# Root gel and some experiments



## fdd2blk (Mar 22, 2008)

when this was about 2 inches tall i added soil and happened to be cutting clones the same night. i had cloning gel on my finger and decided to rub it all over this seedling to see what would happen. this was about 10 days ago. look at it........


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## apasunee (Mar 22, 2008)

Did you rub it on the branch (stems) or the leaves or both................


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## fdd2blk (Mar 22, 2008)

apasunee said:


> Did you rub it on the branch (stems) or the leaves or both................


just the main stalk. it's all swollen. three times the size of the other ones.


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## apasunee (Mar 22, 2008)

Cloning gel you say huh,,,,,, that gives me an idea....................


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## fdd2blk (Mar 22, 2008)

apasunee said:


> Cloning gel you say huh,,,,,, that gives me an idea....................


yes, do try it. i will continue to mess with it as well.


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## apasunee (Mar 22, 2008)

Your becoming quite the mad scientist...................................


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## fdd2blk (Mar 22, 2008)

apasunee said:


> Your becoming quite the mad scientist...................................



working outside the box.


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## apasunee (Mar 22, 2008)

WELL,,, by the looks of your avatar, you need to get out more often or youll be workin inside the rubber room......lol..............................................


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## pinksensa (Mar 22, 2008)

fdd do you think it would do anything to branches??? ill go lube a couple up w/ some gel


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## fdd2blk (Mar 22, 2008)

pinksensa said:


> fdd do you think it would do anything to branches??? ill go lube a couple up w/ some gel


it may. try to score the outside of the branch a little so it gets down inside. just lightly scrape the surface of the branch first.


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## pinksensa (Mar 22, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> it may. try to score the outside of the branch a little so it gets down inside. just lightly scrape the surface of the branch first.


last night i had to re bend my main stem into my scrog screen and it really pinched at the bend like a lil crack what about putting it right there???


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## fdd2blk (Mar 22, 2008)

pinksensa said:


> last night i had to re bend my main stem into my scrog screen and it really pinched at the bend like a lil crack what about putting it right there???



try that.


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## panhead (Mar 22, 2008)

Very interesting,im doing this in the morning when i visit the garden.

Funny that you do this right now,i was laying in bed the other night after taking clones that day & was thinking up goofy shit,i was wondering all the uses for root tone,ever had a vitamin b shot from the doctor ??,its allmost like a shot of speed that lasts a week.

I was wondering what would happen if i put cloning powder into my water at feeding time,any thoughts on what the outcome would be.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 22, 2008)

panhead said:


> Very interesting,im doing this in the morning when i visit the garden.
> 
> Funny that you do this right now,i was laying in bed the other night after taking clones that day & was thinking up goofy shit,i was wondering all the uses for root tone,ever had a vitamin b shot from the doctor ??,its allmost like a shot of speed that lasts a week.
> 
> I was wondering what would happen if i put cloning powder into my water at feeding time,any thoughts on what the outcome would be.


try that.


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## pinksensa (Mar 22, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> try that.


ok he heee hee I globbed up the bend break and i scored a couple of differerent random branches and put gel on it same gel as you rootech...I have always wanted to put root gel on the cut where I take a clone from who knows rooting gel could be like triple antibiotic or neosporin for planties...ill keep you updated...loll


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## pinksensa (Mar 22, 2008)

your just a mad scientist encourager!!!


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## fdd2blk (Mar 22, 2008)

pinksensa said:


> your just a mad scientist encourager!!!




i get lonely out here.


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## panhead (Mar 22, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> try that.


Heck,as soon as i saw your results i knew i was doing it,im going to tomorrow on several plants,im going to mark them to see what happens compared to the rest.

Im pretty excited about this


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## pinksensa (Mar 22, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i get lonely out here.


well when i get more batteries ill show you pics of my mutants that i have been aggravating since they were born all weird and such and then i burned them they unlike my other plantie dont like to be foliar fed as much so admist a lil burning and some recent days in the real sun and some lst they are doing amazing despite my wicked ways and maltreatment and one is a girl ....oh and my big plantie is a girl and so are all her babies!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## WormSlayer (Mar 22, 2008)

This really does look interesting, I eagerly await more progress photos! - You are an inspiration fdd


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## panhead (Mar 23, 2008)

panhead said:


> Heck,as soon as i saw your results i knew i was doing it,im going to tomorrow on several plants,im going to mark them to see what happens compared to the rest.
> 
> Im pretty excited about this


I took 5 tablespoons of root tone & mixed it with the nute water this morning & fed some of them,im going to repeat this once a week,we'll see.

I also scraped the stems of 4 rooted clones & put paste on them,again we'll see,i got a feeling its gonna be sweet.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 23, 2008)

i put some on a small clone last night. around the base of the stalk. this morning the leaves are curling under slightly. it definitely did something.


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## panhead (Mar 23, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i put some on a small clone last night. around the base of the stalk. this morning the leaves are curling under slightly. it definitely did something.


Hmmm,i hope i see a change that quick,now i wish i woulda took a pic to compare against in a few days.


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## KAOSOWNER (Mar 23, 2008)

crazy thread clone gel on the plant good luck cant wait 2 see how this turns out i have a plant in a rez that is damn near dead if not dead. i will throw some powder in the rez


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## pinksensa (Mar 23, 2008)

After about 12 hours of rooting gel branches and bend: on the places that i overgooped it with gel it left a lil whiteness that easily rubbed off, the places where I didnt goop to bad absorbed right in......So ill let you know if tonite or tomorrow I experience any fattening of the branches...


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## pinksensa (Mar 25, 2008)

hey fdd et all.....
*friday night* when i was needlessly repotting my big girl, I thought at first that I was going to be bringing the soil up higher on the main stem and I had one really healthy stray branch down there...so I cut it and threw it in some water while did other gardening chores....by the time I got done I was eh didnt really feel like cutting the branch down and making clones...and thought tomorrow when it starts to droop I will cut it up and set it up w/ my clones...so now we are to Tuesday morning and the thing hasnt drooped a bit...I have a philadandron stem that had broke off and I had put in water on the kitchen window sil and i change out the water every few days to keep it fresh so last nite Im like hell if this stragggler in the cup is goin to keep on I need to change the water out...so i got to change the water and the damn part of the stem that is in water is developing roots....which made me giggle like a mad scientist...so i smeared some rooting gel around them and threw it back in the water....still looks great today.....lol lol by thursday I think youll be able to see the roots enough for the camera to get a pics lol lol he he ha ha ho ho ill tell you more as it goes on..


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## fdd2blk (Mar 25, 2008)

this was yesterday........ 

the stalk was straight before i applied the gel. i only applied it at the bottom 1/4 inch. it seems to have travel up thru the main stalk.


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## pinksensa (Mar 25, 2008)

lol lol, one the branches I did on my big girl did seem a little fatter...im still watchin ...but hell I bend and tie that plant so much id never know if it was not straight lol

I wonder if panhead had any results w/ the rooting powder water...cuz if so ill go get some poweder to put in my branch water cup..


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## budz420 (Mar 25, 2008)

I always add KLN Dynagrow rooting concentrate 1 tsp per gallon, all the way through the grow. I had a bad transplant awhile back and I used the rooting stuff to stabilize it a little, and then just kept adding it. The root system on this thing was INCREDIBLE! It filled a 5 gallon bucket twice! I had to cut the roots halfway through the grow just to make room. Im experimenting now with using the KLN in soil.


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## apasunee (Mar 25, 2008)

Sounds like rooting compound is turning out to be the viagra of the plant world......................


fdd2blk said:


> just the main stalk. it's all swollen. three times the size of the other ones.


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## KAOSOWNER (Mar 25, 2008)

Now if this is a dumb question forgive me but i was under the impression that root stimulators and cloning gel or powders are different and for different purposes. Dont stimulators help already formed roots and cloning gel/powder help roots grow with hormones or something????


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## fdd2blk (Mar 25, 2008)

moving this to the advanced forum. just because.


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## budz420 (Mar 25, 2008)

The DynaGrow KLN that I use is a liquid. It says on the bottle it's for "propagation of cuttings" meaning cloning, and to promote vigorous root growth , and to prevent transplant shock. I love the stuff. I really believe that it helps cover alot of mistakes I've made while growing.


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## pinksensa (Mar 25, 2008)

you know fdd the only thing I miss about living in arkansas is weeping willow trees,
ive got buddy who grows there and makes his own rooting hormones from the weeping willow that would be so cool to me...ima have to go there and get a tree and get it going here on my patio....i could go crazy mad scientist messin w/ that stuff


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## Maccabee (Mar 25, 2008)

Very cool data. Are you noticing any retardation of primary growth (or flowering, for those who have used rooting supplements all the way through)? I've read cautions against adding too much rooting/transplant supplement once vegetative growth begins to accelerate, as too much hormone can apparently _inhibit_ growth.

From Cervantes _Indoor/Outdoor Medical Growers Bible_:



> You can also spray clones with a single foliar spray of dilute IBA (50 - 90 ppm). Be careful to spray just enough to cover leaves. Spray should not drip off leaves. An IBA overdose slows growth, makes leaves dwarf, and could even kill the clone.


 (p. 47)

Although, later on, he says this:



> Once established, plants should be treated at three- to five-week intervals during the growing season. After harvest, IBA can be used to encourage regeneration of flowers.


 (p. 289)

Some experts claim that these compounds shouldn't be used in transplants or maturing plants at all, only for cloning--as in cloning, you want to arrest primary/secondary growth in favor of new lateral root growth. Conversely, apparently Vitamin B1 on its own doesn't do much--you need hormones (NAA and/or IBA auxins) and ferts (N) for any real effect and over-application of hormones may lead to adverse effects. To drive the point home, some commercial herbicides are actually massive overdoses of synthetic auxins. 

Some links from my grab bag for those interested:

Botany online: Plant hormones - Phytohormones

Selecting and Using Plant Growth Regulators on Floricultural Crops

http: // web.archive.org /web / 20061031031003 / home.cc.umanitoba.ca /~umrahm04 /39.768/P2/P2.html
("Auxin Regulates the Initiation and Radial Position of Plant Lateral Organs" ; delete the spaces in the link, the parser is mangling it)

39.768 Plant Mol. Genet. - Lecture 18, part 1 of 3 
(The lecture index page, for those who want to go down the rabbit hole: http://web.archive.org/web/20060505053137/www.umanitoba.ca/afs/plant_science/COURSES/39-768/lectures.html ) 

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%20Chalker-Scott/Horticultural%20Myths_files/Myths/Vitamin%20B1.pdf


[These next two are controlled studies on plant growth hormone and require JSTOR access, try it from a college or public library.]

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0002-9122(194102)28:2%3C163:TEOVGS%3E2.0.CO;2-R 

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0002-9122(193907)26:7%3C557:TIORGB%3E2.0.CO;2-W



Does vitamin B1 help transplants take root?

Chemicals
(See the 'Auxin Mimics' section for info on hormonal herbicides)

Herbicide Resistant Weeds


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## pinksensa (Mar 25, 2008)

maccabee....its just an experiment on extra plants we have... its just fun to experiement, Im certainly not rubbing cloning gel all over for the duration of the grow it was just a fluke that fdd found and now a few of us are playin w/ it...


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## Maccabee (Mar 25, 2008)

pinksensa said:


> maccabee....its just an experiment on extra plants we have... its just fun to experiement, Im certainly not rubbing cloning gel all over for the duration of the grow it was just a fluke that fdd found and now a few of us are playin w/ it...


Yeah, and I dig it! The pics speak for themselves. I'm going to do it myself when I can scrounge up some gel. I've just been reading up on hormones and PGRs lately and thought I'd share some of the information I've found, as apparently it's rather important not to over apply these chemicals. I threw in the info on B-1 as it's often used in cloning or transplanting. 

I didn't mean to crit anyone with a wall of text, I just get excited about experimentation.


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## budz420 (Mar 25, 2008)

hey Mcabee, what is your avatar?


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## thegigglepimp (Mar 25, 2008)

Not on cannabis in particular but when i took a cutting from my Salvia plant before, i rubbed cloning gel on the mother where i took the cutting. The main difference was it seemed unaffected by the cutting where as in the past there would be a bit of browning. I haven't experimented with it at all. But this thread has intrigued me. Well done


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## pinksensa (Mar 25, 2008)

Maccabee said:


> Yeah, and I dig it! The pics speak for themselves. I'm going to do it myself when I can scrounge up some gel. I've just been reading up on hormones and PGRs lately and thought I'd share some of the information I've found, as apparently it's rather important not to over apply these chemicals. I threw in the info on B-1 as it's often used in cloning or transplanting.
> 
> I didn't mean to crit anyone with a wall of text, I just get excited about experimentation.


no doubt and Im going to totally print what you wrote to put in my paper journal my eyes just cross sometimes when i see some much text in a thread...sorry I coulda been sweeter  and im glad your experimenting w/ us..


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## panhead (Mar 25, 2008)

Wow,i saw results in bud growth quickly,i only visit my garden every 2 days because of the long drive to get there so its usually pretty easy for me to notice change, this time i was dumbfounded as soon as i walked in,the new bud growth was allmost an explosive burst in new calyx's on the bud of one plant.

The pattern of growth on this plant has allways been even all around the bud & consistent from the top down to the bottom of the bud,now the bud is lumpy as hell with new growth.

Hmmmm...............this shits got me wondering big time,i saw some differences in my other girls that were not given root tone in their water but nowhere near as dramatic as this one,the seedlings i put root tone on have not shown anything dramatic yet but have shown faster leaf production than others.

This is the test plant with a dramatic growth spurt & the seedlings.


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## budz420 (Mar 25, 2008)

I swear by the stuff!


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## pinksensa (Mar 25, 2008)

wow panhead......


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## panhead (Mar 25, 2008)

pinksensa said:


> wow panhead......


I know,that damm bud blew up in 2 days.


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## pinksensa (Mar 25, 2008)

panhead said:


> I know,that damm bud blew up in 2 days.


what is the stuff you used again, and its it somethin i can get at the hydro store?? I got a branch living in water that is making roots and Id love to juice that water w/ what your using to see what happens..


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## thegigglepimp (Mar 25, 2008)

panhead said:


> Wow,i saw results in bud growth quickly,i only visit my garden every 2 days because of the long drive to get there so its usually pretty easy for me to notice change, this time i was dumbfounded as soon as i walked in,the new bud growth was allmost an explosive burst in new calyx's on the bud of one plant.
> 
> The pattern of growth on this plant has allways been even all around the bud & consistent from the top down to the bottom of the bud,now the bud is lumpy as hell with new growth.
> 
> ...


Fair play mate, how did you apply it to affect the buds!?

I'm a bit taken back by this now, i mean it obviously works, but why is it people havent used it before?!


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## Zekedogg (Mar 25, 2008)

This is interesting indeed


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## panhead (Mar 25, 2008)

pinksensa said:


> what is the stuff you used again, and its it somethin i can get at the hydro store?? I got a branch living in water that is making roots and Id love to juice that water w/ what your using to see what happens..


I have 2 different brands,one is called Root Tone & the other is called Take Root,both can be found at any kmart,meijers,ace hardware,home depot ect,both products are cloning powder.


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## Zekedogg (Mar 25, 2008)

what is the make-up of it?


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## panhead (Mar 25, 2008)

thegigglepimp said:


> Fair play mate, how did you apply it to affect the buds!?
> 
> I'm a bit taken back by this now, i mean it obviously works, but why is it people havent used it before?!


I mixed the cloning powder up with ph'ed water & fed it to them durring watering,it was a bitch to get it to mix up right,i had to make a paste then slowly add it to the water to get it to disolve,after it disolved the water looked like welfare milk,the powder shit.

Its way too early for me to say that it was the cloning powder or the growth hormone in it that made the growth burst happen,i think so but you neven know about how the placebo effect & my own personal bias comes into play.

Im gonna continue to monitor this plant,next time i visit the garden im going to take along a tailors tape measure to measure the circumference of the buds & keep track of their development,then compare against non treated plants.

There are all kinds of studies with this type shit on the internet,most of which are way over my head,ive been reading up on plant growth hormones the last few weeks & trying to understand it all so when fdd posted what he was trying i figured what the hell,looking at what happened with his experiment it was worth a shot.

So far no ill effects so it cant hurt i'd say.


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## panhead (Mar 25, 2008)

Zekedogg said:


> what is the make-up of it?


I had to get a magnifying glass to even read the fine print but the active ingredient is Indole-3-Butyric Acid & the rest of the compound is supposedly inert ingredients.

This is the stuff.

Root tone

Edit,i did a quick google & looked up Indole-3-Butyric Acid, then took the name of the product that FDD is using in his pic,got the active ingredient from their website which they label as IBA Hormone then did a google on it,both hormones came up in the same links so something is going on.


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## Maccabee (Mar 25, 2008)

panhead said:


> I had to get a magnifying glass to even read the fine print but the active ingredient is Indole-3-Butyric Acid & the rest of the compound is supposedly inert ingredients...the product that FDD is using in his pic,got the active ingredient from their website which they label as IBA ...both hormones came up in the same links so something is going on.


Yes, IBA is one of the forms of auxin (or possible a precursor of IAA, a known auxin.) What you're doing here is direct hormone supplementation. Think Barry Bonds. 

