# Do you believe in God?



## tortie (Jul 24, 2014)

Quick Poll!!


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## Jimmyjonestoo (Jul 24, 2014)

Nope


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## polo the don (Jul 24, 2014)

No, I'm too smart for that.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 24, 2014)

which god ? there is supposedly 1000s ?


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## dashcues (Jul 24, 2014)

Yep.


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## mr.schroederific (Jul 24, 2014)

Have you seen my clone machine? I am god, ask my plants


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## Da Mann (Jul 24, 2014)

I try to.


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## ULEN (Jul 24, 2014)

Evil is real and so is Satan, So yes is my answer. If Satan isn't real, I suggest you try to invoke it or call on a beast of choice. Beelzebub for starters. What do you got to lose?


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## Diabolical666 (Jul 24, 2014)

I only pray to the cannabis gods...or is that my doing too...doh


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## Nevaeh420 (Jul 24, 2014)

So far, I am the only person that voted "maybe".

I guess that there are a lot of gnostics here.

I'm an Agnostic Theist.

~PEACE~


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## dashcues (Jul 25, 2014)

Nevaeh420 said:


> So far, I am the only person that voted "maybe".
> 
> I guess that there are a lot of gnostics here.
> 
> ...


Not a gnostic."Believe" is the key.


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## sub-zero234 (Jul 25, 2014)

damn this is sad...I will pray for all of you...may all of you find jesus Christ, our lord and saviour


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## sub-zero234 (Jul 25, 2014)

and for the ones that say their god or even actually believe that?.....damn I feel bad for ya


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## sub-zero234 (Jul 25, 2014)

ULEN said:


> Evil is real and so is Satan, So yes is my answer. If Satan isn't real, I suggest you try to invoke it or call on a beast of choice. Beelzebub for starters. What do you got to lose?


hell yes satan is real...don't mess with that shit..it is DANGEROUS....


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## dannyboy602 (Jul 25, 2014)

sub-zero234 said:


> damn this is sad...I will pray for all of you...may all of you find jesus Christ, our lord and saviour


Finally. A believer. In a sea of disbelief. Lets be friends.


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## Pinworm (Jul 25, 2014)

If you're happy and you know it


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## thepenofareadywriter (Jul 25, 2014)

according to mans idea of god... no there is no such deity...god is the wrong word to use...BUT I DO BELIEVE IN ...LOVE


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## mainliner (Jul 25, 2014)

tortie said:


> Quick Poll!!


 no he's a big fat lier


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## sub-zero234 (Jul 25, 2014)

dannyboy602 said:


> Finally. A believer. In a sea of disbelief. Lets be friends.


dannyboy602...yes..we can be friends.....along with god and his everlasting son jesus Christ..who are the greatest ever!!!!!!


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## sub-zero234 (Jul 25, 2014)

Pinworm said:


> If you're happy and you know it


god and jesus love you pinworm..come to sub-zero... pinworm...come to the light of jesus christ


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## dannyboy602 (Jul 25, 2014)

I love my job


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## sub-zero234 (Jul 25, 2014)

WTF IS THAT?


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## sub-zero234 (Jul 25, 2014)

IF YOU DONT BELIEVE IN GOD AND JESUS .....YOUR FUCKED..................


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## Nevaeh420 (Jul 26, 2014)

sub-zero234 said:


> IF YOU DONT BELIEVE IN GOD AND JESUS .....YOUR FUCKED..................


Why is that?

God and Jesus are not proven by science; so why should we believe in God and Jesus?

~PEACE~


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## DemonTrich (Jul 26, 2014)

believing in JC is a ploy in order to keep people alive and give them hope when everyone was getting stoned and killed, impoverished 2000+yrs ago. even now, it gives people something to live for and to feel better about themselves even in this day and age. with out hope and religion, this world would crumble in Anarchy as people wouldn't know what to do with themselves. I knew from a very young age that I didn't believe in God. I even went to vacation bible school for years and my daycare was at a church when I was a little tike. I believe in the scientific aspect of things. JC been around for what 2014 years (+/-). ok, who made the damn dinosaurs, who made the planets, who make the fossils that have been carbon dated (PROOF!!!!) from 1.5 MILLION years ago. there is NO proof of JC 1.5 million yrs ago. show me a fossil of his and ill believe.

I now have a 7mo old boy. I WILL have him baptized (as was I and his mom(who believes in god)), and I will let my son make up his own mind about God. its his choice, and no one elses.


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## JSJ (Jul 26, 2014)

DemonTrich said:


> believing in JC is a ploy in order to keep people alive and give them hope when everyone was getting stoned and killed, impoverished 2000+yrs ago. even now, it gives people something to live for and to feel better about themselves even in this day and age. with out hope and religion, this world would crumble in Anarchy as people wouldn't know what to do with themselves. I knew from a very young age that I didn't believe in God. I even went to vacation bible school for years and my daycare was at a church when I was a little tike. I believe in the scientific aspect of things. JC been around for what 2014 years (+/-). ok, who made the damn dinosaurs, who made the planets, who make the fossils that have been carbon dated (PROOF!!!!) from 1.5 MILLION years ago. there is NO proof of JC 1.5 million yrs ago. show me a fossil of his and ill believe.
> 
> I now have a 7mo old boy. I WILL have him baptized (as was I and his mom(who believes in god)), and I will let my son make up his own mind about God. its his choice, and no one elses.


That's a sad attempt to disprove God, seriously no offense.

There is no scientific proof that God didn't create the universe, earth, dinosaurs and you and your son.

Why would you even baptize your son if you are such a non believer??


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## sub-zero234 (Jul 26, 2014)

QUESTION...who is the greatest man to ever live? ANSWER.....JESUS CHRIST !!!


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## sub-zero234 (Jul 26, 2014)

so your telling me you don't believe in miracles?.....look at the trees, look at the grass, look at the birds, pay attention to thunderstorms and tornados...who the heck do you think created us?...answer..GOD


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## sub-zero234 (Jul 26, 2014)

when jesus Christ was placed in his tomb he rose on the third day ..his father perfected him and he ascended into heaven to sit at the fathers right side......where do you come up with a fossil?..thats the dumbest thing I have ever heard of...if he ascended into heaven as a immortal that's it...


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 27, 2014)

still no one has stated wich god they believe in


sub-zero234 said:


> so your telling me you don't believe in miracles?.....look at the trees, look at the grass, look at the birds, pay attention to thunderstorms and tornados...who the heck do you think created us?...answer..GOD


 firstly what makes you think it has to be a 'who' ? secondly you cant prove anything you have said ,so you are talking absolute rubbish .
you may aswell be talking about the tooth fairy , it has about as much credibility as your god .


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## fatburt (Jul 27, 2014)

doesnt matter if he exists or not,more humans have been killed by humans in his name than anything else in history.....


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## fatburt (Jul 27, 2014)

jesus was just a very good kind man,maybe a lil crazy.......
i dont know how any logical person can believe in god.....every culture has a different god.....are they all wrong and christians are right?

i do believe in living a christian lifestyle....


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 27, 2014)

if these guys were born on a different peace of land , for example somewhere in thee middle east they would be shouting about allah lol


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## Doer (Jul 29, 2014)

ULEN said:


> Evil is real and so is Satan, So yes is my answer. If Satan isn't real, I suggest you try to invoke it or call on a beast of choice. Beelzebub for starters. What do you got to lose?


Satan is not real. People can be quite evil all on their own.


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## Doer (Jul 29, 2014)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> if these guys were born on a different peace of land , for example somewhere in thee middle east they would be shouting about allah lol


Really if you look hard and don't just believe in scripture, you can trace all the North Hemi Religions back to China and Lau Tsu.

To me, every single religion on earth is just retelling and embellishing the same stories about life on earth. Lau Tsu had it that we are all connect to nature through the Way, the Tao he called it. Every religion is based on that idea with some various Culture Fiction thrown in.

Each day we re-incarnate with new chances (karma) and new challenges (karma) that we bring over from yesterday, not some past life.

There is a life everlasting....you have it, until you don't.


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## chuck estevez (Jul 29, 2014)

dannyboy602 said:


> Finally. A believer. In a sea of disbelief. Lets be friends.


I would be your friend, and I don't even care that you believe in JC and god.


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## Da Mann (Jul 29, 2014)

sub-zero234 said:


> IF YOU DONT BELIEVE IN GOD AND JESUS .....YOUR FUCKED..................


Nice language for a fine Christian such as yourself.


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## Doer (Jul 29, 2014)

But, the believers are so fragile they can only be friends with other believers.


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## Doer (Jul 29, 2014)

sub-zero234 said:


> IF YOU DONT BELIEVE IN GOD AND JESUS .....YOUR FUCKED..................


Says who? Your Church? Some book that was put together by one guy for the Emperor Constantine?

Do you know about Roman Senator Pizo and his suppiort for Herod? Do you know about his plot that backfired to protect the Jews from John the Baptist's crazy people.

Do you know that Peter believed, so totally in Apocalypse, that there should be no more children at all? And that is why the Romans killed him?

There is no direct Knowledge of Self offered in any of there religions though they all mention that.

All religions still say, "Know Self" in some way or another, but they know not what they speak.

Did you know that every single religion on earth or ever on Earth was and is a War Cult preying on supersitition?


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## chuck estevez (Jul 29, 2014)

can you believers answer 1 question for me?
how come in all these pictures https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1600&bih=799&q=adam+and+eve&oq=adam+and+eve&gs_l=img.12..0l10.1721.4200.0.5905.12.8.0.4.4.0.92.570.8.8.0....0...1ac.1.49.img..0.12.585.PnzCVFiCV1I

eve has a belly button?


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## dannyboy602 (Jul 29, 2014)

I


chuck estevez said:


> I would be your friend, and I don't even care that you believe in JC and god.


 I need all the friends I can get Chuck.


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## Doer (Jul 29, 2014)

I toss out so called "friends" every day.


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## abalonehx (Aug 1, 2014)

Im glad to see most people rely on some sort of evidence for belief....fuk why not?


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## mainliner (Aug 3, 2014)

if hes anything like my dad who says dinners ready in 10 mins , i don't belive a word he says


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## playallnite (Aug 3, 2014)

Faith is the suspension of critical thinking.


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## Iloveskywalkerog (Aug 9, 2014)

Why would anyone who smokes herb not believe in god it's like biting the hand that feeds you


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## tyler.durden (Aug 10, 2014)




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## LeafGnosis (Aug 12, 2014)

Well, If you are truly interested, there are two places to go.. I would recommend the first being "conversations with God" a PDF you can download and read.. the second being look toward Bashar. We are all GOD as GOD is us... I do not use the term God, but "All That Is"! And Bashar even says that Cannabis is a high vibrational thing!


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## SmokeyDan (Aug 12, 2014)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Why is that?
> 
> God and Jesus are not proven by science; so why should we believe in God and Jesus?
> 
> ~PEACE~


God could never be proven by science.

If you look at how the universe was created, the big bang, it is a god like way of making it. Humans build things step by step. Science tells us that the universe went from nothing (no time, matter, energy, space, none of that of anything else to the universe in less than one second.

Science tells is how. Religion tells us why.

I'm not saying Christianity has it right. I'm not saying that any human religion has it right.

But their has to be something. 

So the question was believe, I said no because believe has doubt, and to me there is no doubt. 

I believe the mail will run tomorrow. 

I do not believe I will fall if I jump off of the house, I know. 

If you're looking for proof in science, you're looking at the wrong place..

Read the Bible or Koran and pray. One does not need to believe to pray. Read it earnestly and with thought, and ask for God to show you. 

He just might.


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## thepenofareadywriter (Aug 12, 2014)

once I retire in a couple years I am going to setup my pay pal account.... for all the believers who are not paying their 10% tithe and their love offering unto god I will just call the account... gods money...just remember god loves a cheerful giver and jesus said give to him that ask...so the day is coming that I will be asking to receive your money and don't forget the bigger the $eed the bigger your blessing... and do not forget there will be hell to pay for those who do not obey and that fire gets very hot!


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## Mr. Bongwater (Aug 20, 2014)

just because u pray for something like money doesn't mean its gonna come just like that, god works in a mysterious ways, first off u may be really poor and see no way out and only then will u find out something about yourself and employment comes your way

im not particularly religious but i got an open mind


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## IRON-EYES (Aug 20, 2014)

yes actually I do believe


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## Silky Shagsalot (Aug 20, 2014)

DemonTrich said:


> believing in JC is a ploy in order to keep people alive and give them hope when everyone was getting stoned and killed, impoverished 2000+yrs ago. even now, it gives people something to live for and to feel better about themselves even in this day and age. with out hope and religion, this world would crumble in Anarchy as people wouldn't know what to do with themselves. I knew from a very young age that I didn't believe in God. I even went to vacation bible school for years and my daycare was at a church when I was a little tike. I believe in the scientific aspect of things. JC been around for what 2014 years (+/-). ok, who made the damn dinosaurs, who made the planets, who make the fossils that have been carbon dated (PROOF!!!!) from 1.5 MILLION years ago. there is NO proof of JC 1.5 million yrs ago. show me a fossil of his and ill believe. I now have a 7mo old boy. I WILL have him baptized (as was I and his mom(who believes in god)), and I will let my son make up his own mind about God. its his choice, and no one elses.


ahh, so many things. you believe in science, and carbon dating??? carbon dating, lol??? not even a good argument...


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## DemonTrich (Aug 21, 2014)

yes, carbon dating. PROVEN scientific results. not some words written in a book from someone back in the day in 110* heat in the desert. who made the dinosaurs? what God decided, hey, why not make some HUGE ass reptiles to roam the planet for a few hundred thousand years. sorry, im not buying it at all.


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## IRON-EYES (Aug 21, 2014)

*Matthew 6:9-13New International Version (NIV)*
9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,[a]
but deliver us from the evil one.[b]’


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## mainliner (Aug 21, 2014)

God is love-- love is a true thought of pure bliss and understanding ---absolutely void of evil-- the only way we can set the love free is to eradicate the evil thoughts, as there's no room for evil thoughts when love is the truth,,,

or im not quite sure about this one but i think George has something to do with it?? Lol


naaa ha ha , life is a dream,
find out who's dream it is and you'll have your god?


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## IRON-EYES (Aug 21, 2014)

mainliner said:


> God is love-- love is a true thought of pure bliss and understanding ---absolutely void of evil-- the only way we can set the love free is to eradicate the evil thoughts, as there's no room for evil thoughts when love is the truth,,,
> 
> or im not quite sure about this one but i think George has something to do with it?? Lol
> 
> ...


Somebody's high but I dig it


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## SmokeyDan (Aug 21, 2014)

God is love (of fiction)


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## Sinsay (Aug 22, 2014)




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## Pickett420247365 (Aug 23, 2014)

no i believe in aliens though which i also believe humans mistake for god(s)


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## callitgood (Oct 16, 2014)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Why is that?
> 
> God and Jesus are not proven by science; so why should we believe in God and Jesus?
> 
> ~PEACE~


Neither is evolution, so where does that leave us?


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## tyler.durden (Oct 16, 2014)

World's leading zoologist/biologist speaks to aid layman comprehension -


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## tyler.durden (Oct 17, 2014)




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## abe supercro (Oct 17, 2014)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Why is that?
> 
> God and Jesus are not proven by science; so why should we believe in God and Jesus?
> 
> ~PEACE~


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## DemonTrich (Oct 17, 2014)

callitgood said:


> Neither is evolution, so where does that leave us?



evolution HAS been proven, but discounted by everyone who believes in God and Jesus.


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## callitgood (Oct 17, 2014)

DemonTrich said:


> evolution HAS been proven, but discounted by everyone who believes in God and Jesus.


Evolution has never been proven, in fact, DNA destroys Darwin's theory.
But most atheists won't except it.


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## DemonTrich (Oct 17, 2014)

carbon dating trumps dna testing 

dna testing could only go back what 2014 years. carbon dating goes back 650 MILLION years.


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## callitgood (Oct 17, 2014)

DemonTrich said:


> carbon dating trumps dna testing
> 
> dna testing could only go back what 2014 years. carbon dating goes back 650 MILLION years.


Carbon dating is used for dating artifacts of a biological origin.
DNA is used for genetic profiling, two different sciences.


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## DemonTrich (Oct 17, 2014)

ok then show me proof (dna) of god/jesus. I can carbon dating proof 650 million years back.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 17, 2014)

callitgood said:


> Evolution has never been proven, in fact, DNA destroys Darwin's theory.
> But most atheists won't except it.


Evolution as been proven through not one, but many separate scientific fields (see Dawkins video) in post #62, and is as much a fact as anything known to man. The term theory in science is much different than is used in the layman's vernacular. Theory is the highest form of scientific knowledge, made up of many physical laws and facts, i.e. gravitational theory, electronic theory, etc. These bodies of knowledge are used to land rovers on Mars 34 million miles away within a 3 meter accuracy, and used to create every electronic device in existence (including the PCs on which we type and read the thoughts presented here). These accomplishments are not based on mere guesses and speculation, but rather on the concrete nature of objective reality...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theory
: an idea that is suggested or presented as possibly true but that is not known or proven to be true - Layman's definition

*:* the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art <music _theory_>
*:* a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject <_theory_ of equations>
Scientific definitions

It is important not to conflate the two definitions...

In the same video above, Professor Dawkins shows us that DNA supports evolution in a very major way. If you have links to credible, peer-reviewed sources (no creationist/christian videos or bias creationist websites, please) that state otherwise, I'd be happy to take a look...


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 18, 2014)

> Do you believe in God?


Of course not


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## callitgood (Oct 18, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> Evolution as been proven through not one, but many separate scientific fields (see Dawkins video) in post #62, and is as much a fact as anything known to man. The term theory in science is much different than is used in the layman's vernacular. Theory is the highest form of scientific knowledge, made up of many physical laws and facts, i.e. gravitational theory, electronic theory, etc. These bodies of knowledge are used to land rovers on Mars 34 million miles away within a 3 meter accuracy, and used to create every electronic device in existence (including the PCs on which we type and read the thoughts presented here). These accomplishments are not based on mere guesses and speculation, but rather on the concrete nature of objective reality...
> 
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theory
> : an idea that is suggested or presented as possibly true but that is not known or proven to be true - Layman's definition
> ...


All you have is opinion supporting evolution, that is it.
I could cite many links to scientists who disagree, who in fact support the theory that DNA disproves Darwinism.

Here is a link to documentary with five professors/scientists who believe Darwins theory is impossible.
go to 21:59 of the video.
Professor Dawkins was asked the question "can you give an example of genetic mutation which can be seen to increase the information in a genome" he is stumped, why, because there is no example.


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## Milovan (Oct 18, 2014)

Iloveskywalkerog said:


> Why would anyone who smokes herb not believe in god it's like biting the hand that feeds you


The Last Supper was really "The Last Session" and Jesus rose on the 
7th day and took the first "wake & bake".


slipknot


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 18, 2014)

callitgood said:


> All you have is opinion supporting evolution, that is it.
> I could cite many links to scientists who disagree, who in fact support the theory that DNA disproves Darwinism.
> 
> Here is a link to documentary with five professors/scientists who believe Darwins theory is impossible.
> ...


There are dozens of different disciplines that all *independently *confirm the theory of evolution

One of my favorite examples comes from Neil Shubin's exploration of the Canadian arctic and his teams discovery of the transitional species _tiktaalik _he details in his book _Your Inner Fish: A Journey Into the 3.5-Billion-Year History of the Human Body_

"Let's now return to our problem of how to find relatives of the first fish to walk on land. In our grouping scheme, these creatures are somewhere between the "Everythings" and the "Everythings with limbs." Map this to what we know of the rocks, and there is strong *geological* evidence that the period from 380 million to 365 million years ago is the critical time. The younger rocks in that range, those about 360 million years old, include diverse kinds of fossilized animals that we would all recognize as amphibians or reptiles. My colleague Jenny Clack at Cambridge University and others have uncovered amphibians from rocks in Greenland that are about 365 million years old. With their necks, their ears, and their four legs, they do not look like fish. But in the rocks that are about 385 million years old, we find whole fish that look like, well, fish. They have fins, conical heads, and scales; and they have no necks. *Given this, it is probably no great surprise that we should focus on rocks about 375 million years old to find evidence of the transition between fish and land-living animals.*"

"On the basis of previous discoveries made in slightly younger rocks, we believed that ancient freshwater streams were the best environment in which to begin our hunt."..."First, there is the east coast of Greenland. This is home to Jenny Clack's fossil, a very early creature with limbs and one of the earliest known tetrapods. Then there is eastern North America, where we had already worked, home to _Hynerpeton_. And there is a third area, large and running east-west across the Canadian Arctic. There are no trees, dirt or cities in the Arctic. The chances were good that rocks of the right age and type would be extremely well exposed."

"*It took us six years to find it, but this fossil confirmed a prediction of paleontology: not only was the new fish an intermediate between two different kinds of animal, but we had found it also in the right time period in earth's history and in the right ancient environment."*


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## callitgood (Oct 18, 2014)

Milovan said:


> The Last Supper was really "The Last Session" and Jesus rose on the
> 7th day and took the first "wake & bake".
> 
> View attachment 3276041
> slipknot


I'm not much of a bible beliver


Padawanbater2 said:


> There are dozens of different disciplines that all *independently *confirm the theory of evolution
> 
> One of my favorite examples comes from Neil Shubin's exploration of the Canadian arctic and his teams discovery of the transitional species _tiktaalik _he details in his book _Your Inner Fish: A Journey Into the 3.5-Billion-Year History of the Human Body_
> 
> ...


LOL

then you'll love this video, scientists have already disproved Tiktaalik, they even laugh about the theory.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 18, 2014)

callitgood said:


> All you have is opinion supporting evolution, that is it.
> I could cite many links to scientists who disagree, who in fact support the theory that DNA disproves Darwinism.


You clearly do not follow or understand science. I'm guessing you are a creationist or christian? I'm sure if you really tried, you could find some non-credible, fringe scientists that deny gravity, as well. That doesn't make it so. But please post these links to disagreeing scientists so we can bring them out into the light to see where they fall short...



> Here is a link to documentary with five professors/scientists who believe Darwins theory is impossible.
> go to 21:59 of the video.
> Professor Dawkins was asked the question "can you give an example of genetic mutation which can be seen to increase the information in a genome" he is stumped, why, because there is no example.


You forgot the link to your video, please repost it so that I can retort...


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## callitgood (Oct 18, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> You clearly do not follow or understand science. I'm guessing you are a creationist or christian? I'm sure if you really tried, you could find some non-credible, fringe scientists that deny gravity, as well. That doesn't make it so. But please post these links to disagreeing scientists so we can bring them out into the light to see where they fall short...
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot the link to your video, please repost it so that I can retort...


Well you are wrong on all points.
I'm not a bible believer, I do follow science and everything I cite, like you and those who believe in evolution, is backed by science.

To call scientists who do not agree with evolution, fringe, demonstrates your own close-mindedness.


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## Commander Strax (Oct 18, 2014)

the heathens are winning


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 18, 2014)

callitgood said:


> I'm not much of a bible beliver
> 
> 
> LOL
> ...


Scientists or two creationists responding to a clip about a debate about evolution?

Pretty substantial difference there, bud.. 

The theory of evolution is one of the most widely accepted scientific theories in all of science and has more than 150 years of evidence to support it. Something like 99.8% of all biologists accept it as fact

How do you explain how all living things share DNA based on how closely related organisms are?

How do you explain how all life forms on Earth are carbon based?

How do you explain vestigial appendages and organs?

How do you explain why chickens have the genetic code to make teeth, but have no teeth?

How do you explain why whales and dolphins swim vertically (like mammals run on land) but all fish swim horizontally? 

How do you explain Darwin's famous finch observations?

How do you explain the fact that there's never been a single instance of an older, less complex organism being above a younger, more complex organism in the different layers of strata?

How do you explain the power of prediction, like the example I cited earlier with _tiktaalik_? Scientists knew where to look, what to look for and in what age rocks they would likely find the animal in, and they did. How do you explain that?

None of these observations make any sense without the theory of evolution

If you don't accept the theory of evolution, what is your explanation for the diversity of life on Earth?


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## callitgood (Oct 18, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Scientists or two creationists responding to a clip about a debate about evolution?
> 
> Pretty substantial difference there, bud..
> 
> ...


"Scientists or two creationists responding to a clip about a debate about evolution?

Pretty substantial difference there, bud.."
Yet you supply one. LOL

I don't except evolution or the orthodox theory of "creation"
Everything you've asked me to explain, you can't explain yourself and neither can scientists.
All I am saying is, evolution is not proven, and that is a fact.
To this day there is no evidence of any kind of missing link, in fact, it is proven that humans cannot reproduce with primates, yet Darwins theory says we descended from them.
And the fact that any attempt by the DNA to change is stopped and reversed because the replication contains built-in error checking. Kind of hard to claim a horse came from a fish when their dna structure makes it impossible.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 18, 2014)

callitgood said:


> Well you are wrong on all points.
> I'm not a bible believer, I do follow science and everything I cite, like you and those who believe in evolution, is backed by science.
> 
> To call scientists who do not agree with evolution, fringe, demonstrates your own close-mindedness.


You are not a bible believer, but your video is from answersingenesis, a completely bias christian site infamous for mis-information. You follow science, but cannot even source your material for validity. Right. Science is based on peer review, are you familiar with the process? If you were, you wouldn't use creationist websites as sources. What I will do tonight is go through your video, look up the 'experts' that are citing this misinformation, do a few minutes of research on each, and show you how each is a fraud or laughing stock in the scientific community. Unless you'd like to do this before I get to it. Stay tuned...


----------



## tyler.durden (Oct 18, 2014)

callitgood said:


> "Scientists or two creationists responding to a clip about a debate about evolution?
> 
> Pretty substantial difference there, bud.."
> Yet you supply one. LOL
> ...


Everything you are saying demonstrates that you do not understand evolution by natural selection, and your misinformation is gained from creationist websites. To demonstrate, why don't you give us a brief explanation of evolution in your own words. You can't effectively debate a theory that you do not understand. We've had this party on this sub-forum dozens of times before. It may be your first time, but it is not ours...


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 18, 2014)

callitgood said:


> I don't except evolution or the orthodox theory of "creation"


Yeah, I already know that. I asked you what you *do* accept as the explanation for the diversity of life on Earth? Do you simply think nobody knows?



callitgood said:


> Everything you've asked me to explain, you can't explain yourself and neither can scientists.


The theory of evolution explains everything I just asked you to explain, without it there is no explanation



> 1. How do you explain how all living things share DNA based on how closely related organisms are?
> 2. How do you explain how all life forms on Earth are carbon based?
> 3. How do you explain vestigial appendages and organs?
> 4. How do you explain why chickens have the genetic code to make teeth, but have no teeth?
> ...


1. All living thing share DNA based on how closely related organisms are because every living thing shares a common ancestor. If the theory of evolution were false, there would be organisms with _different _genetic codes or organisms who _don't _share DNA

2. All life forms on Earth are carbon based because all life on Earth shares a common ancestor. Again, if the theory of evolution were false, there would be living organisms on Earth based on other chemical elements

3. Vestigial appendages and organs exist because they are remnants of earlier species transitions into new species. Vestigial leg bones on whales whose ancestor ran on land, vestigial ear muscles on humans whose ancestor required them for survival from predators

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vestigiality

4. Chickens have the genetic code to make teeth but don't have any teeth because their ancestor _did_ have teeth

5. Whales and dolphins swim vertically because their ancestors ran on land

6. Finch from different Islands in the Galapagos all came from the same finch, but over time and isolation from it's parent species, they evolved into completely new species of finch that could no longer reproduce with the original finch. Macroevolution right in front of your eyes, in 1832.. The same thing happened with a species of salamander in California

7. There's never been an older fossil discovered above a younger fossil because as time progresses, new layers are created by the environment, also as time progresses, complexity in organisms increases

8. The power of prediction cannot be explained _without_ using the theory of evolution. This is one of the strongest aspects of the theory that validates it



callitgood said:


> All I am saying is, evolution is not proven, and that is a fact.


The finch's in the Galapagos are an example of evolution; 1 species evolving into a completely new species, this is a fact



callitgood said:


> To this day there is no evidence of any kind of missing link, in fact, it is proven that humans cannot reproduce with primates, yet Darwins theory says we descended from them.


Every species that has ever existed, including you and me, is a transitional species (missing link)

The earlier species of primate that man evolved from is a completely different species than modern homosapiens. Two different species can't reproduce with each other, completely consistent with what the theory of evolution states



callitgood said:


> And the fact that any attempt by the DNA to change is stopped and reversed because the replication contains built-in error checking. Kind of hard to claim a horse came from a fish when their dna structure makes it impossible.


This is an elementary level understanding of the theory of evolution. 

Horses don't "come from fish", horses and fish and humans and bats and trees and plants and anything that is living on this planet *all share a common ancestor*. 

I'm not sure where you learned about evolution, or didn't, but you have a deep misunderstanding of what it actually is and how it works. You probably don't accept it because your understanding of it doesn't make any sense. I don't accept your version of evolution either because it's obviously not true. But if you take the time to actually read what it is and how it works, you will probably have a much better understanding of it and likely accept it. Like I said, there aren't many other theories in science that are as strong as the theory of evolution. It's the foundation of biology.


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## callitgood (Oct 18, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> You are not a bible believer, but your video is from answersingenesis, a completely bias christian site infamous for mis-information. You follow science, but cannot even source your material for validity. Right. Science is based on peer review, are you familiar with the process? If you were, you wouldn't use creationist websites as sources. What I will do tonight is go through your video, look up the 'experts' that are citing this misinformation, do a few minutes of research on each, and show you how each is a fraud or laughing stock in the scientific community. Unless you'd like to do this before I get to it. Stay tuned...


Science is not based on peer review and consensus my friend.
Science is based on objective observation, evidence, experimentation and observation for testing hypotheses.
Peer review is simply exposure to scrutiny and possibly verification, something that is almost meaningless in todays political world.

Because you think some scientists are christian biased, should I discredit all of your citations coming from atheists?


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## callitgood (Oct 18, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Yeah, I already know that. I asked you what you *do* accept as the explanation for the diversity of life on Earth? Do you simply think nobody knows?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL Horses don't come from fish, but they have the same ancestors? 

I'll take that as you have no clue what you are trying to regurgitate.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 18, 2014)

callitgood said:


> LOL Horses don't come from fish, but they have the same ancestors?
> 
> I'll take that as you have no clue what you are trying to regurgitate.


Every living organism on Earth has a common ancestor


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## callitgood (Oct 18, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Y
> 
> The finch's in the Galapagos are an example of evolution; 1 species evolving into a completely new species, this is a fact


Wow, the finches of the Galapagos turned into, finches! LOL


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 18, 2014)

callitgood said:


> Wow, the finches of the Galapagos turned into, finches! LOL















Both different species of *feline*













Both different species of *bird*













Both different species of *canine *

*




*

*




*

Different species of finch

All of these animals are closely related, yet cannot procreate with each other rendering them different species and proving the validity of macroevolution

Humans and chimpanzees, bonobos and gorillas are different species of primate, all closely related, yet can't procreate

Why do you so desperately want the theory of evolution to be false if you don't have any preconceived religious obstacles blocking your way to reason?


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## callitgood (Oct 18, 2014)

Look how the German Shepard changed in the last 40 years, Darwin must have been right, it's evolution. LOL


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## callitgood (Oct 18, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Both different species of *feline*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Posting images of different species and sub-species does no prove a thing, other than you post nice pics. lol
Fact is, Darwins finches are still finches, they can interbreed my friend, that's my point.
Thank you.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 18, 2014)

callitgood said:


> Look how the German Shepard changed in the last 40 years, Darwin must have been right, it's evolution. LOL


1915 v. 2014 







The German Shepherd Dog is also a breed that is routinely mentioned when people talk about ruined breeds; maybe because they used to be awesome. In Dogs of All Nations, the GSD is described as a medium-sized dog (25 kg /55 lb), this is a far cry from the angulated, barrel-chested, sloping back, ataxic, 85-pounders (38 kg) we are used to seeing in the conformation ring. There was a time when the GSD could clear a 2.5 meter (8.5 ft) wall; that time is long gone.







It seems incredible that at one time the Bull Terrier was a handsome, athletic dog. Somewhere along its journey to a mutated skull and thick abdomen the bull terrier also picked up a number of other maladies like supernumerary teeth and compulsive tail-chasing.







The Basset Hound has gotten lower, has suffered changes to its rear leg structure, has excessive skin, vertebra problems, droopy eyes prone to entropion and ectropion and excessively large ears.







A shorter face means a host of problems. The modern Boxer not only has a shorter face but the muzzle is slightly upturned. The boxer – like all bracecyphalic dogs – has difficulty controlling its temperature in hot weather, the inability to shed heat places limits on physical performance. It also has one of the highest cancer rates.







The English bulldog has come to symbolize all that is wrong with the dog fancy and not without good reason; they suffer from almost every possible disease. A 2004 survey by the Kennel Club found that they die at the median age of 6.25 years (n=180). There really is no such thing as a healthy bulldog. The bulldog’s monstrous proportions make them virtually incapable of mating or birthing without medical intervention.







The Dachshund used to have functional legs and necks that made sense for their size. Backs and necks have gotten longer, chest jutted forward and legs have shrunk to such proportions that there is barely any clearance between the chest and floor. The dachschund has the highest risk of any breed for intervertebral disc disease which can result in paralysis; they are also prone to achondroplastic related pathologies, PRA and problems with their legs.







The Pug is another extreme brachycephalic breed and it has all the problems associated with that trait – high blood pressure, heart problems, low oxygenation, difficulty breathing, tendency to overheat, dentition problems, and skin fold dermatitis. The highly desirable double-curl tail is actually a genetic defect, in more serious forms it leads to paralysis.







Once a noble working dog, the modern St. Bernard has been oversized, had it’s faced squished in, and bred for abundant skin. You will not see this type of dog working, they can’t handle it as they quickly overheat. The diseases include entropion, ectropion, Stockard’s paralysis, hemophilia, osteosarcoma, aphakia, fibrinogen deficiency.

http://dogbehaviorscience.wordpress.com/2012/09/29/100-years-of-breed-improvement/


Why do you so desperately want the theory of evolution to be false if you don't have any preconceived religious obstacles blocking your way to reason?


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 18, 2014)

callitgood said:


> Posting images of different species and sub-species does no prove a thing, other than you post nice pics. lol
> Fact is, Darwins finches are still finches, they can interbreed my friend, that's my point.
> Thank you.


Different species of finch cannot breed with each other

It seems your grasp on reproduction is almost as bad as your understanding of the theory of evolution


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## callitgood (Oct 18, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Why do you so desperately want the theory of evolution to be false if you don't have any preconceived religious obstacles blocking your way to reason?


Who said I want it to be wrong?
I just want the truth is all.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 18, 2014)

callitgood said:


> Who said I want it to be wrong?
> I just want the truth is all.


If you wanted to know the truth, you would actually study how it works

Or ask questions instead of make absurd proclamations and attempt to push them off as fact

You're being dishonest


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## callitgood (Oct 18, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Different species of finch cannot breed with each other
> 
> It seems your grasp on reproduction is almost as bad as your understanding of the theory of evolution


Is that your final answer, would you like to phone a friend?


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 18, 2014)

callitgood said:


> Is that your final answer, would you like to phone a friend?


You illustrate the ignorance of a creationist perfectly


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## callitgood (Oct 18, 2014)

"Galápagos finch species are capable of interbreeding -- but adds a new twist: they're interbreeding so much that in multiple cases, two "species" may be fusing back into one species."
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/03/nature_galapago083531.html


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## callitgood (Oct 18, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> You illustrate the ignorance of a creationist perfectly


Because I proved you wrong, you resort to name calling?


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 18, 2014)

callitgood said:


> Because I proved you wrong, you resort to name calling?


You haven't proved anything wrong

And it's a fact that you're ignorant about evolution

I'm done wasting time replying to you. Go ahead and believe your Mr. Garrison version of evolution is how it all actually works, don't pick up a book or anything


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## callitgood (Oct 18, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> You haven't proved anything wrong
> 
> And it's a fact that you're ignorant about evolution
> 
> I'm done wasting time replying to you. Go ahead and believe your Mr. Garrison version of evolution is how it all actually works, don't pick up a book or anything


Hey, no need to get pissed off, we just disagree on an issue.
But the fact is, you said Darwins finches cannot interbreed with other finches and that is blatantly incorrect., so calling me ignorant is a bit short of hilarious.
Have a nice day.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 18, 2014)

callitgood said:


> Hey, no need to get pissed off, we just disagree on an issue.
> But the fact is, you said Darwins finches cannot interbreed with other finches and that is blatantly incorrect., so calling me ignorant is a bit short of hilarious.
> Have a nice day.


No, I said different species of animal can't breed with other species

And science doesn't work that way. Science is *objective*, your opinion is _subjective_

The objective fact is evolution is demonstrably real, you're wrong.


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## callitgood (Oct 18, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> No, I said different species of animal can't breed with other species
> 
> And science doesn't work that way. Science is *objective*, your opinion is _subjective_
> 
> The objective fact is evolution is demonstrably real, you're wrong.





Padawanbater2 said:


> 6. Finch from different Islands in the Galapagos all came from the same finch, but over time and isolation from it's parent species, *they evolved into completely new species of finch that could no longer reproduce with the original finch.* Macroevolution right in front of your eyes, in 1832.. The same thing happened with a species of salamander in California
> 
> The finch's in the Galapagos are an example of evolution; 1 species evolving into a completely new species, this is a fact


Sure you said it, here's your post above.
And here is the proof I provided that refutes your "scientific" claim.

"Galápagos finch species are capable of interbreeding -- but adds a new twist: they're interbreeding so much that in multiple cases, two "species" may be fusing back into one species."
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/03/nature_galapago083531.html

Now, what else are you wrong about is the question.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 18, 2014)

callitgood said:


> Sure you said it, here's your post above.
> And here is the proof I provided that refutes your "scientific" claim.
> 
> "Galápagos finch species are capable of interbreeding -- but adds a new twist: they're interbreeding so much that in multiple cases, two "species" may be fusing back into one species."
> ...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

How exactly does that discredit the theory of evolution in any way?

There are still the 7 previous points made, you had no answer and claimed science didn't either. I showed you science does have the answer. Did you just forget about that or what?

If you did, here they are again; 



> 1. How do you explain how all living things share DNA based on how closely related organisms are?
> 2. How do you explain how all life forms on Earth are carbon based?
> 3. How do you explain vestigial appendages and organs?
> 4. How do you explain why chickens have the genetic code to make teeth, but have no teeth?
> ...


Here's a new one, why do humans have 46 chromosomes while the other higher apes have 48, and what is the significance of that? 


Are you going to just ignore this post and pretend it never happened again, or actually try to refute any of it?


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## callitgood (Oct 18, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
> 
> How exactly does that discredit the theory of evolution in any way?
> 
> ...


with all due respect, like me, you haven't shown a thing but scientific opinions.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 18, 2014)

callitgood said:


> with all due respect, like me, you haven't shown a thing but scientific opinions.


OK, lets go point by point then..

Why do all living organisms on Earth share the same DNA structure? 

Science says that organisms that share the same DNA structure are *related*. That's a scientific fact. 

Now what part do you think is opinion?

If I get 50% of my genetic material from my dad and the other 50% from my mom, you can scientifically verify that I am related to both of my parents. This exact same thing works for different species when looking for a common ancestor. For example, chimpanzees and bonobos share 99% of our DNA. How could you possibly say that we are not related? How else would they end up with nearly identical DNA? 

http://news.sciencemag.org/plants-animals/2012/06/bonobos-join-chimps-closest-human-relatives


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## callitgood (Oct 18, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> OK, lets go point by point then..
> 
> Why do all living organisms on Earth share the same DNA structure?
> 
> ...


All organisms possess dna structural material, the difference in their dna is the sequence of the base-pairs within the dna, but that does not prove their origin, just their existence.

You think you are arguing evolution with me but you are not, you are arguing the theory with other scientists, so good luck with that.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 18, 2014)

callitgood said:


> All organisms possess dna structural material, the difference in their dna is the sequence of the base-pairs within the dna, but that does not prove their origin, just their existence.
> 
> You think you are arguing evolution with me but you are not, you are arguing the theory with other scientists, so good luck with that.


It proves all life on earth is related. The fact that we share *more* DNA with organisms that are closely related to us supports this. For example, humans share more DNA with primates than with birds, reptiles and plants because our common ancestor was more recent on the time scale. That ancestor lived ~5-8 million years ago, the common ancestor we share with birds, reptiles and plants lived a lot longer ago than that, therefore we share less DNA, again, completely consistent with the theory of evolution

Moving on.. 

How do you explain why all life on earth is carbon based?

Because it can easily bond with oxygen, hydrogen and nitrogen to form complex molecules. Again, this is strong evidence that is consistent with the theory of evolution 

So what other scientists are you talking about?


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## loquacious (Oct 18, 2014)

Jesus gives amazing handjobs and god can suck a dick and he loves getting fucked in his ass! Fuck every stupid ass piece of shit who believes in any religion!


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## tyler.durden (Oct 19, 2014)

callitgood said:


> All you have is opinion supporting evolution, that is it.
> I could cite many links to scientists who disagree, who in fact support the theory that DNA disproves Darwinism.
> 
> Here is a link to documentary with five professors/scientists who believe Darwins theory is impossible.
> ...





callitgood said:


> Well you are wrong on all points.
> I'm not a bible believer, I do follow science and everything I cite, like you and those who believe in evolution, is backed by science.
> 
> To call scientists who do not agree with evolution, fringe, demonstrates your own close-mindedness.


