# Most Overrated Strain?



## jman0998 (Jan 29, 2012)

what do you all think is the most overrated marijuana strain there is. id have to say white widow, ik back in its hayday it was great but no one seems to grow good white widow anymore


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## alphawolf.hack (Jan 29, 2012)

i was about to say the same im growin some widow and it great just awe inspiring. i hopeing to have better luck w/ blue cheese and purple#1. im so happy too i found 2 bubble gum seeds and they germed overnite it was some grade A smoke so i hope for the same!


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## althor (Jan 29, 2012)

Blueberry...

Yeah I said it.


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## alphawolf.hack (Jan 29, 2012)

i need to rephrase " just NOT awe inspiring."


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## jman0998 (Jan 29, 2012)

i totally disagree with you on that, i personally love blueberry, atleast the stuff i got


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## alphawolf.hack (Jan 29, 2012)

blue berry i fucking awesome if its the real deal but most everybody got some hybrid of it that just isnt the same but they try to play it off like they got the original BB. another strain that is overrated is strawberry & G13 cuz nobody knows who has the original cut and all the hybrids are crazy different.


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## BBYY (Jan 29, 2012)

althor said:


> Blueberry...
> 
> Yeah I said it.


Couldt disagree more. I would say BB is the most underrated. Just cause growers hate to grow it.


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## althor (Jan 29, 2012)

alphawolf.hack said:


> blue berry i fucking awesome if its the real deal but most everybody got some hybrid of it that just isnt the same but they try to play it off like they got the original BB. another strain that is overrated is strawberry & G13 cuz nobody knows who has the original cut and all the hybrids are crazy different.


 Yep and even the really expensive 10 pack from DJ is hard to find a keeper. They are few and far between to get a good BB these days. So many phenos and hermie issues etc.


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## fishwhistle (Jan 29, 2012)

anything purple


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## jman0998 (Jan 29, 2012)

if you could get properly grown blueberry thats not hybridized and tht someone actually put reall effort to grow its some of the best


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## deza (Jan 29, 2012)

AK47.... AND WHITE WIDOW, SKUNK, NOTHERN LIGHTS ETC..
ARE ALL PEICES OF SHIT!! 








JUST KIDDING HAHA..


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## jackoladd (Jan 29, 2012)

cheese, yeah i said it . everyone i know loves it but it's it just not for me


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## SSHZ (Jan 29, 2012)

Dr. GreenThumb's Endless Sky.......... airy buds, mediocre buzz with straw taste and smell. Add in the $225 price, poor germination rates and Doc's internet shills- it all adds up to:

"the worse stain out there".


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## SketchyGrower (Jan 29, 2012)

White widow and pineapple express are mine


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## jman0998 (Jan 29, 2012)

i would also have to say that beasters are pretty overrated, atleast around here


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## Medshed (Jan 29, 2012)

althor said:


> Yep and even the really expensive 10 pack from DJ is hard to find a keeper. They are few and far between to get a good BB these days. So many phenos and hermie issues etc.


I think that's why Blueberry is the most overrated. Something that is so hard to find a keeper from seed may as well be clone only.


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## BA142 (Jan 29, 2012)

i've had maui wowie from several different growers and i've always disliked it.

but i've also smoked some killer maui wowie wax....


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## That Canadian (Jan 29, 2012)

When we talk over rated, I guess most that will be compared are commercial-ish strains because it's what people see often. IMO CHEESE is the worst fucking commercial strain out there. It might be great to grow, I'm not sure, haven't grown it, but compared to other things out there like different kush's, and Jack Hybrids, cheese just doesn't compare. Sure it's got a unique taste/smell, but it's rarely that tight, has mediocre chrystal, and is just not that powerful..

Just my two cents, from what I've gathered in my area.


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## HungryMan420 (Jan 29, 2012)

Blue Dreams!
GDP


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## ChronosaurusRex (Jan 29, 2012)

HungryMan420 said:


> Blue Dreams!
> GDP


I strongly disagree, Blue Dream & GDP were definitely 2 of my favorite smokes of all time. The Blue Dream was very hazy with a hint of Blueberry, super tasty and narcotic. The GDP was like opal and changed colors in sunlight from dark purple to light pink and the trich's just glistened.

In my opinion, the most over-rated strain is White Widow(75% of all seed banks offer a knock off of it)


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## Goldowitz (Jan 29, 2012)

purple strains


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## deza (Jan 29, 2012)

SketchyGrower said:


> White widow and pineapple express are mine



i couldnt find the dislike button for this comment.... damn.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jan 30, 2012)

Most overrated? probably og kush


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## Bad Karma (Jan 30, 2012)

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> Most overrated? probably og kush


Oh no, now you've done it.
You better start running now man, they're gonna be coming after you with torches in hand.
Run Forrest, run!
I'll create a distraction for ya buddy.
Hey everybody, Blueberry is horribly overrated shit.
It helps if you imagine that I'm waving road flares over my head for dramatic effect.


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## SketchyGrower (Jan 30, 2012)

deza said:


> i couldnt find the dislike button for this comment.... damn.


I'd like to see a dislike button..


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## big fatjoint (Jan 30, 2012)

Well I have to agree about blueberry The dutch passion version is midgrade at best and dj's has lots of variation but the strongest plant I have smoked to date was a crinkly blueberry from dj short! It was my first ever grow and did not know nothing and still that little bastard was strong!!
I am still looking for something like that plant 15 years later!


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## DROPZILLA (Jan 30, 2012)

the 3 most overrated:
OG kush
Bluedream
Sour diesel or NY diesel - hate to say it, sour d is one on my favorites


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## shrigpiece (Jan 30, 2012)

Og kush for sure, not saying its bad i like it but all the hype?
Skunk 1 is underated and about as cheap to by in seeds and easy to grow with fantastic yields.
Well said on blueberry another underated hero.


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## shrigpiece (Jan 30, 2012)

deza said:


> AK47.... AND WHITE WIDOW, SKUNK, NOTHERN LIGHTS ETC..
> ARE ALL PEICES OF SHIT!!
> 
> 
> ...


Absolutely, i honestly thought you were serious at first. PEACE.


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## Beansly (Jan 30, 2012)

Og Kush....yep.
I don't know though. I've had some really great OG...I just can't justify the price. It's still just weed.


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## NiKEUS (Jan 30, 2012)

That Canadian said:


> When we talk over rated, I guess most that will be compared are commercial-ish strains because it's what people see often. IMO CHEESE is the worst fucking commercial strain out there. It might be great to grow, I'm not sure, haven't grown it, but compared to other things out there like different kush's, and Jack Hybrids, cheese just doesn't compare. Sure it's got a unique taste/smell, but it's rarely that tight, has mediocre chrystal, and is just not that powerful..
> 
> Just my two cents, from what I've gathered in my area.


now the problem is which cheese are you talking about?

and the problem with this thread is which seedbank etc

i doubt you have smoked real exodus cheese, the shit sold by GHS is nothing like the cut only exoudus strain.
no seed version I have some across is anything like the real deal


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## ChronicObsession (Jan 30, 2012)

jman0998 said:


> what do you all think is the most overrated marijuana strain there is. id have to say white widow, ik back in its hayday it was great but no one seems to grow good white widow anymore


Definately would have to be them regs/brown/very dark green weed that is sold around the united states in many northern cities. that strain fucking SUCKS. My favorite ATM is Jack Herer and White Rhino


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 30, 2012)

Bad Karma said:


> Oh no, now you've done it.
> You better start running now man, they're gonna be coming after you with torches in hand.
> Run Forrest, run!
> I'll create a distraction for ya buddy.
> ...


You know I have to comment lmao!!! Best og hands down is Tahoe og!!! I don't know how u can underate that!



DROPZILLA said:


> the 3 most overrated:
> OG kush
> Bluedream
> Sour diesel or NY diesel - hate to say it, sour d is one on my favorites


are you serious????NYC diesel and sour diesel are 2 completely different strains the original sour d hands down is very very fire and a heavy yielder!



shrigpiece said:


> Og kush for sure, not saying its bad i like it but all the hype?
> Skunk 1 is underated and about as cheap to by in seeds and easy to grow with fantastic yields.
> Well said on blueberry another underated hero.


Smoke some real Tahoe og and yoU will know what all the hype is about!


Beansly said:


> Og Kush....yep.
> I don't know though. I've had some really great OG...I just can't justify the price. It's still just weed.


Beansly serious? I mean come on! Aren't you growing mr.nice super silver haze that was close to 200? Just saying I can't justify that price .


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## ataxia (Jan 30, 2012)

Super Silver Haze ...tasted like nothing, had an ok high. Takes about four decades to produce flowers it seems.
also to note a shitty strain.....
GHS Kalishkanova or whatever that ak47 knock off is called.


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## cowboylogic (Jan 30, 2012)

Too many to list. Lots of F-1 pollen chucking, toss it a cool name BS out there these days...


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## trichome fiend (Jan 30, 2012)

(thought to self)...I have friends that grow the very exact strains as I but have very different results.


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## canna_420 (Jan 30, 2012)

i found OG from DNA/reserva crap aswell. it was a basic afghani with no stone or high.
But the OG18X Skunk is another thing


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## zildgin (Jan 30, 2012)

I think the problem with ( Hype ) is ppl expect to get high like the they did the first time they smoked weed. And it just isn't going to happen it's just weed ppl thats all. 
I dont care how good it is I am still going to fire up another and maybe 1 more after that. There isnt the strain out there despite the best marketing tactics. Thats going to make you float around the room and feel like superman. And take this into account if it does get that strong then the legal movment is in big trouble!


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## cary schellie (Jan 30, 2012)

ghs Hawaiian snow: nice buds but not 14 week nice


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## BBYY (Jan 30, 2012)

Goldowitz said:


> purple strains


bump
I concur. Alot of "purple" shit is just pure junk.


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## Metal n Weed (Jan 30, 2012)

I agree that OG is severely over rated, and yes I have had the legit OG's before. Good flavor yea, the high at time could be well lacking in some departments for me. I like me og's still but in general way too fucking over rated.


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 30, 2012)

Lmao... I've grown and smoked all types of weed and like I said the best till this day is Tahoe og!!! I really don't know what people are talking about with that.. But I guess it's different strokes for different folks!


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## Metal n Weed (Jan 30, 2012)

Never said I disliked just claimed was over rated, and yeah different strokes for different folks. I am a Socal'er born and raised just such a major OG burnout over here. I have been more on the Platinum Bubba lately.


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## Bigtacofarmer (Jan 30, 2012)

I've had good widow, OG, and blueberry. Although I could never see how the widow got so popular (must be looks). I would say the most over rated strain are those where someone didn't choose from a large population. I know you can get lucky with one but surely not that often. Every pack I ever started had some that were better than others. Breeders should be more up front about how many seeds it takes to score a winner and growers should know that when they start a single bean or even a pack that likely does not represent the full potential. If I had a seed company I would not want people to start single because 3 months later a bunch of know it alls would be comlaining about how it wasn't that great. I've grown packs from Greenhouse (pre 95), Sagmartha, Dutch Passion, Reeferman, DNA, G-13, Soma, Dinafem, Cali Conn, TGA, Serious, friends myself and a few others. I think that great plants are really only 1 in 20 or even worse. When I buy weed from others I alway try to find out how many they killed looking for the good one and its kinda insulting to the breeders and the custumer to see some of the crap even named when I know there must be some good ones in there.
That being said I think the most ever rated would probably be the White Widow. I've smoked it and grown it and its an awesome plant with strong flavor and high, just not the flavor and high that I want. Although if paying top dollar from a stanger I would be glad to score some widow as it don't take much and don't taste bad. Also I grew a single dinafem Moby Dick and that was one of the strongest, easiest, best yeilding plants ever and it looked fantastic, smelled like a gas station and made people ask if I had anything else. After a perfect cure it tasted like lawn clippings and gas. And not that green immature taste but like you just cut the lawn and gas. Not good. But stoney ass shit and arm size cola of crystal covered nugs!


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## JCashman (Jan 30, 2012)

jman0998 said:


> what do you all think is the most overrated marijuana strain there is. id have to say white widow, ik back in its hayday it was great but no one seems to grow good white widow anymore


then you probably havent done Mr Nice Black Widow (aka original White Widow, renamed due to all the knockoff versions being sold today)


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## JCashman (Jan 30, 2012)

i'm with WBW on this one, the Tahoe OG is straight fire in my opinion. one of my top favorite smokes. and then theres the original Sour Diesel which just reminds me of lemonheads that were double dipped in gasoline. i would easily smoke them even if they weren't potent as hell because they just taste so damned good.

if you want over rated,
Green House
Barneys
Doggies Nuts
and any auction site that is selling 10 beans for thousands of dollars


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## alotaball (Jan 30, 2012)

Bigtacofarmer said:


> I've had good widow, OG, and blueberry. Although I could never see how the widow got so popular (must be looks). I would say the most over rated strain are those where someone didn't choose from a large population. I know you can get lucky with one but surely not that often. Every pack I ever started had some that were better than others. Breeders should be more up front about how many seeds it takes to score a winner and growers should know that when they start a single bean or even a pack that likely does not represent the full potential. If I had a seed company I would not want people to start single because 3 months later a bunch of know it alls would be comlaining about how it wasn't that great. I've grown packs from Greenhouse (pre 95), Sagmartha, Dutch Passion, Reeferman, DNA, G-13, Soma, Dinafem, Cali Conn, TGA, Serious, friends myself and a few others. I think that great plants are really only 1 in 20 or even worse. When I buy weed from others I alway try to find out how many they killed looking for the good one and its kinda insulting to the breeders and the custumer to see some of the crap even named when I know there must be some good ones in there.
> That being said I think the most ever rated would probably be the White Widow. I've smoked it and grown it and its an awesome plant with strong flavor and high, just not the flavor and high that I want. Although if paying top dollar from a stanger I would be glad to score some widow as it don't take much and don't taste bad. Also I grew a single dinafem Moby Dick and that was one of the strongest, easiest, best yeilding plants ever and it looked fantastic, smelled like a gas station and made people ask if I had anything else. After a perfect cure it tasted like lawn clippings and gas. And not that green immature taste but like you just cut the lawn and gas. Not good. But stoney ass shit and arm size cola of crystal covered nugs!


This is spot on .. its not about overrated strains.. every strain that has a popular name out there is GREAT.. but there are WAY to many people who order 1 seed... or 1 pack of seeds .. grow it and say ..wow it wasnt that good.. when someone else gets a pack that has a GREAT pheno .. and its the best thing they ever had. Its not about strain name.. its about finding the right pheno in each strain.. I have 2 kinds of white widow.. one is amazing.... every time I smoke it .. i am so impressed.. the other one I got from a freebie on attitude that I grew out.. is not that great.. if it was the only widow I ever tried.. I would prob be on here saying its overrated.... 

SO its all about what pheno you get of that particular strain... 

I will say.. OG is the most overrated term/strain name its ridiculous .. Im in so cal .. and everything is called a OG.. Cat piss OG ..Obama OG.. its fucking ridiculous


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## steampick (Jan 30, 2012)

They're ALL fucking overrated.


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## Nepaljam x Oaxaca (Jan 30, 2012)

jman0998 said:


> what do you all think is the most overrated marijuana strain there is. id have to say white widow, ik back in its hayday it was great but no one seems to grow good white widow anymore


every strain nirvana offers has bad genitics, long flowering times and the end result is nothing like the pic they supply or the description.


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## shrigpiece (Jan 30, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> Lmao... I've grown and smoked all types of weed and like I said the best till this day is Tahoe og!!! I really don't know what people are talking about with that.. But I guess it's different strokes for different folks!


Getting me a pack in a month or so. gotta get my current seeds germed and grown out to make way for a few new future seedstock. Kannabia special, CC Tahoe og, sensi skunk 1 and ET bubba 76


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## CSI Stickyicky (Jan 30, 2012)

Anything KUSH! I like kush, but its only one strain of many, and it seems to get a lot of hype. I prefer haze based hybrids over kush hybrids any day.


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## cary schellie (Jan 30, 2012)

if I got to go thru more than 1 pack of seeds to find a winner, I try a different breeder or strain


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## BeaverHuntr (Jan 30, 2012)

canna_420 said:


> i found OG from DNA/reserva crap aswell. it was a basic afghani with no stone or high.
> But the OG18X Skunk is another thing


OG18 is from the SFV cut and I must say OG strains are everywhere in Cali but I can definitely say if you grow any OG with the SFV cut you will not be disappointed the taste and stoney vibe is great.


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## BeaverHuntr (Jan 30, 2012)

JCashman said:


> i'm with WBW on this one, the Tahoe OG is straight fire in my opinion. one of my top favorite smokes. and then theres the original Sour Diesel which just reminds me of lemonheads that were double dipped in gasoline. i would easily smoke them even if they weren't potent as hell because they just taste so damned good.
> 
> if you want over rated,
> Green House
> ...



Greem House may be over rated but they hit the nail on the head with Super Lemon Haze.


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## SketchyGrower (Jan 30, 2012)

BeaverHuntr said:


> Greem House may be over rated but they hit the nail on the head with Super Lemon Haze.


Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and again..


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## Bigtacofarmer (Jan 30, 2012)

cary schellie said:


> if I got to go thru more than 1 pack of seeds to find a winner, I try a different breeder or strain


I see the point there but if I buy 4 packs I can almost guarantee I get a better one than you. I love it when every bean rocks but all that really means is that there is some even better ones in there and if I get the better seed then anyone growing out the singles is likely degrading the reputation of the better pheno. I think its bullshit when you have to buy multiple packs to find one good plant. But I makes sense that if you had honest breeders that explain pheno selection a little better (I see alot of the newer companys doing this) I wouldn't mind buying a bunch at the right price to find a true winner (just warn me if most of them are not up to par, I don't mind if I know first). All I know is when I find a kick ass pheno I want to buy another pack and find a better one.


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## Nepaljam x Oaxaca (Jan 30, 2012)

CSI Stickyicky said:


> Anything KUSH! I like kush, but its only one strain of many, and it seems to get a lot of hype. I prefer haze based hybrids over kush hybrids any day.


hybrids are unstable..


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## SSHZ (Jan 30, 2012)

Disagree with Beaver on Reserva Privada's OG Kush #18.........when grown correctly, it's a smelly beast that yields well and is quite potent. I've grown it 3 times now and people love it, as do I.


