# using sugared water



## smellzlikeskunkyum (Mar 31, 2009)

alot of you probably have at least heard of adding molasses when watering your plants. i was reading a high times the other day and someone asked jorge cervantes about using dr. pepper
he explained that while it wont make your weed any sweeter, the plant uses the sugar as food. so in turn he says it can make your buds up to 20% bigger when done right. he explained also that he has tried using different sources of sugar: dessert wines, actual sugar (probably from canes) and so on...

i just want to know if any of you have tried doing this (most likely molasses) at all, and if you liked the results

also couldnt you use honey? i mean thats kinda organic isnt it? if you raise honey bees or know someone who does shouldnt you use that?


----------



## Realclosetgreenz (Mar 31, 2009)

Yeah dude i use SUGAR IN THE RAW. its free from starbucks or bought at the store. its pure cane sugar grown in Maui Hawaii. Natural volcanic soil gives the Cane an extra sweet taste and a tint of brown, Natural molasses. I cant give you my regimen. but it works great!--


----------



## bicycle racer (Mar 31, 2009)

dont use refined sugar it is stripped of all nutrients besides the carbohydrates themselves it wont hurt anything but better results can be had with other sources as they have minor and major nutrients besides just the carbs. use mollases or un-refined cane sugar or any other simple carbohydrate that is not processed or some of the commercial products available such as sweet or carboload which are an amalgem of carbohydrate sources. also soda is carbonated and contains various ph affecting acids and preservatives.


----------



## lampshade (Mar 31, 2009)

Yeah i agree with bicycle dont use soda, full of flavoring and perservatives that will hurt the plant, and lots of sodium which is torture for plants. Use cane sugar or molasses honey would work even corn syrup. In the past we used to think roots couldnt absorb large molecules like sugar but we are now findng out they can just very poorly. Its actually more effective to foliar feed with a light sugar solution then spray with water later to get off the residue. 

Providing excess sugar to a plant will force a plant to stop growing vegatativly and make it produce fruit or buds. Everytime i use molasses water i see a swelling overnight everytime. Lamp


----------



## bicycle racer (Mar 31, 2009)

also if your growing in soil microbial action will be enhanced when using proper sugars which is very important for nutrient uptake root health and overall taste finish weight and general quality of the finished product.


----------



## smellzlikeskunkyum (Apr 1, 2009)

so id bet either honey or molasses would be a wise choice, possibly molasses do to it being more soluable in water? and yeah soda i thought was silly when i read it , you might as well use corn syrup and skip the nasty crap

can you use honey/molasses along with nutes without problems?


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 1, 2009)

i cant imagine honey would hurt anything i love the stuff plus high in some of the b-vitamins. b-1 in particular is valuable for plants mollases is probably best as it has many nutrients besides the carbohydrates like magnesium etc... most people use about a teaspoon to a table spoon a gallon but dont use it in most hydro setups it will cause various problems.


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 1, 2009)

and yes you can use it with your normal ferts and other supps as it has little impact on n.p.k.


----------



## lampshade (Apr 1, 2009)

bicycle racer said:


> and yes you can use it with your normal ferts and other supps as it has little impact on n.p.k.


One more tiny thing, also every now and again dont use sugar, to get some of the stickiness out of the soil. I just use molasses with every other watering. Lamp


----------



## inval (Apr 2, 2009)

I use Advance Nutrients Carbo Load and have had great results. I use it in my res but I also spray it directly on the buds with my fert right on through late stage flowering. I've heard that to really take advantage of carbo loading you should actually use it as a foliar mix. I got incredible results last time. It brought out all these delightful fruit flavors and allowed the plants to develop an outstanding lime/citrus flavor and aroma. I'm growing a Maui/Chem Dog cross: Maui Super Dog and Mango Haze.


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 2, 2009)

yes carboload is a good product contrary to what people say it is not all mollases and contains an important carbohydrate source called deoxy ribose which is rapidly available to plants and microbes as well as mammals many athletes use it for energy good stuff.


----------



## krunchy (Apr 2, 2009)

I'm using liquid karma right now... is that doing the same sort of thing that molasses does? Or would I benefit from adding it as well? I'm almost at week 3 of flowering.


----------



## xxacehighxx (Apr 3, 2009)

the brand domino makes organic sugar, which has a tint and mild tast of molasses. i havent used legit molasses, but it seems to do the trick


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 3, 2009)

if liquid karma is a carbohydrate based product its probably doing the same thing i have not used that product so i cant say for sure. i have used mollases sweet by botanicare and carboload and sweet leaf by advanced nutrients. sweet and sweetleaf are flavor enhancers but do contain carbohydrates along with amino acids etc...


----------



## Calijuana (Apr 5, 2009)

Realclosetgreenz said:


> I cant give you my regimen. but it works great!--



Dick move. You should learn to share.


----------



## SCORPIO13 (Apr 6, 2009)

I am using organic sucanat. You can get it from most health food stores for 8-9 dollars a bag. I use 1 TSP per gallon of water, every other watering. Since I have started using it I have seen alot more resi production.


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 6, 2009)

a good carb source will increase harvest weight also.


----------



## communistcannabis (Apr 6, 2009)

good question, great answers


----------



## beginningbotanist420 (Apr 6, 2009)

Soda does have a good bit of phosphoric acid though, which should give some P value. 

I like to use 100% naturally sweetened apple juice in my water. Start at about 1/4c per gallon in the first two weeks, gradually increasing to 1c per gallon for week 7-8. You can even use it in the flush period. And always use molasses!


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 6, 2009)

i would stick with only natural carb sources personally.


----------



## smellzlikeskunkyum (Apr 17, 2009)

gosh thank you, i get so much misleading info +rep to all that helped


----------



## smellzlikeskunkyum (Apr 17, 2009)

do you guys have a preference in molasses? im gonna go buy it today prolly. im growin "grapefruit x willie nelson", "afghan", and "excellent random bagseed" ill try to get a grow journy goin and ill put a link up for it, they are just lil things right now. you guys are a great help i hit some skunk outta my volcano in your honor!!


