# How does religfious belief carry on ?



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

How does religious belief carry on when every argument arrives at the same point ? ..........prove your god exists ? And then the argument simply gets side tracked , if any god existed it would be simple to prove , 
if someone has one single piece of evidence a god exists then lets see it , other wise its belief without evidence , wich is absolute obsurdity,this major point gets brushed aside but i wont let it go .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

Ps .. Im gonna keep up with this thread and reply to everything answerd all my other threads i lost track of .


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

...I'll bite 

Dude, "in our image" is male and female. At the heart of people is a heart. At the heart of a 'solar' system is a sun. Both are responsible for life. This is the part where real simple math comes into play.

...I'll give you the answer: 4

*this doesn't mean it has to be simple for you or anyone else.


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## laced23z (Dec 2, 2011)

weak minded people live off of faith thats how its still around


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

laced23z said:


> weak minded people live off of faith thats how its still around


...define faith.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I'll bite
> 
> Dude, "in our image" is male and female. At the heart of people is a heart. At the heart of a 'solar' system is a sun. Both are responsible for life. This is the part where real simple math comes into play.
> 
> ...


total bullshit dude


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

what happens when our sun dies out like the millions that have before us ? will your god rescue us ?


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> total bullshit dude


...prove it - really. I'm not being a dck, but prove it. How is that bullsht to you? Give me more than 3 words to explain, please.

*I'm looking for a conversation with you about this. Not the usual "it's BS" and all that.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

well you make a statement without any evidence to back it up , i could claim big foot exists cause ive seen him , does that make him exist cause ive personaly seen him ? , you claim at the heart of people is a heart ? wtf does that even mean ? 
unless you can come up with one single piece of evidence your god exists then its fictional ? please i challenge you , come up wioth just one piece of evidence your god exists then ill leave you alone .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...prove it - really. I'm not being a dck, but prove it. How is that bullsht to you? Give me more than 3 words to explain, please.
> 
> *I'm looking for a conversation with you about this. Not the usual "it's BS" and all that.


whaT YOU WANT ME TO PROVE I DONT BELIEVE IN YOUR GOD ?


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## laced23z (Dec 2, 2011)

Faith=belief that is not based on proof


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> well you make a statement without any evidence to back it up , i could claim big foot exists cause ive seen him , does that make him exist cause ive personaly seen him ? , you claim at the heart of people is a heart ? wtf does that even mean ?
> unless you can come up with one single piece of evidence your god exists then its fictional ? please i challenge you , come up wioth just one piece of evidence your god exists then ill leave you alone .


I'm quoting from scripture. Since I can hold a book in my hand (thanks, science!) I can tell you that the words are printed, and I can see them. Moreover, I can 'see' them.

If we did not have a heart, we would be dead. If our galaxy did not have a sun, we would not have a galaxy to live in. The sun is the material manifestation of a 'son' in principle.

Furthermore, I wouldn't want you to 'leave me alone'. There is value in these discussions.


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

laced23z said:


> Faith=belief that is not based on proof


...it's based on learning how to properly manage your god-given ability to procreate. 'Taming the dragon' looks like a promising thing to do. I ask you, what is the most potent creative force in the universe for humans? Yep, making humans.


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> what happens when our sun dies out like the millions that have before us ? will your god rescue us ?


...would you??


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> I'm quoting from scripture. Since I can hold a book in my hand (thanks, science!) I can tell you that the words are printed, and I can see them. Moreover, I can 'see' them.
> 
> If we did not have a heart, we would be dead. If our galaxy did not have a sun, we would not have a galaxy to live in. The sun is the material manifestation of a 'son' in principle.DUDE THAT SUN YOU TALK ABOUT IS NOT SPECIAL THERE ARE MILLIONS OF
> SUNS WE OBSERBE EVERYDAY THAT BURN OUT AND DISAPEAR OUR SUN HAS NO6T VERY LONG LEFT , IT WILL DISAPEAR ALONG WITH OUR SO CALLED SOLAR SYSTEM IN A SPEC OF DUST L YOU REALISE WHEN YOU LOOOK AT EARTH WE ARE AN ISIGNIFICANT SPEC OF SAND WE ARE NOTHING SPECIAL , YOU ONLY HAVE TO LOOK AT EARTHS POSITION IN OUR OWN SOLAR SYSTEM TO SEE WE ARE NOTHING SPECIAL ,WE WILL CEASE TO EXIST VERY SOON .1 MILLION YEARS IS NOT ALONG TIME.
> ...


.DUDE THAT SUN YOU TALK ABOUT IS NOT SPECIAL THERE ARE MILLIONS OF 
SUNS WE OBSERBE EVERYDAY THAT BURN OUT AND DISAPEAR OUR SUN HAS NO6T VERY LONG LEFT , IT WILL DISAPEAR ALONG WITH OUR SO CALLED SOLAR SYSTEM IN A SPEC OF DUST L YOU REALISE WHEN YOU LOOOK AT EARTH WE ARE AN ISIGNIFICANT SPEC OF SAND WE ARE NOTHING SPECIAL , YOU ONLY HAVE TO LOOK AT EARTHS POSITION IN OUR OWN SOLAR SYSTEM TO SEE WE ARE NOTHING SPECIAL ,WE WILL CEASE TO EXIST VERY SOON .1 MILLION YEARS IS NOT ALONG TIME.

Furthermore, I wouldn't want you to 'leave me alone'. There is value in these discussions.[/QUOTE]


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## CEEJR (Dec 2, 2011)

Brainwashing started at a young age.


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> .DUDE THAT SUN YOU TALK ABOUT IS NOT SPECIAL THERE ARE MILLIONS OF
> SUNS WE OBSERBE EVERYDAY THAT BURN OUT AND DISAPEAR OUR SUN HAS NO6T VERY LONG LEFT , IT WILL DISAPEAR ALONG WITH OUR SO CALLED SOLAR SYSTEM IN A SPEC OF DUST L YOU REALISE WHEN YOU LOOOK AT EARTH WE ARE AN ISIGNIFICANT SPEC OF SAND WE ARE NOTHING SPECIAL , YOU ONLY HAVE TO LOOK AT EARTHS POSITION IN OUR OWN SOLAR SYSTEM TO SEE WE ARE NOTHING SPECIAL ,WE WILL CEASE TO EXIST VERY SOON .1 MILLION YEARS IS NOT ALONG TIME.
> 
> Furthermore, I wouldn't want you to 'leave me alone'. There is value in these discussions.


[/QUOTE]

...so the thing that makes life possible is nothing special?


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## trichome fiend (Dec 2, 2011)

[youtube]qCqTH5MtUu4[/youtube]


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

...'order' all the chaos you want. It's free.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

...so the thing that makes life possible is nothing special?[/QUOTE]
WE ARE NOTHING SPECIAL DUDE , WHAT MAKES YOU THINK LIFE HERE IS SPECIAL ?


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> ...so the thing that makes life possible is nothing special?


 WE ARE NOTHING SPECIAL DUDE , WHAT MAKES YOU THINK LIFE HERE IS SPECIAL ?[/QUOTE]

...MY DAUGHTER, for one  Your statement basically says that she should be nothing special. Is that correct? Don't you have a child of your own?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

I can tell the person arguing with me is a typical american teen ager , who has never ever given religionn a second thought he is religious and will defend said religion with fists lol ..


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> I can tell the person arguing with me is a typical american teen ager , who has never ever given religionn a second thought he is religious and will defend said religion with fists lol ..


...sorry, but, is this directed at me?


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## jimmyjay (Dec 2, 2011)

when the theory of evalution is no longer a theory. it will hold more sway i will hold on to my theory that i was created your aguing a point of veiw not facts neither side has the ability to disprove the other so this thread and all the others like it are just a way to bring up your feelings if you realy are comfortable in your opinions than why start such nonsence


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> WE ARE NOTHING SPECIAL DUDE , WHAT MAKES YOU THINK LIFE HERE IS SPECIAL ?


...MY DAUGHTER, for one  Your statement basically says that she should be nothing special. Is that correct? Don't you have a child of your own?[/QUOTE]
I have a 8 year old daughter that id kill you for , dosent mean we have anything special here , we are a spec of sand in the desert dude , look aT TECHNOLOGY WE ARE NOTHING WE ARE A TINY GRAIN OF SAND IN THE DESERT , ONE DAY SOON OUR SUN WILL DIE OUT , ALL YHIS BULLSHIT WILL DIE , AND OIT WONT MATTER ,


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

jimmyjay said:


> when the theory of evalution is no longer a theory i will hold on to my theory your aguing a point of veiw not facts neither side has the ability to disprove the other so this thread and all the others like it are just a way to bring up your feelings if you realy are comfortable in your opinions than why start such nonsence


...belief is not blind, as most would describe.


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> ...MY DAUGHTER, for one  Your statement basically says that she should be nothing special. Is that correct? Don't you have a child of your own?


I have a 8 year old daughter *that id kill you for* , dosent mean we have anything special here , we are a spec of sand in the desert dude , look aT TECHNOLOGY WE ARE NOTHING WE ARE A TINY GRAIN OF SAND IN THE DESERT , ONE DAY SOON OUR SUN WILL DIE OUT , ALL YHIS BULLSHIT WILL DIE , AND OIT WONT MATTER ,[/QUOTE]



-------

...dude, you're crossing lines. I should point out your last post about how defending with fists was SOP for some. I'll ask that you not write that again, please.


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## jimmyjay (Dec 2, 2011)

i believe in god but that is my choice i have my reason


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

Still not one scrap of evidence a god exists ...........rubs chinny chin chinn


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

Still no evidence ................dances


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> Still not one scrap of evidence a god exists ...........rubs chinny chin chinn


...still not one scrap of evidence that you can write something other than 'still not one scrap of evidence'.

"jinny-jinn-jinn"


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

Here you go eyeexagerate , give one example of why or how your god exists ? You got 30 mins


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

What you cant do it ?


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## jimmyjay (Dec 2, 2011)

(theory = educated guess )= (evolution = theory)


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> Here you go eyeexagerate , give one example of why or how your god exists ? You got 30 mins


...life. Period. Go and make 1 original life containing cell. You got eternity.


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## jimmyjay (Dec 2, 2011)

so in a sence you complain that creationest are wrong for believing without fact but you can? you are no def than what bothers u


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## tip top toker (Dec 2, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...belief is not blind


Nope, but the believers sure as hell are 

I always love the idea that your god is the true god, the one god, but the whole idea is based on unprovable belief, yet anyone who believes in an alternative god or religion is WRONG. It's hard not to choke on the stupidity.


