# LED/T5 Veg, 400W HPS Flower SCOG Cabinet



## cruzer101 (Oct 24, 2008)

*Grow Journal*
*Cabinet grow SCROG*
*Three months time, Clone to Harvest.*​ 
*LED/T5 veg. 400w HPS Flower.* 
*Hydroton medium, drip system**120 cfm intake fan and vent, *
*2x**120 cfm exhaust fans.*​ 
*Flora and Foxfarm Nutrents.*
*Cabinet size 36X18 inches*​ 



Overview
Lots of Pictures!​ 

I had a female Apollo that was getting ready to flower and I noticed all the lower 
growth on her and decided I would try a screen of green with it. I pruned the lower branches 
and took12 clones. Those I vegged for 26 days under LED and T5 Lighting.​ 
Out of the twelve I took the best 6 plants and made a scrog (screen of green) 
and then switched to the 400 watt sodium.​ 
I am no pro at this but I do have a couple grows unde my belt and have read a lot.
My thinking is to use LED lighting to help the plant mature faster and complete the 
first grow in three months. I will take cuttings just before flowering and veg them while 
the first grow is flowering. Then I will have a harvest every two months. I am hoping for 
2 oz of dried bud per harvest. That way I have an oz a month for smoke.​ 
Lets start at the beginning.​


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## cruzer101 (Oct 24, 2008)

Day 1
Taking clones.
I got some Clonex gel and solution. A clean razor blade and rapid rooter plugs.​ 



 
I added the solution per directions and one drop of super thrive to distilled water in 
a one gallon container and poured some in a plastic tub. As I took the cuttings I put 
them in the tub making sure the cut end was under water.​ 



 
I use rapid rooter plugs because you dont need to soak them in ph 5.5 water overnight and they dont retain 
as much water as rock wool. (I always over water rock wool) The 
trick to it is you split them down the center so the cutting touches the medium.​ 



 
Time to prepare the cuttings I will show you how I do it.​ 



 
Trim the leaves that will stay​ 



 
Remove the last one​ 



 
Cut on a 45 degree angle right below the node. (where the leaf was attached) 
I usually use a razor blade but I couldn't do that and take a pic at the same time.​ 



 
Then I slice the stem up the center and scrape the sides.
(This is best done under water)​ 



 
Dip it into the cloning gel, up to where its going into the medium.​ 



 
Place it into the rapid rooter plug and put it in a tray that holds the cube together.
Or you could just use a twist tie. Then place them in the larger tray and cover them.​ 



 
You can get a growing tray and a dome but I found that was a little too big for my needs. 
I went to a local Wall Mart and got a couple baking pans with covers for a couple bucks. They work great. 
Now I spray the pan and the dome with water add the trays and put them in a dark place for 24 hours.​ 
After 24 hours you want to add a little light. You dont need much to start the process.
I used one t5 24 inch fluorescent but anything will do. If you want to use a high powered light like a 1000 watt HPS 
just make sure they are several feet away from it.​ 
I water every other day with the Clonex/super thrive solution,​ 



 

Water just enough to keep them damp for one week. Keep the dome damp by 
spraying it with water once a day. 
Keep your temps between 78 to 85 degrees. At first they look like they are dyeing but after a couple days 
you will notice the new growth, it will be a lighter shade of green.​ 
Day 6
Then remove a plug and look for roots popping out of the bottom. Once you see a few 
of them its time to put them into rock wool cubes. I use the 3x4 cubes with the hole cut 
in it. First get a container and add water, (I use distilled) add a drop of super thrive 
(1 drop per gallon) balance the ph to 5.0 Soak the cubes overnight.​ 
Next day Remove the cubes and give them a little shake so they dont drip and set them 
on a towel. Note * dont squeeze them as you will close up the airways.​ 
Now the rooter cubes are smaller then the hole in the rock wool cubes so you want 
to cut up a rooter cube and use that to fill the hole. No need to water at this point.​ 
Now its time to mix there nutes. I use Flora Nova Grow for the veg cycle and Fox 
Farm's Big Bloom and Tiger Bloom for Flowering. Tiger Bloom helps promote bud sites.​ 



 


For now I mix Flora Nova in distilled water at 600 ppm 
Then PH balance the water to 5.7
Next week I will use 1200 ppm​ 
I Keep them damp not soaked by watering every other day. You want to water right where the cubes meet each other the first couple times. After that dont get any water on the rooter cube, just water the rock wool cube in one place until it drips out the bottom.
You can hand water, I built a drip system for them.​


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## cruzer101 (Oct 26, 2008)

Got all the tubes and fittings at OSH for under $20 then I got a 5 gallon tub for a reservoir and a sweater box for the tray. That was about $15 and a sink drain $8 so the grow tray will drain back into the reservoir.

The pump I got at an aquarium store. 200gph power head. Used in underground filters.
I think that was around $30 

Kept the temps between 75 and 90 degrees.

Now its time for proper lighting at 18 to 24 hours a day. 
I use a combo of LED and T5 fluorescents. For Leds I have three 14 watt panels (homegrownlights.com) and four luxum star royal blue. 
For Fluorescents I have a sunlight supply hood (sun blaze 24) that has 4 24" high output bulbs. I use 3 5000k bulbs and one 3000k to veg. 
Oh, I also have one 24 watt high output strip lamp under the led array for side lighting. Each bulb draws 24 watts and puts out 40 watts. So the plants receive 200 watts of fluorescents plus the benefit of the perfect wavelength the led will provide. 

Based on the fact plants only use 10% of the wavelength of a standard light I am 
drawing 46 watts of electricity but it is the equivalent of 420 watts of standard lighting. 
This means a total of 620 watts of power while drawing 213 watts and no heat issues.
(Not until I run the 400w)
See how fast they grow in the following pictures. I took one picture a day.


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## cruzer101 (Oct 26, 2008)

Day 7



 
Day 8​ 



 
Day 9​ 



 
Day 10​ 



 
Day 11​ 



 
Day 12​ 



 
Day 13​ 



 
Now the roots are comming out the bottom of these cubes so it is time for the pots.
I use square 5 inch pots and fill with Hydroton medium. (I was short 2 pots)​ 
Day 14​ 



 
I had to re-arange them. I put the larger ones on one side and tilted the light.​


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## cruzer101 (Oct 26, 2008)

Day 16 
Woops, one is not getting enough water.



 
Day 17​ 



 
Day 18​ 



 
Day 19​ 



 
Day 20​ 



 
Time to prune the lower branches, I take of the bottom set.​ 
Day 21​


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## cruzer101 (Oct 26, 2008)

Day 23​ 



 
Day 24​ 



 
Now its time to Pick the best six plants for the flowering stage. They are now about 
8 to 10 inches tall. Here is what we got.​ 
Day 25​ 



 

If you look closely you can see I added a piece of poultry fence as a screen to train 
them with. I dont have a lot of vertical space so we need to use all the space we can.
This is called screen of green. SCROG​ 
I see a lot of people refer to this type of grow as sea of green but that isnt correct.
Sea of green grows are several plants like 15 in the same space. 
Here I use fewer plants and train them to grow into the screen horizontally. Then just the buds grow vertically.​ 
Here are some examples of training the plants.​ 



 




 
The idea is to let the plant grow past the screen a couple inches and gently bend the stem under the wire. You can use twist ties if you like, 
or just bend them under. Within a day or so they will continue to grow towards the light and you do it again.​


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## cruzer101 (Nov 5, 2008)

After a week of this its time to fire up the flowering lamp. I use a 400 watt HPS.
Because my cabinet is only 18 inches deep I needed to make a custom cool tube.​ 



 

I went on eBay and got a Pyrex tube. They used to sell them to bake with. 
They are called bake a round. I guess you made bread out of them. There are several 
DIY cool tube instructions on the internet. I will spare you the details. I use a 120 cfm 
duct booster fan attached to the back of it behind the cabinet. Works for me.​ 
So on a typical day first the leds come on for an hour and they get watered for 30 min.​ 



 
Then the HPS warms up....​ 



 
Then flower time.
Day 26



 


The cabinet is vented outside through the light fixture. There is an intake of fresh air at the base of the plants, also additional exhaust next to the lamp and circulating fan hanging on the right. A couple trays of water on the bottom to maintain the correct humidity


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## cruzer101 (Nov 5, 2008)

Now I add my custom reflector.
Here is a shot from the plants point of view​


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## cruzer101 (Nov 5, 2008)

Day 29​ 



 
The left side seems to be doing better than the right...​


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## cruzer101 (Nov 5, 2008)

Ok One month old and starting to pre-flower. Here is a close up.​ 



 
Shot of the top of the canopy...​ 



 
_______________________________________________________________
2nd week flowering /26 day veg​ 



 
PPMs at 850. PH 5.7 watering twice a day for 30 min. Temps 71/95 
I change the res once a week. (3 gal.) add a gallon of distilled every other day.​ 
I think we got one more week of stretching, seems to be filling out well enough.​


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## cruzer101 (Nov 5, 2008)

Well it looks like the weaving is over and its time to let them grow buds.
Here are a couple closer shots.​ 



 



 
The LEDs make them look cool​


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## cruzer101 (Nov 5, 2008)

If you look close you can see the trics forming.​ 



 
Here, I cropped it​


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## zags (Nov 5, 2008)

Enjoying the journal cruzer. starting my first real grow shortly, from seeds, two bag seeds of no idea what and two Afghans from Nirvana. 

Couple of questions:

1. Are the rapid rooter plugs reusable?
2. I saw your hydro grow journal, and I see you are doing this cabinet grow (i'm doing mine in a tent btw), what made you ditch one for the other? and do you have a preference?


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## cruzer101 (Nov 5, 2008)

The Canopy is filling out real nice. I cut all the lower leaves that were not getting light.
Now I am keeping ppms at 1400 with Fox Farm nutes.The PH between 5.7 and 6.5.​ 




 
Temps outside have been in the 100 degree range so I added an extra air stone to the 
reservoir to help them get oxygen and foliar spray with distilled water mix with Chi. 
thats a general hydroponic product. Seems to help.​ 



 




 
_______________________________________________________________​


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## cruzer101 (Nov 5, 2008)

zags said:


> Enjoying the journal cruzer. starting my first real grow shortly, from seeds, two bag seeds of no idea what and two Afghans from Nirvana.
> 
> Couple of questions:
> 
> ...


 
Welcome Zags,

No you cant re-use the plugs, well if your lucky you cant re-use them. If the clone dies then sure you can. They are cheap.

Cabinet uses much less space and its stealth. nobody can tell I am growing. less to worry about.


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## cruzer101 (Nov 5, 2008)

I think I get better pics when the HPS is not on yet.​ 



 
I think I have maximized the growing area pretty good with this.​


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## cruzer101 (Nov 6, 2008)

Temps have come down some, just in time too. The cabinet was hitting mid ninetys.
I have grown this strain before and knew it could take the heat though.​ 
I think I will see how much this strain can take. Im starting this week at 1800ppms.
Lets see what happens​ 
Here are a few closer shots of the buds. They are starting to bulk up.​


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## cruzer101 (Nov 6, 2008)

Well 1800ppms was a bit much. the tips of the leaves curled a bit. I am backing off.
1200ppms this week.​ 
Here is a shot with just the camers flash.​ 



 
Lower half of cabinet, My next grow. By starting these now I dont need to keep a 
mother plant. By taking cutting just before flower I can get a harvest every two months.​ 



 
Bud shot.​ 



 
The LEDS just came on, Here is another shot​ 



 
Top of canopy​ 



 
Under the Canopy.​


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## cruzer101 (Nov 6, 2008)

Back to 1400ppms.​ 



 
Getting close to harvest.​ 



 
You can see the trichomes turning milky color.​


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## dontpanic (Nov 6, 2008)

Looking sooooooooooooooooo good cant wait to see the outcome!


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## zags (Nov 7, 2008)

cruzer101 said:


> ​
> _Lower half of cabinet, My next grow. By starting these now I dont need to keep a
> mother plant. By taking cutting just before flower I can get a harvest every two months._​
> ​


Great idea! Where from the plant do you take the cutting, and why?

Plus I see you've got 7 cuttings vegging, but are flowering 6; a backup?

I may have not read carefully enough, but I didn't see you mention anything about utilizing CO2, but see a bottle down there. I definitely like the idea of CO2 and increasing yield, but will try that after a couple of grows under my belt.

thanks again!


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## cruzer101 (Nov 8, 2008)

Hey Zags,

Yea I take the cuttings from the lower part of the plant. The bottom two off each and keep the best. Those have the most root hormones and they wont make it passed the screen to flower anyway. 

The co2 is experimental at this point. My problem is still heat from the light requires air-cooling and I am taking the air from inside. Im working on a vent.

Once I get that handled then yes, I want to get that regulated. Now its just on low and its getting sucked out.
​


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## cadenza11 (Nov 8, 2008)

very very nice
kiss-asskiss-ass


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## cruzer101 (Nov 8, 2008)

cadenza11 said:


> very very nice
> kiss-asskiss-ass


Thanks Cadenza


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## jbrain420 (Nov 9, 2008)

Agree, Very very nice.

So what you yield off a cabinet of that size? I'm looking at something similar, But was leaning more towards growing in soil, because I live someplace that could loose power for a day or two. Do you think hydro does better?


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## cruzer101 (Nov 9, 2008)

Hi Brian, 

The yield varies; So many things can affect it. I&#8217;m figuring I will get a couple ounces of dried smoke out of this one but I have thought of a way to double that.

My next grow I am going to use a different strain. White Widow: Mostly India plant that bushes out more and possibly fim them. The other thing is to use the growing area more efficiently by raising the screen up the walls further.

Only time will tell.

As far as what type of medium to grow in, if you can tend to your plants on a daily bases Hydro is better. You have more control over the growing cycle. Plants grow faster and react to treatment faster.

Soil has its benefits as well. In soil you go a couple days without any attention no problem. Soil acts as a buffer and is easier to keep the PH in line. Soil will retain the moisture longer so if they don&#8217;t get watered for 3 or 4 days it&#8217;s no problem.

Just be sure you get the right soil. From what I understand you want a good potting soil without nutes added. Add your own. Mixed with perlite and some sand. You can find the mix here on RIU FAQ

Good luck man,
Thanks for stopping by​


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## Single White Pistol (Nov 10, 2008)

So how are those LED's? Cool to the touch? You could probably grow these just using those panels right? So cool! Everything looks really good man. In it for the harvest.


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## Cloud9nine (Nov 10, 2008)

i really like your set up very nice 
keep it up


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## dontpanic (Nov 10, 2008)

Bump this grow is the shizniz cant wait to see it finished up and was j/w along with SWP is there any heat off the leds?


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## cruzer101 (Nov 10, 2008)

Single White Pistol said:


> So how are those LED's? Cool to the touch? You could probably grow these just using those panels right? So cool! Everything looks really good man. In it for the harvest.


Hey Pistol,
Yea you can hold leds in your hand they are barely warm. What I read was that plants use only like 15% of regular light. Well I bought three kits from homegrownlights.com. Each one covers one sq foot. I mounted them on some masonite with a couple T-5's and made an array.

Thing is I dont think they help in flower that much. At least right next to that 400W I dont think they make that much difference. So Im moving the leds to a lower shelf and gonna veg some white widow there. I think I will take some WW clones and flower them side by side "LED vs HID same cabinet" that would make a cool journal eh?
See ya at harvest.​


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## dontpanic (Nov 10, 2008)

that journal would be the shit cant wait till harvest see you there!! tell the girls i said whats good!


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## cruzer101 (Nov 11, 2008)

Everything was going just fine untill today. I must admit I havent looked closely at them 
in a few days. Today I see I have an infestation of Spidermites. 
This web wasnt there three days ago. Dam they multiply fast.​ 



 
It seems to be contained to four of the buds on the left side of the cabinet.
That explains why the right side was doing better than the left.​ 
I got some bug killer "Safer" brand and just sprayed them​ 



 

I figure it will only kill the mites in the web. The damage to the plants is already done.
Oh well, I always wanted to try and make hash. I will make hash out of the plants with 
the dam bugs.​ 
I am going to flush now...​


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## marc413 (Nov 15, 2008)

thats such a bummer bro .... all was going so well too


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## dontpanic (Nov 15, 2008)

soooooooooooo whats next?!


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## cruzer101 (Nov 16, 2008)

I flushed for a week with distilled water and harvested them. Here is a shot of the root system of one plant as you can see although I wartered the corner of the cube the roots grew out all around the bottom of the rockwool cube and the hydroton.​ 



 
I took a cardboard box and ran fishing line across the top, hang them then let them sit uncovered for a week to dry. This is one plant.​ 
Sorry about the fuzzy pic. I got fuzzy pics of the buds too but I will spare you.​ 
Here is the first plant, we got 5 more to go.​ 



 
Next I put them in jars and sealed them for two weeks to cure.​ 



 
I opened the jars once a day to see if there was any moisture but there wasnt any.​ 
So here are the results, out of the three with the spider mites 
I got 28 grams of dried bud. 
Thats the black jar.



 
Out of the other three plants I got 45 grams of dried bud. Clear jar.​ 
Total: 73 grams of killer bud in three months.​ 
Now I start flowering the cuttings I took from this batch and I will have another couple ounces in two months. 
Then the cycle will continue four times a year.​ 
I figure this set-up produces 2.5 to three ounces every two months. (2.5 with mites)
Without insect problems thats 18 ounces a year.​ 
My power bill has jumped about $30 a month. I spend about $60 for water and nutrients for the grow times 6 thats $360 a year. 
Plus the power thats $360 a year.​ 
So it cost me $40 an ounce.
Works for me!​


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## loh-pan (Nov 16, 2008)

amazing.
I had a fight with mites, but fortunately for me i won the fight. 

What is the height of the flower chamber and the height of the plants at the end?

about how far away from the HPS are the plants, do you need to move the light up away from the plants? 

DO you have a filter for the smell, if so how is it placed?

and one last one, why did you choose to position the HPS that way and not length-wise?
kiss-ass


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## cruzer101 (Nov 17, 2008)

loh-pan said:


> amazing.
> I had a fight with mites, but fortunately for me i won the fight.
> 
> What is the height of the flower chamber and the height of the plants at the end?
> ...


Good to hear you won the fight, I feel I did ok. I will be ready for them when they come back though.

Height of flower chamber is about 36" The light is presently mounted attached to a duct fan keeping it cool, that takes about 4 inches so grow space about 32".

I grow the plants in pots that are about 6 inches tall up to about 10" so at 16 inches they hit the screen and train them in the screen to keep the height down.

The trick is to know when to stop training them and let them start going towards the light. It's usually the second week of flower. Thats when they are done stretching. Then they grow up all together and maintain the right height. Starting at 16 inches away and growing up another 8 inches so when they are done they are about 8 inches from the light. The light is air cooled. You can hold it in your hand.

I love the smell, so I vent inside this room. If I wanted to hide the smell I would go get a hepa filter and cut it to fit my exhaust. Its a small space.

I put the light sideways because I plan on growing up the side of the cabinet next time. Use more of the available space.

​


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## loh-pan (Nov 17, 2008)

Thanks man. 
I like dwc but the reservoir takes a lot of room. i think a drip or ebb n flow is much better suited for a stealth set-up.

Smell is going to be a factor for me, tho i love it too! You think that a hepa filter would do the trick for this size room(maybe with some odour removing gel)? I was thinking that a 4" inline fan and a carbon filter would be required. It would be a little overkill(at about 180cfm), but i need it scent free. I could hook up the fan to some kind of regulator to tune it down a bit. 

I see your drip changes position when the roots appear and the clones are placed into pots. It changes from dripping into the rockwool cube to the hydroton. 
I'm not at all use to drip systems and would like to ask how long you drip for and how many times a day?

It seems to me, working with DWC, that the plants wouldnt get the water/nutes they need to grow if the roots dont sit in the nutrient mixture. 
Does the solution fill the plant pots and slowly drain out or does it just drip through the hydroton?

thanks for this journal and your answers.


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## loh-pan (Nov 17, 2008)

I just read that your hydrofarm drip is: 1 hour on, one hour off while lights are on. 
Then on for 1 ½ hour twice during the night to keep them moist. is this the same as this drip system?


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## cruzer101 (Nov 18, 2008)

loh-pan said:


> I just read that your hydrofarm drip is: 1 hour on, one hour off while lights are on.
> Then on for 1 ½ hour twice during the night to keep them moist. is this the same as this drip system?


The hydrofarm journal had bigger pots and was moving a lot of water. I had drilled out holes in those upper containers and added air stones. I was growing 3 foot plants. 

These stay much smaller; I water 30 min twice a day. And yes, I try and move the water to the edge of the cube/hydroton. That way one side of the cube stays dry and they get there air. Doesnt always work. Depends on how large the root system has grown. 

The key is not to get the rooting plugs/rockwool area to wet. Let it wick from the hydroton. Plants dont like water at the top of the root system. Thats way in DWC you have a gap.

Actually, I grew a mother plant and watered the hydroton only for 24 hrs a day and it grew like crazy. If I were to water her at the rockwool cube it would have smothered her.

When you think about it, Hydroponics was developed to grow plants in water starved countries. Places where there was very little water.

But now, when it comes to growin our grass we use all kinds of water. LOL 


I use 5 gallons a week. Three gallons in the res, nutes at half strength. Two days later I add a gallon of fresh, then a gallon in another two days. That tops it off twice. Then start again. I figure my plants drink about 1/2 gallon a day.

I use a 250 gallon per hour pump but thats because I am pumping water up two feet or so. If your on a somewhat level surface 100gph pump or power head will do.
To make sure they all get the same amount water you can get 1gph drippers.

DWC does grow plants 10 to 20% faster but I dont really have the space nor do I want to have to haul twice the water and use twice the nutes. But it may work for you.

Good luck and glad to be of some help.
​


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## loh-pan (Nov 18, 2008)

I have an idea for a cabinet to keep it all stealth with regards to smell. 
I had an idea about preventing smell while wondering around the duct work section of the hardware store. hopefully some activated carbon used in an aquarium can be made to make a pouch and secure it to the duct booster fan. 
all just an idea now.

I have a lot to learn about drip and i would like to try scrog. I think i have a much better understanding of it reading your thread.

Thank you for your help and hopefully i'll be back with some results.


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## jonnynobody (Nov 28, 2008)

Great grow journal bro, very detailed pictures! It seems like you've got your scrog technique down nicely for maximizing that small space. I was just curious about your cloning process...you mentioned that you take cuttings near the end of flowering and you nurse them in the flower cab? I've never cloned before but I was under the impression that a 12/12 light cycle is not ok for vegetative growth and may stress the plant?? 

In my upcoming project, I planned to keep a separate mother / veg cab but if it's cool to keep clones in the same cab under the same light cycle as the flowering plants, your technique is perfect.


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## beennoobed (Nov 28, 2008)

yea im also interexted in ur cloning method..


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## cruzer101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Hey Johnny,

I guess i didnt explain it right. I take 2 cuttings from the bottom of each plant right before they go into flower. Then clone and veg them in the lower shelf while the upper shelf is flowering.

Clones take a week or so to root in the rooter cube then I put it in the rockwool cube. I feed them by hand. I hold the rockwool cube and dip it in the nutrient solution for about 6 to 8 seconds. In about a week I can see the roots coming out of the bottom of the rockwool cube but I leave it alone and the roots are air pruned.

This builds a short but stocky root system in the cube over the next 6 weeks. I top them to keep them short.

The week before transplanting I slowly back off to about half the water I usually feed them and get there new home (hydroton) real moist. I give them a dip and put them in the hydroton. No need to worry about transplant shock because I am moving the whole root system. 

Then I start the top feed with the drip system. 1 gph drippers. 30 min a day. The run off goes into the hydroton and the roots follow. Another thing I didnt mention is along with the top feed I have a second line that runs across the top of the hydroton next to the cube and free flows (no dripper) into the hydroton. My thinking here is plants do not need water at the top of the root system especially during flower.

By dripping at one point of the cube the other 3/4 of the cube stays dry. and the water or solution drips into the hydroton.
By adding the second line I am adding moisture right to the roots. 

I take two more cuttings from each and start again. Keep the best and toss the rest. I hope that clears things up.​


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## jonnynobody (Nov 30, 2008)

I like that process...simple perpetual harvest, very nice.

Will have to try that with my tomato garden  gotta have my tomatoes!

BTW. were the LED's a purchase you're satisfied w/? (I.e. did they perform as well as you expected).

Also, do you think scrog is more effective from clone rather than seed or does it matter at all?


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## cruzer101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Thanks, I try to keep things simple. Doesn't always work.

About the LEDs 
I have found them to be extremely effective when the plant is small. Unfortunately when the plant becomes six inches or so tall they just dont have the penetrating capability to reach the lower leaves, add that fact to the dominate power of the 400w and they are a waste of space in the flower area. 

Think of it like a flashlight compared to a cars headlight. Side by side and you dont even see the flashlight right?


I removed them from my flower area and I am going to use them on the walls of the veg area.

SCOG
No need for a screen until you want to train the plant.​


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## beennoobed (Nov 30, 2008)

nicely said n accomplished!
n.e new pics?


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## cruzer101 (Dec 1, 2008)

beennoobed said:


> nicely said n accomplished!
> n.e new pics?


 

Pics? 

Do I have Pics?

I thought you would never ask! 

LOL I cant stop taking them. I take about 20 every night. Load them on my pc. Change my wallpaper to the latest fav and stop by here.


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## beennoobed (Dec 3, 2008)

so mayb i should ask if you could show us some new pics?
is that better or would u like me to ask in a different way?


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## cruzer101 (Dec 4, 2008)

My bad,

I just kinda figured the journal was finished. 
No Problem here are a few shots of the next batch. 
Here is the first week​ 







I lost the center one. I accidently over nuted.​ 
Oh well, I lost one but the others have more bud sites so I guess it made up for it. 
Here is next pic.​ 








I have made some modifications.​ 
First off I am using window flower boxes and planting a row of plants. I am thinking it will give them more room to root. 
I needed a larger veg area so I cut a hole in the lower shelf and extended the drain and put the reservoirs on the bottom of the cabinet. This gives me the whole lower shelf to veg. I mounted the sunblaze t5 HO lamp on the lower shelf. I still havent added the LEDs yet, but I get like 8000 lumens from the sunblaze light alone. It has four 24 high output T-5 bulbs that are 24w to run but put out like 40W each. For bulbs I have four 6500k and two 3000k bulbs so I can mix. Right now there is 3 6500k and one 3000K.​ 

Then I cut another hole in that shelf and added a second res on the bottom.
Now I have a flower res and a veg res.​ 
I cut a hole in the top of the cabinet and vented air from outside into the lights ventilation so thats inclosed now. Thats the yellow thing. It vents up and out and at the same time makes it easier to see.​ 

I removed the LEDs from the flower area and got more space to grow. At 5 weeks into flower I stopped watering the cubes and I am watering the hydroton only.​ 
The other thing I found out is if I un-hook the screen from the sides of the cabinet at this stage it supports the branches on the outside better. Then I added batwings made out of cardboard and mylar to the sides to get more light to the lower buds.








