# Co2 Extracted Concentrait.



## andrewq (Jul 4, 2011)

hello everyone I have a 5 pounds of trim from my uncle up north and I was wondering how I can do Co2 extacted wax and hash because my friend recently had some nitro co2 og wax and he threw some of that stuff on skillet fo me and two skillet tokes I was damn faded. And I heard co2 extacted has no metals unlike butane


----------



## 808toker (Jul 5, 2011)

andrewq said:


> hello everyone I have a 5 pounds of trim from my uncle up north and I was wondering how I can do Co2 extacted wax and hash because my friend recently had some nitro co2 og wax and he threw some of that stuff on skillet fo me and two skillet tokes I was damn faded. And I heard co2 extacted has no metals unlike butane


Well you would have to build your own supercritical co2 extraction chamber and compress and heat the co2 utill it turns into a liquid then run that liquid through your herb and collect that ad evaporite the co2 out like bho....not worth the work....make bubble hash waaaaaaaaaay better imo then aaallll other concentrates...except maybe keif is the shit too. oil is too unnatural to me...and it sky rockets your tolerance


----------



## zhn0k (Jul 5, 2011)

here's a c02 extractor someone was selling for $25,000

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f118/co2-extractor-sale-25435/


----------



## WattSaver (Jul 7, 2011)

Buy yourself a 120 micron screen, ( http://www.victoryfactory.com/aluminum.htm ) freeze the bag of swag and spend a few days sifting


----------



## Haze2C (Jul 10, 2011)

Ya buddy! I don't add anything to my sweet goodness. tumble sift and smoke my friends


----------



## oilmkr420 (Jan 24, 2012)

andrewq said:


> hello everyone I have a 5 pounds of trim from my uncle up north and I was wondering how I can do Co2 extacted wax and hash because my friend recently had some nitro co2 og wax and he threw some of that stuff on skillet fo me and two skillet tokes I was damn faded. And I heard co2 extacted has no metals unlike butane


bro im sorry it took like a year to post a how to video on youtube. it can be done and i have all the recipies for an array of oils, waxes, concentrates. co2 is the shit. it cost less, yields more, potency is noticably enhanced, cleaner, fresher taste, etc. 5 lbs would take about 500 lbs of co2 to completely extract all delta 9 thc from it. not ideal for trimmings as you would want it done on flower extract instead. its cool to learn on trim, but buds is where oil making is really at. you can hit me up for any scf needs you may have in the near future, as times are changing along w peoples preference for clean product.


----------



## oilmkr420 (Jan 24, 2012)

thats pretty tight, but idk about 25,000 bucks worth. my systems start about $300 and up. depending on vessel size. youtube "420 honey oil extraction co2"


----------



## Guile (Jan 25, 2012)

Check out:
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/463979-oxygen-co2-hash-2.html#post6996489
and tell me if that would work for a supercritical co2 extraction chamber.. I have never built one so it is just speculative at this point...

I think I was looking for this very sort of thing not long ago, if it looks promising to some of you experienced guys I might give it a try...


----------



## oilmkr420 (Jan 25, 2012)

Guile said:


> Check out:
> https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/463979-oxygen-co2-hash-2.html#post6996489
> and tell me if that would work for a supercritical co2 extraction chamber.. I have never built one so it is just speculative at this point...
> 
> I think I was looking for this very sort of thing not long ago, if it looks promising to some of you experienced guys I might give it a try...


Forget all the extra stuff u mentioned, just use the tank as a reaction chamber. Fill tank w crushed dry ice, near the top add like half a pound of ground trim, thread the valve back on. I throw my vessel in a pool in case of mishap. Check out my video youtube 420 honey oil extraction co2. That's my small scale I learned from and scaled it up since. I love co2 extractions. Way funner.


----------



## Guile (Jan 25, 2012)

oilmkr420 said:


> Forget all the extra stuff u mentioned, just use the tank as a reaction chamber. Fill tank w crushed dry ice, near the top add like half a pound of ground trim, thread the valve back on. I throw my vessel in a pool in case of mishap. Check out my video youtube 420 honey oil extraction co2. That's my small scale I learned from and scaled it up since. I love co2 extractions. Way funner.


Wouldn't there be an advantage to keeping the CO2 liquid and warm throughout the entire extraction process? I also kind of see the large pipe cap opening at the top as a useful feature (if nothing else) simply because it would make ir easier to fill/empty.. 

