# Do Not Vote For Legalization Or You Are Stupid



## Resinator420 (Nov 2, 2009)

If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.

Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.

Marijuana creates one of the biggest unregulated markets in the country with some 55MILLION people involved including people liek me and you. In a sense marijuana feuls america everyday. what do marijuana dealers do with the money they make???? THEY BUY SHIT, RANDOM SHIT CARS, BOATS, HOUSES, STOCKS, INVESTMENT, AND EVERYDAY THINGS FOOD, CLOTHS, GAS, HEALTH CARE PRODUCTS!! take this money, or market away from america and I think 60% of businesses would SIVEARLY suffer or all together shutdown. Alot of people would go crazy.

Decriminalization is a drastically different approach. If it were ever to happen, then think about it "all the users of your site could continue what they do everyday" the US continues to flourish like it does today except on average 185,000 people every year would be spared from jail, and we would save enough money from not having to house, feed, and jail these "criminals" (pot smokers, sellers) to bring our country out of this recession. Not to mention the millions we would save every year going after "weed criminals"

There would be millions and billions of dollars to spair for our coutry to use for valuable resources such as healthcare, military, and police for the REAL DRUGS cocaine, heroin, ect.

SO VOTE FOR DECRIMINALIZATION


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## whiterhyno420 (Nov 2, 2009)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ crazy if i could vote ill vote to legalize it


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## Resinator420 (Nov 2, 2009)

Cool nice redfish by the way.


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## Philo2 (Nov 2, 2009)

> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.


Like Dude, I totally believe that.


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## Resinator420 (Nov 2, 2009)

I suggest a movie called the union if your really into the subject like me its awsome and itll make understand why im trying soo hard to convince people why im soooo for the decrim..


Your a smart man philo2


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## dirtnap411 (Nov 2, 2009)

Resinator420 said:


> I suggest a movie called the union if your really into the subject like me its awsome and itll make understand why im trying soo hard to convince people why im soooo for the decrim..
> 
> 
> Your a smart man philo2


 Why post the exact same thread in two places? Also, get Firefox, you could use the built in spell check. There are 3 decrim bills up in the next election here in Cali, I'll be voting yes to all 3.


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## Philo2 (Nov 2, 2009)

I can't see how voting for freedom can ever be considered stupid.


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## racerboy71 (Nov 2, 2009)

nice.. i only wish that the rest of the us would be more like cali, but we all know that it isn't.. can you see some of the bible belt states decriminalizing marijuana? i don't live in the south, thank god, lol.. but i think it will be a long time before some of these peoples roll out of the 20th century, let alone to the 21st.. we can all wish that the silly war on drugs will be over some day soon, and do our part when and where we get the chance to do so like those that are fortunate enough to live in a state such as Cali...
it really is a put off to think about some of our countries draconian drug laws...
oh yeah.. what about the spell check right there in the corner of the box that we are typing in? who needs firefox.. lol...


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## Brody.Will.Grow.Thee (Nov 2, 2009)

we should not legalize it, then have everyone who smokes be open and casual about it. they cant arrest all of us!!


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## whiterhyno420 (Nov 2, 2009)

dirtnap411 said:


> Why post the exact same thread in two places? Also, get Firefox, you could use the built in spell check. There are 3 decrim bills up in the next election here in Cali, I'll be voting yes to all 3.


ha ha lol and he had the nerve to call me dumb lol he spells like a 6th grader


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## IAm5toned (Nov 2, 2009)

racerboy71 said:


> nice.. i only wish that the rest of the us would be more like cali, but we all know that it isn't.. can you see some of the bible belt states decriminalizing marijuana? i don't live in the south, thank god, lol.. but i think it will be a long time before some of these peoples roll out of the 20th century, let alone to the 21st.. we can all wish that the silly war on drugs will be over some day soon, and do our part when and where we get the chance to do so like those that are fortunate enough to live in a state such as Cali...
> it really is a put off to think about some of our countries draconian drug laws...
> oh yeah.. what about the spell check right there in the corner of the box that we are typing in? who needs firefox.. lol...


i live in the south, and it sux


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## Wordz (Nov 2, 2009)

Resinator420 said:


> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.


you're so so so so so so wrong about that stat. I say vote to legalize maybe 80% of your money comes from pot but I still gotta work to make ends meet . if I go to jail them I'll be fucked so yes you need to vote to legalize if you got the chance just to keep me out of jail


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## dontexist21 (Nov 3, 2009)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...


Everything that you say about legalization of marijuana is false. Legalization of marijuana will actually lead to MORE jobs AND less people being thrown in jail. In your argument, which I find ill informed, you state that 90% of money created in the United States comes from the marijuana industry. This is wrong, there is no way that this could be true since most of our economy in some way shape and form is actually fueled by the major corporations. Unless Ford is creating cars that run on hemp, there is no way that this company is profiting from the sale of marijuana to support these claims. 

If you imagine a small town in America, one which has mostly American made cars you will see that 99% of those people do not acquire their income from the Black Market. This hypothetical town can be seen as a representation for the rest of America in terms of what they buy and where the money goes to and circulates in the rest of the economy. Now take your drug dealers in the economy, some of them might acquire their product by growing it themselves. While this might be a few people, it will be a minority of people. Most of the dealers will acquire their product from a larger distributer. This weed will most likely come from Mexican drug cartels, or some other gang affiliated entity. Most of the time the money that they acquire does not go back in the economy, it usually get stashed away, where it will later be used to fund other CRIMINAL enterprises. 

If you legalize weed, you will allow for job creation through means of creating places such as coffee shops where weed can be purchased, creating a industry for hemp, allowing breeders to be open about their trade. Other side business will also be created, shops which only sell awesome baked cannafood. What makes you think that these people who would sell weed would not put the money back into the economy. Most of these people have kids, homes, cars, and all of the other things that normal people have and want. They will also be able to be more open about their income, which means that would be able to buy what ever they want without giving the DEA a reason to throw them in jail. Decriminalization does not allow for ANY of these things. It means that people can have a small amount for personal use, but they will STILL GET ARRESTED FOR SELLING AND GROWING. Which still assures that people are getting sent to jail over a plant. Legalization basically means that I have the right to do what I want with the plant, and NO ONE can tell me other wise. 

Even Amsterdam is having problems with their policies where you can sell it, but it is still illegal to grow it. Which is counterintuitive since that means that black market still has control over the industry. This keeps prices up since you are still taking a risk in selling the product. I do not understand why you would be for decriminalization, you would still be able to get arrested for weed, if it is above a certain amount. 

Calling people stupid when you do not understand the issue your self makes you seem ignorant. I have seen The Union, read on this issue, and have debated many times with people on it. The Union was created to explain the on the Black Market marijuana industry is run, no where in documentary did it ever state that America was run on weed. You must have been to high to actually understand it.


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## tip top toker (Nov 3, 2009)

warped logic at best.

i think i and the couple of other people i know of, would prefere to get their own green, and spend the money for themselves in shops, on cars, etc etc, than give it to a dealer so he can buy that stuff.

growing for me, it is mainly so that i have more money freed up to spend on whatever, means i can walk into the local small dellicatessans and buy what i'd like, without being cheap, i can put money back into the local businesses instead of into the pocket of some pikey dealer in the slums who is not spending it on local shops, cars, etc etc, no he's spending it on even more dope so he can get an even bigger client base and become bigger and better, and then he'll spend it all on a holliday due to not being able to launder it easily blah blah.

i'd much rather see the people growing themselves (something that would be near unstoppable if it were legalized) and putting their money back into the comunity, shops, family and friends etc, than handing it all over to one guy who is sleazy and such from the get go


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## Philouza (Nov 3, 2009)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...


your lights are too far away


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## CrackerJax (Nov 3, 2009)

80% of all business in the US gets money from weed. 

Who told you that nonsense?

Perhaps what's really upsetting you is the fact that if weed gets legalized, the money will drop out for todays dealers. 

You might have to get a job!!!


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## smppro (Nov 3, 2009)

Jesus you little spam whore


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## smokermore (Nov 3, 2009)

IAm5toned said:


> i live in the south, and it sux


me 2...i want to gtfo of texas


I would vote for legalize, so i dont have to hide it from 75% of the people i kno, and dont have to be paranoid about it


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## Dan Kone (Nov 3, 2009)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???


Yeah, I think I can. Guess I'll find out


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## Wordz (Nov 3, 2009)

I wonder if paranoia goes away when it gets legalized


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## tip top toker (Nov 3, 2009)

haha, that's an interesting one actually. all my paranoia revolves around the police, nothing else really.


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## Wordz (Nov 3, 2009)

tip top toker said:


> haha, that's an interesting one actually. all my paranoia revolves around the police, nothing else really.


I know mine too I've never been like 'oh shit a fireman is gonna bust through my door and break my bongs"


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## Imlovinit (Nov 3, 2009)

Somehow I doubt that mass produced pot will hold a candle to anything home grown. Unless maybe American Spirit starts selling joints. I wouldn't be surprised if 80% of the income came from illegal sources but no way it's all from pot. Last but not least Post 420! Time to smoke!


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## CrackerJax (Nov 3, 2009)

You can doubt all you want to, but once Big AG and them ol farmers get a hold of weed..... step back.

They'll show you how it's done.... count on that.


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## dontexist21 (Nov 3, 2009)

Weed is going to be $5 a gram, i think thats the point where a lot of people decide growing is no longer worth it, if it is not out doors. If weed is legal, I am moving to the south and growing 9 trees a year, getting 1-3 pounds a tree. I think 9lbs would satisfy me for a year.


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## Dan Kone (Nov 3, 2009)

dontexist21 said:


> Weed is going to be $5 a gram, i think thats the point where a lot of people decide growing is no longer worth it, if it is not out doors.



That's about 2500 a pound. Still worth it but only if you grow in proper quantities.


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## dontexist21 (Nov 3, 2009)

Dan Kone said:


> That's about 2500 a pound. Still worth it but only if you grow in proper quantities.


I would never sell, just grow for myself and a few friends. I will leave big canna business up to the guy that has acres of land. Think about it one guy growing on just a few acres. Production would be ridiculous. You already have guys able to turn out 10 lb plants. If it was legal you would have a ton of those plants spread across hundreds of acres and in greenhouses. I bet you would have guys able to produce a lb for $100-700 depending on the quality of the herb.


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## Resinator420 (Nov 3, 2009)

Its a great conversation. Administrators, yourwelcome for skyrocketing your users interest for the two days. 

 Thanks For Everyones Input, even you people that dont make any sense.

Im Gonna End This By Saying That All Of Those Who Disagreed With My Information "Just Think Long And Hard About What It Is That You Really Want, Do Some Research And Then See If Your Desicion Changes"


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## Dan Kone (Nov 4, 2009)

dontexist21 said:


> I would never sell, just grow for myself and a few friends. I will leave big canna business up to the guy that has acres of land. Think about it one guy growing on just a few acres. Production would be ridiculous. You already have guys able to turn out 10 lb plants. If it was legal you would have a ton of those plants spread across hundreds of acres and in greenhouses.


I have no problem with that. 



dontexist21 said:


> I bet you would have guys able to produce a lb for $100-700 depending on the quality of the herb.


I do that now. Quality too. the lowest any of my outdoor went for was $3200/lb this year. Gimme a field and I'll do even better


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## That 5hit (Nov 4, 2009)

when weed is 100% legal 
how much would a 1oz bag of weed cost of high grade bud
right now i pay 400$ 
would it get cheaper OTC


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## Dan Kone (Nov 4, 2009)

That 5hit said:


> when weed is 100% legal
> how much would a 1oz bag of weed cost of high grade bud
> right now i pay 400$
> would it get cheaper OTC


Well you're paying too much just FYI. AAA grade shouldn't cost 50 an 1/8 if you're buying by the z.

Probably $150 + $50 tax, so around $200. I would offer that deal tomorrow if it were made legal. Shit I give it to the clubs at $200-225/oz now, they then sell it for 50-65 per 1/8. That's a 100% markup right there. That kind of markup doesn't happen with 100% legal products. 

Getting $150 a z still gives plenty of profit to the grower and considering the reduced risk, I doubt a lot of people would complain.


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## DubRules (Nov 4, 2009)

im with you.
so many things we take for granted in today's stoner culture would disappear with legalization.
decriminalization is the way for us,


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## humble learner (Nov 4, 2009)

wow, thread starter you have no idea what you're talking about or how dumb you look for posting this. So you don't want weed to be legal so you can still make a profit peddling your weed to people? Fucking pathetic, if weed was legalized as medicine it'd be distributed through a pharmacy not a gas station. Wow, fucking wow.


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## smppro (Nov 4, 2009)

Resinator420 said:


> Its a great conversation. Administrators, yourwelcome for skyrocketing your users interest for the two days.
> 
> Thanks For Everyones Input, even you people that dont make any sense.
> 
> Im Gonna End This By Saying That All Of Those Who Disagreed With My Information "Just Think Long And Hard About What It Is That You Really Want, Do Some Research And Then See If Your Decision Changes"


 Seriously, what are you smoking? I think the only think the admins are concerned with is you making multiple post of the same thing, re-educate yourself.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 4, 2009)

Yes, the number one site for weed forums needs his help....


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## dontexist21 (Nov 4, 2009)

DubRules said:


> im with you.
> so many things we take for granted in today's stoner culture would disappear with legalization.
> decriminalization is the way for us,


What "culture" you mean the one which has to hide in our homes, and get harassed by the cops. Don't forget getting fired for have a plant. I have responsibilities and rather not have a plant ruin my life, does not seem that you do.


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## JimmyPot (Nov 4, 2009)

Resinator420 said:


> and thats why your stupid, and thats also why it'l never happen


Your the one that is stupid and must be a dealer.I always have dealers tell me they don't want it to be legal because they won't be able to charge 400 a oz anymore.F the greed and F you for being a greedy punk.


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## JimmyPot (Nov 4, 2009)

DubRules said:


> im with you.
> so many things we take for granted in today's stoner culture would disappear with legalization.
> decriminalization is the way for us,


The only thing I see disappearing is it being a bitch to find.If anything more events and things to do would arise.I don't think beer being legal took anything away from it except sneaking around.


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## d r0cK (Nov 4, 2009)

I don't care what you say but to each his/her own. Given the current economical status in California we need to tax and regulate marijuana just as we do alcohol. Put the billions generated in underground revenue back into the system. 

You say the dealers spend money and create economy, which is true in a sense but lets be real, most dealers are only out for themselves and don't give a shit about anyone else. So their money is put into large corporations on material bullshit they don't need; oversized houses, multiple luxury cars etc..

TAX AND REGULATE it!!! Put the marijuana money back into the system so we can feed the less fortunate and take care of our kids. It will allow us to clean up our cities, get the fucking homeless off our streets and make things a little better all around. It's gonna create jobs, all of us potheads want to grow, it's gonna force police to go after the REAL criminals, the benefits are enormous. I have been spending close to $600 a month, imagine how many people there are who spend more than me. Instead of that $600 going to some punk's car payment, it can go to feeding someone or getting them off the streets or providing medical care for an a toddler with cancer.

Stem back and research why it was outlawed... because of money hungry evil wood and paper tycoons. Hemp is one of the most usefull plants on the planet. Legalize it! We can produce more wood, paper, and hemp rope than any tree could in its entire life time in a matter of years. This would open opportunities for new business, save trees and be better for the enviroment.

Remember, marijuana is not just for smoke when it comes to legality, you have to remember the resourcefullness of the plant, male and female alike!! Seems the original poster is just a pothead, and not actually out for the benefit of california, the US or the environment.

*EDIT*

I actually read through the entire thread now, and I have to say that the original poster is a fucking moron at his highest standing. Educate yourself, it's obvious you're just a punk drug dealer who has nothing going in his life.


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## remyaz0 (Nov 4, 2009)

the money that dealers make would just go to new dealers that are smart enough to get the required licenses and mass produce descent quality to the masses. And small time shops that have premium grade stuff like a good mini brewery would make money it would fuel the economy in several different ways. It would open a vast array of other products that currently cant be made due to the legal status of the cannabis plant. there are tons and tons of things hemp can be used for besides smoking from paper to fuel. stupid post a high school dealers idiocy shines thru small time thoughts for your small time greed. Legalization would help more things than you care to acknowledge i guess one can only hope that our government ends the prohibition of cannabis


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## Louis541 (Nov 4, 2009)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...


And all those poor people could jump on the marijuana bandwagon. You think they are going to have huge farms of high grade bud? No. It's still gonna be a little guys buisiness. The best bud comes from people who love and care for there plants.
Not commercial farms.


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## 420passion (Nov 4, 2009)

*LEGALIZE IT!!! *For one it should be legal because people should be free to grow and or use it as it hurts no one in the process of doing so and people should not be told what the fuck to do with there own lives. Even if it was a financial matter which it isn't It would be corrupt and immoral, unfair and unjust to keep it illegal just for the sake of some greedy assholes. Our world monetary system is a huge fucking scam anyways but i wont even get in to that as it strays a bit from the subject (don't get me wrong i do believe in a fair economy that's not meant to enslave) My opinion is that if it where legal the market probably wouldn't change to much. If you had a clue about what goes into manufacturing this amazing product and what goes into running a good business you'd probably have a similar opinion. In my quest to become rich... when i figured out there was more important things then money. Like respect, honer, fairness, loyalty, determination, understanding...that's when it happend... focussing on all the unmaterialistic things is what finally brought me more wealth then what i could ever imagine prior to my shift in conciseness.


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## Punk (Nov 5, 2009)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...


Decrim is great, but it sounds like you probably have a good little cash crop going and you feel that may be threatened, and that all the people you charge full street price will go somewhere else and you'll have to get a real job.


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## constructionpig (Nov 5, 2009)

I'll vote to legalize it.


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## Dan Kone (Nov 6, 2009)

Punk said:


> Decrim is great, but it sounds like you probably have a good little cash crop going and you feel that may be threatened, and that all the people you charge full street price will go somewhere else and you'll have to get a real job.


Why is growing weed not honest work?

I totally agree that people shouldn't let their own greed come before ending prohibition for EVERYONE, but don't knock people for growing for a living. (probably the wrong forums to be doing that)


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## maxamus1 (Nov 13, 2009)

i don't think the government will grow good smoke. 2nd- they will take over the pot industry and grow shwag and sell it for way more then it's worth. 3rd they will not let you grow your own. then if you bitch about it they will tell you to shut up at least it is legal. so go ahead and legalize it see what happens.


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## grow space (Nov 13, 2009)

Free the herb..!!!Thats all I have to say...


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## tip top toker (Nov 13, 2009)

just remember, if it were legalized, and taxed, why does EVERYONE asume that the results would therefore be the government growing it and noone else? like they do with tobacco, wine, spirits, beer etc?

like with most, i'd just like to see it decriminalised

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8358998.stm

"*Harry Potter actor Daniel Radcliffe has "categorically" denied newspaper allegations that he was photographed smoking cannabis"

*who the bajeeeezus cares if he got photographed smoking a joint! you should not feel so ashamed that you have to catagorically deny it, or for it to be sucha public no-no for him to have to deny like that, it should just be a smoke like any other smoke, hell, i smoke a ciggy at work now and then and that will get me frazzled, like very high! it amuses me as i know i'm completely in the clear.

either way people will continue to grow there own


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## micro.grower (Nov 13, 2009)

true people will still just grow their own... my grandparents used to make their own wine and beer... i asked them why they didnt sell it... they said because selling it would be illegal, but they do have "beer and wine tasting" parties... everyone comes over and tries each others shit out... granted every sample i have ever tried of theirs is a 1000 times better than anything store bought, including jalapeno beer, they just dont have the title and tax liscenses to sell it... i see this is the way weed will be one day... you can by shitty store bought shit, or you can have the option to grow your own and consume it by yourself... or have "bud tasting" parties...lol... growers will grow because they love to grow... the only thing legalization will do is make it alot easier for growers to grow... imho, it wouldnt be a bad thing at all... i would grow all season long and possibly not have to grow for a couple of years depending on how much i yeild... but with outdoor, a person can grow alot... if we each had like a 10 plant limit that would be perfect for personal consumption... i dunno, i do live in the bible belt and it sux thinking i could lose everything for my lil micro grows... which is ridiculous.. i am obviously not growing to sell, but it is just as illegal as a 3 pound plant...


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 14, 2009)

Dan Kone said:


> Well you're paying too much just FYI. AAA grade shouldn't cost 50 an 1/8 if you're buying by the z.
> 
> Probably $150 + $50 tax, so around $200. I would offer that deal tomorrow if it were made legal. Shit I give it to the clubs at $200-225/oz now, they then sell it for 50-65 per 1/8. That's a 100% markup right there. That kind of markup doesn't happen with 100% legal products.
> 
> Getting $150 a z still gives plenty of profit to the grower and considering the reduced risk, I doubt a lot of people would complain.


 
First off, an OZ at $50 per 1/8th is $400 (50 x 8 = 400). If you sell to the clubs you might want to bring a calculator.

Secondly in CO a quarter bag of decent shit will cost you $120 to $130 at the dispensory. You can still get other stuff for as low as $80 per quarter, but don't expect it to be cured properly, you'll have to pay $120 minimum for anything that's worth anything. Unless you have a good caregiver who grows and can sell direct to you, but why would a grower want to run around & deliver bags when they can just make one trip to the dispensory every 2 months and sell everything they got?

Thirdly independent retailers always shoot for a 100% profit, it's called "Keystoning your money" in industry terms. Big chains will go as low as 41% (41% of retail price is profit) this is also called 41 points on the profit margin. Walgreens will go as low as 41% to give you an example of the size that the chain has to be to take a smaller profit, but Walgreens will only go that low on good selling stuff like Webkinz or that stupid robotic hamster that's selling like crazy right now. Wal-Mart produces their own gas, ships their own merchandise, and when possible they have their own products made by their own factories in Asia all to try to get their profit as high as possible, they're making as high as 75% on some of their merchandise that they make & ship themselves. I know all this because this was my chosen profession before a health problem caused me to retire.

Just wanted to correct some bad info being given out.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 15, 2009)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...


 
For a minute I couldn't tell if you were against legalization or not, then I realized that you're talking about legalization vs. decriminalization........ I think. Before I get to that I have to clear up some misinformation.

Currently it's not regulated in CO, but a politician is trying to "privatize" it so only one company can grow it and only pharmacies could sell it, and only if you have a prescription. I don't think we have to worry about seeing it in gas stations for a very long time. I don't think the politician is going to succeed (thank god) because the whole thing is still too contraversial. 

Also, if you're growing for quality then you're giving up yield. The plant has to use more energy to create trics & resin for the quality to increase. More energy for that means less energy for growth. So anyone that just grows for the biggest yeild will never have the best stuff. And any commercial grower with stockholders to answer to is going to grow for max yield.

If you looked at all the drugs being sold in the US, Marijuana wouldn't come close to being 80% of the total drugs. That 80% estimate of yours is just so far out of wack I don't know quiet what to say, but the ammount of money being spent at retail stores is likely to be closer to 8% than 80%.

The govt. will only regulate it if we allow them to. I mean they still haven't regulated credit cards. And even if they do regulate C/Cs (being done now) they're only regulating the retail end, not the end that the retailers deal with (bus banking end). So I don't know how you can assume that they're going to be successful in getting this regulated. That being said, I think that legal growers should definately start a union & get a lobbyist in WA to make sure it never gets regulated in a way that would cut out the smaller growers just in case.

As far as legalization vs decriminalization, the last thing this effort needs is confusion over semantics. Those 2 words mean the same thing to me, and if you look them up in the dictionary I'm sure they have almost identical meanings. 

It's this simple, when it's legalized it has to be done correctly or all the small growers will be left out in the cold, and with unemployment where it is, this would not be a good thing.

Don't let politicians get you bogged down in semantics everyone, it's been a real favorite of our politicians lately (enhanced interrogation techniques = torture, freedom fries = dam, the french were right again, I'm the decider = I'm not bipartisan, Flip Flopper = I'm looking for the most effective sound bite). 

I even spoke to someone the other day that spent 15 minutes explaining why Obama is like a nazi and then stated that he thinks all muslims should be rounded up and put into concentration camps. I'm not trying to be political, but that's a good example of how words seem to loose meaning with enough spinning & semantics, even a word like nazi. Don't let the politicians do it to us and this movement.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 15, 2009)

Resinator420 said:


> I suggest a movie called the union if your really into the subject like me its awsome and itll make understand why im trying soo hard to convince people why im soooo for the decrim..
> 
> 
> Your a smart man philo2


 
If you liked that movie you should check out Reefor Madness. lmao

An old time favorite of politicians, using movies to spread bad info. Put a rumor in a movie and it becomes fact to many people especially if you make a documentary. Think for yourself man, don't let someone else do your thinking for you.


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## Dan Kone (Nov 16, 2009)

DannyGreenEyes said:


> First off, an OZ at $50 per 1/8th is $400 (50 x 8 = 400). If you sell to the clubs you might want to bring a calculator.


That's exactly what I said. I think you misunderstood something there.



DannyGreenEyes said:


> Secondly in CO a quarter bag of decent shit will cost you $120 to $130 at the dispensory.


Sorry bro. Hopefully that changes for you once you guys get more dispensaries. 



DannyGreenEyes said:


> but why would a grower want to run around & deliver bags when they can just make one trip to the dispensory every 2 months and sell everything they got?


I agree. But it sounds like those clubs are making an insane profit.



DannyGreenEyes said:


> Thirdly independent retailers always shoot for a 100% profit,


If they are selling $120 quarters, they are most likely making more than 100% profit on those.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 16, 2009)

Dan Kone said:


> That's exactly what I said. I think you misunderstood something there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Darn, you know how to use this thing better than me, I'll have to learn how to do that. lol

Sorry, that first one was my bad, I'm still not use to people using the 1/8 measurements, I thought you had said $50 a 1/4.

There are plenty of dispensories and more are opening evey day, by more retail minded people. The better your stuff the more they'll pay. I won't know for 100% sure till my first harvest, but they're probably paying out around 60% to 65% on the $120-$130 stuff giving the retailer a 35% to 40% profit. They make 100% on anything they grow themselves of course, but they're limited to a certain number of plants too so they're always in need and often desperate for good stuff. If they run out of good stuff too often, they might stop seeing customers all together.

If I grow decent stuff (top grade but not super top grade) I can sell it for $60 to $65 a qtr to the dispensories (possibly as much as $85, but I like to be conservative when estimating income). The same stuff I could sell to a patient for $100, but they're always going to expect a discount not to mention samples & 24hr delivery & credit, etc.... It's just not worth it. And anything in public here is still illegal so selling in clubs wouldn't be smart. And I have to keep a copy of the license of everyone I sell to, another headache. The headaches just don't stop, so I'm just gonna take my $60 or $65 and be happy. That's still over $4k a lb. Licensed friends I'll make an acception for, but that's it.

On the markup, I don't think you understand. The owners of these dispensories have little to no experience with anything more than smoking the occasional doobie. These guys are strait up businessmen and to them a 100% profit is too good to be true. Do you honestly think that making 100% on your money in 24 hours in the stock market is considered an average day? 

They probably make more on the cheap stuff ($80 a qtr) but the better the stuff, the more demand they'll be for it, that's why they'll pay more. We went over this already, I don't want to repeat myself. But I worked for a Walgreens vendor, Wal-Mart vendor, and I had my own wholesale company for 7 years, you can trust me on what I'm saying. (I've also done research into this particular market)

Just trust me on this, when they legalize it for medicine, as long as it's not relulated improperly, it's good for the business community (owners), the people knowledgeable about the subject (or willing to learn) (growers), for the smoker, for the city, and even for good old uncle Sam. They know they're gonna get they're taxes cause it's still a fed charge. So last thing you want is a bunch of feds sniffing around about your taxes. lol


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## Dan Kone (Nov 16, 2009)

DannyGreenEyes said:


> Darn, you know how to use this thing better than me, I'll have to learn how to do that. lol


Clearly you aren't as big of a nerd as I am. You'll get there one day!



DannyGreenEyes said:


> I won't know for 100% sure till my first harvest, but they're probably paying out around 60% to 65% on the $120-$130 stuff giving the retailer a 35% to 40% profit. They make 100% on anything they grow themselves of course, but they're limited to a certain number of plants too so they're always in need and often desperate for good stuff. If they run out of good stuff too often, they might stop seeing customers all together.


Here they buy pounds for $2800-3600 (for the good stuff) and sell it for about 50-55 an 1/8. So they are basically doubling their money on every pound they buy. Nice work if you can get it!



DannyGreenEyes said:


> If I grow decent stuff (top grade but not super top grade) I can sell it for $60 to $65 a qtr to the dispensories (possibly as much as $85, but I like to be conservative when estimating income). The same stuff I could sell to a patient for $100, but they're always going to expect a discount not to mention samples & 24hr delivery & credit, etc.... It's just not worth it. And anything in public here is still illegal so selling in clubs wouldn't be smart. And I have to keep a copy of the license of everyone I sell to, another headache. The headaches just don't stop, so I'm just gonna take my $60 or $65 and be happy. That's still over $4k a lb. Licensed friends I'll make an acception for, but that's it.


Wow! I should go there! No one is getting 4k a pound up here anymore. 



DannyGreenEyes said:


> On the markup, I don't think you understand. The owners of these dispensories have little to no experience with anything more than smoking the occasional doobie. These guys are strait up businessmen and to them a 100% profit is too good to be true. Do you honestly think that making 100% on your money in 24 hours in the stock market is considered an average day?


Oh I understand. They are making serious bank. They had considerable risk before 2009. Now they are still raking it in, with little risk. 



DannyGreenEyes said:


> Just trust me on this, when they legalize it for medicine, as long as it's not relulated improperly, it's good for the business community (owners), the people knowledgeable about the subject (or willing to learn) (growers), for the smoker, for the city, and even for good old uncle Sam. They know they're gonna get they're taxes cause it's still a fed charge. So last thing you want is a bunch of feds sniffing around about your taxes. lol


Well said. I couldn't agree more.


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## micro.grower (Nov 17, 2009)

i think i will fall into the growers category... what about growing for yourself? i guess some people do have the opportunity to "legally" sell it, but i dunno.. i guess since i dont have that opportunity, i cant really get biased at all on the subject matter, but i know that if my state goes medicinal, i will sell for no one and smoke for myself every muh fuccin day... until maybe i could "legally" sell it...


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## Dan Kone (Nov 17, 2009)

micro.grower said:


> i think i will fall into the growers category... what about growing for yourself?


In the 2010 tax and regulate bill it is legal for anyone to grow a 5x5 tray.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 17, 2009)

Dan Kone said:


> Clearly you aren't as big of a nerd as I am. You'll get there one day!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One other thing I forgot to mention, the dispensories are getting more business than any dealer that I've ever known. When I picked up the clones from Very Best Medicine I was there for half an hour and all 3 of their counters were busy the whole time. If I had to guess at how much MJ they were moving I'd have to say no less than 10 lbs per day.

Hope that helps everything else make sense.

P.S. I'm kind of a nerd too, I just haven't had the time to learn this thing completely. Right now I'm trying to save 2 very sick AK47s, then I have to rearrange the room a little, then I have to get a humidifier, etc.... It never ends does it. lol


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 17, 2009)

micro.grower said:


> i think i will fall into the growers category... what about growing for yourself? i guess some people do have the opportunity to "legally" sell it, but i dunno.. i guess since i dont have that opportunity, i cant really get biased at all on the subject matter, but i know that if my state goes medicinal, i will sell for no one and smoke for myself every muh fuccin day... until maybe i could "legally" sell it...


 
I can't speak for other states, but in CO license holders are allowed to grow 6 plants unless they sign that right away. So anyone can grow their own if they want.

Most don't grow their own because of the required investment in their money & time. And if you want to become a grower all you have to do is get some people to sign their 6 plants over to you to grow, or they can also go to a Dr. and have the prescription (plant limit) increased. 

Anyone with an MJ license can sell to a dispensory, but the dispensory has to pick it up because unless you have a dispensory license you're only allowed to transport 2oz at a time.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 17, 2009)

Dan Kone said:


> In the 2010 tax and regulate bill it is legal for anyone to grow a 5x5 tray.


 
I assume by the date that this is a proposed bill that hasn't been voted on yet. Do you know if it's a federal bill or one just local to your state?


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## 2much (Nov 17, 2009)

i only worry about the medical aspect,it sucks having to pay a doctor 125 bucks every year for the card. and what will the pharmaceutical company's do? they will raise the price of weed and try to outlaw growing your own


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## micro.grower (Nov 17, 2009)

so preciate explaining that dannygreeneyes that makes a lil more since to me... so basically people are lazy and wont take the time to grow their own... the says something about our nation... even stoners....lol... if anyone was allowed to grow a 5x5 tray, i am guessing he means pot size... if it were plant limit that would be 25.. damn... that would be some crazy shit, so i am going back to the tray... but even that would be sweet.. everyone could have their own micro grow goin... i have seen homies get over an ounce outta a grow container smaller than that... that would also regulate drug dealers from trying to do it big illegally without fucking it up for the lil guys who just wanna grow their own... i would have like a perpetual shot glass grow of clones outta that 5x5 tray... but if they took away growing completely, then that would suck... that would suck real bad... i'm not asking for a forest, or even a garden.. just a lil micro grow going... that would make me happy..


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## micro.grower (Nov 17, 2009)

i would pay 125 to be a medicinal patient any day... i would give up being able to eat if i had to...lol.. maybe not that, but you get the idea.. i need medicinal like my momma needs her crack rox... lol... if i dont have any herb, I AM A TYRANT!!! anyways, you get the idea...


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## ExistentialToker (Nov 17, 2009)

i agree with the paranoia shit... i think toking in a legal environment.. knowing your all legal... would change the whole experience. Shit, ask anyone who has been to amsterdamn or even someone who does smoke legally in this country...it has to be different. I remember I used to get so paranoid I would have trouble breathing and I would just be a wreck... but it never happens anymore and its just much more relaxing... less wasted thoughts about stupid crap and more productive happy thoughts...the weed can actually do its job. 

so yeah.. it'd be sweet if legalized, people wouldn't have to deal with schwag comin around every other buy... especially people using it for medical purposes who can't get a license for whatever reason... they can't get a steady dose/strain to use for treatment because they have to buy all this off the wall brick weed that hasnt even been trimmed right! 

There are a hell of a lot more pot smokers than there are dealers and the majority would benefit from legalization. fuck, society would benefit from legalization. THE WORLD would benefit from legalization. dun dun dunnn

EDIT: dont forget that sack you got the other day that was dried in a microwave 15 minutes before you picked it up... or the infamous cat piss bag... =/


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## micro.grower (Nov 17, 2009)

damn... i envy you legal smokers..


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 17, 2009)

2much said:


> i only worry about the medical aspect,it sucks having to pay a doctor 125 bucks every year for the card. and what will the pharmaceutical company's do? they will raise the price of weed and try to outlaw growing your own


 
I don't mind the $125 so much, and I didn't mind before I started growing either. But I do share your concern about the politics. There's a politician trying to privatize it right now so only 1 company can grow, only pharmacies can sell, and every time you need to see a Dr. and get another prescription.

This would be bad for local businesses, growers, and especially MJ license holders. And I'm sure it's one of those dirt bag politicians that fought legalization for the last 30 years but now that he has the chance he's trying to get a big campaign contribution off of it. 

That's why I said earlier that I think all the small growers & dispensories should get together and start their own union so we can get our own lobbyist in Washington with his very own check book. Seems like the only way to get a fair shake anymore is to buy yourself a few politicians. I hate it, but that's the way it is


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## Hydrotech364 (Nov 17, 2009)

Always rumour's about Texas but never any results.I don't think Rick Perry has figured out a way to make us pay through the ass for it yet.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 17, 2009)

micro.grower said:


> damn... i envy you legal smokers..


Don't worry, legalization is spreading every time there's an election. Unless something happens to stop it, it should be legal throughout the US indisde the next 10 years or so.

I actually thought that guy meant a 5x5 pot, but who knows. lol

I guess people who don't grow have their reasons, and I'm sure there are a host of reasons......
Kids in the house
No room
Too Lazy to learn
Don't think they can
Too lazy to deal with it
Are no good at growing houseplants
Are afraid neighbors will find out 
etc....

I'm sure I could think of another 20 excuses if I had the time. But that's the way it is with all things. Some get is, some misunderstand it, some are scared of it, some are entheused, etc.... (one man's refuse is anohter man's pot of gold)


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 17, 2009)

hydrotech364 said:


> Always rumour's about Texas but never any results.I don't think Rick Perry has figured out a way to make us pay through the ass for it yet.


 
The bible belt will be the last to go for the most part. Too many people own their own copy of Reefor Madness which they still beleive and probably watch religiously. lol

Sorry, just gotta hang in there and wait. Or you can move, that's what I did.


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## micro.grower (Nov 17, 2009)

yeah, but if it were legal, then they would have no excuse NOT to grow their own... rite?


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## micro.grower (Nov 17, 2009)

moving has been on my mind heavy lately...


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 17, 2009)

micro.grower said:


> moving has been on my mind heavy lately...


Being legal/illegal is just one of the many reasons people have. And it's funny how when you remove a reason for someone not doing somthing they often come up with another reason. I gess part of it might be a resistance to change. I'm sure ignorance also plays a big part. But to quote either a movie or a philosopher (can't remember) "Ya can't reach everyone" lol

If you're thinking of moving you should check out NORML's website, it has a map where you can find which states have legalized medical MJ.

Hope there's a state near you. I had to move half way across the country. lol If you want cheap rent though you should check out CO, I'm only paying $470 for a mid size 1br on the outskirts of Denver. Apartment comes with a walk in closet (grow room), swimming pool, weight room, hot tub, the works.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 17, 2009)

Wrong quote, I remember it now. From the movie Cool Hand Luke & a Guns N Roses song......
Some men you just can't reach, which is the way he wants it........ Well, he get's it. I don't like it anymore than you do"

I kinow part of that quote is missing, but I think that's most of it. lol


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## micro.grower (Nov 18, 2009)

yeah.. norml has alot of good info on shit like that... colorado seems cool, i even considered denver area... but my chik is likin cali... itll be either colorado or cali.. one of the 2 prolly...


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 18, 2009)

micro.grower said:


> yeah.. norml has alot of good info on shit like that... colorado seems cool, i even considered denver area... but my chik is likin cali... itll be either colorado or cali.. one of the 2 prolly...


 
If you're going to move to CA you should check out Marijuana Inc on MSNBC on the weekends. In one of their episodes they give info on an area of CA where a lot of growers live because the laws are more laxed, the something Triangle. 

Good place to grow outdoors if you want to try your hand at an outdoor grow.


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## micro.grower (Nov 18, 2009)

the emerald triangle.. its up around humboldt arcata mendecino area... trust me, i have looked into... that place doesnt even seem like it is part of the u.s... that is would be my absolute dream place to live... the scenery, the bud, the weather... everything about it, cept my occupation... not that i cant smoke with my job, i just dont think that my job is very big there... i guess i could always "legally" grow for a living...hummm.... hummmmmboldt... so many ideas and reasons... lets put it like this, if i moved to the emerald triangle, i would have to start a whole new riu profile just to change my name to "as.big.as.i.can.grow.grower"... people could say good bye to the lil man micro...lol... i'm baked rite now...


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 18, 2009)

micro.grower said:


> the emerald triangle.. its up around humboldt arcata mendecino area... trust me, i have looked into... that place doesnt even seem like it is part of the u.s... that is would be my absolute dream place to live... the scenery, the bud, the weather... everything about it, cept my occupation... not that i cant smoke with my job, i just dont think that my job is very big there... i guess i could always "legally" grow for a living...hummm.... hummmmmboldt... so many ideas and reasons... lets put it like this, if i moved to the emerald triangle, i would have to start a whole new riu profile just to change my name to "as.big.as.i.can.grow.grower"... people could say good bye to the lil man micro...lol... i'm baked rite now...


 
lol, it does sound like you did your homework. I decided against CA when I moved here mainly because of the earthquakes. When you have luck as bad as mine, you have to take these things into consideration. lol

Just do yourself a favor and put some money away just in case you have to pick up & move all of a sudden. If they privatize it or start to put difficult regulations on it, you might want to be mobile.

Oh, and the rend in CA is considerably more expensive so make sure you save enough money to get set up and go without an income for 4 months or so. You sound like you'll be ok though, good luck with it.


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## micro.grower (Nov 18, 2009)

like i said, it was a dream place... i may retire there one day, but for now, i guess i am just gonna have to stick it out and see what the future holds...


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## Dan Kone (Nov 18, 2009)

DannyGreenEyes said:


> I assume by the date that this is a proposed bill that hasn't been voted on yet. Do you know if it's a federal bill or one just local to your state?


It's for the state of California. It's for full legalization. And polling data indicates it'll pass.


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## Dan Kone (Nov 18, 2009)

DannyGreenEyes said:


> I actually thought that guy meant a 5x5 pot, but who knows. lol


I meant 25 square feet of canopy. Meaning as much as you can grow in that amount of space. Hydro, dirt, indoor, outdoor, pots, trays... The law doesn't distinguish. It just has to fit in 25 sq feet.


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## micro.grower (Nov 18, 2009)

once again, i can hear the emerald triangle calling my name...


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## micro.grower (Nov 18, 2009)

but i guess with a 25x25 grow space, than that would be fucking awesome... wow... that means anywhere in cali would be an awesome place to live.. not just norcal...


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## Dan Kone (Nov 18, 2009)

micro.grower said:


> but i guess with a 25x25 grow space, than that would be fucking awesome... wow... that means anywhere in cali would be an awesome place to live.. not just norcal...


It's not 25x25. It's 5x5. But yes, 25x25 would be awesome.


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## micro.grower (Nov 18, 2009)

alright, but even that is plenty of room to be self suffeciently growing your own herb and never buying weed again...


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 18, 2009)

Dan Kone said:


> It's not 25x25. It's 5x5. But yes, 25x25 would be awesome.


 
That sounds OK for the user/patient, but on that show they showed one guy who was growing in his back yard. He said he's never had another job other than growing, and he was using a much larger area to grow in his back yard. I'm sure he doesn't want anything to pass that will change that.

As a grower, I'm planning on having a small warehouse by the end of next year. So it doesn't really sound good to me either unless they have a grower or dispensory license you can get to make bigger grows.

For the user, it's more than they need so it's a good deal. It'll be interesting to watch & see what happens.


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## jakethetank (Nov 18, 2009)

Im sorry man, but your an idiot. If a state like California were to legalize it, we could finally get ourselves out of the hundreds of millions dollars of debt. By legalizing, the govenment and state would tax it giving them extra revenue boosting up the state. THIS IS WHY YOUR STUPID, AND WHY MARIJUANA WILL BE LEGALIZED IN CALIFORNIA IN 10 YEARS.


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## micro.grower (Nov 18, 2009)

i dont really get what your saying jakethetank... you think it is gonna take them 10 years to legalize it? i think it will be in the next year or so in cali... cali doesnt really follow fed dictation very well...


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 18, 2009)

jakethetank said:


> Im sorry man, but your an idiot. If a state like California were to legalize it, we could finally get ourselves out of the hundreds of millions dollars of debt. By legalizing, the govenment and state would tax it giving them extra revenue boosting up the state. THIS IS WHY YOUR STUPID, AND WHY MARIJUANA WILL BE LEGALIZED IN CALIFORNIA IN 10 YEARS.


 
Here we go with the dam semantics again.

Hey jackass, what do you call legalizing? If I'm not mistaken medical marijuana is already legal & being taxed in CA. And growers are allowed to earn a living.

NORML calls it decriminalizing when a state loosens it's laws enough so that they're not overly harsh. That's not decriminalization in my book (not that I can spell it properly. lol).

So in your idea of legalizing, how is it different than Medial MJ? Does everyone get to smoke? Is there an age limit like iwth alchahol? Do the growers & dispensories get left out in the cold? What? What? What?

We all need to make sure the language (semantics) doesn't get us all turned around, confused, and fighting each other instead of fighting the would be regulators.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 18, 2009)

jakethetank said:


> Im sorry man, but your an idiot. If a state like California were to legalize it, we could finally get ourselves out of the hundreds of millions dollars of debt. By legalizing, the govenment and state would tax it giving them extra revenue boosting up the state. THIS IS WHY YOUR STUPID, AND WHY MARIJUANA WILL BE LEGALIZED IN CALIFORNIA IN 10 YEARS.


 
So this guy is gonna call someone an idiot because they don't think like him, then when you try to discuss the matter with facts and info, he don't want to debate anymore. Must be a right wing-nut. lol

Either debate civily & logically, or STFU and go get your book autographed by Palin. Leave the legalizing to those of us who don't base our opinions on a single sound bite, no matter how catchy it is. lol


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## emmaegdy (Nov 18, 2009)

lol i say different there was a social experiement here in canada in 2003 in victoria it was call DA KINE bud caffee it only sold ganja oor anything to do with growing and cultivating it. As it turned out it was a success drug dealers left the area they couldnt compete with this shop wich was bringing in more then 30k a month ( and they payed taxes on it too) it was run by organic pot growers and farmers from the area offering like 30 diff strains! 

well it got shut down in 2004 and everyone in the area was like WTF is the cops doing leave that place alone and all the cops said was some really covered up and lame excuse that they got one complaint about the shop and that was enough to shut it down, since then canada pot law is in limbo here in ontario its technicaly legal but not on a fed scale the rest of the country is like barely even being enforce with a crappy law that does not work. 

but right now there is a bill called bill-c15 that is an alll out US style drug war ( wich hasnt worked from the get go) stephen harper wants mandatory minimums and so on and it look as if this bill will die off cauz the conservative cannot show evidence or proof prohibition work to deter people from growing or using pot or any other drug( me personally ii dont consider pot to be a drug!)


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## Dan Kone (Nov 18, 2009)

DannyGreenEyes said:


> That sounds OK for the user/patient, but on that show they showed one guy who was growing in his back yard. He said he's never had another job other than growing, and he was using a much larger area to grow in his back yard. I'm sure he doesn't want anything to pass that will change that.


5x5 in hydro is plenty for personal use. Should be pretty easy to get a pound every few months.

Commercial growers permits will be available from your county. They will cost $5000 dollars and you automatically renew them every year for $2500. 



DannyGreenEyes said:


> As a grower, I'm planning on having a small warehouse by the end of next year. So it doesn't really sound good to me either unless they have a grower or dispensory license you can get to make bigger grows.
> 
> For the user, it's more than they need so it's a good deal. It'll be interesting to watch & see what happens.


Either way, it's an improvement on what we have now. The bill is far from perfect but it'll be the biggest step forward we've ever had.

< http://www.taxcannabis.org/ >


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## Dan Kone (Nov 18, 2009)

jakethetank said:


> Im sorry man, but your an idiot. If a state like California were to legalize it, we could finally get ourselves out of the hundreds of millions dollars of debt.


More than that. Using the current market as a projection with a $50 per ounce tax it should raise 1.4billion dollars per year + sales tax + additional marijuana tourism + we aren't spending money investigating, arresting, prosecuting, and keeping people in jail for cannabis related crimes. 



jakethetank said:


> That stuff adds up and should bring the state billions every year.
> THIS IS WHY YOUR STUPID, AND WHY MARIJUANA WILL BE LEGALIZED IN CALIFORNIA IN 10 YEARS.