Part One -

Okay, I just finished watching your video and I feel both dirty and embarrassed for you. The video was made in 1985 by a christian/creationist organization Answers in Genesis, and SO much has been discovered and refined over the last 30 years. Let's take a look at the four 'experts' on which your video relies -

Michael Denton - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Denton. This guy is the least embarrassing partly because he is the most educated, and partly because he is the only one of the four that isn't admittedly religious. He is certainly considered on the fringe, as he has all of the same data as all other biologists, but he does not come to the same obvious conclusions, at least when this was filmed decades ago. It is strange to witness a scientist who fooled themselves with a common logical fallacy (are you familiar with those? I'll bet not) known as The Argument from personal Incredulity which states, 'I cannot imagine how this could be true, therefore it is false'. Such an easy fallacy for a trained mind to sidestep, but he steps into it consistently throughout your video.
Since the writing of his book 30 years ago and to his credit, he has changed many of his views on evolution. From Wiki -

Denton is best known for his 1985 book _Evolution: A Theory in Crisis_, in the book he presented a systematic critique of neo-darwinism ranging from paleontology, fossils, homology, molecular biology, genetics and biochemistry and argued that evidence of design exists in nature. He describes himself as an evolutionist, and he has rejected biblical creationism. Because of his book he is often regarded as the person who laid the intellectual foundations for the Intelligent Design movement.[5] The book influenced both Phillip E. Johnson, the father of intelligent design, and George Gilder, co-founder of the Discovery Institute, the hub of the intelligent design movement.[6] Since writing the book Denton has changed many of his views on evolution, however he still believes that the existence of life is a matter of design.

AND
From Talk Origins on the same wiki page, which is a highly respected forum whereby scientific heavies... why am I explaining this to you? Since you follow science (yeah, right), of course you know Talk Origins -

29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: A Response to Ashby Camp's "Critique", Talk.Origins "Interestingly, it appears that Denton has finally rectified his misunderstanding about nested hierarchies and common descent, since in his latest book he unconditionally assumes the validity of the nested hierarchy, common descent, and the tree of life."

So, Denton does not even believe the majority of his own horseshit that he did on your video. Even in your video at 14:12, he admits there are two possibilities, a universe created by design (a Skyhook), and a universe that is self-organizing (a Crane). Moving on, it only gets more embarrassing from here...

Werner Gitt - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Gitt

Creationist extraordinaire, who's education isn't even biology, but engineering. Why would he be biased, right? WTF???

'Gitt was an engineering professor at the Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt, Germany's national institute for natural and engineering sciences. By the 1990s he was assuming a leadership role in the German creationary movement, through the publication of several influential creationary books. He was one of the leaders of the nondenominational _Wort und Wissen_ (Word and Knowledge) society, the largest creationary society in Germany.[1]'


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## tyler.durden (Oct 19, 2014)

Part Two - 

Next...

Lee Spetner - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Spetner
Your video was quite dishonest and deceptive to list his credentials as a bio-physicist, as he is nothing of the sort - 

*Education*
Spetner received his BS degree in mechanical engineering at Washington University in 1945[2] and his Ph.D. in physics from MIT in 1950, where his Ph.D. thesis advisors were Robert Williams and Bruno Rossi.[3]
Spetner first became interested in evolution in 1970 after moving to Israel. In Israel he indulged in searching for evidence which contradicted the modern evolutionary synthesis. Spetner was inspired by the rabbi David Luria (1798 - 1855), who calculated that according to Talmudic sources that there was 365 originally created species of beasts and 365 of birds. Spetner developed what he called his "nonrandom evolutionary hypothesis", which (in common with Christian young earth creationists) accepted microevolution (which he attributed to Lamarckian-like inheritance), but rejected macroevolution.[5]

Spetner has been described as a Jewish Creationist.[6] In 1980 at a conference for Jewish scientists, Spetner claimed the Archaeopteryx was a fraud. Spetner continued his attack on the modern evolutionary synthesis in his book _Not by chance! Shattering the Modern Theory of Evolution_.[7] 

So, here we have a creationist who was motivated to look into evolution with the stated goal of overturning it. No bias or agenda there 

Next...

Don Batten - http://creationwiki.org/Don_Batten

*Dr. Donald James Batten* was born and raised in a rural a part of Australia, and became a Christian at 10 years all thanks to a street preacher. He had heard a comment from a zoologist, and he realized that 'evolution is really a belief system parading around as science'. He is now a Creation evangelist working with Creation Ministries International in Australia, being a major contributor to their magazine _Creation_ and their technical _Journal of Creation_.

Another creationist, what a surprise. You asked why creationists/christians would be biased in their search for the truth about evolution, so here is the answer - they start out with a belief already in place before they start their search, that is the definition of bias. This is not science. Science starts its process neutral, without bias, in order to search for the truth wherever the evidence leads, without a stake in where that goes. Atheist (those who have no belief in deities) scientists start their search with no prior belief, and do not have an agenda nor care where the data leads. They are interested only in the truth of objective reality. 

Your video and posts hinge on the erroneous misinformation that no new information is added to genomes through mutation, information is only lost. This is pure bullshit - 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

*Mutation*
Further information: Mutation


Duplication of part of a chromosome.
Mutations are changes in the DNA sequence of a cell's genome. When mutations occur, they can either have no effect, alter the product of a gene, or prevent the gene from functioning. Based on studies in the fly _Drosophila melanogaster_, it has been suggested that if a mutation changes a protein produced by a gene, this will probably be harmful, with about 70% of these mutations having damaging effects, and the remainder being either neutral or weakly beneficial.[70]

Mutations can involve large sections of a chromosome becoming duplicated (usually by genetic recombination), which can introduce extra copies of a gene into a genome.[71] Extra copies of genes are a major source of the raw material needed for new genes to evolve.[72] This is important because most new genes evolve within gene families from pre-existing genes that share common ancestors.[73] For example, the human eye uses four genes to make structures that sense light: three for colour vision and one for night vision; all four are descended from a single ancestral gene.[74]

New genes can be generated from an ancestral gene when a duplicate copy mutates and acquires a new function. This process is easier once a gene has been duplicated because it increases the redundancy of the system; one gene in the pair can acquire a new function while the other copy continues to perform its original function.[75][76] Other types of mutations can even generate entirely new genes from previously noncoding DNA.[77][78]

The generation of new genes can also involve small parts of several genes being duplicated, with these fragments then recombining to form new combinations with new functions.[79][80] When new genes are assembled from shuffling pre-existing parts, domains act as modules with simple independent functions, which can be mixed together to produce new combinations with new and complex functions.[81] For example, polyketide synthases are large enzymes that make antibiotics; they contain up to one hundred independent domains that each catalyse one step in the overall process, like a step in an assembly line.[82]

We can see from the above excerpt how mutation consistently introduces new info into the genome. I implore you to lose your preconceptions, bias, ignorance and agenda on this topic, and to continue (or begin) your education into evolution by natural selection. The evidence is clear and overwhelming to any competent mind free of bias. This can be accomplished by halting exposure to creationist sources and exposing oneself to the actual theory. Wiki is a great place to start. Barring this, you have at least been exposed as someone who doesn't know what they are talking about, and other members are now free to ignore or discredit your ignorant posts...


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 19, 2014)

@tyler.durden 

Dude is the same as the rest, nothing of substance, avoids acknowledging logical fallacies, believes in supernatural intervention..

I wasted 2 hours on the guy today, save yourself the trouble..


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## tyler.durden (Oct 19, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> @tyler.durden
> 
> Dude is the same as the rest, nothing of substance, avoids acknowledging logical fallacies, believes in supernatural intervention..
> 
> I wasted 2 hours on the guy today, save yourself the trouble..


I hear you, I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt before dismissal. The main reason I post is not to simply debate or converse with one person, but rather for the other RIU members reading these threads. They are the ones to decide who is presenting valid information that they can verify for themselves, and who is a full-of-shit poser not interested in reality, only their own agenda. Most of the members I've seen lose debates here do not recognize nor admit the defeat (which further leads to discredit them), but it is clear to other members, and that's good enough for me


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## Skuxx (Oct 19, 2014)

This may sound dumb, but I had always at least believed evolution growing up. I learned about it in school, tv, and it made sense from what I had read and I could understand it _somewhat_... But one day on about 4 or 5 hits of acid I ended up in a deep trance. I actually had a powerful vision of the evolution of the entire universe on a large scale basically. I can't explain it in any way really... but it was amazing and I broke down in tears from it. Ever since then I can literally just see it. Sure it was just acid and a hallucination or whatever... But to me it was a real profound vision. I'm thankful for it.

The Bible also describes evolution if you pay attention... evolution in sort of a different way than science perhaps, but evolution nonetheless. Most creationists are bible thumpers, so they obviously can't follow their own book very well. If you don't believe me, then give it another read.

You evolve so much even in your own short lifetime, so why can people not believe that it happens on a larger scale? I mean you start off as a sperm... end up in a womb... turn into a fetus and now here you are. Is that not evoluton for fucks sake?

Just some random thoughts without getting scientific.


----------



## tip top toker (Oct 19, 2014)

I am mentally stable. Why would i concern myself with a make believe invisible friend?


----------



## jjfw (Oct 19, 2014)

There is no God.


----------



## callitgood (Oct 19, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> Part One -
> 
> Okay, I just finished watching your video and I feel both dirty and embarrassed for you. The video was made in 1985 by a christian/creationist organization Answers in Genesis, and SO much has been discovered and refined over the last 30 years. Let's take a look at the four 'experts' on which your video relies -
> 
> ...


LMAO whatever dude. you believe whatever garbage you want, how's that.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 19, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> I hear you, I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt before dismissal. The main reason I post is not to simply debate or converse with one person, but rather for the other RIU members reading these threads. They are the ones to decide who is presenting valid information that they can verify for themselves, and who is a full-of-shit poser not interested in reality, only their own agenda. Most of the members I've seen lose debates here do not recognize nor admit the defeat (which further leads to discredit them), but it is clear to other members, and that's good enough for me


A for effort



callitgood said:


> LMAO whatever dude. you believe whatever garbage you want, how's that.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 19, 2014)

Even though there are 10 more votes for 'no', I'd put money down the collective age of the 'yes' votes would still be at minimum 100 years higher

Thank you internet!


----------



## callitgood (Oct 19, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> @tyler.durden
> 
> Dude is the same as the rest, nothing of substance, avoids acknowledging logical fallacies, believes in supernatural intervention..
> 
> I wasted 2 hours on the guy today, save yourself the trouble..


Hey bud, don't lie to try to make yourself sound better.
I told you at least two times that I do not except divine creation or evolution.
And the only one wasting time is me, listening to you regurgitate stuff you don't even understand.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 19, 2014)

callitgood said:


> Hey bud, don't lie to try to make yourself sound better.
> I told you at least two times that I do not except divine creation or evolution.
> And the only one wasting time is me, listening to you regurgitate stuff you don't even understand.


Says the genius who doesn't know how to spell the word 'accept' correctly..

OK short stuff, you keep on keepin' on


----------



## callitgood (Oct 19, 2014)

LMAO

you resort to pointing out spelling errors, what a child you are.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 19, 2014)

callitgood said:


> LMAO
> 
> you resort to pointing out spelling errors, what a child you are.


The next time you try to insult somebody else's intelligence, you might want to make sure you spell a 4th grade reading vocabulary word correctly is all I'm sayin'..


----------



## ElfoodStampo (Oct 19, 2014)

tortie said:


> Quick Poll!!


Define god,
like what is your interpretation of god, then I can answer.


----------



## tyler.durden (Oct 19, 2014)

callitgood said:


> LMAO whatever dude. you believe whatever garbage you want, how's that.


Well, I gave you the chance to show some redeeming qualities. I thought you may man up and start to learn, but I see you choose to be like most and are more interested in protecting your ego than learning. It is okay, people can now see you for what you are - a childish laughing stock in this sub-forum. Off to the children's table with you, at least you won't be lonely over there...


----------



## Skuxx (Oct 19, 2014)

ElfoodStampo said:


> Define god,
> like what is your interpretation of god, then I can answer.


Good luck getting a decent response to that question. Pretty rare.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 19, 2014)

ElfoodStampo said:


> Define god,
> like what is your interpretation of god, then I can answer.


An omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipresent supreme being in control of creation of the universe and everything encompassing existence who cares what gender you put your penis in


----------



## callitgood (Oct 19, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> Well, I gave you the chance to show some redeeming qualities. I thought you may man up and start to learn, but I see you choose to be like most and are more interested in protecting your ego than learning. It is okay, people can now see you for what you are - a childish laughing stock in this sub-forum. Off to the children's table with you, at least you won't be lonely over there...


You gave me a chance? LOL
You are are so close minded that you haven't figured out your argument is not with me, but with other scientists.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 19, 2014)

callitgood said:


> You gave me a chance? LOL
> You are are so close minded that you haven't figured out your argument is not with me, but with other scientists.


You keep repeating that, but like I told you earlier, the theory of evolution is one the most widely accepted theories in all of science, which means the vast majority of scientists agree with TD and I, and not you


----------



## tyler.durden (Oct 19, 2014)

callitgood said:


> You gave me a chance? LOL
> You are are so close minded that you haven't figured out your argument is not with me, but with other scientists.


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> You keep repeating that, but like I told you earlier, the theory of evolution is one the most widely accepted theories in all of science, which means the vast majority of scientists agree with TD and I, and not you


LOL tell that to the many scientists who discredit it.


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


>


hey, you received a like from padawhatever.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 20, 2014)

callitgood said:


> LOL tell that to the many scientists who discredit it.


There are no credible scientists on earth who have discredited evolution


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> There are no credible scientists on earth who have discredited evolution


And you are telling me you have the knowledge and intelligence to discredit scientists? LOL
You mean every scientist who doesn't fit your agenda, you disagree with.
That's typical for close-minded partisan hacks.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 20, 2014)

callitgood said:


> And you are telling me you have the knowledge and intelligence to discredit scientists? LOL
> You mean every scientist who doesn't fit your agenda, you disagree with.
> That's typical for close-minded partisan hacks.


Name 5


----------



## ElfoodStampo (Oct 20, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> An omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipresent supreme being in control of creation of the universe and everything encompassing existence who cares what gender you put your penis in


Then I would say no I don't believe in god.(per say) 
My idea of "god is a little more ambiguous.


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Name 5


I won't waste my time playing games with a close minded hack like you.
You remind me more and more of my ex, but he was more intellegent than the likes of you.
Have a nice day


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 20, 2014)

callitgood said:


> I won't waste my time playing games with a close minded hack like you.
> You remind me more and more of my ex, but he was more intellegent than the likes of you.
> Have a nice day


LOL!

That's what I thought.. You can't even produce a single name, haha!

This has to be the weakest troll attempt I've ever encountered, go get some practice, pumpkin, then come back and see me


----------



## skunkd0c (Oct 20, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> who cares what gender you put your penis in


And weather you eat shellfish or not

*Leviticus 11:10* - And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters,
and of any living thing which [is] in the waters, they [shall be] an abomination unto you


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> LOL!
> 
> That's what I thought.. You can't even produce a single name, haha!
> 
> This has to be the weakest troll attempt I've ever encountered, go get some practice, pumpkin, then come back and see me


It was a very weak troll, seems to me it was you doing the trolling though, not I.
You can't accept the fact that someone has a different opinion, it's either your belief or you try to discredit them.
I'll take a guess here and say you consider yourself progessive liberal.


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

A SCIENTIFIC DISSENT FROM DARWINISM

“We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged.”
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?id=660


You asked for 5, I'll give you over 800 scientists who diccent from Darwins theory of evolution. 
Discussion over unless you feel the urge to argue with them.


----------



## tyler.durden (Oct 20, 2014)

callitgood said:


> It was a very weak troll, seems to me it was you doing the trolling though, not I.
> You can't accept the fact that someone has a different opinion, it's either your belief or you try to discredit them.
> I'll take a guess here and say you consider yourself progessive liberal.


When posting in public forums (or sub-forums) that include science or philosophy, one needs to be prepared to be be called on their shit, i.e. be ready to support their positive claims via credible sources, logic and reason. You came into this sub-forum making such claims - evolution hasn't been proven, many credible scientists are against the theory, and that it is actually impossible for it to work the way the theory states it does, etc.. Huge, ballsy claims, indeed. You are then asked to support said claims, not an unreasonable request, and what do you offer up? Poorly sourced creationist videos from decades ago obviously made by biased hacks with an agenda of misinformation. Pad simply asks for a handful of these MANY scientists you claim to have discredited the theory, and you respond with a red herrings and strawmen. You are attempting to side step the issue that you need to show support for your positive claims. If you cannot do this, we have to conclude that there is no such support, and that you are a poser. No one here sets out to discredit anyone, but when you behave like this, you are only discrediting yourself...


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 20, 2014)

callitgood said:


> You can't accept the fact that someone has a different opinion, it's either your belief or you try to discredit them.


You can't accept that science isn't about your beliefs or opinions;









callitgood said:


> A SCIENTIFIC DISSENT FROM DARWINISM
> 
> “We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged.”
> http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?id=660
> ...


"A Scientific Dissent from Darwinism (or Dissent From Darwinism) is a statement issued in 2001 by the *Discovery Institute, a fundamentalist conservative Christian think tank based in Seattle, Washington, US, best known for its advocacy of intelligent design.*"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism


What a moron..


----------



## tyler.durden (Oct 20, 2014)

callitgood said:


> A SCIENTIFIC DISSENT FROM DARWINISM
> 
> “We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged.”
> http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?id=660
> ...


Could you please let me know how to open your file? It isn't working for me...

Edit - never mind, I just saw pad's post. More creationist bullshit...


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 20, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> Could you please let me know how to open your file? It isn't working for me...
> 
> Edit - never mind, I just saw pad's post. More creationist bullshit...


But he's not a creationist...


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> When posting in public forums (or sub-forums) that include science or philosophy, one needs to be prepared to be be called on their shit, i.e. be ready to support their positive claims via credible sources, logic and reason. You came into this sub-forum making such claims - evolution hasn't been proven, many credible scientists are against the theory, and that it is actually impossible for it to work the way the theory states it does, etc.. Huge, ballsy claims, indeed. You are then asked to support said claims, not an unreasonable request, and what do you offer up? Poorly sourced creationist videos from decades ago obviously made by biased hacks with an agenda of misinformation. Pad simply asks for a handful of these MANY scientists you claim to have discredited the theory, and you respond with a red herrings and strawmen. You are attempting to side step the issue that you need to show support for your positive claims. If you cannot do this, we have to conclude that there is no such support, and that you are a poser. No one here sets out to discredit anyone, but when you behave like this, you are only discrediting yourself...


Sounds about right to me, the only problem with you assertion is, you are not arguing with me, you are challenging scientists who happen to disagree with you, I listed over 800 scientists who do not support evolution, it's very simple, take it up with them.

Why is it you attack me for their analysis is beyond me, is it because I have to believe what you think is fact?


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> You can't accept that science isn't about your beliefs or opinions;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You asked for 5 scientists, I gave you over 800.
Now you see why I called your close minded partisanship a game.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 20, 2014)

callitgood said:


> Sounds about right to me, the only problem with you assertion is, you are not arguing with me, you are challenging scientists who happen to disagree with you, I listed over 800 scientists who do not support evolution, it's very simple, take it up with them.
> 
> Why is it you attack me for their analysis is beyond me, is it because I have to believe what you think is fact?


That was a survey conducted by the Discovery Institute, in no way is it scientific at all. They push a right wing, Christian agenda for intelligent design. 

You're doing exactly what the "scientists" who argued tobacco was healthy for the tobacco companies did in the '60's & '70's

Your failure to acknowledge or address that point shows everybody reading this how dishonest you are


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 20, 2014)

callitgood said:


> You asked for 5 scientists, I gave you over 800.
> Now you see why I called your close minded partisanship a game.


You gave me a survey conducted by a right wing Christian group that advocates for intelligent design

That's not scientific in the least, doofus


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> Could you please let me know how to open your file? It isn't working for me...
> 
> Edit - never mind, I just saw pad's post. More creationist bullshit...


Here is how close minded you are.
If a scientist believes in god, which all of them on the list do not, you immediately discredit them as a scientist because they don't fit your agenda, quite immature reasoning if you ask me.


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> You gave me a survey conducted by a right wing Christian group that advocates for intelligent design
> 
> That's not scientific in the least, doofus


It's not a right wing website, lying only discredits you further.
I guess I could say all your citations come from left wing atheist websites.
Now where are we?


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 20, 2014)

callitgood said:


> Here is how close minded you are.
> If a scientist believes in god, which all of them on the list do not, you immediately discredit them as a scientist because they don't fit your agenda, quite immature reasoning if you ask me.


Nobody who denies evolution is a credible scientist, that's the thing.. 

Credible scientists accept evolution, if you don't, you're not a credible scientist

See how that works?


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

Here is a good book for you two close minded left wing nuts to read.
*

Atheists attack Darwinian evolution in new book.*

"All critics of Darwin are raving lunatics, fundamentalist Creationists or Right-wing zealots...

...or so many people are led to believe. 

But is this actually true? Jerry Fodor, professor of philosophy and cognitive sciences at Rutgers University, and Massimo Piattelli-Palmarini, a professor of cognitive science at the University of Arizona, are living proof that this is a false stereotype. Fodor and Piattelli-Palmarini, both atheist, co-authored the book "What Darwin God Wrong" and were recently interviewed about it. The following excerpt is particularly interesting:"
http://www.examiner.com/article/atheists-attack-darwinian-evolution-new-book


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 20, 2014)

callitgood said:


> It's not a right wing website, lying only discredits you further.
> I guess I could say all your citations come from left wing atheist websites.
> Now where are we?


The Discovery Institute isn't a right wing group???

LOL!

The Discovery Institute on religion;

"*Religion and Public Life.* The worldview of scientific materialism has been pitted against traditional beliefs in the existence of God, Judeo-Christian ethics and the intrinsic dignity and freedom of man. Because it denies the reality of God, the idea of the Imago Dei in man, and an objective moral order, it also denies the relevance of religion to public life and policy. Our program on Religion and Civic Life defends the continuing relevance of traditional religious faith to public life within a pluralistic democracy. Specifically, it seeks to defend the importance of Judeo-Christian conceptions of the rule of law, the nature of man and the necessity of limiting the power of government. Thus, it also seeks to protect religious liberty, including its public expression in pluralistic democracies."

LOL!

The Discovery Institute's founders Bruce Chapman;

"From 1988 to 1990, Chapman was a fellow at the Hudson Institute, a conservative think tank. In 1990, he left Hudson and founded the Discovery Institute. *The institute is best known as the hub of the Intelligent Design movement*, and also focuses on a broad range of issues, including transportation and international cooperation in the Cascadia region.

And George Gilder;

"He helped found the Discovery Institute with Bruce Chapman. The organization started as a moderate group which aimed to privatize and modernize Seattle's transit systems but *it later became the leading think tank of the intelligent design movement, with Gilder writing many articles in favor of ID and opposing the theory of evolution.* He, like others at the institute, denies that the Shannon information measure alone provides a good measure for biological information, because that measure ignores the actual function or meaning in the code. Gilder contends that Shannon information theory actually shows that evolution cannot be explained by unintelligent physical causes, because it focuses on "the medium, not the message"."

LOL!


Weakest troll I've ever come across, step your game up, son!


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> You can't accept that science isn't about your beliefs or opinions;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So your citation is from the far left liberal wikipedia, what a joke you are.


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> The Discovery Institute isn't a right wing group???
> 
> LOL!
> 
> ...


So you never answered my question, do you have a science degree, do you have the credentials to debate with scientists?

Simple question, yes or no?


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> You can't accept that science isn't about your beliefs or opinions;
> 
> 
> What a moron..


Awe, now you resort to name calling, LOL we all know what that means.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 20, 2014)

callitgood said:


> So you never answered my question, do you have a science degree, do you have the credentials to debate with scientists?
> 
> Simple question, yes or no?


What makes you think you need an advanced science degree to talk about science? 



callitgood said:


> So your citation is from the far left liberal wikipedia, what a joke you are.


Here, you'll probably like this one better;

http://www.conservapedia.com/Evolution


----------



## tyler.durden (Oct 20, 2014)

callitgood said:


> Here is how close minded you are.
> If a scientist believes in god, which all of them on the list do not, you immediately discredit them as a scientist because they don't fit your agenda, quite immature reasoning if you ask me.





callitgood said:


> Sounds about right to me, the only problem with you assertion is, you are not arguing with me, you are challenging scientists who happen to disagree with you, I listed over 800 scientists who do not support evolution, it's very simple, take it up with them.
> 
> Why is it you attack me for their analysis is beyond me, is it because I have to believe what you think is fact?


I know that you are intelligent enough to understand what I'm conveying to you. Your sources thus far have an agenda and a bias against the rock solid theory of evolution by natural selection. It cannot be considered science under these conditions, I know that you know this. To find the truth about objective reality, one has to go in with as few assumptions as possible. Assuming that deities not only exist but created everything in the cosmos are GIGANTIC assumptions. I've already shown you (in very lengthy, thoughtful and well written posts) how these 'scientists' deceive, leave out critical facts, and knowingly spread misinformation in order to conceal the truth to further their agenda. I've proved this to you, it is time to accept it. Do 800 of these people who do not agree exist in the world? Perhaps. But they do not come to that conclusion through the scientific method, they come to it by faith. You need to learn to recognize what info is credible from what isn't, and why people with an admitted agenda state things that are not true. My mind is very open, that is why I didn't dismiss you or your sources out of hand, but instead spent hours listening to, analyzing then verifying what they all had to say. Can you say the same? Have you spent time and effort in an attempt to understand this theory that you are trying to discredit? Do you know what the opposing side knows? Because I do. You need to find out what our side knows before you can honestly debate it. Please look through my prior posts for the easily verifiable information that clearly shows why the theory is solid and how exactly it works. I think you'll find it fascinating. Please quit trying to prop up a bunch of deceptive charlatans because they agree with you, that isn't the way to truth, and it is dishonest...


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> What makes you think you need an advanced science degree to talk about science?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Was that a no?


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> I know that you are intelligent enough to understand what I'm conveying to you. Your sources thus far have an agenda and a bias against the rock solid theory of evolution by natural selection. It cannot be considered science under these conditions, I know that you know this. To find the truth about objective reality, one has to go in with as few assumptions as possible. Assuming that deities not only exist but created everything in the cosmos are GIGANTIC assumptions. I've already shown you (in very lengthy, thoughtful and well written posts) how these 'scientists' deceive, leave out critical facts, and knowingly spread misinformation in order to conceal the truth to further their agenda. I've proved this to you, it is time to accept it. Do 800 of these people who do not agree exist in the world? Perhaps. But they do not come to that conclusion through the scientific method, they come to it by faith. You need to learn to recognize what is info is credible from what isn't, and why people with an admitted agenda state things that are not true. My mind is very open, that is why I didn't dismiss you or your sources out of hand, but instead spent hours listening to, analyzing then verifying what they all had to say. Can you say the same? Have you spent time and effort in an attempt to understand this theory that you are trying to discredit? Do you know what the opposing side knows? Because I do. You need to find out what our side knows before you can honestly debate it. Please look through my prior posts for the easily verifiable information that clearly shows why the theory is solid and how exactly it works. I think you'll find it fascinating. Please quit trying to prompt up a bunch of dishonest charlatans because they agree with you, that isn't the way to truth, and it is dishonest...


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

Here again I will point out how you are close minded.
There are many scientists who dissent from Darwins theory, that is fact.
Whether or not the website that cites these scientists are religeous or not does not discredit the scientist, unless of course you have undeniable proof the data is incorrect, then I would agree with you.
So, do you have that undeniable proof, if so please provide it or admit you are opining.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 20, 2014)

callitgood said:


> Here again I will point out how you are close minded.
> There are many scientists who dissent from Darwins theory, that is fact.
> Whether or not the website that cites these scientists are religeous or not does not discredit the scientist, unless of course you have undeniable proof the data is incorrect, then I would agree with you.
> So, do you have that undeniable proof, if so please provide it or admit you are opining.


Who said a scientists religious beliefs discredit them?

There are many scientists who believe in Christianity who accept evolution as fact


This is hilarious!


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Who said a scientists religious beliefs discredit them?
> 
> There are many scientists who believe in Christianity who accept evolution as fact
> 
> ...





Padawanbater2 said:


> Who said a scientists religious beliefs discredit them?
> 
> There are many scientists who believe in Christianity who accept evolution as fact
> 
> ...


What's hilarious is the fact you cannot comprehend what you read.
I said don't discredit the scientist because of website that cited them.

This is hilarious, you throw out an insult because you misread my post, now what does that say about you. I told you that you are a hack, now you've proved it.
It humors me that people like you consider themselves intelligent.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 20, 2014)

callitgood said:


> What's hilarious is the fact you cannot comprehend what you read.
> I said don't discredit the scientist because of website that cited them.
> 
> This is hilarious, you throw out an insult because you misread my post, now what does that say about you. I told you that you are a hack, now you've proved it.
> It humors me that people like you consider themselves intelligent.


You don't even know what you're saying at this point.. 

Trolls live under the bridge, not on marijuana forums. Get back to the bridge, son


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> You don't even know what you're saying at this point..
> 
> Trolls live under the bridge, not on marijuana forums. Get back to the bridge, son


So lets see that science degree you have? LOL


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 20, 2014)

callitgood said:


> So lets see that science degree you have? LOL


So you're saying that unless you have an advanced degree in science, you're not qualified to talk about it..

Interesting, I'm willing to bet a person who doesn't know the difference between 'accept' and 'except', cites the Discovery Institute as evidence against evolution, and couldn't answer for some of the easiest questions in biology doesn't have an advanced science degree, but yet, here you are, talking... well, trying to talk about science...


----------



## CC Dobbs (Oct 20, 2014)

Fuck that lil' Sky Fairy. 

Or at least what everybody pretends he/she/it is.

Fuck that lil' pretend Sky-Fairy


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> So you're saying that unless you have an advanced degree in science, you're not qualified to talk about it..
> 
> Interesting, I'm willing to bet a person who doesn't know the difference between 'accept' and 'except', cites the Discovery Institute as evidence against evolution, and couldn't answer for some of the easiest questions in biology doesn't have an advanced science degree, but yet, here you are, talking... well, trying to talk about science...


Funny thing, Albert Einstein and JFK were both horrific spellers, I'll gladly keep company with that crowd, thank you.

btw, were you a spelling bee champion in grade school padawhatever, is that what made you the brilliant man you are today? LOL



Being bilingual, one could hardly blame Einstein for being a bad speller in English. Yet it wasn’t just in English that Einstein struggled. He also was a pretty bad speller in his native German, and got even worse when he began using English more regularly. Of course, Einstein didn’t make those same errors when it came to writing mathematical equations, a fact that helped to make his name synonymous with genius today.



JFK is a figure that has fascinated the American public for decades, but what many may not know is just how bad of a speller the famous president was. He was outed for his poor spelling by his wife, Jackie, though she was a French literature major in college and would later become a book editor, so she may have been a pretty harsh critic.


----------



## callitgood (Oct 20, 2014)

DemonTrich said:


> believing in JC is a ploy in order to keep people alive and give them hope when everyone was getting stoned and killed, impoverished 2000+yrs ago. even now, it gives people something to live for and to feel better about themselves even in this day and age. with out hope and religion, this world would crumble in Anarchy as people wouldn't know what to do with themselves. I knew from a very young age that I didn't believe in God. I even went to vacation bible school for years and my daycare was at a church when I was a little tike. I believe in the scientific aspect of things. JC been around for what 2014 years (+/-). ok, who made the damn dinosaurs, who made the planets, who make the fossils that have been carbon dated (PROOF!!!!) from 1.5 MILLION years ago. there is NO proof of JC 1.5 million yrs ago. show me a fossil of his and ill believe.
> 
> I now have a 7mo old boy. I WILL have him baptized (as was I and his mom(who believes in god)), and I will let my son make up his own mind about God. its his choice, and no one elses.


I suppose I'm one of the odd ones who believe that god could possibly be extraterrestrials who came here thousands of years ago.
To me, it makes more sense than coming from adam an eve or an ape.

But I'll have to say, I'm touched by your post, the part where you are being unselfish and open minded by letting your son make up his own mind, the world needs more fathers like you.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 20, 2014)

callitgood said:


> Funny thing, Albert Einstein and JFK were both horrific spellers, I'll gladly keep company with that crowd, thank you.
> 
> btw, were you a spelling bee champion in grade school padawhatever, is that what made you the brilliant man you are today? LOL
> 
> ...


Why are you discussing science when you don't have an advanced science degree?


----------



## tyler.durden (Oct 20, 2014)

callitgood said:


> Here again I will point out how you are close minded.
> There are many scientists who dissent from Darwins theory, that is fact.
> Whether or not the website that cites these scientists are religeous or not does not discredit the scientist, unless of course you have undeniable proof the data is incorrect, then I would agree with you.
> So, do you have that undeniable proof, if so please provide it or admit you are opining.


You are consistently using common logical fallacies, which may explain the errors in your thinking process. I will create a thread on this topic because they are so pervasive, but I suggest you become familiar with them before that - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
I suggest starting with the informal fallacies. This entire subject that there are scientists that cannot understand evolution is a red herring, meaning that it is A point that is serving to distract from THE point, which is the fact of evolution by natural selection. If you look around, you will be able to find dissenters from every theory, or every fact. The dissension means nothing to these theories and facts, they have not been overturned and the overwhelming majority of scientists in their respective fields still go on to employ them to describe reality. The very fact that you need to use numbers like 800 to support your position shows that you have already lost, as our position has so much backing that we have no need to speak of numbers. The fact is that evolutionary theory could possibly be overturned and falsified in many different ways, it is just that not a single person has ever come close to doing this. Not even the ones of which you speak. 

But, if you insist, let's go through the exercise. We've already begun, as you've offered up material which I've picked apart for you (you're welcome) to show how science was not applied in order to reach it's major claims, and I've showed exactly where their misinformation lay, and I corrected its deception. Now another of your fallacies needs addressing, The Burden of Proof - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof
It is up to the one making the positive claim to provide proof for their position, it is not up to their audience to disprove them. We can easily see why this is so: their are SO many whacky claims in the world that it would be a full time job for anyone to attempt to disprove them all. But with each party providing proof of their own claims for others, it is possible for every claim to be supported or not through such proof. I assume (because I could not open your file) you recently threw a list of 800 scientists that dissent from EBNS, and stated that they are not necessarily creationists or christians, nor display any bias or agenda toward the evidence for evolution.
Why don't you go through that list, choose the scientists that you verify as credible, and explain why you agree with them about their reasons for not understanding EBNS. We can then go on a case by case basis and see if they are justified in their dissent. I’ve showed how each of those scientists in your video were not justified in their dissent, and I showed exactly where and how they were wrong. I then went on to post the correct answers. I look forward to the opportunity to look over the scientists and their reasons you post from that (or any) list, unless you won’t do this and possibly be accused of being lazy, or even worse, close-minded…


----------



## GreenLogician (Mar 21, 2016)

callitgood said:


> Here again I will point out how you are close minded.
> There are many scientists who dissent from Darwins theory, that is fact.
> Whether or not the website that cites these scientists are religeous or not does not discredit the scientist, unless of course you have undeniable proof the data is incorrect, then I would agree with you.
> So, do you have that undeniable proof, if so please provide it or admit you are opining.


Firstly, most scientists on that infamous list are not in biology or evolution-related fields. There are a lot of 'electrical engineer's and 'dental technician's and the like.
Secondly, the statement they signed is phrased such that you can agree with it even if you utterly accept evolution. As long as you think we should keep an eye out for mechanisms other than natural selection, you'd sign it. And because of this,
Thirdly, they were disingenuously asked to sign, and many scientists who found out that what they signed was anti-evolution, requested to have their names removed, again and again - but their names were kept on the list.

Here's someone who goes through the list and emails those from fields actually related to evolution. Only a couple actually reject evolution.
p.s. The maker of this video was a Christian, but a biology major who had no patience for creationist lies giving Christianity a bad name.


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## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

It really hurts when you see that 55% dont even believe and 10% more say maybe! 

Wow!!


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## Padawanbater2 (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> It really hurts when you see that 55% dont even believe and 10% more say maybe!
> 
> Wow!!


Why does it matter what someone else believes if they're not hurting anybody?


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Why does it matter what someone else believes if they're not hurting anybody?


Becouse its like watching somebodys dying without bien able to help them out!


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## Cyrus420 (Mar 24, 2016)

No, no I do not.


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## Padawanbater2 (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> Becouse its like watching somebodys dying without bien able to help them out!


There are people who feel the same way about your beliefs as you do about atheists, so how do you know which religion is right without any evidence?


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Cyrus420 said:


> No, no I do not.


Am sure you dont now cyrus de virus  lol

But maybe later on bro.

You know whats funny about this

That I dont lose alot if am wrong but you will lose LOads more if you are 

Be smart play safe 

Bubble


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Padawanbater2 said:


> There are people who feel the same way about your beliefs as you do about atheists, so how do you know which religion is right without any evidence?



My religion has its evidence

I could give this to you if you have time to watch 3 hours lecture which I doubt you will!


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> That I dont lose alot if am wrong but you will lose LOads more if you are


If you're wrong, people waste their entire lives believing a lie. They lose their entire life and everything it encompasses


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> My religion has its evidence
> 
> I could give this to you if you have time to watch 3 hours lecture which I doubt you will!


If you had evidence, it wouldn't take someone 3 hours to explain it


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## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Padawanbater2 said:


> If you're wrong, people waste their entire lives believing a lie. They lose their entire life and everything it encompasses


Still, didnt lose alot! 


But you didnt answer me what if there is hell??!! 

Can you pay the price of bien wrong, or you will regreat and which you go back in time ?!

Your choice your previlige !


----------



## Cut.Throat. (Mar 24, 2016)

Do I believe in something that doesn't have a single shred of evidence to support it? Fuck no. Humans can't accept that you cease to exist when you die so they created god. Out of fear and the want to control other people with the threat of eternal damnation. Don't get me wrong. If i lived a thousand years ago I'd abuse the shit out of religion. But that's because I'm an asshole.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> Still, didnt lose alot!
> 
> 
> But you didnt answer me what if there is hell??!!
> ...


Then I guess I'll end up in hell. I can't force myself to believe something I don't think exists, you don't get to choose what you believe. If some omnipotent being decides I deserve to be in hell because I didn't believe in it throughout my life because I looked at the evidence and found no logical reason to believe, then I wouldn't worship that being even if I knew it did exist. That's a human trait, not one of a benevolent being.


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Then I guess I'll end up in hell. I can't force myself to believe something I don't think exists, you don't get to choose what you believe. If some omnipotent being decides I deserve to be in hell because I didn't believe in it throughout my life because I looked at the evidence and found no logical reason to believe, then I wouldn't worship that being even if I knew it did exist. That's a human trait, not one of a benevolent being.


I would say that you didnt try even to search for evidence or read


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## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Those ppl who speaking about that there is no prove, I would say to them go make your home work first.

Go read the 3 semetic religions books

And choose for your self.

I made my home work did you?


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Some would ask me why only the semitic religions, I wouldsay bcz i will not worship cow or a sun or a man made religion. 

So Jewish Christian and islam basically what I mean.


----------



## Cut.Throat. (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> Those ppl who speaking about that there is no prove, I would say to them go make your home work first.
> 
> Go read the 3 semetic religions books
> 
> ...


Go read Harry Potter. Do you believe in magic now? All those books are STORIES. There is no PROOF.


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Cut.Throat. said:


> Go read Harry Potter. Do you believe in magic now? All those books are STORIES. There is no PROOF.


No I dont believe in harry Potter. 

Before you go mad at me, we are adults. 

How you can even say there is no proof if you didnt even search 

Really strange!


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

I just sayed to your friend here, I would give you a proof if you want to. 

But do you know what, its not that important to waste 3 hours of his time! 

So he preffer to argue that there is no proof exactly like you.

Instead for asking for my proof then lough on me or it later on! 

This is your brain capacity which I cant change. 

Do you see the air?! 

Why do you believe its exist? 

Becouse somebody ealse told you it exists and you toke his word for granted?!


----------



## Cut.Throat. (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> No I dont believe in harry Potter.
> 
> Before you go mad at me, we are adults.
> 
> ...


I don't have to search. You have to prove it to me. I don't want anything to do with your imaginary friend. In the future religion will be regarded as it truly is: a mental illness. You have an imaginary friend who tells you what to do. How is that not insanity?


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> Some would ask me why only the semitic religions, I wouldsay bcz i will not worship cow or a sun or a man made religion.
> 
> So Jewish Christian and islam basically what I mean.


Every religion is man made


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## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Forget about it guys


----------



## Cut.Throat. (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> I just sayed to your friend here, I would give you a proof if you want to.
> 
> But do you know what, its not that important to waste 3 hours of his time!
> 
> ...


Ok then. Show me your proof. Peer reviewed proof. Scientifically proven without a doubt proof.


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## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

That what I meant from the begining.

