# UV A And UV B In Late Flower



## Skunk Baxter (Mar 8, 2016)

This is something I've wanted to try for years, and I think I may give it a go with this grow. Today begins Week 9 for a White Rhino SOG in coco, and I still have almost all clear trichomes and some buds are still sprouting fresh new white pistils. I figure I have a good two weeks left for most of the plants, although a few look like they're in their last week (I'm growing from seed, and have several different phenos).

At any rate, I'm thinking of hitting them with UV light the last couple of weeks. Never having done it before, what suggestions do y'all have? It's a 4.5 X 4.5 tent, with a 1K Superthortilux bulb. Would I just hang several fluorescent fixtures on the edges of the tent ceiling, and put UV tubes in them? How many, and what size would be best for a 4.5 X 4.5?

Thanks in advance, everyone.


----------



## DankaDank (Mar 9, 2016)

I would go with two 115cm *Zoo Med ReptiSun 10.0 UVB T5 HO Fluorescent Tubes* and/or 
*ARCADIA D3+ T5 REPTILE DESERT FLOURESCENT HIGH OUTPUT LIGHT TUBE 12% UVB 30% UVA*

add these or an equivalent reflector
http://www.iquaticsonline.co.uk/54w-t5-aluminium-reflector.html

and these or an equivalent ballast, this ballast can power two 54w t5's
http://www.iquaticsonline.co.uk/iquatics-twin-54w-high-output-t5-electronic-ballast.html


----------



## RM3 (Mar 9, 2016)

I run UV the whole grow, yeppers even seedlings, it is after all what they get outside.

Reptile bulbs are not the best option !!! check out the new Agromax UV bulbs


----------



## DankaDank (Mar 9, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I run UV the whole grow, yeppers even seedlings, it is after all what they get outside.
> 
> Reptile bulbs are not the best option !!! check out the new Agromax UV bulbs


Interesting haven't heard of them, there's not much info on them but it seems there lights are not uv specific. Do you know what percentage of the light is uva and uvb as well as the penetration ,i know the penetration of the repti sun is 18-24 inches from the light (excluding the reflector) which is pretty darn good IMO. Why don't you like the reptile lights ? have you used the one's i previously mentioned?


----------



## RM3 (Mar 9, 2016)

DankaDank said:


> Interesting haven't heard of them, there's not much info on them but it seems there lights are not uv specific. Do you know what percentage of the light is uva and uvb as well as the penetration ,i know the penetration of the repti sun is 18-24 inches from the light (excluding the reflector) which is pretty darn good IMO. Why don't you like the reptile lights ? have you used the one's i previously mentioned?


There is a bunch of info, and they are the only bulb (thus far) with proper %'s of UVB & UVA 

https://www.htgsupply.com/Product-AgroMax-4ft-T5-Pure-UV-Bulbs

As to why I don't do reptile lights it is because I had a friend with a $6000 UV meter that tested bulbs, surprisingly there were very few that did what we need


----------



## shloppyjoe (Mar 17, 2016)

RM3 said:


> There is a bunch of info, and they are the only bulb (thus far) with proper %'s of UVB & UVA
> 
> https://www.htgsupply.com/Product-AgroMax-4ft-T5-Pure-UV-Bulbs
> 
> ...


Very cool info! I've also been thinking about adding these bulbs. What kind of meter cost 6k! I would be interested in this meter. I'm also curious how many I would need for 17x17 grow.

Also wondering if I should run in both veg and flower and for how long?


----------



## SamsonsRiddle (Mar 17, 2016)

Do they make these bulbs in spiral style or is there something you know is better than "reptile lights" in that style. I don't have room for tubes.


----------



## BobCajun (Mar 20, 2016)

Skunk Baxter said:


> This is something I've wanted to try for years, and I think I may give it a go with this grow. Today begins Week 9 for a White Rhino SOG in coco, and I still have almost all clear trichomes and some buds are still sprouting fresh new white pistils. I figure I have a good two weeks left for most of the plants, although a few look like they're in their last week (I'm growing from seed, and have several different phenos).
> 
> At any rate, I'm thinking of hitting them with UV light the last couple of weeks. Never having done it before, what suggestions do y'all have? It's a 4.5 X 4.5 tent, with a 1K Superthortilux bulb. Would I just hang several fluorescent fixtures on the edges of the tent ceiling, and put UV tubes in them? How many, and what size would be best for a 4.5 X 4.5?
> 
> Thanks in advance, everyone.


With UVB, you should bear in mind that it will reduce growth and yield significantly, but will increase secondary plant product production, meaning cannabinoids in this case. That's why I wouldn't use it in veg stage or early flowering. Until there are flowers in place, what would be the point? All you would get is reduced growth. I use CFL desert reptile bulbs, tropical are too weak. 

I start them when significant buds are forming, like 4 weeks, and I start with low wattage 13w ones and go to 26w the last 2 weeks, 2 bulbs in 1.5'x3' cabs. I mistakenly bought the tropical ones first time, and only 13s because that's all I could find locally at the time, so now I'm trying it with desert ones and 26w the last 2 weeks. The 13w tropicals didn't do much, though it did seem somewhat more potent, just not substantially. Their UV output is way lower than the desert ones, practically none.

This is only the second batch I've used UVB on so I can't tell you yet how it will turn out with the upgrade. If it doesn't make a big difference this time, I'm out, because they're just too expensive and have a very short useful life, 6 months to a year.


----------



## RM3 (Mar 20, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> That's why I wouldn't use it in veg stage or early flowering. Until there are flowers in place, what would be the point?


I have UV in veg because I breed but funny thing is when I put new plants in every one of em lean/point directly at the UV bulb, it's actually kinda cool to see


----------



## DankaDank (Mar 20, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I have UV in veg because I breed but funny thing is when I put new plants in every one of em lean/point directly at the UV bulb, it's actually kinda cool to see


Have you also noticed plants seem darker green in veg with uv ?


----------



## RM3 (Mar 20, 2016)

DankaDank said:


> Have you also noticed plants seem darker green in veg with uv ?


No, but I am a light feeder


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 20, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I run UV the whole grow, yeppers even seedlings, it is after all what they get outside.
> 
> Reptile bulbs are not the best option !!! check out the new Agromax UV bulbs


I can verify. I followed rm3 threads. I just bought agromax 10,000k+uva bulbs. I'm going to switch one out with the agromax UV bulb.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 20, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> With UVB, you should bear in mind that it will reduce growth and yield significantly, but will increase secondary plant product production, meaning cannabinoids in this case. That's why I wouldn't use it in veg stage or early flowering. Until there are flowers in place, what would be the point? All you would get is reduced growth. I use CFL desert reptile bulbs, tropical are too weak.
> 
> I start them when significant buds are forming, like 4 weeks, and I start with low wattage 13w ones and go to 26w the last 2 weeks, 2 bulbs in 1.5'x3' cabs. I mistakenly bought the tropical ones first time, and only 13s because that's all I could find locally at the time, so now I'm trying it with desert ones and 26w the last 2 weeks. The 13w tropicals didn't do much, though it did seem somewhat more potent, just not substantially. Their UV output is way lower than the desert ones, practically none.
> 
> This is only the second batch I've used UVB on so I can't tell you yet how it will turn out with the upgrade. If it doesn't make a big difference this time, I'm out, because they're just too expensive and have a very short useful life, 6 months to a year.


Bull shit. Uva or uvb neither reduce yield or growth. 

Have you seen outdoor plants? They get a lot of UV. More than we can replicate with bulbs. Plants get to be monsters outside.


----------



## testiclees (Mar 20, 2016)

after running the UVB on a few strains (arcadia t5) I think maybe UVB affects each strain a little differently. Also I dont think it's as simple as saying it makes the bud "more potent". I wonder if the UVB stimulates particular psycho active compounds but not evenly and not all of them.

This bud had quite a bit of UVB through flowering period.


