# What's the best 1000w hps bulb money can buy



## Chrissa (Jan 23, 2015)

Let's start a good discussion I wanna hear everyone's views what is the best hps 1000 watt money can buy


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## drolove (Jan 23, 2015)

hortilux. i hear genesis bulbs are good too but they are fairly new and i havent seen enough from them yet.


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## mcmuntech (Jan 24, 2015)

welp....that was a quick discussion....


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## Chrissa (Jan 24, 2015)

lol damn im not very good with diccussion was kinda hoping somebody else wud emphasize on this what about philps agrolite heard good things


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## BigTexan (Jan 24, 2015)

hortilux is the best. hortilux super blues are best for vegging.


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## gmanguy (Jan 24, 2015)

are you guy referring to the Eye hortilux? Thats what I've always used they are tried and tested good bulbs. Get mine on ebay for $66 shipped from a good guy in FL with a shop will beat anyones prices.


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## NW_Grower (Jan 24, 2015)

drolove said:


> hortilux. i hear genesis bulbs are good too but they are fairly new and i havent seen enough from them yet.


Yup. First response.

I haven't used Genesis bulbs yet, but I do use the Genesis ballast and it is awesome! No other ballast compares.


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## itsmehigh (Jan 24, 2015)

Gavita double ended, hands down......the highest par and efficiency on the market right now. Pared up with their controler = win, win. Dare I say up to 3lbs per fixture, what?! 

Itsme.


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## BigTexan (Jan 24, 2015)

itsmehigh said:


> Gavita double ended, hands down......the highest par and efficiency on the market right now. Pared up with their controler = win, win. Dare I say up to 3lbs per fixture, what?!
> 
> Itsme.


You can do it with just the soil too bro. wink wink. supah soil ftw!


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## TheChemist77 (Jan 24, 2015)

best bulb? in my opinion the best bulb maybe hortilux , however you can buy 3 plantmax bulbs at the price of 1 hort..i use the plantmax, used hortilux before and yes yields were a bit higher but not enough to support the cost/eficiency.. u still need to replace them once a year wile plantmax i replace every 8 months and yields are still great..ive also had good results w/ the i power bulb..so my opinion not the best bulbs but most affordable bulbs are best!


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## 209 Cali closet grower (Jan 24, 2015)

Hortlux. Ran cheap bulbs and the hortlux always lasted longer. I don't Chang light bulb s every 1 or 2 runs
I run them for a h
Year or so.


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## MaineWeed (Jan 24, 2015)

I do a bulb change every 3rd grow ... I have in the past had super luck with "Digilux" bulbs but I got tired of spending so much on bulbs so I started to experiment and after a few years of trying various bulbs and seeing such a minimal final weight gain I now just use whatever I can get the cheapest off of ebay as long as they are a digital type bulb.

On another note and this is my .02 worth ...
A lot of guys are talking about "Gavita" double enders and yes they are all that as I too have seen first hand some serious yields lately on fellow growers crops but I can't say as the math would work out to make it worth while to change over ... ballast, bulb and different cooling setup for the room seeing as how they are not a hood cooled package. The coin adds up fast as you all know. I guess if I was just starting out I'd give them a whirl.


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## drolove (Jan 24, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> best bulb? in my opinion the best bulb maybe hortilux , however you can buy 3 plantmax bulbs at the price of 1 hort..i use the plantmax, used hortilux before and yes yields were a bit higher but not enough to support the cost/eficiency.. u still need to replace them once a year wile plantmax i replace every 8 months and yields are still great..*ive also had good results w/ the i power bulb*..so my opinion not the best bulbs but most affordable bulbs are best!


lolol ive actually had some damn good results with the i power bulbs too! i actually thought about buying some more of those bulbs to give them a try again.


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## BShillington (Jan 24, 2015)

If you're just starting out, absolutely the double ended bulbs. You actually don't have to use their ballasts - most high frequency ballasts will support DE bulbs.

You can compare the umol/s of various HPS bulbs here as an example.

http://www.ushio.com/HiLuxGRO/

The high end DE blow regular HPS's out of the water.

From what I've read, you can use the old Lumatek sealed ballasts, Galaxy Select-a-watts, and Gavita Pros. However, based on the fact that the old Lumatek's work and most e-ballasts are based on the same technology/manufacturers based out of China, I suspect almost all e-ballasts with high frequency will operate these bulbs.

The only expense to switch is the reflector hoods and you can get a SunDyn off eBay for ~165, 220s? if you include the regular DE bulb but I'd get the HiLux Gro for ~200 more umol/s (PAR) for ~20$ more. You end up saving much more money in not having to change the bulbs and electricity efficiency.


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## marquezmurder (Jan 24, 2015)

I have been using plantmax bulbs because they are cheap and deliver the spectrum of light I want, also they are not as hot as some bulbs. The reason I stopped here was because I was just talking to my local grow store guy about bulbs about an hour ago so I had to post. I also am fond of hortilux, just not fond of spending money ;D


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## TheChemist77 (Jan 25, 2015)

marquezmurder said:


> I have been using plantmax bulbs because they are cheap and deliver the spectrum of light I want, also they are not as hot as some bulbs. The reason I stopped here was because I was just talking to my local grow store guy about bulbs about an hour ago so I had to post. I also am fond of hortilux, just not fond of spending money ;D



i have a big grow op up here, they use mostly hortilux bulbs, however i noticed in their storage room wile taking a tour they had a pile of phillips hps and mh bulbs, so i asked and was told that after using only hort bulbs the last few years recently they have found that production levels didnt change alot w/ dif bulbs so they now use whatever bulbs they can buy bulk at a lower cost..they said hortilux can be replaced once a year to 14 months, after the switch to lower cost bulbs they replace them every 6 months,save money and produce roughly the same....im w/ that cheaper bulbs replaced more often however i would not recomend the apollo hps it sucks..but there mh is ok, plantmax, phillips,i power, ge, and virtual sun all good bulbs just replace them after 8 months