I'd be one year, but agreed.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 18, 2009)

emmaegdy said:


> lol i say different there was a social experiement here in canada in 2003 in victoria it was call DA KINE bud caffee it only sold ganja oor anything to do with growing and cultivating it. As it turned out it was a success drug dealers left the area they couldnt compete with this shop wich was bringing in more then 30k a month ( and they payed taxes on it too) it was run by organic pot growers and farmers from the area offering like 30 diff strains!
> 
> well it got shut down in 2004 and everyone in the area was like WTF is the cops doing leave that place alone and all the cops said was some really covered up and lame excuse that they got one complaint about the shop and that was enough to shut it down, since then canada pot law is in limbo here in ontario its technicaly legal but not on a fed scale the rest of the country is like barely even being enforce with a crappy law that does not work.
> 
> but right now there is a bill called bill-c15 that is an alll out US style drug war ( wich hasnt worked from the get go) stephen harper wants mandatory minimums and so on and it look as if this bill will die off cauz the conservative cannot show evidence or proof prohibition work to deter people from growing or using pot or any other drug( me personally ii dont consider pot to be a drug!)


 
We're having our own problems here, I know what it's like listening to souless politicians & talking to misinformed people with strong opinions based in nothing but rumor & conjecture. Only thing you can do is to hang in there and fight the good fight (so to speak)

I don't think MJ is a drug either. In my book, if a substance isn't chemically addictive then it is simply not a drug.

Good luck up there


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 18, 2009)

Dan Kone said:


> More than that. Using the current market as a projection with a $50 per ounce tax it should raise 1.4billion dollars per year + sales tax + additional marijuana tourism + we aren't spending money investigating, arresting, prosecuting, and keeping people in jail for cannabis related crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be one year, but agreed.


 
Don't forget about all those people that would be unemployed (growers & dispensories)

But do you know what this guy means by leagalize? Just curious because I thought medical MJ was already legal in CA


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## Dan Kone (Nov 18, 2009)

DannyGreenEyes said:


> Hey jackass, what do you call legalizing? If I'm not mistaken medical marijuana is already legal & being taxed in CA. And growers are allowed to earn a living.


Sort of. There is absolutely nothing legal about selling marijuana, even to a club. But it is legal to grow and possess. 



DannyGreenEyes said:


> So in your idea of legalizing, how is it different than Medial MJ?


No card system. Anyone can posses or go to a marijuana dispensary. 



DannyGreenEyes said:


> Does everyone get to smoke?


Yes. Everyone gets to smoke and possess at least an ounce. (counties can set laws saying you can have more than an ounce, but not less)



DannyGreenEyes said:


> Is there an age limit like iwth alchahol?


Yes, 21. Same as alcohol. 



DannyGreenEyes said:


> Do the growers & dispensories get left out in the cold? What? What? What?


No. Dispensaries will be able to open their doors to the general public. Growers will need to pay $5k for a commercial license. 



DannyGreenEyes said:


> We all need to make sure the language (semantics) doesn't get us all turned around, confused, and fighting each other instead of fighting the would be regulators.


There will definitely be more fights to be had. And yes, corporate America will try and take their piece. It's not perfect, just better. Can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.


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## Dan Kone (Nov 18, 2009)

DannyGreenEyes said:


> Don't forget about all those people that would be unemployed (growers & dispensories)
> 
> But do you know what this guy means by leagalize? Just curious because I thought medical MJ was already legal in CA


Yes, I know exactly what he means by legalize. Just read the bill. 

MEDICAL is semi-legal in California. This is legalization for everyone.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 18, 2009)

Dan Kone said:


> Yes, I know exactly what he means by legalize. Just read the bill.
> 
> MEDICAL is semi-legal in California. This is legalization for everyone.


 
I guess I was mistaken. When I saw that CA grower being interviewed I thought selling to the dispensories would be legal, especially since it is here. I wonder where the cops think they're getting it from. lol

If that's what's on the bill then I'd say it's about as close to perfect as you can get. It's a win for everyone, I might even move there if it passes. I wouldn't mind paying the $5k, it's not like I'd be making enough to afford it pretty comfortably.

The thing I'm worried about is the semantics that the politicians will try to use so they can bend it to their personal benefit instead of doing what's right for the people. Last week someone tole me that NY legalized but they didn't. NORML has NY listed as a state that has decriminalized, but in my book they haven't because there are laws against it that can get you a fine or jail time. But this guy read "decriminalized" and thought it meant legal. You see where I'm getting at.

But that sounds like one hell of a bill, I'd make sure I wake up early enough to vote on that day if I were you.


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## Dan Kone (Nov 18, 2009)

DannyGreenEyes said:


> I guess I was mistaken. When I saw that CA grower being interviewed I thought selling to the dispensories would be legal, especially since it is here. I wonder where the cops think they're getting it from. lol


It's miracle weed that magically appears in clubs ofc. 



DannyGreenEyes said:


> If that's what's on the bill then I'd say it's about as close to perfect as you can get. It's a win for everyone, I might even move there if it passes. I wouldn't mind paying the $5k, it's not like I'd be making enough to afford it pretty comfortably.


The only problem I have with it is who decides who get commercial permits and how many will be given out. The bill doesn't specify.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 19, 2009)

Dan Kone said:


> It's miracle weed that magically appears in clubs ofc.
> 
> 
> 
> The only problem I have with it is who decides who get commercial permits and how many will be given out. The bill doesn't specify.


 
Well as long as it's like any other business license then you just go down to the COC or State Lic Office (changes state to state) and provide proof of residency and who you are, and they sell you a license.

If they're going to try to control it like an alchahol license, then fuck that. It'll cost ya $5k for the license and another $30k to pay off the inspector. lol


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## HazyDaze420 (Nov 19, 2009)

I think there are several ways this can go. I am not really in favor of the "Medical Use" push because I think that can lead us down the wrong road. If that approach is pursued fully, I see pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies and Doctors running the show. MJ will be considered a controlled substance and it will be no easier to get and no less illegal than Morphine. If there were a lobby, I think the smart approach would be to attempt to classify MJ the same way alcohol is classified. Regulatory taxes and laws that maintain market integrity (ie. limits to the sheer number of vendor licenses issued every year- per capita) would go a long way in arguing the benefits of the presence of MJ in the marketplace. This would facilitate the use of MJ to be more socially accepted in public and avoid involving BIG PHARMA in the whole thing and even perhaps serve to protect the smaller growers. It would also give the politicians and conservatives "a way out" with regard to unrealistic and costly MJ laws. It would also allow for market growth which is good for everybody. As far as quality is concerned- the market will dictate if you order Blueberry Kush or Mexican Brown just like it dictates you ordering a Heinekin or Natural Light! Demand will clearly increase as many of those who do not smoke for legal reasons will want to join the cool kids! I would imagine that the Market price for MJ would not change all that much as it has had many years of robust revenue generation with minor price fluctuations (percentage wise). We as smokers have already regulated the price. I know that I will grow my own before I pay some unGodly price for a little weed and I'm sure most of the people on this forum would agree. The market knows that too. Just like brewing your own beer- it's a hobby for a few but most people belly up at the local Pub or pick something up on the way home. Most of the beer is better yeah but it takes a lot of work and we don't like that- it's work! I think most will be happy to "pick something up on the way home" just like they do now. Please don't get me wrong, medical use and the laws in California are a great step forward and are a start and I fully support any measure that can get me and everyone else high but IMHO, I'm just not sure "Medical" is the way we should go as our only approach. It is important that people accept it overall and not just as a "pain med". The facts support the use of MJ both medically and recreationally. It is not anywhere near as dangerous as alcohol, it is not addictive (so they say but I can't quit-not that I have really tried!) and will generate a ton of money in taxes- which we all know is what it is really about. Hopefully the die-hard ultra conservatives that have been in office all these years will finally die off (I really don't mean any disrespect by that) and we can get some hippie blood in government. One can only hope!!!


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## giantart (Nov 19, 2009)

i'm tired of going to prison. 4 prisons,2 states, 11 years......all i want is to smoke my meds, self medicate, and live a legal life.leaglalize it. i'm 55 yr old and tired of being an out-law


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## Cr33p4 (Nov 19, 2009)

Resinator i just watched The Union.. Great documentary


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## micro.grower (Nov 19, 2009)

ya'll have all proved alot of good points on this subject... all i know is that i AM the lil man who simply wants to grow his own... medicinaly or recreationally, either would be better than what i have to deal with in the bible belt... hell, even if we went medicinal, i got alot of shit going on mentally from being in baghdad for a year, so i am pretty sure i could find something that would qualify me for medicinal use and a medicinal card... who knows.. i think it is awesome, that at least one state realizes it is not bad... i just wish the rest would catch on with it...


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## Yota (Nov 20, 2009)

Legalize, because that's the way it should be. If you had a choice between Budweiser, or a Micro Brew which would you chose? There will always be a market for dank weed, nobody is going to want Camel Weed. It will be laced with addictive chemicals.


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## micro.grower (Nov 20, 2009)

good fucking point... the lil man always does it better...


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## shepj (Nov 20, 2009)

Philo2 said:


> I can't see how voting for freedom can ever be considered stupid.


We have a winner.


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## micro.grower (Nov 20, 2009)

exactly...its like freedom isnt free... we paid for it with years of stupid ass pot laws... now its time to cash in on our beloved plant.. we have dealt with shit long enough....


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## Grower1 (Dec 11, 2009)

It's going to be interesting to see what happens in CA if any of the propositions pass in 2010. I'm afraid that it will quickly lead to major corporations producing packs of joints the way they do cigarettes now, and completely push out the small growers. It would make it very inexpensive compared to prices now when it's mostly illegal, but it would put a lot of people out of work.
Some people have already started a corporation and they're selling stock on the penny markets, and that corporation is dedicated to taking over a big part of the market as soon as it's legal somewhere. They're buying thousands of acres of land so they can produce it the way wheat and corn are now produced for the big food companies. They don't care where it goes legal first, but they're betting on CA to be first of course. It's just an indication of what will happen if it's completely legal. I don't think any of us can predict exactly what will occur, and we certainly can't control it, but it doesn't look good for every day growers to be able to make a living once it's legal.


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## JazzCigarette (Dec 14, 2009)

I'm sorry but I completely disagree with you, brother. I don't believe that the US economy is as dependent on cannabis as you would think. There's not THAT many people out there profiting on it. There are, but not in comparison to the rest of the people who still contribute to the economy but don't make their money from ganja. 

Also, you have to understand that if MARIJUANA is legalized, so will be INDUSTRIAL HEMP. Anybody who has been smoking for a good amount of time undoubtedly knows the economic advantages of industrial hemp! If anything, an economic upset would result from hemp being able to replace so many industries in the United States. I think that's an economic overturn that I could stand to live with. I'll deal with economic upset if it means that one day we'll be wearing hemp clothes, writing on hemp paper with pens made of hemp plastic, and driving cars which run on hemp biomass fuel. Call me stupid, but I'd vote for legalization.


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## ford442 (Dec 14, 2009)

ya.. this thread is a bit agitating.. whenever a group fails to properly tax their local consumer base properly we will get bad problems.. we need to make the financial correction of benefiting from our most used products..

i don't know why people have to be such sticks in the proverbial mud when it comes to legalizing pot - weren't we in the same high school halls? don't people have any perspective what is the right thing to do versus what they have been told is correct? i know people who smoke every day, but they still don't support legalization...... they keep saying it makes people 'lazy' and that we need to find a pill replacement for pot.. that MS patients need their regular drugs.. they see medi-pot fliers left on high school students cars as a big problem..  they will just have to wake up when our state, CA, totally legalizes next year...!!!


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## Secret Jardin (Dec 15, 2009)

ford442 said:


> ya.. this thread is a bit agitating.. whenever a group fails to properly tax their local consumer base properly we will get bad problems.. we need to make the financial correction of benefiting from our most used products..
> 
> i don't know why people have to be such sticks in the proverbial mud when it comes to legalizing pot - weren't we in the same high school halls? don't people have any perspective what is the right thing to do versus what they have been told is correct? i know people who smoke every day, but they still don't support legalization...... they keep saying it makes people 'lazy' and that we need to find a pill replacement for pot.. that MS patients need their regular drugs.. they see medi-pot fliers left on high school students cars as a big problem..  * they will just have to wake up when our state, CA, totally legalizes next year...!!!*


*
* 

I hope your right!


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## ford442 (Dec 15, 2009)

it's moving right ahead.. we have the senate bill from Ammiano and now one of our voter initiatives has enough votes to be on the ballot.. we know california is like 60% pro pot.. i have a lot of faith this will happen by 2011..!


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## d r0cK (Dec 17, 2009)

Dan Kone said:


> It's for the state of California. It's for full legalization. And polling data indicates it'll pass.


its another voter prop. that will be on the next ballot. so if you live in CA make sure you vote for it! all the info is in my avatar pic.

i was part of the gathering of signatures, we got over 3100 just in my area, and close to 22,000 in the San Diego area.... 

soon it wont matter where you live in CA, but some of the best bud will always come from humboldt area.


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## ford442 (Dec 17, 2009)

i don't understand...? why don't you guys just support AB390?? it is a MUCH better proposal than this huge compromise of having 28 grams and 5 feet of garden area.. are you on the side of the conservative punishers? i want pot to be treated like it is safer than alcohol...!!


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## OregonMeds (Dec 17, 2009)

I'm starting to get a sense from watching the news that the feds are welcoming medical mj all of the sudden in response to the problem with mexican gangs and the killings and stuff. Recently I saw a quote from one mexican drug dealing source which said their profits were down 40% since medical came on strong in some places. 

Nothing else either government has done including killing or locking up everyone they can made any dent at all, but we already did in a huge way.

It's the same thing that stopped alcohol prohibition. It wasn't how unjust it was that made it legal again it was the insane amounts of violence and killing which forced their hand imho.


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## zelfna90 (Dec 17, 2009)

I dont beleive is should be legalized either but only for Medical Purposes


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## Kushkittens (Dec 17, 2009)

It really doesnt matter if u want it to or not. Were talking huge profit here if its legalized, more studies, more innovations. its all around better to legalize it. Then all these highschool kids wont think its so cool nd giving weed a bad name.


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## ford442 (Dec 17, 2009)

yep - i have often thought that the prohibition creates an atmosphere where kids want to try drugs.. the propaganda hypes up the idea - "don't press the colorful clown shaped button!! don't do it ever - it is right there in front of you, but it is bad!" now - who are today's kids going to listen to? the cops? the government? who even presented the idea to them in the first place that it was an option for them? remember the Butt-Out Southpark episode? the creepy, lame anti-smoking campaign put the idea in the boys' heads to smoke.. that is why pot needs to be legal like alcohol so that the real truth can come out as plain facts - pot is non-addictive, pot has great medicinal value, pot does not cause cancer/emphysema/COPD like cigarettes, pot does not trash your body like alcohol, etc, etc, etc....

weed is the safe, resposible alternative to booze, cigs, and harder drugs!


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## micro.grower (Dec 17, 2009)

well one thing is true for users.. legalization is the way to go... my state isnt even medicinal.... i cant imagine it being legal... be awesome...


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## ford442 (Dec 17, 2009)

california needs to blaze the proper path with tax and regulation..!! no 1 oz limits though - you really want people still harassed by the cops over a few joints? we need to conserve that expenditure for real crime..!!


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## DazedNBlazed (Dec 18, 2009)

I really have no clue when it comes to this. I would like to see it legalized, but at the same time, I started smoking and shit when it was illegal. It would probably be a lot less appealing to people if it was regulated by the government.

And it's impossible at this point for the government to say, "We were wrong, it's a harmless plant." because they spend millions and millions a year just trying to fight the fucking drug and people would start questioning the government on what else they're wrong about.

Either way, weed will be in my future.


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## trance (Dec 18, 2009)

I personally don't think it will be less appealing if made legal. I mean look at alcohol, still appeals to ALOT of people and thats controlled. I am from the UK, our government has just sacked a top government medical advisor because he said that Canabis is less dangerous than riding a horse, let alone the dangers of tobacco or alcohol. Governments, like some people have said have been banging on about how dangerous canabis is for many years. Some of them are now in a position where they are forced to admit they were wrong. It will be a bitter pill to swallow!


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## Medshed (Dec 18, 2009)

Tying back to the OP's point about the economy (although he had it all backwards), we are facing a situation where we can no longer afford prohibition. Politicians no longer have the luxury of spending money on foolish programs that are proven not to work. Combine that fact with Obama's "change" platform and this seems like the best opportunity for the government to change course while still saving face.


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## Dan Kone (Dec 18, 2009)

ford442 said:


> california needs to blaze the proper path with tax and regulation..!! no 1 oz limits though - you really want people still harassed by the cops over a few joints? we need to conserve that expenditure for real crime..!!


The law is written in a similar manner as SB420. The 1oz + 5x5 growing area is the state minimum. Counties and cities will be able to set higher limits, just not lower. 

In addition to that standing medical marijuana laws still apply.


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## ford442 (Dec 19, 2009)

well - that is cool.. but, still a strange kind of compromise.. is there a limit on how much tobacco i can buy at the store?


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## OregonMeds (Dec 19, 2009)

Medshed said:


> Tying back to the OP's point about the economy (although he had it all backwards), we are facing a situation where we can no longer afford prohibition. Politicians no longer have the luxury of spending money on foolish programs that are proven not to work. Combine that fact with Obama's "change" platform and this seems like the best opportunity for the government to change course while still saving face.


But the powers that be can't afford to stop it. The job losses and budget cuts etc would be huge in their mind. You are killing two giant industries at least, probably more.


The for profit prison industry would be in jeopardy too not just the DEA and these are very big powerful entities with money to throw around, and their own lobbyists to throw it.


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## FireCoral (Dec 19, 2009)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I saw that documentary. The Union, I think. I don't agree with this perspective because it was said from a dealer's POV--and one who got busted at that. Very good documentary though, my fav of all the ones I've seen.

For those of you who have Netflix, look it up on there. It used to be on Instant Watch, so it might still be.

ETA: One thing this dealer fails to realize is the amount of US money going to other countries who smuggle the drugs in. If it were legal, that money would stay here.


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## Dan Kone (Dec 19, 2009)

ford442 said:


> well - that is cool.. but, still a strange kind of compromise.. is there a limit on how much tobacco i can buy at the store?


lol. That's actually a pretty solid point there. Hadn't thought of it that way. 

The bill is pretty fucked up in some ways, no doubt. But there is no denying it's a huge step forward that could ultimately start a chain reaction of other states passing similar laws which could lead to national legalization. 

I also don't like the 5x5 growing area part of the law or the fact that the bill is nonspecific when it comes to who decides who gets commercial growing permits and how many permits will be issued. But we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.


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## Dan Kone (Dec 19, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> The for profit prison industry would be in jeopardy too not just the DEA and these are very big powerful entities with money to throw around, and their own lobbyists to throw it.


You hit the nail on the head there. Ask the people working on the tax and regulate bill and they will all tell you the biggest opposition to the bill and they all say the prison guards union. 

Why would the prison guards union even care if marijuana was made legal? It still wouldn't be any more legal inside prisons. The only effect it would have on them is there would be less people going to jail.

If this law passes they are afraid the lack of people being incarcerated due to marijuana related arrests could possibly lead to cut backs in their hours/shifts. Of course they don't give a shit that these people don't belong in jail. They just see them as potential income...


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## ford442 (Dec 19, 2009)

just remember - AB390 is already in the works for 2010 voting - 

AB 390, as introduced, Ammiano. Marijuana Control, Regulation, and
Education Act.
Existing state law provides that every person who possesses,
sells, transports, or cultivates marijuana, concentrated cannabis, or
derivatives of marijuana, except as authorized by law, is guilty of
one or more crimes.
This bill would remove marijuana and its derivatives from existing
statutes defining and regulating controlled substances. It would
instead legalize the possession, sale, cultivation, and other conduct
relating to marijuana and its derivatives by persons 21 years of age
and older, except as specified. It would set up a wholesale and
retail marijuana sales regulation program, including special fees to
fund drug abuse prevention programs, as specified, to commence after
regulations concerning the program have been issued, and federal law
permits possession and sale consistent with the program. It would ban
local and state assistance in enforcing inconsistent federal and
other laws relating to marijuana, and would provide specified
infraction penalties for violations of these new marijuana laws and
regulations, as specified. It would make other conforming changes.


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## s0k (Dec 19, 2009)

my personal opinion, there's too much money to be made on both sides of the line. i mean, supposedly everything confiscated gets stored for a period of time til it's destroyed. that is, o my knowledge, now i'm sure the government seizes billions worth of drugs, and it's just a little hard for me to believe that every single last bit would be destroyed. even just a small portion would be more than enough to line your pocket with. ok, i don't know where i was going with that, but if the government legalizes it, then they can't bust you for it. and i'm sure with the amount of people trying to grow their own shit, that's a huge chunk out of their so called government budget. pots like nothing compared to other drugs or even alcohol, they just need a reason to bust your ass. but then again, i read somewhere that oregon is trying to pass something where they would setup facilities and start a tax of $98 per ounce. correct me if i'm wrong, cuz i forgot where i was going with that now too.. purp kush! woo hoo!


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## OregonMeds (Dec 19, 2009)

s0k said:


> my personal opinion, there's too much money to be made on both sides of the line. i mean, supposedly everything confiscated gets stored for a period of time til it's destroyed. that is, o my knowledge, now i'm sure the government seizes billions worth of drugs, and it's just a little hard for me to believe that every single last bit would be destroyed. even just a small portion would be more than enough to line your pocket with. ok, i don't know where i was going with that, but if the government legalizes it, then they can't bust you for it. and i'm sure with the amount of people trying to grow their own shit, that's a huge chunk out of their so called government budget. pots like nothing compared to other drugs or even alcohol, they just need a reason to bust your ass. but then again, i read somewhere that oregon is trying to pass something where they would setup facilities and start a tax of $98 per ounce. correct me if i'm wrong, cuz i forgot where i was going with that now too.. purp kush! woo hoo!


I'm right there with you man, woo hoo we're baked. 

Anyway yes you are talking about the Oregon cannabis tax act. It's hard to imagine such a ridiculous huge tax, but you're right it's around $100 every ounce. I still hope it passes for now at least. Holy shit that money will add up fast at that rate won't it?


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## ford442 (Dec 19, 2009)

i think we have found that, like the crack/cocaine disparity, the pot laws originally targeted mexicans and now targets black americans.. let me find the statistic... 

"Although the rate of marijuana use is only about 25 percent higher for African-Americans than for whites, blacks are three times as likely to be arrested for marijuana possession as whites."


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## Katatawnic (Dec 19, 2009)

ford442 said:


> i don't understand...? why don't you guys just support AB390?? it is a MUCH better proposal than this huge compromise of having 28 grams and 5 feet of garden area..


I'm honestly confused as to which is which... not only due to lack of reading up on them enough (I've read some, but not in depth enough to know 100% what they're proposing), but although they're obviously different there's enough similarity between the two to confuse one for the other. (Especially when one hasn't read up on them enough. Guilty! )



OregonMeds said:


> I'm starting to get a sense from watching the news that the feds are welcoming medical mj all of the sudden in response to the problem with mexican gangs and the killings and stuff. Recently I saw a quote from one mexican drug dealing source which said their profits were down 40% since medical came on strong in some places.
> 
> It's the same thing that stopped alcohol prohibition. It wasn't how unjust it was that made it legal again it was the insane amounts of violence and killing which forced their hand imho.


Aside from saving vast amounts of money I couldn't afford to spend, this is exactly what made me decide to start growing my own MMJ... having to deal with the gang bangers in order to obtain my medicine (as well as my "booze" - I hate drinking!). I live in the middle of this crap as it is, but having to deal with it directly was beyond disconcerting. There are no dispensaries in my county, or even a decent enough driving distance from me, so I was stuck with the gang bangers.

I'm in danger of violence if my neighborhood were to know that I've got a grow set up in my home (solely due to MJ prohibition and all the violence that it's created!), but I'm "paranoid" enough to keep my ass covered in that arena.  I'm no longer in danger of the violence in which I had to put myself in order to obtain my MMJ.

The violence, however, doesn't appear to have been enough to put a stop to MJ prohibition in the past, though I'm certainly hoping that's had a hand in even the small amount of progress made in ending this once and for all. I also hope that our votes do count this year as they did in 1996... with the results of the vote being accepted much sooner this time around!



zelfna90 said:


> I dont beleive is should be legalized either but only for Medical Purposes


Why, because already-legal alcohol is so much better for recreational use? 



Kushkittens said:


> It really doesnt matter if u want it to or not. Were talking huge profit here if its legalized, more studies, more innovations. its all around better to legalize it. Then all these highschool kids wont think its so cool nd giving weed a bad name.


I still recall an interview with Famke Janssen on one of the late night talk shows (Conan, if I recall correctly) in 2003/2004. In response to joking remarks and questions about pot being legal in her country, she said simply that it's not a big deal at all where she comes from, *because* it's something that's just always there and there's no "Reefer Madness" taboo placed on it.

*We only covet what we (are told) cannot have.*



ford442 said:


> yep - i have often thought that the prohibition creates an atmosphere where kids want to try drugs.. the propaganda hypes up the idea - "don't press the colorful clown shaped button!! don't do it ever - it is right there in front of you, but it is bad!" now - who are today's kids going to listen to? the cops? the government? who even presented the idea to them in the first place that it was an option for them?


Gee, sounds a lot like a Bible story I've read... and who presented the idea to them [_Adam & Eve_] in the first place that it [_the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge_] was an option for them? "See that? It doesn't matter how enticing it may look. It's bad, and you are not to touch it, ever!" 



DazedNBlazed said:


> I would like to see it legalized, but at the same time, I started smoking and shit when it was illegal. It would probably be a lot less appealing to people if it was regulated by the government.


Unless you're *quite* elderly, it's pretty much a given that it was illegal when you started smoking.  



trance said:


> Governments, like some people have said have been banging on about how dangerous canabis is for many years. Some of them are now in a position where they are forced to admit they were wrong. It will be a bitter pill to swallow!


Not if they swallow *my* pill... THC pill, that is. 



FireCoral said:


> ETA: One thing this dealer fails to realize is the amount of US money going to other countries who smuggle the drugs in. If it were legal, that money would stay here.


I highly doubt a dealer who is so concerned about losing his personal riches when pot is (re)legalized would be very concerned as to which country would benefit from the MJ profits. 



Dan Kone said:


> I also don't like the 5x5 growing area part of the law or the fact that the bill is nonspecific when it comes to who decides who gets commercial growing permits and how many permits will be issued. But we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.


I don't like it either, but it's still a hell of a lot better deal than what we've got now. (MMJ status aside, which I have; and though I'm not fortunate that I need it, I know I'm fortunate to have it.)

What I emphasized in red... 'nuff said! 



OregonMeds said:


> Anyway yes you are talking about the Oregon cannabis tax act. It's hard to imagine such a ridiculous huge tax, but you're right it's around $100 every ounce. I still hope it passes for now at least. Holy shit that money will add up fast at that rate won't it?


I don't know the percentages (and I should!), but I doubt that's much, if any, worse than cigarette taxes. Not that I like such high taxes, but I've been willing to spend them on cigarettes, so I'd indeed be willing to spend them on MJ... lesser of two evils! 

And it would indeed add up, and fast! Between the money gained in income/taxes and what would not be spent anymore in the court/legal systems and the "war on drugs"... our budget would see a noticeable upswing!


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## Katatawnic (Dec 19, 2009)

ford442 said:


> i think we have found that, like the crack/cocaine disparity, the pot laws originally targeted mexicans and now targets black americans.. let me find the statistic...
> 
> "Although the rate of marijuana use is only about 25 percent higher for African-Americans than for whites, blacks are three times as likely to be arrested for marijuana possession as whites."


Oh yes, if you Google the history of what led to the 1937 MJ Tax Act, you'll find very interesting racist "reasoning" and it was part of the "Reefer Madness" hype. Granted, the movie had all white characters, but I'm talking about the hype in general.

Homicidal mania... I still laugh my ass off at that one!  I have a lovely case of bipolar disorder, and pot will exponentially decrease (if not even completely stop in its tracks) my manias in moments. I'm only prone to the "homicidal" portion of mania without MMJ.

(OK, I drifted from the racist aspect of the Reefer Madness hype, but the term "homicidal mania" was used in the movie, so that's where my mind went next. lol)


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## ford442 (Dec 19, 2009)

AB390 is the bill introduced by our Assemblyman Tom Ammiano (D-San Francisco) 

http://www.mpp.org/states/california/information-about-ab-390.html

i guess it limits to 10 mature plants.. but, that is enough for me i think unless i decided to become a commercial producer..

the other is called Tax Cannabis 2010 and is a voter initiative which already has the signatures to go on the ballot..

http://www.taxcannabis.org/index.php/pages/about

"(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, it is lawful and shall not be a public offense under California law for any person 21 years of age or older to:
(i) Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual&#8217;s personal consumption, and not for sale.
(ii) Cultivate, on private property by the owner, lawful occupant, or other lawful resident or guest of the private property owner or lawful occupant, cannabis plants for personal consumption only, in an area of not more than twenty-five square feet per private residence or, in the absence of any residence, the parcel. Cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property. Provided that, nothing in this section shall permit unlawful or unlicensed cultivation of cannabis on any public lands."

five feet by five feet square per residence is pretty small.. i could probably plant more tobacco than that and have enough to poison a horse...


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## FireCoral (Dec 20, 2009)

Katatawnic said:


> I highly doubt a dealer who is so concerned about losing his personal riches when pot is (re)legalized would be very concerned as to which country would benefit from the MJ profits.


Excellent point. I guess this is just one of those which-side-of-the-fence sort of situations. Personally, if decriminalizing it meant I could grow my own and start a bakery, I'd be totally down for it. I love to cook, and I love weed. So this is essentially my dream job.


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## FireCoral (Dec 20, 2009)

ford442 said:


> (ii) Cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property


Wow. If this bill is passed, the next time you rent an apartment, you may have to pay a Cultivation Deposit--kinda like a pet deposit--just in case your set up somehow causes further damage than normal wear and tear. Haha! Ironically, this amuses me. 



Holy crap! Here's a good idea for anyone who leases out their property:

Advertise yourself as a marijuana-friendly landlord and rent out apartments that are already equipped with grow closets!! Yes! I'm moving to Cali if this is approved and buying an apartment building!


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## Katatawnic (Dec 20, 2009)

ford442 said:


> AB390 is the bill introduced by our Assemblyman Tom Ammiano (D-San Francisco)
> http://www.mpp.org/states/california/information-about-ab-390.html
> *[....]*
> the other is called Tax Cannabis 2010 and is a voter initiative which already has the signatures to go on the ballot..
> ...


Thank you for the info, Ford!  I can't kiss your ass again (rep LOL) till I spread around more  but I give it to you here and now anyway! 

My total grow space (veg & bloom both) totals just about 5'x5'. Even with this, I can't fit six 3 gallon pots into my flowering tent (2'x4') without crowding them more than I like... six mature plants being "technically" my medical status growing limit. Granted, this is enough to allow me to grow my 8 oz. dry amount allowed at a time (and then some), but that just goes to show how stupid it is to say that one can legally possess one ounce (if not medical status) and have a 5'x5' grow space... even a crappy grower would go over the 1 oz. limit in one grow! 

My point to the ramble... so a 5'x5' grow space is supposed to yield 1 oz. according to the legalization/decriminalization, but when there's a pot "bust" twenty-five tiny little cuttings that aren't even rooted and officially clones yet will result in felony charges claiming that the grower would have made hundreds of thousands of dollars. 

(Pardon me if I'm not coherent today... it's been one of those "stuck in bed and medicated 'round the clock" weeks. 'Nuff said? LOL)



FireCoral said:


> Personally, if decriminalizing it meant I could grow my own and start a bakery, I'd be totally down for it. I love to cook, and I love weed. So this is essentially my dream job.


That'd be my dream job too, if I could handle baking often!  My canna-oil has been highly praised though, so I could always make lots of that (much easier on my body than baking) and sell it to the bakeries!  Words can't describe how wonderful it would feel to be able to supplement my disability (or even be able to be rid of it altogether; one can dream! lol) and finally feel like I'm contributing more to the household than almost the total of the utility payments!

Ah, yes... one can dream...  



FireCoral said:


> Wow. If this bill is passed, the next time you rent an apartment, you may have to pay a Cultivation Deposit--kinda like a pet deposit--just in case your set up somehow causes further damage than normal wear and tear. Haha! Ironically, this amuses me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd rent from that landlord in a heartbeat! 

I've got two landlords: brothers I'll call S and F. So, I've got medical status in my state, both have known this since we moved in here two and a half years ago, and S knew that I've been growing. Apparently F didn't (yeah, great communication between brothers who do all of their business together, eh?! lol), and freaked out about it. Why? Because even though "I'm legal to grow" (his words), he's scared that the cops are going to be watching me like a hawk and then accusing him and me of being in kahootz selling together... as in a huge grow/deal op! LMAO!!! Our subdivision's handyman (as well as another medical grower) and S finally got F to calm down and listen to the handyman's repetition of the laws I'd just (yet again) explained to F, and now I'm allowed to grow my medicine here again. Let me tell you, it was a tremendous PITA, not to mention ridiculous reasoning! I can't wait till we're able to buy our own place (we're really hoping it'll be by this summer!), and be done with landlords altogether!


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## ford442 (Dec 20, 2009)

ya - how in the world does 5'x5' = 28grams? they should say we get one plant, but we can't water it and it can't be in direct sun....  lol...


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## Katatawnic (Dec 20, 2009)

That makes more sense than the proposals do!  Kinda how it feels now, even having medical status.


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## OregonMeds (Dec 20, 2009)

ford442 said:


> ya - how in the world does 5'x5' = 28grams? they should say we get one plant, but we can't water it and it can't be in direct sun....  lol...


Naw that would be as insane as making a tax on it, and requiring you to bring your illegal goods in illegally to get the tax stamp they wont give you anyway, then busting you either at home or on the way to get the stamp for not having the stamp.

Silly rabbit.


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## Dan Kone (Dec 20, 2009)

FireCoral said:


> Wow. If this bill is passed, the next time you rent an apartment, you may have to pay a Cultivation Deposit--kinda like a pet deposit--just in case your set up somehow causes further damage than normal wear and tear. Haha! Ironically, this amuses me.


Good idea actually. Hydo systems + carpet don't always go well together.

On a side note. How do I clean up nutrients spilled on carpet when there is a hydro table on top of it?


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## Dan Kone (Dec 20, 2009)

ford442 said:


> ya - how in the world does 5'x5' = 28grams? they should say we get one plant, but we can't water it and it can't be in direct sun....  lol...


Yeah. That should be interesting. I'd cry if one of my 4x4 tables yielded one ounce. Someone thought that one through...


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## RoundTree (Jan 3, 2010)

Why? 

Walkin out my front door with a joint in my hand, and giving the mayor of the town a hi5 with the other sounds pretty nice to me.


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## triconomics (Jan 4, 2010)

RoundTree said:


> Why?
> 
> Walkin out my front door with a joint in my hand, and giving the mayor of the town a hi5 with the other sounds pretty nice to me.


 Most of you sound like well a bunch of wankers! It is almost like the mindset like you actually think your cool now by following along with the government and finding every way out of thinking for yourselves. I fully agree with the mindset stated here however that there will be more than enough regulations just like there is now. And what does regulation entail these days? Cops lots of fucking dumbshit fucking power trip shit cops. Do I fucking trust cops? NO. Do I like cops? NO. Decriminalization would set no rules for COPS to enforce on my freedom at their will and leisure to fuck with me. Legalization is just going to be a different game where the government wins and still fucks you over and says deal with we don't give a shit all at their leisure. And it isn't semantics. One way the government admits their error which has to be done or else those currently in jail will stay in jail. Especially those in prison under federal laws. Legalization is just another game for them to "DICTATE" to us how we can and can't order our lives! And if we break their petty rules they have now the right to fuck us over and harass us the rest of our lives! I won't get into what I really think though.


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## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 4, 2010)

legalization vs. decriminalization

Really tough call, however 
I have to say decriminalize...
Complete legalization changes everything we know. I don't trust it. It's too soon, and I only say that because our Gov't is so fuct. I don't think it would be able to handle the change of complete legalization in one state, and no, not even semi-legal stances in other states.

Decriminalize...
Keep low level pot growers, smokers & dealers out of our jail, and prison systems. Let us grow, and smoke our weed. If we don't have any, let us buy a little from our neighbors.. fuckin simple..


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## estesj (Jan 4, 2010)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...


I agree 100% Its my nightmare that they legalize it. I have been depending on that money for over a decade. The only people that want it legal are the retail buyers. It would kill the growers and the hustlers!


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## dontexist21 (Jan 4, 2010)

MoN3yb4Gs said:


> legalization vs. decriminalization
> 
> Really tough call, however
> I have to say decriminalize...
> ...


Decriminalization would still have dealers being sent to jail. It only means that people will be able to process small quantities, not giving people the ability the sell it. Really what are you afraid off, your reasoning just sounds rediculous. The government would not be growing it, it would be in the hands of private industry. The day after it is made legal there will be thousands of people selling it out in the open. This is not health care, its regulating a product, we seem to do fine with alcohol and cigarettes. The government would only tax it, and weed would be cheaper then if we decriminalized it. It is not so simple since your neighbors would not just advertise that they sell pot since, THEY CAN STILL BE ARRESTED FOR SELLING. 

The black market would still control herb, meaning prices will still be high. If you do not take the risk out of distribution the price will still be high. And you are naive to believe that the government would allow the selling of pot without the ability to collect taxes. Mexican cartels will still be pushing their dirt weed, and making billions that should be going to America. And the DEA would still be busting down large grows and wasting tax payer money. Decriminalization fixes nothing. 

For everyone that supports themselves through weed, either find a way to get yourself into the new system, or get another job. There will be plenty of opportunities so guys that have grown it for years to find a place, it just matters if you are smart enough to to it. It might sounds harsh but that is just the way it is. I rather going into hemp production and making products out of hemp, since there is so much more money in industrial hemp then there is in pot.


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## dontexist21 (Jan 4, 2010)

estesj said:


> I agree 100% Its my nightmare that they legalize it. I have been depending on that money for over a decade. The only people that want it legal are the retail buyers. It would kill the growers and the hustlers!


No the only people that want it legal is just about every one but the growers, hustlers, and Mexican Cartels. Congratulations your in the same club with an organization that brutally kills families to keep their dominance in the black market. 

The average American wants it legal and regulated. Either find a place in the new legal scene when it happens or get another job.


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## RoundTree (Jan 4, 2010)

If all fossil fuels and their derivatives, as well as trees for paper and construction were banned in order to save the planet, reverse the Greenhouse Effect and stop deforestation; then there is only one known annually renewable natural resource that is capable of providing the overall majority of the world's paper and textiles; meet all of the world's transportation, industrial and home energy needs, while simultaneously reducing pollution, rebuilding the soil, and cleaning the atmosphere all at the same time... and that substance is -- the same one that did it all before -- Cannabis Hemp... Marijuana!

legalize it thank you emperor wearing no clothes


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## estesj (Jan 4, 2010)

dontexist21 said:


> No the only people that want it legal is just about every one but the growers, hustlers, and Mexican Cartels. Congratulations your in the same club with an organization that brutally kills families to keep their dominance in the black market.
> 
> The average American wants it legal and regulated. Either find a place in the new legal scene when it happens or get another job.


which makes you a retail buyer smart guy. You sound like the typical jealous player hater. Grow some balls and learn how to grow and you wont have to be a $100 a quarter buying chump all your life! Putting a weed dealer in the same boat as the mexican mafia is idiotic.


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## Dan Kone (Jan 4, 2010)

RoundTree said:


> If all fossil fuels and their derivatives, as well as trees for paper and construction were banned in order to save the planet, reverse the Greenhouse Effect and stop deforestation; then there is only one known annually renewable natural resource that is capable of providing the overall majority of the world's paper and textiles; meet all of the world's transportation, industrial and home energy needs, while simultaneously reducing pollution, rebuilding the soil, and cleaning the atmosphere all at the same time... and that substance is -- the same one that did it all before -- Cannabis Hemp... Marijuana!
> 
> legalize it thank you emperor wearing no clothes


You have my vote for president in 2012.


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## vapeape (Jan 4, 2010)

do not vote for legallization???
fuck that.. for once in my life not to be a criminal,, i'll take legalization,, i am sorry blackmarketiers, but i payed inflated prices for sub par bullshit product most my life, you are just scared cause you might have to go to work like the rest of us.... legalize it stop our citizens from going to prison... yeah poor people caught up in a sensless tragedy, taken away from their families in podunk towns for simple possesion...makes me sick to think that people would rather see innocents in jail for a harmless smoke than to loose a paycheck.


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## vapeape (Jan 4, 2010)

estesj said:


> which makes you a retail buyer smart guy. You sound like the typical jealous player hater. Grow some balls and learn how to grow and you wont have to be a $100 a quarter buying chump all your life! Putting a weed dealer in the same boat as the mexican mafia is idiotic.


really,, idiotioc huh...people die over large weed deal cause its illegal......
drug cartels run illegal drugs, they dont want it legal,,, YOU DONT WANT IT LEGAL,,,ALL ABOARD


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## Keenly (Jan 4, 2010)

ill vote for it every time


i want to go to the store and buy a pack of mary janes


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## estesj (Jan 4, 2010)

Y'all are in hippie dream land if you ever think that legalizing weed is ever coming up to vote on! The only big weed deals where people get killed are the ones with a bunch of bricks of mexi pressed reggie swag!


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## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 4, 2010)

dontexist21 said:


> The government would not be growing it, it would be in the hands of private industry.
> Decriminalization fixes nothing.


You may be the naive one thinking that the gov't isn't going to big dick this issue like they do everything else..

Both synthetic heroin, and meth are legal thus their legalization...and daily use by many...
However, that's only because this "private industry" (pharmacy corporations) are a money maker for the govt. Health care is the real biggest money maker in this bitch.
You don't think pot will end up the same way, after so many "private industries" manipulate the product on a cellular level that The FDA steps in, regulates, and controls it.. 

And... *WHO* do you think regulates, and controls these private multi-billion dollar tax paying pharmacopoeia corporate conglomerates...? THE FDA!
So... in essence *YES*, the govt would be growing it. The FDA... who is a govt agency would regulate the fuct out if it, thus having total control. It would end up being like pills without a prescription. So, now... Instead of a misdemeanor crime before legalization, it may end up being a felony charge. I know if you posses a pill of a controlled substance here in Washington state, and you do not have a prescription for it you'll be catching felony charges, and possible prison time.... That's one felony per pill that you don't have a scrip for. What would they end up doing? One felony per gram? 
There's definitely something to think about that... 




dontexist21 said:


> I rather going into hemp production and making products out of hemp, since there is so much more money in industrial hemp then there is in pot.


 I agree, hemp has the market cornered. However, once legalization happens you don't think corporations like Monsanto will step in and Genetically modify this organism.. Just like they do every other one. You know all that High Fructose Corn syrup you ingest. Well, most of it comes from Monsanto's GMO Corn. Which they own copyrights, and patents to the seed of... think about it. THEY OWN THE COPYRIGHT TO THE CORN SEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO ONE ELSE CAN USE IT WITHOUT THEIR WRITTEN PERMISSION>
Is it entirely possible that this could happen with hemp... ABSOLUTELY>! Here is just a taste. Do you even know the level your dealing with here bud? Don't fuck with me, I know my shit.  "With _Monsanto's_ patented genes being inserted into roughly 95 _percent_ of all soybeans and 80 _percent_ of all _corn_ grown in the U.S., *..." http://www.star-telegram.com/238/story/1827990.html

*"By CHRISTOPHER LEONARD
The Associated Press
 ST. LOUIS &#8212; Confidential contracts detailing Monsanto Co.&#8217;s business practices reveal how the world&#8217;s biggest seed developer is squeezing competitors, controlling smaller seed companies and protecting its dominance over the multibillion-dollar market for genetically altered crops, an Associated Press investigation has found.
With Monsanto&#8217;s patented genes being inserted into roughly 95 percent of all soybeans and 80 percent of all corn grown in the U.S., the company is also using its reach to control the ability of new biotech companies to get wide distribution for their products, according to a review of several Monsanto licensing agreements and interviews with agriculture and legal experts.
Declining competition in the seed business could lead to price hikes that ripple out to every family&#8217;s dinner table. The corn flakes you may have had for breakfast, the soda you may have drunk at lunch and the beef stew you may have eaten for dinner were likely produced from crops grown with Monsanto&#8217;s patented genes.
Monsanto&#8217;s methods are spelled out in confidential commercial licensing agreements obtained by the AP.
The company has used the agreements to spread its technology, giving some 200 smaller companies the right to insert Monsanto&#8217;s genes in their separate strains of corn and soybean plants. But, the AP found, access to Monsanto&#8217;s genes comes with plenty of strings attached.
For example, one contract provision bans independent companies from breeding plants that contain both Monsanto&#8217;s genes and the genes of any of its competitors unless Monsanto gives written permission &#8212; letting Monsanto effectively lock out competitors from inserting their patented traits into the vast share of U.S. crops that already contain Monsanto&#8217;s genes.
Monsanto&#8217;s business strategies and licensing agreements are being investigated by the U.S. Justice Department and at least two state attorneys general, who are trying to determine whether the practices violate U.S. antitrust laws. The practices are also at the heart of civil antitrust suits filed against Monsanto by its competitors, including a 2004 suit by Syngenta AG that was settled with an agreement and ongoing litigation filed this summer by DuPont in response to a Monsanto lawsuit.
Monsanto, based in suburban St. Louis, said it&#8217;s done nothing wrong.
"We do not believe there is any merit to allegations about our licensing agreement or the terms within," Monsanto spokesman Lee Quarles said.
"Our approach to licensing [with] many companies is pro-competitive and has enabled literally hundreds of seed companies, including all of our major direct competitors, to offer thousands of new seed products to farmers," he said.
The benefit of Monsanto&#8217;s technology for farmers has been undeniable, but some of its major competitors and smaller seed companies say the company is using strong-arm tactics to further its control.
"We now believe that Monsanto has control over as much as 90 percent of [seed genetics]. This level of control is almost unbelievable," said Neil Harl, an agricultural economist at Iowa State University who has studied the seed industry for decades. "The upshot of that is that it&#8217;s tightening Monsanto&#8217;s control and makes it possible for them to increase their prices long-term. And we&#8217;ve seen this happening the last five years, and the end is not in sight."
At issue is how much power one company can have over seeds, the foundation of the world&#8217;s food supply. Without stiff competition, Monsanto could raise its seed prices at will, which in turn could raise the cost of everything from animal feed to wheat bread and cookies.
The price of seeds is already rising. Monsanto increased some corn seed prices last year by 25 percent, with an additional 7 percent hike planned for corn seeds in 2010. The price of Monsanto soybean seeds climbed 28 percent last year."

 
ps... Do not insult my intelligence! ..My reasoning is my own, for my own reasons.... if you don't agree with me then please, by all means help me to understand why... 
I'm just stating my opinion like anyone else... thanks...


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## vapeape (Jan 4, 2010)

estesj said:


> Y'all are in hippie dream land if you ever think that legalizing weed is ever coming up to vote on! The only big weed deals where people get killed are the ones with a bunch of bricks of mexi pressed reggie swag!


 so those lives arent worth anything right???
so you dont think a thug got shot for 60k worth of og..right
whos livin in a dream..


