# What will legal marijuana mean for safety sensitive jobs and drug testing?



## ThcGuy (Jul 16, 2017)

As everyone is aware Canada plans on making recreational marijuana use legal by July 2018. However as hard as I try, I cannot find any info about how this will affect current rules and regulations regarding it's use by people who hold jobs that are "safety sensitive" and are required to submit to drug testing as a condition of employment.

The only articles I can find are about medicinal use at work or on the job recreational use. But what I am trying to find out, is can a worker be tested and suspended or fired for testing positive for marijuana after recreational marijuana is legalized if the worker is only using marijuana off company premises while not on company time?

Can companies say you are never allowed to use marijuana (in Canada) once it becomes legal?


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## OldMedUser (Jul 16, 2017)

Some companies already get rid of cigarette smokers and won't hire smokers so I imagine they can do the same with pot smokers too if they want. Like a lot of the oil companies in Alberta here they had to back off on testing as most of their best rig-pigs toked off the clock and finding good guys was hard to do. Not so busy now so they can afford to be choosier about who they employ.

Just another aspect of re-legalization that will have to be fought over in the courts making the lawyers richer yet.


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## ThcGuy (Jul 16, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> Some companies already get rid of cigarette smokers and won't hire smokers so I imagine they can do the same with pot smokers too if they want. Like a lot of the oil companies in Alberta here they had to back off on testing as most of their best rig-pigs toked off the clock and finding good guys was hard to do. Not so busy now so they can afford to be choosier about who they employ.
> 
> Just another aspect of re-legalization that will have to be fought over in the courts making the lawyers richer yet.


Yeah the oil patch is a dying industry here. I worked everything from lease hand to drilling consultant over the past 20 years. Enform, Alberta's leading oilfield training center is pushing the government to allow oil companies to continue using a positive thc drug test as a reason not to hire new employees and suspend or fire existing employees even after marijuana becomes legal. It pisses me off how the corporate world thinks they can dictate what we do in our personal lives.


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## greg nr (Jul 16, 2017)

Same thing south of the border. The feds aren't hard to understand; hell no, no way, prescription or not, no.

But private employers also will fire you if you test positive while employed, and won't hire you in a pre-employment screen if you test positive.

Again, it doesn't matter whether or not you have a prescription. They just say no......


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## ThcGuy (Jul 16, 2017)

greg nr said:


> Same thing south of the border. The feds aren't hard to understand; hell no, no way, prescription or not, no.
> 
> But private employers also will fire you if you test positive while employed, and won't hire you in a pre-employment screen if you test positive.
> 
> Again, it doesn't matter whether or not you have a prescription. They just say no......


It's unfortunate that even in legal states, all a company has to do to persecute marijuana users is follow Federal laws as marijuana is still an illegal drug nation wide at the federal level in the U.S..

However in Canada it will be 100% legal at all levels of government nation wide but corporations don't care and want the right to disregard the law to suit their ass backward views on marijuana use. But I can go home drink myself into a stupor, beat my wife, kick my dog and the corporations don't give a shit about that. It's fucked up and I think the fight won't be over for a long time even after full legalization.


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## OldMedUser (Jul 16, 2017)

I worked as a water hauler for 10 years and always drove other guys trucks as a contractor so they never tested me. I'd be having a toke while filling the rig tank and listening to good tunes in the cab. 

I'd park the truck, shut off the motor and climb up on the roof to smoke a bowl while watching and listening to the northern lights in the middle of nowhere. The far north is pretty trippy even without the pot. 

Can't work no more so just work for myself growing pot and would never get myself tested as I know what the results will show.

Even worse is the new impaired driving laws our gov't is trying to push through now. Be able to demand a test even if there is no hint of impairment or reasonable cause. Talk about Big Brotherism that our current dictator is trying to force on us.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-impaired-driving-changes-1.4069889


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## ThcGuy (Jul 16, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> I'd park the truck, shut off the motor and climb up on the roof to smoke a bowl while watching and listening to the northern lights in the middle of nowhere. The far north is pretty trippy even without the pot.


