# Gavita 1000's with 8 foot ceilings...



## wesley90 (Nov 3, 2015)

I am planning a flood and drain setup and have read multiple threads about how people aren't able to get enough space between their plants and the Gravitas...My concern is with the height of the drain table that there may not be enough space...Anyone know the distance required between the plants and the light?


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## Aeroknow (Nov 3, 2015)

wesley90 said:


> I am planning a flood and drain setup and have read multiple threads about how people aren't able to get enough space between their plants and the Gravitas...My concern is with the height of the drain table that there may not be enough space...Anyone know the distance required between the plants and the light?


3' for 1150 watts works everytime. I can get them a little closer, but 3' is good
Can you take off the ballast and run it remotely? I personally haven't ran gavitas, but I run phantom DE's where you can mount the ballast remotely, and save some height.


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## shanepdx (Nov 3, 2015)

hard to do with less than 10' unless you are able to run unlimited plant count and keep them super short. I run 16 750 gavitas with 9' ceilings and trays and it is tight.


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## wesley90 (Nov 3, 2015)

shanepdx said:


> hard to do with less than 10' unless you are able to run unlimited plant count and keep them super short. I run 16 750 gavitas with 9' ceilings and trays and it is tight.


I am looking to keep them short, like in this post:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/get-a-harvest-every-2-weeks.6592/

I believe he only allows them to grow 3 feet tall...how tall are your trays off of the ground? If I can keep the trays 2 feet off the ground it should be ok...I want to do a perpetual grow like the grow in the link above.


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## wesley90 (Nov 3, 2015)

Aeroknow said:


> 3' for 1150 watts works everytime. I can get them a little closer, but 3' is good
> Can you take off the ballast and run it remotely? I personally haven't ran gavitas, but I run phantom DE's where you can mount the ballast remotely, and save some height.


Is there any RF interference the the phantoms? I am looking at the Gravitas because they are the best in the industry from what I have read.


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## shanepdx (Nov 3, 2015)

My trays are on a wood cart with wheels, approx 6" off the ground. here is my math;
9' ceilings
-2' for tray,cart, and pot (7gal.)
-1.5' for fixture
-3' canopy distance from light.
leaves 2.5' for plant

I went with the 750's because of the above math. I was told that 1000's need a foot or so more than the 750's

YMMV


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## patrickkawi37 (Nov 3, 2015)

get the 6/750. If the 1ks get closer than 3 feet they don't perform any better than a regular 1k. Too much light and heat .


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## Aeroknow (Nov 3, 2015)

wesley90 said:


> Is there any RF interference the the phantoms? I am looking at the Gravitas because they are the best in the industry from what I have read.


No RF interference
Oh, and have you checked out nanolux? The way they orient the ballast reduces wasted height. Hearing allot of good shit about them lately


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## wesley90 (Nov 3, 2015)

patrickkawi37 said:


> get the 6/750. If the 1ks get closer than 3 feet they don't perform any better than a regular 1k. Too much light and heat .


As Gavitas or a different brand? The 6/750 Gavitas are only like 30 dollars cheaper than the 1000w from the source I am looking at...not that it matters, what works is what matters, but curious as to which 6/750's you reccomend.


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## wesley90 (Nov 3, 2015)

Aeroknow said:


> No RF interference
> Oh, and have you checked out nanolux? The way they orient the ballast reduces wasted height. Hearing allot of good shit about them lately


The new nanolux CMH 630 watt system? Isn't CMH only for veg? Oh, and I didn't mention this earlier but there will be no veg at all, the clones will go straight to 12/12


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## Aeroknow (Nov 3, 2015)

wesley90 said:


> The new nanolux CMH 630 watt system? Isn't CMH only for veg? Oh, and I didn't mention this earlier but there will be no veg at all, the clones will go straight to 12/12


http://www.bghydro.com/nanolux-de-double-ended-1000-watt-fixture-240v-complete-system.html


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## wesley90 (Nov 3, 2015)

Oh, nm, I see the nanolux 1000 watter...but I dont think I have enough room even with that with 8' ceilings!


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## Aeroknow (Nov 3, 2015)

wesley90 said:


> Oh, nm, I see the nanolux 1000 watter...but I dont think I have enough room even with that with 8' ceilings!


How high are your trays?


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## wesley90 (Nov 3, 2015)

I haven't gotten any yet...still planning things out...I would like to have a setup comparable with https://www.rollitup.org/t/get-a-harvest-every-2-weeks.6592/

Any suggestions keeping in mind the 8' ceilings?