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## ghb (Jan 25, 2015)

the best bulb is the one that works  anyone ever pay top money and have a bulb fail?

i have never paid more than 30 bucks for a bulb and i've never had one let me down. i replace every 2-3 cycles if i can.

that said, i would love to try one of those fancy gavita lights. i could grow trees under those things with a 10ft ceiling


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## watertheweed (Jan 25, 2015)

marquezmurder said:


> I have been using plantmax bulbs because they are cheap and deliver the spectrum of light I want, also they are not as hot as some bulbs. The reason I stopped here was because I was just talking to my local grow store guy about bulbs about an hour ago so I had to post. I also am fond of hortilux, just not fond of spending money ;D


I use plantmax as well but was wondering if anyone ever heard of Athalon HPS 1000 watts? They have the same Kelvin Temp 2100 and Lumens 140000 as Hortilux. Just wondering if it's something else I should be looking for when purchasing HPS lights?


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## Big dog11 (Jan 25, 2015)

Screw in Hortilux....best overall the Philips DE 400 volt

I'll never buy another 1000 watt screw in bulb.....I cool my room so they're perfect for me


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## marquezmurder (Jan 26, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> i have a big grow op up here, they use mostly hortilux bulbs, however i noticed in their storage room wile taking a tour they had a pile of phillips hps and mh bulbs, so i asked and was told that after using only hort bulbs the last few years recently they have found that production levels didnt change alot w/ dif bulbs so they now use whatever bulbs they can buy bulk at a lower cost..they said hortilux can be replaced once a year to 14 months, after the switch to lower cost bulbs they replace them every 6 months,save money and produce roughly the same....im w/ that cheaper bulbs replaced more often however i would not recomend the apollo hps it sucks..but there mh is ok, plantmax, phillips,i power, ge, and virtual sun all good bulbs just replace them after 8 months


 Apollos free bulbs you get with equipment are horrible your right.


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## marquezmurder (Jan 26, 2015)

watertheweed said:


> I use plantmax as well but was wondering if anyone ever heard of Athalon HPS 1000 watts? They have the same Kelvin Temp 2100 and Lumens 140000 as Hortilux. Just wondering if it's something else I should be looking for when purchasing HPS lights?


I always look at the light spectrum chart for each bulb, I like blue in my hps. Nice looking up the kelvin though.


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## jijiandfarmgang (Jan 26, 2015)

*Advanced Nutrients BaddAss HPS Bulb - 1000 Watt*

It's the best, their website told me so.

- Jiji


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## BShillington (Jan 26, 2015)

http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/oem/hid-systems/high-pressure-sodium/horti/928196305116_EU/product

For you guys who are changing bulbs every 2-3 cycles, keep in mind the DE bulbs lose ~1% efficiency every 2000 hours. Regular HPS's typically burn out at 2-3x that rate. That should be enough life to last 4-6 grows at least.

As for the various rebranded bulbs like Advanced Nutrients, they're just a generic import with a logo slapped onto it. Unless they have their own factory which is highly unlikely, they probably just import a standard HPS from a large manufacturer like Phillips or worse some generic OEM from China and sell it as their own with a markup.


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## anzohaze (Jan 26, 2015)

My old eye horti bulbs dont work with digital ballast for me. I have done blown 3 of them within the 1st 3 weeks of use. I run digilux at moment with out problems


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## Cowboy Kahlil (Jan 27, 2015)

Is this the Gav one you refer to?

http://growershouse.com/gavita-pro-1000-de-complete-fixture


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## jijiandfarmgang (Jan 27, 2015)

BShillington said:


> http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/oem/hid-systems/high-pressure-sodium/horti/928196305116_EU/product
> 
> For you guys who are changing bulbs every 2-3 cycles, keep in mind the DE bulbs lose ~1% efficiency every 2000 hours. Regular HPS's typically burn out at 2-3x that rate. That should be enough life to last 4-6 grows at least.
> 
> As for the various rebranded bulbs like Advanced Nutrients, they're just a generic import with a logo slapped onto it. Unless they have their own factory which is highly unlikely, they probably just import a standard HPS from a large manufacturer like Phillips or worse some generic OEM from China and sell it as their own with a markup.


It was a joke. I've been rocking DE 1000's since before they were cool.

- Jiji


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## BShillington (Jan 27, 2015)

Cowboy Kahlil said:


> Is this the Gav one you refer to?
> 
> http://growershouse.com/gavita-pro-1000-de-complete-fixture


That's a complete double ended fixture, yeah. You can get a remote ballast and bigger/air cooled reflector to keep the heat down though. You can get a DE compatible ballast on alibaba.com for ~130 shipped. A Thunder Sundyn runs ~165 and a bulb for ~110? Comes out even cheaper than the Gavita. I think as long as the ballast operating frequency is >80kHZ it can run a DE bulb.


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## Cowboy Kahlil (Jan 27, 2015)

BShillington said:


> That's a complete double ended fixture, yeah. You can get a remote ballast and bigger/air cooled reflector to keep the heat down though. You can get a DE compatible ballast on alibaba.com for ~130 shipped. A Thunder Sundyn runs ~165 and a bulb for ~110? Comes out even cheaper than the Gavita. I think as long as the ballast operating frequency is >80kHZ it can run a DE bulb.


