# True Aero Growing "TAG"



## mdgcmd (May 3, 2008)

I would first like to say that it is not me that invented or coined the phrase or technique, nor will I trying to pretend I know what I am doing lol. I do not know the origins other technique and will not try and take any credit for what I have learned, and what information I present. For more detailed read on this technique please refer to THIS thread.

Now on to where I am at right now. My camera arrived late so unfortunately I have no documentation of the build process. On the other hand I am sure anyone can find a DIY grow box tutorial somewhere online . The interesting stuff is what I am in the process of doing and learning right now. So if you buckle up and sit back we can all learn together. 

The acronym "TAG" is nothing special... it stands for "TRUE AERO GROWING". This method of aeroponics is no different than any other "true" aeroponic sytems. The difference in this technique though is that we will want to optimize and try and perfect the aeroponic root zone environment or TAE ("TRUE AERO ENVIRONMENT"). There are many off the shelf aero systems, but perform in more of an NFT type of way. By this I mean that these system actually coat the root zone with a film of water. TAG on the other hand does coat but instead "mists" the root zone. TAG does not saturate the root zone like those off the self systems. Now that you have a familiarity with TAG I will move onto my setup. If you are interested in trying out TAG for yourself I am sorry but as of right now I cannot help you. We much do out research together and help out one another as we learn. Please check out the link and that site as well... lots of info to be learned in that thread. 





Ok so here is my system as it stand right now in my garage. As you can see there is still lots of work to be done here. I am still waiting on my CMH HID light, and ballast to arrive, and I also just bought the CAP timer that I will need for my irrigation cycles. As for right now I have my plumbing, and drainage in place work as intended.





Here you can see the pump and the plumbing lines from the res to the root chamber. 





Here is a picture of the misting system within the root chamber. Believe it or not these misters are on full blast, so you see what I mean by a very fine "mist", my camera is 8.3Mp and the mist is still to fine for it to see. You can also see how I configured the drainage back to the res. I just simply cut a hole in the bottom of the root chamber, and the lid of the res. I placed a piece of 2 1/4" PVC pipe in the hole and siliconed it very cleanly. I also siliconed the other side of the tote (that sits on the lid), and both sides of the lid.





You can see the part of the PVC drain as it comes into the res. lid. I was actually very happy with how well it worked out in terms of neatness, clean looking and functionality.

The grow box is powered by it's own power outlet that simple plugs into the wall. From withing the box I will be placing two power strips that will have all the timers and whatnot. I still need to do some drilling for the wires to run, and I was also thinking about running the wires through PVC pipe to make it look all neat and clean. In this picture you can see the outlet box and the pump power supply unit.





My exhaust hole is right above the PSU and pulls from a heater grate that I installed at the bottom left side of the box. I used a heater grate so that I can shut the grate closed when the lights go out. You can also see that I made it so that the floor can roll in and out. This make res changing a lot easier on the back, that is if I ever come into the situation that I need to lift it out.






I wanted to make sure that I could remove my light and the shelf with ease as well. I did this so that maintianence would be easier if another situation should ever arrive. I installed a dimmer switch on the Votex fan but now I get a humming noise if it not on full blast. I am hoping that I can figure out how to get around having to hear that buzzing sound with out having to go and buy the votex fan controller.






Well I believe that is all I have for you all right now but I will be around often. If you have any questions regarding my setup by all mean feel free to ask. If you have any suggestion or tips that you think will come in handy please post your mind. If you have any TAG questions I will try to help but like I said before we are learning this together. There is a ton of TAG info on the forum that I linked you too earlier, do not just read that one link and expect everything to be fine. Research with me fellas and share everything that you learn with the rest of us. Enjoy the show fellas.


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## mdgcmd (May 3, 2008)

Reserved!!


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## mdgcmd (May 3, 2008)

Don't all say hi at once now lol.


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## JordanTheGreat (May 3, 2008)

man, that shit looks purrdy official... i just built my first lil DIY chamber, definately not as well thought out.i think i might have to fuck wid a true aero gro next time, supposed to be a million times more productive right?


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## mdgcmd (May 3, 2008)

Well from what I have heard and read 45% faster growth SHOULD be expected. I was playing around with a hybrid aero/NFT system that I built some time ago but never got the grow up and running because I had to move at short notice. The growth was about 25% faster tha the DWC system I was using in the past. That being said I am eager to see what this technique can really do. 

I am not looing forward to seeding the plants because I already know they will veg out of controll and I fear that I will need to do an excessive amount of pruning to keep it all under control. On the other hand this is planned to be a 2-3 plant SCROG grow. Hopefully the screen will keep the plant growth somewhat manageable as I wait for the veggers to mature (about 8 weeks).

I was curious to know how many ppl here use CMH bulbs as well.


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## bigwheel (May 3, 2008)

Well I aint sure whut is a CMF bulb so dont know if I use em or not. I am still trying to figger out how your contraption works. Are you cutting pot holes on the lid of the tote? Where do the lights go? Whuts up with the mirrors? Whut is all them L shaped PVC pipes at mid level? Whut function do the blue plastic sheet serve? Enquiring minds need to know this kinda stuff. Thanks. 

Big Wheel


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## mdgcmd (May 3, 2008)

Well BW I would be glad to answer all your questions while I smoke this bowl. A CFM bulb is a "Ceramic Metal Halide", it is designed to work with a HPS ballast. The bulb is expensive but it well worth the money...why you ask well quite simply just look here. These bulbs have a VERY MUCH better color spectrum than literally any other bulb. Also these bulbs are significantly cooler than MH/HPS while running. They also are about 25% more efficient and the mean lumens are higher. They are literally better in everyway compared to traditional MH/HPS. Please note that they are not compatable with digital ballasts.

As far as this "contraption" goes it is very simple. I hooked a pump up tp a res and connected it to some misters. It really is that simple, well you need a 200mesh filter aswell. It goes like this... on the floor is a 6inch high, 27inch wide, and an 18inch deep storage tote w/lid. This tote hold about 8 gallons and is positioned under the tote that the plants will be growing in. So now we know that the thing with the "blue plastic sheet" is the tote lid upside down. Yes it serves a purpose and that is to keep the water inside the top tote. It also doubles as a way to keep the plants above the water and the roots in the watering area. Holes are still needed to be cut, but that can wait till the kinks are worked out considering testing for leaks with water misting all over the pace could prove challenging. The lights hang from the top shelf that the PSU is sitting on. I have two screww hooks installed under the plywood shelf and I am just waiting on the light to get here. I ordered a 400w CMH and ballast for 121.00 shipped, and I already have a hood to go with it.

I am not exactly sure if you are referring to the manifold when you say L shaped PVC but I will assume so anyway. Inside the top tote is what is known to me as a manifold. This manifold is made from PVC, PVC elbows, and obviously the misters. The roots will essentially rest in the center of the misters and grow like pom poms not long hair like roots. The roots should look bright white and bushy like pom poms. For 30 seconds, avery 3 minutes these misters are pumping a micro fine mist into the root zone. Not saturating the roots but just misting them. That is the main difference between this method and the AeroGarden design. Sprayer and misters are in fact two different things yes water comes out of each of them, but one is sprayed out the other is misted. I will take it as a compliment when you called my mylar a mirror lol. What I did was measure and cut 1/4" thick cardboard to match the walls, then I taped on some mylar that I cut to fit the cardboard. The result is what you are seeing as a mirror so I guess I did a great job laying it in there.

I hope I fed you guys some good info so far, I am trying to keep you all interested and maybe pick up a fews grow buddies. I would like to entice as many of you as I can to come over to the True Aero Growing emporium.


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## JordanTheGreat (May 3, 2008)

have you ever used those ceramic mateal halide lamps before...? i have seen them in lower wattages that have digital ballasts that are sold with them, why aren't these compatable with a horticultural digital ballast? (if its in that link then i skimmed over it)


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## JordanTheGreat (May 3, 2008)

and just curious... if they do kick ass as much as phillips claims, then wont you need to light proof that root chamber, rez too?


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## mdgcmd (May 3, 2008)

You are absolutely right about the rez chamber and lightproofing. I use Al foil and duct tape to light proof. I like to do this because I use half as much of my precious duct tape lol. Al foil like the box in the picture cost .98 cents and will double as freezer wrap when I am done with it.
Anyway check out THIS link for all you could ever want to know about CMH. But if you not intrested in the search and read, or just lazy this is a quote from that thread.



> However, in a nut shell - The arc tube and gas charge of the CMH has a limit to the frequency that it can tolerate. The core and coil classics run at around 60hz. This is good for the CMH's arc tube. There are specially tuned e-ballasts that run at about 200-400hz and have a very specific square wave output. (wave form). If you run outside of these parameters like the 80khz - 200khz non-square wave form output that the lumatek and others use, the arc tube may rupture, color shift will be present and in some cases the arc tube will develop a resonance that can be heard and cause emi/rf interfearance with electronic devices in your home and the neighboors.
> 
> Not to mention the bulb manufacturers say NO NO NO NO!!!


So there you have it lol the reason CMH are no good for D-ballasts.

I will post up some quotes from those pages to help gather some good info right here in this thread. So keep in mind that these are not my words but the words of the great minds that first intrigued me a year ago when I first started parting this setup together. 
They have become known to me as:
Pod Racer, JustaTry, PurpleSeed, and Gronut to name a few. There are many more that we can all learn from but this ifo is not easy to find.

I am looking into a thread right now regarding nutrient tables specifically for TAG.