Here's a good page on auxins from the links I posted yesterday:
Botany online: Plant hormones - Phytohormones - Auxins


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## We TaRdED (Mar 25, 2008)

i would love to see a b4 and after shot of a controlled plant and the one with the rooting hormone mixed in with the water 

thanks for sharing PANHEAD and other!!!


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## LoudBlunts (Mar 25, 2008)

so why dont you all just foilar feed with vitamins and shit?


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## LoudBlunts (Mar 25, 2008)

i always wanted to try it....but my dumb ass thought roots would start growing wherever i rubbed the rooting solution


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## panhead (Mar 25, 2008)

Maccabee said:


> Yes, IBA is one of the forms of auxin. What you're doing here is direct hormone supplementation. Think Barry Bonds.
> 
> Here's a good page on auxins from the links I posted yesterday:
> Botany online: Plant hormones - Phytohormones - Auxins


Ok great,your here,i was just getting ready to pm you,from your links earlier in the thread you've obviously been researching this also,heve you read anything about using Gibberellic Acid or have you tried using it,this is becomming pretty interesting.

Btw,i have been trying to digest the info in your link all evening.


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## Maccabee (Mar 25, 2008)

The two wouldn't be mutually exclusive. Vitamins and micronutes != hormones. That's like comparing Centrum and testosterone. 

Anyway, it would seem that the relationship between IBA and IAA is a matter of active research. IAA is a known auxin, and IBA may be a related auxin or it may be a precursor of IAA. The latter might explain why it could be applied to plants later in life without ill effects--if the plant doesn't need more of whatever the IBA is used to make, it simply won't use it, whereas direct applications of the wrong hormone at the wrong time can have ill effects. 

Here's an excerpt from the home page of a professor at the University of Missouri (St. Louis):


> My research focuses on peroxisomal function and its role in auxin metabolism in the model plant _Arabidopsis thaliana_. I am studying the role of indole-butyric acid (IBA) in auxin response and its relationship to the principle auxin, indole-acetic acid (IAA). IBA is used widely in horticultural settings because of its efficacy at inducing secondary roots on cuttings, but the molecular mechanisms of IBA action are unknown. One hypothesis is that IBA functions as a slow-release form of IAA, providing free IAA for root intiation. Our results indicate this process may occur in a pathway similar to fatty acid ß-oxidation in peroxisomes. I have taken a genetic approach to elucidate the mechanisms of IBA function. My work has focused on two groups of IBA-response mutants:
> 1) Mutants defective in peroxisomal biogenesis or function. These mutants have defects in peroxins, which disrupt peroxisomal biogenesis or import, or in proteins acting within the peroxisome matrix, affecting specific pathways including fatty acid ß-oxidation and valine catabolism.
> 2) Mutants with IBA-response defects. These mutants do not have general peroxisome-defective phenotypes, indicating they may be defective in enzymes that act specifically on IBA.
> Future work using genetics, cell biology, and biochemistry will reveal how IBA action is important for auxin responses in plants, the enzymes that convert IBA to IAA, and may eventually allow manipulation of species that do not effectively respond to IBA. In addition, this work provides an unbiased approach to explore the specifics of peroxisomal fatty acid metabolism in plants.




From a Rice graduate lab study page:





> [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We are using molecular genetic approaches to elucidate functions of indole-3-butyric acid (IBA) in Arabidopsis. Although IBA is a naturally occurring form of the plant growth hormone auxin and is used commercially to promote rooting in many species, the molecular mechanisms by which it acts are only beginning to be understood.[/FONT]​ [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We have isolated IBA-response (_ibr_) mutants; some of these mutants have b-oxidation and peroxisome biogenesis defects. Our analysis suggests that IBA is converted into indole-3-acetic acid (IAA) using reactions analogous to those of fatty acid catabolism (b-oxidation), a largely peroxisomal process in plants. Thus these mutants are contributing to our understanding of plant peroxisomes and the genes necessary for their biogenesis. [/FONT][/FONT]​ ​ [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]To understand auxin action, the functional significance of the endogenous auxins must be determined. Identifying genes involved in converting IBA to IAA is a prerequisite to understanding the regulation and importance of this conversion. This knowledge is essential to determine the contributions of IBA relative to other inputs to the active auxin pool, including de novo synthesis and conjugate hydrolysis. In addition, elucidating the molecular mechanisms of IBA action in a genetically tractable plant may provide insights for agricultural IBA uses. For example, identifying and characterizing the specific isozymes that convert IBA to IAA may facilitate their modification in difficult-to-root cultivars where IBA application is normally ineffective.


This one is from an article in _Plant Physiology_ on Jasmonic acid and mycorrhizae:



> [/FONT] [SIZE=+1]*Indole-3-Butyric Acid: The Other Natural Auxin*[/SIZE]
> Indole-3-butyric acid (*IBA*) is a naturally occurring *auxin* that has found wide commercial application in the induction root formation in cuttings. Beyond this one application, however, *IBA* has received scant attention compared to indole-3-acetic acid (IAA). In a number of plant species, however, concentrations of free *IBA* approach the levels of free IAA. Moreover, *IBA* and IAA can be interconverted, an observation that has led to the suggestion that *IBA* may act as a precursor to IAA. Arabidopsis mutants whose roots have reduced sensitivity to growth inhibition by *IBA*, but normal sensitivity to IAA, have been isolated and shown to have defects in _
> 
> 
> ...


One more, from Annual Review of Plant Physiology and Plant Molecular Biology, in an article by the director of the project at Rice :


> Indole-3-acetic acid (IAA) is the most abundant naturally occurring auxin. Plants produce active IAA both by de novo synthesis and by releasing IAA from conjugates. This review emphasizes recent genetic experiments and complementary biochemical analyses that are beginning to unravel the complexities of IAA biosynthesis in plants. Multiple pathways exist for de novo IAA synthesis in plants, and a number of plant enzymes can liberate IAA from conjugates. This multiplicity has contributed to the current situation in which no pathway of IAA biosynthesis in plants has been unequivocally established. Genetic and biochemical experiments have demonstrated both tryptophan-dependent and tryptophan-independent routes of IAA biosynthesis. The recent application of precise and sensitive methods for quantitation of IAA and its metabolites to plant mutants disrupted in various aspects of IAA regulation is beginning to elucidate the multiple pathways that control IAA levels in the plant.


So apparently this really is an unsettled are under active investigation.


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## panhead (Mar 25, 2008)

LoudBlunts said:


> so why dont you all just foilar feed with vitamins and shit?


In the start of the thread there is a quote from the Jorge growers bible where he says you can foliar feed with some kinda shit but its not real clear to me.


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## thegigglepimp (Mar 25, 2008)

I'm thinking of an experiment, althugh it may kill my plant. I currntly have two seedlings no bigger than an inch, if I were to ad a very very small amount in the water for one of them I could see if it over takes the other? Or would it just kill the thing?


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## panhead (Mar 25, 2008)

Maccabee said:


> So apparently this really is an unsettled are under active investigation.


Ok more questions if you dont mind.

Taken directly from the 2nd to last quote in your post.

RIB1 is also less sensitive to IBA in stimulating lateral root formation & hypocotyl elongation under most,but not all light & surcose conditions studied.With one exception,(low light & 1.5% sucrose).RIB1 demonstrated wild type responses to IAA under all conditions studied.

Ok now,if i have this right then sucrose is a natural sugar ? and if this is correct & once again presuming that im half way understanding any of this these sugars can or will react with the Indole-3 & create abnormal growth ?

The reason i ask this is once i read that link,when i got to the part about the interaction with sucrose it struck me that maybe my use of molasses durring watering has created this abnormal growth rate im experiencing.


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## panhead (Mar 25, 2008)

thegigglepimp said:


> I'm thinking of an experiment, althugh it may kill my plant. I currntly have two seedlings no bigger than an inch, if I were to ad a very very small amount in the water for one of them I could see if it over takes the other? Or would it just kill the thing?


In the picture i posted of the growth spurt bud in the background are 4 seedlings in party cups,i scraped the stalks & applied the same paste that i added to the water at the same time as feeding that plant the hormone,no ill effects so far,the clones i applied it too are also still healthy.


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## Maccabee (Mar 25, 2008)

panhead said:


> Ok great,your here,i was just getting ready to pm you,from your links earlier in the thread you've obviously been researching this also,heve you read anything about using Gibberellic Acid or have you tried using it,this is becomming pretty interesting.
> 
> Btw,i have been trying to digest the info in your link all evening.


Yep, alongside the auxins IAA and NAA, Gibberellins are among the most popular and studied hormones/regulators. 

Gibberellins are directly related to the abscisic acid group of phytohormones, as is the auxin group. IAA (and IBA) are in the auxin group. There are others. Have a look at this table: 

Plant Hormones

The abscisic acid group is so named as it was first found in high concentrations in freshly fallen (abscissed) leaves/fruits. Abbreviated as ABA, it is primarily a growth inhibitor. The displacement of ABA is associated with increase in Gibberelin levels, prompting renewed growth or the triggering of another stage. For instance, ABA is part of the seed dormancy mechanism that allows seed to overwinter and not sprout during a warm winter period and part of the mechanism that prevents pre-mature flowering. Seeds have a lot of ABA, the levels drop triggering germination, then after the seedling is ready the levels drop again triggering vegetative growth, etc. 

So, what is gibberelin? Gibberelins are a class of hormone that figure prominently in the seed germination mechanism as well as regulating the growth of internode cells in relation to light intensity. It is gibberelin that causes plants to stretch under low intensity light. Etiolated plants grown in near-darkness have gibberelin levels off the charts. Thus, supplementation with gibberelin can boost germination and can increase internode growth and bud/fruit size, but will stretch the plant by increasing internode distance. 

Meanwhile, auxins in conjunction with other hormones (whose production it helps to regulate) control rooting, cell growth, and fruiting. IAA and NAA are the most often seen auxins. IBA (aka I-3-BA) is also very common. There are other less frequently seen forms of auxin, but I've found much less reliable information on them, some seem to be trademarked synthetic versions of the above. From what I've assimilated, IBA (or IAA) is to be preferred over NAA. IAA and IBA are naturally occurring in the plant, where as NAA is a synthetic auxin. For some stages of growth, like budding/ripening, NAA is an inhibitor rather than an activator (as is the case with many of these hormones.) Here's a snippet on synthetic auxins. Note the last part: not all auxins are something that you'd want in your marijuana garden!



> Synthetic auxins, like naphthalene acetic acid, of NAA, are used extensively to promote root formation on stem and leaf cuttings. Gardeners often spray auxins on tomato plants to increase the number of fruits on each plant. When NAA is sprayed on young fruits of apple and olive trees, some of the fruits drop off so that the remaining fruits grow larger. When NAA is sprayed directly on maturing fruits, such as apples, pears and citrus fruits, several weeks before they are ready to be picked; NAA prevents the fruits from dropping off the trees before they are mature. The fact that auxins can have opposite effects, causing fruit to drop or preventing fruit from dropping, illustrates an important point. The effects of a hormone on a plant often depend on the stage of the plant's development. NAA is used to prevent the undesirable sprouting of stems from the base of ornamental trees. As previously discussed, stems contain a lateral bud at the base of each leaf. IN many stems, these buds fail to sprout as long as the plant's shoot tip is still intact. The inhibition of lateral buds by the presence of the shoot tip is called apical dominance. If the shoot tip of a plant is removed, the lateral buds begin to grow. If IAA or NAA is applied to the cut tip of the stem, the lateral buds remain dormant. This adaptation is manipulated to cultivate beautiful ornamental trees. NAA is used commercially to prevent buds from sprouting on potatoes during storage.
> Another important synthetic auxin is 2,4-D, which is an herbicide, or weed killer. It selectively kills dicots, such as dandelions and pigweed, without injuring monocots, such as lawn grasses and cereal crops. Given our major dependence on cereals for food; 2,4-D has been of great value to agriculture. A mixture of 2, 4-D and another auxin, called Agent Orange, was used to destroy foliage in the jungles of Vietnam. A non-auxin contaminant in Agent Orange has caused severe health problems in many people who were exposed to it.


 Cytokinins, another group and a word which may be familiar from seaweed/kelp product marketing, synergize with auxins, and also help to counteract apical (top) dominance by mediating the distribution of auxins and so encourage branching and lateral growth. They also slow the senescence (aging) of tissues.

Ethylene, conversely, inhibits leaf growth and encourages stem growth as well as speeding senescence and abscission of tissue--therefore, it is associated with the early vertical growth of seedlings, as well as the ripening of flowers and fruit (potentially continuing to the point of spoilage.) Ethylene also seems to be related to stem thickening, and in germination seedlings that encounter an obstacle in rising to the surface of the soil have an elevated ethylene level allowing them to thicken and exert more force, as well as helping them to counteract geotropism and 'go around' the obstacle. Plants caused to develop thicker stems by exposure to wind also have elevated ethylene levels (I would conjecture that this is why too strong a fan on your plants leads to leaf drop on lower growth--too much ethylene at the base of the plant in response to air turbulence.) In commercial fruit growning, often the production of ethylene, and so the ripening of tissues, is suppressed before the product is shipped closer to market at which point ethylene gas is introduced to cause ripening. 

There are some other minor groupings of hormones that are either thought to serve auxillary functions (such as physiological signaling) or which are thought to have functions similar to those above but are not yet widely studied or well understood. 

This is a decent place to start for a big picture, if the stuff I posted yesterday is too thick to make sense of:

Plant hormone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Incidentally, if you like this kind of stuff I can't recommend this book highly enough: 
Amazon.com: Botany for Gardeners: Brian Capon: Books
Botany for Gardeners - Google Book Search


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## JonnyBlunt88 (Mar 25, 2008)

Got some DYNA...Good stuff. I'm game.


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## Maccabee (Mar 25, 2008)

panhead said:


> Ok more questions if you dont mind.
> 
> Taken directly from the 2nd to last quote in your post.
> 
> ...


If I'm reading the abstract correctly, the RIB1 individuals _failed_ to exhibit the typical response to IBA under most conditions, but did respond to IAA, except at low levels of light and nutrient. That is to say that the low light/sucrose thing, I'm guessing, refers to one of multiple conditions tested and it sounds like a deficient condition rather than an abundant one. I'd bet that the other conditions had more of both. The idea in this experiment was to find individuals that for some reason couldn't use IBA but could use IAA; by finding the difference between normal and defective individuals they hoped to nail down the relationship between IBA and IAA and possibly how the former is converted to the latter (if indeed it is.)

So, the only thing it's really saying vis a vis molasses is that without enough sugars present, a plant that normally could make use of IAA supplementation may fail to do so. However, normal levels of carbs are probably sufficient for expected hormonal response, I would think you would have a problematic hormone imbalance before you reached the point that you'd have to add sugars to sustain the hormonal response. Most likely, the low light/sucrose group mentioned failed to respond to IAA simply because they lacked fuel for metabolism. To get to that point of exhaustion via hormone supplementation would require applications of toxic levels of hormone--or an herbicidal auxin designed to do just that (as mentioned peripherally above)


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## thegigglepimp (Mar 26, 2008)

right well im undergoing my own experiment. A very weak solution including the gel has been given to one of my two seedlings. Now im not going to check back until this time tomorrow or later and see if there is any difference between the two plants. Knowing my luck the only difference will be that the one i used the gel on will be dead.


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## Budsworth (Mar 26, 2008)

If rooting gel made the stem bigger I think I will rub some on a smaller flowering bud and see what happens.


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## venix12 (Mar 26, 2008)

I wonder what would happen if I rubbed the rooting jel on my ......ah nm bad idea



lol


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## the Pope (Mar 26, 2008)

that is weard i have had a plant do that before but i didnt have any cloning jell it just did it itself like right in the middle of the plant it did that Y is my question


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## We TaRdED (Mar 26, 2008)

venix12 said:


> I wonder what would happen if I rubbed the rooting jel on my ......ah nm bad idea
> 
> 
> 
> lol


as FDD would say "try that" 

lol, thats pretty funny.

the new penis pump...


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## jimmyspaz (Mar 26, 2008)

I can see the ads now,, "Just rub on for increased size" LOL


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## Maccabee (Mar 26, 2008)

venix12 said:


> I wonder what would happen if I rubbed the rooting jel on my ......ah nm bad idea
> 
> 
> 
> lol




Shakespearean humor on RIU! 




No, seriously.


'Root' was a common slang term for penis during the Shakespearean period (and still is in some places.)

We also get "rutting" from "root." ('Rut' possibly being closer to the pronunciation used at the time.) 

[The double meaning and usage of the verb for animals feeding was part of the expressiveness of the slang, but these days the latter meaning (animal feeding behavior) has eclipsed the former (anatomical) in the connotation of the sexual idiom and so we've kind of lost the conscious linkage.]

Rooting compound indeed! "No profit grows where there is no pleasure ta'en," I suppose. Heh. 

Shakespeare's Bawdy - Google Book Search


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## MsMILFweed (Mar 26, 2008)

Interesting thread... I did a similar thing a few weeks ago. I had a couple clones where I had cloning gel which came up about an inch or so on the stem above the medium surface. After a couple weeks where the gel was the stalk start growing these white wart looking things (growth trying to be a root?). 

I think I threw the clones away in the end, I'll have to check and see if I have any photos. BTW, the cloning gel I was using is the Orange Rootech stuff.


