# DIY Air Pruning Pot Experiment - Pictures



## Hobbes (Feb 15, 2010)

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I've been thinking a lot about developing a better root system, looking for bigger yields and perhaps better potency and quicker harvests. There are several commercial choices from porcipine like hard plastic wraps







to soft bags







or a chemical paint, like Spin-Out, for the inside of the pots.







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I need a rigid bucket for low stress training, and I have a couple dozen 5 gallon buckets that I'd like to convert. 

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1. Drill a 1/2" hole every 1" center. Drill a 1/4" hole between the 1/2" holes. I put pro mix in the bucket to make it more rigid and the drilling was much easier.

























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2. I lined the bucket with fiberglass screen to keep the Pro Mix from falling out of the holes.







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The plant goes into veg for 2 weeks under a 150W HPS, I'll train the plant a bit each day and in two or three days the two stems will be bent in semi circles. Then I'll train the branches to grow up and it's a nice scrog style grow.

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I'll follow this plant through flower to see if it performs better than usual, after I harvest I'll check the root system. And post pictures of both.

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## Hobbes (Feb 15, 2010)

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by Poppinfresh

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What is Root air pruning?


"An air-pruning propagation system is a low-cost, efficient method of propagating cuttings, seedlings or container plants for restoration projects. Air pruning happens naturally when roots are exposed to air in the absence of high humidity. The roots are effectively &#8220;burned&#8221; off, causing the plant to constantly produce new and healthy branching roots. If roots are not exposed to air, they continue to grow around the container in a constricted pattern. The roots may spiral, twist, kink or become strangled. When the plant is later installed it will likely fail to establish a normal root structure, and instead will have reduced uptake of water and nutrients. Eventually abnormal growth should be obvious and could cause the plant to fail. Damaged root systems also cause leaves to turn yellow or brown, shrivel or drop. Healthy, highly branched root structures allow a plant to more efficiently uptake water and nutrients while increasing growth and overall plant health." ( This information is not my own it was taken from Guidebook for Native Plant Propagation, Author: Julia Walker)






Advantages of air-pruning:

· promotes branched root systems

· encourages new roots to sprout

· prevents roots from spiraling

· prevents plants from becoming pot-bound

· plants may remain in pots, plugs or plant bands longer

*Examples of natural air pruning pots:*

*The Super Roots AirPot*.  Also a great video to watch How air pots work.




[

*RootMaker system:*





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Here is a great picture that shows the efficenty of this system. RootMaker also makes liners and indivdual pots. Check it out http://www.rootmaker.com/rootmakersystem.php

These are just a few examples. Once you get the concept of it you could easily and cheaply design a system on your own.

Now onto chemical root pruning. This thread off of RIU shows Mogie using Griffin's Spin-Out. If you read the thread and look at the pics the stuff really works. A word of caution on chemical root pruining. This study done by, Carl Whitcomb, Ph.D. titled "Improving Containers Copper is Not the Answer" 

"Improving Containers Copper is Not the Answer" questions whether or not copper spayed on the inside effects the plants growth. One big idea he proposed was "Mycorrhizal fungi that aid growth of most plants are also killed along with
other beneficial microorganisms" inside copper sprayed pots. This is disturbing considering how much the micro herd is needed to get full lush plants in organic soil growing. 


 This link:http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/50...BitchRoots.jpg shows roots growing in a TAG environment. TAG stands for True Aeroponic Growing. The branching on the root structure looks similar to what you are trying to archive with air pruning.

I am doing all this research because I will be doing a Hydroponic/Organic Soil showdown. I will atempt to grow one female specimine in an undecided hydro setup, and one in organic soil ( either foxfarms or my own mix). I will use the same genetics either from seed or from clones taken at the same time from the same mother plant.​By doing these test's I hope to put to rest the debate whether hydro or soil is better. Now when i say "better" I mean:



Better or equal yeild
Better flavor
More bag appeal
A more natural experience


To test the "Flavor" portion of the test will grow a second set of plants. These will be tomatoes. Everybody loves tomatoes, and i can get a unbiased response from friends and family. I will still have a flavor test for the meds, but the test subjects wont know whether they are smoking hydro or organic soil buds. Neither will the person who gives the test.

This all started when I saw this:





Granted much of its size can be attributed to its genetics. But the fact still remain it was grown in the soil with organic teas and fertilizer. 

The earth is 4.5 billion years old. With that much time for plants to evolve they are perfect. Plant life is estimated to be around 425 million years old. With 425 million years of evolution under their belts plants are perfectly adapted to their environment. To my knowledge all strains of Cannabis are found growing in soil and not water. Since after all those years wild Cannabis has chosen to grow in soil over water, soil must be the *BEST* place fo it to grow. I doubt whether 425 million years of evolution can be beat by NASA scientist and their hydroponic/aeroponics systems. Mabey those systems are best for growing in confinded spaces like the space station.  

Something else interesting. I know you have all seen movies and pictures depiction dinosaurs. Well did you every look at the plants? About 300 million years ago during the Triassic period the estimated Co2 concentration was around 2000-1800 ppm. With an average temp of 68F. Plants and trees were HUGE around this time. They had to be to feed the huge dinos that were herbivores. 68F and 1500 ppm co2 are almost the ideal ranges indoor growers look for. Take a look:






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## That 5hit (Feb 15, 2010)

WOW i like it 
how do you keep from getting water all over the floor
i thought about trying this with putting a lot of straws in the soil leading to the root zone
i see the park district kibda does this to young tress they plant around the city except they are only trying to get more 02 to the root system 
[youtube]Wc9UgBup7vg[/youtube][youtube]qTjNjDHTQi4[/youtube]

*check out the smart pot its made out of some type of fabric but does the samething*

[youtube]QEO9sv2t_gw[/youtube][youtube]rwsyJhMRww8[/youtube]




> 2. I lined the bucket with fiberglass screen to keep the Pro Mix from falling out of the holes.


idk
maybe this was all you needed and cut large square holes into the sides of the buckits
to hold up the fabric like a frame

im also thinking you should place a fan at buckit level pointed right at them holes


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## Hobbes (Feb 15, 2010)

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*"how do you keep from getting water all over the floor."*

I use large trays under each bucket, there are holes in the bottom already. I'm going to mold the top of the Pro Mix into a bowl and let most of the water be absorbed into the middle of the root ball, then outward by osmosis.  There will probably still be some leakage, I'll have to figure something out as I go. I left the bottom 2" of the bucket without holes.

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*"maybe this was all you needed and cut large square holes into the sides of the buckits"*

I'm thinking that too. I was worried about the bucket losing stregnth or mix falling out. The next bucket I'm going to use a 1" or 2" hole saw, go for more mix open to the air.

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What would the fan be for? To dry the mix or kill the root tip?

I'm concerned about the bucket drying out quicker from evaporation, I may have to cut my nutes to make up for evaporation.

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## That 5hit (Feb 15, 2010)

idk acording to the videos
its all about getting air to the roots i think more then having the roots prune themselfes
like with hydro
watch that 2cd or 3rd video


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## NickNasty (Feb 17, 2010)

That 5hit, If that were true then why would chemical pruning work? Im sure the air helps but the pruning also has something to with it.Anyways I was thinking about doing DIY air pots too and I have a couple ideas.
1. I was thinking about making Air Pot grow bags, Im sure you have all seen the grow bags you can get like 100 for 20$






Well the holes in the bottom are just made with a hole punch so I was thinking why not do that all the way up the bag? You can even fold it up and punch multiple holes at a time.

2. Have you seen this DIY version? It's just a Non slip mat that you put under things to keep them from slipping they just used zip ties to connect it together. And you can cut it to any size you want.
http://www.rvtoyoutlet.com/p-RV5400.html






I had some more ideas but I can't think of them right now but I will be sure to post when I remember.


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## cowboylogic (Feb 17, 2010)

I have tried the rubber mats, worked pretty well. Until..... About 11 weeks into the grow the bags began to breakdown and come apart. I think it was the lights breaking down the rubber, it became somewhat brittle. Just a guess, not actually sure, so I have not tried it since. Nice job Hobbs, will be interested on the outcome.


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## That 5hit (Feb 17, 2010)

yeah i think they may have started to biodegrade
thats the only problem with diy 
you take a chance with using something for a differant purpose then it intended origenal use 
the cloth that they are using in that video as to be made out of some type a non-degradable materal 
i thint the OP was close by using fiberglass


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## Jester88 (Feb 17, 2010)

subscribed....

theres a few things i want to chat about and that but just subscribing for now....


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## dirrtyd (Feb 17, 2010)

Subscribed liking this idea could use a #5 pot with the holes and a #7 to water in. I would love to try this on one plant this year outside. Can I get the screen at HD?


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## That 5hit (Feb 17, 2010)

my question is 
is the fiberglass safe
how much and how much (price and size) 
would it ever start to break down 
would it be reusable


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## That 5hit (Feb 17, 2010)

dirrtyd said:


> Subscribed liking this idea could use a #5 pot with the holes and a #7 to water in. I would love to try this on one plant this year outside. Can I get the screen at HD?


 what are #5 and #7 pots
are you talking gallons


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## NickNasty (Feb 17, 2010)

That 5hit said:


> my question is
> is the fiberglass safe
> how much and how much (price and size)
> would it ever start to break down
> would it be reusable


Fiberglass comes in many different types but its basically either exactly what it sounds like, glass pulled to a fiber like consistency Or glass reinforced plastic which is what I believe hobbes is using. The main safety issue with it is breathing it in but that shouldn't be a problem with the glass reinforced plastic type. I have no idea how long it would take to break down but I would think it would last a few grows.You could probably also just drill smaller holes and you wouldn't need the screen. I hope this answered some of your questions


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## That 5hit (Feb 17, 2010)

NickNasty said:


> Fiberglass comes in many different types but its basically either exactly what it sounds like, glass pulled to a fiber like consistency Or glass reinforced plastic which is what I believe hobbes is using. The main safety issue with it is breathing it in but that shouldn't be a problem with the glass reinforced plastic type. I have no idea how long it would take to break down but I would think it would last a few grows.You could probably also just drill smaller holes and you wouldn't need the screen. I hope this answered some of your questions


 if its cheap enuff , i would only need it to last 1 grow 
on those videos i see the guys rip the roots out and the bag dont look reusable but i could be wrong 
the pots do look reusable


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## cannasseur805 (Feb 18, 2010)

looks good cant wait to see results...


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## Don Gin and Ton (Feb 18, 2010)

subbed for the ride hobbes

ill post up my airpot comparison in this journo if thats kool with you !?


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## Jester88 (Feb 18, 2010)

no you go to hell.. you go to hell and you die (jester says in his best cartman mimmic voice) j.j

i think it would be rather cool to see the comparison


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## Don Gin and Ton (Feb 18, 2010)

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell karls moms a bitch she's the biggest bitch in the whole wide world


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## Hobbes (Feb 18, 2010)

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**The Roots*

*The magic chemistry of plant growth starts at the roots. Roots send nutrients (in exchange for sugar) up through  leaf stems to the leaves for final processing. They are also large storage sites for excess energy from the leaves, which is stored as starch. The roots and their capacity to store starch will decide how well a plant will grow and how much the plant will yield.

*​ *Root size: A research Rye plant in a 12-inch pot had 14 billion root hairs that, if placed end to end, would have stretched 6,200 miles (almost 10,000 kilometres). The root hairs alone would have covered a square area of 180 ft by 180 ft (about 55 m by 55 m)! The more extensive the root system, the better the plant will grow. This is because roots storing much energy are able to exchange lots of nutrients up to the leaves, and so the leaves can send down more sugar, etc. Thus, root growth is directly affected by moisture, oxygen, temperature, and sugars sent down from the leaves.

