PVC is very expensive, may be over $500 for this system in tube alone.





That 5hit said:


> you gat to love this guy hidden room wall
> check out this vertical grow and its a water cooled light 1kw
> heres the link https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/263979-sealed-water-cooled-blueberry-coco.html#post3315542


wow, never heard of water cooled light before, must check this out


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## fatman7574 (Oct 30, 2009)

The mister would just be one betwwen ecah plant. The ones I use do not even need grommets. Just drill the hole and stick them in. The solenoid is so that the pump just runs 24 hours per day. Turning them on and off cosnstantly lowers there life spans considerably. With the solenoid you just install a fitting just past the pumps discahrge. On the "T" you put the solenoid. When the solenoid opens its water path offers almost no resistance to flow. As water always tkaes the path of least resistance it will just flow through the open solenoid and flow straight back to the resrvoir. When it closes it will flow through the tubing feeding the misters. 

Water cooled tubes are quite easy to make if you have a router. Just buy 1"thick cell cast scrap plastic on eBay and amke your end cao ps. The link to the galss blowing shop I posted has tubing in evey size up to 7 inch diameter. I have scads of water cooled tubes. Shipping is expensive to here for the tubing, bt all combined I only have an average of about $100 to $120 into each water cooled tube. I have some that are a full 5 foot long with three bulbs inside. They are best used with a flow switch so that they switch turns off the light if the water quits flowing. Otherwise if the lights are real close to the plants they can burn pretty quickly without the water flowing. I am quite sure if you check the pt rice of a bunch of fittings and pipe both they are far from cheap either, I think heath siwrote he spent $500 dollars on pipe and fittings. With the flex pvc you would only need tow fittings t most. A cap at the top and a cap or reduver at the bottom to run the last foot or two to your reservoir. So they costs are not really any different. Fifty feet of tubing is $393 dollars. At three foot in diameter that would give you about five tiers. Not cheap but totally seamless so no nooks or crannies to catch trash etc. no measuring , cutting, fitting, gluing and such. Nnd readily reusable if you go bigger in diameter or smaller in diameter. With the rigid pipe you would need to v cut and extend or shorten anduse a bunch of couplings. If you have larger farm stores where you live the likely have larger black poly pipe. It is not as flexible but it is likely cheaper.

I would put a 2" pot every six inches, with a mister between each one. Nep oprene spit ring on top of the pots. Nothing in the pots, no hydroton or rock wool.


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## squarepush3r (Oct 31, 2009)

hey guys

I just found this

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=1656c29acad5694825fc264b1d80bb27

in the future, if you want you can use this to make some 3D sketches of things you are trying to make. I'm going to use it now to try to jot down some models I've been thinking of.



EDIT: here is my creation
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=62641a5cc02cb7edc9bbcc572d1ea695&prevstart=0

I read it takes 1-2 days before you can fully 3-D view it, so keep checking, but for now there is a 2D view


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## xogenic (Oct 31, 2009)

squarepush3r said:


> hey guys
> 
> I just found this
> 
> ...


sexy little bit of software nice find mate


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## squarepush3r (Nov 1, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> The mister would just be one betwwen ecah plant. The ones I use do not even need grommets. Just drill the hole and stick them in. The solenoid is so that the pump just runs 24 hours per day. Turning them on and off cosnstantly lowers there life spans considerably. With the solenoid you just install a fitting just past the pumps discahrge. On the "T" you put the solenoid. When the solenoid opens its water path offers almost no resistance to flow. As water always tkaes the path of least resistance it will just flow through the open solenoid and flow straight back to the resrvoir. When it closes it will flow through the tubing feeding the misters.
> 
> Water cooled tubes are quite easy to make if you have a router. Just buy 1"thick cell cast scrap plastic on eBay and amke your end cao ps. The link to the galss blowing shop I posted has tubing in evey size up to 7 inch diameter. I have scads of water cooled tubes. Shipping is expensive to here for the tubing, bt all combined I only have an average of about $100 to $120 into each water cooled tube. I have some that are a full 5 foot long with three bulbs inside. They are best used with a flow switch so that they switch turns off the light if the water quits flowing. Otherwise if the lights are real close to the plants they can burn pretty quickly without the water flowing. I am quite sure if you check the pt rice of a bunch of fittings and pipe both they are far from cheap either, I think heath siwrote he spent $500 dollars on pipe and fittings. With the flex pvc you would only need tow fittings t most. A cap at the top and a cap or reduver at the bottom to run the last foot or two to your reservoir. So they costs are not really any different. Fifty feet of tubing is $393 dollars. At three foot in diameter that would give you about five tiers. Not cheap but totally seamless so no nooks or crannies to catch trash etc. no measuring , cutting, fitting, gluing and such. Nnd readily reusable if you go bigger in diameter or smaller in diameter. With the rigid pipe you would need to v cut and extend or shorten anduse a bunch of couplings. If you have larger farm stores where you live the likely have larger black poly pipe. It is not as flexible but it is likely cheaper.
> 
> I would put a 2" pot every six inches, with a mister between each one. Nep oprene spit ring on top of the pots. Nothing in the pots, no hydroton or rock wool.


@fatman7574

could you elaborate on your mister placement exactly? If I understand, the misters are to be between each plant, but inside the piping? So, you drill a hole from the outside of the spiral, and install the misters from the inside (so they point inwards). Then, you run a water tube on the outside which connects each mister, to the high powered pump in the resovior?

I just wasn't sure the exact placement of the misters ... thanks


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## fatman7574 (Nov 1, 2009)

http://www.dripirrigation.com/index.php?cPath=43&sort=2a&page=3 

Just drill a hole an equal distance between each net pot hole. The hole should be a snug fit allowing that all of the mister up to the flange be fit through the hole. That puts the mister spray starting at just below the inside of the pipe. A 1/4" hose is force fit over the fittings barb attachment area. Heat the end of the tubing in an insualted cup full of hot water makes it easy to install.

http://www.freshwatersystems.com/c-328-polyethylene-tubing-nsf58.aspx1/4 Tubing

http://www.freshwatersystems.com/c-500-john-guest-pp-range-white-polypropylene-fittings.aspx Fittings

http://cgi.ebay.com/Iwaki-Magnet-Pump-Model-MD-30RZT-115NL-Unused_W0QQitemZ370283657391QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Pumps?hash=item5636a038af Pump. 

The pump delivers 24 psi. Most fountain pumps deliver about 3 to 5 psi. It is considered the most quiet and best made magnetic pump brand in the U.S. It normally retails for about $300. It is however an external pump, not a submersible. However that means it does not heat up the water as does a submersible pump.


I would make the mister plumbing risers out of 3/8" tubing and use a 3/8"x 3/8"x3/8" "T" for each two misters and use a 3/8" x1/4" x 1/4" "T" at each of those T's to attach the 1/4" tube to each of two misters. With a 3 foot diameter tower you would have approximattely 18 holes per each level and 5 levels. That would mean 9 vertical 3/8" risers and 9 3/8"x 3/8"x3/8" "T's" for each level and each of those would have one 3/8" x1/4" x 1/4" "T". 

The bottom would have a ring that had 9 3/8"x 3/8"x3/8" T's a cap and an adapter to convert to the pipe size used on your pump, its T and the solenoid valve. All the tubing main lines should run out side the tower so as to stay out of the way and so as to take in less heat from light exposure. 

It is preferrable to buy black tubing and pray paint it flat white after assembly. Black stops light penetration and therefore algae growth. The white refects light. Kyrlon Fushion paint works well as it is specifically made for painting plastic.

The fittings are not cheap but they are pretty simple to work with and are leak free if the tubing is cut squarely. They are reusable and are cheaper when bought in bulk in larger numbers. In bulk they are likely half the cost of buying at a chain hardware store. Plus there is no wetted surface made of metal.


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## DST (Nov 1, 2009)

Very impressive construction going on here. I am starting a vertical for my next grow but using coco and a bit less futuristic looking. +rep for the building skills for sure.

Peace, DST


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## Demosthenese (Nov 1, 2009)

Day 20 of 12/12
600w HPS, veged 2 weeks from clone, Kish from VSB.


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## milowerx96 (Nov 1, 2009)

That pump gave me wood!





fatman7574 said:


> http://www.dripirrigation.com/index.php?cPath=43&sort=2a&page=3
> 
> Just drill a hole an equal distance between each net pot hole. The hole should be a snug fit allowing that all of the mister up to the flange be fit through the hole. That puts the mister spray starting at just below the inside of the pipe. A 1/4" hose is force fit over the fittings barb attachment area. Heat the end of the tubing in an insualted cup full of hot water makes it easy to install.
> 
> ...


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## greenyield (Nov 1, 2009)

milowerx96 said:


> That pump gave me wood!


lol and lol, the pump will not give you sucky sucky 5$ hahahaha, im pissing myself.


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## fatman7574 (Nov 2, 2009)

It's hey Joe I give you sucky, *ucky all night long. 

I guess you had to be there.


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## n.dap (Nov 2, 2009)

okay im new here to the forum and god damn this system is attractive. i had acouple questions if anyone could answer them, i have done plenty of outdoor grows, but recently i bought a dual cooltube with brand new 600watt hps bulbs and remote ballasts. i know the digis are or efficient but for my first grow ill use the remotes. i understand the layout and everything im just wondering about the water system. i know it DWC i understand how that works and everything to. my questions directed toward the filling of the tubes. as you said you fill all the tubes....... as in you fill all 4 layers of 4' tubing to 1/4' up the netting bucket. and you fill rez how many gallons? or im i getting it wrong. could sumone please explain. once i get this then i will start the building process of the vertical style flood tubes


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## squarepush3r (Nov 2, 2009)

n.dap said:


> okay im new here to the forum and god damn this system is attractive. i had acouple questions if anyone could answer them, i have done plenty of outdoor grows, but recently i bought a dual cooltube with brand new 600watt hps bulbs and remote ballasts. i know the digis are or efficient but for my first grow ill use the remotes. i understand the layout and everything im just wondering about the water system. i know it DWC i understand how that works and everything to. my questions directed toward the filling of the tubes. as you said you fill all the tubes....... as in you fill all 4 layers of 4' tubing to 1/4' up the netting bucket. and you fill rez how many gallons? or im i getting it wrong. could sumone please explain. once i get this then i will start the building process of the vertical style flood tubes


ya, up at the bottoms of the netbuckets is good.

for your Rez, put the total amount of water for all your buckets together, then add a few gallons for buffer in case of evaporation, etc..


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## n.dap (Nov 3, 2009)

well im gunna duplicate heaths so thats around 86. so you would just fill the res half way or full?


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## That 5hit (Nov 3, 2009)

ask question and get question answered @
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/263751-vertical-growing.html

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/263751-vertical-growing.html

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/263751-vertical-growing.html

see you there you know who +


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## n.dap (Nov 3, 2009)

im duplicating heaths system but adding 2 more rows with 2 600watters


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## squarepush3r (Nov 3, 2009)

n.dap said:


> im duplicating heaths system but adding 2 more rows with 2 600watters


wow, sounds good keep us updated


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## laughingduck (Nov 12, 2009)

does anyone know whay size net pots Heath used?


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## squarepush3r (Nov 13, 2009)

laughingduck said:


> does anyone know whay size net pots Heath used?


i dont think he said, but they look to be about 4-6" probably 4" or 5"


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## tomatochewer (Nov 15, 2009)

i hope your still around bro, you have done some crazy work, i wish i seen what you had before i bought stuff.


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## tomatochewer (Nov 15, 2009)

does anyone know where there is more info on heaths 4" soil pipe cage?

i found the overgrow link but its obviously dead, 

whos the good guy thats gonna help me find some info on that?


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## VertFarmer (Nov 16, 2009)

laughingduck said:


> does anyone know whay size net pots Heath used?


 He uses 3" (or 8cm) ones...


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## Black Thumb (Nov 25, 2009)

Heath i love watching your grows would have loved to have been able to save all the hg420 grows you did.

I see you say EC 1.2 is max you would go.
In hanna ppm that is around 650 or something.
Is this right you don't go over 600 - 650 ppms on your plants? 

Also when you hang your bulb is it exactly center to your plants vertically? 3 ft high structure, does the bulb hang 1.5 feet from the ground?


Thanks


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## squarepush3r (Nov 25, 2009)

Black Thumb said:


> Heath i love watching your grows would have loved to have been able to save all the hg420 grows you did.
> 
> I see you say EC 1.2 is max you would go.
> In hanna ppm that is around 650 or something.
> ...


I don't think Heath directly answers questions here anymore, but yes he does run really low EC/PPM. He posted a chart on why he does this, essentially it prevents over over-fert and plants can do fine with less than burning nutrient levels.

not sure about the dimensions, but you could probably find some exact numbers in some of the earlier posts.


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## InvestInMe (Nov 25, 2009)

I would like to knwo where the bulb is positioned as well.


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## Black Thumb (Nov 27, 2009)

What i don't understand, he says he doesn't go past 1.2 - 1.4 EC. 

But his plants look like they have excessive nitrogen and the tips are burnt.

Can anyone explain this?

Here is a pic from this grow, the tips are BARELY BARELY BARELY burnt you have to look hard.

https://www.rollitup.org/members/heath-robinson-albums-heath-picture70264-dscf1855.jpg

Photo below from his strainguide grow.

http://strainguide.org/wp-content/uploads/racks/16DSCF7899.JPG


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## squarepush3r (Nov 27, 2009)

Black Thumb said:


> What i don't understand, he says he doesn't go past 1.2 - 1.4 EC.
> 
> But his plants look like they have excessive nitrogen and the tips are burnt.
> 
> ...


he commented somewhere in this thread, that plants will do fine with undernutrients, but will die with over nutrients. In fact, there is a large area from where a plant will be over fertilized, to where it will show less yields because of too little nutrients. So, he aims low and never risks over-fertilizing, and unless there is something he didn't tell us, it seems to work well for him.


I think its probably posted somewhere in this thread, but did anyone catch which brand/type of nutrients/additives Heath uses?

-Square


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## Black Thumb (Nov 27, 2009)

Did anyone ever copy down his formula From OG or Hg420 or the other places he used to dwell?

Curious what nutes he was using.

It seems at 800ppm - 1000ppms My plants are showing Nitrogen Def and starving. 
I would like to use his low EC system which would put me at 500ppm half of what i use now.

But i just cant find any logic to this, its more of a faith thing.

If you are around and lurking Heath Please clear this up for me.


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## resinraider (Nov 27, 2009)

Dam! This looks sik. I have a question. U said u did areo b4, did u use the round piping for that as well? I'm jus wondering how u kept water from leaking out of the tube where the net cup sits or does it fit snug to the pipe?


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## VertFarmer (Dec 2, 2009)

*Ok for all of you who don't feel like reading the entire thread, I have summerized most of the important points from Heath below. Most of the questions asked have been answered earlier, so check this out if you need info.*


·It holds 86 plants,

·I have grown a lot of KC brains stock and my favorites are KC 36, Leda Uno and Mango hope that helps.

·If you are looking for yield and quality get something from serious seeds, AK47, chronic, white russian and buble gum are all excellent and easy to grow.

·I would suggest a sea of green using spacing&#8217;s between plants at a maximum of 12inch spacing.

·at about 3 weeks into flower I usually trim the bottom third of the plants which helps form better buds higher up the plant. In any case you should remove any weak growth.

·Its approx 5 foot tall

·It is 62 inches (155cm) external diameter and the same shape as the inside.

·its very easy to clean, the roots pull out in one piece and any bits can be swilled out into the res, or I can simply pull the ends off each run.

·I never sterilise the systems I run unless I have had a problem.

·we are at week 1 of 12/12 and i have just taken 100+ cuttings off the plants in the vert ready for the next round

·If you keep the nutrient temps below 74f and circulate then the water will stay sweet

·I enter the vert there (where feedline enters) its quite simple to do, I will give the plants a trim in a weeks time and after that I wont enter it again until harvest.

·The plants should end up around 12 to 14 inches tall.

·I am using Vitalink at an EC of 1.0

·A 400l per hour pump is more than enough I run this one (edit: MaxiJet 1000) on a bypass to reduce the flow,

·I was running the 3K (Sunpulse bulb) last week but have decided to change back to my normal growlux HPS as I was having too much growth and the budding seemed later than normal. I 
am running the Sunpulse bulbs on a *bush grow* and they are fine so it might just be that they aren&#8217;t ideally suited to vertical grows?.

·The adjustable collars are there because I like to experiment and they allow me to run the tubes full or empty, they don&#8217;t need to be adjustable though because the best way to run the system is flooded to the bottom of the pots. This could be done with a dam which wasn&#8217;t adjustable.

·The secret is to recirculate the nutrients quickly and then there will be plenty of DO due to the water surface to air contact. If you want to run it as an nft system then there would be no need for the collars.

·the res is quite small probably 10 gallon or something like. It is topped up automatically from the mains supply. If you couldn&#8217;t do that then the res would have to be bigger.

·I don&#8217;t need mothers as the cuttings are taken from the plants in the vertical about two weeks into flower.

·Trimming: yes I take off unwanted leaves and small weak shoots throughout the grow until about the 4th week of flower.

·The cuttings are used in this grow were 3 weeks old grown in 1 inch rockwool blocks. I place them into the netpot and fill with hydroton. The water level in the tube touches the bottom of the net pot so there is no problem of them drying out.

·3 weeks as cuttings under fluros and one week in the system, normally i wouldn&#8217;t veg in the system but on this occasion I did.

·The system is partially drained once a week and new nutrients added.

·I always use a carbon filter to remove smells and so should you!. The fan at the bottom is to move the air around the grow.

·The intake is passive and I exchange the air in the room twice a minute whatever system I am using.

·To maximise yield you have to surround the bulb, and the optimum internal size is 4ft.

·4 rows 8 inch spacing.

·The smell is easily dealt with by using a good quality carbon filter which is rated higher than the extraction of your room.

·The adhesive is silicone sealer, if you want to make sure that you are buying the right type you can use the stuff they make glass fish tanks out of as its non toxic and lasts forever.

·Contrary to what the nutrient manufacturers want you to believe they are pretty much all the same, I am using Vitalink on this grow but I also use Canna and Ionic which is the easiest to use as it is a one part nutrient.

·The plants stay green because for the first two or three weeks of flower I keep them on veg nutrients to stop premature yellowing and leaf drop at the end of the grow.

·The health of the plants depends on many factors but important ones to consider are ventilation, cool nutrient temps, making sure the roots have plenty of dissolved oxygen, and don&#8217;t over feed the plants I typically feed at an EC of 1.2.

·week 6 of 12/12 and everything is running as expected and the EC is still at 1.0.

·the last two pics are of the clones which will be going into the system when these come out. They are in some bread trays which I have modified into a simple ebb and flow!.

·that viking looks alot like northern lights #5,someone gave me a cutting thats from 96 he said it was NL#5 it finishes in about 50 days,it looks a lot like that.

·The harvest was 46 0z (1288g = 2.15g/W!)

·I dry at a relative humidity of approx 62 and temps of approx 72, the stems should crack rather than bend when fully dry

·the buds also need to feel dry to the touch but obviously not too dry that they crumble to dust, a humidity of 62 helps prevent this.

·I never flush in any case as I don't like to feed at high nutrient concentrations.

·I use 600w hps Sylvania Growlux bulbs, I have tried many other makes but I have settled on these, I consider them the best.

·the secret to any clone grow is the ability keep healthy mother plants and be confident that if you take 1000 cuttings you will have 100% success or as near that as humanly possible.

·I keep my big mother plants in water/aquafarms

·the cuttings are rooted in 1" rockwool blocks as these will transplant into any medium once rooted.