----------



## Skunk Baxter (Mar 20, 2016)

testiclees said:


> after running the UVB on a few strains (arcadia t5) I think maybe UVB affects each strain a little differently. Also I dont think it's as simple as saying it makes the bud "more potent". I wonder if the UVB stimulates particular psycho active compounds but not evenly and not all of them.


That's a very good guess, IMO. 30 years ago, everybody thought it was all just about the THC, and 10 or 15 years ago everyone thought it was just THC and CBD. It's only relatively recently that we've become more aware that there are a lot more alkaloids at work in cannabis, and that they all work together in a delicate, sophisticated, and incredibly elaborate and complex harmony. I often wonder how much more we'll know about the whole spectrum of the plant's chemistry 10 years down the road - how many more alkaloids will have been identified and isolated, and their roles relative to one another more clearly understood.


----------



## BobCajun (Mar 20, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Bull shit. Uva or uvb neither reduce yield or growth.
> 
> Have you seen outdoor plants? They get a lot of UV. More than we can replicate with bulbs. Plants get to be monsters outside.


Have you actually read any scientific articles on the subject? Obviously not. You did what's known as "assuming". Try doing a little reading, and some more.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 20, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> Have you actually read any scientific articles on the subject? Obviously not. You did what's known as "assuming". Try doing a little reading, and some more.


Its your claim. I call bullshit. I'm not assuming anything. UV does not decrease growth. 

Its your claim now cite it.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 20, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> Have you actually read any scientific articles on the subject? Obviously not. You did what's known as "assuming". Try doing a little reading, and some more.


You are also comparing apple and oranges. 

Loss of yield comes from running a mh or other types of bulbs in an all blue configuration. That has more to do with color than UV.

Running UV bulbs mixed with other bulbs of mixed spectrum is the way to go in a t5 and mh/hps combo for his.

Loss of yield is not from the UV.


----------



## testiclees (Mar 20, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Bull shit. Uva or uvb neither reduce yield or growth.
> 
> Have you seen outdoor plants? They get a lot of UV. More than we can replicate with bulbs. Plants get to be monsters outside.



I dont know for a fact that UVB can stunt growth but plenty of folks state that it is so. Also, there is a graph on RIU that shows the efficacy of the UVB bulbs and then there's a NASA graph that shows the UVB irradiance at different points on earth. I think just a few t5 12% UVB close to a plant would be more intense UVB than anywhere on Earth.

"This paper reviews growth chamber, greenhouse, and field studies on the effects of ultraviolet-B (UV-B. between 280 and 320 nm) radiation on agricultural crop plants. Our understanding of the physiological effects of UV-B radiation comes primarily from growth chamber studies, where UV-B is artificially supplied via filtered lamps. Both photosystems I and II, as well as carboxylating enzymes, are sensitive to UV-B radiation. Ultraviolet-B radiation also affects stomatal resistance, chlorophyll concentration, soluble leaf proteins, lipids, and carbohydrate pools. In general, the effects of UV-B radiation are accentuated by the low levels of visible radiation typically found inside growth chambers.

Ultraviolet-B radiation has also been shown to affect anatomical and morphological plant characteristics.* Commonly observed UV-B induced changes include plant stunting, reductions in leaf area and total biomass,* and alterations in the pattern of biomass partitioning into various plant organs. In sensitive plants, evidence of cell and tissue damage often appears on the upper leaf epidermis as bronzing, glazing, and chlorosis." *

Teramura, A. H. (1983), Effects of ultraviolet-B radiation on the growth and yield of crop plants. Physiologia Plantarum, 58: 415–427. doi: 10.1111/j.1399-3054.1983.tb04203.x


----------



## Resinhound (Mar 20, 2016)

After checking out rm3's crazy christmas tree flocked buds ,I decided to add some 15000k+uv led to my led grow as well.Ive ran the arcadia d3 12% reptile bulb in the past.


----------



## testiclees (Mar 20, 2016)

Resinhound said:


> After checking out rm3's crazy christmas tree flocked buds ,I decided to add some 15000k+uv led to my led grow as well.Ive ran the arcadia d3 12% reptile bulb in the past.


Which UV led are you thinking? What type of setup?


----------



## Resinhound (Mar 20, 2016)

15000k+uv kessil aquarium led is what im using right now.Its designed for saltwater aquariums. 35watts covers my little area well.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 20, 2016)

testiclees said:


> I dont know for a fact that UVB can stunt growth but plenty of folks state that it is so. Also, there is a graph on RIU that shows the efficacy of the UVB bulbs and then there's a NASA graph that shows the UVB irradiance at different points on earth. I think just a few t5 12% UVB close to a plant would be more intense UVB than anywhere on Earth.
> 
> "This paper reviews growth chamber, greenhouse, and field studies on the effects of ultraviolet-B (UV-B. between 280 and 320 nm) radiation on agricultural crop plants. Our understanding of the physiological effects of UV-B radiation comes primarily from growth chamber studies, where UV-B is artificially supplied via filtered lamps. Both photosystems I and II, as well as carboxylating enzymes, are sensitive to UV-B radiation. Ultraviolet-B radiation also affects stomatal resistance, chlorophyll concentration, soluble leaf proteins, lipids, and carbohydrate pools. In general, the effects of UV-B radiation are accentuated by the low levels of visible radiation typically found inside growth chambers.
> 
> ...


I will agree with that. All those studies also say that varies wildly between species and about 30% are not effected by it. 

I know that there are no blanket statements for cannabis and strains can vary.

Why is there so much indica in today's pot. Mostly to increase yield. The best indica's come from terrain high in altitude and higher UV exposure. I don't recall any grows with serious negative effects from UV. Used in conjunction with mixed spectrum you get yields to.


----------



## BobCajun (Mar 20, 2016)

You may be right after all.


whitebb2727 said:


> You are also comparing apple and oranges.
> 
> Loss of yield comes from running a mh or other types of bulbs in an all blue configuration. That has more to do with color than UV.
> 
> ...


Okay, turns out you're right, at least according this article. Cannabis doesn't grow any differently with high UV-B than with none, just the THC levels change. You got me that time. I figured it was the same for Cannabis as other plants and I've read posts where people said it had negative effects. Maybe it was something else though.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 20, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> You may be right after all.
> 
> Okay, turns out you're right, at least according this article. Cannabis doesn't grow any differently with high UV-B than with none, just the THC levels change. You got me that time. I figured it was the same for Cannabis as other plants and I've read posts where people said it had negative effects. Maybe it was something else though.


You are right with what you said. It does cause decrease in yield in about 70% of plants. 

In cannabis with proper mixed spectrum you get both yield and increase in resin production.


----------



## BobCajun (Mar 20, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> You are right with what you said. It does cause decrease in yield in about 70% of plants.
> 
> In cannabis with proper mixed spectrum you get both yield and increase in resin production.


I just put the two 26w Exo Terra 150s in the cab, since there's no downside. Besides, I don't believe it would be as good if it was only for the last 2 weeks. It's the end of week 4 now so they'll get a good 6 weeks of it. Hopefully, that'll be enough wattage.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 20, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> I just put the two 26w Exo Terra 150s in the cab, since there's no downside. Besides, I don't believe it would be as good if it was only for the last 2 weeks. It's the end of week 4 now so they'll get a good 6 weeks of it. Hopefully, that'll be enough wattage.


I was using the regular factory 54w t5 bulbs. I went to agromax bulbs. 2-10,000k+uva, 2-pure par, 2-6400k, and 2-3000k. 432 watts in a 2x4x6 cab.


----------



## BobCajun (Mar 21, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I was using the regular factory 54w t5 bulbs. I went to agromax bulbs. 2-10,000k+uva, 2-pure par, 2-6400k, and 2-3000k. 432 watts in a 2x4x6 cab.


Sounds like a good setup. You may need UV-B though. To make it more potent it's supposed to be 290-315 nm. UV-A may help some though.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 21, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> Sounds like a good setup. You may need UV-B though. To make it more potent it's supposed to be 290-315 nm. UV-A may help some though.