*​ *Root medium is important for plant growth. The less energy the roots use to absorb water and nutrients from their surrounding medium, the more they can use that energy to grow and to help send nutrients up to the plant. Most of a plant's water is taken in by the root hairs. 99% of the water taken in by a plant is transpired out through the leaves. A plant will fall over and wilt as a result of its roots not being able to extract any more water from the surroundings. (See Mediums for Growing)

*​ *Air roots: in a plant's natural life in the earth, its roots get moisture from rainfall. After rain, the soil water soon sinks down and the topsoil dries quickly. For this reason, the top 1/3 of plant roots are air specialized and the bottom 1/3 are water roots. One must be careful not to keep the air specialized roots constantly wet or the plant will drown. The bottom section of roots can be constantly wet provided that the water has oxygen in it. Stagnant water will soon kill the plant. The roots should always look crisp and white. If the roots develop brown tips or general browning, the problem is usually lack of oxygen, and infection will soon follow.*​ *
A plant can function quite well with its roots exposed to light as long as they do not dry out. However, the light encourages alga growth, which causes odors, and the alga competes with the plant for nutrients in the light period and oxygen in the dark period.

*​ *Oxygen is the most important root requirement because the roots need oxygen to convert sugar to energy. The more oxygen available to the roots, the more energy they can transfer to the plant.

*​ *Temperature also affects root growth and function. The roots do a great deal of their storage developing at night when the green sections of the plant are not being pressured by the light to produce and distribute the day's excess sugar to the roots. Roots function more efficiently when they are  warm, so roots in warm dark period develop better structures than those grown in cool dark period. As an illustration, a cycle of warm dark 77°F (25°C) and day 59°F (15°C) would develop better roots than a cycle of cool dark 59°F (15°C) and day 77°F (25°C). In essence, plants will grow better with a high average 24-hour root temperature that is constant rather than fluctuating.*​ *
Roots: the root hair zone is relatively small and starts just behind the growing root cap. This zone advances with the growing roots and as the new hairs near the tip emerge, the older hairs die I off. Here is where most water and nutrients are absorbed. So for fast growth, plant roots must not be allowed to become rootbound but be kept healthy and advancing at maximum throughout the entire life of the plant. When growing in pots that are too small, it is better to have the roots trim themselves by coating the inside of pots with a special copper paint rather than letting the roots circle and girdle themselves. In general, pots are not oxygen efficient for super plant growth. Remember that plant yield is proportional to root size.

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*​ *The Stems*

The stems serve as supply pipes between the roots and the leaves. 

*Shorter stems are better because the nutrients have less distance to travel between the roots and the leaves. This affects the whole plant since it does not have to lift the water too high, the plant conserves energy - that energy can then be used for extra yield.*

http://www.hydroempire.com/store/hydroponic-plant-parts.php

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## Hobbes (Feb 18, 2010)

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*1. Root Tips*





The growing tip of roots is protected by a root cap consisting of concentric layers of cells surrounding the apical meristem where new root cells are produced. The surface of the root cap of growing roots is often covered by a thick layer of mucilage (Rougier & Chaboud 1985).

When roots stop growing the root cap may be protected by suberisation of its outermost cells, as is shown below. These metacutinised root tips would generally not be produced by annual species such as crop plants, but are commonly produced by perennial plants such as trees (Romberger 1963, Brundrett & Kendrick 198.

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## Hobbes (Feb 18, 2010)

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There are eight options to force a root system to branch:


1) *Herbicide* -- One example has herbicide pellets sewn at intervals within a fabric. Root-tips that contact the herbicide die, causing branching to occur behind that point.


2) *Copper* -- Copper is painted on the inside of a plastic container. The copper is toxic to roots, so root pruning occurs. Misuse of copper can be toxic to humans and the ground, so extra care should be taken when using these products.


3) *Mechanical root pruning* -- Large trenching-type machines can chop roots of field-grown trees, which causes branching behind this cut. The trees are then dug, balled and burlapped. Some nurseries partially hand dig a few months before harvest to promote root branching. The open wounds of the cut, however, may allow pathogens to enter the plant.


4) *Root suffocation* -- Roots growing in containers with water reservoirs in the bottom are pruned when the roots hit the open water.


5) *Air-root pruning* -- Directing roots to air openings causes the root-tip to dehydrate and forces roots to branch behind this point.


6) *Root constriction* -- Roots can be forced to branch behind a point of constriction while trying to grow through a fabric.


7) *Root-tip-trapping* -- Roots can be forced to branch behind a point where the root-tip is snagged sufficiently enough to impede growth.


8. *Light* -- Some fabric containers root prune by a combination of light and air.

http://www.sportsturfonline.com/ME2/Audiences/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=94F330357D4648C3A605E2A323E83F9A&AudID=AC361F5928F54864BFCBBD93E5B8624D

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## Hobbes (Feb 18, 2010)

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_*Air-pruning* Containers _-- the key to growing trees best suited to urban spaces is to maintain most roots in a horizontal position with continued branching. This can be accomplished by allowing air to prune the roots as they first reach the bottom and later the sides of the growing container. The dead root-tips have effectively been cauterized and are unlikely to be colonized by pathogens. Young seedlings respond by developing fibrous absorbing roots laterally in the container. Effective air-root-pruning containers guide root-tips into the numerous openings without having openings so large that rapid evaporation and salt accumulation become an issue. Repeated pruning on the bottom, as well as the container sides, helps the tree develop a vigorous and efficient root system.


_*Root-tip trapping* - _involves fabric containers. Root pruning is accomplished as the root-tips contact the fuzzy inside fabric and can no longer extend. The trapped root-tip will typically stop elongating, become pudgy, and then lose hormonal control over root development, resulting in secondary branch roots. The advantage of this root-pruning technique is that the roots do not circle, no water is lost through the container sidewall, and roots are fully contained -- even when the container is in the ground or snugly inside another container. When used above ground, the insulating value of such fabrics reduces root zone temperatures by about 20 degrees Fahrenheit. This allows root growth on the side of the container exposed to sun, and avoids the problems that arise when roots are killed by absorbed heat. 

_*Root girdling or constriction pruning* - _is effectively accomplished in field soil where roots are allowed to grow through a fabric container wall. Young root-tips extend freely through the fabric, but as soon as they increase in diameter ever so slightly they become girdled. Because the roots are young and actively growing, secondary root branching occurs in a similar manner to air-root pruning or root-tip trapping. In other words, the choking causes the root to lose its apical dominance and lateral branching or pruning occurs inside the bag. In the ground the roots function outside the container wall and absorb water and nutrients which are transferred to the leaves via the central xylem tissues. However, the constriction prevents the downward movement of sugars from the leaves from going beyond the inside wall of the fabric. This accumulation of sugars causes nodules to form that have many root buds. When the tree is harvested and the fabric removed, robust root growth appears from the nodules. 

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I'm going to research trapping and constricting, seems easier to convert pots. And no holes in pots. I'm thinking of some kind of Brillo Pad like liner for buckets.

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**edit: It didn't take long to find.


*RootTrapper® Pot-in-Pot Insert.*



*Now available to custom fit your socket pot. Major root escape is no longer a problem plus a fibrous root system is created by root-tip-trapping. At harvest, roots are insulated from temperature extremes.*


http://www.rootmaker.com/system_aboveground.php#jump

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Does anyone have experience with trimming the root ball? Will new root tips form on the old roots or with they branch and new tips from the branches? If we can get branching we can just pop the root ball and score it.

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## Hobbes (Feb 18, 2010)

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Does anyone have an opinion on a good root trapping fabric until we can order proffesional liners, if we ever do? I was thinking a couple layers of Landscape fabric.

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*Landscape fabric* is a synthetic material that may be either woven or perforated throughout with tiny holes. Its main function is to block sunlight from reaching weed seeds and young sprouts to prevent them from germinating and growing while still allowing air and water to penetrate through it into the soil. Landscape fabric can be used around new or existing landscape plantings. It can also be an effective means of controlling erosion.







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## Hobbes (Feb 18, 2010)

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I transplanted and repotted a half dozen plants tonight, using 3 different techniques to promote root branching.

1. Air Pruning







I drilled 1 1/2" and 1/4" holes in this 5 gallon bucket then lined it with 5 layers of fiberglass screen. I'm hoping the 5 layers of screen keep more moisture in and work for both constriction and trapping.

Thanks to OneEyedWilly I just put my air pruning bucket inside another bucket when I want to keep more moisture in. This plant is a Strawberry Cough.







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2. Root Trapping

I picked up two types of landscaping fabric, one that is a thin sheet with tiny holes (constriction) and the second a thicker woven mat (trapping). This first one is the thicker woven fabric, much easier to work with because it hold it's shape. This one has my best hopes for a liner for our existing buckets. The fabric is tightly woven on one side and loser on the other - loose side on the pro mix / roots side to give the roots a path in, tight side toward the bucket to stop circling the bucket behind the fabric.

I repotted a Bubblegum clone in this picture. I roughed up the root ball a bit, tearing out the circling roots.













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3. Root Constriction

This fabric is very thin and slick with tiny holes. I'm hoping that the roots go through the holes and the constriction forces branching behind the constriction. I have concerns about this fabric because the holes might be too small for the root tips to go through. And it's pushed up against the bucket wall, the roots will have to go in the hole to circle the bucket - if there were pro mix behind the fabric it would make the roots going through easier.

This is my only Jack The Ripper pheno, I don't think I'll keep it so I don't mind beating it up a bit. I had a runt from a double shoot seed that made the whole grow room smell of lemons, this one just has a mild lemon smell. I'll have to see how the high is in another 2-3 weeks when it's cured properly.







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I'll give the plants 2 or 3 weeks then pull the root balls and take a look. 

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## That 5hit (Feb 18, 2010)

Prices .


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## Hobbes (Feb 18, 2010)

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3' x 50' roll of each: 

Black constriction fabric: $4.99

Gray root tip trapping fabric: $24.99

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http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/2/OutdoorLiving/GardenAccessories/GrassCollectionLandscapeFabrics/PRD~0591726P/Platinum%252B400%252BWeed%252BBarrier.jsp

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/2/OutdoorLiving/GardenAccessories/GrassCollectionLandscapeFabrics/PRDOVR~0591891P/Landscape%2BFabric.jsp

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## Don Gin and Ton (Feb 19, 2010)

like the new bigger holes pot but i think you'll find the roots will grow round like if the pot didnt have holes. cant wait to see the results of all of these


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## Hobbes (Feb 19, 2010)

Don Gin and Ton said:


> subbed for the ride hobbes
> 
> ill post up my airpot comparison in this journo if thats kool with you !?


Absolutely. Post all the pics and info you can, everyone else is welcome too as well.

Open thread on developing root systems.

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*"like the new bigger holes pot but i think you'll find the roots will grow round like if the pot didnt have holes."*

5 layers (6 with overlap) of fiberglass screen makes a pretty solid barrier, I think there will be little evaporation as well. I might get lucky and get some root constriction or tip trapping, but the screen is fairly smooth. Landscaping fabric would be a better choice for an air pruning bucket I think.

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## Don Gin and Ton (Feb 19, 2010)

i really dont think youll have any problem with evapouration at all. my side by side with a normal pot has been on par with its water requirement to the airpot one. might be different with the flat sides but i doubt it. 

the solid barrier is what makes m think the roots will go round like a normal pot the trumpets on the shop bought airpot force the roots straight out but if it goes out and hits a smooth round the pot screen it will inevitably go round!? well thats my thinking but i hope to be proved wrong.


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## Hobbes (Feb 19, 2010)

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*"the solid barrier is what makes m think the roots will go round like a normal pot the trumpets on the shop bought airpot force the roots straight out but if it goes out and hits a smooth round the pot screen it will inevitably go round!?**well thats my thinking but i hope to be proved wrong"*

I think you'll be right. The threads in the screen seem waterproof and they're overlapped and pressed to the bucket wall by the pro mix.

In a couple of weeks I'll pop the root ball, if I've got circling I'll switch the fiberglass screen with the woven landscaping fabric.