Its like watching somebodys dien and you are not able to help them 

I know already that you aint even gonna give it a chance guys 

Will go now to my imaginary friend 

Bye bye


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## Cut.Throat. (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> That what I meant from the begining.
> 
> Its like watching somebodys dien and you are not able to help them
> 
> ...


So no proof?

edit: proof is a funny word if you say/type it a lot. lol


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Cut.Throat. said:


> Ok then. Show me your proof. Peer reviewed proof. Scientifically proven without a doubt proof.



If you are really gonna dedicate your time till the end of it!
Am willing to share it with you, its a debate lecture between two semetic religions.

You shouldnt really pick a side just liesten to what those ppl sayen and only whats your logic accepts after research!!

Fair enough?


----------



## Cut.Throat. (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> If you are really gonna dedicate your time till the end of it!
> Am willing to share it with you, its a debate lecture between two semetic religions.
> 
> You shouldnt really pick a side just liesten to what those ppl sayen and only whats your logic accepts after research!!
> ...


Sure. I'm down. But once they start talking like 2000 year old stories are actually real I will turn it off. Stories are not proof.


----------



## Cyrus420 (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> Am sure you dont now cyrus de virus  lol
> 
> But maybe later on bro.
> 
> ...


Couldn't someone of a different religion than you say the same thing to you though? There are a million different beliefs out there and you've hedged your bets on one. Your "odds" are no greater than mine friend. But reality points to the conclusion that when we die that is pretty much it. Nothing to look forward to but nothing to be afraid of either. Live a good life and love your fellow man is all we have to do, it works, regardless of religion.


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## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Here is the whole debate 4 hours 

So prepare your fat dick joint for it loool







And here is a short cut if you dont have this amout of weed loool


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Cyrus420 said:


> Couldn't someone of a different religion than you say the same thing to you though? There are a million different beliefs out there and you've hedged your bets on one.
> 
> **Completly true! Thats why I made my home work friend!
> I dont believe in what I beleiev bcz my father or mother had this religion!
> ...


**Thats also true and I like!


----------



## Cut.Throat. (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> Here is the whole debate 4 hours
> 
> So prepare your fat dick joint for it loool
> 
> ...


I got 47 seconds into the second video. "This bible contains the word of god."
Nope. Sorry. It seems you don't know the definition of proof.

Can you give me any proof that doesn't rely on religious texts?


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## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Cut.Throat. said:


> I got 47 seconds into the second video. "This bible contains the word of god."
> Nope. Sorry. It seems you don't know the definition of proof.


Nope sorry it seems that you have no patience!


----------



## Cut.Throat. (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> Nope sorry it seems that you have no patience!


Correct. I have no patience for stories. Give me some actual proof.


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## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Cut.Throat. said:


> Correct. I have no patience for stories. Give me some actual proof.


Its not stories 

Good night friend


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## Cut.Throat. (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> Its not stories
> 
> Good night friend


How so? Can you prove these stories happened? Can you prove Harry Potter didn't happen?
You realize if you could actually prove god exists you'd be given a nobel prize right?


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

You know at least watch this video if you wanna shut up any religious guy who believe in God or in those religious books! 

This video tills you the scintfic errors, so if you dont wanna watch it so you believe, watch ot only so you have information about the scintific errors 

Maybe I let u get to see it this way !


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Cut.Throat. said:


> How so? Can you prove these stories happened? Can you prove Harry Potter didn't happen?
> You realize if you could actually prove god exists you'd be given a nobel prize right?


Man thats exactly what I mean!!!!!


You didnt even watch it and you jeudge it already!!!!!

Its no story its no lecture its debate for the ppl who use logic and mind.

Ill go sleep

Doei doei
(bye bye in dutch)


----------



## Cut.Throat. (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> You know at least watch this video if you wanna shut up any religious guy who believe in God or in those religious books!
> 
> This video tills you the scintfic errors, so if you dont wanna watch it so you believe, watch ot only so you have information about the scintific errors
> 
> Maybe I let u get to see it this way !


Of course there's going to be scientific errors. Because none of it is real.

If i told you i believe the flying spaghetti monster created the universe and if you don't believe you'll spend an eternity in hell, would you for one second take me seriously?


----------



## dgthumb (Mar 24, 2016)

I don't believe in god. I believe in myself.


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Cut.Throat. said:


> Of course there's going to be scientific errors. Because none of it is real.
> 
> If i told you i believe the flying spaghetti monster created the universe and if you don't believe you'll spend an eternity in hell, would you for one second take me seriously?


Till the 18 century we believed that there is only one plant in that galaxy!

And we believed that the earth is flat! 

You got the idea!


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

dgthumb said:


> I don't believe in god. I believe in myself.



Yes your father and mother were monkyes  looool


----------



## Cut.Throat. (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> Till the 18 century we believed that there is only one plant in that galaxy!
> 
> And we believed that the earth is flat!
> 
> You got the idea!


Bull. Fucking. Shit.

Planets were named after the roman's imaginary friends thousands of years ago.


----------



## dgthumb (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> Yes your father and mother were monkyes  looool


This coming from someone who can't spell (  sarcasm )


----------



## Cut.Throat. (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> Yes your father and mother were monkyes  looool


There it is! The "i can't provide proof so i will resort to personal attacks" retort.


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

dgthumb said:


> This coming from someone who can't spell. clap: sarcasm )


Am sorry friend, english is not my first language but am sure that u got it


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Cut.Throat. said:


> There it is! The "i can't provide proof so i will resort to personal attacks" retort.


Not what so ever !


Cut.Throat. said:


> There it is! The "i can't provide proof so i will resort to personal attacks" retort.


Whatever, you are right !


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Cut.Throat. said:


> Bull. Fucking. Shit.
> 
> Planets were named after the roman's imaginary friends thousands of years ago.


I didnt say who named them I sayed that till very short time we believed that we live alone in this galaxy and that the earth is flat, 
If any body back then ask YOU specially if the earth is round

I know your answer for sure ( big mosquito bla bla bla harry Potter)

Right?


----------



## Olive Drab Green (Mar 24, 2016)

.doG ma I


----------



## Cut.Throat. (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> I didnt say who named them I sayed that till very short time we believed that we live alone in this galaxy and that the earth is flat,
> If any body back then ask YOU specially if the earth is round
> 
> I know your answer for sure ( big mosquito bla bla bla harry Potter)
> ...


According to science we are alone in this galaxy. 
People didn't actually believe the earth was flat. That's a common misconception.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth

Nice try tho.


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

The *flat Earth* model is an archaic conception of the Earth's shape as a plane or disk. Many ancient cultures subscribed to a flat Earthcosmography, including Greece until theclassical period, the Bronze Age and Iron Agecivilizations of the Near East until theHellenistic period, India until the Gupta period(early centuries AD) and China until the 17th 


Wiki as well
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

Nice try!


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Padawenpater 2 am I gonna get ((like)) also for my wiki page?


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## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Cut.Throat. said:


> According to science we are alone in this galaxy.
> People didn't actually believe the earth was flat. That's a common misconception.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth
> ...


I like what you doing now.

It calles searching for truth!!


----------



## Cut.Throat. (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> The *flat Earth* model is an archaic conception of the Earth's shape as a plane or disk. Many ancient cultures subscribed to a flat Earthcosmography, including Greece until theclassical period, the Bronze Age and Iron Agecivilizations of the Near East until theHellenistic period, India until the Gupta period(early centuries AD) and China until the 17th
> 
> 
> Wiki as well
> ...


Keywords: archaic. CONCEPTION. ancient.
Conception means IDEA. As in: NOT SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN.
Guess what happens to ideas that are not scientifically proven? They die. Just like your imaginary friend will. Just like the flat earth idea.


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 24, 2016)

Cut.Throat. said:


> Keywords: archaic. CONCEPTION. ancient.
> Conception means IDEA. As in: NOT SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN.
> Guess what happens to ideas that are not scientifically proven? They die. Just like your imaginary friend will. Just like the flat earth idea.


They believed in this conception for centurys and for them it was accordiong to thier standards aproven fact! 

If you wanna say that god is a coneption it can also means its true or false 

Now back to the proof

Have you done your home work still!?


----------



## Cut.Throat. (Mar 24, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> They believed in this conception for centurys and for them it was accordiong to thier standards aproven fact!
> 
> If you wanna say that god is a coneption it can also means its true or false
> 
> ...


I will once you do your homework that the flying spaghetti monster exists. Because you're literally asking me to prove your imaginary friend exists.

Stupid people have stupid beliefs. What a surprise.

Proof:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/unique-everybody-else/201401/more-knowledge-less-belief-in-religion

I'm actually going to bed now. Goodnight.


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## GreenLogician (Mar 25, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> Have you done your home work still!?


Hi Bubblegum, I'd really like to assess some proof of God or anything supernatural, but I saw your video and I'm afraid I'm allergic to Zakir Naik.
Was he your champion, or as his opponent?
I pray you aren't a fan of Naik, as everything he says about science or history is wrong, and anyone with a familiarity with the topic can pick out his many mistakes per minute.
If you're a Naik fan, you haven't done your science homework, checking anything he says.


----------



## Bubblegum31 (Mar 25, 2016)

GreenLogician said:


> Hi Bubblegum, I'd really like to assess some proof of God or anything supernatural, but I saw your video and I'm afraid I'm allergic to Zakir Naik.
> Was he your champion, or as his opponent?
> I pray you aren't a fan of Naik, as everything he says about science or history is wrong, and anyone with a familiarity with the topic can pick out his many mistakes per minute.
> If you're a Naik fan, you haven't done your science homework, checking anything he says.


Hay green,

No he is one of many, I find the guy pretty logical tho!

I like ahmed deedat alot as well..

Maybe you can point me out please about his mistakes.

Thanks alot.

Bubble


----------



## 2ANONYMOUS (Mar 25, 2016)

I am your GOD kneel before me and rub my feet lol God , Jesus spider man superman all in the same comic book non sense , another thing we as humans need in order to get through life that someone some need to look up to ,,
If there was a God then how come he has not shown himself EVER i mean if you really think about it The universe is way above him he is nothing but a thought in your imagination nothing more n nothing less


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## GreenLogician (Mar 25, 2016)

Yep! A few mistakes he regularly repeats:
*Darwin's famous finches were found on 'Keletropist Island'
Correction: There no such place, it was the Galapagos Islands.

*Darwin found those finches pecking in different niches in a tree there, adapting to have different beak sizes depending on the holes in the tree they were pecking at.
Correction: They weren't pecking at literal niches, literal holes in a tree. They had adapted to live in different *ecological niches*, which just means any sustainable way of life.

*Naik claims the world was thought to be flat before the authorship of the Quran.
Correction: The true shape of the Earth was known 1000 years before the Quran was written, discovered by the ancient Greeks like Eratosthenes, this information quickly became widespread across the ancient world.

*He says only four transitional fossil species for human evolution from early apes are known.
Correction: There are over two dozen known species. (And thousands of specimens spread across those species.)

*He says that evolution being a 'theory' means there isn't strong evidence for it.
Correction: That's the colloquial definition of theory. In science a 'scientific theory', what evolution is, means something else. A framework of understanding that explains a body of facts, that is supported by strong evidence from multiple independent lines of research, and that has made risky predictions that were verified; predictions which were highly unlikely to be verified if the model is incorrect.

Here's someone going through 5 minutes of him talking and pointing out 25 mistakes


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Mar 26, 2016)

GreenLogician said:


> Yep! A few mistakes he regularly repeats:
> *Darwin's famous finches were found on 'Keletropist Island'
> Correction: There no such place, it was the Galapagos Islands.
> 
> ...


Mad rep for doing this


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 26, 2016)

I don't believe in God any more than I do in Hitler, Ted Cruz or Tammy Fae Bakker.

A far as I'm concerned, the motherfucker has a lot to answer for.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Mar 26, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I don't believe in God any more than I do in Hitler, Ted Cruz or Tammy Fae Bakker.
> 
> *A far as I'm concerned, the motherfucker has a lot to answer for.*


Especially for fucking his own mother!

Also, see my sig for the cold hard honest reality your post truly illustrates


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 26, 2016)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Especially for fucking his own mother!
> 
> Also, see my sig for the cold hard honest reality your post truly illustrates


Yes, I'd read that only a few days ago (I'm on a mobile phone, so I don't turn it to landscape very much). This after listening to a famous Jewish death camp survivor.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Mar 26, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Yes, I'd read that only a few days ago (I'm on a mobile phone, so I don't turn it to landscape very much). This after listening to a famous Jewish death camp survivor.


Imagine it, you're lying in cramped living quarters with 8 other people, no space to stand up, one toilet throughout the entire barracks (of more than 400 people) that exists as a hole in the ground. Everyone next to you starving and freezing..

.. and someone telling you Hitler will go to heaven while you will go to hell. For believing the wrong story. 

God, as they describe it simply cannot exist under such circumstances, and if it does, why would anyone worship it?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 26, 2016)

Because belief in God is the first step of dissociation with reality, after which holding contradictory thoughts in one's head becomes second nature.


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## Padawanbater2 (Mar 26, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Because belief in God is the first step of dissociation with reality, after which holding contradictory thoughts in one's head becomes second nature.


But violent video games and rock music are to blame..



Did anyone even put forth the question that organized religion might have something to do with it when they were blaming pop culture for all of humanity's ills when you were coming up?


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## ttystikk (Mar 26, 2016)

Padawanbater2 said:


> But violent video games and rock music are to blame..
> 
> 
> 
> Did anyone even put forth the question that organized religion might have something to do with it when they were blaming pop culture for all of humanity's ills when you were coming up?


My parents were hippies. Pot smoke swirls hazily around in my memories of many nights spent listening to my folks and friends in just such discussions.

Most of them would be pretty disgusted with who they 'grew up' to be.


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## Padawanbater2 (Mar 26, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> My parents were hippies. Pot smoke swirls hazily around in my memories of many nights spent listening to my folks and friends in just such discussions.
> 
> Most of them would be pretty disgusted with who they 'grew up' to be.


They had these conversations amongst themselves and still came out on the wrong end, even as pot smoking hippies?


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## ttystikk (Mar 26, 2016)

Padawanbater2 said:


> They had these conversations amongst themselves and still came out on the wrong end, even as pot smoking hippies?


The power of propaganda of 'society'...


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## KryptoBud (Mar 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I don't believe in God any more than I do in Hitler, Ted Cruz or Tammy Fae Bakker.
> 
> A far as I'm concerned, the motherfucker has a lot to answer for.


I haven't been very impressed with his work either


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## Xiu (Mar 29, 2016)

Bananas = proof of god






Can't argue with that!


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## KryptoBud (Mar 29, 2016)

Padawanbater2 said:


> But violent video games and rock music are to blame..
> 
> 
> 
> Did anyone even put forth the question that organized religion might have something to do with it when they were blaming pop culture for all of humanity's ills when you were coming up?


I think religion is a cancer to humanity. Why are there so many different ones around the world with each group believing their god can beat up your god. If you spend your whole life worshipping the wrong god what happens. Do you go to hell because you weren't born and raised in the right part of the world. maybe you can declare war to eliminate the people that worship the wrong god. As long as you're killing people in the name of your god you get a pass? How about this if theres a god why does the pope need a bullet proof car? Does he lack faith, or maybe he only uses it when gods off the clock or on vacation. Speaking of vacation god must be gearing up for another one so when you go to church on sunday don't forget your wallet god needs a loan. any left over will be used to defend or move the kid fuckers to another part of the country where their not known, for a fresh start, and new mouths to stick their dick in. Can I get an amen


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## GreenLogician (Mar 29, 2016)

Xiu said:


> Bananas = proof of god
> Can't argue with that!


Easy to argue with that, look at all these counter-arguments 
http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Banana_argument

In fact, Ray Comfort published a retraction video, after he learned that the modern banana was a creation of human domestication, and the wild banana is small and unpalatable.

“My apologies for not explaining myself more clearly. I was not aware that the common banana had been so modified through hybridization. However the truth remains that god gave man the knowledge and ability to modify it, so that it perfectly fit into his hand." - Comfort


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## Gregor Eisenhorn (Mar 31, 2016)

I consider myself to be a very spiritual person most of the time, who believes that just because you cannot see something, doesn't mean it isn't there...

On the other hand I am becoming more and more sceptical... it's kind of overwhelming me. A part of me keeps nagging at the loopholes in various religions... I do believe that when our ancestros were interpreting the world around them, the gaps and holes were filled by superstition. Why does the Sun travel AROUND the Earth? Well that's probably because some dudes flying in his chariot set ablaze on the sky.

Science won't "destroy" humanity with the weapons it helped build, but with the proof that gods cannot exist.

But shit, something keeps nagging me in my soul telling that faith is humanities fundamental right and because of thaat, something must exist in the vast void of space.


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## Wallstreeter43 (Mar 31, 2016)

KryptoBud said:


> I think religion is a cancer to humanity. Why are there so many different ones around the world with each group believing their god can beat up your god. If you spend your whole life worshipping the wrong god what happens. Do you go to hell because you weren't born and raised in the right part of the world. maybe you can declare war to eliminate the people that worship the wrong god. As long as you're killing people in the name of your god you get a pass? How about this if theres a god why does the pope need a bullet proof car? Does he lack faith, or maybe he only uses it when gods off the clock or on vacation. Speaking of vacation god must be gearing up for another one so when you go to church on sunday don't forget your wallet god needs a loan. any left over will be used to defend or move the kid fuckers to another part of the country where their not known, for a fresh start, and new mouths to stick their dick in. Can I get an amen


Let me get this straight . Because there are so many religions that means that there isn't one that contains the fullness of truth ? That doesn't logically follow .

How about this ? Man has been searching for God for thousands of years . The native Americans knew that there was a reality other then the natural world and other cultures have then looked deeper beyond just the spiritual realm for the creator of all reality .

Nde science has some pretty good evidence for the soul , the afterlife and even to some extent God.

The largest Nde study ever conducted passed peer review in 2014 into a respectable uk secular medical journal .

It's called the aware study headed by agnostic Nde expert dr Sam Parnia where a 57 year old patient had a veridical Nde for 3 minutes without a functioning brain .

If the brain creates consciousness as atheists want us to believe how does someone have full conscious awReness for 
3 full minutes without a functional brain .

Aware part 2 study has already started and if 3-5 patients see the day vital signs posted on the cieling during their cardiac arrest it will be world news , and it will be the behavior mining companies f the end of atheism.

Aware 2 is 4% done so it will take 2to 4 more years to finish minimum .

Watch for it 

Ndes are some of the best evidences for the soul and afterlife and even well known atheist philosopher john beloff begged his fellow atheists to just accept the reality of the soul and afterlife and try to find a natural explanation for them.

Atheist physicist sir Roger penrose already believes in the soul and afterlife and he has teamed up with another atheist scientist Stuart hameroff to try to prove their 
Micro tubule hypothesis .


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Mar 31, 2016)

Wallstreeter43 said:


> Let me get this straight . Because there are so many religions that means that there isn't one that contains the fullness of truth ? That doesn't logically follow .
> 
> How about this ? Man has been searching for God for thousands of years . The native Americans knew that there was a reality other then the natural world and other cultures have then looked deeper beyond just the spiritual realm for the creator of all reality .
> 
> ...


If there were scientific evidence for the existence of God, it would contradict faith

You are not supposed to *know*, you are supposed to *believe*, that's the point of having faith


----------



## GreenLogician (Mar 31, 2016)

Wallstreeter43 said:


> Nde science has some pretty good evidence for the soul , the afterlife and even to some extent God.
> The largest Nde study ever conducted passed peer review in 2014 into a respectable uk secular medical journal .
> It's called the aware study headed by agnostic Nde expert dr Sam Parnia where a 57 year old patient had a veridical Nde for 3 minutes without a functioning brain .
> If the brain creates consciousness as atheists want us to believe how does someone have full conscious awReness for
> 3 full minutes without a functional brain ..


--- The pseudoscience community has taken this study and run with it, misinforming millions of people. No evidence for a soul was found, what the whole misinformation scheme plays on is you having a poor understanding of what 'clinical death' means. That doesn't mean they had no brain function, it just means their heart is stopped.

The study did not show someone had 'full conscious awareness without a functioning brain'.
At best it shows that the brain can still make sensory memories while the heart is stopped.


----------



## GreenLogician (Mar 31, 2016)

Wallstreeter43 said:


> Atheist physicist sir Roger penrose already believes in the soul and afterlife and he has teamed up with another atheist scientist Stuart hameroff to try to prove theirMicro tubule hypothesis .


--- Citation please. As I understand it, Penrose's microtubule hypothesis is that some brain structures involved in large-scale neurological processes are small enough that quantum mechanics may play a role. That our brains might be quantum computers.

I think you've probably fallen for sensationalist articles exaggerating the truth again, like with Sam Parnia's work.


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## That One Stoner Guy (Mar 31, 2016)

Padawanbater2 said:


> If there were scientific evidence for the existence of God, it would contradict faith
> 
> You are not supposed to *know*, you are supposed to *believe*, that's the point of having faith


How do you KNOW which thousand year old book you should choose to worship


----------



## ThaiBaby1 (Mar 31, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> Some would ask me why only the semitic religions, I wouldsay bcz i will not worship cow or a sun or a man made religion.
> 
> So Jewish Christian and islam basically what I mean.


They all contradict each other, they can't all be true, But they can all be false.


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## GreenLogician (Mar 31, 2016)

Also, as far as the evidence shows, ALL religions are man made. Including Abrahamic religions.


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## Nyan Rapier (Mar 31, 2016)

Here's a Carl Sagan clip for your viewing pleasure.


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## Nyan Rapier (Mar 31, 2016)

Bubblegum31 said:


> Yes your father and mother were monkyes  looool


Our most recent common ancestor is no longer extant. No we're not descended from monkeys and biology has nothing to do with theology. Anyone who mentions it while talking about religion or lack of religion itches my brain.


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## Padawanbater2 (Mar 31, 2016)

That One Stoner Guy said:


> How do you KNOW which thousand year old book you should choose to worship


You can't know that, that's part of the problem


What kind of omnipotent being would require its subjects worship it anyway? If something exists that has the power to create the entire universe, why would it bother with caring what humans believe? 

I don't think it would, and if it did, I certainly wouldn't worship it because something with such a large ego can't be a god


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## Gregor Eisenhorn (Apr 1, 2016)

Padawanbater2 said:


> You can't know that, that's part of the problem
> 
> 
> What kind of omnipotent being would require its subjects worship it anyway? If something exists that has the power to create the entire universe, why would it bother with caring what humans believe?
> ...


It's for our own saftey, not to satisfy his/its ego. God wants humans to believe in him so they won't delve into an imoral path.


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## GreenLogician (Apr 1, 2016)

Religions teach adherents that they will delve into immoral paths if they leave the religion.
It's an entrapment scheme, convince people they are ill then sell them an imaginary remedy.
A temporary one they have to keep coming back for, tying you to belief.

(It's likely that only some religions were intentionally designed this way, but they basically all converge towards this effective psychological manipulation strategy, unintentionally, through adapting over time.)


----------



## KryptoBud (Apr 1, 2016)

Wallstreeter43 said:


> Let me get this straight . Because there are so many religions that means that there isn't one that contains the fullness of truth ? That doesn't logically follow .
> 
> How about this ? Man has been searching for God for thousands of years . The native Americans knew that there was a reality other then the natural world and other cultures have then looked deeper beyond just the spiritual realm for the creator of all reality .
> 
> ...


My thought was if there is a god, and now you have evidence of a magic man why are there so many versions. All completely different, and followers of whatever religion are killing each other over it since the beginning of time. Why? Happens every day still. Turn on the tv there people blowing themselves up or unloading ak47's at men women and children they never laid eyes on. Doesn't sound like anything im gonna worship. Then you watch the nightly and you hear Islamic militants or muslim extremeist. Think about that, they're nuts over there you agree? Then stop think the USA has been droppin billions of dollars worth of bombs on these people who live in mud homes and don't mean that to be disrespectful to the people there, and the USA claims they're the extremeists. Then when an American soldier dies serving his country you have protesters at his funeral The get away with it because they have civil rights given to them by the same soldiers they're wishing death upon. I don't know how any human being can see parents burying their child and yell,god hates you, thank god for dead soldiers, your sons going to hell. The Christians of the world have such compassion for their fellow man. Theres a common thread that is in all religion. That is none of them and their followers, that's the ability to mind their fuckin business. Let people live how they like, but they cant. Some how its their duty to save people make em repent. I think if two adult men wanna get married then spend the next week eating birthday cake outta each other ass wheres the problem, doesn't bother me, shouldn't bother you, or the pope himself. Its none of anybody's business. Same with prostitution, abortion, and doctor assisted suicide.


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## Gregor Eisenhorn (Apr 1, 2016)

People need to realise that culture is not the equivalent of religion. During the middle ages we would burn accused people at the stake, but nowadays we don't do that do we?


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## KryptoBud (Apr 1, 2016)

Gregor Eisenhorn said:


> It's for our own saftey, not to satisfy his/its ego. God wants humans to believe in him so they won't delve into an imoral path.


Like all the kid fuckers, let god and his followers clean up their house before worrying about mine.


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## Padawanbater2 (Apr 1, 2016)

Gregor Eisenhorn said:


> It's for our own saftey, not to satisfy his/its ego. God wants humans to believe in him so they won't delve into an imoral path.


Belief in God is not required to live a moral life


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## KryptoBud (Apr 1, 2016)

Gregor Eisenhorn said:


> People need to realise that culture is not the equivalent of religion. During the middle ages we would burn accused people at the stake, but nowadays we don't do that do we?


Now they decapitate people instead


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## Gregor Eisenhorn (Apr 1, 2016)

KryptoBud said:


> Now they decapitate people instead


Well yes, because their culture is fucking savage and imoral. But there's nothing about decapitating unbelievers in the bible. So once again religion isn't the problem, it's the stupid fucks that change the meaning to fit there own, sadistic means.



Padawanbater2 said:


> Very true, but that's another story, I was just answering the point about the ego.


----------



## Nyan Rapier (Apr 1, 2016)

Gregor Eisenhorn said:


> Well yes, because their culture is fucking savage and imoral. But there's nothing about decapitating unbelievers in the bible. So once again religion isn't the problem, it's the stupid fucks that change the meaning to fit there own, sadistic means.


Oh boy Old Testament time! 
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/nonchristians.html


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## Padawanbater2 (Apr 1, 2016)

Gregor Eisenhorn said:


> So once again religion isn't the problem, it's the stupid fucks that change the meaning to fit there own, sadistic means.


Bud, the problem is that people get to choose_ their own_ meaning today. Leaders of extremist factions pick and prey on the weakest among them to carry out the attacks that kill innocent people. Those with very little options in life who are already radicalized. These are the guys that carried out the 9/11 attacks. 

When you can interpret your own meaning, murdering 3,000 innocent people to _save_ the future generations of yours is a very easy choice to make for someone with nothing left to lose


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## Gregor Eisenhorn (Apr 1, 2016)

I love it when people search for the old testament to bak up the arguments. You do know that the Old Testament was created during a fucked up time were slavery and killing was considered a norm?

Anyway, ever since "the coming" of Jesus Christ christians no longer abide to the guidelines of the Old Testament, so those rules mean nothing to us anymore.


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## Padawanbater2 (Apr 1, 2016)

Gregor Eisenhorn said:


> I love it when people search for the old testament to bak up the arguments. You do know that the Old Testament was created during a fucked up time were slavery and killing was considered a norm?
> 
> Anyway, ever since "the coming" of Jesus Christ christians no longer abide to the guidelines of the Old Testament, so those rules mean nothing to us anymore.


Was the OT the word of God before Jesus returned?


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## KryptoBud (Apr 1, 2016)

Gregor Eisenhorn said:


> I consider myself to be a very spiritual person most of the time, who believes that just because you cannot see something, doesn't mean it isn't there...
> 
> On the other hand I am becoming more and more sceptical... it's kind of overwhelming me. A part of me keeps nagging at the loopholes in various religions... I do believe that when our ancestros were interpreting the world around them, the gaps and holes were filled by superstition. Why does the Sun travel AROUND the Earth? Well that's probably because some dudes flying in his chariot set ablaze on the sky.
> 
> ...


 Ifeel very similar but switched I do see whats around me and I know theres nothing out their. The reason theres so many religions and why each place on this earth has their own believes is..........no planes, trains, auto mobiles, no internet. news papers or mail. People had a small area they could travel, so each group has their own beliefs and that's it. Dont you think god would've got out the memo to all people all around the world, I mean he did create it all didn't he.


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## KryptoBud (Apr 1, 2016)

Gregor Eisenhorn said:


> I love it when people search for the old testament to bak up the arguments. You do know that the Old Testament was created during a fucked up time were slavery and killing was considered a norm?
> 
> Anyway, ever since "the coming" of Jesus Christ christians no longer abide to the guidelines of the Old Testament, so those rules mean nothing to us anymore.


Wow heres a problem with religion. The old testament was written at a fucked up. Killing and slavery were the norm, and it still is the today.
Old testament rules mean nothing to you anymore. So basically you edit it to suit your needs. Is it like top secret and classified documents that get releasd with every thing blacked out


----------



## KryptoBud (Apr 1, 2016)

Well yes, because their culture is fucking savage and imoral. But there's nothing about decapitating unbelievers in the bible. So once again religion isn't the problem, it's the stupid fucks that change the meaning to fit there own, sadistic means.[/QUOTE] Really?


----------



## KryptoBud (Apr 1, 2016)




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## GreenLogician (Apr 1, 2016)

Gregor Eisenhorn said:


> I love it when people search for the old testament to bak up the arguments. You do know that the Old Testament was created during a fucked up time were slavery and killing was considered a norm?
> Anyway, ever since "the coming" of Jesus Christ christians no longer abide to the guidelines of the Old Testament, so those rules mean nothing to us anymore.


It doesn't matter if you think we are still under the horrible rules of the OT (like where God says you can own slaves, and as long as they are foreigners, you can keep them forever and even beat them to death) or not under those rules anymore.

What matters is if you think those rules were given by a morally perfect being.

Either you think the God of the OT was evil, or you are approving of atrocities and calling it morally perfect.
Christianity loses whether we are still meant to be under the OT rules or not.


----------



## Wallstreeter43 (Apr 1, 2016)

Gregor Eisenhorn said:


> I consider myself to be a very spiritual person most of the time, who believes that just because you cannot see something, doesn't mean it isn't there...
> 
> On the other hand I am becoming more and more sceptical... it's kind of overwhelming me. A part of me keeps nagging at the loopholes in various religions... I do believe that when our ancestros were interpreting the world around them, the gaps and holes were filled by superstition. Why does the Sun travel AROUND the Earth? Well that's probably because some dudes flying in his chariot set ablaze on the sky.
> 
> ...


Gregor you need to research Nde science .
Pretty soon you won't need a lot of faith as science itself is very close to proving the afterlife .


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## That One Stoner Guy (Apr 1, 2016)

Smoke weed everyday is my religion. Also part scientologist


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 1, 2016)

Literal interpretations really mess sht up.


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## cannabineer (Apr 1, 2016)

eye exaggerate said:


> Literal interpretations really mess sht up.


 I read this while enthroned on the porcelain. I can aver that it is literally true. More paper!!


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## KryptoBud (Apr 1, 2016)

G


Wallstreeter43 said:


> Gregor you need to research Nde science .
> Pretty soon you won't need a lot of faith as science itself is very close to proving the afterlife .


Yes they are very, very, close


----------



## KryptoBud (Apr 1, 2016)

KryptoBud said:


> G
> 
> Yes they are very, very, close


APRIL FOOLS!!!!


----------



## ThickStemz (Apr 5, 2016)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Bud, the problem is that people get to choose_ their own_ meaning today. Leaders of extremist factions pick and prey on the weakest among them to carry out the attacks that kill innocent people. Those with very little options in life who are already radicalized. These are the guys that carried out the 9/11 attacks.
> 
> When you can interpret your own meaning, murdering 3,000 innocent people to _save_ the future generations of yours is a very easy choice to make for someone with nothing left to lose


What?

The guys that flew planes into buildings on 9/11 had college degrees, many PhDs.

They were well educated and solidly middle class.

This isnt a poverty problem.

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/akhwaja/media/madrassa/NYTimes.htm

Osama bin Laden left a life of wealth and privilege to live in a cave and dodge predator drones


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## Hazy_Nights.DC (Apr 6, 2016)

Yes and no..


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## VegasWinner (Apr 7, 2016)

I believe in people and the here and now. When I was 7 I questioned GOD's existence. I am still here not struck down by a thunderbolt. I accept and respect all people, plants, air, water, animals as equal to my own life. Peace
Namaste
Nam myoho renge kyo


----------



## TomIke (Apr 7, 2016)

Cut.Throat. said:


> Sure. I'm down. But once they start talking like 2000 year old stories are actually real I will turn it off. Stories are not proof.


Stories like the 13.8 billion year old 'Big Bang' theory.


----------



## TomIke (Apr 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The power of propaganda of 'society'...


Propaganda - that two-edged sword. Who's holding that sword?


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Apr 7, 2016)

TomIke said:


> Stories like the 13.8 billion year old 'Big Bang' theory.


Doesn't discuss the origin of humans

The big bang theory describes the origin of the universe and it has evidence that backs it up

The theory of god doesn't

The theory of evolution describes the diversity of life on planet Earth and it has evidence that backs it up

The theory of god doesn't


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## ttystikk (Apr 7, 2016)

TomIke said:


> Propaganda - that two-edged sword. Who's holding that sword?


'Authority', of course. Propaganda is the privilege of power, and of course the battleground of dissent.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 7, 2016)

Padawanbater2 said:


> They had these conversations amongst themselves and still came out on the wrong end, even as pot smoking hippies?


Yes, and I will not repeat their mistake.


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## Hazy_Nights.DC (Apr 7, 2016)

In physics, it's impossible.


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## Hazy_Nights.DC (Apr 7, 2016)

TomIke said:


> Propaganda - that two-edged sword. Who's holding that sword?


Malcolm Turnbull...!!!...??


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 8, 2016)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Doesn't discuss the origin of humans
> 
> The big bang theory describes the origin of the universe and it has evidence that backs it up
> 
> ...


Please provide, eh? The math breaks down at singularity.

"Science requests, "Give us one free miracle and we'll explain the rest." And the one free miracle is the appearance of all the matter and energy in the universe and all the laws that govern it from nothing at a single instant."


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## New Age United (Apr 8, 2016)

"Surely Allah is hearing, seeing, knowing, nigh " Muhammad
"It is not I but the father in me that does the works" JC
What the prophets were referring to as God was the true self, the burning bush, the Eternal Flame, the Light (Awareness).

The reason why the vast majority of people misinterpret the words and form an ideology of this singular supreme being is because the human mind can only think objectively so it naturally makes an object out of God.

What the prophets were referring to as God is very Real, it is You

You are aware of these words and there meaning, that is all the evidence you need to prove that you are real

Surely Allah is hearing, seeing, knowing, nigh

Yes the idea of God just as all ideas are figments of the imagination, they exist only in the mind.


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## VegasWinner (Apr 8, 2016)

New Age United said:


> "Surely Allah is hearing, seeing, knowing, nigh " Muhammad
> "It is not I but the father in me that does the works" JC
> What the prophets were referring to as God was the true self, the burning bush, the Eternal Flame, the Light (Awareness).
> 
> ...


This is the Buddhist understanding of a Supreme Being, it is you and I. The Buddha says, "I reveal the Buddha that resides abiding eternally. It is the eternal Self that has always existed." 

All life is equally endowed with the enlightened state of the Buddha, as The Buddha states there is no difference between you and I, other than I am Awake!


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Apr 8, 2016)

eye exaggerate said:


> Please provide, eh? The math breaks down at singularity.
> 
> "Science requests, "Give us one free miracle and we'll explain the rest." And the one free miracle is the appearance of all the matter and energy in the universe and all the laws that govern it from nothing at a single instant."


Redshift is a strong piece of evidence that supports the big bang theory


----------



## abalonehx (Apr 8, 2016)

All religion, dogma is...dogshit. All of the religions still practiced today are from the minds of ancient, barbaric primitive humans.
Gods were invented to explain the random, life & death struggle for survival... those early Syrian gods like Baal.
They believed he controlled the weather with lightning bolts in his grasp. Bad weather = bad crops = bad juju.
So, you must appease the god with blood sacrifice. But at least the people created an 'orderly' society in spite of
these silly superstitions. But that was like 100 A.D. Recently, ISIL(ISIS) destoyed most of the ancient ruins of Palmyra, Syria including their Temple of Baal. The legacy continues.
But for fuck's sake, it's 2016!


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## Chunky Stool (Apr 8, 2016)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Doesn't discuss the origin of humans
> 
> The big bang theory describes the origin of the universe and it has evidence that backs it up
> 
> ...


Big bang & evolution theories don't have a talking snake. 
Snap!
(dropping microphone)


----------



## Nugachino (Sep 24, 2016)

Hell no. The stories don't make sense. And they contradict each other in places.


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## Mr. Bongwater (Sep 24, 2016)

yea it makes about as much sense as santa claus, theres something out there but it aint jesus


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## GreenLogician (Sep 25, 2016)

eye exaggerate said:


> Please provide, eh? The math breaks down at singularity.
> 
> "Science requests, "Give us one free miracle and we'll explain the rest." And the one free miracle is the appearance of all the matter and energy in the universe and all the laws that govern it from nothing at a single instant."


It's actually only religious apologists who insist that if God didn't do it, it had to be a miracle of the universe coming from nothing.
It's just a plain lie to mislead people about the science, to build a straw man of the science and drive people away from it.

There are many speculative hypotheses about where everything came from beyond the extent of our knowledge about the big bang.
They are all far more rigorously checked for consistency with known physics, than 'god did it'.

A few of them have found ways that the universe could have come from a nothing-like state, no miracles required.
Don't believe that those are the only alternatives to goddidit. It's a lie.
Don't believe they require a miracle either - they are constructed out of physics as we currently understand it, extended in speculation beyond the current limits of the evidence.
Goddidit is not constructed out of any of the principles of physics, and it specifically violates many of them.

Going from 'I don't know', i.e. 'the math breaks down at the singularity' to 'it must have been magic' is classic theist fallacy town - projected onto science and scientists as a straw man.
It's your mistake claiming there's a miracle where the math of General Relativity breaks down, not the science's. 

Science doesn't say 'beyond that there's a miracle', it says 'we need to figure out how gravity fits in with quantum physics to investigate further back in time; we currently don't know the answer'.


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## Nugachino (Sep 25, 2016)

Yup. Just because science hasn't found definitive answers to such things. Doesn't mean skydaddy did it.

At least witth science. There's observable proof to what we claim. Rather than a book that was rewritten and translated however many times. With each translation slightly different from the last.

Basically. The bible is the oldest game of bullshit and chinese whispers combined.


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## DemonTrich (Sep 25, 2016)

Math and science are undeniable.


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## iHearAll (Sep 25, 2016)

the universe is a depiction of your imagination, which isnt real. so matter isnt real. only the experience is. and death and science and karma are in the experience. cheers! don't play the game


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## qwizoking (Sep 25, 2016)

i believes in god


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## Drowning-Man (Sep 25, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> i believes in god


Who do you call god, just curious


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## qwizoking (Sep 25, 2016)

Drowning-Man said:


> Who do you call god, just curious


myvspoiled brother that everyone likes more than me


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## Drowning-Man (Sep 25, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> myvspoiled brother that everyone likes more than me


Lol what about the flying spaghetti monster?


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## qwizoking (Sep 25, 2016)

Lol..
But I am a christian
I know , it seems odd and hypocritical


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## Grandpapy (Sep 25, 2016)

Ive seen the light.


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## Drowning-Man (Sep 25, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> Lol..
> But I am a christian
> I know , it seems odd and hypocritical


I'm a Christian but I'm backslidin I guess


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## GreenLogician (Sep 26, 2016)

What has convinced you that the supernatural claims of Christianity are true?


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 26, 2016)

GreenLogician said:


> It's actually only religious apologists who insist that if God didn't do it, it had to be a miracle of the universe coming from nothing.


That was the point of the McKenna quote, science asks for that one "miracle". You quantify the miracle by saying that science will eventually find the answer, and on and on into infinity. See how that works? It's the same as saying "it must be God".

You put everyone who believes that life was created into the same basket, and follow that up by saying that they must have the exact same mindset. If you are as scientifically minded as you portrait, you wouldn't do that because you know it isn't true.

Neither side can put a finger on it, so lets agree on that and move on - for now.


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## GreenLogician (Sep 26, 2016)

"science asks for that one "miracle""
--- No it doesn't. I just explained to you that it doesn't.

"You quantify the miracle by saying that science will eventually find the answer"
--- No I didn't, I said it's NOT claimed to be a miracle, and that science says they don't know the answer.

Why do you hear 'it was a miracle' when scientists actually say 'I don't know' ?
Why did you hear me say 'science will eventually find the answer' when I actually say 'science currently doesn't know the answer'.

"See how that works? It's the same as saying "it must be God"."
--- No! We say "I don't know".
You say "It must have been magic".
Just you. Not the science, not the scientists, not me, just you. Free yourself from the fallacy of the argument from ignorance. Learn to say "I don't know" without saying "therefore it must have been a miracle". Don't accept it was a miracle until the evidence points in that direction.

It's okay not to know.
It's okay to be honest that we haven't found the answer, and not pretend that we found the answer must have been a miracle. We haven't.

