# Something People Ought to Know



## mccumcumber (Jan 9, 2012)

I've seen a whole bunch of threads on here about people complaining that their organic nutes just aren't cutting it, their plant is showing lots of micronute deficiencies, etc etc.

What people need to understand is that when they grow "organic" it is a process. I'll explain how plants get nutrition from the soil, and then it will become pretty damn obvious why your plants aren't really getting the "love" that they need.

First thing is first, when you just dump a bunch of organic matter into a pot you aren't doing shit. Well actually, more often than not all you're adding is shit, but anyway... The whole way that organics work is a process. Once you have organic matter in an area you will attract tiny little bugs that can eat that matter. After they start chowing down, their predators, more tiny bugs, are attracted to the same area. These predators start to eat away at the bugs and the bugs, either through deification or death, exude nutrition into the soil that plants can eat. Plants CANNOT eat organic matter as it is.

What do we know about bacteria and fungi (the tiny bugs)? That their presence and growth is exponential. What does this mean? It means that you will start with 1-100 little critters eating your stuff, and, after a while, you'll end up with millions. You obviously won't have very much nutrition coming from 1-100 little critters, but you will have a sufficient amount coming from millions-billions. This is why soil recipes call for you to WAIT. Just look at subcool's recipe. He says you ought to wait a month, at that point your soil will be full of nutrition and ready to support some plant life.

How exactly are nutrients absorbed through the rhizosphere? The rhizosphere refers to the area around the roots of a plant. Your roots are covered with hydrogen, a cation, which they exchange for other cations as well as attract anions. This is basic chemistry. Obviously if you just put a bunch of organic matter in your pot then the microbes will not have a chance to exude any cations or anions, thus the roots will have nothing to exchange for their hydrogen. If the clay and humus (sand is too large to carry anions or cations) in your soil has a sufficient amount of nutrition then it will exchange its cations for the hydrogen on the roots. This is how the plant gets it nutrients. The rate at which a plant can absorb nutrition is referred to as its CEC (cation exchange rate). The higher it is, the more nutrition your plant can absorb. However their is a limit to a good thing. You don't want your CEC to get too high because that will make it so your roots cannot get sufficient oxygen and/or water and your soil will also have very poor drainage. Balance is the key to a good soil as it is the key to good growing.

The way salt based nutrients (chemical ferts) give your plant nutrition is by skipping the whole process of microbes exuding food and going straight to the roots. Obviously what is not used by the plant is then left in your soil and acts as a build up that can be used later. Most of the time this salt build up is unwanted though and that's why flushing became common practice. Chemical ferts provide immediate, and most of the time, good results. However, the salt based nutrition coming from your chemical ferts results in the death of your microbes. Your soil will no longer be able to provide nutrition to your plants and you will rely solely on ferts to feed your plant. That's why as time goes on you need to add more and more ferts to your grow. There is nothing wrong with this at all, but if you plan on going the route of chemical ferts, don't waste your time with a soil recipe and "organic nutrition."

When adding nutrients remember that their needs to be a balance. This goes back to the anion and cation discussion. Calcium, potassium, sodium, magnesium, iron, ammonium and hydrogen are cations. While chloride, sulfate, nitrate, and phosphate are anions. Remember that cations hang out in the soil, thus the anions must be repelled (again basic chemistry here). What does this mean? When adding nutrition realize that the anions that are not immediately absorbed will be repelled out of your soil solution. If the soil is in a contained area then they will form a cluster of their own away from your clay and humus. This will call for a flush to get rid of them. This is also why you should be careful what nutrition you buy. I've literally seen 0-50-0 in a hydro store before. I literally asked the worker if he was fucking kidding me with that useless nute and he said though he highly suggests against it, many people buy it because they read that phosphorous makes bigger buds. Though P does help out your flowers, all 0-50-0 will do is cause huge fucking problems. In a balanced recipe all the nutrition will be used and you will not experience nute burn. If you are getting nute burn, rethink about what nutes you are using and find a more balanced recipe.

Hope this helps clear up some confusion. If you would like to read more about the topic of organic gardening and nutrition, _Teaming with Microbes_ is your book. Literally everything I covered here is covered in the first two chapters of that book. There is so much more great info in there, and if you can't afford it, it is available on btjunkie as well as other torrenting sites! Good growing and have a good day!

Edit: Well it looks like you guys enjoyed the info so time to add a little more about nutrition uptake.

Fungi and Bacteria are the two primary "workers" for providing nutrition to your plant. Fungi, though much smaller than bacteria individually, form long sort of "tunnels" from your plant's rhizosphere to nutrition found in nearby soil. Fungi are special in that they can break down "harder" materials and bring nutrition through their tunneling systems. They then either keep the nutrients until they die and then exude the nutrition into back into the soil in a plant or bacterial edible form. As said before, fungi break down hard materials, like bones, phosphorous, copper, zinc, etc. As you can probably now tell, fungi are very important. It is also important to note that the best defense against harmful fungi is beneficial fungi. Beneficial fungi out compete harmful fungi every time.

What are harmful fungi? Harmful fungi cause diseases on your plant. They do this by getting their nutrition off of your plant without exchanging anything for the nutrition. This could cause a wide variety of diseases such as root rot, plant yellowing, and other sad looking signs. That is why when you see a problem with your plant people immediately think "deficiency." And it is true, however, the reason is because there is not enough nutrition in your soil for the beneficial fungi to out compete the harmful fungi. That is why having a balanced, sufficient, amount of nutrition will always result in a good looking plant. If the nutrition is there, beneficial fungi out compete harmful fungi every time.

What exactly do bacteria do then? Well, bacteria don't move very far during their life times and they also do not form tunnels. They also don't really break down hard material, so they provide the service of breaking down the softer materials in soil for your plants. Bacteria also store nutrition that would otherwise be lost in soil due to leeching, so they got that going for them too. Also, as a part of the metabolic system of bacteria, they release CO2, this then gets absorbed by the plant via photosynthesis and process continues. The same info about beneficial and harmful fungi is true about bacteria as well.

The two different types of nitrogen ought to be mentioned to provide some additional understanding of nutrition. Fungi absorb a cation form of nitrogen (ammonium, NH4) while bacteria turn that ammonium into an anion version of nitrogen (nitrate, NO3) b/c of a special bacteria called nitrosomonas. MJ plants prefer NO3 and therefor prefer more bacteria in their soil then tress and shrubs, which prefer NH4. The preferred ratio of bacteria:fungi in most annuals is actually 1:1. It is super convenient that this is true because a balance of bacteria and fungi will keep your ph in the exact middle of the spectrum, 6-7, which turns out is perfect for mj grown in soil! It's almost as if the weed plant evolved this way to adapt to the fungus and bacteria that existed in the soil before its creation.

What should be noted is that fungi and bacteria don't just magically appear, they form as a result of your plant's exudates. That is really important to understand in organic gardening. There is always a balance, and you need to respect that balance. Don't look for quick fixes and miracle solutions in organic gardening, it just won't happen. Be patient and good things will happen. I hope this helps y'all understand some more basics about nutrition.


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## malignant (Jan 9, 2012)

this is a great post, keep adding more on overlooked areas of organic grows. this needs to be a sticky for this section.


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## Izoc666 (Jan 9, 2012)

good info !! +rep for ya 

666


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## Snafu1236 (Jan 9, 2012)

Good post! I am glad to see a reference to Teaming!

I wrote a Organic book thread post a few weeks back, hoping it would go sticky because of the valuable info listed in there(teaming was obv at the top!)...how does a post go sticky? especially so fast?

+rep on a nice post, and keep preaching people to read TEAMING WITH MICROBES....one of the best soil food web discuissions on paper I have read...ever!


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## personified (Jan 9, 2012)

You should look at your entire grow as a symbiotic relationship from nutes to pest control and environment. Nature is a balancing act the pagens worshiped and the ying and yang of the tao.

x and y must always equal z or the equation will fall apart.


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## Jack Harer (Jan 9, 2012)

For the most part, that post was outstanding!!! Very good info and well presented.


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## mccumcumber (Jan 9, 2012)

Thank you all for the positive reviews!


> *You should look at your entire grow as a symbiotic relationship from nutes to pest control and environment.*


Well they are all connected, a diverse and plentiful bacteria presence in your soil will result in bacteria out competing all of the harmful pathogens eliminating most of your pests. There are little buggers that will start chowin down on your plant, but they have their predators. Trichogramma Wasps, lady bugs, and dragon flies are amongst some of the little creatures that will kill off bugs eating your stuff, while leaving your plant alone.

Edit: I just saw your aquaponics post very nice stuff! I have been wanting to get into aquaponics for some time now. I'm thinking of doing mine in a greenhouse, just saving up for the right materials and what not.



> *this is a great post, keep adding more on overlooked areas of organic grows. this needs to be a sticky for this section. *


I'll read some more info on this section and see what I can add. I was thinking about adding in something about bacteria and fungi in the near future.


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## MalcolmMustang (Jan 9, 2012)

is neemcake bad for your soil web? I know that neem is a fungicide and mycorrhizae are fungi. I was thinking of amending with neem cake this time around because of gnats.


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## NightbirdX (Jan 9, 2012)

That was a quick sticky, and a quick, but informative, read.


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## Monkeymonk840 (Jan 9, 2012)

Advanced nutes has a grow cd and it's about organics and beneficials and the relationship and also preparation of soils. I learned a lot from that.


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## mccumcumber (Jan 9, 2012)

I personally would use lady bugs or dragon flies over neem oil. You can buy lady bugs at most if not all organic sores. 

If you only have access to neem don't worry too much, it will kill some of your microbiology, but not too significant of an amount.


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## MalcolmMustang (Jan 9, 2012)

Oh I know that neem oil should be used sparingly. What I said was Neemcake. It is used as a soil amendment before planting. Provides nitrogen for the plant + protection from bugs. You can find it here. http://www.neemresource.com/NeemCake.html


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## mccumcumber (Jan 10, 2012)

The adds about make it seem like its a pretty cool product. The Azadirachtin content doesn't seem high enough to kill off significant fungi unless abused, so I think you should to be good there. The slow release nitrogen means that there is probably a decent amount of salt in it so again I'd be careful about how much you apply. I would like to see the results of it, looks like a potentially beneficial product from what I can tell.


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## MTmed (Jan 10, 2012)

Neem cake is safe. Used in the Matt Rize veganic program.


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## ottawaliquid (Jan 11, 2012)

Just got Teaming with Microbes yesterday in the mail and read the first two chapters.. good stuff.. looking forward to the rest of the book and applying it to my indoor growing and my outdoor garden in the spring.


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## shnazul23 (Jan 13, 2012)

This was great info thank you for your knowledge I will use this wisely


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## tomcatjones (Jan 13, 2012)

the neem cake in the soil isnt to kill what is already there but the ward off future pests


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2012)

neem cake meal, karanja cake meal, crab shell meal........good pest control..........


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## unohu69 (Jan 14, 2012)

I have a pdf of teaming with microbes. ill have to break it open again, short term memory loss an all ya know....


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## Jack Harer (Jan 14, 2012)

Where did you get that PDF, if you don't mind sharing??? That would be a triple plus rep for sharing!!!


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## unohu69 (Jan 14, 2012)

I got mine from here:

http://www.demonoid.me/files/details/1813174/25320792/

you dont have to register for some of their stuff, not sure if this is one of them or not.

if you cant torrent, pm me, maybe i can email it to you. not sure if size will be a problem, its about 37.6 megs uncompressed.

pdf has good quality pics of the books pages, but the guy couldnt make up his mind which direction to scan the sucker. still totally readable tho.


just found it here also :

http://www.scribd.com/doc/35584697/Teaming-With-Microbes-A-Gardener-s-Guide-to-the-Soil-Food-Web-Organic

sometimes you can use this : http://scribddl.tk/ click on the scribd downloader link. then copy the address into the box.


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## Jack Harer (Jan 14, 2012)

I have a Demonoid acct (for what THAT is worth!!) thanx. I looked at TPB (which I think is far and above the better torrent site) to no avail.


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## unohu69 (Jan 14, 2012)

I used to use demonoid almost exclusively, had a great ratio probly 4yrs running, then they banned my account for no reason, just because some ignorant MF clicked report post. 

i like PB alot also, but I never logged in, ever, and the one time I uploaded a file ( a full scan of the pull out skryrim map, I was the first person to do so) PB banned my account on me. so now I only DL from PB, wont upload anything. The map is also on demonoid.


And no problem, I like to help the community. we are all in this together, in a way.....


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## Jack Harer (Jan 14, 2012)

Unohu, You liked that did ya?


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## unohu69 (Jan 14, 2012)

yeah thats a marvelous copy of that, much easier to read. kikd ya a rep bump for that one. Im a collector of grow pdfs.


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## MasterAce (Jan 18, 2012)

what about say using vegetable scraps and making a tea out of them? will that still require the month wait for the nutrients to breakdown?


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## Jack Harer (Jan 18, 2012)

Yes, you'll have to compost them, and for a bit longer than a month.


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## MasterAce (Jan 19, 2012)

good to know. thanks


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## bigbo420 (Jan 19, 2012)

Very Good Read!!! Please add more.


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## black77 (Jan 19, 2012)

very informative thread.+rep from me.
I agree w/ alot of your points. By no means am I an experianced/ seasoned grower or educated w/ a degree but since I started growing (have a few under the belt) I realized its a realationship w/ my girls I'm developing. meaning you are cultivating a give & take w/ your plants. it's going to learn from you & you will learn from it. we all have been the 1st time grower panicing over lil pit falls, stressing on the rate of growth & for us guys who are "fixers" will FU roally trying to fix things that aint broke. but all this helps you in your future grows to understand that "time" is the foundation for you & your plants. it's just up to you WHEN you will learn this. I can almost gurantee if you establish that patience w/ your plants it'll change everything.

But it's also really good to study & know your stuff.
thanx for giving back w/ this thread.


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## mccumcumber (Jan 22, 2012)

Thanks again everyone with your positive feedback! I'm sorry I've been away for a while, it's still trimming season for some and I need money... so you can guess why internet access has been hard lately.

I'm glad people are catching onto this thread and checking out teaming with microbes. Nothing can teach you more than a book and experience, with the latter being 75% of the knowledge gained.

I encourage everyone who has read this thread to try their own soil mixture based off what you think will result in the best yield/potency/whatever you want. Please, please start simple. This does not mean add only one or two amendments to your base soil. What this means is be smart about what you add, or build off of a soil recipe that you have tried in the past and have been successful with. The only way to know if a soil mixture is better than another is to compare results, remember this. Also know that trace elements in the right amounts are equally as important as nutrition in the right amounts. Understand the concept of limiting reagents. And always keep in mind that their is such a thing as too much nutrition in gardening, but no one has ever had bad results just using base soil and watering. When you try something be careful, too little is far better than too much.


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## PeyoteReligion (Jan 31, 2012)

So I run earth juice (not a tea, just mixed into water) in a soiless medium (sunshine#4). My plants absolutely love it. But I've been curious, does a soiless medium still support all the life needed to complete the organic process? The answer clearly has to be yes, because the plants do extremely well. 

Any info on this process when using a soiless peat based medium would be much appreciated. Because from what I understand my sunshine mix is a quasi hydro medium, but reacts a lot like soil.


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## mccumcumber (Jan 31, 2012)

Your medium is what you use to host the microbiology, soil just so happens to be what I use and know about. If there is food for your critters somewhere in your medium then your got yourself some beneficial bacteria and fungi.