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## That 5hit (Feb 19, 2010)

Hobbes said:


> .
> 
> *"the solid barrier is what makes m think the roots will go round like a normal pot the trumpets on the shop bought airpot force the roots straight out but if it goes out and hits a smooth round the pot screen it will inevitably go round!?**well thats my thinking but i hope to be proved wrong"*
> 
> ...


i was also thinking this
maybe less layers would work better
like a 2 layer
i'm thinking in order for this to work the dirt ,roots and fabric has to breath 
the trumpet shaped hole of the store kind allows the roots and dirt to breath freely- unlike the cloth kind that is pressed againest the soil- so if the coth used is thinner the roots will hit the air given a more same effect like the trumpet kind - so use the buckits with the holes init then use 1 or 2 layers of Landscape fabric to keep the soil from falling threw the holes


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## norcalikilla (Feb 19, 2010)

i have got to say this is probably the sickest thread on here. getting down to the science of why some ppl get lucky with huge buds while being inexperienced growers by mistakingly taking better care of roots is genius. now we can make it possible for all to know how to take care of their plants correctly and move the connosoir community forward!

ok enough rambling. but really thanks again for posting this experiment! you could've done this at home and not said anything so when i say thanks please know that i mean it sencerely. i did have an idea for you if after a few days/weeks you get root circling. try taking a metal skewer or possibly wood and pokeing 3 holes in each of the 1.5" holes about 45 mins after watering. what this will do (in theory) is create the tunnels that the store-bought-wrap will have so that when the roots just happen to hit the tunnel, it follows it toward the air for prunning. 

you can see that the reason the roots dont circle in the store bought wrap is because they CANT. once they reach a tunnel, they have no imput in the direction they grow in. forward is their only option. thats where i grabbed 45 minutes from. the water will make the soil soft enough to penetrate easily (as you will have to do this many times haha) but after the water flows down and the dirt drys out it will semi-harden to the shape made by the skewer. 

i hope this is a contribution and if not dont be afraid to criticize. i like criticism because it helps me see things another way and negativity doesnt bother me much


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## Hobbes (Feb 19, 2010)

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*"i did have an idea for you if after a few days/weeks you get root circling. try taking a metal skewer or possibly wood and pokeing 3 holes in each of the 1.5" holes about 45 mins after watering. what this will do (in theory) is create the tunnels that the store-bought-wrap will have so that when the roots just happen to hit the tunnel, it follows it toward the air for prunning."*

That is insightful.

I was thinking: "poke a hole in my screen!!! AAAAHHHH ..... wait a minute ... a path for the root tips to follow to their death!!"

Huge KUDOs norcalikilla! 

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## norcalikilla (Feb 19, 2010)

i think the kudos are due to you as well. thanks for the experiment. i cant wait to see how this all turns out and hope that you blow that expensive plastic wrap right out of the water!

nck


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## That 5hit (Feb 19, 2010)

norcalikilla said:


> i think the kudos are due to you as well. thanks for the experiment. i cant wait to see how this all turns out and hope that you blow that expensive plastic wrap right out of the water!
> 
> nck


yeah gr8 info and welcome RIU
you get my +rep


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## Airwave (Feb 19, 2010)

I've been using Airpots next to regular pots for my entire grow. My plants are due to be harvested any-time now and I see no difference.
Also, watering those Airpots can get a bit messy.


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## That 5hit (Feb 19, 2010)

Airwave said:


> I've been using Airpots next to regular pots for my entire grow. My plants are due to be harvested any-time now and I see no difference.
> Also, watering those Airpots can get a bit messy.


 i dont think the point is to see a defferance more or less
but a healthyer life 
not really meaning bigger better buds but trying to incress the liky hood of a plant staying healthy threw out the grow and not feeling the effects of rootbound and other root issue


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## Hobbes (Feb 19, 2010)

.

I'm repotting all of my younger plants that are in flower and 1 five gallon bucket in veg, lining the buckets with root trapping woven landscaping fabric. This one is a Skunkberry from Peak.







.

I popped the root ball and it was solid.







.

Some circling on the bottom.



















.

I skuffed up the root ball to stop the circling. I attached the bucket rim and the fabric with masking tape, to keep the liner in place while repotting.













.

I'm keen on seeing how this landscaping fabric works for root trapping, it could make life real simple for us.

.


.


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## That 5hit (Feb 19, 2010)

i really hate that you can only +rep a person once


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## norcalikilla (Feb 19, 2010)

speaking of which i thank you sir. i dont really know wat that is or how to do it but i think its a good thing. 

hey hobbs do you water roughly 8hrs to 24 hrs before you transplant to prevent shock? since i always do i dont know wether or not you need to. i kind of air on the side of caution when it comes to this kind of thing and i feel like stress would be a good thing... however shock is not. i guess im just in search of the line between positive punishment and harassment hahaha


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## norcalikilla (Feb 19, 2010)

haha in all seriousness tho hobbes your plants look really healthy and although there is circling i can tell you dont poison your roots from over-nuteing. excellent way to flex nuts!


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## Hobbes (Feb 20, 2010)

.

How Root Constriction creates branching behind the restriction. 

.

*How the Superoots Fielder works*

Root tips penetrate the geotextile wall and base, unimpeded, and grow out into the surrounding soil. The fabric allows the root to expand until it reaches a diameter of 3mm, when the fabric stops giving and the root is successfully restricted. 







Perfect restriction of a Fraxinus root - showing the large nodule, secondary branching behind the restriction, the point of restriction and the smaller external root.

http://www.superoots.com/fielder_work.htm


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## NickNasty (Feb 23, 2010)

I was looking around on the net and found a thread of a lady who was making DIY Air Pots out that thicker landscaping fabric you have she was just sewing it into a bag shape and using that she said she had be using them for awhile and they were doing exactly what they were supposed to do. So if people have the landscape fabric and a sewing machine they could just do that.You could sew in handles if you wanted. I wish I had bookmarked the thread cause I can't seem to find it now. I also was thinking of other stuff you could line like the 5 gallon buckets you were using and thought milk crates might work out well.


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## Hobbes (Feb 23, 2010)

.

Good research Nick.

The milk crate would work great, if we wanted a taller pot we could stack the crates and cut the bottom out of one.

Did the women making air pruning bags from landscaping fabric mention if she ever used them as liners? I'm wondering if they'll have the same effect pressed between the pro mix and the side of the bucket. I would think so, roots can get in cracks in concrete, woven fiberglass should be no problem.

Great ideas!

.


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## Hobbes (Feb 23, 2010)

norcalikilla said:


> hobbs do you water roughly 8hrs to 24 hrs before you transplant to prevent shock?


Hey norcalikilla

I let the root ball dry up a bit and pull away from the sides of the bucket - easier to remove and tighter so not as likely to fall apart. I transplant 3 times during veg and use the same method, I haven't found any stress from transplant, just slowed growth for a week or so, which could be called a reaction to stress so I guess I have seen some signs of stress.

One of the theories of transplanting a dry root ball into moist medium is to attract the roots to the moist soil quickly. Speeds new root growth. I like to soak the the bucket a week or two after transplant.

Sorry for taking to long to answer, I lost track of the question.

.


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## norcalikilla (Feb 23, 2010)

no worries bro thanks for the reply. that is extremely informative you have no idea. i think what may have been happening is because i was transplanting wet, the roots mistakenly grew out because they thought the we soil was new soil. now that you have explained it to me i think i will transplant a little dryer but def into really moist soil (i use coco but same idea). right now were currently waiting for a dry day to finish digging out under a house, were re-supporting the foundation and were going to make a flower and veg room. i cant wait but i was wondering if u had any thoughts on sealing it off and cleaning it up so that we would be able to have a disease and mold free enviro to grow successfully in.
(i have my ideas but ill share them with you after so as not to influence)

thanks again! nck


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## Don Gin and Ton (Feb 26, 2010)

sorry i was a bit late with the pics but heres the first plants root ball from the airpot









inside was just solid dense root 










pics of the airpot vs normal will be up on sun/mon


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## Hobbes (Feb 27, 2010)

.

Looking good Don! They look solid, like the roots will hold the ball together.

.

*11 days since transplanted from a 6" pot to a 5 gallon air pruning bucket.*


I removed my cover buckets from the buckets I drilled the holes in and lined with fiberglass window screen. Pleasant surprise.







The roots are growing from most of the holes, I'm going to leave the covers off for the afternoon and see how the root tips do open to the air and light. Later I'll put the cover buckets back on and water, leaving the buckets on for 2 or 3 days to get more root tips to grow out of the screen.



















.

The 1 1/2" hole bucket with 5 layers of fiberglass screen. Apparently if the roots want out they don't care how many layers of screen we have.













.


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## That 5hit (Feb 27, 2010)

would it be wise or even OK to cut away the root as they pop threw the sides
(yes i know that will just fall off anyways)
just want to know for something to do in grow room


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## norcalikilla (Feb 27, 2010)

holy sh*t! those airpot roots look amazing! i cant wait to see the comparison!

great job hobbes. what type of soil are u using again?


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## Hobbes (Feb 28, 2010)

.

 "*holy sh*t! those airpot roots look amazing! i cant wait to see the comparison!"*

Those Air Pots are really ingenious, all the roots directed to the small dry cones while the rest of the outside stays relatively moist. Really impressive. 

I'm hoping to get some really thick lateral roots that are as thick as a normal seminal root, with root branching from those. I've seen a pic (haven't been able to find it again yet to post) where the side roots looked like straight branches from a white tree. It could have just been the type of plant as well, marijuana may not ever root like that.

* "what type of soil are u using again?"

*Pro Mix.

.

*"would it be wise or even OK to cut away the root as they pop threw the sides"*

T5 when I remove the cover bucket next time (Tuesday or Wednesday) I should have some massive long roots. I'll pick a section and clip all of the roots to see what happens. I suspect that after clipping they'll continue to dry and shrivel back to the same point as the roots left to dry.

.


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## norcalikilla (Mar 7, 2010)

man i really hope this thread didnt die!!!!! come back hobbes!


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## Hobbes (Mar 7, 2010)

.

Hey norcalikilla!

The thread is alive and kicking, the buckets working great. 

The first bucket with the small holes and single layer screen is amazing, multiple roots out of all of the lower holes and some upper. Most roots outside the bucket were thick when I took off the cover bucket, thicker than any I've had from other plants. I've had the cover bucket off for a week and the roots are drying up and dying outside the bucket, which should cause a build up of sugars inside the roots and branching off those lateral roots. I'll put the cover bucket back on to water in a week and leave it on for a few days to get more roots growing out of the bucket, then start the cycle again.

The larger holed bucket with 5 layers of screen isn't getting as many roots through the screen but the ones that get through are thick. I'm expecting a lot of root trapping and some spiraling. When the root ball dries up this week I'm going to pop it from the bucket, peal off the screen and line the bucket with landscaping fiberglass. I'll post some pictures so everyone can see the thicker root ends with trapping and air prunning.

The landscaping buckets I believe are working well but I did get a touch of spiraling in a Jack The Ripper I popped from a 6 inch pot. Along with the spiraling there was a fair bit of trapping though, so I still have a lot of hope for this method - no holes in the buckets is a good thing me thinks, but my hole/screen buckets are no more trouble to water/tend than my regular buckets. I have 17 x 5 gallon buckets lined with fabric and screen, another being lined tonight, and I'm repoting all of my 6" pots with fabric.

This experiment has show amazing results quickly, I'm encouraged by the way things are progressing so far.

.


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## norcalikilla (Mar 7, 2010)

so glad to see this thread still has a pulse. you have no idea 

also thankful for such a detail oriented experimentor. im a little suprised by the results however. never woulda expected trapping in the larger holed buckets. however there may still hope. anyways ill be back every couples days depending on the living situation. thanks for the post!

and remember hobbes, one goal, one heart. lets get together and feel alright. one love


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## AquafinaOrbit (Mar 7, 2010)

/\Yeah. I'm not chiming in much but been following this thread for awhile so good to know its still going. Hope those pics get up soon.