Thx. I'm not at all ballast-savvy. I saw a video pitch for a Powerbox ballast that impressed. Do most make a lot of noise or add heat? I may not always be able to afford high end but if they're safer/better/long-lasting, sometimes paying more just makes sense.

So what ballasts are considered, say, top three? Are some truly standouts?


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## BShillington (Jan 27, 2015)

Cowboy Kahlil said:


> Thx. I'm not at all ballast-savvy. I saw a video pitch for a Powerbox ballast that impressed. Do most make a lot of noise or add heat? I may not always be able to afford high end but if they're safer/better/long-lasting, sometimes paying more just makes sense.
> 
> So what ballasts are considered, say, top three? Are some truly standouts?


I'm going to paste a portion of an older post of mine.



> Alibaba.com is where resellers go to buy stock (Solis-tek, Galaxy, Lumatek, Apollo, pretty much every major ballast brand is just rebranding Chinese made ballasts) in the hundreds/thousands to be shipped by ship in cargo containers. However, you can request a "sample" of a few ballasts which I'm in the process of doing and they'll sell it a few dollars above bulk pricing by DHL overseas. Shipping is quite expensive but still cheaper than buying rebranded shit for double the price in markup. The FOB (bulk price sent to a ship) price for these ballasts typically range from 60-105$, and then they get marked up to $100-300.
> 
> Solis-tek is actually just a front owned by a Chinese manufacturer for example and outside of NA their ballasts sell for $95 for 1000W under the Helius brand compared to ~200-300 over here under the name Solis-tek brand. Galaxy also sources some of their ballasts from the same company Solis-tek operates from - namely Jayo Technology.
> 
> http://tinajayotech.en.ec21.com/1000W_Electronic_Ballast--9223328_9223329.html


The only ballasts that actually stood out to me are the Gavita ones - they seem to be more efficient than the rest by 1-4 percent which adds up over time. That's 10-40 watts of efficiency which can mean hundreds of dollars of electricity savings over years if you're paying 30 cents a kWh in some places like Cali.

Gavita aside, most if not all the other ballasts appear to be simply Chinese imports with a reseller logo/brand slapped on. Go browse alibaba and see it for yourself.

A regular 1kW e-ballast should run you ~$50-60 FOB. The shipping is what kills - if you're buying "samples" they'll ship by DHL which is like $30 a ballast. You'll still get a better deal for DE ballasts though, since all the importers jack up the prices to ~$200. I'm getting a couple DE ballasts shipped to me for $130.


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## Cowboy Kahlil (Jan 27, 2015)

Pretty impressive savings.


BShillington said:


> I'm going to paste a portion of an older post of mine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pretty impressive savings. You sure Gavita isn't made in China, too? Are a lot of other equipment supplies cheaper with Alibaba, too? (Every buck saved is a big deal for me right now)


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## BShillington (Jan 27, 2015)

Cowboy Kahlil said:


> Pretty impressive savings.
> 
> 
> Pretty impressive savings. You sure Gavita isn't made in China, too? Are a lot of other equipment supplies cheaper with Alibaba, too? (Every buck saved is a big deal for me right now)


I think the newer Gavita lines are actually made in China but I couldn't find a source for their remote ballasts. I know the first units were built in Holland but word is they've changed.

Ultimately it's the electronics inside that counts and I haven't found anyone that's as efficient as they are, at least that's what they advertise.


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## rob333 (Jan 27, 2015)

Chrissa said:


> Let's start a good discussion I wanna hear everyone's views what is the best hps 1000 watt money can buy


u want the best of the best well here from top being the best at our shop to the cheapest 

Hortilux Eye
Ushio
Digilux
Followed by 
Maxlume
Badass
Solistek
Lumatek
Growlite


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## bluerock (Jan 28, 2015)

The Philips Agrolite XT was designed for magnetic ballasts, not sure if it will run on all electronic ballasts. Other than that, Philips is a rock solid brand.

I am currently using the Hortilux HPS on an Xtrasun Dial-a Watt, no complaints. After a year of use, it does not appear to have deteriorated much, I see no need to replace it yet.

Funny thing about Gavita: their Digistar ballast is recommended to be used with a Gavita bulb. Somebody find me a 1000w Gavita SE bulb in the USA; I can't find one for sale anywhere. I don't buy from companies that have distribution problems if I can at all avoid it.

The DE bulbs have some advantages but the reflectors are limited selection and usually expensive. Far as I can tell, they come in one size: 1000 watt. I like to be able to swap ballasts and bulbs around depending on conditions. Furthermore, the lumen maintenance of SE bulbs is perhaps a lot better than it used to be due to electronic ballasts of increasingly high frequencies.

The growerhouse site has a test that purportedly tests SE vs. DE. But if you look at the numbers and then look at the reflector designs, what they are really testing is reflectors. A reflector designed to concentrate light in a small area is going to produce higher numbers. Reflector choice is at least as important as choice of bulb.


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## BShillington (Jan 28, 2015)

bluerock said:


> The Philips Agrolite XT was designed for magnetic ballasts, not sure if it will run on all electronic ballasts. Other than that, Philips is a rock solid brand.
> 
> I am currently using the Hortilux HPS on an Xtrasun Dial-a Watt, no complaints. After a year of use, it does not appear to have deteriorated much, I see no need to replace it yet.
> 
> ...


Gavita actually has a 600/750W bulb now with it's own fixture. Can't find a corresponding remote ballast for it though, outside of Gavita's own line which is rather pricey.