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 17, 2009)

just make sure that any mollases you purchase is un-sulfured i use grandmas brand available at most grocery stores.


----------



## smellzlikeskunkyum (Apr 20, 2009)

robust or not?


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 20, 2009)

smellzlikeskunkyum said:


> robust or not?


what do you mean i dont understand?


----------



## smellzlikeskunkyum (Apr 21, 2009)

theres a "robust" or original in gramas brand

, also i have an unopened jar of gramas molasses , but it says "best by : feb 2009" its prolly still good aint it? just wouldnt taste quite as fresh maybe?


----------



## smellzlikeskunkyum (Apr 21, 2009)

by the way i have a grow journy up and dont know how to link it, but ill be using molasses on this grow so check it out


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 21, 2009)

let your nose be your guide if its spoiled or contaminated with bacteria your nose will tell you. most expiration dates are precautionary and do not mean the product is always spoiled.


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 21, 2009)

i have always used the standard grandmas molasses as i have never seen any others. im sure the robust is fine as long as it is un-sulphered.


----------



## Pete Moss (Apr 21, 2009)

Hydro Organics High Brix Mollasses is the chit--1tbs per gallon every other watering through flowering, even flush with it still in there at the end...feeds the microbes in the soil, makes 'em bery bery dense 'n heavy...oh, and sweeeeet!!


----------



## Uncle Ben (Apr 21, 2009)

I hop 3 times on my left foot, toss a tad of sugar over my right shoulder while singing Hendrix' Foxy Lady and man you should see my buds. They laugh their ass off.

UB


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 21, 2009)

huh? but seriously a good carbohydrate source is beneficial particularly in soil grows.


----------



## xxacehighxx (Apr 21, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> I hop 3 times on my left foot, toss a tad of sugar over my right shoulder while singing Hendrix' Foxy Lady and man you should see my buds. They laugh their ass off.
> 
> UB


haha nice. i do the same thing but to boston's "more than feeling".


----------



## Hydrotech364 (Apr 21, 2009)

I heard that you should not use molasses with mix/soil.I use Hornby's Big Bud,my flowering nutes and cane sugar.I wear a bra on my head and sing Ganja Farmer by Marlon Asha while doing a seizure dance!


----------



## phreakygoat (Apr 21, 2009)

I can see that some people drank the sugar instead of feeding the plants, lol. Uncle Ben, you funny...


----------



## Uncle Ben (Apr 22, 2009)

phreakygoat said:


> I can see that some people drank the sugar instead of feeding the plants, lol. Uncle Ben, you funny...


Fermented sugar water..... 

As an aside, it's my understanding that the sugar molecule, in any form (sucrose, fructose, lactose, etc.) is too large to move across the root's epidermal gradient into the plant, unlike salts such as potassium chloride. Some folks say molasses feeds the soil's microbes. I've done experiments with molasses and found it much better suited for flapjacks.


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 22, 2009)

it will significantly increase finish weight of buds and raise resin content particularly in soil. i have grown the same clone with and without a carb source bud size and weight were better with the carb supplemented grow. healthy roots=healthy plant=good harvest weight. and as far as plants being able or unable to directly absorb sugars there is some debate depending who you ask or what you read. i see no reason why carb sources like deoxy ribose could not be directly used by the plant. in my grows carb sources seem are helpful overall and are cheap anyways.


----------



## Bud Frosty (Apr 22, 2009)

*I'm planning on trying maple sap tapped straight out of the tree (already processed by the tree to sustain itself) on one plant 4 wks into flowering. Any thoughts?*


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 22, 2009)

never tried that it should be ok might have some unknown effect from ambient plant hormones in the maple sap but again i have never used that method.


----------



## growdr0 (Apr 22, 2009)

I was at my local dro expo and i remember this thread, so i went ahead and purchased Sugar Daddy, pretty much just molasses and cane premixed i applied April 21st so in a week or so i'll let yall know something.


----------



## Bud Frosty (Apr 22, 2009)

bicycle racer said:


> never tried that it should be ok might have some unknown effect from ambient plant hormones in the maple sap but again i have never used that method.


*I figured it would be worth experimenting on one plant anyway.*


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 22, 2009)

yeah why not maybe you will get some interesting results who knows.


----------



## smellzlikeskunkyum (Apr 22, 2009)

well the molasses was good, it was sealed anyhow... i used aprox 1 tbs for a gal of natural spring water, i only watered a few of them... overnight i can see that the afghan i used it on looks healthy and vigorus as well as the others, but it seems the afghans are gonna enjoy the molasses the most. ill try to update my journal for those interested


----------



## smellzlikeskunkyum (Apr 22, 2009)

Bud Frosty said:


> *I figured it would be worth experimenting on one plant anyway.*


yeah im tempted to try using honey on one of my plants, seems like it would be valuable somehow to the plant if it uses sugars

maple syrup is a good experiment too!

i wondered if juice made from crushed organic berries would be suitable, maybe too much sodium??


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 22, 2009)

honey wont hurt it has various b vitamins and trace elements. also plants use some b vits especially b-1 it helps with stress or trauma. b-1 is one of the ingredients in superthrive which most people love.


----------



## AdReNaLiNeRuSh (Apr 22, 2009)

Do you guys think that using a carb based additive would compensate for me pruning some larger fan leaves off my plant? I really want to prune it up so the light may better penetrate the canopy, however, I do not want to loose out on those sugar factories... 


-AR


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 22, 2009)

dont remove fan leaves unless there mostly yellow and used up or your very close to harvest there important to plant growth and yield.