It would also seem that with your scuba tank setup could experience some really low temperatures that might alter its integrity, with my design everything above the shut off valve should remain warm (assuming you continue to apply pressure as you slowly drain the tank through the valve underneath).. The 2500-3000psi safety burst disk seems kinda nice too (peace of mind you know)...


----------



## oilmkr420 (Jan 25, 2012)

That's the temp we max out @. So you can vary the fill amount to vary temp up 2 149 degrees, but obey max psi. A tank bursting in our face would kill you and anyone near could also be killed. I'm desiegning a scfe rated at 10,000 psi and safety features are a must. Pressure relief valves, check valves, rupture disks are some that will be included in case 1 fails I have a back up plan ready. The vessels weaken at 350 degreese f. Co2xtrations don't go above 149 degrees.


Guile said:


> Check out:
> https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/463979-oxygen-co2-hash-2.html#post6996489
> and tell me if that would work for a supercritical co2 extraction chamber.. I have never built one so it is just speculative at this point...
> 
> I think I was looking for this very sort of thing not long ago, if it looks promising to some of you experienced guys I might give it a try...


----------



## Guile (Jan 26, 2012)

oilmkr420 said:


> That's the temp we max out @. So you can vary the fill amount to vary temp up 2 149 degrees, but obey max psi. A tank bursting in our face would kill you and anyone near could also be killed. I'm desiegning a scfe rated at 10,000 psi and safety features are a must. Pressure relief valves, check valves, rupture disks are some that will be included in case 1 fails I have a back up plan ready. The vessels weaken at 350 degreese f. Co2xtrations don't go above 149 degrees.


What do you find to be the best ratio of trim to dry ice? I was originally thinking that you might want to favor the ice but we are only need to create a slurry right? so half the volume of trimmings would probably do right?


----------



## oilmkr420 (Jan 26, 2012)

5 lbs dry ice : 28 grams of pot is excellent. the process be repeatable to further extract what wasnt extracted the 1st time.


----------



## oilmkr420 (Jan 26, 2012)

there is 45 grams of ethanol added to that formula.


----------



## oilmkr420 (Jan 26, 2012)

wtf i didnt reply in this quote.


808toker said:


> Well you would have to build your own supercritical co2 extraction chamber and compress and heat the co2 utill it turns into a liquid then run that liquid through your herb and collect that ad evaporite the co2 out like bho....not worth the work....make bubble hash waaaaaaaaaay better imo then aaallll other concentrates...except maybe keif is the shit too. oil is too unnatural to me...and it sky rockets your tolerance


not true, i smoke alot of co2 extracts, flower extracts not scrap trim. i tell you bob marley smoked 2 joints, i got it down to 1/4 joint- then im toast. ive been smoking heavy co2 concentrates since ive been extracting w co2 over a year ago.


----------



## oilmkr420 (Jan 27, 2012)

Subcritical is a more selective extraction. I favor this method over scfe because its stoneyer. Scfe is done for yields over potency. Practice till its always as you expect it, and get good at trimmings. When u got it down try a 1/4 ounce of flower tops. Way better than trimmings.cosub2 can be done w an argon tank packed to 3,000 psi @ 70 degrees farhenhiet. When you get about 1/2 tank, then you have pressure space available and can raise the temp to a supercritical region on standby ready to release any sudden spikes of 500 psi or more.


----------



## oilmkr420 (Jan 27, 2012)

There are several main advantages using co2 as a solvent. I dont mean jacking off a bubble bag either. Using it as a solvent in this instance means to put it through dynamic changes. Whem the co2 starts its life as a solid gas, we then pressurize a vessel and it becomes a subcritical liquid which I prefer to be carried out at in a swimming pool at about 65-75 degrees farhenhiet from 12-24 hrs. In case shit hits the fan, we want the swimming pool to absorb most of the impact of the explosion. I've never done my math incorrectly to where I've used the pool as a impact absorber rather than a water bathe. So if heat were applied at a stable room temperature, you could further heat it useing a washer machine or large trash cans with hot water from the fosset. Have a gauge and be on standby to relieve any sudden spikes or increases to max psi. This would be a Supercritical Fluid Extraction (scfe)co2. it furthermore went through changes and became a supercritical fluid. When we release the pressure it will revert back into a snow, different than the parent snow. So the main reasons i feel its green uses are more than just trendy are cost. At $1.30 a lbs at smart"n"final, I get co2 way less suspisiously than buying 10-12 cans of butane. Also, the FDA states co2 as a direct food ingredient making it even more desirable to use. In fact, the solvents I use to extract are so gentle, at worst case senario, if ingested they would be a little drunk. So I went from chemical extractions to food grade extractions. No fire precautions, and I fire em up while I extract, too!!! Fast turnaround times. More importantly is the potency of the product. So much so, i willingly pepsi challenge any other extractions w confidence. I had told someone once to try the wax I made, he told me it looked like I wiped my ass with it. So I brought him some stuff that looked discharged from his vagina!! Golden yellow. He blushed and I'm sure felt all wet down there!!! theres other reasons but those are just some of the more important ones. will edit when I'm not so stuck on stupid.


