# Low Pressure Aero build...it has begun!



## diggs99 (Nov 21, 2019)

Sup everyone, welcome to thread that will contain the journey of this LPA build and setup and prob its inaugural run. Ive been wanting to try aero or rdwc for a bit, i figure a nice winter project isnt such a bad idea.


The plan:

i will run 4 totes(1 plant per) off a 40g res, feeding a manifold thats connected to all tote sprayers. Runoff will be drained out the bottom and back into the res.

Materials :

4 x 27gallon Rectangular totes, 29"x20"x15"
1 x 40 gallon low rise reservoir
1 x 800 gph pump
2 x 20` 3/4" pvc( 90s,ts and shutoffs for fittings)
ez cloner spray heads
3" net cups filled with hydroton
40` of 1/2" soft viny tubing for drain hose
Aquarium sealant 


The idea : First off, huge thanks to anyone who offered advice or help , especially @thenasty1 , he was a real bro during my decision and planning process.

The idea is to build a table/platform roughly 18" from the floor for the totes(plants) to sit on. Beneath it will be the lowrise res(12" in height) The Pump will fill the manifold which feeds all 4 tote sprayers, after spraying, runoff will trickle back down the vinyl tubing and back into res.





Feel free to offer up any advice or tweaks you would make. Im always open to doing things a better way.


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## Axion42 (Nov 21, 2019)

Subbed up! With LPA do you run the pump 24/7?


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## diggs99 (Nov 22, 2019)

Axion42 said:


> Subbed up! With LPA do you run the pump 24/7?


Yes, you can run the pump 24/7 if you want with LPA, i still havent decided my pump schedule. 
1/5
1/10
24/7
seem to be what ive seen most use. Not a ton of info out there on LPA tho, compared to DWC or RDWC or ebb and flo ect..


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## thenasty1 (Nov 22, 2019)

i wouldnt run your pump 24/7. unnecessary use of resources, unnecessary heating of the res. 1-1.5 on, 5-10 off is plenty


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## diggs99 (Nov 22, 2019)

thenasty1 said:


> i wouldnt run your pump 24/7. unnecessary use of resources, unnecessary heating of the res. 1-1.5 on, 5-10 off is plenty


Yes it wouldnt be my first choice for scheduling. Keeping res cool would be a nightmare, alright for those running chillers maybe.

Ill probably go with 1/10 to start and let the plants and reservoir numbers help me dial it in. I assume it will need adjusting as root balls get bigger and require more water?


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## Airwalker16 (Nov 22, 2019)

Build RDwC man, I'm tellin ya...


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## Airwalker16 (Nov 22, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Yes it wouldnt be my first choice for scheduling. Keeping res cool would be a nightmare, alright for those running chillers maybe.
> 
> Ill probably go with 1/10 to start and let the plants and reservoir numbers help me dial it in. I assume it will need adjusting as root balls get bigger and require more water?


If you do end up going this route though, I only do 1 min on every 29 mins.
You better get yourself a beastly lil pump to overcome the head pressure, too. A little giant or a 1600 gph.


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## diggs99 (Nov 22, 2019)

Airwalker16 said:


> Build RDwC man, I'm tellin ya...


Lol it wasn't easy deciding, don't sway me back bro lol


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## myke (Nov 22, 2019)

So theres no watter in the totes?Just sprayers.Kinda like NFT?


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## diggs99 (Nov 22, 2019)

myke said:


> So theres no watter in the totes?Just sprayers.Kinda like NFT?


Yes that's right. Water will all run back to reservoir below the table after each spraying, leaving none in the totes at all.


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## myke (Nov 22, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Yes that's right. Water will all run back to reservoir below the table after each spraying, leaving none in the totes at all.


So why such big totes then?


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## diggs99 (Nov 22, 2019)

myke said:


> So why such big totes then?


Hobestly it's mainly because I had spoken to a few growers who had done similar systems and each of them said to use as big of totes as i can fit in the space.

Secondary reason was in case I wanted to convert for bigger counts/sog I can easily do it with the bigger container.


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## myke (Nov 22, 2019)

So pending on how many plants in ea tote would determine how long the spraying is ? Height is what you after,roots hanging rather then piling up on the bottom?


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## diggs99 (Nov 22, 2019)

myke said:


> So pending on how many plants in ea tote would determine how long the spraying is ? Height is what you after,roots hanging rather then piling up on the bottom?


Ya from what i have gathered in the researching ive done, spraying will be determined by root mass, so as they get bigger the times may have to be adjusted accordingly, Yes i wanted the totes to be as tall as possible, try to keep the roots hanging in air as long as i can. Its inevitable that they will reach the bottom and begin piling up at some point tho, i would assume.

This is all still extremely new to me, im learning as i go and i expect this first run to be somewhat of a gong show, but i can guarantee you this, ill make it entertaining lol


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## myke (Nov 22, 2019)

So only thing I recommend is bigger drain bulheads,so in the future you can go rdwc if ya wanted.


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## diggs99 (Nov 22, 2019)

myke said:


> So only thing I recommend is bigger drain bulheads,so in the future you can go rdwc if ya wanted.


Ya I actually bought some 2" bulkheads in preparation of doing rdwc, decide to go aero but still got the stuff to go rdwc if aero isn't for me.


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## PhatNuggz (Nov 22, 2019)

I've tried most hydro, but not RDWC. Just don't see the reason . It's seems very inefficient. Also, instead of DWC, I use SWC (s=shallow). 

This grow (last 3 pics) to provide the ~ 2 gallons of nutes with plenty of DO, I am experimenting with a plastic bottle _drilled with lots of holes_: the bottle mouth/opening is connected directly to a 80 gph pump. Inside the bottle are platonic solids, which not only provides DO, but as the solution is forced over and around them, the nutrient solution is energized, similar to a waterfall over rocks. Still dialing it in, but currently pump runs 30 seconds on/60 minutes off.. To be safe I am supplementing with a 4 head bubbler but on low

A couple grows back I experimented combining LPA with High Pressure Mist heads (see pics). It has great promise on many levels. Alas, those awesome roots got rot because I sprayed too frequently and the spray was soaking the starter cubes. This method can be done with a shallow internal rez using bottom draw pump (which I used in the pictures), or external rez, which is ideal for dumping/changing nutes

hth


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## diggs99 (Nov 22, 2019)

PhatNuggz said:


> I've tried most hydro, but not RDWC. Just don't see the reason . It's seems very inefficient. Also, instead of DWC, I use SWC (s=shallow).
> 
> This grow (last 3 pics) to provide the ~ 2 gallons of nutes with plenty of DO, I am experimenting with a plastic bottle _drilled with lots of holes_: the bottle mouth/opening is connected directly to a 80 gph pump. Inside the bottle are platonic solids, which not only provides DO, but as the solution is forced over and around them, the nutrient solution is energized, similar to a waterfall over rocks. Still dialing it in, but currently pump runs 30 seconds on/60 minutes off.. To be safe I am supplementing with a 4 head bubbler but on low
> 
> ...


Hey Phat, thanks for the info...got a few questions about your LPA/HPA setup if you dont mind.

What was your spraying intervals when you got the rot? 
What size of system were you running and how big was your pump?
Did you use anything in your res? Southern Ag or h2o2 or poolshock

Thanks man


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## Airwalker16 (Nov 22, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Hobestly it's mainly because I had spoken to a few growers who had done similar systems and each of them said to use as big of totes as i can fit in the space.
> 
> Secondary reason was in case I wanted to convert for bigger counts/sog I can easily do it with the bigger container.


Big totes are for a large volume of water in a recirculating system. Keeps oh swings down and things stable. My aero totes are low profile and you can see how it works fine.


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## thenasty1 (Nov 22, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ill probably go with 1/10 to start and let the plants and reservoir numbers help me dial it in. I assume it will need adjusting as root balls get bigger and require more water?


i would think 1/10 is fine full cycle. i run 1/5 to root cuttings, and 1.5/8 for my small vegging. do play around with it though, adjust as necessary and figure out what works in your setup. the 1/29 that @Airwalker16 is talking about interests me, i might try that out when i have some bigger specimens in my totes



PhatNuggz said:


> I've tried most hydro, but not RDWC. Just don't see the reason . It's seems very inefficient.


when you dial it in its pretty efficient. aside from training and pruning mine need very little work, and ive ironed out the nute regimen to the point that i rarely need to fully dump a res
also i dig that bottle setup. excellent use of spare gaming dice


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## diggs99 (Nov 22, 2019)

thenasty1 said:


> i would think 1/10 is fine full cycle. i run 1/5 to root cuttings, and 1.5/8 for my small vegging. do play around with it though, adjust as necessary and figure out what works in your setup. the 1/29 that @Airwalker16 is talking about interests me, i might try that out when i have some bigger specimens in my totes
> 
> 
> when you dial it in its pretty efficient. aside from training and pruning mine need very little work, and ive ironed out the nute regimen to the point that i rarely need to fully dump a res
> also i dig that bottle setup. excellent use of spare gaming dice



Ill prob start out at 1/10 and keep a close eye on things. Make adjustments and tweak things as im going lol

Ill be back with pics tomorrow, i got the main manifold done and all holes drilled in totes, will start making the sprayer manifolds tomorrow and begin dry fitting


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## Airwalker16 (Nov 22, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ill prob start out at 1/10 and keep a close eye on things. Make adjustments and tweak things as im going lol
> 
> Ill be back with pics tomorrow, i got the main manifold done and all holes drilled in totes, will start making the sprayer manifolds tomorrow and begin dry fitting


Guess there's no turning back for you now.
Best of luck to you.


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## diggs99 (Nov 23, 2019)

Airwalker16 said:


> Guess there's no turning back for you now.
> Best of luck to you.


Well ya lol.....Altho i could still change to RDWC and the totes would still be fine. 

But yes, were on our way lol


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## Airwalker16 (Nov 23, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Well ya lol.....Altho i could still change to RDWC and the totes would still be fine.
> 
> But yes, were on our way lol


How's that?
Rdwc requires 2"-3" holes in the sides for bulkheads while Aero requires 1/2"-1" holes in the bottoms for drain fittings.


Maybe you haven't drilled those yet, but in the end, it's one or the other, bruv.


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## Airwalker16 (Nov 23, 2019)

Airwalker16 said:


> How's that?
> Rdwc requires 2"-3" holes in the sides for bulkheads while Aero requires 1/2"-1" holes in the bottoms for drain fittings.
> 
> 
> Maybe you haven't drilled those yet, but in the end, it's one or the other, bruv.


You liked this comment LITERALLY the second I posted it it feels like... Whoa..


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## diggs99 (Nov 23, 2019)

Airwalker16 said:


> How's that?
> Rdwc requires 2"-3" holes in the sides for bulkheads while Aero requires 1/2"-1" holes in the bottoms for drain fittings.





i only have holes drilled at the top of my totes right now for 3/4 pvc manifold to fit through....If i want to switch to RDWC, i just need to drill the 2-3" holes in the bottom/sides, right? or am i missing something? lol its early and i wake n baked

I dont have the drains drilled yet, but even so, i should be able to cap/plug said drains if i wanted to right?




Airwalker16 said:


> You liked this comment LITERALLY the second I posted it it feels like... Whoa..


haha i was reading the thread when you posted


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## ToFarGone (Nov 23, 2019)

Well I’m watching this now. 
I will give you some advice / warnings. I did an almost identical setup with my peppers and here’s what I found

Use some foam gasket like what they use in exterior doors to seal the tote lid. Otherwise she’s gonna leak like a bitch

you will find 3” netpot with hydroton the water from the spray will come right out the top of the netpot

Don’t use a rockwool cube to root clones and put it in the hydroton it will get soaked and rot the stem just from the spray wicking up the hydroton or getting “misted” through the tiny gaps in hydroton 

Add to all this the pump timing as 24/7 the roots will get lazy and not really reach and grow roots. 


Put it this way it was an experiment I would not do again. Did not like the system at all. 

Rdwc for the win 

But hey if you have the spare space, time and money go for it you may be more successful then me so I’ll keep watching


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## f series (Nov 23, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> View attachment 4424829


So why are you growing cacti in hydro?


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## Airwalker16 (Nov 23, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> i only have holes drilled at the top of my totes right now for 3/4 pvc manifold to fit through....If i want to switch to RDWC, i just need to drill the 2-3" holes in the bottom/sides, right? or am i missing something? lol its early and i wake n baked
> 
> I dont have the drains drilled yet, but even so, i should be able to cap/plug said drains if i wanted to right?
> 
> ...


Hope your reducing to 3/4 from 1". Manifolds are the main part, that you then reduce from going to each site, to keep pressure even.


diggs99 said:


> i only have holes drilled at the top of my totes right now for 3/4 pvc manifold to fit through....If i want to switch to RDWC, i just need to drill the 2-3" holes in the bottom/sides, right? or am i missing something? lol its early and i wake n baked
> 
> I dont have the drains drilled yet, but even so, i should be able to cap/plug said drains if i wanted to right?
> 
> ...


With the totes being full of water 24/7 with rdwc I would highly Advise NOT capping or sealing any holes in the bottom where drains were. I'd use a brand new tote.


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## Airwalker16 (Nov 23, 2019)

ToFarGone said:


> Well I’m watching this now.
> I will give you some advice / warnings. I did an almost identical setup with my peppers and here’s what I found
> 
> Use some foam gasket like what they use in exterior doors to seal the tote lid. Otherwise she’s gonna leak like a bitch
> ...


Ya i put brand new seedlings like literally just from the hull, into my Aero and I think they got drowned. That or the spray was too strong and just stopped growth. I guess I'll have to use rapid rioters wrapped up in llastic to stop outward root growth for the first 2 weeks, THEN put them into the 3" net pots with hydroton once the rooter is full of roots. That way they'll explode out.

Or.. 
I also had my timer on 1min on every 14mins. I have recently gone down to 1min every 29mins.

Do you in your experience think they really only need 1min every hour or even 2 hours?
1min is plenty to soak the Whooole root system.


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## myke (Nov 23, 2019)

ToFarGone said:


> Well I’m watching this now.
> I will give you some advice / warnings. I did an almost identical setup with my peppers and here’s what I found
> 
> Use some foam gasket like what they use in exterior doors to seal the tote lid. Otherwise she’s gonna leak like a bitch
> ...


so how r your peppers doing in rdwc?was going to try next spring.thxthx


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## ToFarGone (Nov 23, 2019)

myke said:


> so how r your peppers doing in rdwc?was going to try next spring.thxthx


My peppers did grow in the exact same LPA system the OP is building don’t get me wrong. Just not near the harvest I was hoping for at all. Actually got better in promix with less plants.

I just lost about 1/3rd to stem rot as the water shot up through the net cup and hydroton and the rockwool cube they were originally rooted it got way to wet. And there was no way to stop the water getting up to the cube

You and me both will be rdwc next year. Haven’t personally done peppers in rdwc yet wanted to give lpa a try


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## ToFarGone (Nov 23, 2019)

Airwalker16 said:


> Ya i put brand new seedlings like literally just from the hull, into my Aero and I think they got drowned. That or the spray was too strong and just stopped growth. I guess I'll have to use rapid rioters wrapped up in llastic to stop outward root growth for the first 2 weeks, THEN put them into the 3" net pots with hydroton once the rooter is full of roots. That way they'll explode out.
> 
> Or..
> I also had my timer on 1min on every 14mins. I have recently gone down to 1min every 29mins.
> ...


Honestly I ended at 1mim on 7min off. I have a few Arduino’s kicking around so it was easy to adjust timing. However I never could get secondary roots to “reach” they always just seemed lazy 

Wish I had pics of the roots but it was nothing compared to any HPA system roots I’ve seen. 

And I think between shitty roots and loosing plants to stem rot really affected my overall yield. Got more from my promix plants from the same number


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## ToFarGone (Nov 23, 2019)

Airwalker16 said:


> Ya i put brand new seedlings like literally just from the hull, into my Aero and I think they got drowned. That or the spray was too strong and just stopped growth. I guess I'll have to use rapid rioters wrapped up in llastic to stop outward root growth for the first 2 weeks, THEN put them into the 3" net pots with hydroton once the rooter is full of roots. That way they'll explode out.
> 
> Or..
> I also had my timer on 1min on every 14mins. I have recently gone down to 1min every 29mins.
> ...


I think timing is one of those things that’s so system specific. Personally I think the level of humidity in the root zone plays a lot into it as well as the root zone temp as the roots aren’t hanging in water (Dwc or rdwc) to hell moderate their temp. 

Could also be my inexperience as well to be honest. That’s why I’m interested to see if anyone else comes up with something I didn’t think of or can really dial it in. 

I just couldn’t justify the system maintenance, space and time to keep messing around with less then satisfactory results

Totally willing to admit I couldn’t get it to work the way I expected. Hope the OP can dial it in better then me as you don’t see much of any LPA systems running other then aero cloner


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## Airwalker16 (Nov 23, 2019)

ToFarGone said:


> I think timing is one of those things that’s so system specific. Personally I think the level of humidity in the root zone plays a lot into it as well as the root zone temp as the roots aren’t hanging in water (Dwc or rdwc) to hell moderate their temp.
> 
> Could also be my inexperience as well to be honest. That’s why I’m interested to see if anyone else comes up with something I didn’t think of or can really dial it in.
> 
> ...


Yeah, we're all pushing for Rdwc but he seems set-in his decision. more power to him if he can get it to work.


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## diggs99 (Nov 23, 2019)

f series said:


> So why are you growing cacti in hydro?


LOL 



Airwalker16 said:


> Hope your reducing to 3/4 from 1". Manifolds are the main part, that you then reduce from going to each site, to keep pressure even.
> With the totes being full of water 24/7 with rdwc I would highly Advise NOT capping or sealing any holes in the bottom where drains were. I'd use a brand new tote.


Hey, im Not sure im following you bud, what do you mean reducing from 1" to 3/4"? I plan to run a 3/4" pvc manifold off the pump and to each tote, are you saying the main pvc line from pump should be 1"? then reduce it down in each tote to 3/4?

Thanks for heads up on no capping and just using another tote, ill def keep that in mind.




ToFarGone said:


> Well I’m watching this now.
> I will give you some advice / warnings. I did an almost identical setup with my peppers and here’s what I found
> 
> Use some foam gasket like what they use in exterior doors to seal the tote lid. Otherwise she’s gonna leak like a bitch
> ...


Hey thanks for taking the time to share your experiences with LPA, ill take any and all the help i can get lol. Im setting my sprayers up at the top of the tote, the couple other systems im going off have done similar without issues. Hopefully we dont get much water out the net cup with this method.

I def plan to seal the totes up real good with some gasket of some sort along with aquariam silicone wherever needed.
I wont be running pump 24/7, heat along in res would be problematic i think...Ill prob stick with others on the 1/10...and adjust accordingly.

It was a very close toss up between RDWC or Aero
No guarantees on success, but im going to give it a shot. 




Airwalker16 said:


> Yeah, we're all pushing for Rdwc but he seems set-in his decision. more power to him if he can get it to work.


I was a bit trying to decide what i wanted to go with. I made the decision to go Aero, ive already had a few moments where i was like " fuck this, ima go rdwc" lol but im gonna stay true to my word and give this aero a shot. If it works cool, ill be happy, if it dont, whatever, ill be sad but ill just scrap it and build a RDWC or go back to DTW and call it a day.


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## Airwalker16 (Nov 23, 2019)

Like as in this...






I GOTTA LOSE THE AIR PUMPS! HOW?! Plus my awesome mini DWC :)


That's cool man. Pretty low-key. I think you'll be surprised at the pressure of mine. i can't remember now, but its some where around 5-600 gph



www.rollitup.org





Also, if I were you, if you're doing 2 plants per site, why not run the piping right across the lid of the tote to the center, right angle thread to screw in the sprayer head build right from the inside?
Then(if these totes are similar to the HDX totes you've surely seen on here that many people use with the yellow, criss cross molded lids)
you could literally cut the lid into 2 places creating 3 pieces. Just maybe a 3-5" wide piece you'd cut right out of the center. Widthwise of course, not lengthwise.

That piece would be where the piping runs along and screws into it.

And I guess of course you could do the same thing with 1" grommets, and go in through the aide wall just RIGHT BELOW the lid keeping it as high as possible and wrap below it around the perimeter, sorta like the Aero I showed you is set up.
3/4" PVCs outer diameter just happens to fit nice and smug with the hydro flow 1" barbed fitting grommets. Not a permanent attachment to the actual tote, but is a really nice transition in to the tote than just a hole. Luckily. You need a bit bigger than 1" holes to fit them, so you could still make it happen. Just use a hole saw and drill the new hole in the tote so it's flat on a piece of wood. Get a pilot hole started by using the 1" Hole saw so you can get centered, then switch and drill that plastic off.
Because now that there's nothing in the center for the drill to stay on, you gotta sorta "bore it out" more so than drilling it out. Kinda just cutting a bigger hole on top of that hole.


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## diggs99 (Nov 23, 2019)

The plan is to go in through just under the handles and then loop the manifold around the perimeter of the tote.

i would have considered running it across top if i never had holes already drilled.

Im Not sure im following you on the 1" grommets and the reducing to 3/4....why cant i just run 3/4 off the pump and then carry on with 3/4 for my tote manifolds? Ill have valves on each riser to control pressure


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## rkymtnman (Nov 23, 2019)

gonna check this out diggs! let's see what LPA can do.


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## Axion42 (Nov 23, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> The plan is to go in through just under the handles and then loop the manifold around the perimeter of the tote.
> 
> i would have considered running it across top if i never had holes already drilled.
> 
> Im Not sure im following you on the 1" grommets and the reducing to 3/4....why cant i just run 3/4 off the pump and then carry on with 3/4 for my tote manifolds? Ill have valves on each riser to control pressure


You can use 3/4 but hes saying you should reduce to 1/2 just before you enter the totes so pressure can equalize throughout every tote.


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## diggs99 (Nov 23, 2019)

Axion42 said:


> You can use 3/4 but hes saying you should reduce to 1/2 just before you enter the totes so pressure can equalize throughout every tote.


Ok i wasnt quite understanding what he meant,

Ya thats one way to do it, creating a loop in the manifold before the risers will also equalize pressure if im not mistaken, so all totes will be recieiving the same pressure no matter how far from the res.

Or do you guys think i need to go smaller to create more pressure? from 3/4 to 1/2 would def do just that.


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## Axion42 (Nov 23, 2019)

That's how I did my rdwc, 3/4 from pump and 1/2 to each bucket waterfall. Another way you could do it is to put a shutoff valve before each tote so you can have more control over the spray volume.


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## diggs99 (Nov 23, 2019)

Axion42 said:


> That's how I did my rdwc, 3/4 from pump and 1/2 to each bucket waterfall. Another way you could do it is to put a shutoff valve before each tote so you can have more control over the spray volume.


Ya i plan to put a valve / shutoff on each riser to help control pressure and so i can shut down each tote as they are finishing up.


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## rkymtnman (Nov 23, 2019)

what are we doing as far as plants go?

strain?

clones/seeds?

when are you projecting for a start date?


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## Mak'er Grow (Nov 23, 2019)

Well I have no idea what classification my creation is or would be, but I know the few short tests I've done shows it works...made a few adjustments to things slightly since I took these pics...and probably more to come...lol
Anyways I do 2 plants in a 2 x 4 foot area...tote is 44" x 20" (I think).
I use 1 pump (120 VAC @ 600 L/H) for sprayers and a small one to circulate the water (12 VDC @ 240 L/H)
I change the water every 1-2 weeks and I add about 4 L/day or 2 tops....I try to keep it between 12-16 liters,
Top panels get covered with 2 layers of plastic to block light out of the tote/water (1 black and 1 silver) then a frame around edges to block out the rest of the light.
The 2 PVC parts...1 is for pump & sprayers and the smaller center one is just for supporting the weight of the plants since the panels flex over time.


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## diggs99 (Nov 23, 2019)

rkymtnman said:


> what are we doing as far as plants go?
> 
> strain?
> 
> ...



My current crop is finishing up within the next week or two. I already popped the beans for this run ( Bag of oranges by @Useful Seeds ) 

Initially i planned to take clones from the same mother but my timing and preparation are way off, so im just gonna rip some seeds and see what we get. Seeds will be going in rapid rooters tomorrow, hopefully by next weekend or shortly after, they will be ready for the aero veg box.

So i guess you can say its already started, prob be another 3-4 weeks before they actually find themselves in this big tote system tho.
Im assuming the veg box will carry them for a couple weeks ? once they begin to outgrow that ill move them into the big totes.


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## diggs99 (Nov 23, 2019)

Mak'er Grow said:


> Well I have no idea what classification my creation is or would be, but I know the few short tests I've done shows it works...made a few adjustments to things slightly since I took these pics...and probably more to come...lol
> Anyways I do 2 plants in a 2 x 4 foot area...tote is 44" x 20" (I think).
> I use 1 pump (120 VAC @ 600 L/H) for sprayers and a small one to circulate the water (12 VDC @ 240 L/H)
> I change the water every 1-2 weeks and I add about 4 L/day or 2 tops....I try to keep it between 12-16 liters,
> ...


Cool, nice job man, you got any pics of plants growing in it?


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## Mak'er Grow (Nov 23, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Cool, nice job man, you got any pics of plants growing in it?


This plant had some problems, but I think this was GG#4 at 10 weeks...found some mites about a week prior...nasty little sh!tz 
And I forgot to mention prior...I run my pump for sprayers for 10 seconds every minute...adjustable using Atmega and relays.


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## diggs99 (Nov 23, 2019)

Mak'er Grow said:


> This plant had some problems, but I think this was GG#4 at 10 weeks...found some mites about a week prior...nasty little sh!tz
> And I forgot to mention prior...I run my pump for sprayers for 10 seconds every minute...adjustable using Atmega and relays.