As for the DE bulbs, yeah the reflector selection isn't really there but I like what I'm seeing with the Thunder Sundyn. Seems like either an import of the AC/DE or a copy. I'm guessing an import from the same supplier given how it looks exactly the same. That and a generic import ballast for ~130 brings the price pretty similar to a med/high end regular HPS set.

Growerhouse's review seems pretty nice but I'd rather trust independent data like the ones on ICMAG and data from large corporations who are actually afraid of getting sued for false advertising i.e. Phillips. 2100 umol/s vs ~1800 for HPS is a pretty big upgrade when electricity costs are so damn high. That and the longer life makes DE a no brainer for me.

The Grener's (iirc) ballast review is highly questionable due to the fact that they didn't take wattage measurements into account. Solis-tek after a bit of digging is actually just another Chinese import (alibaba as Jayo Technology) and their driver efficiency is 93% - so 70 watt loss to ballast meaning they were draining more energy to make more light.


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## bluerock (Jan 28, 2015)

BShillington said:


> Gavita actually has a 600/750W bulb now with it's own fixture...
> 
> ...Growerhouse's review seems pretty nice but I'd rather trust independent data like the ones on ICMAG and data from large corporations who are actually afraid of getting sued for false advertising i.e. Phillips. 2100 umol/s vs ~1800 for HPS....


Again, Gavita sells the Digistar and recs their own 1000 watt SE bulb. You can buy the ballast, but you can't buy the bulb as it is not available in the US. That's fucked in my view.

I would characterize the growerhouse data as more of a test than a review although it is sloppy in that the PDF does not list instrumentation used, cite data sources, etc. like a proper scientific paper would. Still, I have no reason to doubt their results. The results indicate that if you want concentrated light, get a reflector designed to accomplish that goal, regardless of whether you are using SE or DE systems.


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## ODanksta (Jan 28, 2015)

I'm using nanolux's with cheap plant max bulbs and killin it. Check out my signature


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## Cowboy Kahlil (Jan 28, 2015)

BShillington said:


> Gavita actually has a 600/750W bulb now with it's own fixture. Can't find a corresponding remote ballast for it though, outside of Gavita's own line which is rather pricey.
> 
> As for the DE bulbs, yeah the reflector selection isn't really there but I like what I'm seeing with the Thunder Sundyn. Seems like either an import of the AC/DE or a copy. I'm guessing an import from the same supplier given how it looks exactly the same. That and a generic import ballast for ~130 brings the price pretty similar to a med/high end regular HPS set.
> 
> ...


You mean this? http://growlightking.com/collections/black-grow-sale/products/thunder-sundyn-dual-lamp-reflector


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## Cowboy Kahlil (Jan 28, 2015)

Not sure if these are the Gavita bulbs you're looking for.

http://www.urbangardensupply.net/categories/lamps.html


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## BShillington (Jan 28, 2015)

bluerock said:


> Again, Gavita sells the Digistar and recs their own 1000 watt SE bulb. You can buy the ballast, but you can't buy the bulb as it is not available in the US. That's fucked in my view.
> 
> I would characterize the growerhouse data as more of a test than a review although it is sloppy in that the PDF does not list instrumentation used, cite data sources, etc. like a proper scientific paper would. Still, I have no reason to doubt their results. The results indicate that if you want concentrated light, get a reflector designed to accomplish that goal, regardless of whether you are using SE or DE systems.


Cowboy - Yeah that's what I meant. You can also find them on ebay under hydroponicsetc something, they're the cheapest AC/DE type reflector resellers I've found though you might get it even cheaper from alibaba if you buy bulk or if the shipping doesn't kill for a "sample".

bluerock - I'm pretty sure the Digistar's just run regular HPS bulbs, the recommendation is just a recommendation but not a requirement. The SE bulbs are probably just phased out due to lack of demand after their DE bulbs started kicking ass. Also, I believe the 1kW DE Gavita bulbs are just rebranded Phillips Green Power Plus so you can just buy those or the Ushio Pro Plus. All give pretty much the same results.


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## polyarcturus (Jan 28, 2015)

Just throwing some real facts out here for yah guys....

A mag ballast should be able to run DE bulbs no problem.

Any hps with enhanced blues is a good bukb regardless of advertising as "digital" only special bulb that falls out this catagory is cmh and quartz halide (horti lux blue) which can't structurally handle the vibrations of high frequency.

So basically any 20-40$ hps will preform.

I change bulbs every 3 cycles this mathematically puts the loss of of light around 10-15%


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## bluerock (Jan 28, 2015)

polyarcturus said:


> A mag ballast should be able to run DE bulbs no problem.


What makes you think so? Have you tried it? I attempted to run a Plantmax HPS DE bulb with a 2013 Xtrasun Dial-A-Watt 1000w ballast. It flickers pretty much continuously at 1000 watt setting but was apparently stable at the 750 watt dial setting. Based on a conversation with Solis-Tek, it is my understanding that the operating frequency of digital ballasts is inversely proportional to the wattage selected. Not sure if that is a linear relationship, I didn't bother to graph the data.

Since almost all magnetic ballasts are operating at relatively low frequencies, I have no expectation that they would fire a DE bulb, as those are known to require high operating frequencies. I did not expect the Xtrasun to work with the DE bulb, I just tried it anyways. Ballast manufacturers do not generally advertise the operating frequencies of their ballasts.