Here is a shot without the HPS on, you get a better ides of what I mean. The buds are much bigger​ 




 



I bought some female white widow seeds and got three to pop so they will going in the mix this next round. 
Here is a shot of the babes today.​ 




 


As you can see I have put all my veg girls in 4" pots. I put some hydroton under the rockwoll cube and still dip them to water. 
Then when its time to move them up it will just slide right out and into the upper container.​ 
By then I will have removed the flower tray and replaced it with a ebb and flow tray. 
I cut this drain hole too big. Maybe one for veggin too.​ 

So that gets you up to speed on this grow.​ 

Thanks for stoppin by.​


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## beennoobed (Dec 4, 2008)

journals r never finished, just forgotten about, lookin nice n neat man...


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## potpimp (Dec 5, 2008)

Man what a great grow journal!! +rep to you!


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## MediMaryUser (Dec 5, 2008)

nice setup youve got there


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## cruzer101 (Dec 5, 2008)

Well Thanks everyone, I just love doing this and I cant share it with anybody I know because 
Im afraid they will get stoned and accidently let it slip, tell sombody and I will get ripped off.

OK here is what I did today.

Time to mount the leds in the veg area but the panel was a bit too large.

Here is what it looked like.







Then with power 







So I took everything off the board and cut a couple inches off each side and each end.







Then I used a silicon glue spray and attached the mylar







Then re-alinged the blue lights. The extra blue will help promote females in my next grow. I am starting with 10 seeds. 







When I mount the panels I bought and assembled from homegrownlights.com I made some spacers so they were not touching the board.







OK so I mounter it all, heres a pic of the new array.







here a pic with power.






Cool huh?

Now I can use this right next to my sunblaze T5

Heres a pic of my new veg area. Oh yea, I added a DIY ebb and flow system to automate the feeding. 
I am going to do the same up top once this batch finishes. I plan on harvesting Christmas if they are ready.








OK I know you want to see the buds. lol I am the same way.

Here is a shot of today before the HPS kicks in. I got a lot of wasted space on the sides and the back.







You can get a better idea of the changes I made up here in this pic. I am using flower boxes instead of single contianers 
and at this point I am watering strictly the hydroton. not the rockwool. See my batwings on the sides?

OK One close up of the front bud.







Sorry about the flash but without it you cant see the trichomes.

Now I have an even layer of buds across the surface and a second layer just under those.







This is going to be bigger than the last harvest and I have figured out how to improve on it again. 
My new goal is to get 4oz dried and cured out of each grow.

But I will save that for another post.

Thanks again everyone.
Feel free to add comments or ask questions.


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## 420 4 fun (Dec 6, 2008)

Hi Cruzer,

Thanks for the very detailed journal, I enjoyed it.
I am not new to growing, but I am checking out LEDs and how well they are and can perform. Seems like they are not at a point of replacing HPS in the flowering stages unless one does what you are doing, SCROG, and the grower uses some very high powered LEDs, like the newer upgraded ufos or the 300 watt panels. 2 of the 300 watters, I'd love to see that with a SCROG, on a 3x6 table.

I was meaning to ask you, you have 6 plants in flower, about how many tops do you have going with your second show in this thread? The 2nd one looks much better in regards to mass, I think you will dbl the last one, just a guess tho. What did you change on this one from the 1st one? You mentioed you would go up the sides and you added batwings.

One thing I would try with a scrog like yours, because you only have one light source, right in the middle, the 400hps, try to form the scrog like a big wide "U" to form an eqaul distance from the bulb. this way the farther away plants will get equal light and be denser buds, you will maximize the yield this way. When bigger shows o a scrog, they will have a 4x8 tray and 2 1000 watters over it.

I am a fan of the stadium/coliseum style.

Thats all I can think of for now, good luck with the harvest!!!


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## potpimp (Dec 6, 2008)

420 I bet two of those 300w LED panels would make a 1000w HPS dim in shame. I would guarantee it. Cruzer those are two _bushy_ little bitches man! I smell hash for Christmas


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## cruzer101 (Dec 6, 2008)

Hi 420,

I just counted them and I have 26 tops that are the same size and height.
Then about 1 1/2 inches down I have another 20 or so that are about 3/4 of that size. Then under those there are several small buds. The whole canopy is about eight inches thick.

I think what made the difference was the veg time. On the first grow I vegged for 26 days. On the second grow I had to wait for them to finish so I vegged for 60 days. That gave the plants time to mature. The second thing I did actually was an accident. I over nuted them when I started flowering. Like 1600 ppms for three days and this strain likes about half that. I killed one but the others recovered and produced more bud sites.

About the veg. something I realized after searching for info on bonsai mums. I kept them in the Rockwool cube the whole time. By doing that the roots that popped out the bottom died. This went on for over a month. I think I semi bonsaied (if thats a word) them. In other words I believe they will only grow to about 3/4 of there normal size because the roots were confined to the cube. This has its good points and bad points. Good obviously is cabinet grows do not have much space and they will not overgrow in the cabinet but the bad is the size of the buds would be 3/4 size too.

On the last grow I had an infestation of spider mites and didnt realize it until they made a web. That means they were sucking the juice out of my plants for weeks and I didnt know. I have been keeping an eye on this grow because I still have the dam things. This flowering I have taken preventive measures. I got a pest strip and safers spray. When I see a leaf with a few on it I spray the batch. The next day I spray with distilled water. I repete this about a week later to get the ones that hatch. So dar I sprayed this grow 3 times. This along with the pest strip (not the sticky kind) has kept them in check.

I put this vegging batch into small grow cups with some hydroton under the cubes. Not a lot because I dont have the height under there but we will see if my theory of the semi bonsai is correct.

In regards to the position of the light. I did that for two reasons. One was I vent straight out the back of the cab and that was a straight shot. The other was exactly what you had mentioned. I have seen stadium grows and I figured I would do a mini one. But instead of raising the outer plants I would just raise the screen up the sides and let them grow up it. I will try that next flower. I have four Apollo and three White widows. The Apollo will go on the sides and the widow in the middle. 

Thats the plan anyway. doesn't always happen as planned.

Thanks for the imput.​


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## cruzer101 (Dec 6, 2008)

Hey Pimp,

No kidding, Hash for Christmas. I got a set of bubble bags and made a few grams out of some shake I had. One of these days I will have enough balls to do it with buds.
I took pics, you guys wanna see?


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## jbrain420 (Dec 6, 2008)

cruzer101 said:


> Hey Pimp,
> 
> No kidding, Hash for Christmas. I got a set of bubble bags and made a few grams out of some shake I had. One of these days I will have enough balls to do it with buds.
> I took pics, you guys wanna see?


Yes, up those pics. I always wanted to get a set of bags. there just so damn expensive. How much shake did you use and how much did u get out of it. Lets say I have 10oz of leaves and shake. How much do u think I could get out of that?


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## 420 4 fun (Dec 6, 2008)

Hi Cruzer,

Next show, when your babies have rooted, make a mite solution in a salad bowl, take the babies one by one and submerse the whole plant into the solution, PROTECT the roots though.

Then go about your normal routine,

Then in a week or 2, before you upsize to the next pot size up, do it again.

Then during the vegging and flowering, spray them weekly with neem oil.
I did it about 2 hours before the lights came on, using a green light bulb to not awaken them. With your scrog, make sure to spray on the underside of the leaves, thats where the eggs are.
If you have solo plants in buckets or pots, you can do this individually to each one, just spray and rotate. Its real easy with 2 ppl

Anyways, this is what I used to do years ago, and it worked very well perhaps there is a better mite killer out there nowadays.


Please keep updates on your show, TY in advance





cruzer101 said:


> Hi 420,
> 
> I just counted them and I have 26 tops that are the same size and height.
> Then about 1 1/2 inches down I have another 20 or so that are about 3/4 of that size. Then under those there are several small buds. The whole canopy is about eight inches thick.
> ...


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## cruzer101 (Dec 6, 2008)

Ok here goes,

I had some shake from a previous grow, this wasnt just trim from around the buds it was fan leaves too. I wanted to make hash out of it. I heard it could be done by sifting through silk screens and then I saw bubble bags. I saw a utube video of this guy in Jamaica makin bubble hash. After looking them up on the internet I liked the idea but not the cost. Then I checked ebay and saw the original and the knockoff. Well, I bought the knockoff for about half the price of the original.


The set I got has 5 bags 220 150 75 45 and 20 
The bubble bags have a bag between 220 and 150, they have a 190 that helps remove more of the debri before you get good hash. 
I figured the hell with it half price for the bags and I will smoke the debri.​ 
It worked. I got about 3 grams out of about 4 sandwich baggies of shake.​ 
Here I am getting started, I have all the bags in the bucket, got to have lots of ice.​ 



 
Mix it for 30 min.​ 



 

I used a cake mixer after a few minutes of mixing with a big spoon.​ 




 
You get that frothy look to it then let it sit for 30 minutes.​ 
You take out the first bag and set it aside. You are doing to do this again.
Then the other four have various grades of hash.​ 
You get a clean towel and use the pressing screen that comes with the bags.​ 



 

.Then you put the wet hash on the screen and cover with towel and press it​ 



 
The dark stuff is out of the 120 bag, the lighter the color the finer the hash.
The 120 isnt that great, actually you could cook with it. But the rest is great.​ 
Well like they suggest I ran it again and got about the same amount.
Here is the take.​ 



 
So, It took a couple hours but I got rid of that shake and have some nice hash.
I think I paid about $70 for the bags so I feel I am even. 
But now I can make it whenever I have shake.​


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## potpimp (Dec 8, 2008)

MMMmmmmmmmm!!! Man that is fantastic. I am going to get me some bubble bags too. I gave away all my shake last year but not this year!


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## 420 4 fun (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Cruzer,

Try a power drill next time, with one of those paint mixxer thingys attached, those work pretty good. 

How does it burn and taste? Good high?


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## 420 4 fun (Dec 8, 2008)

oh ya, forgot to mention, if you had mites in your crop, I would never smoke the finger hash, cuz their carcasses are in it, hehe,


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## cruzer101 (Dec 8, 2008)

potpimp said:


> MMMmmmmmmmm!!! Man that is fantastic. I am going to get me some bubble bags too. I gave away all my shake last year but not this year!


 
Ha, I did the same thing. Now I can make hash, I keep it all.
Ya know some people say just to use the bud trim. I use it all.


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## cruzer101 (Dec 8, 2008)

420 4 fun said:


> Hi Cruzer,
> 
> Try a power drill next time, with one of those paint mixxer thingys attached, those work pretty good.
> 
> How does it burn and taste? Good high?


Thanks for the tip, I will get a paint mixer thingy. I caught the bag a couple times in the mixer I have and although it didnt ruin the bag I figure it cant be good to do.

Taste? awesome. High? even better.

It had been so long since I had some I had to go get a pipe. If you need to get one look into monkey pipe. It's small, closes to keep stash from falling out when you put it in your pocket. Cleans easy and has vents so the smoke doesn't get hot. Cost Like $20​


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## cruzer101 (Dec 9, 2008)

Hey this camera takes video too.

check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL7IRI41Wzc


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## cruzer101 (Dec 15, 2008)

Hi People,

Well the dam spidermites came back and I shot them with safers spray again. 
Then the next day sprayed them with water and It looks like I killed them again.

I sure hope so because I am down to my last line of defence. In this style of grow 
you remove the lower leaves to begin with so I only had a couple sets of fan leaves 
above the screen and I am down to the last set.







It seems to take them a week or so to hatch so it looks like I just made it.







Beginning week seven. Some trichs are milky, a few amber but there is still some clear. 
Although I wanted to blast them with nutes I am afraid I will burn the buds so I dropped ppms 
to 400 and started a pre-flush for week seven.







I also dropped the lights from 12/12 to 10/14. I read it increases resin production.
By doing do I have noticed new bud growth. Weird, I thought it would stop the growth and make them 
finish faster. Maybe it just takes a couple days to take effect.

My veg area is coming along fine. I have started LST on the apollos and I FIM'ed one of the Widows. 







My plan for the next grow is to put screen up the sides and the back. Take the four apollos and run then up the sides. 
Then one FIM'ed widow in the middle and up the back with the other two widows not topped but 
bent for about eight inches then up and get two big colas.
This way I will be able to tell what is the best way for me to grow this strain in my setup.







Before I bought the widow seeds I read some journals and found the greenhouse strain of widow was IMO 
the purest strain and it is nute shy like the apollo so there will be no problem with ppms lower then usual.​


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## strangerdude562 (Dec 17, 2008)

Dude your grow is inspirational, in a few weeks i will attempt a 250hps cabinet scog.


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## cruzer101 (Dec 17, 2008)

strangerdude562 said:


> Dude your grow is inspirational, in a few weeks i will attempt a 250hps cabinet scog.


 
Thanks Dude,

I wish you all the luck in the world.
This is a great site where you can pick up all the knowledge you need.

Initially I was going to go with a 250w Lots of people do. I wanted to see if I could do it with a 400w. Air cooling it works. Although I am sure a 250W will be much easier to keep cool I think having 400w will get me bigger buds.​


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## cruzer101 (Dec 17, 2008)

Day 52 of Flower,
Done with nutes today. Most of the trichs are milky a few amber. 








Its time for final flush.








Flushing with distilled ph 5.7 to 6.0 water with a little Flora sweetener I got as a free sample.

Looks like a few days before christmas.

I looked at my veg area and decided I needed some more room. 
When I added the sunblaze light I lost a couple inches.







So, I took a good look under the shelve and thought I could use some of that room. 









I cut a section of the shelf out 









Attached it with some chain I had.









Tested it out.








Now I have much more room! Amazing what four inches makes in a cabinet grow. 
My girls are very happy.

















Heres a better idea,









Anyone think thats too far away from the widows?





​


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## 420 4 fun (Dec 18, 2008)

It looks pretty damm dialed in bro!!!!


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## strangerdude562 (Dec 18, 2008)

Badass!!!!!!!


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## cruzer101 (Dec 18, 2008)

420 4 fun said:


> It looks pretty damm dialed in bro!!!!


 
Ha Ha, Right on bro.

Yea, every time I catch a buzz I start tweeking on the cab.
(and thats every day for now)​


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## cruzer101 (Dec 21, 2008)

Well I cut today,
The last week I was on 10/14 and only 4 hours the night before harvest.
Seems to have made a difference, I wont really know until Its cured.

When I took them out of the cabinet and was able to see them i the sunlight I seen some blue or purple hues. Looks badass.

After all that "hard work" Im tired so I will get pics up tomorrow.​


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## 420 4 fun (Dec 22, 2008)

Woot, cant wait, 

throw up some pics of the manicured budz, so we can all take a shot at your final yield!!!


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## potpimp (Dec 23, 2008)

Fantastic!! Now just a few more weeks til you get some good smokeable bud. You gonna make some hash from the trim?


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## cruzer101 (Dec 26, 2008)

Hi People,

I just got back from Christmas at my sisters. I Hope you all has a good one.

Here are the pics I promised, First I cut all the stocks leaving the plants in the screen 
then just grab that and bring it to a table, I brought it outside to take a pic. 
I know its not very good shot but at least its not under the HPS.







Shot of the purple or blue hues












Hard to tell but they are there. Then to the table and cut.
I got a couple boxes I use. lol I used that same box bunch of times.
Got one box full here. Had to have a smoke break.








Here we go. 
I got the two boxes full with the buds and the shake in the green container and the trim from 
the buds in the bag. Oh yea, I missed a few times and cut buds. those are the loose ones in the dish.








Haven't weighed it yet. I usually wait till its dry. These pics were taken almost a week ago so I think 
tomorrow will be long enough. 

I already manicured them so they will go into a bag overnight then into jars. So here is a couple 
bud shots from harvest day. I will have weight tomorrow.
























​


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## Flo Grow (Dec 27, 2008)

Good job! What was the final height of your plants and how much was your dry weight?


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## potpimp (Dec 27, 2008)

Very excited for you Cruzer! The girls look great. It's always a satisfying feeling to chop them - after so much love.


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## cruzer101 (Dec 27, 2008)

Hey, Thanks Flo and Pimp.

Yes it is a satisfying feeling. I have done this a few times now and there are so many variables, Between flushing hanging and curing if you do anyone of those incorrectly you have problems. I have had weed that smelled funny, some that didnt burn right, some tasted like nutes, I think I have had it all. Its great when they come out right.

I was planning on taking them down today and bagging them. They feel dry, the stems dont snap but I have properly cured before in that condition. This time I have had somewhat high humidity around 55% or so and I am going to wait a couple more days. Besides today I had to fix the washer and dryer. Washer was leaking and the dryer was blowing circuits. Got that done.

Yes Pimp I do plan on making hash out of the shake and trim. I separated it this time to see what the different yield would be between them but I dont have enough unless I combine them. I guess I will do them together and that way when I have weight I will have the total weight of actual smoke. Buds and hash.

Boy, I am going to be busy tomorrow. ​


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## cruzer101 (Dec 28, 2008)

Hey everybody,

Today I trimmed the buds off the stems and got dry bud weight.
First I want to say when I first smoked this it rocked my world. I found a seed in one of the buds. 
I loved it so I grew it but I could never get the same taste or high. 
Well this batch came out Great! The buds are real tight and dense. Just full of trichs. 
I had the missed clips or the buds in the small bowl in a paper bag all week. I rolled one out of those 
and it was there. 

The taste, the high everything. I finally got it right.

Here is a shot,







Here is all the buds in a 5 gallon coffee container.







A closer shot







Then I weighed them, they all wouldnt fit in one bowl so I had to do it three times.








Then put them in a paper sack







My last grow I got about 72 grams of bud and 3 grams of hash out of the shake.
This grow I got 93 grams of bud. Very Happy with the quality as well as quantity but I think I can get about 25% more text time. 

I havent made the hash yet but I will let you know the weight when I do.

So, this is the end of this batch. I have learned to keep those spider mites in check and try to keep the root temp within 10 degrees of the ambient temp. The top of the canopy is always hotter by a few degrees. I also over nuted them there first week of flower. Maybe I will do that again. Then keep it low. Like a little less than half of whats recommended.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, Here we grow again! Lol

First I removed all the insulation and Mylar from the upper growing area. Then I wiped it clean with a water/bleach solution to try and kill the spider mite eggs.







Then I cleaned the drain tray and cut the sides down to about one inch, and added my rack. 







I got some oven liners and made a better reflector and added new insulation and Mylar.

I found that using the flower boxes instead of individual containers allowed the roots to grow bigger. 
I read that one plants roots will strangle the other and not to do this but I wanted to see for myself. No problem.

In case you are wondering why I didnt go with one big tub it is because I was trying to make a Fill and drain with a 5 gallon res. 
I was trying to cut down on the amount of water needed.

Heres a shot of what I came up with, didnt work this time.







After a day of fucking around with it I gave up and just drilled several holes on the bottom.

I wanted to make a Binford Tools Stinkbud 9000 like PotPimps (LOL I love that name) but couldnt get it done in time 
so I got two larger flower boxes and some PVC and made a custom 3 point drip system. Each of the plants has three outlets. 







There is one outlet on each side that stream water. Then one that drips on the cube. 
All outlets are individually adjustable.







Then I ran the chicken wire up the back as well as the sides and hopefully get a larger yield.
I plan on running the two widows in front towards the back and the center to the front.

Heres another shot, I have two Apollos on both side and three widows in the center.


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## nathan76296 (Dec 28, 2008)

This is a awesome grow man have any updates of the pictures or anything new?


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## HawaiianBudz (Dec 30, 2008)

very impressive. i love the led lights ,good stuff


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## cruzer101 (Dec 31, 2008)

HawaiianBudz said:


> very impressive. i love the led lights ,good stuff


Thanks man, Yea, I love them too. They really work great for small plants. Not to mention they look cool. I cant wait until I can use them exclusively. 

The nuggets I got from this last batch were very dense. I have seen LED grows finish and I just dont see nuggets like that.

PotPimps grow is exclusively led this time around maybe you would like ti check that out. Link: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/136182-potpimps-white-widow-grow.html 
I think he has 150 watts of them and I have like 65

I want to see 150 w led with a 400w HPS SOG
Or a 150w led, 250W HPS and a 100W uv in a sog.

Maybe I will do it after I start working again and got some spare cash. ​


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## cruzer101 (Jan 1, 2009)

Hey Guys,

I have the second crop in jars for a couple days now, I Open the jars and smell it once every day.







They got that hay smell on the second day.







This is like the third day and the hay smell is already going away!
I am surprised. This usually takes a week.

check them out.















I am Just about ready to flower the third batch. I will get some pics when they wake up.​


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## Flo Grow (Jan 2, 2009)

That is some real kind you've got the Cruzer! I like your style Homie!


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## Flo Grow (Jan 2, 2009)

Say Cruzer, your grow area is 36x18 inches, but how tall is it? 
How tall did your girls get?
Did you keep them in the 5 inch pots the whole time?

If you answered these already, then my bad! I can't remember........and I'm high as a giraffe's ass right now.

I want to do a Scrog myself with some Big Buddha Blue Cheese(10) or Mazar(5) beans I have.My Blue Cheese is feminized but the Mazar is standard. I'm hoping for one GOOD male Mazar so I can make some Blue CheeZar!! I have a 250w HPS and 4sq feet with 64 inches of head space. Take away 7" for my hood plus 12" for light distance to canopy and another 9" for container and top of soil.......leaves me 36" for total plant height. That means with the net set 8" above the soil, my plants can't get more than 28 inches above the net. I am building 2 wooden frames to hold 2 plants at a time with the net on top, so I can rotate 4 plants at a time for a perpetual harvest, as well as be able to rotate the plants under the light and they can be moved for easier feeding. Tell me what you think Cruzer. You have shown you can Scrog, so any input would be appreciated. Thanks and Grow Hard!!


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## cruzer101 (Jan 2, 2009)

Flo Grow said:


> Say Cruzer, your grow area is 36x18 inches, but how tall is it?





Flo Grow said:


> How tall did your girls get?
> Did you keep them in the 5 inch pots the whole time?
> 
> If you answered these already, then my bad! I can't remember........and I'm high as a giraffe's ass right now.
> ...




LOL, "High as a giraffe's ass" 
That&#8217;s a good one. That deserves a doobie.

Ah,
Ok ready now, 
Yea, the first time I did keep them in the 5&#8221; pots. I got like 73 grams. 
The second time I got the 24&#8221; flower boxes and got a larger root mass and like 93 grams. This time I got the 30&#8221; flower boxes and hope to get 120 grams. 

You got plenty of room man. I got 32" total height. 22" from the base of the plant to the light. The thing is, when doing a scrog you dont really need to worry about total plant height because you are growing sideways. Only the budsites grow vertically Even if they get too tall you can bend them.

Start your plants in a veg area, grow for a month or about 10' tall and top them. Let them sit for a week. Once you see new growth go ahead and move them to your flower area. let them grow vertically up through the screen about two to three inches. Then start training. the main stem as well as the branches. keep it all even with the screen, or right above it. You want one budsite for every hole in the screen but that never happens.

After about 2 weeks you will see a little more then half of the screen filled. So, now we are at about seven weeks. 

Now is time to look under the screen and get your next grow. What ever has not reached the screen by now will stay under it and not produce much.
These also have the most rooting hormones Take about twice as many cuttings as you want plants. Then keep the best ones. (You got 2 months to figure that out)

The rest under the screen can be removed and the energy will go to the buds.
I have tried it both ways and although I have a hard time throwing anything away it is best to clean it up and toss the plant material in the bin. (I make hash out of it)

Give them a day or two to recover from the cutting then It is time to go 12/12
They will grow real fast now and fill the rest of the screen in two weeks.

*The trick to getting the main cola the same height as the rest is to stop training at about two weeks into flower, That&#8217;s when they stop stretching.*

OK now you&#8217;re done. Watch them grow, the stem will get about 3 to 5 inches tall and grow a bud from there. Total height from screen 8 to 10 inches.

My last couple grows they never got more then 10" above the screen.
So if you want to talk vertical height from plant base it is like 18" and I am using a 400w. With a 250W you may want to stop training at 1 week into flower just to get more height. 

If I was just starting to build a 4x4 grow area and had a 250w hps what I would do is get another one. Then google DIY cool tube and get what I would need to make two. Then mount them side by side and connect the ends with ducting. Making a U shape. Put an inline fan on one end and vent it outside. Then an intake from outside to the other end. What I would have is a air cooled self contained lamp that gave off about 50,000 lumens and zero heat.

You could set it right on your plants if you want. I would run it 2 inches away from the top of the canopy. Now the 250 would have the penetration capability of a 400w or more. Probably more like a 600w would.

Hum, I guess I got to rambling, where did that roach go?


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## Flo Grow (Jan 2, 2009)

"Hum, I guess I got to rambling, where did that roach go?" LMAO.....fa sho'


Good looking out on pulling this noobies coat tail with the grow info.!! I've been reading ALOT these past two months. You have said the same thing as most articles and posts that I've read. I don't have a 4x4 area though....that's 16sq ft.....I wish. Mine is a Homebox tent 31.5" x 31.5" (equals 6.9sq ft), so I can easily play with a 2x2 area (4sq ft). I'm following the rule of 1 plant per square foot, so I can run 4 plants total or 2 sets of 2 plants about 30 days apart. Then I could harvest every 4 to 6 weeks. I've seen a few posts where cats were easily harvesting 3 to 6 z's with a solid 2 plant Scrog. I could come to like a 1/2 lb average every 2 months! I'll be using 3 gallon grow bags too.



I have a cool tube and will be air cooling it separate from my exhaust. That way I can get right on top of those girls! I'll be taking my cuttings from the bottom right before I flower, that way I don't have to wait for them to reveg.. The clones will be 30 days old just like the Mother. These cuttings will begun to show sex before I flower them, although I have nothing but fem seeds, but I'll be able to see some good characteristics for choosing an ulitmate mother plant for cloning only. Then I'll cross with a male Mazar on one or two branches for plenty of F1 seeds. When I do my grow, I might document it first, then post everything at once. I don't know yet, but I'll definitely hit you up for info/help during the grow, if need be. 

Thanks and Congrats again!!


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## potpimp (Jan 3, 2009)

Man that is beautiful!! I can just smell them.


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## Flo Grow (Jan 3, 2009)

I just ordered some Blue Mystic by Nirvana Seeds!


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## cruzer101 (Jan 3, 2009)

Congrats Flo!

You know you need to make a journal and keep us informed.....Right?​


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## Flo Grow (Jan 4, 2009)

I'll def do that when I'm up and running in about 3 weeks. I can't wait. I'm thinking of starting the Mazar and Blue Mystic first, since they're standard seeds. So I can get a good male and female from each to cross with one another. Female Mazar w/ male Blue Mystic and vice-versa. I also want some male pollen from each to cross with 2 Blue Cheese females, since I only have feminized Blue Cheese. Therefore, my first grow will be Mazar and Blue Mystic, then do Blue Cheese second for another cross. What do you think?

Mazar + Blue Mystic = Mystic Mazar

Mazar + Blue Cheese = Blue CheeZar

Blue Mystic + Blue Cheese = Blue CheeStic

LOL...........geedy like a kid in a candy store!!