Oh ya, look at that chunky bitch. Nice 

Ive def noticed one common theme among aero and rdwc grows, it seems to grow a very beefy/chunky plant. Big roots , big fruits ect...

ill be happy and call it a success to make it harvest lol


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## Mak'er Grow (Nov 23, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Oh ya, look at that chunky bitch. Nice
> 
> Ive def noticed one common theme among aero and rdwc grows, it seems to grow a very beefy/chunky plant. Big roots , big fruits ect...
> 
> ill be happy and call it a success to make it harvest lol


Yes the roots grow to be half the size of the plant I find. Where I used totes to hold 2 plants meaning the size needed to be fairly large.
I calculated the size of DWC buckets volume to figure out the size I would need with it being only 7" in height and then added a little just in case and these "Under the bed totes" seem to work nicely and even have wheels to move them around easily if needed, but they DO need to be covered from light leaks or algae will grow...one of the first hurdles I had to figure out.
A new thing I've just tried is putting a "disc" (flat lid from plastic container) in bottom of the net pots. 
I kept having problems with root rot etc when I first starting building and found mostly it was starting in the middle where not much air and or water was able to get into the bulk of roots, but the outsides were fine.
By putting the "disc" in the bottom it seems to force the roots to grow out the sides and bottom edges of the pots and not through the bottoms and it leaves a large hole at the bottom of the net pots so lots of air and water can get through just fine now. (Will try to take some pics and post later).
Only other thing I can think of at this time is try to keep pumps and roots away from each other the best you can...they like each other but don't play nice with each other. 
Good luck on your grow


----------



## PhatNuggz (Nov 24, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Hey Phat, thanks for the info...got a few questions about your LPA/HPA setup if you dont mind.
> 
> What was your spraying intervals when you got the rot?
> What size of system were you running and how big was your pump?
> ...


Will try, but there are no straight forward answers


It took several lost grows to RR before I figured out that the various starter cubes I tried were getting soaked from overfeeding cycles, and/or over spray. In the case of the LPA/HPA the spray was penetrating into the net pots thereby soaking the starter cubes. Over time this cause RR at the top of the roots. Deeper rez could have cure that, or smaller pump, or...

O/O times have to be monitored based on a number of factors; RH, power of pump, temperature of nutes, ambient air temp directly at the surface of the tote (light heat will penetrate into the rez). HD Al foil is a good idea

hth


----------



## diggs99 (Nov 25, 2019)

PhatNuggz said:


> Will try, but there are no straight forward answers
> 
> 
> It took several lost grows to RR before I figured out that the various starter cubes I tried were getting soaked from overfeeding cycles, and/or over spray. In the case of the LPA/HPA the spray was penetrating into the net pots thereby soaking the starter cubes. Over time this cause RR at the top of the roots. Deeper rez could have cure that, or smaller pump, or...
> ...


Thanks for the response,

Were you using rockwool cubes or rapid rooters when you got rot ?

I plan to put my res below the table that the totes will be sitting on, so it should be protected from light/heat a little. Ill also wrap it in Foil if needed.
Should i also foil the individual totes the plants will be in? i was gonna spray the tops all black to help with light getting through.


----------



## Airwalker16 (Nov 25, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Thanks for the response,
> 
> Were you using rockwool cubes or rapid rooters when you got rot ?
> 
> ...


Be sure to use Rustoleum black spray paint. They have a line that's specifically made to bond to plastic.


----------



## diggs99 (Nov 25, 2019)

Airwalker16 said:


> Be sure to use Rustoleum black spray paint. They have a line that's specifically made to bond to plastic.


Ya i have some Krylon here already, prob the best paint ive ever used for painting plastics or vinyl....
You know you really got me thinking about how to run the pvc manifolds into the totes, i kinda like your idea of running them across the top. Is that how you ran yours?


Heres the seeds that are going in the inaugural "Diggs does Aero " run

5/5 cracked and tails showing, they are going in Rapid rooters in a few minutes.


----------



## Airwalker16 (Nov 25, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ya i have some Krylon here already, prob the best paint ive ever used for painting plastics or vinyl....
> You know you really got me thinking about how to run the pvc manifolds into the totes, i kinda like your idea of running them across the top. Is that how you ran yours?
> 
> 
> ...


Nah, mine went in through a grommet.
But I figured in a 2 plant per tote setup. Across the top light not be a bad look.
But after thinking on it, it isn't really what you'd want.
You're gonna want to go in from the side and to a square manifold to wrap around the whole top perimeter of your tote so you're spraying down and from all angles


----------



## diggs99 (Nov 25, 2019)

Airwalker16 said:


> Nah, mine went in through a grommet.
> But I figured in a 2 plant per tote setup. Across the top light not be a bad look.
> But after thinking on it, it isn't really what you'd want.
> You're gonna want to go in from the side and to a square manifold to wrap around the whole top perimeter of your tote so you're spraying down and from all angles


Ya that was the original plan and it makes sense. What about also dropping pvc legs with sprayers? or you think the manifold ring up top will me more than enough?


----------



## PhatNuggz (Nov 25, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Thanks for the response,
> 
> Were you using rockwool cubes or rapid rooters when you got rot ?
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter which starter cubes you sue, if they stay wet too long root rot will follow

keeping both the roots and the rez cool is imperative

hth


----------



## diggs99 (Nov 25, 2019)

PhatNuggz said:


> It doesn't matter which starter cubes you sue, if they stay wet too long root rot will follow
> 
> keeping both the roots and the rez cool is imperative
> 
> hth


Ya ive been doing some reading on root rot in aero , it seems a good practice is to fill a good portion of the net cup with hydroton before putting the RR or cube in the cup, then filling the remaining hydroton. Allows the rr or cube to stay up a bit further away from the constant spraying/soaking and its the roots work down into the cup and tote.

Not sure if i asked you or not but did you run a live or sterile res?


----------



## PhatNuggz (Nov 25, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ya ive been doing some reading on root rot in aero , it seems a good practice is to fill a good portion of the net cup with hydroton before putting the RR or cube in the cup, then filling the remaining hydroton. Allows the rr or cube to stay up a bit further away from the constant spraying/soaking and its the roots work down into the cup and tote.
> 
> Not sure if i asked you or not but did you run a live or sterile res?


I now double net pot with ~ 1/2" marbles between

sterile


----------



## diggs99 (Nov 25, 2019)

PhatNuggz said:


> I now double net pot with ~ 1/2" marbles between
> 
> sterile


Oh ingenious , I like it, seems it would help solving the root rot issues from cubes and rrs getting soaked.


What you using for sterile? H2o2 or pool shock or what?


----------



## diggs99 (Nov 25, 2019)

Here's my solution to rapid rooters and seeds for the aerocloner

Carve out a neoprene collar and wrap the rapid rooter, fitting it snugly in the cloner and ready for sprouting and early veg. They will then move into 3" net pots filled with hydroton

I hope it works lol....Please tell me if theres a reason you think it wont or its just a bad idea lol


----------



## Airwalker16 (Nov 25, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ya that was the original plan and it makes sense. What about also dropping pvc legs with sprayers? or you think the manifold ring up top will me more than enough?


Legs aren't a bad idea


----------



## redi jedi (Nov 25, 2019)

Root rot and stem rot are two different things. Stem rot is from the stump being constantly wet. Its like a tree in a place that is normally dry and then floods, if the area stays flooded for too long the tree dies.

Whether you use a bare root clone, rockwool or rapid rooters you need to make sure the stump stays dry or at least has a chance to dry out.


----------



## diggs99 (Nov 25, 2019)

Airwalker16 said:


> Legs aren't a bad idea


Im gonna try it with legs, see how it goes.




redi jedi said:


> Root rot and stem rot are two different things. Stem rot is from the stump being constantly wet. Its like a tree in a place that is normally dry and then floods, if the area stays flooded for too long the tree dies.
> 
> Whether you use a bare root clone, rockwool or rapid rooters you need to make sure the stump stays dry or at least has a chance to dry out.


Fair enough, im gonna try and stay on top of things to avoid root or stem root happening. i expect theres gonna be a learning curve during this first run.


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## Mak'er Grow (Nov 25, 2019)

I found keeping the sprayer manifold and sprayers up near the top of the root zone by bottom of the pot worked the best. The sprayers spray downward slightly to soak/spray down as much of the root as possible.
Try to keep roots away from everything...they wrap around anything and everything if they can...when I tried using the bottom area the roots engulfed everything to a point it wasn't hardly able to spray...lol


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## Airwalker16 (Nov 25, 2019)

Mak'er Grow said:


> I found keeping the sprayer manifold and sprayers up near the top of the root zone by bottom of the pot worked the best. The sprayers spray downward slightly to soak/spray down as much of the root as possible.
> Try to keep roots away from everything...they wrap around anything and everything if they can...when I tried using the bottom area the roots engulfed everything to a point it wasn't hardly able to spray...lol


Exactly as I was saying. Legs only to be used if you're gonna throw a sprayer on each one, half way down or so. Otherwise, just drill single holes around the top to hold the manifold up by Zip Ties. Just have the zip tie ratchet on the outside and the cinch inside to pull tightly around your PVC. One Hole so you don't have splash coning out 2. If you do it right, the ratchet of the tie will cover the hole from the outside. Make sure it's a big enough hole to fit 2 layers of the tie itself through, but not the ratcheting mechanism.


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## PhatNuggz (Nov 26, 2019)

*CAUTION:* When I added the plastic bottle I put holes all around (360*s) which meant a lot of solution was splashing up onto the underside of the lid which eventually caused the starter cubes to get soaked, leading to droopy plants (and light tan roots), all because I took too long to replace it with one where the holes were on one side, which I could rotate aiming the holes directly into the solution

Yesterday I made a h2o2 solution and soaked the roots for about an hour, making sure to get h2o2 up into the starter cubes. White roots now. Plants look a little bit better today, and should be 100 later in the day


----------



## diggs99 (Nov 26, 2019)

What should i set my timer at for the newly germinated seeds?

1/5
1/10
1/30

@Airwalker16 
@thenasty1 

@ anyone who has an opinion lol


----------



## Airwalker16 (Nov 26, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Here's my solution to rapid rooters and seeds for the aerocloner
> 
> Carve out a neoprene collar and wrap the rapid rooter, fitting it snugly in the cloner and ready for sprouting and early veg. They will then move into 3" net pots filled with hydroton
> 
> I hope it works lol....Please tell me if theres a reason you think it wont or its just a bad idea lol


That rooter is gonna get way to wet. you should keep it out of the system for a good 2 weeks before it even goes in the system


----------



## diggs99 (Nov 26, 2019)

Airwalker16 said:


> That rooter is gonna get way to wet. you should keep it out of the system for a good 2 weeks before it even goes in the system


What just growing in a rapid rooter for 2 weeks? Seriously? I already got roots coming out the bottom after one day. I can't imagine what they will be like in 2 weeks lol

So you would just leave them in the tray until they got big enough to withstand the spraying?


----------



## Airwalker16 (Nov 26, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> What just growing in a rapid rooter for 2 weeks? Seriously? I already got roots coming out the bottom after one day. I can't imagine what they will be like in 2 weeks lol
> 
> So you would just leave them in the tray until they got big enough to withstand the spraying?


Ya cause new seedlings withvjust a tap root don't do well. They need some actual roots. Are you really just gonna use collars to hold up your plants? Cause net pots and hydroton would be a lot smarter.


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## diggs99 (Nov 26, 2019)

Airwalker16 said:


> Ya cause new seedlings withvjust a tap root don't do well. They need some actual roots. Are you really just gonna use collars to hold up your plants? Cause net pots and hydroton would be a lot smarter.


No I'm using net cups and hydroton 

The plan was to pre veg them in the aero cloner and once they got big enough place them in net cup and hydroton and into the veg box.


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## PhatNuggz (Nov 27, 2019)

I hand feed with an eye dropper until they are ready to move into permanent home


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## thenasty1 (Nov 27, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> What should i set my timer at for the newly germinated seeds?


ive never popped seeds in this setup. id think 1/5 for a few days and then start increasing the off time as the roots fill out


----------



## diggs99 (Nov 27, 2019)

We have 5 above ground.


@PhatNuggz 
@thenasty1 

whats your nute nix when they are babies?

I'm using gh micro and bloom(h3ad) 
I just read a thread where dude was starting them off with 1ml micro,grow,bloom,silica,tribus - ph'd to 5.8

Seemed excessive lol


----------



## Airwalker16 (Nov 27, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> We have 5 above ground.
> 
> 
> @PhatNuggz
> ...


I've always used all 3 of the trio series and calimagic.


----------



## diggs99 (Nov 28, 2019)

Well i went ahead and tossed them in the aerocloner on 1/5 schedule. Only the very bottom of the rapid rooter is in the cloner and getting wet, altho im sure theres some wickng action also going on. I hope this works and i dont just kill them lol

We will see how it goes i guess .


----------



## Airwalker16 (Nov 28, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Well i went ahead and tossed them in the aerocloner on 1/5 schedule. Only the very bottom of the rapid rooter is in the cloner and getting wet, altho im sure theres some wickng action also going on. I hope this works and i dont just kill them lol
> 
> We will see how it goes i guess .


Seedlings need almost no water man. The more water, the less the roots care to grow and search outwards.


----------



## thenasty1 (Nov 28, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> whats your nute nix when they are babies?


i run around .8 ec (3-1-4 npk) for seedlings. they dont really eat much until they get more established, but i dont get any burn from it


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## diggs99 (Nov 30, 2019)

Just spent 20 hours without power, made me realize how much i like growing in pots lol


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## ASSOG (Dec 12, 2019)

Hey what's up diggs99. Glad to see someone trying LPA. I have been growing with LPA for the last six years and will never go back to anything else. As per my user name ASSOG. AreoSystemSeaOfGreen. I grow in the sea of green. When I first started i tried every tub or toot (whatever) out there. Except the black and yellow ones from H.D. And they all leaked. I tried everything and nothing would stop it. So i finally tried the black and yellow ones and they worked great. No leaks. But I painted the outside of the lid white. As for how tall, it doesn't matter. No matter what the roots are going to go to the bottom. You just have to make sure the roots don't block your drain hole, cause they will . Now for your net pots. I use 3 inch net pots with 3 inch neosprene incerts. Everything else will get meldew and mold or leak. With your manifold use 1/2 inch and set it about 3-4 inches from the bottom. This helps with leaks and it still covers the roots good. I use only 9 sprayers. You have to remember this is LPA not HPA. our droplet size is to big, so less is better. So this brings up pump run times. I started with 1 minute on every 5 minutes. I am now at 20 seconds on every hour. Remember this is LPA. less is better. What happens with longer run times is due to the droplet size being so big the weight of the solution ( droplets) weights down all the little root hairs into one big glob. Which im sure you know is not good. Also like some people were saying res. and solution temps. are very important. You can get away with 70 but 65 is better. Just make sure you use hydrogaurd or something. In 6 years i have never had root rot ( knock on wood). I'll tell you something this is the easiest and fastest way to grow. And once you get everything tuned in yeild is comparable with every other way you can grow ( per s/ ft) if not better ( per s/ ft). This is how i set mine up. Each areo has 23 grow sites,two areos 46 grow sites in a 3x3 area under one light. With one res. You may want to cut your four areos to one res. down, do to how many different strains you want to grow. Cause you know that they all won't finish at the same time. And it's a big pain in the butt, if you want to flush. Like i stated i grow in the SOG. I take 46 clones, in 5-7 days i have roots. In areo cloners. I wait 17 days then straight to 12/12. No veg. Depending on the strain I'm pulling anywhere from 17 gs to 35 gs per plant. Do the math, in 9 s/ ft that's pretty damn good. There's not to many people pulling that per s/ ft. Anyway sorry this took so long. And good luck. You won't be sorry for trying LPA. Later ASSOG...............


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## ASSOG (Dec 12, 2019)

Oh I just saw your last post. What I did was. I bought 4, 100 watt solar panels and everything else that was needed. It cost me about 600 bucks. But it solved that.


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## Airwalker16 (Dec 12, 2019)

A good tip as well is to find a container that will hold close to the about the amount of water you want to use, in a taller style such as a garbage can. Head pressure of the water weighing down on the pump helps it start much easier.


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 12, 2019)

ASSOG said:


> Hey what's up diggs99. Glad to see someone trying LPA. I have been growing with LPA for the last six years and will never go back to anything else. As per my user name ASSOG. AreoSystemSeaOfGreen. I grow in the sea of green. When I first started i tried every tub or toot (whatever) out there. Except the black and yellow ones from H.D. And they all leaked. I tried everything and nothing would stop it. So i finally tried the black and yellow ones and they worked great. No leaks. But I painted the outside of the lid white. As for how tall, it doesn't matter. No matter what the roots are going to go to the bottom. You just have to make sure the roots don't block your drain hole, cause they will . Now for your net pots. I use 3 inch net pots with 3 inch neosprene incerts. Everything else will get meldew and mold or leak. With your manifold use 1/2 inch and set it about 3-4 inches from the bottom. This helps with leaks and it still covers the roots good. I use only 9 sprayers. You have to remember this is LPA not HPA. our droplet size is to big, so less is better. So this brings up pump run times. I started with 1 minute on every 5 minutes. I am now at 20 seconds on every hour. Remember this is LPA. less is better. What happens with longer run times is due to the droplet size being so big the weight of the solution ( droplets) weights down all the little root hairs into one big glob. Which im sure you know is not good. Also like some people were saying res. and solution temps. are very important. You can get away with 70 but 65 is better. Just make sure you use hydrogaurd or something. In 6 years i have never had root rot ( knock on wood). I'll tell you something this is the easiest and fastest way to grow. And once you get everything tuned in yeild is comparable with every other way you can grow ( per s/ ft) if not better ( per s/ ft). This is how i set mine up. Each areo has 23 grow sites,two areos 46 grow sites in a 3x3 area under one light. With one res. You may want to cut your four areos to one res. down, do to how many different strains you want to grow. Cause you know that they all won't finish at the same time. And it's a big pain in the butt, if you want to flush. Like i stated i grow in the SOG. I take 46 clones, in 5-7 days i have roots. In areo cloners. I wait 17 days then straight to 12/12. No veg. Depending on the strain I'm pulling anywhere from 17 gs to 35 gs per plant. Do the math, in 9 s/ ft that's pretty damn good. There's not to many people pulling that per s/ ft. Anyway sorry this took so long. And good luck. You won't be sorry for trying LPA. Later ASSOG...............


Hey bud, thanks for sharing all that valuable info with me, its greatly appreciated.

Do you have a thread or journal or any pics posted anywhere to have a look at your setup?

You bring up very good points about LPA and water droplet sizes and using timers and pumps accordingly. Makes sense.

Im still in the process of building my system and my plants are currently in COCO, im gonna take clones off one of them and they will take the first voyage in the aero setup. Within 2-3 weeks hopefully.


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 12, 2019)

Airwalker16 said:


> A good tip as well is to find a container that will hold close to the about the amount of water you want to use, in a taller style such as a garbage can. Head pressure of the water weighing down on the pump helps it start much easier.


Hey AW,
How would i figure out how much water i want to use? Not sure im understanding what you mean, sorry.

I was planning on using a 40g res , with runoff draining back into the res after each spray. I have a tote that i was planning to use, are you saying it would be better if i had a taller garbage can like container instead?


----------



## Airwalker16 (Dec 12, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Hey AW,
> How would i figure out how much water i want to use? Not sure im understanding what you mean, sorry.
> 
> I was planning on using a 40g res , with runoff draining back into the res after each spray. I have a tote that i was planning to use, are you saying it would be better if i had a taller garbage can like container instead?


Your res can only be as tall as the bottom of your totes are high. A taller and skinny res will keep more water pressure above the pump. it just helps it start easier to combat the head pressure. You won't need probably.


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 13, 2019)

Airwalker16 said:


> Your res can only be as tall as the bottom of your totes are high. A taller and skinny res will keep more water pressure above the pump. it just helps it start easier to combat the head pressure. You won't need probably.


Ok that makes sense

Im still having a very difficult time finding anything to use in a sterile res, nothing local at all and trying to get anything shipped is a nightmare, you would swear the shit was illegal.


----------



## Mak'er Grow (Dec 13, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Im still having a very difficult time finding anything to use in a sterile res, nothing local at all and trying to get anything shipped is a nightmare, you would swear the shit was illegal.


I had same problems finding good bins/totes...and a lot are just too cheaply made to even consider.
Thats why I incorporated everything into the bin(s) (large "under the bed" bins) and far less worries about leaks when there are no holes.


----------



## ASSOG (Dec 13, 2019)

Hey diggs99. I don't have time to do a journal. I would throw up some pictures for you, but my PC crashed last week and i haven't had time to screw with it. I'm on my phone right now. As for your res. i don't know what size i use, but this might help. When I first start a grow it only takes me 7 gals. And then every 2 days i have to add 2 gals. I keep the solution level right at the very top of the pump. And I don't let the level go below the intake of the pump. I could probably go 3-4 days before adding more solution, but it effects the temp. of the res. As for what Airwalker was stating, was that the more solution you have above your pump the better start up pressure you will have. This really doesn't pertain to much in a LPA system. Due to our droplet size. In a HPA it's very very important. Also you can use any tub for your res. Also why do you want to go sterile ? As long as you keep your res. and solution around 65 and have NO light leaks in your areo just run some hydrogaurd or some other bennys. Just a thought. Shit I'm late, later.....


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 13, 2019)

ASSOG said:


> Hey diggs99. I don't have time to do a journal. I would throw up some pictures for you, but my PC crashed last week and i haven't had time to screw with it. I'm on my phone right now. As for your res. i don't know what size i use, but this might help. When I first start a grow it only takes me 7 gals. And then every 2 days i have to add 2 gals. I keep the solution level right at the very top of the pump. And I don't let the level go below the intake of the pump. I could probably go 3-4 days before adding more solution, but it effects the temp. of the res. As for what Airwalker was stating, was that the more solution you have above your pump the better start up pressure you will have. This really doesn't pertain to much in a LPA system. Due to our droplet size. In a HPA it's very very important. Also you can use any tub for your res. Also why do you want to go sterile ? As long as you keep your res. and solution around 65 and have NO light leaks in your areo just run some hydrogaurd or some other bennys. Just a thought. Shit I'm late, later.....


Hey bud, thanks for getting back to me.

The Reason im looking into going with a sterile res is im trying to avoid buying a chiller and without it i cant guarentee what my temps will be. The grow room is in the basement on concrete floor but the res will be in the room and my room temps are usually mid 80s. So i was told to look into sterile res for this reason.

You say you start with 7g of water and continue to monitor and top off above pump, is there any benefit to just using a bigger res ? i was under the impression it would allow for more stable ph and less top offs. Is there a reason to not do it this way?

Appreciate you taking the time to offer some help bro, thanks


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## Airwalker16 (Dec 13, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Hey bud, thanks for getting back to me.
> 
> The Reason im looking into going with a sterile res is im trying to avoid buying a chiller and without it i cant guarentee what my temps will be. The grow room is in the basement on concrete floor but the res will be in the room and my room temps are usually mid 80s. So i was told to look into sterile res for this reason.
> 
> ...


You got it twisted.
Sterile is for a chiller.
Beneficial bacteria is for without.


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## diggs99 (Dec 14, 2019)

Airwalker16 said:


> You got it twisted.
> Sterile is for a chiller.
> Beneficial bacteria is for without.


So it would be better for me to use Tribus or Hydroguard correct? Im using 45-60ppm tap water, ive seen it mentioned to not use Bennies in tap, but my tap water is clean and i dont feel the need to buy an ro system just for growing.

Ive researched this shit so much its all starting to roll into one big pile of gibberish in my head lol

Thanks


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## Airwalker16 (Dec 14, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> So it would be better for me to use Tribus or Hydroguard correct? Im using 45-60ppm tap water, ive seen it mentioned to not use Bennies in tap, but my tap water is clean and i dont feel the need to buy an ro system just for growing.
> 
> Ive researched this shit so much its all starting to roll into one big pile of gibberish in my head lol
> 
> Thanks


The problem with tap isn't PPMs. It's the Chlorine and Choloromine that treatment plants often use to clean water supply for their areas.
That's what messed with Bennie's.


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## Airwalker16 (Dec 14, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> So it would be better for me to use Tribus or Hydroguard correct? Im using 45-60ppm tap water, ive seen it mentioned to not use Bennies in tap, but my tap water is clean and i dont feel the need to buy an ro system just for growing.
> 
> Ive researched this shit so much its all starting to roll into one big pile of gibberish in my head lol
> 
> Thanks


I don't fuck with Bennie's. People always trying to justify not using a chiller. I just do it. Ro and three part with calmag. Never once gotten rot. Colder temps further increase do levels for waterfall systems, and it's only running for a total of maybe 4 hours a day. A good brand 1/10HP can easily cool 60-70gallons. Most home growers aren't gonna have too much more water than that. And even if they do, a 1/4 can do 140-150gals.


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## diggs99 (Dec 14, 2019)

I'm not trying to justify not using a chiller, i just don't want to buy one, so trying to take whatever precautions I can to avoid rot because of this. Maybe after a run or two once I know I like and want to keep growing this way I will look into buying one, but.l not right now if possible.

if I sat my res on cold basement floor and insulated sides and top from as much heat as possible, I can prob keep temps down in 65-70 range, or maybe not, not sure how much the warm room will increase water temps . Assog is only running pump 20sec of every hour so I wouldn't expect the pump to be warming too much.

Gonna be a bunch of trial and error I would imagine.


