# White Dwarf autoflower Picture journal



## growthspurt (Apr 6, 2009)

Hello all and welcome to my Picture grow journal, I will be updating this with pictures and status updates of my grow.

I decided to start doing this about 8 days in so I will just post one long update... then post new ones as often as I can. I'm really enjoying this so Ill prolly post a lot.

I'm using the Stealth Bubbleponics kit from http://www.stealthhydroponics.com 








Here is a link to the kit I am using
http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/product.php?xProd=2&xSec=2

I choose the Dual Spectrum II since I have been following recommendations from ROSEMAN who has successfully grown a few crops already with this system.


 *START DATE MARCH 30th 2009*

(The early days pictures are still on my phone, will update some notes and pictures tomorrow)

*APRIL 4th 2009 (6 Days old)

As you can see in the pictures I first decided to go with the cardboard cutout but thought that a cd would be a better idea since it cant get wet and poses a better chance to not get warped and change shape) Later it was brought to my attention by roseman that once the plant gets bigger it will be more complicated to remove a cd instead of something cardboard or paper. So I plan to go out and get some paper plates but in the mean time have been using the cardboard cutout.

I placed in six seeds and only four sprouted so here they are at this point. 


**




**






CLOSEUPS





* *




*
* 
*
* 
**




**




*
* 


This one is a little yellow and it was concerning me, I thought that it could possibly have been the difference between the vegetative bulb and the flowering one so I have decided weekly to switch the position so it spread equally. I figured this wouldn't do any harm either or and could only benefit.








APRIL 5TH 2009 (7 days old) 

Today was a good day! I decided that since two of the six seeds didnt make it and it didnt look like anything was gonna happen anytime soon, I decided to remove the cups and shut the water off going to it. I took the one from the far right off and looked into rockwool and saw the seed with no sign of sprouting so I removed it and covered the hole with a circular cardboard cutout and black tape and then covered it with a thick threaded material to prevent light from getting in. I then did the same to the other one and low and behold I found a spoutling!!!!!! I gave it some assistance pointing up and within 6-8 hours it was allready showing a top as pictured below! Im so happy to have 5 of 6 now! GOOO Dr.Chronic seeds!!







The other babies are doing good too!



















So as you can see the yellow on would appear to have gotten worse... but what i sorta think happened is the green in the middle got darker.. so its amplifying the yellow. So im thinking this may be either cause of the lights being too close or maybe shes just hungry as ROSEMAN mentioned in another thread I posted in.










April 6th 2009 (8 days old)

So today after some questioning on the forums lol I decided to start them off with some nutes. (Just to add, all my roots are touching the water surprisingly Determia (the late sprouter) has a root in the water already. This was most likely because the seed was pushed way to far into the rock wool. The roots didn't have far to go down but the sprout needed my help to get up. I was recommended to start with 1/4 dosage. How I went about measuring this was to just pour the whole packet onto my scale, take that number divide it by 4. Then just use that much in grams. I did that for both Micro and Grow (these are the SH nutes that come with the combo kit) 
I went out to wally world today and picked up some extra tubing (just in case) and another 10 gallon bucket because I wanted to be able to mix all the nutrients first so that I can get it looking right and all the hard stuff out to prevent it from clogging the pump.

After draining the res and refilling with the 1/4 nute solution I was off to perform some errands and attend some appts. I left @ 12:30... when I returned @ around 3 or 4 pm I was very surprised with the change in the plants. Determia has went from a bent over position to pointing straight up and all the other plants have a darker color and seem a lot healthier. Have a look for yourself!!!!

Check out how it still looked around 12:30pm before I left and then around 3 or 4pm with 1/4 nutes all new water.

How it looked around 12pm (note this is a pic from day before but it looked the same) How it looked about 4 hours later after putting nutes. 
**




**






You can see the yellow one getting better already too!!











NOTE JOURNAL NOT COMPLETE YET, I WILL UPDATE THE FIRST SECTION TOMMORROW AND THEN UPDATE WITH TOMMORROWS INFO! 
 *


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 7, 2009)

Instead of having multiple threads on it, I have no issues if people want to post questions,comments and suggestions in this journal.


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 8, 2009)

*April 8th 2009 (10 days old)*
*
Ok so every night i need to close the closet because the light is so bright... well I decided to see what changes in the temp from leaving it open, and having it shut for about 8/9 hours. The below picture shows that the relative humidity goes from 40% to what appears to be 44% overnight. Not pictured but the temp range is always 78 - 80, nothing more nothing less.*










*There is a fan going at all times and when you walk in the closet it doesnt feel hot at all.

Anyways here is the 10th day update pics...let me know if anyone notices any issues with them. I stare at them longer and longer each day, i never knew id be so into this process!!*










*Aww and look at the once little later bloomer... now pretty much blended in!*















This gets more fun by the day!


----------



## yourlocal420 (Apr 9, 2009)

Subscribed! Looks like you are a week or so ahead. I just started soakin my seeds yesterday. Cant wait to have 2 side by side DWC grows. Cool man! Keep it rollin!


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 9, 2009)

*April 9th 2009 (11 days old)

After a suggestion from Roseman I decided to head out to my local home depot and pic up a 2700k Cfl for 14 bucks. I also got the stand/clamp/reflector package for another 10 bucks. So another flowering lamp for under 30 bucks SWEET!! 









You can see part of the reflector/clamp kit next to it.


After setting up the third light in a range of places, I finally decided on a good spot, you can see in the pics below how it looks. The only thing different is I folded the belt up so it wasnt sitting on the reflector like that.






Here is a shot from the left side, you can see the front of the new CFL, I figured if the light came from that side and I eventually get some Mylar on the back wall it will create this really nice light source all around the BB system.







This picture was taken around 2pm today, I will take another picure of all these plants to show you the comparason on how much they really do change from morning to night. I wonder how much it will change since Ive added that new light. 












This one i guess is getting a lot of water from the feeding tubes cause you can see it getting the paper plate a little wet. I don't think it is anything that should cause me any concern so ill ignore it.






PH NOTES: This is the first week on 1/4 nutes and seemed the nutes brought my water to a constant 6.5 ph. I put in enough PH down to bring it to 6ph and now its sitting about a very healthy looking ph (im using the strips so since the picture is a little weird ima say 5.98/6.0ph and I feel good)

Will update later tonight with new pictures if any changes occur.
(nothing really changed, see you tommorrow!)
*


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 10, 2009)

*April 9th 2009 (11 days old)

Woke up this morning and I guess because of the new light addition it was almost 90 degrees in that room. I quickly removed the cover from the closet and it went back down to 80 in about 20 minutes. I was worried that they would go into shock adding more time to the grow but since the fan was on them the whole time they stayed chill i believe. When i found them this morning I also immediately checked the water temp and it was still cool to the touch, so I think everything was ok. That temp is more of an ambience, not directly what the plants feel. I will get another one and monitor the sun bathing area for the plants. I want that auto ph meter that also does the temp of the.. ahh.. in time i suppose. Anyway here are my sexy babys now.. lol




















And some of the smaller ones..









Yes that one is the one that sprouted about 4 days late..lol


Here is my miscolored one, she feels unloved due to her obvious image issue.. but its ok.. she will be loved the same in the end...  







Well its day 11, and im sure some people are wondering how my roots are. Well here are the first released pics of my babys roots.... its like the first pics of brad and jonela's baby.. so rare.. and for you free.. live and uncut.














Looking good if you ask me!!! and current temps..







Hope you enjoyed todays update and installment of.. "The auto DWARF chronicles"

*


----------



## learningtogrow (Apr 10, 2009)

dude your set up is off the hook..... your using cereal boxes, cds and a belt to hang your lights from... mad props haha


cant go wrong with the flintstones


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 11, 2009)

*April 11th 2009 (13 days old)**
*
*Ill start this update with a picture of "America" she has grown so far to be my most prized female. * *











And after the biggest the smallest is "Determia" the little seedling that could! She has been moving along slowly but surely...










Look at the top of these.. its a pretty nice looking red shade. I love it...











I think im going to rename this one "party pooper" cause every girl looks good except this one.. I have high hopes for her but damn she need to start doing something. Im hoping that maybe she will snap out of it come later tonight/tommorrow morning when I drain and replace the tank with 1/2 nutes. I just did a week in 1/4 and I think they are ready to graduate. We will see how that goes I will def post pics after. Oh shit.. anyway i forgot I had to post the pic before I start rambling again..lol







Here is the not much talked about "eve", shes been growing and getting whatever I put around it wet... but she looks good.. growing seemingly at an average speed if you compare her with the rest.







Well what would an update be without a group picture... ok ladys.. get together... say buuudddsss!!!







Oh hold on we need to take another shot America wasnt paying attention and theres a damn light in the shot.. do over!!







Alright! sooo my sexy bitches still look good..... until my next update.. here are some random other pictures that I dont feel like commenting on... oh wait.. i kinda just did... hmmm












~Until NExt TIme!~ 

P.S ONce again I will say this at the end everytime, if you have a question/comment/ANYTHING please feel free to post it here. I want this to be as constructive to the cause as possible.. any my cause is supporting Stealth bubbleponics systems growing any AUTOFLOWER/FEMINISED. I do not care for or want to venture into any other as I believe autoflower is the future for indoor stealth growing. 




