# Magnetic vs Digital Ballasts.



## Carthoris (Aug 19, 2010)

I started out trying to decide if I wanted a 600w digital vs magnetic. Ive been thinking on it for a week, and I thought I had decided digital. Then, being me, I ran through a list of pros and cons, and did a review of what is known for both of them. I realized I had written a lot, and so I thought I would share it with the forum.

Digitals COULD save you 5-10% energy, add 5% light, and reduce heat and noise. Im not sure if that is true, but we will accept it at face value for this post.

Im comparing 400 watters because most beginners use 400w first, and they are most likely to need someone to talk to them about how lights work. Things that are true for 400w's are more than likely true for other wattages one would assume.

If you DIY, a 400w ballast will be about 50 bucks. A prebuilt 400w magnetic light is about 120 bucks, and a 400w digital is 220, thats with reflectors ect. 

100 dollar premium for digital. 

These aren't arent, they are made for a single purpose, lighting up our rooms. Do we care if its the newest technology? I don't. So I am looking at it in a subjective way. Is the +'s of the digital worth 100 dollars, lets see.

Cost/Efficiency
Efficiency to me is how much light I get for 1$. Without going into the math part of it too deeply. A KWH(1000 watts of energy) costs about 10 cents from the power company. 400w magnetics use about 480w of energy to operate, so about 6000 watts a day, that 60 cents. 60(cents) x 30(days) = 18.00.
So, it costs about 20 bucks to run a 400w magnetic hps for the month. 5 percent of 20 dollars is 1 dollar. You will take about 100 months, lets say 8 years, to recoup your 100 dollars. I doubt the digital ballast would last that long, or that if you are still growing in 8 years you wont have moved up. Even if you add in the 5% increase in light, you are still going to use the ballast for 5 years or so before you break even. Even though it flies against what most of you would agree with, the very clear winner here is Magnetic.

Winner: Magnetic

Reliability
I don't think anyone argues that digital is more reliable than magnetic. It is simply a given. Kind of like a rock is harder than a piece of foam, noone who isn't retarded is going to argue that. Time has proven Magnetic reliability.

Winner: Magnetic

Heat
If you have a horrible time keeping your temps right, and you keep your ballast in your grow, then a digital could help you some. How much? Well, not as much as you might think, maybe 5% of total heat output. Sure the ballast is cooler, but the light is putting out 5% more, and thus will be hotter. 5% less energy is being used though, so you will have a net 5% less heat. If you have your ballasts remotely installed there is no benefit to the digital heatwise. The bulb is still hot, and possibly hotter using the digital due to more light being produced at the bulb. I have never noticed my 400w magnetic being a heat issue, but I have proper ventilation. That being said.

Winner: Digital

Noise
Any of you who have used a magnetic ballast, know the sound of it. However, just how loud is it? 2 feet from my 400w hps ballast with the door closed, I cannot hear it at all. Uninsulated walls, listening for it, and I cannot hear my grow at all. In fact, my air pump, exhaust fan, and my circulation fan are all louder than my magnetic ballast. Will you ever have your magnetic ballast running without your fans on? I really think the noise is a non issue, but the digitals win this.

Winner: Digital

Digital issues I didn't mention:
Some might have RF issues. IE: Maybe your TV/Radio or your Neighbors wont work. Its like broadcasting a radio signal that could cause a security concern.

Magnetic issues I didn't mention:
Heavy
Possible flickering. Ive never noticed this honestly, and I have looked for it.

Conclusion:
I believe I have changed my own mind about buying a digital. There is no difference in yields or quality of the crop, if your light works properly. The most important things to me are reliability and cost(both purchase and operating costs) I think I have shown that the efficiency(in dollars) of the digital ballast is mostly word play, and until the costs come down and the reliability comes up that they are not the right choice to make for most people. That hundred dollars from the initial purchase could easily be applied towards CO2, a nice inline fan, the electric bill, getting better meters/nutrients, or any number of grow items that may actually make a difference in how good your grow is. You wouldn't give the electric company 100 dollars cash today to lower your bill 2 dollars a month for the next 4-5 years, why would you give it to a digital ballast company? So, for the foreseeable future, in my opinion, Magnetic ballasts are the sweet spot in ballasts.

Overall winner:
Magnetic


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## mr.mike (Aug 19, 2010)

+rep cause your head didnt explode


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## Carthoris (Aug 19, 2010)

LOL, it didn't, but just barely. It was a lot of information and I had to put it down on paper to truly appreciate it. Thanks for the rep!


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## Little Tommy (Aug 19, 2010)

I bought a used magnetic ballast 400 watt hps that someone had been using about 5 years. I have used it another 3 years after that. One day, the light didn't come on. I took the ballast apart, removed the capacitor and ignitor, went to the lighting parts store, purchased the replacement parts ($47.00) came home. installed the new parts. The whole process took about 2 hours and it is like brand new again. The power supply rarely goes bad and the shop where I bought the parts said that I could bring in the ballast next time and they would test everything for me for free. You can't do that with those expensive digital ballasts. I keep the ballast outside the flowering room as it does generate a little heat and have never heard it make any noise.


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## gobbly (Aug 19, 2010)

Really good evaluation 

The 5% light output is really the only thing solid state has going for it in my mind. I dunno about cooler, though they very well could be. My digital ballast seems to get as hot as my magnetic one.

Something not mentioned, you can't run CMH on digital ballasts.

Edit: In fact, not sure how much variation there would be model to model, but I just checked my magnetic ballast surface temp and it's 109.5 f. I'll edit this again and add my digital ballast surface temp tonight when it kicks on 

Edit 2: 122.5 f for the digital ballast. Different rooms though, and different brands, so dunno what you draw from that...


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## g13skunk (Aug 19, 2010)

ibought a digital 600w and it blew after a year


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## Carthoris (Aug 19, 2010)

I don't read anyone having issues with their magnetic ballasts anywhere, but I do see a LOT of digital ballast issues, even from the 'good' brands. 110 degrees is barely hotter than the human body. I think the heat produced by a single ballast is negligible and only really makes a difference in a grow that has 5k watts or something equally overkill.

As far as the economy, it reminds me of people buying Prius's because gas is expensive. Yes, the Prius is obviously more gas efficient, and it sounds awesome - BUT:

If you drive 11k miles a year, and you get (its actually more like 37 on highway) 30 mpg with a regular 15k dollar car, say a Hyundai Accent. In 10 years, you will have used about 3500 gallons in gas (in something like 110k miles) Gas is under 3 bucks here, and has only been above $3 like for a year in the last 10. So lets just round it off to $10k in gas. So 25k dollars you spent for a driving 10 years, gas and car.

Hyundai Accent: 23 cents a mile


So, The Prius will be around 25k dollars to buy, and it gets about 50 mpg(its really more like 45 at best). So in 10 years/110k miles you will have spent about $6500 in gas.

Toyota Prius: 29 cents a mile

Basically the Toyota Prius is going to cost you 6500 more, and that's not counting interest on the payments - since your car payment normally has interest on his, and your gas bill doesnt, it could be more like 10-15k more based on that. And its not like the Prius is a nicer car or anything.

Even though one is obviously more efficient with energy, it is obviously not cost effective. Same deal with ballasts.


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## Spanishfly (Aug 20, 2010)

Magnetic for ever - just a huge inductance that will LAST for ever - no fragile solid state chips that burn out in a year or so.


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## KrAzY80 (Aug 20, 2010)

Did we forget that digital offers the ability to run MH as well ass HPS. One light setup for veg and flower. Not saying this takes the cake but for some its a money saver for confined spaces.


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## CRYSTAL ICEMAN (Aug 20, 2010)

there are mag. that allow you to switch...I was looking for info on this as i started with a sun systems 10-1000w hps that is now 12yo n still works good. It was time 2 buy more lights and I started using the galaxy 600w set-ups the first year they were out. The first one blew in about a year and blew 2 bulbs also!! Pain in the ass that was!! They gave me a new one and since then they have fixed the probs. I have bought 4 more since then with no probs at all. I was flip floping @ on the last 1 thinking I just need more light and dont want to spend alot. The price diff. for me is @ $50......IDK what to think...Ive got to make a order for 4 more and not sure best way to go?? Anyone with thoughts please reply!!


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## mlad (Aug 20, 2010)

I just started my first grow this year. I purchased a 250w digital ballast and it stopped working within 2 days. Took it back for replacement under warranty and the new one pooped out in less than a week. I'm on my 3rd ballast and it's lasted over a month now, but I'm not very confident in these things.


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## midwestfarmer (Aug 20, 2010)

KrAzY80 said:


> Did we forget that digital offers the ability to run MH as well ass HPS. One light setup for veg and flower. Not saying this takes the cake but for some its a money saver for confined spaces.


Ditto That. That was one of the reason i went digital. The magnetic switchable ballast cost as much as the digital, so I went digital.


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## SysKonfig (Aug 20, 2010)

midwestfarmer said:


> Ditto That. That was one of the reason i went digital. The magnetic switchable ballast cost as much as the digital, so I went digital.


 Not quite. I got a 1000watt switchable ballast for $150. For a 1000watt digital ballast we're talking almost double that at $300.


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## Carthoris (Aug 21, 2010)

i have seperate mh ballasts, i just bought a 600 watt ballast for 90 with shipping included. i could buy a 150dollar generic 600 digital ballast but it it probably wouldnt last a week. even the lumateks have a high failure rate compared go magnetics.