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## daybreaker (Jan 29, 2015)

MaineWeed said:


> I do a bulb change every 3rd grow ... I have in the past had super luck with "Digilux" bulbs but I got tired of spending so much on bulbs so I started to experiment and after a few years of trying various bulbs and seeing such a minimal final weight gain I now just use whatever I can get the cheapest off of ebay as long as they are a digital type bulb.
> 
> On another note and this is my .02 worth ...
> A lot of guys are talking about "Gavita" double enders and yes they are all that as I too have seen first hand some serious yields lately on fellow growers crops but I can't say as the math would work out to make it worth while to change over ... ballast, bulb and different cooling setup for the room seeing as how they are not a hood cooled package. The coin adds up fast as you all know. I guess if I was just starting out I'd give them a whirl.


whats the difference between a digital bulb and a hortilux?or is hortilux digital.Also,is it necessary to run digital bulb with digital ballast?


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## Sativied (Jan 29, 2015)




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## BShillington (Jan 29, 2015)

Eh are you running DE bulbs on mag ballasts? 

Ushio support says to use high frequency ballasts only and nowhere else have I seen anyone recommend mag ballasts with DE bulbs.


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## jijiandfarmgang (Jan 29, 2015)

bluerock said:


> What makes you think so? Have you tried it? I attempted to run a Plantmax HPS DE bulb with a 2013 Xtrasun Dial-A-Watt 1000w ballast. It flickers pretty much continuously at 1000 watt setting but was apparently stable at the 750 watt dial setting. Based on a conversation with Solis-Tek, it is my understanding that the operating frequency of digital ballasts is inversely proportional to the wattage selected. Not sure if that is a linear relationship, I didn't bother to graph the data.


@whazzup (who I don't think frequents these forums anymore) who worked or works for gavita spoke about this and the relationship is not linear, lower wattage higher frequency. Pretty interesting and even shows some videos of older lower frequency digital ballasts and the effects of resonance.

http://www.greenpassion.org/topic/16601-e-ballast-test-lumatek-vs-bal-vs-leuchtek/

- Jiji


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## TheChemist77 (Jan 29, 2015)

just a question a little off topic, but my ballast has a 110% super setting on a 600 watt hps/mh digital dimmable ballast, will putting it at the super setting efect the life of my bulbs? does that setting really do anygood over powering the bulb? i have an i power ballast w/ i power bulb set at 110%, and my other ballast is a lumpower 600 watt dig dimable w a plantmax 600 watt hps set at 100% and see no diference in light..


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## bluerock (Jan 30, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> just a question a little off topic, but my ballast has a 110% super setting on a 600 watt hps/mh digital dimmable ballast, will putting it at the super setting efect the life of my bulbs? does that setting really do anygood over powering the bulb? i have an i power ballast w/ i power bulb set at 110%, and my other ballast is a lumpower 600 watt dig dimable w a plantmax 600 watt hps set at 100% and see no diference in light..


1. Yes, running at the "110%" setting will shorten the life of the bulb. I'd like to think that this feature was added in order to squeeze every bit of use out of a bulb before tossing it, but now I think it was done as a marketing idea. "This ballast goes to 11".
2. You are going from 600w to 660w. If the ballast is the "soft dim" type, it gradually ups the wattage. Not easy to see, you should check it with a light meter. Those cheapie analog meters from Hydrofarm work great for this.


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## TheChemist77 (Jan 30, 2015)

bluerock said:


> 1. Yes, running at the "110%" setting will shorten the life of the bulb. I'd like to think that this feature was added in order to squeeze every bit of use out of a bulb before tossing it, but now I think it was done as a marketing idea. "This ballast goes to 11".
> 2. You are going from 600w to 660w. If the ballast is the "soft dim" type, it gradually ups the wattage. Not easy to see, you should check it with a light meter. Those cheapie analog meters from Hydrofarm work great for this.


i think mine jumps the intensity quickly. when i turn the nob i can see the light intensify instantly.. guess i should go switch it back to 100% before i screw up my bulbs life..that seems like something companies would do, increase the output of the ballasts so u have to buy bulbs more frequently,,,gooid way to make more money,,but it screws us,,the customers...so what good is the 110% setting? only good for the last month ur useing the bulb??...


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## Mt Doo (Jan 30, 2015)

Apollo is a great bulb.


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## polyarcturus (Jan 31, 2015)

Hortiluxurious is well known for building bulbs optimal for magnetic ballast.
think bout it 

Different manufacturers diff3rent but similar tactics across the board


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## Fease (Jan 31, 2015)

I heard or read that light/penetration of a 600w in regard to the heat it puts it out and how close you can put it is actually superior to a 1000w?


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## polyarcturus (Jan 31, 2015)

Fease said:


> I heard or read that light/penetration of a 600w in regard to the heat it puts it out and how close you can put it is actually superior to a 1000w?


Correct except in the case of vertical positioned bulb.

There is a grey area to every thing.


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## polyarcturus (Jan 31, 2015)

And also to match th3 same area 8n cuft with 600w compared to a 100w so when ur talking 12kw of lighting the 1kw are more efficient. Especially so if vertical or DE​


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## jijiandfarmgang (Jan 31, 2015)

Fease said:


> I heard or read that light/penetration of a 600w in regard to the heat it puts it out and how close you can put it is actually superior to a 1000w?


Not necessarily.

- Jiji


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## jijiandfarmgang (Jan 31, 2015)

polyarcturus said:


> Correct except in the case of vertical positioned bulb.
> 
> There is a grey area to every thing.


What are you even talking about, how would vertical be different.

- Jiji


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## Alexander Supertramp (Jan 31, 2015)

BShillington said:


> If you're just starting out, absolutely the double ended bulbs. You actually don't have to use their ballasts - most high frequency ballasts will support DE bulbs.
> 
> You can compare the umol/s of various HPS bulbs here as an example.
> 
> ...