I'm going to swap one uva out for the uva/uvb bulb. I will get some uvb from the 10,000 and 6400k bulbs.


----------



## BobCajun (Mar 21, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I'm going to swap one uva out for the uva/uvb bulb. I will get some uvb from the 10,000 and 6400k bulbs.


You won't get any more than maybe 1/40th of the UV-B of sunlight from any bulb that's made with normal glass, because it filters almost all of it out. The reptile lights are made with special glass. BTW, you will never see an LED grow light that has 290 nm UV-B LEDs in it, because they are very costly, for some reason. UV-A ones are cheap and so are UV-C. That's why some LED grow light companies include UV-A. But it won't make the plants more potent, maybe more healthy in some way but not more potent. I tried blacklight CFLs and no improvement, that's UV-A. Besides, UV-A is about the same level at all altitudes, yet Cannabis only gets more potent in areas with high UV-B.


----------



## Resinhound (Mar 21, 2016)

Do we really need to start the decaroxylation process on the plant? I was under the impression uva leads to an increase of trichomes and oils.THCA can be converted to THC in a seperate process after harvest.I havent seen anything that shows uvb Itself is responsible for more oil production only to raise THC levels by prematurely converting THCA to THC on the plant.


----------



## BobCajun (Mar 21, 2016)

Resinhound said:


> Do we really need to start the decaroxylation process on the plant? I was under the impression uva leads to an increase of trichomes and oils.THCA can be converted to THC in a seperate process after harvest.I havent seen anything that shows uvb Itself is responsible for more oil production only to raise THC levels by prematurely converting THCA to THC on the plant.


Doubtful, because they probably used simple gas chromatography to test for THC and that process uses heat and results in all the THCA being turned to THC. Besides, we know from reports that people definitely can tell the difference between the UV-B weed and regular. It's possible that the UV converts some of the THCA to THC, but if you're going to smoke it then it would be converted anyway. No, it's not some kind of illusion, the strength of the weed goes up by about a third. People report only needing 3/4 as much as usual for the same effect. Whether it just makes more resin or if the resin itself becomes higher in THC than normal, I don't know. You would have to test shatter from both types and see if they differ. Maybe you just get a third more resin.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 21, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> You won't get any more than maybe 1/40th of the UV-B of sunlight from any bulb that's made with normal glass, because it filters almost all of it out. The reptile lights are made with special glass. BTW, you will never see an LED grow light that has 290 nm UV-B LEDs in it, because they are very costly, for some reason. UV-A ones are cheap and so are UV-C. That's why some LED grow light companies include UV-A. But it won't make the plants more potent, maybe more healthy in some way but not more potent. I tried blacklight CFLs and no improvement, that's UV-A. Besides, UV-A is about the same level at all altitudes, yet Cannabis only gets more potent in areas with high UV-B.


I don't think it is as simple as that. Agromax makes horticulture bulbs. I'm sure they are making the 10,000k+uva for a reason and if it lets uva, some uvb will be provided to. They also make a better uva/uvb bulb than reptile bulbs. 

I'll see this run at the difference it makes.


----------



## BobCajun (Mar 21, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I don't think it is as simple as that. Agromax makes horticulture bulbs. I'm sure they are making the 10,000k+uva for a reason and if it lets uva, some uvb will be provided to. They also make a better uva/uvb bulb than reptile bulbs.
> 
> I'll see this run at the difference it makes.


The 10000k are apparently to boost the blue spectrum of HPS, that's what they say. Any glass lets UV-A through, but blocks almost all UV-B, so you wouldn't get much from those. They do sell pure UV tubes though. But look at the microwatts at various distances. They'd have to be about 1 inch from the plants for high UV.
The ones with the UV-A you mentioned must be these ones. Here's what they say about it;

"*UV-A Plus FLOWERING:* To be used as a supplemental lighting source for any HID lighting system including HPS. The UV-A Plus spectrum is primarily 10,000K with an added UV-A spectrum which is deficient in all HID systems especially HPS. It is believed that without the presence of the UV-A spectrum that plants can never reach their full potential as UV-A is present in Sunlight but deficient in common indoor grow light sources."

Notice how it says nothing about potency, just "full potential". I've never seen one study showing that UV-A increases potency, though it may have some beneficial effect. I've seen ones where they said they use UV-A and B together, but never UV-A alone.


----------



## Resinhound (Mar 21, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> The 10000k are apparently to boost the blue spectrum of HPS, that's what they say. Any glass lets UV-A through, but blocks almost all UV-B, so you wouldn't get much from those. They do sell pure UV tubes though. But look at the microwatts at various distances. They'd have to be about 1 inch from the plants for high UV.
> The ones with the UV-A you mentioned must be these ones. Here's what they say about it;
> 
> "*UV-A Plus FLOWERING:* To be used as a supplemental lighting source for any HID lighting system including HPS. The UV-A Plus spectrum is primarily 10,000K with an added UV-A spectrum which is deficient in all HID systems especially HPS. It is believed that without the presence of the UV-A spectrum that plants can never reach their full potential as UV-A is present in Sunlight but deficient in common indoor grow light sources."
> ...


Well if you arent including parts of the spectrum the sun has been providing for them for several millenia,it seems like that would affect potency to some degree.I really dont think its plausible to pick a narrow band out of the spectrum and say "this is what affects potency and nothing else".Obviously the book isnt closed on this yet,just because you haven't seen a study doesnt mean anything...maybe one hasnt been done yet.It was only a few years ago,that it was found plants do absorb green light.There wasnt many studies 10 years ago on that either.Time has a way of answering these questions.

And btw "I can tell its more potent" isnt exactly scientific proof.Nor is " and so and so says its more potent too".It takes gas chromatography and several thousand samples to prove the increased thc content.


----------



## BobCajun (Mar 22, 2016)

Resinhound said:


> Well if you arent including parts of the spectrum the sun has been providing for them for several millenia,it seems like that would affect potency to some degree.I really dont think its plausible to pick a narrow band out of the spectrum and say "this is what affects potency and nothing else".Obviously the book isnt closed on this yet,just because you haven't seen a study doesnt mean anything...maybe one hasnt been done yet.It was only a few years ago,that it was found plants do absorb green light.There wasnt many studies 10 years ago on that either.Time has a way of answering these questions.
> 
> And btw "I can tell its more potent" isnt exactly scientific proof.Nor is " and so and so says its more potent too".It takes gas chromatography and several thousand samples to prove the increased thc content.


Fine. Let us know how it turns out then. Personally, I'm a desert reptile CFL guy, though perhaps surprisingly, I'm not a reptilian.


----------



## BobCajun (Mar 23, 2016)

I'm already noticing more potency, just after a few cycles with the rep CFLs. I made my own reflectors from the smallest aluminum baking pans, for small lasagnas or something. I pulled the sides and front out some to make it more roundish, cut a flap into one end and bent the flap out and wrapped and zip tied it to the socket thing. Worked real nice. Now the UVB is all directed down from the horizontally mounted CFLs at each end of the cab.

The difference is so easily noticeable that I got quite high just from a skinny secondary I tested. Two 26 watters in a half sq meter cab is just about right, so like 100 w per sq m or about 10-20% of main light wattage (20% in my case). Is it just my imagination? Maybe, I sure got high though whereas with non-UVB crops I had to extract the resin from the trimmings and bottom bud and dry it onto the buds to make it worth smoking. The trimmings weighed about 1/3 of the weight of the good buds so that increased potency by about 1/3. Now it's actually smokable as is. I also get a little bit of extra usable PAR light from the Reptile CFLs. It fills in the ends of the cab, which were less bright than the center where the LEDs are.


----------



## Resinhound (Mar 23, 2016)

I think youre right uvb probably does increase potency,but there is also a thing called the placebo effect thats real too.Its worth experimenting with but I hesitate to call "I can tell the difference" proof.This industry has a habit of adopting anything as proof at the slightest hint of evidence.