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## loh-pan (Jan 5, 2009)

If they are F1 hybrids you wont get the best of both by crossing them. because they are selectively bred for specific genes, their offspring might not display the same phenotype as the parents. This is the 'hybrid vigor' that is present in F1 hybrids that is not always seen in the offspring.
You may know this and are looking to cross for a specific phenotype. Its generally best left to people who do this for a living and arent just consumers of bud but also producers for reputable seed companies.


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## Flo Grow (Jan 5, 2009)

Pump ya breaks Loh-Pan. I'm fully aware of the F1 situation. Whatever I decide to cross, they will display the same phenotype as the parents, it will just take growing more of them to see what I'm looking for. 

You think the "producers for reputable seed companies" walked in the door with a PhD in botany?! No, they decided they wanted to learn more about cannabis and hybrids by making their own. Crossing original strains doesn't even guarantee you the best of both parents because both parents also possess recessive genes. You have to grow the offspring in order to find what you're looking for as an individual. Maybe you're complacent with always ordering seeds or buying them in person, and believing you get what you asked for 100% of the time. These same reputable producers are not just selling original strains or F1's. Some sell the same type of seeds I'm going to make on my own. How many posts have you read where the grower is talking about different phenotypes with the seeds they purchased from reputable producers? At least half, I'd say.

If most people had your way of thinking, we wouldn't have all the choices we currently have. Generally, consumers ARE doing it for a living......their living, whatever that may be.

So you keep ordering and fall in line. I'll learn more and grow better due to the desire of gaining knowledge!

All that from a guy that joined 19 months before me, but has 1/3 as many posts and still "Learning how to roll" !!!


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## Flo Grow (Jan 5, 2009)

Sorry about that Cruzer101!! But I had to get that one off my chest! You know, I know, that you know what time it is. Simple minded people piss me the fuck off!!


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## cruzer101 (Jan 5, 2009)

Flo Grow said:


> Sorry about that Cruzer101!! But I had to get that one off my chest! You know, I know, that you know what time it is. Simple minded people piss me the fuck off!!


No problem man. Thats what fourms are for, along with sharing knowledge, expressing your opinion.

Thanks for the thought.

What time is it anyway?​


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## loh-pan (Jan 6, 2009)

All i was trying to say was that if you are trying to cross two types to get the best of both, it doesn't necessarily, and often hardly, works that way.
I wasent trying to aggravate you by threatening your knowledge or trying to ruin cruzer's awesome journal.
Sorry cruzer, i am just trying to help people out with their growing and sometimes it is misunderstood.


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## Flo Grow (Jan 6, 2009)

It's all good Lo-Pan.


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## cruzer101 (Jan 6, 2009)

Hey people,

Here's an update, I have been keeping the root temp around 70 degrees 
with that seedling heat map under the tray. It really has made a difference. I am seeing fatter stalks
and more lower growth that will fill the net in about a week.
I found that growing in the winter has its advantages.. Flowering at night I get about 80 degrees high. 
They go off an hour after sunrise.







I have been vegging them up here for a week now. Same Flora Nova and additives at around 500 ppm.
They have been using the nutrients, my ppms have been dropping and Ph holds pretty close. I top off with About a half gallon of R/O a day. 

We will start the flower nutes In a few days at 500 ppm
Flower nutes are: Fox Farm Grow big, Big bloom and Tiger bloom. I will give them one more shot of diamond nectar
with the flower nutes to help them make the switch. Thats what I did last time and I think it helped with the flush in the end.







I was training last night and I broke the main stem on one of the widows. Man they have a strong stalk. 
Well just like anyone else I freaked out for a second. I mean it was a clean break
I took of three small sets of branches!
.
I saw this stuff start to form on the ends so I lined the two pieces up and held them together for like 2 minutes 
while I was thinking of what I could use to prop it up and it kinda fused together.
I looked at the lines in the stalk and they were close to where they were before it broke and taped it up and supported it.. 

This was last night.







I use the tape from a band aid and propped it up. after an hour it looked pretty sad. But today?







The very next day not only the leafs were up but the shoots were looking fine too. I wouldn't believe it if 
I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. Man that was fast. 

So, we are happy again.







Here is a shot of the kids.







There one week old. I got six WW clones in the back row and ten Stinky Cindy seeds. They all popped. 
These I am going to have to sex. Been feeding them straight R/O. Clones are on clonex solution.​


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## potpimp (Jan 7, 2009)

Man those are looking sooooooooooooo nice!!! I need to take some cloning lessons from you. Seriously! You take your clones, put them in the rapid rooter, plug that into the RW and add your Clonex solution to the RR? That sounds like an awesome system. ...of course, the aero system that I built sounded like an awesome system too, LOL.


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## cruzer101 (Jan 7, 2009)

Hey Pimp,

Thanks for the complement but really I am just taking what I have learned here and tweaking it a bit. Basically I use Clonex cloning gel and Clonex solution. They all root.

Here ya go, clone 101 step by step

Mix Clonex solution and set aside. Get the gel and put some on a piece of paper or something you will toss out. Get clean razor blade or scissors and a rooter plugs.

It is very important you follow instructions carefully. Next Roll a doobie and smoke half. lol

Split the rooter plugs in half to about 1/4 inch below the hole. Now you are going to need something to hold them together. I use a tray that has sections that hold them together but I have used twist ties in a pinch.

Take your cuttings at the third node and cut that off on an angle. Remove the leaf thats there at the base. By the way if you leave a little bit of a nub the plant will try and grow roots from it but the root will go up. It sucks I done it so cut it clean.
Then take your blade and lightly scrape the sides of the stem at the end. This will grow more roots and faster.

Use a good amount of gel, cover the scraped sides. About ¼ inch up and the end. 
When placing the cutting in the cube make sure the bottom of the cutting touches the rooter cube. They have a pre formed hole thats too big so I split the cube and make sure its touching. I spray the tray with water and put them in. Then spray the dome and set it on top. Time to smoke the other half of the doob. 

I keep it Dark for 24 hours then 18/6 taking the dome off every day and spraying it again. This keeps them moist. After 3 or 4 days I take the dome off.

This is when I put them closer to the light. The light will evaporate the water in the rooter cubes in about 8 hours so I need to be careful here. Then use the Clonex solution to feed them. I feed about 10ml each. I top feed with a syringe. I make sure the cube has dried out some before I feed. I can tell by the color of the cube. It gets darker when it is wet. Keeping the temps of the root zone at about 80 degrees with a heating pad of some sort.

What I do different is take smaller clones, I think they root easier but they are smaller so it takes longer for them to gain height. But they all root. Thats important to me because once I start flowering I dont want to have to do it again.

Another thing is I dont spray the clone, just the tray and dome. Smaller clones do not need it and my thinking is they breathe better. After a couple days I look for the yellowing of the lower leaves. That tells me there rooting. Once the leaf has turned completely yellow I remove it. Now they have rooted and it is time to move them to Rockwool.

Anyway I soak my Rockwool cubes overnight in a mixture of tap water and super thrive at one drop per gallon and ph to 5.0 I have tried both tap and distilled and didnt see any difference. Well you dont need to set overnight in distilled because there is no chlorine.
I add superthrive to the water I soak the Rockwool in. Not the water I feed them with. I still feed with the Clonex for another week. Soaking the bottom of the Rockwool cube for like 10 seconds. That gives me aprox 30% moisture in the cube. It transfers to the rooter and by now the roots are in the Rockwool.

I use up the gallon or so of the mix of Clonex that I originally made then start my nutrients. Takes about two weeks altogether.

I think your fogger will work fine with smaller cuttings and temps at 80 degrees.
Then plop it into the fogger and put a wet dome on it.
Use about 500 ppm of flower nutes and some sort of root growth stimulator, keep temps at around 80 you would be good to go.

I have done some experimenting taking cuttings. My thinking was every time I take a cutting I have one less bud site so how could I minimize this. Well I go to the bottom of the plant and look for a shoot off one of the stems. If it has one set of leaves its a clone. The smallest clone I got to germ was less than an inch tall and had one leaf.

I dont need to do that in this type of grow because I cut out what doesnt make it to the screen after stretching but that is also two weeks into flowering so if I ever do have a clone that doesnt root I can get another one thats larger and hopefully it will catch up.

Oh, My girls just woke up.

Later.
​


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## potpimp (Jan 8, 2009)

OK, I threw out the dead or dying "clones" and started fresh. There were still a lot more lower branches to take the clones from and one of the plants had not even been touched (it was the small one). I numbered the clones so that I will know what plant they came from. I snipped them at a 45 degree angle just below the third node, split it slightly, shaved off the skin, docked the leaves of the second node, dipped it in cloning gel and stuck it in the collar and into the aero unit. When I got the unit filled up with 15 clones I put the dome over it and turned on the light. The water is pH'ed and nutes are at 335ppm. I added a drop or two of Superthrive. I'm going to give this aero unit ONE more shot. The water also has some Advanced Nutrients "Jump Start" which is supposed to help in cloning. It's got some funk growing in it but I strained it out. I was going to lollipop them again next week anyway - one final time. So nothing ventured, nothing gained. I did notice that the stems were a lot more soft further up than down next to the stalk. Here's the pix:


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## lilmafia513 (Jan 8, 2009)

wow, just read the entire thread. +rep to you Cruzer. Loved the step by step cloning, and the entire grow journal.


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## cruzer101 (Jan 8, 2009)

Looks good man. Spray water on the inside of that dome and keep it moist. You may need to do it a couple times a day. Oh, and close the vents on the dome for the first two days. You want 100% humidity. and 80 degrees. Thats important.

When you clone for sex from what I understand you want the lights at 12/12 right off the start and you should be able to sex in like three weeks.

By the way, 
As seen on RUI is cool but Binfords Stinkbud 9000 Rocks!

​


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## cruzer101 (Jan 8, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> wow, just read the entire thread. +rep to you Cruzer. Loved the step by step cloning, and the entire grow journal.


 
Wow, Thats a lot of reading. I thought I was the only one who read entire journals in one visit. Thanks man.


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## potpimp (Jan 9, 2009)

Two of the clones are standing at attention this morning but the rest seem to be sleeping still. I took the humidity dome off and sprayed them again. Do you think I should switch to a smaller CFL? I'm using a 65w now but I have some 26w. Haven't checked the temp in the cab but it feels like it's around 80ish, maybe a little over. I have another thermometer and another timer; I can use these if necessary. And what about rapid rooters, think I should stick them in rapid rooters?


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## lilmafia513 (Jan 9, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Wow, Thats a lot of reading. I thought I was the only one who read entire journals in one visit. Thanks man.


 I do it on late nights when i'm too high to sleep!!LOL!!!
Used your cloning steps last night on a vegging PPP. It was Like a breeze!!!! Got them in 24 hrs. dark right now untill tonight,then going to 24hrs light. Is that right?


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## cruzer101 (Jan 9, 2009)

potpimp said:


> Two of the clones are standing at attention this morning but the rest seem to be sleeping still. I took the humidity dome off and sprayed them again. Do you think I should switch to a smaller CFL? I'm using a 65w now but I have some 26w. Haven't checked the temp in the cab but it feels like it's around 80ish, maybe a little over. I have another thermometer and another timer; I can use these if necessary. And what about rapid rooters, think I should stick them in rapid rooters?


I thought the idea was to get that fogger going. You will know in a couple days. What happens is if the clone starts rooting the lower leaf will turn yellow. This is the plant taking the energy from the leaves and making roots. In your case you will be able to open it and see. During this process the plant does not grow. Kinda looks like its dying for a couple days. Then in about 4 days you see the new growth. It is light green and you know your on your way. The plant will straighten up again.

The way I see it is If you have too much light the cutting thinks it can still grow and it will die. Trying to continue to grow without and roots to supply it. Your tricking it with the light thing. I have had the same results with the 24 hour dark period and just keeping them under a 40 watt light for a week at 18/6 and 24/7. I go 24 hr dark because that is what I have learned. But I am the kind of guy who likes to see for myself. By not going 24hr dark at first I found they still root, just takes a few days to a week longer. 

The important thing is not the temp in the cabinet but the root temp. If the root temp is higher then the plant it seems to send the energy that way. Then you get roots. By not paying attention to the root temp I get about 50% success. By keeping it at 80 I root them all. I thought I saw a heating pad under your fogger so I didnt mention this again. 

I noticed most of your fan leaves were still full size. I cut them in half because thats the way I was shown how to do it.

Well, I tried not cutting them and they took longer to root.
The weight of the leaves bent the plant. Like yours. Once it did finally root it took a few days to get back up but it was a bigger plant to start with. So it has its good points and bad points. I believe by cutting them you are forcing the plant to send the growth hormones elsewhere. sort of like topping a plant. It sends the energy to the lower branches, well in this case to make roots. The sooner you have roots the sooner you can get to rapid growth stage.

I have had better success spraying the dome, not the cuttings. I am not sure why but I think it has to do with transpiration. Humidity is not water. It took me quite a while to figure that one out. It is a mix of water and air so it makes sense to spray the dome and not the cutting.

Well, it works for me. ​


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## cruzer101 (Jan 9, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> I do it on late nights when i'm too high to sleep!!LOL!!!
> Used your cloning steps last night on a vegging PPP. It was Like a breeze!!!! Got them in 24 hrs. dark right now untill tonight,then going to 24hrs light. Is that right?


Too High to sleep? Dam when I get real high... 

PPP? Awesome. I was buying seeds from Narvana and wanted to grow that but Nirvana had a warning to California customers and said it wasnt a good idea to ship at the time.

I found Seed Botique and got lost there looking at all the different strains.
Then I setteled on White Widow, Train Wreck and Super Silver Haze.
Got them and 5 freebies in about a week.

As you know I germed the Widows and got three out of five to pop.
Took six clones for the next batch. The rest is history.

Yea 24 hrs dark period then You can go 24/7 if you like. Just start with a small light for the first week.
From what I understand plants do not need a dark cycle untill flower.
On the other hand, I have read (from reputable sources) that the plant wont use but about 16 hours of daylight anyway. Something to think about when your running HID lighting in veg I guess.

Journal? 
Do I smell a Grow Journal in the works?​


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## lilmafia513 (Jan 9, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Too High to sleep? Dam when I get real high...
> 
> PPP? Awesome. I was buying seeds from Narvana and wanted to grow that but Nirvana had a warning to California customers and said it wasnt a good idea to ship at the time.
> 
> ...


 LOL...Thanks man, i already have a journal. It's in the sig. It starts off kind of dumb, but gets good. That's how many i just took last night 6 clones of the PPP. My next will be 6 off the WW. For a total of 12 plants flowering at once!
I use 24 hrs on my clones, then 18/6 for vegg., then 12 for flower. I can have all three areas going at once and only see a slight raise in my energy bill, but i use CFL's for cloning vegg, w/ a four foot shop light above.
Would you be able to spot a trainwreck from a pic if ya saw it?


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## cruzer101 (Jan 10, 2009)

Sure, its easy to spot them, They are big long heavy things that jump the track. Big Mess... Naw I couldn't do it. I haven't grown it yet. I got this stinky widow cindy to grow and I am sure I will want to do it a few times. Then I got the haze to start in here then transplant outdoors this summer. After all that, I will grow the train wreck. Even then I bet it would be hard to spot in a pic.​


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## lilmafia513 (Jan 10, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Sure, its easy to spot them, They are big long heavy things that jump the track. Big Mess... Naw I couldn't do it. I haven't grown it yet. I got this stinky widow cindy to grow and I am sure I will want to do it a few times. Then I got the haze to start in here then transplant outdoors this summer. After all that, I will grow the train wreck. Even then I bet it would be hard to spot in a pic.​


 Thats cool man, buddy gave me some seeds and said there was a mixture of seeds from some trainwreck, kush, and other name brand shit he had got over the past year. Just didn't know if i had some or not!!!


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## cruzer101 (Jan 12, 2009)

Ok,

Keeping the nute ppms 500 this time using Fox Farm. I really didnt realize what a difference root temp made. Now keeping the root zone and the res at about 70d canopy 85d

Looks like they are done stretching. I hope. We are 10 days into flower
and they have stretched as much as the others did in two weeks. Maybe more.







Like I said I am trying to make use of that space up on the sides. Got the stadium thing going on. I trained the widow at a 45d angle for about eight inches then up. I was going to have three widow colas in the center but I will have to settle for two. 
That widow top I thought mended? Well it didnt make it. 
Now the side branches on her are much larger then the others.
You can see she is just to the right of center. Little lighter in color.

On the sides is Apollo. After three grows I kept the traits I wanted and they grow like a bush so I didnt train then much this time. ​


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## potpimp (Jan 13, 2009)

Man those are looking killer!!


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## cruzer101 (Jan 13, 2009)

Yea man,

I bet this will be the best grow so far. I trained the widows a bit As far as the Apollos go I have just let them stretch. 
Oh and they were not done, shot up an inch all around last night. 

I hope I dont overgrow this thing.​


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## potpimp (Jan 14, 2009)

I didn't read the genetics when I bought my WW seeds but from what I see on my plants, they are probably 60% sativa. But sativa is my favorite anyway so it's all good. They do get tall though!


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## lilmafia513 (Jan 14, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Ok,
> 
> Keeping the nute ppms 500 this time using Fox Farm. I really didnt realize what a difference root temp made. Now keeping the root zone and the res at about 70d canopy 85d
> 
> ...


Hey cruzer, just curious, but is that a baking tray for a light reflector?
You might have mentioned it before, if so sorry for asking the same question again, I hate when people do that!!LOL!!!


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## cruzer101 (Jan 14, 2009)

Yea,

Good eye. Actually they are oven liners. This last thanksgiving I saw one in the bottom of the oven and thought it would be perfect to use as a reflector. I also use the same kind of baking thingy we put the turkey in for a clone unit.

I always got growing on the brain, lol

I went to wallmart I think it was and got them. 
They came in a package of two for like $5. Now I see most grocery stores carry them too. Cool thing is they are extremely light weight and if the plant pushes on them they will rise up. Well thats what I think will happen we will see.

I think whats going to happen on this grow is those plants on the sides will grow into the liners (reflector) and then move towards the light. lifting the liners a bit.

If I am wrong, I can just raise them. I got about five inches on the ends.
I always thought buds needed light on every side. Thats why people rotated plants in there grow. 
Well after doing this a few times I realised that buds do not need light all around them to grow fat. One of the biggest buds last grow just received light from one side.

We are all constantly learning Thats one of the things that makes this so much fun. Well that and seeing the results at harvest time.

I know what you mean about asking questions when the info is in the journal. Its like READ IT MAN. But I dont care right now, I got plenty of time on my hands for about one more week. Then it's back to work.​


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## lilmafia513 (Jan 14, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Yea,
> 
> Good eye. Actually they are oven liners. This last thanksgiving I saw one in the bottom of the oven and thought it would be perfect to use as a reflector. I also use the same kind of baking thingy we put the turkey in for a clone unit.
> 
> ...


Great idea, never would of thought of it. ...Idea!!!!

I think i'll make something up for my other light, let ya' know when i do!! Thanks man!


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## cruzer101 (Jan 14, 2009)

Day 11 of flower,

I was trying to get a shot before the light came on.









It went on just as I opened the doors. Still got a good shot. Now you can see the stretching better. 
I would have cleared the bottom growth already but I didnt want them to go even farther. 
That will all be gone this weekend. That will be two weeks into flower. 

Looks like I got it full this time... I could just see all those long stems just producd a tiny bud on top. ​


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## cruzer101 (Jan 22, 2009)

Ok, we are day 18 of flower so I guess they are done with there run.
here is a shot from day 14 flower, I was sweating.







I had to raise the reflectors I made to the top. But I think we will be alright.









Humidity has been extreemly high at some point when lights are off. I haven't had this much follige in 
here before so I am looking into a dehumidifer. 
I see one on ebay mini one that will work. I am going to try turning down the thermostate to like 65d and 
see if by running the fans pretty much all the time will drop it some. If not, well, Another toy.

In previous grows when the water dropped the ppms went up. Now they are staying the same 
and I added nutes again when I topped off the res. I want to keep them around 600ppm. 5.5 ph

Here are some closer shots, you can see they are flowering.














Forgot the kids, gotta have backup ya know. 

























Here is a better idea of average size.







The ten in the first two rows are part of a hydro nutrient challenge. They are Earls Stinky Widow. 
The last row are clones from current grow.

You can follow that grow from seed to finish here if you want.
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/145919-hydro-nutrient-challenge-cruzer.html​


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## lilmafia513 (Jan 22, 2009)

looking good cruzer.
Followed the clone method you gave here, and got roots in 8 days! One only, but we'll see what happens with the rest now!
Keep up the good grow!


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## cruzer101 (Jan 22, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> looking good cruzer.
> Followed the clone method you gave here, and got roots in 8 days! One only, but we'll see what happens with the rest now!
> Keep up the good grow!


Good news man.

I tell ya what. If you got one you will get more.
What works for me is after a week I gently, GENTLY tug on the clone. If there is any resistance at all then I know they rooted. 
When using rockwool instead of rapid rooters to start them just after a few days I move the little stalks left and right with my finger and can tell. Rooters grip a little more.

Obviously if there is no resistance you will lift the clone out of the hole.
No big deal, I have actually removed a clone, scraped it and dipped into the cloning gell again and it rooted.

Thanks for dropping by.
Keep us updated OK?​


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## lilmafia513 (Jan 23, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Good news man.
> 
> I tell ya what. If you got one you will get more.
> What works for me is after a week I gently, GENTLY tug on the clone. If there is any resistance at all then I know they rooted.
> ...


 Wow, thats good to know! Just in case some don't take as fast. One took off and now it's going full speed with growing. Took 10 PPP's the same way a day or so ago, i'll keep in touch.
Thanks...lilmaf


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## cruzer101 (Jan 24, 2009)

Check it out, two days later.

We get a lot of root porn. Here's some young female porn

Apollo






Apollo







This is the Widow.







Cute, Isn't she?​


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## JeSt3r (Jan 25, 2009)

subscribed...awesome cabinet man...kinda jealous right now lol.....cant wait to see ur results for this pass


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## pythiq (Jan 25, 2009)

Inspiring cab! Excellent journal, too, read all 13 pages. Waiting to see the bounty from this time around


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## cruzer101 (Jan 26, 2009)

Hey guys.

Thanks, As you can see this is my third try. I think this batch is gonna be the biggest yet. I think I have fit as much foliage as I possibly can in this thing. Thank god for twist ties.

With the addition of the heat mat under them to stable the root temp and the larger boxes with more room for them to grow, they have done real well. 

Not to mention the three point watering system where I hit three sides of the cube and leave the last side dry. I know that's better then the one drip. The stalks are about twice as thick as last grow.

I think whats going to make a real big difference is I haven't seen any spider mites. Those little suckers suck the life out of the plant and you don't even know it till it is real bad. Although I bleached out the cab between flowering I think the real reason is the weather. Its to cold for them right now.

Well, we will see. 
My guess at this point would be 4oz dried and cured.

Oh and by the way, 
Welcome to rollitup!

This is a great site.​


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## loh-pan (Jan 26, 2009)

Your cabinet is inspiring. 
I have a question about the pressure in the watering system. Is there aquarium sealant or some kind of cocking to glue the pipes together? The pump just pushes solution through the emitters without pressure problems or a return line to the reservoir?

kiss-ass


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## 420 4 fun (Jan 27, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> Thanks, As you can see this is my third try. I think this batch is gonna be the biggest yet. I think I have fit as much foliage as I possibly can in this thing. Thank god for twist ties.
> 
> ...


hi, i havent visited riu for a while, im catching up.....

looks great cruzer, WOW

got fingers x for ya

for those pesty mites, flip up some big fan leaves every day, look under them for little white eggs, you can see them with the naked eye. This will give you an idea if you are starting to be infested or worse.

your babies look great, nice and healthy and stout.

id recommend fully dipping them into a miticide solution while they are still in the rw cubes and easy to immerse upside down, i always did this once during the veg and then again before i put into the flower system or bigger pots, depending on what type of system they were in.

then its only neem oil mistings from thereon.

question,
do you think there may be too much foliage?

I see the screen but it looks like they grew right through it.

Are they all fighting for light?

sometimes when there is too much foliage, the buds wont get as huge and solid as they would normally if there were less tops, it sorta creates a canopy that the light cant get through and you end up with alotta peach fuzz buds which add HOURS of trimming time at the end, and less yield in total.

Just an observation from what I can see in the pics.

I have done 4x8 tables with 1800 hps and i waited too long, they grew too big, and yield was less than the previous one.

nice show, i cant wait to see more pics!!


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## cruzer101 (Jan 27, 2009)

loh-pan said:


> Your cabinet is inspiring.
> I have a question about the pressure in the watering system. Is there aquarium sealant or some kind of cocking to glue the pipes together? The pump just pushes solution through the emitters without pressure problems or a return line to the reservoir?
> 
> kiss-ass


Hi Loh, Hum that sounded funny to me, you probably heard it a million times.

I wondered how much presure I would need to go up a good three feet and still have enough to get water to all the nossels so I took a tub of water and put a 150gph in it and raised the hose four feet and that was about it no more water. I think thats what they call the head height. So I tried it with a 350 and I shot water in the air another foot. (if that didn't work I had a 600gph)

So I took that pump attached the runner 1/2 hose ran it up to the barbed fitting and just slid it over it. The pvc is held together with pvc cement. The fittings I got at local garden supply. standard drip system stuff. I drilled a hole and screwed the fitting in the pvc. it leaks a little but it is in the box. The center is set to drip and the ones on the side stream water to the center of the box. Three point watering system.

The plants are sitting in 30" flower box's there is two of them that I drilled holes in the bottom of for drainage, one behind the other. They are sitting on a metal rack I found in the rubber maid shelf section and cut for this tray. 

The tray I made out of a underbed storage container that I cut the bottom out of and drilled a hole and installed a 1 1/2" round bathroom sink drain. 

So I run the water from the res through the pump up through 1/2" rubber line inside the 1 1/2 drain pipe up to the pvc. then through the drip fittings. I can adjust the amount of water on each one from a drip to shooting across the box. 

The water drains through the flower box onto the tray and down to the res. The drain is not long enough so I got a couple extensions. That why you dont see a feed line. Its inside the drain. The last extention is not attached and I slide it over the pipe thred the 1/2 line through let it drop and set it on top of the pump. No sound. Works great. Cant hear a thing when it runs.

But the amount of presure realy is not that much. 

I am always comming up with new ideas, Thing is I am working with a small res. 5 gallon max. I need two and not much space in the bottom of the cabinet. Once I get a new/smaler ballast I will be able to go larger.​


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## cruzer101 (Jan 28, 2009)

420 4 fun said:


> question,
> do you think there may be too much foliage?
> 
> I see the screen but it looks like they grew right through it.
> ...


Hey 420

Yea, I was thinking the same thing. I added an extra fan that pointed up though the canopy to help keep things dry. Seems to be working. I have seen dehumidifiers on eBay but from what I understand they don't work under 80 degrees and it is winter here. My highs are in the 70s 

Big suckers this time eh? I decided to let them get larger and use some of that space in the back and I may have went to far but I don't think so. I bend the tall ones over to a place that's vacant and cut off selective leaf that's blocking light. I am seeing buds growing up the stalk instead of by themselves so I agree there is not as much light as before but more mass. 