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## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 4, 2010)

dontexist21 said:


> The average American wants it legal and regulated. Either find a place in the new legal scene when it happens or get another job.


Your sadly right. Also, the average American is sold a pipe dream that their taught to live as truth from birth. Don't vote legalize, and regulate. You should really think long and hard about this issue... It has too much potential to backfire on your ass...


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## Keenly (Jan 4, 2010)

estesj said:


> Y'all are in hippie dream land if you ever think that legalizing weed is ever coming up to vote on! The only big weed deals where people get killed are the ones with a bunch of bricks of mexi pressed reggie swag!


looks like your the one in dream land

been on the california ballot for years, so its safe to say you have no idea what your talking about


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## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 4, 2010)

subscribed.

Really it could be broken to two different issues... 

Hemp...legalize...

marijuana... decriminalize...

Or even vise versa...


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## estesj (Jan 4, 2010)

Keenly said:


> looks like your the one in dream land
> 
> been on the california ballot for years, so its safe to say you have no idea what your talking about


Thats one hippie new age state. Big fucking deal! No lives lost to drug dealing do not count. You know what your getting yourself into when you choose that lifestyle! That goes for me too! Now go put some some shoes on and wash your wool poncho. Peace brotha.


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## estesj (Jan 4, 2010)

resinator420 wheres my back bro, you started this thread. These dirty foots are teaming up on me.


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## dontexist21 (Jan 4, 2010)

estesj said:


> which makes you a retail buyer smart guy. You sound like the typical jealous player hater. Grow some balls and learn how to grow and you wont have to be a $100 a quarter buying chump all your life! Putting a weed dealer in the same boat as the mexican mafia is idiotic.


I just stated that both the dealer and the mafia both profit off of weed being illegal. I also would like the ability to not be fired for a drug test, the jobs which I am hoping to get will drug test and then fire me if I came up positive. I think you are just scared since you are not smart enough to work on a non black market level.


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## dontexist21 (Jan 4, 2010)

MoN3yb4Gs said:


> You may be the naive one thinking that the gov't isn't going to big dick this issue like they do everything else..
> 
> Both synthetic heroin, and meth are legal thus their legalization...and daily use by many...
> However, that's only because this "private industry" (pharmacy corporations) are a money maker for the govt. Health care is the real biggest money maker in this bitch.
> ...


Everyone one of your examples does not make sense as to why weed should be decriminalized but not legalized. For one thing if weed was legalized it would be treated as alcohol and tobacco. Yes there are rules when growing tobacco, but has it hampered the tobacco industry, no. The tobacco industry has actually become very very powerful in the government. Same thing with the alcohol industry, so I do not see what the government would do that would hamper you ability to acquire weed that would be worse then what is already the status quo. We are not talking about legalization for medical use, the bill is for recreational use. They can already arrest you easily for a gram. And taking your logic if you were allowed up to an ounce, what happens when you have 29 g. If it was legalized and alcohol and tobacco model of regulation was used you could have as much as you wanted and no one could say anything. 

I know Monsanto owns the copy right on certain strains of corn and soybean, and everything that they have done to keep their profit margins up. I have known this for years, but that does not scare me enough to keep marijuana from being legal. But just because corn was treated this way does not mean marijuana is going to be engineered to the point where there is 1% thc. That would not make any sense. Marijuana would be treated more like tobacco.

I did not mean to insult your intelligence just stated that your reasoning does not make sense.


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## dontexist21 (Jan 4, 2010)

estesj said:


> Thats one hippie new age state. Big fucking deal! No lives lost to drug dealing do not count. You know what your getting yourself into when you choose that lifestyle! That goes for me too! Now go put some some shoes on and wash your wool poncho. Peace brotha.


Wow I am a hippy because I believe in free market forces, and people not getting arrested for a plant. Not like getting called a hippie by a drug dealer who only can make survive in the black market and profits off of the misery of others is the worst thing that has happened to me.


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## Keenly (Jan 4, 2010)

dontexist21 said:


> Wow I am a hippy because I believe in free market forces, and people not getting arrested for a plant. Not like getting called a hippie by a drug dealer who only can make survive in the black market and profits off of the misery of others is the worst thing that has happened to me.



dude just wants to make money


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## estesj (Jan 5, 2010)

dontexist21 said:


> I just stated that both the dealer and the mafia both profit off of weed being illegal. I also would like the ability to not be fired for a drug test, the jobs which I am hoping to get will drug test and then fire me if I came up positive. I think you are just scared since you are not smart enough to work on a non black market level.


I'm an HVAC tech mother fucker I just hustlr on the side so fuck what your talking about with all that black market shit! Selling weed is way more of a job than you think with mother fuckers like you blowing my phone up all the time! I provide a service that most people appreciate.


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## estesj (Jan 5, 2010)

Keenly said:


> dude just wants to make money


Exactly bro. I treat my people very fair and they all love me. Allot of people rely on a second income to feed there families and I think regular people should make the money rather than are crooked government! Peace. P.S. nothing against hippies.


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## RoundTree (Jan 5, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> You have my vote for president in 2012.


Haha, i would like to try and and stay away from politics, just join my cult and fly with me to the moon.


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## joeman5000 (Jan 5, 2010)

totattyl agree bro fuck that vote no


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## Keenly (Jan 5, 2010)

well, here is how my brain works


we have a choice of sending people to prison, for smoking weed, harassment by law enforcement, no help enforcing the law from law enforcement (I.E. stealing your plants, they wouldnt care)

OR


some people can not make money off of it



i choose the latter, as the former affects way more people negatively than the latter


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## estesj (Jan 5, 2010)

Keenly said:


> well, here is how my brain works
> 
> 
> we have a choice of sending people to prison, for smoking weed, harassment by law enforcement, no help enforcing the law from law enforcement (I.E. stealing your plants, they wouldnt care)
> ...


Nobody has ever gone to prison for smoking weed! It is not a felony. You have to get caught with pounds to get prison time and even then you usually get probation! The only people at risk of fed prison are those with huge grow houses.


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## Keenly (Jan 5, 2010)

estesj said:


> Nobody has ever gone to prison for smoking weed!




this statement is so incorrect i dont even have words for it


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## RoundTree (Jan 5, 2010)

Yeah, when the government is going to do a change a drastic as this its defiantly there benefit in mind not ours, never ours.. And your point (estesj) of keeping our money out of the governments crooked hands its completely understandable. To the point which i'm almost undecided, but not quite. Simply put, there is just to much good that can come from legalizing marijuana.


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## estesj (Jan 5, 2010)

Keenly said:


> this statement is so incorrect i dont even have words for it


I think you are getting jail and prison confused my friend.


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## Keenly (Jan 5, 2010)

estesj said:


> I think you are getting jail and prison confused my friend.


'
not really

jail is where you go after being arrested and prison is where you go after being sentenced

pretty simple

but i guess its ok people get arrested for weed period as long as your making your quick buck right?


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## estesj (Jan 5, 2010)

Keenly said:


> '
> not really
> 
> jail is where you go after being arrested and prison is where you go after being sentenced
> ...


Your preaching to the quire! I have been arrested 17 times with 4 felony convictions and hve spent 6years in jail and prison. My last arrest was in march for cultivation. I got it dropped to felony possesson of mj and got 7 days time served for my 4th felony to prove my point. And no prison is where you are sent for more serious felonies for more than 1 year and county time is what you get for misdemenors like smoking weed. Know who you are talking to before you try and argue buddy!


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## Keenly (Jan 5, 2010)

your splitting hairs

your not debating my actual point which is you care more about making your quick buck than people getting arrested for smoking some weed

you are saying you dont want it legalized cause then you cant make any money off of it, and thats pretty selfish...


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## estesj (Jan 5, 2010)

Keenly said:


> your splitting hairs
> 
> your not debating my actual point which is you care more about making your quick buck than people getting arrested for smoking some weed
> 
> you are saying you dont want it legalized cause then you cant make any money off of it, and thats pretty selfish...


Whatever man. I guess 80% of riu is selfish then. If you get caught smoking weed you are a careless dumbass! Good luck. out.


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## dontexist21 (Jan 5, 2010)

estesj said:


> Whatever man. I guess 80% of riu is selfish then. If you get caught smoking weed you are a careless dumbass! Good luck. out.


I doubt 80% of RIU wants the status quo to remain the same.


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## estesj (Jan 5, 2010)

dontexist21 said:


> I doubt 80% of RIU wants the status quo to remain the same.


Thats not what im saying. Im saying they sell some of the weed they grow and according to home boy that is wrong to make a profit off weed because people go to jail for smoking it.


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## Keenly (Jan 5, 2010)

apparently your not listening to what im saying


you are being selfish, by wanting to make money, even if it means people get sent to prison for dealing / smoking

the fact that you would rather be able to make money than free thousands and prevent thousands from being legally harassed just shows what kind of person you are, a very greedy man indeed


honestly, think about other people, instead of your wallet

never said it was wrong to make a profit, your putting words in my mouth because you honestly can not debate what im saying


you would rather yourself be able to make money, than allow people to be free and live their lives as you see fit


you should be a politician, you would be great at it


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## Keenly (Jan 5, 2010)

shepj said:


> wow.......


i know right? and he still wants to make his money, he doesnt care if other people's lives get ruined while they waste away in the penal system because he can make money off of it


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## ford442 (Jan 5, 2010)

what about the fact that if pot were legal then the legit market would make it easier to physically sell the stuff.. you could put ads in the paper.. local internet delivery.. it will kick ass - i'm telling you... isn't the reason black market dealers charge so much partly because they are taking a risk? eliminate the risk and everyone wins..!


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## estesj (Jan 5, 2010)

Keenly said:


> apparently your not listening to what im saying
> 
> 
> you are being selfish, by wanting to make money, even if it means people get sent to prison for dealing / smoking
> ...


I take care of my family and my friends and you are going over the deep end calling me greedy and a bad person. I am a very generous person. I don't want anymore of this talk so I'm out. Peace!


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## Keenly (Jan 5, 2010)

estesj said:


> I take care of my family and my friends and you are going over the deep end calling me greedy and a bad person. I am a very generous person. I don't want anymore of this talk so I'm out. Peace!


if your so generous, why do you want weed to be illegal?

go ahead and run and hide because youve shown your true colors 



by the way, i caught were you called yourself a dumbass, it made me lol

you know, that part were you said you got caught and went to prison for six years, then said anyone who gets caught is a dumbass


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## estesj (Jan 5, 2010)

Keenly said:


> apparently your not listening to what im saying
> 
> 
> you are being selfish, by wanting to make money, even if it means people get sent to prison for dealing / smoking
> ...





Keenly said:


> if your so generous, why do you want weed to be illegal?
> 
> go ahead and run and hide because youve shown your true colors
> 
> ...


I said anyone who gets caught smoking you stupid fuck! Go buy an 8th of beesters for 50 bucks you small time country ass clown!


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## Keenly (Jan 5, 2010)

estesj said:


> I said anyone who gets caught smoking you stupid fuck! Go buy an 8th of beesters for 50 bucks you small time country ass clown!


insulting me is neither a good way to support your argument, nor a good idea if you enjoy this forum


why cant you just admit it, and ill go away?

you have greater interest in profit than personal freedom


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## estesj (Jan 5, 2010)

Keenly said:


> insulting me is neither a good way to support your argument, nor a good idea if you enjoy this forum
> 
> 
> why cant you just admit it, and ill go away?
> ...


Your not the damn pesedent of RIU I insult your ignorant ass all day til you you show me some respect. This is a free country!


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## Keenly (Jan 6, 2010)

estesj said:


> Your not the damn pesedent of RIU I insult your ignorant ass all day til you you show me some respect. This is a free country!


a free country ? yes, or at least we were once


but on this forum, you agreed to a terms of use that you are violating, and it will get you banned


i tell you this because i would not like to see you get banned, i need all the debate opponents i can get

so just relax, and try not to let emotion get in the way of rational debate, and youll be around for a good long time


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## estesj (Jan 6, 2010)

Keenly said:


> a free country ? yes, or at least we were once
> 
> 
> but on this forum, you agreed to a terms of use that you are violating, and it will get you banned
> ...


O.K. then. We both have points and I may be a little greedy but so are allot of other growers out here. I did not create this thread I just put my 2 cents in. I think your a little mad about you ps3 so good luck with that and smoke a J.


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## Keenly (Jan 6, 2010)

estesj said:


> O.K. then. We both have points and I may be a little greedy but so are allot of other growers out here. I did not create this thread I just put my 2 cents in. I think your a little mad about you ps3 so good luck with that and smoke a J.


FUCK yeah im mad about the ps3 that woman destroyed his shit lol

come on youd be pissed of your woman destroyed your favorite object


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## estesj (Jan 6, 2010)

Keenly said:


> FUCK yeah im mad about the ps3 that woman destroyed his shit lol
> 
> come on youd be pissed of your woman destroyed your favorite object


My wife tore like 1800 dollars worth of my clothes and a jacket with a knife 2 years ago so I know about that bullshit!


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## Keenly (Jan 6, 2010)

estesj said:


> My wife tore like 1800 dollars worth of my clothes and a jacket 2 years ago so I know about that bullshit!


you still with her after that? what could you possibly have done to warrant such behavior, did you murder her unborn child or something?


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## estesj (Jan 6, 2010)

Keenly said:


> you still with her after that? what could you possibly have done to warrant such behavior, did you murder her unborn child or something?


Went out drinking and turned my phone off and came home at 3 am on coke. It was dick head thing to do but damn!


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## Keenly (Jan 6, 2010)

estesj said:


> Went out drinking and turned my phone off and came home at 3 am on coke. It was dick head thing to do but damn!


bad? yes


but in my personal opinion, what she did you, your privacy, and your personal things was 10x worse

dont let some dude on the internet convince you do something to change your life though lol

i would be pissed


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## estesj (Jan 6, 2010)

Keenly said:


> bad? yes
> 
> 
> but in my personal opinion, what she did you, your privacy, and your personal things was 10x worse
> ...


Yea Were cool now plus she bonded me out on a 25000 dollar bond when I got busted for growing. She had to bond herself out first cuz they charged her with my plants as well.


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## Keenly (Jan 6, 2010)

estesj said:


> Yea Were cool now plus she bonded me out on a 25000 dollar bond when I got busted for growing. She had to bond herself out first cuz they charged her with my plants as well.


mmmmmm yeah i have no response to that im speechless


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## ataxia (Jan 6, 2010)

estesj said:


> I'm an HVAC tech mother fucker I just hustlr on the side so fuck what your talking about with all that black market shit! Selling weed is way more of a job than you think with mother fuckers like you blowing my phone up all the time! I provide a service that most people appreciate.


Dude you're arguing with people who want and NEED this legalized....why are you arguing anyways ......if its still illegal where your at you have nothing to worry about. Well except for the man busting down your door, taking your shit, losing your job and having all your CUSTYS you're charging 100 a q for turn over on your ass. A good drug dealer should know that the people they are taxing the shit out of are walking away from them saying "fuck him and his prices..i'm finding someone else" . 
Now we all know that the customers aren''t going anywhere until they find a new connect. But from my experience selling. there is never consistancy either you get a bad batch and lose your peeps or your customers start getting paranoid about you and whether you're being watched. MAYBE it's just the people i deal with.
We all can't live in you're GANGSTA fantasy land. Kinda like your opinion on the Hippies pipedreams and delusions ... I WANT IT LEGAL SO I DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH GANGSTAS, THE MAN, AND SOME GET OVER TRYING TO CHARGE 20 A GRAM. this gangsta mentality has to stop.....seriously though ...i understand the codes people live by ..but suburban white boys have no place in that circle... mommy and daddy will pay for the lawyer. AND AS FOR YOU GANGSTA.. do what you do if thats what you like.. but don't put me on so i can keep buying ok weed from shitty dealers. I wanna grow my own and not have to peep out the window to see who's knocking on my door, because i have a 50/50 chance of it either being the cops, or A GANGSTA that saw me reading my book at work. at least if it were legal i could call the cops on the gangsta rather than going to his house and smashing his skull in.


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## estesj (Jan 6, 2010)

ataxia said:


> Dude you're arguing with people who want and NEED this legalized....why are you arguing anyways ......if its still illegal where your at you have nothing to worry about. Well except for the man busting down your door, taking your shit, losing your job and having all your CUSTYS you're charging 100 a q for turn over on your ass. A good drug dealer should know that the people they are taxing the shit out of are walking away from them saying "fuck him and his prices..i'm finding someone else" .
> Now we all know that the customers aren''t going anywhere until they find a new connect. But from my experience selling. there is never consistancy either you get a bad batch and lose your peeps or your customers start getting paranoid about you and whether you're being watched. MAYBE it's just the people i deal with.
> We all can't live in you're GANGSTA fantasy land. Kinda like your opinion on the Hippies pipedreams and delusions ... I WANT IT LEGAL SO I DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH GANGSTAS, THE MAN, AND SOME GET OVER TRYING TO CHARGE 20 A GRAM. this gangsta mentality has to stop.....seriously though ...i understand the codes people live by ..but suburban white boys have no place in that circle... mommy and daddy will pay for the lawyer. AND AS FOR YOU GANGSTA.. do what you do if thats what you like.. but don't put me on so i can keep buying ok weed from shitty dealers. I wanna grow my own and not have to peep out the window to see who's knocking on my door, because i have a 50/50 chance of it either being the cops, or A GANGSTA that saw me reading my book at work. at least if it were legal i could call the cops on the gangsta rather than going to his house and smashing his skull in.


You sound very stupid and very gay! You better call the cops on a real gangster because you aint going to nobodys house and smashing no heads in. Ioo a quarter in FL is not a bad deal. You risk your ass and spend your money on real setups and grow some balls and see how much you charge! Its very stressful dealing with people like you and if you were my customer I would cut your ungreatfull ass off in a second! You no nothing about what your talking about!


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## shepj (Jan 6, 2010)

estesj said:


> You sound very stupid and very gay! You better call the cops on a real gangster because you aint going to nobodys house and smashing no heads in. Ioo a quarter in FL is not a bad deal. You risk your ass and spend your money on real setups and grow some balls and see how much you charge! Its very stressful dealing with people like you and if you were my customer I would cut your ungreatfull ass off in a second! You no nothing about what your talking about!


dude didn't you say you've been arrested 17 times? Apparently YOU are the one who has no idea what you're talking about, how do you get caught 17 times for something?! That is terrible! And meeting with LEO's that many times, I would say you're the more likely one to call the cops.. plea bargin much? And I was born in FL and still see cheaper than $100/q there.


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## estesj (Jan 6, 2010)

shepj said:


> dude didn't you say you've been arrested 17 times? Apparently YOU are the one who has no idea what you're talking about, how do you get caught 17 times for something?! That is terrible! And meeting with LEO's that many times, I would say you're the more likely one to call the cops.. plea bargin much? And I was born in FL and still see cheaper than $100/q there.


I an 33 years old and have been been in a life of crime since I was 12 so 17 times out of thousands of crimes is not bad. No pain no gain! If you got dank for less than 100 a quarter you dont know what good weed is. Who the fuck said I met with leos. You dont no shit about Fl or the game. Send some pics of your car,house, and other material things and I will send mine. I bet I make you look homeless you broke ass buster! Im the dude at the strip club drinking top shelf and getting vip while your drinking pitchers of chea beer and and hating on me. Im the guy fucking your girl you civilian bottom feeder! HAHAHAHA!


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## RoundTree (Jan 6, 2010)

estesj said:


> Its very stressful dealing with people like you and if you were my customer I would cut your ungreatfull ass off in a second! You no nothing about what your talking about!


You are quite possible the most ignorant person i have ever run across.


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## yellowrain53 (Jan 6, 2010)

i personally dont give a shit about "prices" and "profit margins" and a "monopolization of marijuana". i just want to be able to smoke a joint in my own home without "breaking a law". as far as "competing w/ the government".......... i dont care. sorry people who grow for profit.....nothing against you but legaLIZATION IS WHAT IM HOPING FOR. PROFITS BE DAMNED!!! sorry caps was on........


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## estesj (Jan 6, 2010)

yellowrain53 said:


> i personally dont give a shit about "prices" and "profit margins" and a "monopolization of marijuana". i just want to be able to smoke a joint in my own home without "breaking a law". as far as "competing w/ the government".......... i dont care. sorry people who grow for profit.....nothing against you but legaLIZATION IS WHAT IM HOPING FOR. PROFITS BE DAMNED!!! sorry caps was on........


I understand y'alls point wanting it to be legal and you pissed me off the least because you did not call me ignorant. I would be ignorant if I SOLD CRACK BUT i SELL the peaceful herb and there is no violence relating to that. People dont kill and suck dick for weed. If you have ever done a real grow in the states and know the risk and cost you know you damn well deserve and better make a profit! It is ignorant to call me ignorant and acting like I have a meth lab. This is a political thread and if you cant see both sides you should not be involved! I did allot of jail time and spent allot of money to keep people smoking because like it or not weed is not legal and smokers need people like me. Your backing the same government that invented methadone to get people off heroin so they could get the money for a more addictive drug rather than the dope man. +rep for constructive beliefs.


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## yellowrain53 (Jan 6, 2010)

estesj said:


> I understand y'alls point wanting it to be legal and you pissed me off the least because you did not call me ignorant. I would be ignorant if I SOLD CRACK BUT i SELL the peaceful herb and there is no violence relating to that. People dont kill and suck dick for weed. If you have ever done a real grow in the states and know the risk and cost you know you damn well deserve and better make a profit! It is ignorant to call me ignorant and acting like I have a meth lab. This is a political thread and if you cant see both sides you should not be involved! I did allot of jail time and spent allot of money to keep people smoking because like it or not weed is not legal and smokers need people like me. Your backing the same government that invented methadone to get people off heroin so they could get the money for a more addictive drug rather than the dope man. +rep for constructive beliefs.



i didnt call anyone ignorant dude. relax, homie. and like i said i feel for growers ( i know ALOT of people who depend on their harvests to feed the kids too) thats just MY take on the whole scenario. thats all. love, peace, and chicken grease.


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## Keenly (Jan 6, 2010)

yellowrain53 said:


> i didnt call anyone ignorant dude. relax, homie. and like i said i feel for growers ( i know ALOT of people who depend on their harvests to feed the kids too) thats just MY take on the whole scenario. thats all. love, peace, and chicken grease.


nah man he said your the only one who didnt


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## estesj (Jan 6, 2010)

Keenly said:


> nah man he said your the only one who didnt


whats up home boy? You see the way theses people are hating on me? People should not subscribe to political threads unless they cant agree to disagree. One love my fellow debater!


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## shepj (Jan 7, 2010)

estesj said:


> I an 33 years old and have been been in a life of crime since I was 12 so 17 times out of thousands of crimes is not bad. No pain no gain! If you got dank for less than 100 a quarter you dont know what good weed is. Who the fuck said I met with leos. You dont no shit about Fl or the game. *Send some pics of your car,house, and other material things and I will send mine*. I bet I make you look homeless you broke ass buster! Im the dude at the strip club drinking top shelf and getting vip while your drinking pitchers of chea beer and and hating on me. Im the guy fucking your girl you civilian bottom feeder! HAHAHAHA!


lol.. you must be a real badass throwing everything about you online.

Sorry, uhm where I live we only get Cali medical weed, Canadian medical weed, or homegrown indoor local strains.. nah I don't know what good weed is. Last year we had weed from Amsterdam here as well.. nah, I have no clue, none whatsoever. When is the last time you smoked OG Kush, ECSD, Strawberry Cough, G13 Haze, GDP, Grape Ape, Purple Erkle, Purple Kush (SR71)? Probably never.

If you're paying $100/q in FL you better be getting some Bubba Kush, or Sensi Star, Kali Mist, etc.

I bolded the area that makes you sound like an informant... I won't be sending you shit. 

I was born in the Bradenton area..

You sell weed... I have access to every commonly known substance, and most of the RC's that people know of (and then some). Don't talk about your VIP shit here son.


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## paddy657 (Jan 8, 2010)

OK were stoned... but were not that stoned


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## ataxia (Jan 8, 2010)

estesj said:


> You sound very stupid and very gay! You better call the cops on a real gangster because you aint going to nobodys house and smashing no heads in. Ioo a quarter in FL is not a bad deal. You risk your ass and spend your money on real setups and grow some balls and see how much you charge! Its very stressful dealing with people like you and if you were my customer I would cut your ungreatfull ass off in a second! You no nothing about what your talking about!


I would never buy anything from someone like you. You're a dime a dozen and can be spotted from a mile away from the way you talk. I'll bet you sit around and talk shit to your customers telling them that you stay makin money and how much of a baller you are. DIMEAFCKIN DOZEN! Btw while your in the stripclub drinking top shelf. I've already pissed in your drink banged the stripper and smoking on some of the shit i grew. And it didn't cost me 100 a q or a visit to a dickface in a throwback.


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## plantz (Jan 8, 2010)

This is only taking into consideration the pot we grow or produce... half of our weed is homegrown. the rest imoported illegally. This weed that is imported is complete garbage seed infested trash that costs nothing to produce and sells for like 600 a lb. This is the weed that you smoked when you were 13 folks. All of that weed is not helping us. We need to grow more of our own high quality shit and cut out the mexicans and canadians. Their mass produced weed sucks. Canada weed is beasters btw not nearly as bad.


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## topgun27 (Jan 8, 2010)

of course legalize it


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## ford442 (Jan 8, 2010)

topgun27 said:


> of course legalize it


ya! back on topic - i don't think the police officers involved have ever really enjoyed the destruction of young people's lives - or putting the hurt on adults for that matter - it is just their job - that is why i have been pretty enthusiastic over the LEAP program within the law enforcement agencies themselves - look it up if you haven't heard Law Enforcement Against Prohibition - they can really help bring reason to this politically motivated set of laws.. i have been spared trouble with police on a number of occasions as a young man and i believe it was their own kindheartedness, so i respect their actual views on these public health and safety issues.. this may be just in my neck of the woods, but the fact remains that someone needs to spread the truth to everyone about marijuana specifically - the truth will bring tolerance, understanding and a simple set of rules...


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## Dan Kone (Jan 8, 2010)

vapeape said:


> really,, idiotioc huh...people die over large weed deal cause its illegal......
> drug cartels run illegal drugs, they dont want it legal,,, YOU DONT WANT IT LEGAL,,,ALL ABOARD


I'm going to have to agree with that. Growing and selling weed is honest work. It only gets shady because it's illegal. 

Having it become legal may lose you money but might save your freedom. Which is more important to you?

-----------------------------------------------------------

For all those people out there who think if it's legal big business will take over and there will no longer be a place for them in the business:

You're right. If you have that kind of attitude it'll be a self fulfilling prophecy. You have to find a way to make it happen for yourself. If you just give up and accept that you're going to be screwed you will every time. While you guys are doing that I'm going to keep preparing for my own place in the legal cannabis business.


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## BIOHazard87 (Jan 9, 2010)

Ok, it's VERY obvious that drug cartels LOVE it being illegal because their profit margins are so much higher. Mexican officials themselves have told the U.S. to try to legalize marijuana in order to limit the Mexican cartel's. It's a very well known issue. Mexico's chief drug lord says he LOVES its illegal and would hate it to be legal as a lot of their profit would dry up.

Even if you could argue a few negatives for legalization, the positives FAR OUTWEIGH the negatives. If you are truly someone who wants to do best for the country, and not thinking selfishly for self-profit, then you should support legalization. We don't need the safety police saying everything we can and cannot do. Think about all the industries that would open up even if HEMP (not marijuana) was legal. That alone would be a huge benefit, and I think that'd be even a smaller difference than full marijuana legalization. 



If drugs are expensive, now people have to cheat and steal to get money for those drugs. If they're expensive, it'll also be a very competitive market, making it more dangerous. If drugs are cheap, dealers make nothing, and will have to move on to something that does make money. (Most likely another illegal drug)


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## medical.grow (Jan 9, 2010)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...


 
If it is decriminalize marijuana to smoke, you still cant leagaly grow it. The idea that perfect blunts will over throw the local growers is a joke. everyone wants tax free marijuana. Fighting the "real war on drugs" is a noble idea, to bad the real importers are the government. Not only do they make huge profts, but imprisoning the people has become a very profitable buisness. Even if marijuana is out right legalized, the majority of americans wont grow it for them selfs. How many people do you see farming their own food? Some major suppliers would end up in gass stations, but every person in america could start their own buisness. At that point the economy would grow


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## ataxia (Jan 11, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> I'm going to have to agree with that. Growing and selling weed is honest work. It only gets shady because it's illegal.
> 
> Having it become legal may lose you money but might save your freedom. Which is more important to you?
> 
> ...


Fckn right on!!


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## 420ever (Jan 11, 2010)

why would you not want to legalize it? think about it buy pot smoke it outside in the open freely, sounds pretty fucking awesome to fuck the rest of the economy i want to smoke my pot or grow it if i choose without worrying about being busted, on top of that you know if the gov. is goin to regulate to sell its not going to be some potent ass bud so the need for good ass dank is still gonna be there for all the dealers


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## Katatawnic (Jan 11, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> I'm going to have to agree with that. Growing and selling weed is honest work. It only gets shady because it's illegal.
> 
> Having it become legal may lose you money but might save your freedom. Which is more important to you?
> 
> ...


Couldn't have said it better myself!


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## Dingus Con (Jan 13, 2010)

"...stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt.." Like they haven't already? "CHAOS!!!" i thought 2012 was the new Y2K, not medical marijuana. Ridiculous. "US continues to flourish like it does today..." really? flourish? really though? a bad choice of words maybe. im not sold by your statements. lol. competing with store-bought, pre-rolled dubes? you growers better get rolling if you want my bizz....


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## Lucius Vorenus (Jan 14, 2010)

Definately vote for LEGALIZATION, if thats not on the ballot then Decriminalization. 

Like someon said previously, the benefits of legalization far outweigh any negative. The only negative would be for all the dispensaries that would go out of business.


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## Katatawnic (Jan 14, 2010)

I doubt the dispensaries that go with the flow of the changes (including keeping prices competitive, of course) would go out of business. I see that they'd be of just as much (if not even more) benefit to medical users who are unable to grow their own for whatever reason, because quality is much more important for medical treatment than it is for recreational use. We know that large companies putting out packs of pre-rolled joints won't have any more TLC (that's Tender Loving Care, not THC ) than large black market commercial ops do - and likely much less - whereas small personal growers and dispensary growers put all the TLC they can into their plants and then some.

Even if legalizing would eventually mean that buying pot at corner stores doesn't cost me any more than it does to grow my own, I'll still continue my gardening until my body gives out and won't allow me to do it anymore, and then I'll turn my grows over to my son... because I not only want, but need, to be guaranteed of the utmost quality for my daily pain management. I won't rely on big companies willing to forsake quality for quantity, and neither will the majority of medical users.


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## Dan Kone (Jan 14, 2010)

Dingus Con said:


> competing with store-bought, pre-rolled dubes? you growers better get rolling if you want my bizz....


Challenge excepted


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## Dan Kone (Jan 14, 2010)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> The only negative would be for all the dispensaries that would go out of business.


I'm not so sure about that. They'd be able to open their doors to the general public and benefit from the increased business. 

They'll have a huge head start on anyone trying to move in on them since they already have their infrastructure in place and big businesses trying to move in on them will be starting from scratch. 

I think it's more likely that the dispensaries become those big businesses. I see them as the biggest benefactors of legalization.


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## Dan Kone (Jan 14, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> Even if legalizing would eventually mean that buying pot at corner stores doesn't cost me any more than it does to grow my own,



I don't think it will. It won't at first for sure. The way the California legalization bills are all structured cannabis will still be available at dispensaries only. The difference being those dispensaries would now be open to non-medical users.


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## hightyde27 (Jan 14, 2010)

It's not that hard, on a public forum, to start a misinformation campaign. I'll look into it because I think it's worth finding out whether you're being truthful or not, or some clever cop on his day off trying to confuse us dumb little stoners.
It is intriguing, tho. One of the last true American grass roots markets is going to be absorbed by the fed. I don't like the idea of the government doing anything inside our borders. piss off, I say.


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## Katatawnic (Jan 14, 2010)

This is true, Dan. Despite my previous post, I can still see that sooner or later they'd become those big businesses. Their feet are already in the door.


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## ford442 (Jan 14, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> I don't think it will. It won't at first for sure. The way the California legalization bills are all structured cannabis will still be available at dispensaries only. The difference being those dispensaries would now be open to non-medical users.


I think you will be able to buy at normal stores, they will probably just need a license.. I have never heard that it would be limited to dispensaries..


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## Katatawnic (Jan 14, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> I don't think it will. It won't at first for sure. The way the California legalization bills are all structured cannabis will still be available at dispensaries only. The difference being those dispensaries would now be open to non-medical users.


I know I didn't clarify well enough in my post, so I will now... that was only an "if" situation, used for comparison RE: cost vs. quality, etc. 



hightyde27 said:


> It's not that hard, on a public forum, to start a misinformation campaign. I'll look into it because I think it's worth finding out whether you're being truthful or not, or some clever cop on his day off trying to confuse us dumb little stoners.
> It is intriguing, tho. One of the last true American grass roots markets is going to be absorbed by the fed. I don't like the idea of the government doing anything inside our borders. piss off, I say.


Do you think the gov't isn't already "doing anything inside our borders" about this? I'd rather see them working with us (even if it's only partially to our satisfaction) than against us.

BTW, most cops would rather not have to deal with us dumb little stoners at all. I was raised by cops, my brothers-in-law are cops, I've known several more cops personally throughout my life. None of them care much about pot at all, and when they're off duty you can light up right in front of them and they don't bat an eyelash. Most cops have this attitude about pot, and they'd be happier not to have to deal with prohibition B.S. when they could instead be focusing on rapes, murders, etc. You know, the real dangers to our society.  (Barring DEA and "specialized" areas of law enforcement, as well as a few local "gung ho" cops; but they're still the minority.)


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## Katatawnic (Jan 14, 2010)

I haven't heard that either, Ford. That part did throw me a bit.


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## Dan Kone (Jan 14, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> I haven't heard that either, Ford. That part did throw me a bit.


The bill was written by a dispensary owner. It's to be expected that he protects his own interests. 

I asked them if this bill meant that cannabis could be sold at pharmacies/liquor stores and he said "no, it keeps the dispensary model in place and will only be available at dispensaries."

It also changes dispensaries allowing consumption on the premises including possible on site food preparation and consumption (possibly including restaurants with cannabis food inside dispensaries).


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## ford442 (Jan 14, 2010)

ok - i think we are talking about two different things - AB390 was started by S.F. councilman Tom Ammiano and is for full legalization, taxation, regulation and education for cannabis.. There are three voter initiatives that do similar things..


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## Dan Kone (Jan 14, 2010)

ford442 said:


> ok - i think we are talking about two different things - AB390 was started by S.F. councilman Tom Ammiano and is for full legalization, taxation, regulation and education for cannabis.. There are three voter initiatives that do similar things..


AB390 and Tax and Regulate Cannabis 2010 are virtually the same as far as I can tell. According to the newscast I saw, Ammiano does not plan to reintroduce AB390 until after the November elections.

There were 3 voter initiatives, but it looks like Tax and Regulate is the only one that will be on the ballot.


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## Star7827 (Jan 14, 2010)

Brody.Will.Grow.Thee said:


> we should not legalize it, then have everyone who smokes be open and casual about it. they cant arrest all of us!!


I compleatly agree, if they give me the chance to vote on it i will marijuana should be legal and for those of you that say it shouldent because your gonna loose a buck, get over and get a real job until then be happy with what ya got.


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## Dan Kone (Jan 14, 2010)

Star7827 said:


> get a real job until then be happy with what ya got.


Growing marijuana can be a real job. People are just concerned that they will lose that job if it's legalized. It's an understandable concern to an extent. 

But legalization is the right thing to do, so I'm in favor of it despite it possibly being against my own financial interests.


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## xyla (Jan 18, 2010)

i would vote for it if i lived in the uk


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## jonbobsmith (Jan 19, 2010)

if you did watch the union then you should know exactly why decriminalization is stupid and doesnt do anything.
if you are going to be against mmj, be against because it will forever label marijuana as a drug, not as a plant and an herb like it actually is.
businesses will not go into "CHAOS" because that money that they make will still come in. we will always need growers and if it becomes a corporation thing, then we will need a whole new company and that will create un-heard of revenue.
you are the stupid one.


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## Resinator420 (Jan 19, 2010)

The whole point of the union was to show retards like you that decriminalization is actually a way better way to go but obviously you didnt pay much attention


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## smerfo (Jan 20, 2010)

Fuck that shit, get this motherfucker legalized!


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## strain stalker (Jan 20, 2010)

Decriminalization!


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## greensister (Jan 20, 2010)

Star7827 said:


> I compleatly agree, if they give me the chance to vote on it i will marijuana should be legal and for those of you that say it shouldent because your gonna loose a buck, get over and get a real job until then be happy with what ya got.


 
You mean you completely disagree.

Because, yes they can arrest us all. One at a time.


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## jonbobsmith (Jan 20, 2010)

in the union they actually say, " if you think about it decriminalization doesn't make much sense" THEY ACTUALLY SAY THOSE WORDS!
what am i missing?


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## Swill (Jan 27, 2010)

dontexist21 said:


> Everything that you say about legalization of marijuana is false. Legalization of marijuana will actually lead to MORE jobs AND less people being thrown in jail. In your argument, which I find ill informed, you state that 90% of money created in the United States comes from the marijuana industry. This is wrong, there is no way that this could be true since most of our economy in some way shape and form is actually fueled by the major corporations. Unless Ford is creating cars that run on hemp, there is no way that this company is profiting from the sale of marijuana to support these claims.
> 
> If you imagine a small town in America, one which has mostly American made cars you will see that 99% of those people do not acquire their income from the Black Market. This hypothetical town can be seen as a representation for the rest of America in terms of what they buy and where the money goes to and circulates in the rest of the economy. Now take your drug dealers in the economy, some of them might acquire their product by growing it themselves. While this might be a few people, it will be a minority of people. Most of the dealers will acquire their product from a larger distributer. This weed will most likely come from Mexican drug cartels, or some other gang affiliated entity. Most of the time the money that they acquire does not go back in the economy, it usually get stashed away, where it will later be used to fund other CRIMINAL enterprises.
> 
> ...


Basically everything I was going write about this topic has already been written. I agree with the quoted post above and completely disagree with the author of this thread. 

Legalize marijuana so I can finally become a pot farmer without fear of going to jail.


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## CrackerJax (Jan 27, 2010)

Well, the OP is clearly off his rocker. Pay him no mind.


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## tombgreen3 (Feb 2, 2010)

good argument but did you think that if we aren't buying weed from the dealers we would have more money and buy our weed from stores with tax and we would have extra money because it wouldn't be as expensive therefor we would be buying more of every day things and the economy would boom. instead of one dealer buying every day supplies every stoner in wherever they legalize it would be...does this make sense to you?

Just a quick argument to one of your statements.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 2, 2010)

The dealers spend your money in the economy so it's already in there.... no gain.


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## figtree (Feb 3, 2010)

This is funny, dont legalize it so the dealers can still make their money? 
how can there be any good argument from the dealer point of view on legalization, it is illegal to deal illegal drugs, and this applies to marijauna. if your not medical you are illegal, and if your selling and not a caregiver, your illegal.

Just to let you know, dealers sell prescription drugs too, and these are legal for the people prescribed it. yet dealers still sell them. think this could apply to marijauna as well when its legalized? for the dealers.

I like it rough there cracker....... LOL 
Definetly llike the new pic in your sig. 
Fig


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## shepj (Feb 3, 2010)

figtree said:


> This is funny, dont legalize it so the dealers can still make their money?
> how can there be any good argument from the dealer point of view on legalization, it is illegal to deal illegal drugs, and this applies to marijauna. if your not medical you are illegal, and if your selling and not a caregiver, your illegal.


The only argument I can see there is by going through local dealers, they put money into the local economy that may not have been present before. Not to mention the government is able to have police getting paid (for looking for illegal weed), arrest people, and collect taxes from illegal marijuana. Also, the pharmaceutical industry (I would imagine), does not want to see it legalized. So there are a couple of standpoints I guess.



figtree said:


> Just to let you know, dealers sell prescription drugs too, and these are legal for the people prescribed it. yet dealers still sell them. think this could apply to marijauna as well when its legalized? for the dealers.


This is a different argument. This is supply and demand. 

If you notice different areas have different prices (for everything), it is the same idea. Especially with prescription drugs! Things that are easily prescribed or are easily accessed are inexpensive (e.g., vicodin).

If marijuana were to become legalized, the supply would be overwhelming and the demand would (more than likely) not meet the supply (as many people will probably see the legalization as an opportunity to grow/sell, and see it as a "get rich quick" scheme and turn to it, whereas the demand would more than likely stay the same or lower, which would in turn, drop the prices).

Just my .02


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## CrackerJax (Feb 3, 2010)

Well, unless the money is being shipped back to Mexico.... all drug money is eventually spent on guns.


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## connorbrown (Feb 3, 2010)

But the thing that you guys are leaving out is INDUSTRIAL marijuana. Our economy would boom with industrial hemp. We could export so much more materials without destroying other companies. (3 acres of hemp will save 9 acres of trees.)
And they would stop spending our tax money to build prisons so people that smoke pot can go to. 

LEGALIZE MARIJUANA IN 2010


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## PlantManBee (Feb 3, 2010)

Resinator420 said:


> Cool nice redfish by the way.


that's supposed to be red HERRING! LMAO


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## Engineer (Feb 3, 2010)

Wont decriminalization come before legalization anyway? Also, use spell check because you do have a good point but your post is barely legible. If you want people to take you seriously then be serious.


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## shepj (Feb 3, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Well, unless the money is being shipped back to Mexico.... all drug money is eventually spent on guns.


I was simply throwing out ideas, I am pro-legalization (just to see tax money better spent and a better legal plan initiated).

In my area a lot of the money goes to local growers, which in turn pays for food/bills/recreational stuff/etc. I do see what you're saying about Mexico though.

If we decrim, maybe it will eliminate some of the drugs coming into the US... hard to tell.



Engineer said:


> Wont decriminalization come before legalization anyway? Also, use spell check because you do have a good point but your post is barely legible. If you want people to take you seriously then be serious.


In some states, yes. My state did not pass for medical nor for decriminalization, but they have a bill in action for legalization. It just depends on the state I guess. As to federally.. I am not the right person to ask, I really do not know.


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## Ap0c0leS (Feb 3, 2010)

Lol i would like to see a link for your statistics or this is just a work of fiction


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## shepj (Feb 3, 2010)

Ap0c0leS said:


> Lol i would like to see a link for your statistics or this is just a work of fiction


What is this in reference to?


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## gopherbuddah (Feb 10, 2010)

Where in the hell did anyone get the idea that civilization would fail after leagalization. If anything legal buds would stimulate the economy. All the money spent on this so called war on pot could be used for other things like health care, education, and many other things that are going through lack of funding that the government wastes on trying to keep marijuana out of our hands. Farmers in the midwest that are being paid to not grow crops, due to produce being cheeper else where could start growing again. The thousands of people arrested annualy on marijuana charges would no longer be a part of a prison over crowding problem that is seen no where is in the world other than the good ol u.s. of a. To say that company's would go under because people would stop buying things if leaglization were to happen is laughable. This sounds like a rant from someone who depends on having a monoply on a product that is currently unavailable easily. If pot heads are spending money on random shit is not going to stop. If anything there will be more pot heads than ever buying random shit. If it's easily available than that means more people will be smoking, meaning more people walking around stoned buying shit. If anything the economy would be in great shape. I'm sure bootleggers tried to convince people pf the same thing during the prohibition, because they saw money being taken out of thier pocket. Stop trying to cause a panic and get a job, make money the old fashioned way, and grow on the side for personal smoke, like I'm guessing most of us are.


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## HellaHello (Feb 10, 2010)

I will vote for legalization till the day i die. And your numbers don't make any sense, just saying.


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## patlpp (Feb 10, 2010)

"Hemp stalks can be converted to ethanol (with about 20% efficiency by fermentation of hydrolyzed cellulose), into methane (by digestion of the stalks, with 50% efficiency), into producer gas (by thermal gasification at 85% efficiency) and into methanol (by pyrolysis of the stalks, or from producer gas). It is estimated that hemp biomass can yield an equivalent of 1,300 gal/acre of vehicle fuel. Chopped stalks also can be used directly as a boiler fuel. "

http://www.rexresearch.com/hhusb/hh11stcr.htm

Oil companies do not want anything to do with marijuana/hemp grown large scale.


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## hippiepudz024 (Feb 10, 2010)

resinator420 said:


> if they were to legilize marijuana in the us ( that is were im talking about) the government would be creating a new regulated market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. Who can compete with perfectly rolld up doobys of the best shit???? Can you???...... Didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the us from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. Legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, chaos.
> 
> ...


















you just got done watching the union


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## TreeOfLiberty (Feb 11, 2010)

Legalize , forget decriminalization, decriminalization still brings with it tickets and fines, it still brings law enforcement into the equation.

We WANT THE COPS OUT OF IT altogether! The OP's wrong on the idea that the economy will collapse. 

H.B. 1134 is a bill in Virginia that is before the House trying to make Marijuana Decriminalized ...but get this ... instead of going to jail for possession you could still be fined up to $500, ...no way ..nuh-uh, not good enough. 

$500 ??? !!! NO !!! The court system still trying to make money off of us, what happens when you don't pay that $500? Your ass is picked up on a warrant, thats what !

Some people may think that decriminalization is better than nothing but remember people, before 1937 men and women used Marijuana as they pleased with no repercussion, no scrutiny , and its past time we get back to that, we need to push harder than ever for straight out legalization as this plant should've NEVER been made illegal in the first place.

They in the Govt. can cry "gateway drug" and "save the children" all they want, it is them who have ruined the lives of "the children" and us by putting us in jail for the past 73 years.

NO DECRIMINALIZATION!!! straight out legalization !!! Take the fines out of it, take the penalties out of it damn it! 

Can't you see all the cops that would start writing tickets for possession instead of cuffing the person, cops would have writers cramps from all the tickets they would be writing out, then naturally...most people would refuse to pay the ticket, then what? Cops start going out to arrest them for unpaid fines.... you see? Decriminalization would still be set up to keep the drug war going.

Instead of going to jail for possession, people would start going to jail for unpaid fines, and the court people would be "well their not being locked up for possession but for unpaid fines".

Decriminalization IS NO GOOD !!! We need to take law enforcement and the courts slap out of it, and push for straight out legalization like it was before 1937 !!!


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## CrackerJax (Feb 11, 2010)

The ONLY reason the cops are on it is because WE have turned weed into a high (<---) dollar item. 

Master & Commander ... "their greed will be their undoing"


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## juganja (Feb 11, 2010)

I know this is my first post but I had to respond this....first off your vote is your own personal opion and right and I'll your vote either way! Second if weed is legalized it will happen in california FIRST, and the reason why I bring that up is because if u live in a state where the laws wete less lenient then of course you would say Yes to legalize it because you don't even have the freedom to walk into a cannibuscub and buy some bomb ass shit like I can...legally(albeit not federally). When I was sent to jail in Kentucky for some swag weed I wished that it as legal! But now that I just spent Ten grand on growing equiptment I will vote NO...because that same pound that I sell to cannibus clubs for three g's (give or take) that is then sold by the clubs for doubled will only he worth 1500! And guess what the clubs will still make twice 3000..So since its pretty much legal for me already in california I will vote no.TY.. Forgive me for the improper grammer or spellin but hopefully u get my drift. Us the growers will be the ones screwed Unless u just grow for personal use or have a large wharehouse of course if u have enuf money to buy a offee shop or cannibus club. But if your in some conservative state or country you probably won't understand anyway..either way good luck to all you growers d smokers and thanks for some of thw advice I've read on here..smoke witchu lata!