----------



## BobCajun (Mar 23, 2016)

Resinhound said:


> I think youre right uvb probably does increase potency,but there is also a thing called the placebo effect thats real too.Its worth experimenting with but I hesitate to call "I can tell the difference" proof.This industry has a habit of adopting anything as proof at the slightest hint of evidence.


True enough, which is why I'm still cautious about it. Could just be because I haven't been smoking as heavily lately. But let's face it, there's enough evidence out there to conclude that it does work. I'm just confirming it. If it's this potent at 4.5 weeks then it should be uncommonly good when ripe.


----------



## greasemonkeymann (Mar 23, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I don't think it is as simple as that. Agromax makes horticulture bulbs. I'm sure they are making the 10,000k+uva for a reason and if it lets uva, some uvb will be provided to. They also make a better uva/uvb bulb than reptile bulbs.
> 
> I'll see this run at the difference it makes.


you guys use the 10k 600w mh bulbs yet?
I've used it for one grow (on my second) and you can VISUALLY see the difference in the glands produced on the MH side.
I'm running a normal 600hps and then the 10k 600w mh.
You can see the difference, very easily.
I've used mixed bulb setups for yrs and yrs, and I have always thought the mixed spectrum produced a MUCH better product.
Now that they finally have made a 600w mh, it's just awesome.
It's cheap, go buy the bulb and try it for yourself. Most will be fired in most digital ballasts.
Also make sure to take off the hood reflector glass on any aircooled setups, you want the bulb bare.
I don't think i'll go back to a pure HPS setup.
To the naked eye the mh seems MUCH brighter than the hps, but that's all just the visible light.
You also may want to buy some acetylene cutting torch glasses, and long-sleeved labcoats for when the light is on.
90% of my maintenance is done during the night schedule


----------



## Rrog (Mar 23, 2016)

Interesting GMM. I wonder if its the blue wavelengths or specifically UV causing the results?


----------



## BobCajun (Mar 23, 2016)

Rrog said:


> Interesting GMM. I wonder if its the blue wavelengths or specifically UV causing the results?


I guess they do put some UVB out, not a lot in the 290-315 Cannabis potency range though. Here's the page. The spectrum also looks very similar with and without the "shielding glass". I know that CMH grow more potent product than HPS or LED, 22% vs 18% for the other two, in the test I saw. Maybe that's why, a little UVB at 315 nm.


----------



## greasemonkeymann (Mar 23, 2016)

Rrog said:


> Interesting GMM. I wonder if its the blue wavelengths or specifically UV causing the results?


if I were to guess, i'd say it's mostly the blue spectrums, reason I say that is even the oldschool MH bulbs tended to give the appearance of bigger glands.
but with this bulb it's even more noticeable.
BUT the caveat being I tried new strains with this bulb, more specifically hashplant strains from Bodhi, soooo those are normally a pretty chunky plant.
BUUUUT furthermore, this is a grow where the hps is in the corner, and the mh is next to it.
If you were there, you'd be able to visibly see the difference, and in my opinion it's obvious that the MH side looks nicer.
the bulbs are roughly the same age, although I did do one single harvest with that other HPS, but it's still well within it's lifespan.
It's something I urge people to try on their own, it's worth the 75 bucks or so
another thing to note, I didn't get any powder mold this harvest, not even a spot....
And that was during those big-ass California storms we had
Sorta wonder if it works like a aquarium uv sterilizer


----------



## greasemonkeymann (Mar 23, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> I guess they do put some UVB out, not a lot in the 290-315 Cannabis potency range though. Here's the page. The spectrum also looks very similar with and without the "shielding glass". I know that CMH grow more potent product than HPS or LED, 22% vs 18% for the other two, in the test I saw. Maybe that's why, a little UVB at 315 nm.


I see they didn't test the 600?
Here is a link to the info regarding those, and it's significant uv at the 300 range
http://solis-tek.com/solistek-600w-mh-10k-finisher-de-lamp.html
the pdf on the page shows the graph


----------



## BobCajun (Mar 23, 2016)

greasemonkeymann said:


> I see they didn't test the 600?
> Here is a link to the info regarding those, and it's significant uv at the 300 range
> http://solis-tek.com/solistek-600w-mh-10k-finisher-de-lamp.html
> the pdf on the page shows the graph


Weird that they cut the chart off at 350. You can see there must be a bunch more below that. Maybe dangerous amounts or maybe hardly any from 315-290. Very suspicious that they know it's UVB that increases potency and yet they cut the graph off before that. Have you heard from anyone who used them, as to whether it increases potency much?


----------



## greasemonkeymann (Mar 23, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> Weird that they cut the chart off at 350. You can see there must be a bunch more below that. Maybe dangerous amounts or maybe hardly any from 315-290. Very suspicious that they know it's UVB that increases potency and yet they cut the graph off before that. Have you heard from anyone who used them, as to whether it increases potency much?


nah.. I was the guinea pig in my circle of growers
This time I am running plants and strains that I've done before, so i'll be able to tell a lil better
This run is grapegods and some sour lemon og, both I've ran before
I'm not really in LOVE with the bulb I prefer to not get too excited with any strains or techniques before I thoroughly test them
It literally LOOKS better on the 10k side, than the hps, lights on or off.
Another thing to note is the shade of green is a speck lighter on the MH side, I assume it's due to the increased blues.
Almost appears sorta lime-green like an outdoor grow would.
And no it's not a nitrogen def


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 23, 2016)

greasemonkeymann said:


> you guys use the 10k 600w mh bulbs yet?
> I've used it for one grow (on my second) and you can VISUALLY see the difference in the glands produced on the MH side.
> I'm running a normal 600hps and then the 10k 600w mh.
> You can see the difference, very easily.
> ...


I will maybe go hid if I get around to building a room. I couldn't run a 600 unless it was air cooled in my cab. I was considering putting a 600 in it. I decided I wanted to do a few more runs with my t5 and try different spectrums.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 23, 2016)

Rrog said:


> Interesting GMM. I wonder if its the blue wavelengths or specifically UV causing the results?


According to rm3, the blue gives you more tricomes and the visual difference. The uvb gives you more resin production.

My first run on t5s was with all blue bulbs and they were frosty. 

Its the reason I like mixed spectrum.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2016)

From various sources I trust, I've gleaned a few nuggets along the way; 

UVB peaking around 315nm is the desired spectrum for increased resin production and potency. 

The spherical shape of the resin glands on the leaf, plus the pad inside where resin production occurs, seem to actively focus UVB. This leads me to believe that our interest in the plant should be a lot more focused on the production of those glands than current practices suggest. 

Because of the hazardous nature of UV light to humans, it makes sense to generate it with different sources than the main lighting and shut it off when people are in there. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of working in the dark. 

The amount of UVB a plant gets can change the perceived high dramatically. 

Again, these are nuggets I've scrounged up, all are fair game for debate or disavowal.


----------



## 517BlckBerry (Mar 23, 2016)

I use a mix of MH and HPS in flower. Always produced better buds than strictly hps. This round in my new room I think I'm going to run HPS until a little before flush. Then switch to MH bulb ? Hmm...


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2016)

So I'm cooking up a new lamp combo. With the help of some friends, it seems that the 860W CDM Allstart lamp from Philips has a surprise trick up its sleeve; the ability to run on 1000W. That's what it does on a magnetic ballast that's wired to 120 or 240V. On the mag, its performance isn't anything to write home about.

However, if one can find a low frequency square wave (LFSW) thousand watt ballast, this lamp can perform like a thousand watt version of the current darling of the commercial warehouse set, the 315W CMH system. 

They're out there. The Horti Platinum is one, but I keep hearing rumors about it being discontinued.


----------



## Skunk Baxter (Mar 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> However, if one can find a low frequency square wave (LFSW) thousand watt ballast, this lamp can perform like a thousand watt version of the current darling of the commercial warehouse set, the 315W CMH system.