----------



## Guile (Jan 27, 2012)

Local to me dry ice sells for $30-$35 per 50Lbs, blocks are (10"x10"x11" ) otherwise "nuggets" are available for the same price 60-70 cents a pound (assuming quantity's of 50lbs or more)'

I roughly figure (biased on the info here) that you can pull 2 extractions out of a QP (112gr) of trim using 50lbs of dry ice ($35 worth). Half the dry ice (25lbs) and 1 cup ethanol? for each pass..

If you were to use a 4" sch 40 steel pipe it would need to be atleast 6' long to accommodate this volume (perhaps a bit more depending on how fine your "nuggets" are).

You have convinced me that the Nitrox is unnecessary. (to be honest I had a brain fart earlier worrying about sub critical temperatures inside the vessel from gassing off during the extraction, but I'm not stoned yet today and see how silly that was) it seems only the pressure gauge from a nitrox tank (4500psi) and the burst valve from a Co2 tank (2500-3000psi) would be required (so you know in advance if you need to take cover) Also the small shut off valve of course. The hardest part will be drilling and tapping the holes..

Swimming pools and warm temperatures aren't as common up this end of things so I have a feeling the heat tape and some sort of thermostat would be necessary (otherwise converting an old gas hot water heater might work).



oilmkr420 said:


> there is 45 grams of ethanol added to that formula.


45 grams at 0.789 grams per milliliter would equal 57 milliliters, almost 2 ounces or 1/4 cup (for each oz of trim?)
Why the ethanol though? Why so much? Does it make for a less selective extraction?

This is just surprising the way I'm seeing it, after an initial investment of $200 (or less) you could be processing your trimmings for under $5 an oz... You could even make multiple extraction vestals and process a pound (or more) at a time using a single converted water heater.


----------



## oilmkr420 (Jan 27, 2012)

ethyl alcohol is used for two reasons. first to cover the non-targeted areas co2 doesnt cover fatty acid of methyl esthers (fame). second it is used for taste preservation. Its used all over in extractions for scents and flavors. you really want everclear or moonshine75%-100% ethyl alcohol, 200 proof if possable. with cosub2 i never woory about rupturing anything because i use a co2 tank 20 cf and comply with its capabilities. i put 5 lbs exactly + 2% alcohol is 46 grams of co-solvent. known yellow product formula. believe that stray away and youll start crossing light green oil @ like 5% needing treatment w activated charcoal and diatomatious earth. to absorb impurities and filter microbials to decoloration. 


Guile said:


> Local to me dry ice sells for $30-$35 per 50Lbs, blocks are (10"x10"x11" ) otherwise "nuggets" are available for the same price 60-70 cents a pound (assuming quantity's of 50lbs or more)'
> 
> I roughly figure (biased on the info here) that you can pull 2 extractions out of a QP (112gr) of trim using 50lbs of dry ice ($35 worth). Half the dry ice (25lbs) and 1 cup ethanol? for each pass..
> 
> ...


----------



## oilmkr420 (Jan 27, 2012)

dont ever drill holes into a pressure vessel. those holes, those would be threads, all weaken the integrity of the vessel. steel is better than aluminum and ive found 2,000 - 3,000 psi very effective in removing thc. long resident time between maxtrix and scf is much better than rushing the extraction in a ten minute interval. i like 12-24 hrs, at a stable room temperature is really where its at. so theres different processes for co2 extractions. coffee, ginkoba, nicotine, chilles, all have a different extraction process and different pressures they willingly release their goods. i have pulled three extractions off the same plant matter and when someone thought my herb was spent, i showed how much was still in there. i have done 16% yields this way. nice yields. dont make things complicated w trying to engineer something laid out so simple. cga valves have burst disks. just use a 20cf tank or bigger and fill it w the same amount of dry ice as it would hold liquid co2. your safe @ room temp and i believe up to 152 degrees, may want to double check that, may be 120 degrees farenhiet.