Thing is I recall the height not changing much after stretching. The buds grow four or five inches and that's it. 
Well, if thats the case Im ok.

I did make a dip solution for these girls and dunk them before they went up. They are doing better then ever. Thanks for the info. It is also winter and I don't think The little suckers will invade me but it is good to be prepared.
​


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## cruzer101 (Jan 29, 2009)

Well It looks like we are half way home with this batch. Oh something I think I figured out but not sure. 
Fox Farm has a hydro Grow Big in blue container and regular Grow Big in green right? Well the NPK is different for hydro.

Well obviously I am doing hydro here but I got the green stuff. So I compared them and saw what I was missing. 
I took the same amount of left over GH grow and mixed them together with green Grow Big and got the hydro version of Fox Farm Grow Big. Sure it is shy in potassium but it is close.








Anyway, keeping PPMs at about 700 now. Plants look great except the ones that get too close to the light.






















Sure got that bush action going on this time. I been cutting some leaf out 


.​


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## notyourkind (Jan 29, 2009)

Cruzer, thank you for the efficiently informative post - it is exactly what I was looking for on SCROG. All our journals should be this nice and neat. 
Very Informative - thanks again.

Best,
NYK


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## lilmafia513 (Jan 29, 2009)

looks like you got more side foilage this time. How that working for ya'?
Notice a big difference?


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## Shrike (Jan 30, 2009)

Subscribing...great info here...thanks!


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## cruzer101 (Jan 31, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> looks like you got more side foilage this time. How that working for ya'?
> Notice a big difference?


 
Not quite sure yet. 
There is much more foliage and more buds but that also blocks the light and that means small buds on the outside.

I found out one thing. Plants do not like too many lumens. I added a second fan to the light so the glass was cool to the touch and it wouldnt burn the leaf but still the leaf dies when it is too close. interesting.

Now that they have grown I keep tieing them back and arranging them like a bouquet of flowers. Normally at this time I would be done with that.

I think I let them go just a little to long this time. I vegged for an extra week after I put them up there. Next grow I will weave them all into the screen for at least five inches then attach them with the wire.

No way could I have done this in the summer. The cooler temps have helped out a lot.

We will see but my guess is this harvest will be the biggest yet. ​


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## cruzer101 (Jan 31, 2009)

Shrike said:


> Subscribing...great info here...thanks!


Welcome Shrike


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## cruzer101 (Jan 31, 2009)

notyourkind said:


> Cruzer, thank you for the efficiently informative post - it is exactly what I was looking for on SCROG. All our journals should be this nice and neat.
> Very Informative - thanks again.
> 
> Best,
> NYK


Welcome NYK and thanks man, I have fun and it gives me something to do. Its realy not that hard to take a few minutes longer and spell check and clean up the type. Makes it much eaiser to read.​


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## lilmafia513 (Feb 1, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Not quite sure yet.
> There is much more foliage and more buds but that also blocks the light and that means small buds on the outside.
> 
> I found out one thing. Plants do not like too many lumens. I added a second fan to the light so the glass was cool to the touch and it wouldnt burn the leaf but still the leaf dies when it is too close. interesting.
> ...


Good deal, i know winter has helped me keep my temps in line, except for the clone dome. Which by the way i lost an entire tray of clones. 10 PPP, and 10 White Widow. Followed your steps again, but did evrything under water this time, and got some heat mats. I think they'll make it this time.
Can't wait to see the harvest on your girls!!!!


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## cruzer101 (Feb 1, 2009)

Oh no! 
You lost them all? Sorry to hear that.

The heater will help them root. Especially this time of year. I know my temps drop in the 60s now. They wont root when it is that cold. I read 75 is where you want to be and don't go over 85. That works great for me.

Be careful with those heat maps without thermostats they get pretty hot. I have to prop my tray above them about an inch to get the right temp. Putting a towel on top of the mat helps control the temp too.

I been at your grow journal but I didnt see any pics of your clones. If you would like to start a journal on the new cuttings and post pics I will be happy to give you my opinion on them. Maybe I can spot something.​


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## lilmafia513 (Feb 1, 2009)

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/124405-my-cabinet-grow-journal-69.html

There ya go, that will take ya' right to it. This is how i have it set up now, with 4 WW and 4 PPP. Mat under a wire shelf to elevate tray above for air flow between. Temps stay between 75 and 80, and 90-100% humidity.


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## Where in the hell am I? (Feb 1, 2009)

Beautiful journal, bro!!! I plan on putin a lot of time into journal prep fer mine


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## cruzer101 (Feb 1, 2009)

Where in the hell am I? said:


> Beautiful journal, bro!!! I plan on putin a lot of time into journal prep fer mine


Right on Man. 

Be sure to stop back by and post a link to it.​


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## Where in the hell am I? (Feb 1, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Right on Man.
> 
> Be sure to stop back by and post a link to it.​


Better believe it!


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## cruzer101 (Feb 3, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/124405-my-cabinet-grow-journal-69.html
> 
> There ya go, that will take ya' right to it. This is how i have it set up now, with 4 WW and 4 PPP. Mat under a wire shelf to elevate tray above for air flow between. Temps stay between 75 and 80, and 90-100% humidity.


Looks good man.

Keep those rooters warmer then ambient temps, spray the dome not the cuttings for humidity and when the rooters get a little light brown in color then water them with your solution. If you are using clonex it is safe to mix a gallon and drop a drop of super thrive in it. Lets get some roots this time man.

I'm Rootin for ya!​


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## cruzer101 (Feb 3, 2009)

Well, while I am here I got a couple pics I took today with flash right before the light came on. 
You can get a better idea of what we got this time around.

This is half way through week five of flower.


_*Left Side*_







_*Right Side*_














The light just started. Time to cut a few leaf. 
We are not getting a lot of rain so the humidity hasnt become a problem.....yet.

The kids are working on there 7th node. I want to top them but I want to try to micro sex them as soon as possible and I am afraid topping them now will slow growth down a couple weeks.

I got a 30X jewelers glass and can see pretty good but I cant seem to get good enough pictures through it.














Is it a girl or a boy?


​


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## Where in the hell am I? (Feb 3, 2009)

Wouldnt you have known the sex by now? I am just past 1/2 way through week 4 (pics to come today), and hoping that in the next week more of mine fill out like yers have!!


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## lilmafia513 (Feb 3, 2009)

Where in the hell am I? said:


> Wouldnt you have known the sex by now? I am just past 1/2 way through week 4 (pics to come today), and hoping that in the next week more of mine fill out like yers have!!


 LOL, he's talking about the babys!!


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## lilmafia513 (Feb 3, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Looks good man.
> 
> Keep those rooters warmer then ambient temps, spray the dome not the cuttings for humidity and when the rooters get a little light brown in color then water them with your solution. If you are using clonex it is safe to mix a gallon and drop a drop of super thrive in it. Lets get some roots this time man.
> 
> I'm Rootin for ya!​


Ok, that was my problem. I was spraying the clones, and the dome. I see now, the excess moisture is what made the last batch rotten.
I don't use a solution for watering clones, always thought you were not suposed to use nutes with clones.
I use just the powder cloning stuff, and water with clean water. What should i use with it? I was thinking of getting some superthrive, but too scared to use it.


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## cruzer101 (Feb 3, 2009)

> I don't use a solution for watering clones, always thought you were not suposed to use nutes with clones.


You know, I got confused too. It is seedlings that need water only. Seedlings have enough nutrients to grow for a couple weeks with just water.

Cuttings need juice to get roots in a week or so. Don't get me wrong, you can clone without them. I have dropped a cutting in a glass of water and it rooted. It took about a month but it rooted. No powder, no gel, nothing but tap water and set it on the windowsill. I propped the leaf up out of the water and just the stem in the water.

I have used the powder in the past with about 50% survival rate. I have used Olivias cloning gel and solution with about the same results. Once I got Clonex, forget about it. 100%

It was about $40 for both of them but I need something that will work every time or it will throw off the perpetual grow. I dont have an extra couple weeks and when I read it would root a popcical stick I went for it. I have used it on six different occasions and everything grew roots.

With this batch you already used the powder and do not have solution you want to keep them a little more wet than usual.

What I would recommend is to mix up about 700ppms of nutes.

I would mix one gallon. take my veg nutes and flower nutes and mix them 50/50 then add one drop of super thrive. no need to pH but use distilled or R/O

Pour some in a cup and dip the bottom of the clones that are in the net pots in it. watch the cube absorb the solution and try and get it wet up to where the bottom of the cutting is. you don't want the top of the cube wet, you want moist yes but not wet. By dipping them instead of feeding from the top you are forcing the roots to grow down, they follow the water. 
You should have roots in 2 weeks. 

Get the idea?​


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## lilmafia513 (Feb 3, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> You know, I got confused too. It is seedlings that need water only. Seedlings have enough nutrients to grow for a couple weeks with just water.
> 
> Cuttings need juice to get roots in a week or so. Don't get me wrong, you can clone without them. I have dropped a cutting in a glass of water and it rooted. It took about a month but it rooted. No powder, no gel, nothing but tap water and set it on the windowsill. I propped the leaf up out of the water and just the stem in the water.
> 
> ...


Got it, i did this once before dipping the net cups, and it worked pretty good. Makes sense.
Thanks Cruzer


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## cruzer101 (Feb 4, 2009)

OK,

Well, if you are using tap water then I would suggest you use 2 tea spoons of grow big (10ml) and three teaspoons of big bloom.(15ml) per gallon. If you have distilled you can double that. One drop of super thrive if you got it.

PPMs mean parts per million. it is a measurement of salts or nutrients in the water.
The mix above will get you to about 400ppm and tap water will probably have about 300 to start with. Thing is, you dont know what is in the water when you use tap. Distilled has zero. R/o starts at about 10 The lower the better cause you know what your plant is getting.

My Tap water is 330 ppms and ph of 7.0

You can pick up a cheap ppm meter on eBay for around $20
pH test meters are available too but the test kit you can get from a pool supply place (the liquid one, not strips) works fine and is cheap.

The more you know, the better they grow. ​


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## lilmafia513 (Feb 5, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> OK,
> 
> Well, if you are using tap water then I would suggest you use 2 tea spoons of grow big (10ml) and three teaspoons of big bloom.(15ml) per gallon. If you have distilled you can double that. One drop of super thrive if you got it.
> 
> ...


 cool wrote that down to remember,
I have a PH tester, the liquid drop bottle and vial.
My tap is at about 7.0 too, but never knew anything about the PPM's.
I'll check into the meter. Thanks!


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## cruzer101 (Feb 7, 2009)

No Problem,

Hey I have this chart that shows what plants can use at different pH levels.







With hydro you wanna stay between 5.5 and 6.0​


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## cruzer101 (Feb 9, 2009)

Just ended week five of flower, I had to cut some out yesterday.
Yea, I know. I had to much in there. I had to see for myself.

I cut the tops of a couple of the widow stems that were to close to the light and started looking weird. 
Now I know. Minimum of eight inches for 400w Air cooled or not.







I know that looks closer then eight inches but I am going from the actual bulb itself and the back fills in.
So maybe I am pushing the limit again. We will see.
I think I pretty much nuked the widows.

720ppm getting more bloom nutes in the FF mix now so I want the pH at 6.0 so my girls can use them better. 
res temp still at 75f and root zone about the same.




















Here is a close up of an average bud. 
Most of the hairs are starting to turn but this still has some.







You know what I noticed? 
These are growing more trichromes in the shade then in the light. I mean they have them on the 
top buds but I have more production on the leaves this time. Check this out, used the flash.








And a shot with the kids.







​


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## lilmafia513 (Feb 9, 2009)

looks good. Mixed up that clone drink the other day, gave it a try and the whole tray rooted overnight!!! I was amazed. I have a similar PH Chart to the one you posted, but it's crazy colors and can't hardly see it.


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## cruzer101 (Feb 11, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> looks good. Mixed up that clone drink the other day, gave it a try and the whole tray rooted overnight!!! I was amazed. I have a similar PH Chart to the one you posted, but it's crazy colors and can't hardly see it.


Great news man,

I'll bet they were already rooting but that is a nice thing to say.
Now you got it down you will have as many as you want.

PS I had that crazy colored one too. ​


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## lilmafia513 (Feb 12, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Great news man,
> 
> I'll bet they were already rooting but that is a nice thing to say.
> Now you got it down you will have as many as you want.
> ...


 yup, some did already, but it's neat to do something and see results the next day..LOL!!! 
All 10 clones in the dome are now rooted and about to bust at the seams, so i guess it time to get them out of there, maybe this weekend.


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## cruzer101 (Feb 22, 2009)

Just ended week six of flower, same deal 720ppm pH 6.0















Look like I got my vertical wall working now. 


Couple bud shots before the light went on.













The widows look like they want to take longer to finish. I'm not going to wait. I found out what I wanted to know this round. The next batch will be all widows and I am supper cropping them.​


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## lilmafia513 (Feb 22, 2009)

nice looking widows cruzer!
Got all the clones done with the help of a heat mat, and moved my 4 WW clones into gro-bags a few days ago. slowly moving the light down to the right height now.


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## loh-pan (Feb 22, 2009)

That stadium puts the Colosseum to shame.


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## cruzer101 (Feb 23, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> nice looking widows cruzer!
> Got all the clones done with the help of a heat mat, and moved my 4 WW clones into gro-bags a few days ago. slowly moving the light down to the right height now.


Thanks man, Thing is, the nice ones are the apollo. maybe 2 or 3 widow that are finishing on my time table. 

Good to hear you got the cloning thing down. I found out that temp has a lot to do with a plants growth.​


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## cruzer101 (Feb 23, 2009)

loh-pan said:


> That stadium puts the Colosseum to shame.


I think you may be right loh, 
Although some buds are shadowed and could have done better with direct lighting I think I am going to pull it off.
​


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## cruzer101 (Feb 23, 2009)

Now I know how far my light can penetrate horizonal. This next batch I want about 2 inches thinner on the right and fill the center and back better. No more extra week with veg nutes. get them to pop a little sooner and keep training them till I see flowers. Maybe this time I will be able to fill the rack.

Going to try something new, I just started supper cropping the keepers. I found if you pinch the stalk when you bend the stem you dont break the outer skin of the trunk. you kind of fold it. After a couple days it starts for the light again but all the small shoots get much more light.

Couple shots 















Most are Widow clones from the current grow. The three others are from seed. Stinky Widow. I am not sure how many I will actually flower. I should take the best four given the size of the last ones but by supper cropping I think these will be smaller. Besides that Im greedy. 

Nah, at least six.​


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## pythiq (Feb 23, 2009)

Ahh the sight of pinching like that is so unnerving. Just have to remember these little ladies will take quite the beating and still put out


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## cruzer101 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dam,

The spider mites are back. 

I was trimming some leaf and I saw the speckled look to a few and found them. Mostly on the right side of the cab but they multiply fast while they suck the potency of the buds. So close, I think I am going to just start flushing.a week early and call it a grow.

One good thing, They are different type. These are brown not red type. That means I have killed them before. Or maybe they are just brown this time of year...hum. I have to screen the intake better.​


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## lilmafia513 (Feb 26, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Dam,
> 
> The spider mites are back.
> 
> ...


 Any way you could post a shot of that leaf? Saw some spots on one of mine, and need to know. The pics i found i could barely see what to look for.


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## cruzer101 (Mar 5, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> Any way you could post a shot of that leaf? Saw some spots on one of mine, and need to know. The pics i found i could barely see what to look for.


Its not easy to spot the dam things. They are pretty small. they live at first under the leaf and suck the juice out and lay eggs. When you look at leaf look for dust.That's what it looks like.

Then look under that leaf. if you see tiny black or brown dots that's them. You can kill them but there eggs hatch in two or three weeks. That's why its such a bitch. you got eight weeks to flower and you get them around the fourth week, kill them but they come back. You don't want to spray when your a couple weeks from harvest so you got to make a choice.

Either you get the buds or they do and you wind up with about 3/4 of your harvest. I said the hell with it. I cut off all the leaf I could find with them on it and threw it away. Then shot them once with safer's spray and the next day water to wash it off. let them go ten days flush and cut.

Actually I just got done. I didn't have enough room for all the buds in my drying boxes this time so I left the widows for now.​


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## cruzer101 (Mar 5, 2009)

OK things were getting tight so its time to cut. I flushed for the last week. changing water every 
two days. by the end of the week I had about 90ppms in the res.



















Yea, I got bigger buds this time. Also more of them. This works pretty good. 

Heres a shot of the root mass.







My three point watering system works great. Just as I thought the roots would follow the water 
and not tangle with each other. I actually removed them one at a time so I could find out if I could 
replace plants in a scrog.
Its a pain in the ass but you can do it.













I had too much this time so I cut the apollo and I ended up leaving the Widows for now. 
here is a shot.







I would like to let them go for another week. I think I might try something I haven't seen done before. 
Plant the new batch while this is still flowering. I could take the tallest plants I have and start them on 
the outside and run them across the screen to the other side. That will free up some room down there. 
Once I cut the widows I will fill the other four. Im doing eight this time and by pinching the stalks I can keep the size down.

Sounds like a lot of work, Maybe I will just get another box.​


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## cruzer101 (Mar 6, 2009)

I couldn't control the nutrients by transplanting with the remaining flowering plants The center would need to flush again in another week or so so I found another box and cut them. Well, laundry basket, couldn't find a box tall enough.

Now my flower area is empty. I need to remove the boxes and clean the hydroton, then flush the clean hydroton with nutrients and transplant. Lets see, we got six widows and three stinky widows. I still dont know for sure if the stinkys are female. They sure are robust though. I guess I can put them in the front row just in case.

Anyway this harvest looks like it will be tha largest so far. With what I have learned this last time around I think I will be able to meet it or beat the quanity with better quality bud.​


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## 420 4 fun (Mar 7, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> I couldn't control the nutrients by transplanting with the remaining flowering plants The center would need to flush again in another week or so so I found another box and cut them. Well, laundry basket, couldn't find a box tall enough.
> 
> Now my flower area is empty. I need to remove the boxes and clean the hydroton, then flush the clean hydroton with nutrients and transplant. Lets see, we got six widows and three stinky widows. I still dont know for sure if the stinkys are female. They sure are robust though. I guess I can put them in the front row just in case.
> 
> Anyway this harvest looks like it will be tha largest so far. With what I have learned this last time around I think I will be able to meet it or beat the quanity with better quality bud.​


 Looks good man!!!

How do you feel in regards to your yield?
Would you do anything different on the next one?
Flip earlier? chop off pieces? train differently?
1 strain only?

TY
G/L with yield, I have my fingers X'ed for ya


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## cruzer101 (Mar 7, 2009)

420 4 fun said:


> Looks good man!!!
> 
> How do you feel in regards to your yield?
> Would you do anything different on the next one?
> ...


Hey 420,

_How do you feel in regards to your yield?_
It looks like its the largest yet. the stalks and roots were the largest I have seen. The widows were light poisoned during the grow and when I got hit with spider mites they were the least resistant and suffered. 

_Would you do anything different on the next one?_
Yes, Starting with more plants to get more top colas. Taking measures to keep them small. Now I will keep the plants trained closer to the screen through the first month of flower and remove more leaf during the grow to shock them and keep them manageable.

_Flip earlier? chop off pieces? train differently?_
I am pinching the stalk and bending it. Basically folding it over. 

_1 strain only?_
There is six white widow clones I took from mothers I grew from fem seeds and two stinky Widows I grew from seed but haven't sexed yet. So, two strains of White Widow.​


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## Thcofgreen (Mar 12, 2009)

nice grow man


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## 420 4 fun (Mar 12, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Hey 420,
> 
> _How do you feel in regards to your yield?_
> It looks like its the largest yet. the stalks and roots were the largest I have seen. The widows were light poisoned during the grow and when I got hit with spider mites they were the least resistant and suffered.
> ...


 How do you find the training results? ive never done a scrog, but from what i understand, even if you chopped off the main, and if you trained it properly, you could possibly get 6+ main colas, they might be smaller than a pricipal cola, but overall the yield of them combined would be more beneficial towards yield.

From what i see in the pictures, it looks great, and looks like you trained them all perfectly to utilize the light 100%, just looks a little overcrowded.

ttys


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## cruzer101 (Mar 14, 2009)

Thcofgreen said:


> nice grow man


Thanks man.​


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## cruzer101 (Mar 14, 2009)

I just manicured the buds, Cut them off of the stems and put them into a paper bag to dry better. I noticed some mold on the larger ones and thought it best to get that taken care of quickly. I got about 4 grams of moldy stuff this time.

I'm not sure but I think it was because of two things, First its winter here and there is more humidity in the air where they hang. Second thing is this time the buds and stems were larger and less air passed around the buds. I figure what the hell, I have probably smoked worse weed in the past.

Here is a shot of one of the smaller buds.









Once I get it dry I will have weight for this grow. I blew it though and I'm not sure but I think I mixed up some of the buds. I think it was like 70/30 Apollo. I know I had 4 and 3 but Im talking weight. Widows got light poison and were hit by the bugs.

First time around I labeled the jars Apollo, that weed is OK, Second are labeled Apollo 2 That Shit Rocks! 
So I will call this last batch of Apollo Apollo 3 and we got White Widow 1

OK on with the show.
*
Grow #4: WW2*

First, a better shot at the watering system. I run it for ten minutes, twice a day.








There root system looks about like last time. That little bit of hydroton works great.









OK time for the girls to get there chance. I bent them a couple weeks ago and tied them down with wire. I kept them at 500ppm most of the six weeks of vegging, now its time to flower. Starting with about 600ppm fox farm.







Eight White widow females all bent at 8 inches tall and all main stock is under the screen. The four plants on the right are all pointing to the left and on the left they are pointing to the right. Its a hedge right now but I hope they will grow out.







I will give them a few days to settle in and then remove all the lower leaf. This time I tied the screen down in nine places instead of one. I used thicker wire too. This ought to hold them.
​


----------



## lilmafia513 (Mar 14, 2009)

whoa, back in action already cruzer. You dont mess around huh? Great looking buds man!


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## cruzer101 (Mar 15, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> whoa, back in action already cruzer. You dont mess around huh? Great looking buds man!


Hey, whats up man.

Thanks, a friend took the bud pic for me, my camera sucks compared to his. 
Yea, keep them rolling. I got some more starters down there. I started five feminized Super Silver Haze and a couple widow clones. I think I am going to do this from seed to get more variety of smoke now I think I got it down. I have five feminized trainwreck seeds and some Mazar seeds left from last order. 

​


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## lilmafia513 (Mar 15, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Hey, whats up man.
> 
> Thanks, a friend took the bud pic for me, my camera sucks compared to his.
> Yea, keep them rolling. I got some more starters down there. I started five feminized Super Silver Haze and a couple widow clones. I think I am going to do this from seed to get more variety of smoke now I think I got it down. I have five feminized trainwreck seeds and some Mazar seeds left from last order.
> ...


 Trainwreck is some good herb man! My buddy has some going now and i only smoked it like twice before, but WOW what a rush!!!LOL!!
I think i found that WW is a BIOTCH to clone. Every round has massive problems. PPP seems to take right off and shows no transplant shock. Wanna get my violator kush and northern lights going to give them a shot!
Never heard of Mazar. Whats it like?


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## cruzer101 (Mar 16, 2009)

Don't know man, I killed the last ones I tried growing. That was my first grow. But I read Mazar is a pure Indica.





*Mazar won 2nd place in the 1999 High Times Cup and High Life Cup 2002. Mazar is one of our favourites. With very high levels of THC (on par with White Widow), it produces a very nice up high stoned. The plant is highly consistent and has a great taste. Its unobtrusive scent makes it easy to conceal and easy on the lungs. Mazar can also be grown outdoors in warmer climates.*
* INDOOR / OUTDOOR* *Indoor* * TYPE* * Mix* * PLANT HEIGHT* *Short, Christmas tree like* * FLOWERING TIME* *7/8 Weeks*


I am thinking it would be better choice in the summer then the others because it can stand the heat but they are not fem seeds. I would have to sex them then cut clones to grow.
They were freebies on my last order. The seed bank gives away freebies so you can give them to a friend to get started. I got nobody to give them to so I will grow them.

​


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## cruzer101 (Mar 16, 2009)

Hey People I got weight,

Yup the most yet. I got a little over 5 oz's !!!

After a couple of days in the bag, they felt pretty dry so I took them out and weighed them. 
149 grams of dried and manicured buds. Here's a shot,











Now its time to cure them. 

I figure I got most all the moisture out. The little bit that did grow mold I kept separate. 
It is only a couple grams so I kept it in the light. Looks like the mold died

I will give them a week or so and check on them. If there not still crisp I will bag them again. 
If they are crisp they will go into smaller long term storage jars and finish curing.

*
OK, On with the grow.* 

Day 7 flower

This week I upped the PPM to 700, pH at 5.7 Fox Farm Nutrients. 
I got that seedling mat under them again. root temps been at 65d and canopy 80d

























I got a good start on training them this time. They went right into 12/12 instead of giving 
them an extra week at 18/6 like last grow. So, the two different thing I did this time 
was 12/12 right away and bent the stocks. Otherwise everything will be identical from 
last grow. We will see just how much bending a plant will effect the production of buds.



Here is a shot of some starters. Feminized Super Silver Haze.








I got about a dozen Widow clones sleeping right now too. I cut them a few days ago but didn't 
have time to plant them so I kept them in water for a few days. I will have a shot next week.





​


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## Packet. (Mar 16, 2009)

im watchin this til the end dude


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## Shrike (Mar 17, 2009)

Great info and pic's...thank you for this thread


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## cruzer101 (Mar 18, 2009)

Packet. said:


> im watchin this til the end dude


Welcome dude, Pull up a chair cause its gonna be a while.​


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## cruzer101 (Mar 18, 2009)

Shrike said:


> Great info and pic's...thank you for this thread


No problem Shrike, I enjoy growing and its fun to share with other growers. Well the buds are a good reason too! 
I post here to get feedback on my ideas, so feel free.




.
​


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## cruzer101 (Mar 18, 2009)

I am trying to figured this out. My cabinet is 36" wide and 18" deep. One square meter would be 3.2 by 3.2 so I figure I have 1/2 square meter. My last harvest was 149 grams dry. I have found I lose ablot 70 to 75% of total bud weight from beginning to hang to manacure buds. that means I cut about 600 grams wet.

So now, look at the seed bank sites and they say how much different plants produce. The better strains are like 600gms per square meter. So, in effect, I am getting 1200gms per square meter. Is that right or am I just stoned again?




.​


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## PeeDee420 (Mar 18, 2009)

Amazing grow man! It's very clear that you know what your doin!


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## lilmafia513 (Mar 19, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> I am trying to figured this out. My cabinet is 36" wide and 18" deep. One square meter would be 3.2 by 3.2 so I figure I have 1/2 square meter. My last harvest was 149 grams dry. I have found I lose ablot 70 to 75% of total bud weight from beginning to hang to manacure buds. that means I cut about 600 grams wet.
> 
> So now, look at the seed bank sites and they say how much different plants produce. The better strains are like 600gms per square meter. So, in effect, I am getting 1200gms per square meter. Is that right or am I just stoned again?
> 
> ...