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## welshsmoker (Jan 30, 2012)

on my fifth generation cutting of bulldogs northern light at the mo that stuff is awesome, dna rocklock stank, but done fuck all for me.


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## cotchept (Jan 30, 2012)

Sour Diesel(buzz last for 30mins tops)
Jack the Ripper(great taste,smell, and high but horrible yield)


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 30, 2012)

cotchept said:


> Sour Diesel(buzz last for 30mins tops)
> Jack the Ripper(great taste,smell, and high but horrible yield)


Are you serious?
Jack the ripper is one of subs heavy yielders and sour diesel buzz last longer than that.. I'm growing it and I live in the city of it!


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## Jogro (Jan 30, 2012)

ChronicObsession said:


> Definately would have to be them regs/brown/very dark green weed that is sold around the united states in many northern cities. that strain fucking SUCKS.


Well, the Mexican "schwagg" you refer to may not be very good, but pretty much everyone knows that its not, so I don't think its fair to say its "overrated". Nobody is going around saying this is great stuff!

What I would say, having tried some truly excellent herb grown from "shwagg" bagseeds, is that the schwagg is actually one of the most UNDERRATED strains! The problem with the schwagg is that its grow outdoors in Mexico in big fields, allowed to get seeded, harvested before its peak, cured badly, pressed into bricks for smuggling, transported through 110 degree heat, stored badly, then sold months later. 

Take the same exact strains, grow them seedlessly, harvest at their peak, cure and store properly, and you might be quite astonished at how good the stuff can be. 



ChronosaurusRex said:


> In my opinion, the most over-rated strain is White Widow(75% of all seed banks offer a knock off of it)


That's the whole problem right there. . .the knockoffs are not nearly as good as the original. 
Go try some of Mr. Nice's "Black Widow" and I think you'll find it quite a bit better.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jan 31, 2012)

Nepaljam x Oaxaca said:


> every strain nirvana offers has bad genitics, long flowering times and the end result is nothing like the pic they supply or the description.


true about not resembling the pictures they post on the internet, they actually rip those from other breeders of whom have strains of the same name. If you really want to see their gear it should be in a grow journal, genetics are probably sketchy at best but the end result is mostly good from what ive grown, though i wouldn't say any of their gear is overrated.


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## ant1408 (Jan 31, 2012)

Overrated:
blue dream
ww
og's

i really hate blue dream


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## Brick Top (Jan 31, 2012)

jman0998 said:


> what do you all think is the most overrated marijuana strain there is. id have to say white widow, ik back in its hayday it was great but no one seems to grow good white widow anymore


The main reason that some are not impressed by "White Widow" is because they grow "White Widow" knockoffs rather than growing the original genetics which was, years back, renamed Black Widow and can only be found from Mr. Nice Seeds. 

Try growing the Real McCoy once and then get back to me and let me know how unimpressed you are and how you believe it to be overrated. 

Sure the original has been around a while, but it's still better than most of the garbage that has been released by the multitude of pollen chuckers that pawn themselves off as being true professional breeders. 

You are the absolutely perfect example of what is wrong with so many growers when it comes to picking what strain or strains to grow. They wrongly assume that each and every year there is a continual improvement in overall potency, and that some new strains have large increases, and that any strain, regardless of how successful it was/is, if it has a little dust on it's name then it cannot be as good as the latest mutt some talentless pollen chucker released. 

I would bet my left nut that if someone secretly took a handful of fairly old second and third place Cup winners, not even first place winners, and renamed them with some keen name and re-released them, many growers would go totally Lady Gaga over them and say they are the greatest thing since the invention of fire, or the wheel. What's more, most or all the strains would in fact be better than most of the trash that has been released since their second or third place wins. 

It would be a mistake to underestimate a highly famous strain just because it has a little dust on it's name, and it would be an even bigger mistake to put to much faith in some 'new kid on the block' breeder or a 'Wal-Mart level breeder' and their latest Heinz 57 Variety mutt release coming close to being true quality genetics.


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## Brick Top (Jan 31, 2012)

shrigpiece said:


> Skunk 1 is underated and about as cheap to by in seeds and easy to grow with fantastic yields.


Amen! 

While it is old, the very first Cannabis Cup Winner, it is still better than a lot of the trash that is released. When comparing THC levels alone, which a a HORRIBLE way to pick or rate genetics, it will not match up with a fair number, but what it gives you is still high quality smoke, lots of it and with tremendous ease, all at a very low price. 

The last time I looked Sensi Seeds Skunk #1 was in the low $30-range for five feminized seeds, roughly $60.00 for ten and in the low to mid $40.00 range for ten regular seeds. At those prices, and considering all that you get for such a small amount, I would purchase Sensi Seeds Skunk #1 over all, or most anything else, in the same general price range. 

It is a great value, especially for a first time or newer grower who isn't experienced enough yet to feel comfortable shelling out two, three, four or more times as much money for professional genetics. 

Of all the older strains it has likely been used to make more newer crosses, and or is a part of more newer crosses, than any other older strain. If not, it is without question in the top five of older strains that have been used to make newer crosses, and or is part of more newer crosses. And it wasn't picked to be used that often because it is low grade. 

It is sort of like a veteran athlete, one that isn't quite as fast as the new guys on the team, but when the pressure is on and real results are needed, unlike the newer slightly faster athletes, you can count on the veteran to come through for you.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jan 31, 2012)

most underrated strain i've come across is probably Armageddon (homegrown fantaseeds, not doggies nuts)


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## SketchyGrower (Jan 31, 2012)

Hey brick top, is the original white widow(black widow) the current one used in the G13xWW being offered by Mr.Nice? Asking as I purchased three packs and that was one of them. Assuming it would have to be... To be fair to the original I have cracked the following with very much dislike... Hence my current opinion.
Dutch passion-white widow (pine)
Female seeds- white widow (pine)
Pyramid seeds- white widow (pine)
Smoked in Amsterdam in 2004 at the gray area coffe shop then again in colorado.....pine all the way... I was starting to notice a trend in the smell n taste department..(not a fan) is this a characteristic of the original..?....umm again this is all assuming you have some experience with the original


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## BullwinkleOG (Jan 31, 2012)

OG Kush is definitely not overrated if you're getting the true strain. My tolerance is so high that I no longer really rate buds on their high, its hard to get a good buzz unless I eat a jumbo on the rise (7.5 gram dwt cannabis flowers) however OG Kush is an amazing smelling strain. Even now growing if I rub the stem it fills your scents with a nice sour skunk smell. I would have to say the most overrated strain out here right now is girl scout cookies. Its an indica dominant strain I believe it has a very good smell but it had so much hype there's no way it couldn't have been a letdown. I'm growing white widow right now and I haven't tried it yet but when I was a youngster everyone had white widow or claimed to have it. I doubt I even have the true cut (got a darkheart clone from harborside). I decided if I want to try it I gotta grow it myself. On the other hand Romulan IMO is a legendary strain that is underrated around here. It's an Indica and it will knock you on your ass but it is damn potent in the head too.


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## Brick Top (Jan 31, 2012)

SketchyGrower said:


> Hey brick top, is the original white widow(black widow) the current one used in the G13xWW being offered by Mr.Nice?


The strain name is, according to the Mr. Nice site, G13Widow ... some seedbanks call it G13 X Widow ... neither Black nor White is found in the name on the Mr. Nice Seeds site, or other places I can remember seeing the strain, but the genetics are Afghan/skunk, South Indian, Brazilian .. and the Brazilian sativa crossed with the South Indian indica is Black Widow ... and I HIGHLY doubt that Scott Blakey (Shantibaba) would EVER use some knockoff of someone elses in place of his original genetics.




*G13 x Widow* »»» G13 x Black Widow
G13
Indica
 
Black Widow The Original
White Widow
»»» Brazil x India
Brazil »»» Sativa
India »»» Indica


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## Brick Top (Jan 31, 2012)

BullwinkleOG said:


> On the other hand Romulan IMO is a legendary strain that is underrated around here. It's an Indica and it will knock you on your ass but it is damn potent in the head too.


(Reprint)

*History*

Rumors and guesses on the parentage of Romulan abound. Claims that the Romulan is a pure Indica (Afghani/Kush) are mistaken. While there may be some genetics from Indica (Afghani) varieties, anyone who has tried the Romulan knows that the mind warping effect is that of plant with strong sativa traits.

`Romulan Joe` and I have had many conversations on the origin of this strain. According to him the original breeders started growing in there backyard and greenhouse in the 50`s, after being introduced to cannabis in the Korean war and bringing home seeds to Victoria. They struggled to grow and acclimatise these seeds selecting the faster flowering shorter plants from the tall lanky Korean strain. When the late sixties, early seventies rolled around they began trying Colombian and Mexican seeds and hybridized varieties from these. In the mid 80`s when the Afghani strains swept into North America they briefly tried hybridizing with these but eventually when back to selecting the traits they liked in there old genetics. They worked mainly with Sativa genetics but always selected shorter squatter phenotypes which has made many people think that it is purely Indica strain. But whatever its true genealogy is, I`m sure we can all agree on its great taste and high.


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## Jogro (Jan 31, 2012)

Brick Top said:


> The main reason that some are not impressed by "White Widow" is because they grow "White Widow" knockoffs rather than growing the original genetics which was, years back, renamed Black Widow and can only be found from Mr. Nice Seeds.
> 
> Try growing the Real McCoy once and then get back to me and let me know how unimpressed you are and how you believe it to be overrated.
> 
> ...


Agreeing heartily with all of this, and just to expand, max modern hybrid strain potency has probably been achieved over 20 years ago. (I say "modern hybrid" to contrast with max pure sativa/pure indica landrace potency, which was probably achieved independently in many parts of the globe HUNDREDS of years ago). Strains most definitely are NOT getting more potent every year. 

Just in terms of absolute potency, "Williams Wonder" from 1990 (or earlier) is probably as strong as anything from today, and even a good cut of Northern Lights is still better than much of the stuff out there nowadays in terms of potency. 

I think the biggest improvements since the 90s are in terms of FLAVOR than in pure potency. 

Personally, I don't put much stock in "cannabis cups" since in my opinion they are largely formats designed to market seed companies (and more specifically to hype seed companies that advertise with the contest sponsors) rather than events that truly evaluate strain quality. If you look at the list of winners from the High Times Cannabis Cups from the last twenty years, the same company names come up again and again, and. . .surprise. . .by pure coincidence, they also happen to be big advertisers in the magazine. 

Anyway, since this was brought up, as you might have heard, someone did exactly what you suggested above. AK-47, a strain that first placed in a HT Cannabis cup in 1994, just took third place in the recent HT cannabis cup. If you believe that placing in cannabis cups actually says something meaningful about the strains in question (and again, I'm a bit skeptical), then this does say something about the longevity of the old-school genetics. 

I'd make a simple first-principles argument. The fact that strains like Skunk #1 and Northern lights *even still exist at all*, says something pretty convincing about their quality. If the stuff from today was really head and shoulders above these 20-30+ year old strains, then the older strains would be extinct. . .nobody would be growing them anymore, let alone breeding them or selling the seeds. 

On Skunk #1, that strain forms the basis of many, if not most, of today's "super" strains, including the Jack Herer strains, supposedly all the "Cheese" strains, and probably also all the "dog" and "diesel" strains. 

Yeah, I think you could do a lot worse for $40.


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## SketchyGrower (Jan 31, 2012)

Brick Top said:


> The strain name is, according to the Mr. Nice site, G13Widow ... some seedbanks call it G13 X Widow ... neither Black nor White is found in the name on the Mr. Nice Seeds site, or other places I can remember seeing the strain, but the genetics are Afghan/skunk, South Indian, Brazilian .. and the Brazilian sativa crossed with the South Indian indica is Black Widow ... and I HIGHLY doubt that Scott Blakey (Shantibaba) would EVER use some knockoff of someone elses in place of his original genetics.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I see that your correct on that it's simply called widow on Mr.Nice's site... attitude has it listed as "White"
http://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/mr-nice-g13-widow/prod_1229.html

No, matter I'll be popping these soon enough... hopefully there is not a piney smell lol


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## JJFOURTWENTY (Jan 31, 2012)

It's been a nice read these last couple of pages! Thanks guys!!


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## alphawolf.hack (Jan 31, 2012)

yep yep jogrow you summed it up best. all these strains come from original sources of heirloom/land-race strains the key is to get an original and find the best one (strongest smoke smell taste and bag appeal) so you could have a 1000 afgani and 2-3 would be super excellent so this is to say all hybrids and super weed come from average weed over time. this is why i will still throw down some bagseed to grow cuz if your looking for the new skunk#1 your gonna have to grow a shit ton of afgani or get real lucky.

so this poses a new question is it better to buy seeds for a slightly better product, fem seeds breeder seeds(fairly homogenous in phenotypes) or grow random/reg seeds hope you find a true keeper?


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## SketchyGrower (Jan 31, 2012)

alphawolf.hack said:


> so this poses a new question is it better to buy seeds for a slightly better product, fem seeds breeder seeds(fairly homogenous in phenotypes) or grow random/reg seeds hope you find a true keeper?


I say do what sounds fun.. for me I couldn't even tell you where to buy smoke from anymore... I've been out of that side of the game for a good amount of time now. If I want something new it's coming from a seedbank...


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## cannabiscuit7 (Jan 31, 2012)

anything sold thats
20 or more a gram.OVERATED @alphawolf bagseeds you have NO idea what traits were passed on and literally have no idea what it is except for the bud it came with.Fem'd seeds you actually know what your growing and therefore can give them what they need..so idk...i think it all really depends on grower


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## st0wandgrow (Jan 31, 2012)

jman0998 said:


> what do you all think is the most overrated marijuana strain there is. id have to say white widow, ik back in its hayday it was great but no one seems to grow good white widow anymore


I can only speak for the plants that I have personally grown from seed. I don't know the genetics of a bud that is purchased from a dispensary, or a cutting that has come from someone else, so I won't comment on anything that I haven't personally ordered from seed and grown myself.

I always buy a 10 (or 11) pack, and run them through looking for a female keeper. Of the 20+ strains I've grown, I'd say the most disappointing was Master Kush from Dutch Passion. The yield was excellent, but I don't really care about yield that much. There was a lot of variation between phenotypes, but even the best phenotype of the bunch was a very nondescript smell and taste, with a very weak high. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone other than someone looking for a big commercial yield with a relatively short flower.


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## g13skunk (Jan 31, 2012)

nevilles haze from female seeds


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## Nepaljam x Oaxaca (Jan 31, 2012)

nevilles haze is amazing but its tall as hell and takes a long time to flower. greenhouse stole it for a reason


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## Brick Top (Jan 31, 2012)

Jogro said:


> Agreeing heartily with all of this, and just to expand, max modern hybrid strain potency has probably been achieved over 20 years ago. (I say "modern hybrid" to contrast with max pure sativa/pure indica landrace potency, which was probably achieved independently in many parts of the globe HUNDREDS of years ago). Strains most definitely are NOT getting more potent every year.
> 
> Just in terms of absolute potency, "Williams Wonder" from 1990 (or earlier) is probably as strong as anything from today, and even a good cut of Northern Lights is still better than much of the stuff out there nowadays in terms of potency.
> 
> ...



That was damn near the exact same thing as I have written a number of times on a number of different grow sites. 

Regardless of what MANY believe, there has NOT been any significant potency increase in years, many years. Now and then a strain will be slightly more potent, but that's all, and that's not many and it doesn't happen often. 

For years what we have gotten, for the most part, are gimmicks. We got different colors and different odors and different flavors and we got feminized seeds and we got auto-flowering seeds .... and why? Because that was about all that breeders could give us because they couldn't give us increased potency. 

And the Cup thing. Scott Blakey (AKA Shantibaba) saw it way back when his White Widow and White Rhino and Great White Shark and El Nino, etc. were winning Cups like mad, and Nevil was snagging them too, that it was already turning into a farce, a dog and pony show and that strains were beginning to not win by merit alone, so he said he wouldn't do any more competitions ... which in part fueled the Shantibaba - Arjan Green House Seeds breakup. 

Winning a Cup means next to nothing now beyond the advertising and bragging rights that sucker in those who don't know any better than to believe there is still validity in a Cup win. 

Someone was always given at least a second or third place win if they advertised enough, and or paid off the right people, like Arjan was caught trying to do one year and got Green House Seeds banned from the competition that year .. which was the straw that broke the camel's back, or as Kelly Bundy so eloquently put it, "the squaw that stroked the camel's sack," and led to Nevil selling out his portion of the Green House Seeds Coffee Shop and bolting, with his genetics, just as Shantibaba did before him from Green House Seeds. 

All a Cup win is, is the chance to make use of a ton of propaganda for a year and claim to have the greatest strain in the world right now, but that chance was bought and paid for and NOT actually won and not won on merit and merit alone.


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## SSHZ (Jan 31, 2012)

Remember, the cup is run by High Times and they routinely favor seed banks and breeders that advertise in their magazine.


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## smellzlikeskunkyum (Jan 31, 2012)

Purple anything... Kush... Diesel. people dont understand that other strains are just as potent and tasty if not better. it really DOES depend on how u grow it, most genetics on the market nowadays wil give u a potent tasty product. plus people dont understand what "kush" REALLY means. og kush is not a true kush. and too many different diesel strains now... never know what you'll get.
Nirvana Chrystal is one of the most potent and easiest to grow strains ive ever had the pleasure of experiencing. Chrystal should be MUCH more popular, sweet fruity taste, powerful mixed high, very vigorous and easy to grow, fast flowering, hardly any leaves at all, filthy covered in trichomes, great yield.... i mean what else can u ask for really?

just thought id aslo add, i have smoked a good super lemon haze bud once, but i think its a terrible strain overall... thats another highly over -rated strain IMO. Dj shorts blueberry didnt impress me either, from multiple growers and phenos too.


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## cotchept (Jan 31, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> Are you serious?
> Jack the ripper is one of subs heavy yielders and sour diesel buzz last longer than that.. I'm growing it and I live in the city of it!


Sour Diesel might be the most overrated strain in the past few years. So much awful outdoor grown SourD floods the market and even a nice indoor finished version doesn't have much going for it other than smell and taste. I do like some Sour crosses though. But what do I know? You live in the city of it. Not seeing the connection there btw, sour d was not bred in nyc. Neither was NYC Diesel for that matter. Another overrated strain. 