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## chef c (Feb 8, 2012)

great post, but anyone could do an advanced garden or a botannicare garden and the results will smash an organic garden evert bloody time. Yeild, potency, flavor, aroma, and reliableresults from one harvest to the next. End of discusssion. People are way into the whole foods thing. Its sad. Go out, and try it one time. Flush or stop feeding 15-20 days before the thing comes down and leave the rest of it to companies that dedicate themselves to doing what they do. I hate how high and mighty the all organics people are. Get over it and grow some real buds. and go buy the shit you need for co2. nuff said


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## mccumcumber (Feb 8, 2012)

Advanced Nutrients is a joke, their nutes are lacking and they claim to be organic (kind of funny how you're knocking organics and mention that brand) but they're not. Go with Canna if you're going synthetic. I mentioned that there is nothing wrong with growing synthetically, organics are just cheaper, and way less of a hassle. I mix up my soil and let it sit for a month - 2 months, then put in my 2-3 week old plant and just use plain water throughout harvest. Pretty simple. This is the organics section, so I'd be careful about telling people to grow "real buds" here, you'll probably get flamed. Also, you should check out Humboldt Local, he's all organic outdoor (like myself) and his results are better than any synthetic results I've seen. I've done the whole aeroponics thing and I have a lot of friends on the hydro hype... yeah it looks really good, but I get higher off of my soil grown. And I have no idea where you get this taste and aroma notion from... Have you ever grown organically?


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## Jack Harer (Feb 8, 2012)

chef c said:


> great post, but anyone could do an advanced garden or a botannicare garden and the results will smash an organic garden evert bloody time. Yeild, potency, flavor, aroma, and reliableresults from one harvest to the next. End of discusssion. People are way into the whole foods thing. Its sad. Go out, and try it one time. Flush or stop feeding 15-20 days before the thing comes down and leave the rest of it to companies that dedicate themselves to doing what they do. I hate how high and mighty the all organics people are. Get over it and grow some real buds. and go buy the shit you need for co2. nuff said


As to the first statement:






And as to the second, and even the third statement, you are _obviously _an idiot. You _MIGHT_ do as well as an organic grower with equal experience (I doubt it very seriously, but you _MIGHT_) however there is no way in hell you'll do _BETTER. _nuff said


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## Tiami (Feb 9, 2012)

great read. this season it's gonna be my first growing and I don't have any experience with growing marijuana. but I know a few things about soil since I grow vines and olives and some vegetables. I was amazed how much attention people are giving to soil mixtures and nutrition, after reading a couple of forums. both organic and conventional. I would think that cannabis is the most nutritant hungry plant there is. but I doubt that. from where I come from, small island in Mediterrainian sea, people almost sow weed and come back in oktober to pick it up (figuratively speaking). what I believe is that there's no better soil mix than what nature can produce in healthy and non-cultivated enviroment. there's everything you need there, life and nutrition. if you want or need to add something, there's nothing better than well rotten manure and quality compost for me. for every soild type. this is how I plan the growing. germinate in soil-less medium = local sandy soil. transplanting into bigger pot: local sandy soil with little manure or compost. I will prepare my hole a month before planting (as big and as deep as possible): local soil (sand) + turn around and dig in humus strata of local soil + little well rotten sheep manure + little less rotten donkey manure on top + mulch on the hole. nice and simple.


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## mr.bigpot (Feb 9, 2012)

chef c said:


> great post, but anyone could do an advanced garden or a botannicare garden and the results will smash an organic garden evert bloody time. Yeild, potency, flavor, aroma, and reliableresults from one harvest to the next. End of discusssion. People are way into the whole foods thing. Its sad. Go out, and try it one time. Flush or stop feeding 15-20 days before the thing comes down and leave the rest of it to companies that dedicate themselves to doing what they do. I hate how high and mighty the all organics people are. Get over it and grow some real buds. and go buy the shit you need for co2. nuff said


stupid talk .........


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## Jack Harer (Feb 12, 2012)

Tiami said:


> great read. this season it's gonna be my first growing and I don't have any experience with growing marijuana. but I know a few things about soil since I grow vines and olives and some vegetables. I was amazed how much attention people are giving to soil mixtures and nutrition, after reading a couple of forums. both organic and conventional. I would think that cannabis is the most nutritant hungry plant there is. but I doubt that. from where I come from, small island in Mediterrainian sea, people almost sow weed and come back in oktober to pick it up (figuratively speaking). what I believe is that there's no better soil mix than what nature can produce in healthy and non-cultivated enviroment. there's everything you need there, life and nutrition. if you want or need to add something, there's nothing better than well rotten manure and quality compost for me. for every soild type. this is how I plan the growing. germinate in soil-less medium = local sandy soil. transplanting into bigger pot: local sandy soil with little manure or compost. I will prepare my hole a month before planting (as big and as deep as possible): local soil (sand) + turn around and dig in humus strata of local soil + little well rotten sheep manure + little less rotten donkey manure on top + mulch on the hole. nice and simple.



You are 100% CORRECT!! And to all of the poor misguided folks who believe that chemicals are better, I pose this........If hydroponics rules and is better than nature, then Monsanto is God. NOTHING human kind can come up with will ever even come close to, nevermind surpass, what nature is capable of. It's the height of human arrogance to even think we can improve on what god has provided.


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## Dakota Big Smokin (Feb 12, 2012)

Thanks for all of the great info!!! I am starting my first outdoor this spring, can't wait  organic seems to be the way to go from what I've read.. I will most likely pick up an organic base and mix a very weak recipe to start it off and if I have to feed it seperatly ill order some canna I've also started a compost pile recently for some nice potting soil down the road. Thanks again!!


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## Jack Harer (Feb 12, 2012)

www.espoma.com BioTone Starter Plus. That (I'd add EWC as well, but thats me) and some bone meal will be all you will need. Mix it in at the beginning, and top dress the Bone Meal a couple weeks before they start flowering. Follow the directions, and I assure you you cant go wrong with it!!!


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## mccumcumber (Feb 13, 2012)

EWC make up about 25-35% of my soil finished soil mix. They are probably the most essential compound aside from your base soil.


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## silverpanic99 (Feb 13, 2012)

I am just realizing the benefits of EWC. I never knew they could create such great results. Compost teas of EWC are next on my list of things to try.


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## mcon (Feb 14, 2012)

Fantastic thread! +rep for you bro thanks.


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## Tiami (Feb 14, 2012)

this might sound funny but what's the difference between warm castings and compost?


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## sso (Feb 14, 2012)

sorry if anyone allready added this (didnt bother to read all posts)


keep the soil moist when doing organics, gotta keep the small life alive in the soil.

pretty similar to growing regular flowers in pots, they always grow best when the soil is kept moist. (tad wet )


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## Jack Harer (Feb 14, 2012)

Tiami said:


> this might sound funny but what's the difference between warm castings and compost?



Compost =rotting organic matter
EWC = Worm poop


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## Tiami (Feb 14, 2012)

there's plenty of earth worms in every compost.


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## silverpanic99 (Feb 14, 2012)

Jack Harer said:


> *Compost =rotting organic matter*
> EWC = Worm poop


I think real compost is actually already broken down plant matter with all the goodies (bacteria, fungi, acids, etc.) in there. I do believe that is what I learned in my soils class in college.


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## mccumcumber (Feb 14, 2012)

When you water, water heavy and let the soil get as close to drying out as possible before watering again. A good indicator if you don't have watering down yet is by sticking a finger in the soil deep down to see if it's still moist in the middle of the pot.

The way roots move and grow is by "looking" for moisture. If one area in your pot is more moist than another, the roots will expand in the direction of moisture. When you water, be sure to give the outside of the pot the same amount of attention as you do where the stem is (presumably center).

The amount that you should water is enough to see some run off. Watering less and more often is more detrimental than watering in large amounts less often.

Edit: regular scheduled watering is best of the best way to water.


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## latestsaint (Feb 16, 2012)

mccumcumber said:


> it is available on btjunkie


was available on btjunkie


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## mccumcumber (Feb 16, 2012)

http://torrentz.eu/a26ef4ade2e27f2122066bfea4c3bdf79209a3eb


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## snowboarder396 (Mar 18, 2012)

+REP lots great info for anyone that doesnt understand organics, trying to get into it or just learn more about it. to me organics will always be better then synthetic, pesticides.. why would anyone possibly want any of that in there plants or food is beyond me


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## Jack Harer (Mar 18, 2012)

silverpanic99 said:


> I think real compost is actually already broken down plant matter with all the goodies (bacteria, fungi, acids, etc.) in there. I do believe that is what I learned in my soils class in college.



"Broken down" or rotting. Semantics. Decomposition (or Rotting) is the process of "breaking down" organic matter into it's constituent parts. It's accomplished thru microbial and fungal action. Many other things play a part, but I'm sure you studied that.
Compost is organic matter in_ various stages_ of decomposition, like the humus layer of the soil. Partially broken down leaves and veg matter contribute much to the structure and water retention capability of the soil.


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## Ready2Inhale (Mar 20, 2012)

Power posts in here!


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## georgyboy (Apr 17, 2012)

I have a small compost bin going outside. It's about 3x2x2.5. I've been throwing things in there since late fall. I threw most my raked leaves from the fall, plenty of kitchen scraps, and now my lawn trimmings go in. I'm always adding to it so there is never totally finished compost in it. However some stuff has been in there for over six months. I turn it frequently and I have some pvc pipes with holes drilled in them shoved into the pile. This allows fresh air to reach the center of the pile, discouraging anaerobic activity and promoting fast composting. My question is would it be okay to dig down to the center of the pile and throw some of it in my pots and grow in it. I would mix other stuff in of course. How do I get finished compost out of my bin when I'm constantly adding more matter to it? I think I'm going to start a worm box too, and feed that periodically, which would give my compost more time to break down. I do know that I throw a lot of bell pepper seeds in my compost, and everytime I flip the pile I find what used to be the seedy center of a pepper as a mass of tiny pepper sprouts that germinated in the pile and died due to being buried too deep.


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## mccumcumber (Apr 21, 2012)

In short: use what looks like decomposed matter as a supplement to your soil.

Here's a really helpful guide about composting in general if you have more compost related questions:
http://eartheasy.com/grow_compost.html


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## BearDown! (Apr 24, 2012)

Jack Harer said:


> You are 100% CORRECT!! And to all of the poor misguided folks who believe that chemicals are better, I pose this........If hydroponics rules and is better than nature, then Monsanto is God. NOTHING human kind can come up with will ever even come close to, nevermind surpass, what nature is capable of. It's the height of human arrogance to even think we can improve on what god has provided.



man so true, case in point man made pharmeceuticals...METH is made from pseudofed.... OXYCONTIN is made from heroin.... the friggn "WEED" pill that i cannot remember the name of...lol not the same as weed... $$$ driven and like all the the other prescription drugs on the market to test the worlds guinney pigs... and ADEROL, lifes new RIDILLIN? cmon man, marijuana whether inhaled or eaten has been my medicine for keeping an even keel and i believe because we are connected to the earth and the things it produces...look at what man made oil companys and power plants are doing to the environment...but thats another topic...lol
just saying that its your choice if you want to use something man made for easier results or you want to learn something about biology and heighten your life experience...just don't be so "propaganda" like when you don't agree with someone elses ideas and EXPERIENCES... 

thanks for sharing btw this has been an enlightening thread for me atleast... and you can't please everyone right?


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## Nullis (Apr 25, 2012)

BearDown! said:


> man so true, case in point man made pharmeceuticals...METH is made from pseudofed.... OXYCONTIN is made from heroin.... the friggn "WEED" pill that i cannot remember the name of...lol not the same as weed... $$$ driven and like all the the other prescription drugs on the market to test the worlds guinney pigs... and ADEROL, lifes new RIDILLIN? cmon man, marijuana whether inhaled or eaten has been my medicine for keeping an even keel and i believe because we are connected to the earth and the things it produces...look at what man made oil companys and power plants are doing to the environment...but thats another topic...lol
> just saying that its your choice if you want to use something man made for easier results or you want to learn something about biology and heighten your life experience...just don't be so "propaganda" like when you don't agree with someone elses ideas and EXPERIENCES...
> 
> thanks for sharing btw this has been an enlightening thread for me atleast... and you can't please everyone right?


Ephedrine and pseudoephedrine are naturally occurring substances. Oxycodone is actually synthesized from thebaine, extracted from opium-poppies. Interestingly enough, a molecule of Heroin isn't much more than a suped-up molecule of morphine (a natural component of opium)... featuring two acetyl functional groups (diacetylmorphine) which allow it much better permeability of the blood brain barrier. Once heroin gets inside your brain it becomes morphine once again.

God provided these substances as well. Any 'improvements' we've made upon the molecule are quite insignificant. The latter of them is so good, don't even do it once.


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## OSG (Apr 27, 2012)

mccumcumber said:


> I've seen a whole bunch of threads on here about people complaining that their organic nutes just aren't cutting it, their plant is showing lots of micronute deficiencies, etc etc.
> 
> What should be noted is that fungi and bacteria don't just magically appear, they form as a result of your plant's exudates. That is really important to understand in organic gardening. There is always a balance, and you need to respect that balance. Don't look for quick fixes and miracle solutions in organic gardening, it just won't happen. Be patient and good things will happen. I hope this helps y'all understand some more basics about nutrition.


.
McCumcumber..... I kind of paraphrased your first post, in the quote above, and agree. Most people that aren't familar with organics, don't get the results they're after. Adding beneficial bacteria and fungi, along with NPK food sources and trace minerals (like with Seaweed Meal, Azomite, etc.), makes all the difference. Feed the soil & let it feed the plant.
.
Good products for proper organic goodness, include Root's Oregonism XL, Myco-Magic, Plant Success, and Super Plant Tonic (Ebay). That last one is made by a small company, that also adds beneficials to their regular fertilizers. Giving them a real boost right out of the gate.
.
Other good brands, if you add the beneficials, are Earth Juice, Age Old, and General Organics.
.
Supersoils are great, if given time to properly cure ( I let mine go 3 months, before ever using them.) Provided you add a non or lightly ammended buffer zone between them, and the roots of your new starts, or not long into veg plants, it's all good.
.
Growing organically builds stronger plants, that can resist pests and molds easier. They taste better, IMHO, and can yield gram for gram with chemically grown plants, if done right. Finding exactly what a particular strain wants, and dailing it in, usually takes more than one run. So, I prefer to go light on the feeding the first time I run a new strain, then dail up the feeding slowly over the next few runs. I also never run supersoil, the first time I run a new strain. I prefer to use liquids like Grow It Green & Flower Power, so I can get tighter control of feeding on the first run. IMHO it gives you an advantage, by helping you to gauge a strains feeding preference.
.
Low, Slow & Steady Feeding, makes the best buds..... 
.


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## keefbox420 (May 8, 2012)

nice words my fellow greenthumb


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## WyoGrow (Jun 6, 2012)

My journey into "organic gardening" started producing dependable amazing results as soon as I started to understand that good soil is a living thing. Teaming with life. No life... no plants. If you take care of the soil the plants tend to take care of themselves. Health wise at least. About 95% of peoples early failures in using "organic" soil is because they use dirt that isn't alive yet.

One thing that has really paid off for me is adding my soil amendments like blood, bone, kelp, cotton seed, greensand and rock dust directly to my compost. This tends to make a pretty hot mix though. I run three composts at my home. One pile is composting manure (chicken, horse, goat, sheep, cow & rabbit) that I gather from my animals. One pile is chopped yard trimmings (grass clippings, screened 1/8" minus whole tree mulch, fall leaves, immature weeds, wood ash and green garden trimmings). The last is a compost tumbler used for 100% kitchen waste. I bulk up the kitchen waste with cottonseed hulls and add the amendments to this compost. This is also the compost I make all of my compost teas with as it's the most rich. When I whip up a batch of garden soil I use a 5gal bucket of each type of compost, a 5gal bucket of peat and a 5gal bucket of perlite. This soil is basically ready to use when I mix it because over half of it is already biologically active. If you make your own soil from scratch from bag material you need to hit that stuff with a dose of good tea, cover it with wetted down straw, burlap or a breathable tarp and let that stuff come alive.


