# Organic Growing Made Easy & Fox Farms Ocean Forest!



## Sincerely420 (Nov 7, 2012)

Hi All, 
Happy 11/7/12 to those of you in Washington St. and Colorado!
I'm somewhat of a newbie, but not totally as I've done my fair part of lurking on these forums without an account, and reading different books, and online articles..Mainly all the different forums..
Anyhow I decided to post here as I found it to be quite informative in comparison to a lot of the other forums..
So anyhow, just a brief hello to all of you, as well as a THANK YOU for any future and/or prior advice

So.....

I'm starting with a thread regarding Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil. I'd like to discuss/share the different way that you guys have used, or are using Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil, with or without success.
And I'll be starting with my own recipe, which begins with Fox Farm Ocean Forest, but is slightly amended, and will be allowed to cycle or "cook/compost/whatever" for a month, prior to using it.

If you've used Fox Farm Ocean Forest, or are planning on using it, I welcome you to comment.
It's all love and wealth of knowledge here.

BUT! Enough of the intro.

I have mixed in a 5 gallon grow bag the following parts, of which we be the final home for my Feminized White Widow Seeds:

-4 gallons* Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil
-2 1/2 quarts* Chunky Perlite (soil already has a good bit of perlite in it)
-1 tablespoon* Hi-Cal lime (figured it would be a bit of a PH buffer in addition the FFOF Oyster Shells, but didn't want to go overboard)
-2 quarts* Earth Worm Castings (Provide bacteria and help supplement Nitrogen production for the plants)
-1/4cup* Espoma Tomato Tone 3-4-6 (mainly to provide a little extra N-P-K across the board)
-1/2cup* Algamin Kelp Meal 1-0-2 (mainly for trace elements)
-1/4cup*Espoma Greensand (mainly for water retention as I added extra perlite).

This^^soil mix I currently have sitting in a 5 gallon grow bag, but I've yet to moisten it, until I can add:
-1 quart Gia Green Glacial Rock Dust.
After adding the rock dust to the soil, I'll water it down, let it sit for a month and then consider it a job!

Given this soil mix of very slight amended Fox Farm Ocean Forest, what do you guy think!
Amazon tracking says my rock dust should be here tomorrow, so I'll mix it in then..but what do you guys think.
See anything I'm missing in this soil? Anything I need more of?

#IpreferKingSizedSlims


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## Sincerely420 (Nov 8, 2012)

166 views....0 replies...Well then.

I got my rock dust. Went ahead and added two and a half cups...
And we'll call it a day


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## The Mantis (Nov 8, 2012)

hey man - lots of peeps on here use ffof. i did for my first grows. using containers inside and out and i prob bought over 20 bags of it. i ammended it too with my own compost the last year and have since mixed it with some local made soil and some soil from my yard. it all works. i'm not into measuring too much or mixing or testing ph/balance. it just has the right feel to me and more simply put - it's what i have to work with. if it looks too hot when starting, just flush it with bunch of big waterings. 

good luck.


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## bioWheel (Nov 8, 2012)

What's the runoff PH of straight FFOF vs your mixture? How much did you boost the PH with your additions?


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## whitey78 (Nov 10, 2012)

I usually add about a tbs of lime per gallon of soil mix, I've never used hi-cal, I use dolomite or something similar to dolomite.... Also, I dont use just ocean forest, I mix it with happy frog in a bag to bag ratio.....I am having a brain fart so I cant figure out the measurements in quarts but I usually add about 6 cups of EWC's to a bag of soil, more is usually not better but with EWC's its not gonna hurt unless you go way overboard..... I think the mix of ocean forest which is coir based and the happy frog which is peat based gives an overall better base than either of them alone..... good job on the perlite as well, definitely need that, again not able to picture the amounts but realize that the more you add the more often you are going to water, you need some but not too much...... rice hulls are a good alternative. Dont go too crazy with the glacial rock dust, I use azomite instead of that and it can easily cause salt build up if you use too much..... I add a 1/2 cup of azomite to a batch of soil that contains 8 bags of soil (supersoil)..... so be careful with that stuff....


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## TheNaturalist (Nov 11, 2012)

5 parts ffof
2 parts perlite (of the large grain variety)
1 part ewc
a sprinkle of bat guano
a dash of Mykos

I try to keep it relatively simple and its been working great for me so far.


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## Sincerely420 (Dec 23, 2012)

Nice to see you guys managed to keep this bit productive while I was AWOL 
I've been on somewhat a learning curve. Bouncing around different forums and websites...learning. 
Not to mention all the books I've been able to get a hold of. It's been a swell journey!
All the way from getting my seeds from Attitude, to mixing my soil, to constructing my makeshift grow space.

Went with the soil mix above and found out A LOT about *rock dust* along the way.
Most essentially, *ANY soil mix is not complete without it.*

I've seen nothing but happy green from my soil mix 30 days in, so *I'd recommend Fox Farm Ocean Forest* and adding a variety of amendments totaling *2-3 cups per the ENTIRE SOIL MIX(7.5Gal)*, which should then be cycles for at least a few weeks
*Rock dust* *should be added at any where from 2-4 cups per the ENTIRE SOIL MIX*. I say this because I added 2 1/2 per my mix, when others I've seen are thriving have adding 4 a majority of the time. I mixed smaller amount because I use a little less soil that 7.5Gals


_-Off topic, tho informative rant-_
_But LONG story short, I spent a lot of time posting at another forum, and had a buddy I let in on my plans to grow get into some trouble.
Given the situation, I went ahead and changed it all up. New place, new everything.
I know a guy who got caught growing 16 plants a 3 years back. Call him John
I met John last year about this time, and since then hes shown me pics of everything that there was and given me some books to boot. During the time I went to see John(I've ceased contact), he'd always had a fresh stash, but never around. Come to find out, he'd move everything to the next person.
Well John owes 60k still. Said he'll never be able to pay it The wet weight of 15 flowering plants and a mother landed him those fines(in a state that not yet legal albeit).
When I asked John how he got caught...A long time friend of his got stopped and had a personal stash on him that he'd just obtained from John.
You know what happens next..Officers smells it, the friend wigs out, and John is cut down just to get out of a small marijuana ticket(<1/2oz).
I say all this just to stress safety I guess. Our passion for what we're doing could result in some serious collateral damage(even in legal states), so be weary of EVERYTHING if this is the path you've chosen.
Hopefully I've done enough to ensure that_.

*GET SOME ROCK DUST AND MIX IT IN *


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## drolove (Dec 23, 2012)

i used half fox farm and half perlite with some added dolomite like and used fox farms line up of nutes. moved on to better things though..


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## Sincerely420 (Dec 23, 2012)

Please do elaborate Mr. G.


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## intenseneal (Dec 24, 2012)

I use FFOF and Happy Frog straight out of the bag. Green lush happy plants and no need to use veg nutes.


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## medical/420 (Dec 24, 2012)

I mix Ocean forest 50/50 with pRO-MIX BX. best of both worlds.


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## Sincerely420 (Dec 24, 2012)

intenseneal said:


> I use FFOF and Happy Frog straight out of the bag. Green lush happy plants and no need to use veg nutes.


Thx for the reply! And good to hear that FFOF is working for you as well. I've heard tho, a lot of pple mix the ocean forest and the happy frog 1:1 and get great results also! Some say the the FFOF is to hot, so they cut it so they can use it right away.
But I'm with the cycling program.* Let it sit for 3weeks to a month and water once/twice a week while turning occasionally. That was they microbes have had some time to convert everything to plant food!*
Like you Neal, all is green on my end


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## Sincerely420 (Dec 24, 2012)

medical/420 said:


> I mix Ocean forest 50/50 with pRO-MIX BX. best of both worlds.


Been reading a lot about Promix as well as Roots Organic M420..*The amended FFOF that I'm using right now is doing WORK*, but I'm def. wanted to experiment with everything until I find exactly what I wanna use! 
*Do you amend that mix of use it straight out of the bag?*


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## denots19 (Jan 17, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> 166 views....0 replies...Well then.
> 
> I got my rock dust. Went ahead and added two and a half cups...
> And we'll call it a day



Quick question is that the same as rock phosphate?


Thanks

Denots #PPP


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 17, 2013)

Not the same bro. Check out my sig.

I can't really get it locally and didn't wanna order it and wait this time, so I went with azomite instead.
You can order it from Amazon tho. 

Try-> http://www.amazon.com/Gaia-Green-Glacial-Rock-Dust/dp/B006K4HSZK/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1358447220&sr=8-4&keywords=rock+dust
I can vouch for it.
_______________
This time I'm using -> http://www.amazon.com/10-Lbs-Azomite-Additive-Fertilizer/dp/B0081GP2LW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1358447220&sr=8-2&keywords=rock+dust
instead
_______________


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 17, 2013)

*Soil mixed up for the next run(as of 1/17/2013)
I used:

-1.5cubic feet Fox Farm Ocean Forest
-38cups Wiggle Worms Earthworm Casting (1-0-0)
-10cups Perlite(may add more eventually)
-11tsp Rooters Mycorrhizae
*Soil Base
__________________________
-1.5cups Indonesian Hi-P Bat Guano (.5-13-.2)
-1.5cups Algamin Kelp Meal (1-0-2)
-1.5cups Espoma Tomato Tone (3-4-6)
*Nutritional Amendments
__________________________
-1.5cups Azomite(used as a rock dust)
-0.5cup Espoma Green sand 
-1.25cups Hi-Cal Lime
*Mineral Amendments
__________________________

To finish it all up, I watered it with a gallon of water! Now to let it sit for a good 3 weeks to a month!

This mix is a little heavier amended(more in total nutritional amendment) than my current mix, and I used Azomite instead of rock dust, so that I wouldn't have to order it!
I also added mycos to this mix. I didn't treat the soil that my current girls are growing in with mycos, so the Azomite and the mycos are the variables this time around, as well as more food..About a 1.5cup more in total!

*edit..Also tested my soil PH at 6.5 fresh outta bag, not yet amended.*


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## brownEs (Jan 20, 2013)

sencerely420- Good info! are you using this mix without any additional nutes along the way? also this mix good to use from the seed to flowering stages? im about to head out to my local green thumb and source this stuff out for my first grow..!


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 20, 2013)

Appreciates BrownEs!

I am indeed using this mix without any nutes from seed to flowering!
I do however use AACT(actively aerated compost teas) which are made from the amendments that I have left over from the soil mix.
Get ahold of a book called *Teaming With Microbes* if you can.
*Also...The following is one of the BEST READS THAT I'VE EVER COME ACROSS regarding building a good soil..*

-> http://forum.grasscity.com/organic-growing/1116550-easy-organic-soil-mix-beginners.html

Take your time and get to know what you're doing before you add anything if you choose to do so.
It helps to know what it takes to make a good soil when you plan on it. FFOF out of the bag is a complete soil, I just don't know how long it'll last without amending it.

If you copy my mix and let it sit for 3weeks before you use it, you'll be good from start to finish. Water only.
But you should get to know these AACTs.

It'll help you understand Organic gardening in an easy to read fashion. It'll also help explain what AACTs are.
But if you make a good enough soil you plants will have a CONSTANT supply of nourishment for your plants.

*You'll save a WHOLE LOT of headaches by planning ahead just a little bit.
*
Imagine how fast a baby would grow if it could eat whenever it wanted to.


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## brownEs (Jan 20, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Appreciates BrownEs!
> 
> I am indeed using this mix without any nutes from seed to flowering!
> I do however use AACT(actively aerated compost teas) which are made from the amendments that I have left over from the soil mix.
> ...


thanks brother! not to many peeps in the forums are willing to help out a newbie, didnt make it to my local green thumb( garden supply store), from the list i only found the FFOF and perlite. youre right about taking my time, honestly ive been rushing trying to finish my cab. so i can stick some plants in it asap. i need to slow down and get some more education on this stuff.


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 20, 2013)

No prob bra. I'm still a newbie myself really. And you'll be good to start off in that FFOF and perlite. 
Just water it and let it sit for a couple weeks before you use it.
Some say it can be "hot" out of the bag so I'd let it cycle to be safe. I always to.
Good luck bro


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## medical/420 (Jan 21, 2013)

I like a 50/50 mix of FFOF and Promix, that way the roots can have alittle food, but not tomuch so the roots keep growing and spreading trying to find more food. after a couple weeks of just water, i give them a worm casting tea.


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 21, 2013)

medical/420 said:


> I like a 50/50 mix of FFOF and Promix, that way the roots can have alittle food, but not tomuch so the roots keep growing and spreading trying to find more food. after a couple weeks of just water, i give them a worm casting tea.


With my first mix from above I first saw yellowing about 45 days into the grow, so I added a little more food to the second batch which I just made.
How about you tho M420? When do you first get yellowing when using you mix? And I mean yellowing suggesting an N def. which is prob always the first thing to tail off.

From my understanding, the bag of FFOF should be a good months feed right? Maybe a couple weeks more but IDK.
I also use AACTs. I bubble by the gal with a 10gal fish tank pump.
I've switched my mix and added Bat Guano on the regular now, and soil as compost material rather than EWCs, to avoid the bacterial dominance of the teas.
The only thing I've got on hand to provide fungi is the kelp meal and soil...so I use those in combination with Neptunes Harvest Liquid Fish and a Hi-P Bat Guano.
Can't forget the Molasses 
Gonna try the Banana Peels also in a couple waterings.
Read some nice things about it's K boost here.

But yeah hows the soil mix worked out so far??

*edit-Also, no perlite? How the drainage? I never thought not to add more just to be safe than sorry ya know..
But if it works without....it's save me some cash


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## Mysticwolf (Jan 22, 2013)

Sincerely 420,
Thanks so much for a great post, which I believe could easily be sticky'd! I know a good deal of folks use Subcool's super mix, which is awesome, but it's great to see other ideas as well. I was planning on using FFOF straight on my new project, but now I think I'll give your mix a whirl!* Thanks again!*


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 22, 2013)

Hey no prob Mystic! 
i know a lot of ppl use the super soil on here too lol but I can't be arsed.
I'm getting great results from my first mix lad, so I know this second one will be a killer and even better!
*The best part is that it's a water only and AACTs from time to time mix!*

*Make SURE you water it and let it sit for a bit so that it can cycle for a while. Like 3 weeks to a month.
This will ENSURE that you DON'T burn your seedlings!!!*

*Even if you end up using it just outta the bag...Water it and let it sit for a bit beforehand. This is called letting your soil "cook".*
The way I see it tho.....growing this way is dope....If you focus on making a good soil for your plants....the best you can make....
And then put them into that mix....They will thrive!
*Like I said, imagine the baby that gets to eat everytime it's hungry compared to the baby that's fed on a schedule...*

*If you take a LITTLE time to plan ahead, you'll save yourself EVERY headache in the first couple months that you can imagine haha*
Good luck bro


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## brownEs (Jan 22, 2013)

how much did you spend? im estamating around $150. sound about right?


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 22, 2013)

Lets say something like that...BUT all the amendments you buy will last for a few grows. Atleast 4-5 grows.
With those amendments you make ACTs, which are basically like making your own bottled nutes.

This is the link to my local shop and what I got and what it cost:

http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/organic-gardening-soil-ammendments

http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/algamin-kelp-meal-5lb/dp/2714 <-*Kelp Meal(last a few grows per bag)*

http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/neptunes-fish/dp/11671 <-*Liquid Fish(last a few grows per bottle)
*
http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/worm-castings-wiggle-worm-white-30lb/dp/4810 <-*EWCs x2(you'll use a lot of these. A bag might last a grow or two)*

http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/hi-cal-lime-fifth-season-pulverized-5-lb/dp/2349
<-*Hi Cal Lime(small thing lasts a few grows)*

http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/azomite-micronizer-fifth-season-5-lb/dp/282<-*Azomite(small thing lasts a few grows)*

http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/ocean-forest-1-5-cu-ft/dp/3250 <-*FFOF(I use x1 1.5cu ft bag per soil mix and have bought 2 bags to date)*

http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/rooters-mycorrhizae-1lb/dp/3794 <-*Mycos(One thing 
lasts a few grows)*

http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/perlite-20-qt/dp/3393<-* Perlite(I've bought a couple of these)*
_________

Prices of everything I have(soil wise) are there. I get the smallest of everything except soil and earthworm castings. You'll need a good amount of both..
But as far as everything else....Get the smallest quantites and they'll last you a few grows...

*Amazon is good for all the things you need too(soil amendment wise).
I had to get my Bat Guano and my rock dust from Amazon, and my green sand and tomato tone from a local nursery.*

I also got a small 10 gal fish tank pump to bubble my teas with from Amazon, and called it a day.


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## Mysticwolf (Jan 23, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Appreciates BrownEs!
> 
> I am indeed using this mix without any nutes from seed to flowering!
> I do however use AACT(actively aerated compost teas) which are made from the amendments that I have left over from the soil mix.
> ...


Wow,That is a great article Sincerely. Thanks so uch. I am now seriously considering your latest variation on the mix as opposed to straight FFOF.Ill look for the book as well!


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## supchaka (Jan 23, 2013)

I use happy frog and ocean forest, I mix each with 25% perlite. I use the happy frog in party cups for seedlings, clones and then they get transplanted into ocean forest around 2-3 weeks. I give no nutes until I'm actually in flower.


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 23, 2013)

Mysticwolf said:


> Wow,That is a great article Sincerely. Thanks so uch. I am now seriously considering your latest variation on the mix as opposed to straight FFOF.Ill look for the book as well!


Never a prob bro! Works for me, so I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work for anyone else! Good luck bro, you got this


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 23, 2013)

supchaka said:


> I use happy frog and ocean forest, I mix each with 25% perlite. I use the happy frog in party cups for seedlings, clones and then they get transplanted into ocean forest around 2-3 weeks. I give no nutes until I'm actually in flower.


That's wassup bro! 
*I was wondering how long it lasted on it own ya know?*
Glad you added your 2cents!
*But simply judging by what's in the bag, I have no doubt in my mind that you could use it water only until flowering!
Lots of things our plants like!*

And I was gonna look into the Happy Frog this go around, but I figured I'd build off of this grows results ya know?
So I kept it constant with FFOF. 
*I'm using my first mix from the OP with my seedlings too bro, and they seem to love it.
No burn, just green. And possibly some added vigor.*
*And I'll ALWAYS vouch for the added 25% perlite just to be safe. I'm not sure whether or not if it needs it...I just know it's better off with..*

*Also bro, what kinda nutes are you using with the FFOF?*


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## Kill a Watt (Jan 23, 2013)

i like to take a fat dump on my soil mix. it adds an extra umph to it


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 23, 2013)

Kill a Watt said:


> i like to take a fat dump on my soil mix. it adds an extra umph to it


*I wouldn't smoke my shit.* And I like to live clean. I garden on carpet.
Thanks for the waste of time and space lol. I wouldn't create an account just to say shit like that..
But that just me.

Stay classy


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## brownEs (Jan 23, 2013)

Kill a Watt said:


> i like to take a fat dump on my soil mix. it adds an extra umph to it


theres always one in the group..


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## supchaka (Jan 23, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> That's wassup bro!
> *I was wondering how long it lasted on it own ya know?*
> Glad you added your 2cents!
> *But simply judging by what's in the bag, I have no doubt in my mind that you could use it water only until flowering!
> ...


I use Botanicare nutes. Their organic soil ones. Im currently using some samples of mendocino avalanche and humic acid although normally i dont add anything else but molasses and the flower nute.


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 24, 2013)

That's wassup lad.

I'm seeing all green when I look at you "current shit" so I would vouch for what you're doing!
I don't have a good knowledge of bottles nutes tho, as I'm totally organic w/ a water only soil, so when any questions flow in regarding the use of FFOF with bottled nutes, hopefully you can take care of them! Good stuff tho bro. 
I'll get thru your journal today to see what your at with everything!
Appreciate ya brother


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## inspiredgardener (Jan 25, 2013)

This has really made me want to play in the soil  Great postings! I can't wait to reread it and absorb. 

I use FFOF...have never amended the soil before (would loove to start trying tho!) I actually supplement with Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Soil in Veg and PB Bloom in flowering. 

I have to say...I've noticed in a lot of my grows that my fan leaves try to yellow too early so I'm thinking I need to do something different to the soil to prevent this. 

You've been very informative.


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 25, 2013)

inspiredgardener said:


> This has really made me want to play in the soil  Great postings! I can't wait to reread it and absorb.
> 
> I use FFOF...have never amended the soil before (would loove to start trying tho!) I actually supplement with Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Soil in Veg and PB Bloom in flowering.
> 
> ...



Nice!
You've also chipped in with this bit too so thank you! I'm sure someone will benefit from knowing how you use you're FFOF.
There ain't one way to do everything lol...sadly some ppl here just don't get that...but oh we'll right?, I'm no one to try and change set minds! I just try an make things visible for them lol.

and you right on about the N. Its always the first to go given what we grow haha...so I just bring up some befor I pot into it ya know? Supplementing the FFOF. Making it better in my own way ya know?!
BUT do know that the salts in Chemical nutes kills the soil slowly, so to have a truly effect soil ecosystem, u gotta eschew the chemicals!
idk what the nutes u listed are, so I assumed they're chemical..if they're not, you still get my example I'm sure! GL!
I too am an inspired gardener! Welcome to RIU! There are some good souls here haha u just gotta seek em out!


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## inspiredgardener (Jan 25, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Nice!
> You've also chipped in with this bit too so thank you! I'm sure someone will benefit from knowing how you use you're FFOF.
> There ain't one way to do everything lol...sadly some ppl here just don't get that...but oh we'll right?, I'm no one to try and change set minds! I just try an make things visible for them lol.
> 
> ...


Yea, some people get SO riled up just because they disagree about dif growing methods. I like to read A LOT and spread out the reading to different materials to try to take what I like from each  Marijuana is my religion  haha. 



> The Pure Blend Pro Series includes all natural and organic-based, one part base nutrient formulas optimally blended for desired nutrition in each phase of growth. While Pure Blend Pro Grow provides accelerated vegetative growth, Pure Blend Pro Bloom and Pro Soil allow fruits and flowers to flourish.


got that from their site...

I don't want to rely just on the soil the way I've got it though. That's why I like how detailed you got about amending your soil. There's nothing worse than tasting chems ewwww  I flush...use to flush for two weeks, but I'm thinking of cutting it down to a week. 

Oh yea- I can tell you are an inspired gardener! I'm looking forward to reading your grow journal all the way through


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## Sincerely420 (Jan 25, 2013)

Nice! I appreciate ur kindness! We got work to do! 
And I'm def. with you on apply what I like and what works for me.
I've followed that rule of thumb in life in general to this point and its been a ride!


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 2, 2013)

Just some descent info I pulled from the book, Organic Gardening For Dummies. 

Some decent stuff regarding the biology of the soil and explaining the difference between the way that organic and chemical or synthetic nutes work.
Also some good info regarding amendments and conditioning the soil


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 2, 2013)

An interesting diagram depicting the cycle of nature.
Relative info abound!


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 2, 2013)

One thing I've learned so far is that there isn't one perfect soil for any plant, but a well built soil will can produce a perfect plant!
There are SOOOOO many ways to get from point A to B when building your soil!
I do this because I figure its up to up to build off of each others results.

I've posted the soil mix that I'm using and the results are available to be seen via my sig.
I've currently mixed up a second batch and will be able to review it sometime this summer.
Meanwhile I learn


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 3, 2013)

Helps Me to learn by reading things again and again


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 3, 2013)

Give your plants the buffet treatment! Set em up with an all you can eat soil and let them get as FAT as they want to


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## Relaxed (Feb 6, 2013)

- 2 gals. FFOF / 1/2gal. Perlite / 1 oz. domalite lime per gal. soil
-amend soil every 3weeks till chop with a heaping spoonful of sunleaves seabird guano. Normalwater pattern ph 6.2-6.5. Nothing more and green till chop&#8230;.. oh, last amend 3 weeks till chop. simple repeatable pattern cause I have other things to do in life....


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 6, 2013)

Nice relaxed! I appreciate the input! 
Green till chop, water only......You can't beat that!


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 6, 2013)

Nice relaxed! I appreciate the input! 
Green till chop, water only......You can't beat that! 

Ps, do you cycle it before use or use it straight outta the bag?


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## Relaxed (Feb 6, 2013)

straight out of the bag. Does just fine with seedlings in this mix. also, reuse the soil as well. Just ad some more perlite and an oz of lime per gallon of soil as well as a tablespoon of seabird guano for clones etc. a lot of these organic guys go way overboard...imo just to make them feel good about doing something organic.


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 6, 2013)

Nice bro. And IDK about the guys going way overboard lol, there's just that many different things you can put together to produce the same result ya know?
The word is that diversity is what we're after in the soil, so applying different things to add NPK, minerals, and micronutes to the soil seems to be more like an art to me ya know?

BUT if you can get by and produce good results with the bare minimum, why not right?
I'm still looking for a the perfect combination of things to add...I'll be experimenting for the next 10 years I'm sure lol.

*But yeah man, there's just TOO MANY WAYS to do this*


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 6, 2013)




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## Sincerely420 (Feb 6, 2013)

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][/FONT]


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 8, 2013)

Just cracked a new book and thought the intro was worth a share


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 8, 2013)




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## Sincerely420 (Feb 8, 2013)




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## SOMEBEECH (Feb 9, 2013)

Azomite® is a fine alkaline (pH 8.0) volcanic mineral powder with a wide spectrum of minerals, trace elements, and monatomic elements (aka, ORMUS) used for remineralizing soils and as an inexpensive, high quality nutritional supplement for livestock. It can be added to fermented plant and animal foods to increase mineral content; microbes will make the minerals more bioavailable.

Azomite is a silica clay mined in Utah that came from ancient volcanic eruptions that deposited ash in a nearby lake bed. The area later over time was submerged under the ocean and had hundreds of rivers flowing into it, depositing even more ORMUS-rich minerals. Volcanoes, ocean water, and river water are high sources of ORMUS elements. This is a unique source of high ORMUS minerals found nowhere else in the world. 

Minerals In Azomite®
In a typical chemical assay, AZOMITE® contains more than 70 trace minerals which include many rare earth elements (lanthanides). Many of these elements have been depleted from soils worldwide. See the complete typical analysis of AZOMITE® to the left. In animals, AZOMITE has been shown in scientific studies to bind some mycotoxins typically found in animal feed as well as improving Average Daily Gain (ADG), Feed Conversion Ratio (FCR), and reducing mortality rates even in the absence of any mycotoxins. There is speculation that the presence of approximately 70 trace minerals may be the reason for these results, and may improve the health of animals who ingest the product.Damn


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## trichome fiend (Feb 9, 2013)

...I've grown with the FFOF many of times, thought I'd give some input 
...I simply transplant clones into a small pot (16oz) for 2-4 weeks of veg.... then transplant into a 3 gallon pot at the time of flowering....give water only all the way through the grow....quality bud guaranteed.


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 9, 2013)

SOMEBEECH said:


> Azomite® is a fine alkaline (pH 8.0) volcanic mineral powder with a wide spectrum of minerals, trace elements, and monatomic elements (aka, ORMUS) used for remineralizing soils and as an inexpensive, high quality nutritional supplement for livestock. It can be added to fermented plant and animal foods to increase mineral content; microbes will make the minerals more bioavailable.
> 
> Azomite is a silica clay mined in Utah that came from ancient volcanic eruptions that deposited ash in a nearby lake bed. The area later over time was submerged under the ocean and had hundreds of rivers flowing into it, depositing even more ORMUS-rich minerals. Volcanoes, ocean water, and river water are high sources of ORMUS elements. This is a unique source of high ORMUS minerals found nowhere else in the world.
> 
> ...


Thanks Capn


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 9, 2013)

trichome fiend said:


> ...I've grown with the FFOF many of times, thought I'd give some input
> ...I simply transplant clones into a small pot (16oz) for 2-4 weeks of veg.... then transplant into a 3 gallon pot at the time of flowering....give water only all the way through the grow....quality bud guaranteed.


Thanks for the input bro!
*The first mix from the OP is what growing I'm in right now*, while my second mix awaits the next operation.
But with that said,* I'm 33 days into 12/12 with that first mix, and I'm seeing my girls yellow before my eyes from the bottom up.*
VERY slowly, but gradually. *I know that's natural yeah(Senescence), but I was hoping to keep everything green for another couple of weeks off of the strength of my soil mix.* 
I figured even tho I'm growing organic, if the N is available and can be used, it will be. And if the plants doesn't wanna use it, it will remain in the soil ecosytem. *But again I'm stuck on senescence at this point. Any input on Senescence?* I didn't think I'd be looking at yellowing until wk 7 or 8 given the fact that I've amended my soil.

*And I've used AACT's 3 out of every 4 waterings since I've started, and I've top dressed occasionally with EWCs, Kelp Meal, and Hi P Bat Guano, 
in attempt to constantly inoculate the soil and add to it as much as I can.*
After all that I've done I thought for sure I would be able to keep things greener longer but but the flowering yellowing is setting it..
*Now with that said, how do you make thru 2 months plus on what's in the bag? *

I wonder how many years it'll take me to find that balance between quantity and quality.
And I've check a few of your posts out so I know your full info bro, so pardon my bombarding you with questions.
Cheers for the post boss


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## trichome fiend (Feb 9, 2013)

...what I've found is, it's the plant size/pot size ratio that determines how far along you'll get before your plants start to go deficient, not to mention your light source, exc...if all is "optimal" as they say, a guy could run an 8 week strain from clone with little to no veg (straight to flowering) in a 3 gallon pot with no problem until near harvest, just giving water throughout the whole grow...but, a sativa dom clone straight to flowering in a 3 gallon pot would probably need a transplant to stay attractive...a transplant around weeks 3-4 into a 5 gallon for sativa doms (9-10 wks) does ggggreat! 

...if I wanted to veg my plant longer, I'd obviously end up with a much larger pot in the end.....I've found with organics, growing indoors, in containers...the answer is always, "transplant!"...if you do not have a good transplant technique to reduce the stress, you could slightly stunt your plant size, so be careful and always do your final transplant early on in flowering.

...I keep the organics indoors boring easy!...I don't even hit'em with an aact nor top-dress anymore  ...  dankx for the kind words.


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 9, 2013)

Nice post again bro. I don't see why not keep it as simple as possible if it works ya know?!
Thanks for the share tho. I'm sure someone else will see the thread and try your method out!
And you're the second person to preach to me regarding numerous transplants, so I'll def. be utilizing the technique bro.

And your soil food web thread is holding strong bro! Good work with it!
In regards to this thread, I just wanted to stock pile a bunch of info regarding organic soil and put it all in one spot ya know?
I figure a lot of "noobs" like myself that wanna go Organics will end up doing what I did, which is amending an already bagged soil to avoid making one completely from scratch.

Nice to know that you don't have to do a thing with it if you don't want to tho, and you can still get good results.

Dankx for your share brother. 

^^^^I'm stealing that one lol! I hope you don't mind


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## SOMEBEECH (Feb 10, 2013)

trichome fiend said:


> ...what I've found is, it's the plant size/pot size ratio that determines how far along you'll get before your plants start to go deficient, not to mention your light source, exc...if all is "optimal" as they say, a guy could run an 8 week strain from clone with little to no veg (straight to flowering) in a 3 gallon pot with no problem until near harvest, just giving water throughout the whole grow...but, a sativa dom clone straight to flowering in a 3 gallon pot would probably need a transplant to stay attractive...a transplant around weeks 3-4 into a 5 gallon for sativa doms (9-10 wks) does ggggreat!
> 
> ...if I wanted to veg my plant longer, I'd obviously end up with a much larger pot in the end.....I've found with organics, growing indoors, in containers...the answer is always, "transplant!"...if you do not have a good transplant technique to reduce the stress, you could slightly stunt your plant size, so be careful and always do your final transplant early on in flowering.
> 
> ...I keep the organics indoors boring easy!...I don't even hit'em with an aact nor top-dress anymore  ...  dankx for the kind words.


Firm believer in Transplants.When i do cuts,seeds I start in a 16oz Solo cup,Then to a 3g smart pot love em,Then to there final home a 5g, 2 weeks before flip to allow for shock just in case I disturb rootmass.


Beech


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 10, 2013)

Nice Capn. *What do you think about going from solo to 1 gal to 3 gal?* My next run I'm not gonna only veg for maybe 3wks max.
I've grown fond of using the grow bags to because I can cut them off very easily during transplant which mean no damaged roots, and a root mass in one solid ball. Grow bags come like 10 for $5 so they're cheap. I'm gonna get a couple 3 gal smart pots to finish in.
*Do you think with only 21 days veg, the difference btwn a 3gal and a 5gal plant would be worth going into 5gal pots?*

And its dope right?! Trichome Fiends method of using no nutes, but rather to transplant to replenish the soil and provide a new supply with untapped nute source.
*I'm the be safe rather than sorry type tho, and I also plan to reuse my soil at least once*, so amended it and re-amending it, as well as constantly giving teas has been my forte, in attempt to constantly replenish and add life to the soil given the fact that microbes either die or are consumed constantly.


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## SOMEBEECH (Feb 10, 2013)

Imo, Yea, with tht short a vegg you should be fine,for sure in a Smart pot.


Beech


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 11, 2013)

Brew AACTs! Add life to your soil ecosystem with each inoculation


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## SOMEBEECH (Feb 12, 2013)

*So I can read it,lol




*


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 12, 2013)

I'll blow them up from this point forward cap'n


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## SOMEBEECH (Feb 12, 2013)

Now im confused I tht you didnt want Soil to dry tht much because it would kill alot of the good bennies.......

Beech


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 12, 2013)

SOMEBEECH said:


> Now im confused I tht you didnt want Soil to dry tht much because it would kill alot of the good bennies.......
> 
> Beech


It's about find that "sweet spot" cap'n. Not too dry, but dry enough to allow the roots to get their oxygen fix and continue to search for moisture and grow as well. From all I've learned so far, it's best to catch you plant right before it wilts, rather than letting it show it's thirst. 
My "big 3" have all wilted maybe twice and my "smalls" just wilted for this first time this week after 4 days without water, so I'll drop it down to 3 and so fourth so on


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## SOMEBEECH (Feb 12, 2013)

Oh yea, Thanks for the Book!!

Beech


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 12, 2013)

SOMEBEECH said:


> Oh yea, Thanks for the Book!!
> 
> Beech


Your welcome Sir


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 15, 2013)

http://www.dirtdoctor.com/faq.php


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 17, 2013)

http://microbeorganics.com/


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## j.p.s.w (Feb 19, 2013)

Awesome stuff guys! I got so inspired to use Pure Blend Pro Grow. I grow using Ocean Forest and recently just started curing my 2nd harvest, heres a link if you like:https://www.rollitup.org/organics/626327-2nd-led-harvest.html. I have been wanting to use Nutrients during flowering to add that boost and am really glad I found the all natural solution, to both veg and flower at that. I am also going to brew tea once the soil starts drying, great read!


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 19, 2013)

That's wassup bro! It's def. the most worry free way to grow! Best wishes with you man! I'll check you journal out too!
And are you using just plain FFOF..Right outta the bag?!


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## j.p.s.w (Feb 19, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> That's wassup bro! It's def. the most worry free way to grow! Best wishes with you man! I'll check you journal out too!
> And are you using just plain FFOF..Right outta the bag?!


 Thanks a lot! 

and yeah, outta the bag and no added anything. Except, now that I saw the light, I am going to add Botanicare Pure Blend Soil Kit to see how much burst I get from them  Thanks for the wishes! Hope all goes awesome with all of your grows as well!


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 19, 2013)

For sure bro! Thanks for your input as well! I'll be around! And hopefully with a fresh harvest face in he next few weeks!


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## j.p.s.w (Feb 19, 2013)

Niiiiiccccceeeeeee!!!!


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## HighFi (Feb 24, 2013)

Hey sincerely 420, glad you started a thread like this, definitely something I have been wondering about as I am growing a sativa for the first time and am getting the rams horns real bad and am not real familiar with sativas. I have only grown about 5 plants, but I have been using ffof. I have recently found the 1.5 cuft bag of ocean forest at a feed and seed store that i never knew existed and they sell it for $13 a bag! Thought this was amazing as I have been paying $36 a bag from amazon! Anyway a buddy of mine has a cousin that grows as well and my buddy passed along some information from his cousin, saying he uses ocean forest too. But, he claims his cousin uses that soil, but doesn't put anything else in it. I asked him again and he claims he doesn't put ANYTHING else in it. I'm assuming he means the whole grow. He uses 5 gallon buckets and only grows indica to the best of my knowledge. I'm just wondering is this really possible? And I've seen this guy's product and it is definitely some nice professional shit. I have been having probs with the sativas though (rams horns, lots of yellowing on lower leaves 3 or 4 weeks into flowering, and SLOW flowering)and wondering if it's worth the risk to go just soil the whole grow? I know I imagine it would starve, but maybe my buddy misunderstood his cousin. Anyway haven't had time to read this WHOLE post if anyone has mentioned this but just curious.


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## Amysd (Feb 24, 2013)

Years ago used this stuff until I had one batch where the PH was off and from then never used any foxfarm product


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 24, 2013)

Amysd said:


> Years ago used this stuff until I had one batch where the PH was off and from then never used any foxfarm product


Damn that bad news :/

I pH'd my most recent batch at 6.5 right out of the bag.
I amended it afterwards and haven't worried about the pH since! And I only pH'd it then just becuase I was curious as to what it naturally was.
The joys of growing organic smoke


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 24, 2013)

HighFi said:


> Hey sincerely 420, glad you started a thread like this, definitely something I have been wondering about as I am growing a sativa for the first time and am getting the rams horns real bad and am not real familiar with sativas. I have only grown about 5 plants, but I have been using ffof. I have recently found the 1.5 cuft bag of ocean forest at a feed and seed store that i never knew existed and they sell it for $13 a bag! Thought this was amazing as I have been paying $36 a bag from amazon! Anyway a buddy of mine has a cousin that grows as well and my buddy passed along some information from his cousin, saying he uses ocean forest too. But, he claims his cousin uses that soil, but doesn't put anything else in it. I asked him again and he claims he doesn't put ANYTHING else in it. I'm assuming he means the whole grow. He uses 5 gallon buckets and only grows indica to the best of my knowledge. I'm just wondering is this really possible? And I've seen this guy's product and it is definitely some nice professional shit. I have been having probs with the sativas though (rams horns, lots of yellowing on lower leaves 3 or 4 weeks into flowering, and SLOW flowering)and wondering if it's worth the risk to go just soil the whole grow? I know I imagine it would starve, but maybe my buddy misunderstood his cousin. Anyway haven't had time to read this WHOLE post if anyone has mentioned this but just curious.


Wassup bossman! Thx for the props 

But to be honest with you, I wouldn't be able to tell yo uhow good the FFOF would do on it's own for an entire grow.
If you look back thru a couple posts you'll see that a couple guys around here pull it off using the soil only.
One guy transplants a few times into new soil, which is giving the roots some new soil to grow into with each transplant. That's sounds like the best way to do it if you ask me!
But Sativas can go forever from what I've read about em, so you'll more than likely need to transplant a few times, or amend the soil so that it'll go the distance. The plants use lots of N during the first half of the show, and it's usually the first thing to go deficient is soils because of how heavily the plants use it.

But $13 bucks a bag. That's a robbery! I pay $22 a bag without a problem


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## thewizard01 (Feb 25, 2013)

I veg a plant in FFOF, in a one gallon container untill it needs to be transplanted, I then transplant into a three gallon container and put in flower a couple days later. I do NOT add any supplements to the soil with the exception of fox farms "big bloom", which is completely organic. They never go def. on me! Shit I dont even adjust my water ph which is at 8.5 out of the tap with a ppm of about 90.

Oh and btw I add 4 tablespoons of big bloom per gallon EVERY watering


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 25, 2013)

Nice post Wiz! I appreciate ya sharing w/ us bro.
There's literally a hundred diff ways to grow man!


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## SOMEBEECH (Feb 25, 2013)

*Try the upside down Tomato bag........Hang it from a tree method.


Beech *


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## HighFi (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks 420 and wizard for the info. I'm trying to keep it simple and not over do it. I just ordered a small size botanicare nute trio to try it out, because I wanna be all organic. Just curious if anyone has done it straight soil. I do have the fox farms trio right now. Never thought about just using extra big bloom. I LST, so my plants are shorter, smaller, so it is possible I don't need much nutes. I just tend to get early yellowing of leaves lately and didn't know if it was nute def. I just know I have either a dinafem diesel or sleeskunk (didn't label them correctly) and it seems to be stalling pretty bad, so now I'm wondering if they have too much of something. Anyway I may cut back to water/molasses only and see what happens. I'll try to update if I get good results in the near future. PEACE!


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 25, 2013)

HighFi said:


> Thanks 420 and wizard for the info. I'm trying to keep it simple and not over do it. I just ordered a small size botanicare nute trio to try it out, because I wanna be all organic. Just curious if anyone has done it straight soil. I do have the fox farms trio right now. Never thought about just using extra big bloom. I LST, so my plants are shorter, smaller, so it is possible I don't need much nutes. I just tend to get early yellowing of leaves lately and didn't know if it was nute def. I just know I have either a dinafem diesel or sleeskunk (didn't label them correctly) and it seems to be stalling pretty bad, so now I'm wondering if they have too much of something. Anyway I may cut back to water/molasses only and see what happens. I'll try to update if I get good results in the near future. PEACE!


What kinda soil are you using ATM boss?


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## HighFi (Feb 25, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> What kinda soil are you using ATM boss?



I'm using the ffof soil. It's all I've ever used after my first plant which was a supersonic crystal storm, in which I used some soil out of the yard with some composted leaves.


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## ibitegirls (Feb 25, 2013)

thewizard01 said:


> I veg a plant in FFOF, in a one gallon container untill it needs to be transplanted, I then transplant into a three gallon container and put in flower a couple days later. I do NOT add any supplements to the soil with the exception of fox farms "big bloom", which is completely organic. They never go def. on me! Shit I dont even adjust my water ph which is at 8.5 out of the tap with a ppm of about 90.
> 
> Oh and btw I add 4 tablespoons of big bloom per gallon EVERY watering


Can anyone chime in on how much pH is lowered when Big Bloom is added? My tap water is roughly 8 pH and i was wondering how many tablespoons to add to bring it down to neutral in 1 gallon of water...


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 25, 2013)

HighFi said:


> I'm using the ffof soil. It's all I've ever used after my first plant which was a supersonic crystal storm, in which I used some soil out of the yard with some composted leaves.


That's wassup bro. You said you're stalling and yellowing?? Could your plants be root bound perhaps?


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 25, 2013)

ibitegirls said:


> Can anyone chime in on how much pH is lowered when Big Bloom is added? My tap water is roughly 8 pH and i was wondering how many tablespoons to add to bring it down to neutral in 1 gallon of water...


If I could I would bro. The only thing I have that's in a bottle is Neptune Harvest Liquid Fish.
Maybe someone will see this and chime in. Otherwise you might need to get a pH meter and go to work.
Good luck with that


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## ibitegirls (Feb 25, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> If I could I would bro. The only thing I have that's in a bottle is Neptune Harvest Liquid Fish.
> Maybe someone will see this and chime in. Otherwise you might need to get a pH meter and go to work.
> Good luck with that


my Oakton tester pH meter is on the way.. just waiting for it to arrive 

i think 4 tablespoons will drop it down to 6 or so, but i will have to run some science experiments once my equipment arrives. since my FFOF mix contains oyster shells, they should help to naturally balance out the pH if it drops too low. i know that oyster and lime have hard time bringing pH down, but they're quite good at bringing it back up... or so i hear


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 25, 2013)

Thats true bro(that last sentence regarding lime and oyster shell).
As far as I know, a good top dressing of peat should bring your pH down as well. 
The FFOF should be pretty well balanced tho, unless you got a bad batch or something.
I pH'd my most recent bag at 6.5 right outta the bag. Afterwards I amended it and let it sit for a month to be never pH'd again.
If you have a good enough source of compost in the soil it buffers the pH of keeps it relatively unchanged by anything added to it.
You can buy more compost and earth worm castings and mix them in before using it to help out with that cause


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## ibitegirls (Feb 25, 2013)

yes, ewc is missing from my soil mix unfortunately. although, big bloom does contain earthworm castings + bat guano, so i will include that in waterings.

you know, switch from chemical to organic is not cheap. i've bought soil meter, water pump for teas, water moisture meter, pH meter, ej grow/bloom/catalyst/meta-k, citric acide for ph down, ffof and happy frog soils.. 

all in like two week span, and it was all funded with tax return money. thank you government!

edit: FFOF does have EWC, please disregard my first sentence above. thanks to person below for correcting that


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 26, 2013)

Lol bro I spent like $150 to get everything I needed at first and haven't had to buy anything since except for more soil and EWCs! This since like October!
It is a little pricey at first, but everything will come back with time!


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## SOMEBEECH (Feb 26, 2013)

ibitegirls said:


> yes, ewc is missing from my soil mix unfortunately. although, big bloom does contain earthworm castings + bat guano, so i will include that in waterings.
> 
> you know, switch from chemical to organic is not cheap. i've bought soil meter, water pump for teas, water moisture meter, pH meter, ej grow/bloom/catalyst/meta-k, citric acide for ph down, ffof and happy frog soils..
> 
> all in like two week span, and it was all funded with tax return money. thank you government!


If you have FFOF its got EC in it.

Good choice on the Oakton,I had one for 7yrs before it went bad.


Beech


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 26, 2013)

SOMEBEECH said:


> If you have FFOF its got EC in it.
> 
> Good choice on the Oakton,I had one for 7yrs before it went bad.
> 
> ...


True that! But keep in mind that you'll need some more EWCs for topdressing and for your AACTs


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## thewizard01 (Feb 26, 2013)

ibitegirls said:


> Can anyone chime in on how much pH is lowered when Big Bloom is added? My tap water is roughly 8 pH and i was wondering how many tablespoons to add to bring it down to neutral in 1 gallon of water...


Last time I checked it didnt really change mine at all. It might move down to like 8.0 but still I have no problem with that. ONCE in a while ill add a couple drops of ph down to change it up, but I guarentee i dont NEED to. Actually I think its a good thing watering FFOF with slightly alkaline water due to the fact that it will become acidic quickly. 

When I first started I tried feeding with regular grow/bloom nutes and the salts just made the soil waaay to acidic causing my leaves to go yellow and shity every single time no matter what my ph was at or how often I flushed, nothing I did mattered. Now I just use big bloom all the way through untill maybe the last couple weeks when occasionally ill add a pinch of bloom nutes with it. Also what ever size pot you want to use go one gallon larger and you will never have a problem. Seriously, i was SOO fed up with soil and FFOF when the first couple takes turned my shit yellow two weeks into flower, and I could never find info on how people could keep them green in FFOF anywhere. But now, I promise you all if you do exactly what I say in my previous post they will turn out great!... and dont forget, one gallon larger pot than what you are thinking to yourself for flower! it matters


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## HighFi (Feb 26, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> That's wassup bro. You said you're stalling and yellowing?? Could your plants be root bound perhaps?


Well yeh that was an idea, as they are only in 2 gallon pots...and actually I thought about that right after I posted on this forum. I had some 5 gallon lowes buckets so I went ahead and carefully cut the bottom out and transplanted it to the 5 gallon bucket. So we'll see if that helps. I really didn't notice a ton of root growth like I would expect of something that is rootbound, but we'll see what happens. Could be possible light leaks too from my other plant that I'm vegging right now. I think I got that fixed so I will give it a week and see if the progress speeds up. But DAMN I'm impatient lol.


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 27, 2013)

That's wassup that you transplanted to bigger pots! And watch out for those light leaks bro! Might cause one of your ladies to develop some males flower!!
Having zero light enter during dark period is of UTMOST importance!!!!


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## Sincerely420 (Feb 28, 2013)

Not necessarily the "newest" material, but informative nevertheless


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## timbo666 (Mar 3, 2013)

I personally use it right out of the bag, seed to finish. no issues at all. I start using grow big by fox farms about 3rd week from sprout. veg 6-7 weeks, start using big bloom first few weeks flower every other watering, then switch to straight tiger bloom for the last 3-4 weeks. averaged 3 oz a plant dry 7~ week veg time under a 1000w hps 5g buckets. transplanting isn't necessary in my opinion. it's nice,but if you're lazy and aren't growing commercially, there's no harm in going ol' natural.


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 4, 2013)

timbo666 said:


> I personally use it right out of the bag, seed to finish. no issues at all. I start using grow big by fox farms about 3rd week from sprout. veg 6-7 weeks, start using big bloom first few weeks flower every other watering, then switch to straight tiger bloom for the last 3-4 weeks. averaged 3 oz a plant dry 7~ week veg time under a 1000w hps 5g buckets. transplanting isn't necessary in my opinion. it's nice,but if you're lazy and aren't growing commercially, there's no harm in going ol' natural.


Thx 4 sharing bro! And thx again for doing so in detail so there's no questions lol!
And cheers to success!

PS, Commercial growers everywhere are going organic lol! You ain't know?!
A good organic soil should do hydro numbers all day in theory!


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## SOMEBEECH (Mar 6, 2013)

You can really push the limits in hydro as far as PPM,Dont see organics in soil able to keep up.
Beech


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 6, 2013)

I got a lot more learning to do bossman, but If I'm on the right track we should be seeing it by the end of the year.
I figure a couple grows in recycled soil, after being lightly amended maybe twice, won't have to be amended anymore,
and the soil should be so teaming with life that EVERYTHING should be operating as maximum efficiency.
I headed more towards the soil biology side of things as we speak captain.
I'm working! And headed back to the basics for the answers!


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## timeout (Mar 7, 2013)

bioWheel said:


> What's the runoff PH of straight FFOF vs your mixture? How much did you boost the PH with your additions?


I tested what drained off my FFOF soil using 6.7ph RO water. 6.5 on the nose. This was after six weeks of using the soil, but I'm still a bit suspicious. My two jock horror have nipped tips after I used a mere 10% week 6 Foxfarm nute regime. I don't know. It might be a bit late for the soil to have an effect, but I don't know.


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 7, 2013)

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/organic/2002082739009975.html


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## Shwagbag (Mar 7, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/organic/2002082739009975.html


Good post S420, that dude brews a mean batch! The fish suggestion reminded me of one of my grower friends. He used to put dead fish in the dirt for his outdoor grows, an old timer told him it was the secret to success lol. I definitely notice that I get less foam when my temps get down under 65F.


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## stjimmyskater (Mar 8, 2013)

I've been doing my second grow using FFOF, and I find that my plants are looking bigger and healthier than the last one by starting nutrients at the second to last week of veg. I'm using GH Flora Nova nutes (Using Lucas Formula and a PPM meter to get an accurate gauge of how much nutes I'm ggiving the plants) and things seem to be going well. Some lower leaves having issues due mainly to lack of light, but otherwise they're looking good, IMO. Picture is day one of flowering, 3 days ago.


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 8, 2013)

Thanks for the post brother! Thanks for sharing!
And my, what a very nice plant you have there haha!

But a couple question?
What is she? How long have you vegged her for, and under what lights are you flowering?! 
Nice job, and thanks again bro


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 8, 2013)

Shwagbag said:


> Good post S420, that dude brews a mean batch! The fish suggestion reminded me of one of my grower friends. He used to put dead fish in the dirt for his outdoor grows, an old timer told him it was the secret to success lol. I definitely notice that I get less foam when my temps get down under 65F.


I didn't know that you could get the AACTs to work like bottle nutes bro! I knew for sure that the bennies reproduced within the AACT, but had no idea that while doing so, make the nutrients that we put inside soluble!
This means that we are getting more nutritional value out of our teas that we think! I mean I thought it was the way things worked, given the fact that I'd get slight burn from some AACT use, but I wasn't sure.

Well now I am bro! So it's def. time to push in with experimenting to find the perfect veg and flower AACTs!
We'll get there in a timely fashion!

[video=youtube_share;-BgdaOqblzg]http://youtu.be/-BgdaOqblzg[/video]

#NorthCackStandUp!


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## Shwagbag (Mar 8, 2013)

That's exactly right S420! That is the concept of using AACT. In between tea applications I like to bubble my straight water to try and keep the herd moving too. Not sure if it helps but hydro uses the same concept with ebb and flow, dwc etc. I figure the roots like the oxygen along with the microbiology that the organic compounds need the help from.


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## SOMEBEECH (Mar 8, 2013)

I check all my AACT PPMs,as well as PH.Im using some Black Kow compost,FE,EC,and a little M.
Started with a PPM of around 500 for seedlings and now there almost 20days old get RT at 1000PPM.
They are really loving the AACT 420Will,Thanks for getting me on the RT track with the Teas!!
Beech


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 8, 2013)

Preeshhh fellaz 
Personally, I'm motivated by both of ya'll to get better at my craft! It's nice to be able learn from you and help you learn at the same time haha.
That's what is all about! 
The main benefit of growing organic is its ease and simplicity of course, but why not turn it up a bit if we can right?!
Get closer to finding out why they say organic yields can compete with those of hydro!
I think we might be on to something! Not that it ain't something somebody out there probably already mastered lol.

But the fact that we can fine tune our AACTs to deliver nutes is some shiiii!
Having a good soil(which of course we have) will make experimentation an option, given the fact that the soil's a buffer!
And cheers bossman! I'm just glad you're around to help me out partner! So anything I can do....You know 

*edit And of course we can't be sure of what bennies we're brewing for sure without fancy equipment yadayadayada...
We can however be sure of how to mix what we need to get where we wanna be, and let the plants show us wassup!


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## SOMEBEECH (Mar 8, 2013)

Coco medium, organics with your recipe or tweaked some,I bet you get close to hydro yields.....
Feeding, would have to be Dialed in to the Tea,Haha....
Something to think about?
Beech


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 8, 2013)

To the tea haha #nice


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## Shwagbag (Mar 9, 2013)

SOMEBEECH said:


> Coco medium, organics with your recipe or tweaked some,I bet you get close to hydro yields.....
> Feeding, would have to be Dialed in to the Tea,Haha....
> Something to think about?
> Beech


I agree. I read some really nice soil mixes from urban gardener a cpl years ago that used, peat, coco, little hydroton cubes and perlite. I don't think they added organics to the substrate but with added lime and some tea it seemed to have nice potential. It seemed to be more geared towards synthetic nutrients initially. 

I haven't played much with coco other than what's in the bags of store mix I've bought, but I would love to do a small hydro flood and drain someday with coco chunk. 1 gallon airpots SOG method like Al. B Fuct would be so much fun in a perpetual, but non organic of course.

Roots Organics makes a nice coco premix that I bought and never really used much. Something about coco being picky with PH scares the shit out of me, I've grown so accustomed to organic growing that it seems too simple to change now. 

I have 6-8 bags of shit I bought over the past few years including a super soil from northern Michigan which I have yet to try. I have about 15-20 gallons of Sub's mix left, nearly time to whip up a new batch of mix. I'm hoping for the weather to break here soon so I can mix it outside, I don't care to do it in my garage with dust masks. I'm going pro-mix base too and I can just picture the airstorm that shit is going to create lol.


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 9, 2013)

Haha nice Swag! 

And I was gonna go ahead an give Fox Farm Happy Frog a shot just to do it, but I decided against it for a few reasons, and one of those was because it wasn't soil based. The others were the pH being less stable due to the coir, and the fact that I felt I should build on what I've started and see where I can take it ya know?!
The FFOF is pretty much my source of compost in my soil mix, and given the fact that it's loaded with so much in the bag already made it an easy choice!
And I'm glad I started with organics too man. I couldn't imagine it being more easy man. I'm gonna post some pics of my 2nd gen girls here haha just to give to to the second batch i whipped up.
They're literally PERFECTLY green man! I'm banking on them staying that way thruout!

I'm working on a soil recycling project tho bro, so by the time it's all said and done, ain't none of "us" gonna be buying soil ever again haha.
Just letting it get fine with time like wine! Watch me work!


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## Shwagbag (Mar 9, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Haha nice Swag!
> 
> And I was gonna go ahead an give Fox Farm Happy Frog a shot just to do it, but I decided against it for a few reasons, and one of those was because it wasn't soil based. The others were the pH being less stable due to the coir, and the fact that I felt I should build on what I've started and see where I can take it ya know?!
> The FFOF is pretty much my source of compost in my soil mix, and given the fact that it's loaded with so much in the bag already made it an easy choice!
> ...


I did some soil recycling last year and it worked pretty well. I didn't add enough organic amendments though as I ended up with more mix than I expected lol. The thread I'm basing my next mix off from also had a recycling section, the source is from another link I found quite awhile back from "Three little birds".

*RECIPE #4*
Three Little Birds Method
40 gallons used soil
4 cups alfalfa meal
4 cups bone meal
4 cups kelp meal
4 cups powdered dolomite lime
30 pound bag of earthworm castings . . .
That&#8217;s the basic recipe . . .
However we also like to use
4 cups of Greensand
4 cups of Rock Phosphate
4 cups of diatomaceous earth


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 9, 2013)

"*You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Shwagbag again." WTF lol do I not look around on RIU enough anymore damn lol?!

*But yup, I'm building my next mix in pretty similar proportions with pretty similar things!
Cheers for that post bro! I'll be sure to share when I've cheffed my mix up bro


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 9, 2013)

http://www.finegardening.com/how-to/articles/soil-amendments.aspx


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 9, 2013)




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## Sincerely420 (Mar 9, 2013)

Originally Posted by *hooked.on.ponics*  

This isn't actually true, but it all stems around the definition of "organic" you want to use. Ammonium nitrate is a _*naturally occurring*_ chemical that is formed by a chemical reaction between ammonia and nitric acid. Both of which are _*naturally occurring*_ substances in soil. The buzzword "organic" is commonly used to describe a process of making things without using "magical science" or whatever mumbo-jumbo you're concerned might make one chemical structure different than an absolutely identical chemical structure made by a more natural process.








"LOL. That is all I really have to read to be able to tell that you really don't get it. Don't be ashamed though, most people start off like you, this is just how we're being raised after the "Green" Revolution.

It has nothing to do with the fact that ions are ions and plants only absorb nitrogen as either ammonium (NH4+) or nitrate (NO3-), phosphorous as phosphate, potassium as K+, etc. It isn't entirely about carbon, either. Organic in this case has to do with something being related to or derived from living matter. Maybe you never heard, but nobody ever had to pour ammonium nitrate on an old growth forest. This is mostly because soil is alive, and the microbes and other organisms are cycling organic matter, nourishing the plants. This is, essentially, both why the Earth isn't covered in death, shit _and _what allows plants to acquire nutrients for growth (_energy_ they get from the sun).