As for the JTR, maybe lower shorter phenos yield well but this one that I'm running right now that goes 10 weeks sure doesn't. Not a knock on Subcool either. Ran the Querkle right next to it that I love. It put out about 3x as much as the JTR did.


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## Fatty R Buckle (Jan 31, 2012)

T.H. Seeds Darkstar , blue berry and fem seeds...


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## drstrangebud (Jan 31, 2012)

smellzlikeskunkyum said:


> Nirvana Chrystal is one of the most potent and easiest to grow strains ive ever had the pleasure of experiencing. Chrystal should be MUCH more popular, sweet fruity taste, powerful mixed high, very vigorous and easy to grow, fast flowering, hardly any leaves at all, filthy covered in trichomes, great yield.... i mean what else can u ask for really.


I&#8217;ve grown Chrystal off and on since 99; love the strain it&#8217;s one of nirvana&#8217;s winners for sure. I always do two 10 pack regular then sex out and flower the female after taking cuttings. I then select the best clones from the fast and strongest mother to carry on. I had a female that finished in 47 days grew it for 3 years tell the clones degraded over time [genic drift]. Wish I&#8217;d know how to make female seed back then. I just bought 20 back in Oct the females have been flowering for 29 days now and the progress of the 9 female are all over the map. I have one that is far ahead in weight and maturity than the rest. I agree that more info should given out on pheno types from the breeders


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## Miyagi (Feb 1, 2012)

Last year I spent a bit of time in the dam specifically just testing as many "legendary" strains as possible and as many variants of each strain as possible. I have a very high tollerance and was disappointed with almost everything. Some of the legends were nice but not impressive. Couldn't find a Widow or AK that impressed me, only found one place with a nice blueberry pheno that actually had a little colour and smell but was more amazed by Barney's Blue cheese. My girl says all weed smells like weed but when I opened the bag she said "Wow that smells like blueberries!" And it did, far more than even the best blueberry and was tastier and stronger. Tried at least 2 other Blue Cheese and was not impressed. Barney's vanilla kush has an impressive vanilla aroma but tastes like arse. Maui Wowie was shit, out of 96 documented strains on that trip, only about 5 made the wishlist and the only ones that blew me away were the old Nev's Haze and Northern Lights. No impressive skunks or anything so in my opinion it's all overated unless you are getting a kick arse clone or a lucky keeper from a seed. 
Peace y'all!


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Feb 1, 2012)

because the weed you purchase at the Dam gets no love, its just commercial grade.


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## hazey grapes (Feb 1, 2012)

DIESEL!

i've had some unkown diesel i scored and an onyx UFO that i hated because of the vile abomination to mother earth truck stop oil stain taste that doesn't agree with my supertaster extra taste buds one bit. the bag diesel had at least a decent buzz and the onyx had a freakin' awesome buzz, but that global warming celebration flavor has just got to go. i'll never get how anyone can think sucking on a diesel tailpipe is "tasty" when it's foul to me. now take some ORIGINAL burn your lips hot crushed red pepper tasting ORIGINAL kali mist, THAT's delicious to me, but apparently all the can't stand anything spicy wusses ruined THAT so it could be demoted to "spicy & fruity" now. BOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! those are the same can't taste worth beans smokers that probably like diesel... it isn't spicy, so foul doesn't bother them as much

my FIRST response was actually blueberry and is probably the more accurate reply as it was THE most favorited strain by a couple votes against haze in an informal thread a few years ago. i'm not at all impressed by it myself. the buzz has too much couchlock, comparable to skunk #1 and the flavor isn't all that special either the 2 different times i scored some. blueberry isn't my favorite flavor in the world to begin with, but i was surprised at just how weak the flavor really is and how artificial it is too. it tastes exatly like you have one grain of artificially flavored sugar on your tongue. i've had several strains with stronger & more authentic flavors like super cali haze's grapes, pineapple, overly floral lavender and even disgusting black licorice tasting durban poison. the most positive thing i can say about blueberry is that it's better than all of the detestable nothing but skunk & stone crap that pollutes MOST of the streets. i'd take almost any strain i've grown myself including not so yummy cigar wrapper tasting haze skunk over that any day for superior zero couchlock buzzes and some strains are even tasty too. even joey weed's extinct haze pheno C99s with their grape undertones are better as the grape flavor is about as strong and the buzz is better too.


REALLY i just like to point my finger and say ALL indica & stone dominant strains that are most of the market suck and as such are overrated by popularity they don't deserve, but you asked to name names


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## Miyagi (Feb 1, 2012)

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> because the weed you purchase at the Dam gets no love, its just commercial grade.


Some, yes, esp if you are a cup judge but there is still a lot of good weed there, as good as any I've come across in Canada, US, NZ, AU, etc. Just not up to the hype for someone who grows and smokes the best dank all day!


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## Jogro (Feb 1, 2012)

SSHZ said:


> Remember, the cup is run by High Times and they routinely favor seed banks and breeders that advertise in their magazine.


Agreeing with above, I'm not privy to the entry criteria, but I'm pretty sure that the various contests in the cup are NOT open to all comers, and that the entries are NOT judged in a truly "blinded" manner. 

My question is, in the last 15 years has there been even one winner of the HTCC who was NOT a major advertiser in the magazine? 

I think it would be a pretty interesting exercise to compare the cup winners in any given year with the amount of square inches of ad copy purchased by the company in question during the previous year and see how well they correlated. I bet there is a pretty good correlation.


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## Jer La Mota (Feb 1, 2012)

I find the Industry has been flooded with Kush this, Kush that .. at the end,Kush is Indica cannabis from Afghanistan and such, the word Kush has been sensationalized to a point of boredom imo 
Other than that an overrated strain is one that gets too much promotions .. from the likes of .. GHSC, Barneys's, DNA ..


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## RawBudzski (Feb 1, 2012)

Kush is everywhere because of Demand. PPL just like Indicas.

Here in so cal, Indica is worth more than sativa to many. Smoke & price wise. So over time, many OGs, Kushs, and indica dom hybrids become more & more popular.


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## peacenikchick (Feb 1, 2012)

Greenhouse's White Rhino, Big Bang, El Nino, won't grow them again, sorry ghs! but liked their white widow, himalayan gold


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## ResidualFreedom (Feb 1, 2012)

peacenikchick said:


> Greenhouse's White Rhino, Big Bang, *El Nino*, *won't grow* them *again*, sorry ghs! but liked their white widow, himalayan gold


 couldn't agree more... got a killer super lemon haze going right now though... such a bold lemon smell its amazing..


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## Smorg (Feb 1, 2012)

So reading this thread, the ones to grow for sure are: 

Sensi Seeds - Skunk #1 

Mr Nice Seeds - Black Widow

GHS - Super Lemon Haze

Nirvana - Chrysttal

Good selection right there?


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## Brick Top (Feb 1, 2012)

> Originally Posted by *Brick Top*
> 
> The strain name is, according to the Mr. Nice site, G13Widow ... some seedbanks call it G13 X Widow ... neither Black nor White is found in the name on the Mr. Nice Seeds site, or other places I can remember seeing the strain, but the genetics are Afghan/skunk, South Indian, Brazilian .. and the Brazilian sativa crossed with the South Indian indica is Black Widow ... and I HIGHLY doubt that Scott Blakey (Shantibaba) would EVER use some knockoff of someone elses in place of his original genetics.
> 
> ...





SketchyGrower said:


> I see that your correct on that it's simply called widow on Mr.Nice's site... attitude has it listed as "White"
> http://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/mr-nice-g13-widow/prod_1229.html
> 
> No, matter I'll be popping these soon enough... hopefully there is not a piney smell lol


I did look on Attitude and it's called "Mr Nice Seeds G13 Widow" there, I also saw where someone did make the error to type; "*Genetics :* G13 x White Widow" in the description. With as much as people have heard about and talked about "White Widow" over the years I'm sure that it's an almost instinctual thing to call it "White" by many .. and that likely led to what would equate to a typing error.

I feel highly confident that you can trust the breeder, Scott Blakey (AKA Shantibaba), to be the more accurate one about the strain between himself and Attitude.


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## Olde Toby (Feb 1, 2012)

big fatjoint said:


> Well I have to agree about blueberry The dutch passion version is midgrade at best and dj's has lots of variation but the strongest plant I have smoked to date was a crinkly blueberry from dj short! It was my first ever grow and did not know nothing and still that little bastard was strong!!
> I am still looking for something like that plant 15 years later!


I'm having that same exact situation right now. About 4 yrs ago I let go the dankest, sweetest, fruitiest blueberry (DJ Short) I've ever had because I needed the space to start new strains. Bad move, I've tried Dutch passion & quite a few others (D.P. was the worst)& now I'm halfway through a10 pack of DJ Short trying to nail down that same old pheno. So far 1 male, 2 of the weak green pheno and 2 slightly fruity purples 1 of which produced hermies at about 6-7 weeks. Still lookin tho


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## SketchyGrower (Feb 1, 2012)

Brick Top said:


> I did look on Attitude and it's called "Mr Nice Seeds G13 Widow" there, I also saw where someone did make the error to type; "*Genetics :* G13 x White Widow" in the description. With as much as people have heard about and talked about "White Widow" over the years I'm sure that it's an almost instinctual thing to call it "White" by many .. and that likely led to what would equate to a typing error.
> 
> I feel highly confident that you can trust the breeder, Scott Blakey (AKA Shantibaba), to be the more accurate one about the strain
> between himself and Attitude.


Right on brick top.

Do you have a favorite strain?


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## canna_420 (Feb 2, 2012)

RawBudzski said:


> Kush is everywhere because of Demand. PPL just like Indicas.
> 
> Here in so cal, Indica is worth more than sativa to many. Smoke & price wise. So over time, many OGs, Kushs, and indica dom hybrids become more & more popular.



a true kush like citral as a sativa like stone. so sativas will take a back seat over growing time.

companies are just re releasing citral hybrids


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## hazey grapes (Feb 2, 2012)

> *Here in so cal, Indica is worth more than sativa to many. Smoke & price wise. So over time, many OGs, Kushs, and indica dom hybrids become more & more popular. *


OUTSIDE so-cal and other med use markets, you can't get ANYTHING that gets you high ANYWHERE. it's because of that that i despise indicas. i haven't been able to buy anything that gets me high for over 25 years in 3 different states. in parts of NY in particular, EVERYTHING is just another skunky afghani with the only differences being potency probably because it's flooded by warehouse schwag. the ONLY time i've gotten high was whenever i could get some pissweak mexican brick up until the mid 90s or a few times when i got smoked out by people who either grew or knew a grower with some actual pride or love in their gear and even then, i wasn't able to BUY anything and gave up bidding on some original kali mist at $120 for an eigth. if you're paying MORE for indicrap, that is beyond fucked up and i have a hard time believing that's even true as indicas are more productive. maybe EVERYTHING you smoke is grown outdoors where people don't want smell of death strains drawing attention. otherwise, people are growing the good stuff because they can. indicas are actually a little less popular than sativas where smokers are given the choice. outside of so-cal, nope... no choice... you'll take the same old same old skunk crap and deal with it. the ONLY way to get high is to DIY in most of the world. i have a hard time wrapping my head around complaints of "too much sativa". it sounds like someone saying _*"i'm so fucking sick and tired of too much pussy! every time i step outside my door, some supermodel wants to get laid!"*_

i'd offer to trade places if i didn't have issues with california, though one of the times i DID get high a couple years ago, when i asked what it was, i was simply told "mendo". i didn't score anything that night either.


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## Jogro (Feb 2, 2012)

Jer La Mota said:


> I find the Industry has been flooded with Kush this, Kush that .. at the end,Kush is Indica cannabis from Afghanistan and such, the word Kush has been sensationalized to a point of boredom imo
> Other than that an overrated strain is one that gets too much promotions .. from the likes of .. GHSC, Barneys's, DNA ..


There is no regulation of what is called Kush, nor is there any enforced consistency of strain labelling in the cannabis world. So ultimately a "Kush" is just any strain that a breeder or seller decides to call "Kush", irrespective of its actual genetics. 

I believe that in practice, most of these so-called "Kush" strains are indica-sativa hybrids; I don't know if any of them are actually TRUE "Kush" strains in the sense that they are pure subcontinental ("indica") landrace strains from Pakistan or Afghanistan. 

Those pure indica strains are still available (eg Afghani #1, Maple Leaf Indica, etc); they just typically aren't called "Kush".

At another level, "Kush" just happens to be this decades buzzword for strong weed. In recent previous decades, the "in" terms were "kind" (now replaced by "dank"), "skunk", and of course "chronic".


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## STACKB (Feb 2, 2012)

outdoor gran daddy ... Just cause it has the smell it will never be the same as juicy indoor nugs! On a commercial scale..


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## thedude27 (Feb 2, 2012)

SketchyGrower said:


> Right on brick top.
> 
> Do you have a favorite strain?


Bricktop only grows landrace sativas recovered from a commune hippy's bandana circa 1960, not any of your Wal-mart seeds. lol 



I will agree to a point on many of the purple strains most suck. Some definitely do not, however.


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## althor (Feb 3, 2012)

hazey grapes said:


> OUTSIDE so-cal and other med use markets, you can't get ANYTHING that gets you high ANYWHERE. it's because of that that i despise indicas. i haven't been able to buy anything that gets me high for over 25 years in 3 different states. in parts of NY in particular, EVERYTHING is just another skunky afghani with the only differences being potency probably because it's flooded by warehouse schwag. the ONLY time i've gotten high was whenever i could get some pissweak mexican brick up until the mid 90s or a few times when i got smoked out by people who either grew or knew a grower with some actual pride or love in their gear and even then, i wasn't able to BUY anything and gave up bidding on some original kali mist at $120 for an eigth. if you're paying MORE for indicrap, that is beyond fucked up and i have a hard time believing that's even true as indicas are more productive. maybe EVERYTHING you smoke is grown outdoors where people don't want smell of death strains drawing attention. otherwise, people are growing the good stuff because they can. indicas are actually a little less popular than sativas where smokers are given the choice. outside of so-cal, nope... no choice... you'll take the same old same old skunk crap and deal with it. the ONLY way to get high is to DIY in most of the world. i have a hard time wrapping my head around complaints of "too much sativa". it sounds like someone saying _*"i'm so fucking sick and tired of too much pussy! every time i step outside my door, some supermodel wants to get laid!"*_
> 
> i'd offer to trade places if i didn't have issues with california, though one of the times i DID get high a couple years ago, when i asked what it was, i was simply told "mendo". i didn't score anything that night either.


 Same guy that gives the 1000 word smoke reports and grow reports. More he talks the more the truth comes out. Doesnt smoke indica, cant get sativa except for once every few years.. Doesnt grow his own. So basically a guy that smokes a little weed every few years and has no clue what it even is giving 1000 word grow and smoke reports.... remember this.


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## FriendlyTokez (Feb 3, 2012)

hazey grapes said:


> the ONLY time i've gotten high was whenever i could get some pissweak mexican brick up until the mid 90s or a few times when i got smoked out by people who either grew or knew a grower with some actual pride or love in their gear and even then, i wasn't able to BUY anything and gave up bidding on some original kali mist at $120 for an eigth. if you're paying MORE for indicrap, that is beyond fucked up and i have a hard time believing that's even true as indicas are more productive. maybe EVERYTHING you smoke is grown outdoors where people don't want smell of death strains drawing attention. otherwise, people are growing the good stuff because they can. indicas are actually a little less popular than sativas where smokers are given the choice.


I'm not too sure what you're ranting about here but you aren't seeing the whole picture. Sativas = actually less popular due to the long flowering time. That being said, there is a small subset of hardcore sativa lovers on the west coast. 

Indicas = immeasurably important for lots of people, especially those needing it for pain relief, nausea, anxiety or other mood disorders. That high CBD content is what's known to kill cancer cells and prevent nerve disorders. 

The fact that you are saying mex brick is the only thing that satisfies you is also pretty laughable.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Feb 3, 2012)

You hating on indica's for no reason, if pot isn't a drug you can get high or enjoy anymore, please quit and stop whining to us about it.


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## althor (Feb 3, 2012)

FriendlyTokez said:


> I'm not too sure what you're ranting about here but you aren't seeing the whole picture. Sativas = actually less popular due to the long flowering time. That being said, there is a small subset of hardcore sativa lovers on the west coast.
> 
> Indicas = immeasurably important for lots of people, especially those needing it for pain relief, nausea, anxiety or other mood disorders. That high CBD content is what's known to kill cancer cells and prevent nerve disorders.
> 
> The fact that you are saying mex brick is the only thing that satisfies you is also pretty laughable.


 Something else, if you even look into dispensaries, not the growing aspect. Alot of the best selling, most popular strains are hybrid. Flowering time doesnt play into it at all. They walk in, can pick whichever they want, and generally walk out with an indica or hybrid. The pure sativas arent the top sellers.


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## Bigtacofarmer (Feb 3, 2012)

althor said:


> Same guy that gives the 1000 word smoke reports and grow reports. More he talks the more the truth comes out. Doesnt smoke indica, cant get sativa except for once every few years.. Doesnt grow his own. So basically a guy that smokes a little weed every few years and has no clue what it even is giving 1000 word grow and smoke reports.... remember this.


I thought he was gone, I guess he just didn't pay his internet bill for a month or so. I got some buds worth a months worth of internet or so. Shit I got money for equipment and seeds so I can have more money and equipment and seeds. Either way that guy cracks me up!


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## <Grasshopper> (Feb 3, 2012)

althor said:


> Blueberry...
> 
> Yeah I said it.


Anything mendo purpish/ lavender/ Grape ape/ Blueberry....just has no staying power.


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## Jogro (Feb 3, 2012)

althor said:


> Something else, if you even look into dispensaries, not the growing aspect. Alot of the best selling, most popular strains are hybrid. Flowering time doesnt play into it at all. They walk in, can pick whichever they want, and generally walk out with an indica or hybrid. The pure sativas arent the top sellers.


Flowering time does play a role in what ends up on the market, though it may not be so obvious. 

