# Defoliation - Touchy Subject My Theory (Veg + Flower)



## saiyaneye (Dec 19, 2015)

I am pretty sure others know this. This is just a theory I think about, it may be flawed, personal experience and opinions have me set on this technique. I have found that defoliation is a touchy subject among all growers. Now I would like to discuss how you personally feel on defoliation techniques. I have noticed great yields with defoliation as have others. I personally think you want to do the majority of it towards the end of your veg cycle, yes it stunts the growth of the plant maybe a week or two. But if you are not in a huge hurry you are going to gain a quality plant that is open and will receive more light to it's lower nodes and branches. 
*
Veg*
I have taken nearly all large leaves off during veg in two to three stages, yes it will slow the growth of the plant tremendously, however, the node growth skyrockets once it recovers. Sometimes, depending how aggressive you are with the plant and how young it is, it can take up to two weeks for it to recover. You will notice it not taking in much water during this also, but it will bounce back. 
*
Flower*
During flower, I try to do this as little as possible, try to defoliate your plant as much as you can in the vegative state, you do not want stress in the flowering cycle right? Last month of flower I have not seen any negative results with selective defoliation...
================================
I like to horizontal grow. Bending the plant nearly in half allowing each branch to grow up so you can have a separate cola. This has increased my yields substantially. 

*Please don't simply reply with "don't", please give a reason, have you done a test with a control or have you just gone off others opinions?*


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## Resinhound (Dec 19, 2015)

You make some good points...I have just 1 question.

If its so good to defoilate...why is it such a debated topic.You would think this would already be firmly proven by now.


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## saiyaneye (Dec 19, 2015)

I think the only way to "prove" it is to have side by side clones and defoliate two and leave two alone.

If you can top, fim, supercrop during veg why not be able to pull leaves off?


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 19, 2015)

Sounds cool your not the only one I have heard this from. Some say leave leaves on some do it at various stages. I say do what your comfortable with and you see the improvement in the yield then it works for you keep doing it.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 19, 2015)

saiyaneye said:


> I think the only way to "prove" it is to have side by side clones and defoliate two and leave two alone.
> 
> If you can top, fim, supercrop during veg why not be able to pull leaves off?


You would need to measure the light to keep it the same on the plants temps same and nutes same then you could possibly see the diff. I have two same clones from same mother one has twice as much bud as the other. I've switched their positions in the room and everything one is still fatter than the other.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 20, 2015)

With every new crop of newbies......


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## budman111 (Dec 20, 2015)

saiyaneye said:


> I think the only way to "prove" it is to have side by side clones and defoliate two and leave two alone.
> 
> If you can top, fim, supercrop during veg why not be able to pull leaves off?


Or, look at it this way, If you can top, fim, supercrop during veg then _why _ pull all leaves off?


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## chuck estevez (Dec 20, 2015)

300 pages and No side by side ever completed, oh wait, been there done that.


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## Bugeye (Dec 20, 2015)

Defoliation is perfect for folks that have a psychological need to fuck with their plants as much as possible. To each their own.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 20, 2015)

saiyaneye said:


> *Please don't simply reply with "don't", please give a reason, have you done a test with a control or have you just gone off others opinions?*


As a new member you're being disrespectful to the many members who have engaged dozens of threads and thousands of posts on this stupid practice. FWIW, not one has produced a non-biased, independent report done by a bonafide agricultural lab. it's all stoner talk and forum anecdotal evidence which is not credible. It's also a noob thing.

Please lurk and so a search using the keywords of defoliation, lollipopping and stupid RIU practices and myths.

Thanks


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## chuck estevez (Dec 20, 2015)

saiyaneye said:


> I think the only way to "prove" it is to have side by side clones and defoliate two and leave two alone.
> 
> If you can top, fim, supercrop during veg why not be able to pull leaves off?


BTW, topping, fiming and supercropping are training plants taking advantage of a thing called apical dominance, look it up. defoliating is not the same thing.


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## Keighan (Dec 20, 2015)

I've seen natural defoliation lead to a substantial increase in branching length, doesn't mean it increases yield though, you may be 'redirecting energy' but especially in the case of large fan leaves that's a lot of photosynthesis loss that's why the leaves are there for right? The collection of photons


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## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 20, 2015)

If a plant doesn't need a leaf she will discarded herself. So tired of this subject. Smh. Thats why u hear them later... HELP MY PLANT IS DYING!!! HELLPPPPP WHATS GOING ON WITH MY PLANTS?? SO TIRED OF THAT


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## SPLFreak808 (Dec 20, 2015)

I just dont fucking get it no more. I have personally tried 8 different cuts only 6 of them made it to flower.

If you defoliate during veg, not only does it stunt the plant but the plant will make new leaves higher up to compromise for what you cut off. The new growth will be small unless you veg and heal it meaning by the time its done your back to square ONE!

If you defoliate during flower you WILL STUNT THE FUCK out of whatever branch you fucked with which pro-longs flower time, even if you could wait 2-4 weeks longer, you will have very leafy somewhat airy buds because again, the plant tried to compromise for what you have cut off.

If you defoliate too much during veg or flower, you get severe nute burn using the same feed. Its just not worth it, and while i did not get pop corn down below, the bag appeal looks like shit and the yields were NOT higher then my undefoliated clones. Nothing worse then holding a baseball nug in your hand that weighs 4 grams when the last nug of the same size from thr clone left alone was 8 grams. You guys can try whatever you like but keep in mind how old those defoliating threads are, NOBODY has been happy with the results except for tgat single dumbass that started the defo thread. Dont reply with "you're supposed to defo 21 days after stretch ect". Im not the only one whos tried and failed numerous times. *edit. Just so were clear, im talking about the "defoliation for increased yields method" pulling a fan here and there is not the same lol


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## outlier (Dec 20, 2015)

tropicalcannabispatient said:


> If a plant doesn't need a leaf she will discarded herself. So tired of this subject. Smh. Thats why u hear them later... HELP MY PLANT IS DYING!!! HELLPPPPP WHATS GOING ON WITH MY PLANTS?? SO TIRED OF THAT


lol...

Sorry to jack the thread. I've been removing the dead leaves that fall off the plants (wk 6 flower). I have accidentally knocked a few yellowing fan leaves off here and there. It seems you only need to brush them and they'll fall off.

Is this ok? Should I be more careful? I'm not rough by any means but I will pick out any dead leaves that have fallen off and are stuck in buds, branches, etc... basically anything that has detached, but has not fallen to the ground/pot. Only because I'm OCD about cleanliness. I vac my tent out weekly


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## 70's natureboy (Dec 20, 2015)

I think the defoliating crowd are indica growers. Indicas will grow so dense the sun never reaches the inside. I can see trimming some big fans because there are so friggin many more left to make sugar. With sativas it is totally unnecessary. That's why it's s a touchy subject. Sativa growers thing you're batshit crazy, and indica growers see the need for thinning and are pretty confident it does no harm. I am pretty confident it does no harm to bushy indicas too.


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## whitebb2727 (Dec 20, 2015)

No need to remove leaves. If for what ever reason a plant doesn't need a leaf like lack of light, it will shed it.

I like dense foliage. It has shed some lowers due to lack of light penetration.


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## SPLFreak808 (Dec 20, 2015)

whitebb2727 said:


> No need to remove leaves. If for what ever reason a plant doesn't need a leaf like lack of light, it will shed it.
> 
> I like dense foliage. It has shed some lowers due to lack of light penetration.
> View attachment 3568816


Man i know you've got your t5's down but those bitches would explode under a thouie! I gotta admit though, straight skills under those tubes lol


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## whitebb2727 (Dec 20, 2015)

SPLFreak808 said:


> Man i know you've got your t5's down but those bitches would explode under a thouie! I gotta admit though, straight skills under those tubes lol


Its only a 2x4. Thought about doing the same in a 4x4 and flowering with a 1000. 

I got my mind set on going diy cob.

Thank you.


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## saiyaneye (Dec 21, 2015)

Bugeye said:


> Defoliation is perfect for folks that have a psychological need to fuck with their plants as much as possible. To each their own.


I kind of would have to agree with you. I always feel like i want to do something with my plants. It may be something to do with me being OCD and ADHD.  Peaceful and enjoyable



chuck estevez said:


> BTW, topping, fiming and supercropping are training plants taking advantage of a thing called apical dominance, look it up. defoliating is not the same thing.


Thank you for telling me about Apical Dominance, I love learning new things.

With Topping, FIM, and SuperCropping are we manipulating the Apical Dominance phenomenon? Yes? What I am saying is; by cutting the top off your plant will allow the other nodes to develop quickly, while the other part of the plant comes back from shock. It will then heal, becoming the dominant growth area again; correct? So, with that being said, you are manipulating the Apical Dominance with Topping, FIM, and SuperCropping. 

When you remove ALL the large leaves from the main stem, it seems like the plant takes about two weeks to come out of shock, but when it does, your plant's nodes sky rocket, becoming normal sized leaves in like a month. From what I learned, is that it is almost better to do it all at once, instead of shocking the plant little by little. What I am getting at, yes this may seem counter productive to some, but when you combine advanced LST, especially when combining it with MainLining (Horizonal Growth). 

I think it really just depends on what you are trying to do with your plants.

================
It's all personal opinion and preference, the plant's yield may even be effected by defoliation; negative or positive. No tests that any of us know of have confirmed this. 

*I am strongly AGAINST defoliation during flowering.* I will agree that stress needs to be down to a bare minimum during flowering because the plant can turn hermie. We all know this. However, I am still sold on the need for defoliation, you need to wait for vigorous growth to re-establish though before you switch to flowering. It may seem like a flawed theory, but how come when you defoliate, you have way better established lower node development. More light. It allows more light to shine in to the parts of your plants. Plants are more or less meant to be grown outdoors, not meant for artificial lighting. There is a lot more readily available light produced by the sun than what MOST of us can replicate indoors with a 400w or 600w HPS.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 21, 2015)

70's natureboy said:


> I think the defoliating crowd are indica growers. Indicas will grow so dense the sun never reaches the inside.