There are several things you have to understand about how soil actually works (in terms of chemistry and cation exchange), how plants work (in terms of roots behavior\nutrient assimilation), and what microbes\organism living in soil do for the plant in order to be able to understand and appreciate organics or gardening with the soil food web. I've written endlessly about this kind of stuff here in organics. Practically all organisms that live in soil are aiding in this cycle in some way. Plant roots produce and excrete substances through their roots (exudates) to attract micro-organisms to the rhizosphere. The rhizosphere, or root-zone is the area immediately surrounding the roots and this is where nutrients are absorbed. Microbes living in the rhizosphere are like little packets of fertilizer; each organism is producing a certain degree of 'waste' in the form of plant usable nutrients. The microbes are turning organic matter into usable nutrients. Most of the elements in soil, including those that plants need, are locked up in complex compounds which plants cannot absorb. Phosphorous is an example of a heavily bound element, and even high P fertilizer applied to soil will quickly (A.) Leach or (B) Precipitate from the soil solution or become locked up in organic matter. In neither case is that phosphorous plant available. The microflora and in particular symbiotic fungi are [ultimately] responsible for a good deal of the phosphorous acquisition by plants.


The organisms do more than just feed plants, though. Microbes are responsible for regulating the pH in the rhizosphere to enhance nutrient assimilation. Bacteria are protected by an alkaline bio-slime that they produce. Fungi produce organic acids and enzymes to digest minerals and organic materials. Beneficial microbes are in direct competition for resources against the comparatively rarer pathogenic or "bad" organisms. Some protect through direct means: some make their own antibiotics (e.g. Trichoderma, Streptomyces) and\or induce host-plant resistance. They also produce a plethora of other compounds including plant growth regulators that enhance root\plant growth. Mycorrhizal fungi are in symbiotic interaction with the plants, exchanging water and nutrients (such as phosphorous) for carbohydrates. The thread-like fungal hyphae are sleeker, they can colonize an entire substrate over vast distances and go places where plant roots cannot. Not to mention what these organisms do for the soil structure.

The problem with the chemical fertilizers is that they do absolutely nothing for soil quality. They use high NPK chemical fertilizers and the majority of it isn't even taken up by the plants; it washes right by them and into the water table. They decimate mycelium, microbes and other beneficial organisms such as earthworms (which do amazing things for soil). Due to this the soil quality gets worse over time and their solution is to apply more fertilizer. Synthetic pesticides are typically not narrow-spectrum, and tend to have wide-ranging and unforeseen effects on ecosystems. _Most_ bugs are good, and that is a fact. Good bugs such as spiders, lady bugs, praying mantises, predator mites, etc. eat all kinds of pests, but they too are vulnerable. Insects and *bees* especially are *absolutely essential* to plant pollination; essential to your ability to buy produce and flowers! Colony collapse disorder is no joke and synthetic pesticides are a likely significant contributing factor.

I am not against hydroponics indoors with synthetic\chemical nutrients, that is different. I just love soil and also prefer it indoors as well."

The words of fellow RIU member @Nullis. 

Cheers bossman


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 9, 2013)

*I used this soil mix:
-1.5cubic feet Fox Farm Ocean Forest
-38cups Wiggle Worms Earthworm Casting (1-0-0)
-10cups Perlite(may add more eventually)
-11tsp Rooters Mycorrhizae
*Soil Base
__________________________
-1.5cups Indonesian Hi-P Bat Guano (.5-13-.2)
-1.5cups Algamin Kelp Meal (1-0-2)
-1.5cups Espoma Tomato Tone (3-4-6)
*Nutritional Amendments
__________________________
-1.5cups Azomite(used as a rock dust)
-0.5cup Espoma Green sand 
-1.25cups Hi-Cal Lime
*Mineral Amendments*
*To Grow This Happy Plant:*







#GottaLoveOrganics


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## Bear Country (Mar 9, 2013)

intenseneal said:


> I use FFOF and Happy Frog straight out of the bag. Green lush happy plants and no need to use veg nutes.


Thank you for posting this comment.....people go ape shit trying to ammend thier soil when the TRUTH is you dont have to get carried away with allot of that. The question was using FFOF.....I use FF happy frog to start and veg...I add nothing...absolutly nothing....once the seeds pop and get going...then I start watering with ph adjusted water....If you notice there in not a posted NPK ratio on happy frog......but the fact of the matter is that there is enough nutrient in that soil mix that ...like intense said.....happy, lush, beautiful, green plants.....without any signs of nut def.....only on a couple of occasions I had to up the mg just ever so slightly....the other thing I like about FFHF is NO BUGS!!!!....from seed to first transplant, if you use a standard plastic beer cup to start them, is about 14 days. I then move them into a one gallon pot again using FFHF....and they are good to go for an additional 15 to 20 days....then repeat the process to a slightly larger pot until you have sexed ( if using regular seed )....once I have sexed I transplant into the pot that I will flower in...usually a 5 gallon if indoor...on this final transplant....this is where I use FF Ocean Forest....this is the soil they will stay in until harvest...I continue to veg for ten days before I flip the switch to 12/12 so that the girl can make a full adjustment and recover from any transplant shock.....at this point I gradually start my feeding schedule starting off gradually......YOU DONT NEED A SHIT TON OF NUTS ON YOUR GIRLS!!!!!! they do very well with light to medium feedings....I have had GREAT results using this method.....and finally as you progress in the flowering stage just look at the girls closly....they will tell you what they need...and usually small amounts of nuts will fix it.... A good friend of mine who grew with some of the big names on the other side of the pond taught me.....YOU DONT NEED TO GO APE SHIT WITH FEEDING...its allot harder to correct problems from over feeding and making those types of mistakes....and I can attest to that because just like every grower here and around the world...I have made my fair share of mistakes doing just that....so Peace


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## Bear Country (Mar 9, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> 166 views....0 replies...Well then.
> 
> I got my rock dust. Went ahead and added two and a half cups...
> And we'll call it a day


PS...I didnt mention this in my previous post but this is important....KEEP YOUR GROW SPACE CLEAN...think of it as a lab.....one of the best things you can do for your micro enviorment...


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 9, 2013)

Ok so you mentioned feeding and a feeding schedule in your post above yea?? Yea..
Well the reason ppl go "ape shit" and amend their soil is so that they don't have to worry about a "feeding schedule". Ever.
If you amend the soil before you use it and you can go H20 only from start to finish.

Some say there's enough from start to finish like you, and some say otherwise...Alls I know is that my FFOF certainly has enough juice to go the distance.
Also, if you transplant using grow bags, you will NOT encounter transplant shock. Also, you take the time pH your water for whatever reason, and I don't worry about it because I know my soil buffers the pH of everything I put in it....
But should I give you hell because you pH your water and I think thats VERY unnecessary given the fact that I haven't done it it?

Seems like you got a beef with something someone said, but I certainly didn't say that you couldn't grow using FFOF and nothing more..
But 

& I garden on carpet lol. Shit is *CLEAN*!


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## Bear Country (Mar 9, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Ok so you mentioned feeding and a feeding schedule in your post above yea?? Yea..
> Well the reason ppl go "ape shit" and amend their soil is so that they don't have to worry about a "feeding schedule". Ever.
> If you amend the soil before you use it and you can go H20 only from start to finish.
> 
> ...


I wont and cant disagree with you....perhaps I did come across like that...my apologies.....I was meerly trying to make the point that there is a tendency for people to think that more is better when in most cases it really is not....that was it....I was not saying that YOU were doing something bad or wrong....


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 9, 2013)

It's all good bro. A lot of things can be made simpler than they are true!
But likewise, you can make the soil better by amending it..If that wasn't the case, this organics section wouldn't exist


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## Bear Country (Mar 9, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> It's all good bro. A lot of things can be made simpler than they are true!
> But likewise, you can make the soil better by amending it..If that wasn't the case, this organics section wouldn't exist


Again...I do not disagree but there is this pre concieved notion with allot of growers ( some new, some old ) that they have to somehow create this magical super soil in order for them to have good results....and thats really not the case. I to ammend my soils more so for my outdoor gardens but that can get way out there for someone starting out....and you pointed out that perhaps I was lashing out at something someone else said....well there is some truth to that....because on allot of these threads people spew out allot of bunk. I'm an old school grower...been at it for a while now and as you pointed out.....you can have great results without being a mad scientist!! Fox Farm Ocean Forest can and will take you to the finish line!! And by the way....I love my smoke grown in soil....oh my goodness!!! So I only grow in soil....but By saying that I'm not argueing that hydro does not wk and so on...


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 9, 2013)

The more you learn about soil, the more you'll realize that there's more too it man.
You just gotta look a little deeper..And believe me, I'm ALWAYS lookin' for ways to improve anything that I can.

This magical super soil that your talking about, I think it exists. If you couldn't make better soils, FFOF would cost the same an Miracle grow and other cheaper soils, which are amended with few ingredients.
FFOF costs more per bag bcuz there' more in it per bag brother. That's fact, just your the labels.
And it's not the growers need to creat a super soil to be successful, growing in one just makes the process easier.
Like no problems at all easy.

For example, if you add more earthworm castings to your FFOF, you unleash the power of Nitrogen in your soil by adding more Nitrogen fixing baceria.
Adding more organic matter to the soil mean the potential for more life in the soil, which means the potential for more available nutrients..

Sure you can get by just fine with FFOF. That's true. 
I'm not into getting by, I'm trying to excel...
I'm one of those "new" noobs bro. There's so much more to it....

edit-But in all, I agree with you bro that you can grow a perfectly good plant in FFOF alone!
I haven't done it myself as I haven't tried, but a few guy here including yourself are obviously getting it done! So kudos


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 9, 2013)

http://www.theweedblog.com/whats-the-best-soil-for-growing-marijuana/


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## Bear Country (Mar 9, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> The more you learn about soil, the more you'll realize that there's more too it man.
> You just gotta look a little deeper..And believe me, I'm ALWAYS lookin' for ways to improve anything that I can.
> 
> This magical super soil that your talking about, I think it exists. If you couldn't make better soils, FFOF would cost the same an Miracle grow and other cheaper soils, which are amended with few ingredients.
> ...


I hear you loud and clear....do you use fem seeds or regular seeds? I use reg seed to start and select my moms then clone from there but I have planted just regular seeds and sexed and grown them out...here is what I am thinking....I start them in happy frog like I stated before....I want to increase the N just slightly in my happy frog....just elevate it slightly....I want to increase my female ratios from seed by using a 16hr light/8hr dark, lowering the temp in my room slightly, increasing N just slightly in the soil i start them in and raising the humidity a tad.....I dont want to elevate the n to much.....using worm castings...what do you think would be a reasonable amount to mix into my HF just to increase N slightly.


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 10, 2013)

I'm using fem. seeds atm bro. Everything I've got right now is ordered from Attitude except for the pic that I posted above of the bag seed.
I don't really have the luxury of owning the place and having ample space, so I make due in the closet. But with that said, I go with fem. just to save the time and space.

But why do you say that you can increase your odds of females by running the lights 16/8? I wasn't aware of that bro.
And happy frog is coir based rather than soil based, so it's a different beast than the FFOF.
I went with FFOF because it was soil. IDK that it's fact, but I've read that the pH in coir is less stable than that of a soil base.
But you can use several things to add more Nitrogen bro! CHECK THIS THREAD OUT HAHA! Everything you're asking is here 3 times!
Have a quick look and get back to me hahah! I promise your answers are here.
I stock pile shit that I find interesting and informative here, and revisit it all from time to time 

But you can't elevate the N too much using worm castings. They're a very mild fert. You don't wanna over do it tho like with anything


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 10, 2013)




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## Sincerely420 (Mar 10, 2013)

*Seedsman White Widow *

#happyplants


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## Bear Country (Mar 10, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> I'm using fem. seeds atm bro. Everything I've got right now is ordered from Attitude except for the pic that I posted above of the bag seed.
> I don't really have the luxury of owning the place and having ample space, so I make due in the closet. But with that said, I go with fem. just to save the time and space.
> 
> But why do you say that you can increase your odds of females by running the lights 16/8? I wasn't aware of that bro.
> ...


Well there are several reports out there that show these studies....its in several of the ...hmmm how could I put it....some of the reputable growers...for instance Jorge Cerevantes Mj horticulture and most recently Greg Green published Dutch Passions findings in his Mj breeders bible....I had been reading this for a while...I am going to try it out for myself...fortunatly I do have the space to grow out enough to see what the results turn out to be.....I guess thats looking like a future thread ha..!!


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## Bear Country (Mar 10, 2013)

Those are nice pics....I never took pics of my grows but I produced colas the size of a regular size water bottle....huge...grade a smoke....

Of course....space is a non factor in my case....but those are beautiful girls...for sure!!


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 10, 2013)

You kinda gotta pick thru it for the relevant info, but this is some good stuff for any soil nerd 

http://swstout.articlealley.com/characteristics-of-good-quality-soil-1697929.html


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## Bear Country (Mar 10, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> You kinda gotta pick thru it for the relevant info, but this is some good stuff for any soil nerd
> 
> http://swstout.articlealley.com/characteristics-of-good-quality-soil-1697929.html


I will look it up.....what are you using for lights?? HID...What


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 10, 2013)

Bear Country said:


> Those are nice pics....I never took pics of my grows but I produced colas the size of a regular size water bottle....huge...grade a smoke....
> 
> Of course....space is a non factor in my case....but those are beautiful girls...for sure!!


One day I'll get there man(bottled sized colas haha)! Thanks tho! I can't believe it 3am lol. I my eyes are like glazed over I'm so zuited haha!
I just had to focus my eyes on the time to see it pfff
Take it easy bro, I'm out for the night 

And good luck growing bro!


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 10, 2013)

Bear Country said:


> I will look it up.....what are you using for lights?? HID...What


Click the signature at the bottom of my post that says my op brother. I'm documenting this run


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## Bear Country (Mar 10, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> One day I'll get there man(bottled sized colas haha)! Thanks tho! I can't believe it 3am lol. I my eyes are like glazed over I'm so zuited haha!
> I just had to focus my eyes on the time to see it pfff
> Take it easy bro, I'm out for the night
> 
> And good luck growing bro!


Cool...thanks...I will get back to you after I get on that read....ya,,,its super late


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 11, 2013)

[h=1]"Organic Marijuana[/h] *Organic marijuana is the technique of using no pesticides, fertilizers on soil.* The list of growing mediums is usually a combination of natural organic material such as manure, worm castings, bat guano, seabird guano, sea kelp, steamed bone meal, blood meal, fish, oat bran and numerous composts. Best composts are fruit and fruit bearing vines (cantaloupes, grapes, watermelon, blueberries). *The growing medium used can effect the taste of the marijuana, providing a concentrated source of calcium, magnesium, nitrogen, phosphates and potash.* I've personally smoked organic marijuana grown in a base of rabbit manure, bat guano, worm castings and blueberry vines. They all produce a rich earthy flavour with noticeable differences. Organic marijuana growers love to experiment and achieve there own personal taste.

Attention has to be paid to growing medium acidity. So many farmers use different growth material sources, configure your own mix and check for proper ph levels. Pay attention to troubleshoot any nutrient deficiencies which will be noticeable in leaf growth. In a small amount of time you'll develop a perfect mix. *Organic cannabis grows slower than hydroponics, soil-less mixes or any new growing medium "but" the taste and flavour is unique, pungent, prevalent and flavourful. THC crystal content is always high.*

My friend breeds rabbits, grows raspberries, gathers sea kelp and loves the daily maintenance of farming his own mix. *Knowing what's inside your marijuana is a comforting feeling adding to the high. *Cerebral smokers attain higher states of buzz.

*No other fertilizers can produce the nutrient levels and tastes.* You do not have to add any growing ingredients, everything is already in the mix. *Flushing your cannabis at the end of the flowering cycle is not necessary, eliminating any chemical taste. Those two facts reduce the growing work load. Organic marijuana is more resistant to disease. The cannabis always burns clean. Environmentally friendly with no danger to you. The Green Man salutes Organic Farmers."*


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 11, 2013)

http://hightimes.com/grow/ddanko/3873


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 11, 2013)

http://www.marijuanagrowershq.com/organic-marijuana-fertilizers/


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## Bear Country (Mar 12, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> http://www.marijuanagrowershq.com/organic-marijuana-fertilizers/


I spent the day reading...Allot of info...Allot of GOOD info. Some I have read before, some now for the first time.....I'm going to prep four different plots outdoors and I will journal the activity I see from each resulting plot...then later on in the winter months I will post the results.....So my wk load just increased somewhat...the grows were gonna take place anyway....now I am just going to ammend my soils and see what happens....I have one other project I am going to be working on this summer but I wont reveal that until after harvest.....I hope to have some good info for the Ganga Nation!!! You have done a good job getting this info out...props to you 4:20 

The Bear


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 12, 2013)

Cheers Bear!

Everything I can find useful regarding soil, I'll put it here bossman! I've been reading a lot lately into the biology of the soil, so I'll be dropping some more knowledge for ya here soon bro!
And I'm hoping to get an outdoor grow in this season too bro! Hopefully we both have a safe and successful run!
But kudos to your for not being a one of those lock heads around here that think they know it all, and just refuse to be coached up in the least!
Theres tooooo much to learn man! This plant still has some evolving to do I'm sure, so there ain't no way that things are set in stone as to how to properly cultivate this herb


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 13, 2013)




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## Sincerely420 (Mar 15, 2013)

Went Back to the books hard this week!


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 16, 2013)

Intro from Teaming with Microbes


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 16, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Give your plants the buffet treatment! Set em up with an all you can eat soil and let them get as FAT as they want to
> 
> View attachment 2509280View attachment 2509281



Had to bump this post!


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## dopedeeii (Mar 21, 2013)

2part ready grow coco mix 1 part ffof. 1/4 cup Mexican bat guano 1/4 Peruvian seabird guano 5tblspoons dolomite lime and a nice scoop of white shark for 5gals


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 21, 2013)

Dope! Thx for the share man  
I would assume the coco mix is coir?


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 21, 2013)

*12 days Growth w/ No Nutes*. This plant is practically 12/12 from seed(1w 18/6)


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## dopedeeii (Mar 22, 2013)

Yep its a Botanic care pre mix it great alone but I like it with the ffof I treat it like dirt 6.1 ph for me all my buddy use straight ready gro but water at 5.7 I love soil I dnt want to play the hydro game LOL


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 22, 2013)

Nice! Thanks for the reply boss 

And I don't have the time and energy for hydro either lol.


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## SOMEBEECH (Mar 22, 2013)

My FE and M comin bottles......
Beech


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 22, 2013)

That that! And By FE you do mean fermented extracts and Molasses right?! 

And I just finished breaking down the last of the rootball from the "big 3", so I'm back to square one, with a bucket full of soil haha! 

I'll run everything by ya's here soon. Seems like someone beat me to the idea of posting about recycled soil but we're working in different ways, so I think it'll still be nice to share!


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## SOMEBEECH (Mar 22, 2013)

Fish Emulsion.....
Beech


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 22, 2013)

Word up! I thought you meant you were using extracts the whole time haha!
Also found out that fish emulsion(the Alaska Fish Emulsion) is a different beast than the Neptunes Harvest fish hydro. 
Did you know?! There a difference in the way the two are processed, which produces a different end result.
Was wondering why ppl where complain about their liquid fish stinking...Word is fish emulsion much stinkier


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## SOMEBEECH (Mar 22, 2013)

Thts why i was like what Sweet AACT,Not gonna happen with tht stuff.
I did check the smell Tday and had a rotten smell and discarded,and getting some rain Tday so i can fill my 55g buckett 'crosses' 'fingers'.Man i love rain water,For my girls.I read tht the closer the Tstorm the more the N in the Water.Gonna check tht out this spring.
Its almost 40-50ppm,everytime here lately my OCD wont let me do anything pertaining to watering even tho i know the soil is a buffer.6 to 7 ph or it get adjusted to 6
Beech


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## SOMEBEECH (Mar 22, 2013)

laska Fish Fertilizer Listed by the Organic Materials Review Institute OMRI, Alaska Fish Fertilizer 5-1-1 is an excellent all-purpose application made from 100% seagoing fish emulsion. Alaska Fish Fertilizer is rich in natural nutrients and the mild formulation guards against fertilizer burn. Great for use on any type of plant both indoors and out.

Dont belive tht its deodorized,Stuff stinks real bad!!
Beech


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 22, 2013)

The "sweet" smell that I was referring to comes from adding too much molasses to your AACT brew.
I've also gave them a good smell to make sure everything was still aerobic and whatnot, and the one tea that smelled a little different, is the one that brought the issues that you witnessed remember?!
M is a lot more nutritional than I think it's been passed off as, so tryin to use it as anything more than carb source in the AACTs seems unnecessary.
And good call of ditching it when you think it's not right!

And maybe try to go without pHing a batch for a few plants and see if you notice a difference in anything..
Maybe that might bring you to a conclusion sooner than later, as to whether you need to be pHing or not.
I know you do it just for the F of it tho, I'm just thinking out loud for you.

And yeah, that's fish emulsion. I've got fish hydrolosate. The smell of the Neptunes Harvest isn't at all too much



SOMEBEECH said:


> Thts why i was like what Sweet AACT,Not gonna happen with tht stuff.
> I did check the smell Tday and had a rotten smell and discarded,and getting some rain Tday so i can fill my 55g buckett 'crosses' 'fingers'.Man i love rain water,For my girls.I read tht the closer the Tstorm the more the N in the Water.Gonna check tht out this spring.
> Its almost 40-50ppm,everytime here lately my OCD wont let me do anything pertaining to watering even tho i know the soil is a buffer.6 to 7 ph or it get adjusted to 6
> Beech


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## SOMEBEECH (Mar 22, 2013)

Oh yea i remember the od of the M.
I will probly never break tht habit of Ph ing everything,ole habits are hard to break.
Beech


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 22, 2013)

No need to break it bossman. Esp. if you have the time and energy to do so.
TBH, if I had a nice pH meter, I'd do it too, but my pH meter cost $10 and has been all but retired lol


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## doublejj (Mar 24, 2013)

I like to mix Ocean Forest & Happy Frog 1-1. I add 15% fresh worm casting, 15% fresh compost, 15% perlite, & some dolomite & rainbow mix organic fertilizer. This is a very good mix, I get outstanding results with it.
OF + HF =


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 24, 2013)

doublejj said:


> I like to mix Ocean Forest & Happy Frog 1-1. I add 15% fresh worm casting, 15% fresh compost, 15% perlite, & some dolomite & rainbow mix organic fertilizer. This is a very good mix, I get outstanding results with it.
> OF + HF =


#YESS! And w/ pics! Very nice and thank you sir!
It's is obvious that you're mix is a *GREAT* mix as you're ladies are looking *EXTRA* satisfied!
Haven't heard of that Rainbow mix before now tho, and can't get a visual on the label so I gotta ask what's it composed of?
I'll end up looking into it without a doubt! Tis the time of year for a nice outdoor mix! 
Nice that you're prepped brother!

Hats off to ya boss. Way to grow 

edit- Also, how the super coarse perlite? vs the medium or chunky? Any logic in using the super coarse? Or is it just what you source the easiest?


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## doublejj (Mar 24, 2013)

Good luck bro, thanks.
This is just a mix I've been using with much success. Rainbow should be available wherever you are, it's nothing new. Just do a search for it, they will explain it better than I can. I top dress with it ever 2 weeks & switch to the bloom formula when I start to see flowers.
I've done a few of my grows over on the outdoor page before. Lots more pic's & videos in the grow threads over there.

P.S. I prefer the coarse perlite, but I'll use what I can get


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## doublejj (Mar 24, 2013)

And when I say 'fresh worm casting & compost', I mean farm fresh!


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 24, 2013)

Haha nice! And no shit lol, I see you meant *FRESH*!
The more I've learned, the more I've realized the "significance" of using fresh castings.
Posted a Craigslist ad searching for some but to no avail, and the local shop on supplies the wiggle worms which I've been using w/ success, but I know they're not the equivalent.

Anyhow, I'll be building a worm bin the next week so I'll have that problem solves here in the next 2-3 months haha. Gotta pick up my last bag of wiggleworms tomo.

But you are recycling all this soil too right?! You shouldn't have to buy anymore ever again 

And stay safe and much success to you sir! Keep it rocking!


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 24, 2013)

Not too mention the size of the fan leaf pictured *DAMN!*

Make sure you check out Espoma Tomato Tone brother! It's full of shit that our ladies love in an all-in-one package! In case you weren't familiar.


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## doublejj (Mar 25, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Haha nice! And no shit lol, I see you meant *FRESH*!
> The more I've learned, the more I've realized the "significance" of using fresh castings.
> Posted a Craigslist ad searching for some but to no avail, and the local shop on supplies the wiggle worms which I've been using w/ success, but I know they're not the equivalent.
> 
> ...


I re-use my old soil in my vegie garden every year. 
But my ganja plants get new soil each year.

Good luck
P.S. Thanks for the tip on the Espoma bro, I'll take a look.


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 25, 2013)

No doubt bossman! Anything you got to share, def. do so! And I mean anything pertaining to growing bushes like you grow haha!
I've just been stockpiling everything that I can, so I can find all the info I need in one place ya know?! Myself, my friends, and fellow farmers.

Hopefully I don't have to buy anymore soil this year haha. If I had the space I'd be composting also but yeah....in time...

Cheers tho JJ


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## doublejj (Mar 25, 2013)

If your nearby, you should try to make it to the 4/20 BBQ in NorCal. There should be lots of growers there to talk to.
There's a thread on the outdoor page, come if you can.
Good luck

doublejj


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 25, 2013)

*Soo...I'm on my 3rd soil mix using Fox Farms Ocean Forest as a base soil!*

*This mix is a little different tho as I'm reusing the soil from 3 plants that I harvest this month!*
*The soil mix that I used for those 3 plants was:*
*-1.5 cubic feet Fox Farm Ocean Forest 
-30 cups Perlite**
-3 tablespoons Hi-Cal lime**
-24 cups Earth Worm Castings
-3/4cups Espoma Tomato Tone 3-4-6
-1 1/2cups Algamin Kelp Meal 1-0-2 
-3/4cups Espoma Greensand
-7.5 cups Glacial Rock Dust

*Off all those amendments added initially, *the Kelp meal,* *the Green sand, and Rock dust will still be very giving to the soil ecosystem*, and in prime of their release times by the time I get ready to use the soil again.
The Tomato tone as well potentially.
Given that set of facts, I've only had to *LIGHTLY* *re-amend* the soil *and will have recycle it to get everything rolling again*.

*But why recycle your soil? Why not just buy new soil with every grow?*
1.*$$$* for one. 
2.Living soils get *BETTER* with time. Do a quick Google search on "*Soil Fertility*" to make yourself familiar!
3.To *NEVER* have to buy soil again

*And what I mean by a living soil, or a super soil, or an amended soil, is a soil that is complete.*
*A soil that has been enriched minerally as well as nutritionally*! I could go so far as to saying a soil that has been inoculated as well, but mixing in mycorrhizae isn't a must. *Just highly recommended* given the relationship between the roots and the living soil.
*
In doing what I'm doing tho, or at least attempting to do*, *you can start with a few bags of Fox Farms Ocean Forest and develop a far more superior product over time by your lonely. The way to do so is cultivating the life in our soil! 
*
*Replenishing the sources of compost and the nutrition and mineral amendments, adding less and less over time until you've created a fertile, self sustaining soil.*
*Once you've built up a nice heard of micro organisms in your soil, they pretty much serve as the both the provider and the protector of our plants! *

*Below are pics of the 3 root balls that I broke back down to recycle their soil!*

*Dinafem Blue Widow Root Mass*w/ Perlite Lined Bottom. Roughly 4 gallons of soil. In the 3rd pic, you can also see how much soil I started out to begin with! About an inch or so lined the bottom. After 3 root balls broking down, the tupperware is full again!
<-*Dinafem Blue Widow Root Mass** Broken down!

**Nirvana "autoflowering" Bubblicious Root Mass*

^^*Nirvana "autoflowering" Bubblicious(Perlite Lined Bottom*)
*Nirvana "autoflowering" Bubblicious(Digging The Perlite Outta The Bottom. Was About 1/2" thick layer)*
*Nirvana "autoflowering" Bubblicious Root Mass Broken Down!*

 *Seedsman White Widow Root Mass Exposed!*
View attachment 2586431View attachment 2586432View attachment 2586433 *Seedsman White Widow Root Mass Broken Down!*


*So we went from this:*



View attachment 2586431View attachment 2586433View attachment 2586432

*To this:*

View attachment 2586444*My products(amendment wise) are the very same once I bought back in October! Yep..I haven't had to buy anything else(amendment wise) since! 
And I wont have to for another couple grows. 
Compost and Worm Castings are the exception to that tho...I had to pick up some new bagged compost and bagged EWCs to work with.
Unless you produce your own, you'll be getting new bags of each every grow!*



 *<-Nice New Soil After Adding All of The Above! Much darker in color, and nice and loamy!*
View attachment 2586454*Made a nice "jumpstart" AACT that I bubbled for a solid 24hs to get the microbe action started on the right foot! *
*This tea consisted of :
1 gallon dechlorinated H20
1/4 cup Ancient Forest Compost
1 teaspoon Kelp Meal
1/2 teaspoon Neptune's Harvest
2 teaspoons Unsulphured Molasses

**<-The finished product! Minus 1 motnh time for it to "cook" or "cycle"!
*

*And there we have it! I've successfully recycled the soil from my first grow, watered it with an AACT, and will let it sit for at least a month, turning it once weekly before I use it!*

As always, I will post pics with results of this recycled mix in time!

Cheers to Success And Stashing Cash!


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 25, 2013)

doublejj said:


> If your nearby, you should try to make it to the 4/20 BBQ in NorCal. There should be lots of growers there to talk to.
> There's a thread on the outdoor page, come if you can.
> Good luck
> 
> doublejj


I wish I was in Cali brother! Would love to come out! Unfortunately I'm on the opposite coast ATM...I'll be making my way west sooner than later tho, so keep in touch with me as I evolve with this! You never know what life has planned bossman!
There's a 99% chance that I'll be headed to Colorado on 4/20 for the cup. Me and my lass! Are you coming out?!


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## doublejj (Mar 25, 2013)

No we are having our own little BBQ on 4/20.
Good luck bro, you look like you have it dialed!

doublejj


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 25, 2013)

Ahh ok good stuff!
And thanks man! I'm a young mind in this game, but working hard as far as studying up goes haha!
A man intrigued is a force to be reckoned with ayee!!

Cheers boss


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## doublejj (Mar 25, 2013)

I got my wife a loadhandler for christmas and she can unload a p/u full of soil in minutes. She'll draw a crowd at the local landfill!lol!
Well, you did call me a boss!


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 25, 2013)

You deserve to be called "boss" with threes like that boss! I know I'd be honored to go to work for ya 

Ps, my girl is the only that ever buys anything from the grow stores lol! Don't know the stats for pretty blondes getting profiled, but we'll bank on hers versus mine haha! I see ya boss!

Sexy truck btw lol


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## doublejj (Mar 25, 2013)

She also transforms into a handy bug sprayer. 


Boss
doublejj


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 25, 2013)

doublejj said:


> She also transforms into a handy bug sprayer.
> 
> 
> Boss
> doublejj


We'd be lost with out em....But shhhhhh haha


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 25, 2013)

*These ALL have anywhere from 2-4weeks left until harvest!** They got 1w 18/6 then went to 12/12!**


Bagseed*





*Delicious Seeds Critical Jack*





*& 3 Different Seedsman White Widow Ladies!*




*#1*




*#2*




*#3*

*All grown in this soil mix: *
*-1.5 cubic feet Fox Farm Ocean Forest
-38 cups Wiggle Worms Earthworm Casting (1-0-0) - Source better if possible but these get it done.
-10 cups Perlite(was already plenty in the soil)
-11 tsp Rooters Mycorrhizae
*Soil Base
__________________________
-1.5 cups Indonesian Hi-P Bat Guano (.5-13-.2)
-1.5 cups Algamin Kelp Meal (1-0-2)
-1.5 cups Espoma Tomato Tone (3-4-6)
*Nutritional Amendments
__________________________
-1.5 cups Azomite(used as a rock dust)
-0.5 cup Espoma Green Sand 
-1.25 cups Hi-Cal Lime
*Mineral Amendments
__________________________*

#WaterOnly. #AACTMagic. #NoBottles. #NoChemicals. #WHITEAshes.


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## doublejj (Mar 25, 2013)

Outstanding!


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## c4ulater (Mar 26, 2013)

I've been reading up on this all day/night. This is awesome for someone like me who is a newbie! Great information. Three weeks ago this would have been confusing but after much reading - it's starting to look more clear for me. Because of this thread- it really broke it down for me. I plan on switching to pure organic and nothing but water.

As far as your watering - what do you do? 

Tap water? R/O Water? Do you ph it at all? 

I see with your mix I can pretty much find everything off amazon but the hi-cal lime. Fedco seems to be one of few places that carry it.


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 26, 2013)

Nice C4! Glad I could make sense of some things for you lol. I'm still making sense of everything myself lol! But I'm getting there!
Everything that I've found relevant I've posted here tho, so everything you need to know how to grow organic should be here! If you miss anything, or can't find anything you're looking for, please let me know so I can add it bro!

*But as far as the watering goes, I use tap water*. I live near mountains and streams tho, so my guess is that the "city" water is pretty good out here.
*Tap water is full of stuff that makes it safe for use to drink, but also things like chlorine and chloramines which give plants problems...*
*The chlorine dissolve from the water when you let it sit anywhere from 24-48 hours before using it.* 
I let my water sit for 2-3 days always as a norm.
The chloramines can take up to a week to dissolve if they are present but I haven't had a problem with them...Like Cholorine, it dissipates with time!
*You can help rid them both of your water by bubbling it for a couple days(with a cheap fish tank pump) before you use it.*

R/O is a WASTE OF MONEY unless you're using well water or water with an outta control ph, or your water is treated with chloromines and you can't get it to dissipate.. 
Between rain water and tap water, I'd rank it no. 3 in the order I'd use them. 
If I had it my way I'd use only rain water. But can't collect it right now, so I'm using tap. 
R/O has absolutely NOTHING benefical in it...Its pure water...
So lets say you should safely go with tap water if you can manage it! I've got a couple friends having prob with well water, so if you use well water you're gonna have to take measures to make that water less hard and to adjust the pH.

*And speaking of pH, I don't pH at all. 
I don't pH the tap water before I water my girls, and I don't pH the AACTs that I use on them!
I pH'd my soil when I broke the bag open just to see what it would be straight outta the bag and it was 6.5.*
Afterwards, I amended the soil, and didn't pick up the pH meter again.
*When you have a good living soil full of compost and earthworm castings you've won your pH battle.
These two things alone will keep you ph stable, so it's IMPORTANT to add enough of each, and get the best quality product of each that you can source*.

*And lastly, you can find everything on Amazon I'm sure bro, and if you can't find hi-cal lime, dolomite lime will do just fine.*
The only difference between hi cal and dolomite lime are their cal/mag ratios. Both are good tho.

Good luck champ


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## c4ulater (Mar 26, 2013)

Thanks for your fast reply. Bubblers huh? I'll be getting that soon then! I have extra buckets laying around so no need for a fish tank! Woohoo.

I just posted in the Introduce Yourself section.


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## c4ulater (Mar 27, 2013)

For the *Indonesian Hi-P Bat Guano (.5-13-.2) *, did you mean .5-12.2? Can't find one with "13" in it.


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 27, 2013)

Mine says 13 boss, but theres no difference really between a 13 and a 12 in that regard!
Just looked around at Amazon and I saw some that said 12 too! But that's just a minor detail bro!

All that means is that if you buy a 2.2lb bag of Hi-P Bat Guano, either 12 or 13% of that is phosphorous by volume, or in a 100lbs of it, there will be 12-13lbs P.
The mycos that you add to the soil help free up that P! I figure we've got ample enough P in the soil between the Tomato tone and Bat Guano. 

But grab the one with the highest P value! 12 or 13 will work tho. 
It's also a few dollars cheaper in the grow stores than is is in Amazon, but def. worth it bro!


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## c4ulater (Mar 27, 2013)

Indeed. Can purchase everything but three things from my local store . At least my local "online" store says they sell it on their online store.. I'm only assuming they'll have it in stock! Hah.

Thanks man. Still learning. I figured it wasnt much of a difference - but wouldn't hurt to ask.


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## schuylaar (Mar 27, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Hi All,
> Happy 11/7/12 to those of you in Washington St. and Colorado!
> I'm somewhat of a newbie, but not totally as I've done my fair part of lurking on these forums without an account, and reading different books, and online articles..Mainly all the different forums..
> Anyhow I decided to post here as I found it to be quite informative in comparison to a lot of the other forums..
> ...


imo you don't need all of that..other than dolamite lime..less is more..if you want yield it's all about roots and light, NOTHING you can put in your soil will equate to what a large, healthy root system
can yield..NOTHING..imo you are wasting your money as well as taking what professional's have done for you by purchasing their product..perlite in ff soil is plenty and then your ADDING more AND peat..i ran out one day went to home depot cause i didn't want to go all the way to hydro and bought canadian organic soil BIG mistake after 48 hours, i was MORE than happy to go back out to hydro..waiting outside before he opened! checkout my journal and you will see what i mean..lol everybody "doctors" and then they have to come back to forum crying about "whats wrong with this"?


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 27, 2013)

Well thanks for the input! To each his own yo 

Ps. I posted that post back in November and I haven't had to buy anything new since I've started which was back in October....
I'll probably have to re-up after my 4th or 5th harvest..And then I'll only be spending about $50 on amendments to use for the next 5 grows. So that $150 i invested initally will gave gotten me thru that many grows without going back to the hydro store.
As time passes, the less I spend...

There are a lot of books out there for you if your interested in why I'm doing what I'm doing yooo.
Or you can just cruise thru this organic section or the one @ grasscity.
But if not, to each his own like I said


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## schuylaar (Mar 27, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Well thanks for the input! To each his own yo
> 
> Ps. I posted that post back in November and I haven't had to buy anything new since I've started which was back in October....
> I'll probably have to re-up after my 4th or 5th harvest..And then I'll only be spending about $50 on amendments to use for the next 5 grows. So that $150 i invested initally will gave gotten me thru that many grows without going back to the hydro store.
> ...


do i detect.. patronization?..almost like a "ha ha ha little lady, you just go on over there and sit down.. while WE men folk talk grow"

i'll be journaling my recycling can grow in a day or so with pics..stop by and check it out!


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 27, 2013)

You can't read into my text lol. You should detect what you read lol.
No belittlement..No loyalty to Fox Farms. Just doing my own thing and FFOF just happens to be a part of it.
And rather than trying a bunch of different soils out, I found one that worked and decided to work with it. 

Do you bro. Success.

Besides lol *VOID ALL YOUR RESPONSES *and keep it moving lol. *I HAVE NOT* invested $150 in a carbon scrubber/fan for my setup!!! *#YESSSS!*

#LaterYO


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## SOMEBEECH (Mar 27, 2013)

schuylaar said:


> imo you don't need all of that..other than dolamite lime..less is more..if you want yield it's all about roots and light, NOTHING you can put in your soil will equate to what a large, healthy root system
> can yield..NOTHING..imo you are wasting your money as well as taking what professional's have done for you by purchasing their product..perlite in ff soil is plenty and then your ADDING more AND peat..i ran out one day went to home depot cause i didn't want to go all the way to hydro and bought canadian organic soil BIG mistake after 48 hours, i was MORE than happy to go back out to hydro..waiting outside before he opened! checkout my journal and you will see what i mean..lol everybody "doctors" and then they have to come back to forum crying about "whats wrong with this"?


SAY What You ever think you might be able to improve the root system by ammending........I call bullshit.I agree FF is good out of the bag,but to say nothing you put in the soil will help the root system is ubber nonsense.
Beech


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## schuylaar (Mar 27, 2013)

SOMEBEECH said:


> SAY What You ever think you might be able to improve the root system by ammending........I call bullshit.I agree FF is good out of the bag,but to say nothing you put in the soil will help the root system is ubber nonsense.
> Beech


nothing you put in your soil can "equate" to the same thing as intense lights and root development..


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 27, 2013)

Why are you even in the Organics area if that's the way you feel?


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## schuylaar (Mar 27, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Why are you even in the Organics area if that's the way you feel?


what difference does it make to you the specific forum i post in and why?..all i'm saying is you boys love to play and stick your fingers in, instead listening to the plant..kind of like what you do to women..kiss..keep it simple stupid!


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 27, 2013)

You posted here just to say everything that I've done is irrelevant. 
Ok....I get your point...and don't have a problem with it..

But you know all your responses are voided right?! You shouldn't be here lol.
im not qualified according to your sig haha. You just keep posting these void posts haha

Cool out man! I'm trying to work over here lol. 

There are a few more threads like this one! If u really wanna be the bad guy, maybe you should copy and paste your OP to the other 7 organic soil threads on this same page! You might get the reaction you're looking for from on one of those threads!

Or maybe you'll get ignored..or blocked...prob flamed then ignored...or a combination of both by several ppl lol.
whatever floats ur boat. I'm done replying to you tho..good luck guy


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## schuylaar (Mar 27, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> You posted here just to say everything that I've done is irrelevant.
> Ok....I get your point...and don't have a problem with it..
> 
> But you know all your responses are voided right?! You shouldn't be here lol.
> ...


case in point^^^^^^


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 27, 2013)

Some #Bumpwork. Finally!


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 28, 2013)

#mythbusting.
#scratchingthesurface 







































And More to come


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 28, 2013)

A bit more about Compost Teas! Even if you already know it!
#moretocome


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## igotdatdro (Mar 28, 2013)

That was a lot of reading. The more you know the more you grow!


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 28, 2013)

4sure brother! Bout to finish that last segment off right now with the last piece from that book 
I know it's a lot of the same ishh in different ways, but that's how I learn best haha. Just seeing thing over and over again until I've absorbed them for good lol.
Then I move on and eventually get back to it! 

Some more dope info abound bro. #waiiitttttforrrrrritttttt


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 28, 2013)

I'll apologize in advance as the pages might not be in order. Either way the into is here to decypher!





















































































Whew....


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## c4ulater (Mar 29, 2013)

Hey- just wondering . Can you clarify what exactly do you 're-amend? Just the Nutritional and Mineral?


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 29, 2013)

Also more compost and Earthworm castings bro. More "organic" matter essentially, in addition to the nutritional and mineral support.


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## c4ulater (Mar 29, 2013)

Sorry newbish here; define compost for this?


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 29, 2013)

All good bro. *Compost is decayed organic matter technically.*
*The compost brings with it a number of beneficial microbes which are essentially little fertilizer bags.*

Think of the compost as the foundation of the house, of all the beneficial organism that live in your soil and work for you're plants.

You add the compost to add to the microbe count in the used soil, or to improve you're current soils life support system pretty much.
You add the nutritional and mineral amendments to the soil so that the microbes can feast on them, and break them down into plant food rather than "nutrients".
Organic fertilizers don't do anything until they've been cycled by the micro organisms in the living soil. 
Some of the things that we add are broken down over a longer period of time then others, so there's no need to re-amend your soil as much each time(in theory). 

But in the end, I think it's safe to think of re-amending as feeding your soil(the microbes within) and sort or renovating the soil ya know?! 
Building it back it nicely after nature has taken it's course! 
In time you will have built it up so nicely that there will be very little room for improvement, and you'll be able to add less and less...and lesss...In theory 

Compost is prob described like 5 different times in this thread already tho haha! From 5 different books lol 

I'll admit tho....It does take seeing it OVER AND OVER again to get it if you're not from a farming backround lol.
I'm a witty city boy


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## SOMEBEECH (Mar 30, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> 4sure brother! Bout to finish that last segment off right now with the last piece from that book
> I know it's a lot of the same ishh in different ways, but that's how I learn best haha. Just seeing thing over and over again until I've absorbed them for good lol.
> Then I move on and eventually get back to it!
> 
> Some more dope info abound bro. #waiiitttttforrrrrritttttt


Try using your photografic memory........
Beech


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 30, 2013)

I wish my memory was photographic lol! I smoke wayyyyyy to much for that haha! You know I haven't came down since the 1st of the month lol and we've only got a day left in this one! 

I just hope that these second gen guys finish prior to 4/20 man! I'm tooo anxious for the cup!


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## c4ulater (Mar 30, 2013)

FUCK I knew what compost was, but not in the way you were saying it. Damnit I feel like an idiot. Haha anyways. OMW to buy a bin and make my own compost. Yay for wait.....  Might as well start my worm farm.. Got to find red wigglers.. ASKdAKJSDKAJSDKAJSD


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## SOMEBEECH (Mar 30, 2013)

The Sunleaves Worm Farm turns kitchen waste into rich, all-natural fertilizer that&#8217;s great for any garden. The farm is a four-layer home for red wiggler worms, which will eagerly devour those unwanted food scraps and other wastes. Fill each layer with things like egg shells, newspaper strips and fruit peels and watch as the worms transform it into rich, dark soil. The bottom of the farm also houses a collection tray for &#8220;worm tea,&#8221; a nutrient-rich liquid byproduct that results from the decomposition and processing of all the natural waste in the farm. This unit, when used properly, is virtually odorless and can be used indoors all year or outdoors so long as the temperature remains between 50° and 85°F. Gardeners will love this environmentally friendly and resourceful way to produce their own fertilizer right at home. 





108.00 bucks.
Beech


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 30, 2013)

LOL  

A few flat tupperware containers, a lid, a stool, a spigot and some holes! 
I'm about to make a micro version of that and get it wiggling HA!

Certainly enough worm bin threads to learn from


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## c4ulater (Mar 30, 2013)

I already have a worm bin made, just need to get my reg wigglers mayne!

Just got back in from dinner - bought my trash can bin for compost making! Woot.


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## SOMEBEECH (Mar 30, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> LOL
> 
> A few flat tupperware containers, a lid, a stool, a spigot and some holes!
> I'm about to make a micro version of that and get it wiggling HA!
> ...


Well excuse me.
Beech


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## igotdatdro (Mar 30, 2013)

I just skimmed over the compost teas recipes, and I was wonder how did you come up wit your scaled down version the ones listed? Seeing how they on some 50gal type ish. Or did you just learned what needed to be added and kind of winged it from there?


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 30, 2013)

@SomeB You good lol. Don't be mad when you see me with one lol


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 30, 2013)

igotdatdro said:


> I just skimmed over the compost teas recipes, and I was wonder how did you come up wit your scaled down version the ones listed? Seeing how they on some 50gal type ish. Or did you just learned what needed to be added and kind of winged it from there?


Hell yeah I started out just trying some of this and some of that after learning what everything did(like brew fungi or bacteria).
The more I started reading the more I started trying things.
If you give your plants something they don't like they'll tell you within a day or two I feel like.
Likewise, if you give them something they like, they'll show you with a nice green color and nice growth..

Any say the give you a recipe to brew 50 gals and you wanna brew 5 gals or even 1 like I do, you can just scale their recipes down to fit you needs.
The more you read the more it'll click bro. There was a time when I was looking at all this like japanese lol.
Seems like that was yesterday lol 

And as far as the tea brewers and measuring shit in the lab lol, a lot of that I feel like is ppl trying to sell their products.
You can look at your plants and see whether or not if what you're doing is working ya know.


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## igotdatdro (Mar 30, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Hell yeah I started out just trying some of this and some of that after learning what everything did(like brew fungi or bacteria).
> The more I started reading the more I started trying things.
> If you give your plants something they don't like they'll tell you within a day or two I feel like.
> Likewise, if you give them something they like, they'll show you with a nice green color and nice growth..
> ...


I can dig it basically it's cause and affect the way I want to go about it is kinda what your doing now for your next set-up. Which is to build the soil up first so you only need to water simple and less problematic IMO to go about it like that but some TEA never hurt nobody


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 30, 2013)

Hell yeah bro. The plants produces fluids from their roots called exudates which signal to microbes what nutes they want!
So I set everything up so that the plants and the soil can politic healthily lol!
No nutes needed just a tea from time to time!

I'm gonna give one of my plants tea for every watering, one plant no tea and give the rest tea sometimes and see how they all respond!
Since you been following me you prob see that I've tried almost everything once already lol! 
I think it's a good idea to experiment much as possible so that you get all the different experience as fast as possible ya know?!

My first grow I focused on the soil and plant training/growth manipulation and I feel I got both down pact, so next grow i'll focus on AACTs more closely and cloning!
Little by little til I got it all on smash boss!

#KnowledgeIsPower
@Cannabication


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## c4ulater (Mar 31, 2013)

My compost bin is filled - and sitting out! Now to light one up and let time fly by for 8-12wks.. I wont accept anything less than GOLD!


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 31, 2013)

Very nice bro! Do *NOT* settle for anything less than gold lol!
Push it to the limit


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## c4ulater (Mar 31, 2013)

Thanks dewd. Tmrw morning I'm going to hit up that Red Wiggler place and grab some w0rms. Did u start ur farm yet?

I got a 32gal trash can from Walmart in the garden section. It has a twist-lock-able lid. I drilled holes all on the side and top . Makes it easy to roll to get a good mix going on - & it was cheap!!!

What are you doing for a worm bin brother?


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 31, 2013)

Nice idea for the worm farm boss!! Gotta post that for sure and let me know how it works for ya.
But if you look at the last page of my other thread in the sig, you'll see the worm bin that I'll go ahead and order tomorrow.

I was gonna go DIY and just make one but I figured I'd treat myself haha! The first of many to come given that I'm not paying for smoke anymore!
But I found and $80.00 w/free shipping on Amazon that I'll go ahead and buy. $80 is a Q of weed lol. That's like 4 days smoke for me haha!
Now that I ain't kickin' out that $80.00, I'll go ahead and start putting back into the Op!
And I've found a place locally to get red wigglers, so that's nothing but a trip to the store!
The worm bin will be 2 days after I order it tho due to Amazon Prime! 

Gotta love Amazon Prime!


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## c4ulater (Mar 31, 2013)

Amazon shits on eBay with the shipping. Big time!

That's sick man. I like DIY's.. Gives me something to do! And bragging rights! Lol..

Red Wigglers are like 45mins away from me C_C . I gave up trying to dig them up. My back yard has holes all over it randomly from trying. Lol

Yeah dude.

I'm excited to get good compost. AND Castings!


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## Sincerely420 (Mar 31, 2013)

Hell yeah bro! I'm excited for ya!
And in regards to the shipping, eBay has nada on Amazon I agree haha!
Keep me posted for sure bro


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 1, 2013)

http://www.homesessive.com/view/unexpected-items-you-shouldnt-throw-away?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl18|sec3_lnk2&pLid=290551 

Check it out!


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## Shwagbag (Apr 4, 2013)

Hey S420 how much does your local shop get for FFOF?


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 4, 2013)

$22 for the big bag bro(1.5cu ft.). You get 2.5 cu ft. of the Happy Frog for the same price!

Not gonna need to buy anymore for a while tho boss! *Straight recycling it ALL*!

I know it's cheaper some places but I can't complain about the price lol. Not even!
What you get it for?


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## Shwagbag (Apr 4, 2013)

I think my local place is 15 bucks?

I was curious because I thought I found a good deal online but it turns out it was the 12 quart bags lol. I hope the recycling works out great for you.


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 5, 2013)

Lol yeah....No! That's no bueno! You dont have a local place to score it?

They have that bio terra plus as well! That canna "specific" mix! Didn't pick it up tho because its coir based, but is good to know from a "veganic" standpoint. But right now bro, im MAX content with my white organic ashes!

And thx brother 

Moment of truth coming up soon! I'm not sweating tho lol!


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## Shwagbag (Apr 5, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Lol yeah....No! That's no bueno! You dont have a local place to score it?
> 
> They have that bio terra plus as well! That canna "specific" mix! Didn't pick it up tho because its coir based, but is good to know from a "veganic" standpoint. But right now bro, im MAX content with my white organic ashes!
> 
> ...


Yep I have a local vendor and they're cheap. I stumbled upon what I thought was a good deal and it turns out notsomuch. I think I'm aiming for a really diverse soil mix this time. I have so many ideas its hard to decide what to do lol. I have a lot on hand that id like to get rid of.

I was thinking a blend of several different soils and composted manures. Then add my choice of amendments for macros and micros. PS I ordered 20 lbs of tomato tone! Not sure if I will use it in the mix or just as a dressing just yet though.


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 5, 2013)

Nice! And awesome homie in regards to the Tomato tone! It's def. a GREAT choice for an amendment and is de. a step in the right direction when you wanna go with diversity haha! Look at the label on that stuff! Like 5 different kinda meals in it and some micros!
I'd pulverized it(make it more powdery) and add it to the soil and let the microbes get at it bro!
Topdressing is effective but not as effective as an AACT! Takes a couple weeks to a cuple months for a top dressing t do its do..
Some work faster than others depending on the amendment used yo topdress, but none instant like AACTs....But maybe EWCS...

And I think that the Fox Farms Oceans Forest is another step in that direction bro! Which is why I chose to start with it!
It is ABSOLUTELY LOADED with amendments bro! All sorts of things that a good soil mix asks for, and that weed loves!

I feel like mixing a lot of different soils could help add some diversity, but IDK how much!
I haven't found a ready made soil with as much as FFOF has within, other than subs supersoil haha! And damn if that mix ain't LOADED!
And I'd hit whodat up too bro! He mixed a lot of different shits(manures) together in his latest mix lol! Also quite a bit of amendments....Prob moreso than in supersoil lol!

But I told you I went with as little as possible to add as much to the soil as I can! Kelp Meal and Tomato Tone are two amendments that I think would take you from start to finish with the addition of a little mycos! Kelp is full of growth horomones and micros. The tomato tone and soil cover the big 3(npk)
I added the Hi-P Bat Guano just to sure up the P part of things, and add thoes valuable nematicides to the soil that the guano brings!
Adding compost to the mix introduces tho microbes that turn the amendments into nutrients, so don't forget to add that in your next mix, as well as some EWCs giving their N fixing properties! 

What kinda different soils you thinking bout mixing bro?


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## Shwagbag (Apr 5, 2013)

Morning! I've been following whoD for awhile. He's one of the best growers on this site IMO. 


I'm considering this.

1 bale of pro-mix BX = 3.8 cu ft
2 bags FFOF = 3 cu ft
1 bag roots organics = 1.5 cu ft
Total of 12 cu feet

That's the base im considering plus another another dozen or so additives including compost mix from kelp 4 less and 50-75 lbs of castings.

For bag soil I really prefer Roots over FFOF but Im leaning towards a lighter base this time. Roots is coco based and ffof is peat and hummus based which makes it much lighter. The main thing I don't like about subs mix is the density.


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 5, 2013)

Looks good to me bro as far as the base goes! Def. will stretch a LONGGGGGGGG way especially when you add more EWCs and some compost maybe.

One thing I've learned tho, is that compost/humus based soils are much more forgiving than coir based soil simply because they have a higher CEC(cation exchange capacity), so they retain more or everything, and buffer the pH a better...
That's why ONLY reason I went with FFOF over Fox Farm Happy Frog as a novice!! Not I consider myself an amateur on the come up haha!

Ans sucks for the super soil as far as it being too dense. Just looking at the recipe for the mix, it's SOOOOO damn nutrient rich that it almost seems like too much is added to it!!!!
But yeah, everything sounds good boss! For 12 cu ft. of soil, you should need to add anywhere from 36-48cups of amendments in total. That not including your EWCs and compost! Just mineral and nutritional amendments!

I'd say do some diggin on Kelp Meal or hit @cannabication up and look for the little power point presentation I made to help me learn what my nutes do/how they work! Kelp meal can be used in the soil double time( added in two separate parts for mineral and nutritional purposes)!
The tomato tone will suit you for sure and then maybe add something with a bit more P, and don't FORGET THE MYCOS!!!!

They don't do much or really anything when you amend the soil with them as they need roots to do their do...But they will remain in the soil as dormant spores...
I think, in fact I know you're gonna be good man...Just a lil back tracking for you and bada bing bada boom! Back to your Jordan-esqe ways haha!

Just hit the lasses with what should be their last or maybe second to last AACT tho, and they're looking so damn good man. Nice and green and chunked up in ALL the right places hahah!

But lastly bro...As you've seen with this crop lol, and the 3 harvested, other than the molasses OD I haven't had one problem!
So with that said, I wouldn't hesitate to jump on my simple mix and see how it works for ya boss!
I'll be tweaking my mix ONLY the slightest from time to time to see what I can do better, but I think I got lucky and got really close the first mix, so the second mix just did it on em lol


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## whodatnation (Apr 5, 2013)

Boy I wish this was like the matrix and I could "download" all this info... Next best thing is using good ol fashion eyeballs lol. My old neighbor was a speed reader, he described it as reading four lines each time he goes across. wow.





Shwagbag said:


> Morning! I've been following whoD for awhile. He's one of the best growers on this site IMO.
> 
> 
> I'm considering this.
> ...



 well you have the best av on all of RIU how about that!

That mix sounds like an awesome base. Diversity is VERY important to getting the highest quality product. Microbes with a more divers diet will help the plant gain more complex flavors and smells. Diversity diversity diversity, the key to any successful ecosystem.





^^^ oh about the hair, I cut this mop off my head the other day and tossed it into the compost lol been doing it. Anything that nots dairy/meat or heavily seasoned food (boiled crawfish/shrimp remains) gets thrown into the compost pile,,, and of course the usual no cat, dog, or human shit either.




All this info is making my head spin! I wouldn't want it any other way though! Mucho thanks for posting all of these wonderful screenshots! I'm gonna get to you soon enough lol.... maybe right after this bowl 




Edit: Id also like to let you know Iv done crops where tea was used for EVERY watering,,, they were on the verg of flipping out of their containers by harvest (hanging like crazy)


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 6, 2013)

True about that ass lol! And cheers bro!

All I do is read the stuff I got over and over again until I know it lol.
I test myself every once in a while by going on sprees answering questions lol or adding anything useful that I've learned!
It feels good to be putting all this work in and watching it come to fruit right?!
And makes me wonder how ppl could EVER fail if they started with a good soil!

And no doubt about trying to share it all bro. If it works for me then it should work for the next person just as well.
All the screenshots are from the Cannabication archive lol. I'm in that matrix "downloading" everything lol.
Literally can't get enough bro 

And I noticed you went hard and heavy with the AACTs to great success.
Saw that right away! 
I been going almost as hard with much satisfaction!
I had planned to go a bit harder anyways, with teas during the next crop on a plant or two at first, but your thread solidified that for all my next gen bro! So thanks again for just being a step ahead and sharing.