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## jimmyjay (Dec 2, 2011)

tip top toker said:


> Nope, but the believers sure as hell are


that is a sad but true statment


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

tip top toker said:


> Nope, but the believers sure as hell are


...belief is not blind, "round round we go - round round we go"


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## tip top toker (Dec 2, 2011)

Belief and believers are different things  good you spotted that


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

tip top toker said:


> Nope, but the believers sure as hell are
> 
> I always love the idea that your god is the true god, the one god, but the whole idea is based on unprovable belief, yet anyone who believes in an alternative god or religion is WRONG. It's hard not to choke on the stupidity.


...catholic means 'universal'. An den?

All gods are the true gods. That is what is meant by that. Gotta love context, eh? 

*the god-image changes.

*I should point out also that I really don't care if you believe or not. I wouldn't slag you for choosing a path of your own. I'm sure it's what we're supposed to do.

Start an atheist thread and watch how many 'religious' types run over there to point out how fucking stupid they are for believing in the opposite of believing.


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## jimmyjay (Dec 2, 2011)

bare with me for this crude analogy legalization of bud is damaged by smokers 
as
beilef in god is damaged by belivers
lol


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## tip top toker (Dec 2, 2011)

Yet the bible speaks of one god, the son and the holy spirit. Where have you arrived at multiple gods? Their belief is that there is one God, not elephants with arms. You are here trying to claim that the bible is wrong without any proof  Which come full circle makes you a what now?


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

tip top toker said:


> Yet the bible speaks of one god, the son and the holy spirit. Where have you arrived at multiple gods? Their belief is that there is one God, not elephants with arms. You are here trying to claim that the bible is wrong without any proof  Which come full circle makes you a what now?


Anthropomorphisation. Each culture has its way of describing the same source. And, I am not here trying to claim the bible is 'wrong'. Why does 'one god' mean that it is particular to catholicism?

"makes you a what now?" ...hmm, a person who believes in something greater than what I can 'see'.


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

..."love" will always be. It is a constant. I looooove sites like nasa and others. I find quotes like this on them "well, we didn't expect that it could ever happen". So don't act so sure. I am acting in a 'sure' way because I know that some things are inexhaustible. ETERNAL. Those are the things I place my faith upon.


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## olylifter420 (Dec 2, 2011)

what the hell is the point of your stupid threads?

you ask anyone to respond and bump your stupid thread, then someone replies, and you answer with ," total bullshit" well, man, fuck you!!!!

im done engaging with your stupid kind... you are the true definition of an idiot and asshole...

religious belief carries on in your ass dickhead...

the more you want to get rid of it, the more you are inundated with it dipshit... 





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> How does religious belief carry on when every argument arrives at the same point ? ..........prove your god exists ? And then the argument simply gets side tracked , if any god existed it would be simple to prove ,
> if someone has one single piece of evidence a god exists then lets see it , other wise its belief without evidence , wich is absolute obsurdity,this major point gets brushed aside but i wont let it go .


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## olylifter420 (Dec 2, 2011)

[video=youtube;HjeqE7DZcsw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjeqE7DZcsw&feature=related[/video]

awesome


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## olylifter420 (Dec 2, 2011)

[video=youtube;NUNLfdWVVX0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUNLfdWVVX0&feature=related[/video]

thats my boy


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## olylifter420 (Dec 2, 2011)

[video=youtube;Dfx3lxEd0pE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dfx3lxEd0pE[/video]

pretty cool racing...


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> [video=youtube;NUNLfdWVVX0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUNLfdWVVX0&feature=related[/video]
> 
> thats my boy


...he would have been 'out' on a drag strip for hitting the center line at 1:36  But nice truck though *nods*


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## olylifter420 (Dec 2, 2011)

yea, i saw that and its a bit dangerous if you doing 185!!!!!

on the drag, in that truck he is doing low 8's if not high 7's...

that fucking truck is the shit dude... the owner is my best friends bro and nobody has been able to beat him on that truck since like 09" or so...

nice vettes, but they cant keep up...




eye exaggerate said:


> ...he would have been 'out' on a drag strip for hitting the center line at 1:36  But nice truck though *nods*


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> yea, i saw that and its a bit dangerous if you doing 185!!!!!
> 
> on the drag, in that truck he is doing low 8's if not high 7's...
> 
> ...


...my group of friends slowed down after "m" spilled his vette at 149. Not good. He's alive, but is pretty well bound to a chair and drools a fair bit. Most of us are lucky to be alive after some of the sht we did - and we maxed out somewhere around 400 horses! But, that was back in the 90's. I was in a '69 mach 1 (C4 - Windsor .20 over 12:1 med. cam) - totally not related to Sat's post!


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> what the hell is the point of your stupid threads?
> 
> you ask anyone to respond and bump your stupid thread, then someone replies, and you answer with ," total bullshit" well, man, fuck you!!!!
> 
> ...


 dont get jupset dude , just give the reasons your god is real .............oh sorry you cant ....boo fuckin hooooo


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## olylifter420 (Dec 2, 2011)

i dont care about tsh thread... it makes no sense that he continues to make threads about the same thing and no mod does anything... so i thought i would troll his dumbass threads... and the toke and talk is filled with people that are just waiting to post stupid shit on a serious thread...


anyways, getting back on topic... that 69'mach sounds sweet man... i bet it was black with white racing stripes... 400horses is a lot, but this guy is pushing 1000+ to the rear wheel.... my dream truck is that ford lightning man, if you have ever driven one, it is an awesome trip... smoking a jay going to school and passing everyone doing 130... back in high school though, nowadays, i aint that dumb lol...

that sucks for your friend man, must of been paralyzed or something for such motor lose...




eye exaggerate said:


> ...my group of friends slowed down after "m" spilled his vette at 149. Not good. He's alive, but is pretty well bound to a chair and drools a fair bit. Most of us are lucky to be alive after some of the sht we did - and we maxed out somewhere around 400 horses! But, that was back in the 90's. I was in a '69 mach 1 (C4 - Windsor .20 over 12:1 med. cam) - totally not related to Sat's post!


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

olly can post vids , but lets get back to the threads origin no evidence for ones god lol


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

why cant we keep it simple ?


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## olylifter420 (Dec 2, 2011)

lol, like i needed you permission douche bag...

[video=youtube;SPAEtMwUI3Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPAEtMwUI3Q&feature=related[/video]




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> olly can post vids , but lets get back to the threads origin no evidence for ones god lol


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## olylifter420 (Dec 2, 2011)

haha, a simpleton is asking to keep things simple, lol...lol... at this...lol...




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> why cant we keep it simple ?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

lots of bullshit but no evidence posted yet .........i shall wait


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## olylifter420 (Dec 2, 2011)

you can keep waiting cause you know damn straight that what you are asking is impossible and possible at the same time... dichotomy if you will, if you know what that is...

either way, i will leave the beast alone




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lots of bullshit but no evidence posted yet .........i shall wait


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

as an athiest ive heard your claims of a god yet im not convinced of anything you type , please type your evidence of a god existing


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> you can keep waiting cause you know damn straight that what you are asking is impossible and possible at the same time... dichotomy if you will, if you know what that is...
> 
> either way, i will leave the beast alone


 you believe in something yet you have no evidence of that something even existing ?


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> i dont care about tsh thread... it makes no sense that he continues to make threads about the same thing and no mod does anything... so i thought i would troll his dumbass threads... and the toke and talk is filled with people that are just waiting to post stupid shit on a serious thread...
> 
> 
> anyways, getting back on topic... that 69'mach sounds sweet man... i bet it was black with white racing stripes... 400horses is a lot, but this guy is pushing 1000+ to the rear wheel.... my dream truck is that ford lightning man, if you have ever driven one, it is an awesome trip... smoking a jay going to school and passing everyone doing 130... back in high school though, nowadays, i aint that dumb lol...
> ...


...he landed a good 30 yards ahead of the car without a visible scratch on him. All head injury, possibly from taking out the targa top on his way out (snapped the steering column too). According to the RC's, the car traveled 1/2 a kilometer before stopping. Other friend in the car was thrown out and landed on the shoulder of the highway. Good for some skin grafting, but otherwise walking and normal. When I got to the scene, the car was still running. Long time ago so it's easier to talk about.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

i caN SEE YOU DRIVING THAT TRUCK OLLY , JUST THE SAME AS I SEE YOU DRIVIN THE JESUS BUS


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

Im not going to lrt you steer that bus away from the main topic of , prove your god exists


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## olylifter420 (Dec 2, 2011)

Children are as children do


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## MixedMelodyMindBender (Dec 2, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> you believe in something yet you have no evidence of that something even existing ?


So the inability to prove the actual existence of any God is proof enough that there is not one? Rather short and close minded. 

Atheism is often noted for being close minded. Religion is a blind faith. But the very existence of a god is not a matter of religion. 

You should ponder and question everything anyone tells you. DONT BELIEVE ANYTHING I HAVE SAID.....THINK FOR YOURSELF  

Food For Though : Without the actual existence of a god, how does a human create such a thing? Such a unimaginable thing to conceive if there was indeed no possibility of a God whatsoever?? Even as a believer in GOD I still consider the possibility that I could be wrong. Your close mindedness shows in your biasness to only created someones faith if they can actual prove their higher power's existence. What would be the point of a higher power/God if you could easily prove him to anyone at anypoint. Doesnt sound like a God or higher power to me. 

All the proof in the world still does not stand as a concrete answer that he does not exist. I would imagine if one did exist it would be well beyond the means of any human proving ...regardless of means. 

Finding god is something you must do on your own in my eyes. IMVHO Hes not in a book, nor a piece of history, nor any scientific calculation. Hes in your heart, your soul homie! Hard to prove something you can't see but may be able to feel. There is a reason for this. Anything from the flesh inwards is created by God. It's his jurisdiction and residence. Regardless of what any government may think. 

Lastly , and to wrap this all into one focus. The point of this thread was to ask how does religious belief carry on? Well, logic would say that if there was absolute definition in a God not being a real entity that many would lose the faith and eventual faith in a god would die out. However, Im more likely to think god works in the upmost mysterious and complex was that no human can ever compute. Its beyond our compacity as a species to prove who designed/created us. 

And for clarification I was raised a Jew but have not followed the faith since not being forced to. Religion tends to be a thing of tradition for most and my upbringing was no difference. Similar to subcool for example, I say I am NOT a religious person, but I am a very Spiritual person, and YES I DO believe IN A GOD  

Happy Smoking-Blessings Irie!


