# long veg for mature THC?



## daydrops (Jun 13, 2008)

I've posted this on another board but have gotten no experienced responses yet:
_*
Has anyone noticed a MORE potent high from a plant they've vegged LONGER than one of it's brother's? (clone or seedling?)*_

I forget where I read it, but I have multiple links which seem to confirm the idea that a plant should be at least 8 weeks old (from seed) before you switch photoperiods to flowering. 

The idea is that the plant has to be mature enough to produce THC at the potency it is genetically rated at. Too young = less potent THC. 

Obviously, this only applies to seedlings because clones are the same age of the mother.

Can anyone else confirm this advice? With a link preferably.

Here are some of the articles which support the idea but do not state it:

D9-Tetrahydrocannabinol Content in Cannabis Plants of Greek Origin
Maria STEFANIDOU,* Sotiris ATHANASELIS, Giorgos ALEVISOPOULOS, John PAPOUTSIS, and
Antonis KOUTSELINIS
Department of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology, University of Athens, Medical School, 75, Mikras Asias str., Goudi,
Athens 115.27, Greece. Received September 30, 1999 ; accepted December 28, 1999

There are wide variations in the relative amounts of cannabinoids in cannabis plants, depending on many factors. The predominant factors are the genetic characteristics of the seedstock,17,1 the environment in which the plant is grown,19,20) the *maturity*, sex, the part of the plant harvested, the time elapsed between harvesting and chemical analysis, and the conditions of storage of the plant.21)

What do you think they mean by plant maturity, if not AGE?


[email protected]

The THC in the cannabis plant is produced as a defense mechanism to protect itself,and its spawn. This is the reason that THC is produced only when the plant reaches *maturity*.


HIT - Second perspectives on Cannabis conference - Zerin Atakn.

The hemp plant (cannabis sativa) has been cultivated as a multipurpose economic plant for thousands of years
Some are grown for their fiber content, others for their psychoactive properties
The plant is a lush, fast growing annual which can *reach maturity in 60 days indoors and around 120 days outdoors*
There are male and female plants and both contain psychoactive ingredients. But female flowers have a higher amount of THC (the main psychoactive ingredient).


What is meant by &#8216;plant maturity&#8217; as used in these quotes, if not &#8216;age&#8217;? As it turns out &#8216;age&#8217; is not the correct term. Because, as many sources say, &#8216;chronological age&#8217; is not the deciding factor. Rather, I am going to use the term &#8216;light hours&#8217; to refer to maturity of plant. 

Take the next quote:


Pot Seeds Marijuana Seeds Cannabis

The potency of the marijuana plant is related to its maturity rather than Chronological age. Genetically identical 3 month and 6 month-old plants which have mature flowers have the same potency. Starting from seed, a six month old plant flowers slightly faster and fills out more than a 3 month old plant.

Here I assume they are talking about cuttings ("genetically identical"). If you let one age for 3 or 6 months, they will be the same potency. But is it possible that they are refering to the flowering stage maturity, and not plant maturity (light-hours age)?

I am interested in this because the White Widow I grew from seed was flowered at 8 weeks old. The smoke was mid to high grade. Nice mellow high that got smoother and more potent after 8 weeks curing. But all in all, I expected a greater punch from White Widow. It was a creeper too. It felt immature, like it just wasn't aged long enough. I think if I vegged the seedlings for 12 weeks instead of 8 it would improve. Or, I could keep a mother and all the clones would be very mature.

I wrote this in another forum and got dissed by an asshole who says he never heard of plant age/maturity effecting potency. (I guess the guy read and knows everything.)

I welcome all experienced growers to weigh in on this.


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## marijuanajoe1982 (Jun 13, 2008)

Well, It is true I have never heard of it before this. At least you had the brains to actually provide us with a little background info on where you are coming from.

From what I do know, most companies list the number of weeks for your variety to be "Commercially Viable," which basically means "sellable." It has been my experience that by leaving the 'fruit on the vine' for 1-2 weeks longer than is usually suggested will improve on the creation and accumulation of a diverse and varied range of different cannibinoids than you would have had at "Recommended Harvest Date." Since a quick turnaround is a good selling point, companies tend to list the fastest possible harvest. It is also an old grower rule of thumb to wait a week once you think they are ready. Similar reasoning is involved with this as well. There may be more to it than just this, but what I am talking about applies to all cannabis plants, no matter how long they are vegged for. It is possible that also using a very short vegging period could also effect this. I am going to do a relatively short veg period on an indoor harvest, but all parent plants are gonna be vegged at least all summer, so I can compare the ones I let veg all summer to the ones that had an 8 week or so veg.


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## ocb123 (Jun 14, 2008)

I'm stoned, and running late for work, but I've had a quick gander at your post and I think you're right, there is an optimum veg time to produce better matured THC, most experienced growers seem to reckon you should veg around 2months. However this varies between Indicas and Sativas and will also vary between strains and probably between indvidual plants.
Most growers have other deciding factors which determine their veg time, grow space and time for example.
I think you may be trying to think of this as a way of growing 'super bud', but I think that if you are able to veg for as long as you want then it just takes experience and a knowledge of your particular plant to know when is the optimum time to start flowering.