*


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 11, 2009)

*Ok so check this out, I was searching the internet using Google as my knowledge database and my own creative typing to search the interwebs. I used a combination of the words "auto flower feminized lighting schedule" and found a thread post that was an incredibly valuable piece of information on auto flower strains and how they should be fed, grown, cultivated. It makes references to a strain called low ryder and this is a smaller dwarf type plant and mixed it with another plant that has an auto flowering gene. Now by this time there are a lot more auto flowering strains but since the main similarity is the auto flowering this post seems to be a good reference for any knowledge you have already in your current grow setup. For example I choose to listen to roseman since he has used this system successfully to grow multiple crops... but where im different is auto flower seeds feminized. So I don't have to worry about alot of the things most have to .. but that means that it could be possible that the nutes needed at what times might be different since its all happening automatically. Well what im doing is utilizing everything Ive learned from roseman, and im using this post as a guideline for the more specific things I have to do with my auto flower strain.. I will keep you updated and if you choose auto flower def go with SH BB kit and use their nutes and understand and comprehend the below post... information is wonderful, applying it is amazing,...*

*Long read but VERY informational about AUTO FLOWER SEEDS.. MAY ANSWER MOST QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE ABOUT AUTO FLOWER SEEDS!!!!*

The original auto-flowering strain was created by The Joint Doctor and Highbred seeds.This is the revolutionary Lowryer.It was created by back breeding Northern Lights and William's Wonder with a Mexican Ruderalis.The amazing thing about this new strain was that the only Ruderalis trait left was the auto-flowering gene.This means that flowering is triggered by age rather then light/dark schedule.

The lifetime of the plants is short, lasting only 9 - 11 weeks.Within 2 weeks males will show themselves with the female showing around a week after that.From there the females go into a quick and violent flowering stage.They only reach an average highth of 12" with average harvests of 25 grams give or take depending on growing conditions.Giving it maximum stealth outside with up to three harvests a year.The size of the containers used will dramasticly effect size.Most growers use 1 - 2 gallon containers and can get well over an ounce out of each plant.

Due to the quick lifespan cloning becomes impracticable and is only grown from seeds.Since a separate light schedule isn't needed a grower can vegetate and flower in the same area.This creates new possibilities for small or macro operations.A small grow area can sustain a continuous S.O.G. giving a fresh harvest every few weeks.Most auto growers keep their lights at 18/6 or 20/4.A 12/12 schedule will dramatically hurt the final yield.

After the benefits of auto's was realized breeders began playing with them trying to make them bigger,stronger,and more potent.After Lowryder came Lowryder 2, also by the Joint doctor and using Santa Maria genetics.From these two strains a vast array of strains have been created in the last few years.With Low Life seeds, Mdanzig, and Dutchbreed joining to the new auto movement.Some of these new strains are said to have up to 23% Thc!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are some of the strains available on the market -

Joint Doctor Highbred seeds- Lowryder , Lowrider 2 , Dieselryder , Snowryder(?)

Low Life Seeds- Automatic AK-47 , Automatic Blueberry, Automatic Lemon Skunk, Automatic White Russian, Automatic Hindu Kush

Mdanzig seeds- Masterlow, Power Stout, Blue Streak

Dutchbreed- Lowberry, Blue Barrel, Little Red Ryderhood, Lowryder Mint, Low Master, Mini Thunderfuck, Short Term Amnesia 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the Joint Doctors grow guide for the original Lowryder-


OFFICIAL LOWRYDER GROW GUIDE (10/04) - written by the Joint doctor

Preferred growing methods

Indoors, Lowryder performs very well in soil mix (pots or beds) or in soil-less systems, where it can be cultivated from seed to bud in two months &#8211; 18 hours of light per day is recommended all the way through. Switching light cycles down to 12 hours may diminish yields and shorten the already-short life cycle slightly. Because Lowryder&#8217;s life cycle is so brief, cloning becomes impracticable, so only plants from seed are grown. By default, Lowryder is a great choice for sea-of-green.

Because flowering plants and seedlings can be maintained in the same room, Lowryder presents new possibilities for the small to medium home grower, including &#8220;staggering&#8221; your indoor harvest. A true continuous harvest system may be achieved by planting new plants periodically to replace the ones that have been harvested. This ensures that a grow
room is always full and always producing fresh bud, and one never has too much work at once. Click here to learn more about the Joint Doctor&#8217;s &#8220;1-2-3&#8221; continuous harvest method.

For best results, place jiffy pellet or plant directly into 1-2 gal.pots. Alternatively, start in 4-inch peat pots, then place
rootbound females into a plant bed after sexing (at approx. 17-20 days) &#8211; this may result in smaller plants than the first method. Grown under a 12 to 24 hour/daylight cycle from start to finish. I recommend 18 hours per day; this can be decreased to 16 after the first month with no loss of yield.


Outdoors: sow directly into soil after soaking, in 2 gal. pots or plant beds. New stands of Lowryder can be planted up until late summer, to ensure a continuous harvest outdoors. Avoid transplanting if you can, but do so if plants become rootbound. Rogue (remove) males at three weeks.


Growth Factors

Lowryder is extremely versatile in that it can be cultivated in virtually any climate or grow environment. In fact, it has pushed the envelope of growing, enabling early harvests in unlikely places like Finland, the North West Territories, and other northern, short-season, or high altitude areas. It is also well-adapted to backyard gardens, windowsills and patios where plants can be easily concealed because of their tiny size.

Nothing will mature earlier or faster than Lowryder! When other varieties have barely begun flowering, Lowryder outdoor growers are kicking up their feet and already enjoying their fresh harvests. 


Characteristics

Lowryder virtually does away with the vegetative growth stage: it passes almost immediately from the seedling stage to the flowering period. To our knowledge, Lowryder has the shortest known life cycle and height in the cannabis species.
Male plants may be identified as such after approx. 17-20 days, while females show themselves a couple days later. Plants will even flower under a continuous light regime.

Lowryder females usually grow no taller than 16-20 inches. 12-16 inches is typical. Light intensity, pot size, and proper pH all play an important role in determining the size of plants at maturity &#8211; the better the conditions, the bigger the yield. Plants produce one main cola, although when they receive adequate light, lower nodes branch out profusely.

Yield and height are dependent on obvious growth factors. For example, plants kept in small peat cups on a windowsill may yield as little as 1 g. and grow no taller than 6 inches, with no branching whatsoever; while a plant in a 4-gallon container under high-intensity lighting and good cultivation methods, can turn into a profusely branched, two-foot wide 45-gram bud monster.


Fertilizer: During the first two weeks of growth, Lowryder should be weekly light feedings of a &#8220;grow&#8221; type nutrient solution, with micronutrients. When plants pass into full flower, they should be started on a &#8220;bloom&#8221; regime for weeks 4 through 6. Mycorise-type biological amendments (root stimulators) seem to increase growth significantly.

Average flowering time
Indoors: 40-45 days (after a 15-20 day seedling stage)
Outdoors: ripens approx. 60 days after seed is sown.
Note: 100% of plants display the auto-flowering genotype.

AVERAGE HEIGHT
12 inches. Minimum: 5 inches, maximum 16 inches (very light-dependent, with slight phenotype variations).

YIELD
Depending on light and other factors, Lowryder yields up to 45 g &#8211; one report even claims 96 g for one exceptional plant under hydroponics. Extremely light-dependent in terms of yield. Without adequate conditions, plants may stay extremely small, almost comically so &#8211; but still produce a decent smoke.

Buds are compacted close-quartered, slightly irregular and variable, with high bud/leaf ratio. Thick pistils, with orange coloration, and medium-sized, individual calyxes. Tends to be top-heavy indoors. Typically, budding sites start very close to the ground.

High is uplifting, surprisingly strong. Well-rounded. Best suited for outdoor activities. Smoke is smooth with pleasant, earthy undertones. Smell is not overpowering. Unique flavor, with echoes of NL and William&#8217;s Wonder in the bouquet.

JD on nutes:

I get a lot of requests for more info on nutrient needs for Lowryder. This is a hard question to answer as it depends how much money you want to shell out for nutrient products.

I get Advanced Nutrient products (many say the best) at a discount and I have adapted their formula for my own use. Advanced Nutrients provides a complete program for an 8-week grow and has a guide for different growing mediums.

For the first two weeks, I use what they recommend for seedlings.

Then I use the Micro 2+ Light Feeding program for the rest of their life cycle. I usually skip week 3 and 5 to bring it down to a 6 week program which I begin as soon as LRs are sexed.

I know it sounds complicated. Obviously all this is not needed.

As a rule of thumb, treat Lowryders like seedlings for the first 2-3 weeks, then switch them onto a light bloom program. So, you feed them a seedling/transplanting formula the first 2 weeks, then switch to a bloom fertilizer with something like a 5-10-5 or 1-2-1 ratio of N-P-K.

Give them a feeding of bloom fertilizer every week on weeks 3,4,5,6. Just pH-balanced water on week 7. Flushing solution on week 8.

...or for organic freaks, just plant into organic soil mix with bat guano mixed in... and put away the calculator... .


----------



## Majikoopa (Apr 12, 2009)

Well, I'm subscribed. Good job so far, I can't wait to see how it turns out. Fair warning, my autoflower took about 85 days to get just right... although I could have smoked a very small amount of bud around day 60


----------



## chusett (Apr 12, 2009)

Do u use a humidifier or any kind?? How do youi get good humidity? I went out and bought myself a damn $60 honeywell hcm800 today and my humidity still isn't good.. it's only at like 25%...