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

lets have some veiws from a real christian , i dont count olly as a true christian as he distances himself from the bible and everything a proper christian believes in.
its to easy for him to claim to be a christian yet distance himself from what real christians believe in , its an easy scape goat


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## olylifter420 (Dec 2, 2011)

Children do as children are


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## Heisenberg (Dec 2, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lets have some veiws from a real christian , i dont count olly as a true christian as he distances himself from the bible and everything a proper christian believes in.
> its to easy for him to claim to be a christian yet distance himself from what real christians believe in , its an easy scape goat


Translation: Dealing with real people and their nuanced beliefs is too hard. Lets hear from a fundie who comes across as an idiot so I can sling my usual mud instead of having to actually think about my answers.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Translation: Dealing with real people and their nuanced beliefs is too hard. Lets hear from a fundie who comes across as an idiot so I can sling my usual mud instead of having to actually think about my answers.


 lol coming from a hypocrite like you lol just cause you use long drawn out posts to make your point dosent make you any better . ive allready posted a previous long drawn out thread from you mocking olly , you seem to think mocking someone isnt so bad if you do it more interlectualy but i simply cant be botherd to construct those kind of posts id rather just get right on down to the point .


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## Heisenberg (Dec 2, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lol coming from a hypocrite like you lol just cause you use long drawn out posts to make your point dosent make you any better . ive allready posted a previous long drawn out thread from you mocking olly , you seem to think mocking someone isnt so bad if you do it more interlectualy but i simply cant be botherd to construct those kind of posts id rather just get right on down to the point .


My point was not that it's okay to intellectually mock someone, but that an intellectual could see I was mocking behavior, not beliefs. I was mocking oly's behavior in the same way, and for the same reason, as I mock yours. Quite frankly, it begs to be mocked. You are the polar opposite of a fundie, running around certain that your views are right and eager to belittle those who see it differently. You hide behind a pretense of reason, when you are unable to reasonably explain anything yourself, and have openly admitted to trolling. You want to simply regurgitate rebuttals you have heard from Hitchens and the like, but are unable to dynamically utilize your views to roll with the punches, so you fall back on insults and flaming. This behavior seems odd to reasonable people which is why we speak out about it. It serves to erode the atheistic stance in the same way fundamentalism is detrimental to the religious stance.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

actually my point is simple and no one has yet to come up with anything that is worth a decent response to .............if you believe in a god prove it exists ............you dont have to answer and you dont have to respond its simply a challenge im putting forward ,


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> My point was not that it's okay to intellectually mock someone, but that an intellectual could see I was mocking behavior, not beliefs. I was mocking oly's behavior in the same way, and for the same reason, as I mock yours. Quite frankly, it begs to be mocked. You are the polar opposite of a fundie, running around certain that your views are right and eager to belittle those who see it differently. You hide behind a pretense of reason, when you are unable to reasonably explain anything yourself, and have openly admitted to trolling. You want to simply regurgitate rebuttals you have heard from Hitchens and the like, but are unable to dynamically utilize your views to roll with the punches, so you fall back on insults and flaming. This behavior seems odd to reasonable people which is why we speak out about it. It serves to erode the atheistic stance in the same way fundamentalism is detrimental to the religious stance.


 athiesm cant be eroded its a personal response to someones claim, its not a group or gathering of people , you could say im eroding my own athiestic stance but you cant say, im eroding 'the ' athiestic stance .
and im yet to meet someone here who has said anything to me i havent easily replied to .


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## olylifter420 (Dec 2, 2011)

[Nobody fucking likes you dude, dont you get it?

You think you are so cool in your small simple world..

You bring nothing worth discussing and you expect everyone to respond. You are a douche bag, so what, we aint bothering you cause of it, its just you are petty and foolish and not worth engaging interlectualy, lol i mean INTELLECTUALLY

How tall are you dude?

And why dont you take heis's advice?

You would probably get sympathy from someone willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

QUOTE=ThE sAtIvA hIgH;6717652]actually my point is simple and no one has yet to come up with anything that is worth a decent response to .............if you believe in a god prove it exists ............you dont have to answer and you dont have to respond its simply a challenge im putting forward ,[/QUOTE]


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## olylifter420 (Dec 2, 2011)

At least you know how to copy and paste, lol...lol...lol





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> athiesm cant be eroded its a personal response to someones claim, its not a group or gathering of people , you could say im eroding my own athiestic stance but you cant say, im eroding 'the ' athiestic stance .
> and im yet to meet someone here who has said anything to me i havent easily replied to .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

Hi olly , anything good to say today or the usual hate filled nonsense ?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

Lol at 'nobody likes you ' lol my kitten likes me .AWWWW AND I STILL LOVE YOU OLLY


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## Heisenberg (Dec 2, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> athiesm cant be eroded its a personal response to someones claim, its not a group or gathering of people , you could say im eroding my own athiestic stance but you cant say, im eroding 'the ' athiestic stance .
> and im yet to meet someone here who has said anything to me i havent easily replied to .


You made a deceptive thread asking why religious beliefs persist. If you were really interested in an answer you would investigate and attempt to be unbiased. You would have a real desire to seek the information. Instead, this is just another thread designed to entrap believers into answering one narrow question so that you can be in the position to feel superior. You act as if most people who believe in God claim there is evidence, when in fact the bible itself addresses this issue with faith. Your question of proof is really only useful on the level of Sunday school, and is in fact quite easily answered in the mind of a believer.

Why is it important to have evidence for beliefs? Why is someone not entitled to decide god exists, despite lack of evidence? Why does someone have a responsibility to question what they believe? These are the serious questions that come up when we examine proof of god, and these are the angles which will cause a believer to doubt. Do you feel your few lines of diatribe thrown at these serious issues have done a good job of making a difference in these threads? Why do you expect religious people to provide you with answers you could find on your own, when you use links or videos to do your articulation for you? Why should they take the time to research your stance when you only take the time to mock theirs? The answer is of course that your interest is mental masturbation in front of an audience, which is a problem that is compounded by your pretense of progress.

You make a mockery of atheism just as a fundamentalists makes a mockery of theism. There is no reason, substance or intellect involved in your behavior, just childish mud slinging. Just because you figured out Jesus doesn't exist doesn't mean that it's okay to be a petty superficial prick.


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## diesel15 (Dec 2, 2011)

Every man has free will to follow what he wants, and the thing isee in churches is that some peopl think their men and women of God because they read the bible and go to church, and they proclaim the word of God to people and tell them of God and this is where the issue comes into play, because they have no faith. you see, God is not in the flesh like we humans are, therefor we cant know him from a earthly standpoint. its in the spirit through faith that we believe in God, not in the flesh. In the flesh we feel we have no need/want of Jesus, we want to do our own thing, so we cast him aside and lead our own lives, but this seperates us from him more and more and eventually we stop seekin him and eventually stop believin the word of God. Through faith in spirit you believe in God and know and have undeniable evidence of God. An earthly man wont understand this.. You seekin God in a way you wont never find him.


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## MixedMelodyMindBender (Dec 2, 2011)

I am with heisenberg's thinking on this one. I am not convinced he was sincere in asking the question he did. My conclusion is he started this thread to ploy and troll the hell out of faith based people. He has no interest what so ever as to why religion has persisted. Correct me if I am wrong, But I believe the majority of this thread has nothing to do with what was original asked. Happens more time than not on these kind of forum. Classless Sativa, and dishonorable. Religion people don't troll you non believers, so its WHO of U to return the equal!

Not that you deserve it, but some food for thought. Take a look at the sky at night and tell me what you see. And I will call you A LIAR cause you CANT prove THERE ACTUAL PHYSICAL EXSISTENCE. 

You are obviously looking for faith in something. Faith in something you can physically touch would'nt be a faith at all. The single most critical aspect of ANY GoD is based around ABSOLUTE BELIEF in said GOD. You say you set a Challenge for anyone to prove his existence? Are they not all "higher powers" for a reason? In the christian faith, its well accepted that no man living or dead could ever nor will ever prove his being, other than when he walked his planet in the flesh. That is GODS JURISDICTION. He calls the shots of when, where, whom, why....Not the created, but the creator that runs the show. 

And for the last time, get this FACT THROUGH YOUR cellular wasteland known as a brain. JUST BECAUSE no human alive or dead, can prove his actual being ( to your standards of proof--which I am sure are askew and illogical ) ,DOES NOT IN ANY FASHION FORM OR MANNER DEDUCE THERE IS NO GOD. Just because you can't prove something in life does not mean its not valid or true. You cant see the air you breath to keep your retarded arse alive, you cant touch it, taste it....yet you (may) know its there.( ever hear of the 12 wonders of the world--or the top 7 ancient religious artifacts that still stump scientist-creationist alike) 

So, to make this transparent as possible. Prove god does NOT exist.( Ill give ya the answer cause I know u will never get it correct) YOU CANT, PERIOD. Just as much as a faithful person can't prove the verca. Perhaps thats the means to end for you to find god. Which reminds me, we dont find god, god finds us. 

Lastly, The one thing I can say gives more prudence is that I can point in any direction for 360 degree's and say this is the creation of a creator. Not of A HUMAN( which has to be created in order to exist , they dont just pop in momma's belly without creation....THAT IS FOR SURE, A FACT! Moreso, I can point to the stars and say, out there is something, not nothingness. Science and basic mathematics proves its impossible to create anything from nothing. 0+/-0=0. You cant create something as vast as our universe ( which we have no idea how large it really is, or if there is even a way to calculate its capacity. ) from nothing. One of the first things the bible gets out the way off that bat is that before god, there was nothing. Simple  Since god or an unknown date in which "everything just happened", there is more than the human mind can conceive! 