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## Airwalker16 (Dec 14, 2019)

Ya you should be fine. I'm talking rdwc


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## OldGrower (Dec 16, 2019)

I have been growing in my lpa system since @StinkBud started his thread in 08. Never used a chiller, no insulation, res sits on concrete floor. I run a sterile res and use to water (poor well water here) and use Dutch Master Zone 1ml per gal. Never a rot problem. KISS. Use hgv nutrients a touch of cal mag if needed usually not and some floralicious bloom during flower. Gl OG


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## OldGrower (Dec 16, 2019)

Ps your tap water is fine my well is 600 PM hence why I use ro


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## diggs99 (Dec 16, 2019)

OldGrower said:


> I have been growing in my lpa system since @StinkBud started his thread in 08. Never used a chiller, no insulation, res sits on concrete floor. I run a sterile res and use to water (poor well water here) and use Dutch Master Zone 1ml per gal. Never a rot problem. KISS. Use hgv nutrients a touch of cal mag if needed usually not and some floralicious bloom during flower. Gl OG


Good info, thanks for sharing. 

What are you using for sterile res?


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 16, 2019)

Diggs, do you have a local farm store like Tractor Supply or Rural King, etc you will be a surprised what they have you can use for a res


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 16, 2019)

Sterile means no organic nothing that can grow


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 16, 2019)

OldGrower said:


> Diggs, do you have a local farm store like Tractor Supply or Rural King, etc you will be a surprised what they have you can use for a res


Ya i have a couple of farm supply spots somewhat close to me, ill check them out tomorrow.

Ive had no luck finding h202 or pool shock , cant even get it shipped to me online.

Do you have any pics of your grow? would love to see some more lpa in action.


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 16, 2019)

Link for zone

Zone - Dutch Master Nutrients








Zone


Dutch Master Commercial Edition Zone - Helps maintain a pathogen-free root zone during cannabis growth




dutchmasternutrients.com


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 16, 2019)

Will post some later


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 16, 2019)

OldGrower said:


> Will post some later


Awesome, can't wait to see them.

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 16, 2019)

(3) 6 inch PVC aeroponics tube system | Page 2 | Rollitup




__





6 inch PVC aeroponics tube system


Hi Old Grower, Well I am amazed the plants are still alive, been a little worried the leaves had a few very small brown spots on them, but since I have redone the nutes and raised it to 530ppm, ph6(ish) it seems good and they are expanding well, Funny you know I am starting to see how nice it...



www.rollitup.org





Post 24 and 30 probably more


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 16, 2019)

OldGrower said:


> (3) 6 inch PVC aeroponics tube system | Page 2 | Rollitup
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh wow, nice. When I started looking into Lpa I seen the 6" pvc runs, I seriously considered trying those out and setting mine up the same way.

I opted to go with 27g totes and was planning to run pvc to each tote connected to a pvc diy 
Manifold with sprayers.

What size Rez are you using? How often you topping off or doing res changes? What are you ph'ing at?

Sorry for all the questions, your doing it, might aswell ask the guy that's doing it lol


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 16, 2019)

My setup came from this great thread
Harvest a Pound Every Three Weeks! | Rollitup




__





Harvest a Pound Every Three Weeks!


Outdoor growers are heading inside now so I thought if might be a good time to start a thread on how you can harvest a pound every three weeks from a 7x8' closet. I'll take you through my process from start to harvest. What is different about my system vs. others? 1) 3 separate Aero/NFT...



www.rollitup.org





I used 6" PVC because the fence post covers were not available, I do recommend the post covers the round tubes are hard to seal around the net pots, I use foam weather strip and change it every grow.

Totes should work fine, be sure to locate sprayers between net pots not directly under them. I use a 35 gal res because that is what I found at farm store. I use the green color sprayers they never clog red ones do. Put a sediment filter in the line feeding the sprayers. Got mine at hardware store in plumbing section at well pump area.

Be sure you will be able to get to the drain hole inside. The roots will will will clog it sooner or later. Gently pull roots out and relocate them. I pull the ends off my tubes every 2 weeks and clear drain hole.


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 16, 2019)

Look up the posts in my profile also


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 16, 2019)

OldGrower said:


> Look up the posts in my profile also


Thanks man, when I get home I'm going to read that thread and go over your posts.


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 16, 2019)

Are you using led and if so type maker watts sq ft etc


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 16, 2019)

I will try to post current pics really no change on system but will post my methods for sure


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 16, 2019)

OldGrower said:


> Are you using led and if so type maker watts sq ft etc


Yes i am using Led, i built some lights a few months back

1440 watts of DIY Cutter j series strips fixtures...im growing in a 7x14 room but only using 3x12 of that for canopy space.

this is one of them....each fixture is 3`x4`


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 16, 2019)

Nice I diy'ed CXB3590's for my area approx 1k in 25ftsq I really like led


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 16, 2019)

Ya im right at 40w/ft2 aswell for my canopy.

I could upgrade drivers and run the strips up to 2880watts if i wanted. but dont really see much need for that much light lol


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 16, 2019)

A few pics
1-top look thru LEDs 
2-end of tube, res, and inline filter
3-carbon filter, fan, and ozone gen
4-end of tube, spray feed, I like pool noodle
For netpot &hole covers


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 16, 2019)

More pics
1-tracking sheet notice week 3&4 keep all pertinent info
2-current grow
3-new mums 
4-close up

At 24 days flower


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 16, 2019)

This is the first time running these strains
Right 2 rows Lucid Blue
Mid 3 rows Gelato 33
Left 2 rows Super Sour Diesel

Messed up my moms when I went on vacation in Oct nearly lost them due to time on water system.


----------



## Nizza (Dec 16, 2019)

sorry old grower you have a horrid spider mite infestation
I can see the webbing on the close up and the mites themselves


----------



## Renfro (Dec 16, 2019)

f series said:


> So why are you growing cacti in hydro?


They actually grow really well that way.


----------



## Axion42 (Dec 16, 2019)

Nizza said:


> sorry old grower you have a horrid spider mite infestation
> I can see the webbing on the close up and the mites themselves


Also in the vegging pics it's hard to say for sure but it looks like tons of thrip damage too


----------



## Nizza (Dec 16, 2019)

they are sucking the life out of the plants and poopin on it


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 17, 2019)

__





6 HTH Shock Treatment Granules 45 Chlorine Kill Bacteria Algae 1 6 lb 52003 NEW | eBay


Find best value and selection for your 6 HTH Shock Treatment Granules 45 Chlorine Kill Bacteria Algae 1 6 lb 52003 NEW search on eBay. World's leading marketplace.



www.ebay.ca






Is this the proper pool shock i need to buy @Renfro or anyone ? its the only stuff ive found that hasnt been super shock, or ultimate shock or 17 in to shock or you get the point lol


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 17, 2019)

Good catch @Nizza have been battling the mites, had low humidity. Broke out the Knock down after trying neem oil. Predator mites on way.


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 17, 2019)

OldGrower said:


> Good catch @Nizza have been battling the mites, had low humidity. Broke out the Knock down after trying neem oil. Predator mites on way.


I thought i replied to you earlier, apparently i didnt. 

Thanks so much for sharing the pics and all that info, its nice to get an idea of whatever others are doing and how they are doing it. Not many are growing aero and if they are they arent posting about it, so a huge thank you to all of you guys who have contributed to this thread. Its been very helpful.

Im still a few weeks away from firing my system up, should be able to take clones in 2 weeks i think. Give them a week in the cloner and then ill pop them in the totes and hope for the best lol


----------



## Axion42 (Dec 17, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's what I use diggs.


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 17, 2019)

Axion42 said:


> That's what I use diggs.


Perfect, thanks bud, just about to place the order, took me forever to find a place that would ship to me. craiziness



edit: holy fk they want $70 shipping, so almost $200 cdn for 1.6lbs lol wtf


----------



## Axion42 (Dec 17, 2019)

I tried ordering from Amazon and eBay, they wouldn't ship it to my state. With eBay I got as far as paying for it but got a message from the seller a day later saying he couldn't ship to my address. I ended up finding it at the pool store.


----------



## myke (Dec 17, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Perfect, thanks bud, just about to place the order, took me forever to find a place that would ship to me. craiziness
> 
> 
> 
> edit: holy fk they want $70 shipping, so almost $200 cdn for 1.6lbs lol wtf





diggs99 said:


> Perfect, thanks bud, just about to place the order, took me forever to find a place that would ship to me. craiziness
> 
> 
> 
> edit: holy fk they want $70 shipping, so almost $200 cdn for 1.6lbs lol wtf


Canadian Tire or any hot tub place should have it.


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 17, 2019)

walmart has this stuff, its not HTH brand but is it the same stuff being used? Calcium hypochlorite?









1 lbs Calcium Hypochlorite Shock | Walmart Canada


Buy 1 lbs Calcium Hypochlorite Shock from Walmart Canada. Shop for more Pool chemicals available online at Walmart.ca



www.walmart.ca


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 17, 2019)

myke said:


> Canadian Tire or any hot tub place should have it.


Our Canadian tire dont carry it , we dont have many pools around here, so i assume its not in very high demand lol


----------



## myke (Dec 17, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Our Canadian tire dont carry it , we dont have many pools around here, so i assume its not in very high demand lol


Wonder if I could mail it to ya?Im in Calgary Canadian tire shows they have it.


----------



## myke (Dec 17, 2019)

CT are independent owned so they may not ship to your store.Did you ask?


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 17, 2019)

myke said:


> Wonder if I could mail it to ya?Im in Calgary Canadian tire shows they have it.




oh you gave me an idea, i got family in edmonton and fort mac, i can have one of them grab some and mail it.


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 17, 2019)

Much easier for me to access bennies and go live res anyway. i keep forgetting this...atleast i can order any of these from Amazon i think lol

Any idea which is best?

Hydroguard
Tribus
Great white
Dutch Master Zoom

Something not listed?


----------



## myke (Dec 17, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Much easier for me to access bennies and go live res anyway. i keep forgetting this...atleast i can order any of these from Amazon i think lol
> 
> Any idea which is best?
> 
> ...


Pool shock is $5 for a life time isn’t it? I’ve never tried it.


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 17, 2019)

myke said:


> Pool shock is $5 for a life time isn’t it? I’ve never tried it.


its 104.95+ 70.00 shipping for 1.6 lbs on ebay

i can get a small bag for 39.99 + 50.00 shipping


I just want something, live res or sterile, i need something lol


----------



## myke (Dec 17, 2019)

Canadian Tire lists it as Sock it. 454g bag is $5.49


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 17, 2019)

myke said:


> Canadian Tire lists it as Sock it. 454g bag is $5.49


Sock it is the same as Shock?

omfg, i was looking for shock specifically, i wasnt aware sock it was the same. ...im almost certain our CT had SOCK IT lol


----------



## redi jedi (Dec 17, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Sock it is the same as Shock?
> 
> omfg, i was looking for shock specifically, i wasnt aware sock it was the same. ...im almost certain our CT had SOCK IT lol


Same shit different pile...calcium hypochlorite


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 17, 2019)

redi jedi said:


> Same shit different pile...calcium hypochlorite


Thats good to know, thanks

Would this be diluted and mixed at the same ratios as shock? Thats why i went looking for shock specifically, i seen a few threads where growers had already done all the math on mixing batches . Im not smart enough to figure it out myself lol


----------



## myke (Dec 17, 2019)

This ,one gram does like a million gallons.


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 17, 2019)

myke said:


> This ,one gram does like a million gallons.


lol, nice


----------



## myke (Dec 17, 2019)

Haha. Renfro will know. Something like a tenth of a gram per 10 gallons. Idk


----------



## myke (Dec 17, 2019)

Like you have to count the grains I think. Need a very accurate scale.


----------



## redi jedi (Dec 17, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Thats good to know, thanks
> 
> Would this be diluted and mixed at the same ratios as shock? Thats why i went looking for shock specifically, i seen a few threads where growers had already done all the math on mixing batches . Im not smart enough to figure it out myself lol


Yes 1mg/L =1ppm. I normally dose at 2ppm but you could go higher if needed. Tap water can be up to 5ppm.

the math for dosing 100 gallons, 378 liters
.378 x 2 = .756mg then divide by concentration, usually 65% but it will be listed on the bag. So .756/.65 =1.16 grams, call it 1.2
Ya you need a pretty accurate scale...

Also, once you've weighed out the granules, add it to a shot glass of warm water to make sure they fully dissolve, then add that to your system/res.


----------



## myke (Dec 17, 2019)

So 1.2g per 100 gallons?


----------



## myke (Dec 17, 2019)

so 1 bag 454g does 37,800 gallons.so my 25 g system does 1512 rez changes.2 weeks say thats 58 years worth.edit........ no guarantee on math


----------



## Axion42 (Dec 17, 2019)

myke said:


> so 1 bag 454g does 37,800 gallons.so my 25 g system does 1512 rez changes.2 weeks say thats 58 years worth.


For my 30gal res I use .3g of shock. I've been told .1g for every 10gallons gives 1ppm of chlorine


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 17, 2019)

myke said:


> so 1 bag 454g does 37,800 gallons.so my 25 g system does 1512 rez changes.2 weeks say thats 58 years worth.


Ya my res is only gonna holds 40g, i should be good for a few crops per 454g bag lol


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 17, 2019)

I keep going back and forth on what to do with runoff. Part of me wants this first run to be as problem free as possible and figure just allowing the runoff to drain to waste would be smart. The other side of me says why waste water and nutes, run it back to the res and reuse.

I planned to put res under the table and just allow gravity to feed runoff back to the res. Not sure how to place the drain to ensure all water drains off, it seems no matter where i put it, theres gonna be a bit left in the bottom somewhere. Maybe im overthinking it and its no biggie either way in aero and sterile.

Im hoping to start putting things together within the next day or two. I am doing some work in my room( building a new table, running more fans and new filters etc) The plants are doing well and should be ready to start taking clones within a couple weeks.

I have all the parts for the plumbing, minus 2 ball valves that im waiting on, they said they would be in this week. Ill check with them tomorrow.


----------



## myke (Dec 17, 2019)

So..... we are back to. Ditch lpa go rdwc. Like we said 10 days ago. Go rdwc go rdwc. Lol.


----------



## Axion42 (Dec 17, 2019)

I agree Diggs ^^


----------



## ToFarGone (Dec 17, 2019)

you said you don’t know what to do with runoff? Just let it drain back to the res. Your doing water chnages every 2 weeks I’m sure I read so you won’t create that much of an imbalance in 2 weeks of any. 

If your doing drain to waste and not recirculating or reusing runoff. No need to change the res every 2 weeks. Just make sure the res water is agiltaged to keep all the nutes mixed in


----------



## thenasty1 (Dec 17, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> I keep going back and forth on what to do with runoff. Part of me wants this first run to be as problem free as possible and figure just allowing the runoff to drain to waste would be smart. The other side of me says why waste water and nutes, run it back to the res and reuse.
> 
> I planned to put res under the table and just allow gravity to feed runoff back to the res. Not sure how to place the drain to ensure all water drains off, it seems no matter where i put it, theres gonna be a bit left in the bottom somewhere. Maybe im overthinking it and its no biggie either way in aero and sterile.
> 
> ...


there is no sense in draining to waste with that setup. a little bit of water left in the tote is not a problem, even if you werent running sterile. it wont sit still long enough to cause any issues


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 18, 2019)

thenasty1 said:


> there is no sense in draining to waste with that setup. a little bit of water left in the tote is not a problem, even if you werent running sterile. it wont sit still long enough to cause any issues


Thanks for clarifying, as i said, prob just baked and overthinking it lol



myke said:


> So..... we are back to. Ditch lpa go rdwc. Like we said 10 days ago. Go rdwc go rdwc. Lol.


Nah, not even close to making that decision, as i told you 10 days ago....i want to try aero....this was just me being guilty of overthinking shit from time to time lol...i do that


----------



## myke (Dec 18, 2019)

When you combine sprayers in a tote and recirculation isnt it just rdwc anyway?The way people have designed their waterfalls its really only the water level thats different.


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 18, 2019)

myke said:


> When you combine sprayers in a tote and recirculation isnt it just rdwc anyway?The way people have designed their waterfalls its really only the water level thats different.


well not really as the roots shouldnt be submersed in water with the aero sprayers and runoff going back to the res. RDWC roots are always in water arent they?


----------



## myke (Dec 18, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> well not really as the roots shouldnt be submersed in water with the aero sprayers and runoff going back to the res. RDWC roots are always in water arent they?


Yes ,I guess theres a big difference.So theres no water at all in the bottom of the tote?


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 18, 2019)

No, there shouldnt be much water in the totes once runoff drains off. There will always be a little ofcourse, the stuff that cant get to the drain, but shouldnt be very much.



Im trying to figure out the runoff getting back to res now, originally i planned to put the res directly under the tables and just let gravity do its thing, my issue with this is height, the 50g res is 18" tall, if i put it under the table, then add another 16" for the plant totes+3-4" for the table, another 18-24" for the plants, im at 62" in height, that leaves me only 34" for lights. Its doable as i run my lights very close to the tops of my plants but it dont seem like its gonna be practical or overly comfortable for gardening.


Im considering a few options:

Use smaller totes for the plants, the 15g totes are only 11.5" , so that would gain back 5-6".....i already have top holes drilled in the 27gs but thats no big deal, i can easily find use for them elsewhere lol

Using a Lower profile res(10-12" in height) ill buy it if i can or build it if i must. I can buy 15g tote thats 11.5" tall , just not sure if its big enough tbh, other option is build one the exact size i want and line it with pond liner ala @Renfro )

Using a small low profile collection bin for the runoff with a small pump and float valve on synced timer pushing it back to the res, this way i can place my res at the end of the room and gain back some of height. This seems like a bunch more work not sure its worth the effort. I do think having res at the end would be better in my room, so thats a plus.


----------



## myke (Dec 18, 2019)

Ya u only need a little slope for gravity to feed back.So res can be anywhere really.I prefer outside the room just for convenience.


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 18, 2019)

myke said:


> Ya u only need a little slope for gravity to feed back.So res can be anywhere really.I prefer outside the room just for convenience.


Ya i dont have that luxury, this is a secret room that i built, its off a room in my basement, it has a secret door that looks like shelves and everything lol, so everything must stay in the room.

Cant really gain much if i put res at the end and by sloping the table or plumbing, i would still need to keep the plant totes higher than the top of the res tote so the drain line would fall into the res. i think? lol


----------



## dstroy (Dec 18, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> I keep going back and forth on what to do with runoff. Part of me wants this first run to be as problem free as possible and figure just allowing the runoff to drain to waste would be smart. The other side of me says why waste water and nutes, run it back to the res and reuse.
> 
> I planned to put res under the table and just allow gravity to feed runoff back to the res. Not sure how to place the drain to ensure all water drains off, it seems no matter where i put it, theres gonna be a bit left in the bottom somewhere. Maybe im overthinking it and its no biggie either way in aero and sterile.
> 
> ...


Don't recirc unless you can be there to ph the water a few times a day. Or get a controller. My aero isn't sterile. The table should be tilted slightly to wherever the drain is. 

You don't have to waste the runoff, use it to feed your house plants, garden, yard etc.


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 18, 2019)

dstroy said:


> Don't recirc unless you can be there to ph the water a few times a day. Or get a controller. My aero isn't sterile. The table should be tilted slightly to wherever the drain is.
> 
> You don't have to waste the runoff, use it to feed your house plants, garden, yard etc.


Thanks for the info man, appreciate it.

So you just drain to waste your runoff? I dont have a ph doser, def cant be in the garden multiple times daily ph`ing , i was hoping a large res would remain stable enough this wouldnt be an issue. Im guessing all that aeration will constantly be driving the ph all over the place? 

Are you using a chiller?
You have a journal or a thread somewhere showing your setup?

Thanks man


----------



## dstroy (Dec 18, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Thanks for the info man, appreciate it.
> 
> So you just drain to waste your runoff? I dont have a ph doser, def cant be in the garden multiple times daily ph`ing , i was hoping a large res would remain stable enough this wouldnt be an issue. Im guessing all that aeration will constantly be driving the ph all over the place?
> 
> ...


Nope, I recirc but I have a doser. Yeah aeration does and so do the plants (and microbes in mine) interacting with the nutrient solution. You can DTW with hp aero cause when it's dialed in it only uses a few quarts of water per plant/day and less than 1/3 of the volume of feed ends up as runoff.

I use a chiller. 

I do, at the beginning of my tennessee kush 2 journal, and in "the ultimate growing competition". I post in the daily nugg frequently as well but those are just plant shots mostly.


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 19, 2019)

dstroy said:


> Nope, I recirc but I have a doser. Yeah aeration does and so do the plants (and microbes in mine) interacting with the nutrient solution. You can DTW with hp aero cause when it's dialed in it only uses a few quarts of water per plant/day and less than 1/3 of the volume of feed ends up as runoff.
> 
> I use a chiller.
> 
> I do, at the beginning of my tennessee kush 2 journal, and in "the ultimate growing competition". I post in the daily nugg frequently as well but those are just plant shots mostly.


Ya that makes sense, it dont seem like there would be a ton of waste per plant once dialed in.

I was going to use 27g Totes for the plants and a 40g res, you think the sizing is ok for both?


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 19, 2019)

@ASSOG 
@OldGrower 

what size pumps are you guy using?

i have 2 x 396 gph pumps and 1x 800 gph pump at my disposal.


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 20, 2019)

How many sprayers?


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 20, 2019)

OldGrower said:


> How many sprayers?


I think im gonna use 12 sprayers per tote....4 totes for plants with a 40g res at the end

You said less is more in a earlier post, so 12 should be a decent number for a 27g tote?


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 20, 2019)

Use the 800 put the system together and see if you like the spray. I use a Rio 32HF pump for 30 sprayers, head height is about 36 inches so puts me around 45 GPh per sprayer. I highly recommend the Rio hf line have been using this same pump for 6 years without a problem even with cycle timing 1 on 4 off. I run 1 sprayer between each plant.
In my system each tube holds 5 net pots and I have 6 sprayers each tube so i have one sprayer between each plant and one on each end. Hope this helps


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 20, 2019)

OldGrower said:


> Use the 800 put the system together and see if you like the spray. I use a Rio 32HF pump for 30 sprayers, head height is about 36 inches so puts me around 45 GPh per sprayer. I highly recommend the Rio hf line have been using this same pump for 6 years without a problem even with cycle timing 1 on 4 off. I run 1 sprayer between each plant.
> In my system each tube holds 5 net pots and I have 6 sprayers each tube so i have one sprayer between each plant and one on each end. Hope this helps


Is there a certain range of GPH we want to each sprayer?

for instance, if i use 40 sprayers total on a 800gph pump, would this mean each sprayer is getting roughly 20gph? is this enough?

if i like growing this way ill look at upgrading to better pumps and stuff, but for now i would rather try and use what i got on hand.


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 20, 2019)

You will not get 20gph because of what is called head pressure, distance the liquid must travel vertically. Look up your pump online and you should be able to find this info from manufacturer. I know of no gph figures just gave you mine as an example. Like I said build it and see how it sprays.


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 20, 2019)

OldGrower said:


> You will not get 20gph because of what is called head pressure, distance the liquid must travel vertically. Look up your pump online and you should be able to find this info from manufacturer. I know of no gph figures just gave you mine as an example. Like I said build it and see how it sprays.


Ya that makes sense, its why AW mentioned using a taller res for the head pressure.

My 800gph has a 10` lift, so im gonna set it up using that, we will see how it goes. If its not powerful enough ill buy bigger


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 20, 2019)

How many plants you putting in each tote?


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 20, 2019)

OldGrower said:


> How many plants you putting in each tote?


I have no idea yet.

Originally i was gonna put 4-6 plants per tote for the first run . Since then ive been thinking about running 1 or two plants per tote and just veg a little longer.

Dont want to go too crazy and overwhelm myself on the maiden voyage lol


----------



## OldGrower (Dec 20, 2019)

You do not need 12 sprayers per tote, way overkill. The sprayers have a 360* pattern for 2 plants I would use 3 sprayers. Just my opinion


----------



## OneHitDone (Dec 20, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ya that makes sense, it dont seem like there would be a ton of waste per plant once dialed in.
> 
> I was going to use 27g Totes for the plants and a 40g res, you think the sizing is ok for both?


I haven't dug too deep into your thread here but will share a few observations I have made growing hydro for many many years and lots of different systems.
It is a fallacy that drain to waste "wastes" some ungodly amount of nutrients. Every overlooks the fact that your never dumping a full res to do a change out. Anyone growing in water that has had a root health issue knows what I'm talking about with the vicious pump and dump circle jerk trying to cure a root health problem.
I tried Low Pressure Aero and that was short lived. Roots exploded with growth at first but then reality set in. Whatever the temp of your room is will be the temp of your root zone. And a chiller ain't really gonna help cause your not circulating water constantly.
I am honestly uncertain how true High Pressure Aero systems have any success unless they have the root chambers buried in the ground in a cool climate or some type of root chamber cooling system in place.
Good luck on your project!


----------



## dstroy (Dec 20, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ya that makes sense, it dont seem like there would be a ton of waste per plant once dialed in.
> 
> I was going to use 27g Totes for the plants and a 40g res, you think the sizing is ok for both?


Sure, as long as you have even coverage when it's full of roots and good drainage.


----------



## diggs99 (Dec 20, 2019)

OldGrower said:


> You do not need 12 sprayers per tote, way overkill. The sprayers have a 360* pattern for 2 plants I would use 3 sprayers. Just my opinion


You think that will be enough sprayers for good coverage of the root zone in the 27g totes? Especially in flower when roots are down near bottom of tote? I was planning to place 4-6 sprayers up top on a perimeter manifold and another 4-6 running down pvc legs ... obv prob overkill as I'm prob overthinking most of this stuff lol




OneHitDone said:


> I haven't dug too deep into your thread here but will share a few observations I have made growing hydro for many many years and lots of different systems.
> It is a fallacy that drain to waste "wastes" some ungodly amount of nutrients. Every overlooks the fact that your never dumping a full res to do a change out. Anyone growing in water that has had a root health issue knows what I'm talking about with the vicious pump and dump circle jerk trying to cure a root health problem.
> I tried Low Pressure Aero and that was short lived. Roots exploded with growth at first but then reality set in. Whatever the temp of your room is will be the temp of your root zone. And a chiller ain't really gonna help cause your not circulating water constantly.
> I am honestly uncertain how true High Pressure Aero systems have any success unless they have the root chambers buried in the ground in a cool climate or some type of root chamber cooling system in place.
> Good luck on your project!