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## TreeOfLiberty (Feb 11, 2010)

Juganja and his GREED over money. It should be about THE MOVEMENT, Damn all these Dispensaries and their blood sucking fiending for dollars. I'm for the ailing people and ending their insane prices, I live in Colorado and also an MMJ grower for myself. These dispensaries are charging street prices for herb, damn that shit.

I want to see Cannabis straight out legalized and I want to see top shelf grade "A" one toke herb selling for $100 per OZ.!!! and it would drop that low maybe even lower with full scale legalization because all the illegalities would be removed and even more people would get into growing it with full scale legalization.

Damn the growers who have dollar signs in their eyes. FREE THIS PLANT and damn the greedy people. Wouldn't that be something...one day a person wants a stash but doesn't grow and goes to their local pot shop and buys an ounce of super herb for $50 because its like going to a liquor store and there everywhere because so many people would get into mass production and prices would D-R-O-P like a rock because of legalization.

These dispensaries and growers who are doing it for profit make me sick. All its going to take is ONE STATE to legalize it, then the domino effect happens and other states will fall in. I love this plant and the happiness it brings not only to me but other people, it should be easily affordable to ALL people, and I'm talking Cannabis Cup super strains.

Also all the other things made from the tall growing hemp varieties like rope,fabric,clothes,paints,fuel,building materials and overall helping the environment. 

What is the famous quote..."The love of money is the root of all evil"?

LEGALIZE FOR THE PEOPLE and stop thinking about getting rich off struggling people , you damn greedy dispensaries and greedy care takers !!!


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## greenboiii420 (Feb 11, 2010)

I doubt the economy will collapse from weed being legalized. Drug dealers might lose their jobs(big loss there). If it was legalized it would create a lot more LEGAL jobs, that pay taxes unlike drug dealers. Also, who the fuck did the survey that 80% of the cash earned in business comes from marijuana in one way or another. How the fuck can you even tell if it did? Sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me. Even if you are right, and the economy did collapse I'd still be happy because I can smoke weed without worrying about being arrested for it.


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## KingKush22 (Feb 11, 2010)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...


i personally think if the government legalized it the herb would be swagadelict and people would rely on getting top shelf which is where we come into the picture as my myself live in so cal ...peace , love , nature ... prop215 , sb420 , mmp legalization , but to each there own thats my opinion , no disrespect meant . peace and happy grows ...


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## shepj (Feb 12, 2010)

greenboiii420 said:


> Even if you are right, and the economy did collapse I'd still be happy because I can smoke weed without worrying about being arrested for it.


If the economy collapses, you have no money to smoke weed with, regardless of if you get arrested or not. Also, if the economy collapses, the last thing on your mind should be smoking weed.. stabilizing your financial situation to provide for yourself/your family should come before getting high.


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## greenishthumb (Feb 12, 2010)

After reading the first post, which pretty much called anyone with common sence and a love of that good ol green an idiot, I got all smoked up and ready to call this guy out. But then I read 20+ pages of u guys tearing him to shreads, so I figure ill go the other way and u guys can hate me all you want.
Maybe legalization isn't that great after all is said and done. Believe it or not most "drug dealers" who u guys say are criminal and live in the slums (lmao at that one) don't at all. They're regular ppl like you and me that enjoy making a profit on one of there favorite things, weed. Back to resinator point about weed money in the economy, its obv. Not as high as he says it is (or as high as he is), but he still makes a decent point. Dealers don't stash money away, they spend it. If uve got the money to make ur life more comfortable, u do so and dealers are no exception. I would say millions of ppl in the US sell weed, at least to there friends, or have sold weed. All those ppl are helping our local economies with their petty profits. In a time of reccession where every little bit helps, learning that selling an ounce a week could feed you for 2 weeks, and improve ur standard of living wouldn't you? This is the choice that legalization takes away from us. If anyone has seen the tv show weeds (one of my favorites) they can see a clearly exaggerated version of what I'm talking about. For those of you in the dark on this great show, the main character sells weed around her suburban gated communtiy to make enough money for her family to live after her husband dies. if weed were legalized in her town, she wouldn't make any money. This is what could happen to the thousands of ppl depending on income from selling to make ends meet. Its not like great jobs are everywhere, but combine a working class job with weed sales you got a comfortable style of life.
We don't need legalization from a smokers standpoint. Decriminalization would suffice for now as long as medicinal marijuanna is also legalzied. Even now, its not like you can't smoke, it illegal yeah, but anyone who can't get weed I feel sorry for, cuz its everywhere. Smoke in private, keep it concealed, and do ur friend a favor and buy off him. You might not realize but u just bought him dinner, or maybe helped him out with rent. Either way its better than ur money goin to that guy in the slums who just stashes and stashes his money away to buy guns and other stereotypical things, right? Lol


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## greenishthumb (Feb 12, 2010)

After reading the first post, which pretty much called anyone with common sence and a love of that good ol green an idiot, I got all smoked up and ready to call this guy out. But then I read 20+ pages of u guys tearing him to shreads, so I figure ill go the other way and u guys can hate me all you want.
Maybe legalization isn't that great after all is said and done. Believe it or not most "drug dealers" who u guys say are criminal and live in the slums (lmao at that one) don't at all. They're regular ppl like you and me that enjoy making a profit on one of there favorite things, weed. Back to resinator point about weed money in the economy, its obv. Not as high as he says it is (or as high as he is), but he still makes a decent point. Dealers don't stash money away, they spend it. If uve got the money to make ur life more comfortable, u do so and dealers are no exception. I would say millions of ppl in the US sell weed, at least to there friends, or have sold weed. All those ppl are helping our local economies with their petty profits. In a time of reccession where every little bit helps, learning that selling an ounce a week could feed you for 2 weeks, and improve ur standard of living wouldn't you? This is the choice that legalization takes away from us. If anyone has seen the tv show weeds (one of my favorites) they can see a clearly exaggerated version of what I'm talking about. For those of you in the dark on this great show, the main character sells weed around her suburban gated communtiy to make enough money for her family to live after her husband dies. if weed were legalized in her town, she wouldn't make any money. This is what could happen to the thousands of ppl depending on income from selling to make ends meet. Its not like great jobs are everywhere, but combine a working class job with weed sales you got a comfortable style of life.
We don't need legalization from a smokers standpoint. Decriminalization would suffice for now as long as medicinal marijuanna is also legalzied. Even now, its not like you can't smoke, it illegal yeah, but anyone who can't get weed I feel sorry for, cuz its everywhere. Smoke in private, keep it concealed, and do ur friend a favor and buy off him. You might not realize but u just bought him dinner, or maybe helped him out with rent. Either way its better than ur money goin to that guy in the slums who just stashes and stashes his money away to buy guns and other stereotypical things, right? Lol


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## greenishthumb (Feb 12, 2010)

greenboiii420 said:


> If it was legalized the only people losing jobs are drug dealers. They don't pay any income tax anyways they might as well be illegal immigrants.


Wow, glad I missed this before I started ranting, I think this could be one of the most ridiculous thing I've heard. 
First off, unless ur an skilled grower, or a very light smoker, you've had a dealer at one point or another, and he or she risked their ass to provide you with a much needed service. Dealers are the most under appreciated ppl by far. Maybe I've been lucky but I've never had to go through super sketchy deals or shady dealers, just good ppl trying to provide ppl with what they want. And honestly how many ppl have met dealers who don't work a real job or go to school or something? I haven't, so all my dealers pay taxes in their "real jobs" and aren't tryin to evade the system like the illegal immigrants do, there's just not enough money workin for minnimum wage. Ppl can't live like that. Don't hate on them just cuz what they do is illegal. Guess what, we all break the law, and the govt should stop spending money on bullshit before they try and take money out of the pockets of hard working americans


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## shepj (Feb 12, 2010)

greenishthumb said:


> Maybe legalization isn't that great after all is said and done. Believe it or not most "drug dealers" who u guys say are criminal and live in the slums (lmao at that one) don't at all. They're regular ppl like you and me that enjoy making a profit on one of there favorite things, weed.


I do not think anyone really gives a shit if anyone wants to sell weed. Drug dealers do not just stop at selling weed (for the most part). They are also involved with some sort of harder substance. 

Plus, a lot of dealers do not care how old you are they will sell to you. That is absolute horse shit, marijuana IS a drug.. I am not opposed to it being used in responsible situations, and by people who can make responsible decisions. Kids do not need to be smoking weed! That is all there is to it! People who are going to go driving around under the influence, do not need to be smokign weed!

If the dealers were half intelligent about their products and their buyers, I think more people might care about their financial stand point. The other thing, why can't drug dealers just go get an education and an actual occupation instead of selling drugs? 

Just food for thought 



greenishthumb said:


> We don't need legalization from a smokers standpoint. Decriminalization would suffice for now as long as medicinal marijuanna is also legalzied. Even now, its not like you can't smoke, it illegal yeah, but anyone who can't get weed I feel sorry for, cuz its everywhere. Smoke in private, keep it concealed, and do ur friend a favor and buy off him.


I am pretty with you here. I do not see the big need for legalization really. I want to see medical marijuana legalized, but beyond that it doesn't really matter to me. 

Some people are so willing to say marijuana should be legal and then turn around and spread the propaganda and taboo related to other substances without knowing shit about them.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 12, 2010)

As long as weed is illegal it will stay mixed in with other harder drugs....legalization will clean up weeds rep and allow it become mainstream. 

If you want to win over parents, this is the angle....protect their kids...and they'll respond.


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## shepj (Feb 12, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> As long as weed is illegal it will stay mixed in with other harder drugs....legalization will clean up weeds rep and allow it become mainstream.
> 
> If you want to win over parents, this is the angle....protect their kids...and they'll respond.


Lower the drinking or smoking age, kids will have easier access to it. Make marijuana legal kids will have easier access to it. 

If regulation and legalization is a serious idea, it actually needs to be regulated, and those regulations need to be enforced.

Have you guys seen the Supreme Court's ruling stating "*No Limit on Corporate Spending on Elections*". Good luck getting medical (or decriminilized/legalized) marijuana when pharmaceutical companies can buy representatives to say no.


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## Dan Kone (Feb 12, 2010)

shepj said:


> Lower the drinking or smoking age, kids will have easier access to it. Make marijuana legal kids will have easier access to it.


When I was in highschool it was easier for me to get cannabis than alcohol. Right now I'd say pretty much every kid in America could score some bud if they wanted to. 

I don't think it'll make it any easier. There is already market saturation. 



shepj said:


> . Good luck getting medical (or decriminilized/legalized) marijuana when pharmaceutical companies can buy representatives to say no.


Actually the biggest spenders when it comes to opposing legalization are not the pharmaceutical industry or alcohol industry. It's the prison industry. They hands down fight legalization harder than anyone else. Legalization means a lot less people in jail which kills their profits. 

The prison guards union in particular are the biggest opponents. Legalization means guards will lose their jobs.


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## ford442 (Feb 12, 2010)

i still think - you cannot go by the false assumption that our current prohibition laws stop even one person from ingesting weed if they so choose.. as stated - it is everywhere.. remember again - there aren't people dealing cans of beer at school all the time - a few i admit - but, so many fewer than those who deal in weed because alcohol is not a black market commodity.. thank god...


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## shepj (Feb 12, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> Actually the biggest spenders when it comes to opposing legalization are not the pharmaceutical industry or alcohol industry. It's the prison industry. They hands down fight legalization harder than anyone else. Legalization means a lot less people in jail which kills their profits.
> 
> The prison guards union in particular are the biggest opponents. Legalization means guards will lose their jobs.


How do you figure? 

Let's say ~750,000 people are arrested (at the rate of $50,000/person/year incarceration).

You think that holds a candle to the medical uses of marijuana? Let me give you an idea of what I am talking about...

*Medical Marijuana (potential uses)*:

Nausea
Vomiting
Premenstrual Syndrome
Unintentional Weight Loss
anorexia nervosa
Lack of Appetite
Muscular Hypertonicity
Neurogenic Pain
Movement Disorders
Asthma
Glaucoma
Inflammatory Bowel Disease (Crohn's Disease and Ulcerative Colitis)
Migraines
Fibromyalgia
Multiple Sclerosis (relieves symptoms)
Spinal Cord Injuries
Tourette Syndrome (via reducing vocal and motor tics)
Obsessive&#8211;Compulsive Disorders
Alcohol Abuse (useful in treating)
Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder
Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis
Collagen-Induced Arthritis
Atherosclerosis
Rheumatoid Arthritis
Autism
Bipolar Disorder
Childhood Mental Disorders
Depression
Colorectal Cancer
Dystonia
Diabetic Retinopathy
Epilepsy
Digestive Diseases
Gliomas
Hepatitis C
Huntington's Disease
Hypertension
Urinary Incontinence
Leukemia
Skin Tumors
Morning Sickness
Methicillin-Resistant Staphylococcus Aureus (MRSA)
Parkinson's Disease
Pruritus
Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)
Sickle-Cell Disease
Sleep Apnea
Edema
Radiolopathy
Muscle Spasms
Multiple Sclerosis
Degenerative Bone/Disc Disease
Insomnia


Wow.. my fingers hurt. So this is just what I have found (within a few minutes at that) that marijuana can be used for, WITHOUT the side effects of prescription medication.

Still think it is the Prison Industry and not the Pharmaceutical Industry?


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## Dan Kone (Feb 12, 2010)

shepj said:


> Still think it is the Prison Industry and not the Pharmaceutical Industry?


Yes. I'm sure of it. This is not my opinion. It is a fact. 

I'm just telling you the reality of the situation. No one is apposing legalization as much as the prison industry. They are spending the most money and creating the most fuss about it. 

Maybe the pharmaceutical industry has more to lose in the long term, I don't know. But the #1 opponent of legalization at this time is the prison industry with police/sheriffs a distant second. No other special interest group comes close to these two right now. 

Maybe that will change as November gets closer, but as of now that is the way it is and according to the people doing opposition research it's projected to stay that way.

Call Tom Ammiano's office or Oaksterdam university and they'll tell you the exact same thing.


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## Dan Kone (Feb 12, 2010)

shepj said:


> Wow.. my fingers hurt. So this is just what I have found (within a few minutes at that) that marijuana can be used for, WITHOUT the side effects of prescription medication.


The thing about that is you're projecting a lot of additional use of marijuana if it becomes legal. I'm sure there will be an increase, but not a large permanent one. 

Most people do have access to marijuana now.

Yes, marijauna doesn't have the same side effects as perscription drugs for treating these same symptoms. But it does have another side effect, it gets you high. It's not for everyone. Most people can't handle smoking a joint before work, but can take a pill that doesn't get you high. 

Legalization will certainly have an impact on the pham industry, but not all people are going to choose marijuana over their old pharm's.


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## socalsinner (Feb 13, 2010)

I am a part of a Cooperative in California and I an tell you that if we legalize marijuana it will bring higher standards to the market. You will know what you are smoking , prices will drop and selection will increase. I know for a fact that most dispensaries do not test their bud for chemicals or pesticides. Some of the strongest pesticides they use on pot are banned in California but... we can still buy them online and use them here in Cali. Long beach is trying to force growers to test each crop and track the crop too. If an illegal pesticide comes up in testing the crop or plant would have to be destroyed...... Good luck getting that type of quality control now. Right now law enforcement is harrassing growers large and small if its legal we will have an extra layer of protection . Pull your head out of th sand and take a closer look at reality!


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## CrackerJax (Feb 13, 2010)

shepj said:


> Lower the drinking or smoking age, kids will have easier access to it. Make marijuana legal kids will have easier access to it.
> 
> If regulation and legalization is a serious idea, it actually needs to be regulated, and those regulations need to be enforced.
> 
> Have you guys seen the Supreme Court's ruling stating "*No Limit on Corporate Spending on Elections*". Good luck getting medical (or decriminilized/legalized) marijuana when pharmaceutical companies can buy representatives to say no.


Who ever has problems getting weed?  The only time a person can't get it is if the area is dry. It's everywhere now...

But if you REALLY care about ur kidz...u'll realize that when the kids do pick some up...because it is illegal...the person selling it to them might very well also have cocaine, acid, heroin...etc.

If it is legalized...ur kid will get it probably still, but from sources that do NOT also sell hard drugs. 

It would be much safer for kids if it was legal.... by far.


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## shepj (Feb 13, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> Yes. I'm sure of it. This is not my opinion. It is a fact.
> 
> I'm just telling you the reality of the situation. No one is apposing legalization as much as the prison industry. They are spending the most money and creating the most fuss about it.
> 
> Call Tom Ammiano's office or Oaksterdam university and they'll tell you the exact same thing.


Can you show me where you found this? 

I was looking through a statistic (granted off topic) that stated if Ibogaine was used to treat opiate/opioid addiction/withdrawl.. the pharmaceutical industry could lose up to 40% of their annual income.

Think about it... 

Long term Opiate/Opioid use = Addiction. So do people really need them for their pain? Or are people addicted, and because of the addiction they "feel" pain.




Dan Kone said:


> Most people do have access to marijuana now.


Yes, but with the stigma and legal situation (along with drug screening), people with legitimate medical problems can not afford to use it.



Dan Kone said:


> Yes, marijauna doesn't have the same side effects as perscription drugs for treating these same symptoms. But it does have another side effect, it gets you high. It's not for everyone. Most people can't handle smoking a joint before work, but can take a pill that doesn't get you high.


So I take it you have never been prescribed:

Opiates
Opioids
Benzodiazepines
Sympathomimetics
Barbiturates
Eugeroics

All of those make you high, and there are probably hundreds of drugs in those categories as well.

Who is to say eventually we won't isolate cannabinoids to be used medicinally? So instead of getting high, it simply carries out a specific mechanism.

For shits and giggles.. I am sure most people would take a small buzz over the side effects that most substances carry. Hell, you end up taking a prescription medication for a problem, and another one to combat the side effects of the first one (and so on and so forth); whereas marijuana does not carry these. 

Also, marijuana can potentially offer cures... why would a pharmaceutical industry want cures? There would be no repeating customers, no more money.



Dan Kone said:


> Legalization will certainly have an impact on the pham industry, but not all people are going to choose marijuana over their old pharm's.


Come back and tell me this in a few years.



CrackerJax said:


> If it is legalized...ur kid will get it probably still, but from sources that do NOT also sell hard drugs.
> 
> It would be much safer for kids if it was legal.... by far.


I like the way you put that. Very good point. +rep


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## Dan Kone (Feb 13, 2010)

shepj said:


> Can you show me where you found this?


A friend of mine works on the Tax and Regulate Bill doing opposition research. 



shepj said:


> I was looking through a statistic (granted off topic) that stated if Ibogaine was used to treat opiate/opioid addiction/withdrawl.. the pharmaceutical industry could lose up to 40% of their annual income.
> 
> Think about it...


I'm not disagreeing with you that the pharmaceutical industry has a lot to lose here. I'm just saying they aren't currently spending a lot of money to fight it. 

If they were fighting it hard, we'd know. They'd win. Legalization wouldn't be this popular if the pharm industry was apposing it. We'd be seeing massive misinformation campaigns. Maybe we will see that as the election gets closer. But right now we aren't.


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## greenboiii420 (Feb 17, 2010)

shepj said:


> If the economy collapses, you have no money to smoke weed with, regardless of if you get arrested or not. Also, if the economy collapses, the last thing on your mind should be smoking weed.. stabilizing your financial situation to provide for yourself/your family should come before getting high.


Why do you need money to smoke weed with? If the economy collapses chances are it isn't getting fixed asap so you should become self dependent (grow your own food). In which case I can do while I am stoned.


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## Brycec (Feb 21, 2010)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...


 You musta been smoking some good shit to come up with that trainwreck.


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## Hazer blazer (Feb 26, 2010)

Brody.Will.Grow.Thee said:


> we should not legalize it, then have everyone who smokes be open and casual about it. they cant arrest all of us!!


You know that muva fucker 
This is are market, are turf, are shit.
Legalize it and fuck shops goin down shit creak lol its more the fact that dealers loose money init. we grow it so dont matter too us if its legal or not  we dont need a caffe we just pop open the curin jars .

keep it true, this isnt a drug like h or sniff. Its a life style, its pain relief for people with turminal illness such as ms. If they cant see and respect the true petential of this plant then fuck them .

Any1 disagree??????????


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## shepj (Feb 26, 2010)

Dear lord.. politicians die to hear pro-marijuana advocated speak with such professional grammar.


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## S P S (Feb 26, 2010)

i agree, i dont want it legalized. id rather go to my boy and get some fire or grow my own than go to the gas station and buy a pack of weed cigarettes that are gonna be taxed out the ass


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## wallycork (Feb 27, 2010)

S P S said:


> i agree, i dont want it legalized. id rather go to my boy and get some fire or grow my own than go to the gas station and buy a pack of weed cigarettes that are gonna be taxed out the ass


Are you serious. I suppose its what part of the world your in.
Im from Ireland and the only ready accessible weed is grit weed http://www.gritweed.co.uk/ . So for health sake i wish weed was legalised over here, i cant imagine it happeing though


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## ford442 (Feb 27, 2010)

i think your dealer would be happier selling openly online and all around town without any fear.. he might only make half as much but, like you said - not everyone wants the chopped up pre-rolls from the store - there will still be tons of demand for local home grown product..


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## CrackerJax (Feb 27, 2010)

If weed is legalized....there won't be dealers. Business types will take over the marketing. 

Farmers will take over production.

Weed will be cheap ... Like it's supposed to be.


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## Ole Budheavy (Feb 27, 2010)

S P S said:


> i agree, i dont want it legalized. id rather go to my boy and get some fire or grow my own than go to the gas station and buy a pack of weed cigarettes that are gonna be taxed out the ass


What???

If its legal, you'd be able to grow it LEGALLY. Hello, legal is better than being fucked and put in jail. 

Just because the weed might suck if its handled by idiots and pre-rolled doesn't mean there won't be people still growing their own shit. 

It doesn't mean that you have to smoke that prerolled shit either. 

IT'S A MATTER OF PRIDE PEOPLE. Grow your own.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 27, 2010)

Legal can be framed in many ways and by many degrees. We'll see ... maybe.

But yes indeed, grow ur own. Don't feed the greed.


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## Kamen (Feb 28, 2010)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...




Dude that is bullshite! How come that shite doesn't happen in Amsterdam or rest of Europe! Yeah you just said bunch of bullshite to scare people. You need to chill out!


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## Ole Budheavy (Mar 4, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Legal can be framed in many ways and by many degrees. We'll see ... maybe.
> 
> But yes indeed, grow ur own. Don't feed the greed.


Yeah, just like the gray area the Netherlands hovers over. Many people aren't aware its illegal to cultivate cannabis indoors in the Netherlands.


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## shepj (Mar 4, 2010)

Ole Budheavy said:


> Many people aren't aware its illegal to cultivate cannabis indoors in the Netherlands.


Technically Cannabis is not legal in the Netherlands.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 4, 2010)

That's true enough. It is tolerated but the police always have discretion. They pull back on them now and again. 

I visited a friend up in Arnhem and she has a nice cottage house on an acre or so of land. Everything is regulated in the Nederlands....everything. I looked over her garden shed and recommended she expand it in a certain direction....she just laughed. That would take 5 years of paperwork and community approval....practically impossible, and definitely not worth the bother.

Still, I have looked at property over there.... it's still under consideration.


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## Ole Budheavy (Mar 4, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> That's true enough. It is tolerated but the police always have discretion. They pull back on them now and again.
> 
> I visited a friend up in Arnhem and she has a nice cottage house on an acre or so of land. Everything is regulated in the Nederlands....everything. I looked over her garden shed and recommended she expand it in a certain direction....she just laughed. That would take 5 years of paperwork and community approval....practically impossible, and definitely not worth the bother.
> 
> Still, I have looked at property over there.... it's still under consideration.



So she has a shed that she grows in? How large is the area?


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## CrackerJax (Mar 5, 2010)

No, she doesn't grow...  Her husband is a big wig at the Hague.


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## 420HAZE420 (Mar 5, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> No, she doesn't grow...  Her husband is a big wig at the Hague.


Vote for legalization or else your a stupid crackerjak.Bill 2254 will be up for voting this november to completely legalize cannabis, to grow, use, sell, and transport cannabis.And i did watch the union and dont give a hoot about the dealers getting rich off it becuase they are skimpig people out......Looks like your outa luck cracker


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## ford442 (Mar 5, 2010)

and now it is time for tonight's feature "*Do not vote for legalization" or "You are stupid" *brought to you by the good people at the DEA..


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## CrackerJax (Mar 6, 2010)

ford442 said:


> and now it is time for tonight's feature "*Do not vote for legalization" or "You are stupid" *brought to you by the good people at the DEA..



Them and the dealers who don't want to get a real job. 

420 Haze....by your last post.... you need to quit weed. It's affecting ur brain.


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## Katatawnic (Mar 7, 2010)

420HAZE420, you need to brush up on your reading comprehension. CJ hasn't once even implied to not vote for legalization. Quite the contrary.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 7, 2010)

A shining example of the publik skool system.


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## Katatawnic (Mar 7, 2010)

Not to be confused with the public school system, from which I escaped with a shred of intelligence still intact.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 7, 2010)

Exactatatatly....!


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## EmbraceTheMartian (Mar 8, 2010)

i just want weed to be decriminalized i dont care about legal. because regardless im going to smoke my weed and the only problem i have is i can face jail time for it.


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## NinjaOZDuce (Mar 9, 2010)

Yea I just dont wanna worry about piss tests and losing my job over it. It should have the same punishments as liquor. just dont be DUI and be over 18/21 years old. other then that it should not be a problem to grow or use. I dont sell so I dont care what regulations they put on sellers just as long as no one comes to kick in my door to search my house or I loose my job over it.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 9, 2010)

I think that is coming..... I really do.

The tests are quite unfair. I would love to see a test that reveals what prescriptions ppl have taken over the last 6 months. 

Heck 75% of the population would have to be laid off!

There is a double standard when it comes to weed.


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## Katatawnic (Mar 9, 2010)

From what I know, you rarely (if ever) get fired for legit prescriptions that can be documented... unless it's a cannabis prescription, of course.  I've had a couple of friends who truly needed MMJ for severe pain management, and had to quit using it and suffer instead so that they could work... never mind that they had their state issued MMJ cards.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 9, 2010)

Yes, legit prescription...true. But the greatest abuse going on out there is prescription drugs. No one checks for them. 

A real shotgun test would be too expensive for employers. 

Many years ago, I worked construction. This is when the drug testing started to get underway. I was concerned because I've been smoking weed since I was 12.  I am weed.

My boss who liked me, pulled me aside one day knowing I was concerned. He just simply told me they would only be testing the office personnel. I didn't say anything, but just gave him a look. He smiled knowingly and said... "what, you think we want to fire 75% of our crew?"


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## Katatawnic (Mar 9, 2010)

75% of his crew... he was no dummy!  Pretty great when your boss likes you, eh?


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## Katatawnic (Mar 9, 2010)




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## CrackerJax (Mar 9, 2010)

hahah right on point! Nice find....

yah, all of my bosses in my adult life have liked me. Why not? I ALWAYS arrived early, and was always eager to accomplish as much as possible. They will like you every time for that.

One time when I was hired, the boss provided everyone with a new work truck, but the condition was that every truck had to be back at the nursery each night, no exceptions.

Within 6 months ... I was an exception.


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## Katatawnic (Mar 9, 2010)

That's cause you're so exceptional!  

I've never really had a boss; always had a full-out teamwork career... I was lucky enough to be able to support myself with my passion and therapy: singing and performing.  However, there can be a lot of drama in bands, which can often be much harder to deal with than the meanest boss!


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## CrackerJax (Mar 9, 2010)

Music is a lot of hard work. Lots of emotion....goes with the passion.

One of my standard pieces of advice. Always follow your passion. If the money flows, great. if it doesn't, you still did what you loved. And that is SO much better than the reverse.

I've had years of NO MONEY, and I now have years of, yah know, enough money, and it doesn't really change you. Doing what you love is FAR more important.


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## Katatawnic (Mar 9, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Music is a lot of hard work. Lots of emotion....goes with the passion.
> 
> One of my standard pieces of advice. Always follow your passion. If the money flows, great. if it doesn't, you still did what you loved. And that is SO much better than the reverse.
> 
> I've had years of NO MONEY, and I now have years of, yah know, enough money, and it doesn't really change you. Doing what you love is FAR more important.


Indeed! But I miss all that hard work immensely, even the B.S. that can come with it. Hubby still plays nearly every weekend, out of both passion and need for the extra dough. Though I don't resent him for being able to go on without me (we met and immediately forged a deep friendship sharing our passion via music 15 yrs. ago, and spent several of those years working together off and on), I am still quite envious most of the time... while he's exhausted as hell, as gigging is currently his third job thanks to the freaking economy!  So I do try not to let the envy grow into that dreaded Green-Eyed Monster, because although he's still following his passion, he's running himself ragged because I can no longer work and he's been left to pick up the financial pieces... greener grass and all that jazz, eh? 

I certainly never got financially rich off of performing, but I was always able to keep a roof over my head and food in my kids' bellies. And I wasn't merely happy... I was fulfilled, and therefore the richest woman I knew.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 9, 2010)

Being happy in your "work" ( I don't even consider it work) makes for a happy life. Happiness is more about self worth than money. You can have lots of $$$ and be miserable. I know plenty of folks who fit that profile. When they pass you by on the road in their fiercely expensive cars, you might think they must be so happy. Many times you would be wrong.

Sounds like you have a good man....in it together. That's what it takes. Long marriages aren't made up of *TWO* people. They are made up of *ONE* couple.


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## shepj (Mar 9, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Being happy in your "work" ( I don't even consider it work) makes for a happy life. Happiness is more about self worth than money. You can have lots of $$$ and be miserable. I know plenty of folks who fit that profile. When they pass you by on the road in their fiercely expensive cars, you might think they must be so happy. Many times you would be wrong.
> 
> Sounds like you have a good man....in it together. That's what it takes. Long marriages aren't made up of *TWO* people. They are made up of *ONE* couple.


This is one of my favorite posts I have ever seen on here. read the comment I left u for rep  I am right with you about the marriage, it's not really her and me anymore, it's us (if that makes sense).


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## Katatawnic (Mar 9, 2010)

OK, now I've got tears stinging my eyes!

And I was wrong in my last post. I wasn't the richest woman I knew. I am the richest woman I know. Present tense.

Thanks for reminding me, guys!  I've been pretty manic today, which always leaves me physically feeling awful; the two combined are more than enough to all too easily make me forget for a while just how much I really do have it made in so many ways, sick or not.

Of course, now I'm feeling all mushy... BLECH!


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## CrackerJax (Mar 10, 2010)

This is starting to read like a Frank Capra movie....

Of course Kat, your health is a mighty big factor in your ability to enjoy being here. Always think of your health FIRST. 

I was offered BIG money contracts form a very large company everyone knows...to use my custom airboat (which they loved) to spray all of their waterways with herbicide and fungicides. It was a ridiculous amount of $$$ being offered. I had done work over the years for them, and they liked the way I rolled I guess. that is the way it is sometimes in business. Once you get inside the "fold" of a large company, because they TRUST you, they throw gobs of money at you. Then you get the paper jockeys in cubicles who keep coming up with nutty ideas because they have ZERO field experience. But since it comes from within their corporate structure and they all consider themselves to be very smart (some are, some aren't), all those nutty ideas are proposed to me with seriousness.... I have to bat most of them down and not seem like I'm being difficult. It's a tight rope walk.

Long story shortening here.... i looked at the money and I'm an organic fellow. I looked at the chemicals and the timeline (years of spraying), and said NO THANKS. They couldn't believe it. I did put them on to a buddy who I TRUSTED, and he is doing very well indeed today. Networking....I'm informal, but good at it.

I know I could have hired a few men to do it for me, but I never ask an employee (or friend) to do something I'm not willing to do.

Have a good day all!  Watch the sunset tonight.


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## micheebear (Mar 10, 2010)

just my 2 cents , if its legal and regulated/taxed by the fed where do you really think all that money will go?

It makes me think of the if you buy pot your supporting terrorists stuff ,its right in a way except the chest beating stars and stripe waving kind. you could finance the wars indefinitely ,it would be illegal to grow yourself.

seed control would be insane, companies can patent seeds, a little tweak to the genes and they own it.you might say no way but hell look at corn .

I dont think home growers would have it any easier, possibly worse over time.

i support decriminalizing but why support pouring trillions into an already broken gov that does'nt like you or want to help a citizen anyway?


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## CrackerJax (Mar 10, 2010)

If it became legal, I do believe it would end up being tightly controlled and rested from home growing. 

Where would the money go? Like all money that goes to the govt. Straight into a black hole and never seen again...


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## theclaws (Mar 11, 2010)

I'd much rather buy professionally and locally produced marijuana from the corner store than get a skimpy sack of "tha purps" from some wannabe thug.


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## shepj (Mar 11, 2010)

theclaws said:


> I'd much rather buy professionally and locally produced marijuana from the corner store than get a skimpy sack of "tha purps" from some wannabe thug.


haha this fat fuck kimbo-slice lookalike in alabama tried selling me "Purple Haze" (yeah.. purple haze in the lang of schwag, more like Peatmoss Haze). I fucking laughed at him and walked away. He wanted $25 for .7, it was seriously tempting to rip him out of the car and beat him. lol.


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## Riott (Mar 12, 2010)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.


How would that money disappear? It would just pump it into our economy directly. Marijuana is something that we can cultivate by ourselves, because it can grow in almost any climate. Which means less importing which is one of the main reasons where in the economic times that we are. Legalization means more jobs and more money stimulating the economy. I mean, how different do you think this is from the prohibition? It's not at all. Where are you getting these percentages anyway? 



Resinator420 said:


> Marijuana creates one of the biggest unregulated markets in the country with some 55MILLION people involved including people liek me and you. In a sense marijuana feuls america everyday. what do marijuana dealers do with the money they make???? THEY BUY SHIT, RANDOM SHIT CARS, BOATS, HOUSES, STOCKS, INVESTMENT, AND EVERYDAY THINGS FOOD, CLOTHS, GAS, HEALTH CARE PRODUCTS!! take this money, or market away from america and I think 60% of businesses would SIVEARLY suffer or all together shutdown. Alot of people would go crazy.


How would businesses shut down? They would be making more money selling the weed themselves! I have no idea where you are getting these theories. I mean think about what your saying here. The markets now sell weed, so instead of indirectly getting the money from marijuana dealers, they get it straight from the buyers for the product. How would they be taking away the weed market, they would be expanding it! They're not only making money for selling it, but also more money from the taxes that will be put on it. HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY PERCEIVE THAT THIS MONEY WOULD DISSAPEAR?



Resinator420 said:


> Decriminalization is a drastically different approach. If it were ever to happen, then think about it "all the users of your site could continue what they do everyday" the US continues to flourish like it does today except on average 185,000 people every year would be spared from jail, and we would save enough money from not having to house, feed, and jail these "criminals" (pot smokers, sellers) to bring our country out of this recession. Not to mention the millions we would save every year going after "weed criminals"


Yes, but legalization would do this SAME THING, only it would stimulate the economy a helluva lot more! (because WE are selling it and WE are taxing it.)



Resinator420 said:


> There would be millions and billions of dollars to spair for our coutry to use for valuable resources such as healthcare, military, and police for the REAL DRUGS cocaine, heroin, ect.
> 
> SO VOTE FOR DECRIMINALIZATION


It's funny how your last few points have nothing to do with decriminalization, as we would reap the same benefits with legalization. I'm not trying to talk shit to you or anything I just don't get how you could even think that the money made from marijuana would dissapear if stores and businesses ect. in the U.S. sold it, took in all the profit, taxed it, and like I said it can be grown in any climate which means no importing/exporting which means 100% of the profit coming from it would go to our country.

With a pot dealer theres no way that 100% of it gets pumped back into our economy. Like for example, say a low status dealer would make, say, $1000 a month selling, while a high status dealer rakes in $100k a month. So maybe the lower one can go around and pump that money back into the economy, while the big time dealer couldn't possibly do that without raising suspicion. So what do they do? They spend their money overseas, not to mention keeping there money in overseas banks.

All things considered, I'm not trying to flam on anyones opinions, I'm just stating my own.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 12, 2010)

Like so many, he isn't thinking it through. the money made in weed now doesn't disappear....dealers SPEND it, just like everyone else. there is no loss, only a change in direction away from illegal growers to legal growers.


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## Riott (Mar 12, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Like so many, he isn't thinking it through. the money made in weed now doesn't disappear....dealers SPEND it, just like everyone else. there is no loss, only a change in direction away from illegal growers to legal growers.


I'm not saying it disappears, I agree that they spend it like everyone else. All I'm saying is that even more of that money will be pumped into the economy if it were legalized.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 12, 2010)

No, I agree with YOU. It's Resinator who is entirely confused....very.


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## Riott (Mar 12, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> No, I agree with YOU. It's Resinator who is entirely confused....very.


Yea for real. Where does he get all these ridiculous percentages ? lol


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## CrackerJax (Mar 12, 2010)

Those are 6 pack percentages....  Maybe a 12 pack?


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## Katatawnic (Mar 12, 2010)

Riott said:


> Yea for real. Where does he get all these ridiculous percentages ? lol


From his ASSumptive mind, of course. Where else?


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## CrackerJax (Mar 12, 2010)

TWAT was that Kat?


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## Katatawnic (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm not going to dignify that with a response.... because I can't think of one right now.


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## LegalizeFreedom (Mar 12, 2010)

The true reason marijuana is illegal is because of the FDA, Marijuana could replace over 100 prescription drug companys magical "pills" and secondly Hemp Oil can be used as a fuel source that would bankrupt the oil industry and president dont like that... 

Source : Truth


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## CrackerJax (Mar 12, 2010)

The prescription drug trade didn't exist when weed was made illegal..... so....


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## LegalizeFreedom (Mar 12, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> The prescription drug trade didn't exist when weed was made illegal..... so....


you're talking about prohibition , I'm talking about 2010 economics. It's a different day and a different reason.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 12, 2010)

But that isn't the true reason why it's illegal. That came long before. 

If weed is allowed to become legal, I certainly believe it will be big Pharma that eventually takes over weed itself, along with big AG.

If weed comes online as a medical drug.... that will be where it ends up. Home growing will still be illegal. Wait and see....  That's a promise.


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## superherbsmoker (Mar 14, 2010)

Legalization would be great not stupid, and when it is, don't trust that government's shit until they know what they are doing, I live in Canada and the government herb here is shake, it's not good and it's fucking "irradiated"&#65279;, the THC is only 12.5% and there is no selection of strain, so it could be indica or sativa, how knows, if it was legal we could grow our own and save money and grow it better than the government, I'd rather buy it from a store that specializes in marijuana, like a dispensary does and government can tax them for their profits. 

Check out what the government sells to patients for $5/gram: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsAL6gC-M24


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## ford442 (Mar 14, 2010)

that is the federal govt's doing.. funny stuff - but, i suspect that washington dc will stay right out of the equation except for hemp subsidies - the pot growers are the agribusinesses we have already - tobacco and corn companies - i heard that they had all the packaging and advertisements ready for legal weed back in 1996 - the cig companies are ready to step in and who knows - they could genetically grow buds the size of your head and package them for sale fresh at the gas station...


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## superherbsmoker (Mar 15, 2010)

ford442 said:


> that is the federal govt's doing.. funny stuff - but, i suspect that washington dc will stay right out of the equation except for hemp subsidies - the pot growers are the agribusinesses we have already - tobacco and corn companies - i heard that they had all the packaging and advertisements ready for legal weed back in 1996 - the cig companies are ready to step in and who knows - they could genetically grow buds the size of your head and package them for sale fresh at the gas station...


That would be cool, interesting to know about the packaging prepared by tobacco companies for legalization. 

Somehow I have a hard time picturing them selling anything fresh at the gas-station, let alone marijuana, and genetically modified marijuana sounds like it would cause issues, like genetically modified foods are unhealthy, I want marijuana to stay as organic as possible.

So I guess there will be cheap genetic weed at the gas station, like buying a 40oz of beer, and there will be the organic weed that more expensive but much better and healthier too.


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## Riott (Mar 15, 2010)

superherbsmoker said:


> Legalization would be great not stupid, and when it is, don't trust that government's shit until they know what they are doing, I live in Canada and the government herb here is shake, it's not good and it's fucking "irradiated"&#65279;, the THC is only 12.5% and there is no selection of strain, so it could be indica or sativa, how knows, if it was legal we could grow our own and save money and grow it better than the government, I'd rather buy it from a store that specializes in marijuana, like a dispensary does and government can tax them for their profits.
> 
> Check out what the government sells to patients for $5/gram: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsAL6gC-M24.


Well I can almost guarentee if weed is legalized in the U.S., it will still be illegal to cultivate. You can thank capitalism for that, lol. The big businesses that start cultivating and selling it will make sure that happens. Well, maybe not, lol. Either way I mean I'd probably continue to grow sometimes as a hobby but if I could buy a pack a 20 perfectly rolled joints was like 6 or 7 bucks like cigarettes I wouldn't bother growing in larger amounts.


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## superherbsmoker (Mar 15, 2010)

Riott said:


> Well I can almost guarentee if weed is legalized in the U.S., it will still be illegal to cultivate. You can thank capitalism for that, lol. The big businesses that start cultivating and selling it will make sure that happens. Well, maybe not, lol. Either way I mean I'd probably continue to grow sometimes as a hobby but if I could buy a pack a 20 perfectly rolled joints was like 6 or 7 bucks like cigarettes I wouldn't bother growing in larger amounts.


Well I think that most people won't bother growing their own especially if they can get the strain of herb they want at the store!

In California they are most likely going to have an option in Nov to legalize for recreational use, plus having the ability to grow a 5x5 foot garden.

But people can make their own alcohol or tobacco and most don't bother to do that, and I think the same will be true for marijuana.

The only reason I would grow my own is if I couldn't find the strain's I want in the store, or if it would be cheaper to grow it myself, but if I can just walk down the street and get a great Sativa strain at a good price, hopefully less than what they sell on the street these days, I would go for that for sure.

To produce an ounce only cost's them maybe $25, so hopefully they aren't going to sell it for $250, I'd like to see the price come down to at least half or less for good herb.

Because if someone can spend a couple grand and grow their own for a year or more, the price would have to be low enough that people wouldn't bother growing because they wouldn't save money and can get the strain they want readily available at their local hemp store, or corner store.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 15, 2010)

How many ppl today grow tobacco for their cigarettes....  Not many.

Weed will be the same.


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## Juggalomidgetfahker (Mar 15, 2010)

It will be legal soon...but if it is legalized it isn't going to be bad, it will allow us to grow our own legally. Under the Constitution they don't have the right to make it illegal and not to mention at least prosecution will stop so that alone will be worth it. They tax tabacco and you can still grow it...there are only positives with legalization. You no longer have to buy from shady people if it were sold in stores....and ya it may be expensive but just grow your own...


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## CrackerJax (Mar 15, 2010)

We all said this back in the 70's..... and I'm still waiting.


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## kiddfarmer08 (Mar 15, 2010)

I don't care what everyone thinks pot is not the magical healing plant and if you can use it for fuel why don't you utilize the resource and run it in your car instead of paying $3 a gal.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 15, 2010)

Pretty sure I could, but if I grew 50 acres of it....the fuzz would show up.


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## NightTrain (Mar 15, 2010)

Just wanted to say that the responses to the OP on this thread has had a lot of good points and info and links that have been very informative and interesting to read. Thanks everyone


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## Absynthetics (Mar 16, 2010)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...



At first I was like who does this guy think he is but after the ignorant voice shut up and I read further I totally agree and it sickens me to get on the subject because its SO OBVIOUS that its unjust to criminalize a plant that George Washington grew in his backyard! If only Our Fore Fathers wrote a clause in the constitution protecting our dear friend Mary , we would have a more peaceful america, there are so many people who agree the Government is being Obtuse and Deliberate in their persecutions of our mothers, fathers, sisters, etc I dont know anyone who doesnt kno someone who benefits from Mj and isn't a crazed psycotic like lobbyist would have u think. I will do whatever i can for Decriminalizing Marijuana but i feel helpless because of the idiots controlling the government a.k.a puppeteers
nice to rave and rant packin to move where MMJ is only a migraine away


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## BorgClone (Mar 16, 2010)

Resinator420 said:


> I suggest a movie called the union if your really into the subject like me its awsome and itll make understand why im trying soo hard to convince people why im soooo for the decrim..
> 
> 
> Your a smart man philo2


in my area its decriminalized and it does not work...  you still get busted and you still cant consume freely... also most people dont have acess to weed they smoke polen, compressed resin mostly is shit, some pakistan is good but all that fuels some monkey in the desert most times criminal organizations, im not sure how it is is America i will make sure to look for the union movie to get a clear idea!

rep up for the thread!


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## mjisgood21 (Mar 21, 2010)

This is a bunch of Bullshit!
http://www.justice.gov/dea/ongoing/marijuana.html
IMO,Reason why it was illegal in the first place is just stupid.
It would cutdown some with "drugwars".
Smokers money would no longer supply druglords as much.
More people that relly deserve to be in jail,theyre will be more cells open.
Gov. would not be spending so much for mj related arrest,they would def. profit from it.
All the time they put into mj arrest,will be put into more serious crimes.
More people would actualy have a real job.
Mj is not a gateway.
Mj is not phisicly addictive.
Mj is equal to less harmful then what is legal.
Mj is natural,not manmade.

And for those who oppose.
So what if you lose profit,you can get a actual job & not be parinoid about random piss tests anymore.
Any smoke that goes into youre lungs is more then likely harmful,yes.
But compared to tobacco smoke,I would much rather choose mj.And id rather smell mj then tobacco when im outside.
Tobacco is legal,why not make mj legal?
Do you like people that rape & murder & get out sooner then someone that was just growing mj or just had possesion of mj?
Do you like buyin bud that you have no idea weither it has been grown right or not?
Do you like youre money going to support gangs & druglords doings?

I think the onely reason why its not legal is because theyres a shitlload more uses then just smoking it.If it didnt have so many other uses,i think it wouldve been legalized by now.


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## MrBlanco (Mar 21, 2010)

I admittedly haven't read this entire topic but I keep seeing the same thing said over and over, "it won't be legal to grow at home". What's the logic behind this? You can legally grow tobacco and brew beer for _personal_ use. Those are the two substances most often compared when talking about legalization, right?

As the poster above me pointed out, legalization will do quite a bit to help society as a whole.


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## ford442 (Mar 21, 2010)

mjisgood21 - what a terrible page to read! lol - that justice.gov page is full of propaganda.. you make a very good list of points there - if everyone understood those facts then pot would be legal tomorrow..!


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## LegalizeFreedom (Mar 21, 2010)

I will say it again, Marijuana is illegal because of the FDA and Oil industry. It will never be legalized for recreational use. Marijuana legalization would cause almost every industry to go bankrupt. Marijuana would replace atleast 50% of all the industrys in the world.