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 12, 2009)

Majikoopa said:


> Well, I'm subscribed. Good job so far, I can't wait to see how it turns out. Fair warning, my auto flower took about 85 days to get just right... although I could have smoked a very small amount of bud around day 60


What auto flower strain was it? What where you growing it in? and sry for the attack lol but what lights as well? 

I did have one question about the auto flower variety.. at what point (meaning what do you look for to know) when the plant is about done and requires harvesting?

Thank you for your comments!!


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 12, 2009)

chusett said:


> Do u use a humidifier or any kind?? How do you get good humidity? I went out and bought myself a damn $60 Honeywell hcm800 today and my humidity still isn't good.. it's only at like 25%...



No I don't do anything special at all.. it must be the fact that its freezing in my house (AC set to about 71/72) and the lights and lack of "major" ventilation in the closet it sits in.... I think its when the cold hits the heat from the cfls at the door of the closet all day maybe?!? I wouldn't know for sure but that is all i can think of. I was curious to see if I could get a higher reading by leaving some water in an extra tub I use for mixing new nutes in. I didnt see any change so I stoped. But maybe over time, warmer water.. i figure the heat would evap the water and create some more humidity...


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 12, 2009)

And for a late night surprise we have some HQ pictures  If you are using Firefox you can actually click on these twice for ultra all up in that bitches face resolution.. yea baby...yea

Some from the first week of sprouting

Some more from the first week

First week sprouting no nutes yet

America Looking good

Me touching up on America..tsk..tsk..

Eve doing her thing low pro

The new setup with additional CFL from home depot (only 15 bucks for the bulb)

Dont remember who this one is.. (I know im a bad parent.. i need to know who they are at all times!!! LOL)

HD aerial view

ROOTS HD 1

ROOTS HD 2

ROOTS HD 3

ROOTS HD 4

ok well thats all I got for everyone... we will see if anything happens on easter...  thank you for tuning it.. hope it was fun!!!


----------



## chusett (Apr 12, 2009)

growthspurt said:


> No I don't do anything special at all.. it must be the fact that its freezing in my house (AC set to about 71/72) and the lights and lack of "major" ventilation in the closet it sits in.... I think its when the cold hits the heat from the cfls at the door of the closet all day maybe?!? I wouldn't know for sure but that is all i can think of. I was curious to see if I could get a higher reading by leaving some water in an extra tub I use for mixing new nutes in. I didnt see any change so I stoped. But maybe over time, warmer water.. i figure the heat would evap the water and create some more humidity...


lol im not sure myself.. but now im starting to get pist. I remember now why i never bothered starting up this operation a few years back. Granted back then i was in school and also not living in a space that can do this, but i now remember all the BS. My basement itself can totally be a killer of this.. ive went out and bought a fucking humidifier .. ive got 2 fans in there and one of them expensive inline cooling fans with filter combo... the shit is still like 86 degrees and humidity is garbage. 

What a setup i got. I got sprouts wilting.. i got a hygromter that fucking reads L0% .. whatever that means is beyond me. I've got a honeywell hcm800 in there and its kicked humidity up by like 3% (when the hygromter actually chooses to read humidity once in a while). 

Im bout to just blow this tub up. The nylon ties (retractable thingies) that came from HTG for hanging up my light/reflector basically gave out last night and the whole light dropped on my 2 tubs. I mean wtf can get worse


----------



## chusett (Apr 12, 2009)

whats more crazy is im reading your post carefully now.. and im almost in the same type of environment.. but why my setup temps/humidity is rocket sciience is beyond me. Im in a basement.. its normally cold already (no AC running).. temps are like 71-72 to begin with. 

I got htis 600w light, and like 3 fans now.. (theres even a fucking fan outside the tent blowing air into a vent!!).


----------



## Majikoopa (Apr 13, 2009)

growthspurt said:


> What auto flower strain was it? What where you growing it in? and sry for the attack lol but what lights as well?
> 
> I did have one question about the auto flower variety.. at what point (meaning what do you look for to know) when the plant is about done and requires harvesting?
> 
> Thank you for your comments!!



Lol, I am glad to answer all of the questions for a fellow autoflower grower, so don't worry. 

I grew the strain that started it all: original Lowryder. I grew it in an organic soil mix (1 gallon per plant) with all organic nutrients throughout the process and I did it under fluorescent bulbs. I started with cool white and then switched to warm white once it started to flower a little. The red-spectrum lighting that you get from a warm white fluoro is really good for flowering stages.

You can tell that it is time to harvest the same way you do with any other strain. You want to make sure that there are some nice, frosty crystals on the surface of the bud and the hairs are kind of a caramel color. Some people prefer to wait until the hairs turn orange, but in my opinion the plant is past its prime at that point.

The longer you let it go past maturity, the more THC the plant will be converting to CBD. CBD is the chemical that gives you that disorienting couch-lock feeling.


----------



## Majikoopa (Apr 13, 2009)

chusett said:


> lol im not sure myself.. but now im starting to get pist. I remember now why i never bothered starting up this operation a few years back. Granted back then i was in school and also not living in a space that can do this, but i now remember all the BS. My basement itself can totally be a killer of this.. ive went out and bought a fucking humidifier .. ive got 2 fans in there and one of them expensive inline cooling fans with filter combo... the shit is still like 86 degrees and humidity is garbage.
> 
> What a setup i got. I got sprouts wilting.. i got a hygromter that fucking reads L0% .. whatever that means is beyond me. I've got a honeywell hcm800 in there and its kicked humidity up by like 3% (when the hygromter actually chooses to read humidity once in a while).
> 
> Im bout to just blow this tub up. The nylon ties (retractable thingies) that came from HTG for hanging up my light/reflector basically gave out last night and the whole light dropped on my 2 tubs. I mean wtf can get worse


I definately think you are stressing way too much about humidity. I live in a really, really dry climate and do nothing to change the humidity. I can tell you personally, great bud grows here. The reason why is that a dryer humidity actually works better for bud... that is probably why your plants wilted. I actually have a copy of the "The Indoor Grower's High Yield Guide" and it actually suggests you get a dehumidifier for your grow.

Think about it this way: these plants do not live in a steam room out in nature do they? Plants can be 10 feet tall in the woods and nobody checks their humidity. To quote YoyoGrow, you are not building a space ship, you are growing some plants


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 13, 2009)

Majikoopa said:


> Lol, I am glad to answer all of the questions for a fellow autoflower grower, so don't worry.
> 
> I grew the strain that started it all: original Lowryder. I grew it in an organic soil mix (1 gallon per plant) with all organic nutrients throughout the process and I did it under fluorescent bulbs. I started with cool white and then switched to warm white once it started to flower a little. The red-spectrum lighting that you get from a warm white fluoro is really good for flowering stages.
> 
> ...


Awesome that's great info!


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 13, 2009)

Majikoopa said:


> I definately think you are stressing way too much about humidity. I live in a really, really dry climate and do nothing to change the humidity. I can tell you personally, great bud grows here. The reason why is that a dryer humidity actually works better for bud... that is probably why your plants wilted. I actually have a copy of the "The Indoor Grower's High Yield Guide" and it actually suggests you get a dehumidifier for your grow.
> 
> Think about it this way: these plants do not live in a steam room out in nature do they? Plants can be 10 feet tall in the woods and nobody checks their humidity. To quote YoyoGrow, you are not building a space ship, you are growing some plants


Good point!


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 13, 2009)

*APRIL 13th 2009 (15 Days old)

**hello .. im kinda tired so Ill just post an update in pics.... thank you! 


















































































Lata!


*


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 14, 2009)

Ok everyone, the newest peice of information I have gathered from my intel is the following stolen sentences from a thread I found and pasted earlier in my journal.

 "As a rule of thumb, treat Lowryders like seedlings for the first 2-3 weeks, then switch them onto a light bloom program. So, you feed them a seedling/transplanting formula the first 2 weeks, then switch to a bloom fertilizer with something like a 5-10-5 or 1-2-1 ratio of N-P-K.

Give them a feeding of bloom fertilizer every week on weeks 3,4,5,6. Just pH-balanced water on week 7. Flushing solution on week 8."

now that im almost on week three and was confused about when I should switch them to bloom since they are autoflower..... well now i know and its what im going to do. If anyone on here has grown the auto flower and has another suggestion, or even just a green thumbs up for me doing this. Thank you!!


----------



## Majikoopa (Apr 14, 2009)

growthspurt said:


> Ok everyone, the newest peice of information I have gathered from my intel is the following stolen sentences from a thread I found and pasted earlier in my journal.
> 
> "As a rule of thumb, treat Lowryders like seedlings for the first 2-3 weeks, then switch them onto a light bloom program. So, you feed them a seedling/transplanting formula the first 2 weeks, then switch to a bloom fertilizer with something like a 5-10-5 or 1-2-1 ratio of N-P-K.
> 
> ...


Well, I would honestly wait until they actually start to flower a little to start your bloom nutes, otherwise the plant has a surplus of nutrients that it is not using and you run the risk of hurting it. 

A lot of people will give you the advice that they start to flower within a certain period of time, but a whole bunch of factors come into play. It's only the _best case scenario _when they flower in three weeks. I have had them flower as soon as three weeks or as late as 6 or even 8 weeks. I think it has to do with the amount of light they get, because they will bloom sooner under powerful lights.