"You put everyone who believes that life was created into the same basket"
--- No, I talk to people who believe that in many different ways. Some that deny vast fields of science to maintain their fundamentalist religious beliefs, young Earth creationists, even some that are flat Earthers. 
And then, I meet believers who are totally reasonable, well educated, even scientists. There's a broad spectrum and I know it.

Pay attention to your surroundings harder and stop depending so much on stereotyping. All you see and hear is what you expect.

"Neither side can put a finger on it, so lets agree on that and move on - for now."
--- I wont stand idly by while silly claims go unaddressed, and I CAN put my finger on the error you're making, and that Terence McKenna was making there.

He didn't look into the science carefully enough.
He didn't bother to find out there are many naturalistic (no miracles) pre-big bang models.
He didn't even bother to find out that 'from nothing' is not the only such model.
He's never heard of eternal multiverse models of any variety, but I'm sure you have. Why didn't you think of them?

Why think everything must have come from nothing (by miracle or otherwise) if God doesn't exist?
That's not what the scientists are saying.


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## GreenLogician (Sep 26, 2016)

I don't believe there had to have been a miracle beyond the limits of what we know about the big bang.
I don't believe everything had to come from nothing.
I don't believe humans will eventually figure out all the currently remaining mysteries in nature.
Don't put words in my mouth.
The science and scientists don't say that either.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 26, 2016)

Here's the problem. I discuss in a figurative way, you do not seem to.

I didn't put words into your mouth, why would I do that? Makes no sense and is not appealing to me.

You (science) cannot describe pre big bang.

Others (creationists?) cannot describe pre big bang.

Using terms like "miracle" does not necessarily imply its dictionary definition.

This is the crux of my posts.

Best of luck. @GreenLogician


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## GreenLogician (Sep 27, 2016)

"You quantify the miracle by saying that science will eventually find the answer"
^ This is putting words in my mouth.

Why would you do that? I suspect it's something I see all the time in religious people.
People who know they believe things for bad reasons, will tell themselves everyone else does too.
It puts you at ease, so you semi-consciously straw man everyone to take an equally irrational, overconfident position... just like yours.

i.e., 'I may believe in fairies for no reason, but everyone else asserts absolute certainty that fairies are impossible... for no reason! So I'm not the only only with irrational beliefs, I'll feel okay to keep believing in fairies for no reason.'

You'd do that to tell yourself everyone else is just as unreasonable as you. To feel better about realizing your beliefs are unreasonable.
To avoid the rational path upon such a realization; abandoning those beliefs which you are very attached to and may even depend on, emotionally, socially, and psychologically.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 27, 2016)

"You"

Everything you wrote after that is putting words in my mouth, actions to my thoughts, and etc.

I'll give an example so you can _see_ it:

"You quantify the miracle by saying that science will eventually find the answer"
^ This is putting words in my mouth.

Why would you do that? I suspect it's something I see all the time in religious people.
People who know they believe things for bad reasons, will tell themselves everyone else does too.
It puts you at ease, so you semi-consciously straw man everyone to take an equally irrational, overconfident position... just like yours.

i.e., 'I may believe in fairies for no reason, but everyone else asserts absolute certainty that fairies are impossible... for no reason! So I'm not the only only with irrational beliefs, I'll feel okay to keep believing in fairies for no reason.'

You'd do that to tell yourself everyone else is just as unreasonable as you. To feel better about realizing your beliefs are unreasonable.
To avoid the rational path upon such a realization; abandoning those beliefs which you are very attached to and may even depend on, emotionally, socially, and psychologically.



We've arrived now at that hypocritical stage, your judgement is not sound and is full of assumptions. Bad scientist, bad!

Exit, stage left. @GreenLogician


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## GreenLogician (Sep 27, 2016)

Wrong wrong wrong!
You asserted falsehoods about science and about me.
I was ASKED why you might do something, and explicitly said what I proposed was merely a suspected explanation - not an asserted or accepted truth.

Pay closer attention.

You are still giving no defense to your claims about science, merely trying to insist that everyone who calls you out on your bullshit allegedly claims bullshit too, and is just as bad.

Is the 'you are being a hypocrite' card your only move? Because I'd really like you to support your claims instead of try to sidestep criticism with a lame discussion-stopping strategy; straw men and the tu quoque fallacy.


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## Fevs (Sep 27, 2016)

Believe in God and all that bollocks?

Do I F*CK!!!

Good luck to those who do, you can believe what you like, but I can too! 

I believe all forms of religion were created for mass mind control, needed more before television came out I'll add. Time has gone on, that idea is now back firing big time and left the world in a mess after countless wars for centuries and centuries!

Religion is one of the worlds biggest problems!

Good stuff from Jimmy car...






Even better stuff from George Carlin...






I also don't believe in Father Christmas.

Please I hope you religious people don't take offense to this. I don't mind if you want to believe in god or want to believe in make belief, I ask you not to mind what I believe! If possible...?


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## claypipe69 (Sep 27, 2016)

I believe that god was created by Big Brother to control the masses. by creating god & the devil they can dam you if you dont do what big brother wants you to do, simple you can go to Hell for not behaving. In the manner big brother wants. All Big Brother is, all man made religions. truth is mother nature is the leader of all thing in my universe anyway


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## Fevs (Sep 27, 2016)

Shame god didn't tell the Catholic priests that they can't rape/abuse children! Because everything can be forgiven in the 'eyes of the good lord' Catholic priests have a field day with the kids!

Even if I get kicked off the forum because of this thread, zero f*cks given!

Anybody that leaves their children in the hands of religious schools etc GOD SPEED! If they get abused it'll be your own fault!


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## iHearAll (Sep 27, 2016)

Fevs said:


> Shame god didn't tell the Catholic priests that they can't rape/abuse children! Because everything can be forgiven in the 'eyes of the good lord' Catholic priests have a field day with the kids!
> 
> Even if I get kicked off the forum because of this thread, zero f*cks given!
> 
> Anybody that leaves their children in the hands of religious schools etc GOD SPEED! If they get abused it'll be your own fault!


the true God wanted them raped apparently. God doesnt have to be anyone's friend. you're confusing good and god.


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## Fevs (Sep 27, 2016)

BTw When I was 6 years old I went to a methodist boarding school. Got raped, hypnotised, religious ritual abuse, tortured, terrorised, taken out my bed in the night and drugged! By a religious fanatic! The school is covering it up, they too are part of the peado ring!

Let me tell you 1st hand, get your kids away from church, religious school etc, scout groups run by religious people too.


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## Fevs (Sep 27, 2016)

iHearAll said:


> the true God wanted them raped apparently. God doesnt have to be anyone's friend. you're confusing good and god.


Well that says it all then dunnit! Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Did he also want them to kill babies and make shoes with their skin?


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## iHearAll (Sep 27, 2016)

Fevs said:


> Well that says it all then dunnit! Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Did he also want them to kill babies and make shoes with their skin?


apparently. dont you love god?


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## iHearAll (Sep 27, 2016)

i think its man's job to fight evil. not god's job to not be evil. god has to be everything even the destroyer of life


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## claypipe69 (Sep 27, 2016)

fuck man sorry what happend to you My brother went to catholic boarding school he copped it all round I missed out lucky me.  kama will catch up with the low life perps


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## Fevs (Sep 27, 2016)

There is no god to love. Unfortunately children get religion forced upon them as young as 2-3 years old! So what chance do religious people really have? It's not their fault! They can believe in all that bollocks, just at least let one generation 'your kids' choose for themselves whether they want to follow a faith, when they are old enough to do so.

I'm giving my kids £500 for every exam they pass for their gcse's. I'm giving them £500 for failing religion! They already know that it's a load of bollocks!

We are all still waiting for proof from god. There won't be any though will there! Same with father christmas...


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## Fevs (Sep 27, 2016)

iHearAll said:


> i think its man's job to fight evil. not god's job to not be evil. god has to be everything even the destroyer of life


Are you taking the piss or are you religious? Hard to tell


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## claypipe69 (Sep 27, 2016)

GOD has a lot to answer for allowing these scumbags actions


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## Fevs (Sep 27, 2016)

claypipe69 said:


> fuck man sorry what happend to you My brother went to catholic boarding school he copped it all round I missed out lucky me.  kama will catch up with the low life perps


Sorry to hear of that with your brother! I'd love to see % stats of child abuse survivors and abuse related suicide's. I reckon 9 out of 10 survivors were abused by religious people!


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## claypipe69 (Sep 27, 2016)

Fevs said:


> Sorry to hear of that with your brother! I'd love to see % stats of child abuse survivors and abuse related suicide's. I reckon 9 out of 10 survivors were abused by religious people!


Man I lived a different hell I hand an evil stepfather who was a overpowering perp I nearly Gassed myself when I was 12 instead I found the streets a safer place than home


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## iHearAll (Sep 27, 2016)

well that sucks^ is he dead now?


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## claypipe69 (Sep 27, 2016)

Yes he got what he deserved karma caught up with him bizzaro he believed in the devil & god weird ass perp


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## Fevs (Sep 27, 2016)

Life ain't always easy, but you came through it.


claypipe69 said:


> Man I lived a different hell I hand an evil stepfather who was a overpowering perp I nearly Gassed myself when I was 12 instead I found the streets a safer place than home



The shit things that happen to us when we're young make us better people. Like parenting skills. Compassion for other people with problems.

Example. My wife and I quit drinking alcohol, go on daytime dates whilst the kids are at school, don't leave them with babysitters. You may think that is boring, but my ptsd linked to child sex abuse is so severe, I'm willing to give up part of my social life to guarantee my 3 kids come through to 18 clear from the bad things in life, nice and safe and loved.

I also improve their life with my growing. It's enabled me to buy a sportscar and a campervan. We have a great life. I just did everything opposite to my own childhood. Can't fail then mate!


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## iHearAll (Sep 27, 2016)

claypipe69 said:


> Yes he got what he deserved karma caught up with him bizzaro he believed in the devil & god weird ass perp


confusing


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## claypipe69 (Sep 27, 2016)

Fevs said:


> Life ain't always easy, but you came through it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hear you I wouldnt let my son go for stay overs I would always go on school trips I was so paranoid he was only allowed to go surfing with a least 2 mates I found it hard to trust people who showed interest in him if they wernt his age I didnt even trust his uncle around him.

well his Mum had the same thing you had she was in a home from 3 to 16 it she got raped an passed around by the keepers. She was more over the top than I was. He is now 40 so job done without any trauma He is a mother nature follower strong believer in karma....You ar right it all makes us stronger ,,,,


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 27, 2016)

GreenLogician said:


> Wrong wrong wrong!
> You asserted falsehoods about science and about me.
> I was ASKED why you might do something, and explicitly said what I proposed was merely a suspected explanation - not an asserted or accepted truth.
> 
> ...


Your first comment:



GreenLogician said:


> It's actually only religious apologists who insist that if God didn't do it, it had to be a miracle of the universe coming from nothing.
> It's just a plain lie to mislead people about the science, to build a straw man of the science and drive people away from it.
> 
> There are many speculative hypotheses about where everything came from beyond the extent of our knowledge about the big bang.
> ...





Go back to my post, and show where I insinuated anything even closely related to the bolded type; nothing more, nothing less.

*you automatically assume that anyone who believes in some *form of immaterial *source falls into your category of theist - circumstancial ad hominem


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## GreenLogician (Sep 27, 2016)

eye exaggerate said:


> Your first comment:
> Go back to my post, and show where I insinuated anything even closely related to the bolded type; nothing more, nothing less.
> *you automatically assume that anyone who believes in some *form of immaterial *source falls into your category of theist - circumstancial ad hominem


Are you serious? You didn't say anything except exactly those bolded bits in your first message.
You: "Science requests, "Give us one free miracle and we'll explain the rest." And the one free miracle is the appearance of all the matter and energy in the universe and all the laws that govern it from nothing"
Me: "*Don't believe that those [from nothing-like models] are the only alternatives to goddidit. It's a lie."*

You: "The math breaks down at singularity. Science requests, "Give us one free miracle and we'll explain the rest."
Me: "*Going from 'I don't know', i.e. 'the math breaks down at the singularity' to 'it must have been magic'" + "It's your mistake claiming there's a miracle where the math of General Relativity breaks down, not the science's." + "Science doesn't say 'beyond that there's a miracle'"*

AND now you are going back to your typical and apparently only debate tactic- making up lies about your opponent.
It's getting worse and worse now, show me where the hell I said that anyone who believes in 'some form of immaterial source' is a theist??

You are trying to copy me, calling out bullshit. But you are failing and just making up everything you rebut.
You have expressed everything I've described.
I haven't expressed anything you've lied about me expressing.

You may be stuck and prevented from seeing the light, because of this doctrine you seem so firmly attached to - that everyone is equally rational, no matter what they believe. You appear to have been trained to attack other people whenever they question you, closing your eyes, blocking your ears, and just saying "You do that too!" to ignore criticisms, making up any lie about what they believe or have said just to change the subject from your claim's shortfalls.

Your turn. Go back to any of my posts and show me where I said anyone who believes in 'some form of immaterial source' is a theist.
Or where I said science will eventually solve all the mysteries of nature. Or anything you've pretended I said.

Then get over trying to use the tu quoque fallacy, and start supporting the truth of anything you've said about science.

Step 1: Assert falsehoods about science and people.
Step 2: When called out, tell more lies that those calling you out have said similar things and commit versions of the same errors.
Never address the errors you made.

^Getting sick of this strategy.


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## GreenLogician (Sep 27, 2016)

You: "*you automatically assume that anyone who believes in some *form of immaterial *source falls into your category of theist"
--- If this is what you are going to appeal to, you again didn't pay close attention to what I said, and only saw what you wanted to see:

Me: "Going from 'I don't know' [...] to 'it must have been magic' is classic theist fallacy town"

If this is where you think I said that anyone who believes in any form of immaterial source qualifies as a theist, you've made 2 serious mistakes in misreading this.
1. It's saying that committing a particular fallacy is a 'classic theist' thing, not belief in any type of immaterial source.
2. It's saying theists consistently commit this fallacy, but not that ONLY theists commit this fallacy.

For someone to _*commit this fallacy*_ (not 'believe in some form of immaterial source', that wasn't even mentioned), is not sufficient for them to qualify as a theist.
You need to believe in a god to qualify as a theist.
That fallacy is the most common reason for believing in gods, but that doesn't mean anyone who commits the fallacy therefore believes in gods.

Flying is a classic bird activity. Doesn't make you a bird if you fly.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 27, 2016)

GreenLogician said:


> Are you serious? You didn't say anything except exactly those bolded bits in your first message.
> You: "Science requests, "Give us one free miracle and we'll explain the rest." And the one free miracle is the appearance of all the matter and energy in the universe and all the laws that govern it from nothing"
> Me: "*Don't believe that those [from nothing-like models] are the only alternatives to goddidit. It's a lie."*
> 
> ...


Verbose.

Look, this is no strategy. You might enjoy being a strategist, might not, but I don't have to. Deal with that, please, and do not project your attitude.

The quote shows what you just posited, take it or leave it, you can't have both. When it is all boiled down there is no difference, and to say that science continues where god did it left off sounds like special pleading to me (call it what you will).

The immaterial reference was to show you that you do not know my state of mind regarding a *source. But you had it all figured out before I had the chance to say that I have a view that is outside of what you assume I have. A simple copy and paste will illustrate that. The crazy part is that you misinterpreted the quote, plain and simple, so the rest of the conversation was moot from go.

The the word "miracle" in the quote is not meant to be taken so literally, that's on you.


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## GreenLogician (Sep 27, 2016)

"do not project your attitude."
--- See, you are still doing it. Every message you are trying to project your flaws onto me, as I've been describing.
Now you are doing it again, trying to say that's what I'm doing too, as a distraction to ignore how you've been doing it.
You've done nothing else.

"to say that science continues where god did it left off sounds like special pleading to me (call it what you will)."
--- Who said that? Not me.

'I don't know' is what should continue beyond where scientific evidence stops.
'God did it' is often fallaciously inserted there instead. It should never be invoked until the evidence suggests it; an unsolved mystery is not evidence a god did it, nor is it a miracle.

"The the word "miracle" in the quote is not meant to be taken so literally, that's on you."
--- Where does McKenna say what he means?
How about that science says the universe must have come from nothing, is that meant to be taken literally?
Is anything in the quote meant to be taken at face value, or should we just imagine it says what you'd prefer it says?

What interpretation of the quote do you want to defend?


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## Fevs (Sep 28, 2016)

7am in England today and this thread has given me anxiety. I'm leaving this thread. I apologise if I upset anybody! People can believe in whatever faith/religion they want. Maybe religion takes the flack from me for the abuse I suffered. I am outspoken, loud and irritate the f*ck out of people sometimes. Make controversial comments, to the extent that it's a bad idea me being in this thread.

I have nothing else to say hear, except 'Claypipe69' Sounds like you did a really great job with parenting! Good on you and the mrs!

Over 'n' Out!


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 28, 2016)

GreenLogician said:


> "do not project your attitude."
> --- See, you are still doing it. Every message you are trying to project your flaws onto me, as I've been describing.
> Now you are doing it again, trying to say that's what I'm doing too, as a distraction to ignore how you've been doing it.
> You've done nothing else.
> ...


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## GreenLogician (Sep 28, 2016)

"Do I have to quote you verbatim to get the point across?"
--- If you are going to claim I've said something that I haven't said, and have been challenged on if I said that, yes.
I granted you the same right to see what was being paraphrased. Don't just claim I say science continues 'where god did it left off', when I'd never say anything like that.
God did it simply has no place, we aren't 'left off' at the end of the 'god did it' evidence for science to pick up the reigns - there's no god did it evidence. 

"from that quote you started this exchange based on what he didn't say."
--- That's absolutely backwards again, I went with precisely what he DID say, you are the one saying he didn't literally mean what he said.

You1: "The the word "miracle" in the quote is not meant to be taken so literally"
Me: "Where does McKenna say what he means?"
You2: "He doesn't."

You2 = you admitting that in You1 you were just making it up, based on what he didn't say.

And now you are accusing me of doing that. When that's exactly what you did, and exactly what I never did. I read what was written. 
At this point your pattern is so consistent, I'd put money on every message from here on including it.

"The overarching point here is that neither *side knows exactly what *was/is pre big bang."
--- Sure, neither side has discovered evidence for what was pre big bang. But not everyone is honest about that.

The secular science is honest about it being a speculative, unknown area.
Many religious people are asserting for bad reasons what the answer is. None have good reasons.

Many are even running around lying to the masses about science. 
I spend so much of my time working to counter misinformation about science that well funded religious preachers and organizations successfully spread to millions of people, stunting science education.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 29, 2016)

GreenLogician said:


> "Do I have to quote you verbatim to get the point across?"
> --- If you are going to claim I've said something that I haven't said, and have been challenged on if I said that, yes.
> I granted you the same right to see what was being paraphrased. Don't just claim I say science continues 'where god did it left off', when I'd never say anything like that.
> God did it simply has no place, we aren't 'left off' at the end of the 'god did it' evidence for science to pick up the reigns - there's no god did it evidence.
> ...


^ do you have a Facebook page dedicated to debunking pseudoscience by chance?

-

Let's go back to the beginning (yuk yuk)...

Pada’s quote: T_he big bang theory describes the origin of the universe and it has evidence that backs it up_


_Me: _Please provide, eh? The math breaks down at singularity. "Science requests, "Give us one free miracle and we'll explain the rest." And the one free miracle is the appearance of all the matter and energy in the universe and all the laws that govern it from nothing at a single instant."


You: It's actually only religious apologists who insist that if God didn't do it, it had to be a miracle of the universe coming from nothing. (Now, if I was into tactics I'd question your use of the word "nothing" right here... But that would add another unnecessary ellipse into this system, therefore, nonsensical - perhaps even unbalanced.)

It's just a plain lie to mislead people about the science, to build a straw man of the science and drive people away from it.

There are many speculative hypotheses about where everything came from beyond the extent of our knowledge about the big bang.

They are all far more rigorously checked for consistency with known physics, than 'god did it'.

A few of them have found ways that the universe could have come from a nothing-like state, no miracles required.

Don't believe that those are the only alternatives to goddidit. It's a lie.

Don't believe they require a miracle either - they are constructed out of physics as we currently understand it, extended in speculation beyond the current limits of the evidence.

Goddidit is not constructed out of any of the principles of physics, and it specifically violates many of them.

Going from 'I don't know', i.e. 'the math breaks down at the singularity' to 'it must have been magic' is classic theist fallacy town - projected onto science and scientists as a straw man.

^

It's your mistake claiming there's a miracle where the math of General Relativity breaks down, not the science's. 

Did I say that it is a miracle? Please quote were I wrote that, specifically, verbatim, also showing the intent that you've projected to the quote. Metaphor, period.

Science doesn't say 'beyond that there's a miracle', it says 'we need to figure out how gravity fits in with quantum physics to investigate further back in time; we currently don't know the answer'.


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## Shannon Alexander (Oct 11, 2016)

Hahahahahahahaa... No...


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## sallygram (Nov 30, 2016)

I do not believe, but when my car won't start I usually pray very loudly.


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## Drowning-Man (Dec 3, 2016)

Just ordered a kilo Yellow Cappi and 300G Brazilian Mimosa Hostiles Root bark, so will find out soon enough


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## ttystikk (Dec 3, 2016)

...but does he believe in us?


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## Olive Drab Green (Dec 3, 2016)

Drowning-Man said:


> Just ordered a kilo Yellow Cappi and 300G Brazilian Mimosa Hostiles Root bark, so will find out soon enough


I have 1lbs. of freshly chopped Hawaiian Rainbow Tree (Acacia confusa) root bark. I need to order more Syrian Rue.


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## iHearAll (Dec 3, 2016)

i have a tree and i dont even like tripping on DMT.


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## chillok (Dec 3, 2016)

Just found, this will be a good read. I vote yes. Be it Karma or God, I've had really lucky outcomes so many times in life. Too many to be random. I do good, I try, and it comes back to me. I want to believe it's someone or something tugging the strings..


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## Drowning-Man (Dec 3, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> I have 1lbs. of freshly chopped Hawaiian Rainbow Tree (Acacia confusa) root bark. I need to order more Syrian Rue.


Hawaii Acacia can suck my balls. Bet I know the vender.  You can keep your NMT Goo lol


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## Drowning-Man (Dec 3, 2016)

chillok said:


> Just found, this will be a good read. I vote yes. Be it Karma or God, I've had really lucky outcomes so many times in life. Too many to be random. I do good, I try, and it comes back to me. I want to believe it's someone or something tugging the strings..


Yeah can you hear the voice?


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## iHearAll (Dec 3, 2016)

I'm sure it's an extraterrestrial. Have you met Satan yet? Awful chum but explains God quite well.


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## ThaiBaby1 (Dec 3, 2016)

chillok said:


> Just found, this will be a good read. I vote yes. Be it Karma or God, I've had really lucky outcomes so many times in life. Too many to be random. I do good, I try, and it comes back to me. I want to believe it's someone or something tugging the strings..


Thats nice, I want to believe that I'm gonna win the lottery and screw all the Victoria's secret models.


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## Drowning-Man (Dec 3, 2016)

iHearAll said:


> I'm sure it's an extraterrestrial. Have you met Satan yet? Awful chum but explains God quite well.


No but I've meet his employees. Sadistic unpleasant mother fuckers. Ugly to


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## Sir Napsalot (Dec 3, 2016)

Do I believe in God... that's a helluva question. I believe I have a "soul" or "spirit", so I'm open to supernatural possibilities, but I don't believe the bible gets it right.


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## Drowning-Man (Dec 3, 2016)

I wonder if the little ones believe in God? Let me ask


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## chillok (Dec 3, 2016)

Drowning-Man said:


> Yeah can you hear the voice?


in a way yes.


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## chillok (Dec 3, 2016)

Drowning-Man said:


> I wonder if the little ones believe in God? Let me askView attachment 3845254


That fella sees things a little differently, but who knows right?


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## chillok (Dec 3, 2016)

ThaiBaby1 said:


> Thats nice, I want to believe that I'm gonna win the lottery and screw all the Victoria's secret models.


I'd be set with three or four, and the lottery.


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## iHearAll (Dec 3, 2016)

eye exaggerate said:


> ^ do you have a Facebook page dedicated to debunking pseudoscience by chance?
> 
> -
> 
> ...


gravity is in the electromagnetic spectrum. the sun is an electric charge, a sea of electrons, and the field we rotate upon is an equipotential line. an equipotential line if you remember in physics is the line where (k*q)/r=Voltage and r (radius) remains the same.


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## iHearAll (Dec 3, 2016)

also DNA is a piezoelectric discharge into time. the coding of it controls the discharge formation and in turn everything about each person becomes different by variable.


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## VietnameseBlackSativa (Dec 4, 2016)

I used to be an athiest. Then finding out that everything from NASA is bullshit and the whole Heliocentric Earth spinning globe model is a complete hoax. All of them discoverer's of science and mathematics (Pythagoras, Copernicus, Newton, Galileo etc) are all fukn Freemasons. Discovering about the Fibonaci seqeuence helped solidfy my belief in a creator. The Darwinian theory of evolution is bullshit. Richard Dawkins even admitted that he is no longer an athiest but an agnostic. Listen to Neil de grasse Tyson explaining his version pear shaped spinning earth. The guy is a lying ass crackpot, you have to be really gullible to believe his nonsense.


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## GreenLogician (Dec 9, 2016)

VietnameseBlackSativa, what you've bought into now is the bullshit, not the scientific consensus.
Everything from NASA is bullshit? Evolution is bullshit? Dawkins admitted that he is no longer an atheist? Tyson's own different 'version'?
Nothing you said is true, you've had twisted versions of partial truths and misrepresentations drilled into your head.
Try to support anything you said, you'll only be able to quote mine and lie in regards to Dawkins and Tyson, and you don't stand a chance of showing that evolution or 'everything from NASA' is bullshit.


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## VietnameseBlackSativa (Dec 13, 2016)

GreenLogician said:


> VietnameseBlackSativa, what you've bought into now is the bullshit, not the scientific consensus.
> Everything from NASA is bullshit? Evolution is bullshit? Dawkins admitted that he is no longer an atheist? Tyson's own different 'version'?
> Nothing you said is true, you've had twisted versions of partial truths and misrepresentations drilled into your head.
> Try to support anything you said, you'll only be able to quote mine and lie in regards to Dawkins and Tyson, and you don't stand a chance of showing that evolution or 'everything from NASA' is bullshit.


Ok bro, keep doing what you are doing. Whatever makes you happy. Didn't mean to intentionally offend you.


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## Don't Bogart (Dec 23, 2016)

I was born Catholic. Became a born-Again Christian. Now am a member of a Synagogue. It is my belief that God exists. But not in any shape,matter, or form that allows us to captivate God. The fact that so many cultures around the world came to there own conclusion that something beyond their comprehension watches over them gives pause as to whether we should so readily dismiss it.
When the time comes for the face to face revelation I think we will be disappointed at the simplicity while in awe of the magnitude of this entity.
I think most of what we base our beliefs on is magnified mythology. God exists but not held by any rules you find in a book.


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## GreenLogician (Dec 23, 2016)

Don't Bogart said:


> The fact that so many cultures around the world came to there own conclusion that something beyond their comprehension watches over them gives pause as to whether we should so readily dismiss it.


While I don't dismiss the conceivable possibility of a god out of hand, I don't find that something that indicates a god exists - humans are naturally clumsy thinkers in that aspect. It was an evolutionary advantage to make more false positives than false negatives. The former is when you presume agency for weak reasons and flee, wasting energy fleeing more often than not when you mistakenly infer agency. The latter is when you presume no agency, waiting for better evidence - in a predator environment making a mistake here leads to death, not merely wasted energy. So we are genetically predisposed to presume agency is behind something surprising to us, for bad reasons.

This is extensively tested, people are indeed clumsy at this, easily mistakenly presuming agency behind natural events.
The variety in the beliefs of "so many cultures around the world", presuming very different invisible agents are behind natural events, suggests it to be a result of clumsy thinking in agency detection.
Not that they actually have a reliable means of detecting such agents. Then they would all converge on the same answers.


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## abalonehx (Dec 23, 2016)

VietnameseBlackSativa said:


> I used to be an athiest. Then finding out that everything from NASA is bullshit and the whole Heliocentric Earth spinning globe model is a complete hoax. All of them discoverer's of science and mathematics (Pythagoras, Copernicus, Newton, Galileo etc) are all fukn Freemasons. Discovering about the Fibonaci seqeuence helped solidfy my belief in a creator. The Darwinian theory of evolution is bullshit. Richard Dawkins even admitted that he is no longer an athiest but an agnostic. Listen to Neil de grasse Tyson explaining his version pear shaped spinning earth. The guy is a lying ass crackpot, you have to be really gullible to believe his nonsense.


...And what made up nonsense do you believe?
An atheist is only one who doesnt believe this nonsense dogma because of its total lack of proof.
You can be an atheist AND agnostic. Please learn the definitions of the terms. Freemasons? Youve been listening to Alex Jones again havent you? NASA is an illuminati conspiracy too? lol, get the fuck outta here...spiritual numerology is also bunk... ok, I know the real truth is all being supressed by the lizard people...
and its Atheist not athiEST


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## abalonehx (Dec 23, 2016)

Don't Bogart said:


> I was born Catholic. Became a born-Again Christian. Now am a member of a Synagogue. It is my belief that God exists. But not in any shape,matter, or form that allows us to captivate God. The fact that so many cultures around the world came to there own conclusion that something beyond their comprehension watches over them gives pause as to whether we should so readily dismiss it.
> When the time comes for the face to face revelation I think we will be disappointed at the simplicity while in awe of the magnitude of this entity.
> I think most of what we base our beliefs on is magnified mythology. God exists but not held by any rules you find in a book.


-The fact that so many religions and cultural interpretations exist for a "God" or Creator only suggests that those ideas are creations of man's mind effected by his surroundings, Not of any higher knowledge. And of course a total lack of evidence for any of the claims.
-"When the time comes..." = "Pascal's Wager"
-"God exists but not held by any rules..." = "Special Pleading"
Reasoning Failure.


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## Don't Bogart (Dec 24, 2016)

Philosophy falls hard when it try to justify logic with your intelligence. To basically say there is no god is to say we define the absoluteness of where intelligence can go. Nothing is smarter than us! 
That said, just in case... Nothing is smarter than Them!!!


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## Nugachino (Dec 24, 2016)

Fairytales are for the feeble minded.


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## PCXV (Dec 24, 2016)

Something may be smarter than us, but there is no proof god exists. Science has destroyed the credibility of most religious doctrine.


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## GreenLogician (Dec 24, 2016)

Don't Bogart, can you expand on your first sentence?

"Philosophy falls hard when it try to justify logic with your intelligence."
--- What do you mean 'justify logic'? The logical validity of a line of reasoning is justified by comparing it to a standard, not just assuming that since we are intelligent by nature, it must be right.

"To basically say there is no god is to say..."
--- Philosophy doesn't say that. Clarify please.


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## Don't Bogart (Dec 25, 2016)

Yah gotta be careful whatcha type when yer stoned....
One of the strange things about our ability to reason is that it is finite. We can be one dimensional -" I'm right. Your wrong. That's it!"
Two- " I believe I'm right but I need to hear you out. I'm willing to listen." Three" I'm not sure if your right or if I am. Maybe it's something in between."
These are very simple examples. 


> GreenLogician"To basically say there is no god is to say..."
> --- Philosophy doesn't say that. Clarify please.


I mean in justifying logic, this is very generalized, that some scientists and philosophers do believe there is no god and have said so. But were not smart enough to then go throw out the baby with the bathwater. Religion itself has done so much damage to a belief in a god that no wonder people like


> Nugachino " Fairytales are for the feeble minded."


 see it as a waste of time to have a faith. 
I believe in a supreme being. Maybe that being is fallible. Won't admit it. But is very sorry for the mess created. Kinda like the wizard in the Wizard of OZ.
Try this.
https://www.ted.com/talks/stephen_hawking_asks_big_questions_about_the_universe

Doesn't answer anything about God. But I'll use it as a distraction until I get straight. I"ll pencil in a time maybe by March. To follow up with my thoughts.

Oh one more thing. I'll give you an example of a belief in a philosophy that went horribly wrong for one person.
Ian Rand developed Objectivism. You may remember she wrote "Atlas Shrugged". One of her greatest admirers was Alan Greenspan. He so believed in her philosophy that he felt that Wall Street did not need to be regulated. That Wall Street would regulate itself.


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## KryptoBud (Dec 25, 2016)

If there's a god why are there so many versions? Why does each religion have it's own set of rules? If god created life and a set of rules to follow wouldn't you think everyone would've been given the same handbook? God created the world, the heavens and the sea in six days. If he knows all and see's all why are there churches and why do they need cash all the time? Certainly the creator of all must have a solid line of credit. I think it's to keep the pedophiles safely moving around the world while preaching how masterbation is a sin. Then there's all the so called miracles. He walk on water and turn water into wine which sounds pretty impressive doesn't it? If you think about it why with all the miracle's he performed did three nails pose such a problem? He could've ordered up some rain to rust them out or lightning bolts to cut him free. Three nails ended this supreme being? Sounds like bullshit to me, but I'll gladly accept paid holidays in his name.


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## ThaiBaby1 (Dec 25, 2016)

Don't Bogart said:


> I was born Catholic. Became a born-Again Christian. Now am a member of a Synagogue. It is my belief that God exists. But not in any shape,matter, or form that allows us to captivate God. The fact that so many cultures around the world came to there own conclusion that something beyond their comprehension watches over them gives pause as to whether we should so readily dismiss it.
> When the time comes for the face to face revelation I think we will be disappointed at the simplicity while in awe of the magnitude of this entity.
> I think most of what we base our beliefs on is magnified mythology. God exists but not held by any rules you find in a book.


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## GreenLogician (Dec 25, 2016)

Don't Bogart, *"I mean in justifying logic, this is very generalized, that some scientists and philosophers do believe there is no god and have said so. But were not smart enough to then go throw out the baby with the bathwater."
*
Some do- what's the baby here?
God is the bathwater, when they believe there is no god they are throwing out the bathwater, but what's the baby you think they would throw out too if they were smart enough?
(Logic? Why would someone throw that out in taking the position of strong atheism?)

Me: *"Philosophy doesn't say that. Clarify please."
---* If you want to classify this in your three dimensions scale, it was 2; I believe I'm right but am willing to hear you out and maybe be surprised.

*"Some scientists and philosophers do believe there is no god and have said so."*
--- Now this, I can agree with. It's just not the same as saying that philosophy and science says there is no god


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## iHearAll (Dec 25, 2016)

derrrrrrrrrrrrr


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## iHearAll (Dec 25, 2016)

dude, saying there is no God defies the power of God. Clearly you win! bakashaka bakashaka bakashaka shaka,shaka,shaka,shaka


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## GreenLogician (Dec 25, 2016)

iHearAll said:


> dude, saying there is no God defies the power of God. Clearly you win! bakashaka bakashaka bakashaka shaka,shaka,shaka,shaka


Can you help me understand what you mean?
If saying that would defy the power of god, then humans couldn't say it, right?
So if God exists, humans shouldn't be able to say that?
So since we can say that, God does not exist?
Help me out with following your reasoning there


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## KryptoBud (Dec 25, 2016)

Don't Bogart said:


> Yah gotta be careful whatcha type when yer stoned....
> One of the strange things about our ability to reason is that it is finite. We can be one dimensional -" I'm right. Your wrong. That's it!"
> Two- " I believe I'm right but I need to hear you out. I'm willing to listen." Three" I'm not sure if your right or if I am. Maybe it's something in between."
> These are very simple examples.
> ...


As a christian you don't believe the use of cannabis is a sin? It seems people want to cherry pick the rules to follow. They'll follow rules that don't infringe to much on their life. Look at the difference in the o.t. and the n.t. Eating seafood was forbidden, an abomination until people realized how tasty it is. Planting seeds from different crops in the same field was a sin according to the old testament. Here's an interesting one being gay is a sin and god hates sin, but god doesn't hate gays. How's that work? Sound's like some PC double talk to me. As time goes on more and more rules change or are explained away with bs. Do people believe a supreme being, creator of all needs to have the rules revamped every thousand years or so? 


Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (_Galatians 5:19-21_)

So, where are the drugs mentioned in this verse? Actually, the word translated "sorcery" is the Greek word pharmakeia, from which we get the English word "pharmacy." The primary meaning is "the use or the administering of drugs" (usually associated with sorcery or idolatry). Since this verse comes from a list of things that, if practiced, would preclude one from heaven, this should be a reasonably strong suggestion that the Christian should not practice drug use. In addition, the book of Revelation lists drug use as one of the things for which the unrepentant will suffer the wrath of God.

The Bible has a lot to say about alcohol. In biblical times, there was no hard (distilled) liquor—just wine and beer (which was more diluted at that time than it is now). Even so, the Bible has much to say about people who used wine to get drunk. One was Lot, who got drunk and slept with his daughters. Others sold girls to get wine to get drunk. The Bible warns about the bad effects of drunkenness—seeing strange sights and being confused, saying stupid things, making poor decisions, vomiting, getting involved in fights, and losing one's wealth. We are warned not to join with those people. The consequences of such behavior is judgment. Jesus Himself used two examples of those who will be drunk when God comes to judge the world. God's judgment of such behavior does not paint a pretty picture. The New Testament condemns drunkenness and warns that those who engage in that behavior will not inherit the kingdom of God (i.e., heaven).

The Old Testament warns the priests not to go into God's house drunk, or they will die. In the New Testament, those who serve in the body of Christ are not to be addicted to wine or any other sordid thing. Even those who do not directly serve in the church are warned not to be addicted to wine. Finally, the New Testament commands us to not get drunk, but be filled with the Spirit of God:

Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. (_Ephesians 5:18_)

Does marijuana get one intoxicated? Even proponents of marijuana usage encourage users never to drive a motor vehicle while using marijuana. Why is this? Because when one use marijuana, one is legally intoxicated and incapable of clear thinking and reasonable reactions. Being intoxicated is clearly condemned in scripture. So, if one uses drugs or anything else to escape and get high, or is addicted to these substances, it is against the commands of scripture and inappropriate for Christian participation.


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## bict (Dec 25, 2016)

I don't believe in fairytales.


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## iHearAll (Dec 25, 2016)

naw shit you dont believe in fairy tales.


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## iHearAll (Dec 25, 2016)

GreenLogician said:


> Can you help me understand what you mean?
> If saying that would defy the power of god, then humans couldn't say it, right?
> So if God exists, humans shouldn't be able to say that?
> So since we can say that, God does not exist?
> Help me out with following your reasoning there


well that is one arguement. the counter argument is free will by god design. after all, what would the point be in having an entity that controlled everything including itself need to make things that gave a hoot about it. its counter intuitive to be the creator of all and require respect or anything. obviously it may force it out of a huge population in a given time frame.


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## Rundskop (Dec 29, 2016)

Suspending one's judgement is not practiced enough anymore. 

Extraordinary claims such as there being a god/creator need to be considered under great scrutiny, before a commitment is made to it's certainty. 

You must agree on the definition of the term "god" before initiating discussion. If someone believes there is such an entity, and cannot openly accept the proposal of evidence to the contrary, then there is no need for a discussion at all. 

The burden of proof is on the one making the bold claim, and therefore should be followed with appropriate evidence. Until that is provided one should, at the very least, suspend judgement.


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## thump easy (Dec 29, 2016)

As a christain i have an afair with the devil in my garden of the forbiden fruit if i was sick it be justified but to indulge in thoughts sometimes their great but the voices and though of the enemie come piecing in making you drift away sinfully urges and plots of wealth bla bla bla. Ya man were fucked! Lolz


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## ThaiBaby1 (Dec 30, 2016)




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## iHearAll (Jan 2, 2017)




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## Karah (Jan 26, 2017)

I'm sure there is a higher power existing infinitely in the universe, but it is not Jesus Christ. _That_ book is a story to help people cope with life and dying.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 26, 2017)

KryptoBud said:


> So, where are the drugs mentioned in this verse? Actually, the word translated "sorcery" is the Greek word pharmakeia, from which we get the English word "pharmacy." The primary meaning is "the use or the administering of drugs" (usually associated with sorcery or idolatry). Since this verse comes from a list of things that, if practiced, would preclude one from heaven, this should be a reasonably strong


So, if a person does not commit sorcery or practice in magical arts,, then they are not commiting a sin?
such as if a person drinks but doesnt get drunk, then they are not commiting a sin,, it appears the verses are suggesting if a person smokes weed and then kicks back and hangs out with his lawfully wedded wife,, then its cool,, because your have not lost "self control"
*5331*_pharmakeía_ (from _pharmakeuō_, "administer drugs") – properly, drug-related sorcery, like the practice of magical-arts, etc. (A. T. Robertson).


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## KryptoBud (Jan 26, 2017)

Karah said:


> I'm sure there is a higher power existing infinitely in the universe, but it is not Jesus Christ. _That_ book is a story to help people cope with life and dying.


I think it was a way to control people, extort money from people, an excuse to kill people, and pedophiles seem to be attracted to the church. Gives me the creeps.


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## ThaiBaby1 (Jan 26, 2017)

KryptoBud said:


> I think it was a way to control people, extort money from people, an excuse to kill people, and pedophiles seem to be attracted to the church. Gives me the creeps.


Its also a crutch for people, I prefer drugs.