Check out the northern lights tonight, they are supposed to really be rocking tonight.


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## OldMedUser (Jul 16, 2017)

Heard about that and hoping for clear skies tonight but not looking good atm.

Every evening the big clouds roll in and the thunderstorms start scaring my 16 year old dog half to death. lol

He went and hid down in the basement a few days ago and we had to carry his 100lb ass back up the stairs as he can't do stairs very well any more. Tried some hi-CBD oil on a Milk Bone but that didn't seem to help after a few days of dosing him with it.

I've seen lots of pretty spectacular northern lights when working up near the territories so not too worried if I miss them tonight.


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## combatant (Aug 21, 2017)

One thing I found in my employment tenure is the jobs I was tested for were basically slave labor type jobs. I figure when the employer sees someone who gives up their rights to get the job, then they can treat them however they want. I find it amazing how many people actually believe in drug testing. I always tried to avoid jobs that drug tested. I would even call their hypocrisy out on it as they let people who smoke tobacco and drink alcohol on their payroll. In any case, out of the few I did take, I never failed one. Also, you never know what they are really checking for in a "drug" test.

Most employers, other than the government, can fire you with no reason given. When you are trading your time for money, your time belongs to the employer and not you. OldMedUser did the right thing. He went into his own business. I have ridden with many people who were either drinking, or had used some type of substance and were able to drive just fine. Some even drove better under the influence of the substance.


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## TacoMac (Aug 21, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> Can companies say you are never allowed to use marijuana (in Canada) once it becomes legal?


In a word, yes.

Alcohol is legal, yet you're not permitted to work drunk, are you?

Firearms are legal, but most employers wouldn't allow you to walk around the office with an AK47.

Just because something is legal for your personal use doesn't mean anybody else has to adopt it.


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## ThcGuy (Aug 21, 2017)

TacoMac said:


> In a word, yes.
> 
> Alcohol is legal, yet you're not permitted to work drunk, are you?
> 
> ...


Who said anything about doing it at work?

I can have a beer with my steak on the weekend that I shot the week before with my gun and nobody can do anything about that. 

What gives them the right to fire someone for testing positive for THC when it becomes legal across the country next year? 

I'm not saying that it should be allowed at the workplace but in your off hours, should they be able to stop you from partaking in a completely legal activity?


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## ThcGuy (Aug 21, 2017)

TacoMac said:


> In a word, yes.
> 
> Alcohol is legal, yet you're not permitted to work drunk, are you?
> 
> ...


Also fully automatic guns like AK47's are illegal in Canada period. Nobody can have them anywhere.


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## TacoMac (Aug 21, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> What gives them the right to fire someone for testing positive for THC when it becomes legal across the country next year?


Because it's their company, that's why.

Marijuana stays in your system a good deal longer than alcohol does. So, if you drink that beer, by the time you go to work the next day, it's gone. If they were to test you for alcohol, you would have none in your system. So, by that rational, anything that you were to do wrong (especially something that got someone hurt or caused damage) could not be attributed to alcohol or you use of it.

But marijuana doesn't work that way. Depending on how much you smoke, it can stay in your system for days. That opens a company up for liability when you do something wrong that DOES cause harm or damage and you get tested and test positive for marijuana.

It's not up to a company to take all the risk because of something you want to do.

It is up to you to do whatever the company requires of you in order to work for them.

You don't like it, don't work. It's that simple.


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## ThcGuy (Aug 21, 2017)

TacoMac said:


> Because it's their company, that's why.
> 
> Marijuana stays in your system a good deal longer than alcohol does. So, if you drink that beer, by the time you go to work the next day, it's gone. If they were to test you for alcohol, you would have none in your system. So, by that rational, anything that you were to do wrong (especially something that got someone hurt or caused damage) could not be attributed to alcohol or you use of it.
> 
> ...


So are you trying to say that someone who smokes a joint on a Saturday night out is still impaired a week later if they test positive for THC?