·If I grow from cuttings I definitely trim them up as I want them spaced close together and to grow a single cola,

·Growing 12/12 from seed means that the plant grows a single cola without much help so I dont tend to do much on this grow.

·The whole system runs in a full condition the water level is toutching the bottom of the net pots. The pump runs 24/7 so in effect what we have is similar to deep water culture but the main difference is the fast flow rate and I never leave a gap under the net pots

·recirculating deep water culture hybrid system. This sounds complicated but is actually very simple and much more effective than a simple deep water culture system.

From Heath's mini vertical
·it uses one 600w MH and one mj1000 pump. It holds up to 100 cuttings but on this occasion had 70+

·It measures 44" across and stands 30" high

·the yield was 38.4 Oz = 1.8 grams per watt


Enjoy

-- VertFarmer


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## VertFarmer (Dec 2, 2009)

*I too have a few questions for Heath in case he comes by some day and feels like spending a couple of minutes:*

1.Do you use any additives besides your basic hydro nutes as in flower, trich and root boosters, anti gibberelins for stretch control (e.g. bushmaster, phosphoload) and if so can you recommend any products in particular? Are your stated EC values exclusive booster content?

2.In your Viking grow you used an EC of 1.0 and for your Chronic&Critical Mass grows an EC of 1.2. Are these numbers based on RO water and if so, do you consider RO key? 

3.You have written that you always replace the air twice per minute. This is up to 6 times higher than the standard advise. Why do you use such a high air exchange rate? Do you reckon it is a key part of your succes regarding high yields (CO2) or is it more to control temp/hum?

4.When you say you replace air twice per minute (120 air exchanges/hour) do you take your carbon filter into account or is this purely based on the stated capacity of the fan? That is, do you multiply the volume to be replaced by 120 or do you multiply by 240, given that a carbon filter reduces efficiency by 50%? 

5. You apparently consider Sylvania Grolux the best HPS bulbs. A lot of growers have had problems with these bulbs in combination with digi ballasts. What kind of ballast do you use and have you had any problems with these bulbs?

6. How much air circulation do you find suitable for these systems? Will a 6&#8221; clip-on fan do or is it too small?

7. Your Critical Mass run thread was never finished sadly. What yields did you achieve on that strain in the flooded vert? 

Thanks again, --VertFarmer


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## greenyield (Dec 15, 2009)

i have seen an upto date post by heath on another site called growkind and breedbay, he has a perpetual harvest wilma going on.
i think he has lost interest in this thread or whatever.

i have to question 26oz from 10 plants though, they dont even fill out a 1m sq space. 
he seems to do what no other person can.
it all seems to good to be true.


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## friendlyfarmer (Dec 30, 2009)

greenyield said:


> i have seen an upto date post by heath on another site called growkind and breedbay, he has a perpetual harvest wilma going on.
> i think he has lost interest in this thread or whatever.
> 
> i have to question 26oz from 10 plants though, they dont even fill out a 1m sq space.
> ...


I haven't seen the grow you are speaking of so I can't make a judgement. However, with this setup his yield seems entirely possible since he's claiming approximately 1/2 oz per plant. Also, I have seen a single plant in a DWC Scrog that yielded a full pound under a 400W hps. It's on ICmag somewhere if you wanna check it out. Anyways what I'm trying to say is i think it's definitely possible to get insane yields with a little innovation and a serious investment of time. Just imagine what would be possible if _everyone_ was able to experiment without chance of legal trouble! Can you send me a link to the grow you're speaking of? Thanks in advance!

Awesome^&#8734; Heath!


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## Heath Robinson (Dec 31, 2009)

Hi *VertFarmer*

Good questions,

1, No I dont use additives, on the tree grows I sometimes use liquid silicon which helps prevent bud rot on large colas. If yo feel like you need to use an additive try PK13/14 as its cheap and is a belt and braces approach (if your plants have a P or K deficiency it will help).

2, No the dissolved solids in my tap water are only .2 so I dont need to use RO. RO is definitely worth considering if you have high EC as a starting point.

3, I do it to control the temp and humidity, I have found that the higher rates save me lots of problems with mould due to dense colas. (I dont use co2).

4, I make sure the carbon filter is rated at whatever I want my extraction to be.

5, Up to press the Sylvania Grolux have given me the best results. I have seen that others have had problems with them but luckily I haven't. I use the old lumatek ballasts (silver) and the new blue lumatek's with the super lumens switch.

6, Due to the high extraction rate in these rooms only a small amount of air movement is needed but I find a big slow fan is better than a small high revving fan.

7, Sorry I cant remember! I have run a few strains through her, I usually only remember if I post up the weight in a grow thread.


*greenyield*, thanks for stopping by and adding your comments.

*
friendlyfarmer* I think a lot of what you say is true, I have spent my growing time looking at growing from different angles and thinking outside of the box. All I ask is for growers to take the best bits in my threads and use the information anyway they see fit. 

One of the reasons my threads are detailed are so others can replicate the grows. I am a firm believer in "repeatability" what I mean by this is the ability of others to copy the system and get the same results as me which many have done in the past.

Growers run the same risk whether they are growing poorly or growing well. 

I will be putting up a new thread later in which I am running a scrog with a flip flop swiching between two 600w shades over the grow, should be interesting I will post up the link later.


Thanks to you all for calling in

Heath


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## InvestInMe (Jan 4, 2010)

Awesom welcome back


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## mrduke (Jan 4, 2010)

My god happy new year to us,..... Theres been a H.R siteing, thanks heath


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## jflo (Jan 7, 2010)

Heath Robinson said:


> Thanks *Picasso345*
> 
> nowthen *Aeroking*, you have obviously been reading the wrong growthreads then! lol. I can show plenty of my own examples from a single cannabis tree grow which weighed 42 0z to numerous grow threads vertical and sog.
> 
> ...


sick ass design!!! very tight looking and efficient...only thought would be that the pvc is a rather small diameter and it will limit your root ball possibilities...but if it works for you..dont try to fix it!!!! love the stadium riser approach to maximize the vertical light foot print!


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## ~Shhh~ (Jan 15, 2010)

Damn heath you have really stepped your game up since I last seen you on the boards man! 2pgw! Sizzlin budddy, your really cooking on gas...

Nice to see some old skool heads still about,

peace

supanoob!!!


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## jnuggs (Jan 16, 2010)

Heath - My question was..are the pipes even..like this..?

| 
| 
| 
| 

so that the bottom plant's main stem grows out a bit, around the curve of the tube above it, then upwards?


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## mr.smileyface (Jan 21, 2010)

Heath Robinson said:


> Good questions AeroKing,
> 
> I could add misters very easily but I wont as there would be little to no advantage and would make a simple design complicated.
> 
> ...


you should do the 600 for weeks 1-4 and the 1000w for weeks 5-8. 
They might get to close to. you should tie them back or putt some lines going around so they dont fall forward.(They Might Get To Heavy)  Does the water run through the pipes 24 hours?


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## horribleherk (Jan 21, 2010)

i will definatly be watching


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## sherriberry (Jan 22, 2010)

if a company would manufacture that "wall garden" but with a larger internal chamber, like 2 ft thick... then all a person would have to do is put HP aero sprayers in there, and it would be game over....

it would be the most effecient way to grow a plant per watt... hands down


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## Dillinger (Jan 22, 2010)

Heath, beautiful grow! How tall above the floor did your canopy reach at its highest?

Anyone find a US source for the orange pipes?


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## squarepush3r (Jan 22, 2010)

Dillinger said:


> Heath, beautiful grow! How tall above the floor did your canopy reach at its highest?
> 
> Anyone find a US source for the orange pipes?


the pipes are pretty standard Home Depot 4" PVC i believe


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## Dillinger (Jan 23, 2010)

squarepush3r said:


> the pipes are pretty standard Home Depot 4" PVC i believe


They are PVCu or soil PVC with self sealing joints. They make a leak proof assembly that is easy to put together and take apart. Standard PVC requires glue as a joint sealant and have the potential to leak at the seams more readily than PVCu.

Anyone have a US source?


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## madcatter (Jan 23, 2010)

Probably one of the most innovative designs in years... thre may be some kinks to work out... like heavy cola restraining system.

For short haeavy indicas, this could be the holy grail.... great job...


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## Dillinger (Jan 25, 2010)

A couple more Q's for you Heath.

Do you think that the roots were at all cramped in the 4"? I can get the dirt pipe in 4, 5 and 6 inch diameters and just wondering if yield could be increased with one of the larger diameter pipes.

I'm curious about how much water is in the pipes when fully loaded. If you open all the dams, does the 10 gal reservoir hold all the water that was in the pipes?

Thanks again for this wonderful thread. I'm inspired to build one of these!


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## W Dragon (Jan 25, 2010)

hey people i'm no pro but have used soil or waste pipes as they are commonly know here in the uk they can be bought in most diy stores and at just about any decent builders merchants they simply push together with a rubber o ring on the inside to create a water tight seal the rubber o ring as i have seen a few of you refer to it as is also called a rubber flange not much point to this just thought it may help any1 looking for it seriousy guys try your builders merchants or yards, by the way heath awsome mate i may be doing some converting after this + rep for an awsome job never seen anything like it before especially with simple parts that can be bought down the road from me


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## kendog000 (Jan 26, 2010)

I've read through this thread twice from start to finish, Heaths grows are simply amazing, to get the yields he's achieving with a single 600, and low EC's is awesome. He clearly post more than enough information for even the most green of novies to duplicate this system, and we all know his pics prove his results. The only question i have on the entire process, or set up is the top. In post 102, the absolute last pic, the top almost seems to have a dome like shape to. Is this the case or just my eyes playing tricks on me. Is infact the top closed, or does it remain open? Once i work out this last detail i will begin to assemble my own flooded tube vert from all the info in this thread. Heath, you the man brother, thanks for sharing all this with us.


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## HookdOnChronics (Jan 27, 2010)

god damn do I hate threads that are this fucking long.......... Cool ass mother fucking grow, but all I want is to see some pix of the plants in the vert grow..... Anybody at all know what pages have pix??? Cuz I'm not about to go through 74 pages of nonsense.....


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## namknuks (Jan 27, 2010)

Nice job mate.


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## sherriberry (Jan 27, 2010)

click this link first so that you can follow what im about to say...

http://www.lowes.com/pd_98360-84240-03911%252F6_0_?productId=3048138&Ntt=recycling&Ntk=i_products&pl=1&currentURL=/pl__0__s?newSearch=true$Ntt=recycling

i was walking around lowes tonight, and saw these...

while these may not be ideal, here is my basic idea...

get a vertical chamber, that is a couple feet deep.

put plant sites on the front of the chamber, and put sprayers on the back wall of the chamber, and have all the aero hosing outside the back wall of the chamber.. (so its cool and out of the light and not in the chamber so its easy access)

while these bins picured above obviously dont have a HOLE the size of a net pot...

im looking for something that does, or perhaps an adaper piece of plastic that i could attach to a verticle chamber.

point is... high pressure aero is the best of the best.

so why not combine this great verticle idea, with hp aero?

the verticle chambers could be wider and deeper than those silly tubs i linked... 

and the sides of the verticle can be wedged in shape, so that when you sit all the verticle chambers next to eachother, they form a circle or octagon, whatever.

and you put one on rollers, and that way it is your door to enter the circle, and all the others can be stationary.

none of the chambers bottoms will be on the ground... they will have legs or a stand so that their excess water can drain and gravity feed back to the main res.

you put one big fat drain pipe that spirals around the full circle one time, going under each chamber. 

Each chamber would have a drain bulkhead fitting, and a hose or pipe that gravity feeds to the main pipe that spirals one time, and ends back at the main res.

then you have a hp aero pump, and have 4 mist sprayers in a vertical line up the backwall of the vertical chambers.

each vertical would be about 5 ft high, and have 4 or 5 layers of rows for plants.

if someone was good with fiberglass or molds, this would be a great product to market and sell because its like legos...

you can buy one vertical, and keep adding more and more until you have a complete circle, then do it again, and make more circles.

Im also for making it taller than heaths, and putting in 2 600 watt bulbs per circle...

one about 3 ft off the ground, and the other about 6 ft off the ground.

the lights would have a compound effect on plants because youd have all the success heaths does, plus even more light than before.

plus you could then take the tube higher, and maximize square footage of the footprint of this setup and yeild and weight of buds.

now someone who is good with fiberglass make this so i dont go waste even more time and money on shit that i know someone can do better than me


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## sherriberry (Jan 27, 2010)

if anyone knows where i can get a zigzag plastic piece, for the inside wall that faces the light...

i can get flat plastic pvc panel for the other 3 walls of the chamber...

but the wall the plants set in has to be stair stepped with the zig zag shape for each level of plants, so that the netpots sit almost level on each teir

let me know...


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## Dillinger (Jan 28, 2010)

If its aero you are interested in there is no need to invent anything. Stinkbuddies has it all figured out for you. Just follow the plan.


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## Dillinger (Jan 28, 2010)

HookdOnChronics said:


> god damn do I hate threads that are this fucking long.......... Cool ass mother fucking grow, but all I want is to see some pix of the plants in the vert grow..... Anybody at all know what pages have pix??? Cuz I'm not about to go through 74 pages of nonsense.....


Yeah - look at pages 1 - 60. That should save you some time


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## sherriberry (Jan 28, 2010)

Dillinger said:


> If its aero you are interested in there is no need to invent anything. Stinkbuddies has it all figured out for you. Just follow the plan.


 

wow, it blows my mind when people get arrogant and think they are going to correct someone...

and they themselves have no clue whats going on.

i have stinkbuds system. It is not aero.

He calls it that and stupid people believe it.

HP aero, is exactly what its called, high pressure. It creates mist. Fine microns.

The only way to create fine micron mist is to exceed 40psi of line pressure thought a special nozzle.

Fish tank pumps stinkbud uses... 3psi.

Sprayers stinkbud uses... cant create mist or fine microns.

The tubes stinkbud uses... completely defeat the purpose of true aero mist, and real aeroponic roots cant grow in those tubes because the tubes are too tight.

True aero, the roots get over a foot in diameter, and several ft long, and the mist has to be able to land on this pom pom root mass from all directions.

This requires a large chamber around the roots.

Why dont you stop correcting people who have systems that make stinkbuds look like a happy meal toy, and listen instead.


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## Dillinger (Jan 28, 2010)

My apologies sherriberry - didn't realize you are so sensitive. Wipe that tear and take a deep breath.


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## sherriberry (Jan 28, 2010)

Dillinger said:


> My apologies sherriberry - didn't realize you are so sensitive. Wipe that tear and take a deep breath.


 
dont worry, there were no tears.

id stop worrying about giving advice of any kind to anyone, because apparently you have a hard time processing the world around you correctly.

theres a word for what you are, but we will see if you can figure it out on your own.


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## sherriberry (Jan 28, 2010)

Alright, sorry for so many pics at once, i was drawing some stuff and got carried away.
These are TOP views of areo chamber shapes. I would make the curved walls out of pvc sheets which come in 4x8 sheets, and can be cut easily.
These chambers would be about 4 or 5 ft tall, and have an area under them and have a rigid stand at the base and up on top to keep them in shape.
Under the chambers, there would be a shower bladder as sold at lowes, which comes in any length you want, and its prob 4 feet wide. This bladder would be sandwiched and secured between the bottom frame and the pvc walls, so all water running down would hit the bladder.
The bladder will have a bulkhead drain fitting, and gravity drain to a main pipe that comes around under each chamber, and ends at the res.

In one of the pictures, the orange boxes are the res's, and the orange arrows signify the flow of the drain pipe.

The drain pipe would be similar to what heath already has set up, just no plants growing out of it

As far as securing the platns to the vertical walls, i have a solution, but i dont have a way to picture it,a nd describing it wouldnt make much sense until i can picture it, but it involves using a pvc pipe, and dilling a hole in the wall, and using a 45deg pipe bend, and putting the netpot in the pipe, and having the other end of the pipe go through the wall.

Securing it is the tricky part, but ive got it figured out i think

Inside the chambers, there will be hp aero misters.

I drew up a bunch of configureations, but i like the ones at the bottom the best.

The red squares at the bottom represent additional floor sitting rubbermaids, which would have plants growing up from those as well, so you have walls and floor covered.

green represents faces of the chamber that have plants frowing from them.

to enter some of the grow rooms, if a single chamber was on wheels, it could be clocked, or rotated, thus allowing a person to enter the grow circle.

im still trying to figure out if i want to build a fram that has a curve to it, and what i would make it out of.

The curve actually helps the pvc sheet stay rigid vertically, kind of like tape measure tape does.

hope this helps you guys follow what im trying to do.


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## GypsyBush (Jan 28, 2010)

HookdOnChronics said:


> Anybody at all know what pages have pix??? .....



He keeps them *ALL* in his PICTURE ALBUM...

https://www.rollitup.org/members/heath-robinson-34876/albums/heath-1057/


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## sherriberry (Jan 28, 2010)

This one is probably my favorite tho, as far as being doable, and cheap, and still function as I want it to.

I forgot to put tubs on the floor too, but you get the idea.

I figure each one of these chambers would be about 4 ft long, and almost 2 ft wide.

so figure it will fit in a 15x8 ft area no problem... and chambers could be made shorter for a different sized area.

i put 2 orange res's in this one... but youd really only need one res, 

but 2 would come in handy if you had 2 stages of plants, so you get kind of a perpetual harvest.

Tubs on the floor could also hold earlier clones that still need root development before being able to fully utilize the aero chambers setup


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## sherriberry (Jan 29, 2010)

if you had the space and had the money, this setup would probably out yeild just about anything else using only 6 lights.

so you figure heath is getting 42oz off a 600 watt light.

here we have 6 of those, so, 3600 watts...

and you figure his chamber isnt hp aero, so you are up to over 3 lbs per light, so at least 18 lbs if you did this setup.

as far as the sprayers in the middle chambers go, you can run the feed lines up on the ceiling outside the grow room and then have them drop down into the chambers vertically, and be attached to sprayer T's, suspended in mid air in between oposing walls.

id do an air tight panda wrap room around all this stuff, and then have co2 and a portable ac, and just keep the air in the grow room, and the portible ac dehumidifies it all, and then you dont have to vent and worry about smell, or worry about c02 escaping.

You figure 18+lbs, in a 14x20 ft room...

and then figure we could add another row of plant sites instead of just the 4 or however many heath uses.

If you have a panda ceiling, then the plant will grow across the roof over the light, which is fine.

so extra plant sites, plus if you put tubs on the ground around the rooms to hold even more plants...

your talking prob 24lbs or more...

off 6 600w bulbs.... every 8 weeks.

This would have to be the most efficient way to grow if electricity is an issue.


edit: i put the 2 res's in the corners in the wrong spot, youd want to put them up by the door probably so you could put this in a smaller room, and not need a walk way all the way around the back to get to the res's


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## GypsyBush (Jan 29, 2010)

this is funny...


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## NewGrowth (Jan 29, 2010)

I'm so confused . . .


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## GypsyBush (Jan 29, 2010)

can you say...


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## sherriberry (Jan 29, 2010)

well, if you read the last 20 pages of this thread, you will see that many other people are trying to take heaths concept and debate how to improve it.

or pretend i just came out of nowhere, its cool


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## Dillinger (Jan 29, 2010)

Sherribery. I was trying to gently steer you toward something so you would not continue to hijack this thread with your cool new design. That didn't work so I will be more direct. Perhaps you should open a new thread for those interested in what you have to say. This thread is about Heath Robinson's system. Thanks!