Oh yeah, and what do you think about the way swag bag is brewing his teas?
Said he's been having some issues with his girls and I think it could be the teas he's brewing...
maybe you're the missing piece to the puzzle lol

And lastly, that compost tea manual is where its at bro! Lots of good info abound!
Woke up....hit a j of white widow/bubble gum/blue widow and now I'm about to go to sleep in the clouds haha


#tillthenexttime


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## medical/420 (Apr 7, 2013)

my current recipe: 
6 parts FFOF
3 happy frog
2 pro-mix BX
3 large perlite
1 dry coco coir (2 when wet)
1 worm casting
1tbs azomite


It seems to be working super good.


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 7, 2013)

Nice! Are you water only from start to finish with that mix as well?!

Cheers for the share 420


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## medical/420 (Apr 7, 2013)

my current recipe: 
6 parts FFOF
3 happy frog
2 pro-mix BX
3 large perlite
1 dry coco coir (2 when wet)
1 worm casting
1tbs azomite



Sincerely420 said:


> Nice! Are you water only from start to finish with that mix as well?!
> 
> Cheers for the share 420



well I plant my clones in that mix and veg them in 2-3 gallons, Than i ether transplant
to super soil (subcools recipe made with same mix) or flower them in the 2-3 gallon and only water (or one lite feeding of a organic based bottled nute, or a aact, or some dry organic food). I only get 2 oz if i leave them in the 2-3 gallon and dont feed. but when i put them in a 7-12 gallon contaner they preform beyond my expections....  

But yes with that mix you could do water only for sure


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 7, 2013)

Nice! and thanks for the share again bro! So many different ways to get to the same results! We've got FFOF being used like 15 different ways already in this thread!
I'm just using it as a base(as it's loaded with goodness), and then amending it so I can go water only from start to finish, although I do use AACTs regularly throughout the grow. Pretty much once a week or every other watering until I chop!
*No need to flush* either because there are no chemicals involved in the process!


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## JbGramz (Apr 9, 2013)

Hello all, I too use FFOF and their supplements/feeding schedule but I ran into problems. I was using RODI water Ph 7.2 TDS 0 runoff Ph dropped to 6 had a significant Mg problem. I went to nonfiltered tap water, An Epsom salt foliar spray and limestone added to my 5 gal buckets seem to have corrected the problem.
However, can anyone help me? I am following the FF soil feeding schedule so my plants are fertilized once a week with big bloom, tiger bloom and grow big according to the schedule, but here is my concern: I only water once a week otherwise my girls don't look happy. According to the schedule I am supposed to fertilize every other watering once a week. Should I only fertilize every other week and alternate with just water on the off week? (My girls are in 5 gal buckets watered with 3 quarts of water once a week).
thanks,
JB


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 9, 2013)

Care to share some pics boss?! I could tell you what I see lol, but I don't have enough info from you to help you out bro...

Watering once a week isn't really idea unless you're in the *VERY* early life stages of the plant, which is a time that you wouldn't be feeding, or if you we're you'd be feedling light...So I'm confused. They could very well be thirsty all the time! 

If you have a mg def. adding lime could have helped, but can also raise your pH so be careful with it.

But yeah, I can't really say without more info or you sharing a pic bro..
If you can't post a pic, maybe someone over in the problems section might be skilled enough to tell you whats wrong without pics.
Or maybe someone here sees it IDK, but I'd post over in the problems section too boss! Good luck with the operation


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## SOMEBEECH (Apr 9, 2013)

JbGramz said:


> Hello all, I too use FFOF and their supplements/feeding schedule but I ran into problems. I was using RODI water Ph 7.2 TDS 0 runoff Ph dropped to 6 had a significant Mg problem. I went to nonfiltered tap water, An Epsom salt foliar spray and limestone added to my 5 gal buckets seem to have corrected the problem.
> However, can anyone help me? I am following the FF soil feeding schedule so my plants are fertilized once a week with big bloom, tiger bloom and grow big according to the schedule, but here is my concern: I only water once a week otherwise my girls don't look happy. According to the schedule I am supposed to fertilize every other watering once a week. Should I only fertilize every other week and alternate with just water on the off week? (My girls are in 5 gal buckets watered with 3 quarts of water once a week).
> thanks,
> JB


Nute,Water water nute,Is what id do!Less is better in most cases concerning ferts.Tap is fine and a good source of Mg.
Beech


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## whodatnation (Apr 9, 2013)

Yeah, stick to what beech said. This will still apply when they get bigger and require water more often. I have used their line before, a long time ago, I was not happy except their big bloom is okay, Id much rather give them AACT instead.


edit: also, aint used a drop of r/o EVER. Its only needed when your on a well with hard water, not all wells even need it, mine doesnt need it. All US tap should be just fine considering how regulated it is! I only recently started using well/rain water,,, NEVER had an issue with tap water.


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## Shwagbag (Apr 11, 2013)

JbGramz said:


> Hello all, I too use FFOF and their supplements/feeding schedule but I ran into problems. I was using RODI water Ph 7.2 TDS 0 runoff Ph dropped to 6 had a significant Mg problem. I went to nonfiltered tap water, An Epsom salt foliar spray and limestone added to my 5 gal buckets seem to have corrected the problem.
> However, can anyone help me? I am following the FF soil feeding schedule so my plants are fertilized once a week with big bloom, tiger bloom and grow big according to the schedule, but here is my concern: I only water once a week otherwise my girls don't look happy. According to the schedule I am supposed to fertilize every other watering once a week. Should I only fertilize every other week and alternate with just water on the off week? (My girls are in 5 gal buckets watered with 3 quarts of water once a week).
> thanks,
> JB


I know I sound like a broken record when I post here lol. I had two main issues with FFOF straight from the bag. PH fell under 5.5 when applying PH adjusted water ranged from 6.3-6.6, and I had calcium and magnesium deficiencies in flower. Couple that with RO water and maybe the risk is even higher for micro deficiency. I ended up flushing with ph adjusted water and implementing fertilizers because I couldn't get a handle on it fast enough. It looks like you've made a correction for these issues and its fixed that problem. Be ready for it during flower as well though, and a foliar feed may not be as effective at that point. As S420 said, lime helps to provide cal and mag while raising your PH simultaneously, which you've already done. The problem with limestone or garden lime is that its highly granular and takes can take a long time to break down. If you're using granular limestone I would consider re-applying once you start 12/12. If you get in a pinch with cal/mag or PH deficiencies consider powdered lime for a faster acting option to pull the PH back up and provide soluble nutrients your plants are looking for. If you use it, go easy with it, a little goes a long ways, and one application when necessary should be enough to get you out of a pinch. I also have only been able to find it in 5 lb bags or something like that.

If you're only watering once per week, my first guess would be that your plants haven't filled out their pots yet. I would consider giving them less water per application until they ask for more, meanwhile go with your choice of scheduled feedings. Beech's plan was pretty ideal when I used that lineup. If they haven't filled out their pots yet, I presume they won't need much food given the containers have some left to give. Once they're into flowering a couple weeks a bit more aggressive could be considered.

I'm with WhoD on his feedback of that lineup, FFOF is nice as long as you know what care it needs. Knowing what deficiencies will come next will help you avoid issues with it. It worked fine for me out of the bag, as long as I used lime either in the mix, water or as a top dressing. The nutrient lineup is fine for veg, but I didn't care for it during flower. Open Sesame, Beastie Bloom and Cha-Ching are overpriced, but they do work. My favorite of their products is their Big Bloom too. More for seedlings and clones than for a flowering nutrient though.

Is it possible that you're over watering for their root mass / container size ratio? How long have they been in 5 gallon containers? I like to water around every 3rd day personally. Another thing to consider, when my plants have crept out of PH range, they do uptake less water. Hopefully straightening out your PH will help you there too. A happy plant is thirsty and hungry all the time!

I'm actually having issues with my Super Soil being too alkaline (I presume) and peat seems to be helping to buffer to a more acidic range when mixed with the SS while making it a bit lighter.

Good work getting your PH and cal/mag sorted out, you've won a small battle.


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## JbGramz (Apr 12, 2013)

Thanks for your responses, I have not yet responded because I had an AC unit go out in my grow room and temp got to 102!!! I fear I just baked my grow . To clarify, I only water my flowering girls once a week. Who Dat, what's AACT? As much money as I am dropping on FFOF products, if there is a better organic choice out there I am all ears. Thanks for sharing the knowledge!!


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 12, 2013)

Go back and look the the thread bro. By the time you're made it back here to page 7 you will have learned EVERYTHING about AACT's that you need to know !

If you don't get something along the way, let us know...But basically an AACT is your own homemade organic bottled nutrient!


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## texin (Apr 12, 2013)

I add a few things to my FFOF

Jamaican guano
Indonesian guano
mexican guano
ewc
buffaloam
mykos extreme gardening
garden lime (dolomite)
The first watering I give them ewc tea 
I will make a tea every once and awhile and give them
Around week 5 I hit it with the earth juice line up


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 12, 2013)

texin said:


> I add a few things to my FFOF
> 
> Jamaican guano
> Indonesian guano
> ...


Looks like a winner to me for sure bro!
First time I've EVER seen the name Buffaloam, but just looked it up to be buffalo compost?!
Sounds promising to me bro!

I see that you didn't have any perlite tho?? You don't add anymore to the soil??


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## texin (Apr 12, 2013)

Lol yes I do add perlite about 40 percent It stays way to moist with out the perlite. I like the buffaloam for sure.


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## texin (Apr 12, 2013)

Dam I forgot the bone meal I add to. Thats it


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 12, 2013)

Looks like you could do it without the bonemeal honestly! But thx for replying bro! Sure you post will help somebody!
And good luck in the near future boss


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## texin (Apr 12, 2013)

Right on Thanks. I just started using bone meal in the soil to see if there where any pros, but your right its perfect for me with out the bone meal. Kelp meal and alfalfa meal are really good in the mix.


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## texin (Apr 12, 2013)

And while we are talking about FFOF they seem to have a gnat problem every once in awhile. I will have to add a small layer of sand on the top of the soil to kill them off.


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 12, 2013)

That's wassup boss! I've seen a few ppl say that, and I find it so interesting because I've gone thru 4 bags and not seen a bug yet?!

Maybe it has to do with where you get it from?! IDK 

But sands helps huh?! 
I wasn't aware of that so thanks fo sharing for sure 

Another amendment to grab if you're having bug probs is neem meal!


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## texin (Apr 12, 2013)

Ya I use azamax I think i spelled it right it kills any bug. It has neem oil in it. I have gone through atleast 80 bags of FFOF over the years so it every once in awhile you will get a gnat bag. The sand stops them from breeding or escaping the soil.


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 12, 2013)

80:4 

You:Me lol and here I am trying to give you advice lol!
And I've heard of Azamax but lucking haven't had to ue anything of that nature yet! Let me go knock on wood tho ha!

But hey, I'll def. keep my eyes peeled and remember what you told me in the event I do see one haha!
Got some green sand just laying around haha and it probably will be for a while!

But cheer bro


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## Shwagbag (Apr 12, 2013)

Oh shit, someone said Azamax :O

I found this out by accident.... Topping with a nice dose of castings helps to combat them too. I had gnats for the better part of two years and tried half a dozen remedies. The castings dry out and crust up so their larvae can't survive. DIEDIEDIE!

S420, get some Azamax and put it in a safe place. Consider it to your garden as your 12 gauge is to your home's protection LOL.


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 12, 2013)

Shwagbag said:


> Oh shit, someone said Azamax :O
> 
> I found this out by accident.... Topping with a nice dose of castings helps to combat them too. I had gnats for the better part of two years and tried half a dozen remedies. The castings dry out and crust up so their larvae can't survive. DIEDIEDIE!
> 
> S420, get some Azamax and put it in a safe place. Consider it to your garden as your 12 gauge is to your home's protection LOL.


Next time I re-up on supplies I'll scoop some without a doubt gentleman!
I def. can't say that I'll NEVER have a gnat problem so it's better I be prepared for sure


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## JbGramz (Apr 14, 2013)

I too had a gnat problem but firewater fixes it no problem.


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 17, 2013)

http://www.weekendgardener.net/organic-fertilizer/molasses-050805.htm 

A+++ Read!


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## Shwagbag (Apr 18, 2013)

OK organic peeps! I need some feedback on a mix recipe. 

7 bags of FFOF = 10.5 ft^3
50# worm castings
Dairy Doo Humified Compost (from cow manure) 2.0 ft^3 Link
Dr. Earth 745 - 7.0# (4-10-7) Link
Epsoma Tomato Tone - 7.0# (3-4-6) Link
N bat guano - 5#
P bat guano - 10 cups
Powdered lime - 4 cups
Epsom salts - 2 cups
Kelp meal - 2#
Humic acid - 4 cups
Azomite - 6 cups
Dimaceous Earth - 4 cups 

Mix it, hit it with tea and cook that shit for a couple weeks and make dank.

What do you think? Comments please and thanks! I'm thinking a small boost in Potassium wouldn't hurt? IDK, I'm digging the mix between Dr. Earth 745 and Tomato Tone.


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 18, 2013)

Some places have # bro. What's that mean?
Wanna know what everything means before I give you an opinion boss 

And all the K that you need will come by way of the Dr. Earth, the tomato tone, and kelp meal!

I mix everything up by the cup bro, just to stay consistent lol and the least confused lol. Dry cups in a pound vary depending on what it is.
And I'm saying that in total mineral and nutritional enrichment, you should add between 30-50 cups total brother! 
30 would be cool, 40 would be being safer than sorry, and 50 would be super soil amounts!

And as far as your compost amount, sounds perfect given the fact that you wanna use EWCs! You can figure that one out without a prob.
I'm gonna try the mushroom compost in the next run with the ancient forest I added!
But I think you should have between 3-3.5 cu ft of compost in 10.5 cu ft of mix! 2-2.5 cu ft if you gonna use EWCs, as that's compost in it own!

From there I say add somewhere between 30-40 cups in total, of all you mineral and nutritional amendments. So you're Dr. Earth, Tomato Tone, Kelp Meal, Azomite, Lime, Guanos, and D.E should total between 30-40 cups altogether! 

I do think you could do with some Rock Dust if you can find it!
And don't for get to go ahead an inoculate the soil with mycos, so that they'll be there when the roots come looking!


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## Shwagbag (Apr 18, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Some places have # bro. What's that mean?
> Wanna know what everything means before I give you an opinion boss
> 
> And all the K that you need will come by way of the Dr. Earth, the tomato tone, and kelp meal!
> ...


Thanks dOOd!

I think I have some Rock dust on hand. As for the #, say it loud. # = pound. Its what S420 does to pussy.

I agree, I think I'm good on K. 

Among those amendments I should be over 50 cups of amendments. I figure I'd rather be too hot than too light, I can always cut it with Pro-Mix like I'm doing now if its a little rich. I wish I would have done it before I got so low on super soil though, I'll have to jump in with both feet. I'll inoculate with subcultures A & B that we were talking about awhile back. I forgot about the ancient forest, I'll throw a bag of that in there too lol.

Have you looked at Dr. Earth products? They have some sweet shit mang! 100% organic POTting Soil lol. And every organic additive you can think of pretty much. 

Link


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## Shwagbag (Apr 18, 2013)

There's a good chance I'll be subsituting the guanos for blood meal and fish bone meal. I bought 25 lbs of each of them last time I prepped for a mix lol. I need to liquidate some stuff. Second thought, I don't think I need either guano or fish bone meal added with the amounts of ferts I'm putting in. I just thought I would add a little guano for the diversity. Def needs some extra N though so i think the blood meal or N guano is needed.


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 18, 2013)

Shwagbag said:


> Thanks dOOd!
> 
> I think I have some Rock dust on hand. As for the #, say it loud. # = pound. Its what S420 does to pussy.
> 
> ...


Lol I'm an idiot for not seeing that you meant pound lol. I kept saying "hashtag" lol. "Twitter".
And indeed that's what I do lol! 

And I'd say you wanna be too light rather than too hot boss, because you compost content will handle a lot of probs for you as far as nutritional content.
The mycos will also help things out.
But they don't really count the compost as a fertilizer becuause they can't efficient measure the NPK content on compost on a mass scale..
Notice it never has an NPK...But we all know it VERY nutritious!
Not too mention the use of the AACTs. I'd say you don't wanna be heavy if you're gone use those heavily you know.

You've already had issues being too hot lol. So I'd go opposite that and see wassup.
You literally can't account for the NPK in the compost tho...But think of it as a nutrional amendment.

What you think now?!

And as soon as I run outta the things I've have now I'm gonna start looking again! Haven't thought about it in a while tho, other than looking for compost and EWCs ya know?! But I'll def check the Dr. Earths out bro! Anything you suggest I'm gonna give it a peep!

And of course I'll hit you back for advice when I'm mixing the next batch lol! So make sure you stay ready for homie! 

Caregiver just brought over some canna oil and I am SKY HIGH bro! I'm PERCULATING haha!
He made it outta the first batch of kif I got!


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 18, 2013)

Shwagbag said:


> There's a good chance I'll be subsituting the guanos for blood meal and fish bone meal. I bought 25 lbs of each of them last time I prepped for a mix lol. I need to liquidate some stuff. Second thought, I don't think I need either guano or fish bone meal added with the amounts of ferts I'm putting in. I just thought I would add a little guano for the diversity. Def needs some extra N though so i think the blood meal or N guano is needed.


And look at the labels of the Tomato Tone and Dr. Earth bro! You'll see blood meal and fish bone meal I'm sure!
Remember you already went hot and had issues lol! So less try from the other end right?!
And you're gonna get a TON of N fixed from you compost content and your EWCS. EWCs are constant, pure N bro!
I would keep that guano as it has addition properties like mineralization and it's good for the surpression of harmful nematodes in the soil boss!


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## Shwagbag (Apr 18, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Lol I'm an idiot for not seeing that you meant pound lol. I kept saying "hashtag" lol. "Twitter".
> And indeed that's what I do lol!
> 
> And I'd say you wanna be too light rather than too hot boss, because you compost content will handle a lot of probs for you as far as nutritional content.
> ...


Yeah I'm struggling with these fertilizer mixes to find the right amounts. I don't really want to use AACTS anymore, I think I'd prefer going back to mostly water and microbial teas every 10 to 14 days, just keep inoculating basically. I'm going to measure out a few cups of each of those ferts tomorrow and see how many cups are in a pound. 

Super Soil uses 5# each of blood meal, fish bone meal and P guano plus 3 lbs of rock phosphate (granular for slower release). So I figured 15 lbs of the tomato tone and Dr. Earth 745 would be a fair equivalent for them + the kelp meal. I'm not sure I even need the N/P guano or blood meal/fish bone meal really but its worth discussing! If I feel the mix is light on something I can also dump the shit out of the cans and mix it up again and it wouldn't take much time. Also, like you said I'm using more compost than I normally do, I think the most I've ever used is 1 bag or .5 cubic feet in the batch of 12 cubic feet of soil. So I'm basically using 4 times that with less soil so I end up with about the same volume of soil mix.

Enjoy your buzz! I didn't smoke today  I'll be getting blazed after work tomorrow tho! Ttyl, I'll check back in tomorrow.


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## Shwagbag (Apr 18, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> And look at the labels of the Tomato Tone and Dr. Earth bro! You'll see blood meal and fish bone meal I'm sure!
> Remember you already went hot and had issues lol! So less try from the other end right?!
> And you're gonna get a TON of N fixed from you compost content and your EWCS. EWCs are constant, pure N bro!
> I would keep that guano as it has addition properties like mineralization and it's good for the surpression of harmful nematodes in the soil boss!


Very good point, they should both be in there lol. That's the main reason I wanted the Guano in there is for other purposes. Attaboi, I'll shelf the blood and bone meal. I hope the gf wants to do some planting outdoors this year lol.

EDIT:

Duuuuuude, I just thought of something as I looked at my Querkle maturing. I was thinking I need to add more carbs to these hookers and bulk them up more and help feed the herd between tea applications. And I thought, I wonder if you can add carbs to the soil mix. And I thought, is there such a thing as powdered mollasses? And it turns out, yes there is! I know we all hate using mollasses, damn messy thick sticky shit. 

I just ordered some more powdered humic acid, azomite and dry mollasses. Just a heads up, do not store your humic acid in a humid environment, it causes it to "chunk" and it doesn't like to dissolve in a chunky state lol.


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 19, 2013)

Def gonna get some humid acid boss!
Just gonna wait till the next run! 
And yep, powdered molasses is basically molasses sprayed on grain then dried bro!
Was looking at that a couple nights ago, but the kelp and alfalfa in the mix also add growth hormones!
And Azomite and bat guano are the new additions in the current soil mix that weren't in the last, and these buds are much more chunky than before, so I def. approve of them haha! 

We gotta get up in our foliar too! Some aloe and coconut water for the leaves during veg!
coat the leaves with a lil layer you know?! Like putting lotion or moisturizer on the skin u know?!
Nice post lad


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 19, 2013)

Shwagbag said:


> Yeah I'm struggling with these fertilizer mixes to find the right amounts. I don't really want to use AACTS anymore, I think I'd prefer going back to mostly water and microbial teas every 10 to 14 days, just keep inoculating basically. I'm going to measure out a few cups of each of those ferts tomorrow and see how many cups are in a pound.
> 
> Super Soil uses 5# each of blood meal, fish bone meal and P guano plus 3 lbs of rock phosphate (granular for slower release). So I figured 15 lbs of the tomato tone and Dr. Earth 745 would be a fair equivalent for them + the kelp meal. I'm not sure I even need the N/P guano or blood meal/fish bone meal really but its worth discussing! If I feel the mix is light on something I can also dump the shit out of the cans and mix it up again and it wouldn't take much time. Also, like you said I'm using more compost than I normally do, I think the most I've ever used is 1 bag or .5 cubic feet in the batch of 12 cubic feet of soil. So I'm basically using 4 times that with less soil so I end up with about the same volume of soil mix.
> 
> Enjoy your buzz! I didn't smoke today  I'll be getting blazed after work tomorrow tho! Ttyl, I'll check back in tomorrow.


What you mean by microbial teas boss?!
and yeah I think u def. needed more compost haha! And he'll yeah you can always re amend bro!
if you add anything that needs to be cycled tho, like any more ferts, you have to cook the soil again for 30 days.
you can always add compost and EWCs tho, because they don't burn! I think everything else we use will!


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 19, 2013)

But bro, whatever you choose to do in the end, we can learn from an build off it! 
I usually isolate the changes I make so I have something to attribute my issues too, so maybe the mix you were killin shit in should be revisited and revised


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## bazookajoe (Apr 19, 2013)

Sup FFOF'ers?? I'm new to the"clean scene", ditchin the chemicals.. count me in this piece! Haha.. seems like a lively bunch up in here! Got my first bag of ffof today along with .5 cu.ft EWC, hi brix molasses, high P and N guanos (2.2#/1#) and EJ microblast. 

Mixed half the ewc's with the ffof and about 2gals of perlite I had on hand. Am I in good shape? Lookin to just add water and an occasional guano and/
or ewc tea.. will that suffice or do I need some extries??


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 19, 2013)

Broo you're gonna be blown away by the taste difference in "organic" and "nonorganic" smoke!
So kudos and congrats to switching boss 

I'd say that you can mix ALL those EWCs into your soil mix if you're using 1 bag of FFOF. 
You do mean the big bag right? 1.5 cu ft?
If so, you should mix a cup of each Bat Guano into your soil mix, as well as all those EWCs!
Don't have to use ALL of the EWC's but the more the better! Make sure you use at least 80-90% of that bag if you don't wanna use it all.

After you mix everything up, water your soil down and let it sit for at least 3wks.
You have to let the microbes in the soil work on the guanos.

Also get some lime if you can. Dolomite lime of hi-cal lime(I use this).

Also that Hi brix Mollases is the same as the stuff you can buy from your grocery store or the grocery section in Wally world!
So no need to buy it again when you run out.

Also get some kelp meal if you can.

Of course you can do without, but if you wanna get from start to finish with water only, it's best you give your girls some help 

Ps, you can also make you own "bottled nutes" in the for of compost teas!
No need to buy anything extra, just use what you have


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## bazookajoe (Apr 19, 2013)

Thanks man.. that's what I've been readin!
Yea I got the 1.5er and ill go ahead n mix the rest of the ewc's in there. I'm tryin to aviod the cooking process if possible due to time restraints(moving in 73 days). Got clones a 1.5wks into veg lookin for 2wks.. week dry time and 60sum days inbetween. I was hopin that the AACT would keep me from havin to cook the mix. But if it doesn't work like that then ill just save the mix for after the move and it'll be super cooked.
When u say water it down..how much water? 
Planned on gettin the dolomite lime but shop owner doesn't carry it bc she doesnt believe in it. So ill hit lowes n get some espoma DL.
I've looked @ WM and other grocery stores for molasses and couldn't find it, but the hi brix was only $5 n some change.for 16oz., but if its cheaper @ the store then ill have a clerk get the shit for me.
10/4 on the kelp meal bro..how much should I add to my measly 1 bag? Same 1 cup like the guanos?
Good lookin out.. HAPPY 4/20 To all!! 



Sincerely420 said:


> Broo you're gonna be blown away by the taste difference in "organic" and "nonorganic" smoke!
> So kudos and congrats to switching boss
> 
> I'd say that you can mix ALL those EWCs into your soil mix if you're using 1 bag of FFOF.
> ...


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## Jozikins (Apr 20, 2013)

Good evening all my wonderful RIU friends  how are your beautiful faces??

Quick question, it's been a while since I've used the FFOF, and I don't plan on doing anything fancy with it yet, I need to vend off another qp first  make dat monayz. But what strength should I use for the FFOF if I'm cutting it with Sunshine Mix #4 for some well rooted and strong clones, still in little 2x2 rockwool starter cubes. I don't plan on adding extra perlite because I would like them to retain moisture while they are still young.

These are going into 1/2 gal or less, by the way. They'll be sitting in my sunroom with artificial lights extending photo period.

EDIT: Never mind, lol. I figured it out. supposedly well rooted clones are fine in FFOF, but I cut it with 2/5 Sunshine anyways.


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## Shwagbag (Apr 20, 2013)

Jozikins said:


> Good evening all my wonderful RIU friends  how are your beautiful faces??
> 
> Quick question, it's been a while since I've used the FFOF, and I don't plan on doing anything fancy with it yet, I need to vend off another qp first  make dat monayz. But what strength should I use for the FFOF if I'm cutting it with Sunshine Mix #4 for some well rooted and strong clones, still in little 2x2 rockwool starter cubes. I don't plan on adding extra perlite because I would like them to retain moisture while they are still young.
> 
> ...


They probby would be fine Jozi, but I prefer to cut everything for clones. I just use pro-mix with blended organics for my cuts to be safe. I hate losing a lady! I usually blend the organics after they leave the dome and are filling out their wee lil containers.


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 20, 2013)

bazookajoe said:


> Thanks man.. that's what I've been readin!
> Yea I got the 1.5er and ill go ahead n mix the rest of the ewc's in there. I'm tryin to aviod the cooking process if possible due to time restraints(moving in 73 days). Got clones a 1.5wks into veg lookin for 2wks.. week dry time and 60sum days inbetween. I was hopin that the AACT would keep me from havin to cook the mix. But if it doesn't work like that then ill just save the mix for after the move and it'll be super cooked.
> When u say water it down..how much water?
> Planned on gettin the dolomite lime but shop owner doesn't carry it bc she doesnt believe in it. So ill hit lowes n get some espoma DL.
> ...


You can't avoid the cooking process lol. Just can't do it!
The microbes within need to cycle those guanos before the plant can use them.

its possible ha u might not burn ur girls, but if u put them in a hit soil it's gonna be ugly for a while, so I'd cook the soil mix no doubt.
otherwise use plain FFOF to get u buy while your mix is cooking. But it's a must bro!

and when I say water it down, do it like you'd do a plant! Don't drown it, but don't leave any dry spots!
i cook my soil for at least at month every time, and I water it with maybe 2 AACTs during that month, and 2 plain watering...water No more than once a week, as once a week will do! 
And same with the kelp meal brother! 1 cup and you'll be good! You could use two cups of the kelp meal and still be good bro!

dont forget your lime too!

happy 4/20 bossman! About to light it up and hit my supplier up lol! Attitude seeds bank!


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 20, 2013)

Jozikins said:


> Good evening all my wonderful RIU friends  how are your beautiful faces??
> 
> Quick question, it's been a while since I've used the FFOF, and I don't plan on doing anything fancy with it yet, I need to vend off another qp first  make dat monayz. But what strength should I use for the FFOF if I'm cutting it with Sunshine Mix #4 for some well rooted and strong clones, still in little 2x2 rockwool starter cubes. I don't plan on adding extra perlite because I would like them to retain moisture while they are still young.
> 
> ...


Let your soil cook a lol bit Jo!

My last 8 seedlings were start in my FFOF mix...
just water it and let it sit for maybe 2 weeks before you use it if you don't wanna burn seedlings!
I haven't burn any with FFOF bro! Thing is, it's nutrient rich str8 outta the bag so you gotta treat it like a super soil and cook it still!

that my opinion at least bro!
happy 4/20 boss!


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 20, 2013)

Shwagbag said:


> They probby would be fine Jozi, but I prefer to cut everything for clones. I just use pro-mix with blended organics for my cuts to be safe. I hate losing a lady!



Nice post homie! Happy 4/20 brother


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## Shwagbag (Apr 20, 2013)

Happy 4/20 to you as well mang!


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 20, 2013)

Bout to hit Attitude up 4 sure man! I'll let you know what I chose here in about an hour!


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 20, 2013)

And happy 4/20 to all my organic mechanics!


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## igotdatdro (Apr 21, 2013)

Interesting piece of info I stubbled upon while reading Uncle Ben's Gardening Tweeks
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%20Chalker-Scott/Horticultural%20Myths_files/Myths/Organic%20superiority.pdf


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 21, 2013)

Nice share! Had to read it in all again bcuz I thought I read that but I didn't!

Just looked like the exact same link another guy threw at me during a debate the other day, and I Googled compost tea problems, and the link he gave was sitting there at the top...
Every knows Google is biased lol, but the link came from the same school at least! They're prob connected even!

But I thought it was a nice read. Confusing but a nice read. 

And I'm not at fan of UBs man.
He knows his shit true indeed, but he speaks down to ppl like he's God and knows everything already. 
I gave up on following him....Def. gonna freak the shitttt outta that early topping idea I learned from his thread! 
My plants are gonna be sitting high and tight bro!

And make sure you study up on your AACT game.
Ppl make noise about them yeah lol, but I was looking around today, and looking at some buds and um.........yeah...I'm GOOD.
Gonna go even harder with the teas when I start the next OP!

Wait till I throw these pics up tho. Straight buds. Not much stem and leaf! Just flowers!


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## Shwagbag (Apr 22, 2013)

Are the cobwebs cleared from 420 weekend? Forgive me if this has been shared here before. 

http://www.compostjunkie.com/compost-tea-recipe.html


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 22, 2013)

How about thank you for sharing it haha and allowing me to steal it and post it elsewhere!
*VERY NICE* share bossman! Smoke to that one


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 22, 2013)

*Delicious Seeds Critical Jack Herer*






#whatareYOUsmoking?!


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## Timewasmoney1 (Apr 22, 2013)

I never used Perlite when using FFoF. Does it help much? Im trying to save as much money as possible as even though i never used perlite in it i wanted a 2nd opinion on adding it


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 22, 2013)

I just add it to be safe bro. I may replace it with something else that is capable of holding and exchanging nutrients in the soil.

But ppl who've posted throughout the thread have used it straight outta the bag w/out, so I'm sure you could pull it off


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 22, 2013)

New soil component! About to beef up my compost diversity baby! This next mix is gonna be prima!


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## Timewasmoney1 (Apr 22, 2013)

Where did you get that at?


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 22, 2013)

Timewasmoney1 said:


> Where did you get that at?


Local garden center boss! PM me if you need more details


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## AimAim (Apr 22, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> New soil component! About to beef up my compost diversity baby! This next mix is gonna be prima!


I buy mushroom mulch by the pickup load (for general gardening bed amendment) right at the facility of a major regional mushroom farm. $30 for as much as they can get in a pickup. They tell me it has 3 main components: wheat straw that has been run through a hammermill (shreader) horse manure, and ammonium nitrate. They grow their shrooms once on it and discard it. It's some real good shit, kinda hot. I bet what you buy bagged has composted/mellowed a bit.

I tell you this because.... I'm kinda high and in a typing mood and thought someone might be interested in what was in mushroom mulch!


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## GandalfdaGreen (Apr 22, 2013)

I have been reading that your mix is not ready until it has some fungus in it. Eye opening stuff. Thanks.


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 22, 2013)

AimAim said:


> I buy mushroom mulch by the pickup load (for general gardening bed amendment) right at the facility of a major regional mushroom farm. $30 for as much as they can get in a pickup. They tell me it has 3 main components: wheat straw that has been run through a hammermill (shreader) horse manure, and ammonium nitrate. They grow their shrooms once on it and discard it. It's some real good shit, kinda hot. I bet what you buy bagged has composted/mellowed a bit.
> 
> I tell you this because.... I'm kinda high and in a typing mood and thought someone might be interested in what was in mushroom mulch!


SPOT ON with the post brother! Your *AIM* is on point in regards to the mushroom compost!
I can smell the ammonium nitrate, so I bet it it still hot! And I was playing in it until I picked up a piece of shit lol!

But I just mixed up my next batch of "*SuperB soil"*! I mix the mushroom compost in at a rate of 1 gallon to every 3 gallons soil!
Also inoculated the soil with mycos spores again!

I was wondering what the main components of it were, so thank for that bit of info!
The way I see it, just more diversity and more microbes, which mean more available nutrients at any one time!


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## Shwagbag (Apr 22, 2013)

AimAim said:


> I buy mushroom mulch by the pickup load (for general gardening bed amendment) right at the facility of a major regional mushroom farm. $30 for as much as they can get in a pickup. They tell me it has 3 main components: wheat straw that has been run through a hammermill (shreader) horse manure, and ammonium nitrate. They grow their shrooms once on it and discard it. It's some real good shit, kinda hot. I bet what you buy bagged has composted/mellowed a bit.
> 
> I tell you this because.... I'm kinda high and in a typing mood and thought someone might be interested in what was in mushroom mulch!


That sounds wonderful! Consider yourself lucky 

Wormbin incoming! Link


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## AimAim (Apr 22, 2013)

The raw stuff from the mushroom grow facility is real heavy and wet and looks mostly like dark slimey straw, half decomposed, with some horse shit. It's super stuff and a great deal but 2 out of the last 4 times I went for a load I got a flat tire. Driving an overloaded 1/2 ton truck with highway tires on a gravel road is a bad combination.


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 22, 2013)

Shiiiii man, I'm impressed by your work brother, and just as much by what you know!
So I'm asking you to share* ANYTHING* here that you find relevant to organic gardening! And I mean *ANYTHING*!
I just hoard info and put it here lol!

If you do what you do now in MG and using nutes, I could ONLY IMAGINE what you could do with a living soil working for you man!
Seriously.


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## AimAim (Apr 22, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> If you do what you do now in MG and using nutes, I could ONLY IMAGINE what you could do with a living soil working for you man!
> Seriously.


Yeah I will take that under serious consideration, maybe a goal for next grow, just had a lot of stuff I am figuring out for the first time with this indoor grow. I do understand and agree with organic methods.


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 22, 2013)

AimAim said:


> Yeah I will take that under serious consideration, maybe a goal for next grow, just had a lot of stuff I am figuring out for the first time with this indoor grow. I do understand and agree with organic methods.


Everything you need to get started as far as the basis of knowledge is here throughout the thread boss.
It started more with how I was using my FFOF and I just kinda starting posting relevant stuff that I found regarding organics, then Malignant hit me up and sticked this thread, so I figure I'll try and keep it as informational as possible you know?!


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 23, 2013)

I find it amazing that even having never read this article, I work in an eerily similar fashion!
Im putting my work in and getting closer world! So are you guys if you been paying attention!

http://www.hailmaryjane.com/wisdom-wednesday-feeding-your-plants-with-organic-teas/


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 23, 2013)

http://hightimes.com/read/organic-solutionscompost-teas-healthy-plants


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 23, 2013)

[url]http://www.cannabis.info/UK/library/2810-flush-it-dont-rush-it [/URL]
*
Think Again!!*


----------



## Sincerely420 (Apr 24, 2013)

Ignore all the brand names of the products that they mention! Those are interchangeable.


The knowledge abound is what we're after! 

http://www.downtoearthfertilizer.com/forms/dtegardeningguide.pdf 

and I know it might seem like a lot of the same shiii over and over, but I learn best from seeing the same things in different ways, so Hopefully you can appreciate the fact that you can find info about the same things, from different ppl, all throughout the thread.


----------



## thegreenestthumb420 (Apr 24, 2013)

View attachment 2630051
Here is a pic of my babies. Started as seed in purely Ocean Forest. Then transplanted to my own custom mix with Ocean Forest as the base soil. I am going to experiment with Dr. Earth's Pot of Gold Organic soil. Also using primarily GO nutrients with the addition of Alaskan Fish Fertilizer.


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 24, 2013)

Sounds like a plan bossman! Good luck with it and thanks for sharing!

And IDK why, but for some reason I get nothing from that link bro. Says invalid link blablabla


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## Shwagbag (Apr 24, 2013)

thegreenestthumb420 said:


> View attachment 2630051
> Here is a pic of my babies. Started as seed in purely Ocean Forest. Then transplanted to my own custom mix with Ocean Forest as the base soil. I am going to experiment with Dr. Earth's Pot of Gold Organic soil. Also using primarily GO nutrients with the addition of Alaskan Fish Fertilizer.


That's cool, I like the Dr. Earth stuff, let us know how it works! I just picked up a bag of the POTting soil but haven't tried it yet.


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## Shwagbag (Apr 27, 2013)

Shwagbag said:


> OK organic peeps! I need some feedback on a mix recipe.
> 
> 7 bags of FFOF = 10.5 ft^3
> 50# worm castings
> ...


Mix day! I think S420 will like this one the most of my proposed mixes over the past cpl weeks lol. Feedback pls!
*
12.5 cubic feet of base soil*
2 bags RO 707 - 6 cubic feet
2 bags FFOF - 3 cubic feet
1 bag Happy Frog - 2.0 cubic feet
I bag RO Potting Soil - 1.5 cubic feet

*Castings & composted manure*
75-85 # of castings
4-5 cubic feet of composted manure

*Additives*
Tomato tone - 10 cups
Organic 8 - 10 cups
N guano - 5 cups
P guano - 5 cups
Powdered Lime - 3 cups
Epsom Salts - 2 cups
Kelp Meal - 7 cups
Powdered Humic Acid - 2 cups
Azomite - 2 cups
Crab Meal - 2 cups
Glacial Rock Dust - 2 cups
Food grade diatomaceous earth - 4 cups

Chunky perlite to get my desired consistency. Can, mix and inoculate.


----------



## Sincerely420 (Apr 27, 2013)

My name is Sincerely420 and I approve of this mix haha! The amount of amendments you added in total is right on time with that I would have suggested had you needed my help lol!

Looks on point tho boss.....Couple question tho...
*What's organic 8?*
*You don't need epsom salts.*..Look at the label on the tomato tone. *The Kelp Meal, Crab Meal, and lime should cover that what you think?*
And maybe a little more lime?! 
And DON'T forget to inoculate with mycos homie! It makes a BIG difference!

I got 4 batch mixing over here in 15 gal totes! I'm ready to go *IN* with the next op boss!


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## Shwagbag (Apr 27, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> My name is Sincerely420 and I approve of this mix haha! The amount of amendments you added in total is right on time with that I would have suggested had you needed my help lol!
> 
> Looks on point tho boss.....Couple question tho...
> *What's organic 8?*
> ...


Sup guy!? Yeah the Tomato Tone is 5% calcium and 1% mag. Organic 8 is the 4-10-7 Dr. Earth with 7% calcium as well. Crab meal is somewhere around 20% calcium. Everything is pretty low on mag to be honest. If anything at this point I would do less or no lime and just the epsom salts for the magnesium. I don't like how lime effects PH. 

Thoughts on that?


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 27, 2013)

*12.5 cubic feet of base soil
2 bags RO 707 - 6 cubic feet
2 bags FFOF - 3 cubic feet <-Only non-coir based
1 bag Happy Frog - 2.0 cubic feet
I bag RO Potting Soil - 1.5 cubic feet

<-I'd say that you do need to add lime since your base is a majority coir.
The pH of coir isn't as stable as the pH of a humus based soil.
I don't know that from personal experience, just from what I've learned.
And I feel like if you're gonna amend the soil as you are, you should def. lime to be safe rather than sorry!

And all the %'s that you see, they're all much lower on the bag in % than they'll end up being in the soil.




Castings & composted manure
75-85 # of castings
4-5 cubic feet of composted manure

Additives
Tomato tone - 10 cups
Organic 8 - 10 cups
*N guano - 5 cups*
P guano - 5 cups
Powdered Lime - 3 cups
Epsom Salts - 2 cups
Kelp Meal - 7 cups
*Powdered Humic Acid - 2 cups*
Azomite - 2 cups
*Crab Meal - 2 cups*
Glacial Rock Dust - 2 cups
Food grade diatomaceous earth - 4 cups

Chunky perlite to get my desired consistency. Can, mix and inoculate. *

*Everything in red that's bolded, I'd use for sure. The red non bold wouln't hurt, and the black I don't see necessary.
The two two amendents(Tomato Tone and Organic  work across the board as all around ferts, so they've already go crab meal in them.
The N in the soil can come from your EWC content alone, with the help from the two all purpose ferts, so I feel like that Hi-N Bat Guano would be more throwing it in there jut because. 
Aslo feel that way about the powder humic acid. Don't think you need it as nutrient levels in the soil will balloon in numbers with time anyways!

But I just feel like less is better as is involvs a bit more control over everything...

And If I got by fine using half the stuff on the list I feel like you could too.
Using teas might throw things off if you're soil is too nutrient rich, as every time you water, your plant will be nourished.

So I feel like simple and less is better when you can stretch them across the board and cover all the nutes including micros ya know?!

What do you think boss?
What's you logic in adding so much?

And what are the differences between this mix and your last one?


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## Shwagbag (Apr 27, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> *12.5 cubic feet of base soil
> 2 bags RO 707 - 6 cubic feet
> 2 bags FFOF - 3 cubic feet <-Only non-coir based
> 1 bag Happy Frog - 2.0 cubic feet
> ...


Good afternoon! Its a gorgeous sunny and warm Michigan day, finally!

The mix is done and here is what I decided on. 

*12.5 cubic feet of base soil*
2 bags RO 707 - 6 cubic feet
2 bags FFOF - 3 cubic feet
1 bag Happy Frog - 2.0 cubic feet
I bag RO Potting Soil - 1.5 cubic feet

*Castings & composted manure*
75-85 # of castings
2 cubic feet of composted manure

*Additives*
Tomato tone - 12 cups
Organic 8 - 12 cups
N guano - 5 cups
P guano - 5 cups
Powdered Lime -* 0 cups*
Epsom Salts - 2 cups
Kelp Meal - 7 cups
Powdered Humic Acid - 2 cups
Azomite - 2.5 cups 
Crab Meal - 1 cups
Glacial Rock Dust - 2 cups
Powdered Rock Phostphate - 1 cup
Food grade diatomaceous earth -* 0 cups*
About 2-2.5 cubic feet of perlite in two sizes

Then I watered each 32 gallon container with 1 gallon of mycos and inoculants with 2 tsp of powdered molasses. BTW that stuff is great! The water smelled of molasses even with the stinky shits in there. 

I don't know how much more diverse I could get until next time lol. 

Compared to my past mixes - Here is sub's mix

8 large bags of a high-quality organic potting soil with coco fiber and mycorrhizae (i.e., your base soil)
25 to 50 lbs of organic worm castings
5 lbs steamed bone meal
5 lbs Bloom bat guano
5 lbs blood meal
3 lbs rock phosphate
¾ cup Epson salts
½ cup sweet lime (dolomite)
½ cup azomite (trace elements)
2 tbsp powdered humic acid

The new mix is much more diverse with the meals, gypsum, greensand etc in the TT and Dr. Earth.... But I don't think its all that much more rich, nor is it more dense given the peat base, even with extra castings and manure. I don't usually add any N guano but I also am not using blood meal for the first time. It probably wasn't necessary but I did it anyways. 

My logic in adding so much is to stick with the super soil concept. Fungal teas with carbs every 2 weeks or so. Large trained plants that require space to spread their roots and will never get root bound. I'll run it indoors for my ganji and use it in the garden when I'm done with it as I expect there will be plenty of stuff left for veggies and what not.

On the base soil.... Roots 707 is peat/coco/hummus in that order, which is the main reason I chose it. 
FFOF is Hummus/Peat. 
Happy frog is mostly hummus.
Roots Regular Potting soil is the only coir dominant bag. 

There is no crab meal in either the Tomato Tone or the Dr. Earth 745 Organic 8. Definitely in the FFOF though. I just added one cup of crab meal for if nothing less a nice calcium boost (about 20%). I figured between the TT (5% Ca), Dr. Earth (7% Ca), crab meal (20%) and whatever else that calcium should be covered. Without the lime I chose to use the 2 cups of epsom salt for mag. 

If its light anywhere it seems to be cal or mag. And with a top dressing of TT in flower I hope it will do well! Other than that my concern is PH, and I also hope that with a peat dominant mixed with hummus will keep the mix in a more acidic range which seems to suit me. I've never made a mix with anything other that regular roots.

When it comes down to it, the base mix is ALOT of soil. I figure this will flower about 25 plants in 8 gallon containers (filled halfway) and I wouldn't hesitate amending each flowering plant with the amount of additives broken down. It should be aggressive but I also think it should work well. I don't doubt that some strains will need the mix cut with pro-mix, and I have no problem with that. The SLH will definitely be on of those strains!

Big thanks to S420 and all other organic nerds who made suggestions, its help me find a mix that I'm excited about and can't wait to use!

Did you post your mix that's cooking S420? I need to go back through and look. If not, please share what's cookin!


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 27, 2013)

*12.5 cubic feet of base soil
2 bags RO 707 - 6 cubic feet
2 bags FFOF - 3 cubic feet
1 bag Happy Frog - 2.0 cubic feet
I bag RO Potting Soil - 1.5 cubic feet

Castings & composted manure
75-85 # of castings
2 cubic feet of composted manure

Additives
Tomato tone - 12 cups
Organic 8 - 12 cups
N guano - 5 cups 
P guano - 5 cups
Powdered Lime - 0 cups - THE ONLY THING IDK about here...
Epsom Salts - 2 cups
Kelp Meal - 7 cups
Powdered Humic Acid - 2 cups
Azomite - 2.5 cups 
Crab Meal - 1 cups
Glacial Rock Dust - 2 cups - can add A LOT more of this! This is you fungi anchoring goods!
Powdered Rock Phostphate - 1 cup
Food grade diatomaceous earth - 0 cups
About 2-2.5 cubic feet of perlite in two sizes

Then I watered each 32 gallon container with 1 gallon of mycos and inoculants with 2 tsp of powdered molasses. BTW that stuff is great! The water smelled of molasses even with the stinky shits in there. 

I don't know how much more diverse I could get until next time lol. 

Compared to my past mixes - Here is sub's mix

8 large bags of a high-quality organic potting soil with coco fiber and mycorrhizae (i.e., your base soil)
25 to 50 lbs of organic worm castings
5 lbs steamed bone meal
5 lbs Bloom bat guano
5 lbs blood meal
3 lbs rock phosphate
¾ cup Epson salts
½ cup sweet lime (dolomite)
½ cup azomite (trace elements)
2 tbsp powdered humic acid*

______________________________
For some reason I thought that the Roots Organic and Happy Frog were both coir based?! OopS!

But I think that you're gonna be good bro. 
I HOPE that you don't end up pissed that you didn't lime the mix!
You gotta keep in mind the the N-P-K numbers that we see on the bags of organic ferts, aren't nearly the percentages that they'll amount to be bro. Looking at those percentages, at any point any time you'll be able to multiply some of those by 2 or 3.

And I like the concept of keeping it heavy and going with teas a little more sparingly boss! I'm sure you're about to succeed what success is haha!

But I'm about hit amazon up for some good bro. Anything I need to get my hands on? And I'm about to post the mix!


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 27, 2013)

*Growing Medium

*

*My 100% **Organic** &#8220;**$uperb**&#8221; **$oil Mix
*

*Each 9 gallon batch of reclaimed, **recycled,** Fox Farms Ocean Forest Base soil I reconditioned w/ *



*3 Gallons(48 cups) Mushroom Compost* 
*2 Gallons(32 cups) Ancient Forest Compost, * 
*2 Gallons(32 cups) Red Wiggler castings* 
*1 cup Hi-Cal Lime, * 
*1 cup Algamin Kelp Meal 1-0-2 * 
*½ cup Indonesian Hi-P Bat Guano .5-12-.2* 
*½ cup Espoma Tomato Tone 3-4-6* 
*½ cup Azomite* 
*1 cup Greensand 0-0-0.1* 
*11tsp Mycorrhiza spores
**
I'll add perlite in on a per pot basis,** which is why I didn't add anymore to the recycled batch.
**I didn't add anymore glacial rock dust because** I used it so heavily the first time around. I'll add more after I use the soil again!
I'll add in 2 more gallons of earth worm casting when I get them! They're not hot, so can be added at any time!
**
But yeah, this is the most current mix!**

I simply replenished the compost content of the soil I re-claimed, and I added half of everything that I added the first time around! Hopefully the next time I'll be able to use half what I did this time!

**But I got 4-15 Gallon totes full of soil, and I haven't bought any for months, and won't buy any for months..
That's the idea!* 
*The soil mix that I used for those 3 plants originally was:*
*-1.5 cubic feet (roughly 11 Gallons) Fox Farm Ocean Forest*

*-2 Gallons(30 cups) Perlite*
*-3 tablespoons Hi-Cal lime*

*-1 1/2 Gallon(24 cups) Wiggle Worm Earth Worm Castings*
*-3/4cups Espoma Tomato Tone 3-4-6*
*-1 1/2cups Algamin Kelp Meal 1-0-2*
*-3/4cups Espoma Greensand 0-0-0.1*
*-7.5 cups Glacial Rock Dust

^^^This recipe was def. a successful recipe, but I've learned more, grown more, and adapted things just a bit so that I can get more outta the lasses!

This last grow produced THICK colas and everything stayed green until the very end and faded RIGHT ON TIME, so I'm pretty excited about this new mix with the mushroom compost, ancient forest, and higher quality worm castings! I feel like the addition of those three things should make a BIG difference!



*


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## Shwagbag (Apr 27, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> *Growing Medium
> 
> *
> 
> ...


I didn't realize that you had the TT in your last mix!? i thought it was to be added to the current mix. That's sweet dude, you have to be happy with it, I know I would be. 


Faawwwk I lost my post... I'm not sure on the lime either man lol. Lots of added calcium to that mix via additives though. I imagine the epsom will provide plenty of mag. 

You are correct about roots soil. The original is coir based, the 707 is a newer soil from them and its peat based along with coir. A lighter mix because of the peat with less perlite needed. Thanks for the heads up on the rock dust, I will remember that for later! 

I wanted to avoid lime unless its absolutely necessary to raise the PH, so we'll see how the runoff looks before I use this. I'm curious to see the PH levels after pouring some water through it. 

From amazon hmmmmmm. IDK lol, I used most of what I have in my mix with enough for another batch or two. I'm a big fan of ebay too, kelp4less and a cpl other vendors on there have some nice goods. Grab yourself a worm factory 360! I haven't pulled the trigger just yet.


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 28, 2013)

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/naturalsoilprep


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 28, 2013)

http://www.maximumyield.com/inside-my-com/features-articles/item/403-recipes-for-success-building-your-own-organic-potting-soil


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## SOMEBEECH (Apr 29, 2013)

Both parties must benefit for a relationship to be symbiotic. We know that beneficial microbes colonize on the root zone, thus preventing infections from pathogenic fungus, and produce enzymes that speed nutrient absorption. But how do the microorganisms benefit from the relationship? The answer is sugars&#8212;more specifically, carbohydrates that are translocated from the plant (usually from the leaves) to the roots for the microbes to feed on. The microorganisms use the carbohydrates for energy, which allows them to function and reproduce. This is why carbohydrate supplements are so popular in the indoor gardening industry. By directly supplementing carbohydrates to the root zone, a grower can accelerate the reproductive rate of beneficial microorganisms while allowing the plant to retain a good portion of the carbohydrates normally secreted through its roots. The carbohydrates that remain in the plant can be used for other purposes like creating terpenes and terpenoids, which are imperative for promoting flavor, smell and essential oils. However, growers that supplement carbohydrates should always be on the look out for any sign of a pathogenic microorganism infection, as these microorganisms feed on carbohydrates as well. Supplementing carbohydrates to pathogens will accelerate their reproduction and can be devastating, so growers should immediately stop supplementing carbohydrates at the first sign of a potential pathogenic infection.
Thanks for the link,Alot of good info in the Below the surface,Article.
Damn S420 you be doing werk!
Beech


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 29, 2013)

http://www.maximumyield.com/inside-my-com/features-articles/item/760-undergoing-an-organic-transformation


----------



## SOMEBEECH (Apr 29, 2013)

I can see tht with your method the terpenes n terpoids should be off the chart!
Wahts the signs of pathogenic infection?
Beech


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 29, 2013)

Hmmm...gotta get back to you on that one....But hell yeah bro, my buds are VERY VERY VERY pungent this go around! I'ts crazy haha!
The homie Lead says his whole rooms wreaks lol! He's drying and cure his own so we can compare!

But yeah....with a healthy soil and healthy plants, we won't be worrying about pathogens. Just googled "pathogenic plant infection + cannabis" and went to images, and what I see looks like a number of different things boss.

But here's one for ya http://www.weedguru.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=381966


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## SOMEBEECH (Apr 29, 2013)

First thing I thought was tht you new what really good smoke smelled like, and to here what you keep saying about the smell.
Made me think of your method being the reason.I knew you were not just saying tht cause you grew it......... your not tht guy.
So your on to something imo!
Beech


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 29, 2013)

Cheers boss!
It's about to be *GO TIME* really soon!


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 29, 2013)

*Growing Medium*
*My 100% **Organic** &#8220;**$uperb**&#8221; **$oil Mix*
*Each 10-12 gallon batch of reclaimed, **recycled,** Fox Farms Ocean Forest Base soil I reconditioned w/ *


*3 Gallons(48 cups) Mushroom Compost* 
*2 Gallons(32 cups) Ancient Forest Compost, * 
*2 1/2 Gallons(40 cups) Red Wiggler castings* + 8cups* 
*10 cups Perlite** 
*1 cup Hi-Cal Lime, * 
*1 cup Algamin Kelp Meal 1-0-2 * 
*½ cup Indonesian Hi-P Bat Guano .5-12-.2* 
*½ cup Espoma Tomato Tone 3-4-6* 
*½ cup Azomite* 
*1 cup Greensand 0-0-0.1* 
*3 cup Glacial Rock Dust** 
*11tsp Mycorrhizae spores.* 
*The soil mix that I used for those 3 plants originally was:*
*-1.5 cubic feet (roughy 11 Gallons) Fox Farm Ocean Forest*
*-2 Gallons(30 cups) Perlite*
*-3 tablespoons Hi-Cal lime*
*-1 1/2 Gallon(24 cups) Wiggle Worm Earth Worm Castings*
*-3/4cups Espoma Tomato Tone 3-4-6*
*-1 1/2cups Algamin Kelp Meal 1-0-2*
*-3/4cups Espoma Greensand 0-0-0.1*
*-7.5 cups Glacial Rock Dust*
_____________________________________
**Green denotes new additions!*


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## SOMEBEECH (Apr 29, 2013)

*

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Sincerely420 again.
Beech





*


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## Sincerely420 (May 2, 2013)

*Compost Tea Recipes*

*If you are using a municipal source of water, aerate the water for 15-20 min prior to adding ingredients. This will evaporate the chlorine from your water. 
*_*didn't know chlorine evaporated so quickly.._*
*

*To prevent foaming, add 1 tsp. vegetable oil.*
*didn't know this either!
** = optional ingredients*

*Bacterial Tea*


4 cups Earthworm Castings or other forms of bacterially dominated compost 
2 tbsp. molasses or other complex liquid sugars (honey, agave, natural syrups,or fruit juices) 
.5 oz Soluble Kelp 
*1-2 oz. (2-4 tbsp.) liquid plant extract (made from comfrey, nettle, or dandelion) 
*.5 oz Fish Hydrolysate 
4-5 gal Chlorine-free Water  
*Brew for 24 - 48 hours and apply to root or leaf zone; tea must be kept aerated until it is applied.*

*Balanced Tea (Bacteria to Fungi)*


2 cups Earthworm Castings or other forms of bacterially dominated compost 
2 cups Humus or other form of fungi dominated compost 
.5 oz Soluble Kelp 
.5 oz Fish Hydrolysate 
1 oz Humic Acids 
*1-2 oz. (2-4 tbl.) liquid plant extract (made from comfrey, nettle, or dandelion)  
4-5 gal Chlorine-free Water 
*Brew for 12 - 48 hours and apply within 72; tea must be kept aerated until it is applied. *

*Fungi Tea*


4 cups Humus or mature fungi dominated compost 
1 oz Humic Acids 
.5 oz Fish Hydrolysate 
.5 oz Soluble Kelp 
*1 tbsp. Rock Phosphate Powder 
*2-3 tbsp. flour (oat or wheat) 
 4-5 gal Chlorine-free Water 
*Brew for 24-48 hours and apply within 72; tea must be aerated up until it is applied. To increase the fungal biomass, treat compost with .5 oz kelp, .25 oz Fish Hydrolysate 24-48 hours before brewing.*

*Other Tea Blends*
*Guano Tea*



4 - 8 tbl. Bat or Seabird Guano of choice 
*2 tbsp. complex liquid sugars (molasses, honey, agave, natural syrups,or fruit juices) 
*.5 oz Soluble Kelp 
4-5 gal Chlorine-free Water 
*Brew for 12 - 48 hours; tea must be kept aerated until it is applied. Apply to root zone.*

*Alfalfa Tea*


1 cup ground Alfalfa meal 
* 1 - 4 cups Earthworm Castings or mature compost 
*2 tbsp. molasses or other complex liquid sugars 
*.5 oz Soluble Kelp 
4-5 gal Chlorine-free Water 
*Brew for 12 - 24 hours; tea must be kept aerated until it is applied. Apply to root zone. Alfalfa tea is good source of vitamins A and B; Folic acids, Amino acids, crude proteins, high Nitrogen(N), phosphorus(P), potassium(K), calcium(Ca), magnesium(Mg), sulphur(S), Manganese(Mn), iron(Fe), copper(Cu), boron(B), and zinc(Zn).*

*Liquid Plant Extract*


5 Gallon Garden Tea Brewer  
Young Comfrey, Nettle, and/or Dandelion leaves 
4-5galChlorine-free Water 
*Instructions: Fill a 5 gallon bucket (loosely) with chopped/ crushed young Comfrey, Nettle, or Dandelion leaves. Faster fermentation will occur if the stems and leaves are bruised. Fill the rest of the bucket with chlorine free water, cover, place in a shaded area, and brew for 2 weeks in warm weather (70 - 90% water temp) or 4-5 weeks in cool weather (50 - 70%). This mix can sit without active aeration and ferment with time. Warning! If making plant extracted teas without active aeration, teas will smell like an open sewer throughout fermentation and when finished. The end product will be a dark concentrated liquid fertilizer. After the fermentation period strain liquid and squeeze the remnants to extract as much juice as possible. Feed the solid wastes to your compost pile. Filter and store tea in a cool dark place or in refrigeration. All of the above listed plant extracts are an excellent stand-alone fertilizer for many annuals and perennials.*



 *Comfrey *tea is a good source of vitamin A and C; calcium(Ca), phosphorus(P), potassium(K), along with many trace minerals. 
 *Nettle *tea is good source of vitamins A, C, and K; calcium(Ca), magnesium(Mg), phosphorus(P), potassium(K), boron(B), bromine(Br), copper(Cu), iron(Fe), selenium(Se), silicon(Si), and zinc(Zn). 
*Dandelion *tea is a good source of vitamins A and C, calcium(Ca), and potassium(K). 
*Application: Filtered liquid extracts should be diluted to a tea color, at a rate of 1 tsp. tea extract to 1 gallon chlorine-free water. Plant extracts can be diluted at ratios up to 15:1 depending on maturity and phase of plant growth (1 part filtered extract to 15 parts water). *


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## Sincerely420 (May 4, 2013)

*Oxygen in your root zone is essential for healthy plants.*

"Oxygen down below makes the plant grow up above".