The sun doesn't tneed to. That is a noob myth. Please lurk and read the other threads. https://www.rollitup.org/t/no-lower-budsites-do-not-need-light-to-develop-get-educated.829061/


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## 70's natureboy (Dec 21, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> The sun doesn't tneed to. That is a noob myth. Please lurk and read the other threads. https://www.rollitup.org/t/no-lower-budsites-do-not-need-light-to-develop-get-educated.829061/


Dude, why'd you send me to that thread? I would have believed you in the first place without the last 4 pages of pissin' and moanin'. LOL, Just kiddin', I usually agree with UB anyway, but, if you read a Uncle Ben thread you have to filter out a lot of douchebags.

When I had ridiculously bushy indicas, I did succumb to the temptation of clipping some fans. I didn't feel right doing it because I believe in letting nature do its thing. It doesn't matter now because I prefer 5' sativas and never need to worry about light shading. I can say that the popcorn vs nugs on the bottom branches is genetic in my experience. I have had different varieties side by side and one made wimpy buds on the bottom branches and the Diesel right beside it made nice tight nuggs on the bottom branches. I immediately saw the value in that little trait and those are the varieties I look for now. I actually call them popcorn buds because they are the size of popcorn, just the right size to pop in a bowl, but they are nice and tight. Other people call their wimpy buds popcorn and make it a bad name. Like I said I'll bet defoliaters are indica growers and I agree it ain't natural to be trimming fan leaves. gotta go.


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## Rev.thenatural (Dec 22, 2015)

You have too wait until the primary branches extend from the main stalk, before you pull the fan leaf or they stunt and gives the technique a bad name.

Once a branch has fully extended with its own fan leaves, you pull the large fan leaf that powered the main branch.

Once the primary branch has extended with its own two sets of leaves, you pull the top fan leaves under the node of the primary branch and open light for secondary branches.

This is the true correct process for defoliation too not stunt and increase yields galore as I try too teach the willing.

Done correctly outdoors and you'll increase your yields galore.
Then you juice your fan leaves with citric acid and cure disease and stay high 12 hours and not smoke and if your organic, use part of the leaves too crumble up as best fertilizer.
Those who have ears too hear.
Blessings, rev.thenatural


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## Resinhound (Dec 22, 2015)

Rev.thenatural said:


> You have too wait until the primary branches extend from the main stalk, before you pull the fan leaf or they stunt and gives the technique a bad name.
> 
> Once a branch has fully extended with its own fan leaves, you pull the large fan leaf that powered the main branch.
> 
> ...


Lets see some examples of your yeilds "increased galore" with these techniques.


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## Rev.thenatural (Dec 22, 2015)

Resinhound said:


> Lets see some examples of your yeilds "increased galore" with these techniques.


Just moved too Colorado last year.
Working on your proof as we speak.
Those who'd like too listen without proof, will benefit and see some of us have nothing too gain by lying too them.

I remember when topping and LST first started and they argued that also until the technique was learned properly and more used it correctly.

No different here, people do it wrong and get upset, follow above and will work every single time and the info was free.
Blessings, rev.thenatural


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## harris hawk (Dec 22, 2015)

Defoliation takes practice and works very well when grown LST . It is suggested to do a "heavy defoliation" in week 4 of veg and week 4 in flower. But one needs to remove fan leaves thru grow - no "sugar" leaves (if want some good resources,let me know)


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 22, 2015)

harris hawk said:


> But one needs to remove fan leaves thru grow - no "sugar" leaves (if want some good resources,let me know)


"Good resource"? As in stoners who don't have a clue about the function nor the importance of a leaf?


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## Rev.thenatural (Dec 22, 2015)

Quick tidbit and especially t5 and fluorescent and led users.
More light you smack on them, the less defoliation you need too do and the timing is slower and if you do it too fast under big light they take forever too recover.
Under less light, you defoliate more and the secondaries pop fast and recover quick.
The above pattern I gave followed under Flo's will blow your mind how much more you yield.
That's why outside trees when done properly do well as they are always stretching for ole Toma's.
Ya ten thousand lumens per square foot junkola lol.
Science has a pee poor understanding of how these trees utilize light.
Blessings, rev.thenatural


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## chuck estevez (Dec 22, 2015)

Rev.thenatural said:


> Quick tidbit and especially t5 and fluorescent and led users.
> More light you smack on them, the less defoliation you need too do and the timing is slower and if you do it too fast under big light they take forever too recover.
> Under less light, you defoliate more and the secondaries pop fast and recover quick.
> The above pattern I gave followed under Flo's will blow your mind how much more you yield.
> ...


like I always said, instead of pulling all your leaves to get light, just get a better light!!


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## Rev.thenatural (Dec 22, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> like I always said, instead of pulling all your leaves to get light, just get a better light!!


Its not about having so much light, but the proper light and correct par for cannabis but I'm not getting into that again.
The true purpose of defoliation is too create secondary branches off of the primaries and heck most boys haven't even vegged long enough in their growing careers too have seen a secondary.

Creating secondaries will increase yields period.
The gurus won't touch this subject as well as many others.
Whoa too their pride, when real info gets proven over the next couple years.

The bull is about too stop and hydro stores want be selling 1600 watts worth of lights for a 5x5 space too some poor grower who knows no better for profit.

They'll be throwing away their sodium bulbs and high red spectrum lights also.

Some of us just will not be quiet any more.
No matter the cost.
Rev.


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## chuck estevez (Dec 22, 2015)

Rev.thenatural said:


> Its not about having so much light, but the proper light and correct par for cannabis but I'm not getting into that again.
> The true purpose of defoliation is too create secondary branches off of the primaries and heck most boys haven't even vegged long enough in their growing careers too have seen a secondary.
> 
> Creating secondaries will increase yields period.
> ...


you mean vegging the plant longer for a bigger plant will give bigger yields, WHOA, I had no idea.


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## Resinhound (Dec 22, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> you mean vegging the plant longer for a bigger plant will give bigger yields, WHOA, I had no idea.


All will be known for those who see...


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## Rev.thenatural (Dec 22, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> you mean vegging the plant longer for a bigger plant will give bigger yields, WHOA, I had no idea.


Well I'm sure everyone else knows that too Mr estevez.
You can veg a tree too five feet tall and still not get pronounced secondaries however.
Learning proper defoliation for secondary branch production and strength is the key too massive yields.
Now, since nobody teaches this correctly, as on many things I discuss, I might as well be speaking alien.
What a mission!
However a good and worthwhile one.
Blessings, rev.the natural


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## chuck estevez (Dec 22, 2015)

Rev.thenatural said:


> Well I'm sure everyone else knows that too Mr estevez.
> You can veg a tree too five feet tall and still not get pronounced secondaries however.
> Learning proper defoliation for secondary branch production and strength is the key too massive yields.
> Now, since nobody teaches this correctly, as on many things I discuss, I might as well be speaking alien.
> ...


well mr.natural, you can if you use proper training, which isn't removing all the stuff you're trying to grow.


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## hyroot (Dec 22, 2015)

Look up shade avoidance. That covers it. Leaves store energy and food and process light into food. If parts are shaded and dont get enough light they will naturally adapt if need be.

Branching can actually lead to smaller yields. Smaller buds.

It's not more branches. It's more roots... the larger the root mass the more the yield.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 22, 2015)

Rev.thenatural said:


> Some of us just will not be quiet any more.
> No matter the cost.
> Rev.


bullshit ~ Heard it all before and from the same young know-it-alls. It'll "cost" alright, in yields. YOU need to learn what drives bud production.

None of your wonderful info has any degree of botanical truth. I'm a seasoned gardener both commercially and privately and if you'll bother to read a few of the defoliation threads you might learn something about botany. Noobs like you hate books on horticulture so that resource is out.


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## Resinhound (Dec 22, 2015)

Got UB and the rev in here...lets get this party started.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 22, 2015)

We have another poser. In response to Pastor Natural we have this.....



testiclees said:


> Kindness is to be praised. However your clueless rants are unkind to those trying to learn.
> 
> You seem to be as unacquainted with god as you are with organics, science in general and plant lighting specifically.
> 
> That sanctimonious bullshit you espouse may be therapeutic for you but for readers here it would be more instructive if you spent your energies in silent meditation.


https://www.rollitup.org/t/lighting-best-for-cannabis.881501/

I don't take lightly to posers if you haven't noticed.


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## Resinhound (Dec 22, 2015)

I just want to see some of these buds "galore" all he ever posts is some clones or seedlings hes gonna mate with a cabbage or some bullshit.


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## Rev.thenatural (Dec 22, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> well mr.natural, you can if you use proper training, which isn't removing all the stuff you're trying to grow.


Removing fan leaves properly strengthens the secondary branches too hold more bud mass and makes the entire primary fill out also, creating torpedo size buds and no stems too be seen, when especially not cut at some miserable 9-11 weeks.
There's no sense in going on as this is for sure a picture proof generation.
Fan leaves are also used instead of being tossed like garbage for many benefits and so much is missed out on because of misinformation.
So defoliating serves two purposes too those who have wisdom.
One gives more bud when done properly, every time period.
Two for those who know and those that care too know.
Fan leaves can be juiced too prevent cancer and many health benefits when grown organic or made with citric acid and I'll make you a smoothie from 12 fan leaves that will roast you for 12 hours non stop and if you have intestinal problems, will be cured in a week.
You learn the benefits of fan leaves and how too activate the cbd and you'll leave your bud too ripen and cure more as you won't need it.
God so many are lost and all you can do is call out... Fellow worm over here! Can anybody hear me!?
I woke up, why so many content with their sleep?
My brothers will not sleep much longer.
So in ending, nothing is wasted.
Want the best fertilizer for cannabis?
Feed it itself.
Dry the leaves, crumble them and give sugar water and watch the magic.
Don't believe it?
Try it and come back and tell me I lied too you....
Rev.