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## TacoMac (Aug 21, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> So are you trying to say that someone who smokes a joint on a Saturday night out is still impaired a week later if they test positive for THC?


Being impaired has nothing to do with it. Liability does.

The law isn't going to care if you weren't stoned when you ran your forklift over a guy and killed him. All they're going to care about is that you had THC in your system.

That's it. Case closed. The company gets sued clear to Mars and WILL lose. Guaranteed.

No company in its right mind is going to take that chance. That's all there is to it.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Aug 21, 2017)

It's not even neccesarily the companies worked for that cares about the pot. The insurance companies mandate these decisions mostly.


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## ThcGuy (Aug 21, 2017)

TacoMac said:


> Being impaired has nothing to do with it. Liability does.
> 
> The law isn't going to care if you weren't stoned when you ran your forklift over a guy and killed him. All they're going to care about is that you had THC in your system.
> 
> ...


Let me clarify this for you, I live in Canada and in Canada our Federal government is legalizing marijuana across the entire country. It's not going to be like the half assed legalization that some states in the US are allowing where it is legal at the State level but still illegal at the federal level. Having it illegal federally allows employers continue following federal regulations and treat cannabis users like criminals and drug abusers. 

It is going to be a completely different system in Canada. Cannabis is going to be legal federally across the entire country. 

In the case of someone killing a coworker with a fork lift the RCMP (Canadian Police) would request a blood test to prove impairment not a urine test. THC is only detectable in blood for a very short time after cannabis use, I'm talking hours not days or weeks like a urine test. Therefore it would be no different than alcohol in that aspect. 

However there are certain industries in Canada like the oilfield for instance that want to keep urine testing for THC after it becomes legal. But they will not be allowed to do this anymore because it will be against the Canadian charter of human rights (basically meaning it's none of their business according to the Canadian courts). These companies in industries like the oilfield are currently petitioning parliament to give them an exemption to allow them to maintain their complete ban on THC and allow them to discipline workers for a positive test (It's not going well for them currently).

When I started this thread I was asking if these companies would be allowed to continue urine testing for THC for employees and potential new hires and since then I have found out that they won't. 

They can at most do a mouth swab or blood tests to prove impairment (like alcohol) but they will no longer be allowed to urine test for THC after July 01, 2018 because it will be a legal substance and considered discrimination according to Canadian law.


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## TacoMac (Aug 21, 2017)

When all your corporations start getting sued for endless millions of dollars and they all go bankrupt because they knowingly let people who use mind impairing drugs work for them with complete autonomy and ruin the lives of others with their mistakes, I'll remember you said that.


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## ThcGuy (Aug 21, 2017)

TacoMac said:


> When all your corporations start getting sued for endless millions of dollars and they all go bankrupt because they knowingly let people who use mind impairing drugs work for them with complete autonomy and ruin the lives of others with their mistakes, I'll remember you said that.


It will be treated like alcohol and you will be tested for impairment not prior use. If you are not impaired then at the time of an accident then you cannot be charged or sued.


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## OldMedUser (Aug 22, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> It will be treated like alcohol and you will be tested for impairment not prior use. If you are not impaired then at the time of an accident then you cannot be charged or sued.


The big problem is pot is about the only drug that stays so long in your system. Crack heads test clean in 48 hours ans so do most other junkies. Or boozers.

If you have a script for opiods and test for opiods then you are good to go because it's an doctor prescribed medication. My pot is doctor prescribed but I'd be canned if I fail a test for pot. WTF!

The BS of it is is that those drug tests don't pick up THC. They pick up the metabolites of THC that get stored in the fat cells of your body and slowly leach out into your blood then get excreted by your kidneys into your urine a bit at a time over weeks or even months depending on the rate of your usage and the amount of body fat you pack around. A skinny old fart like me that smokes little but uses a lot of edibles can be clean in a couple weeks. My lard-ass buddy that smokes a few joints a month can test positive for 3 or 4 months.