*Oxygen in the medium is imperative for the roots of a medical marijuana plant and necessary for optimizing performance in a soil garden. *Without oxygen, root masses fail to develop properly and generally develop pathogenic diseases like pythium.
Many premixed potting soils take oxygen into consideration and are amended with substances designed to maximize it. Some growers like to add additional amendments to their potting soils to help increase oxygen replenishment to the root mass and to allow for more frequent feedings, which ultimately gives the grower more control. Some soil gardeners make a soil from scratch; obtaining and combining individual ingredients to make the perfect mix. Either the soil gardener using a pre-made potting mix or the do-it-from-scratch grower will benefit from adding one or more of the following soil amendments designed to better the soil&#8217;s aeration.
*
Perlite*
*
Perlite* is made from expanded volcanic glass and is probably the most popular additive for soil aeration. 
Perlite is extremely light in weight, which makes it easy to transport and mix. Perlite practically repels water and holds oxygen.
This substance goes a long way in aerating soil. Many professional growers will create a mixture of 75% typical potting soil and 25% perlite. This mix is great for the medical marijuana grower that wants a fast draining soil that will require multiple feedings per week. Disadvantages of perlite are the dust when mixing (a dust mask or respirator should always be worn when mixing perlite) and perlite tends to float to the surface after multiple waterings.
*
Pumice*

*Pumice* is a volcanic rock which is extremely porous. Pumice is much heavier than perlite and due to this downfall is hardly used in pre-made soil mixes. Although it is a little harder to work with, I tend to favor pumice over perlite.
There is a small amount of nutritional benefit with pumice and, because pumice doesn&#8217;t float, it stays buried in the soil mix even after extensive waterings. A disadvantage of pumice is its weight in terms of determining when to water your plants; growers unfamiliar with pumice may misidentify its weight for moisture in the container.
*
Vermiculite*

*Vermiculite* is a natural mineral that, for horticultural purposes, is pre-expanded via heat. Vermiculite is a great additive for aeration, but also water retention. Vermiculite is the most popular additive in the creation of homemade soilless mixes and cloning mediums. As with perlite, it is extremely important to use a dust mask or respirator when mixing vermiculite. Small particles in a grower&#8217;s lungs could cause serious health issues down the road.
*
Coco-Coir*

*Coco-Coir* is the inside husk of coconuts and a by-product of the coconut industry. It has an amazing ability to hold moisture but hold a lot of oxygen as well. Recently, Coco-Coir has become an increasing popular option for aeration in a soil mixture. A soil amended with Coco-Coir will feel spongy and loose, the perfect conditions for the vigorous root growth of medical marijuana plants. The main disadvantage of Coco-Coir is quality control. All sources of Coco-Coir are different; some require heavy rinsing to remove excess salts, while others are ready to go right out of the bag. Generally speaking, you get what you pay for with Coco-Coir; cheaper usually means more salts and more rinsing required.

*Additional oxygen for the roots of your medical marijuana means faster growth and bigger yields. An amendment designed for aeration could also give the grower the extra control they desire. Whatever your reason, just remember: sufficient oxygen down below makes the plant grow up above.*

*I'm still just using perlite for aeration!
http://bigbudsmag.com/grow/how/article/best-ways-aerate-your-medical-marijuana-soil-march-2012


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## Sincerely420 (May 4, 2013)

*A Marijuana Growers Guide To Soil Sweeteners*

* I bolded and/or made red the things I found really imporant! So feel free to skim!

Like manure, this subject is another one of those &#8220;magical&#8221; organic goodies that contributes to plant health in more than one way. It&#8217;s also like manure in that it&#8217;s a waste or by-product, but when we think about it, this topic really is the &#8220;other end of the stick&#8221;!

Now it&#8217;s time to move on to a much much sweeter topic . . .
Molasses . . .

Like the boy&#8217;s on South Park are sometimes known for saying - &#8220;That&#8217;s what I call a sticky situation!&#8221; . . .

Sweet Organic Goodness - Magical Molasses

There are a number of different nutrient and fertilizer companies selling a variety of additives billed as carbohydrate booster products for plants. Usually retailing for tens of dollars per gallon if not tens of dollars per liter, these products usually claim to work as a carbohydrate source for plants. 
A variety of benefits are supposed to be unlocked by the use of these products, including the relief of plant stresses and increases in the rate of nutrient uptake. On the surface it sounds real good, and while these kinds of products almost always base their claims in enough science to sound good, reality doesn&#8217;t always live up to the hype.

The 3LB are pretty well known for our distrust of nutrient companies like Advanced Nutrients who produce large lines of products (usually with large accompanying price tags) claiming to be a series of &#8220;magic bullets&#8221; - unlocking the keys to growing success for new and experienced growers alike. 
One member of the three little birds grower&#8217;s and breeder&#8217;s collective decided to sample one of these products a while back, intending to give the product a fair trial and then report on the results to the community at Cannabis World.

Imagine, if you will, Tweetie bird flying off to the local hydroponics store, purchasing a bottle of the wonder product -
&#8220;Super Plant Carb!&#8221; (not it&#8217;s real name) - and then dragging it back to the bird&#8217;s nest. With a sense of expectation our lil&#8217; bird opens the lid, hoping to take a peek and a whiff of this new (and expensive) goodie for our wonderful plants. She is greeted with a familiar sweet smell that it takes a moment to place. Then the realization hits her. . .

Molasses! The &#8220;Super Plant Carb!&#8221; smells just like Blackstrap Molasses. At the thought that she&#8217;s just paid something like $15 for a liter of molasses, our Tweetie bird scowls. Surely she tells herself there must be more to this product than just molasses. So she dips a wing into the sweet juice ever so slightly, and brings it up to have a taste.

Much the same way a sneaky Sylvester cat is exposed by a little yellow bird saying - &#8220;I thought I saw a puddy tat . . . I did I did see a puddy tat ... and he&#8217;s standing right there!&#8221; - our Tweetie bird had discovered the essence of this product. It was indeed nothing more than Blackstrap Molasses, a quick taste had conformed for our Tweetie bird that she had wasted her time and effort lugging home a very expensive bottle of plant food additive. Molasses is something we already use for gardening at the Bird&#8217;s Nest. In fact sweeteners like molasses have long been a part of the arsenal of common products used by organic gardeners to bring greater health to their soils and plants.

So please listen to the little yellow bird when she chirps, because our Tweetie bird knows her stuff. 
The fertilizer companies are like the bumbling Sylvester in many ways, but rather than picturing themselves stuffed with a little bird, they see themselves growing fat with huge profits from the wallets of unsuspecting consumers.
Let us assure you it&#8217;s not the vision of yellow feathers floating in front of their stuffed mouths that led these executives in their attempt
to &#8220;pounce&#8221; on the plant growing public.

And the repackaging of molasses as plant food or plant additive is not just limited to the companies selling their products in hydroponic stores. Folks shopping at places like Wal-Mart are just as likely to be taken in by this tactic. 
In this particular case the offending party is Schultz® Garden Safe All Purpose Liquid Plant Food 3-1-5. This is a relatively inexpensive product that seems appealing to a variety of organic gardeners. Here&#8217;s Shultz own description of their product.
&#8220;Garden Safe Liquid Plant Foods are made from plants in a patented technology that provides plants with essential nutrients for beautiful flowers and foliage and no offensive smell. Plus they improve soils by enhancing natural microbial activity. Great for all vegetables, herbs, flowers, trees, shrubs and houseplants including roses, tomatoes, fruits, and lawns. Derived from completely natural ingredients, Garden Safe All Purpose Liquid Plant Food feeds plants and invigorates soil microbial activity. 
Made from sugar beet roots! No offensive manure or fish odors.&#8221;

That sure sounds good, and the three little birds will even go as far as to say we agree 100% with all the claims made in that little blurb of ad copy.
But here&#8217;s the problem, Shultz isn&#8217;t exactly telling the public that the bottle of &#8220;fertilizer&#8221; they are buying is nothing more than a waste product derived from the production of sugar. In fact, Schultz® Garden Safe 3-1-5 Liquid Plant Food is really and truly nothing more than a form molasses derived from sugar beet processing that is usually used as an animal feed sweetener. 
If you don&#8217;t believe a band of birds, go ahead and look for yourself at the fine print on a Garden Safe bottle where it says - &#8220;Contains 3.0% Water Soluble Nitrogen, 1.0% Available Phosphate, 5.0% Soluble Potash - derived from molasses.&#8221;

The only problem we see, is that animal feed additives shouldn&#8217;t be retailing for $7.95 a quart, and that&#8217;s the price Shultz is charging for it&#8217;s Garden Safe product. 
While we don&#8217;t find that quite as offensive as Advanced Nutrients selling their &#8220;CarboLoad&#8221; product for $14.00 a liter, we still know that
it&#8217;s terribly overpriced for sugar processing wastes. So, just as our band of birds gave the scoop on poop in our Guano Guide, we&#8217;re now about to give folks the sweet truth about molasses.

*Molasses is a syrupy, thick juice created by the processing of either sugar beets or the sugar cane plant.* Depending on the definition used, Sweet Sorghum also qualifies as a molasses, although technically it&#8217;s a thickened syrup more akin to Maple Syrup than to molasses. The grade and type of molasses depends on the maturity of the sugar cane or beet and the method of extraction.
The different molasses&#8217; have names like: first molasses, second molasses,* unsulphured molasses,* sulphured molasses, and *blackstrap molasses. *
For gardeners the sweet syrup can work as a carbohydrate source to feed and stimulate microorganisms.
*And, because molasses (average NPK 1-0-5) contains potash, sulfur, and many trace minerals, it can serve as a nutritious soil amendment. 
Molasses is also an excellent chelating agent.*

Several grades and types of molasses are produced by sugar cane processing. 
First the plants are harvested and stripped of their leaves, and then the sugar cane is usually crushed or mashed to extract it&#8217;s sugary juice. Sugar manufacturing begins by boiling cane juice until it reaches the proper consistency, it is then processed to extract sugar. This first boiling and processing produces what is called first molasses, this has the highest sugar content of the molasses because relatively little sugar has been extracted from the juice. 
Green (unripe) sugar cane that has been treated with sulphur fumes during sugar extraction produces sulphured molasses. The juice of sun-ripened cane which has been clarified and concentrated produces unsulphured molasses. Another boiling and sugar extraction produces second molasses which has a slight bitter tinge to its taste.

Further rounds of processing and boiling yield dark colored *blackstrap molasses, which is the most nutritionally valuable of the various types of molasses.*
It is commonly used as a sweetner in the manufacture of cattle and other animal feeds, and is even sold as a human health supplement. Any kind of molasses will work to provide benefit for soil and growing plants, but *blackstrap molasses is the best choice because it contains the greatest concentration of sulfur, iron and micronutrients from the original cane material. 
Dry molasses is something different still. It&#8217;s not exactly just dried molasses either, it&#8217;s molasses sprayed on grain residue which acts as
a &#8220;carrier&#8221;.*

Molasses production is a bit different when it comes to the sugar beet. You might say &#8220;bird&#8217;s know beets&#8221; because one of our flock grew up near Canada&#8217;s &#8220;sugar beet capitol&#8221; in Alberta. Their family worked side by side with migrant workers tending the beet fields. The work consisted of weeding and thinning by hand, culling the thinner and weaker plants to leave behind the best beets. After the growing season and several hard frosts - which increase the sugar content - the beets are harvested by machines, piled on trucks and delivered to their destination.

At harvest time, a huge pile of beets will begin to build up outside of the sugar factory that will eventually dwarf the factory itself in size. Gradually throughout the winter the pile will diminish as the whole beets are ground into a mash and then cooked. The cooking serves to reduce and clarify the beet mash, releasing huge columns of stinky (but harmless) beet steam into the air. Sometimes, if the air is cold enough, the steam will fall to the ground around the factory as snow!

As we&#8217;ve already learned, in the of sugar cane the consecutive rounds of sugar manufacturing produce first molasses and second molasses. With the humble sugar beet, the intermediate syrups get names like high green and low green, it&#8217;s only the syrup left after the final stage of sugar extraction that is called molasses. After final processing, the leftover sugar beet mash is dried then combined with the thick black colored molasses to serve as fodder for cattle. Sugar beet molasses is also used to sweeten feed for horses, sheep, chickens, etc.

Sugar beet molasses is only considered useful as an animal feed additive because it has fairly high concentrations of many salts including calcium, potassium, oxalate, and chloride. Despite the fact that it&#8217;s not suitable for human consumption and some consider it to be an industrial waste or industrial by-product, molasses produced from sugar beets makes a wonderful plant fertilizer. While humans may reject beet molasses due to the various &#8220;extras&#8221; the sugar beet brings to the table, to our plant&#8217;s it&#8217;s a different story. Sugar beet molasses is usually fairly chemical free as well, at least in our experience. Although farmers generally fertilize their fields in the spring using the various arrays of available fertilizers, weed chemicals (herbicides) are not used for this crop due to the beet plant&#8217;s relatively delicate nature.

There is at least one other type of &#8220;molasses&#8221; we are aware of, and that would be sorghum molasses. It&#8217;s made from a plant known as sweet sorghum or sorghum cane in treatments somewhat similar to sugar beets and/or sugar cane processing. If our understanding is correct, sorghum molasses is more correctly called a thickened syrup rather than a by-product of sugar production. So in our eyes sorghum molasses is probably more like Maple Syrup than a true molasses.

In the distant past sorghum syrup was a common locally produced sweetener in many areas, but today it is fairly rare speciality product that could get fairly pricey compared to Molasses. Because sorghum molasses is the final product of sweet sorghum processing, and blackstrap and sugar beet molasses are simply waste by-products of sugar manufacturing, it&#8217;s pretty easy to understand the difference in expense between the products. The word from the birds is - there isn&#8217;t any apparent advantage to justify the extra expense of using sorghum molasses as a substitute for blackstrap or sugar beet molasses in the garden. So if you find sorghum molasses, instead of using it in your garden, you&#8217;ll probably want to use it as an alternate sweetener on some biscuits.

That&#8217;s a quick bird&#8217;s eye look at the differences between the various types and grades of molasses and how they are produced. Now it&#8217;s time to get a peek at the why&#8217;s and how&#8217;s of using molasses in gardening.

*Why Molasses?*

*The reason nutrient manufacturer&#8217;s have &#8220;discovered&#8221; molasses is the simple fact that it&#8217;s a great source of carbohydrates to stimulate the growth of beneficial microorganisms. &#8220;Carbohydrate&#8221; is really just a fancy word for sugar, and molasses is the best sugar for horticultural use. Folks who have read some of our prior essays know that we are big fans of promoting and nourishing soil life, and that we attribute a good portion of our growing success to the attention we pay to building a thriving &#8220;micro-herd&#8221; to work in concert with plant roots
to digest and assimilate nutrients. We really do buy into the old organic gardening adage - &#8220;Feed the soil not the plant.&#8221;*

*Molasses is a good, quick source of energy for the various forms of microbes and soil life in a compost pile or good living soil.* As we said earlier, *molasses is a carbon source that feeds the beneficial microbes that create greater natural soil fertility.* But, if giving a sugar boost was the only goal, there would be lot&#8217;s of alternatives. We could even go with the old Milly Blunt story of using Coke on plants as a child, after all Coke would be a great source of sugar to feed microbes and it also contains phosphoric acid to provide phosphorus for strengthening roots and encouraging blooming. In our eyes though, the primary thing that makes molasses the best sugar for agricultural use is it&#8217;s trace minerals.

*In addition to sugars, molasses contains significant amounts of potash, sulfur, and a variety of micronutrients. Because molasses is derived from plants, and because the manufacturing processes that create it remove mostly sugars, the majority of the mineral nutrients that were contained in the original sugar cane or sugar beet are still present in molasses.* *This is a critical factor because a balanced supply of mineral nutrients is essential for those &#8220;beneficial beasties&#8221; to survive and thrive. That&#8217;s one of the secrets we&#8217;ve discovered to really successful organic gardening, the micronutrients found in organic amendments like molasses, kelp, and alfalfa were all derived from other plant sources and are quickly and easily available to our soil and plants.
This is especially important for the soil &#8220;micro-herd&#8221; of critters who depend on tiny amounts of those trace minerals as catalysts to make the enzymes that create biochemical transformations. That last sentence was our fancy way of saying
- it&#8217;s actually the critters in &#8220;live soil&#8221; that break down organic fertilizers and &#8220;feed&#8221; it to our plants.*

*One final benefit molasses can provide to your garden is it&#8217;s ability to work as a chelating agent. That&#8217;s a scientific way of saying that molasses is one of those &#8220;magical&#8221; substances that can convert some chemical nutrients into a form that&#8217;s easily available for critters and plants. Chelated minerals can be absorbed directly and remain available and stable in the soil. Rather than spend a lot of time and effort explaining the relationships between chelates and micronutrients, we are going to quote one of our favorite
sources for explaining soil for scientific laymen.
&#8220;Micronutrients occur, in cells as well as in soil, as part of large, complex organic molecules in chelated form. The word chelate (pronounced &#8220;KEE-late&#8221 comes from the Greek word for &#8220;claw,&#8221; which indicates how a single nutrient ion is held in the center of the larger molecule. The finely balanced interactions between micronutrients are complex and not fully understood. We do know that balance is crucial; any micronutrient, when present in excessive amounts, will become a poison, and certain poisonous elements, such as chlorine are also essential micronutrients.*

*For this reason natural, organic sources of micronutrients are the best means of supplying them to the soil; they are present in balanced quantities and not liable to be over applied through error or ignorance. When used in naturally chelated form, excess micronutrients will be locked up and prevented from disrupting soil balance.&#8221;*
_
Excerpted from &#8220;The Soul of Soil&#8221;
by Grace Gershuny and Joe Smillie_

That&#8217;s not advertising hype either, no product being sold there. That&#8217;s just the words of a pair of authors who have spent their lives studying, building, and nurturing soils.

*Molasses&#8217; ability to act as a chelate explains it&#8217;s presence in organic stimulant products like Earth Juice Catalyst. Chelates are known for their ability to unlock the potential of fertilizers, and some smart biological farmers we know are using chelating agents (like Humic Acid) to allow them to make dramatic cuts in normal levels of fertilizer application.*

One way to observe this reaction at work would be to mix up a solution of one part molasses to nine parts water and then soak an object which is coated with iron rust (like a simple nail for instance) in that solution for two weeks. The chelating action of the molasses will remove the mineral elements of the rust and hold them in that &#8220;claw shaped&#8221; molecule that Grace and Joe just described.

As we&#8217;ve commented on elsewhere, it&#8217;s not always possible to find good information about the fertilizer benefits of some products that aren&#8217;t necessarily produced as plant food. But we&#8217;ve also found that by taking a careful look at nutritional information provided for products like molasses that can be consumed by humans, we can get a pretty decent look at the
nutrition we can expect a plant to get as well.

*There are many brand&#8217;s of molasses available, so please do not look at our use of a particular brand as an endorsement, our choice of Brer Rabbit molasses as an example is simply due to our familiarity with the product, one of our Grandmother&#8217;s preferred this brand.*
_
Brer Rabbit Blackstrap Molasses
Nutritional Information and Nutrition Facts:
Serving Size: 1Tbsp. (21g).
Servings per Container: About 24.
Amount Per Serving: Calories - 60;
Percentage Daily Values;
Fat - 0g, 0%;
Sodium - 65mg. 3%;
Potassium - 800 mg. 23%;
Total Carbohydrates - 13g, 4%;
Sugars - 12g,
Protein - 1g,
Calcium - 2%; Iron 10%;
Magnesium 15%;
Not a significant source of calories from fat, sat.
fat, cholesterol, fiber, Vitamin A, and Vitamin C._

*The How&#8217;s of Molasses*

Undoubtedly some folks are to the point where they are ready for our flock to &#8220;cut to the chase.&#8221; 
All the background about molasses making and the various kinds of molasses is good, and knowing how molasses works as a fertilizer is great too, but by now many of you may be thinking - isn&#8217;t it about time to learn how to actually use this wonder product?! 
So thissection of the &#8220;Molasses Manual&#8221; is for our birdie buds who are ready, waiting, and wanting to get going with bringing the sticky goodness of molasses into their garden.

*Molasses is a fairly versatile product, it can serve as a plant food as well as a an additive to improve a fertilizer mix or tea. Dry molasses can be used as an ingredient in a fertilizer mix, and liquid molasses can be used alone or as a component in both sprays and soil drenches. Your personal preferences and growing style will help to decide how to best use this natural sweetener for it&#8217;s greatest effect in your garden.*

*We will try and address the use of dry molasses first, although we will openly admit this is an area where we have little actual experience with gardening use. We&#8217;ve certainly mixed dry molasses into animal feed before, so we&#8217;re not totally unfamiliar with it&#8217;s use. Folks may remember from our earlier description of the various kinds of molasses that dry molasses is actually a ground grain waste &#8220;carrier&#8221; which has been coated with molasses. This gives dry molasses a semi-granular texture that can be mixed into a feed mix (for animals) or a soil mix (for our favorite herbs). 
Dry molasses has a consistency that was described by one bird as similar to mouse droppings or rat turds, (folks had to know we&#8217;d fit a manure reference in here somehow).
The best use we can envision for dry molasses in the herb garden is to include it in some sort of modified &#8220;super-soil&#8221; recipe, like Vic High originally popularized for the cannabis community.*
As we admitted, the use of dry molasses in soil mixes isn&#8217;t something we have personal experience with, at least not yet. We are planning some experiments to see how a bit of dry molasses will work in a soil mix. *We believe that moderate use should help stimulate micro-organisms and also help in chelating micronutrients and holding them available for our herbs. The plan is to begin testing with one cup of dried molasses added per 10 gallons of soil mix and then let our observations guide the efforts from there.*

*Another option for molasses use in the garden is it&#8217;s use alone as a fertilizer. The Schultz Garden Safe Liquid Plant Food is a perfect example of the direct application of molasses as a plant food.* Garden Safe products are available from a variety of sources, including Wal-Mart. Although we consider them overpriced for a sugar beet by-product, Garden Safe products are fairly cost effective, especially compared to fertilizers obtained from a hydroponics or garden store, and they can serve as a good introduction to molasses for the urban herb gardener.

Here are the basic instructions a gardener would find on the side of a bottle of this sugar beet by-product -

_Mix Garden Safe Liquid All Purpose Plant Food in water. 
Water plants thoroughly with solution once every 7-14 days in spring and summer, every 14-30 days in fall and winter. 
Indoors, use 1/2 teaspoon per quart (1 teaspoon per gallon); outdoors, 1 teaspoon per quart(4 teaspoons per gallon). 32 fluid ounces (946ml). 
Contains 3.0% Water Soluble Nitrogen, 1.0% Available Phosphate, 5.0% Soluble Potash derived from molasses._

In our own experience with Garden Safe Liquid fertilizers, we&#8217;ve used a pretty close equivalent to the outdoor rate on indoor herbs with some good success.

Our best application rate for Garden Safe 3-1-5 ended up being around 1 Tablespoon per gallon ( 1 Tablespoon = 3 teaspoons). Used alone it&#8217;s really not a favorite for continuos use, since we don&#8217;t see Garden Safe 3-1-5 as a balanced fertilizer.
It doesn&#8217;t have enough phosphorous to sustain good root growth and flower formation in the long term. It&#8217;s best use would probably be in an outdoor soil grow where there are potential pest issues. Animal by-products like blood meal and bone meal are notorious for attracting varmints, so Garden Safe sugar beet molasses fertilizers could provide an excellent &#8220;plant based&#8221; source of Nitrogen and Potassium for a soil that&#8217;s already been heavily amended with a good slow release source of phosphorous, our choice would be soft rock phosphate.

*Blackstrap molasses could also be used in a similar fashion, as a stand alone liquid fertilizer for the biological farmer who needs to avoid potential varmint problems caused by animal based products. But, we really believe there is a better overall use for molasses in the organic farmer&#8217;s arsenal of fertilizers. Our suggestion for the best available use, would be to make use of the various molasses products as a part making organic teas for watering and foliar feeding.
*
Since many of the folks reading this are familiar with our Guano Guide, it will come as no surprise to our audience that molasses is a product we find very useful as an ingredient in Guano and Manure teas. Most bat and seabird guanos are fairly close to being complete fertilizers, with the main exception being that they are usually short in Potassium. 
*Molasses is turns out is a great source of that necessary Potassium. As we learned earlier, molasses also acts as a chelating agent and will help to make micronutrients in the Guano more easily available for our favorite herbs.
*
*A good example of a guano tea recipe at the Bird&#8217;s Nest is really as simple as the following:*
1 Gallon of water
1 TBSP of guano (for a flowering mix we&#8217;d use Jamaican or Indonesian Bat Guano - for a more general use fertilizer we
would choose Peruvian Seabird Guano.)
1 tsp blackstrap or sugar beet molasses*

We mix the ingredients directly into the water and allow the tea mix to brew for 24 hours. It&#8217;s best to use an aquarium pump to aerate the tea, but an occasional shaking can suffice if necessary and still produce a quality tea. We will give you one hint from hard personal experience, make sure if you use the shake method that you hold the lid on securely, nobody appreciate having a crap milkshake spread over the room.*

*Some folks prefer to use a lady&#8217;s nylon or stocking to hold the guano and keep it from making things messy, but we figure the organic matter the manure can contribute to the soil is a good thing. Using this method we feel like we are getting the benefits of a manure tea and a guano top-dressing all together in the same application. 
If you prefer to use the stocking method, feel free to feed the&#8221;tea bag&#8221;leftovers to your worm or compost bin, even after a good brewing there&#8217;s lots of organic goodness left in that crap!*

*We also use molasses to sweeten and enrich Alfalfa meal teas. Our standard recipe for this use is*:
4 gallons of water
1 cup of fine ground alfalfa meal
1 TBSP blackstrap or sugar beet molasses

*After a 24 hour brew, this 100% plant-based fertilizer is ready for application. Alfalfa is a great organic plant food, with many benefits above and beyond just the N&#8211;P-K it can contribute to a soil mix or tea. We do plan to cover Alfalfa and it&#8217;s many uses in greater detail soon in yet another thread. We prefer to mix our alfalfa meal directly into the tea, but many gardeners use the stocking&#8221;tea bag&#8221;method with great effectiveness, both work well, it&#8217;s really just a matter of personal preference.*

*The alfalfa tea recipe we described can be used as a soil drench, and also as a foliar feed. And foliar feeding is the final use of molasses we&#8217;d like to detail. Foliar feeding, for the unfamiliar, is simply the art of using fine mist sprays as a way to get nutrients directly to the plant through the minute pores a plant&#8221;breathes&#8221;through. It is by far the quickest and most effective way to correct nutrient deficiencies, and can be an important part of any gardener&#8217;s toolbox.*

*Molasses is a great ingredient in foliar feeding recipes because of it&#8217;s ability to chelate nutrients and bring them to the &#8220;table&#8221; in a form that can be directly absorbed and used by the plant. This really improves the effectiveness of foliar feeds when using them as a plant tonic. In fact it improves them enough that we usually can dilute our teas or mix them more &#8220;lean&#8221; - with less fertilizer - than we might use without the added molasses.
*
*Of course it is possible to use molasses as a foliar feed alone, without any added guano or alfalfa. It&#8217;s primary use would be to treat plants who are deficient in Potassium, although molasses also provides significant boosts in other essential minerals such as Sulfur, Iron and Magnesium. Organic farming guides suggest application rates of between one pint and one quart per acre depending on the target plant. For growing a fast growing annual plant like cannabis, we&#8217;d suggest a recipe of 1 teaspoon molasses per gallon of water.
*
*In all honesty, we&#8217;d probably suggest a foliar feeding with kelp concentrate as a better solution for an apparent Potassium shortage. Kelp is one of our favorite foliar feeds because it is a complete source of micronutrients in addition to being a great source of Potassium. Kelp has a variety of other characteristics that we love, and we plan that it will be the topic of it&#8217;s own detailed thread at a future date. But, for growers that cannot find kelp, or who might have problems with the potential odors a kelp foliar feeding can create, molasses can provide an excellent alternative treatment for Potassium deficient plants at an affordable price.

That looks at most of the beneficial uses of Molasses for the modern organic or biological farmer. Just when you think that&#8217;s all there could be from our beaks on the topic of molasses, that molasses and it&#8217;s sweet sticky goodness surely have been covered in their entirety, the birds chirp in to say, there is one more specialized use for molasses in the garden. Magical molasses can also help in the control of Fire Ants, and perhaps some other garden pests.*

*Molasses For Organic Pest Control*

One final benefit of molasses is it&#8217;s ability to be used in the control of a couple of common pests encountered in gardening. The most commonly known use of molasses is it&#8217;s ability to help control Fire Ants, but we&#8217;ve also found an internet reference to the ability of molasses to control white cabbage moths in the UK, so molasses could be an effective pest deterrent in more ways that we are aware. As we said before, there are several references we&#8217;ve run across refering to the ability of molasses to control Fire Ants. Since we&#8217;re not intimately familiar with this particular use of molasses, and rather than simply re-write and re-word another&#8217;s work, we thought we&#8217;d defer to the experts. 
So for this section of the current version of the Molasses Manual, we will simply post a reference
article we found that covers topic in better detail than we currently can ourselves.

_Molasses Makes Fire Ants Move Out
By Pat Ploegsma, reprinted from Native Plant Society of Texas News
Summer 1999

Have you ever started planting in your raised beds and found fire ant highrises? Are you tired of being covered with welts after gardening? Put down that blowtorch and check out these excellent organic and non-toxic solutions. Malcolm Beck1, organic farmer extraordinaire and owner of Garden-Ville Inc., did some experiments that showed that molasses is a good addition to organic fertilizer (more on fertilizer in the next issue).

When using molasses in the fertilizer spray for his fruit trees he noticed that the fire ants moved out from under the trees. &#8220;I got an opportunity to see if molasses really moved fire ants. In my vineyard, I had a 500 foot row of root stock vines cut back to a stump that needed grafting. The fire ants had made themselves at home along that row. The mounds averaged three feet apart. There was no way a person could work there without being eaten alive! I dissolved 4 tablespoons of molasses in each gallon of water and sprayed along the drip pipe. By the next day the fire ants had moved four feet in each direction. We were able to graft the vines without a single ant bothering us.&#8221;

This gave him the idea for developing an organic fire ant killer that is 30% orange oil and 70% liquid compost made from manure and molasses. The orange oil softens and dissolves the ant&#8217;s exoskeleton, making them susceptible to attack by the microbes in the compost, while the molasses feeds the microbes and also smothers the ants. After the insects are dead, everything becomes energy-rich soil conditioner and will not harm any plant it touches. It can be used on any insect including mosquitoes and their larvae.

Break a small hole in the crust in the center of the mound then quickly!!! pour the solution into the hole to flood the mound and then drench the ants on top. Large mounds may need a second application. Available at Garden-Ville Square in Stafford, it has a pleasant lemonade smell. According to Mark Bowen2, local landscaper and Houston habitat gardening expert, fire ants thrive on disturbed land and sunny grassy areas. &#8220;Organic matter provides a good habitat for fire ant predators such as beneficial nematodes, fungi, etc. Other conditions favoring fire ant predators include shading the ground with plantings, good soil construction practices and use of plants taller than turfgrasses.&#8221; He recommends pouring boiling soapy water over shallow mounds or using AscendTM.
&#8220;Ascend is a fire ant bait which contains a fungal by-product called avermectin and a corn and soybean-based grit bait to attract fire ants. Ascend works slowly enough to get the queen or queens and it controls ants by sterilizing and/or killing them outright.&#8221;

Malcolm Beck also did some experiments with Diatomaceous Earth - DE - (skeletal remains of algae which is ground into an abrasive dust) which confirmed that DE also kills fire ants. He mixes 4 oz. of DE into the top of the mound with lethal results. According to Beck, DE only works during dry weather on dry ant mounds. Pet food kept outdoors will stay ant free if placed on top of a tray with several inches of DE

1Beck, Malcolm. The Garden-Ville Method: Lessons in Nature. Third Edition. San Antonio, TX: Garden-Ville, Inc., 1998.
2Bowen, Mark, with Mary Bowen. Habitat Gardening for Houston and Southeast Texas. Houston, TX: River Bend Publishing
Company, 1998.

As we had also mentioned earlier, while researching the uses of molasses in gardening, we also came across a reference to it&#8217;s use in the control of white cabbage moths. Here&#8217;s what we found on that particular topic.

&#8220;I came across this home remedy from the UK for white cabbage moths.

Mix a tablespoon of molasses in 1 litre of warm water and let cool.. spray every week or every 2 weeks as required for white cabbage moth..they hate it..and I thinkit would be good soil conditioner as well if any drops on your soil.. It works for me...but gotta do it before white butterfly lays eggs...otherwise you might have to use the 2 finger method and squash grubs for your garden birds..

"nutNhoney" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> To the kind soul who posted the tip for spraying members of the cabbage
> family with a molasses solution, thank you so much. Today, I noticed a
> white moth hovering around my brussel sprouts. I quickly made up a
> solution of molasses and rushed back to the garden to spray. The moth
> did not land! It seemed to be repelled by the molasses. I sprayed the
> broccoli too for good measure. I think I will spray again for the next
> few days. If it keeps the cabbage caterpillars off, I will be so happy.
> Thanks again!&#8221;

So there you have it, not necessarily straight from our mouths, but simply one more potential use we&#8217;ve discovered for molasses, with at least one testimonial for it&#8217;s effectiveness. As we said before, the use of molasses as an foliar spray, in addition to it&#8217;s potential use as a pest deterrent, would also serve to provide some essential nutrients directly to our plants, and would especially serve as an effective boost of Potassium for plants diagnosed with a deficiency in K. Healthy plants are more resistant to the threat of pests or disease, so molasses really is a multi-purpose organic pest deterrent._

*Last Bird's Eye Look At Molasses
*
*You&#8217;ve heard a lot now about the sweet sticky goodness of Molasses in the garden, but have we mentioned yet that some folks even view Molasses as a health food?*

*One of the 3LB&#8217;s had a grandmother who would take a swig of molasses twice every day as a part of her health regimen. We don&#8217;t add that as a random fact, but mention it because there&#8217;s an interesting little story attached* . . .

Grandma was driving down the road one day, oblivious to her surroundings, when she was struck with the remembrance that her morning molasses had been forgotten. Most folks wouldn&#8217;t have had a solution for this problem at hand, but we have to tell you that this is a lady who traveled with a small bottle of molasses in her purse!

So Grandma grabbed the brown bottle of molasses from her purse, and proceeded to uncap it and take a gulp as she drove somewhat uncertainly down the road. Chance would have it, that as she performed this somewhat delicate action, she was observed by an officer of the law weaving down the road. Officer LEO observed Grammy directly as she lifted the small
brown bottle to her lips. Of course in that day, beer didn&#8217;t come in an aluminum can, but instead was distributed in little brow bottles that looked quite similar to the molasses bottle Grandma had just swigged. We don&#8217;t need to tell you where the law enforcement officer&#8217;s mind went.

Putting two and two together to equal an apparent and immediate danger to the community in an act of wanton disregard for the law, Officer LEO flipped his vehicle around in a 180 turn, flipped on his lights, and began to pursue Grandma. This was a lady we never were quite comfortable letting children ride with, but it was also a day and age before there were many laws allowing intervention to remove the license of an elderly person no longer competent to drive.

So, we will just say it was a little while before Grandma noticed the red flashing lights in her rear view mirror. After all she&#8217;d been busy putting her molasses away in her purse and watching the road ahead of her, not looking back behind. It probably didn&#8217;t help that Grandmother&#8217;s first instinct was also to believe that the flashing lights behind her were really meant for someone else.

It certainly didn&#8217;t occur to Grandma that all of her actions worked to confirm in Officer LEO&#8217;s mind that he was dealing with an intoxicated old crone with an apparent total disregard for the not only the law, but also other&#8217;s safety. And we probably don&#8217;t need to tell you that he wasn&#8217;t feeling particularly kind or generous when Grammy finally did pull to the road&#8217;s shoulder. As the officer finally approached her car, prepared for trouble from some kind of inebriated old crone, Grandmother came hobbling from her own vehicle a bit unsteadily due to her advanced arthritis.

Fortunately we can report that the final ending was happy, without too much unnecessary drama. After verbally demanding the officer&#8217;s intent, and then producing the offending brown bottle for the officer&#8217;s inspection, grammy was supposedly heard to say, &#8220;Good lands officer, do you really think a woman of my standing in the community would EVER imbibe an alcoholic beverage while driving? Well I NEVER! . . . And didn&#8217;t your mother ever tell you that molasses is good for you?&#8221;

Well folks, there you have it, the &#8220;Molasses Manual&#8221; by the three little birds. 
If your Mother&#8217;s or Grandmother&#8217;s didn&#8217;t tell you about the sticky goodness of molasses, you&#8217;ve heard all about it now from the three little birds. 
Like our Guano Guide was designed to be a fairly comprehensive look at manures,
we hope this look at soil sweeteners gives folks a thorough look at the uses of molasses in their garden. Hopefully now everyone knows the how&#8217;s and why&#8217;s of the uses of this sweetener for the soil.

It looks like the last thing to add is the where&#8217;s. *If you are of the theory that your local hydro shop owner isn&#8217;t rich enough yet, then please by all means go and purchase an expensive carbo load product, but don&#8217;t complain that the three little birds didn&#8217;t warn you that it&#8217;s likely little more than Blackstrap Molasses. *
Hey, spending it there keeps the money recirculating in the economy and is preferable to burying it in a hole in the backyard. However,
if you are a grower who wishes to be a little more frugal, there are certainly cheaper alternatives.

*We&#8217;ve been known to recommend the complete group of Earth Juice fertilizers as a convenient and effective line of liquid organic fertilizers for home herb gardeners. We&#8217;ve grown using all thier products including: Bloom, Grow, Meta-K, Microblast, and Catalyst (Xatalyst in Canada! ) Many other&#8217;s here at CW also report great success and satisfaction with their products. Well, if folks look at the ingredients in Catalyst, one of the first things they will see is molasses. There are some other goodies in there like kelp, oat bran, wheat malt, and yeast, but we&#8217;re thinking that molasses is the main magic in EJ Catalyst.*

*Another choice for obtaining your garden&#8217;s molasses is Grandma&#8217;s source. It&#8217;s pretty likely you can find molasses on the shelf of your local grocery store. For folks living in an urban area this may very well be the best and most economical choice for molasses procurement. But if the folk reading this live anywhere near a rural area, then the best and cheapest source of all will be an farm supply or old fashioned animal feed shop. Your plants don&#8217;t care if your molasses comes out of a bottle designed for the kitchen cupboard, or a big plastic jug designed for the feedlot, but your pocketbook will feel the difference. 
Blackstrap molasses for farm animals is the best overall value for your garden, and it is the molasses option we most strongly endorse for
your garden.*

Although we do our best to post accurate and complete information, we also know that our collective intelligence on a topic far outstrips our individual knowledge and experience, and therefore the collective knowledge and experience of the entire community here at CW is greater still. We also know there are always questions we haven&#8217;t anticipated. So we welcome your questions, we encourage comments, and we sincerely hope for useful additions. We even welcome
criticism, as long as it&#8217;s constructive.

We&#8217;d like to remind folks to be careful out there . . . happy harvests from the 3LB! Originally posted on Cannabis World.
Recreation of 3LB's (three little birds) 

http://www.onlinepot.org/grow/3lbsMolassesManual.htm


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## Shwagbag (May 4, 2013)

Damn dude! I'll come back when I have a cpl hours to kill lol  

Love me some birds, they know their shit. Have you checked out their soil recycling suggestions? 

I have a bit of feedback on the dry molasses. I mixed a cpl tbsns into the top of the soil of several of my mature flowering plants.... More notably, I used it in a batch of tea I made yesterday. 

6 gallons of room temp water bubbled for about a day.
1 cup vermicompost
1 cup Dr. Earth Organic 8 (745)
1 cup Dr. Earth POTting soil
1/3 cup or so of dry molasses
50 ml of Neptunes fish/seaweed

That's it for this batch.

After about 18 hours she was foaming like I've never seen with my teas. Gonna have to use your tidbit of advice on the vegetable oil, ha!

Also, for a great vendor for blackstrap, check natural food stores. They sell it in bulk at a great price! We have Apple Valley Stores in Michigan. Their honey and peanut butter is great too!

Shwag


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## Sincerely420 (May 4, 2013)

Nice boss! You'll have to let me know ow the girls respond in the first couple hours of you using it!
Recipe looks good tho! Gotta bubble for a little longer if you wanna cycle the nutes in the teas tho(that dr. earth). Like 40 hours!

You don't have to, but if you brew a little longer there will be more nutrient byproduct in the tea! In cas you didn't know(even tho you prob did) lol

But i was just reading about the dry Molasses and thinking to myself, "hmmmm, I wonder if it'd be good to use in trying to culture fungi in a pre tea treatment fashion?" I asy so bcuz it's a Molasses sprayed on grain! What do you think?

And do you have any experience with super thrive bro?
Im close to pulling the trigger on a bottle lol, just don't wanna buy anything I can do without.
Brom the looks of it tho, it's a *BEAST *of a supplement!


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## Shwagbag (May 5, 2013)

Morning! My gals were so damn thirsty that I had to drop that batch and I started brewing two more. Its been awhile since they've had tea so they're getting a good dose. Temps in my room are getting high so they're cycling water very fast. 

I'm not sure on the pre-treatment of DM? Seems like it would be worth an experiment lol. 

I've used super-thrive in the past and have some on hand now, but haven't used it in awhile. Honestly I started using it when I knew little to nothing about growing, and probably stopped using it because I continued to have good results even after I ran out. Its some pricey stuff! When I first started using it you could only buy the tiny ass little bottle, since then they've introduced more convenient packaging. I'm interested to hear what you have to say about it because I haven't researched it in a few years. Back then, there was little scientific data available about it. 

Shwag


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

I know I have asked before but I'm having a hard time finding it. Hi-Cal lime. Is this abbreviated for hi calcium limestone?? 

If not can you link me where to buy this via Amazon. If not what can take it's place??


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

Shwagbag said:


> Morning! My gals were so damn thirsty that I had to drop that batch and I started brewing two more. Its been awhile since they've had tea so they're getting a good dose. Temps in my room are getting high so they're cycling water very fast.
> 
> I'm not sure on the pre-treatment of DM? Seems like it would be worth an experiment lol.
> 
> ...


I'm about to do some more digging on it today boss, and I'll either order or not lol, but I'll let you know and of course share what I find wit ya homie!
As I right now I know it's a simple vitamin B supplement for the plants!
But you didn't notice anything extra-ordinary growth or anything?! 



c4ulater said:


> I know I have asked before but I'm having a hard time finding it. Hi-Cal lime. Is this abbreviated for hi calcium limestone??
> 
> If not can you link me where to buy this via Amazon. If not what can take it's place??


What's been goin' on c4?! And it's all good if you can't find Hi-cal lime bro! *Dolomite lime will work just fine and should be much easier to find boss*.

Here's some dolomite on Amazon(I think I saw one cheaper for 9.99) http://www.amazon.com/Scotts-109126-Whitney-Farms-Dolomite/dp/B007ZE0T0U/ref=sr_1_33?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1367764629&sr=1-33&keywords=lime

And here's where I get everything from that I don't get on Amazon! Here is their lime selection! Including Hi-Cal
http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/searchresults/pg?q=lime


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## Shwagbag (May 5, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> I'm about to do some more digging on it today boss, and I'll either order or not lol, but I'll let you know and of course share what I find wit ya homie!
> As I right now I know it's a simple vitamin B supplement for the plants!
> But you didn't notice anything extra-ordinary growth or anything?!


Shit man I don't know. It was just another additive at the time ha! I know some people swear by it, and what they truly put in it is allegedly very secretive. I know it smells funny and its expensive. That's about all I can offer lol.


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

Shwagbag said:


> Shit man I don't know. It was just another additive at the time ha! I know some people swear by it, and what they truly put in it is allegedly very secretive. I know it smells funny and its expensive. That's about all I can offer lol.


Word lol, so I'm about to get all up in super thrive's shit lol, then I'll get back to yas boss


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

Bro, I've been good. Got two weeks left on my current ladies. Going to do your soil mix on the next go.  

Thanks for the links again!!!


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

Nice bossman! You're welcome! & Glad to hear it in regards to your operation!! 

Maybe you'll do a thread next time?!


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

Yeah dude. On the next go.

Okay, so hey - on the website that's not Amazon what kind of hi Cal lime. I saw a few kinds. Could you specifically link it? I'd like to be on the same page with ya.


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

Sounds good brother, and here is the link for the lime I have and use!
It lasts for at least a year bro maybe even two....(in the respect that you won't have to buy anymore for a WHILE)

http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/hi-cal-lime-fifth-season-pulverized-5-lb/dp/2349


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

http://cals.arizona.edu/yavapai/anr/hort/byg/archive/vitaminb1androotstimulators.html 

This read was the one(of many), that said it all for me boss


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

*Phosphorus  Why Worry? - February 27, 2013*
Jeff Schalau, Agent, Agriculture & Natural Resources
University of Arizona Cooperative Extension, Yavapai County

[HR][/HR] *Phosphorus is an essential nutrient for all living organisms including the food crops we grow. *Its part of DNA, used in energy transfer in living cells, and contributes to the structure of cell membranes. Moreover, phosphorus fertilizers have been instrumental in boosting crop yields to feed the Earths burgeoning population. Backyard gardeners may think of phosphorus as the middle number on the fertilizer package or as the bone meal they use to amend planting holes. Understanding a little more about global phosphorus supplies, fertilizer manufacturing, and phosphorus availability in our soils should help backyard gardeners make informed decisions related to its use.

Phosphorus exists primarily in sediments and rock. When marine organisms die or are eaten and excreted by other animals, some of the phosphorus in their bodies sinks to the ocean floor and gets buried in sediment, eventually becoming rock. Over millions of years, that rock shifts and lifts back up to Earths surface. The rocks weather and break down, forming new soil containing phosphorus that can nourish plant growth. Phosphorus from dead plants and the carcasses or excrement of animals is also released to the environment where it can be taken up by plants. Otherwise, it too eventually makes its way to the ocean.

Phosphate rock is the main source of phosphorus for fertilizers. The earth holds a limited amount of easily accessible, high quality phosphate rock. The United States (mainly Florida) produced 14% of the worlds phosphorus in 2012. China is the largest producer at 42% with Morocco, Russia, and Jordan producing 13%, 5%, and 3% respectively (from USGS Reference included below). As high-quality deposits become depleted, remaining untapped reserves generally contain less phosphorus. Some researchers predict that the annual amount of phosphorus retrieved from mined phosphate rock could peak sometime this century. As you might expect, this has sparked conversations about food security.

The plant available phosphorus in rock phosphate is very low. This combined with high transportation costs has resulted in the industrial manufacture of phosphorus fertilizers. Briefly, rock phosphate is treated with acid to produce orthophosphoric acidthe phosphate form that is taken up by plants. One phosphorus fertilizer, triple super phosphate, contains 45% by weight plant available phosphate (0-45-0). Certified organic producers are not allowed to use these fertilizers and must rely on rock phosphate, manure, animal byproducts, or compost to supply phosphorus. These materials have lower amounts of plant available phosphorus than inorganic fertilizers (60-80%) and generally have much higher costs to achieve similar results.

To further complicate our gardening efforts, maximum phosphorus availability occurs between soil pH 6.0 to 7.0. In Yavapai County our soils tend to be alkaline and have a pH of 7.0 to 7.8 and greater. Soils with a pH of 7.5 and higher typically have a high calcium concentration that binds phosphorus as calcium-phosphate creating an insoluble compound that is not available to plants (this is called P fixation).

Vegetable and annual flower gardeners can amend soils with soil sulfur and organic matter to temporarily decrease the soil pH. Where soil pH is 8 or higher, add elemental sulfur annually at a rate of 6 to 10 pounds per 1,000 square feet of area. Elemental sulfur slowly oxidizes in soil to form sulfuric acid. Test the soil occasionally and stop adding sulfur when pH has reached desirable levels. All vegetable and flower gardeners should amend soils with composted organic matter prior to planting. After following the above recommendations, phosphorus fertilizers can be placed 6-8 deep (called banding) where roots will grow into the fertilized soil.

Native plants have adaptations (primarily mycorrhizal fungi infected roots) that allow them to acquire needed phosphorus without using fertilizers. These plants should not be fertilized with anything as this could compromise these desirable mycorrhizal associations. For fruit trees, lawns, roses and other permanent plantings requiring additional fertilizers, apply nitrogen containing fertilizers as recommended. Phosphorus fertilizers should not be applied to the soil surface because phosphorus would be fixed at the soil surface and made unavailable.

We should strive to keep the value and importance of phosphorus in mind as we make gardening and consumer choices. Also, check out the resources Ive included below.

Follow the Backyard Gardener on Twitter  use the link on the BYG website. If you have other gardening questions, call the Master Gardener help line in the Camp Verde office at 928-554-8999 Ext. 3 or e-mail us at [email protected] and be sure to include your name, address and phone number. Find past Backyard Gardener columns or provide feedback at the Backyard Gardener web site: http://cals.arizona.edu/yavapai/anr/hort/byg/.

*Additional Resources*

*Phosphate Rock*, U.S. Geological Survey, Mineral Commodity Summaries, January 2013
2013USGSphosphorusmineralcommoditysummary.pdf

*Understanding Phosphorus Fertilizers*, University of Minnesota Extension
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/cropsystems/dc6288.html

*Phosphorus Fertilizers for Organic Farming Systems*, Colorado State University Extension
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/crops/00569.html

*Managing Soil pH in Utah*, Utah State University Extension
http://extension.usu.edu/files/publications/publication/AG-SO-07.pdf

*Salvage Job: With Fertilizer Prices Skyrocketing, Scientists Scramble to Recover Phosphorus from Waste*, Science News February 23, 2013; Vol.183 #4 
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/348109/description/Salvage_Job


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

SOMEBEECH said:


> I can see tht with your method the terpenes n terpoids should be off the chart!
> Wahts the signs of pathogenic infection?
> Beech


Here you go Beech! Just passed by this one! Doesn't say a whole lot, but there's some useful bits of info abound!










*Plant Diseases - May 23, 2012*
Jeff Schalau, Agent, Agriculture & Natural Resources
University of Arizona Cooperative Extension, Yavapai County

[HR][/HR] The study of plant diseases is called plant pathology or phytopathology. Plant diseases can occur if a pathogen (disease causing organism) is present on a susceptible host plant under suitable environmental conditions for the necessary period of time. These four elements (pathogen, host, environment, and time) are the points of the plant disease tetrahedron. Remove or alter one of these elements, and the plant disease will not occur. This relationship is also the rationale for treatment of plant diseases.

Living organisms that cause plant diseases (biotic pathogens) include fungi, bacteria, viruses, nematodes, parasitic plants, phytoplasmas, and spiroplasmas. Plant diseases can also be caused by non-living factors such as wind, drought, air pollution, extreme temperatures, herbicide injury, poor drainage, etc. These are called abiotic plant diseases and no infectious pathogen is involved. Biotic and abiotic diseases are often differentiated by determining if the disease is spreading within or between plants. When the disease spreads, we look for living pathogens. When the disease is stationary, it is likely abiotic.

Diagnosing plant diseases is like being a plant detective. You begin by looking for clues: signs and symptoms. Signs are visible evidence of the disease organism itself and could be fungal fruiting bodies (mushrooms or conks) or bacterial ooze. Symptoms are how the plant reacts to the pathogen. Examples of symptoms are cankers, blight, wilt, necrosis, and other types of abnormal growth. Plant disease diagnosis requires some experience in recognizing normal vs. abnormal growth.

Fungi are similar to plants, but lack chlorophyll and must find energy through associations with other living or dead organisms. They are the single most important cause of plant disease. Of the 100,000 known fungal species, 10,000 can cause diseases in plants. All plants are attacked by some form of fungi and many fungi can cause disease on a wide variety of plant species. For example, Cotton Root Rot (_Phymatotrichum omnivorum_) has been recorded on over 2,300 species of broadleaf plants. However, monocots (grasses, lilies, palms, bamboos, and many others) are resistant. Management of most fungal plant diseases is difficult. The most common approaches are prevention and sanitation (cleaning tools, sterilizing soil, etc.). Fungicides are most effective as preventative treatments. Once the fungal pathogen is present, it is much more difficult to manage.

Bacteria are the most abundant of all organisms and they occur mainly in soil and water, but can also be airborne. They are generally very small (0.5-5 microns) and occur as single cells. Many bacteria are beneficial to individual organisms and ecosystems (such as those present in our digestive systems). A few species of bacteria are plant pathogenic. These bacterial plant diseases are mostly managed through prevention, sanitation, and somethimes through the use of antibacterial sprays. Fire blight is an example of a bacterial disease that affects some plants in the rose family.

Viruses are much smaller than bacteria and made up of only genetic material (DNA or RNA) surrounded by a protein coat. They are commonly introduced to plants through an insect vector (often aphids, whiteflies, and leafhoppers). Once inside a plant, they reproduce and cause various symptoms. Prevention and sanitation are the only management strategies available. Curly top virus is a common disease in our area that affects beets, tomatoes, peppers, beans, potatoes, spinach, and cucurbits. It is vectored by the beet leafhopper.

Nematodes are microscopic roundworms. Many nematode species are considered beneficial because they parasitize pest insects. The root knot nematode is the most common plant pathogenic nematode encountered by home gardeners. Root knot nematodes feed on plant roots causing swelling of root tissue and impairment of water and nutrient uptake. Treatments for root knot nematodes are limited. Since it is not a native organism, it must be introduced through soil importation or infected plant material. Here again, prevention and sanitation are the only practical management strategies.

Common parasitic plants in Arizona are true mistletoes, dwarf mistletoes, and dodder (a stringy, straw-colored mass growing atop other plants). These are seed plants that infect a host and use its resources. True mistletoes are green, contain chlorophyll, and conduct photosynthesis to produce carbohydrates. They rely on the host for water and mineral nutrients. Dwarf mistletoes and dodder lack chlorophyll and rely on the host for water, mineral nutrients, and carbohydrates. Management strategies vary based on the host and the specific pathogen.

Phytoplasmas are spiroplasmas are relatives of bacteria, vectored by insects, and uncommon plant pathogens outside the tropics.

In many cases, plant diseases are complexes consisting of multiple causal agents. For instance, a tree may have been damaged by a string trimmer at the base and that wound could become an entry point for a pathogen. Being a plant disease detective requires knowledge of plants and diseases, field experience, and a broad view of the entire picture.


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

Gonna pick some up here within the next week!










*Grow Some Aloe Vera - June 22, 2011*
Jeff Schalau, Associate Agent, Agriculture & Natural Resources
University of Arizona Cooperative Extension, Yavapai County

[HR][/HR] Aloe Vera (_Aloe barbadensis_) is probably the most widely used medicinal plant in the world. It is originally from Africa, but the exact geographic origin of Aloe Vera is questionable because it is easily transplanted and has been used medicinally for over 6,000 years. It is widely used in the home to treat cuts and burns, but has been used to treat other maladies by various cultures. There are references to Aloe Vera from the Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Indian, and Chinese cultures. The Spanish brought it to South America and the Caribbean Islands. It is in most homes and people continue to share it with friends.

There are about 180 Aloe species. All are succulents and they range from short-stalked clumps, like Aloe Vera, to trunk forming forms that resemble small trees. In Africa, they occupy the same ecological niche that Agave occupies in our southwestern deserts. Aloe Vera grows as a flattened, rosette which spreads outward by underground rhizomes and forms a cluster of fleshy leaves edged with short, soft prickles. The leaves are usually 8 to 10 inches long and speckled with patches of light green and gray, giving a mottled appearance. Aloe Vera can be grown outdoors in areas where there is no chance of freezing and produces flowers in the spring in the desert. The flower stem is 2 to 3 feet tall and topped with profuse tubular yellow flowers.

Aloe Vera makes an excellent potted indoor plant when kept in a bright location near a south or west facing window. During the summer months, the soil should be completely soaked, but allowed to dry between watering. Use a good commercial potting mix with extra perlite, granite grit, or coarse sand added or packaged 'cacti mix' potting soil. The pot should have a large drainage hole. Fertilize in the spring with a dilute solution of bloom type fertilizer (10-40-10). Potted Aloe Vera plants can be moved outdoors during the summer as long as you remember to bring them back indoors prior to the first fall freeze.

Aloes are often propagated by removing the offsets (also called pups) which are produced around the base of mature plants, when they are a couple inches tall. If needed, cut the offset away from the mother plant with a clean sharp knife. Allow the wounded area to dry and scab over for two or three days before replanting in the potting mix. This will prevent disease organisms from harming the young plant. Aloes can also be grown from seed but takes time and is most successful under greenhouse conditions.