----------



## Bud Frosty (Apr 22, 2009)

AdReNaLiNeRuSh said:


> Do you guys think that using a carb based additive would compensate for me pruning some larger fan leaves off my plant? I really want to prune it up so the light may better penetrate the canopy, however, I do not want to loose out on those sugar factories...
> 
> 
> -AR


*Are you in flower yet or still vegging? In veg you can prune because you'll be able to grow new ones but, if flowering leave all of em. The sugar won't compensate*


----------



## born2killspam (Apr 22, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Fermented sugar water.....
> 
> As an aside, it's my understanding that the sugar molecule, in any form (sucrose, fructose, lactose, etc.) is too large to move across the root's epidermal gradient into the plant, unlike salts such as potassium chloride. Some folks say molasses feeds the soil's microbes. I've done experiments with molasses and found it much better suited for flapjacks.


They don't uptake much for carbohydrates, but they do secrete them.. Plants can dump up to 25% of the carbs they produce via photosynthesis to microbes..
Roots need carbs in the roots to process nitrogen into amino acids etc etc.. Basically all organic compounds are going to be built from CO2 through to simple carb to complex organic.. The more carbs to receive building blocks the better.. But they need to share those carbs too since the microbes produce their active nutrients.. The more carbs there are available in the soil, the less demand will be put on the roots as a carbohydrate source and the more it gets to keep for processing already available nutes.. If your soil is carb sufficient then carb loading won't help, but it won't hurt either..


> honey wont hurt it has various b vitamins and trace elements. also plants use some b vits especially b-1 it helps with stress or trauma. b-1 is one of the ingredients in superthrive which most people love.





> Bees collect nectar, which is mainly sucrose and 40-80% water. They process this using the enzyme invertase, and by evaporation into a product containing 18-20% water we know as honey:
> Water 18%
> Fructose 38%
> Glucose 33%
> ...


Here's a little bit on honey from homedistiller.org.. One advantage of molasses is the fact that it doesn't attract as much for bugs, and actually repells some.. Honey/Vinegar on the otherhand carry an adage..
Regarding the molasses, I'm thinking the robust format is blackstrap (probably 55-60% simple sugars), and the other is fancy (more simple sugars).. Blackstrap will carry more complex stuff, its the health nut type..
A great source for more complex stuff ontop of simple carbs is boiled yeast.. Or don't boil it, it won't hurt anything, boiling just busts them all open for instant availability to anything in the soil..


----------



## Uncle Ben (Apr 22, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> They don't uptake much for carbohydrates, but they do secrete them.. .


Are we into some anal excretion drill? 

I wanna know what my kids are drinking and how it affects their health.


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 22, 2009)

as always im at a loss thats the internet. im gonna go on the political threads that will make me feel better.


----------



## smellzlikeskunkyum (Apr 29, 2009)

born2killspam thx for the extended info! (+rep), at the local market they have: blackstrap molasses, grama's original, grama's robust... at the moment im using the original. ive began using molasses in my water about 1tbs per gallon ive only done it twice and i notice a difference in how much the plant grows during the dark period. that must mean that the roots are benefiting from the molasses. ill be updating my grow journy soon(only using flouro tubes!)... the afghans seem to like the molasses the best. i may try honey one or two times also, ill let u know how it goes... any special kind needed?.. and ohh... does the small amount of sodium in the molasses have undesired effects?


----------



## cleangro (Apr 29, 2009)

lampshade said:


> One more tiny thing, also every now and again dont use sugar, to get some of the stickiness out of the soil. I just use molasses with every other watering. Lamp


Hey how much unrefined cane sugar or molasses do you use per gallon? I am just now going to start using sugar instead of an expensive additive called "sweet"


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 29, 2009)

too much sodium has a negative effect in many ways. personally i like products like sweet and carboload etc... as they have amino acids vits minerals etc.. besides just sugar. im on a budget myself so i use mollases or other carb sources currently.


----------



## born2killspam (Apr 29, 2009)

Ya know what never gets mentioned as a mega carb source.. Good ol' compost..


----------



## somebody041 (Apr 30, 2009)

inval said:


> I use Advance Nutrients Carbo Load and have had great results. I use it in my res but I also spray it directly on the buds with my fert right on through late stage flowering. I've heard that to really take advantage of carbo loading you should actually use it as a foliar mix. I got incredible results last time. It brought out all these delightful fruit flavors and allowed the plants to develop an outstanding lime/citrus flavor and aroma. I'm growing a Maui/Chem Dog cross: Maui Super Dog and Mango Haze.


You sprayed your buds mid to late flowering? I am very interested... can you elaborate? How did you combat mold?


----------



## born2killspam (Apr 30, 2009)

Spraying carb products on bud/leaf is as wasteful as spraying it on your dog and hoping it improves your plant yields.. Any effect you see besides scorching is definately psychosomatic..
On the Advance stuff, I'm with UB.. Until they provide some real info about what they're selling, I'm going to assume its snake oil..
Has anybody done any patent searches on the company??


----------



## bicycle racer (Apr 30, 2009)

i like carboload the main ingredient is deoxy ribose a simple sugar found in most living cells it is more easily absorbed and used than any other carb source. unfortunately it is expensive. it is sold in health stores for people also i use it myself for extra energy in races it is good for the heart.


----------



## caliearl6060 (Apr 30, 2009)

I just bought some stuff called Sweet by Botanicare products. Its made with cane sugar, Todays my first day using it, I'll give it a week or 2 to see what happens. Ive heard only good things about the sugars.


----------



## born2killspam (Apr 30, 2009)

Another thing made from cane sugar is sugar..


----------



## lampshade (Apr 30, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Spraying carb products on bud/leaf is as wasteful as spraying it on your dog and hoping it improves your plant yields.. Any effect you see besides scorching is definately psychosomatic..
> On the Advance stuff, I'm with UB.. Until they provide some real info about what they're selling, I'm going to assume its snake oil..
> Has anybody done any patent searches on the company??