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## KryptoBud (Jan 26, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> So, if a person does not commit sorcery or practice in magical arts,, then they are not commiting a sin?
> such as if a person drinks but doesnt get drunk, then they are not commiting a sin,, it appears the verses are suggesting if a person smokes weed and then kicks back and hangs out with his lawfully wedded wife,, then its cool,, because your have not lost "self control"
> *5331*_pharmakeía_ (from _pharmakeuō_, "administer drugs") – properly, drug-related sorcery, like the practice of magical-arts, etc. (A. T. Robertson).


The point is the way religious rules and regulations have been changed over time. Look at the bullshit that is considered sin in the o.t. like eating pork or shellfish. A man can only marry a virgin, not a divorced or widowed woman. If people truly believed that's gods word people wouldn't eat bacon or shrimp no matter how tasty it is. Unfortunately for god pork tastes good so they needed to update the rules with the new testament. I find it all to be bullshit. I don't believe in sin personally, but if I did the biggest sin would be religion of all kinds.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 26, 2017)

you have some good logic and knowledge of the bible for someone who doesnt believe,, did your grandparents drag you to vacation bible school as a kid?


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 27, 2017)

*LISTEN TO THIS ^*


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## ThaiBaby1 (Jan 28, 2017)

LISTEN TO THIS! ^^^


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## ThaiBaby1 (Jan 28, 2017)

AND THIS!


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 28, 2017)

ThaiBaby1 said:


> LISTEN TO THIS! ^^^


When did God get into this ?


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 30, 2017)




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## vapeflame (May 27, 2017)

No, i don´t, the world is too awful. I already did read that god, and his two inheritors were reincarnated.


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## HeatlessBBQ (May 27, 2017)

I went to the store and met this guy...
He was wearing *red* and *yellow*.

He seemed hungry


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## Diana Gordon (Jun 1, 2017)

Obviously yes! If there is no God then who created the universe so perfect? The perfect distance of earth from sun and other planets, the perfect position of land, sea and air? Also, who decides that this or that particular soul will be born to such and such family(maybe rich or poor family). What about karma? What decides he/she should be granted now and he/she should be punished now? Think!


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## Chunky Stool (Jun 1, 2017)

Diana Gordon said:


> Obviously yes! If there is no God then who created the universe so perfect? The perfect distance of earth from sun and other planets, the perfect position of land, sea and air? Also, who decides that this or that particular soul will be born to such and such family(maybe rich or poor family). What about karma? What decides he/she should be granted now and he/she should be punished now? Think!


You really don't know much about nature. 
Or science.
Hell I bet you don't even know much about God & religion...


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## Diana Gordon (Jun 2, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> You really don't know much about nature.
> Or science.
> Hell I bet you don't even know much about God & religion...


I have spent my childhood in India, the place of religion. I know far better than you. So, don't challenge me! Talking about nature and science well I did my studies from India only and know far better than you!


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## dagwood45431 (Jun 2, 2017)

Diana Gordon said:


> Obviously yes!


No. Not at all.


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## dagwood45431 (Jun 2, 2017)

Diana Gordon said:


> I have spent my childhood in India, the place of religion.


Hey everyone, Diana spent her childhood in India. Clearly, she is the expert on the existence of gawd. Please just accept it and move on.


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## Chunky Stool (Jun 2, 2017)

Diana Gordon said:


> I have spent my childhood in India, the place of religion. I know far better than you. So, don't challenge me! Talking about nature and science well I did my studies from India only and know far better than you!


Your arrogance is ironic and says a lot about you as a person.


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## sonson176 (Jun 2, 2017)

Believing Sesame Street is real and worshipping Elmo would be easier for me; I don't think anyone has ever killed in the name of Elmo. Or been hung for not taking him seriously. 

He seems like an all around good guy. 


Come on now. 

Gods for dummies, bananas are for monkeys, and religion is a tax free business. 

Go on, go get your double Jesus burger. Cheese, no pickles.


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## Diana Gordon (Jun 3, 2017)

dagwood45431 said:


> Hey everyone, Diana spent her childhood in India. Clearly, she is the expert on the existence of gawd. Please just accept it and move on.


I like your sarcasm  


Chunky Stool said:


> Your arrogance is ironic and says a lot about you as a person.


Haha! Sorry  Got a little offended there. No fights


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## Chunky Stool (Jun 3, 2017)

Diana Gordon said:


> Haha! Sorry  Got a little offended there. No fights


Why would you think I'm offended? Don't flatter yourself...


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 3, 2017)

Diana Gordon said:


> Obviously yes! If there is no God then who created the universe so perfect? The perfect distance of earth from sun and other planets, the perfect position of land, sea and air? Also, who decides that this or that particular soul will be born to such and such family(maybe rich or poor family). What about karma? What decides he/she should be granted now and he/she should be punished now? Think!


What do you mean by "the universe so perfect"? The known universe is absolutely hostile to life. The only place we know harbors life is Earth. 99.999999% of the rest of the known universe cannot support life as we know it. 

Life evolved _after_ Earth. Life is suited to Earth, Earth is not suited to life. 

Who will be borne into which family is completely random chance. Henry VIII was born into royalty while Gandhi was born into Indian poverty. Many other examples exist that refute the idea of divine royalty. 

'Karma' is a key concept in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, and Taoism. _Not_ Christianity. 

Judicial law decides who should be punished.


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## dagwood45431 (Jun 3, 2017)

Diana Gordon said:


> Obviously yes! If there is no God then who created the universe so perfect? The perfect distance of earth from sun and other planets, the perfect position of land, sea and air? Also, who decides that this or that particular soul will be born to such and such family(maybe rich or poor family). What about karma? What decides he/she should be granted now and he/she should be punished now? Think!


Classic watchmaker, bullshit. Tedious.


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## NanoGadget (Jun 6, 2017)

Nope.


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## Olive Drab Green (Jun 6, 2017)

NanoGadget said:


> Nope.


Question Two: Have you ever done Ayahuasca, Peyote, or 5+ grams of Mushrooms?


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## NanoGadget (Jun 6, 2017)

No (but I've done DMT), yes, and yes.


Olive Drab Green said:


> Question Two: Have you ever done Ayahuasca, Peyote, or 5+ grams of Mushrooms?


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## Olive Drab Green (Jun 6, 2017)

NanoGadget said:


> No (but I've done DMT), yes, and yes.


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## GreenLogician (Jun 9, 2017)

Diana Gordon said:


> Obviously yes! If there is no God then who created the universe so perfect? The perfect distance of earth from sun and other planets, the perfect position of land, sea and air? Also, who decides that this or that particular soul will be born to such and such family(maybe rich or poor family). What about karma? What decides he/she should be granted now and he/she should be punished now? Think!


Diana, asking a 'who' question doesn't mean there has to be a 'who' answer.
Who created God? Who made God so perfect?
Does asking this question show that God was created? No, the answer might be 'nobody, that's not where God comes from'.
Likewise, asking who put the Earth in the particular orbit, or who chooses which sperm fertilizes an egg, erroneously presumes a conscious being in there manipulating these processes. We have good understandings of these processes, and they don't involve a conscious being like that.


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## Drowning-Man (Jun 9, 2017)

GreenLogician said:


> Diana, asking a 'who' question doesn't mean there has to be a 'who' answer.
> Who created God? Who made God so perfect?
> Does asking this question show that God was created? No, the answer might be 'nobody, that's not where God comes from'.
> Likewise, asking who put the Earth in the particular orbit, or who chooses which sperm fertilizes an egg, erroneously presumes a conscious being in there manipulating these processes. We have good understandings of these processes, and they don't involve a conscious being like that.


"I knew you before i formed the earth"
I believe in God but im starting to believe he doesnt care


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## ThcGuy (Jun 16, 2017)

Exodus 22:18 prescribes "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live".

Really a fucking witch! Kinda makes me wonder how this shit caught on at all! I think god is about as real as zombies, vampires and werewolves.


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## Enigma (Jun 17, 2017)

Giordano Bruno; before him, Nicolaus Copernicus; during and after him, Galileo.


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## CaptainZack (Jun 17, 2017)

i saw a theory on the Simpsons or some other ... no a film ! erm got morgan freeman in .... anyways it was a theory that there is no god, and he explained something to do with evolution of thought neurons instead was the beginning ... which shit me.


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## gg2 (Aug 5, 2017)

Pinworm said:


> If you're happy and you know it


I'll say Amen


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## Hazy_Nights.DC (Aug 9, 2017)

Flaw...of Grim.


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## Moldy (Aug 9, 2017)

tortie said:


> Quick Poll!!


Absolutely... NOT!


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## dagwood45431 (Aug 9, 2017)

Moldy said:


> Absolutely... NOT!


Please. Don't equivocate! How do you really feel?


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## Moldy (Aug 9, 2017)

dagwood45431 said:


> Please. Don't equivocate! How do you really feel?


Spiritually great since I don't have a buzz kill sky fairy to worry about. I have more fear of living creatures that threaten my way of life like 1. Our president. 2. Steroid ridden cops 3. Rabid animals.


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## RoseGarden79 (Aug 27, 2017)

sub-zero234 said:


> damn this is sad...I will pray for all of you...may all of you find jesus Christ, our lord and saviour


I'll think for you


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## abalonehx (Aug 27, 2017)

God is an enigma, wrapped in a riddle, wrapped in a candy wrapper,
wrapped in a used maxi pad in the guilt and fear of Mankind's subconscious....
and should be tossed in the garbage bin of our history.


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## Tim Fox (Sep 4, 2017)

so if you dont believe in GOD ,, then you believe we really crawled out of the ocean, squirmed on land, somehow survived, then formed male and female, the formed differant species>>? and whala here we are?


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## tstick (Sep 4, 2017)

If God was the precipitator of the Big Bang and then once the bang happened, God became everything in the universe, then, yeah, I could go for that definition of God. The Bible and any other man-made doctrines, though?....no. I don't believe in any of that.


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## Tim Fox (Sep 4, 2017)

tstick said:


> If God was the precipitator of the Big Bang and then once the bang happened, God became everything in the universe, then, yeah, I could go for that definition of God. The Bible and any other man-made doctrines, though?....no. I don't believe in any of that.


thats what i tell people,,,, god said,, begin and BANG,,, it all started,, hence the big bang


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## tstick (Sep 4, 2017)

But...beyond that, I don't think there remains a conscious being who is presiding over the creation. I believe in God as a word to describe the "thing" that set off the course of events that happened (and is still happening). I don't use it to name a conscious, man-like super being who sits in judgement.


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## Tim Fox (Sep 4, 2017)

tstick said:


> But...beyond that, I don't think there remains a conscious being who is presiding over the creation. I believe in God as a word to describe the "thing" that set off the course of events that happened (and is still happening). I don't use it to name a conscious, man-like super being who sits in judgement.


only judges those who dont believe


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## tstick (Sep 4, 2017)

I don't believe that.


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## GreenLogician (Sep 4, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> so if you dont believe in GOD ,, then you believe we really crawled out of the ocean, squirmed on land, somehow survived, then formed male and female, the formed differant species>>? and whala here we are?


Tim, that's got nothing to do with believing in God or not. That's about understanding science.
Most theists understand evolution happened - creationism is a very small, fringe part of theism.
Even within just Christianity, most Christians accept evolution - about 55% of all Christians. (And 99.998% of all biologists, many of which are believers)


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## GreenLogician (Sep 4, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> only judges those who dont believe


I don't believe because all the theists I've talked to about why they believe, believe for bad reasons. 
That's nothing I should be punished for, because it's no fault of my own that I don't believe - I've seeked good reasons, nobody has any. It's all faith-based, and I'm skeptically minded.


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## jonsnow399 (Sep 4, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> so if you dont believe in GOD ,, then you believe we really crawled out of the ocean, squirmed on land, somehow survived, then formed male and female, the formed differant species>>? and whala here we are?


Of course not, thats silly! Everyone knows the Flying Spaghetti Monster flew over the Earth 6000 years ago and shit us out.


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## GreenLogician (Sep 4, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> crawled out of the ocean, squirmed on land, somehow survived, then formed male and female


Firstly, sexual reproduction (male and female) evolved way, way before that - in single celled organisms. It was inherited by all animals and plants (although some reverted to asexual reproduction), so must have evolved before either group arose - in their common ancestors.
It's not a sudden change either, there are a range of intermediate phases which don't quite count as sexual reproduction yet. e.g. There are still single celled organisms which reproduce asexually but also trade some genes with their neighbors in the process.

Okay, "Somehow survived"? You shouldn't be surprised, there are still things like mudskippers or lungfish that can do it now. They have adaptations for it, like strong shoulder bones and muscles for moving about, and lungs.
So did ancient primitive tetrapods, for which we have many transitional fossils showing the progression of these adaptations: Eusthenopteron, panderichthys, tiktaalik, icthyostega, acanthostega and many more.

"then formed male and female" 
So they were already male and female, and living in a world with lots of male and female life. What was the next big adaptation relative to sexual reproduction?
The amniotic egg. Before this adaptation, those early tetrapods had to return to the water to lay eggs - the eggs weren't sealed in a case enough to survive on land. This greatly restricted how far they could spread, to areas nearby large water sources. 
The amniotic egg allowed tetrapods to spread far inland, going generations with only enough water available to drink.


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## Jimdamick (Sep 4, 2017)

There has to be a God as written in the Bible, which all sane white men use for a reference, right?
You see, if there is a God, therefore there has to be a Satan, right?
We have Trump as our President, and if there is any proof needed that there is pure fucking evil in this world, there it is.
So yes, there is a God, and it seems to me that he is pure fucking evil also, just a different name than the Devil.


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## tstick (Sep 4, 2017)

Maybe we will one day become our own RE-creator when we build machines that will think for themselves...? Then after that, the sentient beings can become immortal through machining their bodies from indestructible materials...and allow themselves to travel through space to new worlds without time and mortality as a constraint -the way it is for humans, now....oh...wait...Prometheus....nevermind...*cough* I really thought I was onto something there for a sec!


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## Heisenberg (Sep 5, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> so if you dont believe in GOD ,, then you believe we really crawled out of the ocean, squirmed on land, somehow survived, then formed male and female, the formed differant species>>? and whala here we are?


Actually you don't get to tell atheists what they believe. Not believing in god simply means being unconvinced. If you want to convince people you have to provide actual evidence or cogent reasoning, not simply shame them for something they may or may not believe. 

Knowing someone is atheist tells you what they don't believe, not what they do.


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## Heisenberg (Sep 5, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> thats what i tell people,,,, god said,, begin and BANG,,, it all started,, hence the big bang


When did God start? Using God to explain the beginning of everything doesn't actually explain anything. It simply leaves us with the same question. You've only inserted your concept of God into the mystery without actually solving the mystery.


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## StonerCol (Sep 8, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> so if you dont believe in GOD ,, then you believe we really crawled out of the ocean, squirmed on land, somehow survived, then formed male and female, the formed differant species>>? and whala here we are?


Pretty much, yeah.
It makes much more sense to me than a God.


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## BrewerT (Sep 20, 2017)

What kind of God creates a human with a fate to die a horrible drowning in say a tsunami at say 5 months of age? Or should I reckon, what type of God ( whom is *omnipotent*, all *knowing*, all *loving*) would fail to intervene in the face of human tragedy and suffering? Mind you, this fate of yours is purposely designed as so.

If you think, for even one moment of your life, that you were created and left here on this ball of space debris, by a God who created you with a purpose and a likeness in his own image, then I have a test that I would like you to partake in. This test will walk you out of unreasonable reasoning!

Step 1 : Go to Alaska in the winter time. Find a far away place, far removed from any humans. Then strip yourself completely naked....you know, as you came into this reality.

Step 2 : At this point you are probably going to want to entertain your faith in a God....feel free to. Pray, Pray Hard. Pray until oh I don't know...you perish...a horrible, painfully slow, freezing death. As your prayer investment shows no tangible return, you will hopefully realize how much of your precious mental real estate this unreasonable faith has cost you. Your god will prove to be , like all gods, absent, and no so efficient. Which, for the record is defined as

preventing the wasteful use of a particular resource.( oh idk how about your life, mind, happiness,etc.)
suffix: *-efficient*
"an energy-efficient heating system"


Step 3: Right before the lights go out for good....thank your GOOD GOD for this purpose filled designed fate  And by religious reasoning, you will see god soon and be able to thank him for the fate, the good and hard times, the ears for prayers, the sins being forgiven, and again, thank him for letting you be the lucky one to get the fate of freeze to death!!!! Very loving act obviously!

Step 4 : I bet you cant, and won't! This goes for any human living, or to come! If religious people were to put their very life where they put so much faith, we wouldn't have a world filled with mindless, unquestioning, believers in the unreasonable.


If you remove the spiritual value that is held in religion, religion can be a subjective idea that is easily reasoned to not be true.

Especially to the accounts that religions(monotheistic) claim.

I am 412 years old....in biblical years!

I am a Veteran of the US Army Infantry. 99% of Infantryman hold no religious faith. When you know your time is dire, the hocus pocus bullshit goes out the window real quick! If you are praying, you are a dead man. Return Fire....especially at religion!


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## Venus55 (Sep 21, 2017)

BrewerT said:


> What kind of God creates a human with a fate to die a horrible drowning in say a tsunami at say 5 months of age? Or should I reckon, what type of God ( whom is *omnipotent*, all *knowing*, all *loving*) would fail to intervene in the face of human tragedy and suffering? Mind you, this fate of yours is purposely designed as so.
> 
> If you think, for even one moment of your life, that you were created and left here on this ball of space debris, by a God who created you with a purpose and a likeness in his own image, then I have a test that I would like you to partake in. This test will walk you out of unreasonable reasoning!
> 
> ...


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Sep 22, 2017)

maybe god decided that if he keeps reaching down and intervening in our poor decisions, then we'll never learn to stop making those decisions. does your mother follow you around giving you advice all day, stopping you from touching the hot stove, keeping you from stepping in dogshit? why should god do it either? we're supposedly his children, i wouldn't think much of a parent that constantly follows his children around cleaning up their mistakes and never letting them learn for themselves
we sit on our asses allowing people to fuck up the world, then we blame god. get the fuck up and do something about the things you don't like, god helps those who help themselves....but he lets slackers go to hell.
that being said, i'm not a christian, have big problems with a lot of the stuff in the bible, but that doesn't make me an atheist, just a heathern


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## Venus55 (Sep 22, 2017)

Ok. Well let's entertain your reasoning for a moment...
Ok, yes, what sort of "mother" would continue babying her now grown up children not letting them ever slip up to be able to learn from their mistakes? It's a mother's job to help her children _learn _from a young age, guide them in the right direction and teach them to make sensible decisions.

U make the comparison between God and Parent. So tell me, what sort of parent would leave an infant to learn for themselves', to "clean up their own mess", to learn from their own mistakes? Please tell me?
So if your reasoning is as above, where is the lesson and learning in "a 5mth old drowning in a tsunami" as @Brewer T says? And if there _is _a lesson to be learned, _ who _is it intended for? The parent or the 5mth old that had no control of its own environment and just drowned? Bit of a harsh way to "guide" your children isn't it.

And can I address your comment about people helping to create a fucked up world and then blaming it on God or lack of? The fact that we are all contributing to fucking this earth up, is exactly that!! Where the fuck does god whether u believe or not come into it!? Its what we call *reality. *I can't say I know anyone, believer or not, that blames "God" for their cycle of misfortunes or the gradual man-induced degradation of the earth. 

_"And then came human beings. They wanted to cling but there was nothing to cling to."_

Hence "God". God is broad. For me God is Energy. The energy created throughout the entire universe, not just the earth. The universal vibration, and how our atom of existence coincides with those vibrations. And when you're able to hone in on your own energy and direct it in the direction you wish (positive or negative), then that's "God" at work.
"God" is not an image. God is inside. God is what we CHOOSE it to be. Not what the bible TELLS it to be. Open your mind.

Peace.


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## BrewerT (Sep 24, 2017)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> maybe god decided that if he keeps reaching down and intervening in our poor decisions, then we'll never learn to stop making those decisions. does your mother follow you around giving you advice all day, stopping you from touching the hot stove, keeping you from stepping in dogshit? why should god do it either? we're supposedly his children, i wouldn't think much of a parent that constantly follows his children around cleaning up their mistakes and never letting them learn for themselves
> we sit on our asses allowing people to fuck up the world, then we blame god. get the fuck up and do something about the things you don't like, god helps those who help themselves....but he lets slackers go to hell.
> that being said, i'm not a christian, have big problems with a lot of the stuff in the bible, but that doesn't make me an atheist, just a heathern


Heathen! What kind of God...let us say.. one thats omnipotent, and all loving, say like the Christian God Jesus of Nazareth ( designed his fate to be a immortal earthly JEW) designs you and your earthly fate to be full of poor decisions?? Especially considering its in the likeness and IMAGE of ...this said "God"??? Does that sound like a OMNIPOTENT entity???? Does this reflect the actions of a ALL KNOWING entity??? 

Comparing GOD to an Adult Human Parent is similar to comparing Earth to Mars in regards to wine production! 

All monotheistic religions believe God put humans on this earth. They also believe that this said entity put us here with a "purpose" and a prearranged fate, that we can do nothing to override. What our journey brings, is what God has already planned out! So, your God ...put you on earth, to " sit on our asses and allow people to FUBAR shit...and then blame said God for FUBAR"...... This is not the fable and story that humans created, rather God. Or humans very vivid imagination!~


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## BrewerT (Sep 24, 2017)

*What kind of God creates a human with a fate to die a horrible drowning in say a tsunami at say 5 months of age?
*
I know I know!!!

A impotent imagination!


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## Heisenberg (Sep 24, 2017)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> does your mother follow you around giving you advice all day, stopping you from touching the hot stove, keeping you from stepping in dogshit? why should god do it either?


My mother isn't omnipotent. God is said to be all-powerful, all-knowing, and ever present. That means God knew how the world would unfold when he was making it, and had to power to do something about it, but didn't. He could have made it so we are born already knowing the lessons, or he could have made a world where those lessons aren't necessary. The point is that the world we observe is not the sort of world we would expect if God were both all-powerful and benevolent. Instead, it's exactly the same world we would expect to see if there were no God at all.

And yes, if my mother were omnipotent, she would see to it that I never burn my hand or step in dogshit. 

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. 
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. 
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? 
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

- Epicurus


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## Bombattak (Sep 24, 2017)

Ppl always saying "so what created the universe if isnt god?" 

Well ok definitively this question is a mystery that make god lover happy. What if universe has always been there no start no end? Time and mathematic are an human things created by humans. Why the universe had to be created at some point?? Maybe it always been there like an circle that continue non stop. The theory of something that start at X point/time and finish at X point/time, is typically humans theory. 

Well seriously we cant say out of any doubts if god really exist or not but le me tell u a thing... If we talk about the same god as bible/quran talking about lollllll its sc-fiction to the limit. Thora i never studied it.

Bible- too much errors and anachronism that make it simply a big brick of jokes and nowaday as we know Vatican decide which regulated version will be published you just cant be blind as this in 2017. And i dont even start talking about trinity lolllll.

Quran- Well this book had 600 yrs to make an updated version of the thora and bible so theorically it should be more serious and near the perfection of the last 2 jokes and guess what, the quran is more serious and errorless than the bible but again you believe or not and i dont believe in this.... Not even 0.000001%.

Sometime i think to myself why the fuck i dont start my damn own religion called "giveyamoney". Same thing than bible but this time in the story im a god and prayers have to give me their money to go in heaven... Sadly it would work becuz ppl in 2017 are thirsty about these kind of things.

Peace all


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## PCXV (Sep 24, 2017)

Heisenberg said:


> My mother isn't omnipotent. God is said to be all-powerful, all-knowing, and ever present. That means God knew how the world would unfold when he was making it, and had to power to do something about it, but didn't. He could have made it so we are born already knowing the lessons, or he could have made a world where those lessons aren't necessary. The point is that the world we observe is not the sort of world we would expect if God were both all-powerful and benevolent. Instead, it's exactly the same world we would expect to see if there were no God at all.
> 
> "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
> Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
> ...


Excellent summary. Reading your previous post, I was going to go look for that Epicurus quote, then you supplied it here. 5 stars!


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## PCXV (Sep 24, 2017)

Bombattak said:


> Ppl always saying "so what created the universe if isnt god?"
> 
> Well ok definitively this question is a mystery that make god lover happy. What if universe has always been there no start no end? Time and mathematic are an human things created by humans. Why the universe had to be created at some point?? Maybe it always been there like an circle that continue non stop. The theory of something that start at X point/time and finish at X point/time, is typically humans theory.
> 
> ...


Exactly right.


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## Venus55 (Sep 24, 2017)

Heisenberg said:


> My mother isn't omnipotent. God is said to be all-powerful, all-knowing, and ever present. That means God knew how the world would unfold when he was making it, and had to power to do something about it, but didn't. He could have made it so we are born already knowing the lessons, or he could have made a world where those lessons aren't necessary. The point is that the world we observe is not the sort of world we would expect if God were both all-powerful and benevolent. Instead, it's exactly the same world we would expect to see if there were no God at all.
> 
> And yes, if my mother were omnipotent, she would see to it that I never burn my hand or step in dogshit.
> 
> ...


Perfect


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## dandyrandy (Sep 24, 2017)

Maybe God should get an account and comment.


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## Venus55 (Sep 24, 2017)

Lol..


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## MarWan (Sep 24, 2017)

When we are healthy, have plenty of food , and setting safely in our comfortable homes, we start questioning if God really exists.
I wonder what would the non believers say when things go wrong and get real serious (getting close to death) say during a flight, or while cruising in the middle of the ocean, or during sickness.
at that moment when you realize its the end you will instinctively go into autopilot and cry for God's help and start making promises that you'll soon forget if your life gets spared.


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## Bombattak (Sep 24, 2017)

MarWan said:


> When we are healthy, have plenty of food , and setting safely in our comfortable homes, we start questioning if God really exists.
> I wonder what would the non believers say when things go wrong and get real serious (getting close to death) say during a flight, or while cruising in the middle of the ocean, or during sickness.
> at that moment when you realize its the end you will instinctively go into autopilot and cry for God's help and start making promises that you'll soon forget if your life gets spared.


If you really dont believe in god what would be the point for an atheist to pray god if he's really convinced that there is no god??


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## Heisenberg (Sep 24, 2017)

MarWan said:


> When we are healthy, have plenty of food , and setting safely in our comfortable homes, we start questioning if God really exists.
> I wonder what would the non believers say when things go wrong and get real serious (getting close to death) say during a flight, or while cruising in the middle of the ocean, or during sickness.
> at that moment when you realize its the end you will instinctively go into autopilot and cry for God's help and start making promises that you'll soon forget if your life gets spared.



This is the old "no atheists in foxholes" canard. It's merely a way for believers to self-validate. They can't come up with any convincing evidence or rational arguments, so they simply pretend that you secretly believe and therefore don't really need to be convinced after all. It's a way of relieving themselves of the burden, and it reveals that some believers are somehow threatened by non belief to the point of denial. 

Of course, they seem to overlook the fact that even if every single person on Earth believed in God, it still wouldn't do anything to prove he exists. It's actually an argument against your mental state, not for it.


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## Venus55 (Sep 24, 2017)

When I pray it's to the universe. So yes I would pray for help in a dire situation, just not to the image of a man with long hair, dressed in rags and nailed to a cross. Haha no way in the world. That's the image humans needed as that _something_ to "_cling to_". A reason to be. And there's nothing wrong with that. Not at all.


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## Venus55 (Sep 24, 2017)

Heisenberg said:


> This is the old "no atheists in foxholes" canard. It's merely a way for believers to self-validate. They can't come up with any convincing evidence or rational arguments, so they simply pretend that you secretly believe and therefore don't really need to be convinced after all. It's a way of relieving themselves of the burden, and it reveals that some believers are somehow threatened by non belief to the point of denial.
> 
> Of course, they seem to overlook the fact that even if every single person on Earth believed in God, it still wouldn't do anything to prove he exists. It's actually an argument against your mental state, not for it.


So true


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## Chunky Stool (Sep 24, 2017)




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## MarWan (Sep 24, 2017)

I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe in God, if God wishes to guide you, he will do so. God has left his signature in his creation all over the universe including our own body for those who can SEE, and he shows his ways to those people who seek his guidance.
I myself is a firm believer in God, afterlife, and Heaven & Hell.
after all God has created Haven & Hell and shall fill them both.

whatever you try to convince yourself with right now about Gods non existence, it shall change one day.


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## jonsnow399 (Sep 24, 2017)

MarWan said:


> I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe in God, if God wishes to guide you, he will do so. God has left his signature in his creation all over the universe including our own body for those who can SEE, and he shows his ways to those people who seek his guidance.
> I myself is a firm believer in God, afterlife, and Heaven & Hell.
> after all God has created Haven & Hell and shall fill them both.
> 
> whatever you try to convince yourself with right now about Gods non existence, it shall change one day.


The only way to change my mind is with evidence, a "signature" whatever that is, is not evidence.


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## MarWan (Sep 24, 2017)

jonsnow399 said:


> The only way to change my mind is with evidence, a "signature" whatever that is, is not evidence.


its not for me to change your mind, if you truly seek evidence or guidance, you'll have to ask it from God with the due respect He deserves.


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## Heisenberg (Sep 24, 2017)

MarWan said:


> I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe in God, whatever you try to convince yourself with right now about Gods non existence, it shall change one day.


That was exactly my point. You absolve yourself from having to convince anyone by deciding that we already believe and just don't realize it. How convenient for you that even the people who disagree with you actually agree with you. It must be very comforting.

Did you know that you actually don't believe in God? You may think you do, but that will change one day. <--- Did you find this bit of sophistry compelling? If not, then you'll understand if we don't either.


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## MarWan (Sep 24, 2017)

Heisenberg said:


> That was exactly my point. You absolve yourself from having to convince anyone by deciding that we already believe and just don't realize it. How convenient for you that even the people who disagree with you actually agree with you. It must be very comforting.
> 
> Did you know that you actually don't believe in God? You may think you do, but that will change one day. <--- Did you find this bit of sophistry compelling? If not, then you'll understand if we don't either.


I respect your opinion, I just expressed what I strongly believe in, I don't expect anyone to believe in what I say, I just laid my opinion.
What do I have to lose if I were wrong and there was no God?, What materialistic benefit do I get if I convince you that God does exist?

if I had a strong command of the English language (vocabulary), I would be glad to take this discussion more further, provided the mutual respect.
Peace


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## BrewerT (Sep 25, 2017)

MarWan said:


> When we are healthy, have plenty of food , and setting safely in our comfortable homes, we start questioning if God really exists.
> I wonder what would the non believers say when things go wrong and get real serious (getting close to death) say during a flight, or while cruising in the middle of the ocean, or during sickness.
> at that moment when you realize its the end you will instinctively go into autopilot and cry for God's help and start making promises that you'll soon forget if your life gets spared.


So by your logic, only the comforted and thriving question God? The sick, famine, and dying all acknowledge his obviousness? I don't follow any scratch at logic you are attempting to provide.

More so, most of my conclusion in regards to "God" were formed, face down, in the muck and mire of Kandahar, Afghanistan with the 10th Mountain Divisions finest Infantryman. I can assure you, death or the surmised acknowledgement of its inevitability brings no man that I served with to his knee's crying for God. Do some research on this nations backbone. Its Infantryman. The men and now women who wheel and deal in DEATH EVERYDAY! To say the obvious least, Its overwhelming, but it by no means sends a exodus of people searching for God in their finest moments! If death was the great equalizer that brought us all to God, said God would not be so debated. Your statement is ignorant of reality.

So, when I was sick and tired of being a citizen of warfare, had no MRE's and no expected mess hall, package, and was sitting behind my wall of sandbags, taking incoming, comfortably uncomfortable, embracing the suck that is this planet, I never question why God anything. I stayed calm, and returned fire, your welcome!

Sincerely,

(Ret) SSGT Terry Gonzalez
2-14th Infantry --Ft. Drum, NY
10th Mountain Division

Member of the Military's Order of the Purple Heart.
Combat Related Special Compensation Recipient


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## Venus55 (Sep 25, 2017)

MarWan said:


> When we are healthy, have plenty of food , and setting safely in our comfortable homes, we start questioning if God really exists.
> I wonder what would the non believers say when things go wrong and get real serious (getting close to death) say during a flight, or while cruising in the middle of the ocean, or during sickness.
> at that moment when you realize its the end you will instinctively go into autopilot and cry for God's help and start making promises that you'll soon forget if your life gets spared.


As @BrewerT said, I'm sure there have been MANY, or more like millions of instances where people have been at the brink of death praying to their God, beseeching him to spare their life..... and to no avail.
God isn't a debate. There is no right or wrong. And there are no consequences for believing or not believing. The only wrong is insistence to persuade another to believe what u believe.


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## BabyLobsterito (Sep 25, 2017)

BrewerT said:


> (Ret) SSGT Terry Gonzalez
> 2-14th Infantry --Ft. Drum, NY
> 10th Mountain Division
> 
> ...


Much respect. My roommate was a 68W with 2-14th/10th Mountain. The stories and talks we had changed my perspective quite a bit, to say the least.


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## jonsnow399 (Sep 25, 2017)

sub-zero234 said:


> damn this is sad...I will pray for all of you...may all of you find jesus Christ, our lord and saviour


I didn't even know the little fucker was lost!


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## MarWan (Sep 25, 2017)

BrewerT said:


> So by your logic, only the comforted and thriving question God? The sick, famine, and dying all acknowledge his obviousness? I don't follow any scratch at logic you are attempting to provide.
> No, not only the comforted people question Gods existence, all of us 'have questioned ourselves onetime or another. Personally, I get these thoughts while smoking a joint on the toilet.
> Its a Human's nature to seek help from a higher power "God" mostly during tough situations.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your input and respect your opinion.


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## MarWan (Sep 25, 2017)

Venus55 said:


> As @BrewerT said, I'm sure there have been MANY, or more like millions of instances where people have been at the brink of death praying to their God, beseeching him to spare their life..... and to no avail.
> .


That is so true I agree with you 100%. 
But God is not obligated to answer our call or prayer whenever we wish it or as we wish it. In order to have a great chance to have our prayers answered we will have to follow his commands, remember his presence during our health, richness and safety, offer him the praise and respect that he deserves.

Why would you as a human care for people that do not care for you or respect or acknowledge you, and might go further and make up stuff that is not true about you.


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## Venus55 (Sep 25, 2017)

MarWan said:


> That is so true I agree with you 100%.
> But God is not obligated to answer our call or prayer whenever we wish it or as we wish it. In order to have a great chance to have our prayers answered we will have to follow his commands, remember his presence during our health, richness and safety, offer him the praise and respect that he deserves.
> 
> Why would you as a human care for people that do not care for you or respect or acknowledge you, and might go further and make up stuff that is not true about you.


Hang on u lost me,,who's saying what about who!? Lol. Sorry couldn't resist
You're completely missing my point. U keep saying that one can't expect rewards from God if the only time they acknowledge his presence is when they're in trouble and need a quick favour. Yes I'd agree with that too. But that's not what I'm rebutting. 
I'm saying what about someone who has devoted their entire life to their religion and to their God? An avid church-goer. (Or mosque etc). 
What reason would God have to let's say a 16yo girl, practising, devout Christian, "pray everyday" kinda gal, be walking home from school gets abducted, tortured, raped .. For days, and then finally choked out of her misery!? 

_This is the answer I *need* to know?_

Lessons learned is not an acceptable response or reason. I do believe in life lessons as such. But why a newborn baby was smothered to death by the family cat that thought it'd be a good idea to take a little "catnap" right on babies face! (Both parents devoted, religious, God worshipping.) There are NO lessons learned here except keep the cat outside when baby is asleep! No lesson is more valuable than a "truly innocent" infants life. It's unlucky, it's misfortunate, it's an accident. And if worshiping God doesn't prevent these sort of accidents then what do we worship him for? 
I could go on forever making point after point and so could u I'm sure. This is a futile discussion. Like I said earlier about humans needing to cling. Religion was created to give humans structure, a purpose, a reason for "being". Something to cling to. And it's worked to an extent. But has also been grossly abused. Corruption is rife in religion and in church... 
But that's another topic entirely! I'm tired. It's good to hear other people's points of view and reasons behind it. Just because I don't believe what someone says doesn't mean I reject it. 
I hope u have a great day / night 
Peace


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## MarWan (Sep 25, 2017)

I'll try my best to answer your queries, so God help me.


Venus55 said:


> What reason would God have to let's say a 16yo girl, practising, devout Christian, "pray everyday" kinda gal, be walking home from school gets abducted, tortured, raped .. For days, and then finally choked out of her misery!?


Why not look at it from a different point of view, for the case of the 16yr old God loving girl I would say that she probably paid for her sins or cleansed her self (purified) or simply God decided to promote her to a higher level in Heaven, there is a price for everything, and a few hours or days of torture and suffering, in my point of view, is merely nothing compared to eternity in Hell, or could be the ticket into Heaven.

As for the infant I would say he/she was spared a life time of struggle and suffering in this shitty world we live in, and went straight to a better place.

We as humans do not know what lies ahead in the future or what might children grow up to be (think of the tyrants, Hitler and so).

I'm happy that we are having this conversation in a civilized manner, and I extend my apology to whom I might have offended.
Peace


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## Heisenberg (Sep 25, 2017)

I'm reminded of a story of a woman in Texas who was kidnapped and held for 18 years as prisoner in a basement. During this time she was repeatedly raped and beaten, and became pregnant 3 different times. She was forced to give birth and then, years later, to watch her children being raped and beaten, one of them to death.

Imagine her profound suffering. Imagine how many times she must have cried out for god to save her and her children. Imagine the number of prayers she must have offered. Year after year, rape after rape, god did nothing. He was content to sit back and let it happen, leaving her prayers unanswered. Yet, according to Christian doctrine, her captor only has to pray one time and ask for forgiveness. As long as he accepts Jesus into his heart, he can sit in heaven. This prayer God will answer.

"If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That’s the difference between me and your God.” ― Tracie Harris


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## BrewerT (Sep 25, 2017)

MarWan said:


> That is so true I agree with you 100%.
> But God is not obligated to answer our call or prayer whenever we wish it or as we wish it. In order to have a great chance to have our prayers answered we will have to follow his commands, remember his presence during our health, richness and safety, offer him the praise and respect that he deserves.
> 
> Why would you as a human care for people that do not care for you or respect or acknowledge you, and might go further and make up stuff that is not true about you.




Theoretically, if God was to exist, then yes he would be obligated to answer our prayers. What logic is there in a communication avenue if the other end isn't obligated? If he refused, ignored, or otherwise didn't he would not be omnipotent, he would be impotent.

Praise and prayer are nothing but entertainment for your troubled mind. Praise is also something a hypothetical God would not have a need for. Praise is again something humans created, not a God. Prayer is also the same. Prayer and praise don't fit in the reasoning and understanding of a God. Prayer and praise point to a very VERY INEFFICIENT God. Gods are NOT considered inefficient. Humans are, God not 

Why would any hypothetical God create such inefficient and oddly mysterious ways of communication and behavior. Why make a human in your likeness that has to praise and worship you. Does God praise, pray and worship himself? Seems silly...cause...well...it is 

What kind of God creates in his image ...just to "command" you to remember him and not other Gods??? Does this said God seems to forget himself from time to time....wish he would


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## BrewerT (Sep 25, 2017)

Heisenberg said:


> I'm reminded of a story of a woman in Texas who was kidnapped and held for 18 years as prisoner in a basement. During this time she was repeatedly raped and beaten, and became pregnant 3 different times. She was forced to give birth and then, years later, to watch her children being raped and beaten, one of them to death.
> 
> Imagine her profound suffering. Imagine how many times she must have cried out for god to save her and her children. Imagine the number of prayers she must have offered. Year after year, rape after rape, god did nothing. He was content to sit back and let it happen, leaving her prayers unanswered. Yet, according to Christian doctrine, her captor only has to pray one time and ask for forgiveness. As long as he accepts Jesus into his heart, he can sit in heaven. This prayer God will answer.
> 
> "If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That’s the difference between me and your God.” ― Tracie Harris


Well said! Thank you for sharing. Such a true contrast of the fuckery that is religion 

Most have let their fears become their God. Belief in a God makes you helpless, when if you didnt have this blindness of faith, you could save yourself.


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## BrewerT (Sep 25, 2017)

MarWan said:


> I'll try my best to answer your queries, so God help me.
> 
> 
> Why not look at it from a different point of view, for the case of the 16yr old God loving girl I would say that she probably paid for her sins or cleansed her self (purified) or simply God decided to promote her to a higher level in Heaven, there is a price for everything, and a few hours or days of torture and suffering, in my point of view, is merely nothing compared to eternity in Hell, or could be the ticket into Heaven.
> ...


*
As for the infant I would say he/she was spared a life time of struggle and suffering in this shitty world we live in, and went straight to a better place.*

God designed a fate that spared her, yet ignored countless before or after. Just one example of a inefficient and impotent "God".

If a human did that on earth, they would enjoy a lovely fate ...via other sick, mental, humans 

Heaven has levels??? Must be for those that lived to 412 biblical years 

Please forgive my jokes, Army humor still sucks. I sincerely apologize if I offended anyone. It's just words on a screen brothers n sisters! If God makes you happy, I am happy for you!!!!


