# my defoliated vs non defoliated... pictures inside.



## ricky6991 (Mar 11, 2013)

Ok so pics deffinetly suck... but they get the point across.

First picture is just a picture of a side node showing the plants maturity. Almost done!

Second picture is a skinnier bud with red hairs everywhere showing maturity. This is also the defoliated plant. Notice hardly any white hairs and no bulges of calyxes with fresh new white hairs... this bud only had 2 new bugles of new calyxes about 6 days ago. These have already receded red and mature. Growth stopped with new calyxes. This is the main top

Third picture is of an identical plant next to it. Not defoliated. Notice all the white hairs everywhere and very little red hairs. This bud is atleast 3-4x bigger in width and has a ton of new calyxes and white hairs coming off the new growth... this bud had 8-9 noticeable bulges of new growth 6 days ago. These calyxes have gotten bigger over the past week and hairs are still majority white. This is a main top.


The plants are, both equal size (about 6ft). Both clones off same plant(pineapple express). Sealed room with co2 at 1450ppm. Humidity at 40%(just lowered to 35%). Using lucas formula(just added MOAB thats why it burnt). Hydro ebb n flow system. Today is day 1 of week 7.

First hand experience for me shows NOT to take any fan leafs... in fact, this has me nervous to even pull a fan leaf off if its big enough to block 8 plants lol.


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## ricky6991 (Mar 11, 2013)

Also, this was extremely defoliated... end of mid to end of week 4 into flowering... EVERY fan leaf was taken off everywhere so light could get in. If you read "defoliating" is ment to take off ALL fan leafs. So dont say your not supposed to yada yada... it says very clear when defoliating you remove ALL fan leafs cause they are not need cause roots are already grown and bring food to the bud.

Please do not argue about pruning vs defoliating ect... this is just to show what defolaiting does. Its gets light to every bud site and makes it look like there is ton of weed on it... at the exspense of buds not growing much more. Rather look at a bush and when trimmed i see all fat colas.


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## Alexander Supertramp (Mar 11, 2013)

Thanks for sharing your experience. And good for you being wise enough to see past the illusion. Nice looking buds also...keep em green


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## ricky6991 (Mar 11, 2013)

Its funny actually now that i look at it... the first picture is a lower node that grew outward enough to receive light on whole branch. Its just about same size as the top on the defoliated plant... you know there is issue when a plant with 12 -14 nodes and the lower node is same size top as the main top on another plant.


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## Alexander Supertramp (Mar 11, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> Its funny actually now that i look at it... the first picture is a lower node that grew outward enough to receive light on whole branch. Its just about same size as the top on the defoliated plant... you know there is issue when a plant with 12 -14 nodes and the lower node is same size top as the main top on another plant.


Thats called a healthy plant with good auxin distribution. The very first true node can be very stubborn and rarely reaches the level of the rest of the nodes less the main. But when you get the second node almost dominating the nodes above and between it and the main. Your doing things right in your garden. Just the way nature meant it too be.......


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## Username42 (Mar 11, 2013)

ghey ghey ghey ghey ghey


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## ricky6991 (Mar 11, 2013)

Only stating whats been posted in a write up that has been copy and pasted in ALMOST EVERY defoliating post to be used as example of why it works...

Anyways, yes not woant any arguments cause im not here to state why it should work and what it does...

My post is simple. It was done on one plant based on almost every post talking about how defoliating is done. I had a replica plant next to it which wasnt defoliated... non defoliated one has lowest node top being same size as the top to main defoliated top... the top to non defoliated plant is 3-4 times as WIDE. Meaning thick... everyone can take it how they want it.


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## Alexander Supertramp (Mar 11, 2013)

Username42 said:


> defoliation in weed growing terms does not mean "removing all the fan leaves because food is in the roots". Madness. defoliation is built up gradually with the aim of letting light through to the buds, all other leaves are left as they are because it is the leaves than contain the 'food'. asking us not to argue after stating something so ridiculous and controversial is just stupid.


So what you are saying is buds need light so they can photosynthesis and get fatter?
And his original post is far from ridiculous. Pretty damn good example in my book of why not too do it......


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## Alexander Supertramp (Mar 11, 2013)

Username42 said:


> defoliation in weed growing terms does not mean "removing all the fan leaves because food is in the roots". Madness. defoliation is built up gradually with the aim of letting light through to the buds, all other leaves are left as they are because it is the leaves than contain the 'food'. asking us not to argue after stating something so ridiculous and controversial is just stupid.


This is either Bud Brewer or Sir.ganga, time will tell which it is...
I would just ignore this member for now Rick....


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## elkukupanda (Mar 11, 2013)

This is the reason why we bash the defoliation topic so much. Another victim of irresponsibles all-knowing noobs. Keep the leaves on!


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## Alexander Supertramp (Mar 11, 2013)

elkukupanda said:


> This is the reason why we bash the defoliation topic so much. Another victim of irresponsibles all-knowing noobs. Keep the leaves on!


Pay attention as he is not a victim. Contrary he is just sharing a real grow experience. And something tangible also IMO.


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## elkukupanda (Mar 11, 2013)

I'm referring to the fact of trying defoliation out... goes against any common sense and advances in science. It has already been proved that leaves are basic units for the proper function of a plant. There is no need for experimentation when it comes to this... It has been done.. That's how they are able to understand so much about leaves.. Thank you rick for sharing your experience


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## Fruitbat (Mar 11, 2013)

I like that you actually did a side by side. Good on you man. 

Maybe if folks look at it this way - Roots are like a gas tank, they take up water and nutes. Leaves are like the spark plugs, they convert sunlight into energy. Both work together to create a finely tuned engine. 

We don't remove spark plugs from our cars to make them go faster. To tune an engine we address the whole thing; air intake, fuel/air mix in the combustion chamber and how fast we can get the burnt fuel out (there are a few other things but you get the idea).

Same thing with weed; we have to address the ENTIRE plant as a whole to be successful.


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## ricky6991 (Mar 11, 2013)

I actually work on cars so i get your analogy lol... works pretty well...

Also, i didnt purposly do a side by side. A buddy read on it and seen pics of huge buds from an old post and defoliated 2 out of 12 of plants. So i had already made post awhile ago and everyone started arguing and mods locked it...

So this is just showing without the fan leafs. (Yes even couple of em) the buds do not grow the extra calyxes therefore do not gain thickness... the origional buds may get bigger but thats just the calyxes swollen and then jus makes big fluffy bud. Rather have alot of calyxes swell last 2 weeks then few calxes swell early equaling in less wieght.... the statement is just my opinion of what took place.

I will say now in hydro the growth is more noticeable and its crazy to see the extra calyxes grow out of the bud or branch whatever. When in soil i just seen thicker buds over time. Now i noticed afew new calyxes pop up and then couple days later the entire bud is overall covered in white hairs and new calyxes making buds bigger overall.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 11, 2013)

Username42 said:


> Madness. defoliation is built up gradually with the aim of letting light through to the buds,....... asking us not to argue after stating something so ridiculous and controversial is just stupid.


Believing buds need light to develop is what's stupid.


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## EvlMunkee (Mar 11, 2013)

Thanks. Good job man. Short and sweet, now I don't have to read 300 pages of arguing about it


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## Alexander Supertramp (Mar 11, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> Believing buds need light to develop is what's stupid.









Yep...


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## Username42 (Mar 11, 2013)

How to defoliate and why not to remove all the leaves is detailed.


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## Username42 (Mar 11, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> Believing buds need light to develop is what's stupid.


Buds photosynthesise light in order to grow, they are green and full of chlorophyll just like the leaves. If you don't believe me stick a cardboard box over your main cola and see how far you get.


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## botanistjjj (Mar 11, 2013)

elkukupanda said:


> I'm referring to the fact of trying defoliation out... goes against any common sense and advances in science. It has already been proved that leaves are basic units for the proper function of a plant. There is no need for experimentation when it comes to this... It has been done.. That's how they are able to understand so much about leaves.. Thank you rick for sharing your experience


stems are also a vital part of the plant, but some brave soul cut the top leaves/stem off in the name of science to bring us what we know as topping today....


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## elkukupanda (Mar 11, 2013)

botanistjjj said:


> stems are also a vital part of the plant, but some brave soul cut the top leaves/stem off in the name of science to bring us what we know as topping today....


Man, i'm not going to pretend something i'm not... I'm not a gardener.. I'm not a botanist... i'm just a can grower... That's right.. who doesn't love heroes... brave souls.. i do.. they do all the job and people who observe get the rewards.. i don't see any gardener or well seasoned farmer defoliating plants to increase yield... You know who i see? noobs... only noobs do defoliation... Has it been done already by a farmer? I'm sure it was.. I guess that's why is not a common practice with other plants... Yes, you are right.. science can be proven wrong.. Hell, if Darwin, Einstein and Tesla were proved wrong in certain details i'm not sure who else can't be... yah.. nobody is perfect.. but common... be fair... You know how easy is to remove a leaf? nobody growing before had the idea of giving a bald look to the plant? It's just sad to see new people growing with CFL failing in their first grow and giving up... Therefore i stand by the motto "KEEP THE LEAVES ON"


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## Fruitbat (Mar 11, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> I actually work on cars so i get your analogy lol... works pretty well....


I spent many years wrenching old Alfa Romeos. 

I already used the solar panel analogy so I was trying to think of something else. It works for the most part.


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## Apomixis (Mar 11, 2013)

Username42 said:


> defoliation in weed growing terms does not mean "removing all the fan leaves because food is in the roots". Madness. defoliation is built up gradually with the aim of letting light through to the buds, all other leaves are left as they are because it is the leaves than contain the 'food'. asking us not to argue after stating something so ridiculous and controversial is just stupid.


Once again, WHY DO BUDS NEED LIGHT TO DEVELOP PROPERLY? 
Answer: THEY FUCKING DONT.
What you mean is to expose _axillary bud sites_ to light. "Bud site" in no way infers _anything_ to do with flowers. 
Its a unique aspect of the MJ culture that we have co-opted the term "bud" from its true, morphological definition to that which refers to a mature MJ flower. All flowers come from buds, but not all buds become flowers. 
I've heard other people say that buds -flowers- have little leaves that photosynthesize just fine. Reminds me of Greg Berhends joke about fun size candy bars... How about we fun size your paycheck? Yeah, look, it's a third of what you normally make! Isn't it fun? Same goes for your leaves, "bud".

*Say what you mean, be precise, communicate accurately. *


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## Username42 (Mar 12, 2013)

all bud sites that get light become flowers


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## Alexander Supertramp (Mar 12, 2013)

Username42 said:


> I don't defoliate that often, but with bushy mother plants it is essential to maintain healthy growth.
> 
> How to defoliate and why not to remove all the leaves is detailed


That article is a joke. No proof what so ever. Only a guy named keef treez opinion with zero substance.


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## Alexander Supertramp (Mar 12, 2013)

Username42 said:


> Buds photosynthesise light in order to grow, they are green and full of chlorophyll just like the leaves. If you don't believe me stick a cardboard box over your main cola and see how far you get.


Proof you like keef treez dont know your ass from a hole in the ground.


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## ricky6991 (Mar 12, 2013)

SOk, THIS IS EXACTLY THE THREAD I TALKED ABOUT ABOVE. EVERYONE USES THIS ONE THREAD TO EXPLAIN WHY IT SHOULD BE DONE. As you can see it says clear as day REMOVE ALL FAN LEAFS. Not some. Therefore, defoliating means to remove all fan leafs. If you dont agree defoliating means that then DO NOT copy an paste this post to prove your point. As everyone does cause THIS IS ONLY post EVERYONE uses.


1.) Which Fan Leaves Can Be Plucked?
All of them.
That was the short answer.
I remove everything that is easily pinched off with the thumbnail and forefinger......

Go into other posts where the original poster replys to comments, his LONG ANSWER to why all leafs get plucked is because they grew the roots already and roots will feed buds directly.

...........

Leaf removal stimulates lower and mid bud growth by exposing those normally shaded out areas to premium light.....

seriously? First hand experience for me showed this to be 100% wrong. The bud with the leafs grew fatter. Buds without leafs that had more light did not. They just matured and hairs turned red.

.............................
Again, where it states -

Start with removing the fans from all the branches and watch the results....

I watched results and it stunted growth for 9 days then i watched buds with leafs grow tons of fresh calyxes and watched buds without leafs turn red


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## ricky6991 (Mar 12, 2013)

That post is the reason why my 2 plants got defoliated... that last picture of the bud sitting on scrog screen had my friend excited...

Also let me add one more thing... it says to defoliate and watch new growth... i will take picture today to show you my new fan leaf growth 2-3weeks later... oh wait, there is NONE. Still just sugar leafs and couple sugar leafs that grew alittle bigger.


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## Username42 (Mar 12, 2013)

ghey ghey ghey ghey ghey


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 12, 2013)

Username42 said:


> the article states which leaves can be plucked, all of them. The article does not suggest that all leaves should be plucked at the same time.


It's about as dumb as a box of hammers.


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## blacksun (Mar 12, 2013)

Anyone who has tried defoliation for themselves knows that the pictures in that article that say "4 days later" where the plant goes from no bud to full of bud are clearly falsified.

In veg, chopping off all fan leaves makes a plant take twice as long to get to the same size as leaving all the fan leaves intact. 

In flower, chopping off all fan leaves greatly reduces yields.

This happens because of both the stress of hacking at the plant and the plant losing it's "solar panels".



The more posts I read from the guys who support it, the more "defoliation" definitely seems like a troll tactic, getting dummies to chop off all their fan leaves, ruining their plant(s). 

And the guys who are against defoliation all seem to have tried it for themselves and come to the same realization.



Also, after skimming parts of that article and very easily spotting blatant spelling mistakes, arguments that consist of quotes from fictitious growers the writer "has spoken to", and then reading the "about the author", it seems like that article was written by icmag's version of finshaggy.

That's not a good thing.


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## Username42 (Mar 12, 2013)

never mind i see that the article has been posted many times before, and this thread was all a set up by little kids wanting to look all special. y'all sure look special now.


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## blacksun (Mar 12, 2013)

Username42 said:


> never mind i see that the article has been posted many times before, and this thread was all a set up by little kids wanting to look all special. y'all sure look special now.




The people who took you slightly seriously definitely look special. I agree.


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## ricky6991 (Mar 12, 2013)

Ok pic with a light turned on. Helps show better... top is from bud with fan leafs. Shows all new calyxes an clear asr day thickness... other picture is of defoliated plant which still do not have fan leaves like supposed to according to that post.

Again my defoliated plant looks like big buds cause they are good size but not as thick as other plant.


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## Username42 (Mar 12, 2013)

lets see the whole plant that was left with leaves on. The idea of removing leaves is supposed to help lower buds, not the top bud, without seeing the whole plant we can't see total yield


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## prosperian (Mar 12, 2013)

rep bump. nice job ricky


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## ricky6991 (Mar 12, 2013)

Id rather have all my top buds grow and gain extra oz or 2 in wieght then have an extra half oz from popcorn nugs being denser.

Denser top nugs > denser popcorn nugs


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## Apomixis (Mar 12, 2013)

Username42 said:


> all bud sites that get light become flowers


Now you're talking some sense! I know you typed that in rebuttal, like what I said was redundant, but it makes the difference between people plucking leaves off during veg or flower. Big difference, no?