Hey its been a while since ive posted. Going through a move right now. But i know for sure that plants are more efficient at absorbing sugars through the stomatas on the leaf than they are at absorbing sugars with there roots. Of course afterwards you would want to mist with pure water to get off the sticky sheem left behind. Lamp


----------



## born2killspam (Apr 30, 2009)

Plants make their sugars.. Carb-loading is for the soil ecosystem..


----------



## lampshade (Apr 30, 2009)

I dont wanna argue but yes microrganisms in the soil eat carbs and sugars. But plants will and do absorb sugar both through there roots and through there leaves. Having too much sugar in a plant is even pssible. The effects of an overload of sugar is that the plant will stop growing leaves and stems and will send all the sugar t the fruits/flowers in order to use it up.


----------



## born2killspam (Apr 30, 2009)

Got any references on the excess phenomenon?? I know sucrose produced within the leaves forms larger compounds that can't travel in the opposite direction as they reach the phloem, but that production and transport is facilitated by the proton gradient formed by light energy.. If there is sufficient CO2 there will be the perfect amount of sucrose..
I read of an experiment that manipulated a few genes in some fig relative IIRC, that prevented the sucrose combination resulting in excess sucrose in the leaves since sucrose was able to travel back into them, and they observed reduced photosynthetic capacity..


----------



## lampshade (May 1, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Got any references on the excess phenomenon?? I know sucrose produced within the leaves forms larger compounds that can't travel in the opposite direction as they reach the phloem, but that production and transport is facilitated by the proton gradient formed by light energy.. If there is sufficient CO2 there will be the perfect amount of sucrose..
> I read of an experiment that manipulated a few genes in some fig relative IIRC, that prevented the sucrose combination resulting in excess sucrose in the leaves since sucrose was able to travel back into them, and they observed reduced photosynthetic capacity..


 Why are we talking about the Electron Trainsprot Chain. Yes active transport can move sugars against their will. Mostly by the use of a proton pump. I though we were talking about plants absorbing sugars through there stomata's. Which they can do. I will find a reference for you on how if flowers/fruits are avaliable plants stop growing vegetativly and send all the sugars to the fruit untill levels are normal. Also the sugars we give plants are NEVER the type they need. We feed them more complex sugars and the plant is forced to reduce the sugar into a simpler state. Such as deoxyribulose the starter sugar in the calvin cycle, and G3P or Guanine triphosphate, which is the final product. Again ill find a reference on the stunting, remember almost nothing is plant science is a fact most of it is theories and backed by anecdotal evidence. Sorry it took me so long to respond, im in the middle of a move and its hard to get online. Lamp


----------



## smellzlikeskunkyum (May 5, 2009)

i dont have any hard evidence, but ive heard over and over recently that a plant will absorb some of the sugar in one way or another. while that may be true, i think a major purpose in using sugar is for the roots. the original article i was going off of was an issue of high times, and it was in the ask jorge cervantes section, does anyone have his dvd's or books? perhaps he would explain himself in more detail, his said... if done properly the plant could produce up to 20% larger buds, which of course means in perfect conditions as well. all i can say is that ive got healthier plants this time than ever before, wiether its from the molasses or not i couldnt tell you because i didnt keep a plant as a control, and im not using clones i dunno, but i got a journal link in my sig w/new pics today! (finally)


----------



## lampshade (May 5, 2009)

smellzlikeskunkyum said:


> i dont have any hard evidence, but ive heard over and over recently that a plant will absorb some of the sugar in one way or another. while that may be true, i think a major purpose in using sugar is for the roots. the original article i was going off of was an issue of high times, and it was in the ask jorge cervantes section, does anyone have his dvd's or books? perhaps he would explain himself in more detail, his said... if done properly the plant could produce up to 20% larger buds, which of course means in perfect conditions as well. all i can say is that ive got healthier plants this time than ever before, wiether its from the molasses or not i couldnt tell you because i didnt keep a plant as a control, and im not using clones i dunno, but i got a journal link in my sig w/new pics today! (finally)


At night the plant sends sugars to the roots and some goes to the buds. The molasess probably helped you out by feeding the plant with excess sugar as well as feeding the plant sugar. I have Jorge Cervantes's book its at my old apartment ill get it soon enough. But i do know that Ed Rosenthill claims that you can actually run a needle and thread through the stalk of a plant and then let the thread sit in sugar water. Since water has capillary action, it will pull itself up the string like a wick and the plant is 'supposed' to benefit greatly from this. I would imagine however that you would be better off injecting it than running a needle through the stalk, but hey i got friend that snap there plants over when they get too tall and they seem just dandy, they just grow sideways for awhile. Lamp.


----------



## Whatever1987 (May 5, 2009)

Are grape molasses as good as sugar cane molasses? And is there anything to keep in mind when using this stuff? I would imagine that sugar could cause fungi infection or something like that.


----------



## smellzlikeskunkyum (May 5, 2009)

lampshade said:


> At night the plant sends sugars to the roots and some goes to the buds. The molasess probably helped you out by feeding the plant with excess sugar as well as feeding the plant sugar. I have Jorge Cervantes's book its at my old apartment ill get it soon enough. But i do know that Ed Rosenthill claims that you can actually run a needle and thread through the stalk of a plant and then let the thread sit in sugar water. Since water has capillary action, it will pull itself up the string like a wick and the plant is 'supposed' to benefit greatly from this. I would imagine however that you would be better off injecting it than running a needle through the stalk, but hey i got friend that snap there plants over when they get too tall and they seem just dandy, they just grow sideways for awhile. Lamp.


 
yeah i always try to force my plants to grow to even heights, i always top or FIM, and then bend and tie if i have to...

i do have the string and needles to do that, however im kinda afraid to try it.

I wonder why we dont hear more about carb loading. this place is basically the only place ive heard of it besides that specific high times article

would it be worth the trouble to try to use molasses on outdoor pants that are planted directly into the ground?