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## thegigglepimp (Mar 26, 2008)

Those white wart things were the roots developing


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## pinksensa (Mar 26, 2008)

Okay this is a branch that I cut and put in water meaning to clone it after some gardening chores...got put off but i promised myself that when i saw the slightest droop i would clone it....well it never drooped and it went in the cup Friday night 3/21 so ironically the night fdd started the rooting gel thread I noticed the white warts on the fucking branch ie roots forming so i lubed it up w/ rooting gel MIND YOU when i put it in the cup i didnt put ANY rooting gel on it I was in a hurry and just dropped it in..since the rooting gel lubing the roots are dramatically coming out more....

sorry the some of the pics are so blurry i did my best but you can see the little white things on the end those are the roots..


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## thegigglepimp (Mar 26, 2008)

Is it just me or does rooting gel absolutely stink? I have an organic version so i doubt its as effective as the versions your using, but opening it almost makes me retch. Its fresh and only used it two or three times.


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## pinksensa (Mar 26, 2008)

thegigglepimp said:


> Is it just me or does rooting gel absolutely stink? I have an organic version so i doubt its as effective as the versions your using, but opening it almost makes me retch. Its fresh and only used it two or three times.


kinda and i used to not get it on my fingers cuz it says not to on it lol but w/this experiment i have used my finger a couple a times and it gets really cold for some reason....


PANHEAD .... FDD come look at my pics on this thread!!


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## Maccabee (Mar 26, 2008)

pinksensa said:


> kinda and i used to not get it on my fingers cuz it says not to on it lol but w/this experiment i have used my finger a couple a times and it gets really cold for some reason....


oh, shit! Don't answer the phone! You'll die in seven days!




Just kidding. 




That branch looks awesome. I've always wondered if it wasn't possible to propagate larger branches as you never really see it. Well, now I know it is! Cool. 

I want to play, but I'm having trouble finding an IBA gel at my local stores. I may have to order some.


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## pinksensa (Mar 26, 2008)

thanks so much...when i see something that i can take a pic of that isnt so blurry ill post it


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## We TaRdED (Mar 26, 2008)

pinksensa said:


> thanks so much...when i see something that i can take a pic of that isnt so blurry ill post it


just hold it an extra 4 inches back or so. 

in your second pic it looks like it was more focused on the starbucks logo which is about 4 inches behind your cutting.


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## KingTeg (Mar 27, 2008)

if you cut a line down the bottom of the clone and then dip it in gel or powder (i personally like powder better higher sucess rate than gel) it develops more roots and roots faster =) interesting thread very in depth on plant rooting hormones i like that always something interesting to read here ... there has to be a downside to using it tho 
it may show up later down the road you never now will be interesting to follow where this goes... happy 420(where i am )


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## panhead (Mar 27, 2008)

Maccabee said:


> Very cool data. Are you noticing any retardation of primary growth (or flowering, for those who have used rooting supplements all the way through)? I've read cautions against adding too much rooting/transplant supplement once vegetative growth begins to accelerate, as too much hormone can apparently _inhibit_ growth.
> 
> From Cervantes _Indoor/Outdoor Medical Growers Bible_:
> 
> ...


Ive been reading & digesting much of this information in this thread for a few days now,i still dont understand much of it though 

The retardation you mentioned is what i think im experiencing,i measured the circumference of the bud in my pic & it has gained just a tad over 1 inch in girth since given the hormone.

Ive been thinking about the links ive read & where they speak of regeneration so i tried something else,i have a batch that is 100% ready for harvest with 99% red hairs & no new calyx's for a week or so,they were flushed & i planned on taking them down today,the soil was very dry,i watered one plant with the hormone laden water early yesterday morning,i went back this afternoon to look at them & i have new calyx's on the plant,growing in small clumps.

I took the rest of that batch down this afternoon but i left the newly treated plant & another plant that is ready for harvest,i watered the dry plant with plain ph'ed water to see if it will get new calyx clusters like the treated plant.

So far ive seen explosive bud growth in the first plant treated,better leaf formation in the treated seedlings,new calyx development(2nd plant treated) on a fully ripened plant,treated clones are growing fast but so are the untreated clones,i need to watch them more.


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## We TaRdED (Mar 27, 2008)

panhead said:


> The retardation you mentioned is what i think im experiencing,


join the club... lol

no but seriously, thats some great info pan. maybe a little rooting hormone is a new additive for plants. it doesnt seem like you have had any ill effects from the experiments, right?
just bigger and better growth?

it makes sense, give the roots some rooting hormones so they can produce more roots and suck up more nutes- or at least thats what im getting from it.


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## panhead (Mar 27, 2008)

I think there is more to it than just root development,if it was just about roots then it stands to reason that increased calyx formation & an explosive growth rate would not be seen within 2 days like ive seen so far,in order for it to be 100% attributed to the root system i'd think it would take longer to notice a change.

I think the existing roots are sucking up the hormone & sending it to whatever area of the plant that is experiencing its growth cycle,the seedlings & clones get it sent to root mass & plant structure,vegging plants get it sent to the plant structure & leaves,budding plants get it sent directly to the flowers.

Saturday evening im going to spray that shit directly onto half the buds on one plant & see what happens.


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## Maccabee (Mar 27, 2008)

Yeah, it's not just a rooting hormone, it's a growth hormone. It controls cell division and fruiting/flowering, in combination with other hormones. The problem is that the wrong hormonal balance at the wrong time can give you the opposite of what you want.

I'm still trying to digest a lot of the literature too. 

BTW, it seems that Gibberelin (asked about above) is also one of the agents used to feminize seeds, as it can force a female plant to produce male flowers (hermie) for self-pollination, as is ethylene (mentioned above) which seeds can be exposed to in gaseous form to increase the proportion of female plants by as much as 25%. The two are related: gibberelin inhibits or displaces (not sure which) ethylene (also not sure if the inverse is true.)


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## pinksensa (Mar 27, 2008)

Maccabee said:


> Yeah, it's not just a rooting hormone, it's a growth hormone. It controls cell division and fruiting/flowering, in combination with other hormones. The problem is that the wrong hormonal balance at the wrong time can give you the opposite of what you want.
> 
> I'm still trying to digest a lot of the literature too.
> 
> BTW, it seems that Gibberelin (asked about above) is also one of the agents used to feminize seeds, as it can force a female plant to produce male flowers (hermie) for self-pollination, as is ethylene (mentioned above) which seeds can be exposed to in gaseous form to increase the proportion of female plants by as much as 25%. The two are related: gibberelin inhibits or displaces (not sure which) ethylene (also not sure if the inverse is true.)


ive gotten to where i just love to read what you write now, lol


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## panhead (Mar 27, 2008)

Maccabee said:


> Yeah, it's not just a rooting hormone, it's a growth hormone. It controls cell division and fruiting/flowering, in combination with other hormones. The problem is that the wrong hormonal balance at the wrong time can give you the opposite of what you want.
> 
> I'm still trying to digest a lot of the literature too.


I guess the million dollar question's for me are when to give & how much,then when to repeat & when to stop,the plant that had explosive growth was early in the 6th week of flowering,the new growth is sticking out like tumors on that plant.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 27, 2008)

wow, look what i started. 



my leaves are getting spots on them now. the lower stalk is getting "knotty". the main stalk is still curly. i mist the lower stalk once a night when the gel dries and turns white. this plant is on the same schedule as all the others and none of the others are getting these spotty leaves. and it's growth appears to be stunted. it's the one in the middle.


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## Maccabee (Mar 27, 2008)

Yeah, I was wondering if that would happen. Too much IAA/NAA will arrest apical growth. In theory, you should get more axillary growth, but the plant may not be well enough established for that, or maybe isn't getting enough light having been outgrown by it's neighbors. Or, most likely, there's a lot more going on behind the scenes that we aren't aware of. This kind of stuff makes me wish I'd taken an actual botany course at some point, so I would have a better idea where to look for information and how to make sense of it.


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## apasunee (Mar 27, 2008)

NOW YOU WENT AND DID IT,,, YOU WENT AND F-D AROUND WITH NATURE AND SHE IS GUNNA START F-N BACK WITH YA,,, I'LL WATCH THIS ONE FROM HERE,, GOOD LUCK,,LOL...................


fdd2blk said:


> wow, look what i started.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## panhead (Mar 28, 2008)

This thread & little experiments were doing is making me dream up all kinds of goofy shit,laying in bed last night this one hit me about the plant i have thats experiencing the abby normal growth rate .

I have nicknamed this plant " The Moose " because of the way the new calyx's are making the bud look sorta like a moose antler.

What would happen if revegged the plant after harvest,then took clones off of her,would the increased growth rate now be a built in part of her genetics ?


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## We TaRdED (Mar 28, 2008)

panhead said:


> What would happen if revegged the plant after harvest,then took clones off of her,would the increased growth rate now be a built in part of her genetics ?


not sure about the answer, but theres one way you could find out!!!

do it, give it a shot, and let us know how you make out. 

clones are supposed to be 100% genetic replica, but after you revert back to vegg people say it weakens the plants genetic integrity.. JMHO

good luck pan.

also if its a killer strain, i wouldnt mind adding a little moose to my garden


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## thegigglepimp (Mar 28, 2008)

i had two seedlings, one looked great whilst the other didnt even emerge untill a day an a half later and even then it looked ill and underdeveloped. Height wise aswell it didnt compare to the healthy one. So i added a bit of the gel to water and watered the runt. Now its same height if not taller than the other one and its leaves have really picked up. Could be a coincidence, but could also be the gel?


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## Maccabee (Mar 28, 2008)

panhead said:


> What would happen if revegged the plant after harvest,then took clones off of her,would the increased growth rate now be a built in part of her genetics ?


I don't _think_ so, that would imply that the hormone is also a mutagen. That would probably be well documented. 

However, one might expect that physiological changes that had occurred in the branch tissue resulting from gel application _prior _to its removal for rooting would continue to express themselves in new growth on/from that already treated tissue. 

(Here's a wild ass guess: you might get faster rooting and more immediate growth as the donor plant would have been in effect been 'pre-treated' for cloning. Just a guess, as I said.)

Did that make sense?


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## We TaRdED (Mar 28, 2008)

Maccabee said:


> Did that make sense?



can you try in layman's terms lol


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## jimmyspaz (Mar 28, 2008)

Yes maccabee that sounds like it makes sense to me. I can't see a genetic change from growth hormone , am watching this thread closely.


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## panhead (Mar 28, 2008)

Maccabee said:


> I don't _think_ so, that would imply that the hormone is also a mutagen. That would probably be well documented.
> 
> However, one might expect that physiological changes that had occurred in the branch tissue resulting from gel application _prior _to its removal for rooting would continue to express themselves in new growth on/from that already treated tissue.
> 
> ...


Thats what i thought but one can hope,sure would be nice to see that growth rate on all plants.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 29, 2008)

this is the original one that the stalk swelled up on. it is shorter than the others but the stalk is much thicker and it is hard like wood.


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## pinksensa (Mar 30, 2008)

Okay so tons of pics...begin w/the branch in water....I have trimmed back the yellow leaves and clipped the tips of the leaves left as I do when I clone...

The rest of the experiment was conducted on my main plant...youll see the branches that I scraped the surface then applied the gel....pretty dramatic fattening of the branches I did this to....as well as the pics of the main stalk...these places actually were where drops of the gel landed after application to other parts of plant and I just rubbed them in after...see all that bulging....it looks so freaky it tripps me out..and notice all the places where I had taken clones and their nubs remain I had rubbed those w/the gel as well and now they are all fat.....then the inside of where my plant got crushed during the bend of into the screen see how its bulging all around from the crush from the gel application....trippy ass shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. I showed the top of my screen just to show you that despite all the craziness on the stem and branches the plant looks great!!


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## fdd2blk (Mar 30, 2008)

wow, that main stalk looks spooky crazy. i'm gonna go rub 5 gallons on my apricot tree. lol


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## panhead (Mar 30, 2008)

I know ive been slacking,ive been meaning to snap a pic of that treated bud,i will tomorrow,its went berserk,it now looks like one of those mines that the navy puts in the water that stick to ships then explode,the way its all knoby looking is very odd for sure.

I hope my head dont end up like that after smokin it,i need to find a volunteer


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## pinksensa (Mar 30, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> wow, that main stalk looks spooky crazy. i'm gonna go rub 5 gallons on my apricot tree. lol


spooky crazy in a bad way??? lmao!!!


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## fdd2blk (Mar 30, 2008)

pinksensa said:


> spooky crazy in a bad way??? lmao!!!



like an old oak tree or something.


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## pinksensa (Mar 30, 2008)

whats crazy is it spreads to places i know i didnt touch but eh i needed some fatter branches and now i got them so ...


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## thegigglepimp (Mar 31, 2008)

out of my two seedlings. I applied some gel in the water of one leaving the other. The one i watered with the gel looked like a write off at the time, it was shriveled up, really short, leaves wouldnt develop. Where as the other was perfect. Now the runt has over grown the other in height as well as leaf development. This one also emerged from the rockwool a day or two later than the other one. Coincidence or does this gel really boost growth??


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## FrostickZero (Mar 31, 2008)

hey fdd I got a thing for you to try with new clone cuttings. try misting the leafs when ever you mist the dome to see what happens to them and if they will root faster


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## panhead (Mar 31, 2008)

The growth rate of the plant that was fed root tone in its water has not slowed down one bit,the other plants from this strain which were put in 12/12 at the same time are ripening up fast with lots of red hairs, but this one just keeps fatening up,i checked my notes & these were put in 12/12 on 1-27-08, so their a little over 60 days in.

This is the pic posted earlier in the thread where i started to notice the explosive growth rate.







This pic was taken early this morning & shows the continued accelerated growth,the bud growth looks lumpy & abnormal when compared with the rest of the plants from the same strain that were not fed root tone.

The bud has gained allmost 3 inches in girth using a cloth tape & measuring around the outside of the circumference of the bud.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 31, 2008)

panhead said:


> The growth rate of the plant that was fed root tone in its water has not slowed down one bit,the other plants from this strain which were put in 12/12 at the same time are ripening up fast with lots of red hairs, but this one just keeps fatening up,i checked my notes & these were put in 12/12 on 1-27-08, so their a little over 60 days in.
> 
> This is the pic posted earlier in the thread where i started to notice the explosive growth rate.
> 
> ...






looks like you owe me three inches of girth. wait a minute.......... lol


wow, very nice looking cola regardless of what you did to it.


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## panhead (Mar 31, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> looks like you owe me three inches of girth. wait a minute.......... lol
> 
> 
> wow, very nice looking cola regardless of what you did to it.


Thank you.

I know 3 inches sounds like alot but i measured in a circle & compared against a straight line measurement, its about 3/4 inch with the straight line measurement,the knobby bits are what gave it the added girth,i hope the bud fills in around them.

The rest of the plants do not have those knobby little chunks all over the cola's either.


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## Maccabee (Mar 31, 2008)

That's a beauty you've got there, Panhead. The buds are so packed they're practically dripping off the stalk! Which makes me feel awful to have to ask you this:

What's the brand on your Rootone? I have "Rootone" powder from GardenTech, it's active ingredients are listed as NAA and Thiram! 

When I looked into it, the material data sheet does show that it contains IBA as well. The problem is, the material data sheet also makes clear that this stuff has hazardous health effects. 

http://www.gardentech.com/images/98GT_13_Rootone.PDF

Thiram is a pesticide. The toxicology data sheet for it is a freak show. 
Look at the subsections after "Chronic Toxicity."

Thiram



> *Carcinogenic Effects*
> 
> When administered to mice at the highest dose possible, thiram was not carcinogenic (1). Dietary levels as high as 125 mg/kg/day for two years did not cause tumors in rats (1). Thiram can react with nitrate under mildly acidic conditions, like those in the human stomach, to form n-nitroso-dimethylamine, which has been shown to be carcinogenic in test animals (8).
> All of the EBDC pesticides can be degraded or metabolized into ethylenethiourea (ETU), which has been classified as a probable human carcinogen by the EPA (10, 11). Marked increases in the incidence of liver tumors were observed in mice fed 32.3 mg/kg of ETU daily for 80 weeks. Rats fed 8.75 or 17.5 mg/kg daily for 18 months developed malignant thyroid tumors. In rats fed ETU at doses of 0.1, 1.25, 6.25, 12.5 or 25 mg/kg/day for nearly 2 years, a dose related increase in thyroid tumors was observed at the 12.5 and 25 mg/kg doses. Female mice fed doses of 16.7 or 50 mg/kg/day ETU for up to 2 years exhibited 58 and 96% incidence of malignant liver tumors, respectively. In this same study, there was also a significant increase in the incidence of thyroid tumors at the 50 mg/kg dose level (10).
> ...






I wouldn't give this shit to your plants on an ongoing basis. 
DO NOT FOLIAR FEED WITH IT, ESPECIALLY IN FLOWERING. You don't want to inhale it. I suggest you flush the shit out of your plant before harvest. 


We need to find an IBA product that doesn't contain a pesticide. FDD, what are you using?


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## thegigglepimp (Mar 31, 2008)

This is the comparison in my experiment with photos: 

Here is the seedling before i used the root gel solution:






This is her sis, both planted at the same time, this on emerged a day or two before the above one, and it was never that dark colour or had that problem with the leaves (apart from that slit lol)






Now these are them compared 4 /5 days later, the one on the right is the one i used the solution with.






Here it is up close:






This is my first time growing so this may have happened anyway, but its a bit suprising that it has out grown the other one, when they were both on exactly the same water and lighting throughout. Whats your thoughts?


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## panhead (Mar 31, 2008)

thegigglepimp said:


> Whats your thoughts?