OK, it's no secret that when the talk turns to the technical aspects of lighting, I'm completely in the dark. So forgive the stupid question, but - how is this measured and quantified? Not that I'm doubting you; I just want to know how to find the numbers and learn to read them and (possibly) understand them. At least, better than I do now. What can I read and study to learn how to understand that post, and others like it?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2016)

Skunk Baxter said:


> OK, it's no secret that when the talk turns to the technical aspects of lighting, I'm completely in the dark. So forgive the stupid question, but - how is this measured and quantified? Not that I'm doubting you; I just want to know how to find the numbers and learn to read them and (possibly) understand them. At least, better than I do now. What can I read and study to learn how to understand that post, and others like it?


Well here's the thing; I'm not using any quantifiable data, I'm engaging in educated conjecture. But the bread crumbs are here for anyone to follow; 860W CDM Allstart is the same tech as the lamp in 315W CMH lights. Both require low frequency ballasts. The 860W lamp happily runs at 1000W on a magnetic ballast. I have a friend who is testing the 860W Allstart on a Horti Platinum low frequency square wave thousand watt ballast and according to him, it's working 'brilliantly'. What's left is to run the two ballasts head to head on the same lamp, in the same test rig with an apogee light meter. I don't have such equipment, but I see no reason to suspect that the 860W CDM run at 1000W on a LFSW ballast won't perform like the 315W CMH lights.


----------



## Resinhound (Mar 23, 2016)

Hey good news found a 100watt industrial UVB led fixture and its only $45,167.00.Im a liiiitttle short right now...


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2016)

Resinhound said:


> Hey good news found a 100watt industrial UVB led fixture and its only $45,167.00.Im a liiiitttle short right now...


Ooooo! Put up the link!


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Ooooo! Put up the link!


Thinking of reverse engineering it and selling them a little cheaper?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 24, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Thinking of reverse engineering it and selling them a little cheaper?


You know it, home slice! I bet I can get them down to under $40k!


----------



## Resinhound (Mar 24, 2016)

http://www.larsonelectronics.com/showproduct.aspx?productid=105960&gclid=CjwKEAjw_ci3BRDSvfjortr--DQSJADU8f2jTi5Qm59hG6aJaHwZSxVjrwvTk61x7eFU6KAYKnSEmhoC9iLw_wcB


----------



## Skunk Baxter (Mar 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Well here's the thing; I'm not using any quantifiable data, I'm engaging in educated conjecture. But the bread crumbs are here for anyone to follow; 860W CDM Allstart is the same tech as the lamp in 315W CMH lights. Both require low frequency ballasts. The 860W lamp happily runs at 1000W on a magnetic ballast. I have a friend who is testing the 860W Allstart on a Horti Platinum low frequency square wave thousand watt ballast and according to him, it's working 'brilliantly'. What's left is to run the two ballasts head to head on the same lamp, in the same test rig with an apogee light meter. I don't have such equipment, but I see no reason to suspect that the 860W CDM run at 1000W on a LFSW ballast won't perform like the 315W CMH lights.


I'll take your educated conjecture over a lot of people's quantifiable data any day of the week. There's an awful lot about the way I grow weed that I can't quantify either, but when Week 10 or Week 12 or Week Whatever rolls around, the weight is there. And I can even explain how I did it, but I can't write it down and teach someone else how to do the same thing and achieve the same results.

Thanks again for the info. I'm going to be really interested in seeing how this progresses for you. I don't know anywhere near as much about this as you do, but on a gut level I know that where you're going with this is exactly where I sense that the future lies.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 24, 2016)

Resinhound said:


> http://www.larsonelectronics.com/showproduct.aspx?productid=105960&gclid=CjwKEAjw_ci3BRDSvfjortr--DQSJADU8f2jTi5Qm59hG6aJaHwZSxVjrwvTk61x7eFU6KAYKnSEmhoC9iLw_wcB


Zoomed and other companies make UV led hoods for reptiles for less than $200. 

Punch in uvb led and all kinds of stuff comes up. There are some companies making stuff for uvb. There are uvb screw in led bulbs.


----------



## Resinhound (Mar 24, 2016)

Ya I have a reptile light its just a pain in the ass.Dumbass little 22in flouro tube,honestly cant be bothered to try and hang it.Its made to sit on a reptile enclosure I guess.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 24, 2016)

Resinhound said:


> Ya I have a reptile light its just a pain in the ass.Dumbass little 22in flouro tube,honestly cant be bothered to try and hang it.Its made to sit on a reptile enclosure I guess.


Most of the UV led stuff is for chemical curing, medical and sanitation. 

If one were to take the time I'm sure cree makes something to fit the bill. We just got to find it and see about incorporating it into grow lights.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 24, 2016)

Skunk Baxter said:


> I'll take your educated conjecture over a lot of people's quantifiable data any day of the week. There's an awful lot about the way I grow weed that I can't quantify either, but when Week 10 or Week 12 or Week Whatever rolls around, the weight is there. And I can even explain how I did it, but I can't write it down and teach someone else how to do the same thing and achieve the same results.
> 
> Thanks again for the info. I'm going to be really interested in seeing how this progresses for you. I don't know anywhere near as much about this as you do, but on a gut level I know that where you're going with this is exactly where I sense that the future lies.


The future is COB LED. This is the present, which is still 30% more efficient than the recent past.


----------



## BobCajun (Mar 24, 2016)

I think it will be quite a while yet before UVB LEDs get low enough in price to be practical. The fluorescent tubes would need to be about 1-2" from the plants, the intensity drops off so fast. Seems to me that reptile CFLs are the only practical UVB source right now. A CFL is like a straight tube but compressed into a much smaller area, therefore it has usable intensity at least 4x as far away as the straight tubes, judging from the output specs I've seen. You would also need a reflector to increase intensity by about 3x, and it has to be plain aluminum, not white, because white absorbs the UVB.

Good thing the reptile CFLs are available or it would be very inconvenient and probably very costly to use UVB on Cannabis. With the rep CFLs, pretty easy really, and not all that costly. It would be nice if they cost the same as regular CFLs but it's still affordable. Whether the results are worth the price, you would have to try it and judge for yourself. Nobody will believe anyone else anyway so pretty much have to try and see for yourself. I can tell you that two 13w tropical UVB CFLs in a half sq m cab and about a foot from the tops, with only the flat top of the cab covered in foil as reflector, does pretty much nothing. But then that was tropical UVB, which is pretty weak (I bought the wrong kind by mistake the first time, shit!), and only 13w. This time I'm using two 26w desert bulbs, plus I made reflectors out of aluminum lasagna pans, so this time I should get an accurate idea of whether it works or not.


----------



## Resinhound (Mar 24, 2016)

I wont be including UVB in my grows until there is a cost effective led option if ever...why?

Because I dont want to hang a bunch of cfls 2 inches from my plant with lasanga pans as reflectors,or dangle some tubes .Id rather my grow light doesnt have to compete with a bunch of cfls and makeshift reflectors....I just dont think UVB matters enough to fuck up my grow room.If It's merely a matter of 1 hit vs 2.ill just take 2.


----------



## qwizoking (Mar 24, 2016)

"Itd be cool to see side by side of flowering times structure etc. Involving cry genes being hit etc

They dont work the same, uvr8 specifically increases certain precursors that can increase terp content. Uva could help im not sure or through what pathways

If this is the route youtake ie not.just growing weed but a more sciency approach or optimizing. an increase in blue light could aid photolyase activation. I would definitely use in conjunction but again see top of post"


Has anyone done uva side bybside and what was noted




Didnt read thread


----------



## Rrog (Mar 24, 2016)

Cool that you mention THC precursors. In the past, I've started UV-B in early veg, just to get any precursor potential.