My biggest piece of advice I can give about autoflower plants is that they flower when they flower and they are done when they are done. Don't get too excited and try to force it to be done in 60 days like the advertisements say. It can take longer, and if you wait you will get more and better bud.

My first batch was under low-light growing for seeds and it took from early November until early February. But yeah, let the plant tell you when it is ready to flower and receive bloom nutes. I let it take its time finishing and I got over 200 seeds and about 1/2 oz smokable per plant.


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 14, 2009)

Yea I agree wit not rushing it.... ok well I will continue posting pics and maybe at one point someone will tell me to go bloom if I hadn't noticed already


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 15, 2009)

*APRIL 15th 2009 (17 Days old)*


Well just two days after the previous picture update, have been maintaining constant 6.0 ph. I find it sometimes creeps to 6.5 and I just fix it with a little ph down. They have fluffed a whole bunch and im noticing they are starting to drink more. I filled the res up last night with enough ph tested water to get it about 1/2 inch ABOVE the 6 gallon mark and it was about 1/2 BELOW in the morning when I woke. Here is the results of an overnight party with my ladies binge drinking the water and nutes... they fattened up for me..lol enjoy..


----------



## GetHighLikePlanes (Apr 15, 2009)

Hi growthspurt!
I just subscribed to this thread as I will be using a similar system in the near future. I'm happy I caught this thread early so I can watch it from beginning to end. Is this grow strictly CFL's or are you flowering with something else? Your plants are looking pretty healthy and I'm interested to see this autoflowering strain. Thanks!


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 15, 2009)

Yes I plan on staying strictly CFL. thank you for subscribing, let us know when you start yours!


----------



## chunkymunkey33 (Apr 17, 2009)

Good job so far growthspurt. I just read through and I'd like to give you a little of my own input. First of all you should follow thatgrow guide by the joint doctor pretty closely until you figure things out for yourself. That's what I did when I started with autoflowers. I've been growing them for about 16 months with a harvest every 3 weeks and I love them. I'm at the point now where I average about 20-30 grams per plant. I've grown LR2's solely up until 3 weeks ago. I know have a few White Dwarfs and a few Afghan Kush Ryders going. I grow in soil, and started out with cfl's. I don't mean to step on any toes, but I wanted to say that it definitely shouldn't take 6-8 weeks to show sex on an autoflowering strain considering it's life cycle is at most 10 weeks. Mine always show between 15-21 days. It didn't seem to effect your babies this time, but as with all strains you want to give your plants at most a vitamin/hormone solution like thrive alive. No nutes. It also looks like your plants are a little hot. See how the ridges on the leaves are real spred out and pointing upwards? That means they are trying to dissapate the heat. The thermometer you have is on the wall which is a completely different temperature than where those plants are. You need to get a small one that you can put right by the plants. I'd be willing to bet that it's at least 85-90 by them. I saw you asked a question about harvest too. The pistils (or "hairs"), should just be a tip for you ( once about half of them turn orange), to start looking at the trichomes (the crystals). Go to radio shack and pick up a mini handheld microscope. It's like 12 dollars, it has a light on it, and it can zoom 60 to 100x. Here's a link so you can see what it looks like - http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2179604
When you notice about half of the pistils turning orange you look at the trichs and as time progresses they will go from clear to cloudy to amber. If you want more of a sativa "head" high you want the trichs to be some clear some cloudy, and if you want more of a body buzz you harvest them when the trichs are more cloudy to amber. I should say that if a strain is indica dominant and you harvest it earlier, it's not going to be like a sativa it's just going to be more of a head high. I like to harvest my LR2's when they are clear to cloudy but that's just me. I'll probably do the same with my white dwarfs since they are a white widow cross and white widow is 60% sativa and 40% indica. Sorry if I rambled, and if you have any questions that I might be able to answer feel free to ask. If you feel that I helped some positive rep would be appreciated. Thanks and good luck.


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 17, 2009)

chunkymunkey33 said:


> It didn't seem to effect your babies this time, but as with all strains you want to give your plants at most a vitamin/hormone solution like thrive alive. No nutes.


So you are suggesting that I shouldn't be using the micro/grow/bloom nutes as they are bad for autoflowers or that they just aren't the best choice? I was planning on switching to to micro/bloom as soon as I start to see them flowering do you not recommend that? 

Also thank you so much for all that information, I hope you can follow along my grow and offer more advice in the future if you feel nessacary, this is my first grow and I hope it to be a successfull one.


----------



## chunkymunkey33 (Apr 17, 2009)

It looks good so far, especially for your first grow. I wasn't suggesting that you shouldn't use those nutes, I was just saying that in the beginning you may want to use something like thrive alive in the first few weeks because most auto's are sensitive to nutes. After that I change to 1/2 strength grow and and 1/4 strength bloom along with 1/2 strength micronutrients every other week for a couple of weeks increasing each slowly, and then on the 6th week I use 3/4 strength bloom and 1/4 strength grow increasing the bloom gradually to full strength by the 8th week and phasing out the grow nutrients. I continue using the micronutrients every other week and I also use the thrive alive at 1/2 strength every watering. I wouldn't cut out the grow nutrients like the other guy said unless your bloom contains some nitrogen. Mine does not, that's why I use mine as long as I do. If you don't have nitrogen your fan leaves will yellow and die and your fan leaves are what gathers the light and CO2 for your plants.


----------



## Majikoopa (Apr 18, 2009)

chunkymunkey33 said:


> It looks good so far, especially for your first grow. I wasn't suggesting that you shouldn't use those nutes, I was just saying that in the beginning you may want to use something like thrive alive in the first few weeks because most auto's are sensitive to nutes. After that I change to 1/2 strength grow and and 1/4 strength bloom along with 1/2 strength micronutrients every other week for a couple of weeks increasing each slowly, and then on the 6th week I use 3/4 strength bloom and 1/4 strength grow increasing the bloom gradually to full strength by the 8th week and phasing out the grow nutrients. I continue using the micronutrients every other week and I also use the thrive alive at 1/2 strength every watering. I wouldn't cut out the grow nutrients like the other guy said unless your bloom contains some nitrogen. Mine does not, that's why I use mine as long as I do. If you don't have nitrogen your fan leaves will yellow and die and your fan leaves are what gathers the light and CO2 for your plants.


I didn't say to cut out the nutrients all together. I said that you need to wait on BLOOM nutes until the plant is blooming. Until then it is a good idea to use all purpose or veg nutes. My advice was sound.


----------



## chunkymunkey33 (Apr 18, 2009)

You know what, I just went back and looked at the posts in the thread and I was mistaken. Growthspurt had a quote that said switch to bloom, and then you commented under it and that's why I said what I said. I read it and then commented later so in the time inbetween my mind must have intertwined the two. I apologize. I was stoned to the bone.


----------



## Majikoopa (Apr 18, 2009)

chunkymunkey33 said:


> You know what, I just went back and looked at the posts in the thread and I was mistaken. Growthspurt had a quote that said switch to bloom, and then you commented under it and that's why I said what I said. I read it and then commented later so in the time inbetween my mind must have intertwined the two. I apologize. I was stoned to the bone.


No biggie. Thanks


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 19, 2009)

*APRIL 19th 2009 (21 Days old)*

aww guys.. thanks for not fighting...lol Soooo I got a new update. I just flushed the res and added 1/2 strength nutes. As you can see from the first picture below America is no doubt the "large one" of the group. I was informed last week about my heat issue since the leave ends were pointing up in an attempt ro expell heat. So I bought a blower from walmart and its been acting as the exhaust to the grow room. Enjoy!















































Once again always accepting input!


----------



## GetHighLikePlanes (Apr 19, 2009)

Hi growthspurt,
The plants are looking great! America is definitely the most bushy out of all the plants. I notice that the plants with the most foliage are under or near that blue spectrum/daylight CFL. Do you believe growing 5 plants in the SH bubbleponics system would pose a problem later on when they mature more. Thanks and great job!


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 19, 2009)

Thank you for pointing that out.. I have raised that one a little higher than the others to see if anything changes. I just recently took a close look at Americas stem and its getting thick!! I believe that you can grow 6 lowryder or lowryder mixed strains. (autoflower or not) But everyone says for normal growing you should plant 6, then normally half will be males, then you remove them and end up on average with 2-3 good sized plants.


----------



## mike.lawry420 (Apr 19, 2009)

nice grow bruh,ur WD's are shitting on my one lol...lookin really good!!


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 20, 2009)

HAPPY 420!! seems that "America" isnt satisfied with the space she was given as now she is starting to get all up in "Determia's" spot. Remember "Determia" is the one that spouted about a week late and now is visually similar to the rest. Seems that life will not cut this little lady any breaks..lol


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 21, 2009)

I woke up this morning and there where spots on my pride and joy "AMERICA", I checked the feeder tubes and noticed they were all gooky and shit.. so I took the lid off and totally cleaned out the res, and feeder tubs and air stones AND the filter.. i took the plants to the shower and cleaned there roots cause they had that shit in it too.. I replaced it with 1/4 nutes (im going back from 1/2 this week.) Hope all stays well. If i would have had a more delicate strain im sure i would have lost one of them. So I think they are showing sex now

I will post up pictures later tonight!