My thoughts ? confusion,i really dont know what to make of any of this yet,i think the real proof is going to come after we all harvest the seedlings & clones we treated,that way we've got a better idea.

By the way everybodies plants are showing differences i'd think its safe to say that something is going on,what that is i dont know


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## STANDOX (Mar 31, 2008)

not to be used as a male growth inhancer


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## FrostickZero (Mar 31, 2008)

Well I'm gona be trying a few things but only 1 at a time and I will keep track and I will even make a journal of it


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## Maccabee (Mar 31, 2008)

You didn't spray that shit on, did you Panhead?


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## fdd2blk (Mar 31, 2008)

Maccabee said:


> That's a beauty you've got there, Panhead. The buds are so packed they're practically dripping off the stalk! Which makes me feel awful to have to ask you this:
> 
> What's the brand on your Rootone? I have "Rootone" powder from GardenTech, it's active ingredients are listed as NAA and Thiram!
> 
> ...





i'm using this..................http://www.technaflora.com/sharedfiles/RootechDefaultEnglish(US)_MeOH_Prop.pdf


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## Maccabee (Mar 31, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i'm using this.....View attachment 93765.............http://www.technaflora.com/sharedfiles/RootechDefaultEnglish(US)_MeOH_Prop.pdf


That seems safe. I don't see a pesticide in there, all the toxicity has to do with the gel the hormones are suspended in. The LD50s are waaay high. 

It does say that the gel compounds are mildly corrosive when inhaled and can be a skin irritant, so I'd still flush well and if you've been applying it directly make sure there isn't any of the stuff on the buds/leaves at harvest time (or for that matter on plant matter you're going to have to handle during harvest/trimming.)

This may be an excess of caution, but that seems wiser than throwing it to the wind.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 31, 2008)

Maccabee said:


> That seems safe. I don't see a pesticide in there, all the toxicity has to do with the gel the hormones are suspended in. The LD50s are waaay high.
> 
> It does say that the gel compounds are mildly corrosive when inhaled and can be a skin irritant, so I'd still flush well and if you've been applying it directly make sure there isn't any of the stuff on the buds/leaves at harvest time (or for that matter on plant matter you're going to have to handle during harvest/trimming.)
> 
> This may be an excess of caution, but that seems wiser than throwing it to the wind.



better safe than sick, i always say.


----------



## STANDOX (Mar 31, 2008)

i use the same shit


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## panhead (Mar 31, 2008)

Maccabee said:


> You didn't spray that shit on, did you Panhead?


No,it was mixed into a think paste then remixed with water & fed to the plant durring its normal watering,its a soil grow.

No foliar feeding has been done & the plant was fed the mixture one time.

The brand is Schultz Take Root & its a powder.


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## pinksensa (Mar 31, 2008)

maccabee you certainly freaked me the fuck out!!!!!!!


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## thegigglepimp (Mar 31, 2008)

this is the one i used :






Organic, so i assume no pesticides? 

"Does not contain synthetic growth hormones and fungicides found in hormone 
rooting powder.

Children and pets need not be excluded from the treated area." 

The stuff stinks though so definitely will do an extensive flush if i continue to use it incase it affects taste..


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## panhead (Mar 31, 2008)

pinksensa said:


> maccabee you certainly freaked me the fuck out!!!!!!!


Same here,ive got the plant in the pic,another plant that was ready to harvest,4 seedlings & 4 clones,all treated.

I sent the Schultz Co an email asking them if the contents are safe for food or safe for root feeding tobacco plants that are to be smoked.


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## pinksensa (Mar 31, 2008)

panhead said:


> Same here,ive got the plant in the pic,another plant that was ready to harvest,4 seedlings & 4 clones,all treated.
> 
> I sent the Schultz Co an email asking them if the contents are safe for food or safe for root feeding tobacco plants that are to be smoked.


I would have to.....and the thing is there are too many unaswered questions....like will flushing the hell out of them really back track something that is an inherent part of the plant now????


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## Maccabee (Mar 31, 2008)

Well, I didn't find any pesticides in the info on TakeRoot, but I couldn't find a material safety data sheet for it, so it's hard to say for sure. the 99.9% "other ingredients" makes me nervous, but on the other hand I think pesticides _have_ to be labeled on the bottle. 

Pink, if you've been foliar feeding with it I'd mist lightly with water for a few days and don't harvest immediately if you're getting close. You can wipe down the stalk where you've applied it with a little distilled water before harvest gets too close. 

I would flush well, maybe a little bit more than usual. Excess hormone in the plant tissue isn't really a problem, but pesticide deposits are. I would think that flushing and misting would help with that just as it does with fertilizer buildup in/on the plant. I wish I could say more authoritatively, but I'm not a trained botanist or chemist. 

But as it stands, *I'm* the only one who seems to have a rooting/hormone compound that we _know for sure_ has a dangerous pesticide in it. (I haven't fed it to my plants yet luckily enough.) So, people, don't buy GardenTech Rootone. The Rootech that FDD is using seems fine, once the gel dries up. The gel might be a mild irritant to the plant tissue, and you don't want to breathe/smoke the residue, or get it all over your hands, but that's about it. It's certainly not carcinogenic or wildly pathogenic like the Thiram in the Rootone is. 

Panhead, I'm curious to find out what Schultz tells you.

Gigglepimp, that stuff looks fine but I'm not sure it will actually do anything for you. What's in it?


Anyone using other brands?


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## thegigglepimp (Mar 31, 2008)

Maccabee: Well unless its coincidence it seems to have promoted growth in a seedling of mine which i thought was worthless. I'll try look into the ingredients.


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## Maccabee (Mar 31, 2008)

thegigglepimp said:


> Maccabee: Well unless its coincidence it seems to have promoted growth in a seedling of mine which i thought was worthless. I'll try look into the ingredients.


It might be great stuff, I'm just wondering what's in it if not hormones....


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## thegigglepimp (Mar 31, 2008)

i didnt mean that in an argumentative way just to point out lol just realized it could have sounded a bit harsh. I cant find anything on the net. I'll post in about ten when i check the container.


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## pinksensa (Mar 31, 2008)

I have only used the rootech gel and only the one application....the day after it had dried there was some white residue that was left that i wiped away that day....I dont foliar feed or anything else I just applied to the points noted in my pics the one time.


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## thegigglepimp (Mar 31, 2008)

Maccabee: Surprisingly there is no ingredients at all on the tub. I wasnt aware that it was legal to do this? All it says is "Natural Oils allow you to simply dip and plant. contains no synthetic growth hormones or fungicides as found in other manufactured hormone rooting liquids" I found their website and theres nothing on there either :S


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## Maccabee (Mar 31, 2008)

thegigglepimp said:


> Maccabee: Surprisingly there is no ingredients at all on the tub. I wasnt aware that it was legal to do this? All it says is "Natural Oils allow you to simply dip and plant. contains no synthetic growth hormones or fungicides as found in other manufactured hormone rooting liquids" I found their website and theres nothing on there either :S


Well, then it's probably not dangerous but it's hard to know if it's doing anything. As with most things, probably best to keep it off the buds and leaves and out of the water as you near harvest.


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## panhead (Mar 31, 2008)

Maccabee said:


> Well, I didn't find any pesticides in the info on TakeRoot, but I couldn't find a material safety data sheet for it, so it's hard to say for sure. the 99.9% "other ingredients" makes me nervous, but on the other hand I think pesticides _have_ to be labeled on the bottle.
> 
> 
> But as it stands, *I'm* the only one who seems to have a rooting/hormone compound that we _know for sure_ has a dangerous pesticide in it. (I haven't fed it to my plants yet luckily enough.) So, people, don't buy GardenTech Rootone. The Rootech that FDD is using seems fine, once the gel dries up. The gel might be a mild irritant to the plant tissue, and you don't want to breathe/smoke the residue, or get it all over your hands, but that's about it. It's certainly not carcinogenic or wildly pathogenic like the Thiram in the Rootone is.
> ...


See now thats where im at right now,i never thought about pesticides until you mentioned it,i searched everywhere for the MSDS sheet on the stuff & i couldnt find it,hopefully they come through with the sheet soon.

My harvest is going to be large enough where i can afford to loose a few plants so im not taking any chances,if the stuff aint safe i aint smokin it until im sure.


----------



## MrsMcGreggor (Mar 31, 2008)

PAN Product Info for Schultz - rootone - rooting hormone

msds sheets may be found here.


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## panhead (Apr 1, 2008)

Thanks for the links guys,the stuff i used is called Schultz Take Root & i cant find much info on it at all,i looked under all the registered names of Root Tone in MS Mcgregors link & its not there either.

This is the stuff.

Schultz Take Root Rooting Hormone Powder 2 oz: HY from Kalyx.com - Hydroponics & Gardening - Nutrients, Rooting & Propagation


----------



## FrostickZero (Apr 1, 2008)

panhead said:


> Thanks for the links guys,the stuff i used is called Schultz Take Root & i cant find much info on it at all,i looked under all the registered names of Root Tone in MS Mcgregors link & its not there either.


hey panhead I just got some pics of the new suplies that I bought take a look in about 5


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## panhead (Apr 1, 2008)

I got the emailed version of the msds from Schultz a little while ago,the product Take Root (what i used) lists the ingredients as Indole-3-Butaric acid & the inert ingredients as (Talc) non asbestos talc's of less than 1% free silicon,no pesticides or other ingredients are listed.

Hmmmm.............im still worried,its a fat ass bud but i dont want to grow a 3rd eyeball or have my head swell up like a pumpkin from smokin it either.

Does anybody see any problems associated with the talc they listed as the ingredient ?


----------



## fdd2blk (Apr 1, 2008)

both the plants that i put gel on the stalk are stunted. they have fat stalks where i applied it but the height is half of the others.


----------



## Maccabee (Apr 1, 2008)

Nah. As long as it's non-asbestos you'd have to be exposed to kinds of concentration a miner or factory worker processing the stuff would see and even then it's just an inert dust hazard. And I doubt any talc was taken up by the plant anyway, I would think it would be suspended in the nute solution. 


I think you're good to go.


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## panhead (Apr 1, 2008)

Maccabee said:


> Nah. As long as it's non-asbestos you'd have to be exposed to kinds of concentration a miner or factory worker processing the stuff would see and even then it's just an inert dust hazard. And I doubt any talc was taken up by the plant anyway, I would think it would be suspended in the nute solution.
> 
> 
> I think you're good to go.


Ha,thanks,that makes me feel better,hopefully that bud will just keep swelling up till it bursts 

Edit .NIOSH Document: Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards: Talc (containing no asbestos and less than 1% quartz) | CDC/NIOSH


----------



## onehitwonder (Apr 2, 2008)

? did you rubb rooting gel on a seed then germinate just wondedring!?


----------



## panhead (Apr 2, 2008)

onehitwonder said:


> ? did you rubb rooting gel on a seed then germinate just wondedring!?


Everybody in this experiement did different things,all the information is in the thread starting at the 1st post,in order to know what we all did you need to read the whole thread.


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## fdd2blk (Apr 2, 2008)

where's everyone's pics? i will take more, i've had things happen, but not until i see some others.


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## panhead (Apr 2, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> where's everyone's pics? i will take more, i've had things happen, but not until i see some others.


My next pics will be comming friday evening or saturday morning.


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## fdd2blk (Apr 2, 2008)

panhead said:


> My next pics will be comming friday evening or saturday morning.



i eagerly await.


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## pinksensa (Apr 2, 2008)

Hey I put my pics up for the week!!!!


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## fdd2blk (Apr 2, 2008)

pinksensa said:


> Hey I put my pics up for the week!!!!




i'll take some in the morning. 1 of the plants is in my greenhouse and it's dark out right now.


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## pinksensa (Apr 2, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i'll take some in the morning. 1 of the plants is in my greenhouse and it's dark out right now.


 
yeah!!!!!!!!!!!


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## thegigglepimp (Apr 3, 2008)

i made a small cut on the stem of one of my Salvia plants, and just like you guys, the stem has fattened out big time just when i applied it, but only on the corners :S i'll upload pictures soon.


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## thegigglepimp (Apr 3, 2008)

Heres some pics: 












As you can see just the corners expanded, and brown specs, i guess from the cut. I wouldnt say this was beneficial? I dont know possibly stronger stems if anything?


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## budhugger (Apr 3, 2008)

You guys this is very interesting. I think it would be better if we started a diary of diferent things u guys tried and compare notes.and had control plants to monitor progress through out the whole cycle. This could take years of study to find the exact times to apply the hormone and when not to. Maybe u guys that want to experiment with this and not wast time with duplicate procedures get together and start a study of this. It would be better if all involved with the study used the same strain and follow the same feeding schedual and same methode of growing. and if everyone tried diferent ways and times to give out the hormone it may tell us sooner what works and dont work.
just a thought but interesting just the same.

good luck all with what u guys are doing. this could have impact on the way we grow in the future


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## fdd2blk (Apr 3, 2008)

this is the clone that i put gel on after trimming a few lower side branches. it's smaller and it's leaves are all spotty.......

   




this is the seedling i put gel on the bottom of the stalk when it was a few nodes high. it too is shorter but the leaves look fine.......


 


plant next to it. same strain started at the same time.........


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## thegigglepimp (Apr 3, 2008)

Very interesting, there seems to be ups and downs to this. Just need to try and narrow it down to the best time/ method of application.


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## DaSprout (Apr 3, 2008)

You're all mad! Mad I tells ya'!!
You think that just because you can pour some nutes on a seed, throw im' under some fake sunshine, and then cut him up. For what? To then rub your steroids all over the cuts, just to mutate the poor plant. All for your own selfish gains? You bastards. You evil bastards.
I hope this works out nicely. I think I might just give it a try.

Evil.


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## DaSprout (Apr 3, 2008)

You people have forgotten. Use. Don't abuse. Keep your plants of drugs. I mean off alot of drugs.


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## panhead (Apr 4, 2008)

Here's a pic of the bud ive been calling "The Moose" since the start of this experiment,this plant has been treated one time with Take Root cloning powder,fed to her in her water.

So far i see no signs of bud production slowing down,note the new calyx development that looks like little chunks sticking out on the top & left hand side of the pic,i didnt have time to take a measurement but its obvious that its still growing.

What im finding really strange is that the hairs are not turning red at all,on my other plants from this strain most have been harvested & the one remaining will be comming down on sunday morning,also the trichs on the other plants were mostly honey colored when i took them down but this one's thrich's are still 100% clear all over.

Im convinced at this point that the hormone had something to do with the growth rate of this plant & allowing it to bud longer than the others.







I forgot this wide angle shot,also taken today.


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## aintgottabhwd (Apr 4, 2008)

Thats very interesting pan head. How much are you giving them in the water?


----------



## panhead (Apr 4, 2008)

aintgottabhwd said:


> Thats very interesting pan head. How much are you giving them in the water?


I only fed it to her one time but i did give her a massive dose,i mixed 5 tblspns up with a little water & made a paste,then mixed it slowly with her water along with her normal nutes then fed her,i also used some of the paste before feeding it to her to treat 4 seedlings & 4 clones, so maybe right around 4 1/4 tblspns were fed to this plant.


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## thegigglepimp (Apr 4, 2008)

panhead said:


> Here's a pic of the bud ive been calling "The Moose" since the start of this experiment,this plant has been treated one time with Take Root cloning powder,fed to her in her water.
> 
> So far i see no signs of bud production slowing down,note the new calyx development that looks like little chunks sticking out on the top & left hand side of the pic,i didnt have time to take a measurement but its obvious that its still growing.
> 
> ...


Fuck me mate, that looks gorgeous. I hope it smokes well!! Did you only water it the once then? And have you began flushing yet? Im wondering if when you begin to flush it will slow down growth rate and trichs will begin to mature.


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## MrsMcGreggor (Apr 4, 2008)

Panhead you remind me of someone else.


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## fdd2blk (Apr 4, 2008)

that's the wickedest "caveman club" bud i've ever seen. wow. smack someone in the side of the head with that. lol


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## panhead (Apr 4, 2008)

thegigglepimp said:


> Fuck me mate, that looks gorgeous. I hope it smokes well!! Did you only water it the once then? And have you began flushing yet? Im wondering if when you begin to flush it will slow down growth rate and trichs will begin to mature.


Yeah,just the one time,i had planned on doing some other stuff to her & to keep feding her the hormone once a week but the discussion brought up a bunch of things i had no idea about,like stunted growth & such so i left her alone after the first treatment.

I have not started flushing her yet & dont plan to till its very close to being ready,to tell the truth i hope its never ready,i'd love to go check on her & find that the bud just kept swelling up until it burst like a water baloon


----------



## panhead (Apr 4, 2008)

MrsMcGreggor said:


> Panhead you remind me of someone else.


Ms McGreggor,i always get a big smile on my face when you post 

May i use that picture,i'd like to have it for a screen saver


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## panhead (Apr 4, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> that's the wickedest "caveman club" bud i've ever seen. wow. smack someone in the side of the head with that. lol


I instantly thought of "alley oop" when i read your post 

Any ideas on how im supposed to dry that bud when i harvest it,im worried that the density is such that if i use normal drying techniques that it will mold up on me.


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## MrsMcGreggor (Apr 4, 2008)

yes ofcourse you may.... its all yours....


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## JohnnyBravo (Apr 4, 2008)

panhead said:


> I forgot this wide angle shot,also taken today.