They keep trying to equate pot to alcohol when it comes to impairment and it's like comparing apples to oranges. Totally different things. If you blow .08 you got a buzz from booze that is scientifically proven to cause impairment in a smaller man like myself or my lard-ass buddy. There's nothing like it to test for pot smokers. Two small hits in my pipe has me almost wasted where plenty of guys my size can bogart a big fattie of the same pot and be barely feeling it. I've been smoking pot just shy of 50 years and have almost no tolerance. Maybe because I have at least 7 or 8 strains plush hash, kief, cocobudder, BHO etc at hand all the time I never build up enough tolerance I don't know. About 75% of the pot I consume is cocobudder as it works way better for me than smoked pot to help my arthritis and depression.

When I was working in the oil patch they had saliva test strips that they used in cases where maybe the boss walked round the corner and caught you blasting a J with a buddy. It just indicated the presence of THC and if tested a couple hours later would be negative. That's the kind of test the cops should be using like the hand-held breathalyzer to see if you've done pot recently then if that is positive they send you for further testing like blood. Speaking of blood I'm off to the clinic soon to donate my 47th pint so go help your fellow man and give a pint as often as you can. You will feel better both physically and spiritually knowing that you just wiped out a lot of minor sins off St. Peter's list!  3 bears after a donation will make you legless! 

In twenty years they will have it all figured out but I'll be pushing up pot plants long before then. Just happy to smoke a legal joint before I cash in my chips. Don't grind me up for fertilizer if you want to grow organic!


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## OldMedUser (Aug 22, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> However there are certain industries in Canada like the oilfield for instance that want to keep urine testing for THC after it becomes legal. But they will not be allowed to do this anymore because it will be against the Canadian charter of human rights (basically meaning it's none of their business according to the Canadian courts). These companies in industries like the oilfield are currently petitioning parliament to give them an exemption to allow them to maintain their complete ban on THC and allow them to discipline workers for a positive test (It's not going well for them currently).
> 
> When I started this thread I was asking if these companies would be allowed to continue urine testing for THC for employees and potential new hires and since then I have found out that they won't.
> 
> They can at most do a mouth swab or blood tests to prove impairment (like alcohol) but they will no longer be allowed to urine test for THC after July 01, 2018 because it will be a legal substance and considered discrimination according to Canadian law.


This is news to me and I'm not convinced it's correct. The new rules regarding re-legalization are yet in the fermenting stage and not even close to being laws and I seriously doubt that Trudeau the 2nd will pull it off by next Cannabis Day on July 1.

I'm not calling BS here but it's way too early to be counting your chickens as yet. If he prorogues the gov't all the work done in parliament to push forward re-legalization goes right back to square 1 and the process starts anew. There is still the details about international drug laws that Canada signed decades ago that have to be dealt with yet and that's like opting out of NATO if we just say FU and it's legal here now.

Trudeau is just another lying, rat-bastard LibTard like his old man who was PM when I was about 13. I've voted a straight NDP ticket since I was old enough to vote. I miss Jack Layton so much. He would have had this crap done years ago.

Good luck to us all!


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## rollersmokergirl (Sep 6, 2017)

It's madness how it got into the narcotic list without any solid base! A lot of scientists' studies have been held back by the criminalization of weed. Outrageous!


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## OldMedUser (Sep 6, 2017)

I wonder what the nanogram limit will be for oxys and other doctor prescribed narcotics. Funny we haven't heard anything about that.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Sep 6, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> I wonder what the nanogram limit will be for oxys and other doctor prescribed narcotics. Funny we haven't heard anything about that.



All kinds of measures are taken to control narcotics. 

When I was in Florida they were dispensing in a package that only allowed the patient to ingest what was perscribed. It supposedly destroyed the meds if tampered with. I never saw it though. I don't take pain meds much. They make me sick. 

And of course the prescription laws themselves are meant to regulate use. 

But people will always find a black market for what they want anyway.


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## greg nr (Sep 10, 2017)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> All kinds of measures are taken to control narcotics.
> 
> When I was in Florida they were dispensing in a package that only allowed the patient to ingest what was perscribed. It supposedly destroyed the meds if tampered with. I never saw it though. I don't take pain meds much. They make me sick.
> 
> ...