----------



## smellzlikeskunkyum (May 5, 2009)

Whatever1987 said:


> Are grape molasses as good as sugar cane molasses? And is there anything to keep in mind when using this stuff? I would imagine that sugar could cause fungi infection or something like that.


i would read the label closely... too much sodium would be deadly, and you certainly want unsulphured molasses. i use plain ol original grandma's molasses. it sells for around $3 a jar

ive never heard of grape molasses tho, is it homemade?


----------



## cbgreen (May 5, 2009)

bicycle racer said:


> it will significantly increase finish weight of buds and raise resin content particularly in soil. i have grown the same clone with and without a carb source bud size and weight were better with the carb supplemented grow. healthy roots=healthy plant=good harvest weight. and as far as plants being able or unable to directly absorb sugars there is some debate depending who you ask or what you read. i see no reason why carb sources like deoxy ribose could not be directly used by the plant. in my grows carb sources seem are helpful overall and are cheap anyways.


you have any pictures of that? i haven't done any research myself, but i'm just about to, i saw you keep saying something about this non-complex sugar ribulose, is where i will start my search, i'll get back on that.


----------



## cbgreen (May 5, 2009)

it's a nice experiment, i'll give you that, but i don't think it's applicable to growing pot, unless u wanna combine the plant feeding through its roots with cutting every leaf tip and dipping it into a sugar solution. Feeding the solution through the stem wouldn't suffise and would most probably just dry the plant out. (my opinion from a quick spin in my head  )


----------



## cbgreen (May 5, 2009)

damn, how do you find that stuff! Again, very educative lecture, but i'm not sure if i wanna try that.

http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/53/376/1929.pdf

Page 2-3 elaborates on the stem injection method, which seems quite easy to perform...anybody wanna give it a try?...please DO post your results if you do 

So, to summarise, it's not at all improving the tomatoe plants when feeding them sugar through their leaves, unless they came from a dark environment which would have held them back. But no overall improvement when growing conditions are optimal anyway.

It does tell us sugar is greatly absorbed through the leaves. Cannabis isn't a tomatoe! So if anyone has any pictures of identical clones being fed normally, and being fed sugar -either through foliar feeding or by being added with a nute solution fed to the roots, or both- , please do post them, it will be greatly appreciated, and it will clear confusion because many people make many statements, i would just like to see someone backup their statement.

You can always try to put a cannabis seed and a melon seed together and spray it with some plutonium to get those melon sized buds, it worked for homer simpson.

peace out


----------



## plantman969 (May 6, 2009)

cbgreen said:


> damn, how do you find that stuff! Again, very educative lecture, but i'm not sure if i wanna try that.
> 
> http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/53/376/1929.pdf
> 
> ...


I continue to use Botanicare Sweet and Roots Organic Trinity (molassis) as my foilar spray with a touch of Prozyme. Spraing the sugars directly on the tops and bottoms of the leafs. Seems to be doing good


----------



## Whatever1987 (May 6, 2009)

smellzlikeskunkyum said:


> i would read the label closely... too much sodium would be deadly, and you certainly want unsulphured molasses. i use plain ol original grandma's molasses. it sells for around $3 a jar
> 
> ive never heard of grape molasses tho, is it homemade?



Store bought, the reason I ask is because I live in Norway and can't find regular molasses anywhere here, i found them on the web for like 4-5usd but shipping is 40-50usd  so i figured it's not worth it.

Another alternative for me is maple syrup which i have read that some people use.


----------



## cbgreen (May 7, 2009)

so everyone is all going on about how sugar feeding is so incredible and helps a lot, but NO ONE has any pictures, how's that for credibility!


----------



## Uncle Ben (May 7, 2009)

cbgreen said:


> so everyone is all going on about how sugar feeding is so incredible and helps a lot, but NO ONE has any pictures, how's that for credibility!


The only true "gimmick" that is failproof is a robust root system and a massive amount of healthy green foliage up to harvest. 

UB


----------



## cbgreen (May 7, 2009)

> The only true "gimmick" that is failproof is a robust root system and a massive amount of healthy green foliage up to harvest.
> 
> UB


I'll smoke to that!


----------



## AdReNaLiNeRuSh (May 7, 2009)

cbgreen said:


> so everyone is all going on about how sugar feeding is so incredible and helps a lot, but NO ONE has any pictures, how's that for credibility!


Lol...


-AR


----------



## bushmang (May 7, 2009)

Technaflora _Sugar Daddy is this the same thing as sugar and molasses?_ doese this product work for hydro nft systems?

thanks


----------



## smellzlikeskunkyum (May 12, 2009)

Whatever1987 said:


> Store bought, the reason I ask is because I live in Norway and can't find regular molasses anywhere here, i found them on the web for like 4-5usd but shipping is 40-50usd  so i figured it's not worth it.
> 
> Another alternative for me is maple syrup which i have read that some people use.


 can you get honey easily? it may be cheaper than maple syrup


----------



## born2killspam (May 12, 2009)

You can get molasses for less than $1/lb at most bulkfood stores..


----------



## cbgreen (May 15, 2009)

molasses contain over 40% sucrose (big molecules) and honey contains 1-2% sucrose and about 98-99% glucose, fructose and maltose (small molecules), now i found that the leaves' stomata rather go for the small molecules, besides that honey contains part of the necessary trace elements found in fertilizers.


----------



## slipperyP (May 15, 2009)

cbgreen said:


> molasses contain over 40% sucrose (big molecules) and honey contains 1-2% sucrose and about 98-99% glucose, fructose and maltose (small molecules), now i found that the leaves' stomata rather go for the small molecules, besides that honey contains part of the necessary trace elements found in fertilizers.


What do you think a good recipe would be? Do you water it in to your plants? Day 30 to 45 of flower is what i understand the window to use sugar?


----------



## bicycle racer (May 15, 2009)

you can use a carbohydrate source any time but throughout flower is best to increase taste and yield.


----------



## slipperyP (May 15, 2009)

bicycle racer said:


> you can use a carbohydrate source any time but throughout flower is best to increase taste and yield.