If I had a bud like that, I think I would have to throw my wife out of the bed to make room for it....Keep it warm and such....and I would love it and squeeze it


----------



## fdd2blk (Apr 4, 2008)

panhead said:


> I instantly thought of "alley oop" when i read your post
> 
> Any ideas on how im supposed to dry that bud when i harvest it,im worried that the density is such that if i use normal drying techniques that it will mold up on me.



just trim it and hang it. it won't mold.


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## panhead (Apr 4, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> just trim it and hang it. it won't mold.


Cool,can you do me a favor,if you dont mind can you update your thread about the hijack reveg with instructions on how to go about a proper reveg,im clueless as how to do a reveg,i have an idea but no experience.

I do know that i want to try & reveg the moose after she's harvested to use as a mother & see if the growth rate will carry over to her clones.


----------



## fdd2blk (Apr 4, 2008)

panhead said:


> Cool,can you do me a favor,if you dont mind can you update your thread about the hijack reveg with instructions on how to go about a proper reveg,im clueless as how to do a reveg,i have an idea but no experience.
> 
> I do know that i want to try & reveg the moose after she's harvested to use as a mother & see if the growth rate will carry over to her clones.


i think i said in the first post what i did. just leave as many leaves on it as you can, trim off the buds, put it back on 18/6 and give it some nitrogen. i posted new pics this morning.


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## panhead (Apr 4, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i think i said in the first post what i did. just leave as many leaves on it as you can, trim off the buds, put it back on 18/6 and give it some nitrogen. i posted new pics this morning.


Cool,im checkin it out now.


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## jimmyspaz (Apr 7, 2008)

I found a side branch almost completely broken off from the weight of the end bud a couple of days ago(6 weeks flowering). I mixed up a paste of rooting powder and water put on the break and tied the branch back up. Today I checked it and TAH DAH!! healed right up with a bit of a lump where it was broken. I don't know if the rooting powder made any difference but....


----------



## panhead (Apr 7, 2008)

I went to the garden today & have nothing dramatic to report on "The Moose",the buds are still expanding but at a more normal pace,the only real change is that the trich's are now cloudy where on the last inspection they were 100% clear,still no red hairs at all.

I decided to give her another dose of the Take Root to see if it will induce new growth,last time she was fed 5 tblspoons of the hormone but this time i decided to only feed her a single tblspn with her water & normal nutes, along with 2 tblspns molasses.

With the seedlings there is nothing dramatic,the seedlings that were treated are doing great,no issues with fatter stalks or stunted growth,the leaves on the seedlings seem a little healthier over the non treated seedlings but nothing dramatic.

The treated clones show no signs of fatter stalks,no stunted growth or anything that would make them stand out from the non treated clones, except for the possibility that their leaves look a little healthier but im not sure about that either way.


----------



## pinksensa (Apr 9, 2008)

OOOOOPPPPPS I broke the top of my momma last night and immediately cloned it and where the break occured I gooped up with root gel and it closed up overnite into like a point instead of remaining a cut edge...pics tomorrow I promise!!


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## jimmyspaz (Apr 10, 2008)

jimmyspaz said:


> I found a side branch almost completely broken off from the weight of the end bud a couple of days ago(6 weeks flowering). I mixed up a paste of rooting powder and water put on the break and tied the branch back up. Today I checked it and TAH DAH!! healed right up with a bit of a lump where it was broken. I don't know if the rooting powder made any difference but....


Now completely healed. Still a lump where the break was but the branch is firmly attached and the buds on it are maturing nicely, will probably harvest it next week. Thanx fdd, I did not know about this until I read this thread.


----------



## fdd2blk (Apr 10, 2008)

jimmyspaz said:


> Now completely healed. Still a lump where the break was but the branch is firmly attached and the buds on it are maturing nicely, will probably harvest it next week. Thanx fdd, I did not know about this until I read this thread.



i love experiments.


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## nowstopwhining (Apr 10, 2008)

So panhead how much rooting podwer did you mix into the water when you used it...and did you only use it once?


----------



## pharlow (Apr 10, 2008)

AFTER first seein this link i decided to try it wow i put it on some leaves and they are now retarted


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## panhead (Apr 10, 2008)

nowstopwhining said:


> So panhead how much rooting podwer did you mix into the water when you used it...and did you only use it once?


The plant in the pics that ive named The Moose there was one treatment,i mixed 5 tblspns of the Take Root with a small amount of water & made a paste,took a little of the paste for other experiments so i figure i was left with roughly 4 1/2 tblspns of the paste.

I mixed the 4 1/2 tblspns of paste with her water & some molasses & watered her.

I have since gave her another dose but not a massive dose like the first,i wont see the plant again until tomorrow so i'll know then if the extra dose had any effect.


----------



## JackTheBongRipper (Apr 10, 2008)

...waiting for the continuing saga of "The Moose". Just awesome.

I love all the experiments. I'm sure a lot of you have already thought about this, but... a good method to end all debate would be to get about 20 plants and test them methodically. 5 in a control group, 5 given rooting hormone during veg, 5 given none during veg but during flowering, and the last 5 given hormone the whole time. I don't have enough space for that, but it would be informative I think. You could even test different kinds of hormone to see what worked better. 

Cheers


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## panhead (Apr 17, 2008)

JackTheBongRipper said:


> ...waiting for the continuing saga of "The Moose". Just awesome.
> Cheers


The moose gave it up early this morning,Timber !

Her main cola weighed out at 171 grams trimmed & wet,her total yeild weight was 486 grams wet, not counting about 15 grams of mini hash buds.

My best untreated plant from the same strain gave a 109 gram cola with a total yeild weight of 367 grams trimmed & wet.

I think it's safe to say that the hormones had an effect on final yeild weight as well as bud size & growth rate,now i need to plan ahead & give it to my next batch of this strain at exactly the same time in the bud cycle & keep the amounts the same also.


----------



## thegigglepimp (Apr 17, 2008)

fuck me panhead thats awesome. All you have left to do is the taste test!!


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## panhead (Apr 17, 2008)

thegigglepimp said:


> fuck me panhead thats awesome. All you have left to do is the taste test!!


If these guy's taste anything like the last one's i harvested i'll be in heaven,this grow exceeded my expectations in every way,especially in the yeild.


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## thegigglepimp (Apr 17, 2008)

If they do which im sure they will... Then you may have discovered an amazing technique to boost yield. From now on all you can do is try and maximize the use of the root gel. Worst that could happen is you get a average yield.. Best that could happen.. well we can only imagine lol


----------



## MrsMcGreggor (Apr 17, 2008)

sob sob
I wanntasee moose befor he fall down. no pics??? 
sob sob sob


----------



## panhead (Apr 17, 2008)

MrsMcGreggor said:


> sob sob
> I wanntasee moose befor he fall down. no pics???
> sob sob sob


No before chop pic's but i will put up some after drying pic's.

Right now the moose is sitting quietly in her now pot with new soil & a good shot of nitrogen,im hoping for half as good results revegging her as fdd got with his hijack.

It was tough to cut her down though.


----------



## GrowGain (Apr 18, 2008)

Congratulations, Panhead - that's a beauty. This whole thread has given me a new line of interest for my current grow. Was the Moose growing in soil or hydro?


----------



## Seamaiden (Apr 18, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> just the main stalk. it's all swollen. three times the size of the other ones.


You knocked up your plant.


----------



## panhead (Apr 18, 2008)

GrowGain said:


> Congratulations, Panhead - that's a beauty. This whole thread has given me a new line of interest for my current grow. Was the Moose growing in soil or hydro?


The moose was grown in soil.


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## Budsworth (Apr 18, 2008)

God Bless the Moose.


----------



## apasunee (Apr 18, 2008)

MOOSE, MOOSE, MOOSE, MOOSE, MOOSE, MOOSE, MOOSE, MOOSE....LOL...........................


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## We TaRdED (Apr 18, 2008)

you should start a thread pan!!! it doesnt have to be like a detailed journal or anything, but i would like to subscribe to it...


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## tintala (Apr 20, 2008)

HORMEX is a cloning root gel , pretty spendy too, but it says right there ont the bottle, use as a weekly suplement to water your plants , along with reg feeding, so , i put 5 tsp in with my solution each time i mix, seems to work very good.


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## mistacurious (Apr 21, 2008)

so adding a concentrated paste of this stuff (after it is diluted) will give super yields? only after flowering or what? what do we know for sure?


----------



## mistacurious (Apr 21, 2008)

by the way love all the input and experimenting. love horticulture and getting ur hands dirty.


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## panhead (Apr 21, 2008)

mistacurious said:


> so adding a concentrated paste of this stuff (after it is diluted) will give super yields? only after flowering or what? what do we know for sure?


The only thing i know for sure is that something happened,i strongly suspect that the Take Root rooting hormone i used in the paste had an effect on growth & yeild.

What we do know for sure i that not all brands of cloning powder are safe to use,for example Root Tone is not the right stuff due to pesticides in the powder.


----------



## Seamaiden (Apr 21, 2008)

panhead said:


> The only thing i know for sure is that something happened,i strongly suspect that the Take Root rooting hormone i used in the paste had an effect on growth & yeild.
> 
> What we do know for sure i that not all brands of cloning powder are safe to use,for example Root Tone is not the right stuff due to pesticides in the powder.


Crap! That's the only stuff I've used before, admittedly many many moons ago and with plants like geraniums. I'm wondering if there's a FAQ on rooting hormones... haven't run across anything just yet.


----------



## panhead (Apr 21, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> Crap! That's the only stuff I've used before, admittedly many many moons ago and with plants like geraniums. I'm wondering if there's a FAQ on rooting hormones... haven't run across anything just yet.


For regular colning Root Tone is ok but for giving full grown plants massive doses of the hormone seems a bad thing.

I was looking for Root Tone & they only had one bottle of it so i bought the one bottle then decided to buy the Take Root at the same time,im sold on the Take Root stuff.


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## skullsmasher (Apr 21, 2008)

Sp do you think that theoretically the water with rooting hormone in it just increased the amount of roots the plant developed and therefore the amount of nutrients it could uptake?

I am going to go give soem of my clones that are budding early that I dont really care about, a dose of my rootex cloning gel in with their water.


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## panhead (Apr 21, 2008)

skullsmasher said:


> Sp do you think that theoretically the water with rooting hormone in it just increased the amount of roots the plant developed and therefore the amount of nutrients it could uptake?
> 
> I am going to go give soem of my clones that are budding early that I dont really care about, a dose of my rootex cloning gel in with their water.


I have no clue,i suspect that it has little or nothing to do with creating more roots,these plants were 3 ft tall with massive root systems before adding the hormone,i pulled all the plants & the ones without the hormone had pretty much the same root system as the plant that was heavily treated.


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## skullsmasher (Apr 21, 2008)

now I see why you have no idea then........hmmmmmmmmmm, wtf??


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## Cyphen (Apr 21, 2008)

skullsmasher said:


> Sp do you think that theoretically the water with rooting hormone in it just increased the amount of roots the plant developed and therefore the amount of nutrients it could uptake?
> 
> I am going to go give soem of my clones that are budding early that I dont really care about, a dose of my rootex cloning gel in with their water.


Indole-3 Butyric Acid stimulates general cell division ,hence growth, wherever absorbed. It does not have any specific effect on rooting ability (outside the obvious implication of increased growth rates.) My guess is the large dose gave it a massive kick in the ass towards growth right at the point when the plant was focusing its resources on budding.


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## Seamaiden (Apr 21, 2008)

Cyphen said:


> Indole-3 Butyric Acid stimulates general cell division ,hence growth, wherever absorbed. It does not have any specific effect on rooting ability (outside the obvious implication of increased growth rates.) My guess is the large dose gave it a massive kick in the ass towards growth right at the point when the plant was focusing its resources on budding.


Ok, that's spoken like someone who knows there shit, right there. Spill the beans! what else do you know?


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## panhead (Apr 21, 2008)

Cyphen said:


> Indole-3 Butyric Acid stimulates general cell division ,hence growth, wherever absorbed. It does not have any specific effect on rooting ability (outside the obvious implication of increased growth rates.) My guess is the large dose gave it a massive kick in the ass towards growth right at the point when the plant was focusing its resources on budding.


My thoughts exactly,from what ive been learning of Indole-3 it does just what you said,from some of the other things ive read it's pretty unpredictable as far as effect.

I kept a pretty decent log of things i did to different plants & at what stage of the grow these things were done,next round i plan on giving half of them the exact doseage at the exact same time into their flowering cycle.

I think the stuff works wonders but being that im not a botanist or master gardner anything i think is pure speculation.


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## skullsmasher (Apr 21, 2008)

Here are my plants, the two in one pot in the front and the two directly next to it I have given rootex cloning gel, approx 1 1/2 tbsp mixed with 1-11/2 pints of PHd water total, spread out to them all. They are over 1 month and a half old and flowered early so I dont necessarily care about them right now, they are giving me problems, cant get em back to veg it seems.

this is all legal BTW, I am a caretaker.


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## Cyphen (Apr 21, 2008)

panhead said:


> My thoughts exactly,from what ive been learning of Indole-3 it does just what you said,from some of the other things ive read it's pretty unpredictable as far as effect.
> 
> I kept a pretty decent log of things i did to different plants & at what stage of the grow these things were done,next round i plan on giving half of them the exact doseage at the exact same time into their flowering cycle.
> 
> I think the stuff works wonders but being that im not a botanist or master gardner anything i think is pure speculation.


Yea, I'm with you. This thread has really inspired me (along with many it seems) to start really examining and playing with phytohormones. I've got four plants about 3 weeks in flowering that I've begun foliar feeding with a light IBA / nute mix, as well as supplementing their regular watering with a more concentrated version of same. It's impossible to speak conclusively without any control group, but I'm very happy with what I've been seeing.

My unwarranted speculation regarding the apparent unpredictability is that IBA serves as a rapid boost to whatever phase of growth the plant is currently undergoing, i.e; if the plant has had its root system severed, and is diverting local nutrients & presumably phytohormones to the wounded area, IBA will signal immediate and rapid (comparatively) growth specifically in the root zone. When the plant is diverting all its internal resources to flower formation, I would expect a large dose of IBA to be delivered to the bud sites and have its greatest effect specifically on bud growth. Just like giving testosterone to a runner and a rower, both will experience massive growth, but in very different ways, according to their individual training parameters.

I think there is some amazing promise here, as you've very impressively demonstrated, and some really exciting experimentation to be done in the general area of plant hormones. Regardless of what's known to be certain, I think IBA is definitely worth using almost any time of growth (one $5 jar could go heavy for at least one or two grows)


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## Golden420 (Apr 21, 2008)

Im sold ! Im gonna give it a shot.


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## Cyphen (Apr 21, 2008)

Also, I think the result is highly subject to the available nutrients. In other words, give it to a seedling, or a nutrient deprived plant, and you will probably see little difference, since the available nutrient levels are so low. Consequently, it could be expected that a hydroponically grown plant would respond more noticeably than a soil grown plan, due to the more constant levels of easily absorbed nutrients.


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## mistacurious (Apr 21, 2008)

been keeping up with this everyday. great job everyone. and yes nute utilization does make sense. but i remember a while back someone thought this would let you stay in 12/12 longer? like longer flowering time?


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## MrsMcGreggor (Apr 22, 2008)

but i remember a while back someone thought this would let you stay in 12/12 longer? like longer flowering time?
that was the growth cycle of da moose...... sniffle sniffle
and with out the pics I fear it will become only a faided memory.
And not The shinning example N PotStareAtDe We all strive for.


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## mistacurious (Apr 22, 2008)

how are the experiments goin panhead?


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## panhead (Apr 22, 2008)

mistacurious said:


> how are the experiments goin panhead?


Everything from that grow has been harvested,the main test plant had a much larger yeild over all the others,she also had a lengthened bud cycle durring the time that the trichomes change colors.


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## tintala (Apr 28, 2008)

I have been adding hormex gel to my solution everytime i change nutes, it says rigt there on the bottle to feed your plants with it, I beleive it also reduces stress , use it right up to the end ,it has inreased vitality fer ser.!


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## Seamaiden (Apr 28, 2008)

panhead said:


> Everything from that grow has been harvested,the main test plant had a much larger yeild over all the others,she also had a lengthened bud cycle durring the time that the trichomes change colors.


Oh hey.. um... you'd let us know if you like.. you know, dropped a 2nd set of balls or something really weird, right?  All this talk of hormones...


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## Cyphen (Apr 28, 2008)

Plant hormones are entirely different than human hormones. As well, they are already present to some degree in any fruit or vegetable produce, so it's guaranteed you're getting some level of phytohormone ingestion already (unless you live in America, where it's entirely possible your diet contains little to no organic material.)

And finally, everybody knows Panhead already twice the nuts of any mortal man, so the whole point is moot from the start.


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## panhead (Apr 28, 2008)

Cyphen said:


> And finally, everybody knows Panhead already twice the nuts of any mortal man, so the whole point is moot from the start.


You try going 50 years without wearing any underwear & see how low your sack hangs .


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## mistacurious (Apr 28, 2008)

just got some underwear.


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## Seamaiden (Apr 28, 2008)

Aw, my joke fel/ f\at..|/_


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## fdd2blk (Apr 28, 2008)

i'm still watching all this.


