# lets talk yield, .5g to 2.5 grams per watt. how can we get there?



## bdt1981 (Aug 7, 2012)

so we are talking hydro methods i have heard people say the .5g per watt is good then people say with everything dialed in and right lighting 2.5 gpw can be achieved. most people seem to think that a gram per watt is not possible. im running 3 sections a closet with a 2x4 sunhut at the door of the closet to keep light in and make the room biggeri for veg,400 mh and a 4 bulb 2ftt5 ballast over a 3x3 ebb and flow. 2nd stage is first stage of flower it has 2 2x4 tables ebb and flow 2 400 watt ballast one mh one hps last stop is a 4x4 table with a dimable 400,600,1000,1100 digital ballast and a 4ft t5 on two sides.add 2 co2 tanks and regulators and controllersfor flower. im asking for any help advice tips what to watch for or anything that will help me achieve maximum yield. thanks


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## Moebius (Aug 7, 2012)

Choose a high yielding strain?


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## stoned cockatoo (Aug 7, 2012)

2.5 per a watt?
Not of solid buds I don't think so.


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## bdt1981 (Aug 8, 2012)

i know seems unreal but i heard about it using vertical lighting but who knows. i shall try. strain like big bud or bomb thc bomb?


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 8, 2012)

2.5 gpw? Bullshit! But 1.5 can be done it's alot of work and time in veg. And most people myself included don't have the time to veg for that long and do the work to get it. So .5 gpw is good for us.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 8, 2012)

I see 1.2 alot but 2.5 is like going to the moon lol good luck.


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## Pipe Dream (Aug 8, 2012)

2.5 grams per watt was what Heath Robinson's vertical grow yielded I think, so it can be done.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 8, 2012)

Like i said its like going to the moon lol


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## Niko Bellick (Aug 8, 2012)

Well, we went to the Moon. New technology and methods had to be thought up but we got there. Hellraizer is right, thats a tall order. How many plants are you thinking of using to achieve this?


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## Clown Baby (Aug 8, 2012)

you can get 0.5 by neglecting your plants.
Anything over 1.5 and it's your genetics pulling a lot of the "weight".


Look at heaths flooded tube vert, though.
Not many people put that kind of work into their canopy development/manipulation


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## ru4r34l (Aug 8, 2012)

2.5 gpw is quite possible using many differnt growing techniques, but is just not really realistic for the average grower; and it should not be!

Why veg for almost three months when you could have almost finished a crop?

Any grower with a basic understanding of growing marijuana should be able to easily meet the 0.5 - 0.7 gpw; growing under 400w even newbie growers can yield 5 oz - 7 oz within a grow or two. For the smoker who medicates between 1/2 oz - 1oz a week this is usually enough to get you through until your next harvest.

After a few grows consistently yielding 7+ oz per plant is quite attainable, throw in some high yielding strains and 10 oz is a goal that can be reached.

IMHO learn the strain first the npush it to it's max, if your not happy try something else and look for better results.

regards,


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## lilemoteddy (Aug 8, 2012)

yeh to get that kind of bud you either need a monster plant with like 2 or 3 months veg or a hundred or so plants under the same light like the heath flooded tube vert. i think 1 gpw is easily enough reward for the hardwork.


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## whatsaroach?lol??? (Aug 8, 2012)

thc bomb is a heavy yeilding plant I have one going actually good luck


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## colonuggs (Aug 8, 2012)

in our indoor gardens...in 6 quart potters (1-1/2 gallon).... 6-7 weeks of veg... we are averaging over 2 pounds per light......

32 plants under 4-1000s mh.... gave us 10 lbs growing in a 10 x 10 area..... thats like 1.12 gpw 

to get to that 2 gpw output.... that would be like 20 pounds in that same 10 x 10 area...good luck


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## Taurich (Aug 8, 2012)

gpw isn't a meaningful number as gpwpm (gram per watt, per month)

2.5gpw looks better on paper compared to 1.5gpw, but if the 2.5gpw took 6 months and the 1.5gpw took 3 months, then the 1.5gpw is the more productive harvest.

Just remember to factor time into this equation if you want the best efficiency


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## OGEvilgenius (Aug 8, 2012)

Heath's best grows were lost with overgrow. He did a coleseum grow with 300 high yielding single cola plants and co2 that pulled insane numbers. Was also a lot of work. It usually depends on how much you're willing to put into it, I will say I think 2.5gpw is the upper limit. Heath has a few grow journals that hit 2gpw on this site (no CO2 and not a true SOG like he did when he pulled better numbers).

Looked like a lot less work.


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## OGEvilgenius (Aug 8, 2012)

Taurich said:


> gpw isn't a meaningful number as gpwpm (gram per watt, per month)
> 
> 2.5gpw looks better on paper compared to 1.5gpw, but if the 2.5gpw took 6 months and the 1.5gpw took 3 months, then the 1.5gpw is the more productive harvest.
> 
> Just remember to factor time into this equation if you want the best efficiency


Time is important as well, no question. Generally SOG's are gonna be highest yielding every time but they are also really high plant counts. Most people have to find a balance.


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## bdt1981 (Aug 8, 2012)

Man thanks pros. Lots of good feedback. I didn't think about it tking longer to get 2.5. I think if I get one gpw I should be very happy. Sog in a 4x4 with 1100 hps


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## OGEvilgenius (Aug 9, 2012)

1gpw is a very nice yield. To hit 2.5 it doesn't take longer, except the actual amount of work required is increased. You do a vertical SOG with all the trimmings, with a dialed in pimp ass hydro system and CO2. Oh and doing every little thing you can to squeeze out extra weight, ie: a little LST, good canopy management etc.


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## Pipe Dream (Aug 9, 2012)

Taurich said:


> gpw isn't a meaningful number as gpwpm (gram per watt, per month)
> 
> 2.5gpw looks better on paper compared to 1.5gpw, but if the 2.5gpw took 6 months and the 1.5gpw took 3 months, then the 1.5gpw is the more productive harvest.
> 
> Just remember to factor time into this equation if you want the best efficiency


If your growing perpetually, then your always running your veg room anyways, so how long you veg for is irrelevant.


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## ghb (Aug 9, 2012)

you can get 2gpw doing sog horizontally, if you want more you will have to go vertically for sure.

i grew critical+ from dinafem, it is basically big bud, i got 1.6gpw in summer with no ac and no co2, when i grow my cheese in the same way i get 1gpw but the quality is non comparable.

as with all things growing nobody can do it for you, when you learn what works best for you, you will truly be a happy man.


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## resinousflowers (Aug 9, 2012)

ghb said:


> you can get 2gpw doing sog horizontally, if you want more you will have to go vertically for sure.
> 
> i grew critical+ from dinafem, it is basically big bud, i got 1.6gpw in summer with no ac and no co2, when i grow my cheese in the same way i get 1gpw but the quality is non comparable.
> 
> as with all things growing nobody can do it for you, when you learn what works best for you, you will truly be a happy man.


yep,critical+,critical jack and moby dick a big yeilders for sure.even the blue widow is a big yeilder.


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## ghb (Aug 9, 2012)

good commercial seed company but they just don't compare in quality in my opinion, strains from reserva privada and tga are what i would consider a "good comprimise"

clone onlys are the real strains to grow but what are you to do when you can't get your mitts on em.


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## bdt1981 (Aug 9, 2012)

Got the pimp ass hydro system for sure just the dialing in. Here is what we working with: 1 000 watt dimable digital ballast with ax xxl hood inside a 54 x54 in sunhut with 4x4 ebb n flow table and two four ft t5 on the sides. Another 4x4 with two 2x4 ebb n flow tables two 400 watt digital hallways one mh and hps in closet have a 3x3 ebb and flow with 400 watt mh a 2x4 tent over the door of closet making another section for clone machine Ann prop tray. Lights and all reses are cool withawaterchilled 1 HP and two manifolds we built to run the chilled water to three ice boxes and 3 wort chillers. 2 co2 tanks and regulators a sentinal controller that is the best u can buy and another controller that was 200 bucks cheaper. 3 6in inline fans pushing and pulling air thru the lights as well as conditioning the air in the room. Tryin to harvest every 30 days. Now just need to dial it in getting very close guys I can't wait.


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## crazygreen99 (Aug 9, 2012)

hey im new to this board but was on overgrow back when it was up. Im using 13 23 wts, 4600 kelVIN daylight ultras puttin out 299 watts and another panel with #10 23 watt warm white 230 watts TOTAL WATTS = 529 WTS. Do you think a 3 x 3.5 x 9 size room with that many watts could get four blue cheese finished and get about .5 per watt at least?


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 9, 2012)

crazygreen99 said:


> hey im new to this board but was on overgrow back when it was up. Im using 13 23 wts, 4600 kelVIN daylight ultras puttin out 299 watts and another panel with #10 23 watt warm white 230 watts TOTAL WATTS = 529 WTS. Do you think a 3 x 3.5 x 9 size room with that many watts could get four blue cheese finished and get about .5 per watt at least?


Gonna say the same thing you got back then. And that's no. Good luck getting .5gpw with cfl.


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## bdt1981 (Aug 10, 2012)

I wouldn't know because I would never use cfl for flower. But I would think its impossible.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 10, 2012)

I pulled 1large and a few zips off x2 hrydro farms pannels whats that add up to?


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## tenthirty (Aug 10, 2012)

bdt1981 said:


> Got the pimp ass hydro system for sure just the dialing in. Here is what we working with: 1 000 watt dimable digital ballast with ax xxl hood inside a 54 x54 in sunhut with 4x4 ebb n flow table and two four ft t5 on the sides. Another 4x4 with two 2x4 ebb n flow tables two 400 watt digital hallways one mh and hps in closet have a 3x3 ebb and flow with 400 watt mh a 2x4 tent over the door of closet making another section for clone machine Ann prop tray. Lights and all reses are cool withawaterchilled 1 HP and two manifolds we built to run the chilled water to three ice boxes and 3 wort chillers. 2 co2 tanks and regulators a sentinal controller that is the best u can buy and another controller that was 200 bucks cheaper. 3 6in inline fans pushing and pulling air thru the lights as well as conditioning the air in the room. Tryin to harvest every 30 days. Now just need to dial it in getting very close guys I can't wait.


How many runs have you done in your setup?


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## bdt1981 (Aug 11, 2012)

1 full tray yield 2 before that that only had one plant flowering each. but i built all this stuff up from just finding a few bag seeds and throwing in closet. started with a 400 watt magnetic ballast over a year and a half this is what im ending up with. sjust now getting good at running the damn setup and everything dialed in so you get desired enviroment out of it all. you cant just throw that stuff in a room and expect it to grow something.to get it all running was a nightmare. its in a master bedroom with bathroom dedicated to it only. ro machine and res in bathroom works good. time to sit back and savor the flavors.