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## Spanishfly (Aug 21, 2010)

KrAzY80 said:


> Did we forget that digital offers the ability to run MH as well ass HPS. One light setup for veg and flower. Not saying this takes the cake but for some its a money saver for confined spaces.


And of course you can get MH bulbs that are compatible with a HPS (cheaper magnetic) ballast - a cheaper solution than a switchable digital ballast.


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## Carthoris (Aug 21, 2010)

I would think that when most people move up to a 600w that they probably have clones and a clone chamber, I don't ever veg and flower in the same place. If I had not found the 600w magnetic shipped for under 100 bucks, I would of just went with a ballast kit and made my own (about 70 bucks shipped) Its worth 20 bucks for me to have the proper case.

Also, I went and checked my magnetic ballast, I can put my hand right on the power supply and its not even hot. Its warm, but I could hold it in my hand forever and it wouldn't burn me. I think the heat produced by it (a 400) is negligible, and thats without a fan blowing on it. I bet if I put a computer heatsink on it it would be cool to the touch. Also, you ever notice that a lot of digitals have fans on them? If digitals dont get hot, whats the point in having a fan? My 400w hps magnetic is about as hot as my air pump(barely warm).

A 400w conversion bulb for MH is only like 35bucks, if you really wanted one. A 600W mh conversion is like 75-90. Though a MH 600w only puts out like 50,000 lumens vs your 90-95k hps bulb. I dont see any reason if you want to veg with HID not to just use the HPS, Im sure the intensity makes up for the lack of spectrum at least most of the way. I find that cool white cfls work well for me, and I have about 25 400w mhs sitting in my shed not being used. I just dont see having to deal with a bunch of heat for some plants that I only want to be 12 inches tall anyway, I could just veg them under the hps for a week if I really wanted.


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## Alaric (Aug 21, 2010)

only brand of digital I've used is lumitek----both 600 and 1K. I Like the option of the adjustable output for different wattage bulbs---had some problems at first with the 1Ks-----but they have a 5 year warranty (3 full, 2 prorated).

There is a noticeable difference in heat reduction from the mag type-----not to mention way lighter.

My preference right now.

A~~


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## Carthoris (Aug 21, 2010)

I dont generally stand around holding my ballast, so weight doesn't really matter to me. It might to some, however. As far as heat, its such a small difference even in your cab, if you keep your ballasts external you would never notice a difference. In a technical sort of way Digitals sound WAY better, but in real life, its not true. Kind of like my comparing the Prius to a regular car. Considering a 600w digital only saves a couple bucks a month in electricity, if you believe the manufacturer, efficiency isnt a real benefit since the ballast probably wont last long enough to make you back your money. 5 years, and that would just be breaking even. Wouldn't you of rather had another 100 dollar fan, good ph tester, air cooled hood or something useful during those 5 years? 

As soon as digital ballasts are the same price and as reliable as magnetics, Ill be happy to jump onto the ship, until then, I don't think they are worth it.


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## Alaric (Aug 21, 2010)

Yea, I don't stand around holding my ballasts either-----so that's just a small point.

I don't use "cabs"----instead a 22' x 22' garage with 4x1Ks for flowering and 2 x1Ks for veg ( floros and T5s for clones).

Already have good testers, air cooled light tubes, movers, 8" inline ozone gererator, and inline blowers and fans.

I agreed about the price right now----too high for most folks.

"my opinions and beliefs don't matter as much as my right to have them and your right to have yours"--A. Einstein.

A~~


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## Token Winston (Aug 21, 2010)

Hmm...at first I thought proponents of magnetic ballasts were a bunch of luddites. I was sure I would only buy a digital ballast. Now, I am not so sure. Still, the effortless switch from MH to HPS is strongly compelling.


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## bajafox (Aug 21, 2010)

I've had both, my plants would be dead if I still ran a magnetic ballast. My ambient temperature in my room went up during cool days. I never got my temperatures to stick under 90 for a 12 hour period. Then I switched to a Lumatek digital ballast. For weeks my temps stuck around 82 - 86 until this recent heat wave in SoCal, I just switched it down from 600w Super Lumens to 360w, now my temps are at a reasonable 88 - 91 during the hottest part of the day. I accidentally left it on at full power the other day and my temps were at 95, with the magnetic ballast I have no doubt my tent would have hit 100+. 

Good luck with whatever you go with, I'd gladly put up the $200 a year for my digital ballast over that magnetic p.o.s. I was using.


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## cowboylogic (Aug 21, 2010)

KrAzY80 said:


> Did we forget that digital offers the ability to run MH as well ass HPS. One light setup for veg and flower. Not saying this takes the cake but for some its a money saver for confined spaces.


You can run a MH in a HPS ballast. But not an HPS in a MH ballast. And the new Lumatek switchable ballasts will fire a CMH along with Hortilux bulbs.


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## cowboylogic (Aug 21, 2010)

Spanishfly said:


> And of course you can get MH bulbs that are compatible with a HPS (cheaper magnetic) ballast - a cheaper solution than a switchable digital ballast.


Any regular MH bulb will fire in an HPS ballast with no worries.. No need to buy a conversion bulb. If you go magnetic the get and HPS. Then your good too go with either bulb.


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## assasinofyouth420 (Aug 21, 2010)

I have the Lumated digital 400. I keep it out of my grow area but I still feel it to make sure nothing is wrong and it always stays pretty cool (comparative to magnetics). I went with digital because it was only a little bit more than comparable Sun Systems copper wound ballast.


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## Carthoris (Aug 21, 2010)

Bajafox, that's due to your inadequate ventilation more than anything. Wouldn't moving the ballast outside the grow room (as simple as drilling 1 hole and a piece of tape to lightproof it) have fixed the issue, or perhaps getting a better fan. The 200 bucks you probably spent on the digital when you already had a magnetic could of been used to a) buy a room ac and ran it for a couple months b) buy a better exhaust fan c) buy an awesome air cooled hood d) got you a CO2 setup, with CO2, with your temps, CO2 would help not kill your plants.

Also, if its getting 100 degrees in your cab, you definitely need to rethink your approach. Whats the point of having a 600w if you can only run it at 350 watt because your grow room is inadequate to deal with the heat? 

Its like buying a big fin for your car. Technically it helps you stay on the road at high speeds - but your car doesn't go fast enough to need it. I think most people just buy it because it seems 'cool'. Yes, digital ballasts are sexy, but they don't make sense yet. Id like to thank all you early adopters of it for making it profitable for a company to give you beta testing products, but until it is as reliable as a magnetic and closer to the same price, whats the point? In their main function, turning the light on and keeping it on, Magnetics rule the day due to reliability and cost. Its not like its a car and people are going to see it, its just sitting in a closet or a room somewhere.

If money is no object and you are OK with digital reliability, go for it. Most people look at the cost vs performance. Magnetics are cheaper in both short term and long term. If you bought a digital today, by the time you saved the difference in energy it will be outdated and we will have plasma lights. Heat and Weight are the only 2 things that digital has over magnetic, and I think I can live with a heavy box that puts out a little more heat, especially when it can be put outside the cabinet.


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## bajafox (Aug 21, 2010)

Carthoris said:


> Bajafox, that's due to your inadequate ventilation more than anything. Wouldn't moving the ballast outside the grow room (as simple as drilling 1 hole and a piece of tape to lightproof it) have fixed the issue, or perhaps getting a better fan. The 200 bucks you probably spent on the digital when you already had a magnetic could of been used to a) buy a room ac and ran it for a couple months b) buy a better exhaust fan c) buy an awesome air cooled hood d) got you a CO2 setup, with CO2, with your temps, CO2 would help not kill your plants.


Hello Carthoris, thanks for your reply.

My point is that with the exact same set up I have now, if I were to replace my digital ballast for the magnetic ballast, in the exact same spot under the exact same conditions, my magnetic ballast would make everything hotter. I know this because the only thing I've changed from when I did have heating issues to where I don't, was my ballast. 



> Also, if its getting 100 degrees in your cab, you definitely need to rethink your approach. Whats the point of having a 600w if you can only run it at 350 watt because your grow room is inadequate to deal with the heat?


There is nothing to rethink, my set up is perfectly dialed in. The point of running 360w is because I CAN, and when I choose to and the conditions are good, which is 80% of the time in San Diego, I can run it at 600w Super Lumens. Can you do that with a magnetic ballast? Once the heat wave is over I'm back to 600w SL at a comfortable 78 - 84 degree's and according to the weather, it should be within a week


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## Token Winston (Aug 21, 2010)

***More lumen output...20%-30% more lumens output...More light equals more yield***

The above is Lumatek's claim. I have no way of knowing, but if true it is a huge difference.


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## mr.smileyface (Aug 21, 2010)

I recentlty bought two digital 1000 watters that are dimmable to 750,600. 
I noticed about 20 % more light and less heat in the room. Those old magnetic ones are garbage. They give off so much unwanted heat and they hum more than a hooker on wensday. 
I know a guy who recently bought 20 brand new digitals. He was getting 1.8 with Purple kush, connisuer(an), and old ballasts. He wasnt happy with 1.8 off purple kush. So he spend the extra 7 grand to get 20 digitals. Now he gets 2.2 a light. Thats on a larger scale. More light in the room, the more it adds up. So the extra lumens the digitals pumps out made a huge differnce. I havent heard of anyone getting 2.2 off purple kush. cept for him.
I think im sold on digitals because you could run a flipflop and save the start up fee on the ballasts. They have a three year warranty


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## Spanishfly (Aug 21, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> Any regular MH bulb will fire in an HPS ballast with no worries..


