# Automatic pH Controller



## iamomeed (Jan 30, 2008)

Noticed a bunch of posts lately about difficulty maintaining pH levels. My friend uses this and says its great. I havent seen anyone mention these types of units

SH Hydroponics > Automatic pH Controller Reservoir Kit






As plants grow they extract nutrients from the reservoir, in doing so, they raise the potential hydrogen (pH) of the solution. This is particularly pronounced with larger plants.

The Automatic pH Controller Reservoir provides the ultimate pH management solution. You can automatically set your pH level and let the pH controller automatically adjust the reservoir pH level whenever it rises above the set level.

Imagine, never having to check or adjust you pH, EVER!!!


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## infamouse21 (Jan 30, 2008)

damn ive been wondering about one of these.


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## LoudBlunts (Jan 30, 2008)

stealth hydro is crap


GOOD reliable ph controllers are expensive and not practical if you have more than 1 or 2 res.


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## infamouse21 (Jan 30, 2008)

weve got the waterproof ppm & tds meters right now they work great havent had to recal.. since we got them 3 months ago. we check everymoring & correct but if we go away for a few days that would be a good thing to have handy.


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## LoudBlunts (Jan 30, 2008)

Growtronix, Greenhouse Controller and Grow Room Computer Automation System


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## Earl (Jan 30, 2008)

It is not necessary to adjust the pH 
if you have your solution properly buffered.

I can go for weeks without any adjustment, 
after I have buffered my solution.

I just add plain RO, 
with no pH adjustment, 
and my pH is perfect at 5.6

There are four agents that you should use 
in the correct combination 
to get your solution to the proper state of buffer.

Phosphoric acid
Potassium Silicate
Potassium Carbonate 
Potassium Hydroxide.

This can only be done with RO or Distilled water,
and a digital pH meter so you can maintain 5.6.

Use the P-silicate first, 
and then the P-carbonate & P-hydroxide in combination.

It takes about four days of checking the pH, 
at least twice a day, 
to get the solution properly buffered, 
depending on whether the mfg of the nutes 
you are using has already buffered the nutes.

If you have unbuffered nutes, 
then you may not need the Phosphoric acid.

Once you learn to buffer your solution
you will have less pH fluctuations.


.


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## infamouse21 (Feb 2, 2008)

damn i like that web site.
deff looks way better of a deal than buying 1 of those moduals for 1200$.
not 2 mention all the things the computer software is capable of.
thought i dont like the remote access deal from another location but im shure that is easily disabeld.
good find!


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## Odis (Apr 7, 2009)

hey i would like to hear some new info on auto ph controlers looks like this is a dead thread. is there any new hot cotroler out now?


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## intlplayn (Dec 2, 2009)

Earl said:


> It is not necessary to adjust the pH
> if you have your solution properly buffered.
> 
> I can go for weeks without any adjustment,
> ...


I know I know, this is an old thread but come on, i've never seen this info anywhere before. Dude, are you serious? I've never heard that before, that would be so awesome! I've been manually checking them on 3 diff rez's everyday an its becoming a pain in the u know what!

Where do I get those products u mention? ie:
Phosphoric acid
Potassium Silicate
Potassium Carbonate 
Potassium Hydroxide.

Does AN make them? and how much each do I add? your a lifesaver if you can save me from buying 3 separate automatic ph adjusters to handle this headache for me...


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## kushRx (Dec 9, 2009)

man if checkin and fixin your ph is such a hassel then why grow? is everything thing else going to be lackin attention? lol


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## fatman7574 (Dec 11, 2009)

Earl is a dumb ass. His write up just really just tells you how to adjust your pH. Silica phospahte will not do anything to buffer your pH. It is not meant as a pH up either. It is mearley a supplement. Silicate is merely a supplement. As it contains a hydroxide it will *temporarily* raise the pH. The small amount of potassium carbonate in thee pH up solutions is only meant to buffer as much as was needed to neutralize the amount of acid that orginally dropped your pH. So if your pH drooped in one Dya it will only buffer for one day. If you want proper buffering add more magnesium and calcium. That will form into magnesium calcium carbonate. It is a very good buffer. It is used in almost every nutrient formulation, however usually in amounts that are insufficient.