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## Malevolence (Aug 11, 2012)

CCoB, super cropping, and ScrOG?


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## sippinslurpies (Aug 28, 2012)

I get bang on 1g per Watt and that's with a totally homemade setup and everything is kept very simple. Pretty much just basic nutes, a little bit of hst and supper cropping, no aircon (temps are often a little high) and only ever do a couple of plants under about 2000w and veg for a few weeks. So I am guessin if i was to add C02, an aircon, employ a SOG or ScROG grow method, use some boosting nutes etc you could easily get more... I am happy with the 1 for 1 though and just keeping it more low maintenance and more forgiving .


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## GreenThumbSucker (Aug 29, 2012)

2.5 grams per watt? That is 5 1/2 lbs per light. It ain't happening.


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## drgreentm (Aug 29, 2012)

Completely dependent on the way the math is done technically a 1k only pulls 1 kwh so at 12 hours a day is only pulling 12 kw so in 60 days it's roughly 720 kw you pay for multiply by 2 for x2 gpw and it comes to roughly 3.2 lb's per lamp (still a stretch) and if you want to get more technical you would calculate veg setup as well.


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## hoagtech (Aug 29, 2012)

Shut the fuck up about the rules. Just grams per watt. IF you cant handle it. stuff it back in and keep bleedin.


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## flea1 (Aug 30, 2012)

lol ... when i saw what was a 1gpw grow there was no room .... so to increase that to 2.5 is a figure unrealistic as a nascar lap time... I think achieving near 1gpw means u are pushing things very far... Vertical grow can achieve more but 2.5?? Would love to see just how 'dry' that is lol... major factors for me are temperature because plants drink more waer under higher temps... Also understanding osmosis and how ur feed and run offs tally up can tell the 'direction' the feed is going in( between roots and tank).. Remembering roots and plan growth are direcly linked is important for big yields... If the roots aren't really happy and stable u wont get 1gpw,,, as for 2.5????? pahhhh


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## Malevolence (Aug 30, 2012)

https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/360125-new-growers-needed-grow-lab.html

Hobbes does it in soil using a light mover and a training technique he calls crop circles of bud, which he developed to grow food for developing countries. The light mover seems key. If someone did this DWC style with supercropping and scrog, I think it may be possible to get 2.5g or more.


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## since1991 (Jun 21, 2016)

Pipe Dream said:


> 2.5 grams per watt was what Heath Robinson's vertical grow yielded I think, so it can be done.


Personally. ...i have to be honest and say Heath Robinson was full of shit. Even with those pics. No one else....on all the forums ever hit those weights. Cmon. And 2 or 2.5 gpw ? Cmon. I dont think so. Its hard as fuk hitting 1.0 gpw. Initially anyways. Once you get a routine on what to do with that strain...iam sure its easier. Double ended lamps make hitting high weight much easier i knlw that. But old school lamps (thisnis an old post) and whatnot....hitting 2+ pounds per single ended 1000 watt is not easy. 2.0 or 2.5....cmon.


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## since1991 (Jun 21, 2016)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> 2.5 grams per watt? That is 5 1/2 lbs per light. It ain't happening.


This ^^^^. And most people that claim they hit 2+ pounds a thousand watt single ended arent. Believe that. And then the ones that say its easy...and play it all out in thier head are really full of shit.


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## since1991 (Jun 21, 2016)

Malevolence said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/360125-new-growers-needed-grow-lab.html
> 
> Hobbes does it in soil using a light mover and a training technique he calls crop circles of bud, which he developed to grow food for developing countries. The light mover seems key. If someone did this DWC style with supercropping and scrog, I think it may be possible to get 2.5g or more.


No its not


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 21, 2016)

With a 3 week veg I pull down every 49-56 days getting 1.12- 1.34 gpw, can flip a room 6-7 times a year that way while vegging separately.


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## tezzerLad (Jun 22, 2016)

I read a post from here about 6 years ago, an old timer told me he'd uses liquid seaweed/kelp in flower to get solid hard heavy buds.

He said i'v used it for 40yrs and i'v only not used it once and never not not used it again lol if this makes sense  

for some reason idk they get real hard and solid.



anyone know about this? heard about it ? think its shit ? tried it ?


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## coreywebster (Jun 22, 2016)

tezzerLad said:


> I read a post from here about 6 years ago, an old timer told me he'd uses liquid seaweed/kelp in flower to get solid hard heavy buds.
> 
> He said i'v used it for 40yrs and i'v only not used it once and never not not used it again lol if this makes sense
> 
> ...


Plenty use it. Seems Kelp is a wonder plant for both horticultural and health supplement uses.
Think I will try it myself next run and see what occurs. Only problem is I don't have means to test out potency levels but checking density is easy enough.


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## ttystikk (Jun 22, 2016)

How to get from. 5 to 1gpw; good basic farming skills. 

From there, things get complicated. A list of things that will help; 
-Top quality genetics
-Highly efficient COB LED lighting
-Nutrients on point
-Completely sealed and fully controlled environment with plenty of excess HVAC capacity
-CO2 supplementation 

Also, going for gpw to the exclusion of all else means giving up on yield density, so expect to need at least twice as much space as higher density approaches. 

At some point, going for extreme numbers leads to diminishing returns.


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## Alienwidow (Jun 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> How to get from. 5 to 1gpw; good basic farming skills.
> 
> From there, things get complicated. A list of things that will help;
> -Top quality genetics
> ...


Hahaha, you know point two on your list isnt necessity. 1-2lbs per light with DE hid lights is common without even trying. Rdwc and DEs will get you 2.5lbs per light easy. Id bet DE vert canopy stadium sog could pull 3lbs per light. 

Edited from gpw to lbs per light, cause im a dipshit.


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## ttystikk (Jun 22, 2016)

Alienwidow said:


> Hahaha, you know point two on your list isnt necessity. 1-2gpw with DE hid lights is common without even trying. Rdwc and DEs will get you 2.5gpw easy. Id bet DE vert canopy stadium sog could pull 3gpw.


Try it and get back to us.


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## Alienwidow (Jun 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Try it and get back to us.


I wish my numbers let me have more fun. And DEs dont come in vert yet i think. Id love to stadium a grow. Its probably on my bucket list.


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## tezzerLad (Jun 22, 2016)

coreywebster said:


> Plenty use it. Seems Kelp is a wonder plant for both horticultural and health supplement uses.
> Think I will try it myself next run and see what occurs. Only problem is I don't have means to test out potency levels but checking density is easy enough.


yep that's what i got taught, i'v tested it myself and it works.

My buds lasted me months longer to smoke, so they was heavier and denser, months longer, i didn't weigh it, but the rock hard.


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## tezzerLad (Jun 22, 2016)

@coreywebster you should do a live test here in a thread if gonna do it.

no ? yes ?


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## coreywebster (Jun 22, 2016)

tezzerLad said:


> @coreywebster you should do a live test here in a thread if gonna do it.
> 
> no ? yes ?


Yeah, no worries, I will look into getting some. I wont be starting my next run for at least a month though, still halfway through sorting my new room out. But yep, I'm up for a side by side, I always use canna boost so will do all with that and full canna coco range and run a half or a third with kelp. Will keep them separate come harvest/drying and note the weight and taste difference if there is any.
There will be a few changes in my next run but will happily try a side by side.
I really wanted to use mammoth P but cant get it in my country and adding shipping from USA will make it far too expensive. I emailed them asking about European distribution but not heard a thing back.

Anyway when it comes to my next run I will start a thread on the side by side.

EDIT, that is if I can run it with my current range. Must research more. If not I will run it as I can.
here's I tiny article http://www.growgreatvegetables.com/fertilizers/liquid-seaweed-fertilizer/


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## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

Alienwidow said:


> Hahaha, you know point two on your list isnt necessity. 1-2gpw with DE hid lights is common without even trying. Rdwc and DEs will get you 2.5gpw easy. Id bet DE vert canopy stadium sog could pull 3gpw.


Here we go again....the easy crowd. No its not easy. Its certainly not common and quite frankly i dont think its possible to pull 5 or 6 pounds even from a double ended thousand watt. Wow. Most good growers will say a 15 to 25% increase in final dry weight yield across the board with double ended hps lamps. And thats a HUGE increase for paying the same amount in electricity. Pulling double or triple the yield....cmon.


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## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

Now double ended lamps used where they were originally intended....which is supplemental lighting for decent sized greenhouses is a whole different story. Tty is rite in saying there comes a point where your hitting diminishing returns. Then its greenhouse time with hps lamps as a supplement light . Which is where the industry is heading towards. Then the whole grams per watt gets thrown out the door.


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## irish grower (Jun 22, 2016)

me and me bird ran 4 incredible bulk strains on a 600w sunmaster for 10 weeks veg 10 weeks flower,looked after them like babies so we did,we got 17.5 wet and 5 dry,we are first timers to the grow game,long time smokers were just sick of paying for it, now we have 10 on the go 6 incredible bulk pinapple chunk blue dream,im just happy to get some decent smoke that we grew with our hands,and the end of the day isint that what its all about,big up the irish and happy growing people


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## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

leesophie Irish said:


> me and me bird ran 4 incredible bulk strains on a 600w sunmaster for 10 weeks veg 10 weeks flower,looked after them like babies so we did,we got 17.5 wet and 5 dry,we are first timers to the grow game,long time smokers were just sick of paying for it, now we have 10 on the go 6 incredible bulk pinapple chunk blue dream,im just happy to get some decent smoke that we grew with our hands,and the end of the day isint that what its all about,big up the irish and happy growing people


Yup. Exactly. Hey...that Pineapple Chunk is an under the radar all around great strain huh? My cousin and several other growers have ran that and have nothing but great things to say about the old Chunk. Thinking about running it myself.


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## irish grower (Jun 22, 2016)

ye man it just sounded nice,were new to the grow game so were just learning as we go mate,i think its fun to be fair,i put the pc in the sun yesterday loved it it did,grew new true leafs over nite,its back in me grow room now tho we dont get good weather here so,just try it lad im gona try everything now lol


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## tezzerLad (Jun 22, 2016)

coreywebster said:


> Yeah, no worries, I will look into getting some. I wont be starting my next run for at least a month though, still halfway through sorting my new room out. But yep, I'm up for a side by side, I always use canna boost so will do all with that and full canna coco range and run a half or a third with kelp. Will keep them separate come harvest/drying and note the weight and taste difference if there is any.
> There will be a few changes in my next run but will happily try a side by side.
> I really wanted to use mammoth P but cant get it in my country and adding shipping from USA will make it far too expensive. I emailed them asking about European distribution but not heard a thing back.
> 
> ...


you want to watch out for iron toxity with the liquid kelp, it's full of it.

i'v had a few minor probs before with it.