If you say so. But then why do they make compatible bulbs?


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## Spanishfly (Aug 21, 2010)

mr.smileyface said:


> Those old magnetic ones are garbage. They give off so much unwanted heat and they hum more than a hooker on wensday.


But they will still be humming when your super whizz digital is IN the garbage.


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## cowboylogic (Aug 21, 2010)

Spanishfly said:


> If you say so. But then why do they make compatible bulbs?


I say so and know so. So they can take uninformed folks like yourself's money. I have read some of your posts. Your not really all that in the know. 

Lumateks dimmable ballasts are the Catass IMO.


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## Spanishfly (Aug 22, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> You can run a MH in a HPS ballast. But not an HPS in a MH ballast.


Could you explain why that is??


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## Spanishfly (Aug 22, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> I have read some of your posts. Your not really all that in the know.


Never read any of yours. Just an ex-sailor here trying to grow some bud. Peace, friend.


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## Carthoris (Aug 22, 2010)

SpanishFly:
A MH ballast and the HPS sodium ballast are essentially the same thing, the only difference being an igniter. I have actually wired the ballasts from my MH's in place of my HPS and they fired just fine. A switchable ballast is only a HPS ballast that has a switch that turns the igniter off and on. So if you have a HPS ballast, you could a) just try it. It most likely will work, or b) add a switch in (make sure its good enough) for like 5-10 bucks that disconnects the igniter in MH mode. (this is how a switchable works) Absolute worst case scenario is the bulb will pop. Its not like its going to burn the house down. The bulb is the weak point in the circuit, like a fuse. Just the same, I always test mine in the garage where its all concrete. I have about 10 different brands of MH 400w ballasts, and 1 hps ballast. I was testing the 400w hps to see if I could add an igniter in and make it work. The couple I tried worked, though who knows how it affects the bulb life. I had 30 400w MH's before I even started growing. lol, thats 12000 watts.

Bajafox: 
I wasn't saying you sucked. However, 100 dollars worth of fan might let you run your cab at ambient temps and allow you to run the 600 all year long full blast. Everything is a trade off, you are trading 100 bucks for a few degrees temp change, a fan might do the same thing. I air condition my grow, so the temperatures never change for me.

Alaric:
With 6 1000's thats about 1000 dollars extra you spent buying digital. How many degrees difference did you notice in your grow, and how much money would it have taken to remedy the heat difference? Simply moving the ballasts to a isolated spot would of make the entire heat difference a moot point wouldn't it of? Do you run CO2?


Everyone:
Noticing a difference and actually measuring a difference are two different things. Putting a new lightbulb in does the same thing, and I imagine most people get a new lightbulb if they are spending 400 on a ballast. Anyone reading actually measured lumen output from digital vs magnetic using same hood, bulb, ect?


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## Carthoris (Aug 22, 2010)

Spanishfly: Forgot to explain the igniter. It only does anything while the bulb is starting up, once the bulb starts, it is just kind of there. So once the MH is lit, it stops trying to ignite it and works the same as a switchable would. Thats why MH's will light up in a HPS.


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## bajafox (Aug 22, 2010)

Carthoris said:


> Bajafox:
> I wasn't saying you sucked. However, 100 dollars worth of fan might let you run your cab at ambient temps and allow you to run the 600 all year long full blast. Everything is a trade off, you are trading 100 bucks for a few degrees temp change, a fan might do the same thing. I air condition my grow, so the temperatures never change for me.


No worries, it's really difficult to understand someone's demeanor through a discussion board.

The reason I haven't done the simple upgrade is because I'm doing a major upgrade in a few weeks/months so until then the setup I have works just fine. I monitor my temps almost hourly since I am unemployed. I'm running a DR120W which is suitable for 400w, just so happens I was able to circulate enough air to actually run it at 600w SL when the conditions are good, which is the majority of the time. 

Happy Growing


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## Carthoris (Aug 22, 2010)

Baja, I have a stanley blower I modded for mine, and it keeps my grow 2-5 degrees over ambient. I have a second one, and if I hooked that up, I bet I could keep it almost ambient. I spent about 50 bucks all told on each stanley blower and they do 250 cfm or something like that. Real cfms, not the make believe ones on the boxes.

I really had the digital in my cart online, and I completely changed my mind by writing down the pros and cons of each and calculating the total cost over the operating life of each ballast. Its not a money thing, I have enough money to build whatever room I want, its a value thing.


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## bajafox (Aug 22, 2010)

To each his or her own right?  I am the same, money was not the issue for my ballast, it was about preference and the Lumatek seemed to fit my needs perfectly. I already had the magnetic one that I had bought off craigslist on an unbelievable deal. I sold it for $100 and purchased my $200 digital ballast, in the end, it was definitely all about value as I paid close to half for my new digital ballast using the old magnetic that I pretty much inherited on a packaged deal.


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## sonar (Aug 22, 2010)

Great post! +rep

However I just referenced one of my electrical textbooks and according to the author, digital ballasts can run up to 20% more efficient than magnetic and can significantly extend bulb life. Don't know if that's still enough to offset the cost, but I think like everything electronic the price will eventually go down and in time digital will be the norm.


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## Spanishfly (Aug 22, 2010)

Many thanks carthoris, a very clear answer to my question. +rep


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## Carthoris (Aug 23, 2010)

In the end, it seems like digitals' 'benefits' are make believe. Kind of like the benefits from buying a 50k battery powered car.


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## bajafox (Aug 23, 2010)

To the OP, go with magnetic and please update this thread when you switch to digital


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## Carthoris (Aug 23, 2010)

I bought the cheapest 600w magnetic I could buy - 90 dollars shipped. I've got the 2-300 to spend, what 600w digital do you suggest I run against it? 

Any new grower who comes to this thread trying to decide which to buy, these are the facts:

"efficiency" of digital ballasts have been proven to be offset by the initial cost of the ballast. (unless you run the digital ballast for 5 years, it cost more per day/week/month/year to run and how many digitals have been around for 5 years? Has anyone here had a digital ballast for 5 years? How many magnetic ballasts last for 10+ years?)

Magnetic Ballasts are reliable - most ballasts last longer than you will require them to, and if they break, they are easily repaired and for little $. Digital, if it breaks and its not under warranty you throw it away, its not fixable.

You are better served spending the 100$ on cooling or carbon filters than a digital, if you have been growing or 10 years and are just looking for the next upgrade maybe digitals are right for you.


If you are new, your budget probably isn't 10k dollars, and the 100+ you would save going magnetic could be applied towards exhaust, carbon filters, PH, or nutrients.


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## bajafox (Aug 23, 2010)

Personally, I don't know why any new grower with the budget for a 600w set up would even consider going magnetic, if you have the space and money to go for 600w, why not spend the extra $100 for a much cooler, dimmable and more efficient (regardless of the lifespan) ballast? To me, going magnetic on a 600w is cutting corners, I know because that was the first route I took.

I went digital and I'm never looking back, even if I have to buy 2 a year which I highly doubt I will have to do. I'm a new grower, only 4 months in and I had the money for the digital ballast, I had no problem dishing out the extra money for it.


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## Spanishfly (Aug 23, 2010)

Magnetic for ever - that´s how long they last as well !!!


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## Carthoris (Aug 23, 2010)

Baja, if you buy a digital ballast every 2 years vs a magnetic every 5 you are spending (300 for 600 digital vs 150 for 600 magnetic) $750 vs $150. Do you really think a few hundred dollars of exhaust wouldn't make the magnetic a more reliable, cost efficient, and cooler alternative? 600 dollars could probably run a room air conditioner(in Florida) for 5 years to keep your grow 75. (4x4 room insulated, it only costs me 300 max in summer to keep 1500 sq feet at 70, if you live somewhere that has a winter you will save much more) You could run CO2, AC, and then some for the cost of the digital.


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## bajafox (Aug 23, 2010)

Those numbers look great, but like I've said before, I already had magnetic. I'm not a big fan of the noise, the heat and to be honest, it just looked too damn ugly. I had the extra money for it so I spent it. 

I don't have any heating issues, my tent require's 400w and I can easily run 600w SL when the heat wave is over. I have it set to 400w right now over 6 plants and it hasn't gotten over 88F. Today I'm trying a new C02 "gadget" that my friend got at a hydro expo, they cost the same as it would to run C02 tanks minus the start up cost.


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## LT1RX7 Drifter (Aug 23, 2010)

screw digital balast my nextgen 400/600 is a pile of crap i have had it less then a year with less then 4 moths of use and it doesnt work at all only the cooling fans operate, and cap industries has the most horrible warranty, quote from greg fox "send it in and we replace with a refurbished unit" its company polisy to rip the consumer off, with nothing done about why it failed just replace a diode or resistor and test for a few hours and and check with two different meters and call it a day, design flaw period im not the only one either


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## bajafox (Aug 23, 2010)

I bought mine from my local hydroshop. I spoke to the owner and told him about my future plans and now I'm in his computer to automatically receive 15% off anything in his store. He told me personally that if I have any issues with my ballast over the next 3 years to bring it in. I paid extra for what I thought was the best digital ballast I could afford and for good quality service. I don't have a single worry about replacing my digital ballast if it goes bad for the next 3 years, which won't matter because I might not even need it by then


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## Carthoris (Aug 23, 2010)

Baja, I trust HTG supply as a company. I trust them to take care of me 100% if I buy something there that doesn't work properly, and do it quickly. I feel comfortable buying from them, and I trust them as a company. They are the best place to buy in my opinion. Best price, they price match, and even if it was a couple dollars more to order from ebay, Id order from HTGSupply because I true them. However, do I want to ship in a ballast every 6 months, no. I could buy a digital and not worry about it at all for replacements, but replacing it over and over would piss me off, especially when it costs more and there is little benefit to me (and most others) to buying one. 

