# LUCAS FORMULA - Hydroponic Grow Journal



## GreenThumbSucker (Sep 4, 2009)

*This will be my first true grow journal. *

I have been growing off and on since the 1980s, but didn't begin toying with Hydroponics until last fall. I have successfully grown three crops hydroponically. I believe that I have the basics down enough to do a journal that you and I can learn from.
*
Here are some factoids for my grow:*



I will be growing 'up to' 15 plants this grow (more on this later.)
I will be using a commercially made, 'Ebb and Grow,' ebb and flow system
My room is 4'x10' completely papered by Mylar
I will be using 3 x 1000 watt sodium lamps for flowering
I will use the LUCAS FORMULA for flowering, but not for the vegetative stage
I am growing in a half finished basement which gets cold in cool weather
I am using tap water, last time I checked it, was 23 PPM  right out of the tap
I am a legal Medical grower

*Short term do list:*


Clean up room/equipment from last grow
Rebuild room
acquire clones

As it sits now, my grow room is a train wreck. I finished my last grow in mid July and haven't done much in the way of cleaning up the mess.

Last night I took the old hydroton from the previous grow and cleaned it out. It still had the roots (half rotten) from last July mixed in it. I carefully pulled out the root mass and banged it against the sides of a five gallon bucket to knock loose the hydroton. As it fell into the bucket, I picked out as much root as could. I then put a screen over the top of the five gallon bucket and put a hose into the hydroton and let it run for about half an hour. Whatever is left of the roots rise to the top and stick to the screen. Doing this gets about 99% of the leftover root bits out of the hydroton.

I put the hydroton back into the grow buckets and let them dry overnight. This morning I filled a five gallon pail with three gallons of water and put 7 tablespoons of 35% H2O2 in. I dipped each bucket this solution 5 or 6 times to kill any virus', mould, or bacteria that are still lurking.

Last crop I grew 12 plants and last night it took me about 3 hours to clean all that hydroton. This will be the second time I've reused this same batch of hydroton.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Sep 4, 2009)

This morning I started to rebuild the room. It isn't actually a 'rebuild' but I'm extending it. The previous grow room was 8 x 4 feet. I am extending it to 10 x 4 feet. I am also redoing the plastic on the door where I enter the room so that light does not escape when I enter the room. 

On the previous grow the controller bucket was in the room with the plants. This time I will have it outside the room so it isn't in the way. The problem I had with the controller in the room with the plants is when they got big, it made it hard to access the timer and I would accidentally bump the timer and screw up the settings without realizing it.

I had planned to begin the actual grow last Monday August 31st, but the dispensary where I get my medical cuttings hired some bozo as a gardener and he killed half of the mothers. He 'forgot' to turn the exhaust fan back on after doing some work in the grow-room. Imagine a room with 200 4 foot tall mother plants, needless to say it had at least 20 1000 watt halides running in it, very hot and a very stupid mistake. This is sad because they had 186 different strains to choose from. I had pre-ordered 11 white widows and four blackberry # 2 cuttings three weeks prior, but because of the idiot wrecking everything they gave them out to needy growers. I called them back two days ago and they took about 1000 cutting from forty different strains on Monday. They believe they will be rooted by next Wednesday and because I had a pre-order, they will still honour it and give me first dibs. They cannot guarantee what strain I get, though. We will see. 

In the meantime I have a bit more work to do. Pictures coming soon.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Sep 4, 2009)

Hmmmmmm, This is the mess from my last crop.

The reservoir barrel needs a little cleaning, you think?
Thank god for Hydrogen Peroxide!!
I wont be putting the ebb and grow together until I know exactly how many cuttings Im getting. It came with 12 units so I splurged and bought an expansion kit which adds six more buckets. 

I will put my new lamp together tonight, with my new parabolic hood. Last crop I had 12 plants with two 1000 watt sodium bulbs and some of the perimeter plants were smaller. 3k watts in 40 ft sq should give the kick I need! 75 watts per square foot..


----------



## jcdws602 (Sep 4, 2009)

*I am using tap water, last time I checked it, was 23 PPM  right out of the tap*

Damn I wish my tap was that clean....my tap is 740 ppm......sucks about the clones....I f n hate cleaning hydroton..............Check in later for more updates


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Sep 14, 2009)

jcdws602 said:


> *I am using tap water, last time I checked it, was 23 PPM  right out of the tap*
> Damn I wish my tap was that clean....my tap is 740 ppm......sucks about the clones....I f n hate cleaning hydroton..............Check in later for more updates


Wow, 740 ppm. That is just about nuts. Yeah, I hate cleaning hydroton too but I finally got it all done.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Sep 14, 2009)

OK, update time. The clones from my medical dispensary finally rooted so I went and picked some up. All the ones they had looked really sad with a few exceptions. 

