# Keeping plants small...



## Merciless_One (Nov 13, 2006)

I'm talking smaaaall...I'm using one of those Aerogarden units, and the plant itself probably has about 15" to use for actual growth before I have to start thinking about splicing the wires and getting more supplimental lighting, etc. 

I'd like to use the unit without having to do this. So i'm looking to grow very small plants from seed. Can anyone enlighten me on the best way to do this? 

I'm looking for a way to stunt the vertical & horizontal growth as much as possible once it starts flowering...but also to not ruin the buds in the process...to create little mini bonzai pot plants that stay small, but not really bushy since I don't have room for a lot of growth horizontally either. 

Here is my current plan of attack to achieve this, I would really welcome and appreciate any advice:

Let plants grow to about 8-10 inches in vegative growth
Chop them all in half (to about 4-5 inches), removing any lower branches and some fan leaves about 3-5 days before flowering, and planning on going with a typical 8(ish) week flowering period.
Hoping and praying that the plants stay small enough...and assuming that I will get some males, I will thin those guys out to make more room for any females.
Thanks in advance for any advice!


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## Widow Maker (Nov 13, 2006)

I like your idea. I try to keep the light as close as I can. But not too close where the heat makes them stretch. You will just have to experiment. A lot has to do with the strain too. Sounds like you have it pretty much figured out.


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## Merciless_One (Nov 13, 2006)

Widow Maker said:


> I like your idea. I try to keep the light as close as I can. But not too close where the heat makes them stretch. You will just have to experiment. A lot has to do with the strain too. Sounds like you have it pretty much figured out.


 
Great..thanks for the quick reply. I just wanted some confirmation from someone who knows what they are doing. I realize that this is not the ideal setup, and may very well end up being a complete failure at the end, but I like the idea of growing 3-5 small, single bud plants ( maybe 1/8 or 1/4 oz of dried bud from each plant ?) in a little cupboard above my bedroom closet almost completely autonomously. 

The strain's i'm using are all unknown, from very stinky nasty bags of chronic that happened to have a few seeds here and there that I've collected and saved.


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## Teknique70 (Nov 13, 2006)

I like the idea of topping....

For sure next time tho I'm going to try and see if I can get the light closer than it allows in the very begining of the seedlings life and keep it that way and flower at no more than 2 weeks...

But these lights dont put off much heat but put out 1450 lumens each so you dont have to worry about them being too close...

I would'nt wait longer than 2 weeks to flower...

I waited till my plants were 4 weeks and they are now huge! (they are now 7 weeks) I might have to splice it again and longer! lol

More detailed update with pics tomorrow

I wish I didnt wait so long to flower but thats how you learn...

Good luck buddy 

Peace
-Tek


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## Merciless_One (Nov 13, 2006)

Teknique70 said:


> I like the idea of topping....
> 
> For sure next time tho I'm going to try and see if I can get the light closer than it allows in the very begining of the seedlings life and keep it that way and flower at no more than 2 weeks...
> 
> ...


Hehe...yea...I was thinking about that too: the lights not being close enough and causing the plants to reach for the light. That's why I was just thinking I would let them have their normal veg period, but then I would chop them down pretty brutally just before flowering...and hopefully that will prevent them from becoming too large. 

We will just have to work out the kinks, and find a good method to get the most out of this little system. I look forward to what the future holds after we all go through a few trial/error phases and can benefit from each other's different experiences.

Can't wait to see the pics, I bet the tops are starting to get pretty hairy by now.


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## toke420 (Nov 13, 2006)

i'm goin 2 for sure try that i havnt had the light close enough and thats y i keep havin the plant grow 2 big thanks for the ideas


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## Teknique70 (Nov 13, 2006)

Toke do you have an aerogarden as well?

-Tek


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## potroast (Nov 14, 2006)

Hey CFL Freaks,
Here's a couple thoughts. If you need more light, then add a cfl or 2 down low. I'll bet you'll want to add some more later in flowering anyway.
On keeping the plants small, you want to use clones. That way they can be flowered immediately. The problem with seedlings is that they have one big root, going straight down. If left to grow, it will be as big as the main stem above ground. That can't happen in your setup. Clones have a spread out root system, with big and small roots going all over. That's what you want in an aero system.

HTH


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## Teknique70 (Nov 14, 2006)

I hate to potroast but I'm going to have to disagree with you here....