Thanks for the response and info, I guess I'll plan for insulating all the totes and res. hopefully keep the heat out as best I can. I have great success with my diy aero cloner and that probably gave me a false sense of thinking this was gonna be easy lol. Nevertheless. I'm going to try it for myself and hopefully with all the knowledge dropped in here , I'll make it work.




dstroy said:


> Sure, as long as you have even coverage when it's full of roots and good drainage.


Ya hopefully that won't be an issue with the big totes, you think 1 good sized drain will be enough? Or should I be looking at plumbing 2? Any ideas for the best drainage?



I can't thank you all enough, this is a true learning experience


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## OldGrower (Dec 20, 2019)

I would only shoot up. Water will run down roots and drip. Roots will lay in water once they hit the bottom. I tried top feed and went back to bottom feed.


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## diggs99 (Dec 20, 2019)

OldGrower said:


> I would only shoot up. Water will run down roots and drip. Roots will lay in water once they hit the bottom. I tried top feed and went back to bottom feed.


What was main reason for switching from top back to bottom? any real issues between the 2? I had always planned on spraying from the top down.... based on a few other growers aero builds.


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## OldGrower (Dec 20, 2019)

The way I did top spray with 1/4 inch tubing off a 1/2 inch feed line did not work well, and clogged. Probably if I had put sprayers into 1/2" PVC and mounted into top of tube it would have performed better.


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## diggs99 (Dec 20, 2019)

@OneHitDone 

Hey i forgot to ask in my earlier post, were you running a live or sterile res, when you encountered the issues in your aero setup?


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## Axion42 (Dec 20, 2019)

Pics diggs! Let's see the construction


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## diggs99 (Dec 20, 2019)

Axion42 said:


> Pics diggs! Let's see the construction


Haha man im awful, i hadnt even realized , no pics taken or posted yet lol.

Ill snap a few later tonight or tomorrow morning and post them. 

Not much done yet really, holes drilled up top for manifold. Pvc has all been dry fitted( still waiting on 4 ball valves and 2 more unions before i can glue it all up. I basically took my room apart last week, pulled lights down, took tables apart, i left all my fans and drivers and controllers in place, but everything else is getting a face lift of some sort. Its never ending but i love it


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## myke (Dec 20, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Haha man im awful, i hadnt even realized , no pics taken or posted yet lol.
> 
> Ill snap a few later tonight or tomorrow morning and post them.
> 
> Not much done yet really, holes drilled up top for manifold. Pvc has all been dry fitted( still waiting on 4 ball valves and 2 more unions before i can glue it all up. I basically took my room apart last week, pulled lights down, took tables apart, i left all my fans and drivers and controllers in place, but everything else is getting a face lift of some sort. Its never ending but i love it


I just went to flower on the 15th,I cant wait to finish so I can do the same.Re design my whole room.Its too dam small!


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## Axion42 (Dec 20, 2019)

You're right it never ends. After each grow I always find room for improvement in the grow space.


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## diggs99 (Dec 20, 2019)

myke said:


> I just went to flower on the 15th,I cant wait to finish so I can do the same.Re design my whole room.Its too dam small!


Yep , i hear ya

I only just built this room 2 crops ago, but like anything else in life it takes time and usually trial and error to figure out what works and how one likes things. Im just upgrading a few things and changing a few other things that i didnt like.


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## OneHitDone (Dec 20, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> @OneHitDone
> 
> Hey i forgot to ask in my earlier post, were you running a live or sterile res, when you encountered the issues in your aero setup?


If memory serves correct I think I was running Orca


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## diggs99 (Dec 22, 2019)

couple of questions if any of you fine gents wanna offer some advice

What would be best to use for drains at the bottom of the totes? will normal drains from flood tables be fine? or have you guys come up with a better solution? 

Also, should i be installing any types of filters or clean outs on the system? 


Finally found the pool shock, thanks @myke and @Axion42 , Canadian tire had it in storage but managed to find it.


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## Axion42 (Dec 22, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> couple of questions if any of you fine gents wanna offer some advice
> 
> What would be best to use for drains at the bottom of the totes? will normal drains from flood tables be fine? or have you guys come up with a better solution?
> 
> ...


I like the flood and drain fittings, it's what I used when I did HPA and what I use now for my flood setup.


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## Mak'er Grow (Dec 22, 2019)

Could you post some pictures of the equipment/parts ?
Maybe even a simple drawing.

Only thing I can say is roots can and will find their way into the drains if allowed to grow and grow, so watch how big they are and if they are blocking drain(s) and add from there if and where needed,
In my setup the water, pumps and everything sits in the tote and recycles (changed weekly and topped up every day or two), but I had to add a small pump, along with the sprayer pump, that causes a circular water flow and now the roots kind of grow in circles and away from the pump, but they used to try growing into the pump every dam time...lol
The pump also helps keep the water moving and keeps things mixed very well and its a 12VDC so pretty much no heat is added...runs 24/7...240 LPH (60GPH).


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## diggs99 (Dec 23, 2019)

Mak'er Grow said:


> Could you post some pictures of the equipment/parts ?
> Maybe even a simple drawing.
> 
> Only thing I can say is roots can and will find their way into the drains if allowed to grow and grow, so watch how big they are and if they are blocking drain(s) and add from there if and where needed,
> ...


Hey, thanks for stopping by and sharing your experience. I have been slacking hard with this project so far, i basically only got holes drilled in totes and pvc 90% dry fitted( still waiting for a few parts)

Ill do my best to remember to grab some pics later this evening. I can give you a short rundown of the build tho.

4 x 27g hdx totes for plants
1x 50g reservoir
800gph pump
the cheapo red misters
3/4" pvc for all plumbing until i reach the totes, then i reduce to 1/2" pvc for manifold inside totes with sprayers.
Ball valves to every tote to they can be isolated when finished or having issues.
3" net cups
neoprene collars


Still undecided on runoff, i might take @dstroy advice and not worry about it too much, just let it drain to waste , rather than recirculate and have to worry about the issues that come with it( auto dosing ph etc)

This was never really about recirculation, i truly dont care about wasting a bit of nutes, this is about making this LPA aero work on the first try lol....i can start adding on to the system or making it more advanced once i know i can make it work with the basics.


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## dstroy (Dec 23, 2019)

Just try it by building one site before you commit to see how much water it will use. That’ll tell you if it’s feasible or not.


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## Valhellion (Dec 23, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Yes, you can run the pump 24/7 if you want with LPA, i still havent decided my pump schedule.
> 1/5
> 1/10
> 24/7
> seem to be what ive seen most use. Not a ton of info out there on LPA tho, compared to DWC or RDWC or ebb and flo ect..


ive used lpa for 20+ yrs. misting time: 35 seconds on, 15 minutes off. Roots want to feel a bit thirsty not drowning. plus, infusing outdoor air w/ air pumps helps to keep them healthy. Healthy white robust roots= Robust flowers. Keep main Rez cool w/ cooling coil and air stones for bubbling effect. Now you’re golden, eh?!


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## Valhellion (Dec 23, 2019)

dstroy said:


> Just try it by building one site before you commit to see how much water it will use. That’ll tell you if it’s feasible or not.


I prefer the eco jet Leader pumps. .5 hp for smaller areas to 1hp for larger areas. Even 2 @ 1 hp’s in a larger Rez for larger areas.


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## diggs99 (Dec 23, 2019)

Axion42 said:


> I like the flood and drain fittings, it's what I used when I did HPA and what I use now for my flood setup.


Do you have a pic of your drain setup? which actual fittings you used? our hydro store has a bunch of different fittings but i really wasnt sure which to buy, and that dude dont have a fkn clue at all, he was more useless than i was lol


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## Axion42 (Dec 23, 2019)

Dont have any pics on hand but I just built a small system using the concrete mixing tubs from Lowes and a 17gal res that the tub sits on. I use these fittings from Amazon.
Hydrofarm AAKEF2 Active Aqua Fill/Drain Combo Kit, Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00P218CAM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_UsyaEbMC14RDJ


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## diggs99 (Dec 23, 2019)

Axion42 said:


> Dont have any pics on hand but I just built a small system using the concrete mixing tubs from Lowes and a 17gal res that the tub sits on. I use these fittings from Amazon.
> Hydrofarm AAKEF2 Active Aqua Fill/Drain Combo Kit, Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00P218CAM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_UsyaEbMC14RDJ


Ya i seen similar today, might just use a threaded bulkhead or grommet with barbed fitting and hose( thanks @Renfro), i have all that stuff on hand lol

Xmas got me swamped, gonna really try and get at this tomorrow. WITH PICS LOL


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## diggs99 (Dec 26, 2019)

Well still no progress or pics, xmas and family visting makes it hard to get anything done, i did however order 2.5 gallons of hydroguard.

They are Fkn gouging us on amazon.ca man, its crazy....1gallon on .ca was $159.99 + $72 for shipping. cdn prices.

I just ordered 2.5 gallons on .com for $207.54 cdn shipped to my door....extra 1.5 gallons and still $25 cheaper than the 1g on .ca


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## ASSOG (Dec 27, 2019)

Hey what's up diggs99? Looks like your getting some good advice. I've been super busy. Slacking on my grows. But everything is cool. Anyway there is a great post on another app. This dude was the man. This dude's post will answer everything you want to know. This dude's post is why I grow with AreoSystemSeaOfGreen. It's a very old post but this dude explains all the pros and cons with pictures. Its also a very long post. Plus i think you will like his grow set up. He has a secret door to his grow rooms. Check out THE PIRATES CAVE on the ICMAG site. His set up will blow you away. Good luck bro. Later ASSOG..............


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## redi jedi (Dec 28, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Well still no progress or pics, xmas and family visting makes it hard to get anything done, i did however order 2.5 gallons of hydroguard.
> 
> They are Fkn gouging us on amazon.ca man, its crazy....1gallon on .ca was $159.99 + $72 for shipping. cdn prices.
> 
> I just ordered 2.5 gallons on .com for $207.54 cdn shipped to my door....extra 1.5 gallons and still $25 cheaper than the 1g on .ca


Why? Didnt you find pool shock at crappy tire? I know you live on the rock but that doesnt mean you have to be stupid!


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## diggs99 (Dec 28, 2019)

redi jedi said:


> Why? Didnt you find pool shock at crappy tire? I know you live on the rock but that doesnt mean you have to be stupid!


Pool shock wont allow me to run a live res , im not using a chiller, live res seems best in my situation and was recommended to me since i started talking about this project. Not sure why that would matter so much to you, that you feel the need to insult me lol

What's the issue here? The price ? Or the product? I did some reading, it seemed growers were all liking the hydroguard and having success with it. I wasn't a fan of the price either but if it works and decreases the chances of me having issues I'm all for it.

I tried getting Southern ag but could t find anywhere to ship to Canada. 

If I stay growing this way, I'm sure I'll want to find a cheaper option or buy a chiller and run sterile. For my first time running the system, if buying and using hydroguard helps me get to harvest. I'll call it a win lol


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## diggs99 (Dec 28, 2019)

ASSOG said:


> Hey what's up diggs99? Looks like your getting some good advice. I've been super busy. Slacking on my grows. But everything is cool. Anyway there is a great post on another app. This dude was the man. This dude's post will answer everything you want to know. This dude's post is why I grow with AreoSystemSeaOfGreen. It's a very old post but this dude explains all the pros and cons with pictures. Its also a very long post. Plus i think you will like his grow set up. He has a secret door to his grow rooms. Check out THE PIRATES CAVE on the ICMAG site. His set up will blow you away. Good luck bro. Later ASSOG..............


Hey bud, thanks for popping by. Ill def check that dude out today, see what his setup is all about. Thanks.


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## redi jedi (Dec 28, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Pool shock wont allow me to run a live res , im not using a chiller, live res seems best in my situation and was recommended to me since i started talking about this project. Not sure why that would matter so much to you, that you feel the need to insult me lol
> 
> What's the issue here? The price ? Or the product? I did some reading, it seemed growers were all liking the hydroguard and having success with it. I wasn't a fan of the price either but if it works and decreases the chances of me having issues I'm all for it.
> 
> ...


Lol, my bad I was just kidding. Seriously though the price of hydroguard is just nuts. So I dont know why you wouldnt try shock first? I use it and I dont run a chiller anymore.


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## diggs99 (Dec 28, 2019)

redi jedi said:


> Lol, my bad I was just kidding. Seriously though the price of hydroguard is just nuts. So I dont know why you wouldnt try shock first? I use it and I dont run a chiller anymore.


All good bud, i agree with you tbh, its absurdly priced compared to the southern ag and especially to running sterile, but alas, i couldnt find anywhere to ship the southern ag to me. Ive never used pool shock and that too scared me a little lol

a few guys had mentioned issues they had in aero and all seemed to think it was because of no chiller and non live res. So i figured wtf, if i can get the hydroguard, ill just buy it and hope it helps decrease my chances of problems.

As i said tho, if this becomes my way of growing permanently and once i see just how the room runs with the aero setup( res temps etc) ill def be trying to find a cheaper solution for sure.

This might all be for nothing, after i insulate my res, it might stay cool enough to not even be an issue, one can hope lol


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## ASSOG (Dec 28, 2019)

Hey diggs99. Dude I think you are worrying to much about your res. temps. You're be fine. I'm glad you decided not to go sterile. You will be fine with hydrogaurd. Plus you don't have to use that much. When I was using it, i only used like 2 tsp per 5 gal so it goes a long way. Plus going this way will give you more options to try other things to increase your yeild and quality. Where as if you went sterile you couldn't use these other products. Have you checked out PIRATES CAVE yet ? I hope you enjoy it. But man it's a long read. Shit I've probably read that 9-10 times over the years. I still go through it every once in a while. Anyway later ASSOG......


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## diggs99 (Dec 29, 2019)

ASSOG said:


> Hey diggs99. Dude I think you are worrying to much about your res. temps. You're be fine. I'm glad you decided not to go sterile. You will be fine with hydrogaurd. Plus you don't have to use that much. When I was using it, i only used like 2 tsp per 5 gal so it goes a long way. Plus going this way will give you more options to try other things to increase your yeild and quality. Where as if you went sterile you couldn't use these other products. Have you checked out PIRATES CAVE yet ? I hope you enjoy it. But man it's a long read. Shit I've probably read that 9-10 times over the years. I still go through it every once in a while. Anyway later ASSOG......


Hey bud,

Im in the process of reading it, lots of good info but as you said, not a short read lol...im on page 22 of 71 lol


Ya im glad to have found the Hydroguard, hopefully it works for my situation , the price sucked lol


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## OldGrower (Dec 29, 2019)

I need to change the statement I made earlier about the pump I am using. Earlier I said I was using a Rio 33hf which is incorrect. The pump I am actually using is a Rio Plus 2245. As stated earlier it is highly reliable even after 6 years of on/off cycling.


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## diggs99 (Dec 30, 2019)

ASSOG said:


> Hey diggs99. Dude I think you are worrying to much about your res. temps. You're be fine. I'm glad you decided not to go sterile. You will be fine with hydrogaurd. Plus you don't have to use that much. When I was using it, i only used like 2 tsp per 5 gal so it goes a long way. Plus going this way will give you more options to try other things to increase your yeild and quality. Where as if you went sterile you couldn't use these other products. Have you checked out PIRATES CAVE yet ? I hope you enjoy it. But man it's a long read. Shit I've probably read that 9-10 times over the years. I still go through it every once in a while. Anyway later ASSOG......



Oh man, thanks for putting me onto that thread, theres a wealth of info in there. Thanks bud.




OldGrower said:


> I need to change the statement I made earlier about the pump I am using. Earlier I said I was using a Rio 33hf which is incorrect. The pump I am actually using is a Rio Plus 2245. As stated earlier it is highly reliable even after 6 years of on/off cycling.


Thanks for clarifying og.....ill toss one in my amazon cart for next time im shopping lol


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## ASSOG (Dec 30, 2019)

Your very welcome bro. I'm glad to help. That pirate was quite a character wasn't he ? And his set up was one of kind, I've never seen anything even close to that set up. And his post is right on, I've never seen anyone go into detail like he did. His areos are cool by having the lids inside of the grow chamber, so there are no leaks. To tell you the truth, that's about the only problem i have ever had growing with LPA. Every tub i tried would leak like crazy. And I tried everything to stop the leaks. Except silicone, cause you want to be able to open the lid when ever you want with no problems. I use the black and yellow tubs now from home Depot but I paint the outside of the yellow lid white so it doesn't draw any heat I haven't had any leaks with these tubs. How did you like his yeild ? For going with the SOG. He was averaging about a half oz per plant. So that would be 25 ozs per areo in a 3x3 area. With 50 main tops and very little little bull shit buds. If you stop and think about it. If you are growing indoors in soil, one plant is going to take up 3 s/ft, and if you are lucky you will get 2-3 main tops and then the rest of the buds are half assed buds. And I know you won't be pulling 25 ozs off that one plant. And then all the time you take to train the plant in veg. just isn't worth it, to me. Just to much work and time for a half assed yeild. SOG is the only way to go with areoponics. It is so easy and takes hardly any time. Anyway good luck on what ever you decide, i have a feeling you will do very good at what ever you decide.


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## diggs99 (Jan 1, 2020)

ASSOG said:


> Your very welcome bro. I'm glad to help. That pirate was quite a character wasn't he ? And his set up was one of kind, I've never seen anything even close to that set up. And his post is right on, I've never seen anyone go into detail like he did. His areos are cool by having the lids inside of the grow chamber, so there are no leaks. To tell you the truth, that's about the only problem i have ever had growing with LPA. Every tub i tried would leak like crazy. And I tried everything to stop the leaks. Except silicone, cause you want to be able to open the lid when ever you want with no problems. I use the black and yellow tubs now from home Depot but I paint the outside of the yellow lid white so it doesn't draw any heat I haven't had any leaks with these tubs. How did you like his yeild ? For going with the SOG. He was averaging about a half oz per plant. So that would be 25 ozs per areo in a 3x3 area. With 50 main tops and very little little bull shit buds. If you stop and think about it. If you are growing indoors in soil, one plant is going to take up 3 s/ft, and if you are lucky you will get 2-3 main tops and then the rest of the buds are half assed buds. And I know you won't be pulling 25 ozs off that one plant. And then all the time you take to train the plant in veg. just isn't worth it, to me. Just to much work and time for a half assed yeild. SOG is the only way to go with areoponics. It is so easy and takes hardly any time. Anyway good luck on what ever you decide, i have a feeling you will do very good at what ever you decide.


Oh man, took me a few days of reading off and on, but i got through that thread finally. So much good info. He had the cave dialed in for sure.

Happy new year bud, thanks for helping me out.


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## ASSOG (Jan 1, 2020)

Happy New year to you as well. I didn't do anything special. I have a areo of some blueberry that is at 14 weeks 12/12. The tops just keep flowering and getting fat. But last night i noticed some color on some of the lower buds. So i took the first 2. I'm going to try and post some pictures with this phone. There will be pictures of 2 different plants. In some of the pictures it will look like there is 2 plants, but it was one plant. It separated when I was trimming it. Each plant is 23" tall. And the tops are as big around as my fist. When dry each of them will be over a oz. I have 22 more to go. In a areo that is 18x27. So roughly 6 s/ft. Total yeild for that areo will be 24-25 ozs. Now the areo i had teamed up with this had GSC in it. It doesn't yeild to good but man they get very frosty that when i take a picture the buds are all white you can't even see any color. Now with these i only averaged 17 gs per. In the same area 6 s/ ft. So around 12 ozs. Shit I'll take that all day long. Anyway I'm going to try and post these. Later ASSOG.


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## diggs99 (Jan 4, 2020)

Still waiting on a few parts for the 4 tote system. In the mean time I did build an 8 site veg box last evening. 

I finally made up my mind, gonna take 12-15 clones, throw them in the cloner, best looking 8 win. Move them to the veg box and into net pots until roots start spreading out, hopefully by then I’ll have the other system built. Then they will be moved into the bigger totes, 2 plants per tote. Throw up a scrog net and let them veg until the screen is filled to my liking. I’m choosing to scrog for a couple reasons, support mainly, I keep hearing of the issues aero plants have once they get big, wanting to tip themselves over.

I know I should just be running a sog with this setup but I don’t want to right now, if it goes well I’ll def be doing bigger counts in the future.

hopefully the last parts I need will be here by next week, it’s all ready to put together once they do.


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## diggs99 (Jan 5, 2020)

The room is mostly put back together. Still Waiting on a few parts to start the plumbing for the big system.

I have the one girl secluded and will be taking clones later today and tossing them in the cloner.


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 5, 2020)

Lookin' good


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## diggs99 (Jan 7, 2020)

Heres the clones for the inaugural run .

Only managed to get 9 decent cuts , hopefully get 8 to root, we need atleast 4 lol


Timer is set for 1min on /15min off


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## myke (Jan 7, 2020)

nice!


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## Axion42 (Jan 7, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Heres the clones for the inaugural run .
> 
> Only managed to get 9 decent cuts , hopefully get 8 to root, we need atleast 4 lol
> 
> ...


What kind of sprayers are you using in your cloner?


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## diggs99 (Jan 7, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> What kind of sprayers are you using in your cloner?


just the el cheapo red ones from amazon.


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## Axion42 (Jan 7, 2020)

So you've already had a Low pressure aero setup, but only for cloning?


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## diggs99 (Jan 7, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> So you've already had a Low pressure aero setup, but only for cloning?


yes, i built the aero cloner 4-5 crops ago, used it a few times, mostly to give cuts to my bros in need lol


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## myke (Jan 7, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> yes, i built the aero cloner 4-5 crops ago, used it a few times, mostly to give cuts to my bros in need lol


I’m a bro in need


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## myke (Jan 9, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> The room is mostly put back together. Still Waiting on a few parts to start the plumbing for the big system.
> 
> I have the one girl secluded and will be taking clones later today and tossing them in the cloner.


So your drain bulkheads will be on the bottom?Water lines in will they also be on the bottom?Will be a very clean look then.I hate hoses and drains sticking out everywhere.


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## diggs99 (Jan 15, 2020)

myke said:


> So your drain bulkheads will be on the bottom?Water lines in will they also be on the bottom?Will be a very clean look then.I hate hoses and drains sticking out everywhere.


Yes drains will be at the bottom. Manifold with sprayers will come in at the back through the upper part of the tote. Each tote has its own ball valve and can be disconnect for cleaning or repairs.

believe it or not I’m still waiting for parts to show up. Got the main plumbing roughed in, hoping the few other things I need show up ASAP so I can finish the lids and get it going for a test ren or 12 lol

here’s a bonus pic of the future girls that will go in this system. I think they went into the cloner either 9 or 10 days ago.

Also still have a few cosmetic things to do to the room before I’m totally done. I’m pretty lazy these days, so everything is happening slowly lol


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## Axion42 (Jan 15, 2020)

Hell yah dude nice roots for 9 days I need to make me an aero cloner. I just use air stones and I'll get roots in 7-10 days but not like that. Mine come out more long and stringy, not as dense and I have to let them sit in cloner for about a week longer before I can transplant into my rdwc.


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## diggs99 (Jan 16, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> Hell yah dude nice roots for 9 days I need to make me an aero cloner. I just use air stones and I'll get roots in 7-10 days but not like that. Mine come out more long and stringy, not as dense and I have to let them sit in cloner for about a week longer before I can transplant into my rdwc.


Ya man, these cloners are truly made for dummies, mine was even made by one lol


For real tho, they work. I havent touched the water or anything since the day i put them in the cloner, havent checked ph ,ppm, nada.....Im moving them into the net cups/collars and into the new veg box this morning. Not sure how long they will last in there tho, hopefully long enough for me to get the big system finished lol, the roots are def growing at a nice pace it seems.


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## Keesje (Jan 17, 2020)

Nice and clean set up!
Good and healthy looking roots!


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## diggs99 (Jan 17, 2020)

Keesje said:


> Nice and clean set up!
> Good and healthy looking roots!


thanks bud.

here’s a pic from a few mins ago. I’m just waiting for my bottle of hydroguard to get here in an hour or two, then I’m gonna mix 3GS of nite solution and start the veg box with net pots.

I think I’m gonna try @ASSOG method and just use neoprene collars in my cups. No hydroton.

I got a few ideas for anchor pointsfor tying down the plants and keeping them from falling over lol.


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## 2com (Jan 17, 2020)

Are those pics of your roots, in your setup? Wow.


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## diggs99 (Jan 17, 2020)

2com said:


> Are those pics of your roots, in your setup? Wow.


Yes , i took the cuttings 11-12 days ago and tossed them in this diy cooler cloner lol. Like cloning for dummies with this thing, i swear.


----------



## 2com (Jan 17, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> Hell yah dude nice roots for 9 days I need to make me an aero cloner. I just use air stones and I'll get roots in 7-10 days but not like that. Mine come out more long and stringy, not as dense and I have to let them sit in cloner for about a week longer before I can transplant into my rdwc.


The roots appearance (branching, etc) can be due to nutrients. I know phosphorus plays a role in root development, iirc. Just throwing that out there.


----------



## myke (Jan 17, 2020)

Was there a tutorial on your clone box?im gonna build one. What size pump? Your one minute on 15 off? Red sprayers. What’s the pipe size inside. Cheers.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 17, 2020)

myke said:


> Was there a tutorial on your clone box?im gonna build one. What size pump? Your one minute on 15 off? Red sprayers. What’s the pipe size inside. Cheers.


Nah i never followed any tutorial, i just googled diy aero cloner and seen a pic of this cooler cloner, i made a variation of it to suit my needs.