----------



## Happygrower (Apr 22, 2009)

nice grow....very interested to see how it turns out! Starting my own white dwarfs soon!


----------



## tical916 (Apr 22, 2009)

Hello You have a nice growing going so far. I`m plan on starting my first batch of autoflowers by next week. I definately will be following this to see how everything goes. I`ve got 5 seeds of auto blueberry and 5 autoak-47.

I had a few questions on your grow, what are the cardboard/cds for on the seedlings? Protect the roots from light? I don't know if you stated this before, but you plan on switching to an hps during flowering?


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 22, 2009)

tical916 said:


> I had a few questions on your grow, what are the cardboard/cds for on the seedlings? Protect the roots from light?
> 
> I don't know if you stated this before, but you plan on switching to an hps during flowering?


thank you for stopping by and checking my shit out  Yes the cardboard was for preventing light from shining into the Res. I would recommend using a paper plate cutout as I switched to that because the cardboard would bend because of the light. 

And no I plan to stay with CFL's to remain "stealthy"  Looking forward to seeing yours.


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 22, 2009)

*APRIL 22nd 2009 (24 Days old) 


*Ok well I wanted to post these up so I can get any advice on how they are. I was nervous about males and since im all paranoid i took pictures of it all. I think they still look beautiful, I hope they are all females and they were purchased auto fems... Anyways drum roll please....


----------



## bigballin23 (Apr 22, 2009)

Them are beautiful man


----------



## yourlocal420 (Apr 23, 2009)

Lookin good man, I am super jealous I ordered 5 fem and nothin cracked! I am soooo pissed.


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 23, 2009)

bigballin23 said:


> Them are beautiful man



Thank you man, very much.. I hope they continue that way.


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 23, 2009)

yourlocal420 said:


> Lookin good man, I am super jealous I ordered 5 fem and nothin cracked! I am soooo pissed.



thank you, where did you get them seeds from? what site?


----------



## mike.lawry420 (Apr 24, 2009)

still lookin good growth!!

my lady showed sex 2day!!!!!!


----------



## jnova (Apr 27, 2009)

looking good, im lovin this thread. i just put my poped WD seed in dirt  i was wondering where u got ur seeds from?


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 28, 2009)

*APRIL 28th 2009 (30 Days old) *


Hello all, just wanted to give a 30 day picture update. They all look good.. of course you can see two runts. But I def need another VEG light. I plan on going out this week and grabbing another. I believe once I get that they will all grow a little bigger then be just about ready to start budding all over the place  lets seee




















































































ENJOY!! and let me know if you noticed anything strange..lol


ALSO.. if these were your plants.... would they be on grow or bloom nutes? And how much?


----------



## Roseman (Apr 28, 2009)

Man, I sure hate to tell ya, but I see a lot of male flowers, I thought you had auto flowering pre-sexed female seeds (plants).


----------



## Roseman (Apr 28, 2009)

tell me what you see:







I am adding another pic to the collection.*Male Female pics* 
permalink












*[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]hermaphrodite[/FONT]*









FULL MALE:








Start of male:



FEMALE:



MALE:







Male preflowers :




Female:


----------



## Roseman (Apr 28, 2009)

I read on autoflowering seeds, you go to BLOOM nutes the 2nd week.


----------



## harper2002 (Apr 28, 2009)

Nice plants mate, im growing white dwarf but do u think they would do ok outdoors up in scotland? Oh how strong do thay smell indoors?


----------



## lurkmaster (Apr 28, 2009)

Yo man get the male the fuck out of there unless you want seeds all in your bud.


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 28, 2009)

ok do we have any pictures of a HERMy


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 28, 2009)

Im kinda confused cause I put that simliar pic up last week and no one said anything.


----------



## supaflyhigh (Apr 28, 2009)

hey man, they deffo look MALE. Get rid quick, nice little setup man, keep it up.


----------



## lurkmaster (Apr 28, 2009)

Those male parts are fucking time bombs, even if its a hermi, those pods are ready to expload and seed all of your bud, be really careful taking them out, you don't want to rupture any of the sacs...


roseman posted pics of hermi plant







Looks like your feminized seeds were just regular seeds.


----------



## gardenman (Apr 28, 2009)

wow i'm glad someone finally told him. i just looked at thread and thought to myself.. fem seeds? Definately male. Dont be in a hurry to kill the male.. why not make your own seeds of that stuff so you wont have to buy anymore seeds? Just a thought. Happy growing ;]


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 28, 2009)

I removed all the males.. how about there was only one damn female.. shit.. I thought fem seeds where fem seeds.. what the hell caused that? i gotem from dr.chronic. Anyone else you recommend that has seeds that are REALLY fem?


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 28, 2009)

even though proper thinking leads you to beleive that its not dr.chronics fault.. since they just get it from buddaseeds or budda seed bank.. whatever it is. They only hold white dwarf and red dwarf.. and funny to think i was gonna get the red dwarf next.. hell no. Ima go with a different company in total next time.


----------



## GetHighLikePlanes (Apr 28, 2009)

Hey man,
I'm really sorry that you got all males. Even if it's not Dr. Chronic's fault I would definitely e-mail them and let them know and see what they can do for you. That's just bad genetics. You've done everything correctly and I'm sorry to see this happen to you, buddy. Hopefully, you'll get some nice nugs off that one female and you could always clone it. Anyways man, keep us posted.


----------



## yourlocal420 (Apr 28, 2009)

Hey feel fotunate at least your seeds cracked. I ordered White Dwarf Fem from the attitude and the only thing that cracked were the freebies. Third grow with autoflowers and the germ rate and M/F ratio sucks. When you do get a plant they end up very well tho. Just not worth the hastle.


----------



## Roseman (Apr 29, 2009)

Hermies are simply BOTH on the same plant.


----------



## lurkmaster (Apr 29, 2009)

I don't think many companies really put much effort into autoflowering strains except joint doctor. Dutch passion's autoflowering strains aren't 100% autoflowering they are just ruderalis crosses, which is garbage.

There must have been a male hidden in the breeding room when they made the batch white dwarf seeds that you got.


----------



## lurkmaster (Apr 29, 2009)

yourlocal420 said:


> Hey feel fotunate at least your seeds cracked. I ordered White Dwarf Fem from the attitude and the only thing that cracked were the freebies. Third grow with autoflowers and the germ rate and M/F ratio sucks. When you do get a plant they end up very well tho. Just not worth the hastle.


Autoflowering strains in general aren't worth the hassle.


----------



## chunkymunkey33 (Apr 29, 2009)

I personally have done good with auto's, and with the joint doctor having the Easy Rider which can produce up to 2 ounces per plant...I think that's worth it. Growth I would email the doc like get high said, just to see what he says. Out of the 5 WD's I got, 3 out 5 cracked and all 3 were female. I doubt that they were straight males. It takes longer to show sex for females so the pistils may not have shown yet. Most feminized seeds are seeds from hermies, which means that if they're stressed they too will become hermies. They must have gotten stressed somehow. Did you ever get a new themometer to see what they canopy temp was instead of the room temp? Those leaves curling up and spreading like that means they are trying cool off, and if they were heat stressed that could have caused them to become hermies. Giving them nutes too early may have caused stress, but I would think that it's probably the heat. I remember your temps being about 80, which is just the room temp. I'd bet it's at least 10-15 degrees hotter than that under those lights.


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 29, 2009)

I actually eventually got a probe temp and under the canopy it is actually around 77 thoughout the day. I will write them to see what was up. Right now im down to one and Ive allready flushed the res to give it a new fresh set of nutes (calculated for one of course) We will see how this one plant does by itself. I need to check all day today to make sure no dead roots are stuck anywhere. ONce again everyone, thank you for your continued help and support during this time. I am in NO way giving up as Roseman said before I HAD some very healthy MALES, which shows I know how to take care of a plant.. just need to attract more females this time LMAO! anyway guys ill post an update once everything starts looking up again!!!


----------



## (Butters) (Apr 29, 2009)

gardenman said:


> wow i'm glad someone finally told him. i just looked at thread and thought to myself.. fem seeds? Definately male. Dont be in a hurry to kill the male.. why not make your own seeds of that stuff so you wont have to buy anymore seeds? Just a thought. Happy growing ;]


Given that the white dwarf is a mix of different types of strains. Should he take one of his males and pollinate his female, will he get white dwarf seeds? Or a mix of seeds that have varying traits of all the crosses within his original white dwarf seeds? I ask as I'm thinking about making my own seeds with my auto blueberry x auto ak47 seeds and can't find much info anywhere on crossing like this.


----------



## (Butters) (Apr 29, 2009)

Plants look great so far. Even the unfortunate males. GREAT thread with lots of useful info for those trying out autoflowering strains. Scribed.


----------



## chunkymunkey33 (Apr 29, 2009)

(Butters) said:


> Given that the white dwarf is a mix of different types of strains. Should he take one of his males and pollinate his female, will he get white dwarf seeds? Or a mix of seeds that have varying traits of all the crosses within his original white dwarf seeds? I ask as I'm thinking about making my own seeds with my auto blueberry x auto ak47 seeds and can't find much info anywhere on crossing like this.