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## irish grower (Jun 22, 2016)

what liquid kelp lad,im just using 10ml to 700mil of algagrow il be using the same for flowering just has lower n in it,thanks any comments greatly appreciated remember were new to the game


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## Sophie2kay8 (Jun 22, 2016)

leesophie Irish said:


> what liquid kelp lad,im just using 10ml to 700mil of algagrow il be using the same for flowering just has lower n in it,thanks any comments greatly appreciated remember were new to the game


New to the game how much u charge per hour ? Lol


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## irish grower (Jun 22, 2016)

for you,very special price lol xxx


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## Sophie2kay8 (Jun 22, 2016)

Ooo I am a lucky lady  xxx


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## irish grower (Jun 22, 2016)

i like MY clothes horse,shame theres no clean clothes on it,WELL man cant have everything,can you at least put my dinner on hehe xx love you really baby


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## Sophie2kay8 (Jun 22, 2016)

Well uve got it back now ball bag n u get my tea on MAN I'm Hank Marvin n no you don't lier ! Love you x


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## irish grower (Jun 22, 2016)

shes only going mad people coz,its am irish English grow off in our house,my pineapple chunk against my wifes blue dream strain,dont be mad lol


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## ttystikk (Jun 22, 2016)

leesophie Irish said:


> i like MY clothes horse,shame theres no clean clothes on it,WELL man cant have everything,can you at least put my dinner on hehe xx love you really baby





Sophie2kay8 said:


> Well uve got it back now ball bag n u get my tea on MAN I'm Hank Marvin n no you don't lier ! Love you x


Get a room, you two... 

Grow some beautiful plants together!


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## Sophie2kay8 (Jun 22, 2016)

Who's going mad geek lol no one is lol


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 22, 2016)

The kelp has a lot of iron but way more nitrogen, try powdered kool bloom. Makes them rock hard and oozing w resin


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## Sophie2kay8 (Jun 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Get a room, you two...
> 
> Grow some beautiful plants together!


Hahah competition time in this house separate room only lol


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## irish grower (Jun 22, 2016)

its the English mate,there just aggressive,unlike me the irish so layed back you could blow me over with a feather,booya big up the irish growers


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## Sophie2kay8 (Jun 22, 2016)

Haha u Irish are more aggressive LMAO make me laff


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## ttystikk (Jun 22, 2016)

Sophie2kay8 said:


> Hahah competition time in this house separate room only lol


Oh dear, nothing good can come of this, lol


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## Alienwidow (Jun 22, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Here we go again....the easy crowd. No its not easy. Its certainly not common and quite frankly i dont think its possible to pull 5 or 6 pounds even from a double ended thousand watt. Wow. Most good growers will say a 15 to 25% increase in final dry weight yield across the board with double ended hps lamps. And thats a HUGE increase for paying the same amount in electricity. Pulling double or triple the yield....cmon.


I dont think anyone mentioned 5-6 lbs, ever. A lb a light is pretty routine with 600 watt lamps no? My first couple grows with 600s i was getting over a lb a light and i didnt even know anything, no co2, one run i even got nutrient burn. 
I don't get how a lb a light isnt easy with a 1k bulb. I mean brave dave is pulling a gpw and cummon, he was preaching about the flowering power of MH bulbs just six months ago. I just went back to ffof soil for a run several months back and still pulled over a lb a light on every light. I dont know if youve ever run dwc, or rdwc before, but if you cant pull a lb a light from either of those methods it's time to pack it up and quit indoor growing. Or trade in those dinosaur magnetic balasts and fall off your wallet and buy some new bulbs more often than every five years.


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## ttystikk (Jun 22, 2016)

Alienwidow said:


> I dont think anyone mentioned 5-6 lbs, ever. A lb a light is pretty routine with 600 watt lamps no? My first couple grows with 600s i was getting over a lb a light and i didnt even know anything, no co2, one run i even got nutrient burn.
> I don't get how a lb a light isnt easy with a 1k bulb. I mean brave dave is pulling a gpw and cummon, he was preaching about the flowering power of MH bulbs just six months ago. I just went back to ffof soil for a run several months back and still pulled over a lb a light on every light. I dont know if youve ever run dwc, or rdwc before, but if you cant pull a lb a light from either of those methods it's time to pack it up and quit indoor growing. Or trade in those dinosaur magnetic balasts and fall off your wallet and buy some new bulbs more often than every five years.


Check your math; 1gpw is 2.207lbs, or 35 oz from a thouie.

That means some of these magicians say it's possible to pull two and a half times that much, or 2.2 x 2.5 = 5.5lbs from under a single thouie. 

I say let's see it done.


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## Alienwidow (Jun 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Check your math; 1gpw is 2.207lbs, or 35 oz from a thouie.
> 
> That means some of these magicians say it's possible to pull two and a half times that much, or 2.2 x 2.5 = 5.5lbs from under a single thouie. I say let's see it done.


Why is everyone missquoting me in this thread?  i said brave dave is pulling a gpw. I said pulling a lb a light isnt hard. 2.5 lbs per light is very possible with a dialed in rdwc. Never did i mention 5.5 lbs. if i did im sorry, i lied. Im not looking back over my quotes but if someone points it out I'll surely edit it out.


----------



## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

Alienwidow said:


> Hahaha, you know point two on your list isnt necessity. 1-2gpw with DE hid lights is common without even trying. Rdwc and DEs will get you 2.5gpw easy. Id bet DE vert canopy stadium sog could pull 3gpw.


Its all good homie. Iam stoned too. But 2.5 or 3 gpw per thouie is 5 to 6 elbows my good man. No one is pulling that with a 1000 watt hps...mogul socket or the newish double ended lamps on thier own. And a pound per 1000 watt...thats fairly par for the course...even for newer growers. One and a half is pretty decent upper average. Two plus...you got shit on point and doing great. The biggest factors are genetics...environment and the ability to manipulate it precisely...and canopy management. What medium you use (soil..soilless...water based hydroponics) ....the nutrient brands...the plant count...all that is really secondary to the above 3 pillars. And just make it easier to hit target weights. But without proper high yielding (plus quality) genetics...proper environment dialage (this confuses most and happens with time and paying attention to the same strains over and over run after run -having pricey appliances to control envirinment helps bigtime)...and managing that FULL canopy whether you got one plant or 50...you will never hit 2 plus pounds of prime trimmed dried and cured buds per thousand watts of hps lamp in flowering.


----------



## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

Btw.....i see what ya did...you meant pounds per lamp...not grams per watt. I gotcha now holmes. Oh and you betcha....some way to mount double ended in a vertical position....people would crush it. But alas...vert de as of now is a no go. By the time that happens cob led will be it for total indoors i think. Just before it all moves outdoors or in greenhouses because the price will be so low it wont be worth it to run total indoors with monthly electric bills. Economy of scale my fellow growers....economy of scale.


----------



## Slab (Jun 22, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Its all good homie. Iam stoned too. But 2.5 or 3 gpw per thouie is 5 to 6 elbows my good man. No one is pulling that with a 1000 watt hps...mogul socket or the newish double ended lamps on thier own. And a pound per 1000 watt...thats fairly par for the course...even for newer growers. One and a half is pretty decent upper average. Two plus...you got shit on point and doing great. The biggest factors are genetics...environment and the ability to manipulate it precisely...and canopy management. What medium you use (soil..soilless...water based hydroponics) ....the nutrient brands...the plant count...all that is really secondary to the above 3 pillars. And just make it easier to hit target weights. But without proper high yielding (plus quality) genetics...proper environment dialage (this confuses most and happens with time and paying attention to the same strains over and over run after run -having pricey appliances to control envirinment helps bigtime)...and managing that FULL canopy whether you got one plant or 50...you will never hit 2 plus pounds of prime trimmed dried and cured buds per thousand watts of hps lamp in flowering.


Maybe with a 6 month veg and a 300 gallon pot


----------



## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

Slab said:


> Maybe with a 6 month veg and a 300 gallon pot


Even then....with what we are using i dont think so. All good prime buds? I dont know man....thats asking alot from hps lamps. Just grow outside with that. Only so much one can do with total indoors and hitting that tipping point where it starts to become diminishing returns on what your inputs are.


----------



## Slab (Jun 22, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Even then....with what we are using i dont think so. All good prime buds? I dont know man....thats asking alot from hps lamps. Just grow outside with that. Only so much one can do with total indoors and hitting that tipping point where it starts to become diminishing returns on what your inputs are.


Agreed, just messing around.
Only comes out to 5 lbs per anum anyway, aprox.


----------



## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

Ive seen some youtube vids where these greenhouses in Colorado and Oregon are just silly with what they can do with cannabis. Theres one vid where this company has a total state of the art big operation with all the bells and whistles. Light dep covers and P.L. lamps for supplement. Sensors and Dosatrons that only feed and water when needed. Not timed. In thick slabs of Pelemix Coco coir . Basically what they been doing with big greenhouse tomato and pepper ops but packed full of cannabis varieties instead. Just amazing. And makes home hobbyists and even full warehouse grows pale in comparison. Especially in input costs versus return.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 22, 2016)

Alienwidow said:


> Why is everyone missquoting me in this thread?  i said brave dave is pulling a gpw. I said pulling a lb a light isnt hard. 2.5 lbs per light is very possible with a dialed in rdwc. Never did i mention 5.5 lbs. if i did im sorry, i lied. Im not looking back over my quotes but if someone points it out I'll surely edit it out.


It's the thread title, brother. Lol


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 22, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Btw.....i see what ya did...you meant pounds per lamp...not grams per watt. I gotcha now holmes. Oh and you betcha....some way to mount double ended in a vertical position....people would crush it. But alas...vert de as of now is a no go. By the time that happens cob led will be it for total indoors i think. Just before it all moves outdoors or in greenhouses because the price will be so low it wont be worth it to run total indoors with monthly electric bills. Economy of scale my fellow growers....economy of scale.


Except that COB LED is so efficient it makes sense in many applications where HID never could. 

But in terms of economies of scale you're absolutely correct.