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## MarWan (Sep 25, 2017)

BrewerT said:


> Theoretically, if God was to exist, then yes he would be obligated to answer our prayers. What logic is there in a communication avenue if the other end isn't obligated? If he refused, ignored, or otherwise didn't he would not be omnipotent, he would be impotent.


The Way I see it
He is the king, the creator, He gives, He takes. Yes he is not obligated to answer our prayers, He already gave us plenty of gifts that we should recognize in our body, and in our surroundings, and the greatest gift of all the Mind.
He hears all and answers whatever he wishes to answer even will answer a call from a non believer if He wishes to. God Had made a promise to answer the call of those who truly seek him and worship him alone.



BrewerT said:


> Praise and prayer are nothing but entertainment for your troubled mind. Praise is also something a hypothetical God would not have a need for. Praise is again something humans created, not a God. Prayer is also the same. Prayer and praise don't fit in the reasoning and understanding of a God. Prayer and praise point to a very VERY INEFFICIENT God. Gods are NOT considered inefficient. Humans are, God not


True that God does not NEED our prayers and praise, Nor Gold or silver. He likes to be acknowledged and appreciated especially by the believers, praising him and praying cost you nothing.

After all God is not asking for much. We humans sometimes go through great deal to satisfy a boss at work, or anyone who is in possession of something we need.

again that was my point of view and the way I see it, at least when I go to bed I go feeling at peace, I don't have nightmares and sleep peacefully ( after smoking several joints  ). I do not feel depressed our have anxiety, other than weed I don't need to take any sort of medication. 

Peace


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## BrewerT (Sep 25, 2017)

MarWan said:


> The Way I see it
> He is the king, the creator, He gives, He takes. Yes he is not obligated to answer our prayers, He already gave us plenty of gifts that we should recognize in our body, and in our surroundings, and the greatest gift of all the Mind.
> He hears all and answers whatever he wishes to answer even will answer a call from a non believer if He wishes to. God Had made a promise to answer the call of those who truly seek him and worship him alone.
> 
> ...



I appreciate your response!

With all do respect, you are back-peddling in your Gods defense. More importantly, what kind of God gives prayer along one's fate, just to answer it at his discretion? That's a purely evil game to play. If a human was to behave like such, society would punish for mental abuse. These are truly characteristics of Evilness not Godliness. Its equivalent to putting a piece of meat on the end of a stick and making a human chase it, perhaps give him some along the way for encouragement, but continue ...none the less, until death. Life is a gift, that happens. In humans cases...two humans made it happen...sometimes even a Doctor of sorts gets to put a twist on things  Praise them, not imaginative things! I am not in any way, shape or form, encouraging you to believe a certain way or thing, but please....really consider just what you are beholding as your supreme leader. I am sure you are a decent human being, and don't stand for such wickedness.


Furthermore, what kind of God creates pointless objects like Gold and Silver and praise and prayer, yet...magically....gives a "purpose of sorts" to a mortal human???? That's like attempting to feed your dog its own shit while praising him a good boy  *Inefficiency* is not Godly. I'm sorry, it's just not! The bible claims a story of a very efficient creator. Yet, everything about him, and his creations, are ...the direct opposite. That leads to nothingness.

I will be on level 420 of my own little personal heaven for further discretion!


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## BrewerT (Sep 25, 2017)

Religion and its influence is the largest known killer of humans, in human history.* Imagination and thought are very powerful things*. The wrong kind shows the costs. More God = More Death. More and more people are willing to live, and die for God. And as this madness builds, this rock could see a spinning future with not one single living human on it. God is not good. God kills. Ive seen it and was almost a victim of it. Who do we thank and praise then? We live on the fence of world destruction, this very moment. 

If humans have any hope, the obvious answer, is not in God. Its in all humans! This world is truly hopeless continuing a faith based mindset. Truth, Happiness, Compassion. THC


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## TacoMac (Sep 25, 2017)

People confuse faith and religion. The two are not remotely related.

Faith comes from the individual. It's an internal feeling all your own that nobody else can share.

Religion is the teaching of a doctrine. Nothing more.

Einstein proved that we never die. Our bodies produce energy. Energy never dies, it simply changes form.

Is there an existence beyond this one? Yes.

Do I know what that is? No...and I've been dead twice, so there's that. But there is something beyond this place in some form. If you want to call that God, there's no problem with that. If you don't, there's no problem with that either.

I think in the end it matters not. We all find out eventually. The God I believe in doesn't have a problem with that.


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## BrewerT (Sep 25, 2017)

Religion is defined as; the belief in and worship of a superhuman. Your definition is not commonly accepted. Its made up. By you. 

Faith is defined as ; 
*2*.
strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

Sounds really related to me. But I guess that depends on your definition of related/relation. Christians hold a common belief that they will go to heaven and that its divine intervention that gets them there.

Modern medicine does not subscribe to " Einstein proved that we never die"...nor does the coroners office.


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## TacoMac (Sep 25, 2017)

BrewerT said:


> Religion is defined as; the belief in and worship of a superhuman. Your definition is not commonly accepted. Its made up. By you.
> 
> Faith is defined as ;
> *2*.
> ...


You're a moron.

Do you have faith in your best friend? Yes? Is he a god?
Do you have faith the sun will come up tomorrow?
Do you have faith that if you eat ice cream too fast you'll get a headache?

Faith, in and of itself, is relative. Religion is not.

You can have faith in pretty much anything: that the Sox will win the pennant, that you'll win the lottery, that if you put a quarter into a pinball machine you'll get a game.

Here are the REAL definitions:

faith
fāTH/
_noun_
noun: *faith*

*1*.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
re·li·gion
rəˈlijən/
_noun_
noun: *religion*

the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

Next time, don't be a complete fucking moron. You're not the only one here with internet access you idiot.


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## BrewerT (Sep 25, 2017)

TacoMac said:


> You're a moron.
> 
> Do you have faith in your best friend? Yes? Is he a god?
> Do you have faith the sun will come up tomorrow?
> ...


Im speechless. And an idiot by your very high standards. Your name calling says everything. I don't entertain those with the wits to name call. I can be mean too....it takes almost no effort. 

Real definitions??? You forgot the second definition....which i posted. Dont know whats so unreal there? Other than your lack of education, decency, and respect!

I will let your post speak for itself.


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## MarWan (Sep 25, 2017)

why blame religion when its the Man's fault who interpret it as he wishes and manipulate it . Some people have been doing that for thousands of years and still going on.
When George W. Bush announced war on Iraq, He said God has spoken to him and commanded him (if I remember correctly), His father before him said it was a crusade. a new world order.


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## BrewerT (Sep 25, 2017)

MarWan said:


> why blame religion when its the Man's fault who interpret it as he wishes and manipulate it . Some people have been doing that for thousands of years and still going on.
> When George W. Bush announced war on Iraq, He said God has spoken to him and commanded him (if I remember correctly), His father before him said it was a crusade. a new world order.



I blame Man no for not stopping this destructive plague of hocus pocus mystical bullshit. Why would a God create a human to interpret? That does not fit the characteristics of Godliness.


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## MarWan (Sep 25, 2017)

BrewerT said:


> I blame Man no for not stopping this destructive plague of hocus pocus mystical bullshit. Why would a God create a human to interpret? That does not fit the characteristics of Godliness.


there are people who are driven by greed ,lust, envy, negative things in general, who would use religion to pursue their interests by any means necessary, some times they get the upper hand for a period of time. Humans are no Angels or perfect.

Unlike many creatures, we are given the freedom of choice, If we chose to stop destruction we should act upon it then ask help from the all mighty. God created the universe and set the laws that cannot be changed (only changed on a very rare occasions for those who are special). If you want something done, you'll have to act upon it, you will have to use the tools and means necessary to get the job done, do not rely on prayer alone, after all God helps those who help themselves.

Peace be with you.


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## Venus55 (Sep 25, 2017)

BrewerT said:


> Theoretically, if God was to exist, then yes he would be obligated to answer our prayers. What logic is there in a communication avenue if the other end isn't obligated? If he refused, ignored, or otherwise didn't he would not be omnipotent, he would be impotent.
> 
> Praise and prayer are nothing but entertainment for your troubled mind. Praise is also something a hypothetical God would not have a need for. Praise is again something humans created, not a God. Prayer is also the same. Prayer and praise don't fit in the reasoning and understanding of a God. Prayer and praise point to a very VERY INEFFICIENT God. Gods are NOT considered inefficient. Humans are, God not
> 
> ...


Well said


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## Venus55 (Sep 25, 2017)

TacoMac said:


> You're a moron.
> 
> Do you have faith in your best friend? Yes? Is he a god?
> Do you have faith the sun will come up tomorrow?
> ...


Hey seriously. I agree with exactly what u've said, but is there really any reason to start insulting? Geez that pisses me off. Why can't people have civil conversations anymore without calling each other names?

I'm not saying you're wrong. But when u behave this way it makes it look like u r.....


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## MarWan (Sep 25, 2017)

let us all smoke a joint, listen to some music and appreciate "God's" beautiful creation 






She does look like princess Jasmine.


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## Chunky Stool (Sep 25, 2017)

Venus55 said:


> Hey seriously. I agree with exactly what u've said, but is there really any reason to start insulting? Geez that pisses me off. Why can't people have civil conversations anymore without calling each other names?
> View attachment 4016879
> I'm not saying you're wrong. But when u behave this way it makes it look like u r.....


Don't be a moron.


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## Venus55 (Sep 25, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> Don't be a moron.


Lol. Prick


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## Heisenberg (Sep 25, 2017)

TacoMac said:


> Einstein proved that we never die. Our bodies produce energy. Energy never dies, it simply changes form.



What Einstein demonstrated is that energy is equivalent to mass times speed of light squared. What you have stated is the first law of thermodynamics which is accredited to Antoine Lavoisier and Julius Robert Mayer. None of those people claimed to have proved that we never die.

To quote Ben Radford: "After a person dies, the energy in his or her body goes where all organisms' energy goes after death: into the environment. When a human dies, the energy stored in his or her body is released in the form of heat, and transferred into the animals that eat us (i.e., wild animals if we are left unburied, or worms and bacteria if we are interred), and the plants that absorb us. If we are cremated, the energy in our bodies is released in the form of heat and light."

Where our energy goes when we die is not a mystery. While you are free to believe as you wish, pretending that those beliefs are somehow backed up by science is factually wrong and intellectually dishonest. I'm afraid you'll have to fall back on faith.



TacoMac said:


> Do you have faith in your best friend? Yes? Is he a god?
> Do you have faith the sun will come up tomorrow?
> Do you have faith that if you eat ice cream too fast you'll get a headache?


This is a very old trick popular with religious apologists, but it's also a well known logical fallacy called equivocation. It relies on the fact that words have multiple meanings. If I say "that girl is hot" or "the sun is hot" I am obviously using two very different definitions of the word "hot,", neither of which has anything to do with the other. When people say "I have faith in God" or "I have faith in my friends" they are using the same word, but meaning two wholly different concepts. Faith in our friends comes from evidence. This can be demonstrated by the fact that a friend who treats you badly or repeatedly lets you down is a friend which you'll have no faith in. Faith in God comes from wishful thinking, and it persists despite evidence, not because of it.

It's such a well known fallacy that it isn't hard to find dozens of websites explaining it. (for example: https://adamkemp.newsvine.com/_news/2007/06/30/797564-faith-faith-and-equivocation) The next time you decide to call someone else a moron, you should probably make sure you're not looking in a mirror first.

The fact that you have to rely on name calling, made-up science, and logical mistakes to defend your faith is telling not only of its intellectual frailty but also your confidence in it. If faith is a personal thing, then keep it to yourself, because when you try to prove it has some factual basis or that everyone else shares your faith, you're gonna fail.


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## BrewerT (Sep 26, 2017)

Heisenberg said:


> What Einstein demonstrated is that energy is equivalent to mass times speed of light squared. What you have stated is the first law of thermodynamics which is accredited to Antoine Lavoisier and Julius Robert Mayer. None of those people claimed to have proved that we never die.
> 
> To quote Ben Radford: "After a person dies, the energy in his or her body goes where all organisms' energy goes after death: into the environment. When a human dies, the energy stored in his or her body is released in the form of heat, and transferred into the animals that eat us (i.e., wild animals if we are left unburied, or worms and bacteria if we are interred), and the plants that absorb us. If we are cremated, the energy in our bodies is released in the form of heat and light."
> 
> ...



Thank you for stating this! Faith and Religion are related. Its not an evil thing, it's simply the truth, and for some reason, most of those with faith in God( I know a slight blanket statement) seem to be headstrong that these two words have polar or no relation at all. Christianity is called a faith-based religion for a reason. That's what it is.

Wishful thinking. Pipe dreaming. Brainstorming. Imagination.

Name calling....in a religious online thread? By a believer....nah, don't believe it.


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## Enigma (Sep 26, 2017)

Don't forget to tip!


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## Tim Fox (Sep 26, 2017)

GreenLogician said:


> Tim, that's got nothing to do with believing in God or not. That's about understanding science.
> Most theists understand evolution happened - creationism is a very small, fringe part of theism.
> Even within just Christianity, most Christians accept evolution - about 55% of all Christians. (And 99.998% of all biologists, many of which are believers)


if you want science to prove the bible,, just watch the movie on amazon prime or netflix called " IS Genesis History",, and all the scientist prove thru science that the bible is real,, but you probably wont watch it


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## Tim Fox (Sep 26, 2017)

Is genesis History?,,, you bet it is,,, and science proves it https://isgenesishistory.com/a-brief-overview/


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## GreenLogician (Sep 26, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> if you want science to prove the bible,, just watch the movie on amazon prime or netflix called " IS Genesis History",, and all the scientist prove thru science that the bible is real,, but you probably wont watch it


Thanks but I'm not paying to be preached at by uninformed and overconfident scientific illiterates. I've already seen a thousand films like it, Ray Comfort, Kent Hovind and the like. You can find criticisms out there, but hey, you probably wont watch them.


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## Enigma (Sep 26, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> if you want science to prove the bible,, just watch the movie on amazon prime or netflix called " IS Genesis History",, and all the scientist prove thru science that the bible is real,, but you probably wont watch it



It is more likely that we are a genetic experiment from far more intelligent beings than some mystical peeping-tom hiding in the clouds that is absolutely terrible with money.


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## GreenLogician (Sep 26, 2017)

Can you provide me evidence now, here, that any supernatural claim in the bible, or any claim contradicting secular science, is true?
I'm not paying for Netflix or Amazon Prime, and your linked website is nothing but promo advertisements to sell the product - zero evidence discussed.


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## Enigma (Sep 26, 2017)

GreenLogician said:


> Can you provide me evidence now, here, that any supernatural claim in the bible, or any claim contradicting secular science, is true?
> I'm not paying for Netflix or Amazon Prime, and your linked website is nothing but promo advertisements to sell the product - zero evidence discussed.



I can.

The Crusades.

The Christian mythology is also a regurgitation of a story written by the Sumerians.

Which was also copied by the Hindus, and the Egyptians.

People need an answer to the Eternal Question, religion gives them that answer without any hard work or deductive reasoning.


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## PetFlora (Sep 26, 2017)

For anyone who is not aware of Anu, Enki, Enlil = annunaki, they created religions, Enlil is the god of the sky, war... now, I do believe in a Prime creator, but, not the so called god that billions worship


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## GreenLogician (Sep 26, 2017)

Enigma, the crusades are evidence for what?
"I can."
I asked for evidence of either of two things, which did you present? 
Sounded more like a debunking by offering an explanation for how the stories exist without being true; plagiarized from older stories, about different characters.


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## Enigma (Sep 26, 2017)

GreenLogician said:


> Enigma, the crusades are evidence for what?
> "I can."
> I asked for evidence of either of two things, which did you present?
> Sounded more like a debunking by offering an explanation for how the stories exist without being true; plagiarized from older stories, about different characters.


If you know anything about The Crusades you will laugh at Christianity as a whole.

If you know the Christian mythology is nothing more than a copy of an older story then you will laugh until you piss yourself.


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## GreenLogician (Sep 26, 2017)

lol okay, it was just your answer "I can" that threw me off. Maybe you misread my questions, or maybe that was sarcasm.
Yep yep, for example I know about older versions of Noah's ark - Gilgamesh's Utnapishtim,
itself copied from the earlier Atra-Hasis,
which in turn was copied from the even older Ziusudra.


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## Venus55 (Sep 26, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Is genesis History?,,, you bet it is,,, and science proves it https://isgenesishistory.com/a-brief-overview/


*Incompatible creationism*
There is a more widespread acceptance that believing in evolution and creationism is incompatible. Evolution is an idea based on scientific evidence that life developed because of random mutations in genetic material and the process of natural selection. Creationism, on the other hand, requires faith without analysis that life began due to the intervention of a supernatural creator. For this reason, there is a conflict between evolution and creationism that some people say can never be resolved.

For instance, some evolutionary scientists, including Richard Dawkins, see a world where only evolution can exist. Such evolutionists reject the premise of religion on the grounds that there is no evidence for it, instead favouring a naturalist worldview. Naturalism is the belief that only things in the natural world that can be observed and verified with evidence exist. For these scientists, evolution is the only way of explaining the origins of life, as belief in a creator requires faith and faith has no natural basis that can be subjected to experimentation.
Others have argued that this naturalist worldview can itself be seen as a kind of modern religion. For example, Philip Johnson, an advocate of the theory of intelligent design, argues that scientists often place large amounts of faith and belief into Darwin’s theory of evolution. He says that evolution easily substitutes traditional religion and provides all the benefits, such as an explanation of where we came from. But those naturalist scientists still reject the idea of evolution being compatible with religion that involves a creator God.

*The dualist alternative*
Other evolutionists advocate a “dualist” way of looking at the world that gives space to both religion and evolution. Instead of seeing religion as something that comes from God, these scientistssee it as a human adaptation to life, where religion has developed because of evolution.

Under this perspective, religion evolved naturally as a way of promoting cooperation. Humans need to cooperate to survive and religion provides a basis for them to do so. Religion can also help shame those who try to reject their group membership in order to make them tow the line and maximise greater chances of survival for the group. 

The catch is that this worldview is not actually very kind to traditional theology. It describes religion in a way that is fundamentally atheistic in character, without belief in gods, corporeal spirit or life after death. This is why evolutionary scientists with dualist beliefs don’t see a conflict between religion and evolution. They don’t hold religious beliefs in the traditional sense. Instead they use evolution to explain the existence of religion.

Ultimately, to accept evolution as scientific fact, scientists (and indeed anyone) have to abandon the tenets of religion and accept there is no higher authority on the most meaningful matters of human existence. And that is what offends most religiously-minded people.
_This article was amended on 7 March 2016 to replace the phrase “prominent religious figures” with “prominent figures with relgious beliefs” to avoid confusion._


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## BrewerT (Sep 26, 2017)

Oddly enough, much of Christianity was loosely borrowed from Paganism. Mind you, the superhuman "God" in Christianity just happens to be a JEW! Which is really hard fitting into the notion that a JEW can, is, or otherwise could be, a GOD. That there should be enough to warrant a natural curiosity out of most humans. But belief in a GOD prays on the ignorant. It prays upon the vulnerable. So, like most good societies....you kill those humans. ANd, thats what the Romans did. They hung your "God" on a cross, to die. and...he died....go figure, thats what mortals do! 

*The bible is real. I can even put a finger on it. You don't really need science to come to the conclusion that the bible is real.

Its the contents within the bible the science has and always will, be able to, prove as utter bullshit. What it can't prove, isn't worth the time to argue. Its just to bizarre, strange, unworthy, or not worth the time of day. *

Christ, or more so, Jesus of Narezeth was not the first to make those type of claims. In fact, in those days it was a VERY COMMON IDEA TO CHAMPION! How many HUMANS have proclaimed to be GOD?? Our bud Google is a answer away! Jesus was nothing more, or less, than a JEW looking for ATTENTION. And he found it, just like every other* liar* in those times. He found *his dumb ass hanging from a wooden cross tree and NOT ABLE TO DO A FUCKING THING ABOUT IT. *

The reality is, Jesus of Nazareth, whom Christians believe IS GOD, DIED. A COMMON ROMAN DEATH. VIA HANGING ON A CROSS TO DIE. These are historical facts. These are commonly believed to have happened in history. You don't need science to see, that GODS DONT DIE! EVER! That does not fit into the characteristics of Godliness ( Superhuman) 

GODS, DON'T DIE. Especially at the hands of mortal humans! This does not take science to prove. Logic and reasoning....which you must use in order to employ FAITH, or FICTION~!


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## Venus55 (Sep 26, 2017)

Enigma said:


> It is more likely that we are a generic experiment from far more intelligent beings than some mystical peeping-tom hiding in the clouds that is absolutely terrible with money.


Haha well put. That's my rationale.


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## BrewerT (Sep 26, 2017)

Evolution is NOT and IDEA. Its both an theory, and fact. 
The formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence....or facts. Most graduate level scholars adhere and promote the facts that are factual and suggest the ideas that are theories. 

Evolution fits in the bible as well as dinosaurs do. Scientist , or properly educated scientist, don't have any evidence to support a divine creator. *Life, thus far, is LIVING PROOF OF NO GOD. OR GOD is one big fucking liar*....which, is just as possible considering the history of HUMANS proclaiming to be GODS! 

Let us not forget, that in order to believe in Christ, you must accept his earthly book as all true, all factual. 

So if you read the book, just take a look around. See any talking snakes, burning bushes that can vocalize? Any return of said god back to earth? SO thus far,* the BIBLE disproves GOD* sometimes more than actual science can.


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## ANC (Sep 26, 2017)

Get the fuck out of here. All you need to do is believe in Christ.
There are no other hurdles to clear. No good deeds will help you.


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## BrewerT (Sep 26, 2017)

How does any God, forget to mention, in a book that they created, the single most massive creation to date???

Dinosaurs. Dinosaurs speak more about evolution than any God could ever hope to. 

"God" starts his book with stating his largest creation....earth...in something like 3 days...totally fits the bill of something a GOD WOULD DO. 

Then, in theory, one would think the story of dinosaurs starts. But.....apparently...God smoked a fattie before this book!


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## Enigma (Sep 26, 2017)

GreenLogician said:


> lol okay, it was just your answer "I can" that threw me off. Maybe you misread my questions, or maybe that was sarcasm.
> Yep yep, for example I know about older versions of Noah's ark - Gilgamesh's Utnapishtim,
> itself copied from the earlier Atra-Hasis,
> which in turn was copied from the even older Ziusudra.



It seems I did.


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## Enigma (Sep 26, 2017)

ANC said:


> Get the fuck out of here. All you need to do is believe in Christ.
> There are no other hurdles to clear. No good deeds will help you.



I believe he was a fictional character created in order to control the populous.


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## Enigma (Sep 26, 2017)

Venus55 said:


> *Incompatible creationism*
> There is a more widespread acceptance that believing in evolution and creationism is incompatible. Evolution is an idea based on scientific evidence that life developed because of random mutations in genetic material and the process of natural selection. Creationism, on the other hand, requires faith without analysis that life began due to the intervention of a supernatural creator. For this reason, there is a conflict between evolution and creationism that some people say can never be resolved.
> 
> For instance, some evolutionary scientists, including Richard Dawkins, see a world where only evolution can exist. Such evolutionists reject the premise of religion on the grounds that there is no evidence for it, instead favouring a naturalist worldview. Naturalism is the belief that only things in the natural world that can be observed and verified with evidence exist. For these scientists, evolution is the only way of explaining the origins of life, as belief in a creator requires faith and faith has no natural basis that can be subjected to experimentation.
> ...



Now, imagine if everyone felt this way.. how the world would be so different.. we wouldn't be so overpopulated.. we wouldn't be so polluted and ravaged.. we would still fight and kill, that is the natural order.. I believe the Earth would have a longer lifespan, we would have a longer lifespan.. there would be less technologically advances weapons, most likely you would have to look you adversary in the eye when you kill him.. out medical, communication, transportation education, etc. would be far more advanced, we would have a better opportunity to explore the universe we live in.


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## Stealthstyle (Sep 26, 2017)

My god is better than yours and is the only true God.


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## dagwood45431 (Sep 26, 2017)

Stealthstyle said:


> My god is better than yours and is the only true God.


My god's dick is bigger than your god's dick. My god's nickname in heavenly circles is Tripod. He'll slap your face with it if you don't wisen up.


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## Stealthstyle (Sep 26, 2017)

Well i dont believe in your god i only believe in my god


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## Stealthstyle (Sep 26, 2017)

Joking im an atheist


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## BrewerT (Sep 27, 2017)

Enigma said:


> Now, imagine if everyone felt this way.. how the world would be so different.. we wouldn't be so overpopulated.. we wouldn't be so polluted and ravaged.. we would still fight and kill, that is the natural order.. I believe the Earth would have a longer lifespan, we would have a longer lifespan.. there would be less technologically advances weapons, most likely you would have to look you adversary in the eye when you kill him.. out medical, communication, transportation education, etc. would be far more advanced, we would have a better opportunity to explore the universe we live in.


Praise Praise Praise!!! I completely agree! Humans love to return animals to the wild, except for themselves. Humans outside of its natural order has shown its sums. Borders, Nations, Fiat Currencies, Religions, all partake in the division and control of "civilized" human beings. Humans are out of the natural order and this divergence has the capacity to extinct humans. In our natural order, that is so far from a reality that its truly laughable.

Humans seem to forget, that much of our history, ....in fact, the majority of human history, to our understanding thus far, has been nomadic, natural, and evolving. Now we are stagnant, lumped together against natures will, and rapidly going backwards or towards a extinct fate. So ya, Go America! Go Christianity. This New world order that we live in, is merely slavery really well painted to look like hope...a better tomorrow...except tomorrow never comes. Its the same regimented days, one after another....until your children take your spot in this never ending cycle of human slavery, or you die and the next man takes your spot.! Being in a civilization is the only means to mass slavery. In humans natural order, death would occur long before a life of blind slavery.

Natural order is by far, the more respectable approach to living a human beings existence. Respect is promoted in this order. Its demanded. Other wise its time to fight, to the death, of one.Which is honorable, respectable. Its promotes letting people be people. Not mindless. It encourages self determination and thought process. People think without leadership and civilized laws there is anarchy and lawlessness. That humans would be out of ORDER. But in FACT, it works the other way around. Most of human history, again, works without man made laws, and within the confines of NATURES LAWS. You against the world. Its clear. Nothing can hide, and sincerely more importantly, enslave us within that reality. It may appear barbaric, but thats the way NATURE works.

Notice any other creatures praying or giving praise? Notice any pro-choice alligators? Notice nothing but humans have tried to convince you. Does one with a subscription to "higher powers" find this extremely odd? Look around, we are the ones that have it wrong. We could be a species that does thrive, but instead we a a society, driven, by its powerful owners.

Sadly Freeing personal Freedom starts with FREEING YOURSELF FROM CIVILIZATION.....and its far to late, to start that. Less than a handful of humans remain on this planet that are not under the microscope. That are not attached to civilizations. These are the last real remaining humans. You, I, and everyone on this website....share one thing in common....we are all royally fucked...together!


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## dagwood45431 (Sep 27, 2017)

BrewerT said:


> Praise Praise Praise!!! I completely agree! Humans love to return animals to the wild, except for themselves. Humans outside of its natural order has shown its sums. Borders, Nations, Fiat Currencies, Religions, all partake in the division and control of "civilized" human beings. Humans are out of the natural order and this divergence has the capacity to extinct humans. In our natural order, that is so far from a reality that its truly laughable.
> 
> Humans seem to forget, that much of our history, ....in fact, the majority of human history, to our understanding thus far, has been nomadic, natural, and evolving. Now we are stagnant, lumped together against natures will, and rapidly going backwards or towards a extinct fate. So ya, Go America! Go Christianity. This New world order that we live in, is merely slavery really well painted to look like hope...a better tomorrow...except tomorrow never comes. Its the same regimented days, one after another....until your children take your spot in this never ending cycle of human slavery, or you die and the next man takes your spot.! Being in a civilization is the only means to mass slavery. In humans natural order, death would occur long before a life of blind slavery.
> 
> ...


You're in the Jean-Jacques Rousseau camp. Nothing wrong with that.


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## BrewerT (Sep 27, 2017)

dagwood45431 said:


> You're in the Jean-Jacques Rousseau camp. Nothing wrong with that.


Thank you kindly! In my opinion, just knowing of Rousseau says some good things about you!  

He was also a mathematician. One of his notable equations was ; Historical Amnesia = Genocide. 

Division + Lunacy+ Nuclear Arms = Where in the fuck is GOD NOW????? If there ever was to be a GOD, no human alive or dead could ever imagine, a more appropriate time for Divine Intervention. But I am sure some believer out there has a very just excuse on his behalf!


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## dagwood45431 (Sep 27, 2017)

BrewerT said:


> Thank you kindly! In my opinion, just knowing of Rousseau says some good things about you!
> 
> He was also a mathematician. One of his notable equations was ; Historical Amnesia = Genocide.
> 
> Division + Lunacy+ Nuclear Arms = Where in the fuck is GOD NOW????? If there ever was to be a GOD, no human alive or dead could ever imagine, a more appropriate time for Divine Intervention. But I am sure some believer out there has a very just excuse on his behalf!


I'll be darned -- the reference hit home. Cool!


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## MarWan (Sep 27, 2017)

BrewerT said:


> Thank you kindly! In my opinion, just knowing of Rousseau says some good things about you!
> 
> He was also a mathematician. One of his notable equations was ; Historical Amnesia = Genocide.
> 
> Division + Lunacy+ Nuclear Arms = Where in the fuck is GOD NOW????? If there ever was to be a GOD, no human alive or dead could ever imagine, a more appropriate time for Divine Intervention. But I am sure some believer out there has a very just excuse on his behalf!


God is awaiting me and you and the others who feel injustice all over the planet, to get together and fight for themselves, He made laws that do not change, in order to get from point A to point B, you have to have the desire first to do that, then plan and use whatever means , tools that might help you accomplish your goal.
We've to help ourselves before asking for a Divine intervention.

On the other hand, those evil beings that look like us humans, but lack any human feelings knew very well that the Laws of God* or Nature** don't change and they took it to their advantage.

Over the course of time they studied and understood the human psychology and behavior as individuals and as a society, and knew how to manipulate us and keep us chained to our materialistic needs, and in the same time weaken and destroy our spiritual side.
--------------
*My believe
**Your believe

We cannot say for sure that animals and birds do not pray or praise, Only when we get to understand their language.

Peace


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## dagwood45431 (Sep 27, 2017)

MarWan said:


> We cannot say for sure that animals and birds do not pray or praise


Yeah, that's one of the mysteries yet solved. Wow.


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## MarWan (Sep 27, 2017)

dagwood45431 said:


> Yeah, that's one of the mysteries yet solved. Wow.


I would rather be a bird or a decent animal after seeing what Man has done to the planet. I would pray and praise that I was not created to be a human.
that's reason enough for praise.


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## BrewerT (Sep 28, 2017)

The changes we see in the manifestations of different "gods" show the lack of omnipotence , which is literal proof that the Laws of God, are still and probably as long as humans occupy earth, will change.
Buddhism
Judaism
Pagan
Islam

Just testaments of PROOF that indeed, "God's" laws do change. Some would like to argue that its mans interpretation...and in reality it is. But that also is just another example of the lack of efficacy. If these laws are not efficient than what can we surmise about this "G-d" ? Why would any God have an interest in confusion or trickery? Transparency in theory is something very very easy for a "God"



MarWan said:


> God is awaiting me and you and the others who feel injustice all over the planet, to get together and fight for themselves, He made laws that do not change, in order to get from point A to point B, you have to have the desire first to do that, then plan and use whatever means , tools that might help you accomplish your goal.
> We've to help ourselves before asking for a Divine intervention.
> 
> On the other hand, those evil beings that look like us humans, but lack any human feelings knew very well that the Laws of God* or Nature** don't change and they took it to their advantage.
> ...


With all do respect, most of what you have stated is pure speculation. God awaiting anyone is a opinion at best.

There is a plethora of science and more importantly scholarly research and studies into the languages of other life forms.
Take a moment to research what a Lexigram is. Take a moment to understand how we learned how dolphins, whales, chimps, bonobos, monkeys, etc. all communicate. Plants, yes...PLANTS, even have a route of communication. Plants respond to electrical stimuli in a binary fashion. To me, that's really fascinating. I am sure if they could communicate with us they would want to roam....like a nomad, on its own free intuition and not that of a bird, or wind  There are hundreds of published books and studies expressing this. Darwin also contributed to the studies of plants and had some really neat conclusions.

Michael Marder put forth a phenomenology. Based loosely on the physiology of plant perception. 

The astonishing thing about these studies is.....there has not been a single example of these other forms of life, praying, or giving praise to a "high power". Praise is very common in dolphins and some whales. They praise each other, not some imaginative hocus pocus.

Science can say, with absolute, that indeed thus far, "animals and birds" do not practice prayer to our observations. That is to say that its not impossible that they don't ,but thus far, we have no tangible or documented evidence to motivate a body of scientist to believe that we share this unfortunate practice with other life forms.

Lastly, a Human is a Human is a Human. Whether we like that fact or not does not remove its validity. Some humans behave in a manner that we prefer or like more than other, but at the end of the day.....There is no such thing as an evil human or a good human, or even a godly human for that matter. Science has no interest in pretending, or in the make believe.

A human might be able to make you believe he is pure wickedness.
Science classifies it as what it is, a Homo Sapien.


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## PCXV (Sep 28, 2017)

MarWan said:


> When we are healthy, have plenty of food , and setting safely in our comfortable homes, we start questioning if God really exists.
> I wonder what would the non believers say when things go wrong and get real serious (getting close to death) say during a flight, or while cruising in the middle of the ocean, or during sickness.
> at that moment when you realize its the end you will instinctively go into autopilot and cry for God's help and start making promises that you'll soon forget if your life gets spared.


What the fuck kind of argument is that?!?! Lmao that is a better argument against god, if anything. "Oh now that I'm desperate, deprived, and my mind is losing all sensibilities, my only impossible hope is some all-powerful being that hasn't saved billions of people before me" or something like that. That is called ego.


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## tyler.durden (Sep 28, 2017)

Heisenberg said:


> What Einstein demonstrated is that energy is equivalent to mass times speed of light squared. What you have stated is the first law of thermodynamics which is accredited to Antoine Lavoisier and Julius Robert Mayer. None of those people claimed to have proved that we never die.
> 
> To quote Ben Radford: "After a person dies, the energy in his or her body goes where all organisms' energy goes after death: into the environment. When a human dies, the energy stored in his or her body is released in the form of heat, and transferred into the animals that eat us (i.e., wild animals if we are left unburied, or worms and bacteria if we are interred), and the plants that absorb us. If we are cremated, the energy in our bodies is released in the form of heat and light."
> 
> ...



Goddamn! This post should have ended the thread. Glad I stumbled over to S&S&P, nice to see you around, Heis. How's life and the pseudo-science site going?


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## PCXV (Sep 29, 2017)

BrewerT said:


> Praise Praise Praise!!! I completely agree! Humans love to return animals to the wild, except for themselves. Humans outside of its natural order has shown its sums. Borders, Nations, Fiat Currencies, Religions, all partake in the division and control of "civilized" human beings. Humans are out of the natural order and this divergence has the capacity to extinct humans. In our natural order, that is so far from a reality that its truly laughable.
> 
> Humans seem to forget, that much of our history, ....in fact, the majority of human history, to our understanding thus far, has been nomadic, natural, and evolving. Now we are stagnant, lumped together against natures will, and rapidly going backwards or towards a extinct fate. So ya, Go America! Go Christianity. This New world order that we live in, is merely slavery really well painted to look like hope...a better tomorrow...except tomorrow never comes. Its the same regimented days, one after another....until your children take your spot in this never ending cycle of human slavery, or you die and the next man takes your spot.! Being in a civilization is the only means to mass slavery. In humans natural order, death would occur long before a life of blind slavery.
> 
> ...


While I agree we have separated ourselves from nature, it has been for the goal of bettering our existence, and in almost every way, it has. What you view as slavery I view as a much better quality of life. Is it imperfect? Sure. Is it rigged? Sure, to some degree. Is it fair? No, but neither is nature. In what ways is it worse than a short life of suffering and loss because of an unreasonable fear of socializing/society?


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## Enigma (Sep 29, 2017)

PCXV said:


> While I agree we have separated ourselves from nature, it has been for the goal of bettering our existence, and in almost every way, it has. What you view as slavery I view as a much better quality of life. Is it imperfect? Sure. Is it rigged? Sure, to some degree. Is it fair? No, but neither is nature. In what ways is it worse than a short life of suffering and loss because of an unreasonable fear of socializing/society?



Some people have a problem "bending the knee".


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## tyler.durden (Sep 29, 2017)

Not my Boyz...


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## BrewerT (Sep 29, 2017)

PCXV said:


> While I agree we have separated ourselves from nature, it has been for the goal of bettering our existence, and in almost every way, it has. What you view as slavery I view as a much better quality of life. Is it imperfect? Sure. Is it rigged? Sure, to some degree. Is it fair? No, but neither is nature. In what ways is it worse than a short life of suffering and loss because of an unreasonable fear of socializing/society?



Its hard to imagine let alone believe, humans have gained a better existence out of becoming a civilized society....especially considering the world currently sits on the fence of total nuclear annihilation. Nature is not fair, but its the order of laws that we NEED and SHOULD be adhering to. ....or you end up with a world on the brink  Just my .02


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## Venus55 (Sep 29, 2017)

PCXV said:


> While I agree we have separated ourselves from nature, it has been for the goal of bettering our existence, and in almost every way, it has. What you view as slavery I view as a much better quality of life. Is it imperfect? Sure. Is it rigged? Sure, to some degree. Is it fair? No, but neither is nature. In what ways is it worse than a short life of suffering and loss because of an unreasonable fear of socializing/society?





BrewerT said:


> Its hard to imagine let alone believe, humans have gained a better existence out of becoming a civilized society....especially considering the world currently sits on the fence of total nuclear annihilation. Nature is not fair, but its the order of laws that we NEED and SHOULD be adhering to. ....or you end up with a world on the brink  Just my .02


It's hard cos u both make valid points.. It's about finding the ever so clichéd "happy medium". Where a _civil, advanced _existence doesn't forfeit the nurture of nature.


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## PCXV (Sep 29, 2017)

BrewerT said:


> Its hard to imagine let alone believe, humans have gained a better existence out of becoming a civilized society....especially considering the world currently sits on the fence of total nuclear annihilation. Nature is not fair, but its the order of laws that we NEED and SHOULD be adhering to. ....or you end up with a world on the brink  Just my .02


Not to argue, but to elaborate my point, by every measure it is better. Longer life, healthier life, less needless death and suffering, modern medicine, modern technology, modern mobility (we can see the world!), space exploration, ocean exploration etc. Pretty amazing imo. We still very much are chained to nature, but we have mitigated the harshness of nature on our being. Of course, people have always been hard on eachother. Nuclear technology is scary, sure, but if it didn't exist would you still hold the same opinion? If we made it through the laws of nature, who's to say we won't make it through the way of man? It is our reasoning ability that separates us from most of nature, and also what can save us from our faults.


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## BrewerT (Sep 29, 2017)

PCXV said:


> Not to argue, but to elaborate my point, by every measure it is better. Longer life, healthier life, less needless death and suffering, modern medicine, modern technology, modern mobility (we can see the world!), space exploration, ocean exploration etc. Pretty amazing imo. We still very much are chained to nature, but we have mitigated the harshness of nature on our being. Of course, people have always been hard on eachother. Nuclear technology is scary, sure, but if it didn't exist would you still hold the same opinion? If we made it through the laws of nature, who's to say we won't make it through the way of man? It is our reasoning ability that separates us from most of nature, and also what can save us from our faults.


Thanks for replying pcxv! You do make some good points. So please allow me a moment to elaborate a bit more.

I do also want to argue against your statement "by every measure it is better". I would imagine you would have a difficult time convincing that viewpoint to say holocaust survivors or say pol pots genocide. These events are the literal costs of massing together. The level of absolute power and control are not possible unless, humans lump together. Yes civilization did intervene ...far to late as always!!...But it is all beside the point...it wouldn't have happened...if humans didn't diverge to an illusion that somehow mans way is better....no other life form except humans fell for that fallacy!
That would never happen to nomads. It would never happen to any animals that are living within the means of the order they were intended to live in.

That being said, the sum of civilization has lead us to this point. Whatever advances that have been made has lead humans to this point. Another cost of this massing is division, to the point of extinction....so in terms of reasoning....how does a human reason that this is all worth it???? Let alone "better" than what nature intends? I simply don't agree it is better in any fashion that is prudent to human survival as a collective whole natural species.

If nuclear arms didn't exist my point is still valid. Humans outside the natural order are humans bound for extinction. Sure there will be advancements....all of which are irrelevant...not just because of nuclear arms, but because humans are forever enslaved to living outside of natures intended laws.....Those laws far more protect humans as a whole species than any civilization has yet to date! The greatest empire of humans....The Romans acknowledge this many years ago, humans are addicted and enslaved to civilizations. The Romans showed just one example of how a whole empire of humans, can , and eventually will, self destruct.

It is literally just Natural Science. Do what natures wants, and perhaps needs its occupants to do...be like every other life form, and have a greater chance at a long term species survival. Thriving and Surviving. I will gladly take Surviving as a species, over a long(er) period of time than what civilization has shown it can offer!