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## Aeroknow (Nov 3, 2015)

wesley90 said:


> I haven't gotten any yet...still planning things out...I would like to have a setup comparable with https://www.rollitup.org/t/get-a-harvest-every-2-weeks.6592/
> 
> Any suggestions keeping in mind the 8' ceilings?


Yes, a run-to-waste sog setup
The tray/s would only need to be about 6" off the ground, basically just high enough to accommodate drain fitting and an elbow. This is assuming you can pipe the drainage out of the growroom this way.
Couple that with the DE setup i'm talking about, it's doable. I do it at one of my setups
16 plants per 4'x4' tray. A basket drip stake per plant(2 is safer though). I prefer 1 gal mesh bottom pots with coco. But have done it with other media many times.

If you can mount the hood(without ballast, or that nanolux) directly to eye bolts in the ceiling: between the fixture and the 3' space needed, that's a little less than 4'. Leaves you a little more than 4' for tray and plants


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## wesley90 (Nov 3, 2015)

Aeroknow said:


> Yes, a run-to-waste sog setup
> The tray/s would only need to be about 6" off the ground, basically just high enough to accommodate drain fitting and an elbow. This is assuming you can pipe the drainage out of the growroom this way.
> Couple that with the DE setup i'm talking about, it's doable. I do it at one of my setups
> 16 plants per 4'x4' tray. A basket drip stake per plant(2 is safer though). I prefer 1 gal mesh bottom pots with coco. But have done it with other media many times.
> ...


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## wesley90 (Nov 3, 2015)

Aeroknow said:


> Yes, a run-to-waste sog setup
> The tray/s would only need to be about 6" off the ground, basically just high enough to accommodate drain fitting and an elbow. This is assuming you can pipe the drainage out of the growroom this way.
> Couple that with the DE setup i'm talking about, it's doable. I do it at one of my setups
> 16 plants per 4'x4' tray. A basket drip stake per plant(2 is safer though). I prefer 1 gal mesh bottom pots with coco. But have done it with other media many times.
> ...


Do you have any pics or designs of the DTW setup? Honestly I haven't looked into DTW at all.

How much more money are you spending on nutrients/water vs. a regular F&D setup?


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## Aeroknow (Nov 3, 2015)

wesley90 said:


> Do you have any pics or designs of the DTW setup? Honestly I haven't looked into DTW at all.
> 
> How much more money are you spending on nutrients/water vs. a regular F&D setup?


I don't have many pics on my phone atm, but I'll try to put together some pics for you in the near future.
You know, i've done practically every type of setup out there over the years, and, there's really not that much more nutes used in run to waste. If run to waste does use more(it's close), nickel dime IMO.


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## wesley90 (Nov 3, 2015)

Aeroknow said:


> I don't have many pics on my phone atm, but I'll try to put together some pics for you in the near future.
> You know, i've done practically every type of setup out there over the years, and, there's really not that much more nutes used in run to waste. If run to waste does use more(it's close), nickel dime IMO.


OK, awesome!

So for a 4'x4' tray, how big of a res are you using? How often does it need to be refilled?

Also, with the tray 6" off the ground, how are you draining the water out? I assume you have the tray parrellel to the ground and use a tap thru the bottom of the tray (just like F&D) and collect the waste in a small bin underneath the tray...are you using like a submersible pump to drain out the waste water from the waste bin?


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## Aeroknow (Nov 3, 2015)

wesley90 said:


> OK, awesome!
> 
> So for a 4'x4' tray, how big of a res are you using? How often does it need to be refilled?
> 
> Also, with the tray 6" off the ground, how are you draining the water out? I assume you have the tray parrellel to the ground and use a tap thru the bottom of the tray (just like F&D) and collect the waste in a small bin underneath the tray...are you using like a submersible pump to drain out the waste water from the waste bin?


In this situation, you would need a low profile reservoir. A 50gal botanicare rez should last you about, oh i dunno, about 4-5 days? Depends on how thirsty the plants are.
Read that post i posted earlier if you would. I'm talking about running drain tubing directly out the growroom/building. Collecting runoff and then pumping it out works no problem in other setups, but that extra height would fuck what you are trying to achieve here


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## patrickkawi37 (Nov 3, 2015)

wesley90 said:


> As Gavitas or a different brand? The 6/750 Gavitas are only like 30 dollars cheaper than the 1000w from the source I am looking at...not that it matters, what works is what matters, but curious as to which 6/750's you reccomend.