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## IndicaFarmer420 (Apr 28, 2008)

lol rooting gel is a sterilizer and also contains harmones too stimulate growth and development hense why the results stems also swell due too the main tap root bottoming out in the pot or cup and allows the plant too feel secure enough too intake vast amounts of water swelling the plant tissues within the stock strengthining and allowing for new upper growth


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## can.i.buz (Apr 29, 2008)

Just a thought but did you know that venus fly traps have the fastest growing cells in the plant kingdom? I just sprayed the shit out of my VFT plant. What was that movie about that plant????


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## fdd2blk (Apr 29, 2008)

can.i.buz said:


> Just a thought but did you know that venus fly traps have the fastest growing cells in the plant kingdom? I just sprayed the shit out of my VFT plant. What was that movie about that plant????


feed me seymore, feed me. 

hide the meat.


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## can.i.buz (Apr 29, 2008)

AND they eat pests that seem to bother cannabis. What can we brew up?


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## can.i.buz (Apr 29, 2008)

unfortunately, my camera went to the bottom of the pacific ocean on Sunday. I'm getting a new one this weekend. My iPhone does weird things when I try to take pictures in the room with the hps light. What's that about?
Pictures to come soon.


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## jimmyspaz (Apr 30, 2008)

Ah yes "Little Shop Of Horrors". I prefer the original myself....


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## Golden420 (Apr 30, 2008)

I tryed putting root gel on one of my baby vegers and wow the bottom stem is fat compared to the others, I think I must explore more.


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## thegigglepimp (Apr 30, 2008)

can.i.buz: yeah i noticed the same thing, probably the frame rate/focus not keeping up with the light or something. In a similar way old computer monitors play up on some cameras. 

I added some root gel to the water of my plants, and nothing noticeable. Although where two branches form in the same place, theres a couple of occasions where one of the two branches it much longer/ more developed than the other. Could that be the root gel? or just genetics?


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## can.i.buz (Apr 30, 2008)

Woah! Trippy. I just opened a photo I took of my plant on my iPhone in Photoshop. Have you done that? If you move your eyes back and forth it looks like a GIF. It moves. It's an optical illusion.


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## can.i.buz (Apr 30, 2008)

Here's the picture. Can you see it from here?


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## W33D (May 1, 2008)

This is all very interesting, FDD and Rollitup never ceases to amaze me.
So basically, apply rooting solution to stem when you want to stunt growth or thicken up the stem for a coming storm, and feed a diluted solution to increase cell division and overall growth in either flowering, veg, or repair phases? Stem break? Dab a little rooting gel and tie and tada all better. With that being said, lets see FDD or somebody graft different strains together, almost "frankensteining" a plant. That'd be somethin.


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## The Stig (May 1, 2008)

can.i.buz said:


> Here's the picture. Can you see it from here?


funny effect, probably because of the lines across the pic

weird that i don't get that kind of effect w/ my iphone when taking pics of the HID


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## GigZ Sixteen (May 1, 2008)

try it on some buds. maybe they'll swell like the stem


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## cyborgasm (May 3, 2008)

> lets see FDD or somebody graft different strains together, almost "frankensteining" a plant.


Now that is a cool idea!


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## cyborgasm (May 3, 2008)

Heck, if it works, not only would it be cool to make a plant with two different strains, but it could be useful too. After a harvest just leave your roots and lower stem in the soil and graft a clone onto it - no more worries over slow-to-develop root systems!

I'm definitely trying this if someone doesn't beat me to it!

Oh, sweet, I'm "Learning How to Roll" finally!


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## W33D (May 4, 2008)

No shit, pre-developed root systems. Imagine a small 6 inch clone with the root mass of a 4 footer. But then again the base stalk of the 4 footer would be waaay thicker than a skinny clones stem. Somebody should also make a litre or two of rooting hormone via willow tree. Fill a spray bottle and treat plants with it. Think it would cause this "frenzy" of cell division also? And where and to what extent?


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## thegigglepimp (May 4, 2008)

Is this how they graft tomatoes to tobacco plants etc?


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## cyborgasm (May 4, 2008)

I don't know, but I do know that people have successfully grafted hops onto cannabis root stocks and vice-versa.
*imagines making beer while smoking some white widow and strawberry cough*


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## fdd2blk (May 4, 2008)

i've been keeping this a secret. i revegged one of my hijacks. i had to lay it sideways when i repotted because of limited height. after a few weeks a root came to the surface. i started applying root gel. i have applied it continuously over the last month or two. i am hoping for a shoot to pop out.


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## panhead (May 4, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i've been keeping this a secret. i revegged one of my hijacks. i had to lay it sideways when i repotted because of limited height. after a few weeks a root came to the surface. i started applying root gel. i have applied it continuously over the last month or two. i am hoping for a shoot to pop out.
> 
> 
> View attachment 111752 View attachment 111753 View attachment 111755


Wow,that sucker looks like a tarantula or some shit .


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## thegigglepimp (May 4, 2008)

That shits crazy, that'l be brilliant if it develops a shoot


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## oh really??? (May 4, 2008)

wait so can you add it to seedlings? . . . . .was that already said  



. . . .Hey cyborgasm congrats on the promotion. i got mine yesterday. i'll rep ya


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## panhead (May 4, 2008)

MrsMcGreggor said:


> but i remember a while back someone thought this would let you stay in 12/12 longer? like longer flowering time?
> that was the growth cycle of da moose...... sniffle sniffle
> and with out the pics I fear it will become only a faided memory.
> And not The shinning example N PotStareAtDe We all strive for.


The Moose lives on !

I started revegging the moose following fdd's example thread,i cut her root ball down,transplanted her in fresh soil & have been giving her nitrogen once a week,she started showing new growth over the last few days now she has leaves,once she grows new branches i'll post a pic of her.

I cant wait to clone her & experiment again .

Thanks fdd.


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## fdd2blk (May 4, 2008)

panhead said:


> The Moose lives on !
> 
> I started revegging the moose following fdd's example thread,i cut her root ball down,transplanted her in fresh soil & have been giving her nitrogen once a week,she started showing new growth over the last few days now she has leaves,once she grows new branches i'll post a pic of her.
> 
> ...


thank you for trusting me.


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## can.i.buz (May 5, 2008)

Not sure if anyone has addressed this. I've read most of this thread so I apologize if I missed it. Can I still say that my buds are organic if I use root tone throughout the grow? I have some clones from the plants in my gallery that I've been spraying with the stuff. My leaves on my first plant were at most 4" across. Now the leaves on these clones are bigger than my hands. I cloned them on 3/28 and started spraying them with RT two weeks ago.


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## fdd2blk (May 5, 2008)

can.i.buz said:


> Not sure if anyone has addressed this. I've read most of this thread so I apologize if I missed it. Can I still say that my buds are organic if I use root tone throughout the grow? I have some clones from the plants in my gallery that I've been spraying with the stuff. My leaves on my first plant were at most 4" across. Now the leaves on these clones are bigger than my hands. I cloned them on 3/28 and started spraying them with RT two weeks ago.



is it organic root tone?  i'd say yes.


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## can.i.buz (May 5, 2008)

coo I've got a few strains that I'm experimenting with. RT/no RT. I'll get pictures in a few weeks when there's more to show.


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## thegigglepimp (May 6, 2008)

Ive been mixing small amount of rooting gel into my plants solution since my first post in this thread. But on one of my two plants. The two plants look entirely different, the one with root gel is really bushy with Loads of new growth where as the other one has barely any new growth and is taller / less bushy. This could be down to being under different light etc so im not saying its the root gel but its something to consider. 

Also the plant i have been giving the root gel has recently began to show something i have never seen before, and nor have the people whov been in my journal. This is again probably down to genetics, but the thing is the other plant isnt showing it.. Look:













The first image has 13 spikes in total (one small one is hidden in the photo) Im new to all this but ive never seen development like that in the center of the fan?!


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## 1freezy (May 6, 2008)

I want to see more of that!


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## can.i.buz (May 6, 2008)

looks like your leaf has an erection


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## jimmyspaz (May 6, 2008)

Has anyone tried this product?( Wilson liquid root stimulator) It lists nutes at 5-15-5 and 0.005% indole3-butyric acid. " For a_ fast_ start for new plants, seedlings, bedding plants, and shrubs" is what the blurb says..


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## Seamaiden (May 6, 2008)

Not I.

That odd leaf growth is interesting. It's reminding me of double-blossom cultivars and the like.


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## MrsMcGreggor (May 6, 2008)

and mr giggle..... I am sorry but I have to ask..
if you look out your window is this what you see?


You fellers are starting to worry me....
but I sure love for it....


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## closet grower (May 6, 2008)

I have that Wilson Roots Gel and I am going to mix it up and try it out on one of my plants. Tomorrow is their watering day. I'll let you know what happens in a few days.


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## panhead (May 6, 2008)

jimmyspaz said:


> Has anyone tried this product?( Wilson liquid root stimulator) It lists nutes at 5-15-5 and 0.005% indole3-butyric acid. " For a_ fast_ start for new plants, seedlings, bedding plants, and shrubs" is what the blurb says..


Indole-3 Butyric acid is the active ingredient in the Take Root Cloning powder that i feed the moose.


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## thegigglepimp (May 7, 2008)

MrsMcGreggor said:


> and mr giggle..... I am sorry but I have to ask..
> if you look out your window is this what you see?
> 
> 
> ...


lmao nope thank god 

edit: All the new leaves seem to have the same feature now lol


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## jimmyspaz (May 7, 2008)

panhead said:


> Indole-3 Butyric acid is the active ingredient in the Take Root Cloning powder that i feed the moose.


Thanx Pan.That's what I wanted to know. I'm using this now, will update with results.


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## can.i.buz (May 7, 2008)

hey guys, I've been googling and calling around and I can't find any truly organic rooting hormone. I found a recipe for a rooting tea made out of weeping willow bark but that's about it. Anyone have any ideas?


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## thegigglepimp (May 7, 2008)

My root gel claims that it is organic but i dont know how true this is. All i know is it fricken stinks. I have never smelled anything so vile in my life.


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## can.i.buz (May 7, 2008)

I went back 8 pages and didn't see you mention what you're using. Hook me up brother man! Stinky, pooh. No pain, no gain.


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## genfranco (May 7, 2008)

This is one of the coolest little projects that i have encountered in a while.... IS this going to be safe to consume... i would think so as long as you flush good... but hey...

So check this out... I donot use root gel.... I use this oldschool product called dip 'n grow... it works great for roots so i wonder if it will work for this... I went ahead and added 1/4 tsp to my clone bubbler (i have 1 seed in there and want to see what it will do... I also mixed 1/4 tsp of it into my spray bottle and sprayed my outside plant with it.... Will see in a couple of days.... I m not brave enough to do it on my 4 that i am flowering.. hehehe...Ill experiment on the outside sister and the seed for now... If it works good and doesnt kill it then ill add to the hydro ladies.... thanks for the find... ill let you know the results using this dip n grow... 


OH yeah by the way .. this dip and grow is like 7 bucks compared to 17 something for the root gel also its a concentrate i would definately recommend you checking it out.


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## 1freezy (May 7, 2008)

thegigglepimp said:


> My root gel claims that it is organic but i dont know how true this is. All i know is it fricken stinks. I have never smelled anything so vile in my life.


If it smells like shit it's usually organic as a good rule of thumb.

If you have killed bugs before please check my link -- https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/71231-help-bugs.html#post816287


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## can.i.buz (May 7, 2008)

anybody try the weeping willow bark tea?


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## thegigglepimp (May 7, 2008)

can.i.buz said:


> I went back 8 pages and didn't see you mention what you're using. Hook me up brother man! Stinky, pooh. No pain, no gain.


its called "growing success - organic rooting gel" Based in UK though so not sure if you could get it? It probably isnt the gel thats causing my plants to give me the thumbs up but its the only variable between my two plants that i can think of.


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## can.i.buz (May 7, 2008)

Anyone use this?

Thrive Alive B1 Green (Organic)
Thrive Alive is a natural general tonic for plants. Both versions (Red and Green) are good for soil, hydroponic and foliar sprays and offer a mild nutrient but are rich in B1 and natural growth hormones. Thrive Alive Green is 100% organic, contains humic acid and is derived from kelp. Best used as a supplement to your regular feeding program. 

Thrive Alive B1 Green is OMRI Listed. 

NPK Formula: 1-1-1.5


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## closet grower (May 8, 2008)

Ok... I have one new clone (Jack Herer) which I am currently raising to be my new mother plant. She rooted 2 weeks ago and I planted her in soil and have her in a rubbermaid box with 2-26watt cfl's - 100watt equivalent. She is on 24/0 lighting until she is 4 weeks old at which time I will shelf her and change her to 18/6 with the same type of lighting but adding 2 more cfl's. Two days ago I was taking her out of the box and I accidently ripped off one of the top branches.... I pulled out the Wilson Roots rooting gel and mixed 3 teaspoons into 2 litres of water and fed her half of it. This morning I checked on her and here is what I found. There are 3 new leaves and they aren't small, growing from the branch that had been torn off... I am totally amazed at the rate of growth in such a short period of time with this stuff. Take a look for yourself and tell me what you think.


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## can.i.buz (May 8, 2008)

I just planted some Jack Herer. What's your experience with that strain? What is it?


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## closet grower (May 8, 2008)

Jack Herer is an awesome strain consisting of Northern Lights, Haze and Skunk. Sometimes known as Jock Horror as well. I'v been growing this particular strain for 2 years now and I love it. I am experimenting with 5 plants at the moment and each one was cloned from the same mother and not one of them looks anything like the others. I love science.. lol Anyway, if Jack is harvested at just the right time and cured properly you will have one of the best body stones you've ever experienced. It starts in your toes and works it's way up and the high lasts anywhere from 2 to 4 hours... guaranteed. It a very smooth smoke and tastes quite nice as well. It's normally a very tall, somewhat thin plant ranging from 6 to 8 feet indoors but I have these 5 ladies down to 22 inches for the shortest and 33 inches for the tallest one. They are into their 4th week of flowering under a 600watt hps and are doing very well. Here's a couple pics for you...


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## can.i.buz (May 8, 2008)

they are lengthy sucker! I can't wait to experience them. So I'm guessing they're mostly indica. Off topic and yes I'm a chick. Where did you get those cute blue buckets?


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## closet grower (May 9, 2008)

lol... those cute little blue buckets are actualy nothing more than cheap pails I get at the Dollar store for a buck each.  I buy new ones for each grow. I get 2 per plant and use a screw to make 10 drainage holes in the bottom of the ones I put the plants in. I put the first bucket inside the second one for drainage runoff. Makes it so easy to get rid of the drainage water and the spouts make it easy to pour out too. No fuss, no mess. The smallest plant this time was grown in a bottled water bottle which I just cut the top off and it is also set inside of a blue bucket for drainage. I used the clear water bottle just so I could see exactly what it's root system was doing. It's a cheap little setup that works like a charm.


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## can.i.buz (May 9, 2008)

People that grow are some of the most creative people I know.


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## closet grower (May 9, 2008)

lol... yep we are so... we're all just trying to get the biggest bang for the buck I think. I myself am just trying to grow the best weed possible in as little space as possible. I can't do anything about the maturity times but that's ok.... I'm a very patient person.. most of the time...


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## marijuanajoe1982 (May 30, 2008)

pinksensa said:


> ok he heee hee I globbed up the bend break and i scored a couple of differerent random branches and put gel on it same gel as you rootech...I have always wanted to put root gel on the cut where I take a clone from who knows rooting gel could be like triple antibiotic or neosporin for planties...ill keep you updated...loll


-This is interesting to mention that. I once had a plant that had gotten damaged (darn cute deer) and started a strange growing pattern where basically the main cola was one of the lower branches (not THE lowest, like 3rd lowest). anyway, it was a really wierd angle for a plant to try and grow up from... (It actually turned out to be the biggest plant because of it but the stress turned it male). Anyway, it was too heavy and it broke clean off the plant one day and took the whole upper half of my largest plant with it. It was outdoor and sex had not shown yet so I applied some cloning gel to the inside, just a thin layer, and then used an ACE bandage to strap it back on. It ended up healing all the way through in less than a week, but then the injured spot got a fungal infection after I removed the ACE. I scrubbed it with anti-bacterial soap and a tooth-brush because I still pretty new at the whole thing (it was bad seed from a friends bag), but It totally healed up and was by far the largest plant I grew that year... regardless of the fact that all the stress turned it into a male. It actually was strong for a male tho, I made something like 15-20 (it was awhile ago and my memory isnt that sharp) grams of hash and had a several good batches of brownies out of the pounds of leftovers that male became. I never got over the fact that I got that much thc from a male, i wish i would have known more, i would have saved a good female and pollinated... I was still in high school and I didnt know shit compared to now.
-Back on topic, the rooting gel helped with the healing, I think. without it I wouldnt have had that nice hash ball or any delicious snacks


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## marijuanajoe1982 (May 30, 2008)

It's a great idea just to use it as a "booster shot" for your plants while they are young. Does this league allow performance enhancing drugs???


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## jimmyspaz (May 31, 2008)

marijuanajoe1982 said:


> It's a great idea just to use it as a "booster shot" for your plants while they are young. Does this league allow performance enhancing drugs???


*We encourage the use of anything that enhances growth!!*


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## diggitydank420 (Jul 23, 2008)

jimmyspaz said:


> *We encourage the use of anything that enhances growth!!*


LOL, reminds me of the old SNL skit "All-Drug Olympics"

Saturday Night Live: Weekend Update: All Drug Olympics - AOL Video


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## stucklikechuck (Jul 24, 2008)

just wondering if there were any updates of sorts?