I am going to contact HTG supply and see if they are interested in letting me run a digital greenhouse, a lumatek, and a magnetic generic against each other to see about light output and reliability.


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## Little Tommy (Aug 23, 2010)

I guess you can talk yourself into anything if you have to. lol


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## SysKonfig (Aug 23, 2010)

I just bought a 1000watt magnetic ballast online from HTG. Two $100 blown bulbs later I realized the ballast was defective. The bulbs would blow within 10 min of getting turned on. I had to find a hydro shop open on Sunday to buy a new ballast, and bulbs. HTG is closed Sun and Mon, so tomorrow I am going to go into the actual store and see just how right they're going to make this.


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## Spanishfly (Aug 23, 2010)

bajafox said:


> Those numbers look great, but like I've said before, I already had magnetic. it just looked too damn ugly. I had the extra money for it so I spent it.


You are bothered what it LOOKED LIKE?? OK, a fool and his money are soon parted.


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## bajafox (Aug 23, 2010)

Carthoris said:


> I am going to contact HTG supply and see if they are interested in letting me run a digital greenhouse, a lumatek, and a magnetic generic against each other to see about light output and reliability.


Let me know if you do, I'll be glad to read about it.



Spanishfly said:


> You are bothered what it LOOKED LIKE?? OK, a fool and his money are soon parted.


Did you even read my first post where I stated the difference in temperatures immediately after I switched to digital? 



bajafox said:


> I've had both, my plants would be dead if I still ran a magnetic ballast. My ambient temperature in my room went up during cool days. I never got my temperatures to stick under 90 for a 12 hour period. Then I switched to a Lumatek digital ballast. For weeks my temps stuck around 82 - 86 until this recent heat wave in SoCal, I just switched it down from 600w Super Lumens to 360w, now my temps are at a reasonable 88 - 91 during the hottest part of the day. I accidentally left it on at full power the other day and my temps were at 95, with the magnetic ballast I have no doubt my tent would have hit 100+.
> 
> Good luck with whatever you go with, I'd gladly put up the $200 a year for my digital ballast over that magnetic p.o.s. I was using.


Maybe next time you should read page 3 before skipping to page 5, lol


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## Spanishfly (Aug 23, 2010)

bajafox said:


> Did you even read my first post where I stated the difference in temperatures immediately after I switched to digital?


No, I was replying to your thread number 47 where you were just moaning how ugly it was and SPECIFICALLY stated that you had no heating issues. 

Come on, be consistent.


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## bajafox (Aug 23, 2010)

Looks like I'm not the fool then

Good luck to the OP's choice, it's your money, do whatever makes you happy with it. Life's too short... Happy Growing.


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## cowboylogic (Aug 23, 2010)

Carthoris said:


> In the end, it seems like digitals' 'benefits' are make believe. Kind of like the benefits from buying a 50k battery powered car.


Lumatek dimmable digital ballasts are the shit. Order from HTG Garden Supply. If it does go bad. Box it up and ship. Call them with the tracking number and the new ballast will pass the old ballast in the mail. But my 2-600's have performed flawlessly for over 2 years now. 3yr full/2yr prorated warranty. Hard too beat. And magnetic ballasts do go bad and fade over time. Nothing lasts forever. Get a light meter. Compare a cheap mag, high end mag and a lumatek. You will be surprised at the difference between the 3 when it comes to output. Lumatek wins everytime. Like alot of things in life. You get what you pay for.


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## cowboylogic (Aug 23, 2010)

Spanishfly said:


> Probably not - life is too short.


Then why do you answer questions when you obviously are not educated on the subject? Your answers are opinion, not fact. Like I said before, not that in the know.


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## Carthoris (Aug 25, 2010)

http://www.420magazine.com/forums/grow-supply-product-reviews/108192-truth-about-magnetic-ballasts-power-wastage.html

I came upon that, its a good read and interesting. The basics of it are he hooked up 2 400w's and 1 150w and checked it with an energy usage meter and it only came out to 962 watts. That means the ballasts(3 of them) were only sucking down 12 watts combined to power 950 watt of lights.(962 watts went in, 950 went out, in case anyone doesn't see that) How much more efficient can you get than that? Its only something like 5 watts being lost to the 400w magnetic ballast. Ill put some bullet points from it. Keep in mind, I didn't do these tests, and I'm just posting the information.

- a 400w hps magnetic ballast uses about 5 watts more than it outputs at normal operation. 
- Digital Ballasts may be rated more efficient by calculating the 'spike' of energy needed to start a bulb by the magnetic ballast. 
- 5 watts an hour x 12 = 60 x 30 = 1800. 1800 watts = 1.8 kw, 1.8 kw is something like 20 cents where I live, more or less. That would be the monthly savings for a digital in flowering according to those numbers.
- Someone suggested that the reason digital ballasts run cooler are because they are a huge aluminum heatsink, whereas magnetic ballasts have absolutely no heatsink in most cases. They went further to say this could be the only reason they are cooler, and not due to efficiency. 
- The reason most magnetic ballasts are loud is because your enclosure is cheap or the screws are loose or other issues not really due to it being magnetic.

The energy usage thing surprised me, but I already assumed the other things. I am going to get a lumen tester and a kill-a-watt and see how many watts my new 600 and my 400 use. My new 600, since its in a large commercial case actually makes less noise.

If digitals don't get hot, why do they have exhaust fans built in? Wouldn't putting an exhaust fan in the case of a magnetic ballast make it run very much cooler? Or alternatively a foot long aluminum heatsink on it like the lumateks?

On another note, switching from 400w hps to 600w hps with aircooled hood only raised the temps by 1 degree in my 2x4 with 1 modded stanley blower operating it.


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## mcpurple (Aug 25, 2010)

digital ballasts are way better and thats all i got to say, i have proved it to myself and so has a freind.
peace.


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## NoDrama (Aug 25, 2010)

I have 5 different Lumateks for many years now, never had a problem.


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## Carthoris (Aug 26, 2010)

If I were going to buy a digital ballast, I would buy a Lumatek. I have no doubt of that - but I got a 600w HPS ballast for 90 dollars. To buy a Lumatek from HTG, it would cost me 250 dollars + shipping (probably 275), I could of gotten one off ebay used to from a less reputable vendor for 175 probably, maybe less. However, you never know which ones malfunctioned, had RF shielding issues, ect ect. Some are purple, some are blue, dimmable, ect ect. I see a lot of the sub 200 dollar ones are older models - weren't they less reliable?

Paying 150 dollars to save a couple dollars a month wouldn't make sense to me. 

Also,
600w Magnetic ballast replacement after warranty expires - $75
600w Digital ballast replacement after warranty expires- $200

Spending the extra on a digital ballast at this time seems like a lackluster investment that is going to net me very little gains overall. Im only running a few degrees over ambient temperature in my grow. I'm not saying that digital ballasts don't perform as well or better if you get a good quality one, but the value(cost vs benefits) doesn't support the cost of a digital to me. Maybe in 3-5 years the price will be right, but by then something new will probably be out, like plasma lights or LEDs(ones that actually work).


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## NoDrama (Aug 26, 2010)

Yep and I agree totally. Bang for the buck its magnetic all the way. Im just saying that my lumateks have been top notch performers. Some have 25,000+ hours of use on them. They do have another advantage too, they are MUCH lighter and much easier to setup on a board on the wall so you don't have any cords of any kind near the plants or the floor. They hold their power output for the life of them, the magnetic ones lose some efficiency over time.They don't make any noise either. The main benefit is the extra light 5% more efficient = 5% more product=about an extra 5 grams per light(low estimate) = about an extra $75 per light. So they actually pay for themselves quite quickly. BUT to get setup on a budget mags are the way to go. You can have great buds without spending much money at all if you just have the knowledge.


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## Spanishfly (Aug 26, 2010)

NoDrama said:


> You can have great buds without spending much money at all if you just have the knowledge.


Agree totally with that. The very best light of all is completely free, for starters.


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## dbkick (Aug 26, 2010)

I've been running a 1000 watt digital welthink, I bought it new from a dude that had like 16 of them running and never had a problem, the specs say 20-30 percent less power and also 20-30 precent more lumens produced, the thing runs cool as can be. To each his own but make mine digital.


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## Carthoris (Aug 26, 2010)

dbkick, those power and lumens ratings are pretty much made up. Like saying a Prius gets 55 mpg, well, it does, driving 100 miles on cruise control with the ac off, and the windows up. It really gets about 40 mpg. The issue with those numbers are how are they calculating them? Im guessing that they are doing two things.

1) Turning a magnetic on, calculating the spike of startup, running it for an hour then shutting it off. How many of us run out light for an hour at a time?
2) Turning the magnetic on, then checking the lumen output in a way that tilts the balance towards the digital. Either by using it for a short amount of time or checking it every 5 minutes and then taking a median as the number.

