# RIU, You chose it, I'm growing it. Fucking Incredible!



## laserbrn (Nov 3, 2009)

The seeds have been ordered through kindseed.com. I read mixed reviews about this seedbank, but it's nearly impossible to get FI shipped to the US any other way. If this doesn't work out, I'll have to try something else. I promised to practice due diligence in finding these seeds and I will do just that. I purchased these seeds using my credit card so if there's a problem and I can always file a complaint with my CC company.

For those of you who don't already know, I am a California Prop 215 patient. I did not smoke marijuana before my doctor advised me to try it.

I'm not afraid of ordering seeds or conducting my actions above board. I keep my grows to the proper number of legal plants in a reasonably sized garden inside my residence. I DO NOT sell marijuana. I am very addimant about this fact in that I will not even sell my good friends their bud. 

Here's what we are looking at.

Strain - Fucking Incredible by Vancouver Island Seed Company

Lights - 600w HPS - Air cooled (flower) T5-HO for Veg.

Space - 4x4x7.5 Grow Tent

Medium - Rockwool/Hydroton on Ebb & Flow trays.

Nutrients - Advanced Nutrients Sensi 2 part. - Bud Blood - Big Bud - Overdrive


I don't know what other information is pertinent at this time, I just wanted to make sure I posted on the day that the seed order went in so that we can record the length of time to receive the seeds as part of the journal.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank the members of RIU for their input in the selection of this strain. For those that are just joining us I selected this strain by having RIU members select 20 strains they would like to see grown. From that list I eliminated 10 strains myself. I then turned it back over to the users who ultimately selected Fucking Incredible.

Hopefully we get fast delivery of the seeds, I'm going to start cleaning up the veg room and preparing it today.


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## SpruceZeus (Nov 3, 2009)

Subscribed.

Sounds like you've been doing your homework. I look foward to seeing how things go.


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## howhighru (Nov 3, 2009)

ur really on the awesome track of growin some dank ass bud good luck to ya


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## warisnottheanswer (Nov 5, 2009)

ooh yea im ready for ya new grow my dude! i didnt realize from your last grow that we had pretty much the same setup but i was in soil for my other grows and i used iguana juice instead of sensi lol i wanted to get FI but i couldnt find it and was too nervous to order from kindseed (ive only used attitude and gypsy nirvana) so i hope it turns out good for u!


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## terrorizer805 (Nov 5, 2009)

Nice choice, i've always drooled over fucking incredible pics, the buds just look delicious. I hope it goes through for you if so I will be ordering some aswell, can't wait to see em' start.


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## laserbrn (Nov 5, 2009)

terrorizer805 said:


> Nice choice, i've always drooled over fucking incredible pics, the buds just look delicious. I hope it goes through for you if so I will be ordering some aswell, can't wait to see em' start.


 
Well, I accidentally forgot some information in my address when I ordered! I emailed them and they responded and said they updated the order with the right info. I made contact with someone, that's a start!

For some reason I have faith the beans are going to show up. Just a gut feeling.


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## warisnottheanswer (Nov 5, 2009)

i believe too my dude!


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## terrorizer805 (Nov 5, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Well, I accidentally forgot some information in my address when I ordered! I emailed them and they responded and said they updated the order with the right info. I made contact with someone, that's a start!
> 
> For some reason I have faith the beans are going to show up. Just a gut feeling.


Yea you should be fine, you already spoke with them that's a good sign.


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## MidnightBaker (Nov 9, 2009)

Subscribed.

F'ing incredible....


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## Boneman (Nov 9, 2009)

*I'm in *


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## SmokeyMcChokey (Nov 9, 2009)

yay subscribed. I always wanted to see a fucking incredible journal  (pun intended)... hahaha cant wait!!


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## laserbrn (Nov 9, 2009)

SmokeyMcChokey said:


> yay subscribed. I always wanted to see a fucking incredible journal  (pun intended)... hahaha cant wait!!


I can't either...but I am. Patiently and hopefully awaiting the arrival of my seeds. Assuming they hadn't sent the seeds when they said they updated my order the seeds couldn't have shipped until at least last Wed. so let's say they were even slower than that about it and it was more like Thurs we've got plenty more waiting to do before I get really concerned about it.


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## BooMeR242 (Nov 11, 2009)

glad i got in on time for once. ready to see this grow kik off. 
+scribed +rep for last grow thread i just finished haha


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## mewzzekmaker (Nov 12, 2009)

wuddup laser. i jus spent last night reading all your shit. damn. great shit. ive acquired so much from your journal jus wanna say thanks. im jus beginning myself, would love to get your opinion on some things. thanks and im spreadin the word to those who want it.


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## laserbrn (Nov 12, 2009)

mewzzekmaker said:


> wuddup laser. i jus spent last night reading all your shit. damn. great shit. ive acquired so much from your journal jus wanna say thanks. im jus beginning myself, would love to get your opinion on some things. thanks and im spreadin the word to those who want it.


Thanks, I'm glad that I could spread the knowledge a bit. I'm hoping these beans show up here by the weekend so we can get the show on the road here! I'm at 5 weeks with that White Widow and need to get something vegging! I'm going to hold out as long as I can, I don't grow commercially so I can afford to wait a little while. Hopefully kindseed.com isn't a complete ripoff, 'cause @ $140 for the beans it was already a bit of a rook.


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## themoose (Nov 12, 2009)

I'm definitley on board.


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## mixin (Nov 12, 2009)

cant wait to see more


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## fillabong420 (Nov 12, 2009)

Dam laser your Widow looks awesome! Can't wait to see the FI, love the set up as well 

Subscribed!


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## smokingrubber (Nov 13, 2009)

Just read your entire WW journal. SWEET! Subscribed here.

I am starting my tent grow also, so I'm looking for a few pointers. If it turns out as good as yours I'll be plenty satisfied. It's great that you've done the screen grow also, because I have contemplated that road. You didn't like it so much and I will take your advise. 

My concern is humidity. My other grow (friend's house) has been plauged by the occasional mold. It was BAD on the very first run, but we got an enclosed hood and that really helped the temperature a ton. The next two grows have still shown small spots of mold. Not entire crop-killing fungus amongus . . . but a few of the big buds had a little gray. So how have you avoided this problem? Have you, or are you going to use Co2? Where would you put a dehumidifier in a small tent? I live a mile from the beach, so maybe that has something to do with my humidity problems.

This is the first grow at MY house and I want to do it right - start to finish. How many plants would you put in a 4'9 x 4'9 tent? (not scrog) I've got a 12 pot ebb-n-gro system that's expandable. I was thinking about bumping it up to 16 pots? After seeing your first grow though, now I wonder if 12 is too much. 

Hope you're feeling well. Did you get that RO system up yet?

PS. I wish the 49ers could play against Jay Cutler every week!


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## laserbrn (Nov 13, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Just read your entire WW journal. SWEET! Subscribed here.
> 
> I am starting my tent grow also, so I'm looking for a few pointers. If it turns out as good as yours I'll be plenty satisfied. It's great that you've done the screen grow also, because I have contemplated that road. You didn't like it so much and I will take your advise.
> 
> ...


Are you going to run a 1000w in that tent? I have a friend runs a 5x5 w/ a 1000w and he's about a block from the beach. Lost his first crop to mold so I know your pain. Solved it since with a dehumidifier, there was no way around it. Either a dehumidifier or an AC, but the temps near him didn't necessitate an A/C so dehumidifier made more sense. 

I would get rid of the buds that have the mold already and start getting that humidity down, he'll lose the whole thing.

I will not be running another SCROG and I'll be running about 8 plants from now on in each of my 4x4's with 600w's. Not to say that the SCROG won't yield more, I just don't enjoy it as much.


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## smokingrubber (Nov 13, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Are you going to run a 1000w in that tent? I have a friend runs a 5x5 w/ a 1000w and he's about a block from the beach. Lost his first crop to mold so I know your pain. Solved it since with a dehumidifier, there was no way around it. Either a dehumidifier or an AC, but the temps near him didn't necessitate an A/C so dehumidifier made more sense.
> 
> I would get rid of the buds that have the mold already and start getting that humidity down, he'll lose the whole thing.
> 
> I will not be running another SCROG and I'll be running about 8 plants from now on in each of my 4x4's with 600w's. Not to say that the SCROG won't yield more, I just don't enjoy it as much.


Yeah, it's all about the "shock and awe" of donkey-dicks everywhere! Speaking of dd's, how many plants were in your WW grow, and what was the final yield?

I've already got the 1000w . . . but I've also got a 600w. I was going to use the 1000 because it's switchable between hps/mh. I'll run the mh while it's vegging and switch it when I go 12/12.

Since you're trimming off all the undergrowth, why not add more plants? Do you feel like the room is stuffed with 8 or could you squeeze in 12?

What kind of environmental controls do you have set up? Co2?


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## laserbrn (Nov 13, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Yeah, it's all about the "shock and awe" of donkey-dicks everywhere! Speaking of dd's, how many plants were in your WW grow, and what was the final yield?
> 
> I've already got the 1000w . . . but I've also got a 600w. I was going to use the 1000 because it's switchable between hps/mh. I'll run the mh while it's vegging and switch it when I go 12/12.
> 
> ...


I'd be more than happy to share what I know and to help you out, but let's take it to the WW thread. These guys are patiently waiting (as am I) for the FI to get here and to get this journal going. If you have questions about my previous stuff lets talk about it in the previous threads. Not trying to be a dick, just know there's a lot of people that are going to get updates and hope it's because this journal's underway.


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## Jerry Garcia (Nov 13, 2009)

I voted for the Fucking Incredible, so I should subscribe to the thread, right?

Looking forward to it


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## laserbrn (Nov 14, 2009)

Alright guys. I have some good news. I have to tip my hat so far to kindseed.com. The beans showed up today, no fuss no muss, no problems. I was able to email them, and call them. The beans showed up without any problems, I have to give them a thumbs up thus far. Obviously I haven't grown out the beans yet to speak to their authenticity, but the endorsement on the VISC website of kindseed.com as a distributor leads me to believe it's all good.

So, I'm soaking up some rockwool cubes, they sent me 12 seeds so I'll probably go ahead and germ them all up. I'll grown them out large enough to get clones, sex them while my other girls are finishing up in the flowering tent and we'll get our first batch in flower in about 40 days I would estimate.

I'm fuckin' excited, I'm glad I had you guys choose this for me.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 14, 2009)

Subbed.

Nice setup, kid.


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## terrorizer805 (Nov 14, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Alright guys. I have some good news. I have to tip my hat so far to kindseed.com. The beans showed up today, no fuss no muss, no problems. I was able to email them, and call them. The beans showed up without any problems, I have to give them a thumbs up thus far. Obviously I haven't grown out the beans yet to speak to their authenticity, but the endorsement on the VISC website of kindseed.com as a distributor leads me to believe it's all good.
> 
> So, I'm soaking up some rockwool cubes, they sent me 12 seeds so I'll probably go ahead and germ them all up. I'll grown them out large enough to get clones, sex them while my other girls are finishing up in the flowering tent and we'll get our first batch in flower in about 40 days I would estimate.
> 
> I'm fuckin' excited, I'm glad I had you guys choose this for me.


That's fucking great, i'm excited aswell.


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## laserbrn (Nov 14, 2009)

terrorizer805 said:


> That's fucking great, i'm excited aswell.


I actually started 8. Just in case something happens. I'll at least have 4 to fall back on again, but I doubt that anything will happen. If there's a security risk and I have to shut it down though I'll be able to get started again quickly so I'll leave them be. Well, as soon as I get sprouts I"ll post pictures and we can all watch the progress. 

Veg:
360w 6 Lamp T5HO 
2x4 Ebb & Flow
4x4 Rockwool Cubes. 
Veg Room is 8x4 approx.
4" 350+ cfm fan for exhaust


Sensi Grow A & B
Hygrozyme

Flower:
600w HPS 
3x3 Ebb & Flow 
8" Netpot filled with hydroton
4x4" Grow Tent
Can - 66 Filter w/ 365CFM 6" Inline Fan
Sensi Bloom A&B 
Big Bud
Overdrive

Just a quick recap as this journal is now ACTUALLY underway.


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## warisnottheanswer (Nov 15, 2009)

It has begun!! Yeaaaaah!


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## mewzzekmaker (Nov 16, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> I actually started 8. Just in case something happens. I'll at least have 4 to fall back on again, but I doubt that anything will happen. If there's a security risk and I have to shut it down though I'll be able to get started again quickly so I'll leave them be. Well, as soon as I get sprouts I"ll post pictures and we can all watch the progress.
> 
> Veg:
> 360w 6 Lamp T5HO
> ...


is this pretty much the same setup as the WW grow? including nutes?


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## laserbrn (Nov 16, 2009)

mewzzekmaker said:


> is this pretty much the same setup as the WW grow? including nutes?


Yes it is. It will be the same as the first WW grow as I won't be using the SCROG this time. I'll just let them grow and fill the room "the old fashioned way" sorta speak.


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## doitinthewoods (Nov 16, 2009)

Nice,.. can't wait to see how this goes. One of my suggestion wins, and my vote mattered. When does this every happen? Subscribed.


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## Fditty00 (Nov 16, 2009)

And off we go.... Subscribed!!!


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## laserbrn (Nov 16, 2009)

I checked in on them this morning and nothing yet. But that's what 24 hours? I'm such a stoner I can't even remember when I put the beans in the cubes. My room is a little on the cold side at night so I'm going to get the veg area all cleaned out today and get everything setup. It's all just a mess as all I did when I shut it down was empty the res and throw out was alive in there. Room needs to be cleaned and sanitized, made ready. I'll try to get through all of that today and get the light hung up so I can turn it on to keep that room at a better temperature for the little seedlings.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 16, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Yes it is. It will be the same as the first WW grow as I won't be using the SCROG this time. I'll just let them grow and fill the room &quot;the old fashioned way&quot; sorta speak.


 Laser, any reason you use a 3x3 tray in a 4x4 tent? Is it because you feel that the 600 doesn't quite cover 4x4 like you'd like?


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## jordisgarden (Nov 16, 2009)

isnt fi the same as the gods gift strain?


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## laserbrn (Nov 16, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Laser, any reason you use a 3x3 tray in a 4x4 tent? Is it because you feel that the 600 doesn't quite cover 4x4 like you'd like?


I had the 3x3 tray before the 4x4 tent. And having a little extra room is nice. If I put a 4x4 tray it would be a real bitch getting it in and out of there at times. The 3x3 tray will hold plants with a 4x4 canopy with no problem. I am having trouble covering the space with a 600w light though. It's so damn cold right now at night I'm considering buying a 1000w light setup. I already know I'm going to add a flowering tent and so I may as well upgrade the lighting for this FI grow and use this 600w for the new tent. Shit, I can talk myself into anything.


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## laserbrn (Nov 16, 2009)

jordisgarden said:


> isnt fi the same as the gods gift strain?


No, as far as I know God's Gift is a clone only that is an OG Kush x GDP cross. FI is claimed to be a cross of some old 90's indica strains that took this long to stabilize and created this bomb ass strain from Vancouver Island Seed Company.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 16, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> I had the 3x3 tray before the 4x4 tent. And having a little extra room is nice. If I put a 4x4 tray it would be a real bitch getting it in and out of there at times. The 3x3 tray will hold plants with a 4x4 canopy with no problem. I am having trouble covering the space with a 600w light though. It's so damn cold right now at night I'm considering buying a 1000w light setup. I already know I'm going to add a flowering tent and so I may as well upgrade the lighting for this FI grow and use this 600w for the new tent. Shit, I can talk myself into anything.


 Thanks much for the reply - after I typed it I realized that you're planning on growing 4ish larger plants and don't need the tray footprint that a smaller plant guy (like me) would need. Weird that you're having trouble covering a 3x3 with a 6 though, no? Never used a 6 before (every other light size and style, but no 6), but I'd have thought that would cover a 3x3 easily.


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## 323cheezy (Nov 16, 2009)

Its about time ...it only took u three "what strain should i pick threads"...lolIm subscribed..


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## laserbrn (Nov 16, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Thanks much for the reply - after I typed it I realized that you're planning on growing 4ish larger plants and don't need the tray footprint that a smaller plant guy (like me) would need. Weird that you're having trouble covering a 3x3 with a 6 though, no? Never used a 6 before (every other light size and style, but no 6), but I'd have thought that would cover a 3x3 easily.


It does cover the 3x3 fairly well, it's just the outside edges that don't seem to get the light. But you know, I say that and the plant in the farthest corner is the biggest. of course that's because I couldn't reach the damn thing way back there to really wind it through the screen. I thought the vertical growth would actually help it out in getting more light anyway (seems to be working). The 600 does cover the whole space, I just think a larger reflector with a 1000w would be more ideal. A lot of it has to do with the reflector and this isn't the right one for this space. It's freakin' PERFECT for a 3x3 though. 

I'll still use it over a 3x3 in one of my tents, I won't let it go to waste and I'll do a lot of side by side grows where I'll bump it back down. My goal is to have 2 tents side by side both running hydro. To give you an idea of what I've got going on...it's a spare bedroom in my home and It has a 4x8 walk in closet. I use the 4x8 walk in closet as my veg area. The bedroom itself is to have the following.

Equipment List:
400w Ballast and Lamp - x2 (Summertime configuration)
600w Ballast and Lamp - x2 (Spring configuration)
1000w Ballast and Lamp - x2 (Winter configuration)


I don't run an A/C as it drives up the cost of my meds too much. So far I have the 2x 400w's and 1 600w. My next purchase will be one 1000w as we enter winter here. The another 1000w, then the final 600w as spring comes around and it gets a little warmer. Should work out pretty well. I can buy the damn equipment for the cost of the electricity saved by not using AC. The new Tiered usage system is a REAL bitch.

Both flowering tents as stated will be the same with 3x3 trays and 27 gallon reservoirs. I will likely purchase another nutri-dip as I run these out of the front of the tent so that I can see my PH, PPM, and Res. Temp without opening the tent. I also use the $30 remote Thermometers from Lowes.


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## laserbrn (Nov 16, 2009)

323cheezy said:


> Its about time ...it only took u three &quot;what strain should i pick threads&quot;...lolIm subscribed..


They weren't "What strain should I pick" threads. It was voted on using polls by the members and THEY chose it. It was selected over the course of 3 days and I ordered and got the beans in 8 days so I don't see how it's "about time" either. But, thanks for joining in.


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## laserbrn (Nov 17, 2009)

I don't have much to share, the seeds look like they have germinated and should sprout in the next couple of days. I open up one of the holes on the top of the rockwool a little bit (just split it apart) and I can see the white from the taproot so it looks like it just split the seed last night. 

I got the veg room all cleaned out, I didn't use mylar this time as it's a PITA and I'm not that into it for this vegging part.

Things have gotten a bit cold here in the past couple of days so I put the rockwool cubes in a clone tray and put the dome on. I've turned everything on (all fans and lights) and I'm testing the temps. Everything is juuuuuuust fine. This is keeping the tray much warmer and should speed germination. I believe it's why they actually cracked last night. It's just been too damn cold. I had to put the dome over the tray because if I don't turn on the oscillating fan the heat accumulates a bit under my T5's, if I leave the cubes out and let the fan blow over them 1x1 rockwool cubes will dry out in about 4 hours. So I have the dome to block the wind and I have the vents wide open on them. I've used this in the past and it works pretty well. The seedlings never seem to mind the extra humidity one bit.

This picture really does a good job of illustrating how SIMPLE my setup is. My flower setup is very similar except the tray is 3x3 and the reservoir is about 10 gallons larger. But these setups are so damn simple I can't imagine ever changing to something else again.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 17, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> I don't have much to share, the seeds look like they have germinated and should sprout in the next couple of days. I open up one of the holes on the top of the rockwool a little bit (just split it apart) and I can see the white from the taproot so it looks like it just split the seed last night.
> 
> I got the veg room all cleaned out, I didn't use mylar this time as it's a PITA and I'm not that into it for this vegging part.
> 
> ...


Cosign on that; I'm getting rid of all my DWC/bubbler horseshit and changing everything to E&F, even my cloner.

It's just too easy for words - I love my plants, but I don't have the time to be checking pH/water levels/PPMs in 20 buckets everyday.


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## smokingrubber (Nov 17, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Things have gotten a bit cold here in the past couple of days so I put the rockwool cubes in a clone tray and put the dome on. I've turned everything on (all fans and lights) and I'm testing the temps. Everything is juuuuuuust fine. This is keeping the tray much warmer and should speed germination. I believe it's why they actually cracked last night. It's just been too damn cold. I had to put the dome over the tray because if I don't turn on the oscillating fan the heat accumulates a bit under my T5's, if I leave the cubes out and let the fan blow over them 1x1 rockwool cubes will dry out in about 4 hours. So I have the dome to block the wind and I have the vents wide open on them. I've used this in the past and it works pretty well. The seedlings never seem to mind the extra humidity one bit.


A few questions: How long will you leave them under the dome? Do you use a heating pad? How many bulbs are in the T5? 2ft? 24hr light or 18hr? Thanks.

I germinated mine last week. I'm a little ahead of you but I plan to start vegging whenever you do. I was going to start a journal yesterday, but RIU was having issues. Not much excitement to report when they're only 2 inches tall.


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## laserbrn (Nov 17, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> A few questions: How long will you leave them under the dome? Do you use a heating pad? How many bulbs are in the T5? 2ft? 24hr light or 18hr? Thanks.
> 
> I germinated mine last week. I'm a little ahead of you but I plan to start vegging whenever you do. I was going to start a journal yesterday, but RIU was having issues. Not much excitement to report when they're only 2 inches tall.


I do not use a heating pad. That's why I had to put them under the light in the warmer room. I used to use a heating pad and germinate the seeds in the dark, but sometimes they would sprout an shoot up in the dark further than I really wanted them to. So I've started doing it this way and on the last go around I still had 100% germination so I'm sticking with it.

The dome will only be on them until all of them sprout. Once they sprout I usually leave the dome on until the taproot has hit the bottom of the cube. Once I have roots out of the bottom of the 1x1 cube I'll put them into the 4x4 cubes. I'll set up the pumps and timers and have them watering once a day from there out. I will generally hand water for a couple of days to let the roots get down into the bigger cube as the water level isn't very high and I really don't want to let those tender seedlings dry out. Here's the problem with this....hand watering rockwool cubes in the beginning will ALWAYS mean algae and/or mold later so be on the ready with rockwool cube covers. Don't skip out on the covers in the early stages if you water from the top, it's a bitch later on. 

Lights will be on 18/6 throughout all of veg. I don't really run a 24/0 schedule at all anymore. Used to, but after a few grows I decided it was much more worthwhile to allow my equipment to "rest". It also gives me the ability to manage temperatures using time of day. The warmest 6 hours of the day are my lights off period. Not really a concern in the winter, but part of the routine now.

My lamp is a 4' 6 bulb T5HO. I love this thing and the only way I would ever trade is to use an 8 bulb T5HO. The wide spread of the light allows me to cover a 2x4 tray perfectly which is enough room for me to veg plenty of plants in preparation for flower.


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## thedude121212 (Nov 18, 2009)

Hey wats up man i can't wait til these hoes sprout and take off. I feel like a noob though cuz i've never even heard of this strain until 2day. Cum check me out man If u get a chance I could Really use sum insight from sumone that has expierience with SOG since i'm thinking of doing this with my current grow.


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## laserbrn (Nov 18, 2009)

Alright, it's been 4 days since I put the beans into the cubes to germinate. I believe the cold slowed things down a little, but really 4 days isn't too bad to start gettin sprouts.

So far it looks like at least 6 or 7 of these are going to come up without any problems. I'm actually fairly certain I'll get all 8 as I've always had a 100% germination rate using this method.

They aren't much yet, but here they are. Our first real glimpse at this round of "Fucking Incredible".


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## Bob Smith (Nov 19, 2009)

Slow and steady wins the race, my man


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## Jerry Garcia (Nov 19, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Alright, it's been 4 days since I put the beans into the cubes to germinate. I believe the cold slowed things down a little, but really 4 days isn't too bad to start gettin sprouts.
> 
> So far it looks like at least 6 or 7 of these are going to come up without any problems. I'm actually fairly certain I'll get all 8 as I've always had a 100% germination rate using this method.
> 
> They aren't much yet, but here they are. Our first real glimpse at this round of "Fucking Incredible".


Laser, I just wanted to clarify something regarding your germination...you don't use any weird pre-germination techniques right? No paper towels, no soaking, just dropping a fresh seed into your rockwool (or other medium), water, and wait right?


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## laserbrn (Nov 19, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Laser, I just wanted to clarify something regarding your germination...you don't use any weird pre-germination techniques right? No paper towels, no soaking, just dropping a fresh seed into your rockwool (or other medium), water, and wait right?


You got it. Straight into the medium (in this case rockwool). No paper towels, no dunking in water or any other unnecessary steps. Never had a seed not germinate. ALL of them will come up. Even if one doesn't, it's now gotta be 1 out of 50 or 60 seeds. It's probably more than that, I just don't feel like counting. I've germinated seeds and grown little plants so many times it's deranged. Sometimes I do it even knowing I have no prayer of finishing the plants (obviously bagseeds). I've had them growing in my kitchen before in my AeroGarden right out in the open. I don't flower them there, I just think they look sick as shit as plants in veg.

But through all my seeds, 100% germination.


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## grodrowithme (Nov 21, 2009)

hell yea been waitin on this glad i seen the link today i been busy as shit with mine getting close to done. cant wait to see this and try kindseed.com i hope there as good and as reliable as attitude


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## Dr.RR (Nov 21, 2009)

Oh shit here we go!!! Lol, glad this strain was picked!


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## laserbrn (Nov 21, 2009)

Dr.RR said:


> Oh shit here we go!!! Lol, glad this strain was picked!


 
6 of 8 are fully out and the last two are germinated and I can see that the seed is cracked, but they just aren't off to a vigorous start. Hopefully not a sign of their future, but I believe they will come along nonetheless.

I have the 4x4 rockwool cubes soaking now and I will transplant the seedlings and setup the watering system to water once a day for 30 minutes.


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## laserbrn (Nov 23, 2009)

My patience ran dry. I decided to rip open the rockwool cubes of the two that didn't sprout and see what the deal is. Both of the seeds DID germinate and did crack and had a taproot, they just weren't going anywhere.

I did receive 12 beans instead of 10 and I did notice that 2 of them were really small. My guess...these were those two beans.

