# List of Things Christianity Has Made Worse



## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

So it seems we.cant get away from the threads that go ,"why do people hate us?" From christians. We tell them, and then they say we are wrong, that our reasons for disliking them are wrong! It seems the fastest way to get christians around you is to tell them to leave you alone. When you tell them that, they say,"why are you forcing your beliefe on me?" So I will start this list...

Reasons we dislike Christians:

They just wont ever leave you alone, nosey bastards.


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## massah (Oct 24, 2011)

They preach to not judge, but do nothing but that...


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## Morgan Lynn (Oct 24, 2011)

I don't dislike Christians until they start telling me what I should believe.


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## DSB65 (Oct 24, 2011)

morgan lynn said:


> i don't dislike christians until they start telling me what i should believe.


your going to hell........lol


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 24, 2011)

kinda like the one massah said but they are the biggest hypocritical bastards ive ever met and they do nothing but judge people and not to mention there music fucking sucks balls!!!! its sad but ive never thought religion would be a fucking "trend" believe what you feel is true not what the mass's of morons tell you


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

DSB65 said:


> your going to hell........lol


There's another one, the assumption that my life is so wrong it will be punished with eternal hell-fire...I'm actually a very good and ethical person


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 24, 2011)

and apperently us buddishts are going to hell too...... the dali lama in hell i highly doubt that..........


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## massah (Oct 24, 2011)

oh and Christianity also stopped the advancement of science...






and I have no idea if this graph is statistically correct, but its funny as fuck


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 24, 2011)

it seems about right considering during the christian Renaissance they did burn anything that went against there believes i.e. science


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## JimmyRecard (Oct 24, 2011)

My problem is there constant I can prove god exists but the moment you get something to disprove it they ignore it as if it doesn't exist.

And the bible, oh dont get me started on the bible. There were a lot of passages on which christians will ignore until someone thought hmm lets just release a new version of the HOLY BOOK that people are supposed to live their lifes by. We can change peoples lifes it's all good.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

skunkpunk13 said:


> and apperently us buddishts are going to hell too...... the dali lama in hell i highly doubt that..........


Hahaha... Yeaaaaah, that dalai lama, hes goin to hell...because he didnt believe in the son of a virgin who was murdered to pay for our sins. Of course it doesnt matter that he is the purest, most in tune and kind person on earth, thats not what god REALLY cares about


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

How about the pedophilia that has historically been sheltered by religious leaders


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## massah (Oct 24, 2011)

JimmyRecard said:


> My problem is there constant I can prove god exists but the moment you get something to disprove it they ignore it as if it doesn't exist.
> 
> And the bible, oh dont get me started on the bible. There were a lot of passages on which christians will ignore until someone thought hmm lets just release a new version of the HOLY BOOK that people are supposed to live their lifes by. We can change peoples lifes it's all good.


Don't forget religion is big business...a business that in recent years is struggling to survive


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## boneheadbob (Oct 24, 2011)

People just want to be them selves. They dont want some magic dude in the sky telling them they should not screw their neighbors wife or have mansex.

That weighs heavy on a fella just struggling to get by.


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## cannabineer (Oct 24, 2011)

skunkpunk13 said:


> and apperently us buddishts are going to hell too...... the dali lama in hell i highly doubt that..........


Aren't we all "Buddists" here!?  cn


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

I dislike the forcing of religious beliefs on others via politics. Most specifically right now-gay marriage and stem cell research. Did you know our original pledge of allegance did not have "under god" after one nation originally? Our moto was e pluribus unum "out of man, one" changed to "in god we trust" money also didnt have "in god we trust" all these were changed in the late 1950s.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

Out of many, one...sorry, typo


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## Dizzle Frost (Oct 24, 2011)

religion is over rated


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## JimmyRecard (Oct 24, 2011)

You know what would be a shorter list? Things that christianity has made better!


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Do you guys know what is hilariously fucking sad? The fact that I see WAY more people bitching about religion then gangs. I mean fuck, there's so many things wrong with people. Religion could just be another one, but I don't see groups of Christians bust out their ak's and fuck each other up. It happens all around us, yet I don't see a thread about gang violence. 

And op, when have you asked a Christian to leave you alone, and they reply by saying "you're pushing your beliefs on me"? 

You only see Christians making treads about being left alone? Well I always see threads of atheists bitching and not doing anything productive. 
Lol fuck off....


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> I dislike the forcing of religious beliefs on others via politics. Most specifically right now-gay marriage and stem cell research. Did you know our original pledge of allegance did not have "under god" after one nation originally? Our moto was e pluribus unum "out of man, one" changed to "in god we trust" money also didnt have "in god we trust" all these were changed in the late 1950s.


 Yeah but you don't have to say the pledge of allegiance. So don't complain about something that you don't have to do....


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## sso (Oct 24, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Hahaha... Yeaaaaah, that dalai lama, hes goin to hell...because he didnt believe in the son of a virgin who was murdered to pay for our sins. Of course it doesnt matter that he is the purest, most in tune and kind person on earth, thats not what god REALLY cares about


"pssst, kill this guy, then everything is going to be allright, he´s my son btw"


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Hahaha... Yeaaaaah, that dalai lama, hes goin to hell...because he didnt believe in the son of a virgin who was murdered to pay for our sins. Of course it doesnt matter that he is the purest, most in tune and kind person on earth, thats not what god REALLY cares about


Can you show me where the bible says atheists go to hell?


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Do you guys know what is hilariously fucking sad? The fact that I see WAY more people bitching about religion then gangs. I mean fuck, there's so many things wrong with people. Religion could just be another one, but I don't see groups of Christians bust out their ak's and fuck each other up. It happens all around us, yet I don't see a thread about gang violence.


Not purposefully trying to start shit but, gangs don't have power in government, or attempt to change federal laws to further their agendas. Everyone already knows gangs are bad, but lots of people don't think about the harm that militant religion does/is doing.

Everyone should be free to practice whatever they want, but when church policy makes its way into public policy something needs to be said or done.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

massah said:


> oh and Christianity also stopped the advancement of science...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Well the scientists shouldn't have been little bitches and fought off the Christians. Jk I'm pretty sure they would lose....
Oh and there's many Christians who have helped the advancement of science.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Can you show me where the bible says atheists go to hell?


Apostacy is the one unforgivable sin, dude...

Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter: but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin. (Mark 3:28-29)

The Holy Spirit isn't real. There, I just committed the one unforgivable sin, and can never go to heaven because I'm an atheist.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Not purposefully trying to start shit but, gangs don't have power in government, or attempt to change federal laws to further their agendas. Everyone already knows gangs are bad, but lots of people don't think about the harm that militant religion does/is doing.
> 
> Everyone should be free to practice whatever they want, but when church policy makes its way into public policy something needs to be said or done.


gangs don't need power in government. Have you ever been around the real gangs? They don't fuck around, they will kill you if you don't listen to them. At least Christians don't do that anymore.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Apostacy is the one unforgivable sin, dude...
> 
> Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter: but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin. (Mark 3:28-29)
> 
> The Holy Spirit isn't real. There, I just committed the one unforgivable sin, and can never go to heaven because I'm an atheist.


Lol dude, that's not blasphemy. You have to have a pure hatred for the holy spirit (which you can't have because you're an atheist) in order to blaspheme the holy spirit.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> gangs don't need power in government. Have you ever been around the real gangs? They don't fuck around, they will kill you if you don't listen to them. At least Christians don't do that anymore.


Gangs don't have shit for power compared to any major Christian sect....

Bloods, Crips, and Mexican Cartel vs. The Vatican.....

I'd take the Vatican any day...lol


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Gangs don't have shit for power compared to any major Christian sect....
> 
> Bloods, Crips, and Mexican Cartel vs. The Vatican.....
> 
> I'd take the Vatican any day...lol


The Mexican cartel will grab you by the hair and chop your head off. Protection wise, I would definitely go with the Mexican cartel....


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Lol dude, that's not blasphemy. You have to have a pure hatred for the holy spirit (which you can't have because you're an atheist) in order to blaspheme the holy spirit.


"What is the unpardonable sin and what constitutes blasphemy? The Greek word translated "blasphemy" is [blasphemeo], and for Biblical purposes may generally be defined as "speaking evil against" or defaming God. Such as vilifying the work of Christ, which the Pharisees were recorded doing in Matthew chapter 12, charging the Lord was an agent of the Devil. "

I do not believe that god exists. If that's not defaming god, I clearly don't know what defame means.

Oh wait!

de·fame (d-fm)
tr.v. de·famed, de·fam·ing, de·fames
1. To damage the reputation, character, or good name of by slander or libel. See Synonyms at malign.
2. Archaic To disgrace.


I *do* know what defame means!


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> The Mexican cartel will grab you by the hair and chop your head off. Protection wise, I would definitely go with the Mexican cartel....


Vatican has commandos, and an actual military.... It's a friggin' city, that's it's own country because they have so much money.


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## Stark Raving (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Lol dude, that's not blasphemy. You have to have a pure hatred for the holy spirit (which you can't have because you're an atheist) in order to blaspheme the holy spirit.


And from what part of the bible did you learn this? Or is it only atheists that you expect to know the bible?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Stark Raving said:


> And from what part of the bible did you learn this? Or is it only atheists that you expect to know the bible?


It's only atheists that I expect to know the bible.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Vatican has commandos, and an actual military.... It's a friggin' city, that's it's own country because they have so much money.


Do they kill people for not following their orders?


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

Of course you have never seen christians break out AKs and fuck EACHOTHER up, just like you havent seen a gang open fire on itself. Gangs only open ak fire on other gangs just like christians only open ak fire on other religions, not themselves.. And yes, christians are opening fire on other religions RIGHT NOW. Serbia, croatia, sulawesi...its heppening.

You dont see anything about gangs because because there is no argument that gangs are bad with anyone, and to be honest, christians negatively impact my life on a much more frequent basis than gangs do.

I would be willing to argue even that Christian ideology manifested in law and its enforcement actually increases the presence and negative impact of gangs. The lawful oppression of certain trades drives it underground, unregulated, increasing the price of things and due to lack of regulation an increase in violence.

But of course you will say, "thats rediculously untrue! The prohibition of something in law makes it happen less and thus reduces its negative impact." Or"how could something so good do something bad, thats rediculous!" Answer: 1)because its not good 2) because religious people are the problem and are most comfortable with their heads securely stuck up their own asses.


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## Stark Raving (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> It's only atheists that I expect to know the bible.


This is what I've come to expect from the average christian (though there are exceptions). You can't back up what you say, yet you expect anyone who doesn't share your point of view to.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> "What is the unpardonable sin and what constitutes blasphemy? The Greek word translated "blasphemy" is [blasphemeo], and for Biblical purposes may generally be defined as "speaking evil against" or defaming God. Such as vilifying the work of Christ, which the Pharisees were recorded doing in Matthew chapter 12, charging the Lord was an agent of the Devil. "
> 
> I do not believe that god exists. If that's not defaming god, I clearly don't know what defame means.
> 
> ...


look further into it dude. It's not so black and white. Many atheists have tried to believe many atheists simply can't believe. The way to blaspheme the holy spirit is to disrespect it. How can you disrespect something you can't believe? 

And the Pharisees saw jesus' miracles and said be was possesed. They had a different situation then yours lol.

And you're not defaming the holy spirit by not believing. That would mean that people can never be indoctrinated into Christianity. Because previous to their indoctrination, they did not believe in Jesus. There's scriptures that show how people have started following jesus' (metaphorical) path, after they were following a blind and dark path. 
But how can that be if blasphemy isn't forgivable? How can a nonbeliever begin to follow the path to heaven of he didn't used to believe? That means that not believing in the holy spirit is forgivable, therefore, it is not blasphemy (which is unforgivable).


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Can you show me where the bible says atheists go to hell?


Well, its a pretty reaccuring theme throughout the Bible that if you dont believe and confess with your mouth that jesus is your lord and savior that you wont be saved and are subject to in the very least "abrams bussom" and if you listen to saul/paul we will go to hell with the sulfer and nashing of teeth and burning that mever goes away...and ghandi, the buddha (the original one) all the dalai lamas and a lot of other really great people.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Stark Raving said:


> This is what I've come to expect from the average christian (though there are exceptions). You can't back up what you say, yet you expect anyone who doesn't share your point of view to.


Back up what? I haven't said anything that needs to be backed up. Have I said anything is fact? The answer is no. 

Besides I was just being a smartass like you....


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Well, its a pretty reaccuring theme throughout the Bible that if you dont believe and confess with your mouth that jesus is your lord and savior that you wont be saved and are subject to in the very least "abrams bussom" and if you listen to saul/paul we will go to hell with the sulfer and nashing of teeth and burning that mever goes away...and ghandi, the buddha (the original one) all the dalai lamas and a lot of other really great people.


Post the scripture shows atheists go to hell and I will drop my argument....


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> look further into it dude. It's not so black and white. Many atheists have tried to believe many atheists simply can't believe. The way to blaspheme the holy spirit is to disrespect it. How can you disrespect something you can't believe?
> 
> And the Pharisees saw jesus' miracles and said be was possesed. They had a different situation then yours lol.
> 
> ...


Well tell me then...am I going to hell? You know my view, the waiting for the christian religicide amd the pissing down the throats of the christian agenda... How bout me? I'll blaspheme any christian holy thing you got. Am I going to hell?

By the way, when I started this thread, I knew you would show up


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Post the scripture shows atheists go to hell and I will drop my argument....


You know THAT doesnt exist as a technicality due to tje word athiesm not being present in the bible. But you and I both know all those past tje age of reason that dont accept jesus will go to hell. Seriously man...you know this...we all know this...this is a cornerstone christian belief.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Well tell me then...am I going to hell? You know my view, the waiting for the christian religicide amd the pissing down the throats of the christian agenda... How bout me? I'll blaspheme any christian holy thing you got. Am I going to hell?
> 
> By the way, when I started this thread, I knew you would show up


Well I don't know. Do you believe th holy ghost yet hate it? If so then I believe you won't go to heaven (I don't believe I will either). 
If you're just saying you're blaspheming the holy spirit but don't believe it, then you don't really hate the holy spirit, therefore you're not blaspheming anything.

So is there a point in telling me you knew I was gonna show up or did you just feel like saying that?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> You know THAT doesnt exist as a technicality due to tje word athiesm not being present in the bible. But you and I both know all those past tje age of reason that dont accept jesus will go to hell. Seriously man...you know this...we all know this...this is a cornerstone christian belief.


I actually believe man atheists will make their way to a better place. I don't see where the bible says atheists go to hell. 

Cornerstone Christian belief? What like a scare tactic?
I don't do that lol. I don't try to scare people into being Christian by waving hell over their heads.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

Its funny, whenever there is a clear "christians, stay away" tone to a thread, you know hephaestus420 or whatever mushroom dudes name is, he'll show up. He is the best example of chriatians that want to get up in your business and tell you christianity is great. Bro, you are a HORRIBLE example for Christianity. If you are correct about it all, God is going to have huge issues with how you represented chriatianity and actually turned people away from liking the message.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Well I don't know. Do you believe th holy ghost yet hate it? If so then I believe you won't go to heaven (I don't believe I will either).
> If you're just saying you're blaspheming the holy spirit but don't believe it, then you don't really hate the holy spirit, therefore you're not blaspheming anything.
> 
> So is there a point in telling me you knew I was gonna show up or did you just feel like saying that?


Oh, so thats awesome... Everyone but christians and athiests go to hell. God WAS jewish after all, lawyer like technicality like that allowing athiests into heven. JK So do agnostics get into heaven too? Because they arent blaspheming....? I guess the bible isnt so airtight after all. Weird, I would have really thought a bunch of illiterate desert dwelling goat herders would be able to come up with the complete and absolute answer to everything spiritual in this world and the next. That seems like it could be a goat herders strongpoint....strange.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Its funny, whenever there is a clear "christians, stay away" tone to a thread, you know hephaestus420 or whatever mushroom dudes name is, he'll show up. He is the best example of chriatians that want to get up in your business and tell you christianity is great. Bro, you are a HORRIBLE example for Christianity. If you are correct about it all, God is going to have huge issues with how you represented chriatianity and actually turned people away from liking the message.


How am I horrible example of Christianity?
Where did I say Christianity is great? 
Do you not realize that you got in religions metaphorical face? You're actually the nosey person lol. 
I'm sure god will have problem with all of us, I ne'er claimed he wouldn't have a problem with me.
And to clarify, I do not want to be a symbol for Christians, I'm not good enough. 
How have I turned people away from Christianity? 
Everything you have just said is complete bullshit.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Oh, so thats awesome... Everyone but christians and athiests go to hell. God WAS jewish after all, lawyer like technicality like that allowing athiests into heven. JK So do agnostics get into heaven too? Because they arent blaspheming....? I guess the bible isnt so airtight after all. Weird, I would have really thought a bunch of illiterate desert dwelling goat herders would be able to come up with the complete and absolute answer to everything spiritual in this world and the next. That seems like it could be a goat herders strongpoint....strange.


Lol, do you even know what you're arguing about anymore? Did I say Jews don't go to heaven? I know Jesus was a Jew lol, that doesn't change any of my beliefs.


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## Stark Raving (Oct 24, 2011)

The bible is plenty clear about the fact that the only way to get into Club Heaven is by having faith in the magical sky daddy and his zombie son, lord cheezus.

According to Romans 5:1, faith alone is the only way to be saved; *"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."*

Also, Romans 3:28 says;* "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."*


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Stark Raving said:


> The bible is plenty clear about the fact that the only way to get into Club Heaven is by having faith in the magical sky daddy and his zombie son, lord cheezus.
> 
> According to Romans 5:1, faith alone is the only way to be saved; *"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."*
> 
> Also, Romans 3:28 says;* "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."*


So those passages say faith is the ONLY way?


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## Stark Raving (Oct 24, 2011)

Well god is pretty clear about the fact that our actions are irrelevant, so other than faith, what is there?


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## olylifter420 (Oct 24, 2011)

repent... ask for forgiveness. 


all you fools talking shit are all going to hell!!!!!!!!


you like that right, you dirty bastard, oh yeah, you like it right fucker, you like that nice talk in your ear, slowly caressing your hair, your going to hell





Stark Raving said:


> Well god is pretty clear about the fact that our actions are irrelevant, so other than faith, what is there?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Stark Raving said:


> Well god is pretty clear about the fact that our actions are irrelevant, so other than faith, what is there?


gods judgment will determine what happens.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> repent... ask for forgiveness.
> 
> 
> all you fools talking shit are all going to hell!!!!!!!!
> ...


 this is what they think we do lol.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 24, 2011)

yea, its pretty funny that these douches especially the OP complain that we (here on RIU) are shoving all our religious talks when you and i know very well that there is no such thread... if there is, they must be old, cause from what i can remember, we have not done what they say we have...


i guess they have nothing better to do then be children on the playground and start bickering cause they feel molested.





Hepheastus420 said:


> this is what they think we do lol.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> yea, its pretty funny that these douches especially the OP complain that we (here on RIU) are shoving all our religious talks when you and i know very well that there is no such thread... if there is, they must be old, cause from what i can remember, we have not done what they say we have...
> 
> 
> i guess they have nothing better to do then be children on the playground and start bickering cause they feel molested.


Lol yeah, besides this list isn't very long haha.


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## bryon209 (Oct 24, 2011)

things christians ruined..........how bout old fashioned stealing from the poor!!!!!


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## bryon209 (Oct 24, 2011)

how bout the crusades


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 24, 2011)

Intermission! Sounds like we need a tension break in here!

I picked up some bomb buds tonight! Check it out!












From left to right is; Grapefruit Kush, White Widow, and Lemon Haze....


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## wannabe grower (Oct 24, 2011)

If you want 'em to go away tell 'em God made weed then just wait...........


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Intermission! Sounds like we need a tension break in here!
> 
> I picked up some bomb buds tonight! Check it out!
> 
> ...


 Thanks man, we needed a tension break. You're a good guy, plus rep....


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## bryon209 (Oct 24, 2011)

uneducated idiots make up of 95 percent of christians ....grew up in a christian home but then I learned somthing about christianity that wasnt tainted by the church.....how the christians murdered hundreds of thousands....even raping and breeding out races that might have to strong of religous backrounds....mayans indians incans you know.....and alll the scripts and scrolls they burned....hmmmm scared of somthing weren't they .....bunch of bs waste of time and money......besides its funny hlf of the stories in the bible are rip off or cheap remakes of religious stories thousands of years older than christianity.....they couldnt even come up with an original story.....magic is not real you silly christians...try again


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## k0ijn (Oct 24, 2011)

Religious people think morals and ethics stem from religious teachings/scripture.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

bryon209 said:


> uneducated idiots make up of 95 percent of christians ....grew up in a christian home but then I learned somthing about christianity that wasnt tainted by the church.....how the christians murdered hundreds of thousands....even raping and breeding out races that might have to strong of religous backrounds....mayans indians incans you know.....and alll the scripts and scrolls they burned....hmmmm scared of somthing weren't they .....bunch of bs waste of time and money......besides its funny hlf of the stories in the bible are rip off or cheap remakes of religious stories thousands of years older than christianity.....they couldnt even come up with an original story.....magic is not real you silly christians...try again


Well now I'm forced to kill you in the name of my god. Well you know, that's what us Christians do lol....


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

k0ijn said:


> Religious people think morals and ethics stem from religious teachings/scripture.


You're wrong there. There are religious people who do believe that morals stem from their religion. But there are MANY religious people that learn their morals without religion and know they didn't learn their morals from religion and acknowledge they have learned their morals without religion.


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## cannabineer (Oct 24, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Of course you have never seen christians break out AKs and fuck EACHOTHER up, just like you havent seen a gang open fire on itself. Gangs only open ak fire on other gangs just like christians only open ak fire on other religions, not themselves.. And yes, christians are opening fire on other religions RIGHT NOW. Serbia, croatia, sulawesi...its heppening.
> 
> You dont see anything about gangs because because there is no argument that gangs are bad with anyone, and to be honest, christians negatively impact my life on a much more frequent basis than gangs do.
> 
> ...


One word: Ireland. cn


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## cannabineer (Oct 24, 2011)

In re atheists and hell, I offer Revelation 21:8, NIV.
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars&#8212;they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.&#8221;  
It seems pretty cut&dry to me ... all atheists are a subset of the unbelievers. cn


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Thanks man, we needed a tension break. You're a good guy, plus rep....



Thanks man! You're a good guy too, it doesn't matter what our philosophies and religions are as long as we don't let them become everything we're about.

Here's some extra pics!


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> yea, its pretty funny that these douches especially the OP complain that we (here on RIU) are shoving all our religious talks when you and i know very well that there is no such thread... if there is, they must be old, cause from what i can remember, we have not done what they say we have...
> 
> 
> i guess they have nothing better to do then be children on the playground and start bickering cause they feel molested.


Are you fucking serious!! The name of this thread is list of things religion has made worse, not "opportunity for christians to explain why its not their fault" add to that list-this thread. You guys come onto an antichristian thread and start in on deffending christianity. Know where you arent wanted. You guys have jacked this thread just like you jacked our country in the 1950s. Serious? Im shoving shit down YOUR throat? This is OUR discussion, you come on with your pro-christian bullshit. Thats NOT what this thread is for.


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## wannabe grower (Oct 24, 2011)

I've been wondering about idolaters lately. I mean people who worship crosses and statues of people and stuff like that.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Are you fucking serious!! The name of this thread is list of things religion has made worse, not "opportunity for christians to explain why its not their fault" add to that list-this thread. You guys come onto an antichristian thread and start in on deffending christianity. Know where you arent wanted. You guys have jacked this thread just like you jacked our country in the 1950s. Serious? Im shoving shit down YOUR throat? This is OUR discussion, you come on with your pro-christian bullshit. Thats NOT what this thread is for.


Oly didn't say you're shoving anythin down anyone's throat lol, calm your little mind.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

wannabe grower said:


> I've been wondering about idolaters lately. I mean people who worship crosses and statues of people and stuff like that.


I've always wondered that too. I don't like to worship things like that, the bible actually says not to worship those things.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Here this should settle the atheist/hell debate once and for all. 
http://www.internetchurchofchrist.org/pearl-doallnonchristiansgotohell.html
I understand that this may annoy many of you atheists out there, so ignore it when they're like "the devil did it".


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## cannabineer (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Here this should settle the atheist/hell debate once and for all.
> http://www.internetchurchofchrist.org/pearl-doallnonchristiansgotohell.html
> I understand that this may annoy many of you atheists out there, so ignore it when they're like "the devil did it".


They made no mention of the verse I presented.  cn


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## wannabe grower (Oct 24, 2011)

I thought the devil was made up somewhere between the 14th and 17th centuries to scare people. See the problem with the bible is it's like a game of telephone. Each person hears what they want then interprets it how they'd like and spits it out over 2 centuries. Yeah I think I'd like to believe in something like that. Oh wait the Romans didn't like Christianity at first now they're the biggest perpetrators of it? King Henry VIII didn't like the Roman version so he made his own. There were 2 popes and 2 Centers of the Papacy at one time. With all that confusion you'd think maybe some things got lost in translation. hole books of the bible intentionally left out cuz they "weren't a good read". You can stop me anytime.....


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> They made no mention of the verse I presented.  cn


Hmm I'm really gonna look into that for you neer.... Questioning my beliefs time, let's see what I find out, .

I may see you in the lake of fire buddy.


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## Pat the stoner (Oct 24, 2011)

It seems to me that if christianity is really what it claims to be that christian churches will be sending more people to hell than the devil , and that maybe they could all repent for the wicked shit that they impose on our society and stop breaking all their own rules and then saying It's ok I believe in Jesus so God will forgive me . No one else can be that special cause they are all going to hell for not being christians . Besides being a bunch of murderous bastards . If there is anyone who thinks its a good idea to kill little old ladies and babies just cause God told you to , then please by all means start by killing yourself and do the rest of us a favor . WERE sick of your self rightous judgemental bullshit ! Somewhere there may be christians who are not like that but I have never met them .


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

wannabe grower said:


> I thought the devil was made up somewhere between the 14th and 17th centuries to scare people. See the problem with the bible is it's like a game of telephone. Each person hears what they want then interprets it how they'd like and spits it out over 2 centuries. Yeah I think I'd like to believe in something like that. Oh wait the Romans didn't like Christianity at first now they're the biggest perpetrators of it? King Henry VIII didn't like the Roman version so he made his own. There were 2 popes and 2 Centers of the Papacy at one time. With all that confusion you'd think maybe some things got lost in translation. hole books of the bible intentionally left out cuz they "weren't a good read". You can stop me anytime.....


can I publish my own bible? I wanna find the oldest recorded bible and translate it just like that. And I'm gonna include EVERYTHING.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

wannabe grower said:


> I thought the devil was made up somewhere between the 14th and 17th centuries to scare people. See the problem with the bible is it's like a game of telephone. Each person hears what they want then interprets it how they'd like and spits it out over 2 centuries. Yeah I think I'd like to believe in something like that. Oh wait the Romans didn't like Christianity at first now they're the biggest perpetrators of it? King Henry VIII didn't like the Roman version so he made his own. There were 2 popes and 2 Centers of the Papacy at one time. With all that confusion you'd think maybe some things got lost in translation. hole books of the bible intentionally left out cuz they "weren't a good read". You can stop me anytime.....





Pat the stoner said:


> It seems to me that if christianity is really what it claims to be that christian churches will be sending more people to hell than the devil , and that maybe they could all repent for the wicked shit that they impose on our society and stop breaking all their own rules and then saying It's ok I believe in Jesus so God will forgive me . No one else can be that special cause they are all going to hell for not being christians . Besides being a bunch of murderous bastards . If there is anyone who thinks its a good idea to kill little old ladies and babies just cause God told you to , then please by all means start by killing yourself and do the rest of us a favor . WERE sick of your self rightous judgemental bullshit ! Somewhere there may be christians who are not like that but I have never met them .





Hepheastus420 said:


> can I publish my own bible? I wanna find the oldest recorded bible and translate it just like that. And I'm gonna include EVERYTHING.


even the gospel of judas?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Pat the stoner said:


> It seems to me that if christianity is really what it claims to be that christian churches will be sending more people to hell than the devil , and that maybe they could all repent for the wicked shit that they impose on our society and stop breaking all their own rules and then saying It's ok I believe in Jesus so God will forgive me . No one else can be that special cause they are all going to hell for not being christians . Besides being a bunch of murderous bastards . If there is anyone who thinks its a good idea to kill little old ladies and babies just cause God told you to , then please by all means start by killing yourself and do the rest of us a favor . WERE sick of your self rightous judgemental bullshit ! Somewhere there may be christians who are not like that but I have never met them .


You have never met a chill Christian who doesn't kill people? Jeez, you need to go out a little more lol. If you met me I would smoke some bowls with you, play some n64, and not mention my religion. You would see nothing religion related inside my house (besides my bible, which is hidden to avoid stupid arguments). Maybe you have met good Christians, you just don't know yet....


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## wannabe grower (Oct 24, 2011)

Good luck with the publishing everything part I doubt you'd be able to lay eyes on a lot of the material because it's locked up where you can't see it, or not even been found, or destroyed over the ages. But I'm sure you could write your own Bible ala Gideon's or the fella who made up the mormons.


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## cannabineer (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Hmm I'm really gonna look into that for you neer.... Questioning my beliefs time, let's see what I find out, .
> 
> I may see you in the lake of fire buddy.


More like "asking questions" ... or rather, answering your challenge. cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

wannabe grower said:


> Good luck with the publishing everything part I doubt you'd be able to lay eyes on a lot of the material because it's locked up where you can't see it, or not even been found, or destroyed over the ages. But I'm sure you could write your own Bible ala Gideon's or the fella who made up the mormons.


So the Mormons apparently follow the original bible? Serious question BTW....


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> More like "asking questions" ... or rather, answering your challenge. cn


????
I am asking questions, hence me saying "questioning my beliefs". Answering my challenge? What is my challenge? Is it my beliefs? Ahh I'm confused, I feel brain dead now.... Thanks neer, lol.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Oly didn't say you're shoving anythin down anyone's throat lol, calm your little mind.


Dont say I have a little mind because my beliefs dont coincide with yours. Statistically speaking I am over two full standard deviations away from a normal mind, a little mind...a few more. I am an intellectual anomally Texan, I would make you and yours look like a pack of ferrel imbreds in a setting of the actually educated.


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## wannabe grower (Oct 24, 2011)

Heck you don't need to even know anything about the original Bible to make up your own. You could be the next L Ron Hubbard and come up with your version of Dianetics.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Dont say I have a little mind because my beliefs dont coincide with yours. Statistically speaking I am over two full standard deviations away from a normal mind, a little mind...a few more. I am an intellectual anomally Texan, I would make you and yours look like a pack of ferrel imbreds in a setting of the actually educated.


If you are so smart, why did you think oly said that you guys were stuffing religion down his throat?


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So the Mormons apparently follow the original bible? Serious question BTW....


No. joseph smith made additions and alterations to the bible. It is however based from christianity in a roaming a salty wasteland for too long kind of way


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> No. joseph smith made additions and alterations to the bible. It is however based from christianity in a roaming a salty wasteland for too long


So the Mormons are just as lost as many mainstream Christian groups?


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> How am I horrible example of Christianity?
> Where did I say Christianity is great?
> Do you not realize that you got in religions metaphorical face? You're actually the nosey person lol.
> I'm sure god will have problem with all of us, I ne'er claimed he wouldn't have a problem with me.
> ...


Your correct, leftover sentiment from this post where you say I'm the one getting in your face and being nosey.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So the Mormons are just as lost as many mainstream Christian groups?


I would say equally wrong as, but not just as lost. At least they keep to themselves, despite their continuous effort to bulldove politics, they are less impactful than regular christians to our everyday lives


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## cannabineer (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> ????
> I am asking questions, hence me saying "questioning my beliefs". Answering my challenge? What is my challenge? Is it my beliefs? Ahh I'm confused, I feel brain dead now.... Thanks neer, lol.


In post #41 you asked "show where in the Bible it says" ... about atheists going to hell. Imo the verse i posted speaks directly to that. I'm not trolling you, heph ... I'm participating in the discussion ... I think ... cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> In post #41 you asked "show where in the Bible it says" ... about atheists going to hell. Imo the verse i posted speaks directly to that. I'm not trolling you, heph ... I'm participating in the discussion ... I think ... cn


Oh yeah I know you're not trolling me. That's wu I said I'm gonna question my side of the argument. I might be wrong about atheists and hell, well tomorow I'm gonna go on a quest to figure it out. I might take a walk to the nearest church and talk to the priest about this....


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Oh yeah I know you're not trolling me. That's wu I said I'm gonna question my side of the argument. I might be wrong about atheists and hell, well tomorow I'm gonna go on a quest to figure it out. I might take a walk to the nearest churn and talk to the priest about this....


Ask about agnostics too. My left nut says my right nut ends up in hell.


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## cannabineer (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Oh yeah I know you're not trolling me. That's wu I said I'm gonna question my side of the argument. I might be wrong about atheists and hell, well tomorow I'm gonna go on a quest to figure it out. I might take a walk to the nearest *churn* and talk to the priest about this....


Ask for the Reverend Butter, or Sister Cream ... (couldn't resist) cn


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 24, 2011)

...anyone like baseball?


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Oh yeah I know you're not trolling me. That's wu I said I'm gonna question my side of the argument. I might be wrong about atheists and hell, well tomorow I'm gonna go on a quest to figure it out. I might take a walk to the nearest church and talk to the priest about this....


haha what about the over 300 different religious figures that have the exact same story as "jesus" but thats right Christianity even thru the bullshit and lies and deceit and prejudiced is still the right religion hahaha what a fucking joke especially born again Christians ur all gonna be the ones going to hell for urr blasphemy hey btw have u herd about the reverse exorcism???? the devil couldn't get the priest outta the little boy rofl!!!


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

skunkpunk13 said:


> haha what about the over 300 different religious figures that have the exact same story as "jesus" but thats right Christianity even thru the bullshit and lies and deceit and prejudiced is still the right religion hahaha what a fucking joke especially born again Christians ur all gonna be the ones going to hell for urr blasphemy hey btw have u herd about the reverse exorcism???? the devil couldn't get the priest outta the little boy rofl!!!


So you threaten us with hell? Lol you're a funny guy. 
Lol, so you believe in hell yet call it bullshit?
Or maybe you just pick and choose. You know like you don't believe so that you can mock others, but you believe in hell so that you can hold it over our heads lol.

It's assholes like you that give atheists a bad name. I know your douchiness doesn't stem from your atheism, but many people will perceive it that way. Well if I go to hell, I'll see ya there lol.


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So you threaten us with hell? Lol you're a funny guy.
> Lol, so you believe in hell yet call it bullshit?
> Or maybe you just pick and choose. You know like you don't believe so that you can mock others, but you believe in hell so that you can hold it over our heads lol.
> 
> It's assholes like you that give atheists a bad name. I know your douchiness doesn't stem from your atheism, but many people will perceive it that way. Well if I go to hell, I'll see ya there lol.


ur just like every other christian with verbal diarrhea im not a atheist in fact i was raised catholic lol im a Buddhist and i do believe there is a battle between good and evil but do i think ur christianity is the way to go most deffanatly not in fact i believe its a joke and guess what the joke is on you for following the cult of Christians who cant even have a original idea and its funny u say pick and choose after all isnt it u christians who pick and choose the most if u have money and are a complete moron and fit into our criteria we will accept you into our cult but if ur not like the rrest off us we will banish you to the great depths of hell.... lol what a joke!!!!!!!!!


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 24, 2011)

and another thing...... how would jebus feel about ur drug use let alone the other members of ur churrch?????? cough cough hypocrit after all isnt ur body a insterment of jesus and how can u correctly spread the "scripture of christ" on a head full of mushrooms....... seems more like a scape goat and a convenient way to attemp to make ur life have some sort of meaning thru out ur boring menial life of judging and hating oh yeah and i love the fact that when u get into a argument about how ridiculous Christianity is and how there beliefs are so misconstrued 99% of them react with anger tisk tisk jesus frowns upon that


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## cannabineer (Oct 24, 2011)

skunkpunk13 said:


> ur just like every other christian with verbal diarrhea im not a atheist in fact i was raised catholic lol im a Buddhist and i do believe there is a battle between good and evil but do i think ur christianity is the way to go most deffanatly not in fact i believe its a joke and guess what the joke is on you for following the cult of Christians who cant even have a original idea and its funny u say pick and choose after all isnt it u christians who pick and choose the most if u have money and are a complete moron and fit into our criteria we will accept you into our cult but if ur not like the rrest off us we will banish you to the great depths of hell.... lol what a joke!!!!!!!!!


 Well ... way to pop my bubble. I thought Buddhists preached Nice. cn


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 24, 2011)

very christian like huh......*Beware for I am the shroom fiend.




*


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## olylifter420 (Oct 24, 2011)

very childish like right...... hhuuuhhh... 




skunkpunk13 said:


> very christian like huh......*Beware for I am the shroom fiend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 24, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> very childish like right...... hhuuuhhh...


thats not childish at all infact im simply trying to show him the error of his ways if he truely wants to be close to his so called god


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## cannabineer (Oct 24, 2011)

That laugh made me think of ...


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 24, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> Well ... way to pop my bubble. I thought Buddhists preached Nice. cn


im still on the road to enlightenment i am in no way near perfect but all i can do is try weres the harrm in trying to better myself???


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## olylifter420 (Oct 24, 2011)

dude, why does it bother you so much if heph has done nothing you all claim we believers do to you all that gets you so butt hurt?

no one is perfect and to say you are or to claim someone is a hypocrite cause they are not perfect is a big foul on your part dude... claiming he is not christ like is retarded... '







skunkpunk13 said:


> thats not childish at all infact im simply trying to show him the error of his ways if he truely wants to be close to his so called god


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 24, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> dude, why does it bother you so much if heph has done nothing you all claim we believers do to you all that gets you so butt hurt?
> 
> no one is perfect and to say you are or to claim someone is a hypocrite cause they are not perfect is a big foul on your part dude... claiming he is not christ like is retarded... '


i dont know if its because im high or you just have really horrible grammatical skills but what u said makes no scence to me what so ever rofl!!!


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 24, 2011)

http://youtu.be/GUZ5gGO0_Pw .............. ur wrong!!!!


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 24, 2011)

oh and how could i forget the great mr. camping lol hows the 6 failed rapture predictions treatin you????


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 24, 2011)

Lol skunkpunk you are the hypocrite. You're a budhist? Fuck no you're not, well at least you don't act the part.

What would Jesus care about my drug use? He wouldn't lol. I mean his father created them.

Where's the harm in trying to better yourself?
Haha that's great. You're not trying to better yourself. If you have bettered yourself, then your previous self must have been the biggest dick in the world.

Camping? Do you think all Christians followed him? You're an Ignorant fuck. 

How about instead of trying to fix my ways, you fix your own fucked up ways. I take care of myself and you take care of yourself.

And again, where have I banished anyone to hell?

Man you are the complete opposite of what I perceived budhists as. Maybe you're the anti-budhist lol. 

Fuck off buddy.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 25, 2011)

Heph...

http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/apostasy.htm

http://www.studylight.org/dic/hbd/view.cgi?number=T384

??


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 25, 2011)

skunkpunk13 said:


> i dont know if its because im high or you just have really horrible grammatical skills but what u said makes no scence to me what so ever rofl!!!


He has really bad grammar? The only time you used periods in any of these posts is where you type "...........", or the *one* you copy and pasted from Heph's sig *by accident.*

Go through your posts from #98 to #111, you didn't use one period (on purpose) to end a sentence. 



Just thought it was funny you commented on his grammar.


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## Pat the stoner (Oct 25, 2011)

If you look at all the christian based wars right up until now and listen to what a lot of christians are saying right now about how their war is rightous and the jews should kill the arabs kind of stuff thats being talked about check it out if you havent , it's messed up . Maybe you are not like all that and your not gonna judge me and then condescend upon me which is cool and I take no issue with that , however collectively as a group of people who are supposed to be the light of the world I personally have been exposed to what I call christian fascism far too much and personally I am really sick of it . I never said that every christian was like that , it would be ridiculous to stereotype everyone , however here in the bible belt what I see is a far cry from what christianity claims to be . Too many preachers want to preach people into hell instead of preaching them out of it . I am out in it every day dude and it is just messed up . Christianity is to me something that should be so wonderful but for some reason it , at the hands of those who profess to be christians has in far too many cases become something else . So much so that people feel the need to post threads like this . I been going to church all my life and I have met some cool people . But I met a bunch more of other shit in there that really doesnt jive with the teachings bro . As a christian mayby you could take issue with that , so many people don't feel yhe same way as I do because people claiming to be christians have been so nice to us . It is not my intent to insult anyones religeous beliefs , but the title of this thread should let people know there is something about what I'm saying that is true and certainly others feel that way too.


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## Pat the stoner (Oct 25, 2011)

I would not come on here and say this stuff if the title was like - How Wonderful It Is To Be A Christian . The golden rule is the most kick ass teaching I ever heard of in regards to how we could be toward each other .Anyone could benefit from that. The throwing away of good stuff like that and replacing it with condescention and fascism by those claiming to be christians is what bothers me . I you are a christian and not like that then maybe it bothers you too ? I just had a whole huge battle with a preacher who threatened my life , tried to steal my bussiness and did a whole bunch of dirty shit to quite a few people besides me . Now my wife lives with him and his wife and she gives them all her money , I mean all of it dude . But what the fuck do I know . He tells them all what God needs them to do (mostly do for him so he can sleep fom midnight till 3 in the afternoon and get all his bills paid and have money to gamble with). Any way Heph I hope you arent like that , have a great day !


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## olylifter420 (Oct 25, 2011)

dude, you dont appreciate it when people try and communicate with you in your own special language.. I thought maybe communicating with you in the way you communicate with others would show you something, goes to show that you yourself do not understand yourself





skunkpunk13 said:


> i dont know if its because im high or you just have really horrible grammatical skills but what u said makes no scence to me what so ever rofl!!!


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 25, 2011)

angry christians ranting as usual ,........a few hundred years ago people like ollylifter would slice your throat whilst you slept, for not believing in there imaginary god .


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 25, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcE3Ch_y3Kw if this does not make u rethink ur believe then ur far to hopeless........ and i dont really care about the periods in a sentance or in this case one big run on sentance...... silly christians


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 25, 2011)

skunkpunk13 said:


> and i dont really care about the periods in a sentance or in this case one big run on sentance...... silly christians



I'm an atheist lol - you can look at any of my other many, many, posts regarding the topic. 

I just think it's funny that you chose that specific thing to criticize someone on, when your grammar is just as bad, if not worse.


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 25, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> I'm an atheist lol - you can look at any of my other many, many, posts regarding the topic.
> 
> I just think it's funny that you chose that specific thing to criticize someone on, when your grammar is just as bad, if not worse.


if you choose to think that my grammer is worse then his thats on you, i however firmly do not believe that it is.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 25, 2011)

you guys worry me,

[video=youtube;VsOPiH-xbRs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsOPiH-xbRs&feature=related[/video]


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> angry christians ranting as usual ,........a few hundred years ago people like ollylifter would slice your throat whilst you slept, for not believing in there imaginary god .


So you don't understand this thread is basically a rant against Christians?


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## olylifter420 (Oct 25, 2011)

No, i dont think he does brother, his brick brain cant compute letters and meanings or mostly anything for that sake, lol...





Hepheastus420 said:


> So you don't understand this thread is basically a rant against Christians?


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 25, 2011)

i love how the only ones who are getting angry are the christians just as usual there only response is anger. lol


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## olylifter420 (Oct 25, 2011)

i really like how atheists here think they are getting under peoples skin!!! LOL


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 25, 2011)

i really like how christians think any one who doesn't believe in there "god" is grouped into a atheist


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 25, 2011)

skunkpunk13 said:


> i love how the only ones who are getting angry are the christians just as usual there only response is anger. lol


Nah anti-budha, you're not getting us mad. Making us laugh but not making us lose patience.


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 25, 2011)

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! anti-buddah


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 25, 2011)

skunkpunk13 said:


> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! anti-buddah


Lol glad you liked it so much....


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 25, 2011)

10 reasons why chrisitans are wrong!!!
*10. It is Absurd:* This may seem like I am re-stating what this list sets out to show. However, this is misleading. When someone comes to us with an extravagant claim the most common reason we may discount the claim is because, to put it curtly, we find it absurd. The reason why the majority of people don't believe in Scientology, reincarnation, Mormonism, Greek Gods, etc. is not because they have extensively researched the historicity and veracity of the claims, it is because they don't believe such things happen in the world. In other words, common sense tells us that when someone claims the absurd almost anything is more likely to be the case (i.e. they are lying, they are delusional, they are relying on misinformation) than for the absurdity to be real. Men do not miraculously heal the sick, raise the dead, cure the blind, and rise from the grave. The claims of Christianity are prima facie absurd. The burden of proof is on them.
*9. Jesus Has Not Returned:* This, also, may seem a soft point. However, for 2000 years--80 generations--a substantial number of _every single_ generation of Christians has whole-heartedly believed that Jesus' return was imminent. This often included exact dates that, when they came to pass, did not cause the believers to toss their erroneous ideologies aside. And this perennial incorrectness goes back to the beginning. One can only understand the earliest Christians--the generation immediately following Jesus' death--as a group who were expecting Jesus to return at any moment (I Thess 4:15-17). Why did they believe this? Because, on more than one occasion, Jesus unequivocally said so (Mark 9:1, Matthew 26:64, Mark 13:30). Christians have proven to be resolutely imperturbable and incorrigible to their continued failures.
*8. God Doesn't Care:* Most people believe in God. And, when asked why they believe in God, the most common answer is taken from the argument from design: the universe is too ordered and beautiful to have arisen without an intelligence behind it. Whether or not this is true, this claim has little to do with Christianity. Christianity claims that God not only created the world but also takes an active part in its management, in our moral choices, and in our fates. In other words; He cares. It is this conception of God that bends credulity to the breaking point. God as _essence_--that is a "first cause" God or a "higher power" God--is a far less difficult concept than God as _being_. First of all, according to centuries old Christian dogma, God is immutable. In other words He is a static, non-changing "being" that cannot create new beliefs, make inferences, or adjust desires. Secondly the idea of an omniscient, omnipotent "being" having desires borders on the nonsensical. If all things are known--all that ever was, is, or will be--what would be the point of desiring anything? This is not just a simple word game. Christians consistently claim that God "wants" us to believe in him and follow his commandments. However, they also claim that he knows whether we will do so or not. So, what is the point of Him wanting anything? A God as essence is palatable. A God as being is not only ridiculous but likely impossible. (P.S. This one is for the non-predestinarians. If you are a predestinarian there are other reasons you are wrong: see below. However, most Christians are not predestinarians; although, if they care about consistency [not high on the list], they should be.)
*7. Other Religions: * For most of Christian history the problems caused by other religions were not pressing, if they were considered at all. In the enclosed world of medieval times--when most people would never travel more than 10 miles from their place of birth--people of non-Christian faiths seemed almost phantasms. However, in the modern world the pots have been poured together and the faiths now intermingle on a daily basis. This, of course, brings religious problems to the forefront. But it also should force Christians (and other faiths) to make a few realizations: first, that faiths are conveyed primarily genealogically--from parents to children--as opposed to through dialectical, later-life conversion. We can never reasonably expect everyone to become Christian. This is not because Christianity is right or wrong, but because faiths carry their own momentum that is not derived from the truth or falsity of the beliefs. Secondly, that people of other faiths can live saintly lives of intense moral rectitude that rivals any Christian saint. And third, that people are exceptionally good at perpetuating, believing in, and dying for faiths that are manifestly false (as Christians believe). In other words, as Christians must unhesitatingly accept, people are very good at making up fantastic stories about events and figures in the past and then believing in them with fervor. If Christianity was the only belief system in the world that made extravagant claims, and if its claims resembled none others in the world, then we would have more reason to believe it to be true. However, this is obviously not so. In fact, often the claims of Christianity are hopelessly derivative. Healing and resurrecting god-men have been the objects of stories for millennia (these god-men were particularly common in the Hellenized world of post-Maccabean Palestine. i.e. Apollonius of Tyana). Also, in addition to sharing many strong features with Mithraism and Zoroastrianism, many early Christians found much distaste with the idea of the virgin birth, finding it too pagan. Plutarch writes in _Convivial Disputations_,"The fact of the intercourse of a male god with a mortal woman is conceded by all."
*6. There is No Soul:* The inexcusable flippancy of the term "soul" abounds. And, although most people believe in it and freely use the term, they have no idea what it means. The evidence for physicalism--that the mind is the brain--has become nothing less than overwhelming. This evidence exists not only in the highest levels of research--where scientists can now point to, and manipulate, the exact location in our grey matter where essential characteristics lie--but it exists in the everyday lives of millions of people who take psychotropic drugs on a daily basis. These users will tell you drugs such as Prozac, lithium, Paxil and Ritalin don't just give them a slight pick-me-up, they make them an entirely different person. Some of them must wonder if their "soul" is depressed or happy, anxiety filled or laid-back. Only by ignoring 200 years of medical progress can we believe that we simply inhabit our bodies--dropping by on the way to something better. It isn't "I have a brain," it's "I am a brain."
*5. Evil:* The tried and true returns. If you are a Christian you are probably rolling your eyes because you've heard it time and again. Why don't we atheists understand that: [A] God works in mysterious ways, * God gave us free will which allows us to commit evil and good, [C] the world is in a fallen state, and [D] Satan represents a real presence in the world? No, we don't understand because: [A] clearly God doesn't work in ways that are too mysterious for you to be unhesitant in calling something "He" did "good" and asking him to do "good" things in the world on your behalf. You can either use moral qualifiers to describe God's actions or you cannot; you can't have it both ways.  Not only does this point not jibe with argument "A" (if God works in mysterious ways we couldn't claim that free will is a "good") it is difficult to see how, if free will is good, the using of free will to take away another's free will (i.e. murder) is not intensely problematic in God's eyes. Hitler used his free will to take away the free will of 10 million others. Thus, if, in 1919, God flipped the "become an artist" switch in Hitler's mind, the result would have greatly added to the net amount of freedom in the world. [C] This is a non-starter if the Old Testament is not accurate but, even if it is, a God who holds great-great-great... grandchildren responsible for their ancester's actions does not pass even the bare minimum test of human morality. Without a defined concept of desert, morality is a completely empty concept. It seems God is playing fast and loose on this count. [D] If this objection is forwarded seriously, then it is little more than ditheism (dual theism). Otherwise, in the Christian universe the only power Satan has is that which God lets him have. If you believe in the traditional Christian conception of God you must believe that, ultimately, everything is His fault. Everything. This in a world where rocks fall out of the sky onto innocent people and babies are eaten by dingoes.
4. The Bible is Not Consistent: Many, if not most, Christians would say that the Bible is inerrant. Well, they are wrong. Saying so doesn't require an appeal to history, science, and/or archaeology; it only requires a demonstration that the Bible is incoherent--that is, it contains claims that cannot be true simultaneously. In such instances either one claim is false or they are both false--there is no other possibility. If you wish to throw rationality out the window and claim that a contradiction is possible, then you can just take your ball and go home; you are now playing a game that you can ask no one else to play with you. One example of many: Matthew (1:1-16) claims that there are 27 generations between David and Jesus, Luke (3:23-38) claims 41 generations. These cannot be reconciled. The Bible is not inerrant. QED
3. Christianity Cannot be the Religion that Jesus Preached: The story of Christianity is the story of the beliefs that Jesus professed developing into the religion that professes Jesus. In other words; dogma. It is pure folly to believe that Simon Peter, Thomas, Mary Magdalene et.al followed Jesus because, when he died, they would be able to absolve their sins by believing in him. This later theological construction was created by believers who were searching for a meaning to the seemingly pointless execution of their leader and teacher. Those who originally followed Jesus did so because of his life--because he was an exemplary teacher who radically reinterpreted the Law in favor of inclusion rather than exclusion. Those who now follow Jesus do so because of his death. They turn a man's poignant teachings--his life's work--into a secondary and near meaningless preface to the panacea of his death. We primarily have Paul and John the evangelist (two people who did not know Jesus in his life) to thank for this inexcusable dumbing-down of Jesus' life. With Paul and John's help, what Christianity would become is embodied in the Nicene Creed. Take a look at it. Dogmatic fiat has expurgated everything the man stood for.
2. The Gospels are not Historically Reliable:  We need not demonstrate Biblical errors solely through appeals to internal consistency. Doing so only tells us that something in the "word of God" is awry--but not necessarily which word is wrong. In order to perform Biblical analysis that actually broadens our view of what is true and false in the "good" book we need to bring in external sources. From these external sources we learn that the Bible makes claims that cannot stand up to even the most cursory historical examination. In the Gospel of Luke the story is told of a census enacted by the governor Quirinius (Luke 2:1-7). The census, according to Luke, required everyone to return to their ancestral homes to be counted. Thus Joseph, being in the line of David, travels from Nazareth to Bethlehem where--after unadvisedly traveling ninety miles with a woman in the final days of pregnancy--Mary gives birth. The Romans, being meticulous record keepers, did take censuses. However, because of this meticulous record keeping, we know that the only census conducted during Quirinius' governorship took place in A.D. 6-7--a time over ten years after Herod was king of Judea (Luke claims they are contemporaries). However, aside from this fact we can use common sense to realize that the story is totally unbelievable. Luke invents an empire-wide migration for a simple tax registration: millions of people traveling hundreds or thousands of miles to go to their ancestral home of a millennium past (David predates Joseph by approx. 1000 years) in order to sign a simple form. Imagine this happening today. Imagine the cataclysmic disruption of societies resulting from the masses of people crossing boarders and oceans in order to sign a form. This, of course, supposes you could even find your ancestral home of a millennium past. No, something is wrong here and it isn't that the Romans liked to periodically enact sadistically cumbersome legislation. No, I think our evangelist needs to go back to history class. But wait...
1. The Gospels are not History: This may seem like a paltry excuse for the number one spot on a list that makes such a grandiose claim. This reason, however, is the lynch pin. The historicity of the Gospels represents the most crucial element of Christianity--for either its truth or falsity. Christianity claims a specific historical relationship between God and man. If that relationship is historically inaccurate then Christianity is wrong. Or, as Paul memorably put it, "if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith." (1 Cor. 15:14).
As we've seen the Bible is often contradictory and the Gospels are not historically accurate. However, the Christian mistake is compounded by believing that the Gospels are even history--that is that they were written or designed to accurately portray historical truths. The evangelists did not intend their writings to be taken as historical truths. If they could see modern Christianity they would be shocked at the millions of Christians interpreting their writings as historically authoritative. Please don't misinterpret what I am saying. I am not saying the Gospels were entirely made up. I am saying that they were primarily written as myths that forego historical truths (but use many of them) in favor of conveying larger, theological truths that the evangelists believed about Jesus of Nazareth.
The evangelists poured through the Old Testament and found "prophecies" that predicted Jesus' life. After all, there had to be grander reasons why their great teacher had been executed like a common criminal. In the pages of Jewish scripture they found those reasons. They then consciously wrote their gospels in order to retroactively fulfill prophecy. That this happens at all is beyond dispute. Sometimes, while stumbling over themselves to "fulfill" prophecy, they get it horribly wrong: Mark (1:1-3), using shoddy sources, begins his gospel with "prophecy" that mistakenly conflates two Old Testament versus; Isaiah 40:3 and Malachi 3:1. Matthew (1:20-23) uses a mistranslated Old Testament, in which the Hebrew almah, (meaning "young woman") was changed to the Greek parthenos (meaning a physical virgin), as a justification for the immaculate conception. Matthew (21:1-7) so wants to fulfill a "prophecy" from another shoddy source that has combined Isaiah 62:11 and Zachariah 9:9, that he misinterprets the passage--which only speaks of one animal (with subsequent qualifiers)--and has Jesus ride into Jerusalem, in some bizarre act of balance, on two animals. (The other gospel writers are quick to correct this grievous error.) Thus, we begin to see that not only is it a manifest absurdity to believe the Gospels are history, it becomes tenuous to believe they are even accurate.
Each evangelist had his own interpretation. The theology of the evangelists--and specifically their Christology (the nature of Christ)--developed into more grandiose claims as Jesus' life moved further into the past. If you wish to discover this for yourself, I advise you to successively read the Gospel of Mark (almost universally agreed to be the earliest Gospel written between A.D. 65-70) and the Gospel of John (agreed to be the latest Gospel written between A.D. 90-100) in a single sitting. Ask yourself this question; are they telling the same story? In Mark's Gospel, Jesus largely speaks in parables and evasive third-person proclamations about someone called "the Son of Man." In John's Gospel, Jesus tells no parables and spends most of the time talking about himself, his godly status, and what the future will bring.
So, here is a brief lesson in the development of the concept of Jesus as God - the transition from focusing on what Jesus said to focusing on who he was. We will only look at the beginning and the end; Jesus' birth and death. Changing the birth and death of Jesus is the most direct route to altering Jesus' status from one contained within a life to one transcending it.
First the birth narratives. In Mark there is no birth narrative. Jesus' higher metaphysical standing begins when He is chosen at his baptism. This is a story that Jews would have known well. The Old Testament is replete with God adopting servants - sometimes even called "sons" - during a communicative moment in their lives. Mark did not believe Jesus' status differed greatly from God's chosen sons of the past; David, Elijah, Moses, Elisha etc. In fact, in writing for a Jewish audience, he thought it important to strongly align Jesus with the prophets of old. Mark's Christology is thoroughly earthly and - when judged against later alterations - mundane. However, this aspect of Mark is of paramount importance; the earliest Evangelist, the one least removed from Jesus' life, did not know what Christians now "know." It is simply absurd to believe that, of all the things Mark knew about Jesus and with all the time he took to compose and disseminate his gospel, Mark just didn't know that Jesus' birth was a once-in-an-eternity miraculous event. While Mark certainly plays up the figure of Jesus, he was not willing to go that far. When Mark is taken by itself--a gospel lacking a birth narrative and a resurrection narrative (the last twelve verses are almost universally agreed to be later additions), fraught with a persistent "messianic secret" in which no Apostle is able to completely understand Jesus' status, and Jesus' constant, oblique, third person references to a figure called the "son of man" (almost assuredly a reference to Daniel 7:13)--no interpretation even remotely resembling Christianity can be culled from it. Instead Mark fits squarely into well-known traditional Jewish stories of chosen prophets instructing the Jews as to God's will.
For Matthew and Luke this "Jewish Jesus" would not do. Rather than taking a modern viewpoint that the earlier source should be trusted (that is, if you care about historical accuracy which, as I've said, they clearly did not), Matthew and Luke (written c. 80-90) decide to insert important "facts" into Mark's general narrative that raise the status of Jesus to a figure whose scope extends beyond Judaism. With this in mind, doctoring what he said was not as important as doctoring who he was. Thus, they go back to his birth and tell incompatible, incredible, and clearly manufactured stories of Jesus' miraculous birth to a virgin. In doing so they both establish Jesus' higher ontological status than the prophets of old, and - by bending over backwards to place Jesus in Bethleham - they make sure that Jesus satisfies the prophecy that the Messiah was to come from the "city of David."
Looking at the differences between the Synoptics, we are also able to see the solution to the oft-mentioned "problem" of Jesus' missing years. Other than Luke's small story of a twelve-year-old Jesus teaching in the Temple, we have no other (canonical) stories of Jesus between birth and baptism. By comparing Mark with Matthew and Luke, the obvious answer presents itself; such stories didn't exist because no one cared about Jesus until he established a ministry. Jesus' "missing years" are no more bothersome than the "missing years" of the majority of Hebrew prophets.
But John would change everything and one-up all who came before him. Jesus wasn't merely "chosen," "adopted" or created from a miraculous set of circumstances. No, Jesus is something else all together. Feeling it wasn't good enough to go back the the beginning of His ministry or the beginning of His life, John decides to go back to the beginning of time (John 1:1 "In the beginning was the word...") to establish the nature of Jesus. Thus, Jesus has been raised to the ultimate heights; dizzying heights that would have confused and shocked Mark.
Likewise, the death of Jesus changes dramatically throughout the Gospels. The changes (of which there are many more than these) can be summed up in the three different accounts of the last words of Jesus: Mark 15:34 and Matthew 27:46 "My god, my god, why have you forsaken me." Luke 23:46 "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." John 19:30 "It is finished." The development of Christianity is encapsulated in the move from the utterance of pain, ignorance, nonacceptance, and suffering seen in Mark and Matthew to the statement of acceptance, foreknowledge, and peace that is seen in John. These are incompatible interpretations of Jesus. The character in the gospels may have the same name but it is not the same man hanging on the cross.
The Gospels are guides to belief written by believers. This is a horribly unreliable way to learn accurate information. When you already believe "The Truth," distortions that you consciously engage in - that you see as promoting "The Truth" - are not seen as lies, but rather, as efficacious ways of getting "The Truth" to the hearts of readers. We don't know why the evangelists believed as they did, but in the gospels they don't give us the reasons they believe, they give us reasons to believe; an entirely different matter. But we do KNOW they invented things. We KNOW that the theological conception of Jesus changed as the believers grew more distant from his life. What Christians believe most fervently (i.e. Jesus being God, appearing after he died, dying for the sins of the world) are concepts that were developed later. They are concepts that did not exist in the earliest generations of Christian belief. They certainly did not exist when Jesus was alive.
Early Christians invented myths to overcome the "stumbling-block" (1 Cor. 1:23) of the cross. Paul knew that, for the Jews and Gentile Greeks, the execution of Jesus represented a major problem. The "king of the jews" was not supposed to be an executed lowly peasant. The "savior of mankind" was not a common criminal. Over time, theological concepts developed that explained this hang-up. Thus, an executed traitor was turned into a victorious Messiah.
Conclusion: This article is primarily designed to address the reasons that Christians themselves believe. In other words, I consciously stayed away from having catchall reasons that counter any religion - i.e. "because evolution is true," "because of the Big Bang," "the anti-anthropic principle," "because God doesn't exist," etc. None of these abstract issues reach the core of any religion's believers - particularly not Christians. Christians believe for one, over-arching, epistemologically primary reason; the figure of Jesus represents God's will on this Earth and this story is accurately related in the Bible. In the gospel stories they see something miraculous that they believe to be true. After this belief is established the others will fall neatly into line. They will most certainly not believe in evolution, the big bang, the age of the Earth, etc. All of this simply because they think one paltry Jewish techné (not a carpenter, just a craftsman) did some special stuff.
In debating Christians, for the sake of argument, I will concede every point they make - that the universe had to have a beginning, that it had to be designed, that God cares, that evil doesn't exist, etc. - except (generally) those based on the reliability of Christian tradition. A Christian's house of cards is usually built entirely upon this foundation. This is what matters to them and, thus, for these purposes, it is what matters to me.
I am aware of the counterpoints that numerous, well-informed Christians and theologians have made to many of my points. This article isn't meant to be comprehensive but only informative. While none of these reasons is entirely convincing by itself, when taken together they create a strong case for the falsity of Christianity. If not that, then these points at least deserve pause, consideration and research. Most Christians and atheists do not know much of what is enumerated here. If you are a Christian and you are reading this (which I highly doubt) and if you cannot respond to each of these objections with evidence and coherent argumentation--as opposed to with faith and shouting--then you need to start shopping for a new religion.*


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## sen.c (Oct 25, 2011)

Easy Heph, your about to back yourself into a corner you can't get out of. 