I'm not saying digital isn't better if you get a reliable one. I'm saying that the differences are minor at best. If they were the same price, and I felt as comfortable with a digital as a magnetic, Id have no worries. I don't feel comfortable buying something that I don't perceive as being reliable for more money especially when the light output isn't much different.

Anyone here have a lumen reader and a kill-a-watt that can tell me how much electricity their 600w (digital or magnetic) is using?


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## bajafox (Aug 26, 2010)

Spanishfly said:


> Jeez, folks here have to get SO aggressive. Peace, bro.


Nice edit, but you were the one who got bent out of shape (look 2 posts down and you were quoted with your original message.) You need to read more before you go around calling people fools.



Carthoris said:


> If I were going to buy a digital ballast, I would buy a Lumatek. I have no doubt of that - but I got a 600w HPS ballast for 90 dollars. To buy a Lumatek from HTG, it would cost me 250 dollars + shipping (probably 275).


Now I see why you keep using price as part of your argument, you never even bothered to look around. If I were expecting to pay $275 for a Lumatek 600w digital ballast, I would have your mind set too. But they are NOT anywhere near $300. I paid $220 out the door for mine at my local shop even though I could have gotten it for $20 less at a shop 15 miles away. The reason I didn't bother doing the drive was because I had been there before and I stood around like a moron for 20 minutes before I was finally attended. I paid the extra money to get good quality service, have my questions answered and know that if I ever have a problem with my purchase that I have a place to go to that is less than 5 miles away for me to get fixed.

Here you go, $205 shipped to me in California if I really wanted to save the extra $: http://www.greners.com/ballasts/brand/lumatek/lumatek-electronic-ballast-hps-mh-600w-120v-240v-dimmable.html


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## crud (Aug 26, 2010)

ordered 2 1000w and 1 400w digital greenhouse systems from htgsupply a while ago and have not had issues at all with heat, noise or the aesthetic beauty of the ballasts.

during the mondo heat and humidity wave we had a few weeks ago, the ability to dim the bulbs saved my ass from the uncontrollable heat/hum swings of day/night. they spark faster too.

even if they did bust down and shit out, htg would bend over backwards to make it right like they have always done for me in the past.


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## dbkick (Aug 26, 2010)

I paid 2 bills for my 1kw digital welthink that seems to run like a charm.


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## Carthoris (Aug 26, 2010)

Baja, I definitely did price them. I was ready to buy one, I dont mind paying the premium for good service. I am using price as part of my argument, yes. I realize I can get one from ebay for 200 dollars shipped to my door, my HPS was 90 shipped to the door, for 75 I could of made my own ballast. If you look at the other posts besides that one, you will notice that I keep saying 100 dollars more and that they cost 200. If I were going to buy a digital, Id get it at HTGsupply though, because I would of gotten a new reflector with it and you can do a combo deal there to save money on a reflector. I feel more comfortable shopping with HTG because I know they will back their products. 

I dont see a 100 dollars of extra value in the digital ballasts. Spend 100 dollars extra for a small benefit or use the 100 dollars to buy something important to your grow. For the new grower who doesn't have thousands to spend (out of 100 growers, how many spend over 500 on first grow?) Wouldn't that 100 dollars buy you something more important? Like carbon filters or exhaust fans. How many people do you see starting with HPS and no carbon filter. This post wasn't directed at growers who have all the money in the world to spend on equipment, it was for the grower wanted to know what the best value is. If you have hundreds of extra dollars to spend on every item, go for it, if you want value, go Magnetic. Like I said before, its like buying a Prius vs a Yaris because of fuel efficiency to save money. You wont save money with a prius, but if driving it makes you happy, go for it. There is no value buying it, however.

Do any of you build your own computers? Would you spend double the money for a 5% increase in power?

I have never worried about HTG's customer service. If you find a cheaper price somewhere for the same item, they will match it for you, though really I have never had to order something they were very far off from. I don't just grow, and the nearest Hydro shop is 50 miles away. I trust HTG to be there for me in a pinch if I need them. Thats a feeling I rarely get at any business. 

Its more about having to be down for 3 days or a week with reliability. Saying its under warranty is like saying you don't care if your car breaks down on you cause its under warranty. You want to go a week without a light and have your light cycle interrupted because your ballast went down?

Crud, you could of saved 200 or more going magnetic - couldn't you of cured your heat issues with 200 dollars? If I was going to have a grow not covered by my house air conditioning I would probably buy a 100 dollar walmart air conditioner w/ digital thermostat and run it when the temps got out of control. As it is, my grow is in my bedroom, and I like it cold when I sleep, so I put a room AC to keep it 70 anyway. With a 600 in the closet my grow only goes to mid 70s at the top of the room, and 73 or so towards the bottom. Im running 5-6 degrees over ambient. If my grow was outside, Id probably be running 5-6 degrees over ambient there too. Its 90 degrees here, and I doubt Id be able to grow in the summer without AC. 

Db, that sounds like a good deal. What brand is it?


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## powerslide (Aug 26, 2010)

Carthoris said:


> Baja, I definitely did price them. I was ready to buy one, I dont mind paying the premium for good service. I am using price as part of my argument, yes. I realize I can get one from ebay for 200 dollars shipped to my door, my HPS was 90 shipped to the door, for 75 I could of made my own ballast. If you look at the other posts besides that one, you will notice that I keep saying 100 dollars more and that they cost 200. If I were going to buy a digital, Id get it at HTGsupply though, because I would of gotten a new reflector with it and you can do a combo deal there to save money on a reflector. I feel more comfortable shopping with HTG because I know they will back their products.
> 
> I dont see a 100 dollars of extra value in the digital ballasts. Spend 100 dollars extra for a small benefit or use the 100 dollars to buy something important to your grow. For the new grower who doesn't have thousands to spend (out of 100 growers, how many spend over 500 on first grow?) Wouldn't that 100 dollars buy you something more important? Like carbon filters or exhaust fans. How many people do you see starting with HPS and no carbon filter. This post wasn't directed at growers who have all the money in the world to spend on equipment, it was for the grower wanted to know what the best value is. If you have hundreds of extra dollars to spend on every item, go for it, if you want value, go Magnetic. Like I said before, its like buying a Prius vs a Yaris because of fuel efficiency to save money. You wont save money with a prius, but if driving it makes you happy, go for it. There is no value buying it, however.
> 
> ...


you keep trying to justify not spending the extra money on a digital by spending it elsewhere... some people need the stealth of the digitals. they produce less heat and they are quiet. If i had a magnetic one i would have to buy an exhaust fan as well. exhaust fans make a lot of noise, and draw attention. i think this needs to be taken into account as well. i also had a friend who had 3 magnatic ballast catch fire....i would say this is from the high amounts of heat they produce. he's got like 8-10 1000w lights going.


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## bajafox (Aug 26, 2010)

I was thinking the exact same thing as powerslide, it seems like you are trying really hard to justify the amount of money you saved.



Carthoris said:


> If you look at the other posts besides that one, you will notice that I keep saying 100 dollars more and that they cost 200.


I did read every post. The fact is you have way too many variables to really have an accurate answer. You started out by contemplating on purchasing a 600w digital ballast vs. a magnetic ballast and then conducted an experiment using 400w. 

You've stated everywhere between $90 to $150 for a magnetic ballast (this is for a 400w), and for a digital ballast you've been around $200 and even $300 in one post (see below). I don't understand what the big deal is between $150 magnetic ballast and a $205 Lumatek Digital w/shipping from greners.com, if you want to save $55 more power to you. I intend to use any income from my extra harvest right back into my grow anyway, saving a few dollars isn't really any of my concern.



Carthoris said:


> Baja, if you buy a digital ballast every 2 years vs a magnetic every 5 you are spending (*300* for 600 digital vs 150 for 600 magnetic) $750 vs $150. Do you really think a few hundred dollars of exhaust wouldn't make the magnetic a more reliable, cost efficient, and cooler alternative? 600 dollars could probably run a room air conditioner(in Florida) for 5 years to keep your grow 75. (4x4 room insulated, it only costs me 300 max in summer to keep 1500 sq feet at 70, if you live somewhere that has a winter you will save much more) You could run CO2, AC, and then some for the cost of the digital.


You are not going to convince me that a magnetic is better than a digital ballast. I have had both the 400w magnetic and 600w magnetic in my exact same setup. I paid nothing for the 400w hps with hood and bulb because it was donated by a friend and I paid less than $100 for the 600w hps with bulb + hood on craigslist from a guy who had to fire sell because he was leaving the state. 

I have had all 3 (400w magnetic, 600w magnetic and now 600w digital) in the EXACT same set up in the exact same environment over the last 4 months, there is absolutely no comparison, the Lumatek Digital ballast beats both my old HydroFarm magnetic ballast any minute of the day, usually between 7am and 7pm during my 12 hour daylight period.


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## dbkick (Aug 26, 2010)

*Carthoris, thats an american made welthink I bought for 2 bills. I bought it off craigslist new in the box from a local dude. He runs 16 of them and swears by them, so far I've not had one bit of trouble and like I said it runs real cool.
*


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## Spanishfly (Aug 26, 2010)

bajafox said:


> Nice edit,
> http://www.greners.com/ballasts/brand/lumatek/lumatek-electronic-ballast-hps-mh-600w-120v-240v-dimmable.html[/url]


And again.....


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## machnak (Aug 26, 2010)

I don't think an edit that came three minutes after the post would make much a difference. Especially when the post right after that was an hour and forty-one minutes later.