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## Solcyn26 (Mar 8, 2010)

im here for the long haul rooting for u if u excuse the pun


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## Solcyn26 (Mar 8, 2010)

ps im pulling for the small holes and window screen grow as i currently have both a drill and window screens...lol


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## Hobbes (Mar 15, 2010)

.

I popped the root ball for the two pots with holes and screens, they had dried almost completely and shrunk.

The 1 1/2" hole bucket with 5 layers of screen. I didn't put anything on the bottom of these two buckets, when I repotted I put a fabric base for root trapping.







After peeling off 4 layers of screen there were still healthy roots trapped. 







No spiraling on this one.







.

The single screen bucket, spiraling on the bottom. I put fabric down.







This root ball felt really solid, like I could bounce it and it would stay together. There were healthy roots under the bucket.







A lot more roots than the 5 layer screened bucket.













.

The single screen bucket is producing a much more solid root ball than the 5 screen bucket. Very simple and works. To water I set the hole bucket in a regular bucket and soak. After 3 or 4 days I take the cover bucket off and there will be new roots growing from the holes, let the tips dry and die and they remaining root will thicken and branch.

.

The fabric buckets should be dry in a week or so, I'll pop the root ball for a couple and see how the root trapping is going. Looking forward to that but we might not see the results until we shake the root ball out after harvest. They feel more solid, the roots seem thicker, very promising results so far. Now we see if we get more yield, faster harvest, more potency, stronger taste, etc. The important things.

.


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## SeanIzen (Mar 15, 2010)

I'm willing to bet a 5gal paint strainer would be the ticket as they are made to not bio degrage, come in a cylindrical shape and can be purchased in the size bucket you are drilling holes in.. Fine mesh too but I think the reason why the one with more cloth layers is doing better with spiraling is because there is more of a "cushion" or buffer zone for oxygen and support for the roots.. Either way sherwin williams will have them and they sell them in boxes of 25-100 fairly cheap


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## Don Gin and Ton (Mar 16, 2010)

looks almost there but you can see if it had gone much longer it would have grown roots round the base. i truly think its the fluted peaks that do the air pruning not round holes.


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## Hobbes (Mar 16, 2010)

.



Don Gin and Ton said:


> looks almost there but you can see if it had gone much longer it would have grown roots round the base. i truly think its the fluted peaks that do the air pruning not round holes.









.

Don the base is covered in roots because there was nothing on the base to stop spiraling. No screen, no fabric, no dry spots. These were my first two buckets, I hadn't thought about the base. As you can see on the sides of the first bucket (below) there is no spiraling even though there is on the bottom of the root ball (above).








I have landscaping fabric down on all the bases now (18 buckets), if that doesn't work I'll drill more holes in the bottom of the buckets and drown the roots in the tray below the bucket.

.

The small holed single screen bucket shows some root growth on the outside of the ball (below) until the root hits a dry spot, but I watched hundreds of root tips grow out of the holes, dry up, and die. Normally a root ball of this age would be covered in spiraled roots.

There's no question that this bucket is doing amazing air pruning.














I've torn the bottom spiraling roots off both plants before putting down fabric.

.


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## Don Gin and Ton (Mar 16, 2010)

break that mother open hobbes i want to see the root growth inside!


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## Hobbes (Mar 16, 2010)

.

I'm hoping it looks like this:







.

I'd like to get something to direct the roots to the holes, like with the cones in commercial air pruning buckets. The 1 1/2" holes might stop the need for that, I'll know in a week when I take the cover bucket off and see if I've got any root growth through the landscaping fabric I used to replaced the 5 layers of fiberglass window screen.

.


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## Don Gin and Ton (Mar 16, 2010)

yeah thats the ticket hahaha looking at the few that have poked out id wager thats pretty much how it will look.

complete with starship enterprise


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## Hobbes (Mar 23, 2010)

.

I ordered a few Smart Pots and Root Pots, the Root Pots look surprisingly like they were made from thick landscaping fabric. I'm going to compare them to our DIY pots.







.

I took the cover bucket off of the Super Silver Haze (1/2" holes and 1 layer of window screen) - incredibly thick roots are starting to grow out of the holes again. Only about a quarter of the holes had roots growing out so I put the cover bucket back on and will let the roots continue to grow. I'll check again this weekend and post a picture.

If the other buckets are working like this one it's going to be impressive. I'm harvesting a Northern Lights and a Flo in the next week, I'll shake out the root balls to see how the root system grew. They've only had landscaping fabric for root trapping since we started using landscaping fabric (Feb 18 ) so the root system isn't going to be as developed as the younger plants that were transplanted from 6" pots into 5 gallon pruning and trapping buckets.

.


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## AquafinaOrbit (Mar 24, 2010)

Looking really good man. Be interesting to see the upcoming showdown. Will they be both be growing clones?


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## Hobbes (Mar 24, 2010)

.

Yes both clones AquafinaOrbit. I'll pick something short flowering like Flo or a new Dr Greenthumb strain I'm test growing called "The Dope". Doc won't tell me anything about The Dope's effects, want's an unbiased review.

*Dr Greenthumb: "I think it is our best indoor plant yet. Very,very potent, excellent yield, readily cloned, even growth, 55-65 days. The rest I'll leave up to you."*

It's not released yet.

http://www.drgreenthumb.com/cannabis_seeds_GreenthumbSeedsEntrance.htm

.

I'm almost done the design phase for an LED adapter to make LEDs into actual flowering lights, all my energy is going into that for the next month or so. But I will keep using root developing pots and posting pics.

.


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## PANGcake (Mar 24, 2010)

Hi Hobbes!

Nice experiment, I love doing experiment grows 

I saw how your pot works and how the roots didn't get pruned at the bottom. I never tried to air prune but it seems interesting and I have a suggestion for the "problem" w roots at the bottom. In all my pots I put a 1 inch layer of "clay marbles" (iono what u call it in English, over here its called "leca") in the bottom for drainage, this you've probably heard of before, but what I've noticed is that the roots get air pruned when they reach the "leca" and the roots going around the bottom comes form the sides...so I thought together w your air prune pot it might work since you got it pruned from the "side". Hmm..i'm a bit baked, was that understandable? 
Have I allready replied to thsi thread?

//CaL


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## (Butters) (Apr 6, 2010)

scribed to see results. good luck with this.


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## MatanuskaValley (Apr 6, 2010)

I had not seen this and I totally just added something similar on my DIY thread. I am sorry I am going to go through and delete it right now.


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## Hobbes (Apr 7, 2010)

.

Don't delete anything, the more often a similar idea gets posted the more chance someone who needs it will find it. Besides, you came about it on your own and you'll no doubt have ideas we haven't thought about. Could you post a link to your DIY thread please and thank you. 

The pots are working well, the 1 1/2" hole pot is now lined with landscaping fabric and I've seen some tiny roots poking through - root constriction. So the fabric is going to work for trapping/constriction in pots with no holes in the sides.

The 1/2" hole bucket with window screen is working great, some holes have a half dozen roots poking out and some of the roots are very thick. I've been finding that it's best to leave the cover bucket on until a few days before the pot needs re-watering, then the root tips dry up and I rub them off with my hand before putting the cover bucket on and re-watering. All of my buckets seem to have a better developed root system than I've had before. 

I harvested a Northern Lights that had landscaping fabric in the bucket for about 4 weeks, I've been letting it dry out a bit then I'll pop the root ball and see how the landscaping fabric did for trapping. I'll post pics.

.


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## Don Gin and Ton (Apr 7, 2010)

agreed keep the stuff in the thread and post a link.

keep on truckin hobbes.


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## MatanuskaValley (Apr 7, 2010)

Don Gin and Ton said:


> agreed keep the stuff in the thread and post a link.
> 
> keep on truckin hobbes.


https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/308311-homemade-diy-show-off-your.html

Thanks guys here is that link. I actually did it quite different on the second one I deleted already haha. I ran pvc pipes through my soil with holes drilled through them.

I just read through your thread and see you are doing a much more advanced air pruning method. Glad I checked this out we can learn from each other on this one.

I am looking to promote a few things it looks like you are trying to avoid should be good


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## Hobbes (Apr 7, 2010)

.

*"I ran pvc pipes through my soil with holes drilled through them."

*That's an interesting idea .... we could cap the pipes until they're full of roots then use something to cut the root tips off (shove a smaller pipe inside or a stick).

What else could we do with a pipe in the bucket? Water the bottom of the bucket only? Deliver nutes/water to different levels ... Some type of hydro-drip system down the perforated pipe wall?

.


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## Don Gin and Ton (Apr 7, 2010)

interesting take on it putting the pipe through.

hobbes im imagining some kind of half soil half dwc thing with pipes of root coming out the sides. not quite air pruning eh hahah not sure where my brain was going with that one.


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## Hobbes (Apr 7, 2010)

.

One other thing - the cover bucket system (over a bucket with holes) seems much easier to water than the porcupine pots and the side soil doesn't dry out until we want it to.

If the Landscaping Fabric buckets work (I believe they will) they will be the simplest, easiest and cleanest.

.


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## Hobbes (Apr 7, 2010)

.

*"im imagining some kind of half soil half dwc thing with pipes of root coming out the side."*

Maybe a reservoir of water at the bottom of a sealed pipe, so roots can grow in the holes and down into the water. And an air stone if a person wants to go all out.

I like it!

.


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## norcalikilla (Apr 7, 2010)

hobbes! everything is going amazing! i cant wait to see the pics! im havin some trouble following what your saying is working the best, is that the cover bucket with the large and small holes and the fiberglass liner?


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## Hobbes (Apr 7, 2010)

.

Yes. The cover bucket set is just one bucket with side holes (holds the plant) and a second bucket with no side holes to set the first in when we water or want new root tips to grow out of the holes. When we want the root tips to dry and die we take the hole bucket (holds plant) out of the cover bucket. 

I'm not sure which style works best, all seem to produce a spongy root ball, the hole buckets are just more visibly noticeable until I pop the root balls out of the landscaping fabric buckets.

.


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## norcalikilla (Apr 7, 2010)

awesome! thanks bro! when you say spongy, does that have any inference of mold or do we want spongy rootballs? also if i was going to start a diy pot tmrw, which im not, what type of screen would you recomend that you think is working the best? thanks man, really this is an awesome thread!

ps do u have any grow journals i could peep or is that not an option for you?


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## Hobbes (Apr 7, 2010)

.

*"when you say spongy, does that have any inference of mold or do we want spongy rootballs?"*

No, not moldy. Spongy like it compresses a bit when pushed down with a hand, then regains it's shape. Not a solid ball of Pro Mix. Like there are a lot of roots.
*
"also if i was going to start a diy pot tmrw, which im not, what type of screen would you recomend that you think is working the best?"*

If you use a cover bucket you can't go wrong with window insect screen - simple and cheap. Assuming nothing leaches out of the fiberglass and gives us cancer, but I've found nothing that would indicate that. The Landscaping fabric I THINK is working great but won't know until I cut the root balls open. I've checked one then replanted it but it was difficult to tell without cutting open the root ball - we can see the roots growing out of the hole bucket and it's cool, fun and encouraging.

I would go with a hole bucket if you have a duplicate bucket for a cover, just because of the visual encouragement. I think the landscape fabric buckets are going to work just, or almost, as good but do not have the visual rewards.

.

*"ps do u have any grow journals i could peep or is that not an option for you?"*

A pic thread:

https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/211186-pics-my-garden-ssd-km.html

.

This one is fun:

https://www.rollitup.org/cooking-cannabis/125137-alcohol-tincture.html

.

https://www.rollitup.org/cooking-cannabis/272993-diy-make-your-own-press.html

https://www.rollitup.org/cooking-cannabis/278166-refine-your-cannabuter-better-taste.html

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/303229-diy-air-pruning-pot-experiment.htmlhttps://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/182247-feminized-seeds-hermie-test-14-a.html

https://www.rollitup.org/smoke-reports/244210-kali-mist-serious-seeds.html

https://www.rollitup.org/smoke-reports/220871-bubblegum-serious-seeds.html

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/295710-root-clone-test-pictures.html

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/314209-single-cutting-cloners.html

https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/245812-easy-seed-germination-simple-fast.html

https://www.rollitup.org/cooking-cannabis/300312-bhoe-comparrison-honey-bee-vs.html

.