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## sherriberry (Jan 29, 2010)

greenyield said:


> well, where do i start.
> i have the bits and pieces to build heaths mini vertical, and i had the coco bag vertical idea that i posted on here but what i really want is to have a vertical system that uses no medium at all.
> that leaves me with nft or aeroponics, i had this idea to build something like this:
> 
> ...


hey fools...

long before you ever showed up... back on page 65, 50 posts ago...

we had a discussion going about aero chambers and what heaths input on them was since hes the master of this.

then you little peons who think you are his little chihulahula guard dogs start giving me shit because i took a while to respond because ive been so busy...

so .... how bout you quit hijacking a thread ....

where the rest of us are trying to invent things and get eachothers opinions, and you are to busy worrying about whos band wagon you are going to pledge alegience

heath

stinkbud

or ?????

and realize, this isnt about teams, we dont need your help because youve already proven your ignorance by attempting to correct us into thinking stinkbuds system is aero... when its not.

read and learn...

ask heath questions...

ask me or anyone else here questions...

or shut up.

but dont tell me to not post on a thread about a discussion that is older than your existence to this thread, i just went through the hassle of siting it because it appears you are all too stupid to even understand what im tlaking about and the discussion that was going on before you showed up.

in other words... grow a brain and some class before you start telling people who know a whole lot more about this stuff than you... what to do, and where to post.

if heath wants me to leave, and doesnt want to comment on our ideas in attempts to improve his system further...

hes welcome to ask me to leave, but my questions and ideas are sincere...

im not here to bash heath... what hes done is awesome...

and just as hes made improvements to our cause to grow plants...

now im trying to do the same.

does that make sense lizard boy?


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## Hidden Agenda (Jan 29, 2010)

How about ditching the ad hominem attacks. No reason to be such a dick.


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## MediMary (Jan 30, 2010)

amazing sketches.....


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## Leftorium (Jan 30, 2010)

Holy shit - your setup is extraordinary!


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## laughingduck (Jan 30, 2010)

sherriberry: How about heaths system x2 stacked on top of each other? 5 pounds every 2 months with 2 600 watters. I am in the middle of building one, the only real difference is mine has ez-cone tips inside so you clone in the system. When the roots are good, pull the spray bars out and use it just like heaths setup. I left one side out to be able to get in the system thou. I am not doing anything that hasn't been proven so i am somewhat confident it will work.


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## sherriberry (Jan 31, 2010)

medimary, thanks bro

laughing duck...

yeah, i think it will work for sure.

But, if it were me, i would honestly just do this....

i would get one or 2 large (this is what i use) the big 4 ft rubbermaids,a nd put 2 inch netpots all across the top of the lid, it will hold about 100 of them each.

put an H of pvc and ez clone sprayers in there on top of a 500gph pump, and fill it about 5 inches deep with water with very light nutes, and let them rip

think of it like a giant easy cloner... but you dont need the lid over them...

just use t5 lights, and get the 4 ft 8 bay lights, and just run 4 or even less lights until they give root, then turn all 8 lights on and watch the plants rip. Youll have long long roots in a week from when they first give root.

2 inch netpots are the way to go imho, the plants love them, and they are cheap and you can fit tons of clones into a small area.

so, with 2 tubs, thats 200+ clones every 2 weeks..

reason i say this is... complete your room... make it the circle, i think you will kick yourself if you dont.

Use the 2 inch netpots in the pipes instead of the 4 inchers like heath does.

dont mess with sprayers, way to much hassle i think, it will be leak city

as far as putting 2 on top of eachother, i think the reason most dont is because of ceiling height limitations.

if you got the room, i say go for it.

even if you cant double the 4 rows to 8, but maye get 5 or 6, its still well worth it.

At that point, just do mulitiple circles, and dont forget to upgrade to a 1000 watt towards the end of budding if you can...

id only do the 2 600's if you can add the 2 or more extra plant rows

i wouldnt get rid of the circle shape tho, otherwise you are undoing what heath has done... the water tumbling after each level is KEY to keeping oxygen in the water.

and by getting rid of one side of the circle, you undo your extra rows up top, and make it less efficient, know what i mean?

goodluck, let us know how it turns out however you go.


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## sherriberry (Jan 31, 2010)

the solution ive been looking for...

saw these tonight at home depot, they will work, i will cut large holes in the top and bottoms of them and just stack them 4 high, plus set them on some sort of platform so that gravity brings the water down from the bottom container to the res

cut 1 or 2 holes on the flap for 2 inch netpots, and face that inward towards the light obviously.

I checked for leak possibility, and there is none, the way the sti in eachother, the water will stay inside them even with the tops and bottoms carved out to make it one vertical chamber.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053









I found another site too that has hopper style tubs that stack, only problem is they dont have the lid over the hopper side... so the other bin itself is the lid, on top... but on the hopper opening, there is no lid, so it would be a lot more labor intensive, but they have even wider and longer hoppers than the one i just linked above.








http://www.simplastics.com/items.asp?subcat=3 

once i get some of these going i will create a thread and let you guys know how it goes.

I wish i could inspect the bottom pictured tubs in a store, but they are only online, and their headquarters appears to be in maimi FL.

... good an excuse for a vacation.

in the meantime, i wont bother anyone on this thread anymore, ill talk about this elsewhere i guess


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## GypsyBush (Jan 31, 2010)

Please drop us a line here when you start a thread... I wanna see...

Best of Luck...


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## laughingduck (Jan 31, 2010)

Sherryberry, what are you trying to achieve with your setup? I want to help, maybe we could start a thread about vertical designs.


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## snutter (Jan 31, 2010)

sherriberry said:


> *if you had the space and had the money, this setup would probably out yeild just about anything else using only 6 lights.
> 
> so you figure heath is getting 42oz off a 600 watt light.
> 
> ...


Hello, sherriberry. First off, I like your design, and ideas I've read so far. 

But, I'm not sure and could be very wrong here, but I think that one of the main points of Heath's system is to be able to get such a HUGE yield from just ONE light... I mean, I'm running four 400W HPS lights in my flower room (not to mention the two 400W MH lights I use for VEG, so six 400W lights total), and I get no where near what he does with one 600watter.. Of course, my system is no where near as elaborate, and I'm not really concerned with this.. However, i would SO LOVE to produce that much weed with one 600W light. That's such a minimal amount of electricity to use, and I would be less stressed out about the worry of using "too much" power to stay inconspicuous... Ya know??

Having said that, I may be taking your idea the wrong way... You may be saying that using more lights increases the yield, and that's a good thing?  yeah??? In that aspect, you are correct. I'm sitting here thinking that if I could use just two 600W lights and incorporate a system like heath or you have suggested and get 80oz's a harvest, it just might be worth the time and effort to switch over to something like you two have shown here.

Thanks for your posts. Your ideas are intriguing. 

Heath - your system flat out kicks some major ass, buddy!!!

-S


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## sherriberry (Jan 31, 2010)

snutter said:


> Hello, sherriberry. First off, I like your design, and ideas I've read so far.
> 
> But, I'm not sure and could be very wrong here, but I think that one of the main points of Heath's system is to be able to get such a HUGE yield from just ONE light... I mean, I'm running four 400W HPS lights in my flower room, and I get no where near what he does with one 600watter.. Of course, my system is no where near as elaborate, and I'm not really concerned with this.. However, i would SO LOVE to produce that much weed with one 600W light. That's such a minimal amount of electricity to use, and I would be less stressed out about the worry of using "too much" power to stay inconspicuous... Ya know??
> 
> ...


correct, heaths purpose is to get a ton from one light.

my purpose is to get more from one light.

Anyone who knows about high pressure aero knows it makes bigger roots, and bigger roots mean more absorbtion, and thus bigger yeilds per plant.

Now, diagram above is simply showing that... you could do 6 of these in x amount of space.

so, yes, huge yeilds from one light.

6x huge yeild from 6 lights.

hopefully that makes sense.


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## sherriberry (Jan 31, 2010)

laughingduck said:


> Sherryberry, what are you trying to achieve with your setup? I want to help, maybe we could start a thread about vertical designs.


 
yeah, my mind moves a mile a minute.

believe it or not, im still on my first grow ... ever... and during that grow, ive hand built 4 different setups, and just figuring everythign out.

ive gone from knowing nothing, to knowing more than most people on this forum it seems like.

track down the masters, and ask them a billion questions, and have a good grasp on physiscs.

the chemestry part is my next step.. physics comes very natural to me.

in the next few months i hope to be mixing my own nutes from scratch.

im going to keep looking for vertical stacked tubs, and make sure that there is nothing better out there.

I still dont like how thin those tubs are with the lids on them...

i like the width of the second tubs i linked, but dont like the absense of a lid.

at the rate ive been going, ill have an idea that makes this look stone age by next week

i have another invention (unless they already got them)

but basically something to get the vertical cord and light to kind of swing around ina circle a bit...

this keeps all leaves getting light because the light is slightly moving.

ill have a batcave i california one day, and put up photos that people think are computer animated


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## sherriberry (Feb 1, 2010)

if you want to see my evolution of ideas and get a TON of random extremely useful info, go to this other thread...

my personal thread is here, and i will be continuing my ideas over there and get out of heaths way even tho it appears he has vanished

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/266935-new-nft-nutrient-film-technique.html

and we also chat about aero stuff here, every person on this thread is a jedi master, so before you even think about correcting one of them, superglue your fingers together and just read it again, because chances are, they are right

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/254876-my-true-hp-aero-plug-57.html


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## laughingduck (Feb 1, 2010)

Sherriberry: check this
NCC National controls corporation
solid state timer
model CKK-3600-461
range 36-3600 sec.

This is the timer i use, it requires an 8 pin socket to connect to it, but it works awsome for me.


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## Malenki (Feb 4, 2010)

Your grows awesome man. I am finnally in the thread so now no more looking 30 minutes to show a friend.


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## jigfresh (Feb 5, 2010)

I can not say what has left a more lasting impression on my mind. The grow.... or the thread. I'm inspired... going to make a smaller version in my 2' x 3' closet. I'll make my own thread for it... instead of using this as my grow journal (wink wink).

Greenyield... at first I thought ill of you. But I realized what kind of guy you were. The kind who wants to get shit done. Love your build. Props.

Fatman... love the way you put down people without college degrees. Engineers = Thinking leaders. Contractors/ Drivers = Idiot Sheep. I also love you don't accept PM's. Tired of people telling you similar things I guess.

EDIT: LOL... it gets better... you even tell people they complain about you wrong. (post 770)

Sherriberry... I have been around RIU for about a year now... and you win the award for most completely jacked thread. I know you have your reasons about everyone else jacking it... but you win. And that's for real. And seriously... what is with hitting 'Enter' after every fragment sentence. Are you taking vertical growing to the forums... vertical posting, haha.

And yes... I admit I am behaving no better than most... adding my drivel to the pile already here. It's like peer pressure or something.

Heath... *Thank you so much* for sharing this with the world.


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## MrLzyBones (Feb 7, 2010)

Yes this is a great thread and i'll be building one of these and then several more when I get its tics worked out.

My main question is that when I look at descriptions on hydro nutes I see that they say for systems that use water/nutes once and then drain away. But this system and the one I used years ago to grow tomato's uses a system that runs 24/7.

So do I just use say AN hydro nutes and just run them 24/7.

I'll be putting femmed autoflowers in the capsule.

MLB


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## GypsyBush (Feb 7, 2010)

sherriberry said:


> and we also chat about aero stuff here, every person on this thread is a jedi master, so before you even think about correcting one of them, superglue your fingers together and just read it again, because chances are, they are right
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/254876-my-true-hp-aero-plug-57.html


They are also rude and cocky as hell...

but the thread has a lot of good info... if you do not mind being freely insulted for asking a simple question...


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## tree farmer (Feb 7, 2010)

GypsyBush said:


> They are also rude and cocky as hell...
> 
> but the thread has a lot of good info... if you do not mind being freely insulted for asking a simple question...


 
im sorry if you feel insulted. i have no control over what people post in my thread any more than you do in your threads. i have never insulted or been rude to anyone. i appriciate any and all info in the thread in regards to what the threads subject is about. i try to provide the most accurate and up to date info on a subject that has very little info available and welcome anyones input that cares to contribute.


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## Heath Robinson (Feb 8, 2010)

Things seem to have got a little bit heated in here 

chill out and look at my latest find, its different to say the least!Heaths Dizzy!!!


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## CaptainPointless (Feb 8, 2010)

Heath Robinson said:


> Things seem to have got a little bit heated in here
> 
> chill out and look at my latest find, its different to say the least! Heath's Dizzy !!!


I love your FTV setup Heath! Fantastic way to utilize the maximum sq. footage available. I'm actually trying to come up with a way to do the same basic thing in a very tight area (24x24x60) -- I'm pretty well on my way with the design.

I did want to let you know, though, that your link isn't working (unless it just started to since I began this post). Once it is fixed, I'm looking forward to checking it out!

EDIT: Thanks for fixing the link, Heath! Checking it out now!


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## Heath Robinson (Feb 8, 2010)

Hi *CaptainPointless* thanks for the heads up, and good luck with your vertical if you manage to get it up and running and make a thread, point me in the right direction 


heath


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## Dillinger (Feb 8, 2010)

Heath,

Welcome back! There is something about your system I really do not understand. How do you manage the water in the pipes with such a small reservoir? I do not believe the res will hold all of the water in the pipes and I am wondering how you manage water changes, system drain, etc. I know you have a larger res in addition to the res that is part of the system. Can you please talk a little bit about the dual reservoirs and how you manage the water in the system?


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## macster (Feb 8, 2010)

does anyone know, in order to make an inside measurement of 48" how big you cut each side of the octagon.Because I'm going with a1000 watt bulb I want an inside measurement of 54 ".
I figure 2 pie r is the formula or 2x3.14x27=170 inch divided by 8 (# of sides) = 21.25 inches 
Does this make sense. Chime in anyone in the know


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## fatman7574 (Feb 9, 2010)

This link will tell you the lengths of each side of a true octagon if there were no 45 degree fittings at each joint. You will need to measure your 45 degree fittings to see how much to shorten the straight sections to make up for the fittings. You need only plug in one measurement and the chart will fill in the other measurements. If you plug in an inside dimension it would work best. The graphics should show you all you need to know except how much to shorten for the fittings.

http://buster2058.netfirms.com/octagon/calc/octagon_layout_calc.htm


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## Heath Robinson (Feb 9, 2010)

*Dillinger* The small rez is just used as an auto top up, its there simply to replace the water used by the plants and evaporation. When I drain the system it runs into the small rez which in turn overflows into a drain. If I didnt have a drain handy, I would use a rez big enough to hold all the water in the system.
hope that helps. 

Heath


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## sherriberry (Feb 10, 2010)

if anyone is thinking about doing this with sprayers, it wont be better than heaths setup because the roots will still be under water if you have the water running all the time.

however...

bioballs... the things that are blue and have 100 drip points, you see them in fish tank filters... they are plastic balls.

If i were to do this setup using the tube as heath did.

i would fill it with bioballs, and have a sprayer come in from the top fo the pipe about once every foot.

I would not have much water at all flowing in the tube... just the tiniest trickly possible.

I would not have the dams.

Just put the sprayers on a cap timer, and have them fire once every 15 min or so.

You will be amazed at how the roots expand through the bioballs... its like having soil everywhere... but no soil.

you can get the bioballs in bulk off ebay or better yet, alibaba and buy them from the manufacturer.




Not cracking on heaths setup... just giving a tip for someone who is determined to add sprayers to it... if you are going to go through the trouble, make it worth your while... get rid of the deep water and allow the roots to branch out like crazy through the bioballs.

Its like hydroton but way better


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## sherriberry (Feb 10, 2010)

better than the sprayers would be if you had a lazer cut aeration hose... snake all the way down the tube, and lays on top of the bio balls.

And then add water pressure to the aeration tube once every so often, or have it on constant but at a trickle...

at that point, you wouldnt need the spiral... you could have the tube that heath made... just go in a perfect ring, and have a vertical pipe come down through all the rings, back down to the res.

Just give each ring a slight slight tilt so that the vertical drain pipe is at the lowest point of the rings tilt.

Then you could have 4 aeration hoses, one for each ring.

It would be a lot simpler to build if it was in rings as well.

The only catch is, you have to have sprayers or some sort of feed hose in each ring of tube.... but i bet its gotta be easier to build than figuring out the geometry and dams in heaths system.

Just some ideas for anyone who wants to try


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## sherriberry (Feb 10, 2010)

and better yet, you could make them C's instead of complete rings... and that way you can have an entry point..


and jsut have a vertical pipe go down through all the C's.

-----C -----C ----C -----C

Lame diagram, but best i can do... the dead ends of the C would just have endcaps on them, and the middle of the C would be the low point in the pipe, and thats where the vertical comes down through all 4 or 5 or 6 C's

You could still do it heaths way do... only catch is, youd have to have a higher volume pumpe, and have it split 8 ways, and go to the endcaps of each C, so 2 feed lines per C

And that would give you your door... and if you made it narrow enough, the plants would bush out and bridge the gap, but you could push them out of the way when you come and go.


Id use an aeration hose around the C tho personally, and hang it from the roof of the pipe, and if you can afford it, pack the thing with bioballs.

Aero is uselss in such small confines... the bioballs with a lazer cut drip aeration hose ... on a timer, 10 min off, 30 sec on.. would beat hp aero in such tight confines i bet.


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## greenyield (Feb 15, 2010)

sherriberry said:


> and better yet, you could make them C's instead of complete rings... and that way you can have an entry point..
> 
> 
> and jsut have a vertical pipe go down through all the C's.
> ...


i like the idea of using two C shaped sections, with 2 pumps and 2 res, one for each side. it would be kind of like the coliseum. would make things easier for pruning. i may dig out me old system for another try at it afterall.
i think heath is prety cool about other people bouncing ideas around on here.
he has set the bar on the vertical tube grow and got everyone talking about going vertical.
heath has been growing vertical for at least 4 years so i think he knows what works and what doesnt.

right, i fished out my old pipes and put them in a half Decagon and thought i would be able to stack them 8 pipes high and have two sets of 8 high to make a cheap coliseum shaped system but its a no goer.
you would have to use 2x 90 degree bends to connect them for continuous flow which would leave a gap about 18" between pipes.
you could use a manifold to feed each pipe seperately but its too much for me.

stick to heaths plans.


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## sherriberry (Feb 16, 2010)

yeah, first off i meant for the C to be 7 out of 8 sides.

second, the 90 degree bends? you lost me?

I was planning on having a CROSS PIPE in the middle of the C

And this cross pipe, is simply a vertical pipe coming down and crossing through all the c's


Every C has a fused endcap at the end of it.

My point was, this would be ideal for sprayers... if someone wanted to use sprayers...

because at that point... you dont want the deep water in the tubes...

and the problem if you have the spiral is that the sprayer runoff water would compound by the bottom level, youd have all runoff from ALL sprayers up the whole spiral.

vs, if you have a vertical pipe bisect all the c's on side 4.

(there would be 7 sides, side 3 or 4 would be where the cross pipe, or x pipe would be)

and have that veritcal come down on side 4, and have all the c's with a slight tilt to bring all the water back to that cross pipe...

theres where you wouldnt have to worry about water compounding and getting deep by the bottom level. 

roots have tons of air... get sprayed every 7 min, plants would do better... period.

Add the blue bio balls in there... plants would do even better.

THIS IS FOR IF YOU WANT TO HAVE AN EXIT TO SQUEEZE THROUGH TO GET IN AND OUT, AND IF YOU WANT TO USE SPRAYERS

IT IS NOT A BAD IDEA

IT IS A BETTER IDEA TO MAKE PLANTS GROW FASTER AND HAVE MORE AIR AVAILIBLE TO THE ROOTS AND BE ABLE TO ENTER YOUR ROOM WITH EASE.