I'm currently running Magnetic and have no true sense of a difference between digital and magnetic. I can say with fact that my magnetic runs HOT and the thing is a big box. So just the size comparison alone sells me...along with the ability to change between 400W / 600W/ 1000W & super lumens! Again, I'm sold.

At the end of the day, as long as it turns my (your) light on I'd be happy.

Lumatek will be my source as soon as funds can provide it.


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## cowboylogic (Aug 26, 2010)

8 pages of the same, same. Justification. I actually think I am just going to dump all of my ballasts and go back to my poster of the sun. Works great.


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## Carthoris (Aug 26, 2010)

Magnetic = better value. If you bothered to read the OP, I gave credit where credit was due. There is always trade offs when you buy something. You can get value or you can get performance, usually the reason for buying one over the other is just how much performance gain can be had for how much money. That's going to be based on the individual user. Reliability and Value. They don't make magnetic ballasts better performing than digitals, they just make them a better value. This makes them better to me. Almost everything you buy, you can spend more and get a better product.

"You've stated everywhere between $90 to $150 for a magnetic ballast (this is for a 400w), and for a digital ballast you've been around $200 and even $300 in one post (see below). I don't understand what the big deal is between $150 magnetic ballast and a $205 Lumatek Digital w/shipping from greners.com, if you want to save $55 more power to you. I intend to use any income from my extra harvest right back into my grow anyway, saving a few dollars isn't really any of my concern."

Are you saying 90-150 and 200-300 is an unreasonable price range for the products at hand. Everyone isn't growing to sell, so they don't have income from it. It's not just saving money, its spending money you don't have to for minor gains.

"you keep trying to justify not spending the extra money on a digital by spending it elsewhere... some people need the stealth of the digitals. they produce less heat and they are quiet. If i had a magnetic one i would have to buy an exhaust fan as well. exhaust fans make a lot of noise, and draw attention. i think this needs to be taken into account as well. i also had a friend who had 3 magnetic ballast catch fire....i would say this is from the high amounts of heat they produce. he's got like 8-10 1000w lights going. "

Lots of people run exhaust fans in stealth operations, are you running CO2 then? The heat difference isn't that much and minor compared to the heat of the bulb. If you aren't running CO2, how can you not already have an exhaust and carbon filter? You can stand just outside the door to my grow and hear nothing, and that's with a stanley blower, 600 gph air pump, and 2 fans going. I run the heat into my AC intake, which cools it and redistributes it to the rest of the house.


Cowboy, that's how discussions go when there are 2 alternative viewpoints. Each side tries to justify their position.

In the end its what you are comfortable purchasing. If the extra 100 is worth it for you for the benefits of a digital, then its your money. Just don't make the decision based on the wrong reasons. You won't save money buying a digital, so buy it if the extra money you will spend is worth it for the performance you get.


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## LT1RX7 Drifter (Sep 2, 2010)

wow took me over a week to get my nextgen 600/400 watt ballast back to me, and upon its arrivale it had sticky ass nutrient solution dried on it and the ballast case was scratched to hell with a nice ass dent in it, it works, but looks like a piece of scrap metal, called them and told them what i got and "dwight" ask me does it work, i reply with dont give a shit sent me a brand new one or i will contact the BBB in cali and file a complaint with the fedral fair trade comission, since i told them i did not care about there replacment policy with a refurbished crap, with a s.n. that dates my ballast by over a year , im so done with nextgen ballast, hate to say it but i may step up to a "badass" from AN anyone else have issues with nextgen aka C.A.P. industries


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## Carthoris (Sep 3, 2010)

How many of you have had to send a magnetic ballast back?


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## Little Tommy (Sep 3, 2010)

Not I, but I completely rebuilt a used one for $47.00.


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## Carthoris (Sep 3, 2010)

Yea, its cheap to rebuild a magnetic. 

All of you who have had to return digital ballasts - are they are charging you shipping?

Im going to try to remember to stop and get a kill-a-watt at harbor freight tomorrow. Ill see how many watts my 400 and 600 are using. Anyone out there with a digital and a kill-a-watt(or any meter) that can tell us how many watts you are using to run it? 

Thanks.


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## bajafox (Sep 3, 2010)

It may be cheap to rebuild a magnetic but it's a good thing they last forever, that way you don't have to worry about ever having to rebuild them. 

My Lumatek digital ballast has a 3 year in store replacement, I can have a new one, as long as the store is open, within 15 to 20 minutes


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## Spanishfly (Sep 4, 2010)

Carthoris said:


> How many of you have had to send a magnetic ballast back?


Good point.


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## Carthoris (Sep 27, 2010)

Here they are talking about using a kill-a-watt on 600 and 1000w digital ballasts. 
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/248464-actual-power-usage-readings-dimmable.html
and
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/248669-review-actual-power-usage-readings.html

I have been testing mine with a kill-a-watt, and my 600w magnetic is using about 640 watts. This means compared to the good quality ballasts a magnetic is only using 10-20 more watts at the outside. For the mathematically challenged 10 watts an hour x 12 hours x 30 days is 3600 watts.

That is a whopping 30 cents or so a month where I live.

Ill use 50 cents a month just to be generous. 
50 cents x 12 months = 6 dollars a year. 

* Connecticut (lol, thats a horrible looking name) pays 20 cents a kwh, and they have the highest. So even at the highest cost in the nation it would take you 7 years to break even. Do you have any any grow equipment that you have kept 7 years? How many people here have even been growing 7 years?

(* calculated at $8.64 a year savings in electricity cost on a 600w ballast with a difference of 10w an hour. This could vary based on brands or malfunctioning equipment.)

There is no way you would ever save enough money to justify the purchase of a digital at current prices by using only efficiency as a a basis.

Lets look at heat, if its only using that small amount of energy to run the ballast, how much heat does 10 or 20 watts transfer into? Since we know generally the difference in watt usage between digital and magnetic, we can estimate it. We know that the straight conversion from Watts to Btu/hr is to multiply Watts by 3.4144. This would be for a heater with 100% efficiency, and I seriously doubt our ballasts are that efficient at generating heat. We will use 3.5 for simplicity. That is 35-70 btu/hr. 

To compare this to items you are familiar with:

Human body : 400 btu/hr at rest
60w Light bulb : 184 btu/hr

The light bulb puts out 2-5 x's the heat of the magnetic ballast. You put out 5 to 12 x's the heat of the ballast. (Standing in your grow for half an hour to an hour is the same as running the ballast all day)

Considering the 600w bulb is putting out massive amounts of heat either way, the difference is very minor at best, and with adequate cooling it wont matter which ballast you have.

Next to come:
How many more lumens do digitals really put out?

If anyone has numbers thats show efficiency feel free to post them. The only numbers I can find are general numbers from manufacturers, the issues with them is how do you calculate this? Are they running it for an hour? 2 hours? A year? I'm going to guess that being the manufacturer of the digital ballasts they are calculating it in the manner that makes them look the best. Calculating by 12 hours would give you accurate numbers to compare, however, calculating 1 hour would skew the numbers in digitals favor by a large margin. How many people here use a HPS lighting system for an hour a day?


Carthoris


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## NoDrama (Oct 3, 2010)

maxmax7777 said:


> Much has changed and much has been learned about digital ballasts. Frankly, the jury is still out on the digi vs mag ballast debate. #1 issue remains finding lamps able to run full life expectancy on digital ballasts. I have researched this and poured over the forums, the overwhelming amount of reports are of definate premature failure of most bulbs when run on digital ballasts.
> Sun Pulse claims to have the only bulbs made specifically for digital ballasts, however, the reports on forums are these bulbs fall short when it comes to comparative yeilds in side by side tests with hortilux.
> I am hearing possibly now the digilux bulb may be better suited for digital ballasts, however more on the ground reports are needed to conclude this thread. I want to believe digital ballasts are the way of the future, but I will need more confirmation from the industry and grower forums before the final vote. I will try to get back on this as my research pans out.
> Oh, and for the record, lumetec ballasts have one of the highest failure rates in the industry. Quantum has one of the best. Phantom, the digital ballast with all the bells and whistles also has a very impressive low return/failure rate. Around here all these ballasts sell for the same cost $375, so there is little reason to purchase lumitec.
> As said, each grower must find their own way, but lets not gripe on each other and puff our chest out, swearing our way is the only way....lets keep the spirit of HELPING each other alive. Just tell what you have learned and leave the boasting to alcoholics and rednecks.



You have spammed this exact same post 12 times over, you are a shill for Phantom. You post is full of misleading unfounded data and claims.

Lumatek has the Exact same 5 year Warranty as Phantom, exactly the same. BEST IN THE BUSINESS!!

Lumateks have the same failure rate as other Quality Digital Ballasts do, there is just more of them since they are the market leader and have been for quite some time and have been on the market for much much longer therefore there are a lot more lumatek out there that are years and years older than the newest Phantom that have only been on the market for a few years. Its kind of like saying you see alot more 1995 Chevys in the shop than the 2010 Ford models and therefore coming to the conclusion that Chevy is not as reliable a vehicle as the Ford.


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## Carthoris (Oct 4, 2010)

Drama, I think you might of replied to the wrong thread If I were going to buy a digital ballast, it would be Lumatek. Unless I found an insane deal on something else.


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## NoDrama (Oct 4, 2010)

Carthoris said:


> Drama, I think you might of replied to the wrong thread If I were going to buy a digital ballast, it would be Lumatek. Unless I found an insane deal on something else.