----------



## oilmkr420 (Jan 27, 2012)

@ 25 lbs you will use 232 grams of ethanol. dont forget to decarboxylate your plant matter first 140 degrees c for half an hour 284 degrees f.


----------



## oilmkr420 (Jan 29, 2012)

i am now a paypal member if anyone wants an instuctional dvd and pressure vessel, they can hit me up by e-mail [email protected] and i will be getting some newer equipment soon as im almost out of stock now. but have much more savings to offer than $25,000 usd. you could expect all the pros that other systems final product has to offer, but its manual operation vs computer automated, has big advantages besides cost. very mobile as i can extract anywhere.


----------



## oilmkr420 (Jan 30, 2012)

oilmkr420 said:


> ethyl alcohol is used for two reasons. first to cover the non-targeted areas co2 doesnt cover fatty acid of methyl esthers (fame). second it is used for taste preservation. Its used all over in extractions for scents and flavors. you really want everclear or moonshine75%-100% ethyl alcohol, 200 proof if possable. with cosub2 i never woory about rupturing anything because i use a co2 tank 20 cf and comply with its capabilities. i put 5 lbs exactly + 2% alcohol is 46 grams of co-solvent. known yellow product formula. believe that stray away and youll start crossing light green oil @ like 5% needing treatment w activated charcoal and diatomatious earth. to absorb impurities and filter microbials to decoloration.


forget the pot. this equation is based upon how much dry ice yr using. 2% co-solvent means 2% of the solvents weight. that averages out to 9.08 grams per pound.


----------



## morfin56 (Jan 31, 2012)

I don't see how with 6 mods in this section, this thread has managed to stayed here. 
This is the advanced cultivation section isn't it?
I'm not knocking on your thread in anyway, who's ever this is, I'm sure its a good thread.
Also its not just your thread, there are misplaced and multiple threads of the same topic every where!
Come on RIU your not what you used to be.
You need new mods, and these boards need to be cleaned and organized really badly!

Did it just get so out of control here that the mods just decided to let things go?


----------



## Guile (Feb 1, 2012)

morfin56 said:


> I don't see how with 6 mods in this section, this thread has managed to stayed here.
> This is the advanced cultivation section isn't it?
> I'm not knocking on your thread in anyway, who's ever this is, I'm sure its a good thread.
> Also its not just your thread, there are misplaced and multiple threads of the same topic every where!
> ...


I admit that I would have expected to find this in a different aria too, but the last time I went looking around and asking questions there nobody gave me as much to think about as this guy did with this idea... Its something worth consideration to some people brave enough to tread into the "advanced" forum.. 

I second that it should get copped into its appropriate aria but mostly because people around there might find this interesting too. It kinda bites that the guy is selling something though...


----------



## oilmkr420 (Feb 1, 2012)

Bites? I would have loved to buy this product from someone. I looked and couldn't find anything. That bites. So instead I made something for people to buy from me or obtain there own. I gave the recipe in so many posts and its really no secret. I found all the info and its was an easy affordable thing that anyone can do.


----------



## Guile (Feb 1, 2012)

oilmkr420 said:


> Bites? I would have loved to buy this product from someone. I looked and couldn't find anything. That bites. So instead I made something for people to buy from me or obtain there own. I gave the recipe in so many posts and its really no secret. I found all the info and its was an easy affordable thing that anyone can do.


I'm not trying to be an ass.. I think its wicked cool that you are fortifying your local economy and providing a convenient source of information..

I just have a thing about trusting sales men (the best products sell themselves, salesmen exist to offset the balance)... Obviously its not personal, I don't even know you, and you seem alright from what little I've gathered..

Just be who you are, and do your own thing.. Don't let my skepticism be a concern of yours... Screw what other people think of you (even if it is me)...


----------



## Hemlock (Feb 1, 2012)

808toker said:


> Well you would have to build your own supercritical co2 extraction chamber and compress and heat the co2 utill it turns into a liquid then run that liquid through your herb and collect that ad evaporite the co2 out like bho....not worth the work....make bubble hash waaaaaaaaaay better imo then aaallll other concentrates...except maybe keif is the shit too. oil is too unnatural to me...and it sky rockets your tolerance


DAMN this dude is smart


----------



## Hemlock (Feb 1, 2012)

morfin56 said:


> I don't see how with 6 mods in this section, this thread has managed to stayed here.
> This is the advanced cultivation section isn't it?
> I'm not knocking on your thread in anyway, who's ever this is, I'm sure its a good thread.
> Also its not just your thread, there are misplaced and multiple threads of the same topic every where!
> ...