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## daydrops (Jun 16, 2008)

marijuanajoe1982 said:


> Well, It is true I have never heard of it before this. At least you had the brains to actually provide us with a little background info on where you are coming from.
> 
> From what I do know, most companies list the number of weeks for your variety to be "Commercially Viable," which basically means "sellable." It has been my experience that by leaving the 'fruit on the vine' for 1-2 weeks longer than is usually suggested will improve on the creation and accumulation of a diverse and varied range of different cannibinoids than you would have had at "Recommended Harvest Date." Since a quick turnaround is a good selling point, companies tend to list the fastest possible harvest. It is also an old grower rule of thumb to wait a week once you think they are ready. Similar reasoning is involved with this as well. There may be more to it than just this, but what I am talking about applies to all cannabis plants, no matter how long they are vegged for. It is possible that also using a very short vegging period could also effect this. I am going to do a relatively short veg period on an indoor harvest, but all parent plants are gonna be vegged at least all summer, *so I can compare the ones I let veg all summer to the ones that had an 8 week or so veg.*


perfect! that's the kind of experience I'm looking for. i haven't had a chance to experiment myself with different veg times. i'm sure someone her has done it.

thanks.


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## daydrops (Jun 16, 2008)

ocb123 said:


> I'm stoned, and running late for work, but I've had a quick gander at your post and I think you're right, there is an optimum veg time to produce better matured THC, most experienced growers seem to reckon you should veg around 2months. However this varies between Indicas and Sativas and will also vary between strains and probably between indvidual plants.
> Most growers have other deciding factors which determine their veg time, grow space and time for example.
> I think you may be trying to think of this as a way of growing 'super bud', but I think that if you are able to veg for as long as you want then it just takes experience and a knowledge of your particular plant to know when is the optimum time to start flowering.


thanks for reply. i agree with everything you suggest. now if i could only find someone with first hand experience.


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## ocb123 (Jun 16, 2008)

For first hand experienced help, try asking:
fdd2blk's Marijuana Growing Profile

I've not been on this site for that long but this fella is a very experienced grower with an excellent knowledge of the plant and growing. I need no other proof than this link showing his 100 Oz plant. Read and be slack jawed!

https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/80674-bigest-uk-plant-ever-64-a.html


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## fdd2blk (Jun 16, 2008)

i love all the "reasons" the plant produces THC. i've heard defense, light intensifiers, pollen collection, ................. what if the plant "just" has THC. kinda like milkweed has milk. it just does. 

i've never flowered a plant straight from seed but i know i've heard of it. from what i hear it works fine.

i have seedlings with THC on them.

unless you are doing lab tests for THC levels it's all just opinion.

hope this helps.


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## CannaSeur (Jun 16, 2008)

I'm not too sure it works like this. I always thought the longer you veg the more yield you get because of the size. I don't think anyone would veg for 2 months unless its a monther and taking clones from it or you want a monster of a plant(depending on pot size of course). For me I always veg for 1 month, or wait for pre-flowers whatever comes first. almost everyone don't like to grow sativas because of the long flowering times, Some people flower as soon as it sprouts and its still excellent quality, Grapefriut is like this. people also do this for height/space factors also. But I have never heard of this "mature THC" you talk of. the only mature THC I know of is when the trichomes change from clear to white or white to amber.

You veg your plants for 2 months then depending on the strain its usually 8 to 14weeks for flowering, then 3 to 7 days for drying and then a minimum of 14 to 30 days for curing?! Thats a long fucking time man, no one is goin to fuck like that unless you have time,money and a nice spot in the middle of nowwhere. because remember, the plant will actually start to look like its got defeciencies when its overgrown its pot and if you want to keep it for 2 months i would suggest an 85 liter pot. and at least 1 foot high ceilings. Look at my X-mas tree columbian red haze for example, its at 5'11. its in a 3 gallon pot vegged for 1 month un topped. If it had grown even another inch taller I would have had to cut it beacause I have no more ceiling height for the light. The topped one with 4 main stems was 4'11. The breeder for the strain says it will grow 1.5 metres in a 7.5 litre pot with a VERY short veg time.


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## fdd2blk (Jun 16, 2008)

CannaSeur said:


> I'm not too sure it works like this. I always thought the longer you veg the more yield you get because of the size. I don't think anyone would veg for 2 months unless its a monther and taking clones from it or you want a monster of a plant(depending on pot size of course). For me I always veg for 1 month, or wait for pre-flowers whatever comes first. almost everyone don't like to grow sativas because of the long flowering times, Some people flower as soon as it sprouts and its still excellent quality, Grapefriut is like this. people also do this for height/space factors also. But I have never heard of this "mature THC" you talk of. the only mature THC I know of is when the trichomes change from clear to white or white to amber.
> 
> You veg your plants for 2 months then depending on the strain its usually 8 to 14weeks for flowering, then 3 to 7 days for drying and then a minimum of 14 to 30 days for curing?! Thats a long fucking time man, no one is goin to fuck like that unless you have time,money and a nice spot in the middle of nowwhere. because remember, the plant will actually start to look like its got defeciencies when its overgrown its pot and if you want to keep it for 2 months i would suggest an 85 liter pot. and at least 1 foot high ceilings. Look at my X-mas tree columbian red haze for example, its at 5'11. its in a 3 gallon pot vegged for 1 month un topped. If it had grown even another inch taller I would have had to cut it beacause I have no more ceiling height for the light. The topped one with 4 main stems was 4'11. The breeder for the strain says it will grow 1.5 metres in a 7.5 litre pot with a VERY short veg time.




let's step outside for a moment.   vegged for 6 months.