----------



## Slab (Jun 22, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Ive seen some youtube vids where these greenhouses in Colorado and Oregon are just silly with what they can do with cannabis. Theres one vid where this company has a total state of the art big operation with all the bells and whistles. Light dep covers and P.L. lamps for supplement. Sensors and Dosatrons that only feed and water when needed. Not timed. In thick slabs of Pelemix Coco coir . Basically what they been doing with big greenhouse tomato and pepper ops but packed full of cannabis varieties instead. Just amazing. And makes home hobbyists and even full warehouse grows pale in comparison. Especially in input costs versus return.


I am all about the slabs lol.
Spent a lot of time researching Israeli methods. Much of what you described, along with Huge vertical set ups. Transparent walls that operate like a dry cleaners rack. Blown away.

I can see scaffolding 30-40 ft high in the next few years, being the trend.

I am looking to yeild less, I want strain that takes 4 months to flower, offers only a couple ounces and the thought of a second hit scares you


----------



## Alienwidow (Jun 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's the thread title, brother. Lol


Ya i know lol, i just figured since i put lbs after all the numbers that everyone reading would just make the 450g math in their head.....x 2=900g/1000w light. Or x2.5=1125/1000w light. But i do see how the thread title and my comments got confusing. Its like that mind fuck joke...ask ten people quickly what do you put in a toaster and usually theyll say toast. But its bread. Toast comes out. Bread goes in. What were we talking about? I think im too high for this right now. Good talk.


----------



## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

Slab said:


> I am all about the slabs lol.
> Spent a lot of time researching Israeli methods. Much of what you described, along with Huge vertical set ups. Transparent walls that operate like a dry cleaners rack. Blown away.
> 
> I can see scaffolding 30-40 ft high in the next few years, being the trend.
> ...


Trueblooded African and Asian Sativas my friend. I smoked some Congolese awhile back....shit gave me the fears. Like an acid trip. This is very general but ive noticed over the years...younger under 35 ish or so smokers are all about the og type floor yer ass indicas. They love that narcotic stone. Whereas the older veteran heads are all over them long season gangly sativas. The old school pre Afghan ones from the 70's. I got some vintage High Times mags from back then and some of that satty stuff looked like what we would call poop bid now a days....looks that is. Until you smoke that trippy shit. Off like a rocket and can make some paranoid. I miss it myself. Hard to grow it indoors. ..takes forever...and here in Michigan...it never finishes outside. Got to cross it with indys to do it up. Thus diluting that pure Satty psychedelic soaring high.


----------



## Alienwidow (Jun 22, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Its all good homie. Iam stoned too. But 2.5 or 3 gpw per thouie is 5 to 6 elbows my good man. No one is pulling that with a 1000 watt hps...mogul socket or the newish double ended lamps on thier own. And a pound per 1000 watt...thats fairly par for the course...even for newer growers. One and a half is pretty decent upper average. Two plus...you got shit on point and doing great. The biggest factors are genetics...environment and the ability to manipulate it precisely...and canopy management. What medium you use (soil..soilless...water based hydroponics) ....the nutrient brands...the plant count...all that is really secondary to the above 3 pillars. And just make it easier to hit target weights. But without proper high yielding (plus quality) genetics...proper environment dialage (this confuses most and happens with time and paying attention to the same strains over and over run after run -having pricey appliances to control envirinment helps bigtime)...and managing that FULL canopy whether you got one plant or 50...you will never hit 2 plus pounds of prime trimmed dried and cured buds per thousand watts of hps lamp in flowering.


Oh fuck. I did write that wrong. Ooops. Off to the edit button. Sorry for being a dumbass thread derailer.  runs away quietly.....


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 22, 2016)

Alienwidow said:


> Ya i know lol, i just figured since i put lbs after all the numbers that everyone reading would just make the 450g math in their head.....x 2=900g/1000w light. Or x2.5=1125/1000w light. But i do see how the thread title and my comments got confusing. Its like that mind fuck joke...ask ten people quickly what do you put in a toaster and usually theyll say toast. But its bread. Toast comes out. Bread goes in. What were we talking about? I think im too high for this right now. Good talk.


This stuff is highly relevant to my work these days, love the conversation.



Slab said:


> I am all about the slabs lol.
> Spent a lot of time researching Israeli methods. Much of what you described, along with Huge vertical set ups. Transparent walls that operate like a dry cleaners rack. Blown away.
> 
> I can see scaffolding 30-40 ft high in the next few years, being the trend.
> ...


Tell me more about Israeli vertical grows and racking systems?


----------



## Alienwidow (Jun 22, 2016)

Alienwidow said:


> Hahaha, you know point two on your list isnt necessity. 1-2lbs per light with DE hid lights is common without even trying. Rdwc and DEs will get you 2.5lbs per light easy. Id bet DE vert canopy stadium sog could pull 3lbs per light.
> 
> Edited from gpw to lbs per light, cause im a dipshit.


fixed it.  runs back to the shadows......


----------



## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Except that COB LED is so efficient it makes sense in many applications where HID never could.
> 
> But in terms of economies of scale you're absolutely correct.


If cobs are that efficient (which iam sure they are) i see them replacing hps lamps even in the greenhouses in the future. Better more efficient and productive supplemental lighting....for what? Half or less than cost of running hps? Its got to be the future. Its a money thing....and that determines ultimately everything.


----------



## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> This stuff is highly relevant to my work these days, love the conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me more about Israeli vertical grows and racking systems?


Yes...me too. Israeli rack systems? Iam interested just for the latest info. I have seen the robotic ferris wheel type conveyor racks in giant greenhouses for low crops and seedling/cutting production. That shits amazing.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 22, 2016)

since1991 said:


> If cobs are that efficient (which iam sure they are) i see them replacing hps lamps even in the greenhouses in the future. Better more efficient and productive supplemental lighting....for what? Half or less than cost of running hps? Its got to be the future. Its a money thing....and that determines ultimately everything.


You save power on the lights, and on the HVAC required for climate control. It's a double win. 

In winter, the heat generated is generally beneficial.


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## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

Alienwidow said:


> fixed it.  runs back to the shadows......


You good. This old ass thread just getting good. Stick around bro.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 22, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Yes...me too. Israeli rack systems? Iam interested just for the latest info. I have seen the robotic ferris wheel type conveyor racks in giant greenhouses for low crops and seedling/cutting production. That shits amazing.


Can you find some pics? I dig that shit!


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## Slab (Jun 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> This stuff is highly relevant to my work these days, love the conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me more about Israeli vertical grows and racking systems?


HaHa! you actually came to mind when I thought of the 3 story vert set up

Picture transparent shower curtains or those things Moms would put her shoes in that hung on the back of the door only 30 ft high. The " rack" they hung on was an loop that would face the sunrise and then track with the Sun


----------



## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Can you find some pics? I dig that shit!


I could but i dunno how to post em. Look up high tech greenhouses on youtube. There is some amazing shit. There is one where this big tomato grower has a zero input operation. They got a machine that recycles some kind of greenhouse gas (????) and turns it into steam to power the whole huge operations generators. A bunch of engineers told the main guy he was nuts and it would never work. He proved them all wrong. Wish i had the link. Its awesome.


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## Slab (Jun 22, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Yes...me too. Israeli rack systems? Iam interested just for the latest info. I have seen the robotic ferris wheel type conveyor racks in giant greenhouses for low crops and seedling/cutting production. That shits amazing.


Rin tin tin da da ( circus music)

That's what I saw, Ferris wheel good descript

Edit: merry go round better


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## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

Slab said:


> HaHa! you actually came to mind when I thought of the 3 story vert set up
> 
> Picture transparent shower curtains or those things Moms would put her shoes in that hung on the back of the door only 30 ft high. The " rack" they hung on was an loop that would face the sunrise and then track with the Sun


Ive seen that dealy on youtube too i think. Big rack conveyor system. Like a long ferris wheel type deal. Awesome.


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## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

Or how about the robotic "arms" that gently grab a start plug and plop a seed or cutting in it.


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## Slab (Jun 22, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Or how about the robotic "arms" that gently grab a start plug and plop a seed or cutting in it.


Lowly garden tech : " can someone adjust the YieldKing3000 , he had me in a choke hold for 15 minutes just now"


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## firsttimeARE (Jun 22, 2016)

Just getting to 1gpw territory after taking growing more seriously.

I cant imagine 2gpw or more.

Most strains I run are terrible yielders.

I did grow this Darkstar from T.H. Seeds that yielded 8oz per 2x2 screen under a 600w SE HPS.

If i had 4 of those that woulda been 2lbs per 600w SE HPS. About 1.5gpw.


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## ttystikk (Jun 22, 2016)

since1991 said:


> I could but i dunno how to post em. Look up high tech greenhouses on youtube. There is some amazing shit. There is one where this big tomato grower has a zero input operation. They got a machine that recycles some kind of greenhouse gas (????) and turns it into steam to power the whole huge operations generators. A bunch of engineers told the main guy he was nuts and it would never work. He proved them all wrong. Wish i had the link. Its awesome.


That's methane from the biodigestor being burned to produce steam for electrical generation. The CO2 by product would also no doubt be recycled back into the greenhouse for sure! 

Great stuff!


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## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That's methane from the biodigestor being burned to produce steam for electrical generation. The CO2 by product would also no doubt be recycled back into the greenhouse for sure!
> 
> Great stuff!


Cool isnt it? Talk about efficiency. Top quality produce with next to no impact on environment and very low cost. Labor in those big commercial setups has largely been automated also. Next all we need as a planet is affordable highly efficient desalination plants for clean water. I heard at the moment they are expensive and intensive. Maintenance is high also. The Saudis got em i believe.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 22, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Cool isnt it? Talk about efficiency. Top quality produce with next to no impact on environment and very low cost. Labor in those big commercial setups has largely been automated also. Next all we need as a planet is affordable highly efficient desalination plants for clean water. I heard at the moment they are expensive and intensive. Maintenance is high also. The Saudis got em i believe.


One could also use certain kinds of plants to drink brackish water and transpire pure water vapor in an enclosed space like a greenhouse, then condense that back into liquid.


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## Steve Man (Jun 22, 2016)

Anyone can get those numbers as long as you don't fuck up in veg and leave them in there for a month or two longer than you intend. Also a heavy yeild helps


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## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

Steve Man said:


> Anyone can get those numbers as long as you don't fuck up in veg and leave them in there for a month or two longer than you intend. Also a heavy yeild helps


What numbers? The thread title? No....sorry. I dont think so. Theres only so much one can do with hps lamps indoors. The numbers yall place on here is just silly. I been in this game a long ass time and seen and grown a hell of alot. This 2 ....2.5...or 3 grams per watt shit is total forum bullshit. And perpetuated by realtively newish growers that dont know they asshole from an elbow.