ONLY 1 PUMP AND 1 RES ARE NEEDED

IT CAN BE ADDED ONTO BY ADDING ANOTHER LEVEL AT ANY TIME DURING THE GROW... THE SPIRAL WOULD BE A NIGHTMARE TO ADD ANOTHER LEVEL ON DURING A GROW.

SPRAYERS COME IN FROM THE BACKSIDE OF THE PIPES, TO AVOID LIGHT AND HOSES STAY COOL, AND CAN BE MAINTINANCED FROM OUTSIDE THE CIRCLE IF NEED BE. RES CAN BE IN COOLER AIR, OUTSIDE THE GROW CIRCLE, AND YOU CAN PANDA WRAP THE WHOLE CIRCLE, MAKE IT AIR TIGHT, LET THE TEMPS GO UP TO 85+, GET MAX YEILD, AND KEEP YOUR RES OUT BEHIND THE CIRCLE, ADD A CHILLER IF NEED BE, AND DUE TO THE FACT THAT THE WATER IS NOT IN THE CIRCLE AT ALL TIMES, SPIRALING, WARMING UP, YOU CAN KEEP THE RES TEMPS LOW BECAUSE JUST A SMALL AMOUNT OF WATER IS SPAYED INTO THE PIPES AT A TIME, AND MOST IS ABSORBED...

VERY LITTLE RUNNOFF NEEDED IF DIALED IN CORRECTLY.... THIS KEEP THE RES COOL, AND ALLOWS PLANTS TO ABSORB AND BREATH MOST POSSIBLE AIR BETWEEN SPAYS

HOPE THIS HELPS, PLEASE DONT TURN MY IDEA INTO A DIFFEENT IDEA AND SAY IT SUCKS

BUT I UNDERSTAND I SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE CLEAR IN MY FIRST EXPLAINATION.

SORRY


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## GypsyBush (Feb 16, 2010)

I thought this was appropriate...

"*Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.*" Albert Einstein.


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## TheShroomDude (Feb 17, 2010)

Heath Robinson said:


> Things seem to have got a little bit heated in here
> 
> chill out and look at my latest find, its different to say the least!Heaths Dizzy!!!


Very different to say the least. 
I have just 1 question about the Tubes and Bulb. If I remember you said that the ladies were 2 Feet (24 inches) from the light. Is that correct, and if so would you go farther or closer(with a 600) or stay at that distance.


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## Heath Robinson (Feb 17, 2010)

TheShroomDude said:


> Very different to say the least.
> I have just 1 question about the Tubes and Bulb. If I remember you said that the ladies were 2 Feet (24 inches) from the light. Is that correct, and if so would you go farther or closer(with a 600) or stay at that distance.


No I would stay at that distance, it seems to be the optimum for a 600w.


Heath


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## Miss MeanWeed (Feb 17, 2010)

This is simply awesome.

I want to see the ABC breeding too, a purple ABC would be the ultimate in unhidden stealth. Good luck man, could very well be the future of marijuana!


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## oetzi (Feb 17, 2010)

respect man, that is well thought trough! I like the efficiency 
Excuse my ignorance, I have read through almost the entire post, but I might have missed it - How do you get in there to work on the plants. The tubes seem to be entirely closed in?
I would like to design one with two of these stacked on top of another, bad idea?

thank you


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## oetzi (Feb 17, 2010)

nevermind, I found my answer!


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## 1freezy (Feb 22, 2010)

This is close to what I had in my head to purchase but can't find anything like it online. What I do find is like 3k. So I have no tools, some skills, an a Fresca Sol I might just have to try an build something like this, it is very inspiring!

Awsome setup and grow! + rep


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## mark772 (Feb 25, 2010)

how do you solve the problem of the roots clogging the tubes?


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## 1littlesoldier1 (Feb 25, 2010)

Heath Robinson said:


> No I would stay at that distance, it seems to be the optimum for a 600w.
> 
> 
> Heath


If I remember correctly you had mentionned that your system was 5 feet and a half wide which means the plants would be 2 feet 9 inches from the bulb which is almost 3 feet. am I correct?
also how far apart are your 4 rows. in other words you mentionned the plants are 8 inches away from each other but i dont think your rows have only 8 inches apart.


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## Heath Robinson (Mar 2, 2010)

1littlesoldier1 said:


> If I remember correctly you had mentionned that your system was 5 feet and a half wide which means the plants would be 2 feet 9 inches from the bulb which is almost 3 feet. am I correct?
> also how far apart are your 4 rows. in other words you mentionned the plants are 8 inches away from each other but i dont think your rows have only 8 inches apart.


No you are not correct the inner diameter is approx 4ft, the plant centres are 8" apart 

Heath


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## fatman7574 (Mar 2, 2010)

Heath Robinson said:


> No you are not correct the inner diameter is approx 4ft, the plant centres are 8" apart
> 
> Heath


IE 8 inches from the top of one pipe to the top of the pipe above it and drill the holes for the net pots 8 inches on center. This means if the net pots are 2 inches in diamteer the hole edges will be approx 6 inches apart. Therefore the base of the individual plant stalks will be approx 8 inches apart both horizontally and vertically.


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## trippgordon (Mar 4, 2010)

I wanted to say THANK YOU to Mr Robinson for posting this. I have been working on a copy the past few months and am submitting a picture of the first week of flower. As a newcomer to hydro, I was stunned by the almost violent rate of growth in this device. I started with bagseed and a few clones I had, the picture only shows 33 plants of 62 total sites on my tubes. I am also not using the correct strains, it will take me another run or two before I can find the proper short bushy plants necessary for this.


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## Dillinger (Mar 4, 2010)

trippgordon said:


> I wanted to say THANK YOU to Mr Robinson for posting this. I have been working on a copy the past few months and am submitting a picture of the first week of flower. As a newcomer to hydro, I was stunned by the almost violent rate of growth in this device. I started with bagseed and a few clones I had, the picture only shows 33 plants of 62 total sites on my tubes. I am also not using the correct strains, it will take me another run or two before I can find the proper short bushy plants necessary for this.


Your creation is impressive! What size bulb are you running in that and what size rez and pump are you using? I'd really like to hear what you come up with in strain selection.


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## trippgordon (Mar 5, 2010)

I tried to stay as true to the original as possible, with the same dimensions and a single 600w bulb. I started with a 396 pump on the end cap but added a 633 with garden hose dimensions and that really made the water rush. I just stuck the added hose in one of the unused sites with a little duct tape. Did I mention that I was a hillbilly redneck? The res is a lowes storage bin, I think its a 32gal but not sure, I'll check. I have a purple wreck mom and the clones are liking the tubes. I also have an unknown mother of some kush? that is short, the clones are doing well. The hardest part has been coming up with enough plants to fill this thing. Everything was bought at lowes, aquarium supply, and harbor freight except for ionic nutes, light, and pots/media/ph stuff....which were bought at garden depot in Lodi...nice folks.



Dillinger said:


> Your creation is impressive! What size bulb are you running in that and what size rez and pump are you using? I'd really like to hear what you come up with in strain selection.


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## InvestInMe (Mar 5, 2010)

Trip you start your own journal?


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## expyraponicuser (Mar 5, 2010)

Hello all , 
First off, I would like to thank Heath for all the info on this grow. I started reading it some months back and I have decided to take the leap. I am going to follow Heaths Vert grow to the letter. This will be my first attempt at growing since the late 80's,back when the Pyraponics Phototron was all the rage. 
It will be no problem to build the Vert and the maintenance seems pretty idiot proof....thank God. 
I'm going shopping tomorrow for everything and I'm going to order some seeds tonight. I'm in the states so any info on a good seed bank would be appreciated.
The one question I have for Heath is, Could you give some info on your cloning system? You make brief mention to it and showed a couple of pictures, but I'm a total newb and I need all the info and pix you can give. Perhaps point me to another thread that would spell it out for me. 
Once again, thank you Heath....you are too cool for words


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## bates995 (Mar 6, 2010)

how do u get into your room?


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## jnuggs (Mar 7, 2010)

Bates995 and others with similar questions. My advice is to read through the first part of the journal. At least the first 25 to 30 pages. That is like a short story! And if you're interested, like I assume you are..since you asked a question about it.. you should be pretty excited to read and find out everything you need to know to replicate this system!

But to be nice, he only enters during the beginning of growth while the plants aren't crowding the space.. and he enters where the tubes have a slight drop.


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## trippgordon (Mar 8, 2010)

InvestInMe said:


> Trip you start your own journal?


Thats a good idea. I'll do that after this first batch is harvested. I really dislike incomplete journals, and I might still screw this all up somehow.


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## jigfresh (Mar 8, 2010)

trippgordon said:


> Thats a good idea. I'll do that after this first batch is harvested. I really dislike incomplete journals, and I might still screw this all up somehow.


I would really like it if you kept some sort of journal on the first run. That's where all the learning comes in. We can learn from you. If we only get the second grow, we won't know how to work the bugs out. You would be doing a lot of people a big service by keeping a journal now, of what works, what doesn't. Plus you would get a lot of help along the way if you did that... instead of going it alone.

Just becase you might not harvest what you would want to doesn't make it an incomplete journal. Incomplete is where someone just stops saying anything.

I mean you were inspired by this journal. You could inspire folks with yours. 

I'm keeping a jounal on my attempt... and it's going rather badly. I'm sure your's will be better. https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/306850-jigfreshs-grow-3-flooded-tube.html


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## trippgordon (Mar 8, 2010)

jigfresh said:


> I would really like it if you kept some sort of journal on the first run. That's where all the learning comes in. We can learn from you. If we only get the second grow, we won't know how to work the bugs out. You would be doing a lot of people a big service by keeping a journal now, of what works, what doesn't. Plus you would get a lot of help along the way if you did that... instead of going it alone.
> 
> Just becase you might not harvest what you would want to doesn't make it an incomplete journal. Incomplete is where someone just stops saying anything.
> 
> ...


After finally figuring out how to create a thread (I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed) I decided to start a grow journal. Dunno how to link it here but its called tripp's hillbilly flooded tube copy. Hopefully it will make it easier for us yanks trying to copy this fantastic system. All I can say is it works like gangbusters. By the way, doesnt Big Bear have about 350 days of sunshine a year??? I'm sooooo friggin jealous!!


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## That 5hit (Mar 8, 2010)

https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/310048-tripps-hillbilly-flooded-tube-copy.html

this is the link to his grow


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## IAm5toned (Mar 8, 2010)

subbed.
ive had the concept in my head for at least 8 months now, i just dont have the space; im thinking of applying the flooded tube concept myself, but on a smaller scale. but glad to see someone else took the plunge, ill be along for the ride!


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## strassman (Mar 27, 2010)

_Heath: Could you please talk a little about your ebb/flood you have your clones in? _


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## expyraponicuser (Mar 27, 2010)

strassman said:


> _Heath: Could you please talk a little about your ebb/flood you have your clones in? _


 Thats the only info missing from this grow. I have looked at other examples of ebb and flo but since Im going to follow Heaths grow to the letter I would like details on his system. Also , I'm going to be taking clones but I would like to see his germination method.


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## hydroboy27 (Apr 2, 2010)

anyone know where heath gets his critical mass strain from?


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## iloveit (Apr 2, 2010)

hydroboy27 said:


> anyone know where heath gets his critical mass strain from?


Mr Nice seeds.


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## savageinit (Apr 14, 2010)

Hi heath, Your work is great keep it up dude. I am thinking of doing hydro next been doing soil for a while now with good results but since seeing your grows me wants more. I seen your green giants x ak47 in the aeroflo system WOW. I want to grow the same strain just wondering what system would be best I'm thinking aeroflo might be abit advanced for first time also what ec and best ph would i get same growth rate with another system? would this strain grow as good in your vertical grow and is that aeroflo system d.i.y cheers heath


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## Mr.Karma (Apr 21, 2010)

quick question about the dams. If they are meant to keep the tubes flooded up to the bottom of the netpots why do they have to be adjustable. cant they just be fixed in place cut to the height of the bottom of the netpots? I know in my head it makes sense lol.

the only issue i see is if the roots aren;t popping out the bottom of the netpots... maybe thats the reason heath used them. If i were to make sure roots were coming out of the bottom of the netpots i see no reason why the same can't be glued in place and not be adjustable.


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## jigfresh (Apr 21, 2010)

I copied Heath's setup (in a much smaller version) and glued my dams in place. This was a mistake for two reasons. 1. The tubes started overflowing becuase the roots got really big, and combined with the dams the water was coming out the holes for the net pots.

2. When I drain the system completely to change water... if your dams cannot be adjusted 'away' the water in the tubes can't drain, know what I mean. I'm not heath... but that's what I found in my system. I would totally either recommend adjustable dams or no dams at all with the plants already having roots big enough to reach the water.

Good luck


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## Mr.Karma (Apr 21, 2010)

thanks for the quick reply. given your experience with this setup what would happen if you only build the dams to bring the water up slightly? not to rear the bottom of the netpots but to reach say the middle of the distance between the bottom of the netpot and the bottom of the flood tubes. do you think it will still spill out the holes when the roots grow out?


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## Dillinger (Apr 21, 2010)

Hey Jigfresh,

What size pipe are you using. It seems that the 4 inch pipe may only support very short veg times. I wonder if 6 inch would be ideal for roots and if it would be worth the extra cost and running weight (it will be loaded with much more water). I'm still deciding which way to go, 4, 5 or 6. Anyone, please feel free to offer your opinions.


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## Mr.Karma (Apr 22, 2010)

how many grams avg from each plant? i know i read it here a few weeks ago but i dont want to reread everything. i swear i have rear this thread atleat 3 time haha


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## hay (Apr 22, 2010)

please fix pictures in this thread
page 1..etc pix dont represent actual descriptions or what it used to be


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## Dillinger (Apr 22, 2010)

Whoops! Looks like a database issue!


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## hay (Apr 22, 2010)

Damn it
this error made me go the the and of the thread and now i'm stuck in here..
hmmm..."I:M back from the future coming from page 36"
but dont have energy to come back


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## Mr.Karma (Apr 22, 2010)

anyone have any more insight on a fixed dam position. I was told by a member on another site who built the system out of 4" pvc sdr35 pipe with fixed dams. He told me he fixed the dams in place at the height that the water flow stays right under the netpots. He said that everything was going great untill the roots got very long. the longer roots caused a backup at the dams and water leaked out of the netpots.

so you guys think if you made the dams only 1" tall this would solve the problems for these guys running cheap pvc pipe setup with fixed dams. 

i'm gonna build one in june so we shall find a solution.

anyone remember how much each plant weight was dry on average. i know i remember reading it some place in this tread. i tried the search fuction but its kinda lame.


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## hay (Apr 26, 2010)

the roots issue makes me wonder
i will be experimenting with 3" PV.C, 
would spacing of the plants help?
how big are roots of an individual 18" lo.wrider?
in aerogarden water dont touch nets at all


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## Black Thumb (May 13, 2010)

Anyone know what height he hung the bulb ?


I Wanted to build this with wood and use coco kinda like heaths vertical grow racks.

Heath if you ever read this can you tell me if you would have built your vertical racks now with 7 sides 
around 1 600 watt lamp given the results of this grow.


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## cagey (May 27, 2010)

MCD said:


> Hi heath been reading through your critical mass and this vert grow for the last day, you really have everything dialed in to get the maximum. Inspiration man!
> 
> Im new to growing but been researching loads so im sorry if the questions sound daft
> 
> ...


 There are answers to all your questions if you would read the whole thread & take in what he explains


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## legalizeitcanada (Jun 14, 2010)

Dude this is an awesome feed......and that is a sick grow setup..++Rep!


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## CabinetBuds (Jun 14, 2010)

I would have to agree with Legalizeitcanada!!


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## dasmo (Jun 27, 2010)

has anybody attempted a setup like this in a closet?


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## quickrip (Jun 27, 2010)

dasmo said:


> has anybody attempted a setup like this in a closet?


https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/306850-jigfreshs-grow-3-flooded-tube.html
Check out this grow its awsome! https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/306850-jigfreshs-grow-3-flooded-tube.html


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## dasmo (Jun 29, 2010)

doh. i'm a fewl. thanx. now could regular pvc pipe be used instead of sdr-35 pipe with those SDR-35 polypropylene, push-fit, self-sealing with gaskets fittings? or would that not work?


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## Dillinger (Jun 29, 2010)

Depends on your definition of "work". The gasketed fittings provide an obvious advantage. Would it be optimal? No. Would I do it? No.


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## quickrip (Jul 1, 2010)

dasmo said:


> doh. i'm a fewl. thanx. now could regular pvc pipe be used instead of sdr-35 pipe with those SDR-35 polypropylene, push-fit, self-sealing with gaskets fittings? or would that not work?


Im no pro but I do know that pvc can be very effective if the right glue is used. There shouldnt be any problems with leaks. Your not even putting any pressure through it. Take your time and be very meticulous when putting everything together. Check for leaks when your done. No problems. Might not be the absolute best you can put together but if used well im sure you could grow awsome plants in pvc tubes. Great for someone with a smaller budget also. Just my 2 cents. Might only be worth 1.


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## ColaFarmer (Jul 1, 2010)

How many plants does that beautiful device hold?


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## vmaxer (Aug 7, 2010)

I'm a big Fan of Heath's grows, they are awesome. I've used surround the bulb technique 3ft plants works well.
I'm a little confused about the partially drain and change nuts aspects.
maybe someone else or Heath can help me w/ this, not a hydro nut yet, a dirt farmer.
1.
In one post he mentiones that the only res he has is the one w/ the bypass, and in another he refers to the main supply.
Just wondering during the normal operation does the res get topped w/ water from a larger main that is full of water/nuts not in the loop? 
Or the main supply is the water in the system.

2.
partially drain: my assumption is stop the feed into the system and drain the res and fill up once a week. 
Then there is the statement of changing nutes every two weeks.

Just curious, just like to learn things, any help is appreciated.


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## Thallamus (Aug 18, 2010)

I run something very similar to heaths surround set-up. I run a bypass to control the level and agitation of the water. the bypass diverts water directly back to the rez, so basically the water avoids running through the flood tube.
I have run a partially drain and a complete drain with rez changes. I notice a better yield doing a full rez change. But I must say that my skill level is probably not as robust as heath's and maybe that is why he is able to do a partial change.

600hps
5x5 tent
4 tier ,horseshoe design
60RH
70h2o temp
EC- 1200-1500
45 day cycle
13-15oz per cycle. I'm always working for more

-T


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## Magnificient (Aug 19, 2010)

I rarely use the word, but the first word that came to mind was awesome.


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## vmaxer (Aug 19, 2010)

Thanks! so you have a drain res and and a main?

Vmaxer...


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## Wrams (Aug 20, 2010)

What an amzing D.I.Y person you are. Wanna come round mine and build me something simular..? Lol Thanks for inspiring me making my own grow rooms/styes.


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## vmaxer (Aug 28, 2010)

After a quick calculation, I figured it out... Thanks!


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## laughingduck (Sep 1, 2010)

macster said:


> does anyone know, in order to make an inside measurement of 48" how big you cut each side of the octagon.Because I'm going with a1000 watt bulb I want an inside measurement of 54 ".
> I figure 2 pie r is the formula or 2x3.14x27=170 inch divided by 8 (# of sides) = 21.25 inches
> Does this make sense. Chime in anyone in the know


The center to center of the 45s end up 21 inches, the cut length needs to be 19 inches. Anyhow thats how i did it.


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## volcanoOFhistory (Sep 7, 2010)

merahoon said:


> Has anyone been able to find 4'' pipe in the US. I have been trying to find some and its damn near impossible. I'm thinking about just walking into home depot and asking if they carry it. Their site doesn't say that they have it but you never know.