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## Hobbes (Apr 12, 2010)

.

I took the cover bucket off the 1/2" hole bucket to rub off any root tips before watering, most had dried and died. The roots still inside the holes are thick and some woody, 7 or 8 weeks of flower left.







.


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## McFonz (Apr 13, 2010)

I was thinking about that subject for a while now and as I'm a cheap lazzy bastard and aim for a micro grow why don't I just use an old sock with compost?
Compost should help retaining water, a sock is cheap and the roots should poke through it easily.
A sock doesn't hold its shape all that well, but nothing that a spiraled steel wire wouldn't solve.

Should take roughly 5 minutes and I don't see a reason for it to fail.

For a larger scale you could use a fat men sized training pants sleeve.
It should hold quite a bit of medium, you could cut it to size realy easily and it should be readily available.
Most of us complain about pots being too wide, that could fix that issue as well.

Indoor, where high winds aren't an issue, the con of it easily falling off should be an issue. Specially in a SCROG or SOG.
If it is an issue, a frame could be built from a steel wire. A heavy gauge steel wire is pretty tough.

What do you think?


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## That 5hit (Apr 13, 2010)

the sock if made of cotton or if it has any level of degradeabe fiber in it will sooner or later fall apart -- 2 weeks tops
it may even mold

fail .......at the worst time

maybe try it with a nylan stoking "panty hose"


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## Murfy (Apr 13, 2010)

i am using el cheapo laundry baskets i got at the local thrift store for 1.29 with landscape fabric inside
no cover bucket


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## sensisensai (Apr 13, 2010)

Awesome idea. I had done a lot of playing around with this same subject then those eco bags came out. U know those re-usable grocery bags? They cost 1/3 the price of a smart pot and hold about 2 1/2 gallons of soil I use steel wire for training so I just stab through the bag where needed and bend the wire in a hook to hold the bag then the same for the branch. I hope u find and easier and even cheaper way to al this. I've found fred meyer bags to offer the best drainage and they seem to have just slightly larger pores.


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## McFonz (Apr 13, 2010)

That 5hit said:


> the sock if made of cotton or if it has any level of degradeabe fiber in it will sooner or later fall apart -- 2 weeks tops
> it may even mold
> 
> fail .......at the worst time
> ...


 made of 20% cotton, 70% polyester and 10% nylon. Or something similar.

It might degrade. I would still try it.
I have tons of worn out socks. If it biodegrades to the stage it is not practical to use I'll just shove it in another sock.
I only need it to last 3 months or so.

I can also make the same thing out of fly screens for doors - I have a lot of it lying around.
But its more work. If the socks go well and I'd like the idea of roots air pruning I'll make some off that fly screen for my next winter grow.


Another thing to consider is that the construction should only stay in shape on its own until root establish and hold the soil. Then it could start biodegrading if it wants to.


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## Murfy (Apr 14, 2010)

sure those grocery bags are a good idea 
how big of plants do you grow in these 2.5 gallon bags?

how long do they last?


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## norcalikilla (Apr 14, 2010)

hey hobbes im sorry that i did not post a reply thanking you for the info. i could've sworn i did. i guess thats the medicine working! but anyway thank you so much for the replys and the knowledge. i have checked out some of those threads and have subed to one. i cant wait to get my new place to start my grow im literally shaking with excitment! +rep


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## Hobbes (Apr 14, 2010)

norcalikilla said:


> hey hobbes im sorry that i did not post a reply thanking you for the info. i could've sworn i did. i guess thats the medicine working! but anyway thank you so much for the replys and the knowledge. i have checked out some of those threads and have subed to one. i cant wait to get my new place to start my grow im literally shaking with excitment! +rep



Don't sweat it, I didn't notice! LOL! No plus reps needed, infact - no +reps perfered please and thank you. Norcalikiller you've got to write a complaint about me to balance the equation! 

I've had best luck with butane extractions but I want to get back to ice water kief and dissolve the trichs in a tiny bit of butane to make tincture making quicker.

.

Bongmilie


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## norcalikilla (Apr 15, 2010)

complaint against hobbes? not likely haha i think one of the first things im going to do with tincture is your quick 4-step with the 1/8 and some 151. i do want to make some co2 bottles and see how well those work and i need to figure out temp, humidity, and co2 in my closet grow at my new house. i really want to do an organic super soil too, however i think ill be growing in coco and maybe do some organics outdoors. 

do u have any cool diys for cleaning out old grinders and using the keif in there? i have like 3! please and thanks always brotha

nCk


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## Hobbes (Apr 30, 2010)

.

I harvested the last of my Skunkberry today, it's a good multi harvester like Flo, but gives Flo's entire harvest with each individual harvest. 

The Landscaping liner in a 5 gallon bucket worked phenomenally well to stop root circling and to develop a thick root mass. I'm incredibly impressed, good root constriction and lots of thin roots coming through the fabric, short skinny tips.

As I pull back the landscaping fabric we can see the lack of circling and the thickness of he outside roots.







.

There were some thick chunks of root when I cut up the ball







.


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## That 5hit (Apr 30, 2010)

so all said and done you would go with the landscaping fabric


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## Hobbes (May 1, 2010)

.

The landscaping fabric is easy: no holes drilled in the bucket; no second cover bucket; works as soon as the root tip penetrates the fabric rather than in cycles when the cover bucket is taken off - but - I'd like to see the root ball from the hole bucket first before deciding. The root system would have to be much better with the hole bucket to choose that method over the easier fabric liners.

This Skunkberry I just harvested had the fabric put around the root ball during flower, the hole buckets plants were the first to get root pruning buckets while in veg - at transplant from 6" pots to 5 gallon buckets. After harvesting those two hole buckets (~ 6 weeks) and comparing them to the landscaping buckets transplanted in veg we'll be able to see which of the two methods work better. The harvest from this Skunkberry, particularly the 3rd multi harvest, was excelent - some of the best I've had. Probably 2 liters cured bud from the bottom third of this plant.

For now both methods work great and it's hard to pick one over the other for effectiveness.

.


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## Murfy (May 1, 2010)

after following hobbes and his buckets

i actually saw another guy doing almost this same thing but he was a commercial grower =pots with holes and fabric, if i come across it again i'll post pics


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## Hobbes (May 1, 2010)

.

Wow Murphy, what a fantastic idea! 

Pre made holes from a laundry basket, imagine that!







.

The fabric looks like the thinner, tiny hole fabric rather than the fiberglass mat. Great idea except there's no cover bucket to keep the outside of the root ball moist until the roots grow out of the holes, then drying and root tip dying. We could easily get around the lack of cover bucket by wrapping in plastic with Velcro to hold the plastic in place, then remove the plastic to dry out the root tips and the outer root ball.

One sweet idea!

.


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## Murfy (May 1, 2010)

thanks hobbes, but this was your idea i just changed it a little

so you think that the soil would dry to fast, my plants arew gonna be about 12 inches when i up can i figured i uld just keep an eye on it as i am newly disabled and have ALOT of time to spend with the girls, and my thinkig was most evaporation will go out the top, i was gonna just put something over the top of the pot, maybe that reflective stuff with the bubble wrap in the middle?

anyway your experiment was ground breaking and your input on this is valuable indeed-
i'm gonna up can today i'll put up pics!


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## That 5hit (May 1, 2010)

you could allways just water more 
maybe every day just use plain water
i dont think it would become that dry that fast
maybe use high mositer soil
but really the water every day sounds ok


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## tightpockt (May 1, 2010)

Just killed an hour or so reading this thread and really enjoyed it. I did some searching on google on saw this thread on instructables (which is an awesome site for DIY'ers) 
http://www.instructables.com/id/Milk-Crate-Air-Pot-Square-Foot-Urban-Container-G/

Also, I was thinking combining this method with a hempy bucket would be a pretty neat experiment. Cut the bottom two inches off of the bottom of a bucket and cut about a two inch band off of the top of the bucket and then wrap window screening between the two. Kind of like building a DIY carbon scrubber but instead of carbon fill it with perlite. Watering might be a pain..you'd just have to pour it in real slow. Or you could just skip all of that aggravation and time and buy a smart pot for 3 dollars.


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## Murfy (May 2, 2010)

my pots were 1.29 piece plus fabric

and i agree with shizzle, water more, i do have a high perlite/secret ingredient percentage that should really help


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## Hobbes (Jun 13, 2010)

.

I have 10 plants in my flower garden, 8 strains. The two biggest producing and healthiest plants are those in the air pruning buckets, they look much better than the root constriction plants (landscape fabric) and I think will yield more. My problem comparing is the different strains, then the one strain that I have two near harvest are from seed, not clone.

.

These are Strawberry Cough by Dutch Passion, good producers, 9-10 weeks, anti anxiety high. I had 3 in landscape fabric buckets and the plant on the left below in an air pruning bucket. The root constriction plant below (right) was the best producer of the three root constriction buckets. The four were all put into flower within a day or two of each other. I clipped 6 colas half way down on the air pruning bucket for samples and to let light to the lower colas. I clipped 6 from the landscape fabric bucket too, there are just more long colas, but not as big buds.













.

Super Silver Haze on the left, with another 4-6 weeks left (in an air pruning bucket), and a Big Bhudda Cheese on the right in a landscaping bucket. The Cheese is an excellent producer (should be 8-12 cups of cured bud) but the SSH is enormous - the top left cola alone will be more than a liter (4 cups). I don't know if it's the strain (Cheese is suppose to be a good producer as well) but of 10 plants in the garden the air pruning buckets are the most vibrant and best producers.













Here's the top left cola from above, about 11" of cola so far.







.
After I harvest the air pruning bucket Strawberry Cough I'll post some pics of the root ball and give a quick description of any differences from the landscape fabric buckets I've been harvesting.

.



.

edit: I forgot to mention that the stems of the two air pruning bucket plants are much thicker (50%) than the other 8 root constriction bucket stems. Seems like too many coincidences to be coincidence, I'm going to run 5 Air Pruning buckets and 5 root constriction buckets to run a fair test. I've got two Jillybean clones (Candy Store pheno) that will go into flower in another month, I'll do one in each bucket.

.


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## Murfy (Jun 13, 2010)

sweet-

the pots i built out of the laundry baskets are doin kick ass, the roots are like Frankenstein, gnarly as hell, and like growin sideways and shit
i'll post some pics tomorrow when the lights come on, after seeing this i will probably invest in some form of root pruning pot, the only down side is the evaporation factor, i water every day, if i am late by an hour the plants look like hell


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## Hobbes (Jun 13, 2010)

.

Murphy I got around the watering frequency problem by using the air pruning 5 gallon bucket inside a regular 5 gallon bucket (with holes drilled in the bottom but not the sides). The cover bucket makes it like a regular bucket, a couple of days before watering I pop the AP bucket out, let the root tips dry up and die. Then put the cover bucket back on, water, and start the cycle over. 

You could get a similar effect by duct taping plastic around your laundry basket.

I also use landscaping fabric for the liner in my air pruning pots now, so I get root constriction then air pruning for any tips that grow through.

Works fantastic, same watering schedule as my root constriction buckets - just more growth.

.


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## Murfy (Jun 13, 2010)

i actually don't mind the watering,
the soil in my buckets is very loose and the stems on these things are FREAKS


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## Hobbes (Jun 13, 2010)

.

Super thick stems?

Amazing, my two AP buckets are the same, the two thickest stems in my garden - carry more nutes, maybe an indicator of a better root system.

I think we are on to something. The apparent improvement over the root constriction buckets is amazing, this really surprised me.

.