There are many Jew's that will never see Heaven Heph which would be Orthodox Jew's, the Messianic Jew's on the other hand will.

According to the Scriptures of the Bible *anyone* who doesn't repent and except the Lord Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour through Faith is going to hell, so that pretty much includes Atheists.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 25, 2011)

sen.c said:


> Easy Heph, your about to back yourself into a corner you can't get out of.
> 
> There are many Jew's that will never see Heaven Heph which would be Orthodox Jew's, the Messianic Jew's on the other hand will.
> 
> According to the Scriptures of the Bible *anyone* who doesn't repent and except the Lord Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour through Faith is going to hell, so that pretty much includes Atheists.


Damn, I'm coming to accept this.

Well that fucking blows. I thought Jesus died for ALL our sins. Well that's simply not the case then huh?


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## sen.c (Oct 25, 2011)

> No. joseph smith made additions and alterations to the bible. It is however based from christianity in a roaming a salty wasteland for too long kind of way


Yeah, o.k. thats wrong the Mormon Religion is not based off of anything you stated. I love when people just assign a value to something because they heard it on tv or some passer by say it.
You couldn't explain the inner workings of the Mormon Religion if you had to, this is why studying something before you start running off at the mouth is important.


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## sen.c (Oct 25, 2011)

No Heph, your not wrong he did die for all man's sin but man still has to except his sacrifice and repent so that the relationship to the Father can be restored.


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## sen.c (Oct 25, 2011)

Nice cut and paste skunkpunk to bad you didn't come up with all that from personal knowledge and research.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 25, 2011)

sen.c said:


> No Heph, your not wrong he did die for all man's sin but man still has to except his sacrifice and repent so that the relationship to the Father can be restored.


Well it still blows. That means many of my atheist friends and family will go to the lake of fire for eternity? Damn that sucks.


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## CinnamonGirl (Oct 25, 2011)

Christianity inspired the most amazing works of Art by Michelangelo, DaVinci, Caravaggio, Raphael, Genatlichi, Fouquet and on and on. . .




-- I'll always love it for that--


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## mindphuk (Oct 25, 2011)

sen.c said:


> Nice cut and paste skunkpunk to bad you didn't come up with all that from personal knowledge and research.


Actually he C & P that from my website. That article is a summary of the major points that I have learned through my own research. You will see some of the same themes that I posted when I countered your bullshit in other threads. How does that fact that skunk didn't write it all himself invalidate any of it?


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 26, 2011)

sen.c said:


> No Heph, your not wrong he did die for all man's sin but man still has to except his sacrifice and repent so that the relationship to the Father can be restored.


does anyone think this whole dyin for out sins is a crock of horse shit? what happened to all the people before jesus came down and after eve's dumb ass ate the apple? did they just all go straight to hell cause he hadnt died for them yet? lol sayin jesus was the son of god is just as bad as sayin santas fat ass came down my chimney every year to give me presents when i was young


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 26, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> does anyone think this whole dyin for out sins is a crock of horse shit? what happened to all the people before jesus came down and after eve's dumb ass ate the apple? did they just all go straight to hell cause he hadnt died for them yet? lol sayin jesus was the son of god is just as bad as sayin santas fat ass came down my chimney every year to give me presents when i was young


..."after eve's dumb ass ate the apple" - funny as hell


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 26, 2011)

heph and olly are just trolls these days , they know they have been shown up on here and all that is left for them to do is troll .


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## olylifter420 (Oct 26, 2011)

baaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


thats about the most reasonable thing you have said ever!


too bad you are still a douche





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> heph and olly are just trolls these days , they know they have been shown up on here and all that is left for them to do is troll .


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## olylifter420 (Oct 26, 2011)

what i really like is when atheists use "oh my God" or when they use hell ie., it hurt like hell...

it is so ironic that these people who dont believe in it and all they do in their life is criticize and belittle peoples beliefs and giving them hell, no pun, for what they believe in is super funny,

oh well, shows true colors


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## Stark Raving (Oct 26, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> heph and olly are just trolls these days , they know they have been shown up on here and all that is left for them to do is troll .


Ya, that's why I pretty much walked away from this and some other threads. Too bad people like this ruin the potential for discussion. There are some theists on here who are reasonable and willing to discuss things without being assholes (eye exagerate comes to mind), but when those two come along they just flood the thread with hate and stupidity.

Such a shame.


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## Hypocrite420 (Oct 26, 2011)

wow. I'm new here, but this is the only thread that I have read all 15 consecutive pages of. I suppose I would call myself an atheist, but I am an atheist that searches for reasons to NOT be atheist. I would LOVE to believe in Heaven and Hell and God and the Devil. I just have not yet found ANY evidence that such exists. It IS absurd. I have a good friend who has literally broken down into tears and cried SEVERAL times because he is just so sad that I am "going to hell" and he is not. My own mother is the same way. She cries every time I say "the lord's name in vain". However, my mother has not always had christian views. She is actually Wiccan. To this day she literally casts spells and shit that she believes work. That is also absurd. Regardless, she has spent alot of time working with recovering alcoholics and drug addicts and we all know what goes on in those meetings. They shove GOD down your throat and tell you that you will NEVER recover until you accept Jesus. So by simply being around these people for so long she actually bought into that garbage and swears her life by it now. Somewhere in this thread I read Revelation 21:8. Those who practice magical arts will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. I wonder what this means for my Wiccan/Christian mother. Even though she preaches Christianity religiously, she is still going to hell for being a witch. No matter what. Hearing that would probably make her reconsider her faith. Just like Heph has been reconsidering his. This shit is ABSURD people. Fucking nuts.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 26, 2011)

yeah im pretty sick of religious people on here , dishing out hatred towards people who happen not to believe in there god , but what should i expect really , its gone on throughout history .
the main problem is mostly with christians on here , they expect , absolute resect for there beliefs and if anyone points out massive flaws in there belief they go off on one .


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 26, 2011)

I like Eye and Heph both...

They're both crazy and believe in some wacky stuff IMO, (lol) but they're good people open to some debate. 


As an atheist, I don't really understand what it's like to have my faith attacked and dismantled by other people. So, I can kind of understand why they're defensive... it probably doesn't help with people constantly calling them names either, and accusing them of being unintelligent.

I don't think either Eye, nor Heph want to change social policy based on their religious beliefs and so if they want to practice whatever it is they practice, then fine. I want to see religious influence taken out of government, not religious influence vanquished like some sort of atheist totalitarian hammer. 

We have to remember as much as we may disagree with people's beliefs, we must uphold their right to have them. That's what a secular government is all about.

Edit: If Christians want to protest things like abortion, that's awesome! They should exercise their right to protest things they don't agree with; but, if one of those Christians decides to run for office in *any* capacity, those views *must* take a back burner to what's best for a secular nation, and too often they don't.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 26, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> I like Eye and Heph both...
> 
> They're both crazy and believe in some wacky stuff IMO, (lol) but they're good people open to some debate.
> 
> ...




......... Good call, I'm totally nuts.  ...and Heph is a warrior.


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## sen.c (Oct 26, 2011)

> You will see some of the same themes that I posted when I countered your bullshit in other threads.


You didn't counter crap my friend, all you ever do is call people idiots for not thinking the way you do. There is not a thing you can come up with that I can't counter as well that is why it is called belief.



> yeah im pretty sick of religious people on here , dishing out hatred towards people who happen not to believe in there god , but what should i expect really , its gone on throughout history .
> the main problem is mostly with christians on here , they expect , absolute resect for there beliefs and if anyone points out massive flaws in there belief they go off on one .


Always the crybaby, as usual. Last time I checked it was the non-christians that started all they drama on the last several threads. What makes your so called "hate" as you would put it any different than the other? You are doing the same thing are you not? I don't expect absolute respect from anyone, and I have yet to see any massive flaws in my belief system. I am a person just like you and deserve no more respect than you or anyone else for that matter. By the way what hatred has been dished out twoards you since your claiming this?

Just a note, if you feel hated it is probably a sign that you know you are doing things you shouldn't and you are just fighting it and trying to justify the reason you do it instead of addressing it. Justifying it is much easier than dealing with it in most cases.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 26, 2011)

sen.c said:


> You didn't counter crap my friend, all you ever do is call people idiots for not thinking the way you do. There is not a thing you can come up with that I can't counter as well that is why it is called belief.
> i would say, not being able to come up with one single little scrap of evidence your god exists , is a massive flaw in your belief system .
> 
> 
> ...



i would say, not being able to come up with one single little scrap of evidence your god exists , is a massive flaw in your belief system .


----------



## Beefbisquit (Oct 26, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ......... Good call, I'm totally nuts.  ...and Heph is a warrior.


I enjoy the discussions I have on here. I've learned some very interesting things, from some very interesting people...


****SHAMELESS PLUG*** ***ALERT****

Check out my new strain reviews and grow in my sig!


----------



## eye exaggerate (Oct 26, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> I enjoy the discussions I have on here. I've learned some very interesting things, from some very interesting people...


...and that's the thing to me. I've stopped NOT talking to people 'just because of "X"' - and it's not that I did stop myself before. What I mean is that I am certain that random conversations with people tell us a bit about life as it goes along.

Anyway, yes, this is an eclectic group.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

Heres one big problem I have...from memory, whats the name of this thread? Its ,"list of things christians have made worse" 

what are we currently discussing? If the christians are right or the non belivers are right.

why are we discussing this? Well, firstly because the christians felt like it was their duty to come in and object to our feelings. But why? Obviously they cant change our mind and their "debating" only turn us off even more. Obviously they arent going to take what we say to heart (with the exception of heph seeing that only christians go to heaven) just like you cant convince a scared child that there is no monster in the closet or under the bed...even if you show them, they still cant shake the feeling.

The problem is...THIS IS NOT A DEBATE OF IF THE CHRISTIANS ARE RIGHT, THIS IS ABOUT WHAT WE DISLIKE ABOUT CHRISTIANS...WHAT IS THERE TO ARGUE WITH ASIDE FROM HISTORICAL DATA?

You christians...seriously...it is not your right to go wherever you want and treat people however you want simply because you feel you are right. I dont walk into a church and start arguing with the congregation. Do you know why? Because that is a place christians have for themselves. 

And if you feel it is your right because of american freedom, remember, our laws side with us in that we are not to be forced to listen to your.shit. Not vice versa. Dont your rules preach the same thing too? To leave us the fuck alone? To work on yourself, not others?


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## Hypocrite420 (Oct 26, 2011)

regardless, this wasn't supposed to be a thread about discussion or who is right or wrong. It was supposed to be a list of things Christianity has made worse. I still want to see that full list


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## Hypocrite420 (Oct 26, 2011)

haha phil thats what im sayin lets get back to the sublect in hand


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

Another thing christians have made worse...(and you'll LOVE this one)...Islam


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 26, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Heres one big problem I have...from memory, whats the name of this thread? Its ,"list of things christians have made worse"


...well, I am adding to that list (and making sure that your thread is one of the things made worse), thus helping to prove your point - considering how right you are this should make perfect sense.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

The ability to objectively interpret scientific data


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 26, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> The ability to objectively interpret scientific data


...is solely atheistic or anti-religion?


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

Things christianity has made worse: Africa and south america and australia. (and for that matter north america, europe and asia) the vote is still out on antarctica. We are interviewing the penguins to see if they too had their culture converted away by the sword.


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## sen.c (Oct 26, 2011)

> Well, firstly because the christians felt like it was their duty to come in and object to our feelings. But why? Obviously they cant change our mind and their "debating" only turn us off even more. Obviously they arent going to take what we say to heart (with the exception of heph seeing that only christians go to heaven) just like you cant convince a scared child that there is no monster in the closet or under the bed...even if you show them, they still cant shake the feeling.


The subject at hand was just you being a tool, and out of spite starting a thread that would "bait" someone to jump in and defend their beliefs. No need to sugar coat it and try to not look like the tool you are, just saying own your BS if you are gonna post it be honest about it.

So back to the topic, first you need to know and understand what a true Christian is before you start saying what they have done wrong. Besides that I am sure that there is a much longer list of what non believers have ruined.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...is solely atheistic or anti-religion?


Yes. Scien,e uses empirical data to enterpret information, there is no room in science, true science at least, for assumptions made and influenced by beliefs which exist without empirical data or proof. It is part of the inherrant paradigm of science.

Religion has inserted slivers of ass headedness into science and also has rebuked science on numerous occasions due to it being blasphemous. Think stem cell research, heliocentric universe theory, and biological evolution


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

sen.c said:


> The subject at hand was just you being a tool, and out of spite starting a thread that would "bait" someone to jump in and defend their beliefs. No need to sugar coat it and try to not look like the tool you are, just saying own your BS if you are gonna post it be honest about it.
> 
> So back to the topic, first you need to know and understand what a true Christian is before you start saying what they have done wrong. Besides that I am sure that there is a much longer list of what non believers have ruined.


Cool. Start a thread, thats a different list.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

sen.c said:


> The subject at hand was just you being a tool, and out of spite starting a thread that would "bait" someone to jump in and defend their beliefs. No need to sugar coat it and try to not look like the tool you are, just saying own your BS if you are gonna post it be honest about it.
> 
> So back to the topic, first you need to know and understand what a true Christian is before you start saying what they have done wrong. Besides that I am sure that there is a much longer list of what non believers have ruined.


And it wasnt bait. You werent intended to chase it down, however, being the predator that you are, you just couldnt resist. Lets call it what it is as you say


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## sen.c (Oct 26, 2011)

> there is no room in science, true science at least, for assumptions made and influenced by beliefs which exist without empirical data or proof


Dude that statement just proves how much you really understand about it, truly amazing. What is funny is you consider us "ass headed" because we do exactly what science expects us to do and that is question the validity of a claim but it is not fair if we do it.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 26, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Yes. Scien,e uses empirical data to enterpret information, there is no room in science, true science at least, for assumptions made and influenced by beliefs which exist without empirical data or proof. It is part of the inherrant paradigm of science.
> 
> Religion has inserted slivers of ass headedness into science and also has rebuked science on numerous occasions due to it being blasphemous. Think stem cell research, heliocentric universe theory, and biological evolution


...ass-headedness in science has little to do with christians. You are apparently a scientist, yes? (sorry, couldn't help that one  )

...christian scientists, the vatican, et al have the same equipment that 'other' scientists do. It's in perspective that we have differences. (At one time) the vatican had the largest telescope in operation. But why? Must be another one of those 'phallicies'.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 26, 2011)

very true brother, these tools on here are extremely stupid and ignorant. i would say the only atheist on here i respect is pimppot and mindphuk. the rest are fucking retards trying to prove what they have proved already, that they feel nothing but hate for people who believe in God. 

they are fools and extremely funny...

non believers have ruined pretty much the most respectable thing, they go and post up at soldiers funerals and bash these brave soldiers for what they did for our country





sen.c said:


> The subject at hand was just you being a tool, and out of spite starting a thread that would "bait" someone to jump in and defend their beliefs. No need to sugar coat it and try to not look like the tool you are, just saying own your BS if you are gonna post it be honest about it.
> 
> So back to the topic, first you need to know and understand what a true Christian is before you start saying what they have done wrong. Besides that I am sure that there is a much longer list of what non believers have ruined.


----------



## olylifter420 (Oct 26, 2011)

straw man





Filthy Phil said:


> And it wasnt bait. You werent intended to chase it down, however, being the predator that you are, you just couldnt resist. Lets call it what it is as you say


----------



## sen.c (Oct 26, 2011)

Yeah let's start a new list, What non-believers have ruined.

How about this country as a start.......

If you knew half of what you thought you might actually be dangerous. Christianity played a major role in the founding of this country. What do you have other than destroying what made this country great.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

sen.c said:


> Dude that statement just proves how much you really understand about it, truly amazing. What is funny is you consider us "ass headed" because we do exactly what science expects us to do and that is question the validity of a claim but it is not fair if we do it.


No, science asks you to use testing methods which can be replicateed, observable and measureable phenomino and methods, and find causal information, not corrolary evidence


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...ass-headedness in science has little to do with christians. You are apparently a scientist, yes? (sorry, couldn't help that one  )
> 
> ...christian scientists, the vatican, et al have the same equipment that 'other' scientists do. It's in perspective that we have differences. (At one time) the vatican had the largest telescope in operation. But why? Must be another one of those 'phallicies'.


Interesting then that they threatened to burn galeleo for inventing and promoting them as a charge of blasphemy


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## massah (Oct 26, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...ass-headedness in science has little to do with christians. You are apparently a scientist, yes? (sorry, couldn't help that one  )
> 
> ...christian scientists, the vatican, et al have the same equipment that 'other' scientists do. It's in perspective that we have differences. (At one time) the vatican had the largest telescope in operation. But why? Must be another one of those 'phallicies'.


christian scientists is an oxymoron...this will tell you how your bible and your "faith" was created. watch this:
[video=youtube;oZgT1SRcrKE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZgT1SRcrKE[/video]


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## olylifter420 (Oct 26, 2011)

atheists caused the sunami that ravaged japan


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## massah (Oct 26, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> atheists caused the sunami that ravaged japan


I thought the gays did that....oh wait no that was some earthquake....


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 26, 2011)

massah said:


> christian scientists is an oxymoron...this will tell you how your bible and your "faith" was created. watch this:


...dude, I've seen this and other docs like it... You think you're smart posting it. Do you think the sheeple don't know where their faith comes from? But I do have to admit, there are some dickheads that talk about it, still.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 26, 2011)

atheists also caused the abuse of children by priests by influencing these priests thinking and making them think their beliefs were all lies, and in attempt to get back God they did those nasty acts 





massah said:


> I thought the gays did that....oh wait no that was some earthquake....


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## massah (Oct 26, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> atheists also caused the abuse of children by priests by influencing these priests thinking and making them think their beliefs were all lies, and in attempt to get back God they did those nasty acts


oh...my...god...you cannot seriously believe this...that HAS to be a troll...


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## olylifter420 (Oct 26, 2011)

there you go again, an atheist using omg!!!!! 

no, im pretty sure that is true





massah said:


> oh...my...god...you cannot seriously believe this...that HAS to be a troll...


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## mindphuk (Oct 26, 2011)

sen.c said:


> You didn't counter crap my friend, all you ever do is call people idiots for not thinking the way you do. There is not a thing you can come up with that I can't counter as well that is why it is called belief.


So you lie in order to support your position...very Xian of you.

You cannot point to one post where I call anyone an idiot for not thinking the way I do, I don't do that. Argumentation is not accusation or belittlement or trying to force a viewpoint as potpimp and other theists seems to think. Argumentation and debate are ways to persuade and change minds voluntarily. It can expose sloppy thinking and cause some people to re-examine their own beliefs. 

When I spoke of things I countered, I am talking about facts not beliefs. Such as the fact that the gospel writers were not witnesses to what they wrote about and there are clear embellishments and liberties taken with their writings, including mistranslating OT verses and trying to make them fit as a messianic prophecy where no single Hebrew reading individual would have made that mistake. You can pretend you countered those facts but you would be wrong.


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## massah (Oct 26, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> there you go again, an atheist using omg!!!!!
> 
> no, im pretty sure that is true


you avoided the statement entirely...good job


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## sen.c (Oct 26, 2011)

[video=youtube;LK8sxngSWaU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK8sxngSWaU[/video]


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## sen.c (Oct 26, 2011)

> When I spoke of things I countered, I am talking about facts not beliefs. Such as the fact that the gospel writers were not witnesses to what they wrote about and there are clear embellishments and liberties taken with their writings, including mistranslating OT verses and trying to make them fit as a messianic prophecy where no single Hebrew reading individual would have made that mistake. You can pretend you countered those facts but you would be wrong.


You know so much don't you? Well you talk about things being re-translated to fit prophecy, and you say no one was witness to what they write about and you expect me to take you seriously. I guess that people that physically walked with Jesus and wrote about the teachings the recieved like Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Steven, Thomas and the list goes on never exsisted. 

This talk about re-translated to fit prophecy stuff is silly. Just because you discredit documented history it is o.k. but if we discredit science and foolish remarks you make then we are just dumb christians.

By the way trying to tell the writer of a book what he ment when he wrote it sounds pretty silly to me but I can only speak for myself because I failed mind reading in school.

Oh and by the way if the mistranslated word you are reffering to is "ALMAH" you should probably go ahead and tell everyone the full deffinition and also let them know what the Greek translation was also to better understand the validity behind the use of the word "ALMAH."


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 26, 2011)

so can we add rollitup to the list of things they ruin lol


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## Stark Raving (Oct 26, 2011)

Am I the only one who noticed that when a moderator (christian moderator I might add) started a thread and the conversation was derailed, there was action taken. (He closed his own thread). But it's all fine and dandy that this one was hijacked. I wonder why that is. Biased mod? Abuse of mod privledges? Nah, couldn't be.


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## sen.c (Oct 26, 2011)

What is wrong with shutting down your own thread Christian or not if you decide it is getting out of hand you have the choice of shutting it down. I am sure if the OP decides to shut this one down for whatever reason it is his call not anyone elses.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 26, 2011)

potpimp has made it clear he is an atheist you fool... there go those atheists, changing things again, lol





Stark Raving said:


> Am I the only one who noticed that when a moderator (christian moderator I might add) started a thread and the conversation was derailed, there was action taken. (He closed his own thread). But it's all fine and dandy that this one was hijacked. I wonder why that is. Biased mod? Abuse of mod privledges? Nah, couldn't be.


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## Stark Raving (Oct 26, 2011)

Meh, atheist, christian, point is it's a crappy thing to do. What if the OP of this thread decides that since it's "his" thread, he wants all off topic posts deleted? I know you'd love to have yet another thing to demonize atheists for, but that's just you being a hateful bigot again.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 26, 2011)

sundays .......christianity definately ruined sundays .


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## olylifter420 (Oct 26, 2011)

yeah man, whatever... you have nothing better to say but to blame people that have nothing to do with what you hate... me being a bigot is like saying you are the president, so dont go pointing fingers when those fingers also apply to you




Stark Raving said:


> Meh, atheist, christian, point is it's a crappy thing to do. What if the OP of this thread decides that since it's "his" thread, he wants all off topic posts deleted? I know you'd love to have yet another thing to demonize atheists for, but that's just you being a hateful bigot again.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 26, 2011)

hmmm, funny how you care about sunday when you are a dumb atheist. dont hate everything religion?







ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> sundays .......christianity definately ruined sundays .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 26, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> hmmm, funny how you care about sunday when you are a dumb atheist. dont hate everything religion?


 why am i 'dumb' for being an athiest ? its you who makes the outlandish claims of a higher being that created everything in a few days , and with not one scrap of evidence , my lack of belief in your rediculous claims , does not make me dumb .
And i love sundays , chilling out smoking good green , i just hate all the religious crap on the telly , and the shops all being shut .Sunday to me is the same as a saturday , a day off work .


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## msackal (Oct 26, 2011)

I hate to say this BUT the only reason christianity and it's prediseser Catholisisum, have stayed around so long is that it has a very large P/R campain.
And look at all the feed this and save that thats all done by the Christian church. it's the dark ages all over again, if you say you don't believe in what they are selling then they won't leave you alone.(Let's Pray About This)STOP!!!!


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 26, 2011)

heres one for you olly ...........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R6aFsxalM8


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## Hypocrite420 (Oct 26, 2011)

Why the fuck are you guys just trying to piss each other off? Is that your only motive of coming on this thread? Because AGAIN, this thread is labeled: List of things Christianity has made worse. So why don't you guys quit pointing fingers at who is right or wrong about shit and lets hear some more things that Christianity has made worse. I'll start it back up by adding: Christianity has made the lives of everyone (including themselves) worse.  On that note I'm gonna rip a GB


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## cannabineer (Oct 26, 2011)

msackal said:


> I hate to say this BUT the only reason christianity and it's prediseser Catholisisum, have stayed around so long is that it has a very large P/R campain.
> And look at all the feed this and save that thats all done by the Christian church. it's the dark ages all over again, if you say you don't believe in what they are selling then they won't leave you alone.(Let's Pray About This)STOP!!!!


I will say this for the Church ... it did, in its way, promote literacy. cn


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> I will say this for the Church ... it did, in its way, promote literacy. cn


Not really...the chirch shuned literacy amongst the commoners which is why the bible was for hundreds of years printed only in latin so they couldnt read it. King james though put it into understandable form.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

So since I am the thread starter, does that mean I can close the thread if I want? Or kick people out? I dont want to, just curious what my options are...

Another thing chriatians have made worse, our environment. Given their predisposition to believing inthe rapture, they feel they will not have to deal with the world left behing. This assumptio, along with the thoughtthat the world and everything in it was created for our consumption has aided the generations of environmental irresponsibility.


Eat shit christians.


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 26, 2011)

during the dark and middle ages christianity was just away of gaining political power by persecuting non-believers.(i want his land,ill just spread rumors of his heresy) Not to mention the millions of other people percieved as savages.But regardless of all this,im still christian. You know why? because all these events were caused by mortal man and his ignorance,not my God or Messiah,so to the o.p instead of being mad at christians you should be hating greedy medevil european kings and queens (or catholics) lol. and explain to me how christianity makes your life harder except for the annoying door 2 door(ers) are all u atheist being accused of heresy by obama?


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 26, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> So since I am the thread starter, does that mean I can close the thread if I want? Or kick people out? I dont want to, just curious what my options are...
> 
> Another thing chriatians have made worse, our environment. Given their predisposition to believing inthe rapture, they feel they will not have to deal with the world left behing. This assumptio, along with the thoughtthat the world and everything in it was created for our consumption has aided the generations of environmental irresponsibility.
> 
> ...


 Eat shit???well i do fell like poppin some caps...oh wait,shrooms and marijuana are frowned upon by my god even though he created them! i was lmcao (laughing my christian ass off) when i read a post on this thread stating that lol whoever posted up shrooms and MJ are drugs leave rollitup,you apparently cant tell difference between drugs,plants,and fungi


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## olylifter420 (Oct 26, 2011)

Im smart enough to know that you all mainly, tsh, you and some other dumb atheists are way too funny to be serious with. I respected you, but all you do ist he same as those you despise. In all sincerity do you think it matters if i live in this so called "bubble"?

This "bubble" despises assholes like you and tsh for talking shit about those who believe in any God... Fuck you for thinking only your way is supreme...

Tsh, you are fucking stupid and there aint much more i can say.

Trying to rain shit on innocent believers who mind there business doing nothing of which you accuse us of doing... Douche bag





Heisenberg said:


> Despite what you think of oly, he is smart enough to push buttons. One time he pushed a button labeled "dumb atheist' and it got a rise out of somebody. He's discovered several other buttons since then and now he just keeps mashing them until one of them works. Oly lives in a bubble where buttons are important while rationality and integrity take a back seat. Nothing gets in the bubble and, inside, oly is able to make up anything he wants as he goes along and feels self-gratified for doing it. Hypocrisy is a tradition for oly, a fundamental virtue that allows him to sustain his bubble.


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 26, 2011)

and ill give it to you most christians force their beliefs on other people.But, it seems like more atheist on this site try to force their "non-beliefs" on other people.even if theirs no proof of GOD all i need is my faith,with all this evil in the world its more rational to believe there is one true holy essence.All need be said everyone smoke a joint,good-nite.

p.s; title of this thread should be Hypocrites calling Hypocrites Hypocrites lol. Maybe if everyone wasnt trying to rip everyone a new one..this couldve been a very intresting thread


----------



## sen.c (Oct 26, 2011)

> Not really...the chirch shuned literacy amongst the commoners which is why the bible was for hundreds of years printed only in latin so they couldnt read it. King james though put it into understandable form.


Just a note, but Martin Luther who was a Catholic that saw the problems based in Catholisism wrote a thesis that basically called out the Catholic Church for being unbiblical. See the Catholic Church at the time (Dark Ages) used the illiteracy 
of the pesants as a form of control over them and they would tell them only what they wanted them to know to further their cause. The Catholic Church at the time would sell "Indulgences" which basically meant according to what you paid you could go out and sin and they would forgive you for it. Once Martin Luther called them out he made the decision to translate the Bible into another language so that the peasants could read first hand and see for themselves what the Bible said in comparision to what the church had been telling them.

Kinda put into laymans terms but from some of your goofy statements I figured it would be best this way, you should really do some research it doesn't mean you have to believe it but at least you will understand what brought about beliefs and trains of thought.



> Another thing chriatians have made worse, our environment. Given their predisposition to believing inthe rapture, they feel they will not have to deal with the world left behing. This assumptio, along with the thoughtthat the world and everything in it was created for our consumption has aided the generations of environmental irresponsibility.


Really, now your really grasping for straws. Profit motive is the problem you are talking about but I guess you don't understand that either.


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## cannabineer (Oct 26, 2011)

ziggittyzag420 said:


> Eat shit???well i do fell like poppin some caps...oh wait,shrooms and marijuana are frowned upon by my god even though he created them! i was lmcao (laughing my christian ass off) when i read a post on this thread stating that lol whoever posted up shrooms and MJ are drugs leave rollitup,you apparently cant tell difference between drugs,plants,and fungi


A drug is any compound that causes a physiological change not associated with nutrition. A psychotrope is a member of that subset of drugs that cause a change in state of mind. As psychotropes, dank and shroomies are most definitely drugs. 
In re Christanity/God frowning on drugs ... that is oh so open to interpretation. cn


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 26, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> So since I am the thread starter, does that mean I can close the thread if I want? Or kick people out? I dont want to, just curious what my options are...
> 
> Another thing chriatians have made worse, our environment. Given their predisposition to believing inthe rapture, they feel they will not have to deal with the world left behing. This assumptio, along with the thoughtthat the world and everything in it was created for our consumption has aided the generations of environmental irresponsibility.
> 
> ...


lol you came up with that one on your own


----------



## mindphuk (Oct 26, 2011)

sen.c said:


> You know so much don't you? Well you talk about things being re-translated to fit prophecy, and you say no one was witness to what they write about and you expect me to take you seriously. I guess that people that physically walked with Jesus and wrote about the teachings the recieved like Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Steven, Thomas and the list goes on never exsisted.
> 
> This talk about re-translated to fit prophecy stuff is silly. Just because you discredit documented history it is o.k. but if we discredit science and foolish remarks you make then we are just dumb christians.
> 
> ...


You actually think the gospels were written by witnesses? You are a fool.


----------



## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 26, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> A drug is any compound that causes a physiological change not associated with nutrition. A psychotrope is a member of that subset of drugs that cause a change in state of mind. As psychotropes, dank and shroomies are most definitely drugs.
> In re Christanity/God frowning on drugs ... that is oh so open to interpretation. cn


i was under the impression that Drugs were man made like Meth, Herion, Oxycodone etc. but if im wrong i sincerly apologize


----------



## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

sen.c said:


> Just a note, but Martin Luther who was a Catholic that saw the problems based in Catholisism wrote a thesis that basically called out the Catholic Church for being unbiblical. See the Catholic Church at the time (Dark Ages) used the illiteracy
> of the pesants as a form of control over them and they would tell them only what they wanted them to know to further their cause. The Catholic Church at the time would sell "Indulgences" which basically meant according to what you paid you could go out and sin and they would forgive you for it. Once Martin Luther called them out he made the decision to translate the Bible into another language so that the peasants could read first hand and see for themselves what the Bible said in comparision to what the church had been telling them.
> 
> Kinda put into laymans terms but from some of your goofy statements I figured it would be best this way, you should really do some research it doesn't mean you have to believe it but at least you will understand what brought about beliefs and trains of thought.
> ...


Yes, the nailing of the thesises, you do understand that it isnt only christians who know the history and bible right? Due to the widespread indoctrination, most of us know these things. What Martin Luther was really aiming at was that a person didnt need a priest to communicate to god throuugh. A person had the ability to commune with god on their own. And yes, part of this was also saying a person could read and enterpret the bible on their own. He was not the translator, neither was king james directly, but through his order common language was approached in the Bible.

But, considering it has been a while sine I did my 17 years of research, I could be wrong.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

Another thing christianity has made worse, our education system. The years of resistance toward teaching certain theories, obstruction of literature, resistance toward sexual education, it is one of the reasons america has one of the worst educational systems in the first world.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

And I cant prove it, but I'd be willing to think there would be a hell of a lot more orgies and shit if there werent christians. Hahaha


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

ziggittyzag420 said:


> and ill give it to you most christians force their beliefs on other people.But, it seems like more atheist on this site try to force their "non-beliefs" on other people.even if theirs no proof of GOD all i need is my faith,with all this evil in the world its more rational to believe there is one true holy essence.All need be said everyone smoke a joint,good-nite.
> 
> p.s; title of this thread should be Hypocrites calling Hypocrites Hypocrites lol. Maybe if everyone wasnt trying to rip everyone a new one..this couldve been a very intresting thread


Really? You dont see me in "god is great " or "i'd suck jesus's cock if I could" threads telling you why I think you're wrong...suck away, and dont foget the taint


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## cannabineer (Oct 26, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Not really...the chirch shuned literacy amongst the commoners which is why the bible was for hundreds of years printed only in latin so they couldnt read it. King james though put it into understandable form.


Even so, during Medieval times the folks who husbanded the libraries and copied (and wrote most) texts were monks. I was thinking primarily of that. 
My principal motive for posting was to suggest, however indirectly, that one of the axioms of effective communication is the correct use of language. In this Internet age, that message leaves me as a voice in the wilderness, crying "Redact!" cn


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## sen.c (Oct 26, 2011)

> You actually think the gospels were written by witnesses? You are a fool.


Yes actually I do think that many books of the Bible were originally written by witnesses. That is how history was passed down at that time was it not? The people of those times chronicled through writing 
so that there would be historical data of the time and events. In those times that is how people keep records to pass on to future generations for teaching.

Do you think the "Big Bang" and "Evolution" theories were written by witnesses?

Not to get off subject, but rather to prove again that in your eyes it is always the "Christians" that are fools according to you but don't you prescribe to those theories? So in essence what does that make you?


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 26, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Really? You dont see me in "god is great " or "i'd suck jesus's cock if I could" threads telling you why I think you're wrong...suck away, and dont foget the taint


 well you know SO MUCH about religon and christianity, you shouldve known hundreds of angry christians would flood in your thread man,and maybe if you werent being such an ignorant dick who just hates christianity for the hell of it ,your thread wouldve gone more smoothly lol


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## sen.c (Oct 26, 2011)

> King james though put it into understandable form.


Nope wrong again, there were many that came before King James that translated to the English language as well as many others. Probably at least 16 going back to 1380 with John Wycliffe.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 26, 2011)

Education, without a doubt.

Arrogance, self explanitory.

(goes along with arrogance) Self righteousness

Government/Politics, has been completely hijacked

Hugs (Christian "side hug" ROFL!!)

Environment

Movies/censorship, Passion of the Christ..

Dry county Sunday's

..


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## wannabe grower (Oct 26, 2011)

And just how many folks do you think knew how to read and write in the days of Christ? Not many. And guess what. If I were a slave who heard about about a God who loved his people and would give them eternal life in Heaven after they died off of our world, I'd give it a shot too. Why do you think that slaves brought from Africa to the US by force and made slaves adopted Christianity so readily?


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 26, 2011)

in the end id die a christian rather than god-less,and sen.c has a point,why do you think The bigbang and Evolution are just theories?because they have not been proved XP


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 26, 2011)

sen.c said:


> Yes actually I do think that many books of the Bible were originally written by witnesses. That is how history was passed down at that time was it not? The people of those times chronicled through writing
> so that there would be historical data of the time and events. In those times that is how people keep records to pass on to future generations for teaching.
> 
> Do you think the "Big Bang" and "Evolution" theories were written by witnesses?
> ...


Hearsay is not an accurate way to get to the truth, I'm confused why you would think it is. 

Furthermore, are murder detectives crazy for believing a murder took place when they arrive on the scene after the fact or is it only logical to conclude a murder took place by witnessing it first hand?


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## sen.c (Oct 26, 2011)

> And just how many folks do you think knew how to read and write in the days of Christ?


Quite a few actually.



> Why do you think that slaves brought from Africa to the US by force and made slaves adopted Christianity so readily?


I don't know, why don't you grace us with your vast knowledge of something you obviously know nothing about.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 26, 2011)

ziggittyzag420 said:


> in the end id die a christian rather than god-less,and sen.c has a point,why do you think The bigbang and Evolution are just theories?because they have not been proved XP


You say 'just theories' as if you don't know the meaning of the word in a scientific context. They're both extensively covered ideas supported by mountains of evidence that lead us to consistent conclusions when the data is analyzed. In contrast, 'intelligent design' does not qualify as a scientific theory, just a really dumb idea.

Hope that cleared a little bit up for you.


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## wannabe grower (Oct 26, 2011)

Where do you obtain your knowledge? "Quite a few actually"? If that's so, why did only the clergy teach what the Bible meant until the 15th or 16th century in Europe? The Huegonauts<sp> in France started to read and interpret the Bible themselves and were labeled heretics for daring to do so. The Bible and all religion for that matter is simply a way for the rich and educated to control the masses for their own gain.


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## sen.c (Oct 26, 2011)

> Hearsay is not an accurate way to get to the truth, I'm confused why you would think it is.


Ahh, my old friend Padawan. There is a difference in chronicled writing and verbal story telling you and I both know that.



> Furthermore, are murder detectives crazy for believing a murder took place when they arrive on the scene after the fact or is it only logical to conclude a murder took place by witnessing it first hand?


Actually, yes they could be crazy it might have been a suicide.

Anyway, I was just countering a statement and it is quite obvious that some of the things brought up in this thread have no tangible truth or history behind them just but rather ignorant views with noting more to back it up.


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 26, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Education, without a doubt.
> 
> Arrogance, self explanitory.
> 
> ...


 i must say im quite tired of being called arrogant and self righteous by atheist who apparently are also arrogant and self righteous:}


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## wannabe grower (Oct 26, 2011)

In the end, if the Christians are correct we end up in boxes with worms eating our faces and they go to Heaven. If we're correct, we both (Christians and Aethiest/Agnostics)end up in boxes with worms eating our faces. I guess either way the worms win.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 26, 2011)

what they need is a big ass mirror





ziggittyzag420 said:


> i must say im quite tired of being called arrogant and self righteous by atheist who apparently are also arrogant and self righteous:}


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## sen.c (Oct 26, 2011)

> Where do you obtain your knowledge? "Quite a few actually"? If that's so, why did only the clergy teach what the Bible meant until the 15th or 16th century in Europe? The Huegonauts<sp> in France started to read and interpret the Bible themselves and were labeled heretics for daring to do so. The Bible and all religion for that matter is simply a way for the rich and educated to control the masses for their own gain.


You are way off the English were reading it in their language in the latter 1300's again I point you to John Wycliffe.

The Catholic Church, was using religion to control people by withholding the text and using it to get what they wanted. Don't confuse people abusing their power with what God wanted, that is far from the truth. That is no different than saying all cops are bad because of a few bad apples that abuse their power. For this very reason the Catholic Church called them heretics in order to persecute and silence them so that they could continue to abuse their power.


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 26, 2011)

wannabe grower said:


> Where do you obtain your knowledge? "Quite a few actually"? If that's so, why did only the clergy teach what the Bible meant until the 15th or 16th century in Europe? The Huegonauts<sp> in France started to read and interpret the Bible themselves and were labeled heretics for daring to do so. The Bible and all religion for that matter is simply a way for the rich and educated to control the masses for their own gain.


exactly!but my point is religon wasnt created to do so,humans used religon for their own personal gain,and the actions of a few shoulnt be perceived as the actions of all.So dont label me as an arrogant christian because of arrogant christians hundreds of years ago


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

ziggittyzag420 said:


> well you know SO MUCH about religon and christianity, you shouldve known hundreds of angry christians would flood in your thread man,and maybe if you werent being such an ignorant dick who just hates christianity for the hell of it ,your thread wouldve gone more smoothly lol


So are you saying then that if my oppinion wasore palatable to christians then they wouldnt have made such a problem of this thread. Like if I believe what they believe everything would have been cool, otherwise hundreds on angry christians will flood in and make a problem?

What exactly makes me ignorant? A dick, sure, thats not a huge stretch, but why ignorant. Is it because I dont believe what you believe?


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## wannabe grower (Oct 26, 2011)

So explain why the Bible was written over several centuries by many different people and certain texts were excluded because they didn't fit the criteia of the current leaders of the time? Really arguing these points is moot because I'll never change your mind and you certainly aren't going to change mine. We just have to respectfully agree to disagree.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 26, 2011)

> .So dont label me as an arrogant christian because of arrogant christians hundreds of years ago


they always do this brother, they have been doing that since way back. they never seem to get through their small brain...

they tell me the same things and that im in a ''bubble'' of my own, but what they lack to see is that what i have told them, others have told them before and i as i have seen even to this day the same things i would tell... after a long while, and after i reconsidered my stance on evolution, they still didnt and have not considered any believers side.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 26, 2011)

tell me why science books have changed as well? 

they change because as we have advanced our understanding of the material enhances and as such, change the text itself.





wannabe grower said:


> So explain why the Bible was written over several centuries by many different people and certain texts were excluded because they didn't fit the criteia of the current leaders of the time? Really arguing these points is moot because I'll never change your mind and you certainly aren't going to change mine. We just have to respectfully agree to disagree.


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## sen.c (Oct 26, 2011)

> What exactly makes me ignorant? A dick, sure, thats not a huge stretch, but why ignorant. Is it because I dont believe what you believe?


No, what makes you ignorant is your one sided view and inability to even consider the other sides argument and studying it so you can come to a logical conclusion.


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## wannabe grower (Oct 26, 2011)

How does anyone know what God wants them to do? Do you propose that God speaks directly to you? Is there a burning bush in your yard? I think it's just the burning bush in your mouth that's making you think these things. I for one don't attack Christianity specifically, I think all religions are equally worthless.


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## sen.c (Oct 26, 2011)

> How does anyone know what God wants them to do?


You repent and read his word. Believe it or not God has given us a standard of worship.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 26, 2011)

thank you man, this has been my point since a long time ago... us believers have the right to consider both sides and we often do... these guys on the other hand, they hold on to things from the past...

that is freaking stupid, its like holding all germans still accountable for the atrocities of ww2

or the spaniards for extinguishing the aztecs or incas or myans

or the native americans for hunting too many buffalo






sen.c said:


> No, what makes you ignorant is your one sided view and inability to even consider the other sides argument and studying it so you can come to a logical conclusion.


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 26, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> You say 'just theories' as if you don't know the meaning of the word in a scientific context. They're both extensively covered ideas supported by mountains of evidence that lead us to consistent conclusions when the data is analyzed. In contrast, 'intelligent design' does not qualify as a scientific theory, just a really dumb idea.
> 
> Hope that cleared a little bit up for you.


 exactly,theyre not scientific fact are they?nope,theyre scientific theories,with evidence made by assumptions based on observations,explain to me how evolution and the big bang theory can be proved? i want you to post up facts that 100% prove they happened


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

..[/QUOTE]



olylifter420 said:


> they always do this brother, they have been doing that since way back. they never seem to get through their small brain...
> 
> they tell me the same things and that im in a ''bubble'' of my own, but what they lack to see is that what i have told them, others have told them before and i as i have seen even to this day the same things i would tell... after a long while, and after i reconsidered my stance on evolution, they still didnt and have not considered any believers side.


Perhaps you dont consider that a lot of used to be christians. We believe what we believe BECAUSE we have considered it all. Perhaps if I had learned less of it than I did I might still believe it. We dont disbelive because of lack of exposure or education in christianity, but because of our exposure and education in christianity. Does that make sense at all?


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

sen.c said:


> You repent and read his word. Believe it or not God has given us a standard of worship.


Hahaha you sound like that crazy bum on the corner. REPENT!!


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## wannabe grower (Oct 26, 2011)

I guess you 2 can sit here and pat each others backs for a while then. You've won amongst yourselves. Nice job.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 26, 2011)

why would it not make sense? It makes complete sense man... you are entitled to your opinion always and i respect what you say and what you have experienced. There is no problem in what you base your choices on, the only thing that bothers me and other believers is that atheists' come on here saying that all we do is "spew our diatribe and beliefs on them" when have done nothing of that nature. 






Filthy Phil said:


> ..




Perhaps you dont consider that a lot of used to be christians. We believe what we believe BECAUSE we have considered it all. Perhaps if I had learned less of it than I did I might still believe it. We dont disbelive because of lack of exposure or education in christianity, but because of our exposure and education in christianity. Does that make sense at all?[/QUOTE]


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## wannabe grower (Oct 26, 2011)

I gotta keep coming back here. Which God has given us these things again? The Christian one, Budda, Mohammed, Ganesh? There are a lot of different cultures in this world and you're trying to say that yours is the "right" one. That's where you guys always fall flat. Even amongst Christian based religions there are rifts and splits. If you can't even get it right amongst yourselves how can you expect others to come to you?


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 26, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> they always do this brother, they have been doing that since way back. they never seem to get through their small brain...
> 
> they tell me the same things and that im in a ''bubble'' of my own, but what they lack to see is that what i have told them, others have told them before and i as i have seen even to this day the same things i would tell... after a long while, and after i reconsidered my stance on evolution, they still didnt and have not considered any believers side.


lol do what im doing man,smoke some green and laugh at all there halfassed "theories" they try throwing in your face haha and pray to god for their souls to be saved


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> thank you man, this has been my point since a long time ago... us believers have the right to consider both sides and we often do... these guys on the other hand, they hold on to things from the past...
> 
> that is freaking stupid, its like holding all germans still accountable for the atrocities of ww2
> 
> ...


Yes, we do hold onto things from the past, its called history. Learn more.

We did hold Germans accountable, there were trials for years. And we deprived them of military for decades. They were punished. Also, ask a german, people still give them shit.

And we do blame the spaniards for the eradication of whole cultures

And the native americans didnt hunt too many buffalo, it was the hunting parties that drove by on trains shooting them, later harbeating humps and tongues.

Now, we hold you accountable for a thousand years of bullshit oppression. Perhaps its not fair, but go cry to the native americans or mexicans about how its not fair, they'll have a few things to discuss that are also, not fair


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 26, 2011)

wannabe grower said:


> I gotta keep coming back here. Which God has given us these things again? The Christian one, Budda, Mohammed, Ganesh? There are a lot of different cultures in this world and you're trying to say that yours is the "right" one. That's where you guys always fall flat. Even amongst Christian based religions there are rifts and splits. If you can't even get it right amongst yourselves how can you expect others to come to you?


 mohammeds a so called "messiah" buddhas a person who has very meaningful teachings,Ganesh has multiplegods i assume.if my religons so full of rifts,than why is christiany and muzlim the two biggest religons in the world,and we both believe in the same god,as for judaism. The only difference between the 3 is the messiahs and some teachings


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## sen.c (Oct 26, 2011)

> Perhaps you dont consider that a lot of used to be christians. We believe what we believe BECAUSE we have considered it all. Perhaps if I had learned less of it than I did I might still believe it. We dont disbelive because of lack of exposure or education in christianity, but because of our exposure and education in christianity. Does that make sense at all?