Parts list :
Cooler or tote
small pump , i used 396 gph, cheap pump from amazon.
neoprene collars , whatever size you want
3/4" Pvc for manifold is what i used....1/2" would work just as well.
El cheapo red misters from amazon

tools:
Drill
Hole saw or spade bit the size of your collars
Drill bit for fitting misters


Its literally drilling as many holes as you want/need
Building a pvc manifold( the one in the pic below is even easier than what i made.
Fill it with 2gs of water and plug it into a timer, i run mine 1 min on and 15mins off when they are rooting.


----------



## 2com (Jan 17, 2020)

myke said:


> Was there a tutorial on your clone box?im gonna build one. What size pump? Your one minute on 15 off? Red sprayers. What’s the pipe size inside. Cheers.


There are at least a dozen good ones on forums and youtube, just incase you didn't search youtube yet. How many sites/sprayers you use will likely determine the pump size. Sorry, kinda general suggestions.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 17, 2020)

2com said:


> There are at least a dozen good ones on forums and youtube, just incase you didn't search youtube yet. How many sites/sprayers you use will likely determine the pump size. Sorry, kinda general suggestions.


nah these cloners dont even require much thought in building them lol....just the dimensions of your container basically and the size of the holes you need to drill lol

i used 12 misters in the first one with a 396 pump, it worked all the same as 4 did on the same pump, bit more pressure on the 4, but nothing that mattererd.. Seen another growing using a pump not even half the size as mine and works the same.


----------



## 2com (Jan 17, 2020)

@diggs99 So no nutes in the cloner? Just tap water? What temp is the water?
DIY pool shock: 



Because finding pool shock will probably be more difficult than it should be? Also, I can't remember the active ingredient in hydroguard, but it's something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_amyloliquefaciens I think.

I know you're probably deep into other threads, there was a (super long) thread on ICmag called "bio buckets' something or other. I only mention it because it was a non-sterile recirculating hydro setup with no chillers or aeration other than a slight waterfall, iirc. Bad ass system.


----------



## Keesje (Jan 17, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> I got a few ideas for anchor pointsfor tying down the plants and keeping them from falling over lol.


Don't know of course what your ideas are, but if you want to use no medium (only the neoprene collars, check out this post by KLX.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-klx-way.960314/

Are you using any rooting powder or gel? (Or did I already ask this before?)


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## diggs99 (Jan 17, 2020)

@myke 

This is mine that i built....i only wanted 12-15 usable sites, i used 2" neoprene collars..

396gph pump
coleman cooler
red misters from amazon( cheap ones)
3/4" pvc pipe
4x 3/4" pvc 90s
3x 3/4" pvc tees

i think thats it.


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## diggs99 (Jan 17, 2020)

Keesje said:


> Don't know of course what your ideas are, but if you want to use no medium (only the neoprene collars, check out this post by KLX.
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-klx-way.960314/
> 
> Are you using any rooting powder or gel? (Or did I already ask this before?)


Ya , i been reading lots of @klx stuff, he got some nice ideas and knows the hydro world for sure.

I used clonetek when they were cut, then i tossed them in the cloner with a 300ppm nute mix+ tapwater. i ph`d the water when i put it in the cloner, havent touched a thing since.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 18, 2020)

Here they are the next morning after moving into the veg box and net cups. Roots already poking out through the cups.

I did change the timer to 1/20 as after 15mins I was still seeing lots of water on the roots and cups. As I’ve said before, gonna be lots of trial and error before I get it all figured out lol


also a couple bonus pics during transplant.


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## Keesje (Jan 18, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> I did change the timer to 1/20 as after 15mins I was still seeing lots of water on the roots and cups. As I’ve said before, gonna be lots of trial and error before I get it all figured out lol


Why would it matter if there is still lots of water om the roots and cups?
Or do you look at it from a 'less energy consumption' point of view?


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 18, 2020)

Keesje said:


> Why would it matter if there is still lots of water om the roots and cups?
> Or do you look at it from a 'less energy consumption' point of view?


i honestly dont know why it would matter lol....it probably dosent

My idea is always less is more, so if they are staying saturated at 15mins, maybe they will also be wet at 20....25....30mins? Is there a benefit to running pumps/spraying more frequently? If there is, ill try that out haha

This being my first time, i really dont know what im doing, just tinkering with things until i get an idea lol


----------



## Keesje (Jan 18, 2020)

I don't have a straight answer to that, but will give you some thoughts.

* Roots can only absorb oxygen when they are wet or damp. So totally dry roots can not absorb oxygen anymore. This does not mean that the plant dies immediately, because there are some reserves in the plant. So, for that reason, keep your roots moist.
* An electrical or mechanical pump will always heat up the water. It can be just a little bit, but it will happen. If there is a temperature you want to maintain, that is something to consider. If your res is on a really cold floor, the heat of a pump can even be beneficial. But if your water becomes too warm, longer pump intervals could help.
* There are studies that show that the more times during a day the roots gets new water + nutrients, the better the yield (it was not a test on cannabis) So more floodings with short intervals > higher yield. The researchers thought that it had to do with the fact that water + nutrients + oxygen are available almost all the time. No overwatering, no overfeeding, no under-oxygenation. Everything is there for the roots when they need it.

Personally I think it will not matter that much in your case. Hahaha. 
I mean every 15 or 20 minutes... not much of a difference. There will still be enough water + nutrients around the roots after 20 minutes. Probably also after 30 minutes. 2 hours without any medium is something else.
I was just really curious what made you decide that.


----------



## gr865 (Jan 18, 2020)

Run my DIY EZ Cloner at 20 sec off/10 sec on.
First run got 34 out of 34 rooted and transplanted.
Have not had any success with clones from this grow, got small roots on a couple of clones but the plants just wilted and died. 
Not sure WTF is up with this.


----------



## boybelue (Jan 18, 2020)

If you can run your pumps 24/7 without temp issues, in my experience its better. I think it keeps things more aerated.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 18, 2020)

Keesje said:


> I don't have a straight answer to that, but will give you some thoughts.
> 
> * Roots can only absorb oxygen when they are wet or damp. So totally dry roots can not absorb oxygen anymore. This does not mean that the plant dies immediately, because there are some reserves in the plant. So, for that reason, keep your roots moist.
> * An electrical or mechanical pump will always heat up the water. It can be just a little bit, but it will happen. If there is a temperature you want to maintain, that is something to consider. If your res is on a really cold floor, the heat of a pump can even be beneficial. But if your water becomes too warm, longer pump intervals could help.
> ...


Ya this all makes perfect sense, im probably just overthinking things, i do that from time to time lol

I can run the pump 1on / 7 or 8 off and keep temps in the 69-70f range in the cooler. So maybe i was looking at things in reverse, rather than increase off time, i can decrease it and spray more often.



I tried 1/5 and temps shot up to 75-76.....24/7 and it gets hot quick.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 18, 2020)

gr865 said:


> Run my DIY EZ Cloner at 20 sec off/10 sec on.
> First run got 34 out of 34 rooted and transplanted.
> Have not had any success with clones from this grow, got small roots on a couple of clones but the plants just wilted and died.
> Not sure WTF is up with this.


Ya i ran my cloner 1min on and 15 off, had very good success.


Ive seen so many variations of times, im starting to think it dont matter lol


----------



## Keesje (Jan 18, 2020)

boybelue said:


> If you can run your pumps 24/7 without temp issues, in my experience its better. I think it keeps things more aerated.


I think with sprayers it does not work like this.
The moment the sprayers stop, the wet roots are surrounded by oxygen in gaseous state. How much more aerated do you want it to be?
The oxygen in the air hits the water around the roots, turns into DO and can be absorbed by the roots. Plenty of oxygen around the roots.


----------



## boybelue (Jan 18, 2020)

Keesje said:


> I think with sprayers it does not work like this.
> The moment the sprayers stop, the wet roots are surrounded by oxygen in gaseous state. How much more aerated do you want it to be?
> The oxygen in the air hits the water around the roots, turns into DO and can be absorbed by the roots. Plenty of oxygen around the roots.


There has to be surface tension to aerate the solution. A small coating of water over the roots, whether it be only a few thousandths will not become aerated by contact with oxygen.


----------



## Keesje (Jan 18, 2020)

boybelue said:


> There has to be surface tension to aerate the solution. A small coating of water over the roots, whether it be only a few thousandths will not become aerated by contact with oxygen.


How do roots in soil get oxygen then?

And oxygen does get in the water by any contact with water. The most efficient way is on the surface of water when this is agitated.
But even with bubbles in water there will be an exchange between the water and the oxygen in the bubbles. Very inefficient, but it will happen.
When roots are damp and surrounded by air, there is air pressure. The air pressure will 'push' the O2 into the water.
And because there are so many mg of O2 in air, there will be plenty of it.

Or did I misunderstand what you meant?


----------



## boybelue (Jan 18, 2020)

Keesje said:


> How do roots in soil get oxygen then?
> 
> And oxygen does get in the water by any contact with water. The most efficient way is on the surface of water when this is agitated.
> But even with bubbles in water there will be an exchange between the water and the oxygen in the bubbles. Very inefficient, but it will happen.
> ...


Im talking about supersaturation not just the equilibrium from atmospheric pressure. It takes agitation to reach supersaturation. Water continuously on the move can reach supersaturation, but those down times when the pump is off the saturation will equalize out back to equilibrium. I use to know more about this but my mind/memory is rusty but you can look into Henry's law and itll be accurate and wayyyy more factual than my tired ole mind! Lol


----------



## Keesje (Jan 18, 2020)

Thanks for the explanation.

I will comment a bit (because this is a forum and info might help others)
The basics of Low Pressure Hydroponics and High Pressure Hydroponics is that you give relatively short burst of water to your roots.
This helps save water and provides lots of oxygen. (just 2 of the benefits)

It might be that supersaturation will be easier reached by water continuously on the move.
I know too little about supersaturation.
What I can say is that supersaturation is not needed with hydro. Not with DWC, HPA, LPA, RDWC, Waterfall, E&F, flooming, whatever.

Roots can only absorb a certain amount of O2 per day. (around 200 mg per hour per kilo of roots is very average)
With roots being damp and in touch with air, there is plenty of O2.
All this O2 will hit the water > it will get absorbed by the water > because - as you said - this is Henry's Law. There is always an exchange between liquids and gasses. At a certain moment the exchange will stop when the equilibrium is reached.
But when the roots start absorbing this DO (that got there because of Henry's Law), there will be an imbalance again. At that moment the water will absorb fresh O2 again. The whole cycle starts over. And over, and over. As long as the roots want oxygen, there is an endless amount of O2.

With HPA and LPA the damp roots are surrounded by O2 in gaseous state. Ideal circumstances for the roots.


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## boybelue (Jan 18, 2020)

Keesje said:


> Thanks for the explanation.
> 
> I will comment a bit (because this is a forum and info might help others)
> The basics of Low Pressure Hydroponics and High Pressure Hydroponics is that you give relatively short burst of water to your roots.
> ...


Imo I believe with any method of hydro, excluding HPA, a super oxygenated solution is superior to equilibrium. Ive ran many different types of hydro and I always had better results running my pumps 24/7 as long as the temps were maintained at the proper level as warmer solutions will not hold as much DO. I built several LPA units with nft type chambers or plastic 4x4 and 5x5 fence post covers. I played around with timers at different on/off times and had CAP timers that came preset to 1min on 4min off. I tried 3 different pumps. In the end my plants responded best to a 24/7 feed cycle and a 1200gph pump which was the largest with the others being 800gph and 1000gph. This was just my experience, others may be different.


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## diggs99 (Jan 22, 2020)

Here are pics from day 3 in the veg box

almost got the big system finished, should be testing it this morning hopefully .


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## icetech (Jan 22, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Here are pics from day 3 in the veg box
> 
> almost got the big system finished, should be testing it this morning hopefully .


Those look perfect.


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## myke (Jan 22, 2020)

Curious why you made a veg system. Could you have not left them in the cloner?


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## diggs99 (Jan 22, 2020)

icetech said:


> Those look perfect.


Thanks man



myke said:


> Curious why you made a veg system. Could you have not left them in the cloner?



The red cooler is quite a bit smaller in height plus it only has the 2" neoprene collars for plant sites, i wanted to move the clones into net cups so they could easily be transferred to the bigger totes when they were ready.

If i had left them in the cloner, i wouldnt have gotten them back out of the holes without damaging roots


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## icetech (Jan 22, 2020)

Just read through this whole thread, LPA looks fun but i don't think i'll ever switch.. i'm too cheap to start again  BUT... i am definitely making a aerocloner.. i suck bad at cloning and those roots look amazing.


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## diggs99 (Jan 22, 2020)

icetech said:


> Just read through this whole thread, LPA looks fun but i don't think i'll ever switch.. i'm too cheap to start again  BUT... i am definitely making a aerocloner.. i suck bad at cloning and those roots look amazing.


Ya man, you wont be disappointed, they are fairly cheap to build too.

cheap misters from amazon
cheap pump from amazon
piece of pvc and couple fittings
cheap tote/cooler/bucker 
Neoprene collars.

Thats everything i used.


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## Keesje (Jan 23, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> The red cooler is quite a bit smaller in height plus it only has the 2" neoprene collars for plant sites, i wanted to move the clones into net cups so they could easily be transferred to the bigger totes when they were ready.
> 
> If i had left them in the cloner, i wouldnt have gotten them back out of the holes without damaging roots


Do you use a different hydro system in your blue tote?
If not, why don't you use the blue tote also as a cloner.
No need to transplant then.


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## diggs99 (Jan 23, 2020)

Keesje said:


> Do you use a different hydro system in your blue tote?
> If not, why don't you use the blue tote also as a cloner.
> No need to transplant then.


Couple different reasons

the blue cooler holds 3” net cups which is also what the big totes will have, so it will be easy to move when they are ready and won’t have to worry about roots being too big for the 2”hole in the red cloner. Also Won’t be much shock involved as they will already be in the 3” net cups , just need to switch over to the tote, rather than having to move huge roots from a 2” neoprene

also the blue cooler is quite a bit taller, so it’s allowed me to keep the roots suspended out of the water a bit longer, they would already be soaking in water in the red cooler.

the red cloner was built many months ago, long before I ever considered aero for growing. The blue cooler is a newer build.


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## diggs99 (Jan 23, 2020)

well i did the first test run, had one small leak where i forgot to use tape, easy fix.

Bad news, my new pump isnt big enough, need to buy a new one asap. I shoulda known by how cheap it was and it being from vivosun. Lesson learned



Any of you have good pump recommendations? i want something powerful. Might run to Canadian tire in the morning, just to see what they have in stock.

@Renfro 
@Axion42 
@Airwalker16 
@dstroy 

at anyone who wants to help lol


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## Axion42 (Jan 23, 2020)

I built a new waterfall system for a stealth grow, 2 site + reservoir and bought the EcoPlus 396 again, it leaked from the housing so I returned it and I'm trying the EcoPlus magdrive 350, havent set it up yet as I'm still insulating my buckets, this weekend I should have it going but it doesnt have the detachable housing like the other Eco pumps so I like that about it.


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## diggs99 (Jan 23, 2020)

These are the 2 ive found so far. Reviews seem decent for both, another grower mentioned the ecoplus to me, so might be worth a shot.





__





EcoPlus Eco 1584 Fixed Flow Submersible/Inline Pump 1638 GPH : Amazon.ca: Patio, Lawn & Garden


EcoPlus Eco 1584 Fixed Flow Submersible/Inline Pump 1638 GPH : Amazon.ca: Patio, Lawn & Garden



www.amazon.ca










ZOIC Water Submersible Aquarium Pump 110 Volts, 16 Foot Power Cord, Fish Tanks,Garden Pool Fountain Pumps (80W //2641 GPH) : Amazon.ca: Patio, Lawn & Garden


ZOIC Water Submersible Aquarium Pump 110 Volts, 16 Foot Power Cord, Fish Tanks,Garden Pool Fountain Pumps (80W //2641 GPH) : Amazon.ca: Patio, Lawn & Garden



www.amazon.ca


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## diggs99 (Jan 23, 2020)

I think i might try the zoic, reviews sound good and i like the 80w power consumption compared to the 245w of the ecoplus....altho maybe that should be telling me something? more juice usually equals more power lol

ffs i gotta stop getting high and doing amazon lol


----------



## Axion42 (Jan 23, 2020)

Lol tell me about it, my wife does all the store shopping and I do the Amazon purchases. For my big rdwc I use the ecoplus 596 and havent had any problems with it, must have received a defect on my last purchase.


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## 2com (Jan 23, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> well i did the first test run, had one small leak where i forgot to use tape, easy fix.
> 
> Bad news, my new pump isnt big enough, need to buy a new one asap. I shoulda known by how cheap it was and it being from vivosun. Lesson learned
> 
> ...


This is a pump for a "low pressure aero" setup right? Would one of those RV style pumps work? They'd maybe be _too much_ pressure? My recommendation would be a DC water pump (like Jebao, for eg.) for any hydro stuff like rdwc. But, I don't know about for this LPA application because usually the DC water pumps have a "slow start" feature where they ramp up to speed when powered on (instead of instantly), and that would probably cause your emitters to trickle first, then spray as the pump reaches full speed (10-15sec or so).

-They run way less wattage. And also heat up the system's water much less (hence rdwc).
-They have controllers; choose speed setting, pause function, etc.
-They do come in pretty high GPH ratings with good max Head numbers from what I remember.

Link to some DC pumps: https://www.reefsupplies.ca/online-store/DC-Pumps/
Maybe just one of these: LINK

Edit: That 'superior pump' also comes in less powerful models on amazon.


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## diggs99 (Jan 23, 2020)

I ordered one of each....i figure no harm in having a second pump around anyway, just in case of failure. Cant lose crops cause of a pump....hopefully one of them will be decent lol

atleast thats my stoner logic for the day

Wifey isnt gonna be impressed but also wont be surprised hahahaha


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 23, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> Lol tell me about it, my wife does all the store shopping and I do the Amazon purchases. For my big rdwc I use the ecoplus 596 and havent had any problems with it, must have received a defect on my last purchase.


Amazon is just too easy bro lol

My UPS that you suggested just got here a few days ago too, anything i should know before hooking that up?


----------



## Axion42 (Jan 23, 2020)

Nope, usually only one side of the plugs uses the battery backup, it should be labeled either way, mine is.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 23, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> Nope, usually only one side of the plugs uses the battery backup, it should be labeled either way, mine is.


ok cool i got the exact same one that you have, so should be the same.

So your timer is always plugged into the UPS?


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## Axion42 (Jan 23, 2020)

I dont use a timer for my pump, I run rdwc so my pump is 24/7, but yes my pump is on the battery. I try to only use the battery for the pump, mostly everything else is on the non battery plugs. If i lose power I can do without lights or fans for a bit, but the pump is vital in my setup.


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## diggs99 (Jan 23, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> I dont use a timer for my pump, I run rdwc so my pump is 24/7, but yes my pump is on the battery. I try to only use the battery for the pump, mostly everything else is on the non battery plugs. If i lose power I can do without lights or fans for a bit, but the pump is vital in my setup.


ya that’s my only priority as well. Keep the pump and timer running


----------



## Axion42 (Jan 23, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> ya that’s my only priority as well. Keep the pump and timer running


Do you have many outages where you're at? I usually don't, in the summer sometimes we get blackouts, I live in southern cali, super hot in summer and people overloading the grid with their ACs will kill power sometimes, only for an hour or 2 but that's along time for a rdwc setup.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 23, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> Do you have many outages where you're at? I usually don't, in the summer sometimes we get blackouts, I live in southern cali, super hot in summer and people overloading the grid with their ACs will kill power sometimes, only for an hour or 2 but that's along time for a rdwc setup.


nah we will have an outage every once in a while. Not frequent by any means.

I like the idea of having the backup tho, even if a breaker trips or some shit, at least it buys me some time to catch it.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 24, 2020)

Day 5 in the veg box, day 16 since i took the cuts.


The twist hasnt gotten any worse, roots look decent, They are stretching a little, so ill prob drop the t5s down a bit to slow that down.. As mentioned above, the pump i have is too small for the big system, so i ordered 2 new pumps, otherwise its ready to go.


----------



## icetech (Jan 24, 2020)

Just curious, how much better have you guys found doing aero for cloning over just rapid rooters or other methods? Just hate to spend money i don't have to  
BTW.. i never need more than 2 clones.. so i do 4 for safety, I saw a 8 pot setup on amazon for like $45.. just get that or cheaper to just build a small setup? thanks guys.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 24, 2020)

icetech said:


> Just curious, how much better have you guys found doing aero for cloning over just rapid rooters or other methods? Just hate to spend money i don't have to
> BTW.. i never need more than 2 clones.. so i do 4 for safety, I saw a 8 pot setup on amazon for like $45.. just get that or cheaper to just build a small setup? thanks guys.


I won’t say it’s better than rapid rooters, that method has been working forever and a day.

I will say it works lol and it’s easy.

As for building it, what do you have around the house/shed that can be used? Do you happen to have a cheap pump on hand?

$45 is pretty cheap for a ready made cloner, so unless you got some stuff around the house you can use,prob just as well off to buy the pre made one.


----------



## icetech (Jan 24, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> I won’t say it’s better than rapid rooters, that method has been working forever and a day.
> 
> I will say it works lol and it’s easy.
> 
> ...


 Thanks.. ran into this video 



And i think i might try that.. i like that there is no manifold and the whole thing is like $30.


----------



## 2com (Jan 24, 2020)

icetech said:


> Just curious, how much better have you guys found doing aero for cloning over just rapid rooters or other methods? Just hate to spend money i don't have to
> BTW.. i never need more than 2 clones.. so i do 4 for safety, I saw a 8 pot setup on amazon for like $45.. just get that or cheaper to just build a small setup? thanks guys.


I almost replied a page back or so when you first noted the cloner. Rapid rooters with roots poking out in 7-8 days is possible. So I'd say no better really. It depends on the user. But also, depending what you're transitioning them to after.


----------



## Airwalker16 (Jan 24, 2020)

icetech said:


> Thanks.. ran into this video
> 
> 
> 
> And i think i might try that.. i like that there is no manifold and the whole thing is like $30.


I'd buy the cloner for $15 more..


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## diggs99 (Jan 24, 2020)

Airwalker16 said:


> I'd buy the cloner for $15 more..


yep agreed, for the sake of $15 id buy the pre made.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 24, 2020)

2com said:


> I almost replied a page back or so when you first noted the cloner. Rapid rooters with roots poking out in 7-8 days is possible. So I'd say no better really. It depends on the user. But also, *depending what you're transitioning them to after*.


also a very good point thats often overlooked


----------



## icetech (Jan 24, 2020)

2com said:


> I almost replied a page back or so when you first noted the cloner. Rapid rooters with roots poking out in 7-8 days is possible. So I'd say no better really. It depends on the user. But also, depending what you're transitioning them to after.


DWC and coco.. i know in dwc to keep the RR well above the waterline so it doens't cause stalk rot.. at least from what i read.

P.S. thanks guys


----------



## icetech (Jan 24, 2020)

BTW... and sorry diggs, not trying to hijack. but since we are all here  One thing i dont' get about aero is i see guys running like 30min on/off or other long times.. wouldn't like 1 min on 15 off do the same thing? inside the bucket is like 99% humidity and i doubt roots would get near dry even in 3 hours let alone 15 mins.. why the long spray time?


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 24, 2020)

icetech said:


> BTW... and sorry diggs, not trying to hijack. but since we are all here  One thing i dont' get about aero is i see guys running like 30min on/off or other long times.. wouldn't like 1 min on 15 off do the same thing? inside the bucket is like 99% humidity and i doubt roots would get near dry even in 3 hours let alone 15 mins.. why the long spray time?


No worries on hijcking anything bud, were all here to share info and learn from eachother. 

I think you have a good question, im not sure of the answer but we have alot of very smart growers taking part in this thread, so hopefully one of them an answer for us.


----------



## 2com (Jan 24, 2020)

icetech said:


> DWC and coco.. i know in dwc to keep the RR well above the waterline so it doens't cause stalk rot.. at least from what i read.
> 
> P.S. thanks guys


These "hydro" (no medium) style cloners are great for transition into r/dwc (obviously  ) and coco. With coco you fill the pot/solo cup some, then hold the root mass at the top of the coco, and fill/dump in around it, basically.

And yea, definitely leave a space between the plug (if any, if not, then the stem) and the waterline, even between the plug/stem and the bottom of the netpot lid. The roots above water generally are/become "air roots".


icetech said:


> BTW... and sorry diggs, not trying to hijack. but since we are all here  One thing i dont' get about aero is i see guys running like 30min on/off or other long times.. wouldn't like 1 min on 15 off do the same thing? inside the bucket is like 99% humidity and i doubt roots would get near dry even in 3 hours let alone 15 mins.. why the long spray time?


I think it's really about temps (or energy usage if that would be a concern to someone). If running pump 24/7 doesn't cause temps to get too high, you'd probably never think twice about anything. I think the intervals became a method for controlling the temps of the water/tote/etc. Different durations of on/off will result in different max temps, and once you got it dialed in (consistent temp with little variation of heating and cooling) that's probably the on/off interval you'd stay at.

Just my thoughts on it.
I've even _heard_ that the water droplets running down the cuttings stems stimulate root growth but I haven't read anything scientific in that regard. Interesting that's all.
edit: Maybe an "ideal" level of moisture on the actual stem is beneficial to "drawing out" the roots, and so having an off time dialed in to dry them out _just_ enough helps with that. Not sure, just thinking out loud.


----------



## icetech (Jan 24, 2020)

Ahh... i hadn't considered temps.. thanks


----------



## Airwalker16 (Jan 24, 2020)

I see the 8 site closer on Amazon. It's just a bucket. If you're going to buy one, at least make sure your money goes to something that resembles a clone king or some other injection mold. If you're gonna buy one made from a 3.5g bucket, just make your own using a 5gal.