What do you use, when?


----------



## bicycle racer (May 15, 2009)

me personally i use mollases 1 tablespoon a gal or carboload(advanced nutrients) or sweet(botanicare) as per directions on bottle. i use 1 or more of these products from 2 weeks from seed to 1 week from harvest. its not like ferts you can play around with when you use and dosage as its hard to hurt your plants this way. i have not used in any true hydroponic applications but i do use in coco or hempy applications without issue.


----------



## lolapug2175 (May 16, 2009)

It's amazing how misinformed people are regarding the introduction of carbohydrates in horticulture! With all the legitimate information available on the internet people still retain the information put-forth by the misinformed. 

1.) Plants cannot 'Directly' uptake carbohydrate molecules through their roots or from the stoma via topical foiler application. **It's not just that the carbohydrate molecules are to large/complex. plants do not possess a digestive system like ours to process the carbohydrates. It takes a tremendous amount of energy to break down carbohydrates. Without delving into the complexities of ATP plants product their own glucose during calvin cycle. 
2.) Sugar, Molasses (Beet/Cane), Pepsi, Honey Pixistix, Smarties and whatever else the kids are doing these days does not directly make a plants flowers sweeter or bigger! 
3.) Carbohydrates are not steroids for your plants! Introducing carbohydrates provide food for the living organism that help assimilate nutrients for the plant.

Put simply, the benefit of carbo-loading is to provide food for the Micro/Macro biological agents that exist next to the rhizome layer adjacent to the root of the plant or cultures existing on the surface of the leaf. 

So... before you start packing Bubblicious in your soil or Skittles in your rez it should be considered that carbohydrates (CH20) are a broad group of chemical structures. Monosaccharides, Disaccharides, Polysaccharides. fructose, galactose sucrose, maltose.......amylose...... etc...etc. There are reasons for using cane and beet molasses above straight C&H processed sugar.. or better yet Dr. Pepper? Carbohydrates should be administered with added biological inoculates or in mediums that support this i.e. foxfarm Happyfrog, Roots organic soil etc. Inert fiber-less mediums/methods such as Hydroton, Perlite Aeroponics and NFT benefit very little from carbo-loading due to the organisms having little/nothing to hold on to. (adding coco-mat or rockwool to a rez is not a sufficient support infrastructure/habitat for the microbes) Foiler feeding carbohydrates is a useless endeavor unless you are administering biologicals simultaneously i.e. a product as in House&Garden's Magicgreen. It is also a good practice to promote beneficials by introducing inoculates that will assist to control the potential anaerobic biologicals that can develop when an abundance of food is present. It is ridiculous practice to Carb-feed more than once a week unless you want to make alcohol in your soil. Cycling the biologicals by loading every other week will provide very adequate results. 
If you're interested in experimenting with carb-loading I suggest making a small investment with a product designed specifically for horticulture. Some of the products available from Humboldt Nutrients are a good place to start for both the biological base and the supporting regiment of carbohydrate food. $60 will take you through a decent sized cycle (8wk 10kw+) with out the risk of pouring gas on the fire that is Pythium, Rhizoctonia and Phytophthora... you know... the bad guys that share space with beneficials that feed from carbohydrates as well. 

Dr. Pepper.....pfft! That's just Dumb!


----------



## bicycle racer (May 16, 2009)

whatever we know all this already its on many threads. i understand microbiology pretty well myself in soil at temps above 70 that small amount of sugar is processed very quickly soil has a massive surface area with a huge population of carbohydrate processing microbes. so whether you choose to use weekly or twice monthly its fine. bigger healthier root system bigger more fragrant buds put simply happy root system happy plants.


----------



## lolapug2175 (May 16, 2009)

It's amazing how misinformed people are regarding the introduction of carbohydrates in horticulture! With all the legitimate information available on the internet people still retain the information put-forth by the misinformed. 

1.) Plants cannot 'Directly' uptake carbohydrate molecules through their roots or from the stoma via topical foiler application. **It's not just that the carbohydrate molecules are to large/complex. plants do not possess a digestive system like ours to process the carbohydrates. It takes a tremendous amount of energy to break down carbohydrates. Without delving into the complexities of ATP plants product their own glucose during calvin cycle. 
2.) Sugar, Molasses (Beet/Cane), Pepsi, Honey Pixistix, Smarties and whatever else the kids are doing these days does not directly make a plants flowers sweeter or bigger! 
3.) Carbohydrates are not steroids for your plants! Introducing carbohydrates provide food for the living organism that help assimilate nutrients for the plant.

Put simply, the benefit of carbo-loading is to provide food for the Micro/Macro biological agents that exist next to the rhizome layer adjacent to the root of the plant or cultures existing on the surface of the leaf. 

So... before you start packing Bubblicious in your soil or Skittles in your rez it should be considered that carbohydrates (CH20) are a broad group of chemical structures. Monosaccharides, Disaccharides, Polysaccharides. fructose, galactose sucrose, maltose.......amylose...... etc...etc. There are reasons for using cane and beet molasses above straight C&H processed sugar.. or better yet Dr. Pepper? Carbohydrates should be administered with added biological inoculates or in mediums that support this i.e. foxfarm Happyfrog, Roots organic soil etc. Inert fiber-less mediums/methods such as Hydroton, Perlite Aeroponics and NFT benefit very little from carbo-loading due to the organisms having little/nothing to hold on to. (adding coco-mat or rockwool to a rez is not a sufficient support infrastructure/habitat for the microbes) Foiler feeding carbohydrates is a useless endeavor unless you are administering biologicals simultaneously i.e. a product as in House&Garden's Magicgreen. It is also a good practice to promote beneficials by introducing inoculates that will assist to control the potential anaerobic biologicals that can develop when an abundance of food is present. It is ridiculous practice to Carb-feed more than once a week unless you want to make alcohol in your soil. Cycling the biologicals by loading every other week will provide very adequate results. 
If you're interested in experimenting with carb-loading I suggest making a small investment with a product designed specifically for horticulture. Some of the products available from Humboldt Nutrients are a good place to start for both the biological base and the supporting regiment of carbohydrate food. $60 will take you through a decent sized cycle (8wk 10kw+) with out the risk of pouring gas on the fire that is Pythium, Rhizoctonia and Phytophthora... you know... the bad guys that share space with beneficials that feed from carbohydrates as well. 