Go to home depot and ask where the pvc pipe is


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## burnzalot (Sep 16, 2010)

Heath you are a real innovator! It is amazing how man people have benefitted from your knowledge. Thank you, your shit is unreal. Do you ever use a higher EC than 1.4? Is that because of the strains you grow? Or would you always feed at your posted strengths?


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## burnzalot (Sep 16, 2010)

That question and topic goes to everyone by the way


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## UrbanAerO (Sep 17, 2010)

Is he even answering these threads? I borrowed an idea from him and applied it to my aero ponic boxes, really seems to help as I keep my sealed/airconditioned rootzone less than 68*F and can run the rest of the room at 80*F. great insulation!


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## dr green dre (Sep 21, 2010)

UrbanAerO said:


> Is he even answering these threads? I borrowed an idea from him and applied it to my aero ponic boxes, really seems to help as I keep my sealed/airconditioned rootzone less than 68*F and can run the rest of the room at 80*F. great insulation!


Looking good aero... Dont think heaths around anymore!! hes got some serious grows bro man i can only hope for half of what he gets per light/plant Might give vert a look at next time round..


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## GangstaChronic (Oct 29, 2010)

is this unit enclosed from all sides?

if so, how does he get inside to check up on the plantts and stuff????


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## WWShadow (Oct 31, 2010)

GangstaChronic said:


> is this unit enclosed from all sides?
> 
> if so, how does he get inside to check up on the plantts and stuff????


if you look at the pics at the beginning it shows the down angle, that is where he crosses over.
Heath has several different systems designed and they seem to be on different forums. might be able to find them via google "Heath Robinson"


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## Bob Smith (Nov 5, 2010)

Jesus there's a shitload of lazy fucks on this thread.

Anyways, for those of you who wanted to copy Heath's design but aren't too confident in your carpentry skills (like me), you could build one of these, which is very similar in concept but has some obvious differences.

For someone as "unhandy" as me, it was pretty simple to construct - just buy a saw to cut a shitload of PVC, buy some wyes, and glue them together.

I used 4" PVC, but the original design used 3" and that can be made for ~$500 (mine was significantly more expensive because the price for fittings rises exponentially when you move up in diameter).

View attachment 1252333

EDIT: BTW, whatever PVC method you choose to use, I'd HIGHLY recommend using 22.5s instead of 45s for a much more rounded structure - instead of being an octagon with one side missing (7 sided, obviously), I was able to make mine 15 sided (16-1 = a pentadecagon) and only lose 6% of my plants for access, as opposed to losing 12.5% if I was using 45s.

More sides also means more even distribution of light to the plants............just my little contribution to the thread.


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## WWShadow (Nov 5, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Jesus there's a shitload of lazy fucks on this thread.
> 
> Anyways, for those of you who wanted to copy Heath's design but aren't too confident in your carpentry skills (like me), you could build one of these, which is very similar in concept but has some obvious differences.
> 
> ...


Unhandy? Actually I would say you are pretty handy. I was wondering how you did the angles on that! 22.5's I don't recall seeing them but I will definitely look for them now! they might work better than using 45's for heath's design! Ithough about using pvc for the frame support rather than wood, I just don't know if it would be strong enough. Lol doesn't matter either way right now, I just don't have a need for that number of plants. One day though...


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## Bob Smith (Nov 5, 2010)

Here ya go, bro - put the following into the Home Depot search:

NIBCO 4 in. PVC 22-1/2-Degree Elbow

And the 22.5s will definitely make a more rounded structure, which is clearly a "better" structure - it's simply a question of the extra angles/carpentry involved to construct the support system.

Honestly, I'd just make the support system out of PVC, personally - methinks 2" PVC would be plenty strong enough if it was properly engineered to distribute the weight.

And honestly, I'm really not handy - all I did was cut some (a lot) of PVC and glue it together - a third grader could've done it.


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## InvestInMe (Nov 7, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Jesus there's a shitload of lazy fucks on this thread.
> 
> Anyways, for those of you who wanted to copy Heath's design but aren't too confident in your carpentry skills (like me), you could build one of these, which is very similar in concept but has some obvious differences.
> 
> ...


how it water itself?


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## Bob Smith (Nov 7, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLsQGDcTevs


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## slipperyP (Nov 11, 2010)

Thats brilliant...nice work. I would think you would need the same size return pump as feed pump?


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## Bob Smith (Nov 11, 2010)

I've since upgraded the return pump to the same 1/6HP pump as the feed pump is.


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## WWShadow (Nov 11, 2010)

I was wondering if a 1/6th hp pump would work well. any idea what psi the output is?


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## Bob Smith (Nov 11, 2010)

It's a Utilitech 1/6HP pump from Lowes - looked for PSI and couldn't find it, but those motherfuckers move some water for sure - they each gobble up 600 watts (5 [email protected]).

Probably somewhat of overkill, and I'm certainly not happy about having to dedicate an entire 15 amp circuit to three pumps (those two and my EZ 120 pump all run off the same timer) - would love to be able to run a couple of 1000GPH+ pond pumps (only use 100 watts each, if that) but I'm hesitant to go spend $200 on two pumps that that may or may not work.


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## i8urbabi (Nov 13, 2010)

i can honestly say that, heath, this is the most amazing grow-op ive ever seen. so clean and simple.


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## tanon (Nov 24, 2010)

Heath, I know you have been bombarded with questions but I love your system and would like to try your design with 6" pipe instead, is there any reason you chose 4" besides it being less than half the cost? I wanna use the 6" so I can use it once like you and document the grow then pull the dams and modify it with 80 psi misters and run an identical grow to put an end to the guessing about how to and how much better verses how much more of a pain in the ass aero is and will be using your design . I don't think good result will be had with 4" using aeroponics because of the root density I could see in your pics and believe the 6" would be better for this application any thoughts? Just trying to step it up for the dreamers who can't justify doubling the build cost by using 6" with no garantee it will have any effect on final yield.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 25, 2010)

6" would be a useless modification if you're mirroring his dimensions/plant counts - the rootmass was not impeded in the least by the 4" tubing.

If you were growing less and larger plants, than 6" may be worth considering.


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## zem (Dec 7, 2010)

awesome setup! i was just looking it seems it yielded 46oz??? is that like 2g+/watt??? wtf!!!!


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## cameron666 (Jan 17, 2011)

i must tell you Congratulations on everything to do with this, ive always admired this grow from the first time i seen it, Well Done


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## Wrams (Jan 18, 2011)

Heath isn't arround he's busy building and growing massive trees right now so give it a month or two and he'll be back with a monster I can assure you.


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## MediMary (Jan 18, 2011)

Bob Smith said:


> 6" would be a useless modification if you're mirroring his dimensions/plant counts - the rootmass was not impeded in the least by the 4" tubing.
> 
> If you were growing less and larger plants, than 6" may be worth considering.


 hey bob. do you also go by bobby smith? = )


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## Bob Smith (Jan 18, 2011)

MediMary said:


> hey bob. do you also go by bobby smith? = )


Lol, I might...........changing up my system now - going with a 3" PVC base which will reduce my diameter from 7' to 5'.

Also changing over to an HP aero drain to waste system instead of the recirculating LP aero/NFT system I had in place before.

Gonna be running from 115-140PSI for a super fine mist (using a 4.4 gallon accumulator tank) - 30 GPH misters, two per column.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 19, 2011)

Subed, I am on like page 12 and this journal is amazing. I can not wait to see where this ends I am not going to skip ahead and cheat im going page by page.


Heath are u a mad scientist, do u wear a white lab coat all day or just on the weekends?


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## scottyshakes (Jan 24, 2011)

Bob Smith said:


> Jesus there's a shitload of lazy fucks on this thread.
> 
> Anyways, for those of you who wanted to copy Heath's design but aren't too confident in your carpentry skills (like me), you could build one of these, which is very similar in concept but has some obvious differences.
> 
> ...


did you ever get this puppy up and running if so how bout a pic or at least a count? i like the look of this


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## zamzia (Feb 15, 2011)

Wow, that took a long time to read!

I take my hat off to Heath and everyone else that has the ability to make these amazing systems. I wouldn't know where to get half the stuff from in the first place for the irrigation of the system. Amazing. Very well done. Wish he lived near me!


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## tanon (Feb 16, 2011)

laughingduck said:


> The center to center of the 45s end up 21 inches, the cut length needs to be 19 inches. Anyhow thats how i did it.


I made my system bigger cuz I'm using a 1000 watt light myself I made my "room" "frame" 63 inches square and if you cut your pipe 22 1/8 inches long it should fit perfectly in a frame that size (the 1/8 inch is a good idea cuz you might lose some beveiling the edge of the pipe to fit into the fittings which SUCK to put together!!! and the little extra makes for a really perfect fit. the final inner diameter at this length is 54 inches which is 4 ft 6 inches so plants are a full 2 ft away from my cool tube! Hope this helps!


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## tanon (Feb 16, 2011)

yeah in the good old usa the fittings are called double gasketed pipe fittings and you just use normal 4 inch sewer pipe (I spent weeks trying to figure that one out and almost ordered pipe from the uk till I found it at a pipe supply co.)


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## disposition84 (Feb 28, 2011)

Heaths work definitely needs to be stickied.


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## vmaxer (Mar 4, 2011)

I learned a lot from Heath, awesome work! I'm stepping out of this hobby. 
I have got all the pvc sealed pipe connections/pump/netpots for this, anyone in sf area is interested in them, pm me.
Sorry to spam this thread, it is taken that way I can remove the post. Cheers!


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## dafoo (Mar 9, 2011)

Demosthenese said:


> pics of my mini cascade vertical hydro.


That looks pretty bad ass... +rep


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## scottyshakes (Mar 20, 2011)

anybody know if bob smith ever posted results of that tree looking 45 degrees y connection contraption?


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## jigfresh (Mar 20, 2011)

scottyshakes said:


> anybody know if bob smith ever posted results of that tree looking 45 degrees y connection contraption?


Here's a link to a thread on vertical growing. Bob S has a few pics in there of the thing he put together. A lot of us based our setup off Heaths. Thank you sir.

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/263751-vertical-growing-42.html


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## Bob Smith (Mar 21, 2011)

scottyshakes said:


> anybody know if bob smith ever posted results of that tree looking 45 degrees y connection contraption?


Still using it, bro.

Been taking my time with it as it's a prototype; gonna flip the switch in a couple of days after I put a screen in there (really been dragging my feet on this).

I'll throw up a pic or two sometime in the next couple of days.

EDIT: and to Jig's point, I'm not sure if I like my setup better or the setup he runs (obviously mine would have to be bigger) - the introduction of HP aero feed into this has really screwed up my learning curve, but I'm confident I'll get it sorted 

Might build some custom walls out of PVC for the next version, time will tell.


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## BLOCKER (May 3, 2011)

BLOCKER - 05-03-2011 10:40 AM -
thanks for the quick reply, 

Heath if i wanted the 4ft diameter and was using this octagon tool http://www.pagetutor.com/octagon_layout/index.html , I wouldn't make A: 4ft would I?, I need to allow for the 4" pipe??. sorry if thats a stupid question.. I just don't want waste loads of pipe guessing the sizes hahaha.. which i can imagine I will.

Also I wouldn't mind seeing one made with this LED http://www.hydrogrowled.com/504W-Pen...Light-P62.aspx for a true comparison of LED - HPS ... alot of doubts about led, I'd love to see the difference.. I may try the test myself when im up and running, although the LED would be 10x the cost of a 600w ballast/bulb to purchase..

thanks heath ​Heath Robinson - 05-03-2011 10:56 AM - permalinkReport
Hi Blocker, its not a stupid question,

Yes you need to allow for the 4" pipe, 

I too would like to do a vertical with a led, but at the moment they are way too expensive, I am not sure at the moment how good the led's but I suspect they are no where near as good as a hps light at the moment. 

I would save your money until you see a really good grow using led's by a respected member of one of the grow forums, as manufacturers and vendors tend to exaggerate what their products will do. 

good luck

Heath 
..................... ​Yes I agree about the LED, your verticle dome seems to be the most effiecent and cheapest way of maximising a 600w bulb that i've ever seen.. I was going to go with fatman's medium pressure setup ((((https://www.rollitup.org/aerogardeners/419038-medium-pressure-large-tube-aero.html)))).. but the savings and simplicity I would make with your vert is outstanding.. I'd love to get the 2gpw you got and don't see why its not achievable..

I thought about making a giant octagon with a 4ft in diameter octagon inside it with another 4 levels of racks for the outside of the 4ft octagon using 5x 600w lights (1 in the center as yours, then the other 4 placed evenly to get the giant octagon and the outside of the 4ft but i'd just be making it more complicated than needed..

my ideas are wild lol

I'll settle for 4x (4' in diameter) domes like yours which would already save me 1.6kw ph from 12hrs of 24hrs from my original plan..(medium pressure)..

If the LED did work just imagine how it would look hahaaha outa this world...

Well thanks for making life easier and cheaper... No hoods lol no timers for pumps etc


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## BLOCKER (May 3, 2011)

Heath do you think just using 2"neopone collars in net pots instead of the clay pebbles would work?


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## IAm5toned (May 3, 2011)

BLOCKER said:


> Heath do you think just using 2"neopone collars in net pots instead of the clay pebbles would work?


my names not heath, but in my exp, where the plants grow outwards away from the pipe and towards the light... they get heavy in late flower and like to tip.... the hydroton gives the roots a little something to hold against, you know?


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## Danielsgb (May 3, 2011)

IAm5toned said:


> my names not heath, but in my exp, where the plants grow outwards away from the pipe and towards the light... they get heavy in late flower and like to tip.... the hydroton gives the roots a little something to hold against, you know?


When we gonna see yours IAm5toned?
Daniels


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## WWShadow (May 4, 2011)

BLOCKER said:


> Heath do you think just using 2"neopone collars in net pots instead of the clay pebbles would work?


You would definitely want to have a way to tie them up so they don't tip over and fall out. I'm not sue how well the 2in collars would fit with the round pipe but I know the three inch won't work with out the net cup at least and you still have to tie the plants up. Using the Hydroton in that typs of system is only going to help as it is a "fast water" circulation system


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## WWShadow (May 4, 2011)

Heath, out of all the system's you built which one would you say is the most efficient? also if it isn't this one couldypu post a link to it please!


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## Wrams (May 4, 2011)

WWShadow said:


> Heath, out of all the system's you built which one would you say is the most efficient? also if it isn't this one couldypu post a link to it please!


If you google 'Heath Robinson Tree Grow' or 'Heath Robinson Grows' you'll see alot of his work  

Hope this helps


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## WWShadow (May 4, 2011)

tanon said:


> yeah in the good old usa the fittings are called double gasketed pipe fittings and you just use normal 4 inch sewer pipe (I spent weeks trying to figure that one out and almost ordered pipe from the uk till I found it at a pipe supply co.)


somewhere in this book of Heath's is a link I posted to order the gasketed collars theyare like $15.00 ea. or were at the time I posted the link. You don't have to use the soil pipe it is compatible with PVC you will want to consider "beveling" the PVC ends before inserting and perhaps use some silicone grease and a rubber mallet. Thsi meaning you would have to connect both sections of pipe to the collar before strapping it down, but with the grease and the rubber mallet it should be much easier.

Peace!!
I'll look it up and repost it, it's wroth having on here again!!


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## WWShadow (May 4, 2011)

Here's the link to the the gasketed collars https://keithspecialty.com/dwv.gasketed_sewer_main.htm 
Price is up a bit but that is to be expected!


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## tenthirty (May 4, 2011)

Keith specialty is the place. About $500 for all of the fittings (big box full) and about $80 for the SDR 35 sourced locally. Putting the pipe in the fitting is a real bitch. Order the lub at the bottom of Keith's page with the fittings.
The pipe has to be beveled to about an inch back at most. There is such a thing as a pipe beveler, but I found that a large disk sander is better to do the bevels. To cut the pipe I used a cutoff type bandsaw that folds down to cut. This can be had at harbor freight.

I've got 2 grows in this thing and had problems with bacteria on the first grow, Thank you Heizenberg!! for the fix, and on the present grow I have severe mag and P problems, I think. I'm going to have to put up my next grow here, just to plead for some help.


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## WWShadow (May 5, 2011)

tenthirty said:


> Keith specialty is the place. About $500 for all of the fittings (big box full) and about $80 for the SDR 35 sourced locally. Putting the pipe in the fitting is a real bitch. Order the lub at the bottom of Keith's page with the fittings.
> The pipe has to be beveled to about an inch back at most. There is such a thing as a pipe beveler, but I found that a large disk sander is better to do the bevels. To cut the pipe I used a cutoff type bandsaw that folds down to cut. This can be had at harbor freight.
> 
> I've got 2 grows in this thing and had problems with bacteria on the first grow, Thank you Heizenberg!! for the fix, and on the present grow I have severe mag and P problems, I think. I'm going to have to put up my next grow here, just to plead for some help.


How hot were you running your nutes? somewhere in the beginning Heath states that he never get over (I think) an EC of 1.5! I dont know that he ever stated what his nutrients were.


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## Wrams (May 5, 2011)

WWShadow said:


> How hot were you running your nutes? somewhere in the beginning Heath states that he never get over (I think) an EC of 1.5! I dont know that he ever stated what his nutrients were.


I've seen threads by Heath where he says EC 1.2 is what he trys to stick with. Less flushing at the end to


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## WWShadow (May 5, 2011)

Wrams said:


> I've seen threads by Heath where he says EC 1.2 is what he trys to stick with. Less flushing at the end to


yeah, that was it! I knew it wasn't real high and he got massive results! so why mess with all the complicated stuff when NFT can get those kind of results...


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## Wrams (May 5, 2011)

Why does Heath mess with all the complicated stuff...? I'll tell you why.... He loves designing and building new ways to see whats best for growing his much loved cannabis  its a hobby and thats everything and you can see that in his threads/diaries etc. I wish I knew half of what he knows because with half his knowledge you'd be a true master. Heath is the best grower I've ever come across and I've come across a few in my 40+ years on this planet


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## tenthirty (May 5, 2011)

WWShadow said:


> How hot were you running your nutes? somewhere in the beginning Heath states that he never get over (I think) an EC of 1.5! I don't know that he ever stated what his nutrients were.


That,s the funny part. I never got above 1.6 EC on the first run. On the second run at 1.0 EC. PH dropping and EC rising. Right now I'm running at .7 EC and before top off EC is at .8 and after topping off the rez is about .68EC. Before the flush PH was dropping from 6.0 to 5.4 in one day. Last night I left everything alone at a PH of 5.2 and and EC of .7. We'll see where everything is later tonight at lights on.

I have a hypothesis,

I go from rapid rooters > ebb and flow > octagon.

In the ebb and flow table EC was about 1.0.
What I'm thinking is that when the sweet little babies go into the octagon, 1.0 was way to hot, thus burning the roots. First time "here comes root rot and bacteria". EWC tea to the rescue, but a little too late. At this point I hadn't even thought that the starting EC was too high. Nor did I know about adding enough cal mag.

On run 2, in the octagon the babies started out at an EC of 1.0 and never let it get above that, but still not enough cal mag, maybe 10 mil in 30 gal. Added 10 mil of big bud at res change, still keeping EC at 1.0 and the leaves just started burning away like a mag or maybe a P deficiency. This is at 5 weeks. Then they stopped eating both water and nutes. Did a complete flush for 5 days until the .2 EC started to drop. Now they are at 3 mil/gal cal mag (.2EC) and then to .7EC is Canna aqua bloom with no additives.

They appear not to be getting any worse, but not really better either. They are at week 6 now and it may be just to late. At least it will make some bubble.

So when the next run goes into the octagon, the starting recipe will be:

RO
.4 EC cal mag
remainder to .6 EC Ionic Bloom.
Protek silica for PH up as needed.

