# GRAFTING DIFFERENT STRAINS TO A MOTHER PLANT



## mainliner (Jul 30, 2014)

A FRIEND OF MINE HAS AN APPLE TREE AND HES GRAFTED ABOUT 5 DIFFERENT VARIETYS OF APPLES ON ONE TREE, EVERY YEAR THEY FRUIT AND THEY STAY DIFFERENT VARIETYS, QUITE AMAZING ACTUALLY, i was wondering if you can do this to a mother plant which is kept in veg, ?????


----------



## greasemonkeymann (Jul 30, 2014)

I know of nobody that has succeeded, many have tried. Myself included. Pretty sure the plant doesn't like it


----------



## mainliner (Jul 30, 2014)

greasemonkeymann said:


> I know of nobody that has succeeded, many have tried. Myself included. Pretty sure the plant doesn't like it


 maybe its because its not natural to keep it in veg? Some one may know a bit more?


----------



## greasemonkeymann (Jul 30, 2014)

probably the closest thing you could do would be to clone two plants together and put them in the same pot, if that's what you want. Honestly when I tried it, it was for fun, I can't really see an advantage of a grafted mother, unless you got like four strains grafted onto it.
Hell if ya figure THAT out, you'd need to move to a legal state and sell those bitches, make some dinero


----------



## greasemonkeymann (Jul 30, 2014)

mainliner said:


> maybe its because its not natural to keep it in veg? Some one may know a bit more?


 haha, ok, ask away then. Guess I don't know enough


----------



## Sativied (Jul 30, 2014)

I've seen examples of successful grafting of cannabis online. From a local forum:







Sometimes I get the feeling not everyone heard of Google yet so here you go: www.google.com. If you type something in that text box, it will list many webpages with that text on it. What's also cool is that you can search for images only... 'mazing huh. 

https://www.google.nl/search?q=grafting+cannabis - click Images results


----------



## BDOGKush (Jul 30, 2014)

Yes it can be done

Google marijuana grafting, first hit is a video on how to do it.


----------



## mainliner (Jul 30, 2014)




----------



## lilmafia513 (Jul 30, 2014)

Interesting, I was just discussing this with a friend last week. He has been in landscaping and nursery's for over 25+ years, and was explaining how they graft trees, like mentioned above, and it got my stoner brain thinking about grafting the strains i want to keep with limited space to house my mothers. i have about 6 strains, very small mothers, crammed under a 400 MH. if i could graft these strains to one plant in a pot, or even all 6 strains to 2 mothers in 2 pots. 
This plant never ceases to amaze me at what can be done with it...


----------



## Commander Strax (Jul 30, 2014)

what is causing the stain?


----------



## vostok (Jul 30, 2014)

*It is novel and they do make great gifts ...but in the time it takes I would do a lot of clones etc etc, is useful to join a female top to a male root if you can't clone too*


----------



## Commander Strax (Jul 30, 2014)

can I graft on a tomato plant? I love them little ones


----------



## mainliner (Jul 30, 2014)

lilmafia513 said:


> Interesting, I was just discussing this with a friend last week. He has been in landscaping and nursery's for over 25+ years, and was explaining how they graft trees, like mentioned above, and it got my stoner brain thinking about grafting the strains i want to keep with limited space to house my mothers. i have about 6 strains, very small mothers, crammed under a 400 MH. if i could graft these strains to one plant in a pot, or even all 6 strains to 2 mothers in 2 pots.
> This plant never ceases to amaze me at what can be done with it...


 that's excactly what i was thinking


----------



## LIBERTYCHICKEN (Jul 30, 2014)

I always wondered why indoor growers dont use more/any grafting , Once you have a fully established root system grafting a cutting to it makes alot of sense to me 

technicaly MJ can vedj almost indefinitely 

I also wondered why outdoor growers in medical states dont graft to getaround plant number laws ?


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jul 31, 2014)

What do you have to gain especially for an annual? I think many are missing the reason some of us graft (and I do a lot of it). It's to first identify a rootstock that unlike the scion has the predisposition to uptake nutrients and water that the scion is incapable of. I've grown about every kind of cannabis genotype out there and have NEVER found one that has an uptake, nutritional issue if grown correctly.