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## daydrops (Jun 16, 2008)

well. i guess no one agrees with growing 'older', mature plants for more potent THC. It just doesn't have a lot of support.


if this is true, i am led to believe I will need different seeds because the WW I have from Joey Weed just aren't that potent as compared to many other strains I have smoked. so either: A) grow with different nutes or B) different seeds.

because it looks like vegging the plants for longer isn't going to increase potency. sucks. 

I no longer recommend Joey Weed Seeds.


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## fdd2blk (Jun 16, 2008)

that plant i vegged for 6 months was rated at A-. not bad smoke but not kick ass either.


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## daydrops (Jun 16, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> that plant i vegged for 6 months was rated at A-. not bad smoke but not kick ass either.


thanks for the reference. I give my 2 month plant an A- good smoke, mellow, non-anxiety. but a creepy high. it took about 15 minutes after you smoke a bowl to feel how high you were and realize that it was good smoke. 

but WW is rated for up to 21% THC. I expected a knock-out bowl.


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## Pidgeon (Jun 16, 2008)

THC ratings are really relative. THC content depends on a lot of variables and really it depends on the grower when trying to calculate such results. But, genetics does play a big part here.


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## marijuanajoe1982 (Jun 17, 2008)

Pidgeon said:


> THC ratings are really relative. THC content depends on a lot of variables and really it depends on the grower when trying to calculate such results. But, genetics does play a big part here.


This is completely true. First, Genetics play the biggest role in anything having to do with how well a plant performs (unless you put it in a dark closet or something, then it's your fault, lol). What I'm trying to say is that great weed is 70%-80% nature, and 20%-30% nurture.

Also, Pidgeon, you are right about these measurements being relative, and honestly I am a little tired of people who think that the THC is measured by weight. THC is measured in comparison to the total amount of cannibinoids in a plant. Thats why you have to see which mother's get you highest before you start full scale cloning. Also, why would they need to use a mass spectrometer to figure out the THC by weight? lol! They would chemically extract all THC from the buds, then weigh the extracted buds in relationship to the extracted resin in order to determine it's percentage by weight. Probably alot harder to do, apparently, if they use a motha fuckin' mass spectrometer up in this bitch instead. Word.


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## daydrops (Jun 17, 2008)

Thanks For Everyone's Imput.


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## Spittn4cash (Jun 17, 2008)

daydrops said:


> Thanks For Everyone's Imput.


pwnd

U cant spell. 




> I wrote this in another forum and got dissed by an asshole who says he never heard of plant age/maturity effecting potency. (I guess the guy read and knows everything.)




^^oh and thank you for the compliment^^



> I've posted this on another board but have gotten no experienced responses yet:
> _*
> Has anyone noticed a MORE potent high from a plant they've vegged LONGER than one of it's brother's? (clone or seedling?)*_


and even tho a *female* plant cant be as potent as its _brother_ (for obvious reasons), to answer your question - I have grown clones and seedlings from the same strains and from my experience the only variable that seemed to change the potency was lighting and TLC.

but the 'peak maturity' of a plant is usually found on the seed package. its around 8 weeks *flowering* indoors for most indicas, and a lot longer for these friggen sativas. 
but like I mentioned in the other thread I have never heard anyone say '8 weeks veg was the minimum for a cannabis plant.' and I wasnt trying to offend U over there, I just asked that ppl provided solid links and reources so we know ur not pulling this shit outta ur ass, which in this case..well..


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## marijuanajoe1982 (Jun 17, 2008)

Spittn4cash said:


> But the 'peak maturity' of a plant is usually found on the seed package. its around 8 weeks *flowering* indoors for most indicas, and a lot longer for these friggen sativas.


Yo Spittin'! What's wrong with a Sativa? I know it's sometimes hard when you got that deliciousness down there and it makes ya a little impatient. All you wanna do is harvest but you don't want wait 13 weeks? I've been there, bro! I say, expand your grow area, and grow some Indicas and Sativas together. If you find the right match and flower from short enough, the height difference won't even be an issue when it comes to lighting. The Indicas come in first, and then you have some knock-out stone until your Sativas finally ripen on the vine. I do like your set-up, but I can see why Sativas might be an issue, height constraints, right? Well, I'm about to try some Hawaiian Snow here after this flower cycle. Ive got a 6 foot ceiling, but the light is lower than that, so I've only got like 4 1/2 feet of plant space. Gonna LST, tie them fuckers down, train the branches into a low SCROG. This could even be done 12/12 from seed, and would be relatively natural for the Sativa, being equatorial as most are. You seemed consternated about the nature of the Sativa. Not trying to harsh ya or nothin', just tryin' to give ya some more options.  *Pipe Testing In Progress*

Btw, agreed with everything else you said man


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## Spittn4cash (Jun 18, 2008)

marijuanajoe1982 said:


> Yo Spittin'! What's wrong with a Sativa? I know it's sometimes hard when you got that deliciousness down there and it makes ya a little impatient. All you wanna do is harvest but you don't want wait 13 weeks? I've been there, bro! I say, expand your grow area, and grow some Indicas and Sativas together. If you find the right match and flower from short enough, the height difference won't even be an issue when it comes to lighting. The Indicas come in first, and then you have some knock-out stone until your Sativas finally ripen on the vine. I do like your set-up, but I can see why Sativas might be an issue, height constraints, right? Well, I'm about to try some Hawaiian Snow here after this flower cycle. Ive got a 6 foot ceiling, but the light is lower than that, so I've only got like 4 1/2 feet of plant space. Gonna LST, tie them fuckers down, train the branches into a low SCROG. This could even be done 12/12 from seed, and would be relatively natural for the Sativa, being equatorial as most are. You seemed consternated about the nature of the Sativa. Not trying to harsh ya or nothin', just tryin' to give ya some more options.  *Pipe Testing In Progress*
> 
> Btw, agreed with everything else you said man


dont get me wrong, I love sativa's as much as the next toker, but my last plant that was indica dominant took 15 weeks to finish, 12/12 from seed. and that was just the indica! the sativa Id imagne would take much longer to grow 12/12 from seed.