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## Steve Man (Jun 22, 2016)

since1991 said:


> What numbers? The thread title? No....sorry. I dont think so. Theres only so much one can do with hps lamps indoors. The numbers yall place on here is just silly. I been in this game a long ass time and seen and grown a hell of alot. This 2 ....2.5...or 3 grams per watt shit is total forum bullshit. And perpetuated by realtively newish growers that dont know they asshole from an elbow.


Idk I've seen plenty of guys on here who veg a extra month and have hit 2.5. They have perfected their shit but it's been achieved before


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## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

I dont care if your jack and the beanstalk himself. Theres not a grower out there gonna pull 5 or 6 pounds per thousand watt. Say what you want....anythings possible...yeah rite.


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## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

Steve Man said:


> Idk I've seen plenty of guys on here who veg a extra month and have hit 2.5. They have perfected their shit but it's been achieved before


Dude...are you confusing your numbers? Grams per watt and pounds per lamp are totally different.


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## since1991 (Jun 22, 2016)

Iam outta here. Shits just silly.


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## Budley Doright (Jun 22, 2016)

I hate these threads lol. Makes me feel very inadequate lol. I get around one per and that's on a good day not average . I am getting better though lol. And this gram per watt thing is just ridiculous, how in the hell could it be used as a comparison without time factored in?


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## STLbudz (Jun 22, 2016)

I got 20 plants in this stadium grow , with 2 600s vegging in coco,AN nutes,will dim up 2 750 (bare bulb). Co2 evey 3 hours ppm 900-1200 climate on point ,sealed room,going to flip very soon as soon as I add a U screen id feel very very lucky to 1.5 lbs per bulb and that's less then 1 gpw. 8 blue dream 8 grape invaders 4 gg4 finger crossed I'll report soon (well if I remeber in 2.5-3 mths or someone tags me haha)


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## Meast21 (Jun 23, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> With a 3 week veg I pull down every 49-56 days getting 1.12- 1.34 gpw, can flip a room 6-7 times a year that way while vegging separately.


I usually veg separately too, especially in the summer. In the winter I veg in the tents I have to create more heat...Don't know what strains you got going only 7 or 8 weeks??


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## Meast21 (Jun 23, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I hate these threads lol. Makes me feel very inadequate lol. I get around one per and that's on a good day not average . I am getting better though lol. And this gram per watt thing is just ridiculous, how in the hell could it be used as a comparison without time factored in?


Most I ever got was about 1.15 grams per watt, but I have height restrictions bc of 6 foot tent. I really don't see anything over 1.75 grams per watt realistic.... And that's with an awesome strain.


----------



## Steve Man (Jun 23, 2016)

Meast21 said:


> Most I ever got was about 1.15 grams per watt, but I have height restrictions bc of 6 foot tent. I really don't see anything over 1.75 grams per watt realistic.... And that's with an awesome strain.


Anything over 1per watt Is way above average. I only rarely see people getting into to 2 range. No one should ever fell bad about 1 per


----------



## since1991 (Jun 23, 2016)

Anyone getting 1.5 or 2 pounds a 1000 watter...consider yerself a great fukin grower man. Bottom line end of story. I speak the truth too. Hell....even you 20 ounce a lamp growers...pat yerself on the back. Ibeen growing dope in some fashion inside for decades man. And one thing is for sure.....to do it rite is expensive as hell and one little fuk up will set you back. Its a passion bros..and dammit....most of you are cranking out good ass weed. At the end of the day....thats all that matters. Grow on my homies....grow on.


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## since1991 (Jun 23, 2016)

Steve Man said:


> Anything over 1per watt Is way above average. I only rarely see people getting into to 2 range. No one should ever fell bad about 1 per


You dont see anyone getting 2 grams per watt.....ever. That is a fact. Anyone approaching 0.7 or 0.8 is the shit in my book. Even 0.6 growers....you gotta be paying attention to some fukin thing. Anything over a pound per 1000 watt hps...youre an above averagw grower....no doubt. Again....i speak the truth. Not many can appreciate how difficult it is to get a gram per watt of flowering light at harvest time. People that throw the numbers around casually are full of shit and do not grasp the concept. It actually is a fairly decent measure. Any other variable can be changed. The only constants are watts....and time.


----------



## Slab (Jun 23, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I hate these threads lol. Makes me feel very inadequate lol. I get around one per and that's on a good day not average . I am getting better though lol. And this gram per watt thing is just ridiculous, how in the hell could it be used as a comparison without time factored in?


I agree, a feel good number that most obtain with months of vegatation.

The formula i was taught was grams x watts divided by the number of months spent flowering. ( 45 days equals 1.5 months)

I use ounces per sq ft. 

Extending your pre flower stretch and flowering time by going outside the 12/12 schedule is something to explore.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 23, 2016)

since1991 said:


> You dont see anyone getting 2 grams per watt.....ever. That is a fact. Anyone approaching 0.7 or 0.8 is the shit in my book. Even 0.6 growers....you gotta be paying attention to some fukin thing. Anything over a pound per 1000 watt hps...youre an above averagw grower....no doubt. Again....i speak the truth. Not many can appreciate how difficult it is to get a gram per watt of flowering light at harvest time. People that throw the numbers around casually are full of shit and do not grasp the concept. It actually is a fairly decent measure. Any other variable can be changed. The only constants are watts....and time.


Breeders have been shortening finishing times for decades now, so that's incorrect.

Watts are uniquely dependent on the device they're fed into and more efficient led setups are appearing all the time. @REALSTYLES built a 70% efficient COB LED light and was close to 2gpw. Others have mentioned they're knocking on the same door, again with COB LED. So that assertion is even further from the facts on the ground.

I absolutely think 2gpw is possible and with the new techniques and technologies I've seen recently, I'd say it's even likely to become an expected standard in the not too distant future.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 23, 2016)

Slab said:


> I agree, a feel good number that most obtain with months of vegatation.
> 
> The formula i was taught was grams x watts divided by the number of months spent flowering. ( 45 days equals 1.5 months)
> 
> ...


As ever, you say some very intriguing things. I have a batch coming that's going to be too small to fill in the trellis. What do you suggest to extend the stretch phase and help me fill things in?


----------



## since1991 (Jun 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Breeders have been shortening finishing times for decades now, so that's incorrect.
> 
> Watts are uniquely dependent on the device they're fed into and more efficient led setups are appearing all the time. @REALSTYLES built a 70% efficient COB LED light and was close to 2gpw. Others have mentioned they're knocking on the same door, again with COB LED. So that assertion is even further from the facts on the ground.
> 
> I absolutely think 2gpw is possible and with the new techniques and technologies I've seen recently, I'd say it's even likely to become an expected standard in the not too distant future.


You know me tty...iam in the hps camp...still. This whole new lighting (cob) is a different ball game. And your at that frontier. You and a small handful of others are the Lewis and Clark with the new cob stuff. And its about time i say. Only so much you can do with HID lighting. Its old news. Double ended is about as good as it will get with gas pressure lamps.


----------



## Slab (Jun 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> As ever, you say some very intriguing things. I have a batch coming that's going to be too small to fill in the trellis. What do you suggest to extend the stretch phase and help me fill things in?


14/10 to 12/12 over a 2-3 week span is the method. 

A two tier system where one fills the bottom half predominately. if your containers are not bound to the floor, raising the other one behind it a couple feet also might be a fix.


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 23, 2016)

increase distance from light to canopy or dimming the power on ballast can help the stretch happen. Also a high n diet causes excessive stretch


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## SoOLED (Jun 23, 2016)

$$$$ lots of $$$$


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## Steve Man (Jun 23, 2016)

https://www.rollitup.org/t/critical-mass-tree-grow-x-2.101347/
old grow and feel free to correct me but heath accomplished with 3 600w to get 74oz a little bit over the 1gpw


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## since1991 (Jun 23, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> increase distance from light to canopy or dimming the power on ballast can help the stretch happen. Also a high n diet causes excessive stretch


According to recent studies its the high phosphorous at the onset of initiating a flowering photoperiod that really exaggerates the "stretch". Much moreso than nitrogen. The spectrum of hps lamps also. You can really keep all but the lankiest of hybrids under control using a low p diet ( keep using a "grow" nutrient for the first couple weeks). A metal halide bulb for those early weeks helps also. But a really effective trick is an old greenhouse grower one. If you can....keep the lights off temp about 3 to 5 degrees warmer than lights on temp. Use these 3 methods....plant stretch is minimal.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 23, 2016)

since1991 said:


> You know me tty...iam in the hps camp...still. This whole new lighting (cob) is a different ball game. And your at that frontier. You and a small handful of others are the Lewis and Clark with the new cob stuff. And its about time i say. Only so much you can do with HID lighting. Its old news. Double ended is about as good as it will get with gas pressure lamps.


And DE sucks. Lol

I'm telling you right now; the only thing you'll regret about your COB LED purchase is waiting so long to make it. Fuck the extra cost; it will pay for itself in additional yield and quality in the first run or two!


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 23, 2016)

since1991 said:


> According to recent studies its the high phosphorous at the onset of initiating a flowering photoperiod that really exaggerates the "stretch". Much moreso than nitrogen. The spectrum of hps lamps also. You can really keep all but the lankiest of hybrids under control using a low p diet ( keep using a "grow" nutrient for the first couple weeks). A metal halide bulb for those early weeks helps also. But a really effective trick is an old greenhouse grower one. If you can....keep the lights off temp about 3 to 5 degrees warmer than lights on temp. Use these 3 methods....plant stretch is minimal.


...or use them in reverse to accentuate stretch, lol


----------



## Slab (Jun 23, 2016)

question for my forward thinking buds.

Anyone ever train a plants side branches back into the mainstem to form one kola?

I did it, funny shit how the lower branch buds fit right into the gaps on the main stem like puzzle pieces.
Mother Nature Must have had some serious SOG style grows going back a few million years.

Just trying to get max out of a sq foot. I like your method Ty. The gains by cubic foot are massive.

Got one bound now, didn't train the lower buds all the way in but they sure as hell do fit perfectly to form one huge fugazi kola. 
I trained her within the circumference of a 5 gal pot, my goal is cut to cut in 70 days.
Going to make the timeline, sure as hell not going to get Qp goal though.