My biggest plant right now had got to be close to 3 ft if not more....

I just changed the resivoir last night, There was no main root stem that was as long as the main stem it is more like a network of roots looking like a web, there is still room for more roots too...

Peace 
-Tek


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## shortys6934 (Nov 14, 2006)

basically here is wat i did, i put a fan i n my closet and I pulled out the lame ass aerogarden light, threw a metal halide light hangin from my closet shelf ima start the flower stage at about 5 weeks, i have 12 feet of height and 8 feet of width for the tree plant to grow so i figure its gonna get fuckin huge and when it flowers im get around a pound of trees considering its hydro and the light i have is basically "sunlight in my closet" lemme know if i sound really stupid lol 
later eryone


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## potroast (Nov 14, 2006)

Teknique70 said:


> I just changed the resivoir last night, There was no main root stem that was as long as the main stem it is more like a network of roots looking like a web, there is still room for more roots too...


Well, then you are agreeing with me, because that is exactly what I said.  Your seedling *would have* grown a main taproot going straight down if not for the limitations of your system. Roots will grow however they can. Your system will limit a seedling to a short tap root that has to curl around. That will stunt the vigor of the plant, as well as possibly influence the sex determination. There's a theory that inhibiting the growth of the taproot will cause more males.

Like I said, that system is designed for cuttings. Once you use cuttings in it, you'll do much better.

HTH


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## Teknique70 (Nov 14, 2006)

So if what your saying is true then pretty much any sytem used wont have enough room for a tap root the size of the plant. This would require at least a 3 feet deep space for a 3 foot plant, so a 4' plant in a 4' deep pot and so on. Unless you grow in the ground...

I dont feel tho that this sytem has limited any growing potential of the plant,.. since I increased the height of the light.... (like i said my plant is 7 weeks old and at least 3' high) I think thats pretty good

I believe that this plant is doing extremley well considering its environment...


But I do believe that clones in this system would do very well if not better too...

Well I dont know much but just adding my 2 cents

Peace
-Tek


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## Merciless_One (Nov 14, 2006)

I have also heard that , if I was growing in soil, I could manage the plants size simply by keeping them in smaller planters (like maybe the little 4" planters that you get small flowers in when you go to the grocery store. 

Is there any truth to this ?


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## potroast (Nov 15, 2006)

Hee hee! Sorry Tek, you're thinking I was talking about the length of the root! That's a kick! Anyway, I said as big as the plant is above ground, I meant as big *around*.  

IOW when the taproot is left to grow into the ground, or into a big pot, then it will get as big around as the main stem, like a continuation of the mainstem going underground. It tapers off in a foot or so. 

And actually you make a good point. Most hydro systems are designed for small plants, and therefore, cuttings are best. As we've discussed, seedlings are difficult to manage, and usually need to be flowered early because of the system.


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## Teknique70 (Nov 15, 2006)

I see now... hey what does IOW mean?

Peace
-Tek


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## mattwranco12 (Sep 14, 2008)

yooo bro do wha i did keep em in a small pot and they dont groo to tall and wide, my plant is about to bud and it only come up to my knees and is verry skinny. the plant is heathy 2 so if ya want giv her a try..


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## GoOdEtOkE (Aug 30, 2009)

when you figure out how to do it can you give me a shout iam buyin a aerogarden soon for personal grow an i have kno idea what strain is gunna work in it


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## SmokeDoggy (Aug 31, 2009)

Read up on the LST (low stress training) method - you can make it any height you want and the best part is you can ensure all of the bud sites get light (vs. just hoping they do).


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## gohydro (Aug 31, 2009)

Merciless_One said:


> I'm talking smaaaall...I'm using one of those Aerogarden units, and the plant itself probably has about 15" to use for actual growth before I have to start thinking about splicing the wires and getting more supplimental lighting, etc.
> 
> I'd like to use the unit without having to do this. So i'm looking to grow very small plants from seed. Can anyone enlighten me on the best way to do this?
> 
> ...