I do have these strawberry cough seeds that are dominantly sativa, but I dont plan on growing them anytime soon. I still have a bit of breeding to do before I cross with strawberry cough. Im gonna cross the bubblicious and sweet purple next, both indica dominant and heavy on THC (due to genetics @ threadstarter)

one day I will be growing pure sativa's in there, I'll probable make a cross of pure haze and my "sweet purple x strawberry cough x bubblicious" cross that im working on? we'll see...


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## marijuanajoe1982 (Jun 18, 2008)

Spittn4cash said:


> dont get me wrong, I love sativa's as much as the next toker, but my last plant that was indica dominant took 15 weeks to finish, 12/12 from seed. and that was just the indica! the sativa Id imagne would take much longer to grow 12/12 from seed.
> 
> I do have these strawberry cough seeds that are dominantly sativa, but I dont plan on growing them anytime soon. I still have a bit of breeding to do before I cross with strawberry cough. Im gonna cross the bubblicious and sweet purple next, both indica dominant and heavy on THC (due to genetics @ threadstarter)
> 
> one day I will be growing pure sativa's in there, I'll probable make a cross of pure haze and my "sweet purple x strawberry cough x bubblicious" cross that im working on? we'll see...


Sounds cool bro, And that cross you've dreamt up sounds delicious! I was just giving you a little shit, anyway . I pretty much always agree with what you have to say, so I figured I might as well jab ya in the ribs. I figured you could take it. I totally empathize with you though, I have to keep my plants under about 4 and a half feet tall because of how high I can raise my light. I could make it taller relatively easy, and I might have to when I grow my Hawaiian Snow, but its not a big deal since I usually prefer an Indica 'stone' over a Sativa 'high' anyway. The only time that doesn't hold true is if I get a truly great 50/50 Hybrid of the correct Indica and the correct Sativa, that blows away all other kinds of highs, when you get the best of both worlds!

Anyway I am growing mostly indica or indica dominant on my indoor setup right now. I got some VISC Fuckin' Incredible, VISC Blackberry, and Barney's G13 Haze (2007 Cannabis Cup winner, came highly recommended by my friend who attended as a judge) The G13 Haze looks really Sativa Dominant, but it's not super tall like most other Sativas. Most G13 Hazes (I'd say about 70/30 Sativa dom, even though genetically it is a 50/50 cross of Indica/Sativa where the Sativa pheno's have obviously been inbred into dominance by the breeder) are on average about 2 or 3 inches taller than than my Blackberrys (almost 100% Indica) , which are another inch or 2 taller than the Fuckin' Incredible (also almost 100% Indica). All plants are within about 6 inches of eachother, except for this one retarded plant that is just growing really really slow. That reminds me, I gotta water tonight. I'll do that soon. Anyway, I have looked at your grow-space. It seems very well designed to me. I wish the light could moce up and down (not SUPER important, so long as you are pushing enough lumens... I just like to be able to adjust it), but other than that I wouldn't change a thing. 

With my setup I'm about to start flowering my 3 varieties, I've been vegging for a little under a month and a half. Most plants are around a foot tall and really thick with close internode spacing. I will let you know how much the G13 Haze plants stretch if you are interested, because they are supposedly really short for a Sativa dominant plant. They really look Sativa, but I have one that is apparently a rare Indica dominant phenotype. It is my favorite, since almost all seem like they are either a blend of the two, or are leaning more towards the Sativa side. Anyway, Barney's G13 Haze seems like you could probably fit it into your space, so If you are interested, I suggest you give it a shot. I did head that Straberry Cough is really good too. I heard it was good for anti-anxiety, I'll bet it would go well with my Xanax . 

You seem to be trying to do something similar to what I'm trying to do. Bred your own strain. That's exactly what I'm trying to do, I've already recruited some people to help "test grow" some of my stuff when I do my seed run near the end of the summer. I'm testing out Deisel ryder and Auto AK-47 x Auto Hindu Kush, to see if it's worth it. Either way I'm making shitloads of seeds with them, I want to just start spreading them around and get a few wild patches of auto's going. My grandmother has 100 acres, and I have 5, so as you can Imagine, I have always been an outdoor grower. But I'm doing an inside crop this year too because we are supposed to have a shitty summer. 

Still have 6 other varieties going outside this summer, so when I take my breeders from inside and move them outside after they have showed sex, they will revert back to Veg and just grow all summer. Gives me plenty of time to clone the mothers, and will give me more selection come fall for breeding choices. with so many varieties, it would really be ALOT of different potential choices. I'm only breeding auto's to other auto's, and regular plants to regular plants. I will breed both different auto's together to make Auto AK Deisel Kush (sounds like the gnarliest auto-flowering variety ever, good blend of Indicas and Sativas in there!) 