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## legalizeitcanada (Jun 14, 2010)

That slip mat is a great ideA!! gunna try that!



NickNasty said:


> That 5hit, If that were true then why would chemical pruning work? Im sure the air helps but the pruning also has something to with it.Anyways I was thinking about doing DIY air pots too and I have a couple ideas.
> 1. I was thinking about making Air Pot grow bags, Im sure you have all seen the grow bags you can get like 100 for 20$
> 
> 
> ...


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## Murfy (Jun 14, 2010)

here's those pics, although i'm having some sort of lockout at the moment(things got hectic there for a week or two), these plants have grown great have hella stems, and i think have shown more vigorous growth and foliage, over traditional pots

these stems are twice as big as my thumb

sorry about the shitty pics, didn't notice, i'll get better ones later

and if anyone wants to chime in on my deficiency, take a looksy at my journal


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Jun 14, 2010)

great thread....wanna know how the psbc skunkberry is...grew out 2 females to 4 weeks flower....then had to move 1500 miles so i let a friend have them....it amazing how fast some people can kill a plant.....got 6 beans left and was thinkin of germ'n......cant wait to try this air pruning


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## Hobbes (Jun 15, 2010)

.

I've been running Peak Skunkberry for years now, along with Serious Kali Mist and Bubblegum it's my oldest genetics. A real keeper, fantastic relaxing stone, good producer, strong grape smell after curing 3 or 4 weeks, turns purple with Overdrive, easy to grow, forgiving of grower errors (your buddy must have tried to grow them in a propane oven by mistake), excellent producer ... exactly what we want from a Blue Cheese stain. You're going to be happy growing them and with the final product.

http://www.peakseedsbc.com/seeds.htm

.


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Jun 15, 2010)

lol....no hes jst a fkn idiot.....didnt get a timer and only gave two plants a dul 4ft T8......rookie


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## Hobbes (Jun 19, 2010)

.

I believe that the question of which root pruning method produces more yield will be answered by these pictures. This is the 4th Strawberry Cough I've harvested, from 4 plants from seeds. This is the last plant into flower, the only air pruning pot, the rest were root constriction, the two stems were 31" and 24", grown CCOB with a tomato cage. I can grow 12 of these under a 600 watt HPS with my set up.

























.

And this is the harvest, at least 50% better than the best root constriction plant and double the other two - pheno may have something to do with yield but the difference is too big to dismiss. And the spooky thing is my Super Silver Haze in my other air pruning pot, with 4-5 weeks left, is going to have 50% - 100% more yield than this SC. Just a monster. These are 1 liter jars and dense top colas.







I've made 4 more AP buckets and have 6 in the garden now. I'm making another 4 tonight and all of my plants in training and early flower will be in air pots, and I bought 10 new buckets yesterday so I can make an additional 6 buckets and I'll have one for every plant that needs a 5 gallon bucket (12 flower and 4 training).

.


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Jun 19, 2010)

looks like an amazing harvest......u think u could do a rundown on yield for each bucket...or atleast a guess.....is it worth in in terms of yield???


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## That 5hit (Jun 19, 2010)

so whats the bottom line 
if had to do it all over again
what would you use


is this right:
landscaping fabric 













optional second pot used when watering


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## Hobbes (Jun 20, 2010)

.

*"u think u could do a rundown on yield for each bucket...or atleast a guess"*

The first two root constriction buckets produced just under 2 liters each (7-8 cups), the third root constriction just under 2 1/2 liters (10 cups). If I clipped the buds from those top colas in the last picture I posted above I'd probably get 2-3 cups, so total 3 1/2 liters (14 cups) for the Air Pruning pot. The plants looked night and day different, the air pruning pot stayed fairly green right up to the end even though I gave it no nitrogen for 8 weeks, the leaves were thicker. The plant looked healthier and more vibrant.

*"is it worth in in terms of yield???"*

Absolutely, it was the easiest addition and biggest yield improvement I've done to my garden since my Light Rail. I'm going to have 16 air pruning buckets that I've made and I'm going to order a couple commercial air pruning pots for comparison. I'll never grow without something that promotes root branching, the difference is amazing.

.
.
.

*"so whats the bottom line, if had to do it all over again what would you use?*

The Air Pruning buckets. My home made air pruning bucket out-produced 3 root constriction buckets (same strain but from seed, not clone) by between 40% and 75% yield and the plants were healthier. Potency test to come but I expect potency will be equal to or greater than the other 3. 

I've been transplanting all of my 5 gallon root constriction bucket plants to air pruning buckets.


*"is this right: landscaping fabric "*

Correct. I find the fabric easier to use than window fiberglass screen, I couldn't find any warning against using either around ingestible plants. As well, the fabric gives us root constriction while the cover bucket is preventing air pruning.

*"optional second pot used when watering"*

I use the cover bucket all the time except for a day or two before watering - I let the root tips that are sticking out of the fabric dry up and I break them off by rubbing across the fabric after letting dry. There is immediate root constriction when the roots penetrate the fabric, before I remove the cover bucket for air pruning. The best of both methods. I leave the cover bucket on the rest of time to cut down on watering frequency from evaporation. A couple of days of drying kills the root tips for me, the new tips are growing out of the screen every time I take the cover off. 

Water in the middle of the bucket, slowly. Make a slight depression in the soil to make a bowl shape, to keep the water in the middle. The water will seep to the edges of the bucket and not leak out between buckets. The cover bucket makes watering much cleaner, no spillage.

.

*Thread Summary*

To summarize for people just joining the thread: By killing the root tip by drying (or through root constriction - making the root grow through a small hole, the landscape fabric) we cause a build up of sugars in the root. The root will get larger in diameter and a secondary root will grow out of the main root - for this example a lateral root growing out of the tap root, growing towards the holes in the bucket wall. These secondary root tips will eventually grow out of the holes and die themselves, promoting a third level of roots which will follow this process.

The reason this is preferred to letting the root circle the bucket (38" per revolution): 

- maximum distance the water will travel through the root to get to the tap root.

Instead of circling the bucket once or twice, ending up with 6" + 38" + 38" = 82" of root the secondary root will grow ~6" from the tap to the holes in the bucket wall and the root tip will die, the root will increase in diameter and bud a secondary root of it's own and the process continues like a fractal. Shorter distance from water uptake to tap root.


- diameter of roots (flow)

Larger pipe to transport the water / nutes.


- More roots in the middle of the bucket instead of circling around the rim, up-taking water and nutes where there were very few roots before.


.


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## That 5hit (Jun 20, 2010)

ok.. i think i understand now ......
i thought you where using the term "root pruning bucket" and "root constricting buckit" enter changablely but now i understand them tobe 2 differant systems 
@ the "root pruning bucket" is the buckets with the tiny holes in it (this is the one you suggest, and would use again, you also said it out proformed everything eles) 
@ the "root constricting buckit" are the buckets that use the landscapeing fabric

so what do your diy "air pruning bucket" look like 
i'm guessing there the buckets with the holes drilled in them 
you use them without the fabric lining and when you water you place a cover bucket over them.... is this correct


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## Murfy (Jun 20, 2010)

constriction is when the root becomes constricted by being able to pass through a hole of certain diameter and then "choked off"

air prune is simply the roots touching the air and dying on the end
i used clothes baskets with rubbery plastic with holes in it type fabric, and they are doing great: i think i get both types of root pruning also as the roots pretty much die and fall off as soon as they poke through, my entire mass of medium is completely filled with hair like roots

next grow i will use smart pots, for 5 or so bucks a piece, i'm sure they're worth it


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## Hobbes (Jun 20, 2010)

.

Murfy is correct.

.

*"so what do your diy "air pruning bucket" look like, i'm guessing there the buckets with the holes drilled in them, you use them without the fabric lining and when you water you place a cover bucket over them.... is this correct"*

Correct. I'm combining the air pruning buckets (with the holes drilled), with the landscaping fabric for root constriction, then lowering the air pruning bucket (lined with landscape fabric and with the plant inside) inside the cover bucket (which is just a regular bucket with holes drilled in the bottom).

.

*"next grow i will use smart pots, for 5 or so bucks a piece, i'm sure they're worth it"*

I bought 3 of different sizes last online hyrdo order, they're thicker than the landscape fabric I have and may do a better job of root constriction. And they're dirt cheap, a couple bucks a pot.

.


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## norcalikilla (Jun 22, 2010)

everytime this thread comes up as new on my updates i get excited! hobbes you must be stoked to see that your ideas have been working phenomenally! as am i. i cant wait to have the option of doing this myself one day (wen i no longer have landlords) but as for now, im just growing in partycups. 

your harvest looks great man! cant wait to read the smoke report and potency test!

nCk


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## McFonz (Jun 22, 2010)

I thought about all those things recently and haven't figured why a lot of small holes wouldn't work the same way as making large holes and using a fabric.
Making a lot of small holes quick is easy - punch a lot of long nails into a plank, heat 'em all up over a stove and punch the plastic. You can make loads of holes pretty quickly.
Needless to say the cost would probably be much lower.

The medium shouldn't spill out and roots should be able to poke through.
As you said, an extra bucket to lower the evaporation rate would probably be benificial.

Does it make sense or am I missing something big?


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## Murfy (Jun 22, 2010)

that would probably work well-

smart pots are 6 bucks apiece for 10 gal, are reusable, washable, and you set them and go


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## WeBreedGreatness (Jul 13, 2010)

I'm going to try and adapt this bodacious info to 2 liter bottles. don't ask me why, i just like recycling. any suggestions?


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## Don Gin and Ton (Jul 14, 2010)

great idea! sorry no suggestion well maybe one but you probably already thought of it. paint them so no light gets in, christ what a lame suggestion. good luck

whats the word hobbes?


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## WeBreedGreatness (Jul 24, 2010)

What about using tyvek? It's waterproof and breathable..


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## Hobbes (Jul 30, 2010)

.

Hey guys! Sorry its taken me so long to get back to you, I was designing a CO2 subcritical fluid extractor to replace butane extraction and the process was a hell of a lot of fun. Here's a link to the thread if you want to check it out - all the info for the extractor is in blue, I wove threads of information - technical, letters, comedy, philosophy, music, video - to make it like a fun park to visit while a person absorbs the extractor info. The info is all in point form - in blue - if all you want to do is breeze through that it's easy to pick out. 

Have a look, spin your mouse wheel, it doesn't matter where you start. Bookmark the thread, open an account, post a hello and drop back in again and again if you enjoy the place. If you want to build your own CO2 extractor and help the medical marijuana community - lower prices to patients and increase the potency and quality of their extracts - I'll work through the process with anyone who wants to understand it - but only on Jon Stewart's forum. I wrestled with that beast for two weeks, it would add and subtract lines and blocks of text at will and randomly. I just needed a quiet place and there is NO place quieter than Jon Stewart's forum. Ba ding bam!

It's formatted for a MacBook Pro 17" screen, there's a short introduction on the first page.

http://forums.thedailyshow.com/?page=ThreadView&thread_id=28916&pg=1

To understand, construct and operate the extractor this is all you need - if you put enough time into thinking the process through.







.

*"your harvest looks great man! cant wait to read the smoke report and potency test!"*

It was my best yet Norcal, with the least work. After bending the plant into a Crop Circle Of Bud I basically just soak it with 2 gallons of water with 1/2 strength fox farm every watering. Most potent, frostiest, best yield. 

I figure an average of 3 litres per plant, some close to 4 and the lowest a little over 2 1/2. I don't bother to weigh but did some test runs on some strains awhile back - I cure mine to between 8 % and 11% of cut weight over 4 to 6 weeks; after 4 weeks cure a litre would weigh between 60 grams and 110 grams; so at an average of 3 litres at the lowest weight I'd get 180 grams per plant. It doesn't seem like much, I'm sure I get more than that. And I'm running 11 plants now instead of 12, a row of 6 and a row of 5 for a bit more space. 