Whos gives a shit..LOL damn man come on.. smoke a joint


----------



## oilmkr420 (Feb 1, 2012)

I've always done things that made me happy regaurdless of what anyone else thought or thinks. So I just got my 2nd horse, another baby 2 1/2 years old. So we go into the city into non-horse town where we work people by either painting a curbside address or pictures of kids on her back. People not interested don't even get pestered as I'm bogged down w people who are. So I try to provide for us, cuz like anyone else, need to eat.


----------



## 808toker (Feb 1, 2012)

Hemlock said:


> DAMN this dude is smart


 Thank you


----------



## 808toker (Feb 1, 2012)

oilmkr420 said:


> There are several main advantages using co2 as a solvent. I dont mean jacking off a bubble bag either. Using it as a solvent in this instance means to put it through dynamic changes. Whem the co2 starts its life as a solid gas, we then pressurize a vessel and it becomes a subcritical liquid which I prefer to be carried out at in a swimming pool at about 65-75 degrees farhenhiet from 12-24 hrs. In case shit hits the fan, we want the swimming pool to absorb most of the impact of the explosion. I've never done my math incorrectly to where I've used the pool as a impact absorber rather than a water bathe. So if heat were applied at a stable room temperature, you could further heat it useing a washer machine or large trash cans with hot water from the fosset. Have a gauge and be on standby to relieve any sudden spikes or increases to max psi. This would be a Supercritical Fluid Extraction (scfe)co2. it furthermore went through changes and became a supercritical fluid. When we release the pressure it will revert back into a snow, different than the parent snow. So the main reasons i feel its green uses are more than just trendy are cost. At $1.30 a lbs at smart"n"final, I get co2 way less suspisiously than buying 10-12 cans of butane. Also, the FDA states co2 as a direct food ingredient making it even more desirable to use. In fact, the solvents I use to extract are so gentle, at worst case senario, if ingested they would be a little drunk. So I went from chemical extractions to food grade extractions. No fire precautions, and I fire em up while I extract, too!!! Fast turnaround times. More importantly is the potency of the product. So much so, i willingly pepsi challenge any other extractions w confidence. I had told someone once to try the wax I made, he told me it looked like I wiped my ass with it. So I brought him some stuff that looked discharged from his vagina!! Golden yellow. He blushed and I'm sure felt all wet down there!!! theres other reasons but those are just some of the more important ones. will edit when I'm not so stuck on stupid.


Please teach me how to do this....


----------



## Guile (Feb 3, 2012)

Hey dude, have you ever considered making a closed circuit phase change system? I mean you could use the refrigeration compressor out of some appliances to achieve the kind of pressures that Co2 needs to go "supercritical".. The thing is that your system will naturally want to reach those pressures anyway (as your dry ice gasses off) so all you really need to do is create the right pressure difference at the right spots. 
Depending on how you build it, it might even work as a dehumidifier to some extent. 
Though I worry about refrigeration oil getting where you don't want it, maybe you could use a different lubricant, (like grape seed oil or something)


----------



## morfin56 (Feb 4, 2012)

Guile said:


> I mean you could use the refrigeration compressor out of some appliances to achieve the kind of pressures that Co2 needs to go "critical" (or sub critical)..


You need A LOT of pressure to make Co2 supercritical.
The tubing and the compressor would literally explode if it had that much pressure in it.
If i remember correctly it takes something like 70 atm which is something like 1000 psi to make Co2 into a super critical liquid.
THIS IS VERY DANGEROUS AND NO WAY YOU WILL MAKE A SUPERCRITICAL LIQUID FROM CO2 WITH YOUR GHETTO RIG.

On the otherhand making Co2 into just LIQUID which is what is used to make Co2 extracts requires much less heat and pressure, say around 300-400psi,
achievable by a fridge compressor if you know what your doing.


----------



## Guile (Feb 4, 2012)

morfin56 said:


> You need A LOT of pressure to make Co2 supercritical.
> Chances are you don't even know what it means to make Co2 super critical,
> the tubing and the compressor would literally explode if it had that much pressure in it.
> If i remember correctly it takes something like 70 atm which is something like 1000 psi to make Co2 into a super critical liquid.
> ...


My understanding of "super-critical" is when Co2 is compressed to pressures above 1100psi @ temperatures above 90F... Admittedly I was getting the impression that dry ice could reach that while confined... (Using the pressure gauge and temperature control)

Everything I have described or discussed so far deals with those circumstances directly... I'll go look into temperatures again....