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## Username42 (Mar 12, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> Id rather have all my top buds grow and gain extra oz or 2 in wieght then have an extra half oz from popcorn nugs being denser.
> 
> Denser top nugs > denser popcorn nugs


photos please.


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## Username42 (Mar 12, 2013)

Apomixis said:


> Now you're talking some sense! I know you typed that in rebuttal, like what I said was redundant, but it makes the difference between people plucking leaves off during veg or flower. Big difference, no?


bud sites can be exposed to light at any time the grower chooses


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## ricky6991 (Mar 12, 2013)

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/625261-my-pineapple-express-6k-watt.html

Plenty of pictures on there... its hard to get pictures cause in darkness an flash its blurry and only time light doesnt have the black lines in picture is just just when they turn on... im not hiding anything and not one of the hardcore people involved in this debate. Just someone who was affected by the defoliation post and all it promised. Then to end up with less of a return and less growth. Therefore, im just making post with proof of my experience so other people who consider this find another thread with pictures as to why they shouldnt rather than bunch of people rambling for 53pages.

People who research now will have a why they should and why they shouldnt with pictures and they can make a decision based off visual evidence.


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## Username42 (Mar 12, 2013)

all plants have completely bare stems.


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## Fruitbat (Mar 12, 2013)

In an effort to run faster I going to chop off a leg. In an effort to improve my cardio I'm going to remove a lung. In an effort to improve my boxing I'm going to cut off an arm. In an effort to speed up my computer I'm going to remove RAM.


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## ricky6991 (Mar 12, 2013)

Yes they are 6ft tall. Clearly they are lollipoped. What is the point? Pointless to have all bottom nodes hitting each other an causing humity problems ect... is this what happens when someone post there experience and clearly states its just to show experience not which is right for another person.

Mods lock this thread if you want. Shit is retarded... i post based off EXPERIENCE an show pictures and myOPINION. No need to pick my entire grow apart over the dumbest shit. Just accept the defoliation thing did not work for me and i showed why. If it works for you great but i dont see how when i have very controlled enviroment and matchin plants... either way, idc.


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## prosperian (Mar 12, 2013)

You're just being trolled. Thanks for taking the time to share your experience with us.


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## CyberSmoke (Mar 12, 2013)

Why you would cut off natures solar panels is beyond me what is the first thing that pops up out of the earth..a stem withA SOLAR PANEL attached to it..why so it can grow...more leaves , haahaa i say let them cut them off , its there lesser plant..hope they enjoy


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 12, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/625261-my-pineapple-express-6k-watt.htmlJust someone who was affected by the defoliation post and all it promised. Then to end up with less of a return and less growth.


Bottom line? You set yourself up for a forum sucker punch because you did not bother to research what makes a plant tick. Like many, you had to learn the hard way. We appreciate your post, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that if you were a seasoned gardener, this (defoliation) drill wouldn't even be a consideration on your part. If you wanted to play with it, fine, now you know. Still recommend a book on plant culture.

And just in case it comes up, you'll find very few members here who understand botany, nor will they take the time. Here's a perfect example. I spoon feed this kid (post #20) with some solid advice and excellent links and look at his response. He deserves to fail, and he will. https://www.rollitup.org/nutrients/451962-best-npk-ratio-veg-flower.html

Good luck,
UB


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## akula (Mar 12, 2013)

Alexander Supertramp said:


> That article is a joke. No proof what so ever. Only a guy named keef treez opinion with zero substance.


The Grow Weed Easy site is a flat out joke. The guy/girl that runs it is a scab and its stock full of "internet weed growing" myths. Anybody that uses it as a reference should be automatically outed as a hack and their argument disregarded. OK well maybe not all that, but the *damn site does include a section on flavoring your weed with Kool-Aide* and I think that is all you need to know. Hack-hack-hack.


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## elkukupanda (Mar 12, 2013)

akula said:


> The Grow Weed Easy site is a flat out joke. The guy/girl that runs it is a scab and its stock full of "internet weed growing" myths. Anybody that uses it as a reference should be automatically outed as a hack and their argument disregarded. OK well maybe not all that, but the *damn site does include a section on flavoring your weed with Kool-Aide* and I think that is all you need to know. Hack-hack-hack.


Lol, kook-aid.. That's pretty retro... Someone should message the web admin and update him with MiO


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## Apomixis (Mar 13, 2013)

Username42 said:


> all plants have completely bare stems.


What does this mean?


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## Vincent VonBlown (Mar 13, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> Believing buds need light to develop is what's stupid.



That's a very interesting statement Uncle Ben.

Have you ever tried this experiment?

Take a female cannabis plant, one of fair size. A sativa would probably work best.

Let's take it say 3 or 4 weeks into flowering.

Now what we do is, set our light source at a low height, so it only shines on the bottom of the plant. You may have even experienced this growing exotic sativas, where they get to tall.

Now we don't take any leaf off. But we just watch what happens to the upper cone, and the lower buds, as the plant reaches full maturity. The top gets little or no light, the bottom buds get it all...

What do you think will happen.

(I know I said I wasn't going to comment anymore on defoliating, but I just happened to think of this^ and was curios)


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## Vincent VonBlown (Mar 13, 2013)

Now, what I always do, when a plant gets to tall indoors, is bend or break it over. And the reason for that is so the top buds will get light. As it seems like they don't do as well without it.

Now of course I've never bothered to actually grow a plant all the way with the top cone getting little or no light. so I can't say anything for sure on that. But I find it a interesting question...


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## ricky6991 (Mar 13, 2013)

Edited... deleted. Rather not have people go back and forth over what i said lol. Plenty other people smarter than myself on here.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 13, 2013)

Vincent VonBlown said:


> Now, what I always do, when a plant gets to tall indoors, is bend or break it over. And the reason for that is so the top buds will get light. As it seems like they don't do as well without it.


That is simply not true as witnessed during outdoor growing and my knowledge of plant processes. Sorry, but like it's been said a million times by me and others that understand botany, buds do not conduct any appreciable amount of photosynthesis. Not gonna beat this dead horse again....I explained the science a few times in other threads.

READ the other threads.

UB


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 13, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> You get big buds from most lumens.


No you don't. That's another forum myth.

All things considered (abundant foliage, roots, good culture, etc.) you get the most production learning what a plant's light saturation point is and staying just under it as much as possible. See my link regarding Moisture Stress, Light, and read this:
http://www.marietta.edu/~spilatrs/biol103/photolab/saturati.html


UB


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## akula (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> Don't believe everything you see posted. Do the research yourself and then decide.
> 
> Here's the link they have about flavor curing: http://www.growweedeasy.com/how-to-make-flavored-marijuana
> 
> ...


You can't even read to save your life. The dude talks about pouring in citrus and berry flavors at the end of flowering to get flavored weed. You'd argue anything I post, you're just too ignorant to do it correctly. 



> Step Two: Create your Flavor/Aroma Water Mixture.You create a mixture of water and whatever flavor you're adding. I like vanilla extract, root beer extract, citrus flavors like lemon, orange, lime... Some like chocolate, banana, blueberry, strawberry, etc. Feel free to get creative, especially if you're growing lots of small plants and can experiement. Make sure to stir the mixture well. How much flavor/essence do you add? It's really hard to say what will work for you in your individual situation. As a general frame of reference, I've done a tablespoon of extract to five gallons of water to get good results. The resulting scent/flavor is subtle but recognizable. You may want to add more or less extract to satisfy your tastes.
> 
> Step Three: Water your cannabis with the mixture and let plants sit for 3-4 hours to soak up the water. You basically want the thirsty plant to drink all the water and become infused with the mixture. A thirsty plant will drink much faster than one which has been recently watered.



So what is water and fruity flavoring you might ask? Yep thats Kool-Aide you brainiac puppy. Hows the trolling working out for you genius? 


Or maybe that's just your site and you are buthurt for being ousted as a hack.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 13, 2013)

If one just has to jack with their weed, then an apple slice or citrus peel in with the baggie worked decades ago for me and my buddies.

UB


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## thatboyis1uvakind (Mar 13, 2013)

I used to defoliate to expose bud sites...til I noticed I yeiled more off plants I didn't do that too....noticed bud under canopy on a healthy plant were just fine....I don't trim like that anymore...I thin the plant out for airflow but that's it....the less u hack away at ur plant the more it will yield in the end....its a true story


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## Guitar Man (Mar 13, 2013)

I did not grow these plants with the idea of defending whether or not to defoil, but guess what, the pictures do prove a solid point: DON'T FUCKING DEFOIL!

The plant on the left was grown the last 3 months of 2012, and both plants are the exact same strain. Not knowing that she would stretch as much as she would, after 4 weeks of flowering the plant on the left was over 5 feet tall. So, I had no choice but to hack the shit out of her. Below what you see, there are no fan leaves or bud sites; I cut them all off because of her stretch and I had over-crowded this grow with 3 plants.

The plant on the right is an entirely different story, which is growing as we speak (took this picture yesterday). Knowing what I was up against with the last stretch, I knew I had to find another way to grow this strain. That's when I discovered Uncle Bens topping technique, which would utilize my space and keep my plant at a height I could handle. I haven't cut 1 fan leaf off of this plant, and I have left everything in tact, with the exception of the top I did during veg.

The bud size and development isn't even close in comparison. This current plant will probably have a ten fold difference in yield than the last plant, and the size difference in the buds is beyond debate.

Both of these plants are at the exact same flowering stage.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

akula said:


> You can't even read to save your life. The dude talks about pouring in citrus and berry flavors at the end of flowering to get flavored weed. You'd argue anything I post, you're just too ignorant to do it correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol, no it's not my site nor do I follow those practices. I simply seek the truth, which you did not post. You attempted to defame the site with misinformation. That is not what I would call seeking the truth. Enjoy your bubble.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

Guitar Man said:


> View attachment 2567042View attachment 2567040
> 
> I did not grow these plants with the idea of defending whether or not to defoil, but guess what, the pictures do prove a solid point: DON'T FUCKING DEFOIL!
> 
> ...


Too bad your post is meaningless since they were grown at different times and in different conditions. I sure would hope your second grow was better than the first. Unfortunately unless you do a side by side test of a cloned strain the results will always be meaningless.


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## akula (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> Lol, no it's not my site nor do I follow those practices. I simply seek the truth, which you did not post. You attempted to defame the site with misinformation. That is not what I would call seeking the truth. Enjoy your bubble.


You know I have seen a lot of posters here on this site mock and ridicule you for you lack of intelligence and honestly don't know if its just an act or if you are really a very simpleton or buffoon. Since I actually took the time to post the part where the site describes the techniques they recommend for making "flavored weed" that has nothing to do with flavoring it while curing, I am going to have to assume you read it. And if I assume you read it, and still post that I "attempted to defame the site with misinformation" I have to make one of two conclusions about your intellect level: 

1. You are not intelligent enough to understand that kool aide is flavored water and flavored water is exactly what kool aide is. 

or 

2. You believe feeding your plants flavored water is a perfectly legitimate technique to flavor your weed as long as that flavored water is not flavored by the Kool-Aid brand name. Which makes you both a hack and an idiot. 

So which one is it?


Edit: BTW The site is shit and full of shitty information. And the owner is a scrub.


----------



## Username42 (Mar 13, 2013)

or 

3. akula has been rumbled

I hate misrepresentation


----------



## Username42 (Mar 13, 2013)

Apomixis said:


> What does this mean?


ask ricky?


----------



## akula (Mar 13, 2013)

Username42 said:


> or
> 
> 3. akula has been rumbled



You are right. I like to feed the trolls. It makes me happy to watch them in their natural environment.



Username42 said:


> or
> 
> 3. akula has been rumbled
> 
> *I hate misrepresentation*


LOL add 1 more to the troll list. This site is like a damn magnet for them.


----------



## 3 Pounds of Weeden (Mar 13, 2013)

Username42 said:


> ghey ghey ghey ghey ghey


----------



## DrKingGreen (Mar 13, 2013)

I don't know about you guys, but I use this amazing shit that reflects light. It reflects light all over including to the bottom of the plant and as for those lower fan leaves... I can see them in the room, therefore there is light getting to that area. Maybe not as much light as the top of the plant, but the leaves sure look green and sure seem to be doing some sort of photosynthesis. I wandered down this road when I started my first grow (the one I'm doing now). Ben told me I'm an idiot if I defoliate, and then I went out to see if he was providing facts by reading as much as I can... Guess what? After doing solid research on how plants function, I found that if you defoliate, you are an idiot. It's pretty simple. Defoliate = Idiot or uninformed (blame yourself, you can obviously read) Leave it alone = Proper plant function and growth... You're so smart!


----------



## ricky6991 (Mar 13, 2013)

Username- what are you asking about?

My plants are lollipoped. Has nothing to do with defoliating.. i lollipoped cause lower branches were more than 4ft from the lights and would rather not worry about airflow and humidity each plant for little gain off them.


----------



## ricky6991 (Mar 13, 2013)

This post is beginning its rambling stage where people start to argue about stuff that doesnt have to do with my thread... mods will lock it just like the last one. Thats why i tried to get my point across in the very first post so people get the point before they decide to exit out of screen from all the nonsense


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

akula said:


> You know I have seen a lot of posters here on this site mock and ridicule you for you lack of intelligence


Really, lots? In reality, only a half dozen of so users here regularly bash me by using terms like idiot or "shit'fer'brains". They are folks like UB, AS, or yourself who insult me as a reactionary measure when I either correct their error or question their "facts". I understand why they do it, it's a normal human reaction. However that doesn't make them right -- it only makes them reactionary.


akula said:


> Since I actually took the time to post the part where the site describes the techniques they recommend for making "flavored weed" that has nothing to do with flavoring it while curing, I am going to have to assume you read it. And if I assume you read it, and still post that I "attempted to defame the site with misinformation" I have to make one of two conclusions about your intellect level:
> 
> 1. You are not intelligent enough to understand that kool aide is flavored water and flavored water is exactly what kool aide is.
> 
> ...


I'd say it's number three. Kool-Aid is not the same as flavored water. It's much different. It's mostly citric acid and a bunch of chemicals. I don't know how that's so confusing to you.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

> *
> 
> Step Two: Create your Flavor/Aroma Water Mixture.You create a mixture of water and whatever flavor you're adding. I like vanilla extract, root beer extract, citrus flavors like lemon, orange, lime... Some like chocolate, banana, blueberry, strawberry, etc. Feel free to get creative, especially if you're growing lots of small plants and can experiement. Make sure to stir the mixture well. How much flavor/essence do you add? It's really hard to say what will work for you in your individual situation. As a general frame of reference, I've done a tablespoon of extract to five gallons of water to get good results. The resulting scent/flavor is subtle but recognizable. You may want to add more or less extract to satisfy your tastes.
> 
> ...





akula said:


> So what is water and fruity flavoring you might ask? Yep thats Kool-Aide you brainiac puppy. Hows the trolling working out for you genius?