So 11 plants at 3 litres a plant at 60 grams a litre is 1980 grams on a 600 watt light; 10 strains (2 Kali Mist); continuous grow; no large yielding strains; fox farm nutes, pro mix, holes drilled in my buckets and floor. I'm going to get some Endless Sky beans from Doc and see how I'd do with a big yielder.

These buckets are great for anyone who's getting root rot. If you're getting spider mites take a look at my Air Floor thread.

And drop into Jon's forum and open an account! I need you guys there, we need a critical mass.

http://forums.thedailyshow.com/?page=ThreadView&thread_id=28916&pg=1


I get about this much per plant per harvest:







.



(they don't even have a  on Jon's forum, it was hard to post)


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## Hobbes (Jul 30, 2010)

.

*"why a lot of small holes wouldn't work the same way as making large holes and using a fabric. ... Does it make sense or am I missing something big?"*

It makes sense McFonz. I went with the larger holes because I thought it'd be quicker, then just kept at it. It'll be a combination of the total area of the holes and their pattern - so a root that hits the bucket wall will eventually grow to a hole and the root tip die. Big holes, small hoes, whatever works best for you.

.



.


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## Hobbes (Jul 30, 2010)

.

*"I'm going to try and adapt this bodacious info to 2 liter bottles. don't ask me why, i just like recycling. any suggestions?"*

It'll be the same as a 5 gallon bucket except for the cover bucket. I like having a cover to keep the root ball moist longer, makes watering cleaner. Perhaps another 2 litre bottle cut into a tube and slid over your hole bucket - or if its too tight a fit cut a slit up the bottle sheath and open it like a hinge to get it around the hole bucket, then hole together with elastics or velcro.







Masking tape would make a good disposable strap.

.

For clear vs dark - the light won't kill the roots but it won't help them either. A sheet of black plastic around the bottle could act as both moisture barrier and light block. I always find plastic hard to handle on containers, putting a hard cover over the plastic, like the cut 2 litre bottle from above would help but take a bit longer setting up each time. 

A good experiment would be to run a half dozen of each type of container to see which yields better.

.


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## Hobbes (Jul 31, 2010)

.

*"one question: is using the pvc necessary"*

LOL!! Good point!

The model is a conceptual - its a teaching model only, not a working model. That's made from stainless steel - all of the written: parts list, assembly instructions, operating directions and parts list are in BLUE text on Jon's forum.

Everything else you advanced is correct, and more. There are very few trace chemicals left after a butane extraction, the concern is more for impurities in the butane than actual butane itself. But ... emptying two cans of butane into a single tray of brownies makes me queasy. Butane leaches various heavy metals from PVC, there is a past about that on my "gifts" thread on Jon's forum.

NL if you could would you open an account on Jon's forum and copy and past the question there - I want to start a discussion ... with other people for awhile! 

Sometimes the journey is more important than the destination - I'm sure I could have made money selling these by now but if I start giving away fishes we're not going to go where we have to go. In pleasure boating there are two basic schools of thought - sailing and stink pots. In a power boat the destination is important - if going to an island a few clicks off shore you can power out in minutes and everyone can go about doing what they want to do. Sailing out requires time, skill and effort - people can get a ride out to the island and enjoy the scenery or they can chip in and help sail the boats: learning new skills that they can pass on, developing working friendships with their crew mates. 

We are rudderless with only one engine working on a side, spinning us in circles.


http://forums.thedailyshow.com/?page=ThreadView&thread_id=28916&pg=1

.


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## bobhamm (Aug 8, 2010)

Just wanted to say thanks for the thread and your work on this, very helpful!


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## sonofdust (Sep 17, 2010)

Hope you dont mind if I poke my nose in. First, this is a kick ass thread with lots of good info. THANK YOU ALL.
You guys got me going. I did a little research and came up with something I'de like to share with ya. Its called "Root tip trapping".
A grow pot is lined with a fine screen, as the root tips grow into the screen the tips get pinched off as the roots get biger, causing the root to branch. The guy who came up with this took 40 years to do so.


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## sonofdust (Sep 17, 2010)

This articile can be found at maximumyield.com under Root Pruning 101. by Gaby Bronzstein under author archive.
Hope you can use some of this but, it looks like you have it all under control.


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## Hobbes (Sep 17, 2010)

.

Hey Sonofdust, welcome to RUI!

.

*"Root tip trapping"*

Page 1 of this thread forward, the liner for the Air Pruning buckets are root constriction/trapping. Root tip trapping by itself produces good results - I ran the trapping pots, the air pruning pots and both together - the combo out performs both.

.

*"The guy who came up with this took 40 years to do so."*

If we can see a little further and get there a little faster it's because we are standing on the shoulder's of giants who've walked this road before us. Gaby's article is great, a wealth of knowledge. One of those I studied when working on this thread.

.


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## Hobbes (Sep 17, 2010)

.

*You Got Eyes >>> Plagiarize! *

.

*Root Pruning 101*

*by Gaby Bronzstein

2010-06-01

Plant roots are out of sight and for many indoor growers this means they are also out of mind. This is quite unfortunate as optimal root health is critical if plants are to achieve their genetic potential.

The following are the most common methods of root pruning:

Clippers
If done properly, root pruning with clippers can be effective. However, it is not practical for obvious reasons, primarily the shock to the plant, which results in delayed growth. Cutting roots leaves an open wound that can serve as a pathway for pathogens.

Chemicals
Sprayed copper containers have been used successfully to prune roots. When the root tips reach the copper-lined pots the roots are forced to branch as the copper can burn the root tip. While this method is quite effective at pruning roots and preventing circling, copper toxicity can be a problem.

Root constriction
This method of root pruning uses material that allows the root tip to grow through the material yet it constricts the plant from growing larger. Branching occurs as a result of the constriction. This system of root pruning has been used for years in tree farms. The benefit of using this system is that not only do you create a fibrous root system in the container but the roots grow into the ground making it easier to feed and water the plants while not having them blow over. Plants are moved by simply lifting the container from the ground, stripping away any roots growing through the container and then removing the in-ground container. This creates minimal stress as most of the roots are still in the container and those removed are small.

.







.

Air root pruning
Air pruning of roots is accomplished with the use of containers that direct the root towards air where the root tip is dehydrated, facilitating branching. Next, the roots are directed to an opening where they are pruned. The first attempts at air pruning containers involved putting holes or slices into normal containers. While increased growth rates were seen, roots were still wrapping and no root pruning was evident. Increased growth was attributed to more O2 in the root zone. What was learned from this was that the roots needed to be directed to the air holes.

The first effective air pruning containers where bottomless milk cartons on a wire bench. The first trials were conducted with seedlings. The tap root grew down to the bottom of the container, through the wire bench and was exposed to air. Branching would occur back along this root for about four inchesknown as the four inch rule.

The newest versions of air pruning containers offer unparalleled performance and create extremely fibrous roots. One option is shaped in such a way that when the roots hit the side wall they get directed downward into an air hole. This is where the air pruning takes place. This process is repeated again and again with the branching roots creating extremely fibrous root systems. Other air pruning containers have many more holes all around the container at the end of downward facing protrusions. This design allows the roots to find the air holes immediately when reaching toward the container wall. The downward protrusions direct the roots so that when they reached the air hole it is virtually impossible for the tip to escape being pruned. The angled protrusions on the containers also provide shade for the entire container keeping them much cooler than standard containers. These containers may dry out a little faster indoors, but they actually conserve water.

Fibrous roots create faster growing plants that have less transplant shock and greater yields.  Dr. Whitcomb

Root tip-trapping
In situations where water conservation is critical, root trapping bags are a great option for root pruning. Root trapping bags work by trapping the root in the fabric and forcing it to branch. Over 100 root tips can be pruned in just one square inch of fabric! Some root trapping bags are lined in white on the outside of the bag making it more durable and reflecting heat in the form of solar energy.

These containers can also be used with media like hydroton or perlite. This is because generally these systems get irrigated too often to allow hydration of the root tip in order to prune the roots.

Root tip-trapping is also shown to be extremely effective when placed under propagation media. Numerous experiments with a number of media and containers have shown that simply placing the root trapping material under rockwool or even a standard cell pack, for instance, will prune the roots that hit it forcing massive side branching of roots.

Proper root pruning is an extremely valuable tool for growers that grow at home. It has taken over 40 years to fully understand the best way to care for roots and today the options are virtually limitless.

.*


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## jointluver (Sep 18, 2010)

Very impressive stuff, I will try this soon using CFL's and an auto flowering strain. Thanks
+rep.


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## sonofdust (Sep 18, 2010)

Thanks Mr. Hobbes for the reply and the welcome..
Do you think it would be worth the extra effort to line my water farm buckets with a 120 mesh teflon screen.


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## Hobbes (Sep 18, 2010)

.

This kind sonofdust? (I'm writing an ebook from my posts so it may look a little funny.)

.

Index: *Roots*

Tags: *hydroponics, root pruning*



*Bad news*: If it's any kind of hydro system then no, mesh and fabric are too cumbersome. Landscaping fabric won't work, the weave is too loose in water, doesn't do the job well. You could make a durable mesh bag, like a bubblebag, but it's a lot of work to make and use. Cleaning and clogging will be a problem, the root tips will always be washed out of the mesh holes by the water flow.

*Good News:* Any kind of hydro has free floating roots - cut them with scissors. That's it. Measure where your pump inlet valve is on the bucket and cut the roots above that so the pump doesn't get clogged. Everything will work better, the bucket, the pump, the plant will grow better. Within a few weeks your roots will be pushing to the sides of the bucket.

*CAUTION: Don't cut the roots too short.* (Your bucket is about 16" tall) - (pump 4" off the ground), = (10" - 12" roots). The slim roots will swell with sugars and thicken, then bud laterals (side roots) and these laterals will do the same in turn.

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I've never seen these, is this the kind and do they have hydrostone inside? If these roots aren't washed around I would just line it with landscaping fabric. Even better, get some fabric sewn into bags. Landscaping Fabric is only $3.50 for a 3'x50' roll, get the thickest you can find. The fibreglass woven type, not the small hole type.







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## sonofdust (Sep 18, 2010)

Yes Sir,
Thats pretty mush the same system I'm running. Scissor's it will be...
Thank you ever so much Mr. Hobbes


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## secretagent (Oct 10, 2010)

Hey there Hobbes! Gotta say thanks first off for your amazing attention to detail and open sharing of information. I come from a permaculture/organic farming background and am new to the ganja farming world, and have been somewhat surprised at how little most growers understand plants. So coming across what your doing is great as i feel like it is really cutting edge and paradigm shifting the way you are approaching growing. Your DIY AeroPots are going to be the final piece of the puzzle for my grow and I am really excited about them. Really it all comes down to growing roots, thanks for reminding me of that. 

Anyways, I just have one question that I can't seem to figure out from the pics or your descriptions. Are there holes in the outer bucket? Also, what sort of drill bit have you had the most success with when drilling the buckets? Thanks for your help, gonna start this project soon!


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## Hobbes (Oct 10, 2010)

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Secretagent I wrote this to go in the ebook - a lot of it is obviously below your level of expertise and I didn't want you to think that I was talking down to you. I don't really understand people on an intuitive level and some of my posts piss people off when I have no intention of doing so. Thanks.

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Index: *Equipment*

Tags: *drill bit, root pruning buckets*

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Hey Secretagent!

*"Are there holes in the outer bucket?"*

Not in the outer walls, only a few in the bottom for drainage. The outer bucket is to keep the moisture in until we want to kill the root tips.







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*"Also, what sort of drill bit have you had the most success with when drilling the buckets?"*

A wood drill with a flat cutting edge. The sharp tip cuts through the plastic like butter, the bit goes through the bucket wall in a fraction of a second with almost no effort.







The tip of the wood drill bit is great for making small holes in the bottom of the inner buckets for great drainage. The outer buckets need only a few 3/8" holes since there is 2" of air between the two bucket bottoms - constantly raised buckets and full bottom drainage reduce the chance of root rot.