----------



## icetech (Jan 25, 2020)

Airwalker16 said:


> I see the 8 site closer on Amazon. It's just a bucket. If you're going to buy one, at least make sure your money goes to something that resembles a clone king or some other injection mold. If you're gonna buy one made from a 3.5g bucket, just make your own using a 5gal.








Amazon.com : 8 Site Aeroponic Plant Cloner - Clone Bucket 8 Black Edition From Hydro West : Plant Germination Kits : Garden & Outdoor


Amazon.com : 8 Site Aeroponic Plant Cloner - Clone Bucket 8 Black Edition From Hydro West : Plant Germination Kits : Garden & Outdoor



www.amazon.com





That's the one i was looking at and for clones why would i need a 5 gallon? And what is wrong with buckets? seems for the purpose they would be perfect?

Not arguing, am actually curious.. looked at the cloneking and it seems to be a square bucket...


----------



## Airwalker16 (Jan 25, 2020)

icetech said:


> Amazon.com : 8 Site Aeroponic Plant Cloner - Clone Bucket 8 Black Edition From Hydro West : Plant Germination Kits : Garden & Outdoor
> 
> 
> Amazon.com : 8 Site Aeroponic Plant Cloner - Clone Bucket 8 Black Edition From Hydro West : Plant Germination Kits : Garden & Outdoor
> ...


Just saying, you might as well build it yourself.


----------



## Airwalker16 (Jan 25, 2020)

And I just read on the listing it's only a 2gal bucket.


----------



## icetech (Jan 25, 2020)

Airwalker16 said:


> Just saying, you might as well build it yourself.


 I am probably going to just build my own honestly.. i was just looking, i don't get what makes a clone king better than a bucket though? a pump and wet roots... pretty much the same?


----------



## Airwalker16 (Jan 25, 2020)

icetech said:


> I am probably going to just build my own honestly.. i was just looking, i don't get what makes a clone king better than a bucket though? a pump and wet roots... pretty much the same?


The fact that you were going to spend $45. That's all. I would say buy somethin like the klone king if you were gonna spend the money.


----------



## Airwalker16 (Jan 25, 2020)

Here's my LPA setup. Thought I'd share. This is just after I pulled the roots back away from the drains.


----------



## icetech (Jan 25, 2020)

Airwalker16 said:


> The fact that you were going to spend $45. That's all. I would say buy somethin like the klone king if you were gonna spend the money.


cool, thanks was just making sure i wasn't missing something


----------



## myke (Jan 26, 2020)

Having a taller tote will allow you to veg in the same tote.Just use bigger holes so they can be removed.I pull the plant down and out rather then roots going up.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 28, 2020)

Ok guys/gals...today is the day ive been waiting for. Moving day for the girls. Big system is ready.


Before i put the plants in there tho, i was thinking of ripping a bunch more sterilized water through the system using some shock.

Was wondering how much shock to put in 5/10g of water just to flush the system of any shit thats accumulated during the build etc...

@Renfro i expect this would be up your alley?


----------



## Couch_Lock (Jan 28, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Ya from what i have gathered in the researching ive done, spraying will be determined by root mass, so as they get bigger the times may have to be adjusted accordingly, Yes i wanted the totes to be as tall as possible, try to keep the roots hanging in air as long as i can. Its inevitable that they will reach the bottom and begin piling up at some point tho, i would assume.
> 
> This is all still extremely new to me, im learning as i go and i expect this first run to be somewhat of a gong show, but i can guarantee you this, ill make it entertaining lol


Makes sense. The larger totes and adjusting sprayer on/off as root mass increases. Interesting. If we go legal ((finally) this year aeroponics just makes too much sense NOT to try this.


----------



## weed-whacker (Jan 28, 2020)

ASSOG said:


> Hey what's up diggs99. Glad to see someone trying LPA. I have been growing with LPA for the last six years and will never go back to anything else. As per my user name ASSOG. AreoSystemSeaOfGreen. I grow in the sea of green. When I first started i tried every tub or toot (whatever) out there. Except the black and yellow ones from H.D. And they all leaked. I tried everything and nothing would stop it. So i finally tried the black and yellow ones and they worked great. No leaks. But I painted the outside of the lid white. As for how tall, it doesn't matter. No matter what the roots are going to go to the bottom. You just have to make sure the roots don't block your drain hole, cause they will . Now for your net pots. I use 3 inch net pots with 3 inch neosprene incerts. Everything else will get meldew and mold or leak. With your manifold use 1/2 inch and set it about 3-4 inches from the bottom. This helps with leaks and it still covers the roots good. I use only 9 sprayers. You have to remember this is LPA not HPA. our droplet size is to big, so less is better. So this brings up pump run times. I started with 1 minute on every 5 minutes. I am now at 20 seconds on every hour. Remember this is LPA. less is better. What happens with longer run times is due to the droplet size being so big the weight of the solution ( droplets) weights down all the little root hairs into one big glob. Which im sure you know is not good. Also like some people were saying res. and solution temps. are very important. You can get away with 70 but 65 is better. Just make sure you use hydrogaurd or something. In 6 years i have never had root rot ( knock on wood). I'll tell you something this is the easiest and fastest way to grow. And once you get everything tuned in yeild is comparable with every other way you can grow ( per s/ ft) if not better ( per s/ ft). This is how i set mine up. Each areo has 23 grow sites,two areos 46 grow sites in a 3x3 area under one light. With one res. You may want to cut your four areos to one res. down, do to how many different strains you want to grow. Cause you know that they all won't finish at the same time. And it's a big pain in the butt, if you want to flush. Like i stated i grow in the SOG. I take 46 clones, in 5-7 days i have roots. In areo cloners. I wait 17 days then straight to 12/12. No veg. Depending on the strain I'm pulling anywhere from 17 gs to 35 gs per plant. Do the math, in 9 s/ ft that's pretty damn good. There's not to many people pulling that per s/ ft. Anyway sorry this took so long. And good luck. You won't be sorry for trying LPA. Later ASSOG...............



Hold the phone

So u are saying ur getting over 100g per sq foot?!?!?

(46x(17+35/2)= 1196/9= 132.8 grams per sq ft


Hate to call bullshit but...BULLSHIT


----------



## Keesje (Jan 28, 2020)

weed-whacker said:


> Hold the phone
> 
> So u are saying ur getting over 100g per sq foot?!?!?
> 
> ...


I am impressed that you could do the math. 
The whole post was kind of a mystery to me. 
Also with a lot of bro science in it. But it's a free world, so everybody has to believe what he wants.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 28, 2020)

Theres been alot of crazy numbers thrown around RIU lately lol.


Do anyone have any advice for making a viewing port on the end of each tote that i can open and close/ keep light out and water in etc.... I was thinking of just cutting 3 sides of a window/door and scoring the bottom part so i can flip it open, just not sure how to close it back up so it can do its job but also be reopened again. 

I guess i could use gorilla tape and just tape around the hole, it would be a pain when i wanted to open it tho, as that tape leaves a pile of residue.


@Renfro 
@Airwalker16 

you guys got any tricks up your sleeves that could remedy the situation?


----------



## Mak'er Grow (Jan 28, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Theres been alot of crazy numbers thrown around RIU lately lol.
> 
> 
> Do anyone have any advice for making a viewing port on the end of each tote that i can open and close/ keep light out and water in etc.... I was thinking of just cutting 3 sides of a window/door and scoring the bottom part so i can flip it open, just not sure how to close it back up so it can do its job but also be reopened again.
> ...


I made a 'cork' kinda thing for mine.
I cut a hole the size of my funnel out and glued it to same material, but a little larger of a piece...so the piece that was cut out goes back into the hole and the larger piece keeps it from falling in.
Hope that makes sense...lol

If its just to look inside on occasion try using a door peep hole thing...easy to cover with a piece of tape


----------



## myke (Jan 28, 2020)

When I switch my system around. I was going to cut about 4” of the tote lid on one end ,hinge it so I have an access hatch. But it may make the lid a little weak not sure. Was just gonna use duct tape for the hinge.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 28, 2020)

myke said:


> When I switch my system around. I was going to cut about 4” of the tote lid on one end ,hinge it so I have an access hatch. But it may make the lid a little weak not sure. Was just gonna use duct tape for the hinge.


Ya i tried this on an old lid and it def lost alot of rigidity .

Im gonna just drill a peep hole at the end so i can view the roots ocassionally, ill also prob drill out another 3" hole in the lid, above the drains, just in case i need to access it to remove roots.


----------



## myke (Jan 28, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Ya i tried this on an old lid and it def lost alot of rigidity .
> 
> Im gonna just drill a peep hole at the end so i can view the roots ocassionally, ill also prob drill out another 3" hole in the lid, above the drains, just in case i need to access it to remove roots.


So what i was going to do if it sagged like you said it does is just screw some plstic pipe as beams around the hole.On top i guess would be the best.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 28, 2020)

myke said:


> So what i was going to do if it sagged like you said it does is just screw some plstic pipe as beams around the hole.On top i guess would be the best.


Ya that could work . I seen one dude did something similar, only he also used the frame for a scrog net above each tote.

So the pvc acted as a support for the lid and the plants.


----------



## myke (Jan 28, 2020)

Pool noodle ,cut a slab and thats your plug.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 28, 2020)

myke said:


> Pool noodle ,cut a slab and thats your plug.


yep or a neoprene collar would work too. That’s what I’m gonna use to plug mine. mainly because I have a bunch here.

I’m only drilling a 3” hole tho.


----------



## myke (Jan 28, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Ya that could work . I seen one dude did something similar, only he also used the frame for a scrog net above each tote.
> 
> So the pvc acted as a support for the lid and the plants.


Worth a try,I know ill have to do something.Not being able to get in is not good.


----------



## Airwalker16 (Jan 28, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> yep or a neoprene collar would work too. That’s what I’m gonna use to plug mine. mainly because I have a bunch here.
> 
> I’m only drilling a 3” hole tho.


Neoprene collars are most generally 2" just fyi


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 28, 2020)

Airwalker16 said:


> Neoprene collars are most generally 2" just fyi


ya i had to search long and hard to find 3" collars, but i managed. glad i did. They fit perfectly in my 3" net cups.

2" are everywhere is seems lol


----------



## 2com (Jan 28, 2020)

You could use a PVC / ABS cleanout fitting, or a pressure test plug, or the rubber cap with band clamp style end cap/plug. All come in the size(s) you'd want.



Use a set of mpt and npt pvc fittings to give you a slip pipe opening to put one of the temp pressure test plugs in, remove it to inspect (for example).


----------



## Rheaun (Jan 28, 2020)

Have to say that about every thread I find on custom builds usually end up with roots choking out the system and you'll find a later post from OP on root rot.


----------



## Keesje (Jan 29, 2020)

Rheaun said:


> Have to say that about every thread I find on custom builds usually end up with roots choking out the system and you'll find a later post from OP on root rot.


I think root rot has nothing to do with a DIY-build.
Plants get sick, or they don't.
There are circumstances that can 'help' but plants growing in a custom build set up...? I hardly think that this can be one of the reasons.


----------



## Rheaun (Jan 29, 2020)

Keesje said:


> I think root rot has nothing to do with a DIY-build.
> Plants get sick, or they don't.
> There are circumstances that can 'help' but plants growing in a custom build set up...? I hardly think that this can be one of the reasons.


Facts show that the environment you provide for seeds with good genes ... just to mention that the builds work great until the roots 'choke' so consider it when building.


----------



## Keesje (Jan 29, 2020)

Rheaun said:


> Facts show that the environment you provide for seeds with good genes ...


Perhaps I misunderstood.
But what is the difference between a DIY-build and a plug&play set you buy in the shop?
(except the price and the fancy looks)
But I mean for the enviroment you provide?


----------



## 2com (Jan 29, 2020)

Keesje said:


> Perhaps I misunderstood.
> But what is the difference between a DIY-build and a plug&play set you buy in the shop?
> (except the price and the fancy looks)
> But I mean for the enviroment you provide?


The plug and play, fancy ones come with anti root-choke features.


----------



## Rheaun (Jan 29, 2020)

2com said:


> The plug and play, fancy ones come with anti root-choke features.


Right, and they're easily modifyable too. Ususally no two setups are exactly the same.


----------



## Keesje (Jan 29, 2020)

Rheaun said:


> Facts show that the environment you provide for seeds with good genes ... just to mention that the builds work great until the roots 'choke' so consider it when building.


You changed your post after I replied.
So again: Why would roots choke in a DIY build and not in a set up from a shop?


----------



## Keesje (Jan 29, 2020)

@Rheaun 
It doesn't make much sense to post a statement on a forum, and if someone asks for an explanation, repeat the same statement again. 
Most are here (at least me) to learn something or to become smarter. 
That is why I asked for an explanation. 
Which you refuse to give. 
The only thing you do is respond with a 'wow' like I'm the ignorant here. 

Explain to me please exactly where the difference lies. 
Maybe I totally agree with you after your explanation. 
And I am happy that I have become smarter again.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 29, 2020)

Keesje said:


> @Rheaun
> It doesn't make much sense to post a statement on a forum, and if someone asks for an explanation, repeat the same statement again.
> Most are here (at least me) to learn something or to become smarter.
> That is why I asked for an explanation.
> ...


Ya im not sure i see any difference in DIY or pre bought tbh.

Roots clog all systems if not attended to properly i would imagine. If anything i think most DIY systems are overall better than pre bought imo, take RDWC for example, most pre made systems are running much smaller return lines than 3" , like the DIY guys around here are using. I cant see how this wouldnt decrease the chances of root clog compared to its store bought premade with 1.5" returns.

As for my aero setup, i have no idea if its better, as good or worse than a pre made system, i know the coolers worked great. Im hoping the big tote systems works just as well.


----------



## Rheaun (Jan 29, 2020)

I agree with, just doing two things at once here and edited to add my comments confused us. I'm just saying mind that the plant will grow and need to finish off in your design.


----------



## Keesje (Jan 29, 2020)

If you mean that many people build a set up that is ultimately too small for the amount of roots or plants, then I agree. 
I also see that the design is sometimes not well thought out. 
The advantage of a DIY set up is that you can adjust it for little money (or throw it in the trash can and build a new one)
But I also see set ups from the store that have a lot wrong with it. And they are expensive...


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 29, 2020)

Moving day, finally

still gotta hookup the ups and also do a few things for anchor points for tie downs.


----------



## icetech (Jan 29, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Moving day, finally
> 
> still gotta hookup the ups and also do a few things for anchor points for tie downs.


 Jesus diggs.. those roots look better than a plant i have had in DWC for a month now... (i have more roots, but not near as robust) that's amazing...


----------



## Keesje (Jan 29, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Moving day, finally


If I'm correct, these pics are taken 21 or 22 days after you cut the clones, right?


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 29, 2020)

Keesje said:


> If I'm correct, these pics are taken 21 or 22 days after you cut the clones, right?


Yes that is correct, they were cut from the mom 21/22 days ago....i think its 22


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 29, 2020)

icetech said:


> Jesus diggs.. those roots look better than a plant i have had in DWC for a month now... (i have more roots, but not near as robust) that's amazing...


Thanks man, ya they seem to really like the aero


----------



## 2com (Jan 29, 2020)

Rheaun said:


> Right, and they're easily modifyable too. Ususally no two setups are exactly the same.


I was being sarcastic...
Is there a language barrier? (Only asking because of some of your other posts).


----------



## 2com (Jan 29, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Moving day, finally
> 
> still gotta hookup the ups and also do a few things for anchor points for tie downs.


What's that black 'device' on the ground in the last picture (on the right hand side)?


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 29, 2020)

Humidifier?


----------



## 2com (Jan 29, 2020)

That's what I was thinking... because I have humidity on the brain. Need humidity. Is that one any good? What is it?


----------



## icetech (Jan 29, 2020)

2com said:


> That's what I was thinking... because I have humidity on the brain. Need humidity. Is that one any good? What is it?


 Just a word of warning.. if you get one of those "Ultra-sonic" humidifiers it will killed our carbon filters quickly.. killed my first one in less than 2 weeks.. they put out this white powder that clogged it almost 100%.. Just a FYI, luckily i had found that info before i destroyed a second filter


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 29, 2020)

2com said:


> That's what I was thinking... because I have humidity on the brain. Need humidity. Is that one any good? What is it?


not its just a cheap one from walmart, i only use it for babies and early veg in the tent. it does the trick but far from good lol


----------



## 2com (Jan 29, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> not its just a cheap one from walmart, i only use it for babies and early veg in the tent. it does the trick but far from good lol


Good from afar then? Hah.


icetech said:


> Just a word of warning.. if you get one of those "Ultra-sonic" humidifiers it will killed our carbon filters quickly.. killed my first one in less than 2 weeks.. they put out this white powder that clogged it almost 100%.. Just a FYI, luckily i had found that info before i destroyed a second filter


That's a good tip. Yes, high humidity in general will shorten the lifespan of carbon filters.
That "white powder" is probably the minerals in your tap water. What's your tap ec/ppm? Ours is low enough this doesn't concern me too much.


----------



## Axion42 (Jan 29, 2020)

icetech said:


> Just a word of warning.. if you get one of those "Ultra-sonic" humidifiers it will killed our carbon filters quickly.. killed my first one in less than 2 weeks.. they put out this white powder that clogged it almost 100%.. Just a FYI, luckily i had found that info before i destroyed a second filter


I use a evaporative humidifer, works great and no calcium dust anywhere.


----------



## icetech (Jan 29, 2020)

2com said:


> Good from afar then? Hah.
> 
> That's a good tip. Yes, high humidity in general will shorten the lifespan of carbon filters.
> That "white powder" is probably the minerals in your tap water. What's your tap ec/ppm? Ours is low enough this doesn't concern me too much.


 My tap is 95-100ppm consistantly.. and yeah i should have mentioned that it only happens with tap water supposedly  but figured better he knew in case he uses tap before he trashes a filter.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 30, 2020)

fkn disaster struck some time this morning....the new pump stopped working. Fkn thing cost me $130 cdn, only got it yesterday lol....the 2nd pump i ordered isnt scheduled to be here for another 2 weeks yet 

I walked in the room to 8 awful looking clones. Wilting hard.

So i moved them back into the cooler for now. I might convert 2 of the big totes to the standard aero approach with the pump and manifold and water all in the tote. This way i can use my smaller pumps that i have here and know they work.

Could have been much worse as i was about to head out riding skidoo for the day, so i popped in the room to check on the bigger girls, to see if they needed water. They would have been all dead by this evening when i planned on getting home.

Skidoo fun is cancelled, more aero work to be done lol.

Im finishing this run in aero,come hell or high water. either they get to harvest or they die trying.


----------



## icetech (Jan 30, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> fkn disaster struck some time this morning....the new pump stopped working. Fkn thing cost me $130 cdn, only got it yesterday lol
> 
> I walked in the room to 8 awful looking clones. Wilting hard.
> 
> ...


 that sucks bout the pump.. good thing you had a spare cooler or that would have really been bad.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 30, 2020)

icetech said:


> that sucks bout the pump.. good thing you had a spare cooler or that would have really been bad.


Ya man i was pretty gutted, still am...but it is what it is, im all about finding solutions rather than dwelling on the bad shit lol

Its not a spare cooler, its the same cooler they just got moved from....they are back in there for the time being.


----------



## icetech (Jan 30, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Ya man i was pretty gutted, still am...but it is what it is, im all about finding solutions rather than dwelling on the bad shit lol
> 
> Its not a spare cooler, its the same cooler they just got moved from....they are back in there for the time being.


 Yeah.. just meant somewhere to put them  and i would rather have a pump die on day 1 than when out of warranty. glad they will be ok.


----------



## myke (Jan 30, 2020)

Pumps are serviceable easy enough,either something got stuck or the back pressure is to much to start up.Air bubble s also wont let the pump prime.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 30, 2020)

myke said:


> Pumps are serviceable easy enough,either something got stuck or the back pressure is to much to start up.Air bubble s also wont let the pump prime.


its like theres no power going to it....ive plugged it into every socket i got, wont turn on at all.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 30, 2020)

icetech said:


> Yeah.. just meant somewhere to put them  and i would rather have a pump die on day 1 than when out of warranty. glad they will be ok.


Oh ya for sure

i already contacted the company on amazon, we will see what they have to say.


----------



## myke (Jan 30, 2020)

Well maybe for warranty u dont want to open it up,but Ive always been able to fix mine.


----------



## myke (Jan 30, 2020)

Where i get my pumps they also sell the rebuild kits,grow store.So maybe get one of those for the future.


----------



## 2com (Jan 30, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> fkn disaster struck some time this morning....the new pump stopped working. Fkn thing cost me $130 cdn, only got it yesterday lol....the 2nd pump i ordered isnt scheduled to be here for another 2 weeks yet
> 
> I walked in the room to 8 awful looking clones. Wilting hard.
> 
> ...


Fuck, brutal man.
Can you tell us the brand, etc, if you don't mind?


diggs99 said:


> Oh ya for sure
> 
> i already contacted the company on amazon, we will see what they have to say.


You bought it from amazon and you haven't already just clicked "return", boxed it up and sent it?
Returns/exchanges are easy with amazon, slightly less so if third party seller.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 30, 2020)

2com said:


> Fuck, brutal man.
> Can you tell us the brand, etc, if you don't mind?
> 
> You bought it from amazon and you haven't already just clicked "return", boxed it up and sent it?
> Returns/exchanges are easy with amazon, slightly less so if third party seller.


Zoic is the brand , the company is sending me out a new one today, thats why i contacted them first, im gonna send the old one back.


----------



## 2com (Jan 30, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> the company is sending me out a new one today, thats why i contacted them first


Oh I see, yea that makes sense. Fair enough.


----------



## diggs99 (Jan 30, 2020)

2com said:


> Oh I see, yea that makes sense. Fair enough.


Ya altho now im thinking i shoulda just got my money back and told them i didnt want it lol

Hopefully the replacement is better


----------



## icetech (Jan 30, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Ya altho now im thinking i shoulda just got my money back and told them i didnt want it lol
> 
> Hopefully the replacement is better


 If you ever get any crap items from amazon make sure to leave a bad review.. i almost always get a refund or instant replacement doing that.. sometimes both.


----------



## myke (Jan 30, 2020)

I’ve always had luck with the Ecoplus mag drive. Easily serviceable. Reliable


----------



## Axion42 (Jan 30, 2020)

myke said:


> I’ve always had luck with the Ecoplus mag drive. Easily serviceable. Reliable


Good to know I just bought one of these for my new grow...the 350gph


----------



## myke (Jan 30, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> Good to know I just bought one of these for my new grow...the 350gph


Ya after ea run I take apart and clean the calcium buildup on the drive. Watch out theirs a small washer on ea end easy to lose.


----------



## Axion42 (Jan 30, 2020)

myke said:


> Ya after ea run I take apart and clean the calcium buildup on the drive. Watch out theirs a small washer on ea end easy to lose.


What size do you use? The 350 seems to have a slight rattle sound within, the first one I had some threads that were broken on the output side that I returned, it also had a slight rattle sound.


----------



## myke (Jan 30, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> What size do you use? The 350 seems to have a slight rattle sound within, the first one I had some threads that were broken on the output side that I returned, it also had a slight rattle sound.


I get a rattle sound when I lift it out of the water. I use a garden hose chunk on the end so I can vacuum the crud out. It’s quite when under water. I assume some turbulence is causing air to get in?if not check when u take it apart how much end play u have. Maybe it’s the mag slapping the sides? Not sure.oh and I have a 250 and a 350. Also a 700 to do res changes.


----------



## Axion42 (Jan 30, 2020)

myke said:


> I get a rattle sound when I lift it out of the water. I use a garden hose chunk on the end so I can vacuum the crud out. It’s quite when under water. I assume some turbulence is causing air to get in?if not check when u take it apart how much end play u have. Maybe it’s the mag slapping the sides? Not sure.oh and I have a 250 and a 350. Also a 700 to do res changes.


I use mine inline, its attached to the bottom of my res bucket. Slight rattle but its working good, going to get another one to have on hand incase of failure as I'm running a RDWC waterfall setup.


----------



## myke (Jan 30, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> I use mine inline, its attached to the bottom of my res bucket. Slight rattle but its working good, going to get another one to have on hand incase of failure as I'm running a RDWC waterfall setup.


Could be the load or the pressure on the intake side.See if its quieter next res change when the level is real low.


----------



## Axion42 (Jan 30, 2020)

myke said:


> Could be the load or the pressure on the intake side.See if its quieter next res change when the level is real low.


Ya the sound does increase with higher water level


----------



## icetech (Jan 31, 2020)

So. i was starting to figure what parts to order for a DIY bucket aero (wish someone would just post a link to the sprinkler head.. but will find one) anyway.. then ran into people saying bubble cloners are better.. which would save me money since i have spare air pumps and stones already.. Has anyone used both? any opinions?


----------



## 2com (Jan 31, 2020)

icetech said:


> So. i was starting to figure what parts to order for a DIY bucket aero (wish someone would just post a link to the sprinkler head.. but will find one) anyway.. then ran into people saying bubble cloners are better.. which would save me money since i have spare air pumps and stones already.. Has anyone used both? any opinions?


I kinda like the concept of the "aquaclone" style: It uses a water pump with a venturi. So with one small waterpump (that comes with a venturi fitting) you circulate the water while injecting it with oxygen (and bubbles that rise to the surface, pop, and "mist" the clones.
I like the simplicity, the low cost, extremely easy build, and no air pump (and air stone *required - though many add one for "extra"...), especially no little misters.
Might be up your alley. But if you already have air pumps and want to do the air pump method (which essentially works the same..) go for it.


----------



## myke (Jan 31, 2020)

I use a bubble cloner. What really matters is the strain and how healthy the mom is and what and how much you feed her.Take a healthy plant that doesn’t get fed much but is in good health the clone will root faster. compared to a mom that’s been fed more but still healthy just darker green those clones will take longer.