I planted the remaining four and put them all in 4x4 rockwool cubes. The 6 sprouts look good and healthy. I only have 2 (out of 6) of my lamps on right now as I don't really need to cover a lot of space. I have the lamp down at about 16" or so. Should be fine with just the two lamps turned on. If they start to stretch or act funny though I'll raise it to 20" and put it on full blast. Just didn't see the need to waste all of the energy.

Filled the reservoir last night and gave them their first flood this morning. Everything is in place and seems to be working properly. The timer is set to flood once/day for 30 minutes. The only thing different about this grow than my others is that this will be my first grow -start to finish with tap water. My tap water is nasty too, about 540ppm and 8.0+ ph. 

I used it for my current flowering run, but I've never used it on seedlings. I have to do it this way though, and it pretty much HAS to work. I can't keep lugging water (it's killing me) and I can't install an RO here easily. I'll likely move in May and I'll keep in mind that I need somewhere that it's easy to hook up an RO!


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## Bob Smith (Nov 23, 2009)

A couple of things - if you have a hose, the filter I have (Stealth) hooks up right to it, without having to do any real "permanent" changes to water lines - just screw it on the hose and you're basically done.

Also, why do you flood for 30 minutes? I'm new to this whole E&F game, but I thought you wanted to flood for as short as possible that got the job done, no? Does it take your pump 30 minutes to flood the tray?

Thanks for your time.

EDIT: just thought, even if you don't have access to a hose, you can just buy a threaded adapter at Home Depot which will turn your kitchen faucet into the equivalent of a hose so that you can screw the R/O filter connection onto it.


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## smokingrubber (Nov 23, 2009)

Any RO system needs a serious drain though. To fill a 30 gal tub, you waiste 100-120 gallons down the drain. That's a mess and a half if that hose ends up on the floor!

Good luck with tap water. I believe there are nutrient systems specially formulated for tap water? Are you using one of those?


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## laserbrn (Nov 23, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> A couple of things - if you have a hose, the filter I have (Stealth) hooks up right to it, without having to do any real "permanent" changes to water lines - just screw it on the hose and you're basically done.
> 
> Also, why do you flood for 30 minutes? I'm new to this whole E&F game, but I thought you wanted to flood for as short as possible that got the job done, no? Does it take your pump 30 minutes to flood the tray?
> 
> ...


Do you have a link to this RO filter? I don't have a hose connection anywhere, but I can hook it up to my sink. I've seen those connections before.

I flood for 30 minutes because that's the increments the cheapo timers work on. It's always worked well for me and I don't see any reason flooding for 30 minutes would be a problem.

It takes about 7 minutes to fill the tray to the line where I want it right now. If I could set the timer to 20 minutes, I'd probably do that, but it's not really worth it. 

I used to use digi-timers, but I was doing a closet grow once in my bedroom and the damn lights started flickering on an off in the middle of the dark cycle. Strangest shit I'd ever seen and I've since stuck to only the mechanical timers.

I have one digital timer and it's for my Ozone generator so that I can have it off for an hour and half and on for 15 minutes repeating throughout the day.


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## greenesthaze (Nov 23, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> The seeds have been ordered through kindseed.com. I read mixed reviews about this seedbank, but it's nearly impossible to get FI shipped to the US any other way. If this doesn't work out, I'll have to try something else. I promised to practice due diligence in finding these seeds and I will do just that. I purchased these seeds using my credit card so if there's a problem and I can always file a complaint with my CC company.
> 
> For those of you who don't already know, I am a California Prop 215 patient. I did not smoke marijuana before my doctor advised me to try it.
> 
> ...




i have seen this fucking incredible in a magizine outdoor grow or something around those lines... but anyway good choice.. wish i could have thrown in this one 
but ive heard a lot of great things about fucking incredible good luck


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## Bob Smith (Nov 23, 2009)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hydro-Logic-Stealth-100-RO-Reverse-Osmosis-Hydroponics_W0QQitemZ130344647699QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e59257c13

Pretty damn simple to hookup (and I'm as un-handy as they come) - just screw it into a hose (or hose adapter off of a sink), and you're done - the black line is the "waste" line (which you could simply leave in your sink) and the blue line is where the "good" water comes out of.

The link above is where I got mine from - took a few days, but pretty damn quick.


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## laserbrn (Nov 23, 2009)

Seems like it would work. I'll have to think about that for the future. Thanks for the link. I have used them in the past and they work very well. Things have just been working out pretty well with the tap water so I'll see how it goes. These are expensive beans to play with, but tap water makes life a lot easier.

I need to drop the money on a dehumidifier right now for winter more than I need the RO, so I'm going to go with that. My lady lost her job so money's tight. I'm just glad I grow my own meds or I'd been in a world of shit.


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## laserbrn (Nov 23, 2009)

4 days since sprout....

Although I would really call this day 1, for the sake of this journal this will be day 4.


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## warisnottheanswer (Nov 24, 2009)

we have lift off!


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## Jerry Garcia (Nov 24, 2009)

I like the way you covered the rockwool laser. Is that to keep light out of the roots?


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## madcatter (Nov 24, 2009)

As a med M patient I am watching this closely


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## smokingrubber (Nov 24, 2009)

Nice babies Laser. They look like california cows (happy)! Are you using tap water on those or distilled?


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## thedude121212 (Nov 24, 2009)

CONGRATULATIONS!


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## SmokeyMcChokey (Nov 24, 2009)

WHOOO cant wait to see how the do!


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## laserbrn (Nov 24, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> I like the way you covered the rockwool laser. Is that to keep light out of the roots?


Yes sir. I don't want light on the tops of my rockwool cubes. PARTICULARLY if you start your seeds in the cubes and need to water from the top EVER. If you even do it once, you open the door to algae and mold. It's just best to keep them covered up.



smokingrubber said:


> Nice babies Laser. They look like california cows (happy)! Are you using tap water on those or distilled?


 
Ahh thank you. I've been using RO water on the babies. But the reservoir is filled and ready with tap water. I just can't bring myself to turn it on. I've always used RO and I know that they are perfectly fine with tap water later in the cycle (I'm using tap on my current flowering batch, have been since about 2 weeks before flower), but seedlings...I dunno. $140.00 beans and a supply running low might not be the time to test the water sorta speak.


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## thedude121212 (Nov 24, 2009)

because i didn't trust the tap water i just germed in a seperate tray in the cubes with bottled r/o. u kno just keepin around 2"of water. then after they were around a week old i put them in the system with tap water that had just been filtered with those cheap pur ones u get from home depot and everything worked out beautifully. as long as their good genetics u shood be all good.


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## thedude121212 (Nov 24, 2009)

have faith just because one brick of ur house is currently cracked doesn't mean the whole house is comin down u kno what i mean. i'm sure these girls will be beasts just like ur last ones no matter what u decide to do. the force is strong with u young padawan.




ain't this sum weird shit look what they come up with these days it's called a padawan trainer maybe we're not so far away from havin flyin cars after all.


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## smokingrubber (Nov 24, 2009)

Good call on the babies. They don't take much water when they're that young so it's not that big of a hardship to tote 2 gallons a week.

So, if you've got an RO system somewhere near you, why not just buy 100ft of 1/4" water line for $10 and string it up once every 2 weeks? The line at my friends house is easy 50ft. It works without a problem. They make quick-connect fittings. Would probably be worth it while they're young imo. Just a thought. It sure beats totin' buckets!


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## thedude121212 (Nov 24, 2009)

hey man i'm sure u did a lot of shoppin around 4 tents since u have one. so is this a good deal or wat?




3'11"x 3'11"x 6'7" $209


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## laserbrn (Nov 24, 2009)

thedude121212 said:


> because i didn't trust the tap water i just germed in a seperate tray in the cubes with bottled r/o. u kno just keepin around 2"of water. then after they were around a week old i put them in the system with tap water that had just been filtered with those cheap pur ones u get from home depot and everything worked out beautifully. as long as their good genetics u shood be all good.


That's exactly what I've been doing. They are now in 4x4 rockwool cubes that were soaked and they are still very damp after about 26 hours so I think I'll be okay watering with bottled RO water for now or picking up 5 gallons or so and just getting them through the next week or so.


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## laserbrn (Nov 24, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Good call on the babies. They don't take much water when they're that young so it's not that big of a hardship to tote 2 gallons a week.
> 
> So, if you've got an RO system somewhere near you, why not just buy 100ft of 1/4" water line for $10 and string it up once every 2 weeks? The line at my friends house is easy 50ft. It works without a problem. They make quick-connect fittings. Would probably be worth it while they're young imo. Just a thought. It sure beats totin' buckets!


 
I don't. I live in an apartment. And we have stainless steel sinks with no hole drilled in them. The way things are under my sink I can't get a tank and the whole system under there.

I don't like toting water from the grocery store RO machine. Those machines work great and the water is cheap as hell, but it looks suspicious to the neighbors when I'm lugging 20-30 gallons a week when both veg and flower are banging with good sized plants.

But for this part of the grow, I can just lug one bottle. No biggie.


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## laserbrn (Nov 24, 2009)

thedude121212 said:


> hey man i'm sure u did a lot of shoppin around 4 tents since u have one. so is this a good deal or wat?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have seen that tent a few times. It seems like one of the higher quality tents out there. It solves the problem I have with the intake being on the same side as the exhaust in my tent. I think that's fuckin' retarded and whoever designed my tent should rethink it. 

Fortunately I made it work in my space, but I would've like this tent a little more. My tent is also a little on the flimsy side, but in all honesty it hasn't made a bit of difference.

I paid I believe $130ish dollars for my tent, shipped. It could be nicer, but I think with these tents if you do your digging you pretty much get what you pay for. I wish I would've sprung a little more and gotten a nicer tent, but then I don't see how it's had an effect on plant growth, convenience, or anything else. I just WISH it where a little more sturdy. So for $130.00 I'm happy as hell with it. Just as I'm sure you'd be happy with that one. Once you grow your green in it, it won't matter to you anymore. It's just there and serve's it's function.


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## smokingrubber (Nov 24, 2009)

thedude121212 said:


> hey man i'm sure u did a lot of shoppin around 4 tents since u have one. so is this a good deal or wat?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have that same tent only a foot larger (4'9 x 4'9). I love it! It's not flimsy, and it unzips all the way open. Definately a good investment imo.


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## laserbrn (Nov 24, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I have that same tent only a foot larger (4'9 x 4'9). I love it! It's not flimsy, and it unzips all the way open. Definately a good investment imo.


Thank you for the update! That pic of your carbon filter up top really sells it. My tent couldn't hold mine up there, but I use a Can-66 filter (I believe yours there is a Can-33?). That tent looks sturdy enough to hold mine without a problem.

So it seems....you get what you pay for and I should've sprung the extra $70.00. I've spent $1000's in equipment, I've saved more $1000's on ganja, what's $70.00? Get the good shit.


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## True Stoner (Nov 24, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> I DO NOT sell marijuana. I am very addimant about this fact in that I will not even sell my good friends their bud.


Well then you can just give it away as medicine...LOL


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## smokingrubber (Nov 24, 2009)

That is a Can 66 my friend. The vent plumbing is all 6" (everything inside the tent).


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## laserbrn (Nov 24, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> That is a Can 66 my friend. The vent plumbing is all 6" (everything inside the tent).


Wow....that worked out nicely. I guess I should've gone a bit bigger and with the more sturdy tent. But in all honesty I'm happy with my setup. I'm going to buy another tent at some point and I'll probably buy and identical one to my current tent. It's cheap and for doing side by side comparisons I'd really like to have all equipment identical.


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## smokingrubber (Nov 24, 2009)

Probably doesn't make a damn bit of difference to the finished product. I like the extra rigidity so that I can get more equipment off the ground. Leaves more room for the crop.

With all that equipment, walking around in there is a bitch though. I'm 6'4" 300lbs so walking around in there wasn't really gonna happen too often anyway.


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## laserbrn (Nov 24, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Probably doesn't make a damn bit of difference to the finished product. I like the extra rigidity so that I can get more equipment off the ground. Leaves more room for the crop.
> 
> With all that equipment, walking around in there is a bitch though. I'm 6'4" 300lbs so walking around in there wasn't really gonna happen too often anyway.


Haha, I don't walk around in mine at all. My carbon filter is just outside the tent. My 3x3 tray and the plants pretty much fill the 4x4 space in my tent.
My veg area is in an 8x4 closet and of course has TONS of room. I've considered flipping this around so I would use the closet for flower and veg in the smaller tent, but for now I like things the way that they are.


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## smokingrubber (Nov 24, 2009)

I've been walkin around in there while I'm setting shit up. I'm all done now though . . . time to grow. My babies are a week older than yours. I've got the 1000w MH waiting for them, but I'm scared I'll merk em with too much light. What do you think?


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## laserbrn (Nov 24, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I've been walkin around in there while I'm setting shit up. I'm all done now though . . . time to grow. My babies are a week older than yours. I've got the 1000w MH waiting for them, but I'm scared I'll merk em with too much light. What do you think?


Alright, you seem like an okay guy. I'm going to take your name off the quote. That was some silly shit though...Just hope I come across some sillier shit soon, it doesn't usually take long and I don't usually even remember what the old one was.

I'm going to check out your grow journal when I get back from lunch and I'll check out your little girls. I'm always a bit weary of blasting them with too much light, but if you're a week ahead of me and you can that light at least 4' above the plants you should be fine. I would start it as high as possible. Put a stake next to each of your seedlings and mark it with a sharpie. Mark it each day and if the little girls are getting taller than they are bushy you need to bring it down 6". You'll be able to see the stretch really early this way.

Anyway, I'll hit you up on your thread when I get back from lunch like I said and I'll remove the name from the quote then too. My girl is staring at me like I"m the biggest dickhead in the world while she patiently waits for me to get up to go to lunch.

Oh and if you have MW2 we should play.


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## DoeEyed (Nov 24, 2009)

I'm really interested in this strain, gonna have to pull up a chair.


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## thedude121212 (Nov 26, 2009)

thanx 4 the input on the tent guys even though before i seen the replies i had already purchased it cuz i kno a good thing when i see it


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## laserbrn (Nov 27, 2009)

Seedlings sure are slow sons of bitches. I usually have so much going on that I don't pay that much attention to my plants. Maybe once, twice a day I check on them to make sure nothing has failed (lights, fans, etc.) and to look for problems/bugs. 

But these seedlings have me goin' in and out of the veg area over and over to see how much they've grown. Which ain't much, I always forget how painfully slow it is in the beginning. Clones grow so much faster from the start and I always feel like the something is wrong with the seedlings. I know why newbies ALWAYS nute their seedlings now, they must figure something's gotta give and they must need something. 

So to keep us updated:

Starting Week 2:

PH: 6.0
Nutrients: Only Hygrozyme, no nutrients
Watering Cycle: Once per day for 30 minutes.
Photoperiod: 24/0 (when the beans I planted later sprout I'll switch to 18/6)
Temperature: 80 degrees
Humidity: 55%

We'll chug along like this for at least another week. Being that I will now have seedlings about a week behind these 6 the beginning of their lives will all be very gentle and we may see some N deficiency in these 6 for a couple of days to a week while I let the little ones ease into their life. Nothing to worry about, once we get going on nutes it will keep it in check and I'm sure that they will all flourish.


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## woodsmaneh! (Nov 27, 2009)

I got my FI seeds in July and just trimmed a clone last night. Works well and is a great tasting smooth smoking addition.

I find it is a finicky plant, does not like to be over watered and real easy on the food. These are all mom's and they grow slow. 2 Phno types so far.


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## OpTikPhiber (Nov 28, 2009)

I am excited to watch your journal, thanks for the the open voting and sharing. I think we are all REALLY interested in seeing FI grow...with a name like that you have really big shoes to fill. Honestly it takes big balls as the breeder to name a strain FI! Can't wait to see this thing happen, thx again.


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## TCurtiss (Nov 28, 2009)

Laser 

I voted for the FI buds 

I am going to pull up my easy chair and chill out


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## Raef (Nov 28, 2009)

lookin forward to FI..... been hesitant as i heard it's a bit finicky. just pulled up the recliner


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## laserbrn (Nov 28, 2009)

Raef said:


> lookin forward to FI..... been hesitant as i heard it's a bit finicky. just pulled up the recliner


I keep hearing that it's finicky, but I welcome it a bit. This ain't my first rodeo and I suspect we'll get through anything that might arise. 

I have found that most strains that are considered "finicky" simply don't like to be overfed. If you keep the feeding lighter they tend to stay less "finicky". So I expect this will be a bit of a long journal and a long process as the plants and I get to know each other and we coax them to a hopefully smooth finish.

I've still been searching for grow journals for past FI grows and I can't seem to find much if anything. Does anyone have links to grow journals? I don't care if they are on one of the other many forums or any other sources you can find some info. I'd really rather learn from what others have gone through and what I can expect. I can usually avoid certain pitfalls that way. Hence my membership at RIU.


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## Raef (Nov 28, 2009)

http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-grow-journals/405946-fucking-incredible.html


hope this helps


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## laserbrn (Nov 28, 2009)

Raef said:


> http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-grow-journals/405946-fucking-incredible.html
> 
> 
> hope this helps


Am I crazy or does that thread die after 8 posts? I saw it come up on google, but it doesn't seem to go far.


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## Raef (Nov 28, 2009)

doubt you're too damn crazy........ did you sign up to grasscity


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## Raef (Nov 28, 2009)

you are right there are two diff fi grows on there that amount to diddly squat sorry dude


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## laserbrn (Nov 29, 2009)

Okay....so this has ALREADY been a strange grow for me! I love it when we can get a few different things going on.

1) I ordered 10 seeds @ $140.00 and received 12. 2 were a bit on the small side and they did germinate, but didn't really take off so I chucked'em. That should give me 10 plants right? Well, I have 11. One of the seeds sprouted 2 plants. I've seen this happen to a couple of people on here over the years (pretty rare) and I'm interested in seeing what we can do with it! 

Pretty crazy shit if you ask me. I don't know how long I'll let it go right now, but for now it's off an running. I'll probably grow them out seperately just to see for curiosity's sake if one could be male and one female (although doubtful.

2) The plants are already yellowing a little bit. Nothing terrible, but they aren't being fed and only on plain water. I did end up feeding them with plain tap water, but I think I'll just keep on with what I'm doing. I'm waiting for a solid third set of leaves before even putting a tiny amount of nutes in the water. I have seedlings that are now a bit behind and are in the same system. If the problem gets worse I'll have to protect them from the flood (with pots) and hand water them until they catch up.

Anyway....some pictures, please chime in with whatever you've got.


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## laserbrn (Nov 29, 2009)

I just looked and saw that one of the leaves is *just* starting "The Twist" so I'm going to go fill up about 50 gallons worth of RO water. When that runs out I'll try them on tap again. Should last 2 reservoirs so almost all of veg hopefully.

Too much calcium in the damned water. I knew not to use tap, but until I KNOW something won't work, especially if it's easier, I have to try it.


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## TCurtiss (Nov 29, 2009)

Have you tried using spring water?

I use Western Family Spring water

I did for this grow and was pretty happy with the results


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## d.c. beard (Dec 1, 2009)

Use DISTILLED water. Spring has other unwanted things in it. Distilled is pure. Distilled is also cheaper. I get mine from Wal Mart for $0.68 a gallon now that they raised the price. I think they know where all the distilled is going....


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## laserbrn (Dec 1, 2009)

d.c. beard said:


> Use DISTILLED water. Spring has other unwanted things in it. Distilled is pure. Distilled is also cheaper. I get mine from Wal Mart for $0.68 a gallon now that they raised the price. I think they know where all the distilled is going....


I just use RO from the Glacier water machines out in front of the grocery store. It's $.025 /gallon and comes out to 10 ppm. Hard to beat that.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 1, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> I just use RO from the Glacier water machines out in front of the grocery store. It's $.025 /gallon and comes out to 10 ppm. Hard to beat that.


Tell you what, I've basically stopped using my RO filter, as I'm just using the waste water from my dehumidifier - if you have one of those, the waste water is pure as the driven snow - mine comes out to ~6PPM.


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## laserbrn (Dec 1, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Tell you what, I've basically stopped using my RO filter, as I'm just using the waste water from my dehumidifier - if you have one of those, the waste water is pure as the driven snow - mine comes out to ~6PPM.


I don't currently. Please let me know which dehumidifier you're using. This isn't an issue usually in the climate I'm in, but as winter approaches it will become an issue for me! 

I've looked at a couple, but I've been so indecisive about which one to get. Any input would be appreciated.


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## laserbrn (Dec 2, 2009)

This is day 12 and things are going a little slower than I was hoping for originally. Starting with tap water was a near disaster! I'm really glad that I was able to get it sorted promptly, but of course it slowed things down and has caused some damage to the first leafset. I don't really care in the grand scheme, but it's freakin' annoying. But that's why you change one thing at a time right? Made it really easy to diagnose what the hell was wrong.

The original 6 are recovering and the 4 later sprouters were on tap water from the beginning so they should be just fine. 

you can see in the pics that the new growth is nice and green and looks good so I am confident the plants will be just fine. Probably lost almost a week by the time all is said and done by trying the tap water on the seedlings. Those lower leaves are so damaged I'm sure that they will continue to deteriorate as the plant uses the nutrients that were in them to supply the new leaves.

Such is life right? That's what the yellowing, curling and "crunchification" you can see on the first set of leaves. Easy to diagnose as calcium toxicity causing a lockout of MG and jacking up my shit.

But we're on RO water and the corner has already been turned.

I haven't decided if I'm going to seperate the double sprouter. From what I've read they tend to grow slower and to get overgrown by the rest if you don't cull the smaller one. Has anyone already tried this?


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## Bob Smith (Dec 2, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> I don't currently. Please let me know which dehumidifier you're using. This isn't an issue usually in the climate I'm in, but as winter approaches it will become an issue for me!
> 
> I've looked at a couple, but I've been so indecisive about which one to get. Any input would be appreciated.


I use a Frigidaire 25 pint guy (had to go with the old school nobs instead of electronic start, because my atmosphere controller turns it on and off, and the newer electronic version needs to be manually restarted each time, as opposed to the knobs which restart as soon as power is "given" to them).

Honestly, though, any dehumidifier will do - the way they work is to suck water out of the air, which means that water in the "waste bucket" is pure as all hell (my R/O filter gets me 3PPM, the dehumidifier gets me 6PPM).

EDIT: But I'd go as big as you can afford - although my 25 pint works well inside my 4x4 tent, I'm going to get a really large one for the garage that it sits in (like 100 pints, if not more) because my 25 pint fills up so quickly - maybe I'll look to run a drain valve into my clean water reservoir, but I'd be scared to leave it for a few days if it was raining out.


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## laserbrn (Dec 2, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> I use a Frigidaire 25 pint guy (had to go with the old school nobs instead of electronic start, because my atmosphere controller turns it on and off, and the newer electronic version needs to be manually restarted each time, as opposed to the knobs which restart as soon as power is "given" to them).
> 
> Honestly, though, any dehumidifier will do - the way they work is to suck water out of the air, which means that water in the "waste bucket" is pure as all hell (my R/O filter gets me 3PPM, the dehumidifier gets me 6PPM).
> 
> EDIT: But I'd go as big as you can afford - although my 25 pint works well inside my 4x4 tent, I'm going to get a really large one for the garage that it sits in (like 100 pints, if not more) because my 25 pint fills up so quickly - maybe I'll look to run a drain valve into my clean water reservoir, but I'd be scared to leave it for a few days if it was raining out.


I would probably find a way to drain it. how often does it fill up the 25 pints? I can't seem to find one at a local store and I hate ordering online (I'm an instant gratification kinda guy). Do you know what kind of retailers commonly stock dehumidifiers? I checked hardware stores and walmart types.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 2, 2009)

Walmart, Best Buy, Home Depot, Sears, any kinda store like that.

And my 25 pint fills up fast - on humid days, about once a day - but if you can drain it, you're golden; after I typed that post above, started thinking about ways to drain it, actually (would make my life much, much easier).


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## laserbrn (Dec 2, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Walmart, Best Buy, Home Depot, Sears, any kinda store like that.
> 
> And my 25 pint fills up fast - on humid days, about once a day - but if you can drain it, you're golden; after I typed that post above, started thinking about ways to drain it, actually (would make my life much, much easier).


Maybe I'll check sears tonight. I don't want to run my portable A/C (it wolfs down electricity), but I'm a little worried as today humidity is really high. It was foogy as hell overnight and I'm 8 weeks into flowering with a SCROG. I really don't need budrot ganking my crop from me.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 2, 2009)

Definitely better safe then sorry - what kind of humidity are you at right now? It's 64% in my tent with lights off, which is not acceptable to me (although running SOG with smaller plants and smaller colas somewhat mitigates the rot threat).

Really gonna look into draining my dehumidifier into my fresh water as opposed to buying another one.


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## laserbrn (Dec 2, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Definitely better safe then sorry - what kind of humidity are you at right now? It's 64% in my tent with lights off, which is not acceptable to me (although running SOG with smaller plants and smaller colas somewhat mitigates the rot threat).
> 
> Really gonna look into draining my dehumidifier into my fresh water as opposed to buying another one.


It wouldn't be that hard to do. You need a float valve for whatever kind of hose you're using. Put the float valve in the reservoir to make sure that it just shuts off when the reservoir gets too high. Either that or drain directly into a 20 gallon rubbermaid, just run the house out of the tent. Cover the rubbermaid and run the hose into it. Perfectly good source of fresh water to use whenever you are ready.


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## woodsmaneh! (Dec 2, 2009)

I have been using a Simplicity Model SDR505R for 2 years and it rocks. Has a hose attachment at the back and *it's electronic*. I think I payed 250 for it. I have a couple of others but the big deal is when the power goes out. Most do not reset!!! this model does and starts right up. If your power ever goes out you need this feature on the equipment.

Peace


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## smokingrubber (Dec 2, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Really gonna look into draining my dehumidifier into my fresh water as opposed to buying another one.


Any way you can raise the dehumidifier? If you can put it up about 3ft higher, you can gravity drain into a tote. Then sump out the tote once a month. Justa thought. 

How does humidity work? If you clear the air at 4ft, what is the RH at 2ft? And viceversa? I know you're not a meteorologist, just thinking out loud.


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## woodsmaneh! (Dec 2, 2009)

I don't want to hijack your thread so I will start another and post some pic's as well. I started 6 mths ago with FI. We can all learn how this lady works together.

Peace


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## laserbrn (Dec 2, 2009)

woodsmaneh! said:


> I don't want to hijack your thread so I will start another and post some pic's as well. I started 6 mths ago with FI. We can all learn how this lady works together.
> 
> Peace


Oh man, link to it! Please share your accounts and any information you've gathered about this. It's so hard to find any real information.