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## fatman7574 (Dec 11, 2009)

kushRx said:


> man if checkin and fixin your ph is such a hassel then why grow? is everything thing else going to be lackin attention? lol


It is not a hassle, Earl is just a dumb ass.


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## fatman7574 (Dec 11, 2009)

If you really want to keep a handle on your pH just watch Ebay for a good priv ce on a Hach GLI (Great Lakes Instruments) pH analyzer/controller. I have bought n many for $50 to $75 each. They retail for about $950 each. I have never had one wera out. I have some and two sepearte audio or visual alarms. One to raise the pH am nd y the other to lower the pH. Use those in conjunctiom with some cheap Masterflex Peristaltic pumps. Total cost about $200 to $250. It will monitor and adjust the pH 24 hours per day to what ever settings you choose. The accuracy is what ever accuracy you pH probe provides. You should also have an automatic water top off device. Most people just use a float valve and a raised fresh water reservoir. For safer contri ol use a double flat relay and a small pump and fresh water reservoir instead. The device you show is not very good and is not sold at a good price. It is a cheap Ph monitor/controller y used on aquariums set up with a single reservoir as it can only be st to raise the pH or lower it, not both. with that sytem you would need to buy tow units to control the pH for both upward and downward control. ie $398 for hobby grade equipment. Not a very good deal.

Controllers:

http://cgi.ebay.com/GLI-Model-672P-672P3F1CONN-PH-Analyzer_W0QQitemZ220492541819QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Control_Systems_PLCs?hash=item3356612f7b

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=great+lakes+instruments+controller&_sacat=0&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_odkw=hach+controller&_osacat=0

Pumps:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cole-Parmer-Masterflex-Peristaltic-Pump-7543-01_W0QQitemZ140365419441QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Pumps?hash=item20ae6e53b1

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cole-Parmer-Masterflex-Peristaltic-Pump-7543-01_W0QQitemZ380185357146QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Pumps?hash=item5884d02b5a

Pump Heads (this is a larger one than you need) Just watch for smaller ones Say a L/S size 14 or a 16 or an easy Load L/S head. Typical cost $10 to $20 each or $25 to $50 for the Easy Load (Easy Load or Easy Load II will accept many size tubings rather than one tubing size).

http://cgi.ebay.com/Masterflex-7035-21-Standard-L-S-Pump-Head-NEW_W0QQitemZ140365738702QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Pumps?hash=item20ae7332ce

http://cgi.ebay.com/Masterflex-L-S-Model-77202-60-Peristaltic-Pump-Head_W0QQitemZ360215949244QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Pumps?hash=item53de8b2fbc

Ie from ebay using all commercial/laboratory grade equipment that is less than $200 for a complete pH set up but the pH probe and tubing. And that means to adjust both up and down. The pH probe and tubing can be bought for $25 on ebay. A box of tubing for the pumps that woud last a life time would run about $25 on ebay.


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## longbeachallstar (Jan 15, 2010)

I have no idea to use this blog thing - this is my first post - 

I was interested in how you set up your pH controller. 

at first i was just going to pick up the stealth hydro equipment they offered; but after reading your post - i wanted to know if you could give me some details. 

Does the GLI analyzer also act as a controller? Is there a drawing or detailed description you could provide to help me hook this contraption up? 

I've just ordered an analyzer - but i thought i'd wait for some more information before i buy additional components and understand the mechanics of your pH controller. 

anyways. hope you could help. 
thanks before hand.