 I dont even know man....too many numbers for me!!LOL!!
Wasn't the last batch White Widow?
My WW is doing great and should be done in about a week.


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## cruzer101 (Mar 20, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> I dont even know man....too many numbers for me!!LOL!!
> Wasn't the last batch White Widow?
> My WW is doing great and should be done in about a week.


Hey Fire,

Yea, it don't make sense but that's what I came up with.
Good to hear you WW batch is doing well, My last batch was a combo of widow and Apollo. This one is all Widow. ​


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## cruzer101 (Mar 20, 2009)

week 2 flower

Temps been stable. Its warming up outside but Im keeping the heat map under the roots. 
Nutes at 700PPM pH 6.0







I pointed them towards the center knowing they would pass it and go up the opposite side. 
Its working but I dont think I am going to get the length I wanted because I bent the stalks. 
I want them to grow up the sides but not as tall as last grow.​


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## growinman (Mar 21, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> I am trying to figured this out. My cabinet is 36" wide and 18" deep. One square meter would be 3.2 by 3.2 so I figure I have 1/2 square meter. My last harvest was 149 grams dry. I have found I lose ablot 70 to 75% of total bud weight from beginning to hang to manacure buds. that means I cut about 600 grams wet.
> 
> So now, look at the seed bank sites and they say how much different plants produce. The better strains are like 600gms per square meter. So, in effect, I am getting 1200gms per square meter. Is that right or am I just stoned again?
> ​


Geezzzzzz, *cruser*, I didn't realize they weigh it wet.....it always sounded so good.........show's how much I know, eh.......

So tell me, are your Mazar seeds those Mazar x Afghan from marijuana-seed.nl, or whatever its called?? I am finishing some now and boy is this some leafy sh*t with monster buds(under there) and does not want to finish yet at 64 days, though they're loading up with trichomes finally. I have one in a 5 gal dwc that's been 100 days+- and isn't yet finished....I had to trim most of the leaf off so the buds could see some light<---is the only shock/stress they've had, but now they look to be finishing.....

Anyway, GREAT job on this journel Have a great week!!

growinman


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## bighitter (Mar 22, 2009)

Ok I'm hooked.. subscribed.


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## lilmafia513 (Mar 22, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Hey Fire,
> 
> Yea, it don't make sense but that's what I came up with.
> Good to hear you WW batch is doing well, My last batch was a combo of widow and Apollo. This one is all Widow. ​


 well not much of a batch, just one WW at the moment. Got about 4 clones in flower of her too, and some new ones in the clone dome. The first run will be coming down next weekend. 
Ever thought of crossing your WW and apollo? it would be interesting to see..


----------



## cruzer101 (Mar 22, 2009)

growinman said:


> Geezzzzzz, *cruser*, I didn't realize they weigh it wet.....it always sounded so good.........show's how much I know, eh.......
> 
> So tell me, are your Mazar seeds those Mazar x Afghan from marijuana-seed.nl, or whatever its called?? I am finishing some now and boy is this some leafy sh*t with monster buds(under there) and does not want to finish yet at 64 days, though they're loading up with trichomes finally. I have one in a 5 gal dwc that's been 100 days+- and isn't yet finished....I had to trim most of the leaf off so the buds could see some light<---is the only shock/stress they've had, but now they look to be finishing.....
> 
> ...


Hey Growinman, Thanks for stoppin by.
Yea, Im pretty sure thats wet weight they are talkin about. 

I got my seeds this last time around on line at seed boutique. They deal with several seed banks around the world. When they give you freebies there's no indication of where they came from. Maybe I can find out.

Anyway good to hear your grow went well. I thought these finished in 8 weeks. Im going to have to look into it before I start them. ​.


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## cruzer101 (Mar 22, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> Ever thought of crossing your WW and apollo? it would be interesting to see..


Na, Have you ever looked at how many choices there are already? Man I get lost as it is. I will leave the crossing to everyone else. 
I just want the buds! 


.​


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## lilmafia513 (Mar 22, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Na, Have you ever looked at how many choices there are already? Man I get lost as it is. I will leave the crossing to everyone else.
> I just want the buds!
> 
> 
> .​


 LOL....i know what ya mean, i wanna do a cross though. Wanna cross a widow with something!


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## cruzer101 (Mar 25, 2009)

I did a 24hr flush after week 2 again. We got buds... Man that was fast. I doubt these will beat any quantity record but I will bet this will be the most potent buds so far. OK so, note to self: Veg for five days under HPS before flowering and flush after the first two weeks.
That should do the trick.







I think at 17 days into flower most of the stretching has already occurred.







After looking closely I noticed the plants planted between the watering points in the back didn't do well. I yanked one and moved the water to the other. I am going to increase the length of time I am watering too. I have been at 10 min twice a day. I am going 20 to see what happens.

Checked the curing buds today. Widow was ok but the Apollo needs some air. Funny I thought it would have been the other way around but I did only fill the jars half way with widow.
​


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## SMOKINLADY (Mar 28, 2009)

cool that u not only go step by step.. but adding pics is just wonderful!!


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## cruzer101 (Mar 30, 2009)

SMOKINLADY said:


> cool that u not only go step by step.. but adding pics is just wonderful!!


Welcome Smokin Lady, I think growing is pretty cool myself and this is how I learned. I followed other journals and It really helped when people made things clear. You know what they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Now I just got to get a decent camera for close ups.​


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## cruzer101 (Mar 30, 2009)

Starting week 4 flower. I just changed res. we got 820PPM at 5.7 pH
Next week I start cutting back on the nitrogen in the mix.




















You know when you grow horizonal like this the side pointing up does the best so I cut the wimpy 
shoots that dont make the turn right away. I used to let them grow but Now after doing this a few
times I think its best to make your bend, cut off the leaf thats pointing up and the stem that's pointing 
down to get that new growth to shoot straight up like that.








I cut out some fan leaves to get a little more light into the canpoy. I am still encouraging that lower growth.
I am running the little silver fan now, Man that thing rocks.

.


. ​


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## Packet. (Mar 30, 2009)

nice dude that's an awesome SCOG you got there


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## cruzer101 (Mar 30, 2009)

Packet. said:


> nice dude that's an awesome SCOG you got there


Thanks man.


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## ganjaboii024 (Apr 2, 2009)

i see that you set up your own drip watering system, how did you construct that?? i see the main feed line that would attach to the pump, and that splitting into the individual watering lines but i dont see and drippers, did you make holes in the tube or does the pump just turn on for a few mins to flood the cubes the shut off for a few hours?
thanks



cruzer101 said:


> Day 7
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## cruzer101 (Apr 2, 2009)

Hi Ganga,

That was my trestle design. I changed it since then to the current 3 point system.
What I had was the 1/2" water line came up from the pump to an elbow then across the bottom of the tray and plugged at the end. 
Basically making it a manifold.

Then I poked holes in it and attached a 1/4" line came up about five inches and attached an inline valve so I could adjust the pressure down to a drip. Then it came up another inch or two and into a tee. That split it between two plants and dripped on the cube.

The problem I found with the design was at the lower pressure if it was tilted just a tiny bit the water would go only to one side. It would work if you didn't attach an inline valve and attached drippers on the ends but I already bought the valves and wanted to use them. Its a good thing I did because with the system I have now the plants grow to be more then twice as big. I use three valves per plant now placing the water exactly where I want it.

edit- I just looked them up. They are called 1/4" mini valve. Here is a pic.


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## ganjaboii024 (Apr 2, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Hi Ganga,
> 
> That was my trestle design. I changed it since then to the current 3 point system.
> What I had was the 1/2" water line came up from the pump to an elbow then across the bottom of the tray and plugged at the end.
> ...


i was wondering how you controlled that, i was thinking of doing a similar setup but i was going to get the valves and put them before my drip rings and have the rings have big holes instead of fucking around with pinholes and such but realised that, yes, if the ring was tilted only one hole would drip...i was looking into buying drippers but my hydro store doesnt have em and online it seems that the companies want you to buy 100 or 1000+ pices per order and i needed 10 lol so i just went with DWC buckets


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## cruzer101 (Apr 2, 2009)

Yea, I found most of my drip supplies at the local garden supply center. I would go DWC too but I got this down now and I am afraid I would fuck it up.

Good luck man, Keep an eye on them, you know you can lose them fast in that.


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## ganjaboii024 (Apr 2, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Yea, I found most of my drip supplies at the local garden supply center. I would go DWC too but I got this down now and I am afraid I would fuck it up.
> 
> Good luck man, Keep an eye on them, you know you can lose them fast in that.


they seem to be happy, even with the ph swaying between 5.5 after i adjust it, and up to 7 after 2-3 days, the temps are fine untill i flower but ill have to do some work to keep the rez cool in a stealth closet grow with a 250 hps
i tend to be very doubtful of everything so i check twice and then again, hopefully it work out good


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## cruzer101 (Apr 5, 2009)

Starting week 5 flower. Fox Farm nutes at about 75% strength.
PPM 800 pH now at 6.0 temps been around 85d no sign of mites yet. 
I am still looking for those critters though.

I took a shot today while the HPS was off. Its a better example of them.
I don't like to do this during the first month of flower but now is cool.







I lost the two center plants in the back, (well one is still there but it is a whimp)







You might notice on the bottom right, I expended one of the drip points to the other side now. 
This way I get the roots to follow the water to an area they can grow. 

Here's a better shot. I always try and keep the top of the cube and at least one side of hydroton dry.







The white wire is my temperature probe.

​


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## lilmafia513 (Apr 5, 2009)

looking good cruzer!
I love how you use that screen to get a good canopy. 
My Widow finally came completly down yesterday. Colas dried at 15 grams and lowers went in wet at 27 grams. 

What's your timing cycle for flooding the pots?


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## cruzer101 (Apr 6, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> looking good cruzer!
> I love how you use that screen to get a good canopy.
> My Widow finally came completly down yesterday. Colas dried at 15 grams and lowers went in wet at 27 grams.
> 
> What's your timing cycle for flooding the pots?


Those are fat cola's man, right on!

I got them both hooked up to the same timer. 20 min twice a day.
Once when lights go on and once when they go off.


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## cruzer101 (Apr 9, 2009)

I found spider mites. Yep, happened right about now on the other grows to.
Shot the leaf with Safer's spray the last two nights then tonight with water.

Hope that does it. 
I don't have the pest strip this time. I think it made me sick when I used it last.​


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## cruzer101 (Apr 9, 2009)

What the hell, I am here already, heres a pic.







Oh yea, the kids are 5 super silver haze and three Widow. 
They are going to go outside for the summer.





​


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## loh-pan (Apr 9, 2009)

Its unfortunate about the mites. I hope you got them soon and before they caused any real damage. It seems like where you're growing mites are inevitable. I've heard of growers in Amsterdam having trouble since so many people grow and dont take care of their crops. Mites just spread in that kind of environment, i guess...
Good luck with the super cropping. I'm curious as to how it turns out.


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## bf74 (Apr 9, 2009)

awesome grow, great attention to detail. All in all-thanx, I learned alot from this one- take care


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## lilmafia513 (Apr 9, 2009)

Cruzer,
Cant wait for the warm weather here. Got two full trays ready to be picked through for an outdoor adventure this spring. A RW slab is 98 cubes, thats 186 seedlings going at the moment!!!


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## cruzer101 (Apr 9, 2009)

loh-pan said:


> Its unfortunate about the mites. I hope you got them soon and before they caused any real damage. It seems like where you're growing mites are inevitable. I've heard of growers in Amsterdam having trouble since so many people grow and dont take care of their crops. Mites just spread in that kind of environment, i guess...
> Good luck with the super cropping. I'm curious as to how it turns out.


Yes, It seems the only way to prevent them is to filter the intake better and I do not want the extra noise the larger fan will produce. So I deal with them for the last month of the grow. I think I caught them in time now that I know what to look for. I realize they will be back in 2 weeks but then I spray again and 2 weeks later they will be drying.
Thanks.​


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## cruzer101 (Apr 9, 2009)

bf74 said:


> awesome grow, great attention to detail. All in all-thanx, I learned alot from this one- take care


No Problem man.


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## cruzer101 (Apr 10, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> Cruzer,
> Cant wait for the warm weather here. Got two full trays ready to be picked through for an outdoor adventure this spring. A RW slab is 98 cubes, thats 186 seedlings going at the moment!!!


That's one hell of an adventure. 
I am going outside because it is to dam hot in here to grow in the summer. 

Good luck.


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## cruzer101 (Apr 10, 2009)

The hairs on 75% the buds are starting to turn orange. 
Trichome production is a little better then average at this point. All and all looking good.

Here's a bud shot.


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## cruzer101 (Apr 12, 2009)

OK starting week six of flower.
This is where I start adding my own selection of additives. Basically just left over shit. lol Just kidding, but now I stop with the Budswell bat guano and add some of Floras Kool bloom and Floras necter sweetener to fox farms mix. (the sweetener was a give away I dont really think I need it) Temps have been around 86d Nutrients at 900PPM and Ph at 6.0 
I read that keeping pH slightly higher durring flower allows the plants to use the nutrients better. I think I have seen a difference. They seem to bulk up better.
OK on with the pics.

Here are some shots of the veg area. This is fill and drain.

filling up....










Here you can see the drain tube.













Once it gets to the right height it starts to drain








That maintains the correct water level.







I run the pump for 20 min on the same timer as the flower area.
If you look close you can see where the water comes up to the 
bottom of the cube inside the cup.


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## Shrike (Apr 14, 2009)

Looking good Cruzer. All nicely corraled in those last pic's.


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## cruzer101 (Apr 14, 2009)

Thanks Shrike,

Here's a better shot I took today before the light went on. I am going to try to enlarge it without enlarging the threads table.







Hum, I could go bigger.

How about this,







That's 900 by 650 pixels. Seems to work pretty good.


.


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## lilmafia513 (Apr 14, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Thanks Shrike,
> 
> Here's a better shot I took today before the light went on. I am going to try to enlarge it without enlarging the threads table.
> 
> ...


 Looking Good as usual Cruzer!
When ya get time check out the update to the journal and look at my PPP Bush that came down. Got 36 G. weight going into the jars. 
You are gonna get a good harvest this time around, i can see it from the pics!


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## cruzer101 (Apr 14, 2009)

Hey Fire,

Yea, I think so too although I lost a couple this round. You can see the white of the white widow much better without the light on. I'm gonna check out your journal right now.


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## cruzer101 (Apr 18, 2009)

Hey, I took some killer bud shots today. Thought I would share them with you. 
Boy, you can sure tell the difference a good camera makes.







Yea, I know the tips are burnt, I forgot to top off for a few days







This one is cool.







It was shaded so it hasn't matured like the rest. But its comming along.







Not bad at all. I think I am going to like this super cropping.​


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## cutman (Apr 18, 2009)

wow i want to grow like you.great read all of it


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## cruzer101 (Apr 18, 2009)

Thanks Cutman,

Welcome to my journal. Feel free to comment or ask questions.


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## cruzer101 (Apr 18, 2009)

Hum,

I thought I would get more comments with those bud shots.


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## ganjaboii024 (Apr 18, 2009)

nice looking buds, how much longer you giving them? what yield are you expecting to get?
i just cut a little nug off of one of my plants and threw it in the oven at 200F for 15 mins, ground it up and im decently high off 2 hits, it tastes kinda funky, like its not as harsh but it has more of a plant taste i guess cuz i didnt cure it just super quick dried it to test, i have around 70-80% of the hairs turning deep brown on one plant and around 50-60% on the other, i have no idea on tric status cuz i cant find my old magnifier but its been flowering for almost 10.5 weeks now so i think its ganna be cut on 4:20 or at 11 weeks 4:22


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## loh-pan (Apr 18, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Hum,
> 
> I thought I would get more comments with those bud shots.



We are just in awe. You might have to wait longer, until the shock wears off a little!

They look delicious by the way. Like candy. 

I like the flood and drain table you got going. It seems like the perfect place in a plants life for that type of nutrient delivery. I bet it sure beats dipping them each in solution every day. Of course you seem like the kind of person who wouldn't mind that anyway!

about the supercropping... You said you bent them at 8 inches. Did you bend at the middle? I think i read your screen is 9 inches from the base of the plants so i'm trying to think of the spacing here.

Thanks Cruzer. Keep up the great work.


----------



## cruzer101 (Apr 18, 2009)

ganjaboii024 said:


> nice looking buds, how much longer you giving them? what yield are you expecting to get?
> i just cut a little nug off of one of my plants and threw it in the oven at 200F for 15 mins, ground it up and im decently high off 2 hits, it tastes kinda funky, like its not as harsh but it has more of a plant taste i guess cuz i didnt cure it just super quick dried it to test, i have around 70-80% of the hairs turning deep brown on one plant and around 50-60% on the other, i have no idea on tric status cuz i cant find my old magnifier but its been flowering for almost 10.5 weeks now so i think its ganna be cut on 4:20 or at 11 weeks 4:22


They are just starting week 7 of flower today. Most of the pistils are amber and thricomes are cloudy. All my other grows I had to cut them at 8 weeks flower because I had more to move up but this time my babies are going outside.

So, I can flower as long as I want to. I am thinking another couple weeks then a week or so of flushing. Then take the top colas and let the rest go for a couple weeks. We will see.

My guess would be 4 oz dried and cured.

The reason that bud you dried in the oven didn't taste right is because it still had nutes and chlorophyll in it. 
You need to flush it out and cure it properly for the best smoke.

Thanks for dropping by.​


----------



## cruzer101 (Apr 18, 2009)

loh-pan said:


> We are just in awe. You might have to wait longer, until the shock wears off a little!
> 
> They look delicious by the way. Like candy.
> 
> ...


Hi loh pan,

Thanks for the complement on the pics. It took a while to get them right. I love the eye candy.

You are right, I don't mind hand watering them at all. As a matter of fact now I keep looking for something I can do for them. I think I trimmed more leaf this time around the ever before. like a 1/16th of an inch at a time lol.

Yea, the super cropping, I let them get about a foot tall and bent them under the second set of branches from the top. At about eight inches, that's the height of my screen. Now that formed an elbow and they grew sideways. I believe I stunted there growth by about 25% by doing that but the buds are at perfect height and I believe I will get the yield anyway.

Once again, Thanks for your comments and suggestions.​


----------



## lilmafia513 (Apr 18, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Hey, I took some killer bud shots today. Thought I would share them with you.
> Boy, you can sure tell the difference a good camera makes.
> 
> 
> ...


Beautiful trichs cruzer!
Those close ups kick my close ups ass!!LOL!!!!
I thought i was good, but man!!
Nice job cruzer!!


----------



## lilmafia513 (Apr 18, 2009)

ganjaboii024 said:


> nice looking buds, how much longer you giving them? what yield are you expecting to get?
> i just cut a little nug off of one of my plants and threw it in the oven at 200F for 15 mins, ground it up and im decently high off 2 hits, it tastes kinda funky, like its not as harsh but it has more of a plant taste i guess cuz i didnt cure it just super quick dried it to test, i have around 70-80% of the hairs turning deep brown on one plant and around 50-60% on the other, i have no idea on tric status cuz i cant find my old magnifier but its been flowering for almost 10.5 weeks now so i think its ganna be cut on 4:20 or at 11 weeks 4:22


I would say at 10.5 weeks you are ready! Congrats!!
Check out the sig. for the 420 link!!!

*Open invite to Cruzer and all!!!!*

Come join us at this thread at 8 PM EST. on 420 for a large social smoke down and chatter session!
Link below !


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## cruzer101 (Apr 18, 2009)

Hey Fire,

I'll be there man. 

8:00 EST, OK so 11 west coast time. Perfect for me.
Maybe we could hook up via messenger and do a conference call.

See ya there.


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## lilmafia513 (Apr 18, 2009)

ganjaboii024 said:


> nice looking buds, how much longer you giving them? what yield are you expecting to get?
> i just cut a little nug off of one of my plants and threw it in the oven at 200F for 15 mins, ground it up and im decently high off 2 hits, it tastes kinda funky, like its not as harsh but it has more of a plant taste i guess cuz i didnt cure it just super quick dried it to test, i have around 70-80% of the hairs turning deep brown on one plant and around 50-60% on the other, i have no idea on tric status cuz i cant find my old magnifier but its been flowering for almost 10.5 weeks now so i think its ganna be cut on 4:20 or at 11 weeks 4:22





cruzer101 said:


> Hey Fire,
> 
> I'll be there man.
> 
> ...


LOL, you know all us stoners would be too paranoid to conference with other people.....but it would be cool! Probably not allowed though either.


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## cruzer101 (Apr 18, 2009)

Dam, I fucked up.
I just walked into the other room and found all my fish in my fish tank dead.
I posted at toke and talk Here is link if you want to know what happened.

Now I am going to smoke a fatty in there honor because I don't drink anymore.

I will do update on the grow tomorrow.​


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## Readyman (Apr 18, 2009)

Beautiful man!!! Sorry bout your fish though...what a bummer! Thoses LED'S would be a trip to see every day? Im interested in trying them but the ones ive seen are bloody expensive! KUDOS!


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## cutman (Apr 19, 2009)

thank you cruzer.seeing those pic gives me hope.its a growing.sry about fish i know that can get costly.


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## ganjaboii024 (Apr 19, 2009)

sorry bout the fish


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## loh-pan (Apr 19, 2009)

Sorry about the fish, i hate those brain fart moments.
It's too bad, cichlids have an interesting evolutionary past.


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## cruzer101 (Apr 19, 2009)

loh-pan said:


> Sorry about the fish, i hate those brain fart moments.
> It's too bad, cichlids have an interesting evolutionary past.


Yes, from what I understand they were saltwater fish that swam up river and when an earthquake made the ground rise it reversed the river and made a lake that landlocked one type. They have evolved to over 500 different varieties over the last 100,000 years. I originally started collecting them because I liked the way they would eat live goldfish. After I got board of that I continued because of there beautiful colors.

Well, at least my tank is clean now. One good thing is I can add new fish now. If I tried that before they would be fish food.​


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## cruzer101 (Apr 20, 2009)

OK, enough fish talk, On with the grow.

Starting week 7 of flower. Temps are rising and the Spider mites are back. Right on schedule.
I sprayed them with Safers and I will do it again tomorrow. Then the next day with just water to wash it off. 
It will take two weeks for them to come back. By then it will be time to cut. 

I let them go for 24 hours without watering. My thinking is I am trying to get the plant to use up the stored 
nutrients before the next batch to see if I can cut down on the amount of time it takes to flush. 
They were a little droopy when I changed out the res today. 850PPM and 6.0 pH 







After about an hour they were back. well except for the tip of one bud that's kinda sideways. 
I am going to do it again next week. That should be the final week of nutes. 
If they are not ready I will cut nutes in half again for one more week.

Say goodbye to the kids.







They went to my buddy's house today. I prepared they new homes in 5 gallon buckets. Like the camouflage? 
They will be placed in between other plants. Just in case someone peeks over the fence they don't see white buckets.







I drilled a one inch hole in the bottom of each one for drainage. We will have five Super Silver Haze 
in these buckets and three White widow and one Apollo in the ground.
The haze is suppose to get pretty big so we wanted them in buckets in case we need to move them.

Oh I almost forgot. I wanted to share this pic of a bud I took today with the point and shoot camera. I noticed three or four of the buds fanning out at the top. Here's the shot.







and closer...







I call her flat top.​


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## loh-pan (Apr 20, 2009)

Its a little late to suggest this, but i just thought of it now. Neem oil is suppose to be good preventative treatment for mites. I heard its not good if you already have an infestation, but just thought i'd throw it out there.

You take some nice pics. What type of camera/lens do you use?

So what happens now? After these lady's finish up what am i suppose to look forward to on RIU?

Oh and happy 4:20


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## cruzer101 (Apr 20, 2009)

loh-pan said:


> Its a little late to suggest this, but i just thought of it now. Neem oil is suppose to be good preventative treatment for mites. I heard its not good if you already have an infestation, but just thought i'd throw it out there.
> 
> You take some nice pics. What type of camera/lens do you use?
> 
> ...


Hey loh pan,

Thanks for the info on neem oil. I have heard it was a good treatment but I had already purchased two bottles of Safers spray. I am about out of it and will try neem oil next. Preventive treatment huh? I will look into that.

In regards to what type of camera I use I have a Cannon Power shot A75 that I use most of the time in foliage/macro mode. I broke a cardinal rule of growers and told my friend who has a professional camera to come over and I used his for those last close ups. (not flatop that was the cannon) Funny thing, when he took pics they didn't come out as well as mine. I guess I am just used to taking pics of plants. His is a Nikon with removable lens not sure of the model number.

As far as what happens now, I found out last summer it was just too hot to grow in a cabinet (besides I have more then enough smoke) so I am taking a break for the summer. Hopefully I will still have pictures to share once a week of the outdoor grow. I have mentioned this to my buddy and he has agreed to get me pics. In September I will have revamped the cabinet and will start a Train wreck grow with five fem seeds I have. 
I am cutting a hole in the floor and the bottom of the cabinet, its going to supply air from under the house. Then all I have in the window is an exhaust. I plan on making a window box, adding a Panasonic whisper fan they use in bathrooms and keeping the blinds up, just angled down so it looks cool from outside. Then for the hydro setup I am going to build a custom NFT system where all i need to do upon transplant is replace eight 3 inch netpots. I will start them in the fill and drain in the net pots with 1 inch rock wool and hydroton and then just move them up. For lighting I am going to upgrade to a digital ballast and maybe try one of those new ceremac metal halied bulbs. Placement will remain the same however I would like to add some uv rays. we will see.

Until then, we have the finish of this grow where I intend to harvest the tops and let the lower buds develop some more to see if I can improve yield and I should be able to share the outdoor grow pics.​So, don&#8217;t give up on me. I will always be around. I intend to post links here to any other threads I start.

Thanks again for sticking around and adding your comments and suggestions

Happy 420 to you too!​


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## lilmafia513 (Apr 20, 2009)

Happy 420 Cruzer, getting ready to go outside, good idea. It is right around the corner now. Happy 420 Cruz


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## cutman (Apr 20, 2009)

hope your 420 was great. great grow.


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## cruzer101 (Apr 21, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> Happy 420 Cruzer, getting ready to go outside, good idea. It is right around the corner now. Happy 420 Cruz


Hey Fire, Yea gonna give it a shot. I hope it turns out good.
Always a Happy 420, You too!


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## cruzer101 (Apr 21, 2009)

cutman said:


> hope your 420 was great. great grow.


It sure was cutman. or is it It sure is? fuck I dont know. 

Happy 420!


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## cruzer101 (Apr 22, 2009)

Here is the first shot of the babes in the sun. They were moved after this shot to there new homes. 
We have 5 super silver haze, 3 White Widow and 1 Apollo.














My Bud named them "The Dream Team" hes a sports freak. lol


I am working on new plans for the cabinet. I have just found LED lighting may be within my grasp. 
What once would have cost me $600 is now $288 on eBay. 120 watts of led Power and fans 
combined in one light that's is spread out enough for my grow.​


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## lilmafia513 (Apr 23, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Here is the first shot of the babes in the sun. They were moved after this shot to there new homes.
> We have 5 super silver haze, 3 White Widow and 1 Apollo.
> 
> 
> ...