Dr. Pepper.....pfft! That's just Dumb!


----------



## born2killspam (May 16, 2009)

> It is ridiculous practice to Carb-feed more than once a week unless you want to make alcohol in your soil. Cycling the biologicals by loading every other week will provide very adequate results.


Hey, thats not a bad idea.. The plants would suck the ethanol into the buds, and then you'd get both stoned and drunk when you smoked them right??
(Sorry, too tempting.. The way you describe it is the way I understand it..)


----------



## lolapug2175 (May 20, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Hey, thats not a bad idea.. The plants would suck the ethanol into the buds, and then you'd get both stoned and drunk when you smoked them right??
> (Sorry, too tempting.. The way you describe it is the way I understand it..)


Yeah.... pretty sure that the ethanol would evaporate prior to combustion..If not a good pop due to combustion....


----------



## lolapug2175 (May 20, 2009)

While we're on the topic Born2KillSpam, I was curious to get your thoughts on the difference of carbohydrate sources. Refined sugar water V.S cruder forms of Carbs. Does it make any difference? My logic tells me otherwise however, I would like to here your input on the topic.
-Best


----------



## lolapug2175 (May 20, 2009)

While we're on the topic Born2KillSpam, I was curious to get your thoughts on the difference of carbohydrate sources. Refined sugar water V.S cruder forms of Carbs. Does it make any difference? My logic tells me otherwise however, I would like to here your input on the topic.
-Best


----------



## born2killspam (May 20, 2009)

I dunno.. Until I see a nice experiment done by somebody I can trust to grow plants well, and uniformly that shows a real difference, I'd be saving my money.. Cruder carbs will contribute additional things that organisms need to thrive as they decompose.. I don't know what typical soil is lacking though if anything aside from the carbs needed to fuel those things.. I can only imagine soil itself, or compost takes care of everything else..
I do know that ordinary topsoil has enough nutrients in it to supply yeast with what they need to ferment a sugar wash to their limit fairly vigorously.. I did that a while back.. Made up two identical sugar washes, left one lacking all nutrient, and tossed a handful of soil in the other.. The clean one stalled at 9% abv after a week or so, and the one with the soil added stopped bubbling about 2 days earlier, fully fermented to 14%abv.. Granted yeast are protozoa, and we're more concerned with bacteria/fungi, but atleast its an anecdote..


----------



## NPK20 (May 27, 2009)

sweetness... i thought the sugar water feedings were myths ... never again


----------



## turtleblood (May 27, 2009)

ok either i'm higher than i thought or this thread is entirely indecisive. will someone please fill in my chart? please state which are based more on opinion or more on research, if possible please include some kind of reference to the research, also if it was in a scientific community or pot community.
..............................................good...............bad....
... sugar watering.....................[ ]................[ ]......
... sugar foliage spray...............[ ]................[ ].....
...simple carb watering..............[ ]................[ ].....
... complex carb watering..........[ ]................[ ].....
... simple carb foliage spray.......[ ]...............[ ]....
... complex carb foliage spray....[ ]................[ ]....
we can talk about combinations or each of these methods later. (i'm also a math geek. in case you are wondering, there would be a MINIMUM of 64 plants to have each plant having a unique feeding regiment. and then if you factor in the TIME that watering happens (sunrise, midday, sunset, midnight) you would get 512 plants bare minimum. this is a LOT of research! ideally you would set up at least 10 of each plant in order to obtain the most accurate average, which means 5,120 plants. and they would all have to be clones to start with, which means a pretty powerful clone farm, all origining back to a single mother. they should also be the same generation clone so you would have to grow the clones out linear-ly and keep them in the same conditions throughout. holly crap. i wish i could do this. i would so do this. i should take a horticulture class.
however, if there were enough knowledge divulged on the subject, you could just pick out a FEW of the 512 combinations based on personal bias or previous opinion pointing in that direction. do the opposites as well for a really good comparison (or a neutral) and that's probably around 200 plants, much more manageable for any grower comopared to 5,120 plants.)

and apparently tha was all an aside! hope you like my thoughts on the subject. anyway, can you guys fill in my chart?

i'm a very neat and organized seeker of information when i'm high. haha.


----------



## joshbigbuds (May 27, 2009)

you are over watering your plants


----------



## Uncle Ben (May 28, 2009)

turtleblood said:


> ok either i'm higher than i thought or this thread is entirely indecisive. will someone please fill in my chart? please state which are based more on opinion or more on research, if possible please include some kind of reference to the research, also if it was in a scientific community or pot community.


Here's some interesting links. Yes, most, if not all of folks' reports is based on opinion or anecdotal evidence which can not be verified. We all want to believe in some magic potion, but in the end, it's learning what makes a plant tick that counts. IOW, if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.

http://www.soils.wisc.edu/extension/hottopics/nonconventional.pdf

http://agguide.agronomy.psu.edu/cm/sec2/sec210.cfm

No matter what the crop or the additive used, this is what I keep hearing over and over again *-

"The results of this trial suggest that the use of the nonconventional additives tested in this trial, under standard commercial agricultural practices on the soils at the Malheur Experiment Station, did not result in any crop production benefit. The low amounts of plant nutrients and humic acid supplied by the products at the rates tested cast doubt as to their value in crop production. Conventional soil or foliar-applied fertilizers for plant nutrient supplementation, or manure and compost applications for enhancing soluble humic substances, should be considered as economical alternatives."

http://www.cropinfo.net/AnnualReports/2000/onihumic00.htm

*


----------



## ozman (May 31, 2009)

Ive been using gen hydros pineapple rush for 9 weeks now 2 teaspoons per gal.,in my e&f sys. using hydroton.I havent noticed any problems yet,my ph is pretty stable,the plants seem ok with it,I know the plants in the hydro have bigger calyxes,thicker leaves,and generally I think have more glands then the same plants grown in soil with out it .Im also using gh 3 part flora for nutes in both soil and hydro and approx. same ppms.
I havent had a sample yet still in flower. But sometimes I think I smell pineapple when I walk past the flower room.
I will probably continue using it,no harm no foul.......