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## fatman7574 (Jan 15, 2010)

The GLI analyzer does about everything but tie your shoes. The anlayzers are controllers with relay out puts to control both pumps and alarms. They have many different features to preveb nt over dosing and are extremely acco urate. They are made like tanks however in that they are made tough for industrila use so they are in water tight cases etc. There are many different models bases upon age mainly, but here is the page that has the down loads of most of their pH analyzer manuals.
http://www.hach.com/hc/view.file.categories.invoker/FILCAT_GLI_PH-ORP_MANUALS/NewLinkLabel=GLI+pH%26frasl%3BORP+Analyzer+Manuals/SESSIONID%7CA3pOakUwTURreE5qazBKbWQxWlhOMFVWQkRSMHd4TWc9PUJ6WQ==%7C


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## Doer (Jul 10, 2011)

I'm investigating a DIY set-up using a computer and USB. See my Journal.

Cheers!


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## Kdn (Jul 10, 2011)

Doer said:


> I'm investigating a DIY set-up using a computer and USB. See my Journal.
> 
> Cheers!


Hey doer, I have a setup working based on arduino and send logs via wifi/bluetooth to a computer. I have created ph, ppm, relay, temp, humidity, co2, energy widgets that can interface any uC(w/ADC). I am working on finishing some writeups and a tester set of hardware to send off to Lucifer so he can add in interfacing capabilities with the hardware. Having more then 8 months complete testing time on my beta setup I can definately confirm how well it works.


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## Doer (Jul 12, 2011)

Yes, I looked at that approch. Prices seem about the same. Are you keeping a journal. I'd like to share results, when I get some. It would be useful
for me to see what you find are the important points to consider in the design phase.


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## Kervork (May 23, 2012)

I'm evaluating a material right now which dynamically adjusts PH in the resivoir. You dump it in and supposedly it maintains pH at around 5.8 even though you add nutrients, water etc. So far it seems to work just fine.
Unfortunately it won't be available for the rest of the world for a few months.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/528092-closet-grower.html


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## jamers (Jul 30, 2012)

fatman7574 said:


> Earl is a dumb ass. His write up just really just tells you how to adjust your pH. Silica phospahte will not do anything to buffer your pH. It is not meant as a pH up either. It is mearley a supplement. Silicate is merely a supplement. As it contains a hydroxide it will *temporarily* raise the pH. The small amount of potassium carbonate in thee pH up solutions is only meant to buffer as much as was needed to neutralize the amount of acid that orginally dropped your pH. So if your pH drooped in one Dya it will only buffer for one day. If you want proper buffering add more magnesium and calcium. That will form into magnesium calcium carbonate. It is a very good buffer. It is used in almost every nutrient formulation, however usually in amounts that are insufficient.


Fatman, im looking for some help with buffering my solution
Currently Iam usign 100% RO water
When mixing this is my process perhaps you can suggest what i can do to improve the length of tiem my solutions remains ph stable

1) PH up with potassium silicate to 8.3 
2) Mix Cal Mag at 5ml/gallon
3) Let sit for an hour or two
4) Add Nutrients to bring EC up to desired levels in this case EC 2000
5) This usally drops my ph back down to about 5.4-5.6
6) Let sit for a couple hours and the ph settles out at 5.8 

Usually this is good for about a week to a week and half without much adjustment 
Any suggestions ?


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## BUdbuddysmile (Jul 30, 2012)

intlplayn said:


> I know I know, this is an old thread but come on, i've never seen this info anywhere before. Dude, are you serious? I've never heard that before, that would be so awesome! I've been manually checking them on 3 diff rez's everyday an its becoming a pain in the u know what!
> 
> Where do I get those products u mention? ie:
> &#8226;Phosphoric acid
> ...


If your using AN you don't need to add any of this because it it buffered. Even the old formula is very pH stable. It zones into about 6.3 every time, so its perfect for soil with no adjustment. The new pH perfect zones into 5.7 and holds quite well for like 3-5 days before adjustment is needed. These extra added buffers would work well for a nutrient that is not very stable, at least I think&#8230; Ive only used pH up and Down solutions, but I guess it would make sense.