No matter, I was the first in line so I got first pick of the best ones. I got six skunk #11, five AK47 and four Dynamite. 

15 total plants in a 5 x 10 room. Should be interesting.

They are very small cuttings BUT they all have nice perky little root systems on them. I will idle them for a week at about 300 ppm, including B1 and some rooting stuff that came with my ebb and grow, "Root 66".

I expect to see a few roots coming out of the bottoms of the pots in a week or ten days, as soon as I see roots on most of them, I will crank the PPM up to 500, then up 100 every day til it is at 800 and leave it there til they are ready to flower.

I am lazy so I am using the Technaflora stuff that came along with the ebb and grow for vegetative. I Dont feel like going out to the grow store for some of the 'Grow' formula. When I start to flower I will switch to the Lucas Formula.

I will take some pictures tonight or tomorrow.

Peace!


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Sep 18, 2009)

Ok, I have some pictures finally. I have had the cuttings idling at about 250 ppm for the last five days. They are getting some small but new growth on all but one, and they are looking healthier than when I first got them. 

I changed out the reservoir yesterday, day four, and they seem to like it. I pulled back some of the hydroton on a few plants and I can see that the roots are spreading nicely out of the rockwool. I might start cranking up the nutes a little earlier than I was expecting to. Maybe in a couple of days. Good news for me given I started everything two weeks later than planned.

I am flooding twice a day, once when the light goes on and once 12 hours later. The lights are on an 18/6 schedule right now.

PPM: 250
PH: 5.7
Room temp: 78F
Water temp: 68

I have all 15 plants under a 1000 watt MH. I am going to wire up for the third lamp next week, too lazy to do it this week. What can I say

There will be 3k of HPS. Two of the HPS have the best bulb that the hydro store sells, and the third one has a cheap assed sylvania bulb. I am saving up for another good HPS bulb but the cheap one will work until then. I have a nice new parabolic reflector for my newest lamp. I also put up fresh mylar on the walls.

For this grow there will be looooots of light!!


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Sep 20, 2009)

The PH has been climbing obscenely fast the last few days, going from 5.5 to 6.5 in 24 hours. I started checking every six hours or so knocking it back down.

I added some hydrogen peroxide yesterday and this morning when I checked the vitals, the PH had settled down and was at 5.6. Must have had some sort of pathogen or fungus in the system. Added more H2O2 this morning, I will check it again tonight. I will add a tablespoon every day until I change out the solution next weekend. That should kill whatever the hell was driving the PH up.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Sep 21, 2009)

My PH has stabilized. I lifted a few of my pots up and low and behold, roots coming from every one I checked:

Time to crank up the nutes.

I cranked them to about 550

PPM: 550
PH: 5.7
Room Temp: 74
Water Temp: 68

I expect them to take off within the next couple days

Once they take off I will start notching the PPM up until it is at 800 PPM then keep it there

Woohoo, exactly one week from retards to roots

Questions?? Comments??


----------



## doniawon (Sep 21, 2009)

what do you think you will yield??


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Sep 21, 2009)

doniawon said:


> what do you think you will yield??


On my last grow I did 12 plants. Five of them turned out to be so infested with bananas (male flowers) at about half way through flowering that I pulled them from the room.

The remaining seven plants produced 2 lbs + 16 grams. This was with two 1000 watt HPS. This time Im growing 15 plants with three 1000 watt HPS so I expect a bit more per plant.

Four pounds is a pretty safe bet. I am *hoping* to get closer to six pounds. Anything over four pounds is a bonus, in my view.


----------



## doniawon (Sep 22, 2009)

damn 5 pounds with 15 plants and 3 g's of light.. how long you vegging?? these plants are gonna be huge


----------



## Smokiethebear (Sep 22, 2009)

Ive been looking for someone useing a ebb and grow....ill be watching


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Sep 23, 2009)

doniawon said:


> damn 5 pounds with 15 plants and 3 g's of light.. how long you vegging?? these plants are gonna be huge


I will veg for about three more weeks, less if need be. I will get them about 24 inches tall then flower them.