----------



## bicycle racer (May 31, 2009)

i just harvested a hempy grow which i used sweet or another sugar source on throughout flowering. big yield good smell good trich count perfect plant no issues. i tore apart the root ball to inspect root health all bright white healthy roots the medium had a fresh soil like smell with no sings of fermentation or root rot of any kind and many many feeder roots. i will continue to use a carbohydrate source in soil or hempy style grows. i prefer anecdotal evidence to what a study says besides that some studies i have read contradict each other. in my experience indoor and out on various grows is that a carb source helps root growth and overall yield and thats all that matters to me


----------



## mdgcmd (Jun 1, 2009)

I skipped all the reading but I have a question.

I read on OG a few years ago that stated that the sugar (glucoase) molecule is to large to fit through the root lenticels. Again this is just what I read on OG so I am just asking. I also read that the way that nute manufacturers get around this is by chelating the sugars into smaller form of glucose. So providing that what I read is true how can adding sugar or molassis help the plant in any way?


----------



## born2killspam (Jun 1, 2009)

Have you read the thread?? The goal with sugars is to feed microorganisms that work for the plant so they can work harder/longer to make nice useful small/polar ions..


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jun 1, 2009)

mdgcmd said:


> I skipped all the reading but I have a question.
> 
> I read on OG a few years ago that stated that the sugar (glucoase) molecule is to large to fit through the root lenticels. Again this is just what I read on OG so I am just asking.


That was probably me. Yes, it is my understanding that the molecule is too large to pass thru the root's epidermal layer. If sucrose was a bonafide plant food they'd be selling it as fertilizer. I'm talking about the real world, not the world of cannabis forums where everyone is looking for a secret ingredient or gimmick. 

Regarding feeding soil microbes, even the organic hacks I know that sell molasses by the 50 gallon drum disagree on what form is "best". Some is complex, some is simple, whatever that means. I personally think it is all a bunch of hooey. Having said that, I am running an experiment on sweet corn, visual one at best with no control group. About 2 weeks ago I drenched my corn with some bitches brew - Medina soil activator, complex of mychorrihae fungi/bacteria, and molasses. Corn looks great but then again so does everything else thanks to the recent rains.

If you're an organic grower, the cheapest and probably the best application you can give your plants is recently collected rainwater - it's full of microbes and N, especially if dropped out of thunderstorms.

UB


----------



## bicycle racer (Jun 1, 2009)

why more n if dropped by a thunderstorm? is there a molecular change of some kind from lightning/high electricity? never heard of that just wondering.


----------



## born2killspam (Jun 1, 2009)

Regarding molasses, the simple stuff is likely fancy molasses, its higher in sucrose, and other fermentables at perhaps 65-85%.. The complex stuff would likely be blackstrap, which is perhaps 45-65% simple sugars..
Molasses is actually a waste product from sugar refining.. The fancier it is, the fewer stages it has gone through for sugar extraction, and the purer it will be.. The more blackstrap it is, the more complex stuff will be in there from complex molecules, burst open yeasts etc..
On that note, one thing soil loves is boiled yeast.. Boiling yeast bursts the cells and releases a plethora of complex stuff essential for basic life.. I've noticed that a few of those super-gimmicks toss that into the pot with their seaweed, and eye of newt before they bottle it..


----------



## bicycle racer (Jun 1, 2009)

yeast is very nutritious and is very high in various b vitamins which plants do use particularly when stressed think (superthrive) mostly b-1.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jun 1, 2009)

bicycle racer said:


> why more n if dropped by a thunderstorm? is there a molecular change of some kind from lightning/high electricity? never heard of that just wondering.


More nitrates and nitrogen oxides which are fixed free nitrogen by lightning. Now you know why your lawn looks so much greener after a good thunderstorm. 

http://books.google.com/books?id=pLwFN1d59VsC&pg=PA266&lpg=PA266&dq=thunderstorm+rainfall+nitrates&source=bl&ots=z97vMxYuWQ&sig=uYyC0pPemmX16n4bVFUqk9xrCTo&hl=en&ei=zRkkSuP3F5HDtwe_zPzKBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7


----------



## bicycle racer (Jun 1, 2009)

good to know.


----------



## bicycle racer (Jun 1, 2009)

then again we dont have thunderstorms in socal at least there very unusual.


----------



## Cap K (Jun 1, 2009)

Wow! Learn something new every day. I think I'll try molasses.


----------



## born2killspam (Jun 1, 2009)

My rainwater registers in at pH 5.7 and only 15ppm consistently..


----------



## bicycle racer (Jun 1, 2009)

its like ro or distilled more or less nice. in my area there is little to no rain so not a viable option for me too bad.


----------



## Hemlock (Nov 24, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> The only true "gimmick" that is failproof is a robust root system and a massive amount of healthy green foliage up to harvest.
> 
> UB


So UB you don't think molasses is worth feeding the soil and provide plant with sugar. Not that smart need it in laymans terms.'
Thanks
H


----------



## Hemlock (Nov 24, 2009)

Hemlock said:


> So UB you don't think molasses is worth feeding the soil and provide plant with sugar. Not that smart need it in laymans terms.'
> Thanks
> H


Also what is your opinion on using store bought Organic sugar and adding to the res at a rate if 1/10 a ml per gallon. No preheat.?


----------