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## malignant (Jun 9, 2012)

latestsaint said:


> was available on btjunkie


its ok, were not grammar nazis here, its not politics or t&t here.


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## glassblower3000 (Jun 30, 2012)

great thread!!!! I feel enlightened.


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## Canvas (Jul 13, 2012)

PeyoteReligion said:


> So I run earth juice (not a tea, just mixed into water) in a soiless medium (sunshine#4). My plants absolutely love it. But I've been curious, does a soiless medium still support all the life needed to complete the organic process? The answer clearly has to be yes, because the plants do extremely well.
> 
> Any info on this process when using a soiless peat based medium would be much appreciated. Because from what I understand my sunshine mix is a quasi hydro medium, but reacts a lot like soil.


As far as I can tell, Soil/Hydro is a continuum, from pure laboratory enforced sterile chemicals on a totally inert medium, to outdo guerilla growing.
Most hydro mixes seem to be a hydro base, with some usefull needed organic soil type amendments mixed in; humus, dolomite lime, beneficial microbes etc.
The defining characteristic of soil would seem to be manure, whether of green or animal type, composted or not.
This type of material is commonly very fine, with the water holding and air excluding properties that implies.

I really think you are on to something in your observation, that a basic hydro peat mix is very nearly soil, sack of steer mixed in and you would be all the way there.


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## Kalyx (Jul 17, 2012)

This thread is sweet. Its good to read that others respect their soil microbes and think micro and macro when gardening! Keep on fostering the 'crobes everybody!



> WyoGrow
> One thing that has really paid off for me is adding my soil amendments like blood, bone, kelp, cotton seed, greensand and rock dust directly to my compost. This tends to make a pretty hot mix though. I run three composts at my home. One pile is composting manure (chicken, horse, goat, sheep, cow & rabbit) that I gather from my animals. One pile is chopped yard trimmings (grass clippings, screened 1/8" minus whole tree mulch, fall leaves, immature weeds, wood ash and green garden trimmings). The last is a compost tumbler used for 100% kitchen waste. I bulk up the kitchen waste with cottonseed hulls and add the amendments to this compost. This is also the compost I make all of my compost teas with as it's the most rich​


Sounds like a great system. I sure wish I had space and those types of 'free' inputs close at hand. Cotton is the one thing I'd worry about. The great majority of that crop in the US is uber not organic and heavily sprayed in pesticides. How long does your kitchen waste pile cure before use? I am still hesitant to use the contents of my tumbler indoors due to large #s of unknown larvae doing their thing in there.


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## Joshue (Jul 21, 2012)

That was indeed a very enlightening topic and truly informative, I highly recognize the magnitude of your point of view.


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## Jack Harer (Jul 25, 2012)

glassblower3000 said:


> great thread!!!! I feel enlightened.


Then it was a good thread!!!! OK, a great one!!


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## MysticMorris (Aug 10, 2012)

Thanks for sharing this, I learnt a great deal reading that. One thing I'm sloppy with is nutes so It has increased my understanding of whats going on down there!


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## doogleef (Aug 10, 2012)

Great info. Rep + . Feed your soil and let your soil feed your plants.


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## Grooves (Sep 1, 2012)

Great thread, good info, thanks!

What I would like to ask, is how does top dressing dry amendments work...

and how well does it work as a fert regime?

Thanks again...

Grooves.

~


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## blueJ (Sep 1, 2012)

Assuming you're topdressing onto a living soil:

1. as you water, the top dressing material seeps into the soil and the bacteria/soil critters break it down making it available to the plant
2. it will work as nute regimen _alongside_ a fully amended soil mix or an organic feeding schedule (teas/nutes, whatever), for example, if you're in a "water only" mix and you know you could use some extra N during flower, you can top dress with a high N input so it can slowly become available through flowering.


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## sm00thslp (Sep 4, 2012)

Read a post on page 4 about chemicals being the way to go is what I took from it (that's what it said for the most part).

organics is more about the earth and allowing it to keep stabalized even after the grow of whatever your growing. Your chemicals are fucking it all up. Vietnam my friend. India. Fucked.

On Pesticides, why do you think it says not to spread near drainage, pipes, etc.? Cause it will fuck shit up. Don't see anything on something TRUELY organic that says harmful to pets, plumbing, or will eat your fucking foot off do you?

I'm a roll today! Assholing(PSS) cause I'm a man baby!

PS: Thanks for the post! I finally got a copy of "Teaming with Microbes" earlier today, but have yet to open it. Still enjoying readying about others mixes, ideas, etc..

PSS: Don't steal my new word!


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## mokhope31 (Sep 13, 2012)

*How exactly are nutrients absorbed through the rhizosphere? The rhizosphere refers to the area around the roots of a plant. Your roots are covered with hydrogen, a cation, which they exchange for other cations as well as attract anions. This is basic chemistry. I learned a lot from your hints thanks much!
*


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## OSG (Sep 16, 2012)

^^ easiest way I know to get your Rhizoshere a jumping, is to use Super Plant Tonic from BMO. It's full of beneficial bacteria & fungi, that Mary really loves. It's like the best compost tea you've ever made (in a concentrated form), with a side of EWC & a twist of Azomite. 
.
Started during veg, and used half way through flowering, you can easily add 10 to 15 % to you final yield, and end up with frosty ladies like this.....
.
.





.
.


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## Earliss (Oct 4, 2012)

That was a good read..


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## farmit420 (Oct 24, 2012)

good stuff bro! thx


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## farmit420 (Oct 24, 2012)

frosty stink nugget bro! awesome trichomes look like they are jumping off the plant man...


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## farmit420 (Oct 24, 2012)

well put bro... dead on about that dude


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## farmit420 (Oct 24, 2012)

well said man! nothing beats or can get better than the all natural earth... you cant improve on perfection


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## farmit420 (Oct 24, 2012)

thanks for the DL http good looking out man! love all the info. its like your kids... you want to know everything about everything so you can do the best for them as possible bro... thx again keep the info flowin and the green blowin!!! peace one


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## lowblower (Jan 24, 2013)

Interesting read, thanks for that its opened my eyes a bit more. I have a question; Using chemical ferts in an organic set up will kill the beneficial soil bacteria, and therefore stopping the breakdown of organic molecules into 'anions': is that example for someone using a mostly chemical fertilizer to feed an apparantly 'organic live soil' crop ONLY, or will using pk13/14 (only 1.5-2ml/gal for the mid 3 weeks of flowering) _alongside_ 5ml/gal each of grow and bloom natural (humboldt nutes), organic molasses (1tbs/gal) and soil bacteria (mycomadness from hummboldt nutes) be enough to dissolve pk13/14's bactericidal potency?? Is it only bactericidal because it is low in pH (and i could pH balance it)? Or because it is a 'salt' form, or something?? THanks for the help


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## hairbear (Jan 25, 2013)

good bugs kill the bad bugs but the bad fuckers killed all my plants


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## Me & My friend (Jan 29, 2013)

Yatahey!!

Your thread completes the great circle of life!

Great Info!!!


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## pabuds (Feb 1, 2013)

super plant tonic from bmo is great one of the best i ever used


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## dababydroman (May 6, 2013)

I recycle my soil everytime.. feeding it kitchen scraps over the winter.. I throw some natural top soil and clay in it from my ecosystem.. its like we are all growing soil.. and its very interesting.. and very simple if you ask me. some people don't even want the odd leaf in there soil mix? whats up with that? I chunk sticks leaves and all in there and do great. recently I threw a bunch of clay and stuff on top of a pot that im reveging in and a whole ant pile decided to move in. I have to believe that means I have healthy soil? lol now im just wondering what it will do in the long run, but they break down insects and all kinds of stuff? and aerate the soil so I have to think there almost beneficial


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## kindnug (May 6, 2013)

Ant's aren't good for roots, atleast IME.
I've had 8 ft. plants wilt+die from ants demolishing the root system.


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## cues (May 6, 2013)

The other problem with ants is that they tend to 'farm' aphids. You may see them killing the aphids and think they're helping. They aren't.


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## dababydroman (May 6, 2013)

ok ill keep that in mind.. im pretty sure i solved the problem without having to use and chemicals.. lucky it was just a two gallon pot or so, so i put in a bird bath. to where there is a "moat" around the pot.. no way for them to get food or do anything. and took all the clay off the top of the soil witch seems to be what attracted them.


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## Jack Harer (May 6, 2013)

That clay was a good idea! Adding clay boosts the CEC of the soil, and increases the availability of nutes.


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## dababydroman (May 6, 2013)

yea I figured it had to have something good in it, beneficial microbes or something. since its been doing its thing...since.. for eternity..


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## hightide671 (May 7, 2013)

wow. makes me want to buy and read the book today. 
definately want to try making my own soil science. great info!


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## cues (May 7, 2013)

Yep, clay has the highest cation exchange capacity of any soils. Most people have a simplified idea of it (sandy soils drain and leach nutrients faster) which, although incorrect is actually a good way of looking at it IMO. Then again, it goes WAY deeper. For example, is kalonitic clay (I think of it as porcelain clay) the same as illicit clay (I think of as slimy mud) in terms of cec?
Hydroton (expanded clay) has little cec (learnt on here through similar discussion).
My point is, unless you are forced into working with a specific soil type, It's best to look at soils holistically.


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## dababydroman (May 9, 2013)

not to be rude but y our post is very hard to understand. what are you saying?


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## cues (May 11, 2013)

I'm saying it's best to look at the soil 'as a whole' instead of worrying about CEC of clay etc. Even very heavy clay soils that appear like almost pure clay are rarely more than 35% clay in reality. P.s. Sorry for over-complicating. I spent too long in Uni studying sports turf science.


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## dababydroman (May 13, 2013)

yea.. well there is obvious layers of soil here.. the black top soils only a few inches deep then it goes to like a tannish clay to a more red almost marbleized looking clay. but in my climate we have 100 degree plus temps and if your a lil late on watering it can take a big told on the plant. so I threw basically clay chunks in with my soil to soak up and hold water basically. as faras im concerned it worked lol. iv mixedalot of shit with my recycled fox farm. like top soil, abandoned ant piles, clay, a dead fish. occasional fruit scrap or something. it looks like a rather healthy soil if I must say so myself.


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## skem64 (May 24, 2013)

I have an organic compost heap that's about 4yrs old. Garden waste (grass cuttings, nettles, leaves etc..), kitchen waste, tea bags, veg peelings (no potatoes!) egg shells and about 4 banana skins a week. One top of all that, I've added the leaves, stems and roots of about 6 mj plants. It is well rotted and siffs like sugar through your fingers, quite dark and light (weight-wise).

I really want to use it (not just because I could do with the space...) but because I imagine it to be filled with nutrients, bacteria and fungi though re: fungi, I don't see any fluffy bits like mold). Anyway, will this be a good mix to use with my next crop. If so, should I use it neat or mixed by ratio with Coco or something similar? I suppose I could experiment but I'd hate to see a plant not grow and I don't want to take chances. So guys, should I risk it?


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## AliCakes (Jun 13, 2013)

skem64 said:


> I have an organic compost heap that's about 4yrs old. Garden waste (grass cuttings, nettles, leaves etc..), kitchen waste, tea bags, veg peelings (no potatoes!) egg shells and about 4 banana skins a week. One top of all that, I've added the leaves, stems and roots of about 6 mj plants. It is well rotted and siffs like sugar through your fingers, quite dark and light (weight-wise).
> 
> I really want to use it (not just because I could do with the space...) but because I imagine it to be filled with nutrients, bacteria and fungi though re: fungi, I don't see any fluffy bits like mold). Anyway, will this be a good mix to use with my next crop. If so, should I use it neat or mixed by ratio with Coco or something similar? I suppose I could experiment but I'd hate to see a plant not grow and I don't want to take chances. So guys, should I risk it?


I don't think I could have left that gold mine alone for 4 years. Use it. I generally keep the organics (compost/manure) to about 50% of my soil mixture, but a well aged pile like the one you mentioned can be used on it's own to grow very healthy plants. While his mix is a bit over simplified for my taste, Mel Bartholomew has been traveling to third world countries for decades teaching people to grow their own food using nothing but compost as the soil media and his results speak for themselves.

+rep for the OP. This has to be the best description of basic soil biology on RIU. Thank you.


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## JackandJill (Sep 3, 2013)

I'm getting ready to expand the garden in the backyard. I'm planning on using a method called "sheet mulching" to start the garden. Sheet mulching can be a lengthy process on its own, but you can add compost/mulch as a final top layer and plant immediately. This will be my first grow for MJ but its only a small part of my garden, It should blend nicely with the Tomatoes, Kohlrabi, and Rabe. If my garden is able to support a vibrant growth of the rest of my garden, I shouldn't run into MJ problems right? My brother told me... its a weed!


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## Big/smoke (Sep 12, 2013)

You should be ok don't plant them too close together though they like their space and being your first grow just do a lot of reading I was about toile a post on helping out organic growers if the plant goes into a deficiency stage in the things you can use in your house that most growers know about some I didn't know for a few years until reading like putting galvanized nail in your garden


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## sadj (Sep 21, 2013)

skem64 said:


> I have an organic compost heap that's about 4yrs old. Garden waste (grass cuttings, nettles, leaves etc..), kitchen waste, tea bags, veg peelings (no potatoes!) egg shells and about 4 banana skins a week. One top of all that, I've added the leaves, stems and roots of about 6 mj plants. It is well rotted and siffs like sugar through your fingers, quite dark and light (weight-wise).
> 
> I really want to use it (not just because I could do with the space...) but because I imagine it to be filled with nutrients, bacteria and fungi though re: fungi, I don't see any fluffy bits like mold). Anyway, will this be a good mix to use with my next crop. If so, should I use it neat or mixed by ratio with Coco or something similar? I suppose I could experiment but I'd hate to see a plant not grow and I don't want to take chances. So guys, should I risk it?


why no potatoes? and personal i never use banana peels as i have been told the skin has arsnic in it. i only use banana in my compost for flowers.


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## Greensome (Oct 2, 2013)

Forgive me if this was covered, but I think it's pointless to talk about organics without talking about myocorrhizae. If you're using organic, non-mineral based nutes, I can't see trying to grow without myocorrhizae.


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## Herb Man (Oct 15, 2013)

Very nice post/thread.



Greensome said:


> Forgive me if this was covered, but I think it's pointless to talk about organics without talking about myocorrhizae. If you're using organic, non-mineral based nutes, I can't see trying to grow without myocorrhizae.


Could you expand on this?


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## lightcollection2013 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi Im going to be using the General Organic line with The House of gardens Root excellerent and liquid Karma. 

12 PLANTS LEGAL LIMIT

For soilless I'm thinking of going with PRO-MIX BX BIOFUNGICIDE+MYCORRHIZAE..

Im wondering if this sound fine for my plants or if anyone has any recommendations. 

I wanna do a 10 week veg cycle (I want big Plants. 
WATER, FEED, WATER going to WATER, FEED, FEED

SOLO CUPS FOR 2 WEEKS FLORESENT LIGHTING(I got plants in solo cups)

1 GALLON FOR 3WEEKS UNDER A 400 WATT MHPRO-MIX BX BIOFUNGICIDE+MYCORRHIZAE

BEFORE GOING INTO A 7 GALLON FOR 5 WEEKS UNDER (2) 1000 watt mh.
I wanna line the bottom 2 inches of the the pots with something maybe sterile rocks for aeration open to recommendations.


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## Becorath (Oct 19, 2013)

Greensome said:


> Forgive me if this was covered, but I think it's pointless to talk about organics without talking about myocorrhizae. If you're using organic, non-mineral based nutes, I can't see trying to grow without myocorrhizae.