More so, I can proclaim with substantial history that the kingdom of god is within those stars. Moreso, I can prove that in human history it has been noted and recorded by millions of people that Jesus Christ, of Nazareth did indeed walk the face of this planet. Its hard to get around that one faithless. Moreso, he's the ONLY person to EVER PROCLAIM EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS PROCLAIMING. Odd eh? He even proclaimed his timed death. He predicted the future, he performed miracles that still happen every single second of every day. If you are yet to see birth, you would know that offspring are true miracles. You think billions and trillions of microscopic atoms and cells just became smart one day and decided to start forming together to form tissue, then muscle, then organs? For both humans and non humans alike. We are huge complex miracles that don't just happen. We must be created in order to have life on earth. The proof is in the pudding of our very being. Even Your scourge was CREATED...DIDNT JUST HAPPEN....Sadly Momma and Daddy did it, and created you. I would imagine a GOD is the designer and the creator of the ones now recreating. If you ever read of how truely complex DNA and RNA are, you would know that things of that complexity are impossible to "just happen" the probability of that are beyond computing, you are far more likely to be able to predict the exact second of your death(suicide does not count)...which has'nt been done yet, unless you count Jesus. ...if you study dna, you will see that every last atom, every last cell, had a ton of thought, design, and effort put into it, by something far greater than us mere humans. There is so complex of an intellectual design with the very fabric of each human being that it would be impossible for us to be what we are today without intellectual design in our DNA composition.......that seems more logical than oohh ya know some things were zoomin around in outter space one day and just by chance whamo everything just happened ,earth was born and we eventually flew out of apes and monkey Im thinking and ah ya....so here ya are  

There is nothing about our lives nor the universe that is able to be summed up as " well it-ya just happened kids"..Nothing within this universe will ever be so simple for a reason. God is obviously not a simple person. Hes GOD. God proclaimed one very crucial thing that so many people like yourself fail to see. And in this case it what he did'nt say that carries the most power. He proclaimed he HAS A PURPOSE. He did not say it would be a purpose we are aware of or would understand. He said to trust him. Thats it. And in a world so full of "nothingness" what would you have to lose to have even the smallest amount of faith. Its through a God that all things are possible...evil, pain, suffering, disease, creation, destruction and anything under or beyond the sun!


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Dec 3, 2011)

*"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours"*


I don't mind people believing in God, as long as they realize that's all it is, a belief. I had some idiotic Christian woman tell me that it was my "opinion" that god didnt' exist, after she'd said "i dont know" when I asked her if there was actual evidence of him. Well no... it's not my opinion... it's science and logic. If there's no evidence of it, it's blind faith, called blind for a reason. Which is ok of course, I mean I can believe in unicorns if I want I guess; but to act like science is an opinion is really offensive to me.


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## BA142 (Dec 3, 2011)

In 1000 years Religion will be a thing of the past.

I'm ashamed to live in such a religious country....Europe is starting to figure it out.


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## stealthman08 (Dec 3, 2011)

BA142 said:


> In 1000 years Religion will be a thing of the past.
> 
> I'm ashamed to live in such a religious country....Europe is starting to figure it out.


Then leave and go to Europe.... I mean how easy of a solution is that? EASY.


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Dec 3, 2011)

MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> Not that you deserve it, but some food for thought. Take a look at the sky at night and tell me what you see. And I will call you A LIAR cause you CANT prove THERE ACTUAL PHYSICAL EXSISTENCE.


clouds? science knows about. stars? science knows about. the moon? science took us there. whats your point?



MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> The single most critical aspect of ANY GoD is based around ABSOLUTE BELIEF in said GOD. You say you set a Challenge for anyone to prove his existence? Are they not all "higher powers" for a reason? In the christian faith, its well accepted that no man living or dead could ever nor will ever prove his being, other than when he walked his planet in the flesh. That is GODS JURISDICTION. He calls the shots of when, where, whom, why....Not the created, but the creator that runs the show.


Seems a bit odd that an almighty supreme being chooses to hide away. Although that makes sense I suppose, as then he doesnt need to take responsibility or accountability for any of the atrocities that go on in the world. Absolute belief as you put it, should best be reserved for things we know about. I have absolute belief that tomorrow the sun will rise and then it will set, I don't have absolute or indeed any belief in something which sounds like the creation from man in order to control people.



MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> And for the last time, get this FACT THROUGH YOUR cellular wasteland known as a brain. JUST BECAUSE no human alive or dead, can prove his actual being ( to your standards of proof--which I am sure are askew and illogical ) ,DOES NOT IN ANY FASHION FORM OR MANNER DEDUCE THERE IS NO GOD.


Yes, but is that really your argument for basing your entire lifelong belief? That nobody can prove otherwise? That seems pretty flawed and redundant to be honest. So i'm gonna pray to a giant imaginary penis in the sky because nobody can tell me hes not there? That sounds like a child putting his fingers in his ears and going lalalala im not listening.



MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> Just because you can't prove something in life does not mean its not valid or true. You cant see the air you breath to keep your retarded arse alive, you cant touch it, taste it....yet you (may) know its there.( ever hear of the 12 wonders of the world--or the top 7 ancient religious artifacts that still stump scientist-creationist alike)


Yes we 'know' its there, but not because of a hunch........... slight difference is we know that it contains 78 percent co2 and 20 percent oxygen. You cant even tell me whether god has a beard or not.



MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> So, to make this transparent as possible. Prove god does NOT exist.( Ill give ya the answer cause I know u will never get it correct) YOU CANT, PERIOD.


Ok, but again - why would we need to prove something doesn't exist, when the omen of proof is on you? If you tell me something exists, I say ok, prove it to me. Agnostic Atheism is being able to say "I don't know" but being pretty positive there is no god. Sure, we dont know, but theres about a 1 in 10000000000 chance he is real considering all the possibilities of whats really out there.



MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> You cant create something as vast as our universe ( which we have no idea how large it really is, or if there is even a way to calculate its capacity. ) from nothing. One of the first things the bible gets out the way off that bat is that before god, there was nothing. Simple


So you basically just managed to undermine your own argument in two sentences. If 'something' cant come from 'nothing', then how on earth does "supreme god" come outta nowhere? Did he take the magic taxi straight from oblivion going towards something?



MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> More so, I can proclaim with substantial history that the kingdom of god is within those stars. Moreso, *I can prove that in human history it has been noted and recorded by millions of people that Jesus Christ, of Nazareth did indeed walk the face of this planet.*


ok thats a big claim, I for one would like to see this evidence that jesus existed and the millions that recorded it, lol.



MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> He even proclaimed his timed death. He predicted the future, he performed miracles that still happen every single second of every day. If you are yet to see birth, you would know that offspring are true miracles.


According to what, the Bible? That was written by people who sacrificed cows and didnt know what an atom was? Come now.



MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> You think billions and trillions of microscopic atoms and cells just became smart one day and decided to start forming together to form tissue, then muscle, then organs? For both humans and non humans alike. We are huge complex miracles that don't just happen. We must be created in order to have life on earth. The proof is in the pudding of our very being. Even Your scourge was CREATED...DIDNT JUST HAPPEN....Sadly Momma and Daddy did it, and created you. I would imagine a GOD is the designer and the creator of the ones now recreating. If you ever read of how truely complex DNA and RNA are, you would know that things of that complexity are impossible to "just happen" the probability of that are beyond computing, you are far more likely to be able to predict the exact second of your death(suicide does not count)...which has'nt been done yet, unless you count Jesus. ...if you study dna, you will see that every last atom, every last cell, had a ton of thought, design, and effort put into it, by something far greater than us mere humans. There is so complex of an intellectual design with the very fabric of each human being that it would be impossible for us to be what we are today without intellectual design in our DNA composition.......that seems more logical than oohh ya know some things were zoomin around in outter space one day and just by chance whamo everything just happened ,earth was born and we eventually flew out of apes and monkey Im thinking and ah ya....so here ya are



Oh dear just as it was going so well you get onto Intelligent Design. I don't know where to begin with this one really. 

What makes me laugh is when Christians talk of Intelligent Design, they do it whilst mocking the *THEORY* of the big bang. As if those scientists are absolute morons for believing in it. Then they go on to say a much more likely occurence is that a magical man in the sky, that also came out of nothing, created it all in 6 days, THEN TOOK A BREAK BECAUSE HE WAS FUCKING TIRED? HAHA! No, that's really good. I'm not saying I believe in the Big Bang because it's a theory, i'm just saying id probably rather believe in anything rather than that fucking story. 

Intelligent Design is nothing but another attempt to make God seem more human-like. If 'god' was real, do you think he would have arms, legs and a beard? I mean cmon. Next youre gonna give me the one about the banana being SO PERFECTLY MADE it must have been by a designer hahaha. What about grapefruits? Yeah they're so ergonomic too.

tl;dr


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## ChronicObsession (Feb 2, 2012)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> How does religious belief carry on when every argument arrives at the same point ? ..........prove your god exists ? And then the argument simply gets side tracked , if any god existed it would be simple to prove ,
> if someone has one single piece of evidence a god exists then lets see it , other wise its belief without evidence , wich is absolute obsurdity,this major point gets brushed aside but i wont let it go .


I still haven't seen any hard evidence that our planet just exploded into existance. By the way, did you join RIU just to talk about and against religion? Are those nutes in your avatar just a guise to coverup the fact that you are an antichrist troll that makes pennies on the hour for laying layers and layers of hot B.S. on the religious community? Show us exactly how mankind came out of a lizard that came out of the ocean that came out of a 1 cell organism. My only mistake is expecting a solid answer. Goodbye


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## ChronicObsession (Feb 2, 2012)

WeedKillsBrainCells said:


> clouds? science knows about. stars? science knows about. the moon? science took us there. whats your point?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh great, another empirical study on how God doesn't exist. You win the Internet!

Did you go to the school for the Insanely Retarded? You're brain is hazardous to society so please, put a diaper on your head.


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## smoothforyou2 (Feb 2, 2012)

im not religious or anything but if you actually look at the bible theres alot of wisdom in it any question you have in life is pretty much there and thats a fact. try and read it and if you dont understand ask a preacher they can explain it to you.


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## smoothforyou2 (Feb 2, 2012)

BA142 said:


> In 1000 years Religion will be a thing of the past.
> 
> I'm ashamed to live in such a religious country....Europe is starting to figure it out.


what does religion hurt? if you have been to a good church you can feel what the pastor is saying imagine the land and chaos without it.


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## ChronicObsession (Feb 2, 2012)

Problem is Smooth, the kids are too afraid of Preachers thanks to the Satanic News Media that reported on all those pedophilic acts that happened in the church. The fools here don't want to get butthurt, so they instead keep believing in nothingness or magical theories of B.S. so that they can say Fuck You to those that believe in anything other than what they want us to believe in. They think pretending is the same thing as having spirit in something. These are the same dumbasses that confused school spirit with just pretending. Obviously kids, you need to go back to sunday school


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## ChronicObsession (Feb 2, 2012)

smoothforyou2 said:


> what does religion hurt? if you have been to a good church you can feel what the pastor is saying imagine the land and chaos without it.


I think more chaos would come without having the police around. Dumbasses that believe an explosion and 1 cell organisms are our creator would convert into a bunch of bloodthirsty landpirates and rape and steal everything


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 2, 2012)

WeedKillsBrainCells said:


> clouds? science knows about. stars? science knows about. the moon? science took us there. whats your point?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



...so the light at the end of the tunnel for you is your mouth? You sir, are really quite arrogant.

"[...]they didn't even know what an atom was?"

If you are as smart as you'd like to 'believe', how the hell could you have such a hard time with that one.