Most, if not all, of the so-called "sativa" strains you'd find at a dispensary are actually sativa-dominant hybrid strains, rather than true "pure" sativas. Some are popular (eg the "diesel" strains), some are less so. But its probably true that virtually all of the most popular strains have at least SOME sativa in there (eg anything with "Skunk" genes in there, any of the "White" strains, etc, etc). 

The problem is that true sativas take a long time to flower, tend to stretch, are prone to hermaphroditism, and give poor yields indoors. 

These are all the exact opposite of traits desirable for commercial growing. If you're trying to make your living by farming cannabis indoors under lights, you'd have to charge a lot more for your sativa product to make up for the longer grow times and lower yields compared to more commercially viable hybrid strains. Meanwhile, the market demand for pure sativas just isn't there to support these higher prices, meaning that in practice, true (100%) sativa plants probably aren't showing up at the dispensaries very often, if at all. 

I'd add here that while it was true once, most of the Mexican commercial "brickweed" stuff probably isn't pure sativa anymore. The cartels introduced indica genetics a while back to speed up harvests, so the plants are mostly "mongrels" now, just like most of the commercial stuff grown indoors.


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## hazey grapes (Feb 4, 2012)

man do i ever hate trying to get a point across to people with no sense of empathy whatsoever... as long as most people get theres... everyone else can fuck off. your point about "how much faster & productive" indicas grow is MY point exactly... selfish greedy people grow inferior indicas for their own selfish interests and screw anyone that doesn't go along with THEIR program. the first time i smoked a couple grams of 2 different indies for just $8, i was insanely pissed off and wanted my money back because it didn't get me high, just tired which i can do for free. they don't flood the market because of demand, they flood the market because that's what people in it for the money WANT to grow. 

i KNOW some people prefer indicas... about 1/4 of smokers and 1/2 more like them to tolerate them, but there's about a 5% overall leaning to the side of preferring to get high and at the extremes, more people hate indicas than sativas. the thing thatdrives me nuts is how everyone just keeps "going with the program" and anyone like me who militantly opposes it is a "threat to the new world order".

people who prefer or need to get stoned have no business trying to claim the higher ground in this debate because they can go anywhere and get what they want and i've TRIED for 25 goddamn years to find a connection that'll get me high and it's NEVER happened once. can you understand that? can you put yourself in my shoes a second and see what i'm talking about? no, i'm sure you can't... standing up for right and wrong and fairness only pisses sheep off and i'm not a go with the flow kind of person.

me? i HATE having to invest in gear and grow it myself and deal with all that risk. i shouldn't fucking have to! when i DO have bud, i won't sell shit, i'll GIVE IT AWAY! anything i have i can't smoke will be someone else's freebie like the kali mist i begged and pleaded to pay $120 an eighth for in the late 90s.

i've made the same point 1,000 times in 100 ways and those that don't want to hear it will just never get it. people that DEMAND to get high CAN'T in most places outside so-cal or better med use markets. everywhere else, indica is the ONLY option. it isn't fair, it isn't right... it's CORRUPT. 

you know, when i started blazing i was getting REAL california grown & imported to NY columbian gold. i was high as a mofo almost constantly until i'd take a week long vacation every month when tolerance built. i was paying just $40 a quarter too. then, after the corrupt attempt to eradicate weed by the US government illegally poisoning both US & mexican citizens with paraquat, a year later, i was RIPPED OFF with that 1st $8 gram and a half of useless get the fuck out of my face with that stony shit indicrap and could not understand how greedy fucks could then more than double the price from $40 a quarter to $50 an eigth! they were asking more for useless shit and trying to put a positive spin on on what's known today as "bag appeal" traits like stinking like a skunk's ass, buds that are impossible to break apart with your fingers or sticky resin that makes a mess. i never drank thew kool aid. everything that weaker minded people have been BRAINWASHED into thinking are signs of quality are indicators of useless overpriced schwag to me. that's why i've told EVERY dealer i've know to eventually go fuck themselves for pushing that shit and expecting me to act like they're doing me a favor for it. 

i'd rather smoke pissweak mexican brick than ANY shit i've run into on the streets for 2 decades plus. 25 years, as many dealers and probably 10x that in dollars... ALL wasted and never getting high one motherfucking time! status quo apologists in their small minded, stupid, unable to look at the big picture way like to come back with "you just don't know the right dealers" all the while closing their eyes to 25 out of 25 useless fucking ones. it isn't about ME either. it's about the CONSPIRACY. 

it's the same exact thing as the issues brought up by occupy wallstreet... i've been telling people how corrupt lobbyists affect their lives for decades, not because one has ever done anything specific to me, but simply because of how corrupt & wrong they are. in a way, i'm a little annoyed at all the assholes that are FINALLY waking up not because it's the right thing to do, but ONLY because it affects THEM. if you can't understand my war on ALL that is corrupt and unfair, then you're "one of them" and don't come bitching to me because you lost your job, house, pension, health care or fucking freedoms! i was fucking fighting for you when you didn't give a shit because those issues were someone else's problems. when the issues didn't affect you personally, (just like with my contempt for indica corruption) you didn't want to hear it.

ever heard of the really STUPID human tendency to "shoot the messenger"? that's what i've ALWAYS been and always will be and NOT because of injustices against me personally, but ALL injustices. 

i was the ONLY person in a social studies class thought experiment to chose the 80 year old preacher and the mortally injured 25 year old mechanic for expulsion from a bomb shelter that had to get rid of 2 people because they were the LOGICAL choices where EVERYONE else chose one of the two and an otherwise healthy gay lawyer because that's how people ruled by the fidiot lizard part of their brain think, but not ME. i have no problems saying i'm homophobic, don't like to be around queers and expecially hate instigating queens, but would STILL make the same exact choice because it's RIGHT! you can't rebuild civilization with 2 people close to their death bed... an annoying queen that isn't dying would be more productive.

haters like that lying ass piece of shit stalker troll are the perfect example of what's wrong with the human race in general. i stand up for what's right, then everone else gathers around the instigating asshole all the while ignoring FACTS! i'll continue to stand up for what's right with my last breath and don't give a flying fuck that i only piss off go with the flow sheep who only care who their butt buddies are and how much power there is ganging up on people. when i'm ganged up on, i just aim for the instigator and then try and take out whoever else i can until defeated knowing that i'm right. i'll take right over popular every time.


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## Brick Top (Feb 4, 2012)

thedude27 said:


> Bricktop only grows landrace sativas recovered from a commune hippy's bandana circa 1960, not any of your Wal-mart seeds.



No ......... but I don't much care for the strains that all the Beavis and Buttheads who have never been lucky enough to experience a real true pure high quality landrace sativa and who never learned what getting high actually is all about mistakenly think are good strains.


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## skunkd0c (Feb 4, 2012)

a young hipster from LA once told me that OG KUSH is the best weed in the world, everyone else outside LA is jealous of the "real deal" NO other weed is worth consuming 
"just ask snoop and eminem" he said

well you can't argue with that LOL 

peace


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## hazey grapes (Feb 4, 2012)

people DO love the OG kush though. cannabible talks about how people pay literally THOUSANDS of dollars for it and how it ruiins friendships. for some reason i got the impression it was stinky & stony and gave all of my OG kush crossed freebies away only to learn that it's actually not that stony.

there's no such thing as a "best strain in the world" as everyone has different preferences. i can't stand couchlock, but there are a lot of smokers that have no use at all for getting high and that hate sativas.


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## Bigtacofarmer (Feb 4, 2012)

hazey grapes said:


> man do i ever hate trying to get a point across to people with no sense of empathy whatsoever... as long as most people get theres... everyone else can fuck off. your point about "how much faster & productive" indicas grow is MY point exactly... selfish greedy people grow inferior indicas for their own selfish interests and screw anyone that doesn't go along with THEIR program. the first time i smoked a couple grams of 2 different indies for just $8, i was insanely pissed off and wanted my money back because it didn't get me high, just tired which i can do for free. they don't flood the market because of demand, they flood the market because that's what people in it for the money WANT to grow.
> 
> i KNOW some people prefer indicas... about 1/4 of smokers and 1/2 more like them to tolerate them, but there's about a 5% overall leaning to the side of preferring to get high and at the extremes, more people hate indicas than sativas. the thing thatdrives me nuts is how everyone just keeps "going with the program" and anyone like me who militantly opposes it is a "threat to the new world order".
> 
> ...


When I have custumers like you I change my phone number! There is a ton of Sativas out there that don't get you stoned. I'm under the impression you may want to try some other substance, please go to crackitup.org and complain about selection to someone who gives a fuck. Most of the people on here were not impressed by what there dealer had and decided to do some home work and learn to grow themselves. Its to bad you live in such a repressed state as california, my buddys out there are scared also, they'll only run 10-20 lights at a time (they have sativas too). By the way what strains have you grown from seed to maturity and cured yourself, this thread is about the most overrated strains not the strains you might have seen some where, and want to talk about! No offence dude but its pretty old!


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## trichome fiend (Feb 4, 2012)

hazey grapes said:


> man do i ever hate trying to get a point across to people with no sense of empathy whatsoever... as long as most people get theres... everyone else can fuck off. your point about "how much faster & productive" indicas grow is MY point exactly... selfish greedy people grow inferior indicas for their own selfish interests and screw anyone that doesn't go along with THEIR program. the first time i smoked a couple grams of 2 different indies for just $8, i was insanely pissed off and wanted my money back because it didn't get me high, just tired which i can do for free. they don't flood the market because of demand, they flood the market because that's what people in it for the money WANT to grow.
> 
> i KNOW some people prefer indicas... about 1/4 of smokers and 1/2 more like them to tolerate them, but there's about a 5% overall leaning to the side of preferring to get high and at the extremes, more people hate indicas than sativas. the thing thatdrives me nuts is how everyone just keeps "going with the program" and anyone like me who militantly opposes it is a "threat to the new world order".
> 
> ...


......................


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## skunkd0c (Feb 4, 2012)

hazey grapes said:


> people DO love the OG kush though. cannabible talks about how people pay literally THOUSANDS of dollars for it and how it ruiins friendships. for some reason i got the impression it was stinky & stony and gave all of my OG kush crossed freebies away only to learn that it's actually not that stony.
> 
> there's no such thing as a "best strain in the world" as everyone has different preferences. i can't stand couchlock, but there are a lot of smokers that have no use at all for getting high and that hate sativas.


You go tell the hipsters there is no best strain in the world 
they will spit gum in your face, and possibly hit you round the head with skateboards 

BRAH your OG kush freebies were fakes dude, phonies NOT the "real deal"

only those cuts blessed by snoop are real in LA brah 

thousands of $ .. you say that's chump change BRO a real OG is worth millions and ruins marriages, let alone friendships 
my wife ran away with another woman, because i had problems pleasing her sexually 
but its all good, she never found my OG 

peace


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## althor (Feb 4, 2012)

If that idiot would just grow his own he could stop all this bitching. Of course he has made it quite clear he doesnt even like MJ. He is looking for a meth buzz or crack buzz and doesnt realize it yet.


I have lived in a non-medicinal state all of my life and never had problems finding buds, even sativas. Just shows how full of shit he is. Doesnt buy, doesnt smoke, doesnt grow, 1000 word smoke and grow reports....


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## RedWhiteBlueGreen (Feb 4, 2012)

shrigpiece said:


> Skunk 1 is underated and about as cheap to by in seeds and easy to grow with fantastic yields.



This is so true dude - i've always wondered why so many Seedhouses & banks seem to sell their Skunk No.1's at such cheap prices - tho is good its kept cheap as for the reasons u stated its a very good beginners choice to learn with & still likely get a good return.


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## I85BLAX (Feb 4, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> Are you serious?
> Jack the ripper is one of subs heavy yielders and sour diesel buzz last longer than that.. I'm growing it and I live in the city of it!


you live in the city of the Original N.Y.C Deisel (official), that sour was a damn knock off attempt that just doesn't have quite the kick of the original!


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## I85BLAX (Feb 4, 2012)

jman0998 said:


> what do you all think is the most overrated marijuana strain there is. id have to say white widow, ik back in its hayday it was great but no one seems to grow good white widow anymore


thats because everybody is growing the knock offs and trying to pass them off! Shantibaba is the black widow Don!!


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## WillieMazeHaze (Feb 4, 2012)

fishwhistle said:


> anything purple


They just don't seem to be as strong


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## WillieMazeHaze (Feb 4, 2012)

jman0998 said:


> i would also have to say that beasters are pretty overrated, atleast around here


Beasters are a typology of poorly grown, premature, chemy, unflushed canadian pot that is really dense and has no taste, that they sell to people that don't know any better. On the east coast we used to get beasters all the time but since laws are changing everywhere it seems they have almost disappeared. Been a few years since I have seen them. Everyone seems to be more in the know about strains now, which in my opinion rocks.


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## kermit2692 (Feb 4, 2012)

should have specified whether you meant overrated to smoke or grow...i agree with page one blueberry sucks!! but then those were the people talking about growing it and it is horrible to grow..hermies..deformations..however if you meant smoke a good blueberry nug is def my favorite!!


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## Jogro (Feb 5, 2012)

hazey grapes said:


> i've made the same point 1,000 times in 100 ways and those that don't want to hear it will just never get it. people that DEMAND to get high CAN'T in most places outside so-cal or better med use markets. everywhere else, indica is the ONLY option. it isn't fair, it isn't right... it's CORRUPT.


Waaaaaaah!!!

Yeah, too bad the illegal drug market doesn't respond to your niche demand. 

Or, to put it more concisely, if everyone wanted Sativa plants, then that's what you'd find for sale on the street. 

I "hear" it. . .I "get" it. . .I'm also a bit older than most of the posters here, and I even know what you're talking about wrt older strains. . .despite that, you're still screaming alone in the wilderness. 

Here's some "thought food" for you. If your local grocery store won't stock your favorite type of beer, what do you do?
Scream about a conspiracy, or do "something else"?

If the sativa strains you rant about are so much better than everything else available where you live, why don't you get together with a few like-minded friends, and corner the market? You don't even have to grow it yourself (though that is one option); all you have to do is find a connection and import it. 




> i'd rather smoke pissweak mexican brick than ANY shit i've run into on the streets for 2 decades plus. 25 years, as many dealers and probably 10x that in dollars... ALL wasted and never getting high one motherfucking time! status quo apologists in their small minded, stupid, unable to look at the big picture way like to come back with "you just don't know the right dealers" all the while closing their eyes to 25 out of 25 useless fucking ones. it isn't about ME either. it's about the CONSPIRACY.


"Conspiracy"? 
Yeah, all the growers, and all the dealers got together to hatch a plan just to make sure that YOU can't buy the weed you like!

I'd add something important here as well. One probable reason why none of the strains you find nowadays get you as "high" as they did when you were 18 years old isn't just because the strains are different. . .its because your BRAIN is different. I honestly believe that as you get older, and particularly as your brain becomes accustomed to it, pot partly loses the "giggle" effect it had when you were younger. 



> it's the same exact thing as the issues brought up by occupy wallstreet...


Unemployed hippies can't find a good sativa to stuff their bongs with either?


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## dumdedum (Feb 5, 2012)

I agree purple strains tend to be abit weaker but they do normaly taste better.


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## Jogro (Feb 5, 2012)

RedWhiteBlueGreen said:


> This is so true dude - i've always wondered why so many Seedhouses & banks seem to sell their Skunk No.1's at such cheap prices - tho is good its kept cheap as for the reasons u stated its a very good beginners choice to learn with & still likely get a good return.


Now THIS is a great point. 

The answer is that the seeds aren't "kept" cheap. . .(ie by conspiracy); like everything else, market forces determine the prices. Its supply and demand. 

Because Skunk #1 is one of the oldest commercially available strains, and one of the most popular, many breeders have versions available to capture that market niche. Consequently, supply is high, and the prices for the seeds are more competitive than more recent strains. At the same time, because its not "flavor of the month", and the supplies are not exclusive to any one breeder anymore, people simply aren't willing to pay $10(+) a seed for Skunk the way they might be with other strains. 

Lets face it, any mature female cannabis plant can put out THOUSANDS of seeds (probably tens of thousands for one of those giant sativa trees). 
Under "ordinary" circumstances, cannabis seeds should RETAIL for about $10 per POUND. . .and this isn't some made up number. Processed legal hemp seeds *DO* cost about that much at any healthfood store right now! Individual cannabis seeds probably shouldn't cost more than $0.10 each, even in relatively small quantity.

Instead, they cost $10 per SEED. That means commercial cannabis seeds can be literally worth MORE than their weight in gold. In fact, seed value means seeded plants can be worth more than unseeded ones full of buds. Why is that?

Part of it has to do with the illegal nature of the market, driving up prices, and part of it has to do with the small economy of scale in buying a few seeds. 

But no small part of it has to do with good old-fashioned hype. 

If you talk up the seeds with ridiculous ad copy, put glossy ads in magazines, hold overhyped "competitions" in exotic places naming some strains "the best", well, these things go a long way towards inflating demand, and hence prices.


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## RawBudzski (Feb 5, 2012)

Jogro said:


> Now THIS is a great point.
> 
> The answer is that the seeds aren't "kept" cheap. . .(ie by conspiracy); like everything else, market forces determine the prices. Its supply and demand.
> 
> ...


Learn how to clone and a pick & mix of 10 seeds +freebies for 100bucks. = Never having to buy a seed or plant again. = Priceless.


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## I85BLAX (Feb 5, 2012)

RawBudzski said:


> Learn how to clone and a pick & mix of 10 seeds +freebies for 100bucks. = Never having to buy a seed or plant again. = Priceless.


That is the answer to the problem!


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## hazey grapes (Feb 5, 2012)

you wouldn't have to change your number, the SECOND you copped an attitude, i'd tell you to fuck off and die.

so many schwag growers... so little pride in QUALITY and nothing but love for money. my shit's better than yours... and it's 100% FREE!

anyone want some
*jack's cleaner 2
thai skunk
el dorado
sour cream
C99
haze skunk x C99
LSD x C99
super cali haze x C99
super lemon haze*
*jack
auto jack *(cinnamon girl)
or 
*amnesia haze*?