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## mdgcmd (May 3, 2008)

Ok so I added some small upgrades to the plumbing lines because the other ones were not flexible enough when the floor rolled out. Also this black tube is lightproof without having to tape or use foam covering. At first it was having trouble sucking up water, then I took a look and seen that the filter was backwards and needed to be taking care of. I also took a pic of the box with the light reflector in it. I guess it will give you all a better imagine of what is going on.


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## potroast (May 4, 2008)

Good looking stuff! I assume that True Aero means always having the roots suspended, and never submerged in the runoff flow. So how much space do you have for your roots to hang? I'd say that you can count on root growth of at least a foot a week.

HTH


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## mdgcmd (May 4, 2008)

Will the tote that the roots are in is something like 22 gallons, I would say that I have about a foot from lid to bottom. And yes you are right about the roots suspending, and because of the way I designed the system there is not really any "runoff" it drains right back into the res, but I know what you meant. I read on one of the links I posted that one of the guys was getting 2 full CM of vertical every 12 hours. The roots on the other hand really should not get to big. They are supplied with everything that they need and do not need to go looking if you know what I mean.





These are what the roots should look like, little pom pom roots is what we call them. Once again this is not my picture or my idea, but I think I am the first on this site to mention anything about it.


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## bigwheel (May 4, 2008)

Hey MD..thanks a lot for them tips on the lights. That is whut I need most of all. Remind me later if I forget about this topic. Thanks. 

Big Wheel


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## mdgcmd (May 4, 2008)

Dude I am just happy to have helped you out. There is no need to thank me but I appreciate it without a doubt. Thank you for listening in and being intrested in my journal. I will name it later in the journal section and then copy and paste a bunch of info from here to there. Before I do all that I need to finish this box and figure out what seeds I should grow. Once I get it all together I will think of a catchy clever name that will keep us all coming back. From searching around I would say that I have a unique setup for this website. By no means is this an original idea but I haven'e seen anything like this here. I have a cutting edge light system, and virtually the very best grow method in use today. I am still crossing the learning curve and I fear that I am not even around the bend. I would like to encourage everyone to participate in this thread, and hopeful I can encourage some of you to try your hand at this technique. The info is out there and together we can popularize this method.

This method focuses on a "perfect" root zone environment. Obviously nothing is perfect so we all do our best right. We all know that DWC is a great way to grow and is pretty fast right. Now what if your plants grew 45% faster in terms of size not maturity. If you can obtain as close to a perfect root zone as possible we already know the better the root the better the plant.

Go and check out the links I posted there is an enormous amount of pictures that will impress even the most veteran of growers.


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## potroast (May 5, 2008)

Like I said, the roots will grow to the bottom in a week, and bunch up into a thick mat of solid roots. After a couple of months, it won't look so perfect. 

HTH


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## mdgcmd (May 5, 2008)

I can't say for certain if that will happen or not but I can say that it isn't suppose to. From what I have gathered the roots do grow large but nothing like in an NFT or DWC systems. In a DWC system the water level should be lower than your netpot as I am sure most of us here know. We do this to help encourage root growth, and it can also help in root rot prevention. With an NFT system roots follow the water as is runs, when the water stops the roots go looking. The NFT systems that are similar to aero systems irrigated by a pump and sprayer I mean, the roots follow the drips down to the bottom of the tank. 

With a true aero system the mist is fine enough that it is absorbed very fast through the root pores. The mist is also on only long enough to feed the roots, and NOT SATURATE them causing drips. If there is no water for the roots to try and stretch to then they won't stretch. Once you fined the right watering schedules (be it 30sec. ON/ 3min. OFF, or 40sec. ON/ 2,in. OFF) the roots will never starve for water/nutes, and will never need to go searching for water.

I think I said all that right, and it really makes a lot of sense when you think about it.


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## mdgcmd (May 5, 2008)

I made some more progress tonight but ran into some issues as well. As far as the progress goes I got me scrog screen inplace and mounted to the lid of the tote. I think that I did a really good job attaching the screen, it is actually very taught on level. I believe the dimension are 25"x17" so that will be my total plant growth area inside the box.




















As for the bad news I cannot get my pump to prime and pressurize the lines. I am not getting any mist what so ever in the tote. I am not entirely sure what the problem as of right now. Tomorrow I plan to go to HD and buy new hose and run direct from the rez to the pump. I will rig the filter up so that is it mounted to the pump instead of the middle of the suction line. In the third pic you can see the filter very well and you can notice that it looks like it is slanted, so I think it might have an effect on the pump. There is also a chance that there is a leak somewhere in the line so that is why I am running just one tube. I am thinking that this will at least tell me if there is a line leak or if my pump is pooped. I hope the pump is ok as it was very expensive and is not is the budget. I did drop it about a week ago but I have had it pumping on many occasions sense then.


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## HATCH (May 5, 2008)

Nice Set up!!

Be nice to see some Plant's in it.HEHEHE


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## mdgcmd (May 5, 2008)

Hahaha I wish I had plants but then again what good are they if you are not finished building there bedroom lol. I have been working out the pump issues and the damn thing seem to work when it wants to. I am going out to the garage right now to see what I can get together. Hopefully I can get things worked out better.


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## mdgcmd (May 5, 2008)

Ok I just came in from the garage and I am as frustrated as when I went out there. t seems that I cannot work the pump mounted like that. I had to mount the pump upside down, which now makes the inlet, outlet lines cross each other. This really isn't that big of a deal but just not what I had planned. I also had to remove the filter to get it to prime and pump water through the misters. 

So now as it sets the system is working without the filter, and with crossed lines. There is nothing I can do about the lines being crossed but I a hoping that I can fix the filter problem.


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## HATCH (May 5, 2008)

Say Bro, I took another look at Your Pic's, When your last Post came in.

Is that Your Pump, Way up Above the Pod???

Can You not move it down, to the res. level?? It will work alot better. & I wouldn't make that pump, pump above the pod. You would have better volume if it ran a shorter distance to the Mister's.

Ya, You can pull your hair out getting it to work to Your Satisfaction.

Good Luck!!!~~~~~


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## mdgcmd (May 5, 2008)

That was a thought that had crossed my mind, and have yet to rule out. The manual says that I am good for up to 6' between the pump and the tank (rez). I am about half that so I have to assume at least at the moment that, that is not the reason. I suspect that the pump falling from about 3' high may have an influence on this issue. As of right now it is working again but the pump is upside down from the way I had it before, I am not sure why that makes a difference considering all the time I had it running in the upright position for the longest time. Also as I was reading through the manual I noticed it said universal mount. At any rate here soon I will go back and play with it, I will take a packed bowl in case I get irritated again lol.

Thanks a lot for the suggestion too by the way. I almost forgot to mention that. Please stay tuned for more to come, I could use more of that advice in the near future.


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## HATCH (May 6, 2008)

Are You sure it doesn't say, (It will Pump, up-to 6'). & are You sure You have the in & out of the flo of the pump?

With the pump that high from the res., It can't get a good Prime. Just use some Hose, & lower Your Pump to res. height or even underneath. Just for a experiment, to make sure the pump is strong enough to handle what You are after??


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## mdgcmd (May 6, 2008)

Hatch you have great points but I am afraid you are too late. What I mean is that I got it worked out. As of right now the pump is pumping away and running like a charm. I think that the reason I was having problems that I damaged something inside the pump with the fall. Now as long as I have it mounted upside down it works great. I reinstalled the filter and everything, and it seems to be running as intended. You are right about the pump in regards to its placement. I would get better results if I place the pump lower towards the rez. The biggest issue with that is that there are no studs to screw the pump to. The mylar is taped to cardboard, and the cardboard is about 1/2" from the wall. Basically I have three horizontal studs behind the mylar. One at the top, the bottom, and right below the shelf were the pump is mounted. I will however look into it, so don't be surprised if you see it lowered like you say later on down the road.

I was looking at the light setup and the scrog screen and I see that there is about 14" of space till the plants hit the light. I am working on making the light somewhat air cool using 120mm PC fans. I am expecting the buds to be about 8' or so, ao I am thinking as long as I am careful I should not have heat stress issues with the plants. The bulb resemble an HPS so it's not a big fat MH like you would think a CMH would look like. 

All and all things are back on track and my lights should get here Thursday. I am still not sure about my timer, but it should be here about the same time. I can deal with out a timer for a little while as I still need seeds, hell I need to figure out what seeds I should get.


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## RandomJesus (May 6, 2008)

I made a Aero system grew fast, got me high, tasted flat.
went right back to soil.


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## mdgcmd (May 6, 2008)

Well my friend I am glad that you like your soil. Me personally I like getting high, and have been smoking hydro nugs for so long I have grown attached to its characteristics and tastes. I smoke pot for the pleasure of getting high, not because I need it medically, and not because it taste good. Where I live I cannot just go bailing old used up dirt out in my backyard. I can however send lightly fertilized water down my drain lol. Also I do not feel like waiting around for 4 months while my root bound plants are awaiting harvest.

Seriously though please do not come into my thread and start a soil vs aero argument. This is a thread that is intended to inform and hopefully encourage ppl. Maybe you will see what I am doing and come over to aeroponics, I know you said you have before but I doubt it was like this. I really want ppl to understand that this is 
"TRUE" AERO GROWING. "TRUE" is the key word here friends, this is not a makeshift aeroponics sytem, the Aerogarden is a makeshift system, it is NOT real aeroponics. All those sytem that use those sprayers ARE NOT REAL aeroponic systems. These are what I like to call hybrid NFT/Aeroponics. The root zone is SATURATED by SPARYER causing the roots to drip water. In a TAG environment the roots are not suppose to drip, they are NOT suppose to be saturated. They are "MISTED" not "SPRAYED" therefore the water particles are so fine that they virtually fall into the root lenticels, and have no time to drip off.