Classic they always say this, have you ever though that you never were truly regenerate of heart to begin with and as soon as "Church" preached or teached something that you didn't like you just ran rather than deal with the issue.
Besides your statements are enough to prove that you didn't consider it all that is why you find yourself in this situation.



> Now, we hold you accountable for a thousand years of bullshit oppression. Perhaps its not fair, but go cry to the native americans or mexicans about how its not fair, they'll have a few things to discuss that are also, not fair


Dude that is played out, when were you ever opressed, give me a break. Last time I checked there has always been freedom of religion here in the United States so there went your well thought statement. Life is what you make it, you can sit back and use anything you want as an excuse for whatever you want but in the end it is not going to change until you change yourself no one is going to give you anything.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

ziggittyzag420 said:


> exactly,theyre not scientific fact are they?nope,theyre scientific theories,with evidence made by assumptions based on observations,explain to me how evolution and the big bang theory can be proved? i want you to post up facts that 100% prove they happened


Firstly, theories are theories because in accordance with science you can only disprove, not prove. How about the theory of gravity? Just because its a theory doesnt make it false.

Secondly, if you want a thread like that, go start one. This is my thread, and its called things christianity has made worse, and in the spirit of discussion I will entertain still theories as to why ,hristians wear scrotum goates...my answer is because often they suck balls


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 26, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Yes, we do hold onto things from the past, its called history. Learn more.
> 
> We did hold Germans accountable, there were trials for years. And we deprived them of military for decades. They were punished. Also, ask a german, people still give them shit.
> 
> ...


 all thats tragic and all but has nothing to do with the discussion,and its quite silly for some atheist to blame a bunch of stoners via the web for a thousand years of oppression,when you were young were you sodomized by a catholic priest,i feel like you feel christianty owes you for something,listen if you dont want god in your life,you could rot in the ground with the rest,makes no difference to me lol


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

sen.c said:


> Classic they always say this, have you ever though that you never were truly regenerate of heart to begin with and as soon as "Church" preached or teached something that you didn't like you just ran rather than deal with the issue.
> Besides your statements are enough to prove that you didn't consider it all that is why you find yourself in this situation.
> 
> 
> ...


so then the only reason someone couldnt be christian is if they dont understand? Dont make assumptions about thedegree of my former fervor. You dont know what level of devotion I followed, you dont know my life or experience. You sound retarded making a statement like that.

And what situation do I find myself in? Perhaps you could clue me in. is it the situation where I live a happy fulfilling life abundant in joy and gratefulness where one of my few issues are christians and bad drivers?


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## wannabe grower (Oct 26, 2011)

The reason Christianity and Muslim are currently the top 2 have more to do with who spread them and how much money their cultures had at the time. It will change eventually. Maybe Tom Cruise will be the new massiah in 2000 years. Or maybe China will take over the planet and we'll all be communists. Or maybe some alien race will land here and tell everyone they have to worship whatever they have or die. Really it's all subject to change. Maybe even the Christians will eventually tell everyone what to think. Won't that be delightful. Brain washing for all, YAY! If you don't agree you die. Maybe a way to determine if you'll be a believer before birth, or wait conception. It's hard enough to make sure the wrong people don't have babies now.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

ziggittyzag420 said:


> all thats tragic and all but has nothing to do with the discussion,and its quite silly for some atheist to blame a bunch of stoners via the web for a thousand years of oppression,when you were young were you sodomized by a catholic priest,i feel like you feel christianty owes you for something,listen if you dont want god in your life,you could rot in the ground with the rest,makes no difference to me lol


Good, so then what the fuck are you doing on this thread to begin with, let me rot as you say


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## sen.c (Oct 26, 2011)

> so then the only reason someone couldnt be christian is if they dont understand? Dont make assumptions about thedegree of my former fervor. You dont know what level of devotion I followed, you dont know my life or experience. You sound retarded making a statement like that.


I question it, and I challange you to prove your vast knowledge you say you have of the Bible and True Christianity, not the one made up in your head to suit what makes you feel good but the true word of God. I don't need to know your life expierence, your statements speak for themselves. Now step up, I will be your sounding board what you got.

My friend you find yourself in a self made shit sandwhich, and now no matter how much damage control you try to do a shit sandwhich no matter how much bread you put on it is still a shit sandwhich.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 26, 2011)

ziggittyzag420 said:


> exactly,theyre not scientific fact are they?nope,theyre scientific theories,with evidence made by assumptions based on observations,explain to me how evolution and the big bang theory can be proved? i want you to post up facts that 100% prove they happened


Like I said before, the word theory means something completely different in a scientific context than it does to the layman. I can provide evidence that would lead any rational mind to the same conclusion but your dogma disables you from accepting it. The evidence is there for anyone to see, fundies like oly just refuse to accept it. That is what it comes down to. 

Science doesn't prove anything, indeed I (or you) cant 'prove' anything, only disprove things.

To provide you with an example, I encourage you to take up either of these challenges;

A. Prove to me I'm not a brain floating in a lab somewhere being manipulated by electrical impulses to experience what I call life.

B. prove that I don't have an invisible fire breathing dragon in my garage.


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## sen.c (Oct 26, 2011)

[video=youtube;Ore6K3ESTLc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ore6K3ESTLc[/video]



> fundies like oly just refuse to accept it. That is what it comes down to.


Let's be honest now that is like the pot calling the kettle black.


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## wannabe grower (Oct 26, 2011)

"but the true word of God". What exactly is the true word of God? id he speak directly to you at some point? You never answered that earlier.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

sen.c said:


> I question it, and I challange you to prove your vast knowledge you say you have of the Bible and True Christianity, not the one made up in your head to suit what makes you feel good but the true word of God. I don't need to know your life expierence, your statements speak for themselves. Now step up, I will be your sounding board what you got.
> 
> My friend you find yourself in a self made shit sandwhich, and now no matter how much damage control you try to do a shit sandwhich no matter how much bread you put on it is still a shit sandwhich.


More than proof is needed for you to believe me I would assume, and I owe YOU no proof to be entitled to my oppinions. If you dont like them, dont try to change them, just go away.

My life is a shit sandwich? I have traveled 4 of the 6 travelable continents. I have a large family. I have an advanced education. I have slept with over 100 women. I can communicate at least moderately in 4 languages. I am in mostly great health aside from a few problems. I have all the grade A grass I can smoke. I have the third best job in the world following pornstars and basketball players. I have a beautiful wife and a son on the way. I am 30. And burritos are for dinner tonight! My life is fucking awesome! Shit sandwhich....you wish.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 26, 2011)

sen.c said:


> [video=youtube;Ore6K3ESTLc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ore6K3ESTLc[/video]
> 
> 
> 
> Let's be honest now that is like the pot calling the kettle black.


I have tangible, testable, measurable data that I can give you and you can test for yourself and you will come up with the exact same conclusion. You have faith. I have nothing to test, only your words 'just have faith', and if I don't trick myself into believing it, your only recourse is 'you didn't truly believe it in your heart', which many of us have pointed out is a logical fallacy, and like usual, 3/4 of you are too ignorant to see it and the last 1/4 is proud of it. 

It's as if we're all in elementary school again and we ask if you guys want to have a kickball game at recess, you all agree.. But show up with a wiffle ball, tennis racket and catchers mitt and expect to play basketball. When the rest of us explain the rules, you ignore them, complain to the teacher we're plaing unfair, then claim victory when the bell rings.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 26, 2011)

So how's everyone doing?


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## wannabe grower (Oct 26, 2011)

*chirp chirp*


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 26, 2011)

sen.c said:


> Yes actually I do think that many books of the Bible were originally written by witnesses. That is how history was passed down at that time was it not? The people of those times chronicled through writing
> so that there would be historical data of the time and events. In those times that is how people keep records to pass on to future generations for teaching.
> 
> Do you think the "Big Bang" and "Evolution" theories were written by witnesses?
> ...


 then why do any of the verified authors of that time make no mention of jesus? or his amazing acts? and what ever happened between the age of 12 and 30? why would he all of a sudden stop preforming these special and so amazing things just to return and immediately be crucified?


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 26, 2011)

haha i got a better idea for a thread how about the christians give us proof that theirs a god or how about they attempt to convert us and make us all see the errors of our ways i bet that would never happen...


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## mindphuk (Oct 26, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Perhaps you dont consider that a lot of used to be christians. We believe what we believe BECAUSE we have considered it all. Perhaps if I had learned less of it than I did I might still believe it. We dont disbelive because of lack of exposure or education in christianity, but because of our exposure and education in christianity. Does that make sense at all?


One of the shortest paths to atheism is to sit down and actually read the bible cover to cover.


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## skunkpunk13 (Oct 26, 2011)

you can add Halloween to the list just watched corbert report and apparently christians are pushing for this Halloween to be called christoween and are urging there followers to dress in all white and hand out bibles lol i gotta post this video


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

skunkpunk13 said:


> haha i got a better idea for a thread how about the christians give us proof that theirs a god or how about they attempt to convert us and make us all see the errors of our ways i bet that would never happen...





skunkpunk13 said:


> you can add Halloween to the list just watched corbert report and apparently christians are pushing for this Halloween to be called christoween and are urging there followers to dress in all white and hand out bibles lol i gotta post this video


If they do that, we should rent devil costumes the next sunday and go to church, sit down, and try to hand a pamphlet to the first person to approach you


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 26, 2011)

Something else christianity has made worse....mel gibson


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 27, 2011)

skunkpunk13 said:


> you can add Halloween to the list just watched corbert report and apparently christians are pushing for this Halloween to be called christoween and are urging there followers to dress in all white and hand out bibles lol i gotta post this video


are you fuckin kiddin? to all the loudmouth jesus lovers sayin that non-believers ram shit down their throat...whats your response to this bullshit?


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## sen.c (Oct 27, 2011)

> "but the true word of God". What exactly is the true word of God? id he speak directly to you at some point? You never answered that earlier.


Are you mentally challenged or something, the true word of god would be his word read in context and not used to fit whatever you wanted to justify. God doesn't speak to anyone 
directly anymore, that ended when his son came in the flesh.



> When the rest of us explain the rules, you ignore them, complain to the teacher we're plaing unfair, then claim victory when the bell rings.


That's funny, I thought you were talking about what you guys do. Like in many other posts, you my friend are still batting zero in several major issues like evolution and big bang. You can try and justify all you want but you still got nothing. What is even funnier about the whole thing is that you have the gall to make a statement like "I have tangible, testable, measurable data that I can give you and you can test for yourself and you will come up with the exact same conclusion" and you expect someone with half a brain to believe you. When we hear all this talk of arrogance this is what comes to mind.

You people need to learn the true term "Christian" and quit applying it to anyone who believes in something or thinks they are a good person because that is far from the truth.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2011)

sen.c said:


> That's funny, I thought you were talking about what you guys do. Like in many other posts, you my friend are still batting zero in several major issues like evolution and big bang. You can try and justify all you want but you still got nothing. What is even funnier about the whole thing is that you have the gall to make a statement like "I have tangible, testable, measurable data that I can give you and you can test for yourself and you will come up with the exact same conclusion" and you* expect someone with half a brain to believe you*. When we hear all this talk of arrogance this is what comes to mind.


Does it take half a brain to look at evolution and the big bang and say they are batting zero and then look at the wild speculation that is Christianity and cry certainty? That is a great example of arrogance right there. You have been exposed to the mountains of evidence, and if we comprised all the supporting data and put it into a pile, it would indeed be a mountain, yet you pretend is if any sane person should see there is _nothing_ to it. Meanwhile you can not begin to point out why these theories do not make sense, unless you draw from your made up caricature of history and reality. 

If someone tells you to test something for yourself they are obviously not expecting you to believe it, they are expecting you to verify it. They are in fact saying 'don't believe me, here is what lead me to this conclusion, see if you believe it'. That is what proponents of the big bang and evolution have to offer, and what Christians lack. You like to denounce evolution because you think doing so somehow lends credence to creationism, yet you have never taken the time to understand it. You have only taken the time to pretend to understand it, to constantly proclaim how genuine you are, without actually bothering to add substance to your criticism.

"You can try and justify all you want but you still got nothing." <-- imagine if science took this attitude. How about saying "If you justify it sufficiently then I will consider it". How can we trust such an inconsistent and backwards mind such as the one you display to come to an accurate conclusion? We have been willing to let you justify your assertions and we consider them seriously and give you a thoughtful response. You give us tricks, posturing and zero justification, in other words, your typical song and dance.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

skunkpunk13 said:


> haha i got a better idea for a thread how about the christians give us proof that theirs a god or how about they attempt to convert us and make us all see the errors of our ways i bet that would never happen...


Why do we have to give you proof?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

^^^ and the cycle begins....


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> ^^^ and the cycle begins....



[video=youtube;yZKvuSYIykY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZKvuSYIykY[/video]


...I like 3:40


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## Hypocrite420 (Oct 27, 2011)

So do Christians just not believe in Science at all? Do they think that science is fake? The physical proof means nothing when you compare it to stories about magic and fairytale places? God works in such mysterious ways that he must have created science to keep his identity a secret? Is he really Alanis Morissette? I love RPGs but it baffles me how grown adults can believe in this shit so seriously. Seriously enough to spam threads that were created to keep them at bay? I know if I see a thread that says, "list of things that Atheists made worse" I would not even open it because I know where I stand. It's not open for debate here. IT IS ABSURD. Do Christians also believe in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny?


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

Christians just believe the science that they want to believe and interpret it the way they want to, just like the bible


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## Hypocrite420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Why do we have to give you proof?


You do not have to give us proof. You can't because it doesnt exist. What you are dreaming of is a magical land. We live in reality. You have eaten too much fungus brother. Why can't you Christians just back off and if we are wrong, we will surely know when we are rotting in eternal flame. You can sit up in heaven and laugh at us then. Why u gotta come ruin potentially good threads? Make a thread about this debate if you want to debate it. "Christian VS Atheist". Stop doing it here. Another thing Christians have made worse: Enjoying a fresh bong rip


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> Christians just believe the science that they want to believe and interpret it the way they want to, just like the bible


...how do _you_ interpret scientific findings?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Hypocrite420 said:


> So do Christians just not believe in Science at all? Do they think that science is fake? The physical proof means nothing when you compare it to stories about magic and fairytale places? God works in such mysterious ways that he must have created science to keep his identity a secret? Is he really Alanis Morissette? I love RPGs but it baffles me how grown adults can believe in this shit so seriously. Seriously enough to spam threads that were created to keep them at bay? I know if I see a thread that says, "list of things that Atheists made worse" I would not even open it because I know where I stand. It's not open for debate here. IT IS ABSURD. Do Christians also believe in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny?


Wow, you're very ignorant.


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...how do _you_ interpret scientific findings?


I interpret them as they are presented by the research as they were intended to be interpreted


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Hypocrite420 said:


> You do not have to give us proof. You can't because it doesnt exist. What you are dreaming of is a magical land. We live in reality. You have eaten too much fungus brother. Why can't you Christians just back off and if we are wrong, we will surely know when we are rotting in eternal flame. You can sit up in heaven and laugh at us then. Why u gotta come ruin potentially good threads? Make a thread about this debate if you want to debate it. "Christian VS Atheist". Stop doing it here. Another thing Christians have made worse: Enjoying a fresh bong rip


 Why are we the ones that have to back off? This thread is pretty much a thread against us Christians. So how about you guys back off and if you're right then you're right.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> Christians just believe the science that they want to believe and interpret it the way they want to, just like the bible


Lol you're ignorant too. I believe in ALL science. How can you not?


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Why are we the ones that have to back off? This thread is pretty much a thread against us Christians. So how about you guys back off and if you're right then you're right.


Because your hypocritical philosophy is not welcome in this discussion. Go make your own Atheist bashing thread and we'll leave you alone


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## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2011)

ziggittyzag420 said:


> exactly,theyre not scientific fact are they?nope,theyre scientific theories,with evidence made by assumptions based on observations,explain to me how evolution and the big bang theory can be proved? i want you to post up facts that 100% prove they happened


If we are going to set the standard for belief at 100% proof, Christianity is in trouble. Of course, Christianity is in trouble if we worry about just 1%. The big bang and evolution are much more than simple theories based on observations. The theories are given weight because they have considerable explanatory and predictability power. They have survived rigorous standards of scrutiny and doubt, test after test. They are the best approximation of the truth a systematic method of careful, thorough and consistent study can produce.

Meanwhile, if we did prove evolution 100%, would it cause you to disbelieve in God? Do you suppose either the big bang or evolution exclude God as possible authors? The theories make no attempt to explain a creator, not even to the point of saying there was none. These theories have no problem with the idea of God, it is the idea of a Christian god that has a problem with them.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> I interpret them as they are presented by the research as they were intended to be interpreted


...so the bible, being penned for quite a few people, should be a representation of each individuals thoughts and processes? Well, I can see how you'd feel the perspective is narrow.

...research, both theist and atheist, can lead nowhere. which is the better nowhere? is there a better nowhere? Both want progress - that's half obvious.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...how do _you_ interpret scientific findings?


Objectively


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> Because your hypocritical philosophy is not welcome in this discussion. Go make your own Atheist bashing thread and we'll leave you alone


How is my philosophy hypocritical? 

So you say to leave you atheists alone, then you tell me to make an atheist bashing thread. You're a confused individual.


----------



## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> Because your hypocritical philosophy is not welcome in this discussion. Go make your own Atheist bashing thread and *we'll leave you alone*


Speak for yourself 


However if there was a thread of things atheists made worse, and I felt the items listed were justified, I would have no problem with it.


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Lol you're ignorant too. I believe in ALL science. How can you not?


How is that an ignorant statement? Christians interpret the bible...an interpreted book to begin with, written in a completely different society, rewritten based on assumptions and interpretations as to the original meaning...so now 2000 years later you have people who go to school to study this interpreted, rewritten, manual for life that in turn make their own assumptions and interpretations that a simple "wisper in your classmates ear" test tells you always ends up skewed and manipulated even in such a short duration. So...explain to me how after 2000 years something some random set of dudes wrote, and had rewritten about centuries later, and converted in to several languages who's roots did not easily translate, make any sense to "believe" in?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Speak for yourself
> 
> 
> However if there was a thread of things atheists made worse, and I felt the items listed were justified, I would have no problem with it.


 You're gonna pick in me heis? .


----------



## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Objectively


...which is a respectful path. Absolute subjectivity is the same.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> How is that an ignorant statement? Christians interpret the bible...an interpreted book to begin with, written in a completely different society, rewritten based on assumptions and interpretations as to the original meaning...so now 2000 years later you have people who go to school to study this interpreted, rewritten, manual for life that in turn make their own assumptions and interpretations that a simple "wisper in your classmates ear" test tells you always ends up skewed and manipulated even in such a short duration. So...explain to me how after 2000 years something some random set of dudes wrote, and had rewritten about centuries later, and converted in to several languages who's roots did not easily translate, make any sense to "believe" in?


i said you're ignorant because you think Christians ignore science. You ignore the fact that many Christians don't ignore the facts of science, so that makes you ignorant to that fact.


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...so the bible, being penned for quite a few people, should be a representation of each individuals thoughts and processes? Well, I can see how you'd feel the perspective is narrow.
> 
> ...research, both theist and atheist, can lead nowhere. which is the better nowhere? is there a better nowhere? Both want progress - that's half obvious.


But the "progress" you speak of has two separate driving forces behind it, one is for control and order, the other is for enlightenment and knowledge. They all have their bad seeds fudging information, but a person who doesn't have a monetary, power, or fear driven consciousness, at least in my opinion, would be more believable because they have nothing to gain from it.


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> i said you're ignorant because you think Christians ignore science. You ignore the fact that many Christians don't ignore the facts of science, so that makes you ignorant to that fact.


never once said christians ignore science...quit "interpreting" my words to your own agenda please...


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> never once said christians ignore science...quit "interpreting" my words to your own agenda please...


Well you asked a question that made it seem as though Christians don't believe science. That shows some ignorance.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> You're gonna pick in me heis? .


No, not all the items on _this_ list are justified. You have a right to defend those that aren't. Also, I recall someone saying something like "eat shit Christians". If I saw an anti-atheism thread and it said "eat shit atheists", I might feel compelled to join the discussion. So I feel you have the right to be here.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> But the "progress" you speak of has two separate driving forces behind it, one is for control and order, the other is for enlightenment and knowledge. They all have their bad seeds fudging information, but a person who doesn't have a monetary, power, or fear driven consciousness, at least in my opinion, would be more believable because they have nothing to gain from it.


...right! ...and given that information does it not show the obvious? Believer or non-believer sees when he's fckd up - I know we all have this in common. The order and control side of the coin is 'what you get' when you push too far. You don't have to be christian to see that in effect out in the world.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Well you asked a question that made it seem as though Christians don't believe science. That shows some ignorance.


The point I got from that is that some Christians, particularly creationists, tend to favor science when they perceive it backs them up, and totally discredit it when it doesn't.


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Well you asked a question that made it seem as though Christians don't believe science. That shows some ignorance.


nope, it was your "interpretation" and assumptions that "proves" the ignorance in your beliefs. I take things as they are presented, if they do not have a definitive representation of information I request more facts to continue the debate. That is something I hold very dear to my beliefs, the ability to object to something that someone has told me so that they have to provide enough scientific evidence to make their hypothesis a theory. Something religious people tend to forget about when sitting in a church listening to someone with a book in front of them believing every last bit of it, because if they don't they are going to hell...


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## sso (Oct 27, 2011)

what? it aint all bad lol


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## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> But the "progress" you speak of has two separate driving forces behind it, one is for control and order, the other is for enlightenment and knowledge. They all have their bad seeds fudging information, but a person who doesn't have a monetary, power, or fear driven consciousness, at least in my opinion, would be more believable because they have nothing to gain from it.


I am not sure what the church does can be equivocated to the progress that science produces. Science serves to bring us all together with it's free sharing of ideas and findings, to make our lives more comfortable and enjoyable with technology, and to extend our lives with medical advancement. Religion serves to separate us, teaches us to accept ideas without thought, and has resisted nearly every major scientific change it has ever encountered. Science said the world is round, religion said no. Science said lives can be saved through stem cell research, religion said no. It seems the church averts progress more often than it embraces it.


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

I honestly think religion stifles the brain by not letting it think for itself. Hell here is a study for you:

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/religion_vs_iq.html

^^ So either religious people don't use their brains enough, or their reduction in intelligence vs athiests makes them more apt to gravitate towards the fantasy given to them?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> The point I got from that is that some Christians, particularly creationists, tend to favor science when they perceive it backs them up, and totally discredit it when it doesn't.


...here's the part I don't get. Science provides theories - ok, great. But, it doesn't have an answer as to why life 'exists' at all. In the mean time, no believer ('cept the odd harry potter fearing ones) are against progress and technology. It keeps family members alive, and so on. This is something that I am highly grateful for!


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## Howard Stern (Oct 27, 2011)

As far as I see it everyone is a piece of shit no matter what religion! This whole world is turning into a giant breeding ground of selfish self-centered lying deceitful pieces of shit! If you are in America just go down to your local Wal Mart and look around! Our government is fucked, the people are worthless, and everyone just wants a handout instead of working for what you got! Our kids are the future????? Have you seen these fucking kids lately? I don't see any reason to fight over whose made up God is better or fighting over if there even is one. We should be worried about more important things! My more important things is going and checking on my ladies!


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## cannabineer (Oct 27, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...which is a respectful path. Absolute subjectivity is the same.


Absolute objectivity is communicable but unattainable. Absolute subjectivity is attainable but incommunicable. My one paw clapping ... cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> The point I got from that is that some Christians, particularly creationists, tend to favor science when they perceive it backs them up, and totally discredit it when it doesn't.


Many Christians do not believe in science. But many of us Christians completely acknowledge science. I want separation from ignorant Christians. I'm not saying I'm not ignorant, but at least I believe in science....


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

man, thats a really ignoramus statement





massah said:


> How is that an ignorant statement? Christians interpret the bible...an interpreted book to begin with, written in a completely different society, rewritten based on assumptions and interpretations as to the original meaning...so now 2000 years later you have people who go to school to study this interpreted, rewritten, manual for life that in turn make their own assumptions and interpretations that a simple "wisper in your classmates ear" test tells you always ends up skewed and manipulated even in such a short duration. So...explain to me how after 2000 years something some random set of dudes wrote, and had rewritten about centuries later, and converted in to several languages who's roots did not easily translate, make any sense to "believe" in?


----------



## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> Absolute objectivity is communicable but unattainable. Absolute subjectivity is attainable but incommunicable. My one paw clapping ... cn


...precisely! Now, if we all could coordinate our efforts we'd be creating quite the applauds


----------



## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...here's the part I don't get. Science provides theories - ok, great. But, it doesn't have an answer as to why life 'exists' at all. In the mean time, no believer ('cept the odd harry potter fearing ones) are against progress and technology. It keeps family members alive, and so on. This is something that I am highly grateful for!


Then why were women and men routinely burned at the stake and labeled as witches? I believe the statement "something that religion can not explain must in turn be evil and destroyed" seemed to be quite popular back in the day...


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

a ha, i see that atheists do this as well... big fail on your part...

plus thats a nice ad hominem 





Heisenberg said:


> The point I got from that is that some Christians, particularly creationists, tend to favor science when they perceive it backs them up, and totally discredit it when it doesn't.


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> nope, it was your "interpretation" and assumptions that "proves" the ignorance in your beliefs. I take things as they are presented, if they do not have a definitive representation of information I request more facts to continue the debate. That is something I hold very dear to my beliefs, the ability to object to something that someone has told me so that they have to provide enough scientific evidence to make their hypothesis a theory. Something religious people tend to forget about when sitting in a church listening to someone with a book in front of them believing every last bit of it, because if they don't they are going to hell...


not all religious people sit in churches. 

What ignorance do I have? I don't ignore anything lol.

So you demand a debate? Alright I'm ready. What is your argument? 

Besides do you honestly believe all Christians don't believe in science?


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> man, thats a really ignoramus statement


mine engrish no good, so instead of responding to it in a profound way you instead pick apart my grammar...good job


----------



## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

ok, i guess you have not picked it up yet, i will use caps locks so you could attempt to pick it up here,

AGAIN, THOSE PEOPLE YOU ACCUSE US OF BEING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT WE BELIEVE IN. YOU ARE REALLY IGNORANT FOR SAYING SOMETHING SO STUPID. YOUR CONSTANT AD HOMINEM ATTACKS DONT WORK. THOSE ASSHOLES YOU SPEAK OF ARE RETARDS WHO HAD NOTHING BETTER TO DO, BUT USE THE WORD OF GOD AS A WEAPON AGAINST OPPOSERS OF THE CHURCH. WHAT IS IT THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT WE HERE DISLIKE THAT AS MUCH AS YOU DO?





massah said:


> Then why were women and men routinely burned at the stake and labeled as witches? I believe the statement "something that religion can not explain must in turn be evil and destroyed" seemed to be quite popular back in the day...


----------



## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Besides do you honestly believe all Christians don't believe in science?


I'm ignoring the rest of your comments on the grounds that you will never see my views, nor will I ever see yours, and I never made that statement I quoted you on...


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> Then why were women and men routinely burned at the stake and labeled as witches? I believe the statement "something that religion can not explain must in turn be evil and destroyed" seemed to be quite popular back in the day...


...oy, how far back do we need to go to see that we are in the present. And that has more to do with 'bringing something to light' - not my fault (now) that it happened the way it did.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

grammer has nothing to do with your statement being ignorant, but thank you for demonstrating to the wonderful people here how much of an ignoramus you are already




massah said:


> mine engrish no good, so instead of responding to it in a profound way you instead pick apart my grammar...good job


----------



## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> ok, i guess you have not picked it up yet, i will use caps locks so you could attempt to pick it up here,
> 
> AGAIN, THOSE PEOPLE YOU ACCUSE US OF BEING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT WE BELIEVE IN. YOU ARE REALLY IGNORANT FOR SAYING SOMETHING SO STUPID. YOUR CONSTANT AD HOMINEM ATTACKS DONT WORK. THOSE ASSHOLES YOU SPEAK OF ARE RETARDS WHO HAD NOTHING BETTER TO DO, BUT USE THE WORD OF GOD AS A WEAPON AGAINST OPPOSERS OF THE CHURCH. WHAT IS IT THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT WE HERE DISLIKE THAT AS MUCH AS YOU DO?


This coming from the same guy who blamed atheists for priests molesting children...yeah i'll take this with a grain of salt...next?


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...oy, how far back do we need to go to see that we are in the present. And that has more to do with 'bringing something to light' - not my fault (now) that it happened the way it did.


my point with that is, you see how religion fucked people up BACK THEN...as it has for hundreds, if not thousands of years...do you think after 2000 years mankind is finally "right" in regards to religion?


----------



## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Many Christians do not believe in science. But many of us Christians completely acknowledge science. I want separation from ignorant Christians. I'm not saying I'm not ignorant, but at least I believe in science....


Then you should join along side us when we chide Christians who do selectively accept science. This is a common practice I see among religious leaders and institutions. The discovery institute for example. These are the people whom we aim our criticism at, and so should you. It should be an unacceptable practice for anyone who considers themselves intellectual, regardless of religion.


----------



## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

thank you again for demonstrating how much of an ignoramus you are for believing that false statement i made... you are doing a great job, keep it up.




massah said:


> This coming from the same guy who blamed atheists for priests molesting children...yeah i'll take this with a grain of salt...next?


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> I'm ignoring the rest of your comments on the grounds that you will never see my views, nor will I ever see yours, and I never made that statement I quoted you on...


What are your views? I'm all ears....


----------



## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

again, you are demonstrating the superior/inferior status amongst us here today. what is that you feel you think are better or superior to others here




Heisenberg said:


> Then you should join along side us when we chide Christians who do selectively accept science.


----------



## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> What are your views? I'm all ears....


he's a joke heph, he obviously did not heed to heis advice to someone else on another thread i think...

he actually believed i was being serious about atheists causing priests to molest children, LOL


----------



## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> What are your views? I'm all ears....


his views are hatred against christians


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Then you should join along side us when we chide Christians who do selectively accept science. This is a common practice I see among religious leaders and institutions. The discovers institute for example. These are the people who we aim our criticism at, and so should you. It should be an unacceptable practice for anyone who considers themselves intellectual, regardless of religion.


 I will do that, I've had debates with a few Christians on their selective acceptance of science.


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> again, you are demonstrating the superior/inferior status amongst us here today. what is that you feel you think are better or superior to others here


My post giving this link: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/religion_vs_iq.html

provides sufficient information to generally speak that I am superior in mental computation to at least a few of you...and considering when I was tested in 3rd grade I had an IQ of 157...I can safely say my brain functions differently than yours when looking at reality.

AND BEFORE THE REST OF YOU LOOK AT THAT STATEMENT ABOVE IT IS NOT DIRECTED TOWARDS ANYONE ELSE EXCEPT OLYLIFTER420...


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> my point with that is, you see how religion fucked people up BACK THEN...as it has for hundreds, if not thousands of years...do you think after 2000 years mankind is finally "right" in regards to religion?


...look man, science has fckd up too ok? Here 

I'm kidding, but to answer your question - it's is getting there.

[video=youtube;9Ja3NxeLhWg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ja3NxeLhWg[/video]


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> his views are hatred against christians


assumptions...i love my mother in law who is a devote christian, as well as many of my family members, and I respect them enough to never discuss their views with them, and they have the same respect for me.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

bring it on heph... its on now.

lets debate





Hepheastus420 said:


> I will do that, I've had debates with a few Christians on their selective acceptance of science.


----------



## cannabineer (Oct 27, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> again, you are demonstrating the superior/inferior status amongst us here today. what is that you feel you think are better or superior to others here


 I disagree, oly. The statement is symmetrical. Christians have the same right, perhaps even duty, to challenge nonbelievers who use intellectually unfair arguments against their dotrine(s). It's not about superiority; it's about method. cn


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...look man, science has fckd up too ok? Here
> 
> I'm kidding, but to answer your question - it's is getting there.
> 
> [video=youtube;9Ja3NxeLhWg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ja3NxeLhWg[/video]


LOL I've actually seen one of those


----------



## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

i dont disagree with you neer, that is the case in the real world when there is respect, not animosity towards the person you want discuss things with. his view here is skewed because he is not willing to hear out the other side of the argument. that is why is brought that up and i do believe it applies here today on riu...





cannabineer said:


> I disagree, oly. The statement is symmetrical. Christians have the same right, perhaps even duty, to challenge nonbelievers who use intellectually unfair arguments against their dotrine(s). It's not about superiority; it's about method. cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> bring it on heph... its on now.
> 
> lets debate


Alright a debate with a friend whoo, .

So what's your argument?


----------



## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

i dont know, i thought you had an idea




Hepheastus420 said:


> Alright a debate with a friend whoo, .
> 
> So what's your argument?


----------



## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> i dont disagree with you neer, that is the case in the real world when there is respect, not animosity towards the person you want discuss things with. his view here is skewed because he is not willing to hear out the other side of the argument. that is why is brought that up and i do believe it applies here today on riu...


I've heard your side of the argument for about 30 years now, I go to church every Christmas Eve and Easter Sunday out of respect for my family. Plus I get to hear quite a bit about it from my wife who is a pasters daughter who after 20 years of having religion drilled into her head decided on her own that it was a bunch of bullshit.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> i dont know, i thought you had an idea


Lol nah, that went by fast haha.


----------



## cannabineer (Oct 27, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> i dont disagree with you neer, that is the case in the real world when there is respect, not animosity towards the person you want discuss things with. his view here is skewed because he is not willing to hear out the other side of the argument. that is why is brought that up and i do believe it applies here today on riu...


Are we talking about the same guy? Heisenberg is ruthless in the presence of bad reasoning. Where the reasoning is OK however I have seen him to be just as evenhandedly quick to accept it. I haven't seen a single incidence where he didn't pay all due attention to an argument. Think of Heis as a pH test kit for rationality ... you might not like the answer, but good luck finding fault with it. Jmo. cn


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## Hypocrite420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Well you asked a question that made it seem as though Christians don't believe science. That shows some ignorance.


Actually it was me that asked the question about Christians not believing in Science, not Massah. He just commented on it. So I am the ignorant one. And I don't give a fuck how ignorant I am. I don't understand how Christians could POSSIBLY believe in science when it completely contradicts their existence. So I am ignorant. Atleast I'm not ignorant AND Christian.


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

Hypocrite420 said:


> Actually it was me that asked the question about Christians not believing in Science, not Massah. He just commented on it. So I am the ignorant one. And I don't give a fuck how ignorant I am. I don't understand how Christians could POSSIBLY believe in science when it completely contradicts their existence. So I am ignorant. Atleast I'm not ignorant AND Christian.


You have way too much Vulcan in you bro


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Hypocrite420 said:


> Actually it was me that asked the question about Christians not believing in Science, not Massah. He just commented on it. So I am the ignorant one. And I don't give a fuck how ignorant I am. I don't understand how Christians could POSSIBLY believe in science when it completely contradicts their existence. So I am ignorant. Atleast I'm not ignorant AND Christian.


Lol I'm a Christian but I'm not ignorant (well until a certain extent). 

Massah I owe you an apology, so sorry for calling you ignorant.

Well then you're ignorant hypocrite420, lol.


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## Hypocrite420 (Oct 27, 2011)

where has Phil been lately? I think he gave up on this thread knowing that these guys are never gonna back off. I think I am going to start an Atheist-bashing thread and hope that will draw their attention away from this one so we can get back to this GODDAMN list!!!


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Hypocrite420 said:


> where has Phil been lately? I think he gave up on this thread knowing that these guys are never gonna back off. I think I am going to start an Atheist-bashing thread and hope that will draw their attention away from this one so we can get back to this GODDAMN list!!!


Back off of what? We have freedom of speech (or typing lol). How about you atheists back off?


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

Hypocrite420 said:


> where has Phil been lately? I think he gave up on this thread knowing that these guys are never gonna back off. I think I am going to start an Atheist-bashing thread and hope that will draw their attention away from this one so we can get back to this GODDAMN list!!!


No, I didnt give up, I had to cook dinner last night, then when I woke there were like 7 new pages to read, mostly of the same stuff. Sorry

I keep seeing the same argument here, this isnt really an argument thread unless its ,"hey, we christians didnt make THAT worse and heres why..."

What I AM seeing though is the same, "you are wrong about christianity being a false religion" without much reason why. We all know, and christians know too, that ultimately you have only faith. But faith, IMO, is just the desire to believe in that which we have no compelling evidence or deffinitive answers to support something. Ultimately your end argument will have to be, "you just gotta have faith man"

And I love seeing christians say they believe in science. Thats like me saying I believe in religion. I believe in many things religions preach much like you believe in many things that science teaches. However, there are a few HUGE factors with religion that I disagree with, such as a divine god that cares about us for example, much like there are a few HUGE factors in science you dont believe in, like carbon dating for example. Much like I cant say I believe in religion if I only believe a few points, you cant really deffend your case for believing in science while discrediting a few huge premises.


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Massah I owe you an apology, so sorry for calling you ignorant.


It's ok, if its anything religion has taught me, it is to forgive...except dirty rotten cheating cunts...but that's a whole other discussion...


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Back off of what? We have freedom of speech (or typing lol). How about you atheists back off?


Its like you come into one of our homes and tell us to leave you alone.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

ah, so you have also been a victim of a cheating cunt? That sucks, but fuck that cunt




massah said:


> It's ok, if its anything religion has taught me, it is to forgive...except dirty rotten cheating cunts...but that's a whole other discussion...


----------



## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

seems we have a bit in common you and i... too late on my side, i have made an ass of myself already, lol





massah said:


> I've heard your side of the argument for about 30 years now, I go to church every Christmas Eve and Easter Sunday out of respect for my family. Plus I get to hear quite a bit about it from my wife who is a pasters daughter who after 20 years of having religion drilled into her head decided on her own that it was a bunch of bullshit.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

cool, why do you accept evolution or what are your thoughts?





Hepheastus420 said:


> Lol nah, that went by fast haha.


----------



## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> No, I didnt give up, I had to cook dinner last night, then when I woke there were like 7 new pages to read, mostly of the same stuff. Sorry
> 
> I keep seeing the same argument here, this isnt really an argument thread unless its ,"hey, we christians didnt make THAT worse and heres why..."
> 
> ...


...Philthy, can I call you Philthy? Faith is not so much about saying 'don't worry man, have faith'. It is more structured than you might think. Faith has everything to do with controlling the most potent creative energy known to man. If you'd care to, an esoteric study on 'peter' might help. Or, you can pull one if you'd like to. I will certainly not come into your home if you choose the latter.


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> Faith has everything to do with controlling


^^ I agree with this out of context statement.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> ^^ I agree with this out of context statement.


...nice! Show me how.


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...nice! Show me how.


I meant I agree with that statement even though I took it out of context of what your wrote


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## Basshead (Oct 27, 2011)

this thread makes roll it up worse. Lord Jesus rules you. (_Y_) <- kiss here


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> I meant I agree with that statement even though I took it out of context of what your wrote


...lol I know I wanted you to show me how faith controls people. I mean, it does, but I wanted to see your answer.


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

Basshead said:


> this thread makes roll it up worse. Lord Jesus rules you. (_Y_) <- kiss here


this comment makes this thread worse  I am unable to see the nipples in that sagging excuse of ascii art


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...lol I know I wanted you to show me how faith controls people. I mean, it does, but I wanted to see your answer.


I can pretty much sum that all up in one word

*Bible

*A set of rules and regulations formed in ancient tongues and interpreted by the masses


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> I can pretty much sum that all up in one word
> 
> *Bible
> 
> *A set of rules and regulations formed in ancient tongues and interpreted by the masses


...does not in any way describe faith. It does, however, show how to _attain_ faith.


----------



## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Like I said before, the word theory means something completely different in a scientific context than it does to the layman. I can provide evidence that would lead any rational mind to the same conclusion but your dogma disables you from accepting it. The evidence is there for anyone to see, fundies like oly just refuse to accept it. That is what it comes down to.
> 
> Science doesn't prove anything, indeed I (or you) cant 'prove' anything, only disprove things.
> 
> ...


 A. is a mind f*** and a half lol,i cannot prove A or B,but i cant disprove them either.Just like my stand on Evolution and The Big Bang,theirs some evidence that suggests they couldve happened,but not enough crucial evidence that suggest they did.Charles Darwins theory of Evolution by natural selection,for example,can anybody prove to me that a giraffe with a short neck,over time and many offsprings,will have a long neck?Is their fossilized remains of animals before and after evolution to connect the dots?(serious questions im curious)If the BigBAng did occur,(remember at the begininng of everything supposedly)what possible evidence can scientist collect to prove it or disprove it?have scientist ever witnessed firsthand this miracle?

And lets talk about the paranormal and such now,their is scientific evidence that might prove ghost and ghouls exist(sounds perposterous i know).But tell me,out of all the exorcisms and hauntings,did those people just imagine the occurance,and why are the dead so obsessed with heaven,hell,God,Satan,Latin and such?are the dead stuck in a "bubble" too in the afterlife?or did they witness the afterlife and its glory/pain and are trying to save our souls?and dont tell me EVERYONE who witnessed an exorcism or haunting have something psychologicaly wrong with them,that makes no sense.


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...does not in any way describe faith. It does, however, show how to _attain_ faith.


Well, when the majority of "christians" define their faith it usually includes faith IN the bible no?


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## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

hell a google search of "faith in the bible" in quotes comes up with _About 14,500,000 results (0.59 seconds)_


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> Well, when the majority of "christians" define their faith it usually includes faith IN the bible no?



...yes, but in respect to those who have gone before them. They have faith in those 'stories', and as confusing as they can be, those stories still hold true. Many people here do not deny the positives in religious thought. It is true that the gen-pop of christianity is wacked, but so am I. I am no where near 'controlling' anything but I can see what is needed. <---for my own development.

Hmm... Light - Fixer - Developer


----------



## Hypocrite420 (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> hell a google search of "faith in the bible" in quotes comes up with _About 14,500,000 results (0.59 seconds)_


I just googled "faith in the bible" and got this: About 178,000,000 results (0.21 seconds)


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...Philthy, can I call you Philthy? Faith is not so much about saying 'don't worry man, have faith'. It is more structured than you might think. Faith has everything to do with controlling the most potent creative energy known to man. If you'd care to, an esoteric study on 'peter' might help. Or, you can pull one if you'd like to. I will certainly not come into your home if you choose the latter.


This brings up an excellent point, the need to control ones mind, the avoidance of the knowledge of good and evil, the thought that an attempt at full understanding is of the devils path. (and heph, using these words doenst mean I believe in them, its what you guys believe, so I can say devil or god right?)

I recently had a discussion with my fundamentalist mother. We were talking about the subjectivity of most types of good and evil. My assertion was (and I dont wish to argue it) that absolute good and absolute evil are very rare, that if you groc or understand something from all angles and all things affected events are rarely absolutely good or absolutely evil. That even the most absolute of wrongs at times would have been good, and vice versa. She said, "understanding something completely to rationaloze.evil is the devils greatest plan son."

My point is, why must we controll our mind. Why is questioning too much offensive to god? Why is reason the devils tool? I think its the greatest tool at humanities disposal to increase the degree of joy in this world.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Its like you come into one of our homes and tell us to leave you alone.


It's like I'm in my house (not bothering anyone), some people start shit talking about Christians in front of my house (this thread), I come out and say fuck off.

But you guys are the instigators. Do you not see that?


----------



## cannabineer (Oct 27, 2011)

ziggittyzag420 said:


> A. is a mind f*** and a half lol,i cannot prove A or B,but i cant disprove them either.Just like my stand on Evolution and The Big Bang,theirs some evidence that suggests they couldve happened,but not enough crucial evidence that suggest they did.Charles Darwins theory of Evolution by natural selection,for example,can anybody prove to me that a giraffe with a short neck,over time and many offsprings,will have a long neck?


 If you accept that all mammals follow the same evolutionary rules, look at what we have done with the wolf in ten thousand years. Corgis. Bassets. Borzois. Mastiffs. All from the same basic toolkit (wolf genome) using the same method (phenotype selection, the mechanism of natural selection) steered by artificial means (directed breeding). Giraffes evolved from other antelopes by an undirected breeding program ... the long-necked ones could graze more from trees. 


> [Are there] fossilized remains of animals before and after evolution to connect the dots?


 Most assuredly. One of the reasons the creationist community dislikes Richard Dawkins is because he worked on just that question, with positive result.


> (serious questions im curious)If the BigBAng did occur,(remember at the begininng of everything supposedly)what possible evidence can scientist collect to prove it or disprove it?have scientist ever witnessed firsthand this miracle?


By asking the "firsthand" part, I am no longer convinced that the question is serious. Obviously to claim so is ridiculous. 
Evolutionary paleontologists and astrophysicists cannot perform lab experiments on Burgess fauna or star formation. However the things that they did learn, they arrived at by following deductive chains. There isn't time or room here for me to hold forth about deductive reasoning and the premises used to formulate Big Bang cosmology. If you read an astrophysics text it will probably list the observed evidence, and the history of theory grappling with that evidence, to show that the occurrence of the Big Bang is essentially fact. cn


> And lets talk about the paranormal and such now,their is scientific evidence that might prove ghost and ghouls exist(sounds perposterous i know).


 No. There have been many claims, but none, not one, have stood the test of scrutiny. Can science disprove the existence of ghosts? No. But no good, durable candidates for any sort of spirit-sction in the natural world have been found to date ... but many many fraudulent attempts. 


> But tell me,out of all the exorcisms and hauntings,did those people just imagine the occurance,


 Imagine, deliriate, misinterpret, just plain fabricate ... The human mind is springloaded to think magically. That does not make magic true.


> and why are the dead so obsessed with heaven,hell,God,Satan,Latin and such?are the dead stuck in a "bubble" too in the afterlife?or did they witness the afterlife and its glory/pain and are trying to save our souls?and dont tell me EVERYONE who witnessed an exorcism or haunting have something psychologicaly wrong with them,that makes no sense.


People who are psychologically OK are still quite prone to superstition. It's a part of human nature, but the strong feeling that there "is something to this" is not a reasonable stance, however compelling it feels. 
As for the dead, how do you know they are obsessed with anything? There is not one single reliable case of reliable information coming from the dead ... but many many fraudulent claims, some of them sophisticated. cn


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> cool, why do you accept evolution or what are your thoughts?


I accept the possibility of evolution since there's undeniable evidence.


----------



## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I accept the possibility of evolution since there's undeniable evidence.


Then you question your faith in the bible


----------



## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> If you accept that all mammals follow the same evolutionary rules, look at what we have done with the wolf in ten thousand years. Corgis. Bassets. Borzois. Mastiffs. All from the same basic toolkit (wolf genome) using the same method (natural selection) steered by artificial means (directed breeding). Giraffes evolved from other antelopes by an undirected breeding program ... the long-necked ones could graze more from trees.
> Most assuredly. One of the reasons the creationist community dislikes Richard Dawkins is because he worked on just that question, with positive result.
> 
> By asking the "firsthand" part, I am no longer convinced that the question is serious. Obviously to claim so is ridiculous.
> ...


Thank you for taking the time to write all that out, that was awesome!


----------



## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> This brings up an excellent point, the need to control ones mind, the avoidance of the knowledge of good and evil, the thought that an attempt at full understanding is of the devils path. (and heph, using these words doenst mean I believe in them, its what you guys believe, so I can say devil or god right?)
> 
> I recently had a discussion with my fundamentalist mother. We were talking about the subjectivity of most types of good and evil. My assertion was (and I dont wish to argue it) that absolute good and absolute evil are very rare, that if you groc or understand something from all angles and all things affected events are rarely absolutely good or absolutely evil. That even the most absolute of wrongs at times would have been good, and vice versa. She said, "understanding something completely to rationaloze.evil is the devils greatest plan son."
> 
> My point is, why must we controll our mind. Why is questioning too much offensive to god? Why is reason the devils tool? I think its the greatest tool at humanities disposal to increase the degree of joy in this world.




...well, what I am trying to say when I write about controlling ones mind is with respect to adverse thought. When I say 'most potent creative energy known to man' I mean his means to procreate (male and female). With it comes a whole slew of negative ('demonic', or inverse) trains of thought that leads one AWAY from progressing. No one that I know or have known says to keep the curiosity to a minimum. The devil is us, all of us. The ignorance is in not accepting that - imHo


----------



## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...well, what I am trying to say when I write about controlling ones mind is with respect to adverse thought. When I say 'most potent creative energy known to man' I mean his means to procreate (male and female). With it comes a whole slew of negative ('demonic', or inverse) trains of thought that leads one AWAY from progressing. No one that I know or have known says to keep the curiosity to a minimum. The devil is us, all of us. The ignorance is in not accepting that - imHo


So when I knocked up my wife I was spreading the seed of satan?


----------



## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> So when I knocked up my wife I was spreading the seed of satan?


YES, kinda. Now we're headed down the lux path. Need to go?


----------



## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I accept the possibility of evolution since there's undeniable evidence.


Thank you heph, you are building points for yourself in my opinion, I am begining to appreciate your....paradigm view of the world. However, the whole judeao christian establishment disagrees with you on the "undeniable evidence " part. Hence one of our complaints for the list. Your veiws are seeming more and more interesting, however, they arent really congrous with the predominant views of the church


----------



## cannabineer (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> So when I knocked up my wife I was spreading the seed on satin?


Fixed it for ya, lol
Two observations.
1) You're messy at it.
2) Nice sheets!
~giggling, ducking~ cn


----------



## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> YES, kinda. Now we're headed down the lux path. Need to go?


I need to spread some more seed...time for a divorce I think...


----------



## Basshead (Oct 27, 2011)

I don't care much for alot of things. but i don't go around antagonizing in an active manner. just do your thing man, don't worry about things inside of other people's heads. if a christian interferes with your life in a negative way, handle the individual. putting down an entire religion is just ineffective. i realize i cannot be the thought police, and definitely not one to define your freedom of expression. so i will state the obvious : feel free to post whatever you want - whenever you want. but as a fellow member who has to cooperate in the board with you - please be thoughtful of the christians who aren't going around acting fucking stupid. if i see someone dissing stoners, i will be the one defending stoners - while acknowledging there are millions of dumb stoners, just not ALL of them....

As a Bible Thumper I'm supposed to respect my elders and love all of my family. Unfortunately as the individual in this body that can't happen. I won't start a whole thread about dysfunctional families because RIU isn't where it belongs. I will say that Mary Jane has helped where love could not....

The only religion i won't care about antagonizing is the corporate hollywood cult one. Scientology is not my cup of tea. I lived in Clearwater for a few years and labelled it psychoville. Every chance i get, i bash Largo Florida - actively - because the city(i worked for the city) fucked me over. 

I will say that the store simplyhydro is awesome, and so is the headshop near it : High tide. that is all though. the rest of the whole city could get hit by a hurricane and this Christian right here would have a frown - that was upside down.


----------



## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> Fixed it for ya, lol
> Two observations.
> 1) You're messy at it.
> 2) Nice sheets!
> ~giggling, ducking~ cn


...polarity bear strikes again


----------



## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> I need to spread some more seed...time for a divorce I think...


...ouch, I've had that thought a few times. Bad news all around.


----------



## mindphuk (Oct 27, 2011)

ziggittyzag420 said:


> If the BigBAng did occur,(remember at the begininng of everything supposedly)what possible evidence can scientist collect to prove it or disprove it?have scientist ever witnessed firsthand this miracle?


 Eye witness accounts is some of the least reliable evidence that can be used. Our senses are fooled all of the time. What we see and hear go through various filters in our brains that attempt to make sense based on certain preconceptions. This is why optical illusions work so well and magicians are able to bypass sensory information in order to make you see what they want and miss important clues as to how the trick is done. 

That you put so much emphasis on eye witness is the reason you don't understand the scientific method and that you are so easily duped into believing an event over 2000 years ago actually occurred if only because some people claimed to witness it (hearsay is even less reliable).


----------



## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

Basshead said:


> I don't care much for alot of things. but i don't go around antagonizing in an active manner. just do your thing man, don't worry about things inside of other people's heads. if a christian interferes with your life in a negative way, handle the individual. putting down an entire religion is just ineffective. i realize i cannot be the thought police, and definitely not one to define your freedom of expression. so i will state the obvious : feel free to post whatever you want - whenever you want. but as a fellow member who has to cooperate in the board with you - please be thoughtful of the christians who aren't going around acting fucking stupid. if i see someone dissing stoners, i will be the one defending stoners - while acknowledging there are millions of dumb stoners, just not ALL of them....
> 
> As a Bible Thumper I'm supposed to respect my elders and love all of my family. Unfortunately as the individual in this body that can't happen. I won't start a whole thread about dysfunctional families because RIU isn't where it belongs. I will say that Mary Jane has helped where love could not....
> 
> ...




...nicely done.


----------



## massah (Oct 27, 2011)

Basshead said:


> I don't care much for alot of things. but i don't go around antagonizing in an active manner. just do your thing man, don't worry about things inside of other people's heads. if a christian interferes with your life in a negative way, handle the individual. putting down an entire religion is just ineffective. i realize i cannot be the thought police, and definitely not one to define your freedom of expression. so i will state the obvious : feel free to post whatever you want - whenever you want. but as a fellow member who has to cooperate in the board with you - please be thoughtful of the christians who aren't going around acting fucking stupid. if i see someone dissing stoners, i will be the one defending stoners - while acknowledging there are millions of dumb stoners, just not ALL of them....
> 
> As a Bible Thumper I'm supposed to respect my elders and love all of my family. Unfortunately as the individual in this body that can't happen. I won't start a whole thread about dysfunctional families because RIU isn't where it belongs. I will say that Mary Jane has helped where love could not....
> 
> ...


LOL I had a coworker tell me yesterday he thinks aliens came here thousands of years ago and built things like the Pyramids in Egypt and that they are what people are actually worshiping throughout history...*cringe*


----------



## Basshead (Oct 27, 2011)

Crazy...UFO religions. I am a fan of funkadelic for fun....but Scientology, the Nation of Islam....Heaven's Gate (which had leutenant Uhura from star trek's brother) - all that stuff is...uh...not my religion....alot of people know the NOI is racist, but alot don't know its a UFO religion too


----------



## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 27, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> If you accept that all mammals follow the same evolutionary rules, look at what we have done with the wolf in ten thousand years. Corgis. Bassets. Borzois. Mastiffs. All from the same basic toolkit (wolf genome) using the same method (phenotype selection, the mechanism of natural selection) steered by artificial means (directed breeding). Giraffes evolved from other antelopes by an undirected breeding program ... the long-necked ones could graze more from trees.
> Most assuredly. One of the reasons the creationist community dislikes Richard Dawkins is because he worked on just that question, with positive result.
> 
> By asking the "firsthand" part, I am no longer convinced that the question is serious. Obviously to claim so is ridiculous.
> ...