It'll be cool in 10 years when all this is quantified and peer-reviewed. We are pioneers at this point


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 24, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> I think it will be quite a while yet before UVB LEDs get low enough in price to be practical. The fluorescent tubes would need to be about 1-2" from the plants, the intensity drops off so fast. Seems to me that reptile CFLs are the only practical UVB source right now. A CFL is like a straight tube but compressed into a much smaller area, therefore it has usable intensity at least 4x as far away as the straight tubes, judging from the output specs I've seen. You would also need a reflector to increase intensity by about 3x, and it has to be plain aluminum, not white, because white absorbs the UVB.
> 
> Good thing the reptile CFLs are available or it would be very inconvenient and probably very costly to use UVB on Cannabis. With the rep CFLs, pretty easy really, and not all that costly. It would be nice if they cost the same as regular CFLs but it's still affordable. Whether the results are worth the price, you would have to try it and judge for yourself. Nobody will believe anyone else anyway so pretty much have to try and see for yourself. I can tell you that two 13w tropical UVB CFLs in a half sq m cab and about a foot from the tops, with only the flat top of the cab covered in foil as reflector, does pretty much nothing. But then that was tropical UVB, which is pretty weak (I bought the wrong kind by mistake the first time, shit!), and only 13w. This time I'm using two 26w desert bulbs, plus I made reflectors out of aluminum lasagna pans, so this time I should get an accurate idea of whether it works or not.


Cfl is weaker than t5. 

I have a feeling that you are very new to growing. 



Resinhound said:


> I wont be including UVB in my grows until there is a cost effective led option if ever...why?
> 
> Because I dont want to hang a bunch of cfls 2 inches from my plant with lasanga pans as reflectors,or dangle some tubes .Id rather my grow light doesnt have to compete with a bunch of cfls and makeshift reflectors....I just dont think UVB matters enough to fuck up my grow room.If It's merely a matter of 1 hit vs 2.ill just take 2.


Your wouldn't have to do all that. The uva bulbs I am using now I can feel on my skin from a couple feet away and I can tell a difference in plant growth with the seedlings. You take that uva/uvb bulb from agromax and I'm sure it has strong enough out put for a couple feet.


----------



## Resinhound (Mar 24, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Cfl is weaker than t5.
> 
> I have a feeling that you are very new to growing.
> 
> ...


Ill look into it thanks man.What % UVB are those?


----------



## greasemonkeymann (Mar 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Personally, I'm not a huge fan of working in the dark.
> 
> .


you can get a good green light that won't interrupt the cycle man
I think they are crucial, well... to those of us that run the lights at night


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 24, 2016)

Resinhound said:


> Ill look into it thanks man.What % UVB are those?


https://www.htgsupply.com/Product-AgroMax-4ft-T5-Pure-UV-Bulbs# 

75%uvb 25% uva from a 54w 5000 lumen bulb.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 24, 2016)

For any interested, hortilux came out with the power veg t5 bulb and now has a whole line of t5 bulbs including UV bulbs. They are costly but I'm sure they are good. Hortilux is a name synonymous with quality. The powerveg full spectrum hits the UV and reds and blues. Check them out. All five bulbs listed.

http://www.eyehortilux.com/products/power-veg.aspx


----------



## pinner420 (Mar 24, 2016)

A little spendy; however, the girls are liking it. Uva and uvb whilst great for tasty trichs also is coveted for preventing PM. 

http://www.eyehortilux.com/products/power-veg.aspx


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 24, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> A little spendy; however, the girls are liking it. Uva and uvb whilst great for tasty trichs also is coveted for preventing PM.
> 
> http://www.eyehortilux.com/products/power-veg.aspx


Which ones are you running?


----------



## Rrog (Mar 24, 2016)

Resinhound said:


> .If It's merely a matter of 1 hit vs 2.ill just take 2.



^^^ that's some inescapable logic, right there

If I was there, I'd have 2 hits with you


----------



## testiclees (Mar 24, 2016)

The agro max and the hortilux are about the same price. Anyone have any thoughts on which would be better value? Im about to replace a single arcadia t5 48".


----------



## pinner420 (Mar 24, 2016)

The full spectrum ultra every other socket. 30 bucks a bulb. Didn't realize they'd expanded their line so much. Then the spectral 3000k in the other.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 24, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> The full spectrum ultra every other socket. 30 bucks a bulb. Didn't realize they'd expanded their line so much. Then the spectral 3000k in the other.


I found a hydro shop about 2 hour drive from here that has the hortilux t5 bulbs for $25 a pop and I get a 10% discount for being ex military.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 24, 2016)

testiclees said:


> The agro max and the hortilux are about the same price. Anyone have any thoughts on which would be better value? Im about to replace a single arcadia t5 48".


I think they are about the same. I know @RM3 speaks highly for the agromax and his thread showcases how well they work.


----------



## BobCajun (Mar 24, 2016)

Resinhound said:


> I wont be including UVB in my grows until there is a cost effective led option if ever...why?
> 
> Because I dont want to hang a bunch of cfls 2 inches from my plant with lasanga pans as reflectors,or dangle some tubes .Id rather my grow light doesnt have to compete with a bunch of cfls and makeshift reflectors....I just dont think UVB matters enough to fuck up my grow room.If It's merely a matter of 1 hit vs 2.ill just take 2.


True that it's inconvenient. CFLs only need to be about 8" away though. But it's every grower's own call what they want to use.


----------



## caretak3r (Mar 24, 2016)

You guys will probably appreciate the testing data found here:

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor-tests.htm#totalUVB

I've already got an r-zilla 50 laying around so I guess I should throw it in the cab and see what it does


----------



## Abucks (Mar 29, 2016)

Resinhound said:


> http://www.larsonelectronics.com/showproduct.aspx?productid=105960&gclid=CjwKEAjw_ci3BRDSvfjortr--DQSJADU8f2jTi5Qm59hG6aJaHwZSxVjrwvTk61x7eFU6KAYKnSEmhoC9iLw_wcB


I just ordered a bakers dozen of these. Lol


----------



## testiclees (Mar 31, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I think they are about the same. I know @RM3 speaks highly for the agromax and his thread showcases how well they work.


I grabbed the agromax uv t5 and hung it this week. My plants responded to it right away. I use350w 4k v29, 200w 3500k 3590 ....looks like the agromax spectrum was filling a open sweet spot.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

testiclees said:


> I grabbed the agromax uv t5 and hung it this week. My plants responded to it right away. I use350w 4k v29, 200w 3500k 3590 ....looks like the agromax spectrum was filling a open sweet spot.


How many did you get? Cost? How did you install them? I have lots of those very same CXB3590 3500K chips and I'm looking for an effective way to supplement them with some UVB.


----------



## testiclees (Mar 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> How many did you get? Cost? How did you install them? I have lots of those very same CXB3590 3500K chips and I'm looking for an effective way to supplement them with some UVB.


My space is roughly 2x4 i suspended a single 4', t5 just under the bar. I has about 14-16" clearance from canopy. It isnt pretty but its bright.

The 3500k cxbs work great on their own as a flowering lamp. This plant was just flipped as i hung the t5 fixture. The response was immediate and obvious.

It was $35 shipped for just the tube. I already a basic single t5 fixture.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

testiclees said:


> My space is roughly 2x4 i suspended a single 4', t5 just under the bar. I has about 14-16" clearance from canopy. It isnt pretty but its bright.
> 
> The 3500k cxbs work great on their own as a flowering lamp. This plant was just flipped as i hung the t5 fixture. The response was immediate and obvious.
> 
> It was $35 shipped for just the tube. I already a basic single t5 fixture.


Why, thank you very much! Link me to your thread, please, I'd like to see how things turn out!


----------



## RM3 (Mar 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> How many did you get? Cost? How did you install them? I have lots of those very same CXB3590 3500K chips and I'm looking for an effective way to supplement them with some UVB.


I told you how lol


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I told you how lol


You were not forthcoming about how MUCH, mostly because we didn't know how to calculate it relative to the amount of light from the COB LED. 

@testiclees has a setup just like my module, so I can watch and see how well his known quantity of UVB does.