Are you referring to mmj?

Florida was, and is, the opiate capitol of america. They had "pain" clinics that would legally prescribe 3000 oxy's per patient. There was no cross tracking so you could go to multiple pharmacies.

It was mule heaven. 

They tightened it up, but it is apparently still possible to get crazy amounts of pain pills prescribed.


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## legalcanada (Oct 3, 2017)

@OldMedUser they can't fire you if you have prescription marijuana i asked my clinic and they told me my employer would have to provide a safe work plan for me and can't fire (discriminate) against me, and i'm in a high risk/dangerous industry although not with urine tests. 

you can always freeze clean urine, lasts a year or 2 in the freezer, just only thaw out the amount you need under hot water. some places check temperature, so its a good idea to warm it up once its in a separate container, maybe keep it on the dash of the car blasting heat or use a "hot hands" hand/glove warmer to wrap it with and keep it tight to your body... will keep it the right temp for sure, join the sub club


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## Farmer.J (Oct 3, 2017)

legalcanada said:


> @OldMedUser they can't fire you if you have prescription marijuana i asked my clinic and they told me my employer would have to provide a safe work plan for me and can't fire (discriminate) against me, and i'm in a high risk/dangerous industry although not with urine tests.


Hey can you please provide more info on this? I also have a prescription and I am a registered grower who also happens to work in the oilfield. I haven't told my boss about this, even though he knows I partake.


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## legalcanada (Oct 3, 2017)

i imagine every province will have their own regulations but your best bet would be contact a marijuana clinic in edmonton or calgary and ask them... call national access cannabis in AB and ask about employee rights.. i'm not sure about companies that drug test


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## El Viajero (Oct 19, 2017)

I think that with legalization will come acceptance. In the USA even the government agencies are having a hard time finding people who they can hire for their cyber-defense teams due to usage of cannabis. It is much more accepted and therefore much more common by younger people that eventually it will have to become a non-issue. I think that once companies cannot find qualified personnel to fill the positions that need to be filled things will start changing. Even the FBI is thinking of loosening its restrictions regarding cannabis use according to the BBC (Run a google search for FBI CIA Marijuana Computers. I can't post links as my post count is not high enough.)


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## The Emerald Brother (Jan 8, 2018)

El Viajero said:


> I think that with legalization will come acceptance. In the USA even the government agencies are having a hard time finding people who they can hire for their cyber-defense teams due to usage of cannabis. It is much more accepted and therefore much more common by younger people that eventually it will have to become a non-issue. I think that once companies cannot find qualified personnel to fill the positions that need to be filled things will start changing. Even the FBI is thinking of loosening its restrictions regarding cannabis use according to the BBC (Run a google search for FBI CIA Marijuana Computers. I can't post links as my post count is not high enough.)


I've seen a few articles discussing this.


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## VIANARCHRIS (Jan 14, 2018)

ThcGuy said:


> Can companies say you are never allowed to use marijuana (in Canada) once it becomes legal?


No. They are going to try, but they won't be successful. There is no need to test for a legal substance. They don't test for traces of alcohol or pharma drugs, why do they think they have a right dictate what happens in your home?


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## VIANARCHRIS (Jan 14, 2018)

OldMedUser said:


> f he prorogues the gov't


I've never seen a Liberal government use that tactic....that was a Harper CON goto for covering up corruption and avoiding getting the boot.
Trudeau will legalize by July, guaranteed.


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## New Age United (Jan 15, 2018)

VIANARCHRIS said:


> No. They are going to try, but they won't be successful. There is no need to test for a legal substance. They don't test for traces of alcohol or pharma drugs, why do they think they have a right dictate what happens in your home?


Actually some companies do test for alcohol, to make sure you can abstain.


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## VIANARCHRIS (Jan 15, 2018)

New Age United said:


> Actually some companies do test for alcohol, to make sure you can abstain.