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## Mr. Maryjane (Jul 28, 2008)

correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the roots and the rest of the plants try to be kinda balanced. and rooting gel encourages root growth. so if I put rooting gel in with the water, it'd make the roots grow, and then the rest of the plant would have a nice boost in growth to even it out, right.


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## furcifer (Jul 29, 2008)

If you want growth of buds, and don't care if it is natural or synthetic then you should look into BAP - 6-Benzylaminopurine. There really isn't much long term data on this synthetic growth hormone for plants though. However it does work and it has been proven that flowers grown with this stuff stay fresher longer.


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

panhead is the moose alive ???????


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## panhead (Jan 5, 2009)

eza82 said:


> panhead is the moose alive ???????


Yes but not in my garden,a friend is growing it still while ive moved on to try other strains.


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

panhead said:


> Yes but not in my garden,a friend is growing it still while ive moved on to try other strains.


What hormone`s are you useing at mo ?? In what order & timeing ? Quantities?
If you dont mind me asking ??

Ive used this thread as ref in: 
HORMONES Vs Co2 - Hormones cheaper potentially yeild same !
Thanx.....


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## panhead (Jan 5, 2009)

eza82 said:


> What hormone`s are you useing at mo ?? In what order & timeing ? Quantities?
> If you dont mind me asking ??
> 
> Ive used this thread as ref in:
> ...


Right now im not using any hormones but i do plan on getting back to using them as soon as the room is cleared out from the dutchmastrers grow.

Ive read part of your hormone thread but it's gonna take me a while to get back up to speed on much of it,you have lots of information there to digest & i havent spent any time on the hormones in months due to other areas of interest.

The hormone i was using was Indole-3 Butaric Acid,i had some excellent results in "the moose" plant but the results were hard to replicate in other plants using different applications & different strengths of the hormone.

Im getting ready to try out KC Brains KC36 so i might try to replicate the results i had with the moose on the new strain.

Btw,i sould add this,as i get better at growing & controling a grow, along with yeilds, it stands to reason that bud growth & yeild would also get better in my grows,it has in all areas except in comparison to the moose grow,ive yet to grow any colas as large & heavy as those buds were.

There is something to the use of hormones,the hard part is going to be to nail down what hormone does what at each interval of the grow,then to figure out the correct amounts & correct application of the hormones so as to not cause other issues within the plant structure.


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

panhead said:


> Right now im not using any hormones but i do plan on getting back to using them as soon as the room is cleared out from the dutchmastrers grow.
> 
> Ive read part of your hormone thread but it's gonna take me a while to get back up to speed on much of it,you have lots of information there to digest & i havent spent any time on the hormones in months due to other areas of interest.
> 
> ...


 
I look forward to your contributions......... and maybey join a little team to test some of these hormones at different times.


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## HOHO (Jan 6, 2009)

pan they took out the pic of Moose and i'm in suspence is there anyway to see? it has to be big if fdd was impressed.
was the smoke as good as the rest of the plants? any drawbacks?


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## panhead (Jan 6, 2009)

HOHO said:


> pan they took out the pic of Moose and i'm in suspence is there anyway to see? it has to be big if fdd was impressed.
> was the smoke as good as the rest of the plants? any drawbacks?


Photobucket dumped a bunch of my pics,i'll have to look around to see if i still have any pics of that plant.

The smoke was perfect.


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## HOHO (Jan 7, 2009)

ok so i got sucked in to this one to...i was on my way out the door to the garden store to pick some up but went back through to make sure i got the right stuff. i was wondering if you could straiten something out for me?i looked at the beginning of the thread and you said that you used root tone and then closer to the end i think you said take root, since i believe these are both products i must ask


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## genfranco (Jan 7, 2009)

panhead said:


> Photobucket dumped a bunch of my pics,i'll have to look around to see if i still have any pics of that plant.
> 
> The smoke was perfect.



hey panhead... what do you think about adding take root to my plants that i just supercropped... They arent in flower yet... do you think it would make her heal quicker and get thicker too?... Did you do any more experiments with this?


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## panhead (Jan 7, 2009)

HOHO said:


> ok so i got sucked in to this one to...i was on my way out the door to the garden store to pick some up but went back through to make sure i got the right stuff. i was wondering if you could straiten something out for me?i looked at the beginning of the thread and you said that you used root tone and then closer to the end i think you said take root, since i believe these are both products i must ask


Good catch & a was mispoken by me early in the thread.

I have grown used to calling every cloning product root tone no matter the product,the product i used was "Shultz Take Root".

Take root is made by the same company as root tone but has a different active ingredient,i know that take root uses indole-3 but i cant recal what active ingredient root tone uses,i do know that the ingredients are different between the two brands though.


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## panhead (Jan 7, 2009)

genfranco said:


> hey panhead... what do you think about adding take root to my plants that i just supercropped... They arent in flower yet... do you think it would make her heal quicker and get thicker too?... Did you do any more experiments with this?


I think adding Take Root will surely do "something" to the plants but what effect i couldnt say for sure,from what we discovered the indole-3 butyric acid is a type of plant hormone that kinda acts like steroids for plants.

I cant remember exact ratios or feeding schedules but i do remember getting mixed results between different plants,im going to have to re read the thread pretty soon to get back up to speed with all of this since its been so long since we stopped messing with the cloning products.

Some details i remember vividly though.

The calyx growth was explosive & when i say explosive i really mean explosive,on a level ive never seen any other plant come close to,every day i'd look at the plant it packed on new calyxs all over the plant,calyxs on top of calyxs daily,it was the coolest shit to watch,its been the only time that ive ever been able to see bud growth on a daily basis,the growth rate of the main cola was obvious it was so fast & the calyxs were so swollen.

I cant remember off hand how long the moose budded for but i do remember she went longer than the rest of the crop,even when the other plants trichomes were mostly honey colored hers were only milky white,while the other plants hairs were turning red all over she was packing on new white hairs daily,it was some strange shit to watch happen.

I also remember others getting deformed plants ,or weird growths on their plants,this is why i say im sure feeding it to the plant will have an effect but i cant say what that effect might be.


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## genfranco (Jan 7, 2009)

panhead said:


> I think adding Take Root will surely do "something" to the plants but what effect i couldnt say for sure,from what we discovered the indole-3 butyric acid is a type of plant hormone that kinda acts like steroids for plants.
> 
> I cant remember exact ratios or feeding schedules but i do remember getting mixed results between different plants,im going to have to re read the thread pretty soon to get back up to speed with all of this since its been so long since we stopped messing with the cloning products.
> 
> ...



No i here ya bro...

But some of those people A... were using different Stuff B, Added it wrong... either directly without diluting on the stem ..... or used similar technique but not that indole-3 ...

It seems to me that you had good success due to the product and how it was administered... My question was ...do you think it was also because you were flowering?... when you say there were diferent results...do you mean other peoples results.. or on your own plants administering 5 tablespoons in 1 gallon?

I did read the whole thread sir..lol...


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## HOHO (Jan 7, 2009)

ok so called everybody in the book and can't find take root but did some research and found root stimulator called Green Light that has the indole-3 as the main ingredient but only at .0004 and the take root is at .1 so much weaker and this has npk in it and is 32 liquid that says makes 18 gallons seeing that you put that big of a dose in your plant i was thinking...3 ozs in one gallon on two in three of my smaller plants,considering that you aplied during flush and i am at 12th day flower now and mabe bump it up every week...weekly injections of indole-3  it even sounds like a steriod.


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## eza82 (Jan 7, 2009)

Full break down on my thread in SIG........ Indole 3= IBB or IBA


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## genfranco (Jan 7, 2009)

eza82 said:


> Full break down on my thread in SIG........ Indole 3= IBB or IBA


awesome ..thansk man!


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## panhead (Jan 7, 2009)

genfranco said:


> It seems to me that you had good success due to the product and how it was administered... My question was ...do you think it was also because you were flowering?... when you say there were diferent results...do you mean other peoples results.. or on your own plants administering 5 tablespoons in 1 gallon?
> 
> I did read the whole thread sir..lol...


Ok,i read this question yesterday & i had to think about it for a while before i had an answer.

Alot happened in those experiments on my end with different plants,i used 2 fully budding females at different intrervals of the bud cycle,i also treated some seedlings as well as some clones,i used different methods as well,some were fed the mixture through the root system while others were treated with a paste mixture applied directly to the stalk.

The moose plant was the only plant where i had 100% success,some of the seedlings grew out to be twisted plants with defects,the ones that i grew all the way out blended right in with the rest of the grow & showed no signs of any added growth.

Going from memory the best delievery method for me seemed to be by making a paste out of the root tone, then disolving the paste in the water to be fed to the plant,this is where i had a 50/50 success ratio & what developed the moose.

On your question im pretty sure that because i was in flowering is a large part of why i had such great success with the moose,no other plants showed the same growth bursts.

Im still looking for pics of the moose,the camera i used was one of the 1st digi cameras & takes floppy discs so i got alot of discs to look through,the only pic i could find so far is the pic that msmcgregor copied from the thread & made my avatar out of.


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## genfranco (Jan 8, 2009)

panhead said:


> Ok,i read this question yesterday & i had to think about it for a while before i had an answer.
> 
> Alot happened in those experiments on my end with different plants,i used 2 fully budding females at different intrervals of the bud cycle,i also treated some seedlings as well as some clones,i used different methods as well,some were fed the mixture through the root system while others were treated with a paste mixture applied directly to the stalk.
> 
> ...


I was thinking that big ol bud was going to be the moose's

Do you recall what week in flowering you gave her the 5 tablespoon bomb?


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## HOHO (Jan 8, 2009)

i gave all the girls names today and took comparison pics.
the first is the five that i gave 3 tablespoons IBA per gallon water,and the stuff i used is in that pic.
i've always assumed that acid is acidic but not this stuff,i first used tap water to make five gallons and it was cloudy and would not ph i used 4 times the amount of ph down in this 5 gal as i do in a 35 gallon can and didn't budge so i got nervous and dumped it out and used RO water and used as much as i usually do for 35 gal and stopped, its at just over 7 think they'll be fine


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## weedyoo (Jan 8, 2009)

fdd2blk said:


> working outside the box.


once you get so far you need things to advance some how.


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## panhead (Jan 8, 2009)

genfranco said:


> I was thinking that big ol bud was going to be the moose's
> 
> Do you recall what week in flowering you gave her the 5 tablespoon bomb?


This is The only pic i have right now of the moose bud,she ended up gaining several more inches in girth & was as long as my arm,the bud ended looking all twisted & gnarly,thats why fdd called it a cave man club,it looked crazy as all hell,the portion of the bud that is in the pic is only the very top portion of the moose bud but the entire bud had that look to it,kinda like calyx's were dripping off the bud with big chunks of calyx everywhere. 

To give you some kind of reference on how big that bastard kept growing to be i used a full sized can of spray paint in this pic below for reference,the paint can sat next to the bud & the buds girth dwarfed the spray paint can,im gonna email msmcgregor & see if she still has the picture before she photoshopped the pic to make my avatar.







Im not 100% positive of what week in flowering i fed her the big blast of hormone but i am positive that it was very early in flowering,im sure there is something to this hormone business,hopefully you guys who resurected this topic can take it to higher levels & have a more controled success rate than we did originally.


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## eza82 (Jan 8, 2009)

This bud is the bench mark I feel for HORMONE feeding........ So I guess we should be back with comparitive photos..........
But once again hats off........

DID YOU USE Co2 ????


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## panhead (Jan 8, 2009)

HOHO said:


> i gave all the girls names today and took comparison pics.
> the first is the five that i gave 3 tablespoons IBA per gallon water,and the stuff i used is in that pic.
> i've always assumed that acid is acidic but not this stuff,i first used tap water to make five gallons and it was cloudy and would not ph i used 4 times the amount of ph down in this 5 gal as i do in a 35 gallon can and didn't budge so i got nervous and dumped it out and used RO water and used as much as i usually do for 35 gal and stopped, its at just over 7 think they'll be fine


I gave up on trying to get a proper ph level,the water would look like powdered milk mix & when i would ph the water it ended up just like your results,it took tons of ph additives to get it right then a few hours later the ph levels were screwed up again.

I think it was twistyman who gave me the solution of what to do about the ph levels,i ended up going out & buying some ph 7 regulator & mixing the water according to the directions for fish tanks printed on the ph regulator bottle & calling it a day.

I had a hell of a time even getting it to mix up in the water,it would float on the water no matter how much i stirred or shook it up,i ended up taking the powder & adding a very small amount of water to it,then making a paste,then i slowly thinned out the paste with small amounts of water & dumped the thinned out paste solution into the water bucket & mixed the shit out of it,that worked pretty well.

Im glad you guys started this hormone stuff again,it was alot of fun for me the last time around,im looking foward to doing it again myself.


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## eza82 (Jan 8, 2009)

PANHEAD : Im glad you guys started this hormone stuff again,it was alot of fun for me the last time around,im looking foward to doing it again myself.


COME PLAY ! - donate a couple to the cause..... NO time like present! We could use your expertise............


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## headbandrocker (Jan 8, 2009)

Very interesting....


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## panhead (Jan 8, 2009)

eza82 said:


> PANHEAD : Im glad you guys started this hormone stuff again,it was alot of fun for me the last time around,im looking foward to doing it again myself.
> 
> 
> COME PLAY ! - donate a couple to the cause..... NO time like present! We could use your expertise............



I want to join in very badly but i dont have the space,that dutchmasters grow took up all the space in my rooms .

This will be my last run with Top44 & Big Bud for a while because my wife says they are not strong enough for her,myself i think both strains are just fine but as her pain levels grow from her MS she needs a heavier hitting buzz,im replacing them with the KC Brains strain KC36,She wants something thats as strong as the Critical Mass that ive been growing for her in another room, hopefully the KC36 is the ticket for her.

Unfortunately i have to wait till i harvest all the dutchmasters plants,then clean & paint the entire room as well as decontaminate all the lighting & ventilation system to get rid of all the pollen, then i can get another grow going with the KC36,i'll be trying to replicate the moose grow with the KC36 grow thats going to be comming up next round.

It sucks,i wanna have fun too


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## eza82 (Jan 8, 2009)

panhead said:


> I want to join in very badly but i dont have the space,that dutchmasters grow took up all the space in my rooms .
> 
> This will be my last run with Top44 & Big Bud for a while because my wife says they are not strong enough for her,myself i think both strains are just fine but as her pain levels grow from her MS she needs a heavier hitting buzz,im replacing them with the KC Brains strain KC36,She wants something thats as strong as the Critical Mass that ive been growing for her in another room, hopefully the KC36 is the ticket for her.
> 
> ...


 
All good..... You guys are coming into summer soon ????? So maybey Tomatoes and chills are good TEST subjects in a outside greenhouse?????????


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## HOHO (Jan 9, 2009)

i found a match on the Take Root 0.1 IBA and will dose Chloe 11 and 12 tomorrow with 1 Tbls each and will keep looking for IAA in the area. whats the highest i should let the ph be? i don't have that ph7 stuff...


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## HOHO (Jan 9, 2009)

i'm also doing an experiment with uvb on half my garden...
and i decided to make there milk tonite so there were no surprises...lil over 7 ph


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## panhead (Jan 9, 2009)

HOHO said:


> i found a match on the Take Root 0.1 IBA and will dose Chloe 11 and 12 tomorrow with 1 Tbls each and will keep looking for IAA in the area. whats the highest i should let the ph be? i don't have that ph7 stuff...


I cant imagine letting it get too much higher than 7.5 at the max.

Wallmart or any pet store like petco sells ph stabilizer 7.0 for around $3.


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## HOHO (Jan 9, 2009)

its a dark green but mixed with milk,its kinda hard to tell for sure i'd say they be ok...i'll prolly call around and see about stabilizer..i'll make sure its not over 7.5......one feeding should be ok a little high..


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## Hydrotech364 (Jan 9, 2009)

I think you gave it a chubby fdd


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## HOHO (Jan 9, 2009)

i went back through and read to make sure that i had my facts straight..there must be some haters in charge of photo dump!!
to get rid of that pic of all pics!! i just dont understand?
the one that u dosed right at harvest,what happened to that? can you remember


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## HOHO (Jan 12, 2009)

i have decided to backout on this experiment...i think we need someone with more experience to take charge of this one,and seeing that panhead has already started this i think we should let it rest until he's ready


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## OneHit (Jan 15, 2009)

Hmm, just heard about the thread. So to summerize, what happens when you put the hormone on?


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## genfranco (Jan 15, 2009)

HOHO said:


> i have decided to backout on this experiment...i think we need someone with more experience to take charge of this one,and seeing that panhead has already started this i think we should let it rest until he's ready


you must be french, right?


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## panhead (Jan 15, 2009)

OneHit said:


> Hmm, just heard about the thread. So to summerize, what happens when you put the hormone on?


Its not that simple,no quick answers to this subject,your going to have to read the thread to get answers,its too complicated to summarize.


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## omnombudsman (Jan 16, 2009)

I just wanted to add that I have done experiments on cuttings with 16,000 ppm IBA; it's weird, they start growing more adventitious roots than I have ever seen. Literally growing roots up the entire length of the stem.


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## panhead (Jan 16, 2009)

omnombudsman said:


> I just wanted to add that I have done experiments on cuttings with 16,000 ppm IBA; it's weird, they start growing more adventitious roots than I have ever seen. Literally growing roots up the entire length of the stem.