[video=youtube;Mr_uHJPUlO8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr_uHJPUlO8&amp;ob=av2e[/video]
that's the kind of shit that makes ME wanna dance till i get dehydrated. no couchlock and PURE pride

i;m not holding my breath that i'll create a backlash against greed and inspire OTHERS to tell the greedy to go fuck themselves, but i know somewhere buddy232 is feelin' me


> Me personally, I'm not a (heavy) indica person - but I have my reasons. Mainly because I have clinically diagnosed neurological problems... I'm sure you know enough at med's as to why sativa's help me better. I had the same issues with my "old" dealer before I became legal.* A few times I would get a good sativa and request that he ask for it again. He would yell at me giving me all kinds of shit about how it wasn't that good, and sativas take too long to grow, are stringy with no bag appeal, etc.*


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## The Chemist Brothers (Feb 5, 2012)

hazey grapes said:


> you wouldn't have to change your number, the SECOND you copped an attitude, i'd tell you to fuck off and die.
> 
> so many schwag growers... so little pride in QUALITY and nothing but love for money. my shit's better than yours... and it's 100% FREE!
> 
> ...


pics or it didn't happen


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## hazey grapes (Feb 5, 2012)

it hasn't happened YET... it's in the process, but i'll get some pics when it happens and maybe even get some in the works pics too though my camera is acting up always saying my batteries are dead. i might have to buy another camera.

even when you DO post pics though... haters will try and say your pics are stolen even if they can't find the originals. i'm going to make sure to find some sort of way to "tag" my photos like holding up a sign that says "hazey grapes" or something to shut those calling me a liar up. no kidding, i'd rather be called an asshole and have my mother called a whore than a liar.

if you knew me at all, you'd know i DESPISE indicas and ONLY grow because i have to as that's the only way to get high. in the meantime, i'm going to go upload the pic of the last beans i bought so i can at least show i have this gear... oh yeah... i have some 50% columbian gold i want to test too as well as some masterkush i'll be growing for fun because it's fast & short.

i'll BRB with a pic of my latest score. i wanted to share it on the seed collectors thread anyways.


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## STILL PUFFIN (Feb 5, 2012)

blue cheese BARNEYS= BLUEBERRY X cheese


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## RawBudzski (Feb 5, 2012)

have not poped my blue cheese from big buddha


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## hazey grapes (Feb 5, 2012)

oh yeah... i'm trying malawi gold too. i REALLY hope that shit turns out as nice as it's rep. both of the mulanji's didn't make it, but i think both of the mozambiques are in the mix right now too without doing a headcount. i'm going to SCROG it all and if i manage to get at least 350 or so grams, then i'll have some smoke to try and tackle REAL sativas like highland thai or maybe some of the "rare" gear i've seen on some auction site here.

trust me, if i fuck shit up, i'm HONEST about that too. getting high is such a rare treat for me that i fuck up almost every grow i start because i can't resist the lure of leaflet trim like a junkie. if i were a liar, i wouldn't go around admitting TRUTHS that make me look like a fuckup now would i? i've got nothing to hide from anyone but officer *fiendly*. (sic)

here's my latest score... not a lot of indica in there is there? any stoner bud other than the masterkush was a freebie.


oh shit! now you can upload pics DIRECT from your PC here! about freakin' time!

i'll also admit that i fucked up EVERTHING in my first attempt at growing this year and lost a lot of beans to both mold and drying out my second attempt ESPECIALLY all of my 8 miles highs, haze skunks & "extinct" joey weed C99 x A11s. 

it really sucks that i'm without a connection as i told BOTH of my last 2 connections to go fuck themselves for acting flaky on me. i need a headstash to be able to grow. i HOPE i can restrain myself this time as it's my last chance until next fall. if i knew someone that had some bud, i'd buy an ounce right now. i've never bought more than 1/2.

i think i have one surviving C99 x A11 i want to use as my male. if it survives (the root is bent and i buried it deeper so hopefully it recovers) it will be my breeder. otherwise, i'm hoping that my joey weed grape pheno C99BXes pop as those will be my breeders and if that falls through, then i'll spray everything with jack's cleaner 2 as that's the strain i expect to be my favorite for buzz & fast flowering time.


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## KiwiSteve (Feb 5, 2012)

sshz said:


> remember, the cup is run by high times and they routinely favor seed banks and breeders that advertise in their magazine.


lol lol lol


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## hazey grapes (Feb 5, 2012)

OK... i had to go to the corner store and buy alkaline batteries to get my camera working as it no longer likes rechargeables, but i had to do it to prove i'm not lying.



starting with the back row left to right...

*jack's cleaner 2* (3x), *C99 x A11, sativa trans love*

3-4 *masterkush* with 1 possibly being something else as the peat pellet i started one of them in had something that didn't pop the 1st time start with the MK & 1x *thai fantasy*

*malawi gold *(4x) & *sour cream*

*haze skunk, thai skunk* (3x), *C99 x A11*

*auto jack, amnesia haze, sweet haze, mozambique poison
*
PLUS i have C99 crosses i made popping in my humidity dome and more beans soaking waiting to join them. the last 50% columbian gold might be a gonner as the center of it's stem looks dried out with some root fuzz higher up. i'm NOT liking what i'm guessing are cocoa coir pellets as nothing likes to root properly in them. i'm REALLY psyched though that at least 1x *super cali haze x C99* popped and looks healthy. i'll be transplanting those and the jack i'm worried about that sprouted upside down and might be dried out too.

if you like getting high... ADMIT IT... you'd really like to taste that malawi gold and see if it's for real or not. i decided to roll the dice on holy smoke seeds there AND got 2x each malawi, mozambique & mulawi freebies for it.

as the last of the haze skunk didn't fare well and the one that is still growing looks a little mutated, i dropped the last of the thai skunks as a replacement so there should be 4-5 of those soaking for transplanting tomorrow along with the el dorados i lost some interest in because they stretch like mofos. 

go ahead and hate on me all you want, but if you hate on my gear... then you just don't like getting high.

plan 1: breed everything with a C99 x A11 male
plan 2: jack's cleaner 2
plan 3: super cali haze x C99

i think i'll save the rest of the SCH x C99s for next falls grapes & fruits breeding session. THAT is the cross i'm most excited about though as joey weed's C99s are grape pheno and @ 45 days flowering, could only speed up the grapey haze lowryder. i'm not keen on using it to create the home seedbank i'm going for here as pure SCH is a slow 120 day strain, but really nice.

everything will be growing on 2 3x3 SCROG screens hanging from 2x4 light rails i made & under a 400w halide and another 400w sodium. i'm still learning as a grower and hope i don't fuck this shit up, but i have total faith that most of these strains will make me smile from ear to ear as C99, 8 miles high & haze skunk already have. my 2nd lemon skunk freebie dried out sadly, but the 1st one was a lot better than i expected. just keeping it 100% real AS ALWAYS.


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## trichome fiend (Feb 5, 2012)

STILL PUFFIN said:


> blue cheese BARNEYS= BLUEBERRY X cheese



...is fuckin' DANK!


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## pharmacoping (Feb 5, 2012)

super lemon haze sucked 6 times for me. fired from the garden!
purples dont get me hard either.
tga subcool has never failed at perfection, imo

some real fire genetics are here:


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## althor (Feb 5, 2012)

hazey grapes said:


> OK... i had to go to the corner store and buy alkaline batteries to get my camera working as it no longer likes rechargeables, but i had to do it to prove i'm not lying.
> 
> View attachment 2039972
> 
> ...



What happened to the sign saying Hazey Grapes? Or even a newspaper with a date would work. I have seen your "fake" pictures in the past.

Your POST AT 4 AM says you havent STARTED YET. AT 5 AM YOU TAKE A PIC of a week old plants....
How did you get a weeks worth of growing in an hour?


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## Bigtacofarmer (Feb 5, 2012)

althor said:


> What happened to the sign saying Hazey Grapes? Or even a newspaper with a date would work. I have seen your "fake" pictures in the past.
> 
> Your POST AT 4 AM says you havent STARTED YET. AT 5 AM YOU TAKE A PIC of a week old plants....
> How did you get a weeks worth of growing in an hour?


Love this thread, should continue to be interesting for a while!


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## althor (Feb 5, 2012)

Bigtacofarmer said:


> Love this thread, should continue to be interesting for a while!



Laugh, its alot easier to believe instead of germing seeds, planting, and them popping surface in 1.5 hrs, that he actually took 1.5 hrs to photoshop a picture for us.


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## althor (Feb 5, 2012)




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## pharmacoping (Feb 5, 2012)

love tennessee !


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## whatsaroach?lol??? (Feb 5, 2012)

Soooo going back to the original point of this thread lol. Bleu cheese is definitly the worst weed I've ever had. I've had reg that's destroyed it. O off topic again has neone grew berry bomb or thc bomb. If so ur opinion on it?


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## pharmacoping (Feb 5, 2012)

I agree, blue cheese, blueberry, blue widow, come to think of it, I dont like blue anymore.


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## whatsaroach?lol??? (Feb 5, 2012)

Lol I'm not mad at blueberry haha but the other two id agree as well. I'm really curious on the seeds I jus ordered a week ago I ordered berry bomb and thc bomb I got three freebies as well la diva. shark attack. And somethen else I forgot lol go figure however the la diva looked pretty promisin


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## althor (Feb 5, 2012)

pharmacoping said:


> I agree, blue cheese, blueberry, blue widow, come to think of it, I dont like blue anymore.


 I had some bluehash (dinafem) that after 45 days in the jar turned out to be some pretty decent buds. But one day before 45 days and all it did was put people straight to sleep.


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## Jogro (Feb 5, 2012)

RawBudzski said:


> Learn how to clone and a pick & mix of 10 seeds +freebies for 100bucks. = Never having to buy a seed or plant again. = Priceless.


Of course you can grow without spending money on seeds every single time. I was just trying to explain why cannabis seeds that ought to cost pennies each cost $10 each (or in some cases more), and why some strains cost less than others, even if the cheaper ones aren't any lower quality. 

As an alternative to cloning, you can just buy a pack of (non-feminized) Skunk #1 or Northern lights (or any other line of your choice), keep one male, and allow it to fertilize one female. Since these are true inbreeding lines you don't even have to do any selection, and the offspring should be genetically identical to the parents. 

Now you have hundreds of seeds, probably enough to last you for years.


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## whatsaroach?lol??? (Feb 5, 2012)

I hate when ur side effect is straight sleep effect its a wase to me unless I juss really need to sleep


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## althor (Feb 5, 2012)

whatsaroach?lol??? said:


> I hate when ur side effect is straight sleep effect its a wase to me unless I juss really need to sleep


 Yep, I didnt like it AT ALL. Only time I smoked it was to go to sleep. After that 45 day mark though, the buzz matured into a nice, mello, relaxing stone far from being sleepy.


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## I85BLAX (Feb 5, 2012)

RawBudzski said:


> have not poped my blue cheese from big buddha


thats actually a good bean! to me anyhow!


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## alphawolf.hack (Feb 5, 2012)

i keep hearing good thing about bluecheese everywhere else i kinda got it for the genetics tho. i got it from barneys farm. but if its not a blueberry much type i wont be surprised all of mine have leaned towards the cheese/skunk side of things with very serrated leaves


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## I85BLAX (Feb 5, 2012)

trichome fiend said:


> ...is fuckin' DANK!
> 
> View attachment 2040017View attachment 2040018View attachment 2040020View attachment 2040022View attachment 2040025


Nice stocky beautiful ladies! Did you 12/12 from seed or short veg clones!!!


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## whatsaroach?lol??? (Feb 5, 2012)

The bleu cheese I had was a nice tennis ball green. And I'm not I didn't get high but as much as it was hyped to me I juss didn't get the same effect but evryone has a different effect from smoking. Lol I got a friend who can't smoke point blank simply he juss freaks out off reg ol stuff. Lmao luck bastard


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## Goldowitz (Feb 5, 2012)

hazey grapes said:


> man do i ever hate trying to get a point across to people with no sense of empathy whatsoever... as long as most people get theres... everyone else can fuck off. your point about "how much faster & productive" indicas grow is MY point exactly... selfish greedy people grow inferior indicas for their own selfish interests and screw anyone that doesn't go along with THEIR program. the first time i smoked a couple grams of 2 different indies for just $8, i was insanely pissed off and wanted my money back because it didn't get me high, just tired which i can do for free. they don't flood the market because of demand, they flood the market because that's what people in it for the money WANT to grow.
> 
> i KNOW some people prefer indicas... about 1/4 of smokers and 1/2 more like them to tolerate them, but there's about a 5% overall leaning to the side of preferring to get high and at the extremes, more people hate indicas than sativas. the thing thatdrives me nuts is how everyone just keeps "going with the program" and anyone like me who militantly opposes it is a "threat to the new world order".
> 
> ...


My comments in blue.


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## trichome fiend (Feb 5, 2012)

I85BLAX said:


> Nice stocky beautiful ladies! Did you 12/12 from seed or short veg clones!!!


...thankx! ...short veg clones.


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## smellzlikeskunkyum (Feb 5, 2012)

OMG if i had a microphone and you all could hear... but i dont. and u cant! lol. 

im so tired of people complaining to the core about the genetics now-a-days. I agree 100% that purple stuff, Kush anything, Diesel anything, Berry anything... those are all typically over-rated stuff. its only because people use those terms to get people to buy it and get hyped up about it. which is a damn shame because some of the greatest stuff ive ever had the pleasure of smoking WAS an OG kush, or Sour D. Shit, one of the strongest buds i ever smoked was an insane batch of Purple Haze, it even had that electrifying sativa buzz too... But, it was like 30 a gram... c'mon now. if it wouldnt have been purple i dont believe it would have costed that much.

And on the other end of things... take my fav strain for instance: Nirvana - Chrystal. Its not very well heard of... most only know from hearing about it from others that did grow it, if they didnt themselves. Its not fair to the strain because i gaurantee it will go up against just about any other strain and hold up to it or beat it. I mean the plant i had was almost leaf-free entirely, and the ones that were there were absolutely covered in resin. It had a beautiful berry-ish-fruity, sweet scent and taste. The high was out of this world and a good mix of indica and sativa qualities. Its even easy to grow, yields great, and finishes in 7-8 weeks flowering in my experience. Can you really beat that? i havent found a strain that does yet... and i have a LOT of strains.

BUT!!!!! this all doesnt mean that todays genetics are bad. IN fact its quite the opposite. We have achieved much better yields, flavors and even thc levels with newer genetics. Even old companies like dutch passion are trying their best to keep up and update their seed cataloge to be able to match the demand for better and better strains. i mean the new freddie's best even has some Chocolope in it! i was really taken back by that, but glad to see that we are finally seeing all the top strains starting to get made into even better new-age strains. i mean look at the number of new OG hybrids coming out... in about a decade the old OG may not even be considered a top shelf strain anymore! the newer ones will be just too much better. or maybe even another strain will come along and take its place in popularity!? lol its funny to think about really...

Ive been thinking about breaking down and getting one of the OG's myself. I just got my 600w going so now i can start a new batch, and even tho i have a ton of seeds(papaya, bubba76, blue widow, vanilla kush, red cherry berry, freeze cheese89, aroma, white castle, NYPD, Grape ape... and many more!) i still want to purchase a top notch OG strain since everyone begs for it.

ive been leaning towards the Big Buddah Tahoe OG cuz its more reasonable. but ive been considering the DNA Holy Grail Kush, and the Cali Conn. Buddah Tahoe OG.

What would you guys get? everyone around my hood likes the LARRY OG. i mean larry goes for no less than $25 a gram. and about $500 an ounce if your lucky. but... im convinced i can convert them once they see the TAHOE OG. it convinced me! i just cant really decide which of the three to get... OR EVEN THE DINAFEM so i can get the CRITICAL + freebies... what would you guys do!?


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## wyteberrywidow (Feb 5, 2012)

Buddha Tahoe og from big Buddha is not the real deal. In fact anything Tahoe,Larry, sfv, bubba I would get from Cali connect. Why because I grew them and love it and to my knowledge and from everyone in Cali who had the lone and grew Cali conn stuff says its the closest representation to the clone.

Bug Buddha all of a sudden has a tahoe clone and reversed it after the cup which is bs and raise red flags!!!! He bought some packs from Cali connection and found what he thought was a good pheno and femmed it.. Just trying to ride the og wave that's all.


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## Airwave (Feb 5, 2012)

hazey grapes said:


> man do i ever hate trying to get a point across to people with no sense of empathy whatsoever... as long as most people get theres... everyone else can fuck off. your point about "how much faster & productive" indicas grow is MY point exactly... selfish greedy people grow inferior indicas for their own selfish interests and screw anyone that doesn't go along with THEIR program. the first time i smoked a couple grams of 2 different indies for just $8, i was insanely pissed off and wanted my money back because it didn't get me high, just tired which i can do for free. they don't flood the market because of demand, they flood the market because that's what people in it for the money WANT to grow.
> 
> i KNOW some people prefer indicas... about 1/4 of smokers and 1/2 more like them to tolerate them, but there's about a 5% overall leaning to the side of preferring to get high and at the extremes, more people hate indicas than sativas. the thing thatdrives me nuts is how everyone just keeps "going with the program" and anyone like me who militantly opposes it is a "threat to the new world order".
> 
> ...


The last thing your head needs is a mind racing sativa.


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## whatsaroach?lol??? (Feb 5, 2012)

smellzlikeskunkyum said:


> OMG if i had a microphone and you all could hear... but i dont. and u cant! lol.
> 
> im so tired of people complaining to the core about the genetics now-a-days. I agree 100% that purple stuff, Kush anything, Diesel anything, Berry anything... those are all typically over-rated stuff. its only because people use those terms to get people to buy it and get hyped up about it. which is a damn shame because some of the greatest stuff ive ever had the pleasure of smoking WAS an OG kush, or Sour D. Shit, one of the strongest buds i ever smoked was an insane batch of Purple Haze, it even had that electrifying sativa buzz too... But, it was like 30 a gram... c'mon now. if it wouldnt have been purple i dont believe it would have costed that much.
> 
> ...



