# Soil-less Vs. Hydro



## RickWhite (Dec 5, 2009)

I have seen very good results come from soil-less mix grows and I'm wondering if hydro is really worth all the fuss when one gets into larger operations.

Soil-less is quite well aerated and must be at least as good as Rockwool - and it will support a larger root mass.

Some times I just think of buying some grow bags and a drip system and be done with it. Then of course there is always loose Rockwool if that is any better.


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## stumps (Dec 5, 2009)

I use a coco blend and am messing around with dwc. Had some problems with the dwc but once under control the plant out grew the coco in a few weeks. Keep in mind the roots grow out of the rockwool and into the water. I don't think you'll get near as much air in the coco. just my thoughts.


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## smppro (Dec 5, 2009)

Yea if you are going to use a medium make it coco


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## RickWhite (Dec 5, 2009)

I've never used coco - is it inert or does it require PH adjustments and stuff?

I have a killer hybrid DWC / ebb & flow / aerobic system in mind that will be DWC but drain away the solution so the roots hang in air for however long you choose as often as you choose. The system will give max aeration, prevent root rot and best of all, if the system fails it just falls back to a regular DWC. You would need a total power failure or for two pumps to fail for the system to go down. 

Sometimes I wonder if it is worth it though. But I guess if people have grown side by side and seen a definite difference it makes it worth it. Maybe I should get my prototype up and running.


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## stumps (Dec 5, 2009)

I'm using a tsp of garden lime per gal of coco blend. Then just run my water between 6 and 6.5.


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## smppro (Dec 6, 2009)

coco is inert and holds air so well you dont even need perlite. Ive thought about the design your talking about, have it set up like aero but just have the root zone flooded for a couple minutes every so often. Here check this guy out

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=137937


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## RickWhite (Dec 6, 2009)

smppro said:


> coco is inert and holds air so well you dont even need perlite. Ive thought about the design your talking about, have it set up like aero but just have the root zone flooded for a couple minutes every so often. Here check this guy out
> 
> http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=137937


Well, for a small setup you can just make a simple ebb & flow using a large reservoir and some large 2' X 3' cement mixing tubs from Lowe's. You cover the top with their blue Styrofoam in which you drill 3" holes and insert net pots. These tubs do need a frame.

Now you have an instant Ebb & flow / aeroponic system. The trouble with something like this when you get into a larger setup is that it requires massive amounts of water and it is hard to spread your plants out.

I'm thinking about several dozen plants with a separate vertical PVC column per plant. And the columns would be on the floor.

Prototype coming soon.


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## smppro (Dec 6, 2009)

RickWhite said:


> Well, for a small setup you can just make a simple ebb & flow using a large reservoir and some large 2' X 3' cement mixing tubs from Lowe's. You cover the top with their blue Styrofoam in which you drill 3" holes and insert net pots. These tubs do need a frame.
> 
> Now you have an instant Ebb & flow / aeroponic system. The trouble with something like this when you get into a larger setup is that it requires massive amounts of water and it is hard to spread your plants out.
> 
> ...


I use the concrete mixing tubs for ebb n flo too, they are perfect


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## GreedAndVanity (Dec 6, 2009)

Depending on the coco and how fine it was processed you still do need perlite. Even with Canna which is supposed to be semi long fiber and be fine as a stand alone I add perlite and a mild amount of some compost.

Coco is going to hold water for a while so you might as well give it better aeration.

like 99% of plant mass comes from the air, more air, more plant.


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## RickWhite (Dec 7, 2009)

The main question I am concerned with is whether more exotic hydroponic systems are that much better than coco / loose Rockwool in say 1 gal pots fed from drip emitters. My gut tells me probably not.

Now if one is doing a setup that is 64 square feet or less the more exotic systems might be great, but if one wants to fill two 12' X 12' rooms with bushes 2' across, those systems can get ridiculous.


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## GreedAndVanity (Dec 7, 2009)

Maybe it is best summed up like this. The addition of a media such as coco coir gives you the benefit of a natural root growth with the ability to give your plants exact nutrient formulas.

Within any hydro system the application of nutrients is going to be more exact over the time you are growing and has the possibility of greater over all application.

Plant growth is not nearly as dependent on nutrients and water as it is on air. The real benefit of hydro is all the extra air you are introducing to your plant. Which in turn allow it to use more nutrients etc etc.

Whether or not you yourself can manage to bring in an increased yield due to hydro is dependent on your growing skills alone. If you feel you have coco and soil down to a T and you are not happy with your harvests then that would be a good place to go to. If not you probably will have about the same results as you would with soil.

Hydro = More variables = more potential control = more potential bud.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 7, 2009)

At it's most saturated point Coco still holds near 25% air.
 
That is a great ratio.


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## stumps (Dec 7, 2009)

where do you find info like that on coco?


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## Shrubs First (Dec 7, 2009)

Horticulture 101


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## Shrubs First (Dec 7, 2009)

Coco holds around 1000 times more air than soil will,
and is a much better alternative to Sphagnum moss, being
that it is a much more sustainable resource, and comes
wthout the environmental burden of Peat mining. 

Canna Coco is the most high quality Coco product
i've used, the Botanicare Coco is extremely dirty, 
you have to flush it atleast 3 times to get a run off
of zero, it is also not fully degraded, and while
coco degrades it eats nitrogen, competing with
the plant if there is not enough, I've never had
this problem with canna, they are the shit.


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## RickWhite (Dec 7, 2009)

I'm not considering soil.

From what I have been reading, coco choir holds too much water to use alone as a hydro medium. Also, I have found studies that have shown that the loose Rockwool croûtons produced considerably better results in side by side grows.

At any rate, I'm pretty sure most would consider a drip / Rockwool system hydroponic. A lot of people get great results. I'm just wondering if a giant DWC or ebb and flow is going to be that much better that it is worth screwing around with.

In the end, I think I will go with my gut on this and go with the drip system. I've used this system before with amazing results and it is a lot less grief.


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## GreedAndVanity (Dec 7, 2009)

I would not saturate coco coir to a 75% capacity. This would mold too much ime.


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