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## myxedup (Dec 2, 2009)

Just finished reading the 12 pages so far, definately subscribed. 

In regards to the dehudifier, you can just pick up one of these http://www.amazon.com/Little-Giant-Condensate-Removal-Saftey/dp/B000AHT78O/ref=pd_bxgy_k_text_c .

It will pump the water to a reservoir or a drain so you can just forget about it and never have to tote your water anywhere.

Happy growing


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## rollmeUPoneSCOTTY! (Dec 2, 2009)

Hey laser,

Seen a bunch of your posts around, finally made it to this journal of yours.

Looking forward to it. 

 for now.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 2, 2009)

myxedup said:


> Just finished reading the 12 pages so far, definately subscribed.
> 
> In regards to the dehudifier, you can just pick up one of these http://www.amazon.com/Little-Giant-Condensate-Removal-Saftey/dp/B000AHT78O/ref=pd_bxgy_k_text_c .
> 
> ...


Brilliant!


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## laserbrn (Dec 2, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Brilliant!


Agreed! I've never thought of using a condensate pump for any of my needs. I'm going to get one for my A/C at the very least. I'm going to go to sears and get the dehumidifier tonight. It's either that or I chop down the plants this week instead of next. We've got rain and more humidity coming our way and I don't see them making it through it without the risk of budrot. The crops just about done and it would be a big hit financially for me to f*ck it up at this point. I smoke an ounce a week on average, but with the additional smoking this month due to Bro's Thanksgiving at my place and some other activities and my girlfriend becoming unemployed the weed has gone by fast. So I'm going to be buying this week probably at the dispensary and I can't afford to let that go on for months and months. This is the only way I can afford my meds, that's why I do it. And I've happened to have a bad week with my medical problems so running out would really, really suck. This is really the only thing that increases my appetite and supresses nausea without the terrible side effects of drugs like Promethazine and Trimethobenzamide, or the one that really got me, Reglan.

It's a tough call, I only have a few hundred dollars left over this month after rent and I feel like spending 2/3 of it on a dehumidifier might be the wrong move. I'm not usually in a crunch, but times are hard, unemployment is rampant, it's December (christmas time) and blah blah blah, so I'm thinking it's time to chop. Can't risk the crop, can't afford the dehumidifier. 

Does the portable A/C still dehumidy when the Condensor is off? I can turn the fans on turn the thermostat up really high, but I don't think it will function then as a dehumidifer. Anyone know? That would be a good option.


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## laserbrn (Dec 2, 2009)

rollmeUPoneSCOTTY! said:


> Hey laser,
> 
> Seen a bunch of your posts around, finally made it to this journal of yours.
> 
> ...


Thanks for stopping by. I'm sure it will get a whole lot better here soon. Although I'm enjoying the discussion and input. I've been growing a long time, but there's always things I haven't gotten into researching yet.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 2, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> It's a tough call, I only have a few hundred dollars left over this month after rent and I feel like spending 2/3 of it on a dehumidifier might be the wrong move. I'm not usually in a crunch, but times are hard, unemployment is rampant, it's December (christmas time) and blah blah blah, so I'm thinking it's time to chop. Can't risk the crop, can't afford the dehumidifier.


Anything you get at WalMart can be easily returned in a few weeks when the crop is finished


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## laserbrn (Dec 2, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Anything you get at WalMart can be easily returned in a few weeks when the crop is finished


 
Ahh that's shady. I know Wal-Mart's a huge company and it'll be absorbed, but when I enter an agreement with someone (even if that someone is a large corporation and the agreement is the simple purchase of a product) I go in with upfront intentions and stand by my agreement. If the product peforms as promised I'm obliged to keep it. It's speaks to a persons character and your character is the only thing no one can take from you or FORCE you to change. Never compromise, no matter the rationalization.


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## woodsmaneh! (Dec 2, 2009)

here you go I started the thread in the seeds section as I am 6 months ahead with FI. I posted some pic's of the finished product and will post more of the ones I have growing now and how what when where ect 

https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/279379-fucking-incredible-vancover-island-seed.html#post3475036


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## smokingrubber (Dec 2, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Ahh that's shady. I know Wal-Mart's a huge company and it'll be absorbed, but when I enter an agreement with someone (even if that someone is a large corporation and the agreement is the simple purchase of a product) I go in with upfront intentions and stand by my agreement. If the product peforms as promised I'm obliged to keep it. It's speaks to a persons character and your character is the only thing no one can take from you or FORCE you to change. Never compromise, no matter the rationalization.


 
I agree with all that . . . except it's WALMART! LOL


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## laserbrn (Dec 9, 2009)

Alright, it's been a week since I posted pictures. Man, I just looked back at those last pictures from a week ago and these plants are having a rough start to their life a bit here. That tap water really jacked with them, I forgot how bad they looked. 

Anyway, they seem to be improving slightly. I didn't start adding nutrients until yesterday so they are a little deficient. I did this because I started those other sprouts a week behind, so I knew ahead of time that the older ones would suffer a little, but I hoped not much. I didn't add CalMag to help with the lockout from the tap water, I just figured it best to get them back on track. I added plain RO water and now they are up to ~150ppm of Sensi Grow A&B. I bumped them up 50ppm per day over the past 3 days. I will probably go ahead and actually flush this reservoir this weekend and refill with 200ppm & Hyrgrozyme.

Please let me know if you think there's something else I can try. They just don't seem very happy and I can't figure out what the deal is with them. I know they looked uglier last week so this week is an improvement, but they still seem to have a bit of that "I need MG" look to them. I just hate to add it when I know the problem wasn't really a lack of MG.

I checked the calibration on my ph meter to make sure it wasn't way outta whack and it was spot on. So my reservoir has been stable at 6.2 and it's spot on so everything should be going smoothly at this point.


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## 323cheezy (Dec 9, 2009)

you started a week or so after me and id say our plants are about the same size ....
maybe mine are a bit bigger... cause they were germinated on the 5th .....
So id say your off to a good start..... this is F ingh incredible.... love the thread name.....


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## Bob Smith (Dec 9, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Alright, it's been a week since I posted pictures. Man, I just looked back at those last pictures from a week ago and these plants are having a rough start to their life a bit here. That tap water really jacked with them, I forgot how bad they looked.
> 
> Anyway, they seem to be improving slightly. I didn't start adding nutrients until yesterday so they are a little deficient. I did this because I started those other sprouts a week behind, so I knew ahead of time that the older ones would suffer a little, but I hoped not much. I didn't add CalMag to help with the lockout from the tap water, I just figured it best to get them back on track. I added plain RO water and now they are up to ~150ppm of Sensi Grow A&B. I bumped them up 50ppm per day over the past 3 days. I will probably go ahead and actually flush this reservoir this weekend and refill with 200ppm & Hyrgrozyme.
> 
> ...


If I were looking for things to try, I'd lower the pH to about 5.8 - I know as soon as I hit six or start creeping slightly over is when problems start (for me, anyways). I keep my veg pH at 5.8 and my flower at 5.6, and the nute issues have all but disappeared (that, and making sure to calibrate my meter every two weeks).

If you're sure they're getting the proper nutes, then just try bumping the points down a notch or two.

In all honesty, though, they'll be fine regardless.


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## laserbrn (Dec 9, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> If I were looking for things to try, I'd lower the pH to about 5.8 - I know as soon as I hit six or start creeping slightly over is when problems start (for me, anyways). I keep my veg pH at 5.8 and my flower at 5.6, and the nute issues have all but disappeared (that, and making sure to calibrate my meter every two weeks).
> 
> If you're sure they're getting the proper nutes, then just try bumping the points down a notch or two.
> 
> In all honesty, though, they'll be fine regardless.


Yeah, I don't see them suffering to hard at this point. I do usually keep my ph lower, I was trying to keep it a little higher to minimize the amount of ph down going into the reservoir when I was using the tap water. Tap water is buffered so we that trying to keep it at 5.5 it'll just constantly rise and you'll constantly add ph down and I mean pouring it, not using drops like usual. Now that I'm back to using RO I'll kick it down to 5.5 like I usually have it before their feeding tonight.


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## laserbrn (Dec 9, 2009)

323cheezy said:


> you started a week or so after me and id say our plants are about the same size ....
> maybe mine are a bit bigger... cause they were germinated on the 5th .....
> So id say your off to a good start..... this is F ingh incredible.... love the thread name.....


Well my friend, from my past experience with seeds we're about to be in for a lot more explosive growth over the next 30 days than the last. Once these roots get firmly established I fully expect to start seeing about 1" of growth per day. I'm planning on growing some big ass pretty buds out of this FI so I'm going to let them veg pretty large before going into flower.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 9, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Yeah, I don't see them suffering to hard at this point. I do usually keep my ph lower, I was trying to keep it a little higher to minimize the amount of ph down going into the reservoir when I was using the tap water. Tap water is buffered so we that trying to keep it at 5.5 it'll just constantly rise and you'll constantly add ph down and I mean pouring it, not using drops like usual. Now that I'm back to using RO I'll kick it down to 5.5 like I usually have it before their feeding tonight.


Lol, been there, done that with the tap water.

Was going through a bottle of pH down every two weeks before I got my R/O filter.

R/O is much more stable, and the nutes I use have pretty good pH buffering as well (GH FloraNova).


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## 323cheezy (Dec 9, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Well my friend, from my past experience with seeds we're about to be in for a lot more explosive growth over the next 30 days than the last. Once these roots get firmly established I fully expect to start seeing about 1" of growth per day. I'm planning on growing some big ass pretty buds out of this FI so I'm going to let them veg pretty large before going into flower.


very true my friend....
the first 3 weeks always suck....
after i putt mine in bigger pots......(25th day).... they just started exploding ......
theyre really goin now.....
im also using t5's now.... thinking theyre outgrowin that want to change too my 400 soon and even bigger pots...
i think u could transplant now .... just my opinion....


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## laserbrn (Dec 9, 2009)

323cheezy said:


> very true my friend....
> the first 3 weeks always suck....
> after i putt mine in bigger pots......(25th day).... they just started exploding ......
> theyre really goin now.....
> ...


I thought about putting them under a 400w, but my T5's seem to stomp the 400w's. I actually need a little more heat though so the MH might be making a return debut.

I don't transplant these until they go into flower. Hell I've even done complete batches in 4x4 rockwool cubes all the way through flower. They can hold a helluva lot of roots. I may put them into pots soon, but I have a lot of hydroton to clean first. Hell I have about 200l of hydroton to clean or discard. How the hell do I throw this shit out? It's freakn' heavy.


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## couchlock907 (Dec 9, 2009)

kind is hella cool you can call them too got couchlock from them fire!


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## laserbrn (Dec 9, 2009)

couchlock907 said:


> kind is hella cool you can call them too got couchlock from them fire!


I decided to transplant to the pots filled with hydroton. Much easier than a tray full of hydroton so I hope it works out as well. I might need to go get something to top feed the water because if the reservoir I have runs low it will have trouble feeding the plants. I can tell that this part of it is going to be a challenge and getting it figure out will be interesting. The rockwool cubes reach pretty low into the pots so they should gather up moisture, but it's like right there at the water line so we'll see how it works out.

It's only been one day and the plants are already looking better. So day by day they should all fall back in line and we should be underway. The introduction of nutes seems to be very welcome by the older ones and I can see a VERY slight burn on the younger ones, but they are going to have to take it on the chin and keep up.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 9, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> I decided to transplant to the pots filled with hydroton. Much easier than a tray full of hydroton so I hope it works out as well. I might need to go get something to top feed the water because if the reservoir I have runs low it will have trouble feeding the plants. I can tell that this part of it is going to be a challenge and getting it figure out will be interesting. The rockwool cubes reach pretty low into the pots so they should gather up moisture, but it's like right there at the water line so we'll see how it works out.
> 
> It's only been one day and the plants are already looking better. So day by day they should all fall back in line and we should be underway. The introduction of nutes seems to be very welcome by the older ones and I can see a VERY slight burn on the younger ones, but they are going to have to take it on the chin and keep up.


Couple things:

1) never understood the tray full of hydroton - individual pots (IMHO) always work way, way better - I like to be able to move my plants when needed

2) those plants are small enough where the amount they drink from the reservoir will be negligible, so the water level shouldn't decrease too much

3) As long as the roots are within 1/2" of the flood line, you'll be fine - when the water recedes, the steam of the water "evaporating" off of the hydroton will allow (and force) the roots to grow down into it

4) I also had to top feed for couple of days, not a big deal


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## smokingrubber (Dec 9, 2009)

On my "other" grow, I used 3 small tubs (4 plants ea) and filled them one at a time. That allowed me to keep the res managable (27 gal) and still flood a large and deep area. Just throwin that out there cuz it's hard to have a large res under a wide area when tents are concerned.


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## laserbrn (Dec 11, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> On my "other" grow, I used 3 small tubs (4 plants ea) and filled them one at a time. That allowed me to keep the res managable (27 gal) and still flood a large and deep area. Just throwin that out there cuz it's hard to have a large res under a wide area when tents are concerned.


Not a bad idea, but things seem to be working okay now. I lowered the flood level a little bit and now this reservoir should be just fine. The plants seem to be really veggin' now and are taking off. They look healthy and happy and the growth is starting to get alot more vigorous.


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## warisnottheanswer (Dec 11, 2009)

they seem to be doin good my dude!


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## laserbrn (Dec 11, 2009)

warisnottheanswer said:


> they seem to be doin good my dude!


Yeah, they are just chuggin' right along.


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## speedyseedz (Dec 11, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Yeah, they are just chuggin' right along.



The thing I always hated most about hydroton, was that it just got everywhere, even a year after I had stopped using it, I was still picking them out of crevices.


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## laserbrn (Dec 11, 2009)

speedyseedz said:


> The thing I always hated most about hydroton, was that it just got everywhere, even a year after I had stopped using it, I was still picking them out of crevices.


Haha, no shit. I've always used it but with all the cleaning and all of the shit I have hydroton everywhere. I don't mind it in this setup, but the tray full of hydroton is a real bitch. It pinches your fingers when you try to pick it up, it leaves dust everywhere and is overall just a real pain in the ass. But I love the additional rootspace it provides and I've got my system down pretty well now so it's not SUCH a pain in the ass.


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## speedyseedz (Dec 12, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Haha, no shit. I've always used it but with all the cleaning and all of the shit I have hydroton everywhere. I don't mind it in this setup, but the tray full of hydroton is a real bitch. It pinches your fingers when you try to pick it up, it leaves dust everywhere and is overall just a real pain in the ass. But I love the additional rootspace it provides and I've got my system down pretty well now so it's not SUCH a pain in the ass.


I changed to cellmax, its like 1/4inch minature cubes.


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## laserbrn (Dec 12, 2009)

speedyseedz said:


> I changed to cellmax, its like 1/4inch minature cubes.


I'll look into that. I used to just use rockwool slabs and cubes and it was easier, but I switched to this. I'll look into something different over the summer when I'm not really growin' my meds, but doing more experimenting due to the heat.


Things are looking good, I took a couple of pictures because that's generally how I evaluate my own plants. I can take more time and look more carefully if I just snap photo's, look at them and decide what's wrong or right with my girls. Somtimes I miss things when I just briefly poke my head in there.

We have a clear mutant, but I don't think I've ever had a grow without one (from seeds). I'm not sure if it'll just grow out of it's mutation or what, but I never get rid of them for some reason. 

Growth has been pretty good over the last 3 days and I'm fairly happy right now. I also have a new puppy for this grow too, those that followed the WW grow might be interested in knowing that my lab is now 63lbs as of yesterday! 

This is the new guy and he's just 7 1/2 weeks old. So he's part of this "grow" as well.


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## laserbrn (Dec 12, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> I'll look into that. I used to just use rockwool slabs and cubes and it was easier, but I switched to this. I'll look into something different over the summer when I'm not really growin' my meds, but doing more experimenting due to the heat.
> 
> 
> Things are looking good, I took a couple of pictures because that's generally how I evaluate my own plants. I can take more time and look more carefully if I just snap photo's, look at them and decide what's wrong or right with my girls. Somtimes I miss things when I just briefly poke my head in there.
> ...


 
Anyone notice the distinctly odd thing about the mutant? Alternating nodes at the second node. What the fuck?


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## Fditty00 (Dec 12, 2009)

Laser! I neva left. I been watchin. U know how watchin a grow at veg state is! Bt i jus ordered 10 FI s. Did u have to send $ up front to?


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## laserbrn (Dec 12, 2009)

Fditty00 said:


> Laser! I neva left. I been watchin. U know how watchin a grow at veg state is! Bt i jus ordered 10 FI s. Did u have to send $ up front to?


I never send money up front brotha. I always order with a credit card so if they try to fuck me I can call my credit card company and tell them.

Every story I've heard of people gettin' fucked and screwed over has been someone who just send money up front with a printed form. 

I was happy with kindseed.com and I have nothing but the best to say about them thus far, they even sent me 12 seeds instead of 10, but anyone can jack your envelope full of money along the way.

And yes, I do know how it is to watch veggin' plants. I try to keep the picture posts to weekly, but this mutant is trippin me out. I don't think I've ever had a plant with the second node alternating.


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## Fditty00 (Dec 14, 2009)

Kindseeds.com! Good lookin! Hope they send 12 instead of 10 also. I like veggin plants. U can tell what kind of personality they are gonna have and what to expect in the future.


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## snutter (Dec 15, 2009)

subscribed. I'm going to enjoy watching this thread. I love the look of fucking incredible. Can't wait to see how she grows..


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## HookedOnChronic (Dec 15, 2009)

haha nice laser! scribed, u talking pic 2? where the node on the left is a little higher?


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## laserbrn (Dec 15, 2009)

HookedOnChronic said:


> haha nice laser! scribed, u talking pic 2? where the node on the left is a little higher?


 
Yeah...that's a trip right? That plant is alternating nodes already. It's grown a bit since the pictures and it's clear to see the alternating nodes and deformations on that one.


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## HookedOnChronic (Dec 15, 2009)

maybe it will yeild some trip ganja
fuckin incredible for a reason lol


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## laserbrn (Dec 16, 2009)

Just chuggin' along. It looks like there's 2 that are falling behind and that are just flat out bad pheno's. So out of 12 seeds I got 8 truely viable seeds in the end. The mutant could grow through it's genetic troubles, but it's unlikely. I'm thinking that's just not going to happen as it's lagging behind. There's another one that is also growing in a little "sidewayz" you could call it. The leaves aren't twisting and it's hard to explain ,but a few of the leaves have "turned" so the stem has a 90 degree bend in it.

Anyway, everything else is chugging along and vegging there way up to size. It'll just be a bit longer before I take the first cuttings and get them to root for the purpose of sexing.


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## MEANGREEN69 (Dec 16, 2009)

subed..looking good


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 16, 2009)

Scribed here of course..... What took me so long???


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## madcatter (Dec 17, 2009)

Have you considered bamboostakes andsomeloosefittingtiewraps, you mightbeableto low stress train that lady back into shape?


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## HardNocklife (Dec 17, 2009)

Hell yeah. looking good


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## HookedOnChronic (Dec 17, 2009)

fuckin right, those are from VISC seed company right? and what site u order from?


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## laserbrn (Dec 17, 2009)

MEANGREEN69 said:


> subed..looking good


Thanks



theloadeddragon said:


> Scribed here of course..... What took me so long???


I don't know, but these are the early stages. Plenty early.



madcatter said:


> Have you considered bamboostakes andsomeloosefittingtiewraps, you mightbeableto low stress train that lady back into shape?


LST which lady? I'm going to grow these all the natural way as that's the way I like it. I SCROGed my last grow and I grew the one before it straight up. I admittedly didn't fill the screen as efficiently as possible, but the yield was nearly identical. I maybe could've gained another 2-3 zips by adding another plant or two and really filling the SCROG, but all of the hassle that came with it made it too much of a PITA for my purposes. So there won't be any LST or any topping on this grow. I should preface that by saying I always do a LITTLE bending for canopy management, but no twisting around the buckets or anything of that nature. I want to see if this strain grows big cola's or what it does naturally.



HardNocklife said:


> Hell yeah. looking good


Thanks.



HookedOnChronic said:


> fuckin right, those are from VISC seed company right? and what site u order from?


The seeds are from VISC and I ordered them from kindseed.com. I used a CC and did not blindly send money overseas. I've heard lots of problems with intl. money orders and cash payments with alot of seedbanks (kindseed.com included). But when I ordered via a CC they sent the seeds no problem and I believe they arrived in 8 days.


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## D4rKeN (Dec 17, 2009)

nice grow plants looking good subscribed


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## woodsmaneh! (Dec 18, 2009)

Laserbrn how's it going I made some changes and am happy with the way things are going now. Will post pic's later tonight.

I moved my FI from 100% promix to 50% coco and promix then gave them a good drink and food and they are different plants now. I not bitchen about how slow they are anymore. I sexed the other 2 and they are both females. 5 for 5 , the others that did not make must have been the males. LMAO 
I think I have 2 pheno types. #5 is a fat bushy plant and the others are tall. I think these are going to be more like the pictures.


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## laserbrn (Dec 18, 2009)

woodsmaneh! said:


> Laserbrn how's it going I made some changes and am happy with the way things are going now. Will post pic's later tonight.
> 
> I moved my FI from 100% promix to 50% coco and promix then gave them a good drink and food and they are different plants now. I not bitchen about how slow they are anymore. I sexed the other 2 and they are both females. 5 for 5 , the others that did not make must have been the males. LMAO
> I think I have 2 pheno types. #5 is a fat bushy plant and the others are tall. I think these are going to be more like the pictures.


I'm glad that yours picked up some pace in growth. I really don't have any complaints about the growth rate thus far. I think it's right about on track. Here's a pic from the 12th and the 16th. You can see the growth difference in 4 days and I'd say that's about what I'd expect at this stage. Most of these are now getting their 5th and 6th nodes and the branching is just starting right on schedule. So I would definitely not call these "slow veggers", but rather average. I do have a couple that are lagging behind but I think it's just their genetics. They both have mutations so I think they'll get chucked. They aren't quite to the point of hopeless yet though, once they fall too far behind it'll be a losing battle with the light and I'll get rid of them. They get to decide how bad they want to live.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 18, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> They get to decide how bad they want to live.


That's exactly what my momma always says about her plants. She said she does her part and if they don't like it, there'll be another one that'd loooove to take it's pot! She don't grow much mj (yet) but she likes to dote around her yard fussin. You gotta be a performer to stick around in my mamma's garden!


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## tea tree (Dec 20, 2009)

i am going to almost the samel identical grow. I am trying to get it all worked out. I have just come back to hydro and am still putting together equipment. But right now I am wondering if I could take these 4 in rockwool blocks thru some veg and then when the roots show out stick them in top of one gallon pots filled with hydrton. Actually I use something better than hydroton I think, it is called recycled tire media mulch and it works like hydrotn, little rubber chips, but no clean up of dust and it is ealy cleanable for the next crop. Judt whack the roots and it all falls out! 10 bucks for a huge bag at home depot. Anway, I am wondering if the cube will dry out? Yours are pretty low and I am wondering if the cube gets wet at all or if it stays dry and the root dont mind? HAve you ever thought of adding more hdrotn as the roots grow and just sorta potting up?


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## laserbrn (Dec 20, 2009)

tea tree said:


> i am going to almost the samel identical grow. I am trying to get it all worked out. I have just come back to hydro and am still putting together equipment. But right now I am wondering if I could take these 4 in rockwool blocks thru some veg and then when the roots show out stick them in top of one gallon pots filled with hydrton. Actually I use something better than hydroton I think, it is called recycled tire media mulch and it works like hydrotn, little rubber chips, but no clean up of dust and it is ealy cleanable for the next crop. Judt whack the roots and it all falls out! 10 bucks for a huge bag at home depot. Anway, I am wondering if the cube will dry out? Yours are pretty low and I am wondering if the cube gets wet at all or if it stays dry and the root dont mind? HAve you ever thought of adding more hdrotn as the roots grow and just sorta potting up?


I've never considered "potting up" using hydroton. This is my first time growing in hydroton in a pot. I previously had my entire tray full of hydroton so that I could see just how big the roots would actually grow given the opportunity to grow as large as they wanted. These pots hold more than enough hydroton to allow for that growth that I previously saw. I usually do my ENTIRE veg in 4x4 rockwool cubes and the plants do just fine, there's no need to transplant so early. I did it just so I could throw out all of the excess hydroton from my tent and get it all cleaned out.


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## laserbrn (Dec 20, 2009)

It's been another 4 days, I know it's boring during veg, but I enjoy looking at them. Very good looking pheno type, I'm pretty excited about the consistenty thus far in leaf structure. I'm used to getting a few different pheno's and it's kind of a mixed bag. This looks like it's going to at least be pretty consistent. The mutant (with alternating nodes as a baby) does actually seem to be growing through it's troubles and now it's just one that's lagging behind.

We'll just keep on' keepin' on for a nother couple of weeks here, hopefully by the end of another week or so I can take a cutting from each to start getting them rooted and ready for sexing.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 20, 2009)

Are you looking for a good mother and you'll flower the rest? How are you keeping the mother? Gotta think about that myself soon.


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## MEANGREEN69 (Dec 20, 2009)

looking good, how old are they now? also hows there node spaceing and stem?


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## laserbrn (Dec 20, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Are you looking for a good mother and you'll flower the rest? How are you keeping the mother? Gotta think about that myself soon.


I'm always looking for a good mother. I don't know how many females I'm going to end up with so the results of the sexing will determine the next course of action. If I end up with a low number of females I will clone the plants and flower the clones. If I end up with high number of females I will take clones and flower these plants from seed. Refill the veg space with clones and flower them all. It's all just a matter of timing dependant upon number of females.


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## laserbrn (Dec 20, 2009)

MEANGREEN69 said:


> looking good, how old are they now? also hows there node spaceing and stem?


These will be 1 month old in 3 days the stems are strong and the spacing is pretty good. I will try to get a picture that shows the spacing. I wouldn't call it super tight or super spaced out. It has very broad leaves thus far and seems to be around 60%-40% Indica-Sativa hybrid. Definitely seems promising anyway you look at it.


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## Fditty00 (Dec 21, 2009)

When u gonna flip em? Do u got any beans left? I ask because SICC is gonna have a Solo Cup Grow Off. It starts Jan1st. U guys should get it. Some dude is gonna donate 10 mini-thunderfuck auto beans.. Join us, if u got any left, clones are excepted to (perfect timing for u!) 