It is late and I am getting frustrated with your post. It has no baring on anything constructive. It is almost as if you came in here to shit on my thread, and claim soil is better. Well maybe in terms of taste but that is as far as i go as far as I am concerned. 

READ my links guys they are very intresting and may be the very thing that brings you over to the TAG arena. If you think you have what it take to TAG then join the ride, tickets are free.


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## HATCH (May 6, 2008)

RandomJesus said:


> I made a Aero system grew fast, got me high, tasted flat.
> went right back to soil.


Say Bro, Maybe so Maybe No, But it might have been Your Strain??? I've been Aeroponic's For over ten Year's, My Bud's tast Freaking Amazing, I have had some Soil Indoor that tasted like Dirt!!!

But to Each, His On!!!!!Smoke on My Brother!!!!~~~~~~


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## HATCH (May 6, 2008)

mdgcmd said:


> Well my friend I am glad that you like your soil. Me personally I like getting high, and have been smoking hydro nugs for so long I have grown attached to its characteristics and tastes. I smoke pot for the pleasure of getting high, not because I need it medically, and not because it taste good. Where I live I cannot just go bailing old used up dirt out in my backyard. I can however send lightly fertilized water down my drain lol. Also I do not feel like waiting around for 4 months while my root bound plants are awaiting harvest.
> 
> Seriously though please do not come into my thread and start a soil vs aero argument. This is a thread that is intended to inform and hopefully encourage ppl. Maybe you will see what I am doing and come over to aeroponics, I know you said you have before but I doubt it was like this. I really want ppl to understand that this is
> "TRUE" AERO GROWING. "TRUE" is the key word here friends, this is not a makeshift aeroponics sytem, the Aerogarden is a makeshift system, it is NOT real aeroponics. All those sytem that use those sprayers ARE NOT REAL aeroponic systems. These are what I like to call hybrid NFT/Aeroponics. The root zone is SATURATED by SPARYER causing the roots to drip water. In a TAG environment the roots are not suppose to drip, they are NOT suppose to be saturated. They are "MISTED" not "SPRAYED" therefore the water particles are so fine that they virtually fall into the root lenticels, and have no time to drip off.
> ...


Glad You got it running. Hope it run's OK like that for Ya.

& Hey Bro, Ya I've read all about This System You have Built, I followed the Build & Experimenting with it back in 05 on the other site. Ya it is a good System. But hey You are not in the right place to be knocking all the other DIY system that do a Great Job for other Grower's.

With that said, I wish You the Best of Luck with Your New System, But we are all in this together Right???


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## JordanTheGreat (May 6, 2008)

Another thing to think about mayne... you said that you had trouble priming the pump, lines, and all that noise... mite wanna think about a foot valve of some sort, prevents backflow when the pump shuts off. if its not a self priming pump then you mite wanna grab one and see how it works for you...


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## JordanTheGreat (May 6, 2008)

and as far as all this taste shit... im purddy sure that as long as you get that GOOD flush on in the end, and that GOOD cure that aythang should be tasty...ryte?


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## mdgcmd (May 6, 2008)

Thanks for the tip Jordon I will look into that.

Hatch I am sorry if it came out like that but I was not trying to nock any of the other DIY systems. I used and built most of them already, they were all awesome in there own way. I was just pointing out that this in not the same as what most people see or think about when they hear the term aeroponics. Usually when a person, myself included hears, or sees aero they think sprayer and mag pumps. The fact of the matter is that true aero will not work with a mag pump, and those run of the mill sprayer are not made for aeroponics. I wasn't trying to knock any one or anything.


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## HATCH (May 6, 2008)

All Good My Brother!!~~~~~~Hey I'll look back in Your Thread or Go to the other site. But what are The Mister Tip's that you are using Called, & Can I get a good pic of one? Or are they Fogger's?

I use 1400 GPH Pump's, Through My Mister's, There is A real Fine Mist. Ya Mag.Pump's can't get near the flo that I like. I use In-Line Jet-Pump's, & Submersible Pump's.

What is going to be Your Watering Schedule???


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## mdgcmd (May 7, 2008)

The misters I am using are called "Superfine Misters' They can be found at the bottom of this page. Get the white one as the other ones are to big of a droplet. To be honest 55 microns is borderline as far as droplet size. 30-80 microns is about the size of the lenticels on the roots, so anything smaller that 30 is more of a fog, anything bigger than 80 saturates the root mass, and becomes more of and NFT type system.

Ok as for my status on my grow... well I am still right where I was. Water system is in place, light will be here Thurs. along with my timer. I have reflective mylar up all the way around, and my hood/reflector is mounted in place. I am currently working on a way to make my batwing reflector somewhat aircooled.





My plan was to mount 2 120mm PC fans on the sides of the mogul socket, then mount a really powerful (130CFM) 120mm PC fan at the other end but centered so that it is in front of the bulb (but at the end of the reflector). At that point I will just need to mount a piece of glass or lexan. Lexan is good up to 300 degrees F but I am unsure if that is enough for an air cooled reflector. To be honest I am thinking that I will not see any plant growth for about another month. I am not buying any seed as of yet, but I have 2 bag seed that I pulled out of a bag of good Dro that I bought a while back. I am still unsure how I will get these seeds to grow in a medium free system. The best I can think of is to use the left over 1" rock wool cubes that I have left. Beside that there really isn't anything new going on.

Oh and about the water schedule... I am not sure if you mean the nute schedule or just how often I water them. I have no nute schedule YET, but for watering I am planning to do a 30seconds on/ 3 minutes off.


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## HATCH (May 7, 2008)

Thank's For the Link. Good Stuff. Ya that what I was woundering on the watering.

Sound's Good.


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## JordanTheGreat (May 7, 2008)

Thats easy man... get like a shallow cake pan, some vermiculite, and some water. fill up the pan til bout 3/4" from the top wid vermiculite. nestle the seeds in there pointing down ward, far enough where you can still see the back of the seed.water until surface shows saturation...these will root in the pan and when they are of an appropriate transplant size, you take sum rubber stoppers i think a #10 will work( size ). bore out the middle to about an inch and a half. make a cut so they are like a broken circle. drill holes in chamber lid that will hold stoppers tightly. take rooted cuttings and wrap them up to the cotyledons in polyester fiber until they fit snugly into the stoppers. those should hold watever the lid can...


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## email468 (May 7, 2008)

subscribed - looking forward to seeing some greenery in there!


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## mdgcmd (May 7, 2008)

Once again Jordan TY... I will do the Vermiculite and cake pan thing, but I am planning on using neoprene plugs, or maybe pool noodles. The vermiculite should come right off the roots when I add them to the grow chamber. 

Hatch- I like these misters a lot, I was using the red aerocloner sprayers but was a bit unhappy with them. It's not that they didn't do a good job, it's just not what I wanted. I was looking for a mist and not a spray like I said before. I do want to inform you though that these mister need like at least 40PSI in order to work properly.

I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT TO EVERYONE THAT A MAG-DRIVE PUMP WILL NOT WORK WITH THESE MISTERS.
THESE MISTERS ARE DESIGN FOR LOW FLOW HIGH PRESSURE USE.

The problem is that mag drive pumps are designed for high flow low pressure. I am not familiar with submersible or jet flow pumps, but for a smaller system like mine RV Diaphragm pumps work great. They are design for just such situations of intermittent on/off use. 

Come back tonight and I will have more pictures for us. I am building my air-cooled reflector and will post pics.


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## mdgcmd (May 8, 2008)

No power in my garage??? I will have to try and work tomorrow.


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## 1freezy (May 8, 2008)

Along for the ride!


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## mdgcmd (May 10, 2008)

Well My garage still has no power so as you can imagine I am still trouble shooting that situation. On the other hand I didn't let it keep me from my work. I got the fans rigged up to the reflector and I wired up the bulb and ballast. As you can see I got my lights in today, but the CMH bulb is defective so they are sending me new one. Naturally I have to send the defective one back to them, but I think it is a waste of shipping charges. I am nearly 100% done with this box and I will soon need to start picking out some seeds hmm. 




So what do you think... did I do OK or crappy? I am still building the ballast box so the ballast looks like a wired mess. I chose to build my own ballast box because I plan to add heatsink and fans to the ballast. I read that if you keep you ballast cool it will reduce the buzz sound.


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## mdgcmd (May 11, 2008)

Well aside from the light and fixture I have been lazy and not stepped into my garage. It really doesn't help that for what ever reason I have no more power in there. At any rate am trying to recap what I have gone and still need to do. I would like to get in there today and get some shit done.

As of right now I have the water irrigation in place and secured. I managed to allow the rolling floor to work as I intended it to. 

I DO need to resecure the grown bin to the res lid. I am thinking about using a poly caulk instead of the silicone caulk I used earlier. I recently read that the silicone, will last forever but is just not a strong bold for heavy handling application. 

I DO still need to light proof the grow chamber and the rez. to prevent any light from getting into the root zone or the rez. chamber. I am going to use Al foil for this as I find it really easy to work with, not to mention it save a lot on duct tape. Duct tape is fairly cheap but the foil is much cheaper and is more effective at keeping light out.