Few of the industry that would get knocked off the map or be forced to evolve very quickly...

Pills = 50% of all pills would be useless.
Gas = 100% useless
Clothes = Entirely new processing required.
Paper = Tree harvesting would be null due to marijuana fields producting over 1000% faster and 1 Acre of marijuana is equal to 3 Acres of trees.
Rope = All rope would be hemp much stronger material
Metal = Hemp is 50% lighter and 200% stronger.

Economy = Crashed because of a plant that is too powerful for its own good


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## mrdrywall (Mar 21, 2010)

i dont want it legalized spent a bunch of dough getting started in growing big demand and if legalized it would be everywhere took massive pay cut at work if it wasnt for my grows lot of my bills would not get paid


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## mjisgood21 (Mar 21, 2010)

LegalizeFreedom said:


> I will say it again, Marijuana is illegal because of the FDA and Oil industry. It will never be legalized for recreational use. Marijuana legalization would cause almost every industry to go bankrupt. Marijuana would replace atleast 50% of all the industrys in the world.
> 
> Few of the industry that would get knocked off the map or be forced to evolve very quickly...
> 
> ...


True.But just because it would be legal,doesnt mean all companys & people are going to switch from whats been used to make & produce products,foods,medicne etc for years.Most people just want to smoke & dont relly care much for its other many uses.Veg oil & water can be used for fuel & theyre not illegal & haven't replaced fuel commercialy.



mrdrywall said:


> i dont want it legalized spent a bunch of dough getting started in growing big demand and if legalized it would be everywhere took massive pay cut at work if it wasnt for my grows lot of my bills would not get paid


Id rather get a legal job & not have to worry about geting fired over a piss test.And I could smoke freely without the worry of being busted & not being able to get loans,grants,certain jobs etc.It would make it easier for smokers to keep & hold a job.And what happens when a smoker loses their job or/& gets busted?The dealer has a loss of a regular buyer.


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## MacGuyver4.2.0 (Mar 21, 2010)

LegalizeFreedom said:


> I will say it again, Marijuana is illegal because of the FDA and Oil industry. It will never be legalized for recreational use. Marijuana legalization would cause almost every industry to go bankrupt. Marijuana would replace atleast 50% of all the industrys in the world.
> 
> Few of the industry that would get knocked off the map or be forced to evolve very quickly...
> 
> ...


This is worth a read and gives you ALOT more history of the hemp plant then you might have known.
https://www.rollitup.org/toke-n-talk/6053-how-why-hemp-made-illegal.html#post51003


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## baddfrog0221 (Mar 21, 2010)

Wow I read the first post and decided this thread sucks. Legalize now!


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## MrBlanco (Mar 21, 2010)

mrdrywall said:


> i dont want it legalized spent a bunch of dough getting started in growing big demand and if legalized it would be everywhere took massive pay cut at work if it wasnt for my grows lot of my bills would not get paid


So, you want other people to spend years in prison so you can make money? That's pretty selfish, bro. Maybe you should look at how to adapt with the changing market instead?


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## nelsonjacob (Mar 21, 2010)

i think you bring up very good points about legalizing it, we shouldnt do that it risks hurting a lot of people, but i dont think thaat you should go to jail for just a little bit of weed


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## mjisgood21 (Mar 21, 2010)

Heres a bump of my response from pg.36 ending.
Originally Posted by *LegalizeFreedom*  
_I will say it again, marijuana is illegal because of the FDA and Oil industry. It will never be legalized for recreational use. marijuana legalization would cause almost every industry to go bankrupt. marijuana would replace atleast 50% of all the industrys in the world._

_Few of the industry that would get knocked off the map or be forced to evolve very quickly..._

_Pills = 50% of all pills would be useless._
_Gas = 100% useless_
_Clothes = Entirely new processing required._
_Paper = Tree harvesting would be null due to marijuana fields producting over 1000% faster and 1 Acre of marijuana is equal to 3 Acres of trees._
_Rope = All rope would be hemp much stronger material_
_Metal = Hemp is 50% lighter and 200% stronger._

_Economy = Crashed because of a plant that is too powerful for its own good _


True.But just because it would be legal,doesnt mean all companys & people are going to switch from whats been used to make & produce products,foods,medicne etc for years.Most people just want to smoke & dont relly care much for its other many uses.Veg oil & water can be used for fuel & theyre not illegal & haven't replaced fuel commercialy(cant go to the gas station & fill up).

_*mrdrywall->>*"i dont want it legalized spent a bunch of dough getting started in growing big demand and if legalized it would be everywhere took massive pay cut at work if it wasnt for my grows lot of my bills would not get paid"_

Id rather get a legal job & not have to worry about geting fired over a piss test.And I could smoke freely without the worry of being busted & not being able to get loans,grants,certain jobs etc.It would make it easier for smokers to keep & hold a job.And what happens when a smoker loses their job or/& gets busted?The dealer has a loss of a regular buyer.& can risk geting pinched,it can be a double loss.


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## katfish32 (Mar 21, 2010)

Brody.Will.Grow.Thee said:


> we should not legalize it, then have everyone who smokes be open and casual about it. they cant arrest all of us!!


 UUUUUUhhhhhh ok you go first i got your back


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## baddfrog0221 (Mar 22, 2010)

If marijuana was that powerful, not saying it's not, then someone would have been able to take over the world by now dude. It's been around for thousands of years and harvested and cultivated by ancient civilizations. There is no evidence that it led to the doenfall or destruction of any economy or civilization when it was legal. In fact if you look at the pattern the legalization and mass cultivation of marijuana has helped any society that it has been used in more then it has hurt them. Look up its medicinal and industrial use in ancient China. Look up how it helped lead to the downfall of the French society during the Napoleonic era, when he outlawed its use and destroyed all the marijuana crops. 

Finally take into regard all the people who are screwed every day in this country because a friggin weed is illegal to pull out of the ground and smoke. It's just silly and wrong. It will not take over any other industries or hurt any other business because it has been around forever and it has not replaced those things yet. It should be legal so that our society can advance its knowledge of reusable and sustainable medicine, also so that the people can have access to one of the most useful tools for production known to man. 

Listening to someone say we should not vote to legalize is like watching the super bowl with someone who says they never watch football. Decriminalization is not the answer, sure it's a start and that would be amazing but it wont allow us to really get everything we can out of marijuana. Full legalization would allow a new business market to flourish. Seeds could be traded, plants could be cross pollinated and everyone could finally take their bud outside to grow and stop wasting hours of electricity!!!!


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## MrBlanco (Mar 22, 2010)

katfish32 said:


> UUUUUUhhhhhh ok you go first i got your back


Yeah. Waaaaay back.


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## Evil Buddies (Mar 22, 2010)

Any man or woman that goes to work and pays taxes i feel has the right to come home and smoke a joint. If people were only to grow for personal use, its a harmless crime. Its not hurting anyone, who is the government to tell us what we can or cant do. As long as u pay ur taxes and ur not harming anyone its not a crime. The government just dont want us getting something good out of nothing.

They take our money then tell us we cant do something that is harmless and doesnt hurt anyone. Decriminalise weed and then maker stiffer penalties for hard drugs like coke crack and heroin. It's the hard drugs that are fukking up our cities why dont they concentrate on the real problem. 

Decriminalise it and will free up resources to deal with serious issues instead of locking us up for the herb.

Evil


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## Katatawnic (Mar 22, 2010)

Decriminalizing is far from guaranteeing you'll stay out of jail. Only legalization can do that.


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## sm0keyrich510 (Mar 26, 2010)

i personally think if you vote to legalize weed completely you are a jerk-off. period.

why do i say that?


its going to be the beginning of the end for the good growers...the ones who actually make quality products and are being rewarded with the cash and giving it to big business and the state (in taxes). 

a system like the one in place in california (or maybe one similar but better thought out) would be best.

it makes it available to everyone that gets a card (which is ridiculously easy) and it allows the growers to supply them...not the next big beer/tobacco company of weed...yes it would happen...and the biggest fish in the pond would rack up all the profit and all the good work of the down to earth growers would go unrewarded. 

beyond that is they do legalize it to where an ounce and 25 sq ft of growing space is allowed to everyone 21 and over it will in a lot of shitty weed by people out to turn profits...it will be hard to find the good weed when overnight first time growers will be selling weed grown incorrectly...possibly even dangerously...(you never know what someone would put into their grow; harmless or not if they found they can make a killing in profit).

do you really want to run that risk? possibly get weed thats molded that could make you sick or worse, kill you?

not me.

and i dont want to see weed go to a commercial big company. 

if you legalize weed you're fucking the people.


i like the idea of real local people growing their own crops and being the suppliers...not a corporate company.


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## superherbsmoker (Mar 26, 2010)

sm0keyrich510 said:


> i personally think if you vote to legalize weed completely you are a jerk-off. period.
> 
> why do i say that?
> 
> ...


That's a harsh statement, people are standing up for their freedoms and weed should never be illegal.

Even if it was legal this would not stop growers and if new grower started growing shitty dangerous weed for profit once clients try it and get sick or don't like the quality they will stop buying from shitty growers and the shitty grower will go out of business very fast. I understand your frustration but I think legalization will actually improve quality herb for those that want to buy it from good growers.

It's the same for Alcohol or tobacco, people have the right to grow or produce their own, most don't and would probably make shitting booze like moon shine or something and most won't buy or continue buy shitty stuff. but small companies or individuals can produce very nice wine or alcohol or cigars too that people will keep coming back to buy.

If someone just wants to buy from the liquor store that's their choice. It will be the same for weed, yes it will be mass produced and probably won't be very healthy.

People will still grow their own and those that are underground doing it or are professional medical growers can start businesses and produce good healthy herbs and people will buy from them to get good stuff. You can't profit or build a business around shitty product it won't last.

Currently in Canada the gov't provides medical cannabis which is low quality and it's irradiated which doesn't sound good, so medical growers with dozens of years experience grow their own or grow for others.

So don't knock people for wanting it to be legalized, it's cause more killing and deaths and problems being illegal and it's time to legalize, people are smart and not jerk off's for wanting freedom!!

Don't be so afraid, and live free, fuck the big companies and growers of shit weed, don't buy from them.

I'd rather grow my own quality herb or buy quality herb from other trusted sources for a few extra bucks then buy shitty unhealthy weed from a corporation of harmful growers

Also it's most likely people are growing shitty weed now to turn a profit because there are no standards and people don't have a lot of choices because it's illegal.

When you put a product into the open market the free market will demand top quality for those that want it, for others they can get the shitty stuff, there will be choices for what people can afford or the quality they want just like with alcohol, tobacco or almost any product or service.


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## nicktater (Mar 26, 2010)

Yeah i think the reason why its not legal is because its easily grown by just any one who plants a seed. everyone would be growing there own. the best would sell more. the rest could smoke there own. the government cant profit off something thats so easy for everyone to get. so they make it illegal to profit off of the fines. 
They wouldnt spend money to bust someone growing some personal plants if it were legal and would tax the major growers.


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## michaeljdumpout (Mar 26, 2010)

im on both sides here . if they do then it would be alot of hustlers money fucked up ... but i could smoke like a chimmney and be free as a bird... but if they dont then we can continue to trap this paper.


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## ford442 (Mar 27, 2010)

i think that the main issue now along with the unreasonable arrests is the violence at the border.. they find like 5 - 7 chopped up bodies every day and it is never the cartel's men - 18,000 innocent lives over the last 3 years of the war on drugs.. it will only become more dangerous - the mexican cartel employs more than 100,000 armed men.. that is more than the mexican army.. by legalizing weed we could cut out over $100,000,000,000 of their yearly budget.. no more gold plated AK-47s and million dollar salaries for the militia..!


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## Dragline (Mar 27, 2010)

Im still in the process of reading this thread. So forgive me if this has been discussed already. We already know if legalized the price in California will drop. But what do you think its effects will be on what will still be a black market in other states? If big corporations start producing product, what do you see its impact possibly in other states where that corporate product is smuggled to.


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## bonnie'n'klyde (Mar 27, 2010)

racerboy71 said:


> can you see some of the bible belt states decriminalizing marijuana? i don't live in the south, thank god, lol..



Actually....the people in the south have been and will continue growing pot on a very large scale. It is like a family tradition, especially in Tennessee and Kentucky. All the mountains and places people never go allow the people in South Eastern Kentucky to grow just under that of what California grows. They are second in the country. Besides the counties and state cannot afford to monitor people the way they can in say California. Southwestern West Virginia is exactly the same way and I believe they rank 4th. It is the Appalachian smoke trail man! lol


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## ricky316 (Mar 27, 2010)

I'v been reading this thread and after everything i read i do hope it becomes legal and i think i speak for all of us when i say this but i just want to smoke my bud in peace. Im sure the big corporations are goin to jump on it if it does become legal but look at it this way the ones who do grow good quality herb are going to continue to grow if anything there the one's who are goin to expand there operation first. Iv always grown my own weed its free and easy and like i siad i just want to smoke my herb in peace especially after a long day of work i just want to come home and spark up a blunt of my own high grade bud.


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## liam :) (Mar 27, 2010)

*i would vote to legalize sweet maryjane  say no to legalizing weed, are you nuts lol*


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## ford442 (Mar 27, 2010)

you often see the chart of polls saying that support for pot has grown from 33% in 1998 to 44% in 2008 - but, i wonder how many people answer honestly? is this some narc looking guy in a suit asking you to come over to his van and answer personal questions about drugs? perhaps we have more like 55-60% national approval.. then then remaining 40-56% are not all for prohibtion..

it is going to happen in california this november..  everyone *vote *and make it a landslide!!


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## Evil Buddies (Mar 28, 2010)

Legalise weed stop putting people in to prison for it. Then concentrate on the hard drugs, weed is different than coke heroin crytal meth. But it's still regarded in the same category.

Right now at this economic crisis more jobs and money can be made by legalising it. People can set up shops and businesses selling weed thats taxed. More police time can be spent on crimes that are dangerous and focus on protecting the public. A grower that grows for just personal use is not hurting anyone. He or she is not affecting or harming anyone else by growng weed. 


People who go out and work that buy cannais could gow there own. Leaving the worker more money to spend, money spent on legal taxed products. The price of good weed is extortinate these days. That's whats making a lot of people grow there own as they cant afford to smoke. Or feel that they dont want to pay the extra money, 

I think that it will be legalised in the future as a new generation of people will be more open minded than the current. They could legalise it as a test see how it all works out. If it dont work out then culd make it illegal again. You don't know if its gonna work uless u try and if u dont try u never know.

Weed makes a lot of people happy, id rather live in a world where we are all happy and smiling than one where we all miserable fukkers.

All us weed smokers/growers should put our money together and buy are own country and make up are own laws lol. Then we will be able to grow in peace hhehehe.


Evil


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## beardo (Mar 28, 2010)

its a tough issue weed should not be illegal that said your points are valid and legalisation will help and hurt the economy i have both sides here


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## Dragline (Mar 28, 2010)

Dragline said:


> Im still in the process of reading this thread. So forgive me if this has been discussed already. We already know if legalized the price in California will drop. But what do you think its effects will be on what will still be a black market in other states? If big corporations start producing product, what do you see its impact possibly in other states where that corporate product is smuggled to.


anyone? anyone?


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## Johnnyorganic (Mar 28, 2010)

Dragline said:


> anyone? anyone?


I'll take it, Drag.

I enjoy discussing subjects on which we agree.


Dragline said:


> Im still in the process of reading this thread. So forgive me if this has been discussed already. We already know if legalized the price in California will drop.


Hopefully, this will be the case. But when MMJ came about, prices did not abate. Anyone in California, please correct me if I am wrong. Although this may not be relevant because MMJ was not full re-legalization.

Like the end of Alcohol Prohibition, the embedded Federal taxes almost made up for the artificial inflation imposed by Prohibition. Over half the price of a bottle of liquor is embedded taxes.

Re-legalization proponents in California are justifying re-legalization as a revenue-generating measure. Meaning they will impose heavy taxes on commercial producers.


Dragline said:


> But what do you think its effects will be on what will still be a black market in other states?


Interesting question. If commercial producers have to pay a tax to produce, it would do them little good to smuggle already-taxed product across state lines to be sold on the black market elsewhere.

I would venture to guess that the impact would be on private producers who wish to make money (bootleggers), who do not pay the commercial tax (tax evaders) and sell their product. Much like the Black Market operates now. This will be the case inside or outside of California.


Dragline said:


> If big corporations start producing product, what do you see its impact possibly in other states where that corporate product is smuggled to.


The corporate impact will be muted by the heavy embedded taxes. The wild card will be the outlaw growers (bootleggers). That is who the state revenue agents will go after with a vengeance. And rightly so.

With legitimacy comes responsibility.


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## akgrown (Mar 28, 2010)

If we vote to legalize then all the shady dealers will have to get real jobs, like the rest of america, thus stimulating the economy even more. I will revere the day that i get to sit out on my front porch smoking a j w/o worrying about someone calling the cops. Think of how much more peaceful it will be. Not to mention since everyone will be getting stoned, who's going to want to drive anywhere reducing our need for foreign oil. And just think if it gets legalized i am buying a bunch of stock in Hostees, Doritos, and Ben and Jerry's.


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## willworkforweed (Mar 29, 2010)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...


1. What proof do you have that 80% of all retail sales come from marijuana profits? That simply is not true.

2. So we should keep it illegal to stop market competition? That's crazy. Our laws are not meant to favor certain people or certain businesses. Keeping something illegal just so some people can monopolize an industry is wrong.

3. Businesses would not shut down. It would only stimulate our economy. Stores would open up to start selling marijuana. 

4. It seems like you just want it to be kept illegal so dealers can charge high prices. You're saying that we should punish innocent people just so weed dealers can keep their prices high?


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## Fenster Karton (Mar 29, 2010)

Why does the united states government have a patent on marijuana?

On the one hand, United States federal government officials have consistently denied that marijuana has any medical benefits. On the other, the government actually holds patents for the medical use of the plant. 
Just check out US Patent 6630507 titled "Cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectants" which is assigned to The United States of America, as represented by the Department of Health and Human Services. 
The patent claims that "Cannabinoids have been found to have antioxidant properties, unrelated to NMDA receptor antagonism. This new found property makes cannabinoids useful in the treatment and prophylaxis of wide variety of oxidation associated diseases, such as ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases. The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases.


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## sm0keyrich510 (Mar 29, 2010)

willworkforweed said:


> 1. What proof do you have that 80% of all retail sales come from marijuana profits? That simply is not true.
> 
> 2. So we should keep it illegal to stop market competition? That's crazy. Our laws are not meant to favor certain people or certain businesses. Keeping something illegal just so some people can monopolize an industry is wrong.
> 
> ...


i might not agree with what the op originally stated but i am against legalizing marijuana (for other reasons)...mainly that the state/government will fuck us.

i noticed in your 4th point you state that with it illegal dealers can charge high prices and really cash in...

but look at it this way....

its either the growers make the $ or the state/government/big business will.

so who would you rather pay?

i personally would rather the grower make the $ than give it to guys who live so high off the hog already and could give a fuck less about marijuana or the people who use it.

the government/state will tax the living shit out of weed. you wont see an ounce for $300 (or in that neighborhood) ever again...

a gram will go from $20 to $30 or higher (guaranteed).

dont believe me? look at cigs or alcohol.

same idea. all these new propositions come around every two years and from time to time you'll see one to increase the tax on alcohol or cigs...so cigs for from being $1.20 a pack to up to $10 (if you live in NY). 

where do you think that extra 8-9 bucks goes to? thats right...taxes and fees etc. 

i think marijuana is expensive enough already. lets not make a dumb decision and become the governments new cash crop.

its always been the cash crop of the people and thats how it should stay.


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## Johnnyorganic (Mar 29, 2010)

sm0keyrich510 said:


> i might not agree with what the op originally stated but i am against legalizing marijuana (for other reasons)...mainly that the state/government will fuck us.


If you don't think they are fucking us *now*... well, I just don't know what to say.


sm0keyrich510 said:


> i noticed in your 4th point you state that with it illegal dealers can charge high prices and really cash in...
> 
> but look at it this way....
> 
> ...


Between criminals and non-criminals? I would rather pay the *non-criminals*.


sm0keyrich510 said:


> i personally would rather the grower make the $ than give it to guys who live so high off the hog already and could give a fuck less about marijuana or the people who use it.


Better to give your money to the criminal cartels. They have your best interests at heart. 


sm0keyrich510 said:


> the government/state will tax the living shit out of weed. you wont see an ounce for $300 (or in that neighborhood) ever again...
> 
> a gram will go from $20 to $30 or higher (guaranteed).
> 
> ...


Cannabis is already *artificially* inflated due to Prohibition. Any taxes imposed would merely replace the Prohibition-related costs. Just like alcohol.


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## mjisgood21 (Mar 30, 2010)

Just made quick vid about why I want legalization.I will make a much beter,detailed,more forward video when I get more time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB-UtFosl0w
If you watch it all,thanks!Sorry if you dont like the music,just bear it or mute it lol.


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## captiankush (Mar 30, 2010)

mjisgood21 said:


> Just made quick vid about why I want legalization.I will make a much beter,detailed,more forward video when I get more time.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB-UtFosl0w
> If you watch it all,thanks!Sorry if you dont like the music,just bear it or mute it lol.


Not a bad little vid. Music transitions are super jarring, tho but overall it's not bad.

CK


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## Fenster Karton (Mar 30, 2010)

mjisgood21 said:


> Just made quick vid about why I want legalization.I will make a much beter,detailed,more forward video when I get more time.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB-UtFosl0w
> If you watch it all,thanks!Sorry if you dont like the music,just bear it or mute it lol.


I think I would stress the benefits. Omega3, (one of the few plant sources actually), antioxidant properties and other medical benefits

BTW some nice pictures


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## sm0keyrich510 (Mar 30, 2010)

Johnnyorganic said:


> If you don't think they are fucking us *now*... well, I just don't know what to say.
> 
> Between criminals and non-criminals? I would rather pay the *non-criminals*.
> 
> ...


well were definitely getting fucked now but i believe we'll get fucked worse by the government. i really do. every time there is a tax needed they will pawn it off on marijuana.

why?

because more in the u.s. DONT use marijuana (and could care less what it costs) than the people who do use/grow it. and thats the facts. so think about future prop measures and such asking to tax marijuana...it will be an easy way to pass it on. and im sure the state/government will think of really awesome fees to slap on it on top of it.

im not saying criminals and criminal cartels. thats a bit different. im talking about the growers with prop 215 cards that you can go to on craigslist and buy their product who are straight up-front people.

i met a guy on craigslist who i got some tree off of...he's a pretty good guy...once i paid $40 for an 8th...the other $50 (more top shelf shit) but he always gave me 1.5 grams extra every time...i'd rather see this guy get the $ than some fat bastards who dont need any more $.

i know their are criminals out there...i dont think they should profit...just like i dont think the state should either. 


they been the ones fucking all of us for so long (fines, jail time, etc) now they see there is more money involved for them if they legalize it...so thats why its really THEIR best interest at heart. thats also why cigs will never be completely banned...because they make too much damn $ off it. 

yes the taxes would replace the cost since its illegal now...however it will replace them to START...by the time they are done taxing the hell out of it the black market price of today will be considered "cheap" to future generations.

like my prime example...cigs cost $1.20 a pack to make (roughly) they go for $5+ a pack all the way up to $10....they go for $50+ a carton (here).

thats highway robbery. 

im sure cig smokers would rather get something similar to a prop 215 card if they could buy cigs for just half of what they go for now.

the state/government has your interests at heart as much as a drug cartel does...

i say keep this to the people. 

filter out the criminals involved in this and let the good people make their $...


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## youngblood (Mar 31, 2010)

Man, you can't spell for shit! )


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## 420ezah420 (Mar 31, 2010)

I will be there in november along with at least 10-15 of my family members and will will all be voting yes on legalization, I can care less about all of you bud dealers who get rich off of charging custees the price of gold for bud. All of you dealers can go bankrupt and lose all of your material posessions for all I care, Actualy I would be ecstatic to see that.


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## ford442 (Mar 31, 2010)

i wouldn't go so far as to condemn growers at large - i want to see everyone in the pot business who wants to keep going with it in the legitimate market go ahead! if you can't make the switch over then maybe you are in over your head relying on the black market and you will take a hit.. not _all _of your possessions though - that has happened too much already..!


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## SwungChris (Apr 2, 2010)

420ezah420 said:


> I will be there in november along with at least 10-15 of my family members and will will all be voting yes on legalization, I can care less about all of you bud dealers who get rich off of charging custees the price of gold for bud. All of you dealers can go bankrupt and lose all of your material posessions for all I care, Actualy I would be ecstatic to see that.


I totally agree with you. I don't give a rats ass about all the drug dealers making money the easy way. Hopefully when this bill passes those assholes will be screwed. I believe people who don't grow should be able to get it from someone, but they shouldn't have to get raped in the process. Vote to legalize and I promise you wont regret it!


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## Smotz (Apr 11, 2010)

I'm one of the growers who stands to lose out on alot of money, and a very luxurious lifestyle which I have become accustomed to, if legalization ever happens here. If it does happen, I may have to go out a find an actual *GASP* Job! I know, nothing is more horrible than having to pawn your life away, while living paycheck to paycheck, to make someone else rich. 

Still, I'm not a greedy person, and I know that this is part of the counterculture movement, and a necessary step that needs to happen. Because it really is the right thing to do. I support it 100% regardless of what may happen to me or my profits. At least then we stoners can all toke freely and openly without fear of retribution from the law. 

Till that glorious day comes to pass, Smoke on.


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## SmokesLikeBob (Apr 11, 2010)

Brody.Will.Grow.Thee said:


> we should not legalize it, then have everyone who smokes be open and casual about it. they cant arrest all of us!!


That is the smartest thing i've ever heard!!! let's do it motherfuckers!!! haha


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## MrStickyScissors (Apr 11, 2010)

Wordz said:


> you're so so so so so so wrong about that stat. I say vote to legalize maybe 80% of your money comes from pot but I still gotta work to make ends meet . if I go to jail them I'll be fucked so yes you need to vote to legalize if you got the chance just to keep me out of jail


For some reason your profile picture with the watermelon is hella funny. Is that a black man trap? lolll


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## stonerbeans (Apr 11, 2010)

brody.will.grow.thee said:


> we should not legalize it, then have everyone who smokes be open and casual about it. They cant arrest all of us!!


but they try every damn day man


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## Mile High Medicine Man (Apr 19, 2010)

This is odd. Ususally fear-mongering comes from the other side of this issue. The fact is, those pre-rolled packaged fatties at the gas stations certainly won't be anywhere near 'the best'. They'll be commercially grown schwag; inorganic, premature and genetically inferior to real good buds. Secondly, legalization will open up the market for people that aren't willing to go to prison for this plant. Thirdly, the economics of it will still balance out; people that legally sell weed still buy things, but now they'll be able to buy real investments without fear of government confiscation. Just smoke a bowl and relax, man, legalization will cure that paranoia.
-Mile High Medicine Man


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## Mile High Medicine Man (Apr 19, 2010)

Resinator420 said:


> Its a great conversation. Administrators, yourwelcome for skyrocketing your users interest for the two days.
> 
> Thanks For Everyones Input, even you people that dont make any sense.
> 
> Im Gonna End This By Saying That All Of Those Who Disagreed With My Information "Just Think Long And Hard About What It Is That You Really Want, Do Some Research And Then See If Your Desicion Changes"


Feeble attempt to make yourself appear more intelligent. For a person that likes pot to vote against legalization is just moronic. Reminds me of the oil and coal workers that say Climate Change is a scam. You are just afraid of change, even if it is a step in a neccessary direction. Stop being selfish and vote for what's right, not what will get you more profit. I almost hope you get arrested. I've been arrested and trust me, after a few months in the can you would understand that being legal is more important than being rich.
-Mile High Medicine Man.


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## kylen (Apr 19, 2010)

definately vote to legalize it


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## ganjaluvr (Apr 19, 2010)

kylen said:


> definately vote to legalize it



No doubt.. legalize marijuana!

the hell with all the mumbo jumbo ppl talk about not legalizing it.

I mean think about it.. if they would legalize it in every state.. think of all the crime rate that would probably drop.. people wouldn't be so "uptight" all the time about everything.. I think it would bring peace to the world.. peace that we need.. especially in today's world.

Plus, the tax that the government would put on it (just like they do cigarettes!)... they could use that extra revenue for all kinds of shit. Fix potholes in roads... it would almost be limitless to what they could do with the revenue from the tax on marijuana.

The benefits from legalizing it.. would be unbelievable. 

They'll legalize it.. just a matter of time. Not only that.. but hell they've already started to legalize it... so yea again its just a matter of time.


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## stoniebologna (Apr 19, 2010)

so your argument is don't legalize it cause it would be too perfect? what do you mean 80% of money comes from marijuana? stores wouldn't go out of business, the price would just go down because there is no monopoly and anyone can now grow. That means that consumers are set, patients are set, and growers are set because in places like Oregon, the Oregon Cannabis Tax Act would create a regulatory commission that is obligated to buy your harvest, ensuring quality and profit. government is a non-profit institution that provides services like education, healthcare, social services etc...which judging by your spelling and logic it might be beneficial to increase how much is allocated to those sectors. Money would not be leaving, it would create competition uninhibited by monopolies like cartels creating entrepreneurial opportunities.

decriminalization without regulation could open the door for tainted products, presenting a health risk and a potentially huge risk that might necessitate enormous spending: medical attention to poisoned consumers, unbridled competition and monopolies undercutting farmers...

Check out www.cannabistaxact.org and vote yes on the Oregon Cannabis Tax Act, the California legalization amendment, and whatever Washington is doing (if anything)

any questions?


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## ford442 (Apr 21, 2010)

wiki - 

"Many social problems have been attributed to the Prohibition era. Mafia groups limited their activities to gambling and theft until 1920, when organized bootlegging manifested in response to the effect of Prohibition.[17] A profitable, often violent, black market for alcohol flourished. Powerful gangs corrupted law enforcement agencies, leading to racketeering. Stronger liquor surged in popularity because its potency made it more profitable to smuggle.
To prevent bootleggers from using industrial ethyl alcohol to produce illegal beverages, the government ordered the poisoning of industrial alcohols. In response, bootleggers hired chemists who successfully renatured the alcohol to make it drinkable. As a response, the Treasury Department required manufacturers to add more deadly poisons, including the particularly deadly methyl alcohol. New York City medical examiners prominently opposed these policies because of the danger to human life. As many as 10,000 people died from drinking denatured alcohol before Prohibition ended."


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## fdd2blk (Apr 21, 2010)

at this point i have decided to vote YES and am encouraging others to do so.

lets open the doors.

more people will need glasswares.


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## Dan Kone (Apr 21, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> at this point i have decided to vote YES and am encouraging others to do so.
> 
> lets open the doors.
> 
> more people will need glasswares.


No matter how shitty this bill is, it's still a step forward.


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## fdd2blk (Apr 21, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> No matter how shitty this bill is, it's still a step forward.


i think you're right.


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## Bookworm (Apr 21, 2010)

since I don't feel like reading all 41 pages can someone tell my why the bill for cali is "shitty"?


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## Polecat (Apr 21, 2010)

as far as the economy. the average smoker would have more money to spend on the stuff you stated. Not the drug dealers that dont pay taxes on thier income. And most dealers are ripping there buyers a new asshole anyways. Cant wait for it to be legal


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## Dan Kone (Apr 22, 2010)

Bookworm said:


> since I don't feel like reading all 41 pages can someone tell my why the bill for cali is "shitty"?


I'll try and lay it out in the most non-bias way I can.

It's shitty because it has the potential to put the entire business in the hands of a very few large cannabis businesses and the bill seems to be written in a way that will make Richard Lee very rich. 

It's also not full legalization. It will still be illegal to have more than an ounce and grow more than a 5x5 sq foot area. It will require city councils/county boards of supervisors to approve all cannabis businesses. The tax we will have to pay is a large one. ($50 per ounce). It allows counties/cities to pass laws banning non-medical cannabis. 

On the upside -

It allows Californians over 21 years old to carry an ounce and a small growing area without getting fucked with. 

It is the first state wide legalization bill in the country. Of course it's not going to be perfect. But it's the biggest step towards full legalization we've had since 1937. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In my opinion:

You can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. It's a poorly written bill, but it's still a legalization bill. If you favor legalization you have to get out and vote yes for this. It won't get us all the way there but it's a big step forward.


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## Moldy (Apr 22, 2010)

Decrim is for dealers or growers. I do think that the price will remain high for a few years if legalized and the big economic depression is a myth. With decrim people still get busted and the cops remain in control. I can't blame people who depend on the Gov't price support system (called prohibition) however I've seen too many very good people arrested and fucked with over my 45 years of cannabis use, I myself included. Big Pharma and Phillip Morse taking the trade away? Don't think so, that's just a scare tactic. Small farmers and growers will prevail here IMHO but they'll have to compete on a broader scale. Cali growers are the best and they can do it. But I do see why there is so much fear being spread around as I'd be nervous too if my job was going to be de-valued.


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## bigv1976 (Apr 22, 2010)

I couldn't care less if it is legalized or not. I grow my own and tell nobody and if it was legal I would grow my own and tell nobody. End result is the same.


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## CPT. Kush (Apr 22, 2010)

Decriminalization Good. Legalization Bad.


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## markscastle (Apr 23, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> I'll try and lay it out in the most non-bias way I can.
> 
> It's shitty because it has the potential to put the entire business in the hands of a very few large cannabis businesses and the bill seems to be written in a way that will make Richard Lee very rich.
> 
> ...


Why I won`t be voting yes for this bill.Fist off it is only an infraction of the Health&safety code to have up to on oz. in California.Punishable by a fine of no more than $100.00.(if you do not have a medical recomendation from a doctor) The preposed law would allow you to have an oz.but would ad a tax of $50 plus sales tax and allow local goverments to ferther add taxes without any restraints. Instead of paying a fine of $100 for an infraction of the law if you are caught, you would always be caught with large taxes. If you have more than an oz. existing penal codes would still come into play and you could face jail time. The new law would require you be 21 years of age and not smoke near minors(anyone under 21 years of age)or face jail time. This would include members of the armed service that are under 21. Where could you now go to smoke your `legal` weed? Not at a ball game,minors there! But you could buy a beer at a consession stand.How about the county fair? Nope same thing! The park? Nope minor there! Well where could you smoke your legal weed? At home or at a despencery! As a warrant can not be issued for an infraction of the law,you can already do that!(provided you become a member at the despencery as it is for members and not a public place)

Now about that 5x5 area you can now grow in.Really if you are like most people who smoke you don`t have a place to grow in now or you just don`t want to take the time,but if that isn`t the case the average grower can not grow enough MJ in that small of an area to completely supply themselfs.As it will not be allowed to be sold without a sellers licence you have the choise of a despencery or? Nothing! That`s why the despencery owners are backing this law! 

You see there is nothing in this law worth voting for it! It is a sham to get `Taxes,Controls and Regulations`just like the name of the law states. Do you really want Taxed? Controlled? Regulated? This would be a jump backwords in the MJ community!


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## markscastle (Apr 23, 2010)

Moldy said:


> Decrim is for dealers or growers. I do think that the price will remain high for a few years if legalized and the big economic depression is a myth. With decrim people still get busted and the cops remain in control. I can't blame people who depend on the Gov't price support system (called prohibition) however I've seen too many very good people arrested and fucked with over my 45 years of cannabis use, I myself included. Big Pharma and Phillip Morse taking the trade away? Don't think so, that's just a scare tactic. Small farmers and growers will prevail here IMHO but they'll have to compete on a broader scale. Cali growers are the best and they can do it. But I do see why there is so much fear being spread around as I'd be nervous too if my job was going to be de-valued.


People would not be able to be arrested if marijuana was decrminalized.Decriminalization would void all parts of the penal code involving marijuana and it would be just as if no laws were ever passed involving marijuana.However the Tax,control,and regulate law would cause more people to go to jail under state laws.


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## markscastle (Apr 23, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> I'll try and lay it out in the most non-bias way I can.
> 
> It's shitty because it has the potential to put the entire business in the hands of a very few large cannabis businesses and the bill seems to be written in a way that will make Richard Lee very rich.
> 
> ...


Why I won`t be voting yes for this bill.Fist off it is only an infraction of the Health&safety code to have up to on oz. in California.Punishable by a fine of no more tha $100.00.(if you do not have a medical recomendation for a doctor) The preposed law would allow you to have an oz.but would add a tax of $50 plus sales taxand allow local goverments to ferther add taxes without any restraints. Instead of paying a fine of $100 for an infraction of the law if you are caught you would always be caught with large taxes. If you have more than an oz existing penal codes would still come into play and you could face jail time. The new law would require you be 21 years of age and not smoke near minors(anyone under 21 years of age)or face jail time. This would include members of the armed service that are under 21. Where could you now go to smoke your `legal` weed? Not at a ball game,minors there! but you could buy a beer at a consession stand.How about the county fair? Nope same thing! The park? Nope minor there! Well where could you smoke your legal weed? at home or at a despencery! As a warrant can not be issued for an infraction of the law,you can already do that! 

Now about that 5x5 area you can now grow in.Really if you are like most people who smoke you don`t have a place to grow in now or you just don`t want to take the time,but if that isn`t the case the average grower can not grow enough MJ in that small of an area to completely supply themselfs.As it will not be allowed to be sold without a sellers licence you have the choise of a despencery or? Nothing! That`s why the despencery owners are backing this law! 

You see there is nothing in this law worth voting for it! It is a sham to get `Taxes,Controls and Regulations`just like the name of the law states. Do you really want Taxed? Controlled? Regulated? This would be a jump backwords in the MJ community!  I won`t go so far as to call anyone stupid if they intended to vote yes to this bill.A better word would be uninformed.


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## Dan Kone (Apr 23, 2010)

markscastle said:


> Why I won`t be voting yes for this bill.Fist off it is only an infraction of the Health&safety code to have up to on oz. in California.Punishable by a fine of no more than $100.00.(if you do not have a medical recomendation from a doctor) The preposed law would allow you to have an oz.but would ad a tax of $50 plus sales tax and allow local goverments to ferther add taxes without any restraints. Instead of paying a fine of $100 for an infraction of the law if you are caught, you would always be caught with large taxes. If you have more than an oz. existing penal codes would still come into play and you could face jail time. The new law would require you be 21 years of age and not smoke near minors(anyone under 21 years of age)or face jail time. This would include members of the armed service that are under 21. Where could you now go to smoke your `legal` weed? Not at a ball game,minors there! But you could buy a beer at a consession stand.How about the county fair? Nope same thing! The park? Nope minor there! Well where could you smoke your legal weed? At home or at a despencery! As a warrant can not be issued for an infraction of the law,you can already do that!(provided you become a member at the despencery as it is for members and not a public place)
> 
> Now about that 5x5 area you can now grow in.Really if you are like most people who smoke you don`t have a place to grow in now or you just don`t want to take the time,but if that isn`t the case the average grower can not grow enough MJ in that small of an area to completely supply themselfs.As it will not be allowed to be sold without a sellers licence you have the choise of a despencery or? Nothing! That`s why the despencery owners are backing this law!
> 
> You see there is nothing in this law worth voting for it! It is a sham to get `Taxes,Controls and Regulations`just like the name of the law states. Do you really want Taxed? Controlled? Regulated? This would be a jump backwords in the MJ community!


I can understand where you're coming from, but I disagree that it is a step backwards. Even a bill that is legalization in name only is a step forward because it gets the general public more accepting of the idea of legalization. Also cities and counties will be allowed to pass laws that are more liberal than the state law. I'm sure a lot of places in california you'll be allowed to grow pounds + have 100sq ft growing areas. 

And yes, I want it taxed. The only thing greedy politicians understand is money. This bill will give them their first kickback. Once they get a taste, they'll want more legalization because it will bring them more money. People won't support legalization because it's the right thing to do. They'll support it because there is something in it for them. When you tax it, there is something in it for them. That's the way the world works.

This bill doesn't give us full legalization, it's just a big step on the path towards that goal. If this bill passes it will lead to more legalization laws in California and around the country. 

If you look at this bill as the final solution to legalization in California it sucks. But you have to look at the bigger picture. It's a lot more than the very modest amount of freedom it will give us. It will lead to bigger advances towards the goal of legalization. That I'm sure of.


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## Dan Kone (Apr 23, 2010)

markscastle said:


> I won`t go so far as to call anyone stupid if they intended to vote yes to this bill.A better word would be uninformed.


I don't think you're seeing the big picture.


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## Moldy (Apr 23, 2010)

> People would not be able to be arrested if marijuana was decrminalized.Decriminalization would void all parts of the penal code involving marijuana and it would be just as if no laws were ever passed involving marijuana.However the Tax,control,and regulate law would cause more people to go to jail under state laws.


In New York City it's decrim and they arrest over 40-50K peeps a year so decrim is not the way to go. BTW I can grow plenty of pot in a 4X4 area without a problem as it's not for sale. You could always go "medical" so where's the problem?

Anytime we can vote against the cops and there fucking machine you gotta take advantage of it. There may be a Tea Bagger running things next time then we'll all be screwed. Get it legal now, JFC!


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## OldManPot (Apr 23, 2010)

generally those who DONT want it legalized are those who are breaking the law in a big way, by either cultivating it for sale, or just selling. they are afraid that their profit margin will dwindle, and thats what will happen. the cannabis cartels will fold up and dwindle away, as well as the illegal cultivators.

it should be legalized, regulated and taxed. 

i had a long email conversation with the bills author here in california via email, and was told that if it is legalized in california, the bill will NOT in any way, shape or form hinder or over ride a medical recommendation. furthermore, whats going to change except for those who are growing or selling illegally wont be collectng huge profits off of it anymore. ive been doing this for the last 30+ years myself, and have been a legal patient since the original bills were passed here in ca. i think its hilarious. humbolts in such an uproar right now because of the pending legalization bill in california, wringing their hands and sniveling . why? cause their whole counties economies based on something that, unless you have the proper paperwork is ILLEGAL. there fearing a complete economic collapse. shit, even the goverators for legalization as is alot of politicians in california, they see big dollar signs, pay raises, and lots of funding they need and want. oh, make no mistake, people can snivel and cry about it all they like, but the new laws legalizing it WILL BE VOTED IN this november. as it stands now, over 57% of registered voters in california are for it, plus, its going to brng alot of pro-legalization people out of the woodwork to vote yes on it.


personally i cant wait until its legalized. 

im with cheech and chong. they think it will be legalized nationwide wthin 3 years. i tend to agree with them.


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## ford442 (Apr 23, 2010)

Old Man - someone else brought it up but i cannot seem to find an answer - when California passes the initiative - will it let anyone out of jail that is already in there for pot? i remember reading that that was one of the clear goals of this year's propositions, but i don't know where i read that.. can anyone clarify?


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## sensisensai (Apr 23, 2010)

I agree. Not on all points but I agree. Decriminalize or nothing if we legalize were just pack pedaling our progress and everyone gives the government something to control. And while were on the subject I urge all oregonians to shut down the cannabis tax and tolerance acts that have been presented. Bad news


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## sensisensai (Apr 23, 2010)

I agree its funny about humboldt and I hate these people bitching for the wrong reasons. I'm a medi grower and make no profit from what I do but the last thing I wanna see is cannabis taxed and regulated by the very people who have tried so hard to abolish it


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## fdd2blk (Apr 23, 2010)

ford442 said:


> Old Man - someone else brought it up but i cannot seem to find an answer - when California passes the initiative - will it let anyone out of jail that is already in there for pot? i remember reading that that was one of the clear goals of this year's propositions, but i don't know where i read that.. can anyone clarify?


it does not address people who are already in jail.


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## KlosetKing (Apr 24, 2010)

As for people who are already incarcerated, everything ive seen, including oregons bill, does not address the people already in jail. I.E., no amnesty, they finish their terms.

as for decrim instead of legalization, ill say it again, and again, and again until people see it...... Decriminalization = Marijuana Tax Stamp. Enjoy your false sense of security with literally NO real protections.


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## azoo (Apr 24, 2010)

what ignorance 4 this post


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## Infiinite420 (Apr 24, 2010)

I'd vote legalization


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## Smotz (Apr 25, 2010)

Legalize It, Don't Criticize It.


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## Pumert (Apr 25, 2010)

dirtnap411 said:


> Why post the exact same thread in two places? Also, get Firefox, you could use the built in spell check. There are 3 decrim bills up in the next election here in Cali, I'll be voting yes to all 3.


actually im pretty sure they are all for legalization not decriminalization


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## tyhasheart970 (Apr 25, 2010)

Good call. The Union is an amazing film. It explains it ALL better than I've ever heard.


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## ford442 (Apr 26, 2010)

gaining civil rights for the individual has been a long slow road.. we won't just wake up one morning with full government support for things.. so - i feel like any step toward ending prohibition is a good one - it may be a compromise, but i want the initiative to pass just so that we move forward.. i don't think it is the time to hold out for something better - this is our chance to take a step in the right direction even though it is not the last..


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## Dan Kone (Apr 26, 2010)

ford442 said:


> gaining civil rights for the individual has been a long slow road.. we won't just wake up one morning with full government support for things.. so - i feel like any step toward ending prohibition is a good one - it may be a compromise, but i want the initiative to pass just so that we move forward.. i don't think it is the time to hold out for something better - this is our chance to take a step in the right direction even though it is not the last..


Exactly. If we hold out for something better we could miss this opportunity entirely. After the economy turns around, we'll lose any chance of passing something like this.


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## Cpl. CornB33F (Apr 26, 2010)

LeGaLiZe!


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## OldManPot (Apr 26, 2010)

yes, but so what if its taxed if you buy it from a store?

im sorry guys, but i dont see the issue there. 99% of the people i know who smoke also grow. there is a provision for growing in the bill. also, if you are in california and have a legal recommendation, your exempt from the law, and after the california supreme courts decision striking down medical marijuana limits, you can grow and possess all you like, so whats the issue with a tax? 




in the last few years, marijuana street prices have already hit rock bottom damn near. when its made legal in november, prices are going to drop even MORE,WAY MORE.

so, lets look at it like this. say right now your paying $240 bucks for an ounce of premo. you can bet that if the laws passed and its made legal for everyone, prices will rock bottom out QUICK. i see ounces after november (within the first year) dropping to anywere from $75 to $125 an ounce for premo. now if your buying it and paying say $75 an ounce for it, and they snack on a $50 an ounce tax, youd still be paying well BELOW what youd have been paying on the street. $125 on ounce (includng the "tax" VS $240+ an ounce? do the math! youd still be paying quite a bit LESS.

and if you dont want to pay a "tax", and you dont grow, its time to start learning how.

also, think about this. californias economy is shit. this law if passed will take a huge wet bite out of californias money woahs, not to mention all of the people that will pick up and move to california just to be able to grow and smoke their own legally, which means an uplift for our economy all the way around. more busiesses will sprig up, which means more jobs,ect.


as far as those already sitting convicted in jail, id bet there will be alot of appeals when it passes and alot of people, (especially the small shit like minor possession,ect) will most likely walk. for those with PENDING charges, id bet the majority of them if not all of them are dropped ( cant convict someone for doing something legal can you, even if it was illegal at the time)

i have no doubt its going to pass.


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## ford442 (Apr 27, 2010)

the main thing is to get the price down below black market value or there will still be dealers and underage dealers... i could almost see a kind of price regulation where you cannot bump the price back up to street value as a store..