The original post mentioned bacteria and fungi. The fungi is the myco you speak of. Over time it will establish itself, but adding it will speed up the colonizatin process.


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## *Vegeta (Oct 21, 2013)

Very good info !


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## SpicySativa (Oct 25, 2013)

Becorath said:


> The original post mentioned bacteria and fungi. The fungi is the myco you speak of. Over time it will establish itself, but adding it will speed up the colonizatin process.


Kindof ^. The fungi that break down organic matter in a compost heap or a tub of "cooking" soil are not mycorrhizal. Helpful, yes. But very different from actual "myco" fungi, which won't even start growing unless they are in contact with a live plant root (they live off exudatesf produced by the plant).


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## Becorath (Nov 7, 2013)

SpicySativa said:


> Kindof ^. The fungi that break down organic matter in a compost heap or a tub of "cooking" soil are not mycorrhizal. Helpful, yes. But very different from actual "myco" fungi, which won't even start growing unless they are in contact with a live plant root (they live off exudatesf produced by the plant).


That is correct, but I believe the OP was referring to the fungi living in the soil around the plants' roots.




Fungi and Bacteria are the two primary "workers" for providing nutrition to your plant. Fungi, though much smaller than bacteria individually, form long sort of "tunnels" from your plant's rhizosphere to nutrition found in nearby soil. Fungi are special in that they can break down "harder" materials and bring nutrition through their tunneling systems. They then either keep the nutrients until they die and then exude the nutrition into back into the soil in a plant or bacterial edible form. As said before, fungi break down hard materials, like bones, phosphorous, copper, zinc, etc. As you can probably now tell, fungi are very important. It is also important to note that the best defense against harmful fungi is beneficial fungi. Beneficial fungi out compete harmful fungi every time.​


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## dannyboy602 (Dec 3, 2013)

great source of soil biology here. it only took me a couple years to find and only 4 billion years to create.


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## RAWise (Dec 15, 2013)

Why would you not use your compost after all that is the purpose of having the pile. Mother nature is a genius when it comes to gardening, let her do her thing she will not fail. My opinion is keep it simple, no need to go all "Lab Tech". 

Sent from my M886 using Rollitup mobile app


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## Organic Toker (Jan 2, 2014)

Hats Off to Cucumber 

It is really hard to make people aware and to explain how microbes work to improve plant health. I have been trying to create awareness about organic farming and I will surely be following the simplicity you used in this beautiful post. 

You should keep expanding horizons too, various updates in organic growing are there. I would love to contribute too.

+Rep for the post.

Happy New Year to you!! Guys like you make the stay in RIU worthwhile.


Peace and Love,

Toker.


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## Keif Cheif (Jan 6, 2014)

I'm not sure why everyone is out there looking for the best solutions for building their soil, and looking for the best combination of organic amendments. Why wouldn't you want to take the work out of it and go with a pre-mixed bag that comes from a quality company. Not the Foxfarm, Botanicare blends, etc., but go for a much higher quality mix. As long as you start with a good mix with good drainage, even if you dont have food into it already, this is all you need to start with.

Then you need a fully enzymatically digested organic nutrient so that it is IMMEDIATELY available to the plants. The line that myself and my crew have been using for years has been the Nectar for the Gods. I have been getting consistent results that rival the output of synthetics. We were turned onto this stuff by the owner of the company, and now we by it from the Monster Gardens store in northern California. Highly recommend this line over any other organics that I have come across

Best quality out of anything on the market, fully broken down and made with organic chelates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BjbW2KPbTw


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## foreverflyhi (Jan 9, 2014)

^^^ maybe best quality on the capitalist market. For sure not the best quality mother earth has to offer


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## Thc247 (Jan 11, 2014)

is this the same book 

http://ge.tt/9LYCbnC/v/1


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## Organix420 (Jan 11, 2014)

Thanks Cucumber - well said.


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## Chappie (Feb 16, 2014)

Keif Cheif said:


> Why wouldn't you want to take the work out of it and go with a pre-mixed bag that comes from a quality company. Not the Foxfarm, Botanicare blends, etc., but go for a much higher quality mix.


Same reason I would rather cook a curry from scratch than buy even the best jarred or canned stuff. There is no contest. There are some pretty good bagged products out there (like Bu's Blend, Oly Fish Compost, etc) but these are still just ingredients for a supreme soil.

If you like buying something and rolling with it, go for it. 

But those who truly educate themselves to learn to prepare their own, ideally from local materials, will have a much more solid product in every regard. Creating a medium is empowering in a way that purchasing a solution cannot touch. The satisfaction of knowing exactly what every single ingredient in the soil that produced your herb is priceless. 

Next time you share with a friend and they say "you grew this??" you can say "well, I made the soil, the plant kindof grew itself".


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## snowboarder396 (Feb 16, 2014)

Good stuff bud, points out a lot of good information for those just getting into organics. Also if rec. Teaming with microbes for those wanting to learn more about it. Very helpful. Im currently back in school for viticulture and enokogt (winemaking) and I've been taking classes like horticulture, soil science etc. That have help further my knowledge of plants and what they need. Keep up the good information


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## keysareme (Jun 1, 2014)

What are you thoughts on Dr. Earths Soils? (A friend introduced them to me, I wanted to ask what you felt)


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## High_Haze (Aug 12, 2014)

mccumcumber said:


> I personally would use lady bugs or dragon flies over neem oil. You can buy lady bugs at most if not all organic sores.
> 
> If you only have access to neem don't worry too much, it will kill some of your microbiology, but not too significant of an amount.


Agreed I always use lady bugs with great results

Neem oil is cool but it clogs the pores on the plant and the girls dont like it.


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## This Hidden Creature (Aug 14, 2014)

Teaming with microbes has turned to be my new organic bible, they cover the whole process.
thank you all for sharing such knowledge.


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## DonTesla (Nov 29, 2014)

f*ck yea, Its a great read, like magic school bus for organic growers, and can be found online and on RIU as a pdf..
teaming with nutrients is the follow up book and is even easier to read and better organized.. must haves


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## coolupdscene (Feb 3, 2015)

MalcolmMustang said:


> is neemcake bad for your soil web? I know that neem is a fungicide and mycorrhizae are fungi. I was thinking of amending with neem cake this time around because of gnats.


Not exactly necessary, you can foliar neem until you see buds, AO's fish and seaweed with some humic and b1 in there with bronners tea tree soap too will boost your plants and keep em healthy, do this every 2 days in veg and you will never need to worry about mites i never get em because im oreventative


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## coolupdscene (Feb 3, 2015)

coolupdscene said:


> Not exactly necessary, you can foliar neem until you see buds, AO's fish and seaweed with some humic and b1 in there with bronners tea tree soap too will boost your plants and keep em healthy, do this every 2 days in veg and you will never need to worry about mites i never get em because im *preventative


Use muquito dunk cakes in your water for the plants instead... Ladybugs in flower tho u may have to keep putting more in the room since they might die or escape in the ventilation.


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## coolupdscene (Feb 3, 2015)

coolupdscene said:


> Use muquito dunk cakes in your water for the plants instead... Ladybugs in flower tho u may have to keep putting more in the room since they might die or escape in the ventilation.


Also, when doing foliar with ferts like neem etc... U can just spray the topsoil before you hit the plants... Then right after you foliar water with plain water always and make sure lighting is dimmed to the lowest or even off until plants dry..thats key with good foliar practice.. Alway do your foliar at the beginning of their day so they can get back on track by the end of the day and clean your room so there is no stagnant or sitting water ever that alone can stop bug problems... My motto and you may hear about in the commercial industry... ACE it... Always check everything Always clean everything. Bless


----------



## TerrapinFlower (Jun 13, 2015)

All of your information is so extensive thank you so much; you literally answered every question I had about the actual process the soil goes through. Your details were perfect explaining the roles of the different bacteria and in your edit/ add- on about helpful and harmful fungi. I really need to get that book! So grateful I found your post; thank you for your time and detailed explanations!


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## Rotweiller (Jul 25, 2015)

Hi Guy's
Having read the last 7 pages i found this to be a pretty good learning curve but when i tried to click on one of the links it said the page had gone  Soooo....
Here's the TPB torrent link to the updated 2010 version. It only took around 3 Seconds to download but only has 3 seeders so get it quick while you can 
Jeff Lowenfels, Wayne Lewis, "Teaming with Microbes: The Organic Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web, Revised Edition"
ISBN: 1604691131 | 2010 | EPUB
https://thepiratebay.gd/torrent/8261835/Teaming_with_Microbes__The_Organic_Gardener_s_Guide_

And here is the Magnet link to download directly to Torrent...
magnetxt=urn:btih:fb4482b8a6dfbc39c872c5c7c2ca55e5579dd998&dn=Teaming+with+Microbes%3A+The+Organic+Gardener%27s+Guide+&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fopen.demonii.com%3A1337&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.coppersurfer.tk%3A6969&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fexodus.desync.com%3A6969

Please Dont forget to use a Good VPN so you don't get cought out by your ISP.
There's plenty of Free one's out there or use Cyberghost like i have for years


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## midiot (Jan 25, 2016)

Back in the day (1980's) my friends in Humbolt CA always grew organic, and outdoors, in ground.. 10ft high plants...massive yields. Lots of rabbit poo.
These days, with indoor containers......I believe soil testing would help a lot, for NPK levels.
It's easy to become too nitrogen rich, and if wanting to change these ratios during flowering, takes planning and forethought.
Flushing the organic soil with water may seem counter productive, but it can refresh the soil, and help any new organic nutriment amendments, take effect.


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## cannakis (Feb 10, 2016)

Izoc666 said:


> good info !! +rep for ya
> 
> 666


So why do you sign as the beast? If it's (the bible GOD etc) all fake why support the "fake" beast. And if it Is real, which it is, why support the beast? For you know where the mark of the beast comes from, it Also declares that he will be cast into the lake of fire for all eternity.

So if it's fake why focus on childish fables? If it's Real, why worship death and destruction. Satan comes to Only Steal, Kill, and Destroy. He deceives. JESUS CHRIST Loves All and condemns none, and THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH WHO Guides us into All Truth.

Peace and Love Brother.
Just think, if it's all fake then why am I focused on a part of the fable? Let it all go... But it's because deep down we Know there's more to what meets the eye.


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## greasemonkeymann (Feb 10, 2016)

cannakis said:


> So why do you sign as the beast? If it's (the bible GOD etc) all fake why support the "fake" beast. And if it Is real, which it is, why support the beast? For you know where the mark of the beast comes from, it Also declares that he will be cast into the lake of fire for all eternity.
> 
> So if it's fake why focus on childish fables? If it's Real, why worship death and destruction. Satan comes to Only Steal, Kill, and Destroy. He deceives. JESUS CHRIST Loves All and condemns none, and THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH WHO Guides us into All Truth.
> 
> ...


this should be a PM man..
religion has no place here.
And since jesus Christ, the holy spirit, and god are all one (as a fable anyways), I beg to disagree on the statement that he "loves all and condemns none"
The many, many stories in the bible contradict that clearly.
either way, religious arguments belong in different areas for this...
It's a sticky...


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## oldbikepunk (Mar 11, 2016)

If you believe in god, then consequently you must also believe in the devil. So, if you're worshipping god, you are also given a nod to the devil existing...therefore you believe in Satan.


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## oldbikepunk (Mar 11, 2016)

And, if you believe in Satan it honestly doesn't matter. It's like believing in god. Pray all day and see what happens. Same as if you did not pray. God helps those who help themselves. If you don't help yourself, your family, and your friends then God isn't going to help you out of your problems. Being a good person and living right is it's own reward. Heaven is on earth and Hell doesn't exist.


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## oldbikepunk (Mar 11, 2016)

Religion belongs in your mind and in church. Keep it off our weed growing sites. Jesus. (that's good humor..ps i was raised a Catholic and my three kids are raised heathen.


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## oldbikepunk (Mar 11, 2016)

DonTesla said:


> f*ck yea, Its a great read, like magic school bus for organic growers, and can be found online and on RIU as a pdf..
> teaming with nutrients is the follow up book and is even easier to read and better organized.. must haves


pps.,. I like your Devil pic. Don't ever change, man!


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## Dear ol" Thankful Grower! (Mar 13, 2016)

Good info on here!


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## shaft09 (Mar 23, 2016)

mccumcumber said:


> In short: use what looks like decomposed matter as a supplement to your soil.
> 
> Here's a really helpful guide about composting in general if you have more compost related questions:
> http://eartheasy.com/grow_compost.html


That was a really useful link. Thanks!


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## Howard i know (Apr 17, 2016)

Have been reading a bit further on bio-dynamics and question whether it really is so bad to supplement organics with some salt based ferts. The guys who I'm following in the high brix gardening places seem to think its OK to bring a soil into line/rebalance and in some cases to counter overexuberant use of compost by some organic purists. The thing I am beginning to understand is that the ratios (or balance) of minerals is more important than the absolute numbers (to a point). Mind you they could be wrong!


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## Woyaboy (Jun 25, 2016)

NightbirdX said:


> That was a quick sticky, and a quick, but informative, read.


I call "quick sticky" as a band name!


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## JohnMotayo (Jun 26, 2016)

Of course organic is a lot more challenging, but I figure at the end of the grow it's a whole lot more beneficial no matter what you're growing. If you take all those extra steps to get only the best that nature has to offer, it will definitely turn out way better! Thanks for sharing this detailed information!


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## Mr. Krinkle (Jul 22, 2016)

coolupdscene said:


> Also, when doing foliar with ferts like neem etc... U can just spray the topsoil before you hit the plants... Then right after you foliar water with plain water always and make sure lighting is dimmed to the lowest or even off until plants dry..thats key with good foliar practice.. Alway do your foliar at the beginning of their day so they can get back on track by the end of the day and clean your room so there is no stagnant or sitting water ever that alone can stop bug problems... My motto and you may hear about in the commercial industry... ACE it... Always check everything Always clean everything. Bless



have you ever tried out the vital fish powder? used to be called "ocean grown" by the same guys that make the insect frass - it kicks ass - it also has BT in it


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## Joomby (Feb 5, 2017)

mccumcumber said:


> When you water, water heavy and let the soil get as close to drying out as possible before watering again. A good indicator if you don't have watering down yet is by sticking a finger in the soil deep down to see if it's still moist in the middle of the pot.
> 
> The way roots move and grow is by "looking" for moisture. If one area in your pot is more moist than another, the roots will expand in the direction of moisture. When you water, be sure to give the outside of the pot the same amount of attention as you do where the stem is (presumably center).
> 
> ...


Yes! I had to learn this with tomatoes. Everytime I took a walk in my garden I would turn the hose on and give them a drink.i thought that the plants would love me for it but in the end I was just killing them with kindness


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## Joomby (Feb 5, 2017)

cannakis said:


> So why do you sign as the beast? If it's (the bible GOD etc) all fake why support the "fake" beast. And if it Is real, which it is, why support the beast? For you know where the mark of the beast comes from, it Also declares that he will be cast into the lake of fire for all eternity.
> 
> So if it's fake why focus on childish fables? If it's Real, why worship death and destruction. Satan comes to Only Steal, Kill, and Destroy. He deceives. JESUS CHRIST Loves All and condemns none, and THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH WHO Guides us into All Truth.
> 
> ...