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 23, 2016)

since1991 said:


> According to recent studies its the high phosphorous at the onset of initiating a flowering photoperiod that really exaggerates the "stretch". Much moreso than nitrogen. The spectrum of hps lamps also. You can really keep all but the lankiest of hybrids under control using a low p diet ( keep using a "grow" nutrient for the first couple weeks). A metal halide bulb for those early weeks helps also. But a really effective trick is an old greenhouse grower one. If you can....keep the lights off temp about 3 to 5 degrees warmer than lights on temp. Use these 3 methods....plant stretch is minimal.


 Ever heard of phosoload? It stops lateral growth. My studies tell me a high nitrogen diet causes excessive spacing between buds


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 23, 2016)

SoOLED said:


> $$$$ lots of $$$$


?


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 23, 2016)

So here's a recent testimonial from a guy who says he pulled 1.9gpw with a Johnson Grow Lights CX-9;

https://www.rollitup.org/t/johnsongrowlights-com-cx-9-grow.894034/page-4#post-12476191

I'll let him speak for himself, in his own posting. The way I interpret what he's saying is that he feels it isn't too hard to pull serious gpw numbers with a decent grow op and a well designed COB LED fixture.


----------



## since1991 (Jun 24, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> Ever heard of phosoload? It stops lateral growth. My studies tell me a high nitrogen diet causes excessive spacing between buds


Its the paclobutrazol thats in phosphoload thats making your plants stop dead in thier tracks with apical stretch. A known cancer causing artificial growth hormone. And yes....p causes the stretch not nitrogen. High nitrates will make for bendy rubbery shoots yes...low in carbs and starches. But its phosphorous that makes plants stretch in the early bud setting stages of 12-12.


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## ttystikk (Jun 24, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Its the paclobutrazol thats in phosphoload thats making your plants stop dead in thier tracks with apical stretch. A known cancer causing artificial growth hormone. And yes....p causes the stretch not nitrogen. High nitrates will make for bendy rubbery shoots yes...low in carbs and starches. But its phosphorous that makes plants stretch in the early bud setting stages of 12-12.


Ok, so that means I'm gonna put some P in my girls who need to get their grow on, and see how it works. 

I use dry hydroponic nutrient salts, specifically so that I know precisely what I'm putting on my plants- and just as importantly, what I'm NOT.


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## since1991 (Jun 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Ok, so that means I'm gonna put some P in my girls who need to get their grow on, and see how it works.
> 
> I use dry hydroponic nutrient salts, specifically so that I know precisely what I'm putting on my plants- and just as importantly, what I'm NOT.


Honestly i anticipate the stretch myself. I veg in a 7x7 tent with t5 lamps. I aggressively tie down and top just about all my strains to get a nice 18 to 24 inch bush with multiple tops. In 2 or 3 gallon cloth pots. When my canopy is fulfuand packed with leaves and tops under 2 of the t5 lamps i put the bushes in one of the flowering rooms...usually hogging up 2 or 3lamps at a time. The first 2 or 3 weeks...all them multi tops grow straight up and ususally finish at 3 to 3.5 feet. Nice even flat canopy. I try to pack and group same or similar growth habit strains together. Multi strain grows are more difficult for me to keep an even canopy profile...but i try


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## since1991 (Jun 24, 2016)

I should rephrase that p causes stretch. All cannabis plants ive grown "stretch" to some degree in early 12 -12. But from what ive found and researched on the web is higher p diets make plants stretch more than if laying off P and more or less easing into high phosphorous a little later in flower. All strian dependent entirely of course. But if you have a lanky Sativa based strain that stretches like mad....there are a few techniques one can employ to limit it as much as possible. I grow in a typical 6.5 foot michigan basement. Every inch is valuable real estate for me. Iam all about low and wide with training and canopy management methods in veg. Then iam prepared and actually welcome the early flowering stretch all my varieties seem to put out.


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 24, 2016)

Increasing phosphorus is going to do the opposite you want bro.  I have 10 tables like this that I switch to flower every few weeks.


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## since1991 (Jun 24, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> Increasing phosphorus is going to do the opposite you want bro. View attachment 3716278 I have 10 tables like this that I switch to flower every few weeks.


Nice. Rockwool blocks? One strain? How many plants per table? Do you top them? What size when you decide to flip? 4x8 tables? Nice canopy.


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## Phytium hater (Jun 24, 2016)

tezzerLad said:


> yep that's what i got taught, i'v tested it myself and it works.
> 
> My buds lasted me months longer to smoke, so they was heavier and denser, months longer, i didn't weigh it, but the rock hard.


Do you add kelp in late flowering to reservoir...I was looking in to that but it seems Growth Technology Nitrozyme (that's what I have in my cabin) is not recommended in late flower....


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## STLbudz (Jun 24, 2016)

Hit em with the tables ! Haha..I Was thinking of 32 plants per 4x8 tables under gavitas but those numbers looks promising , how much yield per table and how many ? @Chillin chillin


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## since1991 (Jun 24, 2016)

Phytium hater said:


> Do you add kelp in late flowering to reservoir...I was looking in to that but it seems Growth Technology Nitrozyme (that's what I have in my cabin) is not recommended in late flower....


Ive always did well using nzime as a foliar the first few weeks of the flip....and all through veg....every 4 to 6 days. Spray the shit outta them.


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## since1991 (Jun 24, 2016)

I use to run old school P.l deep reflectors 600 watters over 3x6 tables with one gallon growbags. 28 plants per. 7x4 row counts. Simple open tube with barbed "t's" instead of drippers.


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 24, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Nice. Rockwool blocks? One strain? How many plants per table? Do you top them? What size when you decide to flip? 4x8 tables? Nice canopy.


Thanks. Cubes 6", I have from 7-10 different strains @ any given time. Begging is 64 per 4x8. Flower is 9 per 4x4, topped 12-16".


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 24, 2016)

Phytium hater said:


> Do you add kelp in late flowering to reservoir...I was looking in to that but it seems Growth Technology Nitrozyme (that's what I have in my cabin) is not recommended in late flower....


Kelp is excellent to kill pests foliarly but has high nitrogen ( to much n = powdery mildew). Lil kelp, amino acids and folic acid and you have the best foliar around.


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 24, 2016)

STLbudz said:


> Hit em with the tables ! Haha..I Was thinking of 32 plants per 4x8 tables under gavitas but those numbers looks promising , how much yield per table and how many ? @Chillin chillin


9 per 4x4 and we get from 2-3 no co2


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## ttystikk (Jun 24, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> Thanks. Cubes 6", I have from 7-10 different strains @ any given time. Begging is 64 per 4x8. Flower is 9 per 4x4, topped 12-16".


Ebb n flood, or individual drippers for watering?


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 24, 2016)

Individual 4gph. We water for 1-2 min 3-6 times a day


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 24, 2016)

We have figured out how to finish the flowering cycle in everything we have in 49 days. With that flowering time it allows us to flower each room 7 times a year


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 24, 2016)

Suppose they could go a lil longer but the stems start to get moldy(fat dense nugs) when letting them go in the 8 week range


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## ttystikk (Jun 24, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> We have figured out how to finish the flowering cycle in everything we have in 49 days. With that flowering time it allows us to flower each room 7 times a year


So as long as you get the room turned over in 3 days, you're golden, right? 

You just run short finishing strains, then? I'll confess I do; though mine is set for 8 weeks. I settle for 6 and a half turns per annum.


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## tezzerLad (Jun 25, 2016)

Phytium hater said:


> Do you add kelp in late flowering to reservoir...I was looking in to that but it seems Growth Technology Nitrozyme (that's what I have in my cabin) is not recommended in late flower....


i don't know about adding it to hyrdo sorry.

soil.


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## Budley Doright (Jun 25, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> View attachment 3716678 Suppose they could go a lil longer but the stems start to get moldy(fat dense nugs) when letting them go in the 8 week range


How many days from switch are they (the pic). Also what are your best fast finish strains, potency not yield? Very nice btw!!!!!


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 25, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> How many days from switch are they (the pic). Also what are your best fast finish strains, potency not yield? Very nice btw!!!!!


Gg 4 is my favorite. Finished in 49 days 
I grow og strains, gg 4 and orange glue


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## Stealthstyle (Jun 25, 2016)

http://rollitup.org/t/simple-to-use-system-the-library.910683/


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 25, 2016)

Y


ttystikk said:


> So as long as you get the room turned over in 3 days, you're golden, right?
> 
> You just run short finishing strains, then? I'll confess I do; though mine is set for 8 weeks. I settle for 6 and a half turns per annum.


 Correct. Actually same day we put lights out 36 hrs


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## ttystikk (Jun 25, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> Y
> 
> Correct. Actually same day we put lights out 36 hrs


How do you get 8 week strains to finish in 7?

I routinely turn over my bloom room in just a couple of hours.


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## Stealthstyle (Jun 25, 2016)

18 hour cycle?


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## Olive Drab Green (Jun 25, 2016)

Why 18? Why not 24/0? Grows 25% faster.


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 25, 2016)

I don't think 2.5gpw is unreachable, I just can't get there. Looks to me that veg time takes its toll, I get from 1-1.31 gpw with 16" of canopy. 
I'd be willing to bet that vertical with months of veg would get you there, I feel I can get more yearly this way


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 25, 2016)

Stealthstyle said:


> 18 hour cycle?


12 hours light, 5.5 hrs dark, 1 hr light, 5.5 hrs dark


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## Olive Drab Green (Jun 25, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> 12 hours light, 5.5 hrs dark, 1 hr light, 5.5 hrs dark


Sounds like it would herm. There is no natural light cycle on Earth like that.


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 25, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Why 18? Why not 24/0? Grows 25% faster.


 You are so wrong


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## Olive Drab Green (Jun 25, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> You are so wrong


Says the guy growing on a completely unnatural light cycle. Cannabis doesn't need darkness for veg.


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> How do you get 8 week strains to finish in 7?
> 
> I routinely turn over my bloom room in just a couple of hours.


 Bud blood, bud igniter, kool bloom. Actually we get 9-10 week strains to finish in 7


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 25, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Says the guy growing on a completely unnatural light cycle. Cannabis doesn't need darkness for veg.


You just don't know


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## ttystikk (Jun 25, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> 12 hours light, 5.5 hrs dark, 1 hr light, 5.5 hrs dark


Aka gaslight timing, after the practice of using gas lanterns at night to interrupt the dark cycle. I think it's fascinating that the technique is older than electricity.

It's not a bloom technique, it's for veg, but I also seem to remember that people say the plants really jump into flower hard after vegging in gaslight timing. 

Is that why you do it?


----------



## Olive Drab Green (Jun 25, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> You just don't know


Whatever, man. I'm going to keep on doing what I do. You do you, I guess.


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 25, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Sounds like it would herm. There is no natural light cycle on Earth like that.