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## OldManPot (Apr 27, 2010)

i dont think that will be an issue bro. i think soon as its legalized, prices will drop WAY low on the street. think of it like this. theres always going to be a demand from those people who dont want to take the time to grow it themselves,just like any other gardening. take tomato plants as an example, sure, you can buy tomatos at the store al day long, eve vine ripened tomatos, but no matter how they try, you aint gonna find one at the store that even compares to one you grow in your own garden yourself. i think it will be the same way for cannabis. if legalized the majority of smokers will grow their own. quality vs quantity you know. i have to agree with one of the previous posts also. we need to get this voted in in california now. most of the other states look at california as an example state. we pass laws, they see how it works and then pass the same laws in their own states. with the way our ecnomy is, if we dont get something like this passed NOW, when the economy picks up, there wont be a snoballs chance in hell of getting it passed later down the road. right now its a money thing for the state.


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## DrWhite (Apr 27, 2010)

Resinator420 said:


> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> Marijuana creates one of the biggest unregulated markets in the country with some 55MILLION people involved including people liek me and you. In a sense marijuana feuls america everyday. what do marijuana dealers do with the money they make???? THEY BUY SHIT, RANDOM SHIT CARS, BOATS, HOUSES, STOCKS, INVESTMENT, AND EVERYDAY THINGS FOOD, CLOTHS, GAS, HEALTH CARE PRODUCTS!! take this money, or market away from america and I think 60% of businesses would SIVEARLY suffer or all together shutdown. Alot of people would go crazy.


I call bullshit. Please list any sources for this because I have a hard time believing it.


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## OldManPot (Apr 27, 2010)

Originally Posted by *Resinator420*  

Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.

Marijuana creates one of the biggest unregulated markets in the country with some 55MILLION people involved including people liek me and you. In a sense marijuana feuls america everyday. what do marijuana dealers do with the money they make???? THEY BUY SHIT, RANDOM SHIT CARS, BOATS, HOUSES, STOCKS, INVESTMENT, AND EVERYDAY THINGS FOOD, CLOTHS, GAS, HEALTH CARE PRODUCTS!! take this money, or market away from america and I think 60% of businesses would SIVEARLY suffer or all together shutdown. Alot of people would go crazy."



yea, me too. id like to see some sources myself.

(somethin' else too bro, maybe you should make use of spellcheck before posting someting like that, maybe people would take you a little more serious)

i can see that in HUMBOLT COUNTY, but not nationally. their whole counties economies going to fold when its legalized, and all i can say is its their OWN FAULT. they shouldnt have allowed their counties economy to be based on an illegal activity the way i see it. all i can say is TOUGH SHIT. maybe they should have picked another profession. look at all of the goodies the banks will be repossessing and auctioning off when its made legal cause they cant afford their payments anymore!!!!!!! WHOHOO!..and im gona be standing right there with my fist full of LEGALLY OBTAINED cash to buy their sHit at PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR!


NOTHING PERSONAL bro, but me, i wouldnt even have THOUGHT about posting a comment like that without some sources to back it up posted i the same thread. thats just stupid.


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## FarmerNinja (Apr 27, 2010)

legalize it and then make your business with weed legal. open up a weed bar or something. you want us to keep it legal so that you and other drug dealers can profit off of it and charge people ridiculous prices for decent bud? fuck that. legalize it so that decent people can make decent businesses out of the cannabis culture and industry. not to mention keep them out of jail and able to feed their families. pull your shit together and in 5 years have your own line of organic weed cigarettes. real connoisseurs dont give a shit for mass produced government crap and will still want to taste your delicious fine fruits


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## OldManPot (Apr 27, 2010)

ninja
thats exactly it. convert the illegal business into something LEGAL

now i dont sell or cultivate for anypne but me but what im going to do is when its legalized, im going to open a nursery that carries not only regular strains, but also obscure and rare strains. im going to set it up with a showroom that will have mother plants on display with 30-40 different strains. maybe a color plaque with a nice picture of the plant flowering, and a description of the plant, care and flowering times, medicinal values, and high type. then customers can come in, see the plant and get info on it, and pick what they want. ill alreadu have them cloned in the nursery, so all ill have to do is retrieve them from out back the the customer. that way, not only med patients can come in, but also regular joes. ive already got a buttload of different strains (something like 40 in all, seeds and mothers going) INCLUDING 3 of my own (purple martian,purple meanie AND sticky orgasm (genetics secret right no), but already tested locally by several legal 215 patients ,VERY potent, and very high yield, and extremely tasty!..look for more info here at rollitup.org in the near future) so i should be in the mix. i even spoke to the local sheriffs department and they actually said they wouldnt see a problem and it would be nice to get someone "on the level" in the area....go figure...LOL.....maybe one of these evenings ill sit down and make a complete list of all of my genetics....LOL


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## FarmerNinja (Apr 28, 2010)

oldmanpot we share the same dream. screw the gang bangers and drug cartels and greedy hipsters!!


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## OldManPot (Apr 28, 2010)

got that right!


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## FarmerNinja (Apr 28, 2010)

then i could just be a normal farmer and no so ninja! even tho i make a great ninja


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## OldManPot (Apr 28, 2010)

hehehe

"Ah Grasshoppa!....once you learn the vanishing cannabis technique, you will be a true mastah!"


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## OldManPot (Apr 28, 2010)

im still waitin for resonator420 to post his sources......what happened to him?


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## dirtnap411 (Apr 28, 2010)

I'm in a county where you can't throw a rock without hitting a grower, not Humboldt, and there are some of them that are against the measure on the ballot, but every last one is against it for selfish reasons, or lack of understanding. I'll personally be keeping my doctor's recommendation current, to avoid the ridiculous limits imposed by the new bill, I can't grow enough to meet my needs in a 5x5 area, and I'd go broke if I only bought an ounce at a time, the day is coming when cannabis comes out of the shadows, ready or not.


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## OldManPot (Apr 28, 2010)

yea that was a concern of mine too, thats why i opened the dialog with the bills authors. ill also be keeping my recomendation current ( mines for 5lbs in possession, all times).


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## OldManPot (Apr 29, 2010)

i can tell you that shasta county ca's DA is VERY hesitant to arrest or prosecute growers until we see if this bill passes in november


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## ford442 (Apr 29, 2010)

i would be grateful for a 2' x 2' x 2' cube situated 7' above the ground...  i mean - any legalization AT ALL is better than none.. i don't think we can hold out for something better.. someone is hitting you with a hammer for no reason - do you ask him to use the plastic toy hammer which he seems to like also or do you sit there holding out for the hammer made of feathers that doesn't even exist..??


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## Professor Puff.n.Tuff (Apr 30, 2010)

You cant just legalize it and hope that it stays in the hands of the people. To say LEGALIZE NOW and think that rules and regulations are established enough at this point is not logical. A perfect example is how many legal operations are currently established and are in the process of being shut down by the very city that approved their business permits in the first place. I think that things need to be established and set in stone (so to speak) at least black and white like all other drug laws. To have so many undefined rules leads to patients being arrested and prosecuted. Even if not fully prosecuted they still have tremendous loss in paying for attorneys and the initial loss as to what ever was taken.



OldManPot said:


> ninja
> thats exactly it. convert the illegal business into something LEGAL
> 
> now i dont sell or cultivate for anypne but me but what im going to do is when its legalized, im going to open a nursery that carries not only regular strains, but also obscure and rare strains. im going to set it up with a showroom that will have mother plants on display with 30-40 different strains. maybe a color plaque with a nice picture of the plant flowering, and a description of the plant, care and flowering times, medicinal values, and high type. then customers can come in, see the plant and get info on it, and pick what they want. ill alreadu have them cloned in the nursery, so all ill have to do is retrieve them from out back the the customer. that way, not only med patients can come in, but also regular joes. ive already got a buttload of different strains (something like 40 in all, seeds and mothers going) INCLUDING 3 of my own (purple martian,purple meanie AND sticky orgasm (genetics secret right no), but already tested locally by several legal 215 patients ,VERY potent, and very high yield, and extremely tasty!..look for more info here at rollitup.org in the near future) so i should be in the mix. i even spoke to the local sheriffs department and they actually said they wouldnt see a problem and it would be nice to get someone "on the level" in the area....go figure...LOL.....maybe one of these evenings ill sit down and make a complete list of all of my genetics....LOL




I started a thread for CA residents on the new "patients" forum. If anyone wants to drop by and vote I would appreciate it. Here is the link;

https://www.rollitup.org/california-patients/325679-pass-not-not-yet.html


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## OldManPot (Apr 30, 2010)

yea, but your missing the point. 

legalizing cannabis for EVERYONE has NOTHING to do with the medical end of it. med patients are exempt from the new law.

the reason that the majority of the businesses are getting shut down is because they are either operating illegally, or they dont have the correct permits and the stuff they need. there are LOTS of legally operated dispensaries and CO-OPs out there that dont have any issues with the police departments of counties. how do you explain that?....see all we hear is this place or that place was shut down. if you start digging and get the real skinny, you find that they have broken laws, been either selling recomendations or selling to people WITHOUT recomendations,opened up without the proper zoning permits,ect. ive spoken in LENGTH to my counties DAs office AND the MEU supervisors on the issue, and also to other counties law enforcement and DAs offices, as well as several attorneys on the subject, and generally theres alot more involved in the closing of dispensaries that the general publics aware of.

when its legalized, it isnt going to stay "in the hands of the people". there are provisions for cities and counties to do their own thing. besides who knows what your doing within your own home anyway?

get it on the books and legalized, and then if theres issues down the road, legally amend the law. dont just say "oh, im not going to vote for this because it wont stay in the hands of the people" thats just silly. personally, it really doesnt make any difference on the medical patients end if its legalized for everyone or not, except for those who dont grow will be paying lots less than they are now.. were gonna still be growin our own, smokin our own and doing whatever we ca do legally ( including distributing it to OTHER medical patients for "donations"). this bill is mainly for those who DONT have a medical recommendation.

when i eventually open my nursery up, established clones will ALWAYS BE $6.00,no matter what the strain!!!!!!


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## Johnnyorganic (Apr 30, 2010)

All other issues aside - economic, commercial, medical.

Bottom line: this is about *freedom*. 

Does the government have the authority to invade your privacy; marginalize your employment opportunities; send jackbooted thugs to kick down your door and confiscate your property; force you to live in fear for enjoying a substance that, by itself, harms *no one else*.

Right now the state can do all of that because non-medical possession is illegal.

And for the state: Does the *Federal* government have the authority to *dictate* to the state which drug should and should not be legal? 

No, it does *not*.

This is a *no-brainer* for freedom types. Like *me*!

What do you opponents think about *that*?


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## researchkitty (Apr 30, 2010)

Alcohol was illegal once.

Now its legal.

Bars around the world profit. Markets for super niche drinks and beers.

Weed was illegal everywhere once.

Now its gaining speed.

All the gangsters have to find another underground activity. Or just go legal. I've yet to see why more people smoking weed legally will impact price. Everyone still will buy quality herb at quality prices. CA is just a little overwhelmed because everyone is still trying to earn a 1200% markup. They'll learn, soon.


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## OldManPot (Apr 30, 2010)

Johnnyorganic said:


> All other issues aside - economic, commercial, medical.
> 
> Bottom line: this is about *freedom*.
> 
> ...


dont get me wrong bro, I AGREE with you 100%, but we have to start somewere. id bet that you and i would see completely eye to eye on about 99% of the issues at hand if we had the chance t sit down and eat a steak and yak about it. the feds dont have jack shit to say about anything at state level. problem is is to get some politicans in office that will get a backbone and tell them to get pumped.


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## Nate71290 (Apr 30, 2010)

"Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another."

Where the hell do you come up with a statistic like that? How do you trace dirty money? Besides all that money going towards pot would still be going towards pot lol except one's regulated and one's ridin dirty. Hell it's not like people couldn't sell pot anymore after its regulated anyways... People still sell movies and all other illegal shit ya know?


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## Johnnyorganic (Apr 30, 2010)

OldManPot said:


> dont get me wrong bro, I AGREE with you 100%, but we have to start somewere. id bet that you and i would see completely eye to eye on about 99% of the issues at hand if we had the chance t sit down and eat a steak and yak about it. the feds dont have jack shit to say about anything at state level. problem is is to get some politicans in office that will get a backbone and tell them to get pumped.


 Even though the Feds don't have the Constitutional authority to say shit about cannabis either way, they do it *anyway*. 

The Federal government ignores the Constitution whenever it suits them.

California can *lead the way* for *state's rights* on this issue.

The *only* way to break this stranglehold is for each state to say to the Feds, "*Piss off! This is our business.*"

Opportunity is knocking. I can only hope the *people* of California respond in the affirmative.


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## ford442 (Apr 30, 2010)

it may be important that it happens this year - Obama is willing to give leeway on states' rights - it is something that he believes in.. i don't know about George W Reagan or whoever we get down the road..


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## FarmerNinja (Apr 30, 2010)

oldmanpot im with you hit me up when you open that dispensary hehe 

and researchkitty is right its just like 75 years ago when booze was illegal people were making it and distributing it. i mean now herb has a medicinal value that just makes it gain more respect in a social community. 10 years down the line if its legal people wont be afraid to admit they smoke and it will be a normal social think like "hey lets go have a beer and watch the game" sunday night football marijuana commercials. anyone anyone? ok im stoned sorry... legalize it!


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## OldManPot (May 1, 2010)

naw...not a dispensary, a NURSERY!.........specifically just for clones and plants/mothers themselves. no processed bud, nothing else

you in northern california?....my future son in law and daughter were supposed to move back to california ( there in KY) and he was supposed to help me set it up and run it, but alas, i havent seen hide nor hair of them. might be lookin for a new partner in the near future!....

ive got plenty of genetics to get it goin' too

ive been working on new strains for awhile. ive got 3 that might just be the new hot thing.

ones called 'Purple Martian"...heres what purple martian looks like 4 weeks into its 9 week flowering period. VERY sticky,tons of trichs. VERY potent. ive got about a dozen long time stoners all with 215 recomendations that when i put a strain together, i give them an eighth each and get a first hand report, and every one of them says its sme of the best shit they have ever smoked. VERY easy to grow, VERY pest resistant, VERY tempature tollerant ,ive had it from around 105 degrees all the way down to around 40 with no ill effects.







when this sucker finishes, its literally so loaded with trichs its literally white. hairs are red ,orange and purple. very low key smell when growing. when harvested, you literally need to have good ventilation or it will choke you out of the room! cures to a nice sweet skunk smell about 4x stronger than actual skunk. the taste is very fruity with hints of lemon,cherry,grape,ect ive smoked buds off of this that tasted just like you were eating a big bowl of fruitloops. comes on slow, in between 15 minutes and 1/2 hour, but when it does, its with you about 4 hours. VERY uplifting social high.
that ones gonna be my flagship strain!.....genetics ill keep secret and it will be a clone only (although i do have a buttload of feminized seeds i made). i havent grown it outdoors yet, but it does very well indoors


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## fdd2blk (May 1, 2010)

i'm in norcal.


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## OldManPot (May 1, 2010)

what part?

im roughly 70 miles east redding ca


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## fdd2blk (May 1, 2010)

OldManPot said:


> what part?
> 
> im roughly 70 miles east redding ca



sonoma county.


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## OldManPot (May 1, 2010)

SHEAAAT!

your WAY the f*ck out there from me!

well, just make plans to come up this summer if ive got my shit setup and get some clonage!


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## FarmerNinja (May 1, 2010)

i like that idea of just having a nursery but i hear the feds tend to mess with cloners a lot more rather than dispensaries that dont deal with selling plants. hopefully this will ease up in the future with the new bill and all and the feds will get more lax about it. im definitely an entrepreneur always looking for investments and new ideas to get stuff going. i've been looking for parters for the past year but no one really committed enough to want to work and trust my business with really. im definitely down to partner up on something worthwhile in the future

i live in SF and from that you're saying that martian sounds like the shit! ive got some ridiculous chem dog genetics that are unlike any ive ever seen. this friggen plant grew twice as fast as any other plant ive grown and i've yet to find a way to hurt it! this is definitely a WEED! ive done tests given it bad water and over fert and overwatered/underwatered and stuck clones straight in dirt and the list goes on this plant is STRONG! id love to cross this with a really nice indica like bubba kush or perhaps your martian?!?!?! that would be the shit. the only downside is its an 11-12 weeker but the buds are seriously potent and because it vegges so fast you can start flowering much earlier! check out the buds in my avatar this plant pumps out tops like that with ease and that pic is only week 7 and its over 7 feet tall! the rest of my plants are around 3-4 ft to gage how fast it grew. i smoke everyday due to medical conditions and i would smoke this stuff everyday without gaining tolerance and i gain a tolerance for strains REALLY fast. after a day or two of hitting the ceiling of super silver haze a couple hours later i wont really get high.


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## OldManPot (May 1, 2010)

same thing with me. im a daily also, and the PM is the exact same way. ive got a group of bros who are also 215 and we get together every once in awhile and medicate. i gave one of my bros about 2 grams of the PM, and a coupe days later i saw him. now you have to realize this guy smokes DANK shit, and smokes it like i smoke cigarettes. well, when i saw him he grabbed me and said "SHEEEEEEAAAAT man!.....WFT are the genetics to that PM?" he said " usually i smoke several grams a day, about a gram an hour or so. i smoked a gram of that PM, and was wiped out all day." he said " i had to cut that shit back to about 1/4 to 1/2 gram each time i smoke, and it lasts me about 3 hours compared to about an hour and a half of the shit i get".....anyway, you just got to know this guy and the others. these guys are my age, and have been growing and smoking as long as me, but smoking MUCH heavier, so for him to say that is a major compliment . he's been all over the world and smoked some of the best shit out there. also, the PM is more of a social functioning high. you can function, and when you come down, its nice and easy without any tiredness. great stuff. if we get together, bring your 215 and ill hook you up with a few grams and you can check it out. you WILL NOT be disappointed. be sure though you smoke it either when you get home or plan on staying awhile...LOL


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## mrbunny (May 1, 2010)

it's good to be a ninja bunny....


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## mcgyversmoke (May 3, 2010)

the only people legalizing really hurts are the dealers who are only out there to make tons of easy cash. 
not people who grow for themselves or any of the like.
o and to oldmanpot
im in norcal also chico area.


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## fdd2blk (May 3, 2010)

if they legalize it more people will smoke it which means more people will buy it which means dealers will be making more.


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## OldManPot (May 3, 2010)

not really. most people are smart enough to grow their own, right in their garden, or at least smart enough to get some from a friend who grows it. furthermore, with the county clause in there, i believe that most counties will be growing their own to sell. eventually youll be able to walk into pot stores like liquor stores and buy anything you like for a fraction of what an illegal dealer would charge.


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## OldManPot (May 3, 2010)

i lived in oroville for 17 years. shasta county now. im about 2 hours from you ,give or take


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## weedninja (May 3, 2010)

This is a reply to the original poster- Your a damned fool!


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## fdd2blk (May 3, 2010)

OldManPot said:


> not really. most people are smart enough to grow their own, right in their garden, or at least smart enough to get some from a friend who grows it. furthermore, with the county clause in there, i believe that most counties will be growing their own to sell. eventually youll be able to walk into pot stores like liquor stores and buy anything you like for a fraction of what an illegal dealer would charge.


you would think this, yet all those medical card holders who are allowed to grow still go buy pot at the clubs.


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## ford442 (May 4, 2010)

a lot of card holders are either too old or too sick to be gardening though.. my county does not allow dispensaries at this time and says that it is fine for old and sick people to drive 50 miles to get their medicine every time.. and they do it.. people are also far more afraid of growing than buying small amounts.. nobody really knows who is gonna get their door kicked in for a medical grow.. and sometimes you have people who can't know like loved ones and neighbors who would shit all over you if they knew..
we need to fully legalize if nothing else, just so that all of the sick people who want or need it can have access to it discreetly.. again - if you cannot have your job or family or anyone finding out that you smoke then it would be quite difficult to even get a card and find access to weed - much more so to grow it..


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## rasta juma (May 4, 2010)

legal or illegal?
they both have there pros and cons.
legal it has pros for the sick and for me cause here i can smoke almost everywhere (in front of police) without feeling tense.
On the other hand i see where it would hurt the dealers.


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## OldManPot (May 4, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> you would think this, yet all those medical card holders who are allowed to grow still go buy pot at the clubs.


the people who i know who buy at the dispensaries still grow their own, and either buy at the dispensaries for a variety of different highs and flavors, or buy because they "overshared" and are out until THEIR crop comes in...


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## fdd2blk (May 4, 2010)

OldManPot said:


> the people who i know who buy at the dispensaries still grow their own, and either buy at the dispensaries for a variety of different highs and flavors, or buy because they "overshared" and are out until THEIR crop comes in...


i've been medical for over 6 years now. i come into contact with a lot of "legal" people. most of them do not grow. my neighbor tried for several years as she watched my garden over the fence. she finally gave up and straight up gave me her yard. we split the what comes from that side of the fence. she leaves me alone to do my thing, in turn we both end up happy. 

some people just aren't very good at growing. they don't have the time or place or knowledge. i see people on here all day who struggle and they have their hearts in it. a lot of people "just want to smoke a joint". they really don't want to get involved with the whole growing thing. 

it's hard to see this when you are on a "growing forum". it seems everyone would just grow. in real life though, it just doesn't work that way.


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## OldManPot (May 4, 2010)

well, i have to agree with you there. i have seen some brown thumbs in my time. ive always been fortunate i guess, everything i touch turns green...LOL...... 

i just spent the last 1/2 hour + putting my girls (48+) outsidce to soak up some of that gorgeous sun today. i wish our weather was to the point i could just LEAVE them out, but when my squash and watermelons are still frosting overnight, i think ill wait...LOL!.


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## dirtnap411 (May 6, 2010)

I hear you on that, I'd be putting my ladies outside, and saving on lights and air conditioning, but I live in the middle of the ghetto, or my town's version of a ghetto, walking distance from the jail.


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## thewinghunter (May 13, 2010)

no matter what they do just grow it yerself i aint paying NO BODY to have anything. taxes? im, sick of being taxed for everything, r u not? so they aint getting shit. unless some is too lazy to put a pot in their kitchen.


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## SeniorRaincloud (Jul 1, 2010)

legalize it! are you joking? a chance like this may never happen again!


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## RavenMochi (Jul 5, 2010)

I've noticed alot of hate in this thread towards dealers, with comments like "afraid you'll have to get a real job" really?! Havn't ever done it before, when done right its not as carefree and lazy as its made out to be...I don't consider myself a dealer as I only sell to one client who is a dealer, and I wouldn't wish his life on my enemy. He's had his door kicked in 3 times (not by leo's), been 50k in debt to cartel, kidnapped by a Jamaican gang, and that's not even getting to his job duties. If you don't like dealers, grow yourself, but don't pretend to be more righteous than they are, they aren't cartoon villains they're people trying to make it in this tight world, and no most don't care about anyone but themselves or they're own, but I don't see alot of people that do. I see alot of people act like they care and do nothing to help people when they see them starving on the street, convincing themselves that its they're fault for being hungry and homeless. In fact, in my experience, the people with the darkest personal lives weren't criminals, they were my parents, and everyone thought them to be perfect, church attending, community helping people with no dark side. EVERYONE has a dark side, so take it easy on your local merchants, they may be sleazy, but no more then the police stalking them, or the system itself for that matter... (in usa)


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## fdd2blk (Jul 5, 2010)

My mother was a witch, she was burned alive.
Thankless Little Bitch,For The Tears I Cried.
Take her down now, don't want to see her face
All blistered and burnt, can't hide my disgrace.

Twenty-seven, everyone was nice.
Gotta see 'em make 'em pay the price.
See their bodies out on the ice.
Take my time.

Am I evil? Yes I am.
Am I evil? I am man, yes I am.

As I watched my mother die, I lost my head.
Revenge now I sought, to break with my bread.
Taking no chances, you come with me.
I'll split you to the bone, help set you free.

Twenty-seven, everyone was nice.
Gotta see 'em make 'em pay the price.
See their bodies out on the ice.
Take my time.

Am I evil? Yes I am.
Am I evil? I am man, yes I am.

On with the action now, I'll strip your pride.
I'll spread your blood around, I'll see you ride.
Your face is scarred with steel, wounds deep and neat.
Like a double dozen before ya, smells so sweet.

Am I evil? Yes I am.
Am I evil? I am man.

I'll make my residence, I'll watch your fire.
You can come with me, sweet desire.
My face is long forgot, my face not my own.
Sweet and timely whore, take me home.

Am I evil? Yes I am.
Am I evil? I am man.

My soul is longing for, await my heir.
Sent to avenge my mother, sweep myself.
My face is long forgot, my face not my own.
Sweet and timely whore, take me home.

Am I evil? Yes I am.
Am I evil? I am man.

Am I evil? Yes I fuc*ing am.
Am I evil? I am man, yeah.




[video=youtube;pB6Fa_pJqRQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB6Fa_pJqRQ[/video]


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## Maui Waui (Jul 5, 2010)

I never understood the deal with decriminalization i mean do you really think the feds are gona let you grow ur pot tax free? i think not, so legalizing it is the only option that means we dont have to worry about goin to jail over it.


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## RavenMochi (Jul 5, 2010)

I've noticed alot of hateful comments towards dealers, calling them sleazy, and comments like "afraid you'll have to get a real job" Really. Becuase its only the criminals that are sleazy, are you serious. NEWS FLASH, if your smoking pot in the usa, your a criminal, so where does this self-righteousness come from? Have we really convinced ourselves that these "criminals" are cartoon villains with no redeeming qualities? Back when the us was fighting in nam, we told our soldiers that they didn't feel pain like we do. We like to say that about other people like somehow were better. Sad truth is I've met dealers that were more trustworthy than my own blood, and that is no exageration, and none in my fcked up family are dealers, they are those everyday people you think of when you think avg joe/jane. And they're dark secrets will make most dealers I know feel like saints. In fact, to date, the sleaziest people I've ever known wore suits, they didn't sell drugs. 

Also your forgetting, in the wonderful us of a, if you get busted for a felony, no matter what the circumstance, your going to have hell finding a descent job. Its almost like they're forcing them to stay in crime by ensuring they can't get any other job. And yea, I'm sure you could come back with, they may not be able to get a good, job, but a legit jobs better than a illegal one anyday...but thats not very realistic. I have problems keeping ends met here and I get payed 10/hr, with wife and kid, doing it on min wage doesn't even seem realistic. And when your the dad busting his ass at the only job you can do, and you still can't provide for your kid, your going to do what ever it takes if your woth have your salt. But I guess doing that makes them "sleazy criminals." Which that coming from a forum full of potheads, most of which live in countries were it is illegal, seems like it would take some serious gall... 

As far as it being legalized, It would hurt people I know, and I would feel bad for them, as for me, I'd be trying to get a growers permit if it was needed, and open up a small smoke shop...


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## Hogg (Jul 6, 2010)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...


You are just a greedy bastard! LoL..People like you are the main reason I started growing my own and I will be glad when mj is legalized and you are put outta business. You will then have to get a real job. LEGALIZE IT!!!


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## WWShadow (Jul 6, 2010)

All the money that is being spent on over priced weed will be able to be used for people to better support thier families and other necessities or luxuries. the money will always be there in some form. the huge cartel growers are the one that are gonna be crying over lost revenues, lol.
The south is like 50 years behind the rest of the country. I never heard of mmj until earlier this year. I never thought about it, I haven't smoked it since I tried it as a teen. Then I started lookin for herbal remedies to try & get off all these f'ing pain killers & muscle relaxers I'v been on for the past 4 yrs. I spend nearly $400 a month on RX's. With mmj I could cut that to nearly $40.00. NOt much I can do about the asthma, unless anyone has a suggestion for getting around that?
I got no problems with bible thumpers but they shouldn't be able to dictate how we live. We are supposed to have separation between church & state anyway but the bible thumpers will no doubt keep the south out of mmj as long as possible much less decriminalize or legalize. Stranger things have happened though.


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## RavenMochi (Jul 6, 2010)

I'm in the south (tx) and I've been smoking pot as a home rx since I was 11 (am 30 now) as an anti depressant/apatite inducer...a friend saw I needed it, smoked me out my first bowl, and its been my meds ever since 

Your lying to yourself WWShadow if you think the cartels are the only pockets that will be hurting...


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## cmckean (Jul 7, 2010)

I am happy to inform you that Oregon only received 6000 of the 85000 sigs required so we will not be legalizing. There is just too many people who need the profit from marijuana in our society due to crimes committed in the past that do not have the right to work, therefore, I am against legalization of marijuana for regulatory use. However, if they threw it on the ballot without regulatory use I would vote YES in a heartbeat! I would also vote YES to the legalization of the seed! The reason being is the fuel supply. I like hempseedoil powering my vehicle because its safer on the Ozone layer! Whether you grow weed for profit or have been caught embezzling millions of dollars from a company you can be happy to know marijuana is staying illegal in Oregon.


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## RavenMochi (Jul 7, 2010)

&#8224;L&#8224; I don't think it was even voted on here in tx...but just as well, I agree with you, there are two many people that don't have the right to work because of they're records...keep in mind that it could happen to any of us growing illegally. Here you can be a hard working citizen with a setup just for you and your own, if you get busted, FELONY. than you have to deal just to make ends meet. That's why I also don't disagree with the shallow stereotype of the good for nothing drug dealer...it just not a fair assessment, in fact its rooted in hypocrisy.
&#8224;steps off soap box and loads a bowl&#8224;


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## spoofyman (Jul 7, 2010)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...


Cool Story Bro. I'm Glad You Watched The Movie "The Business Behind Getting High" Then Decided To Educate Us. Next Time Just Write Watch This Movie And It Will Save You Time.


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## fdd2blk (Jul 7, 2010)

SAN FRANCISCO &#8212; A new study says legalizing the recreational use of marijuana in California could sharply drive down prices for the drug and possibly undercut the tax windfall that supporters have touted. 

The study published Wednesday by the RAND Drug Policy Research Center says "considerable uncertainty" surrounds the state ballot initiative. It would allow adults, 21 and over, to possess an ounce of marijuana and cities and counties to license and tax commercial pot sales. 

The authors predict that retail marijuana prices could drop from $375 an ounce under the state's current medical marijuana law to as low as $38 per ounce. 

According to the RAND analysis, consumers would pay more than that &#8211; about $91 an ounce &#8211; once taxes imposed by local governments are figured in.


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## bajafox (Jul 7, 2010)

Has anyone grown an ounce of high grade marijuana for less than $38?


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## researchkitty (Jul 7, 2010)

I've done the cost analysis, and where I am power is half of the cost it is in California........... It costs me $34.11 per ounce to grow. My costs are medium, I'm not a larger grow op, but I'm not a kid in a closet either. The more you grow the more your costs go down, nutrients in larger quantities, lights at discounts for volume, etc....

If I was in California, my costs would be around $40 per ounce.

I cant keep it on the shelves at $4000/lb, its presold a week before harvest.

Where do all these new legal stoners expect to buy from? New legal growers? Pffft. Those will come but it'll take a few years for them to all learn and have a product worth smoking. Prices should spike before the law hits because everyone will "wanna try it", or at least will stock up!


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## researchkitty (Jul 7, 2010)

Two Pounds of herb from a single 1000w lamp:

1000w of flower power: $40+$40 = $80 (2 months)
1000w of veg power: $30
Fan/accessory/pump power: $2/mo = $6
Nutrients: $160 for veg and flower
Water: $4
Light Failure Plan: $15 (Figures a new light every 6 months, and adds the monthly cost of that)
Seed Cost: $90
----> Total $295.00 for the ingredients with clones or free seeds, and $385 with expensive seeds at $10/seed.

$385 / 32oz = $12.03 / ounce of weed cost
$385 / 16oz = $24.06 / ounce of weed cost

So if you grow a pound off of a 1000w light, it cost you $24.06 to grow. If you get two pounds off that same light you get $12.03 per ounce to grow.

The last time I did the math I lived out of the country so I just re-ran it with current numbers.

Even if you spend double on electric or nutrients or water its still cheap as fuck to grow.


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## bajafox (Jul 7, 2010)

So that explains why growers want to vote no on it, they're making over $200 an ounce! lol


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## fdd2blk (Jul 7, 2010)

bajafox said:


> So that explains why growers want to vote no on it, they're making over $200 an ounce! lol


that might explain why SOME growers are against it. it does not explain why ALL growers are against it. 


are you willing to be taxed 100+% on an ounce of pot. because you will be if the prices drop to those numbers. people will stop growing. more people will end up going to legal clubs. clubs have "overhead". do you think they will lower their prices?

lower ounce prices mean LESS sales tax as well. how does that help the state? 

this bill is a TRAP!!!!!!!


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## ganjaluvr (Jul 7, 2010)

I say legalize the shit. seriously..

I'm not a dealer.. I don't sell any of what I grow. Just smoke it..

never have more than 3 plants (3plants max) growing during each grow. 

So, I'm for legalizing it. Sorry.. but that's the way the cookie crumbles. 

Just because they legalize it.. doesn't mean I'm going to stop growing my own. 

peace..


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## fdd2blk (Jul 7, 2010)

ganjaluvr said:


> I say legalize the shit. seriously..
> 
> I'm not a dealer.. I don't sell any of what I grow. Just smoke it..
> 
> ...



if it were only that simple there would be no debate.


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## thriller.in.guerrilla (Jul 7, 2010)

but wait.. I'm still not quite sure. If weed is legalised(English spelling before I get a *Facepalm*) all the money spent on it just disappears? So nobody would make any money from pot anymore? Same way that nobody makes any money from beer... oh no wait.

Your argument is pointless and invalid.


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## ganjaluvr (Jul 7, 2010)

thriller.in.guerrilla said:


> but wait.. I'm still not quite sure. If weed is legalised(English spelling before I get a *Facepalm*) all the money spent on it just disappears? So nobody would make any money from pot anymore? Same way that nobody makes any money from beer... oh no wait.
> 
> Your argument is pointless and invalid.



Whos this guy talking to? LOL.


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## samtheham420 (Jul 9, 2010)

dontexist21 said:


> Everything that you say about legalization of marijuana is false. Legalization of marijuana will actually lead to MORE jobs AND less people being thrown in jail. In your argument, which I find ill informed, you state that 90% of money created in the United States comes from the marijuana industry. This is wrong, there is no way that this could be true since most of our economy in some way shape and form is actually fueled by the major corporations. Unless Ford is creating cars that run on hemp, there is no way that this company is profiting from the sale of marijuana to support these claims.
> 
> If you imagine a small town in America, one which has mostly American made cars you will see that 99% of those people do not acquire their income from the Black Market. This hypothetical town can be seen as a representation for the rest of America in terms of what they buy and where the money goes to and circulates in the rest of the economy. Now take your drug dealers in the economy, some of them might acquire their product by growing it themselves. While this might be a few people, it will be a minority of people. Most of the dealers will acquire their product from a larger distributer. This weed will most likely come from Mexican drug cartels, or some other gang affiliated entity. Most of the time the money that they acquire does not go back in the economy, it usually get stashed away, where it will later be used to fund other CRIMINAL enterprises.
> 
> ...


That's what i'm saying! Legalize that shit! =D


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## RavenMochi (Jul 9, 2010)

I think the prices would stay the same actually. The Fake Legal weed cost about as much as an equal wait in shwag, and 5 times as nasty...If business owners know they can get $200 oz, guess what they'll charge... $199.99/oz...legal mass production isn't about saving us money, it will be about making corporations money like they do on everything else, including water!


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## ford442 (Jul 9, 2010)

http://www.mapinc.org/norml/v10/n530/a01.htm?134


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## dam612 (Jul 9, 2010)

well if its legal, then it would be legal to grow it. so why not free pot?


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## bajafox (Jul 9, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> that might explain why SOME growers are against it. it does not explain why ALL growers are against it.
> 
> are you willing to be taxed 100+% on an ounce of pot. because you will be if the prices drop to those numbers. people will stop growing. more people will end up going to legal clubs. clubs have "overhead". do you think they will lower their prices?
> 
> ...


I am still not completely sure if I am for or against the bill. I'm a registered independent, I probably won't make up my mind until I have a pen in my hand and in the voting booth.

If the prices drop to $38 an ounce and a customer had to choose between paying 100% taxes on that, let's say we round that up to $100/oz as opposed to paying $200+/oz like we do now, I would say that customer is a fucking moron for voting against Prop 19.

I like things the way they are now, but I know a lot of people who will start smoking if they legalize it and I would hate to see them miss out on something that is so good just because of some stupid law that could throw them in jail if they do


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## R3DROCk9 (Jul 10, 2010)

I agree with baja last post mostly ...


My thing is if this new bill passes (i live in Cali right now) the bill state says that you can only posses an ounce and have a growing space of 25 square feet ...that's down fromthe current 1/2 possession and 64 square feet. 

To me....it would be hard to make donations to collectives in order to offset costs. I don't think we should be charged at all for a plant. 

A 5X5 area is too small to maintain your own self sufficient garden IMO....it is already VERY easy enuff to get a medical card here as MJ cures many ailments....so it IS already legal!!

BTW I wuz jus posting on another one type of this thread....I forgot the section, tho. The dude posted the exact bill on the thread...I dunno, try looking at my recent posts or wutever to find.........


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## ford442 (Jul 11, 2010)

i say that even if we got 2 square feet it would still be a step in the right direction.. we will just have to compromise for a while until things settle down to real fair trade - like after alcohol prohibition the brewers were only allowed to make a certain amount and potency of booze - then the restrictions eased off slowly.. the same goes for the heavy tax - i can see it being necessary for tobacco to relieve health costs - but, when people see that an oz is only worth $40 and they are paying double or more i think that the demand will change and the tax will go down to fit the legitimate value of the product..


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## DrChronic921 (Jul 11, 2010)

NO, Vote yes for prop 19 to leaglize and regulate. because it should be free for everyone to enjoy leaglly. so wat if the people who sell weed now cant make money on it anymore. there will always be ways to make money, but think of all the lives that the laws against mary have ruined. now i know when i smoked it, i never thought it shoulda been illeagle in the first place so im voting for it to be legal. really more along the lines of voting against discrimination. if mary becomes legal, employers wont be able to discriminate against the people who enjoy her love.


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## R3DROCk9 (Jul 11, 2010)

What are you ppl not understanding?????

IT IS ALREADY LEGAL!!!!!

you go to a doctor, tell him about your migranes, lack of sleep, depression, muscle pain, wutever....and he gives you a recommendation.....

What this bill does is lower our growing, consumption, and carrying laws...it even states in the bill that you can ONLY smoke in private residences and places....that's no different than it is NOW.....so if you think you can jus light up while walking down the street, YOUR WRONG



n e ways....


VOTE NO NO NO


P.s. The step in the right direction was made 14 years ago....now is the time when government starts to scale back on our involvement towards their own agenda--OUR MONEY

wake up you sleepy stoners.


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## erice73 (Jul 11, 2010)

Thats just crazy to vote no. My own personal opinion is the only people voting no would be the old timers who still think of weed the way they portray it in Reefer Madness and the guys who grow it only to make money. There will still be a demand for weed cause not everyone can grow it because of they might have kids or what not, but you might not be able to get the ridiculous prices you think you should get. Go get a real job and grow your own for yourself and puff in peace.


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## R3DROCk9 (Jul 12, 2010)

Erice73

Read the exact bill to find out why we are voting NO

Therein lies the real answers...this bill is a step towards limiting ppl and controlling their buying power THRU the government.


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## fdd2blk (Jul 12, 2010)

why only an ounce? 




what if i'm going camping for 2 weeks and i need 2 ounces? 




why only an ounce?


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## RavenMochi (Jul 13, 2010)

yea...ummm... I live in tx, so no, its not legal... AT ALL...no rx, they don't care, so if they had a bill to at least legalize its medical use here, I would vote yes in a heartbeat, but as far as cali is concerned, if you live there you should take a long hard look at the bill and find out EXACTLY what it is your gaining and what it is your losing, because the people pitching the bill are only going to tell you what they want you to hear...

though honestly, it may all be a trick period. what will happen if its legalized? governments will have lists of people that smoke, like they have list of people that own guns, hell I hear I'm even supposed to be on a govt watch list just because I'm an eagle scout! . So honestly, if it does get legalized, I'll probably continue as I am, growing as much as I want and keeping my mouth shut about it, I'm sure I'm on enough of those cursed list to begin with...

Conclusion: the govt really is your enemy. Don't trust your enemy, and never take what he gives you.


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## TwistedPulse (Jul 13, 2010)

Decriminalization is definetely better than legalization. If it were legalized, so many dealers would go out of buisness, especially once walmart started selling.


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## Stemmy.S (Jul 13, 2010)

I dont quite follow how legalizing marijuana in the united states could lead to chaos; I guess Im just not high enough to get that one. But if marijuana was legal and was sold in stores that would mean the government would be able to tax it. With the billions of dollers the government would make on taxing marijuana (not to mention the money they would save DEA labor) The United States might have a chance at eliminating our national debt. Vote for leagalization!


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## ford442 (Jul 13, 2010)

the anti's want us to hear them say that there will be chaos with tons of new smokers - then when sales are happening they will come in with cameras and try to say 'i told you so' because it looks like tons of people are smoking..


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## R3DROCk9 (Jul 13, 2010)

Limits :

Reduce possession limit from 1/2 pound (current state minimum, sum counties more) to 1 ounce. 
Also reduce garden canopy from 64 square feet to 25 square feet.


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## RavenMochi (Jul 14, 2010)

wtf?! how is that supposed to be a good thing?


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## rowlman (Jul 14, 2010)

dontexist21 said:


> Everything that you say about legalization of marijuana is false. Legalization of marijuana will actually lead to MORE jobs AND less people being thrown in jail. In your argument, which I find ill informed, you state that 90% of money created in the United States comes from the marijuana industry. This is wrong, there is no way that this could be true since most of our economy in some way shape and form is actually fueled by the major corporations. Unless Ford is creating cars that run on hemp, there is no way that this company is profiting from the sale of marijuana to support these claims.
> 
> If you imagine a small town in America, one which has mostly American made cars you will see that 99% of those people do not acquire their income from the Black Market. This hypothetical town can be seen as a representation for the rest of America in terms of what they buy and where the money goes to and circulates in the rest of the economy. Now take your drug dealers in the economy, some of them might acquire their product by growing it themselves. While this might be a few people, it will be a minority of people. Most of the dealers will acquire their product from a larger distributer. This weed will most likely come from Mexican drug cartels, or some other gang affiliated entity. Most of the time the money that they acquire does not go back in the economy, it usually get stashed away, where it will later be used to fund other CRIMINAL enterprises.
> 
> ...


  I couldn't of said it better myself.


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## bajafox (Jul 15, 2010)

I live in San Diego and I had an interesting conversation with a friend who is also legal under Prop 215. He said that $50 medical grade here in San Diego sells for $75 in Tijuana. A $25 profit is only across the border on an 8th. It's not even legal yet and the fuckin cartels are already losing business.


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## RavenMochi (Jul 16, 2010)

I know here in tx they are, they're having a problem getting in the weight they used to with the "terrorist watch" (despite the fact that the terrorist from the 9/11 came from canada, whose border we don't seem to think much on as a threat) I think its going to drive more people to door indoor grows to meet the increasing demands...


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## prop 215 patient (Jul 16, 2010)

Legalization would destroy our economy further? And where the fuck are you getting these figures? bogus... Legalization will save this country, dont be ignorant.


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## whiteflour (Jul 16, 2010)

Federal rescheduling would benefit the economy. State legalization does nothing for the federal economy. At best legalization is a crap shoot for helping the local economy, unless they can secure some fluctuating taxes. 

California is simply scared that with all the MMJ action elsewhere that they will get out competed in the not-so-distant future and lose their cash cow.


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## Indi (Jul 22, 2010)

whiteflour said:


> Federal rescheduling would benefit the economy. State legalization does nothing for the federal economy. At best legalization is a crap shoot for helping the local economy, unless they can secure some fluctuating taxes.
> 
> California is simply scared that with all the MMJ action elsewhere that they will get out competed in the not-so-distant future and lose their cash cow.


 
There is no such thing as a "Federal economy", but I assume you mean the free market or Federal taxes. If you mean Federal taxes, you're right, Cali's legalization of marijuana will not provide for Federal taxes. But Cali's legalization is a huge battle to win in this fight. It's not the only battle. If Prop 19 fails because we vote it down, that would be like Grant conceding to Lee at Appomattox. If Prop 19 passes, other states will follow suit, and then the Feds will fall in line as well.


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## whiteflour (Jul 22, 2010)

Indi said:


> There is no such thing as a "Federal economy", but I assume you mean the free market or Federal taxes. If you mean Federal taxes, you're right, Cali's legalization of marijuana will not provide for Federal taxes. But Cali's legalization is a huge battle to win in this fight. It's not the only battle. If Prop 19 fails because we vote it down, that would be like Grant conceding to Lee at Appomattox. If Prop 19 passes, other states will follow suit, and then the Feds will fall in line as well.


When I say Federal I mean "Nation". This is a federal state after all. And when I say economy I mean the REAL economy. The people that have jobs and pay income taxes. Not fruitless taxes on goods themselves. If you tax the goods people will find something else. I'm against irrational taxes. This tax is irrational. If we let California get Prop 19 and it's taxes on the book. We can rest assured this will be out the door like tobacco - give it 20 years.


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## smokieb (Jul 22, 2010)

The only part of what you said that I could agree with is vote for decriminalization. Actually, that's not even the right course, outright legalization is what we need.

From the instant I read your statement "How can you compete with perfectly rolled doobies"; I could tell that you had just watched the documentary, The Union: The Business Behind Getting High. It is a great documentary and I recommend it to anyone whether they smoke or not. 

Honestly though, what are you talking about? *Anyone* can compete with that if they're growing for* personal use*. However if one is growing to sell, no, of course they couldn't compete with factories making "Perfectly rolled doobies". The "doobie" quote and the examples you gave of dealers buying houses, boats, cars etc. was taken from a portion of The Union, where they were interviewing 2 former growers/sellers. Point being, unless you're a seller, what is there to compete with???? Your statement made no sense at all.

If the government legalized Marijuana, along with that would be hemp, which has a thousand uses. It's a 2 time a year annual crop which can be grown in virtually any state, creating jobs for farmers nation wide, farmers need equipment, equipment needs repairs, the final product has to be shipped, we would add a new export rather than importing hemp, new factories would need to open to process the hemp seeds, hurds, etc.

I strongly advise that you watch The Union a couple more times (maybe sober this go around) and check out a little book titled "The Emperor Wears No Clothes" written by the late Jack Herer. Your vision is blurred my friend. You may think arguments like this will help the cause, but you're actually doing more harm than good.


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## Dan Kone (Jul 27, 2010)

R3DROCk9 said:


> Limits :
> 
> Reduce possession limit from 1/2 pound (current state minimum, sum counties more) to 1 ounce.
> Also reduce garden canopy from 64 square feet to 25 square feet.


fail. prop 19 doesn't erase medical laws.


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## hillbillybuds (Jul 28, 2010)

Its 2010 and the only reason its not legalized today is ALL the people that smoke it ( for fun or for med ) sits around bitching about whos going to make money off it or some other crap and not out voteing for it. Go fight the Government not each other. So get off your butt get out and do something about it.