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## chuck estevez (Dec 22, 2015)

No defoiling needed


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 22, 2015)

I get the feeling it's "him" again. What was that guy's handle back then, the one that kept on with this off the wall gardening stuff? He was in this thread: http://rollitup.org/t/giving-defoliation-during-flower-a-try.839655/page-128#post-11170543


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## chuck estevez (Dec 22, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> I get the feeling it's "him" again. What was that guy's handle back then, the one that kept on with this off the wall gardening stuff? He was in this thread: http://rollitup.org/t/giving-defoliation-during-flower-a-try.839655/page-128#post-11170543


pik-booster, cannabil and cannadude, all the same


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## bict (Dec 22, 2015)

Rev.thenatural said:


> Removing fan leaves properly strengthens the secondary branches too hold more bud mass and makes the entire primary fill out also, creating torpedo size buds and no stems too be seen, when especially not cut at some miserable 9-11 weeks.
> There's no sense in going on as this is for sure a picture proof generation.
> Fan leaves are also used instead of being tossed like garbage for many benefits and so much is missed out on because of misinformation.
> So defoliating serves two purposes too those who have wisdom.
> ...


What?


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## Rev.thenatural (Dec 22, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> bullshit ~ Heard it all before and from the same young know-it-alls. It'll "cost" alright, in yields. YOU need to learn what drives bud production.
> 
> None of your wonderful info has any degree of botanical truth. I'm a seasoned gardener both commercially and privately and if you'll bother to read a few of the defoliation threads you might learn something about botany. Noobs like you hate books on horticulture so that resource is out.


Its OK uncle Ben.
I use too be ate up with fear also, that some horses arse know it all redneck from nowhere might show up and make the botanist rewrite the books!
He will as his teacher was the best in the universe.
When your worm proves this by his teachers leave, you will know all the worm has been spouting on here for months was not only true, it was free!
Just know, I'm in good company.
Rev.


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## Resinhound (Dec 22, 2015)

~snap~ cactuses not cabbages...thaaats right,silly me.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 22, 2015)

Rev.thenatural said:


> Its OK uncle Ben.
> I use too be ate up with fear also, that some horses arse know it all redneck from nowhere might show up and make the botanist rewrite the books!
> He will as his teacher was the best in the universe.
> When your worm proves this by his teachers leave, you will know all the worm has been spouting on here for months was not only true, it was free!
> ...


To show there's no hard feelings, a caring card from above. 



Christmas in Texas. No oranges or lemons were harmed on this tree.


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## testiclees (Dec 22, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> We have another poser. In response to Pastor Natural we have this.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not sure I get what your putting down there

please explain

im wondering because your christmas card reeks like the toxic idiocy of a bloated, bigoted nit wit

You dont take lightly to "posers" lol who gives a fuck pompous gas bag


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## chuck estevez (Dec 22, 2015)

wow, Just went and looked at THE REV's plants and i must say, THEY LOOK LIKE SHIT, sorry Bro, that's the truth.


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## blowinmaryfast (Dec 22, 2015)

SPLFreak808 said:


> I just dont fucking get it no more. I have personally tried 8 different cuts only 6 of them made it to flower.
> 
> If you defoliate during veg, not only does it stunt the plant but the plant will make new leaves higher up to compromise for what you cut off. The new growth will be small unless you veg and heal it meaning by the time its done your back to square ONE!
> 
> ...


Newb poster here. I get it. But this is erroneous. Maybe it didn't work in your set up! Maybe it will be more effective in a system where nutes are fed to the roots very frequently. I respect your stance and the majority in previous discussion here. but simply because you back pure organics and don't support certain types of growing like hydro with bottled nutes you shouldn't bash anyone or a metho that could give them 1to 1 1/4 per 600w. I've learned tons here and had rooms to put it to experiment over the past 5 years.i love riu. but lately I see so much bashing because some peeps are on someone's bandwagon. Nothing helpful to say? Go check your temps and humidity!


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## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 22, 2015)

So much RETARDED NOOBS HERE!!


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## SPLFreak808 (Dec 22, 2015)

blowinmaryfast said:


> Newb poster here. I get it. But this is erroneous. Maybe it didn't work in your set up! Maybe it will be more effective in a system where nutes are fed to the roots very frequently. I respect your stance and the majority in previous discussion here. but simply because you back pure organics and don't support certain types of growing like hydro with bottled nutes you shouldn't bash anyone or a metho that could give them 1to 1 1/4 per 600w. I've learned tons here and had rooms to put it to experiment over the past 5 years.i love riu. but lately I see so much bashing because some peeps are on someone's bandwagon. Nothing helpful to say? Go check your temps and humidity!


Where did i bash hydro or bottled nutes? I'm not sure what you are trying to say? If my roots dont have to break down organic nutrients it will work? Hell i still dont know if it works because I've never had one that outyielded the other! I dont jump on nobodys bandwagon. I grow for my own medication so i dont got much to loose, therefore i experiment, i have followed 2 defoliation threads and tried them 3 seperate times! My conclusion is, im a fucking horrible defoliation grower,defoliation does not work or I've got way too much light to begin with. The buds looked like shit! They are leafy as fuck! The plant noticeably stresses out every time you snip a few leaves off you get stunted for a few days. Snip too much and you'll get stunted for a week+. If you have a method that actually works, post it up here. Maybe you can be the 3rd guy to convince me to try it again. You cant give the roots too much if the foliage is all hacked up. You really blame my temps/rh before my genetics?


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## Xare (Dec 22, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> View attachment 3569931
> No defoiling needed


Your Argument isnt valid, because the purpose of Defoliating is NOT to grow bigger main buds. That is not where you make up extra yield.

When you Defoliate you allow light to reach the lower bud sites and it fills in the canopy better. The smaller buds become larger and add to your overall yield. It makes for a more efficient grow.

The top cola budsites are already in the full brightness of the light, because they are above everything else and they never get shaded.

When you are defoliating you want to remove the large fan leaves that block the light from reaching the lower bud sites so that they can fill in and swell up, instead of becoming popcorn fluffy nugs.

So you end up with alot more of your weight from the lower buds from the rest of the canopy, not top budsites, those stay the same.


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## Resinhound (Dec 22, 2015)

Xare said:


> Your Argument isnt valid, because the purpose of Defoliating is NOT to grow bigger main buds. That is not where you make up extra yield.
> 
> When you Defoliate you allow light to reach the lower bud sites and it fills in the canopy better. The smaller buds become larger and add to your overall yield. It makes for a more efficient grow.
> 
> ...



Yes,yes I know..cant have leaves blocking light...doing their job,now can we.


----------



## blowinmaryfast (Dec 22, 2015)

You're obviously an experienced grower. 808 I'm not looking to change your mind just for u not to call us all dumb as fuck. Obviously this could be strain dependent as some are more finicky to any pruning but I haven't ran defoliation on them for these reasons. It seems to work well with most indica strains. My cripy og loves it also. Alternatively Sour d has no prob with it but I keep her on a totally diff set up bc the it's whole deal... Haha. I try to be as organic as possible with the sour d. My all day medication.

Anyhow. I run a 1-2 week veg so I'm not getting much over growth to cut away for even penetrating light. I will however clip the oldest, largest fan leaves that are shading lower nodes without any other change to my regimen. Once flowering I will de leaf a couple of sessions as needed. Never past week 3. Water once after de leaf. I have noticed my frequently fed plants in much smaller containers will rebound within a couple days. Completely "clothed" within a week. With that said I see no decrease in the bud growth. Only tighter packing of the nodes. Possibly a more even canopy. I could skip a fn rock across my canopy but Its not an abusive cut. Lol. I have cut my littles down from nearly a 7grams per plant. To2-2.5 grams. Per 1.6oz of dispensary Quality meds. When defoliate in flower I'm looking to have all the older ,large ,rugged leaves taken. its sort of going by eye at this point. I'm not stripping every fan leaf. That WOUlD be nuts. I'd say 70% of fans taken off.


----------



## Xare (Dec 22, 2015)

Resinhound said:


> Yes,yes I know..cant have leaves blocking light...doing their job,now can we.


 Not if they are blocking light to a lower budsite, no. Because if you dont get light to the lower budsite then it will turn into popcorn buds that are wispy and not dense.

And when you remove the fan leaves light is able to get to the budsites and make them bigger.

Are you trying to grow bud or leaf ?


----------



## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 22, 2015)

Xare said:


> Your Argument isnt valid, because the purpose of Defoliating is NOT to grow bigger main buds. That is not where you make up extra yield.
> 
> When you Defoliate you allow light to reach the lower bud sites and it fills in the canopy better. The smaller buds become larger and add to your overall yield. It makes for a more efficient grow.
> 
> ...


If u keep an even canopy u dont have to worry about popcorn nugs, with A good light supply  LIKE THIS. U DONT NEED SHITTY DEFOLIATION


----------



## blowinmaryfast (Dec 22, 2015)

Yes. Tropical those look so danky dank. Let's see those bottoms. How tall are they? Container size? 

Sorry about the light in the photos.


----------



## saiyaneye (Dec 22, 2015)

VERY Nice plant.

I am going to take some before and afters of mine, going to be a bit for them to bounce back. I am in VEG THOUGH, I dont like doing this but like once in flowering  I am waiting on my plant to respond to FIM also.

You will laugh at it when I pull leaves off in veg.