What you cut and pasted clearly discusses extracts (ie: vanilla extract or root beer extract). That is not the same as kool-aid. Sorry.

http://www.zatarains.com/Products/Spices-and-Extracts/Root Beer Extract.aspx

*Ingredients:
CARAMEL COLOR, WATER, IMITATION VANILLA, ALCOHOL, METHYL SALICYLATE U.S.P., IMITATION SASSAFRAS FLAVOR, OIL OF SPRUCE, OIL OF SWEET BIRCH U.S.P.


*&#8203;For the record, I don't flavor my weed.


----------



## akula (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> I'd say it's number three. *Kool-Aid is not the same as flavored water. It's much different.* It's mostly citric acid and a bunch of chemicals. I don't know how that's so confusing to you.









Im out. Enough stupid for today.


----------



## elkukupanda (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> Don't believe everything you see posted. Do the research yourself and then decide.
> 
> Here's the link they have about flavor curing: http://www.growweedeasy.com/how-to-make-flavored-marijuana
> 
> ...


Slow person alert.

Look, this is what your buddy wrote before all that BS and is exactly where i stopped reading.. RIGHT AWAY.. 
Beware the following is a perfect example of a pothead catch lines..

*"I personally do not recommend using any flavor-weed-after-harvest methods* because they all seem like they are just going to cause mold. I've lost parts of crops to mold before.The thought of adding something like an orange rind to my buds while curing sends of danger signals in my brain. I personally love the taste/smell/flavor of cannabis in its natural state and I would much rather experience that and not risk losing a crop to mold." http://www.growweedeasy.com/how-to-make-flavored-marijuana

Seriously? He hasn't even mastered this yet he is giving so much BS explanation and information about it?

Anyways, he might create a section for odored weed.. Stay tuned Diaz.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

elkukupanda said:


> Slow person alert.
> 
> Look, this is what your buddy wrote before all that BS and is exactly where i stopped reading.. RIGHT AWAY..
> Beware the following is a perfect example of a pothead catch lines..
> ...


Who says he was my buddy? In fact I said I don't do what he does. Are YOU slow? 
Got any pics of your first harvest yet?


----------



## elkukupanda (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> Who says he was my buddy? In fact I said I don't do what he does. Are YOU slow?
> Got any pics of your first harvest yet?


lol, you are the one defending someone who post something where he clearly says he is unable to consistently flavour his crop without causing mould. i'm sorry for personalizing your important response... i guess you just like to talk shit... as for my first grow.. it was great.. pics? just google "good white widow harvest" i'm sure it will suffice such a gullible person as yourself


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

elkukupanda said:


> lol, you are the one defending someone who post something where he clearly says he is unable to consistently flavour his crop without causing mould. i'm sorry for personalizing your important response... i guess you just like to talk shit... as for my first grow.. it was great.. pics? just google "good white widow harvest" i'm sure it will suffice such a gullible person as yourself


Where did I defend him? I guess I missed that part, Lol. You make no sense.


----------



## Guitar Man (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> Too bad your post is meaningless since they were grown at different times and in different conditions. I sure would hope your second grow was better than the first. Unfortunately unless you do a side by side test of a cloned strain the results will always be meaningless.


I agree with some of your analysis, but some of what I said is tried and true. The plant with the least amount of fan leaves produced the least amount of bud activity, period. You can slice it, dice it, and disagree with it, but that's what happened between these 2 plants. Even if I grew clones side by side, I would still have separate challenges that could alter 1 of the plants, making the test a faulted one. No two plants are the exact same, and no two grows are the exact same.

On the first grow and the plant I had to hack, the only 2 things I did was top her and remove the lower fan leaves. The top took off 12", leaving 4', then I took the lower 2' of fan leaves off because they wouldn't receive any light as my closet was crowded. The entire canopy was bathed in light after the cut, and was virtually unaffected by the trimming I did. She then went on to flower for another 5 weeks, and the bud sizes that were left on this cut plant were no different than the bud sizes I had on the my current grow.

So, my post was not meaningless, and if you want, I'll pick apart your side by side clone test, and I promise, I will find problems and reasons why your test was not accurate and that your statement, "unless you do a side by side test of a cloned strain the results will ALWAYS be meaningless" is bullshit.


----------



## akula (Mar 13, 2013)

elkukupanda said:


> lol, you are the one defending someone who post something where he clearly says he is unable to consistently flavour his crop without causing mould. i'm sorry for personalizing your important response... i guess you just like to talk shit... as for my first grow.. it was great.. pics? just google "good white widow harvest" i'm sure it will suffice such a gullible person as yourself


He is trying to goad you into reacting to his insulting dribble so he can go run to a modd and cry and stomp his feet. It's what happened in the other thread because they were hopping to ban opposing views, but it backfired. Now the same tactic is being used here. I mean it's not really normal to argue that kool aid is nothing like flavored water......but with trolls it is. Think about how derailed threads get when they enter in.


----------



## elkukupanda (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> Where did I defend him? I guess I missed that part, Lol. You make no sense.


Lol once again, I know you have troubles defining all that bs that you type.. here:

*"Don't believe everything you see posted. Do the research yourself and then decide.

Here's the link they have about flavor curing: http://www.growweedeasy.com/how-to-m...ored-marijuana

You can use to simple find tool and discover nothing about kool-aid. 

It talks about orange curing and lemon verbena curing and some crap like that." 


*You clearly defend the article of my mock by giving some useful tips... which are appreciated...  Anyways, do not go deleting your post like last time..


----------



## elkukupanda (Mar 13, 2013)

akula said:


> He is trying to goad you into reacting to his insulting dribble so he can go run to a modd and cry and stomp his feet. It's what happened in the other thread because they were hopping to ban opposing views, but it backfired. Now the same tactic is being used here. I mean it's not really normal to argue that kool aid is nothing like flavored water......but with trolls it is. Think about how derailed threads get when they enter in.


I know what this farce is about ... another pot head trying to be like UB


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

You clearly need to brush up on your reading comprehension. I did not defend the article. I only clarified what the site actually said. Fact. All I did was correct misinformation. That is very different than defending the theory. Perhaps you need more school.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

Guitar Man said:


> I agree with some of your analysis, but some of what I said is tried and true. The plant with the least amount of fan leaves produced the least amount of bud activity, period. You can slice it, dice it, and disagree with it, but that's what happened between these 2 plants. Even if I grew clones side by side, I would still have separate challenges that could alter 1 of the plants, making the test a faulted one. No two plants are the exact same, and no two grows are the exact same.
> 
> On the first grow and the plant I had to hack, the only 2 things I did was top her and remove the lower fan leaves. The top took off 12", leaving 4', then I took the lower 2' of fan leaves off because they wouldn't receive any light as my closet was crowded. The entire canopy was bathed in light after the cut, and was virtually unaffected by the trimming I did. She then went on to flower for another 5 weeks, and the bud sizes that were left on this cut plant were no different than the bud sizes I had on the my current grow.
> 
> So, my post was not meaningless, and if you want, I'll pick apart your side by side clone test, and I promise, I will find problems and reasons why your test was not accurate and that your statement, "unless you do a side by side test of a cloned strain the results will ALWAYS be meaningless" is bullshit.


I did a side by side test for myself already. I've already posted pics. In my case yield was the same with no defoliation as it was with moderate defoliation. Those are my results. That's not to say I support defoliation in every case so please don't put words in my mouth like others seem to do.


----------



## akula (Mar 13, 2013)

Guitar Man said:


> So, my post was not meaningless, and if you want, I'll pick apart your side by side clone test, and I promise, I will find problems and reasons why your test was not accurate and that your statement, "unless you do a side by side test of a cloned strain the results will ALWAYS be meaningless" is bullshit.


Right now I'm growing a mother right next to her own clone. The mother is the queen of defoliation in veg. Now granted I never defoliated in flower, but guess which one started off first and more robust and currently fuller and healthier? Yep my results will also get the meaningless tag.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

akula said:


> He is trying to goad you into reacting to his insulting dribble so he can go run to a modd and cry and stomp his feet. It's what happened in the other thread because they were hopping to ban opposing views, but it backfired. Now the same tactic is being used here. I mean it's not really normal to argue that kool aid is nothing like flavored water......but with trolls it is. Think about how derailed threads get when they enter in.


I guess you got it all figured out already so trying to have a conversation with you seems fairly pointless.


----------



## elkukupanda (Mar 13, 2013)

LOL, let me take you back to grade school.. Here let me educate you once again..

*Definition of DEFEND*

transitive verb

1

_a_ *:* to drive danger or attack away from 
_b _ _(1)_ *:* to maintain or support in the face of argument or hostile criticism <_defend_ a theory> _(2)_ *:* to prove (as a doctoral thesis) valid by answering questions in an oral exam 
_c_ *:* to attempt to prevent an opponent from scoring at <elects to _defend_ the south goal> 



here is a multiple choice for you... let me make it easy for ya... and you are under.... B)

Winner winner illiterate b3an3r


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

akula said:


> Right now I'm growing a mother right next to her own clone. The mother is the queen of defoliation in veg. Now granted I never defoliated in flower, but guess which one started off first and more robust and currently fuller and healthier? Yep my results will also get the meaningless tag.


you're comparing a mother to a clone?


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

elkukupanda said:


> LOL, let me take you back to grade school.. Here let me educate you once again..
> 
> *Definition of DEFEND*
> 
> ...


again, I didn't support the theory. All I did was clarify that the article didn't mention kool aid. Why is that so confusing to you? Again, reading comprehension is key.


----------



## akula (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> you're comparing a mother to a clone?



You mean your not?? 

Your right dude, not fair because the mother was routinely abused. 

Meaningless......got it.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

akula said:


> You mean your not??
> 
> Your right dude, not fair because the mother was routinely abused.
> 
> Meaningless......got it.


um, no. When I do side by side tests I use clones taken from the same mother at the same time. That's how you get controlled results.


----------



## elkukupanda (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> again, I didn't support the theory. All I did was clarify that the article didn't mention kool aid. Why is that so confusing to you? Again, reading comprehension is key.


Lol once again, i would have to differ and say is the interpretation/manipulation of your terminology and personal ideologies.


----------



## Guitar Man (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> I did a side by side test for myself already. I've already posted pics. In my case yield was the same with no defoliation as it was with moderate defoliation. Those are my results. That's not to say I support defoliation in every case so please don't put words in my mouth like others seem to do.


You said, "Unless you do a side by side test of a cloned strain the results will ALWAYS be meaningless". This isn't putting words in your mouth because that's what YOU SAID. Again, what you said is bullshit!!!


----------



## akula (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> um, no. When I do side by side tests I use clones taken from the same mother at the same time. That's how you get controlled results.


Mother and all its clones are clones dude. And who said I did this as a test?


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

elkukupanda said:


> Lol once again, i would have to differ and say is the interpretation/manipulation of your terminology and personal ideologies.


I'm sorry you misunderstood so let me clarify: no I don't support flavoring weed. In fact I already said this previously in this thread. I hope this eliminates your confusion.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

akula said:


> Mother and all its clones are clones dude. And who said I did this as a test?


I'm only saying that they're in different situations so it's not a fair comparison.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

Guitar Man said:


> You said, "Unless you do a side by side test of a cloned strain the results will ALWAYS be meaningless". This isn't putting words in your mouth because that's what YOU SAID. Again, what you said is bullshit!!!


Yes I did say that. I don't understand your point however.


----------



## elkukupanda (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> I'm sorry you misunderstood so let me clarify: no I don't support flavoring weed. In fact I already said this previously in this thread. I hope this eliminates your confusion.


Lol, let me clarify if you misunderstood... In fact you repetitively continue mixing your ideologies with the wrong terminology and this behavior has been noted in other threads as well... please focus on the matter being argued... which is you defending/"clarifying" my sarcasm about an article. Please google sarcasm and catch up with behavioural tendencies in a society.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

elkukupanda said:


> Lol, let me clarify if you misunderstood... In fact you repetitively continue mixing your ideologies with the wrong terminology and this behavior has been noted in other threads as well... please focus on the matter being argued... which is you defending/"clarifying" my sarcasm about an article. Please google sarcasm and catch up with behavioural tendencies in a society.


why do you even waste your time posting gibberish like that?


----------



## akula (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> I'm only saying that they're in different situations so it's not a fair comparison.


You mean because I defoliated the mother for so long, or because the mother had a head start/longer time to veg? I can assure you their heights and general stature were similar like any other clone pair when sent to flower. 

But then I also have other starlings growing with them. That probably equally makes my observations meaningless.


----------



## elkukupanda (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> why do you even waste your time posting gibberish like that?


LOL... too bad you are unable to see the fun side of it.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

akula said:


> You mean because I defoliated the mother for so long, or because the mother had a head start/longer time to veg? I can assure you their heights and general stature were similar like any other clone pair when sent to flower.
> 
> But then I also have other starlings growing with them. That probably equally makes my observations meaningless.


I don't know your specific situation but likely different container sizes, different ages, different nutes, different ambient temps growing up, different root masses, etc.. You get my point don't you?


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

elkukupanda said:


> LOL... too bad you are unable to see the fun side of it.


I see she's having fun so good for her I guess. I don't know why she acts like some kind of expert after one harvest which she won't even just pics of. She had all kinds of pics until two weeks before harvest, and then she stopped posting in her noob thread. Just an observation..


----------



## akula (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> I don't know your specific situation but likely different container sizes, different ages, different nutes, different ambient temps growing up, different root masses, etc.. You get my point don't you?


You can pretty much say that about any clone on most of those. But I can tell you, other then age and, most likely, root mass, they are no different. So that would then give the disadvantage to the clone correct?


----------



## elkukupanda (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> I see she's having fun so good for her I guess. I don't know why she acts like some kind of expert after one harvest which she won't even just pics of. She had all kinds of pics until two weeks before harvest, and then she stopped posting in her noob thread. Just an observation..


I can't lol at this one. Putting down women as a form of machoism is pretty retarded. I meet bright women pretty often so i have to disagree with your sense of humor. I'm not an expert.. How can i explain it to you... Some people are fast learners and some people slow... i don't think i have to point out which category you fit under.. since you been doing this for 20 years and still defoliate your plants


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

akula said:


> You can pretty much say that about any clone on most of those. But I can tell you, other then age and, most likely, root mass, they are no different. So that would then give the disadvantage to the clone correct?


Not necesserly. I believe in inertia and sometimes the inertia of a new clone can surpass the output of an old mom lacking vigor. Again I don't know all aspects to your situation so only speculating.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

elkukupanda said:


> I can't lol at this one. Putting down women as a form of machoism is pretty retarded. I meet bright women pretty often so i have to disagree with your sense of humor. I'm not an expert.. How can i explain it to you... Some people are fast learners and some people slow... i don't think i have to point out which category you fit under.. since you been doing this for 20 years and still defoliate your plants


Um, how did I put you down as a woman. I'm confused here.


----------



## elkukupanda (Mar 13, 2013)

View attachment 2567795View attachment 2567796


PJ Diaz said:


> Um, how did I put you down as a woman. I'm confused here.


Beats me man! you know that? Even tho I'm not surprised you can't understand what you talk about..
here pics for ya... I don't sell so I don't weight so I let the pics do the talk..