 No, the mods have removed the post, you'll notice I quote the deleted post, if you read it you will understand. It has nothing to do with the OP, and all to do with a spammer. Basically this maxmax777 guy is trying to sell his products, but is having a hard time because Lumatek products are the best sellers, so he comes on here, does a search for all ballast threads and then spams the same lies on all of them, if you look at all of his posts they are the same thing. Its obvious too, because many of the posts he replies to are 2 or 3 years old.


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## RRLBT420 (Oct 4, 2010)

FUCK MAGNETIC BALLASTS!!!!! I switched from a 400w magnetic to a 1000w digital ballast and guess what? it's noticably brighter, runs silent, and puts out more light with less heat than the 400w magnetic. you know why? CUZ MAGNETIC BALLASTS BLOW!!! i could hear my magnetic in the next room over, and it put out enough heat to keep my apartment comfortably warm during winter months. basically, you can keep your magnetic ballast, and then spend $300 on an a/c unit to keep it cool. or, you could buy a digital ballast, then say fuck the a/c because you now have more light, with less heat, and with the extra weight you harvest from that crop can buy you a co2 system for the next round. i love my spectrum digital, and they're cheap at www.ultralohydro.com. also as one more note i've had my digital for a year, and haven't had to have it repaired... i was used to visiting my hydro store every 4-5 months to replace some shit in my magnetic ballast. up front magnetic ballasts are cheap, but only because you don't know the problems you're buying with them.


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## reggaerican (Oct 4, 2010)

i totally like the new lumitek dimmable ballasts they are cool but the dimmable quantoms have fans built in that helps if your ballast is in grow room..


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## Carthoris (Oct 5, 2010)

"?FUCK MAGNETIC BALLASTS!!!!! I switched from a 400w magnetic to a 1000w digital ballast and guess what? it's noticably brighter, runs silent, and puts out more light with less heat than the 400w magnetic. you know why? CUZ MAGNETIC BALLASTS BLOW!!! i could hear my magnetic in the next room over, and it put out enough heat to keep my apartment comfortably warm during winter months. basically, you can keep your magnetic ballast, and then spend $300 on an a/c unit to keep it cool. or, you could buy a digital ballast, then say fuck the a/c because you now have more light, with less heat, and with the extra weight you harvest from that crop can buy you a co2 system for the next round. i love my spectrum digital, and they're cheap at www.ultralohydro.com. also as one more note i've had my digital for a year, and haven't had to have it repaired... i was used to visiting my hydro store every 4-5 months to replace some shit in my magnetic ballast. up front magnetic ballasts are cheap, but only because you don't know the problems you're buying with them."

There is so many things wrong with this post. 

1) FUCK MAGNETIC BALLASTS!!!!! I switched from a 400w magnetic to a 1000w digital ballast and guess what? it's noticably brighter, runs silent, and puts out more light with less heat than the 400w magnetic. you know why?

Yes, only a retard would believe that a 1000w hps bulb would not be brighter than a 400w hps bulb. Also, generally when you buy a new ballast, you buy a new bulb. You probably increased your light by 3x's.

2) FUCK MAGNETIC BALLASTS!!!!! I switched from a 400w magnetic to a 1000w digital ballast and guess what? it's noticably brighter, runs silent, and puts out more light with less heat than the 400w magnetic. you know why?

I also know why the 1000w digital puts out less heat than a 400w magnetic, its the theory of 'you've smoked yourself retarded'. The bulb of the 1000w puts out more heat than 400w ballast+bulb does altogether... There is no way around that.

3) i could hear my magnetic in the next room over, and it put out enough heat to keep my apartment comfortably warm during winter months.

You know, ballasts dont make noise, their enclosures do. If you bought a cheap enclosure, or its 20 years old, yes, it probably hums, but if you can hear it in the next room you probably have paper for walls and a really screwed up ballast.

3) i could hear my magnetic in the next room over, and it put out enough heat to keep my apartment comfortably warm during winter months.

400 watt ballasts, if they were old might use 50 watts more than a digital(None of mine waste that much, and I have 20+ lights). If 50 watts heats your entire apartment in the winter months, you probably live in an igloo cooler. The BULB might keep your place comfortable, but if the 400w did, the 1000w is going to do that more so. 

4) and then spend $300 on an a/c unit to keep it cool

Never been to wal-mart, craigslist, ebay? The amount of heat the ballasts puts out is minor, the light puts out most of the heat. The overall heat difference between magnetic and digital is very small. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are digital ballasts better than magnetic ballasts? Yes.
Are ferarri's better than mustangs? Yes.
Are ferarri's and digital ballasts worth the premium over magnetic? No.

Better and cost effective aren't the same thing.


Also of note, most of us can use heat for a few months of the year even in the warm states. In states where the winter is long, running your lights at night and heating your house with exhaust makes magnetic ballasts even more cost efficient. The short and long of it: It is never worth upgrading from magnetic to digital unless you are moving up in wattage. If you have a 400 and replace it with a 400 you just threw away money you could of used for something that matters, like a good exhaust. If you have proper exhaust, the temps arent going to change. If you are buying a light, you dont care about the costs, and the small amount of benefits from having a digital is worth it to you, go for it.


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## Carthoris (Oct 5, 2010)

NoDrama, I thought maybe you had 2-3 windows open at the same time and just replied to the wrong one.  Makes sense now.


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## bigv1976 (Oct 5, 2010)

Wow this quite a heated thread. I run a magnetic 400 watt ballast in a tent that is in a 4x10 room. Next to that room is another larger room. The wall seperating the 2 rooms is 1 piece of 1/2" sheetrock. My ballast is outside my tent in the smaller room. The temp is around 60 degrees in the larger room and in the room with all my grow equ. it is 66 degrees and I certainly do not hear my ballast humming. HMMM I am confused because I bought the cheapest 400 HPS I could find (Thanks HTG) and I am not experiencing any of the problems experienced above. Phew!!! Glad I didnt buy "quality" equipment.


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## Carthoris (Oct 5, 2010)

Reggae, the fans help cool the ballast, but they don't change how much heat they put out. One of the reasons people think magnetics make so much more heat is because digitals disperse their heat into the air. Look at any digital ballast, its a huge heat sink. The fact that they have fans on them at all means the manufacturer knows it would get hot enough to cause a problem if it didn't have one. Magnetic enclosures are just boxes. If you put a heat sink on a magnetic ballast, the temps would drop dramatically, due to moving the heat to the air. I bet if you installed a fan on a magnetic enclosure that it would drop it down to digital temps.

Science experiment:

Put 1 cup of hot water in a plate.
Put 1 cup of hot water in a cup.

Which one cools faster? They both have the same amount of heat in them, but one is pushing it off into the air faster. Do the same test, this time take a fan and blow it on the cup. How much did the situation change? Try a copper/aluminum pan instead of a plate.

It is much the same with ballasts. The heat sink on the digital ballasts is designed to take the heat from the ballast and spread it out over a bigger area more efficiently. If they did the same thing with a magnetic ballast, the result would be a magnetic ballast that doesn't get hot.


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## Carthoris (Oct 5, 2010)

Bigv, I think the quality is just the enclosure. Maybe a slight energy consumption, but it would be a minor difference though. General rule of thumb is all magnetic ballasts work well and do the same thing. Digitals have a large variance from manufacturer to manufacturer. Only a couple of my 20+ MH or HPS ballasts hummed when I tested them, and it only hummed because the case was loose. A few tightened screwed or a piece of card put between the pieces stopped the noise. You kind of expect a case to loosen up after 10 years.


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## Spanishfly (Oct 5, 2010)

Carthoris said:


> How many of you have had to send a magnetic ballast back?


Hate to have to pay carriage - mine weighs 12 pounds.


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## bigv1976 (Oct 5, 2010)

I see so many people splitting hairs on their light bill. It costs on average $.10 per kw/h for electricity in this country and that equates out to 10 cents an hour to run a 1000 watt light. People talk about a 10% variance like it is costing them so much it is worth spending an extra $200 on a light. I have figured that if I upgraded my light I would have to use it for over 8 years to recoup my money.


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## Carthoris (Oct 5, 2010)

Big, I started the thread, and thats pretty much what I said in the opening post. Which wasn't a condemnation of digital like most people took it, it just doesn't make cents at the moment to buy digital. If you are a professional grower, you probably have a good exhaust/your ballasts are outside the grow and it wont matter. My sentiments are if you are a new grower, you can use the money it would cost in startup to buy a proper exhaust system. The only people who will find benefit are those who don't care how much they spend and maybe growers who are in it just to squeeze the last bit of performance from a certain size room and also who don't care about cost. (Kind of like people who race million dollar enduro cars)


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## bigv1976 (Oct 5, 2010)

Yeah I am pretty sure it all comes down to buds. What do you get 4 buds? I dont care if you use a 23 w CFL or 30k watts of super man muthafuckin bus stretcher crypton lights. Do you know how to grow weed. I see a whole bunch of people on here with 5 lights eb and fox farm cyclone seperator RO plant fellatio machines and the fact of the matter is they cant grow dope. A good grower can grow with any reasonable setup and they will grow more for less. I think this site has turned into a place for experienced growers to bullshit and newbs to learn as much non-sense as possible and the post a couple "help whats wrong with my plant threads" and then someone who actually knows how to grow dope will coach them through and explain that a plant cant use a bottle of nutes a week and that 1000 watt MH does not need to be 2" over the tops of those 2 Lowryders and yes 100 degrees is too high and yes a fan would help and oh if you read some before spending $1000 just do do shit all wrong you would be better off. I see it more and more every day. Newbs answering other newbs questions and we wonder why threads about cutting all the fan leaves off and mag vs. diggy ballasts turn into 10 page rants where everybody gets there feelings hurt and the FDD comes and closes the thread down until some asshole starts another. Bottom line MJ is a plant that needs air, water food and light just like any other. Fox farms and Luma tek and Jardin is for the growers not the plants.