----------



## SPLFreak808 (Dec 22, 2015)

blowinmaryfast said:


> You're obviously an experienced grower. 808 I'm not looking to change your mind just for u not to call us all dumb as fuck. Obviously this could be strain dependent as some are more finicky to any pruning but I haven't ran defoliation on them for these reasons. It seems to work well with most indica strains. My cripy og loves it also. Alternatively Sour d has no prob with it but I keep her on a totally diff set up bc the it's whole deal... Haha. I try to be as organic as possible with the sour d. My all day medication.
> 
> Anyhow. I run a 1-2 week veg so I'm not getting much over growth to cut away for even penetrating light. I will however clip the oldest, largest fan leaves that are shading lower nodes without any other change to my regimen. Once flowering I will de leaf a couple of sessions as needed. Never past week 3. Water once after de leaf. I have noticed my frequently fed plants in much smaller containers will rebound within a couple days. Completely "clothed" within a week. With that said I see no decrease in the bud growth. Only tighter packing of the nodes. Possibly a more even canopy. I could skip a fn rock across my canopy but Its not an abusive cut. Lol. I have cut my littles down from nearly a 7grams per plant. To2-2.5 grams. Per 1.6oz of dispensary Quality meds. When defoliate in flower I'm looking to have all the older ,large ,rugged leaves taken. its sort of going by eye at this point. I'm not stripping every fan leaf. That WOUlD be nuts. I'd say 70% of fans taken off.


I literally did not call ANYONE dumb as fuck, but whoever wrote that defoliation thread with over 300 pages can feel free to wear the shoe! Both of them!

Let me ask you, how much longer does your harvest take after removing 70% of the "oldest" fans during week 2-3 (you mean the fans above node 4/5 right? Not the old ones on the bottom). Btw i dont consider myself experienced, all those dudes in that "bandwagon" you speak of grow some top notch sativa's every fucking season that makes my flowers look like shit.


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## whitebb2727 (Dec 22, 2015)

No defoliation. No need for it. Even canopy.


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## saiyaneye (Dec 22, 2015)

https://www.420magazine.com/forums/hydroponic-gardening/176415-increasing-yield-defoliation-indoors-whats-mean-how-do.html

That is what turned me on to this a few years ago when I read this. It looks like he took some off during flower, that I don't do. Like I said maybe once, and not very aggressive.


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## blowinmaryfast (Dec 22, 2015)

Lol. It was dumb ass not dumb fuck but I'm sorry to say I may not become familiar with that. 300 forum pages? Wow....

Def not here to diss any one, just to be clear. The brother is like my idol. I'm striving to make as much experimental organic space as possible just can't bet my meds on it yet. I do however want to point out many on here have a different style for whatever reason and this is a proven legitimate technique. 

808 I lollipop quite high as you can see in my photo. And I do go to the bottom as long as there are large enough leaves to cover and cluster down there.(esp on leafy strains, bubblegum, etc) 

I run a 9 week schedy 7-10 day flush with og being my late finish and she is always spot on at 60-63. 50/50 amber.


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## SPLFreak808 (Dec 22, 2015)

saiyaneye said:


> https://www.420magazine.com/forums/hydroponic-gardening/176415-increasing-yield-defoliation-indoors-whats-mean-how-do.html
> 
> That is what turned me on to this a few years ago when I read this. It looks like he took some off during flower, that I don't do. Like I said maybe once, and not very aggressive.


This guy is nuts. And his weed looks like utter shit imo. Looks like he plucks them all the way through flower

"After stripping at 21 days, there are two basic theories being used. One is to again hit them hard at 45 days, while another is to constantly pluck daily as fan leaves "develop. I choose to do the latter. It gives me something to do and I hate seeing leaves where I could look at bud instead."


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## a mongo frog (Dec 22, 2015)

blowinmaryfast said:


> Yes. Tropical those look so danky dank. Let's see those bottoms. How tall are they? Container size?
> 
> Sorry about the light in the photos.


Why did thou do that?


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## blowinmaryfast (Dec 22, 2015)

whitebb2727 said:


> View attachment 3570358
> No defoliation. No need for it. Even canopy.


Beautiful, whitebb2727, those are some sexy girls under there. It looks like one plant to me but I must be seeing through smoke lenses. That would be giant!


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## SPLFreak808 (Dec 22, 2015)

blowinmaryfast said:


> Lol. It was dumb ass not dumb fuck but I'm sorry to say I may not become familiar with that. 300 forum pages? Wow....
> 
> Def not here to diss any one, just to be clear. The brother is like my idol. I'm striving to make as much experimental organic space as possible just can't bet my meds on it yet. I do however want to point out many on here have a different style for whatever reason and this is a proven legitimate technique.
> 
> ...


I should have just simply asked, does plucking 70% of old fans extend your flowering time? It sure did for me.


----------



## blowinmaryfast (Dec 22, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Why did thou do that?[/QUOTE
> Thou must light the viny garden in the deep chambers of my garage sir


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## blowinmaryfast (Dec 22, 2015)

Sorry. No extended flowering time. When I occasionally run purples they stick to eight weeks. Thoroughly colored


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## a mongo frog (Dec 22, 2015)

Wouldn't less plants help if thats the case? Or more light? I mean you already lollipoped, but then you took all the leaves off? It looks like you have a great grow area. So do you get bigger buds that way or something?


----------



## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 22, 2015)

blowinmaryfast said:


> Yes. Tropical those look so danky dank. Let's see those bottoms. How tall are they? Container size?
> 
> Sorry about the light in the photos.


18 gallons pot, no bottoms just tops


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## SPLFreak808 (Dec 22, 2015)

blowinmaryfast said:


> Sorry. No extended flowering time. When I occasionally run purples they stick to eight weeks. Thoroughly colored


Wow. They just keep on growing day after day of flower even though you remove all those fans during flower! Wtf!


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## blowinmaryfast (Dec 22, 2015)

Not bigger buds. But I believe it helps with stacking my nodes. Doing this in early flower,when the stretch occurs has been a way to put the brakes on the plant so to speak. Leading me to believe my weight is increased from the small to medium nugs that are dense as tops. And also identical dank quality. I have ran fewer plants but there is no need. I want to maximize the space I have while keeping quality of course


----------



## a mongo frog (Dec 22, 2015)

blowinmaryfast said:


> Not bigger buds. But I believe it helps with stacking my nodes. Doing this in early flower,when the stretch occurs has been a way to put the brakes on the plant so to speak. Leading me to believe my weight is increased from the small to medium nugs that are dense as tops. And also identical dank quality. I have ran fewer plants but there is no need. I want to maximize the space I have while keeping quality of course


Would love to see some of your late flower pics and some finished bud shots.


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## SPLFreak808 (Dec 22, 2015)

blowinmaryfast said:


> Not bigger buds. But I believe it helps with stacking my nodes. Doing this in early flower,when the stretch occurs has been a way to put the brakes on the plant so to speak. Leading me to believe my weight is increased from the small to medium nugs that are dense as tops. And also identical dank quality. I have ran fewer plants but there is no need. I want to maximize the space I have while keeping quality of course


Well yes. If you strip the plant, it WILL NOT stretch untill it makes more fans, great when you want to push your entire plant closer to the light, that actually makes much more sense why yield goes up BUT i still have a hard time believing that the plant doesnt get stunted taking all those during flower. Whatever branch you fucked with, will have to "re-configure" the way it processes food and light. When you pluck your buds off early, does it not stunt your plant back a 3-6 days?


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## blowinmaryfast (Dec 22, 2015)

Honestly I wish I had a couple more plant science classes under my belt to examine the reconfiguring of photosynthesis. esp with cannabis plants. Would be sweet. Yes any stretch is stopped but I see no decrease in bud growth normally. I have over stripped a plant a couple of times to see even bud growth slow for a 2 day period but this was 95% fans. Scared the shit outta me. Was praying to the canna gods.


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## whitebb2727 (Dec 22, 2015)

I normally say no to it.

Everything has a time and place. I have to open up and thin certain plants out doors here. Fall tends to be very hot and humid here. I have to thin to keep from getting rot.

I also have to guerilla grow. I have to plant with surrounding foilage. They have to compete for light.

They grow tall fast. I bend and break limbs to keep them down. I do sometimes cut the larf on bottom that isn't producing.


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## blowinmaryfast (Dec 22, 2015)

Sorry, amongofrog, I have no current late flower photos. Only some finished that I'm holding out on.


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## saiyaneye (Dec 23, 2015)

SPLFreak808 said:


> Well yes. If you strip the plant, it WILL NOT stretch untill it makes more fans, great when you want to push your entire plant closer to the light, that actually makes much more sense why yield goes up BUT i still have a hard time believing that the plant doesnt get stunted taking all those during flower. Whatever branch you fucked with, will have to "re-configure" the way it processes food and light. When you pluck your buds off early, does it not stunt your plant back a 3-6 days?


Actually, purposely stressing the plant makes sense on a way to stop stretch. It does not stretch once it recovers from shock?


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## chuck estevez (Dec 23, 2015)

harris hawk said:


> *Defoliation takes practice and works very well when grown LST* . It is suggested to do a "heavy defoliation" in week 4 of veg and week 4 in flower. But one needs to remove fan leaves thru grow - no "sugar" leaves (if want some good resources,let me know)


 How does pulling leaves off end up being LOW STRESS??
dumbest statement on defoiling yet.


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## chuck estevez (Dec 23, 2015)

saiyaneye said:


> Actually, purposely stressing the plant makes sense on a way to stop stretch. It does not stretch once it recovers from shock?


stressing a plant is just stupid, why you want to hurt the ladies?


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## saiyaneye (Dec 23, 2015)

You don't, I even stated that in a previous post, I am against defoliating during flower. Once or twice MAX.

Stress CAN equal Hermie....