BTW... I smoke a lot and so the she's.... Been smoking daily for about a month and two weeks 
first reminder of first harvest and second harvest in progress 
oh, and this was with a 600w


----------



## akula (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> Not necesserly. I believe in inertia and sometimes the inertia of a new clone can surpass the output of an old mom lacking vigor. Again I don't know all aspects to your situation so only speculating.


Now it's inertia huh? Not going to get into a debate with you on that, not even saying I disagree. However I would just like to point out that you have never asked for similar quantifications in other threads where posters posted finished plants and claimed proof of victory for defoliation. In fact I have seen you beating the defoliation war drums while, not even a comparison of clones with similar grow conditions.....but comparing totally different strains. So if your not even willing to question the validity of comparing separate strains, grown in separate rooms, states, nutes, lights, growers, years....then I honestly can't give too much credence towards your inertia concerns here.


----------



## ricky6991 (Mar 13, 2013)

Damn lol, noone cares about what you guys arguing about... how about new posts are strickly people who have or have no defoliated with pictures, details and a conclusion OF THERE OWN. Not speculation. People clearly are bad at speculating maturely.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

akula said:


> Now it's inertia huh? Not going to get into a debate with you on that, not even saying I disagree. However I would just like to point out that you have never asked for similar quantifications in other threads where posters posted finished plants and claimed proof of victory for defoliation. In fact I have seen you beating the defoliation war drums while, not even a comparison of clones with similar grow conditions.....but comparing totally different strains. So if your not even willing to question the validity of comparing separate strains, grown in separate rooms, states, nutes, lights, growers, years....then I honestly can't give too much credence towards your inertia concerns here.



Yes, inertia is real. 

Anyway, I think you kinda got me all wrong. I'm not a huge defoil supporter. I just think that it can be used effectively in specific situations when done moderately. I also hate all the bashing that folks like yourself and UB put forth to those who try it. So I guess I do come across as a defender of the practice. Unfortunately you and a few others have pigenholed me, so you don't listen to anything I say for it's face value.


----------



## Username42 (Mar 13, 2013)

Officially THE most retarded thread I have ever seen on the internet. you folks should stop claiming Koolaid, crying sexual discrimination, that defoliation means stripping everything bare, and that fart-arsing about with plants in their grow room is somehow scientific when it is not.

Dudes and dudettes, clean your screens and change your bong water.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> I just think that it can be used effectively in specific situations when done moderately.


"Cialis, be prepared when the moment arrives."


----------



## elkukupanda (Mar 13, 2013)

Hey UB,
how that second harvest looks? Page 11


----------



## akula (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> Yes, inertia is real.


Never said anything to the contrary. What I said was that I will not bother concerning myself with your concern when you don't concern yourself with other more important variables...like genetics.


----------



## ricky6991 (Mar 13, 2013)

Username42 said:


> Officially THE most retarded thread I have ever seen on the internet. you folks should stop claiming Koolaid, crying sexual discrimination, that defoliation means stripping everything bare, and that fart-arsing about with plants in their grow room is somehow scientific when it is not.
> 
> Dudes and dudettes, clean your screens and change your bong water.


Should clean your bong water... your the one who posted the link which a) started these dumb bickering and b) states " Start with removing the fans from all the branches and watch the results...."

Since your the one who posted that thread you agree with its guidelines. Therefore, meaning to start by REMOVING ALL FAN LEAVES... if refering to me for being "scientific" i wasnt trying to be. Just posting what my experience was.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

akula said:


> Never said anything to the contrary. What I said was that I will not bother concerning myself with your concern when you don't concern yourself with other more important variables...like genetics.


I totally agree that genetics are paramount. I wasn't trying to argue about inertia bro. Please don't look for a fight when there isn't one.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

elkukupanda said:


> how that second harvest looks? Page 11


If you trim closer, your finished product will be better. (since you asked)

Make oil or wax from the close trimmings.


----------



## skunkd0c (Mar 13, 2013)

Username42 said:


> Officially THE most retarded thread I have ever seen on the internet. you folks should stop claiming Koolaid, crying sexual discrimination, that defoliation means stripping everything bare, and that fart-arsing about with plants in their grow room is somehow scientific when it is not.
> 
> Dudes and dudettes, clean your screens and change your bong water.


You should check out the pictures of the plants these folk grow nothing special at all
some of them are even too afraid to post pictures

bunch of clowns LOL


----------



## elkukupanda (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> If you trim closer, your finished product will be better. (since you asked)
> 
> Make oil or wax from the close trimmings.


Thanks, but i do not do any combustion.. i tried different lengths and leaving a couple millimetres of white trim does a good job 0 harsh smoke on my vape baby. 
I asked about the second harvest..


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

elkukupanda said:


> Thanks, but i do not do any combustion.. i tried different lengths and leaving a couple millimetres of white trim does a good job 0 harsh smoke on my vape baby.
> I asked about the second harvest..


Point taken. In vape I guess it doesn't matter. Dabbing oil = vape x100. No combustion. Might wanna try it.

The second harvest pics were upside down, and hard to look at without standing on my head.


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## akula (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> I totally agree that genetics are paramount. I wasn't trying to argue about inertia bro. Please don't look for a fight when there isn't one.


Good so we can then expect you to point out how a single cola picture of a plant is meaningless within the context if this debate of defoliation.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

akula said:


> Good so we can then expect you to point out how a single cola picture of a plant is meaningless within the context if this debate of defoliation.


I don't understand what your point is bro? Are you trying to start a fight or something?


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## akula (Mar 13, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> I don't understand what your point is bro? Are you trying to start a fight or something?


Does it really seem like trying to start a fight? I thought we just came to an agreement that posting a single, no context, no comparison picture is meaningless in observations relevant to this discussion. Since you initially brought up the meaningless argument, I figured we would expand on those things that are even that much more meaningless.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 13, 2013)

akula said:


> Does it really seem like trying to start a fight? I thought we just came to an agreement that posting a single, no context, no comparison picture is meaningless in observations relevant to this discussion. Since you initially brought up the meaningless argument, I figured we would expand on those things that are even that much more meaningless.


ok. Yes then, I agree.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 14, 2013)

elkukupanda said:


> Hey UB,
> how that second harvest looks? Page 11


Huh?......


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## Sir.Ganga (Mar 14, 2013)

There are 3 different positions on this de-foilation topic. 

The type that strip there plants completely not understanding what or why and expecting the Monsters crop.

The type that even when shown FACTS and PICTURES refuse to believe and do nothing but argue.

The third type are the people that are willing to LEARN and are the one that benifets of this technique.

De-foilation has nothing to do with "light to flowers" its all about getting that energy in the right position on the plant and the plant will do the rest.


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## ricky6991 (Mar 14, 2013)

Sir ganja, its comments like that, that propose there is something to gain from doing defoliation... but yet nothing proving there is something to gain in your statement. No pun intended but can you elaborate in saying to put the energy into the right places? 
If you cut off fan leaf then the energy is put into growing inner nodes but without stressing the plant by topping during veg? Thats how it seems when its read but to continue defoliate during flower when no other leaves will be produces and your stressing and stunting the plant for several days during critical bud growth. Seems and was counter productive in my case.

Hell, if people going to bicker then mine as well bicker over something that could make sense.


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## elkukupanda (Mar 14, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> Huh?......


I deleted the pics... They were awful...
I will take some later


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## medical/420 (Mar 14, 2013)

Why do my buds have little leaves on them???? I tryed covering them up so they wont get any light, but they aren't getting very big


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## Alexander Supertramp (Mar 14, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> Damn lol, noone cares about what you guys arguing about... how about new posts are strickly people who have or have no defoliated with pictures, details and a conclusion OF THERE OWN. Not speculation. People clearly are bad at speculating maturely.


Its sucks Rick I know. PJ has trolled another useful thread into oblivion. Thats about the only thing he is good at.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 14, 2013)

Alexander Supertramp said:


> Its sucks Rick I know. PJ has trolled another useful thread into oblivion. Thats about the only thing he is good at.


You must really have a hard on for me. It's so flattering. However I'm not the troll here buddy.


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## akula (Mar 14, 2013)

medical/420 said:


> Why do my buds have little leaves on them???? I tryed covering them up so they wont get any light, but they aren't getting very big





Sir.Ganga said:


> De-foilation has nothing to do with "light to flowers" its all about getting that energy in the right position on the plant and the plant will do the rest.


So smaller leaves around the calyxes are are far better at photosynthesis? -or- Translocation is a myth, or at the very least, woefully inefficient? Which is the theory you two are backing here?


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## hsfkush (Mar 14, 2013)

Fuck me, this thread is full of hot headed chumps, fighting over a matter of opinion.

But I'd like to add to the topic with a question for the OP if you can answer me please? 

You said that you didn't see any/little growth on the defoliated plant, but the pistils all turned red and receded... So does that mean that if I were to defoliate my plant(which is roughly two weeks away from finishing) the flowers will mature faster than usual, or at least look like they've matured faster?

Also, did you take note of the trichomes? Meaning, did they also turn amber after defoliating? 

Thanks.


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## ricky6991 (Mar 14, 2013)

Hsflush- ok i did not note the tricomes as i dont have good enough microscope but i figured id wait till week 8 which is around the corner. Good question though thats something i couldve followed earlier... as for the hairs receeding yes they have been solid red for week or so already. Whereas the non defoliated has the new calyx growth popping up STILL with nice white hairs everywhere. So i know you cant judge plants age from the hairs alone but how i looked at it is, the bud when new has all the white hairs and as it matures the hairs turn amber red. Then new calyxes grow outward and have fresh white hairs popping out. So if the defoliated plants had the red hairs on bud for finaly 3 weeks of flower, were they done then because the plant couldnt grow new calyxes like it normally would?

To answer you question bluntly, yes i believe my buds were mature already and currently now i get nervous seeing them cause they seem done. Ive heard over doing them causes seeds.

I will admit i am not a scientist and grow based off my reading(not much) and experience(not much)lol. I plan to pick up somemore material... although, if you notice top buds mature faster than lower ones so clearly a plants enviroment and stress will determine each buds maturity seperate. Therefor, i can deff see defoliated buds finished quicker from not growing new calyxes and not needing the extra time for the new calyxes to mature.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 14, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> No pun intended but can you elaborate in saying to put the energy into the right places?


Has his head is stuck up a place where the sun don't shine. That's where all his energy goes ya know.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 14, 2013)

hsfkush said:


> Fuck me, this thread is full of hot headed chumps, fighting over a matter of opinion.


 Opinion to some, science to others.



> So does that mean that if I were to defoliate my plant(which is roughly two weeks away from finishing) the flowers will mature faster than usual, or at least look like they've matured faster?


What is it about photosynthesis you don't understand?


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## Apomixis (Mar 14, 2013)

Yeah technically you can say that the lil leaves that arise at bud sites are producing sugars and that those sugars are going directly to the bud, but how much of the total photosynthetic product do you think they produce? Not much brah, not much.


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## hsfkush (Mar 14, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> Opinion to some, science to others.
> 
> 
> 
> What is it about photosynthesis you don't understand?


Well, I wasn't actually asking you the question but ok... And my knowledge is minimal of biology, I know the very basics in human anatomy and that's about it, it's not something I took an interest in school, I prefer astronomy personally.


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## medical/420 (Mar 15, 2013)

i know how a plant works, learned all about it in 3rd grade


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## Sir.Ganga (Mar 15, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> Sir ganja, its comments like that, that propose there is something to gain from doing defoliation... but yet nothing proving there is something to gain in your statement. No pun intended but can you elaborate in saying to put the energy into the right places?
> If you cut off fan leaf then the energy is put into growing inner nodes but without stressing the plant by topping during veg? Thats how it seems when its read but to continue defoliate during flower when no other leaves will be produces and your stressing and stunting the plant for several days during critical bud growth. Seems and was counter productive in my case.
> 
> Hell, if people going to bicker then mine as well bicker over something that could make sense.


I have posted pics, there has been multiple cut and pastes appliede to this thread and others to proove without a doubt that de-foilation does works There are different opinions for sure but when they blatenly avoid the proof in front of their faces it makes you wonder why are they doing this. Oh well I know what work...for me...and that all that matters in my world. Take my pics and info and do what you want with it.

Removing leaves (not cutting) and leaving inner nodes (suckers) will do nothing to for energy transfer. Those inner nodse as you call it actually draw from the same energy pool and root system and actually take away from the main cola and top growth. This is FACT, Gardeners have been removing sucker shoots (inner nodes) for decades now and the reasons are the production of larger fruits and veggies. You want all of the root system dedicated to the top 2 feet and by removing lower and inner suckers with their leaves will result in just that. As for weight...the plant has it in its genetics so if it can it will produe where it can.

I have never had a drop in my quantity since I applied these techniques and my room has much better air flow.

Believe me or not, I know what works and have proven this in a number of threads with a number of pics.

Just to re-ederate:

Going into flower at 17"

I run a perpetual grow so these two are different girls but the same mum, so you get the picture. They end up 28-30" usually and hold upwards of 17-19 zips per, 3 every week.

When you see results like this...how can you say it doesn't work?


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## akula (Mar 15, 2013)

medical/420 said:


> i know how a plant works, learned all about it in 3rd grade


Using 3rd grade knowledge of botany may explain much of the confusion here.


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## HeartlandHank (Mar 15, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> Opinion to some, science to others.


.. what I was thinking. Cracks me up...


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## HeartlandHank (Mar 15, 2013)

The thing about defoliation that does not get mentioned enough in these threads is the fact that everything the defoliators are going for can be had with genetics, proper plant spacing, minimal training, canopy mngmnt. You do need to strip your plants of leaves to get maturity from top to bottom. If you are not getting maturity from top to bottom then you have not learned to properly grow your genetics... worst case scenario, you have stubborn genetics and you need a 2 part harvest.

Wish I could convince you, but it's not going to happen. Wasted energy and lower yields...

I wanna see Bud Brewer grow that skunk plant without defol... that plant must be amazing, pulling yields that he claims while being mutilated. Beast...


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## Sir.Ganga (Mar 15, 2013)

HeartlandHank said:


> The thing about defoliation that does not get mentioned enough in these threads is the fact that everything the defoliators are going for can be had with genetics, proper plant spacing, minimal training, canopy mngmnt. You do need to strip your plants of leaves to get maturity from top to bottom. If you are not getting maturity from top to bottom then you have not learned to properly grow your genetics... worst case scenario, you have stubborn genetics and you need a 2 part harvest.
> 
> Wish I could convince you, but it's not going to happen. Wasted energy and lower yields...
> 
> ...


Who wants maturity from top to bottom? Not only can you increase yeild but you can eliminate popcorn buds on your lower branches. Leaving all those sucker shoots will rob the rest of the plant and overall will have smaller colas and a lot of popcorn.

Eliminating the popcorn is my goal and in trying to do this I found out energy transfer from the manipulation does not decrease my yeild but just the opposite, bigger more solid bud and an increase in yeild.

I have done the side by side with many strains and though some do not like manipulation I have yet to go below my expected Quantity or quality.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 15, 2013)

Apomixis said:


> Yeah technically you can say that the lil leaves that arise at bud sites are producing sugars and that those sugars are going directly to the bud, .....


Going to the roots and stems too, and herein lies what many people don't think though - that a plant has fluid based, distribution system, the phloem, just like you do (blood, veins, arteries) and just because a fan leaf produces carbos 3' up the plant doesn't mean it stays and is used for cellular production at that location. Any one heard of the term "phloem"? Dat's right....