----------



## testiclees (Mar 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You were not forthcoming about how MUCH, mostly because we didn't know how to calculate it relative to the amount of light from the COB LED.
> 
> @testiclees has a setup just like my module, so I can watch and see how well his known quantity of UVB does.


Bro i apologize. I experienced a senior stoner moment. I remembered ordering the agromax tube. But the tube that i placed in my t5 fixture is the hortilux power veg fs +uv 54w.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

testiclees said:


> Bro i apologize. I experienced a senior stoner moment. I remembered ordering the agromax tube. But the tube that i placed in my t5 fixture is the hortilux power veg fs +uv 54w.


I happen to have access to these, too. Anyway, let me know if you upgrade, meanwhile let the show continue!


----------



## testiclees (Mar 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I happen to have access to these, too. Anyway, let me know if you upgrade, meanwhile let the show continue!


As soon as i made the discovery i went to puchase an agromax. You can grab one on ebay for 37$. Im not sure that it would actually be an upgrade. Folks love the hortilux tubes and they have a good rep in horticulture. And it was that bulb that my girlrs responded to.

I think illl hold off on purchasing agromax until i observe at least some initial flower development while under the power veg.

Ill def keep you posted. I can put up some pics of sin mint cookies and kali china both just flipped under that rig.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 3, 2016)

testiclees said:


> As soon as i made the discovery i went to puchase an agromax. You can grab one on ebay for 37$. Im not sure that it would actually be an upgrade. Folks love the hortilux tubes and they have a good rep in horticulture. And it was that bulb that my girlrs responded to.
> 
> I think illl hold off on purchasing agromax until i observe at least some initial flower development while under the power veg.
> 
> Ill def keep you posted. I can put up some pics of sin mint cookies and kali china both just flipped under that rig.


I'm always down for pics!


----------



## testiclees (Apr 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm always down for pics!


this is sin mint cookies fem. She's had 3 weeks veg 18/6 then one week 14/10 with 730. Flipped to 12/12 on monday so 3 days 12/12 with 730. I had a few days with the hortilux t5 too close and it toasted the large fan edges. I've lowered the dosage time for the t5 and raised the the light rig. The plant is super dense and stocky. The shoots popping from the lowest stems are like small plants. I fimmed it 10 days ago so the tops look a lil screwy but I have no doubt this plant will deliver. (if there are no hermie issues)


----------



## Blunted 4 lyfe (Apr 7, 2016)

Hey test & ttystikk can any of you guys provide me with a good source for both type of bulbs, I have 2 T5 fixtures (1) 2' x 4 bulbs (1) 2' x 8 bulbs. I'm currently coming up to week 4 of flower...I flipped on 3/10 would it be too late for using these bulbs or should I just leave it for my next run?

My current set up is a 4' x 4' x 9' closet with a 400 watt hps, but I would love to try a full run with just my T5's 2' x 8 bulb fixture of course. 

B4L


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 7, 2016)

Blunted 4 lyfe said:


> Hey test & ttystikk can any of you guys provide me with a good source for both type of bulbs, I have 2 T5 fixtures (1) 2' x 4 bulbs (1) 2' x 8 bulbs. I'm currently coming up to week 4 of flower...I flipped on 3/10 would it be too late for using these bulbs or should I just leave it for my next run?
> 
> My current set up is a 4' x 4' x 9' closet with a 400 watt hps, but I would love to try a full run with just my T5's 2' x 8 bulb fixture of course.
> 
> B4L


The guy to ask is @RM3 cuz this is right in his wheelhouse. He'll know what brands, color temps, how many UV lamps, the works.


----------



## Blunted 4 lyfe (Apr 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The guy to ask is @RM3 cuz this is right in his wheelhouse. He'll know what brands, color temps, how many UV lamps, the works.


Thanks I appreciate it.

B4L


----------



## testiclees (Apr 7, 2016)

I ended up getting both the hortilux and the agromax t5s got both of them @
https://www.htgsupply.com/Category-T5-Fluorescent


----------



## Blunted 4 lyfe (Apr 7, 2016)

testiclees said:


> I ended up getting both the hortilux and the agromax t5s goth both of them @
> https://www.htgsupply.com/Category-T5-Fluorescent


Thanks man I appreciate that information.

B4L


----------



## Dr. Who (Apr 12, 2016)

DankaDank said:


> Interesting haven't heard of them, there's not much info on them but it seems there lights are not uv specific. Do you know what percentage of the light is uva and uvb as well as the penetration ,i know the penetration of the repti sun is 18-24 inches from the light (excluding the reflector) which is pretty darn good IMO. Why don't you like the reptile lights ? have you used the one's i previously mentioned?


Reptile bulbs are weak and only have an "effective" UV penetration distance of 18" from the bulb.........


----------



## DankaDank (Apr 12, 2016)

Dr. Who said:


> Reptile bulbs are weak and only have an "effective" UV penetration distance of 18" from the bulb.........


That’s a bit of a generalization, but yes I do agree with you from the research I’ve done the Agromax does seem to be the better option (its puts out more uw/cm2 than the Reptisun and Arcadia) ,however I am perfectly happy with my 18 inch penetration as that's where most of the prime buds are. Its also worth noting that most reptile bulbs are still superior to the current led uv's. Another important factor that is being neglected is not just the intensity and spectra the light outputs but also the milliwatt maintenance of how fast, and to what amount the efficiency decreases over time.


----------



## Dr. Who (Apr 12, 2016)

DankaDank said:


> That’s a bit of a generalization, but yes I do agree with you from the research I’ve done the Agromax does seem to be the better option (its puts out more uw/cm2 than the Reptisun and Arcadia) ,however I am perfectly happy with my 18 inch penetration as that's where most of the prime buds are. Its also worth noting that most reptile bulbs are still superior to the current led uv's. Another important factor that is being neglected is not just the intensity and spectra the light outputs but also the milliwatt maintenance of how fast, and to what amount the efficiency decreases over time.


The weak one's are designed that way to "protect humans" .....Most likely by request of the companies legal dept!

You should look at 400w Merc vapor bulbs......Yes they have "safety" glass but the high output from the Merc Vapors have UV warnings right on the package about how you STILL need to limit exposure do to that...

I used them like 6 years ago and had some interesting results......Very strong!

I see your point but, still rather inclined to higher cleaner outputs for deeper penetrations. I need better then 18" to cover most of my mains.


----------



## Dr. Who (Apr 12, 2016)

My little pending "vacation" (looks as though it could be 60< days) has me prepping for reduced runs, with more focus on quality and efficiency......I have drug out 4-6 bank and 2-8 bank T-5 units and am planing on dialing in some RM3 style ops alongside 1K dual arc's and an 820CDM with the sq wave Phantom ballast as you @ttystikk mentioned earlier.....Bulbs have been ordered...

Might as well go back to testing and research, as I'll have the time. Wife says I should take the visit offer up from Riddle too......Not a bad idea as I have friends in C. Springs and Canyon City I would like to see too! No real plans on that yet..


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 12, 2016)

These seem to like the 10,000k +uva. I also have some pure par bulbs along with 6500 and 3000k. I like a good mixed spectrum.


----------



## DankaDank (Apr 13, 2016)

Dr. Who said:


> The weak one's are designed that way to "protect humans" .....Most likely by request of the companies legal dept!


Another problem is that back in the early 2000's a lot of reptiles were being blinded by the reptile uv's because there were too intense, so they had to decrease the output. Uv is definitely to be used in moderation (imo kinda a less is more situation) it's also nice to try even out the uv light spread without having one powerful light.


----------



## Dr. Who (Apr 13, 2016)

DankaDank said:


> Another problem is that back in the early 2000's a lot of reptiles were being blinded by the reptile uv's because there were too intense, so they had to decrease the output. Uv is definitely to be used in moderation (imo kinda a less is more situation) it's also nice to try even out the uv light spread without having one powerful light.