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## RavenMochi (Jul 30, 2010)

I wish I could, I wish I could....they're not even voting on it here


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## vic? (Jul 30, 2010)

QUOTE:
There would be millions and billions of dollars to spair for our coutry to use for valuable resources such as healthcare, military, and police for the REAL DRUGS cocaine, heroin, ect.

RESPONSE:
That's a romantic notion. . . . but I don't think any government is ever going to have " spare " money, I don't even think any government is ever going to be debt free. How can they be?


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## vic? (Jul 30, 2010)

Anyway, this voting and democracy is all bullshit. They only give the people what they want to give them, you can only vote on the things that they give you option to vote on.
What about ALL the stuff that goes on behind closed doors that never written down or never talked about in public. What about the people that are REALLY controlling global politics. Do you really believe that the prime ministers, presidents and governors that are in such open view are really in charge? I don't think so my-self. MONEY is in controll, money has a direct influence on the policies of every country.
These situations seem very tricky to me. Civilization and peoples in society need some kind of order, some kind of guidance. But who is going to give out the orders? Why should you be the boss instead of me?
Can of worms!


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## ganjaluvr (Jul 30, 2010)

So, the author of this thread.. is pretty much saying that everyone that votes FOR it.. is stupid? LMAO.. lame and immature.

I'll vote for it if I so please.. its called a free country for a reason.

I'm a registered voter.. and if I want to vote to legalize it.. than that's just what the fuck I'm gonna do.

Capeche?!

Saying "do not vote for legalization, or you are stupid" is really immature. 

What if I say.. "Everyone that votes against legalizing it, is stupid."? It's the same thing...

Let people vote however they want to.. I mean.. its not like your going to have much influence on someones decision to vote 'yes' or 'no'.
Especially me.. I've already decided that I'm going to vote for "legalizing" it.

We've been wanting and pushing to get it legalized for a LONG ass time now.. and now that we have the possibility of doing so.. everyone's going crazy trying to get people NOT TO vote for it. Doesn't make much sense to me..

Make up your minds.. 

again, I say 'YES'. Legalize it.. get it over with.

That's my 2cents on the subject.. 

peace.


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## farmboss (Jul 30, 2010)

ganjaluvr said:


> again, I say 'YES'. Legalize it.. get it over with.
> 
> That's my 2cents on the subject..
> 
> peace.


agreed.

the medical growers have gotten *hardcore greedy* and want to keep it as their own little quiet monopoly.


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## HiGhCoMmAnD420 (Jul 30, 2010)

Yes they can haha


Brody.Will.Grow.Thee said:


> we should not legalize it, then have everyone who smokes be open and casual about it. they cant arrest all of us!!


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## fdd2blk (Jul 30, 2010)

you aren't voting to "legalize it". you are voting to "tax and regulate it". 


there is a difference.


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## DAMRAK (Jul 30, 2010)

?????eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr........................................................................................no


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## Louis541 (Jul 30, 2010)

vic? said:


> RESPONSE:
> That's a romantic notion. . . . but I don't think any government is ever going to have " spare " money, I don't even think any government is ever going to be debt free. How can they be?



Tell that to Andrew Jackson


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## RavenMochi (Jul 31, 2010)

Gladly, 
Dear Andrew Jackson, all your ideals, dreams and aspirations for this country being for and by the people will be crushed, bribed, corrupted, twisted, misrepresented, sold, and generally whored out to Corporations and "special interest" groups. And they did it with money they borrowed from other countries. Sleep well...sleep well.
= Yours Truly,
RavenMochi


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## The Potologist (Aug 1, 2010)

Im gonna be "stupid" I am for Prop 19 and against prohibition. I am against Mexican Gangsters Killing Children over marijuana. There is no time to wait. TO much innocent bloodshed. But if or when u get in a pinch....dont wish for Prop 19...if u voted against.. If voting against it...DONT CONSUME IT...thats hypocritical. You wish to keep it illegal so obey the law johnny citizen. Do whats right .......RIIIGHHHTTTTT. Remember, VOTING HAS CONSEQUENCES...SOME THAT MAY OR WILL BE SHED IN INNOCENT BLOOD...ITS OKAY THOUGH...vote no if it makes you feel important, or that better of an american......

Peace, Love, and Happiness


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## MORD (Aug 1, 2010)

to be perfectly honest the real reason I didn't want it to be legal was so that I could make money on it... but I've given up that aspiration and really just want it to be CHEAPER!!! I'm still undecided... My Mexican gangster buddies certainly aren't for it. lol


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## klmmicro (Aug 1, 2010)

I want it legal all the way around. I am a medical user, but see no reason for it to be in the state that it is. As long as the cartels can make money off of it, the crime will continue to be an issue. Once it is legal, the market will no longer be there for the folks that have taken over the back woods and parks in our country. I can understand the argument of the small time grower not making a living off it any longer. Sorry that the business will dwindle, but the positives outweigh the profit argument.


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## dewbie (Aug 1, 2010)

If cannabis was legal, more and more folks would grow their own- If you want the highest quality at rock bottom prices.


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## dankalotta (Aug 2, 2010)

hey man not only will it hurt some of us it will destroy the communitys because remember in elementry how easy it was to get ciggerettes imagine them all getting joints not that it was that much harder but still if kids dont think its illegal theyl all do it plus all the lames that dont do it that are older will be like oh what its legal now lets try it and get stuck on it and start wasting all there money on it insted of all the other stuff they used to so itl bring down business for all other types except for its own and it will make money for the government yea but it has too many negative effects it should be like how it is now medicine but for all states it should be perscribed like it is now not for everyone... its not made for everyone.


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## The Potologist (Aug 2, 2010)

dankalotta said:


> hey man not only will it hurt some of us it will destroy the communitys because remember in elementry how easy it was to get ciggerettes imagine them all getting joints not that it was that much harder but still if kids dont think its illegal theyl all do it plus all the lames that dont do it that are older will be like oh what its legal now lets try it and get stuck on it and start wasting all there money on it insted of all the other stuff they used to so itl bring down business for all other types except for its own and it will make money for the government yea but it has too many negative effects it should be like how it is now medicine but for all states it should be perscribed like it is now not for everyone... its not made for everyone.


To compare the destruction of cigarettes to the make believe destruction of a legal cannabis is unfair and equally shallow. Its relevance is far shot in trying to compare elementary kids desire of cigarettes to their new found glory of cannabis. Moreso, to say that legalizing it will destroy communities is extremely shallow. There is no evidence of any such disaster. We have had every sort of epidemic in this country. Cannabis does not cause that sort of destruction while BEING LEGAL. Sure PROHIBITION DOES, But not regulation and legalization does not. That is all heresay based. A Hyper-Logical uninformed guess at what to come is a opinion...not something to spread, please. Information needs to be accurate, not overshot with ill advised unformulated hypothesis. 

With cannabis being the Number one cash crop, there is money to be made by everyone. Our Governments need to make money, and they sure will with cannabis being legalized. However, citizens alike will make more off of it being legal than the Governments. IF it does bring down companies ( like pharamacuticals and such) it will be a far shot. Especially in pharamacuticals. Sure it may hurts sales of certian industries, but it wont bring them down. I dont think a one can be accurately described as to how its down fall can be linked to cannabis legalization. That is really far fetched. The pros vs. cons measure of Prop 19 is fairly simple to view. Sure there are to be negatives expected. But we ALREADY KNOW the sure shot PROS of Legalization. The Pro's of legalization can never be overwhelmed by the "assumed negatives". Cannabis was legal before...there have never been any recorded negatives while legal...so only time will tell. If its a "huge disaster" I am sure we will be quick to amend Prop 19 into some form of de facto illegalization.

Peace, Love, and Happiness


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## T0key (Aug 2, 2010)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...


I believe in freedom.

I'm less of a pragmatist


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## The Potologist (Aug 2, 2010)

I think sometimes, those who wish to be negative and shoot down Prop 19 tend to let there own personal selfish agenda's and illogical assumptions blind them from the Need and FACTS that their BELOVED HERB has a RIGHT and a NEED to be FREE  I have found that when you bring to light the hypocracies of voting against cannabis and prop 19 to those who consume it see a great nexus of hypocracies. They then rationalize that in voting against it you are efffectively voting yourself into being a hypocrite. All at the continued expense of innocent bloodshed and a nations outcry for regulation, taxionation, and legalization! DONT BE SELFISHLY HYPOCRITICAL...DO THE RIGHT THING...VOTE YES FOR PROP 19 IN NOVEMBER!!!

Peace, Love, and Happiness


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## budzee (Aug 2, 2010)

If you want a decent education on both sides of the argument, the legalization and decriminalization, check out the suggested above. It's a great source to really make the decision on your own with reliable information.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1039647/


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## The Potologist (Aug 2, 2010)

budzee said:


> If you want a decent education on both sides of the argument, the legalization and decriminalization, check out the suggested above. It's a great source to really make the decision on your own with reliable information.
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1039647/


Thanks for the Link. The movie " The Union: The business behind getting high" is a great film in my opinion. Gotta love those hypocrites who grow cannabis illegally yet dont want it legal for their own selfish agenda. Its obvious it has never dawned on them that the plant has a right to be free. That plant you are extorting is due to its status within political civilizations. Craziness 

Peace, Love, and Happiness


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## deprave (Aug 2, 2010)

[video=youtube;yOEgjkfuMOg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOEgjkfuMOg&feature=fvst[/video]


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## Dan Kone (Aug 2, 2010)

The Potologist said:


> Thanks for the Link. The movie " The Union: The business behind getting high" is a great film in my opinion. Gotta love those hypocrites who grow cannabis illegally yet dont want it legal for their own selfish agenda. Its obvious it has never dawned on them that the plant has a right to be free. That plant you are extorting is due to its status within political civilizations. Craziness
> 
> Peace, Love, and Happiness


For some reason if people want to make a profit off cannabis legally are considered evil greedy bastards. But those who oppose prop 19 because they want to continue to profit off of prohibition are ok. lol

twisted logic


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## RavenMochi (Aug 3, 2010)

you can get mad at dealers all you want to, but why is it once you have a criminal record its hard to get a job at all...then such business ventures become the only alternative, but feel free to villainize them if it helps you sleep better. Anyways, all they're doing is attempting to manipulate the system that manipulates them...


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## fdd2blk (Aug 3, 2010)

"i hate people that grow and sell pot. so i will vote in a bill that supports people who grow and sell pot."


makes perfect sense to me.


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## chef*bob (Aug 3, 2010)

practically the entire medical marijuana community is opposed to this bill, and in this day & age in california almost anyone who smokes is a patient.
im done debating this issue on forums, im just gonna start threads rubbing it in about how the bills not passing. 
ill even make a bet that ill eat a shit sandwich and stop growing if prop19 passes. which it wont.


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## The Potologist (Aug 3, 2010)

If that is the case, I just hope all marijuana users alike are ready for the hills of laughter the Government is going to get out of this. " Who else to fuck up its chance other than stoners"...wonderful messages to the Government. To show the POT STATE not wanting to "regulate and legalize" through Prop 19 must mean that they agree with the US Government that 
this plant has no right to be free. I am firm on saying that the Government is not going to see this as a failure of Prop 19. Who else other than stoner to fuck this up....Crazy people, crazy.

Once we can get past our own selfish thought that we all have the right political views, and our own selfish agendas, only then will this plant have ANY chance at being free...I am totally disgusted at the fact that cannabis users can't get around a glass wall and save this plant when we have the chance. In my opinion, Prop 19 is NOT about regulation, or taxation, or decriminalization ...but about a plants call to humans to be free. To have the social restraints lifted off of the plant....BUT if it makes you free smarter, or more american...or like a political genius....do what you need and vote no.....


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## fdd2blk (Aug 3, 2010)

[video=youtube;9Q13XS_R2mU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q13XS_R2mU[/video]


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## The Potologist (Aug 3, 2010)

*A THREE RING CIRCUS OF FREAKSHOWS*

"Freaks here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA, THE ONLY WAY, to fix it is to flush it all away, ANY FUCKING TIME, ANY FUCKING DAY"[video=youtube;uCEeAn6_QJo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCEeAn6_QJo[/video]


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## Dan Kone (Aug 3, 2010)

chef*bob said:


> practically the entire medical marijuana community is opposed to this bill, and in this day & age in california almost anyone who smokes is a patient.
> .


If that was true then the polling data wouldn't be so close. It's actually a very small vocal minority in the medical cannabis community.


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## The Potologist (Aug 3, 2010)

According to more recent polls, its a very close race with those in FAVOR for Prop 19 leading the way. Its flucated from a high of 56% for to 44%(low point) for it....I just googled Prop 19 and thats where you can check credentials. As of yesterday we stay at 54% IN FAVOR. I also notice that the margin of error is greater for the NO votes than the yes. There is also a factor of undecided to inhear into this equation. Personally, I think Survey, USA is the most accurate. They claim higher rates of 70% on their website ...so  Time will tell,  

Peace, Love, and Happiness

I AM THE POTOLOGIST, AND I APPROVE OF PROP.19 ...VOTE YES IN NOVEMBER


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## Katatawnic (Aug 4, 2010)

chef*bob said:


> practically the entire medical marijuana community is opposed to this bill, and in this day & age in california almost anyone who smokes is a patient.


That's a very interesting claim. In the 11 yrs. I've been a legally sanctioned MMJ patient, I've personally known a whopping *two* others that were also legally using MMJ in CA... and I know a *lot* of pot smokers. That said, though I can't speak for the "medical community" as I've only known two others like myself, I certainly can speak for the myriad pot smokers I know, none of whom are opposed to this bill.


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## TheOrganic (Aug 5, 2010)

Legalizing pot would be a great for America. Yes it would fuck the common drug dealer over but so what fuck them. The way I look at is when all the people around me buy brick and support mexican Imported crap, the last thing I wanna smoke.Or your Mids which is usually not much better but with less seeds and not compacted. I would like to see it recreational nation wide. Just so I could grow with no worries of raids federal or state. Go Cali be the pioneer!!!!!!!!!!!!


Plain and fuckin simple but it will never be that!!


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## Scuba (Aug 6, 2010)

TheOrganic said:


> Legalizing pot would be a great for America. Yes it would fuck the common drug dealer over but so what fuck them. The way I look at is when all the people around me buy brick and support mexican Imported crap, the last thing I wanna smoke.Or your Mids which is usually not much better but with less seeds and not compacted. I would like to see it recreational nation wide. Just so I could grow with no worries of raids federal or state. Go Cali be the pioneer!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Plain and fuckin simple but it will never be that!!


it would be an all around better choice to decriminalize, other then legalize, there is a HUGE difference


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## lakaicorey112 (Aug 7, 2010)

just watch the union the business behind getting high you fake pot smokers


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## ifoundnemo (Aug 7, 2010)

Can i see your statistic for "Right now 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another."

Because I think that number is completely bullshit. same goes for the next statistic of 90%. i also call bullshit.
and 55 million people involved?

I can't take any of this seriously.
P.S. If your spelling was a bit better, maybe I'd believe a little bit more.


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## RavenMochi (Aug 9, 2010)

ifoundnemo said:


> Can i see your statistic for "Right now 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another."
> 
> Because I think that number is completely bullshit. same goes for the next statistic of 90%. i also call bullshit.
> and 55 million people involved?
> ...


Their is an old saying "90% of statistics are made up on the spot, including this one"
As for the spelling, you knew damn well you didn't login to cnn, or a medical journal. So if I tell you its August and I misspell the month, does that mean its not August? Again, great for the ego, not so much for logic. Get over yourself.


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## Scuba (Aug 9, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> Their is an old saying "90% of statistics are made up on the spot, including this one"


extremely good point, when you talk about stats you are just trying to sound smarter then you really are.


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## Milner (Aug 10, 2010)

i disagree.

legalize, utilize and decriminalize.


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## Serapis (Aug 10, 2010)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...


Your argument is about as flawed as those statistics that you pulled out of your ass. You may also want to invest in a dictionary if you expect anyone to take this drivel seriously.


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## Serapis (Aug 10, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> Their is an old saying "90% of statistics are made up on the spot, including this one"
> As for the spelling, you knew damn well you didn't login to cnn, or a medical journal. So if I tell you its August and I misspell the month, does that mean its not August? Again, great for the ego, not so much for logic. Get over yourself.


Don't excuse illiteracy. Typos are one thing, not knowing the difference between fair or fare or pair or pear is just plain pathetic. No wonder third world countries have better schools. We fund them and let our own idiots off the hook.

The only thing you need to do is get over yourself. Typos are fine, but as the other poster pointed out, the idiot OP is full of misspellings, from a damn computer no less. Someone tell him what the red squiggly line means please....

[/end roll eyes]


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## Scuba (Aug 10, 2010)

Milner said:


> i disagree.
> 
> legalize, utilize and decriminalize.


 legalizing and decriminalizing are two different roads, The first leads to a Corporation Industrializing Marijuana, or the Second, we have the same laws as Amsterdam, everyone over the age of *18* can buy up to 5 grams at one time from a single club, there are over 100 clubs in Amsterdam, so if you bought from everyclub you could get a pound of some stanky bud.

I just personally don't like the idea of the government having it's fingers in everything.


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## kloopa (Aug 10, 2010)

Economic genius aside...legalize it, the world won't end. It will just be getting started.


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## hobo jack (Aug 10, 2010)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...


people I need your help, I can only 'approve' of this post is there any way of taking rep away ?


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## timmyc420 (Aug 10, 2010)

*Wow thats going against everything so many ppl have worked so hard for, ppl have spent a lifetime trying to fight to legalize and free the herb. Marijuana is a plant as we all know and was put on the earth to grow, and use for pleasure and medicine. The only ppl who will be hurt by legalization is the blood sucking dealers who try and get rich off ppl like us who want to come home after a long days work and free there minds of the days stresses, or the unfortunate ppl who use it for medicine to cure and or help relieve the various diseases that affect so many of us. I am only speaking for myself and know i am goin to take heat for this but, i could give 2 shits what someone making a living selling something that should be free and growing in every garden thinks. Marijuana will only help the economy think of all the smoke shops, cafe's that will turn up all over, there will need to be growers, trimmers, packagers, transportation,retailers, the list is endless on the jobs that could be created as a result of legalization. Legalization will also regulate cost, which i think is a great thing considering the steep prices we pay for marijuana. Numerous ppl i talk to spend $200 to $600 or more a month on personal bud for a month, that is unreal to me considering how much it takes to grow and harvest. I guess what i am trying to say is i know there is going to be pissed off ppl legalized or not but lets think what motives do these ppl have who want to support the proabition because they may have to get off there asses and get a job. I personally could think of many things i would love to spend my $500 or $600 on like a vacation, or savings. *
* I would love to debate this topic with anyone who is for the proabition of this sacred plant.*

*peace and love *
*and may all your bowls be full, and gardens harvest heavy*
*and god bless , all who dream of a true free world where we can all medicate and intoxicate freely!*


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## RavenMochi (Aug 11, 2010)

Serapis said:


> Don't excuse illiteracy. Typos are one thing, not knowing the difference between fair or fare or pair or pear is just plain pathetic. No wonder third world countries have better schools. We fund them and let our own idiots off the hook.
> 
> The only thing you need to do is get over yourself. Typos are fine, but as the other poster pointed out, the idiot OP is full of misspellings, from a damn computer no less. Someone tell him what the red squiggly line means please....
> 
> [/end roll eyes]


actually growing up I always had above average test scores in any subject I tested in, except spelling. At St. Thomas College Prep High School my freshman year I wrote an essay in 30 minutes and tied for 2nd place against all students, including seniors. So no, spelling doesn't have alot to do with content. Maybe if english is your second language, than I could see how the misspellings would make it hard to comprehend the content, but otherwise your just stroking your own ego. And really, what third world country has better schools, your full of shit. Were not getting our ass kicked by third world countries, unless you think that way of india, I never really considered them any more third world than us, if you don't think so than maybe you don't leave the city enough... Its countries like Japan, China, India, pretty much any country in Europe, etc. Here's an idea, if things aren't were you think they should be, do something besides talking down to your peers to change it. But I guess its alot easier to roll your eyes and convince yourself that your special for passing spelling in middle school. We're all so proud. &#8224;golf clap&#8224;

Yes, I know I didn't capitalize India or English, but you still understood it right? If you want to debate someone, challenge they're logic, going for the technicality just makes it look like you couldn't come up with a real reason. Honestly, I don't see you having a problem doing that, so instead of aiming below the belt to discredit, why don't you just negate the arguments themselves?

My concern for you is this, if all you look at is the superficial, you'll miss out on so much that you could have learned from others. You'll always come up with a reason why you can't learn from others because you see them as inferior. They're is no one on this earth I can't learn from, be it a scholar or an autistic child, or even the sleazy crack head on the street. You can argue this, but its something I've learned from men far wiser than either of us.


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## RavenMochi (Aug 11, 2010)

timmyc420 said:


> *Wow thats going against everything so many ppl have worked so hard for, ppl have spent a lifetime trying to fight to legalize and free the herb. Marijuana is a plant as we all know and was put on the earth to grow, and use for pleasure and medicine. The only ppl who will be hurt by legalization is the blood sucking dealers who try and get rich off ppl like us who want to come home after a long days work and free there minds of the days stresses, or the unfortunate ppl who use it for medicine to cure and or help relieve the various diseases that affect so many of us. I am only speaking for myself and know i am goin to take heat for this but, i could give 2 shits what someone making a living selling something that should be free and growing in every garden thinks. Marijuana will only help the economy think of all the smoke shops, cafe's that will turn up all over, there will need to be growers, trimmers, packagers, transportation,retailers, the list is endless on the jobs that could be created as a result of legalization. Legalization will also regulate cost, which i think is a great thing considering the steep prices we pay for marijuana. Numerous ppl i talk to spend $200 to $600 or more a month on personal bud for a month, that is unreal to me considering how much it takes to grow and harvest. I guess what i am trying to say is i know there is going to be pissed off ppl legalized or not but lets think what motives do these ppl have who want to support the proabition because they may have to get off there asses and get a job. I personally could think of many things i would love to spend my $500 or $600 on like a vacation, or savings. *
> * I would love to debate this topic with anyone who is for the proabition of this sacred plant.*
> 
> *peace and love *
> ...


Instead of hating the dealers, why not hate the system that ensures they can never get another job besides dealing if they're ever busted. Like I said, I know of AT LEAST 2 dealers who tried to get out because they were just tired of the stress, but because of their past records couldn't find work. And yea, they're still dealing. As far as the, "trying to get rich off of us" you've been watching to many movies, they're all some dealers who are doing very well, but those are just the ones you notice, most dealers I know make enough to get by. 
I think legalizing and decriminalizing it would be helpful to our economy, but it will piss me off to no end to have to pay taxes on my weed...I can just see it now, instead of $10 for a dime, it'll be $10.80 with tax....


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## ganjaluvr (Aug 11, 2010)

once again, it doesn't matter to me.. if this gets passed or not. number one, I'm not a resident of California and would never want to live there to begin with... 

California is WAYYY over rated... its not what its cracked up to be really.. IMO.

Anyhow, back to the subject at hand. If I lived in Cali, I would vote however I wanted to vote. I wouldn't let other peoples "opinions" determine rather or not I vote yes or no. Why? Because it doesn't affect me in any way. Even if I lived in California! I would still vote yes for legalizing it. Why? Simple.. because no matter what happens.. if it gets legalized.. or doesn't get legalized.. its not going to have ANY effect on me because I'm going to grow no matter what the laws are.. ya dig?

So, rather or not its legalized or not.. isn't going to effect what I do.. nor will it stop me from growing my own bud. Plain and simple. 

Anyhow, IMO.. your not "stupid" if you vote for legalization.. and your not stupid if you don't. It's called America for a reason.. the land of the free. People can vote however they want to vote.. its up to them as a person.. to determine how they vote.. and personally.. I don't let immature people that say things such as "Do not vote for legalization or you are stupid" get in the way of how I'm going to vote.. nor do I let some childish remark/statement like that get in the way of my opinions. 

anyhow, that's my 2cents on the whole thing. 

peace..


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## Scuba (Aug 11, 2010)

ganjaluvr said:


> once again, it doesn't matter to me.. if this gets passed or not. number one, I'm not a resident of California and would never want to live there to begin with...
> 
> California is WAYYY over rated... its not what its cracked up to be really.. IMO.
> 
> ...


well said, i live in Cali (it's not awesome) and i can say that it wont effect me ether. I live off the grid anyway, i haven't fully gotten off city power but im almost there ^_^. I grow as much as I need to smoke and pay my food bills.


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## Dan Kone (Aug 11, 2010)

ganjaluvr said:


> once again, it doesn't matter to me.. if this gets passed or not. number one, I'm not a resident of California and would never want to live there to begin with...
> 
> California is WAYYY over rated... its not what its cracked up to be really.. IMO.


Actually, it's not. If you've only been here as a tourist then you don't know shit about California.


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## RavenMochi (Aug 11, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> Actually, it's not. If you've only been here as a tourist then you don't know shit about California.


Than why is it here in TX over the past few years we've gotten an influx of Californians looking for work? If it wasn't overrated than I would have thought they'd want to stick it out. Must not be that great. I understand regional pride, don't get me wrong, but don't get worked up over it.


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## Dan Kone (Aug 11, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> Than why is it here in TX over the past few years we've gotten an influx of Californians looking for work? If it wasn't overrated than I would have thought they'd want to stick it out. Must not be that great. I understand regional pride, don't get me wrong, but don't get worked up over it.


I've never had to live more than 5 miles away from a beach my entire life. It never gets above 90 or below 50 degrees where I live. We've arguably got the best buds in the world. I haven't even seen schwag in years. We've got big cities, beautiful forests, snow covered mountains, and amazing beaches. In 3 hours I can go from skiing on a powdered covered mountain to laying on a warm beach. We are currently leading the way towards ending prohibition and medical cannabis. I

Yes, there is a recession right now and it's hard to find a job. But it'll end and Cali will still be Cali.


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## Serapis (Aug 11, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> actually growing up I always had above average test scores in any subject I tested in, except spelling. At St. Thomas College Prep High School my freshman year I wrote an essay in 30 minutes and tied for 2nd place against all students, including seniors. So no, spelling doesn't have alot to do with content. Maybe if english is your second language, than I could see how the misspellings would make it hard to comprehend the content, but otherwise your just stroking your own ego. And really, what third world country has better schools, your full of shit. Were not getting our ass kicked by third world countries, unless you think that way of india, I never really considered them any more third world than us, if you don't think so than maybe you don't leave the city enough... Its countries like Japan, China, India, pretty much any country in Europe, etc. Here's an idea, if things aren't were you think they should be, do something besides talking down to your peers to change it. But I guess its alot easier to roll your eyes and convince yourself that your special for passing spelling in middle school. We're all so proud. &#8224;golf clap&#8224;
> 
> Yes, I know I didn't capitalize India or English, but you still understood it right? If you want to debate someone, challenge they're logic, going for the technicality just makes it look like you couldn't come up with a real reason. Honestly, I don't see you having a problem doing that, so instead of aiming below the belt to discredit, why don't you just negate the arguments themselves?
> 
> My concern for you is this, if all you look at is the superficial, you'll miss out on so much that you could have learned from others. You'll always come up with a reason why you can't learn from others because you see them as inferior. They're is no one on this earth I can't learn from, be it a scholar or an autistic child, or even the sleazy crack head on the street. You can argue this, but its something I've learned from men far wiser than either of us.


If you mean what you say in your last paragraph, you wouldn't mind people pointing out obvious errors in grammatics. I'm not picking on just you. Where I live, we have a 50% drop out rate among high school students. Those that do graduate, most have trouble spelling and reading at a high school level. It pisses me off to see it and not being able to do something about it. There are those that begrudge the spelling correcter in internet forums, however I welcome them. Maybe if you take responsibility for what you write, others will too. We are being left behind by the world when it comes to education.

Take your message above in the quotes... even though it passes a spell checker, it has several grammatical errors in it. That doesn't mean that I can't pick up a grow tip or something from you, but I have to wonder how you would do as a mentor or a parent to a child learning to read or write. I don't believe poor semantics or grammar is superficial. I also do not view that person as inferior, but i do see an area they could improve in IF THEY WANTED TO.

Key words... It's all about the attitude...


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## Katatawnic (Aug 11, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> actually growing up I always had above average test scores in any subject I tested in, except spelling. At St. Thomas College Prep High School my freshman year I wrote an essay in 30 minutes and tied for 2nd place against all students, including seniors. So no, spelling doesn't have alot to do with content. Maybe if english is your second language, than I could see how the misspellings would make it hard to comprehend the content, but otherwise *your just stroking your own ego*.
> 
> Yes, I know I didn't capitalize India or English, but you still understood it right? If you want to debate someone, challenge they're logic, going for the technicality just makes it look like you couldn't come up with a real reason. Honestly, I don't see you having a problem doing that, so instead of aiming below the belt to discredit, why don't you just negate the arguments themselves?
> 
> My concern for you is this, if all you look at is the superficial, you'll miss out on so much that you could have learned from others. You'll always come up with a reason why you can't learn from others because you see them as inferior. They're is no one on this earth I can't learn from, be it a scholar or an autistic child, or even the sleazy crack head on the street. You can argue this, but its something I've learned from men far wiser than either of us.


All of these points *are* valid, which I why I don't bitch at others for not bothering to make their text readable... until the subject is broached. Now more than ever, we rely on communication through typed text than any other form. It is *not* "just" the Internet, as so many argue. Nor is it "stroking your own ego" to ask that people make what they're conveying to others be readable without needing a code book to decipher the text before our eyes. I ignore typos and misspellings day and night, without complaint. However, when numerous people point out that they can't read what a person is saying, the common denominator to said problem is the person not bothering to make their messages readable. That said, I still don't point out the obvious unless (1.) I simply cannot read what's before me, and I truly care about what has been said, or my favorite: (2.) when people point out the vast stupidity of others with such atrocious spelling & grammar that they're begging to be ridiculed. 

FYI, I don't include a "below average" ability to spell in the whole "not bothering" scenario above. My uncle was VP of a "top secret" contracting division in Hughes Aircraft for nearly two decades, is one of the most brilliant people I've ever known face to face or online, and he can't spell to save his life. It's simply his weak point; his brain doesn't work as strongly in that area. ("That's what my secretary is for," he'd always laugh when he'd spell "recipe" instead of "receipt" and the likes. lol) My strongest grades in school were in reading, comprehension, spelling, grammar, etc., and I've never been able to do the most simple math in my head; it's infuriating and often embarrassing, but I've learned to deal with it and laugh it off... without getting defensive about it.

Further, spelling being one's weak point does not excuse the myriad mile-long paragraphs posted all over the place that don't contain *one* period, nor much of anything else to mark where a sentence ends or a train of thought might be taking another direction, etc. The reason I take care to type my posts in a very easily readable format is so that others can read what I've typed without the need to decipher my text... *not* so I may stroke my ego by looking down on others. 


All that said, it's extremely difficult (read: impossible) to argue content when the technicalities don't allow us to know what the content actually is. Especially when there are posts so difficult to decipher that the reader finally gives up, having no idea if the content itself is worthwhile or not, because the text literally cannot be read.

(Most of this is not in direct reference to your posts, RavenMochi, because I can easily figure out what you've typed; I can't honestly say the same for the OP, to whom most of the comments in this thread RE: readability have been aimed.)

Now, to lighten the mood of this portion of the discussion with some fun made at the point of conveying our thoughts in typed text without checking for grammar or context... 

[youtube]OonDPGwAyfQ[/youtube]


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## RavenMochi (Aug 11, 2010)

Serapis said:


> If you mean what you say in your last paragraph, you wouldn't mind people pointing out obvious errors in grammatics. I'm not picking on just you. Where I live, we have a 50% drop out rate among high school students. Those that do graduate, most have trouble spelling and reading at a high school level. It pisses me off to see it and not being able to do something about it. There are those that begrudge the spelling correcter in internet forums, however I welcome them. Maybe if you take responsibility for what you write, others will too. We are being left behind by the world when it comes to education.
> 
> Take your message above in the quotes... even though it passes a spell checker, it has several grammatical errors in it. That doesn't mean that I can't pick up a grow tip or something from you, but I have to wonder how you would do as a mentor or a parent to a child learning to read or write. I don't believe poor semantics or grammar is superficial. I also do not view that person as inferior, but i do see an area they could improve in IF THEY WANTED TO.
> 
> Key words... It's all about the attitude...


50%??!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS?!!!! I didn't make it past that point, thats just...WHERE ARE YOU?!! No wonder your so uptight on the subject , I would to, thats not even...wow....thats all that I can even say about that....
You can talk shit all you want, I've never written an essay that didn't get an A, not ever. I just wrote a proposal for an improvement on a piece of medical equipment, and so far its been going very well. It's crossed the desk of 2 supervisors who loved it, and sent it unchanged to the research in development team. Sorry if I don't put that much effort into my post, I'm here to relax and discuss, I'm not here to be graded or evaluated, namely because I have no need for an approval. Hell, short hand would work for me here, I could seriously care less. I have a daughter and I'm not having any problems with that, so thank you for your concern, but I assure you it is not warranted.
As far as attitude, yours is condescending, so your in no place to talk to ANYONE about attitude. Nor I, for that matter, as mine has been pretty shitty as of late. Can't do anything about it?! Thought about becoming a teacher?! Don't get the idea that you'll save all the starfish, but at least you would be able to help a few.

Though on the topic of teaching my kid, I made the mistake of teaching her the basics of kendo a little to early....so while I was typing this post she picked up a stick and hit me in the back of the head...good swing for a 3 1/2 yr old...owww &#8224;rubs head&#8224;


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## fdd2blk (Aug 11, 2010)

"caterpillar", it's a funny word.


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## RavenMochi (Aug 11, 2010)

&#8224;ROFLAO&#8224; I just took the time to read the post in its entirety that all this has been about.... wow...umm...... &#8224;LOL&#8224; okay, I take it all back, the defenses, everything...&#8224;LOL&#8224; umm..yea, lets consider this squashed. I honestly wasn't expecting it to be that bad....I just, I don't know what I thought, I figured a couple of misspellings here and there, not...well...what it was. My deepest apologies. &#8224;ROFLAO as he reads over the post again&#8224; This is an example every English teacher should show their own students before they ever get their first writing assignment... Great stuff...great stuff....

Oh, about my grammar, if I'm not writing a paper my grammar is fucking horrid, no, not bad, horrid, so I'll make no defense for my grammar on a post, not ever...especially my use of "..." what the hell is that?! &#8224;L&#8224; 

&#8224;LOL&#8224; caterpillar....


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## Serapis (Aug 11, 2010)

I'm in the South, Florida to be exact. Our school system sucks. Yes, we have a 50% drop out rate and one of the highest murder rates in the US.

Raven, our dumb mayor is saving money, so he is actually closing libraries down for 20 hours a week. He is ignoring the drop out rate and the illiteracy we have here.

I'm in college right now (should have done it years ago) and had to work with a group that I was leading to do a research paper for Sociology. I was ready to throw my hands up in the air and cry when I had to put our notes and work into a paper essay. I could NOT believe these people had passed English One on a college level. (it was a prerequisite).

Sorry about badgering your spelling, Katatawnic makes excellent points. It's not everyone's strong suite.


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## RavenMochi (Aug 11, 2010)

WAIT A SECOND, wasn't this thread supposed to be something about a bill in cali?! &#8224;LOL&#8224; I love sativa's...


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## Serapis (Aug 11, 2010)

LOL, exactly Raven.... The OP was a bit of a bender.. lol


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## RavenMochi (Aug 11, 2010)

Serapis said:


> I'm in the South, Florida to be exact. Our school system sucks. Yes, we have a 50% drop out rate and one of the highest murder rates in the US.
> 
> Raven, our dumb mayor is saving money, so he is actually closing libraries down for 20 hours a week. He is ignoring the drop out rate and the illiteracy we have here.
> 
> ...


&#8224;somber&#8224; I am sorry to hear that...That truly is tragic. It must be heartbreaking to see your home crumble like that. I wish you and yours the best of luck in this time of crisis. 20 hours a week? How did that man get voted in...wait, I already know the answer. He knew the right people.


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## Katatawnic (Aug 11, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> ROFLAO I just took the time to read the post in its entirety that all this has been about.... wow...umm...... LOL okay, I take it all back, the defenses, everything...LOL umm..yea, lets consider this squashed. I honestly wasn't expecting it to be that bad....I just, I don't know what I thought, I figured a couple of misspellings here and there, not...well...what it was. My deepest apologies. ROFLAO as he reads over the post again This is an example every English teacher should show their own students before they ever get their first writing assignment... Great stuff...great stuff....


 Now you see what all the remarks have been about, eh?! 



Serapis said:


> Raven, our dumb mayor is saving money, so he is actually closing libraries down for 20 hours a week. He is ignoring the drop out rate and the illiteracy we have here.


That's how it's been in CA in general. Our Governator loves to take away from the schools, libraries, disabled people's already meager checks, etc. I'm scared of who's gonna be in charge next, but I certainly won't be sad to see *him* go.



> Sorry about badgering your spelling, Katatawnic makes excellent points. It's not everyone's strong suite.


Or even everyone's strong suit.  Sorry, but considering the most recent posts, I just couldn't resist! 



RavenMochi said:


> WAIT A SECOND, wasn't this thread supposed to be something about a bill in cali?! LOL I love sativa's...


Me too, but it's the indicas that can make me outright stupid.


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## Punk (Aug 12, 2010)

Resinator420 said:


> If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.
> 
> Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.
> 
> ...


YA DUDE, because now that the government regulates beer, I can't make the beer I want. IMO, there's only two major groups that don't want weed legal. The DEA, and commercial growers. Which one are you dude?


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## Dan Kone (Aug 12, 2010)

Punk said:


> YA DUDE, because now that the government regulates beer, I can't make the beer I want.


And don't forget, since beer is legal and the corporations have taken over the alcohol market, that must mean you can only buy coors light. There must be no such thing as a small/medium/mirco brewery since the evil corporations and government took over the market and pushed out all the little guys right?


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## RavenMochi (Aug 13, 2010)

Punk, I still don't see what the issue is for the commercial growers... If its decriminalized or legalized, then can't the commercial grower get whatever permit will be required and continue the course, now selling it to legal customers as opposed to illegal ones?!! Am I missing something? Lets face it, we can all grow our own produce, but most of us still go to the grocer for that, so even if no permits required, there will still be money in it. And if its not as much, so what, now you can grow outside without limits to make up for it...again, I'm missing something, aren't I?


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## mygirls (Aug 13, 2010)

i vote no..


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## Polecat (Aug 13, 2010)

Punk said:


> YA DUDE, because now that the government regulates beer, I can't make the beer I want. IMO, there's only two major groups that don't want weed legal. The DEA, and commercial growers. Which one are you dude?


Man I wish you could still get untaxed liquor. Oh no wait a minute, I do. As a matter of fact its the only kind I buy. 

Apricot brandy. YUM!!!


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## Polecat (Aug 13, 2010)

If pot is sold like tabacco. You can grow your pot and take it to auctions were the best pot gets the best price. I could see were this could scare some comm. growers.


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## mygirls (Aug 13, 2010)

Polecat said:


> If pot is sold like tabacco. You can grow your pot and take it to auctions were the best pot gets the best price. I could see were this could scare some comm. growers.


every state will be diffren when it comes down to it.. oregon will be a fucked up state..


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## Polecat (Aug 13, 2010)

mygirls said:


> every state will be diffren when it comes down to it.. oregon will be a fucked up state..


Every state MJ is not completely legal in is a F'd up state. Seems like all my friends eat pain pills like M amd M's and they are legal to obtain with a scrip. Goverment needs to quit hate'n on the stoner.


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## Scuba (Aug 13, 2010)

Polecat said:


> Every state MJ is not completely legal in is a F'd up state. Seems like all my friends eat pain pills like M amd M's and they are legal to obtain with a scrip. Goverment needs to quit hate'n on the stoner.


 Great point, I don't see how pill poppers don't get any flak and it's all being directed at a naturally growing plant, kinda hypocritical of the Fed government. It's just easier to shove pills down your throat then have your become mentally aware.


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## mygirls (Aug 13, 2010)

Scuba said:


> Great point, I don't see how pill poppers don't get any flak and it's all being directed at a naturally growing plant, kinda hypocritical of the Fed government. It's just easier to shove pills down your throat then have your become mentally aware.


may be from looking at the goverment stand point, but as for county cops in my area they sure do hammer down on the duii's here.. most of them are pills over drinking.


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## Dan Kone (Aug 13, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> Punk, I still don't see what the issue is for the commercial growers... If its decriminalized or legalized, then can't the commercial grower get whatever permit will be required and continue the course, now selling it to legal customers as opposed to illegal ones?!! Am I missing something?


Yes. You're missing the fact that they will face more competition possibility forcing them to take less profit. It's the "I gots mine" mentality. They are already getting paid, why would they want to change anything?




RavenMochi said:


> Lets face it, we can all grow our own produce, but most of us still go to the grocer for that, so even if no permits required, there will still be money in it. And if its not as much, so what, now you can grow outside without limits to make up for it...again, I'm missing something, aren't I?


If you were gouging customers by making a ~500% profit on the produce you were growing you might not want to make growing vegetables legal to grow either. You'd probably be happy with the way things are.


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## RavenMochi (Aug 13, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> Yes. You're missing the fact that they will face more competition possibility forcing them to take less profit. It's the "I gots mine" mentality. They are already getting paid, why would they want to change anything?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They are making that much profit!! We started growing our own vegetables, and while initially getting the yard tore up and good soil in cost a bit, up keeping it won't be nearly as bad because by next year my HUGE compost pile will be ready, and the seeds for vegies are cheap as dirt....no, take that back, much much much cheaper than dirt...

I see what your saying about the greed though, I'm amazed at how many times I've seen people fuck themselves out of making alot more money because they let their greed fuck them...


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## Rhyspect (Aug 14, 2010)

HOLD ON... you don't want to legalise it, because it might cause a global recession ... WE'RE IN A GLOBAL RECESSION!!!!!!! what harm could the government cause by regulating it and taking the money from crack and heroin dealers and putting it in the pockets of the average citizen that likes to smoke a bit on the week end??? the only people who wouldn't want it legalised are the people who are dealing it along with harder drugs that won't be legalised... and even if you were a clean and clear all weed dealer you could grow and sell weed for shops and market places, and it wouldn't even stop the tax dodgers as it'd be easy to smuggle weed and keep most of your old custom as you would save at least 50% on tax... legalising just makes it easy for the average person to try it and like it. and let's be fair, if everyone tries it, no one will look down upon it.


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## RavenMochi (Aug 14, 2010)

Rhyspect said:


> HOLD ON... you don't want to legalise it, because it might cause a global recession ... WE'RE IN A GLOBAL RECESSION!!!!!!! what harm could the government cause by regulating it and taking the money from crack and heroin dealers and putting it in the pockets of the average citizen that likes to smoke a bit on the week end??? the only people who wouldn't want it legalised are the people who are dealing it along with harder drugs that won't be legalised... and even if you were a clean and clear all weed dealer you could grow and sell weed for shops and market places, and it wouldn't even stop the tax dodgers as it'd be easy to smuggle weed and keep most of your old custom as you would save at least 50% on tax... legalising just makes it easy for the average person to try it and like it. and let's be fair, if everyone tries it, no one will look down upon it.


Thats true... The negative stigma placed on pothead pisses me off. My parents tried to tell me when I was kid that pot killed your motivation, and he never new any that did anything with themselves. Probably because he didn't know to many, up to date one of the most successful corporate execs that I've known personally was a pothead, and I didn't know it till my friend divorced him (she was an idiot, the guy was the shit...6 figure income, down to earth, got her whatever she wanted, did all the romantic shit, the whole 9 yards) We went to move her stuff out, and I had to use the bathroom, I'll be damned if there wasn't a bong with weed shake all around it..wish I had known before, he would have been cool to get high with, just one of those fun people to be around...


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## fdd2blk (Aug 14, 2010)

funny how anyone voting no is IMMEDIATELY insulted. called a greedy drug dealer. 

if you have to insult someone to try to get them to agree with you then you are LOSING. 






those who vote yes are those who encourage drug use among children. prop 19 will virtually open the door for teenage heroin use. it's hard to believe that the selfishness of a bunch of brunt out hippies would be the demise of todays youth. 


see how easy that is?


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## Mindmelted (Aug 14, 2010)

Fuck the kids of today..

They are a lazy and stupid generation.


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## fdd2blk (Aug 14, 2010)

Mindmelted said:


> Fuck the kids of today..
> 
> They are a lazy and stupid generation.



hahahahahha


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## Dan Kone (Aug 14, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> funny how anyone voting no is IMMEDIATELY insulted. called a greedy drug dealer.
> 
> if you have to insult someone to try to get them to agree with you then you are LOSING.


And what do you do for a living?  Yeah, exactly.

I have no problem with anyone growing/selling weed for a living regardless of if they are doing it medically, legally, or illegally. It shouldn't be illegal in the first place so there is nothing wrong with growing/selling it. But a lot of people do want to keep prohibition just because they are making money off it being illegal/semi-legal. You can't deny that...


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## fdd2blk (Aug 14, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> And what do you do for a living?  Yeah, exactly.
> 
> I have no problem with anyone growing/selling weed for a living regardless of if they are doing it medically, legally, or illegally. It shouldn't be illegal in the first place so there is nothing wrong with growing/selling it. But a lot of people do want to keep prohibition just because they are making money off it being illegal/semi-legal. You can't deny that...


i blow a lot of glass to help pay my bills. what does that have to do with anything? 

i do NOT fear any drop in the market so to say i am voting no because of what i do makes no sense to me.


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## mygirls (Aug 14, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> funny how anyone voting no is IMMEDIATELY insulted. called a greedy drug dealer.
> 
> if you have to insult someone to try to get them to agree with you then you are LOSING.
> 
> ...


and i don't sell pot.. i donate to my club..


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## BoomerBloomer57 (Aug 14, 2010)

Briefly,
or mvf will blow his last gasket,,,,,,

No on 19

bb57^

Free The Plant


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## RavenMochi (Aug 14, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> funny how anyone voting no is IMMEDIATELY insulted. called a greedy drug dealer.
> 
> if you have to insult someone to try to get them to agree with you then you are LOSING.


 

As far as todays kids being lazy and stupid, I disagree...don't get me wrong, its a generation of little bad asses, I don't know where your at, but some of the kids over here have already started to get their hustle on...lazy my ass, these kids aren't playin at all...


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## fdd2blk (Aug 14, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> As far as todays kids being lazy and stupid, I disagree...don't get me wrong, its a generation of little bad asses, I don't know where your at, but some of the kids over here have already started to get their hustle on...lazy my ass, these kids aren't playin at all...



psssst, it was "sarcasm".


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## RavenMochi (Aug 14, 2010)

&#8224;LOL&#8224; I'm being serious!! These little bastards here ain't playin... think I'm lying? go to the east side of probably any major city in the U.S., check em out and get back to me...  I shit you not you'll find some kids not but in grade school already gettin their hustle on and proud of it...don't take them as a joke just because their children...


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## BusterBawls (Aug 15, 2010)

I think you have a point, although I think your percentages are off a bit. I also think there are so many strains, and people that like different strains, that no company can ever satisfy the population. Their weed will never be as good as the weed people on here grow, and there would still be a marked for the good stuff. I support decriminalization, especially on the federal level. No one should ever lose years of their life for a victimless crime. Hopefully someday people will see past the propaganda and see marijuana for what it really is. A harmless herb enjoyed by anyone and everyone. It bridges all people and cultures from the middle aged white suburbanite, to the aboriginal bushmen... And EVERYONE in-between.