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## Heisenberg (Sep 29, 2017)

tyler.durden said:


> Goddamn! This post should have ended the thread. Glad I stumbled over to S&S&P, nice to see you around, Heis. How's life and the pseudo-science site going?


Hey TD. Nice to see a familiar face!

My life is blissfully boring. Nothing to do all day but watch lectures and listen to podcasts, and I love it! Although I've been letting my podcasts drift ever more into comedy/improv shows and away from science. I even spent 171 hours listening to Nerd Poker, which is comedians playing a long D&D campaign. It was a glorious waste of time.

I'm not as involved in the pseudoscience page these days. Facebook is constantly making changes that make the experience frustrating, and a whole crop of skeptic themed pages exist now, so the message is well represented.

How about you? What strains you liking these days? I'm still doing ak47 x critical mass. It's the bomb but I'm sick of it.

Oh, and just so this post isn't totally off topic, here's a classic.


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## Venus55 (Sep 29, 2017)

Heisenberg said:


> Hey TD. Nice to see a familiar face!
> 
> My life is blissfully boring. Nothing to do all day but watch lectures and listen to podcasts, and I love it! Although I've been letting my podcasts drift ever more into comedy/improv shows and away from science. I even spent 171 hours listening to Nerd Poker, which is comedians playing a long D&D campaign. It was a glorious waste of time.
> 
> ...


Oh haha, BOOM! That guy's awesome!! lol


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## tyler.durden (Sep 29, 2017)

Heisenberg said:


> Hey TD. Nice to see a familiar face!
> 
> My life is blissfully boring. Nothing to do all day but watch lectures and listen to podcasts, and I love it! Although I've been letting my podcasts drift ever more into comedy/improv shows and away from science. I even spent 171 hours listening to Nerd Poker, which is comedians playing a long D&D campaign. It was a glorious waste of time.
> 
> ...


It's great to see you enjoying some recreation. Heis wasting time, who woulda thunk it? Glad to hear the message is going strong out there, I never could get into FB.

All is great by me - the music is going better than ever, both the gigs and my personal evolution as a musician. I started playing classical guitar on top of my violin playing, I fell in love with it and it is eating away at my violin time.

The grow op is doing very well. I finally found a nice indica to round out my stable of beauties, DJ Short's Blueberry (a reco from Stinkbud). I've smoked nothing but BB for the last few months. I'm still growing Trainwreck, OG Kush and Heavy Duty Fruity, but there's nothing like a great indica to unwind at the end of a long day. I'm starting to get into producing solventless dabs, I have pounds of frosty trim on hand and dabs seem more popular and profitable than edibles these days.

I hope to see you around more often. Love that video you posted, I just watched that dude's vids again last week. So entertaining. Is that sexy FB partner of yours still running the site, and still doing her music?


Here's an old fav that is back on YT. Still cracks me up...


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## Heisenberg (Oct 2, 2017)

tyler.durden said:


> It's great to see you enjoying some recreation. Heis wasting time, who woulda thunk it? Glad to hear the message is going strong out there, I never could get into FB.
> 
> All is great by me - the music is going better than ever, both the gigs and my personal evolution as a musician. I started playing classical guitar on top of my violin playing, I fell in love with it and it is eating away at my violin time.
> 
> ...



Haha, can't believe I actually forgot about that one. I rarely get to argue on the topic of atheism these days. I'm stuck arguing about things like homeopathy, flat Earth, vaccines, acupuncture, and GMOs. The problem with atheism is that the arguments never change. Nothing new has been added to the mix in centuries. It's always, always the same old tired arguments which have been refuted a thousand times and which there already exists literately hundreds of pages on the net debunking them. At least when you argue about pseudoscience you occasionally get new information. Of course, you do hear the same old tired arguments used there as well, but there is also often a new study or findings that shed some light on the issues, and new angles which haven't been covered. 

For example, as the term "cognitive bias" enters the public lexicon more and more, so do the misconceptions and lack of nuance surrounding them. People tend to view them as more ammunition that they can use to attack people they don't agree with, rather than see them a source that can be used to check one's own arguments. Here's something I wrote recently on the subject, in case anyone is interested. (https://hatepseudoscience.com/2016/07/12/logical-fallacies-vs-cognitive-biases/) 

My "sexy" FB partner bowed out of the page years ago. She had to get her masters at Oxford and that's one school that does not tolerate distractions. She's currently working on her PHD. She came to stay with me last Thanksgiving and I took her on a tour of the Amish country. Having grown up in London, it was a real culture shock for her. We both decided that the food made by the Amish is so good it actually justifies the indoctrination of an entire group of people. We ate at an Amish buffet where everything on the menu comes within 20 miles of the restaurant. 

I'd love to hear you play guitar sometime. Ever consider uploading something to youtube? Funny what you say about dabs. Around here no one cares. I made tons of bubble hash a few years ago and people couldn't have been less interested. These days my trim gets dumped into the woods with the rest of the trash leaf. 

Here's another one for old time's sake.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 2, 2017)

Heisenberg said:


> Haha, can't believe I actually forgot about that one. I rarely get to argue on the topic of atheism these days. I'm stuck arguing about things like homeopathy, flat Earth, vaccines, acupuncture, and GMOs. The problem with atheism is that the arguments never change. Nothing new has been added to the mix in centuries. It's always, always the same old tired arguments which have been refuted a thousand times and which there already exists literately hundreds of pages on the net debunking them. At least when you argue about pseudoscience you occasionally get new information. Of course, you do hear the same old tired arguments used there as well, but there is also often a new study or findings that shed some light on the issues, and new angles which haven't been covered.


I rarely argue atheism anymore, either, mainly for the same reasons you mentioned. It seems that the trend is toward atheism, or at least away from the dogma of religion. That gives me hope.



> For example, as the term "cognitive bias" enters the public lexicon more and more, so do the misconceptions and lack of nuance surrounding them. People tend to view them as more ammunition that they can use to attack people they don't agree with, rather than see them a source that can be used to check one's own arguments. Here's something I wrote recently on the subject, in case anyone is interested. (https://hatepseudoscience.com/2016/07/12/logical-fallacies-vs-cognitive-biases/)


Excellent article, replete with that Heisenberg clarity and conciseness. It is so valuable to have friends that can recognize one's biases and point them out. How else would we know?



> My "sexy" FB partner bowed out of the page years ago. She had to get her masters at Oxford and that's one school that does not tolerate distractions. She's currently working on her PHD. She came to stay with me last Thanksgiving and I took her on a tour of the Amish country. Having grown up in London, it was a real culture shock for her. We both decided that the food made by the Amish is so good it actually justifies the indoctrination of an entire group of people. We ate at an Amish buffet where everything on the menu comes within 20 miles of the restaurant.


Interesting. At least it seems that you two are still close.



> I'd love to hear you play guitar sometime. Ever consider uploading something to youtube? Funny what you say about dabs. Around here no one cares. I made tons of bubble hash a few years ago and people couldn't have been less interested. These days my trim gets dumped into the woods with the rest of the trash leaf.


It's funny that you say that about hash. I bought a dry sift tumbler and made many ounces of hash from kief, but very few really cared about it so I kept dropping its price to get rid of it. I started making edibles with it, and I plan to make dabs with the rest and with new trim, as everyone is clamoring for it. We'll see.

My guitar playing is not yet impressive, I've only been playing since March of this year. I plan to make a YT channel to share some of my music, mostly violin. But I will also post my guitar playing when it's worth it 



> Here's another one for old time's sake.


Ha! Never saw that one before. Good stuff. I remember you planning to return to university, is that still in the works?


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## rcpilot04401 (Oct 22, 2017)

Of course there is a God...but I don't think we have any idea of what He/She/It is. Just like the afterlife...no one as been there and returned, so how can those christians tell you about heaven, let alone hell...it's funny. But that jesus guy, he was only a man, nothing more.


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## Gafoogle (Nov 26, 2017)

My take on God?

God is - according to English speaking standards - a proper noun. Most likely a name. Do I believe in God? Well be specific. Which God? You know there would be plenty at this point. 

God as described in the Bible? Well, which Bible? 

Just some questions to get you guys thinking. 

I can share. There is an astral space located within Vatican City where a comprehensive collection of books could effectively prove the existence of one singular being joined through all time, space, and matter. Would elaborate if asked a sincere question. But happy to play the game if that's what these discussions on this somewhat reputable forum consistently like to fizzle out...........and out.


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## GreenLogician (Nov 26, 2017)

Gafoogle said:


> There is an astral space located within Vatican City


Why do you believe that?


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Nov 26, 2017)

Gafoogle said:


> My take on God?
> 
> God is - according to English speaking standards - a proper noun. Most likely a name. Do I believe in God? Well be specific. Which God? You know there would be plenty at this point.
> 
> ...


how can more books prove what one can't? people write books, and people edit books.
that's not me trying to be a troll, that's a sincere question.
and i have to ask...an astral space? like a mystical pocket for them to store things in that they don't trust to normal storage?
i must admit to curiosity about how you acquired this information.


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## ScoobyDoo90 (Nov 26, 2017)

I Believe a breakaway civilization came to earth from mars white man, and coexisted with the native beings here Monkey Homosapien's, created new Races through Sex and Gene Splicing, so god to me means multiple things and beings, But i like to keep it Interesting,


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Nov 26, 2017)

ScoobyDoo90 said:


> I Believe a breakaway civilization came to earth from mars white man, and coexisted with the native beings here Monkey Homosapien's, created new Races through Sex and Gene Splicing, so god to me means multiple things and beings, But i like to keep it Interesting,


i'm not sure you actually need any drugs.


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## ScoobyDoo90 (Nov 26, 2017)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> i'm not sure you actually need any drugs.


Jesus was The breakaway Civilizations guy they sent to earth to see how things were going and then they hung him with nails to a cross, so the People on mars they didn't know what to do so they just stayed out of it, and to this day their just chilln at Mars waiting for us to go their and try and build a civilization, so the greates Irony in the universe can occur, Also Marijuana came from Mars, they used it for Medicine and to clean their Nuclear Reactor Meltdowns,


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Nov 26, 2017)

ok, maybe you do need drugs


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## dagwood45431 (Nov 27, 2017)

Gafoogle said:


> My take on God?
> 
> God is - according to English speaking standards - a proper noun. Most likely a name. Do I believe in God? Well be specific. Which God? You know there would be plenty at this point.
> 
> ...


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## Tim Fox (Nov 27, 2017)

This year I witnessed a miracle so profound that I believe in God with all my heart, what I saw and because I lived through it has changed me ,


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## New Age United (Nov 27, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> This year I witnessed a miracle so profound that I believe in God with all my heart, what I saw and because I lived through it has changed me ,


Do you care to share your experience?


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## LostInEthereal (Nov 27, 2017)

ScoobyDoo90 said:


> I Believe a breakaway civilization came to earth from mars white man, and coexisted with the native beings here Monkey Homosapien's, created new Races through Sex and Gene Splicing, so god to me means multiple things and beings, But i like to keep it Interesting,


Lol I'm so glad I read this, this shit cracked me up haha


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## Tim Fox (Nov 27, 2017)

New Age United said:


> Do you care to share your experience?


my wife was horribly sick,, for 2.5 years i watched her suffer,, and suffer and fight thoughts of suicide because she was constantly sick,, worst part,, Kaiser could find NOTHING wrong with her,,, we thought she had lyme desiese because thats what people think when they cant find anything wrong,, i prayed daily nightly, worried about losing our house, being homeless , i prayed for GOD to either heal her or show me whats wrong with her, show me how to help her,,, 
one morning i was lost, we had just been taken for a ride from a natropath for 2000 bucks in one month,, believe me we have spent probably over 100,000 in the past 2.5 years,, 
that morning i am sitting in front of my laptop and i lean over and bang my head on the granite counter,, and say aloud,,, God i am lost,, i am so lost i dont know what to do, i dont know where to go, I am nothing without you, help me, 
at that moment a new idea flooded over , I followed that impulse and it lead us down a 3 month road that got my wife well, 
I was shown something pretty profound, and the funny part is nobody believes me,, sure people close to us are happy she is well, but when i tell then how she got well,, the sorrta wag thier head,, and go on as if nothing happened,, but for me,, to be shown how to get her well ,, 
I used to tell people that i believed in God, i used to tell people I had never seen a miracle, the bible said At this, *Jesus* said, "Because you have seen me, you have *believed*. Blessed are those who *believe without seeing*." ... *Verse* 31 says, "But these [scriptures] are written so that you may *believe Jesus* is the Messiah, the Son of *God*, and by*believing*, you may have life in His Name.
Sure, but i did not get to SEE like those jesus was speaking too,, and my faith wobbled,,, allot
funny thing is,, now i have seen a true miracle ,,, and I beleive solid, ,,,, a few people i have told this story too i clap my hands at the end,, and say " Well played God" I got to see a miracle that nobody else believes in!!!!!!, but it was a miracle for me,, only me and my wife got to see it,,


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## GreenLogician (Nov 27, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> I followed that impulse and it lead us down a 3 month road that got my wife well


Was this the miracle, the surprise idea and impulse that motivated you to try something new which lead to your wife's recovery?
(i.e. Rather than the recovery itself)


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## GreenLogician (Nov 27, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> for 2.5 years i watched her suffer,, and suffer and fight thoughts of suicide





Tim Fox said:


> we have spent probably over 100,000 in the past 2.5 years


If the idea came from divine inspiration, from a loving God who cares about our well-being, don't you think it would have come about 2.5 years earlier?


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Nov 27, 2017)

if it gives him something to hold onto in a tough time, i got no problem with what he believes. i never have any problems with what people believe, as long as they keep it to themselves and don't try to smear it on anyone else


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## Tim Fox (Nov 27, 2017)

GreenLogician said:


> Was this the miracle, the surprise idea and impulse that motivated you to try something new which lead to your wife's recovery?
> (i.e. Rather than the recovery itself)


the miracle is what i was shown that got her well,, i have not revealed what that was to you, and I may not, because you like others probably would not believe it, I wouldnt had i not seen her get well from it, from an illness that didnt show up on any on any tests, because there is no test for it, and for her to get sick from something that we all put in our bodies daily , and this is deemed as safe,,, ya, i would have never found this on my own,,, 
and i am sorry that God doesnt behave in a manner that "you think he should",,, besides the place you describe is heaven,,, not earth


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## Stealthstyle (Nov 27, 2017)

why wasnt any of the hindu gods responsible for the miracle?


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## GreenLogician (Nov 27, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> i am sorry that God doesnt behave in a manner that "you think he should"


It's more about reality not matching how I'd think it should be if a loving God exists.



Tim Fox said:


> i have not revealed what that was to you, and I may not, because you like others probably would not believe it


And you say this is a household item we put in our bodies daily, and it's dangerous but we don't know about it?
I'm skeptical that you would be so uncaring. You'd strive to convince us if you really thought we were in danger, wouldn't you??


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Nov 28, 2017)

maybe they were....maybe there's just one "entity" that is god, and we all perceive it in the terms we're taught as children.....


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Nov 28, 2017)

as far as a "loving god" intervening in our lives, as i understand it, after the flood, we were given free will, and god no longer takes a direct hand in our lives, so they we might develop to our full potential. problems and challenges cause us to grow as people, and as a race.
but the direct result of that is no more holy miracles curing the sick, or parting inconvenient bodies of water


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## Olive Drab Green (Nov 28, 2017)

Stealthstyle said:


> why wasnt any of the hindu gods responsible for the miracle?


Because they are the miracle.


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## Olive Drab Green (Nov 28, 2017)

If none of you believe in God, you should definitely drink Ayahuasca. You come face to face with it very quickly.


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## thump easy (Nov 28, 2017)

BrewerT said:


> Praise Praise Praise!!! I completely agree! Humans love to return animals to the wild, except for themselves. Humans outside of its natural order has shown its sums. Borders, Nations, Fiat Currencies, Religions, all partake in the division and control of "civilized" human beings. Humans are out of the natural order and this divergence has the capacity to extinct humans. In our natural order, that is so far from a reality that its truly laughable.
> 
> Humans seem to forget, that much of our history, ....in fact, the majority of human history, to our understanding thus far, has been nomadic, natural, and evolving. Now we are stagnant, lumped together against natures will, and rapidly going backwards or towards a extinct fate. So ya, Go America! Go Christianity. This New world order that we live in, is merely slavery really well painted to look like hope...a better tomorrow...except tomorrow never comes. Its the same regimented days, one after another....until your children take your spot in this never ending cycle of human slavery, or you die and the next man takes your spot.! Being in a civilization is the only means to mass slavery. In humans natural order, death would occur long before a life of blind slavery.
> 
> ...


Bravo bravo hand clapp
Very true
Whatever happened in the end we r all fucked in the cinamatic flesh movie we experience with our sences we together are part of this machine that is driving under corruption and greed! Life to me is a constant attle with greed of greedy people clinical greed higharce it is a challenge to stay alive. Without being swallowed up used for your knowledge and used for your work theivery of your hard work. It's crazy out their in ever sense trust no one!!!!! Their like vampireens corruption it lives and it's alive in everyplace u see.


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## charface (Dec 2, 2017)

I have no idea about god but after discovering astrotheology. 
I know organized religion are all bulls hit fireplace mechanisms designed to feed themselves off the sheep. 

Yes there are good people involved and if you are happy with it I'm glad. Keep doing it. 

There were several examples of a Savior born of a virgin, died for our sins, came back to life, son of a carpenter all that shot. 
Way before Jesus was allegedly on earth. 

YouTube Jordan Maxwell, astrotheoligy and watch if you are interested. 
The story is simply based on the movement of the zodiac, created to pass on the info. 

Anyway. 
Merry Christmas n stuff.


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## charface (Dec 2, 2017)

Actually this is a good month to find this out. 
Around Dec 22 the sun will appear to stop moving for three days. This is the death. Then it will start to move up again. Resurected. 
Not time for us to plant crops outside that's for sure


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## dagwood45431 (Dec 2, 2017)

charface said:


> Actually this is a good month to find this out.
> Around Dec 22 the sun will appear to stop moving for three days. This is the death. Then it will start to move up again. Resurected.
> Not time for us to plant crops outside that's for sure


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## charface (Dec 2, 2017)

And for the record, I don't believe in a sentient? being that spoke this all into existence.

I don't know what happened but I can't buy that. 

And if he did he clearly could give two shits.
I hope we figure it out though. 
I would love to know where we came from or for sure where we are headed.


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## New Age United (Dec 2, 2017)

charface said:


> And for the record, I don't believe in a sentient? being that spoke this all into existence.
> 
> I don't know what happened but I can't buy that.
> 
> ...


What if it just is? What if god is a complete psychopath? And what if we came from nothing and will return to nothing?


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## charface (Dec 2, 2017)

New Age United said:


> What if it just is? What if god is a complete psychopath? And what if we came from nothing and will return to nothing?


Than that is what it is. 
Why kick against it, I'll just die with a sore foot. 
It is out of my hands if it is or it is not.


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## SensiPuff (Dec 2, 2017)

God and a creator are imaginative solutions for what science has not yet solved. 
Ancient religion was made for civilizations that couldn't understand what was really happening. I.e. the Egyptians believing the sun was connected to the underworld. The sun is our source of life, but is only made of elements. 
Modern religion (Christianity) was started for control and power, to scare people. Perhaps there were many dehydrated and delusional humans in the desert that saw "angels".
Science and evolution are facts. 
Do you beleive in facts or an age old tale that's told for power and control.


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## charface (Dec 2, 2017)

SensiPuff said:


> God and a creator are imaginative solutions for what science has not yet solved.
> Ancient religion was made for civilizations that couldn't understand what was really happening. I.e. the Egyptians believing the sun was connected to the underworld. The sun is our source of life, but is only made of elements.
> Modern religion (Christianity) was started for control and power, to scare people. Perhaps there were many dehydrated and delusional humans in the desert that saw "angels".
> Science and evolution are facts.
> Do you beleive in facts or an age old tale that's told for power and control.


I like what your saying and I really believe the mushroom had much to do with these visions. And probably as you said. 
There's some pretty convincing stuff out there. YouTube again religion and mushroom to see some of the carryover traditions and symbolism still used.


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## New Age United (Dec 2, 2017)

SensiPuff said:


> God and a creator are imaginative solutions for what science has not yet solved.
> Ancient religion was made for civilizations that couldn't understand what was really happening. I.e. the Egyptians believing the sun was connected to the underworld. The sun is our source of life, but is only made of elements.
> Modern religion (Christianity) was started for control and power, to scare people. Perhaps there were many dehydrated and delusional humans in the desert that saw "angels".
> Science and evolution are facts.
> Do you beleive in facts or an age old tale that's told for power and control.


Yes god of the gaps, but I can not help but ponder the possibility of a conscious creator. Of course yes I see that religion is designed for control over the masses but I still see great truth and wisdom in all these ancient texts.


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## SensiPuff (Dec 2, 2017)

I wish more ancient texts were saved, a lot was lost when the library of Alexandria was burned. 
If there is a creator, he would be a mad man that likes magnetism, massive extremes, and complexity. There is so much we don't quite understand in physics. How electromagnetism completely functions, quantum physics. How time and gravity tie together on the cosmic graph. What is space expanding into? Lots of questions to be asked. 
Personally I don't believe the creator option because who created the creator


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## charface (Dec 2, 2017)

I know I can't comprehend it but my brain refuses to stop trying. Something happening before anything is an impossible concept but in my mind it must have been? Lol


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## SensiPuff (Dec 2, 2017)

Haha better twist one up and think harder


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## MarWan (Dec 2, 2017)

charface said:


> Actually this is a good month to find this out.
> *Around Dec 22 the sun will appear to stop moving for three days*. This is the death. Then it will start to move up again. Resurected.
> Not time for us to plant crops outside that's for sure


will you please explain, 22nd will be Friday.


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## charface (Dec 2, 2017)

MarWan said:


> will you please explain, 22nd will be Friday.






After the initial presentation the lecturer that starts jabbering I don't care for. He tends to stretch shit a bit too much.


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## charface (Dec 2, 2017)

Here is probably the easiest understood. Very interesting if you have any knowledge of the Bible. 
This will blow it right up.


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## MarWan (Dec 2, 2017)

the first one is very lengthy and might put me to sleep , the second one is not bad. thanks, I really appreciate it.


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## charface (Dec 2, 2017)

MarWan said:


> the first one is very lengthy and might put me to sleep , the second one is not bad. thanks, I really appreciate it.


No problem, Not only is the first one long but just when you think its over he starts taking questions and it gets even better, lol


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## RetiredGuerilla (Dec 2, 2017)

We live on a flat earth under God's dome called a firmament. Around the edges of the dome is a ice wall or Antarctica. If you head south from any point on the earth you come to Antarctica. Above the North Pole is polaris or North Star which time lapse video shows all the stars in the sky rotate around it. We all know that water always finds it's level. You heard of sea level? If the earth is more than 70% ocean then how can we be living on a spinning globe? The surface of water does not curve. There is no gravity only density displacement. Gravity is a bullshit word you been indoctrinated with. Higher density objects fall faster than lower density objects of equal size. NASA is a scam there is no "outer space" or moon landing. What a freakin joke ! You been duped. They can't produce a image of the earth from outer space that isn't C.G.I. Let's go back. During the 1950's under Admiral Byrd much exploration was done in Antarctica such as operation high jump. They climbed the ice wall that holds in the oceans and began their work. What did they find? Why did they insist on a international Antarctic treaty shortly there after? I might add Byrd died mysteriously in his sleep in 1957. Antarctica is basically off limits to this day. In 1962 in the South Pacific during operation Fish Bowl those bastards (US Military/NASA) tried many times but failed to blast a hole in the dome with nuclear warheads including a "Thor" missile. Wernher Von Braun was the greatest rocket scientist to ever live. He built the Saturn 5 and the V-2 for the Nazi's and certainly would have been part of the ahem........"high altitude nuclear testing" team. He requested Psalms 19:1 be placed on his tombstone. "The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament sheweth his handy work".


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## Padawanbater2 (Dec 4, 2017)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> We live on a flat earth


No, _we live on a spherical Earth_


RetiredGuerilla said:


> If you head south from any point on the earth you come to Antarctica.


Then how would you still hit the ice wall of Antarctica if you head _north _from Canada?


RetiredGuerilla said:


> If the earth is more than 70% ocean then how can we be living on a spinning globe?


_Gravity _keeps water (and everything else) on Earth even though the Earth rotates at something like 1,000mph. Spinning a basketball on your finger isn't the same since it doesn't have the same _mass_, its gravitational pull is virtually immeasurable on Earth


RetiredGuerilla said:


> Gravity is a bullshit word you been indoctrinated with.


Gravity is scientifically verifiable. If it wasn't, projects like the International Space Station would be impossible


RetiredGuerilla said:


> Higher density objects fall faster than lower density objects of equal size.


This is NASA Commander David Scott on Apollo 15 testing your theory;






What do you make of that?


RetiredGuerilla said:


> NASA is a scam there is no "outer space" or moon landing. What a freakin joke ! You been duped. They can't produce a image of the earth from outer space that isn't C.G.I. Let's go back. During the 1950's under Admiral Byrd much exploration was done in Antarctica such as operation high jump. They climbed the ice wall that holds in the oceans and began their work. What did they find? Why did they insist on a international Antarctic treaty shortly there after? I might add Byrd died mysteriously in his sleep in 1957. Antarctica is basically off limits to this day. In 1962 in the South Pacific during operation Fish Bowl those bastards (US Military/NASA) tried many times but failed to blast a hole in the dome with nuclear warheads including a "Thor" missile. Wernher Von Braun was the greatest rocket scientist to ever live. He built the Saturn 5 and the V-2 for the Nazi's and certainly would have been part of the ahem........"high altitude nuclear testing" team. He requested Psalms 19:1 be placed on his tombstone. "The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament sheweth his handy work".


What's stopping someone from going to the Antarctic wall and taking picture/video evidence of the edge of the flat Earth?


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## RetiredGuerilla (Dec 6, 2017)

Water does not curve. The navy uses infrared beams to track targets over the open ocean from several hundred miles away. A light beam does not curve. NASA is a fraud. Hmmmm they haven't been to the moon since 1972. They can't produce a photo of the earth from outer space that isn't fake. Don't be so gullible McFly...NO SUCH THING OF GRAVITY !!! We have only density displacement.


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## charface (Dec 6, 2017)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> Water does not curve. The navy uses infrared beams to track targets over the open ocean from several hundred miles away. A light beam does not curve. NASA is a fraud. Hmmmm they haven't been to the moon since 1972. They can't produce a photo of the earth from outer space that isn't fake. Don't be so gullible McFly...NO SUCH THING OF GRAVITY !!! We have only density displacement.


I don't do flat earth but have always wondered as far as this conspiracy goes, why would it be important for them to mislead us about the earths shape?


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## GreenLogician (Dec 6, 2017)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> They can't produce a photo of the earth from outer space that isn't fake.


Rather, it's just that you tell yourself that it's fake every time you see one. Here's one of many taken by the Apollo missions, Apollo 8


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## GreenLogician (Dec 6, 2017)

Well that photo link didn't work so check out hundreds of them here
https://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/SearchPhotos/ShowQueryResults-CoolIris.pl?results=EarthDisc


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## charface (Dec 6, 2017)

I see the first large pic pf the earth so You have it covered.

I almost posted a link to a kids page of someone spinning a bucket of water
But I then realized I don`t believe flat earth but I`m not smart enough to prove it.

With all my heart though I want to think flat earthers are just trolling.
However I have a super intelligent friend who actually believes it.

So I`m now convinced it is a genetic flaw like cleft pallet or little titties.
Seacrest out!


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## RetiredGuerilla (Dec 7, 2017)

That photo is fake. Notice how you never see stars in the photos? It's because star mappers would call them out on their B.S. Architects don't account for earth curvature neither do engineers who build roads and bridges. Ships on the open ocean use plane trigonometry to navigate NOT SPHERICAL TRIG. You ever seen a leveler that a carpenter uses? Well it has water in it because water always finds it's level. Now you will tell me you don't believe in trigonometry.


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## BudmanTX (Dec 7, 2017)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> That photo is fake. Notice how you never see stars in the photos? It's because star mappers would call them out on their B.S. Architects don't account for earth curvature neither do engineers who build roads and bridges. Ships on the open ocean use plane trigonometry to navigate NOT SPHERICAL TRIG. You ever seen a leveler that a carpenter uses? Well it has water in it because water always finds it's level. Now you will tell me you don't believe in trigonometry.


no offence, but when was the last time you saw STS footage? just curious


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## RetiredGuerilla (Dec 7, 2017)

Visit a port city with a telescope. You will not see the top of ships slowly appearing over the horizon. Supposedly the earth curves 8 inches squared every mile. The surface of the ocean does not curve. Water always finds it's level.


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## RetiredGuerilla (Dec 7, 2017)

charface said:


> I don't do flat earth but have always wondered as far as this conspiracy goes, why would it be important for them to mislead us about the earths shape?


They want you to think your life is meaningless. That you are a accident and to keep you away from God. Why is it that everyone goes to Church on Sunday when the sabbath is saturday.


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## SensiPuff (Dec 7, 2017)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> Visit a port city with a telescope. You will not see the top of ships slowly appearing over the horizon. Supposedly the earth curves 8 inches squared every mile. The surface of the ocean does not curve. Water always finds it's level.


I don't agree because what makes water level? Gravity. You have an equal force of gravity across the entire ocean sucking it to the earth like a blanket. 
The surface of the ocean does curve. Unless you live in a pineapple under the sea...


----------



## charface (Dec 7, 2017)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> They want you to think your life is meaningless. That you are a accident and to keep you away from God. Why is it that everyone goes to Church on Sunday when the sabbath is saturday.


Those bastards, my new thing is to ask what you mean by God.
I'm being serious. If someone wishes to impart god I at least need to know what that is. If you don't mind of course


----------



## RetiredGuerilla (Dec 7, 2017)

Once you understand density displacement you don't need gravity. It's like some of you never read the first post. I don't claim to have all the answers about a supreme being, creation or our creator but i know what you were taught about the earth is a lie. The apple hit Newton on the head not because of gravity but because the apple was more dense than the air. Helium sends a balloon up because it's less dense than the air. A steel ball hits the ground before a golf ball if dropped at the same time from equal distance because it's more dense. The golf ball would hit before a paper ball. Once again ....Density displacement.


----------



## charface (Dec 7, 2017)

So how does a flat or round earth make my life more or less meaningful and how does that relate to god?

Work with me you have to admit this 
Sounds crazy. 
Extreme claims require extreme proof. 

To me there has to be an end game for all those people to try to pull this off.


----------



## charface (Dec 7, 2017)

I think what I'm reading is that you possibly don't know why this flat earth conspiracy has happened but you feel strongly that it is true. 

Fair enough


----------



## RetiredGuerilla (Dec 7, 2017)

The government wants you to worship and believe in them over the bible. They want to pull you away from God. Freemasons are behind this is my guess. Look at the demonic symbols on money, the flag and in Washington D.C.


----------



## BudmanTX (Dec 7, 2017)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> Once you understand density displacement you don't need gravity. It's like some of you never read the first post. I don't claim to have all the answers about a supreme being, creation or our creator but i know what you were taught about the earth is a lie. The apple hit Newton on the head not because of gravity but because the apple was more dense than the air. Helium sends a balloon up because it's less dense than the air. A steel ball hits the ground before a golf ball if dropped at the same time from equal distance because it's more dense. The golf ball would hit before a paper ball. Once again ....Density displacement.


now this is about the wildest claim i have ever seen......really dude.....

density displacement and gravity work hand in hand. The denser then item the fast it gets pulled aka gravity....think you might need to ready newton law on gravity a tad....


----------



## RetiredGuerilla (Dec 7, 2017)

Look up gravity in your dictionary it means serious. Ships don't disappear over the horizon due to curvature. Get a telescope and see for yourself. You accept everything you been told about earth on blind faith. You don't really think man went to the moon do you?


----------



## BudmanTX (Dec 7, 2017)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> Look up gravity in your dictionary it means serious. Ships don't disappear over the horizon due to curvature. Get a telescope and see for yourself. You accept everything you been told about earth on blind faith. You don't really think man went to the moon do you?


you know you can take that telescope and look up, you tell me what u see..what the moon moves, why yes, wonder why, hmmmm If we didn't have gravity we as human beings would just be flying around aka the moon no gravity. How so you explain black holes, neutron stars etc. I know cause i look, i study and yes i do read. Yes, the man did go to the moon, that conspiracy has been around a long time, but when your face to face with the pictures and the film, also with the astronuats that were there its hard to disprove. If your worried about curvature, why don't you take peak at the NASA channel when STS is flying around, or hell just go to the internation space stations web site and you can sit there and watch it.......

P.S the bible isn't complete hows that for a conspiracy theory

P.S i do have a telescope, quiet nice actually


----------



## RetiredGuerilla (Dec 7, 2017)

Then you know all the stars rotate around polaris which is stationary right? Tell me how Armstrong was able to communicate with Houston as Apollo 11 was landing on the moon while basically sitting on top of a jet engine. The Eagle has landed. HAHAHAHA yeah right. Do you know how many decibels a jet engine operates at? Have some more kool-aid. Only density displacement NO GRAVITY !!! Take a flight from Melbourne Australia to Santiago Chile. Why doesn't the flight path go over Antarctica to save time and fuel?


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## charface (Dec 7, 2017)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> Then you know all the stars rotate around polaris which is stationary right? Tell me how Armstrong was able to communicate with Houston as Apollo 11 was landing on the moon while basically sitting on top of a jet engine. The Eagle has landed. HAHAHAHA yeah right. Do you know how many decibels a jet engine operates at? Have some more kool-aid. Only density displacement NO GRAVITY !!! Take a flight from Melbourne Australia to Santiago Chile. Why doesn't the flight path go over Antarctica to save time and fuel?


I didn't think the engines would rumble in space due to no atmosphere. But I may be wrong about that.
The source I'm citing is the voice over for the movie aliens where they stated.
"in space no one can hear you scream"


----------



## RetiredGuerilla (Dec 7, 2017)

If the earth curved you would NOT be able to see the Chicago skyline across Lake Michigan from St. Joseph Michigan on a clear day. As far as the great lakes go they DO NOT have tides like the oceans do. That fact makes this writer skeptical of the moon influencing the tides.


----------



## gully (Dec 7, 2017)

If God does exist what the hell made him? Everything has a beginning, I can't wrap my head around the "fact" that God just exists. No beginning and no end


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## Canadian Farmer (Dec 7, 2017)

Organized religion is a tool for ignorance, power and control.


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## charface (Dec 7, 2017)

Canadian Farmer said:


> Organized religion is a tool for ignorance, power and control.


Neil before ZOD!!!


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## Padawanbater2 (Dec 8, 2017)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> If the earth curved you would NOT be able to see the Chicago skyline across Lake Michigan from St. Joseph Michigan on a clear day.


The Chicago skyline across Lake Michigan;


----------



## BudmanTX (Dec 8, 2017)

i just had to put this here


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## RetiredGuerilla (Dec 8, 2017)

Talk about a con look at NASA and the billions they get for computer graphic images. During the eclipse in August i was in the area of totality and a thought occurred to me after i witnessed that amazing event. What are the odds of the moon and sun appearing to be the EXACT same size when the sun is 400 times further away? Hmmm...there is much we don't know my ganja brethren.


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## Padawanbater2 (Dec 8, 2017)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> What are the odds of the moon and sun appearing to be the EXACT same size when the sun is 400 times further away?


They don't always appear to be the exact same size, that's only when a *total solar eclipse* occurs

This is what's called an *annular solar eclipse*:


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## abalonehx (Dec 8, 2017)

Padawanbater2 said:


> The Chicago skyline across Lake Michigan;



But, but...tides come in, tides go out - you can't explain that!


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## RetiredGuerilla (Dec 8, 2017)

Tides could be caused by anything besides the make believe word GRAVITY.


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## Padawanbater2 (Dec 8, 2017)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> Tides could be caused by anything besides the make believe word GRAVITY.


What about the annular solar eclipse? 

You commented that it's a weird coincidence that the Moon and Sun appear to be the same size during a total solar eclipse. I showed you evidence that's not always the case. So address that point


----------



## Venus55 (Dec 8, 2017)

Does all this ^^^ really matter tho? How does it or will it benefit our existence on earth/our personal day-to-day life? It certainly won't prove or disprove if there really is a god? ....Idk just saying..


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## Padawanbater2 (Dec 8, 2017)

Venus55 said:


> Does all this ^^^ really matter tho?


All what?


----------



## MarWan (Dec 8, 2017)

Venus55 said:


> Does all this ^^^ really matter tho? How does it or will it benefit our existence on earth/our personal day-to-day life? It certainly won't prove or disprove if there really is a god? ....Idk just saying..


You could just read and move on, I enjoy reading the debate here, food for thought, I like entertaining my mind more than my dick, just saying.


----------



## Venus55 (Dec 9, 2017)

Padawanbater2 said:


> All what?





MarWan said:


> You could just read and move on, I enjoy reading the debate here, food for thought, I like entertaining my mind more than my dick, just saying.


Round earth, flat earth, Gravity vs density displacement, eclipses, tides. How does knowing one or the other effect your day to day life? Or how does that knowledge "enrich" your life?
Does it bring u any closer to the "God" truth? After all that is what this thread is about isn't it @MarWan. No ones asking u to entertain your dick are they? What relevance that comment had I don't know? And by asking the question I did, I too was entertaining my "mind". Who are u to tell me I can't ask what motivates the discussion? Exactly. 
It really isn't necessary to be rude.


----------



## gully (Dec 9, 2017)

MarWan said:


> You could just read and move on, I enjoy reading the debate here, food for thought, I like entertaining my mind more than my dick, just saying.


They both sound incredibly small. Isn't there a flat earther thread?


----------



## Venus55 (Dec 9, 2017)

gully said:


> They both sound incredibly small. Isn't there a flat earther thread?


Yep!


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## charface (Dec 9, 2017)

gully said:


> They both sound incredibly small.


Now that was funny..


----------



## MarWan (Dec 9, 2017)

Venus55 said:


> Round earth, flat earth, Gravity vs density displacement, eclipses, tides. How does knowing one or the other effect your day to day life? Or how does that knowledge "enrich" your life?


Really?



Venus55 said:


> Does it bring u any closer to the "God" truth? After all that is what this thread is about isn't it @MarWan. No ones asking u to entertain your dick are they? What relevance that comment had I don't know? And by asking the question I did, I too was entertaining my "mind". Who are u to tell me I can't ask what motivates the discussion? Exactly.


stick to showing your beautiful body which God gave you to entertain some dicks  , enjoy it while it lasts.



Venus55 said:


> It really isn't necessary to be rude.


get used to it.


----------



## MarWan (Dec 9, 2017)

gully said:


> They both sound incredibly small. Isn't there a flat earther thread?


that's because your butthole got used to fisting.


----------



## Venus55 (Dec 9, 2017)

MarWan said:


> Really?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes. Really. It's not an unreasonable question. I'd be very interested in hearing/reading your response. 

By your response thus far it's quite obvious u trawl for conflict "war man". Rest assured u won't find it with me.


----------



## gully (Dec 9, 2017)

MarWan said:


> Really?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for confirming my first impression of you.


----------



## GreenLogician (Dec 11, 2017)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> That photo is fake. Notice how you never see stars in the photos?


If you could see the stars with something so bright in the foreground, THAT would be suspicious.



RetiredGuerilla said:


> It's because star mappers would call them out on their B.S.


You think there's a giant government conspiracy that faked the photo, but they wouldn't bother using a real sky?
You could just take a picture of the sky and superimpose it behind the Earth, I could photoshop that in easy peasy.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Dec 11, 2017)

Venus55 said:


> Round earth, flat earth, Gravity vs density displacement, eclipses, tides. How does knowing one or the other effect your day to day life? Or how does that knowledge "enrich" your life?
> Does it bring u any closer to the "God" truth? After all that is what this thread is about isn't it


I think it absolutely affects day to day life. But more importantly, I think knowledge of this stuff helps you understand the things that come after. It's kinda like math, you can't really understand multiplication without first understanding addition. The things you learn _that come after_ accepting basic scientific facts like the Earth is round (spherical) absolutely depend on understanding how and _why_ the Earth is round. My own personal love for the exploration of space was borne in the Gemini program. Learning about the advancements in technology and the personal human sacrifices to get us into orbit was incredibly inspiring. The work it took by thousands of people to get us to the Moon is nothing short of miraculous. So for someone to discredit all the work all those people put into it.._ is just sad_. 


Venus55 said:


> @MarWan. No ones asking u to entertain your dick are they? What relevance that comment had I don't know? And by asking the question I did, I too was entertaining my "mind". Who are u to tell me I can't ask what motivates the discussion? Exactly.
> It really isn't necessary to be rude.