I've had some super stable strains that took light leaks for like 1.5 days and never hermied on me. Some other plants hermied in same tent. I left the light in the room on and left the tent open. Not strong light but defiantly a light leak.

Some strains are very resilient.


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## blowinmaryfast (Dec 23, 2015)

Yes. Splfreak808, correct. It will put the brakes on upward growth until the fan leaves have recovered, within a week on strains that accept defol.
As in all technique timing is key. If I complete my last defol just as my stretch ends. The plant has started stacking fat buds by then. It isn't so stressed tht it wants to bolt.
Btw I have ran this more than I can't count on hands. Never had bananas unless I had a light leak. I'm sure it's strain dependent. My Sour diesel can take it but more than once and I risk bananas last couple weeks. Ouch trying to avoid those pollen sacs for now.


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## hyroot (Dec 23, 2015)

saiyaneye said:


> You don't, I even stated that in a previous post, I am against defoliating during flower. Once or twice MAX.
> 
> Stress CAN equal Hermie....
> 
> ...


That's just genetics and breeding selection. If you have strong stable genetics. Stress and light leaks will not cause any hermies. It may slow growth. Mj is the most adaptable plant. Defoliation of healthy leaves will slow growth and stunt flower development as well.


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## saiyaneye (Dec 23, 2015)

hyroot said:


> That's just genetics and breeding selection. If you have strong stable genetics. Stress and light leaks will not cause any hermies. It may slow growth. Mj is the most adaptable plant. Defoliation of healthy leaves will slow growth and stunt flower development as well.


I think everyone on here would agree with that.


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## chuck estevez (Dec 23, 2015)

stress will bring out the hermie trait if there is one, that is a fact.


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## hyroot (Dec 23, 2015)

http://m.plantphysiol.org/content/122/3/621.full


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## Xare (Dec 23, 2015)

whitebb2727 said:


> View attachment 3570358
> No defoliation. No need for it. Even canopy.


 Defoliation is a Canopy Management Technique. 

So is Scrogging, like what you have done with the screen. 

Both methods are trying to achieve the same goal.


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## chuck estevez (Dec 23, 2015)

Xare said:


> Defoliation is a Canopy Management Technique.
> 
> So is Scrogging, like what you have done with the screen.
> 
> Both methods are trying to achieve the same goal.


scrogging is the style of growing that makes up for lack of penetrating light , defoiling is growing too big of plants for your light and trying to compensate for it by stripping the good stuff and claiming it's good for the lower parts.


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## saiyaneye (Dec 23, 2015)

I want to learn about selective harvesting, I have done it once. I cut the tops and let the little popcorns go for another month. I just had dense popcorn buds. It was on an Iced Widow.


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## Xare (Dec 23, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> scrogging is the style of growing that makes up for lack of penetrating light , defoiling is growing too big of plants for your light and trying to compensate for it by stripping the good stuff and claiming it's good for the lower parts.


 I defoliate in a SOG grow. So I dont grow plants that are too big. In fact its the opposite.

I take clones that are fully rooted and I flower them directly into 12 /12


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## whitebb2727 (Dec 23, 2015)

Xare said:


> Defoliation is a Canopy Management Technique.
> 
> So is Scrogging, like what you have done with the screen.
> 
> Both methods are trying to achieve the same goal.


No, they are not. Defoliation removes leaves. Leaves are responsible for photosynthesis. Photosynthesis is how a plant makes food and grows. If you remove leaves, you have less photosynthesis. If you have less photosynthesis, you have less food and energy. If you have less food and energy, you have a plant slow in growth.


No other crop do the farmers rip leaves off, period. They may prune fruit trees but that is totally different.



Now on to scrog.
Cannabis grows with (apical dominance) which is like a Christmas tree. One main bud.
When you top or scrog you break apical dominance. The break in dominance causes (auxins) to be redistributed evenly among the multiple buds at even level.



Take the time to look up the words I highlighted for you so you can understand what you are talking about.


Sorry, its basic botany. There is no way you can convince me that removing what a plant needs will help it.

Now if you really think I'm wrong, feel free to post pics of some plants you defoliated.


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## churchhaze (Dec 23, 2015)

Instead of removing the leaves blocking lower bud sites.... start flowering 1 week earlier next time so you don't have as many lower bud sites.

If your plants have already grown beyond what your lighting can handle and you don't want to add more light, don't cut the top leaves to let light reach bottom leaves.... cut the lower sucker branches with stems the size of a toothpick or less. It's best to cut these sucker branches off when they're very young so you don't waste energy growing them in the first place. All plant mass you chop off is wasted time. Smaller mass chopped, smaller time wasted.

Cutting top fan leaves makes no sense unless they're already fried (maybe you got lazy and they hit the light or something). Then it makes sense to get them out of the way... Why you'd chop them otherwise makes 0 sense.


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## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 23, 2015)

Xare said:


> Defoliation is a Canopy Management Technique.
> 
> So is Scrogging, like what you have done with the screen.
> 
> Both methods are trying to achieve the same goal.


Where are u guys learning this shit? Who's teaching this retardedness? Ohhh. I know now blessings rev the natural lol


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## harris hawk (Dec 24, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> How does pulling leaves off end up being LOW STRESS??
> dumbest statement on defoiling yet.


sorry if statement is "dumb" chuck estevez - thought this site was a friendly site and that people don't put down other people's efforts to help other growers =- your comment doesn't help any body but your self and also shows what type of person you are - have a Merry Xmass and hope the new year brings you more consideration for others


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## harris hawk (Dec 24, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> stressing a plant is just stupid, why you want to hurt the ladies?


Another statement that show's what type of person you are -bet you are single - do you have any friend's if so bet they really like your smart-ass attitude- I will pray for you friend !!!!!


----------



## chuck estevez (Dec 24, 2015)

harris hawk said:


> Another statement that show's what type of person you are -bet you are single - do you have any friend's if so bet they really like your smart-ass attitude- I will pray for you friend !!!!!


please don't pray for me, I don't believe in fairy tales, I also don't care that I hurt your poor little feelings. You made a stupid statement, i pointed it out and now you feel stupid because you know i am right, and now you're trying to make me out to be something you think I am. I ain't your friend and I don't give a shit, so suck it.

PS. your mom like's that I am single, she gets real jealous.


----------



## chuck estevez (Dec 24, 2015)

I also like how you tried to act like you are some kind of nice religious guy while attacking my character with insults.
Kind of makes you a fuckin hypocrite, doesn't it?


----------



## harris hawk (Dec 24, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> please don't pray for me, I don't believe in fairy tales, I also don't care that I hurt your poor little feelings. You made a stupid statement, i pointed it out and now you feel stupid because you know i am right, and now you're trying to make me out to be something you think I am. I ain't your friend and I don't give a shit, so suck it.
> 
> PS. your mom like's that I am single, she gets real jealous.


 I agree - PEACE - hope the coming year bring you & family good times. Happy new years !


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## harris hawk (Dec 24, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> I also like how you tried to act like you are some kind of nice religious guy while attacking my character with insults.
> Kind of makes you a fuckin hypocrite, doesn't it?


Thanks ! didn't know that -guess one learns something new every day - Peace - Be happy on the hoilday's


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## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 24, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> please don't pray for me, I don't believe in fairy tales, I also don't care that I hurt your poor little feelings. You made a stupid statement, i pointed it out and now you feel stupid because you know i am right, and now you're trying to make me out to be something you think I am. I ain't your friend and I don't give a shit, so suck it.
> 
> PS. your mom like's that I am single, she gets real jealous.


LMFAO


----------



## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 24, 2015)

Xare said:


> Defoliation is a Canopy Management Technique.
> 
> So is Scrogging, like what you have done with the screen.
> 
> Both methods are trying to achieve the same goal.


More like a popcorn training technique.


----------



## Impman (Dec 24, 2015)

harris hawk said:


> sorry if statement is "dumb" chuck estevez - thought this site was a friendly site and that people don't put down other people's efforts to help other growers =- your comment doesn't help any body but your self and also shows what type of person you are - have a Merry Xmass and hope the new year brings you more consideration for others


don't trip on him. hit the ignore button. he is a local troll that has never posted a single grow pick.


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## chuck estevez (Dec 24, 2015)

Impman said:


> don't trip on him. hit the ignore button. he is a local troll that has never posted a single grow pick.


I have posted plenty, seems I have ANOTHER butthurt homie, i keep collecting them, yee haaaa


   
WHAT NOW BITCH?


----------



## Impman (Dec 24, 2015)

I have asked a few professors with Doctorates in plant science about removing leaves. they say it is a bad idea. I have seen a few YouTube videos and side by side comparisons and it does not seem to hurt the plants though. you can find any answer you are looking for on RIU. I would be very careful about some advice you get though. Take some college classes and get a plant science book if you can. One particular "grower" here claims decades of experience and has many followers, but some of the information he gives is really bad. as in bogus. don't be scared of by his trolls


----------



## chuck estevez (Dec 24, 2015)

^^^^^ this guy,lol


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## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 24, 2015)

Impman said:


> I have asked a few professors with Doctorates in plant science about removing leaves. they say it is a bad idea. I have seen a few YouTube videos and side by side comparisons and it does not seem to hurt the plants though. you can find any answer you are looking for on RIU. I would be very careful about some advice you get though. Take some college classes and get a plant science book if you can. One particular "grower" here claims decades of experience and has many followers, but some of the information he gives is really bad. as in bogus. don't be scared of by his trolls


U dont have any idea what u are talking about, u just repeating what others say..