I am hoping that the ventilation system is adequate enough for the cabinet size. I know that the exhaust fan is powerful enough to clear the cabinet but I am not sure if can do the job fast enough extract all the heat. One of the reasons I decided to grow with a CMH was because of the heat of the HPS. Granted that I am loosing about 10000 lumens but I also loose about 100F in bulb heat. The light is also a more adequate for the combination of veg/flwr, compared to just an HPS.

My light will be adjustable but for the most part it will not move. I have only about 14 inches of vertical height above the trellis. So as you can imaging once I the plants reach the trellis I will move the light up to the top and it will stay there for most of the grow. I will also finish rigging the light/fixture to the inside of the cabinet this afternoon.

I will soon be completely done with the building but I feel as if I am leaving out some stuff. Can you guys please help me go through a checklist, I just want to make sure that I am not forgetting anything important. Thanks a lot guys for checking in and leaving feedback. it really does mean a lot to me, I know that it sounds gay (not derogatory) but I really do appreciate any and all feedback that you can give.


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## quazzy10 (May 11, 2008)

I'm definately sitting in on this one


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## mdgcmd (May 11, 2008)

Pics to come in an hour or so to update you all "visually" of our progress. I wish that the CMH bulb didn't blow/malfunction, so that you could all see what it is like. So as for right now I am using the cheap HPS to make it all look good.

Are there any requests, I mean for pictures... is there anything that you want to see?


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## mdgcmd (May 11, 2008)

Hello again roll it up, I bring you some updates and eye candy. The first is a close up of inside the growth area of the box. I believe that the height from aero pod lid to the light is roughly 28". The trellis is about 12" away from the aero pod lid, and the trellis is about 14" or so from the bulb. Once I get the CMH in there I think that 14" is just fine. The CMH being a cooler bulb and still having the fans on the reflector will help in this situation.










The second picture you can see the cabinet in operation. Lights, fans, irrigation system, and exhaust are all online. The top self is where my ballast and such is, you will see this close up in a later pic. I really dig the new irrigation lives. The pump is more silent because I took out the PVC. Once it was removed there was nothing stiff to cause vibration. 

This next picture is just another one of the floor rolling out. With the new hoses being much more flexible than the other clear braided hose I was using. I am now able to roll the floor out easily and the hoses just follow right along, not to mention they're black. Grabbing the rez will be a sinch when ever I have to change out the nutes.










Here you can see it running from another angle, not much to explain but you get a good view.


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## StinkBud (May 12, 2008)

Your plants will outgrow your box using any form of aeroponics. Expect 2-3 times the growth rate over soil.

After many years of testing I found that the water droplet size is not a big deal. In fact you allow more O2 to the roots by using a timer. A timer allows the roots to hang in pure air for 5 minutes. It's all about O2 to the roots, not water and nutrients. A timer also helps keep your reservoir water cool.

Right now I'm running 2900PPM with a complete organic nutrient solution. Pump on for 1 minute and off for 5 minutes.


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## zkt (May 12, 2008)

Looks good to me. Was thinking along the same design lines but would have to round up a high pressure pump and mist heads. Another way might be to use an aerosol head and compressor. An ordinary asthma nebulizer puts out a fine smoke like mist or can take the top off for larger particles. Doubt if the compressor is rated continous duty but a 10-25% duty cycle might work fine. Controling the noise might be the hard part. I`m still thinkin on how to proceed or just let well enought alone. The dirts doing just fiine. let us know how your setup is working out.


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## akbuds (May 12, 2008)

this is a very intresting grow. I am looking forward to seeing some green growing in there. 

Mdgcmd I hope this grow meets all your expections. It looks like you have invested alot of time and money into this set up. It will be really great if it performs like you are predicting.

As far as blacking out your res and grow chamber i hear the krylon fusion paint on the outside works really well. I am getting ready to paint my grow chambers on my little aerohybred system but i can decide what color  . I has thinking yellow to reflect the light away from my grow chambers and wont heat it up. Or do you guys think i should use a darker color?


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## zkt (May 12, 2008)

Damn another good one ! I take it your gong with the high pressure pump and aerosol heads and are convinced that it will work better than a magdrive pump and spray heds in a pipe huh ? Keep us posted please.


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## mdgcmd (May 12, 2008)

ZKT I am using a high pressure smart pump, and 55 micron mister heads. These heads produce a slightly finer that aerosol mist. The pump is a Shurflo Smart Sensor 5.7, it runs about 200.00 USD and I pray it lasts for quite some time. This pump will pressurize up to 65psi then automatically shut off until pressure reaches about 55psi.

AK I would love to paint instead of foil, it would save me a lot of time and work. I think that yellow would be great but I think that a primer would be useful for the first 2 coats. I was worried about the paint fumes affect the respiration of the stomata. 

Stinkbud I am waiting on my timer to come it the mail. I ordered a CAP recycle timer. It will be on a 30 seconds on/ 3 minutes off cycle. I am sure that I will need to adjust it a few times to get it just right for the plants. Hopefully it will not be to much trouble to get it all worked out.

Keep coming back guys, when I have a bit more time I will put up the rest of my picutres. I have a nice "in the dark" picture with a nice view of light leaks... well actually the lack of light leaks lol.


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## Earl (May 12, 2008)

I know I'm not a TAG,
but I use 10min on 30min 0ff
and then later use 10 on 120 off.

Check out my _non TAG_ aero grow.
The link is in my signature.

.


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## mdgcmd (May 12, 2008)

Wow Earl it looks great... are they growing right now or did you already harvest them already?
Honestly Earl the only real difference between TAG and the aero that I see around here is the pump and misters. That is really all that separates me from the rest of the growers around these parts. If you went out and bought a different pump and misters we would essentially have a TAG setup.

We can all see that your system is a great one and you seem to have it all in order. I hope that my plants look as good as your plants do. The same goes out to you Stinkbuds your crop look very nice and very healthy. My plants may grow a bit faster but I can only hhope that they look as good as all your plants.


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## Earl (May 12, 2008)

mdgcmd said:


> Honestly Earl the only real difference between TAG
> and the aero that I see around here
> is the pump and misters.


And the word *"True"*

.


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## mdgcmd (May 13, 2008)

Yeah that too Earl lol.

Here is some interesting info on element ratios dealing with hydro and even more sensitive to TAG.


> By POD RACER from IC Mag:
> Here is some very valuable information I just uncovered concerning ratios for hydro. These I'm sure are applicable to TAG to a more defined degree I'm afraid, but as there have been nothing but K def and Ca and Mg issues with TAGing fertilizers this information should aid in remedying any deficiencies.
> 
> 
> ...


I will start posting tid-bits of information for myself and other. This will serve as a reference to me nd hopefully to some other that join the fun that is called TAG.


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## mdgcmd (May 13, 2008)

I do not have direct permission to copy and paste but as long as I am given credit and not taking it I do not see any harm being done. Also I am more than eager to point out and give credit anywhere it is due. POD RACER IMO has an incredible mind for research and information. His words IMO are to be taken very seriously and I believe them to be thoroughly test and true. He has done extensive and expensive amounts of research, along with having the personal notes from the father of TAG. His work regarding TAG is among the most compiled and comprehensive that I have found thus far. I will be taking reference to many of his informative posts.


> More from POD RACER... Copy and pasted from IC Mag.
> 
> Welcome All,
> 
> ...


It is my intent to develop the same attraction here as he did on OG and IC Mag. I would like to build a legion of "aeropodders" to help add to the already existing legion. The more the merrier, and the more people can contribute their own knowledge of the art. Save up. Setup, and grow... TAG growing is what I am talking about. The results of a well tuned TAG system should easily annihilate any and all rival forms of growing. It increased rate of growth is unmatched, and can only be beaten out by a better, and finer tuned TAG system. NASA isn't testing and trying to perfect this technique for no reason, it's because a team of rocket scientist feel the same way as the rest of us TAGers feel. And for informational purposes NASA also has an immense amount of "True Aeroponic" information. As immense as it is however I find that POD RACER'S info is more suitable and directed at marijuana.


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## mdgcmd (May 13, 2008)

So I was just curious to know what you guys think of all of POD's research. Obviously he has spent LOTS of time with himself lol. I have the utmost respect for his efforts and works discovered. 

His work with nutrients uptake and the ratio between the nutrients in regards to uptake are from literally years of research. He has found that DM One is balanced, and design just for aeroponics. It is also part of his belief that they made the "One" series just for marijuana. 

Remember guys I love to hear and read your feedback, it is almost like a piece of cake on a pole to me. I find it easier and more excited to hear what you all have to say. I find that people like what I am doing and it encourages me to keep on doing it.


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## email468 (May 13, 2008)

mdgcmd said:


> So I was just curious to know what you guys think of all of POD's research. Obviously he has spent LOTS of time with himself lol. I have the utmost respect for his efforts and works discovered.
> 
> His work with nutrients uptake and the ratio between the nutrients in regards to uptake are from literally years of research. He has found that DM One is balanced, and design just for aeroponics. It is also part of his belief that they made the "One" series just for marijuana.
> 
> Remember guys I love to hear and read your feedback, it is almost like a piece of cake on a pole to me. I find it easier and more excited to hear what you all have to say. I find that people like what I am doing and it encourages me to keep on doing it.


I think it is very interesting but I am in no position to judge the accuracy - I can barely keep my little aero/bubbler grow going 

I enjoy reading it though and dreaming... someday....