I graft citrus to a dwarfing rootstock called Flying Dragon which not only imparts cold hardiness but up to 60% dwarfing to the scion. I graft avocados sourcing the finest gourmet budwood from all over the world to a rootstock that will stand up to my super hard well water while performing extremely well for the scion regarding nutrition. My vineyard clones which are also the best from Italy, France, etc. are on a rootstock that imparts vigor, late budbreak, and loves our limey soil which pretty much negates chlorosis issues common to alkaline soils. See where I'm going with this?

Mainliner, you can't compare 5 scions grafted to one selected apple rootstock to cannabis. That apple rootstock has been developed, or selected if you will, over many years of observation and testing for certain purposes...... mainly for its dwarfing characteristics and resistance to certain pressures like root knot nematodes.

Apples and oranges...... 

Also, along with your friend's apple tree comes unexpected consequences the main one being one or more of the scions being dominant over some of the others.

Uncle Ben


----------



## lilmafia513 (Jul 31, 2014)

Uncle Ben said:


> What do you have to gain especially for an annual? I think many are missing the reason some of us graft (and I do a lot of it). It's to first identify a rootstock that unlike the scion has the predisposition to uptake nutrients and water that the scion is incapable of. I've grown about every kind of cannabis genotype out there and have NEVER found one that has an uptake, nutritional issue if grown correctly.
> 
> I graft citrus to a dwarfing rootstock called Flying Dragon which not only imparts cold hardiness but up to 60% dwarfing to the scion. I graft avocados sourcing the finest gourmet budwood from all over the world to a rootstock that will stand up to my super hard well water while performing extremely well for the scion regarding nutrition. My vineyard clones which are also the best from Italy, France, etc. are on a rootstock that imparts vigor, late budbreak, and loves our limey soil which pretty much negates chlorosis issues common to alkaline soils. See where I'm going with this?
> 
> ...


So, are you implying here that it would be a waste of time to graft several strains to one mother root zone, because it would eventually pull one strain characteristics to be more dominant anyway???
I honestly do not know, and am purely asking....for more knowledge. thank you


----------



## Tranquileyes (Jul 31, 2014)

I have read that cannabis and hops are so closely related, they can be grafter into each other, for whatever that's worth...


----------



## Sativied (Jul 31, 2014)

lilmafia513 said:


> So, are you implying here that it would be a waste of time to graft several strains to one mother root zone, because it would eventually pull one strain characteristics to be more dominant anyway???
> I honestly do not know, and am purely asking....for more knowledge. thank you


I don't think that's what UB meant with being dominant, grafting is not a means of transferring genetics. At least not directly. The DNA exchange is restricted to the contact zone between stock and scion, and not as far as between scions.


----------



## lilmafia513 (Jul 31, 2014)

Sativied said:


> I don't think that's what UB meant with being dominant, grafting is not a means of transferring genetics. At least not directly. The DNA exchange is restricted to the contact zone between stock and scion, and not as far as between scions.


Interesting!! Thanks for the response, Honestly i don't know what the stock or scion means either. Grafting is just something I have heard of until i read this post. my fantasy was to take 1 of my mothers, say my silver kush, and trim her a bit. At the same time, cut a clone the way i always do off of, lets say my Dinachem mother. Now take that dinachem clone and graft it to the spot i just trimmed off the silver kush.
In my head, this would allow me to have 2 strains in 1 pot space. Which is what we all want (More plants/strains in our limited space). Now if i do the same to my PPP and Shiva skunk, i now have 4 strains in the space of only 2. This allows me the room for 2 more pots, both holding 2 strains a pot.
I am not looking to cross genetics, or breed them in anyway. ONLY to possibly fix a space issue.

Do you think it would be possible to maintain the strains this way for ANY period of time? In theory you could do it to keep your outdoor strains going, while not cramping up space over winters indoors. Just some ideas that have been popping around my fuzzy brain lately LMAO

Lilmafia513


----------



## Sativied (Jul 31, 2014)

lilmafia513 said:


> Honestly i don't know what the stock or scion means either.


That's really simple, stock is the part with the roots, scion is what you graft on a stock.