----------



## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 24, 2015)

Impman said:


> I have asked a few professors with Doctorates in plant science about removing leaves. they say it is a bad idea. I have seen a few YouTube videos and side by side comparisons and it does not seem to hurt the plants though. you can find any answer you are looking for on RIU. I would be very careful about some advice you get though. Take some college classes and get a plant science book if you can. One particular "grower" here claims decades of experience and has many followers, but some of the information he gives is really bad. as in bogus. don't be scared of by his trolls


Thats kind of contradicting statement.. Smh noobs


----------



## chuck estevez (Dec 24, 2015)

tropicalcannabispatient said:


> Thats kind of contradicting statement.. Smh noobs


it's more of a BUTT HURT statement, see how he tries to talk shit on @Uncle Ben and anyone who follows him. Yet he doesn't have enough balls to call him out by name. see how he started with me, because i am one of UB's supposed trolls. Funny How I can grow a 12 gram nug when all I get is bogus info from UB,huh? lol


----------



## Impman (Dec 24, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> it's more of a BUTT HURT statement, see how he tries to talk shit on @Uncle Ben and anyone who follows him. Yet he doesn't have enough balls to call him out by name. see how he started with me, because i am one of UB's supposed trolls. Funny How I can grow a 12 gram nug when all I get is bogus info from UB,huh? lol


oh, but I actually grow weed. for reals. not in pretend land. I repeated what I had a discussion with an actual plant scientist about, not what was said here. 
you dont grow , you troll.


----------



## Impman (Dec 24, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> I have posted plenty, seems I have ANOTHER butthurt homie, i keep collecting them, yee haaaa
> 
> 
> View attachment 3571232 View attachment 3571233 View attachment 3571234
> WHAT NOW BITCH?


looks like some outdoor you didn't trim properly. that can be broken into several nugs


----------



## whitebb2727 (Dec 24, 2015)

Impman said:


> looks like some outdoor you didn't trim properly. that can be broken into several nugs


Let's see a pic then. If not shut up.


----------



## chuck estevez (Dec 24, 2015)

Limpman said:


> looks like some outdoor you didn't trim properly. that can be broken into several nugs


looks like you don't have a clue what you are talking about,But i don't grow for reals,lol where is your pic troll?


----------



## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 24, 2015)

Impman said:


> oh, but I actually grow weed. for reals. not in pretend land. I repeated what I had a discussion with an actual plant scientist about, not what was said here.
> you dont grow , you troll.


U say u talked with a scientist about defoliation and he told U IT WASN'T A GOOD IDEA, what else u need? And who u saying that doesn't grow?


----------



## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 24, 2015)

Impman said:


> oh, but I actually grow weed. for reals. not in pretend land. I repeated what I had a discussion with an actual plant scientist about, not what was said here.
> you dont grow , you troll.


Lets c ur plants


----------



## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 24, 2015)

Impman said:


> looks like some outdoor you didn't trim properly. that can be broken into several nugs


This noob is a joke and a half. LMFAO


----------



## chuck estevez (Dec 24, 2015)

tropicalcannabispatient said:


> Lets c ur plants


he doesn't grow for real, he just plays one on the internet

The butt hurt is SUPER strong with this one


----------



## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 24, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> he doesn't grow for real, he just plays one on the internet
> 
> The butt hurt is SUPER strong with this one


LMFAO


----------



## chuck estevez (Dec 24, 2015)

let's translate the real meaning to LIMPMAN's post

I have argued in the past with UB and his methods, Then i went and talked with some plant scientists and they told me UB was right. I am so butthurt, I can't admit I am wrong, so I troll the boards calling people what i really am.


----------



## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 24, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> let's translate the real meaning to LIMPMAN's post
> 
> I have argued in the past with UB and his methods, Then i went and talked with some plant scientists and they told me UB was right. I am so butthurt, I can't admit I am wrong, so I troll the boards calling people what i really am.


On point!!


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## chuck estevez (Dec 24, 2015)

gee, wonder where dude went, thought he was going to show us an awesome garden. It's easy to call people out, then tuck tail and run like a little bitch. just shows you what this bitch is all about.


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## Impman (Dec 24, 2015)

shhhh. Indoor, not chucks backyard boogy


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## chuck estevez (Dec 24, 2015)

Impman said:


> shhhh. Indoor, not chucks backyard boogy


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## Resinhound (Dec 24, 2015)

Xare said:


> Not if they are blocking light to a lower budsite, no. Because if you dont get light to the lower budsite then it will turn into popcorn buds that are wispy and not dense.
> 
> And when you remove the fan leaves light is able to get to the budsites and make them bigger.
> 
> * Are you trying to grow bud or leaf ? *


Classic answer...really.


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## harris hawk (Dec 24, 2015)

Impman said:


> don't trip on him. hit the ignore button. he is a local troll that has never posted a single grow pick.


Thanks ! thought this site was for helping, sharing knowledge ,ect and not to but people down, ect


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## chuck estevez (Dec 24, 2015)

harris hawk said:


> Thanks ! thought this site was for helping, sharing knowledge ,ect and not to but people down, ect


aren't you done repeating yourself god boy? looking awful hard for friends aren't you?


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## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 24, 2015)

Xare said:


> Your Argument isnt valid, because the purpose of Defoliating is NOT to grow bigger main buds. That is not where you make up extra yield.
> 
> When you Defoliate you allow light to reach the lower bud sites and it fills in the canopy better. The smaller buds become larger and add to your overall yield. It makes for a more efficient grow.
> 
> ...


I think i understand your retarded statement now, so u defoliate to make popcorn nugs bigger for "extra" harvest? Why in first place grow only tops and NOT popcorn shit, why insted of defoliate the plant just lollipop the popcorn and redirect all the energy into growing bigger tops? Because it doesn't make to stunt the plant for a month to grow bigger popcorn nugs the time u loose in recovery u can spended better in growing bigger tops.. like this.. That way u dont have to grow shitty popcorn. Who want popcorn anyways? Merry Xmas to all!!


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## Impman (Dec 24, 2015)

harris hawk said:


> Thanks ! thought this site was for helping, sharing knowledge ,ect and not to but people down, ect


it is a good site. you just found yourself in the vortex of the apex of RIU trolls. post anything on defoliation and you get called a noob and stupid. seriously, there are only a few of these guys waiting to get a chance to parrot an outdoor grower and call names. keep on keeping on. a couple semesters of plant science class would change any of these trolls opinions on their all knowing leader. truth be told, a lot has changed in agriculture since 1893.


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## chuck estevez (Dec 24, 2015)

tropicalcannabispatient said:


> I think i understand your retarded statement now, so u defoliate to make popcorn nugs bigger for "extra" harvest? Why in first place grow only tops and NOT popcorn shit, why insted of defoliate the plant just lollipop the popcorn and redirect all the energy into growing bigger tops? Because it doesn't make to stunt the plant for a month to grow bigger popcorn nugs the time u loose in recovery u can spended better in growing bigger tops..


well, got some news for you, look up "apical dominance' all though your idea is the same as others, that just isn't how plants work. there really isn't any other energy redirected to the already dominant tops.read this
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-plants-send-sugars-from-sources-to-sinks.html

Sugar sinks that store carbohydrates can become sugar sources for plants when the plants need sugar. _Starch,_ a complex carbohydrate, is insoluble in water, so it acts as a carbohydrate storage molecule. Whenever a plant needs sugar, like at night or in the winter when photosynthesis doesn’t occur as well, the plant can break down its starches into simple sugars, which allows a tissue that would normally be a sugar sink to become a sugar source.


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## chuck estevez (Dec 24, 2015)

Impman said:


> it is a good site. you just found yourself in the vortex of the apex of RIU trolls. post anything on defoliation and you get called a noob and stupid. seriously, there are only a few of these guys waiting to get a chance to parrot an outdoor grower and call names. keep on keeping on. a couple semesters of plant science class would change any of these trolls opinions on their all knowing leader. truth be told, a lot has changed in agriculture since 1893.


more like a vortex of butt hurt no nothings who THINK they have changed the playbook. LMFAO


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## hyroot (Dec 24, 2015)

Use side lighting. No more popcorn. Or use tomato cages or stakes or a scrog to spread out each branch so the whole plant gets light. If that's what you're after. Or even main line

Some strains. You get popcorn even on the tops. That's just the genetics.


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## Resinhound (Dec 24, 2015)

Impman said:


> a lot has changed in agriculture since 1893.


Youre right alot has changed...except the plants,they still work the same way they did in 1893.They still need leaves to do pretty much ANYTHING.But you just keep on with your plucking...


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## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 24, 2015)

I think im done with this subject... >>>>>>


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## chuck estevez (Dec 24, 2015)

Resinhound said:


> Youre right alot has changed...except the plants,they still work the same way they did in 1893.They still need leaves to do pretty much ANYTHING.But you just keep on with your plucking...


but, he is the guy who talked to plant scientists and they say it's bad, yet he doesn't listen to them damn scientists,lol



Limpman said:


> I have asked a few professors with Doctorates in plant science about removing leaves. they say it is a bad idea.


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## Impman (Dec 24, 2015)

Resinhound said:


> Youre right alot has changed...except the plants,they still work the same way they did in 1893.They still need leaves to do pretty much ANYTHING.But you just keep on with your plucking...


um no plants don't work the same. 100 years ago corn had 4-5 kernels on them. with advances in agriculture we now grow huge husks... same goes with every other kind of plant. including marijuana. I don't defoliate, but sticking with the same old growing practices as in 1960-I don't do either.


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## hyroot (Dec 24, 2015)

Impman said:


> um no plants don't work the same. 100 years ago corn had 4-5 kernels on them. with advances in agriculture we now grow huge husks... same goes with every other kind of plant. including marijuana. I don't defoliate, but sticking with the same old growing practices as in 1960-I don't do either.



That's just genetics. That has nothing do with photosynthesis.