Hmm interesting,you certianly do make a point,however,im still convinced the paranormal exist,u cant just pass it off as magic or fraud,they're far too many cases.As for Evolution,lol,Cannabineers response rips a huge rift in my thinking...but im still remaining faithful to GOD,i like to believe in a little magic and spirits and what not,i do alot of psychadelics,and when i do those things i feel closer to GOD,rip a few notes on my guitar,and just feel good about myself,happy:}.Its better to think of life as a constant struggle between good and evil, rather than (atheist)your born,live your life,die(than absolutely nothing after,your being,your thoughts,your spirit,just disappears)


----------



## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...well, what I am trying to say when I write about controlling ones mind is with respect to adverse thought. When I say 'most potent creative energy known to man' I mean his means to procreate (male and female). With it comes a whole slew of negative ('demonic', or inverse) trains of thought that leads one AWAY from progressing. No one that I know or have known says to keep the curiosity to a minimum. The devil is us, all of us. The ignorance is in not accepting that - imHo





eye exaggerate said:


> ...well, what I am trying to say when I write about controlling ones mind is with respect to adverse thought. When I say 'most potent creative energy known to man' I mean his means to procreate (male and female). With it comes a whole slew of negative ('demonic', or inverse) trains of thought that leads one AWAY from progressing. No one that I know or have known says to keep the curiosity to a minimum. The devil is us, all of us. The ignorance is in not accepting that - imHo


Ahhhh, we're getting better here, me likes. The big question then becomes, what is progressing? No one says to keep curiosity to a minimum, but they do say, often idirectly of course, that true understanding can become a rationalization for evil. For example, there was a certain baby born premature, sickly, very likely to die with a mother who had a history of unsuccessful pregnancies. Our ethics say a doctor saving such baby is a good thing. A true understanding of all events associated with it, which is impossible to have at the time, might say otherwise. Pragmatically speaking though it could be the best thing to just let the baby die. If we did that, let the baby die, people would certainly say its an entirely horrible thing. However a true understanding might rationalize away the evilness. Knowing that said baby would later grow up to write a.book detailing "his struggle" and eventually instigating a system of facism that ended up killing scores of millions of europeans and defaming germany for generations to come. I know the hitler example is played out, but it brings a point to my statement about the assumption of true understanding being a rationalization for evil. If you desire, apply the previous patern to stem cell research and christians.

I suppose after all that ots hard to find the tangibility of that...damn lemon haze  

Point being, the church does advize away from attempting a true understanding of things from all angles as arationalization for evils. Think, have you ever read the satanic bible? Given it is the antithesis of the Bible I would say it is worth understanding so as to in the least know how to counter argue it. However, you would be advised by the church to not do it, not not seek undestanding from all sides.


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Ahhhh, we're getting better here, me likes. The big question then becomes, what is progressing? No one says to keep curiosity to a minimum, but they do say, often idirectly of course, that true understanding can become a rationalization for evil. For example, there was a certain baby born premature, sickly, very likely to die with a mother who had a history of unsuccessful pregnancies. Our ethics say a doctor saving such baby is a good thing. A true understanding of all events associated with it, which is impossible to have at the time, might say otherwise. Pragmatically speaking though it could be the best thing to just let the baby die. If we did that, let the baby die, people would certainly say its an entirely horrible thing. However a true understanding might rationalize away the evilness. Knowing that said baby would later grow up to write a.book detailing "his struggle" and eventually instigating a system of facism that ended up killing scores of millions of europeans and defaming germany for generations to come. I know the hitler example is played out, but it brings a point to my statement about the assumption of true understanding being a rationalization for evil. If you desire, apply the previous patern to stem cell research and christians.
> 
> I suppose after all that ots hard to find the tangibility of that...damn lemon haze
> 
> Point being, the church does advize away from attempting a true understanding of things from all angles as arationalization for evils. Think, have you ever read the satanic bible? Given it is the antithesis of the Bible I would say it is worth understanding so as to in the least know how to counter argue it. However, you would be advised by the church to not do it, not not seek undestanding from all sides.


 well thats what religon is,if you believe in God and follow christian teachings,than obviously every other religon is wrong because you believe yours is right.Its just a human thing. And Filthy Phil,you listen to Cradle of Filth?just curious


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Ahhhh, we're getting better here, me likes. The big question then becomes, what is progressing? No one says to keep curiosity to a minimum, but they do say, often idirectly of course, that true understanding can become a rationalization for evil. For example, there was a certain baby born premature, sickly, very likely to die with a mother who had a history of unsuccessful pregnancies. Our ethics say a doctor saving such baby is a good thing. A true understanding of all events associated with it, which is impossible to have at the time, might say otherwise. Pragmatically speaking though it could be the best thing to just let the baby die. If we did that, let the baby die, people would certainly say its an entirely horrible thing. However a true understanding might rationalize away the evilness. Knowing that said baby would later grow up to write a.book detailing "his struggle" and eventually instigating a system of facism that ended up killing scores of millions of europeans and defaming germany for generations to come. I know the hitler example is played out, but it brings a point to my statement about the assumption of true understanding being a rationalization for evil. If you desire, apply the previous patern to stem cell research and christians.
> 
> I suppose after all that ots hard to find the tangibility of that...damn lemon haze
> 
> Point being, the church does advize away from attempting a true understanding of things from all angles as arationalization for evils. Think, have you ever read the satanic bible? Given it is the antithesis of the Bible I would say it is worth understanding so as to in the least know how to counter argue it. However, you would be advised by the church to not do it, not not seek undestanding from all sides.



...I can surely agree with some points here, but I'll say this in regard to what the church teaches / has taught me. "Go for it." That's what they say / have said to me on numerous occasions. Go for it. At the end of the day, we follow ourselves no matter what we believe. I am sure that all 'systems' know this. The safety net is there. Even a pure scientist can fall into mania and make questionable judgements. A system becomes like a red thread to follow back.

And they do say that knowledge is evil - you won't be able to be your childlike, selfish self again once you know all are one. To an ego, that's fckn hell!


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

ziggittyzag420 said:


> well thats what religon is,if you believe in God and follow christian teachings,than obviously every other religon is wrong because you believe yours is right.Its just a human thing. And Filthy Phil,you listen to Cradle of Filth?just curious





eye exaggerate said:


> ...I can surely agree with some points here, but I'll say this in regard to what the church teaches / has taught me. "Go for it." That's what they say / have said to me on numerous occasions. Go for it. At the end of the day, we follow ourselves no matter what we believe. I am sure that all 'systems' know this. The safety net is there. Even a pure scientist can fall into mania and make questionable judgements. A system becomes like a red thread to follow back.
> 
> And they do say that knowledge is evil - you won't be able to be your childlike, selfish self again once you know all are one. To an ego, that's fckn hell!


So then would it be safe to make the generalization the christianity, in ways , discourages degrees of free thinking at least?

And if so, can this be applied to modern science, ie. Carbon dating, cloning technology, stem cell research, and aspects of the human genome project? There are numerous historical examples, but how about these current ones? Any inhibitory views from the church on these?

And no, no cradle of filth... Filthy phil filanthropist, its a song, google it, and a hells angel founder, and a name dubbed me years ago...and it was my divine halo handle


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 27, 2011)

makes me laugh when i see christians on here complaining about being called dumb ...........how much dumber can you get than , belief without evidence .


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 27, 2011)

makes me laugh when atheists do the same shit and they arent swift enough to realize it


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> So then would it be safe to make the generalization the christianity, in ways , discourages degrees of free thinking at least?
> 
> And if so, can this be applied to modern science, ie. Carbon dating, cloning technology, stem cell research, and aspects of the human genome project? There are numerous historical examples, but how about these current ones? Any inhibitory views from the church on these?


...if I can be allowed to joke about it, then yes!  Without a tether all I can see is people flailing in the wind, or dropping like Icarus.

I don't think that I am in a position to be talking about the church's views on those subjects - I don't even know if churches agree with each other on them... especially if they're protestant  (I kidd)

There is no clear decision that I've read about the nature of length of 'times' quoted in the bible. And I am sure that (those forms of research) are ethical nightmares for anyone involved. Besides, isn't the group with the most cash going to 'win' anyway?


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

no, you see, that is where you are wrong masa... i dont read the bible cause i just dont read it... my Faith is in God and whether you like it or not, it does not bother me... my faith is unchanged




massah said:


> Well, when the majority of "christians" define their faith it usually includes faith IN the bible no?


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

not much of a debate there. sorry for asking




Hepheastus420 said:


> I accept the possibility of evolution since there's undeniable evidence.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

this is the message we have been trying to send to you all, but you just never got because you do not consider our side. 

to deny that evolution does not occur is a retard of a statement. there is plenty of evidence that cannot in my opinion be countered by any claim. If you understand it, there is no reason why one should not accept it.. now that is where our belief well at least mine falls, i understand what why i have my faith and that is a completely personal experience that cannot be replicated in a lab or anywhere else. A unique individual experience of the mind and body and soul





Filthy Phil said:


> Thank you heph, you are building points for yourself in my opinion, I am begining to appreciate your....paradigm view of the world. However, the whole judeao christian establishment disagrees with you on the "undeniable evidence " part. Hence one of our complaints for the list. Your veiws are seeming more and more interesting, however, they arent really congrous with the predominant views of the church


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

I believe in God, but i do not consider my belief to be supreme over all other religions. Everyone is a person with their own mind and with the ability to think for themselves and choose what they see fit. I am no one to tell you or anyone else what to think or what to believe in. That is where a lot of these atheists are wrong, they think since we believe in God, everything else is no good. I am not that way and think many others are not either.




ziggittyzag420 said:


> well thats what religon is,if you believe in God and follow christian teachings,than obviously every other religon is wrong because you believe yours is right.Its just a human thing. And Filthy Phil,you listen to Cradle of Filth?just curious


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 27, 2011)

and what most of you non-believers dont grasp is that even if you prove that the religions of the world are wrong and their gods dont exist...does that mean a god doesnt exist? thats a pretty bold statement for any human to make.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

> So then would it be safe to make the generalization the christianity, in ways , discourages degrees of free thinking at least?


no, it is not safe to say that. I am not hindered in my free thinking because i believe in God. what degrees are you referring to?



> the human genome project?


i think the human genome project is a discrimination towards individuals with genetic abnormalities. We discussed this in one of my anthro classes, i just wish i had access to my discussions to post on here, but i dont.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

massah said:


> Then you question your faith in the bible


Lol, no shit Sherlock. I've said so many times that I question my beliefs....


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Thank you heph, you are building points for yourself in my opinion, I am begining to appreciate your....paradigm view of the world. However, the whole judeao christian establishment disagrees with you on the "undeniable evidence " part. Hence one of our complaints for the list. Your veiws are seeming more and more interesting, however, they arent really congrous with the predominant views of the church


 thanks man.

But this is why I have a problem with people grouping Christians together. I personally know many Christians that know the bible seems a little on the crazy side.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 27, 2011)

heph seriousley you are unrecognisable as a christian , it seems you think you can make up your own little version of christianity , and that seems to be your answer to everything now 'not all christians do that ' a real christian should be like that westbourough church lot , at least they actualy live upto gods word lol .


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> makes me laugh when i see christians on here complaining about being called dumb ...........how much dumber can you get than , belief without evidence .


Well you're living proof that religious people can get much more dumb....
You're a joke sativa.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> heph seriousley you are unrecognisable as a christian , it seems you think you can make up your own little version of christianity , and that seems to be your answer to everything now 'not all christians do that ' a real christian should be like that westbourough church lot , at least they actualy live upto gods word lol .


Lol, obviously you have no idea of how religion works. I make conclusions based on scriptures.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 27, 2011)

99% of christians i have ever met would honestly say you are not a christian , and that you have made up your own cult ,using the name 'christianity' to gain some kind of credability for your cult .


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> 99% of christians i have ever met would honestly say you are not a christian , and that you have made up your own cult ,using the name 'christianity' to gain some kind of credability for your cult .


Hmm no wonder you don't like Christians. The Christians you know are just as judgmental as you.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 27, 2011)

i just think your a very confused bean . you admit you believe in a god with no evidence of his existance , and now each day you distance yourself more from what we all know as christianity .i really think you should start over with your thoughts n beliefs and really think about what it is you actually believe in , if anything .


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i just think your a very confused bean . you admit you believe in a god with no evidence of his existance , and now each day you distance yourself more from what we all know as christianity .i really think you should start over with your thoughts n beliefs and really think about what it is you actually believe in , if anything .


 Surprisingly I'm getting closer to my god.... 
How am I distancing myself?


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 27, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> 99% of christians i have ever met would honestly say you are not a christian , and that you have made up your own cult ,using the name 'christianity' to gain some kind of credability for your cult .


dont you have to try and make people join for it to be a cult? you have a fucked up tunnel vision way of seein a situation


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Surprisingly I'm getting closer to my god....
> How am I distancing myself?


 how are you getting closer to something you cant prove exists ?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> how are you getting closer to something you cant prove exists ?


I'm learning from my god.... It's also metaphorical, I'm not physically getting closer to my god.
Can you get emotionally close to someone? Well so can I.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 27, 2011)

back to the threads intentions ...........................multiple partners , christianity made it a sin for man to have more than 1 sex partner , wich sucks .


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> back to the threads intentions ...........................multiple partners , christianity made it a sin for man to have more than 1 sex partner , wich sucks .


Christianity has no hold on how many people you want to fuck.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I'm learning from my god.... It's also metaphorical, I'm not physically getting closer to my god.
> Can you get emotionally close to someone? Well so can I.


 i think i would actualy have to meet someone or communicate with them (and that means two ways not you just speaking to your god then imagining its speaking back) ., to get emotionally close to someone .


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i think i would actualy have to meet someone or communicate with them (and that means two ways not you just speaking to your god then imagining its speaking back) ., to get emotionally close to someone .


Do you think we make imaginary voices in our heads? 
Well I guess you can't get emotionally close to someone without being face to face, but I can.


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## ginjawarrior (Oct 27, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> and what most of you non-believers dont grasp is that even if you prove that the religions of the world are wrong and their gods dont exist...does that mean a god doesnt exist? thats a pretty bold statement for any human to make.


if it were possible to show to everyone that their religion is made up and that their gods are some figment of some cattle herders imagination way back in the day, and that their vision of god they carried around with them was demonstrably false what would that leave us?

you say there could still be a "god" but he would he care about anything that happens on this rock? he hasn't demanded worship he hasn't damned us to eternity in hell or said he'll supplying us with virgins on our glorious deaths, why would you be so presumptuous as to beleive that he was always looking down on you 

what relevence would he have to me? should i just assume that he's there and spend my whole life dedicated to worshiping him (he hasn't given me any instructions to) 

without religious texts/ dogma god has no relevance the only relevance you ascribe to him is what you have been taught as part of your religion


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> heph seriousley you are unrecognisable as a christian , it seems you think you can make up your own little version of christianity , and that seems to be your answer to everything now 'not all christians do that ' a real christian should be like that westbourough church lot , at least they actualy live upto gods word lol .





olylifter420 said:


> no, it is not safe to say that. I am not hindered in my free thinking because i believe in God. what degrees are you referring to?
> 
> 
> 
> i think the human genome project is a discrimination towards individuals with genetic abnormalities. We discussed this in one of my anthro classes, i just wish i had access to my discussions to post on here, but i dont.


First of, please.read through that chain of comments, we have come to the logical and agreed upon conclusion that in some forms it desires you to not understand everything fully.

Secondly, a beliefe in the existance of A god is not tantamount to saying christianity is correct. The statement that a god exists does not indicate or imply any other assertions. Each following assertion is independant of the statement of if a god exists. Religion, and christianity, is LOT more than saying "a god exists" how much more in there in christianity is there that is assumed due to the asssertion that a god exists.

Why cant god be a purple dragon that gains enjoyment off our pain instead of a murdered son of a virgin? Both are kust as assumable and rediculous


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 27, 2011)

ginjawarrior said:


> if it were possible to show to everyone that their religion is made up and that their gods are some figment of some cattle herders imagination way back in the day, and that their vision of god they carried around with them was demonstrably false what would that leave us?
> 
> you say there could still be a "god" but he would he care about anything that happens on this rock? he hasn't demanded worship he hasn't damned us to eternity in hell or said he'll supplying us with virgins on our glorious deaths, why would you be so presumptuous as to beleive that he was always looking down on you
> 
> ...


i honestly think it wouldnt do a damn thing if all religion was proven false. i mean sure some would freak out, but the majority would hold their ideas as true as they were before. what i was tryin to get across with that post is that you can bicker and fight all you want but NOBODY knows if there really is a god or not


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> heph seriousley you are unrecognisable as a christian , it seems you think you can make up your own little version of christianity , and that seems to be your answer to everything now 'not all christians do that ' a real christian should be like that westbourough church lot , at least they actualy live upto gods word lol .





Hepheastus420 said:


> Do you think we make imaginary voices in our heads?
> Well I guess you can't get emotionally close to someone without being face to face, but I can.


The character Rachel on friends exists, but if you said you were in love with her, people would assume you crazy.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

dude, seriously, you are a joke. what the hell is it to you if heph thinks differently then those christians you claim to have met? do you depend on heph for money or something? 






ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i just think your a very confused bean . you admit you believe in a god with no evidence of his existance , and now each day you distance yourself more from what we all know as christianity .i really think you should start over with your thoughts n beliefs and really think about what it is you actually believe in , if anything .


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

religion made atheist assholes like you, nOOOOOOO

now we have to hear your retarded slurs




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> back to the threads intentions ...........................multiple partners , christianity made it a sin for man to have more than 1 sex partner , wich sucks .


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

> Why cant god be a purple dragon that gains enjoyment off our pain instead of a murdered son of a virgin? B


if thats what you want it to be, then do so... it is up to you. some people across the world worship cows and that is their god, so why cant a purple dragon be your vision of god?


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## Legalize the Herb (Oct 27, 2011)

What are your opinions of rastafarianism?


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

smoke weed everyday


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## sen.c (Oct 27, 2011)

> If someone tells you to test something for yourself they are obviously not expecting you to believe it, they are expecting you to verify it. They are in fact saying 'don't believe me, here is what lead me to this conclusion, see if you believe it'. That is what propents of the big bang and evolution have to offer, and what Christians lack. You like to denounce evolution because you think doing so somehow lends credence to creationism, yet you have never taken the time to understand it. You have only taken the time to pretend to understand it, to constantly proclaim how genuine you are, without actually bothering to add substance to your criticism.
> 
> "You can try and justify all you want but you still got nothing." <-- imagine if science took this attitude. How about saying "If you justify it sufficiently then I will consider it". How can we trust such an inconsistent and backwards mind such as the one you display to come to an accurate conclusion? We have been willing to let you justify your assertions and we consider them seriously and give you a thoughtful response. You give us tricks, posturing and zero justification, in other words


Here we go again, all your big words and grandious lecturing but still nothing. There are very valid and provable things that science has given us and there some very stupid thigs that they expect us to believe as well. There has been plenty of substance to my past criticism but it always ends up instead of you saying "hey you may have a point there" you would rather explain it off as someone is not educated enough to understand or it is not a fair question.

It really amazes me that you and the like are so against anything that could be construed as "Christian" that you would rather make up new ideas and theories than delve into the possibility that maybe you are looking in the wrong direction. It really could be dangerous to have so much contempt for something you know nothing about.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> dude, seriously, you are a joke. what the hell is it to you if heph thinks differently then those christians you claim to have met? do you depend on heph for money or something?


I dont think that we dislike hephs version of christianity, I for one wish more had some of his views. The issue is that by heph saying "i am a christian, and i'm not like that, thus other christians are also like that" which we know to be false. There are other christians out there like him, sure, but they are a very small fraction, certainly not exemplary of most christians.

A person is an exception to a rule, but 500 million people, we can start to establish trends.


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## ginjawarrior (Oct 27, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> i honestly think it wouldnt do a damn thing if all religion was proven false. i mean sure some would freak out, but the majority would hold their ideas as true as they were before. what i was tryin to get across with that post is that you can bicker and fight all you want but NOBODY knows if there really is a god or not


im not sure you read rest of the post before you went for that reply button

my point is without the religious texts or dogma "god" loses all relevance

very interested by this tho "*the **majority would hold their ideas as true*" you gave a hypothetical situation where i could *prove* someones religion to be false. to me that means i'd have undeniable evidence for that fact. is this an admission from you that the majority of religious people are closed minded and will deny the undeniable rather than face the truth and accept they were living a lie?


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

sen.c said:


> Here we go again, all your big words and grandious lecturing but still nothing. There are very valid and provable things that science has given us and there some very stupid thigs that they expect us to believe as well. There has been plenty of substance to my past criticism but it always ends up instead of you saying "hey you may have a point there" you would rather explain it off as someone is not educated enough to understand or it is not a fair question.
> 
> It really amazes me that you and the like are so against anything that could be construed as "Christian" that you would rather make up new ideas and theories than delve into the possibility that maybe you are looking in the wrong direction. It really could be dangerous to have so much contempt for something you know nothing about.


"we" arent making these up, vast groups of other people have. This is common oppinion outside the insular bubbles of religion. I wish I could take credit for all these ideas...like big bang theory, I wish I could take credit for that. It was teams of brilliant minds more educated and intelligent than ours who came up with such theories.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

I thinks its more like 2 billion...

I get what your are saying and respect that man... the thing is , a lot of us on here get targeted and treated as if we are some extreme christian which we are not... i have tried to tell you all that but most dont listen




Filthy Phil said:


> I dont think that we dislike hephs version of christianity, I for one wish more had some of his views. The issue is that by heph saying "i am a christian, and i'm not like that, thus other christians are also like that" which we know to be false. There are other christians out there like him, sure, but they are a very small fraction, certainly not exemplary of most christians.
> 
> A person is an exception to a rule, but 500 million people, we can start to establish trends.


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## sen.c (Oct 27, 2011)

Well guys all I can say is that it sure is funny that the same people we are dealing with in this thread are the same people that stood in the presence of Jesus as he preformed miracles and were still to dumb to put two and two together and see that he in fact was the son of God.

Why is this? They all thought that their God was something other than what he was, it is no suprise to me that people think the way these guys do it has been happening since the begining of time.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Lol we are treated like extremists sometimes....


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

Another thing christianity has made worse : life for black cats.


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## ginjawarrior (Oct 27, 2011)

sen.c said:


> Here we go again, all your *big words and grandious lecturing* but still nothing.


*el·o·quence*

_noun_ \&#712;e-l&#601;-kw&#601;n(t)s\


*Definition of ELOQUENCE*

1
*:* discourse marked by force and persuasiveness; _also_ *:* the art or power of using such discourse 

2
*:* the quality of forceful or persuasive expressiveness

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eloquence

you can huff and puff all you want but heisenberg is just saying it as it is


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## sen.c (Oct 27, 2011)

> "we" arent making these up, vast groups of other people have. This is common oppinion outside the insular bubbles of religion. I wish I could take credit for all these ideas...like big bang theory, I wish I could take credit for that. It was teams of brilliant minds more educated and intelligent than ours who came up with such theories.


Yeah, they aren't making anything up new. Then how about all the new "Ancient Aliens" is something really so bad that people have to come up with this type of stuff to hang their hat on rather than take the time and research the other side. I think it is just fear, fear of the fact that they may realize that all they have done up till that point meant nothing so they run like their heads on fire and their ass is catching.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> I thinks its more like 2 billion...
> 
> I get what your are saying and respect that man... the thing is , a lot of us on here get targeted and treated as if we are some extreme christian which we are not... i have tried to tell you all that but most dont listen


Ahhh...yes, I see. Understand, we KNOW you are an extreme christian, just not that kind of extreme chrisitan. You're on the side of extreme that I prefer:extremely more normal. We all recognize that the predominant christian wouldnt be on a weed site to begin with.


However, to the secular us, any christianity is extreme, we view the whole thing as extremely absurd, thus feeling like all christians are just a little extreme (recognized owymoron)


----------



## ginjawarrior (Oct 27, 2011)

sen.c said:


> Yeah, they aren't making anything up new. Then how about all the new "Ancient Aliens" is something really so bad that people have to come up with this type of stuff to hang their hat on rather than take the time and research the other side. I think it is just fear, fear of the fact that they may realize that all they have done up till that point meant nothing so they run like their heads on fire and their ass is catching.


 ancient aliens *IS NOT SCIENCE*


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

sen.c said:


> Well guys all I can say is that it sure is funny that the same people we are dealing with in this thread are the same people that stood in the presence of Jesus as he preformed miracles and were still to dumb to put two and two together and see that he in fact was the son of God.
> 
> Why is this? They all thought that their God was something other than what he was, it is no suprise to me that people think the way these guys do it has been happening since the begining of time.


Hahaha....and William Walace was 12 feet tall, shot lightning bolts from his eyes and balls of fire from his ass! Ask any TRUE Irishman.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

sen.c said:


> Yeah, they aren't making anything up new. Then how about all the new "Ancient Aliens" is something really so bad that people have to come up with this type of stuff to hang their hat on rather than take the time and research the other side. I think it is just fear, fear of the fact that they may realize that all they have done up till that point meant nothing so they run like their heads on fire and their ass is catching.


I ascent to believe in any diety. If history shows us anything, it is more likely we are wrong about something so complex than to be right about it. I think everyone has it wrong...but the budhists got it half right


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## sen.c (Oct 27, 2011)

> you ca huff and puff all you want but heisenberg is just saying it as it is


He hasn't said anything, but then again if you think eloquent speach makes someone right then I guess you voted for Obama and you see what his eloquence has done for us.


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## sen.c (Oct 27, 2011)

> ancient aliens *IS NOT SCIENCE*


Keep telling yourself that.


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## ginjawarrior (Oct 27, 2011)

sen.c said:


> He hasn't said anything, but then again if you think eloquent speach makes someone right then I guess you voted for Obama and you see what his eloquence has done for us.


 ad hom? strawman? 
heis spoke in a rational way without attacks and in a very clear manner if you were unable to take meaning from it thats not any ones fault apart from your own


oh and im not american


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## ginjawarrior (Oct 27, 2011)

sen.c said:


> Keep telling yourself that.


i do not believe in ancient aliens and neither does the scientific community


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> I ascent to believe in any diety. If history shows us anything, it is more likely we are wrong about something so complex than to be right about it. I think everyone has it wrong...but the budhists got it half right


What makes budhists less wrong than other religions?


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 27, 2011)

ginjawarrior said:


> i do not believe in ancient aliens and neither does the scientific community


because you speak for the scientific community? aa is very logical and if you dont see it youre blind


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

ginjawarrior said:


> i do not believe in ancient aliens and neither does the scientific community


That's what the aliens want you to think, .


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## ginjawarrior (Oct 27, 2011)

ginjawarrior said:


> i do not believe in ancient aliens and neither does the scientific community


 forgot to add the conclusions of "ancient aliens" were not arrived with scientific rigor just because some crackpots believe something and write books on it does not make it science


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

sen.c said:


> He hasn't said anything, but then again if you think eloquent speach makes someone right then I guess you voted for Obama and you see what his eloquence has done for us.


Yes, I did, and for a whole other forum, fuck you guys for stonewalling him...some direction right now is better than none. By the way, you are the most rude and least capable of anyone commenting on here. Dont you have some statistic of mediocrity somewhere to be filling?


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## ginjawarrior (Oct 27, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> because you speak for the scientific community? aa is very logical and if you dont see it youre blind



you should understand something *the history channel isnt to be trusted * 

while i am not an offical spoke person in any way shape or form for the scientific community i am more than confident on this issue to say NO THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANCIENT ALIENS


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> What makes budhists less wrong than other religions?


Their religion is less.involved in the end game, and their basic premises ring inarguably true to me (those premises being life is pain, pain is caused by desire, if a person can limit their desire they can limit their pain and ultimately letting go is the path to painlessness.

Also, they are great because the way I see them treat people makes me want to be like them, as opposed to judeo christian themed religio.s which make me feel arogant (to be honest) because I see so much behavior as despiseable.

They have never wrung my doorbell and given me a pamphlet

And they dont tell you that you are wrong, (usually), they just feel they are correct. That is refreshingly enlightened.

The buddhists have the best parts of all the religion without, from what I have witnessed, all the bullshit. Look at thailand, one of the most buddhist countries in the world. Soooooooo chill. They also have like the largest amount of transgenders. They accept it, disagree, but accept it and are cool with it. Such great people. On the other hand, christians are so crass.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

ginjawarrior said:


> ad hom? strawman?
> heis spoke in a rational way without attacks and in a very clear manner if you were unable to take meaning from it thats not any ones fault apart from your own
> 
> 
> oh and im not american


who's strawman? Is that me? Didnt someone call me that earlier? Or is this a handle I havent seen?


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ancient aliens is not science. 

Bullshit like that perpetuates the ignorant pseudoscience movement.

The entire series is them basically saying "there's no way this could have happened unless aliens did it!" without presenting any evidence to suggest that's what happened. Does anyone else notice the similarities between that and religion?


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## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2011)

sen.c said:


> Here we go again, all your big words and grandious lecturing but still nothing. There are very valid and provable things that science has given us and there some very stupid thigs that they expect us to believe as well. There has been plenty of substance to my past criticism but it always ends up instead of you saying "hey you may have a point there" you would rather explain it off as someone is not educated enough to understand or it is not a fair question.
> 
> It really amazes me that you and the like are so against anything that could be construed as "Christian" that you would rather make up new ideas and theories than delve into the possibility that maybe you are looking in the wrong direction. It really could be dangerous to have so much contempt for something you know nothing about.


I am not going to dumb down my words to please you. Why do you resent big words? This is not the first time you have complained about my articulation, are you lacking actual valid criticism of me? Do you have trouble understanding what I am saying? If not, then shut up about the words I use. Speaking on the side of reason and rationality is not lecturing, it is explaining. You make a lot of statements that are not well thought out, I am simply thinking them through and asking questions. And as for providing nothing, should I link to the standard theories of evolution and physics? Are these not things you can find on your own? What is it you expect me to provide that would be ground breaking for you? I would ask specifically what you think is wrong with these theories, but we have been down that road before, and the answer is simply that you do not understand them. That is not to say you are not educated enough to understand them, but that you are too lazy and biased. I do not doubt your intellect, just your integrity. Science never asks anyone to believe something without providing extensive data and rationale. Do not pretend as if science does a pretty good job most of the time but occasionally tries to slip in deceit. Science is transparent, forthright and begs for criticism and correction. Evolution and the big bang are supported because they are the most likely to be true. The only problem with these theories that you have successfully demonstrated is that they conflict with the way you want things to be.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Ancient aliens is not science.
> 
> Bullshit like that perpetuates the ignorant pseudoscience movement.
> 
> The entire series is them basically saying "there's no way this could have happened unless aliens did it!" without presenting any evidence to suggest that's what happened. Does anyone else notice the similarities between that and religion?


In Sen's little song and dance, this is known as a key change. I can't attack real science so let me switch to Mr Strawman.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 27, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Ancient aliens is not science.
> 
> Bullshit like that perpetuates the ignorant pseudoscience movement.
> 
> The entire series is them basically saying "there's no way this could have happened unless aliens did it!" without presenting any evidence to suggest that's what happened. Does anyone else notice the similarities between that and religion?


im pretty sure every claim they make is explained and why they came to that conclusion. now is everything they say true? i dont think so, but i mean some of the shit cannot be explained like the platform in balbac or the churches in lalibela...how about the group of ppl that went out to graph one of the unchartered places in russia all of a sudden are dead half of them in 10 days aged at a crazy rate and 3 of the others were imploded from the inside and their skin was fully intact...how the fuck does science explain that? hypothermia? lmao please dude


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## ginjawarrior (Oct 27, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> im pretty sure every claim they make is explained and why they came to that conclusion. now is everything they say true? i dont think so, but i mean some of the shit cannot be explained like the platform in balbac or the churches in lalibela...how about the group of ppl that went out to graph one of the unchartered places in russia all of a sudden are dead half of them in 10 days aged at a crazy rate and 3 of the others were imploded from the inside and their skin was fully intact...how the fuck does science explain that? hypothermia? lmao please dude


 have you a link or source or even episode of any of those "facts"?

again history channel is not a good source of anything "factual"


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## cannabineer (Oct 27, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> because you speak for the scientific community? aa is very logical and if you dont see it youre blind


It is, however, not rational enough. Imo "ancient aliens" ideas can be divided into three camps or groupings:
1) "wouldn't it be cool if ..." or "I want to believe this."
2) "The following facts and factoids can be reconciled with ancient aliens, and I choose to advance 'plausible' to 'done deal'." or "I'm going to believe this."
3) "I've lined all my hats with conductive materials. Now that I've foiled (uuhh...) the great mind control conspiracy, it's amazing how much more clearly I think now than everone around me!" or "Can you believe this!"

There isn't a single "ancient aliens" claim that hasn't (to my knowledge) been reduced to mincemeat by qualified investigators, including but not limited to scientists. It's as dodgy ... and yet as popular ... as the "current aliens" meme in all its varicolored glorious goofy manifestations. cn


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## ginjawarrior (Oct 27, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> who's strawman? Is that me? Didnt someone call me that earlier? Or is this a handle I havent seen?


 *strawman*


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 27, 2011)

lol everytime i come back on this thread,theirs 100 more comments,how'd the hell we end up talking about aliens?the only aliens i believe in are illegal ones  lol


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 27, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> im pretty sure every claim they make is explained and why they came to that conclusion. now is everything they say true? i dont think so, but i mean some of the shit cannot be explained like the platform in balbac or the churches in lalibela...how about the group of ppl that went out to graph one of the unchartered places in russia all of a sudden are dead half of them in 10 days aged at a crazy rate and 3 of the others were imploded from the inside and their skin was fully intact...how the fuck does science explain that? hypothermia? lmao please dude


How do you go from "cannot be explained" to "...aliens!"?


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Ancient aliens is not science.
> 
> Bullshit like that perpetuates the ignorant pseudoscience movement.
> 
> The entire series is them basically saying "there's no way this could have happened unless aliens did it!" without presenting any evidence to suggest that's what happened. Does anyone else notice the similarities between that and religion?


Yes. The elimination "of all percievable" explanation leads them to make an assumption. The problem is what they find to be percievable is not all that is


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 27, 2011)

ginjawarrior said:


> have you a link or source or even episode of any of those "facts"?
> 
> again history channel is not a good source of anything "factual"


links comin this one starts 10:03 into the vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTYE0aU3xeI
hmmmm hypothermia? i fuckin doubt that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElsLeeC6thE
this one has lalibela and balbec(sp) in this one.

after i watched those in my head i dont need any evidence besides what i see. what i see is two cases where amazin shit has been built...one in which we still cant recreate which is balbec...and no kinda way to explain them. you're tellin me our ancestors were makin shit that we would have trouble makin today if we even could....with sharpened rocks at that lol. im open for any explination to these and if im proven wrong ill be the first to say hey i was fuckin wrong you were right. 




cannabineer said:


> It is, however, not rational enough. Imo "ancient aliens" ideas can be divided into three camps or groupings:
> 1) "wouldn't it be cool if ..." or "I want to believe this."
> 2) "The following facts and factoids can be reconciled with ancient aliens, and I choose to advance 'plausible' to 'done deal'." or "I'm going to believe this."
> 3) "I've lined all my hats with conductive materials. Now that I've foiled (uuhh...) the great mind control conspiracy, it's amazing how much more clearly I think now than everone around me!" or "Can you believe this!"
> ...



watch those videos aswell and then tell me its bullshit. never once have i wanted to believe that aliens were the reason why we thought we had gods and all that, not once.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 27, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> How do you go from "cannot be explained" to "...aliens!"?


ok well how do you explain the parts of our ancestors pasts that cannot be explained by normal methods? in my head there is 3 options 1.aliens 2.gods 3.our ancestors were very fuckin crafty...alot more than we are today. what other options are there?


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 27, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> I believe in God, but i do not consider my belief to be supreme over all other religions. Everyone is a person with their own mind and with the ability to think for themselves and choose what they see fit. I am no one to tell you or anyone else what to think or what to believe in. That is where a lot of these atheists are wrong, they think since we believe in God, everything else is no good. i am not that way and think many others are not either.


 i dont believe this either.i was just using it as an example,for instance like the christians and atheists on this thread,each side thinks they're 100% correct and other sides full of s***.i can tolerate other religons,like buddhism ,muzlims,even Satanist(at least they believe in my God)i tolerated Atheism until i came upon this antichristian thread lol.the lesson on this thread is as long as you dont believe in ancient earth aliens,your not a total dipshit lmao.i remember i hada smoke sess. with my friend,and he was telling me all this FAR OUT shit like ancient aliens fused their DNA with the DNA of primeapes,and thus we were created...I TOLD HIM NO MORE GREEN FOR HIM xp LOL


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## cannabineer (Oct 27, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> links comin this one starts 10:03 into the vid
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTYE0aU3xeI
> hmmmm hypothermia? i fuckin doubt that
> 
> ...


 
I endured that first video. It's complete bullshit imo.
There was a long segment about the Japanese suicide forest, with highfalutin terms like Ancient Alien Theorists** (insert facepalm here) and a veritable phalanx of would, could, maybe, how about, what if. At one point one of these Theorists** mentioned electromagnetic energy. Oh good, I thought; at least this can be measured. No maps, no numbers, no further explanation. I would imagine that if anything WAS there to measure, they'd have shown data and done a victory dance.
The second segment stinks of hoax. There is no chain of evidence linking any of those corpse photos to the described incident. I think the whole story is a put-on, without any fact to support it. Can we as Westerners even verify the occurrence and membership of the alleged expedition? 

So yes; I call bullshit. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and a clip from a series of fiction dressed up as serious inquiry into reality doesn't begin to satisfy me. I find it significant that the Urals incident occurred in post-Stalin Russia, where the evidence can and routinely was made to disappear. 

After the simply awful investigative standards displayed by that first segment (complete with eerie evocative music and new-school machine-gun video editing!) I'll say I won't pay attention unless higher-quality info that has been through peer review (by scientists, not Theorists**) can be produced.

Humans have this amazingly strong and resilient capacity for superstition and spirit-power ideation. All it takes ime to believe in magic is to want to believe, and our hard-wiring handles the rest. Nature however is indifferent to our wishful stories of spirit and powerThere is some ancient tug deep in my mind-meat that wants to trust the bringers of tales of magic ... however My experience has taught me consistently that this trust is not the friend of reason. cn


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## silasraven (Oct 27, 2011)

skunkpunk13 said:


> and another thing...... how would jebus feel about ur drug use let alone the other members of ur churrch?????? cough cough hypocrit after all isnt ur body a insterment of jesus and how can u correctly spread the "scripture of christ" on a head full of mushrooms....... seems more like a scape goat and a convenient way to attemp to make ur life have some sort of meaning thru out ur boring menial life of judging and hating oh yeah and i love the fact that when u get into a argument about how ridiculous Christianity is and how there beliefs are so misconstrued 99% of them react with anger tisk tisk jesus frowns upon that


as a christian i do believe that jesus consumed cannabis. not smoke but what do you think was in everones bread and meals? its on the spice rack bro! its gunna get used


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 27, 2011)

Y


blazinkill504 said:


> ok well how do you explain the parts of our ancestors pasts that cannot be explained by normal methods? in my head there is 3 options 1.aliens 2.gods 3.our ancestors were very fuckin crafty...alot more than we are today. what other options are there?


How do I explain the unexplainable parts of our ancestors past? If I could do that, it wouldn't be unexplainable, right?

There are bound to be undocumented events in the past, they didn't record everything. What I keep trying to point out to you though is that you are simply being led to a conclusion based on assumptions. I watch ancient aliens all the time, whenever i catch it on, and it pisses me off to no end! Pay attention to the commentary, they simply ask questions without providing answers, just like they do with paranormal shows, and have nothing to connect 'pyramids' to 'aliens'. Nothing. 

It is exponentially more likely that humans created these monuments and we haven't figured out exactly how than an alien race traversed light years of deep space and (insert any ancient aliens theory here).


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

it is a type of fallacy in an argument





Filthy Phil said:


> who's strawman? Is that me? Didnt someone call me that earlier? Or is this a handle I havent seen?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Their religion is less.involved in the end game, and their basic premises ring inarguably true to me (those premises being life is pain, pain is caused by desire, if a person can limit their desire they can limit their pain and ultimately letting go is the path to painlessness.
> 
> Also, they are great because the way I see them treat people makes me want to be like them, as opposed to judeo christian themed religio.s which make me feel arogant (to be honest) because I see so much behavior as despiseable.
> 
> ...


Let's say there's a god.
He loves afterlife. And he loves evil. 

So wouldn't the budhists be wrong? My point is that we don't which religion is right. Each religion takes a stab at the unknown. But who's to say that the budhists are closer to the unknown truth than other religions.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

i dont get it, you say you dont believe this either, then you use it as an example 




ziggittyzag420 said:


> i dont believe this either,just using it as an example,for instance like the christians and atheists on this thread,each side thinks they're 100% correct and other sides full of s***.i can tolerate other religons,like buddhism ,muzlims,even Satanist(at least they believe in my God)i tolerated Atheism until i came upon this antichristian thread lol.the lesson on this thread is as long as you dont believe in ancient earth aliens,your not a total dipshit lmao.i remember i hada smoke sess. with my friend,and he was telling me all this FAR OUT shit like ancient aliens fused their DNA with the DNA of primeapes,and thus we were created...I TOLD HIM NO MORE GREEN FOR HIM xp LOL


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## olylifter420 (Oct 27, 2011)

That is cool that you accept me even though i believe in God.. i have nothing against anyone on here except for the fact that they talk shit about my beliefs when i have not shared my views with them in any way.

i do know what i mean about extreme christianity, but i do not bring up ever because i know what bullshit it is and i know how you all will pounce on it as soon i mention it. A lot on here think that at least i am blind to the fact what people have done in the name of a religion in the past. That is something i have had no part in or ever will... that is extremely stupid of people to take things out context and do stupid shit. Like i said on another post, i am a simple kind of guy that does not put too much thought into this whole religion/atheism crap cause there is no end...

im glad we could agree on something





Filthy Phil said:


> Ahhh...yes, I see. Understand, we KNOW you are an extreme christian, just not that kind of extreme chrisitan. You're on the side of extreme that I prefer:extremely more normal. We all recognize that the predominant christian wouldnt be on a weed site to begin with.
> 
> 
> However, to the secular us, any christianity is extreme, we view the whole thing as extremely absurd, thus feeling like all christians are just a little extreme (recognized owymoron)


----------



## mindphuk (Oct 27, 2011)

sen.c said:


> Well guys all I can say is that it sure is funny that the same people we are dealing with in this thread are the same people that stood in the presence of Jesus as he preformed miracles and were still to dumb to put two and two together and see that he in fact was the son of God.
> 
> Why is this? They all thought that their God was something other than what he was, it is no suprise to me that people think the way these guys do it has been happening since the begining of time.


 Maybe because they knew the Hebrew bible better than most where God says in Deut 13 not to believe or follow anyone that claims magic powers or prophecy because God himself will instill those powers to test the Jews. The Jews apparently were smart enough to avoid tricksters and faith healers like Jesus and wait for someone that actually fulfilled messianic prophecy.


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 27, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> i dont get it, you say you dont believe this either, then you use it as an example


 i dont believe my religon is supreme over all others,their should be a period behind either not a comma srry for the typo too much DXM (O)_(O)


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 27, 2011)

DXM!!!! whooo!!!!


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 27, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> Maybe because they knew the Hebrew bible better than most where God says in Deut 13 not to believe or follow anyone that claims magic powers or prophecy because God himself will instill those powers to test the Jews. The Jews apparently were smart enough to avoid tricksters and faith healers like Jesus and wait for someone that actually fulfilled messianic prophecy.


what a mind fuck (pun intended)


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> DXM!!!! whooo!!!!


 i popped 14 Dexalones 30 mg and smoked a few bongs of some juicy fruit,i feel like ive been typing foreverrr.....


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## ziggittyzag420 (Oct 27, 2011)

lol ima log off i feel a huge wave coming on


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## sen.c (Oct 27, 2011)

*Deuteronomy 13*



*1*If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 
*2*And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 
*3*Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 
*4*Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. 
*5*And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee. 
*6*If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 
*7*Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 
*8*Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 
*9*But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 
*10*And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 
*11*And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you. 
*12*If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, 
*13*Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 
*14*Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 
*15*Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 
*16*And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. 
*17*And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers; *18*When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.

Clearly from the text you posted that is not what was meant and it is clear, nice twist on it though if someone doesn't read it in context I could see them being confused.


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## mindphuk (Oct 27, 2011)

sen.c said:


> *Deuteronomy 13*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are the one that is confused. You cannot read it any other way. I'll leave it up to others to judge.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Let's say there's a god.
> He loves afterlife. And he loves evil.
> 
> So wouldn't the budhists be wrong? My point is that we don't which religion is right. Each religion takes a stab at the unknown. But who's to say that the budhists are closer to the unknown truth than other religions.


THANK YOU, WE AGREE! WE DONT KNOW WHICH RELIGION IS RIGHT!!! Thats basically agnosticism...i believe none of them have it right.

Like I said, because budhism isnt centered around a diety as much as it is a way of living, its got it mostly right

And believing a god exists, why do any of the religions have to be right about it? Could be the purple.dragon god. No one knows. In the end...its faith.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> ok well how do you explain the parts of our ancestors pasts that cannot be explained by normal methods? in my head there is 3 options 1.aliens 2.gods 3.our ancestors were very fuckin crafty...alot more than we are today. what other options are there?


The absence of an explanation that makes sense doesnt mean that the less sensible explanations are correct, it means you dont know the corr we ct explanation. Pretty simple right? Just because you dont have a better explanation doesnt mean youre correct..


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## sen.c (Oct 27, 2011)

> You are the one that is confused. You cannot read it any other way. I'll leave it up to others to judge.


I am truly sorry that your reading comprehension skills aren't as good as your talking skills. It is quite obvious what the passage is saying but maybe you just can't figure it out, I expected more from you.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> because you speak for the scientific community? aa is very logical and if you dont see it youre blind





> Some reviewers have characterized the show as "far-fetched", "hugely speculative", and "...expound[ing] wildly on theories suggesting that astronauts wandered the Earth freely in ancient time." Many of the ideas presented in the show are not accepted by the scientific community, and have been criticized as pseudoscience and pseudohistory. History professor Ronald H. Fritze observed that pseudoscience as offered by von Däniken and the _Ancient Aliens_ program has a periodic popularity in America: "In a pop culture with a short memory and a voracious appetite, aliens and pyramids and lost civilizations are recycled like fashions.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_topics_characterized_as_pseudoscience



> *Erich von Däniken*  proposed that Earth was visited by ancient astronauts. Such beings have been claimed to have initiated the rise of human civilization or provided significant technological assistance to various ancient civilizations.


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## mindphuk (Oct 27, 2011)

sen.c said:


> I am truly sorry that your reading comprehension skills aren't as good as your talking skills. It is quite obvious what the passage is saying but maybe you just can't figure it out, I expected more from you.


You are so typical. Cry how wrong I am yet unable to actually put into words why.

"If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder ... that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death."
If someone teaches a new and different religious belief with signs and wonders, then that person must be put to death. Clear?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 27, 2011)

..."if you meet a buddha on the path kill him!" Same thing - the teacher is you.


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

Another thing christianity has made worse, native american life


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 27, 2011)

One thing I am seeing a lot of is ,"just because christians have done so many wrong things throughout history doesnt mean that christianity is to blame."

However, if you see a pattern of behavior taken from samples into the billions over a thousand years of history, one can begin to make assertions that the religion is responsible for the pattern of behavior. A particular example could be an exception, but it is a trend we are looking for.

For example, we know that driving drunk increases your chances of an accident. Now, you can probably find an example of a man who was drunk and got into an accident, but his.drinking had nothing to do with it. That doesnt change tje trend though


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 27, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> I endured that first video. It's complete bullshit imo.
> There was a long segment about the Japanese suicide forest, with highfalutin terms like Ancient Alien Theorists** (insert facepalm here) and a veritable phalanx of would, could, maybe, how about, what if. At one point one of these Theorists** mentioned electromagnetic energy. Oh good, I thought; at least this can be measured. No maps, no numbers, no further explanation. I would imagine that if anything WAS there to measure, they'd have shown data and done a victory dance.
> The second segment stinks of hoax. There is no chain of evidence linking any of those corpse photos to the described incident. I think the whole story is a put-on, without any fact to support it. Can we as Westerners even verify the occurrence and membership of the alleged expedition?
> 
> ...


so they show pictures and you say you dont believe them means they're fake? i dont really get that and as i said before i dont wish anything or have nothin hard wired into me belivin fantastical alien stories, but when shit like that is put in front of me i cant deny it. you mentioned nothin about the monuments that were shown that cant be explained by any kinda modern measure. to me thats all the proof i need for me to say thats how it coulda gone.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 27, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Y
> 
> How do I explain the unexplainable parts of our ancestors past? If I could do that, it wouldn't be unexplainable, right?
> 
> ...


i know and have said only some of the shit they say sounds true and to me them gettin help from another kinda life makes a lot more sense to me then our ancestors that had none of our tools figured out how to move shit that big.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 27, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> The absence of an explanation that makes sense doesnt mean that the less sensible explanations are correct, it means you dont know the corr we ct explanation. Pretty simple right? Just because you dont have a better explanation doesnt mean youre correct..


correct me if im wrong, but when did i ever say i was right?



Heisenberg said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_topics_characterized_as_pseudoscience


do you have or know of an explination as to how they built all that shit in the past that you would need modern tools to do today? what are those same scientists views on aliens?


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## tyler.durden (Oct 28, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> correct me if im wrong, but when did i ever say i was right?
> 
> 
> 
> do you have or know of an explination as to how they built all that shit in the past that you would need modern tools to do today? what are those same scientists views on aliens?


I still hear about these 'unexplainable' mysteries of how no one knows how the pyramids were built, or the Gothic Cathedrals, etc.. Nova is an awesome show that answers some of these questions. I'm sure if one wanted to truly find out how most of these things were constructed, they could do a cursory Google search on what we really know about their construction. Here's two Nova videos that 'unweave the rainbow' on how mysterious structures were built:

The Pyramids:

[video]http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-8913646180323015198[/video]


Gothic Cathedrals:

[video]http://video.pbs.org/video/1619317222[/video]


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 28, 2011)

the pyramids imo coulda been built by human hands just the amount of time they said they got in done in sounded a little fishy to me..20 years...thats crazy. i love all those nova shows they have them all on netflix. like lalibela tho they would have been cuttin through solid bedrock because the literally made the buildins out of the ground. now what kinda methods would have been used to do that shit and so precise at that? the story says that it was built by "angels" at night and humans worked on it durin the day.

balbec is also one...how did our ancestors get square block stone weighin between 800-1200 tons cut and lifted on top of a couple other sets of stone? we'd need big ass cranes and shit to lift that now so our ancestors did this how? they said on aa the name of the place translates to "the landin place" now why would our ancestors need shit to land shit on if they dont have shit to land?

they also have a chain of temples in india that are literally carved out of the side of the mountain...how did our ancestors figure out how to cut out the side of a mountain much less make the carvins and shit in there damn near perfect and aa says they all line up with the solstices and all the astronomical events...weither that is true i guess i wouldnt know till one came and i was there, but why would they lie about some shit like that? they said they got windows in certain ones that put the light directly on buddah when the solstices come to symbolize him goin back up into the heavens in what the carvins look like a little space pod.

also it was said that shit was flyin around and even from what the story says found a crashed ufo on a farmers farm in tx...this was back in the wild west days so we didnt have shit that could fly back then so what the fuck was flyin around? they talk about thunderbirds that flew the sky and no matter how much they shot at them the bullets would bounce off and they called it the thunderbird cause it shook the earth and made a loud noise when it came by...what the fuck does that sound like to you?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

lots of nonsense in this thread from the usual confused christians ....................things that christianity has made worse .............THIS THREAD


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## sen.c (Oct 28, 2011)

> You are so typical. Cry how wrong I am yet unable to actually put into words why.
> 
> "If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder ... that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death."
> If someone teaches a new and different religious belief with signs and wonders, then that person must be put to death. Clear?


Keep on you are doing a fine job of proving you don't know squat about the scripture, as usual you take the one piece out of context that suits your argument but it doesn't work that way.

Let me help you here, it is clear that God is telling his people to beware of "FALSE" Prophets and or self proclaimed "god's."

You biggest problem is the fact to refuse to acknowledge that the scripture is the word of God.

*1*If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 
*2*And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, *Let us go after other gods*, *which thou hast not known, and let us serve them*; 
*3Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet*, or that dreamer of dreams: *for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. *
*4Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. *
*5And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee. *
*6*If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 
*7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you*, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 
*8*Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 
*9*But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 
*10*And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; *because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. *
*11And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you. *
*12*If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, 
*13Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; *
*14Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; *
*15Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. *
*16And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. *
*17And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers; 18When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which*



*I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.*

Quite obvious that God, the God of the Bible that free his people from bondage and brought his people into the promised land was telling them that if someone comes around saying they are god or giving prophecy that they are not to believe them. This doesn't mean Moses either. If you would put aside your utter contempt for "Christianity" and actually read the Bible the way it was meant to be read wich is in context you would probably understand a little more about what you are trying to debunk.


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## sen.c (Oct 28, 2011)

> lots of nonsense in this thread from the usual confused christians


No confusion here buddy, any time you want to try and explain to me the scripture you go ahead and I will teach you a thing or two.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 28, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> The character Rachel on friends exists, but if you said you were in love with her, people would assume you crazy.




...who here can distinguish between emotion and feeling?


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## massah (Oct 28, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...who here can distinguish between emotion and feeling?


It's all just chemical reactions in your head...we just like to call it emotions and feelings


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## Heisenberg (Oct 28, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> the pyramids imo coulda been built by human hands just the amount of time they said they got in done in sounded a little fishy to me..20 years...thats crazy. i love all those nova shows they have them all on netflix. like lalibela tho they would have been cuttin through solid bedrock because the literally made the buildins out of the ground. now what kinda methods would have been used to do that shit and so precise at that? the story says that it was built by "angels" at night and humans worked on it durin the day.
> 
> balbec is also one...how did our ancestors get square block stone weighin between 800-1200 tons cut and lifted on top of a couple other sets of stone? we'd need big ass cranes and shit to lift that now so our ancestors did this how? they said on aa the name of the place translates to "the landin place" now why would our ancestors need shit to land shit on if they dont have shit to land?
> 
> ...


Occams razor. No matter how hard it is to accept the incredible works of our ancestors, accepting that aliens found a way to traverse the universe, decided to visit earth, felt compelled to help us build structures, and then decided to have no further contact makes many more assumptions, and assumes things beyond our knowledge. Does this mean it isn't true? No, it means it is an untrustworthy explanation which does not satisfy the scientific method. "I can't fathom how our ancetors did this, therefore aliens" is an appeal to ignorance and represents personal incredulity. These things do not factor into research.

Here is some critical thought about the show. The first one refutes point by point the pilot episode, which covers some of the ancient construction you asked about. It is not scientific research either, simply just informed criticism of the alien theory. http://www.dumbassguide.info/blog.php?bid=38
http://www.poffysmoviemania.com/AncientAliens.html



> ANCIENT ALIENS is - like all von Däniken's Chariots of the Gods books - speculative fiction masquerading as hard science. Each of the scores of segments in this 5-part series starts off promising, knowledge dripping like blond ambrosia off naked Valkyrie shoulders, and then - oil slicked into a gutter of disinformation with red herrings, straw man arguments and narrators with scary voices.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 28, 2011)

massah said:


> It's all just chemical reactions in your head...we just like to call it emotions and feelings


I wonder, can you see how one 'moves' while the other is 'receptive'?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

can any of you religious folk explain how we have skeletons of say neanderthal man , when adam n eve were supposed to be the first humans on the planet ?