I just verified my information and I'm fairly confident at this point that if one of us is mistaken its unlikely to be me... I have dealt with Co2 at these temperatures/pressures so I might even have some applicable experience..

Additionally if you look into the materials I describe (or take my word for it) you would see that they are technically (by the general rules that govern these sorts of things) within "safe" margins. 

The degree of caution I suggest in regularly measuring your chamber is not "technically" necessary I just threw that bit in for people who are either very cautious or just poorly informed, i.e.: using me as their sole/exclusive reference (If I'm going to think for other people, I want them to think reasonably smart).

If you are going to come off superior, try being superior first...
If you have valuable insight or references to share, please offer them up with your opinion...


----------



## morfin56 (Feb 4, 2012)

I don't offer my opinion, I'm telling you fact.
I major in chemistry at TN tech and I am damn sure of what I'm talking about.
If you know anything you'll go look up a phase diagram of Co2 and correct yourself..

http://files.myopera.com/nielsol/blog/CO2_phase_diagram.jpg

1 bar = 14.5 psi
kelvin - 273 = degrees Celsius

You might have experience with something like your homemade rig but obviously no experience with actual supercritical Co2 units and recirculating Co2 systems

Sorry, this is sorta unfair trying to match your knowledge with mine as I'm a professional.


----------



## Guile (Feb 4, 2012)

morfin56 said:


> I don't offer my opinion, I'm telling you fact.
> I major in chemistry at TN tech and I am damn sure of what I'm talking about.
> If you know anything you'll go look up a phase diagram of Co2 and correct yourself..
> 
> ...


Nice picture... Where did you get it (Wikipedia)? You know any idiot can edit that site right? (that's want all the little "edit" links are all about). beyond that 300 Kelvin is only 80.33F (according to your own equation that you misunderstand, 300K _*minus*_ 273 equals 27c or 80.6F, either way its still under 90F).

Here is one from me and a link to some actual information...

Atm refers to atmosphere so 73 atm would be 1072.804262psi (under 1100psi)
31c is equal to 87.8F (under 90F)

See its the red zone in the upper right of the picture, that's what we are aiming for. The right hand is the one that doesn't make the "L" for "left" when you extend your thumbs (palms down). By the way if you are a professional in this field, you are clearly overplayed... (I can talk condescendingly to people too.. Doing us any good?)



The statement that supercritical Co2 is Co2 confined at a pressure above 1100psi @ temperatures above 90F seems to hold true....


----------



## morfin56 (Feb 4, 2012)

If you didn't notice our diagrams show the same exact thing except yours is atm/celsius and mine is bar/kelvin.
No not every page can be edited on wiki, some pages are protected and the ones that are protected are the ones with proven true information.
The link I gave to that phase diagram is clearly not from wiki, if you had looked at the bar at the top of the browser you would have been able to see that.

The point I was trying to make was about the fact the your fridge compressor can not reach 1100 psi.

At first you didn't even know what a super critical liquid was as you were calling it sub critical, your welcome for the fucking knowledge.

But by all means put your dry ice in enclosed metal container and heat it to 90F. Good luck.


Guile said:


> Admittedly I was getting the impression that dry ice could teach that while confined... (Using the pressure gauge and temperature control)


----------



## Guile (Feb 4, 2012)

morfin56 said:


> If you didn't notice our diagrams show the same exact thing except yours is atm/celsius and mine is bar/kelvin.
> No not every page can be edited on wiki, some pages are protected and the ones that are protected are the ones with proven true information.
> The link I gave to that phase diagram is clearly not from wiki, if you had looked at the bar at the top of the browser you would have been able to see that.
> 
> ...


subcritical was a typo (been corrected), but seemed to relay the idea given the context (and the fact that I don't claim this as my aria of expertise), Though I do apologize of my poor writing... 

I also offered information with my picture (as apposed to just a picture without any contest) and clearly understand both examples offered as I was able to point out the error in *your* temperature conversion understanding. (which of course indicated _*your*_ lack of understanding dealing with supercritical Co2, otherwise you would have realized _*your*_ temperatures were off by nearly 550 degrees Celsius or nearly 1000 degrees Fahrenheit)

Everything I have discussed here has dealt with pressures of 1200psi and temperatures of 90F (did you read any of this before commenting on it?).