When you go to 12/12 the plants will almost triple in height before they stop vertical growth. One of the most important thing in internode height control is temperature. If you can maintain 77 fah during the day and 72 at night you're going to reduce stretch as much as possible. Heres something worth looking at:

"The easiest and most under-used way to control internodal stretch is temperature control. Plant internodal length is directly related to the difference between day and night temperatures  the warmer your day cycle is as compared to your night cycle, the greater your internode length will be. The opposite also holds true; the closer your day and night temperatures, the shorter your internodes will be. Ever notice how as the warmer summer months approach, your plants begin to stretch? Part of this problem may lie in an overall hotter grow-room, but a larger factor is the increased difference between day and night temperatures. 

Lets look at putting this to play in your grow room. Maximum temperatures should ideally never rise above 26°C, so you must do everything you can to prevent your room getting too hot (run lights at night, use exhaust fans, air conditioners, etc). An ideal temperature range is 24-25°C when the lights are on, and 22°C when the lights are off.

The temperature technique is most effective under a 12/12 light regime, which is ideal as this is when cannabis stretches the most. When the light cycle is brought to 12/12 we will raise the night temperature to the daytime level of 24-25°C. Space heaters on timers work well for this, and max/min type thermometers are ideal for
tracking temperatures.

It is during the first 2-3 weeks of the flower cycle that most strains begin to lengthen internodes, making it a very important time to control temperature, as this is when the framework for future colas is built. After this 2-3 week window we need to drop the night temperature back down to 22°C, as this is where the plant is happiest.


As floral development begins we need to keep in mind that the total size of your buds is determined largely by average daily temperature, provided it does not exceed optimal. So if you are letting your day temperatures drop below 24°C or your night drop below 22°C, you are costing yourself in overall weight and harvest.

Once your buds have reached optimal size and and you have begun the flushing period, you may consider dropping temperature down to 17-19°C for the final week or two. This drop in temperature triggers anthocyanin production, which intensifies the colour of the floral clusters and makes for a showier bud, especially with "purple" varieties. This final temperature change is not always feasible and can be omitted.

For extreme height control you may even use warmer night temperature than day, but be very careful when running settings like this, as even a zero difference between night and day temperatures will lead to leaf chlorosis (yellowing) after 2-3 weeks.

Some things you will notice while using this technique are a change in the leaf angle, upwards during warm days and downwards during warm nights. There is also the chlorosis if this is done for too long. Neither of these symptoms is nutrient related and will fix themselves when the temperature is changed back."


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## lemonjellow (Aug 31, 2009)

hey dont know much about aerogardens but on the short plant note i would like to suggest the use of the lowryder #2 strain .they say that they remain very small and dont need a 12/12 light cycle and also go from seed to weed in 8- 10 weeks. i will prolly try these out myself


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## carldoherty (Oct 15, 2009)

hey m8 if i was you idd minimize everythink slightly and keep your lights closebut no to close because they might strech and paint your grow box white as this dose not reflect lots of lite on to your plant this will stunt the groth nd also dont use nutes until 2 weeks before flowering i had exactly the same problem and just make sure they get lotss of air m8 and u shud have sum healthy plantss i also got toldd if you kepe a plant in gernmination for longerr the chance of female plants rises by about 20 % happy gorwing


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## Onlyoneman (May 4, 2010)

Merciless_One said:


> Great..thanks for the quick reply. I just wanted some confirmation from someone who knows what they are doing. I realize that this is not the ideal setup, and may very well end up being a complete failure at the end, but I like the idea of growing 3-5 small, single bud plants ( maybe 1/8 or 1/4 oz of dried bud from each plant ?) in a little cupboard above my bedroom closet almost completely autonomously.
> 
> The strain's i'm using are all unknown, from very stinky nasty bags of chronic that happened to have a few seeds here and there that I've collected and saved.


I believe I saw it mentioned before and IMHO the best way to go is to grow your plants as tall as you can in the space available and then top them using the tops as clones and scrap the rest of the plant. This will solve several problems. 1) You will be able to control the size of your plant much much better. 2) The root system on a clone is much better suited to being grown in less medium than a seed plant. 
Doing this I would probably want to start 12/12 on the plants as soon as they become hardy as they can still gain a considerable amount of size once they begin budding. Most of my plants usually manage to climb as much as another foot in the bloom room. Keep in mind though, that a lot of that height is the cola bud at the top, so don't cut it again. If the plants out grow the container again, then I would suggest bending the plants. Instructions for doing this can probably be found easily enough with any search engine. Hope this helps any new growers looking for answers.


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