Yep I run a HiLux/Galaxy combo. Absolutely out performs any single ended combo I have ever tried. And from the reports I have gotten running a bulb 2 years is the norm before having to change. After 3 cycles my bulbs PAR has only diminished about 3%.


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## BShillington (Jan 31, 2015)

I missed the earlier discussion on operating frequency and dimming - I'm including a spec sheet I received from a ballast OEM on alibaba for the curious. TL;DR - Freq increases as you dim.

https://mega.co.nz/#!esZlmQhQ!I_rS3OmSQhm8Y88vOyvoK-L5VQRP1wn-3qAcunIOmfY


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## jcommerce (Jan 31, 2015)

Hortilux Super HPS here. I like having the extra blue in my flower as well.

Interesting to see that EYE is making a line of T5s. I do all if my vegging with ATI T5s in an ATI fixture. They're almost too strong. I learned from reefkeeping that it's safer for your corals to go from T5 to MH rather than the other way around. If you don't ease in T5s, they will burn your corals. Of course the fixture, ballast, and lamps all come into play. ATI is top of the line in the reef world.


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## jimmy slim big (Jan 31, 2015)

20 bucks per bulb replaced every single run .... why would anyone wanna pay that kinda money for a bulb that losses a shit ton of lumens within the first 2 months??? replace every grow with cheap bulbs!!


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## BShillington (Feb 1, 2015)

jimmy slim big said:


> 20 bucks per bulb replaced every single run .... why would anyone wanna pay that kinda money for a bulb that losses a shit ton of lumens within the first 2 months??? replace every grow with cheap bulbs!!


Typically the increased yields from higher quality lamps will more than make up for the cheap bulbs - that and less light deterioration means less bulb changing in the first place.


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## ttystikk (Feb 1, 2015)

NW_Grower said:


> Yup. First response.
> 
> I haven't used Genesis bulbs yet, but I do use the Genesis ballast and it is awesome! No other ballast compares.


Why?


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## BShillington (Feb 1, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Why?


Marketing, perhaps?


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## ttystikk (Feb 1, 2015)

Having read this thread all the way through, I thought I saw people saying that DE bulbs could be fired with standard thousand digital watt ballasts. I was under the impression output voltage was different, making DE bulbs incompatible with SE ballasts. Is this not the case?


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## BShillington (Feb 1, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Having read this thread all the way through, I thought I saw people saying that DE bulbs could be fired with standard thousand digital watt ballasts. I was under the impression output voltage was different, making DE bulbs incompatible with SE ballasts. Is this not the case?


The 600 watt DE's fire at 200v which is higher than standard HPS bulbs but the 1kW DE bulbs, at least the Ushio ones seem to operate at 230v which is similar to regular HPSes. 

From the looks of it all that's required is a high frequency ballast.


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## ttystikk (Feb 1, 2015)

Does anyone know anyone who has actually tried running DE lamps vertically?

I hear it doesn't work but no one I've spoken with can say they personally know anyone who actually tried it.


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## jimmy slim big (Feb 1, 2015)

BShillington said:


> Typically the increased yields from higher quality lamps will more than make up for the cheap bulbs - that and less light deterioration means less bulb changing in the first place.


so ill yield more with a 100$ bulb then a 50$? if so then please explain cause i was told by local grow shop 100 bulbs still need to be changed every run as they lose so much lumens right away... so if your gonna buy new bulbs every 2-3 months why spend that kinda money?? but really im unsure as im still new so if that bulb can almost double my yield then id spend the extra money


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## ttystikk (Feb 1, 2015)

jimmy slim big said:


> so ill yield more with a 100$ bulb then a 50$? if so then please explain cause i was told by local grow shop 100 bulbs still need to be changed every run as they lose so much lumens right away... so if your gonna buy new bulbs every 2-3 months why spend that kinda money?? but really im unsure as im still new so if that bulb can almost double my yield then id spend the extra money


DE tech 1. gives more lumens per watt, 2. Improves spectrum and 3. Lasts drastically longer

I'm investigating how to make them work vertically...


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## Fease (Feb 1, 2015)

Anyone use Agromax or have any statistics on it? I'm kind of regretting not spending 10 more bucks for an EYE. The used EYE I got with ballast and cheapo hood(60$ for all, mwahahaha) works great. I tried google but didn't come up with a whole lot. I'll check the CRI(is that it) though.
edit: and it is 26..


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## jijiandfarmgang (Feb 1, 2015)

jimmy slim big said:


> so ill yield more with a 100$ bulb then a 50$? if so then please explain cause i was told by local grow shop 100 bulbs still need to be changed every run as they lose so much lumens right away... so if your gonna buy new bulbs every 2-3 months why spend that kinda money?? but really im unsure as im still new so if that bulb can almost double my yield then id spend the extra money


Because employees at a grow shop usually aren't capable of a cost-benefit analysis.

- Jiji


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## ttystikk (Feb 1, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> Because employees at a grow shop usually aren't capable of a cost-benefit analysis.
> 
> - Jiji


TRUE STORY. Who works at a grow shop? People who can't figure out how to make their living growing!


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## NW_Grower (Feb 3, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Why?


It's not marketing but you can believe what you like. I just didn't want to rant on ballasts because this is a bulb thread, and I didn't want to hijack it.

1. I really like the sunrise function: it is better on your bulbs and your electrical bill with no loss to your plants growth.

2. They are fully programable with a single remote which has a number of benefits. It takes the timer out of the equation, and I don't know anyone who hasn't had at least a minor timer bump encounter, they suck. So all my ballast are synced. I know other ballast have remotes, but I found them harder to figure out.