Aloe Vera is also big business. One company lists over 300 kinds of cosmetics, medicines and ointments that are made from various Aloe extracts. Most of the Aloe grown commercially is from the Caribbean, south Florida or south Texas. The leaf is cut lengthwise to extract the sap within. The sap is evaporated and yields a crystalline glycoside called aloin which is very bitter. This is used in many products and is listed as Aloe extract on the product label.

While medical research has failed to validate many of the believed properties of Aloe Vera, fresh sap is widely used to sooth minor burns and insect bites. For this use, cut a section of a leaf away from the plant, slice longitudinally, open to expose the sap, and apply sap directly to the affected area. Other claims say that Aloe Vera has healed radiation burns and psoriasis, eased intestinal problems, reduced blood sugar in diabetes, reduced arthritic swelling, curtailed HIV infection, stimulated immune response against cancer, and more. I am not a medical doctor and would not advise a person to use Aloe Vera to heal anything more than a cut, burn, or insect bite without first consulting their physician. However, I would advise growing Aloe Vera as it is one of the easiest plants to grow successfully. It is available in many nurseries and garden centers or simply ask a friend or neighbor for an offset.


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

Hey ,

Okay so for the Mycorrhiza , where and what do you get??

I'm putting in my order in now. Just got castings and bat guano today.


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

c4ulater said:


> Hey ,
> 
> Okay so for the Mycorrhiza , where and what do you get??
> 
> I'm putting in my order in now. Just got castings and bat guano today.


I have this bossman:

http://www.amazon.com/Earth-Juice-Rooters-Mycorrhizae-1-Pound/dp/B001GE8GY6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1367786590&sr=8-2&keywords=mycorrhizae


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

Thanks! 

Also says your originally started with adding Glacial rock dust. Do you not re-add this to your soil when recycling?


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

NVM Just read up on that. Sorry mate!


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

It's all good boss, but yeah I went ahead and bought more and added it in.
It's invaluable in the amount of trace elements and minerals it brings to the table.

You don't really add it for any direct nutritional reason, moreso to condition the soil.
As a byproduct of having added it however, we'll get a bonus in everything else!


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

Crazy thing is with this 5th season website is that I might as well buy everything from there. Or what I can. Amazons + shipping cost a little more than this website. 

A few questions with this : http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/azomite-micronizer-fifth-season-5-lb/dp/282

Will that Azomite be fine? Not sure of brands you use and ish. I'm sure all works the same.


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

5th doesn't have rock dust which is why I got that from Amazon. Everything else I got from 5th tho. I found a new store locally to get EWCs from tho, so I been going that route, but before that, I jsut got the wiggle worm castings from 5th.
Azomite it kinda sorta the same thing, you just have to use it a bit more mildly!
They have azomite there as well tho which I have.

And you're not gonna have to buy anything more for atleast a year boss.
You'll need more compost to recondition you're soil with, and more EWCs but that's it...Maybe more perlite from time to time too, but I only spent money on EWC, compost, perlite and more rock dust for the next grow!

And it'll be that way for maybe 2 more grows!

Then MAYBE i might need to buy more kelp meal, tomato tone, and bat guano!


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

Okay cool man! 

Dude I thought you were up on that Worm Farm GAME BRO!? GET AT MEEEEEEE

I started mine - LOOKING GOOD son.

Edit : Started a COMPOST as well. Should get some *GOLD* soon. I'm done spending money when that shit is right chere.


How long will 5lbs of Azomite last????


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

Haha I'm working bro! Gotta make some moves to the new place, so figured I'd wait till I'm settled again! But I'm coming back to you when I need some tips lol.

And 5lbs of azomite will last you a few grows bossman.


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

Oh sheet. 
Is the Greensand from 5th straight too?


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## Shwagbag (May 5, 2013)

Working on a composter this week myself. I've decided to just build one out of a trash can. I'm sick of throwing away all of my paper, kitchen scraps and plant material. I throw ALOT of plant material away too. I should be able to build a decent compost with leaves, paper, kitchen scraps and grass clippings. Probably throw a bag of compost in there to kick it off with little vermicompost. I figure a trash can can be used to emulate The Earth Machine for a fraction of the expense after watching a few youtube vids.


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

Yessiree! Everything they have is legit and at a good price.
Might wanna get some Alfalfa meal too boss. That's good shitt!!!
I'll work some in with my next mix. Haven't use it yet as a whole, but it's WILDLY popular! And there's some in the tomato tone that I use


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

Shwagbag said:


> Working on a composter this week myself. I've decided to just build one out of a trash can. I'm sick of throwing away all of my paper, kitchen scraps and plant material. I throw ALOT of plant material away too. I should be able to build a decent compost with leaves, paper, kitchen scraps and grass clippings. Probably throw a bag of compost in there to kick it off with little vermicompost. I figure a trash can can be used to emulate The Earth Machine for a fraction of the expense after watching a few youtube vids.


Nice homie! Peep that Phosphorus read a couple reads back! I think you'll find that interesting!
And hell yeah in regards to the composting boss! Sounds like a good idea to me! Maybe even introduce some worms and see how they take to it lol.
Saw one of the earth machine on CL the other day haha, hit the dude up right away and it was gone! It was only $25!

And I was thinking about buying that worm bin but paying that much for something that the simplest ppl are making DIY, just don't sit right w/ me..
So AS SOON as I'm settled in the new place, I'm gonna get to building! Composting and vermicomposting is the way to go totally sustainable for me man, just gotta be able to do is at discreetly as I grow ya know?! 
Can't wait tho man! Glad to know I'll have some minds to pick lol


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## Shwagbag (May 5, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Nice homie! Peep that Phosphorus read a couple reads back! I think you'll find that interesting!
> And hell yeah in regards to the composting boss! Sounds like a good idea to me! Maybe even introduce some worms and see how they take to it lol.
> Saw one of the earth machine on CL the other day haha, hit the dude up right away and it was gone! It was only $25!
> 
> ...



I can't hardly keep up with all the juicy stuff you're posting lol. 

I know when you move you'll have your hands in all sorts of good shit!

If it works like I hope I'll have worms in there too, gonna compost using the trash can upside down and keep it nice and moist. The vids I viewed seemed as if worms naturally made their way into the mix to feed from the ground up. Peep this video.

Enjoy whats left of the weekend playa.


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

AMEN on the composting shit. I bought a trash can and drilled holes in it. Starting to look like gold now. Just need to keep adding and rotating!


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

[video=youtube_share;xCUEvc6Hlw8]http://youtu.be/xCUEvc6Hlw8[/video]

Kudos Swag


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

That's a basic one. I made mine easy for tumbling. 

As far as Red Wigglers, that was cake to find. Since I have lettuce growing any ways and can never seem to eat it on time I just throw it to the wormZ. I started off with 5, now I have like 10. It has only been a month !!! <WORMS THAT IS>

Yo btw, thanks for everything dude. You're my go-to-guy for soil. 

I just bought a book : Teaming with Microbes and I'll be geeking out coming this week.


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

Can't wait to get in the worm game! Got a nice local supplier or red wigglers and night crawlers, so I'm def. gonna get it in!

My lass is getting in the game tho lol! We've got like 6 house plants now that she tends haha! Gonna pick up some aloe here soon and get that in to rotation!
But no prob man, and thank you too man! I love what I'm doing right now and I wanna be the best at it! Not necessarily better than the next person, but meaning I wanna know everything I possibly can, and why boss. 
Understanding the small things makes the bigger picture easier to get for me.
But thanks for linking up sir! I've still got a lot to learn, so ANYTHING you can contribute, or that you come across and find useful! Do drop the knowledge right here!
I've been sorta hoarding things that I found helpful here.

And Teaming with Microbes is gonna do you real well! I've got that as well!

& Let me know when you get to mixing tho!


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

That's awesome! 

I just put the order in for everything just now. 

Since I'm starting this mix from scratch do I just follow your ingredient ? Minus the stuff that you re-amended? 
I'm guessing - once I mix this - do I let it sit for a month-ish?


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

Do you have a base soil already? Or some good organic soil around the premises?
Fox Farms Ocean Forest was my base initially.


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

Currently being used is FFOF with the two ladies I have. But I've used nutes in it because it needed food. All FF Line though. Problem with this soil is ; I used 1 gal pots with MG (crap) to start off with (didnt know any better). So I kind of not want to use the soil that's being used now. 

THOUGH - After learning that MG is bad to use, I purchased another FFOF bag. New - not opened STILL. Waiting to get the rest of the goodies in


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

Nice.

So let that new bag of FFOF be your base soil, which'll be 7.5gals.
You gonna have compost ready to go? And how many plants you running the first go? 
You can stretch that 7.5gallons of FFOF out to about 10-10.5, by adding more compost and EWCs.


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

My compost is still cooking. Wont have anything for a month or two.

- 4 to 6 plants
- I can always go buy more FFOF and more EWC's if needed.


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

If you're gonna grow 4 plants, in 3 gallon pots you can pull it off with just the one bag.
If you're gonna go 4, you gonna need another bag. Then the mix would change a little.

And can you source some compost? They have it at 5th in the form of Ancient Forest.
And at Lowes in the from of eco scraps.

I didn't use added compost with my OG mix, but I'd recommend adding some to you have gone thru it.


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

Well I bought Ancient Forest since I saw it in your "recycled mix" so I figured to just buy everything on your recent mix / recycled mix.

What'cha think 'bout that 

So does this mean I can just use the Ancient Forest compost instead of buying another bag of FFOF???


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

Nice! You're good then!
*Per 1.5cubic foot bag of Fox Farm Ocean Forest
-32cups Earthworm Casting
-32cups Ancient Forest
-16cups Perlite
-11tsp Rooters Mycorrhizae
*_*This is your soil base or base soil. The Added EWC and compost just boosts you humus content. The perlite is for aeration. FFOF has some already within, but you'll need to add some to compensate for the added humus(EWC and compost). You can make sort of a judgement call as to how much you wanna you. But a gallon extra should be cool._*
__________________________
-1.5cups Indonesian Hi-P Bat Guano (.5-13-.2)
-1.5cups Algamin Kelp Meal (1-0-2)
-1.5cups Espoma Tomato Tone (3-4-6)
*_*Nutritional Amendments. You can bump up to 2cups of Kelp meal, but everything else I'd keep constant as it's worked!_*
__________________________
-4 cups rock dust
-1 cup Azomite
-0.5cup Espoma Green sand 
-1 cup Hi-Cal Lime
*_*Mineral Amendments. _*
__________________________*

You got all of the above?


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

Yes. 

Specifically Glacial Rock Dust 

Everything should be here by the end of next week  OR sooner!


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

I should really only do 4 pots though. Lack of space and I plan on SCROG'ing and topping/FIM 

Want big yield with fewer plants. Not a lot of plants - then have a space issue with light not hitting other plants. Etc.


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

Then I think that mix right there is gonna do you a solid boss!

*edit I'm sure about that


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

I see that you spent about a month in "veg" time. Well from seedling to flowering. ABOUT-ish. 

With that being asked. How many months can you get out of this soil - at least to your knowledge / recordings ?

Without re-amending it & nutes / teas


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

c4ulater said:


> I see that you spent about a month in "veg" time. Well from seedling to flowering. ABOUT-ish.
> 
> With that being asked. How many months can you get out of this soil - at least to your knowledge / recordings ?
> 
> Without re-amending it & nutes / teas


It's hard to say unless you get it tested before and after you use it ya know? And I haven't done that.
But I do know that the ecosystem in the soil will be balanced enough for your girls to thrive no matter what they are.
My philoshopy is to not go too heavy on anything in the soil other than compost or EWCs, because everything else can be supplemented as it goes..
And the compost&EWC(humus)content is the most important part of the living soil, because it's where the brunt of the microbes will come from.
The things we do add are only to feed those microbes in the soil, which will ingest the ferts we put in the soil, and hold them inside their bodies, until the roots come searching and secreting exduates so that these nutes are released.

I spent about 5-6weeks veg my first run. And I'm a tea all the time guy! I swear by them man. So I'll use them as much as I can.
SO to be honest, I can't tell you how long can I go without. I just knows it's best to reconditioning the soil if you wanna reuse it you know?! And that includes reamending. I figure each time I reuse it I should be able to add half of what I did before as far as amending it...That until I have a totally jumping batch of soil

But we don't use bottle nutes...we make our own in the form of teas!


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

I hear ya bro.

Well I remember you id your first run with just water , nothing else. IS that right? Or did you still use tea? 

Sorry just trying to get my facts right 


I'm saving all the tea from the worm farm drainage. I know I'd have to make my own - but still


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

That Master Gardening sectional is gonna get you right boss! EVERYTHING is there!

And I uses teas all throughout with my first batch brother!
Just got better with it as time has gone!


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

BUT, you can go water only boss man! I'd HIGHLY recommend using teas tho, just because they've worked wonder for me 
Just try one every once in a while just to watch what happens within the next 2-4 hours after you've applied it. 
I swear the plants grow right after you tea them up!


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

I just started n Teaming with Microbes! Getting my study time in then going to his the bed up. 

We will chat tomorrow , friend  I may have more questions for you then !!


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## hyroot (May 5, 2013)

^^^^^^^ when I topdress with compost and/ or worm castings then water with a molasses solution. They grow rediculously fast by the next day too. Compost teas are awesome. So many hydro growers out here hate on us organic soil growers.... if they only knew how to grow.


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## c4ulater (May 5, 2013)

Okay Sincerely420 , 

Stopped my reading for the night as my eyes are getting tired.

Just a thought -- 

Can you give me some tea ideas?

Veg , Bloom , etc??

What to use and etc.


---------


By the way while I let the new soil cook I'll be reconstructing my new grow space. I currently have a 4x4x6.5 Tent. Going to keep that just for Vegging - and build a room for Flowering.


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> *Compost Tea Recipes*
> 
> *If you are using a municipal source of water, aerate the water for 15-20 min prior to adding ingredients. This will evaporate the chlorine from your water.
> *_*didn't know chlorine evaporated so quickly.._*
> ...


Bump for you C4


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

There's more tea stuff throughout the thread boss


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## Sincerely420 (May 5, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> *Soo...I'm on my 3rd soil mix using Fox Farms Ocean Forest as a base soil!*
> 
> *This mix is a little different tho as I'm reusing the soil from 3 plants that I harvest this month!*
> *The soil mix that I used for those 3 plants was:*
> ...


#bumpwork.


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## tobinates559 (May 6, 2013)

for my next grow i want to try pretty much 1 bag each of all the FF soils they all add their own touch, maybe add a little bone meal and a few other things as needed! any thoughts?


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## Herb Man (May 6, 2013)

Let me step in here S man if I may, from the perspective of a man who resisted the notion of using teas on the basis that I didnt really want the hassle of mixing up stuff like a chemist in a lab.

I came across this mix in a link I think you posted.

*A good example of a guano tea recipe at the Birds Nest is really as simple as the following:**
1 Gallon of water
1 TBSP of guano (for a flowering mix wed use Jamaican or Indonesian Bat Guano - for a more general use fertilizer we
would choose Peruvian Seabird Guano.)
1 tsp blackstrap or sugar beet molasses

We mix the ingredients directly into the water and allow the tea mix to brew for 24 hours. Its best to use an aquarium pump to aerate the tea, but an occasional shaking can suffice if necessary and still produce a quality tea. We will give you one hint from hard personal experience, make sure if you use the shake method that you hold the lid on securely, nobody appreciate having a crap milkshake spread over the room.*
*We also use molasses to sweeten and enrich Alfalfa meal teas. Our standard recipe for this use is:**
4 gallons of water
1 cup of fine ground alfalfa meal
1 TBSP blackstrap or sugar beet molasses

After a 24 hour brew, this 100% plant-based fertilizer is ready for application. Alfalfa is a great organic plant food, with many benefits above and beyond just the NP-K it can contribute to a soil mix or tea.*


It was/is so simple that it ensures that I will be starting on my journey of being a tea maker once I pick up a water pump


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## Sincerely420 (May 6, 2013)

tobinates559 said:


> for my next grow i want to try pretty much 1 bag each of all the FF soils they all add their own touch, maybe add a little bone meal and a few other things as needed! any thoughts?


Don't use bone meal and blood meal or and fish bone meal if you can avoid them!
They're slaughterhouse byproducts.....Processed, dried, blood, bone, and guts.

If you gonna add a touch of anything, try tomato tone, or alfalfa meal, or kelp meal and guanos bro! Everything you wanna know is here throughout this thread! I'll be bumping lots of it here soon. If you find anything interesting while reading, bump it! 
But EVERYTHING you wanna know it here. Have a read and then get back to me bro!


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## Sincerely420 (May 6, 2013)

Herb Man said:


> Let me step in here S man if I may, from the perspective of a man who resisted the notion of using teas on the basis that I didnt really want the hassle of mixing up stuff like a chemist in a lab.
> 
> I came across this mix in a link I think you posted.
> 
> ...


Just got that new guano I remember haha so I know this recipe is* RIGHT* up your alley lol! I haven't used that particular tea yet but I', used that recipe with a little soil/compost added to it! But the 3 little birds are for sure legit, so you should have success with the mix bro! Post you opinion of how it worked for your girls once you use it boss! You should be able to notice seom growth within the first 4 hours boss! Nice bump homie


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## c4ulater (May 6, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Nice! You're good then!
> *Per 1.5cubic foot bag of Fox Farm Ocean Forest
> -32cups Earthworm Casting
> -32cups Ancient Forest
> ...



Can't wait to give this a GOOOOOO.. C'mon mail


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## c4ulater (May 6, 2013)

Uhg 5th Season didn't ship out my stuff today  Gunna e-mail em tomorrow. Did it take time for them to process it for ya?


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## c4ulater (May 6, 2013)

lucky.. i'll wait till tmrw to see if they processed it.


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## Sincerely420 (May 6, 2013)

c4ulater said:


> lucky.. i'll wait till tmrw to see if they processed it.


I hate waiting too bossman! But the best things are really worth waiting for!


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## Sincerely420 (May 7, 2013)




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## c4ulater (May 7, 2013)

Tasty ))


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## Herb Man (May 7, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Just got that new guano I remember haha so I know this recipe is* RIGHT* up your alley lol! I haven't used that particular tea yet but I', used that recipe with a little soil/compost added to it! But the 3 little birds are for sure legit, so you should have success with the mix bro! Post you opinion of how it worked for your girls once you use it boss! You should be able to notice seom growth within the first 4 hours boss! Nice bump homie


Well you know me, I'm a minimalist lol, so this two ingredient *[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot] [/FONT] [/FONT]* tea is perfect for me 

I'm due to make this my first tea application in the next few days, so I'll be sure to report back.

No probs bud


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## c4ulater (May 7, 2013)

Well shucks. Today I got a hold of 5th and the online order Guy is out of town. Order should be here by next week. Darnit


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## c4ulater (May 7, 2013)

Have you ever though about using earth boxes by the way


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## Sincerely420 (May 7, 2013)

Well damn....Can't really ever account for human error or mishap huh?!


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## c4ulater (May 7, 2013)

See my other post ? 

IF not : 

Have you though about doing a grow with a Earth-Box or something a like? Still soil based  Just w/ a res.
I know plenty of people who use it and keep re-cycling their soil but growing legit tomatoes


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## Sincerely420 (May 7, 2013)

c4ulater said:


> See my other post ?
> 
> IF not :
> 
> ...


I missed that question from ya bro, but I've never looked into anything like that!
I looked into some of the self wicking setups and all that but I figure I've got time to do everything manually.
I'm still learning things, so manually watering I feel like will keep me on top of things. It's a little more effort especially bcuz I water so slowly, but i'm not pressed about the extra effort as the reward it worth it!

I feel like 3gal pots will be best for me as they're small but can grow a full size plant, so I can cram them ya know?
I'm in using all smart pots this upcoming run to flower in, but if I don't like the result, I'm going back to grow bags as I've had excellent results with those, and they're SO MUCH CHEAPER than fabric pots or "smart pots".

You looking into going the earth-box route? I'm def. gonna try to keep the soil a little more wet in the smart pots tho, as they dry out faster.
I'll be documenting eveything again tho, and I'll let you know once I start the thread!


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## c4ulater (May 8, 2013)

I'm currently using 3# Smart Pots. I have two 5# and will Veg longer with that to see how big I can get it. I have noticed with the fabric that it DOES in fact dry out faster. But I like it because now I have a system with it. Day 1 : Water / Day 2 : Dry / Day 3 : Check to see if it needs water, if not go one more day.

Question with feeding with tea. Do you feed once a week? Or twice?

Heres another *question :* From going by numbers I have two weeks left 'till harvest. But how can I tell? My colas are still looking strictly white. Some people wait 'till 75% amber colour. The leaves are slowly loosing the green colour because I know it's getting towards the end. But I may do one more run of home-made organic cal-mag just to keep it running. MY understanding is the last watering is flush - so yeah. 

I want to use earth box for outdoor set-up. I think that it'd be easy. Or maybe I can just use the 5# smart pots for that.

I just had a dream that I grew with Coco organically. I wonder how the hell that's possible. Use a lot of tea? HAHA


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## Sincerely420 (May 8, 2013)

*TYPED ENTIRE RESPONSE AND LOST IT! DAMN IT!*
_So this is your back up response haha._

But I just bought a pack of 10 #3 smarties for my next run. I'll be finishing all my girls in those.
I start out in solo cups, and then somewhere between days 14-21,(depending on growth) I transplant them to 1 gal grow bags.
I'll then top them back to just about the 2nd true node(to grow all main colas), train them to the outside of the grow bag, let them grow a little, and then transplant them into the 3 gal smarties.
Once in the smarties they get trained to the outside of the smarties for a week or two, and are allowed to grow up from that point on! 
I did a couple plants this way last run, and like the results enough that I've decided to build off of this system!

And I've had a similar system like yours! 
Usually I start with like a 4 day gap in water the plants from the second week on, and I wait until the plant wilt(once they get some foliage), and start to give them water the day before that..I only mist the plants the first seven days tho.
But as they get bigger they'll need more water and will eventually wilt sooner, so you know you need to give water a day earlier than that! 
By the end of flowering I'm watering every other day.

And I don't flush and my ashes burn all white with no after taste bro! 
I gave teas to my last crop the watering before their last, just to see if it's taste different from the first crop, which I've given water on the last couple weeks. There is/was no difference in the smoke. My first white widow was flushed but the next three weren't.

There's no need to flush in organics(if your soil is healthy), because the microbes feed of the fertilizers we added and hold them within.
The roots control what nutrients the plants get at all times. There's no stored nutrients in the plants that need to be flushed, as everything is stored beneath, in the soil.
In the final 2-3 weeks, the plants in our mix will start to lose green and there's nothing we can do about it.
I mean of course we can hit them with some chemical fertilizer to keep them green, and say F the soil eco system, but that's not natural..
Leaves fall in the fall and losing that color in natural so when it happens don't sweat it.
As long as the bud leaves remain green, there are no problems! 

And don't go by the number bro. It's good as a reference, but won't always be realistic.
The number or dates they're giving us are ideal when we're growing in ideal conditions.
I'd guess that 100w HPS per plant with CO2.
But we have to add weeks on to our harvest date sometimes due to human error and things like training the plants.

What I've learned is that there's moreso a "peak harvest" window. The more indica dominant the plant, the smaller that window(5-10 roughly).
The more sativa dominant, the longer(10-21days roughly). 
When you harvest during the peak window, you get your plants full punch to the brain!
There's more science in the degradation of the trichs and effect is has on the high as well, and in going thru all of this, I've figured that I want to experience every plant for all it's worth! Don't wanna let the THC degrade for a couch lock effect..
If I want more couch lock lol I pop some more White Widow, or run some Kushes! Some indy dominant.

If I want more uplifting and energetic, It'll take me a bit longer to grow some sativas, but it'll be worth it in the end!

And lets just say that I've have GREAT success using teas 3/4 watering during my first run, and every other watering during my second run, so this third run I plant to use them every single watering! We'll see how it goes, but I'm planning on blowing it away boss!
For you tho, I'd suggest a tea once a week until you start and really get then hang of them.
If you feel comfy sooner than expected, I'd give them every other watering. Or every watering like I'll be.
I also dilute them with water 1:1 everytime, just in case the proportions within are a little off. Thats not somthing you have to do, but moreso a safety net(for me at least). I somtimes I give a little more tea than water but I always cut my teas with some water.

The thing is, every tea has it's own personality lol. The slightest difference in ingredients added and water temp and amount of aeration and all that could make the end results vary. So with every tea it's hit or miss...The good thing about it is, if you miss, you've got an army of microbes working for you.
The greater thing is is you hit, you plants get a dose is food in the natural form...Yeah they don't know which N is which, but the microbes do lol!
And when you do hit, your plants grow noticeably within the hours after! Very much so!
What can be used immediately, will be used immediatly, the moment it hits the rhizosphere.
What's not needed will be held in the soil for future consumption!

I feel like the teas also go A LONG WAY in establishing soil fertility as well boss. This next grow im gonna blow it away lol, or have to repot a few times lol! 
I'm banking on blowing it away tho. I bumped up the humus content in the latest mix, so that I have move microbes to work it out with!

NOTE TO ALL* Copy you text before you hit reply lol..In case you lose it..


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## Sincerely420 (May 8, 2013)

*Super Starts: Healthier Transplants for Happier Harvests*



 April 2013 
 Written by Erik Biksa 
    
_Professional athletes know that the best finishes come from a strong start. Same goes for experienced croppers and their plants._
Like all races, your road to victory in the garden is about going the distance. However, just like professional athletes, experienced croppers also know that the best finishes come from a strong start. If you get hung-up coming out of the gate, you might finish the race, but it there is little or no chance of it being the best performance possible.
So, lets break it down into those important first steps. By better understanding each of these steps and, most importantly, how one lends more power to the next in the succession, you will be well-trained this season and stand an excellent chance of making this your best victory garden harvest ever (be it outdoors, in a greenhouse or even under grow lights).
Its worth noting that there are selections of commercially propagated plants available at the grocery store, your local garden center or maybe even your local hydroponics shop to start your garden. These can be convenient and easy, especially if you arent growing for a living. Be warned, though; while you can take home some great starts, you can also take home problems (for example, insects and diseases). If you cant talk to who grew your transplants, there can also be uncertainty as to whether or not they were sprayed with chemicals that could harm you or lessen the yield potential from your crop. This makes an even stronger case for growing your own, especially if you make your living from your crops and if you have a short season (meaning you can only bank on getting one crop planted and harvested). In other words, theres a lot riding on the quality of your starts.
*
Prepare for success*

Fact is, the majority of the work that needs to be done when starting new plants typically has more to do with setting up to plant rather than the act of planting itself. Farmers know the importance of creating a proper seed bed: firm, but not hard, and of finer texture that still drains freely. If you are using a medium to start cuttings or seeds, that description still fits. Commercial peat or coco-based soilless mixes work great (especially if starting from seeds) and can be used to fill cell trays that fit into a standard 10- by 20-in. propagation dome/tray set-up. There are specially made plugs available too, with rockwool being just one of the choices. Different mediums will have different pretreatment requirements in order to stabilize the pH or provide/remove nutrients. Some mixes and plugs are ready to use right out of the package. Also, make sure your medium is sterile or else rots and other problems could occur easily in the warm, moist environment created.
Inoculating your seeds and cuttings and encouraging them to be extra healthy is easy with additions of B vitamins and beneficial soil fungus (for example, mycorrhizae and trichoderma).Bacillusstrains of bacteria also promote bigger and healthier root systems that resist the bad guys, which can occur in the soil. To get the best bang for your buck, you can soak your seeds for a short period in good-quality water mixed with ¼- to 1/8-strength beneficial inoculants and B vitamins. Once your seeds are planted and have emerged, you water with this solution until they need a regular fertilizer program, which could also include some of the beneficials youre already using.
Its also a good idea to start with new trays and domes every time you propagate (be sure to recycle them after youre done). For the cost, relative to how many healthy transplants you can start in a single tray, it is worth the peace of mind. However, if you prefer, mild bleach solutions and lots of rinsing can be used to sterilize and reuse plastic materials. Ninety-nine percent pure isopropyl alcohol is also effective; just use in a well-ventilated area away from sparks or flames. Nonetheless, note that plastics can get porous; so, overtime, you could be leaving behind harmful pathogens that can quickly infect the next batch of new plants.
*
Mastering balance*

Learning what the correct moisture content is for your propagation medium can take a little practice; in fact, it can years to perfect. Newbies tend to over soak it (A.K.A killing with love), while veterans might get lazy and give a light mist once in a while to even out moisture to the different cells in the tray. However, having the right balance of oxygen-to-water around stems to root or germinating seeds is critical to having a fast and healthy trouble-free start.
With peat and coir mixes, you can learn to watch the color of the medium. As it goes from dark to light, it is losing moisture. Of course, lifting the dome and touching with a clean finger is perfectly acceptable way to test for moisture.
While were on the topic of water, using RO filtered water that has been remineralized with nutrients, vitamins, humates, etc. helps ensure that the water is free of harmful contaminants (including disease-causing organisms) while removing chlorine, which would hurt the beneficial life you introduced into your propagating medium.
*
Knowing when to push and when to breathe*

Some seeds need light to germinate, although most will pop up in dark conditions when provided with the right temperature range and moisture. However, once a tiny seedling emerges, it will need light. Its important to get this rightwith cuttings, lighting is a critical factor. The right photoperiod (duration of light to dark) and the right intensity can make all of the difference between developing a strong healthy root system in a short time frame or having the cuttings lag during rooting, making them very weak and pale by the time they are ready to plant.
When plants absorb light wavelengths, they combine this light energy with the chemical energy from air and water (CO2 for leaves, O2 for roots) and nutrients to form glucose (C6H12O6). Then, when its dark, they grow by burning the sugars they made during the light cycle.
However, temperature is king. In fact, deciding the intensity of artificial light you give your seedlings and transplants will often have more to do with temperature, as they are sealed up tight underneath a humidity dome. This is because seedlings or cuttings can get dehydrated in environments that are too warm since they cant keep up with the water demand on a non-existent or newly developing root system. As a rule of thumb, light-loving plants like fluorescent lighting kept at a distance of 6 to 12 in. and HID lighting at least a couple feet away from their tops. For cuttings, this author finds between 800 and 1,200 lumens of T5 lighting provides the best results. Two 4-ft. long tubes roots two 1,020 trays nicely. Seedlings can start with similar lighting conditions.
Maintaining steady temperature of about 80°F in the humidity dome typically gives the best balance between fast development and less risk of problems. Usually maintaining a light cycle of 18 hours on proves optimal for most varieties, however, if it gets colder with the lights out, the lights can be left on 24/7. If it gets too warm under the covered dome, youll need to move the light source further away. Keep in mind though that venting warm air away with powerful vent fans is not advisable, even with a snug fitting dome.
*When the time is right*
Once about 75% of the seedlings have emerged or cuttings are showing roots, its time for the young crop to gradually get acquainted with the outside world. If left under the dome for longer, they will stretch and grow soft and weak, thus wasting your earlier efforts to promote optimal health. Start by taking the dome off for an hour or two and then recover by letting it sit covered for a few more hours. Then uncover for longer. If no signs of wilting appear, your plants are ready to stand uncovered.
At this point, if going outdoors right away, you might want to harden your plants off by putting them outside in cooler conditions and then bringing them back in, repeating the process until they get acclimated to outdoor weather. Watch out for strong breezes or intense light, as tender young transplants can get fried quickly. Insects and animals would love to eat your seedlings, so take care here too. Keep in mind that bigger plants stand a better chance outdoors.
If you are going to keep growing indoors, which is advisable, you will want to do what savvy indoor growers do. Thats to pre-veg your plants before introducing them to more intensive growing conditions. This way the young plants experience no hiccups early on and end up producing maximized yields.
*
Pre-growth tactics*

Instead of putting plants straight outside or even indoors into more intensive full-on vegetative growing conditions, it pays to provide them with a healthy adolescence before they become young adults. This way they will be revving to go for the big race ahead, and will have bulked up enough on the top and bottom to resist troubles and grow big.
One of the best and easiest methods to accomplish this is by planting into small pots (or beer cups with drain holesbeer cups are great because they are deeper than wide so you can still fit lots of plants under one light fixture). At this point, keep fluorescent lights just off the tops of the plants (if using metal halide lighting, about 1,600 to 2,000 lumens is ideal). Also, provide a gentle breeze with a small fan. At this point, bioactivity is good, so step it up. Go light on nutes and heavier on things like vitamins, bacteria, fungi, humates, fulvates and amino acids. This will encourage strong healthy root development without making your plants stretch. Also, let them dry out a little between waterings (but dont let them wilt) now that the plants have some roots to stand on. You will have hardier, studier plants that are better able to withstand stresses. However, while your plants are growing up and able to resist a bit more, do keep a watchful eye so that you dont accidentally stress or dry out your valuable starts.
After ten to fourteen days in this pre-veg stage, your plants should be very well-established and ready to transplant into larger containers or well-prepared planting holes. However, if the leaves dont look vibrant or healthy, or you see signs of troubles from insect or diseases on them, hold off on planting. Plants are much easier to treat and handle while they are smaller, so its much easier to nip the problem in the bud (so to speak) at this stage. In other words, dont ignore a problem if you do see one! They rarely go away on their own.
*
Super start tips*



Be careful with heat mats; they can get too warm and cause rots and other problems 
 

Lift the dome off for a few minutes every day and wipe the condensation off with a clean paper towel 
 

Humates and fulvates are completely natural ingredients and promote healthier and bigger root systems 
 

Foliar spray only if you have to; standing moisture on foliage is a gateway for pathogens and is best avoided if possible 
 

Set it up right and then leave it alone; your young plants want a stable and regular environment, so do it right the first time 
 Super starts are the key to a successful crop; so, follow the advice above and youll be well on your way to a growing victory!


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## c4ulater (May 8, 2013)

Yo, so my last go I started off in Jiffy Pots. They work great for me.


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## Sincerely420 (May 8, 2013)

c4ulater said:


> Yo, so my last go I started off in Jiffy Pots. They work great for me.


Nice! i just stack three solo cups and cut holes in the bottom of the top two for draining, and leave em' there for a good 2 wks!


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## hyroot (May 8, 2013)

Viagrow tm pots from amazon are the ones I use. I like them more than smart pots. They are taller and not as wide. But aerated more and after several batches. They still hold their shape and not flimsy like smart pots. Have handles to. Very cheap. Most of my smart pots were moved outside to my veggie garden.


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## Sincerely420 (May 8, 2013)

I'll be adding this in and giving it a try, rather than adding more perlite!

Order it online and pick it up at your local Lowes.
They've got a great deal of things online that you can have shipped to your local store for free.
But here's a link for the lava rock. http://www.lowes.com/pd_2568-66882-2568_?productId=3028785
I'll probably add 10 cups of this to each batch of soil.
For those of you having a hard time finding things, I think Lowes and Home Depot are two places that you can find everything you need rather than hitting the hydro store.


Also gonna try out some compost they have there! I've still got a batch of soil to recycle! 




<-This is that compost!

But IDK....I might just buy some worms and put em' to work in that soil....I dunno...Decisions decisions...


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## c4ulater (May 8, 2013)

Boy get them worms to work what the fuck.


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## hyroot (May 8, 2013)

Sincere try Eco scraps compost at home depot. Less than $6 for.1 cu ft. Made from fruits n veggie . I love it. I use the noble worm castings at home depot. 1 cu ft $18. Better than most. If the compost is dry, wet it a little and let it sit for a day.


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## Sincerely420 (May 8, 2013)

hyroot said:


> Sincere try Eco scraps compost at home depot. Less than $6 for.1 cu ft. Made from fruits n veggie . I love it. I use the noble worm castings at home depot. 1 cu ft $18. Better than most. If the compost is dry, wet it a little and let it sit for a day.


Thx boss! I was wondering about eco-scraps! & I will def. give it a try!
And as farm as casting for now, got a local supplier, so I can get those really fresh!


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## c4ulater (May 8, 2013)

I use eco-scrap in the outside garden. Good ish. 

Yo dude. I got red wigglers out of the ass coming soon. I may just start sellin' them locally . Happy worms = worms that reproduce


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## c4ulater (May 8, 2013)

Not to mention. You don't need a ton of space bro. I started small mayne


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## hyroot (May 8, 2013)

I'm a start my own small worm farm soon. Just need to get the worms....


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## c4ulater (May 8, 2013)

hyroot said:


> I'm a start my own small worm farm soon. Just need to get the worms....


Red Wigglers and make Vermicompost - you can't go wrong. They're Florida Native Worms.


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## Sincerely420 (May 8, 2013)

I'm def. gonna get it poppin bro,just got some things to do this month, so got be patient..if I could tho, I'd start one tomorrow!
I will be composting with red wigglers here soon no doubt!
I'm heeding your advice for sure tho c4!

Might have to start flipping worms and castings too lol


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## c4ulater (May 9, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> I'm def. gonna get it poppin bro,just got some things to do this month, so got be patient..if I could tho, I'd start one tomorrow!
> I will be composting with red wigglers here soon no doubt!
> I'm heeding your advice for sure tho c4!
> 
> Might have to start flipping worms and castings too lol


Tons of local gardeners will always be happy to get compost / worms . So like 5 bucks for a can of like 20/25 worms. I only invested 5 bucks for my worms. I got like 24 , 1 dead  . But a few have died because I had a bad set-up before.


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## Sincerely420 (May 10, 2013)

So I went ahead and picked this compost up from Lowes. It looked the part and smelled the part so I'm happy with it!







I'm cutting my previous soil mix with 1gal of this compost, 1 tsp mycos and 1/2gal perlite, per 3 gals soil mix.
Reason being, I figure the diversity of compost in this soil mix will work wonders for me based on all I've learned!
So now I have a little of this compost, a little ancient forest compost, and a little mushroom compost in my mix, as well as some EWCs!
Not gonna add anything else to in in the way of mineral or nutritional amendments, just more compost and more perlite to balance that out, as it sits a little heavy at the moment.
___________________________________
*So I'm taking this mix:*
*

Growing Medium
My 100% Organic &#8220;$uperb&#8221; $oil Mix
Each 10-12 gallon batch of reclaimed, recycled, Fox Farms Ocean Forest Base soil I reconditioned w/ 



3 Gallons(48 cups) Mushroom Compost 
2 Gallons(32 cups) Ancient Forest Compost,  
2 1/2 Gallons(40 cups) Red Wiggler castings + 8cups* 
10 cups Perlite* 
1 cup Hi-Cal Lime,  
1 cup Algamin Kelp Meal 1-0-2  
½ cup Indonesian Hi-P Bat Guano .5-12-.2 
½ cup Espoma Tomato Tone 3-4-6 
½ cup Azomite 
1 cup Greensand 0-0-0.1 
3 cup Glacial Rock Dust* 
11tsp Mycorrhizae spores. 
**
And adding to it 3 gallons Nutri-Fibre compost, 1.5 gallons perlite, and 3 teaspoons mycos spores!*


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## c4ulater (May 10, 2013)

Grrrr my order is still being processed! I'm patient but DAMN I want to cook some soil man!

I may get up on your new mix seeing how I'm pretty much up to date.



--------


My ladies again , are looking good. Leaves are looking like they're in need a hit with a cal-mag solution. Is this because of my water? Or soil issue? Or could be both?


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## Sincerely420 (May 10, 2013)

Do you have hard water? And what's you current soil mix looking like bossman?! 

I'm 100% sure that this one will be a KILLER!(Not that all the other's didn't kill it lol)


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## c4ulater (May 10, 2013)

Yo okay, so whats hard water? 

Soil mix is just FFOF but it has no more life in it. So I'm using nutes for now 'till I get the new setup going.

As for watering - I'm using tap water and letting it sit w/ a bubbler .


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## Sincerely420 (May 10, 2013)

Ok, hard water is basically tap water with build up in it...

And ok ok, but could be several things boss. I can't see to tell you tho lol!
Could be the soil. And if your using on them bcuz the soil is outta life you gonna have to do so til you chop chop


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## c4ulater (May 11, 2013)

darnit. 

heres an interesting question ; 

so yeah remember how i used MG soil in 1# pots then transferred it into a 3# FFOF soil pot? Would it be a bad idea to recycle this soil as well since the MG nutes are probably done/gone? Also used MG Perlite. People say theres chems in that as well ?  I'd love to recycle it just so I can have more soil- but again this would change how much stuff I would have to amend it with. 

If I should toss it - I'll just use it for my outdoor garden.


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## Sincerely420 (May 11, 2013)

Hmmm?? You can def. give it a try and see how it comes out.
And yeahh the MG perlite has time released nutes, but since you've used it already it may be barren of eveything, and you just need to build it back up.

The most important part of amending that mix will be making sure you replenish the humus source(Compost and EWCs).
I'd "flush" the soil before I amended it as well bossman 

And good morning sir! Bright and early is how it's done!


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## hyroot (May 11, 2013)

https://www.rollitup.org/organics/636057-recycled-organic-living-soil-rols.html


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## whodatnation (May 11, 2013)

Just learned that FF is owned by Monsanto  
#boycott


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## c4ulater (May 11, 2013)

I hear ya.. I'll just keep my current soil out to the outside garden. I'll add compost + EWC to it. So check it out.. My ladies got a little lop sided today and I completely forgot a cool "organic"-like thing to do.

I have a bunch of wild 'standing' bamboo in my yard so I cut it down - cleaned it and am using it now. Though I have to be careful for bringing in mites, but I got that covered any how.


Home made things I've done so far : 

Cal-Mag
Bamboo Sticks
EWC/Compost


Shits looking good bro. 
Seriously thanks to you man! 

BTW I know it's late but good morning to ya / evening! I just got back home.


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## hyroot (May 11, 2013)

Fox farm was bought out a year or so ago. They change the recipe for ocean forest for the worst and now its one of the shittiest soils out there.


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## Sincerely420 (May 11, 2013)

whodatnation said:


> Just learned that FF is owned by Monsanto
> #boycott


Wait until everything REALLY goes legal bro.
The smart ppl are positioning themselves right now lol.
Hope everything doesn't go to hell with it!


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## Sincerely420 (May 11, 2013)

c4ulater said:


> I hear ya.. I'll just keep my current soil out to the outside garden. I'll add compost + EWC to it. So check it out.. My ladies got a little lop sided today and I completely forgot a cool "organic"-like thing to do.
> 
> I have a bunch of wild 'standing' bamboo in my yard so I cut it down - cleaned it and am using it now. Though I have to be careful for bringing in mites, but I got that covered any how.
> 
> ...


Congrats on the success boss! Smoke to that why don't we 
I'm about to get those worms popping! And I'm EXTRA proud of this latest soil mix boss! It's got it all lol, and it smell like straight *EARTH!*
About to gear up and have at it again boss!


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## Sincerely420 (May 11, 2013)

hyroot said:


> Fox farm was bought out a year or so ago. They change the recipe for ocean forest for the worst and now its one of the shittiest soils out there.


I don't care who owns what or any of that..That's all WAY outta my hands boss. 
I can say tho, that everything I've done has been in an FFOF base & I can't complain bro.
Not in the slightest  

And I see ppl doing their thing in Miracle Gro, so I've learned to not get on that band wagon of saying something's bad just because ppl say so..
I use to tho. But not anymore.


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## hyroot (May 11, 2013)

Try roots organic or pro mix or make your own mix from scratch. You will see a huge difference. I used to use ffof then tried Dr earth (the worst). Empire soil. Black gold. Roots. Then now I use pro mix bh for my base. $30 for 4cu ft at lowes. All the others were bad. Except for roots. I also do rols. Now I wont have go buy soil again or until I buy more pots.


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## Sincerely420 (May 11, 2013)

Yeah I feel you. But the plan is to stick to one thing and get better with it, rather than bouncing around.

I started with Fox Farms Ocean Forest and just kept working with it to build on how I was amending it.
Since I started tho, I've only bought different types of compost and worm castings.
The base mix that I have now is all reclaimed, re-amended Fox Farms Ocean Forest.

I've got 5 full 18 gallon totes of my soil mix tho. I've bought maybe 3 or 4 bags and won't be buying anymore soil either.
And I scoped the no till thread out for a while bcuz there's* A LOT* of good info there, and that guy Heedtreep grows *FIRE*, but I don't grow that way, so it doesn't really work for me.
I finish everything in 3 gallons. I don't top dress uproot and plant something in the same place, I use teas for that. That's the main difference.

I.e When I harvest a plant I break the root ball up, get the biggest roots out, break it down back to soil and wait until I have a bin full of old soil, and re-amend it. Once I re-amend it, I give it a tea, let it sit for a month and use it again.
So like you, I haven't bought anymore soil, and won't buy anymore, just in a different way.

Gotta get that worm farm rocking tho!
We're growing aloe a well, so I'll be able to treat this upcoming crop with that as well!
I will be SURE to continue to share my results tho.
If things go down hill, I'll blame it on Monsato lol


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## hyroot (May 11, 2013)

The no till really works. . I just emptied a pot for transplanting 24 Romain lettuce into individual pots. The 7 gal was from my last batch. I topdressed one with ecoscraps and ewc. Watered with molasses water once. Then planted seeds. The twice with water. I guess enough enzymes formed from Compost and ewc with molasses. So a about 2 weeks from when I chopped down cheese kush I had in there. But after pulling out all the soil out of that pot for the lettuce and brocolli. All the roots from before were gone. I'm actually blown away that it worked that fast. The girls almost 3 weeks into flower are the first rols. They are the fullest and most lush ever. Buds at this point is the largest they have been. They grew so much faster in veg too. I used to break down the soil and remove roots and mix so much recycled soil with new soil and amend and cook. That would take hours. Now it takes minutes. I'm watering like you plus the top dress. Compost tea every other watering. Then just water. But no more cooking soil. Its all about constantly having beneficial bacteria and fungi .

Ill put up Pics later. I still gotta take Pics of the t5 ones to put on altars thread. I keep falling asleep early.


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## Sincerely420 (May 11, 2013)

Yeahhh i feel you bro. 

It's obvious that the no-till method works lol, it's just not what I do.
What works for you work for you. What works for me, works for me ya dig?!
It's a to each his own type thing at this point..

Only reason I don't post in that thread is because I don't grow that way lol.
But I def. check it out from time to time.
I know it's there lol and thanks for sharing the link lol, it's just not what I do.
I'm all for sharing the knowledge and spreading it around bro, just keep in mind that everyone has their "thing" lol.
There are a 100 different ways to get to the same end result. Mine and yours are just two of the many!
Luckily I found my niche my first run, so rather than changing it all up, I'll keep it constant and build on what I've started with bro.

Also doesn't take me hours to beat a root ball back to just a pile of soil and a mess of roots... It takes me minutes bro.
Its all in how you do the things you do!

But you're doing your thing apparently, so I wouldn't suggest you change your ways you know?!
Like I'm doing my thing ATM, so I'm only gonna build on that and dial it in even more boss. Not change it.
I've had very good results so far, so why would I?
No matter who owns what lol. You gotta do what works best for you bro


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## Shwagbag (May 11, 2013)

hyroot said:


> Try roots organic or pro mix or make your own mix from scratch. You will see a huge difference. I used to use ffof then tried Dr earth (the worst). Empire soil. Black gold. Roots. Then now I use pro mix bh for my base. $30 for 4cu ft at lowes. All the others were bad. Except for roots. I also do rols. Now I wont have go buy soil again or until I buy more pots.


No go on the Dr. Earth eh? I use a shit ton of their organic nutrients. I'm vegging a few in their POTting soil and they seem to like it. Pro Mix BX is my favorite base for sure tho. I think my next mix will just use pro-mix as the base and then I'll just go crazy with that. 

I should have some ladies going into my latest mix in the next week or so. I really wanted to try the ecoscraps products but my local home depot doesn't stock them and shipping was a bit unreasonable for the amount I want to order. Kinda pisses me off really. They have thousands of cubic feet taken up by 8 different miracle grow soils but they can't dedicate a couple hundred to a product like ecoscraps. Bleh. 


I hope everyone is having a good weekend!


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## hyroot (May 11, 2013)

When i would take hours breaking down soil it was 10 7 gals at a time. Cool cool. I'm not pushing it. I'm just saying what has happened. Thats all.




Shwagbag said:


> No go on the Dr. Earth eh? I use a shit ton of their organic nutrients. I'm vegging a few in their POTting soil and they seem to like it. Pro Mix BX is my favorite base for sure tho. I think my next mix will just use pro-mix as the base and then I'll just go crazy with that.
> 
> I should have some ladies going into my latest mix in the next week or so. I really wanted to try the ecoscraps products but my local home depot doesn't stock them and shipping was a bit unreasonable for the amount I want to order. Kinda pisses me off really. They have thousands of cubic feet taken up by 8 different miracle grow soils but they can't dedicate a couple hundred to a product like ecoscraps. Bleh.
> 
> ...


Dr. Earth only makes 2 good things their kelp and fish bone meal. Ecoscraps is only sold in 2 counties in socal. You should be able to have it shipped to the store at no shipping cost.


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## Sincerely420 (May 11, 2013)

It's all good homie! And damn man, those had to be some BEASTY ass bushes huh?! 
If you beat the hell out of the root balls, they'll fall apart without a problem! 
It's a descent workout too lol!

But no prob at all tho bro, I appreciate you sharing for sure. I probably like just about everything in the ROLS thread, just don't pertain to me atm.
I'm about to start a new thread for this run here in a bit tho, so you can see what I mean. 

This one is just my hoarding of all things that I've found pertaining to growing organic that thought was worth sharing! That's all.
In a year or so I hope that there's nothing you can ask me about organic growing that I don't know.
I'm getting there and working hard towards that goal bro 

My understanding of everything to this point has me right where I am!


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## Sincerely420 (May 11, 2013)

Shwagbag said:


> No go on the Dr. Earth eh? I use a shit ton of their organic nutrients. I'm vegging a few in their POTting soil and they seem to like it. Pro Mix BX is my favorite base for sure tho. I think my next mix will just use pro-mix as the base and then I'll just go crazy with that.
> 
> I should have some ladies going into my latest mix in the next week or so. I really wanted to try the ecoscraps products but my local home depot doesn't stock them and shipping was a bit unreasonable for the amount I want to order. Kinda pisses me off really. They have thousands of cubic feet taken up by 8 different miracle grow soils but they can't dedicate a couple hundred to a product like ecoscraps. Bleh.
> 
> ...


It's all in how you use things and apply yourself to them man! I can't vouch for anything being terrible at this point.
I'm still on the same batch of amendments that I purchased 8 months ago, and the only thing I'll need to get more of for my next run is bat guano.
And that's after mixing 5 to 6 batches of 15-18gals of soil, and using them in teas too.

But the reason I chose FFOF as a base is because it's diverse as hell in regards to the contents within. At this point tho, all my based soil is my soil mix.
I didn't buy any new soil to mix this last batch tho, so technically, the soil mix I'm using at this point is my own.
And I would have tried the ecoscraps too, but Lowes is like right next door to me so I went with it.
That compost that I got from there def. looked the part and smelled the part bro, and at $6 for a cu ft. You can't complain lol
And Miracle Gro is everywhere you not lol!


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## hyroot (May 11, 2013)

Ive been growing for over 10 years and I'm still learning. Did hydro for most of that time. Only been doing soil for 3 years. There's always new knowledge. I bake out on university studies all the time. But I'm the guy who is always experimenting. Sometimes its a few steps back. I can say I will always be doing organics and never do hydro ever again.


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## Shwagbag (May 11, 2013)

hyroot said:


> When i would take hours breaking down soil it was 10 7 gals at a time. Cool cool. I'm not pushing it. I'm just saying what has happened. Thats all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Its one of the products they don't offer free shipping to store for  I have to purchase manu direct. 

I've been very happy with all my Dr. Earth products. I've used probably close to a dozen as well as their organic fertilizer mixes. The bud & bloom mix makes a lovely tea ingredient and the Life makes a great top dressing for vegging plants in promix. To each their own, we all have different needs I suppose 

"Jesus Christ I said across her nose not up it!" - Lord Helmet

"Sorry sir, doing the best I can sir!" - Major Asshole, First Class


----------



## Sincerely420 (May 11, 2013)

hyroot said:


> Ive been growing for over 10 years and I'm still learning. Did hydro for most of that time. Only been doing soil for 3 years. There's always new knowledge. I bake out on university studies all the time. But I'm the guy who is always experimenting. Sometimes its a few steps back. I can say I will always be doing organics and never do hydro ever again.


We have a lot in common bro. I make moves tho. No steps backwards. Only forward bro. 
I don't make the same mistakes twice and I change things one at a time, so that I can isolate the variables in the things I do. 
That's the only reason that once I started buying FFOF, I kept buying FFOF. Now I'm buying nada lol. It's my own soil mix.

But you're right bro, there will be things for us to learn until the last time we wake up


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## Jimdamick (May 11, 2013)

hyroot said:


> Ive been growing for over 10 years and I'm still learning. Did hydro for most of that time. Only been doing soil for 3 years. There's always new knowledge. I bake out on university studies all the time. But I'm the guy who is always experimenting. Sometimes its a few steps back. I can say I will always be doing organics and never do hydro ever again.


If you dont mind me asking hyroot, why did you go to soil from hydro?


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## hyroot (May 11, 2013)

Jimdamick said:


> If you dont mind me asking hyroot, why did you go to soil from hydro?


I hate resi changes more than x girlfriend drama. Originally it was because of noise. I shared a wall with my land lord. The quality of soil buds far surpassed hydro and were much denser. I was sold after that. Growing soil is cheaper. Less work and more forgiving. No ph to check. I can leave for 5 days with out a problem. With hydro there was always something. Leaks. Tubes clogging. Pumps breaking down. Scrubbing kits. 

The only benefit of hydro Imo is faster veg time. I did aero and fill and drain x film. Built all my kits.

Its kind of like using hps then trying par t5, led and cmh and realizing how shitty and wasteful hps is.


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## c4ulater (May 12, 2013)

Fantastic reading for me to catch up on. 

As an outsider and a non-experienced/new grower I still like FFOF. Like Sin said. What works for you works for you whatever, whatever . My personal experience with FFOF is that I started of with MG Organic and plants had nothing but problems. When I put them into FFOF they were happy. Again - this was a straight soil set-up. Not really ideal but it was what I had to work with at the time.

I love reading both sides to the story of one product to the other. Always good knowledge - even if I'm still sticking with FFOF!

----

Sin,

I mean if it really comes down to it - it DOESN'T really matter what soil you get once the nutes / soil run out of life. When you "re-amend" it - at that point it's your own soup, right? So in the end, it doesn't matter really. Am I wrong? 

Too - What are you using Aloe for? I don't get that.

Good morning to you bro & fellow thread goonz.

 C4


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## Sincerely420 (May 12, 2013)

*"I mean if it really comes down to it - it DOESN'T really matter what soil you get once the nutes / soil run out of life. When you "re-amend" it - at that point it's your own soup, right? So in the end, it doesn't matter really. Am I wrong? *"

HELL NO your not wrong lol, your right on boss! FFOF worked WONDERS for me the first two grows and that was using it after amending it right outta the bag.
Nowadays tho, I'm not using FFOF lol. I'm using my own soil. After one run, it'll be that way for you too boss.
And I did a few things with this mix for a reason, like beefed of the percentage of humus in the soil so that I can push my girls a little further with the teas!

But this thread is featuring Fox Farm Ocean Forest because it's what I started out with!
Not bcuz I work for them or something..I just kept working with it to hone in on a better recipe, which I've done.
But i just never been into the this is bad and that's bad game lol.
I can't even hate on Miracle Gro, bcuz Ive seen guys do #WORK in it bro!
It's all on the grower and what he can do!

And for aloe, I went and bought a few plants! They're $1 a piece locally lol! Check your local Craigslist fam! If they don't have them, check you local nurseries or plant stores. I got a BIG one from the nursery for $4.99.
And I'm gonna use the aloe on the leaves, the same way I would use it on my skin pretty much boss. It's FULL of vitamins and nutrients man! *FULL OF EM!*
And this stuff has just as many medicinal uses as cannabis lol. You use it for EVERYTHING! It's good for cloning as well! Just gotta harvest that magic gel they're filled with!
Also gotta get some barely seeds, and some comfrey leaf bro. 
Gonna up my game with the foliar sprays this time around as well. 

And good morning homie and master growers and master growers in the making!!! 
It's about that time to bake up lol!


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## c4ulater (May 12, 2013)

You literally rub the aloe on the plant it self? I have a bunch of that stuff in my garden grows like wild fire if you let it. 

Word. I may buy another bag of ffof and cook two batches of soil.

When I make this soil should I water it with just the tea recipe??


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## Sincerely420 (May 12, 2013)

I'll post some info that I've found recently on it for ya in a bit boss.
But you can use it several different ways. You can use it in the AACT or you can use it as a foliar spray. I plan on doing both.
It's also good for cloning and for wetting you clone soil with! Lots of shit bro.
I'll drop some knowledge for ya in a bit tho.

And cool on the mixing the couple more batches.
After you mix it up, wet it down with an AACT for sure.
You don't have to, but it's jumpstart and speed of the process, and your pouring more microbes over the soil, to process the nutrients that you put in it, and that are already in it boss.
So mix you're soil and then start it cooking with an AACT for sure.
My soil smell likes mother nature herself bro! That's the smell you should be looking for after maybe 2-3wk. Once you get that smell, you ready to pot up boss.


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## c4ulater (May 12, 2013)

Thanks boss. 

I want to maybe make two or three batches of ffof. So I can have more plants going . Scored 80 seeds. Mmmmmmmm


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## Sincerely420 (May 12, 2013)

NICE! But I've been looking for a while bro, to not much avail.
I think it's gonna be a trial and error type things to see how it works.
I've seen a tbsp per gallon and 1.5 cups per gallon.

So I'll start with a tbsp per gallon and we'll see what we see from there boss.
Most the stuff I've been able to find involves diluting and aloe juice and using that rather than the fresh aloe leaf.
We'll get it right within the first couple weeks tho.
One things for certain tho, is that it works for the plants leaves just like it works for our skin and it SUPER nutritional bro.

And 80 seeds! DAYUMMMM MAN! I bet you feeling like a NEW man lol! I know I would be!
I'm about to be rocking and rolling again here REAL soon boss. 10 new stains, *ALL FIRE!*


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## c4ulater (May 12, 2013)

FIRE GROWER , FIRE COLAZ! 

Got good headphones? Jam out brotha
[video=youtube;PN2xAyhzaNQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN2xAyhzaNQ[/video]


Tru, I'll let you know how my shit comes through. Yeah dude - I just landed a new source with fem seeds. Has the technique down - I want to LEARNNNN. 

Yeah these seeds are a mix of Lemon Haze , Cali , White Widow , and a few other shit. Hawaiian or something? Idk all I know is I need to get another lamp if I want to UPGRADE. Cus I'm guessing I can get about 9 plants with this 600w lamp. MMmmmm Nom nommm


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## Sincerely420 (May 12, 2013)

#ElevationMusic!