What I thought also


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## Olive Drab Green (Jun 25, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> What I thought also


Enlighten me.


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 25, 2016)

http://cannabisni.com/2101/grow-bigger-and-better-saving-30-50-percent-on-your-energy-cost


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## ttystikk (Jun 25, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> You are so wrong


Maybe, maybe not. I veg with low light intensity. Gaslight timing did nothing for me. Those who veg with more power report better results, so it seems to me there's a pattern. Nothing is for sure because it's all anecdotal evidence at this point, but it would seem to account for the differences.


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## since1991 (Jun 25, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Says the guy growing on a completely unnatural light cycle. Cannabis doesn't need darkness for veg.


Cmon dude. I will say this one tjme and one time only....you can tell on all these forums who the real growers are and who the goofballs are. I can spot em everytime.


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## Stealthstyle (Jun 25, 2016)

It's basically manipulating the circadian rhythm... It's assumed that since Earth has 24-hour days, all plants and animals are entrained to it. But in my opinion, not every plant or animal is created equal... 24 hours is just the average norm. Some things might do best with longer or shorter days...

I found the article you were talking about:
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/75957-growing-18-hour-day-night.html
The source it references, http://www.intelli-cycle.com/information.php , doesn't seem to work anymore but is still in Google's cache

Too bad it says it gives the same yield... but doing it in less time with less power is still pretty awesome...


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## Olive Drab Green (Jun 25, 2016)

I guess that makes sense.


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## Olive Drab Green (Jun 25, 2016)

I, personally, will more than likely continue using 24/0, but what you're saying mostly makes sense. I just would be really wary of using that technique. I'd assume certain strains with weaker genetics would go balls-up.


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Maybe, maybe not. I veg with low light intensity. Gaslight timing did nothing for me. Those who veg with more power report better results, so it seems to me there's a pattern. Nothing is for sure because it's all anecdotal evidence at this point, but it would seem to account for the differences.


I've begged for 24,18 and this gas veg also. The gas makes shorter internodes and thicker stems. W 24 hr light it took me 10 days longer to veg, w 18 it worked great but you know


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## Olive Drab Green (Jun 25, 2016)

Very quickly, not trying to hijack, I'm thinking about starting a seed for my next run. Considering Jack Herer or GSC. Considering saving the Sour D for the Winter.


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## Olive Drab Green (Jun 25, 2016)

Here's the Heavyweight Fruit Punch and Big Buddha Blue Cheese I have growing now:


HWFP-
 

BBBC-


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## Stealthstyle (Jun 25, 2016)

i had some bad luck with 6 on 12 off with some strains, hindu kush loved it.


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## ttystikk (Jun 25, 2016)

@torontoke has been doing a lot of good work on short light cycles.


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## Budley Doright (Jun 25, 2016)

It worked to keep them from flowering with minimal power but nope didn't seem to produce more and not proven but actually seemed to lower yield for me so I stopped. And yes it's is an old technique used by mostly poinsettia growers at first I thought.


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## ttystikk (Jun 25, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> Bud blood, bud igniter, kool bloom. Actually we get 9-10 week strains to finish in 7


Interesting. You're the first to mention using nutes to accelerate things. 

You sure it doesn't have anything to do with your gaslight veg? That would be my prime suspect. 

I'd love to shorten my bloom cycle by a week, that would be 7 and a half turns a year!


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Interesting. You're the first to mention using nutes to accelerate things.
> 
> You sure it doesn't have anything to do with your gaslight veg? That would be my prime suspect.
> 
> I'd love to shorten my bloom cycle by a week, that would be 7 and a half turns a year!


Honestly the gas veg speeds up by 3-5 days as its a new thing to me. 18 hrs for 7 years now


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 25, 2016)

Gas lantern is great for sexing seeds though


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 25, 2016)

36 hrs dark excellent ares things by 5-9 days. The igniter and blood excell about 5 days. The koolbloom about 7 days. 
But then again the way I feed is different than most


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## ttystikk (Jun 25, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> 36 hrs dark excellent ares things by 5-9 days. The igniter and blood excell about 5 days. The koolbloom about 7 days.
> But then again the way I feed is different than most


I'm all ears, do tell. You do one 36 hour dark period at the onset of bloom?


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## Chillin chillin (Jun 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm all ears, do tell. You do one 36 hour dark period at the onset of bloom?


Yep yep. Ladies love it. Cubes nice n dry roots really thirsty when lights come back on.


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## torontoke (Jun 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Interesting. You're the first to mention using nutes to accelerate things.
> 
> You sure it doesn't have anything to do with your gaslight veg? That would be my prime suspect.
> 
> I'd love to shorten my bloom cycle by a week, that would be 7 and a half turns a year!


Using glr keeps the plants just on the verge of flowering so the switch whenever you do decide to switch seems instantaneous 1-2days from my experience.
So far I've found this to be the case with every strain I've tried except Swiss cheese they simply would not veg under glr.
Thanks for pulling me into this debate again lol


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## ttystikk (Jun 25, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Using glr keeps the plants just on the verge of flowering so the switch whenever you do decide to switch seems instantaneous 1-2days from my experience.
> So far I've found this to be the case with every strain I've tried except Swiss cheese they simply would not veg under glr.
> Thanks for pulling me into this debate again lol


Lol I know you love it. I'm adding more light to my veg and I'd like to see if I can shorten my bloom schedule to just 7 weeks. Both of these seem to point to me giving gaslight timing serious consideration.


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## STLbudz (Jun 25, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> http://cannabisni.com/2101/grow-bigger-and-better-saving-30-50-percent-on-your-energy-cost


This is how I kept my outdoor in veg during spring Id interrupt the rest cycle ... Going to try the flower times .. Got an extra tent and led


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## Keesje (Jul 15, 2016)

As always, I come in late in a discussion....
2,5 gramms per watt is possible.
If you veg forever, grow huge plants and flower a couple of months, on a big space and also consider fluffy weed as 'good' weed.

For a good comparison you need the following things:
Space x time x watt x gramm 
I hardly saw anyone who is doing 5 or 6 yields a year do more then 1 / 1.1 / 1.2 gramm per watt on a regular basis.
I know that with Led more gramms per watt are possible.
But even then I see yields that look so horrible, with all kinds of fluffy shit, and even the smallest nuggets which they count in.

If you grow from clones + 2 weeks veg + 8 weeks flowering in a space 4 x 4 under 1 x 600 W HPS, then you are an excellent grower if you yield 600 gramms of dense buds. 500 gramms = still very good. 700 gramms = superb, 800 gramms = wow, 900 gramms = buy a new scale.


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## BobCajun (Jul 15, 2016)

For max g/w yield you need to spread the light out as much as possible, probably 25-30 w/sq ft with LED. In this article, they got 422 g/m2 using 270w HPS, 497 g with 400w and 544 with 600w. So with the lowest intensity of 270w they got 1.56 g/w, with 400w 1.24 g/w and with 600w 0.9 g/w. So you can see that a large area is more important than high light intensity. You do get more yield but the returns on energy input diminish. 

Interestingly, they also gave the weight of THC produced in the flowers and the total weight of the flowers so you can calculate the potency by dividing, and turns out that the potency was the same in all light intensities, about 14.5%. So higher intensity does not mean higher potency. One of those 315w CMH should be just about right for 1 square meter.


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## Keesje (Jul 15, 2016)

I think if they would have posted pics of the weed they grew with 270 W per M2..... you probably would have cried.
99% sure that is was the most fluffy shit you've ever seen in your life.
So perhaps you do get more gramms per watt, but what about smell, look, quality?


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## BobCajun (Jul 15, 2016)

Keesje said:


> I think if they would have posted pics of the weed they grew with 270 W per M2..... you probably would have cried.
> 99% sure that is was the most fluffy shit you've ever seen in your life.
> So perhaps you do get more gramms per watt, but what about smell, look, quality?


IDK, but at least it's the same potency. Actually, I find that the buds under the brightest light are the harshest. But there may be some density issues, as you said.


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## ttystikk (Jul 15, 2016)

For some, it's about yield per watt at any cost. That's not efficient because of all the extra space and labor that must be taken into account. 

For me, I want good gpw alongside low hours and I want it done in as small a space as possible. THAT'S efficiency.


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## BobCajun (Jul 15, 2016)

I found that if I dim or use filters more lower leaves drop off. Pretty much need a good 60w/sq ft for good lower growth. That's exactly what I have now and it seems just right. Don't know if I'd want to go higher than that though. There's already minor burning.


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## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> I found that if I dim or use filters more lower leaves drop off. Pretty much need a good 60w/sq ft for good lower growth. That's exactly what I have now and it seems just right. Don't know if I'd want to go higher than that though. There's already minor burning.


Have you converted the output of your lighting to PAR Watts per sq ft? It's an eye opener, especially when comparing to COB LED.


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## BobCajun (Jul 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Have you converted the output of your lighting to PAR Watts per sq ft? It's an eye opener, especially when comparing to COB LED.


It's actually CXB COBs that I'm using, just supplemented with a few red CFLs because the COBs are 4000k. The study I mentioned was with HPS, that's all. I assume you'd get better yields with COBs, maybe 2 g/w, at similar wattages.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> It's actually CXB COBs that I'm using, just supplemented with a few red CFLs because the COBs are 4000k. The study I mentioned was with HPS, that's all. I assume you'd get better yields with COBs, maybe 2 g/w, at similar wattages.


You're running 60W/sq ft of COB LED? No wonder you're burning them!


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## BobCajun (Jul 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You're running 60W/sq ft of COB LED? No wonder you're burning them!


No there's no burning with the COBs, that was when I used a small HPS in a veg cabinet. Just some bleaching if they get too close. Not hot in there though, if you stick your hand in. The heatsink is outside the top of the chamber.


----------



## since1991 (Jul 17, 2016)

ive got to get into this COB lighting. Seems so damn overwhelming though. You guys talk in a lingo thats so foreign to what iam used to with HID lighting.


----------



## BobCajun (Jul 17, 2016)

since1991 said:


> ive got to get into this COB lighting. Seems so damn overwhelming though. You guys talk in a lingo thats so foreign to what iam used to with HID lighting.


Just browse through the LED forum and you'll get it within a week or two. I didn't use a DIY version myself, just bought CXB high bays. Didn't need the reflectors though. I also took the driver and rigging off the fixture for less heat and weight. I put a long wire on the driver instead. It's like just a disc now, a couple inches thick. Here's a link to one site selling them. I used one in each 3'x1.5'x5' chamber, about 18" above the plants. Plus I added four 13w red CFLs.