3. Even though it has a very nice timer, you can still program it without one, I know it seems like I'm contradicting my last point, but sometimes I can't find the remote. The other programable ballast I've tried are usless without the remote.

4. Other programable ballasts I've used don't have an LED read out displaying the exact wattage, remaining time, etc., so it's easy to see at a glance if everything is on the level.

5. They look cool. Hey, it doesn't hurt...


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## ttystikk (Feb 3, 2015)

@NW_Grower thanks for the info. If it will strike and run a DE lamp I'm very interested.


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## jijiandfarmgang (Feb 3, 2015)

NW_Grower said:


> It's not marketing but you can believe what you like. I just didn't want to rant on ballasts because this is a bulb thread, and I didn't want to hijack it.
> 
> 1. I really like the sunrise function: it is better on your bulbs and your electrical bill with no loss to your plants growth.
> 
> ...


Just for everyone’s info, for the new Gavita E series, all these features and more are covered by a optional separate controller, the EL-1.

- Jiji


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## mr.nice72 (Feb 12, 2015)

Chrissa said:


> Let's start a good discussion I wanna hear everyone's views what is the best hps 1000 watt money can buy


The Hortilux "Eye" Super HPS Enhanced Spectrum light bulb.


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## TheChemist77 (Feb 12, 2015)

i still believe an expensive bulb that lasts a year is no better than 2-3 cheaper bulbs..ive used both and yields were only a few grams in difference..but ive never used the DE bulbs so cant comment on them.. i recently switched my flower room from 2 600 watt hps bulbs to 2 600 watt hps pluss 1 125 watt 6500k cfl wing reflector on side. the added blue spectrum has actually reduced stretch and improved yields by almost 2 oz's..pretty good for adding only 125 watts...


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## IV1200 (Aug 26, 2015)

Cowboy Kahlil said:


> Pretty impressive savings.
> 
> 
> Pretty impressive savings. You sure Gavita isn't made in China, too? Are a lot of other equipment supplies cheaper with Alibaba, too? (Every buck saved is a big deal for me right now)



Gavita is in fact made in China from what I understand. They have recently changed factories from Zhuhai to another factory owned by Fulham Inc.


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## Sativied (Aug 26, 2015)

The original phillips DE bulb of course.


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 26, 2015)

Sativied said:


> The original phillips DE bulb of course.


sativied, just put up new journal if u want to check it out, switched to 315 watt cdl lamps.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/chemist77-315-watt-cdl-grow.880895/


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## ghodges1 (Aug 28, 2015)

hortilux bulbs supply a higher intensity grow spectrum from what I understand ...also from research on practice with them, they seem to be pretty good...amazon has the best price for bulk buying guarantee


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## GrowUrOwnDank (Aug 28, 2015)

I don't know. CFL? So what's the solution to this riddle? I just want the right answers just in case it's on an exam or something.


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## ryan s (Aug 31, 2015)

I'm going to run vertical 600w HPS Sylvania bulbs and vertical Solis Tek 10K 600w MH bulbs in 600w Solis Tek ballasts. Going to be basically be 3 plants with 4 lights around each plant. How good are sylvania bulbs for growing exactly and how are solis tek bulbs/ballasts?


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## The Elvis (Aug 31, 2015)

I'm an auto grower and was using the Apollo bulbs. they seem to make my plants fox tail to much. No heat issues. I changed over to Eye Hortilux little to no fox tails..
I use a HPS/LED combo.. 1550 watts


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## BOBBY_G (Dec 22, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> i still believe an expensive bulb that lasts a year is no better than 2-3 cheaper bulbs..ive used both and yields were only a few grams in difference..but ive never used the DE bulbs so cant comment on them.. i recently switched my flower room from 2 600 watt hps bulbs to 2 600 watt hps pluss 1 125 watt 6500k cfl wing reflector on side. the added blue spectrum has actually reduced stretch and improved yields by almost 2 oz's..pretty good for adding only 125 watts...


you added 125W and it added 56g... so less than 0.5 gpw. unless your 2 HPSs are yielding under 600g total it would be just as worth it to add more HPS


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## SSHZ (Dec 22, 2015)

Amazon sells iPower 1000 watt bulbs for around $28-$30 delivered. They work great with my digital ballasts. I only use them 2-3 crops, never more but they are great bulbs for the price and never a problem with them. Lastly, they seems to be a bit for "heavy-duty"' use, which I like- they can take an occasional bang or bump.


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## swagslayer420 (Dec 22, 2015)

ushio 600w, 1000w hps opti-red and there MH bulbs are good as well.


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## daybreaker (Dec 22, 2015)

The Elvis said:


> I'm an auto grower and was using the Apollo bulbs. they seem to make my plants fox tail to much. No heat issues. I changed over to Eye Hortilux little to no fox tails..
> I use a HPS/LED combo.. 1550 watts


is the combo together or separate lamps?pics?


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## The_Herban_Legend (Dec 22, 2015)

gmanguy said:


> are you guy referring to the Eye hortilux? Thats what I've always used they are tried and tested good bulbs. Get mine on ebay for $66 shipped from a good guy in FL with a shop will beat anyones prices.


That's because he probably uses them for a cycle, first.


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## The Elvis (Dec 23, 2015)

daybreaker said:


> is the combo together or separate lamps?pics?


I use my HID 600 watt Hurtliux bulb open face in between two LED 192x3 reflectors no tent no Mylar..
17 autos in bloom..


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 23, 2015)

BOBBY_G said:


> you added 125W and it added 56g... so less than 0.5 gpw. unless your 2 HPSs are yielding under 600g total it would be just as worth it to add more HPS


that was a wile ago, now im running cmh with great gpw's... i had run 2 600's hps and then 1 hps,1mh, the mix produced better plants but less overall weight but only a ounce difference.. if i went back id do both but im really happy with the cmh lamps now..