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## LoudBlunts (May 13, 2008)

with that said email, are you going to try dm one?


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## email468 (May 13, 2008)

LoudBlunts said:


> with that said email, are you going to try dm one?


I figure i have at least a few years of working out the bugs with current system (judging from how long it took me to get something from my little bubbler).

by then maybe we'll all be growing in dixie cups with LED lights


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## LoudBlunts (May 13, 2008)

dont forget the plasma lights!!!!!


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## akbuds (May 13, 2008)

TMI (to much information) I think my head is about to explode....


Mdgcmd said:


> He has done extensive and expensive amounts of research, along with having the personal notes from the father of TAG. His work regarding TAG is among the most compiled and comprehensive that I have found thus far. I will be taking reference to many of his informative posts.


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## Earl (May 13, 2008)

You still haven't pointed to any of podracers pictures.

He is all blow and no show.

He cut's and paste stuff from other websites 
and now he is an authority?

Where is this infamous podracer today?

.


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## Earl (May 13, 2008)

Let's face it.
I'm jealous.
He got a movie, 
and all I got was a TV show.

Wonder who will make it to DVD first?
.


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## email468 (May 13, 2008)

Earl said:


> You still haven't pointed to any of podracers pictures.
> 
> He is all blow and no show.
> 
> ...


so more hot air and baloney around growing ... just what we need. At least now we know - thanks for pointing that out, Earl.


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## Earl (May 13, 2008)

Oh and by the way I want to admit I am a plagerist,
with great cut and paste skills also.

.


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## akbuds (May 13, 2008)

i couldnt read it to many big words...


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## mdgcmd (May 13, 2008)

Pod is probably working for NASA or something. I don't know him personally and will never get to meet him so I don't care to know where he is. I know that he is a hot head and flys off the handle when people troll his threads and insult his intelligence and work, then again who wouldn't. For anyone that doesn't know the guy was banned from several sites for his seemingly inaproprate actions... not my business. I am interested in his work, and the research he has devoted his time too. This guy IMO is a dedicated researcher and therefore genuinely enjoys learning accurate information. I follow his guidelines so far and you guys see what I have done. This setup is damn near state of the art, this rig manufactured is built by Biocontrol or some Co. like that. They sell them for around 1500.00 you can all google it and let me know. This is the same form of growth NASA experiments with and choses to invest there time into... the NASA comment up top.

Take it how you want it but sincerily with all due respect don't insult his work as I feel it to be accurate and chose to follow. With this in mind you are almost insulting me, as to call me a fool for following. Now I am sure that it's not what you meant by any means so I am not the type to read into it and get defensive. But I think he has devoted very valuable amounts of time to this subject and therefore deserves a certain amount of respect. Whether people like him or his work it was all done for the benefit of all the grower everywhere. I deem his work valuable and chose to give him great credit for his contribution to this technique. That is what it is and that is that, take it how you want it fellas peace and have I godd night time to go to work.


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## zkt (May 13, 2008)

I`m working my way thru your thread. U mentioned Al foil. Mylar is good stuff. Good wallpaper and reflector covering. Foam board and tape makes good cheap reflectors. Lotsa ideas here.


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## mdgcmd (May 14, 2008)

I am unable to find any remaining pics from Pod. It appears that when he was banned they removed all his pictures as well. I remember very clearly looking at MANY picture posted by POD. As far as him copy and pasting them, well that is just what one man said about another, and no way to prove it either way.


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## CustomHydro (May 14, 2008)

Subscribed


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## Earl (May 14, 2008)

mdgcmd, I hope you don't get your feelings hurt,
but where are _your _pix.

Come here mdgcmd, and give me hug.

I am always glad to meet a fellow "test pilot"

I am just trying to save you from spending cash like I did.

But if you have the budget for experimentation, 
then I say, "Show your Grow"

We are all waiting for you.

So,... teach us the latest and greatest methodology.

Lead the way into that unknown frontier, fellow test pilot.

Open your wallet, 
and then light that candle!

I hope you have "Sky High" results.

.


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## CustomHydro (May 14, 2008)

Earl said:


> mdgcmd, I hope you don't get your feelings hurt,
> but where are _your _pix.
> 
> Come here mdgcmd, and give me hug.
> ...


I'm learning that learning to grow costs big money! On a $75 30min aero tub I have about a weeks worth of work into it and $500+dollars. Those constant trips to Home Depot kill me on gas!


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

CustomHydro said:


> I'm learning that learning to grow costs big money! On a $75 30min aero tub I have about a weeks worth of work into it and $500+dollars. Those constant trips to Home Depot kill me on gas!


It helps to start out with a really good and sound plan and price things out online. Another thing to watch out for is over buying things like lights and nutrients. 

But yes, it can get pricey fast.


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## mdgcmd (May 14, 2008)

Earl it sounds like you are the one that need a hug. This is actually my second post, I stopped typing the first one as I started to fall into your trap. I luckily bounce back from my anger and became humble once again.

The pictures were removed as I sound before, and all his OG pictures, well sadly we all know what happened to OG. If can find one 56 page grow diary that has 0 yes 0 picture in it,, I mean not one single marijuana picture in 50+ pages of a thread on a marijuana growing web site is that a coincident? Well it doesn't really matter to me either way, I HAVE seen the pictures, I have read over 75 pages with 30 posts a page, I have been doing research. I have not grown this way before but I mean no body is because they are growing experts, and for one to call themselves experts they had better have A LOT of credentials to show for. By no means am I testing out anything, nor is this information NEW. NASA has been growing aeroponics for 10+ years, I would say that with there budget I'm sure they have discovered a large amount of what there is to learn. Am I making any sense guys? I just woke up and still haven't smoked yet so I am still a bit groggy. I do know either way that this is far from the "...the latest and greatest methodology.", and "unknown frontier". I am not pioneering anything new here ad I am also encouraging people to do there own research as I have been doing. They do not need to follow me, it is their choice and I can only help to encourage it. I give you my sincere and humble apologize IF I upset you in some way, I get the impression that you two have met in some form or another. I am sorry if you guys have bad vibes but PLEASE do not bring it here on my thread. I do not wish to have it cluttered with non-sense. I want it to have ON-TOPIC post as to help me stay on course with my reference work.

Once again sorry to everyone here, for going off topic, for stepping out of line, and for feeling so strongly about my work. POD has his trollers and he fell into the anger pit and said stuff he should not have said. I will not fall victim to his demise, me are all flawed as humans, but his mind is very bright and IF you read these links you will see that. This stuff goes back way before the OG days fellas so don't think I, or we, or he invented anything. Hes just focuses his reseach on marijuana.


JUST AN UPDATE:
I took a few days off including tomorrow, my job is demanding so I am tired often. I have the weekend off so I will continue progress then. I still have time so no big deal, I still need a few things not to mention seeds. Speaking of seeds I dp have two good bag seeds that I will use. That being said I guess I can actually start growing here in a couple weeks SWEET!!


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## mdgcmd (May 14, 2008)

I FOUND POD PICTURES. 

It appears that IC Mag did not remove the picture. there was a problem with their servers or something I am not sure. Last night they were not there today they are lol.

International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - Trick my Pod - The complete Aeroponics primer
International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - Trick my Pod - The complete Aeroponics primer
International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - Trick my Pod - The complete Aeroponics primer

JUST CHECK OUT AND READ THE DAMN THREAD AND YOU CAN ALL SEE.


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## Earl (May 14, 2008)

So what is the difference between this:





Podracers roots

and this:





Earl's roots.

I don't see the advantage or difference, 
except that you need to spend a lot more money.

Go for it.

Spend the bucks Buck Rogers.

.

.


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

a fucked up grower like myself can get roots to look like this... (32 days from seed)


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## Earl (May 14, 2008)

Those roots look like bud producers, 486

,


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## zkt (May 14, 2008)

You can`t compare these pics- its just a guess if one is better or worse than the other. And all the other variables-totally unknown. What is apparent is that letting the roots hang freely in a saturated enviroment of micron sized particles exposes the maximum root surface area to the nutes and to oxygen.The oxygen is important. If the roots are in water the O2 cant be adsorbed as fast. So true aero is theoretically better. Whether or not it makes much practical difference is open to debate- thats why we are doing this. A thinking person approaches the situation with an open mind and leaves his preconceived notions at the door and observes where the experiment goes. So lets just watch and see.
It would be nice to run a controlled study of various methods but that aint gonna happen.


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

Earl said:


> Those roots look like bud producers, 486
> 
> ,


I have no complaints about the end product! thanks for the kind words, Earl.


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## HATCH (May 14, 2008)

This Thread is ALOT OF BLOW WITH-OUT A GROW!!!!!!

Dude Any-One can Copy & Paste some-one elses work!!!!! Do something of Your Own!!!!!!!! So Some-One had Success with this System, That Great!!! But does not mean YOU WILL????????? You can't even keep the Juice On. You need to test the water's, Before Judgement!!!!!

And as far as Your Cab. There is not Enough Grow Space. If Your Plant do Grow????? Three Week's, & you will be Out Of Room!!!!!

Good Luck, & I Mean That, Because You Have Alot To Learn!!!!!


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## mdgcmd (May 14, 2008)

> I'm looking forward to it, I also have some friends on the way. They just need direction on how to get here, but they'll be here shortly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


POD RACERS SHIT LOOKS GOOD TO ME...