 
If you pollinate a female with one of your males of the same strain, yes you will get seeds that are the same strain. What happens sometimes is you get certain phenotypes of the various strains that make up the strain that you have. Like for instance one of your plants may be taller, or show sex early, or grow bushier, and others may not but they are still the same strain. What you should do is take your healthiest looking male and collect pollen from it, then pollinate your healthiest female that shows good characteristics. Usually it takes about 6 weeks for seeds to mature, and then after harvesting you should let them sit in a dry cool place for at least a month. You can try and geminate before that but they probably won't crack, and if they do the plants will usually grow sickly and or be more succeptable to problems. I'm stoned to the bone right now so if I don't make sense or if I forgot something let me know.


----------



## (Butters) (Apr 29, 2009)

chunkymunkey33 said:


> If you pollinate a female with one of your males of the same strain, yes you will get seeds that are the same strain. What happens sometimes is you get certain phenotypes of the various strains that make up the strain that you have. Like for instance one of your plants may be taller, or show sex early, or grow bushier, and others may not but they are still the same strain. What you should do is take your healthiest looking male and collect pollen from it, then pollinate your healthiest female that shows good characteristics. Usually it takes about 6 weeks for seeds to mature, and then after harvesting you should let them sit in a dry cool place for at least a month. You can try and geminate before that but they probably won't crack, and if they do the plants will usually grow sickly and or be more succeptable to problems. I'm stoned to the bone right now so if I don't make sense or if I forgot something let me know.


Dude...you f'n rock. Couldn't find the answer to that question anywhere! Thanks man.

And GrowthSpurt...any thoughts on collecting some pollen from your strong lookin males to pollinate your chic with? Maybe next batch you could just make your own fem'd seeds instead of having to take some places word for it?


----------



## growthspurt (Apr 30, 2009)

Yea I plan to venture into that later, but as of now i want to keep it strictly female....lol So I drained the res two times in the past two days so I could make sure I got all the lose roots that may have been floating around after the pulling. When I pulled the filter off the pump during the second cleaning it was PACKED full of dead roots (good thing that does alot of the cleaning for you) You just have to check on it all the time. I got myself one of those small fish nets that you use in small aquariums and what not... its opening is about half the size of a business card. Maybe one alittle bigger would be easier for now but I was assuming I would be trying to pick shit up with roots from 5/6 plants not 1  Soo after work tommorrow I promise some pics of the lonely lady.


NOTE: I wanted to mention that after the second res clean earlier today (i guess you can say yesterday...lol) I added 1/6 micro, 1/12 grow and 1/12 bloom


----------



## drivenhollow21 (Apr 30, 2009)

dude that sucks i have been buying white dwarf seeds since they came out and i have never gotten a male and 100% germ rate that honestly sucks dude i have me some real nice plants growing right now i will post pics soon. I think you got a bad batch or something because i also know people who grow these and have never had probs


----------



## FiZiKs (May 1, 2009)

Thats crazy, where'd you get your WD Seeds at? Cause i went to WWMS.com and ordered a 5 pack of their Fem WD's and so far 4 of 5 have showed to be females rite off at 2 inch's. The other im hopein will come through also but it had a little stretching and stem prblem so it's growth slowed but all of its sisters have all poped their hairs out at 2 inchs and under.

\/\/\/My Grow Log
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/174326-mile-high-first-grow.html?highlight=white+dwarf


----------



## drivenhollow21 (May 1, 2009)

attitude seedbank the one and only


----------



## growthspurt (May 6, 2009)

Hello all who may be following   I just wanted to update really quick with a pic of the one lady. Along with two pics of this one random seed I had that started to grow outside for about 3 weeks and because of lack of sun it is really small. I just move her inside since she has grown little hairs showing its sex at such a small size. I plan to transport this to one of the available spots on the SH system. I have a question though.. when you start seeing all those pistils everywhere that is it being "female" but its not actually considered flowering right? Im just trying to find out if the "flowering period and when you would switch bloom"" starts when you start seeing the pistils or wait till you see bud. Remember my issue only comes because normal people growing NON autoflower would see what the plant would go to.. then switch to 12/12 and start giving bloom nutes. Me on the other hand have autoflower and do not know what to look for to consider it to be in flowering so I can properly provide it with the proper nutrients.

My only lady...(besides my real one LOL)








and here is that one little one that started showing sex so I plan to start vegging it to a good size. 

NOTE: this is from random seed I found and threw in a pot outside in very little sun.. I saw the hairs and decided to use it.


----------



## chunkymunkey33 (May 7, 2009)

That looks hilarious. That would be awesome if it just yielded a fat 2 gram bud.


----------



## growthspurt (May 7, 2009)

thats exactly what I said to my girl.. it reminds me of them people who dont need to shave but once a year.. and after all that time.. it looks like that on the bottom of their chin..lol


----------



## growthspurt (May 7, 2009)

UPDATE: I just switched to a part grow part bloom mixture. Lets see the progress over the next week.

Also I moved the mini female to the SH system now and after one day it looks totally fine, no visable stress.


----------



## mike.lawry420 (May 7, 2009)

dammmnnn brooo...sorry 2 hear that about the males

i pluckd some balls off my hermie 2day..i refuse 2 let her go jus yet,she smells so sweet and fruityyy


----------



## growthspurt (May 9, 2009)

so you can do that? Never thought if it.. so if one comes just keep removing its balls maybe eventually it will get the point!! lol if not atleast your trying your best to prevent pollination. If you have others I would def move it though..lol


----------



## Majikoopa (May 10, 2009)

growthspurt said:


> thats exactly what I said to my girl.. it reminds me of them people who dont need to shave but once a year.. and after all that time.. it looks like that on the bottom of their chin..lol


Yeah... I know a woman who has hairs on her chin like that. Needless to say


----------



## SpaceGhost69 (May 10, 2009)

These Autos look real nice man! I hate to tell you that every picture so far is a male plant


----------



## DubRules (May 14, 2009)

weird, man. i have a few days left on my white dwarves and they look sick. i ordered 5 feminized seeds from dr chronic and they all sprouted and were females. they looked way different than yours though. they stretched like a bitch and only got a few lower branches. i am using soil and a 400w hps so that may be the reason for the difference.


----------



## kremnon (May 20, 2009)

at least they didn't look like this










this is the ultimate dwarf that ill probably never harvest cuz it's just so cute. jk ill smoke it in a minute


----------



## kremnon (May 20, 2009)

if u want to make sum beans for later u can put a white paper bag over ur male to catch all the pollen. then just brush it on sum pistles and u got ur seeds for next time. if its worth growing this strain.

anyone know how this stuff smokes?

i just harvested a lowryder dwarf mix. i grew a male next to her cuz i wanted alot of beans. she yielded like 1/4 and 100 + beans


----------



## Roseman (May 20, 2009)

Where is Growthspurt???


----------



## growthspurt (May 23, 2009)

Hey guys.. im back... was going through those issues with my plant so i didnt feel like posting an updates cause i was just hoping she would get through. I had those issues with the roots, with large bubbly sacks on them. I took the lid off and turned on my tub faucet and proceeded to separate each root from eachother one by one. At the same time removing any gooey substance I felt. All this time im running it through the falling water from the faucet. I purchased distilled water from wally world and measured the nutes to the gram then put it in and let it sit. Everyday I had to check cause dead roots kept falling off so i use my fish net scooper and picked them out. Anyways 1 week went by and I would like to say she looks very good. Ive included some pics below for your viewing pleasure.... Please let me know what you think!!






















My friend loaned me that led light you see there, ive just been moving it around the plant everyday. I have another set comming in from SH of the dual spec II's.. should be in soon.. so that will help.


----------



## Roseman (May 23, 2009)

Applause, Applause!!!!

Beautiful!!!!


----------



## growthspurt (May 23, 2009)

well she was the LAst remaining survivor... so since that day it was like  the whooooleeee time.. making sure she stayed healthy. She had the most caring personal doctor..lol!


----------



## growthspurt (May 27, 2009)

May 27th 2009 8 week update.. almost there!!!

Well i come to you this wonderful wednesday morning to bring you some picture updates for my white dwarf lady. Ive allready started two other white dwarfs that you can see in one of the pics. For my next grow in my main system i really want to go non-autoflower but one thing at a time..lol. Anyways If you noticed i really dont update anymore with details since ive found that its most intricate in the first couple weeks. Other than that you can just assume i maintain a healthy PH and make sure when I add water that it has the proper measured nutes in it for 1 gallon. Hmmm what else.. oh.. as you can see in one of the pics i got more lights.. now i have two SH dual spec II lighting kits and 3 extra 2700k bulbs from homedepot... I also make sure that I empty and refill my res's EVERY week....oh and once a week raise your lights..(which that one i admit i forget sometimes..lol) But without further ado.. my pics...



































enjoy!!! let me know what you think.. also if anyone knows based on how they look.. they are in their 8th week.. should i stop the nutrients now? I just assumed they were going to go longer than 8 weeks so i didnt plan on flushing yet.. how long from the way they look now do you think they have to go? TY in advance!!!


----------



## Roseman (May 27, 2009)

Wow!






and to think you once doubted yourself *!!!*

Get a jeweler's viewer, or 

Major Tom says Save your money and get a eye loop they use for looking at 35mm slides for cheap





or
 $13 at Radio Shack get a lighted microscope





*Trichome Chart, When to Harvest* 
permalink








of couse someone that likes to argue, will argue with this post.