Check it out!
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/285065-party-cup-competition.html


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## laserbrn (Dec 21, 2009)

Fditty00 said:


> When u gonna flip em? Do u got any beans left? I ask because SICC is gonna have a Solo Cup Grow Off. It starts Jan1st. U guys should get it. Some dude is gonna donate 10 mini-thunderfuck auto beans.. Join us, if u got any left, clones are excepted to (perfect timing for u!)
> 
> Check it out!
> https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/285065-party-cup-competition.html


I might get in on that. Worst case I have a few beans around and I can go grab a clone from a dispensary for the sake of the competition. Interesting...


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## Fditty00 (Dec 21, 2009)

Def gonna be interesting. Not like the shot glass grow that never ended.


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## laserbrn (Dec 22, 2009)

MEANGREEN69 said:


> looking good, how old are they now? also hows there node spaceing and stem?


These pictures show the spacing a little better.


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## Fditty00 (Dec 22, 2009)

Look like ur takin care of them. Serious!


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## laserbrn (Dec 22, 2009)

Fditty00 said:


> Look like ur takin care of them. Serious!


Thanks, I owe it to everyone here who participated and gave their input to do this grow legit! Mean and Green just the way I like them. I'm liking how big and broad the leaves are. These things sure are growing some foliage. Most of the strains I've grown have had more sativa in them and grown more vertical. These are stacking up nicely and I am seeing very good things in the future.


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## Fditty00 (Dec 22, 2009)

Thats wut i read the most of. How does my plant look? How much u think ill get? All i can say is, keep the leaves green. Worry about yield later. If u keep em green, u can harvest as much as ud like... Check in to revegging. Not u. But ur foloweres..


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## dbo24242 (Dec 23, 2009)

hey see you got an ebb and flow setup - very nice. great growth rates over the last 5 days. just invested in a similar setup

subscribed


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## laserbrn (Dec 23, 2009)

dbo24242 said:


> hey see you got an ebb and flow setup - very nice. great growth rates over the last 5 days. just invested in a similar setup
> 
> subscribed


Thanks, I've been running Ebb & Flow for years now. I don't think there's a simple system around. It's clean, it's easy, growth rates are phenomenal and causes me very few headaches.


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## dbo24242 (Dec 23, 2009)

hell yea man - how do you take precaution to keep your table and res free of pathogens? I was thinking to add 35% H2O2 at like 3ml/gal or something but since I'm flooding coco soil mix I would like to keep my microbeasties... just not really sure at all what to do to avoid nasties. prolly end up running the H2O2.


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## laserbrn (Dec 23, 2009)

dbo24242 said:


> hell yea man - how do you take precaution to keep your table and res free of pathogens? I was thinking to add 35% H2O2 at like 3ml/gal or something but since I'm flooding coco soil mix I would like to keep my microbeasties... just not really sure at all what to do to avoid nasties. prolly end up running the H2O2.


I use Hygrozyme in my reservoir and if I'm having a helluva time with pathogens then I will use Tarantula or Aquashield. I don't use organic nutrients and try to keep all organic materials out of my reservoir. 

I flush my reservoir every two weeks also to try to keep things clean. When I flush I take the pots off the trays and give the trays and reservoirs a good solid scrub down. Cleanliness is next to godliness, except Cleanliness is real of course .


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## dbo24242 (Dec 23, 2009)

Thanks for the info, laserbrn: I'll look into the hygrozyme that seems real popular with hydro setups.


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## grodrowithme (Dec 24, 2009)

what size are the trays? and do they hold 10 each?


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## laserbrn (Dec 24, 2009)

grodrowithme said:


> what size are the trays? and do they hold 10 each?


My veg tray is 2x4 and my flower tray in my tent is 3x3. I am going to add another 2x4 to the veg room and actually use it to flower over the winter. 

The plan is to flower this batch in the 4x4 tent and I'll either take lots of clones from these and get them flowering or I'll head the dispensary to find another strain.

So to summarize (Because I don't think I've explained this well) I'm going to have:

4x4 tent flowering Fucking Incredible under a 600w HPS
8x3 12' room split into two sides with 600wHPS on both sides. One side will have my current 2x4 tray running hydro and the other whill have soil potted plants. The purpose their is to see the dfference between soil and hydro in taste and quality of finished product. The growth I already know the hydro should stomp, but it's about finished product comparison.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 24, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> 8x3 12' room split into two sides with 600wHPS on both sides. One side will have my current 2x4 tray running hydro and the other whill have soil potted plants. The purpose their is to see the dfference between soil and hydro in taste and quality of finished product. The growth I already know the hydro should stomp, but it's about finished product comparison.


Now that's an interesting and worthwhile experiment right there 

I know what my guess is, but I'll be definitely checking that out when you start it up.

You gonna handwater the soil or have it automated via E&F? I know automating would technically make it "hydro", but I'm just curious..........


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## laserbrn (Dec 24, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Now that's an interesting and worthwhile experiment right there
> 
> I know what my guess is, but I'll be definitely checking that out when you start it up.
> 
> You gonna handwater the soil or have it automated via E&F? I know automating would technically make it "hydro", but I'm just curious..........


I will handwater the soil plants. Too much work to automate it for this one grow. If I end up liking the soil better overall and switching my methodology I may eventually figure something out for automatic watering, but for the sake of the first grow I need to figure out how much watering is necessary, what size pots would be or would've been best etc. To some extent since this will only be my 2nd or 3rd soil grow and 1st since I really got "good" at growing I need to try to keep it as simple as possible and figure out it all out. I have pretty good knowledgbe of it, but the biggest piece of knowledge I've gained, "It get's better every time". So the first time while I'm sure will be successful I'll probably have 50 notes for things to do different next times. I've been using hydro for a long time and I'm just getting to the point where most of 'those' notes are just strain related.

For example: This strain had an N defeciency beginning at week 6 of flower. 

I can't FIX the problem at 6 weeks of flowering, but I can sure as shit make sure that next time I provide more N early on to keep the leaves green longer. 

If I've done 3 grows and they all display said N deficiency for example, then I know that the fertilizers I am using are lacking and pieces of shit. 

So because every grow is a quest for knowledge and there are always things that happen and things I look back upon and wish I'd known, I feel that keeping the soil grow as simple as possible and taking the notes and learning the nuances is going to be the only way. 

Little rant...sorry. That morning bowl sometimes just gets me good and high. 

~Merry Christmas


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## speedyseedz (Dec 24, 2009)

I hope that everything will be flushed and dried properly before making that comparison


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## laserbrn (Dec 24, 2009)

speedyseedz said:


> I hope that everything will be flushed and dried properly before making that comparison


Of course, this ain't my first rodeo. I think my hydro bud tastes just as good as soil buds.

None of my friends can tell the difference and there is a missing slight undertone from the bud, but nothing to offset my growth rates and yields. I'm just doing this as an experiment, I'm sure as fuck going to focus on taste. My drying and curing is spot on and it should be a good experiment.


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## speedyseedz (Dec 24, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Of course, this ain't my first rodeo. I think my hydro bud tastes just as good as soil buds.
> 
> None of my friends can tell the difference and there is a missing slight undertone from the bud, but nothing to offset my growth rates and yields. I'm just doing this as an experiment, I'm sure as fuck going to focus on taste. My drying and curing is spot on and it should be a good experiment.


I know someone who grew some bud in soil, he proper torched it with nutes and it came out tasting horrible, 

I know people who grow bud in soil, take all the extra time and care and then dry it in 3 days so it has a fraction of the flavour.

Hydro bud is just as easy to spoil the taste, but I still firmly believe you can have it take the pepsi test with soil bud if you can do a good job.


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## HookedOnChronic (Dec 24, 2009)

looking good lsr!!


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## laserbrn (Dec 24, 2009)

speedyseedz said:


> I know someone who grew some bud in soil, he proper torched it with nutes and it came out tasting horrible,
> 
> I know people who grow bud in soil, take all the extra time and care and then dry it in 3 days so it has a fraction of the flavour.
> 
> Hydro bud is just as easy to spoil the taste, but I still firmly believe you can have it take the pepsi test with soil bud if you can do a good job.


I hear ya. My plan thus far is to use Happy Frog soil, then transplant to OF and use Tiger Bloom and Bloom Big and that's it. I know it's not 100% organic (Tiger Bloom), but with just that the buds should come out good right?


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## Fditty00 (Dec 24, 2009)

Merry Xmas to all, and to all a full pipe.


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## TCurtiss (Dec 24, 2009)

I love M-mas bud grown from love

Merry X-mas to all

Time to vape


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## laserbrn (Dec 24, 2009)

TCurtiss said:


> I love M-mas bud grown from love
> 
> Merry X-mas to all
> 
> Time to vape


Agreed, the fam bam just left and I finally got to smokin' Merry X-Mas RIU, and good night.


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## laserbrn (Dec 25, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Agreed, the fam bam just left and I finally got to smokin' Merry X-Mas RIU, and good night.


Alright, I flushed my reservoir and got things back in order. The PPM was rising gradually so I refilled the reservoir with a weaker solution of nutrients. I think all that happened was the existing reservoir ran low on Nitrogen in particular and the plants weren't absorbing some of the other nutrients because at the same time the ppm was rising the lower leaves on the larger plants are yellowing slightly. 

I refilled with a little bit weaker solution and today the ppm fell about 20ppm so I'll add a little more when I get back from peepin' the Christmas lights around town tonight. I have some plants that are a week behind so they have a slight tip burn from the nutes so right now it's still a balancing act between the two different maturity levels. Soon enough the one week difference will become nil and this will end, but it's made it more interesting nonetheless, haha.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 26, 2009)

Can you give us specifics? What was the ppm? What is it now? ph? Thanks! Merry Christmas.


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## laserbrn (Dec 26, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Can you give us specifics? What was the ppm? What is it now? ph? Thanks! Merry Christmas.


yeah, the PPM was 350ppm when I set it and it crept up to about 450ppm over the course of the week. I didn't have any RO water avaialable so I let it go as it was a real slow rise, but at 450ppm I had to go ahead and make the call and I went out and bought 50gallons of water although I didn't really have the time with the holidays around. 

I refilled the reservoir and set the ppm at 300ppm (My RO Water is less than 10ppm) and now it initially dropped to 280ppm and it's staying steady there now. I'll try bumping them up over the course of this week to 350ppm. They seem to just slightly burn the tips @ 450ppm, but I'm sure that was completely depleted of N by the point I changed it. I haven't flushed that reservoir since the start if I recall correctly. The holidays are definitely the busy season around this place. That's behind me now so I'll be right on top of doing it at two week intervals. When they are so little and don't absorb so many nutes going more than 2 weeks hasn't really ever had an ill effect, from here out that'll be a different story. To maintain proper balance I'll keep right on top of it.

I'm actually going to be doing some work on this today and I'll be moving these plants to their final destination. They are going to move to the flowering tent early and go on a veg schedule under either a 600w HPS or 400w MH, haven't decided yet.

I'm going to use my 4" ventilated hood for the single 600w HPS that's in the floewring tent and I'll buy a new Can -33 filter for it. I'm going to move all my 6" stuff to the current veg closet and I'll use it and my Can-66 filter to cool and scrub the 2x 600wHPS I'm going to put in there shortly for my Soil vs. Hydro side by side grow.

I already have all of the stuff for the hydro side, so this week I'll run to the hydro store to pickup 2x 600w lights and hoods and I'll pickup FFOF, Happy Frog, FF Tiger Bloom, GrowBig and Bloom Big.

I haven't decided on whether I should get clones of this FI to use or just run to the dispensary and pickup some dank clones....decisions....decisions.

I'm generally quite the procrasinator (aren't all us potheads that way?) so I'm happy to be getting an early start. I have like 150l of hydroton to clean and bunch to dispose, trays to clean, reservoir to drain and clean and I need to pick up some equipment. 

I'm hoping to have a great winter and bang out plenty from my setup so that hopefully come summer I can cut either completely off and chill for a few months or I can proceed with some more side by side action....I'm thinking LED vs. HPS 600w comparison for summer, but it's a long ways off so I'll stay focused on what's in front of me.


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## laserbrn (Dec 26, 2009)

Today was a busy day. Completely cleaned down the flowering tent today with a 1:30 bleach solution. Cleaned out the reservoir and the trays (that had previously been FILLED with hydroton) and it was a disaster. Hydroton can really be some nasty stuff, I might start seeking alternatives for the future. I moved the plants into the flowering tent after all the scrubbing and cleaning and got everything setup and in place.

I took the glass out of the light and cleaned it today....filthy as hell, always gotta remeber to do that pretty often.

I will clean out the old veg area tomorrow and get it all prepped up for the next project. 

The plants are still looking good and growing strong. Shouldn't be long before I start taking clones to find sexes on these plants. Oh and they are now under the 600w HPS light.


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## LOSTCOASTLOCAL (Dec 27, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Today was a busy day. Completely cleaned down the flowering tent today with a 1:30 bleach solution. Cleaned out the reservoir and the trays (that had previously been FILLED with hydroton) and it was a disaster. Hydroton can really be some nasty stuff, I might start seeking alternatives for the future. I moved the plants into the flowering tent after all the scrubbing and cleaning and got everything setup and in place.
> 
> I took the glass out of the light and cleaned it today....filthy as hell, always gotta remeber to do that pretty often.
> 
> ...


 Nice thread, it's well done! I have Fucking Incredible finishing right now (last two weeks) and it's better looking then any pic I have evr seen of it... I am going to rename it Jaw Fucking Dropper... Grown in a vertical aero system... The light from top and bottom mixed with cold night temps really sets this strain in motion


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## madcatter (Dec 27, 2009)

A couple of pages ago some one suggested keeping good notes... that is invaluable... the stuff I have learned from mixing nutes to plant spacing to ventilation to watering to planting to mixing my soil mix... the list goes on and on... this grow is muchbetter than my previous one... I think I made every nooby mistake you could... and this time I am much more dialed in... But the results will be in the quality of the smoke of the final harvest and the quantity. I am willing to sacrifice a few gramsper plant to get the taste I want. Finished strong with molasses last time... this time I am going to try a few girls wilh a sweetener... I came, I saw, I grew some great ganja...


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## laserbrn (Dec 27, 2009)

Taking notes is always a good idea. 

For some reason every day my plants droop really bad. It's odd and I haven't been able to really put together what causes it, but every day they perk up and droop down. It seems like they droop near the end of the light cycle. I have modified my water schedule to water less and less, but the drooping doesn't seem to go away. 

I've never personally experienced this myself although I've seen it other people's journals and never seen an answer as to why some plants do this. I removed a watering cycle this morning to make sure it's not overwatering and it didn't seem to have any effect. It's been 6 hours since they were watered and they are still drooping. They will go lights out in about 4 hours and they will still be droopy at that point. When the lights come back on they will perk back up and stay perked up for about 8 hours and then start to droop again. 

It's pretty odd, but the leaves just go limp and sort of Lay Down" the way that they do during lights off. It's pretty odd and I'm now back down to watering 2x a day for 15 minutes which seems way too little, but I was watering as much as 15 minutes every hour and I haven't seen a difference in this behavior while slowly changing the schedule from one extreme to the other so I have to conclude it is not related to watering.


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## HookedOnChronic (Dec 27, 2009)

hey laser loving all the info, curious when ur doin the soil vs hydro side by side


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## laserbrn (Dec 27, 2009)

HookedOnChronic said:


> hey laser loving all the info, curious when ur doin the soil vs hydro side by side


Well Xmas broke the bank a little bit and I need to get some equipment so I need to start squirrel away some cash. Shouldn't be long, I'm going to get started on cleaning and I'll try to pick up at least one light next week. I have what I need to get them started vegging, but setting up this whole second room will probably cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,000 so I need to start accumulating things so it doesn't seem like such a hit.

I'd say it will be starting in January though, I won't let it drag on too long, I need this cold weather to pull it off.


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## HookedOnChronic (Dec 27, 2009)

ohhhh well man u gotta have them in the same room to make the comparison fair....in my opinion atleast 
u should just throw one in soil and add it to your tent if u have space? or make space if possible? easier then spending 2 grand lol but i do agree with saving money lol always a good idea

honestly though im just thankful your posting a grow for this strain by this company. so thanks and ill smoke one for ya


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## laserbrn (Dec 27, 2009)

HookedOnChronic said:


> ohhhh well man u gotta have them in the same room to make the comparison fair....in my opinion atleast
> u should just throw one in soil and add it to your tent if u have space? or make space if possible? easier then spending 2 grand lol but i do agree with saving money lol always a good idea
> 
> honestly though im just thankful your posting a grow for this strain by this company. so thanks and ill smoke one for ya


The side by side comparison will be in the same room. An 8'x3' room with 2 -600w lights. One 600w light over the hydro tray and one 600w over the soil pots. I couldn't make it any more equal.

I'm really baffled here by the daily drooping...Nobody has any experience with this? It's driving me freakin' crazy, I've played with the watering schedules, everything from 1x/hour to 2x per day and everywhere inbetween. I don't think it's related to watering anymore at all. It happens at the same time everyday and it's consistent as shit. They seem to droop starting about 3/4 of the way through the light cycle and perk up almost immediately at lights on. Very strange, it's like they know the day is coming to an end and start to rest.


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## woodsmaneh! (Dec 28, 2009)

Hope you find out what it is. I had no problems like that. I'm in coco and pro mix. Just to keep you going here are some pics of FI at 65 days.

Enjoy


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## madcatter (Dec 28, 2009)

That is somegood looking meds you got going there...


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## Fditty00 (Dec 30, 2009)

Sorry to hear bout ur girl lettin Kirby in! I have the same rules.


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## corykindbud (Dec 30, 2009)

nice tent setup man i just built one myself for 12 bucks.


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## laserbrn (Dec 31, 2009)

Thanks on the tent. $12.00 is a pretty sweet deal. 

The Kirby vacuum cleaner guy thing is still under my skin man. I'm going to go smoke a bowl and shoot some pool and try to relax, stupidity really makes me question everything.

Anyway, I got some new photo's, still in veg, not to exciting, but they are coming along. The drooping has me concerned still and you can see the one on the far right here is a little droopy a few hours of lights on. I'll try to get a picture of them while droopy, I'm wondering if it's because my reservoir is 59 degrees which is a bit on the cold side. I've always used rockwool which would is a little more forgiving than bare roots in the hydroton. I'm also not adding oxygen to this reservoir so I'm going to get a heating element and good size air pump/air stone combo tomorrow and throw that in there, see if it improves the situation. Neither of these should really be causing this little droopy cycle, but they stand to be addresses and corrected regardless.


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## chb444220 (Dec 31, 2009)

wow.. im liking this journal alot soo far.. im jumping on board!! i just checked out kindseed.com too.. not a bad site.. just a bit oricy.. idk.. i cant see payin a $200+ for some seeds.. i forget what other website i was on.. it mighta been bcseed or something like that.. but they had fucking seeds that were $1,000-$3,000!!!!!! thats fucking INSANE!!! i dont care if your rich and got alotta money... $3,000 for 5 female seeds.. thats fucking BULLSHIT!! and i read a forum about some dumbass who actually spent 5 grand there ordering 10 seeds.. and when they came.. they were all crushed.. well i think 1 or 2 seeds were still ok.. but still!!! and they wouldnt give him his money back....... lol. ok.. kjust thought id share that with you guys.. lmao. kk. well plants are lookin great. im goin to go check out ur white widow thread now.


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## HookedOnChronic (Dec 31, 2009)

laser, maybe it is strain related
another thought i had is your growing in hydro, so what would cause them to perk up late? underfeeding?
to much water in resovoir?? imma hydro noob so that might sound like a dumb thing to say, soil plants droop when overwatered though i do know that


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## laserbrn (Dec 31, 2009)

HookedOnChronic said:


> laser, maybe it is strain related
> another thought i had is your growing in hydro, so what would cause them to perk up late? underfeeding?
> to much water in resovoir?? imma hydro noob so that might sound like a dumb thing to say, soil plants droop when overwatered though i do know that


It might be strain related, the only other time I've seen this is when someone was growing in soil and they had the pots on the cold concrete floor and it was keeping the roots cold and when the temps would drop a little the plants would droop, but that doesn't seem to be the issue here. I got the res temp up a little bit and they are still doing it. I think these plants just know when their "day cycle" is coming to an end and they droop down prematurely. 

I've tried everything with the watering as it was the obvious first place to check, but it didn't help either, so I'm going to oxygenate the water and increase my waterings.

The plants couldn't look healthier when the lights come back on and the day is just starting so I'm not going to freak out over it anymore.


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## wonderblunder (Dec 31, 2009)

Hey not trying to threadjack. 
I am looking at those atmospheric controllers. My portable AC has an electric start and must be reset every time it shuts off, is there anyway to hook that up for cooling?


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## terrorizer805 (Jan 1, 2010)

When you planning on flipping the switch?


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## glassblower3000 (Jan 1, 2010)

dude, when the lights are on the leaves naturally perk up it's called positive topism...then when the plants are getting closer to the night cycle they relax, or rest.....it's completely normal...it's when your plants are always drooping then there is a problem.p.s nice grow btw!


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## HookedOnChronic (Jan 1, 2010)

haaaah honestly laser, the genetics are TOO stable for your likings maybe  gets an early start on resin production lol


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## laserbrn (Jan 1, 2010)

glassblower3000 said:


> dude, when the lights are on the leaves naturally perk up it's called positive topism...then when the plants are getting closer to the night cycle they relax, or rest.....it's completely normal...it's when your plants are always drooping then there is a problem.p.s nice grow btw!


Thanks for the words of encouragement, I've definitely seen that before. This is EXTREME and was just causing me some worry, but I feel confident everything is in order and this plant goes through it very dramatically (probably just due to it's really broad leaves). I'll take a picture right now, and then I'll take another one tomorrow and show you what I mean. One looks like thriving healthy plants and the other looks like plants on the verge of death.

Pretty dramatic, but like I said all seems well. I'll probably take a clone from each plant tonight to put under 12/12 and get these all sexed. Hopefully they root pretty quickly, otherwise I'll just have to go with it. I have no idea how many males I have here, kind of an annoying way to go about this.


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## laserbrn (Jan 2, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> Thanks for the words of encouragement, I've definitely seen that before. This is EXTREME and was just causing me some worry, but I feel confident everything is in order and this plant goes through it very dramatically (probably just due to it's really broad leaves). I'll take a picture right now, and then I'll take another one tomorrow and show you what I mean. One looks like thriving healthy plants and the other looks like plants on the verge of death.
> 
> Pretty dramatic, but like I said all seems well. I'll probably take a clone from each plant tonight to put under 12/12 and get these all sexed. Hopefully they root pretty quickly, otherwise I'll just have to go with it. I have no idea how many males I have here, kind of an annoying way to go about this.


I forgot to take non-droopy pics, but I just put some up the other day so you should get the idea...here's some pictures about 2 hours before lights out. So the lights are still on, but the day is coming to an end for them.


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## laserbrn (Jan 2, 2010)

On another note I believe I'm starting to see some preflowers on a few of the plants...I think I've already spotted a male, but I'm not ready to kill it off just yet. I'm debating if I should clone them to determine sex or just flower them and remove the males and leave 2 clones of each behind. That would be my normal method as I would really only keep the genetics from the best flowering female.

I don't want to not fill my space, but if I get only say 2 females these plants will be too small and if I have 6 females they would be about right. I don't like this growin' with non-fem seeds or clones. It really can gum up the works pretty good. I'll cut clones regardless, but I'm inclined to wait until they perk up tonight.


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## speedyseedz (Jan 2, 2010)

how often do they droop like that?


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## smokingrubber (Jan 2, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> On another note I believe I'm starting to see some preflowers on a few of the plants...I think I've already spotted a male, but I'm not ready to kill it off just yet.


Do you have a camera that can take a close picture of the preflower for us? I have not thought to look for preflowers on mine. They are all fem seeds, and one dude would really screw up my whole scenario. This late in the process, thats scary!


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## laserbrn (Jan 2, 2010)

speedyseedz said:


> how often do they droop like that?


Daily....I'll take pics when the lights come back on and you'll see the difference. It's a daily droopage and it does seem to be around the light schedule. I know it's normal behavior, just seems so dramatic, but I'm gonna let it go, all else seems well.



smokingrubber said:


> Do you have a camera that can take a close picture of the preflower for us? I have not thought to look for preflowers on mine. They are all fem seeds, and one dude would really screw up my whole scenario. This late in the process, thats scary!


I can take a close up when they perk up and the lights come on so you can see. I've NEVER gotten a male from a feminized seed, a hermie yes, but full on male not so much.


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## terrorizer805 (Jan 2, 2010)

???????????


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## laserbrn (Jan 2, 2010)

terrorizer805 said:


> ???????????


As promised. The first pictures are of the plants a couple hours after the lights came on, the others are close ups of the plants causing me the concern.

I believe there's 3 of 8 that look like this and the others have female preflowers or nothing showing.


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## mikegreenthumb (Jan 2, 2010)

those three close ups look male to me for sure bro one look like its bout to open


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## laserbrn (Jan 2, 2010)

mikegreenthumb said:


> those three close ups look male to me for sure bro one look like its bout to open


These plants are on 18/6 light schedule so I doubt they will open, but I'm going to go ahead and pull them from the room, I don't think they can possibly be females at this point...Pretty obvious call to me, just surprising...this strain is seeming to be pretty fucking incredible....crazy shit everywhere.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 2, 2010)

Yeah ballz for sure! There is nothing around to pollinate so I doubt it could do any serious damage if you waited another week before making the final decision. How many do think are likely dudes?


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## laserbrn (Jan 2, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Yeah ballz for sure! There is nothing around to pollinate so I doubt it could do any serious damage if you waited another week before making the final decision. How many do think are likely dudes?


I killed the most obvious one. It didn't have a prayer of being a female, and it was just a straight up dude. I only have 1 other that is looking like a male already, the others like I said either look female or no sex showing yet. These plants have a onen week gap in their developement which is showing it's ugly head again. I'm about 85% sure I'm going to flip to 12/12 tonight and just go with the flow. I'm taking some clones right now and I'll decide while I do that. I hate overgrowing a grow space, but I've underfilled the last couple of grows and I don't know how many females are really going to be in this bunch. If it's 8 of the remaining plants then I'll be MORE than good, if it's 4 I'll be way under...tough spot. I guess it's not that big of a sweat, I'll have clones and I'll grab the strongest mother for the next grow if I only get a couple of females I guess. Gambling with something so valueable and important is kind of a crazy game. I've always used fem. seeds and clones so it's a new feeling.