And hell yeah about them seeds boss. 
I'm about to breed and get my own if I get a damn male! Got the 3 chances this round to get one.
The GDP, Ace of Spades, and Bay 11 
Track is still ridin too lol


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## c4ulater (May 12, 2013)

Damn.

Yo I was wondering why I wasn't getting any males with these seeds. It was from my connect. I was super pissed to get no more seedz. DAMNNMMMM

I may give my source all my male if my "reg" seeds turn out to be males. (PRAYING TO THE WEEDL0RD)


---

I was out night last night with my boys, and some of them are master cooks. Too bad we don't know each other in the real world.


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## Sincerely420 (May 12, 2013)

Yeah bro. Seeds you find in loud are 9/10 times gonna be female bro.
When you're breeding for seeds tho, it's a different beast, so you can end up with some of both.

& my network reaches as far as Australia bro.
There's no telling where I might be tomorrow. Just keep up w/ me boss.
Tomorrow is looking good as always 

Just trying to keep it like that and capitalize on it


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## c4ulater (May 12, 2013)

God like man. 

I didn't know that about seeds. Hmm. Just got to keep hoping for a male. Go figure why I always see people going crazy over a male. For a male plant - can you keep them alive for a long long time?


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## Sincerely420 (May 12, 2013)

Nothin special about them really bro. Just that they spew pollen. You can use them to knock a female plant up, or just harvest their pollen and pollinate a few buds per plant, for a few seeds from that bud.


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## c4ulater (May 12, 2013)

Ah true - forgot about reading up on that.

Soon enough I'll be having a veg. room.. I can't wait for that!! No more DOWNTIME! 

I'm not sure what size t5 to get for my veg setup. I'm only going to veg maybe 4 to 8 at a time...

I was looking at the Sun Blaze t5 22 or 24. But I'm not sure if that will even be enough.

edit ; I wouldn't even mind only having one or two vegging at a time.

edit again : 

Put more thought into this.. I could just use my current space - ditch the tent and cut the grow room in half. Speaking vertically in half not side to side half. I can still run the same ducting system just need to find a proper size t5 set up and a good way to seal off any light seepage.


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## Sincerely420 (May 13, 2013)

If you have the ability to cool that room adequately bro, I'd jump up to HPS asap.
You can veg for sure with T5 and flower with them too, its just that personally, I noticed a BIG difference in bud size when I upped to flowering with HPS.
They do get warm tho bro, so make you're you get air cooled reflectors to cool everything easier. T5s and CFLs will get the job done tho. Just not as fast and might not grow as chunky buds


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## Sincerely420 (May 13, 2013)

*SOIL SCIENTIST* 
To understand why management practices make a difference to soil life, it helps to back up and examine the vast diversity of micro- and macro-organisms living in the soil and the critical roles they play in agriculture. 
*What Lives in Your Soil?* 
The soil ecosystem is tremendously varied - more-so than many above-ground plant and animal food webs. Each species has slightly different requirements. Aerobic microbes require oxygen. Anaerobes require the absence of oxygen. Some prefer either a high or a low pH, or high or low moisture. Many organisms can digest simple sugars, while only a few species have the enzymes to digest lignin, a major component of woody tissue. 
At the microscopic level, soil conditions can change drastically from one point to the next, so a variety of organisms may be present in a single soil sample. Aerobes may live near anaerobes. Organisms requiring high pH may live near those preferring low pH. 
Microbes differ greatly in how they get their energy. Most soil organisms are heterotrophs that get their energy and carbon from breaking down organic compounds. In contrast, the autotrophs use inorganic carbon (carbon dioxide). There are two groups of autotrophs. Phototrophs, such as plants and a few soil organisms, get their energy from light. Chemotrophs are a small, but important, group of soil bacteria that get their energy from oxidizing inorganic compounds including ammonium, nitrite, and sulfur compounds. 
Macro-organisms, such as mites, beetles, and earthworms, are also tremendously varied in what they eat, their life cycle, and what agricultural conditions they will or will not tolerate. Each plays a different role in eating and breaking down plant residue and their fellow soil organisms. 
*What Do Soil Organisms Do?* 
Healthy soil is a jungle of rapacious organisms devouring everything in sight (including each other), processing their prey or food through their innards, and then excreting it. The value of these creatures to farmers lies in:


Cycling nutrients. 
Enhancing soil structure, which improves water and air movement. 
Controlling disease and enhancing plant growth. 
 Nutrient cycling 
One of the important functions of the soil biological community is managing nutrients. Soil organisms continually transform nutrients among many organic and inorganic forms. (Organic compounds contain carbon. Inorganic compounds do not.) Plants primarily need simple inorganic forms of each nutrient. Soil organisms create many of these plant-available nutrients and help store nutrients in the soil as organic compounds. 
*Decomposition* is the breakdown of plant and animal residue into different organic and inorganic compounds. Soil organisms decompose organic matter more quickly under warm, moist conditions than under cold or dry conditions. This is why it is easier to build up soil organic matter levels in the Midwest than in the southeastern part of the United States, where decomposition is rapid. 
As part of the decomposition process, many bacteria and fungi produce humic acids. In the soil, these acids chemically combine with each other to form large molecules of stabilized organic matter. This formation of large molecules is both a biological and chemical process. 
When soil organisms convert organic matter into inorganic, plant-available nutrients, they are said to be mineralizing nutrients. Protozoa and nematodes *mineralize* and excrete several hundred pounds of ammonium (NH[SUB]4[/SUB]+) per acre per day. Most is snatched up by other soil organisms, but some is used by plants. 
The reverse of mineralization is *immobilization* - the conversion of inorganic compounds into organic compounds. Soil organisms consume inorganic molecules and incorporate them into their cells. Because immobilized nutrients are parts of soil organisms, they do not move easily through the soil and are unavailable to plants. Bacteria and fungi are responsible for large amounts of immobilization. 
The previous paragraphs described three kinds of transformations performed by many soil organisms:


*decomposition*: turning organic compounds into other organic compounds 
*mineralization*: turning organic matter into inorganic compounds that may be used by plants 
*immobilization*: turning inorganic compounds into organic compounds. Farmers depend on bacteria for one more transformation: 
*mineral transformation*: turning inorganic matter into other inorganic compounds 
 Bacteria that perform mineral transformations are important in nitrogen cycling. The roots of legumes host nitrogen-fixing bacteria that convert large amounts of dinitrogen (N2) from the atmosphere into forms that plants can use. Some nitrogen-fixing bacteria live free in the soil. 
_Nitrifying bacteria_ convert ammonia (NH3) into nitrate (NO3+). Plants prefer nitrate, but nitrate is easily leached from the soil. Some farmers apply "nitrification inhibitors" which reduce the activity of nitrifying bacteria and prevent the loss of fertilizer nitrogen from the soil. 
_Denitrifying_ bacteria convert nitrate into gases that are lost into the atmosphere. These species are anaerobic so denitrification occurs only in places in the soil where there is little or no oxygen. Anaerobic conditions are more common in compacted soils and in no-till soils. 
Other soil bacteria are important for similar mineral transformations of sulfur, iron, and manganese. 
Forming soil structure 
Most crops grow best in crumbly soil that roots can easily grow through and that allows in water and air. Soil organisms play an important role in the formation of a good soil structure. 
As spring turns to summer and the soil heats up, fungi grow long filaments called hyphae that surround soil particles and hold them together in soil aggregates. Some bacteria produce sticky substances that also help bind soil together. 
Many soil aggregates between the diameters of 1/1000 and 1/10 of an inch (the size of the period at the end of this sentence) are fecal pellets. Arthropods and earthworms consume soil, digest the bacteria, and excrete a clump of soil coated with secretions from the gut. As beetles and earthworms chew and bury plant residue and burrow through the soil, they aerate the soil and create nutrient-lined channels for roots and water to move through. 
Controlling disease and enhancing growth 
Soil organisms have many methods for controlling disease-causing organisms. Protozoa, nematodes, insects, and other predatory organisms help control the population levels of their prey and prevent any single species from becoming dominant. Some bacteria and fungi generate compounds that are toxic to other organisms. Some organisms compete with harmful organisms for food or a location on a root. 
In addition to protecting plants from disease, some organisms produce compounds that actually enhance the growth of plants. Plant roots may excrete compounds that attract such beneficial organisms. 
*How Do Soil Organisms and Plants Get Along?* 
The lives of plants and soil organisms are closely intertwined. Some plant and microbe species have developed symbioses, or mutually beneficial relationships. Rhizobium and other bacteria can invade roots and get sugars from the plant. In return, they fix atmospheric nitrogen into a form that plants can use. 

Another group of friendly root-invaders are the *mycorrhizal fungi*. The fungal hyphae extend from inside the root, out into the soil, and often greatly expand the plants access to nutrients and (perhaps) water. Mycorrhizae improve phosphorus nutrition by producing acids that convert phosphorus into plant-available forms and transport the phosphorus back to the root. Most crop species depend on or benefit greatly from mycorrhizal associations. 
Not all plant/microbe interactions are invasions. The *rhizosphere* (the narrow region surrounding each root) is rich in biological activity as bacteria and other microbes feed on the carbon compounds exuded by roots. Plants may exude compounds that attract certain species to the rhizosphere that protect the roots from disease-causing species. 
When microbes and plants compete for soil nutrients, microbes have an advantage because they are often suspended in the soil solution while plants must pull the soil solution towards their roots. 
In an ideal situation, microbes will tie-up (immobilize) nitrogen and prevent its loss from the rooting zone when plants are not growing, and then will release (mineralize) nitrogen when crops are actively growing. See Organic Matter Management (BU-7402 in this series) for more information about competition between microbes and plants for nitrogen. 
*When Do Soil Organisms Do Their Work?* 
The activity of organisms is constantly changing with temperature, moisture, pH, food supply, and other environmental conditions. Different species prefer different conditions, so even at maximum total activity levels only a minority of soil microbes are busily eating and respiring. The highest total activity is in late spring/early summer and in late summer/early fall when the soil is warm and moist. In early spring, some farmers see nutrient deficiency symptoms in their plants because not enough microbes are warm enough to convert organic compounds into plant-available nutrients. Leaching of excess nitrate often happens in early spring when the soil is too cool for either plants or microbes to grow and immobilize the nitrogen. 
*What Lives in the Soil and What Are They Doing?* 
Each type of organism fills a unique niche and plays a different role in the cycling of nutrients, the structure of soil, and in pest dynamics. 

*Description**Size**Diet**Typical amt in ag soils**Action in soil**Bacteria*
Usually one-celled1 um (0.001 mm)Organic matter, especially simple carbon compounds100 mil. to 1 bil. in a teaspoonDecompose organic matter. Immobilize nutrients in the rooting zone. 
Rhizobium and other genera fix nitrogen from air. 
Convert ammonium to nitrate, and nitrate to nitrogen gasses. 
Actinomycetes, which grow as filaments, are important in decomposition at moderate-to-high pH. 
Create substances that help bind soil aggregates.*Fungi*
Grow in long filaments calleed hyphaeA few um wie, yards or miles longOrganic matter, especially simple carbon compounds. Also, living plantsSeveral yards in a teaspoonDecompose organic matter. 
Immobilize nutrients in the rooting zone. 
Mycorrhizal fungi form mutually beneficial associa- tions with roots. They release acids that help make phosphorus more available to plants. 
Help stabilize soil aggregates.*Protozoa*
One-celled animals5-500 umBacteria, primarilySeveral thousand in a teaspoonStimulate and control growth of bacteria. 
Release ammonium.*Nematodes*
Roundworms. Not segmented as are earthworms50 um wide, 1 mm longBacteria, fungi, protozoa, other nematodes, and rootsTen to twenty in a teaspoonControl many disease-causing organisms. 
Root-feeders may cause root diseases. 
Release ammonium.*Arthropods*
Include insects, mites, spiders, springtails, & millipedesMicroscopic to inchesAll other organismsSeveral hundred in a cubic footShred plant residue, making it more accessible to bacteria and fungi. 
Enhance soil structure by creating fecal pellets, and by burrowing. 
Control populations of other organisms.*Earthworms*Inch or more longBacteria, fungi, and organic matterFive to thirty in a cubic footShred plant residue. 
Enhance soil structure by burrowing, mixing, and creating fecal pellets. 
Transport and stimulate growth of bacteria.
 *Why is Diversity Important?* 
Like the above-ground ecosystem, the soil community is not just a collection of individual species, but a complex, interacting food web. Decomposition of a single compound may require several organisms. The creation of aggregates involves a mix of physical and chemical processes and the activity of many types of organisms. 
As the complexity of the food web increases, productivity of the soil tends to increase. It is not clear how much complexity is needed, but there are several reasons why complexity is thought to be beneficial. 
First, the soil system may be more stable and resilient. If many organisms perform a similar role, the system is not dependent on just a few for that function. A soil disturbance (such as drought or tillage) might reduce the activity of some organisms, but in a complex system others will perform the same functions (such as providing ammonium or degrading a particular compound). 
Other benefits of complexity may include improved nutrient cycling, decomposition, and disease control. When many different kinds of organisms are present, many organic compounds and potential pollutants can be degraded, and many competitors and predators are present to control pest populations. 


 *Nematodes: Good Guys or Bad Guys?* Nematodes are a group of tiny roundworms that demonstrate the wide diversity and the inextricable food web that exists in a healthy soil. Twenty thousand species have been described, but half a million species may exist. Most soil nematodes eat bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and other nematodes, making them important in nutrient cycling. Others are plant parasites and cause disease symptoms such as malformed or dwarfed plants, or root structures with deformities such as galls and cysts. 
The root knot nematode, for instance, stimulates parasitized plants to form root galls. The galls choke off the flow of water and nutrients to the above-ground portion of the plant. Plants infected by root gall nematodes may live through the season but crop yields will be dramatically reduced. 
One way to respond to nematode problems is to rotate crops to remove the nematodes food source. Another highly effective approach is to build up soil organic matter. The increased organic matter might initially increase nematode populations, but it will also create an explosion of nematode predators such as fungi, mites, and other nematodes. 
Fungi prey on nematodes in a number of ways. They trap them with their sticky appendages or squeeze them (like a boa constrictor) in fungal mechanical ring traps. Some fungi exude a toxin to quiet their struggling prey. (Think of these vicious dramas next time you are riding safely in your tractor cab!) 
Some nematodes eat undesirable residents of farm fields. Cut worms, for instance, are hunted down by one species of carnivorous nematode. These nematodes (N. carpocapsae) are available from some biological supply catalogues to control cut worms and other crop-damaging underground caterpillars and beetle larva. 
Nematodes are not simply pests, but a diverse group of species that play many roles in the soil system.


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## Sincerely420 (May 13, 2013)

*About Tru Organics*

At Paradigm we believe in a higher standard of quality than that which is currently available by most medical cannabis providers. For too long the medical cannabis community has suffered from the commercialization and profiteering by providers and caregivers at the expense of quality of medicine, and long term health of their patients and members. Paradigm is about quality you can see, taste, and feel. 

The Paradigm menu features only 100% Tru Organic options. From our hand selected strains to our concentrates and pre-rolled items; everything is derived and grown using Tru Organics. This means reliable and consistent quality free from mass produced, chemically based hydroponics concerned more with turnover and slick marketing ideas (Charlie Sheen OG Kush, anyone?) than stable genetics and the health of the patient. 

Medical Cannabis grown with Tru Organics exhibits the true genetic traits of a given strain or plant. By allowing nature and not chemically based additives to stimulate and foster growth, plants are able to express their individual genetic qualities at the highest level. This means brighter, healthier flowers that are clean tasting, and clean burning (white ash)- lowering the overall impact on a patient while providing relief. 

This process of Tru Organics is based on the principals and teachings of the Soil Food Web. The Soil Food Web is a process that has fueled evolution in plants and organisms for thousands of years. It is a natural system with its own intelligent design that encourages growth and evolution while coupled with sustainability. It is a process that cannot be duplicated by hydroponics or basic "potting soil in a container" methods. It is a process and application that takes time and concern but one that ultimately ensures a higher standard of quality for generations. 

Healthy soil is teaming with life- microscopic organisms like bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and nematodes. A teaspoon of good garden soil contains over a billion invisible bacteria, fungal hyphae, protozoa, and nematodes all searching for energy to survive- a common denominator amongst all soil life. With the exception of some bacteria known as Chemosynthesizers, which derive energy from sulfur or nitrogen compounds, the rest have to consume something containing carbon in order to receive the energy they need to sustain life. Carbon can come in the forms of organic material supplied from plants, waste produced by other organisms, or the bodies of other organisms. All soil life must find and consume carbon to fuel their metabolism. 







This food chain is the basis of the Soil Food Web. However, most organisms eat more than one kind of prey, so in terms of diagramming who eats whom in the soil, you have not just one food chain, but a series of chains, linked and cross-linked to each other. This simple definition represents the highly complex and organized set of interactions and chemical/ physical processes that take place 24 hours a day, 7 days a week in healthy soil. 

Despite this commotion of life and activity it is ultimately the plant who is in control. Most people tend to think of a plant as only taking up nutrients through the root system and in turn feeding the leaves and fostering new growth. What few know is that a significant portion of the energy caused by photosynthesis is used by the plant to secrete a chemical through their roots called exudates. Made up of proteins and carbohydrates this process awakens and attracts specific beneficial bacteria and fungi which survive off the exudates and cellular material found around the root tips. All this activity takes place in the rhizosphere, the zone immediately around the roots and extending out roughly just 1/10th of an inch. It is a veritable hub of "life" all competing for the exudates, and/ or water and mineral content found in the rhizosphere. 

At the bottom of the Soil Food Web are bacteria and fungi, which are attracted to and feed on exudates. In turn they attract and are eaten by larger organisms- i.e. nematodes and protozoa, that consume bacteria and fungi to fuel their metabolisms. Anything not used is excreted as waste and readily absorbed by the roots as nutrients. This all takes place in the rhizosphere- the site of root nutrient absorption. 

At the heart of the Soil Food Web is the plants. Plants control the Soil Food Web for their benefit. Extensive research has shown that plants can control and specifically attract different kinds of fungi and bacteria by the exduates they produce. Different exudates are secreted depending on the current cycle of the growing season and the nutrients required by the plant. Soil fungi and bacteria are like small bags of fertilizer, retaining in their bodies nitrogen and other nutrients they consume from root exudates and other organic material. In relation, nematodes and protozoa act as "fertilizer spreaders" by releasing the nutrients locked up in bacteria and fungi. These nematodes and protozoa accomplish this task by consuming the bacteria and fungi in the rhizosphere. They digest what is needed and excrete the excess carbon and nutrients as waste. 







This is the system that has sustained plants since they evolved, their survival depends on this vital interplay of microorganisms. Soil life provides the nutrients required for plant life. Without this system the most important nutrients would drain from the soil, rather than preserved in the bodies of soil life. 

When you apply chemical based fertilizers, trace amounts hit the rhizosphere where it is absorbed; but most continues to drain through the soil creating a loss of nutrients you just paid good money for. In addition, chemical based additives kill or chase off important members of the Soil Food Web and dramatically change the soil environment. Important fungal and bacterial relationships don't form when a plant can get free nutrients. When plants are chemically fed, they cease to rely on the microbial interactions to absorb nutrients and microbial populations suffer accordingly. This in turn requires even more chemical nutrients- because the very foundation of the Soil Food Web has been changed. 

When the Soil Food Web breaks down, plants become more reliant not only on chemical fertilizers for nutrients but chemical solutions for disease and pest problems. A breakdown in this balance of microorganisms causes soil to deteriorate, fostering the perfect environment for pathogens and pests to form in the absence of healthy soil life. 

Why is all this important? Not only because it is the natural, sustainable evolution of life, but because you can make it work for you. Just like enzymes break down waste in septic tanks and specially formulated yogurt regulates our own digestive systems; so to does the Soil Food Web act as an important regulator in nutrient uptake, and disease prevention. A healthy soil ecosystem will hold nutrients in the bodies of Soil Food Web organisms as well as provide around the clock, continuously growing defense systems against pest and diseases- naturally. Plants are healthier and able to truly express their genetic potential because they will get specifically what they need- when they need it. 







To see this wonder of mother nature you only have to close your eyes and think of a forest. Think of the giant sequoias towering over you, or of the many small ferns that are scattered about the forest floor. Think of the numerous fields of wildflowers that blossom every spring, or the brilliant colors of fall that seem to only become more diverse, and striking every year. Think of the picturesque stream carrying seemingly endless amounts of fresh clean water out to sea... 

Its beautiful, it's a part of our culture and our identity- and no one ever fertilized it. 







These environments are completely controlled by the Soil Food Web in which they live. Every single plant produces exudates and in turn attracts beneficial microbiology to its rhizosphere. It is a natural system, and one that operates better without interference from chemical additives and pesticides. The tallest of trees started from the smallest of saplings and continuously evolved without the aids of any miracle powders, and 3 part "A/ B/ Flush" solutions. 

With the proper microbiology in soil pathogens face fierce competition, plants absorb the nutrients they need- when they need it, water drainage and retention is improved, fruit and flowers look and taste better, and the plant has little in the way of stress or strain. Most importantly you don't have to worry about the effects of chemicals on you and your family's health and well being. 

Tru Organics is more than just a process, but a belief at Paradigm that we have a responsibility to respect and preserve what life has spent thousands of years creating. We believe that through the principals taught by the Soil Food Web we can gain a further developed understanding about our own lives and purpose. It is this legacy of understanding and sustainability that we leave for future generations, and that which we will be ultimately judged by. 

https://www.paradigmcollective.org/black/portal.php?portal=tru


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## c4ulater (May 13, 2013)

Well currently I have a HPS and a MH bulb. I have currently a cool tube light set up. It'll just cost more $$ to buy another light set up . But at least I wont need another bulb.  Okay just wanted to know what I should do.


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## c4ulater (May 15, 2013)

WHOA didn't see that post above brother! I'll have to get reading later on tonight. 

So all my stuff showed up today! WOOHOO. Now what can I mix this in? Like what size tote?


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## Sincerely420 (May 15, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> *Soo...I'm on my 3rd soil mix using Fox Farms Ocean Forest as a base soil!*
> 
> *This mix is a little different tho as I'm reusing the soil from 3 plants that I harvest this month!*
> *The soil mix that I used for those 3 plants was:*
> ...


This is how I did it boss!
I feel like the mixing part is a more to each his own type thing, where you do what works best for you ya know?!
Got those worms today too by the way boss! For now I just threw them in a bucket of soil I haven't amended yet. The old root ball from the last harvests


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## c4ulater (May 15, 2013)

Yeah buddy!

Finally got into the worm farm game! Woo. Mine are looking real nice. Picked my corns from the garden and feeding them the skin and cobs. THEY IS LOOKIN PHAT AND RICH. Can't wait to harvest this vermicompost. Smells like earth for real bro. I never knew something like this could smell so good.


Naw - what I was asking. If I mix this in a tote, if I can . How big should I get ? I see people doing them on tarps, but that loops messy. Or in a small little kids pool. Again, messy.

I'd rather do this in a rubbermaid tote. Could you give me a guess on the size I should use?


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## Sincerely420 (May 15, 2013)

I say do with the 18 gallon? That's what I been using. BUT, if you're gonna mix a big batch (I think 4 you said?), you may wanna use something a little bigger to mix them in boss! And I can't wait to get to harvest some too man! That's the good stuff lol.
and some fresh corn on the cob sounds so damn good right about now!! 

PS. the pics from the post above are visible on the OP a few pages back boss


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## Timewasmoney1 (May 15, 2013)

A thing that irks me is inorganic growers only care about "getting the most bud" they say screw anything else!

got my organic mix made up and threw a blueberry gum in it its going great so far! When my blue dream pops its going in it also


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## Sincerely420 (May 15, 2013)

Yeahh it's crazy man. Now that I'm smoking my own, I can really taste a difference between bud organic flowers and non.

One things for sure, as more ppl get their hands on organic bud, more ppl will prefer it! The taste is ntoicably different for sure!
But hey, some ppl are gonna always wanna that extra "whatever" the taste is you get from ferts.
To each his own tho lol. 
Let them have it.

I just can process spending the money on bottled nutrients *DAMN!*


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## hyroot (May 15, 2013)

I know a couple hydro growers that spend in one month on nutes on what I spend in 6-8 months. I know one guy who buys rapid start and canazyme every week. ..... I'm pretty sure they both do the same thing. For me I buy a couple coconuts every week and I get more enzymes out of the coconuts than out of bottles. Plus trace minerals.


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## Timewasmoney1 (May 16, 2013)

Not gonna lie organic ferts can add up if you want the whole shabang. However theyll last a good amount of time for how little you need to use. Except wormcasting now that can rack up a bill -_-


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## c4ulater (May 16, 2013)

*This tea consisted of :
1 gallon dechlorinated H20
1/4 cup Ancient Forest Compost
1 teaspoon Kelp Meal
1/2 teaspoon Neptune's Harvest
2 teaspoons Unsulphured Molasses


....

*okay so for this mix here, did you just put everything in that gallon and cooked it? or did you make some kind of tea bag?


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## Sincerely420 (May 16, 2013)

Timewasmoney1 said:


> Not gonna lie organic ferts can add up if you want the whole shabang. However theyll last a good amount of time for how little you need to use. Except wormcasting now that can rack up a bill -_-


Yeahh I dropped about $100 on everything back in October, and haven't had to buy anything but worm castings and compost since.
Castings are EXPENSIVE lol bcuz they're the best fertilizer you can get, but compost is cheap and goes a long way so it sorta balances out.
But I made that initially investment back in October and have since then harvested 8 plants, and recycled all their soi(about 3 cu ft worth)l, and I don't need to buy anything new, but Bat Guano which is $8. 
So it's safe to say that spending $100 on your organic line-up(meals and dusts and fish hydro) will last you at least a year! 
I'll update for sure when I need to buy things again tho, to put it in perspective! But for now, I'm about $100 in and 8 months running on the same supplies!


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## Sincerely420 (May 16, 2013)

c4ulater said:


> *This tea consisted of :
> 1 gallon dechlorinated H20
> 1/4 cup Ancient Forest Compost
> 1 teaspoon Kelp Meal
> ...


Put all of the above into a gallon of water and bubble it for 18-24hours! Once you've bubbled that long, you can water the soil mix with your tea.
Once you do this, your soil mix starts cooking, or cycling everything that you've added! Takes anywhere from 2wk-1month. You'll now the soil is ready why is smells SUPER earthy rather than the way it did right after you first mixed it


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## Timewasmoney1 (May 16, 2013)

Got my compost covered by my 2 horses. Have a huuuge pile of poo in the pasture 

castings are great ya just wish a tad cheaper. I think in my area they run 16-18$ a bag


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## Timewasmoney1 (May 16, 2013)

c4ulater said:


> *This tea consisted of :
> 1 gallon dechlorinated H20
> 1/4 cup Ancient Forest Compost
> 1 teaspoon Kelp Meal
> ...


not need but if you can throw some fish oil in it. 2 teaspoons on bsm seems a little low


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## Sincerely420 (May 16, 2013)

The Neptune Harvest is fish hydro bro, and you can go up to about 2tbsp per gal of Molasses true.
I just always heir on the light side with in since I use it SO MUCH, and once overdosed my plants on it.
The more I put in the tea, the more molasses I'll use! Like had I used some Bat Guano in that recipe.
But you are right, the recipe at Microbe Organics calls for almost 2tbsp per gallon.
I've had success using a little less tho bro.

Thanks for the mention


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## Sincerely420 (May 16, 2013)

Timewasmoney1 said:


> Got my compost covered by my 2 horses. Have a huuuge pile of poo in the pasture
> 
> castings are great ya just wish a tad cheaper. I think in my area they run 16-18$ a bag


Damn I wish I had a couple horses man! And my area run about the same boss. You can get a BIG ASS bag of wiggleworms, but for a little better grade of casting it's cost SO MUCH MORE lol.


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## Timewasmoney1 (May 16, 2013)

Well some is better than none lol


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## Timewasmoney1 (May 16, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> Damn I wish I had a couple horses man! And my area run about the same boss. You can get a BIG ASS bag of wiggleworms, but for a little better grade of casting it's cost SO MUCH MORE lol.


What are some other brands? Ive only seen wriggleworm castings


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## Sincerely420 (May 16, 2013)

I think wiggle worms is the like commerical suppliers for EWCs. If you look locally you'll probably find that you have a company or two around!
But commercially there's black gold castings, root organic worm casting, and blue ridge castings amongst others.

They look and feel a little different than the wiggle worms, and the came with some worms within. I've found worms in the last 2 bags I bought, but never in 3 giants bags of wiggle worms..
I found that the wiggle worms is a little darker and clumps together a lot more. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, just an observation.
It's crazy thp bcuz I can get almost twice the amount of wiggle worms for the same price as local castings.


But what I need to do, is go ahead and get a pet rabbit lol so I can get that shit to compost! I might have to just surprise my lass with a bunny!


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## c4ulater (May 16, 2013)

okay so, the 

*Neptune's Harvest


*is this the fish and seaweet blend?

, i'm having a hard time finding this and molasses locally. 

can i just mix this soil w/o the tea and just let it sit? also if i don't need to tea it, do i have to water it ? or just stir the soil and let it sit


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## Sincerely420 (May 16, 2013)

Just the fish blend bro. And as far as Molasses goes, look to your local grocery store and then to Walmart.
Doesn't matter the brand as long as you see blackstrap or unsulphered molasses on the bottle.

And you can for sure mix the batch without a tea boss. The tea just kinda jump starts the "cooking" process.
But once you add everything to the soil mix, you do need to wet it down one good time.
I water mine on average maybe twice in that month I let it cook, but some ppl just advise watering once..

My thing is that I know I'm now leaving the soil sitting in water when I water it down, so I can technically water it whenever I want to.
So one watering should be enough, but you can water it a couple times if you wanna no doubt


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## Sincerely420 (May 16, 2013)

Sincerely420 said:


> *A Marijuana Growers Guide To Soil Sweeteners*
> 
> * I bolded and/or made red the things I found really imporant! So feel free to skim!
> 
> ...


*BUMP*A Good bit on Molasses!


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## Sincerely420 (May 16, 2013)

SOMEBEECH said:


> Both parties must benefit for a relationship to be symbiotic. We know that beneficial microbes colonize on the root zone, thus preventing infections from pathogenic fungus, and produce enzymes that speed nutrient absorption. But how do the microorganisms benefit from the relationship? The answer is sugarsmore specifically, carbohydrates that are translocated from the plant (usually from the leaves) to the roots for the microbes to feed on. The microorganisms use the carbohydrates for energy, which allows them to function and reproduce. This is why carbohydrate supplements are so popular in the indoor gardening industry. By directly supplementing carbohydrates to the root zone, a grower can accelerate the reproductive rate of beneficial microorganisms while allowing the plant to retain a good portion of the carbohydrates normally secreted through its roots. The carbohydrates that remain in the plant can be used for other purposes like creating terpenes and terpenoids, which are imperative for promoting flavor, smell and essential oils. However, growers that supplement carbohydrates should always be on the look out for any sign of a pathogenic microorganism infection, as these microorganisms feed on carbohydrates as well. Supplementing carbohydrates to pathogens will accelerate their reproduction and can be devastating, so growers should immediately stop supplementing carbohydrates at the first sign of a potential pathogenic infection.
> Thanks for the link,Alot of good info in the Below the surface,Article.
> Damn S420 you be doing werk!
> Beech


Bump* with the last bump!


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## Timewasmoney1 (May 16, 2013)

Got my molasses at walmart


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## gabuuuth (May 16, 2013)

uses sugar muscovado, with a strong molasses flavor... and most soluble.

mycorrhiza ensure great symbiotic relationship.


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## Sincerely420 (May 16, 2013)

gabuuuth said:


> uses sugar muscovado, with a strong molasses flavor... and most soluble.
> 
> mycorrhiza ensure great symbiotic relationship.


..Not sure what you mean. Could you elaborate on that? Just gave it a quick search engine once over, and everything that came up for it was for culinary use. Seems like just a sugar from old cane juice?? Not really the same thing as Molasses??

And right on about mycos ensuring a good relationship down under!


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## hyroot (May 16, 2013)

Molasses is made from sugar beat extract or sugar cane extract.


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## Sincerely420 (May 16, 2013)

hyroot said:


> Molasses is made from sugar beat extract or sugar cane extract.


Lol, look 5 posts back!


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## c4ulater (May 16, 2013)

I had a busy day today. Didn't get to get a tote to mix! Going to buy one tomorrow and get to work. The first cooking treatment will be with water - seeing how the molasses and etc will be ordered tomorrow. At least when it comes to feeding time - they'll have the tea! 

I'm sure everything will be fine.


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## gabuuuth (May 17, 2013)

Sincerely420, a big deal. sugar that retains most of the natural minerals inherent in sugarcane juice: Phosphorus (P) Calcium (Ca) Magnesium (Mg) Potassium (K) Iron (Fe).

and made from molasses, its a derivative.

mycos born from process hydrolisis with earthworms castings. fungos that like access to carbo, such as glucose and sucrose. its amazing symbiotic relation. the plant gains the benefits of the mycelium's higher absorptive capacity for water and mineral nutrients due to the comparatively large surface area of mycelium: root ratio, thus improving the plant's mineral absorption capabilities.

edit: i found topic only mycos here. damn, freaking good forum.


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## Sincerely420 (May 17, 2013)

Nice bud! So you use it in the place of Molasses? I was looking for some info on it yesterday, and all I could find were ppl using it in the kitchen rather than the garden ya know? But you've had success using it you'd say?
And yeahhhh there's a TON of info on here huh?! 
Good luck with your endeavors brother


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## Sincerely420 (May 17, 2013)

https://www.thegrowcorner.com/vB/printthread.php?t=2590&pp=10&page=1


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## Sincerely420 (May 17, 2013)

*https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=241964&page=56
^^^Original Post^^^

Aloe Vera Botanical Tea* 
[HR][/HR] I was inspired by some info a fell across in the Living organic soil from start through recycling thread. and the spawn of this knowledge is my first experience with Aloe Vera botanical tea...

Scientists have found over 150 nutritional ingredients of Aloe Vera. Imagine picking up a bottle of nutes and reading all of these....... you could market it to those masses for lots of that useless paper stuff 

from CCoots
Quote:

 The ten main areas of chemical constituents of Aloe vera include: Amino Acids, Anthraquinones, Enzymes, Minerals, Vitamins, Lignins, Monosaccharide, Polysaccharides, Salicylic Acid, Saponins, And Sterols.

Amino acids found in Aloe vera include: Isoleucine, Leucine, Lysine, Methionine, Phenylalanine, Threonine, Valine,And Tryptophan. Some Of The Other Non-Essential Amino Acids Found In Aloe Vera Include Alanine, Arginine, Asparagine, Cysteine, Glutamic Acid, Glycine, Histidine, Proline, Serine, Tyrosine, Glutamine, And Aspartic Acid.

Enzymes include Amylase, Bradykinase, Catalase, Cellulas, Lipase, Oxidase, Alkaline Phosphatase, Proteolytias, Creatine Phosphokinase and Carboxypeptidase.

Aloe vera also contains Vitamins B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, and B12 along with Choline, Calcium, Magnesium, Zinc, Manganese, Chromium, Selenium. Additional elements found in Aloe vera include Copper, Iron, Potassium, Phosphorus, And Sodium. 

 
from: Chemical constituents of Aloe Vera
Quote:

 Other constituents of Aloe vera would include prostaglandins, tannins, magnesium lactate, resins, mannins, proteins such as lectins, monosulfonic acid and gibberlin.5 
 
Quote:

  The next elements of Aloe vera we will discuss include monosaccharides and polysaccharides. Monosaccharides contain the simple sugars which include glucose. The polysaccharides are the more complex long-chain sugars involving glucose and mannose or the gluco-mannans. These sugars are ingested whole from the stomach. They do not get
broken down like other sugars, and appear in the bloodstream in exactly the same form. This process is known as pinocytosis. Once in the blood stream, they exert their healing and immuno-regulating effect. Some of these polysaccharides are not absorbed but stick to certain cells lining the gut and form a barrier preventing absorption of unwanted material so helping to prevent a leaking gut syndrome. The sugars are also used in moisturizing preparations.44

One polysaccharide, acemannan, is known for its ability to restore and boost the immune system by stimulating the production of macrophages and improving the activity of T-Lymphocytes by up to 50 %. Acemannan produces immune agents such as interferon and interleukin which help to destroy viruses, bacteria, and tumor cells.45 Acemannan improves cellular metabolism by normalizing cellular function and regulating the flow of nutrients and wastes in and out of the cells. It knows how to destroy parasites and fungus.  
 
Aloe Vera is actually the first plant I ever tended that is still around today.




and I can't believe I haven't heard of Aloe Vera tea for plants (let alone for humans!). 

So here is my recipe:

3L of non-chlorinated RO water
1/8 cup of Aloe Vera gel harvested by Mrs.Chief
1/2 tsp of kelp meal

Aerated and stirred thrice for 24hrs... not much smell in the final product and I used it as a soil drench and foliar spray on all my young plants. *note: you don't have to aerate, you can just stir.. aeration just keeps things moving. 





and so far the plants are loving their aloe vera soil drench and foliar spray. even though they are in their temporary home in the 2x4 400w tent location. we will be watching their progress closely. "


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## Sincerely420 (May 17, 2013)

http://www.mdpi.org/molecules/papers/13081599.pdf


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## Sincerely420 (May 18, 2013)

* Cheap and Easy Worm Bin!​ *  
Composting with redworms is great for apartment dwellers who dont have yard space, or for those who dont want to hike to a backyard compost bin with their food scraps. Some kids like to keep worms for pets! By letting worms eat your food wastes, youll end up with one of the best soil amendments availableworm castings. This is the cheapest and easiest to manage worm bin system that Ive seen:   *Materials Needed to Make an Easy Harvester Worm Bin:*



Two 8-10 gallon plastic storage boxes (dark, not see through!) as shown in pictures Cost: about $5 each 
Drill (with 1/4" and 1/16" bits) for making drainage & ventilation holes 
Newspaper 
About one pound of redworms 
  *




** Step 1 *Drill about twenty evenly spaced 1/4 inch holes in the bottom of each bin. These holes will provide drainage and allow the worms to crawl into the second bin when you are ready to harvest the castings.  
* Step 2 *




Drill ventilation holes about 1  1 ½ inches apart on each side of the bin near the top edge using the 1/16 inch bit. Also drill about 30 small holes in the top of *one* of the lids.  *Step 3*  *




*Prepare bedding for the worms by shredding Newspaper into 1 inch strips. Worms need bedding that is moist but not soggy. Moisten the newspaper by soaking it in water and then squeezing out the excess water. Cover the bottom of the bin with 3-4 inches of moist newspaper, fluffed up. If you have any old leaves or leaf litter, that can be added also. Throw in a handful of dirt for "grit" to help the worms digest their food.




*




* 


* Step 4 *Add your worms to the bedding. One way to gather redworms, is to put out a large piece of wet cardboard on your lawn or garden at night. The redworms live in the top 3 inches of organic material, and like to come up and feast on the wet cardboard! Lift up cardboard to gather the redworms. Or, if you wish to purchase worms, the Cooperative Extension office can give you names of suppliers in Whatcom County. An earthworm can consume about 1/2 of its weight each day. For example, if your food waste averages 1/2 lb. per day, you will need 1 lb. of worms or a 2:1 ratio. There are roughly 500 worms in one pound. If you start out with less than one pound, don't worry they multiply very quickly. Just adjust the amount that you feed them for your worm population. ​ * Step 5 * Cut a piece of cardboard to fit over the bedding, and get it wet. Then cover the bedding with the




cardboard. (Worms love cardboard, and it breaks down within months.)​ * Step 6​ * Place your bin in a well-ventilated area such as a laundry room, garage, balcony, under the kitchen sink, or outside in the shade. Place the bin on




top of blocks or bricks or upside down plastic containers to allow for drainage. You can use the lid of the second bin as a tray to catch any moisture that may drain from the bin. This "worm tea" is a great liquid fertilizer.​ * Step 7​ * Feed your worms slowly at first. As the worms multiply, you can begin to add more food. Gently bury the food in a different section of the bin each week, under the cardboard. The worms will follow the food scraps around the bin. Burying the food scraps will help to keep fruit flys away.​ What do worms like to eat? Feed your worms a vegetarian diet. Most things that would normally go down the garbage disposal can go into your worm bin (see the list below). You will notice that some foods will be eaten faster than others. Worms have their preferences just like us.​ F*eeding your worms:* ​ 
 * Worms LOVE*  *Worms HATE *
 Breads & Grains
Cereal
Coffee grounds & filter
Fruits
Tea bags
Vegetables  Dairy Products
Fats 
Meat
Feces
Oils

 
* 
*When the first bin is full and there are no recognizable food scraps, place new bedding material in the second bin and place the bin directly on the compost surface of the first bin. Bury your food scraps to the bedding of the second bin. In one to two months, most of the worms will have moved to the second bin in search of food. Now the first bin will contain (almost) worm free vermicompost. (You can gently lift out any worms that might remain, and place them in the new bin, or put them into your garden!)​ *Troubleshooting*

 
 *Problem*​ *Probable Cause  *​ *Solution *​ Worms are dying or trying to escape ​ Too wet
Too dry
Bedding is used up ​ Add more bedding
Moisten bedding
Harvest your bin ​ Bin stinks! ​ Not enough air
Too much food
Too wet ​ Drill more ventilation holes
Do not feed for 1-2 weeks
Add more bedding ​ Fruit Flys ​ Exposed food ​ Bury food in bedding ​
  
 Check out Composting with Redworms for lots more information about caring for worms. If you want to use your carpentry skills, you can view plans for a wooden worm bin.

http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/compost/easywormbin.htm​


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## c4ulater (May 20, 2013)

So bro. Everything is in ; as I'm sure I've said. Haven't mixed anything up because I've been busy. Bought a microscope 60x-100x to check out the trichomes. They're all still clear though some hairs are turning amber. But not the trichomes yet. ALMOST TIME. Going to give it straight water till end.


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## headtreep (May 20, 2013)

Regarding Aloe and other things we use over in the ROLS and No Till area. https://www.rollitup.org/organics/636057-recycled-organic-living-soil-rols.html

This was posted by cootz. Really makes me excited for the new version. I know these do what he says because a lot of my strains I've grown before were nearly as chunky as they have been after using these methods.

*"RE: SST v2.0

Besides the increased impact on the plants the other thing is that this is a much faster way to be ready to apply a tea - usually less than 36 hours or so.

I'm 2 or 3 days from harvest with 3 strains and they continue to 'chunk up' from these teas as well as coconut water with aloe vera resulting in very large calyxes, massive resin levels and the smell has rendered my CanFan rig pretty much useless.

"Oh my!"

CC *


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## madamesalacious (May 21, 2013)

hey! if you need granite dust in the future try calling a company that carves gravestones. i got mine for free. they were practically begging me to take it off their hands....so the best things in life AND death are free! ;


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## hyroot (May 21, 2013)

Anyone ever use vermiblend? Compost /ewc / kelp / humus. All in one.


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## hyroot (May 21, 2013)

madamesalacious said:


> hey! if you need granite dust in the future try calling a company that carves gravestones. i got mine for free. they were practically begging me to take it off their hands....so the best things in life AND death are free! ;


Thats kind of irie / creepy.


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## c4ulater (May 21, 2013)

Man I think my current crop is garbage! Going to let the trichomes get a little more amber.. But I tried to dry out one nug and it has ; no smell and roasts like ass


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## bigdaddycatfish4 (May 24, 2013)

3gal ffof
1gal composted leaf humus
1gal mushroom soil
1/4 cup bat shit from the neighbors house (they have thousands of bats in their attic)
1/2 cup dolomite lime
2 handfull's of seaweed / kelp dried from the river by my house
mix and let sit to compost for about 2 months. then it kicks serious ass


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## Trousers (May 25, 2013)

c4ulater said:


> Man I think my current crop is garbage! Going to let the trichomes get a little more amber.. But I tried to dry out one nug and it has ; no smell and roasts like ass



Amber means thc has degraded into CBN. CBN is not desirable.


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## Shwagbag (May 28, 2013)

Trousers said:


> Amber means thc has degraded into CBN. CBN is not desirable.


This is not necessarily true. 

From what I've read CBN can be valuable for situational medicinal strains. CBN is actually psychoactive like THC, just to a much lesser degree. CBN has been documented to reduce anxiety levels from cannabanoid use, and lower intensity of intoxication. It has also been linked to drowsiness and promoting uninterrupted sleep. This can be very valuable for medicinal uses and should not be overlooked. 

Levels of THC, CBD and CBN are determined by genetics as well as cultivation type, duration and drying/curing methods. I have enough strains to harvest consistently with little to no amber and still have medicine to suit me for all of my desired effects because of differences in genetic traits, but a person with few strains could adjust their harvest window to find where their fruits provide their desired effects. When I want to be chatty and have a social time I reach for super lemon haze. When I want to get round house kicked to the face I reach for sugar punch. When I need help sleeping I go for AK47 or Jackberry. A person with only one strain could potentially get all of these effects by adjusting their harvest window to early, middle and late. Food for thought. 

c4ulater, don't be discouraged by the smell and flavor of a "speed dried" fruit that has not been cured. An appropriate cure for as little as one to three weeks will add ALOT of consistency, flavor and aroma to your harvest. Do you have some recent pics?


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## Trousers (May 31, 2013)

Which part was wrong and could you post some links? I'd like to read about it.
Why would you want your THC to be reduced by 90%?

CBN is THC rotting. I don't eat rotten food, why smoke rotten weed? 

Cannabinol or (CBN) is an *oxidative degradation* product of THC. It may result from improper storage or curing and extensive processing, such as when making concentrates. It is usually formed when THC is exposed to UV light and oxygen over time.


CBN has some psychoactive properties, about 10% of the strength of THC.
CBN is thought by researchers to enhance the dizziness and disorientation users of cannabis may experience.
It may cause feelings of grogginess and has been shown to reduce heart rate.
90% of the time I use marijuana is to get high. The other 10% is because I want to get high and alleviate some sort of pain/illness. Most people do not use marijuana exclusively for medicinal purposes. 

To say that you can radically change the way weed gets you high by making the weed rot more is interesting. Personally I do not believe that at all. It would make more sense that genetics and environment dictate the effects. 

I guess if you let your THC go completely amber, it would make you a bit more groggy and sick feeling.


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## Shwagbag (Jun 1, 2013)

Trousers said:


> Which part was wrong and could you post some links? I'd like to read about it.
> Why would you want your THC to be reduced by 90%?
> 
> CBN is THC rotting. I don't eat rotten food, why smoke rotten weed?
> ...


No links sorry, just going from memory from various things I've read over the years. 

I don't disagree with your comments other than "CBN is not desirable." For some, it may be. I've always thought that generalizing when every grower should harvest their cannabis is counterproductive. Its safe to say that experienced growers prefer to harvest based on their own desires as well as the people or patients they cultivate for. I personally try to get cloudy with no amber, basically on the edge of early. I do exactly what you're suggesting by choosing appropriate strains to produce the desired effect. That said, choosing strains takes time, often years to build a nice selection of cannabis producing situational effects, so timing the window for harvest can definitely help to achieve a variety of desired effects while keeping a legal medical garden. A 24% THC strain that degrades a little is still going to get the user "high" with a little degradation while perhaps bringing other desired effects to the table. 

I have caregiver friends that like the narcotic effect from their weed, something that is typically not desirable for me, which you and I probably have in common. They seem to gauge potency by the weed's "crippling" effect, and I've learned that many people share this same ideology, which I disagree with. Basically, some people like the disorienting power of a little CBN, and moreover some medical patients can benefit from it for pain relief, to slow the mind down and encourage relaxation and sleep. I need my mind to stay sharp and always have a long to-do list (mostly use for anxiety and depression), so I prefer to be active. Everyone has different desires so I suggest that everyone try different stages of harvest of new strains to conclude when is best for them. There is no one way as we all know, we all do it differently. I think you understand where I'm coming from. 

SB


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## c4ulater (Jul 2, 2013)

To settle things up! It was garbage ; being it was a hermi. It's okay though! It was my first grow and I'm sure I had a stressful environment for the ladies..

Anyways , new room set up and good to go! Just waiting for the seeds to hatch


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## c4ulater (Jul 4, 2013)

Where has Sincerly420 been?!


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## Sppoc (Aug 17, 2013)

Current grow I filled pot with FFOF and then dug a 3"x3" hole or so then filled it with organic topsoil and planted a germed seed right to the soil. 

Did this to avoid burning the little one.


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## Shwagbag (Aug 18, 2013)

c4ulater said:


> Where has Sincerly420 been?!


He quit growing and moved along as far as I know. He may check-in from time to time but I'm not certain. I will miss him from the forum come winter!


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## Trousers (Aug 24, 2013)

A couple of my crosses in my first true organic run with the Fox Farms seed to harvest mix:







Superpower x an Indica mutt (possibly Ingrid dominate) on the left
Banana Kush x Blue Dream on the right.

I think they look pretty good. 

I'm still getting used to watering. I have been soaking them about every 3 days. I hit them with tea twice.
My cheapo tent finally failed at the corner brackets after 5 years. I bought a new one and gave the old tent to a friend. 
They will go into flower as soon as I get my new tent. 

I put leftover tea in my veg garden outside and it has exploded. I have grape tomatoes coming out of my ears.


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## Trousers (Oct 10, 2013)

I had some minor deficiencies that I will blame on using 3 gallon pots. 
I may boost the N a bit on the next mix and will be using 5 gallon pots next time.

The low RH and the air pots make the soil dry out pretty quick.


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## captiankush (Oct 11, 2013)

my latest concoction:

1 bag ffof
1 bag ffhf
2 lbs of bat guano
6 coffee cups of glacial rock dust

Mix well and use immediately.

No nutes during veg, Just PH'd RO

Ive used this for 3 runs and havent had a problem 

CK


----------



## lightcollection2013 (Oct 15, 2013)

Hi Im going to be using the General Organic line with The House of gardens Root excellerent and liquid Karma. 

12 PLANTS LEGAL LIMIT

For soilless I'm thinking of going with PRO-MIX BX BIOFUNGICIDE+MYCORRHIZAE..

Im wondering if this sound fine for my plants or if anyone has any recommendations. 

I wanna do a 10 week veg cycle (I want big Plants. 
WATER, FEED, WATER going to WATER, FEED, FEED

SOLO CUPS FOR 2 WEEKS FLORESENT LIGHTING(I got plants in solo cups)

1 GALLON FOR 3WEEKS UNDER A 400 WATT MHPRO-MIX BX BIOFUNGICIDE+MYCORRHIZAE

BEFORE GOING INTO A 7 GALLON FOR 5 WEEKS UNDER (2) 1000 watt mh.
I wanna line the bottom 2 inches of the the pots with something maybe sterile rocks for aeration open to recommendations.


----------



## JoeyV (Oct 16, 2013)

I've read quite a few times now that FFOF runs out of nutes after a few weeks. Could someone elaborate on this a bit more?

What size container are we talkin about? Indica? Sativas? Is it strain dependent?


----------



## Shwagbag (Oct 17, 2013)

JoeyV said:


> I've read quite a few times now that FFOF runs out of nutes after a few weeks. Could someone elaborate on this a bit more?
> 
> What size container are we talkin about? Indica? Sativas? Is it strain dependent?


Yes it will most likely run out of juice after 3-4 weeks. I used to start light feeding after the 3rd week in the pot. If using organics a top dress feeding could be done earlier. Container size is completely related to the size of the previous container or the size of the plant. From 1 gallon to 4-5 gallon probably 3 weeks. If you go from a 1 gallon to an 8 gallon, you might get an extra week IMO.

The best thing you can do is watch the plant and let it tell you when it needs extra food. When it asks for it, feed it.


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## KeepItGrowing317 (Nov 3, 2013)

captiankush said:


> my latest concoction:
> 
> 
> 1 bag ffof
> ...



What about flower ?? Nutrient wise..


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## KeepItGrowing317 (Nov 3, 2013)

Just to chime in.. I'm on my second grow now with FFOF soil and my first plants were flowered in 3 gal pots and had yellow/brown spots half way thru flower that I just could not figure out. My plants did fine on just water until they were chopped. But I never found a solution. I'm in week 5-6 of flower on my second run this time in 5 gal pots and man my ladies looked sooooo good up until now, that yellowing with brown spots is back. Thankfully I don't think my buds will suffer TOO much because we're almost done and they can make it on just water. But again, I would like to find a solution.. I've used FFOF straight out of the bag. With RO water.. this run I used absolutely zero nutes during veg. Started using botanicares base and bloom during flower. At 25%.. Plants have looked beautiful and had no problems up until mid flower.. So I've heard that cutting my soil with dolomite lime is important. Any thoughts on lime w/ FFOF ? Idk I would just like to figure this out before my next run. Thank u


----------



## KeepItGrowing317 (Nov 3, 2013)

When using FFOF straight out the bag I have a few questions to ask.. 
1. Any input on dolomite lime.. 

2. I'm using RO water, should I be using my General Organics cal mag every watering? 

3. I know for 100% in my experience that FFOF does not have enough juice to go long term un ammended or all alone. So with my set up what would be the best route to getting my plants thru flower ??

Using FFOF soil. I have Botanicare's KIND base, grow, and bloom. I also have liquid karma. I have a bottle of GO cal/mag too. And so far with that I have not had to use any of the nutes for veg. But mid way flower it runs out. What should I be doing to fix this ?? Thanks in advance. And sorry about this sloppy post. I'm just new to the forum world.


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## KeepItGrowing317 (Nov 4, 2013)

I just read a lot of this thread lol. I'm going organic fully.


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## bioWheel (Nov 4, 2013)

KeepItGrowing317 said:


> I just read a lot of this thread lol. I'm going organic fully.


There's a saying: Once you go organic you won't go back.


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 4, 2013)

KeepItGrowing317 said:


> When using FFOF straight out the bag I have a few questions to ask..
> 1. Any input on dolomite lime..
> 
> 2. I'm using RO water, should I be using my General Organics cal mag every watering?
> ...


I would imagine that the FFOF would be adequately limed, but keep an eye on it. If you start noticing any necrosis/spotting on your leaves the CalMg+ might come in handy. The soil itself will have enough juice to carry you through a reasonable veg time, and possibly a few weeks in to flower but I'm thinking you will need to intervene at some point. I would grab a bag of Espoma Garden-Tone (or something similar) to top-dress a time or two with. You could also bubble a few teas on the cheap too.

I can't speak on the Botanicare products as I've never used them. 

Good luck!


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## KeepItGrowing317 (Nov 4, 2013)

Thanks Stow, yea I'm in the process of getting everything together for a super soil. I'll be brewing teas as well. I'd rather not use synthetics than have to adjust them all the time. Organic is the way to go. Thanks guys.


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## KeepItGrowing317 (Nov 4, 2013)

st0wandgrow said:


> I would imagine that the FFOF would be adequately limed, but keep an eye on it. If you start noticing any necrosis/spotting on your leaves the CalMg+ might come in handy. The soil itself will have enough juice to carry you
> through a reasonable veg time, and possibly a few weeks in to flower but I'm thinking you will need to intervene at some point. I would grab a bag of Espoma Garden-Tone (or something similar) to top-dress a time or two with. You could also bubble a few teas on the cheap too.
> 
> I can't speak on the Botanicare products as I've never used them.
> ...


Yea my veg always has been on point with FFof straight out of the bag, its just a few weeks into flower it starts problems. And if u try to adjust with synthetics its easy to over due it with fox farm.. and the salts just build up in the soil and cause ph problems which leads to lockout. So from my personal experience, if youre going to use a soil like Fox Farm oceans forest, you'd be better off amending it like u said. Rather than using synthetic nutes. I've definitely learned a lot and I just cannot say it enough, Organic is the way to go ! I'll update soon on my super soil mix. Thanks for the feedback


----------



## mrblu (Nov 6, 2013)

so i keep digging through the thread from the end. if a person wanted a strait guide on making soil that can go 8 weeks veg and flower with just teas. how to make the soil and how to make the teas because i cant seem to find the general recipe for these just a bunch of variations of the base.


----------



## Shwagbag (Nov 13, 2013)

KeepItGrowing317 said:


> Just to chime in.. I'm on my second grow now with FFOF soil and my first plants were flowered in 3 gal pots and had yellow/brown spots half way thru flower that I just could not figure out. My plants did fine on just water until they were chopped. But I never found a solution. I'm in week 5-6 of flower on my second run this time in 5 gal pots and man my ladies looked sooooo good up until now, that yellowing with brown spots is back. Thankfully I don't think my buds will suffer TOO much because we're almost done and they can make it on just water. But again, I would like to find a solution.. I've used FFOF straight out of the bag. With RO water.. this run I used absolutely zero nutes during veg. Started using botanicares base and bloom during flower. At 25%.. Plants have looked beautiful and had no problems up until mid flower.. So I've heard that cutting my soil with dolomite lime is important. Any thoughts on lime w/ FFOF ? Idk I would just like to figure this out before my next run. Thank u


CalMag or dolomite lime is essential if using FFOF out of the bag. I ran into the same issues as a beginner using FFOF. 



KeepItGrowing317 said:


> When using FFOF straight out the bag I have a few questions to ask..
> 1. Any input on dolomite lime..
> 
> 2. I'm using RO water, should I be using my General Organics cal mag every watering?
> ...


1. Its good, I prefer "fast acting" although neither the heavier granular nor the fast acting are truly "fast acting". It can take days to weeks before its soluble enough to supplement the plants, so I recommend to apply early or cook it in the soil.
2. I would use it at least every other or every 3rd watering unless the plants say otherwise. 
3. A flowering supplement or nutrient tea would be great. Before I started doing soil mixes I was a huge fan of Root's Organic Buddha Bloom. Its basically soluble organic fertilizer. I used it on my first grow with FFOF + BB + CalMag and just killed it in 3-4 gallon containers. I amazed myself! Later I retired the BB for soil mixes as I said, I then became a big fan of Dr. Earth Bud & Bloom and Espoma Tomato Tone (S420 was also a fan). Mostly used as a top dress slightly mixed into the top inch or two of the soil. If applied earlier than the plants required it, it was a flawless supplementation.



st0wandgrow said:


> I would imagine that the FFOF would be adequately limed, but keep an eye on it. If you start noticing any necrosis/spotting on your leaves the CalMg+ might come in handy. The soil itself will have enough juice to carry you through a reasonable veg time, and possibly a few weeks in to flower but I'm thinking you will need to intervene at some point. I would grab a bag of Espoma Garden-Tone (or something similar) to top-dress a time or two with. You could also bubble a few teas on the cheap too.
> 
> I can't speak on the Botanicare products as I've never used them.
> 
> Good luck!