How far up the stalk did the roots travel ?

I treated some seedlings back when fdd first started this experiment & i had a few of them where the roots came out of the soil,well not out of the soil really but where the base of the stalk met the soil the stalk had root growth above the soil layer directly on the exposed stalk,very strange to look at.


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## omnombudsman (Jan 17, 2009)

It varies on how "woody" the cutting is, but some had roots up past the 2nd node. I was under the impression that such a high ppm would just kill them.


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## psycosatan (Jan 17, 2009)

fuck the branches id worry about your finger


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## multisonic (Jan 17, 2009)

This thread was VERY interesting to read. I have 5 seedlings that just broke yesterday and about 20 clones and 1 randomly planted sprout that just got it's 2nd set of leaves. Plus a bunch of plants in flower too. I'm tempted to do some weirdo experiments just like you all have done with them ll across the board. I don't think I want to mess with my 2 god mums though. Awesome Read!


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## Kahlouah (Jan 26, 2009)

This thread has got me thinking on some crazy ways to mess with root tech muahah.

Hey Panhead how the moose doing?
i was reading up on some ways to increase ones yield, i read in one of my books by mel thomas that one can trigger Polyploidy, which is a genetic mutation that can create abnormally high yields due to lots of continual defoliation. Its saying that one could also induce polyploidy chemically using colchicine, but its toxic.
maybe you might have triggered something crazy eh eh  or it could have been in the gel yah never know haha. idk just some info i wanted to trow out if anyone was interested.


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## eza82 (Feb 5, 2009)

HOHO, 
Howz thing champ ??? I have been off line for a few weeks moving building all that sorta shit..... 
What are you doing to your ladies dude ?? Ive only caught a bit of it ??? Milk IAA IBA ???
Give us a summary... listing everything you have done with each ??
Are you havin any problems ????
Are you useing the GA3 or BEN-6 ??


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## eza82 (Feb 5, 2009)

IAA & IBA : are both part of the auxin family that promotes cell division and cell expansion.. either lateral or horizontially..... inturn creating roots on contact with 80% pure form if buried and promotes stem and veg in a feed.
In the Agriculture biz they use a HORMONE called NAA... or commonly known by us stoners in a format known as LA FEMME... ive got a thread on it.
This is close to IAA & IBA as in that they all come from the same family AUXINS...
Plants only have a few different types with many sub categories.
I dont think IAA & IBA is effective as feed UNLESS you hit the timing right. Where NAA is proven at the turn between veg and flower.
IAA moves in one direction only&#8212;that is, the movement is polar and, in this case, downward in roots it is acropetal. Wher as NAA is apical dominante or movements are up , used for fruiting etc....
Look up the Gibberellin & Cytokinin family........ these hormones will probably get the results your looking for in radical growth rates etc... as in GA3, ben-6, BRASSINOLIDE, etc

When hormones are naturally created in plants........

*Auxin* would be released when a root or shoot cell finds that it contains more than enough shoot derived nutrients mainly sugar, and all other environmental conditions are favorable for growth. 
*Cytokinin* would be made when cells are bathed in more than enough nutrients of the sort normally provided by the root, mainly water and minerals and all other conditions are favorable for growth. 
Conversely *Gibberellin/Brassinostreroid* would be made when mature cells have less than enough shoot nutrients, i.e. sugar and Oxygen to survive especially if environmental conditions are poor. 
Finally *Ethylene* might be released when mature cells are receiving less than enough nutrients normally received from the roots, mainly minerals and water, to support life at all, thus senescence of the cell is warranted. Again this effect may be accentuated by poor environmental conditions.
,


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## doctorgreeneggsandham (Feb 6, 2009)

eza82 said:


> IAA & IBA : are both part of the auxin family that promotes cell division and cell expansion.. either lateral or horizontially..... inturn creating roots on contact with 80% pure form if buried and promotes stem and veg in a feed.
> In the Agriculture biz they use a HORMONE called NAA... or commonly known by us stoners in a format known as LA FEMME... ive got a thread on it.
> This is close to IAA & IBA as in that they all come from the same family AUXINS...
> Plants only have a few different types with many sub categories.
> ...



I am doing this!!! Actually already did. here is a picture or two. it just hit a light a few mins ago tho so its kinda fucked up. It'll be ok i think tho


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## eza82 (Feb 6, 2009)

doctorgreeneggsandham said:


> I am doing this!!! Actually already did. here is a picture or two. it just hit a light a few mins ago tho so its kinda fucked up. It'll be ok i think tho


What are you useing when and how much? Big intrest of mine ....looks good though...


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## DeweY (Feb 6, 2009)

It Would Be Good It It Swells Up Buds


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## doctorgreeneggsandham (Feb 6, 2009)

Ok I do not know the concnentration but it is Indule-4 I used Half a cup watered into soil. Then I scored the sides of my plant a little and Used an ounce or two mixed with a baby bit of water to make a paste and I painted my little girl.. just to see what happens. It is still growing strong


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## eza82 (Feb 6, 2009)

So that IAA not IBA ???


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## doctorgreeneggsandham (Feb 6, 2009)

no im sorry for any confusion its IBA


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## eza82 (Feb 6, 2009)

*Because of its nature.. IBA & IAA, it travels in a downward path. Hense it creates roots ( to put simply)*

*He is my new EXPERIMENT feed & dose schedual.......... find attached, it list/schedual for a few of the top hormones that are HIGHLY used in the AGRI industry.*
*includes: hormone, PGR`s, Vitimans, Nutes, Micro additives*.......

What do you guys think ????
Everything is either as suggested on lable or proven experiment papers that I have read.


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## ProfessorMembrane (Feb 20, 2009)

I've decided to give this a little try. I have 9 plants on the edge of the garden who are smaller than the others and decided to dose them with IBA.

For those of you wanting to try using IBA in the form of rooting powder, a good tip for use is that this substance mixes with water like flour and corn starch, the solution will come together more efficiently using cold water.

I mixed 1/4 teaspoon into 2 cups of cold water, and gave this to the plants in addition to their normal watering. In mimic of the first individual to use the powder in this thread, i'll just be giving the plants this one large dose. The plants will be coming down within 40 days, so i'll be able to analyze the data soon as well. 3 of the 9 were left undosed as a control.


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## eza82 (Feb 20, 2009)

ProfessorMembrane said:


> I've decided to give this a little try. I have 9 plants on the edge of the garden who are smaller than the others and decided to dose them with IBA.
> 
> For those of you wanting to try using IBA in the form of rooting powder, a good tip for use is that this substance mixes with water like flour and corn starch, the solution will come together more efficiently using cold water.
> 
> I mixed 1/4 teaspoon into 2 cups of cold water, and gave this to the plants in addition to their normal watering. In mimic of the first individual to use the powder in this thread, i'll just be giving the plants this one large dose. The plants will be coming down within 40 days, so i'll be able to analyze the data soon as well. 3 of the 9 were left undosed as a control.



Somebody is actually going to do this proerly.....
Try Multicorp - Plant starter.. 2 active chems` = IAA & NAA should be the perfect mix at 3-4 weeks to help with both root growth and FEMALES..


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## doctorgreeneggsandham (Feb 22, 2009)

I had to scrap my expiramental plant for more space  it wasnt doing too well anyways. it stopped growing entirely. then again i painted rooting powder on the whole thing. When i pulled it it had insane roots tho. the entire container was all root. So i think it concentrated all the growth on the roots. 

good luck anyone else who tries. I hope for a break thru.

keep it up ~drgreen


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## eza82 (Feb 22, 2009)

Niether will induce foila growth - these creat Auxin which ONLY TRAVEL SOUTH... so it would only develop roots until you changed feed schedual.....


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## The Kush Guy (Feb 27, 2009)

I ran across this thread and wanted to say well done, great information here, nothing definitive yet but for anyone that likes to experiment, like I do, this is a great avenue to play around with.

So I have thrown my hat/plants into the ring and started some testing with IBA and will post as I have information you all might find interesting.

First test was to dissolve 10mg of 0.6 IBA in water and feed it to my one of my Kush mothers in soil. This strain of Kush is very potent, very tasty but is very, very difficult to clone (4 weeks to start seeing roots, 6+ weeks before planting in dirt), so I was hoping to up the rooting capabilities of one of my mothers with an IBA dose. So far not so good, I have posted the initial picture before watering and a picture 11 hours later, lots of drooping going on. So I have flushed her with some water hoping to lessen the effects of the IBA, apparently my dose was too large. We'll see how she does to recover and if she recovers sufficiently, we'll see how her clones do at rooting. (Pictures posted backwards, this mornings is first and last nights is second.)

The other picture included here are some clones I am trying to root in a misting cloner I built. I have an ultrasonic fog generator that is humidifying the clones, there are also some clones in there that I recently extracted from rockwool, those are 4-5 weeks old and have some roots already. All of these clones have been generously dipped in IBA rooting gel to see what will happen. I should mention that I am using Technaflora Root Tech, the only ingredient listed on the jar is IBA 0.6%.

I'm basically trying anything and everything I can to find a better way to root this hard to root strain.

I've have very limited success rooting in rockwool, low relative humidity makes keeping the humidity up and the temperature down very difficult so I am trying other avenues, bubble cloner, misting cloner, jiffy pellets and my hormone experiments.

Much respect to everyone in this thread that came before me and inspired these experiments.

TKG


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## mokino (Mar 2, 2009)

im now starting seedlings and im going to feed it with my powder cloning hormone mixed with water and im comparing it with an other seedling that sprouted at the same time


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## xum (Mar 29, 2010)

1 gallon of water boiled with 1 cup of alfalfa.
2 tsp of tiger bloom
1 tsp of schultz take root IBA powder
enough vinegar to bring the solution down to 5.5ph
Total PPM is 1390.

Let's see if these plants die or thrive!


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## ledtekk (Oct 26, 2010)

I got though about 10 pages of this before i decide to add something. Not sure if it has been hit up about alot of the rooting compounds are using Naphthyl acetic acid in the range of .2%. Some along side Thiram which is toxic to people but when used for orginal urpose of rooting poses no problem. You although can get your NAA from another source which may have been overlooked Superthrive.


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## Krytical (Oct 27, 2010)

One thought, adding rooting gel or whatever to a topping or FIMing point?


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## KushXOJ (Oct 28, 2010)

i didnt read every post on here and i dont know if somebody already asked this ......but i was what is you bend a branch and cut the ends like you were cloning them and put the gel on them but then put the branch in the dirt while its still connected to the plant ...so you get two seprate root systems ...do you think this would increase yield of plant seeing as the plant would be able to bring up more nutrients ??Im high and this was just a thought ...


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## fdd2blk (Oct 28, 2010)

KushXOJ said:


> i didnt read every post on here and i dont know if somebody already asked this ......but i was what is you bend a branch and cut the ends like you were cloning them and put the gel on them but then put the branch in the dirt while its still connected to the plant ...so you get two seprate root systems ...do you think this would increase yield of plant seeing as the plant would be able to bring up more nutrients ??Im high and this was just a thought ...


it is much more efficient to simply take a clone and root it alone.


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## KushXOJ (Oct 28, 2010)

Way to rain on my parade fdd i felt like a genius for about 2 minutes lol but yea you're rite what i said would just be a waste of time but itll be cool to try it tho


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## jfa916 (Oct 28, 2010)

where you get the gel from and how much was it im intersted


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## KushXOJ (Oct 28, 2010)

well i live in cali so i just go to one of the MANY hydroponic stores in my area ...Im sure you can get them on the internet if no stores in your area sells it


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## 9867mike777 (Oct 28, 2010)

jfa916 said:


> where you get the gel from and how much was it im intersted


 I think you can get 100ML of Clonex rooting gel for around $20 on Ebay. You can also get 15ML packet for around $6 on Ebay.


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## 9867mike777 (Oct 28, 2010)

Quick question about the gel. If you stick the stem directly in your bottle of rooting gel, will this introduce contaminants into the container and destroy the gel? I know they tell you to put a little bit in a separate little container, but it would be so much easier just to dip it in the jar. I think I already know that this is not something you should do, but I'm curious.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 28, 2010)

9867mike777 said:


> Quick question about the gel. If you stick the stem directly in your bottle of rooting gel, will this introduce contaminants into the container and destroy the gel? I know they tell you to put a little bit in a separate little container, but it would be so much easier just to dip it in the jar. I think I already know that this is not something you should do, but I'm curious.


i always stick mine right into the jar.


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## 9867mike777 (Oct 28, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> i always stick mine right into the jar.


 I just saw a guide and the picture in that guide showed him sticking it right in the jar. So it sounds like the get doesn't get contaminated.


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## bird mcbride (Oct 28, 2010)

Everyone that I know has confirmed that the rooting powder works far better than the gels. I use a #2 powdered rooting agent for semi-hardwood. The stuff I've always gotten from the hydro shop was/is yellow.


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## 9867mike777 (Oct 28, 2010)

bird mcbride said:


> Everyone that I know has confirmed that the rooting powder works far better than the gels. I use a #2 powdered rooting agent for semi-hardwood. The stuff I've always gotten from the hydro shop was/is yellow.


 What about using both. The gel would hold the powder really nice if you sprinkled some on the stem after dipping. Is it possible to use too much of either the gel or rooting powder.


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## bird mcbride (Oct 28, 2010)

9867mike777 said:


> What about using both. The gel would hold the powder really nice if you sprinkled some on the stem after dipping. Is it possible to use too much of either the gel or rooting powder.


After dipping "ping" off excess rooting agents. Unless you're a real pro, wear gloves. Do not touch the rooting area with your fingers. The salt etc. from your fingers will stop the plant from rooting.


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## Shangeet (Jan 28, 2011)

rooting powder vs. rooting gel

I need some infomation on how big the difference is in the strike rate of clones and what mediums would be best to use for both of the rooting hormones. Does anyone have any advice on this?


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## roseypeach (Mar 25, 2012)

woah baby! that is awesome! Now I've got to get me some cloning gel. What brand are you using?


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## zo0t (Mar 26, 2012)

omg ! ima rub it on all da plant ! can i rub it on me cock ?


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## jjburnout (Mar 26, 2012)

I just did a side by side with gel and powder... Only difference was the gel from the hydro shop was 30.00 and the powder from Wally world was 3.00 ..... Didn't see any difference in rooting times at all. Same strain, same tray.


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## panhead (Mar 31, 2012)

Wow this threads still alive after all these years !

Anyhow an update of my experiences using Indole 3 Butyric acid,i did many tests using different numbers of plants & i allways used control plants that were not fed any hormones,i spent nearly 2 years trying to perfect a delievery method that would produce reliable results.

Those who have read the entire thread would have seen i was getting results of massive cola growth,the bud in my avatar that Dr Frankenstien is looking at & screaming " its alive " is the main cola nicknamed the moose from 1st plant i experimented with,i cant remember exact weights but dry weight was over 2 ounces for that cola,no other cola from any of the other plants came close to her dry weight.

Over the years since the start of this thread ive tried many different approaches as well as both powders & gel's,getting powders to permenantly disolve in water is impossible,no matter how well its mixed the bulk of the powder will seperate & lay at the bottom of the container,after discovering that i focused on gel that contained Indole 3 to feed the plants.

I fed soil plants as well as flood & drain hydro plants,both showed promise but neither gave reliable or steady results,my method that showed the most promis was not from standard root feediungs but from injecting the hormone directly into the stalk of the plant via 10 gauge hypodermic needle .

In the end there were way too many variables for a lone grower to overcome,in order to get explosive cola growth extremely heavy doses are needed,just a pinch too much & the plants would rott in half at the point where the hormone was injected into the stalks,a bit too little & no results or i would get slowed growth or mutated buds,exactly when to dose the plants is another huge variable i couldnt nail down.

When testing using a strain proven to finish in 10 weeks my best results came when injecting the solution into the stalk in weeks 6 & 7,the solution was a 60/40 ratio using distiled water at 60% & clone gel at 40%,the dose was 5 cc's injected in the stalk with the act of pushing the plunger being as slow as possible,approx 5 minutes per injection.

The best result i ever got was when several plants nearly trippled overall yeild compared to untreated plants,that was in a flood & drain hydro grow using full plants not my usual sog style,the best results in soil plants was the origional test allready covered early in this thread.

My findings proved to me beyond a doubt that there is something here with hormones but nailing it down to produce reliable results is going to take a lab full of researchers,there are way too many variables for the layman to overcome.

Best of luck to all who follow this path as its a whole lot of fun conducting the experiments,if my time wasnt so consumed taking care of my wife while her disease slowly takes her life i would really enjoy picking up where i left off but for the forseeable future im not going to have the opportunity.

Good luck guys.


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## stickyfingers1977 (Jul 22, 2013)

The more roots your plant developes the more nutes it can take in hence bigger stems bigger flowers,buds some people add nutes that kill off old root mass and reproduce new root mass it helps to grow bigger plants


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## NugNinja (Jul 22, 2013)

wow great read and great work by all of you. I got a plant flowering right now and I am going to give this a try. Don't know if I'll go buy a needle to inject it but for sure going to mix some in my water.


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## nova1992 (Jul 31, 2013)

im sorry to hear about your wife panhead 
you have inspired many people with your thread here and will continue to do so as long as its here 
i have stim-root powder with the iba hormone and you have inspired me to do experiments of my own 
thanks!!


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