Also, and this is just a question so don't take it the wrong way... but if it takes 14 weeks from start to finish doing an indica 12/12 from seed, why not veg for one month and then flower? Thats only about 10 weeks for a short-flowering variety, and I know you would get more yeild. Have you tried that before? Or is there some other reason you prefer 12/12 from seed? Just curious. I think maybe 4 female Indicas could fit in your grow space, even if grown with the regular method. You would probably know better than I on this one though. It is, after all, your grow space and not mine. Anyway you seem like you know a little more than the average person on here, so I'm gonna keep in touch, and see what you finally decide to do. Peace!  *More Pipe Testing About To Commence In... 5...4...3... Aww Fuck it "Chk Chk" "swoooooooooooosh" "Cough cough cough!!!" Fuck! "Cough cough" That shit right there is tha Ivory! I'm a ghost! Whoooooo!

Edit: Shit, I just fuckin practucally wrote a term paper! My bad... I'm high as fuck!


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## daydrops (Jun 19, 2008)

Spittn4cash said:


> ^^oh and thank you for the compliment^^


no problem. i'm an asshole too sometimes.  



Spittn4cash said:


> and even tho a *female* plant cant be as potent as its _brother_ (for obvious reasons), to answer your question - I have grown clones and seedlings from the same strains and from my experience the only variable that seemed to change the potency was lighting and TLC.
> 
> but the 'peak maturity' of a plant is usually found on the seed package. its around 8 weeks *flowering* indoors for most indicas, and a lot longer for these friggen sativas.


thanks for sharing knowledge. 



Spittn4cash said:


> but like I mentioned in the other thread I have never heard anyone say '8 weeks veg was the minimum for a cannabis plant.' and I wasnt trying to offend U over there, I just asked that ppl provided solid links and reources so we know ur not pulling this shit outta ur ass, which in this case..well..



i do not pass on bullshit. i provided you with the links you requested, and explained how i interpreted them. but, experience wins out. and several seasoned growers have weighed in. 

my bad. i was wrong on this one.


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## The Virginian (Jan 7, 2009)

Good gravy Mr.Ganja those are frackin Christmas trees dude way to go. even if it don't improve quality there's the obvious


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## kiwi (Jan 7, 2009)

I always herd you were suposed to wait for alternating nodes with seed plants before you switch them to flower.Kiwi.


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## sniffer (Aug 2, 2010)

how long did you flower it ?
it may of just needed a few more weeks


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## hd deuce (May 25, 2016)

fdd2blk said:


> let's step outside for a moment.  View attachment 134729 vegged for 6 months.


was it more potent


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## qwizoking (May 25, 2016)

answer is no


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## hd deuce (May 25, 2016)

daydrops said:


> Thanks For Everyone's Imput.


just started this as a R&D experiment 

going to veg
til 6 inches 
then 2 months
and 3 month veg

then test using th eGC method

all taking from clones from same mom 

all in same room same light for each

time will tell 

ill post wen complete


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## qwizoking (May 25, 2016)

lol


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## hd deuce (May 25, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> lol



how was ur answer determined


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## 18B (May 25, 2016)

it does take between 55 and 60 days for a seed plant to mature from the time of the seed pop.. Now I do know this matters in the cases of hermaphroditism frequencies but as far as THC potency that very well could be affected as well but many times people that grow long flowering sativas flower them a week or two after seed pop...and it is common practice


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## qwizoking (May 25, 2016)

the dunce hat was more related to this...
"then test using th eGC method

all taking from clones from same mom "
explain 


not necessarily your lack of understanding the production of thc and other compounds within the vesicle etc and well im sure ill get to that after your next response


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## hd deuce (May 25, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> the dunce hat was more related to this...
> "then test using th eGC method
> 
> all taking from clones from same mom "
> ...


it was an obvious typo

grow out clones from same mum sell explanatory isn't it

simply put ,,,,



take 3 clippings all from the same mother plant

and all variables the same lights nutes etc...



only difference would be ................time vegged 


plant #1 veg oil 6 inches 

#2 2months 

#3 3 months 


after grow test using GC 

see what results show


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## qwizoking (May 25, 2016)

right and how old is said mother.....
obviously old enough to determine sex?
or...what process was used, in your mind once the plant reaches maturity what else is changing?


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## hd deuce (May 25, 2016)

here lies the issue 

with all internet communication no checks in place to keep people from being less than respectable

wtf is this a quiz

just because i don't boast about production etc,,, means im a moron

id love to get u in the same room

u have what i call little man in car syndrome

everybody is a smart ass behind the wheel at 60mph and behind the screen in which u enj=oy to throw out cheeky comments

have ever heard its not nice to boast

do u want to know my reality so u feel less about yours 

whats your game here ?

what kind of a plain stupid and presumptuous question

dude 

to answer you ,,,,, she was grow from her moms tissue culture to regain here vigour etc>>>>>