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## Padawanbater2 (Feb 2, 2012)

ChronicObsession said:


> I think more chaos would come without having the police around. Dumbasses that believe an explosion and 1 cell organisms are our creator would convert into a bunch of bloodthirsty landpirates and rape and steal everything


Why don't I do that now? What would suddenly change inside my mind if I went from simply _believing_ there's no god to _knowing_ there's no god?


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## ChronicObsession (Feb 2, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Why don't I do that now? What would suddenly change inside my mind if I went from simply _believing_ there's no god to _knowing_ there's no god?


Well then pat yourself on the back, or your ass if you want, because you just did a real half-assed job on THOROUGHLY trying to discover such sad news. I believe you copied your results from someone that is twice as lazy as yourself


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Feb 3, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...so the light at the end of the tunnel for you is your mouth? You sir, are really quite arrogant.
> 
> "[...]they didn't even know what an atom was?"
> 
> If you are as smart as you'd like to 'believe', how the hell could you have such a hard time with that one.


What is your point? No I don't have a hard time believing they didn't know what an atom was, funnily enough that wasn't the point. The point was I find it hard believing Christians would take the word of people with none of the fundamental scientific knowledge that we have now, yet expect them to give them the answers for their whole entire existence. Then again science was always religions enemy, too many facts.



ChronicObsession said:


> I think more chaos would come without having the police around. Dumbasses that believe an explosion and 1 cell organisms are our creator would convert into a bunch of bloodthirsty landpirates and rape and steal everything


If you're talking about evolution it's probably best not to use hilarious words such as "creator", which conjure up lots of fairytale images of a bearded man with little human moulds. Personally i'd feel safer around people who dealt with the world as it was. Can you imagine what would happen if all those people who claimed to have seen the light and have angels talk to them suddenly had that ridiculous idea ripped out of them? It'd probably be enough to turn catholics into child rapists... oh wait.



ChronicObsession said:


> Well then pat yourself on the back, or your ass if you want, because you just did a real half-assed job on THOROUGHLY trying to discover such sad news. I believe you copied your results from someone that is twice as lazy as yourself


If you wanna see laziness try getting the entire rules for how you live your own life from a 3500 year old book. I don't actually need a book to tell me not to kill people, apparently some Christians are stupid enough to need that kinda guidance.


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## sso (Feb 3, 2012)

ah, who believes in religion?

not very bright people.

im tempted to say, "comon guys, stop fucking with the retards" but i wont , cause im nice lol.


"my parents believed in this book made up from quotes from the stoneage and thats why i do it, cause my parents are that wise"

"this dude in a black frock (driving a benz) told me to fear god and give him some money, so i did"

"i was really desperate to stop being a drunk and this was easier than keeping on knocking myself out by hitting my head on the wall repeatedly"


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## PbHash (Feb 3, 2012)

ChronicObsession said:


> I still haven't seen any hard evidence that our planet just exploded into existance. By the way, did you join RIU just to talk about and against religion? Are those nutes in your avatar just a guise to coverup the fact that you are an antichrist troll that makes pennies on the hour for laying layers and layers of hot B.S. on the religious community? Show us exactly how mankind came out of a lizard that came out of the ocean that came out of a 1 cell organism. My only mistake is expecting a solid answer. Goodbye


I really want to know if you have ever read about evolution or studied it. I don't think you have and I think you are too SCARED to. 

This is a great resource http://evolution.berkeley.edu/ I hope you take an honest look at it, if you don't then that's fine but you have decided to lie to and cheat yourself. Even if you still do not believe it, at least you will have the knowledge to make a decent argument other than "I still don't see evidence of fish and lizards coming out of the sea" and then attacking people (you think we can't see right through this? 1. It shows you are very uneducated about the theory. 2. You have no other way of defending your arguments except to insult someone.)

I can explain theories of what was before and how our universe formed, theories backed up by evidence. Yes there are still unanswered questions and these theories probably bring up more questions than it answers, but that's science. Now of we just stopped investigating and said "well shit! We don't have answers of what was before the ever expanding inflationary field that lead to our universe! Let's just say it's God." That would be lazy and unintelligent. Here you go: I wrote this on another thread but it applies here. It's a simplified version of a leading BBT. There is evidence to support this theory. it helps to explain the general uniformity of our universe such as uniform temp, energy, matter....This theory is also supported with mathematics.

Matter was not in an infinitely dense point, theory points more to matter being energy before the big bang. E=mc^2. I will explain.

Before our universe, and still today, there was/is an inflationary field containing extremely high energy levels, a uniform and constant POTIENTIAL energy, and negative pressure (therefore repulsive gravity). This field is similar to an electromagnetic field. You can't see it or feel it but you know it has energy because it does work. So now we have our inflationary field that has a very high potential energy and is expanding faster than the speed of light. How did the university come from this?

Any system with potential energy will exploit an opportunity to release it. This opportunity comes in the form of quantum uncertainty. Energy fields like all things in a quantum universe are subject to this. Quantum uncertainty among an energy field means the fields values will under quantum jitters or up and down fluctuations in it's value. This isn't seen in our everyday life because they are too small to notice. Yet with the incredible amount of energy harbored in the field, these fluctuations would be much larger. Simply put, one of these jitters would knock the field down it's potential energy curve. The resulting decrease in energy and negative pressure ends the encredible expanse.

Now this energy isn't lost, it is converted to matter. E=mc^2. This all happens in the order of about 10^-35 seconds. In thislook time the tiny area of potential energy would expand by a factor of about 10^30. What we have left is a region in space that is no longer expanding at the rate of the inflationary field, full of matter, uniform temp for example a Universe. 

Back to evolution. If evolution is not true you would have to believe that there was once 10x as many species on earth and 90% have died out leaving us with what we have today. Some of which, the now existing ones, just happen to have no EARLY fossil records. So they just appeared a few million years ago. Then you would have to say, many of these species are incredibly similar to the still existing species with slight differences (all of this is seen in fossil records) but have NO genetic lineage. Oh one problem, studies of similar species mRNA (I think) shows an outstanding similarity. 

OK, so now I have given you some solid answers as you expect. I have linked a great resource for you, what you choose to do with it is up to YOU. Now in order to avoid a double standard I want a solid answer. Why is there a genetic lineage between similar existing and extinct species, more importantly why do we humans have a DNA link with species as old as dinosaurs if we never had a common ancestors? If evolution does not occur, why do we have genetic variation?


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## 5000joints (Feb 3, 2012)

All I know is that from an early age I believed in Jesus. 6 years ago I was reading the Bible to find out why God took His wrath out on His son rather than on us.
In about 2 days of reading on and off I just knew in my heart of hearts that God IS. I turned from my wicked ways (repented - or "changed my mind" which is what repent means)
and I instantly recieved the promised HOLY SPIRIT and I was filled with the glory and love of God that I never even knew I could recieve. I was "BORN AGAIN". For real.

I felt the tangible prescence of God on me and in me. It felt like I was a brand new person and all the ugly stuff inside of me was gone and I felt so pure and holy. There was POWER running through me like a wild fire of electric love. I cant explain it with words to good because it transends words. It was the truth of the BIBLE coming true in my heart and life. That was all I needed to know that I know that I know that Jesus was sent by God to be the Lamb of God that was slain to take away the sins of the World. He took away my sins through taking my punishment on Himself and now Im forgiven and can enter his Holy Tabernacle in Heaven itself and touch the Lord when I Worship(sing with my whole heart) and Pray and feel and be refreshed by his presence as his love and power refills me. I love the Lord so much and want to be like Him in every way. Its too bad Im not. Its too bad that I make mistakes sometimes and people are right there to point fingers and try to debunk the fact that God IS. Im not perfect but He sees me through the perfection of Christ thankfully and doesnt look at my faults anymore.

NO person can tell me GOD doesnt exist because Im a new creation and God the Son, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit live within me now.


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## 5000joints (Feb 3, 2012)

Im just asking whomever will........to please read the book of John and Romans. Easy read. Read it for yourselves. Thats where the power from God comes. Its not just words in a book. They are living and active, sharper than a two-edged sword, Deviding soul and spirit, bone and marrow, discerning the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Jesus said that He will, in no wise, turn anyone away who comes to Him with a humble heart. I did and I recieved the PROMISE. My whole life is changed now for the better. No matter what man does to me, I will be welcomed with open arms into the Kingdom of Heaven. Not for what I did and didnt do. NO! Not by works, but by the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me and died on the cross so that I can be restored back to the Father. Its soooo awesome to feel Him right here when I need Him. He will except all man on earth that come to Him. He is faithfull, and has the most Godly intentions to care for me and my life. He is the author and perfector of my faith and will be faithfull to bring it to the end. YOU TOO.


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## PbHash (Feb 3, 2012)

5000joints: I don't doubt your feeling of God's presence but I do doubt it's source. Your brain can do so many things, including trick you. Evidence of this is seen in Schizophrenics who truly believe their paranoid delusions. I'm not going to go into all the fun and interesting hormones and chemicals that can do this but it is a fact that they can.

Also, take Muslims, there are as many if not more Muslims than Christians. They will all tell you that they have felt the same thing as you. So will Jews, Hindus, and even from the past the Greeks and Egyptians. There is a common feeling of their God's presence, but each has a different God. How could you ever say or know you have the right God.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Feb 3, 2012)

imagine if these people did actually live like the bibles says to , we would have a world full of people like shirley phelps and the westbourough baptist lot , at least they are true to the bible and dont just pick out the bits they like .


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2012)

[video=youtube;dgnvUWM6sYQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgnvUWM6sYQ[/video]


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2012)

WeedKillsBrainCells said:


> What is your point? No I don't have a hard time believing they didn't know what an atom was, funnily enough that wasn't the point. The point was I find it hard believing Christians would take the word of people with none of the fundamental scientific knowledge that we have now, yet expect them to give them the answers for their whole entire existence. Then again science was always religions enemy, too many facts.


M'Riiiight. What I am saying is that there is much more to life than your scientific facts. They have a place, but you saying they are the crux of living is totally wrong.

"take the word of people" Man, that was the understanding of the day - it EVOLVES. I thought you were trying to come off here as 'current'. You might as well say "dude, like, they didn't even have cd players back then, how could they have listened to music?"

If you take away all that was in the world, in a religious sense, your science would not be were it is now. And no, it would not be further ahead as you would wish to believe. The two work together. Somewhere along the line, maybe a new generation of scientific bent, added ridicule and arrogance as a positive trait?