Hey cruzer, 
Dont know what you are looking at specifically on ebay, but i was told by the guy at the hydro store to stay away from buying LEDs off ebay, a guy bought one once and came into the store with it. The owner said it looked like a piece of cardboard with xmas lights poked through it. not at all what it was described as.
But im sure you have done your research on it, just be careful man!
But other than that, the dream team looks great, i gotta get that far one of these days. Got the spot, the sprouts, and the rest, just not enough time lately to do anything.


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## ganjaboii024 (Apr 23, 2009)

looking great 

when i was looking into LED technology i saw the procyon 100, its a 100 watts of led power in one lamp and they compared its results to a 400 hps growing lettuce, google it


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## Packet. (Apr 25, 2009)

ganjaboii024 said:


> looking great
> 
> when i was looking into LED technology i saw the procyon 100, its a 100 watts of led power in one lamp and they compared its results to a 400 hps growing lettuce, google it


they have a demo of this at a local hydro shop, does better then the ufo led but with that price tag i'll wait until it drops even more.


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## cruzer101 (Apr 26, 2009)

Hey Fire,

Yea you are right I have looked at a few LED grow lights and followed a few journals. Thing is, I still don't think this will flower better than what I got. I think I understand what I am getting into. Who knows, Well lets find out.


I would say I seen the polygon produce about 65% of what this 400w HPS will. That is with 100 watts LED. The right mix. they use high power leds.

This light is 120w and made here is silicon valley. I like the design and always wanted a more efficent system. Heres a shot 









 Here's the info on it.

* UFX-120W *

_*Product Description:*_
_ Read About "LED GROW LIGHT" at Wiki "Recent advancements in  LEDs have allowed for the production of relatively cheap, bright and long lasting grow lights that emit only the colors of light required for plant growth. These lights are attractive to indoor-growers since they do not consume as much power, do not require ballasts, and produce a fraction of the heat of HID lamps. The lamps consist of arrays of many wide-spectrum red and a few narrow-spectrum blue LEDs of specific wavelengths. Although LED grow lights have shown promise through plant research by  NASA and many universities, it is unknown whether the results are applicable to ______, as their  luminous efficiency is much lower."_
_High Powered 120 Watt Grow Light_
_Why LED Grow Light?_


_Reduces 80% to 90% in energy consumption compared to fluorescents tubes, HPS and MH_
_Built in fans (3 high power fans)_
_90% to 95% of lights are absorbed unlike HPS_
_Heat is reduced over 70% compared to HPS_
_Lifespan is about 50,000 hours_
_Minimal maintenance_
_Wide angle rays_
_Minimal installation required_
_ Input Voltage - 110 +/_ 10% 50-60 hz_
_ Power Output - 120 Watt (More powerful than a 500 Watt HPS)_
_ LED Configuration - 112 x 1.07 Watt LED, 100 Red + 12 Blue _
_ BridgeLux Blue LED (USA Made)_
_ Lux (center) - 118 Lux/2.5m 55 lux/3.5m_
_ Lumen - Approx. 3600 Lm_
_ Lighting Coverage - 12 SQ. FT +/__
_ Lifespan - 50,000 Hrs_
_ LED made by BridgeLux (USA)_
_ WaveLength - Red=630nm, Blue=452nm_

* ROHS and CE Certified - International Compliance for Safety Standards*
*UFO vs UFX-120W *​




_This is a comparison between the UFO and the NEW 120W. As you can see the new ratio of Red and Blue LED. Base on our customer feedback these lights are much more efficient and the outcome is better stronger yielding plants. _
_We dear to compare our lights with any LED Grow Lights on the Market._​


Not exactly Christmas tree lights in cardboard are they?
Just Kidding, I know there is a lot of crap on eBay thanks for the warning.

So I look at it and figure if I have half as much grow area then it covers and I keep them in the screen so I keep it close, I just may be able to get a couple oz's outta this, do it with 25% of the electricity. So its a go.

Im watching the auction, he has several of them and the price went down $10 this week. I ordered the new exhaust fan today 80cfm whisper fan. suppose to be silent. 1.5 zones.

.​


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## lilmafia513 (Apr 26, 2009)

Cruz,
Hey man, they look a lot better than what i heard about. I looked into the LEDS when i first got on this site, but heard that there was not enough evidence to suport that it was any better or as good as a HPS. Now.....i would be willing, and would love to try my hand at some LEDS in the veg cabinet. 

Don't worry, i'll be watching, and you may make a believer out of me. I really want the LEDS to be good for growing, due to the low cost to operate them. I'd never get a UFO though...LOL.... they just look funny to me, like those cheap push button hall lights, that run off two AA batteries. LOL!!
Fan sounds good, got a link to it? I need to upgrade one of these days from the 6 inch inline i have.

Well, hope it works out, and keep me informed please!! Have a good one, it's about 80 here today, so i gotta go walk through the woods........
lilmafia


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## cruzer101 (Apr 26, 2009)

Starting week 8 of flower.

You know, I have been running about 800ppms and they still have burnt tips. 
I think it got up to like 1300 for a day or so a couple weeks ago and it never recovered. 
The buds are filling out well enough, so I am going to drop the nutrients some this week. 

Going with 600ppm and a pH of 6.0pH
Here is a shot from an angle







The front of the canopy,







And here is a better shot of the back. see the three on the left? They have fully matured already.







A couple buds fanned out and grew 4 or 5 small buds out of them. 
These were the from the clones I took from greenhouse WW seed. ​


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## cutman (Apr 26, 2009)

Hey bud.nice ww i want some lol. My ladys start there 6 week today. How many do you have there and whats the size is you flower area?


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## cruzer101 (Apr 30, 2009)

Hey cutman,

The cabinet is 36' wide by 18" deep. This flower turned out to be about 24" wide and 15" deep. It depends on how I veg them. I am learning new things every grow.

Good luck with your girls.


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## cruzer101 (Apr 30, 2009)

Hi people, 

As I consider LED lighting I read all this information on what type of light to use, how far to place it from the plant, what color or temp of the light is best to use but one thing seems to remain constant, The time cycle. 18/6 and 12/12. I know some people go 24/7 veg but generally this is whats used.

When you consider how sensitive cannabis is to light you have to think maybe there is more to it. I am sure I am not the first to consider this, so I thought I would run this by you and see what you think. 

I am sure you have noticed the difference between indoor and outdoor production. We try to re-create Mother Nature Including the light cycle but could it be fine tuned for maximum bud production? This is what I found.

Hours of daylight at 40° Latitude (approximate center of the US)

April 13:14
May 15:22
June 15:00
July 14:49
August 13:48
September 12:31
October 11:10
November 10:01

Take a plant that has an eight week flowering period and would normally be ready in early October if grown outdoors.

At the beginning of flowering period it would be getting 13:48 of daylight.
At the end of the flowering period it would be getting 11:10 hours of daylight.

Thats a 2 1/2 hour difference, yet we keep it at 12/12
How about this?

8 week flower:
Week 1 and 2 at 13/11
Week 3 and 4 12:30/11:30
Week 5 and 6 12/12
Week 7 and 8 11/13

Maybe this is the key to getting better production out of LED lighting.
Has anyone tried this or have any comments?

P.S.I also found out holding down alt, and typing 0176 will give you ° symbol


.​


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## lilmafia513 (Apr 30, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Hi people,
> 
> As I consider LED lighting I read all this information on what type of light to use, how far to place it from the plant, what color or temp of the light is best to use but one thing seems to remain constant, The time cycle. 18/6 and 12/12. I know some people go 24/7 veg but generally this is whats used.
> 
> ...


Hey cruz,
Ive heard of people playing with the lighting schedules before to see the results in the buds. Think about giving it a try with the HIDS too? Wonder if that would be worth anything?


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## loh-pan (May 2, 2009)

Ive never heard of varying the light cycles throughout flower. As I understand, 12 hours of darkness signals hormones which induce flowering. I remember coming across some survey that proposed the 'best' day/light schedule for maximum yield. I don't remember the result but it was something like 24 hrs light and 13 hrs dark. I think the whole point of the survey was to find the effect of the length of light cycles (longer than a day) on yield.

The choice of latitude would probably depend on strain and where it would flourish. An Sativa dominant strain would probably do best along the tropic of cancer, 23.5°

If 12 hrs dark is absolutely required for flowering and you want the maximum amount of light for production then longer-than-a-day cycles seem to be a good option. 

It would be good to experiment with varying cycles to see the outcome and hopefully benefits. Worst case you might just have to flower for a bit longer.


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## cruzer101 (May 2, 2009)

Hi Lo pan,

Good point, I am sure it would be strain specific to select the correct latitude. Like I said I am sure I am not the first to think of this. Everywhere in the world the days get shorter and longer in time. It just seemed to me if you are trying to replicate mother nature in our grows then its something to consider. I have dropped to 11 hours dark for the last couple weeks on my second grow and come to think about it, I think those were my best buds. 12 hours dark will stimulate flower yes but, whos to say you couldnt go 12/12 for like the first two weeks then change it to its natural cycle once in flower? 
I think I am going to try it next round.

The photoperiod of 21:36/12 for flowering does sound like a good option.
I have read the journal. Basically five long day and night cycles set with a seven day timer. Supposed to improve yield by 20% or more I think it was. You do it for one or two weeks towards the end, like week 6 and 7. 
I actually bought a seven day timer and programmed it but then realized that right now I run my lights during the night for stealth reasons and I cant try it until I make my modifications.

Here is the cycle 

Day 1 - Sunday, 6:00am til Monday, 3:36am
Day 2 - Monday, 3:36pm til Tuesday, 1:12pm
Day 3 - Wednesday, 1:12am til Wednesday, 10:48pm
Day 4 - Thursday, 10:48am til Friday 8:24am
Day 5 - Friday, 8:24pm til Saturday 6:00pm

I saw pictures of plants he did it with in his journal. I am not saying it is fact but he did sound like he knew what he was talking about. Anyway, I am ready to give this one a go as well but not both on the same batch.
​


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## cruzer101 (May 2, 2009)

Starting week nine of Flower.​ 
Keeping ppm at 600 pH 6.0​ 









Ok they have been flowering for eight weeks now and I got some cloudy trichs but still some clear ones.








​Bud shot: a little larger then I thought, still workin on this picture thing.







​Here is a shot of one in the back. I got three or four like this.





 


lookin good huh.​ 






.​


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## cruzer101 (May 2, 2009)

Here are the first pics of them where they will grow. So far looking good. Plants are stretching some but thats expected.

















We need them to get about another foot or so to get decent light.







So, What do you think Dirt farmers?

.​


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## lilmafia513 (May 4, 2009)

Looks good Cruzer, got mine in cups still, need them small for moving.......harvested today!!!YAY!!


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## Freddie Roach (May 4, 2009)

Subscribed! Looking good, how tall do you your plants end up? Im gonna be growing 3-6 plants to about 2'-3' tall and I'm hoping to get beween 1-2.5 ounces per plant. The strain is supposed to get up to 600g/m2 and i have read other peoples journals and it is holding true to being a high yielding strain. im gonna be using a 50w blue LED pannel for veging and ill veg till about 10"-12" tall then flower under a 400w hps. BTW how did you make your cooltube?


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## Freddie Roach (May 4, 2009)

OH and i forgot to say, the strain is LSD and it is supposed to grow to about 65cm


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## That 5hit (May 4, 2009)

bud???????????


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## cruzer101 (May 4, 2009)

Freddie Roach said:


> Subscribed! Looking good, how tall do you your plants end up? I'm gonna be growing 3-6 plants to about 2'-3' tall and I'm hoping to get be ween 1-2.5 ounces per plant. The strain is supposed to get up to 600g/m2 and i have read other peoples journals and it is holding true to being a high yielding strain. I'm gonna be using a 50w blue LED panel for veging and ill veg till about 10"-12" tall then flower under a 400w hps. BTW how did you make your cooltube?


Hi Freddie,

Welcome to my journal. I am currently growing White Widow. Without any pruning they would average about 3 feet. Thats too tall or me so I top, twist, pinch, bend and train them. I have been averaging about 1/2 oz per plant. I am sure if I left them alone I would get more but I didnt have the room. 

I haven't looked into LSD strain but it sounds good. If you haven't got the seeds yet you may want to look at Green House seeds "The Doctor" for a high yield. Here is info:









Click to enlarge *Breeder :* Greenhouse Seeds 
*Flowering Time :* 8 weeks 
*Environment :* Indoor/Outdoor 
*Seeds Per Pack :* 5 
Awards: not yet introduced to competitions. 
Genetics: Great White Shark, South Indian, Super Skunk. 
Effect: very strong indica with instant body effect, stoned and very long lasting. 
Flowering indoor: ready to harvest in 8 weeks. An extra week will give amazing resin and a sweeter taste. Yield up to 800 gr/sqm. 
Flowering outdoor: ready around the end of September in the Northern hemisphere; or around end of April in the Southern. 

Yield up to 1200 gr/plant. 

THC: 18.4% CBD: 1.1% CBN: 0.4% 

Cost $15.10 for 5 fem seeds at seedbotique.com 
After I grow my Train wreck I am going to give them a shot. 

For the cool tube I use one of several DIY posts. Here is one for ya.
http://forum.grasscity.com/grow-room-design-setup/184802-diy-best-cool-tube.html


.​


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## cruzer101 (May 4, 2009)

Hi people,

Well I have come to a decision in regards to lighting change. After researching LED grows, including high power LED and reading several claims as well as several journals with pictures from experienced growers even with the two reds and adding a bit of white to the blue has not performed as well as I want. I have come to realize (once again) LEDs are still another year or so out for flowering... 

However I did find something new that I am going to try, Ceramic Metal Halide bulb that runs off standard HPS ballast. (Not digital) It has the best spectrum I can find, dissipates less heat and it does it out the ends of the bulb that will be better in a cool tube design. It has UV spectrum too. I bought the bulb today online for $60
​


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## Freddie Roach (May 5, 2009)

Thanks for the help, i will look into it.


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## cruzer101 (May 6, 2009)

No problem Freddie.


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## cruzer101 (May 6, 2009)

Hi people,

I added a few more things to my arsenal of plant supplies today. I may have to get a bigger cabinet. I got Epsom salts, Hydrogen peroxide and neem oil. I gave my buddy the FF grow I had to use on the dream team so I would have space. I need the hydro version anyway.

I knew the spider mites would be back and I was out of Safers spray so I got the Neem oil. They hatched and were all over one plant today so I started with neem oil. I figure I will apply it the same as I did the Safers spray. Next grow I will just give them a shot every two weeks if I see them or not.

When I apply it I shoot up from under the screen and then I bend the plants with one hand while spraying the bottom of the leaf with the other. Well I will tell you what, Now I know why Earl called this strain "stinky" widow. You dont notice it until you touch the plant but MAN does it stink! Its an extremely strong musky diesel skunk smell. 

You probably have noticed that on every attempt at about the 3rd or 4th week of flower my plants get burnt tips. I have tried lowering the nutrient solution but that just doesnt solve the problem so I figure I have a deficiency. Maybe it is because of the small res I use, maybe it is because I never really have killed the dam spider mites. I have tried everything I can think of. They always come back. 

Anyway, I have been thinking. I need a new cabinet to be sure there are no mites, 36x24 this time. Then under my house there is no vegatation so there is no spider mites. co2 naturaly drops so I will still get that. I am going to cut a hole in the floor and screen it with a nylon stocking or silk screen. That will be my new intake and I should be done with the mite thing. Maybe then I will be able to get more then 1/2 oz a plant.

I am also going to try a couple things this next grow. One is to add Epsom salts to the res in the 3rd week of veg and the 3rd week of flower. From what I understand this boost of mg will help the plants use the nutrients more effectively. Second is to start using Hydrogen peroxide at about 3% per gallon in each res change. This will add oxygen to the root zone and help kill unwanted bacteria. Then the shot of neem oil every two weeks as a preventive measure against the mites. 

Sooner or later I will get this right. (Dam, it still stinks in here)​


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## cruzer101 (May 7, 2009)

Looks like they are done to me.

I started flushing last night and trimmed off a few leaves Heres a shot of the buds.









Heres a close up shot of the trichs







Actually I cut this one off and took the shot without the HPS to get a better idea.
Yup looks done to me.


.


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## lilmafia513 (May 9, 2009)

Cruzer,
Congrats looks like another good harvest soon!
Good luck with the dream team, on my way out the door finally today, too wet to go out before now. 70 babies, should make an interesting season!LOL!!


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## phreakygoat (May 9, 2009)

wow, those stems are awesome looking! you may have just inspired my next grow, as I had been hesitant about SCroG previously... nice!


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## cruzer101 (May 9, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> Cruzer,
> Congrats looks like another good harvest soon!
> Good luck with the dream team, on my way out the door finally today, too wet to go out before now. 70 babies, should make an interesting season!LOL!!


Interesting? you're going to need a compass to find your way out!


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## cruzer101 (May 9, 2009)

phreakygoat said:


> wow, those stems are awesome looking! you may have just inspired my next grow, as I had been hesitant about SCroG previously... nice!


Hey Goat,

Funny you should mention that. When I went to crop the pic my friend said " no, no, just the buds man." I said no way, 
The whole purpose to this grow was to make those suckers go 90° under the screen and fat. I wanted to show it off. 

I got to believe I got those stalks to grow so big by keeping the temp in the root zone within 10° of the canopy with a max of 70°. They get even bigger if you dont fold them.


Thanks for pointing it out.


.​


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## panta (May 9, 2009)

great grow,love it


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## cruzer101 (May 9, 2009)

panta said:


> great grow,love it


 
Hey Panta,

Thanks man, Hope you got some ideas for that 600w of yours.​


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## cruzer101 (May 9, 2009)

New Bulb has landed.

Talk about a swing, I was considering LED then this. Thought you may want to check it out. Phillips new Ceramic Metal Halide. Its got it all and then some. 
Largest wattage available is 400 watts. Works on 400w Magnetic HPS ballast.









Full Spectrum bulb at 4000k 400 watts. I have flowered with a standard Metal Halide at 4000K before and got great results. My first grow with Water farms was 400W MH in the center. This is suppose to be much better then that. 



​





See how it covers the UV 400nm spectrum, thats just as strong as the deep red.
I think I will get better pics with this too. ​.​


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## panta (May 9, 2009)

that looks good,il post some pics when im set


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## cruzer101 (May 14, 2009)

Okay, we went 9 weeks with them in flower and last week at 11-13 and last 24hr dark. 
I think they could have gone another week or so but the mites were back so I cut them.

Looks good, Here are some trichome shots.







As you can see most were milky, they were just turning amber, even closer for that.







Yea, some were still clear too.

Killer shots huh?
Thanks to my buds Nikon camera.

I just finished trimming and hanging them, I will have some shots tomorrow. My guess would be 3oz dried and cured.


.​


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## sir drosky (May 15, 2009)

Daaaaamn cruzer that's some nice lookin equipment I wish I had the cash for somethin like that, and the green looks very nice, best of luck to you


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## danksmoker77 (May 15, 2009)

hey cruzer what ever happened with the nutrient challenge! seems like it just disappearead. I was following your journal on cc then it just stopped it was very very informative. is it anywhere else as detailed as it was on cc? I would like to see the results? did anyone finish?


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## cruzer101 (May 15, 2009)

sir drosky said:


> Daaaaamn cruzer that's some nice lookin equipment I wish I had the cash for somethin like that, and the green looks very nice, best of luck to you



Hey Drosky,

Yea that bulb set me back $70 but I bet I make it back in the first harvest. Thanks for your input, good luck to you too.​


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## cruzer101 (May 15, 2009)

danksmoker77 said:


> hey cruzer what ever happened with the nutrient challenge! seems like it just disappearead. I was following your journal on cc then it just stopped it was very very informative. is it anywhere else as detailed as it was on cc? I would like to see the results? did anyone finish?


Hey smoker,

Yea, it did kinda fizzle out. I was disappointed when I found I couldn't sex them Early enough for my grow. My understanding was everyone was going to start at the same time but that didn't happen and I don't think people thought it was to be as detailed as we found out after some had started. Unfortunately I do not have a link for you besides the original links to the journals at cc. If you don't have them, Here they are.

Nutrient Challenge Grow Journal links:
Stinky Widow Cindy

Journal - JohnnyPotSeed
Journal - Cruzer 101
Journal - Burly 55 
Journal - Greenthumb111
Journal - RebelDawg
Journal - Smoove
Journal - JuniorGrower 
Journal - Paul 
Journal - MediChronic 
Journal - Krimzon 
Journal - Earl

Actually the two center plants of this last batch were stinky Cindy but unfortunately while harvesting I mixed them up.

I did keep my nutrient mix for there grow if you are interested.


Amounts are per gallon.
Seedling stage 
First Week R/O water only.
Second Week 10 ml Nitrozime
Start Veg.
Top off res every two days. If ppms lower add nutes to 500ppm
.
Week 1
5 ml Flora nova grow, 5ml floralicious grow, 10ml Diamond nectar.500ppm pH 5.5
Week 2
5 ml Flora nova grow, 5ml floralicious grow, 10ml Diamond nectar.500ppm pH 5.5
Week 3 
5 ml Flora nova grow, 5ml floralicious grow, 10ml Diamond nectar. 500ppm pH 5.4
Week 4 
10ml Flora nova grow, 5ml floralicious grow, 5ml Big Bloom, 
10ml Diamond nectar pH 5.7.

Flower: First Flush 24 hrs R/O

Amounts are per gallon. Then where noted I added about 25% more water to get nutrients down to around 800ppm.
Once started top off res every two days.

Week5 
5ml FF tiger bloom, 10ml FF big bloom, 15ml diamond nectar. 15ml Budswell. 390ppm pH 5.5
Week 6 
10ml FF tiger bloom, 10ml FF big bloom, 15ml diamond nectar. 15ml Budswell. 750ppm pH 5.5
Week 7 Flush 24 hrs
10 ml grow big, 15ml FF big bloom, 10ml Diamond nectar. 15ml Budswell. 1100PPM diluted to 800PPM ppm pH 5.7
Week 8 
10 ml grow big, 15ml FF big bloom, 10ml Diamond nectar. 10ml Budswell. 1050ppm diluted to 820 ppms pH 5.7 
Week 9 4/3
5 ml grow big, 10ml FF big bloom, 10ml tiger bloom 15 ml Budswell. 1020 diluted to 900 ppms pH 6.0
Week 10 4/11
5 ml grow big, 10ml FF big bloom, 10ml tiger bloom, 5 ml Flora nectar 5ml Kool Bloom 1150 diluted to 980 ppms pH 6.0
Week 11
5 ml grow big, 10ml FF big bloom, 10ml tiger bloom, 10ml Kool Bloom. 1280ppm diluted to 860 ppms pH 6.0
Week 12
5 ml FF big bloom, 7.5 ml tiger bloom, 650ppms pH 5.9
Week 13 Flush straight R/O water.
Change every two days.
1st change 600ppms
2nd change 120ppms
3rd change 90ppms
waited one day then 24 hours dark and harvest. 


*Note I think I vegged for an extra 2 weeks but the flower is right.​


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## lilmafia513 (May 15, 2009)

Hey cruzer, i bet that light rocks next round!!!!
You got a link? Or was a store buy? Might be interested in that, gotta change the bulbs soon. 
Well, finally threw the girls outside and they seem to be handling the change very well!
Good luck on the next one Cruz!


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## johanrichards (May 17, 2009)

My eyes are bloodshot. And not from smoking this time. Its from reading your journal from start to finish. Just finished a soil WW scrog in a chest. Low yield but learned from my mistakes. Im in love with your cabinet set up with the young ones vegging on the bottom. Probably the design for my next adventure. Is there any light bleed when the cabinet is shut? I know you said you like the smell but how strong is it outside the cabinet? My grow has to be stealth. Definitely subscribed. Hows the dream team doing outside?


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## cruzer101 (May 17, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> Hey cruzer, i bet that light rocks next round!!!!
> You got a link? Or was a store buy? Might be interested in that, gotta change the bulbs soon.
> Well, finally threw the girls outside and they seem to be handling the change very well!
> Good luck on the next one Cruz!


Hey Fire,

Yea man, I really think I got the best bulb available for my setup and this next one will be the best yet.

Link? do I have a link? Of course I have a link.
Master Color Ceramic Metal Halide Link
$55 was the best deal I found and got it in about a week.

Good to hear the girls are taking to the sunshine. Did you harden them off or straight to the rays? Thats what I did with no problem.


.
​


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## cruzer101 (May 17, 2009)

johanrichards said:


> My eyes are bloodshot. And not from smoking this time. Its from reading your journal from start to finish. Just finished a soil WW scrog in a chest. Low yield but learned from my mistakes. Im in love with your cabinet set up with the young ones vegging on the bottom. Probably the design for my next adventure. Is there any light bleed when the cabinet is shut? I know you said you like the smell but how strong is it outside the cabinet? My grow has to be stealth. Definitely subscribed. Hows the dream team doing outside?



Hey Rich,

Yea, its a long one. I am glad you enjoyed it. You learned from your mistakes on your first grow? Good. Thats what it's all about. As you can tell from the read I am constantly learning. Thanks for the complement on the grow. I have used this to look back and see where I could improve. 

To answer your questions, No there is no light leak. I used weather stripping around the doors. From say, six feet away you cant tell a thing. Standing right next to it you can hear the duct fan but I placed a small personal refer next to it on a file cabinet. I blame the noise on that if anyone asks
The smell isn't that bad really, It is vented outside through a window behind the cabinet. I got a piece of Styrofoam, cut the holes, ran the ducting, covered it in black cloth and slid the window against it.

Right now I have both intake and exhaust vented outside. My next move is to change that up a bit. I think you will like it.

The Dream Team? I got some pics today. It is hard to believe how fast these things are growing. I will upload the pics...

Be right back.

.
​


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## cruzer101 (May 17, 2009)

I swear these girls have tripled in size in three weeks. They are growing much faster then I figured.







I am going over there this week to top them to get the lower branches to catch up and set up there screen. 
Oh, Did I mention this grow will be an outdoor SCROG?. 

We don't want them taller then the fence so I am setting the screen about 18" from the top of the fence and training them along the fence line. Just like the cabinet, once we see preflowers we will pretty much let them go. as long as the buds are not longer then 18" If they get too tall we can always tie them down but I dont see them getting taller then 18"







Nine blade leaves already.







Look at how fat the stocks are. Its the Super Silver Haze.

If this works like we plan, we will have about 20 feet of buds.
(hence the name dream Team)

Here is the dirt mix we decided on.

Dream Team dirt mix
35% mulch soil redwood 
35% planting mix no ferts.
15% perlite 
15% sand 

We are watering 3 times a week and feeding Fox Farm Nutes.


.


.​


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## cruzer101 (May 17, 2009)

4th harvest: White Widow

I found by super croping I believe I stunted growth. I used the same watering system but the root system 
did not get as big so I have to assume the buds were not as large as they could have been either.














See the difference?

So, Next time I will supercrop the four on the outside, point them towards the center like I 
did this time but the four in the center I will just train to grow to the outside. 



.
​


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## cruzer101 (May 17, 2009)

Dam its hot. We are having a bit of a heat wave here this weekend. Temps 90 to 100°

I know I hung this batch only four days ago but they are dry already. 
Usually I give them a week then in paper bags for a couple days but not this time. 
I cut the buds off the stocks and put them in jars, these are going in the fridge.