PICTURE WERE SOMEHOW REMOVED FROM THE POST


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## LoudBlunts (May 14, 2008)

calm down man.


you felted attacked and im sure other aero growers felt attacked as well.....what do you expect with this true - aero - growing tag? i mean really?

you try to pull earl's card and say his roots look very weak. well at least he has pics to prove whatever the end product is. where are your dwc root pics that were so greater than earl's? pics or it didnt happen.

you should take earl's advice and his comments. he's not trying to insult you. he's simply trying to save you a money hassle. he's told you many and many of times how he's tried the same type of setup.....but its a pit ful of money. why cant you respect that he's just looking out for you? may be tough love but what doesnt kill us makes us stronger.


you have ALOT of aggression...you okay over there buddy.


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## mdgcmd (May 15, 2008)

You cannot just go and insult a person and tell them it will not work. He was rude, and not informative at all. He said what... TAG is a joke and that was about it.

I no longer wish to report my progress and ask that a mod please close out this thread TY.


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## LoudBlunts (May 15, 2008)

[email protected]!!!!


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## mdgcmd (May 15, 2008)

For the record I didn't open a thread to deal with trolls, constructive criticism my butt. It was an attempt to shut me up and kill my grow and I decided to just keep my mouth shut and run with it. I did not give up I just gave in to what they wanted. I have 100% intent on keeping updates for those that care. Apparently I have a some supporters that express ther views through PM so I will keep the friendly mind posted.


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## LoudBlunts (May 15, 2008)

to shut you up? and kill your grow?

dude wake the fuck up..... you arent nobody special....nobody important. why in the fuck would it be an attempt to shut you up and kill your grow? like we really have time to single out mdgcmd LMAO...just fyi, we're not the DEA nor any narcotics interdiction officers....

get over yourself and stop wearing your heart on your sleeve. learn how to take constructive criticism


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## mdgcmd (May 15, 2008)

[email protected]!!!!


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## CustomHydro (Sep 27, 2008)

What happenned to this thread? I thought I was going to click on this page and see some PomPom root balls??? WTF 
I figured I would let u get ur shit together but it's been 6 months and still nothing...
I bet this guy don't even come to RIU anmore. If he does it's under a different screen name...


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## mdgcmd (Sep 28, 2008)

CustomHydro said:


> What happenned to this thread? I thought I was going to click on this page and see some PomPom root balls??? WTF
> I figured I would let u get ur shit together but it's been 6 months and still nothing...
> I bet this guy don't even come to RIU anmore. If he does it's under a different screen name...


As a matter of fact I do not come here anymore yo all seem to have a piss poor attitude. Why the hell do I want to come around a forum with a bunch of rude A-holes. Not to mention it has been around 4 months not 6 and I have 4 Cotton Candy seedlings right now awaiting transfer to the cabinet. If you guys weren't such dicks you could have been here when it all went down. It just so happens that I found a forum with a lot of really cool dudes that are more supportive than you guys around here. Obviously I am not referring to all the members, but if you feel I am talking about you then you are probably right.

For anyone that is still interested in my grow you can find a diary thread HERE. PLEASE DO NOT TROLL MY THREAD. I want to keep it clean and positive, and keep an optimistic environment.


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## mdgcmd (Sep 28, 2008)

I decided to post a few pictures of my little ones here. I hope that the dicks stay out and if so I might think about continuing this thread.












Like I said in the post above I left this place due to rude ignorant people that carry a bad attitude. If you are cool and you are still interested check out all the updates *IN THIS THREAD.*


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## CustomHydro (Sep 28, 2008)

Sorry, wasn't tryin to be a dick. Glad to see u haven't given up just because some people were dicks to you!
I think a lot of people were interested in this. U should come back... I know you have been researchin this for a long ass time and your information can benefit others. Just because some people knock it, doesn't mean others won't be interested.
Sometimes you just gotta let people talk shit and then prove them wrong later. I'm in the middle of some shit like that myself. Right now I have a whole shit load of people who hate me since I spoke bad about DrChronic. On the other hand, a couple people respect me for it. You have to stick to what u believe in sometimes no matter what people think!
I'll be watching for updates...GL


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## mdgcmd (Sep 28, 2008)

As long as people can keep their negativity to themselves I would love to update regularly. TBH I love attention, but who likes to be shit on when they are trying to do something. The thing is I have already invested a lot of money and to just switch up to another growing technique is a for sure waste of all my money. On the other hand if I try this way and it doesn't work at least I can say I tried to make it work. I know of many many people that have great success with TAG.

It is a complicated way to grow and I am looking forward to the challenge. This is the best way to grow it is just the most complicated way to grow. Everyone knows that a healthy plants start at the root zone. This technique is all about creating as near to a perfect root zone environment as possible. I have my res temps in check, my cabinet temps in check, PH is monitored and accounted for 24/7, and EC is also monitored and adjusted 24/7. Maybe I am optimistic but I think everything will be ok considering the attention to detail I posses.

At any rate this could be something great and I think people should keep their NEGATIVE comments to themselves. As said before I would like to update here as well as IC Mag. I have done loads of research and I would love to share all I have learned with everyone here there and every where. I just hate when people shit on my parade, but I guess I am nieva for thinking that they won't. I am putting them in the cabinet at some point today. I need to go to my garage and grab a 200w CFL so that I do not have to use the 400w CMH right away. I do not want to take a chance at killing these little plants by such intense light.


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## mdgcmd (Sep 28, 2008)




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## JordanTheGreat (Sep 29, 2008)

finally got her up and runnin eh...interesting, very interesting...


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## brendon420 (Sep 29, 2008)

at last! congrats on sticking around, hope to see some colas

what is the other site you have found is it IC? i prefer that site for info

hope you keep updating this regularly, you can ask people to not post until you ask, maybe thats the solution for you. 

good luck !


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## CustomHydro (Sep 29, 2008)

]Where did u get that 400 CMH bulb, u got a Pulse Start Ballast? I have been trying to get a 350 CMH bulb for my ballast for a long ass time, but I can also buy a 400watt ignitor for like 25 bux and get a 400cmh if I have to...!


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## mdgcmd (Sep 30, 2008)

I bought my light and ballast here for 100.00 bucks plus shipping.
Phlips MasterColor Ceramic Metal Halide ~ CMH ~ HPS-Retro White

As of right now I have them in the cabinet with the lights and everything on. I will add some pics in a few days.


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## CustomHydro (Sep 30, 2008)

Thanks for the link! What are those bubbles around the RW?


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## Eharmony420 (Sep 30, 2008)

i tink this thread awesome. not enuf aero growd here in diy aero. i get my 370 inline pump on thursday. That the big day when i go aero! Your thread helped. I will post all my diy plans and grow then. Thanks. Other sites are hilarious to read, you get to see what they think is "in" on their thread. Gardeners man, gotta be cool,


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## Eharmony420 (Sep 30, 2008)

Keep up the good work i just read your other site. can wait to see, what is =your medium and how wet please i know it a commomn wuestion was your rw for seeds. It si the trickiest part of growing. rw.lol


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## mdgcmd (Sep 30, 2008)

Those little bubble looking things that are holding the RW is just a cut pool noodle. It fits perfectly inside the PVC fitting, all I had to do was cut a square hole in the noodle for the RW.

@Eharmony420 I technically am not using a medium aside from the RW, but that was just to start the seeds. When clones come I will only be using the pool noodles. I am still dialing in the cabinet but so far things seem to be doning great. I have to say TY guys for your support. I love when us potheads can get together and admire one anothers grows. On the other hand I rREALLY hate the negativitl as I have expressed before. As long as it stays clean I will update on a regular basis and keep the RIU community up to date.


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## CustomHydro (Sep 30, 2008)

JordanTheGreat said:


> finally got her up and runnin eh...interesting, very interesting...


 What strain is that in ur avatar jordan?


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## sparkafire (Sep 30, 2008)

CustomHydro said:


> What strain is that in ur avatar jordan?


CY did bugs and i offend you? LOL where did you go?


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## mdgcmd (Sep 30, 2008)

So here are a few update pictures. If you follow the guide lines according to POD, JAT, and the others that I have been learning from you will see that I am right in the green zone. They say that RES. temps should be no higher than 72 and are optimal around 68F. My res temps have yet to rise above 70, and the room temps are at 78F. You can also see that my PH is right in the green as well. Aeroponics PH is said to be optimal between 5.4-5.8 and mine stays pretty consistent at about 5.5. Nute are still swinging around 320 ppm, to be honest I do not know if this is to much but Dutch Master suggests 800 for the first week of veggin, so I think I am ok. All and all I am pretty darn set as of right now but I already know that things can go south REALLY fast.


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## mdgcmd (Oct 1, 2008)

Just out of random I decided to check the PPM of the other two seedlings that are not in the cabinet. To my my most serious surprise the reading was over 1000ppm. Needless to say I took care of that pretty darn quick. I adjusted it to around 250ppm and rinsed the RW with the new water. They will be just fine but there is a lesson. The reason that the TDS was so high is actually elementary but over looked. These two seedling are still in a tray under a florescent. I feed them just by adding water to the try, but when the water dissolves the solids are still left behind. Ever time I added water the solids dissolved into the water raising the TDS. So I will keep that in mind from now on.


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## JordanTheGreat (Oct 2, 2008)

CustomHydro said:


> What strain is that in ur avatar jordan?


mr nice black widow from clone, SR-71 purple kush from clone


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## CustomHydro (Oct 2, 2008)

NICE! It looks fantstic!
I thought it may be Jack Herer cuz of ur sig...
I just put a 10 pack of Herer into germination... I'm excited, smoked a bunch of it last year, but never grew it.