Today I changed my flood schedule. I had been flooding twice a day while they spread their roots. Once at 6 AM when the lights come on and once at 6 PM. The lights go off at midnight. Because they now have spread their roots, I programmed the ebb and grow to flood them three times a day. Once at six AM, once at noon and once at six PM. They have started showing new growth since I turned up the nutes yesterday.

I still have one plant that is basically retarded. The other 14 are all looking good and are about evenly sized.


----------



## doniawon (Sep 23, 2009)

i use ebb and gro with the lucas formula also, its a great system. 
cant wait to see you trees...


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Sep 24, 2009)

Time for some new pictures.

The buckets have been showing roots out the bottom for a couple days and I have turned the PPM up to 600ish. The plants have started growing. I have one halide light and I dont want to add a sodium right now so I made some panels with Mylar on them and boxed everything in. This way I dont waste any light and the plants on the perimeter get lots of reflected light.

Tomorrow I change the solution. 

PPM 600
PH 5.7
Temp 78
Solution temp 68


----------



## MonsterRobot (Sep 24, 2009)

Looking good! How do you cool your lights? I run 3 1000w in my flower room which is a DR240 (8'x8') and it gets so hot that I have to use AC... It is getting colder outside now so hopefully that will change and I can ditch the AC but we will see...


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Sep 24, 2009)

MonsterRobot said:


> Looking good! How do you cool your lights? I run 3 1000w in my flower room which is a DR240 (8'x8') and it gets so hot that I have to use AC... It is getting colder outside now so hopefully that will change and I can ditch the AC but we will see...


That is a very good question. I am growing in an unheated basement and I draw air from a room that gets very cold. Last winter I ran a couple of crops with 2k of sodium with no heat problems at all. This summer I ran two lamps and did run into issues. 

I probabally wont add the third HPS until about the 2nd week of flowering which is about a month from now. By then my basement will be very cold. If I have heat problems then I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

I have dealt with problems like that by asking here on the forum until I find an answer that works out. Pretty much everything I have learned about Hydroponics is from this and cannabisculture.com

Early next year I will get vented hoods for all of my lamps. That will eliminate that problem and allow me to start messing with CO2.


----------



## MonsterRobot (Sep 24, 2009)

Nice. I run cool tubes and that takes a lot of the heat away, but it still gets hot in that tent... I am in the process of making a bigger flowering room that will include CO2... pretty stoked about that but I have to do some more research first... While running CO2 you can have higher temps so I probably won't need the AC anymore once that happens...


----------



## aliciasu (Sep 25, 2009)

im doin 2 clones of blue cheese 2 puere gold and 2 blue venom(blueberryxwhite widow) in 5x4x8 room im using one 1000 watt hps for flowerin and i find out tha spraying the plant whit mineral water makes the temperature go down up to ten degrees


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Sep 26, 2009)

Update time:

PH: 5.6
PPM: 780 
Res TEMP: 67
Air TEMP: 76
LIGHT: 1k MH

OK, my plants have taken off nicely. As reported earlier, I am using the Technaflora kit that came with my Ebb and Grow for vegetative. I refilled my reservoir two days ago and in the middle of adding back fertilizer, ran out of the 'boost' part which supplies nitrogen for vegetative. My PPM was at about 270, so what I did was bring it back up to 750 by including some of my GH flora clone micro and Bloom at 1:1 ratio. I am now running two brands at once, the plants seem to love it.

I pay 20$ a gallon for the GH clone that I get at a local hydroponic shop. I went in a couple of weeks ago to resupply and there were a bunch of strange people there sitting around. As soon as I walked in they started trying to get me to admit that I grow marijuana, and for me to sell it to them. I informed them that I am a legal medical grower and I do not sell what I grow, and if I grow over what I am allowed by law I donate it to my dispensary.

Upon hearing this they all seemed dissapointed. Obvoiusly it was some sort of sting setup. The owners of the place must have gotten busted and let the cops use their store to entrap people. I am legal, and I could still buy stuff there if I chose, but I wont be going back. Once this generic Flora clone is all used up, I start buying the real GH flora stuff. 

Here are some pictures:
GH flora clone that I use, payed 15$ a gallon for years, recently they raised price to 20$, still a bargain

My plants have started growing nicely and are beginning to fill out the pots.