----------



## growthspurt (May 27, 2009)

Well let them argue.. cause Ive been listening to you since the beginning and i have no complaints.... ill go this afternoon and pick one of them bad boys up..lol


----------



## growthspurt (May 27, 2009)

Roseman said:


> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yo for real, but that juts proves once again that you can learn anything you set your mind to... knowledge is the key to everything!!


----------



## MostlyCrazy (May 27, 2009)

Roseman is right (duh!) To me they look like they have some filing out to do but I don't know that strain. What does the seed provider say? 8 weeks? I start checking when some of the hairs turn colors and watch them like a hawk from then on. Then it's just a matter of what type of high you are looking for. Mostly clear - not ready, Half clear/half cloudy - head high but not strong, all cloudy - head high - strong, 30-40% cloudy, a few clear and the rest some form of amber - Cut it - it's done and at max power! Everyone does that part a little different. My LSD/BC grow is in about the same stage as yours. Are the buds sticky yet? I'm going for one more week of full nutes and then water only and a little rough up to help them finish strong and sweet. On the first grow I was told to wait until you think they are done and then wait one more week but that was before I have a microscope. That's almost fool proof! Let us know what you see!


----------



## GrimReefa (May 27, 2009)

i would go with rsoeman at all times, never harvest after 8 weeks 7 weeks, or when u think the buds look good its all about the trichomes mate, and uve done a superb job, growing very quik


----------



## chunkymunkey33 (May 27, 2009)

Awesome job growth. I have one of those mini microscopes from Radio Shack and I like it. I also have a couple of eye loupes too but they don't have as much magnification as the mic.


----------



## (Butters) (May 27, 2009)

Isn't she lovely! Looks like the best one made it for you. She looks huge too. Nice and bushy. Can't wait to see how much you pull off of her. I'd be curious to see what lollipopping would do to that strain. All that horizontal growth focused on that main cola could produce some serious bud judging by her size. Well freakin done!
How much water is she drinking each day? Or more to the point, how many plants of that strain do you think you could grow seed-->harvest in that rez (8 gallons if I remember). I imagine her root mass must be pretty impressive at this point and wasn't sure if you felt that you could carry a full 6 plants in there without having them suck the rez dry. I'm groing an autoflowering strain myself and made the mistake of putting her in about a 2.5 gallon rez (figuring she'd be small so wouldn't need too much water). She drinks all 2.5 gallons each day and appears to be very similar in size to yours so I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

Looks like your just a couple of weeks away but I agree that the trich's will dictate this to you. I have that radioshack scope and have found it to be very effective. Best of luck.


----------



## Leilani Garden (May 30, 2009)

Very, very nice! Pretty flowers you've got there.

I have one of those radio shack microscopes and I have had a devil of a time getting it to work. I do need reading glasses, though, so maybe that's it. Dunno.

Wishing you all the best with these!


----------



## Roseman (May 30, 2009)

Leilani Garden said:


> Very, very nice! Pretty flowers you've got there.
> 
> I have one of those radio shack microscopes and I have had a devil of a time getting it to work. I do need reading glasses, though, so maybe that's it. Dunno.
> 
> Wishing you all the best with these!


It is sort of like looking through binoculars, you have to "get the hang of it."

Cut a 1/4 to 1/2 inch tip of a leaf off that is growing from a bud, and lay that leaf tip on a white plate, TRICHOME SIDE UP. STRADDLE the leaf with the microscope, and move it around and find an edge of the leaf, then focus.


----------



## Ceebus (Jun 4, 2009)

Tell me how you like the smoke, I have a White Dwarf nearing its end and I cut a small bud off the bottom and it was 1 hit smoke.


----------



## TONYJEJO (Jun 4, 2009)

bro 1 x250watt HPS would give you 10xbigger dwarfs!!!


----------



## peteman990 (Jun 14, 2009)

learningtogrow said:


> dude your set up is off the hook..... your using cereal boxes, cds and a belt to hang your lights from... mad props haha
> 
> 
> cant go wrong with the flintstones


HAHAHA. Man that shit was funny, I was just thinking what's with that belt. Looks like its workin for ya though, props. I'm interested in how your grow turns out, im using bubbleponics and got another auto-flowering strain (Slow Rider from nirvana) bout to sprout her true colors. Keep it up, that extra light make a big difference for ya? I have the multi-spec lights but I am thinking about getting a few more side lights. Good luck bro


----------



## rabidcow (Jun 14, 2009)

guess u gave up on this thred growthspurt............ if not let us know the final verdict. i have WD fem seeds. i am in week 3 and mine are way behind yours...... the difference hasto be that set up. curious how you feel about it, and what the dimenions of it are? 
hope u did well


----------



## growthspurt (Jun 19, 2009)

Hey sorry guys for being away... lots of crazy stuff going on in my life.. good thing I had this grow to keep my head "high"  It finished at the perfect time for me. I got about 38g from it all and that is with most of the stems out. I have them curing in three, well at the time of writing this.. two.. mason jars (I couldnt wait to have some after drying ..lol). I still have about 29g left and they are finishing their first week curing. It is a VERY head high..but the only tested buds were ones from the lower end branches.. so i suppose the more mature ones will have more a mixture between both. When the others cure and I try them ill report the differences.


----------



## harper2002 (Jun 23, 2009)

Hi, just wondering if the hair on the buds MUST be reddish before harvesting as the trics are milky and some are amber. Im growing white dwarf.


----------



## oasis515 (Jul 16, 2009)

harper2002 said:


> hi, just wondering if the hair on the buds must be reddish before harvesting as the trics are milky and some are amber. Im growing white dwarf.


 

harvest now


----------



## Roseman (Jul 16, 2009)

Where is growthspurt?


----------



## hempernest (Jul 25, 2009)

Hi growthspurt, just a question, wich colour was the seedpack you used? how many seeds in it? is the first time i hear about sex problems with white dwarf


----------



## Roseman (Jul 27, 2009)

GrowthSpurt has not been here in July?????


----------



## Atea (Jul 27, 2009)

Hey mate!

Wanted to say that a nice looking grow you have there

Sorry about the males,better luck next time 

Ill be watching


----------



## Roseman (Jul 27, 2009)

Atea said:


> Hey mate!
> 
> Wanted to say that a nice looking grow you have there
> 
> ...


he is gone, GrowthSpurt has not been here in July?????


----------



## growthspurt (Jul 30, 2009)

Roseman said:


> he is gone, GrowthSpurt has not been here in July?????



i was here.. it lies..!!! lol anyways it was in a blue plastic thing... i dont know what was up but i have moved on to black jack sativa and a random bag seed


----------



## Roseman (Jul 31, 2009)

growthspurt, where ya been?


----------



## growthspurt (Aug 4, 2009)

Just been soo busy with work, and bills and dealing with the "system" always trying to tax and charge for whatever they can... so anyways im growing some blackjack right now, decided on no journal since I def didnt want to start something I knew i wasnt gonna finish (the journal that is) But I will pop around occasionally hopefully more often than not, to offer my help, my input and my pics!!!


----------



## growthspurt (Aug 19, 2009)

IN case anyone is still subscribed to this.. i havent made a new journal but this is where im at with my current grow... BLACKJACK SATIVA and UNKnown bagseed (most likly indica) click link below

https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/220083-bubblehead-gang-30.html#post2934617


----------



## stinkbudd1 (Aug 19, 2009)

hey thanx for the great info just what i needed look im starting asmall grow of 3 auto white russian my grow box is 2x2x3 with 3 intake holes in the bottem 3 1/2 " each with a exaust at the top of box same side @ 6" with exaust fan 150cfm i have 2 6" oscilating fans inside the box and im running a 250 watt mh lighting system will this system be ok or not for maximum grow with lowryders. thanx, stink man


----------



## Roseman (Aug 20, 2009)

growthspurt, 
have you started the sativa grow yet? I want to watch that one close! Sure Takes some balls to grow Sativa indoors.


----------



## growthspurt (Aug 23, 2009)

Roseman said:


> growthspurt,
> have you started the sativa grow yet? I want to watch that one close! Sure Takes some balls to grow Sativa indoors.


Well from your last analyasis seems like im not growing the sativa I thought i was.. well hopfully the other bagseed stain is some bad ass sativa that i didnt know about..lol


----------



## Roseman (Aug 24, 2009)

growthspurt said:


> Well from your last analyasis seems like im not growing the sativa I thought i was.. well hopfully the other bagseed stain is some bad ass sativa that i didnt know about..lol


BubbleHead Brother,
it will still be the best pot you ever smoked!!


----------



## GrimReefa (Aug 31, 2009)

so u finsihed that plant yet,??


----------



## mskay (Nov 1, 2009)

I bought auto flowering fem seeds from dope-seeds and this is my first batch. Looks like i got 3 males and 1 female. say it ain't so! The quality of the pictures sucks but I hope someone can help.


----------



## thedoctorzoidberg (Nov 3, 2009)

mskay said:


> I bought auto flowering fem seeds from dope-seeds and this is my first batch. Looks like i got 3 males and 1 female. say it ain't so! The quality of the pictures sucks but I hope someone can help.


your right.


----------



## growthspurt (Jan 21, 2010)

If your going autoflower the best advice is to go with autoflower feminized so you dont waste any. Especially if you dont plan for your first grow to go all males and make tons of seeds. If you dont and just want to grow them its best to just get fem and save yourself the headache.