9 months old now 

are u asking me how i determine sex hmmm isn't that the first thing most people discover that is a fundamental need

as I've never used feminized seeds 

listen up you mouthy fuk

dare u to take me up on my offer , let me know where you live 
please 
i want to give u a first hand session is the ouch game 

ur so smart 

what ur financial future 

what assets have u accumulated

what size of grow do you have 

how much weight do u put out every 8weeks 

cus i know damn well ur not in a money spot to afford 15-18 week 
malawi grows

so u smoke the easy ass indica ya ya personally i don't smoke a lot how can one be stoned continuously and function to the point where as to succeed if one choses a profession that require one to have all his meant l faculties and to be on top of ones game

in addition im a father i chose my family over continuous stones not that i don't 
but now my daughter is older im not in the position to be high


plus at one time i was like you i was so high so long being sober now is like being high i quite rather enjoy a sharp mind



hmmm

u want to know skill

fuk dude anybody can be a good grower the net has made sure of that

but the net aint gonna help ur broke ass argumentative attitude

how many cups in spain have u attended 

time and money is all it takes to be good in this game 

as more money = more grows = more mistakes = more learning = more success

id say I've picked the brains of the most successful growers out there 



heres the thing no matter how i reply u can always say prove it

do u want pics is that it
id never expose my situation in that way 

even my daughter at 6 years of age knew to say " stay on the low daddy ,stay on the low"

as for pic anybody can falsify all burden of proof

but heres the kicker not if the person sending the pis put a personal message in the picture 

yours are are coming my friend

by the time im done with you u will be embarrassed and belittled 

is that the thing i should do

absolutely not 

ur obviously young and what example should all respectable people give in their world including yourself

if my daughter ever bought wind of even this conversation she would be utterly disappointed in me every body want their parents to nee of the utmost moral character


so heres my advice 

how about being friendly humble and helpful

as for my experiment its not to improve my thc % im happy at 28% thc 

my experiment was simply to do what others can't afford to do so if im lucky enough to have the funds why would ny i fid a gap in th want to know compartment of all growers

what approach will make the most production and potent bud 

i am only doing my experiment with helpful intentions so don't one so contrite

i have the funds to answer the question posed 
combine that with i just want to know = why not

i can tell you I've tested almost every light vs the chinese version

and the 630 CMH from china stood side by side with nanolux

on and on

i even tested the thc after a hand trim by a damn fine trimmer vs the top end trimmers 

of which i found the twister with its smaller barrel give a fine fine trim without over handling i was alway a hand trimmer even at crazy weight id bring in 30 people for 3 days feeds them put up with all the hassle of managing people because i believed machine plucked off thc precious thc

there are nlky two machine trimmers id recommend that came out one hand trimming the point is i challenged my own belief wu=ith a fool proof scientific approach 
and upon testing hands down the twister with its conveyors and small barrel which don't allow product to ride up th side of th barrel where the r is no cutting blade 

anyway machine won easily again to the point im blessed where i can do these things and why cus nobody like to get ripped off mislead by sneaky sale claims that nobody can confirm or truly deny unless we test it 


so i started doing that 

opened up a hydro store aND SOLD HONEST AFFORDABLE ITEMS THAT WERE PROVCED TO BE SUFFICIENT 

as that is where im at in life hoping others is true happiness we are gifted and blessed with wealth not to hoard it but to hand it out 

thats why im not a stingy cheap fuk 

i have enough fore this life time and next 

i want to leave this planet and the people around me in a better place that incwhich i was born into

and if its which things as irrelevant as growing herb well why not why should the average guy get taken advantage of we as growers are all getting fuked the nth claims of this scamming industry bottom feeders that sell the tool see use 


heres a thought 

to increase productivity look at how the plant grows and maximize those functions as a minor differences in bulb and reflectors made people lose sight of the real potential 

and that is manipulation through the plants own process via proper nutes

iron homeostasis 

fulvic acid + kelp ( which contains iron and allows the plant to stimulate (via iron) the formation of more chlorophyll= chloroplasts = plants increased ability to harvest more light energy= more sugars = higher nutritional and medicinal value of the buds

understanding the nutrients to the smallest degree is where the game is at

one needs to understand the plant as a whole how and why it does things in order to manipulate those processes

but that would require regular lab work which most cannot 

im in the position as where im blessed to afford such non consequential things in life remember this is just growing fukin plant its not family its not life 

have u ever been to a nation where kids walk aroundd at the age of 6 with out parents begging for food 

if u had ur attitude wouldn't be one of hmmm how can i put it a jerk ya a jerk

this is the personality u wish to foster so one day the upraising a family u can past down to ur children

im much more than a grower

but 
heres what u want u want me to show you a picture of the equipment i own 
where is that going to get me

how about i call truce fly u up here and you can see it first hand 

and maybe leave with more info than u can as well as myself 

i wish not to banter back and forth with cheeky ass comments

i wish only to learn and if i can share some knowledge but ur attitude is not conducive to learning thats not ur intentions 

no need to admit to anyone but yourself i know me and k=i know ur type 

but hers why i let shit slide 

at 18 years old im pulling up with my GF to a restaurant all full of myself cus i just bouf=ght a new 1989 chef 4x4 off the lot $26,000 was a lot in 1989

iu was the fukin man cus i had 16inch rims 

which now the rotors on my bow dwarf 16 inch rims 
as i was pulling into a parking stall a older guy nosed in and now it was a stand off

i get beating my chest like a faking retsrd now i lok back on it 

yelling he starts to yell and its on face to face i was a disrespectful fukin spoiled brat I've always had money and its mostlyy been a disservice in obtaining self contentment it ws always on to the next toy to find happiness and so on