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## laserbrn (Jan 3, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> I killed the most obvious one. It didn't have a prayer of being a female, and it was just a straight up dude. I only have 1 other that is looking like a male already, the others like I said either look female or no sex showing yet. These plants have a onen week gap in their developement which is showing it's ugly head again. I'm about 85% sure I'm going to flip to 12/12 tonight and just go with the flow. I'm taking some clones right now and I'll decide while I do that. I hate overgrowing a grow space, but I've underfilled the last couple of grows and I don't know how many females are really going to be in this bunch. If it's 8 of the remaining plants then I'll be MORE than good, if it's 4 I'll be way under...tough spot. I guess it's not that big of a sweat, I'll have clones and I'll grab the strongest mother for the next grow if I only get a couple of females I guess. Gambling with something so valueable and important is kind of a crazy game. I've always used fem. seeds and clones so it's a new feeling.


Okay, I identified each of the 9 remaining plants and took 2 clones from each. Each clone was marked with it's donor and I will continue to veg my plants. I am going to flush the reservoir again tomorrow and refill with veg nutes and setup for at least another week of veg, some of the plants aren't quite large enough for my liking. Hopefully these clones will root quickly (7-10 days) and I can have an answer as to sex's withing a couple of weeks. I'll take more and more cuttings from these and I'll probably use them for my side by side hydro vs. soil grow. I just can't see buying clones when I'm in situation where I need to keep these plants as short as possible. 

I topped plant #5 and I may go ahead and top the rest of them tomorrow and take the clones. This plant judging by it's pheno will not grow big ass donkey dick buds, so I think topping will help to keep them bushy and to try to get maximum yield.


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## Jerry Garcia (Jan 3, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> I killed the most obvious one. It didn't have a prayer of being a female, and it was just a straight up dude. I only have 1 other that is looking like a male already, the others like I said either look female or no sex showing yet. These plants have a onen week gap in their developement which is showing it's ugly head again. I'm about 85% sure I'm going to flip to 12/12 tonight and just go with the flow. I'm taking some clones right now and I'll decide while I do that. I hate overgrowing a grow space, but I've underfilled the last couple of grows and I don't know how many females are really going to be in this bunch. If it's 8 of the remaining plants then I'll be MORE than good, if it's 4 I'll be way under...tough spot. I guess it's not that big of a sweat, I'll have clones and I'll grab the strongest mother for the next grow if I only get a couple of females I guess. Gambling with something so valueable and important is kind of a crazy game. I've always used fem. seeds and clones so it's a new feeling.





laserbrn said:


> Okay, I identified each of the 9 remaining plants and took 2 clones from each. Each clone was marked with it's donor and I will continue to veg my plants. I am going to flush the reservoir again tomorrow and refill with veg nutes and setup for at least another week of veg, some of the plants aren't quite large enough for my liking. Hopefully these clones will root quickly (7-10 days) and I can have an answer as to sex's withing a couple of weeks. I'll take more and more cuttings from these and I'll probably use them for my side by side hydro vs. soil grow. I just can't see buying clones when I'm in situation where I need to keep these plants as short as possible.
> 
> I topped plant #5 and I may go ahead and top the rest of them tomorrow and take the clones. This plant judging by it's pheno will not grow big ass donkey dick buds, so I think topping will help to keep them bushy and to try to get maximum yield.


Thanks for the updates laser...everything sounds like its going well.

Looking forward to your hydro vs. soil side by side deal too.

It seems like you're so torn with what to do regarding sexing and cloning and overgrowing and 12/12...I know the feeling! Like you said, it's a tough thing to gamble with...I'm sure you'll make the right the call though. Keep on keeping on!


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## smokingrubber (Jan 3, 2010)

It will take about 2 weeks to see roots on those clones (safe bet). Rockwool doesnt go as fast as a clone machine imo. Then 7-10 days to see sex? That's about 20-25 days or so from now before you know sex. Are the plants mature enough to sex? Do they ALL have alternating nodes?

I have a feeling they may be too boo-coo by that time.


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## laserbrn (Jan 3, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> It will take about 2 weeks to see roots on those clones (safe bet). Rockwool doesnt go as fast as a clone machine imo. Then 7-10 days to see sex? That's about 20-25 days or so from now before you know sex. Are the plants mature enough to sex? Do they ALL have alternating nodes?
> 
> I have a feeling they may be too boo-coo by that time.


I have a feeling it's going to be the case also. So it's really going to depend on how fast these in veg grow and how fast the clones root.

Clones take an average about 14 days to root for me, sometimes as little as 7, sometimes as long as 21 or even longer, but usually somewhere between 10-18 days.

If these plants are enormous by then I will flower these plants and I will keep the clones from all of the females. If the plants are still manageable I will flower the clones to determine the sex's of the plants and that should happen within another 4-7 days.

With the cuttings I have given myself the option to reevaluate next week basically and see where I stand. I also give myself the opportunity to confirm the success of the clones before flowering the current plants and eliminate the chance of losing this strain.


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## laserbrn (Jan 4, 2010)

Alright, I've topped all of the plants as well. I've had a theory for awhile now that if you top a plant, but remove one of the growing tips it will promote the growth of "donkey dick" buds as the root structure is strong and the plant is more mature so a shorter plant can produce a top cola like you see from tree grows. The extra stem size and root structure should provide the top with a lot more energy.

Normally with topping the idea is to get more main cola's, but my purpose is solely to keep a strong, mature plant short. But I don't want to have lots and lots of little buds, I still want a BIG cola so I am trying this on 4 of my plants and the other 4 have been topped in the traditional style with 2 new tops.

There are currently 8 plants left (killed another male off this morning) so here are the pics (they are a little droopy because as we've been over, they do this before the end of their light cycle).

Should be interesting and it gave me 8 more clones to deal with, so 3 of each now.


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## DST (Jan 4, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> Alright, I've topped all of the plants as well. I've had a theory for awhile now that if you top a plant, but remove one of the growing tips it will promote the growth of "donkey dick" buds as the root structure is strong and the plant is more mature so a shorter plant can produce a top cola like you see from tree grows. The extra stem size and root structure should provide the top with a lot more energy.


Very interesting journal laserbn...kept me from doing my work - oops.

Also intrigued with your theory about topping and then removing one of the tips. I may just try that on one of my girls.

Keep up the excellent work. Happy growing and medicating.

Peace, DST


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## laserbrn (Jan 4, 2010)

DST said:


> Very interesting journal laserbn...kept me from doing my work - oops.
> 
> Also intrigued with your theory about topping and then removing one of the tips. I may just try that on one of my girls.
> 
> ...


It's just a theory and I just don't like regular topping because it sorta "spreads the love" around the plant and I still want a dominant top. It's just a theory right now and this would be the early stages of "playing around" with it a bit.

I won't go touting that it's the best thing ever or that it works, just sharing with others the fact that I'm trying something. I don't swear by or endorse this method, it could VERY well be a complete waste of time. I NEEDED to shorten up my plants this time and didn't want multiple tops on all of them so it gave me an opportunity to try it.

"We wish to pursue the truth no matter where it leads. But to find the truth, we need imagination and skepticism both. We will not be afraid to speculate, but we will be careful to distinguish speculation from fact." - Carl Sagan


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## Jerry Garcia (Jan 4, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> "We wish to pursue the truth no matter where it leads. But to find the truth, we need imagination and skepticism both. We will not be afraid to speculate, but we will be careful to distinguish speculation from fact." - Carl Sagan


I just received a small coffee-table book entitled "100 things you're not supposed to know" and one of them is that Carl Sagan was an avid marijuana-smoker! Awesome...


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## glassblower3000 (Jan 4, 2010)

looks good..how are the roots check the roots from the male and see if thy're bound...you might need to transplant...again excellent grow, real tidey!!!


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## laserbrn (Jan 4, 2010)

glassblower3000 said:


> looks good..how are the roots check the roots from the male and see if thy're bound...you might need to transplant...again excellent grow, real tidey!!!


Good call!!!!!!!!! I have a male sitting in my sink. I'm off to lunch right now when I get back I'll yank it up and see how the roots are looking. Great fortune I didn't just kill it like I did the first one....+rep sir


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## warisnottheanswer (Jan 5, 2010)

lookin good my dude! i think ill try that topping trick too to see if it works


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## laserbrn (Jan 6, 2010)

I fogged the tent today with a pyrethron fogger to ward off the bugs and bad guys. I generally do this during the last week or two of veg and repeat it again at the end of the first week of flower (before the flowers start to show) to avoid problems down the road. Once it gets late into flower it's too hard to control and this preventative measure has always saved me from having to spray my buds or even worry about...no problems with bugs since I started doing this.


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## snutter (Jan 6, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> Thanks on the tent. $12.00 is a pretty sweet deal.
> 
> The Kirby vacuum cleaner guy thing is still under my skin man. I'm going to go smoke a bowl and shoot some pool and try to relax, stupidity really makes me question everything.
> 
> Anyway, I got some new photo's, still in veg, not to exciting, but they are coming along. The drooping has me concerned still and you can see the one on the far right here is a little droopy a few hours of lights on. I'll try to get a picture of them while droopy, I'm wondering if it's because my reservoir is 59 degrees which is a bit on the cold side. I've always used rockwool which would is a little more forgiving than bare roots in the hydroton. I'm also not adding oxygen to this reservoir so I'm going to get a heating element and good size air pump/air stone combo tomorrow and throw that in there, see if it improves the situation. Neither of these should really be causing this little droopy cycle, but they stand to be addresses and corrected regardless.


What??? Kirby vacuum guy came in?? Why can't I find where you wrote about this on the thread? I'm subscribed and can't seem to find it. I'm just curious is all. Don't want my chick to make the same mistake, if it was a mistake or what ever...


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## laserbrn (Jan 6, 2010)

snutter said:


> What??? Kirby vacuum guy came in?? Why can't I find where you wrote about this on the thread? I'm subscribed and can't seem to find it. I'm just curious is all. Don't want my chick to make the same mistake, if it was a mistake or what ever...


https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/287922-wtf-so-difficult.html


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## snutter (Jan 6, 2010)

i was just going through the back pages and couldn't find what you posted about it dude, that's all. I take another look... No need to get pissed about it man.. I even did a search on the word kirby and didn't find anything. Just some one saying, "sorry to hear about the kirby guy." and you replying something like, "yeah, still pissed, gonna smoke a bong hit and shoot some pool." - or something like that. But not the whole story. I was just wondering what the whole story is. If you posted it in this thread, then I'll take another look. I'm sure I'll find it.


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## Barron (Jan 7, 2010)

snutter said:


> i was just going through the back pages and couldn't find what you posted about it dude, that's all. I take another look... No need to get pissed about it man.. I even did a search on the word kirby and didn't find anything. Just some one saying, "sorry to hear about the kirby guy." and you replying something like, "yeah, still pissed, gonna smoke a bong hit and shoot some pool." - or something like that. But not the whole story. I was just wondering what the whole story is. If you posted it in this thread, then I'll take another look. I'm sure I'll find it.


Ha he's not mad that's the link to the story


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## HookedOnChronic (Jan 7, 2010)

hahaahahahahahahahahah, click on WTF is so difficult as buddy said its a link to the story 
hahahahahahahhahahh thats priceless

so laser your topping em and removing one of the tops on every one of em?


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## laserbrn (Jan 7, 2010)

snutter said:


> i was just going through the back pages and couldn't find what you posted about it dude, that's all. I take another look... No need to get pissed about it man.. I even did a search on the word kirby and didn't find anything. Just some one saying, "sorry to hear about the kirby guy." and you replying something like, "yeah, still pissed, gonna smoke a bong hit and shoot some pool." - or something like that. But not the whole story. I was just wondering what the whole story is. If you posted it in this thread, then I'll take another look. I'm sure I'll find it.


haha...I wasn't pissed at all, that was the name of the thread, I just posted a link to it.


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## laserbrn (Jan 7, 2010)

HookedOnChronic said:


> hahaahahahahahahahahah, click on WTF is so difficult as buddy said its a link to the story
> hahahahahahahhahahh thats priceless
> 
> so laser your topping em and removing one of the tops on every one of em?


On half of them I did that, on the other half I left both of them. Right now it's 4 and 4 and I don't see much difference yet, but it's only been a couple of days.

After topping the leaves have started looking kinda shitty and things are turning south a bit with the plants so I'll have to start looking into what's causing that. 

I pulled up the male that I pulled and the roots were healthy and there was PLENTY of room left, not rootbound in any way at all. They should have plenty of room in these pots.


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## snutter (Jan 7, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> haha...I wasn't pissed at all, that was the name of the thread, I just posted a link to it.


ah. well that's probably why I couldn't find it in this thread... heheh. right on, I'll look for it that way then.

and you sounded pissed with "WTF is so hard about it?" It was the "what the fuck" part that you sound pissed. hahahha. It's all cool man.

the grow is looking good. I've been trying to figure out reasons for the wilting leaves at the end of the light cycle like you've talked about though... I've never heard of such a thing. Just really friggin weird man. I've been surfing the web and shit too trying to see if I could find any info for you, but nothing concrete so far.

have you got it figured out yet??


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## snutter (Jan 7, 2010)

Barron said:


> Ha he's not mad that's the link to the story





HookedOnChronic said:


> hahaahahahahahahahahah, click on WTF is so difficult as buddy said its a link to the story
> hahahahahahahhahahh thats priceless
> 
> so laser your topping em and removing one of the tops on every one of em?





laserbrn said:


> haha...I wasn't pissed at all, that was the name of the thread, I just posted a link to it.





laserbrn said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/287922-wtf-so-difficult.html



oh, hahahah...you assholes...have a good laugh on me guys...LOL!!! Ok, that is really funny! Good one dude. I'm seriously sitting here feeling like an idiot stoner now. Everyone else figures it out but me... Too funny dudes!!!

Ok, fuckit. another bong hit and a beer for me, and then I'll go read the story.

I'm still laughing. Hope you all had a good laugh too....and that you realize i meant "assholes" in the nicest way possible!!! 

-S


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## laserbrn (Jan 7, 2010)

snutter said:


> oh, hahahah...you assholes...have a good laugh on me guys...LOL!!! Ok, that is really funny! Good one dude. I'm seriously sitting here feeling like an idiot stoner now. Everyone else figures it out but me... Too funny dudes!!!
> 
> Ok, fuckit. another bong hit and a beer for me, and then I'll go read the story.
> 
> ...


I haven't resolved that issue yet and I don't know what's causing it. But the male I left sitting in my sink for a few days DID NOT WILT while sitting there. I don't know WHAT the fuck to think on that front. It seems to actually be less severe now so I have to think it's oxygen deprivation at the roots, but I'm still unsure. 

I had a SUDDEN ONSET Cal/MG problem though over the past couple of days I guess. All of my leaves are developing brown spots and starting to twist/curl. I switched RO waters and this one must have zero cal in it so I picked up some cal-mag plus, should straighten out the problem. It was just sudden as fuck! Hydro can be so unforgiving...


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## OpTikPhiber (Jan 7, 2010)

Sorry but that was funny  a lil lol never hurt anyone! ...a few days ago I too was also wondering about the comment toward the kirby salesman....I was sitting here thinking, "what did she screw him, did he find buds, what?" Damn women!


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## Barron (Jan 7, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> Hydro can be so unforgiving...


I know what you mean man. I had a Cal/Mg problem on my plants early on and didn't think they were gonna make it! I added some Cal mag and everything turned around for the most part. Good luck!


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## laserbrn (Jan 7, 2010)

Barron said:


> I know what you mean man. I had a Cal/Mg problem on my plants early on and didn't think they were gonna make it! I added some Cal mag and everything turned around for the most part. Good luck!


Yeah, I'm sorry this is happening guys, I'll get it straightened out and we can get these things flipped over to 12/12. You guys all agree on the Cal-Mag solution right? I've been around long enough, but this is the worst I've ever seen it this fast. I just checked the calibration on my ph meter and it's all good so I gotta think this is it. Shouldn't be anything causign a lockout so we'll see if it gets better over the next few days/weeks. It looks worse than it is because I JUST topped these plants so now the lower leaves are the upper looking leaves if ya know what I mean. Some of the new growth is showing it and that sucks, but I'm sure they'll grow through it. I hate these kinds of problems, but every strain is so different and I never seem to want to grow the same shit...haha.

I have 20+ good looking cuttings that are seemingly happy thus far. At least another 8-10 days to see roots on those easy, but I know when I grow them to use freakin' Cal-Mag from the start. That's the kind of lesson I always seem to learn from a first run with a strain.

Now I know exactly what these plants need in veg, flower should be an adventure once we get there.


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## snutter (Jan 8, 2010)

I don't know man... Cal/mg, are you sure??? I mean, it's important nutrient during veg, but NOT one of the big ones... I have such a hard time thinking that is the problem. But, I don't remember what type of nutes you're using...are they low on the cal/mg? In that case, I could totally understand it. And the leaves are showing what looks to be that type of problem when I look at the FAQ diagnoses chart...

But here's what I was thinking....

The wilting leaf problem....The ONLY thing i can think of is lack of oxygen to the roots. You've ruled out almost everything else. Yet, your system should be delivering enough oxygen with the setup you have going. My figuring is that during sleep they need less, and so they bounce back. and then 3/4 of the way through the light cycle, they aren't getting what they need. at the same time I was thinking that while they suffer for the oxygen they need, it's causing a problem with nitrogen getting to the plant as well, and thus the browning of the leaves.

Now, I'm no expert problem diagnoser....this is just the thoughts I've been having. I've been thinking about your problem a lot more than you probably know, dude. I want to see you have a VERY successful fucking incredible grow!!!

Anyways, I will continue to research your problem and I hope that between every one at this site, we can get it whipped!!! Until then I think you should go ahead and try the cal/mg and see where that gets you....Maybe that is it. Let's hope so, brutha!

-S


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## snutter (Jan 8, 2010)

shit. I just typed a long message and lost it!!! god damn it!!


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## snutter (Jan 8, 2010)

oh wait, it posted above my last "god damn it" message... weird!!! sorry for the extra 2 posts, people!!!!!!


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## laserbrn (Jan 8, 2010)

snutter said:


> oh wait, it posted above my last "god damn it" message... weird!!! sorry for the extra 2 posts, people!!!!!!


Haha, no worries.

I would normal not jump to cal/mag and wouldn't want to do anything "rash", but adding CalMag Plus isn't rash and it sure is presenting like an MG Deficiency. The nightly wilting I've eliminated everything from so I'm going to go with it being related to the normal process for the plant. I KNOW the roots are getting lots of oxygen and the male I pulled up showed no signs of root rot, the roots were bright white (except where they were slightly tinted from the nutrient solution). The rockwool cube was moist, but not wet, everything was really in order in the root zone. I have played with the watering cycles more than enough to eliminate that causing the problem and with the use of hydroton it's nearly impossible to starve the roots of oxygen. 

At the rate they developed the "MG symptoms" it will be obvious whether or not this has helped or hurt the problem. The plants turned on me over just a day or two so whatever is causing it is fairly severe.

I am using Advanced Nutrients Grow A&B and have in the past had some slighlt MG problems using RO water, but honestly nothing this fast. The current state of the plants isn't dire, they are still fairly healthy with only really one leaf amongst the entire 8 plants being remarkably damaged, it's just the rate at which it's occruring that is troubling not really the extent of the damage thus far. The recovery should be prompt and noticeable after a few days (in all of the growth) if the problem was a simple lack of MG.


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## laserbrn (Jan 9, 2010)

Cal-Mag Plus seems to have corrected the problem. The leaves are of course still damaged, but the damage seems to have stopped spreading and the new growth looks mean and green again. All will be well soon, they are just starting to turn the corner in recovery from the topping, I've noticed that you lose about a week by doing it and they seem to be right about on that track.

The cuttings look really good, no yellowing or wilting as of yet, I suspect they will root just fine and survive. I have 23 clones and I don't know yet how many are female which is an odd feeling.


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## TCurtiss (Jan 9, 2010)

Glad to hear things are going back on track for you

Good luck from here!!


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## laserbrn (Jan 9, 2010)

TCurtiss said:


> Glad to hear things are going back on track for you
> 
> Good luck from here!!


Thanks....I'm just really surprised how fast they turned south. I live about 35 min. from the nearest hydro store. I realized on the first day that hmmm "I need to pick up some Cal-Mag" and by the second day it was "What the fuck? I REALLY need to pick up some Cal-Mag quick!". 

I get off of work about an hour before the hydro store closes and it's 35 minutes from my home, about 45 minutes from work. If I get held up at all leaving the office it's not a good gamble to try to make it there. I had to go at lunch and pick that up and it seems to have saved the day.

I think it was just the combination of topping and having the calcium deficiency that made it look SO bad. All of the upper "newer growth" from the time are my pretty, green and mean, clones and the lower, older growth that was more damaged became the new tops of the plants so the problem juts SEEMED to have spread reallly quickly.


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## snutter (Jan 9, 2010)

So glad to hear it lazerbrn!!! So glad...  Good job, brutha!

Well, now all we need is an update with some pictures.. We'll all be waiting...

-S


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## grodrowithme (Jan 10, 2010)

laser if you do use cal-mag be sure to add it to your rez first before anything else. and stir it up really good. if not and it mixes with your other nutes it will be useless after the mix if its a cloudy/milky color you know it went bad. this rule also goes for a couple of other additives like wiltz or nowiltz when you take cuttings and spray them the run off will go in your water and turn it milky NO GOOD if and when you do your nute mix just make sure it dont get milky or cloudy


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## smokingrubber (Jan 10, 2010)

Is a milky mix no good as in dump and do over or add more shit? That's rough when you're dumping 40 gallons of RO water (and another 160 gal waist water).


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## laserbrn (Jan 10, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Is a milky mix no good as in dump and do over or add more shit? That's rough when you're dumping 40 gallons of RO water (and another 160 gal waist water).


I've never come across any information to suggest that Cal-Mag Plus would go bad if added to the reservoir after the other nutrients. What is the science behind that? Any links or reference information? It seems odd that this would happen looking at the list of what it contains.


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## grodrowithme (Jan 10, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> I've never come across any information to suggest that Cal-Mag Plus would go bad if added to the reservoir after the other nutrients. What is the science behind that? Any links or reference information? It seems odd that this would happen looking at the list of what it contains.



we were having some problems and when we told the guy at our local grow shop thats what he told us. u dont have to do it first but it is better if you do. if you do at it after just make sure everything is stirred up really good before adding it. no links but if you want to see it work just get a big ass glass bowl put water in and just a couple of oz's of everything to it and waatch it turn to a worthless chemical that your plant cant use in any way but to help it die. and then do it the way i said in above post and you will have a good mix. he said it wouldnt do it to every single nute company out there it just depends on who and what other additives you use. i learnt by losing 96 plants


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## laserbrn (Jan 10, 2010)

Somebody requested pictures of the recovery. Here's a picture from just a few minutes ago....The new growth seems vigorous again and the plants look good and healthy. I'll let them recover a bit more, my clones should be rooted in the next few days and I'll put them under 12/12 to identify the females ASAP! I assure you this WILL be underway very, very soon.


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## terrorizer805 (Jan 11, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> Somebody requested pictures of the recovery. Here's a picture from just a few minutes ago....The new growth seems vigorous again and the plants look good and healthy. I'll let them recover a bit more, my clones should be rooted in the next few days and I'll put them under 12/12 to identify the females ASAP! I assure you this WILL be underway very, very soon.


Those are looking sexy, i'm liking those fat leaves.


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## snutter (Jan 11, 2010)

looking very good, dude. good recovery on your part!!!

-S


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## laserbrn (Jan 12, 2010)

snutter said:


> looking very good, dude. good recovery on your part!!!
> 
> -S


Thanks guys....I just switched to 12/12 this morning. So this will be their first 12 hour dark period. I took 3 clones from each plant so in theory as long as I can get at LEAST 4 females I should be good to go. 

The plan here is ALL based upon how many females I get. If I get 4 females I'll probably put the 400w back in this reflector and flower them under that. Then I'll use the 600w + an additional 600w for the side by side grow (hydro vs soil) in the other space.

If I should be fortunate and get 6 or more I'll keep them under this 600w and I'll pick up 2 more 600w's per the original plan. So please, oh please let there be females!


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## hamanu23 (Jan 12, 2010)

I need to learn how to subscribe to this!


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## laserbrn (Jan 12, 2010)

hamanu23 said:


> I need to learn how to subscribe to this!


Congratulations, you are subscribed.


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## TCurtiss (Jan 12, 2010)

Nice job man, looking for the cheerleaders

Bring out the babes!!!


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## snutter (Jan 13, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> Thanks guys....I just switched to 12/12 this morning. So this will be their first 12 hour dark period. I took 3 clones from each plant so in theory as long as I can get at LEAST 4 females I should be good to go.
> 
> The plan here is ALL based upon how many females I get. If I get 4 females I'll probably put the 400w back in this reflector and flower them under that. Then I'll use the 600w + an additional 600w for the side by side grow (hydro vs soil) in the other space.
> 
> If I should be fortunate and get 6 or more I'll keep them under this 600w and I'll pick up 2 more 600w's per the original plan. So please, oh please let there be females!


I have a really good feeling here man... ALL females!!!  heheh. The power of positive thinking!! I'm definitely sending the good vibes your way, brutha!

-S


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## DST (Jan 13, 2010)

Hey Laserbrn, I just switched to 12/12 on Sunday. Good luck with getting those ladies!!!

Peace, DST


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## laserbrn (Jan 13, 2010)

DST said:


> Hey Laserbrn, I just switched to 12/12 on Sunday. Good luck with getting those ladies!!!
> 
> Peace, DST


 
Good shit. I'm almost caught up on your thread, haha. I've been traveling alot and home very little so I haven't used RIU as much as I'd like. I've posted some updates here when I have a chance, but I haven't done enough reading lately.

I wish the best for you too brotha, hopefully some bountiful harvests in our near future.


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## DST (Jan 13, 2010)

here here bru, seems like a lot of RIU peeps have been switching over to 12/12 this week. Very exciting, I think March is gonna be terrific!!!


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## laserbrn (Jan 13, 2010)

DST said:


> here here bru, seems like a lot of RIU peeps have been switching over to 12/12 this week. Very exciting, I think March is gonna be terrific!!!


I've noticed that. And I've noticed the quality of the threads I'm following currently all seem really good. Very nice setups and very nice looking plants across the board. Very similar setups also, lots of tents beings used now. I remember when they were taboo because of the outgassing issues and when they were a bit too expensive. The cheap ebay tents seem to have filled a gap in the market. 

I've felt like a bit of shlub around here with the issues I've had to deal with and years of growing experience. But I've often noticed that it's not only the ability to grow from start to finish without problems (which is always great), but also being able to adapt quickly and make the right changes and choices and I at least feel like at every choice and critical decision point I made the right move thus far and my girls haven't lost much if anything in the way of time or health. I have 25+ clones from these and they are going into flower healthy and happy and on schedule. Now I'm going to let the genetics do THEIR part in making this grow something special.