UB


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 15, 2013)

Sir.Ganga said:


> Who wants maturity from top to bottom? Not only can you increase yeild but you can eliminate popcorn buds on your lower branches. Leaving all those *sucker shoots* will rob the rest of the plant and overall will have smaller colas and a lot of popcorn.
> 
> Eliminating the popcorn is my goal and in trying to do this I found out energy transfer from the manipulation does not decrease my yeild but just the opposite, bigger more solid bud and an increase in yeild..


What a load of baseless crap. The only sucker is you. Sorry, but Grandma was wrong when she instructed little Johnny to get out to the garden and pull all dem suckers off her maters. Those "sucker shoots" are frickin' green ya retard, which means they are producing carbos for the entire plant. You pull them off and you done screwed up your maters. I have never seen so many try to make this growing thingie so complicated and confusing as dorks like you.

Come on now, you can do it! Pull that head out and see the light!!!!!


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## Alexander Supertramp (Mar 15, 2013)

xylem and phloem baby......even terms like vascular and epidermis are used. Imagine that......

View attachment 2569883


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## Alexander Supertramp (Mar 15, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> What a load of baseless crap. The only sucker is you. Sorry, but Grandma was wrong when she instructed little Johnny to get out to the garden and pull all dem suckers off her maters. Those "sucker shoots" are frickin' green ya retard, which means they are producing carbos for the entire plant. You pull them off and you done screwed up your maters. I have never seen so many try to make this growing thingie so complicated and confusing as dorks like you.
> 
> Come on now, you can do it! Pull that head out and see the light!!!!!


I dont think the guy is even bright enough to find his own ass. Much less figure out how to pull something out of it.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 15, 2013)

Alexander Supertramp said:


> xylem and phloem baby......even terms like vascular and epidermis are used. *Imagine that......*
> 
> View attachment 2569883



[video=youtube;XLgYAHHkPFs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLgYAHHkPFs[/video]


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## chuck estevez (Mar 15, 2013)

Guys experimenting are saying don't do it, all of us who have done it are saying don't do it, YET, 2 retards, 1 of which seems to have left the building,keeps on and on about his backassward technics. Then try to insult the guy that has 100's of people grow super dank by following his simple,mother nature like Technics. It really doesn't take a genius to figure this out.


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## HeartlandHank (Mar 15, 2013)

Sir.Ganga said:


> Who wants maturity from top to bottom? Not only can you increase yeild but you can eliminate popcorn buds on your lower branches. Leaving all those sucker shoots will rob the rest of the plant and overall will have smaller colas and a lot of popcorn.
> 
> Eliminating the popcorn is my goal and in trying to do this I found out energy transfer from the manipulation does not decrease my yeild but just the opposite, bigger more solid bud and an increase in yeild.
> 
> I have done the side by side with many strains and though some do not like manipulation I have yet to go below my expected Quantity or quality.


Defoliation and cutting out a little lower growth are two completely different things... I cut out lower growth too. Honestly, more so for room to work than popcorn issues.
You do not have to defol to avoid popcorn.. I've been doing it for some time. I can help you with that if you want...


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## HeartlandHank (Mar 15, 2013)

Sir.Ganga said:


> Not only can you increase yeild but...


You see an increase in over all yield from cutting out lower growth? I can't definitively say I have seen an increase. I've recently stepped up in yields and am still trying to pick out what change to that flower cycle was responsible for how much increase in production. There were several changes and I assume several contributed to the increase.

Have you done enough before/after or side by side to get an idea of what kind of yield increase you have seen? Just a guess, in general, with said genetics.

I saw 20-25% yield increase (previous grows, same plant, same system) during a grow that I fucking nailed the canopy, nailed the branching (mostly genetics), nailed the feeding, nailed the veg growth,,, it just went really well.
I've bounced around on what I think was most responsible. Perhaps the removal of lower flower sites contributed more than I thought... I know less training equated to less flower sites which equated to larger buds very well spaced. Which mean better canopy mngmt, more light delivered to plant, more yields. Fuck, I wish I could nail another grow like that. It was a little bit more labor intensive though. I've been a little too busy to baby the plants lately.

If you are saying that defoliation increased yields though I can't really have much confidence in your info on pruning suckers/yields and what not. Haha. But yeah, I like to cut out lower growth too, for a handful of reasons.


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Mar 15, 2013)

Username42 said:


> How to defoliate and why not to remove all the leaves is detailed.


very well said.
it's obvious the op had no idea on how to truly defoliate and went about it the wrong way. i said it before and i'll say it again, defoliating works if you know what you're doing. someone stripping all the leaves off of a cola then posting results as if he knew what he was doing (which obviously he didn't) doesn't mean he speaks for us all, especially the well trained experience growers who has master such technique.


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## bird mcbride (Mar 15, 2013)

I thin my moms because if I don't I'll just be cleaning out dead leaves outta the center of the hedge anyway so I may as well get them green for hash binder. If the flowers are to thick on the fruit trees we thin them out to ensure larger apples etc. It's an art...You have to know when and where. If you are growing one or two plants with lots of room, LST.


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## gagekko (Mar 15, 2013)

I am fairly new to growing but have noticed that lower growth is important - when it's not there, my yields suffer.

But I have also noticed that for the lower growth to stay green and healthy, I need a nice, strong, thick, stem... When a plant doesn't have a thick stem, I noticed that it seems to have a problem with nutrient uptake/delivery - thereby causing yellowing, defoliation, and low yields.

Am I right about this or is it all in my head? Also, how do I get those thick main trunks that I need?


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## ricky6991 (Mar 15, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> very well said.
> it's obvious the op had no idea on how to truly defoliate and went about it the wrong way. i said it before and i'll say it again, defoliating works if you know what you're doing. someone stripping all the leaves off of a cola then posting results as if he knew what he was doing (which obviously he didn't) doesn't mean he speaks for us all, especially the well trained experience growers who has master such technique.


Your quoting someone who posted a link which says in the "how to" of defoliating, REMOVE ALL FAN LEAVES.... also it was a buddy of mine who did it cause i would never have thats why i have 12 plant and only 2 are nakid... finally, where the fuck did i say i "knew" what i was doing considering i NEVER wanted to have them defoliated in the first place...

Always online tough guys... according to the link which was posted in this thread AND every other defoliating thread as to why it works. It says defoliating is to remove ALL fan leaves. Then wait period of time and remove ALL fan leaves again. So you guys figure out some definitions and what they mean because you guys taking afew leafs off here and there is called pruning. Alot of people will pluck a leaf or 2 every now and then. Also, alot of people cut lower growth off. Also, has a name. Called lollipoping.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 15, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> Your quoting someone who posted a link which says in the "how to" of defoliating, REMOVE ALL FAN LEAVES.... also it was a buddy of mine who did it cause i would never have thats why i have 12 plant and only 2 are nakid... finally, where the fuck did i say i "knew" what i was doing considering i NEVER wanted to have them defoliated in the first place...
> 
> Always online tough guys... according to the link which was posted in this thread AND every other defoliating thread as to why it works. It says defoliating is to remove ALL fan leaves. Then wait period of time and remove ALL fan leaves again. So you guys figure out some definitions and what they mean because you guys taking afew leafs off here and there is called pruning. Alot of people will pluck a leaf or 2 every now and then. Also, alot of people cut lower growth off. Also, has a name. Called lollipoping.


Hey Ricky, I think we need to clarify something here..

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but in reality you (and your friend) defoliated ALL of your plants right?

My understanding is that your buddy did a major leaf stripping job on two plants, while you did a moderate defoliation of the rest. Is this correct?

I just want to make sure we aren't comparing plants with stripped leaves to plants with NO leaf removal. I think many posters in this thread are confused as to what actually happened in your grow room.

I'm basing my assumptions off this thread: https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/626372-friend-hardcore-defoliated-couple-plants.html

Thanks.


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## Username42 (Mar 15, 2013)

I can answer that for Ricky. All plants got defoliated...


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## Fruitbat (Mar 15, 2013)

It's like shaving your pubes to make your dick look bigger.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 15, 2013)

Username42 said:


> I can answer that for Ricky. All plants got defoliated...


That's what I thought, which makes this entire thread a misnomer.


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## Alexander Supertramp (Mar 16, 2013)

Some people are just to fucking to stupid to realize they are being fooled. And what makes it so funny and them so ignorant is the fact they are fooling themsleves!!! What a bunch of dummies. Keep plucking them boys and I mean BOYS!


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## Apomixis (Mar 16, 2013)

I see what you did there. Very light, very nice to the plant. But I still can't understand why you would take leaves off that are bigger- they produce more usable sugar than the lower, older leaves. Big leaves=big photosynthetic product. Why bother at all? 
Also, MJ flowers are racemes which, by their very nature will mature at different times. Correct me if I'm wrong here..


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Mar 16, 2013)

Apomixis, the reason i took them off was to get better light penetration. you don't have to take them all off, just the one's that blocking the middle of the canopy. tbh, if you're going to give it a try, it's best you start while in veg stage.
also, if your plant is healthy, taking off leaves here and there through out its life cycle should not slow it down one bit. as i stated, one must really know how to read plants before he/she start advance techniques such as defoliating any other high stress training or pruning method. 

it's just like topping, some strains take well to it and some don't. for example, you can top a plant and put it straight into flower, in some cases some people top while in flower, and the plant responds to it well. but then you got some that if you top them and don't give them enough time to recuperate she will start throwing male flowers all over the place or won't grow as fast as she use to.


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## Sir.Ganga (Mar 16, 2013)

Apomixis said:


> I see what you did there. Very light, very nice to the plant. But I still can't understand why you would take leaves off that are bigger- they produce more usable sugar than the lower, older leaves. Big leaves=big photosynthetic product. Why bother at all?
> Also, MJ flowers are racemes which, by their very nature will mature at different times. Correct me if I'm wrong here..


No Apomixis your right they produce sugars, all of them do at different rates and throughout the grow period and yes they will mature at different rates at different heights on the plant. Once a leaf has past its prime it now becomes a liability to the plant using more energy than its worth. By removing these at the right time will only help the plant by allowing more energy transfer to the top of the plant or at least the branch you took the leaf from. Removing the inner shoots (suckers) will also transfer energy further up the plant.

The reason for removal of lower branches and shoots is to have all your growth in the grow zone allowing all flowers to mature at the same rate.


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## ricky6991 (Mar 16, 2013)

What i did to other plants was remove the large fan leaves going up main stem and left the ones on the top cola... all side branches are lollipoped until certain length that can out grow above shoots. 

Again, get your head out of your ass. This post was my experience and what happened with me. THATS ALL. People can do as they please idc anymore... even my buddy who did the defoliating to both plants immediately noticed a difference in bud growth and said he feels like an idiot for doing it. According to that write up on defoliating he did it correctly. Read his post and tell me it does not say to say remove all fan leaves. All my sugar leafs are on still. So are you arguing that its wrong to remove all leafs? So all this bickering is from pruning afew leafs when you think they not fully functioning compared to defoliating which according to that write up is to remove all fan leafs not some when you want... so defoliation according to majority of people clearly is the art of removing all fan leaves. Whereas, in your eyes defoliating to just pruning afew leafs strategically. 

How can people are about what works and what doesnt if they dont know the terms for which arguments based on.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 16, 2013)

Ricky, that's just one dudes thread, not a how to manual. Most successful gardeners who practice leaf removal will tell you that a complete leaf strip job is stupid. It's all about moderation.


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## dopedeeii (Mar 16, 2013)

So Alexander gets his info from another source then passes misinformation to the rest of the riu world I see now I do admit the guy had sum nice top colas but it'll be alot of under developed lower parts so hey popcorn for him


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## zack66 (Mar 16, 2013)

I personally think Alexander is one of the most knowledgeable folks on here. We all have our opinions on what makes a plant tick. I've read quite a few of his posts over the last few months and his info is right on!


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## Kite High (Mar 16, 2013)

Sir.Ganga said:


> No Apomixis your right they produce sugars, all of them do at different rates and throughout the grow period and yes they will mature at different rates at different heights on the plant. Once a leaf has past its prime it now becomes a liability to the plant using more energy than its worth. By removing these at the right time will only help the plant by allowing more energy transfer to the top of the plant or at least the branch you took the leaf from. Removing the inner shoots (suckers) will also transfer energy further up the plant.
> 
> The reason for removal of lower branches and shoots is to have all your growth in the grow zone allowing all flowers to mature at the same rate.


so says the idjit with the puny plants

I dub you the

[video=youtube;SdH8_MIIEpQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdH8_MIIEpQ[/video]


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## dopedeeii (Mar 16, 2013)

zack66 said:


> I personally think Alexander is one of the most knowledgeable folks on here. We all have our opinions on what makes a plant tick. I've read quite a few of his posts over the last few months and his info is right on!


I seriously don't doubt the guys cannabis know how but is there really a straight forward cannabis manual so to actually say this is how u do it r that is how u do it isn't apart of it mj is comprised of numerous different strains that r grown in different environments across the world so why talk as if God gave u(Alexander) a personal manual


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 16, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> It's all about moderation.


And just how much moderation is good moderation?


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 16, 2013)

Fruitbat said:


> It's like shaving your pubes to make your dick look bigger.


Sheesh, another new high tech experiment fer me, thanks for the tip. Hey ma, hand me my razor! We're gonna have some fun tonight hubba hubba!


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## chuck estevez (Mar 16, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> Sheesh, another new high tech experiment fer me, thanks for the tip. Hey ma, hand me my razor! We're gonna have some fun tonight hubba hubba!


 Don't ya know that is why you never marry a girl with big hands. Makes your dick look small.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 16, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> Don't ya know that is why you never marry a girl with big hands. Makes your dick look small.


Sounds like a personal problem.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 16, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> And just how much moderation is good moderation?


I believe that everything should be done in moderation, including moderation.


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## Alexander Supertramp (Mar 17, 2013)

No thanks god, I do not need a manual. ...

I have decades of agricultural experience. Mostly growing annuals. Guess what cannabis is? An annual.........
My turn to beat a dead horse.....
[video=youtube;ETHvSTT6PA8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETHvSTT6PA8[/video]


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 17, 2013)

Alexander Supertramp said:


> I have decades of agricultural experience. Mostly growing annuals. Guess what cannabis is? An annual.........


Perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't. If it is an annual it's the only dioecious annual that I know of. Some might argue that it's in fact a perennial, which is treated as an annual. The fact that you can reveg and have multiple harvests does support that theory. It could simply be that we've brought it to a climate that it doesn't really thrive as a perennial, so it's in effect become an annual. Point is, such things are not so cut and dry.

Out of curiosity, in your decades of agricultural experience growing annuals, what are the three most popular annuals you've grown?

[video=youtube;kv0-95ltk3M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv0-95ltk3M[/video]


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## Fazer1rlg (Mar 17, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> Ok so pics deffinetly suck... but they get the point across.
> 
> First picture is just a picture of a side node showing the plants maturity. Almost done!
> 
> ...




Same exact thing happened to the plants I tried this "defoliation" I learned a good lesson never take leaves off again!