The religion of Satan Has contributed to the least amount of religious deaths/murders! So if you think about it Satan worship is the nicest religion and let's face it he is god's rival, brother and blood,dont hate him because he's red and scary that's just racist


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## cannakis (Feb 12, 2017)

Joomby said:


> The religion of Satan Has contributed to the least amount of religious deaths/murders! So if you think about it Satan worship is the nicest religion and let's face it he is god's rival, brother and blood,dont hate him because he's red and scary that's just racist


Has it? The Religion of Satan teaches pedophilia and murder of innocence, to deceive and lie. The "religion of satan" has only been around since the 60s "officially", and Roman Catholicism has killed more True Servants of JESUS CHRIST than any other religion or people I believe. But that's the difference, The True Religion of JESUS CHRIST is True Love, Mercy, and Life for All no matter what, to give your life for All Others even your enemies, not condemnation which is what most "churches" preach. The True Religion of satan (not the politically correct "luciferianism", which Albert Pike was a defendant of the "institution of slavery", Aleister Crowley wrote in his "book of magic" directions for pedophilia to obtain their "energy", The Child's Innocence. FUCKING SICK!) but the Religion of satan is that of Theivery, Murder, and Death; satan is the father of lies. The Religion of satan has been All the Murderous religions that have existed during Every Age and within Every Culture, remember even JESUS'S own people murdered HIM. Haha and it's not racist, and they're not brothers, GOD created satan as an Angel of Light but he was rebellious and wished to be greater than GOD so he was cast to the earth, or as luciferianism teaches satan was trying give us the light but "evil" GOD wouldn't let him, and so there's been a war for Knowledge ever since... or is that all a lie?!?! Just saying, read "The Gospel of JESUS CHRIST according to John" (The Book of John) and see for yourself what JESUS CHRIST teaches. Not what Catholicism teaches, or Mormonism, or any other sect or religion. JESUS CHRIST is the True Religion of Love and Mercy for all. Don't be deceived, read for yourself. Because hey that's why satan gave his life for you, to expand your knowledge. Right?


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## cannakis (Feb 12, 2017)

greasemonkeymann said:


> this should be a PM man..
> religion has no place here.
> And since jesus Christ, the holy spirit, and god are all one (as a fable anyways), I beg to disagree on the statement that he "loves all and condemns none"
> The many, many stories in the bible contradict that clearly.
> ...


in the Old Testament definitely, but that's the thing JESUS CHRIST fulfilled the law (the condemnation) and said HE doesn't condemn anyone Moses did that. Like I said Read, don't be deceived.


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## Dmannn (Mar 8, 2018)

I haven’t read the whole threaf but “fresh” or “wet” manure or amendments may create heat when they begins to dry out. This is what “organic burn” comes from. The roots are cooking as the organic matter heats up because of decomposition, stunting or killing a plant.


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## RetiredGuerilla (Apr 3, 2018)

mccumcumber said:


> I've seen a whole bunch of threads on here about people complaining that their organic nutes just aren't cutting it, their plant is showing lots of micronute deficiencies, etc etc.
> 
> What people need to understand is that when they grow "organic" it is a process. I'll explain how plants get nutrition from the soil, and then it will become pretty damn obvious why your plants aren't really getting the "love" that they need.
> 
> ...


 Organic teas have nutrition that is immediately available. When watered into the root zone or by foliar feeding. It depends on what you use and how. I mix guano teas about 12 hours before I use them. And shake my jugs vigorously several times. Worm castings, fish emulsion and kelp work very fast. Urine is dissolved nitrogen and immediately available. Some amendments break down faster than others. Blood meal breaks down much faster than bone meal. Etc


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## MichiganMedGrower (Apr 3, 2018)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> Organic teas have nutrition that is immediately available. When watered into the root zone or by foliar feeding. It depends on what you use and how. I mix guano teas about 12 hours before I use them. And shake my jugs vigorously several times. Worm castings, fish emulsion and kelp work very fast. Urine is dissolved nitrogen and immediately available. Some amendments break down faster than others. Blood meal breaks down much faster than bone meal. Etc



Do you know you are replying to a comment from 2012?

And since cry baby buck got me banned from his racist who works harder thread I want to answer you here while I got you. 

You said you saw my set up and I get carpet fibers in my flowers. 

Why would there be carpet fibers in my flowers?


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## RetiredGuerilla (Apr 3, 2018)

I would clue you in but you been a dick. Sorry can't and won't help you.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Apr 3, 2018)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> I would clue you in but you been a dick. Sorry can't and won't help you.




Lol. You had it right the first half of the sentence. You can’t help me. You don’t have a basic grasp of logic to even get started. 

And you cast the first insults. I only argued your silly bullshit with facts. You couldn’t handle reason.


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## RetiredGuerilla (Apr 3, 2018)

Do you enjoy smoking synthetic carcinogen laden carpet fibers? Evidently because I saw your setup. I feel sorry for anyone who relies on you for their meds. I could tell you how to have pure and clean flowers. But why would you be interested in anything I have to say? I'm just a retarded flat earth guy.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Apr 3, 2018)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> Do you enjoy smoking synthetic carcinogen laden carpet fibers? Evidently because I saw your setup. I feel sorry for anyone who relies on you for their meds. I could tell you how to have pure and clean flowers. But why would you be interested in anything I have to say? I'm just a retarded flat earth guy.



Dude no carpet fibers get anywhere near my flowers. 

I am not allowed from current regulations but I had a contract with a dispensary for a couple years. Every batch was lab tested. 

I post my plants here regularly. No one has ever said such a thing. And now 3 patients are showing improvement from lifelong disease or trauma from our meds. 

And you grow outside. Not clean.


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 5, 2018)

mccumcumber said:


> Advanced Nutrients is a joke, their nutes are lacking and they claim to be organic (kind of funny how you're knocking organics and mention that brand) but they're not. Go with Canna if you're going synthetic. I mentioned that there is nothing wrong with growing synthetically, organics are just cheaper, and way less of a hassle. I mix up my soil and let it sit for a month - 2 months, then put in my 2-3 week old plant and just use plain water throughout harvest. Pretty simple. This is the organics section, so I'd be careful about telling people to grow "real buds" here, you'll probably get flamed. Also, you should check out Humboldt Local, he's all organic outdoor (like myself) and his results are better than any synthetic results I've seen. I've done the whole aeroponics thing and I have a lot of friends on the hydro hype... yeah it looks really good, but I get higher off of my soil grown. And I have no idea where you get this taste and aroma notion from... Have you ever grown organically?


I'm going to try this out... what is the recipe


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## Dmannn (Apr 5, 2018)

Frank Nitty said:


> I'm going to try this out... what is the recipe


You can literally scroll down the previous page and find a dozen soil and AACT recipes that will satisfy any base soil you use, even soilless like coco fiber eat. give it a try bud. I have always grown "organic", never ever had any "fake" buds or ANYONE say any of it tasted terrible/no good/like hay. Pick up any "medical" pot in C.A. and IMO and it tastes/smells like perfume garbage. Now that opinion comes from a place where Pot CAN help some pretty sick people (immune deficiencies, bowl problems, psychological issues) the problem with the "medical clubs" like harbor side and whatever braided hair top hat wearing weirdo asswhipe making millions off of these really sick people. They only accept indoor synthetic "brands" of pot. Buy for pennies on the pound and turn around and jack the fuck out of the prices, skirt tax law and drive lambos. so fuck all those fake assed bitches and there synthetic get rich quick off the dead and dying. Fucking asswhipes should be investigated AGAIN and sent to prison for profiteering off of the hurt. Now a lot of people have bull shit prop215 card and shame on them too. And shame on CA for withholding our 9th AND 10th amendment from us. Nazis, did you see the last election? ONE party represented, just like North Korea.


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 5, 2018)

Dmannn said:


> You can literally scroll down the previous page and find a dozen soil and AACT recipes that will satisfy any base soil you use, even soilless like coco fiber eat. give it a try bud. I have always grown "organic", never ever had any "fake" buds or ANYONE say any of it tasted terrible/no good/like hay. Pick up any "medical" pot in C.A. and IMO and it tastes/smells like perfume garbage. Now that opinion comes from a place where Pot CAN help some pretty sick people (immune deficiencies, bowl problems, psychological issues) the problem with the "medical clubs" like harbor side and whatever braided hair top hat wearing weirdo asswhipe making millions off of these really sick people. They only accept indoor synthetic "brands" of pot. Buy for pennies on the pound and turn around and jack the fuck out of the prices, skirt tax law and drive lambos. so fuck all those fake assed bitches and there synthetic get rich quick off the dead and dying. Fucking asswhipes should be investigated AGAIN and sent to prison for profiteering off of the hurt. Now a lot of people have bull shit prop215 card and shame on them too. And shame on CA for withholding our 9th AND 10th amendment from us. Nazis, did you see the last election? ONE party represented, just like North Korea.


So you mean to tell me that they won't take organic grown weed? WOW!!! Unbelievable... Like I said before, all that glitters ain't gold. At least not for everyone. I'm not going to say that I can't believe that they would do something like that because I can, I just can't believe that the people would go for it. I'm in total agreement with you on this and I'm not even from out there!!!


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## Dmannn (Apr 5, 2018)

Frank Nitty said:


> So you mean to tell me that they won't take organic grown weed? WOW!!! Unbelievable... Like I said before, all that glitters ain't gold. At least not for everyone. I'm not going to say that I can't believe that they would do something like that because I can, I just can't believe that the people would go for it. I'm in total agreement with you on this and I'm not even from out there!!!


Organic Weed takes bugs/needs bugs/bacteria and other living things to grow. According to these "experts" (millionaires) "their sick people" need the "cleanest weed" and anything "living is a detriment to the sick patients"

yeah like a parasite sucking sick person's bank account dry.

Clown asses, all of them. Don't feel bad for the "raids," they earned them.


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 5, 2018)

Dmannn said:


> Organic Weed takes bugs/needs bugs/bacteria and other living things to grow. According to these "experts" (millionaires) "their sick people" need the "cleanest weed" and anything "living is a detriment to the sick patients"
> 
> yeah like a parasite sucking sick person's bank account dry.
> 
> Clown asses, all of them. Don't feel bad for the "raids," they earned them.


What about Colo? Are they doing the same thing? So basically the weed that they are selling in the shops in California is actually worse for the people who need it? Mutha#+/#@$


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 5, 2018)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Lol. You had it right the first half of the sentence. You can’t help me. You don’t have a basic grasp of logic to even get started.
> 
> And you cast the first insults. I only argued your silly bullshit with facts. You couldn’t handle reason.


I thought this site was about growing weed... Y'all need to smoke some and ctfo... Peace brothers...


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## Dmannn (Apr 5, 2018)

Frank Nitty said:


> What about Colo? Are they doing the same thing? So basically the weed that they are selling in the shops in California is actually worse for the people who need it? Mutha#+/#@$



I have not been to the Rado. I did make it out to Reno, Nevada and their Rec. stores have that same perfume trash. Its like people have been trained to only think that "super" pot is ultra dense nauseating catnpiss where one gram equals a penny sized nug and some shake, which gives you a headache. At about 2010 the pot started getting like this.

Of course this is my experience and strong opinion. But you know, what ever man.


----------



## Frank Nitty (Apr 5, 2018)

Dmannn said:


> I have not been to the Rado. I did make it out to Reno, Nevada and their Rec. stores have that same perfume trash. Its like people have been trained to only think that "super" pot is ultra dense nauseating catnpiss where one gram equals a penny sized nug and some shake of synthetic trash; which gives you a headache. At about 2010 the pot started getting like this.
> 
> Of course this is my experience and strong opinion. But you know, what ever man.


I believe you... Youre making me lean more and more towards going full organic... I'm doing it that way from the start but I was thinking that I had to go the way of using all the chemical weapons of destruction... until you came along with the real... I don't want my shit full of poison... preach on brother!!!


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## Dmannn (Apr 5, 2018)

oh and I know the price of pot dropped here DRAMATICALLY BEFORE and after the Rado went legal..where do you think all that cheap pot went? Of course that was ALL Truckload outdoor from the northwest. Indoor stayed local for the most part. Glad i can speak freely now. Since CA is LEGAL, fed layabouts and sum such chickenshits ya'know.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Apr 5, 2018)

Frank Nitty said:


> I thought this site was about growing weed... Y'all need to smoke some and ctfo... Peace brothers...



You’re right and I apologize. This crap overflowed from the flat earth thread. He trolled me and I didn’t let it go. The tone there is questionable.


----------



## Dmannn (Apr 5, 2018)

Frank Nitty said:


> I believe you... Youre making me lean more and more towards going full organic... I'm doing it that way from the start but I was thinking that I had to go the way of using all the chemical weapons of destruction... until you came along with the real... I don't want my shit full of poison... preach on brother!!!


Exactly. Brother mix up some DRY chicken and horse shit with clean mushroom compost 2 months or more months before planting, hit it with some nutrientless AACT a few times. Cant go cheaper.


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 5, 2018)

Dmannn said:


> oh and I know the price of pot dropped here DRAMATICALLY BEFORE and after the Rado went legal..where do you think all that cheap pot went? Of course that was ALL Truckload outdoor from the northwest. Indoor stayed local for the most part. Glad i can speak freely now. Since CA is LEGAL, fed layabouts and sum such chickenshits ya'know.


Probably came out this way... Midwest, Ohio ( where I live), yeah,I'm sure of it!!! That's why I'm growing my own...


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 5, 2018)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> You’re right and I apologize. This crap overflowed from the flat earth thread. He trolled me and I didn’t let it go. The tone there is questionable.


Shit is getting out of hand... when it gets like that i go to another site...grasscity or something... but really I just laugh at these mad hatters...not haters but hatters... don't let em get to you bro,they win that way...keep a cool head mon'!!!


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 5, 2018)

Something people ought to know... Misery loves company!!! If someone is down, they want to take somebody with them... If you know more than them, they want to try to discredit you... If your woman is fine and you're not around,he will try to get at her...the world is full of snakes... keep your grass low so you can see them!!! Believe half of what you see,none of what you hear... Get it? Got it? I'm gone!!!... Just for this post... I'll be here all night!!! Vampire life!!!


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## Dmannn (Apr 5, 2018)

Frank Nitty said:


> Something people ought to know... Misery loves company!!! If someone is down, they want to take somebody with them... If you know more than them, they want to try to discredit you... If your woman is fine and you're not around,he will try to get at her...the world is full of snakes... keep your grass low so you can see them!!! Believe half of what you see,none of what you hear... Get it? Got it? I'm gone!!!... Just for this post... I'll be here all night!!! Vampire life!!!



But remember, all is well if all is well by friend. CA is just beyond jacked up and everyone is pissed but apathetic about it.


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 5, 2018)

Dmannn said:


> But remember, all is well if all is well by friend. CA is just beyond jacked up and everyone is pissed but apathetic about it.


Yeah people act like they just don't care about anything anymore...it's sad...


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 5, 2018)

But I feel great!!! I'm happy to be alive and kicking!!! I want everyone to feel like I do!!! Let's grow some big buds!!!


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## Dmannn (Apr 5, 2018)

Molasses, brown sugar, cane sugar later in flower is the big shizzle. Lots of wet and dry cycles..keep that soil filled with neem!


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 5, 2018)

Dmannn said:


> Molasses, brown sugar, cane sugar later in flower is the big shizzle. Lots of wet and dry cycles..keep that soil filled with neem!


I'm writing all this stuff down right now... I've got most of the stuff in the kitchen as we speak...on on things im missing is the cane and the neem...soon though I'll have everything that I need!!! And then it's really on!!!


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## RetiredGuerilla (Apr 5, 2018)

If you are circulating air and you have carpeting in your house in areas under or adjacent to your garden then carpet fibers will stick to your buds. Acrylics commonly found in carpet contain polycrylonitriles which are carcinogens. They also have Nylon and Rayon. That's my point. Outdoor weed gets rained on or by me rinsing it. Outdoor weed is very clean if taken care of.


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 6, 2018)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> If you are circulating air and you have carpeting in your house in areas under or adjacent to your garden then carpet fibers will stick to your buds. Acrylics commonly found in carpet contain polycrylonitriles which are carcinogens. They also have Nylon and Rayon. That's my point. Outdoor weed gets rained on or by me rinsing it. Outdoor weed is very clean if taken care of.