Man if u can convert ppl u should do it I mean everyone needs a change of pace. Jus like blueberry. Purple. Og kush they all get wore out bc ppl wnt put it down ad try sumn new. Ppl smoke the same shit for months and months and wonder y they don't get as high nemore. It notthat it lost it potency prolly ujuss built up a resistance against the strain juss my opinion neways


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## I85BLAX (Feb 5, 2012)

smellzlikeskunkyum said:


> OMG if i had a microphone and you all could hear... but i dont. and u cant! lol.
> 
> im so tired of people complaining to the core about the genetics now-a-days. I agree 100% that purple stuff, Kush anything, Diesel anything, Berry anything... those are all typically over-rated stuff. its only because people use those terms to get people to buy it and get hyped up about it. which is a damn shame because some of the greatest stuff ive ever had the pleasure of smoking WAS an OG kush, or Sour D. Shit, one of the strongest buds i ever smoked was an insane batch of Purple Haze, it even had that electrifying sativa buzz too... But, it was like 30 a gram... c'mon now. if it wouldnt have been purple i dont believe it would have costed that much.
> 
> ...


I grabbed a 10 pack of sweet deep grapefruit so I could get 10 free Critical+ beans + 3 promo + 2 U.F.O all for 78 bucks with the shipping. Dinafem has never let me down thus far! I have one of their O.G. in a solo cup along with threir cheese. So I would go with Dinafem!


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## I85BLAX (Feb 5, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> Buddha Tahoe og from big Buddha is not the real deal. In fact anything Tahoe,Larry, sfv, bubba I would get from Cali connect. Why because I grew them and love it and to my knowledge and from everyone in Cali who had the lone and grew Cali conn stuff says its the closest representation to the clone.
> 
> sBug Buddha all of a sudden has a tahoe clone and reversed it after the cup which is bs and raise red flags!!!! He bought some packs from Cali connection and found what he thought was a good pheno and femmed it.. Just trying to ride the og wave that's all.


I would give big buddah a shot Swerve where Milo got that cut from he needs to stop frontin! He isnt the only one in the world with that cut! He knows that!


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## wyteberrywidow (Feb 5, 2012)

I85BLAX said:


> I would give big buddah a shot Swerve where Milo got that cut from he needs to stop frontin! He isnt the only one in the world with that cut! He knows that!


Well it's your money do what you want with it but to me an everyone I know that will alway be a fake.. I guess well see what's what when people actually grow it.


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## I85BLAX (Feb 5, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> Well it's your money do what you want with it but to me an everyone I know that will alway be a fake.. I guess well see what's what when people actually grow it.


I understand you completely! But, Wyte he went on the stage with the man at the cup! Thats like having a baby with someone and saying they didnt have access to their D.N.A.! You wouldn't give your boy a sack of stash?


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## RawBudzski (Feb 5, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> Well it's your money do what you want with it but to me an everyone I know that will alway be a fake.. I guess well see what's what when people actually grow it.



oh no.. have a big buddha blue cheese seed :[


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## I85BLAX (Feb 5, 2012)

RawBudzski said:


> oh no.. have a big buddha blue cheese seed :[


oh big buddah cheese is one of if not the best cheese from seed that I've smoked!


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## RawBudzski (Feb 5, 2012)

I85BLAX said:


> oh big buddah cheese is one of if not the best cheese from cheese that I've smoked!


 wait.. nvm. i am high . that is good right..


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## I85BLAX (Feb 5, 2012)

RawBudzski said:


> wait.. nvm. i am high . that is good right..


I think that I may be the high one here! Lol!


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## wyteberrywidow (Feb 5, 2012)

I85BLAX said:


> I understand you completely! But, Wyte he went on the stage with the man at the cup! Thats like having a baby with someone and saying they didnt have access to their D.N.A.! You wouldn't give your boy a sack of stash?


I guess we need to call Maury up lol.. Well I guess it is what it is.. Big Buddha Tahoe I won't buy plus I hav original Tahoe beans as well as the real Buddha og (Louie xiii og x Tahoe og).. But I know what I'm getting with Cali conn Tahoe I don't know about big Buddha.


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## I85BLAX (Feb 5, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> I guess we need to call Maury up lol.. Well I guess it is what it is.. Big Buddha Tahoe I won't buy plus I hav original Tahoe beans as well as the real Buddha og (Louie xiii og x Tahoe og).. But I know what I'm getting with Cali conn Tahoe I don't know about big Buddha.


I can respect it I'm from the east coast too! So I know how it is you want what you want and everything you pay for!


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## wyteberrywidow (Feb 5, 2012)

Where at on the east? By your name I would have thought la.. Lax


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## I85BLAX (Feb 5, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> Where at on the east? By your name I would have thought la.. Lax


 I'm from V.A. I've been in texas for almost six months


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## smellzlikeskunkyum (Feb 5, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> Buddha Tahoe og from big Buddha is not the real deal. In fact anything Tahoe,Larry, sfv, bubba I would get from Cali connect. Why because I grew them and love it and to my knowledge and from everyone in Cali who had the lone and grew Cali conn stuff says its the closest representation to the clone.
> 
> Bug Buddha all of a sudden has a tahoe clone and reversed it after the cup which is bs and raise red flags!!!! He bought some packs from Cali connection and found what he thought was a good pheno and femmed it.. Just trying to ride the og wave that's all.


UMM where do u think cali conn got their genes.... u have to try to find stuff like that. i dont think big buddah is all that wrong for trying to sell TAHOE OG. I mean Sensi is the original breeder for a lot of strains that sell fantastically under other breeders. OR LOOK at DJ shorts blueberry.... its sold under Sagarmatha and Dutch Passion as well... the same genes just those breeders' selections. Big buddah is getting all this flack just because its an OG strain thats rediculous.

the cup is dumb anyways IMO but with that said im not entirely sure what happened... but i geuss Big Buddah is the one who won the award not Cali Conn.

Unless Big Buddah's Tahoe spits out hermies left and right, what would be WRONG with it even if its not the original stock? worst possible situation besides the hermies is that they are F2's and will spit out random phenotypes, some being possibly way different than the original strain. am i right? im pretty sure i am...


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## wyteberrywidow (Feb 5, 2012)

smellzlikeskunkyum said:


> UMM where do u think cali conn got their genes.... u have to try to find stuff like that. i dont think big buddah is all that wrong for trying to sell TAHOE OG. I mean Sensi is the original breeder for a lot of strains that sell fantastically under other breeders. OR LOOK at DJ shorts blueberry.... its sold under Sagarmatha and Dutch Passion as well... the same genes just those breeders' selections. Big buddah is getting all this flack just because its an OG strain thats rediculous.
> 
> the cup is dumb anyways IMO but with that said im not entirely sure what happened... but i geuss Big Buddah is the one who won the award not Cali Conn.
> 
> Unless Big Buddah's Tahoe spits out hermies left and right, what would be WRONG with it even if its not the original stock? worst possible situation besides the hermies is that they are F2's and will spit out random phenotypes, some being possibly way different than the original strain. am i right? im pretty sure i am...


Actually I think you need to do the research because the coffee shop won.. According to swerve Buddha entered left over bid from serve because what he entered was garbage so Buddha didn't win shit.
So big Buddha or Cali conn didn't win the cup the coffee shop won.

Tahoe og is a west coast clone not in Europe so if you from the west coast it prob would be easy to get but big Buddha getting hmmmm how did he get it again?


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## wyteberrywidow (Feb 5, 2012)

[h=3]Re: Original Buddha Tahoe Og Seeds[/h]by Swerve » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:25 am
no what happened was buddhas weeed was pure shit so the owner bought my gear to enter then realized buddha did all this craziness with gift bags and yada yada.. so the owner felt compelled to work with us both.. then buddhe just straight out rode it as far as he could as he will ahve seeds of it in january . not sure how..lol so ours come out next week hahahaha. as you all know we are the originators of the Buddha tahoe og kush....


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## wyteberrywidow (Feb 5, 2012)

Proof is in the pudding so go and spend what you want where you want.. B


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## althor (Feb 5, 2012)

"its a seedy business"


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## I85BLAX (Feb 5, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> *Re: Original Buddha Tahoe Og Seeds*
> 
> by Swerve » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:25 am
> no what happened was buddhas weeed was pure shit so the owner bought my gear to enter then realized buddha did all this craziness with gift bags and yada yada.. so the owner felt compelled to work with us both.. then buddhe just straight out rode it as far as he could as he will ahve seeds of it in january . not sure how..lol so ours come out next week hahahaha. as you all know we are the originators of the Buddha tahoe og kush....


buddha grows his shit ouside!


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## I85BLAX (Feb 5, 2012)

althor said:


> "its a seedy business"


aswell as a shady business!


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## I85BLAX (Feb 5, 2012)

but on the east it all goes as long as you dont call it dro!


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## STACKB (Feb 5, 2012)

Eastcoast we get money $


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Feb 6, 2012)

dro is such a retarded nickname being hydro, like its a strain when most hydro is actually caked in resin and huge dense nugs...


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## tree king (Feb 6, 2012)

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> dro is such a retarded nickname being hydro, like its a strain when most hydro is actually caked in resin and huge dense nugs...


exactly, i always laugh at people when they say that. i call it bc bud or beasters. that shit has gone so down hill over the years you mine as well call it the new commercial


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## hazey grapes (Feb 6, 2012)

> *The last thing your head needs is a mind racing sativa. *


much of my attitude comes from a LACK of getting high. if i were high right now, i'd find something funner to do than hang out here WISHING i had some up bud. 

when i had some haze skunk last year, i quit drinking & started losing weight and then once i noticed losing weight, i started doing crunches to tighten my abs even more. now, i'm without smoke, back to drinking again and maybe even fatter than i was last year. 

i need to get back off the freakin' hooch you mean

ANYWHERE people are getting high, the world is a better place. i WISH i saw the summer of love sooooo much! i wish hip-hop didn't turn to gangsta crap right the eff after sativas disappeared too.

this about sums it up *NICE*ly
[video=youtube;8Gmc6S8Ffws]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gmc6S8Ffws[/video]

the greedy fuck powers that be keep getting high a non-option though. i'm part of the SOLUTION... anyone FIGHTING AGAINST getting high, even through apathy and not wanting to hear people making waves against the forces of evil are just part of the problem and anywhere there's a problem... there's people more concerned with social stratification than right or wrong. the more enemies of right i encounter, the firmer i dig my heels because i just don't budge.


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## hazey grapes (Feb 6, 2012)

> *Bingo, this is the heart of your problem. You have an entitlement mentality. You think that other prople should be forced to cater to your needs so you don't have to. Why don't you grow the fuck up and take care of your own needs for a change? *


entitlement my motherfucking ass! it's the greedy piece of shit fucks who steal money selling indicrap that think they're ucking entitled. holy fuck are you twisting that shit to the opposite! scumbags take money, but don't deliver the fucking goods. entitlement? i fight against theft and fraud and that = entitlement? you know, when i have some bud, I WILL give it away! in that regard, yes, i do believe in entitlement. EVERYONE should be entitled to get high! i'll make it happen. i'm not doing it for money, i'm in it for the love and don't you dare try and flip the purity of my motherfucking motives just because i might be forcing you to question yours.

instead of answering the points being brought up and the truths behind them because i REFUSE to kiss any greedy piece of shit ass, you're just another obfuscator trying to change the subject and deny reality. you can't help it, that's human nature... being ruled by your emotions.

you're no different than the kinds of people that defend michael the sicko jackson or who'll use any lie they can come up with to defend their religion when someone points out a contradiction in their beliefs. facts mean little to you, just towing the line and observing "the natural order". 

when i see ANY injustice, i attack the instigators whether they be greedy scum, racists, religious zealots or any other form of power hungry monsters.

"entitlements" is actually a term COINED by greedy scum to defend their position eg. calling social security an "entitlement" when you have to fucking pay into it. that you use it only shows that you follow the lead of greed and purvey it's twisted message. you don't hear those fox news scumbags ever calling corporate welfare an entitlement do you? no... just anything that cuts into THEIR fucking profits. i'm sure the irony of you're using it in defense of a corrupt greed based industry dictated ENTIRELY by the wants of those in it for the money and who are openly contemptuos of anyone that DARES question their "authority" is totally lost.

i'm entitled to get fucking high for the THOUSANDS of dollars i've handed over to greedy fucks who care about nothing but how much money they make and how fast they get it. THEY are the ones who think they're entitled, not FUCKING PAYING CUSTOMERS! get that shit straight. if you take money and don't make your customers happy or give one shit about them, you are a thief... plain and simple... just like the scum who raided the budget surplus, the housing market and every other "1%er market".

having a greedy "gimme! gimme! gimme!" attitude is the TRUE essence of entitlement. me? i take pride in my work... even if it's cleaning a fucking toilet! i've had greedy scum bosses get mad at me for going the extra mile to provide CUSTOMERS with top quality goods and services because i believe money should be EARNED.

your analogy isn't flawed, it's about as wrong as you can get. i'm a champion of fairness, even when i have to "take a loss". i don't believe in preferential treatment for ANYONE and that includes me too so take that entitlement label and stick it on someone who wants something for nothing... like, say, greedy dealers who want money for not getting anyone high.



> *Why don't you grow the fuck up and take care of your own needs for a change?*


 not even realizing your encouraging me to be greedy... again... the irony is lost on you i'm sure. i'll not only take care of my needs, but the needs of others as well and ask for nothing in return for it! unlike you, i'll do the right thing and be in the extreme minority. as to freebies... you won't get any from me though. i've decided i just don't like you and am muting you... no soup for you! JUST REMEMBER, i'm doing what you probably should for those ill gotten gains of your and delighting in the possibilty that i might undermine your buisiness operation by stealing customers who like getting high... especially for free. my conscience is clean

oh... one last piece of irony for you before i mute you Goldowitz, you call weed "ganja", the rastafarian term for weed. did you ALSO know that in the "red, yellow, green, black color scheme adopted by rastas that "gold = the color of greed"?


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## I85BLAX (Feb 6, 2012)

tree king said:


> exactly, i always laugh at people when they say that. i call it bc bud or beasters. that shit has gone so down hill over the years you mine as well call it the new commercial


you might aswell call it garbage!


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## Hemp Moody (Feb 6, 2012)

the THC Bomb is it a good strain, good high?? i ordered 10 seeds and will be starting soon, already started 5 Mazar, "they were FREE w/ order" also great place to order seeds from so far


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## Purplestickeypunch (Feb 6, 2012)

I'd have to say whatever "that guy" at the party is ranting about; but never seems to have any on him. That's the most overrated strain....


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## gargantuanganja (Feb 6, 2012)

AK47, imho


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## Jogro (Feb 7, 2012)

Please step down off the high-horse. 



hazey grapes said:


> entitlement my motherfucking ass! it's the greedy piece of shit fucks who steal money selling indicrap that think they're ucking entitled. holy fuck are you twisting that shit to the opposite! scumbags take money, but don't deliver the fucking goods.


Nobody is "stealing" anything. People buy the weed they want with their own cash, of their own free will and accord. 

If anyone doesn't like what's available on the marketplace, they're free not to buy it, let alone free not to come back to buy it AGAIN AND AGAIN! with huge smiles on their faces!

If the indica strains are so terrible, and selling it constitutes theft and fraud, as you claim, then why is it that people will drive for miles and stand in line to pay $300 an ounce for it? Because people love to be robbed and cheated? 

Have you considered the possibility that. . .even if you don't. . .that maybe there are some people who actually *like* indica strains? If these indica strains are so goddamned lousy, then how come they've been specifically cultivated for thousands of years for recreational and medicinal drug use in the subcontinent? Why do they exist at all?



> entitlement? i fight against theft and fraud and that = entitlement? you know, when i have some bud, I WILL give it away!


Good for you, Mr Santa Bud. 

Lets say that instead of giving it away, you were to sell your stuff to someone eager to pay for it. Would you then be a thief and con-artist? If not, why not?
Just because YOU don't want to make a living selling weed, does that mean that NOBODY else should ever be allowed to make a living doing it?

Alternatively, lets say your dealer tells you that he has two bags for sale. One is Afghan #1, a super potent and generally desirable medical indica strain. The other is Santa Marta (Columbian Gold), your holy grail of pure sativas. He says to you, "Hazey", you can have an ounce of the Afghani for $250 or an ounce of the Santa Marta for $350. Is he a thief and con-artist with the Indica strain, but not with the Sativa one? 



> in that regard, yes, i do believe in entitlement. EVERYONE should be entitled to get high! i'll make it happen. i'm not doing it for money, i'm in it for the love and don't you dare try and flip the purity of my motherfucking motives just because i might be forcing you to question yours.


I'm not questioning your motives; I'm questioning your economic literacy. 



> instead of answering the points being brought up and the truths behind them because i REFUSE to kiss any greedy piece of shit ass, you're just another obfuscator trying to change the subject and deny reality. you can't help it, that's human nature... being ruled by your emotions.


Would you care for a dose of reality to go with your unemotional integrity?

The "reality" is that as a commodity, marijuana is bulky and fragrant, making it difficult to smuggle across borders. That's why where cannabis is still widely smuggled across borders, hashish (which is more concentrated) is the most favored product. 

Since Reagan's "War on Drugs" its become increasingly difficult to smuggle "bales" of weed into the USA. That's why the big bricks of Columbian, and Jamaican (let alone Thai, etc) stopped coming into the USA in the early 1980s. Reduction in outdoor grown smuggled-in crops led to a burgeoning industry of indoor-grown domestic marijuana in the USA. Now things are at the point where it barely pays to even try to smuggle weed into the USA anymore.

Meanwhile, the pure sativa strains you seem to like are impossible to grow successfully outdoors in most of the USA because the growing season is too short. . .November frost kills them before they finish flowering. These same strains are also exceptionally difficult to grow indoors, because they grow into tall hermaphrodite-prone plants that give poor yields and take forever to ripen. These are the reasons why the sativa-marijuana from the 1970s is scarce in the USA, not because of any conspiracy of dealers or growers to screw you personally!

Do you actually believe that in the late 1970s drug dealers were all altruistic charitable types, but only NOW they're "greedy"?



> you're no different than the kinds of people that defend michael the sicko jackson or who'll use any lie they can come up with to defend their religion when someone points out a contradiction in their beliefs. facts mean little to you, just towing the line and observing "the natural order".


So to you, explaining how markets work is akin to the sexual abuse of children?

Have you ever considered that just maybe there are things in the world that happen for reasons you don't fully appreciate?



> when i see ANY injustice, i attack the instigators whether they be greedy scum, racists, religious zealots or any other form of power hungry monsters.