And for good reason. It doesn't seem like anyone is able to convince you but I will say.. The 6/750 is smashing my 1k raptors with 8 foot ceiling. I have 1k gavitas in a 9 foot room and for my growing style they don't work . Too close to the canopy . Less yield than raptor 1ks


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## wesley90 (Nov 4, 2015)

patrickkawi37 said:


> And for good reason. It doesn't seem like anyone is able to convince you but I will say.. The 6/750 is smashing my 1k raptors with 8 foot ceiling. I have 1k gavitas in a 9 foot room and for my growing style they don't work . Too close to the canopy . Less yield than raptor 1ks


No, I am convinced! I dont like to get married to ideas when I don't have much experience =)


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## wesley90 (Nov 4, 2015)

Aeroknow said:


> In this situation, you would need a low profile reservoir. A 50gal botanicare rez should last you about, oh i dunno, about 4-5 days? Depends on how thirsty the plants are.
> Read that post i posted earlier if you would. I'm talking about running drain tubing directly out the growroom/building. Collecting runoff and then pumping it out works no problem in other setups, but that extra height would fuck what you are trying to achieve here


Yeah I saw that, unfortunately runoff to the lawn isn't something I am comfortable with. I do have a sink that I could pump to though!

A couple questions if you don't mind:

1. Now for the table itself, do you have it higher from the ground on one end and the drain on the lower end of the table to help drain the water out? Is there any other effective way of draining the table without slanting it?

2. I am designing the table right now, and I think I can get away with a table that sits about 16" high. I would like to use drips lines for each pot like you do. So for 16 plants, 2 drips in each pot, a total of 32 outlets...What pump are you using? Seems like I would need to get a couple Y connectors to split up all those drips...
Also, how wide are the drip lines that are actually at the plants?

3. When it comes to feeding, I know the amount all depends on the size of the plants/age etc...but approximatly how often are you feeding and for how long in each dose?

Sorry for the multiple questions, I just want to make sure I have every aspect planned out so I don't hit a wall...I like doing things right the first time around!

Thanks man!


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## Carolina Dream'n (Nov 4, 2015)

I have done it for a while now. Just like @Aeroknow i do DTW flood tables a few inches off the ground. 55 gallon Rez with a watering system persisting of hydro halos. 6 in rockwool on coco mats. My Rez has a float valve and a nutrient/ph doser. I can put the plants in flower and not worry about them. my equipment does 95% of the work for me.


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## Aeroknow (Nov 4, 2015)

wesley90 said:


> Yeah I saw that, unfortunately runoff to the lawn isn't something I am comfortable with. I do have a sink that I could pump to though!
> 
> A couple questions if you don't mind:
> 
> ...


I don't think a pump to evacuate run off is going to work in this situation. The feeds are automated. So, unless you were to automate the drain pump also, it wouldn't be a good idea.
1. Yes. Slope is needed to drain completely. 1/2" is plenty for a 4x4.
2. See pic below: that would do a 4x4 with 16 plants(but only one drip stake per plant).
But in you case, i would put two elbows on the ends and connect both manifolds with a piece of tubing. It would make for even better/even distribution.
1/4" tubing for drip stakes, 1/2" for the rest.
You wouldn't need a pump larger than 500gph(overkill), for 16 drip lines(1 per plant). If two lines per, you'd need more. I don't do two, because i live dangerously
3. At first they get watered when needed. Then it gradually gets ramped up to 3X's per light cycle. Feed times depend on the pump action. I time it until it achieves runoff, then round up to the next minute. So, if it takes 40 seconds to achieve runoff, i'll set the timer for 1min. If it takes 90 seconds, I'll set it to 2min. You could totally dial the feed times in better with a cycle timer, but i'm old school, and dangerous


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## wesley90 (Nov 4, 2015)

Hey, thanks for the quick reply! Your being too good to me =)

"But in you case, i would put two elbows on the ends and connect both manifolds with a piece of tubing. It would make for even better/even distribution."

I am trying to envision this but having trouble doing so...do you mean at the very ends where your caps are and connecting the 2 ends?

Do you have a link for that dripper your using there? The type of manifold I was looking at was different, didn't allow the flexibility like you have on the one in that picture.

Also, with the Botonicare tray, did you just drill 1 hole for drainage at the end or more than 1? I was thinking about drilling 3 in a row width wise so that the water on the edges doesn't puddle.


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## wesley90 (Nov 4, 2015)

http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Rain-Bird-Drip-Irrigation-Emitter-p/xbd-80.htm

That is what I was looking at but I like your setup much more!


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## Aeroknow (Nov 4, 2015)

wesley90 said:


> Hey, thanks for the quick reply! Your being too good to me =)
> 
> "But in you case, i would put two elbows on the ends and connect both manifolds with a piece of tubing. It would make for even better/even distribution."
> 
> ...