That makes all the sense in the world to me... but what if you have a tent?


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## RetiredGuerilla (Apr 6, 2018)

Frank Nitty said:


> That makes all the sense in the world to me... but what if you have a tent?


If you have a mesh on your intake and you lay down a tarp in the room the tent is in then i say you would have clean meds. Even better if no carpeting existed in the house.


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 6, 2018)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> If you have a mesh on your intake and you lay down a tarp in the room the tent is in then i say you would have clean meds. Even better if no carpeting existed in the house.


Ain't this a bitch: the room that my tent is in is the only one with carpet... the rest of the house has tile and vinyl flooring...just my luck huh?


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## RetiredGuerilla (Apr 6, 2018)

Get a tarp or two cover that floor. Inspect your flowers for the fibers.


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 6, 2018)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> Get a tarp or two cover that floor. Inspect your flowers for the fibers.


Luckily my plant hasn't gotten that far yet but I'm thinking about getting the carpet up just to be safe... I have some good seeds coming and I'm not going to make any mistakes... I can't afford to,know what I mean?


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Apr 6, 2018)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> If you are circulating air and you have carpeting in your house in areas under or adjacent to your garden then carpet fibers will stick to your buds. Acrylics commonly found in carpet contain polycrylonitriles which are carcinogens. They also have Nylon and Rayon. That's my point. Outdoor weed gets rained on or by me rinsing it. Outdoor weed is very clean if taken care of.




Filters on intake fan. No pests. No mold. No pm. In proper indoor room. I have never even had to spray for bugs in 2 different houses for 4 years now. Planting and running rooms perpetually.


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## RetiredGuerilla (Apr 6, 2018)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Filters on intake fan. No pests. No mold. No pm. In proper indoor room. I have never even had to spray for bugs in 2 different houses for 4 years now. Planting and running rooms perpetually.


Dude I seen that funky 1974 shag carpet next to your grow. Go smoke another acrylic laden hooter rolled in bugler papers and take a ride through the desert on a horse with no name. Ya non remodeling non updating mutha fucker


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## MichiganMedGrower (Apr 6, 2018)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> Dude I seen that funky 1974 shag carpet next to your grow. Go smoke another acrylic laden hooter rolled in bugler papers and take a ride through the desert on a horse with no name. Ya non remodeling non updating mutha fucker



It’s new carpet from when I bought the house 2 years ago. And it is not in the Grow room. And like I said. The intake is filtered. 

Don’t know what shag carpet you are talking about. 

Wood floor in flower room. Plants on stands. Veg is in tents. Plants harvested in growroom or kitchen and hung in drying closet. 



So much for being reasonable with you.


----------



## RetiredGuerilla (Apr 6, 2018)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> It’s new carpet from when I bought the house 2 years ago. And it is not in the Grow room. And like I said. The intake is filtered.
> 
> Don’t know what shag carpet you are talking about.
> 
> ...


Dude you didn't have no tent. That carpet wasn't new either. You were growing in close proximity to some funky old 1970's era shag carpet on a old dirty floor. It was gross looking. If they tested ur nugs in a lab it would have acrylic fibers from the 70's when the environmental protection agency standards were lax. Your lies get exposed on a daily basis because you have drain brammage from smoking rayon and acrylic carpet fibers.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Apr 6, 2018)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> Dude you didn't have no tent. That carpet wasn't new either. You were growing in close proximity to some funky old 1970's era shag carpet on a old dirty floor. It was gross looking. If they tested ur nugs in a lab it would have acrylic fibers from the 70's when the environmental protection agency standards were lax. Your lies get exposed on a daily basis because you have drain brammage from smoking rayon and acrylic carpet fibers.



No. I post here regularly. My house doesn’t look like that and posted my veg tent yesterday. 

  

You shouldn’t listen to buck. Parroting that liar won’t help you.


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 6, 2018)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> Dude I seen that funky 1974 shag carpet next to your grow. Go smoke another acrylic laden hooter rolled in bugler papers and take a ride through the desert on a horse with no name. Ya non remodeling non updating mutha fucker


YO!!! What the fuck is going on with you guys??? This seems to be more to this than meets the eye!!! Look,this is not the place for all this hostility!!! Smoke a bowl, joint, blunt, whatever, but chill the fuck out!!! My seeds just got here and this is a good fucking day for me,so please,lets be at peace... Now, should I geminate,or should I just put them in the dirt?


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 6, 2018)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> Dude you didn't have no tent. That carpet wasn't new either. You were growing in close proximity to some funky old 1970's era shag carpet on a old dirty floor. It was gross looking. If they tested ur nugs in a lab it would have acrylic fibers from the 70's when the environmental protection agency standards were lax. Your lies get exposed on a daily basis because you have drain brammage from smoking rayon and acrylic carpet fibers.


Y'all dudes are funny/crazy!!!


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 6, 2018)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> No. I post here regularly. My house doesn’t look like that and posted my veg tent yesterday.
> 
> View attachment 4117675 View attachment 4117677
> 
> You shouldn’t listen to buck. Parroting that liar won’t help you.


Who's doing that? Not me... I don't say what he does...I'm not a follower...


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## MichiganMedGrower (Apr 6, 2018)

Frank Nitty said:


> YO!!! What the fuck is going on with you guys??? This seems to be more to this than meets the eye!!! Look,this is not the place for all this hostility!!! Smoke a bowl, joint, blunt, whatever, but chill the fuck out!!! My seeds just got here and this is a good fucking day for me,so please,lets be at peace... Now, should I geminate,or should I just put them in the dirt?



Just defending myself at this point. 

About germination my favorite breeder Pete at CH 9 Seeds had a tip that has worked well for me for years. 

Taproot the seed in a moist coffee filter in an open sandwich baggie in a dark warm place. 

The coffee filter doesn’t stick to fine root hairs like paper towel. But be careful it can roll right off.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Apr 6, 2018)

Frank Nitty said:


> Who's doing that? Not me... I don't say what he does...I'm not a follower...




The retired guerilla is. He has been following me around trolling me like buck.


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 6, 2018)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Just defending myself at this point.
> 
> About germination my favorite breeder Pete at CH 9 Seeds had a tip that has worked well for me for years.
> 
> ...


Right... I'm excited!!! I'm going to start with 1 auto skunk and 1 NLxBig bud auto...


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 6, 2018)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> The retired guerilla is. He has been following me around trolling me like buck.


I see that... what can you do? Ignore him...it's not that hard...


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## MichiganMedGrower (Apr 6, 2018)

After the seed taproots I plant it in a plastic party cup with good drain holes cut in and filled most of the way up with ocean forest watered to saturation with good runoff and 25% added perlite. Soil mixed up and all clumps squeezed as good as possible to get rid of hot nutrient chunks. 

About 5-7 days after sprout I top fill the space created in the cup from the initial water in with fresh soil to about 1/4” below the cots to support the stretching seedling an make a larger root ball.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Apr 6, 2018)

Frank Nitty said:


> I see that... what can you do? Ignore him...it's not that hard...



I will answer and defend myself. Only takes a minute. 

He only started this crap a couple of days ago. He wants me to agree with his flat earth theory. He is kind of entertaining. But I only answered in the thread with credible info. He gets very upset. 

My mother designed and programmed systems for the fbi/ medical info satellites we use to send info around the world. 

He thinks my mom who had to be helicoptered into the deep Colorado mountains and take a steel tube elevator to a room deep underground to uplink with the satellite in the real NORAD headquarters was duped by our government into believing lies. She has a PhD in computer science and high level Air Force classification. 

Lol. No one gets anything by that woman.


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 6, 2018)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> After the seed taproots I plant it in a plastic party cup with good drain holes cut in and filled most of the way up with ocean forest watered to saturation with good runoff and 25% added perlite. Soil mixed up and all clumps squeezed as good as possible to get rid of hot nutrient chunks.
> 
> About 5-7 days after sprout I top fill the space created in the cup from the initial water in with fresh soil to about 1/4” below the cots to support the stretching seedling an make a larger root ball.


I got that much figured out


MichiganMedGrower said:


> I will answer and defend myself. Only takes a minute.
> 
> He only started this crap a couple of days ago. He wants me to agree with his flat earth theory. He is kind of entertaining. But I only answered in the thread with credible info. He gets very upset.
> 
> ...


Everybody has a conspiracy theory about something... probably thinks y'all are spies


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## RetiredGuerilla (Apr 6, 2018)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> I will answer and defend myself. Only takes a minute.
> 
> He only started this crap a couple of days ago. He wants me to agree with his flat earth theory. He is kind of entertaining. But I only answered in the thread with credible info. He gets very upset.
> 
> ...


I saw the movie war games with Matthew Broderick too. Lol this joker just said his moma got helicoptered in to NORAD. Did the lonely missile silo operators run a train on her? We're they doing it on 1970's shag carpet with love train blaring on the 8 track tape player? Ocean Forest has clay like gobs of sewage sludge in it. Yummy. You smoke buds covered in carpet fibers grown in sewage sludge. LMAO people all round the world join hands join the love train....love train


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## MichiganMedGrower (Apr 6, 2018)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> I saw the movie war games with Matthew Broderick too. Lol this joker just said his moma got helicoptered in to NORAD. Did the lonely missile silo operators run a train on her? We're they doing it on 1970's shag carpet with love train blaring on the 8 track tape player? Ocean Forest has clay like gobs of sewage sludge in it. Yummy. You smoke buds covered in carpet fibers grown in sewage sludge. LMAO people all round the world join hands join the love train....love train



Dude. You are insulting my mom. 

And you sound like a noob about growing. 

What’s wrong with you?


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## Dmannn (Apr 6, 2018)

Insulting a way of growing pot v.s. insulting a person's relative on this websites mom is way off yo.


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## Randomestguy (Apr 8, 2018)

Lmao this guerilla dipshit is hilarious, I mean I apologize to Michiganmed as his family has been insulted but man, this dude is pissing against some gale force winds and it's flying into his face while he's trying to shit talk anything, meanwhile everyone's watching and laughing at whatever piss soaked insults manage to leave his mouth. Go back to the forest, that's where trolls live, oh wait you can't have a forest without trees cuz the shit you grow is too pathetic to count.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Apr 8, 2018)

Randomestguy said:


> Lmao this guerilla dipshit is hilarious, I mean I apologize to Michiganmed as his family has been insulted but man, this dude is pissing against some gale force winds and it's flying into his face while he's trying to shit talk anything, meanwhile everyone's watching and laughing at whatever piss soaked insults manage to leave his mouth. Go back to the forest, that's where trolls live, oh wait you can't have a forest without trees cuz the shit you grow is too pathetic to count.



Thanks for the condolences but I think we will be ok. 

It’s all for entertainment purposes here right!


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## Randomestguy (Apr 9, 2018)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Thanks for the condolences but I think we will be ok.
> 
> It’s all for entertainment purposes here right!


Lol yea, Hopefully guerilla can come up with a decent come back, when he sees the post I can just imagine him pulling up a whiteboard, oh no that's too outdated I mean ipad, and scribbling in formulas and calculations tryna find a way to make himself feel better by insulting people cuz somethings gotta be missing from your life to stoop so low as to insult carpet, fuckin carpet like come on.


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## RetiredGuerilla (Apr 9, 2018)

All jokes aside med. I tried this soil drying technique on a 23 day old urkle flo cross. I had to water bro. My temps are 82-85 range and they don't dig the oxygen to the roots thing. I was slightly damp 2 inches down and wilt was barely starting to set in. I went ahead and gave it its first phosphorus feeding and she perked back up. So it has to be age dependent and room temp. dependent. Your temps or 75ish? How old is the plant when you start with holding moisture to send the roots searching?


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## MichiganMedGrower (Apr 9, 2018)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> All jokes aside med. I tried this soil drying technique on a 23 day old urkle flo cross. I had to water bro. My temps are 82-85 range and they don't dig the oxygen to the roots thing. I was slightly damp 2 inches down and wilt was barely starting to set in. I went ahead and gave it its first phosphorus feeding and she perked back up. So it has to be age dependent and room temp. dependent. Your temps or 75ish? How old is the plant when you start with holding moisture to send the roots searching?



From the time I saturate the 18 oz. plastic seedling cup to runoff and plant the taprooted seed in potting soil. 

Takes 5-7 days to dry under t-5’s or a couple days less under hid. 

Then I top fill the cup to about 1/4” to the cots and re saturate gently to not damage the young roots. 

After about 2 weeks I transplant up to 1 gallon and repeat.


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 13, 2018)

Dmannn said:


> Insulting a way of growing pot v.s. insulting a person's relative on this websites mom is way off yo.


That's foul...why would you say that about somebody's mom? you wouldn't like it if someone said that about yours...lets keep it clean!!!


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 13, 2018)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Thanks for the condolences but I think we will be ok.
> 
> It’s all for entertainment purposes here right!


Fuck that!!! When someone is going in on the person that brought you into this world,this shit gets personal!!! He doesn't know you or your mom...


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## MichiganMedGrower (Apr 13, 2018)

Frank Nitty said:


> Fuck that!!! When someone is going in on the person that brought you into this world,this shit gets personal!!! He doesn't know you or your mom...



Chill out. I’m a grown up. I can take it. Mom doesn’t come here. And if she did she would rip some new ass holes.


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## Frank Nitty (Apr 13, 2018)

I'm just gonna mind my own business...


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## Organicus (Aug 24, 2018)

mccumcumber said:


> I've seen a whole bunch of threads on here about people complaining that their organic nutes just aren't cutting it, their plant is showing lots of micronute deficiencies, etc etc.
> 
> What people need to understand is that when they grow "organic" it is a process. I'll explain how plants get nutrition from the soil, and then it will become pretty damn obvious why your plants aren't really getting the "love" that they need.
> 
> ...


Mate that was well worth reading . Thank you .


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## RetiredGuerilla (Aug 24, 2018)

Yes it was a good read. But also some organics are immediately available like liquid kelp, fish emulsion, aquarium water, worm castings and urine. A very mild solution of kelp and fish emulsion used as a foliar spray can give you dynamite results outdoors. My plants love it but only use in the vegetative stage. Some manures break down more rapid than others as well. But the op is correct, nothing beats a well amended soil worked over time. It's fun work too.


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## nissanlongbien (Sep 12, 2018)

good


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## pollen205 (Nov 6, 2018)

Great first post...

Now I see my mistake...I grow organic...but just started..and always when I water I water more to be sure that every part of root zone is wet...
The result is lot of cloudy water in my tent floor...
Now I see that I flushing my soil life
Fuck fuck fuck

Does that bacteri and fungi get fast in reproduction or they are slow ?
I hope that I cant flush all of my soil life like that...

So do you organics gardner water your plant to the stage the watrr is all over the tent or you stop when you see first sign of drainage...smartpots/fabric pots

Also like to know is mulch/straw good thing about soil life...