Makes sense I guess, since most kids these days live at home till they're 35 and act like they're adults


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Feb 3, 2012)

that video was shit , did your lil sister make it or sumfing ? its basicallysaying ' i want to believe in god , i dont care about the evedicence , i dont care about the other 1000s of gods , im not going to debate it , i just believe it' . 
wich is fair enough, if you dont mind living a lie , infact i do the exact same thing about the famillly of invisible smurfs i have , inside a shoe box in my wardrobe. no one believes me , but i know they are there , i have had signs off them and i can feel there love and presence.
one time my mum had a badback and i asked the smirf to help , next day she was better so that proves they are there .i could go on .
its fine to have your beliefs but dont expect people not to ridicule them especially when you put your fingers in your ears and go blah blah blah blah , people just wont take you or your beliefs seriousley im afraid .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Feb 3, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> M'Riiiight. What I am saying is that there is much more to life than your scientific facts. They have a place, but you saying they are the crux of living is totally wrong.
> 
> "take the word of people" Man, that was the understanding of the day - it EVOLVES. I thought you were trying to come off here as 'current'. You might as well say "dude, like, they didn't even have cd players back then, how could they have listened to music?"
> 
> ...


please go further and tell me why science wouldnt be as far along if it wasnt for religion ? you made the statement but didnt say why ?


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## ginjawarrior (Feb 3, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> If you take away all that was in the world, in a religious sense, *your science would not be were it is now. And no, it would not be further ahead as you would wish to believe.* The two work together. Somewhere along the line, maybe a new generation of scientific bent, added ridicule and arrogance as a positive trait?


that is a mightily bold statement your trying to feed us got any sauce for that? cases like Copernicus and Galileo speak against what your saying but i would like to see where your coming from

and arrogance? sorry thats a tool religions been using for a very very long time


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Feb 3, 2012)

[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]


eye exaggerate said:


> M'Riiiight. What I am saying is that there is much more to life than your scientific facts. They have a place, but you saying they are the crux of living is totally wrong.
> 
> "take the word of people" Man, that was the understanding of the day - it EVOLVES. I thought you were trying to come off here as 'current'. You might as well say "dude, like, they didn't even have cd players back then, how could they have listened to music?"
> 
> ...


I've gotta say your use of the word evolve when it comes to religion is hilarious. The whole point is Christianity HASNT evolved. Last I checked you guys still think being gay is immoral according to the words in your holy bigot book. Or maybe you're the liberal kind of Christian that ignores those parts eh. How about Christian endorsed slavery?

And yeh you're totally right science and Christianity go together.. Great one.
[/FONT]


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## ginjawarrior (Feb 3, 2012)

WeedKillsBrainCells said:


> I've gotta say your use of the word evolve when it comes to religion is hilarious. The whole point is Christianity HASNT evolved. Last I checked you guys still think being gay is immoral according to the words in your holy bigot book. Or maybe you're the liberal kind of Christian that ignores those parts eh. How about Christian endorsed slavery?
> 
> And yeh you're totally right science and Christianity go together.. Great one.


i think as a whole christianity has changed its morals some what over the years a kinda evolution but its done it kicking and screaming when its had to. its just a very slow process that would be made much quicker if you could ever get rid of the damn dogma [/devils advocate]


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## heathen (Feb 3, 2012)

I believe in a goddess. Her name is Gaia and she does for a fact exist.


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Feb 3, 2012)

ginjawarrior said:


> i think as a whole christianity has changed its morals some what over the years a kinda evolution but its done it kicking and screaming when its had to. its just a very slow process that would be made much quicker if you could ever get rid of the damn dogma [/devils advocate]


Yeah you're right but only kicking and screaming like you said. They're the equivalent of a politician doing a U-turn for votes. I'd prefer they stuck to their old ass book rhetoric, it'd be outdated but at least it'd be sincere.


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Feb 3, 2012)

[video=youtube;0kuzYwzGoXw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kuzYwzGoXw[/video]


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2012)

WeedKillsBrainCells said:


> I've gotta say your use of the word evolve when it comes to religion is hilarious. The whole point is Christianity HASNT evolved. Last I checked you guys still think being gay is immoral according to the words in your holy bigot book. Or maybe you're the liberal kind of Christian that ignores those parts eh. How about Christian endorsed slavery?
> 
> And yeh you're totally right science and Christianity go together.. Great one.



...you're the same type of person that says all believers are closed-minded. 2012, last I checked. Observational bias, perhaps? Stuck in the past?

...you know it can't be denied that sht happened, and I won't deny it. But that does not for one second mean that the world still operates this way. Sorry, this is as much bigotry as you're accusing believers of. We don't study science, either, yeah?


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## tip top toker (Feb 3, 2012)

One would think that if God was such a real thing there would be no need for parents to force their kids to goto church against their will and that they'd find God regardless. For some reason not though, seems it's better to try and indoctrinate them from a young age.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2012)

...a couple of things. The Vatican supports evolution. As a matter of fact, Aquinas was one of the the first to propose the idea. Also, the vatican has one of the world's oldest observatories. JPII wrote a lot about faith and science, as well as many others.


"The scientist's condition as a sentinel in the modern world, as one who is the first to glimpse the enormous complexity together with the marvellous harmony of reality, makes him a privileged witness of the plausibility of religion, a man capable of showing how the admission of transcendence, far from harming the autonomy and the ends of research, rather stimulates it to continually surpass itself in an experience of self-transcendence which reveals the human mystery".
Pope John Paul II, 7/17/85.



...this subject pisses me off, so sorry if I seem like I'm being a dck.

[video=youtube;K23MpHQZHFk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K23MpHQZHFk&amp;feature=player_embedded[/video]


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Feb 3, 2012)

Eye exagerate , you made a massive bold statement saying science would not be where it is today if it was not for religion , but you havent said why , i believe religion has held back science by about a thoiusand years but im desperate to know how religion has helped science in your eyes ? Lol please tell


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Feb 3, 2012)

My guess is you dont know , and just pulled that statment from your arse hole ?


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## Heisenberg (Feb 3, 2012)

I am with you on one point eye. If science and reason are the only tools in your belt you will find yourself unequipped to deal with the world. Human emotion is nuanced and intuition is often illogical. It takes a more encompassing grasp to truly bring life and reality into harmony. So as you say, science and reason are necessary, but not themselves plenteous. 

It is because they are necessary though, that we distrust Christianity. So the Vatican supports evolution.. It also supports the idea of a virgin birth and resurrection, both serious claims of biology. The bible, as you know, also makes serious claims about cosmology, geology, physiology, physics, ect, all of which are claims that greatly contradict science and reason. So it is not necessary to disregard our other tools in order to see Christianity as flawed, science and reason are enough.

Perhaps we had to crawl with religion before we could walk with science, but it's long past time we started running.


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## heathen (Feb 3, 2012)

My goddess is an awesome goddess.

She won't help Tim Tebow win a football game, but they couldn't play the game without her.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> I am with you on one point eye. If science and reason are the only tools in your belt you will find yourself unequipped to deal with the world. Human emotion is nuanced and intuition is often illogical. It takes a more encompassing grasp to truly bring life and reality into harmony. So as you say, science and reason are necessary, but not themselves plenteous.
> 
> It is because they are necessary though, that we distrust Christianity. So the Vatican supports evolution.. It also supports the idea of a virgin birth and resurrection, both serious claims of biology. The bible, as you know, also makes serious claims about cosmology, geology, physiology, physics, ect, all of which are claims that greatly contradict science and reason. So it is not necessary to disregard our other tools in order to see Christianity as flawed, science and reason are enough.
> 
> Perhaps we had to crawl with religion before we could walk with science, but it's long past time we started running.



Heis, thank you, very eloquent. You're right about running, we need to. Maybe drag creates a better momentum, like the tension between opposites that is necessary for life. This would ensure a proper flex on the muscles of the mind.

The inner side of Xians is hidden, and not by a group. It is hidden by us. The contradictory claims can be better understood by looking at the hidden meanings (imo). Virgin birth and resurrection are events that happen within. I'd love to get into this!


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## LIVE2GRO (Feb 3, 2012)

to be honest.. people believe in god just like terrorist believe they recieve rivers of honey.. and 72 virgins wen they blow up a building full of people.. 

its all bullshit.... its a way to control a weak minded individual ... they WROTE the BIBLE? doesnt that seem odd to u .. that if there was a GOD. that he would have some men write the bible.. and tell us that homosexuality is wrong.. and all this shit is sins and god will forgive us for our sins .. and o ya.. GODs Son will give himself to save a bunch of people who go around killing eachother .. harrasing eachother.. bullying eachothre. and treating eachother like complete shit...... iuno seems a little WRONG to me .. 

just like everything else in this world. its all about the higher ups staying powerful and rich .. while the rest of us work are lifes away with the government ripping all of us off for taxes n telling us wat we can and cannot put into our own bodys? 

im not saying it couldnt be true ... but very unlikely.. 

and if u dont agree that it is a little to easy to become a born again christian... it only takes reading a prayer to become a born again christian.. like realy.. ?// i dont believe it.. people need to change.. i have a friend who goes around telling everyone hes a born again christian.. but then goes around ripping people off.. robbing people.. talking shit about people.. instead of helping other growers .. hejust bashes them... karma is something i believe in .. u do good .. good will happen. no... if u pray that ur sins are gone and u r good and have eternal life an shit.. hhahah.. funny shit.. 



I believe in a higher power.. 

sorry if i affended anyone.. but .. if u cant get over it .. ur not a child of god.. forgive and forget guys.haha


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## LIVE2GRO (Feb 4, 2012)

i believe in science.. not in god.. sorry .. but the joke that without religion science would not of gotten anywere is bullshit.. it seems like people are afraid to think that we evolved .. instead u want to believe that a god created us all... if there was a GOD.. he created a ton of bad people.. does that make sense to u ? nope.. 

and i love it to.. if ur going to live by the bible then do it.. dont pick and chose the shit u like and go with that.. and then toss out the rest.. and im not gay or anything.. but i do believe that we as humans can make our own decisions as to wat is right or wrong.. .. but the bible wants u to believe its immoral.. like really? the Bible is a big crock of shit.. its a scam and most of all.. a CULT-like atmosphere.. i went to church wih my family until i was old enough to tell em to fuck off and its all a bunch of horse shit.. 

i believe in science and stand behind spirituality.. there may be a higher power.. there may not.. there may be a GOD... but there maybe a G.O.D. Group of Drunks.. who used the bible to get off alcohol way back .. ?"?? who the fuck knows and who cares.. i think more people need to be proud of who they are and were they came from instead of worrying about were ur going down the road.. as science states .. we die... and like everything else.. we become 1 with the world.. now.. if our soul or Spirit.. lives on or moves onto a different side of things. maybe turns into a different species or watnot.. but.. they say were u die. ur body makes a ton of stuff to make u DREAM..so death is a long dream until it fades away// iunno believe wat u want.. but science will always prove it rong.. ALWAYS.. sciences comes up with ways to heal us.. not some imaginary person u pray to.. and all the bull about god healing people


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## afrawfraw (Feb 4, 2012)

For the OP, indoctrination! If you've grown up with an idea your whole life, it isn't so crazy. If your father sat to pee, and your mother stood, The children would follow suit. Interesting fact. Humans are born Atheists, and unless converted through indoctrination or emotional need, remain so. I've met two types of religious people. 1) Believe because they have never known different. 2) NEED for their religion to be true to gratify an emotional insecurity.