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## insan3 (Sep 30, 2012)

Sorry to bring up an old thread but i am looking into buying a unit or doing a diy for a ph adjuster. Anyone know of a unit or a diy for this ? Post # 13 has great info but i would take a long time to find those deals.


Found the info.


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## haole420 (Oct 1, 2012)

Earl said:


> It is not necessary to adjust the pH
> if you have your solution properly buffered.
> 
> I can go for weeks without any adjustment,
> ...


potassium silicate is basically what's in rhino and other silicate boosters.

how does it function with regard to buffering pH?

what about pot carb and pot hydrox? can you explain the mech for buffering? a link perhaps?

thanks


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## GreenThumbSucker (Oct 1, 2012)

haole420 said:


> potassium silicate is basically what's in rhino and other silicate boosters.
> 
> how does it function with regard to buffering pH?
> 
> ...


Potassium silicate will raise the PH, but not provide any buffers. It does provide some silica, which has shown to be beneficial. To make a strong buffer, you want to get some potassium bicarbonate, which you can get at any beer/wine making shop. You can also get it on ebay cheaply. This is what commercial hydroponic greenhouses use for PH buffering.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Potassium-Bicarbonate-1-lb-/350574358104?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519fdc2e58

To make a gallon of 13% potassium bicarbonate PH UP/Buffer mix 453 grams (1 lb) of potassium bicarbonate with one gallon of RO or distilled water. This will cost you about $7 and a gallon will last you a loooong time. 

Potassium bicarbonate and potassium hydroxide are the main ingredients in PH up. They put a tiny amount of potassium bicarbonate in to say that it is buffered, but in such a small amount that it does not buffer for longer than a day or two. They do not make money if you do not keep consuming the product. 

Potassium bicarbonate by itself is a fairly weak buffer. It must bind with calcium and magnesium to form strong, long lasting buffers in your solution. You want to add extra calcium and magnesium to your solution to assure that there is enough left for your plants to use after buffering. In short you must use a calcium/magnesium supplement with your calcium bicarbonate. 

The combination of cal-mag and potassium bicarbonate will give you rock solid PH for a week or longer at a time. I strongly suspect that this is the "secret" to AN PH Perfect fertilizer. This would explain 'Big Mike's' rant against carbonate buffers, which are the industry standard. He does not want you to use them, because if you figure out how to do it yourself for a few cents a week, he cant charge you double for his "Ph Perfect" fertilizer line, thus he makes no money off you. He has Rolls Royce payments to keep up with, doncha know.

When using as a buffer, after setting the PPM of your solution to the desired level, add cal-mag at about 80 PPM for flowering, 20 - 40 ppm for vegetative. When everything is mixed, circulated and settled, add the 13% potassium bicarbonate solution in small amounts until you reach the desired PH. Calcium bicarbonate is a very strong base, thus a very small amount will go a long way. Err on the side of caution until you are know exactly how much you need to add. Keep track of how much you added for future reference.

I only adjust my PH once a week, on the day I change out my reservoir. 

I can give a recipe for making the cal-mag supplement yourself if you want. It is very cheap to make, about $1 per gallon, but you have to order the chemicals online from crop king or jr peters.

You can order potassium bicarbonate already mixed with the magnesium sulfate (epsom salts) for stablizing PH from JR peters, but it will buffer longer and be a lot cheaper if you do it yourself.

Hope that helps.


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## Lbchsdigity (Oct 23, 2012)

kushRx said:


> man if checkin and fixin your ph is such a hassel then why grow? is everything thing else going to be lackin attention? lol


Seriously! 

Cmon people, check your PH levels daily it takes a few mins, keep your res' covered and solution mixing and aerated and your PH should not need too much attention between res changes. 

It is also a good reason to be in your garden doing ALL the other maint required.  My Opinion


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## glacierdigital (Oct 31, 2013)

I've used JR Peters stuff a few times and have been really lucky.


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