I think this will be the strongest stuff so far. I say that because usualy they have a cut grass smell 
to them at this time. These dont. There loaded with trichomes and have real dank smell.

Hopefully they didnt dry too fast. 
I did manacure them a little closer this time maybe thats why.

Oh, by the way, I found a seed. looks like at least one of them hermed. 
It's not tiger striped but it looks intact. I am sure there is more.

.​


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## johanrichards (May 17, 2009)

excited to follow the DREAM TEAM outdoor SCROG


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## lilmafia513 (May 18, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Hey Fire,
> 
> Yea man, I really think I got the best bulb available for my setup and this next one will be the best yet.
> 
> ...


Nope, straight out side.
I read in the link this bulb requires a 400 watt HPS ballast, i only have MH ballast. Why would you need a HPS ballast to run a MH light? or am i confused again?
LOL!! Dream team looks great cruzer!


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## cruzer101 (May 18, 2009)

Yea Fire, It needs a HPS ballast. The old type, Magnetic not a digital one.

The way I understand it is, its an all purpose bulb. You can veg and flower with it. Its not a regular Halide bulb its like a mix of both bulbs but the sodium part needs something called an igniter so they built it around a HPS ballast.

Then you got equal amounts of the full spectrum. Just blast it with that and it uses the light it needs when it needs it. No more switch because the bulb covers it all. I was impressed with the flowering possibilities so I checked out a couple journals and so far people say they like it. Good bud production and runs cooler. I am still going to veg with T5 and LED but this will flower the next batch.

The name is deceiving though, You do need a HPS ballast.​


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## phreakygoat (May 18, 2009)

Wow, those dream teamers are fucking legit. how did you get so much concentration on vertical growth, is it a sativa? did you start them from clones or seeds? (sorry, I'm too stoned to remember)
great harvest!


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## MyGTO2007 (May 18, 2009)

check your messages please


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## cruzer101 (May 18, 2009)

phreakygoat said:


> Wow, those dream teamers are fucking legit. how did you get so much concentration on vertical growth, is it a sativa? did you start them from clones or seeds? (sorry, I'm too stoned to remember)
> great harvest!


Thats Super Silver Haze man. The tall ones. I got the five fem seeds from green house seeds. Those were "the kids" from my last grow. Then three Widow and single Apollo but they are not as impressive as the haze.

I need to make some changes so I figured they will veg for a couple months I got time to swap cabinets, take a couple cuttings and start again.​


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## Packet. (May 18, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Yea Fire, It needs a HPS ballast. The old type, Magnetic not a digital one.
> 
> The way I understand it is, its an all purpose bulb. You can veg and flower with it. Its not a regular Halide bulb its like a mix of both bulbs but the sodium part needs something called an igniter so they built it around a HPS ballast.
> 
> ...


I have one of these in a 600w version works perfect on my lumatek digital ballast.


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## cruzer101 (May 19, 2009)

Thats interesting. Everything I have read states the CMH largest size is 400w.
Do you mean to say you are running a 400w CMH on a 600w digital ballast?

If thats the case, From what I understand your bulb will last about 20% of it's life.
It will work but not as long. Sort of defeats the purpose. This is supposed to last much longer. Thats why I say use metallic ballast.

Thanks for the info though.​.


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## Packet. (May 19, 2009)

www.ebay.com check item # 280343142151


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## cruzer101 (May 20, 2009)

Hey Packet, that's cool. I see what you mean now. Its not the same light but very similar.
So this runs off a digital ballast? Good to know there is an option. I am looking at a larger operation and was thinking two 600s 

So let me ask you, You said it worked perfect right, the first time you flowered with it, do you think you got larger buds then with a sodium?

.​


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## Packet. (May 22, 2009)

i havent used it in a grow yet, my next grow i am going to use it since its a bit late to swap them now.




cruzer101 said:


> Hey Packet, that's cool. I see what you mean now. Its not the same light but very similar.
> So this runs off a digital ballast? Good to know there is an option. I am looking at a larger operation and was thinking two 600s
> 
> So let me ask you, You said it worked perfect right, the first time you flowered with it, do you think you got larger buds then with a sodium?
> ...


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## cruzer101 (May 24, 2009)

Dam, I am having a hell of a time finding a new cabinet. The guy I got the last one from had hundreds of used ones in a large warehouse. Hes out of business. There are still a couple places here that deal in used office furniture but nothing I can use.

I have looked at new prices. Looks like about $400 for 36x24x78 and $500 for XXL but at least I would get something I could live with. I am still checking Craig's list. I found a couple for around $150 but they were kinda fucked up or putty in color and that wont do. I want black, or maybe Grey.

I sold off my HPS ballast to my nephew. I tried it with the new bulb and it worked fine. Hes just getting started and bought a CMH bulb. I wanted to make sure he got the right ballast. I am going to get a new sun systems xtra sun 400w with lamp cord at the local hydro shop. That way if there is any trouble with a new ballast its on me.

I made hash out of the widow leaf last night. I got a couple grams out of the leaf, I still haven't done the trim. Maybe I will do that tonight.

Its weird not having a grow going here. Around eight when the lights used to go on I look up and think "OK time to check on the girls" But I look over and nothing is happening.

Heres a couple shots of the dream team from sat.















I don't think I got you guys a shot of the widow clones. They are no where near as large as the Haze but they are doing fine.








Looks like we will have a screen up tomorrow. Not quite as long as I figured, we don't have that much cover.
The good thing is my buddy already has it built. We are going to screen the tall silver haze and keep the widows off to the side. ​


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## cruzer101 (May 25, 2009)

Okay, my bud took a couple pics for us of the build. 
Got a couple shelf brackets and painted them flat camo black.








Got a couple sticks and painted them too. 







Then he drilled holes for the brackets.







Checked the lineup of the holes.














He attached the screen to the sticks before bringing them up there. the smaller holes will be opened up as we need to. Didn't realize it was garden fence till he got home.









Now the hard part. You have to realize there is only about 18 of walkway up there.
One slip and down the hill you go.









Looks cool huh?








Put the tall ones through and back under. Here is my favorite shot.







From underneath.







Heres the clones, they are pre flowering already.







Stinky Widow







You can see how they are starting to weave through the screen. 







Painted the top of the screen camo green mixed with black so its stealth too.



. 


​


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## johanrichards (May 27, 2009)

Dream team SCROG is looking real nice. How old are all the plants now?


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## cruzer101 (May 28, 2009)

johanrichards said:


> Dream team SCROG is looking real nice. How old are all the plants now?


The Silver Haze I started early March like March 10th,
Heres a shot of them 







That would make them a little over 11 weeks old now.​


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## cruzer101 (May 30, 2009)

Hey guys,

Ok well, I have been trying to find a new cabinet and I am tired of the bull shit I have been going through with these people on Craigslist. Whats with these people who dont answer there emails or cant post a picture. Fuck em, I buying a new one.

I dont want to pay the price of new (like $600 for what I want) So after a lot of searching on the net I found a place that will ship me a jumbo 48x24x78 Cabinet for $389. I will need to assemble it but I get about twice the growing space.

While I am waiting for the new one I took my old one (36x18x72) and set it outside in the sun. I figure that will warm it up and hatch the eggs but there will be no plants. Then it will get like over real hot in there and cook the bitches.

Well thats my plan we will see if it works.


.​


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## phreakygoat (May 30, 2009)

If you also keep a super high humidity while its in the sun, those bastard eggs will pop. who'd you get the cab through?


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## cruzer101 (May 30, 2009)

Hey Goat,

I got the cab through thenerds.net. They have a special on shipping this weekend. 9.99 for all ground shipments. 
Most places charge about $120 to ship something this big. Like 220 lbs. in two cartons.

Ya think I should get the other cab humid to hatch the eggs huh? You know, your probally right. I didnt think of that. 

Thanks man.

​.


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## phreakygoat (May 30, 2009)

wow, fantastic deal on shipping, makes the whole thing cheaper...
if you have a humidifier or a swamp fan, leave it in the tent for at least 6-9 days. humidity at 80-100% should destroy their society, according to my guru/ buddy. Of course, bleach everything before you use it again. Using both cabs, you are gonna be so set bro, thats awesome.


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## cruzer101 (May 31, 2009)

Yea, I'm excited. 
I really don't have the money to do this but if I don't do it now I wont do it later. 


I cant put a humidifier in the cab outside. No power where its at, besides at 3 feet wide and 6 feet tall a humidifier will soak the walls in an hour. I have tried it. I will put a couple tubs of water in there and spray it down.


This new cab is a monster dude. Heres a pic








My plan is to cut a hole in the floor 6x12 inches and set a floor register in the hole. That will be the intake.
Then cut/mount a couple fans on the floor pointing up. I got a bathroom fan I am mounting in the top for exhaust and that will be vented outside along with the cooltube I made. All stealth. 

Once I get it up and running I will bring in the other cab and use it for veg or mothers. Depends on if I stay with my current system or build an Aero flow system. Heres what I came up with,









I got a few grows under my belt and think I could pull it off now.

First I think I will fill the new cab with a waterfarm 8 pack I have out in the shed. Set up the new CMH and just let them go from clone to flower. Really test this new bulb. OK well now I know the size I am going to get ready.

.​


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## Packet. (May 31, 2009)

nice i cant wait to see your new setup all done.


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## phreakygoat (Jun 1, 2009)

+rep for a fuckin awesome cab plan!


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## cruzer101 (Jun 4, 2009)

Hey,

I got the cabinet today, Wow that was fast, less then a week.
Of course I will need to assemble it but first I need to get the area ready.

Today I built the window box for the exhaust and got a better idea how I am going to run it. 
You see, the flower cabinet is about 4 inches taller then the window opening. I just extended 
the box frame to accommodate it. That old piece of plywood you see through the window was my old idea of stealth. lol

Heres some pics.

Here is the window.







I found a sheet of plywood and cut the sides, Notched them at the top







I have a second cabinet to vent so I cut a notch for one of those space saving dryer vent ducts.







Then the back was two piece, I need to align the cabinet and drill the four inch holes so I figure 
to get them straight I will try and drill it at the same time then move the cabinet to mount the flanges.







Then to make it stealth from the outside view I put the blinds back up and angled them down.







Then used duct tape and weather stripping to seal it up.















OK, got the box done, Here is a shot of the fan I got. It will be mounted inside at top dead center.







It says its 80 cfm but it feels like a whole lot more. Only 4 inches tall. I needed some way to attach 
it so I got a sleeve and a PVC reducer from 4 to 3 inches and a flange from a reflector. 












Next is to cut the hole in the floor for the intake. Thing is, I am not sure where the floor Joice's are. 
I think they are 24" on center.​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 7, 2009)

Got the hole cut today for intake... Messed around with micromedias fireworks too. Figured out how to put four pics in one.





​


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## cutman (Jun 7, 2009)

looks cool cruz , cant wait to see if in full bloom!


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## cutman (Jun 7, 2009)

hey sog is comeing along well.2 weeks into flower. show ya pic soon. hope your cabnet come out great for ya


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## cruzer101 (Jun 9, 2009)

cutman said:


> hey sog is comeing along well.2 weeks into flower. show ya pic soon. hope your cabnet come out great for ya


Thanks cutman, I have been buzy as you will see.

Cool man, I checked your journal and havent seen any new pics yet.


----------



## cruzer101 (Jun 9, 2009)

OK Here is where I am at,


Finished off the intake vent with just a vent cover. I had one laying around.. can you believe that? Weird, I found it in the garage.







Got the vent to the window box cut, lowered the bottom shelf, I used some sticks to brace the new height and cut the vents in the shelves 

Now I know why they said it took two people to assemble. I did it myself though, just took my time. Followed the directions for once. I still had a bunch of screws left over.







I decided just to use more of that strapping tape to support the fan. Its really pretty light. 


Here is what I got for my DIY Cooltube. 








Got the Bake around Pyrex tube on ebay and built this a while back put didn't get pics. So, if you want to build one this is how. You get a socket and some strapping tape. some clamps, attach a 4 inch duct fan to one end and a 4 inch collar to the other. 

So now we need to vent the tube.







I use those space saving dryer duct vents, Intake comes from under the cabinet then through the tube and out the back into the window box. Cant see a thing.

I now have the thermostat wired up and the ventilation done. 

I use cardboard from the packaging to attach the mylar.







OK time for a break.

Is it just me or do I hear "Danger Will Robinson!"

.​


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## cutman (Jun 9, 2009)

sorry tomorrow ill get a full photo shoot on all my ladys,they are pretty.O need to play taps, we had a lady in bloom go down. I dont know what i did because every one gets the same. But what ever it was killed her quick. she was bag weed so but still booo hoo, going to dry it and see, my bet it will taste like crap, but will see. Now that strain of bag looked really good too, i cloned her and her sister is in there and i dont know her leaves are kinda look the same i think. But i stoped all nutes on her a week ago after i flushed her, and she seems to be good, ill give her alittle taste this week end. been feeding at 1500 ppm, going to drop it back for her to 800 and she how she responds. I bought some BIG BUD advanced nutes going to use it on the next feeding very lightly to see how they respond to it.


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## cutman (Jun 9, 2009)

lol danger danger will run run way will roberson. cab looks good hurry up lol


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## brick20 (Jun 9, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> Day 23​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





what did you do with the excess plants that did not get pickes cruzer?


----------



## cruzer101 (Jun 10, 2009)

Hum, That was my first grow in that cabinet. The smaller plants that didn't make the cut. What did I do with them? That was a while ago. I think I tossed them.

Yea, I just went back and checked to see what I did with the plants that didnt makle the cut. I took clones from them and then killed them. I remember ow, I couldnt keep them because I didnt have the space and wanted the light even with the clones.​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 10, 2009)

Well today I was trying to decide what way to go, I had planed on the waterfarm or 4" PVC setup. I couldn't figure out how to drain the tubes properly. I have seen other DIY setups like stink buds but I think the drain is too small. look at the roots earls setup.

So then I got to thinking about all the hydroton I would need, cleaning it out and all that. I really don't want to hassle with that. So, I am building sort of an over sized aero cloner.

I got a rubber maid underbed storage container, some PVC and micro sprinklers. Luckily I have a few pumps to chose from. 180 gal 250 gal 550 gal and a pond pump that puts out more and is smaller but it is too loud.

The 180 gal didn't even get any air. It would work for drippers but not these.

Here is the 250 gph at two feet in height.







Here is the 550 gph. 







The sound the pump makes is about the same. This pump is larger in size but I think this is the way to go.
I can always drop to the smaller pump once I get some roots.

OK going to get out my drill and cut the holes for the pots.


.​


----------



## phreakygoat (Jun 11, 2009)

wow, you really have this shit on lock down. how much experience do you have?
Dude, whats up w/ the d. team?!? I gots to know...


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## lilmafia513 (Jun 12, 2009)

you seem to have been nusy cruzer!!
Everything looks great man. Its getting HOT in the farm these days! Kinda been PO'D about paying and not getting my Elite status. has me not coming on as much!


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## cruzer101 (Jun 12, 2009)

phreakygoat said:


> wow, you really have this shit on lock down. how much experience do you have?
> Dude, whats up w/ the d. team?!? I gots to know...


Hey Goat,

I have been growing indoors for about a year and a half. I think six harvests. I read a lot.
But really I am just learning as I go. This will be my first attempt at Aeroponics 

Update on D team commin up.​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 12, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> you seem to have been nusy cruzer!!
> Everything looks great man. Its getting HOT in the farm these days! Kinda been PO'D about paying and not getting my Elite status. has me not coming on as much!


Hay man, Hot on the farm eh? It's been around 78 degrees here.
Yea I have been buzy, This is fun though.

I dont get it this elite status thing. I here you dont see the large green Elite in some new skins. Try switching your style back to blazin07 maybe thats it. Was it a donation for the new server or a new subscription?
Get a hold of an admin and ask them about it. Shouldnt stop you from comming on as much. 
Good to see ya.

Oh yea, dream team. Gotta load up some pics.​


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## cutman (Jun 12, 2009)

Hey Cruz dude this crystal is looking good. Rest is to but, dam those little crystal all over yumm yumm.all leaves even the water leaves closest to the bud are full. coool can wait to try it out. Think im going to do another s.o.g grow with it. Want to see 20 smaller plants with these buds on it. NO more bag weed. Thats a waist of time. Compaired to the crystal. blue berry looks good to, but leaves are curling down going to flush her tomorrow.


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## cruzer101 (Jun 12, 2009)

Dream Team update, I have been having trouble connecting so I am just gonna try and post the pics quick

Heres the haze under the screen

























and the widow.






​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 12, 2009)

Cool, it worked. I hate it when I am in the middle of the post and I get dropped or lose connection somehow.

That happen to anyone else?

.​


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## brick20 (Jun 13, 2009)

cruzer101 said:


> cool, it worked. I hate it when i am in the middle of the post and i get dropped or lose connection somehow.
> 
> That happen to anyone else?
> 
> .​


my laptop overheats and shuts off for 15mins sometimes when im posting


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## bighitter (Jun 13, 2009)

yeah it happens to me and i accidentally double post


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## cruzer101 (Jun 13, 2009)

Yea, well maybe these new servers will help. I hear they are going on line any day now. Actually it seems faster today.​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 13, 2009)

Ok, here we go. I am going to try aeroponics now. I am tired of dealing with hydroton. I havent tried it in the past because I dont want to haul all that dam water but I think I figured out a way I can do it without using a large res.

First I start with a rubbermaid under the bed storage container.























I cut holes for 2 inch net pots







This way I can open one side at a time.







Sorry Pic is kinda bulry, but I used 1/2 in pvc to make the frame and I got eight full spray sprinlkers on the center tubes. I will probally add more to the out side but I am going to start with this. 







I put it in with the jets pointing down.
















The jets are one inch away from eight of the pots. the two center pots will be ok after I get a few roots. I may need to move them around a bit when they are small.















Then put the fill line through the hole.















Here is a shot from inside.







Here is the new Cycle timer I got today. $100 shipped to my door. Got here fast too. 







Tomorrow I will drill holes for the two drains. I sketched out my plan in Microsoft paint.









I am going to try this with a five gallon res. I know it should be three times that size but I carry the bottles.
If I keep an eye on it and I usually do, hopefully I will be able to keep it under 10 gal a week.
Where I think I am going to have a problem is with temptature of the water. From what I have read 65° is ideal.
Even with the intake right by the res I think I am going to be in the 70's

Man I hope this works.

.
​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 14, 2009)

OK I got the drain supply's Two bathroom sink drains. they are 1 1/4 size.
The deal is there is no tubbing or elbows I could find that would work with them. But I found a reducer fitting that attachés 1 1/2 PVC to 1 1/4 drain.







see the one on the left?







Thats the key. Once I get to 1 1/2 there is all kinds of fittings. OK, time to get to work.​


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## areyoukind (Jun 14, 2009)

you know your shit bro!


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## cruzer101 (Jun 14, 2009)

areyoukind said:


> you know your shit bro!


Thanks man, I see your from Cali too. Cool. You know, I keep saying I'm just learning but I guess I do know my shit. lol

Thanks to everyone here.​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 14, 2009)

OK First thing is to cut the rear wheels off. By leaving the front ones on it will tilt it back for better drainage.





















Cut the holes for the drains.








Lined it up and cut the hole in the shelf too










The drains I got are to be installed in a thicker material like a sink maybe?
Anyway the rubber washer will have to be messed with. I used my dremel tool to grind the rubber to get them to fit. 
(The one on the left is done.)









Got some silicon for the lip and got the drains installed in the tub and cut the holes in the shelf. 
Wrapped the tub with duct tape and set it in.







Next I got some cardboard left over from the cabinet shipment and use it to help block the light. 
I cut it to fit up under the lip at the top. 










Then got under there and hooked it up. Well all except the last section. 








I tested it before mounting and there were no leaks. so far so good. the right side is slightly higher then the left for better drainage. I glued the joints between the extenders but I didn't glue the PVC inside the tub because it didn't leak and if it does it is inside anyway. besides I can twist the center tubes and angle the spray this way.

OK done for today.

.​


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## lilmafia513 (Jun 15, 2009)

No way!....Thats so funny...
I seriously stood in Lowes one day for an hour looking at those underbed bins trying to think of ways to make a cloner.

THANK YOU CRUZER!!! Love the idea!


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## cruzer101 (Jun 15, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> No way!....Thats so funny...
> I seriously stood in Lowes one day for an hour looking at those underbed bins trying to think of ways to make a cloner.
> 
> THANK YOU CRUZER!!! Love the idea!


Ha,

No Problem man. I cant guarantee it will work but I think it will. Make sure you build the PVC frame so it wedges at the top. The sides of the tubs are tapered so it will stay there. Also I think it would be better not to glue the PVC inside the tub. I already had to twist one pipe so water would hit a net pot. After roots grow I will twist it back.

Working on a res today, I almost got it finished.
​.


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## cruzer101 (Jun 15, 2009)

Heres what I got done today,

First I covered the rest of the tub so no light gets in. I used this spray glue to attach the mylar.













and covered the front with more cardboard.







This will be the timer rack









OK now the res.
I have a water farm eight pack I am not using right now. In the set is what they call a controller. I have 
already modified the 8 pack so there were extra holes already drilled in it. I was going to try and plug them up but instead I took advantage of the holes.

This will be the front, the blue tube is my water level monitor/drain







Heres the opposite side. those lower holes were already there so I connected them and inside added a power head so this will mix the water.








here is inside








You see the air stone is under where the water comes back into the res. between the wall and the main pump. 

Here is a better shot.








the power head pumps the water from the other side of the res, out and back through the wall, the water shoots through the bubbles and in the pump.

Then when its time for a res change I twist the water indicator and drain the res.








gets most of it









I was thinking maybe I could chill that line outside the res. I looked at chillers. they are kinda of expensive and draw too much power for me. Like 280 watts. I gotta think of some other way to cool the water and this just may be a start. I have one of those small coolers you plug into your cigarette lighter and keeps food cold without ice. Maybe I can get a converter and poke some holes? I wonder if that would work. You think someone would have thought of it already.

OK, well tomorrow the electrical.

.​


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## potpimp (Jun 16, 2009)

Dang Cruiser, that's a great looking setup you have there!! Very nice work my friend.


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## cruzer101 (Jun 16, 2009)

Hey Pimp,

Good to see ya man. Last I remember you were moving or something. Hope things are good.
Thanks for the complement on the setup. It isn't exactly a stinkbud 9000 but hopefully it will do.

I couldn't figure out how to do it with the 4 inch PVC on a shelf. It was the draining part I couldn't 
figure out how to get the way I wanted. I'm afraid the drain stinkbud came up with would clog. 
I liked Earls design but that requires a lot of water.

His design is probably the best way to go but I am going to try this. You know me, I will probably tear 
the whole fucking thing out and re build after the first flower. Depends on how much water I use.

Stick around my friend, This my first areoponics grow and will need some pointers.

Thanks for dropping by.​


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## ryan420 (Jun 16, 2009)

for your 300w HPS flower SCOG Cabinet, What are those cube things you started ur plants in? whats it called and where could i get them? would it be ok for seeds to start in? If you could help me out, that would be great, I'm a newb grower.


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## cruzer101 (Jun 16, 2009)

ryan420 said:


> for your 300w HPS flower SCOG Cabinet, What are those cube things you started ur plants in? whats it called and where could i get them? would it be ok for seeds to start in? If you could help me out, that would be great, I'm a newb grower.


Hi Ryan,

I have tried a few things to start plants in and in my opinion Rapid Rooters are the best. Then when I see roots ( within a week) I put them in the rockwool cubes. makes it very easy to move them around.

I have learned a lot here at rollitup and I am happy to help out.
There is a FAQ section here you can check out. They are working on that though.
I put together a website and on the left is a section "What I have learned" the info is just what I observed but I go through germ/clone there.

Here is a link http://hydrobuds.net

Good luck man.

I think outbound links are ok here. Admin, please advise.

.​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 16, 2009)

Hi people,

I got the electrical done today, I wired up the tube with new cord so it will go into my new ballast. Oh I forgot to mention I got a new Hydro farm ballast today. My old setup was hardwired so I needed to install the hydro farm lamp cord. I got a new 15 foot heavy duty cord for the duct fan too. It really didn't need it but I wanted the weight the same on both sides to keep the light level. I hooked it all up to timers and stuff. i still need to clean it up. hydro system went through a 4 hour test run, No leaks. Weird thing though, the new ceramic metal halide bulb felt cooler when I tested it in the old cab. I ran the lights with the fans and it only went up 3° though. That's much better then before. i was hitting 10 to 15° hotter then room temp with HPS and the old fans. ​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 17, 2009)

Duh, I should have compared it with outside temps. I did that test last night.
So, I did it again today. It is 70 outside and temps were 79° thats more accurate.

However I am getting more lumen's than before. The meter I bought used on ebay when I was testing LED lighting. It only goes up to 2000 foot candles or lumen's. At 19 inches away before I got about 1200 lm. now at 20 inches I get 1800. Go figure, I guess the old bulb I had was pretty much shot.










I have eight sprinklers in there now. I got what was available, I will replace them with the green jets when I can. Maybe add more to the outside tubes too.









Here is the new ballast, It is twice as tall as I thought it would be. oops.
















For a reflector I took one of those oven liners I had and cut it. Then formed it around the top of the tube and clipped on the wings I had with strapping tape. Here is what we got so far.








So now I have 48" by 24" flower area compared to 36" by 18" I will be using the same amount of power, the 400 watts. I realize I will have about 6 inches on both ends that will be shy a bit the meter measured 1300 so I think will add some side lighting, maybe a couple of cfl's or a of par 30 red led spotlights on each side. I dont know if the LED will make much difference, I can always just screw in a different bulb.


.​


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## cutman (Jun 18, 2009)

what is going to be the hight on that flower room? and how tall will you start flower 2 week veg or more? you going to veg then flower all in one cabent? looks great cruz!


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## cruzer101 (Jun 19, 2009)

cutman said:


> what is going to be the hight on that flower room? and how tall will you start flower 2 week veg or more? you going to veg then flower all in one cabent? looks great cruz!


Hey Cutman,

Thanks man.

Well, the cabinet is 78 inches tall I have 55 inches to flower. Less the light and tub figure about 40 inches. I think I will screen them at 12 inches. By going four feet wide and 2 feet deep I have just about doubled my flower area.

I set this up with a ceramic metal halide bulb that just came out. Its made by Phillips and covers the full spectrum so I can veg and flower with the same light. 

The first time around I am starting from seed in the system. I wont need all that power at fist so I will use the veg light out of the old cab. Its a Sunblaze T5. It has four 24" tubes. I also have some cfls for the sides.

I figure two weeks of that then I remove it and fire up the 400w, veg for two more weeks and flower for eight. I will take a couple cuttings and grow mothers in the smaller cabinet while they flower. Couple weeks before harvest I strip the mothers for clones and toss them. I made a couple small bubble cloners with the same size net pots. 

Harvest and plug in the new clones. easy, no muss no fuss.
I'm sure it will take me a couple grows to get the hang of areoponics but from the journals I have read I think it is the best way to go.