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## daybreaker (Dec 25, 2015)

The Elvis said:


> I use my HID 600 watt Hurtliux bulb open face in between two LED 192x3 reflectors no tent no Mylar..
> 17 autos in bloom..
> View attachment 3570448
> 
> View attachment 3570453


ok I was thinking how cool a combo would be.I have a few autos ima try outside this summer.


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## LOFT (Mar 7, 2016)

polyarcturus said:


> Just throwing some real facts out here for yah guys....
> 
> A mag ballast should be able to run DE bulbs no problem.
> 
> ...



I know this post was over a year ago but i have 600 watt lumii ballasts... with a double ender be ok in these?


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## Reggie Mack (Mar 8, 2016)

I believe Ushio and Hortilux bulbs have always tested the highest for par rating and produced lumens. I've been looking at the "NextLighting" leds 525W full spectrum comparable to over a 1k from what I've seen so far...5x5 veg coverage and 3x3 for flower


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## Reggie Mack (Mar 8, 2016)

Looking more towards spectrum and oar output as opposed to lumens


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## BOBBY_G (Mar 8, 2016)

ushio and hortilux as stated 

but ill bet the difference between their best and the cheapo shit is narrowing all the time


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## Reggie Mack (Mar 8, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> ushio and hortilux as stated
> 
> but ill bet the difference between their best and the cheapo shit is narrowing all the time


Def agreed man! These "Light Ener-G" HPS I'm using are definitely comparable for $65-80 less a bulb change . I'm still killin it lol b


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## Reggie Mack (Mar 8, 2016)

Think it's some cheapo Chinese bulb


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## OldGrower (Mar 8, 2016)

growershouse runs a lot of test on equipment, their bulb test here

http://growershouse.com/blog/hid-bulb-test-comparison-review-hortilux-ushio-digilux-baddass-solistek-lumatek-maxlume-growlite-ultra-sun/


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## Reggie Mack (Mar 8, 2016)

OldGrower said:


> growershouse runs a lot of test on equipment, their bulb test here
> 
> http://growershouse.com/blog/hid-bulb-test-comparison-review-hortilux-ushio-digilux-baddass-solistek-lumatek-maxlume-growlite-ultra-sun/


Goin to go take a look now


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## TheChemist77 (Mar 9, 2016)

just switched from HPS to ceramic lighting,, 3 315 watt cdl lamps produce more gram per watt than both a 1k HPS and 2 600 watt HPS .. i think after 20 years of growing hps has finally met its match.. the ceramic agro 3100k bulb lasts 20,000 hours, no bulb changes, produces tighter nodes in both veg and flower and is 35%more efficient than hps lighting... time to get away from hps, save money on electric bills, and produce better,bigger buds than ever..even beginners can easily get 1 gram per watt with ceramics and for those of you more experienced growers 1.5- 1.75 gpw is more realistic within one or 2 runs after learning how your plants respond to the new spectrum..PLEASE DONT GET ME WRONG,, I LOVE MY HPS LAMPS,, they served me well for many many years,,they produce great,stem bending indoor buds.. However the new ceramic lights, i was scepticle,,i thought it would be another waste of money like the money i wasted on led lamps years ago...but to my surprise they work,,,and better than i could have even hoped!!! many big grow ops are now going with ceramics,,simply more efficient and they work...


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## LOFT (Mar 9, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> just switched from HPS to ceramic lighting,, 3 315 watt cdl lamps produce more gram per watt than both a 1k HPS and 2 600 watt HPS .. i think after 20 years of growing hps has finally met its match.. the ceramic agro 3100k bulb lasts 20,000 hours, no bulb changes, produces tighter nodes in both veg and flower and is 35%more efficient than hps lighting... time to get away from hps, save money on electric bills, and produce better,bigger buds than ever..even beginners can easily get 1 gram per watt with ceramics and for those of you more experienced growers 1.5- 1.75 gpw is more realistic within one or 2 runs after learning how your plants respond to the new spectrum..PLEASE DONT GET ME WRONG,, I LOVE MY HPS LAMPS,, they served me well for many many years,,they produce great,stem bending indoor buds.. However the new ceramic lights, i was scepticle,,i thought it would be another waste of money like the money i wasted on led lamps years ago...but to my surprise they work,,,and better than i could have even hoped!!! many big grow ops are now going with ceramics,,simply more efficient and they work...



i dont doubt what your saying
I would like to see pictures and info on ceramic lights if you could as im interested and also a supplier if possible


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## TheChemist77 (Mar 11, 2016)

LOFT said:


> i dont doubt what your saying
> I would like to see pictures and info on ceramic lights if you could as im interested and also a supplier if possible



https://www.rollitup.org/t/chemist77-315-watt-cdl-grow.880895/page-1

please check out my grow,, ive seen a few other people running ceramics here on riu,,but i like side by side comparisons for real undisputable proof...i have the horizontal run boulder lamp 315 lec lamp.. id love to see a comparison on the horizontal 315 and the verticle run sun system or hydro farm 315 cmh lamps...


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## since1991 (May 28, 2016)

IV1200 said:


> Gavita is in fact made in China from what I understand. They have recently changed factories from Zhuhai to another factory owned by Fulham Inc.


This is interesting. The ballast company that has thier ballasts in all the t5's we use. Actually ive found Fullham workhorse ballasts to be iffy at best. At least the t5 ones. Some last forever....some will crap out within a year or less.


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