 To my knowledge there is no occupation in Canada where the employer can forbid you from consuming alcohol on your own time. At least I can't think of one. They can test if they suspect you are drunk, but if you are under .05, you're sober. 
As for abstaining...I'm nearly 10 years sober, so no worries there.


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## New Age United (Jan 15, 2018)

VIANARCHRIS said:


> To my knowledge there is no occupation in Canada where the employer can forbid you from consuming alcohol on your own time. At least I can't think of one. They can test if they suspect you are drunk, but if you are under .05, you're sober.
> As for abstaining...I'm nearly 10 years sober, so no worries there.


My buddy worked in fort Mac and was tested for alcohol they told him if he can' go 4 days without drinking he can' work there.


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## VIANARCHRIS (Jan 15, 2018)

New Age United said:


> My buddy worked in fort Mac and was tested for alcohol they told him if he can' go 4 days without drinking he can' work there.


Against the law - he should be talking to his union. My son works up there and drinks like a fish. He doesn't show up for work drunk or hungover, so no issues. They have got him for THC tho...lol


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## Z3r0Z3r0 (Mar 11, 2018)

Didnt cali remove THC from list of prohibited substances? Colorado I heard might too, saw a news report of some guy in wheelchair already hired got random test and fired for THC, I think he won a settlement in court against employer since it was medical


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## hotrodharley (May 31, 2018)

Still testing for cannabis here in Alaska.


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## greg nr (May 31, 2018)

Still testing for any job related to the federal gov, also most employers test for cannabis by default for both pre-employment and random testing. 

State laws won't affect that. In MA for example, the rec law specifically allows employers to continue to test for Cannabis.


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## TacoMac (Jun 2, 2018)

It's this simple:

Drinking is legal, right? Do they allow you to drink on the job?

No. They don't.

Why? Because it impairs peoples judgment, decision making and reflexes and can lead to accidents.

Marijuana is no different. You can come up with any lame excuses you want about how it doesn't effect your skills, but fact of the matter is that it does. It will be handled the same exact way that alcohol is for the foreseeable future.

The reason for that? Primarily, it's insurance.

No company will *EVER *be able to insure itself against accidents if it allows people using impairing substances to do safety sensitive jobs.

It's not rocket science, folks. It's simple common sense. (Which of course a very large majority of pot smokers lost along the way somewhere.)


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## greg nr (Jun 2, 2018)

TacoMac said:


> It's this simple:
> 
> Drinking is legal, right? Do they allow you to drink on the job?
> 
> ...


I get your point, but alcohol is only a recreational drug. The AMA lists it as having zero medical uses. It used to be listed as a treatment for DT's related to alcoholism, but there are better drugs now and they no longer recommend alcohol for that. Zero medical uses.

Cannabis on the other hand, does have recognized medical uses. Just as opiats and barbituates do. Now you CAN be legally prescribed drugs which impair your ability to operate machinery, and you can't be fired over using them. Your employer has to make a reasonable accomodation for you (desk job, etc) or let you stay home. It shouldn't be any different for cannabis.


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## TacoMac (Jun 2, 2018)

It is not going to matter.

The only thing that is going to matter is the liability position. Present pain medication is no different. A lot of people on pain medications are prohibited from doing high risk jobs as it is.

A LOT of it is simply going to boil down to the complete lack of education of the people at large. You say "oxycodone" and they think "it's OK, a doctor prescribes it". You say "marijuana" and they instantly think "worthless pothead with no job and a very extensive criminal record that should be in jail".

There's just no way to mitigate that out of the status quo for now.

What it's going to take is the Federal Government removing it from schedule one. The INSTANT that is done, you'll see a complete change in the way marijuana is perceived.


States that have been on the fence about legalization will go ahead and take the plunge.
Doctors that have been afraid of losing malpractice insurance for prescribing it will no longer have to fear that.
People who have been suffering that suddenly gain access to medical marijuana will quickly spread the word about it.
Insurance companies will look at it as a very low cost alternative to high end pharmaceuticals and start approving it at record pace.
Perceptions will change.

But in the end, none of that will ever happen so long as it's on schedule one.


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