You questioned my understanding of supercritical Co2, its clear that I was not the one who was mistaken (only really leaves one other option)

Only certain refrigeration compressors can build pressures over 1000psi. Obviously I cant list them for you but here is an example of the general idea

Additionally there are compressors made specifically for R-744 (_CO2_) _refrigeration_

Lastly Co2 is often confined and subjected to temperatures of 90F (or more) . Didn't you have a Co2 powered BB gun as a kid? Didn't you ever carry an extra Co2 cartridge in your pocket on a warm summer day? (how about paintball guns?) You mean to tell me that you think half the 10-14 year old boys in my aria are running around with eminent doom in their pockets all summer long?

You are not going to flounder your way into looking any better so how about if you eat a little humble pie and address people with a reasonable amount of respect in the future? (You wouldn't have been outed as talking well over your own head if we just addressed each other with a reasonable amount of respect to start with).

I'll bet it stings a little..... Being shown up in your "field of expertise" by an idiot hick who makes ghetto contraptions out of junk... Sorry for that.... 
By the way that's called field expedient, and it can pay damn good when you're consulting/operating as an on site engineer (but you have to be flexible enough to deal with issues in more than just one "specialty" aria).


----------



## morfin56 (Feb 4, 2012)

Im sorry, I was drunk earlier and (was being a smart ass) added instead of subtracted which led to the wrong temperature.
Anyways someone (like me) will put dry ice in a metal container that is not nearly strong enough and heat it up a little resulting in an explosion.
My explanation for Co2 canisters not exploding in pockets? 
They are only like 37% liquid and the rest gas, also made of high grade aluminum,
Not only that but they certain rupture points to vent in the case of high temps increasing pressure to much.
If you put dry ice into a less then ideal container, which someone might try, it will explode.
Only thing is I've done it on purpose, and if someone were next to that they would have been blown to pieces.

Sorry for being a dick.


----------



## Guile (Feb 5, 2012)

morfin56 said:


> Im sorry, I was drunk earlier and (was being a smart ass) added instead of subtracted which led to the wrong temperature.
> Anyways someone (like me) will put dry ice in a metal container that is not nearly strong enough and heat it up a little resulting in an explosion.
> My explanation for Co2 canisters not exploding in pockets?
> They are only like 37% liquid and the rest gas, also made of high grade aluminum,
> ...


Thanks man... Hope you know my rudeness was strictly superficial, I hate being an ass (but you have to stand up for yourself/others once in a while, otherwise you come off as a pushover).

I looked into the working and burst pressures of the pipes I was speculating about using, they are within technically safe limits for the pressures we would be working with using Co2. 

Keep in mind that we are talking about using dry ice "nuggets" (as they are sold locally to me) so it would be nearly impossible to fill the entire volume of your pipe with solid Co2 (at the most 75% assuming they were perfect identical spheres) .. Its kind of like filling a pipe with marbles, there will be plenty of gas space (voids) left inside (like your Co2 cartridge). Besides I never advocated filling the pipe more than 1/2-2/3 full of dry ice nuggets as the density of unconfined dry ice is about 2-3 times that of liquid at the temperatures and pressures we have discussed, meaning the liquid it should take up around twice the volume @ 1100psi and 90F if I'm not mistaken. As long as your vessel is less than half fill of solid Co2 (or 3/4 full of nuggets) you should have sufficient space to avoid pressure issues as the solid converts to a gas.

I have advocated using the "burst disks" from Co2 tanks for safety purposes, they have a failure point between 2500-3000psi which is high but only around twice the working pressure and half the burst pressure of the pipe I suggested using to make your vessel...

I'm not advocating to anyone to do anything on blind faith in my word.. Only offering the information needed to begin their own independent research/development.. Always double check the specifications of your components (then triple check)..

I think the biggest concern would be that the unconfined density of dry ice is around 1.562 g/mL.
At the critical point of Co2: 31.3C (88.34F) @ 72.8 bar (1056psi) density is 0.467g/ml (about 1/3 as much as dry ice). 
As pressure increases so does density however as temperature increases density lowers (making volume and temperature key considerations)
If you don't account for the space necessary to accommodate the volume of liquid Co2 (at temperature) your pressures could rise exponentially leading to containment failure.

Hope you didn't wake up with a hangover, and that you are having a good weekend...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
looks like at around 1300psi & 100c (212F) Co2 will have a density around 0.2g/ml 
At around the same pressures but 32c (90F) Co2 will have a density around 0.7g/ml

looks like at around 1100psi & 100c (212F)Co2 density will be around 0.15g/ml
At around the same pressures but 32c (90F) Co2 will have a density around 0.6g/ml 

Using those figures as guides you can figure out how much dry ice is safe to put into your pressure vessel.. 