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## chuck estevez (Dec 24, 2015)

Impman said:


> um no plants don't work the same. 100 years ago corn had 4-5 kernels on them. with advances in agriculture we now grow huge husks... same goes with every other kind of plant. including marijuana. I don't defoliate, but sticking with the same old growing practices as in 1960-I don't do either.


is that ALL you got? Is that WHY you are so BUTT HURT, cause Ub teaches simple growing techniques that work and you have to work really hard to grow green crack, a simple commercial strain?


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## Resinhound (Dec 24, 2015)

I dont know if youve noticed...we arent growing fucking corn...cannabis hasnt spent the last 100 years in a lab...its spent them in a closet.This isnt exactly a GMO crop.


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## harris hawk (Dec 24, 2015)

Impman said:


> it is a good site. you just found yourself in the vortex of the apex of RIU trolls. post anything on defoliation and you get called a noob and stupid. seriously, there are only a few of these guys waiting to get a chance to parrot an outdoor grower and call names. keep on keeping on. a couple semesters of plant science class would change any of these trolls opinions on their all knowing leader. truth be told, a lot has changed in agriculture since 1893.


Thank you very much !! appreciate your concern in answering me. The "good" out weights the "bad" all ways


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## chuck estevez (Dec 24, 2015)

harris hawk said:


> Thank you very much !! appreciate your concern in answering me. The "good" out weights the "bad" all ways


ask him if he swallows too


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## Resinhound (Dec 24, 2015)

Honestly I think the op is a troll,all he does is run around and create troll topics like this one and his retarded self powered generator nonsense..then leaves and watches the fireworks.Adding to ignore,I got better things to do.


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## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 24, 2015)

Impman said:


> um no plants don't work the same. 100 years ago corn had 4-5 kernels on them. with advances in agriculture we now grow huge husks... same goes with every other kind of plant. including marijuana. I don't defoliate, but sticking with the same old growing practices as in 1960-I don't do either.





harris hawk said:


> Thank you very much !! appreciate your concern in answering me. The "good" out weights the "bad" all ways


WHERE ALL THIS RETARDS CAME FROM? SOMEBODY PLEASE CLOSE THE CAGE!!! Oh i know now this are your disciples. Damn you @revthenatural


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## harris hawk (Dec 25, 2015)

Don't know what to think - a few members of site are not even worth answering let alone reading their post's. "they" drive people off site with their attitude- maybe they need to roll a fat one a think about things - last post !!!!! Doesn't their post's go against what this site is for. I will not recommend this site to other people - were is the ADMIN to put a stop to their input and put downs of other members. he site is only as good as it's members


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## cannawizard (Dec 25, 2015)

The "ignore button" is your friend 

Don't let the internet get to you


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## chuck estevez (Dec 25, 2015)

harris hawk said:


> Don't know what to think - a few members of site are not even worth answering let alone reading their post's. "they" drive people off site with their attitude- maybe they need to roll a fat one a think about things - last post !!!!! Doesn't their post's go against what this site is for. I will not recommend this site to other people - were is the ADMIN to put a stop to their input and put downs of other members. he site is only as good as it's members


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## bict (Dec 25, 2015)

This thread gave me aids.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 25, 2015)

hyroot said:


> Use side lighting. No more popcorn.


That is simply not true amigo and confirms you have never grown an outdoor plant. You didn't bother to check or perhaps mentally process my link which included photos. For some, photos is the only thing they're capable of understanding. Here are links again.....

http://rollitup.org/t/giving-defoliation-during-flower-a-try.839655/page-128#post-11170543
_*"2. The plant received full sun sunrise to sunset from the top to the very bottom of the pot. The lower part of the plant still has popcorn buds.....which flies into the face of every clown here who believes it's the lack of light that induces popcorn buds below the colas....at lower levels."*_

https://www.rollitup.org/t/giving-defoliation-during-flower-a-try.839655/page-126#post-11165602

As some of us have said a million times in other threads, there's other issues at work which includes plant growth processes and chronological age, the effect of apical dominance, etc. https://www.rollitup.org/t/giving-defoliation-during-flower-a-try.839655/page-31#post-10986496


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## hyroot (Dec 25, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> That is simply not true amigo and confirms you have never grown an outdoor plant. You didn't bother to check or perhaps mentally process my link which included photos. For some, photos is the only thing they're capable of understanding. Here are links again.....
> 
> http://rollitup.org/t/giving-defoliation-during-flower-a-try.839655/page-128#post-11170543
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/giving-defoliation-during-flower-a-try.839655/page-126#post-11165602
> ...


Wow that is the stupidest response I've ever read. Obviously you've never grown indoor and used side lighting.. if you use side lighting. It's the same idea as doing vert. All lower growth will be the same size as the top growth.

Pick a fight with someone else. I don't have the patience for your stupidity today.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 25, 2015)

hyroot said:


> Wow that is the stupidest response I've ever read. Obviously you've never grown indoor and used side lighting.


Yes I have, while you was still messin' in your britches young man. Reading one page out of my book does not make you an expert on what I've done nor who I am. Makes you look like an ignorant fool just like your side lighting statements. Roach, an older well seasoned indoor grower out of NY confirmed said his side lighting experiment was a joke regarding popcorn buds and confirmed I was right. It's in one of the Defoil threads....go fetch. 

Can you not see or did you not bother to LOOK at the photos of my outdoor grown plant for fear that someone might prove another stupid RIU paradigm wrong? This is why RIU and most cannabis forums can not be taken seriously by bonafide gardeners - too much bullshit....see my sig 

This old post applies to you:
_*"2. The plant received full sun sunrise to sunset from the top to the very bottom of the pot. The lower part of the plant still has popcorn buds.....which flies into the face of every clown here who believes it's the lack of light that induces popcorn buds below the colas....at lower levels."*_

Uncle Ben


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## hyroot (Dec 25, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> Yes I have, while you was still messin' in your britches young man. Reading one page out of my book does not make you an expert on what I've done nor who I am. Makes you look like an ignorant fool just like your side lighting statements. Roach, an older well seasoned indoor grower out of NY confirmed said his side lighting experiment was a joke regarding popcorn buds and confirmed I was right. It's in one of the Defoil threads....go fetch.
> 
> Can you not see or did you not bother to LOOK at the photos of my outdoor grown plant for fear that someone might prove another stupid RIU paradigm wrong? This is why RIU and most cannabis forums can not be taken seriously by bonafide gardeners - too much bullshit....see my sig
> 
> ...



I've done your method before several times years ago. It doesn't work very well unless you use your strains. I don't give a Dam about your book. I've read plenty of others old man. From people who have ph d's in their field. Yours is just observation.

This is a troll thread about indoor defoliation. Several people said they defoliate because of the lower popcorn buds. So again of you use side lighting or run vert. You won't have popcorn buds. Go pull a bubbleman and push your book somewhere else. Or create another bullshit thread.

Try reading the thread before you cherry pick your arguments.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 25, 2015)

hyroot said:


> I've done your method before several times years ago. It doesn't work very well unless you use your strains. I don't give a Dam about your book. I've read plenty of others old man. From people who have ph d's in their field. Yours is just observation.
> 
> This is a troll thread about indoor defoliation. So again of you use side lighting or run vert. You won't have popcorn buds. Go pull a bubbleman and push your book somewhere else. Or create another bullshit thread.
> 
> Try reading the thread before you cherry pick your arguments.


My use of metaphors and photos went right over your head. I have no book, shit-fer-brains. I have contributed to Cervantes's Bible but that is all.

_"Several people said they defoliate because of the lower popcorn buds."_ And they're also ignorant dumb asses when it comes to plant processes. What's your point?


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## hyroot (Dec 25, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> My use of metaphors and photos went right over your head. I have no book, shit-fer-brains. I have contributed to Cervantes's Bible but that is all.
> 
> _"Several people said they defoliate because of the lower popcorn buds."_ And they're also ignorant dumb asses when it comes to plant processes. What's your point?



You shouldn't tell anyone you contributed to that book.  There's so much bad info in there. Back in the day that's all we had to go on and we followed it to a T. Later learned jorge doesn't know what he's talking about.

Like I said I don't have enough the patience today. .

My point was instead of trying to pull leaves to make larger buds (that doesn't work) try side lighting. . It's pretty self explanatory. .


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## anzohaze (Dec 25, 2015)

whitebb2727 said:


> No need to remove leaves. If for what ever reason a plant doesn't need a leaf like lack of light, it will shed it.
> 
> I like dense foliage. It has shed some lowers due to lack of light penetration.
> View attachment 3568816


Bragger  merry Christmas my brother


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 25, 2015)

hyroot said:


> My point was instead of trying to pull leaves to make larger buds (that doesn't work) try side lighting. . It's pretty self explanatory. .


Too bad it doesn't work as I showed in several threads. You need to learn what a makes a plant tick instead of making shit up.


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## anzohaze (Dec 25, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> wow, Just went and looked at THE REV's plants and i must say, THEY LOOK LIKE SHIT, sorry Bro, that's the truth.


Any pics


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## hyroot (Dec 25, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> Too bad it doesn't work as I showed in several threads. You need to learn what a makes a plant tick instead of making shit up.


Again try an indoor grow. Look up shade avoidance, phytochrome response, emmerson effect, Mcree curve. You might learn how plants respond to light and how to measure plant lighting. More photons bigger buds.. add side lighting or vert and it will bring more photons to the lower region of the plant. Again self explanatory


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## The_Herban_Legend (Dec 25, 2015)

Wait! So do I defoliate the bottom third or not? Enquiring minds want to know.


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## whitebb2727 (Dec 25, 2015)

anzohaze said:


> Bragger  merry Christmas my brother


Merry Christmas.
You're right. Maybe a little bragging.
A picture is worth a thousand words when making a point.

I need to show the hand full of leaves that have come off. 
I build a thick canopy and its OK if a few come off cause there are so many.