That guy is a dick. Thanks for contributing


----------



## RetiredGuerilla (Dec 11, 2017)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I think it absolutely affects day to day life. But more importantly, I think knowledge of this stuff helps you understand the things that come after. It's kinda like math, you can't really understand multiplication without first understanding addition. The things you learn _that come after_ accepting basic scientific facts like the Earth is round (spherical) absolutely depend on understanding how and _why_ the Earth is round. My own personal love for the exploration of space was borne in the Gemini program. Learning about the advancements in technology and the personal human sacrifices to get us into orbit was incredibly inspiring. The work it took by thousands of people to get us to the Moon is nothing short of miraculous. So for someone to discredit all the work all those people put into it.._ is just sad_.
> 
> That guy is a dick. Thanks for contributing


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## RetiredGuerilla (Dec 11, 2017)

Well, well, well Mr. Super sci fi fantasy guy NASA has a embarrassing situation on their hands. They say they have lost the technology to go to the moon !! Look at the Apollo 11 moon landing photos and honestly ask yourself if that garbage is real or fake. It's so stupid looking its laughable. Stanley Kubrick produced the landing. Then the astronauts passed off space rocks that were later tested and proven to be bullshit. Have some kool aid its Jim jones favorite flavor killer cherry yum yum


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## Padawanbater2 (Dec 11, 2017)

If NASA lost the technology to go to the Moon, how did they accomplish landing on Titan?


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## RetiredGuerilla (Dec 11, 2017)

Padawanbater2 said:


> If NASA lost the technology to go to the Moon, how did they accomplish landing on Titan?


They never landed any where ! U-2 spy pilots and other hi altitude pilots have to wear pressurized suits to prevent their blood from boiling. Yet NASA shows you some dorks with their hair sticking up wearing khaki pants and socks saying they are 100's of miles above earth. Hmmm what makes these jokers immuned?Come on man !


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## Padawanbater2 (Dec 11, 2017)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> They never landed any where !


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## RetiredGuerilla (Dec 11, 2017)

Padawanbater2 said:


>


You live in a domed system created by god. This dome can not be penetrated by anything man made. It repelled nuclear war heads during operation fish bowl in 1962 that created auroras in the dome at the blast site as well as the opposite hemi-sphere. Our dome is electrically charged and it powers the stars moon and sun. Embrace the beauty of our creator.


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## Padawanbater2 (Dec 11, 2017)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> You live in a domed system created by god. This dome can not be penetrated by anything man made. It repelled nuclear war heads during operation fish bowl in 1962 that created auroras in the dome at the blast site as well as the opposite hemi-sphere. Our dome is electrically charged and it powers the stars moon and sun. Embrace the beauty of our creator.


You're a crazy person


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## RetiredGuerilla (Dec 11, 2017)

GreenLogician said:


> If you could see the stars with something so bright in the foreground, THAT would be suspicious.
> 
> 
> You think there's a giant government conspiracy that faked the photo, but they wouldn't bother using a real sky?
> You could just take a picture of the sky and superimpose it behind the Earth, I could photoshop that in easy peasy.


The moon landing pix were taken in 1969 dude


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## RetiredGuerilla (Dec 11, 2017)

Padawanbater2 said:


> You're a crazy person


You believe in science fiction not me. You have been indoctrinated. Get some original land race strains it will flush out the brain wash and introduce you to non-conformity.


----------



## GreenLogician (Dec 11, 2017)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> The moon landing pix were taken in 1969 dude


So they didn't have the ability to doctor photos, you now say? There goes your claim that all the photos are fake.


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## VILEPLUME (Feb 4, 2018)

An open mind is always a good thing. We see but haven’t evolved or maybe will never evolve to understand everything. For me to rule out God, divine being, etc, would be saying I fully understand.


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 4, 2018)

VILEPLUME said:


> An open mind is always a good thing. We see but haven’t evolved or maybe will never evolve to understand everything. For me to rule out God, divine being, etc, would be saying I fully understand.


God can't be ruled out, but the probability is very low. Specific gods like Jesus can easily be ruled out.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Feb 4, 2018)

VILEPLUME said:


> An open mind is always a good thing. We see but haven’t evolved or maybe will never evolve to understand everything. For me to rule out God, divine being, etc, would be saying I fully understand.


Nobody "fully understands". Anyone who says they do is lying. We have to ask ourselves _*why*_ they're lying. Their motives expose their agenda. If ever a $ sign comes into play, you know they're lying.


----------



## eye exaggerate (Feb 5, 2018)

"(Bohm) summarizes the idea of the implicate order as follows:

The essential feature of this idea was that the whole universe is in some way enfolded in everything and that each thing is enfolded in the whole. From this it follows that in some way, and to some degree everything enfolds or implicates everything, but in such a manner that under typical conditions of ordinary experience, there is a great deal of relative independence of things. The basic proposal is then that this enfoldment relationship is not merely passive or superficial. Rather, it is active and essential to what each thing is. It follows that each thing is internally related to the whole, and therefore, to everything else. The external relationships are then displayed in the unfolded or explicate order in which each thing is seen, as has already indeed been indicated, as relatively separate and extended, and related only externally to other things. The explicate order, which dominates ordinary experience as well as classical (Newtonian) physics, thus appears to stand by itself. But actually, it cannot be understood properly apart from its ground in the primary reality of the implicate order.[31]"

^ a closer understanding of how something comes from "nothing"?


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## Beefbisquit (Feb 5, 2018)

100% atheist right here.


----------



## Heisenberg (Feb 5, 2018)

VILEPLUME said:


> An open mind is always a good thing. We see but haven’t evolved or maybe will never evolve to understand everything. For me to rule out God, divine being, etc, would be saying I fully understand.


This is what we call agnostic. A gnostic person says that they know. An agnostic says that they don't know. Many people would describe themselves as agnostic.

The confusing thing is that knowing someone is agnostic still doesn't tell you if they are a theist or an atheist. That's because theism is about belief, not knowledge. Knowledge is a subset of belief. You don't need to have knowledge of something before you can believe in it. So, we can have people who admit they do not fully understand everything, but still believe in God, and people who say they do not fully understand everything, but still are not convinced of God.

I am an agnostic atheist. I have no knowledge of God, and I also have no belief in a God.


----------



## Beefbisquit (Feb 5, 2018)

Heisenberg said:


> This is what we call agnostic. A gnostic person says that they know. An agnostic says that they don't know. Many people would describe themselves as agnostic.
> 
> The confusing thing is that knowing someone is agnostic still doesn't tell you if they are a theist or an atheist. That's because theism is about belief, not knowledge. Knowledge is a subset of belief. You don't need to have knowledge of something before you can believe in it. So, we can have people who admit they do not fully understand everything, but still believe in God, and people who say they do not fully understand everything, but still are not convinced of God.
> 
> I am an agnostic atheist. I have no knowledge of God, and I also have no belief in a God.


Heya Heis, nice to see you kickin' around.


----------



## SageFromZen (Feb 5, 2018)

See, I was dead on the table 6:47(That's six minutes forty seven seconds), when the defibrillator brought me back. I was awake and lucid during those near seven minutes... and there are no pearly gates nor fire of a Hell nor cherubs nor St Peter and certainly no omnipotent bearded guy in a robe. It isn't a human experience. It is an energetic experience. There is no God. What lies over there is not what you think it is.


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## Padawanbater2 (Feb 6, 2018)

When it happened to me, the lights just went out, it wasn't good or bad, it was just it. That's it. That's what I think death is like, the lights just go out, that's it.


----------



## eye exaggerate (Feb 6, 2018)

In order to believe in a *god or not believe in a *god, you must first define it.

Everyone has their own way of describing life, so, naturally this can get messy (many people who believe in a first cause (which is a scientific notion to begin with) are not to be labelled Christian.) (Those people have always described a *god as energy, potentiality, UM, etc.)

Maybe threads like this need a goal post, or it's the same deal over again. Paradoxically, though, it fits. Much in the same way as Tao (...), it's no longer there once it is defined.

That sounds very wave / particle.

Either way, I guess that points to respectful dialogue if a person has common sense.


----------



## SageFromZen (Feb 6, 2018)

It is indeed subject to one's personal interpretation. What I do find amusing though is that when we in the Science/Physics community don't have an answer for something, we own it. We say, we don't know the answer. Philosophical Belief and Religion not only have the answer(s), they k-n-o-w the answer(s).


----------



## GreenLogician (Feb 6, 2018)

eye exaggerate said:


> many people who believe in a first cause (which is a scientific notion to begin with)


Pretty sure it's not, it's purely a notion of theological apologetics, ancient religious philosophy. There no evidence or reason to think such a thing would exist in the world of science, there are just things like the old arguments of Aquinas, where he claims an infinite past is absurd, without explaining how.


----------



## abalonehx (Feb 6, 2018)

SageFromZen said:


> It is indeed subject to one's personal interpretation. What I do find amusing though is that when we in the Science/Physics community don't have an answer for something, we own it. We say, we don't know the answer. Philosophical Belief and Religion not only have the answer(s), they k-n-o-w the answer(s).


This, of course. All religions define their God. There's zero proof or evidence for any of it.
The scientific answer to 'does anything exist outside of the natural world that we know?' is we don't have any evidence of any such thing. End of argument for me.


----------



## eye exaggerate (Feb 7, 2018)

abalonehx said:


> This, of course. All religions define their God. There's zero proof or evidence for any of it.
> The scientific answer to 'does anything exist outside of the natural world that we know?' is we don't have any evidence of any such thing. End of argument for me.


Read again, you completely missed the point.

re: proof - In no way did I discuss proof. You need it? Cool. Makes no difference to me.


----------



## eye exaggerate (Feb 7, 2018)

GreenLogician said:


> Pretty sure it's not, it's purely a notion of theological apologetics, ancient religious philosophy. There no evidence or reason to think such a thing would exist in the world of science, there are just things like the old arguments of Aquinas, where he claims an infinite past is absurd, without explaining how.


100% scientific notion. Early religious endeavours tended to all BUT theology.


----------



## eye exaggerate (Feb 7, 2018)

SageFromZen said:


> It is indeed subject to one's personal interpretation. What I do find amusing though is that when we in the Science/Physics community don't have an answer for something, we own it. We say, we don't know the answer. Philosophical Belief and Religion not only have the answer(s), they k-n-o-w the answer(s).


Why do you say "we in the science / physics community"? Higgs himself discuss his counterparts that have a belief in a *god, and goes on to say that it is not incompatible with science. He said that he could well have been in the same spot had he been born into a different family.

I take his word to heart a little more so than those in the *community, ones that he referred to as "embarrassing".


----------



## jonsnow399 (Feb 7, 2018)

eye exaggerate said:


> Why do you say "we in the science / physics community"? Higgs himself discuss his counterparts that have a belief in a *god, and goes on to say that it is not incompatible with science. He said that he could well have been in the same spot had he been born into a different family.
> 
> I take his word to heart a little more so than those in the *community, ones that he referred to as "embarrassing".


Higgs was wrong.


----------



## SageFromZen (Feb 7, 2018)

eye exaggerate said:


> Why do you say "we in the science / physics community"? Higgs himself discuss his counterparts that have a belief in a *god, and goes on to say that it is not incompatible with science. He said that he could well have been in the same spot had he been born into a different family.
> 
> I take his word to heart a little more so than those in the *community, ones that he referred to as "embarrassing".


I say it that way because I am in with a small group that study the physics behind tectonic movement. The Electric Universe Summit takes place in Albuquerque this month and I will be present as well.

http://www.observatoryproject.com/otf2018.html

So when I say "We in the science/physics community" I am referring to my Mensa cohorts. "God" only applies to those of a 130 Intellectual Quota and below.


----------



## eye exaggerate (Feb 7, 2018)

jonsnow399 said:


> Higgs was wrong.


How so?


----------



## eye exaggerate (Feb 7, 2018)

SageFromZen said:


> I say it that way because I am in with a small group that study the physics behind tectonic movement. The Electric Universe Summit takes place in Albuquerque this month and I will be present as well.
> 
> http://www.observatoryproject.com/otf2018.html
> 
> So when I say "We in the science/physics community" I am referring to my Mensa cohorts. "God" only applies to those of a 130 Intellectual Quota and below.


Slight point of contention with the notion that 130 and below is a "god" category. I've known multiple-PhD scientists who didn't worry much about Mensa because they were concerned with solving world-wide health issues with WHO, UNRWA, etc etc etc. These folks were also concerned with what lies behind empirical reality - call that what you will.

I don't care to talk about what being a part of something "could" mean, but you brought the M word in lol.


----------



## chiqifella (Feb 7, 2018)

no god. Pig humanoids lived on mars mined earth fucked up mars, then gmo'd some earthling monkey types "in their image". they loved sexing up our children and making babies with them, and here we are, children of those pig masked self proclaimed gods and their dirty dna.
Those pig miners still got you all believing the dog masked assholes were gods...while you tithe up your daughters, slaughters and gold lol


----------



## eye exaggerate (Feb 7, 2018)

Random question:

what is the point between thought and matter?


----------



## SageFromZen (Feb 7, 2018)

eye exaggerate said:


> Slight point of contention with the notion that 130 and below is a "god" category. I've known multiple-PhD scientists who didn't worry much about Mensa because they were concerned with solving world-wide health issues with WHO, UNRWA, etc etc etc. These folks were also concerned with what lies behind empirical reality - call that what you will.
> 
> I don't care to talk about what being a part of something "could" mean, but you brought the M word in lol.


Hehehehe... yes I did. Hope I didn't offend anybody.


----------



## SageFromZen (Feb 7, 2018)

eye exaggerate said:


> Random question:
> 
> what is the point between thought and matter?


Are you making reference to Casmir Force and/or Zero Point Field within a vacuum state?


----------



## eye exaggerate (Feb 7, 2018)

SageFromZen said:


> Are you making reference to Casmir Force and/or Zero Point Field within a vacuum state?


Sounds like a Rodin / Haramein lead-in.

Funny thing, Rodin coils came up in my FB after reading your post.



I was referring to our interactions with each of them. I suppose the next question to ask would be - what is the point between quantity and quality.

*intersted to hear about the stuff you work on.


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## ANC (Feb 7, 2018)

God doesn't believe in you though.


----------



## Billiam76 (Feb 7, 2018)

[what is the point between quantity and quality.

More is better until it isn't:
 when less is more; 

better is better until ....................



eye exaggerate said:


> what is the point between quantity and quality.


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## Heisenberg (Feb 8, 2018)

While there have been quite a few studies conducted over several decades suggesting that higher intelligence correlates with lower tendency toward religiosity, I don't think it's fair to suggest there is some stark demarcation line between 129 and 130. Studies have also shown that factors like culture, family upbringing and status have considerable influence as well. What seems to transcend all these factors, to a certain degree, is education. If a person is willing and able to learn about nature, they tend to see less and less value in the explanation of a deity. I'm not aware of any data suggesting this is a phenomenon only seen with Mensa members.

It really shouldn't be about who believed what, it should be about the belief it'self and the reasoning behind it. If a person admits they have no good reason to believe in god, yet they believe anyway, then any conversation about why they believe becomes trivial. What becomes important to me, at that point, is the understanding that a personal belief held on faith, by definition, can only have value to that person. You cannot expect others to pay any attention to it unless they so choose. If that understanding is there, then I really don't have a problem with individuals believing whatever they please.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 8, 2018)

ANC said:


> God doesn't believe in you though.


"Personifiers unite, you have nothing to lose but Mr. Dignity"


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 8, 2018)

Heisenberg said:


> [...] If a person admits they have no good reason to believe in god, yet they believe anyway, then any conversation about why they believe becomes trivial. What becomes important to me, at that point, is the understanding that a personal belief held on faith, by definition, can only have value to that person. You cannot expect others to pay any attention to it unless they so choose. If that understanding is there, then I really don't have a problem with individuals believing whatever they please.


Here again is the personification of *god. If we can get out of that rut and get to the root of the issue (neither *side can objectively define the relationship between consciousness and matter) then maybe there's a chance at a *third thing (the whole point is to find it - and both *sides know that it shows itself in representations of nous (number)).

By your standard neither should talk to either, or do I have that mixed up? (Cheers, btw.)


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 8, 2018)

eye exaggerate said:


> How so?





eye exaggerate said:


> Here again is the personification of *god. If we can get out of that rut and get to the root of the issue (neither *side can objectively define the relationship between consciousness and matter) then maybe there's a chance at a *third thing (the whole point is to find it - and both *sides know that it shows itself in representations of nous (number)).
> 
> By your standard neither should talk to either, or do I have that mixed up? (Cheers, btw.)


Is your real name Deepak Chopra?


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 8, 2018)

jonsnow399 said:


> Is your real name Deepak Chopra?


Ha, that one's been asked already.

, still a no.


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## TheLadyPale (Feb 8, 2018)

I am religious but i do not follow Christianity so the question "do you believe in God?" Is a yes and a no. Yes I believe in a god but probably not the one your refering too.


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 8, 2018)

TheLadyPale said:


> I am religious but i do not follow Christianity so the question "do you believe in God?" Is a yes and a no. Yes I believe in a god but probably not the one your refering too.


I believe in Odin, when I die I get to join Thor and the other Gods in Valhalla to fight Ragnarok against the Frost Giants. Which god do you believe in?


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## TheLadyPale (Feb 8, 2018)

I'm a Theistic Satanist


jonsnow399 said:


> I believe in Odin, when I die I get to join Thor and the other Gods in Valhalla to fight Ragnarok against the Frost Giants. Which god do you believe in?


I'm a Theistic Satanist. I believe in the old gods from Sumer, Enki and Enlil.


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 8, 2018)

Great! as long as you don't believe in one of those crazy religions!


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## TheLadyPale (Feb 8, 2018)

Likewise. Your only crazy if you say there is no higher power.


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## Heisenberg (Feb 9, 2018)

eye exaggerate said:


> Here again is the personification of *god. If we can get out of that rut and get to the root of the issue (neither *side can objectively define the relationship between consciousness and matter) then maybe there's a chance at a *third thing (the whole point is to find it - and both *sides know that it shows itself in representations of nous (number)).
> 
> By your standard neither should talk to either, or do I have that mixed up? (Cheers, btw.)


I'm not sure what "side" any of us are supposed to be on. Some of us believe, some of us don't, and all for our own reasons. The topic of how matter gives rise to consciousness is worth pursuing, but the fact that we cannot currently explain it would seem to have no bearing on the existential state of God. Whether personified or not, it's strange how God always ends up hiding inside another mystery. While he used to lurk behind stars and planets, the rivers and mountains, he seemed to move on around the same time humans gained a reasonably thorough understanding stars, planets and mountains. God was once the explanation for drought and disease, until we stumbled upon meteorology and germ theory. I guess we know why god works in mysterious ways, because he apparently needs mystery to exist. Once the mystery is gone, God exits along with it fleeing into the unknown. As science provides us with an ever more accurate and comprehensive map of reality, the amount of mystery in the world shrinks, until we have apparently left God with no other choice than to shed his persona, shrink into the quantum, and hide in the space between thought and matter. Fortunately for God, that's probably going to be a safe space to hide for quite some time.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 9, 2018)

Heisenberg said:


> I'm not sure what "side" any of us are supposed to be on. Some of us believe, some of us don't, and all for our own reasons. The topic of how matter gives rise to consciousness is worth pursuing, but the fact that we cannot currently explain it would seem to have no bearing on the existential state of God. Whether personified or not, it's strange how God always ends up hiding inside another mystery. While he used to lurk behind stars and planets, the rivers and mountains, he seemed to move on around the same time humans gained a reasonably thorough understanding stars, planets and mountains. God was once the explanation for drought and disease, until we stumbled upon meteorology and germ theory. I guess we know why god works in mysterious ways, because he apparently needs mystery to exist. Once the mystery is gone, God exits along with it fleeing into the unknown. As science provides us with an ever more accurate and comprehensive map of reality, the amount of mystery in the world shrinks, until we have apparently left God with no other choice than to shed his persona, shrink into the quantum, and hide in the space between thought and matter. Fortunately for God, that's probably going to be a safe space to hide for quite some time.


You're correct about the changing god. In my own study I'd get a little caught up in some stuff and had to stop thinking about it. After enough study of related materials an answer would start to form in my mind. I think that's how most conceptual things are learned, not by looking directly at them.

This brings me to the God-Image. In the same way standard physics delves into matter, depth-psychology digs into matters of the mind. There's a thought in d-s that we're born with an imprint of a god in mind. It changes with our collective perceptions, and vice-versa. I'm not sure that this is just a way to visualize how every part informs the next one, but it makes a lot of sense to me.

It'll still take the rest of my life to figure out, though, god or no god lol


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## New Age United (Feb 9, 2018)

But is there actually a gap between thought and matter. I mean aren't our thoughts the product of brain activity and we are just made aware of them as they occur? Is there actually a part of consciousness that has volition over matter? Or is every action the effect of a previous cause?

@eye exaggerate @Heisenberg


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 9, 2018)

New Age United said:


> But is there actually a gap between thought and matter. I mean aren't our thoughts the product of brain activity and we are just made aware of them as they occur? Is there actually a part of consciousness that has volition over matter? Or is every action the effect of a previous cause?
> 
> @eye exaggerate @Heisenberg


What could be beyond thought and matter together? It's apparent that both rely on each other, but a really tough question as you look beyond that.


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## stawawager (Feb 10, 2018)

eye exaggerate said:


> Random question:
> 
> what is the point between thought and matter?


Spirit and flesh.


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## stawawager (Feb 10, 2018)

62 vs 113. I'm surprised. Doesn't the 113 know that Something can not come from nothing, that making anything requires divine design?

Where did Cannabis come from? Star dust. Where did star dust come from? I know. Do you?


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## Padawanbater2 (Feb 10, 2018)

stawawager said:


> 62 vs 113. I'm surprised. Doesn't the 113 know that Something can not come from nothing, that making anything requires divine design?
> 
> Where did Cannabis come from? Star dust. Where did star dust come from? I know. Do you?


Where did God come from if something can't come from nothing?

In both scenarios, _"something"_ comes from _"nothing"_. Theists claim to already have the answer which is justified by faith. Atheists claim that nobody can know the answer at the current time. Since faith isn't proof of anything, it's more logical to assume the answer for the creation of existence is still very much up in the air.


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## Beefbisquit (Feb 11, 2018)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Where did God come from if something can't come from nothing?
> 
> In both scenarios, _"something"_ comes from _"nothing"_. Theists claim to already have the answer which is justified by faith. Atheists claim that nobody can know the answer at the current time. Since faith isn't proof of anything, it's more logical to assume the answer for the creation of existence is still very much up in the air.


Although, I wouldn't say "atheists claim" anything... To fit into the category of atheist, you just needn't have a belief in god. No claim is required.




Heisenberg said:


> I'm not sure what "side" any of us are supposed to be on. Some of us believe, some of us don't, and all for our own reasons. The topic of how matter gives rise to consciousness is worth pursuing, but the fact that we cannot currently explain it would seem to have no bearing on the existential state of God. Whether personified or not, it's strange how God always ends up hiding inside another mystery. While he used to lurk behind stars and planets, the rivers and mountains, he seemed to move on around the same time humans gained a reasonably thorough understanding stars, planets and mountains. God was once the explanation for drought and disease, until we stumbled upon meteorology and germ theory. I guess we know why god works in mysterious ways, because he apparently needs mystery to exist. Once the mystery is gone, God exits along with it fleeing into the unknown. As science provides us with an ever more accurate and comprehensive map of reality, the amount of mystery in the world shrinks, until we have apparently left God with no other choice than to shed his persona, shrink into the quantum, and hide in the space between thought and matter. Fortunately for God, that's probably going to be a safe space to hide for quite some time.


The old "god of the gaps", argument.... If theists want to relegate god to an ever-shrinking mystery that is unexplained by science, let them. Soon enough, the only thing they'll have left to claim is that god *might have* played a hand in something before the big bang.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 11, 2018)

Beefbisquit said:


> Although, I wouldn't say "atheists claim" anything... To fit into the category of atheist, you just needn't have a belief in god. No claim is required.
> 
> 
> 
> The old "god of the gaps", argument.... If theists want to relegate god to an ever-shrinking mystery that is unexplained by science, let them. Soon enough, the only thing they'll have left to claim is that god *might have* played a hand in something before the big bang.


What's your take on the big bang? Is it something you support?


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## Beefbisquit (Feb 11, 2018)

eye exaggerate said:


> What's your take on the big bang? Is it something you support?


Of course. It's the scientifically accepted answer to the question, "how did the universe begin?"


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 12, 2018)

Beefbisquit said:


> Of course. It's the scientifically accepted answer to the question, "how did the universe begin?"


You know that it was theorized by a Jesuit, yes?

edit: "If the world has begun with a single quantum, the notions of space and time would altogether fail to have any meaning at the beginning; they would only begin to have a sensible meaning when the original quantum had been divided into a sufficient number of quanta. If this suggestion is correct, the beginning of the world happened a little before the beginning of space and time.[51]"


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## ClaytonBigsby (Feb 12, 2018)

New in town. Has anyone said aliens?


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 13, 2018)

ClaytonBigsby said:


> New in town. Has anyone said aliens?


"We're the aliens, maaaan."

How's it going? Long time no see.


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## ClaytonBigsby (Feb 13, 2018)

Hey Kemo,

Doing well for a bit again, thanks. Good to see you still here. I guess you got sick of the cacophony in tnt as well. Looks like there's a lot of target rich environments in this section. How are you?


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## HydoDan (Feb 13, 2018)

Believe in God? Fuck No!!!


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## somedude584 (Feb 13, 2018)

Yes. Not any religious interpretation, but I believe in a higher power, be it "God" or what have you.

Science and religion used to go hand in hand. I think that they are headed back towards that direction today.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 13, 2018)

ClaytonBigsby said:


> Hey Kemo,
> 
> Doing well for a bit again, thanks. Good to see you still here. I guess you got sick of the cacophony in tnt as well. Looks like there's a lot of target rich environments in this section. How are you?


Doing well, thanks! Nice to see another familiar face.

(*doing well - again... was there a lapse? Sorry, still a little out of the loop.)

I stayed away for a bit, partly for that reason, but also just because I was super-busy and focused on other stuff. I still like to come here and read up on good info.


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## ClaytonBigsby (Feb 13, 2018)

Been a very rough few years, but I am near the top of the mountain and expect to stay. This place is a break from reality for sure. Some funny folks that provide laughs I wouldn;t normally find irl. Who doesn;t like a train wreck, am I right?

I hope all is well in your super busy world. Don;t forget to stop and smell the roses along the way.

Much love


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## gwheels (Feb 15, 2018)

There is a God and he is the only god. we will all be fucked when we meet him. That is all.


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## Padawanbater2 (Feb 15, 2018)

gwheels said:


> There is a God and he is the only god. we will all be fucked when we meet him. That is all.


I doubt it


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## GreenLogician (Feb 15, 2018)

eye exaggerate said:


> 100% scientific notion. Early religious endeavours tended to all BUT theology.


Sorry but the point remains that early religious endeavors did not impregnate modern cosmology with a concept of a 'first cause', that's lacking from science. There's certainly no scientific support for one.


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## Padawanbater2 (Feb 15, 2018)

I wonder if the answer that the universe began _without a cause_ is sufficient for people who hold so much of their own meaning in having a cause, that the universe was created for them, to support human life.. I'm sure it couldn't be, so how could they ever accept it even if we proved it? It's not like people don't deny reality today if the alternative makes them more comfortable


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 15, 2018)

I have a standing offer to the Christian God, since he loves human sacrifice so much, My offer is this, I go to the Middle East and let myself be captured by Isis. They beat me half to death and then crucify me. Instead of coming back to life, I go straight to hell for eternity. It isn't publicized so I get no credit or glory for it. Now THAT'S a real sacrifice, unlike Jesus' fake one! In return all I ask for is to stop all suffering in the world for humans and animals alike. 
You listening God? How bout it?


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## Beefbisquit (Feb 18, 2018)

eye exaggerate said:


> You know that it was theorized by a Jesuit, yes?
> 
> edit: "If the world has begun with a single quantum, the notions of space and time would altogether fail to have any meaning at the beginning; they would only begin to have a sensible meaning when the original quantum had been divided into a sufficient number of quanta. If this suggestion is correct, the beginning of the world happened a little before the beginning of space and time.[51]"


I believe the big bang was the start of the universe because it was theorized, and then the evidence that supports the theory was found.

"Who" doesn't matter, "how" does. 

Anyone can theorize something, whether or not there's a good reason to believe it or not is a different matter.


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 18, 2018)

Beefbisquit said:


> Explain yourself. Who theorized it, and why? Was it evidence based reason or a guess?
> 
> I believe the big bang was the start of the universe because it was theorized, and then the evidence that supports the theory was found.
> 
> "Who" doesn't matter, "how" does.


The priest was a scientist. He explained it to the Pope and the Pope offered to make it part of the Catholic Dogma.


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 18, 2018)

Funny story. Two Mormon missionaries came to my door yesterday. Since they were hot chicks I let them in. 15 minutes later they were crying and walking out the door. lol. Was it something I said?


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## Beefbisquit (Feb 18, 2018)

Cool. That really doesn't make any difference whatsoever. If the priest had evidence to back up his claims it had nothing to do with his religion. lol


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## Beachwalker (Feb 23, 2018)

100%


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## RetiredGuerilla (Feb 23, 2018)

The Satanic freemasons at NASA want you to believe earth is one of trillions of planets in billions of galaxies so the idea of God's existence and creation become implausible. You have been force fed images of a globe since you were a toddler. A lie told enough becomes the truth. If the earth is 73% water and water always finds it level then it can't be a globe/sphere. In reality the earth is a bio-dome. Freedom is no longer feeling the need to be free.


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## Padawanbater2 (Feb 24, 2018)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> The Satanic freemasons at NASA want you to believe earth is one of trillions of planets in billions of galaxies so the idea of God's existence and creation become implausible. You have been force fed images of a globe since you were a toddler. A lie told enough becomes the truth. If the earth is 73% water and water always finds it level then it can't be a globe/sphere. In reality the earth is a bio-dome. Freedom is no longer feeling the need to be free.


_K, Deepak _


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## Heisenberg (Feb 24, 2018)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> The Satanic freemasons at NASA want you to believe earth is one of trillions of planets in billions of galaxies so the idea of God's existence and creation become implausible. You have been force fed images of a globe since you were a toddler. A lie told enough becomes the truth. If the earth is 73% water and water always finds it level then it can't be a globe/sphere. In reality the earth is a bio-dome. Freedom is no longer feeling the need to be free.


"The *Chewbacca Defense* is any legal or propaganda strategy that seeks to overwhelm its audience with nonsensical arguments, as a way of confusing the audience and drowning out legitimate opposing arguments. It also has, intentionally or unintentionally, the effect of confusing the opponent so that they will stop arguing with you. If they are too chicken to continue the argument, the point they are trying to argue must be equally flimsy, right? Right?"

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Chewbacca_Defense


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 24, 2018)

Heisenberg said:


> "The *Chewbacca Defense* is any legal or propaganda strategy that seeks to overwhelm its audience with nonsensical arguments, as a way of confusing the audience and drowning out legitimate opposing arguments. It also has, intentionally or unintentionally, the effect of confusing the opponent so that they will stop arguing with you. If they are too chicken to continue the argument, the point they are trying to argue must be equally flimsy, right? Right?"
> 
> https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Chewbacca_Defense


To summarize "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit."


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 24, 2018)

Beefbisquit said:


> I believe the big bang was the start of the universe because it was theorized, and then the evidence that supports the theory was found.
> 
> "Who" doesn't matter, "how" does.
> 
> Anyone can theorize something, whether or not there's a good reason to believe it or not is a different matter.


I like that approach.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 24, 2018)

GreenLogician said:


> Sorry but the point remains that early religious endeavors did not impregnate modern cosmology with a concept of a 'first cause', that's lacking from science. There's certainly no scientific support for one.


I think we misheard each other. I was referencing the big bang as scientific.


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## GreenLogician (Feb 24, 2018)

eye exaggerate said:


> I was referencing the big bang as scientific.


Alright, you'll need to be much more careful in the future to distinguish real science from religious apologetics. 
The term 'first cause' is from religious apologetics, not big bang science.
Aquinas claimed without reasoning and evidence that an infinite past is logically absurd, so insisted a first cause must be posited. This has never been scientifically supported. Big bang science does not include a first cause, as far as we know things keep going back beyond the big bang.


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 24, 2018)

You cannot determine the origins of the universe thru philosophy and/or logic.


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## Padawanbater2 (Feb 25, 2018)

jonsnow399 said:


> You cannot determine the origins of the universe thru philosophy and/or logic.


Of course you can. How else would you?


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 25, 2018)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Of course you can. How else would you?


uhh, maybe science? or examining the entrails of sacrificial goats?


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## Padawanbater2 (Feb 25, 2018)

jonsnow399 said:


> uhh, maybe science? or examining the entrails of sacrificial goats?


Logic and philosophy are disciplines of science


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## GreenLogician (Feb 25, 2018)

Or it could be said science is a range of disciplines born of philosophy, historically. Specializers applying and refining carefully structured thinking (philosophy) to specific fields.
But I know what Jonsnow means, in modern times 'philosophy' tends to refer to the leftover (and new) structured thinking practices that didn't evolve into an empirical science. It's only in the history of philosophy that we consider fields of science as emergent fields of philosophy, basically.
Just to avoid all that ambiguity, instead of science I might have said empirical investigation.


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 25, 2018)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Logic and philosophy are disciplines of science


Philosophy is not a science, logic is but cannot be used to determine the origin or the universe. Unless you're William Lane Craig. lol


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## Padawanbater2 (Feb 25, 2018)

jonsnow399 said:


> Philosophy is not a science


Philosophy translates to _the love of wisdom_

It would be tough to argue that philosophy is not a part of science


jonsnow399 said:


> logic is but cannot be used to determine the origin or the universe.


Logic and reason, _the disciples of science,_ are probably _the only things that can determine the origin of the universe_


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 25, 2018)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Philosophy translates to _the love of wisdom_
> 
> It would be tough to argue that philosophy is not a part of science
> 
> Logic and reason, _the disciples of science,_ are probably _the only things that can determine the origin of the universe_


Ok, tell us the origin of the universe using strictly logic. or with philosophy.


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## New Age United (Feb 26, 2018)

jonsnow399 said:


> Ok, tell us the origin of the universe using strictly logic. or with philosophy.


The universe just is, it exists that we know for sure, it always has and always Will, never created or destroyed. Black holes are like seeds collecting matter and creating singularities for their own big bang, it is all a very natural process there is no need of a creator.


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## Padawanbater2 (Feb 26, 2018)

jonsnow399 said:


> Ok, tell us the origin of the universe using strictly logic. or with philosophy.


I don't know the origin of the universe _because_ I used logic. To humans, today, using logic is not enough to solve the question of the origin of the universe. That doesn't mean in the future it won't be.


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 26, 2018)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I don't know the origin of the universe _because_ I used logic. To humans, today, using logic is not enough to solve the question of the origin of the universe. That doesn't mean in the future it won't be.[/QUOTE
> William Lane Craig has already solved it using logic and philosophy.
> 
> Whatever begins to exist has a cause;
> ...


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## Padawanbater2 (Feb 26, 2018)

William Lane Craig is a retard


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 26, 2018)

Padawanbater2 said:


> William Lane Craig is a retard


On this we can agree.


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## Heisenberg (Feb 26, 2018)

Science is a process. Logic is part of the structure of that process, but I would say logic falls in the necessary but not sufficient category. The problem with logic is that it works on a garbage-in garbage-out rule. Part of science is making sure what you put in isn't garbage. One can be perfectly logical while still falling for confirmation bias, frequency illusion, cherry picking, ect. Science also needs critical thinking, experimental controls, quantification of unknowns, transparency, and other various quality controls that make up the philosophy of science. But logic and philosophy, on their own, are not science. Science involves posing questions to nature and generating data to work with. Science is a thing you do, it requires action.


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 26, 2018)

Heisenberg said:


> Science is a process. Logic is part of the structure of that process, but I would say logic falls in the necessary but not sufficient category. The problem with logic is that it works on a garbage-in garbage-out rule. Part of science is making sure what you put in isn't garbage. One can be perfectly logical while still falling for confirmation bias, frequency illusion, cherry picking, ect. Science also needs critical thinking, experimental controls, quantification of unknowns, transparency, and other various quality controls that make up the philosophy of science. But logic and philosophy, on their own, are not science. Science involves posing questions to nature and generating data to work with. Science is a thing you do, it requires action.


Yeh, the main problem with Craig's argument is that we don't know for sure if the universe had a beginning.


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## Heisenberg (Feb 26, 2018)

jonsnow399 said:


> Yeh, the main problem with Craig's argument is that we don't know for sure if the universe had a beginning.


Right, hes taking a rule imposed onto reality by the universe and applying it to the universe itself without justification. But even if the universe did have a beginning, or, as they say, something came from nothing, that still doesn't explain why his logic wouldn't apply to the proposed creator. If something can't come from nothing, where did the creator come from? Even if we give him the benefit of credulity, his logic still defeats itself.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 27, 2018)

GreenLogician said:


> Alright, you'll need to be much more careful in the future to distinguish real science from religious apologetics.
> The term 'first cause' is from religious apologetics, not big bang science.
> Aquinas claimed without reasoning and evidence that an infinite past is logically absurd, so insisted a first cause must be posited. This has never been scientifically supported. Big bang science does not include a first cause, as far as we know things keep going back beyond the big bang.


The first cause - prime mover - unmoved mover reference was in regard to proper scientists who cared to pursue it. It's back there in the 130 iq / No God convo.

I'm not an apologist, sorry.


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## GreenLogician (Feb 27, 2018)

eye exaggerate said:


> The first cause - prime mover - unmoved mover reference was in regard to proper scientists who cared to pursue it.


That hasn't progressed beyond speculation, I can recommend some physics lecturers if you want?
A quickie to start with Sean Carroll - Do Cause and Effect Really Exist? (Big Picture Ep. 2/5)

"I'm not an apologist, sorry."
-- That's fine, you've just mistaken apologist's arguments for science.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 28, 2018)

GreenLogician said:


> "I'm not an apologist, sorry."
> -- That's fine, you've just mistaken apologist's arguments for science.


Eh?


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 28, 2018)

GreenLogician said:


> That hasn't progressed beyond speculation, I can recommend some physics lecturers if you want?
> A quickie to start with Sean Carroll - Do Cause and Effect Really Exist? (Big Picture Ep. 2/5)


Does 1,2,3,4,5 equal 1,2,3,5?


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## mahiluana (Feb 28, 2018)

Heisenberg said:


> where did the creator come from?


GOD = EVOLUTION (and everthing and everybody is a part of it)

if there is no evolution @ all ---> there is NO CREATOR @ all

evolution = ability to reproduce + variation + selection

Charles Darwin spelled this formula 300 years ago, and told us, that life and creation
is a long, wet and never ending chain.

Nobody and nothing can escape from this "game" called evolution - we are all inside - if we want or not.
It seems to be a universal rule, that even a stone or any other material can`t hide away -
not our spirit - nor the beauty and the uggly, that we create with this spirit.

Aristoteles said it much earlier, when he tried to give another brilliant definition of "GOD"

"THE UNMOVED MOVER" - was even a shorter concept of the same universal rule.

if @ any time we need a new religion!

*** I recommend "ART" as the new religion ***

so please be creator !!! "everybody is an artist" 

As an artist you can learn to celebrate :

- your abilities to reproduce your soul or any other concept of any other artist 
- your virtuosity
- trying to select by your own choise

this can put you in a real position of a god or a king ---> 

*What if you find out your purpose in life is - to be part of "GOD" and his creation with your own little kingdom ?

- meaningless only the size of your castle
- because you are able to travel through time and space
- ! and state of mind ! 

I found it`s a relativ exciting journey to ride on a comet through the univers...
... and find my way as a "legal son of GOD " ... trying to maintain this wet chain and protect it against any "mother-earth-fuckers" crossing my trajectory.*


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## Drowning-Man (Jun 27, 2018)

I believe in the devil.


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## neosapien (Jun 27, 2018)

When you were hanging with priests and stroking that penis did you feel any closer to Jesus?


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## neosapien (Jun 27, 2018)

You are off your fucking rocker.


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## somedude584 (Jun 28, 2018)

Some serious crazy in here


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## abalonehx (Jul 3, 2018)




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## abalonehx (Jul 6, 2018)

I started attending the Church of Joey Diaz and now, have very few regrets.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 6, 2018)

abalonehx said:


> I started attending the Church of Joey Diaz and now, have very few regrets.


Great choice, cocksucka!


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## Overgrowthegov (Jul 10, 2018)

Nothing says I want to poke you like a Cactus.


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## Buddha2525 (Jul 12, 2018)

abalonehx said:


>


I think you're patting yourself on the back too quickly. HPB is a nut job wacko who mixed the Greek Hermes, Egyptian Thoth, and Buddha, to redefine the English word "truth."

"“ ‘Truth alone’, says Pimander, ‘is eternal and immutable; _truth_ is the first of blessings; but truth is not and cannot be on earth; it is possible that God gifts a few men together with the faculty of comprehending divine things [_and_] with that of rightly understanding truth; but nothing is true on earth, for everything has matter on it, clothed with a corporeal form subject to change, to alteration, to corruption, and to new combinations. (…) Truth, then, is that only which is immaterial and not enclosed within a corporeal envelope, that which is colorless and formless, exempt from change and alteration; that which is ETERNAL’.”

As you can see, for her "truth" is the transcendent human that only finds "truth" when bound with "God" or "Brahma" or whatever religious figure you relate. She thought of what eventually happens is you realize you're already part of "God" and through Maya (Illusion) think of yourself as separate from God (dualistic) when in fact reality is you're not separate (non-dualistic).

So by quoting her, you're agreeing with those you argue against. It should actually read, "There is no religion higher than the realization you yourself are God."

Take care,

Namo Amituofo!


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