Sorry for the hijack MDG... How do u like the trimeter?


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## mdgcmd (Oct 2, 2008)

The trimeter is a great asset to my garden. I don't know how I ever grew with out it LOL. With aeroponics reservoir temps are absolutely vital, and with any system PH is vital. The EC meter is great but not seriously needed in most types of gardening. Today the res temps dropped down to 58F and I was scared. I am not sure what effects this has on the root structure and development but I knew it couldn't be good. Temps are now at a safe 66F phew!!. I lowered the EC a bit to .55 and the PH down to 5.2. The PH gradually rises and this is good depending on how high it goes. I think that it is good because not all nutrients can be taken up at any specific PH. So that is why I allow mine to fluctuate between 5.2 and 6.0, but I try to stay in the 5.4-5.8 range... makes sense right. I wanted to share this thread with anyone that is a DIYer like me. It is a collection of ALL SORTS of different DIY related threads, I hope you enjoy.


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## mdgcmd (Oct 4, 2008)

Hey there guys I added a bunch more pictures can you please try and critic my plants. I am not sure that they look right. I am thinking that in some on the pictures the veins look a bit greener than the rest of the plant. Take a look at the pictures please and tell me what you think. Should I be concerned or not?
       

EDIT: In case you are wondering the Al. foil is to help light proof the res, and RW cubes.


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## bleubeard (Oct 4, 2008)

I don't know if this has been brought up yet (as I only briefly scanned through this thread), but is there any reason you have the plumbing system up so high? Common sense tells me that having water ABOVE your light is probably bad juju. Just a thought...


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## mdgcmd (Oct 4, 2008)

TBH I was worried about that as well. Unfortunately I dropped my pump one day and needs to be there to work properly. I don't know why but that is the position it needs to work. I am scared that one day it will stop working but I should have it covered NP. One of the reasons I am not worried that water will blast out from the pump is the mechanisms that hold the hoses to the pump. The design of the pump has these fasteners that will not allow the hoses to come off, they are actually very secure.

Way back in the design stage it was a thought of whether or not hte light would heat the pump, in turn heat the water. Black pump bright hot light, all I could think at the time was a HOT pump. 

So I need to know guys are they looking to green in the veins or what?


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## mdgcmd (Oct 7, 2008)

Well I am having some issues ALREADY!!! I am thinking N deficient, but I am not 100%. Yellowing seems to appear on the older/ lower leaves, and as far as I can tell between the veins. Take a look and please tell me what you think it may be and the best way to correct it.


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## mdgcmd (Oct 7, 2008)

Come on fellas please time is very important... does it look like N def.?


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## JordanTheGreat (Oct 7, 2008)

not to me... whats the strength of the solution your giving them?


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## mdgcmd (Oct 8, 2008)

At the time of the sickness they were at 425 ppm, I was suggested that it may be Ca deficient so I am looking into Cal-Mag Plus. If I can get some more help I could sure using it. They may not last the week if I cannot figure this out.


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## mdgcmd (Oct 8, 2008)

Here are updated pictures of the sickness. I hope that we can nip this in the butt soon. I already ordered Cal-Mag Plus but I had to use my PP account which is connected to me CC. So to go along with plant sickness I can add nervousness to the stress list.

        ​


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## HATCH (Oct 8, 2008)

What Do Your Root's Look Like???,,That's Where I Would Start~~~You May Have Just Went To Strong On THe Nut's, Or The PH Is Not Stable,, With The Aero-System's, Alittle Bit Will Do..

But You Are Right, They Are Bad Sick,,But I Would Start With The Root's & Flush Them Good, & Start Back 1/4 Strength From Where You Were, & If You Are'nt Using Supplement, You Need To Start,, They Help..~~Good Luck~~Later`~Hatch~~


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## JordanTheGreat (Oct 8, 2008)

if i read your meter correctly, 1350 ppm is a little high for something that young...kick it down to around five hunned or so and see how they look in a week


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## mdgcmd (Oct 8, 2008)

Jordon that is EC. 1.35 EC = 675 ppm. I just ordered Cal-Mag plus and I am hoping it will help. The roots look pretty darn good, they are nice and bright white. I am afraid that flushing will cause more harm than good. I am concerned that if it is deficient then a flush would only cause more of a deficiency. I am not saying that it will not help but I am just saying I am afraid it could make matters worse. 

Does anyone think it could be Mag. or Cal deficient?? I am using RO water so there is nothing in the water before I add the nutes. I read that you may need to add cal-mag to RO water.


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## HATCH (Oct 8, 2008)

OK, No Big Deal, Just Could Have Sworn You Were Asking For Help???

Ya, If You Use R.O. Water, You Have To Use Supplement's!!!

Here Is What You Want Them To look Like!!


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## mdgcmd (Oct 8, 2008)

Well those definately look great. I am not sure if I cam eoff wrong but if so I didn't mean too. I am eager to get what ever help I can. So if you guys can help them please by all mean speak your mind. I will try and give all the info you need, just let me know what you want to know.


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## DaveTheNewbie (Oct 9, 2008)

I wonder if your problem is related to too much water on the rockwool cubes.
I understand your talking aero etc but everything I read about rockwool is water it once a day or it just sogs up and rots the roots.
I suspect mixing aero and rockwool is a mistake ... or I could be full of shit.


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## HATCH (Oct 9, 2008)

DaveTheNewbie said:


> I wonder if your problem is related to too much water on the rockwool cubes.
> I understand your talking aero etc but everything I read about rockwool is water it once a day or it just sogs up and rots the roots.
> I suspect mixing aero and rockwool is a mistake ... or I could be full of shit.


 
Yes, Good Point The RW. Will Stay To Wet For Aero. & You Will Have Trouble Through-Out your Grow,,Mainly Root Rot, Maybe Not The Root's Hanging Down From The Basket, But In The RW. At The Base Of The Stem.

Hey Mdgcmd, The Reason That You Flush Is To Wash Away Any Salt Build Up Or Nut.-Lock,,I Would Use Just Tap-Water, & PH It To 6. To 6.3 PH, In That Range Seem's To Work Best For Aero.
Here Are Some Link's That Will Help You Out.:::

Grow Marijuana FAQ, Cannabis cultivation - marijuana growing tips & photos

Marijuana Growing Guide Free Library

Drugs-Forum - Cannabis cultivation: Overgrow's GrowFAQ

Marijuana Grower

Cannabis Nutrient and Deficiency Table

Read All That & It Will Help You Along The Way!!!~~~Best Of Luck~~Later~~Hatch~~


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## mdgcmd (Oct 9, 2008)

TY Hatch and you too Dave. The RW and water is a great consideration. I noticed that they were over watered but I never realized that it could have such an effect. I know that it is not definitely what the problem may have been, but that and the Cal-Mag is a great start. They are beyond repair now and have put another experience tally on the chalkboard. I will fire up some skunk#1 seeds that were free with the CC. I want to get this thing in line and learn what the hell I am doing again before I go and waste all my damn Cotton Candy seeds. Thanks a gain guys I really really appreciate all your great suggestions and help. I will post back with updates so if you are interested then come on back in a week when I get the Skunk#1 germinating.


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## JordanTheGreat (Oct 10, 2008)

another consideration, try letting them get a little bit stronger before transplanting them into such a high performance system perhaps...


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## mdgcmd (Oct 10, 2008)

Thanks again guys for all your help. As of right now I am optimistic that they will be ok. I drove to the local hydro shop (about 35minutes away) and bought a few things. I picked up some Cal-Mag and some 3" netpots. I am hoping that the Cal-Mag will help with the RO water, and the netpots w/ the hydroton pellets will keep the RW a bit dryier and less waterlogged. The RW was very much water logged and oversaturated. I hope all will be well. Thank you and have agood one. I will post back in a day or so with there progress.


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## mdgcmd (Oct 29, 2008)

Hello again guys it's update time. So the plants in the TAG did not do so well. Why... simply because the containers were not 100% lightproof like I thought. The UVA and UVB penetrated the containers and created issues. On top of that after very very careful and accurate calibration of the Tri-Meter I have learned that it is broke and needs to be sent in for RMA. On top of that the lack of CAL/Mag, in the nutrient solution from using the distilled water, left deficientcies in the plant. So here is what I did to correct all this.

I switched over to Ebb&Flow (just for right now). I did a fast switch in order to save what I had left of the plants. I did loose one but all is well right now and the plants are doing great. The reason that I switch to E&F was to get a production crop going and not waste time learned TAG right now. I need more room and a place of my own to grow in. A closet with limited space is no place to have a production grow and an experimental grow. When the girl and I buy ourselves a home I will fire up the TAG while having a full poduction E&F system. This will allow me to harvest smoke and perfect my TAG skills.


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## mdgcmd (Nov 11, 2008)

Here is an update of the girls (hopefully). They are 6 weeks from first set of leaves tomorrowm How are they looking??


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## JordanTheGreat (Nov 11, 2008)

i hope you are flowering...if not its gonna get super crowded in that cab really quick, that screen is pretty full already


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## mdgcmd (Nov 11, 2008)

I wasn't planning on flowering for a little while longer. The screen really isn't all that full it just looks like it in the pictures. Shouldn't you wait at least 8 weeks to flower if you start from seed, or is that just a myth? The plan was to flower starting the 26th but just now thinking about it I could just decease the daylight a bit each day until that time. I can't wait till flowering starts but I am being patient, I am also praying on my knees every night females.