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## massah (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> can any of you religious folk explain how we have skeletons of say neanderthal man , when adam n eve were supposed to be the first humans on the planet ?


Planted by god to trick us and test our faith...lol


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> can any of you religious folk explain how we have skeletons of say neanderthal man , when adam n eve were supposed to be the first humans on the planet ?


...when I see something like this it sends me off into noosphere  Could it be that they were the first + and - ? I usually envision eve (rib / arc) as that cloud whipped up around [an] atom - in an artistic sense anyway.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...when I see something like this it sends me off into noosphere  Could it be that they were the first + and - ? I usually envision eve (rib / arc) as that cloud whipped up around [an] atom - in an artistic sense anyway.


 i think its far more likely religion is just made up.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i think its far more likely religion is just made up.


...of the same stuff we are. Look at old writing systems, they started by mimicking human, animal and plant posture. Hebrew is a clear example.

And in that line of thinking http://www.science-art.com.au/renaissance_science/platonic-love-anaxagoras-nous.pdf


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## Hypocrite420 (Oct 28, 2011)

so you honestly believe that humans are not related to the neanderthal man at all? Adam and Eve was NOT just a story of guidelines in the bible? It was TRUE? A grown adult believes this? First two humans: *poof* there they are. This shit is blowing my mind. I have to unsubscribe and forget about this thread. I have never in my entire life tried to explain to ANY religious person that God does not exist. It's just wrong. You guys seem like you are at peace thinking that you are going to heaven when you die. Who am I to take that joy away from you? Then you guys get this thread and keep it going (without successfully proving jack shit). I have to tell you. And I am sorry to tell you this: God is NOT real. You have taken part in the greatest hoax of all time. And its sad. You guys are obviously smarter than I am. You are much more knowledgeable. How can you believe in this mystic voodoo bullshit?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

Hypocrite420 said:


> so you honestly believe that humans are not related to the neanderthal man at all? Adam and Eve was NOT just a story of guidelines in the bible? It was TRUE? A grown adult believes this? First two humans: *poof* there they are. This shit is blowing my mind. I have to unsubscribe and forget about this thread. I have never in my entire life tried to explain to ANY religious person that God does not exist. It's just wrong. You guys seem like you are at peace thinking that you are going to heaven when you die. Who am I to take that joy away from you? Then you guys get this thread and keep it going (without successfully proving jack shit). I have to tell you. And I am sorry to tell you this: God is NOT real. You have taken part in the greatest hoax of all time. And its sad. You guys are obviously smarter than I am. You are much more knowledgeable. How can you believe in this mystic voodoo bullshit?


 lol mate you are dealing with deep set religious indoctrination by parents peers n school , theres some on here so brainwashed its scary .


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 28, 2011)

Hypocrite420 said:


> so you honestly believe that humans are not related to the neanderthal man at all? Adam and Eve was NOT just a story of guidelines in the bible? It was TRUE? A grown adult believes this? First two humans: *poof* there they are. This shit is blowing my mind. I have to unsubscribe and forget about this thread. I have never in my entire life tried to explain to ANY religious person that God does not exist. It's just wrong. You guys seem like you are at peace thinking that you are going to heaven when you die. Who am I to take that joy away from you? Then you guys get this thread and keep it going (without successfully proving jack shit). I have to tell you. And I am sorry to tell you this: God is NOT real. You have taken part in the greatest hoax of all time. And its sad. You guys are obviously smarter than I am. You are much more knowledgeable. How can you believe in this mystic voodoo bullshit?


...not sure how you get that from this. And then heaven and stuff, not sure there either. It's inherent in belief that things 'go on' and 'never die'. Speech is divided into many dialects, so scientific approaches cannot be as well? Man, it's like saying 'there's a whole body of material out there and I am not willing to go and see how it can affect my own study for the better." I understand the need for proof. When I sketch things they are for me proof of what I was thinking. I need that to move artwork and design forward. Still not sure how we differ. We occupy two sides of the same coin.

@Sat - man, come on...really.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

sorry but people are brainwashed, if i could get you to believe in the 3 headed monster that lives in the closet, without any evidence ,people would say you are brainwashed .


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> sorry but people are brainwashed, if i could get you to believe in the 3 headed monster that lives in the closet, without any evidence ,people would say you are brainwashed .


...of course they would. I WOULD.

But you would have to produce a 3 headed monster that, in far too many ways to be coincidental, shows the processes and stages of life - so much so that a great myth is drawn around it. And also, have it feel real enough to entice conviction, that of the 'teresas' of this world. Mass pilgrimages would be cool too. I mean, getting that many people together for a single cause is a tough thing to do. I ask my selves to do that all the time but they refuse


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

lol man oh man what proceses and stages of life does your religion or beliefs show ? and the conviction and mass pilgrimige is easy gatherd by a pointed sword .
allso around the same time as your talking about you could get the whole town to believe mrs smith is a witch cause she looked at your sheep funny and 3 days later one died .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

a tough thing to do in 2011 ,but not in the time when christianity was thought up .


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lol man oh man what proceses and stages of life does your religion or beliefs show ? and the conviction and mass pilgrimige is easy gatherd by a pointed sword .
> allso around the same time as your talking about you could get the whole town to believe mrs smith is a witch cause she looked at your sheep funny and 3 days later one died .


...I don't see any pointed swords around here.

And that Mrs. Smith...mmm, let me tell you...when you're hot you're hot - man!...she's smokin'


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

yeah completely dodge the point with pointless drivel .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I don't see any pointed swords around here.
> 
> And that Mrs. Smith...mmm, let me tell you...when you're hot you're hot - man!...she's smokin'


your response reminds me of bill o'reilly off fox news when he interviewd richard dawkins ................................................


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FARDDcdFaQ lol dawkins is astounded by bills dumbness


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yeah completely dodge the point with pointless drivel .


I...don't...see...any...swords...around...here. Kinda to the point don't you think?

Hand me some books, and I'll gladly read them. The religious nutjobs around here post links to ponder, do you even look past titles? To me it's pretty simple, it's which lens you look at the world with. I can say that I am far more interested in being 'here' and working with what is 'here'. I can't really do a live study on events that have happened; and the simple truth is that they don't serve our conscious lives...we serve them.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

no what you see now is the aftermath , christianity was spread so well because of the sword .


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> no what you see now is the aftermath , christianity was spread so well because of the sword .


...sword in christianity is 'word'.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

Hypocrite420 said:


> You guys seem like you are at peace thinking that you are going to heaven when you die. Who am I to take that joy away


Wrong, not all of us believe we will go to heaven....


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...sword in christianity is 'word'.


 oh,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

oh look out everyone its the fountain of knoweldge hephatitus


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## cannabineer (Oct 28, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> so they show pictures and you say you dont believe them means they're fake? i dont really get that and as i said before i dont wish anything or have nothin hard wired into me belivin fantastical alien stories, but when shit like that is put in front of me i cant deny it. you mentioned nothin about the monuments that were shown that cant be explained by any kinda modern measure. to me thats all the proof i need for me to say thats how it coulda gone.


Are you familiar with the story of Piltdown man? Someone took a human skull and an orangutan jaw, treated them chemically to look very old, and placed them in a paleontological dig in Wales. For decades scientists believed the "fossil" to be the real deal, most convenient because it provided a "missing link" between modern man and the old forms already known as true fossils.
Piltdown Man was a hoax ... a practical joke that went bad.
The photos associated with the Russian segment could be the same - photos of entirely unrelated corpses used to spice up a tale, uncertain by itself, of a lost expedition. I consider that sort of explanation, while not provable, much more likely than the actions of some mysterious, unnatural, powerful force that hits Ghost Story markers with suspicious efficiency.

The churches in Ethiopia are cool, but sandstone is easily worked. I see nothing remarkable about them except that someone dedicated a fair amount of labor to their construction, or rather selective excavation.
As for Baalbek, they carved huge rocks and emplaced them. It's impressive but not eerie. A modern team has successfully used our best guess at Bronze Age technology to move and erect an obelisk weighing hundreds of tons. There is something about scale that amazes the kid in us, but not the engineer. 

The presenters of that steaming pile of telejournalism knew what they were doing. It takes both some training and a willingness to be skeptical to dismantle their sales tactics. Once one does that, the story falls apart ime. The fact that they did use such hard-sell propagandist methods makes me have a very poor opinion of their characters as well as their story. They want to dupe people! cn


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

ah, the pilt, i had forgotten about that fuck up.. it seems both sides have had their fair share of fuck ups





cannabineer said:


> Are you familiar with the story of Piltdown man? Someone took a human skull and an orangutan jaw, treated them chemically to look very old, and placed them in a paleontological dig in Wales. For decades scientists believed the "fossil" to be the real deal, most convenient because it provided a "missing link" between modern man and the old forms already known as true fossils.
> Piltdown Man was a hoax ... a practical joke that went bad.
> The photos associated with the Russian segment could be the same - photos of entirely unrelated corpses used to spice up a tale, uncertain by itself, of a lost expedition. I consider that sort of explanation, while not provable, much more likely than the actions of some mysterious, unnatural, powerful force that hits Ghost Story markers with suspicious efficiency.
> 
> ...


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## Heisenberg (Oct 28, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Wrong, not all of us believe we will go to heaven....


He's speaking to the ones who do. He clearly is addressing those who interpret the bible literally. He is saying that most of his life he has felt it was not his place to step on someones beliefs, but after witnessing this thread he feels that those who believe literally the Adam and Eve story need to hear that God is not real. I can only speculate that the arrogance, certitude and absurdity he has seen in this thread was his motivation.

You spend so much time trying to differentiate yourself from typical Christians; start realizing that this difference also means that not all comments aimed at Christians are aimed at you. If they were aimed at strawmen that would be a different story, but they are aimed at posters in this thread.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 28, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> A modern team has successfully used our best guess at Bronze Age technology to move and erect an obelisk weighing hundreds of tons.


...hi neer, are you talking about that desert one where they dug into the sand to erect it? I saw a doc on that and it was very cool.


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## tip top toker (Oct 28, 2011)

They don't half turn a tea bag into a mug of shite down the local church


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 28, 2011)

tip top toker said:


> They don't half turn a tea bag into a mug of shite down the local church


...that was very red orange yellow green cyan blue violet of you


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

> what proceses and stages of life does your religion or beliefs show ?


my beliefs show me the stages of life and how it developed through the processes of evolution and adaptations to our environment, my belief in God helps me understand it just that bit more then you, cause at least I know where the pieces to all these creations came from... No, not the 7 days, but the billions of years it has taken a single celled organism to evolve into what we are today that were put there by God for us to discover and understand to our best abilities...



> and the conviction and mass pilgrimige is easy gatherd by a pointed sword .


i dont see how a sword would do much of anything, you take out a sword and someone will take an AR-15, oh, yea, i forgot, you aint from the US, you cant own guns, only, knives and even at that, well i get your sword comment, LOL



> you could get the whole town to believe mrs smith is a witch


Man you are really stupid still brining these points up... Do you not understand evolution? Or small adaptations to our environment? You claim to know so much, but your lack of understanding out weighs whatever it is you claim to know. People of those times were easily tricked into believing anything they were told. They were new to the land and had never seen indigenous Native American Indians before who would practice a very different religion then the white settlers that came. Stupid whites, left persecution cause of the church, once they got here, they did the same to the Native Indians. thats a whole other story, but you just keep brining these points that are stupid and ignorant.


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## cannabineer (Oct 28, 2011)

About moving big heavy things ... this guy's work is cool imo. cn
[video=youtube;pCvx5gSnfW4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pCvx5gSnfW4[/video]


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

how do know the bones they have uncovered so far are not from them? Man, again, you are really stupid!!!!!!




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> can any of you religious folk explain how we have skeletons of say neanderthal man , when adam n eve were supposed to be the first humans on the planet ?


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

i think its easier if you submerge it then use balloons to lift...




cannabineer said:


> About moving big heavy things ... this guy's work is cool imo. cn
> [video=youtube;pCvx5gSnfW4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pCvx5gSnfW4[/video]


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## anotherdaymusic (Oct 28, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> how do know the bones they have uncovered so far are not from them? Man, again, you are really stupid!!!!!!


Youre right! you created and won an argument online, my hats off to you


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

and you won dickhead of the year, hats on to you





anotherdaymusic said:


> Youre right! you created and won an argument online, my hats off to you


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## Heisenberg (Oct 28, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> *when shit like that is put in front of me i cant deny it*.


You should always apply consistent doubt and scrutiny when things are placed in front of you. Otherwise, any conclusion you come to will lack validation. This is hard to do with subjects such as evolution, quantum physics, and ancient history. We can't exactly become experts just to prove our intuition correct. What we can do is educate ourselves about the process of science. Even if we do not fully understand the material, we can examine the process used and search for errors. Beyond that, we depend on peer review. 

The first thing we notice about ancient aliens theory is that it does not even begin to pass peer review. There are no experts in these fields who are baffled to the point of grasping for alien explanations. There are a few non-experts who are not following the scientific method making a lot of noise. When we really listen to these noise makers, we hear many logical fallacies, false appeals and dressed up speculation. 




> you mentioned nothin about the monuments that were shown that cant be explained by any kinda modern measure. to me thats all the proof i need for me to say thats how it coulda gone.


In other words, all the proof you need that aliens figured out a way to conquer the unimaginable distance between galaxies, noticed our planet, decided to help our people, and then vanished, is some old structures with impressive architecture. While it is understandable why you have come to this conclusion, it is not scientific. It is saying "I can't understand this, therefore aliens", which is a conclusion that very rarely leads to the truth. It is no more scientific than saying, "I can't understand this, therefore God". Ancient aliens theory appears to be scientific, but it is simply sloppy, biased, and uninformed analysis, or in other words, pseudoscience.


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## tip top toker (Oct 28, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> how do know the bones they have uncovered so far are not from them? Man, again, you are really stupid!!!!!!


That would then mean that modern human is not made in gods image and is not the child of god but some ungodly mutation  that's what the cannabis is saying right now.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> how do know the bones they have uncovered so far are not from them? Man, again, you are really stupid!!!!!!


 lol from who ? we have discoverd many many many skeletons from thousands of years before christianity was a glint in jesus's eye .
are you really seriousely so dumb you are discarding actual skeletal evidence of man existing thousands of years before christianity ?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

seriousley olly i cant see how you even carry on , ive never seen one sentance you have ever typed that someone has'nt completely destroyed interlectualy .what are you hoping to gain from your repetitive drivvel ?


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

you are really stupid for committing so many straw mans... i never said anything you just stated...

trust, me, i think i know far more then you do about evolution and all that other good stuff that goes along with it. i will leave that up to you to do your own research and find the facts about bone discoveries... 




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lol from who ? we have discoverd many many many skeletons from thousands of years before christianity was a glint in jesus's eye .
> are you really seriousely so dumb you are discarding actual skeletal evidence of man existing thousands of years before christianity ?


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

u r 1 fanny dud main... ''destroyed INTERLECTUALY'' ironic and hypocritical of you to state that someones comments have been what you call "destroyed interlectualy" LOL ... seriously sat, did your mum never say anything around you? you always say, your bitch mum said , '' if you aint nufing goood to say, dont say it'' obviously she was pretty stupid for never showing anything or taking care of you or helping you with homework or showing you a mothers love and care 




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> seriousley olly i cant see how you even carry on , ive never seen one sentance you have ever typed that someone has'nt completely destroyed interlectualy .what are you hoping to gain from your repetitive drivvel ?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> He's speaking to the ones who do. He clearly is addressing those who interpret the bible literally. He is saying that most of his life he has felt it was not his place to step on someones beliefs, but after witnessing this thread he feels that those who believe literally the Adam and Eve story need to hear that God is not real. I can only speculate that the arrogance, certitude and absurdity he has seen in this thread was his motivation.
> 
> You spend so much time trying to differentiate yourself from typical Christians; start realizing that this difference also means that not all comments aimed at Christians are aimed at you. If they were aimed at strawmen that would be a different story, but they are aimed at posters in this thread.


I'm not separating myself only.... I'm saying people shouldn't group together Christians.
There's so many different versions of the bible based off of people's beliefs that you can't group together all Christians. 

Are you sure he was talking to specific Christians? Because it sounded like he was referring to all Christians. I'm just informing him that not all Christians believe we will go to heaven. Maybe he should say "many Christians" or "most Christians".

I know many atheists are assholes, so should I say atheists are assholes? You're certainly not an asshole, but I'm sure you would be offended by that statement.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

listenn olly , the fact is , we as humans have found skeletons of humans thousands and thousands of years older than chriustianity , as a christian how do you explain that ?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I'm not separating myself only.... I'm saying people shouldn't group together Christians.
> There's so many different versions of the bible based off of people's beliefs that you can't group together all Christians.
> 
> Are you sure he was talking to specific Christians? Because it sounded like he was referring to all Christians. I'm just informing him that not all Christians believe we will go to heaven. Maybe he should say "many Christians" or "most Christians".
> ...


hillarious , seperating yourself from christianity again lol


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## tip top toker (Oct 28, 2011)

Speaking out of ignorance, what is the bibles account of the timeline between the creation and Jesus? Is it talking thousands on thousands of years, or?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

get ready guys for ' not every christian thinks like that ' 'im a christian and i think differently to that ' lmfao


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## cannabineer (Oct 28, 2011)

tip top toker said:


> Speaking out of ignorance, what is the bibles account of the timeline between the creation and Jesus? Is it talking thousands on thousands of years, or?


There is a famous analysis of Biblical chronology that placed the first hour of Genesis on a Tuesday afternoon in 4004 BC. cn


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

if this was a real discussion around a real table , heph would now have ollys pants round his ankles and he would be humping his ass dry .


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## tip top toker (Oct 28, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> There is a famous analysis of Biblical chronology that placed the first hour of Genesis on a Tuesday afternoon in 4004 BC. cn


Cheers for that. So yeah, unless that chronology was incorrect and they meant 4400400 years bc, then it doesn't sound much like Adam and Eve 

Funnily enough my book in the bath at the moment is all about the church of england and the original manifest. Entertaining stuff.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> u r 1 fanny dud main... ''destroyed INTERLECTUALY'' ironic and hypocritical of you to state that someones comments have been what you call "destroyed interlectualy" LOL ... seriously sat, did your mum never say anything around you? you always say, your bitch mum said , '' if you aint nufing goood to say, dont say it'' obviously she was pretty stupid for never showing anything or taking care of you or helping you with homework or showing you a mothers love and care


and your momma taught you belief without evidence lmfao
my momma taught me to think for myself and come up with my own conclusion .
your momma stuffed ancient bible down your throat lol


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> and your momma taught you belief without evidence lmfao
> my momma taught me to think for myself and come up with my own conclusion .
> your momma stuffed ancient bible down your throat lol


Your momma was as dumb and ignorant as us.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> get ready guys for ' not every christian thinks like that ' 'im a christian and i think differently to that ' lmfao


Well it's true right?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

no its a bullshit excuse , you are a confused puppy , you can seperate yourself untill you become an athiest just like i did , i started to disagree with mainstream christianity, untill i got to the point i didnt agree with anything it stood for , it was around that time i realised i was an athiest . at 12 years old .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

come on heph come over to the dark side lolhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eXw47qb4U0


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> no its a bullshit excuse , you are a confused puppy , you can seperate yourself untill you become an athiest just like i did , i started to disagree with mainstream christianity, untill i got to the point i didnt agree with anything it stood for , it was around that time i realised i was an athiest . at 12 years old .


Oh ok. So follow mainstream religion or nothing at all.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> come on heph come over to the dark side lolhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eXw47qb4U0


How about you come over to the bright side?


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## dp sux (Oct 28, 2011)

I got one how bout fact its always been used to hide our true origens as humans(we come from a planet called NEBULA) were only half niantorthal(cave men)!!


THATS THE BIGGEST IMPACT ON HUMANS EVER(but every religion on earth was designed to hide the truth about all that)

ITS THE FREE MASON AND NIGHTS TEMPLAR SECRET(no joke yo)


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

any way its chop chop friday tonight and the special prize is a phat n fruity thats gone 12 weeks lol hmmmmm hmmmm she sure is fat n fruity .........and the 8 weeek old kitty is sayin , 'yeah its nice shit man '


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

dp sux said:


> I got one how bout fact its always been used to hide our true origens as humans(we come from a planet called NEBULA) were only half niantorthal(cave men)!!
> 
> 
> THATS THE BIGGEST IMPACT ON HUMANS EVER(but every religion on earth was designed to hide the truth about all that)
> ...


..........................


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

speaking serious, tsh, yes i know, the oldest dating back to around 2.2-.24 mya and the most recent at 10,000-5000 years ago. I am not saying that is not true, if you would have read my response to your question a few pages back, you already know my stand on all this. It shows what you like to ignore are valid points made by others just because they are believers. And as i said before, i do not know what year adam and eve died, if you could share that, then, there just might be some overlapping of time periods in which the most recent fossils found could and just might be their bones. No one knows who they belong to, so the possiblity is there, to say otherwise is perposterous. 




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> listenn olly , the fact is , we as humans have found skeletons of humans thousands and thousands of years older than chriustianity , as a christian how do you explain that ?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

Preposterous!!!!


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

ok let me educate you , christianity certainly believes man is no more than 10 000 years old and that being generous , we as humans have found skelertons of man more than 4 point 4 million years old . how can you still believe in christianity , i suppose your gonna come out wid the nonsense ive heard a million times but plesae do i enjoy raping your belief system, .


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

> your momma stuffed ancient bible down your throat lol


 
no, not really, but nice try. Again, i did not experience the same shit you did man. My mom was not a religious nut like your mum if i remember correctly. As you, i also think for myself, but that does not give me the right to go around and belittle others beliefs, that is one thing my mom taught me, respect others and treat them like you wish to be treated... and i have found that works great for me, so, if you think i am hostile, it is only because that is the way you act around here or towards me and others i exchange with.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> any way its chop chop friday tonight and the special prize is a phat n fruity thats gone 12 weeks lol hmmmmm hmmmm she sure is fat n fruity .........View attachment 1859849View attachment 1859850View attachment 1859851View attachment 1859852and the 8 weeek old kitty is sayin , 'yeah its nice shit man '


i seem to have gotten a hugely sativa pheno here , when it was advertised as pure indica , shes taken weeks to ripen and i reckon she could of gone 2 more weeks but i took a sample a couple of days ago and its blow your head , sit in that seat kinda bitch slap there you go , kinda weed .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> no, not really, but nice try. Again, i did not experience the same shit you did man. My mom was not a religious nut like your mum if i remember correctly. As you, i also think for myself, but that does not give me the right to go around and belittle others beliefs, that is one thing my mom taught me, respect others and treat them like you wish to be treated... and i have found that works great for me, so, if you think i am hostile, it is only because that is the way you act around here or towards me and others i exchange with.


i have the right to be - little your beliefs cause you cant provide any evidence for your beliefs , when you have some evidence come back to me untill then get prepared for ridicule , mockery and disbelief .


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

let me educate you, i dont fucking care what it says, timelines overlap so the one ignoring facts is you son. I believe in God and Jesus Christ, i being a free thinking individual have made my own conclusions and choose to believe in what i want.. if you want to be an atheist, all power to you man, when have i told you to turn? rape whatever you want man, you are use to rape i guess, you sick fuck




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> ok let me educate you , christianity certainly believes man is no more than 10 000 years old and that being generous , we as humans have found skelertons of man more than 4 point 4 million years old . how can you still believe in christianity , i suppose your gonna come out wid the nonsense ive heard a million times but plesae do i enjoy raping your belief system, .


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

in all seriousness, i wish you would be so upfront about this if i met you in person. I think you would most certainly hold your stupid tongue inside your shit mouth. why dont you come over? ill pay for your trip, think of it as a get away attempt to persuade me in person, come on man,




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i have the right to be - little your beliefs cause you cant provide any evidence for your beliefs , when you have some evidence come back to me untill then get prepared for ridicule , mockery and disbelief .


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

who cares about your stupid plant man... i hope you get bud rot and smoke it so you could get all fucked up man.. i think it would be better if you put it up your arse then smoke it right?




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i seem to have gotten a hugely sativa pheno here , when it was advertised as pure indica , shes taken weeks to ripen and i reckon she could of gone 2 more weeks but i took a sample a couple of days ago and its blow your head , sit in that seat kinda bitch slap there you go , kinda weed .


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

jeesz, you so quick to jadge me! seems the tables have turned!





Hepheastus420 said:


> Preposterous!!!!


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> in all seriousness, i wish you would be so upfront about this if i met you in person. I think you would most certainly hold your stupid tongue inside your shit mouth. why dont you come over? ill pay for your trip, think of it as a get away attempt to persuade me in person, come on man,


thankyou for the somewhat homo-erotic invertation to america , but id rather stick pins in my japs eye than visit the land of shiteness , the rape of our beutifull language and the self rightous ignorance of its inbred population , makes me humble to be a full english thouroughbread .americans are far to FAKE . But thanks for the invite .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> who cares about your stupid plant man... i hope you get bud rot and smoke it so you could get all fucked up man.. i think it would be better if you put it up your arse then smoke it right?


lol no bud rot here dude just pure english dankness .


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

blah, blah, blah, im a huge PUSSY, blah, blah, blah, and an internet TOUGH GUY, blah, blah ,blah





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> thankyou for the somewhat homo-erotic invertation to america , but id rather stick pins in my japs eye than visit the land of shiteness , the rape of our beutifull language and the self rightous ignorance of its inbred population , makes me humble to be a full english thouroughbread .americans are far to FAKE . But thanks for the invite .


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

you piece of arse, dankness was invented in the USA, piece of shiteness copy cat, thats all you do, copy cats





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lol no bud rot here dude just pure english dankness .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

and btw olly , im a semi pro boxer , and would go toe to toe any day anywhere ( in England )


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> you piece of arse, dankness was invented in the USA, piece of shiteness copy cat, thats all you do, copy cats


 he he your to easy , its like fishing for minnow .


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

blah, blah, blah, im a huge PUSSY, blah, blah, blah,

for your information, semi pro = nothing

toe to toe, a thing Joe Tesitor would say, again, you think your tough and you copy us,

but really, im super scared...

how many christians have you knocked out tough guy?







ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> and btw olly , im a semi pro boxer , and would go toe to toe any day anywhere ( in England )


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> jeesz, you so quick to jadge me! seems the tables have turned!


Are you serious oly? I was just playing around, I saw the last word of your post and just felt like posting it. 

My post was just as pointless as this thread. I'm sorry oly.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

no, im not serious heph. i just wanted to see what stupid shit that other fool would say.. \

its all good bro





Hepheastus420 said:


> Are you serious oly? I was just playing around, I saw the last word of your post and just felt like posting it.
> 
> My post was just as pointless as this thread. I'm sorry oly.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

lol olly and heph havin a domestic lmfao . its too funny man , next heph will say ' fuck you olly babe im goin athiest lol ' 
and olly will say 'you bastard , im putting sand in the vaseline you twat ' lmao


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

i do not use gay slurs cause i respect my gay friends. sorry, i do not go that low. 

and why do ignore the fact that semi pro suck ass? you know it yourself, you probably suck ass too, but think you some tough guy.. i have seen plenty of bitches like you... trust me, 





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lol olly and heph havin a domestic lmfao . its too funny man , next heph will say ' fuck you olly babe im goin athiest lol '
> and olly will say 'you bastard , im putting sand in the vaseline you twat ' lmao


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lol olly and heph havin a domestic lmfao . its too funny man , next heph will say ' fuck you olly babe im goin athiest lol '
> and olly will say 'you bastard , im putting sand in the vaseline you twat ' lmao


It's called respect, we don't have a fucked up mind like you.

I mean have you really resorted to saying me and oly butt fuck and are together? You're a sick fuck....


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> It's called respect, we don't have a fucked up mind like you.
> 
> I mean have you really resorted to saying me and oly butt fuck and are together? You're a sick fuck....


 ha ha ha im gigglin .


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> ha ha ha im gigglin .


So talking about guys fucking in the ass makes you giggle?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

this hash joint is for you and olly , i wish you all the best lol


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## massah (Oct 28, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So talking about guys fucking in the ass makes you giggle?


sometimes...depends on the context


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So talking about guys fucking in the ass makes you giggle?


 no , just you two lovvers make me giggle and this weed makes me giggle .


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> this hash joint is for you and olly , i wish you all the best lol View attachment 1859889


So is this a joint asto celebrate are apparent ignorance? Do you really wish us the best?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

i wish you the best ass sex you two can manage between yourselves .


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i wish you the best ass sex you two can manage between yourselves .


Your imagination runs wild....


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

lol thats a bit cheeky , coming from the guy who admits he believes in , goblins and pixies , oh sorry i mean god , withouit any evidence lol


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

how about you come over to Liverpool, olly , we show you how to live , withouit your imaginary friend , you gotta start believing theres an awsome time to be had widout jesus .theres lots of coke n weed in liverpool . we all partying without jesus dude .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

come on olly stop lubing hepatitus up


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

no serious you two freaks , im not an asshole at all , i just hate seeing fellow stoners believing this religious bullshit , i understand you live in america and i know religion is big there , but i just want you guys to think outside the american box, lifes so much better without that jesus thing hanging over you , and come on ir jesus is real he will understand there was no evidence for you guys to believe .i dont hate americans i just hate the indoctrionation of you guys .


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## anotherdaymusic (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> no serious you two freaks , im not an asshole at all , i just hate seeing fellow stoners believing this religious bullshit , i understand you live in america and i know religion is big there , but i just want you guys to think outside the american box, lifes so much better without that jesus thing hanging over you , and come on ir jesus is real he will understand there was no evidence for you guys to believe .i dont hate americans i just hate the indoctrionation of you guys .


Your lame bro, not everyone is like this. stay in liverpool with all of your asshole buddies who think like you. you arrogant stoner.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

dude, the fact that you suck at your so called "semi pro boxing" does not mean the rest of us do.


you are pathetic and a loser for using all these gay shits... you are person who has total lack of respect for anyone other then yourself, you selfish piece of shit.






ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lol thats a bit cheeky , coming from the guy who admits he believes in , goblins and pixies , oh sorry i mean god , withouit any evidence lol


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

Fuck curing this shit is good now .


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

no, i do not do those things. Liverpool? I invited you over here first, so its up to you... id pay for it, just so you could run your mouth like that in person...





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> how about you come over to Liverpool, olly , we show you how to live , withouit your imaginary friend , you gotta start believing theres an awsome time to be had widout jesus .theres lots of coke n weed in liverpool . we all partying without jesus dude .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

You guys are far to self rightous why dont you admit you are wro g sometimes , ...........veitnam , afghan , iraq


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

I dont suck at boxing iM just NOT commited enough to be pro , so in fight twice a year for a small cash prize , tbh i just love the buzz and the money is bonus .im far to unfit to go pro btw


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

nobody gives a shit what you think man... dont you get it? scallywags like you are idiots with an annoying ass accent. 

blah, blah, blah, im a semi pro boxer blah, blah, blah

LOL





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> no serious you two freaks , im not an asshole at all , i just hate seeing fellow stoners believing this religious bullshit , i understand you live in america and i know religion is big there , but i just want you guys to think outside the american box, lifes so much better without that jesus thing hanging over you , and come on ir jesus is real he will understand there was no evidence for you guys to believe .i dont hate americans i just hate the indoctrionation of you guys .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

olly dude your not scary , if you want me to run my mowf in your topwn then send me the ticket dude , i need a holiday , its just america is not a nice place to take a vacation , its full of mixed race .


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

i dont care, i have seen many so called "athletes" like you. you are nothing but a joke who half asses it all the time with a lame ass excuse why you are not pro... PRO? PRO? are you serious? you will never make the likes of PRO cause you are not dedicated, you are presumably a junkie, you hate anyone other then yourself, you suck at being coached, you hate being coached cause you think you know it all cause the only reason you aint pro is cause you aint "fit" enough... you suck at it dude.





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> I dont suck at boxing iM just NOT commited enough to be pro , so in fight twice a year for a small cash prize , tbh i just love the buzz and the money is bonus .im far to unfit to go pro btw


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> You guys are far to self rightous why dont you admit you are wro g sometimes , ...........veitnam , afghan , iraq


...I'm not jumping in on the roll but... ein?  I thought those were about the most precious commodity known to Ted Nugent.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

god bless america lol the 250 year old shit hole . lol why would god wait 6000 years to bless a shit hole like america lol


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

blah blah blah blah ' - creationist 1999


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## sen.c (Oct 28, 2011)

Heph & Oly ease up bro don't be so quick to anger when you do that you let douche's like this control you. It is obvious that Sativa is a punch drunk bafoon that finds it easier to go with popular belief than to stand on his own two feet 
and research something for himself. Remember this, it is typically the loudest one in the room that has the most to hide.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

sen.c said:


> Heph & Oly ease up bro don't be so quick to anger when you do that you let douche's like this control you. It is obvious that Sativa is a punch drunk bafoon that finds it easier to go with popular belief than to stand on his own two feet
> and research something for himself. Remember this, it is typically the loudest one in the room that has the most to hide.


lol sen c , one thing to say to you ........................prove it bitch untill then shut the f??k up lol


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

i invited oliver to come over here and enjoy life without his daddy jesus christ the saviour lol , i offerd him skunk , hash and coke , but hes to 'butthurt ' to accept his beliefs are poppycock .


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## dp sux (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lol sen c , one thing to say to you ........................prove it bitch untill then shut the f??k up lol


You should do some research on sumariuns and nebula (and you do seem like a close minded idiot)..

I bet you drink all day dnt you???
dnt you have some other drunkin idiots to talk to???

Orrrrrrrrrrr just lay off the sativa (you dnt handle it well) (some mental cases are better off w/ indica)


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

What just happened?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

so your answer is sumariuns and nebula lmfao , desperate times dude . why dont you try admitting your faith is belief without any evidence , at least hepatitus does .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

lol my sativas help me laugh at all this , you should try a good sativa maybe it break you from the jesus spell lol


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

i hardly ever drink dude .


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## sen.c (Oct 28, 2011)

I don't have to prove anything to, history has proven enough. Kinda like that is why we here in America are here because we had ancestors that were brave enough to venture out and start something new in an unknown land and build the greatest nation on earth. You should be thanking us Americans that you arent speaking German after all if it wouldn't have been for the good US of A in WWI and WWII you would be if they wouldn't have killed you.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 28, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> You should always apply consistent doubt and scrutiny when things are placed in front of you. Otherwise, any conclusion you come to will lack validation. This is hard to do with subjects such as evolution, quantum physics, and ancient history. We can't exactly become experts just to prove our intuition correct. What we can do is educate ourselves about the process of science. Even if we do not fully understand the material, we can examine the process used and search for errors. Beyond that, we depend on peer review.
> 
> The first thing we notice about ancient aliens theory is that it does not even begin to pass peer review. There are no experts in these fields who are baffled to the point of grasping for alien explanations. There are a few non-experts who are not following the scientific method making a lot of noise. When we really listen to these noise makers, we hear many logical fallacies, false appeals and dressed up speculation.
> 
> ...


im too lazy to go back and quote your other post, but who were those ppl? why are their opinions right and mine are just as you all are sayin just flat out dumb? they talk of nothin that i brought up. i dont see any experts or any others givin reasons as to how these structures came to be. once again and for like the 5th time i never said the "aliens done it" was a hard fact. its what i think it coulda been. also for the 5th time nobody has givin me any kinda expert analysis on lalibela or balbec as to how they were made. and if we cannot make it with the tools they use back in the day and would be a super pain in the ass to make today....how did they get made? like i said im very open to any other explanations as to how they did these things.

ima ask you again do you think aliens are real? do scientists think aliens are real?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCDSka70Vug


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## dp sux (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> so your answer is sumariuns and nebula lmfao , desperate times dude . why dont you try admitting your faith is belief without any evidence , at least hepatitus does .[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> WELL YOUR TALKIN LIKE A DRUNK IDIOT AND I SMOKE (BHO) IT WOULD HAVE SOMEONE LIKE YOU IN A MENTAL HOSPITAL IF YOU SMOKED (WAY TO STRONG FOR CHILDREN)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! such as yoUrself.............son!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 28, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> Are you familiar with the story of Piltdown man? Someone took a human skull and an orangutan jaw, treated them chemically to look very old, and placed them in a paleontological dig in Wales. For decades scientists believed the "fossil" to be the real deal, most convenient because it provided a "missing link" between modern man and the old forms already known as true fossils.
> Piltdown Man was a hoax ... a practical joke that went bad.
> The photos associated with the Russian segment could be the same - photos of entirely unrelated corpses used to spice up a tale, uncertain by itself, of a lost expedition. I consider that sort of explanation, while not provable, much more likely than the actions of some mysterious, unnatural, powerful force that hits Ghost Story markers with suspicious efficiency.
> 
> ...


those stones at baalbek(thank you for spellin it right btw lol) arent just hundreds they're 800-1200 tons of perfectly cut stone...if you have a vid of niggas cuttin out stones that big that perfect and liftin them above other stacked stones and placed with bronze age technology ill watch the shit out of it, but i doubt you're gonna find it cause i doubt its possible. could they have cut them out of the side of a mountain and then dropped them onto trees the right high and rolled them on? maybe, im not sure if they had any trees around that area or what a 800 ton block of stone would do to a tree if it landed on it.

what answers do they have about puma punku?


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> so your answer is sumariuns and nebula lmfao , desperate times dude . why dont you try admitting your faith is belief without any evidence , at least hepatitus does .


so its yours bro. and i was gonna quote the thing you said about fightin someone, but i dont wanna go back and nobody is scared of a brit that boxes anyways. ive seen yalls little dumb ass videos of families fightin other families and yall cant fight for shit. even dan hardy and bisbeng get put to sleep all the time.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

sen.c said:


> I don't have to prove anything to, history has proven enough. Kinda like that is why we here in America are here because we had ancestors that were brave enough to venture out and start something new in an unknown land and build the greatest nation on earth. You should be thanking us Americans that you arent speaking German after all if it wouldn't have been for the good US of A in WWI and WWII you would be if they wouldn't have killed you.


 HA HA HA check your history dude , hitler was all but done when you joined , you fucked about wimpering in the background whilst us hardcore muthafucker brits battleed to the fuckin death against that cunt ,it was only after japan fucked you over you decide to err join in , britain asked for your help lots of times and you arogant fucks just handed us aid , whilst we fought like fuckin warriors .And if you ask any warrior from britain who fought before america joined in ( ie the battle of britain) we would of rather of died on our own soil than accept your help. and how are you even proud ?n look at the size of our tiny island and look at what we did against hitler , if things are put into perspective , britain are the the MAC DADDY .
INFACT LOOK AT OUR TEENY LITTLE ISLAND TODAY LOOK HOW POWERFULL WE ARE .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> so its yours bro. and i was gonna quote the thing you said about fightin someone, but i dont wanna go back and nobody is scared of a brit that boxes anyways. ive seen yalls little dumb ass videos of families fightin other families and yall cant fight for shit. even dan hardy and bisbeng get put to sleep all the time.


 LOL LOOK AT THIS ........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYcGdQdoUbc THIS IS ENGLISH HARDCORE BAD ASS SHIT YOU GUYS LUST AFTER .


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## sen.c (Oct 28, 2011)

Blazinkill504, 

Check this link out it is pretty cool and it is about ancient cranes and lifting tech.

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/52231


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

sen.c said:


> blazinkill504,
> 
> check this link out it is pretty cool and it is about ancient cranes and lifting tech.
> 
> http://www.energybulletin.net/node/52231


the funny thing about that fight was in the post interview taylor was sayin 'froch ', 'whos froch' ,' i never heard of him' loll


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> LOL LOOK AT THIS ........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYcGdQdoUbc THIS IS ENGLISH HARDCORE BAD ASS SHIT YOU GUYS LUST AFTER .


http://www.flowrestling.org/video/193186-Dan-Henderson-vs-Michael-Bisping

just one brit goin to sleep


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## sen.c (Oct 28, 2011)

> HA HA HA check your history dude , hitler was all but done when you joined , you fucked about wimpering in the background whilst us hardcore muthafucker brits battleed to the fuckin death against that cunt ,it was only after japan fucked you over you decide to err join in , britain asked for your help lots of times and you arogant fucks just handed us aid , whilst we fought like fuckin warriors .And if you ask any warrior from britain who fought before america joined in ( ie the battle of britain) we would of rather of died on our own soil than accept your help. and how are you even proud ?n look at the size of our tiny island and look at what we did against hitler , if things are put into perspective , britain are the the MAC DADDY .
> INFACT LOOK AT OUR TEENY LITTLE ISLAND TODAY LOOK HOW POWERFULL WE ARE .


Please, you guys are like the little punk kid that starts crap because you know your allies are there behind you in case you get in over your head. By the way, the war was far from over when we came in so you might want to read your history again. We fought from Africa to Hitlers front door, it was my grandfather and the 2nd Armored Division that went in with Patton and fought off Rommel in Africa and ran all the way to the Battle of the Bulge. Not to mention it was my grandfathers division that took Hitlers lair and found Eva Braun dead on the couch. Matter of fact I still have all my grandfathers old maps from the campaign and he fought all seven major battles and made it home.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

ANOTHER ARAGONT IDIOT WHO KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT WW2 look at how many german u boats and warships britain sank , look at the damage we did to the german air force , we are a tiny island aqnd we handed hitler his ass, no fuckin german set foot on our island ,and we would of died here before any of us spoke german .hitler sent his entire air force to try n destroy us and we kicked him to the curb we are a tiny island dude remember that .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

sen.c said:


> Please, you guys are like the little punk kid that starts crap because you know your allies are there behind you in case you get in over your head. By the way, the war was far from over when we came in so you might want to read your history again. We fought from Africa to Hitlers front door, it was my grandfather and the 2nd Armored Division that went in with Patton and fought off Rommel in Africa and ran all the way to the Battle of the Bulge. Not to mention it was my grandfathers division that took Hitlers lair and found Eva Braun dead on the couch. Matter of fact I still have all my grandfathers old maps from the campaign and he fought all seven major battles and made it home.


 you wouldnt of got near germany for years if it wasnt for the british , im not saying america didnt play a massive role but dude think of the thouisands who were fighting hitler years before the US joined in.britain is a tiny island wich in one point of history (recent ) owned 3 quarters of the world .Im glad we had america behind us but dude dont ever think you just waltz in and won the war we done lots of hard wuork before hand .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

this is taylor askin who carl froch is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e-YzTCduy8&feature=related


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## sen.c (Oct 28, 2011)

Sativa, was this you in your semi-pro debut in boxing? Come on man, it's cool you can tell us the truth.

[video=youtube;Ii9olgtpwYo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii9olgtpwYo[/video]


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

lmfao senc that was awsome


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## sen.c (Oct 28, 2011)

Just kidding Bro, it was funny though right. Anyone who enters the ring with a display like that needs to be dispatched just like that.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

this is what happens when you double drop extasy before a fight


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

lol btw the english flag on his shorts was not endorsed by any englman i know .


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## cannabineer (Oct 28, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> those stones at baalbek(thank you for spellin it right btw lol) arent just hundreds they're 800-1200 tons of perfectly cut stone...if you have a vid of niggas cuttin out stones that big that perfect and liftin them above other stacked stones and placed with bronze age technology ill watch the shit out of it, but i doubt you're gonna find it cause i doubt its possible. could they have cut them out of the side of a mountain and then dropped them onto trees the right high and rolled them on? maybe, im not sure if they had any trees around that area or what a 800 ton block of stone would do to a tree if it landed on it.
> 
> what answers do they have about puma punku?


Did you watch the vid I posted? One guy, ten tons. Using entirely Neolithic technology, if you'll forgive the concrete used to make the stones and the plastics in the watering hose.

I can only guess we're coming at this from different angles. To me, ancient megalithic structures like Baalbek, Puma Punku, Chichen Itza etc. are wonderful examples of skilled craftsmanship. However I see nothing truly difficult that couldn't be handled by a small army of stonemasons dressing the megaliths with known tools (bronze chisels, hammerstones made of dolerite, a rock tough enough to dress the granite Egyptians quarried) and then a thousand big guys with ropes and levers being directed by a dozen pros who knew the tricks of Big Rock Vid Guy and a few others that our cranes&Diesels age no longer needs. cn

<edit> Nice site discussing how some of these things could have been done. For me the take-home lesson was "basic techniques, very high skill level, awesome dedication to the job". \http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/extremasonry.htm#moving


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

I declare war on the British!!!!

Nah Jk people don't get pissed.


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## ohmy (Oct 28, 2011)

when I went to church the priest did bad things to me....Thank you god because they said I had to worship you I was violated bad and hard the word of god crammed down my thorough along with dirty old priest cock...perfecr


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## cannabineer (Oct 28, 2011)

On the lighter side ... cn


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 28, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> Did you watch the vid I posted? One guy, ten tons. Using entirely Neolithic technology, if you'll forgive the concrete used to make the stones and the plastics in the watering hose.
> 
> I can only guess we're coming at this from different angles. To me, ancient megalithic structures like Baalbek, Puma Punku, Chichen Itza etc. are wonderful examples of skilled craftsmanship. However I see nothing truly difficult that couldn't be handled by a small army of stonemasons dressing the megaliths with known tools (bronze chisels, hammerstones made of dolerite, a rock tough enough to dress the granite Egyptians quarried) and then a thousand big guys with ropes and levers being directed by a dozen pros who knew the tricks of Big Rock Vid Guy and a few others that our cranes&Diesels age no longer needs. cn
> 
> <edit> Nice site discussing how some of these things could have been done. For me the take-home lesson was "basic techniques, very high skill level, awesome dedication to the job". \http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/extremasonry.htm#moving


yea i watched it and was impressed, but that was a tiny weight compared to the examples i brought up. so you're sayin lalibela was soft rock...dunno what kinda rock it actually is, but aight ill take that one. weird the story of them bein built says "angels" did all the hard shit at night and the human workers worked durin the day. now i know our ancestors liked to make shit up, but why would they make somethin like that up? its just buildin a church. puma punku is somethin that imo cannot be described by modern or non modern tools. did you look at the cuts on those stones and how the structure worked? i mean im not sayin our ancestors were retarded, but thats complex as hell and they were sayin the cuts made in them are still razor sharp after all those years. i dunno what kinda tools our ancestors would have used to cut like millimeter lines in stone in perfect ass lines and depth, but id like to see them if thats how they did it.


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## cannabineer (Oct 28, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> yea i watched it and was impressed, but that was a tiny weight compared to the examples i brought up. so you're sayin lalibela was soft rock...dunno what kinda rock it actually is, but aight ill take that one. weird the story of them bein built says "angels" did all the hard shit at night and the human workers worked durin the day. now i know our ancestors liked to make shit up, but why would they make somethin like that up? its just buildin a church. puma punku is somethin that imo cannot be described by modern or non modern tools. did you look at the cuts on those stones and how the structure worked? i mean im not sayin our ancestors were retarded, but thats complex as hell and they were sayin the cuts made in them are still razor sharp after all those years. i dunno what kinda tools our ancestors would have used to cut like millimeter lines in stone in perfect ass lines and depth, but id like to see them if thats how they did it.


What skilled people can do with hand tools is simply amazing. Our generation tends not to think along those lines because good handiwork is a rare skill that has been pretty much banished to luxury handcrafts and the work of artists.
I have seen pics of "machined" stone surfaces in Egypt and Puma Punku (or Pumapunku or Puma Punke ... depending on who's writing) that can be explained by "primitive" but well-made, well-handled examples of, say, the rope saw. 

As for the "angels" citation ... I just like to think that the literate ancients had some really nice drugs.  cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

ohmy said:


> when I went to church the priest did bad things to me....Thank you god because they said I had to worship you I was violated bad and hard the word of god crammed down my thorough along with dirty old priest cock...perfecr


We've gone through this so many times. That priests actions were not a cause from Christianity. He's a sick guy all on his own. Christianity actually forbids his actions.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

Lol, you know sativa is high. This is the nicest he's ever been.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 28, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> What skilled people can do with hand tools is simply amazing. Our generation tends not to think along those lines because good handiwork is a rare skill that has been pretty much banished to luxury handcrafts and the work of artists.
> I have seen pics of "machined" stone surfaces in Egypt and Puma Punku (or Pumapunku or Puma Punke ... depending on who's writing) that can be explained by "primitive" but well-made, well-handled examples of, say, the rope saw.
> 
> As for the "angels" citation ... I just like to think that the literate ancients had some really nice drugs.  cn


doin that shit with a rope would take FOREVER but it coulda been done. still doesnt explain the precise cuts that are intricate and sharp as fuck. plus the fact that puma has no kinda stones or places they coulda got all that shit from. i guess i just dont have as much faith in human ingenuity as yall do.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 28, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> im too lazy to go back and quote your other post, but who were those ppl? why are their opinions right and mine are just as you all are sayin just flat out dumb? they talk of nothin that i brought up. i dont see any experts or any others givin reasons as to how these structures came to be. once again and for like the 5th time i never said the "aliens done it" was a hard fact. its what i think it coulda been. also for the 5th time nobody has givin me any kinda expert analysis on lalibela or balbec as to how they were made. and if we cannot make it with the tools they use back in the day and would be a super pain in the ass to make today....how did they get made? like i said im very open to any other explanations as to how they did these things.
> 
> ima ask you again do you think aliens are real? do scientists think aliens are real?



I didn't intend to offer you answers to your questions on those structures. There was dispute concerning ancient alien theory being science, and you seemed to wonder why it wasn't. I was just trying to reassure that it was not science and is rejected by the scientific community, for the reasons of not following the scientific method. We have great reason for demanding that theories follow this method in order to be taken seriously. I am not sure anything makes you wrong and those people right. What they are doing is offering rational criticisms that are completely justified. These are the sorts of analysis we get from peer review.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 28, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I didn't intend to offer you answers to your questions on those structures. There was dispute concerning ancient alien theory being science, and you seemed to wonder why it wasn't. I was just trying to reassure that it was not science and is rejected by the scientific community, for the reasons of not following the scientific method. We have great reason for demanding that theories follow this method in order to be taken seriously. I am not sure anything makes you wrong and those people right. What they are doing is offering rational criticisms that are completely justified. These are the sorts of analysis we get from peer review.


oh dude like i said half the shit they say on that shit is just non-sense in my eyes. the only times ive seen these structures is on the show. i just dont understand how a scientist can sit there and say yes we have life outside our planet, but its prolly all microscopic life or bacterial life. they do realize that the universe is big as fuck and has many different age stars? if we evolved in a few billion years here whats to say there isnt the same kinda planet who is billions of years ahead of us?


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 28, 2011)

and honestly im more on the alien side because im about damn sure ive seen them flyin around before. granted i was super high when i saw it but i wasnt the only one in that backyard that saw what i saw. it looked like a star that was movin to the left in the sky so i was like cool check out that slow movin comet or somethin then on a dime it started movin back to the right. at this point im rackin my brain tryin to figure out what it could be. it wasnt a plane because they had planes in the are at the same time we saw this object and the planes moved nor looked nothin like the object. then after it was goin to the right it shot up and vanished.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 28, 2011)

What scientist says that? To an honest scientist, there can be only one answer; I don't know. The size of the universe and mathematics involved in calculating the odds of life outside our solar system existing are the only real things they can use, both of which suggest it does. 

Why do you find it more likely an object from another solar system traversed the void of space light years from earth instead of your brain (as well as your friends brains, all of which are suceptable to known error) simply glitched out at that moment and made you think you see something you actually didn't? It happens to all of us everyday and takes knowledge and an awareness as well as training to avoid them, and people still do.

What's the difference between you seeing that object and saying its aliens from me seeing the exact same object and saying its a manmade satellite orbiting earth?


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 28, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> What scientist says that? To an honest scientist, there can be only one answer; I don't know. The size of the universe and mathematics involved in calculating the odds of life outside our solar system existing are the only real things they can use, both of which suggest it does.
> 
> Why do you find it more likely an object from another solar system traversed the void of space light years from earth instead of your brain (as well as your friends brains, all of which are suceptable to known error) simply glitched out at that moment and made you think you see something you actually didn't? It happens to all of us everyday and takes knowledge and an awareness as well as training to avoid them, and people still do.
> 
> What's the difference between you seeing that object and saying its aliens from me seeing the exact same object and saying its a manmade satellite orbiting earth?


because i dont think a satellite would suddenly change directions out of nowhere. if im wrong correct me, but i think they have to stay in orbit. and so you're tryin to say that its more logical that all of our brains glitched at the same time for the same amount of time seein the same exact thing than aliens?


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 29, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> because i dont think a satellite would suddenly change directions out of nowhere. if im wrong correct me, but i think they have to stay in orbit. and so you're tryin to say that its more logical that all of our brains glitched at the same time for the same amount of time seein the same exact thing than aliens?


Well wouldn't it be more likely a government has technology you don't know about than aliens?

Yes, you all thought you saw something. That is more likely than 'aliens' because we know, and have documented accounts, it happens all the time. Bigfoot, Elvis, ghosts.. You name it


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## ohmy (Oct 29, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> We've gone through this so many times. That priests actions were not a cause from Christianity. He's a sick guy all on his own. Christianity actually forbids his actions.


they made a nice place for all the pervs to hide and play with lil boys.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 29, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Well wouldn't it be more likely a government has technology you don't know about than aliens?
> 
> Yes, you all thought you saw something. That is more likely than 'aliens' because we know, and have documented accounts, it happens all the time. Bigfoot, Elvis, ghosts.. You name it


i mean you could be right with the govt thing...i dunno why the govt would be testin advanced shit around my p.o.s town, but it is possible. i just dont see how you think we all imagined this. thats just false dude i doubt that all of us saw the exact same thing at the exact same time. considerin i was the first to see it and i didnt say a word i just watched it till someone said they saw it aswell...i think that takes away from the oh he's seein shit so i see it too.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 29, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> because i dont think a satellite would suddenly change directions out of nowhere. if im wrong correct me, but i think they have to stay in orbit. and so you're tryin to say that its more logical that all of our brains glitched at the same time for the same amount of time seein the same exact thing than aliens?


It's far more likely that a group hallucination took place than intelligent extra terrestrial life visited our planet. There have been multitudes of reports of shared group visions, and it may not be that you all saw the exact same thing. Sometimes it goes like this: You say to your friend, 'Did you see that?!', and your friend responds, 'Yeah!' Then, each person adds a little something of their own, 'it zigzagged', and another person, 'then it shot straight up in the air!' As you recall the experience, everyone's mind produces the collective memory as if they each actually saw the same thing. This process can be enhanced by ingesting mind altering substances. Memories aren't like a digital recording, we don't have a single area of the mind where our experiences are stored and recalled accurately every time, and memories can shift and change over time. After witnessing a crime, a dozen eye witnesses will recall details VERY differently (the gunman was tall, short, black, white, wearing a read jacket, wearing a blue jacket). The witnesses are all telling the truth of what they saw, but obviously they can't all be correct. It always amuses me getting together with old friends or at a family gathering where someone will say, 'remember the time...?' only to realize their recollection is slightly (or grossly) different than my own, and others present. I'm not saying this is exactly what happened in your situation, but I believe it's closer to the truth than the alien explanation. It's that Occam's razor thing again...