any way not backing down being a dick i kept at this guy whom i know recognize is my senior and at least 55 yrs old yet no respect in my mouth i continued

at which he broke down and said " im sorry junior . im in a baad mood my mom died this morning, believe u me just typing this memory bring tears flooding down my face i was so ashamed at that point i could have crawled un der the pavement to hide , it was a disgusting show of arrogance which that day i folded never to repeat,

any way i quietly got into my truck backed out and gave top the spot to embe=arrssed to even apologize

leaving the restuafreant i whispered to th waitress " see that gentleman in th back , don't d=say anything to him but im paying his tab again please don't mention it was I


upon leaving i was jumping in my truck

out runs this man whom disgraced earlier with my self righteous banter and offence to him

with out hesitation wee extended our hands and then it happened i broke next thing i noticed we were both crying hugging and being fellow caring human beings 

which gets to my point 

i don't know what is going on in ur life where ui fell the need to be cheeky and a smart ass to me

so i let it slide 
more over isn't this forum a place to learn and to help other learn from our success and failures 

one day u will mature to th point that u realize only health matters life is bigger than our grows even though we put in countless hours lots of attention

when i was i newbie a


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## qwizoking (May 25, 2016)

lmao


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## hd deuce (May 25, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> right and how old is said mother.....
> obviously old enough to determine sex?
> or...what process was used, in your mind once the plant reaches maturity what else is changing?



so if u want to be peaceful and helpful o one another im game 


until next week


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## Pureblood89 (May 25, 2016)

I've found out through trial and error that if you wait for the plant to show sex in veg (usually 5-6 weeks for indicas) you cut flowering time down significantly and it shortens the "stretch" length. Not sure if it puts on more resin output though.


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## mr sunshine (May 25, 2016)

hd deuce said:


> here lies the issue
> 
> with all internet communication no checks in place to keep people from being less than respectable
> 
> ...


Lmfao..epic meltdown bro.


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## mr sunshine (May 25, 2016)

Let me get this straight. . You're running an experiment on different vegg times and how that effects potency...and you're going to use clones from a mother plant? Don't see the irony in this situation? They're all always going to be the same age. The mother plant is vegging all day. Cutting a piece of her and vegging another 2 weeks or 3 weeks or 1 day doesn't matter.. it's the same plant same age. Wtf are you thinking? If you did use seeds it still would be flawed because of different phenotypes.


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## mr sunshine (May 25, 2016)

Once it's mature it's mature.. takes 2 months from seed. You're mistaking what maturity is with what a super strong root system would do.


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## hd deuce (May 25, 2016)

mr sunshine said:


> Once it's mature it's mature.. takes 2 months from seed. You're mistaking what maturity is with what a super strong root system would do.


i did not know that

thanks for the heads up


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## hd deuce (May 25, 2016)

mr sunshine said:


> Once it's mature it's mature.. takes 2 months from seed. You're mistaking what maturity is with what a super strong root system would do.



i understand roots are the key 

i use 4.5 x 4.5 ' pods 3 ft deep

with mesh shelving very 8 inches inside the pod 
with a 5 micron fogger pumping into the pods

the mesh shelves big enough to let roots through but small enough size to inhibit them enough where as they don't fall sgtrainght down this fosters huge root development
as th ebewnefits a a true aero system are exposing the roots to oxygen and cute continuously if they were to be allowed rot just drop a majority of them would would no longer be exposed to max o2 and nutes 


i get crazy results this way

normally keep clipping in cloner till they get nice long roots 
is about 4 inches height i put them under 400 hd tie they hit 5 nodes 5 nodes is the goal for single cola grows 

when they hit five nodes straight to flower

in a 4.5 x 4.5 pod i stuff 255 plants clip all side branches day 6 n day 12 of flower

this give me true single cola growth 

36-42 inches of one single donkey dik i can't take credit for this i seen it in u tube video years ago and never went back to tree growing 

avg 1 oz per plant not much until u consider there are 255 in each pod under one 630CMH lamp

i welcome any ideas on how i can run this little experiment to get best results thats the goal

i dont aim to prove anything just want to know the answer is longer veg beneficial ???



im not looking for more thc 
avg 28% if a person need more than that id suggest concentrates

cheers


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## qwizoking (May 25, 2016)

you ever gonna post those brain scans?


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## hd deuce (May 25, 2016)

mr sunshine said:


> Let me get this straight. . You're running an experiment on different vegg times and how that effects potency...and you're going to use clones from a mother plant? Don't see the irony in this situation? They're all always going to be the same age. The mother plant is vegging all day. Cutting a piece of her and vegging another 2 weeks or 3 weeks or 1 day doesn't matter.. it's the same plant same age. Wtf are you thinking? If you did use seeds it still would be flawed because of different phenotypes.


i understand the pheno types but how else can one figure out then different phone yes is a variable but if the veg time is that much of a difference should it not show top this way

what do u suggest how to run the experiment


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## qwizoking (May 25, 2016)

hd deuce said:


> i dont aim to prove anything just want to know the answer is longer veg beneficial ???


already been answered


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## mr sunshine (May 25, 2016)

hd deuce said:


> i understand roots are the key
> 
> i use 4.5 x 4.5 ' pods 3 ft deep
> 
> ...


Longer veg will give you bigger plants that produce more bud, But you can compensate by adding more plants. So it just comes down to your style of growing. It can be beneficial, it just depends on the situation.