I don't see how people think hacking leaves off work. I also don't see the bad about the small buds. I grind and decarb them and make butter.


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## anzohaze (Dec 25, 2015)

whitebb2727 said:


> Merry Christmas.
> You're right. Maybe a little bragging.
> A picture is worth a thousand words when making a point.
> 
> ...


IM personally not fond of huge buds when buying bud per say but love growing big buds


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## a mongo frog (Dec 25, 2015)

The_Herban_Legend said:


> Wait! So do I defoliate the bottom third or not? Enquiring minds want to know.


I believe if your set up requires you too then you prune some lower branching. Set up being short veg time and packing plants into an area. However if your set up is something like 4 plants veged for nice yields with ample air flow and light one might not need too. Pruning some lowers i believe is different then defoliting fan leaves from top too bottom.


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## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 25, 2015)

harris hawk said:


> Don't know what to think - a few members of site are not even worth answering let alone reading their post's. "they" drive people off site with their attitude- maybe they need to roll a fat one a think about things - last post !!!!! Doesn't their post's go against what this site is for. I will not recommend this site to other people - were is the ADMIN to put a stop to their input and put downs of other members. he site is only as good as it's members


Need a shoulder to cry little fella? Or a pacifier?


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## chuck estevez (Dec 25, 2015)

anzohaze said:


> Any pics


https://www.rollitup.org/t/lighting-best-for-cannabis.881501/page-13


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## anzohaze (Dec 25, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/t/lighting-best-for-cannabis.881501/page-13


Wow he calls those normal growth yellowing dieing leaves in veg like that and that small and that many problems. He also talks like he is a cult leader


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## chuck estevez (Dec 25, 2015)

anzohaze said:


> Wow he calls those normal growth yellowing dieing leaves in veg like that and that small and that many problems. He also talks like he is a cult leader


here is some more bullshit wisdom from the REV,lol



revtheidiot said:


> ou guys will really have a fit when I ripen these lol. Leaves are going to fall off and won't be any green to be found. In vegging, if bottom leaves are yellowing and all new branches and top growth are pretty and green, this is not a deficiency and many growers will start throwing nitrogen and cal mag ect. Not needed, once again just understand the tree and what it does. It eats off of itself to grow at times or repair damage roots. In flowering, it eats off of itself until death at the end and of course the better cannabinoids waiting at the end of a patient tunnel. If your new growth looks yellow or spotted ect, then yes there is a nutrition problem that needs attention. Blessings, rev.


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## anzohaze (Dec 25, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> here is some more bullshit wisdom from the REV,lol


If you look close at some.of his pics it almost looks like he has or starting to get mites. I see white specs on leaves could just be me but


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## anzohaze (Dec 25, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> here is some more bullshit wisdom from the REV,lol


Post 254 in thread you posted above


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## chuck estevez (Dec 25, 2015)

anzohaze said:


> If you look close at some.of his pics it almost looks like he has or starting to get mites. I see white specs on leaves could just be me but


exactly, That's why i said his plants look like shit, he has a major deficiency and he says its a great thing, she bleeds red,LMFAO
he MUST be related to warren Kirk


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## chuck estevez (Dec 25, 2015)

anzohaze said:


> Post 254 in thread you posted above


in that post look at the pics, look at his saucers,LOL look at the saucers in ALL his pics


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## anzohaze (Dec 25, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> in that post look at the pics, look at his saucers,LOL look at the saucers in ALL his pics


Lololololol do you see his garden fairy in the same.pic.far right side... she is praying for a decent harvest. ANYONE CAN HAVE decent veg pics flower is when the problems occur and people shut the grow.journals down or poop no I just ran out of.time.to finish it


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## Impman (Dec 27, 2015)

My goodness... get a plant science book and take a class or two. the Grow Bible is a goddamn joke. Lame picture book for teenagers. Jorge Cervantes is burned the hell out. He has no degree to speak of. 
comparing outdoor to indoor is so ignorant . outdoor is shwag weed , best outdoor crop goes for 800 a unit of you can find someone dumb enough to pay it. Good indoor is 2500-2800 a unit. 
I'm still waiting on side by side comparison from the OP. instead we are comparing outdoor to indoor ? of course side lighting helps! it adds lumens. the sun has a shitton more lumens than indoor lighting, that's why the plants are bigger outside, holy shit man.


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## Budley Doright (Dec 27, 2015)

anzohaze said:


> Lololololol do you see his garden fairy in the same.pic.far right side... she is praying for a decent harvest. ANYONE CAN HAVE decent veg pics flower is when the problems occur and people shut the grow.journals down or poop no I just ran out of.time.to finish it


Yes but he has problems in veg as well lol. Go forth young plant and feed thy self with thy self . I just gotta say............ LOL!!!


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## SPLFreak808 (Dec 28, 2015)

Impman said:


> My goodness... get a plant science book and take a class or two. the Grow Bible is a goddamn joke. Lame picture book for teenagers. Jorge Cervantes is burned the hell out. He has no degree to speak of.
> comparing outdoor to indoor is so ignorant . outdoor is shwag weed , best outdoor crop goes for 800 a unit of you can find someone dumb enough to pay it. Good indoor is 2500-2800 a unit.
> I'm still waiting on side by side comparison from the OP. instead we are comparing outdoor to indoor ? of course side lighting helps! it adds lumens. the sun has a shitton more lumens than indoor lighting, that's why the plants are bigger outside, holy shit man.


I agree jc is burnt out but doesn't the sun only put out 10k per ft on a good day in a sunny state?


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## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 28, 2015)

Impman said:


> My goodness... get a plant science book and take a class or two. the Grow Bible is a goddamn joke. Lame picture book for teenagers. Jorge Cervantes is burned the hell out. He has no degree to speak of.
> comparing outdoor to indoor is so ignorant . outdoor is shwag weed , best outdoor crop goes for 800 a unit of you can find someone dumb enough to pay it. Good indoor is 2500-2800 a unit.
> I'm still waiting on side by side comparison from the OP. instead we are comparing outdoor to indoor ? of course side lighting helps! it adds lumens. the sun has a shitton more lumens than indoor lighting, that's why the plants are bigger outside, holy shit man.


U just a retard!!


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## Budzbuddha (Dec 28, 2015)

Holy shit ... Saw those saucers filled with swamp water 
Great way to attract gnats !


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 29, 2015)

Impman said:


> instead we are comparing outdoor to indoor ? of course side lighting helps!


Post #147 went right over your head.

stupid is as stupid does


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## bdonson (May 11, 2016)

anyone who mentions defoliation should be banned or sent to another forum who's title begin with dumbass. I try to check in every once in a while and there is always a dumbass thread about defoliation UB U R a saint peace out


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## bdonson (May 11, 2016)

BTW Ben we chatted here long ago about herm issues I had,,, It was well water at ph 7.8 things are better now cheers


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## harris hawk (Jun 10, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> ask him if he swallows too


If directed to me -- Thanks !!


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## BobCajun (Jul 16, 2016)

I think defoliation during flowering reduces potency. I've been doing a fairly heavy defol near the end of flowering to try to get more light to lower buds but potency has been consistently lower than what I think it should be. Then I read where an experiment was done that showed that resin glands don't depend on the nearby leaves to power resin production. It's the same even if the nearest leaves are yellow ones that don't produce much photosynthates. It said that it's the total leaf area that supplies the energy and that it is moved to the bud sites for production of resin. So it would be logical that the more leaf is present, the more potent will be the buds. So this time I'm going to leave them all on and see if it increases potency. 

BTW I also used lizard lights and it was still lacking. I figure it's gotta be the defol. I also did other trimming of leaves whenever some looked excessive. So I'm pretty sure defol during flower does reduce potency. It was a bunch of different strains too, so can't chalk it up to a bad strain.

I also read a few studies where defol was done to various types of plants and it always reduced yields by almost as much as you would expect based on the percentage of leaf they removed. They never ever caught back up with the controls.


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## blowinmaryfast (Jul 24, 2016)

Def a valid point. I want to see your conclusion of you decide to experiment... Although I would personally be afraid to strip the plant while in full budding mode


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## BobCajun (Jul 24, 2016)

blowinmaryfast said:


> Def a valid point. I want to see your conclusion of you decide to experiment... Although I would personally be afraid to strip the plant while in full budding mode


I do have to remove a leaf or two, if there's a big one on top and it's shading several smaller shoots, but it's very few. I'm not going to strip a bunch off though like I did before. May end up with a lot of fluff but we'll see.


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## cocojo3 (Aug 11, 2016)

I've done side by sides before and my conclusion every time is: don't.

I never take off leaves unless they're bunched to where I remove a few to prevent mold, the leaves are totally dead or I'm harvesting the plant. Defoliating has always reduced my yield.


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## Dumme (Aug 11, 2016)

I cant believe people are still even talking about defoliation. It's insane.


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## 303 (Aug 18, 2016)

Look put aside your methods of LST and oh i never need to "defoil" prune is what I call it but whatever Im the ignorant old guy here and I'm telling you for a large canopy someone who vegs for say 2 weeks in a hydroponic garden probably has high plant numbers, you let it go to the canopy (trellis) and begin bloom. everything that is no longer getting light after the stretch we get rid of generally most everything under the trellis. We do this because we don't want the undergrowth buds, for it makes the difference of your units looking bad (in a good way) to sad (in a shitty way). But hey if you have the time and veg for weeks and weeks and hand water and its a hobby there no right and wrong way, for a business that needs product available on time every time you "defoil". Everyone can do there own thing here but the shit I read these days


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## Auzziebuddy (Aug 18, 2016)

Hi. 
I know fuck all. 
But to who ever on here wrote about light travelling through plants, thank you. 
It was a light bulb moment for me(no pun intended). 
I no longer remove my engines.


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