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## chuck estevez (Mar 17, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> Sounds like a personal problem.


 that's very clever(not), you get help from your mommy with that one?


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Mar 17, 2013)

once again, here's a pic of a plant that was defoliated. if you notice, only the big and mid sized fans in the middle was taking off, not every leaf on the plant. 
you dudes can blame the technique all you want, but it's you that is truly the problem.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 17, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> that's very clever(not), you get help from your mommy with that one?


I wasn't trying to be clever bro, just never had that problem myself.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 17, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> Yummy yum yum


Now that's better, BUT, if it was my maters, I'd strip almost all of those leaves off. They're just getting in the way and creating air circulation problems. Right?

pffffffffftttttt, how in the hell do you even walk down the aisle without your Bob Marley t-shirt getting green stuff on it! Yech!

UB


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 17, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> once again, here's a pic of a plant that was defoliated. if you notice, only the big and mid sized fans in the middle was taking off, not every leaf on the plant.
> you dudes can blame the technique all you want, but it's you that is truly the problem.


Could have doubled your yields if you had left it alone. Live and learn....


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## Nizza (Mar 17, 2013)

damn your persistent UB, but i fully agree. i only take fan leaves off if theyre really damaged, or close to the bottom of the pot touching the soil


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## Sir.Ganga (Mar 17, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> How can people are about what works and what doesnt if they dont know the terms for which arguments based on.



de·fo·li·ate (d




-f








l




-




t




)_v._ *de·fo·li·at·ed*, *de·fo·li·at·ing*, *de·fo·li·ates* 
_v.__tr._*1. *To deprive (a plant, tree, or forest) of leaves.
*2. *To cause the leaves of (a plant, tree, or forest) to fall off, especially by the use of chemicals.

_v.__intr._To lose foliage.

I think it comes down to perception. Indoor growing is all about control and common sence.

Common sence seems to be lacking in a bunch of gardens around this place.

If you remove ONE leaf you have begun to defoiliate, at least thats how I understand it.


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## chuck estevez (Mar 17, 2013)

Sir.Ganga said:


> de·fo·li·ate (d
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so has common sense


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## Sir.Ganga (Mar 17, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> so has common sense


Still waiting for some pics??Remember?


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## chuck estevez (Mar 17, 2013)

UBWANNABE said:


> Still waiting for some pics??Remember?


Don't need your troll approval, remember? Size means absolutely NOTHING. Come smoke some of my O.G. that I grew with $10 veg nutes.
It will kick your ass because you probably don't know the difference between well grown weed and stress weed.


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## bird mcbride (Mar 17, 2013)

About 2-3 days before I chop I start defoliating the selected shoots. In op language a shoot is a clone. This has nothing to do with the OP. Don't get internet lingo confused with op lingo. For example a 4x4 is a flood and drain table. Don't get this confused with pick-up trucks. K.I.S.S. means cops etc. I seen some pics of some fairly fine buds in this thread. No real need to argue. I took in some totally defoliated homegrown stalks back in the eighties and the dam things grew back and I wound up with some really good bud. I wouldn't waste my time with that anymore but if you got nothing better to do...why not?


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## HeartlandHank (Mar 17, 2013)

These pictures posted are completely meaningless. If you wanna post a side by side shot, then ok, there is a little something to go on. But really, what does a pic of your mid sized plant prove? That you can harvest buds from a defoliated plant?

When I see that last pic... I noticed the weaker growth down low and in the center. Is that not what defol is supposed to be preventing?

Here you go... I did not defol this plant.. I have no idea what this proves.... but it looks a whole lot more productive than the defol plant above. This plant got all beat to hell too. But the only leaves pulled off this plant were crispy and brown..


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## bird mcbride (Mar 17, 2013)

Those look pretty good also HLH. A bit of root damage though. This is what is causing the leaves to die.


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Mar 17, 2013)

HeartlandHank said:


> These pictures posted are completely meaningless. If you wanna post a side by side shot, then ok, there is a little something to go on. But really, what does a pic of your mid sized plant prove? That you can harvest buds from a defoliated plant?
> 
> When I see that last pic... I noticed the weaker growth down low and in the center. Is that not what defol is supposed to be preventing?
> 
> ...


you dudes thrill me, that shit is straight fluff. as you can see my bottoms are mature and rock solid. unlike you i didn't take the nodes off of the bottom of the branch and as you can see the defoliating has done it's job.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 17, 2013)

bird mcbride said:


> Those look pretty good also HLH. A bit of root damage though. This is what is causing the leaves to die.


ah.......from the mouths of babes.


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## HeartlandHank (Mar 17, 2013)

bird mcbride said:


> Those look pretty good also HLH. A bit of root damage though. This is what is causing the leaves to die.


Man... root damage was just the start of it... haha. She saw some harsh days... I had to leave town for a week on short notice and I had no one lined up to take care of the plants... So I just watered the plants and cut the lights... 5 days of darkness... Upon return the plants were all a pale green... That was about the most damaging part of the grow I would suspect.

The plant wilted a couple times late in flower... so there was definitely some root damage. I bet the roots didn't like the soggy conditions it saw being watered just a few hours before seeing 5 days of darkness either. I have done the "cut the lights" thing before. It is far from optimal, but growing in soiless peat/coco type stuff, if you gotta leave the room unattended for up to a week on short notice, no automation in place... it works.


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## dopedeeii (Mar 17, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> Could have doubled your yields if you had left it alone. Live and learn....


The leaves aren't even yellowing yet so what leaves or they feeding off of none yet right


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## HeartlandHank (Mar 17, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> you dudes thrill me, that shit is straight fluff. as you can see my bottoms are mature and rock solid. unlike you i didn't take the nodes off of the bottom of the branch and as you can see the defoliating has done it's job.


I guess we are seeing two different things... those buds look behind the rest of the plant.. not a big deal, I just thought that was what defol was supposed to prevent. I see pale growth less dense than the top on your plant. It doesn't look like it did a very good job. Like I told a past poster. You do not need to remove leaves to get consistently mature and dense buds from top to bottom. Especially with that small of a plant... You can do it without losing yield like you do with defol.. If you want, I can help you out with this.

Just going by what I have seen you type in the past.. I wouldn't expect you to know this... But that dense nuggage on your plant is a result of genetics. That fluff on my plant is a result of genetics. And that below average (productivity) plant that you managed to grow there is a testament to the genetics you have. The superior production (compared to yours) on my plant is a result of adequate (barely) growing conditions and genetics... The funny thing is, your hit to production was your own doing, time spent in the garden working. You spent time fucking up your plant...My decrease in production is much less than yours AND the result of me spending less time in the garden fucking with plants. I don't baby my shit... because I have better shit to do and I know that all I need to do is give them adequate conditions, not piss on my plants (defol), and let my system/grow room and the genetics do their job.

as much as you think that your tricks are doing good for your plant.. all you need to do is give the plant a place to stay and try not to fuck it up... you know, like cut the leaves off of it. If you have time to waste, why not do something the plants would appreciate. Maybe clean up a little? Shit, if you are looking to fuck up your leaves, why not save yourself the labor and just introduce some spider mites to your grow?

Here is a seed from that same pack, more dense, grown right along with that fluff plant (and yes, she was fluffy, found her while looking through a pack for a nice new mother to take on). This plant put out decent density. I've got dense plants, I've got fluffy plants. I've hand picked every mother I have and bud density is not a deal breaker in this garden... Bottom line, every plant in my garden is more productive than your photo there. As long as you defol they always will be.

So, I need to cut the leaves off to get that wine bottle plant to produce dense buds? wow...
So, at the bottom is my 14 week SSH (beanho) selection... so if I want to turn those 24in spear colas into dense buds I just need to cut the leaves off?
haha..


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## 1blazeking (Mar 17, 2013)

Since fan leaves are so important maybe scroggers can tuck and bind the buds under the net and keep the fan leaves coming through and bushing on the top so they get the most light. I bet that will give great buds according to the experts here. Why have buds shade the shade leaves??


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## Kite High (Mar 17, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> once again, here's a pic of a plant that was defoliated. if you notice, only the big and mid sized fans in the middle was taking off, not every leaf on the plant.
> you dudes can blame the technique all you want, but it's you that is truly the problem.


OMFG another one to dub as

[video=youtube;SdH8_MIIEpQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdH8_MIIEpQ[/video]

i mean cmon you post a pic of a miniature plant that there is no reason merited to defoil as it is small and short so light is not an issue and IMO didn't yield enough to make it worth fucking with in the first place but you try to indicate that somehow you defoliated it into a high yields monster when I have had a single cola from runs that went bad that yielded more than that entire cute lil plant...get fucking real....and lemme guess you're 20 and been growing a year or two correct?


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## HeartlandHank (Mar 17, 2013)

Kite High said:


> ...get fucking real....


If you wanna see more from Fresh, check out his posts in Nute threads.

Check out his buddy Tree King while you are at it


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## Kite High (Mar 17, 2013)

HeartlandHank said:


> If you wanna see more from Fresh, check out his posts in Nute threads.
> 
> Check out his buddy Tree King while you are at it


lmao....already well familiar with tree and his foolish love of AN and total lack of knowledge of how salts actually work...when I feel like laffing at idiocy I will peruse his postings...I like you hank...you're straight up...good rare trait these days


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## HeartlandHank (Mar 17, 2013)

Kite High said:


> already well familiar with tree


I like chatting with Tree, he's funny, reminds me of an old friend. He has some ass backwards views on horticulture but he is a good guy.
I need to catch up with him.


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## HeartlandHank (Mar 17, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> unlike you i didn't take the nodes off of the bottom of the branch and as you can see the defoliating has done it's job.


You would have to explain what it is that I am supposed to see in your pic. What is it that the defoliating has done for you?


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## Alexander Supertramp (Mar 18, 2013)

Fresh2death how many days of veg did those plants get? From bean breaking the ground to the flip to 12/12 that is....


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 18, 2013)

HeartlandHank said:


> ...... I wouldn't expect you to know this... But that dense nuggage on your plant is a result of genetics. That fluff on my plant is a result of genetics. And that below average (productivity) plant that you managed to grow there is a testament to the genetics you have.


Yep, genetics plays a major part, BUT, I'd like to reiterate my position regarding plant development.....chronological aging, apical dominance. There are well defined stages cannabis goes thru, as defined by RC Clarke and others who dissect the botany of cannabis until there is no tomorrow. From a very young juvenile stage to early adulthood, adulthood, flowering, senescence. Like I said before all plants, perennials or annuals, put their energy, their "goodies" into the part that chronologically developed first and/or is the terminal leader based on hormonal responses, apical dominance. No matter how much light you might want to apply to the lower part of the plant indoors, it just isn't going to get what the dominant top part is gonna get, UNLESS, you top it and THEN the new top becomes dominant. This can be seen on outdoor cannabis plants which get total light penetration into the canopy top to bottom. 

Another good example - I am in the midst of pruning grapevines which are really beginning to push. Where do they push first? You guessed it, at the very end of last year's canes. IOW, those terminal buds (ends) are getting the food reserves (that have been stored over winter in the roots) first, then the buds break (push) back towards the trunk/cordons in descending order. 



> The superior production (compared to yours) on my plant is a result of adequate (barely) growing conditions and genetics... The funny thing is, your hit to production was your own doing, time spent in the garden working. You spent time fucking up your plant...My decrease in production is much less than yours AND the result of me spending less time in the garden fucking with plants. *I don't baby my shit... because I have better shit to do and I know that all I need to do is give them adequate conditions,* not piss on my plants (defol), and let my system/grow room and the genetics do their job.


Amen brother! It depends on how long you've been doing this too. Once the honeymoon wears off with a newbie, they will kick back and stop being a slave to their plants. You'll never see me doing SCROG, "lst", or even clones. Pop a seed, top it, let it grow out naturally and be done with it. 

Where cannabis was very important to me in the 60's, I could care less about it now regarding inputs (my time) or production. Been there, done that. I enjoy growing more challenging plant material and find cannabis is so easy and simple to grow, it's a bit boring to me now. For example, I'm having a ball growing tropicals in my greenhouse. We had a fine meal last night which included homegrown asparagus. What a frickin' treat! 



> as much as you think that your tricks are doing good for your plant.. all you need to do is give the plant a place to stay and try not to fuck it up... you know, like cut the leaves off of it. If you have time to waste, why not do something the plants would appreciate. Maybe clean up a little? Shit, if you are looking to fuck up your leaves, why not save yourself the labor and just introduce some spider mites to your grow?


ROFLMAO! 

UB


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## ricky6991 (Mar 18, 2013)

Today is day 1 of week 8 ! The buds exploded with thickness all last week. Just seen them today for first time in 4 days. I was nervous i wouldnt reach my 7 i wanted total but after seeing them today and knowing there atleast week left i am feeling more confident.

However, the defoliated plants are still equal to lower nodes on the normal plants.  live and learn. It was great lesson for me an my friend. More him than me cause i wouldnt have done it to start just because, but now i know exactly why never to lol... i can say they did begin to grow new calyex on top nugs but nothing compared to other plants. I can honestly say the top nugs compared to the rest should be atleast double its size. Since id say start week 6 it just fell off in growth.


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Mar 18, 2013)

Alexander Supertramp said:


> Fresh2death how many days of veg did those plants get? From bean breaking the ground to the flip to 12/12 that is....


damn lame, i thought you had me on ignore homegirl.
if you must know not that long.
here's a little history for you. she and the rest of the seeds that i started around the same time, got caught in the storm NY had not too long ago and sat in wet soil for a week and become waterlogged. processing the genetics (heavy indica on top of being waterlogged) i didn't have any intentions are keeping them, plan was to take cuts and move on, but being the grower that i am and coming from the person who created them (Pisces Genetics), i said fuck it and tossed them into flower at 12in and stunted. 
as you can see, even through all the adversity she still came out nice (that's what you call solid genetics grown by a solid grower). 

know you and your crew go and take a puff of that commercial/swag that you'll are so fond and think about Fresh does his thing to fuel that hate that you'll got for him.

also since you're so caught up on the size of a plant, good growers don't grow flower out a bunch of unknown's huge, unless one doesn't have anything else to flower out or plan on running them in a tent by themselves. with all the years of growing you and some of these other dweebs should know that by know. i guess growing and smoking all that swag one wouldn't remember such things.


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## Kite High (Mar 18, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> damn lame, i thought you had me on ignore homegirl.
> if you must know not that long.
> here's a little history for you. she and the rest of the seeds that i started around the same time, got caught in the storm NY had not too long ago and sat in wet soil for a week and become waterlogged. processing the genetics (heavy indica on top of being waterlogged) i didn't have any intentions are keeping them, plan was to take cuts and move on, but being the grower that i am and coming from the person who created them (Pisces Genetics), i said fuck it and tossed them into flower at 12in and stunted.
> as you can see, even through all the adversity she still came out nice (that's what you call solid genetics grown by a solid grower).
> ...


you're a joke dude


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Mar 18, 2013)

Kite High said:


> you're a joke dude


and the same goes to you.

the fact of the matter is, you guys think that if one doesn't grow your way it's wrong or can't grow. i can show you how i do and where i learned from and you will see that you're just a average grower that only talk the shit that you do here. if you would like we can take this discussion at the Farm and you will see that your skills aren't as good as you think they are. 
you seen my post addressing you and HH, did you check the links? i think so. do you think you're on their level, you know you're not and that's why i talk the shit i do.

my pics and ability to grow is appreciated everywhere i go. breeders and people that most know on these boards big my shit up, but here you and your band of dweebs say otherwise. so who's really the joke?

oh yeah, if you don't believe the post you quoted, i got everything logged on the Farm as verification.