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## JordanTheGreat (Nov 13, 2008)

well, with a screen you want to flower as soon as forty percent of the screen is covered with floiage. thats because when you flip them to twelve twelve, you still have to keep tucking them under the screen until budsites start producing flowers. if you flip the lights while the screen is forty percent full, it fills out the rest of the way with the initial stretch since you are tucking under until you see flowers, then prune everything underneath the screen and watch the fireworks


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## JordanTheGreat (Nov 13, 2008)

and with the lighting schedule, its not a good idea to change it too much. you should have one schedule for vegetation and another for flowering. light stress can cause herm'd out growth...


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## mdgcmd (Nov 14, 2008)

Roger that Jordan thanks a lot. Do you think that it is OK to flower at the age they are at? They are about 6 weeks old or so, maybe a little older. I was told not to flower until the 8th week, so that the plants can mature.


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## JordanTheGreat (Nov 14, 2008)

you should be good brother. i have heard differing arguments and from prior experience i would say that with the amount of space you have, there is no other option besides take a shit load of cuttings maybe...as far as the ptency of the final product, im pretty sure the age of the plant does not alter the chemical composition of cannboids. since you have a ceramic metal halide there is no need for additional UV lighting to spike thc production either so i would say you're alright as long as you keep an eye for crowding. overlapping leaves transpiring moiture onto each other creates a lot of wetness so pruning may be in order later on so everyone can breathe


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## mdgcmd (Nov 16, 2008)

I started flowering today. Sunday it the first full day after 12/12. I will update in a while with some updated pictures. For now I did prune them up a bit, and changed out the res. I cannot believe how much of an improvement pruning made. They can get some light now and air LOL.


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## holmes (Nov 17, 2008)

I quickly read the first page on this thread, but i did not find information on the pump you are using and the misters.
so can you please tell me where did you buy your pump and misters, and what micron size are they.
you might also know how to calculate how many misters can be placed on a pump, please inform me if you do.
good luck with your project


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## holmes (Nov 18, 2008)

i just remembered to ask about the timer, what timer are you using


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## mdgcmd (Nov 22, 2008)

Ok for a timer I am using an CAP ART DNE timer. It can be set from 1secong to 60minutes on and 1 minute, to like 8 hours off. 
The pump is a Shurflo Smart Sensor 5.7 smart pump. And the misters are found at dripworks at the bottom of the page. Follow the links I posted in the first page and you will get all the info you will need.

As fr an update one turned out to be male so I picked it out. The roots were a mess and tangled with the other plant. As you can imagine I have dead decaying root mass in my container now. I am using HG so I am hoping all will be well. Week 2 is starting tomorrow.


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## mdgcmd (Nov 29, 2008)

Week three starts tomorrow and I am still to lazy to get pictures LOL.


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## JordanTheGreat (Nov 29, 2008)

im on week four with fucking buds everywhere!!!


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## mdgcmd (Nov 30, 2008)

Well me just starting wk 3 today (Sunday), I have just a bunch white hairs. My tree is out of control with shoot everywhere. I have only one plant now and there must be at least 45 tops, and at least 20 that will be large fat nuggies. I promise I will post picture today while I am changing out the res. 

I change it out every two weeks and top off every couple of days. I have to modify the drainage as pellets keep clogging the drain holes.


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## mdgcmd (Dec 6, 2008)

Here are some pics as of today the 6th.

This thing is massive... one plant 12" tall with a 32" spread. You can all see that the tops are going crazy. What is really bad it that you can not even see all the shoot because of the 1x3" support board that goes from one side of the box to the other.


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## JordanTheGreat (Dec 7, 2008)

dont be startled if the stuff underneath the scree starts to turn ugly...just get rid of it...those tops are going to be great with that CMH you've got going. let them go full term and you will have a huge THC content. ceramic metal halides are supposed to give off a fair amount of UVB light


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## mdgcmd (Dec 7, 2008)

Yes they do so I have read, is that a good thing or a bad thing? I have a question for you as far as the foliage under the screen... how much can I trim? I am afraid to cut too much and stunt the plant. I am also afraid to cut any of the fan/sun leaves. I read that it does more damage than good. I try and tuck everything under and back but it is getting out of control in there LOL. I am hiding leaves three times a day just to keep the shoots in direct "sun" light. If I take some really good quality photos do you suppose you couls help me a little bit on trimming?

Oh and what does everyone think of this grow so far? I am very pleased with myself after my failed TAG experiment, not to mention I have not grown a thing not even a house plant in three years. Also I have not given up on TAG just postponed till I am better situated with more space.


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## JordanTheGreat (Dec 9, 2008)

dont get rid of everything underneath the screen at one time...but eventually you would want to get rid of pretty much everything under the screen. prune once a week and dont trim more than 15-20% of what needs to be pruned at one time


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## mdgcmd (Dec 14, 2008)

Week 5 starts today the 14th.


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## JordanTheGreat (Dec 15, 2008)

what ever happened to those good pictures...i suspect everything is going well?


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## mdgcmd (Dec 16, 2008)

Oh sorry yeah they are doing great ATM. I have been using Super Thrive in my res because the hydro shop guy says that he will never not using it again. He was probably just trying to sell me something and it worked LOL. I will go snap a few nice pics and post them here real fast.


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## mdgcmd (Dec 16, 2008)

Ok the long awaited pics, that I so long ago promised.


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## JordanTheGreat (Dec 17, 2008)

now that is a mighty good lookin screen of green you've got going there...congratulations!!!


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## mdgcmd (Dec 17, 2008)

Do you really think so I mean am I really doing good? Are they really doing good for the 5th week?


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## mdgcmd (Dec 20, 2008)

Ok I remember you said not to worry about the bottom of the screen getting ugly. Well did you mean that the leave will get yellowish brown and fall off? Today while inspecting for critters (none found) Like 20-30 leaves just started coming off the plant. The leaf stems were just so brittle at the part where they are attached to the plant (the node right??). So brittle in fact that they just fell right off with just a touch. I was thinking that this is what you were talking about, and it is caused from lack of light... is this correct?

Thanks a lot guys


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## JordanTheGreat (Dec 20, 2008)

yep, all the growth below the screen is struggling for light and air... they are growing soley on the energy produced by the plant. this is why getting rid of this sub par growth is useful in a screen...all of the energy that the canopy produces goes right back into making the canopy grow more. leaving it may increase your total yield but decrease the quantity of big, fat, super nugs that we all love so much...but the leaves that fall of readily down there should go anyway. if they are left on the plant once they have died, they can attract rot and disease and get your babies sick... i have been very anxious to get one of these going just for the hell of it. depending on your harvest it just might push me over the edge...


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## mdgcmd (Dec 21, 2008)

I am not sure what you mean by these, if you mean TAG well I stopped that a while ago and you may not have caught that part. Or if you mean E&F then TBH this particular one is nearly maintenance free. I check the PH and TDS in the morning when the lights come on and that is it. I ca set it for 5.5 and the next morning it will be about 5.8 - 5.9. The TDS needs to be adjusted every three days or so right now. I set it at 900PPM and after about three days the TDS will be about 950-1000. Those are still safe level as far as I am concernd but I still readjust it. Seriously nealr maintenece free.


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## JordanTheGreat (Dec 21, 2008)

actually i was talking about a screen


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## mdgcmd (Jan 2, 2009)

So here they are with about a week left till harvest. I have read the FAQs about picking and drying but I was wondering if anyone has any trade secrets that will help me dry. I want to make sure that I do not get any mold, or other nasties in my dryer. 
I am glad it is finally nearing an end, but I still have clones I need to continue to grow so it is far from over over lol.


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## CustomHydro (Jan 2, 2009)

If u did any research u will be fine drying. Just space the shit out well and keep the humidity low. Don't worry about the tips and the outer shell getting super dry, that will all even out in the jaring process. Just make sure u let them dry all the way out before jaring, I cant stress that enough! In the jars is where the mold can be a prob. If u have an ounce of bud wet, it's ready for a jar when it's about 7-9 grams. I wouldn't screen it, hang it. The buds look so much better hung up. I grow SOG so I have all bigger stalks, I put a tiny nail in the stem on an angle and hang it on a thin wire or string that is hung like a clothes line. U can also pull a lower bud away enough to slip the string thru there. I just like to keep my buds all together tight so if I have to I use a nail.

With that said, Damn good job bro! I have been following this for a long time and I saw all the troubles and it's nice to see hard work pay off. Good job + REP if I knew how to do it still, bottom line is Good Job!!


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## holmes (Jan 26, 2009)

hey man whats the story with your harvest

would you please tell me how much noise the pump you had running for the tag grow makes


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## mdgcmd (May 23, 2009)

I know I am WAY late but the total dry weight was 118g. I am hoping for 200g this time around and it is looking good.


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## hd deuce (May 3, 2016)

mdgcmd said:


> Will the tote that the roots are in is something like 22 gallons, I would say that I have about a foot from lid to bottom. And yes you are right about the roots suspending, and because of the way I designed the system there is not really any "runoff" it drains right back into the res, but I know what you meant. I read on one of the links I posted that one of the guys was getting 2 full CM of vertical every 12 hours. The roots on the other hand really should not get to big. They are supplied with everything that they need and do not need to go looking if you know what I mean.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


where can i buy that atomizer


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