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## afrawfraw (Feb 4, 2012)

jimmyjay said:


> (theory = educated guess )= (evolution = theory)


Gravity=Theory
Electricity=Theory
Light=Theory

The scientific definition of Theory is VERY different from the layman definition!


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 4, 2012)

LIVE2GRO said:


> i believe in science.. not in god.. sorry .. but the joke that without religion science would not of gotten anywere is bullshit.. it seems like people are afraid to think that we evolved .. instead u want to believe that a god created us all... if there was a GOD.. he created a ton of bad people.. does that make sense to u ? nope..
> 
> and i love it to.. if ur going to live by the bible then do it.. dont pick and chose the shit u like and go with that.. and then toss out the rest.. and im not gay or anything.. but i do believe that we as humans can make our own decisions as to wat is right or wrong.. .. but the bible wants u to believe its immoral.. like really? the Bible is a big crock of shit.. its a scam and most of all.. a CULT-like atmosphere.. i went to church wih my family until i was old enough to tell em to fuck off and its all a bunch of horse shit..
> 
> i believe in science and stand behind spirituality.. there may be a higher power.. there may not.. there may be a GOD... but there maybe a G.O.D. Group of Drunks.. who used the bible to get off alcohol way back .. ?"?? who the fuck knows and who cares.. i think more people need to be proud of who they are and were they came from instead of worrying about were ur going down the road.. as science states .. we die... and like everything else.. we become 1 with the world.. now.. if our soul or Spirit.. lives on or moves onto a different side of things. maybe turns into a different species or watnot.. but.. they say were u die. ur body makes a ton of stuff to make u DREAM..so death is a long dream until it fades away// iunno believe wat u want.. but science will always prove it rong.. ALWAYS.. sciences comes up with ways to heal us.. not some imaginary person u pray to.. and all the bull about god healing people


...it is really just understanding things at a different level. It's not about picking and choosing. You get to a point, as with any other study, that you get stumped. Maybe we move on to another part of our subject and get back to the other when we're ready.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 4, 2012)

afrawfraw said:


> For the OP, indoctrination! If you've grown up with an idea your whole life, it isn't so crazy. If your father sat to pee, and your mother stood, The children would follow suit. Interesting fact. Humans are born Atheists, and unless converted through indoctrination or emotional need, remain so. I've met two types of religious people. 1) Believe because they have never known different. 2) NEED for their religion to be true to gratify an emotional insecurity.


...all my life I believed that any thinker was not caught up in the surface of things. They don't get held up in the typical definition of things to go and figure it out.

Most of these kind of comments are very superficial. Every believer has heard them. I don't know, maybe you need to evolve your slander? Give us something new?


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Feb 4, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...all my life I believed that any thinker was not caught up in the surface of things. They don't get held up in the typical definition of things to go and figure it out.
> 
> Most of these kind of comments are very superficial. Every believer has heard them. I don't know, maybe you need to evolve your slander? Give us something new?


Theres a difference between being spiritually enlightened and being an idiot who doesn't believe in evolution. Sure your argument that life isn't all about science (which was never said) is valid, but when people believe in stupid shit blindly then they should become pariahs. I mean look at those evangelicals in the proven scam of 'faith healing'. Its been proven for ages that pain is subjective, yet you see people believe in it so blindly they'll pay for momentary placebo. Not to mention when they roll around on the floor speaking in tongues... Looks like mental illness to the sane world


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 4, 2012)

WeedKillsBrainCells said:


> Theres a difference between being spiritually enlightened and being an idiot who doesn't believe in evolution. Sure your argument that life isn't all about science (which was never said) is valid, but when people believe in stupid shit blindly then they should become pariahs. I mean look at those evangelicals in the proven scam of 'faith healing'. Its been proven for ages that pain is subjective, yet you see people believe in it so blindly they'll pay for momentary placebo. Not to mention when they roll around on the floor speaking in tongues... Looks like mental illness to the sane world


...you've got a couple agreeable points here. Doctor's can be seen as faith healers also, I guess it depends on how old the kid is


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## tyler.durden (Feb 4, 2012)

I think it's interesting that religion tries it's best to be friends with science, but science really wants nothing to do with religion. I mean, we see theologians desperately trying to convince us that the two are not incompatible, but with a couple of exceptions, we don't see scientists trying to convince us of the same. Why is that?


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## afrawfraw (Feb 5, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...all my life I believed that any thinker was not caught up in the surface of things. They don't get held up in the typical definition of things to go and figure it out.
> 
> Most of these kind of comments are very superficial. Every believer has heard them. I don't know, maybe you need to evolve your slander? Give us something new?


I was not arguing anything. I have no point. Facts are Facts. Slander? US? 

Your funny.


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## afrawfraw (Feb 5, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> I think it's interesting that religion tries it's best to be friends with science, but science really wants nothing to do with religion. I mean, we see theologians desperately trying to convince us that the two are not incompatible, but with a couple of exceptions, we don't see scientists trying to convince us of the same. Why is that?


Why don't scientists picket funerals and march on churches for NOT teaching science in Bible School? Because an ignorant man can be taught. A delusional man will NEVER admit his ignorance, because it is not real to him, so he will never admit he needs an education.


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## Beefbisquit (Feb 5, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> I think it's interesting that religion tries it's best to be friends with science, but science really wants nothing to do with religion. I mean, we see theologians desperately trying to convince us that the two are not incompatible, but with a couple of exceptions, we don't see scientists trying to convince us of the same. Why is that?


Science has demonstrable proof of it's claims, therefor is shown to be credible. Religion has very little, to no proof to any of its claims, therefor has not been shown to be credible. We know science works, the fact that you're reading my spiel on your internet capable device is proof of that. Religion has a much harder time proving any of its claims, as most can either be chalked up to superstitious thinking or random chance. Religious people can't demonstrate that prayer works, they can't pray to god for an amputee to get his legs back, all 'miracle heals' are things that could have happened naturally, and the stories in the bible are so old and modified, (not to mention written generations after the events happened, and by people who understood nothing of the workings of the world) it's impossible to tell if there's even a shred of truth in them other than some mediocre morals.


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Feb 5, 2012)

[video=youtube;i8rLIT0RFGQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8rLIT0RFGQ[/video]
Disclaimer: may or not represent my thoughts


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## Luger187 (Feb 5, 2012)

OP or anyone else that would be interested... i suggest a book called "the believing brain" by michael shermer.


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## Luger187 (Feb 5, 2012)

jimmyjay said:


> when the theory of evalution is no longer a theory. it will hold more sway i will hold on to my theory that i was created your aguing a point of veiw not facts neither side has the ability to disprove the other so this thread and all the others like it are just a way to bring up your feelings if you realy are comfortable in your opinions than why start such nonsence


creationism isnt a theory lol. name one fact that backs up creationism. i can name plenty that back up evolution. and yes, we can disprove some creationist claims. like when people say humans came from two people that were 'created', we know for a FACT that did not happen. if creation did happen, it was at the bacteria level or lower and life evolved from that point on.

the question is... are we going to lean more towards an idea that says humans were created by a god which is backed up by exactly zero evidence, or a theory which is backed up by countless facts and tests done throughout the world? ever heard of a paternity test?


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## Luger187 (Feb 5, 2012)

smoothforyou2 said:


> im not religious or anything but if you actually look at the bible theres alot of wisdom in it any question you have in life is pretty much there and thats a fact. try and read it and if you dont understand ask a preacher they can explain it to you.


Where do i find the section on wave functions or fusion?


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## FR33MASON (Feb 5, 2012)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> How does religious belief carry on when every argument arrives at the same point ? ..........prove your god exists ? And then the argument simply gets side tracked , if any god existed it would be simple to prove ,
> if someone has one single piece of evidence a god exists then lets see it , other wise its belief without evidence , wich is absolute obsurdity,this major point gets brushed aside but i wont let it go .


 When it comes to matters of the heart such as belief and love it doesn't need to make sense. 
We still know so little of the world before our eyes and for some, belief is the only way to cope with the unkown. 







"Many a long dispute among divines may be thus abridged: It is so. It is not so. It is so. It is not so."

 ~Benjamin Franklin~


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Feb 5, 2012)

FR33MASON said:


> When it comes to matters of the heart such as belief and love it doesn't need to make sense.
> We still know so little of the world before our eyes and for some, belief is the only way to cope with the unkown.
> 
> 
> ...


Shame it's not the heart or love, it's the brain and mild brainwashing from parent or other surrounding delusionals.

If everyone suddenly came to the conclusion that there was a creator out of nowhere then i'd be like ok there might be something. The fact there's man-made objects (the bible) which has been rewritten who knows how many times telling you to believe it is where it gets a bit retarded.

Oh and... To people saying the bible still applies to today... Yeah the parts about not killing people and other basic human instinct shit.. Congrats on the foresight there


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## PbHash (Feb 6, 2012)

FR33MASON said:


> When it comes to matters of the heart such as belief and love it doesn't need to make sense.
> We still know so little of the world before our eyes and for some, belief is the only way to cope with the unkown.
> 
> 
> ...


Seriously, you just said because you don't understand something you should believe in something spiritual or God because that would comfort you. That to me is the source of so many problems where science and religion meet.

Answering the greatest questions to life are hard, uncomfortable, and scary but to throw away reason for comfort is lying to yourself.


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## Brick Top (Feb 6, 2012)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> How does religious belief carry on when every argument arrives at the same point ? ..........prove your god exists ? And then the argument simply gets side tracked , if any god existed it would be simple to prove ,
> if someone has one single piece of evidence a god exists then lets see it , other wise its belief without evidence , wich is absolute obsurdity,this major point gets brushed aside but i wont let it go .



Religion is based on, and relies on, faith, faith in what cannot be proven, but needs to be believed and accepted (according to things like the Bible). So, if proof existed there would be absolutely no need for faith and and the entire basis of religion would collapse. If you know God's telephone number, email address and snail mail address you don't need to have faith that he exists, because you would then know he existed. God is not supposed to be provable. Proof denies one of faith. 