----------



## spontcumb (Jan 22, 2010)

After having grown several "lots" of autoflowering strains, I think that's the direction I'm going in. I've found the quality/potency of some strains to be as good, if not better that many "regular" strains I've grown in the past. I love the shortened time involved, which translates into my spending less on the street for "Questionable" quality. I can have a truly Perpetual Grow on my hands. There are some wonderful auto strains available. So in my particular case.....it's pretty much a no brainer. Any suggestions for some seriously above average strains? Easy Ryder has proven to be incredibly impressive! 

 

Jeff


----------



## growthspurt (Jan 22, 2010)

spontcumb said:


> After having grown several "lots" of autoflowering strains, I think that's the direction I'm going in. I've found the quality/potency of some strains to be as good, if not better that many "regular" strains I've grown in the past. I love the shortened time involved, which translates into my spending less on the street for "Questionable" quality. I can have a truly Perpetual Grow on my hands. There are some wonderful auto strains available. So in my particular case.....it's pretty much a no brainer. Any suggestions for some seriously above average strains? Easy Ryder has proven to be incredibly impressive!
> 
> 
> 
> Jeff



Awesome information man!! I just ordered 7 - auto AK47 and 3- auto Pakistan ryders that I will be doing on my next grow. How much did the easy Ryder yield per plant? What was the highest yielding auto-flower you have grown? I heard that AK47 has some large potent yields.. have you grown it?


----------



## Melizzard (Jan 29, 2010)

growthspurt said:


> ...or for organic freaks, just plant into organic soil mix with bat guano mixed in... and put away the calculator... .


OK, so I'm using Foxfarms Happy Frog soil and have a 3-week old and a 1-week old in it. I also have Grow Big, Big Bloom, and Tiger Bloom. According to FF feeding schedule, you use all three during the flowering stage. The trouble w/my 3-week old is that it lost about a week of growth because I almost lost it. It has not shown sex yet. But for some reason, the LR2s take longer for me, in CO, than they do the people on this board. 

So, do I wait till it shows sex to start bloom nutes and just give grow nutes until then? Oh yeah, and I'm growing in soil not hydro.

xxoo
Melissa


----------



## diegotemdp (Jan 30, 2010)

nice ones! my grow is not as pro lol but i m in argentina and its different down here. if u can plz advice https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/298026-red-dwarf-auto-x2-lemon.html
cheers!


----------



## kevy64 (Jan 30, 2010)

i have 7 lowryders growing right and am not sure how to tell the male from females right now they have been growing for about 3 weeks now any help would be appreciated


diegotemdp said:


> nice ones! my grow is not as pro lol but i m in argentina and its different down here. if u can plz advice https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/298026-red-dwarf-auto-x2-lemon.html
> cheers!


----------



## damargentina (Jan 30, 2010)

hey the pic's definition is not the best... when i buy i buy feminized,,, sure bet. but, there is hope... the calixes are sometimes soooooo big they can be mistaken for balls. it happened to me (check out https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/298018-big-bang-bagseed-grow-400-a.html and comment if you like). i was real sad and plucked the balls thinkin it was a hermafrodite but they are 100% ladies!


----------



## cappeeler09 (Jan 30, 2010)

good stuff bro 
check out my cheese journal and tell me wot u think...just added some good pictures of my buds on the last page
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/277194-cheese-journal-2nd-grow.html


----------



## kevy64 (Jan 31, 2010)

does the color of the stem have anything to do with it . i had some start out a red color and some a green color on the stalk.


----------



## secretforestgarden (Feb 14, 2010)

kevy64 said:


> does the color of the stem have anything to do with it . i had some start out a red color and some a green color on the stalk.


I'm pretty sure stem color is more indicative of either nitrogen levels (normal or deficient) or genetics (i.e. different strains, or even different phenotypes within a given strain).


----------



## growthspurt (Feb 17, 2010)

Melizzard said:


> OK, so I'm using Foxfarms Happy Frog soil and have a 3-week old and a 1-week old in it. I also have Grow Big, Big Bloom, and Tiger Bloom. According to FF feeding schedule, you use all three during the flowering stage. The trouble w/my 3-week old is that it lost about a week of growth because I almost lost it. It has not shown sex yet. But for some reason, the LR2s take longer for me, in CO, than they do the people on this board.
> 
> So, do I wait till it shows sex to start bloom nutes and just give grow nutes until then? Oh yeah, and I'm growing in soil not hydro.
> 
> ...


I would wait to put the bloom but sorry for responding so late.. i have a new journal and I havent checked in here since!!


----------



## growthspurt (Feb 17, 2010)

kevy64 said:


> i have 7 lowryders growing right and am not sure how to tell the male from females right now they have been growing for about 3 weeks now any help would be appreciated



At three weeks they may be showing sex.. I just used this reference in the beginning.








Also with auto flower its ALWAYS best to just get feminized as the yield is not that large from each plant so you want as many as you can fit.


----------



## growthspurt (Feb 17, 2010)

damargentina said:


> hey the pic's definition is not the best... when i buy i buy feminized,,, sure bet. but, there is hope... the calixes are sometimes soooooo big they can be mistaken for balls. it happened to me (check out https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/298018-big-bang-bagseed-grow-400-a.html and comment if you like). i was real sad and plucked the balls thinkin it was a hermafrodite but they are 100% ladies!



I def agree with buying fem.. it just makes sense to me unless I was going to breed them


----------



## growthspurt (Feb 17, 2010)

cappeeler09 said:


> good stuff bro
> check out my cheese journal and tell me wot u think...just added some good pictures of my buds on the last page
> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/277194-cheese-journal-2nd-grow.html



Just visited your grow man, looks like you did pretty well, just about 15 oz is niiiiice Let me know if you start another! Check my current AK-47 if you have time.


----------



## growthspurt (Feb 17, 2010)

kevy64 said:


> does the color of the stem have anything to do with it . i had some start out a red color and some a green color on the stalk.



The color will not have any play in if its a male or female. Just check the picture and compare.


----------



## growthspurt (Feb 17, 2010)

secretforestgarden said:


> I'm pretty sure stem color is more indicative of either nitrogen levels (normal or deficient) or genetics (i.e. different strains, or even different phenotypes within a given strain).



I would agree with that. There could be more or less but its def not about male or female.


----------



## growthspurt (Feb 17, 2010)

PLEASE VISIT MY CURRENT JOURNAL, IT IS AUTOFLOWER TOO SO PLEASE POST QUESTIONS THERE CLICK!!


----------



## growthspurt (Feb 17, 2010)

growthspurt said:


> Hey sorry guys for being away... lots of crazy stuff going on in my life.. good thing I had this grow to keep my head "high"  It finished at the perfect time for me. I got about 38g from it all and that is with most of the stems out. I have them curing in three, well at the time of writing this.. two.. mason jars (I couldnt wait to have some after drying ..lol). I still have about 29g left and they are finishing their first week curing. It is a VERY head high..but the only tested buds were ones from the lower end branches.. so i suppose the more mature ones will have more a mixture between both. When the others cure and I try them ill report the differences.



Since i never got around to posting the pics of the white dwarf after cutting here they are. (I cut down early cause it was appearing to get sick.. plus it was my first grow.. who doesn't cut early on their first grow??!?!? lol)

















ENJOY AND NOW CHECK MY NEW GROW in my sig.


----------



## kevy64 (Mar 6, 2010)

well thanks for the info guy`s i bought 30 seeds germinated 10 lost 3 ended with 7 females, but htey have been growing for about 6 weeks now and not much real budding happening,am i doing something wrong. i have them under a 360 watt hps conversion bulb now but started with floresents then an metal hilate.they are on 14/10 now.


----------



## super2200 (Mar 6, 2010)

How is the smoke? I just harvested some Lowryder 2 but the smoke isnt all that. I was looking at the Red and the White's from Buhdda and havnt seen smoke reports.


----------



## skinnbonez37 (Mar 27, 2010)

Just an FYI for future grows. Sometimes when your buds are getting near full maturity and are ready to be harvested. I believe the fan leaves as well as other leaves will begin to yellow and die, but not harm the bud at all. It's just a part of the process sometimes.


----------



## colliegirl420 (Apr 11, 2010)

When did you start feeding it?? I just recently started a couple dwarf lowryder#2xak47 and i know the process is super fast so do you exactly know what week to feed it?


----------



## lukecassette (Feb 14, 2012)

gardenman said:


> wow i'm glad someone finally told him. i just looked at thread and thought to myself.. fem seeds? Definately male. Dont be in a hurry to kill the male.. why not make your own seeds of that stuff so you wont have to buy anymore seeds? Just a thought. Happy growing ;]


I know seriously! why is everyone being so dramatic. unless you have a bunch of males in a tiny area with a bunch of females, like literally ontop of eachother and constant air blowing the pollen all over the females your buds are not going to "explode with seeds" put the male aside if you are worried and collect the pollen and make some new crosses! you can apply the pollen too the lower areas with a paint brush or specific branches and just those areas will develop seeds. To be honest i have had problems TRYING to get a plant to be all covered with seeds, so its not going to happen just because your plants are near 1 male. a few stray seeds? sure maybee. but so what. its not going to make you gay or anything smoking bud that has seeds that came from a hermie or a male, and you really wont notice a difference in the quality of the bud, it will be just as good. actually it will be better because you wont have to ever buy seeds again and trust me, you will get really into it.


----------