I can't believe I have to start my next grow so soon...I hadn't really thought much about it and it just kind of hit me. It's not the lights, it's the soil, but I'm planning a run to the hydro store so I'll pick up some Happy Frog and I'll grab some Solo cups.


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## DST (Jan 13, 2010)

I know what you mean, I was telling my bru that it would be 10 weeks, and he was like, What? But that flies past IMO, perhaps that's just with getting older, lol!! I had the misfortune of having a clone disater and lost 6 months of good work on my Headbands, and had to start again, so planning is essential to eveything. As you say Laserbrn, the girls in a lot of ways do this themselves. It's nice to have a trouble free grow, but also nice to know there is help not a click away if you get stumped. Peace out and happy shopping at the hydro store (now don't let those Female shopping chromozones take over and come out of there with things you don't really need, LMAO (I do it all the time)

DST


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## laserbrn (Jan 13, 2010)

DST said:


> I know what you mean, I was telling my bru that it would be 10 weeks, and he was like, What? But that flies past IMO, perhaps that's just with getting older, lol!! I had the misfortune of having a clone disater and lost 6 months of good work on my Headbands, and had to start again, so planning is essential to eveything. As you say Laserbrn, the girls in a lot of ways do this themselves. It's nice to have a trouble free grow, but also nice to know there is help not a click away if you get stumped. Peace out and happy shopping at the hydro store (now don't let those Female shopping chromozones take over and come out of there with things you don't really need, LMAO (I do it all the time)
> 
> DST


It's odd, but flowering for me doesn't seem that long anymore. I think because it's at least finite. In veg I often get really antsy just because I don't know how long it's going to take. I know with flower it's probably going to be 8-10 weeks, maybe 12 on a longer running strain. At least that's a finish line and I actually constantly lose track of what week I am in. Have to double check every time I go to check on things.

And once these are "off to flower" I'll be working on the veggin of the next set for the side by side comparison. That project seems like a lot of fun to me so I suspect the flowering of these will fly by pretty quickly.


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## DST (Jan 13, 2010)

Exactly, flowering, you got your time (almost) set. And you can busy yourself with tending and running other projects (or in my case, working on my real business that pays the bills.)


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## MatanuskaValley (Jan 13, 2010)

how can i subscribe to this?

im so sorry i just saw that I am not supposed to post in grow journals please forgive a newbie my friend it wont happen again.


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## MatanuskaValley (Jan 13, 2010)

MatanuskaValley said:


> how can i subscribe to this?


subscribed!! I have been waffling on this strain for a while and your grow will end when my next one is about to begin so THANKS for keeping a grow journal!!!!!

Alaskan

im so sorry i just saw that I am not supposed to post in grow journals please forgive a newbie my friend it wont happen again.


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## laserbrn (Jan 13, 2010)

Oh man, no worries. I don't mind if people post in my journals. I like to keep it a place to have rolling discussions about my grow. If you have any questions or you want to see something just let me know I'm always willing to share. 

I often look back at my successful grow journals and evaluate how I fixed problems in the past so I tend to include information that I know nobody cares about, but I will in the future. Like about Cal-Mag Plus and the tap water experiment in the beginning, just puttin' it all down so I can look at it later.


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## MatanuskaValley (Jan 14, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> Oh man, no worries. I don't mind if people post in my journals. I like to keep it a place to have rolling discussions about my grow. If you have any questions or you want to see something just let me know I'm always willing to share.
> 
> I often look back at my successful grow journals and evaluate how I fixed problems in the past so I tend to include information that I know nobody cares about, but I will in the future. Like about Cal-Mag Plus and the tap water experiment in the beginning, just puttin' it all down so I can look at it later.



Man hell yeh thats an awesome way to go about it. especially with hydro.


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## laserbrn (Jan 14, 2010)

MatanuskaValley said:


> Man hell yeh thats an awesome way to go about it. especially with hydro.


Well, the clones were cut about a week ago adn they are ready so I went out and picked up some supplies. The next grow journal (they often overlap) is now underway and it is going to chronicle my journey through a side by side comparison grow of Soil Vs. Hydro just as promised.

Here is a link to the thread also as promised: 

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/292671-hydro-advanced-nutrients-vs-soil.html#post3658980


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## Fditty00 (Jan 15, 2010)

Clones are ready! Put one in the the party cup grow. Today is last day for entry.


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## laserbrn (Jan 15, 2010)

Fditty00 said:


> Clones are ready! Put one in the the party cup grow. Today is last day for entry.


Oh yeah! Post a link, I'll get in today! My clones just started popping new roots and I already bought all the stuff, no reason not to enter, except I don't know the sex's of my plants yet. It still counts if I leave them in the clone tray for now and have the cup "on the ready" right?


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## Fditty00 (Jan 15, 2010)

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/285725-pcc-offical-update-thread.html#post3561616

bout 60 or so entries. Good luck!!


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## tom__420 (Jan 15, 2010)

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/285065-party-cup-competition-18.html

Today is the last day to enter so I would post in that thread with your info and you should be good to go

In this thread (https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/285725-pcc-offical-update-thread.html) you can post pic updates


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## laserbrn (Jan 16, 2010)

tom__420 said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/285065-party-cup-competition-18.html
> 
> Today is the last day to enter so I would post in that thread with your info and you should be good to go
> 
> In this thread (https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/285725-pcc-offical-update-thread.html) you can post pic updates


Alright I'm in brotha...I posted the other day My clones are rooted and I'm sure I'll have a couple of extra.

I have evalutated the plants and they are JUST starting to show sex. From my educated guesstimate this far based upon the evidence I'm going to guess 6 females and 2 males out of the bunch. None of them are really far enough along to make a definitive call, but two of them are suspect right now and the other 6 are showing definite signs of promise (pistils). so while I wouldn't call anything this early we should have definite answers in the next couple of days. I think 6 would be about perfect at this size for this space so I'll be happy with that. It would also give me the perfect setup for my next grow with 6 hydro and 6 soil each under 600w lights. It would just make things nice and easy.


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## laserbrn (Jan 16, 2010)

Alright Picture Update and I flushed my reservoir and got it setup for flower. As I usually do I left it on Sensi Grow for the first week of flower instead of switching to bloom and using bud blood.

I am using a 20 gallon reservoir so this is all based upon 20 gallons....

Sensi Bloom A & B = 90ml - 300ppm
Cal-Mag Plus = 112.5ml - 100ppm
Big Bug = 75ml = 100ppm
CarboLoad = 80ml
Hygrozyme = 160ml

My ppm is right at about 500ppm and I'll see how that is over the next couple of days. I don't usually note all of the details, but I figured I would this time so A) I can look back at it and B) I can evaluate the entire overall cost of growing FI on this grow for nutrients. I try to evaluate everything and I want to see how much it all costs.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 18, 2010)

Looking good! You should be able to pick out the dudes by now, what's the final tally?


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## laserbrn (Jan 18, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Looking good! You should be able to pick out the dudes by now, what's the final tally?


Oh yeah, I was right, 6 girls 2 dudes. Dudes are dead now and so are the clones.

Six seems like it'll be a good fill for this space and under these 600w lights so I'm pretty satisfied with that.

That makes six for each soil and hydro and six leftovers (2 of which are already entered in the Party Cup Competition).

I'll probably just throw the 4 'leftovers' into the flowering tent and flower them little bastards...tiny and all, just 4 extra little lollipops a couple of weeks behind. I'll prop them up on something probably right smack dab in the middle, we'll see.


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## laserbrn (Jan 19, 2010)

1 week of flowering:

6 Females that all look really healthy and good thus far. 

-Stretching was significant this week. 

-Plants have shown sex definitivetly.

-No signs of Nitrogen deficiency, very green growth from top to bottom.

-Canopy is nice and even, only need to 'supercrop' one plant during the week to keep it's head down a little bit.

Note: Six plants was perfect at this size. I believe that if this growth continues for another week these six plants will fill the entire space.


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## Mr. Leafy (Jan 19, 2010)

Truly Amazing Stuff!

I bow to you sir...You are the Man!


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## tom__420 (Jan 19, 2010)

Filling in nicely laser, great work
I saw in the first post you said you were using Advanced Nutrients Sensi 2 part, Bud Blood, Big Bud, and Overdrive
Is this still the case? How many ppms you running at the moment?


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## laserbrn (Jan 19, 2010)

tom__420 said:


> Filling in nicely laser, great work
> I saw in the first post you said you were using Advanced Nutrients Sensi 2 part, Bud Blood, Big Bud, and Overdrive
> Is this still the case? How many ppms you running at the moment?


I do not run Bud Blood anymore. I have the current details on my ppm on post #290. Nothing has changed since then , it was just a couple of days ago.


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## DST (Jan 19, 2010)

Glad the numbers worked out for you Laserbrn, looks like it will be nice and cosy in there for sure. perfect fit. Good luck with your Party Cup entry, will check that thread out. Seems like fun.

Peace, DST


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## warisnottheanswer (Jan 23, 2010)

your girls look real happy! u seem to be dialed in!


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## terrorizer805 (Jan 24, 2010)

Looking good!


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## sogrow (Jan 24, 2010)

Very Nice.....Always wondered about that strain.....Subscribed


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## TCurtiss (Jan 24, 2010)

Very nice keep it up !!!


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## laserbrn (Jan 24, 2010)

TCurtiss said:


> Very nice keep it up !!!


Thanks guys/gals (don't want to be presumptuous). Things are moving along as would be expected. Things should start getting aweful exciting here very soon. I'm startin got get pretty excited, very fortunate with the number of females and all of the plants are healthy and happy, mean and green. I don't remember exactly what day I'm on...(I'll double check tonight), but I'm guessin' about 2 weeks in. Should start really seeing some flowers form over the next week and then things will really get going.


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## DST (Jan 25, 2010)

Hi Laserbrn, 2 weeks tomorrow by my calculations (your a couple of days behind me) And everything is looking Fucking Incredible! 
I am still waiting for 1 mango to sex itself in my cupboard, the other one is def showing signs of having nut sax (it's currently in my kitchen awaiting it's sentence. Hopefully the one left will be a little girly. The male mango was also the bigger and stronger looking plant! Bummer.
Well good that all is going well for ya, will stop by in the not too distant future for another cuppa.

Peace,

DST


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## laserbrn (Jan 25, 2010)

DST said:


> Hi Laserbrn, 2 weeks tomorrow by my calculations (your a couple of days behind me) And everything is looking Fucking Incredible!
> I am still waiting for 1 mango to sex itself in my cupboard, the other one is def showing signs of having nut sax (it's currently in my kitchen awaiting it's sentence. Hopefully the one left will be a little girly. The male mango was also the bigger and stronger looking plant! Bummer.
> Well good that all is going well for ya, will stop by in the not too distant future for another cuppa.
> 
> ...


Thanks....take the time to check out the roots on your male. It will give you a lot of insight into your next grow and whether you feel you had enough space, didn't, the overall health of the roots, etc.

I have read your entire thread and it looks like things are working out in that space pretty nicely for you.


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## glassblower3000 (Jan 27, 2010)

lovin it!!!!


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## terrorizer805 (Jan 28, 2010)

Lookin good laser


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## notoriousb (Jan 28, 2010)

glad I caught this grow before things start to get real interesting

scribed


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## MatanuskaValley (Jan 29, 2010)

notoriousb said:


> glad I caught this grow before things start to get real interesting
> 
> scribed


Boy you said it!! No hijacking this thread, everything here is plenty interesting to keep our attention!!


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## laserbrn (Jan 29, 2010)

Thanks again guys/gals, things are shaping up to take off here pretty soon. Should see some real flower developement over the next 7-14 days and beyond that I'm hoping to see some real characterstics from this strain coming through.

Plants look good and healthy, they are a little hungry for nutes, but I'll be flushing and resetting the reservoir again tomorrow. The water level has run pretty low this week and they drank a retarded amount of water, I'm not exactly sure how much as I wasn't paying much attention, but I topped up the reservoir enough times to warrant a flushing.

Anyway, here's this weeks progress, I'll try to post pics on Fridays from here out.

Again, thanks for playing.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 30, 2010)

Lookin healthy! You're still a good 3 weeks from real porn, but it's exciting to see their characteristics develop. These are all the exact same type of correct? How many pheno variations can you spot this early?

Any stank yet?


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## TCurtiss (Jan 30, 2010)

Looking good Laser keep it up, I am at about the same spot with my grow maybe a week ahead of you

I am very interested in this strain to see if it lives it to its name

Stay green Laser, Stay green - from the Outsiders


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## laserbrn (Jan 30, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Lookin healthy! You're still a good 3 weeks from real porn, but it's exciting to see their characteristics develop. These are all the exact same type of correct? How many pheno variations can you spot this early?
> 
> Any stank yet?


Yeah, it'll be at least a couple weeks it's actual porn, but I will have a lot better idea of pheno's etc. in about 2 weeks.

Right now things all look pretty similar across the plants, seems like the strain is pretty stable and I'm not seeing a wild variation in pheno's thus far. But like I said it'll be at least 2 more weeks before I have any real idea.


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## DST (Jan 31, 2010)

Hey Laserbrn, looking good in the FI room. bushy and healthy looking girls. Thanks for the update. My 2nd Mango was another boy, bugger. 2 out of 2. I knew my luck had ended when all my Cali O's turned out to be fems. Ah well. Kept both the boys for the time being for some potential experiments.

have a chilled Sunday. Peace, DST


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## tonymontana187 (Jan 31, 2010)

I decided for my first grow to try burmese x fucking incredible im at day 45 of veg and about to flower. I only got 7 plants out of 10 3 never sprouted I hope for a good number of females like you got. Ill be watching yours to compare, great journal.


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## homegrownboy (Feb 2, 2010)

Looks fuckin incredible man...good job.

My next grow is going to be F.I...lucily though i live close to the actual seed bank supplier so it's no problem getting the seeds. It's an awsome strain with a good high, hope you actually got the real strain..you'll be as pleased as fuck...lol!


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## laserbrn (Feb 5, 2010)

homegrownboy said:


> Looks fuckin incredible man...good job.
> 
> My next grow is going to be F.I...lucily though i live close to the actual seed bank supplier so it's no problem getting the seeds. It's an awsome strain with a good high, hope you actually got the real strain..you'll be as pleased as fuck...lol!


Thanks for the words of encouragement guys/gals.

Here are some update pictures, we are now @ day 24 so fairly early in the flowering cycle still.

Things are looking like they are going to be pretty good. It's kind of crazy but they seem to be exhibiting a little N deficiency so if I know to keep the N up a little more for a little longer. They really grew quite a bit of foliage even during the "stretch" phase. At this stage I'm not going to do anything more about it as Sensi 2 part has plenty of N in it. Other than a few leaves anyway, the plants look rather good and as long as that doesn't progress quickly I'm not going to get myself all worked up about it.


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## homegrownboy (Feb 5, 2010)

Have you regularily flushed the plants? You could just have a lock-out.


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## laserbrn (Feb 5, 2010)

homegrownboy said:


> Have you regularily flushed the plants? You could just have a lock-out.


Flush the plants? What do you expect me to do? These plants are growing in hydro.


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## TCurtiss (Feb 5, 2010)

Those are looking real good there Laser, I hope you get the N thing worked out

I may break down and get some seeds, how many week did you wait until you flowered them from seed?


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## laserbrn (Feb 5, 2010)

TCurtiss said:


> Those are looking real good there Laser, I hope you get the N thing worked out
> 
> I may break down and get some seeds, how many week did you wait until you flowered them from seed?


You'd have to count backwards from here. Or just look back at when they sprouted and now and subtract 3 weeks and 3 days for flowering. I'm too lazy to look right now. 

The N problem isn't as big a problem as it looks like the pictures. Again, the leaves are just huge fat motherfuckers so one yellow leaf looks like a huge deal.


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## TCurtiss (Feb 5, 2010)

They look huge


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## laserbrn (Feb 6, 2010)

For just 24 days into floweer they are very substantial. I expect that FI is at the very least a good yielder. All of these plants have many tops so I don't think we'll see giant donkey dick buds, but the overall yield I'm expecting to get very close to 1lb. I wasn't sure at first, but I can see that these plants are going to just explode with growth.

I have my feedings pretty light right now as well, they are @ about 700ppm right now. This seems to be where the water level and nutrient level fall at the same rate. They look a little hungry so this weel I'll bump them up again to 800ppm and see what the reaction is. When I tried them that high previously the ppm started rising daily and quickly so I dropped it, but the plants are obviously growing and so are their needs.


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## HookedOnChronic (Feb 6, 2010)

fuckin eh! time is flying, day 24 already, those are some fat buds, you shoulda kept the hydro vs soil going, who says its a crap strain, might pump out some potent shit


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## 323cheezy (Feb 6, 2010)

hey laser... our plants are the same age ....
We both sprouted our seedling on the 16th of november.....
give or take a couple days.....
That is why i subscribed.....
Somehow im a couple weeks ahead in flower... u must have vegged longer....
But those girls look damn good for 26 days in flower.....Great node spacing bernie!
My setup is not as advanced as yours..... i do soil and only have a crumbumb 400hps and a t5.....
if u want to check it heres a link.....
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/273251-grow-part-iii-og-grape.html


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## fdd2blk (Feb 6, 2010)

now i'm watching.


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## laserbrn (Feb 6, 2010)

HookedOnChronic said:


> fuckin eh! time is flying, day 24 already, those are some fat buds, you shoulda kept the hydro vs soil going, who says its a crap strain, might pump out some potent shit


I technically haven't stopped it. I transplanted the 6 soil plants into their pots and they are still sitting right next to the hydro plants. I never disconnected the pump on that side so the hydro plants are still growing and are getting ready to take off. I have a friend that is planning to come pick them up, but if he ends up flaking today I might just fuckin' do it. I know it might all be for not, except I still won't have to grow over the summer and I'll have something to smoke. So officially it's still postponed but in reality it's still going and I might just finish it through. My tax return came already and I have the money for the lights, carbon filters and ventilation. I'll waste the same $$$ doing one summer grow on additional A/C costs. 

I want to add 1400w to my current setup and run it through the winter for 12 hours/day.

My portable A/C runs & 1800w and would need to stay on DAMN near the entire 12 hour cycle to grow through the summer. Add on that I run my A/C quite a bit to keep my place cool while I'm home and the tiered billing and I'm just shooting myself in the face by not growing in the winter and stocking enough to not have to grow in the summer.

Fuckin' summer electric bills were hittin' 500 bucks/mo just to grow with my 600w setup and not have to roast to death in my 2 bedroom apartment. 

Fuck, that's retarded now I'm running about 1000w (veg and flower) and I'm planning to run 1800w (3x flower, no moer veg) and finish it all up by the end of april and be done until fall/winter again. I'm currently paying $280/mo about for the electricity on this place and I expect it'll go up to about $350-$400 when I run 3x 600w for flower and I'll have to run it like that for 2 months for flower so it'll be $800 in electricity bills (including my living) for 2 months and I'll grow 2.5lbs (goal) instead of 2 summer months where I pay $1000 and I get 13oz's? Lights fuckin' pay for themselves in one year and I don't have the extra headache of growing all summer.

Add on that I could rent that room out for 5 months @ $600-$700/mo and it's lookin' like the only way to go. I don't have to, but I can and I won't always live in this apartment. It gives me the option to move into a house in June when my lease is us up too because I don't have a grow I'm worrying about at the time. It's just win - win - win. This was a long rant, that DP White Widow is still kickin' me in the balls after all this time smokin' it, damn.

Long story short....If the guy doesn't show up and take the hydro clones tonight I'll buy 2 new lights and finish the hydro vs. soil. If he does come by I'll give him the hydro plants (he needs something for his setup) and I'll finish the soil plants BEHIND this grow in this tent and I'll quickly find some clones for myself to do the side by side within 30 days. Regardless it'll happen, and there's a good chance it still continues on from where it was and we're well underway.


Edit: I can't believe I ranted that long and delete it before hitting submit....haha, fuck it, this is my thread.


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## homegrownboy (Feb 6, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> Flush the plants? What do you expect me to do? These plants are growing in hydro.


 
Ha ha don't i look like a fool....lmao. True stoner moment!


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## Fditty00 (Feb 6, 2010)

I go away for a minute, come back, and Buddage all over the place! Good shit Laser


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## DST (Feb 7, 2010)

Very nice laserbrn. I am also running parallel to you at the moment with flowering times I think.


Peace, DST


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## laserbrn (Feb 9, 2010)

The yellowing is spreading as I'm just starting the 5th week of flower. It seems to be yellowing in the middle leaves of the plant. I've checked the ph and it's all good. I double checked my pumps to make sure I wasn't watering too often and found I might be watering to seldom. I added another watering cycle bringing it to watering 5x per day for 15 minutes each time. The problem almost looks like it's root related, but the roots look healthy and not slimy or jacked up.

Today is 28 days (start of week 5) so it's time to flush the reservoir and to reset everything and use Overdrive for a couple of weeks.

There is a very good chance this plant is just really underfed as I had the ppm @ 700ppm and they grew very vigorously this past week. I bumped it up to 900 last night although I'm flushing it tonight. After this flush there isn't a whole lot more that I can do so hopefully they hold out and make it to the end. It's also not every plant, it's really 2 of the 6 and they are going really yellow while the others are staying green, consequently it's the two largest plants. So I'm trying to strike a balance and I'm still confident this is going to be good shit. I don't know why people have abandonded this strain at least thus far, it certainly LOOKS really good, but have to wait until the end for the final verdict.


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## fdd2blk (Feb 9, 2010)

add a little nitrogen.


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## DST (Feb 9, 2010)

hi laserbrn, I hear you on your yellowing leafs, both my Casey Jones are yellowing quite rapidly as well. I have started to give them extra feeds now so lets hope they come through ok. It all started happening when i changed my MH out for an HPS bulb. Hope yours work out, on a positive note, perhaps a good sign of the fat buds to come....
Peace,

DST


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## laserbrn (Feb 12, 2010)

Oh man, everything on the lower part's of the plants has gone limp. I'm leaning towards Pythium (sp?) now which sucks. The plants are pretty lifeless and I don't think that they'll end up making it. Of course I'll see it through as far as I can, but it seems almost pointless now.

I've never had to deal with this myself, but I know it's near impossible to reverse it. My temps are good and the roots get plenty of oxygen so I don't know how it started, but it's almost certainly what's going on now.

I cut the water pump so make sure it's not just some overwatering (should know in about 12 hours. 

You can see how much damage it's done in just a week so I'm fairly sure it's the culprit. I just don't understand how I could've gotten root rot with all this hydroton. I'm watering 4x /day and perhaps that's too much because of the rockwool cubes in each pot. 

anyway here's pictures, they were growing pretty nicely until this all of a sudden popped up. When I saw the leaves last friday I though it could be root related and tried using hygrozyme, but I know that once it starts it's very difficult to control or reverse it.

Any insight into a course of action would be appreciated.


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## HookedOnChronic (Feb 12, 2010)

so basically this strain droops like a fucker?

they look like they are trying to finish up as trippy as that sounds, what do u think? is it past day 30?

they will make it if they are close to the end, how crystally are they?


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## HookedOnChronic (Feb 12, 2010)

and try what FDD said at the top of the page


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## laserbrn (Feb 12, 2010)

HookedOnChronic said:


> so basically this strain droops like a fucker?
> 
> they look like they are trying to finish up as trippy as that sounds, what do u think? is it past day 30?
> 
> they will make it if they are close to the end, how crystally are they?


Yeah, they are drooping like a motherfucker! That's what's pointing me in the direction of root rot, the yellowing leaves, the necrosis, and the drooping. Without the drooping I don't necessarily know it's root rot, I have mesh-bottom pots and the roots on the bottom look healthy and good. 

I think I know what is wrong with this entire setup and I'm going to avoid making this mistake the next time around. The 4x4" rockwool cubes are too low in this pot, either need bigger pots or smaller cubes. The floods are reaching up to the rockwool cubes and they are retaining WAY too much moisture. So the plants are watering 4-5 times per day (which I'd like to do more) and the bottoms of the roots are drying out in between. The tops are in a giant mushy rockwool soaked cube and are prone to problems. 

I've cut my watering completely off (dark cycle) and I'll leave them that way for a long time to let those rockwool cubes dry out. Once the lights come back on they should dry out quickly. I'm going to lower my my flood levels below the bottom of the rockwool cubes and I'll increase my waterings. 

Strange thing is that the plants do look like they are just trying to finish in the pictures, but that's not how I'm seeing it in real life. 

They are about 4 1/2 weeks into flower at this point and I can't think it's part of the natural senesence at this point. The purpling in the leaves is more pronounced than I thought. I only get to see them with the HPS on the room is otherwise dark so when the lights out I don't see them until I actually see the pictures. They are quite crystally already too, it could be the worlds fastest flowering strain, but it's highly unlikely.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 12, 2010)

Try a H2o2 dunk. Mix up an extra strong batch of water and H2o2, then dunk each plant.
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/how-grow-marijuana/72169-how-do-i-identify-prevent-root-rot.html


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## fdd2blk (Feb 12, 2010)

looks like they need water with a bump of nitrogen.


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## laserbrn (Feb 12, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> looks like they need water with a bump of nitrogen.


That's what I thought too, but I added a watering cycle and it got worse. Generally when they are underwatered they perk right back up, these got worse with more water. There's no leaf curling to indicate overwatering, but I'll follow the advice of fdd2blk here, he's a pro. I'll hook that pump back up and I'll up the watering another cycle and see if it straightens them out. I did change out the reservoir and I didn't put in overdrive or any other bloom enhancers. @ 900ppm now and the nutes are 5.8-5-9.1 which should be plenty of nitrogen.


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## fdd2blk (Feb 12, 2010)

wait, wait, wait, ......


i suck indoors. don't listen to me. i was just guessing and throwing out some ideas. 

over watering can look just the same and i have never done hydro or gotten root rot so i really have no idea. i just always try to go the simplest route first. you would know better than me at this point.


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## Ptone (Feb 12, 2010)

Just a thought. "Hydrogen peroxide is also added to nutrient solutions when there is suspicion that the anaerobic pythium root rot mold has begun to proliferate on the roots' surfaces. The oxygen liberated from the hydrogen peroxide is destructive to single celled organisms and is administered in dosages which vary with the concentration of the peroxide; typically several tablespoons of 3.5% solution per gallon or more; the temporary raising of oxygenation is only minimally damaging to roots while eradicating the water born mold can significantly increase yield or even save a crop's viability."