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## mygirls (Aug 15, 2010)

*Calif. Chamber: Pot law would allow smoking at work *




Supporters and opponents of a ballot measure to legalize marijuana in California are dueling over the law's possible effects on employers and the workplace.


<DIV id=fin_moduleleft class="ui-tabs ui-widget ui-widget-content ui-corner-all"><DIV id=fin_storysection class="ui-tabs-panel ui-widget-content ui-corner-bottom">Story Published: Aug 12, 2010 at 3:40 PM PDT 





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Comments (1) 




SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Supporters and opponents of a ballot measure to legalize marijuana in California are dueling over the law's possible effects on employers and the workplace.

The California Chamber of Commerce claimed in a legal analysis released Thursday that Proposition 19 would lead to more workplace accidents by forcing employers to let workers smoke pot on the job.

The analysis also contends the law would make California companies ineligible for federal contracts because employers could not guarantee a drug-free workplace.

The proposition's supporters dispute the chamber's findings. They point to the state Legislative Analyst's Office's determination that employers would "retain existing rights to address consumption of marijuana that impairs an employee's job performance."

Mainly at issue is a section of the proposition that says no one can "be denied any right or privilege" because they engaged in legal conduct permitted by the act, such as smoking pot.

The section continues: "The existing right of an employer to address consumption that actually impairs job performance by an employee shall not be affected."

The chamber claims the proposition would create a new, ill-defined standard of "actual impairment" that would prevent employers from disciplining workers simply for consuming marijuana. Instead, according to the chamber's analysis, employers would have to prove that pot impaired an employee's job performance.

"For example, if a forklift driver showed up reeking of marijuana smoke, an employer could not take disciplinary action until it could be proven that the employee's job performance was 'actually impaired' by the marijuana use (for example, after an accident occurred)," the chamber wrote.

The Proposition 19 campaign said in a statement Thursday that employers under the law would still be able to prohibit and punish employees for marijuana consumption that impairs job performance just as they would for alcohol.

Employers would still be able to ban possession or consumption of pot at work and keep rules in place that involve driving or operating dangerous machinery, the campaign said. Employers could still certify that they maintained a "drug-free" workplace by prohibiting marijuana possession or use on the job.

"Presumably the Chamber does not prohibit its employees from drinking alcohol at home as long as it doesn't affect job performance?" the campaign said.

Proposition 19 would make it legal for adults 21 and older to possess up to an ounce of pot for personal use. Individuals could grow up to 25-square-foot marijuana gardens on private property. Cities and counties would decide whether to allow sales and taxation of marijuana within their boundaries.

Recent polls have shown California voters are closely divided over the measure. <DIV id=commentform><DIV id=idc-container-parent><DIV id=idc-container class=idc>Close *Forgot password?*

Please put in your email: Send me my password! Close message


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## 420Miller (Aug 28, 2010)

Decriminalization would still put lots of people in jail. All it means is that if you get caught with it you're not going to jail. If you grow it/sell it you are. Why can't we grow our plants in peace, save millions more on a war that has clearly failed, and has destroyed millions of innocent lives. It's a civil war, that can't go on.


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## ford442 (Aug 29, 2010)

^^ 
- i would rather have a forklift driver stoned off his ass than a driver shivering and shaking wanting to puke or other conditions requiring marijuana.. the article never mentions the flip side - if they need to smoke at work it is probably because they are already impaired by the ailment.. tons of people go to work stoned on Oxycontin like drugs, but we are not making laws to protect them from themselves.. should i have to leave my anti psychotic meds at home when i go to work?


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## Dragonus (Aug 29, 2010)

Philo2 said:


> I can't see how voting for freedom can ever be considered stupid.


The fact you have to vote for freedom is a stupid concept


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## 420Miller (Aug 29, 2010)

Dragonus said:


> The fact you have to vote for freedom is a stupid concept


Agreed bro. The fact was it used to be a freedom we had. So, we have to vote now to get it back because a couple of racist money hungry people... Doesn't make sense to me.


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## Katatawnic (Aug 29, 2010)

Stupid concept it may be, but it's still a reality.


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## 420Miller (Aug 29, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> Stupid concept it may be, but it's still a reality.


Yeah cause people just bend over and take it. We think we have a right to our cannabis, and see how corrupt shit is. Most people that live their days in obeying the laws, they don't care. They just have the mentality that they don't break the law so why would it affect them. Yet more and more of our rights get taken away.


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## Katatawnic (Aug 29, 2010)

This is a right that was taken away decades ago. The bending over and taking it has gone on long enough. Fact remains the only way we'll get that right back is to play the game and vote. We can be pissed off about stupid concepts and still play the game. Nothing wrong with winning a game, even when it's a stupid one in the first place.


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## RavenMochi (Aug 30, 2010)

Freedom is an illusion, as well as having any rights in this country. We don't have any, we have privileges. This is a police state full of citizens being scamed on a regular basis.


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## 420Miller (Aug 30, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> Freedom is an illusion, as well as having any rights in this country. We don't have any, we have privileges. This is a police state full of citizens being scamed on a regular basis.


Somebody's been watching george carlin haha, love that guy.


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## Katatawnic (Aug 30, 2010)

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose. Nothing ain't worth nothing, but it's free.


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## klmmicro (Aug 31, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> Freedom is an illusion, as well as having any rights in this country. We don't have any, we have privileges. This is a police state full of citizens being scamed on a regular basis.


Then we are, in fact, slaves. Citizens have rights. Slaves are allotted privilege when they do their master's bidding. How did we get to this point? This country did not start this way. How do we get back?


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## jamNburn (Aug 31, 2010)

This argument sounds stupid. Why do we want to keep this illegal. Most sellers can turn into a legitimate business. I say this bc most smart sellers are already business men. Setting up front companies to make money clean and spendable. So don't think they aren't. Maybe the schlep you buy your grams from will disappear. But not the real guys that are real investors. They have capital. They have negotiation skills and theY have credit. They would turn legitimate overnight.


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## RavenMochi (Sep 2, 2010)

klmmicro said:


> Then we are, in fact, slaves. Citizens have rights. Slaves are allotted privilege when they do their master's bidding. How did we get to this point? This country did not start this way. How do we get back?


 I don't know that we can...  The fact is that the people of this country will never stand together to do anything about it because they've gotten used to being comfortable, and just seem to want "safety" as opposed to freedom.


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## jamNburn (Sep 2, 2010)

If you keep people scared they tend to go along with the man. Ie 9/11 , 1982, red scare, Iran. The world is a dangerous place but it seems as of our gov wants to bombard us with fear to make us docile and agreeable to thing we otherwise would not be.


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## RavenMochi (Sep 2, 2010)

Fear is there weapon, and the sad part is so many of see it, but it won't be enough to counter the massive sea of ignorance that fallows it blindly...


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## Needofweed (Sep 15, 2010)

lear the truth watch this!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/v/nJhBWaNPV3w...</param><param

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGWSdrU31B0​


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## Needofweed (Sep 15, 2010)

http://votetaxcannabis2010.blogspot....-2010-tax.html
heres more of the truth.
bottom line is im voting no and evry one i know who votes is voting no. there is more than one way to legalize bud.
and prop 19 is not the way to do it.
right now i grow bud for free if prop 19 passes ill have to pay taxes to grow even if only for my personal use.
prop 19 is no good


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## Needofweed (Sep 15, 2010)

Voters in Rancho Cordova will decide in November whether to tax residents who grow their own pot.
The city measure, put on the Nov. 2 ballot by the City Council this week, would impose taxes on all local residential cultivation if California voters approve Proposition 19 to legalize recreational use.
But the city&#8217;s proposed &#8220;Personal Cannabis Cultivation Tax&#8221; also makes no distinction between medical and recreational cultivation, Peter Hecht writes in &#8220;Weed Wars.&#8221; So the tax would kick in for anyone currently cultivating for personal medical use &#8212; whether Prop. 19 passes or not
If passed by local voters, the taxation measure in the Sacramento County city would make at-home cultivation a much more expensive endeavor.

The Rancho Cordova measure would impose a $600 annual tax per square foot of indoor cultivation of 25 square feet of [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] or less and a $900 per square foot tax if the indoor growing area is more than 25 square feet.

The city tax would cost a local indoor grower $6,000 a year on 10 square feet of pot plants and $15,000 for 25 square feet. Outdoor growers, who would be billed at a lower rate, would pay a $1,200 residential tax for 25 square feet of [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] plants.
If Proposition 19 passes, it would allow California adults over 21 to cultivate in a 25-square foot residential space. Medical growers often exceed those limits by cultivating with other pot patients

http://calpotnews.com/government/bal...ordova-ballot/ 

heres something to fear high taxes brought to you buy prop19


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## Needofweed (Sep 18, 2010)

if they want to regulate weed like tabacco and beer then why is there a limit on how much i can buy and posses(1oz).
im not restricted to 1 12 pack of beer or 1 pack of cigs.

im just saying


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## Dan Kone (Sep 18, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> heres something to fear high taxes brought to you buy prop19


trying to scare people into voting your way. Carl Rove would be so proud of you.


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## Raptured (Sep 18, 2010)

maxamus1 said:


> i don't think the government will grow good smoke. 2nd- they will take over the pot industry and grow shwag and sell it for way more then it's worth. 3rd they will not let you grow your own. then if you bitch about it they will tell you to shut up at least it is legal. so go ahead and legalize it see what happens.


After a few years of pot being legalized big time corporations will be able to sell high quality weed. Its not hard to grow marijuana. Will the best pot still come from smaller more particular grows yes. Lets say that stuff is grade A.. But you will be able to buy grade B and C stuff at the local store. And with competition everywhere the prices will remain low.. The small time personal use growers and smokers want this to be legalized anyone that is more concerned about there profits wants it to remain the same or decriminalized. And I dont blame those people that are freaking out because there main source of income is to grow and sell it. I just dont care one bit about you.. and I really really hope it gets legalized... there has been so much rhetoric and false claims about marijuana.. some people are brain washed that its a terrible illegal drug. Lets put that shit to rest starting with prop 19.


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## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 18, 2010)

your all growers right?? so y legalize it then?? just go get ur medical card cuz if it becomes legal their ganna make strict growing laws..and growing permits will cost a grip..im legal now so y should i care about ppl who are just scared to get caught..man up..its not like your ganna do years unless your growing thousands and selling to narks


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## Dan Kone (Sep 18, 2010)

Raptured said:


> After a few years of pot being legalized big time corporations will be able to sell high quality weed.


Correct. You have to think about who these big corporations are going to be. They are going to be the most successful growers. It'll be which ever growers can sell the largest quantities of A grade. The dispensary business has proven that top selling bud has little to nothing to do with who can sell the cheapest bud. It's all about who can sell the best bud for the lowest price. Quality has always been the most important factor in selling bud. I'm not sure why anyone would think that is going to change. Price is only a factor when comparing bud of the same quality.


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## Needofweed (Sep 18, 2010)

I agree that they would be able to produce high quality weed no doubt. What i dont understand is why it would be cheaper. Now before you blow your top let me explain. Weed now on average street price in my area is about 250 an oz, but you got to think that this price is not set up from the grower its from the retailer that marks up the price. I grow myself both indoor and out,I usually cant get of about 14-16 oz every 2 1/2 months indoor only.It coast me about $950 to do this so I get off paying about $63 a oz and Im a small grower, so my coast is higher? Now I now 3 other growers who grow a lot more than me and every now and then I run out between harvests so i go buy some bud of them for no more than $120 an oz.Those massive grow ops in oakland still have to pay for electricity+water+nutrients+manpower+shipping+secruity,and+taxes.So I dont know if they will be able to bring the price of production lower than $63 an oz?

Oh and one other thing,proponent of prop19 say it will genrate 1.4 billion dollors anualy for the state but that figgure is base on todays marketprice of "$300" an oz.But at the same tim Ive read that prices are going to drop down to "$30" an oz. thats a 90% drop in price so its a 90% drop in tax revevue.So thats only 140,000,000 dolloers anually.that a down fall of 1.260 billion dollors a year.So whats up with that? Makes me think that they would want to keep prices high.


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## Needofweed (Sep 18, 2010)

No country in the world has legalized marijuana to the extent of massproduction and taxation that prop 19 suggests.

california needs to take a duth approach at it.

*The regulations*

The Dutch have divided drugs into two groups, depending on their influence on human health &#8211; *soft drugs* and *hard drugs*. Hard drugs as cocaine, LSD, morphine, heroin are forbidden in the Netherlands as in any other country. 
Soft drugs as *cannabis* in all its forms ([URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL], hashish, hash oil) and hallucinogenic mushrooms (so called magic mushrooms or paddos &#8211; from Dutch: paddestoel - mushroom) are legal under condition of so called &#8220;*personal use*&#8221;. As a result smoking of cannabis even in public, is not prosecuted as well as selling it although technically illegal under still valid Opium Act (dating from 1919, cannabis added as drug in 1950), is widely *tolerated* provided that it happens in a limited, controlled way (in a coffee shop, small portions, 5 grams maximum transaction, not many portions on stock, sale only to adults, no minors on the premises, no advertisement of drugs, the local municipality did not give the order to close the coffee shop).


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## Dan Kone (Sep 19, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> I agree that they would be able to produce high quality weed no doubt. What i dont understand is why it would be cheaper.


It's largely going to depend on the amount of commercial growing allowed by counties. Most of the price of bud has to do with the risk involved with growing it. If a significant portion of the current crop of medical/illegal growers get commercial permits, but will be very cheap.

One thing no one should expect is any immediate price difference either way. It'll take time for retail prices to go either way.



> I grow myself both indoor and out,I usually cant get of about 14-16 oz every 2 1/2 months indoor only.It coast me about $950 to do this so I get off paying about $63 a oz and Im a small grower, so my coast is higher?


That seems really expensive. What kind of system? My expenses for indoor (hydro, nice nuts) are around $35 per z. 

The more you grow in a spot the lower your expenses. higher yield per watt, buying nutrients in bulk, etc. 



> Now I now 3 other growers who grow a lot more than me and every now and then I run out between harvests so i go buy some bud of them for no more than $120 an oz.Those massive grow ops in oakland still have to pay for electricity+water+nutrients+manpower+shipping+secruity,and+taxes.So I dont know if they will be able to bring the price of production lower than $63 an oz?


Yes they will. All those things become cheaper on a large scale except electricity and water. Those things become cheaper because they will be on agricultural price scaling.



> Oh and one other thing,proponent of prop19 say it will genrate 1.4 billion dollors anualy for the state but that figgure is base on todays marketprice of "$300" an oz.But at the same tim Ive read that prices are going to drop down to "$30" an oz. thats a 90% drop in price so its a 90% drop in tax revevue.So thats only 140,000,000 dolloers anually.that a down fall of 1.260 billion dollors a year.So whats up with that? Makes me think that they would want to keep prices high.


That's a fair point. I can't dispute the logic there. 

Also - I hate it when they throw out that $30 per ounce figure. That's such bullshit. No way the price goes down that much on indoor even under ideal circumstances.


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## Needofweed (Sep 19, 2010)

I grow with a 1000w light with soil and that figgur of 950 is just a rough estimate, didnt want to lowball myself on coast.

I do think that the price will get cheap somewhat due to no more coast of "shadyness" put on buy sellers.
Personally I think prop19 will pass but not buy my vote. Just cant stand corpocracy .


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## Dan Kone (Sep 19, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> I grow with a 1000w light with soil and that figgur of 950 is just a rough estimate, didnt want to lowball myself on coast.


You running your lights in the day time or at night? 

Anyways. If you're running multiple lights + co2 you're yield per watt goes up quite a bit. Can't compare the costs of a one light system to a big system. Also once you're buying all your nutrients in 2.5g's or greater those costs go down significantly.



> I do think that the price will get cheap somewhat due to no more coast of "shadyness" put on buy sellers.


Thats exactly right. If enough of the market shifts to legal growing that will cause a price drop. But the other variable is increased usage due to easy access. If more people start buying cannabis or start doing so more frequently that causes the price to go up. 

So it all depends if there is an increase of usage, the size of that increase of usage/sales, and the volume of legal growing that is permitted. It's anyone guess how that will turn out in the end. I'd bet on a significant decrease in the end due to the removal of risk from the growing process.

My best guess on how this will go:

In the beginning there will be a temporary increase in price due to higher demand. People will go into dispensaries just because they can and smoke a little just because of the novelty of it being legal. Within 6 months the novelty will have worn off and prices will go back to the way they were. 

Long term: more and more legal growing will be permitted over time which will result in a significant price drop. I'd guess high quality indoor ends up at ~$150 an ounce retail. this will take a minimum of a year, more likely 3-5 years.

I also think this will completely change how medical collectives work. I think every store front dispensary will switch to catering towards recreational use. I think collectives will be smaller and their products will be much cheaper than dispensaries. I think medical collectives will just be medical grower direct to patient sales with no middle men, no dispensary overhead. Essentially, I think medical patients will end up getting their meds near wholesale prices with the retailer cut out of the process.


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## 1gamma45 (Sep 19, 2010)

Ummmm let see yes I can grow better myself.

Ummmm they say that 100% of all statistcs are made up.

Sniff sniff I smell the stink of a troll.

Back to bridge troll. 


Nothing to se here please dont feed the trolls.


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## tip top toker (Sep 19, 2010)

Price drops would require nothing more than for growers and dealers to stop being greedy c**** like they are at present.


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## 420God (Sep 19, 2010)

Nothing is keeping anyone from investing in the larger corporations that are going to produce MJ on a large scale. There is the thing called the stock market, that's how most responsible people make money. Not sure why anyone would want to keep big business down if they invested there money right. Wish I would have invested in Walmart when everyone was saying no to that.


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## Sure Shot (Sep 19, 2010)

It appears that there is a growing contingent of marijuana users and people associated with the industry who are fighting against efforts to make it legal for all adults. Marijuana users are an extremely diverse group. Whether it be medical or recreational use, they can be found in almost every demographic imaginable in America. As such, there are a wide variety of opinions on how marijuana should be treated by society at large, as well as how to achieve such goals. This shouldnt be surprising, and there is always room for debate on what the best models and methods for reform should be. Recently, however, a disturbing trend has emerged.
It appears that there is a growing contingent of marijuana users and people associated with the industry, both legal and illicit, who are actively fighting against efforts to make marijuana legal for all adults. There are several arguments being thrown around to defend the status quo of marijuana prohibition. Some of those arguments are well intentioned but shortsighted. Some are downright malicious. The one commonality they have is their divisive effect on the movement at a time when unity is crucial to finally end the governments war on marijuana users.
A common complaint is that, in a regulated marijuana market, big corporations will push out small businesses. This is an understandable fear, especially to someone who has spent his or her life, and risked imprisonment and persecution, trying to run a marijuana-related business. These people surely do not want to see a culture and industry that they love taken over by corporate interests and diluted. But corporations already control marijuana.
They are the cartels that heavily influence the market and bring death to our borders and our inner cities. They are the prison-builders that lobby for harsher sentencing so they can keep the cells full and the cash flowing. They are the pharmaceutical companies that stonewall cannabinoid research so they can keep pushing expensive pills.
Of course some big businesses are going to see opportunity in a newly legal and regulated marijuana market and will try to take advantage of it. And surely some of their practices will be detestable. Marijuana consumers have a right to choose, though. Big businesses cannot ruin marijuana any more than Coors has ruined beer. As with alcohol, with its thriving microbrew industry, there will inevitably be a large market for higher-quality, locally grown marijuana.
Another popular attack against potential reforms is that they do not go far enough. There are many people who feel very strongly about securing certain protections, whether they be the right to grow at home, amnesty for marijuana prisoners, personal possession limits, and so on. The most vocal among them feel so strongly that they would rather see a decent bill fail than pass without their inclusion.
While we can sit around dreaming about what the country would be like with perfect marijuana laws, the political reality is that we cannot get anywhere near there without taking incremental steps. We are fighting against more than seventy years of lies and propaganda, as well as entrenched corporate and government interests. By building on small victories, we can more easily pass improved laws and overturn bad portions of otherwise good laws. We cannot build on zero victories. While we sit around arguing about minor concessions and principles, people are going to jail or dying. We cannot afford to wait for the rest of the country to come around to the way of thinking of the more radical among us, even if we might agree with them.
The worst obstructionist arguments come from people who are doing just fine under prohibition. They come from the growers and dealers, who stand to lose a little bit of the tremendous amount of money they make in the illegal market. They come from the guys that think marijuana is only cool if it is unregulated, and dont want to lose their status. They come from the young adults who simply do not care if it is legal or not, because they are going to do it anyway.
Never mind that their lifestyles come at the expense of others freedom! In all seriousness, if you want to be a cool, wealthy outlaw, here is some advice: develop a personality, and buy a motorcycle. The rest of us are sick of living our lives on the lam for you. If you cannot support marijuana reform because of such selfish reasoning, please remove yourself from the debate.
The time has never been better for making real progress in marijuana reform. As we propose new changes and laws, everyone should get a chance to voice their opinions or concerns. When we have a chance to pass improved marijuana laws, however, we need to present a united front. As long as someone can be arrested for marijuana in the United States, we need to support each other  even if we, as individuals, do not get exactly what we want. For registered voters in California, this means coming out to the polls on November 2 to vote yes on Proposition 19.
*Source:* AlterNet (US Web)


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## veggiegardener (Sep 19, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> It appears that there is a growing contingent of marijuana users and people associated with the industry who are fighting against efforts to make it legal for all adults. Marijuana users are an extremely diverse group. Whether it be medical or recreational use, they can be found in almost every demographic imaginable in America. As such, there are a wide variety of opinions on how marijuana should be treated by society at large, as well as how to achieve such goals. This shouldn&#8217;t be surprising, and there is always room for debate on what the best models and methods for reform should be. Recently, however, a disturbing trend has emerged.
> It appears that there is a growing contingent of marijuana users and people associated with the industry, both legal and illicit, who are actively fighting against efforts to make marijuana legal for all adults. There are several arguments being thrown around to defend the status quo of marijuana prohibition. Some of those arguments are well intentioned but shortsighted. Some are downright malicious. The one commonality they have is their divisive effect on the movement at a time when unity is crucial to finally end the government&#8217;s war on marijuana users.
> A common complaint is that, in a regulated marijuana market, big corporations will push out small businesses. This is an understandable fear, especially to someone who has spent his or her life, and risked imprisonment and persecution, trying to run a marijuana-related business. These people surely do not want to see a culture and industry that they love taken over by corporate interests and diluted. But corporations already control marijuana.
> They are the cartels that heavily influence the market and bring death to our borders and our inner cities. They are the prison-builders that lobby for harsher sentencing so they can keep the cells full and the cash flowing. They are the pharmaceutical companies that stonewall cannabinoid research so they can keep pushing expensive pills.
> ...


This is still bullshit, regardless of how many places you put it.


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## Raptured (Sep 19, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> I agree that they would be able to produce high quality weed no doubt. What i dont understand is why it would be cheaper. Now before you blow your top let me explain. Weed now on average street price in my area is about 250 an oz, but you got to think that this price is not set up from the grower its from the retailer that marks up the price. I grow myself both indoor and out,I usually cant get of about 14-16 oz every 2 1/2 months indoor only.It coast me about $950 to do this so I get off paying about $63 a oz and Im a small grower, so my coast is higher? Now I now 3 other growers who grow a lot more than me and every now and then I run out between harvests so i go buy some bud of them for no more than $120 an oz.Those massive grow ops in oakland still have to pay for electricity+water+nutrients+manpower+shipping+secruity,and+taxes.So I dont know if they will be able to bring the price of production lower than $63 an oz?
> 
> Oh and one other thing,proponent of prop19 say it will genrate 1.4 billion dollors anualy for the state but that figgure is base on todays marketprice of "$300" an oz.But at the same tim Ive read that prices are going to drop down to "$30" an oz. thats a 90% drop in price so its a 90% drop in tax revevue.So thats only 140,000,000 dolloers anually.that a down fall of 1.260 billion dollors a year.So whats up with that? Makes me think that they would want to keep prices high.



If your a big time green house, with thousands upon thousands of acres of land and you want to grow marijuana.. which would all be set up with automated watering systems, with a few mexicans looking over the plants.. and have no restrictions to worry about as far as legal issues... and can grow to the utmost potential that every individual plant has to offer... dude.. there is gonna be so much weed in the market it will flood. Flooding on an epic proportion.. There will be a surplus of this crop and this will most definitely bring the prices way down.. Using the sun as the main light resource you could have vast amounts of marijuana for cheap money. Now if your using indoor lighting that all changes but damn... Its not a hard plant to grow and couple that with an experianced grow operation.. thats what I call easy money. Except now alot of different buisnesses small and large alike will be doing the same thing.. so competition will also bring down the prices .. I mean this is basic basic logical thinking here. I am not a fucking brain surgeon this is just common sense. The weed will be good and the prices fair.


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## Sure Shot (Sep 19, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> This is still bullshit, regardless of how many places you put it.


 It's still true, no matter how much you deny it.


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## Needofweed (Sep 20, 2010)

Raptured said:


> , with a few mexicans looking over the plants.. and have no restrictions to worry about as far as legal issues... .


yeah your a fucking racist bigot.

Oh yeah thousands upon thousand of acres,OK
Not to mention california alone consumes an estimated 13,000,000(thirteen million)grams a day, A DAY!
Plus these green house you speek of that will cover "thousands upon thousands of acres" will be first built in oakland wich has a higher coast of living than most of the rest of cali and it coast more to do business there comared to lets say Fresno so those Mexicans you refered too will probably be making more money than you.


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## Needofweed (Sep 20, 2010)

Raptured said:


> there is gonna be so much weed in the market it will flood. Flooding on an epic proportion.. There will be a surplus of this crop and this will most definitely bring the prices way down.. Using the sun as the main light resource you could have vast amounts of marijuana for cheap money. Now if your using indoor lighting that all changes but damn....


 
Plus the prop is called CONTROL,REGULAT, and tax act of 2010, NOT cover the whole entire state with plant and grow 400trillion tones and tax act of 2010.

And i was factering in indoor lighting.


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## Dan Kone (Sep 20, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> Plus the prop is called CONTROL,REGULAT, and tax act of 2010, NOT cover the whole entire state with plant and grow 400trillion tones and tax act of 2010.
> 
> And i was factering in indoor lighting.


lol @ thinking the name matters. The PG&E/southern edison ballot measure that was designed to give them a permanent monopoly in California was called "Taxpayers Right to Vote Act ". Was it called the "give PG&E permanent control over the energy grid act"? No, it wasn't. Names of ballot measure are nothing more than the label that tests the best in focus groups. If they called it the "pot legalization act", it would lose badly. The only reason it is supported by voter is because it's marketed as taxing cannabis.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 20, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> lol @ thinking the name matters. The PG&E/southern edison ballot measure that was designed to give them a permanent monopoly in California was called "Taxpayers Right to Vote Act ". Was it called the "give PG&E permanent control over the energy grid act"? No, it wasn't. Names of ballot measure are nothing more than the label that tests the best in focus groups. If they called it the "pot legalization act", it would lose badly. The only reason it is supported by voter is because it's marketed as taxing cannabis.


so it's a 'trick" to get votes?

and i'm supposed to support this behavior?


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## Needofweed (Sep 20, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> lol @ thinking the name matters. The PG&E/southern edison ballot measure that was designed to give them a permanent monopoly in California was called "Taxpayers Right to Vote Act ". Was it called the "give PG&E permanent control over the energy grid act"? No, it wasn't. Names of ballot measure are nothing more than the label that tests the best in focus groups. If they called it the "pot legalization act", it would lose badly. The only reason it is supported by voter is because it's marketed as taxing cannabis.


So your admitting that that they are lying to the public?
Yeah making up ballot names is just another why to trick the public.


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## Dan Kone (Sep 20, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> so it's a 'trick" to get votes?
> 
> and i'm supposed to support this behavior?


Then I guess you can vote no one pretty much every ballot measure in every election, because they all have deceptive titles.

Yes, you are supposed to support this behavior. Prohibition was built on a lie, if a lie is needed to end it, I'm fine with that. Prop 19 gives us everything we need to end prohibition through local activism. If the voters need to be tricked into ending prohibition, I'm ok with that. The reasons they oppose legalization are generally lies. 

State and national politics is a dirty game. If you don't play it dirty, you lose. With out marketing legalization as "taxing cannabis", we have no legalization. It's not supported even in California. Marketing this prop as taxing instead of legalizing is a small price to pay. So yeah, you should support this behavior.


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## Dan Kone (Sep 20, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> So your admitting that that they are lying to the public?


I don't know if it's outright lying, but if you want to call it that, fine. There is definitely a level of deception involved. And you know what? It's worth it. Because that's the way we are going to get legalization. It's all Rovian politics. When you call it bud, weed, or pot, you get a negative reaction from the public filled with preconceived notions of lies they learned in their highschool DARE program. When you call it legalization, you get a majority against it.

When you call it "pot legalization" I guarantee the polling will be under 40% supporting it. When you call it "taxing cannabis" you get a majority supporting it. 

That's how the game is played. Polling, focus groups, marketing... You may not like it, but they are a necessary weapon in the fight against legalization. 

The people who have supported prohibition have been filling everyone's heads with lies for 70 years. You have to change the language used in order to fight that. People have a negative psychological association with marijuana and marijuana legalization. When you change the language you can actually have a conversation with someone about it and they'll listen. Many Californians have their mind made up about marijuana legalization, but they are willing to listen to a conversation about taxing cannabis to raise money for a broke state. Sure, both phrases talk about the exact same thing, and yes that is deceptive. But like I said, this is how the game is played. This is the big leagues.


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## Dan Kone (Sep 20, 2010)

I hope that all made sense. I'm really high right now.


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## Needofweed (Sep 21, 2010)

watch this video
Its kinda hard to understand the narator but you can read along

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_2_Rsy0mdE


I dont know if theres anyone out there that is a grower who plans on getting a license to sell.NORML has proposed that mj be sold with a label that tell the consumer the exact level of THC.So growers that do have there license to sell will not be able to sell what they grow without getting the strain/strains tested at a laboratory for THC level.How much does that coast? It would cheaper to buy it of big marijuana corporations that will have the money to test there strains.Just another way to eliminate all compotition.(im not saying this is fact just what I read and heard.)


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## Dan Kone (Sep 21, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> I dont know if theres anyone out there that is a grower who plans on getting a license to sell.NORML has proposed that mj be sold with a label that tell the consumer the exact level of THC.So growers that do have there license to sell will not be able to sell what they grow without getting the strain/strains tested at a laboratory for THC level.How much does that coast?


It costs $100 dollars per test. The test gives thc/cbd/cbn results as well as mold/pathogen results. If you don't want to pay for testing each time you can buy the machine for ~$15,000. 

I think it's an extremely good idea. Don't bud smokers deserve to know exactly what they are getting?

And just fyi - cost = price. coast = where the land meets the ocean. Sorry for the spelling correction. I'm a terrible speller myself. Just thought you'd like to know. 



> It would cheaper to buy it of big marijuana corporations that will have the money to test there strains.Just another way to eliminate all compotition.(im not saying this is fact just what I read and heard.)


It's not that expensive. No reason commercial growers or dispensary owners can't just buy the machine and then test the product. 

It provides a great service. Ironic that Mr Anti-capitalist is once again fighting for the rights of a group of people to profit over protection of the average smoker. Maybe you should get a job with BP. They'd really love your attitude.


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## Needofweed (Sep 21, 2010)

what is the machine called?


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## Dan Kone (Sep 21, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> what is the machine called?


Here's the company that lab tests harborside's buds when I was vending there. It was pretty sweet actually. When they buy a pack off you they email your test results a week later. You get to see the exact quality of your strains. The results were pretty surprising at first. After getting used to it you get to the point where you can tell approximate thc/cbd by looking it your buds under a magnified light. 

As a vendor, I loved it. Not only did I know exactly how good my bud was, but I knew for a fact that I was never selling any bud with any microscopic pathogens that could potentially make someone with a weak immune system sick. Every club and large commercial grower should this. At least the mod/pathogen testing.



> http://steephilllab.com/


If you go to the "about" tab you can see the equipment. The gas chromatograph is the machine that actually does the thc testing.


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## Needofweed (Sep 21, 2010)

that was very cool I think Im going to try it just for fun


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## veggiegardener (Sep 22, 2010)

Vote no on 19.


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## Needofweed (Sep 22, 2010)

Im voting NO


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## Sure Shot (Sep 22, 2010)

I can't vote.
Vote yes on Prop 19! Or, you too could lose *your* voting rights!


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## budsmoker83 (Sep 22, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> I hope that all made sense. I'm really high right now.


that made perfect sense and they would be dumb not to legalize, and for the rest of the states to. They talk so much about drugs crossing our borders and drug lords in south america making so much drug money, marijauna is a high profit for alot of them
. If you take that from them then both the state & goverment will gain from taxing CANNIBUS and if only cali. legalizes it then be ready for more tourist cause my peeps ,I and alot of other potheads will be visiting a cali spot near U....


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## Needofweed (Sep 22, 2010)

most of the mj smoked in california is grown in california,Ill guess 40% of all the weed smoked in USA is grown in california.Plus cartel weed is alway midgrade and sold for 400-800 dollors a pound depending on quality.I think they will always have a market.And one other thing,cartels have millions maybe even billions of dollors so whats to stop them from going in to the mj business legitimate.


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## Sure Shot (Sep 22, 2010)

Some Cali growers move 100's of lbs.
Cartels move 1000's of pounds!


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## Needofweed (Sep 22, 2010)

how many differnt cartels is there compared to how many differnt growers in cali?


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## Sure Shot (Sep 22, 2010)

How fast do 1000's add up compared to 100's?


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## Needofweed (Sep 22, 2010)

you mean 100s and up to 1000s?


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## Sure Shot (Sep 22, 2010)

I was trying to keep it simple, but yes.
I actually meant,
10's-100's vs 100's-1000's.
Truth is, Cartels are way more on the high end of their scale then Cali growers are.
It's still relatively the same math, just on simpler terms.
Like, take into the fact that we're not including our neighbor Colorado. Or, Canada for that matter.


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## Grnthum (Sep 24, 2010)

I grow legally for my own personal use and am voting yes on prop. 19. The large growers and dealers want to keep it illegal to protect their obscene profit margins. That's the bottom line, it's about greed. They don't want you to be able to supply yourself or buy legally somewhere else.


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## Needofweed (Sep 24, 2010)

what ever Like I said befor if voting no make some one a drug dealer then voting yes make some one a drug addict.

Oh by the way I also grow my own and I do not sell and I am voting NO


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## Needofweed (Sep 24, 2010)

who ever said that prop 19 is our only chance and only way to legalization of cannabis is a liar.


PROPOSED WORDING AS OF 05/13/2010:
California Cannabis Hemp & Health Initiative 2012​ 
California Cannabis Hemp & Health Initiative 2012​
AN ACT TO AMEND THE HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE OF CALIFORNIA:


I. Add Section 11362.6 to the Health and Safety Code of California, any laws or policies to the contrary notwithstanding:​

1. No person, individual, or corporate entity shall be arrested or prosecuted, be denied any right or privilege, nor be subject to any criminal or civil penalties for the possession, cultivation, transportation, distribution, or consumption of cannabis hemp marijuana, including:​

(a) Cannabis hemp industrial products.
(b) Cannabis hemp medicinal preparations.
(c) Cannabis hemp nutritional products.
(c) Cannabis hemp religious and spiritual products.
(d) Cannabis hemp recreational and euphoric use and products.​2. Definition of terms:


(a) The terms "cannabis hemp" and &#8220;cannabis hemp marijuana&#8221; mean the natural, non-genetically modified plant hemp, cannabis, marihuana, marijuana, cannabis sativa L, cannabis Americana, cannabis chinensis, cannabis indica, cannabis ruderalis, cannabis sativa, or any variety of cannabis, including any derivative, concentrate, extract, flower, leaf, particle, preparation, resin, root, salt, seed, stalk, stem, or any product thereof.
(b) The term "cannabis hemp industrial products" means all products made from cannabis hemp that are not designed or intended for human consumption, including, but not limited to: clothing, building materials, paper, fiber, fuel, lubricants, plastics, paint, seed for cultivation, animal feed, veterinary medicine, oil, or any other product that is not designed for internal human consumption; as well as cannabis hemp plants used for crop rotation, erosion control, pest control, weed control, or any other horticultural or environmental purposes, for example, the reversal of the Greenhouse Effect and toxic soil reclamation. 
(c) The term "cannabis hemp medicinal preparations" means all products made from cannabis hemp that are designed, intended, or used for human consumption for the treatment of any human disease or condition, for pain relief, or for any healing purpose, including but not limited to the treatment or relief of: Alzheimer's and pre-Alzheimer's disease, stroke, arthritis, asthma, cramps, epilepsy, glaucoma, migraine, multiple sclerosis, nausea, premenstrual syndrome, side effects of cancer chemotherapy, fibromyalgia, sickle cell anemia, spasticity, spinal injury, stress, easement of post-traumatic stress disorder, Tourette syndrome, attention deficit disorder, immunodeficiency, wasting syndrome from AIDS or anorexia; use as an antibiotic, antibacterial, anti-viral, or anti-emetic; as a healing agent, or as an adjunct to any medical or herbal treatment. Mental conditions not limited to bipolar, depression, attention deficit disorder, or attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, shall be conditions considered for medical use.
(d) The term "cannabis hemp nutritional products" means cannabis hemp for consumption by humans and animals as food, including but not limited to: seed, seed protein, seed oil, essential fatty acids, seed cake, dietary fiber, or any preparation or extract thereof. 
(e) The term "cannabis hemp euphoric products" means cannabis hemp intended for personal recreational or religious use, other than cannabis hemp industrial products, cannabis hemp medicinal preparations, or cannabis hemp nutritional products. 
(f) The term "personal use" means the internal consumption of cannabis hemp by people 21 years of age or older for any relaxational, meditative, religious, spiritual, recreational, or other purpose other than sale.
(g) The term "commercial production" means the production of cannabis hemp products for sale or profit under the conditions of these provisions. ​3. Industrial cannabis hemp farmers, manufacturers, processors, and distributors shall not be subject to any special zoning requirement, licensing fee, or tax that is excessive, discriminatory, or prohibitive.
4. Cannabis hemp medicinal preparations are hereby restored to the list of available medicines in California. Licensed physicians shall not be penalized for, nor restricted from, prescribing or recommending cannabis hemp for medical purposes to any patient, regardless of age. No tax shall be applied to prescribed cannabis hemp medicinal preparations. Medical research shall be encouraged. No recommending physician shall be subject to any professional licensing review or hearing as a result of recommending or approving medical use of cannabis hemp marijuana.​
5. Personal use of cannabis hemp euphoric products.


(a) No permit, license, or tax shall be required for the non-commercial cultivation, transportation, distribution, or consumption of cannabis hemp.
(b) Testing for inactive and/or inert residual cannabis metabolites shall not be required for employment or insurance, nor be considered in determining employment, other impairment, or intoxication.
(c) When a person falls within the conditions of these exceptions, the offense laws do not apply and only the exception laws apply. ​6. Use of cannabis hemp products for religious or spiritual purposes shall be considered an inalienable right; and shall be protected by the full force of the State and Federal Constitutions.
7. Commerce in cannabis hemp euphoric products shall be limited to adults, 21 years of age and older, and shall be regulated in a manner analogous to California's wine industry model. For the purpose of distinguishing personal from commercial production, 99 flowering female plants and 12 pounds of dried, cured cannabis hemp flowers, bud, not leaf, produced per adult, 21 years of age and older, per year shall be considered as being for personal use.
8. The manufacture, marketing, distribution, or sales between adults of equipment or accessories designed to assist in the planting, cultivation, harvesting, curing, processing, packaging, storage, analysis, consumption, or transportation of cannabis hemp plants, industrial cannabis hemp products, cannabis hemp medicinal preparations, cannabis hemp nutritional products, cannabis hemp euphoric products, or any cannabis hemp product shall not be prohibited.
9. No California law enforcement personnel or funds shall be used to assist or aid and abet in the enforcement of Federal cannabis hemp marijuana laws involving acts which are hereby no longer illegal in the State of California.
10. Any person who threatens the enjoyment of these provisions is guilty of a misdemeanor. The maximum penalties and fines of a misdemeanor may be imposed.​II. Repeal, delete, and expunge any and all existing statutory laws that conflict with the provisions of this initiative.


1. Enactment of this initiative shall include: amnesty, immediate release from prison, jail, parole, and probation, and clearing, expungement, and deletion of all criminal records for all persons currently charged with, or convicted of any non-violent cannabis hemp marijuana offenses included in this initiative which are hereby no longer illegal in the State of California. People who fall within this category that triggered an original sentence are included within this provision.
2. Within 60 days of the passage of this Act, the Attorney General shall develop and distribute a one-page application, providing for the destruction of all cannabis hemp marijuana criminal records in California for any such offense covered by this Act. Such forms shall be distributed to district and city attorneys and made available at all police departments in the State to persons hereby affected. Upon filing such form with any Superior Court and a payment of a fee of $10.00, the Court shall liberally construe these provisions to benefit the defendant in furtherance of the amnesty and dismissal provision of this section. Upon the Court's ruling under this provision the arrest record shall be set aside and be destroyed. Such persons may then truthfully state that they have never been arrested or convicted of any cannabis hemp marijuana related offense which is hereby no longer illegal in the State of California. This shall be deemed to be a finding of factual innocence under California Penal Code Section 851.8 et seq.​III. The legislature is authorized upon thorough investigation, to enact legislation using reasonable standards to:


1. License concessionary establishments to distribute cannabis hemp euphoric products in a manner analogous to California's wine industry model. Sufficient community outlets shall be licensed to provide reasonable commercial access to persons of legal age, so as to discourage and prevent the misuse of, and illicit traffic in, such products. Any license or permit fee required by the State for commercial production, distribution or use shall not exceed $1,000.00.
2. Place an excise tax on commercial sale of cannabis hemp euphoric products, analogous to California's wine industry model, so long as no excise tax or combination of excise taxes shall exceed $10.00 per ounce. 
3. Determine an acceptable and uniform standard of impairment based on performance testing, to restrict persons impaired by cannabis hemp euphoric products from operating a motor vehicle or heavy machinery, or otherwise engaging in conduct that may affect public safety. 
4. Regulate the personal use of cannabis hemp euphoric products in enclosed and/or restricted public places.​IV. Pursuant to the Ninth and Tenth Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, the people of California hereby repudiate and challenge Federal cannabis hemp marijuana prohibitions that conflict with this act.
V. Severability: If any provision of this Act, or the application of any such provision to any person or circumstance, shall be held invalid by any court, the remainder of this Act, to the extent it can be given effect, or the application of such provisions to persons or circumstances other than those as to which it is held invalid, shall not be affected thereby, and to this end the provisions of this Act are severable. 
VI. Construction: If any rival or conflicting initiative regulating any matter addressed by this act receives the higher affirmative vote, then all non-conflicting parts shall become operative.
VII. Purpose of Act: This Act is an exercise of the police powers of the State for the protection of the safety, welfare, health, and peace of the people and the environment of the State, to protect the industrial and medicinal uses of cannabis hemp, to eliminate the unlicensed and unlawful cultivation, selling, and dispensing of cannabis hemp; and to encourage temperance in the consumption of cannabis hemp euphoric products. It is hereby declared that the subject matter of this Act involves, in the highest degree, the ecological, economic, social, and moral well-being and safety of the State and of all its people. All provisions of this Act shall be liberally construed for the accomplishment of these purposes: to respect human rights, to promote tolerance, and to end cannabis hemp prohibition.
Eddy Lepp​ 
George Clayton Johnson​ 
Michael S. Jolson

http://youthfederation.com/cchhi2012.html​


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## Matt Rize (Sep 27, 2010)

http://www.steephilllab.com/industry...t-oct-2010.pdf

Here goes Steep Hill Lab's report, They cover some of the possible affects of Prop on 19 on medical Cannabis.

"1- Shrinking of doctors&#8217; sector. It seems feasible that if patients can get their cannabis without a doctor&#8217;s recommendation, they will do so.

2- Reduction of cannabis price overall. While this seems inevitable, Prop. 19 passing or not, the passing could speed up the process. Low income patients who cannot afford recommendations would be able to utilize local dispensaries. The increased demand would be met with increased supply and increased competition from dispensaries. This is a recipe for lower prices on the retail side.

3- Increased effort from outdoor growers to market their products. Outdoor cannabis is far cheaper to produce than indoor. With more price declines, outdoor cannabis becomes more competitive. Technological advances in outdoor growing are already closing the gap between indoor and high- end outdoor quality cannabis. With marketing, consumers may begin to migrate back to outdoor cannabis. 

4- Expansion of capital investment from other industries. Investors are waiting for legalization. Hundreds of millions of dollars will &#64258;ow into the industry over the next &#64257;ve years." Big up the researchers! Some really interesting ideas here, like the outdoor gaining in popularity. GO STEEP HILL LAB!


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> http://www.steephilllab.com/industry...t-oct-2010.pdf
> 
> Here goes Steep Hill Lab's report, They cover some of the possible affects of Prop on 19 on medical Cannabis.
> 
> ...



1. No more "rollerskate" doctors hanging out at the beach filling prescriptions? Oh well ...

2. Woohoo! Cheaper weed! Outstanding news for medical patients who pay ridiculous prices for medicine.

3. Farmers are gonna be happy. (In more ways than one ... if you know what I mean)

4. Finally! A new industry to help lift the ailing American economy ... Medical marijuana for the economy? Methinks so ....


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## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> 1. No more "rollerskate" doctors hanging out at the beach filling prescriptions? Oh well ...
> 
> 2. Woohoo! Cheaper weed! Outstanding news for medical patients who pay ridiculous prices for medicine.
> 
> ...


There's nothing to support your claims except your claims. Post proof or shut up.


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> There's nothing to support your claims except your claims. Post proof or shut up.



I have just as much right to give my thoughts as you have the right to completely ignore what is written in Prop 19 ... telling people it doesn't say this or it doesn't say that when it CLEARLY does.

Where's all this proof to back up your claims? Get a grip already internet tough guy ...


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## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> I have just as much right to give my thoughts as you have the right to completely ignore what is written in Prop 19 ... telling people it doesn't say this or it doesn't say that when it CLEARLY does.
> 
> Where's all this proof to back up your claims? Get a grip already internet tough guy ...


Thanks for the laugh!


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## Sure Shot (Sep 30, 2010)

*Proposition 19 Has Too Many Flaws

**WHY PRO-POT ACTIVISTS OPPOSE THE 2010 TAX CANNABIS INITIATIVE: 18 REASONS TO VOTE KNOW*


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## yslkane (Oct 1, 2010)

if it was legal we would be able to smoke top weed every day so legal . com glasgow boi!


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## veggiegardener (Oct 1, 2010)

yslkane said:


> if it was legal we would be able to smoke top weed every day so legal . com glasgow boi!


Education is your friend. 

Attend class frequently!


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## MJSkywalker (Oct 2, 2010)

It's an interesting argument but I really don't see legalisation leading to economic problems, if anything the opposite is true. I can see the logic in proposing decriminalisation as a first step, then if it's a success go for full legalisation.


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