Yeah you got it, instead of those end caps, connect both lenghts together. The one in the pic is from a 4x8 table. I do it a little different in 4x8's.
Flexible 1/2" tubing:

Basket dripper stake:

Just one drain in the tray is enough

Are you buying a flood tray, or building one?

All the 1/2" tee's and elbows are available at hardware stores(black and green), same with the 1/4" barbed fittings


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## Aeroknow (Nov 4, 2015)

wesley90 said:


> http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Rain-Bird-Drip-Irrigation-Emitter-p/xbd-80.htm
> 
> That is what I was looking at but I like your setup much more!


Those have been out for quite a while, and I've never even considered using them. I can just see them getting clogged up, and killing allot of plants.
Hardware stores usually sell 1/2" inline filters(no pic today, they are in use at different location)
If you have the inline filter installed, don't have too crazy of hard water, and you don't use organics or semi-organics(i like maxibloom), clogs are very rare

Question for you:
Do you already grow? If so, in what medium?


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## wesley90 (Nov 4, 2015)

Aeroknow said:


> Those have been out for quite a while, and I've never even considered using them. I can just see them getting clogged up, and killing allot of plants.
> Hardware stores usually sell 1/2" inline filters(no pic today, they are in use at different location)
> If you have the inline filter installed, don't have too crazy of hard water, and you don't use organics or semi-organics(i like maxibloom), clogs are very rare
> 
> ...


I actually would use RO water, I use RO water anyways for my drinking water.
I have done 2 grows...one about 15 years ago and one about 2 years ago...the one 15 years ago was when OG was still around and it was a DWC and the most recent one was a soil. Honestly both were half-assed...I had too much going on in my life to mess with them. Now I have much more space and time to work on this type of project =)

With that 1/2" line you have there, I am assuming you drill the holes/install the grommets for the 1/4" lines?

Thanks bro.


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## Aeroknow (Nov 4, 2015)

Get urself one of these:


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## wesley90 (Nov 4, 2015)

Aeroknow said:


> Get urself one of these:
> View attachment 3535615


Yeah, I was being lazy when I asked the previous question, found the answer with a simple search 

You know, since I haven't grown in a while I think it may be best for me to start off smaller than my original plan for the first run...I would hate to buy/do all that work just to face a bunch of issues due to inexperience.

I think it would be best for me to start out with soil...any suggestions on the following are much appreciated!

750 watt HPS (I am guessing this would need to be air cooled as well?)
3x4 or 4x4 tent
Fox farm soil
Seperate shelf/tent for seedlings/clones
Exhaust system
pH meter
Temp/RH meter

I know the above doesn't include strain/veg time/flower time but I just want to give a basic run down of the environment. I do need to see if additional ferts will be needed as well as if I should add other items, such as perlite, to the base media. Any other suggestions?

Thanks again bro, really appreciate it!


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## Aeroknow (Nov 5, 2015)

wesley90 said:


> Yeah, I was being lazy when I asked the previous question, found the answer with a simple search
> 
> You know, since I haven't grown in a while I think it may be best for me to start off smaller than my original plan for the first run...I would hate to buy/do all that work just to face a bunch of issues due to inexperience.
> 
> ...


Fax farm OF soil will only last you so long. Usually about three weeks, until you need to start feeding. Transplanting into new soil gives the plants a little more time before needing fed, but you can only up-pot so many times. So I say go rite to a soiless like promix hp. It's ready rite out the bale(needs broken up a little bit but no biggie)no extra perlite needed, nothin. But plants in promix need fed right away. I like an easy 1-part like GH's maxi or their floranova. If your starting water is decent, no extra nutrient or additive is needed to grow the biggest and best bud the genetics you have allow. Don't play the additive game!
It's really easy, if you keep it simple.


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## wesley90 (Nov 5, 2015)

Aeroknow said:


> Fax farm OF soil will only last you so long. Usually about three weeks, until you need to start feeding. Transplanting into new soil gives the plants a little more time before needing fed, but you can only up-pot so many times. So I say go rite to a soiless like promix hp. It's ready rite out the bale(needs broken up a little bit but no biggie)no extra perlite needed, nothin. But plants in promix need fed right away. I like an easy 1-part like GH's maxi or their floranova. If your starting water is decent, no extra nutrient or additive is needed to grow the biggest and best bud the genetics you have allow. Don't play the additive game!
> It's really easy, if you keep it simple.