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 29, 2011)

tyler.durden said:


> It's far more likely that a group hallucination took place than intelligent extra terrestrial life visited our planet. There have been multitudes of reports of shared group visions, and it may not be that you all saw the exact same thing. Sometimes it goes like this: You say to your friend, 'Did you see that?!', and your friend responds, 'Yeah!' Then, each person adds a little something of their own, 'it zigzagged', and another person, 'then it shot straight up in the air!' As you recall the experience, everyone's mind produces the collective memory as if they each actually saw the same thing. This process can be enhanced by ingesting mind altering substances. Memories aren't like a digital recording, we don't have a single area of the mind where our experiences are stored and recalled accurately every time, and memories can shift and change over time. After witnessing a crime, a dozen eye witnesses will recall details VERY differently (the gunman was tall, short, black, white, wearing a read jacket, wearing a blue jacket). The witnesses are all telling the truth of what they saw, but obviously they can't all be correct. It always amuses me getting together with old friends or at a family gathering where someone will say, 'remember the time...?' only to realize their recollection is slightly (or grossly) different than my own, and others present. I'm not saying this is exactly what happened in your situation, but I believe it's closer to the truth than the alien explanation. It's that Occam's razor thing again...


read my previous post sir. we had 4 people outside and myself and another friend was smokin, another had some legal and his gf didnt smoke or do anythin that night. i remember it like it was yesterday cause it was durin the last ufc fight card.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 29, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> read my previous post sir. we had 4 people outside and myself and another friend was smokin, another had some legal and his gf didnt smoke or do anythin that night. i remember it like it was yesterday cause it was durin the last ufc fight card.


I understand. Mind altering substances are not necessary for the phenomenon I was referring to to take place. My point is just because we are certain of what we remember doesn't make the memory accurate to what actually took place (my eyewitness example). I have many memories that I've come to accept are not entirely accurate through several third party verifications, and in studying cognitive science we can see how this happens. I'm not saying I'm right, just that it's a more reasonable explanation...


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 29, 2011)

ohmy said:


> they made a nice place for all the pervs to hide and play with lil boys.


That's like saying if someone raped a kid in walmart, then walmart is a "nice little place for all the pervs to hide and play with lip boys". Neither walmart nor (most) churches allow child molestation.


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## Landmark (Oct 29, 2011)

What is the nature of division?


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 29, 2011)

tyler.durden said:


> I understand. Mind altering substances are not necessary for the phenomenon I was referring to to take place. My point is just because we are certain of what we remember doesn't make the memory accurate to what actually took place (my eyewitness example). I have many memories that I've come to accept are not entirely accurate through several third party verifications, and in studying cognitive science we can see how this happens. I'm not saying I'm right, just that it's a more reasonable explanation...


i see what yall are sayin that aliens is a jump to conclusions, but i really dunno what it coulda been. it for sure wasnt a plane cause like i said there was a plane of to the left of it and it was a lot lower and had the blinkin lights on it. this just looked like a star movin in crazy ways then vanish


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## ohmy (Oct 29, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> That's like saying if someone raped a kid in walmart, then walmart is a "nice little place for all the pervs to hide and play with lip boys". Neither walmart nor (most) churches allow child molestation.[/QUOTE christains did not build walmart  If you knew the trure numbers of perv preist you would stay at walmart to feel safe if you was a kid


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 29, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> That's like saying if someone raped a kid in walmart, then walmart is a "nice little place for all the pervs to hide and play with lip boys". Neither walmart nor (most) churches allow child molestation.


Incorrect. Walmart doesnt. The christian church...once found out as a pedophil they simply send you to another church. I wish I could remember this documentary off hand, but its about this string of pedophilia that was happening ALL OVER california for like 20 years in churches. Complaints would get made.and a pastor would be relocated.to have his position filled by a complained about pedophile from another church. The administration from the churches knew, they just were told to not say anything.. The church has a long history of harboring pedophiles. This movie was blatantly FUCKED UP!!


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 29, 2011)

tyler.durden said:


> It's far more likely that a group hallucination took place than intelligent extra terrestrial life visited our planet. There have been multitudes of reports of shared group visions, and it may not be that you all saw the exact same thing. Sometimes it goes like this: You say to your friend, 'Did you see that?!', and your friend responds, 'Yeah!' Then, each person adds a little something of their own, 'it zigzagged', and another person, 'then it shot straight up in the air!' As you recall the experience, everyone's mind produces the collective memory as if they each actually saw the same thing. This process can be enhanced by ingesting mind altering substances. Memories aren't like a digital recording, we don't have a single area of the mind where our experiences are stored and recalled accurately every time, and memories can shift and change over time. After witnessing a crime, a dozen eye witnesses will recall details VERY differently (the gunman was tall, short, black, white, wearing a read jacket, wearing a blue jacket). The witnesses are all telling the truth of what they saw, but obviously they can't all be correct. It always amuses me getting together with old friends or at a family gathering where someone will say, 'remember the time...?' only to realize their recollection is slightly (or grossly) different than my own, and others present. I'm not saying this is exactly what happened in your situation, but I believe it's closer to the truth than the alien explanation. It's that Occam's razor thing again...


Have you ever heard of ergotisim? Google it, its a game changer when you think how many instances of ergotism there were...salem which trials, boston tea party (the original, not the one full of idiots)


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## sen.c (Oct 29, 2011)

> christains did not build walmart


So you got the employer records to prove this? That is how ignorant you sound. I am sure that if you were molested as a child by a priest or anyone for that matter that all of us "Christian and non "Christian" alike are truly sorry and it is something that's wrong and not acceptable by the majority of people world wide.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 29, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> i see what yall are sayin that aliens is a jump to conclusions, but i really dunno what it coulda been. it for sure wasnt a plane cause like i said there was a plane of to the left of it and it was a lot lower and had the blinkin lights on it. this just looked like a star movin in crazy ways then vanish


Experimental test planes are often sent up with 'regular' escorts. Try to find the very recent "area 51 debunked" where many officials come forward and admit that the govt was more than happy to let people believe it's secret planes were alien aircraft. They didn't intend for this belief to occur, but they weren't about to reveal secret technology to clear it up. This may have nothing to do with what you saw. You may also want to learn about common perception and memory mistakes. Ever hear of the miracle of the sun? 

We look to these things before aliens because 1) we have no evidential arrows pointing to aliens 2) these misconceptions are real, documented and reproducible 3) in most cases investigations have turned up these misconceptions and mistakes as the root of the sighting. 4) Occams Razor

Scientist do not say any life out there is microscopic. They do not know. What they do know is the laws of physics which are the same everywhere in the universe we can observe. This makes the chances of alien life very probable, while the chances of them visiting remains highly improbable. Also known as the Fermi Paradox.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 29, 2011)

Hey, Phil. I wasn't familiar with ergotism, but I just looked it up. That is interesting, and might explain some strange shared visions throughout history...


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## Filthy Phil (Oct 29, 2011)

tyler.durden said:


> Hey, Phil. I wasn't familiar with ergotism, but I just looked it up. That is interesting, and might explain some strange shared visions throughout history...


A lot of bizzare occurences throughout history might be explained by outbreaks. They used to call it St Elmos Fire. I think a lot of cases of witch trialscould he explained by this, I think the boston tea party too. I also think that in the bible when "speaking in tongues" began, when they saw visions and fire on eachothers heads, people spoke but their words werent understandable....sounds like ergotism to me. Funny thing, if it was ergotism, people today who speak in tongues have just ritualized a case of people tripping balls and not being able to speak.... Kinda funny


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 29, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Experimental test planes are often sent up with 'regular' escorts. Try to find the very recent "area 51 debunked" where many officials come forward and admit that the govt was more than happy to let people believe it's secret planes were alien aircraft. They didn't intend for this belief to occur, but they weren't about to reveal secret technology to clear it up. This may have nothing to do with what you saw. You may also want to learn about common perception and memory mistakes. Ever hear of the miracle of the sun?
> 
> We look to these things before aliens because 1) we have no evidential arrows pointing to aliens 2) these misconceptions are real, documented and reproducible 3) in most cases investigations have turned up these misconceptions and mistakes as the root of the sighting. 4) Occams Razor
> 
> Scientist do not say any life out there is microscopic. They do not know. What they do know is the laws of physics which are the same everywhere in the universe we can observe. This makes the chances of alien life very probable, while the chances of them visiting remains highly improbable. Also known as the Fermi Paradox.


i guess that damned history channel lied to me again about life outside the universe...that plane that was in the are at the same time was nowhere near the object. i actually have that area 51 and ive watched it many times, but none that were talked to actually worked on the aircraft so for them to say what the origin of it was..doesnt fly with me(get it lol) they said they were told only the shit they needed to know and i dunno if it was in that one or another area 51 one that said it but one of them said there was a certain percentage of shit ppl said they saw that wasnt them or anythin they were doin.

is aliens visitin us just not an option of how it went in yalls minds?


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 29, 2011)

somethin that i feel christians did wrong is ownin chik-fil-a because of them i cant get my favorite chicken nuggets on sunday!


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## Heisenberg (Oct 29, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> is aliens visitin us just not an option of how it went in yalls minds?


Of course it is an option, but we need evidence. Anecdotal information is only enough evidence to begin an investigation. It is essentially an observation, the first step in the scientific method. To draw a conclusion from only the first step, without any attempts at falsification or controls, it almost certain to result in errors. Establishing that aliens exist is only one small criteria that the ancient aliens theory needs to satisfy. Criticizing a theory is a natural part of the process of validating it. With the ancient aliens theory, the very _process_ does not survive falsification. If the process is not sound, then all answers are highly suspect and when we examine them and find errors, we are going to be able to trace those errors back to sloppy methodology. Science attempt to prove itself right by failing to prove itself wrong. The ancient aliens theory makes no attempts to prove itself wrong, and makes every assumption needed to support it preconceived views. Furthermore, if we look into the minds behind the thoery and the show we see incidences of supplying false data and total lack of credentials.



> Some also question von Däniken's credibility, as he has also knowingly put forward fraudulent evidence to advance his hypotheses, such as photographs of pottery "depicting UFOs", supposedly from an archaeological dig dating back to the biblical era. The PBS television series Nova determined that this was a fraud, and even located the potter who made them. When confronted with this evidence, von Däniken argued that the deception was justified because some people would only believe his ideas if they saw actual proof.





> *David Hatcher Childress* (born 1957) is an American author and publisher of books on topics on *alternative* history and historical *revisionism*. Childress claims no academic credentials as a professional archaeologist nor in any other scientific field of study, having left the University of Montana after one year to travel the world to personally research the subjects about which he would later write.





> *Giorgio A. Tsoukalos* (born March 14, 197 is a Swiss born Greek writer, television presenter, and proponent of the idea that ancient astronauts interacted with ancient humans, and is a consulting producer of the television series _Ancient Aliens_. Tsoukalos is a 1998 graduate of Ithaca College in Ithaca, New York with a degree in *sports information* and communication.


Is it any surprise these people place no importance on the scientific method? They have not be taught how, or have decided the method can be subverted to give the thoery support.

Jumping to conclusions is natural, but much of nature is counter-intuitive. Without strict standards and awareness of the mistakes humans are prone to we can never really trust the answers we have. Science is a systematic way of thoroughly and carefully observing nature while using consistent logic to evaluate the results. This results in a self criticizing and self correcting method of reaching the truth, and lets us have confidence in the claims we make.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 29, 2011)

it really isnt. like i said half the shit they say on the show to me is bull i really just look at the pics that cant be denied because the structures are real and go through my head what could have made it and how.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 29, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> it really isnt. like i said half the shit they say on the show to me is bull i really just look at the pics that cant be denied because the structures are real and go through my head what could have made it and how.


Welcome to the awe that results from clear and careful observation. It can be demonstrated fairly conclusively that humans made these structures. They are a result of human ingenuity and dedication. This is a thoery which has support, and it is a good example of how we do not need religion, pseudoscience and myths to find true mystery and inspiration. The inspiration comes from knowing that they did do it, and the mystery is how. You now have a question which drives you (to whatever degree) to find an answer. Don't you want your answer to be the best approximation of the truth we can hope for? I regret I am unable to enlighten you about the structures you questioned, ancient aliens thoery is one course I've chosen to leave off my plate. I encourage you to seek the opinions of experts and report to us what you find, I would be very interested.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 29, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Welcome to the awe that results from clear and careful observation. It can be demonstrated fairly conclusively that humans made these structures. They are a result of human ingenuity and dedication. This is a thoery which has support, and it is a good example of how we do not need religion, pseudoscience and myths to find true mystery and inspiration. The inspiration comes from knowing that they did do it, and the mystery is how. You now have a question which drives you (to whatever degree) to find an answer. Don't you want your answer to be the best approximation of the truth we can hope for? I regret I am unable to enlighten you about the structures you questioned, ancient aliens thoery is one course I've chosen to leave off my plate. I encourage you to seek the opinions of experts and report to us what you find, I would be very interested.


when i think of people buildin things that are hard today by our standards waaaaaaaaay back in the day is when i start to think maybe they had help. ive watched all the vids posted about raisin multi-ton stones, but those too are just how people of today think they did it way back when. correct me if im wrong, but i dont believe any plans have ever been found for any of these structures written or verbal. i know us humans are very crafty, but i feel givin credit to that on a couple of these places is just a reach. just as much of a reach as sayin aliens done it. for example aa said that in lalibela's case they wrote down that angels came down at night and helped make them. now am i suppose to assume that our ancestors were just writin non-sense as to how it was built when it was really built by just them? humans have a thirst for greatness and i think if they were buildin amazin things of that nature they would have taken full credit for it without question.

i dunno if any experts will speak to me, but i would love to be able to find them and ask them these questions.


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## mindphuk (Oct 29, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> when i think of people buildin things that are hard today by our standards waaaaaaaaay back in the day is when i start to think maybe they had help. ive watched all the vids posted about raisin multi-ton stones, but those too are just how people of today think they did it way back when. correct me if im wrong, but i dont believe any plans have ever been found for any of these structures written or verbal. i know us humans are very crafty, but i feel givin credit to that on a couple of these places is just a reach. just as much of a reach as sayin aliens done it. for example aa said that in lalibela's case they wrote down that angels came down at night and helped make them. now am i suppose to assume that our ancestors were just writin non-sense as to how it was built when it was really built by just them? humans have a thirst for greatness and i think if they were buildin amazin things of that nature they would have taken full credit for it without question.
> 
> i dunno if any experts will speak to me, but i would love to be able to find them and ask them these questions.


 Have you ever looked at Greek or Roman architecture with the same wonder? The Roman Pantheon with its domed ceiling made entirely of concrete is incredible and would likely be mysterious if we didn't have some clues to how they did it. It was built at a time when most of the world was living in mud huts.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 30, 2011)

not really cause its simple domed ceilins in churches...mud huts in a dome shape. i think they just understood the strength of the arch/dome and used it alot no matter what the material is. i doubt the concrete in that dome ceilin isnt hundreds of tons either. its beautiful architecture tho


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## mindphuk (Oct 30, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> not really cause its simple domed ceilins in churches...mud huts in a dome shape. i think they just understood the strength of the arch/dome and used it alot no matter what the material is. i doubt the concrete in that dome ceilin isnt hundreds of tons either. its beautiful architecture tho


You're right it's thousands of tons, 4,535 metric tons and it has lasted for 2000 years. The point is that you have no problems thinking this is man made and designed when in fact its much more complicated than the structures you are attributing to aliens.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 30, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> You're right it's thousands of tons, 4,535 metric tons and it has lasted for 2000 years. The point is that you have no problems thinking this is man made and designed when in fact its much more complicated than the structures you are attributing to aliens.


have you looked at puma punku? a dome has nothin on that place. im sure total it weighs that much, but not thousands a piece.


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## Shannon Alexander (Oct 30, 2011)

Okay so to be on point with the original topic, I do not know if it has come up yet as I skipped a few pages but sexual relationships have been ruined by Christianity..!

I wish I could remember the exact verse but reading in the old testament it speaks out against sexual immorality... which many people have lumped premarital sex in with sexual immorality... which in the bible that is not so, as the term fornication originally was a reference to sex with a prostitute. it states somewhere in the old testament to that if a man is to have sex with a virgin that he must pay her father the wedding dowry as an other man may not want her if she is no longer a virgin...

Sooo Christianity ruined consensual sex between willing people of consenting age...


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## Shannon Alexander (Oct 30, 2011)

And also they have ruined the 10 commandments by replacing "Thou shalt not murder" with "Thou shalt not kill" which are two very different things as to murder someone is to kill someone without proper cause...


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## mindphuk (Oct 30, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> have you looked at puma punku? a dome has nothin on that place. im sure total it weighs that much, but not thousands a piece.


So you're amazed by a temple that was built 500 years AFTER the Pantheon and the Coliseum? The largest block was only 130 tons. That pales in comparison with the size and scope of the Coliseum. Sorry but "I don't know how they did something" is not strong evidence for aliens or miracles.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 30, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> So you're amazed by a temple that was built 500 years AFTER the Pantheon and the Coliseum? The largest block was only 130 tons. That pales in comparison with the size and scope of the Coliseum. Sorry but "I don't know how they did something" is not strong evidence for aliens or miracles.


yea im amazed by a temple that has intricate/perfect cuts varyin in size, depth and quality, perfect engraved patters that are like a millimeter deep, and the fact that there really isnt anywhere around that area to get that kinda material that they used to make it...yea im amazed by that and no i dont think they did that shit on their own.


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## mindphuk (Oct 30, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> yea im amazed by a temple that has intricate/perfect cuts varyin in size, depth and quality, perfect engraved patters that are like a millimeter deep, and the fact that *there really isnt anywhere around that area to get that kinda material that they used to make it.*..yea im amazed by that and no i dont think they did that shit on their own.


Quit getting your facts from a stupid TV show. 

"archaeologists concluded that these and other red sandstone blocks were transported up a steep incline from a quarry near Lake Titicaca roughly 10 km away. Smaller andesite blocks that were used for stone facing and carvings came from quarries within the Copacabana Peninsula about 90 km away from and across Lake Titicaca from the Pumapunka and the rest of the Tiwanaku Site."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumapunku


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 30, 2011)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem_in_popular_culture

Exact same thing applies to ancient humans creating seemingly unbelievable monuments.


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## sen.c (Oct 30, 2011)

Plain and simple the human species is quite resourceful indeed. Just look at the leaps and bounds we have moved forward in the last 10 years, in comparison it is light years ahead of how things progressed back then. It is proof indeed that man is quite resourceful when it comes down to it.


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## MJstudent (Oct 30, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> yea im amazed by a temple that has intricate/perfect cuts varyin in size, depth and quality, perfect engraved patters that are like a millimeter deep, and the fact that there really isnt anywhere around that area to get that kinda material that they used to make it...yea im amazed by that and no i dont think they did that shit on their own.


 yeah man that stufs crazy no way in hell we did that stuff, we cant do that stuff now without huge machines and machine made blades and sand/water blasting type sht



mindphuk said:


> Quit getting your facts from a stupid TV show.
> 
> "archaeologists concluded that these and other red sandstone blocks were transported up a steep incline from a quarry near Lake Titicaca roughly 10 km away. Smaller andesite blocks that were used for stone facing and carvings came from quarries within the Copacabana Peninsula about 90 km away from and across Lake Titicaca from the Pumapunka and the rest of the Tiwanaku Site."
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumapunku


so you found out where it came from. now for the real money question, how do they propose they put them together where rocks have less tan 1mm between them, we make bricks, becasue we dont have the technology to presision cut a mountain in half anymore.


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## mindphuk (Oct 31, 2011)

MJstudent said:


> yeah man that stufs crazy no way in hell we did that stuff, we cant do that stuff now without huge machines and machine made blades and sand/water blasting type sht
> 
> 
> 
> so you found out where it came from. now for the real money question, how do they propose they put them together where rocks have less tan 1mm between them, we make bricks, becasue we dont have the technology to presision cut a mountain in half anymore.


 All of the finishing work is done by hand. Not saying it isn't labor intensive. Remember, these people could spend generations building these things. The bottom of the structure dates much earlier than later additions. The Coliseum was built in a fraction of the time and that mortar-less construction has massive amounts of force bearing down on the arches. Not to mention the mass of the crowd that it has to support which is a dynamic load as people are moving and jumping around in their seats during events. I think anyone that automatically thinks aliens is discounting the ingenuity of humans. Our intelligence is essentially the same as it was 5,000 years ago, only our available tools have changed. Quit trying to apply modern technology to buildings that weren't built that way. A massive crane might have a hard time lifting a 100 ton block but using ramps made from dirt, wood and stone will get the block up there as well, it just takes longer.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 31, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> All of the finishing work is done by hand. Not saying it isn't labor intensive. Remember, these people could spend generations building these things. The bottom of the structure dates much earlier than later additions. The Coliseum was built in a fraction of the time and that mortar-less construction has massive amounts of force bearing down on the arches. Not to mention the mass of the crowd that it has to support which is a dynamic load as people are moving and jumping around in their seats during events. I think anyone that automatically thinks aliens is discounting the ingenuity of humans. Our intelligence is essentially the same as it was 5,000 years ago, only our available tools have changed. Quit trying to apply modern technology to buildings that weren't built that way. A massive crane might have a hard time lifting a 100 ton block but using ramps made from dirt, wood and stone will get the block up there as well, it just takes longer.


do you have proof all that work was done by hand?


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## mindphuk (Oct 31, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> do you have proof all that work was done by hand?


 Proof? You want proof that ancient people did their stone work with metal hand tools by hand but you are willing to accept the idea that aliens helped because of mere speculation? I can see this discussion is a waste of time.


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## cannabineer (Oct 31, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> do you have proof all that work was done by hand?


This can rightly be turned around.

The idea that this was done by people (brilliantly) using simple and known technologies is very plausible.
The idea that it was done with the assistance of a nonhuman agency for which no other plausible support exists is ... nothing short of fantastic.
So ...
can you prove, or point to internally and externally consistent proof, that it wasn't done the likely way? cn


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## Heisenberg (Oct 31, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> do you have proof all that work was done by hand?


Do you really want to have asked such a backward question? Or was this humor?


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 31, 2011)

you can look back at all my posts because i never once said what im sayin is right or aliens doin it is fact. his statement was "they did it by hand."


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 31, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> you can look back at all my posts because i never once said what im sayin is right or aliens doin it is fact. his statement was "they did it by hand."


That's the only thing we have evidence for... There's tools, and labour camps where the workers lived, dated at the time of the Egyptians; how much more evidence do you need?

[video=youtube;eUB4j0n2UDU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUB4j0n2UDU[/video]


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## tyler.durden (Oct 31, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> That's the only thing we have evidence for... There's tools, and labour camps where the workers lived, dated at the time of the Egyptians; how much more evidence do you need?


Great video, BB. I love Shermer and have seen him lecture several times. Nice clear, concise explanation of the scientific method...


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## spandy (Nov 1, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> Proof? You want proof that ancient people did their stone work with metal hand tools by hand but you are willing to accept the idea that aliens helped because of mere speculation? I can see this discussion is a waste of time.


 
Yeah, cause believing in aliens makes much more sense than maybe something like documentation being lost during a war/riot that told exactly how it was done by human hands alone, it's not like those people kept track of everything and tell the world every fucking move they made on facebook or that everything they wrote down was preserved. 

Some people need proof, some people only need believe, and the rest just make shit up.


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## blazinkill504 (Nov 1, 2011)

i want evidence that humans did it on their own and we dont have that. therefore you cant say that humans did it for sure just like i cant say aliens did the shit for sure.


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## Heisenberg (Nov 1, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> i want evidence that humans did it on their own and we dont have that. therefore you cant say that humans did it for sure just like i cant say aliens did the shit for sure.


So, after all we have said, the two explanations are on equal grounds in your mind? One is just as likely as the other? You suppose we have no rationale for saying humans did it alone? The people saying aliens are just as justified as those saying humans? This is starting to sound like creationism when it criticizes evolution. IOW, it is done out of ignorance of what the data says.

We have no valid reason to suspect they did not do it alone. Maybe leprechauns helped. Maybe angels lent their strength. Perhaps Godzilla helped place the large stones and fused them together with his fire breath. If we are going to ignore self-evident data and give weight to groundless speculation, then we must consider all of these.


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## mindphuk (Nov 1, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> i want evidence that humans did it on their own and we dont have that. therefore you cant say that humans did it for sure just like i cant say aliens did the shit for sure.


I think the tool marks on the stones are pretty good evidence. Of course they could have been placed there by aliens to fool us...


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 1, 2011)

* The pyramids are piles of rock.*


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## cannabineer (Nov 1, 2011)

beefbisquit said:


> * the pyramids are piles of rock.*


e-i-e-i-o!


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 2, 2011)

And on that farm he had a dog....


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## blazinkill504 (Nov 2, 2011)

yall must have a lot more faith in our ancestors than i do then. i dont see much data to support that they did it alone. no kinda plans and ones that have stories of how they were built the very ppl you have soo much faith in said they had help. you're reachin with the godzilla shit you're takin somethin that couldnt possibly work at all and are tryin to make a point with it.

and what tool marks on puma punku do you see? and yea the pyramids are just piles of rocks....with some pretty nice granite work in them too...granite is split by sawin them with diamond tipped saws. ancient egyptians had diamond tipped saws now?


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## cannabineer (Nov 2, 2011)

Granite is split hydraulically and with explosives nowadays. It is finished with diamond tooling. We use diamond because it's best for the job. People tooled and finished granite and lesser stones for a long time before, using less efficient but still "workable" methods. Consider how diamonds are cut, or were cut before lasers came into their own. A rotaing bronze disc impregnated with oil and diamond dust - two soft materials and one only as hard as the workpiece - did the job.
The hardest component in granite is quartz, the basic component of desert sand. A grease-and-sand-impregnated rope will cut a surprisingly neat groove or slot into granite, if you supply enough labor, and enough rope. 
cn


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## spandy (Nov 2, 2011)

I think they were just as complex thinkers as we are today, just we have running water and some other stuff that they didn't.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 2, 2011)

spandy said:


> I think they were just as complex thinkers as we are today, just we have running water and some other stuff that they didn't.


Like television, vehicles, stoves, microwaves, lightbulbs, and a couple other things.... .


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## MJstudent (Nov 2, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> Have you ever looked at Greek or Roman architecture with the same wonder? The Roman Pantheon with its domed ceiling made entirely of concrete is incredible and would likely be mysterious if we didn't have some clues to how they did it. It was built at a time when most of the world was living in mud huts.


but it was also built 3 thousand years after, and its still not as stable, or intricate


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 2, 2011)

I used to be a granite installer and fabricator. 

The kind of diamonds they use in saws are man made, and don't have a gemological value like the kind of diamonds in rings, bracelets etc. I'm pretty sure we've been tooling almost every type of stone imaginable before we had man-made diamond saws and TNT. It just took longer to do the same things, and people spent a lot longer on, and worked harder at what they did.

You don't think a million or so people could drag some big rocks and stack them into a neat pile over a few hundred years?


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 2, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> I used to be a granite installer and fabricator.
> 
> The kind of diamonds they use in saws are man made, and don't have a gemological value like the kind of diamonds in rings, bracelets etc. I'm pretty sure we've been tooling almost every type of stone imaginable before we had man-made diamond saws and TNT. It just took longer to do the same things, and people spent a lot longer on, and worked harder at what they did.
> 
> You don't think a million or so people could drag some big rocks and stack them into a neat pile over a few hundred years?


Not to be a dick, but do you have any mathematical equations that shows it's possible for a reasonable amount of people (a million people at once isn't reasonable, or is it?) to stack piles of rocks into such a neat pile?

Again, I'm not trying to sound mean, I'm just curious .


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 2, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Not to be a dick, but do you have any mathematical equations that shows it's possible for a reasonable amount of people (a million people at once isn't reasonable, or is it?) to stack piles of rocks into such a neat pile?
> 
> Again, I'm not trying to sound mean, I'm just curious .


I can show you a video of a single man moving several tons using only wood... you could also just roll the stones on logs... there's a reason the vast, vast majority of scientists who study that time period agree that humans made them.

It wouldn't take one million people pulling on one stone to move it, not to mention the horses or camels or oxen they could use, etc. etc...

Imagine 1000 people polishing and carving designs into stone for 200 years.... lol


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## MJstudent (Nov 2, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> I can show you a video of a single man moving several tons using only wood...


well then show it.......id like to see


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 2, 2011)

[video=youtube;pCvx5gSnfW4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCvx5gSnfW4[/video]


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## mindphuk (Nov 2, 2011)

MJstudent said:


> but it was also built 3 thousand years after, and its still not as stable, or intricate


 Built 3 thousand years after what? That post was in reference to Pumapunku which was built 4-500 years after the Pantheon.


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## mindphuk (Nov 2, 2011)

"The Twelfth Dynasty tomb of Djehutihotep has an illustration of 172 men pulling an alabaster statue of him on a sledge. The statue is estimated to weigh 60 tons and Denys Stocks estimated that 45 workers would be required to start moving a 16,300 kg lubricated block, or eight workers to move a 2,750 kg block." 

So there _is_ evidence that the Egyptians used manual labor to move heavy stones. 

"Monolithic, smooth sided pyramids did not just suddenly appear in Egypt. There was an evolutionary period, leading to the great pyramids of Giza that began with simple mastaba tombs, expanded into step pyramids, which led to experimentation, some of which failed miserably, and culminating with the perfected structure. In addition, the decorative themes associated with pyramids also evolved over time.

We not only find the Egyptian's ancient stone cutting and other tools within the ruins of pyramids, we also find some of the ramps that they used, and evidence of other construction methods. These are contemporary tools, and construction methods that would have fit the times. "​
This doesn't sound like the instructions were from a higher intelligence, it supports the idea that over many centuries, pyramid builders got progressively better. 

"Djoser's complex at Saqqara was most likely designed by the famous architect and priest, Imhotep, and was not only the first pyramid that we know of, but also the first great monumental stone structure that we know of in, or outside of Egypt.. However, like the pyramids in the Americas, it was not a true pyramid, lacking an outer, smooth casing. After Djoser, there was considerable experimentation directed towards building a true pyramid, evidenced by those such as the Bent Pyramid at Dahshure, as well as other greater failures, such as Snofru's pyramid at Meidum, which was the first to be planned as a true pyramid. At first, their attempts to build a true pyramid were foiled by designs with the sides of the pyramid at too steep a slope. However, by the time Snofru built his other pyramid at Dahshure, the Red Pyramid, they had worked this out, for it is the first of the successful, true pyramids.

The culmination of the grand, most monumental true pyramids came in the 4th Dynasty with the builders at Giza, though the Red Pyramid is indeed a colossus structure. However, for all our awestruck wonder at the great pyramids at Giza, this was certainly not the culmination or even the apex of pyramid building. Only in the 5th Dynasty do we see the form of the pyramid complex grow into maturity."​
All of the evidence points to human ingenuity with trial and error. There is no way to rule out the help of extraterrestrials but Occam's Razor cuts deep.


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## olylifter420 (Nov 2, 2011)

I dont side with the psuedoscience, how is it that rhey were able tomove these nassive stones the distances they did and how would they make ropes long enough for millions of people?


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## cannabineer (Nov 2, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> I dont side with the psuedoscience, how is it that rhey were able tomove these nassive stones the distances they did and how would they make ropes long enough for millions of people?


One man per ton for moving a big rock on a sledge andor rollers is more than adequate. 
So the huge stuff could be moved by a thousand strong backs in twenty columns of fifty. Each fifty-man rope could be attached to a transverse mast (log) to focus inline pulling power on a main hawser attaching the mast to the object being pulled. Seen that way, the task goes from being "uh, I dunno" to "Ok, cool!". cn


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 2, 2011)

I think the persuasion of an empire nobody had ever seen before, or the need to build one better may have played a roll in their creations. A kind of 'ancient nationalism'. Plus slavery, though I've seen good arguments that state the builders of the Egyptian pyramids had decent living/working conditions.


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## blazinkill504 (Nov 3, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> I can show you a video of a single man moving several tons using only wood... you could also just roll the stones on logs... there's a reason the vast, vast majority of scientists who study that time period agree that humans made them.
> 
> It wouldn't take one million people pulling on one stone to move it, not to mention the horses or camels or oxen they could use, etc. etc...
> 
> Imagine 1000 people polishing and carving designs into stone for 200 years.... lol


but they said the pyramids were built in 20 years.


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 3, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> but they said the pyramids were built in 20 years.


That was *one* pyramid... the great pyramid of giza. Not *all *pyramids.

Over 100,000 people - just for one pile of rocks! and it still took them 20 years. Assuming they worked 12-14 hours per day, that's over half a BILLION man hours to arrange some rocks, for ONE pyramid.


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## olylifter420 (Nov 3, 2011)

You all are silly, the pyramids came from the heavens already built. To argue otherwise, well.


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## Heisenberg (Nov 3, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> but they said the pyramids were built in 20 years.


The reason we believe humans built the pyramids without advanced help is because we see an evolution of trial and error among their construction. We see early crude mastabas, then we see stacked mastabas, then step pyramids, ect ect. The bent pyramid offers a great example because it's incline had to be changed part way through construction in order for the base to support it. If advanced beings were helping here, we wouldn't expect to see representation of inferior pyramids, or architects making mistakes and learning from them and then changing their techniques over decades and decades. Archeologists are used to determining if a technology or skill was introduced from outside lands or is indigenous to the people. We do not see the typical signs you see when outside knowledge is suddenly introduced, and instead see a process of human learning and improvement. There is a reason we do not here seasoned engineers and architects who are used to planing great projects and seeing them through saying the pyramids were impossible to build for the logistics of the time.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/who-built-the-pyramids.html

Evolution of the pyramid


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 3, 2011)

So we can build a couple of pyramids before I die? Can I live in my own pyramid? That would be badass.


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 3, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So we can build a couple of pyramids before I die? Can I live in my own pyramid? That would be badass.


might need a few hundred thousand "volunteers"


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## olylifter420 (Nov 3, 2011)

thats easy, just tell em its in the name of science





Beefbisquit said:


> might need a few hundred thousand "volunteers"


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## olylifter420 (Nov 3, 2011)

what do you all have to say about the very precise cutting edges that are seen in some structures around the world? I mean they are laser like and very precise... im just baffled how a primitive society could accomplish such great tasks made by hand... crazy and they must have had a lot of weed to smoke


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 3, 2011)

Time and patience is all it takes. They were clearly not as primitive as AA theorists believe they were. They had established mathematics and knew how to implement it into their designs. 

How do you go from "really clean cut lines" to "aliens"? I've been asking that same question since this topic was brought up, you are missing critical step 2 to connect them. 

And again, why do you think it's more likely to say aliens did it than leprechauns on holiday? Just as much evidence to support both.


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## Shannon Alexander (Nov 3, 2011)

I always knew that those little guys had a hand in the pyramids... It's where they kept all their gold...


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## guy incognito (Nov 3, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Do you guys know what is hilariously fucking sad? The fact that I see WAY more people bitching about religion then gangs. I mean fuck, there's so many things wrong with people. Religion could just be another one, but I don't see groups of Christians bust out their ak's and fuck each other up. It happens all around us, yet I don't see a thread about gang violence.
> 
> And op, when have you asked a Christian to leave you alone, and they reply by saying "you're pushing your beliefs on me"?
> 
> ...


I encounter christians everywhere. At work. In my neighborhood. At the store. Even in my own family. I have never run into a dangerous gang or gang member in 28 years though. I have heard things happening scarily close to me at times, but never directly. 

Also gangs don't have any influence outside of their clique and turf. Not much politics is forged with gangs (in the sense you are meaning) behind them. The christian gang however wields tremendous influence over our lives though.


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## guy incognito (Nov 3, 2011)

Fuck I didnt know we were over 700 posts deep. *walks back out of thread*


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## Heisenberg (Nov 3, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> what do you all have to say about the very precise cutting edges that are seen in some structures around the world? I mean they are laser like and very precise... im just baffled how a primitive society could accomplish such great tasks made by hand... crazy and they must have had a lot of weed to smoke


Hi Oly, I think this is a great question and you stated it in a non-assuming way. I think neer gave a good example of greased rope coated with sand making a precise cut, given enough time. You would have to be more specific about which cuts you are curious about to get a better answer, but it's nice to see you engaging in intelligent inquiry.


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## cannabineer (Nov 3, 2011)

Did you know that it is possible to make an optically flat surface with NO tools at all except abrasives in ascending grits?

If you have three fairly flat work pieces and grind A against B, B against C, A against C ... (repeat often) you'll end up with three smooth flat surfaces. They make optical flats (good to a few nanometers!!) this way. cn


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## blazinkill504 (Nov 4, 2011)

if what they say is correct they're the same depth throughout. id imagine it would be pretty damn hard to do that back then esp on certain blocks that were very long case there would be more tension on the ends.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 4, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Hi Oly, I think this is a great question and you stated it in a non-assuming way. I think neer gave a good example of greased rope coated with sand making a precise cut, given enough time. You would have to be more specific about which cuts you are curious about to get a better answer, but it's nice to see you engaging in intelligent inquiry.


yes i agree heph has got more inteligent since questioning his beliefs , ( pats him on back ) .


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## olylifter420 (Nov 4, 2011)

The pyramids in mazatlan mx or the ones in i think asia and also inside the egypt pyramids, very smooth surfaces. I saw them on that ancient alien show, (NO I DONT BELIEVE WHAT THOSE GUYS SAY) but i do look at the facts which are very visible in these structure they present. I cannot rule out aliens existing and i cannot say that they do exist either, but i mean primitive society, no laser guides or gps guiding systems for their structures and they are very well built. Im not saying that since they are primitive they are not intelligent. On the contrary, i do believe that these individuals were highly intelligent because look at us today. Many of us have descended from their bloodlines and there are a great many intelligent people on this planet. The ingenuity of these people is beyond belief to me, but i do believe it because of the role evolution plays in all of this.

thank you for the reply




Heisenberg said:


> Hi Oly, I think this is a great question and you stated it in a non-assuming way. I think neer gave a good example of greased rope coated with sand making a precise cut, given enough time. You would have to be more specific about which cuts you are curious about to get a better answer, but it's nice to see you engaging in intelligent inquiry.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 4, 2011)

oly it seems you believe anything your not supposed to , i am willing to bet you think 911 was an inside job and elvis isnt dead right ?


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## guy incognito (Nov 4, 2011)

I whip my hair back and forth I whip my hair back and forth


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## Heisenberg (Nov 4, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yes i agree heph has got more inteligent since questioning his beliefs , ( pats him on back ) .


Hep and Oly have both made efforts to understand and improve their positions without actually giving them up, proving that it is possible to gain the respect of atheists while simultaneously disagreeing with them. This is something that should be remembered by believers and non-believers alike. Errors and mistakes are one thing, conduct and attitude are another. The differences in our beliefs is a good reason to laugh, a good reason to talk, and and even a good reason to get angry at times. It is not a good reason to hate, exclude or engage in segregation.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 5, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yes i agree heph has got more inteligent since questioning his beliefs , ( pats him on back ) .


I'm sure oly questions his beliefs. Besides, questioning your beliefs doesn't show your level of intelligence.


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## olylifter420 (Nov 9, 2011)

yea, i question them some times and wonder. I think everyone questions what they believe in every once in a blue moon... No harm done in that i think...

complacency is the first step to failure.





Hepheastus420 said:


> I'm sure oly questions his beliefs. Besides, questioning your beliefs doesn't show your level of intelligence.


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## BA142 (Nov 9, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> You all are silly, the pyramids came from the heavens already built. To argue otherwise, well.


That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard...are you being serious?


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## boneheadbob (Nov 9, 2011)

I hit bottom and accepted Jesus as my Saviour. My life took a 180 turn
I am still a sinner but because of the Lords grace I work at being a better human and I will spend eternity in Heaven with the Creator of the universe. And all I had to do was accept a free gift that has changed hundreds of millions of souls over two centuries.

Many will scoff at the notion nonetheless
The Bible is ALIVE and filled with wisdom.

Thats my story and I am sticking to it


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## boneheadbob (Nov 9, 2011)

Holy smokes, I just realized today is the 9th. I took my last drink on 11-8-92, walked into AA on the 9th and turned my life over to Christ on the 15th.

It may not be for everyone but it has worked for me. Heisinberg is right. We still have more in common and we should not let this keep us from being civil twords each other.The Bible does not say keep hounding people untill they say yes.

The Bible says give them the news and if they do not accept it then knock the dust of your sandels and move on. I can find the verse 
Matthew 10-14 Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.


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## boneheadbob (Nov 9, 2011)

Here is something you may find interesting. In the past 18 years I have been a construction sub contractor. I have dealt with hundreds of generals. Arabs, persians, jews, mormons, catholics, heathens and born againers.

By far the worse to deal with were born againers. See them in Church or Bible study, talk about the Lord on the job and then turn around and watch them pull all sorts of underhanded crap related to making money.

Point is Christians are just like everyone else. Having a relationship with Jesus does not make us better then others. We feel very strongly that we should plant seeds (some go overboard) but try not to hold all of us responsible for the actions of a few.


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 9, 2011)

boneheadbob said:


> Here is something you may find interesting. In the past 18 years I have been a construction sub contractor. I have dealt with hundreds of generals. Arabs, persians, jews, mormons, catholics, heathens and born againers.
> 
> By far the worse to deal with were born againers. See them in Church or Bible study, talk about the Lord on the job and then turn around and watch them pull all sorts of underhanded crap related to making money.
> 
> Point is Christians are just like everyone else. Having a relationship with Jesus does not make us better then others. We feel very strongly that we should plant seeds (some go overboard) but try not to hold all of us responsible for the actions of a few.


...very well said, and thanks for posting this.

I am catholic, and have worked with a range of believers. I agree that the born againers are... (add your own description here). I watched a lot of them tear down other people for their beliefs - mine included. One in particular still drank beer (and hid that). He commented about my pot smoking. I reminded him, kindly, that hops and weed are pretty close cousins. He laughed. So, I said "when you drink are you chemically altered?" he said "well sure!". I walked away from that conversation right there. He'd make fun of the catholic services - which he had never been to for experience or perspective. He'd make fun of nuns and so on. There are nuns in my family (relatives) and I am no where near as 'pleasant' as they are when confronted and he was crossing lines like mad. But, instead of trashing him physically or otherwise, I basically told him to 'Catholic my left nut' and moved on. If course, his reply would be something like "see, MY glory makes you walk away, it's the truth and you can't stand it".

I've said it before and I'll say it again... a lot of those people are in it for family money. And, a lot of them are truly great people too. I have no problems saying that. I just don't get the 'lesser believer' sht.


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## tyler.durden (Nov 9, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...very well said, and thanks for posting this.
> 
> I am catholic, and have worked with a range of believers. I agree that the born againers are... (add your own description here). I watched a lot of them tear down other people for their beliefs - mine included. One in particular still drank beer (and hid that). He commented about my pot smoking. I reminded him, kindly, that hops and weed are pretty close cousins. He laughed. So, I said "when you drink are you chemically altered?" he said "well sure!". I walked away from that conversation right there. He'd make fun of the catholic services - which he had never been to for experience or perspective. He'd make fun of nuns and so on. There are nuns in my family (relatives) and I am no where near as 'pleasant' as they are when confronted and he was crossing lines like mad. But, instead of trashing him physically or otherwise, I basically told him to 'Catholic my left nut' and moved on. If course, his reply would be something like "see, MY glory makes you walk away, it's the truth and you can't stand it".
> 
> I've said it before and I'll say it again... a lot of those people are in it for family money. And, a lot of them are truly great people too. I have no problems saying that. I just don't get the 'lesser believer' sht.


Hey, Eye. I was raised Catholic, too. It's okay to kiss a nun, but don't get into the Habit


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 9, 2011)

tyler.durden said:


> Hey, Eye. I was raised Catholic, too. It's okay to kiss a nun, but don't get into the Habit


...instant association 

[video=youtube;X7r5RYThiHM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7r5RYThiHM[/video]


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 11, 2011)

[video=youtube;dK3O6KYPmEw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK3O6KYPmEw[/video]

Great video


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## Zankera (Nov 16, 2011)

Hi

Just it is to be seems that about right considering during the christian Renaissance they did burn anything that went against there believes i.e. science,yet agree so so,


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 16, 2011)

Zankera said:


> Hi
> 
> Just it is to be seems that about right considering during the christian Renaissance they did burn anything that went against there believes i.e. science,yet agree so so,


 Ummm we kinda already knew that lol....


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## VILEPLUME (Nov 16, 2011)

I am a Christian and I think this is a great thread. Not because it bashes Christians but because I can learn from it.

And I agree, if Christians actually acted and lived how Jesus did, we would be at a much better time in history. Shit, I think I just judged...


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 16, 2011)

VILEPLUME said:


> I am a Christian and I think this is a great thread. Not because it bashes Christians but because I can learn from it.
> 
> And I agree, if Christians actually acted and lived how Jesus did, we would be at a much better time in history. Shit, I think I just judged...


How Jesus lived and what Christianity teaches are two different things I'm afraid. 

Someone post the Ghandi quote, you know the one I'm talking about..


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## VILEPLUME (Nov 16, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> How Jesus lived and what Christianity teaches are two different things I'm afraid.


I know what you mean, I always look at war. Say if America was a real "Christian Nation", the bible says that the 2nd most important commandment is to love others and if someone strikes us on the left cheek we turn the right. But instead we are like a sheep in wolves clothing and come at you with everything because...? Well, because America isn't a Christian nation. People are praised if they have lots of money, or are famous or any other materialistic thing that doesnt really matter in life.

"The single greatest cause of atheism in the world today is Christians, who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable." - Manning, Brennan


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 16, 2011)

VILEPLUME said:


> I know what you mean, I always look at war. Say if America was a real "Christian Nation", the bible says that the 2nd most important commandment is to love others and if someone strikes us on the left cheek we turn the right. But instead we are like a sheep in wolves clothing and come at you with everything because...? Well, because America isn't a Christian nation. People are praised if they have lots of money, or are famous or any other materialistic thing that doesnt really matter in life.
> 
> "The single greatest cause of atheism in the world today is Christians, who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable." - Manning, Brennan


...to some degree what is important is being as honest as you can with people. Kind of like - tell it like it is. All the hiding about this and that causes complexes and then groupings of complexes. If what is at the heart of a community is dishonesty, then that community mocks itself.

As always, I think it's the people and not the structure they choose to anchor to. Compassion and forgiveness can't be worn out in and of themselves, they are infinite. People / personas though, well...not so much 

Really though, a person's religious brand is not the person. No more than the mind is the person.


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## tyler.durden (Nov 16, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> How Jesus lived and what Christianity teaches are two different things I'm afraid.
> 
> Someone post the Ghandi quote, you know the one I'm talking about..


"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." -- *Mahatma Gandhi* 

Happy to oblige, Pad


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 16, 2011)

Who is ghandi to say all christians are so unlike than our christ? fuck ghandi.....

ok that was a little harsh....nah fuck him....maybe....


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## olylifter420 (Nov 16, 2011)

Yea, fuck gande!

Biased fuck, talking shit sounds like gande was an atheist


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## cannabineer (Nov 16, 2011)

Don't forget the historical context. Gandhi was talking about amd to the British power elite, whose actions in India in the 30s and 40s were indeed somewhat spotty. cn


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## olylifter420 (Nov 16, 2011)

He should have been more specific... 

Im just saying


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## cannabineer (Nov 16, 2011)

He probably was, but since the quote survived stripped of context, and since I am not enough of a dedicated historian to seek it out ... we'll never know ... 
cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 16, 2011)

The quote sounded pretty direct to me....


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## sso (Nov 16, 2011)

maybe he had met alot of christians..


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 16, 2011)

mmmmmm.....I made some pizza....


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 16, 2011)

sso said:


> maybe he had met alot of christians..


most likely, but he was still too general.


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## sso (Nov 16, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> most likely, but he was still too general.


perhaps, but whoever said ghandi was a perfectly good man?

(a dude that in old age commanded a young virgin to stay overnight in his room because he wanted to test himself (illegally young if i remember correctly (wasnt there at the time though)and the implication is that he was gonna fuck her if he failed.)

80 year old fart using his power to abuse a 14 year old girl. 

divine fellah


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## sso (Nov 16, 2011)

and he was perfectly fine with having slave labor around (the untouchables)


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## tyler.durden (Nov 16, 2011)

sso said:


> perhaps, but whoever said ghandi was a perfectly good man?
> 
> (a dude that in old age commanded a young virgin to stay overnight in his room because he wanted to test himself (illegally young if i remember correctly (wasnt there at the time though)and the implication is that he was gonna fuck her if he failed.)
> 
> ...


Plus, he was a MAJOR racist, you should read some of his outrageous quotes about black people. He didn't want Westerners to confuse Indians with blacks. Penn & Teller did a major segment about him on their Bullshit show, it was hilarious...


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 16, 2011)

sso said:


> perhaps, but whoever said ghandi was a perfectly good man?
> 
> (a dude that in old age commanded a young virgin to stay overnight in his room because he wanted to test himself (illegally young if i remember correctly (wasnt there at the time though)and the implication is that he was gonna fuck her if he failed.)
> 
> ...


This is why I said fuck him lol.

People make him out to be a god ha.


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## cannabineer (Nov 16, 2011)

Penn&Teller crack me up. 
"Our lawyers asvised us we can't call [such a person] a liar or a cheat. But we CAN call him a stupid fuck!"


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## sso (Nov 16, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> This is why I said fuck him lol.
> 
> People make him out to be a god ha.


well, i wouldnt say fuck him.

dude made a fucking brilliant revolution without shedding nary a drop of blood.

maybe the dude wouldave deserved a bit of spanking,BUT he was more a rolemodel than most by far..

and in many ways, a greater man than any here. (moi included)

doesnt mean he wasnt entirely devoid of fucktardness (who is? we are barely shaved monkeys)


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 16, 2011)

I think we are way more than shaved monkeys. That's like saying evolution changed nothing. When was the lay time you saw a monkey grow marijuana? Never, because they aren't as intelligent as us.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 16, 2011)

IMO, George Harrison was WAY better than ghandi.

Harrison wasn't some dick that tried to cover his flaws with dumbass quotes.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 16, 2011)

Of course that's just my opinion, . No offense to you sso.


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## sso (Nov 16, 2011)

im not offended, i dont idolize anyone.

(myself included)

...
its not really an insult calling us shaved apes  lol, well, bit, but ..

we havent really come That far.

chimps make war, chimps use tools, ...

ever seen how a chimp leader acts and behaves? (exactly like our politicians (...the chimps even go around kissing babies for pussyvotes)

we still have not risen above monkey politics and stupidity.

Till we embrace love and one another,

we´ll still be just a bunch of stupid monkeys with too much power.


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## cannabineer (Nov 16, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I think we are way more than shaved monkeys. That's like saying evolution changed nothing. When was the lay time you saw a monkey grow marijuana? Never, because they aren't as intelligent as us.


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## sso (Nov 16, 2011)

yes, maybe we are way more than shaved monkeys (..from a certain perspective)

but

we could be gods.


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## Heisenberg (Nov 17, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Who is ghandi to say all christians are so unlike than our christ? fuck ghandi.....
> 
> ok that was a little harsh....nah fuck him....maybe....


Here is the full quote,


> I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. The materialism of affluent Christian countries appears to contradict the claims of Jesus Christ that says it's not possible to worship both Mammon and God at the same time.


Mammon = wealth. If Christian communities followed Christs teachings they wouldn't amass so much wealth, in fact they should practically be poor homeless people. But it's doubtful Gandhi said this.



> As quoted by William Rees-Mogg in The Times [London] (4 April 2005) Gandhi here makes reference to a statement of Jesus: &#8220;No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." (Luke 16:13); also partly quoted by Bill Wilson *I have found no authoritative source for Ghandi saying this. The actual quote is attributed to Bara Dada*, "Jesus is ideal and wonderful, but you Christians -- you are not like him." Source - Jones, E. Stanley. The Christ of the Indian Road, New York: The Abingdon Press,1925.


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## sso (Nov 17, 2011)

so, if god is love, then basically jesus wanted us to worship love.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 17, 2011)

sso said:


> so, if god is love, then basically jesus wanted us to worship love.


Who said god is love?


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## sso (Nov 17, 2011)

anyone remember who said that?


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 17, 2011)

So if we take god being love literally, if someone loves me am I god? Or is someone goding me?


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## sso (Nov 17, 2011)

who said, god is in the heart?

the heart is nothing without love, yes?


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 17, 2011)

sso said:


> who said, god is in the heart?
> 
> the heart is nothing without love, yes?


The heart is a vital organ dude.
[video=youtube;oj1y4zHmyE8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj1y4zHmyE8[/video]....

If anything, "love" has to do more with the brain.... 

Do you believe in a greater power?


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## sso (Nov 17, 2011)

hmm, yes, you have not experienced love yet, but hey, you are young.

greater power?

meaning what?


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 17, 2011)

sso said:


> hmm, yes, you have not experienced love yet, but hey, you are young.
> 
> greater power?
> 
> meaning what?


I have experienced love dude, . I've had love that literally drove me crazy.... are you familiar with this song?...
[video=youtube;oGhKnpGBlZg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGhKnpGBlZg[/video]
It's an overpowering emotion that feels like it means so much more, yet science says it's literally in our heads.

I meant deity....Do you believe in a deity?


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## sso (Nov 17, 2011)

well, i thought i had my heart broken a few times and experienced love, but i never did and love is in the heart dude, like a huge fucking glow in the heart and big feeling.

but yes, the feeling that i thought was love, was powerful inofitself. (and a big mindbender )

but no, not even close.

but hey thats a good thing.

but yes i might be wrong, but ponder this line then "true love" and why it exists 

deity..

meaning what, define deity for me.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 17, 2011)

sso said:


> well, i thought i had my heart broken a few times and experienced love, but i never did and love is in the heart dude, like a huge fucking glow in the heart and big feeling.
> 
> but yes, the feeling that i thought was love, was powerful inofitself. (and a big mindbender )
> 
> ...


It's an emotion dude, I may be wrong to though .

A *deity*[1] is a recognized preternatural or supernatural immortal being, who may be thought of as holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, and respected by believers. - wiki.


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## sso (Nov 17, 2011)

yes, but what is emotion and why does it affect us so?

..well, i was more interested in your views on divinity but ok.

lets put it like this.

i have seen instant prayer miracles.

i have met god in a dream and spoken with him 

and ive seen some shit.

but

im not entirely sure if god is a construct of the mind same as the devil (or even if the devil is real lol)

but if he exists, he is the loneliest fucker in the world.

loving everything but nothing truly loves him back.

but no, i dont believe in deities.

nor worship anything.

and i have no greater respect or regard for such than anything.

everything is holy or nothing is, thats my opinion.

and if there is a god, then we are his children and gods too.

if god is in the heart, then i am god

and so are you

and your petdog

rendering such terms, meaningless and pointless (similar disgusting shit as having kings and peasants)


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 17, 2011)

sso said:


> yes, but what is emotion and why does it affect us so?
> 
> ..well, i was more interested in your views on divinity but ok.
> 
> ...


 I'm empirical-agnostic, that's all I can really say about my beliefs.

Honestly, I can get in-depth about the details of how our bodies feel emotions, but it would take way too long.