FFOF is absolutely NOT adequately limed. Everything else you said is spot on 



KeepItGrowing317 said:


> Yea my veg always has been on point with FFof straight out of the bag, its just a few weeks into flower it starts problems. And if u try to adjust with synthetics its easy to over due it with fox farm.. and the salts just build up in the soil and cause ph problems which leads to lockout. So from my personal experience, if youre going to use a soil like Fox Farm oceans forest, you'd be better off amending it like u said. Rather than using synthetic nutes. I've definitely learned a lot and I just cannot say it enough, Organic is the way to go ! I'll update soon on my super soil mix. Thanks for the feedback


I've been exactly there when I first started. dropped the PH under 5 from salt buildup. Needed a flush followed followed by reintroducing nutes and CalMag, then all better! That was my first lesson learned with nutes lol.


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## Shwagbag (Nov 13, 2013)

mrblu said:


> so i keep digging through the thread from the end. if a person wanted a strait guide on making soil that can go 8 weeks veg and flower with just teas. how to make the soil and how to make the teas because i cant seem to find the general recipe for these just a bunch of variations of the base.


Check out Subcool's super soil or LC's soilles mix recipe. Sub's is pretty straight forward and you can amend it if you wish, LC's gives you some choices depending if you plan to use nutrient teas or not. 

I started with Sub's mix and ended up just making my own, but i really want to try LC's soilless mix or a variation of it on my next run. I opted to use a variety of different base soils for diversity in my current mix.


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## aeroman (Nov 16, 2013)

Shwagbag said:


> FFOF is absolutely NOT adequately limed.


That's definitely the truth. I'd simplify that further to say it's not adequate, period, but that's more in the realm of personal opinion.


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## Shwagbag (Nov 17, 2013)

aeroman said:


> That's definitely the truth. I'd simplify that further to say it's not adequate, period, but that's more in the realm of personal opinion.


lol, I prefer roots, but I do like the peat base rather than a coir base. Both of them are 15 bucks a bag at my local shop so maybe I should mix them! 

I wish roots made a "richer" peat based mix. The 707 just seems a bit light compared to the coir based bags. The 707 actually does make a nice base for a mix. I've used it before as part of my mixes.


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## RedCarpetMatches (Nov 17, 2013)

IMO you have to be either lazy (make your own mix easy), a sucker, misguided, or loooove fungal gnats to buy FFOF.


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## Shwagbag (Nov 18, 2013)

RedCarpetMatches said:


> IMO you have to be either lazy (make your own mix easy), a sucker, misguided, or loooove fungal gnats to buy FFOF.


I use it here and there since its so cheap at my local shop. I make my own flowering mixes but I sometimes will use FFOF for top fill or for vegging. I did a bunch of transplanting yesterday and opted for Pro-Mix with Espoma Tomato Tone for my veggers. I think that will suffice until their ready for their flowering pots. The roots seem to expand more rapidly using a peat based mix vs a coir based mix which is why I can't beat the 15 bucks per bag for FFOF. I would bOn Pro-Mix if it had a vaj-j though. I love that stuff soo baaaaad.


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## crispypb840 (Nov 30, 2013)

I use OF and have had good success as long as you are growing a nutrient heavy plant. I like to add (per bag) 1cup Happy Frog fruit and flower, 2 cups hydrated lime, 1 gal pearlite. It really doesn't need any of this I just like to add a little boost. The only problem I have had is that hyper sensitive plants(DP Blueberry) will get a little tip burn.


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## crispypb840 (Dec 13, 2013)

I use FFOF. Additives are per 1 bag 2cups hydrated lime and 1 cup happy frog fruit and flower 5-5-5. 1gal perlite. That's it until around 3-4 weeks then I start feedings 1/2 strength. General Organics nutes. Blackstrap molasses.


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## aeroman (Dec 30, 2013)

RedCarpetMatches said:


> IMO you have to be either lazy (make your own mix easy), a sucker, misguided, or loooove fungal gnats to buy FFOF.


THIS!



Shwagbag said:


> I use it here and there since its so cheap at my local shop. I make my own flowering mixes but I sometimes will use FFOF for top fill or for vegging. I did a bunch of transplanting yesterday and opted for Pro-Mix with Espoma Tomato Tone for my veggers. I think that will suffice until their ready for their flowering pots. The roots seem to expand more rapidly using a peat based mix vs a coir based mix which is why I can't beat the 15 bucks per bag for FFOF. I would bOn Pro-Mix if it had a vaj-j though. I love that stuff soo baaaaad.


Just my opinion but thats like using the cheapest hooker because it saves money
sure she's probably brimming with disease, but look at how much money I saved!

*shudder*

I don't care how much I save if it comes with a free gnat infestation it costs too much


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## st0wandgrow (Dec 30, 2013)

aeroman said:


> THIS!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't use FFOF so I can't comment on how good it is as a medium, but you're blowing the fungus gnat thing out of proportion. Fungus gnats are very simple to get rid of if you ever find them in your garden.


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## Shwagbag (Jan 1, 2014)

aeroman said:


> THIS!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, but your analogy is about as inaccurate as a person can contrive lol. Funny nonetheless 

I have to agree wit st0w, "brimming with disease" is a bit dramatic 

I've never had any significant issues with fungus gnats from any one single soil manufacturer. I've seen them in just about everything grow store bought except Pro-Mix due to it's moisture level and packaging methods. 

The brand bashing of this soil may not be completely justified IMO. FFOF is still one of the most widely used bagged soils available, and for good reason, it grows dank.... Well the bag is pretty too and its name is catchy.... Its not perfect, but if slightly amended it can be a great medium.

These bags are hauled all over the country, stored outdoors, stored and shipped next to other products etc. If I had to make an educated guess, most of the issues with soil born pests relating to bagged soil come from the logistics of its delivery as opposed to the actual manufacturing of it. Gnats like dirt with composted material, period. Frequency wise, I've had more issues with Roots Organics than FFOF by far, but it doesn't make either a bad bag of soil. 

I prefer local products when available, but we're a little short on peat moss in these parts. 

FFOF is not $15 a bag everywhere either, my store just has a great deal on it to get people in the door. Its his marketing concept and it works quite well for him.

Happy new year folks!


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## SSmitty91 (Jan 3, 2014)

So the time has come to make a switch (new grow location, new setup, along with new ferts) the only question im left with is do I bite the bullet and use the FF hydro line, or can I just use the HF Tomato and Vegetable line for veg, and then switch over to the Fruit and Flower line when switching to bloom? And then use the trio pack along with the BB as a supplement?? Soil wise I'm using the Royal: Basement line. And up to this point they have just gotten water, mychrohizae, and root solution (all powder solutions recommended at the local grow shop, although not for what im using them for) Like I said im just trying to narrow it down. Im really curious about the Happy Frog Tomato & Vegetable and the Fruit and Flower lines because we also are trying to figure out a line for the greenhouses here in a few months as well and it would amazing if we could just use the same fert line for both. The whole Happy Frog line, Jump Start, T&V and F&F all seem like should do the job, just really wondering if anyone has any experience, or any other recommendations that could steer me one way or the other. I definitely want to start going organic, as we have the land and capabilities to not have to shell out ridiculous amounts of money for ferts when we could be generating our own.


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## crispypb840 (Jan 4, 2014)

Why does some1 have to be lazy to use ff. It is a good mix and has a wide variety of elements that are beneficial to plants and soil microbes. I am a fairly new grower but have bought around a dozen bags of this stuff and ive never had a problem other than it is a little hot for seedlings. You seem like a hater. Maybe the nats are attracted to little bitches. 


RedCarpetMatches said:


> IMO you have to be either lazy (make your own mix easy), a sucker, misguided, or loooove fungal gnats to buy FFOF.


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## tobinates559 (Jan 21, 2014)

RedCarpetMatches said:


> IMO you have to be either lazy (make your own mix easy), a sucker, misguided, or loooove fungal gnats to buy FFOF.


i use FFOF and dont have fungus gnats sooooo....


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## Atlas Genetics (Jan 29, 2014)

Gonna be using ocean forest will add 2 cups dolo lime 2
1 1/2 cup dte vegan mix 1/2 cup crab shell meal per 2 cuft. Question will this take a 3-4 week vegged plant all the way they flower or close? Add more dry fert suggestions? 3 gallon smart pot 65 day finisher.


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## westchef (Feb 23, 2014)

Did you add Tea every other watering bro?


Sincerely420 said:


> That Master Gardening sectional is gonna get you right boss! EVERYTHING is there!
> 
> And I uses teas all throughout with my first batch brother!
> Just got better with it as time has gone!


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## mrwood (Feb 23, 2014)

westchef said:


> Did you add Tea every other watering bro?


fyi, Sincerely420 does not appear to be posting here anymore. But I like this thread & method, so glad to see it still going !
I use a similar method to 420's, and do not feed every other watering.

Your feeding schedule is going depend on a number of variables, like your strain, condition of your soil & plant, size of plant, size of pot, etc.
I am currently using 420's soil mix, amended after a couple of grows. I feed the soil ~1/week (kelp/mol, compost tea once in veg & flower). If the plants shows deficiencies, I may use a fish or guano tea.


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## tobinates559 (Mar 2, 2014)

Atlas Genetics said:


> Gonna be using ocean forest will add 2 cups dolo lime 2
> 1 1/2 cup dte vegan mix 1/2 cup crab shell meal per 2 cuft. Question will this take a 3-4 week vegged plant all the way they flower or close? Add more dry fert suggestions? 3 gallon smart pot 65 day finisher.



as long as you transplant right before you flip, i think you should be ok..its nice to have a base nute to use when you see early fading, or you can topfeed with more soil if you catch it early


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## Atlas Genetics (Mar 2, 2014)

Thank you sir i Got à hold of some amazing local worm casting From the composting co in case


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## indonesia (Mar 6, 2014)

ffof has something like 15 different micorrhizae already. its all preference really. Endless techniques. Anyone tried subs recipe? or anything like it starting with the roots lineup


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## Shwagbag (Mar 7, 2014)

indonesia said:


> ffof has something like 15 different micorrhizae already. its all preference really. Endless techniques. Anyone tried subs recipe? or anything like it starting with the roots lineup


I've tried Sub's recipe along with my own several different variations, some of which are within this forum. All of them were pretty good, although I did make a batch with some recycled soil which didn't seem to have the right PH buffers or ratios. I just put used soil in the garden now! Here's one from my mix somewhere in these pages, Cheers!

TGA Subcool - Vortex


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## DonPetro (Mar 7, 2014)

Damn buddy. That shit looks proper! What do you use for lighting?


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## Shwagbag (Mar 7, 2014)

DonPetro said:


> Damn buddy. That shit looks proper! What do you use for lighting?


Thanks Don! That one was under 1000 HPS. Long veg for the gerth lol and yield lol. She had a few synthetics, I can't lie, I did cheat a little with some Cal Mag and some Jack's here and there


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 20, 2014)

fox farm isn't organic. their soil is now called "naturally smart soil" they changed something in it that makes it inorganic


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## Pattahabi (Jun 20, 2014)

radicaldank42 said:


> fox farm isn't organic. their soil is now called "naturally smart soil" they changed something in it that makes it inorganic


I thought I had heard something about this. Does anyone have anymore information about what was changed in their mix?

The title of this thread just cracks me up. Sounds like a marketing slogan straight off the FF website. Because easy is the most important part of organics... riiight.

The only thing Americans truly fear is inconvenience.


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 20, 2014)

well let me look I actually have a small bag that actually is still the "organic"


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 20, 2014)

I cant tell by looking at the two bags ingredients. must be one of the ingredients isn't organic


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## Pattahabi (Jun 20, 2014)

radicaldank42 said:


> I cant tell by looking at the two bags ingredients. must be one of the ingredients isn't organic


For shits and giggles, I'm wondering if your organic bag has any organic certifications? USDA? ORMI (which is a listing not certification)? Maybe it was never organic in the first place and they just got called on the carpet for it? lol.

Seriously, I'm curious. This product is no longer even marketed as organic, what the hell did they put in it? 

P-


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 20, 2014)

rite that's what im trying to find out. and no not a daumn thing. huh I never thought to look at that.


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## Guerrilla OP (Jun 22, 2014)

Do you guys have canna terra professional potting soil in the states? It's worth a look Its a real organic soil it is a very stable consistent mix (much more so than fox farms) and I've had very good results compared to fox farms. A simple mix of this with chicken manure, bone meal, high nitrogen bat guano and gypsum... Is the best organic mix I've found and requires no additional feeding until flowering, black and gold is almost as good but far to expensive to ship to Australia when filling large smart pots...


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## Shwagbag (Jun 22, 2014)

I've never seen it  

I tell you what though, I did a single bag run of some Alaskan Ice in a bag of ecoscraps potting mix with a few added organics during transplant and that shit works proper for a cheap bagged vegan soil. I think its 7 bucks per 1 cubic foot bag and I bought it at Target. I'll def do another couple runs with it and see what I can get out of it. I ran out of my soil mix a couple months ago and nothing I'm doing stacks up with the my mix 

This one is probably the closest run with a few additives. I'm fairly certain I got root aphids from FFOF.... I wouldn't say its Fox Farm's fault, these damn soils are all transported and delivered on the same damn trucks. Its a shame when you bring insects into your grow from something that should be sterile. 

Have a good Sunday peeps!


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## PSUAGRO. (Jul 2, 2014)

Shwagbag said:


> I've never seen it
> 
> I tell you what though, I did a single bag run of some Alaskan Ice in a bag of ecoscraps potting mix with a few added organics during transplant and that shit works proper for a cheap bagged vegan soil. I think its 7 bucks per 1 cubic foot bag and I bought it at Target. I'll def do another couple runs with it and see what I can get out of it. I ran out of my soil mix a couple months ago and nothing I'm doing stacks up with the my mix
> 
> ...


Your expecting LOS to be sterile??!!!??.............say it ain't so ass=man


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## Shwagbag (Jul 7, 2014)

What's LOS? Lol


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## Pattahabi (Jul 8, 2014)

Living Organic Soil, or ROLS - Recycled Living Organic Soil.


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## Shwagbag (Jul 8, 2014)

Ahh, poor choice of words. Definitely not sterile, but free of insects and disease at least!


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## Shwagbag (Jul 8, 2014)

I miss S420! S420 if you stop by for a visit please PM me so we can reconnect in cyberspace.


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## Pattahabi (Jul 8, 2014)

If you are running ROLS/LOS, you should have bugs in your soil. Bugs are part of the soil ecosystem.


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## Shwagbag (Jul 13, 2014)

Lol... I will pass on the fungus gnats and the root aphids. Although they can be part of living organic soil, I would prefer to stick with beneficial micro organisms as opposed to pests without natural predators in an indoor environment. If you encounter these pests in nature, things can work themselves out, but even in my outdoor vegetable garden I have to take preventative and reactive measures to combat organisms that are not beneficial to the plants' well being and are not inviting to natural predators. 

Damn root aphids - I nailed them with nematodes and Botanigard. It helped, but root aphids are nasty little creatures! Fungus gnats, they are easy to eliminate, but root aphids are as stubborn or more stubborn than mites.


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## canadiankushman (Jul 23, 2014)

Pattahabi, what do you use against pests? I've gone the route of using ladybugs but they don't seem to sick around much, and I cant seem to source nematodes.. 

Ck.


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## Pattahabi (Jul 23, 2014)

canadiankushman said:


> Pattahabi, what do you use against pests? I've gone the route of using ladybugs but they don't seem to sick around much, and I cant seem to source nematodes..
> 
> Ck.


Canadian, can you be more specific when you say _pests_? I rely a lot on stacking functions. Layering my pest management to constantly deter pests. It also varies depending on the stage of the game the plant is in. ie a veg plant, or a 6 week flowering plant. Generally speaking, I don't think lady bugs do much for pest management. At least that is my anecdotal evidence.

P-


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## canadiankushman (Jul 23, 2014)

Pattahabi said:


> Canadian, can you be more specific when you say _pests_? I rely a lot on stacking functions. Layering my pest management to constantly deter pests. It also varies depending on the stage of the game the plant is in. ie a veg plant, or a 6 week flowering plant. Generally speaking, I don't think lady bugs do much for pest management. At least that is my anecdotal evidence.
> 
> P-


I guess I'm referring to the usual suspects, root aphids, fungus gnats, spider mites, ect.. 
I can also confirm that ladybugs, alone, do squat to stop an outbreak.


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## Pattahabi (Jul 23, 2014)

canadiankushman said:


> I guess I'm referring to the usual suspects, root aphids, fungus gnats, spider mites, ect..
> I can also confirm that ladybugs, alone, do squat to stop an outbreak.


Imo, once you have an outbreak, then you are in disaster recovery type situation lol. It happens. If it is mites, make sure you hit them hard every three days, 3-4 times to break the cycle.

Root aphids I don't really worry about at this point. I'll let you know if that changes, but I have had root aphids when I was doing super soils. I have not with a living organic soil. The way I see it, Rock dust = pest deterrent, crab meal = chitin = builds plants SAR (basically an immune system for pests and disease) makes the plant produce chitinase. Neem meal disrupts reproductive cycle of pests. SST's contain chitinase. I try to hit them from all directions.

For bugs on the foliage, I generally rotate mild to more severe doses of botanicals and karanaja/neem. Thrips I use spinosad. I don't worry too much about fungus gnats. They seem to come and go. I suppose if I was worried about it, I would get some h. miles, nematodes, etc, or maybe some BT bacteria. I've not used predators other then lady bugs, but I have been eyeing a couple I might throw in this fall.

Staying ahead of the game is key imo!

Peace!
P-


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## yoyogreen (Jul 23, 2014)

mmmmm....pests. have a clean and sealed grow.....shower with bastille soap and put on clean clothes before entering room. never skip these steps...ever. never let anyone else see your grow...ever....if these steps alone don't prevent pests in you indoor grow....you be sloppy. its not hard to keep them out....just don't let them in, root aphids? lol.....if these have an affect on your grow then your plants are straight up weak and not all natural. mites? shut your shit down after harvest for a few weeks....if this is a problem then your priorities are skewed and you need to let grow of greed....its rreal easy to get rid of pests, you just got to be willing to start over.


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## yoyogreen (Jul 23, 2014)

spraying plants on the regs or even ever?....gross


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## Pattahabi (Jul 24, 2014)




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## TheWaterBoy (Jul 25, 2014)

I'll triple 'facepalm' that... Ignorant!


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## Julius Caesar (Aug 13, 2014)

I would like to know what is in FFOF that tends to burn clones, yet when I compost my own super-soil recipe I get no burn although my soil surely has more additives than Ocean Forest. Surely the composted in the bag sitting in the store. So what is the ingredient that is causing nute burn?


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## st0wandgrow (Aug 13, 2014)

Julius Caesar said:


> I would like to know what is in FFOF that tends to burn clones, yet when I compost my own super-soil recipe I get no burn although my soil surely has more additives than Ocean Forest. Surely the composted in the bag sitting in the store. So what is the ingredient that is causing nute burn?


Synthetically derived urea is what I was told. Apparently that is why they do not have an "organic" certification for ocean forrest any more


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## buckaroo bonzai (Sep 7, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Synthetically derived urea is what I was told. Apparently that is why they do not have an "organic" certification for ocean forrest any more



urine stow.......

--but whos?

vegan?
meat pooper?

lots of urea in milorganite......
-same type....

It is composed of heat-dried microbes that have digested the organic matter in wastewater.


http://www.milorganite.com/Using-Milorganite/What-is-It.aspx


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## skywalkerAK (Sep 21, 2014)

I just put 18 critical kush clones into straight up ffof mixed with 30% perlite and didn't burn one of them. Did the same with 17 skywalker clones and didn't burn and I'm going to do the same with 18 ak48 clones. Not sure why you keep burning up u r plants.


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## shannonball (Oct 11, 2014)

1:1 Happy Frog and FFOF. not need to add any nutrients for at least 4 weeks. sometimes even longer.


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## Pattahabi (Oct 11, 2014)

Why is this thread even still here?

I thought we had well established FFOF is not organic? Can we move this over to the hydro section?



P-


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## AllenHaze (Oct 16, 2014)

For people who are just starting organic gardening, buying a bag of ffof can be much less expensive then the start up costs of building your own soil. How many of us started with ocean forest but have since moved on? The first time I smelled a bag of OF I fell in love with organics and immediately set out to expand upon my understanding of what it was in the soil that made it smell so good. In that regard, I can see the value of keeping this thread open.


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## Pattahabi (Oct 16, 2014)

AllenHaze said:


> For people who are just starting organic gardening, buying a bag of ffof can be much less expensive then the start up costs of building your own soil. How many of us started with ocean forest but have since moved on? The first time I smelled a bag of OF I fell in love with organics and immediately set out to expand upon my understanding of what it was in the soil that made it smell so good. In that regard, I can see the value of keeping this thread open.


Except it's not organic? Why would we have non-organic threads in the organic section? Wait, your the one using super thrive and big bloom aren't you?

P-


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## AllenHaze (Oct 16, 2014)

Pattahabi said:


> Except it's not organic? Why would we have non-organic threads in the organic section? Wait, your the one using super thrive and big bloom aren't you?
> 
> P-


Yes, I've purchased big bloom and super thrive in the past. If you must know, I've only bought them once each over a year ago. You know, you get drawn into the hype. In the context of a perfectly sustained, living soil, FFOF, because of it's not so organic ingredients (in limited ratios) may be an issue - at least until they have been flushed out or broken down. Now, in the context of _general_ _organic gardening_, ffof with its primarily organic composition would fit better in the "organics" section then in the "hydro" section. I mean if it's 99% "organic" I think we should label it in favor of the majority.
or·gan·ic ôrˈɡanik / _adjective_
adjective: organic
1. *of, relating to*, or derived from living matter. JIC we forgot.


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## Pattahabi (Oct 16, 2014)

AllenHaze said:


> Yes, I've purchased big bloom and super thrive in the past. If you must know, I've only bought them once each over a year ago. You know, you get drawn into the hype. In the context of a perfectly sustained, living soil, FFOF, because of it's not so organic ingredients (in limited ratios) may be an issue - at least until they have been flushed out or broken down. Now, in the context of _general_ _organic gardening_, ffof with its primarily organic composition would fit better in the "organics" section then in the "hydro" section. I mean if it's 99% "organic" I think we should label it in favor of the majority.
> or·gan·ic ôrˈɡanik / _adjective_
> adjective: organic
> 1. *of, relating to*, or derived from living matter. JIC we forgot.


So, if that 1% is glyphosate, you're ok with that? You can't fix stupid...

_*Superthrive*

When Oregon finally banned Superthrive many of the secret ingredients were identified and it confirmed what many already believed (already knew) that it was basically Naphthalene acetic acid (NAA) which is what got this product banned in the first place, chelated Iron and Vitamin B-1. You can’t hide the smell on this one.
_
P-


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## radicaldank42 (Nov 1, 2014)

fox farm isn't organic. its natural smart. not truly organic.


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## DonTesla (Nov 29, 2014)

The world is a tricky, sneaky place, full of deception and illusion.. 

It's up to us to slice through the lies and bullish*t, and expose the manipulation

Keep it up!


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## TRK (Jan 11, 2015)

whitey78 said:


> I usually add about a tbs of lime per gallon of soil mix, I've never used hi-cal, I use dolomite or something similar to dolomite.... Also, I dont use just ocean forest, I mix it with happy frog in a bag to bag ratio.....I am having a brain fart so I cant figure out the measurements in quarts but I usually add about 6 cups of EWC's to a bag of soil, more is usually not better but with EWC's its not gonna hurt unless you go way overboard..... I think the mix of ocean forest which is coir based and the happy frog which is peat based gives an overall better base than either of them alone..... good job on the perlite as well, definitely need that, again not able to picture the amounts but realize that the more you add the more often you are going to water, you need some but not too much...... rice hulls are a good alternative. Dont go too crazy with the glacial rock dust, I use azomite instead of that and it can easily cause salt build up if you use too much..... I add a 1/2 cup of azomite to a batch of soil that contains 8 bags of soil (supersoil)..... so be careful with that stuff....


Sorry to trouble you Whitey but I was reading up and saw you'd had some personal experience in creating Supersoil / TLO type mixes. So thought I'd run something by you at the risk of being pushy. I recently posted a mix on another thread, which struggled to gain enough attention, and which has since been amended anyway. I reside in Switzerland so obviously all branding such as Roots and FFOF are unavailable to me. Here is the proposed mix: 

5 L / 7 LBS
Plagron Bio-Supermix (1.2-1.6-0.35)... Contains feather meal, bone meal, Peruvian and Indo Guanos, Rock Phosphate, Maerl, Bentonite, Basalt, Kelp Meal, Lava Meal, Bacteria and Fungal. (Don't say it please; I already feel dirty using a large-company pre-mix, but some of these ingredients are SO damn hard to come by where I'm at in Switzerland, and the cost of transporting loads of single bags internationally, I just couldn't bring myself to do it)

2.2 L / 5 LBS
Plagron Bat Guano (3-15-4)... Stimulates bio-life.

50 L / 60 LBS
Plagron Mega Worm EWC... (100% castings from Dendrobena Veneta) mixed with Bio-Bizz EWC. Rich in bio-life and stimulates more of it.

110 L / 4.6 cu.ft.
Oekohum Bio Univeral Earth... Contains no peat, humus from greengoods and bark, coconut fibre, wood fibre, pumice with bio-fert from horn and semolina. pH of substrate 6.3,range 5.9-6.7; EC 1.9-2.0, 20% organic substances

70 L / 2.5 cu.ft.
Peltracom 307 Professional Substrate... VERY EXPENSIVE pH stabilized pure peat and perlite mix. EC 0.0 pH 6.0

10 L / 0.35 cu.ft.
Oekohum Cacao Gold (2.7-0.7-3 with 0.4 Mg)... A pure cacao shell mulch of sorts with much heavier mid-size chips of cacao husk, a waste product from the chocolate industry, and not sure if I can even use it( ie. too salty maybe, IDK)

50 L / 1.7 cu.ft.
Oekohum Bio Nutritional Humus (0.5-0.25-0.35 with 0.15 Mg) Rich in bio-life.

10 - 30 L / 0.35 - 1 cu.ft.
Hauert Biorga Composted Manure(0.6-0.3-0.6min through 0.9-0.5-0.9max) 10-15% organic substance from cows and horses, 5-10% from plants. Rich in bio-life. AND YES GUYS I KNOW I MIGHT TRANSMORPH INTO A MAD COW IF I USE THIS... Advice anyone?

50 L / 1.7 cu.ft.
Perlite

20 L / 0.7 cu.ft.
Hydroleca / expanded clay, smashed into more irregular bits with a hammer in a bedsheet

0.5 KG / 1.1 LBS 
Guano Kalong GKOrganics Palm Ash (0-3-14) Goes a long way to replacing PK13/14, particularly so when made into tea with guano; so says GK Organics, which they obviously would, as they reckon it's a bloom booster when mixed with their guano

200 G / 0.4 LBS 
PhytoGreen HumusWP ( humic preparationwith 85% immediately available humic and fulvic acids) Seriously good shit

200 G / 0.4 LBS (Or however much it takes to bring pH to correct-ish levels without going too bananas)
Crystal Top Calolite 30Cal3Mg+Fe ( It's just a very stabilised form of Dolomite with added iron I believe also on the expensive side for what it is but you don't need huge amounts and it is cannabis-specific and locked in a stability matrix to make the effect very fast-acting but long-lasting at the same time.

This will be heavily mixed then impregnated with some AN Piranha and Voodoo Juice I had round the house, along with a tea made from EWC, guano, beer ( I shit you not, the yeast and enzymes apparently crazy good for the beastieherd, but IDK), and sucanat OR mollasses until MOIST then turned heavily again and put to bed for thirty days, or as long as my smaller pots will hold my girls back comfortably but not less than 2-3 weeks. Vic of the BCGA's Super recipe only calls for a 2 week sleep, but again IDK. 

Then this'll be layered at half full with a normal bag soil fill-up on the day of transplant.

Am I on the right track dude? I'd think you'd know what you're talking about as obviously you've had some experience with Super-type mixes first hand, and can I be a pain in the ass and just ask you to point out anything dead wrong proportion-wise with the mix? Like, does anything jump right out at you immediately with a voluminous 'WTF!? That's way too hot!' Any guidance you could offer would be greatly appreciated mate, even if it's just a link or two or someone authoritative to discuss my concerns with . My motivations for bothering with all this are discussed at great length in my other recent posts...

Thanks Dude and Thanks Everyone Else In Advance


----------



## whitey78 (Jan 12, 2015)

TRK said:


> Sorry to trouble you Whitey but I was reading up and saw you'd had some personal experience in creating Supersoil / TLO type mixes. So thought I'd run something by you at the risk of being pushy. I recently posted a mix on another thread, which struggled to gain enough attention, and which has since been amended anyway. I reside in Switzerland so obviously all branding such as Roots and FFOF are unavailable to me. Here is the proposed mix:
> 
> 5 L / 7 LBS
> Plagron Bio-Supermix (1.2-1.6-0.35)... Contains feather meal, bone meal, Peruvian and Indo Guanos, Rock Phosphate, Maerl, Bentonite, Basalt, Kelp Meal, Lava Meal, Bacteria and Fungal. (Don't say it please; I already feel dirty using a large-company pre-mix, but some of these ingredients are SO damn hard to come by where I'm at in Switzerland, and the cost of transporting loads of single bags internationally, I just couldn't bring myself to do it)
> ...



Nothing at all jumps out at me and says "noooooo....dont..."... I think you should mix it up as you planned or in a smaller batch... and try it... As long as you cook it/compost it right and make sure the PH of the soil is in check before putting plants in it... you'll be alright... What myself and no one else other than a certified "soil-ologist" which I am not in the least; can say is that its going to work good or not... You sound like you put some effort and educated yourself before purchasing some expensive stuff so try it... If you put an established plant in it and it sizzles.... you know its too hot... If its not enough.... Well lets just say I dont think its going to be too light of a mix... But my only real thought of warning is to watch your N input... You need a slow release N like feather meal and a fast release like blood meal or high N guano.... Blood meal and feather meal is what I use but I understand your situation... 

This is a trial and error business.. IF you do find its too hot; add some bagged mix too cool it down.. just make sure you try it on a heavy feeder before cutting it with a bagged mix or coco... Also I try to stay away from peat mixes these days because I recycle my soil and peat is not good for recycling soil...


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## TRK (Jan 12, 2015)

whitey78 said:


> Nothing at all jumps out at me and says "noooooo....dont..."... I think you should mix it up as you planned or in a smaller batch... and try it... As long as you cook it/compost it right and make sure the PH of the soil is in check before putting plants in it... you'll be alright... What myself and no one else other than a certified "soil-ologist" which I am not in the least; can say is that its going to work good or not... You sound like you put some effort and educated yourself before purchasing some expensive stuff so try it... If you put an established plant in it and it sizzles.... you know its too hot... If its not enough.... Well lets just say I dont think its going to be too light of a mix... But my only real thought of warning is to watch your N input... You need a slow release N like feather meal and a fast release like blood meal or high N guano.... Blood meal and feather meal is what I use but I understand your situation...
> 
> This is a trial and error business.. IF you do find its too hot; add some bagged mix too cool it down.. just make sure you try it on a heavy feeder before cutting it with a bagged mix or coco... Also I try to stay away from peat mixes these days because I recycle my soil and peat is not good for recycling soil...


Cool mate I went ahead and mixed it today before I got to read your post but thanks so much for getting back to me anyway eh. It was adapted during procedure and ended up looking more like this: 

100 L Bio Soil
70 L Peltracom Peat
50 L Humus
40 L Perlite
25 L Plagron EWC
20 L LECA 
20 L Composted Manure
5 L (or about 3.2kg) Plagron Supermix
3 L Cacao
2.75 L (or about 1.7kg) Plagron Bat Guano
240 g Calolite

Another 25 - 45 litres of BioBizz EWC will be added tomorrow when it arrives in the post with the other un-added goodies listed in previous post and it will be remixed quickly, then remoistened with a little tea made from some of the HumusWP, EWC, Guano, a touch of citric and some sugar carbs (mollasses or sucanat; depends what I can track down). The Palm Ash will be saved for tea or top dressing, unless you reckon it should just go in too, but the cacao is high on the K side for how much went in, (just not as readily released and more slowly available I reckon). Also with where the mix is now I'll be erring on the side of a tiny tad more caution, cause giving them more nutrition via tea or whatever down the road is far less trouble than having to pull them; which would be just SO fucking stressful for them... Not to mention me. It feels awesome to be teaching myself something new again with the help of the Forumworld and I'm highly excited for the month cook to be up so we can progress and get a feel for this organic lark. Vic's supersoil recipe only calls for two weeks, and looks like a highly similar early base version of the Sub's (NOT saying Sub didn't pioneer it; just saying for the sake of a footnote), but I reckon the longer the better, no?

Thanks so much for your help mate
Nice one


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## HapaHaole (Jan 13, 2015)

Sincerely420 said:


> Lets say something like that...BUT all the amendments you buy will last for a few grows. Atleast 4-5 grows.
> With those amendments you make ACTs, which are basically like making your own bottled nutes.
> 
> This is the link to my local shop and what I got and what it cost:
> ...


Aloha Brah~
I know YOU know how tiring it can be to try and source [all] the amendments I need to make a better soil, so thank you for the links (the first one takes care of all my needs, seriously).
Most places around here are hydro-oriented and couldn't tell you what prilled dolomite is or wtf glacial rock might be used for. 
Thanks for the knowledge.


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## HapaHaole (Jan 16, 2015)

radicaldank42 said:


> fox farm isn't organic. its natural smart. not truly organic.


You know I think it use to be, or it use to have it written on there some place. Just yesterday as I was needing to transplant my babies I noticed the word "Organic" appears no where on the bag.
40+ something billion dollars in annual organic sales... they're gonna put the word Organic ALL over the bag if it were. So... 'ROOTS Organics' it is. Thanks for calling them out.


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## radicaldank42 (Jan 16, 2015)

lol youre welcome and that's what I saw but i work at a hydro store as well as a few others most likely and we had smaller bags of the ocean forest that said it was organic and the newer bags just say natural smarts. they just half ass everything. and roots organics is the fucking shit man but i mix in a bag of their coco coir to the bag of potting soil. also roots organics actually has a nutrient line that works!!! but i don't use the veg nor bloom only the additives,


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## jwsantokin (Jan 21, 2015)

I am currently setting up a 2x4 tent and trying to decide on which soil to use. I really like the whole ROLS practice, but I just don't have the space to mix and cook. I would like to stay as organic as possible. I plan on running a cover crop and using teas instead of bottled nuts. So which organic bagged soil would you recommend? I'm not opposed to mixing a couple bags together like described above with the coco coir and potting soil, just don't have the space and resources to mix a big batch of my own. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciate, thanks!


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## DonTesla (Jan 21, 2015)

jwsantokin said:


> I am currently setting up a 2x4 tent and trying to decide on which soil to use. I really like the whole ROLS practice, but I just don't have the space to mix and cook. I would like to stay as organic as possible. I plan on running a cover crop and using teas instead of bottled nuts. So which organic bagged soil would you recommend? I'm not opposed to mixing a couple bags together like described above with the coco coir and potting soil, just don't have the space and resources to mix a big batch of my own. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciate, thanks!


You can mix up 3 cubic ft batches(85L) no sweat in strong box totes.. Then stack em, even stand on em haha. No tarps or pile needed. Just make sure you get at least 100L totes so you can mix. I have almost noo space but 3 different kinds of soil going and a worm farm, pullin it all off. Adding just water could not be more beautiful. With the odd tea you be laughing. In short, GO ORGANIC!! Ten week sativas water only, no sweat with a good living supersoil

@DonPetro has simple recipes, depending on what you got we can help you. Here's a nice simple example of one of our 5 recent recipes..

Thinking of trying a real simple soil mix using what i have on hand focusing on CEC.
Base:
50% coir
25% cattle manure
15% fresh worm castings
10% small nugget perlite
Amendments per cu.ft:
1/2 cup alfalfa meal
1/2 cup kelp meal
1/2 cup neem meal
1 cup greensand
1 cup rock phosphate
3 cups zeolite
If anyone is looking for diversity in their mineral arsenal look for a product called EcoTraction. Its 100% natural volcanic zeolite.


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## the aparition (Jan 22, 2015)

I know FFOF is still not "organic" but I still use it and love it. I am having a really good grow mixing FFOF, FFPM, and FFLW with added big & chunky perlite. Recently an article on HighTimes called "Sustainable Sativa" had organic recipes for teas and other stuff and FFOF was recommended as the base soil by an award winning grower.

If it is good enough for an award winner it is good enough for me! 

"The eco-friendly growing practices at Santa Cruz Mountain Naturals (profiled in the March 2015 issue of HIGH TIMES) have produced Cannabis Cup-winning marijuana. Learn all-organic recipes for compost teas, extracts and all-natural pest control from Santa Cruz Mountain Naturals’ San Lorenzo Shaman, cultivator of the award-winning Cracker Jack. "


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## TRK (Jan 23, 2015)

the aparition said:


> I know FFOF is still not "organic" but I still use it and love it. I am having a really good grow mixing FFOF, FFPM, and FFLW with added big & chunky perlite. Recently an article on HighTimes called "Sustainable Sativa" had organic recipes for teas and other stuff and FFOF was recommended as the base soil by an award winning grower.
> 
> If it is good enough for an award winner it is good enough for me!
> 
> "The eco-friendly growing practices at Santa Cruz Mountain Naturals (profiled in the March 2015 issue of HIGH TIMES) have produced Cannabis Cup-winning marijuana. Learn all-organic recipes for compost teas, extracts and all-natural pest control from Santa Cruz Mountain Naturals’ San Lorenzo Shaman, cultivator of the award-winning Cracker Jack. "


Having said that, Subcool himself says that FFOF is 'known for burning plants and having the wrong ratio of nutrients' he also goes on to say that he feels it would suffice much better if mixed with something like sunshine #4. To be honest I can't state any of this from personal experience because in Europe all these brands simply don't exist. Have heard a LOT of bad shit about FFOF I must say...

Just my two cents...

Nice one...


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## radicaldank42 (Jan 23, 2015)

finally someone else!!!!! and I would mix it with a coco coir mix rather then sunshine due to it being to muddy in my opinion. tried it once and killed everythuing. was mad as fuck, lost a good clone of my unknown lemon skunk hybrid. and cracker jack. I have never heard of cracker jack. whats that..


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## the aparition (Jan 25, 2015)

radicaldank42 said:


> finally someone else!!!!! and I would mix it with a coco coir mix rather then sunshine due to it being to muddy in my opinion. tried it once and killed everythuing. was mad as fuck, lost a good clone of my unknown lemon skunk hybrid. and cracker jack. I have never heard of cracker jack. whats that..


Check out the article on HighTimes; guess Cracker Jack was a big winner in a previous Cannabis Cup.

So far having a great grow with the soil mix mentioned (FFOF, FFPM, & FFLW + dolomite lime, perlite) above and supplementing with AN's Organic line + ProTekt. Maybe use the Iguana Juice every other feed but have been using the other stuff with good results so far; BCBD Girl Scout Cookies and CC Green Crack.


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## Kind Sir (Feb 7, 2015)

I am getting the trio of soils fox farm has..I saw youse after watering it down you let it sit for a month. I wanted to add some stuff to a light soil but is waiting necessary?


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## the aparition (Feb 8, 2015)

Kind Sir said:


> I am getting the trio of soils fox farm has..I saw youse after watering it down you let it sit for a month. I wanted to add some stuff to a light soil but is waiting necessary?


I'm not sure but I have noticed my first mix has broke down even further so the longer you can wait the better but I don't think it is necessary.


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## radicaldank42 (Feb 13, 2015)

you can actually amend then transplant and you can actually time how long till the nutrients are available and till then just blast them with some heavy worm castings and stuff and itll be fine and then itll also help break the nutrient s down faster.


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## Pattahabi (Feb 13, 2015)

Mmmm Mmmm... Feather meal and blood meal, gotta love the slaughter house byproducts! So are those organic birds and cows? I bet not. How about cutting a cow open and let them bleed on your soil? I mean fresh is better right?

Subtool should not be allowed to tell people how to grow. I mean seriously, have you listened to this guy talk? 

P-


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## Yodaweed (Mar 9, 2015)

Can we please move this to the hydro section Fox Farm Ocean Forest is not organic and this entire topic should be in the hydro drain to waste section.


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## Joedank (Mar 11, 2015)

@subcool did you make up the name SUPER SOIL? that was @Vichigh 's name was it not??


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## radicaldank42 (Mar 13, 2015)

but what you do is take is recipe and eliminate the blood meals and feather meals and shit and incorporate you're own recipe. that's what ive been doing but now ive been eliminating amendments and narrowed it down to only a few things rather a few too many


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## HazyDays65 (Mar 18, 2015)

Yodaweed said:


> Can we please move this to the hydro section Fox Farm Ocean Forest is not organic and this entire topic should be in the hydro drain to waste section.


What's in FFOF that's not organic? Thanks


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## Kind Sir (Mar 18, 2015)

I got free sample of the whole line of nectar of the gods, any experi3nce with this?


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## Yodaweed (Mar 18, 2015)

HazyDays65 said:


> What's in FFOF that's not organic? Thanks


They lost their organic certification I believe it was because of the urea in their soil is not organic but I could be wrong.


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## Shed&Breakfest (Mar 20, 2015)

Pattahabi said:


> Why is this thread even still here?
> 
> I thought we had well established FFOF is not organic? Can we move this over to the hydro section?
> 
> ...


thanks for clogging up the thread with utter useless info... the fact is the thread is here... get over it... now rather then finding the info i need i have to waste my time scrolling through your endless comments of 'this stuff isn't organic' jesus fucking christ....

the amount of utter shit on this site can be soooo fucking annoying... every thread is like this too... rather then getting to the facts is just a endless tirade of people bickering about nothing at all

*******************

i just wanna know what is a GOOD ph number to have for the run off Fox farm? im getting a bit over 6.01 but can't find any info from anyone else on here without reading the whole blog.

*****************


and after reading 5 pages of 'this isn't organic' ive had enough of looking so if someone who knows the answer could jsut tell me that'd be great... its a shame these threads have to get ruined by trolls and people who have nothing useful to add to the convo... people just love to hear them selves talk


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## Kind Sir (Mar 20, 2015)

Solid post. True , I have ph issue as well. Runoff was 1000+ppm and in the 4s for ph. Id like to mix something to die it down.


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## Pattahabi (Mar 20, 2015)

Shed&Breakfest said:


> thanks for clogging up the thread with utter useless info... the fact is the thread is here... get over it... now rather then finding the info i need i have to waste my time scrolling through your endless comments of 'this stuff isn't organic' jesus fucking christ....
> 
> the amount of utter shit on this site can be soooo fucking annoying... every thread is like this too... rather then getting to the facts is just a endless tirade of people bickering about nothing at all
> 
> ...


You mad?


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## Shed&Breakfest (Mar 20, 2015)

Pattahabi said:


> You mad?


lmfao yes, im sick of the world with people like you in it... if you really are asking 

god... i love when i remeber to use the ignore button.... <3 praise jesus...lmfao


-----
*and on a side note... and in general*

and another thing with this site... too many people on here who think they are your best friends and shit on each other... i don't use this site for social reason, and even if i did im not the type of person to rag on even my REAL friends, so im sure as hell not gunna put up with some no body on the internet pulling that immature high school shit, sorry your life is so boring you need to troll the internet for 'fun' sounds pretty pathetic to me but hey w/e... that what most the internet has become... and w/e but this site should stick to the facts... as in data, numbers, actual useful info... thats great that you're aware FFOF isn't organic but i don't really care in the first place, i just came looking for other people's grow advice, as in what actually occurred in the grow, not info that i can look up on the company site if i really wanted to know if was organic or not


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## Shed&Breakfest (Mar 20, 2015)

Kind Sir said:


> Solid post. True , I have ph issue as well. Runoff was 1000+ppm and in the 4s for ph. Id like to mix something to die it down.


deff want dolomite lime for that, but i haven't been able to get a solid idea as to how much for one little plant... most people say 1 cup for 5 gals of soil but i am not mixing that much.


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## Pattahabi (Mar 20, 2015)

Shed&Breakfest said:


> deff want dolomite lime for that, but i haven't been able to get a solid idea as to how much for one little plant... most people say 1 cup for 5 gals of soil but i am not mixing that much.









I think when you hit 1200 ppm your organic plants will spontaneously combust. At least that's what I heard anyway. However, if you check the runoff in time, there may still be time for open heart surgery... or was it chemotherapy? This agriculture stuff is so confusing...

P-


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## Kind Sir (Mar 20, 2015)

Please be respectful on here, trying to figure what Im doing!! ( :
Ill buy a small bag locally, can you use water and ph down? Idk why i even bought that stuff


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## Pattahabi (Mar 21, 2015)

Kind Sir said:


> Please be respectful on here, trying to figure what Im doing!! ( :
> Ill buy a small bag locally, can you use water and ph down? Idk why i even bought that stuff


The general rule of liming is 1c per cu ft (7.5 gallons) of NON limed peat moss. Meaning if you are using promix, there is no need to lime again. If you are using lakeland or premier peat, you will need to add calcium carbonate. I prefer oyster shell over dolo lime, but both can work. It would also be a good idea to get a little gypsum flour in your soil. 1/2c per cu ft of base soil mix.

P-


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## Kind Sir (Mar 21, 2015)

Solid info brotha! I appreciate it, ocean forest starts with oyster shells so must be solid. ITs a good just in case item, I shouldve haad already.when I water or feed (i dont feed yet)arnt I supposed to use ph up ( I hwve orange GH PH UP/DOWN) and get it between 6.5-6.8?


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## Pattahabi (Mar 21, 2015)

Kind Sir said:


> Solid info brotha! I appreciate it, ocean forest starts with oyster shells so must be solid. ITs a good just in case item, I shouldve haad already.when I water or feed (i dont feed yet)arnt I supposed to use ph up ( I hwve orange GH PH UP/DOWN) and get it between 6.5-6.8?


Imo you do not pH an organic grow. The soil microbes and plant exudes will take care of this for you as long as your mix is somewhere in the ballpark. I wouldn't add too much lime as this will cause problems also. What are you planning to 'feed'?

P-


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## GHOPZZ (Mar 21, 2015)

My usual mix is 2 to 1 ratio of Pro-Mix BX to Ocean Forest with extra perlite. I usually just water for three weeks then start with 15ml to gallon of SPT, after 2 weeks of that I start my Veg nutes from BMO with occasionally waters with molasses. My flowering is also with BMO and later weeks with molasses and alaskan morabloom. My end result is good but looking to improve in regards to taste, smell yield. I veg with t5's on a 24hr cycle and flower with HPS 12/12. Im open to sugestions on nutes replacements adding more to soil such as worm castings? whats everyones thoughts?


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## Shed&Breakfest (Mar 21, 2015)

Kind Sir said:


> Solid info brotha! I appreciate it, ocean forest starts with oyster shells so must be solid. ITs a good just in case item, I shouldve haad already.when I water or feed (i dont feed yet)arnt I supposed to use ph up ( I hwve orange GH PH UP/DOWN) and get it between 6.5-6.8?


6.5-6.8 is like perfect!!! i wish i had those numbers, i wouldn't try to change the soil ph with the acid. you can change the water if your water is hard but even then i'd recommend a RO filter instead. but to each his own


----

***another side note... gotta love it when you call people out and thier 'troll' buddies try to come to the rescue, too bad for them the auto ignore is in full effect... if you want to be respected don't troll... its that simple... i pay zero attention to trolls


i miss the days when the moderators actually banned people for causing a scene. now a days this place looks more like reddit then RIU. in fact i went to the micro grow page on reddit and it seemed more helpful and less trolly then this place... so that is saying alot

considering reddit is the mecca of trolls


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## Pattahabi (Mar 21, 2015)

Shed&Breakfest said:


> 6.5-6.8 is like perfect!!! i wish i had those numbers, i wouldn't try to change the soil ph with the acid. you can change the water if your water is hard but even then i'd recommend a RO filter instead. but to each his own
> 
> 
> ----
> ...


Ban people for answering the question you didn't know? Lol. Who quoted who first and started talking smack?

Sniffle, sniffle, sob...



P-


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## Kind Sir (Mar 21, 2015)

Im not doing organic patta, I have house and garden soil A + B, root excelurator, drip clean, top booster. 
I think my bigger plants need feeding or something the leaves are yellowing at bottom bad. I have a grow journal, not much response Id really appreciate a quick look..


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## GHOPZZ (Mar 22, 2015)

Can someone take a look atmy situation and give some feedback


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## radicaldank42 (Mar 27, 2015)

well honestly I have had better respopnses to a lower ph. my soils ph is between 5.5-6 nothing higher. plsus if youre soil is inoculated enough the plant will change the soils ph by its self. and that's when you just don't take any notice to those people what so ever.


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## cityworker415 (Apr 14, 2015)

Shed&Breakfest said:


> thanks for clogging up the thread with utter useless info... the fact is the thread is here... get over it... now rather then finding the info i need i have to waste my time scrolling through your endless comments of 'this stuff isn't organic' jesus fucking christ....
> 
> the amount of utter shit on this site can be soooo fucking annoying... every thread is like this too... rather then getting to the facts is just a endless tirade of people bickering about nothing at all
> 
> ...


Cup o lime to ffof per 5gal. Fixed my drift

Sent from my SM-G900V using Rollitup mobile app


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## cityworker415 (Apr 14, 2015)

Shed&Breakfest said:


> deff want dolomite lime for that, but i haven't been able to get a solid idea as to how much for one little plant... most people say 1 cup for 5 gals of soil but i am not mixing that much.


Works great every time 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Rollitup mobile app


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## OneStonedPony (Apr 20, 2015)

Happy 4/20 peps, BMO is having a 4/20 Sale. I knew these dudes didn't just make there ferts for growing tomatoes. 25 % off everything today. Grabbed some SPT, man does that stuff make my garden happy. 
...
http://stores.ebay.com/Blue-Mountain-Organics 
...


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## ANK (Apr 25, 2015)

Sincerely420 said:


> Hey no prob Mystic!
> i know a lot of ppl use the super soil on here too lol but I can't be arsed.
> I'm getting great results from my first mix lad, so I know this second one will be a killer and even better!
> *The best part is that it's a water only and AACTs from time to time mix!*
> ...


When people say cook does that mean you have to leave it outside to cook in the sun or can I just fill my pots, water, and stick in the corner of my grow room, ive used ffof for years all on its own straight from bag and would like to try this but only if I can do it inside my room, also is it only 1 time that you water it and then just let em dry out for weeks on end till you put your plants in or hows that work


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## mwooten102 (Apr 30, 2015)

Mycorrhiza? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Rollitup mobile app


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## Rayne (May 27, 2015)

ANK said:


> When people say cook does that mean you have to leave it outside to cook in the sun or can I just fill my pots, water, and stick in the corner of my grow room, ive used ffof for years all on its own straight from bag and would like to try this but only if I can do it inside my room, also is it only 1 time that you water it and then just let em dry out for weeks on end till you put your plants in or hows that work


Generally speaking the term "Cook," when referring to a super soil mix, means to leave it outside with cover over it, water, and mix/turn semi-regularly.


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## KushyKari (Jun 16, 2015)

I use fox farms ocean forest.no mix. No nutes in veg except now I'm adding seaweed to everything veg and flower. Foliage and in soil. In flower I don't use many nutes either. My strain is touchy so I go easy. 
Years ago I used to mix it with perlite and add bat guano, but just the soil alone has all that good ish in it. I've done the cocoa mixed my own got creative, but I stick with ffof because it makes the buds flavor sooooooo much better!! In my opinion at least


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## drekoushranada (Jun 20, 2015)

mwooten102 said:


> Mycorrhiza?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Rollitup mobile app


I would like to know this also. I have some soil doing the same thing.


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## WeedyBlooDShoT (Jun 23, 2015)

What should be my unit %. With a 12qt bag of FFOF. 8qt bag of perlite and a 8qt bag of peat moss?
Thank you-- also i save the peat moss for when i start to flower right?? and if i baught a bag of EWC when and how much to use as well..


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## Whodatt (Nov 7, 2015)

I use ffof and I add perlite and some organic dry fertilizer. Always works great for me.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 5, 2015)

Whodatt said:


> I use ffof and I add perlite and some organic dry fertilizer. Always works great for me.


I am going start to finish, with ffof and dry organic fert happy frog bloom organic, one cup of lime dolomite, mix it in wheelbarrow, now only tap water start to finish


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## the aparition (Dec 5, 2015)

Whodatt said:


> I use ffof and I add perlite and some organic dry fertilizer. Always works great for me.


What strain is this? Looks great!


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## Whodatt (Dec 6, 2015)

the aparition said:


> What strain is this? Looks great!


Thanks! That was th seeds critical hog.


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## Whodatt (Dec 6, 2015)

the aparition said:


> What strain is this? Looks great!


Thanks. Th seeds critical hog.


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## Nu-Be (Mar 13, 2016)

I realize this thread is pretty dead, but it did inspire me to buy $200 worth of amendments to start making my own ROLS for both houseplants and some special plants. Thanks, RIU.   

Two weeks after mixing it, it's cooking down to a delicious scent - perfect humus earthiness. I used regular metro tap water, after letting it sit for a couple hours.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 19, 2016)

It's alive


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## Whodatt (Mar 26, 2016)

Still kicking! I love ffof. Plants are loving it too. Mk ultra-the real g-13,and bubblegum.


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## Michael Huntherz (Mar 29, 2016)

Pattahabi said:


> Mmmm Mmmm... Feather meal and blood meal, gotta love the slaughter house byproducts! So are those organic birds and cows? I bet not. How about cutting a cow open and let them bleed on your soil? I mean fresh is better right?
> 
> Subtool should not be allowed to tell people how to grow. I mean seriously, have you listened to this guy talk?
> 
> P-


Are you saying that when I buy "Organic" blood and bone meal from Espoma that the "organic" label is a lie?

Why isn't someone suing them, if that's the case? Are you telling me my organic soil mix isn't organic? I'm curious how strong your background in organic chemistry is? If it was extensive you might feel less fanatical, I think. I'm not an organic chemist, but I've slept with more than one, and that has to count for something.

If we can't believe these labels whatsoever then do we have to start our organic agriculture from scratch? Can I start an organic chicken coop from eggs that weren't marked organic? If not, when is it OK to start calling it organic? Who is the authority, you? How about a farmer out in places so rural that you @Pattahabi might not be able to imagine, if I go out there and this 80-year old man who is working a family farm that has been around for 150 years, using no pesticides, and I buy some chickens from him, are they organic or not?

At a certain point we have to make a leap of faith, don't we? Logically, epistemologically, the answer is yes.

Perhaps instead of being an absolutist on behalf of all humankind you could calmly make a note about it? It feels to me like you're shouting people down over tiny things that are not entirely their fault, responsibility, or mistake to correct.



Tim Fox said:


> I am going start to finish, with ffof and dry organic fert happy frog bloom organic, one cup of lime dolomite, mix it in wheelbarrow, now only tap water start to finish


Hi Tim! I'm doing something very similar with Black Gold Natural and Organic, it says so right there on the bag! I wonder if it is more-or-less "true" organic compared to FFOF, or if Black Gold could afford to bribe the official when FF could not? I think next time I'll use FFOF. The best results I've had so far (personal-only micro-grow) were when I used it as a base. It depends how well I do with the Black Gold.

Here's my stupid simple recipe, in case anyone cares. I might top-dress with a low-nitrogen fert during flower, depending how she looks. I think this mix will actually get me through a grow just fine.
per cubic foot of base
add the following
- 7.5 lbs. of Organic Earthworm Castings (EWC)
- 1 cup Espoma Bio-Tone Starter
- 1 cup Espoma Plant-Tone
- 1/4 cup Dolomite Lime (most stuff I use is limed already, I add this much anyway, would double it if not already buffered)
- 1/3 cup Azomite
- 8 quarts (aka 2 dry gallons or 1/3 cubic foot) chunky 'organic' Perlite.
- water with 1 gallon of tap water, after dissolving in it a half-tablespoon of Epsom Salt
_(Oh no, am I no longer Organic? Heavens to Betsy!)_
*Mix regularly and let cook for a month, done.*

I guess I probably shouldn't come to the organic forum and give organic fanatics a raft of shit, huh? I'll just lurk here again now for a while.

One Love.
/wall-of-text-level-9


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## Chef420 (Apr 11, 2016)

Hi there;
Quick question but I don't want to hijack this thread.
The "super" soil (can I call them that?) recipes above, do they have to be amended later on in the grow?
I ask because I have a 2x4 tent and I live in a condo. I have a small balcony and enough room for a trash can. I have no room to brew teas and have bubbling stuff.
Are there instant teas available? What would I need to purchase?
Thanks so much in advance.
One more thing: I bought Gaia Green 4-4-4 at my local hydro store. It has most of the amendments as the super soils but in a granular form that you work into the soil and it time releases. I kind of like that idea.
Is this a good method ? I
Tried it on some hibiscus and me hey seem to like it.


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## demarko (Apr 28, 2016)

I have a half used bag of ocean forest stored in a tote with a lid in my garage. Every time I go into the bag I feel moisture like the soil is sweating and I can see the soil sticking to the bag in moist spots.... is this normal? Is it cooking lol I didnt add anything


@chief420 I have been also looking into teas and I found a small brewer for $62.95 that can fit in any size room


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## Spicehazy (May 8, 2016)

TheNaturalist said:


> 5 parts ffof
> 2 parts perlite (of the large grain variety)
> 1 part ewc
> a sprinkle of bat guano
> ...


Which Bat Guano?


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## Mad Farmer DeeJ (May 25, 2016)

just buy a bag of 707. Done. if you want to add something save yourself the time and get uprising foundation from roots.. stuff is the shit.


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## Woyaboy (May 31, 2016)

intenseneal said:


> I use FFOF and Happy Frog straight out of the bag. Green lush happy plants and no need to use veg nutes.


You still using this mix for your plants? Does this bring all the way to flower?


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## intenseneal (May 31, 2016)

I have not used FF in a while too hot. I use Happy Frog every grow now. No it will not get u all the way to flower if u vegg for more than 3 weeks you will need to feed veg nutes and i always feed heavy in flower but thas me.