As for your questions, I think it's an interesting technique but I don't see any value in it for MJ growers other than those with a plant count limit. If space is a limit and you really really want to put many different strains in the space, you could do a SoG 12/12 from seed and grow 1 cola per plant only. If you have a plant count limit by law of for example 1 plant, and you do like 1 grow per year and want to have some variation in what you end up smoking, then grafting could be an option.

Cannabis grows roots so fast I don't really see the point of it, as UB pointed out it's an annual, and the roots the plant produce during veg and transition are plenty to allow the plant to do its thing.

Imagine for example you grow outdoor only and the cannabis roots wouldn't be able to survive in your environment, but hop roots would remain unaffected by whatever the cause is, in such a case grafting them would make sense.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jul 31, 2014)

There is no transfer of genetics between rootstock and scion.

Yes, it is a waste of time in cannabis. I gave the reasons why folks graft.


----------



## Sativied (Jul 31, 2014)

Uncle Ben said:


> There is no transfer of genetics between rootstock and scion.


Technically there is, it's just restricted to the contact zone tissue.

_"In our previous work, we were able to prove that, contrary to the generally accepted dogma, there is horizontal gene transfer of chloroplast genes at the contact zone between igrafted plants," said lead researcher Ralph Bock._

From a piece about propagation without sex published 14th of June. If you take some tissue from the contact zone and use tissue culture to grow plants from it, it _can_ result in an actual cross of the stock and scion, allopolyploids even. Essentially using grafting as a more natural method of genetic modification...


----------



## Uncle Ben (Aug 1, 2014)

Interesting info. Am wondering how a rootstock can impart say...cold hardiness without messing with the taste of the fruit.

Let's put it this way - in the real world, of all the hundreds of grafted fruit trees, berries, grapes I and others have grown both on a personal and commercial basis, there has been no transfer of any genotype or phenotype between rootstock and scion. If there was, it would be worthless to graft. Most of the fruit from a certain rootstock is crap, that's why you choose a high quality scion to graft to it.

The cambium tissue bond is what you shoot for between rootstock and scion.


----------



## Sativied (Aug 1, 2014)

Uncle Ben said:


> Interesting info. Am wondering how a rootstock can impart say...cold hardiness without messing with the taste of the fruit.


"It" can't, but that goes for regular sexual transfer as well, selective breeding is something a breeder will still have to do as it's a very messy brute force way to mix the genetics. So it's not like a gene is isolated first and transferred individually of course, but, it does allow for crossing species that cannot be crossed using regular means.

_"When the scientists grew their new plants in the greenhouse, it became obvious that they combined characteristics of both progenitor species.
...
"Grafting two species and selecting for horizontal genome transfer could become an interesting method for breeders who could use this approach to create new crop plants with higher yields and improved properties," researchers concluded. ..."_
http://news.bioscholar.com/2014/06/plants-produce-species-sex.html

Cannahop...

There is indeed no phenotype transfer from stock to scion as that would mean it would transfer literally all the way into the scion and express the genetics as noticeable traits in the scion (rather than in the offspring). Doesn't make gene transfer restricted to the contact zone any less "real world" though. Well, only if "real world" is the equivalent of perception as that is what lead to the by now disproven assumption/belief that there's no DNA transfer.

More real world info:

_"To generate phylogenetic trees and investigate relationships between organisms, scientists usually look for similarities and differences in the DNA. Plant scientists were confounded by the fact that the DNA extracted from the plants’ green chloroplasts sometimes showed the greatest similarities when related species grew in the same area. Scientists have now discovered that a transfer of entire chloroplasts, or at least their genomes, can occur in contact zones between plants. Inter-species crossing is not necessary. The new chloroplast genome can even be handed down to the next generation and, thereby, give a plant with new traits. These findings are of great importance to the understanding of evolution as well as the breeding of new plant varieties."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/02/120201093100.htm