But I don't know why we even need emotions....


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## sso (Nov 17, 2011)

hehe i had to go look that up, yes, i kinda like that "empirical agnostic humanists" (though it only really gets good with the humanist part)

but yes.

if god exists and wants to know us, is it not his/hers/its to do so? as the older more experienced, wiser being? (its not like we can even see the bugger  lol)

is it important, till then?

i was talking more on how emotions affect us and why they exist, but ok, yes.

why do we need emotions?

they do hurt.

but i dont think we could do anything without them.

hunger is an emotion, desire to create is an emotion..

horny is an emotion.. (desire to procreate (or to simply have pleasure)



i think without emotions, we would not even know how much it sucked.

curiosity is an emotion after all.

so is friendship and desire to communicate.

maybe without emotion we would still be single cell organism (and maybe even they have feelings )

they say all is one, after all


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## sso (Nov 17, 2011)

but if you really wanted to know about god, maybe you should try talking to god.

and maybe if you are really really quiet, you can hear god. 

they say god´s voice is the smallest of the small.


or you can try meditating on the idea of infinite light, everywhere yet invisible.

see what happens.


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## sso (Nov 17, 2011)

to be exact, someone said, that god is the smallest (most quiet) voice in your own head. (and as someone said, god is everyone, so why should it not speak in your voice? in your head?)

forget who though...


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 17, 2011)

I used to believe god would speak to us through DMT....IDK.

I mean it happens upon life, REM sleep, and death and theres many claims of people seeing and speaking to god during REM sleep and near-death experiences.

Also, during REM sleep I have spoken with some pretty crazy beings and have seen small things in the future that actually happened (for example, one night I had a dream that My bike would get stolen, well the next night it happened).


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## sso (Nov 17, 2011)

DMT occurs naturally in the brain, but yes, nature is helpful. 

yes, apparantly people speak to god and deities alot  (though interestingly people meet what they expect to meet, so it makes me wonder about god being a construct of the mind, but then again, there might be many gods  (some say, there are many gods, one maingod and then there is the "nothing yet everything" from which everything was born)

though frankly i think there might be infinite levels of "gods" (no end to enlightenment and no end to anything (except the body, for now..) (though the body is just a construct, nothing actually perishes as is well known today)

but yeah, ive also had dreams of the future that came true.

i can also do this in waking life, to a degree..

you can also, 

for a simple start, try throwing a coin on the floor, without looking what it is (then think what it is, and i betcha the first thing that comes into mind, will be the side showing)

poorly worded perhaps but im bit tired and im sure you know what i mean.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 17, 2011)

Ehh, not really worded badly, .

I guess we will find out when we die....

I just hope that if there is a god, he won't punish us for not following the directions that he himself didn't make clear.


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## sso (Nov 17, 2011)

well, he would be a bit of an retard then, wouldnt he? (and that would be bit of an understatement)


hard to imagine a total retard making all this?

"ok you lot, here are the rules "mumble, mumble" 

humans

"but why are you whispering in only that guys ear?!"

god

"yes, and anyone not paying attention or following these rules to the letter, will be punished, any questions?"

humans

"..."

god

"ok, jollygood now fuckoff! "

..

but yes, live and live life , lol, live and be love, be love and beloved.

what greater heights might we shoot for?

and if we reach those heights, maybe god is there waiting for us..

they say you could look for god now, 

but why sit and freeze your nuts off alone on a mountaintop when you could be having sex, or an icecream, or having an icecream while having sex? 

i think being nice is more important than belief in god, much more important..

and the only sucky thing about death is goodbye.

but why waste time on thoughts of death? (lol when we have icecream and sex? )

id rather have a walk in the park or play a good game, than think of god and death..

more rewarding and productive really..

though i cant say, that perhaps my time spent on such things was a complete waste of time, i think there might have been better things to do with my time..


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 17, 2011)

sso said:


> but yes, live and live life , lol, live and be love, be love and beloved.
> 
> what greater heights might we shoot for?
> 
> ...


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 17, 2011)

mmmm icecream and sex....

that's another thing, Why would a god give us such an irresistable sex urge if we aren't supposed to use it (according to christianity)?


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## sso (Nov 17, 2011)

i think this attack against sexuality was born of repressed homosexuals within the catholic church.

(though it also had bit to do with nutsos in the victorian era..)

but yes, its immensely stupid.

and i would disregard it as a hilarious curio of the soon to be past.


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## sso (Nov 17, 2011)

though, i wonder, if the period when we started to feel ashamed of our bodies and hide them, was the true fall of man.

(and there is an interesting bit in the bible, where man and woman hide from god, ashamed of their nakedness.(having bitten of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil)

but then again, where does the shame for our naked bodies come from?

its totally irrational.

(it can be practical though, from the viewpoint of rape and hiding stuff from uncontrollably horny people perhaps..)

but, still i wonder.

what do you think heph (or anyone)

where does shame for our bodies come from?

why is my peepee shameful?  (im actually quite comfortable being naked around people that dont mind, its a bit of a bother if they dont)


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 17, 2011)

oh shit, I was thinking about this earlier today. The only possibilities I came up with for wearing clothes were style and weather conditions. If it's cold we need warmth since we don't have fur or thick skin. And I don't really think the style one really makes sense.


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## sso (Nov 17, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> oh shit, I was thinking about this earlier today. The only possibilities I came up with for wearing clothes were style and weather conditions. If it's cold we need warmth since we don't have fur or thick skin. And I don't really think the style one really makes sense.


yes.

being ashamed of our bodies and sex, makes no sense. (how can be we ashamed of the very process that creates us and continues us? (plus its really pleasureable )


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## silasraven (Nov 17, 2011)

HOW ABOUT A LIST THAT EVEYTHING GOD HAS DONE RIGHT.
1. got me to realize reality.
2. gave me a wondeful hone to stay in
3. gave me the tools to help organize my place
4. stalled peoples coming over/ help so i could see a bigger better picture
5. gave me ways to save on my electric bill will still working on plant projects
6. supplied me to the point where im covered for a good planting
7. gave me the tongue to speak to people well.


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## VILEPLUME (Nov 17, 2011)

Also if you are an Atheist and you are debating a Christian, just tell them this passage.

&#8220;You have heard that it was said, &#8216;Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.&#8217; But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5:43-48


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## sso (Nov 17, 2011)

silasraven said:


> HOW ABOUT A LIST THAT EVEYTHING GOD HAS DONE RIGHT.
> 1. got me to realize reality.
> 2. gave me a wondeful hone to stay in
> 3. gave me the tools to help organize my place
> ...



i dont have any problem with that.

i just dont like talk of hell and fearing god. (love what you want)

its of course entirely selfish, (happy people make me happy and the idea of hell and a punisher god never made anyone happy)


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## sso (Nov 17, 2011)

VILEPLUME said:


> Also if you are an Atheist and you are debating a Christian, just tell them this passage.
> 
> &#8220;You have heard that it was said, &#8216;Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.&#8217; But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5:43-48



thats both utterly stupid and utterly right.

the right part?

love works better against your enemies than hate (making friends out of them is much better than having to dig a grave for them)

the utterly stupid part?

why should anyone reward you for doing good?

ill tell you what the reward is in loving those who love you (the bliss of giving love and receiving it)

and..

on the clever part, the reward in loving your enemies, is maybe gaining a friend.

but the utmost best bonus, is that you dont become a hatefilled creature yourself (nothing makes people uglier faster than hate)


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## Harrekin (Nov 17, 2011)

silasraven said:


> HOW ABOUT A LIST THAT EVEYTHING GOD HAS DONE RIGHT.
> 1. got me to realize reality.
> 2. gave me a wondeful hone to stay in
> 3. gave me the tools to help organize my place
> ...


 Dude I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit...you achieved those things, God didn't do it for you. Free will makes intervention by a deity impossible.


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## tip top toker (Nov 17, 2011)

Fucking carol singers!


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## silasraven (Nov 17, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Dude I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit...you achieved those things, God didn't do it for you. Free will makes intervention by a deity impossible.


so the explanation is needed. heres goes ill go on a ride and happen to be thinking of something bad and start of to get myself out of the mood. when im in a totla bad mood i look around and find nothing to stick in my bag but when i am happy and full of hope which god gave me i recieve an abundance ive done this many times and every happy moment god gives me even more.


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## tip top toker (Nov 17, 2011)

silasraven said:


> so the explanation is needed. heres goes ill go on a ride and happen to be thinking of something bad and start of to get myself out of the mood. when im in a totla bad mood i look around and find nothing to stick in my bag but when i am happy and full of hope which god gave me i recieve an abundance ive done this many times and every happy moment god gives me even more.


This is the point that always get;'s me. I give myself hope and receive an abundance. How useless must someone's life be to require God to give the hope hope needed? So either that hope is not coming from god, but just yourself, and you're just making fase attributes, or well, i'm a better human being


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## olylifter420 (Nov 17, 2011)

i remember when i had some mad love issues, man this woman was married and she wanted me so bad... i ended up falling for her and she ended up getting divorced and ended up dumping me for a friend, then i found out i was in love with a whore... too bad for me





Hepheastus420 said:


> I have experienced love dude, . I've had love that literally drove me crazy.... are you familiar with this song?...
> [video=youtube;oGhKnpGBlZg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGhKnpGBlZg[/video]
> It's an overpowering emotion that feels like it means so much more, yet science says it's literally in our heads.
> 
> I meant deity....Do you believe in a deity?


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## tyler.durden (Nov 17, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> i remember when i had some mad love issues, man this woman was married and she wanted me so bad... i ended up falling for her and she ended up getting divorced and ended up dumping me for a friend, then i found out i was in love with a whore... too bad for me


Shit, Oly. I've been there more than once. Fucking sucks...


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## olylifter420 (Nov 17, 2011)

the funny part of it was that she would waltz around saying that she would never be a whore or ever cheat on her husband... she taught aerobics and i was a personal trainer at a local gym... she was extremely hot and she could fuck like crazy,, but i guess it was just some mad crazy LUST i was experiencing...

it was just a really stressful, but at the same time sexually pleasing time in my life... oh well... live and learn





tyler.durden said:


> Shit, Oly. I've been there more than once. Fucking sucks...


----------



## tyler.durden (Nov 17, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> the funny part of it was that she would waltz around saying that she would never be a whore or ever cheat on her husband... she taught aerobics and i was a personal trainer at a local gym... she was extremely hot and she could fuck like crazy,, but i guess it was just some mad crazy LUST i was experiencing...
> 
> it was just a really stressful, but at the same time sexually pleasing time in my life... oh well... live and learn


Yep. That caliber of pussy doesn't come cheap or easy. We can't choose who we fall in love with, or life would be much easier. There was a hilarious line I heard lately (I think it was on Community, my favorite show), 'Hot comes with crazy 100% of the time'...


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## olylifter420 (Nov 17, 2011)

nah, my current gf is very hot and she aint crazy, lol!! i think some girls have it and some dont... i have learned a ton from that experience and to my advantage... 

stupid bitch would alway say that she hated guys that dealt drugs and smoked weed, that pussy was worth hiding the fact i smoked ganja, lol,,, no she is with a guy who is being investigated by the fbi and who is highly involved in the local mafia,,, lol that what she gets




tyler.durden said:


> Yep. That caliber of pussy doesn't come cheap or easy. We can't choose who we fall in love with, or life would be much easier. There was a hilarious line I heard lately (I think it was on Community, my favorite show), 'Hot comes with crazy 100% of the time'...


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## guy incognito (Nov 17, 2011)

silasraven said:


> so the explanation is needed. heres goes ill go on a ride and happen to be thinking of something bad and start of to get myself out of the mood. when im in a totla bad mood i look around and find nothing to stick in my bag but when i am happy and full of hope which god gave me i recieve an abundance ive done this many times and every happy moment god gives me even more.


Maybe you are the one providing yourself with hope and happiness and are able to overcome the bad thoughts god is beaming into your head.


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## mindphuk (Nov 17, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> nah, my current gf is very hot


Pics or it didn't happen.


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## tyler.durden (Nov 17, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> Pics or it didn't happen.


Yeah, Oly! Preferably nude


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## olylifter420 (Nov 17, 2011)

Lol, yea, im gonna wait till she gets home n take some pics, lol!

i got an old thing with dat whore on a memory card from 1 of my cameras. Id postit, but i dont know who is who on here


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 17, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> i got an old thing with dat whore on a memory card from 1 of my cameras. Id postit


I'll post a pic if you will haha


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## marijuananation (Nov 17, 2011)

here is something that christianity has made better !
http://www.facebook.com/EliciaModel


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## mindphuk (Nov 17, 2011)

marijuananation said:


> here is something that christianity has made better !
> http://www.facebook.com/EliciaModel


 Implied homosexuality, "Runner up for Miss Taboo Vancouver, January 2011" 
Yep, real Xian....


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 18, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=6p5jnqEyUs4


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 18, 2011)

I bet ollys bum is super red raw


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## olylifter420 (Nov 18, 2011)

ah, the child wants to come out and play, how nice... did you finish your homework boyl?

and what is a bum? im not a bum you loser ass wannabe has been boxe. see you dont even deserve the title "boxer" cause you give it a bad name... loser, and not loser as in life, but loser in boxi, see, i cant even use it in the same sentence when i reference you cause it is a disgrace to all other great athletes... fucking loser


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 18, 2011)

hi olly , my old chum , hows life ? still belief with no evidence ? sucks dont it lol ? never mind , maybe your god will send one of his angels down to earth for you and mAKE EVERYTHING BETTER LMAO .


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## olylifter420 (Nov 18, 2011)

Deflection. Nice, but me believing has nothing to do with you sucking ass in boxi.

How much do you suck? Bum!


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 18, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> hi olly , my old chum , hows life ? still belief with no evidence ? sucks dont it lol ? never mind , maybe your god will send one of his angels down to earth for you and mAKE EVERYTHING BETTER LMAO .


What do you expect to accomplish with stuff like this? Every educated atheist knows it serves as another method of division, you could choose to take it and make it into something positive but instead you made it negative when it doesn't have to be. Did you expect oly's response to be anything other than hostile? Trolling only gets you so far, you have to learn how to frame your posts in a little more effective manner. Sam Harris compared to Richard Dawkins. Watch their deliveries, Dawkins gets non stop arguments even though he explains everything in much more detail than Harris, it's that Harris' execution is much more refined and he frames his arguments in a way that makes it difficult for opponents to figure out.

You have to be respectful and remove all emotion from the response. We have to actively work on this every time we engage with believers.


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## tyler.durden (Nov 18, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> What do you expect to accomplish with stuff like this? Every educated atheist knows it serves as another method of division, you could choose to take it and make it into something positive but instead you made it negative when it doesn't have to be. Did you expect oly's response to be anything other than hostile? Trolling only gets you so far, you have to learn how to frame your posts in a little more effective manner. Sam Harris compared to Richard Dawkins. Watch their deliveries, Dawkins gets non stop arguments even though he explains everything in much more detail than Harris, it's that Harris' execution is much more refined and he frames his arguments in a way that makes it difficult for opponents to figure out.
> 
> You have to be respectful and remove all emotion from the response. We have to actively work on this every time we engage with believers.


Fucking great post, Pad! I'd +rep you again, but RIU feels I'm too stingy with it to do so...


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## olylifter420 (Nov 18, 2011)

i dont know if you are saying that i suck at debate but,Very well said pad! This guy is a fool(tsh). He doesnt deserve any respect and i dont or ever will respect him or whatever that wannabe has been loser has to say. 

And i know to the rest i may seem hostile here on tsh threads, but i aint like that anywhere else




Padawanbater2 said:


> What do you expect to accomplish with stuff like this? Every educated atheist knows it serves as another method of division, you could choose to take it and make it into something positive but instead you made it negative when it doesn't have to be. Did you expect oly's response to be anything other than hostile? Trolling only gets you so far, you have to learn how to frame your posts in a little more effective manner. Sam Harris compared to Richard Dawkins. Watch their deliveries, Dawkins gets non stop arguments even though he explains everything in much more detail than Harris, it's that Harris' execution is much more refined and he frames his arguments in a way that makes it difficult for opponents to figure out.
> 
> You have to be respectful and remove all emotion from the response. We have to actively work on this every time we engage with believers.


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## mindphuk (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes, this is getting old. Time to kiss and makeup.


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## sso (Nov 19, 2011)

[video=youtube;KIQXsf2Cv4Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KIQXsf2Cv4Q[/video]

yes, wow, he´s pretty damn good.


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 19, 2011)

sso said:


> [video=youtube;KIQXsf2Cv4Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KIQXsf2Cv4Q[/video]
> 
> yes, wow, he´s pretty damn good.



This part is almost even better!

[video=youtube;3206poU7V1c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3206poU7V1c[/video]


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## Pat the stoner (Nov 19, 2011)

Sam Harris is very to the point


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## silasraven (Nov 21, 2011)

putting cockiness before compassion


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 21, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> hi olly , my old chum , hows life ? still belief with no evidence ? sucks dont it lol ? never mind , maybe your god will send one of his angels down to earth for you and mAKE EVERYTHING BETTER LMAO .


Is your point to persuade oly to drop his faith? Well why would he want to listen to someone that gives out no respect? If you want him to actually listen, you must make good respectable points. 


Great post BTW pad.


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## olylifter420 (Nov 21, 2011)

Nothing is being dropped here.. And that jackass tsh can suck a donkey dong!

My mind is not weak like tsh's boxi skills, lol


I will never listen to the shit that comes out of that douches mouth. Nothing productive and all retard talk!







Hepheastus420 said:


> Is your point to persuade oly to drop his faith? Well why would he want to listen to someone that gives out no respect? If you want him to actually listen, you must make good respectable points.
> 
> 
> Great post BTW pad.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 21, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> Nothing is being dropped here.. And that jackass tsh can suck a donkey dong!
> 
> My mind is not weak like tsh's boxi skills, lol
> 
> ...


 lol, I understand your point oly.
i'm just saying that generally, people that want to be heard should show respect. TSH lacks respect, so he doesn't deserve for you to listen to him.


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## The Chemist Brothers (Nov 24, 2011)

silasraven said:


> putting cockiness before compassion


compassion is what drives atheists to enlighten others, if you knew the way your psyche had been structured as a child and the world you believed in was a lie, you'd feel compelled to help those still stuck in the delusion right?


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## olylifter420 (Nov 24, 2011)

Why do you think its wrong to tell people what to believe in being a believer, yet you atheists are "compelled" to tell believers what not to believe?

You are funny man





The Chemist Brothers said:


> compassion is what drives atheists to enlighten others, if you knew the way your psyche had been structured as a child and the world you believed in was a lie, you'd feel compelled to help those still stuck in the delusion right?


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 24, 2011)

Most atheists are skeptical minded, critical thinking people. It's not that atheists are just trying to get people to stop believing in god, it's about not falling victim to superstitious thinking and group think. Religion just happens to fall into the bin with everything else supernatural. If it was testable or verifiable, it wouldn't be supernatural it'd be natural.


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## olylifter420 (Nov 24, 2011)

And i guess most believers are not critical thinkers and are extremely stupid... I just dont see how any atheist is sincere or considerate, most just feel superior in their way of thinking logically and you all can say otherwise, but i have seen enough of that hypocricy!


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 24, 2011)

The Chemist Brothers said:


> compassion is what drives atheists to enlighten others, *if you knew the way your psyche had been structured as a child and the world you believed in was a lie*, you'd feel compelled to help those still stuck in the delusion right?


Good post TCB



olylifter420 said:


> And i guess most believers are not critical thinkers and are extremely stupid... I just dont see how any atheist is sincere or considerate, most just feel superior in their way of thinking logically and you all can say otherwise, but i have seen enough of that hypocricy!


That isn't the case at all. Most believers simply fall victim to things they are unaware of, mechanisms inside the brain that affect the choices and decisions we all make based on the things we've learned as individuals. You must realize these things exist, you must acknowledge how they affect a person. Simply KNOWING about them provide you with more ammunition to combat them than I or anyone else ever could. It's something you must do for yourself. 

Is it hypocrisy when you wake up in the morning with a stomach ache and you go the doctor and he tells you you have appendicitis?


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 24, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> And i guess most believers are not critical thinkers and are extremely stupid... I just dont see how any atheist is sincere or considerate, most just feel superior in their way of thinking logically and you all can say otherwise, but i have seen enough of that hypocricy!


Not everyone that has a masters degree thinks they're better than people who don't. Some do, but not all; it's the same with people who have taken the time to develop critical thinking skills. 

People who believe in god can still be extremely intelligent, there's been tons of intelligent theists all through history. They just have to be happy with only having faith to explain their theistic views, and lots of them are! It's the theists that try to fight with scientists and the government about things we can actually observe and test, that have skewed views on reality *because* of their religious practices that are the problem.


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## mindphuk (Nov 24, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> And i guess most believers are not critical thinkers and are extremely stupid...


 Come on man! We've been over this before. Stop making these types of strawman arguments. Not having good critical thinking skills does not make a person stupid. Critical thinking is a skill that must be learned even though like other skills, it might come more naturally for some individuals. Would you call someone that can't play the piano stupid? If you are the type of person that is generally skeptical, you probably are going to have some skepticism/questions about god and the religion that you most closely associate with. If you don't question god and religion, then you either aren't a skeptical thinker or you are able to compartmentalize your theistic views from the rest of your beliefs. I know a lot of people that fall under this last category. 

You do very well with your debating when you drop the attacks and indignant attitude labeling us hypocrites and arrogant. You and I have had some really great discussions (IMO) and it only worked because we both respected each other's POV and refrained from insults and straw men.


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## tharoomman (Nov 24, 2011)

Man, I love the title to this thread and the fact it has 5 stars. I also think Christianity has caused A WHOLE LOT of bad things. Like fucking horrible things. Not that I place that blame on today's Christians.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 24, 2011)

tharoomman said:


> Man, I love the title to this thread and the fact it has 5 stars. I also think Christianity has caused A WHOLE LOT of bad things. Like fucking horrible things. Not that I place that blame on today's Christians.


A distinction today's atheists don't get a lot of credit for.


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## olylifter420 (Nov 24, 2011)

> That isn't the case at all. Most believers simply fall victim to things they are unaware of, mechanisms inside the brain that affect the choices and decisions we all make based on the things we've learned as individuals. You must realize these things exist, you must acknowledge how they affect a person. Simply KNOWING about them provide you with more ammunition to combat them than I or anyone else ever could. It's something you must do for yourself.
> 
> Is it hypocrisy when you wake up in the morning with a stomach ache and you go the doctor and he tells you you have appendicitis?





> People who believe in god can still be extremely intelligent, there's been tons of intelligent theists all through history. They just have to be happy with only having faith to explain their theistic views, and lots of them are! It's the theists that try to fight with scientists and the government about things we can actually observe and test, that have skewed views on reality because of their religious practices that are the problem.





> Come on man! We've been over this before. Stop making these types of strawman arguments. Not having good critical thinking skills does not make a person stupid. Critical thinking is a skill that must be learned even though like other skills, it might come more naturally for some individuals. Would you call someone that can't play the piano stupid? If you are the type of person that is generally skeptical, you probably are going to have some skepticism/questions about god and the religion that you most closely associate with. If you don't question god and religion, then you either aren't a skeptical thinker or you are able to compartmentalize your theistic views from the rest of your beliefs. I know a lot of people that fall under this last category.


I am sorry for being a bit rude fellas, it is just that sometimes the message i get from some posts seems as if though believers will never be considered to have valid points in anything, hence the "and i guess most believers are not critical thinkers and are extremely stupid" remark... I just think I share many of the same interests as you all with the only difference being that i am a believer. I try to contribute, but it seems my efforts are futile to say the least.




> You do very well with your debating when you drop the attacks and indignant attitude labeling us hypocrites and arrogant. You and I have had some really great discussions (IMO) and it only worked because we both respected each other's POV and refrained from insults and straw men.


Again, i am sorry for being rude. I too believe that i have learned plenty from our discussions and i really appreciate em...


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

Im sorry olly but how can you expect a sane human to listen to someone who believes in something without evidence , would you take seriousley a man who came over to you and said he speaks to little fairys in his back yard ? fairys have as much credability as your god . im sorry but i cant listen to anything a believer says as i think they are mentally retarded .


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> Im sorry olly but how can you expect a sane human to listen to someone who believes in something without evidence , would you take seriousley a man who came over to you and said he speaks to little fairys in his back yard ? fairys have as much credability as your god . im sorry but i cant listen to anything a believer says as i think they are mentally retarded .


where is your proof believers are mentally retarded? I guess it's cool if you can believe we are mentally retarded without proof.


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## sso (Nov 25, 2011)

...christianity has the whole "believe this shit or burn forever" going for it.
which is really a turn off for most people not raised in it.
and the "everything sucks right now, but if you believe and have faith in the lord, you will have it so much better after im dead"
which is usually followed with "ok now give us a donation" (so we can have it so much better right now)

sure.

believing in a god that loves ya and takes care of ya, great.
but once you implicate the bible in that, you just have much more questions than answers.
plus, you cant call yourself a christian.

not really.

have you given up all your possessions?
if not, you are just a fan, not a follower of christ.
see thats the problem.

most people can not read the bible, without skipping parts.
saying stuff like "thats not for people today, thats for people then" ("the rules change people, deal with it")
to everyone thats considered intelligent today.
the bible is mostly hogwash with a few good points.

no different from any other silly pagan religion (after all, christianity was combined with many pagan traditions to lure in more people)

its all that stuff, ignoring the obvious and all that talk of fearing the lord. ("behave or ill fucking burn ya!")
"here´s free will, now do what i want or ill burn ya"
of course you can interpret the bible in so many ways and thats the problem.
burning and torturing people of other faiths, was totally acceptable to the religious of that time (and reading that same bible as you do)

because they were saving them from an eternity of torture.

see..

either you say, the bible is a mixmatch of totally different things and ideas, most of which born of some delusional primitive fuck´s mind.
maybe there was a jesus, but mostly we can not be sure of anything about him or what he said.
maybe there is a god, but we sure arent close to proving that (making god irrelevant)


either that, or god is insane and we are fucked. (if you take the bible literally)
you can not come to any other conclusion, reading the bible with no reverance for it.
that either its god is a vicious lunatic dictator and we should join the devil in rebellion if its true.

or its just a mix of some ideas about god and some stories that might be true (they were written long after the fact and mostly by nonwitnesses)

along with some stupid stories of delusional people 
so, yes, anyone claiming to believe in the bible and be a follower of any religion in particular, looks and probably is a fool (somewhat anyway)
sure , might be a god, but im damn positive that all of the religions are mostly wrong about it. 
sure there might be the spiritual, but its obvious that the religions havent got much to do with it for the most part.

too restrictive and full of stupid limiting ideas.


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## Heisenberg (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> Im sorry olly but how can you expect a sane human to listen to someone who believes in something without evidence , would you take seriousley a man who came over to you and said he speaks to little fairys in his back yard ? fairys have as much credability as your god . im sorry but i cant listen to anything a believer says as i think they are mentally retarded .


While I agree that an evidence based approach to the truth is the only one that lends confidence, answers come from investigation and logically consistent evaluation, not from blanket exclusion. We can reject conclusions and assertions based on them being flawed, not following a sound method or not being thorough, but we cannot reject them based solely on the claim. If someone says they have fairies in their back yard, and you automatically decide they are retarded, you exclude your chances of ever seeing fairies, as slim as they may be. It's imperative to remember that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, that anything which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, but only a fool decides there is no evidence without first investigating. The proper thing to do, if you are motivated enough to comment an opinion, is examine what's being said and refute it. If you simply decide that everyone who believes something different from you has mental problems and doesn't deserve to be listened to, then you only end up describing a reflection of yourself. Presuming that there is no evidence, that evidence doesn't matter, or refusing to listen to evidence, is the very mistake most religious people make; a closed mind is a closed mind no matter which side of the debate it falls.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> where is your proof believers are mentally retarded? I guess it's cool if you can believe we are mentally retarded without proof.


good morning heapatitus , my proof is that they believe in something without evidence , the same as id say someone who talks to fairys at the bottom of there yard is mental , i say someone who believes in a higher being without evidence is mental .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> While I agree that an evidence based approach to the truth is the only one that lends confidence, answers come from investigation and logically consistent evaluation, not from blanket exclusion. We can reject conclusions and assertions based on them being flawed, not following a sound method or not being thorough, but we cannot reject them based solely on the claim. If someone says they have fairies in their back yard, and you automatically decide they are retarded, you exclude your chances of ever seeing fairies, as slim as they may be. It's imperative to remember that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, that anything which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, but only a fool decides there is no evidence without first investigating. The proper thing to do, if you are motivated enough to comment an opinion, is examine what's being said and refute it. If you simply decide that everyone who believes something different from you has mental problems and doesn't deserve to be listened to, then you only end up describing a reflection of yourself. Presuming that there is no evidence, that evidence doesn't matter, or refusing to listen to evidence, is the very mistake most religious people make; a closed mind is a closed mind no matter which side of the debate it falls.


yeah anyway someone who believes in something that they can not prove exists is mental in my book .and to be honest olly has never come up with one scrap of evidence his god exists therefore i consider him mentally retarded or at least mentally challenged .


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> good morning heapatitus , my proof is that they believe in something without evidence , the same as id say someone who talks to fairys at the bottom of there yard is mental , i say someone who believes in a higher being without evidence is mental .


I understand you BELIEVE this, but where's your evidence?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> Ahem,... Cough, cough, fuck you, coug, cough
> 
> 
> You mum is a whore who gave birth to a piece of shit, wait, she too damn fat to know what hole it came from, eventually that piece of shit evloved eyes and somehow became you...
> ...


 typical disgusting hate filled ,violent slurr by a so called christian lol


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> typical disgusting hate filled ,violent slurr by a so called christian lol


I guess I missed the part where oly said he was perfect.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I understand you BELIEVE this, but where's your evidence?


 my evidence, is that you have made a claim , but have no evidence to back it up , so as things stand the evidence im using to justify my thinking ( that the god you claim exists does not exist ) is that you have failed to back up your claim without any evidence .i could claim black people are aliens , but without any evidence backing my claim up you would say that that is not true , because you have not seen any evidence supporting this claim , DO YOU GET IT YET SUNSHINE ?


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> my evidence, is that you have made a claim , but have no evidence to back it up , so as things stand the evidence im using to justify my thinking ( that the god you claim exists does not exist ) is that you have failed to back up your claim without any evidence .i could claim black people are aliens , but without any evidence backing my claim up you would say that that is not true , because you have not seen any evidence supporting this claim , DO YOU GET IT YET SUNSHINE ?


Ahhh I'm sunshine? that's nice lol.

You claimed that believers are mentally retarded....where's your evidence?

Are you saying that if someone makes a falseclaim, they are mentally retarded?


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## Heisenberg (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yeah anyway someone who believes in something that they can not prove exists is mental in my book .and to be honest olly has never come up with one scrap of evidence his god exists therefore i consider him mentally retarded or at least mentally challenged .


You depend on him not having evidence to justify your childish attacks without showing the slightest interest in any evidence that might be there. That amounts to posturing. Being mental 'in your book' counts for nothing. The book which defines mental conditions is called the DSM, and it doesn't list belief in god as a disorder. Mental disorders manifest themselves in multiple ways, not in just one specific isolated area. When you state that believers are retards and you have no distinction other than 'your book', you are making claims based on nothing but personal credulity, the very thing you are upset with believers for doing. Your real motivation seems to be entrapment.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

hepheastus420 said:


> ahhh i'm sunshine? That's nice lol.
> 
> You claimed that believers are mentally retarded....where's your evidence?
> 
> Are you saying that if someone makes a falseclaim, they are mentally retarded?


well, yes that is what im saying , if someone approached you in the street and said they just got teleported here from another planet , you would say wow show me that your not bullshitting , when that person failed to show you , then you would presume that guy was retarded yes ? Or at least delusional ?


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## olylifter420 (Nov 25, 2011)

Tsh, you are like the "show me the car fax" commercials!!


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

LOl heinz ive argued with this retard for months now ,there is no evidence there , hes got no evidence to back up his belief in his god , ive been over n over everything you could ever go over about religion and belief , faith and everything else , im sorry but i think the guy is halucinating or mentaly retarded , that is the only conclusion i can come up with .
im glad you have the time n patience to stroke ollys balls but i dont .


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> LOl heinz ive argued with this retard for months now , hes got no evidence to back up his belief in his god , ive been over n over everything you could ever go over about religion and belief , faith and everything else , im sorry but i think the guy is halucinating or mentaly retarded , that is the only conclusion i can come up with .


That's fine. But back yourself up.... or do you want to be like us?


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## Heisenberg (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> LOl heinz ive argued with this retard for months now ,there is no evidence there , hes got no evidence to back up his belief in his god , ive been over n over everything you could ever go over about religion and belief , faith and everything else , im sorry but i think the guy is halucinating or mentaly retarded , that is the only conclusion i can come up with .
> im glad you have the time n patience to stroke ollys balls but i dont .


Your use of phrases like 'stroking ollys balls' is an great example of how your are more interested in trivializing and dismissing opposition rather than refuting it. I have certainly busted oly's balls far more often than I've stroked them. I was responding to this statement--> *im sorry but i cant listen to anything a believer says as i think they are mentally retarded*. Which is a blanket statement, But lets talk about oly. If you have exhausted all efforts to refute oly and decided he is mentally retarded, then why are you here goading him into a fight? I've seen oly respond to reasoning and change his position at times (however slightly) which, if you have tried for months, to me suggests a problem with your communication methods rather than an indication of his mental state. I agree with pretty much all of your conclusions about god, just not with the sense of entitlement that you seem to think you deserve to insult and attack without provocation. I attack a persons premise, their rationale, and their conduct, but I never discount their value as a human being. I never trick someone into saying something stupid simply for the pleasure of pointing it out. (and neither has Hitchens) You poked oly with a stick and then criticized him for getting mad about it.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

lol hepatitus give it up sunshine , ive described how ive come to my conclusion , now its time for you to come up with why you choose to believe in your fairy bearded man floating in the sky < sniggers ) >


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lol hepatitus give it up sunshine , ive described how ive come to my conclusion , now its time for you to come up with why you choose to believe in your fairy bearded man floating in the sky < sniggers ) >


Why is it time for me to do that?


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## Heisenberg (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lol hepatitus give it up sunshine , ive described how ive come to my conclusion , now its time for you to come up with why you choose to believe in your fairy bearded man floating in the sky < sniggers ) >


Your explination of how you came to this conclusion is an argument from personal ignorance.



> that is the only conclusion i can come up with


This is not a justification you would accept from a believer about God.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Your use of phrases like 'stroking ollys balls' is an great example of how your are more interested in trivializing and dismissing opposition rather than refuting it. I was responding to this statement--> *im sorry but i cant listen to anything a believer says as i think they are mentally retarded*. Which is a blanket statement, But lets talk about oly. If you have exhausted all efforts to refute oly and decided he is mentally retarded, then why are you here goading him into a fight? I've seen oly respond to reasoning and change his position at times (however slightly) which, if you have tried for months, to me suggests a problem with your communication methods rather than an indication of his mental state. I agree with pretty much all of your conclusions about god, just not with the sense of entitlement that you seem to think you deserve to insult and attack without provocation. I attack a persons premise, their rationale, and their conduct, but I never discount their value as a human being. I never trick someone into saying something stupid simply for the pleasure of pointing it out. You poked oly with a stick and then criticized him for getting mad about it.


 i find it appealing to argue with people who are flawed .it gives me great pleasure destroying belief , as i know what harm belief in religion does to the world .
yes i have given up on'refuting' things deeply with people on here , as they put there fingers in there ears and go 'blah blah blah , as i said before you might have the time to try n teach olly and heph things , but ive gone over the basics with them many times and they refuse to listen, so ive resorted to there level im afraid .i respect your stance though .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

coz i said so fool .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i find it appealing to argue with people who are flawed .it gives me great pleasure destroying belief , as i know what harm belief in religion does to the world .
> yes i have given up on'refuting' things deeply with people on here , as they put there fingers in there ears and go 'blah blah blah , as i said before you might have the time to try n teach olly and heph things , but ive gone over the basics with them many times and they refuse to listen, so ive resorted to there level im afraid .i respect your stance though .


it never gets boring 'poking olly ' with the stupid stick lmfao


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## Heisenberg (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i find it appealing to argue with people who are flawed .it gives me great pleasure destroying belief , as i know what harm belief in religion does to the world .
> yes i have given up on'refuting' things deeply with people on here , as they put there fingers in there ears and go 'blah blah blah , as i said before you might have the time to try n teach olly and heph things , but ive gone over the basics with them many times and they refuse to listen, so ive resorted to there level im afraid .i respect your stance though .


Fair enough, you are now being honest rather than illegitimately defending yourself. However I must point out one more thing. When you say "i know what harm belief in religion does to the world" you are citing the need for progress and using it to justify counter-productive behavior. There is a reason you have not reached anyone through these boards, and I suspect it is not because these people are unreachable. Skepticism is a seed you can plant, it never grows right away. If you make reasonable arguments with sound logic, people are likely to remember. I'll admit that we do need to be persistent and assertive, but if you only make inflammatory comments designed to bully people into believing what you think is right, they will only remember the opposition and never consider the validity. If you know this and do it anyway, you no longer have the advantage of citing progress as your motivation, and must admit that it is done solely out of a perverse pleasure. I know skeptics that reach people everyday and make real strides towards academic and intellectual progress, and they never do it by insulting and fighting. The worthy goal is not to simply destroy belief, which is easy, but to actually dispel belief, which is hard.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Fair enough, you are now being honest rather than illegitimately defending yourself. However I must point out one more thing. When you say "i know what harm belief in religion does to the world" you are citing the need for progress and using it to justify counter-productive behavior. There is a reason you have not reached anyone through these boards, and I suspect it is not because these people are unreachable. Skepticism is a seed you can plant, it never grows right away. If you make reasonable arguments with sound logic, people are likely to remember. I'll admit that we do need to be persistent and assertive, but if you only make inflammatory comments designed to bully people into believing what you think is right, they will only remember the opposition and never consider the validity. If you know this and do it anyway, you no longer have the advantage of citing progress as your motivation, and must admit that it is done solely out of a perverse pleasure. I know skeptics that reach people everyday and make real strides towards academic and intellectual progress, and they never do it by insulting and fighting. The worthy goal is not to simply destroy belief, which is easy, but to actually dispel belief, which is hard.


yeah i agree deep down heinz , but im smoking some crazy sativa right now and it makes me childish , and giggly , i seriousley laugh out loud to myself whilst im on here arguing with the likes of hepatitus and wolly olly , i know what your saying is totaly true but im just havin a giggle .


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i find it appealing to argue with people who are flawed .it gives me great pleasure destroying belief , as i know what harm belief in religion does to the world .
> yes i have given up on'refuting' things deeply with people on here , as they put there fingers in there ears and go 'blah blah blah , as i said before you might have the time to try n teach olly and heph things , but ive gone over the basics with them many times and they refuse to listen, so ive resorted to there level im afraid .i respect your stance though .


What is it that I'm ignoring?


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yeah i agree deep down heinz , but im smoking some crazy sativa right now and it makes me childish , and giggly , i seriousley laugh out loud to myself whilst im on here arguing with the likes of hepatitus and wolly olly , i know what your saying is totaly true but im just havin a giggle .


Lol, I'm not even arguing with you hahahaha. What is the point of trying to get rid of me and oly's beliefs?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> What is it that I'm ignoring?


reality dude .


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> reality dude .


I see reality. I know how reality causes things in the bible to be nonsense.... I'm not ignoring reality.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

so how do you justify your belief in the magician in your sky if you are sticking to reality ?


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> so how do you justify your belief in the magician in your sky if you are sticking to reality ?


I can't.... That's why it's only a belief. 
Maybe someday we will find god.... Or maybe not. But if we do, god becomes reality. Reality doesn't cross out anything.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

yeah you remember that dude ...............'its only belief ' lol
and how you say your a christian is beyond belief ,i have a true christian sat next to me who is disgusted by you .


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yeah you remember that dude ...............'its only belief ' lol
> and how you say your a christian is beyond belief ,i have a true christian sat next to me who is disgusted by you .


 It is only a belief until, one day, it becomes reality....


Why is he/she disgusted with me? And why should I care? Obviously that "Christian" passes judgment on others so many other "Christians" would be disgusted with him/her too lol. There was absolutely no point in telling me about that guys/girls opinion.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> It is only a belief until, one day, it becomes reality....
> 
> 
> Why is he/she disgusted with me? And why should I care? Obviously that "Christian" passes judgment on others so many other "Christians" would be disgusted with him/her too lol. There was absolutely no point in telling me about that guys/girls opinion.


well this is her exact words , ' a christian believes in the bible , and the bible is gods word , you cannot change and suit gods word to please yourself '


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

she pretty much says unless you follow gods word of the bible you are not a christian , and to be honest dude i agree with her , if the bible was open to be interprated in any way you like (wich it is not, it clearly states rules and boundaries ) then there would be no point in the bible atall .?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

Alanis morissette ..............jagged littele pill .......................the best album ever created by human .


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## Heisenberg (Nov 25, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I can't.... That's why it's only a belief.
> 
> It is only a belief until, one day, it becomes reality....


I think you seriously need to think about this statement, and what the nature of belief is. We belief a proposition because we trust that it accurately represents a state of reality. From a simple belief like "I tied my shoes this morning" to a complicated belief like those behind chemotherapy, this remains true. Even a superstitious belief, like fear of black cats, follows the mechanism of trusting that it states something about reality. Basic survival demands we be accurate about our reality. Beliefs become principals of action. We rightfully attempt to justify beliefs with some sort of evidence. We seek for them to cohere both logically and comparatively with each other. This is why individuals are able to construct a personal view of the world that largely agrees with others. Even something simple like knowing what I mean when I say words like 'danger', 'upwards', or 'seven' stems from this shared connection. Religious beliefs are not distinct; they are not exempt from this premise, so why should they be exempt from the constraints we apply to all other beliefs? Just something I think you should think about when you say a belief is just a belief until it becomes reality.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

Heinz i really hope you look like the dude in your sig it suits your personality really well lol .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

Btw who da fuck is the guy in your sig ?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 25, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFgU4EdJZwo&feature=related


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## Heisenberg (Nov 25, 2011)

Have to wait a good 25 years or so to find out if I look like him, but I have a similar mustache. The avatar is Walter White aka Heisenberg from Breaking bad.


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lol hepatitus give it up sunshine , ive described how ive come to my conclusion , now its time for you to come up with why you choose to believe in your fairy bearded man floating in the sky < sniggers ) >


You realize that personal revelation is a perfectly acceptable reason for people to believe in god, right? Oly and Heph could just "think" there's a god because they think they can feel him or had experiences that lead them to believe he exists. That's acceptable as evidence for them, just not acceptable evidence for me or you. I'm not saying their feeling is correct, and I personally don't believe it is, but demanding they use their internal mental state as proof to you that god exists is trivial, and really juvenile. 

Neither of them is willfully trying to change public policy based on their beliefs, so their beliefs don't need to be justified to anyone but themselves. And to my reccolection, neither of them has claimed that they actually have proof that god exists outside their own mental states. There's "evidence" in the bible to most believers, but I think Oly and Heph are both smart enough to realize that just because a book says something, doesn't make it so. It's more than just the bible telling believers to believe, something in their life has happened to make most believers feel close to god.

The only route that can be taken to try to debunk mental states is a deeper understanding of human psychology, why we believe the things we do, and why we have a hard time filtering our own thought patterns. It is *my *honest belief that religious people are simply misinterpreting their own brain signals, it's not a defect, or an illness. Even then it's just a best guess as there's so much we don't know about the brain.

It's funny really, most people assume they're an expert at their own mind because it's "theirs", when in reality most people don't have the foggiest clue as to how their own brain works or deals with stimuli.


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 25, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> You realize that personal revelation is a perfectly reasonable reason for people to believe in god, right? Oly and Heph could just "think" there's a god because they think they can feel him or had experiences that lead them to believe he exists. That's acceptable as evidence for them, just not acceptable evidence for me or you. I'm not saying their feeling is correct, and I personally don't believe it is, but demanding they use their internal mental state as proof to you that god exists is trivial, and really juvenile.
> 
> Neither of them is willfully trying to change public policy based on their beliefs, so their beliefs don't need to be justified to anyone but themselves. And to my reccolection, neither of them has claimed that they actually have proof that god exists outside their own mental states. There's "evidence" in the bible to most believers, but I think Oly and Heph are both smart enough to realize that just because a book says something, doesn't make it so. It's more than just the bible telling believers to believe, something in their life has happened to make most believers feel close to god.
> 
> ...


...yeehaw!


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## olylifter420 (Nov 25, 2011)

> im glad you have the time n patience to stroke ollys balls but i dont .



you are bad atheist man... your own kind dont even like you and think you are the MR patient... your mum is a believer so that makes her a retard as well... punk ass


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## olylifter420 (Nov 25, 2011)

> .i respect your stance though .


in other words, "i will suck your dick man"


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## olylifter420 (Nov 25, 2011)

> reality dude



your reality stinks like the uk... you douche bag... how are those clusters? must be nice you piece of shit...


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Nov 25, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> well this is her exact words , ' a christian believes in the bible , and the bible is gods word , you cannot change and suit gods word to please yourself '


So it's bad if I supposedly change the bible to fit myself (which I have not), but it's cool of her to judge others harshly which the bible says not to do. Lol what a hypocrite.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 26, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> you are bad atheist man... your own kind dont even like you and think you are the MR patient... your mum is a believer so that makes her a retard as well... punk ass


 boo hoo my internet feelings are hurt .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 26, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So it's bad if I supposedly change the bible to fit myself (which I have not), but it's cool of her to judge others harshly which the bible says not to do. Lol what a hypocrite.


 if your going to call yourself a christian , then at least try acting like one .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 26, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> You realize that personal revelation is a perfectly acceptable reason for people to believe in god, right? Oly and Heph could just "think" there's a god because they think they can feel him or had experiences that lead them to believe he exists. That's acceptable as evidence for them, just not acceptable evidence for me or you. I'm not saying their feeling is correct, and I personally don't believe it is, but demanding they use their internal mental state as proof to you that god exists is trivial, and really juvenile.
> 
> Neither of them is willfully trying to change public policy based on their beliefs, so their beliefs don't need to be justified to anyone but themselves. And to my reccolection, neither of them has claimed that they actually have proof that god exists outside their own mental states. There's "evidence" in the bible to most believers, but I think Oly and Heph are both smart enough to realize that just because a book says something, doesn't make it so. It's more than just the bible telling believers to believe, something in their life has happened to make most believers feel close to god.
> 
> ...


 there was actualy a gene singled out by a scientist that he reckoned carriers of that certain gene were much more likely to believe in things like god , conspiracies, witchs magic ghosts vampires and spritual stuff etc etc . so maybe some people cant help but believe these things .its allmost like being gullible i suppose some people cant help being gullible .


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## olylifter420 (Nov 26, 2011)

Man you and that scientist i reckon are fucking idiots!

You think just cause we believe in God we are going to believe anything.. You fucktard





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> there was actualy a gene singled out by a scientist that he reckoned carriers of that certain gene were much more likely to believe in things like god , conspiracies, witchs magic ghosts vampires and spritual stuff etc etc . so maybe some people cant help but believe these things .its allmost like being gullible i suppose some people cant help being gullible .


----------



## trichome fiend (Nov 26, 2011)

....listen to this analogy/dialog....it's fucking hilarious. 

[youtube]qCqTH5MtUu4[/youtube]


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Nov 26, 2011)

the concept of God is a projection of the self.What is God?There is no universal answer to this question that is impericaly known as correct amongst all people.But every answer given contains ideals of the persons own notion or belief in God.So God is in this sense man made.If you dont believe in God then it is science or "realism" that feeds your truth and understanding instead of spirituality.Western religion is loaded with this God projected idealism that has domineered the lives of its followers from the truth of themselves and feeding the imagination with reward and punishment realms that only exist in the mind no place else.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 26, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> Man you and that scientist i reckon are fucking idiots!
> 
> You think just cause we believe in God we are going to believe anything.. You fucktard


 wait a minuite isnt it you who allso believes in ancient aliens lol


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## olylifter420 (Nov 26, 2011)

Wait a minute, wasnt you who thinks believers are retards and your mum is a believer, so that makes you???




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> wait a minuite isnt it you who allso believes in ancient aliens lol


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 26, 2011)

correction sunshine , my mum was a believer , untill i pursaded her to give up her faith .
anyway whats allthis with my mum , you fancy her or summet ? 
and yes believers are definately retarded .


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 26, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yes believers are definately retarded .


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science

Do some reading.


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## olylifter420 (Nov 26, 2011)

No, i do not "fancy" your old hag! You could keep her.

And that shows how dumb she is and the weak mind she has if a fucking idiot like you persuaded her,LOL LOL,LOL 

PINCHE PANOCHA





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> correction sunshine , my mum was a believer , untill i pursaded her to give up her faith .
> anyway whats allthis with my mum , you fancy her or summet ?
> and yes believers are definately retarded .


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 26, 2011)

God damn get a room you two!


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## blazinkill504 (Nov 27, 2011)

sativa your ma was a christian before you talked her out of it?

we need to add you to this list then.


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## olylifter420 (Nov 27, 2011)

A room? With that douche? Nah!




Padawanbater2 said:


> God damn get a room you two!


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 27, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> God damn get a room you two!


 i couldnt share a room with someone who cant even grasp 'belief without evidence ' i cant tollerate dumb people in enclosed spaces .


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## Heisenberg (Nov 27, 2011)

What Pad is trying to say is, stop using this thread for personal bickering and take it to PM's. This is childish, embarrassing behavior that has no place among adult discussions. No matter what your beliefs or differences, have some integrity and spare us the schoolyard trashtalk. We are not about to go cleaning up your messages day after day; be your own parent and make better decisions.

These boards are provided for the sake of education, expression, solidarity, and finding common ground. They are not simply a platform for you to get your personal kicks or here to provide an audience for your caterwaul, and their use as such will not be tolerated.


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## BigBlunt72 (Nov 27, 2011)

God didn't make religion man did


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Nov 27, 2011)

"Caterwaul" i have not seen this word used in a long time, I actualy had to wiki to relearn it.


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## cannabineer (Nov 27, 2011)

They're held up with caterpillars. cn


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 28, 2011)

BigBlunt72 said:


> God didn't make religion man did


...God IS religion. Every religion attempts to show that. You likely see religion as people going to church, pretending they invented 'nice', and all accompanying features of it.


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 28, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> They're held up with caterpillars. cn


...nicely done, cn-eer <---that sounds like I'm passing you a joint  (over the caterwaul, for sure)

I really liked that he used that word, it's pretty nifty.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 28, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> What Pad is trying to say is, stop using this thread for personal bickering and take it to PM's. This is childish, embarrassing behavior that has no place among adult discussions. No matter what your beliefs or differences, have some integrity and spare us the schoolyard trashtalk. We are not about to go cleaning up your messages day after day; be your own parent and make better decisions.
> 
> These boards are provided for the sake of education, expression, solidarity, and finding common ground. They are not simply a platform for you to get your personal kicks or here to provide an audience for your caterwaul, and their use as such will not be tolerated.


wow talk about double standards there heinsberg ...........you've certainly changed your tune since you posted this about olly ...........lol it was only yesterday you were bashing me for calling olly mentally retarded lol 
Beef meet Oly, our resident fundie without a clue. He has been told about Russell's teapot before, and just about any other critical thinking concept you can imagine. I would suggest when you read his posts you just shake your head and move on without reply. His only goal is to use your reply, no matter how succinct or articulate, for a springboard to the rest of his diatribe, which he borrows from fundie mentality without actually understanding himself, so it comes across as a mentally challenged 5 year old girl. Oly has to sit at the kids table and not participate with the adults until he learns how to properly conduct himself. Unless you enjoy poking a retard with a stick, you shouldn't waste your time.​Last edited by Heisenberg; 10-04-2011 at 09:22 PM. 


ps ive been on this forum many years before you and dont need telling whats acceptable here by you , especially when you trash talk with people as and it when it suits you . ​


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## olylifter420 (Nov 28, 2011)

And your point being what






ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> wow talk about double standards there heinsberg ...........you've certainly changed your tune since you posted this about olly ...........lol it was only yesterday you were bashing me for calling olly mentally retarded lol
> Beef meet Oly, our resident fundie without a clue. He has been told about Russell's teapot before, and just about any other critical thinking concept you can imagine. I would suggest when you read his posts you just shake your head and move on without reply. His only goal is to use your reply, no matter how succinct or articulate, for a springboard to the rest of his diatribe, which he borrows from fundie mentality without actually understanding himself, so it comes across as a mentally challenged 5 year old girl. Oly has to sit at the kids table and not participate with the adults until he learns how to properly conduct himself. Unless you enjoy poking a retard with a stick, you shouldn't waste your time.​Last edited by Heisenberg; 10-04-2011 at 09:22 PM.
> 
> 
> ps ive been on this forum many years before you and dont need telling whats acceptable here by you , especially when you trash talk with people as and it when it suits you . ​


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## spandy (Nov 28, 2011)

91 pages, has anyone changed anyone else's mind? Didn't think so.

I'm a Christian, if anyone has a problem with it, then it's your problem to deal with, not mine


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 28, 2011)

spandy said:


> 91 pages, has anyone changed anyone else's mind? Didn't think so.
> 
> I'm a Christian, if anyone has a problem with it, then it's your problem to deal with, not mine



...evolution does not preclude a deity (hey beef, that's a choprism  ). Anyway, I like that. I don't see any point in trying to change a person's mind. We're at where we're at. Seems possible to respect that, don't you think? (you=everyone in this case)

Imagine if our legs were like this sub-forum. With all the cooperation going on we'd get nowhere pretty fckn fast.


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> wow talk about double standards there heinsberg ...........you've certainly changed your tune since you posted this about olly ...........lol it was only yesterday you were bashing me for calling olly mentally retarded lol
> Beef meet Oly, our resident fundie without a clue. He has been told about Russell's teapot before, and just about any other critical thinking concept you can imagine. I would suggest when you read his posts you just shake your head and move on without reply. His only goal is to use your reply, no matter how succinct or articulate, for a springboard to the rest of his diatribe, which he borrows from fundie mentality without actually understanding himself, so it comes across as a mentally challenged 5 year old girl. Oly has to sit at the kids table and not participate with the adults until he learns how to properly conduct himself. Unless you enjoy poking a retard with a stick, you shouldn't waste your time.​Last edited by Heisenberg; 10-04-2011 at 09:22 PM.
> 
> 
> ps ive been on this forum many years before you and dont need telling whats acceptable here by you , especially when you trash talk with people as and it when it suits you . ​



Eh.... Oly has actually progressed his views somewhat since that discussion took place. 


In this case; both you, (TSH) *and *Oly are acting childish, and bantering about things that have nothing to do with the theism/atheism debate or anything in between. Debate is one thing, and it can even get somewhat personal; but when debate turns into "fuck your mom", "you suck at boxing", and "you're retarded", we've gone beyond anything that can be defined as useful.

So, with that being said; would both of you mind steering the conversation back to a more useful topic, and attempt to refrain from blatant personal attacks? 

That'd be awesome!