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## hd deuce (May 25, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> you ever gonna post those brain scans?





qwizoking said:


> already been answered


so it za dead issue waste of time im hearing 

how can it be determined then ? if at all

and if it can't why did not anyone say that in earlier threads


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## hd deuce (May 25, 2016)

mr sunshine said:


> Longer veg will give you bigger plants that produce more bud, But you can compensate by adding more plants. So it just comes down to your style of growing. It can be beneficial, it just depends on the situation.


so im not losing out on thc punch by flowering less mature ladies


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## hd deuce (May 25, 2016)

mr sunshine said:


> Let me get this straight. . You're running an experiment on different vegg times and how that effects potency...and you're going to use clones from a mother plant? Don't see the irony in this situation? They're all always going to be the same age. The mother plant is vegging all day. Cutting a piece of her and vegging another 2 weeks or 3 weeks or 1 day doesn't matter.. it's the same plant same age. Wtf are you thinking? If you did use seeds it still would be flawed because of different phenotypes.



what about growing out 20 of each for each veg time 

then take out the highest and lowest potency plants of each category and the take avg thc %

would this not work ?


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## hd deuce (May 25, 2016)

mr sunshine said:


> Lmfao..epic meltdown bro.



i agree


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## pookat (May 25, 2016)

From seed....its gonna be a long veg.....guess the weight


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## mr sunshine (May 25, 2016)

hd deuce said:


> so im not losing out on thc punch by flowering less mature ladies


How can they be less mature if they are clones from the same mother plant's? Let's just say you're using seeds, when they're immature they won't flower because they are to young. It's like people bro. A 3 year old can't give birth she's gotta grow up first. Plants take 2 months to be mature enough to be able to flower (give birth). Once it's mature "that's two months from seed." It's never going to get younger, clones are the exact same plant so it's as old as that plant . You gotta study how the plant works. You're not completely understanding that your question doesn't really make sense. Longer veg just means bigger plants....


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## mr sunshine (May 25, 2016)

hd deuce said:


> what about growing out 20 of each for each veg time
> 
> then take out the highest and lowest potency plants of each category and the take avg thc %
> 
> would this not work ?


No that won't work. You don't get it. I would just forgot about it it's a dumb question that has no answer. You can trick yourself into thinking you will find an answer but obviously a question that doesn't even make sense. It's actually a question a person asks when they don't understand the basic fundamentals of a Marijuana plant... growing weed doesn't work the way you made yourself believe it did.


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## qwizoking (May 25, 2016)

alright my knowledge of botany and cannabis aside....remember this post?


qwizoking said:


> not necessarily your lack of understanding the production of thc and other compounds within the vesicle etc and well im sure ill get to that after your next response



that would seem to go over your head.

anecdotal evidence would ALSO suggest nothing is changing.. to expand on what has been said, i can grow a landrace sativa (love em) if i put it on 12/12 from seed it will not flower until it's "mature"

There are three physiologicaldevelopments that must occur in order for "flowering" to take place: firstly, the plant must pass from sexual immaturity into a sexually mature state (i.e. a transition towards flowering); secondly, thetransformation of the apical meristem function from a vegetative meristem into a floral meristem or inflorescence, this is all visible once you can see sex appear on the plant.. An external stimulus is then required in order to trigger the differentiation of the meristem into a flower. This stimulus will activate mitotic cell division in the meristem, particularly on its sides where new primordia are formed. This same stimulus will also cause the meristem to follow adevelopmental pattern that will lead to the floral growth..bud begins to form

ill try and keep it simple.

so now that the plant is old enough it begins to flower and form buds. this formation is the same on an 8 month old plant,

the buds off that harvest will be the same, say i like that landrace from seed and i choose to leave some foliage after harvest and reveg ie i decrease darkness below the critical night length (back to 18/6 or whatever) and veg for another 2 years. there are no developmental changes and the bud is just as good. this is known by any grower who has done 12/12 from seed to burn through stock and select mothers...,


back to my quote, thc production

thc is produced...
inside the trichomes
Geranyl pyrophosphate and a precursor to olivetolic acid react, a c12 (for pentyl) c10(for propyl)polyketide,then through cyclization yielding olivetolic acid..

then catalyzed by an enzyme to produce cannabigerolic acid along with alkylation .. The production of Thc (and propyl)thcv cbd cbdv and cbc cbcv are controlled by 3 different enzymes Thca synthase being the enzyme converting cbga to thca through an oxidative cyclization of the geranyl group on cbga(of course this is all a bit, well really simplified for y'all) geranyldiphosphate + olivetolate =cannabigerolate + diphosphate.. cannabigerolate + O(2) = Delta(9)-tetrahydrocannabinolate + H(2)O(2)




these precursors and enzymes can be altered slightly through environmental factors say through uv and the corresponding photoreceptor (uvr8 )
but overall this is predetermined by genetics in the seed.. age of the plant WILL NOT affect what the individual trichome is doing, they are formed on the bud which forms during flower in both cases 





i hope this makes sense... be happy i took the time to post this nonetheless and understand i did not copy off of some site, i understand thc's production..if thats atleast adding to some credibility


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## qwizoking (May 25, 2016)

ugh i prefer to only talk intelligently or use my nogin at work

look what you made me do lol


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## Budzbuddha (May 25, 2016)

For higher THC ... Isn't it just fucking easier to roll your buds in kief .
And fucking be done with it. 

LOL ...


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