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## since1991 (Jul 17, 2016)

So the driver is basically like a ballast rite? And whats this BIN stuff? Like a sorting number?


----------



## since1991 (Jul 17, 2016)

Iam all about lowering my electric bill every month if i knew i could get the same or greater yields than 8 Gavitas 6/750's...4 old school 1000's. And a pricey big ass mini split and commercial dehuey.


----------



## coreywebster (Jul 17, 2016)

since1991 said:


> So the driver is basically like a ballast rite? And whats this BIN stuff? Like a sorting number?


I was going to try and explain it but I'm only a hps guy for now so..
Binning
http://blog.luxexcel.com/lighting/led-binning-ansi/


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## Thorhax (Jul 17, 2016)

1200w vero 29
first run 3.1 pounds 1.2gpw (7 week veg)
second run 5.2 pounds 1.9gpw (10 week veg)
this third run we are expecting 6 pounds cause there are a lot longer colas. hopefully 2.3gpw... (12 week veg)


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## since1991 (Jul 17, 2016)

Thorhax said:


> 1200w vero 29
> first run 3.1 pounds 1.2gpw (7 week veg)
> second run 5.2 pounds 1.9gpw (10 week veg)
> this third run we are expecting 6 pounds cause there are a lot longer colas. hopefully 2.3gpw... (12 week veg)


WTF??? Damn those are just silly numbers
I got to do this COB game. Its just stupid not to. Wow.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

Thorhax said:


> 1200w vero 29
> first run 3.1 pounds 1.2gpw (7 week veg)
> second run 5.2 pounds 1.9gpw (10 week veg)
> this third run we are expecting 6 pounds cause there are a lot longer colas. hopefully 2.3gpw... (12 week veg)


Those are some eyebrow raising numbers. I'd like to see more.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

pergamum362 said:


> Very eye brow raising numbers. Currently sitting at between .85-9x using aircooled conventional 1ks in soilless mix. Changing things up this run, no aircooled, just big ass mini split, no glass and added co2.
> 
> By the next run i hope to be converted to tables using drippers in rockwool. I have been told by others that switching the conventionals to de lamps would give me a signifant boost, but i got 7ft cielings. Maybe 600 watt de lamps are an option?
> 
> Whats the cost on buying a premade cob led lighting system?


I'd say cost of top quality COB LED is about $100/sq ft retail, and a bit more than half that to DIY. I split the difference and paid about $60.


----------



## Thorhax (Jul 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Those are some eyebrow raising numbers. I'd like to see more.


I post pics up on my thread every week of the progress and all my different rooms. Always welcome to drop in


----------



## Thorhax (Jul 17, 2016)

since1991 said:


> WTF??? Damn those are just silly numbers
> I got to do this COB game. Its just stupid not to. Wow.


I thought numbers like that were impossible. Then I met someone who pulled 14oz from 300w of hoT5 and 18oz from 400w hps. 

A big factor in yield is how you train your plants.


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## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

pergamum362 said:


> Holy cow ass bro...around 2500$ to cover a 5x5? Your telling me id be looking at about a 20k us dollar bill to convert completely?


You could do well for half that. You might look at the Johnson Grow Light Maximizer, that would kick ass in a 5x5. Other options abound, just insist top bin Cree CXB3590 chips. Northern Grow Lights is another good option. Or Tasty LED.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

pergamum362 said:


> Well i was going to give cob led a chance with at least swapping one lamp out, but after looking at a price tag of 1700 dollars for the one lamp..ill just continue on planning the swap to 600 watt nanolux de lamps.


Well, think of it as a long term investment. Returns include;

No bulb or reflector changes, ever
More efficient means less power, more buds
Much lower heat signature, leading to additional HVAC operation savings
Better spectrum gives product quality improvements. You can see it, smell it, taste it and feel it
More yield, depending on how it's deployed
With all these advantages, it will definitely pay for itself- sooner rather than later!


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## a mongo frog (Jul 17, 2016)

pergamum362 said:


> Holy cow ass bro...around 2500$


I don't think thats the


pergamum362 said:


> Well i was going to give cob led a chance with at least swapping one lamp out, but after looking at a price tag of 1700 dollars for the one lamp..ill just continue on planning the swap to 600 watt nanolux de lamps.


I have the 1215 watt nanolux DE, I just bought 750watts of cobs to see what the 2 did vs each other. If the quality is the same or better and the yield is same or better its worth switching in my book.


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## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

pergamum362 said:


> Maybe if the end product still had a market value of 3-400 a zip..but damn, not in this market.


Lower costs mean maintaining your profit margin, especially in an environment of falling prices. That's basic economics 101 brother, I recommend you take heed or LED growers will be making weed for less than your light bulbs can compete with from now on.

How do I know this? Because I'm on the front line of the agricultural lighting industry and the entire industry is busy right now, finding ways to get out of the business of selling light bulbs.


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## Thorhax (Jul 17, 2016)

pergamum362 said:


> Looking at tasty leds, the T4-2100 series model...300 watts or so @a price tag of about 700 dollars. If i could get a 3x2 coverage area out of it??id be willing to give it a shot and compare the quality myself, after all im all for quality improvements more so than yield.


Build your own for cheaper. Timber grow lights and cutter electronics have diy packages that make building these things cake. Timber even has a lot of it prebuilt and the wires color coated.


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## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

pergamum362 said:


> Looking at tasty leds, the T4-2100 series model...300 watts or so @a price tag of about 700 dollars. If i could get a 3x2 coverage area out of it??id be willing to give it a shot and compare the quality myself, after all im all for quality improvements more so than yield.


You'll love it, I guarantee!

See for yourself; look at the last few pics of my thread, link in my signature line.


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## pergamum362 (Jul 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You'll love it, I guarantee!
> 
> See for yourself; look at the last few pics of my thread, link in my signature line.


Thats a nice space covered for 225 watts, plants look great. Will it cover the same space in flower and still produce tight nugs?


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## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

pergamum362 said:


> Thats a nice space covered for 225 watts, plants look great. Will it cover the same space in flower and still produce tight nugs?


One reason those girls look so good is because they are getting bloom strength lighting in that space. 

I'm already getting a gram per watt in bloom, with a long way to go before I can call it dialed in.


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## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

pergamum362 said:


> Just browsed through, and those prices seem more reasonable to me. Pretty sure i can handle wiring stuff, i am a certified A&P mechanic.


A&P? What do you fix? I had a lil training in high school as a kid, it was a blast. 

With those skills going for you, building COB LED lighting will be an exercise in wondering where the hard part is. Lots of great places to get top quality parts here on RIU. Just head over to the LED lighting section and start reading, it's what I did.


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## since1991 (Jul 17, 2016)

pergamum362 said:


> Very eye brow raising numbers. Currently sitting at between .85-9x using aircooled conventional 1ks in soilless mix. Changing things up this run, no aircooled, just big ass mini split, no glass and added co2.
> 
> By the next run i hope to be converted to tables using drippers in rockwool. I have been told by others that switching the conventionals to de lamps would give me a signifant boost, but i got 7ft cielings. Maybe 600 watt de lamps are an option?
> 
> Whats the cost on buying a premade cob led lighting system?


Me n you broseph are in the same boat. One room i gots gavita doubles...yields about 2 per on the 750 setting (flex 6/750's) and the other room with 4 single ended thouies i yields about the same per lamp. Depending on strain and how much gumption i got to manage that canopy. Sometimes i get real lazy on a run and it shows. Maybe only 25 zips when my ass gets goofy. Depends on 5he cut too. Sin City stuff gets real floppy and low yield by nature. Damn the nutrient brands...with a dialed setup..with sealed room and co2...climate controlled dealy...canopy management is key and how much time iam willing to spend to get two plus a lamp.


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## since1991 (Jul 17, 2016)

About every other crop i get "serious" and prop that canopy rite....out of revenge from the last lazy run. And it totally shows.


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## since1991 (Jul 17, 2016)

Seriously though...you cob cats got it. Iam a true believer. You fukers are on to something. And i can tell its no bullshit. Obvious as hell yer pulling silly numbers with less electric bill. You all have piqued my interest...big time.


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## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

pergamum362 said:


> Canopy management is pretty much all i do when im in there lol. Im working with low cielings like you(same state, tom?) if i can keep my 2 or so a light with the 600w nano luxs, ill be one happy person.
> 
> @ttystikk I fix planes lol, or used too. I quit about five years ago to garden full time.


I knew that from the A&P. Which planes? I worked on a Hughes 200, a Hughes 500 and we were starting on a Cessna when I left for the summer. Just the exposure did wonders for me in the long run.


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## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

pergamum362 said:


> You ever think about incorporating trellis in there to tone down the amount of managment needed? Its what i did, now the actually training is usually limited to veg, maybe a few tweaks here and there after the stretch.


I trellis too but there's still some time involved.


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## since1991 (Jul 17, 2016)

pergamum362 said:


> You ever think about incorporating trellis in there to tone down the amount of managment needed? Its what i did, now the actually training is usually limited to veg, maybe a few tweaks here and there after the stretch.


Yes. I do a net trellis. Sometimes a double tier trellis for certain strains.


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## since1991 (Jul 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I trellis too but there's still some time involved.


Yer god damn rite Stikk...still work huh?


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## since1991 (Jul 17, 2016)

Like ole Subcool said once in High Times...."In the end...after all is said and done...we are really just farmers" ...!!!!!


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## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

pergamum362 said:


> I was being trained on 727s when i quit. The actual job was not what i thought it was going to be. Remove this, put it back on etc etc. mind numbingly boring. I had less than a years exp when i quit lol, worst 28k i ever spent going to that school.


First few years sucks, then you move up and things get much more interesting, expensive and eventually lucrative. 

But growing weed is still better lol


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## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Like ole Subcool said once in High Times...."In the end...after all is said and done...we are really just farmers" ...!!!!!


An amazing command of the obvious, lol


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## since1991 (Jul 17, 2016)

I wish i knew how to post pics of this ripper iam fixin to chop in 5 days. Stupid Metro phone. I really have no clue. Yall prolly think ole Since be bowshittin' but i swears to each and everyone of you. I gots canopy too dammit


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## since1991 (Jul 17, 2016)

I got that drooling pic...yall know what i mean. Where one giant cola pokes through every square of the net


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## since1991 (Jul 17, 2016)

Sour og and chem 4 og in the back. Front is Blue petrol. Dammit man. Yall would dig this


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## ttystikk (Jul 28, 2016)

Another approach to yields; 
https://www.rollitup.org/t/ttystikks-vertical-goodness.787572/page-129#post-12813302


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