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## smokingrubber (Feb 12, 2010)

The H2o2 dunk is supposed to help root rot, if that's what the problem is. (Nothing completely fixes it I believe)


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## Straight up G (Feb 12, 2010)

Ptone said:


> Just a thought. "Hydrogen peroxide is also added to nutrient solutions when there is suspicion that the anaerobic pythium root rot mold has begun to proliferate on the roots' surfaces. The oxygen liberated from the hydrogen peroxide is destructive to single celled organisms and is administered in dosages which vary with the concentration of the peroxide; typically several tablespoons of 3.5% solution per gallon or more; the temporary raising of oxygenation is only minimally damaging to roots while eradicating the water born mold can significantly increase yield or even save a crop's viability."


wow great first post welcome to RIU


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## Ptone (Feb 12, 2010)

Straight up G said:


> wow great first post welcome to RIU


Thanks!  Keep an eye out for my First grow Journal 250W HPS OG Kush. Cheers


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## laserbrn (Feb 12, 2010)

Ptone said:


> Thanks!  Keep an eye out for my First grow Journal 250W HPS OG Kush. Cheers


Thanks...I'm going to eliminate simple overwatering and I'll go right now to the hydro store to get some H2o2. If cutting back on watering doesn't solve the problem (I did add a watering cycle this week and they did start drooping this week) then tomorrow I will start using H2o2. It definitely looks like a root problem to me of some sort, but the overall health of the bottom roots just has me thinking maybe not (and the fact that I sure as shit don't want it to be). I've never had problems with root rot, but this is a new system for me (with the buckets) and I've heard that the ebb & grow systems which are similar in a lot of ways can have this problem. the rockwool's too wet, the hydroton is too dry and it's hard to strike a balance. I'm going to use much larger pots next time and I'm going to use 1x1 rockwool cubes only on the next go around. I'm just overall unhappy with rockwool these days. Right now in my head I'm seeing rotte balls of rockwool shit in the middle of these pots and it seems almost like an inevitability at this point. So if drying it out seems to help I'm going to do as I said and lower the flood level and increase the # of floods...decrease the duration of the floods. 

If drying doesn't work, I'll add watering cycles, but generally underwatered plants bounce back with a good watering....the prolonged droop here just leads me to believe it's going the other way.


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## [email protected] (Feb 12, 2010)

Oh no... good luck!


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## JMAR2837 (Feb 13, 2010)

fuckin ey guy learn to grow wtf. you shoulda pissed on em.


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## Straight up G (Feb 13, 2010)

JMAR2837 said:


> fuckin ey guy learn to grow wtf. you shoulda pissed on em.


wow what a pathetic first post from a little bitch


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## laserbrn (Feb 13, 2010)

Straight up G said:


> wow what a pathetic first post from a little bitch


Haha....don't get all bent, that's a guy who I know has a lot of respect for my ability. He's someone that I actually know who think's he's funny.

Here's an update....I decided to apply a bit of the scientific method here because I couldn't decide what to do and something needed to be done. I disconnected my pump and ran a hose to one of the plants so that plant has been getting ridiculous amounts of water while the others have gotten very little water. 

Over the past 12 hours the plant that has received the extra water is doing much better. The necrosis and the limp lower leaves are still present, but I would say much improved. So I've hooked the pump back up the regular way and I'm now watering 10 times/day instead of 5. I dug out on of the rockwool cubes a little bit to see it's moisture level and it's actually bone dry.

So FDD I think you were right, underwatering and a nitrogen bump. The extra nitrogen seems to have drastically slown the necrosis (although oddly enough it burned the leaf tips just a smidge. I think they'll make it through to the ened although it's early to say now, but I'm at 4 1/2 weeks and things seem to be holding on. We'll see how things turn out, but I'm a lot more optimistic now than I was previously, at least I have a REASON to believe that watering 4x-5x /day is too little. The rockwool isn't absorbing as much moisture as I feared.


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## HookedOnChronic (Feb 13, 2010)

those are crazy for 4.5 weeks, if that turns out to be potent smoke then those are wicked seeds


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## Straight up G (Feb 13, 2010)

just seemed way harsh is all someone said the same to me a while ago for real and I will never speak to them again, anyway I gonna stop spazing up your journal ha ha gl


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## laserbrn (Feb 14, 2010)

Straight up G said:


> just seemed way harsh is all someone said the same to me a while ago for real and I will never speak to them again, anyway I gonna stop spazing up your journal ha ha gl


Yeah, he's trying to be funny because he knows this is really bothering me.

So I was starting to get concerned as the plants started to REALLY yellow and they started to look like overall shit and then it hit me....

If you google Fucking Incredible and look at grow journals that are done what do you notice? The plants are all yellow and purple, I can't find one that has finished green (that isn't a cross and even most crosses seem kinda fucked up in the end). 

The buds are growing nicely and I'm determined to work harder on this one for the next grow to see if I can't get them to stay greener longer. They just look like they are 7 weeks old and they aren't yet 5 weeks old but they've perked up and I'm just going to finish them out and keep them as strong as possible as long as possible. 

I'm really curious now to see if anyone has any green solid pictures of FI in flower. I know there were some who subscribed to this thread that have grown it if you have pics of what it SHOULD look like, that would be appreciated.


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## grodrowithme (Feb 15, 2010)

how maky days 12/12 are you? they look about just like they should as far as i can tell in the pics.


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## DST (Feb 16, 2010)

Laserbrn, really hope these girls go through for you. It's funny that you are having this issue. I am growing 2 Casey Jones just now and they have lost quite a few fan leaves of late...to the point where we are having a discussion on the Club 600 about yellowing leaves later in flowering......I think I will maintain what they get until the end as the smell and bud just looks dynamite...

Good luck with it,

DST


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## laserbrn (Feb 16, 2010)

Those pictures were "Friday Pics" and today I'm @ 5 weeks, so I'd say those were day 30-31.

Yeah, DST, I'm on the side of keeping your leaves as green as possible throughout flower. I took a long time growing that foliage and I guess it just pisses me off to see it go. Those are the solar panels for the plants, I already know that I need to do what I can to keep it in check so I have a good solid top canopy to gather light. Soem of my leaf drop is becasue the canopy is thick and light doesn't penetrate, so I'm going to focus on keeping the tops green as can be until the end.


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## I_Miss_OG (Feb 23, 2010)

Laser what ever happened with this grow? the thread just died....


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## laserbrn (Feb 23, 2010)

I_Miss_OG said:


> Laser what ever happened with this grow? the thread just died....


Wow...I haven't updated this thread in awhile!! The plants are sleeping right now, but I'll get some pictures up tomorrow morning. The plants look pretty good, they are now @ 6 weeks of 12/12.


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## laserbrn (Feb 24, 2010)

As promised I have some updated pictures. The leaf drop on these plants was definitely excessive. We're 6 weeks into flower now and heading towards the "home stretch". They aren't massive, they aren't poor producers either, I'll bet I average about 2 zips per plant. Right around 12 - 13 oz's when it's all said and done. No way of knowing just yet, but overall I'm pretty unhappy with this grow. 

I couldn't get the plants happy no matter what I tried and I have two more tries at it coming up now. 

Just for shits and giggles and because I hate repeating history I may actually switch away from Advanced Nutrients for flowering my next set. Not every strain is going to love every formula and these plants were very unhappy and I couldn't seem to get it right. So now I have the plants I hate, the kind with no fan leaves that are just maturing on the stick when they shoulda been growing like gangbusters.

I'll go to the hydro store and see what I can find. Probably just switch to something simple like GH or Canna and see if they perform differently.


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## HookedOnChronic (Feb 24, 2010)

that is some fucked up coloration! but they do look nearly done


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## laserbrn (Feb 24, 2010)

HookedOnChronic said:


> that is some fucked up coloration! but they do look nearly done


I know...it's fucking crazy. I should've taken a close up bud shot, they are quit frosted and the buds seem happy and the calyx's are just starting to swell and start stacking. 

Not too much time left so there's not a whole lot left to do, just basically ride this one out, I'll give them nutes for another week, then I'll start flushing and we'll go as long as they need to go.


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## DST (Feb 24, 2010)

They certainly have a lot more fan leaves than my two Casey Jones girls.....I still think the bud will be very nice there Laser.

Peace, DST


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## Barron (Feb 24, 2010)

You know with all the little problems you had they still look great! Have you ever used Botanicare's line? Im only on my second grow but I really like there products. I'm using there Pure Blend Pro Bloom and Grow along with Liquid Karma and Cal-Mag Plus.


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## tom__420 (Feb 24, 2010)

Barron said:


> You know with all the little problems you had they still look great! Have you ever used Botanicare's line? Im only on my second grow but I really like there products. I'm using there Pure Blend Pro Bloom and Grow along with Liquid Karma and Cal-Mag Plus.


I am using the same nutes with the exception of the grow because I am running a zero veg SoG
Great nutes


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## laserbrn (Feb 24, 2010)

tom__420 said:


> I am using the same nutes with the exception of the grow because I am running a zero veg SoG
> Great nutes


I might have to give that a try. I have ALWAYS been happy with AN's products until these last two grows. I honestly feel I did everything I could to avoid frying these plants, and they are just that...fried.

These buds will turn out just fine, I'm not worried about that. I just want to take another run at it with a different product, I haven't yet determined what I would different if I had it all to do again, and I do. So I'm going to go with a different brand of nutes potentially and see how that goes.


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## laserbrn (Feb 25, 2010)

Alright, I'm now at Day 44 and the plants are chugging along. The tent is actually pretty full and if these buds fatten up over the next 2 - 3 weeks I think it'll actually be quite impressive overall...

Anyway, leaf drop and necrosis is continuing, but not at that drastic a pace, it started so early I figured it would accelerate, but it's really just kinda holding steady. I figure another 2-3 weeks and she'll have lost all of her leaves and at the same time be finished, so it is what it is.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 25, 2010)

Lookin pretty full! What kind of yield estimate do you think (assuming they don't get any bigger). Are the buds rock hard or a little airy?

Based on "so far" would you grow another crop of FI? I'm sure the smoke report will have some effect on that decision, but which way are you leaning right now?


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## smokinmayne (Feb 25, 2010)

it is what it is

gonna get chunky here in the next couple weeks!


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## laserbrn (Feb 25, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Lookin pretty full! What kind of yield estimate do you think (assuming they don't get any bigger). Are the buds rock hard or a little airy?
> 
> Based on "so far" would you grow another crop of FI? I'm sure the smoke report will have some effect on that decision, but which way are you leaning right now?


Based on right now I wouldn't grow this strain again. It's been a rather frustrating run through. I would say based on the buds right now each plant has about 2 oz's on it. I have 6 plants so I'm still thinking 12-13. The buds aren't fluffy, they are pretty dense on most of the plants.

Here's the thing...would I grow this strain again based up on what I've got 6 weeks into it? Maybe...there are a couple of really good plants here and some that are just losers and don't need to be around. 

It's not all done yet, but some look to finish much faster than others. Some look to have more of a "stacking" like indica's do and there are 2 that are "stretchy" like Sativa's and their buds don't connect and stack, but each bud is in it's own right pretty decently sized like a Sativa.

I'm obviously growing it again for my soil vs hydro grow, but after that I'll probably never touch it again. I need to get some seeds ordered up here though real soon to replace these plants when they finish!


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## fdd2blk (Feb 25, 2010)

looks pretty good from here.


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## dieselfan (Feb 25, 2010)

just read 37pgs and they look awesome despite all the problems...hopefully switching the nutes is your answer for the comparison grow!


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## HookedOnChronic (Feb 26, 2010)

looks dank as fuck laser, and almost done.....not a few more weeks to chunk up i dont think


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## smokingrubber (Feb 26, 2010)

It's always a bit of a crap shoot with seeds. I've got more seeds than I know what to do with, even though I want to get to a point that I can keep a mother for clones instead. I thought my problems derived from growing multiple strains at once ... but it doesn't look like growing a single strain is much easier.


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## MatanuskaValley (Feb 26, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> It's always a bit of a crap shoot with seeds. I've got more seeds than I know what to do with, even though I want to get to a point that I can keep a mother for clones instead. I thought my problems derived from growing multiple strains at once ... but it doesn't look like growing a single strain is much easier.


I am growing 7 strains at once for my first grow that way if I fuck one up I still have others that might live. Just makes sense to me.

I do not have the fancy stuff, I am just winging it.

(not trolling subscribed to this thread for months...)


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## laserbrn (Feb 26, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> It's always a bit of a crap shoot with seeds. I've got more seeds than I know what to do with, even though I want to get to a point that I can keep a mother for clones instead. I thought my problems derived from growing multiple strains at once ... but it doesn't look like growing a single strain is much easier.


Looking through all of my notes on feedings and looking and exactly what's happened I would make the assumption (hasn't been tested, so I can't make an assertion) that this particular strain became VERY unhappy when it was fed with higher P fertilizer. When I used Big Bud the leaves started to yellow dramatically and the plant started to experience EXCESSIVE leaf drop. When I flushed that out and switched to straight up SensiBloom the problem slowed WAYYYYYY down and the leaf drop is under control. I haven't actually seen a fully brown crispy leaf in a while. The ones that were 1/2 necrotic have even remained. I ended up pulling some of them because they were pissing me off ( I know I shoulda left'em).

I'm going to switch nutrients on this next one, but in all reality, I think it just can't handle the abuse from high P and K ferts like Big Bud and Overdrive. I didn't use overdrive at all on this grow and things seem to be much better.

The did find it odd the amount that plant fried and burned @ 800ppm! It was @ about 950 w/ SensiBloom, Cal-Mag, and Big Bud and when I switched to just SensiBloom and Cal-Mag @ 800ppm, they burned. Lowered it to 600 and they have been much happier plants altogether. 

So for those out there that might grow this straing with AN's nutes...don't use Big Bud and Overdrive. The plants need more N, at least in the earier stages. 

The next one will be interesting and by the time all of this said and done and spring rolls around I will have grown this strain in hydro twice and soil once. I will have used 3 different brands of nutrients and all else is similar. The rooms are all in the same bedroom, they all have approximately the same space and all under 600w lights. I will have smoke reports on hydro against soil and overall for FI.


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## tonymontana187 (Feb 26, 2010)

I choose to grow the 420 strain from visc and it has been a challenge untill I realized how nute sensative they are I guess Since FI is a cross it inherited that Nute burn issue. My plants looked like crap for a long time major nute burn issues now they are are nice and I backed off 50% on nutes. I think my second run will work out now that I confirmed the nute issue since your also had a similar problem thanks for the info.


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## DST (Feb 26, 2010)

Hi laserbrn, looks like you will have some nice smoke. We always strive to improve but that's a good thing, I am sure you'll still smile and enjoy the first nicely cured bud.

DST


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## laserbrn (Mar 1, 2010)

DST said:


> Hi laserbrn, looks like you will have some nice smoke. We always strive to improve but that's a good thing, I am sure you'll still smile and enjoy the first nicely cured bud.
> 
> DST


Oh, I think I'll smile plenty. I've been smoking White Widow for what seems like ages now. I'll be happy just to smoke something else.

Of course the way I've done it now I'll be smoking FI for a loong time to come.

Day 48:

They still look pretty immature. I haven't started flushing yet as I think these might take awhile. I have to go on a trip the 9th-14th and I might just go ahead and flush then. Switch it to plain water right before I leave and when I get back I'll see how it stands. I was figuring I'd be chopping right before this trip, but it looks like it'll be sometime after.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 1, 2010)

i haven't smoked any GOOD ww in years. i really miss it now.


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## tom__420 (Mar 1, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> Oh, I think I'll smile plenty. I've been smoking White Widow for what seems like ages now. I'll be happy just to smoke something else.
> 
> Of course the way I've done it now I'll be smoking FI for a loong time to come.
> 
> ...


What is your technique regarding flushing if you don't mind me asking


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## laserbrn (Mar 1, 2010)

tom__420 said:


> What is your technique regarding flushing if you don't mind me asking


For this strain I'll flush with plain water for at least a week. It usually ends up going a little longer because I hold out to chop for as long as possible waiting for them to turn "ripe". 

I don't buy all the "flushing" products. Just never been convinced it does shit. Water seems to be a good way to go. I'll probably start them on plain water on Saturday which will be day 53.


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## laserbrn (Mar 5, 2010)

Things turned shitty really fast and I ended up chopping them down last night. 

Here's the deal best I can explain it....

I have a 4x4 tent which the plants were in. That tent had a 4" fan on it to exhaust the heat.

I had an 8x3 closet that I was trying to get my 2x600w lights running in for my soil vs. hydro grow. The temps in that closet were reaching 97+ degrees and I couldn't think of a good way to resolve that problem so I purchased an 8x4 tent.

I setup the tent and got everything running and it was still about 95 degrees with the same fan running slightly more efficient due to the configuration in the tent vs. the closet. Still unacceptable.

The tent is going to need another fan to viable. 

Now here is where the brain started racking. The hydro plants in the soil vs. hydro are sad and small so I don't actually want to burn my 600w lamp over them. I'm going to give them away to a friend to take care of them, reveg them and get them stronger and flower them.

I am going to keep the soil plants going in the 8x4 tent and the plan was to move THESE plants into the 8x4 with the soil plants and take the fan from this tent and put it on the 8x4 tent. Then my 8x4 tent would have to sets of flowering FI about 5-6 weeks apart.

Well, I opened up the 4x4 tent last night and I was looking through the plants....seeds. Not a LOT of seeds, but we were able to easily identify about 5 or 6 and I decided to harvest early. I chopped down the plants last night. I know they didn't get a full flush, but I've never really been a believer that it matters, so now we'll see. I'll give these a good dry and cure and I'll bet they are just fine.

I couldn't put these plants in my brand new tent with my next batch of FI if there's hermies in there. 

What I have to say about FI so far....

Crazy colors in the buds, especially the lower buds. Didn't see the strange purple hues in the tent with the lights on. Pretty looking buds, but overall me and my trimmer/helper both agreed this plant grows A LOT of foliage. I was worried throughout the grow about leafdrop...fuck that, this plant is a goddamn salad. It really grows a lot of leafy matter and I can see why it becomes "fucking mediocre" in the eyes of some people. I can tell straight away it's not the dankiest bud, but really does look good. It will take a smoke report (which is weeks away) to really know, but I don't think I"ll ever grow this again (after the soil ones finish).

I'll be out in search of a different strain, overall I would avoid this one. I had more trouble with this strain than many others, there were 2 plants out of my six that were the actual purplish changing healthy pheno's that ARE worth keeping, the others were pretty regular. Just nothing memorable there, they are bud plants, just eh. 

Thanks again for playing....here's some pictures.

Uhmmm...no guess on yield yet. I have no idea how dense or how fluffy these will be. The plants seriously grew about 80% leaf/bud ration. I've certainly had MUCH MUCH better pheno's.


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## smokingrubber (Mar 5, 2010)

Sorry to hear about the seeds. Don't feel bad, I got em too. (I think someone in my condo complex is growing dude mj plants lol.) It amazing how fast shit can go downhill in the last couple weeks.

Sorry, but it's comforting to know I'm not alone in the hermie boat  And since you have more grows under your belt, I don't feel so noobish!


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## MatanuskaValley (Mar 5, 2010)

great grow anyways was fun to watch cant wait for a smoke report!!


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## HookedOnChronic (Mar 5, 2010)

yea wicked grow man!!

what strain u trying next? 
try a dutch or cali company, i also got pretty leafy nugs off another canadian breeder


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## MatanuskaValley (Mar 5, 2010)

HookedOnChronic said:


> yea wicked grow man!!
> 
> what strain u trying next?
> try a dutch or cali company, i also got pretty leafy nugs off another canadian breeder


I vote reserva privada OG #18
or Matanuska tundra!
or matanuska mist (cause it smells and tastes like mint!)


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## laserbrn (Mar 5, 2010)

Ya know....I trimmed up all of those plants and we didn't see a single seed after seeing them in the tent. I know they are in there and fortunately only a few looked really mature. I didn't see a banana anywhere for sure, but coulda been a few days ago and it's now gone, but regardless, they got chopped. 

This strain was like growing lettuce, it really, really was. Just shit tons of leaves, both fan and most remarkably though pedal leaves. Just shit tons....I have more weight in scraps then buds by a long shot. 

I now actually have to figure something out to do next, but I gotta leave town and won't be back until mid-month. I gotta wait until I get back to solve the cash problem so I can pick up some clones and I already ordering the fan online today that I need to get the 4x4 back up and running. I ordered it using paypal with money I have from selling some other shit.

Like I said, the buds look really pretty and if you are into leaves it had some great looking ones, but I'll be excited to make the move back to SoCal strains for a little bit and I think I'll grow soil on my next few grows. It really was quite a bit easier, except watering does seem to be a little bit of a bitch.


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## MatanuskaValley (Mar 5, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> Ya know....I trimmed up all of those plants and we didn't see a single seed after seeing them in the tent. I know they are in there and fortunately only a few looked really mature. I didn't see a banana anywhere for sure, but coulda been a few days ago and it's now gone, but regardless, they got chopped.
> 
> This strain was like growing lettuce, it really, really was. Just shit tons of leaves, both fan and most remarkably though pedal leaves. Just shit tons....I have more weight in scraps then buds by a long shot.
> 
> ...


Do you have any ideas on what strain you are going to be growing next? Or even just a couple you are considering?


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## HookedOnChronic (Mar 5, 2010)

watering is a bit of a bitch, but i just love the look of soil plants, so beautiful


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## laserbrn (Mar 5, 2010)

I don't have any ideas yet on what strain is coming next. I will probably go to a dispensary and pick something up. I love growing from seed, but I'm running out of cold winter months to get this done so I need the fastest solution possible.


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## homegrownboy (Mar 7, 2010)

Hey Lsr...sad to see you cut those so early...they had at least 2 weeks more to go. I can say that as soon as i can find my SD card for my camera i will have a pic up for you of true F.I. You might be able to tell some similarities, or differences. Like i said...it's the real deal, bought from the breeder himself, so it's a guarantee. This ONE little bitch is so stinky it's ridiculous, my room stinks so bad it's like someone just hotboxed it with some really heavy dank smoke.


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## homegrownboy (Mar 7, 2010)

HookedOnChronic said:


> watering is a bit of a bitch, but i just love the look of soil plants, so beautiful


LMAO!!!!! Stop smoking so much weed...it's actually enjoyable to do it, and the plants respond well to human interaction.


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## laserbrn (Mar 8, 2010)

homegrownboy said:


> Hey Lsr...sad to see you cut those so early...they had at least 2 weeks more to go. I can say that as soon as i can find my SD card for my camera i will have a pic up for you of true F.I. You might be able to tell some similarities, or differences. Like i said...it's the real deal, bought from the breeder himself, so it's a guarantee. This ONE little bitch is so stinky it's ridiculous, my room stinks so bad it's like someone just hotboxed it with some really heavy dank smoke.


 
I'm not too worries about it. They were pretty mature although chopped a little bit early. They could've easily gone a couple more weeks, but with the seeds poppin' up I'd rather just chop'em down.

Overall the strain seems so weak I don't really even care. I'm happy to move on to some other shit. I fly out tomorrow and I'll be back on Sunday night so probably NEXT monday I'll start the search for the next strain and the next project. 

This strain was reported back by many as being pretty weak sauce, I agree it's weak sauce and the guy that helped me trim'em? Not very impressed either. It's not that they aren't pretty, it just doesn't look like bud looks these days. I'm sure it'll be perfectly fine, but I'm going to look for something that's more "fire" than this is. Mediocre bud w/ seeds in it? Ah, no thanks.

And like I said earlier there were 2 plants with really good pheno's that if I had a full tent of I'd probably be very, very happy, but the others were garbage.


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## shnkrmn (Mar 8, 2010)

If you grow fire or you grow schwag, it's pretty much the same amount of work. I'm working on transitioning from schwag but being perpetual, clones keep beating seedlings off the starting line.

I'm not sure I would ever have tried a strain called FI. It would be a hard sell to my people with that name unless it really lived up to it (in which case there would be no need to 'sell' it). This has been an interesting thread though. Thanks.


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## MatanuskaValley (Mar 8, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> If you grow fire or you grow schwag, it's pretty much the same amount of work. I'm working on transitioning from schwag but being perpetual, clones keep beating seedlings off the starting line.
> 
> I'm not sure I would ever have tried a strain called FI. It would be a hard sell to my people with that name unless it really lived up to it (in which case there would be no need to 'sell' it). This has been an interesting thread though. Thanks.


Didn't FI win the cannabis cup?


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## laserbrn (Mar 8, 2010)

MatanuskaValley said:


> Didn't FI win the cannabis cup?


Well, this thread isn't really over, I now have 6 more of them in flower. I don't remember how far along exactly they are, but they are in soil and they look really good. I'm not super pumped on them, but it would take me longer to start over at this point and I now have plenty of space so I may as well finish these out. 

Hopefully these will endure a bit less stress as I added Cal-Mag Plus from the start (what a difference) and other than that they have just been doing there thing. FFOF is great soil and thus far I haven't done anything but water them. at the very first sign of a leaf twist I watered with Cal Mag Plus and they seem to be doing just fine.

So I haven't completely abandoned this strain and that first grow was so rough that I'm not even really sure it was a fair shot at it. So we have no to follow up right behind it and maybe it'll change my mind. The problems I have with the strain though are genetic, I don't think this will solve any of those problems.


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## Fditty00 (Mar 9, 2010)

Back to soil i got lost awhile back with the hydro thing. Always wanted to try it, but I love my soil! Nice table of buds there bro. Very nice


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## DST (Mar 11, 2010)

hey laserbrn...shit happens eh. Nice red hues in those pics but they do look like they lack a bit of substance, Saying that though, the hanging colas look well nice. As I said before, I am sure you'll have a nice grin on yer face after smoking it, always the way with something you make yourself I feel.

Peace and good luck with things to come....whether they be in soil or hydro.

DST


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## 323cheezy (Mar 15, 2010)

i havnt poisted much on this thread ....atleast notfor a hot minute.... sizzle....
but i felt that everytime i past threw this thread bernie trashing his grow and the whole time .....
im thinking this grow is not bad ...not at alll actually it was kinda amazing.... no pun intended....cough
I think you set the highest standards for yourself....
And all in all those buds loook tasty to me....
As for the seeds .... it may have lowered the potency but the beans are not cheap....
You bought a 10 pack u should know......right...smile....
I would have went with a more familar strain....
I looked long and far and havnt seen FI at any club.....
and i think thats why riu chose it....
In conclusion i know how it feels to put all your time and effort into a grow and come up a little short....
However after i released it to my patient the feedback wasnt bad at all,,,,sheesh.....
Remember some people just want to smoke and dont care about all the names and different strains....
Im sure theres a market for that F!
Great work Bernie! + rep


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## laserbrn (Mar 15, 2010)

323cheezy said:


> i havnt poisted much on this thread ....atleast notfor a hot minute.... sizzle....
> but i felt that everytime i past threw this thread bernie trashing his grow and the whole time .....
> im thinking this grow is not bad ...not at alll actually it was kinda amazing.... no pun intended....cough
> I think you set the highest standards for yourself....
> ...