From 2009:
"Tissue grafting includes applications ranging from plant breeding to animal organ transplantation. Donor and recipient are generally believed to maintain their genetic integrity, in that the grafted tissues are joined but their genetic materials do not mix. We grafted tobacco plants from two transgenic lines carrying different marker and reporter genes in different cellular compartments, the nucleus and the plastid. Analysis of the graft sites revealed the frequent occurrence of cells harboring both antibiotic resistances and both fluorescent reporters. Our data demonstrate that plant grafting can result in the exchange of genetic information via either large DNA pieces or entire plastid genomes. This observation of novel combinations of genetic material has implications for grafting techniques and also provides a possible path for horizontal gene transfer."
....
"Grafting is widely used in plant breeding..."
http://www.hos.ufl.edu/sites/default/files/courses/hos6735c/Plant tissue grafts for class.pdf_

Like I said in my first reply:


Sativied said:


> I don't think that's what UB meant with being dominant, grafting is not a means of transferring genetics. At least not directly. The DNA exchange is restricted to the contact zone between stock and scion, and not as far as between scions.


----------



## mainliner (Aug 1, 2014)

lilmafia513 said:


> So, are you implying here that it would be a waste of time to graft several strains to one mother root zone, because it would eventually pull one strain characteristics to be more dominant anyway???
> I honestly do not know, and am purely asking....for more knowledge. thank you


that's called driffting i think and its only a danger if its left to flower,grafting multi srains to a mother has been done for decades, peolple can tell you all the technical jaggen about it and why it works or compare it to other things , but in my book ,,,,,as an eggs an egg , i works!!


----------



## mainliner (Aug 1, 2014)

well ,,ask a simple question?,,,lol thanks guys,,,,,,,o before i forget ,,, graft or no graft?


----------



## waterdawg (Aug 3, 2014)

I believe the answer is yup lol. But why bother is the consensus lol. Perhaps to make a really cool plant!


----------



## Old-School (Aug 17, 2014)

As a side note....
European grape vines were desimated by a disease in the root.

They successfully grafted their vines to American wild grape roots that were naturally imune to the disease and BAM....European wine industry saved.


----------



## anzohaze (Aug 24, 2014)

It works you have to cut down to the correct layer of cells in the tissues etc to work properly my friends great great grandad or somethin like that uncle maybe mwas rhe first to ever graft 2 different plants together. It hapoened in south carolina. Atlwast in usa and thats recorded


----------



## lilmafia513 (Aug 24, 2014)

Ok, so let me get this straight...........I can take a cut from my MOM, and graft it to, let's say, my rose bush and it will resprout in the spring???


----------



## mainliner (Aug 25, 2014)

lilmafia513 said:


> Ok, so let me get this straight...........I can take a cut from my MOM, and graft it to, let's say, my rose bush and it will resprout in the spring???


? Ask around


----------



## EverythingsHazy (Aug 25, 2014)

It works just fine. They plant will not "drift" or anything. If you graft properly, it will work just fine. 

Grafting two different varieties togetehr (species) is a different story. It can be done, but the plants vascular systems have to match up or it won't work. You can't put a cannabis plant on an orange tree, but you can put a lemon branch on one for sure. The connection part is almost like breeding. You can't cross two animals that arent genetically compatable and just get a chimera. You can cross certain ones tho and make things like a mule or liger, although since they aren't very genetically compatible even then, the animals are usually sterile, and often have to be artificially fertilized. Otherwise peopel would be putting cannabis on oak trees andhaving perennial monsters giving tons of bud every year lmao


----------



## GreatwhiteNorth (Aug 25, 2014)

If you add an "a" they already make those.


----------



## mainliner (Aug 25, 2014)

EverythingsHazy said:


> It works just fine. They plant will not "drift" or anything. If you graft properly, it will work just fine.
> 
> Grafting two different varieties togetehr (species) is a different story. It can be done, but the plants vascular systems have to match up or it won't work. You can't put a cannabis plant on an orange tree, but you can put a lemon branch on one for sure. The connection part is almost like breeding. You can't cross two animals that arent genetically compatable and just get a chimera. You can cross certain ones tho and make things like a mule or liger, although since they aren't very genetically compatible even then, the animals are usually sterile, and often have to be artificially fertilized. Otherwise peopel would be putting cannabis on oak trees andhaving perennial monsters giving tons of bud every year lmao


 where's my "" fuckin really like's "" button?? Lol


----------



## lilmafia513 (Aug 27, 2014)

very nice info.....i will look into this more


----------