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## Cannasaurus Rex (Nov 11, 2018)

Been growing for a few years starting with bucket style, pro-mix and liquid nutes. Transitioned very soon to organic soup style, then again to recycled organic soil mix. My organic soil has never been thrown out, as it gets cycled from indoor to outdoor, then to the winter soil heap with a few dry organic goodies to recharge but mostly gets compost as a 'recharge'. We like our soil mix rich with available nutes, but the key is the micro-life population. There is a large risk bringing soil in and out of doors, due to critters everywhere. Soil nutrient depletion is discussed a lot on these threads, and lots of peeps seem to think you have to dump a cocktail of Kelp guano micro's into their soil after a 12 week cycle. Adding this and that (epsom salts, molasses) in an attempt to have everything 'there' for the plant to use. In my short experience (in my 50's), with actual living healthy soil, your initial soil mixup, whether its subs, clacks, etc that there are enough nutrients to satisfy your plants needs for at least 2-3 years of growing I have 2 ivy plants, my kids brought from a school sale in solo cups, 7 years ago. I transplanted with my soil mix twice in the past 7 years, now they are in 1 gallon pots on the window sill They have only ever been fed well water @ 200 ppm or so, with a bit of rainwater now and then. They are 14 feet long and encircle our bay window so much we can actually use them as curtains. No yellowing, nutrient deficiencies or issues unless we forget to water for a couple WEEKS. These plants constantly remind me that it is almost possible to replicate a natural micro environment in a tiny cups for years. The only problem I have in the growroom has been overwatering. Rarely do I water until I have runoff, now, and when I do it is because the soil was a bit dry (cause I'm lazy), and is absorbed completely in minutes. I'm not shilling here but checkout garden myths site, mostly talks about outdoor growing but all principles apply to any grow. Save your money learn to foster natural living soil, grow great weed that costs little more than the hydro that you use in your room. Adding all sorts of nutes to troubled unhealthy soil, will get you nowhere but poor and unsatisfied. Example 1 application of glacial powder or remineralizing products in a healthy soil mix will last for 1 hundred years before its "depleted". Great OP article, wish more growers would think this way. Liquid nutes? Not ever. Cheers Epsom salts LMFAO, only in the bathwater, but thats more mythology too.


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## wilem38 (Aug 9, 2020)

mccumcumber said:


> I've seen a whole bunch of threads on here about people complaining that their organic nutes just aren't cutting it, their plant is showing lots of micronute deficiencies, etc etc.
> 
> What people need to understand is that when they grow "organic" it is a process. I'll explain how plants get nutrition from the soil, and then it will become pretty damn obvious why your plants aren't really getting the "love" that they need.
> 
> ...


Old but relevant
Thx.


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## NightOwlBono (Nov 29, 2020)

I've Been running organic practices in my garden and yard for A long time...before it was cool lol. As has been said Teaming With Microbes is an amazing tool in your arsenal. Making your own compost and having a worm bin is so beneficial too!

I didn't really know where to post this but it has saved me a lot of money over the last 7 years when I switched. I no longer buy expensive brands of alfalfa meal(70-90$cad for20kg?)
Go to your local feed store and buy alfalfa pellets or feed. UFA in Canada sells 20kg for $14-16


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## Northwood (Nov 29, 2020)

NightOwlBono said:


> Go to your local feed store and buy alfalfa pellets or feed. UFA in Canada sells 20kg for $14-16


We have Ritchie's Feed & Seed here in Ottawa, and they're charging about $20 for a single 20kg sack of alfalfa pellets. Now I feel like I've been ripped off! lol

I used an ample amount in my initial no-till soil mix, and also added the pellets as mulch during the first cycle. I haven't added them again to my indoor no-till, but I use them for my soil mixes in my outdoor pots that grow veggies and cannabis too. Even at $20, it's pretty cost effective for an "amendment".


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## NightOwlBono (Nov 29, 2020)

Northwood said:


> We have Ritchie's Feed & Seed here in Ottawa, and they're charging about $20 for a single 20kg sack of alfalfa pellets. Now I feel like I've been ripped off! lol
> 
> I used an ample amount in my initial no-till soil mix, and also added the pellets as mulch during the first cycle. I haven't added them again to my indoor no-till, but I use them for my soil mixes in my outdoor pots that grow veggies and cannabis too. Even at $20, it's pretty cost effective for an "amendment".


You can buy 80kg for the cost of Gia green 20kg!!


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## jo_e_o (Jan 31, 2021)

My first post here, I've had one grow complete using bottled line of a somewhat organic nutrients from Botanicare. It's not 100% organic obviously, but I was trying to stay away from salt based nutes. Organic folks can be very picky on what is and isn't Organic, so re-emphasizing that I'm using somewhat organic based product, and I'm learning! Not much is shared on the Botanicare line up from actual users, they seem to be in the A&B Camp of nutrients and I feel left out going down this path, but after reading the original post, I felt like I am doing good things by learning and not switching to find magic bullets. Botanicare has provided me with great support, they called me three times after I've reached out to them with on three different vm's, and I can't say how good that makes me feel. 

All nutrients are roughly the same and just heavily marketed to differentiate themselves. Test groups are subjective, judges are subjective, very hard to get clear balanced facts as no one takes that level of time to do such, and those test groups are usually sponsored by a nutirent line or subsidiary of one... 

Genetics stains will have different reactions using the same nutrients and supplements. So its required to adjust vs. saying a line is garbage because it's short on this or heavy on that, it's a process, go in light, adjust as you go and always seek to learn. Can't say that it doesn't upset me when I come up short on nitrogen with my current grow - 

My second grow - strain is Crystal Rain, she's an 85% Indica hybrid. Temps are 72F to 82 F, RH is 35 to 45%, and under SF 4000 LED 19" from canopy top. Soil is FFOF, since switching to 12/12 on 1/3, I've had this nitrogen issue. I'm currently at 28 days into flower, and the lower half of the plant is prematurely yellowing - I've halted my feed schedule to try and correct using a diluted 1/20 ratio of (my) urine and Epsom salt in RO water, but it's not corrected the issue just yet, and it's been 10 days since I've added the 1st dose of urine, second dose was three days fter 1st dose. Noticed increase in darker tops, but that could be residual effects of a nitrogen deficiency as the bottom yellows and the tops get darker. I have to feed tomorrow, would really like to nail this issue to correct. I use Pure Blend Pro Bloom Soil, and could split the dose of Pure Blend Grow & Bloom to try and address, vs. adding "other" organic ingredients, but seeking help.

See Bianca's profile and overall canopy. 

Thanks!


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 31, 2021)

jo_e_o said:


> My first post here, I've had one grow complete using bottled line of a somewhat organic nutrients from Botanicare. It's not 100% organic obviously, but I was trying to stay away from salt based nutes. Organic folks can be very picky on what is and isn't Organic, so re-emphasizing that I'm using somewhat organic based product, and I'm learning! Not much is shared on the Botanicare line up from actual users, they seem to be in the A&B Camp of nutrients and I feel left out going down this path, but after reading the original post, I felt like I am doing good things by learning and not switching to find magic bullets. Botanicare has provided me with great support, they called me three times after I've reached out to them with on three different vm's, and I can't say how good that makes me feel.
> 
> All nutrients are roughly the same and just heavily marketed to differentiate themselves. Test groups are subjective, judges are subjective, very hard to get clear balanced facts as no one takes that level of time to do such, and those test groups are usually sponsored by a nutirent line or subsidiary of one...
> 
> ...


 What's your water ph? You're using ro water, you might need to add cal mag. It's kinda hard to tell from the pics... are the stems purpling real bad?


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## jo_e_o (Jan 31, 2021)

Appreciate the reply Holla! 

The pH is usually between 6.3 & 6.6 @69F to 71F, Tent temps are 72F to 82F & RH is 35% to 45%. The main stalk has purple stripes in it, the leaf stems are reddish purple. I use 10ml of CalMag per watering session. I hear people using lots of CalMag, but I have not gone over 10 ml per gallon of RO yet. 

I can do a CalMag foliar, I've used liquid Kelp (as a foliar) while in Veg, and recently used Liquid Karma (as a foliar) in these past two weeks - which increases microbial colonization and supposed to be great as a foliar. However, I've not done the CalMag and on the verge of giving it a try. 

These two pictures sum up the main stalk and stems. I've only foliar sprayed immediately after lights out. I understand the stomata is open those first 15 min, and it's the best time to spray. 

Were you thinking CalMag lacking because I'm using RO water? I do add 5ml for that deficiency then add another 5ml to be the supplemental portion. If that is too conservative, I can up it; do you think 2ml or like 5ml? More? As for Nitrogen, tonight I was planning on adding Pure Blend Pro Grow @ 3ml which is a 3/2/4 along with 10ml of Pure Blend Pro Bloom which is a 1/4/5. I also add 10ml of CalMag, 5ml of Hydroplex and 15ml of molasses.

Again thanks for the reply!


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 31, 2021)

jo_e_o said:


> Appreciate the reply Holla!
> 
> The pH is usually between 6.3 & 6.6 @69F to 71F, Tent temps are 72F to 82F & RH is 35% to 45%. The main stalk has purple stripes in it, the leaf stems are reddish purple. I use 10ml of CalMag per watering session. I hear people using lots of CalMag, but I have not gone over 10 ml per gallon of RO yet.
> 
> ...


Man, seems like you're giving more than enough Ca and Mg. How long after putting in soil did you start using bottled nutes?


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## jo_e_o (Jan 31, 2021)

I had a friend raise this lady through veg, I brought it home around Thanksgiving. He had not used any nutrients, just tap water. When I took it in, I transplanted it from a 1 gallon pot to a 3 gallon. Plant was yellow at bottom leaves were droopy. Went low on water and guessing transplant stress, different tent, lighting and overall environment caused this. I began feeding right away, even with the new Fox Farm Ocean Forest medium. I should have waited to see how it responded without nutes, but I rushed it.

My first feeding was high 1400PPMs, I was upset but rushing that specific day. I keep a journal, and noted that there was no collateral damage. 

Afterwards, I had lowered the PPM's to 1100, then 800 then 600 across those next 3 feedings. I was trying to get the leaves not to droop. I was initially using 1/2 gallon and then 3/4 of a gallon during those feedings. Now, its 1 gallon each time, I water her every 3 to 4 days. 

PPMs are just under 1400 today, and pH is 6.3 to 6.5 most recently. Other than the light green lower leaves and the 2 to 3 yellow leaves, the tops look great. It could be super finicky and genetics, but I'm so new to all this, I don't honestly know. I skipped today's water as she can definitely wait till Monday night. 

This was her at 4:53am, just before lights out. I gave her a foliar spray of Liquid Karma. This evening she looked ok, but that wondering if I should do a liquid kelp foliar tomorrow morning or the liquid Karma. You can't loose with Kelp...


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 31, 2021)

jo_e_o said:


> I had a friend raise this lady through veg, I brought it home around Thanksgiving. He had not used any nutrients, just tap water. When I took it in, I transplanted it from a 1 gallon pot to a 3 gallon. Plant was yellow at bottom leaves were droopy. Went low on water and guessing transplant stress, different tent, lighting and overall environment caused this. I began feeding right away, even with the new Fox Farm Ocean Forest medium. I should have waited to see how it responded without nutes, but I rushed it.
> 
> My first feeding was high 1400PPMs, I was upset but rushing that specific day. I keep a journal, and noted that there was no collateral damage.
> 
> ...


She looks pretty good there. Id be careful doing foliar applications in flower though.


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## jo_e_o (Feb 1, 2021)

Understood, and thank you for mentioning this. I will taper off shortly when those coals become denser. Right now my airflow & RH are good and not much area for water to stand/rest that wouldn't dry in the 12-hour lights off period, but definitely agree on your caution there. 

Thanks again Holla!!


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## Outdoorhydro (Feb 1, 2021)

Great information. Thanks for sharing!


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 24, 2021)

OSG said:


> .
> McCumcumber..... I kind of paraphrased your first post, in the quote above, and agree. Most people that aren't familar with organics, don't get the results they're after. Adding beneficial bacteria and fungi, along with NPK food sources and trace minerals (like with Seaweed Meal, Azomite, etc.), makes all the difference. Feed the soil & let it feed the plant.
> .
> Good products for proper organic goodness, include Root's Oregonism XL, Myco-Magic, Plant Success, and Super Plant Tonic (Ebay). That last one is made by a small company, that also adds beneficials to their regular fertilizers. Giving them a real boost right out of the gate.
> ...


"Low, Slow & Steady Feeding, makes the best buds..... "

I like that. I'm gonna go with that philosophy. Lol


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## Weedvin (Jun 22, 2021)

mccumcumber said:


> I personally would use lady bugs or dragon flies over neem oil. You can buy lady bugs at most if not all organic sores.
> 
> If you only have access to neem don't worry too much, it will kill some of your microbiology, but not too significant of an amount.


May I suggest pyrethrin ?


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## Weedvin (Jun 22, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> "Low, Slow & Steady Feeding, makes the best buds..... "
> 
> I like that. I'm gonna go with that philosophy. Lol


Amen Brother


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## Abstacticism (Jul 22, 2021)

mccumcumber said:


> I've seen a whole bunch of threads on here about people complaining that their organic nutes just aren't cutting it, their plant is showing lots of micronute deficiencies, etc etc.
> 
> What people need to understand is that when they grow "organic" it is a process. I'll explain how plants get nutrition from the soil, and then it will become pretty damn obvious why your plants aren't really getting the "love" that they need.
> 
> ...


Goog day good Person

I have been growing organic for my entire growing career.

I recently decided to join this media thing so not accustomed to the workings of this site.

I agree with most of what you said in your post. Valuable information there, thank you. I would like to ask you whether you have also studied the Aerobic and Anaerobic microorganism balance in your soil and body?
They are the Inbetweeners between the roots of the plants and the fungi and bacteria.

I would like to share more information with you. Organic growers are rare indeed to find. 
A different perspective will be appreciated


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## Kushash (Jul 22, 2021)

Abstacticism said:


> Goog day good Person
> 
> I have been growing organic for my entire growing career.
> 
> ...


Welcome to RIU!
The person you are replying to has not been on RIU for 6 years.
Note the date of his post is in 2012.
Happy Growing!


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## Abstacticism (Jul 23, 2021)

Kushash said:


> Welcome to RIU!
> The person you are replying to has not been on RIU for 6 years.
> Note the date of his post is in 2012.
> Happy Growing!


Hahaha thank you very much. Any idea who else I can ask advice from? Got a huge ant problem and looking for the organic solution.

Blessed Growings for you 
One love


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## Abstacticism (Jul 23, 2021)

Weedvin said:


> May I suggest pyrethrin ?


Many problems like avids and spider mite can be successfully treated with Hydrogen peroxide. H2O2. Super oxygenated water. You basically drown the pests in oxygen


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## insomnia65 (Jul 23, 2021)

Abstacticism said:


> Hahaha thank you very much. Any idea who else I can ask advice from? Got a huge ant problem and looking for the organic solution.
> 
> Blessed Growings for you
> One love


What colour ants


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## DoobieDoobs (Jul 23, 2021)

Abstacticism said:


> Hahaha thank you very much. Any idea who else I can ask advice from? Got a huge ant problem and looking for the organic solution.
> 
> Blessed Growings for you
> One love


There are quite a few knowledgeable people around here, you can make a post in the organic section and they will come to your aid.


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## green_machine_two9er (Jul 23, 2021)

Abstacticism said:


> Goog day good Person
> 
> I have been growing organic for my entire growing career.
> 
> ...


I’d love some information sharing as well! Or start a thread in organics so all can find more perspective. Welcome!


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## Abstacticism (Jul 25, 2021)

insomnia65 said:


> What colour ants


 I will try to give an accurate account, although I am far from a specialist. 
There is a small black one, a medium size with an elongated back segment shiny black type. There are rice ants. There is a species that is between 1cm and 2,5cm long. There is the red fire ant. 

I will have a look around and see if I missed one


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## Abstacticism (Jul 25, 2021)

green_machine_two9er said:


> I’d love some information sharing as well! Or start a thread in organics so all can find more perspective. Welcome!


Starting a seperate thread might be a very good idea. I am reading the current threads in search of information and am shocked to see how little of this subject of microorganisms I see in the organic chats.

Thank you for the welcome! 
Getting used to this whole global chat idea
One Love


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## mudballs (Jul 25, 2021)

Abstacticism said:


> I will try to give an accurate account, although I am far from a specialist.
> There is a small black one, a medium size with an elongated back segment shiny black type. There are rice ants. There is a species that is between 1cm and 2,5cm long. There is the red fire ant.
> 
> I will have a look around and see if I missed one


you wanna get rid of ants you gotta dig em up and hope you get the queen. toss all the dirt that comprises their hive in a scaterred pattern and they leave that dirt. if you do get the queen they'll just be gone after a day or two.no sign of em.