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## SmartGrower (Oct 20, 2010)

Check this site out and then try to act like digital ballast don't save you at least 50% on your monthly electric bill with about 25% more lumen output. 
http://www.accendoelectronics.com/GloGreen-Digital-HID-Ballast-Technology-Case-Studies-Applications.shtml
what is wrong with you kids! what, no one knows how to surf the web anymore??


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## Carthoris (Oct 23, 2010)

Smart, you realize that is just an ad from a company selling digital ballasts. What is wrong with you, don't you understand a manufacturer will say anything to sell you a product? Even producers of digital ballasts for grow applications don't say 50% less electricity and 25% more lumens. All you have to do is read the thread to know that. I gave straight proof and logic. I am also not trying to sell ballasts to you. I have no reason to lie.


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## hoagtech (Oct 23, 2010)

I agree. Its hard to argue with a piece of machine that weighs 40 lbs. magnetics are nice. but certain circumstances call for digital because they use less amperage when you need to maximize your energy usage


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## Spanishfly (Oct 24, 2010)

bigv1976 said:


> I see so many people splitting hairs on their light bill. It costs on average $.10 per kw/h for electricity in this country


You assume we are all in the same country??????


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## MrCanada (Nov 27, 2010)

RRLBT420 said:


> FUCK MAGNETIC BALLASTS!!!!! I switched from a 400w magnetic to a 1000w digital ballast and guess what? it's noticably brighter


Wow, you must be a burn out. A 1000W is noticably brighter then a 400W? Thank you Sherlock Holmes. You must be the brains of the operation then.

The rest of this isn't worth commenting on.


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## Carthoris (Dec 1, 2010)

braiiinnsssssss.


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## lowerarchy (Dec 2, 2010)

bigv1976 said:


> Yeah I am pretty sure it all comes down to buds. What do you get 4 buds? I dont care if you use a 23 w CFL or 30k watts of super man muthafuckin bus stretcher crypton lights. Do you know how to grow weed. I see a whole bunch of people on here with 5 lights eb and fox farm cyclone seperator RO plant fellatio machines and the fact of the matter is they cant grow dope. A good grower can grow with any reasonable setup and they will grow more for less. I think this site has turned into a place for experienced growers to bullshit and newbs to learn as much non-sense as possible and the post a couple "help whats wrong with my plant threads" and then someone who actually knows how to grow dope will coach them through and explain that a plant cant use a bottle of nutes a week and that 1000 watt MH does not need to be 2" over the tops of those 2 Lowryders and yes 100 degrees is too high and yes a fan would help and oh if you read some before spending $1000 just do do shit all wrong you would be better off. I see it more and more every day. Newbs answering other newbs questions and we wonder why threads about cutting all the fan leaves off and mag vs. diggy ballasts turn into 10 page rants where everybody gets there feelings hurt and the FDD comes and closes the thread down until some asshole starts another. Bottom line MJ is a plant that needs air, water food and light just like any other. Fox farms and Luma tek and Jardin is for the growers not the plants.


Quoted in full because this was the best post in this whole thread.


One other point that I didn't notice in this flamewar - in my area at least you can buy magnetic ballasts used for half-price from any of the million people who tried to grow weed and discovered it wasn't for them. I bought six 1kw HPS for like 40 bucks each... no cases, work fine, fuck me I'm ordering so much pizza and drinking so much beer and staying up alllll night with my savings.


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## GRiMCreeper (Dec 2, 2010)

i have been using (by using i mean i have only tried indoors twice now in past couple years lol) a 400w hps digital ballast from HIDHut...on my first grow, my ballast crapped out 4 weeks into flowering...contacted the fine folks at hidhut and returned the old one and received a new one and it worked fine..once i was finished, the set up went back into the box for almost 2 years....moved out of old place and set up shop in the garage of my new place...well in a corner i built a small room for it...after all..its only 1 400watter lol...so here i am couple weeks from flowering, and this ballast craps out yesterday morning. Now i was all convinced that digital was the way to go (convinced through my own ignorance), mostly because i liked the fact that i could wire it 240volts or 120...either way...kind of a nice feature i thought...so about 2 weeks ago i buy a 240 volt time clock which is still in the box as i have not gotten around to changing it over just yet....and thankfully so as im without a lighting set up...well except for my shitty 150w hps flood light...which is not hitting on shit for light lol...my only back up is about 50 miles away in my old shed...i have another 400w hps except she wasnt made for grow rooms as much as she was for high bay ceilings...im tempted to grab it and bolt it to the ceiling but the heat scares me a bit...bout ready to throw in the towel


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## CaptainCAVEMAN (Dec 2, 2010)

I have 2k of light in flower room and I use the eye-hortilux dual arc bulbs. I have one magnectic ballast and one digital side by side. Just by judging the buds I'd have to say the digital must be brighter-need a lumen meter but buds are bigger and denser. Yes I put 2 new bulbs at the same time so I know that wasn't the difference. Can't comment on longevity as I've only had them 1.5 years.


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## Vices (Dec 2, 2010)

Whaa did OP just say magnetic ballasts are more reliable than digital? 
/thread
Didn't read past there, seems like a bunch of hocuspocus.. 100 dollar difference? I can get a full digital 600w setup on ebay for $190. 
There is no possibility you could get a magnetic setup for ~90 dollars. That is the first flaw.

Secondly, look who makes magnetic ballasts. MOST companies have done away with magnetic all together. Digital will ALWAYS be cheaper to manufacture than analog and will almost ALWAYS have better reliability as there are no moving parts. 

This isn't about buying the newest hardware, it is recognizing there is a change and adapting to that change to better suit your lifestyle. I really hope your choice was digital and did not pursuade anyone otherwise.

EDIT: Checked ebay, the few magnetic ballasts were selling at the same if not HIGHER price points than the digitals.


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## Carthoris (Dec 13, 2010)

First, I was upgrading from a 400w magnetic. My ballast cost me 60 dollars shipped and new. 30+30 shipping. 400w ballast, bulb, and wing are around 100 dollars new for magnetic. Thus, the 100 dollars difference for digital. 

Second, digitals are not as reliable as magnetics. That is a fact. Also, the fact that you think there are moving parts in a magnetic ballast puts you solidly into the 'this is what I heard, and I repeat it, but don't know anything about it personally' crowd. If digital ballasts are cheaper to manufacture why are magnetic ballasts cheaper to purchase? 

I went with magnetic ballast, I am on 9 months trouble free. My ballast makes no noise, and it doesn't get more than slightly warm. I do not regret it, and honestly the only issue is that it leaves lines in pictures when Im taking pictures of my girls. 

If you don't know how to use ebay, thats your fault, noone elses. Quite simply hundreds of people agreed with me on the thread.


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## Carthoris (Dec 13, 2010)

Magnetics are usually multitap ballasts which means with a simple cord change you can make them 110, 220, all the way up to 3phase.


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## Carthoris (Dec 13, 2010)

lowerarchy said:


> Quoted in full because this was the best post in this whole thread.
> 
> 
> One other point that I didn't notice in this flamewar - in my area at least you can buy magnetic ballasts used for half-price from any of the million people who tried to grow weed and discovered it wasn't for them. I bought six 1kw HPS for like 40 bucks each... no cases, work fine, fuck me I'm ordering so much pizza and drinking so much beer and staying up alllll night with my savings.


I actually got an entire truckload of 400w warehouse lights for free off of craigslist (30-40 of them) That got me really into lights because there was hps, mh, and others in the load, as well as hps and mh conversion bulbs I got for free. 

The entire thread started with something I wrote for myself as I was itemizing strengths and weakness's. I didn't write it for the forums. I posted it because I figured newbies would appreciate information in a review type setting. Everyone doesn't have 1000 to spend on equipment for first grow. I might of spent 150 altogether on my first, it is a hobby for me, not a lifestyle. If I were growing to bank 10k a month, I might feel different. Here is the grow I set up after writing this for myself. Note the big red ballast. 

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/364226-my-3rd-grow-room-setup.html


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## bird mcbride (Dec 13, 2010)

One evening I decided that I was going to make the best rectifier ever built with a perfect DC output. While I was at it I smoked several large gaggers and started changing the circuit and adding parts as I saw fit. When I was all done I plugged it into the wall and tested for DC. 0vdc!?!? This is impossible I thought, there has to be at least 150vdc happening. I almost touched the wire and I thought, oh better not and tested for ac. 450vac!?!? That's impossible I thought!? How can I have ac by sending the ac through a rectifier? Must be the weed so I went to bed. I woke up the next morning thinking that must have been a dream but sure enough it was for real. Digital ballasts use a series of diodes and capacitor to step up the voltage unlike magnetic ballasts that rely on induction and windings of wire to step up the voltage. Of course digi's are more energy efficient because there isn't any primary to feed and the circuit offers very little resistance. Magnetic ballasts short the circuit so electrons are bumped off the primary and accelerated by the secondary coil.


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