Can you explain again to me how dealers selling cannabis in a competitive marketplace to eager buyers (at legal risk to themselves, I might add) is an "injustice"? 
Or maybe its unjust to burst inflated conspiracy theories?



> if you take money and don't make your customers happy or give one shit about them, you are a thief... plain and simple... just like the scum who raided the budget surplus, the housing market and every other "1%er market".


Again, if the customers are unhappy how come the "greedy" dealers are still doing business?


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## RawBudzski (Feb 7, 2012)

they are stealing our money for selling indica seeds? What about the fact that indica is better than sativa to many ppl?


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Feb 7, 2012)

RawBudzski said:


> they are stealing our money for selling indica seeds? What about the fact that indica is better than sativa to many ppl?


 The cure for insomnia is some nice indica full of cbd those and most Autoflowers are excellent meds for insomniacs.


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## Jogro (Feb 7, 2012)

RawBudzski said:


> they are stealing our money for selling indica seeds? What about the fact that indica is better than sativa to many ppl?


They're "cheating" you and "stealing" your money because they're selling you indica-sativa hybrid strains that don't get Hazey Grapes "high" to his satisfaction.

The fact that you love to smoke it, are happy to pay for it, feel that YOU are getting what you want, that 99% of other weed-buyers feel exactly the same, and that Hazey Grapes isn't party to this transaction *AT ALL*, apparently has nothing to do with this. 

HE wants to give away sativas free to everyone, therefore YOU shouldn't be able to pay your own money for indica strains, and anyone else who sells them is greedy and cheating you. 

Got it?

Hazey-grapes is, in effect, whining because his local liquor store doesn't stock his favorite type of 35 year old scotch. . .
That's even though nobody else wants it, let alone wants to pay MORE for it. 
If you want to buy a bottle of Jack Daniels instead, you'll be cheated by greedy liquor store employees.


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## althor (Feb 7, 2012)

Of course its also alot easier to say "if I ever have weed, I will give it away" when you never have had any and you never will have any.

When I am a billionaire, I will give 1 million dollars to random people.


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## Swerve (Feb 7, 2012)

Purplestickeypunch said:


> I'd have to say whatever "that guy" at the party is ranting about; but never seems to have any on him. That's the most overrated strain....



Awesome Statement right there!!!! K+++++


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## alphawolf.hack (Feb 7, 2012)

wow so this has moved on to say a genus of cannibis is shitty? man your motherfuckin jack ass. i love weed i have to smoke a different strain every day for the most part, sativa or indica. some weed suck some is great this is opinion on a specific strain some smoke that didnt satisfy you. we didnt come here to hear you rave about how great sativa is. yes some sativa is good yes some sativa are bad same with indica. the BEST WEED is probably a mix of the 2 and probably has not been found yet. 

so get off your high horse adn stick to your preferences as i will mine. so im gonna be happy and smoke this master kush and get high as fuck.

peace.


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## The Chemist Brothers (Feb 7, 2012)

most overrated? i'm going with Blueberry


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## hazey grapes (Feb 8, 2012)

> *Nobody is "stealing" anything. People buy the weed they want with their own cash, of their own free will and accord. *


man do i hate it when apologists try to obfuscate the truth with flat out LIES

not ONE motherfucking dealer out of 2 dozen or more in 25 years has EVER sold me anything but fuck off and die bitch indicrap. not only that, but i have to deal with soon to be muted sheep like you who DEFEND that status quo! quit trying to defend your greed based fascist regime with lies. the FACT is at least 20% of smokers like me DEMAND to get high and want nothing to do with afghanicrap EVER and another 25% or more at least prefer getting high with those who demand getting stoneds only being the smallest minority so fuck your supply & demand theories all to hell.

if you don't like indicrap contempt, then you must be another greedy ass cash crapper who gets their panties in a bunch whenever anyone dares to point out that you're growing useless schwag many wouldn't walk across the street to take a dump on. 

keep your lies to yourself whydontcha? there IS a demand for getting high and a million asshole dealers who refuse to provide the service because it's less profitable and they have no pride in their gear or scruples to give people what they want. think i'm the only one who hates the status quo? 

here's a quote from another fan of bud that actually gets you high and a PERFECT example of yet another greedy fuck dealer i'd tell _*"go fuck of and die bitch!" *_if he dared give me that kind of attitude on my motherfucking dollar as i've told 2 dozen other useless pieces of shit the same thing for far less


> *
> Me personally, I'm not a (heavy) indica person - but I have my reasons. Mainly because I have clinically diagnosed neurological problems... I'm sure you know enough at med's as to why sativa's help me better. I had the same issues with my "old" dealer before I became legal. A few times I would get a good sativa and request that he ask for it again. He would yell at me giving me all kinds of shit about how it wasn't that good, and sativas take too long to grow, are stringy with no bag appeal, etc.
> *


 by buddy232 at https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/484337-what-strains-should-i-use.html#post6584314

and just recently in a thread where people are growing for love with pride for SUPERIOR weed (vietnamese strains no less) by


> * Defly not enough sativa growers.*


 said by niko bellick here https://www.rollitup.org/breeders-paradise/507789-vietnamese-strains-3.html

then there was my cousin who had a meltdown over my saying i wasn't impressed by his sticky afghanicrap bud a few years ago because he honestly didn't believe my claims that getting high is different because he thought _"all weed is exactly the same!"_ which IS true on most streets, especially in NY.

quit fucking defending the status quo that does NOTHING for those of us who have absolutely zero use for your afghanicrap. if you don't like to hear complaints against it, grow some actual good bud and take away any reason for us to complain. otherwise, you're a fascist defender of an evil greedy nazi regime that attacks any descension. wahat are you? some kind of fucking commie that doesn't believe in free speech? whatever you are, don't call yourself an american if you can't take democracy in action

i'm about sick and tired of being attacked by the forces of evil for questioning their greedy piece of shit empire! don't try to claim the higher (IRONIC!) ground defending greed and trying to silence anyone that questions it or your lies. you lose. and now you're muted as i'm not going to indulge you another second.

the FACT is that 99% of the time anyone that grows for money sucks afghani dick and anyone that grows for quality doesn't give a shit about money so either way, you can't get high anywhere. the harder purveyors of afghani try to silence me for demanding to get high, the more i want to smash their skulls in. it's better to just mute them and let them think their reign is absolute and unquestioned. i'm done listening to your lies and obfuscation enemy of truth and customer satisfaction.



> *they are stealing our money for selling indica seeds? What about the fact that indica is better than sativa to many ppl? *


 what made you think that fact eludes me? the fact is they're clearly in the MINORITY though and come on... they have NO PROBLEM getting what they want. how many effing ways do i have to say "i've wasted 25 years of my life and thousands of dollars" before i can get through to you? i'm not muting you as you're keeping it civil but fuckin' A... WHERE ARE THE MOTHERFUCKING SATIVAS ON THE STREETS? show me where they are and then you'll instantly shut me up with facts.

it's the same thing with the current occupy movement really. i've been going off about greed and lobbyists for DECADES and am actually ANNOYED that the ONLY way to get others to join the fight for right is ONLY when the injustice touches them PERSONALLY. i kind of have contempt for the late joiners. y'all didn't want to fucking here about it when it was "someone else's problem" but now that your pension has been stolen, your house foreclosed, your children born with environmentally induced birth defects etc. only fucking NOW do you care about the effects of greed because you're just as fucking selfish at your core as those that screwed you over.

THAT is my point that i just can't get through to those of you who are ruled by your emotions and maintaining the status quo. you just aren't hearing me though because all you can do is focus on my RIGHTEOUS outrage and refuse to think about the reasons behind it. 

if the market were NOT flooded by greedy assholes whose ONLY concerns are how much money they can make and how fast, then there would fucking be sativas on the streets but there aren't! as i've said before too, there are even growers out there who STEAL their money off their customers growing indicrap and then take it to the rare connoisseur grower and get haze for their own headstash. they won't even smoke their own fucking gear. how can ANYONE sit there attacking me and NOT the thief who knows his own stuff sucks? 

until you start putting sativas on the streets for those who demand them, you have zero cause to attack me.

when i grow my stuff that takes a dump on yours, i'll give it away for free because, unlike you, i'm not ruled by greed and would be ASHAMED to try and pull that shit on people handing me their hard earned, especially in this economy wrecked by GREED.

you can't have it both fucking ways. you can't make 99% of the market indica so no one can get high and then have the fucking brass to attack anyone who points out how corrupt said system is. "if you don't like it, grow your own" might be your knee jerk reaction, but what that REALLY is saying is "if you don't like this communist regime, you are an enemy of the state that must be eradicated as we will accept no descension whatsoever!" i know i'm wasting my breath because those that only think through their EMOTIONS are deaf to facts & logic. that won't ever stop me from fighting for fairness as i was fighting against the greed that took your house long before you were, not because it had anything to do with me personally, but because it was the right thing to do just as questioning the TOTAL lack of sativa availability is the right thing to do. even when i have a stash of my own that gets me high, i won't stop the fight because the forces of evil are still STEALING money from those they should be getting high if only they weren't greedy "gimme! gimme! gimme!" fucks.

there's no middle ground, you're either a greedy fuck, or someone who cares. if you don't like looking yourself in the mirror, then stop grabbing that last % of $ and start offering your customers that want better what they deserve. if you argue with me, you're telling everyone that only want to get high "fuck you! i got mine! it sucks to be you!" and there's nothing you can say to change the subject or attack me for my "insolence" that will change the fact and if you do, i'll just mute you as you should me if the truth bothers you.

i can look myself in the mirror because anyone i piss off has that or worse coming to them and i don't screw anyone over. if you don't like MY malawi gold... no refunds because it cost you nothing.

i give away top quality "high dollar" shit and somehow I'M the asshole? REALLY?! you can't see what's wrong with that picture?


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## althor (Feb 8, 2012)

Mods need to step up, like every other growsite on the web, and get rid of this guy. Nothing but lie after lie after lie. Doesnt grow (just lies about it) doesnt smoke (just lies about a "gifted" bud from 4 years ago) and spreads crazy untrue information.

HAHAHA about that "cousin" story. I can link you to hundreds of posts of him saying the exact same thing about HIS COUSIN. The exact same story and how his cousin wont speak to him anymore etc. etc. Man this guy lies about everything, unreal. Anyone want to make a bet the "quotes from other sativa lovers" are his aliases? Considering they are saying the exact same thing, using the same words he uses etc. 

Just amazing.

As a grower, who grows 100% for my own personal use, never ever ever sale, I can disagree 100% about only those in it for money grow indica... I give buds to my closest friends, each and every one of them prefer my mostly indicas. They dont pay for it, they dont grow it, I just give them samples of each plant and they call me back and give me their opinions. As of right now, cataract kush has been (unanimously) their favorite strain, the mostly indica phenos.


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## Sunbiz1 (Feb 8, 2012)

hazey grapes said:


> man do i hate it when apologists try to obfuscate the truth with flat out LIES
> 
> not ONE motherfucking dealer out of 2 dozen or more in 25 years has EVER sold me anything but fuck off and die bitch indicrap. not only that, but i have to deal with soon to be muted sheep like you who DEFEND that status quo! quit trying to defend your greed based fascist regime with lies. the FACT is at least 20% of smokers like me DEMAND to get high and want nothing to do with afghanicrap EVER and another 25% or more at least prefer getting high with those who demand getting stoneds only being the smallest minority so fuck your supply & demand theories all to hell.
> 
> ...


In your case, drinking and posting are not a good mix.


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## Bigtacofarmer (Feb 8, 2012)

althor said:


> Mods need to step up, like every other growsite on the web, and get rid of this guy. Nothing but lie after lie after lie. Doesnt grow (just lies about it) doesnt smoke (just lies about a "gifted" bud from 4 years ago) and spreads crazy untrue information.
> 
> HAHAHA about that "cousin" story. I can link you to hundreds of posts of him saying the exact same thing about HIS COUSIN. The exact same story and how his cousin wont speak to him anymore etc. etc. Man this guy lies about everything, unreal. Anyone want to make a bet the "quotes from other sativa lovers" are his aliases? Considering they are saying the exact same thing, using the same words he uses etc.
> 
> ...


Ah Cataract Kush, I haven't read many goo reviews but I couldn't deal with the one little indica pheno. Everyone I know loved it but I tend to smoke alot and it gets me curled up hoping I don't have a heart attack, lol! No underating there! I finally learned if I just let myself relax it get super psychedelic and after making some cookiesa and eating a little LSD I screwed myself up for well over 18 hours (wife even cried I was so high for so long) and I'm pretty experienced. Ahh Cataract, the only strain in 8 years of growing and 10 more of traveling the Northwest to do me in. I don't have it anymore just because it hurt to much, go figure!


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## welshsmoker (Feb 8, 2012)

BullwinkleOG said:


> OG Kush is definitely not overrated if you're getting the true strain. My tolerance is so high that I no longer really rate buds on their high, its hard to get a good buzz unless I eat a jumbo on the rise (7.5 gram dwt cannabis flowers) however OG Kush is an amazing smelling strain. Even now growing if I rub the stem it fills your scents with a nice sour skunk smell. I would have to say the most overrated strain out here right now is girl scout cookies. Its an indica dominant strain I believe it has a very good smell but it had so much hype there's no way it couldn't have been a letdown. I'm growing white widow right now and I haven't tried it yet but when I was a youngster everyone had white widow or claimed to have it. I doubt I even have the true cut (got a darkheart clone from harborside). I decided if I want to try it I gotta grow it myself. On the other hand Romulan IMO is a legendary strain that is underrated around here. It's an Indica and it will knock you on your ass but it is damn potent in the head too.


i just tried a bit now, 
not impressed to be honest.


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## welshsmoker (Feb 8, 2012)

Jogro said:


> Please step down off the high-horse.
> 
> 
> Nobody is "stealing" anything. People buy the weed they want with their own cash, of their own free will and accord.
> ...


well said, i can get shit that dont stink by the way in bricks and people love it.


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## thump easy (Feb 8, 2012)

what about fum under kush?


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## thump easy (Feb 8, 2012)

fum under? YA FROM UNDER THEESE NUTS LOLZ


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## welshsmoker (Feb 8, 2012)

hazey grapes said:


> man do i hate it when apologists try to obfuscate the truth with flat out LIES
> 
> not ONE motherfucking dealer out of 2 dozen or more in 25 years has EVER sold me anything but fuck off and die bitch indicrap. not only that, but i have to deal with soon to be muted sheep like you who DEFEND that status quo! quit trying to defend your greed based fascist regime with lies. the FACT is at least 20% of smokers like me DEMAND to get high and want nothing to do with afghanicrap EVER and another 25% or more at least prefer getting high with those who demand getting stoneds only being the smallest minority so fuck your supply & demand theories all to hell.
> 
> ...


chill out man. some people here grow quality and sell commercial quite happily for a living.


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## Goldowitz (Feb 8, 2012)

hazey grapes said:


> man do i hate it when apologists try to obfuscate the truth with flat out LIES
> 
> not ONE motherfucking dealer out of 2 dozen or more in 25 years has EVER sold me anything but fuck off and die bitch indicrap. not only that, but i have to deal with soon to be muted sheep like you who DEFEND that status quo! quit trying to defend your greed based fascist regime with lies. the FACT is at least 20% of smokers like me DEMAND to get high and want nothing to do with afghanicrap EVER and another 25% or more at least prefer getting high with those who demand getting stoneds only being the smallest minority so fuck your supply & demand theories all to hell.
> 
> ...



LMAO, what a tool bag. 

In this thread he talks aboout the C99 and A11 he is growing...

https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/403357-mosca-seeds-cinderella-99-bx-2.html


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## Jogro (Feb 8, 2012)

hazey grapes said:


> man do i hate it when apologists try to obfuscate the truth with flat out LIES


What did I say that was a lie? 
I note, incidentally, that you didn't answer a single question I posed to you. 
Again, would you care to explain how the customers who eagerly fork over hundreds of dollars of their hard-earned cash for couch-lock indicas are being "robbed and cheated"?



> not ONE motherfucking dealer out of 2 dozen or more in 25 years has EVER sold me anything but fuck off and die bitch indicrap. not only that, but i have to deal with soon to be muted sheep like you who DEFEND that status quo! quit trying to defend your greed based fascist regime with lies.


I didn't "defend" anything; I explained to you why the pure landrace Sativa strains fell out of the US market roughly 25 years ago. 
Apparently, you'd rather believe in far-fetched conspiracy theories about greed and personal animus, than simple explanations of why its not commercially viable to grow sativas indoors in this marketplace. 
Here's another question I know you won't bother to answer. . .if dealers are so "greedy" as you claim, why would they NOT want to make money selling you what you "demand"?
If, as you claim, that fully 1/5 of smokers DEMAND pure sativa plants, why aren't these greedy dealers jumping in front of one another to make those sales?



> the FACT is at least 20% of smokers like me DEMAND to get high and want nothing to do with afghanicrap EVER and another 25% or more at least prefer getting high with those who demand getting stoneds only being the smallest minority so fuck your supply & demand theories all to hell.


I'd argue that 100% of "smokers like you DEMAND" to get high. Unfortunately for you, 100% of 1 is still 1. 
Any other smokers who want sativa plants simply grow them themselves and don't whine about not being able to buy it from some sleazy street-corner dealer.
You wouldn't catch me complaining that my local gas station only stocks Bud and Miller, and how there is some "EVIL FASCIST" conspiracy to keep the GOOD beers out of gas stations!



> if you don't like indicrap contempt, then you must be another greedy ass cash crapper who gets their panties in a bunch whenever anyone dares to point out that you're growing useless schwag many wouldn't walk across the street to take a dump on.


Things are awfully black and white in your universe, aren't they?
Honestly, I don't care one way or the other about your contempt for indica strains. That's really your problem. 
Again, if you don't want to buy that product, then don't. But its pretty foolish to assume that everyone else in the marketplace is willingly (let alone repeatedly) buying products they don't want.
As to what I might be growing, this isn't about me, and the name-calling just reflects badly on you. 



> keep your lies to yourself whydontcha? there IS a demand for getting high and a million asshole dealers who refuse to provide the service because it's less profitable and they have no pride in their gear or scruples to give people what they want. think i'm the only one who hates the status quo?