And I found that out quick with the Merc vapors! Limited on time spread though out the day was needed for that....The use of light movers worked some too...
Very intrigued with the new T-5 bulbs...So much so that remembering my old results, time to try the new tech! The "intensity" of the buzz was just so damn good/intoxicating.....It was simply not worth the work on my old scale.....Now I have a nice place to play with things like that...

Nice chat Danka


----------



## bravedave (Apr 13, 2016)

@mr sunshine


----------



## mr sunshine (Apr 13, 2016)

bravedave said:


> @mr sunshine


How can I help you David?


----------



## bravedave (Apr 13, 2016)

mr sunshine said:


> How can I help you David?


I figured you would be interested in this thread as I know you are always learning.


----------



## mr sunshine (Apr 13, 2016)

bravedave said:


> I figured you would be interested in this thread as I know you are always learning.


Thank you Dave that's very thoughtful of you. Did uv light increase potency for you?


----------



## bravedave (Apr 13, 2016)

mr sunshine said:


> Thank you Dave that's very thoughtful of you. Did uv light increase potency for you?


I think so. Had a super crop. The blues certainly helped the HPS in the frost area. Broke my yield record. Had one plant foxtail a bit but just the largest cola. 
Have run a new MH this grow (just retired one with that had 5 grows on it, 3 where it was used end-to-end) that I am running till the stretch is over and then I add the t5 blues again while I am debating whether to switch in the HPS again or just leave the MH humming and see how that flys. Right now I am leaning HPS, finishing with MH the last couple weeks. Thinking of picking up the 600w "Finisher" Current canopy is best yet.
Thx 4 askin.


----------



## mr sunshine (Apr 13, 2016)

bravedave said:


> I think so. Had a super crop. The blues certainly helped the HPS in the frost area. Broke my yield record. Had one plant foxtail a bit but just the largest cola.
> Have run a new MH this grow (just retired one with that had 5 grows on it, 3 where it was used end-to-end) that I am running till the stretch is over and then I add the t5 blues again while I am debating whether to switch in the HPS again or just leave the MH humming and see how that flys. Right now I am leaning HPS, finishing with MH the last couple weeks. Thinking of picking up the 600w "Finisher" Current canopy is best yet.
> Thx 4 askin.


If you do switch, buy a De fixture....


----------



## bravedave (Apr 17, 2016)

mr sunshine said:


> If you do switch, buy a De fixture....


15 days of MH flower.


----------



## testiclees (Apr 19, 2016)

This is that same Sin Mint Cookies @ 13 days 12/12.. I'm still using the hortilux with the 3500 and 4k. Ive got a 730 (lights out) rig on my fixture. I was hoping for a quicker response to lights out and possibly a quicker flowering response.. So far it doesn't look that way. 

I plan to keep a 12/12 schedule until all plants are solidly in flower. Then, I'm gonna go 13.5-10.5 for a few weeks relying on the 730nm to extend the lights-on period a bit.

The plant flourished under this light combo. At first i overexposed the leaves because the t5 was too close. I think the damage seen in pics is too much irradiance. I backed the whole fixture off and had better success. My room is very bright. ~1200ppfd

Around week 5, I expect to switch to the Agromax UVB/A bulb.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 19, 2016)

I can't say for sure but I've noticed a difference in growth with the uva bulbs. On a side note I started my tomatoes under a spare t5 with a couple of the 10,000k +uva bulbs in it. I was able to take them from under the light and straight into direct sun with no hardening off.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 19, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I can't say for sure but I've noticed a difference in growth with the uva bulbs. On a side note I started my tomatoes under a spare t5 with a couple of the 10,000k +uva bulbs in it. I was able to take them from under the light and straight into direct sun with no hardening off.
> 
> View attachment 3660816 View attachment 3660821


That not needing to harden the plants off to sunlight is a fascinating bit of info.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 19, 2016)

testiclees said:


> This is that same Sin Mint Cookies @ 13 days 12/12.. I'm still using the hortilux with the 3500 and 4k. Ive got a 730 (lights out) rig on my fixture. I was hoping for a quicker response to lights out and possibly a quicker flowering response.. So far it doesn't look that way.
> 
> I plan to keep a 12/12 schedule until all plants are solidly in flower. Then, I'm gonna go 13.5-10.5 for a few weeks relying on the 730nm to extend the lights-on period a bit.
> 
> ...


When I see people say they run t5 within a couple of inches of the canopy they either never run a t5 and saying they have, used a one or two bulb fixture or it is not high output.

My eight bulb ho will fry some plants if I get closer than about eight inches.



ttystikk said:


> That not needing to harden the plants off to sunlight is a fascinating bit of info.


I would think the uva/uvb bulb would be better for that reason. Also that later in the year with a harsher sun I don't know. I will try with a plant or two and see the outcome.


----------



## bravedave (Apr 19, 2016)

I have left the MH running through the stretch. Seeing nice frost for < 3 weeks. Lights change tonight.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 19, 2016)

bravedave said:


> I have left the MH running through the stretch. Seeing nice frost for < 3 weeks. Lights change tonight.
> View attachment 3660998


They look good.


----------



## bravedave (Apr 20, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> They look good.


Yeah, thanks. Picture does not do it justice either. Nasty stretch this time. I flipped with them at just over 2' when usually I go 3. Figured I would sacrifice some yield but now I think yield will be comparable.


----------



## ky man (Apr 21, 2016)

bravedave said:


> I have left the MH running through the stretch. Seeing nice frost for < 3 weeks. Lights change tonight.
> View attachment 3660998


THAT WEED LOOKS GREAT MAN...KY


----------



## ky man (May 1, 2016)

bravedave said:


> I have left the MH running through the stretch. Seeing nice frost for < 3 weeks. Lights change tonight.
> View attachment 3660998


That's the kind of room I wount to grow in,BIG ROOM FULL OF PLANTS...KY


----------



## whitebb2727 (May 17, 2016)

nxsov180db said:


> When you say you fry some plants when you're closer than eight inches do you mean with the heat or the amount of light? I've ran dual 18 bulb fixtures side by side within an inch or two of the canopy but I had a fan blowing on the canopy..


It will cook them that close.


----------



## whitebb2727 (May 17, 2016)

nxsov180db said:


> When you say you fry some plants when you're closer than eight inches do you mean with the heat or the amount of light? I've ran dual 18 bulb fixtures side by side within an inch or two of the canopy but I had a fan blowing on the canopy..


T5ho? I've seen 16 bulb models. Who makes an 18? There is no way to run that many t5 bulbs that close to the plant. Two 18 bulbs would be over 1800watts. I call bull shit. There is no way to run that much power that close to them. My t5 bulbs will burn my hand.


----------



## whitebb2727 (May 18, 2016)

nxsov180db said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/t/flowering-pix-5-weeks-after-switching-to-12-12-how-are-things-looking.732086/#post-9861516
> 
> Only time I had a problem was when a cola started touching one of the t5's and I didn't notice it was getting that close. Other than that I would keep the lights within a couple inches from the canopy, but I also had an oscillating fan blowing on the canopy at all times, I don't use t5's anymore but that's what I first started growing with, I needed a/c on full blast just to keep the room 80 degrees then I went with 3 600watt cooltubes and 3 450 actual watts led and eliminated my a/c and the same room never reached 80 ever again


I looked. Yea you had a lot of lights. Those look q little further than an inch or two. About 4-5 inches. The lights are spread out further to. I'm running a fixture where the bulbs are double stacked. It concentrates the heat. If I spread them out wider I could get them closer. 

I say to do end up getting with in 4-5 inches before its over. Slowly as the plant adjust to it.


----------



## whitebb2727 (May 18, 2016)

Good looking grow though.


----------



## widowmaker31 (May 18, 2016)

walks in........been a while RIU...sits down....after a phat dab.... If you want results that are REAL take a peek.

My little Purple Rain & Black Cherry Soda at 6 weeks of flower..... with UVA & UVB.  

Enjoy!


----------