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## Kite High (Mar 18, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> like i stated to you in my thread, i grow quality and most of the genetics i buy and grow aren't the biggest yielders. my pics speaks for themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


suck on this buffoon 

Positronics Claustrum at only 5 weeks flower....7 weeks to go..those are 4-6 foot plants







I use Dynagro as it works swimmingly

and for your potency doubts
http://library.constantcontact.com/download/get/file/1102675987015-288/NM_SSH15_2_27_13.pdf


Go play puny god...we hate your ignorance and acting like you know shit when your own words and pics tell us otherwise
Genetics? you do not know shit thinking these crosses you love are anything other than everyday pot...buffoon


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## Kite High (Mar 18, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> and the same goes to you.
> 
> the fact of the matter is, you guys think that if one doesn't grow your way it's wrong or can't grow. i can show you how i do and where i learned from and you will see that you're just a average grower that only talk the shit that you do here. if you would like we can take this discussion at the Farm and you will see that your skills aren't as good as you think they are.
> you seen my post addressing you and HH, did you check the links? i think so. do you think you're on their level, you know you're not.
> ...


LOL... I am one of the dudes on icmag dude... but I go by a different moniker there...whazzup is my friend...so is dubi

















Once again you open your mouth and insert your foot


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## PurpleBuz (Mar 19, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> when it's all said and done, defoliating is about removing excess fans to create better light penetration,.


If thats the purpose of defoliating why don't you just give the plant more all around light instead of cutting off whats already producing? You sound like an anorexic with an eating disorder.


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## Kite High (Mar 19, 2013)

that what I do...put light down there...duh


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## PLATINUM777 (Mar 19, 2013)

So after reading the entire thread I came to a conclusion to not fuck with my fan leaves. ))) this is the answer I been waiting for.


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Mar 19, 2013)

PurpleBuz said:


> If thats the purpose of defoliating why don't you just give the plant more all around light instead of cutting off whats already producing? You sound like an anorexic with an eating disorder.


mainly because i grow in tents. what you suggest, moving my reflector all the way to one side to fit another bulb that isn't as intense as the one sitting the reflector is? 

the fact of the matter is i do what works for me and defoliating hasn't hurt me one bit. being that i didn't lollipop, opening up the canopy was my best option and in doing so, i got nice size nugs that are very dense from top to bottom on every plant. oh did i forget to mention that my tents are packed from wall to wall?



PLATINUM777 said:


> So after reading the entire thread I came to a conclusion to not fuck with my fan leaves. ))) this is the answer I been waiting for.


that's cool, defoliating isn't for everyone.


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Mar 19, 2013)

Kite High said:


> suck on this buffoon
> 
> Positronics Claustrum at only 5 weeks flower....7 weeks to go..those are 4-6 foot plants
> 
> ...


hmm, i see why your mad now too. i hate to tell you, but gh 3part with the edition of useless formula is killing the dyna gro. i used dyna gro every way it could possibly be used and it still was mediocre compared to the gh 3part/useless combo. don't get me wrong, the plants came out nice, but didn't get no where as dense or as frosty as the gh 3part/useless combo.
for you, it's definitely well suited. mediocre nutes for a mediocre grow that produces mediocre results. and don't know where you got this idea that you grow a huge plant that you're automatically considered a top notch grower, because that is far from the case and any real grower will tell you the same. also, i seen a noobie produce better buds than you, same elongated structure with a lot more frost than the swag you posted, so your post of these commercial plants isn't impressing me at all.
don't know what type of response you expect when you post up commercial buds that looks to yield commercially, isn't that what it's suppose to do? *DUH*.



Kite High said:


> LOL... I am one of the dudes on icmag dude... but I go by a different moniker there...whazzup is my friend...so is dubi
> 
> 
> 
> ...


for what, dude if i had that same plant that shit would be maxed out. those are mediocre at best, how many times do i need to say it? the only people you're impressing are the girl scouts that you associate with and the noobs that doesn't know any better. check the links i post than look at yours and you will notice that buds are just as big or bigger and are blinged out. they don't need to usb micro or special camera to show the trics. their plants are maxed out, where yours isn't or HH isn't even worth mentioning.
as for you being on the Mag, you're name doesn't ring bells of one of the sites best growers or even near it.

as far my skills, like i said, my pics speaks for themselves. get over yourself homegirl, you're not that much of a beast as you thought you was. get better genetics and learn how to grow better than i'll have some respect for your skills.

also Positronics is even the league of Bodhi, Pisces, Top Dawg, Raredankness, OG Rascal and so on and so on. you can fool some of these noobs into thinking that but not all. they will see you for the mediocre grower that you are once they learn how to read plants and grow better than you, which shouldn't be too long.


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## chuck estevez (Mar 19, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> nah, it seems as if you're mad. you comment on what i say, so it should tells you who is focusing on who and who is mad at who.
> 
> but it seems i have gotten a little flagrant with the older folk around here (he know who he is) and out of respect, im going to fall back from this thread. i said what i had to say and held shit down on my end so there's no need to continue.
> 
> oh, i can do that too.


tucks tail and runs. Bwahaha! thanks for the laughs this morning. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Mar 19, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> tucks tail and runs. Bwahaha! thanks for the laughs this morning. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.


nah, not really. just because you waited to see if the band wagon against Fresh got big enough for you to hide behind and speak freely doesn't mean i tucked anything. if anything, you're the joke, so the only one that you're laughing at is yourself.
think about, you see me posting the shit that i kick, you don't say anything then. next you start to see one person speak up, you don't say anything then either. now a few more people speak up, 2 days later you decided to voice your opinion, and on top of that it's directed right at me. you tell me who's the clown, clown?

all you've shown was the lack of back bone that most seem to lack around here. i guess that's why my page has have a 1000 views in the last few days and no one is talking about my growing skills after they checked my albums out.


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## chuck estevez (Mar 19, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> nah, not really. just because you waited to see if the band wagon against Fresh got big enough for you to hide behind and speak freely doesn't mean i tucked anything. if anything, you're the joke, so the only one that you're laughing at is yourself.
> think about, you see me posting the shit that i kick, you don't say anything then. next you start to see one person speak up, you don't say anything then either. now a few more people speak up, 2 days later you decided to voice your opinion, and on top of that it's directed right at me. you tell me who's the clown, clown?
> 
> all you've shown was the lack of back bone that most seem to lack around here. i guess that's why my page has have a 1000 views in the last few days and no one is talking about my growing skills after they checked my albums out.


let me tell you something, this will offend a lot of people, but I don't care who gets butthurt,BUT, The REAL GROWERS, Those that know there shit, are not on RIU posting pics looking for a pat on the back, Your so insecure about your skills, your here puffing your chest out. DUDE, I live in so cal, I have smoked weed for over 30 years. I have smoked weed you wish you could smoke someday. I know growers that have more experience in there right nut than you have in your whole vagina. On top of that, PICS, don't prove shit. What else you got?


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 19, 2013)

PLATINUM777 said:


> So after reading the entire thread I came to a conclusion to not fuck with my fan leaves. ))) this is the answer I been waiting for.


Now let me see if I understand this prevalent need to arrive at a consensus. You could have had your epiphany by sticking your head into a book on indoor plant culture, botany, but you learned it by sticking your head into a forum of stoners who use trickery and bullshit to make their case? It's called 'science' mah friend.

Hah!


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 19, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> ...I have smoked weed for over 30 years. I have smoked weed you wish you could smoke someday.


Back in the 60's we used to smoke BAG weed that would put some of these sissies on their ass, shaking with paranoia. We called it acid grass. It was just fine Mexican pot at $10 a lid (oz).

UB


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## chuck estevez (Mar 19, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> Back in the 60's we used to smoke BAG weed that would put some of these sissies on their ass, shaking with paranoia. We called it acid grass. It was just fine Mexican pot at $10 a lid (oz).
> 
> UB


 Yep, we used to buy coffee cans full of it, if you were lucky you would get one that didn't mold. Occasionally some straight sensi bud would come around. smelled like christmas trees.


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## HeartlandHank (Mar 19, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> lol. dude ur too funny, that it's not even funny.
> 
> well being who you are, one can't blame you. if you thought removing leaves promoted upward growth or even out a canopy, that should tell or give people an idea of what type of grower you are (which is mediocre at best). if i am not mistaken, i believe you were thinking of topping or lsting, stupid. only you would think that taking a fan off promotes side or later branching.
> when it's all said and done, defoliating is about removing excess fans to create better light penetration, hence the reason why my nugs are solid from top to bottom which would normally be popcorn or immature buds no matter what genetics it was. and since you want to get technical a phenotype is 50/genetics and 50 environment, lame. being that you clearly didn't know that i tell you what it means, it means %50 of the density of my buds came from me and my growing ability and the reason why all my buds on every plant this run are dense.
> ...


Fresh, you are such a douche.. it cracks me up.

50/50... 50% your skills... hilarious.. Your little miniatures don't need leaves removed to get dense buds.bIt's funny how you tell us we think we are amazing growers and are not... then you go on to talk about how great your growing is. Fresh, the master grower...

Yes, i "so gladly" mentioned Beanho. All you know about genetics is what you are told to buy ... there is your MO. Let's hear about your Beanho experience and what is wrong with Beanho, Fresh. I suspect you won't be answering that question..

The words you put in my mouth... if you think that I think that pulling leaves increases *any* kind of growth, then you are mistaken. I have no idea what you are even trying to say with the lst and topping talk...? no clue.

My 14 week sativa is a commercial plant?  Out of all the stupid shit you wrote in there, that takes it all. A 14 wk sativa commercial plant... yeah dude. I'm out on the corner slinging my 24 inch spears of sativa. I'm wrapping them up in hemp twine and taking them to the frat house this afternoon... comedy.

As to your commercial yields thing... you got me there.I used to select the prettiest buds not taking any other aspect into account. I got over that a long time ago. I've still got a few of them. A Tom Hill deep chunk plant that I have held in veg for a few years untouched... beautiful top shelf stuff.
These days, the last of my interest is in genetics I have yet to see and helping family members out with smoke. I am selecting for larger yields and clean sativa highs... trying to get some kicks along the way. I am about one year away from having only 3 back yard fem plants from seed. Just waiting on a few family members to relocate.
I deal with plants 6 days a week, im not talking cannabis plants. I have more non cannabis plants at home to take care of than cannabis. The last thing I want to do when I get home from work is baby my little kush/hash plants so I can feel more secure about having the prettiest buds. I got over that shit in my teen years.
You are growing some nice little boutique buds. I find your quality first yield second thing admirable. Throwing your little punches and running off is cowardly though. 

That G13 plant, with the nodes removed... I saw Dr Gruber lose a LB of buds to mold, from the same pack of seeds... I removed the inner nodes to make sure that the same did not happen to me. The plant has unnatural sized large growth. Removing some growth was just a precaution... I'm sure you do not have to worry about such things with your little mini plants. They are real cute btw... On a serious note.. they do look of high quality.. nice job Fresh. 

Like i said before... you can get maturity, dense buds, from top to bottom without defoliating and without hurting your yields.
I can help you with that if you want... just ask nicely. Don't sweat it bud... I can go eeeextra slow, just for you.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 19, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> he lives in New york(explains a lot) and grows in tents(explains a lot) and talks out of his ass. I have all The proof of him being a douchebag I need.


All you ever do is insult people. How cool.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 19, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> let me tell you something, this will offend a lot of people, but I don't care who gets butthurt,BUT, The REAL GROWERS, Those that know there shit, are not on RIU posting pics looking for a pat on the back, Your so insecure about your skills, your here puffing your chest out. DUDE, I live in so cal, I have smoked weed for over 30 years. I have smoked weed you wish you could smoke someday. I know growers that have more experience in there right nut than you have in your whole vagina. On top of that, PICS, don't prove shit. What else you got?


Whatever dude. I've lived in norcal all my life. My buddies grow your overpriced socal weed for past 30 years. You hears of LA Confidential? My buddy grew one of it's parents for years and knows the LA Con breeder personally. I smoked girl scout cookies with him just yesterday.


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## chuck estevez (Mar 19, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> All you ever do is insult people. How cool.


Dude came into the thread spilling crap out of his mouth, I simply wiped it up with a towel. All you do is troll UB. How cool.


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## chuck estevez (Mar 19, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> Whatever dude. I've lived in norcal all my life. My buddies grow your overpriced socal weed for past 30 years. You hears of LA Confidential? My buddy grew one of it's parents for years and knows the LA Con breeder personally. I smoked girl scout cookies with him just yesterday.


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## HeartlandHank (Mar 19, 2013)

Alexander Supertramp said:


> I have finally come to one solid conclusion when it comes to this thread. Fresh2dealth is without a doubt the single biggest idiot on RIU. Sorry Bmeat, you need to move over cause there is a new King in town. And please Fresh2dealth share some more pics of your weak shit with us.....


Fresh is fucking comedy... I like Tree King more. Tree King is equally clueless but not an asshole.


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## HeartlandHank (Mar 19, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> Whatever dude. I've lived in norcal all my life. My buddies grow your overpriced socal weed for past 30 years. You hears of LA Confidential? My buddy grew one of it's parents for years and knows the LA Con breeder personally. I smoked girl scout cookies with him just yesterday.


Watch out guys... we got a badass here..


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 19, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> Dude came into the thread spilling crap out of his mouth, I simply wiped it up with a towel. All you do is troll UB. How cool.


No you got it wrong. I troll trolls, which is why I'm responding to you this morning.


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## chuck estevez (Mar 19, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> No you got it wrong. I troll trolls, which is why I'm responding to you this morning.


your not very good at this,are you? 1 star


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## HeartlandHank (Mar 19, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> and no one is talking about my growing skills after they checked my albums out.


Fresh, buddy, chill... your buds look good man. Damn...
Who took that chunk out of your shoulder?


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## akula (Mar 19, 2013)

HeartlandHank said:


> Watch out guys... we got a badass here..


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## akula (Mar 19, 2013)

HeartlandHank said:


> Fresh, buddy, chill... your buds look good man. Damn...
> Who took that chunk out of your shoulder?


Its funny the subjects that bring up such emotions as these. It happens when you threaten someones status-quo that they have developed via faith alone. Think of these kind of discussions and the emotions they bring out with religion. These are virtually the same. These emotions are also prevalent in discussions like this one, flushing, some nutrients etc. These are also discussions highly reliant on faith alone. 


When I first entered this topic on a different thread, I was actually neutral. I asked a simple question or presentation of some scientific study, peer reviewed paper, theory or even a hypothesis that backed the idea of defoliation. None was ever given. The best I got was a slew of irrelevant studies with cherry picked quotes. The studies themselves were not pro defoliation to increase yields, they were how to overcome natural defoliation by manipulating and optimizing that defoliation in different ways. Again these are tactics that desperate people that have nothing but faith to back their position to act and react. 