I'm afraid this is just more economic illiteracy. 
Demand doesn't equal supply. 
Just because you "demand" Santa Marta, doesn't mean it will magically appear at your dealers' doorstep to sell to you.
They're not growing it for export in Columbia anymore. Where are they supposed to get it from?

Hating the status quo is neither necessary nor sufficient to change it. 



> quit fucking defending the status quo that does NOTHING for those of us who have absolutely zero use for your afghanicrap. if you don't like to hear complaints against it, grow some actual good bud and take away any reason for us to complain. otherwise, you're a fascist defender of an evil greedy nazi regime that attacks any descension. wahat are you? some kind of fucking commie that doesn't believe in free speech? whatever you are, don't call yourself an american if you can't take democracy in action


Now THIS is funny. 
First of all, you haven't the foggiest clue what I grow or have grown in my time so why on earth should I care what your utterly baseless opinion is? I'm supposed to be disturbed because YOU might not like it? LOL! Again, this isn't about me (or my nationality!) anyway. 

Yes, freedom of speech does give you the right to be a condescending prick if you so choose, but no amount of your ranting is going to improve the yields of sativa plants or make it worthwhile for time and cash-strapped indoor commercial growers to grow them! 

Lastly, the "Democracy" you trumpet has determined that cannabis is illegal. If you respect democracy so much, why are you demanding that people violate the law?



> i'm about sick and tired of being attacked by the forces of evil for questioning their greedy piece of shit empire! don't try to claim the higher (IRONIC!) ground defending greed and trying to silence anyone that questions it or your lies. you lose. and now you're muted as i'm not going to indulge you another second.


The "forces of evil"?
You know, I've heard that smoking sativa-strains can make you paranoid.
Didn't realize the changes were permanent, though. 



> the FACT is that 99% of the time anyone that grows for money sucks afghani dick and anyone that grows for quality doesn't give a shit about money so either way, you can't get high anywhere. the harder purveyors of afghani try to silence me for demanding to get high, the more i want to smash their skulls in. it's better to just mute them and let them think their reign is absolute and unquestioned. i'm done listening to your lies and obfuscation enemy of truth and customer satisfaction.


That's OK, since its pretty clear that nothing I said registered anyway. 
In your universe, apparently, its impossible for someone to want to put a high-end product in any marketplace, even if said product sells for a higher price and command higher margins. 



> what made you think that fact eludes me? the fact is they're clearly in the MINORITY though and come on... they have NO PROBLEM getting what they want. how many effing ways do i have to say "i've wasted 25 years of my life and thousands of dollars" before i can get through to you? i'm not muting you as you're keeping it civil but fuckin' A... WHERE ARE THE MOTHERFUCKING SATIVAS ON THE STREETS? show me where they are and then you'll instantly shut me up with facts.


Gosh . . .(slaps head). . .THERE ARE NO SATIVAS ON THE STREETS!
You sure got me there!

That's because in the 1970s, drug dealers and smugglers didn't care about such lowly things as "making money". But now, those scumbag drug dealers just want to make money!

You know, I wonder if there was some lunatic Nepalese immigrant in the USA in the early 1970s whining about the crazy sativa marijuana, and how he couldn't get stoned with any good indicas, and why the drug dealers were too greedy to import high end hash from Afghanistan! 



> THAT is my point that i just can't get through to those of you who are ruled by your emotions and maintaining the status quo. you just aren't hearing me though because all you can do is focus on my RIGHTEOUS outrage and refuse to think about the reasons behind it.


No, the reason you can't "get through to me" is because your arguments are full of invective, and simply make no sense. I'm listening, but all I'm hearing is a bunch ill-informed ranting about greed and name calling. 

I'm also not the one with the problem here. I like sativas too, but personally, I don't give a rat's ass what kind of weed is, or isn't, on the commercial market. Would you care to guess why not? 



> if the market were NOT flooded by greedy assholes whose ONLY concerns are how much money they can make and how fast, then there would fucking be sativas on the streets but there aren't! as i've said before too, there are even growers out there who STEAL their money off their customers growing indicrap and then take it to the rare connoisseur grower and get haze for their own headstash. they won't even smoke their own fucking gear. how can ANYONE sit there attacking me and NOT the thief who knows his own stuff sucks?


Back to economics 101. 
Greed is a CONSTANT, like GRAVITY. Drug dealers today aren't any more. . .or less. . .greedy than they were 25 years ago.
They were in it for the money in 1975, in 1985, in 1995, in 2005, and they're still in it for the money today. 
However, the MJ business is fundamentally like any other. If you want to make money, you still have to please the customers.
The lack of sativas in the marketplace has NOTHING to do with greed, and EVERYTHING to do with the difference between a crop that was primarily grown OUTDOORS through the early 1980s and INDOORS since then. Get it?
As to dealers wanting to smoke something better than their own product, do you think Augustus Busch VII drinks nothing but Bud Lite?



> until you start putting sativas on the streets for those who demand them, you have zero cause to attack me.


I didn't attack you; I pointed out that your reasoning is flawed. The character of commercially available cannabis in the USA didn't change because of "greed", it changed because of significant changes in SUPPLY. Again, sativa plants have to be grown OUTDOORS, WAY South of the American border then smuggled into the USA. What these things weren't practical anymore, INDOOR growers switched to indica-hybrids out of necessity, and the "bales" disappeared. 

Incidentally if you want sativa-dominant weed, you can get it anywhere in the USA. . .so long as you are willing to develop a connection and pay the right price for it. Slap down enough cash on the table, and someone will bring it to you. 

So let me flip this over on its head. *Why are you so cheap that you won't pay for the MJ you "demand"? Are you TOO GREEDY to pay a fair price for it?*



> when i grow my stuff that takes a dump on yours, i'll give it away for free


When my grandmother sprouts wings, she'll be a stealth bomber. 
By the way, does this "when" formulation mean that *you've never actually grown a single plant in your entire life, let alone a pure landrace sativa?*

If you've actually TRIED doing so, you might have some appreciation for why its not typically done indoors on a commercial scale. If you haven't, you ought to try it sometime; you'll learn something useful. 
If you ARE growing indoors yourself, then what on earth are you complaining about?

I'm really not going to respond to the rest of your post, because I've wasted too much of my life on this post already, and like the rest, its long on name-calling, and short on reason.

The only thing I'm going to add is, that if I were you, I wouldn't be holding my breath for a return of the Panama Red, Acapulco or Columbian Golds on your streetcorner anytime soon.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Feb 8, 2012)

guys, why do you intend on giving the troll a 10 page response to his utterly ridiculous sense of logic and addiction, 

rule 1

dont feed the trolls

rule 2

pretend they dont exist

rule 3

make sure you follow rules 1 and 2.


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## Jogro (Feb 8, 2012)

welshsmoker said:


> chill out man. some people here grow quality and sell commercial quite happily for a living.


Some people really just don't understand economics, capitalism, or markets. 

Being "greedy" and wanting to put out the best possible product are not only not mutually exclusive, they go hand in hand. 

If you want to make the most money possible selling your product (whatever it is), then all else being equal, you'd generally want to sell the highest quality product possible, since profit margins are usually highest at the top end of the market. 

Put more simply, you'll probably make more money selling top-shelf herb than schwagg, so if you're growing for cash, you're going to want to grow the better stuff. .


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## Jogro (Feb 8, 2012)

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> guys, why do you intend on giving the troll a 10 page response to his utterly ridiculous sense of logic and addiction,


Cause I'm stupid and arrogant enough to think that a carefully worded logical argument will actually be persuasive. 
I'm also bored, and its fun. 



> rule 1: dont feed the trolls
> rule 2: pretend they dont exist
> rule 3: make sure you follow rules 1 and 2.


OK. 
I admit it. You're right.

Getting back on track, most "overrated" strain is probably anything that won the High Times cannabis cup in the previous year.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Feb 8, 2012)

Jogro said:


> Cause I'm stupid and arrogant enough to think that a carefully worded logical argument will actually be persuasive.
> I'm also bored, and its fun.
> 
> 
> ...


Yea i look at it like this


cannabis cup winners/new untested og crosses/


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## alphawolf.hack (Feb 8, 2012)

you the man jogro. fuck that asshole and that ridicules bullshit. i would say i smoked some bubble gum here recently that wasnt all that and it was actualy quite harsh but that might have been the dry.. not sure of its heritage.


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## ddimebag (Feb 9, 2012)

definitely agree on the white widow...i tried it many times in many different coffeeshops, and i was never impressed.


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## shmokinzeeveed (Feb 9, 2012)

> Drop your dealer, grow your own & GET HIGH!!!


Now where did I read this ? It answers that hazy confusing rant.


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## cleverpiggy (Feb 9, 2012)

Jogro said:


> Agreeing heartily with all of this, and just to expand, max modern hybrid strain potency has probably been achieved over 20 years ago. (I say "modern hybrid" to contrast with max pure sativa/pure indica landrace potency, which was probably achieved independently in many parts of the globe HUNDREDS of years ago). Strains most definitely are NOT getting more potent every year.
> 
> Just in terms of absolute potency, "Williams Wonder" from 1990 (or earlier) is probably as strong as anything from today, and even a good cut of Northern Lights is still better than much of the stuff out there nowadays in terms of potency.
> 
> ...


Jorgo.
Wow this is one of the most insightful prolific posts I have ever read on any of these sites. Between you and Brick Top I cant stop agreeing with everything you two have to say. I had a Williams Wonder cut in 1991 that is still considered among my peers as the benchmark to any gear around today. I got out of the scene for 10 years in 1993, after getting back in 13 years later I still have not found anything as good as that SSSC Williams Wonder cut. I wish that people today could get a taste of that strain. We called it the breath bud because you needed to remind yourself to do so after smoking it. I must say the taste was also the best I have ever had. Along the lines of Williams Wonder I must say Skunk #1 from Cultivators Choice was amazing circa 1989-1990 so pure so simple, grown in a Phototron one plant at a time. This stuff would fill a football stadium with skunk stench and blow your doors off. I hate to get on the old days kick but man, I have to say its true. One more amazing strain was the Pluton from SSSC, biggest yield (dense Nerf football size buds) you have ever seen with supreme potency. 

I am not naive to the fact that today there is some truly great stuff but boy of boy the older stuff was truly legendary. As far as the Cannabis Cup is concerned be very careful of cup winners. The cup is not a very good delta for judging genetics, rather an arena for powerful marketing. I learned this first hand with Green House El Nino. This gear looked and smelled fantastic, with literally no high whatsoever. Again great post sir, I got to page 8 and had to write this I cant wait to finish this thread.


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## Jogro (Feb 9, 2012)

cleverpiggy said:


> Jorgo.
> Wow this is one of the most insightful prolific posts I have ever read on any of these sites. Between you and Brick Top I cant stop agreeing with everything you two have to say. I had a Williams Wonder cut in 1991 that is still considered among my peers as the benchmark to any gear around today. .


Thank you. 

Yeah, I wish I could find some "Willie's Wonder" myself. 

"Reeferman seeds" listed a version for sale as recently as two years ago, supposedly a direct descendant of the original SSSC genetics, though I think the company is now defunct, and the seeds appear impossible to come by now. 

Despite that, I know the strain isn't totally extinct (as some have claimed), because in an interview Dru, the author of the "West Coast Masters" grow book, praised Williams Wonder specifically as one of the only few strains that he continually grows. He's from WA State, and apparently that strain is still being grown locally up there. It also probably goes without saying that this guy knows his way around a few strains, and it says something that WW is one of his few "keepers". 

Not incidentally, for all its reputation as a modern "wonder" strain, supposedly "William's Wonder" itself is a direct descendant of one of the pre-Soviet invasion Afghan indicas, renamed. In other words, this strain that by most accounts is as good as any of the "name" strains from the last 30 years, itself probably can be traced back for at least another 100 years, if not longer. Again, max potency achieved MANY years ago, FAR away from modern Dutch breeding. 






View attachment 2049533


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## ststepen420 (Feb 9, 2012)

Anything doggies nuts puts out has to be overrated simply because of price.....anything kush and purple, well not all just most.


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## Trapt1nw0nder (Feb 12, 2012)

Barney's Farm Blue Cheese is definitely above average..... Have not tried Big Buddah's, but out of 2 pick n mix beans, they both were pretty similar, and dank as hell, plus a favorite among many.... I am currently out, but will def be getting more soon.. will get a pack this time, and hope for the same results, if not better..... 

and seriously.... who does Hazey think he's kidding?...lol.... Kinda embarrassed for him, but he keeps coming back..... think's if he swears and typed in CAPS and Colors, it's gonna convince us that he's actually sane.. :/...

Overrated, I'd have to go with SAGE.... But then again, I only grew 2 beans, and have 3 left.... But i didnt find enough reason to waste my time and space on looking for a better pheno.... I like it, dont get me wrong, but for THSeeds saying it's their baby and best plant, I was expecting something better.... I love THSeed's A-Train, and It only took 1 bean to find a winner... Got lucky i think, cuz it's the best smoke I've ever had.... Need to buy a pack of those too....

Have yet to try anything TGA, but I think that's next on my list for this season outdoor crop...... Recommendations? Right now leaning towards Vortex, Plush, and Jilly..... and I have 1 QT and the freebie DQ and Chernobyl Attitude gave out a while back...


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## hazey grapes (Feb 12, 2012)

i'm sane, just socially inept with little time or patience for social climbing stoopid primate games. if you don't like what i have to say, just mute me as i would extend the same courtesy to you when you start getting on my nerves for testing my personal space.

unless i'm joking, i don't kid around. i'm more honest than you and everyone you know put together. it only makes me enemies, but my pride is strong than others' reptilian brain idiocy.


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## Bigtacofarmer (Feb 13, 2012)

I myself am only offended when you clearly make things up (talk out yer ass) and provide bullshit advice to others. All the other stupid repetetive, drunk ramblings about Colombians and Indians is kinda funny, I thought racism was out?


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## tardis (Feb 13, 2012)

jackoladd said:


> cheese, yeah i said it . everyone i know loves it but it's it just not for me


I too think Cheese is overrated. The High just doesn't do it for me either.


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## tardis (Feb 13, 2012)

I have to go with DNA RKS. I thought it sucked.


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## Fac33 (Feb 13, 2012)

Barneys Farm, Tangerine Dream was the worst thing ive grown, all 10 plants were a waste of time and money growing. Hyped to the hill but was total shit! I couldnt wait to cut them down to get shot.


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## wheezer (Feb 13, 2012)

hazey grapes said:


> i'm sane, just socially inept with little time or patience for social climbing stoopid primate games. if you don't like what i have to say, just mute me as i would extend the same courtesy to you when you start getting on my nerves for testing my personal space.
> 
> unless i'm joking, i don't kid around. i'm more honest than you and everyone you know put together. it only makes me enemies, but my pride is strong than others' reptilian brain idiocy.


Good idea.....another ass hat on "ignore"


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## I85BLAX (Feb 13, 2012)

Fac33 said:


> Barneys Farm, Tangerine Dream was the worst thing ive grown, all 10 plants were a waste of time and money growing. Hyped to the hill but was total shit! I couldnt wait to cut them down to get shot.


I've heard that a few times!


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## hazey grapes (Feb 13, 2012)

oh boy a butt buddy mute two fer!


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## jman0998 (Feb 13, 2012)

Come on somebody else has gotta have another oppinion on this, 
BUMP


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## Jogro (Feb 13, 2012)

jman0998 said:


> Come on somebody else has gotta have another oppinion on this,
> BUMP


Over-rated?

Again, anything that won or placed in a recent "High Times Cannabis Cup" is almost by definition overrated. Its not that these strains are necessarily bad, just that the hype surrounding that particular contest far exceeds its legitimacy in rating strains. 

That cup is NOT the "be-all end-all" that its sponsors would have you believe; its just a marketing gimmick to sell magazines and hype advertiser's products (which, of course, is a win for the magazine too). For every kick-ass cup winner, there are probably several others entered into the contest that are just as good that didn't win or place for various reasons, and ten to twenty others just as good that were never entered.

Any genetics that costs over $20 a seed is probably overrated, though in practice not every expensive seed is actually rated highly. EG, does anyone actually think that "Doggies Nuts" seeds are really better than everything else on the market? The best genetics from the very best recognized breeders can generally be had for less than that, and certainly world-class genetics can be had for only a fraction of that price. 

I'd almost go so far as to say that anything with "OG" or "Kush" in the name is overrated, but that's probably a bit of an exaggeration since many of those strains actually are pretty good. Its just that "OG" and "Kush" happen to be the big "buzzwords" now, so they get attached to a lot of stuff that isn't really exceptional. Most of those OG/Kush/Diesel strains are just minor variants of the same thing with corresponding hype. 

So along those lines, whatever strain happens to be "flavor of the month" is the one that's overrated. Again, since max potency has been achieved already, no new strain is really going to be any more potent than the best of the older ones going back at least 20+ years. At best you're talking about a new strain that literally has the "flavor of the month", something that is pretty subjective.


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## ataxia (Feb 16, 2012)

I85BLAX said:


> you live in the city of the Original N.Y.C Deisel (official), that sour was a damn knock off attempt that just doesn't have quite the kick of the original!


Have to agree with this ....last summer it was all Sour D. great flavor, good high..
this winter it's nothing but NYCD ...... flavor isn't as delicious but .. it buries Sour D in terms of potentcy ...IMO


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## cyanescent (Feb 16, 2012)

Super skunk, white widow, white shark, big bud,and similar skunk/afghan crosses produce something like anti high.


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## canna_420 (Feb 16, 2012)

cyanescent said:


> Super skunk, white widow, white shark, big bud,and similar skunk/afghan crosses produce something like anti high.


you must be doing something wrong their.
or you got all nirvana strains?

or you may have ad CBD rich that would level your head


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## althor (Feb 16, 2012)

Super Skunk kicks ass, how could anyone not appreciate super skunk?!?


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jun 3, 2012)

Everything i have grown from Barney's Farm has been overrated, now going with critical kush and pineapple chunk look really lackluster.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jun 3, 2012)

cyanescent said:


> Super skunk, white widow, white shark, big bud,and similar skunk/afghan crosses produce something like anti high.


 CBD and CBN can negate some of the effects of thc and thc-v but it doesn't produce an anti high, it merely alters effects of thc depending on the portions used. this is why cannabanoid profile is very important when breeding.


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