What do you think?

I've already screwed up 2 runs in this thing and my ebb and flow flower tables are working great with GH 3 part at 1.2-1.4 EC.


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## WWShadow (May 6, 2011)

Between 5.5 and 5.8 is supposed to be optimum for Hydro. Your ph should be pretty stable if your rez is large enough. 5.2 is close but I wouldn't want mine to be that low. Once I get under 6 is pretty much let it sit because I have 2 cheap ass ph meters. I can calibraate them both with the solution and them in the rez they measur one a bit hi and the other a bit low. so if the low one is 5.4 and the hi one is 5.8 I call it good. You're gong to need some one with more hydro experience than I have. there used to be some really knowledgable hydro guys on the thread but I haven't kept up with who is still around. You should try the sick plant section and post it there maybe some one can help nail down the problem!


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## Wrams (May 6, 2011)

pH 5.5 is to low for me I like to keep my pH at around a pH of 6.0 in hydroponics and an EC of 1.4 max. Thats me though  

Something else to consider when having pH problems is the clay if your using that because large amount of clay can cause Ph instabilities in any grow.


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## tenthirty (May 7, 2011)

I found this over at IC mag.
Is the ph of 5.5 to 6.0 or 5.1 to 5.9 the correct answer Hmmmmm..

I wonder what kind of ph and ec swings Heath sees.




> **Added by: MisterIto**Last edited by: 10k**Viewed: 588 times
> **Rated by 43 users: 8.77/10
> I follow and highly recommend the following parameters for hydroponic nutrient solutions for aeroponic, &#8220;bubblers&#8221;, drip, ebb and flow, NFT, passive, rockwool and wick systems.
> 
> ...


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## uhavealighter? (May 10, 2011)

Some company is coming out with these vertical growing trays to make is super easy to grow vertically and i thought people who read this forum would be interested in these trays.
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/430475-vertigrow-360-vertical-hydroponics.html


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## BLOCKER (May 11, 2011)

WWShadow said:


> You would definitely want to have a way to tie them up so they don't tip over and fall out. I'm not sue how well the 2in collars would fit with the round pipe but I know the three inch won't work with out the net cup at least and you still have to tie the plants up. Using the Hydroton in that typs of system is only going to help as it is a "fast water" circulation system


the collars wud still be in 2" net pots, u still don't think they will be strong enough to hold the plants?


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## slink456 (May 13, 2011)

hey man love your set up , i really wanna try this set up but i just don't get a few things. How do the dams work exactly? I get that they flood the tubes to your desired level , but how does it drain if the dams are blocking a specific amount of nutrient flow?


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## slink456 (May 13, 2011)

hey man love your set up , i really wanna try this set up but i just don't get a few things. How do the dams work exactly? I get that they flood the tubes to your desired level , but how does it drain if the dams are blocking a specific amount of nutrient flow?


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## nanobud (Jun 4, 2011)

slink456 said:


> hey man love your set up , i really wanna try this set up but i just don't get a few things. How do the dams work exactly? I get that they flood the tubes to your desired level , but how does it drain if the dams are blocking a specific amount of nutrient flow?


Once the water reaches the dam levels, since the pump is constantly running, additional water keeps coming which overflows the dams down to the next level. The sloped pipes ensures the water overflows in the right direction.


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## cannawizard (Jun 4, 2011)

Heath Robinson is a weed god.. haha


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## littlepapa47 (Jul 4, 2011)

Heath what is the link for the pipe clamps you are using? Solid items. LP47


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## Grow4Flow (Jul 5, 2011)

Ive read through this whole thing and I am flabbergasted, I would like to get started on the build but can someone tell me what the length of each straigh pipe is? I don't remember seeing this measurement. According to the Octagon calculator that was posted, to have the inner area (R) to be 4' means the outside ends up being 7.5' and im trying to build something to fit in a 5x5 tent.


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## jigfresh (Jul 5, 2011)

I don't think it matters what his measurements were if you are doing something different. It's time to start drawing some careful plans. I hope you took drafting in high school.  Let me know if you need help with the drawings, I could probably be of some use.

And yeah, Heath's set up kicks ass. My mini mini version treated me really well.


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## Grow4Flow (Jul 6, 2011)

jigfresh said:


> I don't think it matters what his measurements were if you are doing something different. It's time to start drawing some careful plans. I hope you took drafting in high school.  Let me know if you need help with the drawings, I could probably be of some use.
> 
> And yeah, Heath's set up kicks ass. My mini mini version treated me really well.


Thanks for your response and offer Jig, but I fiugred it out. I just wanted to know what his measurements were since he did give the other needed measurements to scale it down. thanks again.


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## Grow4Flow (Jul 9, 2011)

im just about done constructing this system out of 3' PVC pipe, does anyone know where to get the pipe clips in the states?


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## zamzia (Jul 11, 2011)

Grow4Flow said:


> im just about done constructing this system out of 3' PVC pipe, does anyone know where to get the pipe clips in the states?


Don't forget to post up a link of your grow. Would be good to see some of that


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## uhavealighter? (Jul 12, 2011)

www.vertigrowsystems.com sells flood trays for vertical growing you can stack as many as you want. makes building vertical growing systems so much easier


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## Grow4Flow (Jul 12, 2011)

ive seen those but Im not gonna pay that price when I built mine for half their prices. besides, it's so much better to grow in something you built yourself.


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## uhavealighter? (Jul 13, 2011)

very true. you can still build your system around these trays. They are a lot easier to deal with, store, and clean....


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## Grow4Flow (Jul 13, 2011)

I took a close look at those systems and watched some videos. They show you how to put it together but they dont show you how to take it apart. from what i can see, it looks like if you wanted to do a perpetual harvest in one complete system, you would have to start with the bottom tray, well, when thats done, how are you gonna take that bottom tray out for cleaning? you would need to remove all the trays above it to get to the bottom or leave it there until everything is done. these things dont just slide in on each level, they slide down from the top. Don't get me wrong, the trays are awesome, but, 1) they are only 27 inches inner diameter and, 2) the rack system looks like a bad design for removal, there is no way to leave an open front as to slide in a cookie sheet on a bakers rack.


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## travimon (Jul 24, 2011)

Heath Robinson said:


> Sorry missed your last question, the bypass is very simple on the output from the pump there is a "T" one side goes to feed the vertical and the other side of the "T" returns to the res and has a valve fitted. When I open the valve some of the output from the pump circulates into the res this helps control the flow into the vertical and also helps with oxygenation.
> 
> 
> Heath


Hey heath! I just stumbled across you because I came up with a hydro system like your mass gro I think, I did come up wit it on my own,its similar to yours but I searched everywhere hoping I was the only one, its a little different than yours, I was wondering what your logistics were on the system, so I can compare and see if I did come up with something? great minds think alike! Hit me back so I can explain what I did( 5in. Clones turned into 4ft monsters in 37days)


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## hightide00 (Jul 26, 2011)

Heath what's the best way to change change res without killing the plants. I'm losing a few after water changes with a similar setup


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## dbgrow (Aug 15, 2011)

In case you haven't noticed if you are perusing this thread, Heath probably is done with this journal. It is a couple years old. This is actually my first post, but I have long been following some of these journals for ideas. I just don't like posting things at such forums so much. Anyways just because I wanted to help out people, and hopefully Heath doesn't mind, I compiled a PDF grow journal containing all of the pertinent information from this thread mostly.

Click here to access the journal in a PDF format without all of the filler in-between:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0BzQ0JKbbMVY1Mzg0YmMzOWQtZjJmNC00MDk2LTgyYTYtOGM1N2JlODlhYzU0&hl=en_US


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## GeneticArcheology (Aug 15, 2011)

wow dbgrow great job!

i'll be saving this for sure!


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## Grow4Flow (Aug 21, 2011)

dbgrow said:


> In case you haven't noticed if you are perusing this thread, Heath probably is done with this journal. It is a couple years old. This is actually my first post, but I have long been following some of these journals for ideas. I just don't like posting things at such forums so much. Anyways just because I wanted to help out people, and hopefully Heath doesn't mind, I compiled a PDF grow journal containing all of the pertinent information from this thread mostly.
> 
> Click here to access the journal in a PDF format without all of the filler in-between:
> 
> https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0BzQ0JKbbMVY1Mzg0YmMzOWQtZjJmNC00MDk2LTgyYTYtOGM1N2JlODlhYzU0&hl=en_US


 
cool man, this should help the lazy readers out. I think most of us know how old this thread is, but we keep it open in case others come along wanting to be in the know. Whether the original poster is still around or not, the help is still here for those who want it. 

Some of the best threads go for years and are still going, check out the "Harvest a pound every three weeks" thread. That went 4 years and its still going, and stink himself still visits it.


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## Master Sativa (Aug 31, 2011)

I may have overlooked it, but I didn't see how you are adding oxygen into the nutrient solution . I personally love air diffusers http://cch2o.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=52_70 however, they are expensive and they may not fit in your system. I would just get a couple 6x air pumps and mount them on the wall. Cut air hoses at lengths long enough to stretch from the pump through the hole and underneath each plant attach air diffuser or bubble stone/air hose. 
Beautiful system though. Love to hear how she yields.


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## cfh1985 (Sep 24, 2011)

he runs the water fast enough so that air diffusers aren't needed.

Heath, how do you think your yield would of differed if you'd used less plants?
I want to do a system that will be pretty much the same, the only differences being -
1 plant per side per level (8 sides, 4 levels)
large gauge (I think this is the right term for the size of the holes  ) scrog
topped plants (atleast twice per plant)

I was also thinking about 6inch soil pipe with the net pot inserted at somewhere between 45degrees and 90degrees from the vertical. Providing the pot is still in the nutrient solution I don't see that having an effect though.
I was also wondering what you use to line your room? I know you said that it's heat reflector that gets used behind radiators but, I've never seen it before... I live in the uk and used to work as a builder.

Thanks a lot for any help.

edit: also how would you rate the sunpulse bulbs?


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## Paradoc5 (Oct 26, 2011)

Hi, Heath!~
There are no words other than, you, sir are a Gentleman-maDman!-or genius. They're so close. I must know; what was your cost for all materials, including the lumber, screws, at the time you built this-completely? I also want to THANK you for opening my mind to hydroponic alternatives I would, otherwise, not though of. The Youtube® videos are breathtaking-no, really. Words do it no justice.,
Please, please-keep up the amazing work. I envy your vocation, or avocation as the case may be. Need a helper?


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## Tuhder (Nov 5, 2011)

Heath started this thread in 1/09 I read to page 82 which was 4/10. Heath said what he was shooting for getting, But I believe he never actually posted the final numbers of that grow. Im really curious as to what the final yield was, It's the only piece of information im missing.


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## pilip (Nov 6, 2011)

Tuhder

Look at the 24th page. https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/149998-heaths-flooded-tube-vertical-24.html

The harvest was 46 0z


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## Tuhder (Nov 6, 2011)

Thx pilip, I guess I was weed blinded by the pictures, and it was in *bold* too.  

Man, this thread just fucked up my whole life. My last cycle was 28 plants, 24" tall and I yielded 33oz under 2400w in aero. I knew I was being inefficient, I didnt realize how inefficient until now, I wanna puke just thinking about how much electricity I have pissed away over the past year. 

Thanks for the wake up call Heath!


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## pilip (Nov 6, 2011)

Yep, Heaths brings it to another level. Good luck Tuhder.


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## kana (Nov 11, 2011)

if cuttings are unavailable, will this work with enough seeds?


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## pilip (Nov 14, 2011)

kana, yes of course


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## kana (Nov 14, 2011)

pilip said:


> kana, yes of course


how would you go about germinating that many lol?


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## niceguysi (Nov 14, 2011)

kana said:


> how would you go about germinating that many lol?


Just germinate using the normal methods ie wet paper towel then into large zip lock bag and put away in a dark warm place. I usually inflate the zip lock bags by breathing into them. Good luck.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 19, 2011)

Can anyone answer the simple question of where's the door lol Its the one thing I can't figure out. My next setup is gonna be built like this and I just for he life of me can't figure it out lol


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## tenthirty (Nov 19, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Can anyone answer the simple question of where's the door lol Its the one thing I can't figure out. My next setup is gonna be built like this and I just for he life of me can't figure it out lol


You have to go over or under. With my setup I went over. When the babies get big enough, there is a very good chance that you will break some while working on them or getting in or out.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 19, 2011)

Rofl lol only draw back to it the. Huh? Lol but then again I suppose they don't need much care lol til u need to chop anyways


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## cagey (Nov 20, 2011)

Heath told us on one of the previous pages that he climbs <UNDER> where
the pipes come down


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## TheOrganic (Dec 28, 2011)

Awesome setup and the right way 2 go. Love the damn also.


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## ShinobiGreen (Jan 21, 2012)

Sorry for being late on this one, but I had to salute Heath. This is the most efficient and creative grow I've seen on RIU. Amazing example.


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## ladin (Feb 16, 2012)

I do not understand how this system of dams prevents the exchange of nutrients


How to empty the water in the new system


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## alotapot (Mar 29, 2012)

Excellent design! I've run constant circulation set ups before and really enjoyed them, mine were dwc but worked very well indeed.

alp


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## cagey (Apr 18, 2012)

Just turn the dam completely & drain the system after you switched off the pump.
It's that simple


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## socialsmoker (Apr 22, 2012)

Awesome grow Heath + rep


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## mentalman (Apr 23, 2012)

i think this setup is amazing, good on ya heath, and nice buds


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## gbis59ll (Apr 25, 2012)

just made three of these, he hit 46 o'z im hoping for 

40+ x 3

thinik its possible?


how long did he veg them for?

i want to just 12/12 from clone


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## zamzia (Apr 26, 2012)

This is a testament to how impressive Heath's inventions are, after two years the thread is still alive and inspiring people!

gbis5911, I think Heath said he vegged for 2 weeks prior to 12/12 for the first run (which he did in the flooded vert), and then fed the vert with rooted clones 12/12. See what works for you, but you won't want them getting too big so veg probably isn't necessary. Good luck and please post up a link to your grow, would love to see it 

zamzia


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## tokeintuckz (Apr 26, 2012)

i want to try something very similar to this


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## gbis59ll (Apr 26, 2012)

thanks much i will do!

so can i put the babys under a t5 horizontal for 2 weeks rooting then plant in vertical?

i heard you wanna root verticaly which doesnt make sense


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## sqydro (Apr 27, 2012)

so building one of these next


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## gbis59ll (Apr 28, 2012)

why do they have to root vertically?


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## zamzia (Apr 30, 2012)

gbis59ll said:


> why do they have to root vertically?


Not really sure what you mean by 'root vertically'? Clones just need to be rooted.


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## PsychoSeven (May 14, 2012)

i have been reading up on hydro and vertical growing and i see you said you replace the water every 2 weeks how much nutrients do you put in your set up if i wanted to do the samething why nutrients would i use. Im sorry im sure this is a stupid question but im new and i want to make sure i do it right the time i try hydro.

p.s. i have done soil indoor, so i have a some what understanding of growing


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## Boyz N Da Hood (May 15, 2012)

I believe Heath only used 1.0ec which is about 500ppm throughout the grow.. Haven't read his grows in a while so I may be wrong, somebody correct me if I am..
BR hates nutes so I'm sure that's y he went so low with them but if your gonna run another strain then u may need to go a bit higher..


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## NickNasty (May 17, 2012)

he runs 1.0 ec all the way and i believe that is with every stain.


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## zamzia (May 17, 2012)

1.0ec in veg and 1.2ec in flower. Although some of his other grows (not posted on these boards) he has gone up higher for strains that require it. Basically, keep it low unless the plant indicates it is lacking. Better to work your way up gradually than over do it and have to deal with nute burn / stressing the plant.

zamzia


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## sqydro (May 18, 2012)

how the hell did he get in and out of that space though?? i am doing this with another level added and another 600w and white widow i think  be sick


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## Corso312 (Jun 9, 2012)

wow that is impressive, never seen anything like that


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## oceangreen (Jun 10, 2012)

Honestly, I am not impressed with this design at all. 46 with that many sites is not a big feat.

Ans so what if you need to you use more power....


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## jigfresh (Jun 10, 2012)

Lol ........


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## Corso312 (Jun 10, 2012)

lol oceangreen....you can't be serious ...and if you can beat that lets see it


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## sqydro (Jun 11, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> Honestly, I am not impressed with this design at all. 46 with that many sites is not a big feat.
> 
> Ans so what if you need to you use more power....


yeah cos 46oz from a 600w light is everyday stuff id like to see u get half of that! the amount of plants is irrelevant he could get more off of 2 plants if he wanted hes maximising efficiancy 600w into 46oz = 2gpw+ so u show me a grow on here or anywere that breaks that with so little effort. no Ac no CO2.....man u must feel stupid now


----------



## Bluezdude (Jun 11, 2012)

sqydro said:


> yeah cos 46oz from a 600w light is everyday stuff id like to see u get half of that! the amount of plants is irrelevant he could get more off of 2 plants if he wanted hes maximising efficiancy 600w into 46oz = 2gpw+ so u show me a grow on here or anywere that breaks that with so little effort. no Ac no CO2.....man u must feel stupid now


i'd love to see me getting 1/4 of that! Amazing shit


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## oceangreen (Jun 11, 2012)

sqydro said:


> yeah cos 46oz from a 600w light is everyday stuff id like to see u get half of that! the amount of plants is irrelevant he could get more off of 2 plants if he wanted hes maximising efficiancy 600w into 46oz = 2gpw+ so u show me a grow on here or anywere that breaks that with so little effort. no Ac no CO2.....man u must feel stupid now


again 4 or 5 regular dwc, much less space, no need to drill and cluster fuck the situation. 1000 more watts and getting close to that is doable in a much simpler setup with much less plants + time/yield and space used.

If you are too cheap to get the extra lighting then do this... but probably spend even more money/time maintaining this setup. 

and there is a mother somewhere getting 250w. So big deal, 600 watts or 1000 or 1500.

I not saying this is a bad setup. It good, just not amazing. He can do better, I already caught a flaw or two in the design that would have made things much easier for him.
In addtion he is forced to do 12/12 right away with that many sites close to each other or else he is asking for the system to clog. Its limited.

with all the money he spent on the mylar insulaltion. he could have gotten another light with less plant and hassle. 

SB's setup if much more efficient
people are getting that much yeild, much less space, with a bit more power every 3 weeks

But still a good job, offcourse


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## sqydro (Jun 11, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> again 4 or 5 regular dwc, much less space, no need to drill and cluster fuck the situation. 1000 more watts and getting close to that is doable in a much simpler setup with much less plants + time/yield and space used.
> 
> If you are too cheap to get the extra lighting then do this... but probably spend even more money/time maintaining this setup.
> 
> ...


can u mail me a link to this other grow, what would u change in the design? i am planning bulding one with 2 more levels and 1 more 600w the only prob i can see is getting in n out the thing

and i think he done this as a test grow to see if it was going to work be4 he dialed it for bigger better yields, and the mylar he uses is readily available for free from any building site near you just look out for them, that and kingspan are always on them and both great for groom building 

and as for the less plant sites problem if u did have less and veg 2 weeks or so i thing ud have to tie up the plants as theyd have a few colas instead of one?


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## oceangreen (Jun 11, 2012)

sqydro said:


> can u mail me a link to this other grow, what would u change in the design? i am planning bulding one with 2 more levels and 1 more 600w the only prob i can see is getting in n out the thing
> 
> and i think he done this as a test grow to see if it was going to work be4 he dialed it for bigger better yields, and the mylar he uses is readily available for free from any building site near you just look out for them, that and kingspan are always on them and both great for groom building
> 
> and as for the less plant sites problem if u did have less and veg 2 weeks or so i thing ud have to tie up the plants as theyd have a few colas instead of one?