Thanks for the words. I still have a soil batch goin' and I'm thinking about trashing them. I now have the ability to run 3x 600w's and try to start all over. Tomorrow I'm heading to some dispensary's to see if I can find any kind of quality clones. There has to be something out there.


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## DST (Mar 15, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> Thanks for the words. I still have a soil batch goin' and I'm thinking about trashing them. I now have the ability to run 3x 600w's and try to start all over. Tomorrow I'm heading to some dispensary's to see if I can find any kind of quality clones. There has to be something out there.


Good luck with the search Laserbrn, will be tuning in to find out what you decide on.

Peace, DST


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## laserbrn (Mar 15, 2010)

DST said:


> Good luck with the search Laserbrn, will be tuning in to find out what you decide on.
> 
> Peace, DST


The soil plants look really good, but I'm 99% there's a hermie in there and I still don't know which one it is. I'd rather just kill'em off, clean everything down really thoroughly and start over. The bud still looks killer and some parts have more seeds than others. I think I spotted just one nanner after all was said and done, but it was enough to seed a bunch of my bud. Kind of annoying, but plants have seeds sometimes and I guess this strain just really wanted to continue on.


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## smokingrubber (Mar 15, 2010)

Somebody hermied on me, and I didn't know it. GRRRRR. When you tell someone there are a couple seeds in there, they look at you like you're trying to sell them outdoor. Confidence goes WAY down ... all because of one little fuggn uncontrollable nanner.

All of my seeds were Fem, and now I'm reconsidering my opinion on fem seeds. Fuggn sucks! Yours were not fem though, so now I don't know wtf to do.


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## Shrubs First (Mar 15, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Somebody hermied on me, and I didn't know it. GRRRRR. When you tell someone there are a couple seeds in there, they look at you like you're trying to sell them outdoor. Confidence goes WAY down ... all because of one little fuggn uncontrollable nanner.
> 
> All of my seeds were Fem, and now I'm reconsidering my opinion on fem seeds. Fuggn sucks! Yours were not fem though, so now I don't know wtf to do.


I learned the hard way. Do not use Fem seeds. They carry an intersexual gene with
them and are just waiting to fuck you. Everytime I think of my Blue Moonshine,
or Somango I cringe. Those damn beasts.


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## laserbrn (Mar 15, 2010)

Shrubs First said:


> I learned the hard way. Do not use Fem seeds. They carry an intersexual gene with
> them and are just waiting to fuck you. Everytime I think of my Blue Moonshine,
> or Somango I cringe. Those damn beasts.


 
Honestly I'm not that surprised with mine. I had to kill one early on that was a STRAIGHT UP hermie from the start. When it showed sex it had full pistils and full balls....I killed that one really early but I think this strain just isn't stable. There aren't any really good redeeming qualities to this strain except that it looks cool. Two pheno's were good, the rest crap. It grew tons of leaf and no bud, didn't respond well to feeding, couldn't stay healthy and strong, I'm just over it. I think my decision is made...

Tomorrow's going to be a busy day if I can make it happen.


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## sagensour (Mar 15, 2010)

Ive had some dank plants hermie on me. Ive seen bananas as early as 2 weeks bud, but Ive kept them in there and never had a seed. I wouldnt recommend it, but sometimes I take my chances.


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## laserbrn (Mar 16, 2010)

sagensour said:


> Ive had some dank plants hermie on me. Ive seen bananas as early as 2 weeks bud, but Ive kept them in there and never had a seed. I wouldnt recommend it, but sometimes I take my chances.


Alright well, the buds do look pretty fucking incredible. The problem: They are also a bit seeded. I thought I spotted a seed originally and it was the reason I decided to chop and sure enough there are quite a few seeds. Not the worst shit ever and since I smoke my own and don't sell it that part doesn't cost me, it's just annoying. The yield is a little bit lighter than I would've liked at 9 oz's, but I did chop early and the grow was a bit of a mess. I've jarred it all up and I'll get some pics of the buds when I get home. I won't have a smoke report for at least 2-3 weeks so they have at least some time to cure.

The colors are pretty cool looking I guess, although not really my thing. They are quite crystally and have lots of different colors including yellows and purples and even some more reddish areas.

Here are my six soil plants. They have now been flowering for 20 days. They are from clones from the previous batch. I never identified which plant hermied, as a matter of fact I never knew a plant hermied until I saw the seeds. 

These six plants are in a different tent than the previous plants, but the room they are in is probably full of pollen. I'm sure that I'll see seeds around in my next couple of grows, but can't be very many and I'm not going to stop growing. The safest place for my new plants to be is in this new tent where the old plants never were. It intakes from outside and exhausts into the bedroom so hopefully it'll stay relative clear of pollen.

Regardless I think there's a genetic hermie in the bunch and I don't know who it is. It could've been environmental and that's the reason I can't bring myself to get rid of them.

Anyway, I'm going to lay out it for you guys and hopefully you can help guide me and share what you would do.

1) 600w & 4x4 space
The plants are 20 days along and look pretty good. Although the same signs are showing on the lower leaves of one plants. I swear I can tell it's clones from the batch before (one of each plant). I'm afraid there's a hermie in there.

2) 600w & 4x4 space
Empty - This is where the hydro side was that I am having a friend finish off because I want the space back. Those plants were too small and to stay in this space they must be on 12/12 if I keep #1 going

3) 600w & 4x4 space
Empty - This is where the first FI grow was and is full of pollen and needs to be cleaned out. Not a problem, I'll just bleach it all down and get it sterile. Not too concerned with the pollen.

I am moving in 12 weeks bear in mind.

So plan's and their problems...

1) Kill everything I have, sterilize the room. Go to the dispensary pick up all new clones and I have 12 weeks to bang it out. Pretty minimal timeframe, but completely doable.

2) Finish the FI in soil in the closet. Get clones for #3 space and I have 12 weeks to get them done. The FI finishes out in a few weeks and I tear down that tent and prepare for the move. #1 & #2 are retired for the summer (they can't be run over summer due to heat)

I keep flip flopping on what to do. Both are risks. If I can't get #1 done in 12 weeks it's going to be a disaster. It's all lost and I should've at least finished out the FI so I had some smoke over the summer. I could end up pulling 2.5 lbs using scenario 1 though and have a great summer and not have to worry about this for awhile.


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## Pipe Dream (Mar 16, 2010)

hard to say what you should do. Maybe you can identify the hermie when you start breakin up the buds. Find out where the seeds are for the most part and look for the most likely source. I would say they are already 20 days in no point of just taking them down but if there is a risk of pollentating the other tents than I don't know. Sprtay down the tent with water and clean it real good before putting them in the tent with pollen. Good luck it looks dank to me.


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## humble learner (Mar 16, 2010)

Just a suggestion, if you're a prop 215 patient then you should research the co-ops around your area and get a list of clones from all of em and post that list up for RIU to vote on what clone(s) you should grow next. Save yourself the hassle of relying on a seed bank you'll never know how stable a strain is until you grow it out.


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## laserbrn (Mar 16, 2010)

Pipe Dream said:


> hard to say what you should do. Maybe you can identify the hermie when you start breakin up the buds. Find out where the seeds are for the most part and look for the most likely source. I would say they are already 20 days in no point of just taking them down but if there is a risk of pollentating the other tents than I don't know. Sprtay down the tent with water and clean it real good before putting them in the tent with pollen. Good luck it looks dank to me.


Alright, I think I'll clean down Space #3 tomorrow and get it all sterile. I'll move these soil plants over into that tent and setup #1 & #2 with a new strain or two.


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## Pipe Dream (Mar 16, 2010)

She likes a slightly higher PH (6.6 &#8211; 6.8 )
^taken from VISC website. If your not already doing that maybe it could help with the yellowing early.


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## laserbrn (Mar 16, 2010)

Pipe Dream said:


> She likes a slightly higher PH (6.6  6.8 )
> ^taken from VISC website. If your not already doing that maybe it could help with the yellowing early.


I'm not at all concerned about yellowing early this time. It's that one leaf and after watching the last one I know that it's just the way this one goes. Last time they got burned and that made them look a little worse, but there were PLENTY of leaves on this shit when it was done. Garbage bags full of fuckin' leaves haha.

It looks like these girls are setting up nicely and it would be nice to be guaranteed some bud. Alright...I'm settled (finally) I'm going to finish these plants w/ great diligence looking for nanners. I'm not going to move these plants into the old tent because I'd have to switch their light cycle by 12 hours (which I did to the other plants by thew ay) and if that's what triggered the hermie I don't want to do it again.

I'll start vegging in the 4x4 and as soon as they are all big enough I'll add some to the 8x4 and leave the rest in the 4x4 and finish it all out. I hope I find some good strains tomorrow, I took the day off of work and I'll be hitting the town on my motorcycle to figure it all out.


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## laserbrn (Mar 19, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> I'm not at all concerned about yellowing early this time. It's that one leaf and after watching the last one I know that it's just the way this one goes. Last time they got burned and that made them look a little worse, but there were PLENTY of leaves on this shit when it was done. Garbage bags full of fuckin' leaves haha.
> 
> It looks like these girls are setting up nicely and it would be nice to be guaranteed some bud. Alright...I'm settled (finally) I'm going to finish these plants w/ great diligence looking for nanners. I'm not going to move these plants into the old tent because I'd have to switch their light cycle by 12 hours (which I did to the other plants by thew ay) and if that's what triggered the hermie I don't want to do it again.
> 
> I'll start vegging in the 4x4 and as soon as they are all big enough I'll add some to the 8x4 and leave the rest in the 4x4 and finish it all out. I hope I find some good strains tomorrow, I took the day off of work and I'll be hitting the town on my motorcycle to figure it all out.


I don't even know where we are as far as updates!

Tonight/This weekend I'll be finishing up the cleanup of space #3 and I'll probably go ahead and clean down space #2 even though it's a brand new tent. It's been in the room with Space #3 and I'm sure pollen has found it's way in there. 

I fed the plants for the first time @ 1/4 strength and there some spots already showing "The Claw" so I won't be feeding again for awhile. This plant seems perfectly content with just what's left in the soil and doesn't seem to want anything else. Follows along the lines of the last grow, plants didn't seem to like too much feeding. Major difference? I haven't lost a SINGLE leaf thus far on this grow in the soil. Some are starting to show little signs of wear, but overall the health is good.

I picked up new clones by the way and I'll link to the new grow journal after I get everything cleaned up. I'll be runnin an LA Confidential x OG Kush (Madman) and Sour Diesel as I just love that stuff.

I have until June 02 when I need to move so this thing needs to get UNDERWAY. I ordered a 465 CFM Dayton Squirrel Cage fan from ebay and I'll be using that to exhause the big tent and moving the 4" little fan back to the small tent. Hopefully in this configuration with the lights in the 8x4 being cooled by a 6" inline fan, the room being vented seperately with the squirrel cage I'll be able to run a passive intake and not need to "blow the cold air in".

I may, and if so I'll get another fan. At least winter is gone and putting a fan in my window wouldn't look the least bit suspicious.

I'm finally getting excited again. The first batch yielded about 9 oz's of useable bud and some stuff that can be used for hash or brownies. It's all a little seedy, but I smoke my own stash and I don't care about picking those seeds outta there. Plus I paid $14.00/seed to get them so at least I can feel like I'm getting a return even though I would never plant these seeds.


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## MatanuskaValley (Mar 20, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> I don't even know where we are as far as updates!
> 
> Tonight/This weekend I'll be finishing up the cleanup of space #3 and I'll probably go ahead and clean down space #2 even though it's a brand new tent. It's been in the room with Space #3 and I'm sure pollen has found it's way in there.
> 
> ...


Makes me wonder how these would perform in a guerilla grow considering they don't need much nutrients almost sounds perfect...


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## HookedOnChronic (Mar 20, 2010)

sounds awesome laser! sour diesel sounds yummy


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## laserbrn (Mar 24, 2010)

The fan hasn't shown up yet, so the sour D and LA Conf x OG are sitting under the clone lights just waiting. UPS tracking says it will be here today.

The 6 FI I've got going look pretty good. These weren't topped at all so they are growin' straight up traditional which I always like better. I like it when I don't have to top to control height, the plants just look better.

I will add a little cal-mag in their watering tonight, but other than that, they've only been fed once and they seem to be doing just fine for 28 days.

So far I haven't seen any "nanners" and I'm trying to be pretty diligent. What a pain in the ass.


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## laserbrn (Mar 26, 2010)

Things are still just chuggin' along. I didn't realize that last post failed to upload the pictures. I have new ones today anyway...

The fan did show up and I've set it up in the tent. All is well now, although these plants at least for now are in the tent alone, I've tested the tent for dual lights and it stays 82 degrees directly under the lights @ 12" with no A/C. Gotta love that, and I can hopefully produce enough to not need to worry about growin' all summer long.

My new grow journal is started for the next two strains "Sour Diesel" and "Madman (LA Conf x OG Kush".

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/315839-laserbrn-sour-diesel-la-conf.html


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## laserbrn (Mar 27, 2010)

I just posted in the General Growing area about what I believe to be the hermie!

I posted some pics, some input would be appreciated.

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/316001-confirmation-hermie.html#post3959328


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## mikejones420ish (Mar 28, 2010)

Laserbrn great journal. Good luck on the hermie problem. I was wondering why you decided to axe the Bud Blood? any reason besides the cost? I heart Bud Blood.


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## DST (Mar 28, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> Things are still just chuggin' along. I didn't realize that last post failed to upload the pictures. I have new ones today anyway...
> 
> The fan did show up and I've set it up in the tent. All is well now, although these plants at least for now are in the tent alone, I've tested the tent for dual lights and it stays 82 degrees directly under the lights @ 12" with no A/C. Gotta love that, and I can hopefully produce enough to not need to worry about growin' all summer long.
> 
> ...


Hey lsrbrn, too many people getting too anal about a couple of seeds imo. if it smokes well then what's the issue. Anyways, these soil ones look frosty, and I will pop over to check out your new journal. you closing this journal?

Peace, DST


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## laserbrn (Mar 28, 2010)

mikejones420ish said:


> Laserbrn great journal. Good luck on the hermie problem. I was wondering why you decided to axe the Bud Blood? any reason besides the cost? I heart Bud Blood.


I axed Bud Blood because it was an expensive product that doesn't do what it's advertised to do in my opinion. It was a product that they bought (not forumlated in house) and I just didn't care much for it. 

I've actually switched back to growing in soil for a little bit and I'm using Fox Farms nutrients now. I have a whole stock pile of hydro nutes, but I'm hoping not to use them in the very near future. I actually really like growing in soil a lot more than I thought I would. The real deciding factor is going to be the taste.


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## laserbrn (Mar 28, 2010)

DST said:


> Hey lsrbrn, too many people getting too anal about a couple of seeds imo. if it smokes well then what's the issue. Anyways, these soil ones look frosty, and I will pop over to check out your new journal. you closing this journal?
> 
> Peace, DST


I agree, I've never really gotten to anal about seeds. 

I'm not closing this journal by any means. I feel like that last batch was cut short and the hermie ruined everything. This grow has gone 100% smoothly and the plants are happy as can be. I feel like I'm finally delivering what I promised you guys...

I'm somewhere near 4 weeks into flower, so I'd say this journal is really just getting started.


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## DST (Mar 28, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> I agree, I've never really gotten to anal about seeds.
> 
> I'm not closing this journal by any means. I feel like that last batch was cut short and the hermie ruined everything. This grow has gone 100% smoothly and the plants are happy as can be. I feel like I'm finally delivering what I promised you guys...
> 
> I'm somewhere near 4 weeks into flower, so I'd say this journal is really just getting started.


cool, hand moving away from the unsubscribe button, hehe.


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## 323cheezy (Mar 28, 2010)

i just want to say that if your not happy with the madman or the sour d.....
than i dont know what will make u happy.....smirk....
Those strains aim too please.....
I was thinking of gettin a clone of that madman....
They have it at la wonderland..... is that where u got yours.....????


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## laserbrn (Mar 28, 2010)

323cheezy said:


> i just want to say that if your not happy with the madman or the sour d.....
> than i dont know what will make u happy.....smirk....
> Those strains aim too please.....
> I was thinking of gettin a clone of that madman....
> They have it at la wonderland..... is that where u got yours.....????


I picked it up @ RDC. Those are the ones that had the powdery mildew on them. I gave them a very, very light spray with some fungicide and I've got the humidity down to about 18%. I know veggin' plants like it a little higher, but I'm trying to stop that shit in it's tracks before it becomes a battle all grow long.

If these cuts are legit then I should be happy with these. The only strain I've ever really been unhappy with is that Fucking Incredible, it was SO easy in soil and such a pain in the ass in hydro. It had 3 hermie's out of the lot of 12 (and 1 completed retarded hermie mutant plant). They weren't feminized seeds and I just feel like this strain REALISTICALLY is junk. But if you took the time and found a strong female of the purple/dark pheno, it would be a fantastic grow. There's one pheno in there that is truly something special, and unfortunately I only have one of those plants left, the other is the one that I just found to be a hermie.

I've always loved Sour D (although it's not as highly regarded around here anymore) and if Madman is good we'll be in business.


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## sagensour (Mar 28, 2010)

Good Luck bro. Ive got some Sour D cuts right now. Just about to make more cuts. Im going to flower sour d and sour flower asap. Might be at the same time as you. That would be reffrence


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## laserbrn (Mar 28, 2010)

Ah damnit....then there were 4.

I went in tonight for an "inspection and watering and found another hermie. Checked the "marking", it was another freakin FI #1. The good news is there wasn't a different sneaky plant, bad news is that now I'm down to 4 plants. I'm debating switching to a 400w light at this point.


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## laserbrn (Apr 6, 2010)

Day 41 of flower.... I am starting to see seeds and I found another nanner today. This time in a top bud. I have NEVER had a hermie in the past and this strain has just got me so mad right now.

I'm going to finish it out and try to to freakin' daily checks for nanners. What an obnoxious problem to have. Hopefully it won't be too seeded. The previous batch is actually REALLY good. The smoke makes me really relaxed and tired. Everyone else said they got a "buzz" off of it and it gave them a real headie high, but that's not what I've found at all.

Smoke this shit, get high for a while and get really relaxed and tired. Time for a nap baby. I actually like it alot. I was smoking DP White Widow for the past 6-8 months and that stuff was a real serious high. I mean WAY up there high and never made at all sleepy. 

This is a very clear high, not like a CBD type of high, just a real clear, calming, relaxing high.


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## greengrowthexpert (Apr 11, 2010)

Boneman said:


> *I'm in *


 ME FUCKING TOO BONEMAN, Lets smoke some herb


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## Tatan (Apr 11, 2010)

Those plants look really nice, just make sure you pluck any bananas that show up.


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## laserbrn (Apr 12, 2010)

Tatan said:


> Those plants look really nice, just make sure you pluck any bananas that show up.


For the most part I'm killin the nanners when I see them. Obviously some early ones got through because I have seeds in some places. I don't really care anymore, the last batch isn't as bad as I thought. Granted I have thrown alot of it into brownies and hash, but that's what's keeping me going on these ones. I'm only going to grow them out until my new beans get here and I get them germinated. 

Hopefully they will show up here sometime this week and they will be sprouts by sometime next week so I'm hoping that in 7-10 days I'll have new little sprouts and I'll chop down these 4 plants to make room. That would give them about 57 days and thats plenty good enough for where these are going. I need to get going on something more productive. I have 4 plants sitting in a 4x8 tent with 1200w of light and about 300w of fans. I'm only running 600w of light, but the inefficiency is obvious. I've considered just leaving them in the dark for the next week and just seein' how they turn out.


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## speedyseedz (Apr 12, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> For the most part I'm killin the nanners when I see them. Obviously some early ones got through because I have seeds in some places. I don't really care anymore, the last batch isn't as bad as I thought. Granted I have thrown alot of it into brownies and hash, but that's what's keeping me going on these ones. I'm only going to grow them out until my new beans get here and I get them germinated.
> 
> Hopefully they will show up here sometime this week and they will be sprouts by sometime next week so I'm hoping that in 7-10 days I'll have new little sprouts and I'll chop down these 4 plants to make room. That would give them about 57 days and thats plenty good enough for where these are going. I need to get going on something more productive. I have 4 plants sitting in a 4x8 tent with 1200w of light and about 300w of fans. I'm only running 600w of light, but the inefficiency is obvious. I've considered just leaving them in the dark for the next week and just seein' how they turn out.


It will be cool to see how you do with these serious white russian and chronic i've sent you.


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## laserbrn (Apr 12, 2010)

speedyseedz said:


> It will be cool to see how you do with these serious white russian and chronic i've sent you.


I'm definitely looking forward to it. You notice I picked a more tried and true strain. I've NEVER had a hermie before these FI beans and my buddy who took clones from before we ever saw hermies got'em too. 

I was actually torn between the Chronic and the White Russian when ordering so I'm glad to know that I'll be trying them both!

Thanks for being there man, with the cost of equipment and electricity I can't afford to take any more chances right now on questionable genetics.


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## shnkrmn (Apr 13, 2010)

you will love growing Chronic. I'm 8 weeks from seed and my plants in flood and drain are robust nutrient hogs which is too bad for the A-train I have in there too; so it's not a strain to grow together with anything that's very sensitive cause you are going to want to feed the Chronic as much as it wants.


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## jjp53 (Apr 29, 2010)

How are those FI plants doing I been looking at VISC for a while and want to see how there stuff really is. FI was a 2008 High Times Top 10 Strains and i want to see it grown before buying some seeds


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## laserbrn (Apr 29, 2010)

Fuck this strain is all I have to say....I was having a great year until this strain came into my life. I have plenty of seeds if you want them, I mean shit tons of fuckin seeds. I'm not really offering you seeds, but making a point. Those hermie son's of bitches, this is the least stable strain I've seen with my own two eyes. Out of 12 seeds I got the worst batch of shit I've ever seen. There was one good phenotype, but it was a fuckin' hermie.

I hade straight up hermies...two of them. The grew balls and hairs from the very beginning of flowering, not nanners, balls like a dude...

I had mutants...two of them also. They grew fucked up deformed leaves and were stunted hunks of shit

I had "nanner" hermies throughout 2 grows (why the fuck did I grow these twice?) and during the second grow through careful inspection I found that all but 2 plants had nanners on them. Out of 12 there were 2 viable plants and they weren't anything to write home to mom about. No 2 plants loooked even similar, all different phenotypes...I'm actually curious if this was the fault of the strain "Fucking Incredible" or the seedbank kindseed.com. They delivered the seeds promptly, but this was seriously a pack of genetic shit and was more like growing random bagseeds.

I look forward to my White Russian seeds that are hopefully on their way to me now. I need some good strong genetics again. My White Widow runs were fun and productive and this FI muck has had me in a funk about the whole hobby for awhile now. I'm actually tearing down my grow tents this week, I've been cleaning and sanitizing the last couple of days.


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## theloadeddragon (Apr 30, 2010)

just gotta keep on keepin on


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## ColoradoLove (Apr 30, 2010)

Bummer on the hermie issues Laser. The journal has been great though!

Here's my question, what are the odds you ever let us RIU members pick another strain for you?


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## laserbrn (Apr 30, 2010)

Haha, that's a good question. It'll be a little while. I need to go with something solid next to get some more solid bud. I'm glad I could grow it out, it was interesting, but worthless IMO. I'll grow out White Russian for my next grow, grow some nice donkey dicks and then I'll go back to something more exotic again and I'll let RIU choose again. I just have to get some more productive stuff going now to make up for the loss on FI. I have bud from it, so it's not the end of the world, and it's really a good stone. Very different from WW although at LEAST as strong. This bud is one hitter quitter stuff. It makes you "buckethead" all day if ya know what I mean. It's a clear high, but you walk around like a jackass just all day long. 

You feel really relaxed, almost tired, but not sleepy and you can mosie through the day pretty good after smoking it. So all in all, even though mine is seeded and these plants where a headache, I would give the BUD a smoke report rating of about a 7.4 out of 10. I wouldn't be dissapointed if I bought it but the seeds would piss me off. There are a lot of 7.5+ strains I would choose before this one, but it's not a worthless smoke I guess is what I'm getting at. Pass if you're thinking about growing it though. A LOT better genetics out there for cheaper.


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## HookedOnChronic (May 1, 2010)

good report laser!!! i would fuckin hate the hermies too, always hate pluckin bananas
white russian is number one on my order list so your grow is going to determine if i order it or not (so make it good for me?? )....no pressure or anything  hahah


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## ColoradoLove (May 1, 2010)

In your opinion how successful would you say "plucking bananas" are at preventing the rest of the crop from getting seeded? I'm concerned I've got a hermie and I'd rather it didn't seed everything else you know?


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## theloadeddragon (May 1, 2010)

depends on how many are coming out.


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## HookedOnChronic (May 1, 2010)

yeap, ive seen like 20-40 bananas on a plant and at the end only like 2 seeds were in all the bud combined

i guess it varies from strain to strain


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## laserbrn (May 1, 2010)

I can't speak about it from experience as this is the only strain I've had this problem with, but it didn't work very well for me. I tried removing the earliest hermie plants, I tried plucking bananas, I just couldn't get them all I guess. If I see them in the future, I'll kill all the plants and start over, let's put it that way. Way too much anxiety, and too much care and banana plucking and still plenty of seeds. I hope I never go down this road again, that's for certain.


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## HookedOnChronic (May 1, 2010)

yea that strain must have hermied hard, the plants im talking about didnt show hermie issues till week 4-5 of flower


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## explicitkemical (Aug 2, 2010)

2 to 1 ratio with stealth RO


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## FKNTWSTD (Sep 22, 2010)

Subscribed, I have 4 that are 4wks into veg and am glad to see what to expect.


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## NorthernCalifornia (Sep 8, 2011)

Nice grow i got fucking incredible growing outdoor check my grow my cig


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## NorthernCalifornia (Sep 8, 2011)

nice grow!!!!!!! I GOT FUCKING INCREDBLE OUTDOOR CHECK MY CIG. YEE


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