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If you have a drill bit with fangs on the outer edge of the cutting edge they will dig into your bucket and cause trouble. I recommend buying a drill bit with a flat cutting edge, if you cannot then you may be able to file down the fangs.













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Offset drill bits will give you trouble as well.







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If you can't buy a drill bit use the one you have with the sharpest point.







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*Safety - Do not lock the drill in the ON position!.*

If the drill bit catches in your pants or sock it will wind into your ankle before you can release the catch.





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## Hobbes (Nov 21, 2010)

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An update for everyone concerning the root pruning cups and 6" pots. Since putting plants into flower that have started in root pruning containers rather than waiting until a 5 gallon bucket root pruning container (using our cycle-soak watering technique rather than continuous soak), water retention per bucket - from lift-light dry to the start of water run through the buckets drainage holes:

- has increased from a range of 1.5 to 2 gallons of water per 5 gallon bucket before run through starts

to

- 2.5 to 3 gallons of water retained per 5 gallon bucket before run through starts.

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The root mass increase is amazing. Again, I feel like a fool for waiting on this as I feel like a fool for harvesting roots for cloning from our root pruning buckets with root tip trapping fabric liner:

*Root Clone Dilemma Solved*​
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[video=youtube;8WYHDfJDPDc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WYHDfJDPDc[/video]​
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## Hobbes (Nov 21, 2010)

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## PurpleRhinoceros (Dec 3, 2010)

Thought you might be interested in how I made Mine.

https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/389656-diy-fabric-pots-jumpman-pipe.html


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## Hobbes (Dec 6, 2010)

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Thanks PurpleRhinooceros! What a fantastic design! I love the cuff at the top for rigidity. 

This is a science thread, so while it may seem like we're tearing your fantastic creation (and it is fantastic) apart --- we are. It's our sincerest form of flattery to be interested enough in you design to want to know how it works and if it can be improved as we all hope that the baton we are carrying for a brief while will be improved by the next person.

So shake the fucking sand from your panties if you find yourself momentarily taken back by any of these questions, I wouldn't have asked the one if what you accomplished wasn't so impressive:

- I'm interested in the watering difference because of evaporation through the side wall of the fabric - how quickly does the side of the root ball dry out? 

- How much more often would you water? 3 times for every 2 with a plastic pot? 4 times for 3?

- Do you adapt you nutrient concentration?

- Do you notice nute burn on the leaf tips?

- Do you use them as liners?

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I'll have more questions as I think about what we can do with this ....

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Fantastic job, thanks for posting the link!!

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## WeBreedGreatness (Jan 6, 2011)

I found some 7 inch felt buckets at Target during the Halloween clearance. Looks pretty legit with a cute lil ghost on the side. lol but in all seriousness, it seems the felt is doing an amazing job at pruning the roots, not one had broken through and the plant is looking fantastic! thank you again Hobbes!!!


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## WeBreedGreatness (Jan 26, 2011)

I was just wondering, would there be a way to scale this down, for stealth growers like me? i read earlier that you were making some "eternity pots", and i like the concept, i just can;t picture it. do you think this would work for a 1-2 gallon pot, with CCOB?


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## puntacometa (Feb 7, 2011)

NickNasty said:


> I was looking around on the net and found a thread of a lady who was making DIY Air Pots out that thicker landscaping fabric you have she was just sewing it into a bag shape and using that she said she had be using them for awhile and they were doing exactly what they were supposed to do. So if people have the landscape fabric and a sewing machine they could just do that.You could sew in handles if you wanted. I wish I had bookmarked the thread cause I can't seem to find it now. I also was thinking of other stuff you could line like the 5 gallon buckets you were using and thought milk crates might work out well.


The 10 gallon Wonder Pot fits perfectly in a milk crate. Put the pot in the crate, dump in about 1 cu yard of grow medium and you have a perfect home for your girls. I've never had healtheir plants since I started using these.
http://www.thewonderpot.com/about-wonder-pot.html#square


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## RawBudzski (Feb 10, 2011)

View attachment 1433420 I did it for you hobbes


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## Illumination (May 6, 2011)

The end of RIU and the Attitude has begun eh my friend? 

Very smart way and will probably work awesomely well...very very good 

Contact me if you will

Namaste'


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## PineappleBunk (Jun 5, 2011)

Flowering plants came around after the dinosaurs... Crazy fact to me.
_funk 


Hobbes said:


> .
> 
> by Poppinfresh
> 
> ...


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## jpill (Jun 5, 2011)

SUPER ROOTS AIR POTS ALL DAY !!!! i use them and love them. !


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## TJames (Jul 20, 2011)

Not sure if this thread is still active but thought I'd try a post anyway. This has been an excellent read. If someone is doing a scrog in a small confined space, you would not be able to have the outer pail (removing and replacing). I had thought to perhaps try this anyway, and simply water more. I had planned a central pail with bubbler and pump the aerated water to each plant continuously. Or perhaps a timer for interval watering. Since the water does not have nutes, no risk of nute buildup from overwatering / feeding. 

Either way, if I did this I would have constantly exposed holes. I'm not seing this as a bad thing but hoped for some feedback. 

Thanks for the excellent thread.


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## TechnoMage (Jul 20, 2011)

Hey Hobbes. Incredible thread, I have to try this out. I was wondering if you ever did your comparison to the commercial air-pruning pots.


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Sep 21, 2011)

I like the thread...great idea,...But I am not so sure about having the outside bucket...I am in a tight space and it seems like it would be a bit of pai to keep removing outer bucket, no?

I maybe interested in the smart bag, wonder bag, etc. inside a milk crate....Has anyone done something similar to this with good results ?

Also I transplanted fast growing plant from party cup to 2 gallon,..roots were way spiraling...In only a
couple days
roots were coming out the bottom of that pot...that was about 8 days ago or so....ANOTHER QUESTION: I am pretty sure roots are spiraling now...Would it be
beneficial to go to some kind of air pruning system at this point ? or is it too late ? thanks...peace and +rep


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## TechnoMage (Sep 21, 2011)

If anyone's interested, I'm going to be running a *https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/465519-air-pot-vs-standard-pot.html* experiment. Just waiting for my clones to develop roots.


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## chasmtz (Sep 22, 2011)

Okay i read this whole thread and enjoyed it. I have thought of employing the method of cutting my own holes. I have cut holes near the bottom(on top of typical drainage) but now as I filter in a new cycle, I'm gonna cut the buckets to swiss cheese! I'm sorry but i really dont see the purpose of the outer bucket and physically breaking the roots. Just holes in the bucket would do the same thing wouldnt it? just seems like added, not needed steps/work. I love the thread, thank you.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 26, 2011)

Resurrected, found it doing a Google search......



Hobbes said:


> .....Now onto chemical root pruning. This thread off of RIU shows Mogie using Griffin's Spin-Out. If you read the thread and look at the pics the stuff really works. A word of caution on chemical root pruining. This study done by, Carl Whitcomb, Ph.D. titled "Improving Containers Copper is Not the Answer"
> 
> "Improving Containers Copper is Not the Answer" questions whether or not copper spayed on the inside effects the plants growth. One big idea he proposed was "Mycorrhizal fungi that aid growth of most plants are also killed along with
> other beneficial microorganisms" inside copper sprayed pots. This is disturbing considering how much the micro herd is needed to get full lush plants in organic soil growing.


1. That is not Mogie's garden, it is mine. I was the first to use Griffin's Spin-out on cannabis FWIW. Here's my Spin-Out thread which was first published about 6 years ago at the now defunct Overgrow site - https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html I still use Griffin's on most everything including edibles like citrus trees in large pots.

2. Dr. Whitcomb is a very knowledgeable man and I have talked to him several times, but by stating "a big idea" about the use of Cu paints he's directing potential customers away from a product that has been used successfully for decades. I doubt if he has ever laid his hands on Cu pruning products like Griffin's much less looked at the myco colony using a microscope after a plant was in a Cu painted pot and root tip pruned by the Cu ions over a period of time. I doubt seriously if the Cu kills anything as the ions are located along the side and bottom walls of the pot, not along the root shaft nor found in the potting mix. It's all in the context of how its used and is designed. I'll have to discuss this with him. 

Due to their unique design Rootmaker products are the best I've found doing my research and inquiring at other gardening forums. Air pots look good too but are quite expensive - http://www.growers-inc.com/air-pots.html Except for the fabric type Rootmaker products direct the roots outside of the pot because of the unique structure and pores of the sidewalls. I just received a 18" X 100' roll of Rootbuilder and will custom build my own pots. Rootmaker also makes many excellent products including fabric, plastic injected molded pots, seeding trays, bottoms, etc.

Uncle Ben


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 26, 2011)

chasmtz said:


> Okay i read this whole thread and enjoyed it. I have thought of employing the method of cutting my own holes. I have cut holes near the bottom(on top of typical drainage) but now as I filter in a new cycle, I'm gonna cut the buckets to swiss cheese! I'm sorry but i really dont see the purpose of the outer bucket and physically breaking the roots. Just holes in the bucket would do the same thing wouldnt it? just seems like added, not needed steps/work. I love the thread, thank you.


Holes don't direct the roots. A root will continue in a circular pattern until it is terminated or re-directed. What you want to accomplish is to start and finish with a radial root structure configuration, like spokes on a bicycle tire. The jest is don't try to jerry rig this thing. Buy a specially designed product that "grabs" the roots and directs them out of the container. 

UB


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## Boobonik (Oct 26, 2011)

Hobbes this thread is Genius!! And everyone else that has contributed, Thanks!! Im definitly going to go and make some air pruning/root trapping buckets today. cant wait to see the difference!


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## wakebakeworksleep (Nov 29, 2011)

Burlap my friend, burlap. It's strong, breathable and perfect for lining custom plastic buckets like yours for air-pruning and trapping.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 30, 2011)

If you really want air pruning to work you should use pots that direct roots outside of the container wall.


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## DaveTheNewbie (Jan 24, 2012)

bump an old thread!
if i was to do the "bucket with holes inside another bucket" air pruning method, what would happen if i just left it in there and didnt take it out. sometimes its hard to get to plants in the back when theres retic hose everywhere.
also the option of "bucket with holes" WITHOUT a second bucket, did you find the evaporation unreasonable or just didnt try it? that would also work for me


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## monkeeboi69 (Jun 10, 2012)

wow im hella diggin this thread! good work! might look into trying this myself


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## hyroot (Jun 27, 2012)

Ive been using diy air grow bags for a while. I wanted air pots but to buy 30 of them gets a little expensive. I just take like 20 or so bags. Stack them up and fold them over. Then take my drill and spend about 10 min drilling holes and thats it. Works great. Plus when you run the drill bit in and out it creates sort of a cone shape kind of like air pots. Also after so many holes. The grow bags feel really soft and a little stetched out. Im probably going to grab som c.a.p. Pots. Their version of smart pots. Cheaper too.


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## WyoGrow (Jun 28, 2012)

http://www.amazon.com/Root-Pouch-Grow-Containers-RootPouch/dp/B0084NWYE0/ref=lh_ni_t

Gonna give these badboys a shot. If I don't like them for growing my medicine then I can always use them to get a early start on my tomatoes and peppers indoors.


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## hyroot (Jun 29, 2012)

WyoGrow said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Root-Pouch-Grow-Containers-RootPouch/dp/B0084NWYE0/ref=lh_ni_t
> 
> Gonna give these badboys a shot. If I don't like them for growing my medicine then I can always use them to get a early start on my tomatoes and peppers indoors.



Good find there


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## Str8KRACK (Aug 1, 2015)

Great breakdown of the air pots. To the T!!! I have been lucky enough to come across some very inexpensive root maker pots on ebay.


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## tightpockt (Aug 1, 2015)

I've just been using laundry baskets from the dollar store lined with gardening fabric, works awesome, they're a $1 and no drilling holes or any of that. Plus, the baskets usually have an inch or so to the bottom before the holes start so there's a little 'hempy' reservoir as well


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