So, let's look at it from a different angle. If someone believes the Big Bag created everything, prove it, show the verifiable proof. Not one or more of the many theories that are argued of how it might possibly have happened, but actual verifiable proof of the one and only, singular, way it occurred from step 'A' through step 'Z.' Where is the 100% indisputable proof?

Intelligent design? Where is the indisputable proof?

Moon men created everything? Where is the indisputable proof?

Regardless of one's chosen belief, at some point or another they all require a massive leap of faith.


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## Harrekin (Feb 6, 2012)

Brick Top said:


> Religion is based on, and relies on, faith, faith in what cannot be proven, but needs to be believed and accepted (according to things like the Bible). So, if proof existed there would be absolutely no need for faith and and the entire basis of religion would collapse. If you know God's telephone number, email address and snail mail address you don't need to have faith that he exists, because you would then know he existed. God is not supposed to be provable. Proof denies one of faith.
> 
> So, let's look at it from a different angle. If someone believes the Big Bag created everything, prove it, show the verifiable proof. Not one or more of the many theories that are argued of how it might possibly have happened, but actual verifiable proof of the one and only, singular, way it occurred from step 'A' through step 'Z.' Where is the 100% indisputable proof?
> 
> ...


In the end tho, who *really* cares what others believe tho? IF we all had true freedom, with religion as a belief system for some and it not be an influencing factor in public policy then the world would be fucking rosey.

Yet here we are, still fighting over it...


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## Heisenberg (Feb 6, 2012)

Brick Top said:


> Intelligent design? Where is the indisputable proof?
> 
> Moon men created everything? Where is the indisputable proof?
> 
> Regardless of one's chosen belief, at some point or another they all require a massive leap of faith.


They all may require a measure of uncertainty and speculation, but if you wanted to go with the theory which requires the least amount of unsupported assumptions, which would you choose?


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## Brick Top (Feb 6, 2012)

Harrekin said:


> In the end tho, who *really* cares what others believe tho? IF we all had true freedom, with religion as a belief system for some and it not be an influencing factor in public policy then the world would be fucking rosey.
> 
> Yet here we are, still fighting over it...


I'm not fighting over anything, nor have I actually taken a stance on what I may or may not believe. I only pointed out how the lack of definitive proof of a God is really no different that the lack of definitive proof of any other belief of how all things came to be.


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## Brick Top (Feb 6, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> They all may require a measure of uncertainty and speculation, but if you wanted to go with the theory which requires the least amount of unsupported assumptions, which would you choose?



Supported or unsupported assumptions nevertheless remain assumptions. 

Would it be fair to say that much, if not all, of the support for the assumption of the Big Bang Theory relies, at least to some degree or another, on physics? 

Well, so far two experiments have resulted in neutrinos being found to travel faster than the speed of light. If that is upheld and proven to be accurate, than Einstein was wrong that the speed of light is the fastest speed possible, and physics relies on that pretty heavily, right? So if the speed of light is not the fastest speed achievable, than much of the support for any assumption that relies on physics for it's proof is bound to be inaccurate. If that is the case, how supportive actually is the support?

Personally, I don't care in the least what would truthfully explain what and how. I am here and that is all that matter to me.

I just like pointing out to those who say that since there is no proof of the existence of God that a God does not exist, even though in their belief structure there also lacks irrefutable absolutes and for them to believe what they believe, regardless of how they attempt to validate it or justify it or define it or rationalize it, it still comes down to a leap of faith for their belief to exist, just as in the case of those who believe in a God or intelligent design or moon men being behind the creation of everything.


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## Heisenberg (Feb 6, 2012)

Brick Top said:


> Supported or unsupported assumptions nevertheless remain assumptions.
> 
> Would it be fair to say that much, if not all, of the support for the assumption of the Big Bang Theory relies, at least to some degree or another, on physics?
> 
> ...


All belief structures lack irrefutable absolutes. Any answer we have is at best an approximation of the truth. I agree that this is something worth pointing out, especially in response to the OP.

You do however make it sound as if the lack of absolutes puts creationism and the big bang on equal ground. There is a big difference between wild uncontrolled assumptions and evidence based assumptions, such a difference that it becomes necessary to not conflate the two. To say they both require a leap of faith is superficial and reductive. The difference is in the methodology. One is the result of intuitive guesswork, and the other of strictly controlled and rigorous application of consistent doubt in the pursuit of evidence. One gives us extremely rigid and specific answers and tries to explain away the inconsistencies, and the other gives us an ever growing framework of understanding of how the universe presents itself and what that may imply. One is supported by the word of men, the other is supported by math, cosmology, physics, geology, empirical observation, ect. When we examine these two types of faith, we see that they are so very different as to effectively be opposites.

Since absolute answers are off the table, we have to go with the most accurate approximation. That is best accomplished by paying strict and close attention to our assumptions, rather than saying they are all assumptions never the less.


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## Beefbisquit (Feb 6, 2012)

Brick Top said:


> So, let's look at it from a different angle. If someone believes the Big Bag created everything, prove it, show the verifiable proof.


No legitimate scientist claims the big bang created everything, only that the universe as we know it started in a very hot dense, spot, and then it started to expand. Furthermore we do see cosmic background radiation, exactly as predicted by Stephen Hawking, which also supports the Big Bang Theory.



> Not one or more of the many theories that are argued of how it might possibly have happened, but actual verifiable proof of the one and only, singular, way it occurred from step 'A' through step 'Z.' Where is the 100% indisputable proof?
> 
> Intelligent design? Where is the indisputable proof?
> 
> ...


No, they don't require faith. Faith exists in a barren lack of evidence (or in the face of ignorance), and we have plenty of evidence, and have extrapolated a wealth of theories from that evidence. These theories are currently the best explanation we have, and as new evidence becomes available the theories will change. 'Faith' doesn't require evidence, or careful, planned, measurement and analysis.

So, no; scientific theory doesn't require faith.


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Feb 6, 2012)

Big bang doesn't particularly need verifiable proof, its called theory for a reason. Personally I think it's gonna be pretty hard to work out what happened all those years ago. Still... i'd gladly settle more with 'i dont know' than a magical creator


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## Heisenberg (Feb 6, 2012)

Beefbisquit said:


> No, they don't require faith. Faith exists in a barren lack of evidence (or in the face of ignorance), and we have plenty of evidence, and have extrapolated a wealth of theories from that evidence. These theories are currently the best explanation we have, and as new evidence becomes available the theories will change. 'Faith' doesn't require evidence, or careful, planned, measurement and analysis.
> 
> So, no; scientific theory doesn't require faith.


Something else I find interesting when I converse with people IRL. Although they persist and say that god is about faith, they have no problem listing what they see as evidence. The bible's historical (in)accuracy, miracles, personal experiences, the complexity of life, ect. Faith is only used as a fallback, when this evidence is brought into question. Essentially it's used as a sort of special pleading. This is another outstanding distinction between the 'faith' science has in the big bang and faith in the church.


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## Harrekin (Feb 6, 2012)

Brick Top said:


> I'm not fighting over anything, nor have I actually taken a stance on what I may or may not believe. I only pointed out how the lack of definitive proof of a God is really no different that the lack of definitive proof of any other belief of how all things came to be.


Ok scratch off "fighting" and insert "master-debating". We cool?  lol.


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## afrawfraw (Feb 6, 2012)

Is man one of God's blunders or is God one of man's blunders? ~ Friedrich Nietzsche


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## FR33MASON (Feb 6, 2012)

PbHash said:


> Seriously, you just said because you don't understand something you should believe in something spiritual or God because that would comfort you. That to me is the source of so many problems where science and religion meet.
> 
> Answering the greatest questions to life are hard, uncomfortable, and scary but to throw away reason for comfort is lying to yourself.


If you read again, you will see that I noted that not all people, but some people will use faith to cope with the unknown. Not all people have the same level of consciousness.


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## FR33MASON (Feb 6, 2012)

WeedKillsBrainCells said:


> Shame it's not the heart or love, it's the brain and mild brainwashing from parent or other surrounding delusionals.
> 
> If everyone suddenly came to the conclusion that there was a creator out of nowhere then i'd be like ok there might be something. The fact there's man-made objects (the bible) which has been rewritten who knows how many times telling you to believe it is where it gets a bit retarded.
> 
> Oh and... To people saying the bible still applies to today... Yeah the parts about not killing people and other basic human instinct shit.. Congrats on the foresight there


Words only matter if you allow them to matter. Yes the bible, the quran and all religious texts are a crock in my opinion but it is just my opinion. I am curious as to what devout individuals did to provoke such animosity from people.

I do envy religious people as ignorance is bliss.


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## Beefbisquit (Feb 6, 2012)

WeedKillsBrainCells said:


> Big bang doesn't particularly need verifiable proof, its called theory for a reason. Personally I think it's gonna be pretty hard to work out what happened all those years ago. Still... i'd gladly settle more with 'i dont know' than a magical creator


This is a common mistake. 'Theory' in scientific terms means best explanation based upon the available evidence. The term theory can cover anything from something we know very little about (multi-world theory, String Theory) to something we are almost 100% certain about (Evolution, Big-bang theory).


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## Farfenugen (Feb 7, 2012)

fear.......


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## Padawanbater2 (Feb 7, 2012)

^ best answer yet.


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## joey555 (Feb 10, 2012)

Brick Top said:


> Religion is based on, and relies on, faith, faith in what cannot be proven, but needs to be believed and accepted (according to things like the Bible). So, if proof existed there would be absolutely no need for faith and and the entire basis of religion would collapse. If you know God's telephone number, email address and snail mail address you don't need to have faith that he exists, because you would then know he existed. God is not supposed to be provable. Proof denies one of faith.
> 
> So, let's look at it from a different angle. If someone believes the Big Bag created everything, prove it, show the verifiable proof. Not one or more of the many theories that are argued of how it might possibly have happened, but actual verifiable proof of the one and only, singular, way it occurred from step 'A' through step 'Z.' Where is the 100% indisputable proof?
> 
> ...


*I do agree w/ some of ur points....I do, but the **"BIG BANG**" is a misnomer...a bang cannot happen in space/ or vaccum. That which has not been proved yet by science does not mean it will remain that way......there was a time when negative energy or anti-matter did not exsist until it was proved or to put it another way, humans were not aware that the** GENE HAR-1** has exsisted until the discipline of genetics came to be then when the genome was mapped- we became aware of the HAR-1.

Please do not misconstrue this as an affront, or me being a dick~~~ just adding input.*


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