Don't use this guys design for your op. No vegging are you serious?

Real ops have a veg/flr room. 

if you want a max of 46 every 9 weeks then go right ahead. Do some more research


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## jigfresh (Jun 11, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> Real ops have a veg/flr room.


So if I only have a flower room, my grow isn't real? That's cool. I've been getting high off imaginary weed! At least I can't get in trouble with the law.


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## BearDown! (Jun 12, 2012)

jigfresh said:


> So if I only have a flower room, my grow isn't real? That's cool. I've been getting high off imaginary weed! At least I can't get in trouble with the law.


hilarious btw... i enjoy when people can make me laugh..


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## BearDown! (Jun 12, 2012)

In addtion he is forced to do 12/12 right away with that many sites close to each other or else he is asking for the system to clog. Its limited.


are you suggesting roots getting tied together because that is only thing i could think of that would keep him/me from veging longer to max the yiel you speak of w less plants..


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## oceangreen (Jun 12, 2012)

BearDown! said:


> In addtion he is forced to do 12/12 right away with that many sites close to each other or else he is asking for the system to clog. Its limited.
> 
> 
> are you suggesting roots getting tied together because that is only thing i could think of that would keep him/me from veging longer to max the yiel you speak of w less plants..


Not just that, no light penetration, not enough space for buds, roots will CLOG the system, if they get any bigger. 

He would get more yeild if he DID EVERY OTHER site with less plants with the exact same setup.....


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## sqydro (Jun 15, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> Don't use this guys design for your op. No vegging are you serious?
> 
> Real ops have a veg/flr room.
> 
> if you want a max of 46 every 9 weeks then go right ahead. Do some more research


i would have a cuttings/veg room put them in at 1 week old, and use more tiers 1 more 600 and less sites, it would not clog though, near impossible!

i am doing plenty research over on IC vert section they swear by more plants = bigger yield

you seem to know how to do improved way or better be good to see some stuff that i could look over. that link would be good also

sqydro


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## oceangreen (Jun 15, 2012)

sqydro said:


> i would have a cuttings/veg room put them in at 1 week old, and use more tiers 1 more 600 and less sites, it would not clog though, near impossible!
> 
> i am doing plenty research over on IC vert section they swear by more plants = bigger yield
> 
> ...


you are on to something. Make it more practical for yourself. less sites is easier and less messy, more room for plant, one more 600 is very easy to do and wont cost much, just improve yield.

1 week cuttling idea is good, but you will be left waiting 8 weeks for every harvest...

I would cut his system size in half...and make 2 flowering systems( use one and then start the second one after 4 weeks), have 1 600 on each of them, half the sites

Build a cloner system, have cuttings in the system for 3 weeks and then transplant to the flowering system.
You will have 46( or whatever you are supposed to get) every 4 weeks that way..


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## Corso312 (Jun 16, 2012)

the guy is getting 2 grams a watt..that is amazing and very had to do...the way he hss it set up is perfect...he takes the cuttings when the plants begin to flower and roots them for the next round..nothing is wasted.


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## sqydro (Jun 16, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> you are on to something. Make it more practical for yourself. less sites is easier and less messy, more room for plant, one more 600 is very easy to do and wont cost much, just improve yield.
> 
> 1 week cuttling idea is good, but you will be left waiting 8 weeks for every harvest...
> 
> ...


and do you run a dwc type system aswel?


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## oceangreen (Jun 16, 2012)

sqydro said:


> and do you run a dwc type system aswel?


no dwc...

the cloner is a mister system...with ez clone sprayers

honestly, I think I know what you are looking for. 

I recommend the stinkbud 3 part system. Look into it


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## smokemupm8 (Jun 17, 2012)

Old Frog said:


> So just a tad over your expected average of .5 oz. per plant? What an impressive score per watt and sq. ft. that is!
> 
> Out of curiosity, did you monitor the amount of water your setup consumed over the entire project?
> 
> Superb setup, nice cycle, clean journal, competent grower. Who could ask for anything more?


This was one of my tops from a 400w single grow.. yielded 8oz dry bud at harvesthttps://www.rollitup.org/groups/aussie-growers-club-picture2182183-nice-top-b4-harvest.jpg


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## Corso312 (Jun 17, 2012)

o.k. so you got 8 ounces on a 400 watt light..that is about 224 grams or .52 grams per watt..heath got 2 grams per watt roughly 4 times what you pulled...he would pull around 800 grams with your 400 watt light or 31 ounces.


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## oceangreen (Jun 17, 2012)

Corso312 said:


> o.k. so you got 8 ounces on a 400 watt light..that is about 224 grams or .52 grams per watt..heath got 2 grams per watt roughly 4 times what you pulled...he would pull around 800 grams with your 400 watt light or 31 ounces.


ok listen.. its very hard to pull off 2g a watt...just because this guy can do it doesn't mean, everybody can.... and its too inconsistent to be shooting for that every time.....

Which is why I stated its impractical to follow this guy exact grow, with the idea to pull off 2g/w.

Like I said there are better ways to get that yield....


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 17, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> ok listen.. its very hard to pull off 2g a watt...just because this guy can do it doesn't mean, everybody can.... and its too inconsistent to be shooting for that every time.....
> 
> Which is why I stated its impractical to follow this guy exact grow, with the idea to pull off 2g/w.
> 
> *Like I said there are better ways to get that yield*....


you aren't getting yields over 1.5-1.75gpw with a horizontal bulb. the most efficient way as of now to get those yields is using vertical lighting. you basically more than double the footprint of the bulb. the technique and style may vary (i.e. stadium, colisseum, rotating system) but the principle is the same. if you know of a "better way to get that yield" then please share because i've been growing a long time and that is the most efficient way i have seen.


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## oceangreen (Jun 17, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> you aren't getting yields over 1.5-1.75gpw with a horizontal bulb. the most efficient way as of now to get those yields is using vertical lighting. you basically more than double the footprint of the bulb. the technique and style may vary (i.e. stadium, colisseum, rotating system) but the principle is the same. if you know of a "better way to get that yield" then please share because i've been growing a long time and that is the most efficient way i have seen.



I don't not mean the lighting, I meant the entire set up and method. I will put up a thread soon

In no way am I bashing, but this set up is in no way for the noob...


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 17, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> I don't not mean the lighting, I meant the entire set up and method. I will put up a thread soon
> 
> In no way am I bashing, but this set up is in no way for the noob...


you can change the setup/technique however you want. it's the footprint i am talking about. colisseum grow is not the setup; it's the footprint. you can set it up using RDWC buckets, soil, rockwool flood trays, etc... just depends on how handy you are. the layout of the footprint is what is so efficient.

plus, this setup is not that complicated for a newb. it's a hydro setup just like most others. what is a little complicated is the construction. that would require someone who has a little "handyman" knowledge. you could make the same setup for soil out of some simple angled shelves.


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## Corso312 (Jun 17, 2012)

agreed, this set up runs itself...it is a brilliant design and I could train a chimpanzee to pull massive harvests off this system ... I have been growing for close to ten years and have never sniffed 2 grams a watt..and this guy used no co2 or a.c. ...I will build a set up like this down the road..the only thing that I don't like it the access to the inside perimeter or lack thereof.


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## sqydro (Jun 17, 2012)

agreed access is shit, and u cant get much simpler once system is built put cuts in fill sytem flip and maintain! easy! i think its a great design easily maintained and restocked after a quick flush. look forward to the thread OF


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 17, 2012)

if you did the same setup but for soil you could just make 4 shelf systems in a circle around the light and then put one of them on wheels. that way you just slide it out whenever you want to get inside.


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## sqydro (Jun 17, 2012)

soil makes me sick in everyway most un efficent and disgusting way of growing IMO coco would be all id be willing to do but still lugging to many bags about


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 17, 2012)

sqydro said:


> soil makes me sick in everyway most un efficent and disgusting way of growing IMO coco would be all id be willing to do but still lugging to many bags about


i've grown both soil and hydro for over 12 years and soil is a LOT easier than hydro. less work, less mess, less tweaking, less room for error, less maintenance, less checking. overall just easier in my opinion. hydro is quicker for sure...especially in veg but in my experience there really is no difference in yield.


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## sqydro (Jun 18, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> i've grown both soil and hydro for over 12 years and soil is a LOT easier than hydro. less work, less mess, less tweaking, less room for error, less maintenance, less checking. overall just easier in my opinion. hydro is quicker for sure...especially in veg but in my experience there really is no difference in yield.


less mess? in soil lol i beg to differ, all u need in hydro esp DWC is some clay balls in a net pot and water. sure its more maintainance but for a better result imo. less chance of pests etc as well in hydro

each to there own though i see alot of great grows in soil its just not for me. and certainly not for this HYDRO thread ;0)


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 18, 2012)

sqydro said:


> less mess? in soil lol i beg to differ, all u need in hydro esp DWC is some clay balls in a net pot and water. sure its more maintainance but for a better result imo. less chance of pests etc as well in hydro
> 
> each to there own though i see alot of great grows in soil its just not for me. and certainly not for this HYDRO thread ;0)


i think this thread evolved past "just" a hydro thread 400 posts ago.  for me soil is less mess and maintenance. cleaning hydroton afterward is more time consuming to me than dumping some soil for reuse into a 55 gallon drum. plus, with soil all i have to do is stick my plant in a pot. set the pots up on a flood tray with a drain fitting and when i get runoff i empty a 5 gallon bucket sitting under the drain. when you use fabric pots it's even less mess than that cause you don't even get runoff after you learn to watch the pot. 

like you said though...to each their own. neither soil nor hydro produces a better yield or quality as opposed to the other. hydro is faster though.


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## oceangreen (Jun 18, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> i think this htread evolved past "just" a hydro thread 400 posts ago.  for me soil is less mess and maintenance. cleaning hydroton afterward is more time consuming to me than dumping some soil for reuse into a 55 gallon drum. plus, with soil all i have to do is stick my plant in a pot. set the pots up on a flood tray with a drain fitting and when i get runoff i empty a 5 gallon bucket sitting under the drain. when you use fabric pots it's even less mess than that cause you don't even get runoff after you learn to watch the pot.
> 
> like you said though...to each their own. neither soil nor hydro produces a better yield or quality as opposed to the other. hydro is faster though.


ditch the hydroton, use sure to grow cubes or neoprene, blue lab peridoser.... have a recirculating system.. with easy access to drain and faucet.

You can get by checking once every 2 weeks and just having the major rez changes


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 18, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> ditch the hydroton, use sure to grow cubes or neoprene, blue lab peridoser.... have a recirculating system.. with easy access to drain and faucet.
> 
> You can get by checking once every 2 weeks and just having the major rez changes


i've heard some horror stories about that stuff. lots of guys running into problems when they tried "sure to grow" medium. i grow in 4" rockwool blocks in mesh pots on flood tables. tables are filled with hydroton too. it's a recirculating system. i'm switching out to under current slowly though. much more efficient, larger plants, less nutes.


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## oceangreen (Jun 18, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> i've heard some horror stories about that stuff. lots of guys running into problems when they tried "sure to grow" medium. i grow in 4" rockwool blocks in mesh pots on flood tables. tables are filled with hydroton too. it's a recirculating system. i'm switching out to under current slowly though. much more efficient, larger plants, less nutes.


what horror stories?... they retain water fine and the are easy to germinate in.. dont have to deal with dust or ph issues..


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## oceangreen (Jun 18, 2012)

or you could take clones and use neoprene inserts.. that it the best....


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 18, 2012)

i use rockwool now but as i am switching over to under current slowly i am trying out aero systems for veg. you really wanna go bare root in UC systems.

i've just heard of people having problems with STG. i'm not gonna bash them and maybe someday i'll try them out but i really don't think i'll be trying them anytime soon.


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## Green Troll (Jun 22, 2012)

Finally got to the end of this thread!

Heath, you have inspired me to build a system like this for myself. Currently i am designing something very similar in AutoCAD. The main differences i am making is access on one side, slightly bigger (5 and a half feet across internally), 12" spacings and 6 rows instead of 4. I just want to say thanks for giving us all the details we need to copy this genius idea.

Once i get this thing built and running, i will start a journal and let you all know how it goes.


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## oceangreen (Jun 22, 2012)

Green Troll said:


> 12" spacings and 6 rows instead of 4.


Nice modification!


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## forestboy (Jun 24, 2012)

The most inspiring set up ever!!

I'm stealing the idea and modifying it. Building a 6 tear setup, slightly wider and doubling it as a figure 8 still using only 1 res, possibly sunk into the ground. I am also gonna drill holes in the in each adjustable collar. I want to be able to slowly fill the chambers up to the collar height but then have pumps disengage untill all chambers naturally drain over a relatively short period before pumps reingage slowly filling chamber again, thus allowing roots to sit in moist air for approx half to 3/4 their life span. Bit risky maybe as power failure would kill plants in a very short space of time but I'm gonna use 2 pumps so other than a power failure I should be ok!

BTW cheers Heath


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## forestboy (Jun 24, 2012)

Oh also I am gonna use x2 600 hps attached to a light mover on rollers so as 1 light lowers the other raises and so on and so forth!


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## jigfresh (Jun 24, 2012)

FYI, I run something like this setup and live where there are a lot of power outages. I found that the plants do alright even with no water for quite a while. I think I put 2 gallons through, 2 or 3 times in 24 hours and they were fine from what I could tell. I bet they could go longer too.

First time the power went out I freaked and hand watered 4 gallons every hour, for 42 fucking hours of no electricity. Guess it was good practice for having a baby with all that waking up overnight.

I loved my flooded tube setup so much. I hope you do too.


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## forestboy (Jun 24, 2012)

jigfresh said:


> FYI, I run something like this setup and live where there are a lot of power outages. I found that the plants do alright even with no water for quite a while. I think I put 2 gallons through, 2 or 3 times in 24 hours and they were fine from what I could tell. I bet they could go longer too.
> 
> First time the power went out I freaked and hand watered 4 gallons every hour, for 42 fucking hours of no electricity. Guess it was good practice for having a baby with all that waking up overnight.
> 
> I loved my flooded tube setup so much. I hope you do too.


Thanks for that feedback. That actually galvanises my theory that the plants would in fact do better if the set up could drain. Based on that I may test how long it takes to fill to colar height and set pumps to run for this period only allowing drainage at the instant the levels get to maximum height. I guess as long as the temps aren't too high the roots and innards of the tubes would remain very humid/ damp for quite a few hours. May in fact only activate timer once an hour and see how plants respond!

Cheers


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## jigfresh (Jun 24, 2012)

Keep us posted on things. Always fun to see a new project.


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## richardhocutt (Jun 25, 2012)

If the roots are costantly submerged in the water flowing through the pipes... Why dont they get root rot then? This is something that I just dont understand...


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## oceangreen (Jun 25, 2012)

richardhocutt said:


> If the roots are costantly submerged in the water flowing through the pipes... Why dont they get root rot then? This is something that I just dont understand...


water temps and no they are not constantly submerged.. a timer pumps water through them at timed intervals..


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 25, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> water temps and no they are not constantly submerged.. a timer pumps water through them at timed intervals..


also the readily available oxygen in most hydro systems like rdwc and undercurrent where the roots actually do sit in water. on heaths setup the roots are sitting in water as well i believe. that is why there are dams built in. but as long as the water is oxyginated and the temps controlled than you are fine.


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## jigfresh (Jun 25, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> water temps and no they are not constantly submerged.. a timer pumps water through them at timed intervals..


Like scooby said they are indeed submerged in water all the time. Its the dissolved oxygen that allows the roots to breathe, keeping water temps down is crucial.


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## forestboy (Jun 25, 2012)

jigfresh said:


> Keep us posted on things. Always fun to see a new project.


Will do man. Gonna be a while though cos my current build is cycling I don't have anymore space or time at the mo. If it aint broke don't fix it kinda thing. But I'm looking for another space cos I want to build this badly. Probably a few months away!


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## forestboy (Jun 25, 2012)

jigfresh said:


> Like scooby said they are indeed submerged in water all the time. Its the dissolved oxygen that allows the roots to breathe, keeping water temps down is crucial.


Absolutely it is! But if memory serves me well the optimal temp for plant health and max dissolved oxygen is 21 degrees. Also dissolved oxygen at this temp within water is only 2% of that which roots would be getting from the air in even a soil medium so I fail to understand how this guy is getting such good results. I don't doubt him at all but it's baffling! Defies conventional knowledge, there shouldn't be sufficient oxygen!

He states that the speed in which the water travels is how the plants are receiving sufficient oxygen and I guess this must be it i.e molecules of o2 are passing dissolved within the water at such a rate that the roots can perpetually replenish themselves from the the fast flow. This has to be the reason but I still don't fully understand cos the roots will still only be able to access a max of 2% of their requirements at any one moment!?!?!?!?


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## forestboy (Jun 25, 2012)

The other thing I was thinking is this... the collars are half way up the tube. The net pots bases are I guess about half way down the tube. This is critical initially to stop any dry zones between the plant and the root entrails. I guess he gets air in the zone within the net pot and when root growth builds many will lay on the top of the flow of water.

What I'm saying is I am sure that oxygen uptake could be greatly improved and if this is the case bear in mind the prolific yields he's getting from minimal watts, the sky is the limit!


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## Green Troll (Jun 26, 2012)

forestboy said:


> Absolutely it is! But if memory serves me well the optimal temp for plant health and max dissolved oxygen is 21 degrees. Also dissolved oxygen at this temp within water is only 2% of that which roots would be getting from the air in even a soil medium so I fail to understand how this guy is getting such good results. I don't doubt him at all but it's baffling! Defies conventional knowledge, there shouldn't be sufficient oxygen!
> 
> He states that the speed in which the water travels is how the plants are receiving sufficient oxygen and I guess this must be it i.e molecules of o2 are passing dissolved within the water at such a rate that the roots can perpetually replenish themselves from the the fast flow. This has to be the reason but I still don't fully understand cos the roots will still only be able to access a max of 2% of their requirements at any one moment!?!?!?!?


I am not 100% sure, but if what you are saying is right, and water holds that 2%, the fact that is flowing, that have a new 2% within seconds. So all those 2%'s are adding up to what the plant needs. I might be wrong but that is how it works in my head =) Like how you need to circulate air in your grow room for new CO2.


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## sqydro (Jun 26, 2012)

the waterfall in the res creates the DO about 8 -10% anything over 15% is toxic then it is pumped round the sytem at high speed, roots thrive in it, and as for yield its because he has crammed a zillion plants round the bulb no light wasted at all, very efficiant way of growing, and obv diallage and the fact hes a wizzard plays a part lol


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## Green Troll (Jun 26, 2012)

sqydro said:


> the waterfall in the res creates the DO about 8 -10% anything over 15% is toxic then it is pumped round the sytem at high speed, roots thrive in it, and as for yield its because he has crammed a zillion plants round the bulb no light wasted at all, very efficiant way of growing, and obv diallage and the fact hes a wizzard plays a part lol


Ohhh i didnt know more than 15% was toxic. How does that work? I mean, what about bubbleponics/DWC with a mass of air rocks? I heard you cant get too much oxygen in your water.


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## sqydro (Jun 26, 2012)

air stones do not add DO the best micropore air stones will create the same as a waterfall in ur res, its the aggitation of the water that gets the DO in there, ga exchange takes place at the surface as its broken, fluming and waterfall better ways of running DWC ive done both and stonless wins hands down for me, horses for courses though


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## Corso312 (Jun 26, 2012)

so are the gray dams inside the pipe home made? assume so ..plastic? they are glued? silicon ? to the inside wall? are they even necessary?