Once this is up and running I hope to yield eight OZ every two months.
This first grow is going to be under the worst conditions possible mid summer like this. So if I get it to work the first time the rest will be a breeze.

How are those girls doing outside? My Widow has flowers already.


.
​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 19, 2009)

Outdoor scrog

Plants are doing great. I only wish my hydro looked as good.














They all have reached the screen now







The Widow







The Widows already have pre flowers







We tossed the Apollo, 
Man that thing was twisted. It was real small compared to the others. We were afraid it would herm so it is gone.
I guess it lost something in its genetics. It was a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a plant I grew from seed. I think I got enough of that now. lol

.​


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## oldmandroman (Jun 19, 2009)

check outt my thread leave coment men and my bud i lonely


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## cutman (Jun 19, 2009)

lades look good there . i didnt net mine just letting them go, that one with 1s and 3 leaves is still going never pulled it. just going to see what happens. this thing is weird wounder if its going to bud, dont know but one things for sure im going to learn from it. 
She almost 6' tall. the blue berry and the crystal are budding, is that naturel at this time of summer? being outside light what it is you know. harvest 2 more yesterday. A crystal and a bag, there hanging. LOL i half to go gets some more jars bummer huh lol. Others that harvested 3 weeks are still in curing, smoke a piece last night and tasted ok not great, burping a couple times a day, but now its ever 2 days, its smokes easy and not harsh, so its working good. going to harvest blue berry and another bag nexts week.
So from seed your going to go 4 week to flower basicly, and your flower hight is about 40 TO 44" right.


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## phreakygoat (Jun 19, 2009)

GODDAM those are tall ladies... and thanks for all the setup pics, I plan to download them and save them for the rainy day when I have any money to buy eqt. ever get rid of those mites in the other tent?


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## tom__420 (Jun 19, 2009)

Box looks killer dude, really well put together. Are you just using a duct booster fan on the cool tube?


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## cruzer101 (Jun 19, 2009)

tom__420 said:


> Box looks killer dude, really well put together. Are you just using a duct booster fan on the cool tube?


Yep, I got it pointing away from the tube though. I cut the fan housing to short on the fan side. If I were to do it again I would blow across the light. Those 4" duct boosters fan pump like 110 cfm.​


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## tom__420 (Jun 19, 2009)

Yeah I have the same 4 inch fan cooling my veg box. They put out a lot of air for the price, works great


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## cruzer101 (Jun 19, 2009)

cutman said:


> lades look good there . i didnt net mine just letting them go, that one with 1s and 3 leaves is still going never pulled it. just going to see what happens. this thing is weird wounder if its going to bud, dont know but one things for sure im going to learn from it.
> She almost 6' tall. the blue berry and the crystal are budding, is that naturel at this time of summer? being outside light what it is you know. harvest 2 more yesterday. A crystal and a bag, there hanging. LOL i half to go gets some more jars bummer huh lol. Others that harvested 3 weeks are still in curing, smoke a piece last night and tasted ok not great, burping a couple times a day, but now its ever 2 days, its smokes easy and not harsh, so its working good. going to harvest blue berry and another bag nexts week.
> So from seed your going to go 4 week to flower basicly, and your flower hight is about 40 TO 44" right.


Always good to keep record so you can compare on the next grow and learn. Yes My Outdoor plants are budding too. Kinda early this year. Oh poor baby, you need more jars. Ha ha ha. Don't ya love it?
I bet you love the blue Berry. I haven't grow it but I hear it is Great smoke, just a little shy on bud size though. Let me know how it works out. So Yea basically, from seed 4 weeks then flower. Thats the plan, I haven't grown areoponics before. I hear they veg 30% faster. So we will see. The total height is 44" yes, but they can grow up the sides another 4 or five inches. If I get them that tall I can always take off the reflectors. 
​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 20, 2009)

phreakygoat said:


> GODDAM those are tall ladies... and thanks for all the setup pics, I plan to download them and save them for the rainy day when I have any money to buy eqt. ever get rid of those mites in the other tent?


Hey Goat,

Yea them bitches have LEGS! If we didn't screen them they would be over 6 feet and we still got a couple months. I think they will over fill the screen and we may have to tie down the big cola's.. I cant wait.

Yea the fucking mites? The old cabinet is sitting out in the sun now.
I got a bucket of water in it. I am trying to hatch the bastards and they will have nothing to survive on and die!

Then maybe I will bring it in and put two mothers on the bottom in dirt and put the cutting on the upper shelf in bubbler's. I will use the same 2 inch net post so I can just plug them in the flower box when ready.

thats the plan.
​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 20, 2009)

tom__420 said:


> Yeah I have the same 4 inch fan cooling my veg box. They put out a lot of air for the price, works great


They sure do. Hey I checked out your journal, Nice. 

Those were some dark leaves on that #3 plant. 72 grams wet is what you got with a 250w eh? Not bad. I was thinking of going with a 250w set up. That and LEDs

I see you bubble water in your cloner for humidity I tried that but I think they got too wet, I spray the inside of the dome with water once a day. Works for me. 

Anyway thanks for the complement on the cabinet, I hope I am not going to far here trying areoponics. My lady, She tells me I tend to over do things.

Like I made this today to make lables for my bud jars







LOL I think she just dosent like the image.

edit: Now I know she dont like the image.​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 21, 2009)

I know you guys wanna see green but I am almost there,

I let the system go for a couple days and I kept seeing water on the lower shelf. I pulled it out and set it on the table and ran it no leaks but after a while I had water. I finally figured it out. The res was sweating on the bottom. Building up condensation and lt seeped out the bottom edge.







Well I fixed that by razing the res so air could flow under it. so far so good. I got the side lighting in, didn't use the LED I used CFL's



Now it is time for the last test. I have my growing medium, Rapid rooter cubes set in the net pots. They are not getting direct spray, I want to see if the humidity alone will keep them damp enough.







They were a little small so I cut some foam to hold them in at first.
I got some neoprene collars for when I get some clones but this will be starting from seed this first grow. 








and plug them in.










Got all the timers installed where I can get to them this time.








I got the 400w and the duct fan on the hydro farm timer, the CFL's, CO2 and res mixer pump on the other. I still have to refill the CO2 but I wont need it for a while yet.

The next thing I am tweaking on in a diy chiller to keep the water cold in the res this summer. Most chillers I have found have been larger then I need so this is what I have in mind.







Portable cooler. I got this on ebay for $30 Its 12v DC says it will keep temps 40° lower then ambient temps. I found a 5.8 amp DC converter for $15 shipped. I read that to figure wattage you multiply amps by volts. That means this will only use 60 watts. I can use it with the pump that circulates the res water. I think I should fill the cooler with water or something to conduct better than air, any ideas?

​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 22, 2009)

OK, Pretty much done, 
I have almost doubled my space, cut the noise in half, (to about the sound of a fridge) eliminated hydroton and Rockwool.
With the window box my neighbor only sees the blinds. I have a fresh supply of air from under the house where I dont think those spider mites would be and an 80 CFM exhaust directly above supplying the underside of the leaf with fresh air, 110 CFM Duct fan for the light. I have CO2 supplement I will run Once they hit the screen. A new Ceramic Metal Halide 400w light and new Hydrofarm Ballast. Four CFL's and the Custom Aerotub Hydroponic system.

Oh, and everything is grounded this time.

Yahoo!
Lets Grow!

Couple days ago I checked out those Widow buds from the last grow, found the one that had a few seeds.







I had five that looked good but I soaked them all overnight. next day tapped them and six sank. 








I put them all in a paper towel kept them warm and in two days pop! We got five.









I split the rooter cube and put them in with the root tip pointing down.

>







In one empty cube I placed the temp probe. that registers the out temp on the thermometer











Got out the seedling heat map and plugged it into the second daytime timer I have the CFL's and res circulating pump on.
I actually run that at night to keep them warm.










I want the root zone between 80 and 84° and upper temp about 75°







I don't have a thermostat for the heat map, too cheap I guess. I use sticks under the pan to raise it 







Im going to hand water them while they are young. 
By putting them in the tray I can control moisture better.

These are the seeds that didn'tt pop right away. 








I put water on them and will give them a couple more days.
But if they dont pop I have backup.


I Have these feminized Train wreck from my last order.










I also have five Mazar seeds that would need to be sexed.
So either way this first crop will have females and flower out. Then I will plug in there clones for a second round.

Once I get the hang of this system, I will get some awesome genetics and grow a mother or two.





.​


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## cutman (Jun 22, 2009)

about dam time cant wait to see some green. my green is lookin pretty, will post some new pics soon,lots of little 4 week flowers, it getting nasty hot here put a bigger fan up under the the vent in the ceiling, in hope to get more heat out inside barn, Its heating up to 95, going to put a bigger ac unit in there 8000btu just not enough. but going to leave it so if needed i can use both units. after this last grow im going to gut the barn and insolate the walls and ceiling and put it all back. That should it, keep nice and cool in their. for my airponics set up. just like yours but on a little bigger scale,lol dirt got to go, heat will not be a problem after i fix the barn better. water heat im going to run the water line into a little frig to cool it then to the tub. and i can keep my beer out there for when i get dry mouth lol. should work though.


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## cruzer101 (Jun 22, 2009)

cutman said:


> about dam time cant wait to see some green.


No shit man, I just had to get rid of those dam mites.

That and that other cab was my first shot at building one and I learned how to do it right. So now the building is done and I have what I want. Dam, if I had a barn I would go nuts. It would be a friggin jungle and I would probably not only have a six pack out there but a cot and live in it.
Look forward to the pics. I will check your journal now.​


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## cutman (Jun 23, 2009)

added a couple of extra pic of barn and out side ladys. hey should i trim that big one up a ways. or just let her go. shes 6 foot now and 4 foot around. thats the one with 1 and 3 leaves but at all nodes has hairs no balls. and see my little bud on that blue cheese, the other is a crystal and blue berry. hey on the inside the blue berry looks done, but flowers arnt very big. not like the other that is. soon as this is done im going to make a jungle with your help. 
sorry wont post any more pics on your thread just thought you might want to see the barn


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## cruzer101 (Jun 23, 2009)

Cool Man,

I don't mind you posting attachments here, saves me a trip to your journal. lol. But I gotta tell ya, when you said barn I pictured something a little bigger. Actually though, that size would be much easier to work with.

I don't know how much you want to grow or what available space you have outside but what I would consider is first get a calender, figure your outdoor months and available space. South western exposure is best. 
I would try and get a patch about 6 feet deep by as wide as you can go.

Turn the soil over, go down over a foot, add mulch, layout PVC to water with. Somewhere along the line add a two way valve. what you can use this for is to add nutrients when you want to. just run a pipe to a tub and water with a pump leaving the tap off. Plant three plants deep (every 2 feet.) Then drive stakes all around it and put up a fence to keep the deer out.

Make a veg room where you grow mothers indoors out of your best genetics. Like three plants and grow them a 5 gallon bucket in soil. Grow them about three feet tall, keep topping them, top the side branches too.
As you trim your mothers clone the trim and that grow indoors in the off season. Each mother will give you like 30 clones. 

Come March or April harvest your clones for outside. The mothers will grow back in a month. Then put them outside too and start again. 

In November turn the barn into a drying room and fill it up. 

Dude, you can have a truckload every Christmas plus a few small harvests during the year to keep you busy.​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 23, 2009)

White widow 2 days old.







I checked the other seeds and found one that sprouted so I put it in the cube. 
Now we got six. They are late, just like women.

Come on baby, I need one more from this batch.

I started the Train wreck last night, 
In a couple hours all five dropped to the bottom of the shot glass so they are 
in towels now.

I figure since a female lightly hemmed and pollinated itself or another female I got female seeds. 
So, I decided against the Mazar and went with the fem train wreck.







Temps are rising...​


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## helpmegrow09 (Jun 24, 2009)

my plant is 4 wks old and seems to be turning brown at the end ov the odd leaf s but look healthy so dontunderstand really couple of pics to have a loot at and its a outdoor weed plant grown in a hot green house


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## cutman (Jun 25, 2009)

hey i put a new 12000 btu ac unit in and bamm nice and cool was 88-89 now 2 hours later 78.9 inside. And its hotter than shit out side!!!. but have both ac units running so. going to go turn the smaller one off and see in a hour what it is. hopefully its going to be the same if not then ill run both. But hey no more heat stress. it was running 96-98 in there before the new ac.


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## cruzer101 (Jun 25, 2009)

Wow, 10 degrees in a grow room is big man. Coooooool
Keep an eye on you humidity, when your flowering shouldn't be no prob but if your only vegging it could drop.

Good move on the AC.

.​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 25, 2009)

helpmegrow09 said:


> my plant is 4 wks old and seems to be turning brown at the end ov the odd leaf s but look healthy so dontunderstand really couple of pics to have a loot at and its a outdoor weed plant grown in a hot green house


Hi,

Welcome to my grow journal. any questions you may have about my grow I would be happy to answer. 
I see you are new here. Let me point you in the right direction. This is where you should post your questions.

https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/


If you want my advice, I suggest you read up here a bit.

https://www.rollitup.org/view.php?pg=faq


Just from what I see, I think you should get more air to your plants. cut holes on the sides of your greenhouse or remove them. While you are doing that. Get some fresh water, about 3 gallons of it and slowly water your plant until all the water is gone. Yes it will drip out the bottom.

That will flush out the nutrients. Wait several days before watering again.
When you are at the FAQ section, look up PH.

Thanks for stopping by.


​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 26, 2009)

I Started the Train Wreck couple nights ago. Here they are at 48 hours. Fast huh.







All five on top are them. The lower are the widow. Couple more days and I toss them.


So I put them in cubes last night about 1/4 down from the hole and covered the hole.








I thought it was time for more light.
I figured why run 400w from 3 feet away when I got the T5 HO I can run close at 100w







24 Hours later...














I don't think they will have any trouble catching up with there sisters.
​


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## potpimp (Jun 26, 2009)

Man that is one of THE sweetest looking setup's I've ever seen in my life. Props to you my man!


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## cruzer101 (Jun 27, 2009)

Thanks man, I put a lot of thought into it. Lets hope it produces well.

This is my first shot at aeroponics and summer is here.

I am still working on cooling the water in the res. My first idea was the portable cooler but it just wont do it. I was able to get about an 18 degree difference between the two but running the water through it only cooled the res a couple degrees and I am going to need more than that.

I searched the net and found a couple DIY chillers. Found one where a guy basically gut a small refer and use the cooling unit. Put it right inside the res, pump water over it to cool. 

So today I got on Craig's list and found a 1.7 cu ft refer for $55 I went and got it but I am going to need a new blade to cut the box. Maybe I can just grind it. I am going to tackle that this weekend.

Thanks for droping in Pimp.

.​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 28, 2009)

OK Here are the results of my DIY water chiller.

As you know I tried the portable cooler. Low wattage thermal electric cooler.







I ran seven loops of tube inside and back to the res. 







I realize this is with no insulation and I probably could get better hose but I wanted to see what it would do. 
It got maybe 2 degrees cooler.

After I got the new small refer home I realized it was different then the DIY I had read. 
The evaporator or grid was not on the back. I figured it was just inside the back panel.

I disconnected the thermostat 







Then used my disk grinder to cut because I didn't have a cutting blade.







Then basically peeled back the case to find the coils were ran around the fridge. 
(looks blue because I am under a blue canopy)







I looked at it and thought "how the hell am I going to get this to work" I went this far, Might as well finish.







After cutting a hole for the cooling unit I slid everything out the front and left the system intact.







The lost my shade so I took a break until sundown. It was 97 degrees.

Then I took the res and set it inside the system and carefully bent the cooling tray inside.
It was still about 93 degrees outside but no direct sun.







Here is the back







I let it run with the thermostat set in the middle for about an hour.

It cooled about 4 degrees. The thermostat was under water and I didn't know if that made any difference but 
I drained about a gallon of water so it set in the air. Then I realized I didn't have anything to compare it to so I 
got a home depot bucket and filled it with water too. I set a thermometer it that as well. 
I turned the thermostat all the way up, kept the circulating pump on and left them until noon today.

Todays outside temps are 101 degrees. 
Here is the uncovered bucket of water temp 84 degrees









I really didn't think this was going to work, well I looked inside,








Then checked the temp. 58 degrees.









AWESOME! 26 degrees cooler without any insulation! 
I am circulating the res with a small 180 gpm pump.

Now that is worth working with. Now I need to figure out out to insulate it. 
I am thinking about sandwiching the coils between Styrofoam and venting the compressor somehow in the cabinet.
It is a sealed system so I cant extend the tube to the cooling unit and set it outside the cabinet. Unless I cut a 4x8 inch 
hole in the side of the cabinet to fit the cooling unit through and then it is not very stealth.

But for those of you who have a grow room this will work well. 
My guess would be in say a 10x10 room you may see a 5 degree increase in ambient temps. 
But in my 2x4 cabinet with 2 foot height in the bottom I am afraid It will be more like 15 to 20 degrees.

I guess there is only one way to find out...




.
​


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## tom__420 (Jun 28, 2009)

Awesome DIY man, you are obviously very crafty


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## cutman (Jun 28, 2009)

i new that would work thats what i was going to do when i get set up. and yes i can see how it would work for me but the comperser put off heat, and in a small place say your cabnet it might be to much heat to get out. being all the other things that put off heat, thats 1 more thing that heats up, you know what i mean. BUt the water heating problem is fixed lol


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## phreakygoat (Jun 28, 2009)

wow you went above and beyond on this one. are you making concurrent "How To" threads, cause this shit all belongs in the DIY portion of the FAQ.


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## cruzer101 (Jun 29, 2009)

Thanks guys,

I think its cause I am out of work and got nothing else to do but enjoy my harvests, collect unemployment and think about growing. There are no jobs out there right now so I might as well enjoy the summer and tweak on the cab. 

Not to bad really. But the problem is not solved. That thing puts out way too much heat to put in the flower cabinet. I think I got it though. 

I am going to bleach out the old cab and set it next to it. The lower shelf will house the res, the cooler and the ballast. I will just plumb it through the back of the cabinets. The old cabinet is only 18" deep this one is 24 plus I added two inches with the window box so i got 2 inches to turn a 1 1/4 PVC pipe. Sounds do able. Besides there is a vent hole cut already in the side of the window box. for "future applications" 

In the Summer I just vent it out, In the winter I use the upper shelf for clones and starting seedlings. I will just be doing it a little sooner then i thought, and I have to get rid of a recliner.

Anybody looking for a "like new" recliner?

Well thats the new plan. If I can just bend those coils enough I think it will work.

Lets see what happens tomorrow.

.​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 29, 2009)

Forgot pics of the kids.





















They are all caught up.
.​


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## cutman (Jun 29, 2009)

figured that might be a prob.. but theres no prob.. for a stepper and your doing a great job keep it up, MR MCGIVER, lol


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## cruzer101 (Jun 29, 2009)

cutman said:


> figured that might be a prob.. but theres no prob.. for a stepper and your doing a great job keep it up, MR MCGIVER, lol


Ha! That was my favorite show back in the day. I loved the things he came up with. I tried a few and they worked!

Anyway, went to Orchard today and got fittings to extend the plumbing.

I also got a package Black Flag foggers for the old cab. I got the deadliest shit I could find. It said not to use in room 5x5 or smaller without the door open so I figure thats what I will do, let it go in the yard a couple times with the doors cracked open. This heat is making me lazy.

.​


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## cruzer101 (Jun 29, 2009)

I took a short video, Lets see if this works

[youtube]E5WKN3BErew&hl[/youtube]


Cool it works,

I think I may have a problem with them though. 
See how much they are stretching?


edit:
Just in case someone sees this and wants to post there own it really not that hard. 
If you can take a video and upload it to youtube all you need is the video number in the script.

Its the green type.

Then you put it between forum tags
Example, Once uploaded you see the embed code. Looks like this:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/*FQb-a-ogKJE&hl=en&fs*=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FQb-a-ogKJE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Then you make the link: cut and paste the green letters between the tags

[youtube..] *FQb-a-ogKJE&hl*[/youtube...]
^^with no dots or spaces.. 

Post that last line by itself and bingo! You got a video.

( I found this here on another post.)
.​


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## tom__420 (Jun 29, 2009)

Sweet video man


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## cruzer101 (Jun 29, 2009)

Thanks man, I figured out how to do it a while ago but forgot.

Well, Today I bombed the cab with the raid.








Man, That thing has so many holes its like swiss cheese. I removed two shelves, cut 
five 4 in holes and two one inch holes in the back. Cut four one inch holes in the shelves, 
a 2x8 in hole and a large 16x20 hole in the bottom shelf and a small 2x4 in hole in the top. 
13 holes and 2 shelves. LOL

I got three in the pack. I got one on the lower shelf and one on the upper shelf.








Here she is smokin away...







I closed the doors when I saw the smoke fading out. I figure I will 
wipe it down with water and bleach in a couple hours.

That ought to kill them​.


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## cruzer101 (Jun 30, 2009)

Hi, The girls are for the most part doing fine. 
We feed every other watering. Now its getting hot we water every other day. Fox farm nutes.














All the haze has passed the screen. We got some clips so no more weaving. 
The widow sure is getting tall. I didn't think it would get this tall.










The short Widow on the left has spider mites. 
Being so close to all that other growth we have lots of insects. 
I hope mother nature takes care of them. 

.​


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## tom__420 (Jun 30, 2009)

Outdoor plants look super healthy dude, great job. How did the fogger and wiping down go?


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## cruzer101 (Jun 30, 2009)

Well I think I am ready to install, I shot off all three foggers and wiped it down today.
Looks like I will have just enough space to put the res in there with the compressor and coils. I went to home depot today and picked up a tube bender just in case.

Hows your grow going?
​.


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## tom__420 (Jun 30, 2009)

Pretty awesome actually. I just installed a dryer duct louver and attached some ducting to it that is connected to my window A/C. Dropped temps from 82F to 76F and it is totally light proof. Now I can have a constant temp and I won't have to blast my a/c as much. I am a happy man 
Glad to hear that you have the pest problem under control now. I can't wait to see your plants get huge


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## cruzer101 (Jun 30, 2009)

Ha, you and me both. I am getting a piece of the outdoor grow but it just isn't the same. I hope I will be able to get this first grow off the ground with out too many problems. Then I can take it from there. My goal is eight oz.

AC huh? I thought about channeling air in there from an AC unit but never could figure out a way without ducting showing. I had to try going through the floor. That by the way works real good. The temp in the cab is constantly 6 or 7 degrees less then the room temp. About 10 degrees less then outside. Go figure.

By the way I just wanted to say, I had no idea a 250w could do what you did with it.

Good Job my friend.
​.​


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## tom__420 (Jun 30, 2009)

Thanks a lot man, it means a lot coming from you  Luckily my window a/c is really close to the box so there is only about an inch and a half of duct showing. I'm not too worried about it though because it is behind a locked door in the spare bedroom


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## D port Growth (Jun 30, 2009)

i just read all 40 pages and smoked about 5 bowls. Man. ur the shit its like u get a idea and u run with it learn what went wrong and fix it. you are a amazing grower nontheless. but i think spider mites have it out for u lol u pissed them off or somthing but all is lookin great keep up ur experements and keep growing cause its what u were born to. subscribed. and give ur ladies my best


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## cruzer101 (Jul 1, 2009)

Hey Growth,

Pull up a chair. Yea this thing works great for recording things. My memory isn't what it used to be and I just come back to it when I forget. I guess that what good genetics will do for you.

Thanks for the compliment, please feel free to make any more comments or suggestions especially if they are like that one. 

"If at first you dont succeed fuck the world and smoke some weed" 

Ha! Thats how I figure shit out! 

Welcome Bud.


Oh yea, I am almost there. Got some holes cut and the plumbing in. 
Drain works fine but I got a leak on the fill line.







Looks like it will all fit. The lower shelf is just the right height and I got like 4 inches to spare in width. 
I figure I can make like a garage with styrofoam and enclose the coils. 

.​


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## cruzer101 (Jul 4, 2009)

OK got it done.

There is 4 layers of 1/2 with foil back insulation and an extra 1 inch in the center separating 
the coils and the res. One layer of 1/2 in goes up to the bottom of the upper shelf to 
divide the two areas.







I wrapped the res in that foil bubble insulation. For now I will let it vent up. I plan on venting 
the lower section next to the compressor and using the shelf above as a cloning area. 
The top is for veg or mothers. I not sure yet.








After the first 12 hours of testing at the max I had the res at 42 degrees. space around the res was 69 degees. 
The right section with the coils was 96 degrees. This was with an room temp of 85°







Yep thats cold enough alright. Now I turned the thermostat down and I am running the pumps. 







The water is distilled. Thats five gallons. I added 2 more but thats the max for this res.

So here is what I got. 








Once it is running I think I will have two mothers in the upper right cabinet in hydroton, clones lower 
right in bubbler, flower upper left aeroponic and drying rack lower left. 








Turns out, it is quieter then I thought. I am happy with it.
Now lets see what I can do with it.

.​


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## cutman (Jul 4, 2009)

looking good lets fire it up and see some green in there bud


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## cruzer101 (Jul 4, 2009)

cutman said:


> looking good lets fire it up and see some green in there bud


You got it bud, The day has come.​


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## cruzer101 (Jul 5, 2009)

Hey guys, I am moving this Journal. I figure I made a lot of changes from when I started and It just isnt titled right.

Please follow along here.
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/210479-dual-areoponic-cabinet-ceramic-metal.html

So to finish up this journal I want to give you a summary of the actual smoke i got from these grows and close this thread.

Apollo 1st Grow: Wispy buds, kinda harsh smoke, mostly body stone, I can taste nutrients. Decent yield approx 2.5 oz 

Apollo 2nd Grow: Tight buds, expands but not harsh, more body stone, very light nutrient taste. Better yield. Approx 3.5 oz

(These were grown together)
Apollo 3rd Grow: regular buds, smooth smoke, more head high, no nutrient taste.
Widow 1st Grow: regular buds, smooth smoke, Body stone at first then head high, no nutrient taste. Best yield approx 5 oz

Widow 2nd Grow: perfect buds, smooth with expansion, head/body stone, no nutrient taste. Smaller yield. Approx 3 oz

So you can see the results. This grow was suppose to be like the second Widow grow but larger yield. Then he talked me into aeroponics and it took a while to setup.

Now with aeroponics and ceramic metal halide I think I will double my yields so please follow along 
​


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## tom__420 (Jul 5, 2009)

Everything is looking good man. The only thing is... aren't the lights a little far off the tops? I haven't used t5s before but I do use CFL's and I would suggest getting them a little closer to the tops. Keep up the excellent work


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## cruzer101 (Jul 5, 2009)

Hey Tom,

I measured the lumen's and got about 1000 in the center and about 500 on the ends.
I agree, the light is a bit far away. Its commin down a couple inches.

Thanks for the heads up.​


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## MyGTO2007 (Jul 5, 2009)

damn dude thats a clean ass setup!!


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## cruzer101 (Jul 6, 2009)

Thanks GTO

Told ya, Your the room guy, I am the cabinet guy. 
I'm closing this but I hope you follow along:
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/210479-dual-areoponic-cabinet-ceramic-metal.html​


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