Well there is another reason too...significant other doesn't want ANY hydro, only soil...actually that's the main reason. Shes doesn't understand and refuses to even learn about hydro. I just didn't want to cop to it earlier =)


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## Frazer (Dec 18, 2015)

Aeroknow said:


> Yes, a run-to-waste sog setup
> The tray/s would only need to be about 6" off the ground, basically just high enough to accommodate drain fitting and an elbow. This is assuming you can pipe the drainage out of the growroom this way.
> Couple that with the DE setup i'm talking about, it's doable. I do it at one of my setups
> 16 plants per 4'x4' tray. A basket drip stake per plant(2 is safer though). I prefer 1 gal mesh bottom pots with coco. But have done it with other media many times.
> ...


There's a DE out now that does a solid 4'x4' footprint. It doesn't throw the light out light regular hoods. It's a deep hood. It's supposed to keep the footprint tighter. It's 120v too! Nanolux makes them.


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## stonius (Aug 6, 2019)

wesley90 said:


> I am planning a flood and drain setup and have read multiple threads about how people aren't able to get enough space between their plants and the Gravitas...My concern is with the height of the drain table that there may not be enough space...Anyone know the distance required between the plants and the light?


I have been running phantom 1000 de under 8 foot ceilings for 3 years now and now bought a gavita 1000 de To get enough space I have 2 lowboy 40 gallon resiviors under my 4x4 tables My 4x4 tables sit 13.5 inches off the floor my phantoms with good air circulation you could put lights 2 feet over canopy but I still would go 3 feet which will allow 30 to 36 inch plants Switching from air cooled hoods and regular hps a pound per table was the norm but with my phantom de 1000 my yield went up to 1.5 pounds a table . With my gavita 1000 de they recommend 40 inches between light and canopy I expect 2 pound tables with gavita i will update when i have proof


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## Renfro (Aug 6, 2019)

The way those gavitas or most DE's really shine is in a building with really tall ceilings. You hang them all way up high and let them all blend together. The plants get hit from all directions. Yes the inverse square law says the light from a single source will get weaker as it goes further, but thats only because it is spreading out. The light isnt lost. So when all the lights blend together you get the PPFD and the plants love it because it's more like outdoors. One factor is the room should be as large as possible because walls are the enemy. That means you don't want to bust a large facility up into several smaller flowering rooms. That can have it's own downsides that should be considered. With the tall ceilings all the heat goes up and you don't have to worry about it as much if you leave that hot air layer undisturbed and vent it through roof vents.


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## IIReignManII (Aug 8, 2019)

Is there an LED option that is as good or better yield than Gavitas?


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## Apalchen (Aug 8, 2019)

IIReignManII said:


> Is there an LED option that is as good or better yield than Gavitas?


I don't believe so, many would prob disagree. It also depends on your setup and goals. Gavita's new led and Spyder fixtures are the only ones I see coming even close to a de hps and I still don't believe that your going to pull the same yield per sq ft. Doesn't mean you can't pull the same yield you just need more floor space to do it, so if you had a big room but didn't have the electrical capacity to use all de 1k fixtures you could use led to light up more space with the same watts resulting in lower yield per sq ft but more sq ft of canopy allowing for good yield. Hopefully this makes sense and it's just my opinion some of the led guys will swear it's possible to get same yield per sq ft but I've yet to see any credible results that show that to be true.


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## Renfro (Aug 8, 2019)

Apalchen said:


> it's just my opinion some of the led guys will swear it's possible to get same yield per sq ft but I've yet to see any credible results that show that to be true.


Well my tent run I pulled 15.5 zipz out of a 2x4 with 3 runts in an 8 plant run. I think if those runts had been bigger it would have been at least 3 zips more so. That impressed me so much with quality and yield that I decided to build 6 lights to replace my DE's in the daytime flowering room to help with heat. So we shall see but I used to think just like you on the LED.


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## Apalchen (Aug 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Well my tent run I pulled 15.5 zipz out of a 2x4 with 3 runts in an 8 plant run. I think if those runts had been bigger it would have been at least 3 zips more so. That impressed me so much with quality and yield that I decided to build 6 lights to replace my DE's in the daytime flowering room to help with heat. So we shall see but I used to think just like you on the LED.


I know and I'm waiting to see how you do, I hope all goes well if anyone can make me a believer would be you. That being said I think led lights perform great for tents, I've just yet to see anyone running de fixtures in a big room replace them and be happy with it. I have seen one or two 2 table grows with the Spyder and gavita LEDs that look close to being the same so I'm not saying it can't be done but I've yet to see a credible source do it on large scale in a traditional style grow.


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