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## sqydro (Jun 26, 2012)

yes for this style with the veg and dwc the collars keep the level touching the net pot bottom with out them its just nft basicly


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## oceangreen (Jun 26, 2012)

This guy is a straight pro. I've seen his other grows, top tier ..


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## forestboy (Jun 27, 2012)

sqydro said:


> the waterfall in the res creates the DO about 8 -10% anything over 15% is toxic then it is pumped round the sytem at high speed, roots thrive in it, and as for yield its because he has crammed a zillion plants round the bulb no light wasted at all, very efficiant way of growing, and obv diallage and the fact hes a wizzard plays a part lol


This makes sense. Of course, the 2% figure I stated was the percentage of oxygen the plant needs in total including what the leaves take in. I'm now wondering if a figure 8 would be too much. Ie by the time the water got to the end plant it would have depleted the amound of oxygen atoms within the solution and plant growth would decline as you got to the last plants or beyond half way! Hmmmm!

Dammit, I want to do the figure 8 for the cool factor!


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## oceangreen (Jun 29, 2012)

i'll take the 1000th post


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## Green Troll (Jul 2, 2012)

oceangreen said:


> i'll take the 1000th post


No you wont xD *

#1001​

*


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## Clown Baby (Jul 2, 2012)

Corso312 said:


> so are the gray dams inside the pipe home made? assume so ..plastic? they are glued? silicon ? to the inside wall? are they even necessary?


They were home made and he affixed them with silicon.
If I remember correctly, Heath said he stopped using them after a while, because the roots grow out enough that they dont need the dams. The dams+roots started to cause overflowing so he took em out..


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## Corso312 (Jul 2, 2012)

Thanks... good to know...will be building one of these next month.


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## oceangreen (Jul 3, 2012)

Green Troll said:


> No you wont xD *
> 
> #1001​
> 
> *


I am devastated, I really thought i had it....


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## growrider (Jul 7, 2012)

Hey guys newbe to the site so hi to everyone! I'm very new to growing and i started using this exact system, i'm good on the tools so it wasn't hard for me to build. Right now i'm on my 4th grow and am starting to change things a little, i have added a light mover and a few air stones and some lead's.My first grow yielded 1pound 5oz, second was just a bit short of 2 pounds and the third i completely stuffed up and only got 1 pound, i vegged for to long and it was over crowded. All the grows previous to this one iv had the wrong strain and have never had the system completely full, due to being shit at cloning but now i have figured it out, so the 5th grow will be completely full really looking forward to that one!I have quite a few questions to ask but will only ask a couple to start with.No1 if i were to add a 1000watter would that be ok considering that i also have a light mover. No2 how much more heat will 1000watter produce over the 600.


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## smooth88 (Aug 9, 2012)

quick question about the design. In the pictures it appears that the tubes wrap all the way around the room, if this is so how do you enter the center? If they dont wrap all the way around do they how do you use one succession of pipe for all four levels?


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## OGEvilgenius (Aug 9, 2012)

You don't enter, you work from behind and above. At least that was the impression I got. When you turn it off I imagine it's somewhat easy to disassemble and/or move.


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## smooth88 (Aug 9, 2012)

you think it would be easier to leave at least a small gap towards the bottom so you can crawl in for easier maintenance


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## jigfresh (Aug 10, 2012)

He can crawl in somewhere, but only before the plants start growing much, then there's no room.


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## S1ingblade (Aug 12, 2012)

Hey heath I luv your style!


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## herballuvmonkey (Aug 13, 2012)

I have always been interested in tube growing.' Have a few schematics on it that I have drawn up. I'll keep an eye on yours as you post more pics.


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## Stonefree69 (Aug 23, 2012)

Heath Robinson said:


> Up to press the Sylvania Grolux have given me the best results. I have seen that others have had problems with them but luckily I haven't. I use the old lumatek ballasts (silver) and the new blue lumatek's with the super lumens switch.


I'm going to try these out on my Phantom digital 600 watt ballasts. I heard about a Sylvania Grolux bulb trick to break in with digital ballasts from a bghydro dealer:


"The problems with the 400W version of the Grolux were happening on both magnetic and electronic ballasts (I believe). But, I just checked out returns on this bulb for 2006 and we have only had 1 bulb returned this year, so maybe they fixed the problem. There is still a compatibility issue with both Grolux bulbs and the Lumatek digital ballast, but *I'll let you in on a little secret we recently discovered: If you simply let the ballast run a full 12 hours or more the first time you fire it up, you shouldn't have any problems igniting the bulb after that. In other words, don't take a new Grolux bulb, plug it in, and then unplug it during the first 12 hours. During this period the ballast learns what the bulb wants, and it only needs to do this the first time it is used.*

Solarmax bulbs, however, are not compatible."


I kinda makes sense on why some are having success and other are not w/the Grolux on digital ballasts. Heath said it it has given him the best results. I wonder if this trick would work w/Hortilux also?!


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## TruckBoat (Sep 12, 2012)

Green Troll said:


> Finally got to the end of this thread!
> 
> Heath, you have inspired me to build a system like this for myself. Currently i am designing something very similar in AutoCAD. The main differences i am making is access on one side, slightly bigger (5 and a half feet across internally), 12" spacings and 6 rows instead of 4. I just want to say thanks for giving us all the details we need to copy this genius idea.
> 
> Once i get this thing built and running, i will start a journal and let you all know how it goes.


Will you be showing your drawings and improvements?


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## Bluezdude (Sep 15, 2012)

Yeah if you could that'd be much appreciated mate


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## NOR.C4L.DUB (Nov 13, 2012)

These methods are awesome. Is there a link to the method with the 2 plants that yielded 73+ oz? There was pictures of it in the beginning of the thread. I can't have a high plant count so the 2 plant method is best for me. Thanks in advance.


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## Corso312 (Nov 14, 2012)

I would like to see the plans also...am thinking 4 inch pvc would work great with 4 unions to make for a qucker/easier assemble/disassemble for cleaning.


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## GypsyBush (Nov 14, 2012)

Someone around here was using 4" corrugated drain pipe with a wooden frame...
he used a 50 ft length, no fittings, under 50 bucks for the pipe at home depot...


here it is...

https://www.rollitup.org/vertical-growing/524679-pyros-vertical-rdwc.html


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## Hal Incandenza (Nov 18, 2012)

Heath Robinson said:


> Cheers *smokinmayne*
> 
> 
> Hi *iloveit* I have a solid fuel burner so everything gets burnt. I used to dry everything and throw it at the landfill though.
> ...


Make hash from your trim. I'll take it if you don't want it lol.


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## OGEvilgenius (Nov 18, 2012)

Corso312 said:


> I would like to see the plans also...am thinking 4 inch pvc would work great with 4 unions to make for a qucker/easier assemble/disassemble for cleaning.


4 unions? Do you mean like make it a square instead of an octogon? I'm pretty sure he made it an octogon to ensure an even canopy, and to make sure the water flowed more smoothly.


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## bobesponja (Dec 26, 2012)

un saludo despe eres dun fenomeno


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## scuba.420 (Feb 10, 2013)

Just wondering why you didn't use a 1000 watt bulb ? Loved it though building one next time I go to my house in the UK


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## Evo8Emperor (Feb 11, 2013)

A union is a connection that's twist together.

As for why heath use's a 600w light he believe's that they are just more efficient is all. What he pull's with just one 600w light I'm sure he would do wonder's with a 1k.

I am looking to build a similar system in a 54inx54in tent with 4"pvc I'm thinking. I seen Pyro's but I like being able to break things down easily so 50' of 5" tubing is hard to put some where. lol.

I'm not sure how the 4" will effect the plants though so I was curious if anyone has tried it ? I would go with the 6" if I have to just a lot more money for pipe and fittings.

I like the fact if power goes out you can have a way on top to just pour water through it if needed. So your not losing any crops.


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## jigfresh (Feb 11, 2013)

I use 4" pipe and works well for me. One time I vegged too long and the roots were filling up the whole pipe, had a little drip coming from the plant site. But I vegged 4 weeks from clone with that one... vacation screwed up timing. Usually veg 2 weeks or so from clone.

Lots of pics in my journals and lots of vids on my channel

[youtube]qK1cFMzcF5E[/youtube]

And my guess on using a 600 is that it's more efficient than a 600. Heath seems to enjoy efficiency.


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## Evo8Emperor (Feb 11, 2013)

Glad you pointed me towards your page ill be over there to ask some ?'s


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## jigfresh (Feb 11, 2013)

Sorry, my sig isn't clear anymore. Grow 3 is 1 level of that tubing. Grow 4-8 is the 2 level setup. Before that I was DWC.


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## scuba.420 (Feb 11, 2013)

Question is it a complete 360 or is there a section missing so you can get into it


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## Bud Brewer (Feb 11, 2013)

there is just a small space under the 45 degree pipe on the ground that he crawls under.


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## scuba.420 (Feb 11, 2013)

So its a complete circle ?


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## scuba.420 (Feb 11, 2013)

So its a Complete 360 so say ?


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## Bud Brewer (Feb 11, 2013)

More like a square corkscrew.


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## greenghost420 (Feb 11, 2013)

would bumping up to 1000 double yeild? i dont think it would. it would be way more efficient to build a 2nd system to double yeild and run 2 600s.


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## KINGJOHNC (Mar 25, 2013)

excellent work *Heath Robinson*!


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## HeliosGuard (Apr 3, 2013)

I was wondering, where does he put his carbon scrubber?


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## Gamberro (May 10, 2013)

Since I can't remember how to subscribe to a post, I'm posting on it so I'm subscribed. ANyone who cares to remind me, please go ahead and tell me-- I'm subscribed, after all.


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## borealux (May 29, 2013)

I wonder, has anyone achieved similar yields with comparable setup using soil instead of hydro? If anyone knows of something like that documented, would be greatly appreciated.


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## Gamberro (May 29, 2013)

There was a guy on here a few years back that was growing in an organic mix in utility buckets, each with a chicken wire around the top and a large CFL dropped inside the screen directly hanging over each bucket's top. It was pretty easy maintenance, he ScrOG'd/LST'd the plant around the bulb and flowered halfway up, so it was like a small tree vertical in each pot. Longer veg times than Heath's set up though, as per usual with ScrOG.


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## Indagrow (May 29, 2013)

This was my first introduction to this site a while back under a different name which I completely forgot haha is Heath still around? Is there a version 2.0 of this?


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## Gamberro (May 29, 2013)

I checked his profile a while back, he's been gone long enough that I wouldn't expect him to come back any time soon.


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## oceangreen (May 30, 2013)

too bad heath doesn't post much on this forum


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## faller200 (Jun 6, 2013)

iloveit said:


> Thought you guys may wanna take a look at this since were posting pics.


I like this setup along with some of the others I have seen but what bitch it must be to clean and set up. And how are you ever going to get to all the dripers or sprayers Looks cool and very expensive too.


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## LarryOG (Jan 29, 2014)

faller200 said:


> I like this setup along with some of the others I have seen but what bitch it must be to clean and set up. And how are you ever going to get to all the dripers or sprayers Looks cool and very expensive too.


Exactly, not worth it IMO, plus the final outcome is scraggly product. Good yield but not the highest end product. Good job though Heath.


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## BSD0621 (Feb 5, 2014)

bummpppity bump


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## sguardians2 (Nov 15, 2014)

Vertical cylindrical aeroponics

Very interesting, seems that the retail segment has caught on and is offering several versions from drip systems using vertical slabs of rockwool to HP aeroponic systems.

My experience with foggers and LP aeroponics leads me to great expectations for the HP aeroponic vertical cylindrical system.

http://www.hydrowholesale.com/agrowtent-vertical-hydro-grow-room-complete-28-x-56-70-plant-system-6013
http://cdn.supercloset.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/BBB.png

http://cdn6.bigcommerce.com/s-9sf3i6p/products/3445/images/6861/aeroponics_system__24945.1406324362.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

Root size could be a problem with pvc "grow tubes". Might be better to reduce plant numbers in this type of grow. 

Build or buy?

With prices from $1100 to $6000 for ready made systems, building would be much cheaper. But if you got the cheese, a purchase might be for you.


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## Alaric (Aug 2, 2015)

Heath Robinson said:


> Welcome to my latest vertical grow, this time around I am using 4" soil pipe, a 4000 litre per hour pump, and one 600w bulb.
> The internal diameter is 4 ft.
> 
> The build used 27 = 45 degree double sockets
> ...


I keep seeing heath's name being mentioned----so I did a search and found this thread----big disappointment, couldn't see the pics (only little blue boxes with questions marks) any way to get these back up?

Just want to see what all the praise is about----sounds like a tube setup similar to what @Hot Diggity Sog is setting up? 

A~~~


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## gulfcoastgrower (Aug 2, 2015)

I beleive hes got more threads on othersites and youtube he pumps the buds out


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## Alaric (Aug 2, 2015)

^^ thanks, I'll keep searching.


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## jigfresh (Aug 2, 2015)

@Alaric Just google Heath Robinson flooded tubes. There's copy journals out there.

Here's one with pics
http://www.wietforum.nl/topic/53631-heaths-flooded-tube-vertical/


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## ttystikk (Aug 2, 2015)

I like a lot of Heath's ideas. The ones I like best are those which solved a problem elegantly, with few moving parts or expensive componentry.

The vertical cylinder is a good idea. The flooded tube NFT didn't strike me as the best solution, so I stuck with RDWC at floor level.

Eventually I tweaked the cylinder until it wasn't one anymore, and I installed topfeed like Heath. I've done a lot of tweaks and then noticed that Heath had done most of them first, a long time ago!

I'm going to go hunting for those YouTube videos... because vertical trees is what I do!


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## Sativied (Aug 2, 2015)

jigfresh said:


> Here's one with pics
> http://www.wietforum.nl/topic/53631-heaths-flooded-tube-vertical/


What the... Heath posted at WF... hah... thanks for posting the link. That's perhaps one of the most complete versions pic-wise....

When RIU got hacked and the admin fucked up the albums a lot of good stuff got lost here... Besides the link above there are several pics in Google Images result: https://www.google.nl/search?q=heath+robinson+flooded+tubes Heath's still active as "zamzia" elsewhere...


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## gulfcoastgrower (Aug 2, 2015)

Heaths flood tube was sick


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## ttystikk (Aug 2, 2015)

gulfcoastgrower said:


> Heaths flood tube was sick


Not disputing that at all. I'm just trying to keep things simple.


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## gulfcoastgrower (Aug 2, 2015)

True i was just giving him props when i was a noob i followed his work still havent done vertical


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## gulfcoastgrower (Aug 2, 2015)

Il give it a try one day


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## Alaric (Aug 2, 2015)

^^Thanks guys----found several. I'm surprised with all the popularity ----why not a sticky here?

Hey S, too bad about the albums being lost.
A~~~


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## ttystikk (Aug 2, 2015)

Alaric said:


> ^^Thanks guys----found several. I'm surprised with all the popularity ----why not a sticky here?
> 
> Hey S, too bad about the albums being lost.
> A~~~


Really? Cool! Post 'em up here!


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## ttystikk (Aug 2, 2015)

gulfcoastgrower said:


> Il give it a try one day


The only thing you'll regret is waiting.


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## gulfcoastgrower (Aug 2, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> The only thing you'll regret is waiting.


 yeild wise ? thats the main advantage correct ?


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## gulfcoastgrower (Aug 2, 2015)

i grow in dwc


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## Sativied (Aug 2, 2015)

Alaric said:


> ^^Thanks guys----found several. I'm surprised with all the popularity ----why not a sticky here?
> 
> Hey S, too bad about the albums being lost.
> A~~~


Good question, though perhaps because he's not active here any more. My tubes are inspired mostly by @Earl, with a touch of Heath (flooded) ever seen Earl's threads/pics here? Search for spaceshuttle earl if you haven't. A monster of a setup in hindsight but I learned a lot from reading his thread initially, first thread I read at rollitup.

Heath also posted good advice on nutrient usage (base, moderate-low ppm, no additives...) which seems to has gotten lost amongst all the nonsense posted over the years.


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## gulfcoastgrower (Aug 2, 2015)

how much you think youll pull off that ? and what size lamp? im using bpn high yeild system


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## ttystikk (Aug 2, 2015)

gulfcoastgrower said:


> how much you think youll pull off that ? and what size lamp? im using bpn high yeild system


About a pound per plant, and my average is climbing fast.

I use RDWC and top feed, and I do chill my water. No airstones, though.

Yield, better use of space and ease of maintenance and plant husbandry are the reasons I recommend the approach.

What is bpn high yield system?


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## gulfcoastgrower (Aug 2, 2015)

Blue planet nutrients blue max two part ,vita blue ,liquid seeweed,earley bloom booster and liquid blue bloom booster ,and root magic


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## gulfcoastgrower (Aug 2, 2015)

How long you veg them ? From clone ?


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## ttystikk (Aug 2, 2015)

gulfcoastgrower said:


> Blue planet nutrients blue max two part ,vita blue ,liquid seeweed,earley bloom booster and liquid blue bloom booster ,and root magic


I use dry nutrient salts from Hydro-gardens.com. same nutrients, just stunningly cheaper.


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## ttystikk (Aug 2, 2015)

gulfcoastgrower said:


> How long you veg them ? From clone ?


Clone only so I know what I'm working with and up to three months from fresh cutting to bloomroom ready, depending on strain and conditions.


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## gulfcoastgrower (Aug 2, 2015)

600 hps ?


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## ttystikk (Aug 2, 2015)

gulfcoastgrower said:


> 600 hps ?


Noooooo... I'm over HPS as a lamp for growing plants under. It's much better for lighting streets, its original mission.

Try 860W CDM lamps. Vertical operation (only), open fixture rated, must use the cheapest (magnetic) thousand watt ballast available, lol

315W LEC tech is very similar and even better and more efficient but it is not cheap, especially on a watt for watt basis!


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## Alaric (Aug 2, 2015)

Hey ty,

Looked up that light and read a little-----I thought interesting.

http://www.advancedtechlighting.com/edbfp.htm

Sounds like you endorse this type of technology over HPS?

Anything we should be warned about----if tried?

A~~~


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## ttystikk (Aug 2, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Hey ty,
> 
> Looked up that light and read a little-----I thought interesting.
> 
> ...


I'm recommending them only because I've got plant-years of use with them under my belt and they outperform HPS even beyond a watt for watt basis. 

They run on magnetic ballast only, cheap old school MH thouie. 

They run in vertical position only, base up or down is okay. 

They're open rated, so run 'em bare! 

Color Rendering Index of 92-93; they're like sunlight, very natural, great pics. 

If you want better lighting for vertical, I'll be able to help you in a few months; I'm working on a purpose built LED panel, hee hee...

Other than that, I don't think there's a better option, save probably the 315W LEC lights- but up front investment in those is steep compared to 860W CDM, especially on a watt for watt basis. I've seen great grows with T5, but it doesn't scale well. Plasma is a possibility, but isn't mature yet.

I like my 860W CDM. I'm pretty sure you would, too.


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## gulfcoastgrower (Aug 4, 2015)

Got a few babbys vegging you got a good link for vertical not shure how to start


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## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2015)

gulfcoastgrower said:


> Got a few babbys vegging you got a good link for vertical not shure how to start


Let them grow... up. It's easier than nearly everyone makes it out to be.


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## gulfcoastgrower (Aug 4, 2015)

Whats the advantages of rdwc to dwc ?


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## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2015)

gulfcoastgrower said:


> Whats the advantages of rdwc to dwc ?


Never ran DWC. In in my RDWC, aeration is done automatically (that means no stones, lines or airpump) and there's only one set of pH and EC numbers to watch. And I only need to check and adjust once a day.


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