Oh well.


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## Kite High (Mar 19, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> hmm, i see why your mad now too. i hate to tell you, but gh 3part with the edition of useless formula is killing the dyna gro. i used dyna gro every way it could possibly be used and it still was mediocre compared to the gh 3part/useless combo. don't get me wrong, the plants came out nice, but didn't get no where as dense or as frosty as the gh 3part/useless combo.
> for you, it's definitely well suited. mediocre nutes for a mediocre grow that produces mediocre results. and don't know where you got this idea that you grow a huge plant that you're automatically considered a top notch grower, because that is far from the case and any real grower will tell you the same. also, i seen a noobie produce better buds than you, same elongated structure with a lot more frost than the swag you posted, so your post of these commercial plants isn't impressing me at all.
> don't know what type of response you expect when you post up commercial buds that looks to yield commercially, isn't that what it's suppose to do? *DUH*.
> 
> ...


i forgot more about growing and genetics than you will ever know...bodhi raskal? Gimme a break...anyone can make crosses and name therm...no one even really knows where their lines come from...when you grow up a bit you will see the error in your ways...speaking of genetics I will be selfing some Ortega Deathweed very soon...something you can never even acquire....please stop as you are really showing your ignorance


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## Kite High (Mar 19, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> hmm, i see why your mad now too. i hate to tell you, but gh 3part with the edition of useless formula is killing the dyna gro. i used dyna gro every way it could possibly be used and it still was mediocre compared to the gh 3part/useless combo. don't get me wrong, the plants came out nice, but didn't get no where as dense or as frosty as the gh 3part/useless combo.
> for you, it's definitely well suited. mediocre nutes for a mediocre grow that produces mediocre results. and don't know where you got this idea that you grow a huge plant that you're automatically considered a top notch grower, because that is far from the case and any real grower will tell you the same. also, i seen a noobie produce better buds than you, same elongated structure with a lot more frost than the swag you posted, so your post of these commercial plants isn't impressing me at all.
> don't know what type of response you expect when you post up commercial buds that looks to yield commercially, isn't that what it's suppose to do? *DUH*.
> 
> ...


if you would rerad rather than just look at the pics you would know that they still have 7 weeks to go...if you grew them they would be 18 inches tall and dwarfed to shit.,..once again your words merely demonstrate your ignorance...and I told you I go by a different moniker, IOW child a different Name on icmag...also read the test report I posted and then you will see just how stupid you are sounding...20% thc schwag...lol

And as for 
Positronics, Werner is one of the best and most respected breeders ever...also the first to sell cannabis seeds openly

dude just cause you like these so called NEW BETTER breeders doesn't mean they are the best...they are jokes...anyone can make unstabilized crosses from clones....when you grow up try some real breeders gears that are true breeding...and if you ever think you can grow grow some sativas and lets see your true skills


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## HeartlandHank (Mar 19, 2013)

Thanks, I was a little short on time to find it... haha.


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## cannawizard (Mar 19, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> Back in the 60's we used to smoke BAG weed that would put some of these sissies on their ass, shaking with paranoia. We called it acid grass. It was just fine Mexican pot at $10 a lid (oz).
> 
> UB


Wish I could have tried some of those strains.. lol wasn't born yet  
Tho i'am finding some "acid paranoia grass" among asian sativas, takes forever to F'n finish (even under indoor light manipulation) but the harvested buds are so worth it~ I love og kush highs (especially in the morning with some good coffee--not talking bout starbucks).. but nothing compares to the mental space trips from certain sativa-dom strains~


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## HeartlandHank (Mar 19, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> as far my skills, like i said, my pics speaks for themselves. get over yourself homegirl, you're not that much of a beast as you thought you was. get better genetics and learn how to grow better than i'll have some respect for your skills.
> 
> also Positronics is even the league of Bodhi, Pisces, Top Dawg, Raredankness, OG Rascal and so on and so on. you can fool some of these noobs into thinking that but not all. they will see you for the mediocre grower that you are once they learn how to read plants and grow better than you, which shouldn't be too long.


Yeah man... everyone knows the goal is to be on that "Fresh" level of skills. Fresh has those skills that everyone wants. You come up short, but Fresh is throwin down the buds with his skills. Just look at his pics... They speak for him. Cause only a bro with mad skills could grow buds like that. Growin those nugs with his skills.. He's like a mad scientist, with mad growin skills. 

His tent is packed... Wall to wall brother... wall to wall. Packin them walls cause that is how you do it when you have mad skills... You grow in a tent, and you pack that shit from wall to wall if you have mad skills. His skills was always good, but then he started plucking some leaves off. This was when his skills turned it up a bit to MAD SKILLS!.

He's getting beans from his boys... Shit you don't even know about. He only gets the best gear because only the best can live up to his mad skills and what he is capable of with his skills.

Fresh grows with a 62 part feed formula because that is how you do it when you got mad skills. More bottles, more buds, that is what fresh always says. If you ain't got the skills, then you don't know..

How long did it take you to get these skills Fresh? I wanna hear more about your skills.


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## Po boy (Mar 19, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> First hand experience for me shows NOT to take any fan leafs... in fact, this has me nervous to even pull a fan leaf off if its big enough to block 8 plants lol.


thanks for finishing your experiment. it does answer a lot of arguments.

for you non believers, ricky's experiment and Uncle Ben's comments are all you need to know.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 19, 2013)

Kite High said:


> And as for
> Positronics, Werner is one of the best and most respected breeders ever...also the first to sell cannabis seeds openly


Indeed. My avatar is a Werner Positronics Jack Herer. Is he still living, breeding, and selling stock? That is one guy I'd still spring some money on for his genetics. Many years ago I corresponded with "Genefinder" aka Sjoerd of The Flying Dutchmen about Werner and I vaguely remember he was out of the cannabis picture.

UB


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 20, 2013)

Po boy said:


> thanks for finishing your experiment. it does answer a lot of arguments.
> 
> for you non believers, ricky's experiment and Uncle Ben's comments are all you need to know.


Just make sure that you know also that in ricky's experiment, he removed leaves from ALL his plants. Two of his plants had the leaves completely stripped, and the other 10 were moderately defoliated. That's the real truth.


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Mar 20, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> Dude came into the thread spilling crap out of his mouth, I simply wiped it up with a towel. All you do is troll UB. How cool.


hmm, what did you clean up? it seems the only thing that got cleaned up was you.

as for my skills that you so gladly hate on, my pics display my skills in all it's fullness. if you or anyone else would like for me to post them up anywhere of your choice, i'll gladly do so just to see what type of response they'll bring. i guarantee that others will strongly disagree with anything you dudes have to say that speaks against my level of skills.

also, i hear all this talk about sativa's and how i'll stunt and fuck them up while growing them out, i got a surprise for all the haters. will post back up when their in 12/12, which isn't to far from now. i wonder what else they're going to say when i knock another grow right out of the park, especially something they claim i couldn't grow?


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## chuck estevez (Mar 20, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> hmm, what did you clean up? it seems the only thing that got cleaned up was you.
> 
> as for my skills that you so gladly hate on, my pics display my skills in all it's fullness. if you or anyone else would like for me to post them up anywhere of your choice, i'll gladly do so just to see what type of response they'll bring. i guarantee that others will strongly disagree with anything you dudes have to say that speaks against my level of skills.
> 
> also, i hear all this talk about sativa's and how i'll stunt and fuck them up while growing them out, i got a surprise for all the haters. will post back up when their in 12/12, which isn't to far from now. i wonder what else they're going to say when i knock another grow right out of the park, especially something they claim i couldn't grow?


 Guess you didn't read the last 2 pages where everyone is Laughing at You. Remember when you said this?
*

im going to fall back from this thread






​




*


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## Sir.Ganga (Mar 20, 2013)

Man Im so sick of these guys, you got one wanting nothing but praise,"Im soo good""Look everyone I know someone important"'I know everything" Right uncle popcorn? Then his two bit cronie, ya know the french model, his avatar doesn't lie thats for sure, he grows about as much as he's a model, Right Chucky? And lastly mister kite high...looks like he might have skills but because of a self esteem issue will follow and follow only...Poor soul.

You state outdated facts show us crappy pics or none at all?? The only thing that prooves is that you three are your own worst enemies, so get over yourselves, throw some real proof on the table or shut the fuck up!


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Mar 20, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> Guess you didn't read the last 2 pages where everyone is Laughing at You. Remember when you said this?
> *
> 
> im going to fall back from this thread
> ...


see this is why you're the joke, i've been asked to come back. you're so lame they don't even keep you informed of what's going on. it definitely shows that you ride the bench or in the background to only fill the rest of the picture, that's being painted or told, up. you're just the extra in this movie dude, learn your role and stay in your place, lol. 

also, you're not witty enough to play this game, so you get no more attention. i'll address anyone else but you. that doesn't mean i have you on ignore (Fresh don't do that), but would rather spend time with someone that's going to keep the argument/debate fun at least.


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## chuck estevez (Mar 20, 2013)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^you guys make me laugh my ass off, your so angry that KNOW ONE will listen to your bullshit way of growing.


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## chuck estevez (Mar 20, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> see this is why you're the joke, i've been asked to come back. you're so lame they don't even keep you informed of what's going on. it definitely shows that you ride the bench or in the background to only fill the rest of the picture, that's being painted or told, up. you're just the extra in this movie dude, learn your role and stay in your place, lol.
> 
> also, you're not witty enough to play this game, so you get no more attention. *i'll address anyone else but you*. that doesn't mean i have you on ignore (Fresh don't do that), but would rather spend time with someone that's going to keep the argument/debate fun at least.


 I got your # little girl, I bet you can't resist not replying to me. I got 5 on it.


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Mar 20, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^you guys make me laugh my ass off, your so angry that KNOW ONE will listen to your bullshit way of growing.


dude, this is what your not getting, i never tried to convince anyone to grow like me. the point i brought to the table is that defoliating works if done right. you're so stupid, i bet you think that defoliating and pruning is two different things. if you were paying attention, someone alluded to that fact a couple pages back. being that you were to busy riding nuts and to stupid to realize the significance behind his post, you missed it.


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Mar 20, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> I got your # little girl, I bet you can't resist not replying to me. I got 5 on it.


same here, if i am not mistaken you replied to me and not the other way around.


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## chuck estevez (Mar 20, 2013)

Sir.Ganga said:


> Man Im so sick of these guys, you got one wanting nothing but praise,"Im soo good""Look everyone I know someone important"'I know everything" Right uncle popcorn? Then his two bit cronie, ya know the french model,* his avatar doesn't lie thats for sure,* he grows about as much as he's a model, Right Chucky? And lastly mister kite high...looks like he might have skills but because of a self esteem issue will follow and follow only...Poor soul.
> 
> You state outdated facts show us crappy pics or none at all?? The only thing that prooves is that you three are your own worst enemies, so get over yourselves, throw some real proof on the table or shut the fuck up!


 wow, your so smart, Let me help you out a little, chuck rhymes with fuck. Have fun


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## chuck estevez (Mar 20, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> same here, if i am not mistaken you replied to me and not the other way around.


BWAHAHAHAHAH!!, pay up sucka


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Mar 20, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> BWAHAHAHAHAH!!, pay up sucka


lol. i guess we're even.

if you want, i'll throw you under the wing. is that what you want? it sure seems like it.


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## chuck estevez (Mar 20, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> lol. i guess we're even.
> 
> if you want, i'll throw you under the wing. is that what you want? it sure seems like it.


thought you were going to ignore me, but if you want to continue to make yourself look stupid, be my guest.


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## akula (Mar 20, 2013)

Sir.Ganga said:


> Man Im so sick of these guys, you got one wanting nothing but praise,"Im soo good""Look everyone I know someone important"'I know everything" Right uncle popcorn? Then his two bit cronie, ya know the french model, his avatar doesn't lie thats for sure, he grows about as much as he's a model, Right Chucky? And lastly mister kite high...looks like he might have skills but because of a self esteem issue will follow and follow only...Poor soul.
> 
> You state outdated facts show us crappy pics or none at all?? The only thing that prooves is that you three are your own worst enemies, so get over yourselves, throw some real proof on the table or shut the fuck up!



Wow. That's like pro-level buthurt. That's quite impressive really.


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## chuck estevez (Mar 20, 2013)

akula said:


> Wow. That's like pro-level buthurt. That's quite impressive really.


The funny thing is, it's EXACTLY the same thing he cries all the time, he could just copy and paste the same paragraph every time he posts. He wants pics and he wants them now, he also wants a pat on the back for posting his stressed plants. REAL GROWERS don't need ANYONE's approval.


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Mar 20, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> The funny thing is, it's EXACTLY the same thing he cries all the time, he could just copy and paste the same paragraph every time he posts. He wants pics and he wants them now, he also wants a pat on the back for posting his stressed plants. REAL GROWERS don't need ANYONE's approval.


i never said i was going to ignore you, just said wasn't going to respond back to you. but it seems like you want to become a Fresh Jr. so i am asking, do you?

also, stop telling lies to cover up you for your lack of knowing. i see what you're doing and anyone with common sense recognized that you've been exposed. you're a fan with no valid points and just came here to show support, even if you look stupid while doing it.


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## akula (Mar 20, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> i never said i was going to ignore you, just said wasn't going to respond back to you. but it seems like you want to become a Fresh Jr. so i am asking, do you?
> 
> also, stop telling lies to cover up you for your lack of knowing. i see what you're doing and anyone with common sense recognized that you've been exposed. you're a fan with no valid points and just came here to show support, even if you look stupid while doing it.


A fan of what exacty?

You guys have some mind boggling, incoherent rants.


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## chuck estevez (Mar 20, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> *i never said i was going to ignore you, just said wasn't going to respond back to you*. but it seems like you want to become a Fresh Jr. so i am asking, do you?
> 
> also, stop telling lies to cover up you for your lack of knowing. i see what you're doing and anyone with common sense recognized that you've been exposed. you're a fan with no valid points and just came here to show support, even if you look stupid while doing it.


*ig·nore*

Refuse to take notice of or acknowledge; disregard intentionally: "he ignored her question".


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Mar 20, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> *ig·nore*
> 
> Refuse to take notice of or acknowledge; disregard intentionally: "he ignored her question".


hmm, if you noticed there's a "but" in there which indicates with the exception you wanting to be a Fresh JR that you have my full attention. Duhhhhh.


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## chuck estevez (Mar 20, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> hmm, if you noticed there's a "but" in there which indicates with the exception you wanting to be a Fresh JR that you have my full attention. Duhhhhh.


Keep it coming, your intelligence is shining thru. your a legend in your own mind


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Mar 20, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> Keep it coming, your intelligence is shining thru. your a legend in your own mind


i guess you must of looked the word "but" up and realized how intelligent you're not. lol.


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## chuck estevez (Mar 20, 2013)

Fresh 2 [email protected] said:


> i guess you must of looked the word "but" up and realized how intelligent you're not. lol.


My mistake, i typed Butt by accident and Butthurt came up followed by your name.


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## potroastV2 (Mar 20, 2013)

That's enough of this bickering Girls, ALL of you are pretty!


Sorry Ricky, the girls have to go to bed now.


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