For instance if you used a 4" sch 40 pipe 6 foot long it would have a volume of around 900 cubic inches (about 14750 cubic centimeters). If you wanted to heat it to 100C @ 1100psi you could only fit in 0.15 grams dry ice per cc/ml giving you about 2,200 grams (about 4.75lbs) of dry ice..

However, using the same chamber If you wanted to heat it to 32C @ 1300psi you could only fit in 0.7 grams dry ice per cc/ml giving you 10,000 grams (about 22lbs) of dry ice. This is in the ballpark of my last idea before considering phase change systems, however one could be built around this vessel as a condenser/high pressure reservoir. Obviously you would need a compressor and evaporator/catch container for your extracts (the rest is just pluming, gauges and valves).

By the way, brake lines and fittings are made to handle these kinds of pressures (double flare everything for good measure). 

These are all estimates and best guesses... I would still recommend doing more research and adding Co2 tank burst disks, not to mention every bit of care/caution you can muster if you plan to try this.



The second drawing depicts a setup that allows you to continually recycle your Co2 by diverting it into a second extraction chamber while refilling the first (such a system would not need the addition of dry ice with every batch of trim)...


----------



## Guile (Feb 7, 2012)

Remember when you were a kid and people said "anything is possible" then you grew up disappointed because you couldn't just do whatever you wanted... 

The world didn't change (other than the progress of time), your perspective did... 

There's a "right" (meaning legal/safe) way to do anything... _*Anything *_as log as you aren't hurting anybody (just be creative/resourceful)..

You know the saddest thing about that Waco Texas incident is that it was all over a couple permits (taxes) that he didn't file for.... That is no shit, we (our government, the "people" who represent "us") were there because we believed they had "unregistered" weapons biased on a sound heard coming from their property.... That's the impression I got anyway.. The thing is, even if he (David Koresh) were a convicted felon he could have machine guns there if he "incorporated" his "church" and filed for the permits that way. 

We live in a very free country... But uncle Sam takes his tribute (Taxes) very seriously Unless you're a corporation ofcourse... Think of the moonshiners on TV, that's about taxes too, and we used an unavailable Tax stamp to keep marijuana "outlawed" so to speak. Al Capone was taken down over taxes (that was the worst he did in our eyes)... If we just started issuing the stupid pot stamp it would be beneficial all around.. Think of the tribute..... Think of the freedom...

The biggest difference between organized government and organized crime is simply a matter of who is making the laws... Gang leaders are technically political revolutionary's if you think about it, why do you think we pursue them with such interest (we don't want to destabilize the current government).. Currently speaking "we" make the laws (or elect the people who do).. So we have say in things like corporate freedoms and responsibility as well as things like taxes and reasonable law enforcement.

Sorry about the rant, I'm a little stoned.....


----------



## oilmkr420 (Feb 8, 2012)

my first rig was a oxygen vessel rated at 2100 psi, and unknown cf probably about2.5 lbs tank or 10cf. I always liked the gauge for reliability, and ease of use coupled w an digital thermometer. then i thought saftey and compromised a gauge for a burst disk and i knew it was gunna blew, so all i could do was recover what was still being exshausted from the burst disk. but rather than speed up production, i prefer to just throw it in a large trash can, pool, or washing machine, if you really wanted protection, one could burry it in the ground and wait? jk no i havent the foggiest how to get the 2% mole, since all my scientific research was tainted from the begining with my american scientific scale. yes thats right, gallons, pounds, and ounces, psi, etc. vs liters, grams, kilos, bar, etc. so if you want it in english, its your lucky day as im fluent in american. but if you want scientific explanations, you asked king of backyarders. idk about alot of formulas you write about, but the math is law, and dont lie. so i got some new vessels today w gauge and ruture disks. best of both worlds. i even got a soxhlet extractor, and two supply vessels rated at 6,000 psi near 480 bar. now thats some pressure w needle valves up to 30,000 psi smooth as sin.s so heres some numbers for you. 3,500 kg #5 co2 tank 1800 psi max, 7 lbs of crushed dry ice was put into the vessel. at 70F degrees, what would your absolute pressure be? what would your gauge pressure be? co2 has 44.01 g mole and a vapor pressure of 846psi i do believe. can you shoot me the answer? i want to know. thanks.


----------



## oilmkr420 (Feb 8, 2012)

so my personal w-4 is of interest to you? fuck you if your getting anymore formulas that work from me again. figure that shit on your own, or search back onmy posts and try from their. thank you for not buying technical info from me as i now am not giving that shit away anymore. good luck in the dark w no real starting point.


----------