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## j00ster (Jun 3, 2016)

I like using ffof. What i do is i put 2 bags in a wheel barrow, add in 3 cups of down to earth biolive. Add 1/2 bottle of great white. Take 4 cups of oatmeal, blend it up, mix all of it up real well then stick it in a big 40 gallon tote from walmart in my storage rokm next to the hot water tank for 30 days. Once a week ill go in with a spray bottle and hand trowel and mix up the mycos that grows. Aeound day 15 or so i might add another cup of ground oatmeal and a light sprinkle of more great white on the top, spray it down. And let it sit. I havent tested the runoff but i have been harvesting some amazing smoke. I also recycle my soil doing exactly this. Some times i let my last grows sit for the entire current grow. Once a year i throw it all out in my garden for some nice big outdoor in 100 gallon smart pots


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## Woyaboy (Jun 25, 2016)

j00ster said:


> I like using ffof. What i do is i put 2 bags in a wheel barrow, add in 3 cups of down to earth biolive. Add 1/2 bottle of great white. Take 4 cups of oatmeal, blend it up, mix all of it up real well then stick it in a big 40 gallon tote from walmart in my storage rokm next to the hot water tank for 30 days. Once a week ill go in with a spray bottle and hand trowel and mix up the mycos that grows. Aeound day 15 or so i might add another cup of ground oatmeal and a light sprinkle of more great white on the top, spray it down. And let it sit. I havent tested the runoff but i have been harvesting some amazing smoke. I also recycle my soil doing exactly this. Some times i let my last grows sit for the entire current grow. Once a year i throw it all out in my garden for some nice big outdoor in 100 gallon smart pots


My soil mixes never seem to grow the white Mycellium, do you know what's up with that? I have followed soil making down to a T. How wet should this soil be?


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## ugmjfarmer (Jul 3, 2016)

j00ster said:


> I like using ffof. What i do is i put 2 bags in a wheel barrow, add in 3 cups of down to earth biolive. Add 1/2 bottle of great white. Take 4 cups of oatmeal, blend it up, mix all of it up real well then stick it in a big 40 gallon tote from walmart in my storage rokm next to the hot water tank for 30 days. Once a week ill go in with a spray bottle and hand trowel and mix up the mycos that grows. Aeound day 15 or so i might add another cup of ground oatmeal and a light sprinkle of more great white on the top, spray it down. And let it sit. I havent tested the runoff but i have been harvesting some amazing smoke. I also recycle my soil doing exactly this. Some times i let my last grows sit for the entire current grow. Once a year i throw it all out in my garden for some nice big outdoor in 100 gallon smart pots


That's legit advice. I do about the same thing with a moonshine mix alteration, and add white rice. 2 month cook, turning it a few times in a 40 gal just like you. The rice always has so much fuzzy stuff all around it.


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## ugmjfarmer (Jul 12, 2016)

Moonshine Mix (Ugmjfarmer modifications):

1 Bag Ocean Forest
1 Bag Planting Mix (red bag)
1 Bag Light Warrior (can be substituted with Sunshine advanced #4)
1 cup Happy Frog Jump start
1 cup Happy Frog Fruit and Flower
10lbs Fishnure
10lbs Worm Castings
3 cups Biopreta/Biochar
2 cups Neem Seed meal
2 cups Neptunes Crabshell
1 cup organic white rice
1 cup Oyster Shell
1/4 cup Dolomite Lime
1/4 cup Gypsum
1/4 cup Rock Phosphate
2.5 gal of Rice Hulls

optional: Chunky Perlite, Seagate Fish Fertilizer (1/2 tsp per gal), 1 cup Bokashi.

Precharge/moisten with 48 hour compost tea brew using 1 cup Fishnute, 1 cup Worm Castings, 5 tbsp Organic Molasses brewed 48-72 hours, rainwater preferred. Enjoy after 60 days, make sure the internal temperature reaches 90F at a minimum.


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## camaro630hp (Jul 27, 2016)

What a great thread


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## camaro630hp (Jul 27, 2016)

ugmjfarmer said:


> Moonshine Mix (Ugmjfarmer modifications):
> 
> 1 Bag Ocean Forest
> 1 Bag Planting Mix (red bag)
> ...


Thanks for taking time out of your day to post what is needed makes it so easy.


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## Dr. Greenthumb2317 (Sep 25, 2016)

I've been using FFOF as well. I use some squid, seaweed, tea, coffee from a local place out here, and a couple other things I add to it. I've been getting some good healthy plants. Last harvest was good. Indoor, organic.


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## tripleD (Oct 14, 2016)

I've always used FFOF soil & FF Nutes (Tiger Bloom, Grow Big, Big Bloom, etc) in the past, but this time around I planted a Nirvana Blue Mystic in FFOF on Sep 22nd & it sprouted on Sept 23rd, and I've only been feeding it a gallon of RO water every 3 days up til now, but I want to start feeding her some of the organics that I bought last year called "general organics GO BOX".... Any feeding schedule suggestions or other advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## Willy_Santos (Dec 1, 2016)

I was wondering if anyone has experience vegging in FFOF and repotting with Happy Frog at the 12/12 flip to prevent a rush to flush out all the N in OF.


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## AutoNorCal (Dec 19, 2016)

Thank you thank you thank you


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## DrCannaPath (Dec 24, 2016)

Wow what an amazing thread with great amount of quality knowledge! 
I am a hydro grower and have been since screwing up all my early newbie runs in soil.
I bought a large bag of ffof and another large bag of FF Coco Loco (anyone with experience using this or mixing it woth FFOF?) And large bag of FF happy frog soil CONDITIONER (anyone uses this in the mix or is it the bappy frog Soil?) I have some tomato and veggies fert by happy frog as well as some higher pk fert specific for flowers also by happy frog that I'll use to amend my soil mix (which I havent figured out yet) in addition to some high n and high p guano and ewc to amend the soil. I acquired some marble and granite dust and some rabbit food (for kelp). I can easily get kelp from the beach and i started making my own compost recently.
Getting excited about getting my hands dirty again and trying out growing organically 
Happy growing, merry christmas and happy holidays yall 
Forgot to mention that i went through it in one day .... Thanks S420 wherever you might be and thank you everyone for your valuable contributions 

Check out my new QuadStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
and my previous TriStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/883569/


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## DrCannaPath (Dec 26, 2016)

Hello ladies and gents and thank you in advance for taking the time to read my post and add your 2 cents! And ideas, thoughts or help are much appreciated 

Soil mix to a total of 2.5cf to be split in 2x 9gal pots for a final transplant right before the flip to 12/12 plus leftover:

1/3 FFOF (peat based). Pic of ingredients
1/3 FF CocoLoco (coco based and nicely amended). Pic of ingredients 
1/3 aeration: (consisting of 1/3 of each: construction sand, happy frog soil conditioner and perlites). This soil mix is coarse-grainy but very airy although with a nice heavy body and structure. (Thoughts on this?)

Mixing all 3 parts together gives me the advantages of both peat and coco from the first and second parts of the mix. Theyre both aerated with perlites out of the bag. Therefore i wanted my additional 1/3 aeration to have sand as part of it. I didnt want to lose too much organic composition in the mix and thus i added 1/3 of the aeration portion of Happy Frog soil conditioner (see pic for ingredients)

Amendments (still haven't been added so please let me know if I should decrease or increase or drop any): 
2 cups rock dust (actually dust acquired from Marble/Granite joint)
2 cups happy frog tomatoes n veggies (pic) 
2 cups happy frog bulb food for higher p/k for flowering (pic)
2 cups ground up rabbit food (for alfalfa+ meal?)
1 cup bat guano high N
1 cup bat guano high P
(Also have happy frog steamed bone meal if needed to be added .... and I can get some algae from a nearby beach and dry it up for kelp meal??)

This mix will be allowed to cook for at least 4 weeks (watered with EWC/Great White tea for a jump start) while we wait for the girls to germinate and veg 

I will put the girls in the final 9gal pots right before I flip to 12/12 and give them a few days to recover any shock. I am hoping for a water only

Any thoughts on the soil mix or amendments or what i am doin are more than welcome and appreciated ... as this is my first organic run and first time playing around with dirt like this and with some background knowledge haha  happy growin yall
P.S: I got thw above right from my grow diary ..... i figured posting the m8x and questions here will yield more views from the experienced organic growers. Thanks again 

Check out my new QuadStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
and my previous TriStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/883569/


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## DrCannaPath (Dec 26, 2016)

I totally forgot that i also have this and may add it to the mix but worried about the acid part. 


Check out my new QuadStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
and my previous TriStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/883569/


----------



## ShLUbY (Jan 25, 2017)

DrCannaPath said:


> I totally forgot that i also have this and may add it to the mix but worried about the acid part.
> 
> 
> Check out my new QuadStrain grow  :
> ...


i just noticed this question. I am a little worried that your mix may be too hot. I think if you just did the happy frog @ 1 cups/cuft and the PK boost @ 1 cups/cuft and the alfalfa @ 1/4-1/2 cup/cuft you would be fine. the rock dust is fine (and could even be doubled) I think you would benefit from a kelp meal as the stuff contains all kinds of beneficial things (vitamins, enzymes, minerals, amino acids, potassium, ect) which all have positive effects on your soil and plants.

Guanos are highly soluble and don't slow release very well, so you can actually overfeed with them because they are so soluble. if you have them and you wanted to use them up, you could brew teas with them. (high N for veg and High P for flower)

also i think some sort of ph buffer would help you a lot too. oyster shell flour @ 1/4-1/2 c per cu. ft. since i know the FFOF has some lime in it, but it's likely not quite enough so a little supplement may benefit you.

wish i woulda saw your post sooner! Good luck with the grow man. Hope it turns out well for you. I think you'll do fine with a water only grow


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## DrCannaPath (Jan 26, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> i just noticed this question. I am a little worried that your mix may be too hot. I think if you just did the happy frog @ 1 cups/cuft and the PK boost @ 1 cups/cuft and the alfalfa @ 1/4-1/2 cup/cuft you would be fine. the rock dust is fine (and could even be doubled) I think you would benefit from a kelp meal as the stuff contains all kinds of beneficial things (vitamins, enzymes, minerals, amino acids, potassium, ect) which all have positive effects on your soil and plants.
> 
> Guanos are highly soluble and don't slow release very well, so you can actually overfeed with them because they are so soluble. if you have them and you wanted to use them up, you could brew teas with them. (high N for veg and High P for flower)
> 
> ...


Thank you very much brother for taking the time to read my post and reply! .... i was worried that my mix would be too hot at first then just went ahead and mixed it up anyway. Now that you mentioned it, i am hoping that the 4 to possibly 6 weeks of letting the soil "cook" will help out in regards to how hot it is. I am also going to wait until almost a week or few days before flipping bwfore i transplant the girls to their final and hotter mix. Hopefully that'll help them not burn. Ill also try to get some kelp from a nearby beach to dry it then use it for top dressing or in teas i know for a fact i wont be able to get anything to help raise the pH but ill try to collect some crushed seashells from the beach and see if I can pulverize it (or can i use it in as course as it is?) thanks bro again for your help. This organic gardening is like all new ocean for this fish and this fish is loving swimming in it 

Check out my new QuadStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
and my previous TriStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/883569/


----------



## ShLUbY (Jan 26, 2017)

DrCannaPath said:


> Thank you very much brother for taking the time to read my post and reply! .... i was worried that my mix would be too hot at first then just went ahead and mixed it up anyway. Now that you mentioned it, i am hoping that the 4 to possibly 6 weeks of letting the soil "cook" will help out in regards to how hot it is. I am also going to wait until almost a week or few days before flipping bwfore i transplant the girls to their final and hotter mix. Hopefully that'll help them not burn. Ill also try to get some kelp from a nearby beach to dry it then use it for top dressing or in teas i know for a fact i wont be able to get anything to help raise the pH but ill try to collect some crushed seashells from the beach and see if I can pulverize it (or can i use it in as course as it is?) thanks bro again for your help. This organic gardening is like all new ocean for this fish and this fish is loving swimming in it
> 
> Check out my new QuadStrain grow  :
> https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
> ...


you're welcome! glad you saw the response! it's always good to ask questions...

the thing about nutrients is they dont expire unless they are used up. so your microbes will consume some but the vast majority will still be in the mix, so letting it sit won't do a lot to "dilute" the mixture. what goes in stays in until it's taken out... you know... just like matter is neither created or destroyed. microbes will consume the nutrients and grow more microbes, but all that nutrition is still in the soil in the bodily forms of the microbes, and the stuff the exude. when the microbes die those nutrients that built their bodily forms are returned back to the soil and new microbes/benes consume those and so on and so on and so on. So basically what i'm saying is your plants pull the majority of nutrients from your soil to build plant matter! 

also i highly suggest waiting 2-3 weeks before flipping when you transplant (depending on container size 3wk is best IMO). you want to give the plants time to spread their roots out in the new pot, so that when you do flip, A) the can drink water faster which means they won't sit in a damp/wet soil between waterings. you gotta remember they can only drink and feed where the roots are so you want the roots to "move into the pot". B) having more roots will allow them to uptake what they need better/faster so when you do flip, they'll be able to take everything they need and really get an explosive start to flowering.

IMO, if you flip a week after transplant, it's just not enough time to let the plant do what it needs to do to "move into the pot".

pulverizing the shells would be best. you create more surface area. which means that more microbes can work on the shell flour. you can topdress the shells and over time they will work their way into the soil via water erosion/leaching. you have some lime in the FFOF so that will work until the shell flour starts to do its thing!

just remember.... more is not always better!!!!


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## DrCannaPath (Jan 26, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> you're welcome! glad you saw the response! it's always good to ask questions...
> 
> the thing about nutrients is they dont expire unless they are used up. so your microbes will consume some but the vast majority will still be in the mix, so letting it sit won't do a lot to "dilute" the mixture. what goes in stays in until it's taken out... you know... just like matter is neither created or destroyed. microbes will consume the nutrients and grow more microbes, but all that nutrition is still in the soil in the bodily forms of the microbes, and the stuff the exude. when the microbes die those nutrients that built their bodily forms are returned back to the soil and new microbes/benes consume those and so on and so on and so on. So basically what i'm saying is your plants pull the majority of nutrients from your soil to build plant matter!
> 
> ...


Thanks brother again for your reply and the additional tips. Alright ill try to let them go for a couple weeks before I flip. But then that means ill have to transplant them into their final pot maybe in a week when i just transplantted them from their 3" germination pots to their i think 8" veg pots 3 days ago. 10 days in this 8"pot is ok beforr i transplant again? The final pots I have are 35L (almost 10 gal). Thanks again brother 

Check out my new QuadStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
and my previous TriStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/883569/


----------



## ShLUbY (Jan 26, 2017)

DrCannaPath said:


> Thanks brother again for your reply and the additional tips. Alright ill try to let them go for a couple weeks before I flip. But then that means ill have to transplant them into their final pot maybe in a week when i just transplantted them from their 3" germination pots to their i think 8" veg pots 3 days ago. 10 days in this 8"pot is ok beforr i transplant again? The final pots I have are 35L (almost 10 gal). Thanks again brother
> 
> Check out my new QuadStrain grow  :
> https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
> ...


generally how i do it is from the cloner to a quart sized pot for a couple weeks so the roots fill it out, then to a 1 gal pot for 2-3 weeks so the roots fill it out, and then to a 7-10 gal for 2-3 weeks (again let roots grow) and then into flower. I know @greasemonkeymann 's process is very similar to mine.

you want to build a good size root-ball before you get them into the bigger container, so i would say if you try and transplant from the 8" to the 10 gal it's just going to fall apart when you remove from the 8" so quickly. just remember.... some things in life are worth waiting for, even though i'm sure you're anxious as all fuck to get some into flower lol. i know i would be!


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## greasemonkeymann (Jan 27, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> generally how i do it is from the cloner to a quart sized pot for a couple weeks so the roots fill it out, then to a 1 gal pot for 2-3 weeks so the roots fill it out, and then to a 7-10 gal for 2-3 weeks (again let roots grow) and then into flower. I know @greasemonkeymann 's process is very similar to mine.
> 
> you want to build a good size root-ball before you get them into the bigger container, so i would say if you try and transplant from the 8" to the 10 gal it's just going to fall apart when you remove from the 8" so quickly. just remember.... some things in life are worth waiting for, even though i'm sure you're anxious as all fuck to get some into flower lol. i know i would be!


damn good advice, another thing worth mentioning is not only is this method the best for minimizing root-shock ( a formed rootball is nearly undisturbed at trans, done correctly)
but the method is also the best for maximizing the soil web, frequent transplants tend to create a more dense rootball, reason being is cannabis is a drought tolerant plant, and it shoots the roots out as far as it can when transplanted, when it does that it tends to NOT fill inside the smaller areas inside the container, rather more on the outside (looking for water, so to speak)


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## DrCannaPath (Jan 27, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> generally how i do it is from the cloner to a quart sized pot for a couple weeks so the roots fill it out, then to a 1 gal pot for 2-3 weeks so the roots fill it out, and then to a 7-10 gal for 2-3 weeks (again let roots grow) and then into flower. I know @greasemonkeymann 's process is very similar to mine.
> 
> you want to build a good size root-ball before you get them into the bigger container, so i would say if you try and transplant from the 8" to the 10 gal it's just going to fall apart when you remove from the 8" so quickly. just remember.... some things in life are worth waiting for, even though i'm sure you're anxious as all fuck to get some into flower lol. i know i would be!





greasemonkeymann said:


> damn good advice, another thing worth mentioning is not only is this method the best for minimizing root-shock ( a formed rootball is nearly undisturbed at trans, done correctly)
> but the method is also the best for maximizing the soil web, frequent transplants tend to create a more dense rootball, reason being is cannabis is a drought tolerant plant, and it shoots the roots out as far as it can when transplanted, when it does that it tends to NOT fill inside the smaller areas inside the container, rather more on the outside (looking for water, so to speak)


Thank you gentlemen for taking the time to help out a fellow grower ... i appreciate all your valuable advice. My axiety with trying to (or having to) send them into flowering by feb 15 is the time constraints I have. I have to go on 2 trips out of the country, once during and once after i harvest (and the trips are 3 weeks long each hah) 
Ill have to check the calendar and see if I can stretch the veg a little longer and flower after I come back from the first trip and make sure that (with estimated flowering time +2weeks) ill finish flowering AND harvest before I have to leave the country again for another 3 weeks 
Thank you gentlemen 


Check out my new QuadStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
and my previous TriStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/883569/


----------



## Brandon Nebel (Jun 5, 2017)

whitey78 said:


> I usually add about a tbs of lime per gallon of soil mix, I've never used hi-cal, I use dolomite or something similar to dolomite.... Also, I dont use just ocean forest, I mix it with happy frog in a bag to bag ratio.....I am having a brain fart so I cant figure out the measurements in quarts but I usually add about 6 cups of EWC's to a bag of soil, more is usually not better but with EWC's its not gonna hurt unless you go way overboard..... I think the mix of ocean forest which is coir based and the happy frog which is peat based gives an overall better base than either of them alone..... good job on the perlite as well, definitely need that, again not able to picture the amounts but realize that the more you add the more often you are going to water, you need some but not too much...... rice hulls are a good alternative. Dont go too crazy with the glacial rock dust, I use azomite instead of that and it can easily cause salt build up if you use too much..... I add a 1/2 cup of azomite to a batch of soil that contains 8 bags of soil (supersoil)..... so be careful with that stuff....


Why is everyone using azomite. Doesnt the heavy metal content bother anybody else but me. I dont want my medicine to contain mercury and aluminum. Arent there other products where we can get the trace elements without the heavy metals.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 5, 2017)

Brandon Nebel said:


> Why is everyone using azomite. Doesnt the heavy metal content bother anybody else but me. I dont want my medicine to contain mercury and aluminum. Arent there other products where we can get the trace elements without the heavy metals.


I don't use it


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## Brandon Nebel (Jun 5, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> I don't use it


What do you use instead.


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## DonTesla (Jun 5, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> I don't use it


sure bothers me 

I wont touch it for my commercial mix I don't want ppl getting Alzheimers or P lockup, personally


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## DonTesla (Jun 5, 2017)

Brandon Nebel said:


> What do you use instead.


I guess it depends what you're using it for, mate..

for paramagnetic additives, there's blue metal dust / glacial rock dust / basalt, and more

for minerals, there's Burgundy lava rock / greensand / kelp etc

earth is so plentiful we just gotta look around a bit and look into each thing we come across.

azomite was named azomite cause it has everything from a to z in it, literally



Brandon Nebel said:


> Why is everyone using azomite. Doesnt the heavy metal content bother anybody else but me. I dont want my medicine to contain mercury and aluminum. Arent there other products where we can get the trace elements without the heavy metals.


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## DonTesla (Jun 8, 2017)

@Lighter404 ok lets simplify Jah homie!

If you can find some compost, lets use that eh! then just add about 40-45% aeration, depending how springy and pithy and fine it is, _best_ stuff you can find, a combo is best but one will do to start.
If you cant find compost you can get coir and Vigoro Black Earth (high humus blend) from Home Depot at $3 per bag. If no compost avail sub 1 part Vigoro Black Earth with 1 part Coir well rinsed to make 'compost' that day.

then you can start your plants.

from there you can work in the magnetic rock / mineral dust component into the topsoil with a fork as well as your fulvic and humic acid rich-homemade castings helped out with some kelp meal / neem meal if you can find.

that right there is really all you need.

1% neem
2% kelp
4% magnetic rock dust
10-15-20% castings once made (mix with aeration, simple top dress, can mix in next round)

The forces of life:
Fertile-rich, high-humus Compost
Living Organisms
Magnetic component

(remember, even O2 is paramagnetic because it has two unpaired electrons)


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## Lighter404 (Jun 8, 2017)

Awesome- thank you very much. I plan to get a better understanding about it as I go but it's a lot to take in all at once. So I've got easy access to most of that stuff though.[/QUOTE]


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## Brandon Nebel (Jun 21, 2017)

DrCannaPath said:


> Hello ladies and gents and thank you in advance for taking the time to read my post and add your 2 cents! And ideas, thoughts or help are much appreciated
> 
> Soil mix to a total of 2.5cf to be split in 2x 9gal pots for a final transplant right before the flip to 12/12 plus leftover:
> 
> ...


Although youve already gotten solid advice from seasoned growers i thought i would still chime in and let you know what i did this yeat using FFOF amd FFHF mixed together. In years past i only used ocean forest and happy frog mixed together. Not sure why i started mixing them but i did and its always given great results. And i get both products locally for a steal. $9 per bag which makes it the same price as all the lower quality soils at home depot. Anyways this year i wanted to get more into organics. So i ammemded my soil using the following recipe i kind of created on my own after reading many forums. This is a recipe based on a 30 gallon smart pot. 30 gallon pots require 4.01 cu ft of soil, or 473 cups if you want to break it down more. So per 30 gallon pot i used the following

80% mix of ocean forest and happy frog
20% mix of ammendments which are:
48 cups vermi organics EWC
22 cups california gold humus
3 cups kelp meal
3 cups alfalfa meal
3 cups glacial rock dust
3 cups insect frass
2 cups greensand
3 cups dolomite lime
1 cup langbeinite 
5-6 cups perlite.

I contemplated using guanos or manures but my gut told me to steer clear and instead feed guano or manure teas instead to get the nitogen. I realized most of the ammendments were slow releasing and from my studies the guanos are not slow releasing. And based on Shlubly comments im right and glad i didnt use guanos in the soil. I will top dress or tea feed if necessary. I was a little apprehensive at first to transplant them into this mix as ive never done it before and usually just stick with what works cause ruining a crop while experimenting would not be fun. Anyways like i said, youve gotten great feedback already i just wantedto share my recipe as my plants are thriving so far in it. I transplanted them into the 30# smart pot a week ago, using mykos of course amd watered them in with liquid kelp and had zero transplant shock and they started doubling in size right away in just 8 days they havr grown like crazy. Im in northern california and we've had an insane heat wave the last week too. Anyways happy growing


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## BRANDON77 (Jul 7, 2017)

Completely untested....please help me adjust my ratios and maybe what to add???

*POTTING SOIL RECIPE*

8 CU FEET OF FOX FARMS COCO LOCO (4 CU FT BAGS)

1 15 POUND BAG OF EARTH WORM CASTINGS

2 CUP MICROCHAZAE

2 CUP KELP MEAL

2 CUP ALFALFA MEAL

2 CUP AZOMITE

2 CUP SEABIRD GUANO

2 CUP LANGENBRITE

2 CUP CRAB MEAL

2 CUP DOLOMITE LIME

2 CUP EPSOM SALTS

2 CUP DIAMACEOUS EARTH

2 CUP OYSTER SHELL FLOUR

2 CUP FEATHER MEAL



also considering gypsum, i figured the oyster shell and dolomite lime should provide enough calcium though. I have everything listed above except the oyster flour and feather meal.


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## Maersk (Jul 8, 2017)

@BRANDON77 
Dont add mycorrhizae to the soil, they need roots...

Add it to the roots when you transplant. your ratios do need adjusting but im no pro either...


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## BobCajun (Aug 27, 2017)

Anybody get Russet Mites when using the FFOF? Might not be a bad idea to microwave it or something, though I guess that would kill good organisms too. Probably beats having Russet Mites though. Here's a page showing how plants look when infested. I don't know if the plant in the video is infested or not, doesn't look as bad as the images on the linked page but could be.


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## Tim Fox (Aug 27, 2017)

BobCajun said:


> Anybody get Russet Mites when using the FFOF? Might not be a bad idea to microwave it or something, though I guess that would kill good organisms too. Probably beats having Russet Mites though. Here's a page showing how plants look when infested. I don't know if the plant in the video is infested or not, doesn't look as bad as the images on the linked page but could be.


thats a first,, never heard of mites coming in the soil?,, i did hear that oregon let looose russet mites to combat some other mite the state did not want,, but i have not bothered to research if that is true or not,, but most of the local growers feel they did it to hurt them,, but i kinda doubt it


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## BobCajun (Aug 28, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> thats a first,, never heard of mites coming in the soil?,, i did hear that oregon let looose russet mites to combat some other mite the state did not want,, but i have not bothered to research if that is true or not,, but most of the local growers feel they did it to hurt them,, but i kinda doubt it


The guy could just have misidentified it as mites, but still I wouldn't trust bought soil as is. If nothing else, it's often full of fungus gnat larvae. Probably a good rule is to sterilize all bought soil. Add new beneficial bacteria after that I guess. But those russet mites could really put a crimp in a weed growing region once established. Apparently they're also known as tomato mites, so if you also happen to grow tomatoes you should probably be extra watchful. Haven't actually investigated the subject beyond looking at the pics on that forum page I linked. Looks like bloody hell for growers though, invisible microscopic bugs that can lay waste to a plant in a few days.


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## Tim Fox (Aug 28, 2017)

BobCajun said:


> The guy could just have misidentified it as mites, but still I wouldn't trust bought soil as is. If nothing else, it's often full of fungus gnat larvae. Probably a good rule is to sterilize all bought soil. Add new beneficial bacteria after that I guess. But those russet mites could really put a crimp in a weed growing region once established. Apparently they're also known as tomato mites, so if you also happen to grow tomatoes you should probably be extra watchful. Haven't actually investigated the subject beyond looking at the pics on that forum page I linked. Looks like bloody hell for growers though, invisible microscopic bugs that can lay waste to a plant in a few days.


this reminds me of one of the reasons i like to grow in whats called SIP's,, like the earthbox for instance, or the earthtrainer,, in sip growing we cover the top of the soil with plastic ,, like a shower cap idea,, some like the earthbox come with a fitted plastic cover,, others just use garbage bags,, ,, but in so doing we create a barrier between the soil and the plant, 
i have not seen a bug since i started doing this,, knats and other soil bound bugs if they exiist stay trapped in the dirt,,
its worked well so far


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## BobCajun (Aug 28, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> this reminds me of one of the reasons i like to grow in whats called SIP's,, like the earthbox for instance, or the earthtrainer,, in sip growing we cover the top of the soil with plastic ,, like a shower cap idea,, some like the earthbox come with a fitted plastic cover,, others just use garbage bags,, ,, but in so doing we create a barrier between the soil and the plant,
> i have not seen a bug since i started doing this,, knats and other soil bound bugs if they exiist stay trapped in the dirt,,
> its worked well so far


Not a bad idea, would also conserve water and possibly warm the medium up some by "solar heating" effect. Might be hard to water though, unless there's hoses under it. Personally I stick with perlite, reusing it over and over. After the first few uses it gets a fair amount of dead root material in it, the small bits after pulling out the clumps. That acts as a moisture retainer, much like peat or coco, but you don't need to buy it, it's free. I let the containers sit for 3 weeks between uses, enclosed in garbage bags to kill off any fungus gnats that may hatch in there. The roots break down somewhat in that 3 weeks time. 

So you can actually have an organic medium without using soil or peat/coco, because perlite is a natural stone and cannabis roots are of course also natural. If too much root material builds up in the perlite you can always dump it into a container of water and wash it off, the perlite floating to the top. Once you get a good amount of roots in there it holds enough water for a few days, whereas pure perlite would dry out quickly and also not hold the plants up as sturdy. Kind of like growing plants in styrofoam pellets, way too light.


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## Tim Fox (Aug 28, 2017)

BobCajun said:


> Might be hard to water though, unless there's hoses under it.


yup,, sips water from below using wicks


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## BobCajun (Aug 28, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> yup,, sips water from below using wicks


Oh right, hence the name. Another good thing about a plastic covering is that moisture will condense on the inside and drip back down through the soil, being much like a top watering of rain, though at a slower pace.


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## chuckie86 (Aug 30, 2017)

Sincerely420 said:


> Not the same bro. Check out my sig.
> 
> I can't really get it locally and didn't wanna order it and wait this time, so I went with azomite instead.
> You can order it from Amazon tho.
> ...


Thanks for this this is what may help me.out a good bit need something to help with all the deficiencys I always have and this will work I think thanks


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## Bestcoast666 (Oct 9, 2017)

Sincerly420, I used your mix I hope everything works well let me know if u have any new tips I know this post is old lol thanks man !


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## tripleD (Oct 14, 2017)

Bestcoast666 said:


> Sincerly420, I used your mix I hope everything works well let me know if u have any new tips I know this post is old lol thanks man !


Where did you buy everything? I don't have local access and I wonder if buying "black gold earth worm castings" fertilizer and some of the other amendments from Amazon would be ok?


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## Bestcoast666 (Oct 14, 2017)

tripleD said:


> Where did you buy everything? I don't have local access and I wonder if buying "black gold earth worm castings" fertilizer and some of the other amendments from Amazon would be ok?


I got a lot of stuff from shopping around from nursery to nursery! That's where I got FFOF and EWC as for black gold EWC I would get it I know they make a good soil. Amazon and home depo are good to get organic amandments, check out monster grow store, in your google search bar they have the best stuff for soil that's all organic, even a list of what to mix. It's called subcools super soil. Or something close to that ! Good luck man cheers


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## Bestcoast666 (Oct 14, 2017)

But don't get me wrong man I'm a noob lol I just research a lot I'm starting on my 4th cycle ever. Lol but every one it's dank with good yields


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## tripleD (Oct 15, 2017)

Bestcoast666 said:


> But don't get me wrong man I'm a noob lol I just research a lot I'm starting on my 4th cycle ever. Lol but every one it's dank with good yields


Thanks for the info! I started growing 2 years ago, but I only grow 3-4 plants once a year in October when the temps aren't so hot.... so every October I have to re-learn every damn thing that I forgot, which is just about everything lol. I grow Auto's and I mix FFOF with FFHF and I've been using Tiger Bloom and other Nutes, but I'm going to try supplementing with organic teas this time instead and see how it goes. I was getting 3oz-4oz per plant with the nutes but I wanna see how natural teas will do. My 3 plants are 15 days old now so hopefully my teas will be ready in time.


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## Bestcoast666 (Oct 17, 2017)

tripleD said:


> Thanks for the info! I started growing 2 years ago, but I only grow 3-4 plants once a year in October when the temps aren't so hot.... so every October I have to re-learn every damn thing that I forgot, which is just about everything lol. I grow Auto's and I mix FFOF with FFHF and I've been using Tiger Bloom and other Nutes, but I'm going to try supplementing with organic teas this time instead and see how it goes. I was getting 3oz-4oz per plant with the nutes but I wanna see how natural teas will do. My 3 plants are 15 days old now so hopefully my teas will be ready in time.


FFOF and FFHF is an amazing 1:1 mix, super easy and packs a punch! If you want to grow truly organic tho u need to cut the nutes and only use organic soil amendments and/or organic teas. Chem nutes are detrimental to your organic grow, and makes it not organic any more. What kind of lights and space are you using also to only get 3/4 oz of autos?


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## Bestcoast666 (Oct 17, 2017)

tripleD said:


> Thanks for the info! I started growing 2 years ago, but I only grow 3-4 plants once a year in October when the temps aren't so hot.... so every October I have to re-learn every damn thing that I forgot, which is just about everything lol. I grow Auto's and I mix FFOF with FFHF and I've been using Tiger Bloom and other Nutes, but I'm going to try supplementing with organic teas this time instead and see how it goes. I was getting 3oz-4oz per plant with the nutes but I wanna see how natural teas will do. My 3 plants are 15 days old now so hopefully my teas will be ready in time.


And how long are the autos? That's not bad yields at all don't get me wrong, it's deff possible to get bigger yields on the bright side


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## tripleD (Oct 18, 2017)

Bestcoast666 said:


> FFOF and FFHF is an amazing 1:1 mix, super easy and packs a punch! If you want to grow truly organic tho u need to cut the nutes and only use organic soil amendments and/or organic teas. Chem nutes are detrimental to your organic grow, and makes it not organic any more. What kind of lights and space are you using also to only get 3/4 oz of autos?


My setup:
4x4 Gorilla tent
Spydr600LED light
5gal smart pots 
FFOF/FFHF soil
Carbon Filter exhaust
1fan
Temps 70-80
RO water 1gal every other day
Will start feeding Gen Organics products next week phd to 6.5


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## firstnamelast (Jan 2, 2018)

Is there an updated version to this somewhere? Brand new grower and poster here! Thanks!


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## DonTesla (Jan 2, 2018)

firstnamelast said:


> Is there an updated version to this somewhere? Brand new grower and poster here! Thanks!


Save yourself the frustration my friend, and avoid FoxFarms all together..
If you want help building a truly high quality living soil, ask me or RastaRoy for some free help, anytime!


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## firstnamelast (Jan 2, 2018)

DonTesla said:


> Save yourself the frustration my friend, and avoid FoxFarms all together..
> If you want help building a truly high quality living soil, ask me or RastaRoy for some free help, anytime!


Thanks a ton! Heading your way


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## firstnamelast (Jan 2, 2018)

DonTesla said:


> Save yourself the frustration my friend, and avoid FoxFarms all together..
> If you want help building a truly high quality living soil, ask me or RastaRoy for some free help, anytime!


New to the forum how do I DM even hahah


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## DonTesla (Jan 2, 2018)

On the top right, there is a tab called Inbox, and if you hover over it, a drop down menu shows up saying Show All (or) Start a New Convo.

If you click start a new convo, you can add a person to talk to by typing their name!


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## firstnamelast (Jan 2, 2018)

DonTesla said:


> On the top right, there is a tab called Inbox, and if you hover over it, a drop down menu shows up saying Show All (or) Start a New Convo.
> 
> If you click start a new convo, you can add a person to talk to by typing their name!


Awesome very helpful!! On my way to the Don's thread


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## mukai (Feb 1, 2018)

FFOF is good out the bag (as is) for smallish gardens (2 to 3) 5 gallon smartpots. As somebody else said, it gets nutrient thin towards the end. So adding your choice of amendments not only makes it go further per run, but you save money by reusing and amending your mixture; just be sure to amend only with organics. That way you can do a modified no till. FFOF is a bit spendy. But it's a consistent base on which you can experiment.


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## shannonball (May 6, 2018)

supchaka said:


> I use happy frog and ocean forest, I mix each with 25% perlite. I use the happy frog in party cups for seedlings, clones and then they get transplanted into ocean forest around 2-3 weeks. I give no nutes until I'm actually in flower.


we use 50/50 FFOF n Happy Frog and add in some for aeration and drainage. works great and doesn't breakdown like perlite does. 











*1.5 cu. ft. - Growstone GS-2*


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## tripleD (May 19, 2018)

Bestcoast666 said:


> And how long are the autos? That's not bad yields at all don't get me wrong, it's deff possible to get bigger yields on the bright side


I get 3oz per Auto very consistently, and sometimes I get 4oz but I have no idea what I should be shooting for....What would you say the average yield for an Ak48 Auto or Blue Dream Auto should be??


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## bezalom (May 23, 2018)

I use Jobe's Organic as a base and add to it. I always use (and have for 20 years) used 1/3 perlite. Good drainage and rapid root growth makes good. Foxfarm sucks and don't use it! It is a scam to sell you expensive bottles of additives on a schedule that cost a small fortune and isn't even organic! I don't have to feed mine anything start to finish. Foxfarm has you feeding right up to harvest which is ridiculous as should never feed a month to 3 weeks prior to harvest and always flush. Friend of mine swears by foxfarm and his stuff tastes like crap and is all brown and his seeds are wacked because Foxfarm screws with the genetics and makes seed shells impossible to pop because so thick. I did a side by side test with Ocean Forest with two White Widow clones and the Ocean Forest had so many deficiencies that had to chop it early..hard to see from pics...one on the left is straight Foxfarm Ocean Forest (with added perlite)! Can see it is smaller but leaf pics can't find but mostly mag and phosphorus deficiencies plus assorted micro.

And of course Foxfarm Ocean Forest sucks straight because I didn't buy the expensive additive bottles so why would the soil be worth a crap straight!


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## Badfishy1 (May 25, 2018)

bezalom said:


> I use Jobe's Organic as a base and add to it. I always use (and have for 20 years) used 1/3 perlite. Good drainage and rapid root growth makes good. Foxfarm sucks and don't use it! It is a scam to sell you expensive bottles of additives on a schedule that cost a small fortune and isn't even organic! I don't have to feed mine anything start to finish. Foxfarm has you feeding right up to harvest which is ridiculous as should never feed a month to 3 weeks prior to harvest and always flush. Friend of mine swears by foxfarm and his stuff tastes like crap and is all brown and his seeds are wacked because Foxfarm screws with the genetics and makes seed shells impossible to pop because so thick. I did a side by side test with Ocean Forest with two White Widow clones and the Ocean Forest had so many deficiencies that had to chop it early..hard to see from pics...one on the left is straight Foxfarm Ocean Forest (with added perlite)! Can see it is smaller but leaf pics can't find but mostly mag and phosphorus deficiencies plus assorted micro.
> 
> And of course Foxfarm Ocean Forest sucks straight because I didn't buy the expensive additive bottles so why would the soil be worth a crap straight!


Fox farms screws with genetics... please just stop my sides is kill


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## JJ43 (May 25, 2018)

bezalom said:


> I use Jobe's Organic as a base and add to it.........deficiencies plus assorted micro.
> 
> And of course Foxfarm Ocean Forest sucks straight because I didn't buy the expensive additive bottles so why would the soil be worth a crap straight!


Never had anything but great results with FFOF soil...my plants love it . I’d guess your troubles are those lights your showing or maybe the jobes.


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## Go go n chill (Sep 30, 2018)

FFOF, third round using it. 17gal tote full of FFOF , 1.5 cup of DTE all purpose, fish bone meal, green sand, kelp, dolamite lime and epsom salt........ that’s it! ...... GO GROW it’s that easy.


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## Miyagismokes (Oct 2, 2018)

Go go n chill said:


> 17gal tote


I've been playing with totes myself, got some...I dunno, 12-14 gal I guess, green waste bins I'm using outdoor for some late plantings. Itching to use them indoor...


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## Go go n chill (Oct 3, 2018)

Miyagismokes said:


> I've been playing with totes myself, got some...I dunno, 12-14 gal I guess, green waste bins I'm using outdoor for some late plantings. Itching to use them indoor...


I don’t grow in them, I just use them to rotate my soil for every other grow season. Two 17gal totes works nicely for the number of plants and grow space I have


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## The Mantis (Nov 13, 2018)

Go go n chill said:


> I don’t grow in them, I just use them to rotate my soil for every other grow season. Two 17gal totes works nicely for the number of plants and grow space I have


I've used totes and garbage cans. Totes work great. 18gal is what I'm about to use once my plants are ready to flower. Get some cheap around the holidays at wally world or lowes. $4 each or so if you keep an eye out. if you can get for less than that grab them up! bigger yield than using 5gal buckets.


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## Go go n chill (Nov 13, 2018)

The Mantis said:


> I've used totes and garbage cans. Totes work great. 18gal is what I'm about to use once my plants are ready to flower. Get some cheap around the holidays at wally world or lowes. $4 each or so if you keep an eye out. if you can get for less than that grab them up! bigger yield than using 5gal buckets.


Oh so you grow in the totes? I have thought about shelving in large tote in my grow closet and planting some beans to see what would happen. I’m curious how the routes we do and how the canopy would react to not ever having boundaries


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## The Mantis (Nov 13, 2018)

Go go n chill said:


> Oh so you grow in the totes? I have thought about shelving in large tote in my grow closet and planting some beans to see what would happen. I’m curious how the routes we do and how the canopy would react to not ever having boundaries


Yep, I've used totes indoor and outdoor. Indoors I would plant two in a tote unsexed to flower and then cut down the males and add in clones or leave the plant solo.


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## Go go n chill (Nov 14, 2018)

The Mantis said:


> Yep, I've used totes indoor and outdoor. Indoors I would plant two in a tote unsexed to flower and then cut down the males and add in clones or leave the plant solo.


What type of setup? How big do the plants get?


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 14, 2018)

fox farm isn't that bad, the way some of you guys make it sound, like it's made with batery acid! I've used it Over the years, and I've always amended it, and added to my living soil! can't say I have any major complaints, but I do prefer roots organic over ffof, and happy frog!


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## The Mantis (Nov 14, 2018)

Go go n chill said:


> What type of setup? How big do the plants get?


I've done hps indoor with containers and got 2 plants in a container that went 7' tall with massive rock hard buds. Smaller plants do grow as big but you can get huge yields from 18gal containers. Remember to poke in some holes for drainage. 

Outdoor they can get really big so you'll need to stake them out.


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## The Mantis (Nov 14, 2018)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> fox farm isn't that bad, the way some of you guys make it sound, like it's made with batery acid! I've used it Over the years, and I've always amended it, and added to my living soil! can't say I have any major complaints, but I do prefer roots organic over ffof, and happy frog!


I think the first grow with ffof is a little hot maybe and you get some burn. If you leave the same soil in your container (no till) and then replant in the same holes, it seems like they grow much better on the 2nd-4th rounds with some light top dressing and/or teas. IMO, you should probably amend the whole container of soil and start over after 3-4 grows.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 14, 2018)

The Mantis said:


> I think the first grow with ffof is a little hot maybe and you get some burn. If you leave the same soil in your container (no till) and then replant in the same holes, it seems like they grow much better on the 2nd-4th rounds with some light top dressing and/or teas. IMO, you should probably amend the whole container of soil and start over after 3-4 grows.


lol thank you but I've been re using my soil for almost 5 years now, but I appreciate it anyway!


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## Go go n chill (Nov 14, 2018)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> lol thank you but I've been re using my soil for almost 5 years now, but I appreciate it anyway!


Wow five years that’s a good run. I’ve only been growing for over a year now but I see no reason why you can’t keep soil going he just have to amend it. And I’ve never had a problem with Foxfarm ocean forest burning my plants. My amended super soil always goes into the bottom of each pot and what is on top is always straight Foxfarm ocean floors . But that’s What works for me it might network for someone else with a different set up. I’m only running 1400 Milla amps of cobs ....


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 14, 2018)

you are correct a true living soil, never goes bad! heres what I'm working on now!

https://www.rollitup.org/t/greens-gorilla-glue-4.979073/


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## Go go n chill (Nov 14, 2018)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> you are correct a true living soil, never goes bad! heres what I'm working on now!
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/greens-gorilla-glue-4.979073/


 Oh man I’m gonna have questions for you later ! I don’t have time to read your whole journal but I’ll get to it later I got questions about how use your dolomite lime


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 14, 2018)

Go go n chill said:


> Oh man I’m gonna have questions for you later ! I don’t have time to read your whole journal but I’ll get to it later I got questions about how use your dolomite lime


just head over there, most questions have been answered, it's only a few pages and a working progress, but I'd be happy to help out in any way I can!


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## AMillz710 (Dec 16, 2018)

Sincerely420 said:


> *Soil mixed up for the next run(as of 1/17/2013)
> I used:
> 
> -1.5cubic feet Fox Farm Ocean Forest
> ...


Just FYI theres no point in adding any mycos to your soil mix when cooking. All those mycos get fried right out of the mix. It's not hurting you, but you're wasting money. Better idea would be to add 1 Tbs +/- during transplant right under your root ball. You can add it to your mix globally, but again, only after it is done "cooking" when you're ready to plant in it.


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## DarthPlagueis (May 23, 2019)

Is there not a worry about using spaghum peat Moss as a base? Isn’t it acidic?


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## PadawanWarrior (Jun 6, 2019)

I've been using the same FFOF for 10 months now and so far so good. I didn't plan on just leaving it. I planned on amending it before I started another grow originally and have all the stuff to do it already, but figured I would experiment. I figured that it might be a good way to start learning NO-Till. I would of at least added some more perlite if I knew I was gonna do it this way but so far it's all good.


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## Gingeroot (Sep 16, 2019)

PadawanWarrior said:


> I've been using the same FFOF for 10 months now and so far so good. I didn't plan on just leaving it. I planned on amending it before I started another grow originally and have all the stuff to do it already, but figured I would experiment. I figured that it might be a good way to start learning NO-Till. I would of at least added some more perlite if I knew I was gonna do it this way but so far it's all good.
> View attachment 4346159


Best lights you can buy! I just amended some ff with a lil oyster shell, insect frass, and small lava rock.


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## PadawanWarrior (Sep 16, 2019)

Gingeroot said:


> Best lights you can buy! I just amended some ff with a lil oyster shell, insect frass, and small lava rock.


Nice, I started to amend some of mine with bio-char, black lava rock, pumice, rice hulls, EWC, vermicompost, Mykos, and Craft Blend from Build a Soil. I didn't think to add some insect frass, but I've started using it as a top dress. I have 7 15 gal pots with the mixed soil now, and 4 more pots that I still have to amend when that batch is done that's flowing. Oh, and I'm also testing quantum boards this round, and next round I'm going to run quantum boards with the cmh.


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## Gingeroot (Sep 16, 2019)

PadawanWarrior said:


> Nice, I started to amend some of mine with bio-char, black lava rock, pumice, rice hulls, EWC, vermicompost, Mykos, and Craft Blend from Build a Soil. I didn't think to add some insect frass, but I've started using it as a top dress. I have 7 15 gal pots with the mixed soil now, and 4 more pots that I still have to amend when that batch is done that's flowing.


At that point you can just cut the FF out lol! I’m loving the BS v3 mix so far after adding small lava. Gonna see how it does vs the amended FF!


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## Go go n chill (Sep 16, 2019)

PadawanWarrior said:


> Nice, I started to amend some of mine with bio-char, black lava rock, pumice, rice hulls, EWC, vermicompost, Mykos, and Craft Blend from Build a Soil. I didn't think to add some insect frass, but I've started using it as a top dress. I have 7 15 gal pots with the mixed soil now, and 4 more pots that I still have to amend when that batch is done that's flowing. Oh, and I'm also testing quantum boards this round, and next round I'm going to run quantum boards with the cmh.


I’m going on 2 years with amended FFOF. It works for me.... I did get a bag of FFOF and it had mites in it...... I freaked out and threw away all the soil along with at least 20 plants..... then I found out they were Hypoasis mites, a good mite to have. Live and learn but I’m fine with it because I really don’t want any bugs


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## PadawanWarrior (Sep 16, 2019)

Go go n chill said:


> I’m going on 2 years with amended FFOF. It works for me.... I did get a bag of FFOF and it had mites in it...... I freaked out and threw away all the soil along with at least 20 plants..... then I found out they were Hypoasis mites, a good mite to have. Live and learn but I’m fine with it because I really don’t want any bugs


Funny man. Ya I'm a little over a year with my FFOF, and when I first started seeing the mites I was a little worried and thought they were bad, but am glad I have them now. I got a lot of them from the Wiggle Worm EWC too. Those seem to stay in the soil though or are seen patrolling the pots for the bad bugs. I haven't ever see them on my plants yet.


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## Brandon137 (Dec 19, 2019)

Hello all I'm coming up to my second grow in my ffof soil I havent added much ammendments to it during its first cycle can I just go right into my second grow without amending it or removing the old root ball? I have 4 10 gallon pots and the majority of my ammendments has been ewc's and some light top dressing hear and there


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## Go go n chill (Feb 24, 2020)

Brandon137 said:


> Hello all I'm coming up to my second grow in my ffof soil I havent added much ammendments to it during its first cycle can I just go right into my second grow without amending it or removing the old root ball? I have 4 10 gallon pots and the majority of my ammendments has been ewc's and some light top dressing hear and there


I remove my root balls.
I would buy another bag of FFOF to start my new plants and amend the old FFOF and let it cook for a bit...... then you’ll have souls in rotation..,.. that is how I do it.... I don’t plant cover crops or anything like that


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## P10p (Mar 1, 2020)

when this guy is talking about letting it sit for a month, can it just sit loosely covered in a basement or like...?


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## PadawanWarrior (Mar 1, 2020)

Brandon137 said:


> Hello all I'm coming up to my second grow in my ffof soil I havent added much ammendments to it during its first cycle can I just go right into my second grow without amending it or removing the old root ball? I have 4 10 gallon pots and the majority of my ammendments has been ewc's and some light top dressing hear and there


I used the same pots of FFOF for the first 3 rounds. I did let the pots sit for a couple months before replanting though when I could. Then the roots have time to break down. I've turned it into no-till soil since. Now I have 13 15 gal pots that go through a rotation. I started with 9 10 gal pots of FFOF, but that turned into a lot more once I added the other stuff.



P10p said:


> when this guy is talking about letting it sit for a month, can it just sit loosely covered in a basement or like...?


I put my waiting pots in the basement uncovered. I just keep the soil moist.


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## Go go n chill (Mar 1, 2020)

P10p said:


> when this guy is talking about letting it sit for a month, can it just sit loosely covered in a basement or like...?


I would be fine to do that


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## Go go n chill (Mar 1, 2020)

I just opened a fresh bag to add to the rotation. This bag of FFOF appears different, more bark and what looks like coco coir but I’m not sure.... just looks like the ingredients are different. We soon shall see.


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## Jaycam (Mar 2, 2020)

Hey guys I was wondering if I could get some suggestions. I have a plant in veg and I’m using ocean forest and add nutrients around 30 days or so . I have never ph’d my water and has never shown any real signs of deficiencies. So for so strange reason I thought I would ph this watering and when I checked my plants later it it looked great but the next day it looked like this . 
Here a few pics of !


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## Brandon137 (Mar 2, 2020)

Jaycam said:


> Hey guys I was wondering if I could get some suggestions. I have a plant in veg and I’m using ocean forest and add nutrients around 30 days or so . I have never ph’d my water and has never shown any real signs of deficiencies. So for so strange reason I thought I would ph this watering and when I checked my plants later it it looked great but the next day it looked like this .
> Here a few pics of ! View attachment 4494270View attachment 4494271


Maybe ph pen is broken? Or out of calibration?


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## Go go n chill (Mar 2, 2020)

Yes, check your pen... 
I’m curious how far off was the water and what did you adjust the PH too?


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## CoB_nUt (Mar 2, 2020)

Maybe you knocked the media's ph off by ph'ing the water.You weren't doing it previously.
Whatever it is it's a root issue being that it happened so fast after using adjusted water.


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## Go go n chill (Mar 2, 2020)

CoB_nUt said:


> Maybe you knocked the media's ph off by ph'ing the water.You weren't doing it previously.
> Whatever it is it's a root issue being that it happened so fast after using adjusted water.


I agree


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## CoB_nUt (Mar 2, 2020)

T


Go go n chill said:


> I agree


Thanks,yea it was the first thing to come to mind.Seems the roots were happy until their environment changed.Causing lockout. I don't run soil yet. But maybe a topdressing of the FF and a regular-un ph'd watering will reset the media? NO FLUSH!

@Budzbuddha is the FFOF guru IMO. He is the reason I'll be getting into soil.


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## Go go n chill (Mar 2, 2020)

CoB_nUt said:


> T
> 
> Thanks,yea it was the first thing to come to mind.Seems the roots were happy until their environment changed.Causing lockout. I don't run soil yet. But maybe a topdressing of the FF and a regular-un ph'd watering will reset the media? NO FLUSH!
> 
> @Budzbuddha is the FFOF guru IMO. He is the reason I'll be getting into soil.


I’m going on 4 yrs using the same FFOF


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## Go go n chill (Mar 2, 2020)

CoB_nUt said:


> T
> 
> Thanks,yea it was the first thing to come to mind.Seems the roots were happy until their environment changed.Causing lockout. I don't run soil yet. But maybe a topdressing of the FF and a regular-un ph'd watering will reset the media? NO FLUSH!
> 
> @Budzbuddha is the FFOF guru IMO. He is the reason I'll be getting into soil.


I love FFOF, you’ve seen my grows..... that soil grows nice plants.... definitely beginner friendly


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## CoB_nUt (Mar 2, 2020)

Go go n chill said:


> I’m going on 4 yrs using the same FFOF


Yup,I saw you in a few organic threads during my research.I run soiless,a few different mixes.Coco Loco.Perlite×Turface all 3 etc. I've been bitten and want to try organics and creating a water only soil.
I'll be grabbing a worm bin pretty soon.


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## CoB_nUt (Mar 2, 2020)

Go go n chill said:


> I love FFOF, you’ve seen my grows..... that soil grows nice plants.... definitely beginner friendly


Yes,I have.You put in some nice work with it.The beginner friendliness is what drew me to it.


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## Go go n chill (Mar 21, 2020)

FFOF harvest day


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## CaseyQuinn (Sep 26, 2021)

Sincerely420 said:


> Hi All,
> Happy 11/7/12 to those of you in Washington St. and Colorado!
> I'm somewhat of a newbie, but not totally as I've done my fair part of lurking on these forums without an account, and reading different books, and online articles..Mainly all the different forums..
> Anyhow I decided to post here as I found it to be quite informative in comparison to a lot of the other forums..
> ...


I plan on doi f this with also a little neem seed & maybe a little extra oyster shell. It will be my 1st mix. & I want to use the rest of Ocean Forrest I have. So I'm curious to how this mix worked for you. No, I have not scrolled yet to read all replies. I will do so shortly. Thanks for the advice. It will be my qst all organic grow. & I have all the ingredients you mentioned, plus some.


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## CaseyQuinn (Sep 26, 2021)

Sincerely420 said:


> Appreciates BrownEs!
> 
> I am indeed using this mix without any nutes from seed to flowering!
> I do however use AACT(actively aerated compost teas) which are made from the amendments that I have left over from the soil mix.
> ...


There's 2 books under that title. Is this the one Sir? I'm going to get it. I'm doing my 1st ALL Organic grow. So thx.


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## green_machine_two9er (Sep 26, 2021)

CaseyQuinn said:


> There's 2 books under that title. Is this the one Sir? I'm going to get it. I'm doing my 1st ALL Organic grow. So thx.


There’s 3 books in the series. Might as well get them all. Teaming with microbes, teaming with nutrients, teaming with fungi


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## CaseyQuinn (Sep 26, 2021)

green_machine_two9er said:


> There’s 3 books in the series. Might as well get them all. Teaming with microbes, teaming with nutrients, teaming with fungi


Gotcha. & thx.


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## CaseyQuinn (Sep 26, 2021)

Anyone use similar recipes but used Fox Farms Strawberry Fields instead of Ocean Forrest? My girl is actually in 5 gallons of straight Ocean Forrest now. PPM is getting low (350ish) so I'm about ready to transplant up to a 7 gallon fabric pot. Getting her ready to flip to flower. Northern Lights 2 months old. So I'm actually about to mix my soil & amendments right now. & since I was not planning on shaking the roots loose too much, most the current soil will go in the middle of new bigger pot. I was thinking about using: a few (2 or 3) gallons of Stawberry Fields. I dont have perlite, although I do have a bag of clay hydration Pellets. So I can add 2.5 quarts of clay lava rocks. 2 Quarts Earth Worm Castings. 2 Tbsp. Per gallon of Gaia 4.4.4... & also 2 tbsp. Per gallon Of Gaia 2.8.4. .. & 1 Quart Gaia Glacial Rock Dust... 2 Tbsp.per gallon of soil of Mineralized Phosphate.. .5 cup of Kemp Meal... .5 cup of Green Sand. & I was going to add either a tbsp. Of Dolimite Lime OR Oyster Shell flour. ... or can I use a little of each? Sorry. It's all new to me. I'm studying. But want to put it in pot so I can use in 3 weeks. Also. I have Neem Seed Meal. & Fish Bone Meal. .. just not sure about using Neem in Flower stage? ANY & ALL feedback is appreciated. For I want to mix this now. Thanks again.


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## CaseyQuinn (Sep 26, 2021)

Guess I'm trying to figure out what not to use in flower. Although I'm starting a new grow as well. So I'll be doing similar recipe for new Veg. Cycle soon. So I need to learn what to substitute with. I understand more Nitrogen in Veg., like Seabird Guano, Bone Meal, etc. Then during flower use the higher Phosphorus & Potassium meals. I already made one Banana tea & my red girl in full flower right now LOVED IT! So I'll be learning how to make all the teas. Thanks again for feedback.


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## CaseyQuinn (Sep 26, 2021)

Okay. So I made more than I need. If I store the mix I mentioned above in a 20 gal. plastic tub. .. will it keep till needed next time?


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## CaseyQuinn (Sep 26, 2021)

Okay. I added a little humid acid. & 2 Tablespoons of Azomite. This might not be needed with the Gaia Rock Dust & also Green sand I added. But I through a little in there anyways. Here it is again. Thoughts? *3 to 4 Gallons Fox Farm Soil (I used Strawberry Fields, since this is for the start of Flower transplant to 7 gallon pot. But would use Ocean Forrest if in Veg. Still). **2.5 quarts of Clay Hydrationpellets (Lava Rocks) **2 quarts of Earth Worm Castings **1 Tablespoon of Oyster Shell Flour **1 Tablespoon of Dolomite Lime **3 Tablespoons Gaia Green Glacial Rock Dust **6 Tablespoons Gaia Green 4-4-4 All Purpose **6 Tablespoons Gaia Green Power Bloom **6 Tablespoons of Gaia Green Mineralized Phosphate **8 Tablespoons Kelp Meal **3 Tablespoons Humic Acid **4 tablespoons Green Sand **3 Tablespoons Wallace's Wow Mycorrhizal Inoculant


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