----------



## icetech (Jan 31, 2020)

myke said:


> I use a bubble cloner. What really matters is the strain and how healthy the mom is and what and how much you feed her.Take a healthy plant that doesn’t get fed much but is in good health the clone will root faster. compared to a mom that’s been fed more but still healthy just darker green those clones will take longer.


thanks.. yeah i have sucked at cloning.. maybe 35% success.. kind of excited to try something new.. since i have all the stuff for bubble i'm gonna try that first then i would jsut need to switch out the pump to try aero later


----------



## myke (Jan 31, 2020)

Ya try it if u got the stuff.Put the stem right at water level or a hair below when first planted.This will keep them hydrated so they'll stand tall.Play around its all good.


----------



## icetech (Jan 31, 2020)

myke said:


> Ya try it if u got the stuff.Put the stem right at water level or a hair below when first planted.This will keep them hydrated so they'll stand tall.Play around its all good.


 Yeah.. just wish i had a third tent.... trying to stay small, this shit can get out of control.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 3, 2020)

Haha the fun continues....im almost ready to start taking pics again lol


I Got some leaking around the tote lids ( using the blue lid hdx totes)

What are you guys doing to fix leaks around the lids? i tried weatherstrip but i think what i had was too big and bulky as it prevents me from actually closing the lid.

@Airwalker16 
@Renfro 
@myke 
@Axion42 
@2com 

@anyone with ideas


----------



## Axion42 (Feb 3, 2020)

Maybe try a thinner seal so the lid can actually shut? The only aero setup I use is the one I sent you a picture of the other day, the 2 gallon bucket lid has its own seal.


----------



## Cannademik (Feb 3, 2020)

I ordered these for my aerocloner, check it out! Frost King Vinyl Foam Tape -... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQRQA0?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 3, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> Maybe try a thinner seal so the lid can actually shut? The only aero setup I use is the one I sent you a picture of the other day, the 2 gallon bucket lid has its own seal.


ya I’m gonna try and find some smaller stuff. I tried trimming down what I have and it was a total clusterfk lol



Cannademik said:


> I ordered these for my aerocloner, check it out! Frost King Vinyl Foam Tape -... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQRQA0?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share


oh cool, that stuff might be good to order for next time around. I need a quick solution now and ordering from amazon would take at least a week or more to get to me lol


----------



## Renfro (Feb 3, 2020)

Whats leaking around the lids thats causing an issue? Or am I missing something?


----------



## Renfro (Feb 3, 2020)

Oh wait, NM forgot you were doing aero.


----------



## myke (Feb 3, 2020)

Its the design of the tote,somewhere on this forum I read what tote has a leak proof lid.Where that is IDK.For a quick fix weights to push down the foam gasket may work.Or maybe some sort of drip rail on the lid,find out why or where and try to block or redirect its path if that makes any sense.


----------



## Axion42 (Feb 3, 2020)

Cannademik said:


> I ordered these for my aerocloner, check it out! Frost King Vinyl Foam Tape -... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQRQA0?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share


Ya 1/8" thick is probabaly what you'll need diggs for the lid to snap shut.


----------



## myke (Feb 3, 2020)

A simple drip rail under the lid in the right spot should help. I just took a piece of duct tape to show u what I mean


----------



## Airwalker16 (Feb 3, 2020)

Try a thin bead of hot glue. Guarantee that does the trick.


----------



## 2com (Feb 3, 2020)

If that doesn't work, try RDWC.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 3, 2020)

2com said:


> If that doesn't work, try RDWC.


really? 

you think i should revamp the entire project cause the lids leak? ya ummmmm NO

were way past this, ill probably try rdwc after this, but this run will finish in aero or die trying.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 3, 2020)

Thanks for the help guys.


----------



## 2com (Feb 3, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> really?
> 
> you think i should revamp the entire project cause the lids leak? ya ummmmm NO
> 
> were way past this, ill probably try rdwc after this, but this run will finish in aero or die trying.


No, I don't. Was joking.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 3, 2020)

2com said:


> No, I don't. Was joking.



lol


----------



## Airwalker16 (Feb 3, 2020)

Airwalker16 said:


> Try a thin bead of hot glue. Guarantee that does the trick.


This end up being what you did?


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 3, 2020)

Airwalker16 said:


> This end up being what you did?


Yes, thanks for the idea bud, i havent tested yet, i can see it working tho, it forces me to press real hard on the lid to close it.


----------



## Airwalker16 (Feb 3, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Yes, thanks for the idea bud, i havent tested yet, i can see it working tho, it forces me to press real hard on the lid to close it.


You'd wanna just get your gun hot hot and run a bead down as fast as you can, then throw that lid on quick so it forms nicely, then pull it back off fast so it doesn't stick. But the glue gets to a certain consistency after a few seconds where it presses down but is no longer way adhesive anymore. That's when you do it.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 3, 2020)

Airwalker16 said:


> You'd wanna just get your gun hot hot and run a bead down as fast as you can, then throw that lid on quick so it forms nicely, then pull it back off fast so it doesn't stick. But the glue gets to a certain consistency after a few seconds where it presses down but is no longer way adhesive anymore. That's when you do it.


Makes sense. i never did it that way, so we will see if it works, if it dont, ill redo if like you just explained.

Got me thinking, maybe a small bead of silicone would also do the trick?


----------



## Axion42 (Feb 3, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Makes sense. i never did it that way, so we will see if it works, if it dont, ill redo if like you just explained.
> 
> Got me thinking, maybe a small bead of silicone would also do the trick?


Not sure if silicone would stick very well to the totes, think I read that somewhere here by someone.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 3, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> Not sure if silicone would stick very well to the totes, think I read that somewhere here by someone.


ya true enough


----------



## myke (Feb 3, 2020)

Airwalker16 said:


> This end up being what you did?





Axion42 said:


> Not sure if silicone would stick very well to the totes, think I read that somewhere here by someone.


if u sand it first then youll get a mechanical bond,also a polyurethane product sticks better then silicone.


----------



## Cannademik (Feb 3, 2020)

Are you ditching coco for hydro? I was thinking about doing that too. So much coco wasted and I don't want to deal with cleaning the coco and storing it in large bins. I feel like if I went hydro I would save more water too.


----------



## Airwalker16 (Feb 3, 2020)

Cannademik said:


> Are you ditching coco for hydro? I was thinking about doing that too. So much coco wasted and I don't want to deal with cleaning the coco and storing it in large bins. I feel like if I went hydro I would save more water too.


Nothing better than using the water you're gonna use to water your plants with anyways, as the medium itself!!


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 4, 2020)

Cannademik said:


> Are you ditching coco for hydro? I was thinking about doing that too. So much coco wasted and I don't want to deal with cleaning the coco and storing it in large bins. I feel like if I went hydro I would save more water too.


Not really ditching coco as i still have plants in coco and will continue this way. I love coco

Im just out here trying new stuff , see what i like and what i dont. For instance, were having a fkn 8-12 hour scheduled power outage tomorrow for maintenance apparently, so tomorrow should be a fun day, baby sitting plants in the dark, making sure the pumps stay running. The coco girls will be fine, the aero girls are gonna require some TLC. This part, i DONT like about hydro. hopefully the outage wont last the full 8-12 hours.


----------



## Axion42 (Feb 4, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Not really ditching coco as i still have plants in coco and will continue this way. I love coco
> 
> Im just out here trying new stuff , see what i like and what i dont. For instance, were having a fkn 8-12 hour scheduled power outage tomorrow for maintenance apparently, so tomorrow should be a fun day, baby sitting plants in the dark, making sure the pumps stay running. The coco girls will be fine, the aero girls are gonna require some TLC. This part, i DONT like about hydro. hopefully the outage wont last the full 8-12 hours.


Lemme know how long your UPS stays up on the aero pumps during that time.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 4, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> Lemme know how long your UPS stays up on the aero pumps during that time.


Ya i will for sure bud, im gonna try and get that setup today, its still in the box. lol

Is there anything i need to know when hooking it up?


----------



## Axion42 (Feb 4, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Ya i will for sure bud, im gonna try and get that setup today, its still in the box. lol
> 
> Is there anything i need to know when hooking it up?


Ya it needs to charge for 24hours I think lol


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 4, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> Ya it needs to charge for 24hours I think lol


omg hahahahaha

well fk, guess ill go plug it in now lol


----------



## Axion42 (Feb 4, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> omg hahahahaha
> 
> well fk, guess ill go plug it in now lol


It may be charged to some degree already, poke around in the instructions and see if it says anything about precharging it, hopefully it lasts as long as you need it to. At least you get noticed about outages, sometimes we get blackouts in summer without warning.


----------



## myke (Feb 4, 2020)

At least they give ya a heads up,no generator?Or a 12v to 110 converter?


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 4, 2020)

myke said:


> At least they give ya a heads up,no generator?Or a 12v to 110 converter?


Ya i have 2 generators that operate my wood stove,fridges,lights and cooking but my room is hidden away very well and its very difficult to run cords from where the generators are located. Thats why i went with the UPS backups.

Now if it gets too bad, ill just have to buy another generator soley to support the room and run some outlets out through my exterior wall in my room for easier access. 




Axion42 said:


> It may be charged to some degree already, poke around in the instructions and see if it says anything about precharging it, hopefully it lasts as long as you need it to. At least you get noticed about outages, sometimes we get blackouts in summer without warning.


Ya mine can be used asap but its suggested i charge it for 8 hours to fully charge the battery before use. So i got it plugged in now lol. Thanks for the heads up, knowing me, i woulda waited till the power went to see if it worked haha


----------



## icetech (Feb 4, 2020)

Cannademik said:


> Are you ditching coco for hydro? I was thinking about doing that too. So much coco wasted and I don't want to deal with cleaning the coco and storing it in large bins. I feel like if I went hydro I would save more water too.


 I run 2 coco and 2 DWC myself... the coco is WAY more forgiving honestly.. and not much slower, BUt i hate dealing with coco when the grow is done.. and all that.. I would like 1 more tent with 2 more DWC buckets.. but too cheap


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 5, 2020)

Airwalker16 said:


> You'd wanna just get your gun hot hot and run a bead down as fast as you can, then throw that lid on quick so it forms nicely, then pull it back off fast so it doesn't stick. But the glue gets to a certain consistency after a few seconds where it presses down but is no longer way adhesive anymore. That's when you do it.


Ya the way i did it, didnt work so well. Gonna try your way now lol

How do you get the entire tote rim done in one shot before it all dries too hard?


----------



## 2com (Feb 5, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Ya the way i did it, didnt work so well. Gonna try your way now lol
> 
> How do you get the entire tote rim done in one shot before it all dries too hard?


Just in case you're still lookin for suggestions, RTV sealant (used for making gaskets). There's a few "types" (high temp, etc etc), you'd have to look if curious. Duno if it'd stick to the plastic that well either, never tried it for that use. Maybe not much different than silicone really. I duno man, good luck


----------



## icetech (Feb 5, 2020)

If you are worried about anything sticking to it.. get permatex black plastic weld.. the shit is insanely good, i use it for repairing hinge anchors in laptops and it never fails... could use it to actually mount some type of drip rail if you wanted even..


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 5, 2020)

2com said:


> Just in case you're still lookin for suggestions, RTV sealant (used for making gaskets). There's a few "types" (high temp, etc etc), you'd have to look if curious. Duno if it'd stick to the plastic that well either, never tried it for that use. Maybe not much different than silicone really. I duno man, good luck


Ya i was thinking this too, silicone or sealant of some kind. Someone suggested scuffing the plastic first to help bond. I think Airwalkers way will work, im just having a hard time getting the entire perimeter done before the first half is already hardened.

Ideally id like to use the glue gun or silicone as i have both here at home already. 




icetech said:


> If you are worried about anything sticking to it.. get permatex black plastic weld.. the shit is insanely good, i use it for repairing hinge anchors in laptops and it never fails... could use it to actually mount some type of drip rail if you wanted even..


Oh cool, never heard of this stuff. Is it flexible like silicone? If i cant get glue gun or silicone to work and have to go shopping, maybe ill look into this stuff.


----------



## Mak'er Grow (Feb 5, 2020)

If you want a silicone one...they easiest way I've found is use tape or seran wrap.
I put a couple holes around edge so silicone can go threw...not too big tho.
Lay down a bead around the edge and then put tape on it...sticky side down on silicone...or use seran wrap on top.
Put lid on tightly but not sealed yet...wait until its just starting to harden...then put on tight and then release.
It should smooth out evenly and slight trims may be needed...lol
Let it finish drying and the tape or seran wrap should peal off fairly easy.
And anything that comes through holes can be smoothed out a little to help in holding the bead on.


----------



## icetech (Feb 5, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Ya i was thinking this too, silicone or sealant of some kind. Someone suggested scuffing the plastic first to help bond. I think Airwalkers way will work, im just having a hard time getting the entire perimeter done before the first half is already hardened.
> 
> Ideally id like to use the glue gun or silicone as i have both here at home already.
> 
> ...


 No it sets hard.. but it does not let go of plastic.. the stuff is awesome.


----------



## 2com (Feb 5, 2020)

Just trying to give you ideas: https://forum.grasscity.com/threads/leaking-aeroponic-buckets-fix.911553/
I wouldn't use duct tape on the inside, hah, nor would I ever use it in life. But maybe silicone or hot glue, etc., to hold the "skirt" in place?
I just thought about this too: are the sprayers too high off the bottom of the tote? Maybe direct spray is the problem, and it's hitting the seam/joint of the lid and tote. Maybe you could lower their height.


----------



## 2com (Feb 5, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Ya i was thinking this too, silicone or sealant of some kind. Someone suggested scuffing the plastic first to help bond. I think Airwalkers way will work, im just having a hard time getting the entire perimeter done before the first half is already hardened.
> 
> Ideally id like to use the glue gun or silicone as i have both here at home already.
> 
> ...







__





Leak proof totes as cloner


Was thinking of using a 12 gal tough tote from home Depot but remember the last time I tried to use a tote it leaked a lot. Wasn't this brand though.



rollitup.org





I saw some similar (rubberized weather strip meant for water) the other day at the depot, it was too thick but I didn't check for thinner stuff. The "D" profile stuff used here would be good because it has a hollow center and would collapse allowing you to (hopefully) close the lid. It'll keep yo' flo' muthafuckin' tizight, though.

- _Roca-Pads_


----------



## Airwalker16 (Feb 5, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Ya the way i did it, didnt work so well. Gonna try your way now lol
> 
> How do you get the entire tote rim done in one shot before it all dries too hard?


Do it in 1/4's or 1/2 if needed. But if you're guns heavy duty enough, you can do it in 1.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 6, 2020)

So i got everything sealed and ready to fire it up again....i found some weatherstrip and cut it down to fit.

Im using hydroguard and live res but was thinking that it might be a good idea to run some pool shock through the system for a few hours to sterilize everything before the plants go back in?

If i were to do this. how much Shock would i use per gallon? and how long after using the shock will it be ok to start using the hydroguard again?

or is it overkill, and the hydroguard will do its thing regardless?

@Airwalker16
@rkymtnman
@myke
@Axion42


----------



## Axion42 (Feb 6, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> So i got everything sealed and ready to fire it up again....i found some weatherstrip and cut it down to fit.
> 
> Im using hydroguard and live res but was thinking that it might be a good idea to run some pool shock through the system for a few hours to sterilize everything before the plants go back in?
> 
> ...


I don't think its overkill at all, I actually run bleach thru mine for a few days, drain refill then pool shock then plants, but I run sterile 100% of time. 

I've been told .1 gram of pool shock for every 10 gallons of water for 1 ppm of chlorine. I add .3g for 30 gallons in my system, I guess it's safe for plants up to 5ppm.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 6, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> I don't think its overkill at all, I actually run bleach thru mine for a few days, drain refill then pool shock then plants, but I run sterile 100% of time.
> 
> I've been told .1 gram of pool shock for every 10 gallons of water for 1 ppm of chlorine. I add .3g for 30 gallons in my system, I guess it's safe for plants up to 5ppm.


Any rough way of calculating a gram without sa good scale? like half tsp or some shit lol

i dont own a scale anymore.


----------



## Axion42 (Feb 6, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Any rough way of calculating a gram without sa good scale? like half tsp or some shit lol
> 
> i dont own a scale anymore.


Not sure but I can tell you a half tsp would be overdoing big time. It's seriously like 20-30 tiny granules of the hth pool shock I use, it barely looks like it'll do anything.


----------



## rkymtnman (Feb 6, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> Not sure but I can tell you a half tsp would be overdoing big time. It's seriously like 20-30 tiny granules of the hth pool shock I use, it barely looks like it'll do anything.


true. looks like just a couple of shakes of a salt shaker for what you need.


----------



## rkymtnman (Feb 6, 2020)

i thought that sanitizing you need 50ppm min of chlorine. might want to google that.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 6, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> Not sure but I can tell you a half tsp would be overdoing big time. It's seriously like 20-30 tiny granules of the hth pool shock I use, it barely looks like it'll do anything.



ok cool.

im gonna run some shock through everything, then empty and refill with the bennies.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 6, 2020)

rkymtnman said:


> i thought that sanitizing you need 50ppm min of chlorine. might want to google that.


oh wow really? ya ill have to do some googling on that lol

thanks bud


----------



## rkymtnman (Feb 6, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> ok cool.
> 
> im gonna run some shock through everything, then empty and refill with the bennies.


roughly how many gallons does your system hold?


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 6, 2020)

rkymtnman said:


> roughly how many gallons does your system hold?


40 gallons


----------



## rkymtnman (Feb 6, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> 40 gallons


maybe like a 1/4 tsp then. that's probably way too much but you wont' have plants in it.


----------



## Axion42 (Feb 6, 2020)

rkymtnman said:


> i thought that sanitizing you need 50ppm min of chlorine. might want to google that.


Oh true I actually lost track of his goal, he wont be running with plants so he could probabaly find a way to figure out 50ppm using tsp or some other other way of measuring.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 6, 2020)

rkymtnman said:


> maybe like a 1/4 tsp then. that's probably way too much but you wont' have plants in it.


ok cool, thanks

So once im done flushing everything and i empty that water and refill can i safely assume its ready for plants and bennies?

or is there a lingering effect from the shock?


----------



## rkymtnman (Feb 6, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> ok cool, thanks
> 
> So once im done flushing everything and i empty that water and refill can i safely assume its ready for plants and bennies?
> 
> or is there a lingering effect from the shock?


maybe do the fill/empty twice? i'm sure it will have a strong smell of chlorine. can you leave it exposed to air for a bit or do you need to put the plants in quickly? 

or just give a second dose of hydroguard in 2 or 3 days just to make sure.


----------



## myke (Feb 6, 2020)

Why even bother messing with the shock. Just flush it out and go. Their new totes.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 6, 2020)

myke said:


> Why even bother messing with the shock. Just flush it out and go. Their new totes.


Yes they are new, I was just concerned about dirt and shit that has accumulated in them , that the shop vac isn’t getting. There’s been a bit of work done on or around the totes this past couple weeks.


----------



## rkymtnman (Feb 6, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Yes they are new, I was just concerned about dirt and shit that has accumulated in them , that the shop vac isn’t getting. There’s been a bit of work done on or around the totes this past couple weeks.


i'm with @Axion42 . better safe than sorry. for not much effort.


----------



## fragileassassin (Feb 6, 2020)

rkymtnman said:


> maybe do the fill/empty twice? i'm sure it will have a strong smell of chlorine. can you leave it exposed to air for a bit or do you need to put the plants in quickly?
> 
> or just give a second dose of hydroguard in 2 or 3 days just to make sure.


I do this even for my peroxide flush. After the peroxide is done I drain it and shop vac out as much as I can then I fill and drain it with fresh water twice.
I usually do this process over a week or so and let it run for a couple days each fill.
If theres anything heavy sticking to the insides of the totes, I clean it with a spray bottle of 90% iso alcohol and paper towels before the first fresh water rinse.


----------



## 2com (Feb 6, 2020)

I agree with the guys; do your thing with the cleaning, flushing with water after. Be as thorough as you feel the need for.
Where'd you get pool shock in canada? I thought I read walmart...


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 6, 2020)

2com said:


> I agree with the guys; do your thing with the cleaning, flushing with water after. Be as thorough as you feel the need for.
> Where'd you get pool shock in canada? I thought I read walmart...


canadian tire, in a back storage room lol


----------



## 2com (Feb 6, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> canadian tire, in a back storage room lol


Right on. Thanks.
Is the brand mentioned in this thread, I remember something about that too. You didn't recognize it as pool shock due to a different name or something. I can search the thread later on.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 6, 2020)

2com said:


> Right on. Thanks.
> Is the brand mentioned in this thread, I remember something about that too. You didn't recognize it as pool shock due to a different name or something. I can search the thread later on.


Ill double check for you in a bit, cant recall if its just shock or not.


----------



## myke (Feb 6, 2020)

Sock it!! HTH.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 6, 2020)

myke said:


> Sock it!! HTH.


Yep this! @2com


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 9, 2020)

Hey guys, good morning.

Had a question regarding a res for my COCO girls. I have a 50g tote i want to use for a res, if i place a pump and waterfall in the res for aeration, how long could i expect the nute mix to stay viable?

the girls will use up 2-3 gallons per day.


----------



## Airwalker16 (Feb 9, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Hey guys, good morning.
> 
> Had a question regarding a res for my COCO girls. I have a 50g tote i want to use for a res, if i place a pump and waterfall in the res for aeration, how long could i expect the nute mix to stay viable?
> 
> the girls will use up 2-3 gallons per day.


Weeks


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 9, 2020)

Airwalker16 said:


> Weeks


Ok so nothing i need to worry about. Thanks AW


----------



## Airwalker16 (Feb 9, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Ok so nothing i need to worry about. Thanks AW


Also. Realistically, you could set the pump on a timer to mix for 15mins of every hour. 24/7 isn't necessarily needed.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 9, 2020)

Airwalker16 said:


> Also. Realistically, you could set the pump on a timer to mix for 15mins of every hour. 24/7 isn't necessarily needed.


Ya actually that was the plan. Run it on a timer to keep it mixing

glad you mentioned it, I’ll def go that route now.


----------



## myke (Feb 9, 2020)

Why premix so much?Ive just been mixing every day.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 9, 2020)

myke said:


> Why premix so much?Ive just been mixing every day.


ive been mixing everyday for 18 months, im over it. If theres no issue with mixing a big batch and only having to check PH , i want to do it lol


----------



## myke (Feb 9, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> ive been mixing everyday for 18 months, im over it. If theres no issue with mixing a big batch and only having to check PH , i want to do it lol


lol!ya it can get old,when im in a hurry i just take a gallon from my hydro res.


----------



## 2com (Feb 9, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> I have a 50g tote i want to use for a res, ...


Wait, hold up. Just incase you hadn't considered this, and by tote, you mean the totes we all get at "home improvement" stores, 40G of water is over 330lbs. I feel concerned even putting 20G in a 27G tote, so I don't go over 18, and the sides are slightly bowed. Just looking out for ya.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 9, 2020)

2com said:


> Wait, hold up. Just incase you hadn't considered this, and by tote, you mean the totes we all get at "home improvement" stores, 40G of water is over 330lbs. I feel concerned even putting 20G in a 27G tote, so I don't go over 18, and the sides are slightly bowed. Just looking out for ya.


Thanks bud,


Ya i thought of that earlier too, im not gonna fill it with 40gs, prob 20gs max for the reasons you mentioned lol....20gallons is more than enough, every week i can toss another 5-10g in there and bring it back up

just in case lol


----------



## Keesje (Feb 9, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Had a question regarding a res for my COCO girls. I have a 50g tote i want to use for a res, if i place a pump and waterfall in the res for aeration, how long could i expect the nute mix to stay viable?


A pump and waterfall for the purpose of aeration is useless (in your set up)
But for keeping your nutes mixed up it is good.

This set up is run to waste, right?


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 9, 2020)

Keesje said:


> A pump and waterfall for the purpose of aeration is useless (in your set up)
> But for keeping your nutes mixed up it is good.
> 
> This set up is run to waste, right?



No the pump and waterfall is for a separate res for my plants that are in coco, im tired of mixing 2-3 gallons of nutes daily, so gonna give them their own res.


My aero system is recirculating


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 9, 2020)

Haven’t updated in a minute. For good reason. It’s been quite the hectic couple weeks for me. The system is back together and running properly.

they are finally back in the big tote, 2 totes per res, runoff flowing back into res.

tomorrow I’ll start training them , give them a week or two to acclimate and then I’m flipping the room.


----------



## Keesje (Feb 9, 2020)

If you have a separate res (no matter for what system) you never need to aerate it.
In coco the roots get their O2 in the 'normal' way, like plants in soil.
O2 in gaseous state, which is way more effective then DO.
Except when you drown your roots 2/7 of course.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 9, 2020)

Keesje said:


> If you have a separate res (no matter for what system) you never need to aerate it.
> In coco the roots get their O2 in the 'normal' way, like plants in soil.
> O2 in gaseous state, which is way more effective then DO.
> Except when you drown your roots 2/7 of course.


So nutrients can just sit in a tote for long periods of time without aeration and won't go stagnant?

I was under the impression that bad shit happens when water sits still?


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## Keesje (Feb 9, 2020)

It is not the aeration, it is mixing. 
That the water gets also aerated is a side effect


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 9, 2020)

Keesje said:


> It is not the aeration, it is mixing.
> That the water gets also aerated is a side effect


Ok so I called it aeration, it's actually mixing. My bad.

The waterfall will keep the nutes mixing in the Rez Make sense now? Lol

Still think it isn't needed or was that because I called it by wrong term?


----------



## Keesje (Feb 9, 2020)

Of course it doesn't matter how you call it.
I just nitpicked because some people are under the impression that the aeration does also benefit the roots because there is more DO in the water.
And that this is needed.
But that is not the case.

If it would be my rez I would stir it up/mix it/aerate it on a timer. So not 24/7.
As long as there is a nice, even mix and that no residu or anything else stays at the bottom or that you can see (by the color for example) that it is not mixed well.