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 28, 2011)

https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/489426-whats-apology-worth.html


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## Heisenberg (Nov 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> wow talk about double standards there heinsberg ...........you've certainly changed your tune since you posted this about olly ...........lol it was only yesterday you were bashing me for calling olly mentally retarded lol
> Beef meet Oly, our resident fundie without a clue. He has been told about Russell's teapot before, and just about any other critical thinking concept you can imagine. I would suggest when you read his posts you just shake your head and move on without reply. His only goal is to use your reply, no matter how succinct or articulate, for a springboard to the rest of his diatribe, which he borrows from fundie mentality without actually understanding himself, so it comes across as a mentally challenged 5 year old girl. Oly has to sit at the kids table and not participate with the adults until he learns how to properly conduct himself. Unless you enjoy poking a retard with a stick, you shouldn't waste your time.​Last edited by Heisenberg; 10-04-2011 at 09:22 PM.
> 
> 
> ps ive been on this forum many years before you and dont need telling whats acceptable here by you , especially when you trash talk with people as and it when it suits you . ​


I think most of us can see the distinction between this and trash talk. This is an example of me speaking out about the same issue as I am with you. Notice that I wasn't suggesting we should all insult oly's mother and call him a douchebag for pages at a time. There is a difference between disrespecting someone and insulting someone for kicks. Oly's conduct was contemptible, and that is what I attacked, not his intelligence or his choice to believe, certainly not his family. Oly is now acting like an adult and engaging in serious discussion, with the exception of the times you throw mental rocks at him and make him angry. I give oly more respect now because he has earned it. He earned it by giving us proper respect, and pretty much everyone on this board now takes him more seriously than before. It's my opinion that you could learn a lesson from oly instead of worrying about score keeping. I took a stand on oly, emotional I admit, for the sake of demanding standards of conduct. You do your best to bring out the worst in oly just so you can point and laugh at him, and admit it is for no other reason than personal sensationalism. There is no excuse for oly responding to your goading the way he did, which is why I was cautioning both of you. 

I think we are all guilty of acting this way. When I fist stumbled onto skepticism I acted a lot like you. The things people believe are astonishing, maddening, and the urge to mock them is almost intuitive. I had a much different attitude when I first came to these boards and part of what improved that attitude, and the productivity of my posts, came from seriously listening to the opposition. People like Brako and karri0n didn't just see my words as opposition, but as serious thoughts, and gave me serious thoughts in return. They challenged me and forced me to grow, and I found that I enjoyed challenge far more than point by point mockery. To me this means growing up; it is the difference between being a child and being an adult. There is real progress and consciousness raising that can be done on these boards, indeed that is their purpose, and simply upsetting users for self-aggrandizement is contemptible behavior. No matter how long you have been at these boards, if you continue this behavior, you will continue to be told by me that it is not acceptable.


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## april (Nov 28, 2011)

Christianity has made it impossible for young women to buy tampons while attending high school, but it's ok for the boys to shower together  
People use religion as an excuse to insult each other and judge each other, do people argue over food? no we embrace new flavours and encourage others to taste 
A blind women taught me to truly see the world


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## cannabineer (Nov 28, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/489426-whats-apology-worth.html


A sorry sum. cn


----------



## olylifter420 (Nov 29, 2011)

> I think most of us can see the distinction between this and trash talk. This is an example of me speaking out about the same issue as I am with you. Notice that I wasn't suggesting we should all insult oly's mother and call him a douchebag for pages at a time. There is a difference between disrespecting someone and insulting someone for kicks. Oly's conduct was contemptible, and that is what I attacked, not his intelligence or his choice to believe, certainly not his family. Oly is now acting like an adult and engaging in serious discussion, with the exception of the times you throw mental rocks at him and make him angry. I give oly more respect now because he has earned it. He earned it by giving us proper respect, and pretty much everyone on this board now takes him more seriously than before. It's my opinion that you could learn a lesson from oly instead of worrying about score keeping. I took a stand on oly, emotional I admit, for the sake of demanding standards of conduct. You do your best to bring out the worst in oly just so you can point and laugh at him, and admit it is for no other reason than personal sensationalism. There is no excuse for oly responding to your goading the way he did, which is why I was cautioning both of you.
> 
> I think we are all guilty of acting this way. When I fist stumbled onto skepticism I acted a lot like you. The things people believe are astonishing, maddening, and the urge to mock them is almost intuitive. I had a much different attitude when I first came to these boards and part of what improved that attitude, and the productivity of my posts, came from seriously listening to the opposition. People like Brako and karri0n didn't just see my words as opposition, but as serious thoughts, and gave me serious thoughts in return. They challenged me and forced me to grow, and I found that I enjoyed challenge far more than point by point mockery. To me this means growing up; it is the difference between being a child and being an adult. There is real progress and consciousness raising that can be done on these boards, indeed that is their purpose, and simply upsetting users for self-aggrandizement is contemptible behavior. No matter how long you have been at these boards, if you continue this behavior, you will continue to be told by me that it is not acceptable.





> Eh.... Oly has actually progressed his views somewhat since that discussion took place.
> 
> 
> In this case; both you, (TSH) and Oly are acting childish, and bantering about things that have nothing to do with the theism/atheism debate or anything in between. Debate is one thing, and it can even get somewhat personal; but when debate turns into "fuck your mom", "you suck at boxing", and "you're retarded", we've gone beyond anything that can be defined as useful.
> ...



Hey, thanks for the encouraging words guys, they mean something. THat i have been able to see myself evolve from what i once held to myself. I have tried my best to contribute good stuff, since most people at my college are pretty dumb and cant hold a good discussion without looking at you with the "deer in the headlights" eyes with the words you are saying...lol...

I just want you all to understand i am not like how i reply to tsh... he is a punk and deserves no respect from me and i will not give that thing any!!!! And when he wants to come on here talking all this shit without anyone telling it anything, im going to chime in myself and speak my mind. Just cause i am a believer does not mean i will let shit like that go un responded to... Excuse my language and if any, it is that thing tsh, that you all should tell something to. I am just giving it the same treatment it is giving me... sorry for the hostility.


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## olylifter420 (Nov 29, 2011)

> Christianity has made it impossible for young women to buy tampons while attending high school,


really? when did this happen? That is the biggest lie i have ever heard!!!



> People use religion as an excuse to insult each other and judge each other,


people do not need religion to insult each other, it happens all the time. on here without a doubt though.



> do people argue over food?


yes, people in africa will kill you over rice without the external motive of religion.


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## olylifter420 (Nov 29, 2011)

> Imagine if our legs were like this sub-forum


more like our motor end plates and motor units and neurons and gap junctions... oh...and hormones


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## april (Nov 29, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> really? when did this happen? That is the biggest lie i have ever heard!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I was educated in a catholic school, no they don't sell tampons, reason being is that it tares the hymen when inserted to them this makes women no longer a virgin  lol so i am correct, i did play on various sports teams, we traveled to other catholic schools that only sold pads also, NEVER tampons.

I meant different types of food  when u pick tidbits of a quote apart u truly read my words entirely wrong.


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## olylifter420 (Nov 29, 2011)

Why are they not going to sell tampons elsewhere other then at the catholic school? 

you also asked if people argue over food? and yes, people all over the world argue and even kill over food.

and i did not misinterpret your words, please be more clear so people will not misinterpret your words




april said:


> I was educated in a catholic school, no they don't sell tampons, reason being is that it tears the hymen when inserted to them this makes women no longer a virgin  lol so i am correct, i did play on various sports teams, we traveled to other catholic schools that only sold pads also, NEVER tampons.
> 
> I meant different types of food  when u pick tidbits of a quote apart u truly read my words entirely wrong.


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## cannabineer (Nov 29, 2011)

To be entirely fair, april, you made it sound like it was universal in Christianity to forbid tampons, when it actually is a minority of Catholic priests working outside of the official umbrella of the Church saying such things. 
From an article about a tampon maker trying to improve, uuhh, market penetration:



> This concern crops up in countries that are predominantly Catholic, executives say. In Italy, for instance, just 4% of women use tampons. The Roman Catholic Church says it has no official position on tampons. Nonetheless, some priests have spoken out against the product, associating it with birth control and sexual activities that are forbidden by the Church. Indeed, Tampax faced objections from priests in the U.S. when it introduced tampons in 1936.


 cn


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## april (Nov 29, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> Why are they not going to sell tampons elsewhere other then at the catholic school?
> 
> you also asked if people argue over food? and yes, people all over the world argue and even kill over food.
> 
> and i did not misinterpret your words, please be more clear so people will not misinterpret your words


I was very specific, ur the one unable interpret my words silly, or maybe u just feel like arguing, either way i know what i said u just quoted some of what i wrote 
Did i not mention flavours  maybe i should quote myself and u can try again, i find it funny that i'm able to undertand 2 languages when so many struggle with one 
See i can be passive aggressive but it does not help when i simply state my own opinions and views of something i've lived my entire life  lol


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## april (Nov 29, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> To be entirely fair, april, you made it sound like it was universal in Christianity to forbid tampons, when it actually is a minority of Catholic priests working outside of the official umbrella of the Church saying such things.
> From an article about a tampon maker trying to improve, uuhh, market penetration:
> 
> cn


No i actualy said this :
Christianity has made it impossible for young women to buy tampons while attending high school, but it's ok for the boys to shower together





People use religion as an excuse to insult each other and judge each other, do people argue over food? no we embrace new flavours and encourage others to taste





A blind women taught me to truly see the world




​hahahahaha MEN


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## cannabineer (Nov 29, 2011)

april said:


> No i actualy said this :Christianity has made it impossible for young women to buy tampons while attending high school, but it's ok for the boys to shower together
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm only looking at the text before the first smilie. It is general, inclusive, declarative. I am interested to know where I can read about this Christian injunction, especially the bit of doctrine about high school. cn


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## Dizzle Frost (Nov 29, 2011)

april said:


> I was educated in a catholic school, no they don't sell tampons, reason being is that it tares the hymen when inserted to them this makes women no longer a virgin  lol so i am correct, i did play on various sports teams, we traveled to other catholic schools that only sold pads also, NEVER tampons.
> 
> I meant different types of food  when u pick tidbits of a quote apart u truly read my words entirely wrong.


true my school had these big "sanatiary napkin" things in the girls batrooms LOL i guess baby jesus didnt want his lady flock getting deflowered by a tampon


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 29, 2011)

Dizzle Frost said:


> true my school had these big "sanatiary napkin" things in the girls batrooms LOL i guess baby jesus didnt want his lady flock getting deflowered by a tampon


...I wonder if it has anything to do with chemistry.


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## april (Nov 29, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> I'm only looking at the text before the first smilie. It is general, inclusive, declarative. I am interested to know where I can read about this Christian injunction, especially the bit of doctrine about high school. cn


How is me saying "buy tampons while attending school" not specific? should i have used a specific date and time? attending means while at school does it not? lol Hey my first language is french i'm trying here lol, damn english vocabulary has to many damn words lol
No idea man, i always had a jumbo box in my locker 4 everyone to use, they even refused to discuss birth control ,condoms or any other type of contraceptive  
New Gym teacher suspended for 2 months for discussing masturbation, he just quit, and they wonder why catholic kids go wild


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## Dizzle Frost (Nov 29, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I wonder if it has anything to do with chemistry.


nah just a bunch of catholic bullshit


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## april (Nov 29, 2011)

Dizzle Frost said:


> true my school had these big "sanatiary napkin" things in the girls batrooms LOL i guess baby jesus didnt want his lady flock getting deflowered by a tampon


hahahaha someone spent some time in the ladies bathroom  lol ya man those would cover me belly button to lower back lmfao no idea what man ordered those things lol i mean most hight school girls need half of one lol, omg i remember when they left the machine open and we took them all and wrote hello on the wall lmfao


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 29, 2011)

Dizzle Frost said:


> nah just a bunch of catholic bullshit


...how badly is the world's population out of control?


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## cannabineer (Nov 29, 2011)

april said:


> How is me saying "buy tampons while attending school" not specific? should i have used a specific date and time? attending means while at school does it not? lol Hey my first language is french i'm trying here lol, damn english vocabulary has to many damns words lol
> No idea man, i always had a jumbo box in my locker 4 everyone to use, they even refused to discuss birth control ,condoms or any other type of contraceptive
> New Gym teacher suspended for 2 months for discussing masturbation, he just quit, and they wonder why catholic kids go wild


I'm just explaining how I read it. By not saying "some women" or introducing equivalent qualifiers, the sentence still reads to my eyes that it is about all young Christian women everywhere. A date/time would not change the syntax. Now that i have a better idea what you mean, I'll stop picking nits. cn


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## Dizzle Frost (Nov 29, 2011)

april said:


> hahahaha someone spent some time in the ladies bathroom  lol ya man those would cover me belly button to lower back lmfao no idea what man ordered those things lol i mean most hight school girls need half of one lol, omg i remember when they left the machine open and we took them all and wrote hello on the wall lmfao


 Yea i spent soem time in there....the changeroom was to public, so thats were cheerleaders went to get deflorwered


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## cannabineer (Nov 29, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...how badly is the world's population out of control?


As long as we have this annoying moral stance that regional famine is bad ... it's pretty wildly out of control ... ~evil cackle~ cn


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 29, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> As long as we have this annoying moral stance that regional famine is bad ... it's pretty wildly out of control ... ~evil cackle~ cn


..."Horn / Horny" Seems plausible


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## april (Nov 29, 2011)

Dizzle Frost said:


> Yea i spent soem time in there....the changeroom was to public, so thats were cheerleaders went to get deflorwered


Ha we used the drama room , above the stage was a loft type area  well hidden from below but birds eye view from above, dude we would climb that latter during class ( maybe 1:37 pm on a rainy tuesday ) just to tease the guys and annoy the young male teacher


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## olylifter420 (Nov 30, 2011)

the message i got from your post is that it was impossible for young girls to buy tampons ANYWHERE.





april said:


> I was very specific, ur the one unable interpret my words silly, or maybe u just feel like arguing, either way i know what i said u just quoted some of what i wrote
> Did i not mention flavours  maybe i should quote myself and u can try again, i find it funny that i'm able to undertand 2 languages when so many struggle with one
> See i can be passive aggressive but it does not help when i simply state my own opinions and views of something i've lived my entire life  lol


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## april (Dec 1, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> the message i got from your post is that it was impossible for young girls to buy tampons ANYWHERE.


So the part where i wrote " buy while attending high school" was just to much specific info to grasp?? 

hahahahaha dude just give up, all ur doing is picking apart what i said an bitching that u can't interpret words when strong together in a sentence.

Dude sorry but did u have something to add to the conversation, or u just don't like what i say and feel the need to argue? lol either way arguing with a women about tampons and semantics cranks me up


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## olylifter420 (Dec 1, 2011)

Oh, so then even though you had the ability to go to any store, other then at you school, you could not buy any tampons there. That is what you saying, unless you did and i couldnt understand your semantics.




april said:


> So the part where i wrote " buy while attending high school" was just to much specific info to grasp??
> 
> hahahahaha dude just give up, all ur doing is picking apart what i said an bitching that u can't interpret words when strong together in a sentence.
> 
> Dude sorry but did u have something to add to the conversation, or u just don't like what i say and feel the need to argue? lol either way arguing with a women about tampons and semantics cranks me up


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## silasraven (Dec 2, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ..."Horn / Horny" Seems plausible


 why cant kids buy condoms? hmm how many underagers have aids? and kids are most likely to fuck about.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

lol at olly gettin upset over condoms ...............pitty daddy didnt use one lol 

even though i find your retardation an anoyance at the very least , i still love you olly , and i dont need a magical jesus to feel the love ( 2 E's and i love you all )


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

spandy said:


> 91 pages, has anyone changed anyone else's mind? Didn't think so.
> 
> I'm a Christian, if anyone has a problem with it, then it's your problem to deal with, not mine


 yeah 91 pages and still not one single scrap of evidence a god exists lol im amased this argument can even carry on , its desperation on the believers side to say the least .


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yeah 91 pages and still not one single scrap of evidence a god exists lol im amased this argument can even carry on , its desperation on the believers side to say the least .


...desperation? Prove it.


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## olylifter420 (Dec 2, 2011)

desperation on your side fool... it must suck being tsh... you know, your life mission is to supposedly "debunk religious beliefs" when the only thing he is debunking are his spared atheist views... you get being an atheist all wrong dude... you are not good at being an atheist either...

i was not arguing about condoms dip shit... she was not clear and made it seem as if you could not buy tampons anywhere in canada if you were a girl being raised in a catholic school... lol to your big fail on everything... 





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yeah 91 pages and still not one single scrap of evidence a god exists lol im amased this argument can even carry on , its desperation on the believers side to say the least .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Dec 2, 2011)

yeah come back when you can prove your god exists untill then all i say is ner ner ner ner


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 2, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yeah come back when you can prove your god exists untill then all i say is *ner ner ner ner*


...like your avatar?


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## april (Dec 2, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> desperation on your side fool... it must suck being tsh... you know, your life mission is to supposedly "debunk religious beliefs" when the only thing he is debunking are his spared atheist views... you get being an atheist all wrong dude... you are not good at being an atheist either...
> 
> i was not arguing about condoms dip shit... she was not clear and made it seem as if you could not buy tampons anywhere in canada if you were a girl being raised in a catholic school... lol to your big fail on everything...


No u assumed young catholic women across canada could not buy tampons, i actualy wrote that while attending high school girls could not buy any, i never said anything about outside school or this being related to canada  Maybe ask for clarifications when u don't undertand something, assuming was ur own way of trying to get it, but ya failed lol


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## MixedMelodyMindBender (Dec 2, 2011)

Why dont you(Sativa high) come back when you came prove that there is no god. See shit stain, 2 can play this game of fuckwad. Stop treading on people, you will regret it one day youngin'. Say what ya want, but you've removed all doubt from my mind that your a young punk at best, who desires to troll on the faiths of others. I guess if your a low class waste of life it would be the thing to do.

The lack of physical evidence of the existence of God is NOT A VALID ARGUMENT FOR GOD BEING A POSSIBLE FABLE. If you had better agendas you would be able to see transparently. In that you would see that there is just as much shit science cant explain let alone tiny ol man. Without a GOD is would be humanly impossible to create one. And create one with the complexities of a God. Do you even know how many cells are in the human body? Do you understand just how complex we really are? Do you have a clue how long earth has been around? You obviously dont. Life is a subject of complexity. Not just something that just happened. Complex thing like humans, and earth, and the solar system and something far greater than a human being can design. There is far more we DONT KNOW than what WE DO KNOW. YOU are a PRIME example of arrogant, ignorant child, whom only wishes to hear what he wants to hear. A prime example we are not growing wiser, just taller. FOR THE LAST TIME....DONT BELIEVE ANYONE, ESPECIALLY ME, THINK FOR YOURSELF....BUT NOT AT THE COST OF TREADING ON THE WILL, OR FAITH OF OTHERS!

Treat others with respect and you wont get shit like this. Your Welcome!


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## mindphuk (Dec 3, 2011)

MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> The lack of physical evidence of the existence of God is NOT A VALID ARGUMENT FOR GOD BEING A POSSIBLE FABLE.


Lack of any empirical evidence of a deity is excellent reason to consider the possibility that it is a man-derived myth. 



> If you had better agendas you would be able to see transparently. In that you would see that there is just as much shit science cant explain let alone tiny ol man. Without a GOD is would be humanly impossible to create one. And create one with the complexities of a God. Do you even know how many cells are in the human body? Do you understand just how complex we really are? Do you have a clue how long earth has been around? You obviously dont. Life is a subject of complexity. Not just something that just happened. Complex thing like humans, and earth, and the solar system and something far greater than a human being can design.


Ignoring the fact that we do have good naturalistic explanations for both the origin of the solar system and humans, none of which are 'designed', your argument from ignorance is not a valid reason to believe there is a god. 


> There is far more we DONT KNOW than what WE DO KNOW. YOU are a PRIME example of arrogant, ignorant child, whom only wishes to hear what he wants to hear. A prime example we are not growing wiser, just taller. FOR THE LAST TIME....DONT BELIEVE ANYONE, ESPECIALLY ME, THINK FOR YOURSELF....BUT NOT AT THE COST OF TREADING ON THE WILL, OR FAITH OF OTHERS!
> 
> Treat others with respect and you wont get shit like this. Your Welcome!


 Your argument is essentially, "we don't know how x happened, therefore god." Insufficient for any thinking person.


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## MixedMelodyMindBender (Dec 3, 2011)

MindPhuk, Let give this subject some much due transparency 

The Clarification : 
"*Lack of any empirical evidence of a deity is excellent reason to consider the possibility that it is a man-derived myth"*- Keyword here is possibility. Your making a possibility a conclusion of no god. This needs to be expanded upon more. In the event that there is a lack of any empirical evidence of a deity that would in deed be a solid reason to consider MANY POSSIBILITIES...NOT justThat of "its just a man-derived myth", as your implying. Thats a materalistic train of thought. Human Life, and our Universe are extremely complex subjects. Way beyond the average humans mental capacities. 

You are very misinformed if you believe their is no evidence to a deity, especially a divine intellectual creator of a religion. I am not sure how you are so close minded on that. 

The Key to finding the truth in life is accepting the reality that everything you believe could in fact be incorrect. You seem interested in this subject and I greatly recommend you apply yourself into some sincere research of both sides of the argument and make a choice of your own, for yourself. 

Naturalistic Explanation?As in explanation of absolute facts? Please inform me of what gibberish that is.So you logically believe we could naturally conceive a higher power, on the sole power of own species. Quantum Physics shows you can not make/take something from nothing. Most religion's agree on one very unique belief that gives more prudence to Divine intervention as the only other logical option. IN THE BEGINNING THERE WAS NOTHING. Especially in consideration of the sheer size of the creation we are considering can not, has not, and will never have a exact defintion. 
*
You will never find something your not looking for. **FOR THE LAST TIME....DONT BELIEVE ANYONE, ESPECIALLY ME, THINK FOR YOURSELF....BUT NOT AT THE COST OF TREADING ON THE WILL, OR FAITH OF OTHERS! ----This sums up how I feel about this argument.*

Where do you draw the conclusion of "essentially your argument is we dont know how x happened, therefore god." You are Insufficiently thinking things through completely. You twisted my words of THERE IS FAR MORE WE DONT KNOW THAN THAT OF WHAT WE DO KNOW to fit your pathetic attempt to sling trollish behavior and change my words to " we dont know how it happend, therefore god. I never said that anywhere in my above text. in fact its one of the smallest sentences in the post. The other being 

*YOUR WELCOME!!!!!!!!!( shortest sentence) MINDLESS(WAD) is aFUCK (WAD)!* Changing words is really fun if you are looking to have a moment of immature thinking and behavior


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## cannabineer (Dec 3, 2011)

MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> MindPhuk, Let give this subject some much due transparency
> 
> The Clarification :
> You are very misinformed if you believe there is no evidence to a deity, especially a divine intellectual creator of a religion. I am not sure how you are so close minded on that.


If you can show me such evidence I will pay attention. Bear in mind that the existence of a religious text or any other story told by humans to humans (which I believe all religious texts and accounts to be) does not count as evidence, because there is no way out of the circularity of using such to support the argument.
I also don't see much that is credible/compelling in "intelligent design" concepts. They all do not rely on evidence for a deity. They combine negative evidence for the absence of a deity with a basic premise that mindphuk has already discharged: "we cannot imagine how in nature, so ... something beyond nature". The deficiency of current human imagination is by no means a compelling argument for a superhuman agency. Jmo. cn


> The Key to finding the truth in life is accepting the reality that everything you believe could in fact be incorrect. You seem interested in this subject and I greatly recommend you apply yourself into some sincere research of both sides of the argument and make a choice of your own, for yourself.
> 
> .So you logically believe we could naturally conceive a higher power, on the sole power of own species.


I do. Imo it is a feature/quirk of our neurochemistries that we cognize certain things/conditions as 'spirit".


> Quantum Physics shows you can not make/take something from nothing.


 I don't agree. Quantum pair formation/resorption, which can be "split" at event horizons to produce free unpaired particles. matter and energy from nothing.


> Most religions agree on one very unique belief that gives more prudence to Divine intervention as the only other logical option. IN THE BEGINNING THERE WAS NOTHING. Especially in consideration of the sheer size of the creation we are considering can not, has not, and will never have a exact defintion.


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## MixedMelodyMindBender (Dec 3, 2011)

Im done repeating myself. The evidence is for you yourself to find. I openly state to NOT BELIEVE ME, THINK FOR YOURSELF.


Thats a very misleading statement to make about Quantum Physics. But going with your thought...what good is matter if it has no PURPOSE : It has to gain a PURPOSE from something in which quantum physics points to Intel Design. Google Quantum Physics that points toward a god....You are far from correct. This needs to be expanded upon more to be true and accurate. 
Its in the abilities of these matters and energies to have intelligent capacity in order to become more than mere matter(aimless matter in motion) or energy. The ability to compound into something more PROVES that they are of intelligent design for if left on THEIR OWN they would remain just aimless particles in motion that will more than likely run into a lot of shit and disperse into smaller particles ( laws of inertia playing now as well) . Useless Space Particle Matter and Energy that is aimlessly in motion in space is not the answer to are alpha. There is a minute chance, but no one is able to calculate the odds. 

To clarify they are photons. A photon generator creates photons. Something creates or makes them magically appear in its natural state/realm. They do not just happen. They are created through an intelligent process labeled Quantum Entanglement. 




PROVES SO! DO The MATH FOR YOURSELF  Again, please don't believe me. 

You are entitled to an opinion and I will gladly defend your right to it, but I have to say, its only an opinion and not a fact. For a reason imo  There is proof of metaphysical entities that we can not completely explain and some we cant even come close on. The marjority believe that God created-found us, Not we created god or a subject idea of a higher power. Idea's don't fall from the sky, they are created through a very complex, and intelligent process. As a species, we are very young in the scale of space and time. We have learned only a microscopic amount of our full genetic potential. A FULL GENETIC POTENTIAL THAT IS BEING FULFILLED ON THE ONLY COMPILED MATTER TUNED FOR OUR VERY SURVIVAL as well as the survival of millions and millions of other animals....And the only one we know for sure that can support our survival of our species, specifically. In our galaxy , which is god like big, it seems odd we ended up on the rock by a godly big combination of really extremely rare and set of circumstances that just happened to work out to the creation of us and many many other animals...and this all happened spontaniously instead of intelligently...Riiighttt. We forgetting its just us on earth? Thats a whole shit ton of creation...thats happening under extreme set of circumstances. The chances that this all happened spontaniously instead of by means of something of a higher intelligent power/deity are so distantly proportioned its laughable to conceive that this all happened by chance, and spontaneously and for some, for the sheer benefit of their not being a all knowing higher deity.

Find it even harder to fathom that we have a desire to breed for the PURPOSE of saving our species. Seems like a smart idea if your making humans. Particles dont come to gether and create desired purposeful intent to continue its own exsistence. As we know, photons dont have offspring, they just get to share one another without the need nor care of reproduction. Fuckin odd eh?> You know of the only one god to ever claim to have a purpose that is designed for us to not know of until he says so. Even odder right....fuckin nutzpa. How come rocks dont mate? How come gold and silver dont get it on. How come anything living has a means to reproduce....every last living animal...and again, mind you...were not alone..... What be a natural action and purpose to protect are offspring without a God? 

God is the most complex entity. A purpose filled life is not a product of evolution, random creations, or astronomical chances. Its the product of a all knowing creator-designer. 

To clarify, most monotheistic religions believe in the fundamental of in the beginning there was nothing. Not much to disagree with on that one...Nothing chirped is nothing heard. No comment on that common trait in higher powers that is actually backed up by great amounts of science??? From nothing life was created, did'nt just happen. There was a purpose, and there still is to tjhis very day. We all live very purpose filled lives...and this is all by chance? rare circumstances? evolved from nothingness? OPEN YOUR EYES!

The very act we are doing right now is because of a language. Which was created because of a desire to communicate...( wonder why we got programmed with that ability in our fine dna by the finest dna creator in the world) ...Seems like a agenda there....a purpose, a point to make. Purpose is Not something that happened by chance, or fell out the sky, or randomly become evolved into our species. It is one the single biggest FACTS that points to divine intel creation over any other possible option. 

YOUR WELCOME!


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## Heisenberg (Dec 3, 2011)

Look at that, When Sativa isn't involved we have actual discussion of evidence (or the lack of) instead of schoolyard teasing.


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## Beefbisquit (Dec 3, 2011)

MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> Im done repeating myself. The evidence is for you yourself to find. I openly state to NOT BELIEVE ME, THINK FOR YOURSELF.
> 
> 
> Thats a very misleading statement to make about Quantum Physics. But going with your thought...what good is matter if it has no PURPOSE :


Just because it's more comfortable for you to believe that matter has purpose doesn't make it so. 




> It has to gain a PURPOSE from something in which quantum physics points to Intel Design. Google Quantum Physics that points toward a god....You are far from correct. This needs to be expanded upon more to be true and accurate.


Again, you're adding the qualifier that matter has purpose, which is completely whimsical and unsubstantiated. It seems to me you think matter has purpose because your theory relies on it to make sense, that's circular.



> Its in the abilities of these matters and energies to have intelligent capacity in order to become more than mere matter(aimless matter in motion) or energy. The ability to compound into something more PROVES that they are of intelligent design for if left on THEIR OWN they would remain just aimless particles in motion that will more than likely run into a lot of shit and disperse into smaller particles ( laws of inertia playing now as well) .


Do you mean laws of physics? I fail to see how this points to intelligent design...



> Useless Space Particle Matter and Energy that is aimlessly in motion in space is not the answer to are alpha. There is a minute chance, but no one is able to calculate the odds.


Useless space and particles aren't thought to have existed before the big bang, no one knows for sure what was before the big bang.....



> To clarify they are photons. A photon generator creates photons. Something creates or makes them magically appear in its natural state/realm. They do not just happen. They are created through an intelligent process labeled Quantum Entanglement.


I assure you, there is nothing "magical" about it. Just because we don't know everything about a given topic does not mean we should inject it with god to explain away the problems. Problems are good, they lead to solutions. Reminds me of a cartoon;









> PROVES SO! DO The MATH FOR YOURSELF  Again, please don't believe me.


This proves a testable principle in QM, but says nothing about god existing....



> You are entitled to an opinion and I will gladly defend your right to it, but I have to say, its only an opinion and not a fact. For a reason imo  There is proof of metaphysical entities that we can not completely explain and some we cant even come close on.


If it can react with reality it's not metaphysical, it's physical. If it's physical, it's testable. If it's testable show me the test, or stop making untestable knowledge claims. 



> The marjority believe that God created-found us, Not we created god or a subject idea of a higher power. Idea's don't fall from the sky, they are created through a very complex, and intelligent process.


No, *good* ideas are created throught a very complex and intelligent process. Bad ideas are a dime a dozen...

You're correct ideas don't fall from the sky, humans come up with them to try to explain what they see and before we knew anything about anything what made the most sense was that an intelligent force was pulling strings from behind the scenes. Now we can explain exponentially more about reality, and don't need to shove 'god' into the equation. 




> As a species, we are very young in the scale of space and time. We have learned only a microscopic amount of our full genetic potential. A FULL GENETIC POTENTIAL THAT IS BEING FULFILLED ON THE ONLY COMPILED MATTER TUNED FOR OUR VERY SURVIVAL as well as the survival of millions and millions of other animals....


What? You think we're here to help with the survival of other animals? You lost me...



> And the only one we know for sure that can support our survival of our species, specifically. In our galaxy , which is god like big, it seems odd we ended up on the rock by a godly big combination of really extremely rare and set of circumstances that just happened to work out to the creation of us and many many other animals...and this all happened spontaniously instead of intelligently...Riiighttt.


So, you go from using QM for the basis of your argument, which says that anything is possible given enough time, to dismissing the idea that out of the billions and billions of galaxies that exist, and out of the billions and billions of planets in each of those galaxies, it's not possible for more life to have evolved under similar circumstances to us?

You keep using words like "creation" to describe us and animals when we evolved from simple single celled organisms. It's pretty well documented, it's called evolution. You should really check it out.




> We forgetting its just us on earth? Thats a whole shit ton of creation...thats happening under extreme set of circumstances. The chances that this all happened spontaniously instead of by means of something of a higher intelligent power/deity are so distantly proportioned its laughable to conceive that this all happened by chance, and spontaneously and for some, for the sheer benefit of their not being a all knowing higher deity.


It's not just us on earth.... 99% of species that have ever existed are now extinct. 

I wouldn't say it was spontaneous either, it happened according to the laws of physics and natural selection



> Find it even harder to fathom that we have a desire to breed for the PURPOSE of saving our species. Seems like a smart idea if your making humans.


All species have a biological motivation to reproduce, it's literally the only reason we exist. If we didn't have that drive, no one would reproduce and the species would die. Just look at the fucking pandas.... 

This is all completely explainable through biology...



> Particles dont come to gether and create desired purposeful intent to continue its own exsistence. As we know, photons dont have offspring, they just get to share one another without the need nor care of reproduction. Fuckin odd eh?>


Not really, one is alive and one is not. All living things on earth came from the same primordial soup, _x _billion years ago, so how would it make sense if we didn't have some of the same basic biological drives?



> You know of the only one god to ever claim to have a purpose that is designed for us to not know of until he says so.


What?



> How come rocks dont mate? How come gold and silver dont get it on.


The same reason rocks and gold can't heal themselves, they're non-living things.



> How come anything living has a means to reproduce....every last living animal...and again, mind you...were not alone..... What be a natural action and purpose to protect are offspring without a God? God is the most complex entity. A purpose filled life is not a product of evolution, random creations, or astronomical chances. Its the product of a all knowing creator-designer.


We derive purpose from our environment, not god. Before we had agriculture your purpose in life would be to run around trying not to die in too brutal of a death, while hunting and gathering food when it was available. 

Purpose? Our purpose is survival.



> To clarify, most monotheistic religions believe in the fundamental of in the beginning there was nothing. Not much to disagree with on that one...Nothing chirped is nothing heard. No comment on that common trait in higher powers that is actually backed up by great amounts of science.


Matter can't be created or destroyed, the "beginning" could have very well been the "end" of a previous universe.


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## cannabineer (Dec 3, 2011)

It is my current belief that purpose, like spirit, is an anthropoptic term. (anthropoptic = only makes sense from human perspective/prejudice)
I don't see a need for purpose except in purely human context. So for me, speaking of the purpose of life, nature, the universe ... is merely begging the question. Believing that the universe or nature etc. has a purpose is the same thing as believing in an engaged creative deity ... merely a semantic repackaging. I do not believe in a purpose that I, or some other human, doesn't supply. Imo. 

As for the evidence being for me to find ... that sounds like a cop-out. It is a hallmark of credible evidence that it is objective ... that it can be submitted for scrutiny by skeptics. Otherwise it does not deserve the term. Using the word "evidence" _specifically_ refers to something that will withstand neutral-to-hostile inquiry. I did not think it necessary to cover semantics! So my request is: make with the evidence or rescind your use of the term.


> There is proof of metaphysical entities that we can not completely explain and some we cant even come close on.


I would be interested in seeing this proof. I will say I am inclined to disbelieve it, because one cannot have a hope of proving something that one cannot explain or define! Isn't it in the very nature of metaphysical anythings that they are speculative, without concrete anchor? cn


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## Padawanbater2 (Dec 3, 2011)

MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> Human Life, and our Universe are extremely complex subjects. Way beyond the average humans mental capacities.


Which would mean a being capable of creating human life and the (not "our") universe would have to be at least equally as complex if you're being extremely generous. How was God created? 



MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> You are very misinformed if you believe their is no evidence to a deity, especially a divine intellectual creator of a religion. I am not sure how you are so close minded on that.


Cite some examples. What do you feel is the strongest evidence to support the existence of a god *and why*?



MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> I greatly recommend you apply yourself into some sincere research of both sides of the argument and make a choice of your own, for yourself.


Do you think atheists don't do sincere research of both sides of the argument? A God vs. no God? 

Most atheists that I know, including myself, were brought up *religious*. Atheism is not the 'norm' in our society, it takes work to achieve it. It takes much critical thought, analyzation, reflection and introspection to realize ones disbelief. What we once thought was absolutely true *did* turn out to be a lie. 

Why do you think people, especially people in other countries, tend to mock religion? It's already been pointed out in this thread. Why are 90% of scientists non believers in traditional gods? The likelihood of that being a coincidence is tiny. 
 


MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> Where do you draw the conclusion of "essentially your argument is we dont know how x happened, therefore god."


"*Do you even know how many cells are in the human body? Do you understand just how complex we really are? Do you have a clue how long earth has been around?** Life is a subject of complexity. Not just something that just happened. Complex thing like humans, and earth, and the solar system and something far greater than a human being can design. There is far more we DONT KNOW than what WE DO KNOW.*"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

You are in fact saying "I don't know/I can't explain how _____ happened, therefore, God."

Just because *you* can't explain it or don't believe/accept the explanation doesn't make the explanation any less valid, it just makes you wrong/ignorant for not accepting the explanation of rules of reality based on centuries of established practice.



MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> Im done repeating myself. The evidence is for you yourself to find.


Religion - "the evidence is there, you just have to find it for yourself"

Science - "here's the evidence, come test it and *see for yourself*"
 


MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> ...what good is matter if it has no PURPOSE


"good", "purpose" are subjective terms.



MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> In our galaxy , which is god like big, it seems odd we ended up on the rock by a godly big combination of really extremely rare and set of circumstances that just happened to work out to the creation of us and many many other animals...and this all happened spontaniously instead of intelligently...Riiighttt.


Goddamn, biggest appeal to ignorance yet! If you knew even the basics of cosmology you would understand how the universe works. You depreciate the value of centuries of scientific work when you make such a stupid statement. You take your brain completely for granted.



MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> We forgetting its just us on earth? Thats a whole shit ton of creation...thats happening under extreme set of circumstances. The chances that this all happened spontaniously instead of by means of something of a higher intelligent power/deity are so distantly proportioned its laughable to conceive that this all happened by chance, and spontaneously and for some, for the sheer benefit of their not being a all knowing higher deity.


Why has 99.9% of all living organisms become extinct? 

Life didn't happen 'spontaneously', it took an entire sequence of events over a 4.5 billion year time period. How could you conclude 'spontaneous' from that? 

'magic', magic is more likely to you than science. 
 


MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> Find it even harder to fathom that we have a desire to breed for the PURPOSE of saving our species.


Find it as hard to fathom as you want, doesn't mean it's not the case. Do you want your species to go extinct? No? You just proved your own point wrong. 



MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> Seems like a smart idea if your making humans. Particles dont come to gether and create desired purposeful intent to continue its own exsistence. As we know, photons dont have offspring, they just get to share one another without the need nor care of reproduction.


Why would you compare humans to photons, put together some absurd requirement for existing simply for being in existence, conclude they're totally different then *yet again* appeal to ignorance because you can't understand something? I feel safe in saying you've had very little scientific training. 



MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> What be a natural action and purpose to protect are offspring without a God?


Survival.



MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> God is the most complex entity. A purpose filled life is not a product of evolution, random creations, or astronomical chances. Its the product of a all knowing creator-designer.
> 
> YOUR WELCOME!


Deriving a purpose for ones life is the responsibility of the individual. We give our own lives meaning and purpose. Believers can't even agree on a purpose they supposedly get from God. The purpose you think you get from your religion is an illusion eluding your intellect. It's false, and every time you go to work on Sunday or commit any other myriad of sins you admit it. 

Religion is a convenient way for people to follow a set path. Atheism requires courage, strength, honesty and passion. You have to want to *know* the truth, even if it means it hurts. 

Good luck on your angry religious conquest to convince non believers the flaws in science using... science..


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## Heisenberg (Dec 3, 2011)

The particular God someone worships tends to have a great deal to do with the geographical and chronological location you were born in. This is a point that has been demonstrated quite conclusively. When and where you were born very much shapes the specific certitude you are likely to have in God. Since circumstances of birth are random, this strongly suggests a significant if not key component to the idea of God is culture. Virtually all cultures have creation myths, resurrection myths, flood myths, ect. It seems likely that the idea of God is simply our brains tendency to apply intentional agents to what we perceive as meaningful patters. Intentional agents are also something we can demonstrate and document fairly conclusively. The particulars of those agents are shaped by culture and passed down through history from parents to children. It doesn't matter how absurd the belief is, if the authority figures back it up most of the children will believe it. All of this represents several strong lines of evidence to suggest that man created God, or more aptly the specifics of God, rather than the other way around.


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 3, 2011)

...is there a framework behind science that can been approached with the 5 senses? Science is thought after the effect, I believe. So what is behind thought? Or, were you born a container with 'x' amount of info and capability that will eventually disintegrate?


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## cannabineer (Dec 3, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...is there a framework behind science that can been approached with the 5 senses? Science is thought after the effect, I believe. So what is behind thought? Or, were you born a container with 'x' amount of info and capability that will eventually disintegrate?


I don't know if this is to point, but science is necessarily restricted to what we can reproducibly sense. Much of the history of science is the technical history of sensory-extension engines, from Galileo's telescope to the magnificent machined piles at CERN. cn


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 3, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> I don't know if this is to point, but science is necessarily restricted to what we can reproducibly sense. Much of the history of science is the technical history of sensory-extension engines, from Galileo's telescope to the magnificent machined piles at CERN. cn


...tanks 

But the framework looks to me like all the thinking that is going on. Even on a computational level, we see the effects and assume that the rest is just 'on'. (imhumbleo  )


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## mindphuk (Dec 3, 2011)

MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> MindPhuk, Let give this subject some much due transparency
> 
> The Clarification :
> "*Lack of any empirical evidence of a deity is excellent reason to consider the possibility that it is a man-derived myth"*- Keyword here is possibility. Your making a possibility a conclusion of no god. This needs to be expanded upon more. In the event that there is a lack of any empirical evidence of a deity that would in deed be a solid reason to consider MANY POSSIBILITIES...NOT justThat of "its just a man-derived myth", as your implying. Thats a materalistic train of thought. Human Life, and our Universe are extremely complex subjects. Way beyond the average humans mental capacities.


If I told you I had an invisible dragon in my garage that could breath heatless fire, I bet you would like some evidence of that before you believe I'm making it up. However, my dragon, although I say it is real, does not leave any evidence of it's existence for you to find. Of the many possibilities, how likely is it that there really is no dragon and I'm delusional or just making it up? 
The claim of a god has the same problem. We understand why ancient, superstitious people would anthropomorphize things in nature and create gods. I would bet you are atheistic toward the pagan gods of Greece or Norway, so why should I treat the biblical god any different? Especially seeing the transformation from early Canaanite desert deities, I should be able to safely say that the probability is very high that Yahweh is as much of a myth as Odin and Thor. 


> You are very misinformed if you believe their is no evidence to a deity, especially a divine intellectual creator of a religion. I am not sure how you are so close minded on that.


In fact I am quite informed and very open minded. I have yet to see any of the evidence claimed by theists to be compelling enough for me to believe. 


> The Key to finding the truth in life is accepting the reality that everything you believe could in fact be incorrect. You seem interested in this subject and I greatly recommend you apply yourself into some sincere research of both sides of the argument and make a choice of your own, for yourself.


I actually do accept that most everything I believe can be incorrect. The question is do you? Are you willing to be convinced by reasoned argument that there might not be a god? My guess is that your mind is already made up and you won't accept anything that we say. BTW, that is the definition of close minded. 



> Naturalistic Explanation?As in explanation of absolute facts? Please inform me of what gibberish that is.So you logically believe we could naturally conceive a higher power, on the sole power of own species. Quantum Physics shows you can not make/take something from nothing. Most religion's agree on one very unique belief that gives more prudence to Divine intervention as the only other logical option. IN THE BEGINNING THERE WAS NOTHING. Especially in consideration of the sheer size of the creation we are considering can not, has not, and will never have a exact defintion.


Naturalistic explanations mean that we have good explanations of how the solar system was created and how humans came to be by purely natural means. Why do you say that's gibberish? 
What kind of gibberish does the rest of this paragraph mean? 


> *
> You will never find something your not looking for. **FOR THE LAST TIME....DONT BELIEVE ANYONE, ESPECIALLY ME, THINK FOR YOURSELF....BUT NOT AT THE COST OF TREADING ON THE WILL, OR FAITH OF OTHERS! ----This sums up how I feel about this argument.*


I do think for myself. However, you are responding with some amount of certainty on this subject. I think it is reasonable to ask you to present this evidence you keep speaking of. 


> Where do you draw the conclusion of "essentially your argument is we dont know how x happened, therefore god."


I think Pad explained it sufficiently.


> You are Insufficiently thinking things through completely.


No, I think that's what you are doing.


> You twisted my words of THERE IS FAR MORE WE DONT KNOW THAN THAT OF WHAT WE DO KNOW to fit your pathetic attempt to sling trollish behavior and change my words to " we dont know how it happend, therefore god. I never said that anywhere in my above text. in fact its one of the smallest sentences in the post. The other being
> 
> *YOUR WELCOME!!!!!!!!!( shortest sentence) MINDLESS(WAD) is aFUCK (WAD)!* Changing words is really fun if you are looking to have a moment of immature thinking and behavior


 I did not insult you or call you names. How about if you quit with the personal attacks?


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## tyler.durden (Dec 3, 2011)

Wow, MMMB. Your posts were chum to this subforum's elite atheist debate sharks. You got to hear from Pad, Heis, BB, MP and cn! They can collectively teach you a LOT if you let them. Can't wait for your counterpoints, there's nothing good on right now. I'm going to go clone some plants...


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## olylifter420 (Dec 3, 2011)

What is there to teach? There is nothing to learn except about peoples' personal beliefs about our beliefs. The science has always been there.

This forum has given me a lot of insight, so much so, that one day in the future, i wouldnt mind running for a rep position for the district i live in. 

I think the injustices caused by some politicians are outrageous and although i am a believer, i believe my position will be unbiased because what i have learned here. Thanks guys.


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 2, 2022)

I'm so glad to see how many pages of responses there are to this, probably my most successful thread ever =)


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## Dreaming1 (Sep 2, 2022)

Definitely messed up a lot of stuff, but the improvement they made to kinky sex is immeasurable.


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## Antidote Man (Sep 4, 2022)

They want you to forgive, for the wrongs that are done to you, without ever addressing the very wrongs and working to change them. because they themselves are wrong. the scary truth - we can only do wrong. if we do right to one we are doing wrong to another. lets face it though, god hates us. all of us. what kind of world has he left us? the proof should be clear. I personally believe that we exist because God got lonely. Christians believe in hell because they've built one and now they're trying to put us all in it. Like most of us already aren't. On top this, they've spent 2000 years turning time around to work by a calendar that worships the brutal death of a Jew, who supposedly died for everyone's sins (and mostly, so Christians can get away with doing what they want), while most of them blame Jews as money hoarders and sneaks. but they worship one. if that isn't a complete contradiction I don't know what is. As for Christian time keeping, I can't get a goddamned grocery store in my fairly large city to stay open later than 11pm or a restaurant to open up on Sunday because of these evil fuckers. They will ultimately be proved wrong to the point that the human brain won't be able to hold the thought of their righteousness. Believing in the holiness of Christ will be like walking into a stone wall, nobody will do it...


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## StonedGardener (Sep 5, 2022)

massah said:


> oh and Christianity also stopped the advancement of science...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also cause of " Dark Ages ". Catholic school ( up to 6th grade) certainly didn't enhance my life...I'm still pissed off about.......I remember when very young, riding home after school many times on my bike through the alleys balling my eyes out ......mean fucking nuns would really pitch into me


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## MICHI-CAN (Sep 13, 2022)

I think true bible reading Christians are what we all should emulate in the compassion their verses repeatedly try to instill. 

And the hypo-christrian politicians are making the world worse from the beginning of papal ordinance. 

Wish christian were forced to read the book. I was.


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## StonedGardener (Sep 13, 2022)

MICHI-CAN said:


> I think true bible reading Christians are what we all should emulate in the compassion their verses repeatedly try to instill.
> 
> And the hypo-christrian politicians are making the world worse from the beginning of papal ordinance.
> 
> Wish christian were forced to read the book. I was.


YIKES ! 
........and wtf is a " hypo-christian " ? I'm slow.


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## MICHI-CAN (Sep 13, 2022)

StonedGardener said:


> YIKES !
> ........and wtf is a " hypo-christian " ? I'm slow.


Hypocrite. Or hell bent on them adjudicating rule over the land. I would include that hippo sized woman who cries oh lord every Monday pushing her trash out as well. Is a wonderful world.


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## Billy the Mountain (Sep 13, 2022)

Satire from The Borowitz Report

Lauren Boebert Claims Nineteenth Amendment Does Not Exist Because God Gave Moses Only Ten Amendments

*By Andy Borowitz*
September 12, 2022

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—As critics questioned whether she knew what the Nineteenth Amendment is, Rep. Lauren Boebert stated that “the Nineteenth Amendment doesn’t exist because God gave Moses only Ten Amendments.”

The Colorado lawmaker said that people who believe that there are nineteen amendments “need to turn off their NPR and pick up the good ol’ Bible.”

“God stood up on that mountain and said, ‘Here you go, Moses, my top Ten Amendments,’ ” she said. “Where are these bozos getting the idea that there are nineteen?”

Boebert said that God gave Moses only Ten Amendments “because more than that would be hard to chisel into the tablets and whatnot,” she said.

“If you had nineteen amendments, Moses would have had to carve ten on one tablet and eight on the other,” she said.


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## StonedGardener (Sep 18, 2022)

Religious cults, like Catholicism has really put the fucking whack on this beautiful ball that's on a journey some-fing-where ( I'm sure some have noticed that I just love that inter-fix " f'ing "..........not aware of others , must be more ). I have two bigtime Christians living down the road......so pious.....such fucking pricks and mean ! I swear , the harder those very confused ass-wipes pound that Bible , the worse they are ! Many Christians around here like eveywhere.....I just shake my f'ing head when they turn down a starving , freezing animal in the dead of winter ( probably abandoned). My father never participated in that realm........he called the hypocrites " Holy Rollers " , assholes all week then holier-than-thou on Sunday. I spared my children the brainwash but always encouraged them to examine all of them. We are freethinkers.......(not cattle).......not " herdable".............original thought takes precedent, of course ! Don't even get me going on those fucking warped missionaries who " spread the word " and turn people's beliefs and world upside-f'ing-down ! ( dont peel my ass , I am aware they have provided much needed assistance ( food/water etc.) .......then they gotta fuck it all up with their religious bullshit jibber-jabber !
.


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## Antidote Man (Oct 15, 2022)

If Jesus died for our sins', and not accepting Jesus as god is blasphemy, a sin, then did Jesus die for us to not accept him as god?


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## Spiveysrevenge (Oct 16, 2022)

Christians say secks is bad and then those hardcore fundamentalist families are the ones with like 10+ kids.did ya really need ten kids? was each and every one of those a procreative attempt? be fruitful and multiply eh? here's a question are you allowed to enjoy procreative sex or if you're making a baby do you just pump and dump in 30 sec like those porn ads and any sensual enjoyment whatsoever is taboo?

I don't know these things anymore I haven't been to church or cracked a bible in like 14 years. I thought I was atheist for awhile but I like buddhism on a lot of things which although not a religion is a school of thought. Or maybe I just don't like to think of it as religion. I don't like thinking of myself as a religious person.


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## simpleleaf (Oct 16, 2022)

Child raising. The bible says (paraphrased) to chasten children with a rod and that they won't die (corporal punishment is practiced throughout the world, although some countries have outlawed it). Science tells us that using physical punishment with kids causes lifelong problems: lowered self-esteem, mental health issues including depression, more aggressiveness and anger.


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## Rob Roy (Jan 1, 2023)

Christianity has reinforced the idea that humans should obey a hypocritical "authority" that violates the very things the authority says are bad.

It's like there's a god complex phenomenom at work or something.


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## xtsho (Jan 1, 2023)




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## StonedGardener (Jan 1, 2023)

Rob Roy said:


> Christianity has reinforced the idea that humans should obey a hypocritical "authority" that violates the very things the authority says are bad.
> 
> It's like there's a god complex phenomenom at work or something.


It fucked things up pretty damn good ...still is , the " Old Manipulation Of The Masses Routine ! " . Quite a successful cult , f'ing enduring , however 
waning . I prefer a " freethinker " . I never made my kids " run that gauntlet " of dooky " !


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## Bongoloid (Jan 1, 2023)

Beefbisquit said:


> Just because it's more comfortable for you to believe that matter has purpose doesn't make it so.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree our purpose is survival.
Einstein
Pascal
Galileo
Mendel
Marconi
Newton
Pasteur
Planck
faraday
Copernicus
Boyle
Kelvin and many more

All believed in God. Being scientists,I wonder why.


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## StonedGardener (Jan 2, 2023)

Bongoloid said:


> I agree our purpose is survival.
> Einstein
> Pascal
> Galileo
> ...


Copernicus.... 1400's , I think he " kicked the ball off , heliocentric model vs earth was center of universe that the church advocated......


Bongoloid said:


> I agree our purpose is survival.
> Einstein
> Pascal
> Galileo
> ...


I'll bet just like all the hundreds of members in Congress , not an atheist registered among them. 


StonedGardener said:


> It fucked things up pretty damn good ...still is , the " Old Manipulation Of The Masses Routine ! " . Quite a successful cult , f'ing enduring , however
> waning . I prefer a " freethinker " . I never made my kids " run that gauntlet " of dooky " !


Not too many things that twist my guts like religion.....everyone peddling their brand of horseshit. Went to St. VIncent's de Paul school and church......still pissed off about it.....my as well been in a Medieval setting What a f'ing waste of precious time. Ya know what really gets my gag-reflex going.......fucking missionaries.....they covered the globe spreading that poison! Just takes a small group of fuck-ups to get the ball rolling. Swallowing all that shit is f'ing astounding to me. However , if it gets you through the day and night, you're very lucky your brain is so small.


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## StonedGardener (Jan 2, 2023)

Bongoloid said:


> I agree our purpose is survival.
> Einstein
> Pascal
> Galileo
> ...


Copernicus.... 1400's , I think he " kicked the ball off , heliocentric model vs earth was center of universe that the church advocated......


Bongoloid said:


> I agree our purpose is survival.
> Einstein
> Pascal
> Galileo
> ...


I'll bet !just like all the hundreds of members in Congress , not an atheist registered among them


StonedGardener said:


> It fucked things up pretty damn good ...still is , the " Old Manipulation Of The Masses Routine ! " . Quite a successful cult , f'ing enduring , however
> waning . I prefer a " freethinker " . I never made my kids " run that gauntlet " of dooky " !


Not too many things that twist my guts like religion.....everyone peddling their brand of horseshit. Went to St. VINCENTS de Paul school and church......still pissed off about it.....


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## Prawn Connery (Sunday at 8:26 AM)

Bongoloid said:


> I agree our purpose is survival.
> Einstein
> Pascal
> Galileo
> ...


And most of their "gods" resemble nothing found in the Bible.

Just because someone is not an atheist does not mean they believe in an anthropomorphic diety.

Einstein was agnostic. Planck was not a Christian. Galileo faked it to preserve his own life. Pascal never won his Wager. Copernicus contradicted the Bible. Etc.

Our purpose is not survival, it is experience.


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