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## Abstacticism (Jul 25, 2021)

mudballs said:


> you wanna get rid of ants you gotta dig em up and hope you get the queen. toss all the dirt that comprises their hive in a scaterred pattern and they leave that dirt. if you do get the queen they'll just be gone after a day or two.no sign of em.


My dear person. That is not going to work for the area I am in
And most importantly, that is NOT an organic solution, buddy!!!!!!!

Organic, natural ways of growing means, to me personally, that you utilise the systems that nature has already put in place. It means that you study nature in order to find the Natural solutions to your problems.
Not forcing nature to bend to my will. Working with nature.

I stay in the semi arid desert area on the west coast of South Africa. We have ant nests going down 25-35meters below the ground, resulting in prehistoric formations of flora in the fields and mountains.


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## mudballs (Jul 25, 2021)

Abstacticism said:


> My dear person. That is not going to work for the area I am in
> And most importantly, that is NOT an organic solution, buddy!!!!!!!
> 
> Organic, natural ways of growing means, to me personally, that you utilise the systems that nature has already put in place. It means that you study nature in order to find the Natural solutions to your problems.
> ...


yeah sure mister


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## Abstacticism (Jul 25, 2021)

mudballs said:


> yeah sure mister



It's Madame ;D
Anyhow. Just my personal opinion Bru, is all. 

Blessings to you and your way


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## green_machine_two9er (Jul 25, 2021)

Abstacticism said:


> My dear person. That is not going to work for the area I am in
> And most importantly, that is NOT an organic solution, buddy!!!!!!!
> 
> Organic, natural ways of growing means, to me personally, that you utilise the systems that nature has already put in place. It means that you study nature in order to find the Natural solutions to your problems.
> ...


Ummmm. Maybe fire is what your looking for. Seems as organic it gets. Dump a bunch of gasoline down the holes. Spark it up and doom.
Wait gasoline wouldn’t be an organic catalyst.
It sound like to me if hand digging isn’t organic snd natural, I don’t know any other advice less natural than that. Diatomaceous earth kills Michigan ants. 
Not sure about these 100ft ant holes your dealing with. What about that neurotoxin from some fungal disease that causes ants to go all suicidal and grow into mushroom spores. That would be thenatural way I guess


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## Abstacticism (Jul 25, 2021)

green_machine_two9er said:


> Ummmm. Maybe fire is what your looking for. Seems as organic it gets. Dump a bunch of gasoline down the holes. Spark it up and doom.
> Wait gasoline wouldn’t be an organic catalyst.
> It sound like to me if hand digging isn’t organic snd natural, I don’t know any other advice less natural than that. Diatomaceous earth kills Michigan ants.
> Not sure about these 100ft ant holes your dealing with. What about that neurotoxin from some fungal disease that causes ants to go all suicidal and grow into mushroom spores. That would be thenatural way I guess


I have started researching the Diatomaceous earth way. Looks like a good option although I haven't heard of anyone using it before. Always more to learn though!
That neurotoxin you mentioned doen not sound that Gaia friendly to me... I put Mother Nature first. Harvesting from her comes second. Basically anything else comes secondary for me....

Thank you for the advice! I appreciate the different perspective.

One love


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## green_machine_two9er (Jul 25, 2021)

Abstacticism said:


> I have started researching the Diatomaceous earth way. Looks like a good option although I haven't heard of anyone using it before. Always more to learn though!
> That neurotoxin you mentioned doen not sound that Gaia friendly to me... I put Mother Nature first. Harvesting from her comes second. Basically anything else comes secondary for me....
> 
> Thank you for the advice! I appreciate the different perspective.
> ...



https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/cordyceps-zombie-fungus-takes-over-ants?cmpid=int_org=ngp::int_mc=website::int_src=ngp::int_cmp=amp::int_add=amp_readtherestseems like Mother Nature at her finest.


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## myke (Jul 26, 2021)

2.5cm long!,yikes.Perhaps some pet birds(chickens) that will feast on these prehistoric ants.


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## MAGpie81 (Jul 27, 2021)

mccumcumber said:


> I've seen a whole bunch of threads on here about people complaining that their organic nutes just aren't cutting it, their plant is showing lots of micronute deficiencies, etc etc.
> 
> What people need to understand is that when they grow "organic" it is a process. I'll explain how plants get nutrition from the soil, and then it will become pretty damn obvious why your plants aren't really getting the "love" that they need.
> 
> ...


Love it.

Thanks for taking the time to write-it-out.

I will say that a good compost-tea (oxygenated) or “beer” (ferment) CAN make your plants happy when growing in soil and trying stay organic.

If you live near a brewery and/or a seafood market, offer to take some waste from them.
Used grains or the filtered-out yeast water from a beer brewery are great, and don’t get me started on the awesomeness you can get from fisheries- sometimes even “waste” you could make edible soups from, haha.

Great, great post, MC Cuke.


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## DrBuzzFarmer (Jul 28, 2021)

Abstacticism said:


> I have started researching the Diatomaceous earth way. Looks like a good option although I haven't heard of anyone using it before. Always more to learn though!
> That neurotoxin you mentioned doen not sound that Gaia friendly to me... I put Mother Nature first. Harvesting from her comes second. Basically anything else comes secondary for me....
> 
> Thank you for the advice! I appreciate the different perspective.
> ...


I have a devious solution for you. Not intended for use in plants and pots.
Boric Acid.
It's a powder that washes away with the rain, but placed strategically it can be very effective.
Thing about Boric Acid is that it sticks to the ants legs as a powder and when the ant goes back to it's nest it walks on the eggs, and they begin dissolving.
This is a trick people in the American South used for decades to rid a house of a troublesome roach infestation. 
It's not a noxious poison. I've sprinkled it with my hands around the inside of home foundations. Though I doubt you want to eat it..........
Your infestation will disappear from it's root, in time.
Worst case scenario, your house is considered a "danger zone" by insects and you see less of them.


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## Southernontariogrower (Aug 8, 2021)

mccumcumber said:


> I've seen a whole bunch of threads on here about people complaining that their organic nutes just aren't cutting it, their plant is showing lots of micronute deficiencies, etc etc.
> 
> What people need to understand is that when they grow "organic" it is a process. I'll explain how plants get nutrition from the soil, and then it will become pretty damn obvious why your plants aren't really getting the "love" that they need.
> 
> ...


Awesome post! Very informative. There are some very good chemical ferts. Pretty clean too.


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## Abstacticism (Aug 25, 2021)

green_machine_two9er said:


> https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/cordyceps-zombie-fungus-takes-over-ants?cmpid=int_org=ngp::int_mc=website::int_src=ngp::int_cmp=amp::int_add=amp_readtherestseems like Mother Nature at her finest.


That is a very foreign fungus for this area of the world. Thanks for the new info though. Didn't know about this fungus ant anomaly.


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## green_machine_two9er (Aug 25, 2021)

Abstacticism said:


> That is a very foreign fungus for this area of the world. Thanks for the new info though. Didn't know about this fungus ant anomaly.


I think I was being sarcastic. But it is a cool phenomenon


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## Abstacticism (Aug 26, 2021)

green_machine_two9er said:


> I think I was being sarcastic. But it is a cool phenomenon


HaHaha sorry, I am bad with sarcasm. I actually checked the link out and researched it further


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## Tonycannavis (Sep 20, 2021)

Great post I just posted my grow to share with a bud early today here people goes crazy growing organic all I do it’s keeping those micros happy the plants never been this healthy


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## m4s73r (Oct 17, 2021)

This is why I preach mulching your cannabis plant back into your bed, growing living mulch. Mulching your fan leaves during defoliation. Got to feed that bed. As someone who runs a couple of 4x4 no till beds indoors, I dont really feel like I have to do much with proper mulching. Sure I throw on some Craft blend a couple time a year. I water with some whetting agents and Mikrobs. But really when I flip over a rock and its got a worm and bugs just all over the place, I know my soil is alive and well.


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## outside Dixie (Jan 17, 2022)

Hole prep is the key You don't need a college degree to grow. You need holes done right after you put the plant . Fix holes for next year.Organic ..Hole have to work all winter to be ready for your plant in spring...All that is good info. For indoors..For Bugs Nemotoes work great for all bugs


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## Boatguy (Jan 17, 2022)

outside Dixie said:


> Hole prep is the key You don't need a college degree to grow. You need holes done right after you put the plant . Fix holes for next year.Organic ..Hole have to work all winter to be ready for your plant in spring...All that is good info. For indoors..For Bugs Nemotoes work great for all bugs


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## [email protected] (Jan 21, 2022)

following


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## Bourbon 2 (Jan 25, 2022)

Abstacticism said:


> Starting a seperate thread might be a very good idea. I am reading the current threads in search of information and am shocked to see how little of this subject of microorganisms I see in the organic chats.
> 
> Thank you for the welcome!
> Getting used to this whole global chat idea
> One Love


What's your regimen for bacterial tea and fungal teas?


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## [email protected] (Feb 26, 2022)

mccumcumber said:


> I've seen a whole bunch of threads on here about people complaining that their organic nutes just aren't cutting it, their plant is showing lots of micronute deficiencies, etc etc.
> 
> What people need to understand is that when they grow "organic" it is a process. I'll explain how plants get nutrition from the soil, and then it will become pretty damn obvious why your plants aren't really getting the "love" that they need.
> 
> ...


_I've literally seen 0-50-0 in a hydro store before. I literally asked the worker if he was fucking kidding me with that useless nute and he said though he highly suggests against it, many people buy it because they read that phosphorous makes bigger buds. Though P does help out your flowers, all 0-50-0 will do is cause huge fucking problems. In a balanced recipe all the nutrition will be used and you will not experience nute burn. If you are getting nute burn, rethink about what nutes you are using and find a more balanced recipe._

Thanks for the info! I often wondered how could an organic grow (mine in particular) could get some nute burn. As mentioned in your post * ,,,Balance! *


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## PJ Diaz (Feb 26, 2022)

[email protected] said:


> _I've literally seen 0-50-0 in a hydro store before. I literally asked the worker if he was fucking kidding me with that useless nute and he said though he highly suggests against it, many people buy it because they read that phosphorous makes bigger buds. Though P does help out your flowers, all 0-50-0 will do is cause huge fucking problems. In a balanced recipe all the nutrition will be used and you will not experience nute burn. If you are getting nute burn, rethink about what nutes you are using and find a more balanced recipe._
> 
> Thanks for the info! I often wondered how could an organic grow (mine in particular) could get some nute burn. As mentioned in your post * ,,,Balance! *


Blood meal is an organic nute, but use too much and you will have an excess of N and burn your plants.


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## [email protected] (Feb 26, 2022)

PJ Diaz said:


> Blood meal is an organic nute, but use too much and you will have an excess of N and burn your plants.


I've done this with (seemingly) Neem Seed Meal (6-1-2). Some pots showed signs of nute burn, others didn't so not really sure what did what. I'm told a soil test is the way to go but soil testing plus number of pots sounds expensive. It also could've been just that one extra tablespoon of dry amendments that did it.. so lots of grows to go to really find out for myself.


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## Psyphish (Nov 5, 2022)

This post explains why my attempt at "organic" growing is such a failure. I took coco coir and mixed in about 30% EWC. I then added Guanokalong Complete Organics powder and Ecothrive Charge powder. I watered that mixture with water that had BioBizz Fish Mix in it. I let the mixture sit for a couple of weeks, mixing it around daily. I then transplanted my seedlings into it and watered with sea weed extract and they appear to be STARVING week after the transplant. I guess I thought adding "organic powders" would be enough for the plants to feed on, but I'm obviously lacking the bugs, bacteria, fungi and all that other jazz. I guess I'll have to just treat it like regular coco coir and feed salt based nutrients on every watering.


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## [email protected] (Nov 5, 2022)

Psyphish said:


> This post explains why my attempt at "organic" growing is such a failure. I took coco coir and mixed in about 30% EWC. I then added Guanokalong Complete Organics powder and Ecothrive Charge powder. I watered that mixture with water that had BioBizz Fish Mix in it. I let the mixture sit for a couple of weeks, mixing it around daily. I then transplanted my seedlings into it and watered with sea weed extract and they appear to be STARVING week after the transplant. I guess I thought adding "organic powders" would be enough for the plants to feed on, but I'm obviously lacking the bugs, bacteria, fungi and all that other jazz. I guess I'll have to just treat it like regular coco coir and feed salt based nutrients on every watering.


Could've just been a little transplant shock. And dose of compost tea could get you a boost in breaking down those nutes faster. And using coco coir is half assing on an organic grow in my opinion. Use some real soil.


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## Psyphish (Nov 5, 2022)

[email protected] said:


> Could've just been a little transplant shock. And dose of compost tea could get you a boost in breaking down those nutes faster. And using coco coir is half assing on an organic grow in my opinion. Use some real soil.


I don't really have any place to make compost tea at. I don't know what I was thinking with the whole organic coco.


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## ClaytonNewbilFontaine (Nov 5, 2022)

This was very helpful. I needed a new book to listen to.


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## Hollatchaboy (Nov 5, 2022)

Psyphish said:


> I don't really have any place to make compost tea at. I don't know what I was thinking with the whole organic coco.


You can make compost tea anywhere a 5 gallon bucket will fit. 

Organics work by microbial activity breaking down organic inputs. Moisture is needed for that process to take place. Coco dries too quickly imo.


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## Southernontariogrower (Nov 16, 2022)

Root tips absorb most nutes of the whole rhyzosphere. Overwatering is not good! roots need to look for water as this promotes growth vigor. Salt based ferts grow as well as bottled. Organics can run into problems too.
The three most important areas of growing are proper light, intensity wattage spectrum etc. good medium, that drains well. Good watering practices help! And airflow!
The easier to get to the plants the better. If hand watering, a schedule helps too. Proper care and storage of ph and ppm meters will help you sooner or later. And testing meters for accuracy every little while could save your crop or a headache at the minimal.
I've cut everything down to bare minimal in flowering tent. Trying to utilize whole area for the hope of more bud come end of grow. So no extra space for unnecessary equiptment. 
co2 and higher levels will help if plants are stressed from heat, was a hps grower but leds cut at least ten to twenty degrees from my tents temperature. Plus whole area has light coverage of %100. Corners of 4x4 were never covered like tent center and now tent coverage is hundreds of watts less and in my opinion, 10x better. Rarely turn on extraction fan last few flower cycles.
Over hps l think leds are a gamechanger. Hope some of this babble might of helped.
Happy growing!


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## Hollatchaboy (Nov 16, 2022)

Southernontariogrower said:


> Root tips absorb most nutes of the whole rhyzosphere. Overwatering is not good! roots need to look for water as this promotes growth vigor. Salt based ferts grow as well as bottled. Organics can run into problems too.
> The three most important areas of growing are proper light, intensity wattage spectrum etc. good medium, that drains well. Good watering practices help! And airflow!
> The easier to get to the plants the better. If hand watering, a schedule helps too. Proper care and storage of ph and ppm meters will help you sooner or later. And testing meters for accuracy every little while could save your crop o


Not that I'm necessarily disagreeing with you, but what's your explanation for this statement....roots need to look for water as this promotes growth vigor....... how do you explain dwc?


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## Southernontariogrower (Nov 17, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Not that I'm necessarily disagreeing with you, but what's your explanation for this statement....roots need to look for water as this promotes growth vigor....... how do you explain dwc?


That's why they grow faster in dwc. The growth tips never stop. But if growing in a soiless mix the roots will chase the water as pot dries. And lve found this gives the best reaction. Can't realy compare dwc or nutrient film systems to growing in a peat medium. But my point was about root tip absorbing more nutes and faster growth. Hope your having and excellent evening, morning.now!


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