----------



## Lpena007 (Feb 9, 2020)

These any good for grow?


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## diggs99 (Feb 9, 2020)

Keesje said:


> Of course it doesn't matter how you call it.
> I just nitpicked because some people are under the impression that the aeration does also benefit the roots because there is more DO in the water.
> And that this is needed.
> But that is not the case.
> ...


Ya , I'm gonna run it on a 1/15 or 1/20 timer or something similar.

Just to keep things moving


----------



## fragileassassin (Feb 9, 2020)

I have one of the 55 gallon HDX totes as my outside res. I played with it some before I built the system. I filled it to and inch from the top and it was rather sketchy without the lid on. 3/4 full or less seemed like no problem. 1/2 full is barely noticeable flex.

Im sure you know about my barrel with how much I talk about it lmao...
I run a big pump with 1" hose for 15 mins every 2 hours and it keeps it mixed up pretty well. I give it a good stir every few days just to be safe.
I adjusted the system volume down slightly to match the barrel earlier today. So now I have a holding tank thats full system volume. Nice and easy. When it drinks the barrel, change the water.
I can actually do it all in the barrel now. I closed the valve and prepared a full barrel at my mix. I use a 1400gph mixing pump so once the system is drained I just swap that hose over to the main res and drain the barrel into it. Then I fill the barrel up and do the exact same mix again for top off.




myke said:


> Why premix so much?Ive just been mixing every day.


Because less work is more better! and lazy AF. Once it stabilizes I can pretty much forget about it for 2 weeks until they really start drinking.


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## diggs99 (Feb 10, 2020)

Lpena007 said:


> View attachment 4475827View attachment 4475828These any good for grow?


They would be ok for veg, not so good for flower tho.




fragileassassin said:


> I have one of the 55 gallon HDX totes as my outside res. I played with it some before I built the system. I filled it to and inch from the top and it was rather sketchy without the lid on. 3/4 full or less seemed like no problem. 1/2 full is barely noticeable flex.
> 
> Im sure you know about my barrel with how much I talk about it lmao...
> I run a big pump with 1" hose for 15 mins every 2 hours and it keeps it mixed up pretty well. I give it a good stir every few days just to be safe.
> ...


Thats a slick setup bud, love the efficiency of it all lol.

Ive been hand watering my coco plants daily and mixing anywhere from 2-5 gallons of nutes daily for the past year. Im over it lol

Loving the aero now that its running properly, its easy labor. The coco gals tho, they are still work, now that they are maxed out in the 2g pots, they can be watered 3 times daily without issue. So having a good size res will be very nice lol


----------



## TeddyNugget (Feb 10, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> They would be ok for veg, not so good for flower tho.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why not set up a top feed drip for the coco girls? Especially if they’re in 2 gallon pots. I’ve seen people watering with top feed drip on timers every 1.5-2 hours during peak flower. They say that’s how they get their massive yields. 

Pure Coco is the 1 style I have yet to try, so I can’t comment from personal experience.
But I’ve run drain to waste top feed drip before. I built it myself for cheap.

I got a couple pallets, bought a piece of that wavy plastic (corrugated) roofing and mounted it on the pallets on a slight angle (so the water runs to 1 side) and then I used a piece of gutter underneath the edge of the corrugated roofing to catch all the run-off, then ran a piece of garden hose from the end of the gutter to where I drained the waste water.


----------



## myke (Feb 10, 2020)

When feeding multiple feeds per day are they all to runoff? Or is just say once a day to runoff and the rest are just a watering? Thx


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 10, 2020)

myke said:


> When feeding multiple feeds per day are they all to runoff? Or is just say once a day to runoff and the rest are just a watering? Thx


Honestly, most times no runoff at all. i keep my coco pretty moist once the root ball fills the small 2g pots. Every few days i will totally drench the pots tho and see lots of runoff, washing away any salt buildup.

Last run i was watering 5 times daily ala DJM , so far this bunch are taking water 3 times daily.


----------



## TintEastwood (Feb 10, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Ive been hand watering my coco plants daily and mixing anywhere from 2-5 gallons of nutes daily for the past year. Im over it lol


Memberberries. lol Like many of us farmers, you loved that hand spank watering in the beginning. (And it is of great value for new coco'ers IMO.)
Gotta guess....you been too busy building lights/aero and lovin life!!!
But mang oh mang I thought you automated that already. Too easy - git-r done. 

My next grow system - High Pressure Aero Octopots FTW!


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 10, 2020)

TintEastwood said:


> Memberberries. lol Like many of us farmers, you loved that hand spank watering in the beginning. (And it is of great value for new coco'ers IMO.)
> Gotta guess....you been too busy building lights/aero and lovin life!!!
> But mang oh mang I thought you automated that already. Too easy - git-r done.
> 
> My next grow system - High Pressure Aero Octopots FTW!


Hahaha ya, i was gonna automate everything a bunch of times, something always came up and i just kept on hand watering....Mixing 2-5gs every day 

I have all the lines and manifolds and pumps to run drip,


----------



## myke (Feb 10, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Honestly, most times no runoff at all. i keep my coco pretty moist once the root ball fills the small 2g pots. Every few days i will totally drench the pots tho and see lots of runoff, washing away any salt buildup.
> 
> Last run i was watering 5 times daily ala DJM , so far this bunch are taking water 3 times daily.


What is DJM. Some coco lingo?


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 10, 2020)

myke said:


> What is DJM. Some coco lingo?


DJM is a who, not a what

Hes a grower that has a huge thread over on icmag dedicated to growing in coco. Hes a little unconventional in a few things he does, but his room is always jam packed with primo ganja.

Its a very long read, but so much good info in there.






Coco Tree's


Hi all. My name is Don Juan Matus. Some of you may recognize me from other forums or from my old "rockwool trees" thread. Took a leave of absence after the loss of the ships captain. In that time i have converted from flock wool grows to coco. Looks like the ship didn't sink, so i thought id...



www.icmag.com


----------



## myke (Feb 10, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> DJM is a who, not a what
> 
> Hes a grower that has a huge thread over on icmag dedicated to growing in coco. Hes a little unconventional in a few things he does, but his room is always jam packed with primo ganja.
> 
> ...


I just skippped to his posts,awesome read.thx,my smart tv jammed at page 7.right around the high humidity he runs.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 10, 2020)

myke said:


> I just skippped to his posts,awesome read.thx,my smart tv jammed at page 7.right around the high humidity he runs.


ya man, hes a smart dude and makes things work for him.

i ran my room very similar to his for my BBnc run, it worked well, best crop ive had by a large margin. just gotta have gale force winds in the room to keep the heavy air moving and be wary of bud rot near the end.


----------



## myke (Feb 10, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> ya man, hes a smart dude and makes things work for him.
> 
> i ran my room very similar to his for my BBnc run, it worked well, best crop ive had by a large margin. just gotta have gale force winds in the room to keep the heavy air moving and be wary of bud rot near the end.


Ya great thats all i need is 4 more fans in space i dont have.Good ifo on watering.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 10, 2020)

myke said:


> Ya great thats all i need is 4 more fans in space i dont have.Good ifo on watering.


Ya with his method, numerous fans are a must for sure.

i have 4 x 16" hurricanes and another 4 small clip fans, they were all running during that crop. RH set at 70-75% , it was very heavy when you walked in the room.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 12, 2020)

Not sure if I have an issue or it’s the plants showing a little stress from the powered up leds but all 8 have a curly look to them. Not much praying.

ph is being monitored regularly and stays within solid range.
Roots appear to look decent. Plants seem to be growing well, it’s just the appearance of the leaves, they just seem off to me for some reason.

Let me know what you think.


----------



## myke (Feb 12, 2020)

Puffy with dark green vains,Did water temp change?Looks like a reaction from cold water?


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## diggs99 (Feb 12, 2020)

myke said:


> Puffy with dark green vains,Did water temp change?Looks like a reaction from cold water?


ohhhh man I never even thought of that.

Yes water temp did change when they moved from the cooler to the big totes. The res temps are def cooler than what the veg box.

will they adjust to the cooler temps or so I need to try and warm the water up?


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## myke (Feb 12, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> ohhhh man I never even thought of that.
> 
> Yes water temp did change when they moved from the cooler to the big totes. The res temps are def cooler than what the veg box.
> 
> will they adjust to the cooler temps or so I need to try and warm the water up?


Hmmm,I would see if they will adjust.Whats the temp now?monitor it for a day and see how much it changes.


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## diggs99 (Feb 12, 2020)

myke said:


> Hmmm,I would see if they will adjust.Whats the temp now?monitor it for a day and see how much it changes.


temps in the res have stayed at 69-70f since it started running Sunday past, hasnt changed really. Ive been running the timer 1min on 10 off.

Temps in the veg box were 74-75f...so def a solid


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## myke (Feb 12, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> temps in the res have stayed at 69-70f since it started running Sunday past, hasnt changed really. Ive been running the timer 1min on 10 off.
> 
> Temps in the veg box were 74-75f...so def a solid


I know in my rdwc they dont like a 5 deg f change when i flush mid cycle.Ive since added warm water to my grow space faucet.
The leaves show the dark green vains,this is something else i think.Mg is my first guess.


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## myke (Feb 12, 2020)

The roots look awesome though,they sure like the LPA.


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## diggs99 (Feb 12, 2020)

myke said:


> I know in my rdwc they dont like a 5 deg f change when i flush mid cycle.Ive since added warm water to my grow space faucet.
> The leaves show the dark green vains,this is something else i think.Mg is my first guess.


Ya this makes sense and something i never even considered.

The leaves look exactly as you describe, puffy and dark veins.

Ill keep an eye on them, hopefully they just adapt and its a non issue.




myke said:


> The roots look awesome though,they sure like the LPA.


Thanks bud, ya they really do love the aero. Prob more than i do lol


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## icetech (Feb 13, 2020)

Wow, i didn't know a temp change would do that.. i have a plant right now that (cause i'm dumb) the water got to about 80 in DWC then i paniced and dropped it to about 70 really fast.. i am thinking nitrogen tox.. but i had no idea the temp chance can cause that. Do they usually adjust and pick back up?

I'm still going to cut my nutes in half tonight just in case.. but yeah big puffy leaves and twisting and DARK green...

And this happened pretty much the day after i lowered the temp..i would have never thought of that.


----------



## Keesje (Feb 13, 2020)

Temperature changes can also cause root rot (a particular one from the large family of root rots)
5 degrees (Fahrenheit) difference is not enough for that, but larger differences for sure can be harmful.
But any sudden change in temperature should be avoided.


----------



## fragileassassin (Feb 15, 2020)

I sometimes have 15-20F swings when I change the water and have yet to experience any side effects on healthy vegging plants. My tap water comes out 50-55F in the cooler half of the year and it takes a full day or two to warm back up to 70F.


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## diggs99 (Feb 15, 2020)

fragileassassin said:


> I sometimes have 15-20F swings when I change the water and have yet to experience any side effects on healthy vegging plants. My tap water comes out 50-55F in the cooler half of the year and it takes a full day or two to warm back up to 70F.


So, do you think its another issuue causing the leaf whackiness? any ideas?

they havent improved their look but they are growing like crazy


----------



## Axion42 (Feb 15, 2020)

fragileassassin said:


> I sometimes have 15-20F swings when I change the water and have yet to experience any side effects on healthy vegging plants. My tap water comes out 50-55F in the cooler half of the year and it takes a full day or two to warm back up to 70F.


Same here, except the opposite, when I do res changes in summer tap temps could be in the 80s, never seen any side effects to it. Takes 1-2 hours for chiller to get it back in line.


----------



## Axion42 (Feb 15, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> So, do you think its another issuue causing the leaf whackiness? any ideas?
> 
> they havent improved their look but they are growing like crazy


Also have to keep in mind when doing hydro/ aero I've found that ppms should generally be a tad lower than other medium mixes. I've found that to be true especially with high pressure aero, 600ppm would give me tip burn. Maybe your ppm little on the high side?


----------



## fragileassassin (Feb 15, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> So, do you think its another issuue causing the leaf whackiness? any ideas?
> 
> they havent improved their look but they are growing like crazy


Being that its already been 3-4 days I would have expected them to perk back up by now if it was a temp issue.
You said something about stress from the LEDs, did you switch to the LED from something else recently? Thats the only thing standing out to me rn.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 15, 2020)

fragileassassin said:


> Being that its already been 3-4 days I would have expected them to perk back up by now if it was a temp issue.
> You said something about stress from the LEDs, did you switch to the LED from something else recently? Thats the only thing standing out to me rn.


Yes they were under t5s for a few weeks while they rooted and began veg. For some reason tho, this dosent appear to be light issues, the leaves have a weird twist to them, not like the normal light stress we would see, im starting to wonder if my blulab is out of calibration and is giving me bad numbers.

The water temps sounded plausible to me but at the same time, the differences wasnt overly drastic and after a week and still no change, im thinking its gotta be something else.

As i said, it hasnt slowed growth, these fkn plants are little beasts already, every stock and stem has girth about it lol


its just the leaves, they dont look right at all.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 15, 2020)

Axion42 said:


> Also have to keep in mind when doing hydro/ aero I've found that ppms should generally be a tad lower than other medium mixes. I've found that to be true especially with high pressure aero, 600ppm would give me tip burn. Maybe your ppm little on the high side?


Ya im only at 700ppm right now

Also a possibility im running too low on calmag, using only 4ml per gallon, according to renfro, i need to increase there for sure.


----------



## fragileassassin (Feb 15, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Yes they were under t5s for a few weeks while they rooted and began veg.


I also agree that the plant is not happy right now.
Was just the only thing that popped out from the context of everything. I use a lux meter and try to ease them into the LED for the first week after coming out from under the T5s. My boards give more light at like 40% power 12" away than my 8 bulb T5s do at 4"
To me the twist shows its trying to hide from the light by twisting leaves to minimize surface area that takes direct light. Its said to be fairly common in indoor plants that get taken outside into real sunlight for the first time. 
Is there a fan blowing directly on it or anything else?

Wouldnt hurt to check your meter calibration. I often double check mine just to make sure when things dont make sense.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 15, 2020)

lights are completely dimmed to lowest power, ive had plants show stress from the leds on previous crops, it just never had the same look. not sure what it is but its different lol

gonna calibrate my meter , hopefully thats it.


----------



## fragileassassin (Feb 15, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> lights are completely dimmed to lowest power, ive had plants show stress from the leds on previous crops, it just never had the same look. not sure what it is but its different lol
> 
> gonna calibrate my meter , hopefully thats it.


Yeah this one kinda has me confused and I was mostly just reaching for possibilities lol.
I hate to say it, but it may be a let it go and we'll see what happens next if none of us get that oh duh moment


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 16, 2020)

Ya I dunno, I’m starting to think I’m growing lettuce lol

Look at this funky leaf, something isn’t right. Still no real idea what tho lol


----------



## OneHitDone (Feb 16, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Ya I dunno, I’m starting to think I’m growing lettuce lol
> 
> Look at this funky leaf, something isn’t right. Still no real idea what tho lol


Are you positive things aren't going south in the root zone?


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 16, 2020)

OneHitDone said:


> Are you positive things aren't going south in the root zone?


Im really not sure,


Im using hydroguard and the roots are a real healthy bunch....ill go snap pics , as far as i can tell, they look good, no weird smells

res temps are stuck at 70f

ph has been solid at 5.8, ill usually readjust after 3 days when it drifts to 6.2, but as i mentioned before, theres always the chance my blulab is off and needs to be calibrated. I was gonna do it last night but realized i was out of the calibration solution.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 16, 2020)

@OneHitDone 

root pics


----------



## myke (Feb 16, 2020)

Baking soda and water should be 7.9ph,regardless of the mix.
That is some funky twist! Im no help but it must have something to do with the LPA.Never seen that in rdwc.


----------



## myke (Feb 17, 2020)

How do they look today?After some reading the twist could be from too wet .


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 17, 2020)

They seem fine. i upped the calmag....They were just supercropped and flattened out before this pic.


Too wet? you mean i should be letting the roots dry out more between sprays?


----------



## myke (Feb 17, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> They seem fine. i upped the calmag....They were just supercropped and flattened out before this pic.
> 
> 
> Too wet? you mean i should be letting the roots dry out more between sprays?


Yes,have a look at the other thread in aero my bsmt or something.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 17, 2020)

Well i upped time timer to 1/13.....after inspecting roots at 9mins, everything still had droplets , so they can def withstand more off time.


----------



## Keesje (Feb 17, 2020)

How can roots be too wet in hydro?
As long as there is enough O2 as well, they can never be 'too wet'.
In DWC they are wet 24/7.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 18, 2020)

Keesje said:


> How can roots be too wet in hydro?
> As long as there is enough O2 as well, they can never be 'too wet'.
> In DWC they are wet 24/7.


Ya thats a very good question , ive searched the net and have yet to find any proof that aero can be overwatered. I adjusted my timer just in case, but i was scratching my head when doing so, i was wondering how this could make a difference as other forms of hydro have roots submerged in water constantly.

The only reason i see growers using different spray times, seems to be pump/heat related.


----------



## PissingNutes (Feb 18, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Ya thats a very good question , ive searched the net and have yet to find any proof that aero can be overwatered. I adjusted my timer just in case, but i was scratching my head when doing so, i was wondering how this could make a difference as other forms of hydro have roots submerged in water constantly.
> 
> The only reason i see growers using different spray times, seems to be pump/heat related.


Overwatered as in the medium is not taking in an delivering enough oxygen to the *whole* root.

I wonder if the leaf issue is from the rootmass 'choking'.


----------



## Keesje (Feb 18, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> The only reason i see growers using different spray times, seems to be pump/heat related.


Another good reason for the pump being on/off is that O2 in gaseous state can reach the roots.
Very effective.
In LPA or HPA and with your pump on a timer it is impossible to overwater.
The moment you stop spraying all the water will drip from the roots. Making way for oxygen.
So your problem has nothing to do with overwatering.
In DWC it sometimes happen when the rootball gets to thick and fresh DO-rich water can't reach the inside of the rootball.
But with LPA or HPA... nah.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 18, 2020)

PissingNutes said:


> Overwatered as in the medium is not taking in an delivering enough oxygen to the *whole* root.
> 
> I wonder if the leaf issue is from the rootmass 'choking'.


What do you mean by "choking" and what is the cause and remedy for it? thanks for taking the time to reply, appreciate it.




Keesje said:


> Another good reason for the pump being on/off is that O2 in gaseous state can reach the roots.
> Very effective.
> In LPA or HPA and with your pump on a timer it is impossible to overwater.
> The moment you stop spraying all the water will drip from the roots. Making way for oxygen.
> ...


Ya this all makes sense. Im just grasping at straws, willing to try any adjustments to correct the issue.

I will say this, everything is looking much better since i upped the calmag, so maybe it was a calmag related issue as @Renfro suggested from the beginning.

I really have no idea. You have any guesses on the leaf twist keesje?


----------



## Keesje (Feb 18, 2020)

When it is about nutrients and such... I am clueless.
I always have to ask for help myself.


----------



## myke (Feb 18, 2020)

So does much of the sppray water return to the res?Also how did u seal off your tote lids?


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 18, 2020)

myke said:


> So does much of the sppray water return to the res?Also how did u seal off your tote lids?


Ya majority runs back to the res....only a small bit in the bottom of the totes that dont drain between sprays.

I bought thin weather strip and sealed them.


----------



## TintEastwood (Feb 18, 2020)

Hey Diggs. LPA clueless. Been lurking all thru the build and deploy. Bummer having the funky leaf symptoms.

What kinda temps/humidity?
I forget if you are sealed or what. Venting day/night?


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 18, 2020)

TintEastwood said:


> Hey Diggs. LPA clueless. Been lurking all thru the build and deploy. Bummer having the funky leaf symptoms.
> 
> What kinda temps/humidity?
> I forget if you are sealed or what. Venting day/night?


I think the leaf thing is under control, if i had to guess, i think it was a calmag issue. Since i upped it 2-3 days ago they appear much better.

Temps and humidity are all running through the controller. 84.5f 70rh right now.
Sorta sealed lol...no co2....using active intake and exhaust.


----------



## TintEastwood (Feb 18, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> I think the leaf thing is under control, if i had to guess, i think it was a calmag issue. Since i upped it 2-3 days ago they appear much better.
> 
> Temps and humidity are all running through the controller. 84.5f 70rh right now.
> Sorta sealed lol...no co2....using active intake and exhaust.


Good deal. Glad they are looking up. 
Beautiful build and grow. Got my popcorn.


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## diggs99 (Feb 23, 2020)

TintEastwood said:


> Good deal. Glad they are looking up.
> Beautiful build and grow. Got my popcorn.


Thanks bud, they are back on track, i flipped the room yesterday.

The main stocks and secondary stems are already much much bigger compared to anything ive grown in soil or coco and in less than half the time. Its insane to watch.


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## PhatNuggz (Feb 25, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Hey Phat, thanks for the info...got a few questions about your LPA/HPA setup if you dont mind.
> 
> What was your spraying intervals when you got the rot?
> What size of system were you running and how big was your pump?
> ...



Spray intervals were short, similar to HPA

Large pump, though I don't recall the GPH: A large pump is needed to push nutes through HPA mist heads . How large requires testing prior to running the set up. I did, b ut failed to understand that the sprays were splashing against the bottom of the lid and would soak into the net pots

The problem was the spray was splashing up against the bottom of the lid, getting past the stones and onto the starter cubes. The soaked cubes around the base of the plant was the cause of RR. Shouldn't be an issue with clones and no starter medium

hth


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## diggs99 (Feb 25, 2020)

Here they are , day 3 since flip.

im running 1 min on / 20 off right now. 

770 ppm
5.8-6.2 ph
water temps 72f
room temps 84.5
rh 70%

Ive just been supercropping and mashing them every day, spreading them out and keeping the canopy somewhat flat. They are doing well tho.


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## myke (Mar 1, 2020)

Are you using same nute mix as your coco?The H3ad~6~9 ml/gallon?


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## diggs99 (Mar 1, 2020)

myke said:


> Are you using same nute mix as your coco?The H3ad~6~9 ml/gallon?


Yes, but i have tinkered with the ml/g...same ratio but sometimes 2/3 or 4/6 ml/g depending on how the plants look or at what stage they are in.


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## diggs99 (Mar 1, 2020)

Here they are day 8 since flip


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## diggs99 (Mar 7, 2020)

Here they are at day 14 since flipping


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## diggs99 (Mar 18, 2020)

2 weeks since I updated this thread.

day 25 since flip.


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## WillieP (Mar 18, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> 2 weeks since I updated this thread.
> 
> day 25 since flip.


Looking good!
You have any root porn shots?

WillieP


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## diggs99 (Mar 18, 2020)

WillieP said:


> Looking good!
> You have any root porn shots?
> 
> WillieP


Nah, too hard lifting the lids now, afraid they will break from the weight. Next time i have a look ill try to remember to grab a snap tho


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## fragileassassin (Mar 18, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Nah, too hard lifting the lids now, afraid they will break from the weight. Next time i have a look ill try to remember to grab a snap tho


Theyre pretty strong, I still lift mine enough to peek in once a week even with them under the screen.
Lookin good though! 
I started up something of a LPA box myself to make some seeds. Took some tinkering but its working very well.


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## diggs99 (Mar 18, 2020)

fragileassassin said:


> Theyre pretty strong, I still lift mine enough to peek in once a week even with them under the screen.
> Lookin good though!
> I started up something of a LPA box myself to make some seeds. Took some tinkering but its working very well.


ya I lift them once a week to check things out. Every week they are getting heavier and heavier tho, so I’m nervous each time lol

I’ll take your word for it tho, you guys are used to these totes and lids. This is my first time using them.


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## OneHitDone (Apr 29, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> ya I lift them once a week to check things out. Every week they are getting heavier and heavier tho, so I’m nervous each time lol
> 
> I’ll take your word for it tho, you guys are used to these totes and lids. This is my first time using them.


Hey bro, how did you end up making out with the LPA system ?


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## diggs99 (May 2, 2020)

OneHitDone said:


> Hey bro, how did you end up making out with the LPA system ?


Very good. Will be chopping within a couple days. I’ll toss up a few pics later when the lights come on.

I am def a believer in LPA


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## BlackmoreRulz (May 3, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Very good. Will be chopping within a couple days. I’ll toss up a few pics later when the lights come on.
> 
> I am def a believer in LPA


Where did you finally set at on your spray timings?


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## diggs99 (May 4, 2020)

BlackmoreRulz said:


> Where did you finally set at on your spray timings?


I started at 1 on 15 off. 

I finished at 1 on 24 off.


I think the plants and rootball dictate the timers , so it will vary from different grows imo.


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## Airwalker16 (May 4, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> I started at 1 on 15 off.
> 
> I finished at 1 on 24 off.
> 
> ...


Used to have 1 on, 59 off. Have since switched to 2 on, 28 off.


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## diggs99 (May 6, 2020)

I forgot to come back with pics, I already took down 2 totes/ 4 plants. I’m expecting great quality and numbers.

I’m gonna chop the remaining 4 in a few days, allow them to show higher % if amber, see if there’s any real noticeable difference in the high.

I just finished taking all the big fans off before I took this pic, you can see the colour change pretty clear. Lots of purpling and lower buds kept on the greener side.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the thread of helped me out along the way.


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## Airwalker16 (May 6, 2020)

The main difference in high I've noticed is only when you cut down fairly early. With still all clear and milky, compared to over 40% Amber. Racy and heartpumpin vs. Couch lock


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## diggs99 (May 6, 2020)

Airwalker16 said:


> The main difference in high I've noticed is only when you cut down fairly early. With still all clear and milky, compared to over 40% Amber. Racy and heartpumpin vs. Couch lock


Ya that’s what I have read and been told as well. I figure at the very least, it gives me a few extra days break before I gotta start trimming again lol


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## diggs99 (May 6, 2020)

Here’s a another snap.


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