My retarted mutant has succumbed to the magic of hydroponics and is rapidly putting out new healthy growth.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Sep 28, 2009)

Well, it has been two weeks since the clones went into the system. The first week all I did was idle them at low PPM. This last week I have cranked the ferts up.

PPM: 700
Solution temp: 67
PH: 5.6
Air temp: 78

My Skunk #11's are the most robust of the plants, putting out very stout side branches and they are all growing relatively even sized. The AK47s are just about the same size as the skunks but my retarded clone is among that group. My Dynamites are hands down the bushiest and will have a lot of buds on them. 

The size of the plants is pretty even throughout the clones. This is attributed to letting them spread roots before turning up the nutrients. The amount of growth above ground is proportional to the size of the root system below ground.

By tomorrow many of the clones will be close to the width of the pots. Not bad considering they were an inch high and 2 inches wide a week ago. They have a very tight distance between the internodes which makes me quite pleased. I want to bend them as little as necessary. It is looking like it will be about ten more days before I can flip them. When they fill the room about 2/3 full, I will turn them over.

Since I refilled my res four days ago, the PH has not moved from 5.7. The PPM has remained just about the same every day too. This is nice, really havent had to do anything at all but check on them once a day or so. When everything is going perfect it can be almost boring, just taking their vitals every day.

I added about five gallons of water tonight and one tablespoon of micro, This knocked the PPM from about 780 down to 700. I will see how they react to that. This brought the PH up to 5.9 so I knocked it back down to 5.6.

Here are some updated pictures:


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Oct 4, 2009)

Update time. It has been six days since my last update. The clones are now growing full blast. In the last six days they have quadrupled in size. 

My nutrients are a little unorthodox. I went out and bought a quart of GH flora 'Grow' and am using it with the Grow part from the BC kit. The plants seem to love this combination. 

I have begun giving them one tablespoon per day of H2o2 35%. I am doing this to help oxygenate the solution a bit better. The plants really took off when I started doing this. When plants are small you really have to be careful with hydrogen peroxide because they burn very easily. It is best to err on the side of caution. 

Here are some stats:

PH: 5.7
PPM: 805
Water temp: 66
Room temp: 73
Humidity: 55%
Days in system: 20

I have suffered no bumps in the road this grow, everything is going very smoothly. With the speed that the plants are growing now, It looks like I might be able to flip them in about 5 or 6 days.

I have my reservoir outside the grow room in an unheated area. This should knock my water temperature down to the 50s - low 60s come late October. That is one nice thing about this ebb and grow, the ability to have the reservoir far from the growroom.

Here are some pictures, as you can see they are growing quite agressively now.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Oct 9, 2009)

Im going to flip them tonight. I just changed out the reservoir to Lucas formula. I took out my MH bulb and switched to HPS. I also added two more 1000 watt HPS. I will go and get some more AA batteries tonight and take some more pictures. Everything is going smooth sailing.

Heat control will be an adventure. Just in time though, starting to cool off considerabally outside.

Questions? Comments? Suggestions?


----------



## trouble9039 (Oct 10, 2009)

I am running the lucas in my SOG and so far so good! 





GreenThumbSucker said:


> Im going to flip them tonight. I just changed out the reservoir to Lucas formula. I took out my MH bulb and switched to HPS. I also added two more 1000 watt HPS. I will go and get some more AA batteries tonight and take some more pictures. Everything is going smooth sailing.
> 
> Heat control will be an adventure. Just in time though, starting to cool off considerabally outside.
> 
> Questions? Comments? Suggestions?


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Oct 12, 2009)

Days flowering: 3
Room Temp: 80
Solution Temp: 60
Lighting: 3 x 1k
PPM: 1280
PH: 5.7

I am changing out my reservoir every 5-7 days. The ebb and grow has a 55 gallon reservoir that I am running at about 30 gallons. The PPM is rising very slowly, about 15 ppm per day. This tells me that the plants are using roughly the same amount of water as fertilizer. This is what I normally see when using the Lucas Formula.


I am now three days into flowering. The room is very bright with 3 x 1000w HPS.

Will take a few more pictures tomorrow then post them. The wife was smelling them upstairs at about 2 AM, so I will get some more ona blocks for smell. I have one going in the room now but will use as many as it takes to manage the odor.

I have a 465 CFM exaust fan running up in on corner with only one intake hole on the opposite bottom side of the growroom. This seems to keep the room cool enough. The room is holding at about 80 degrees. The air outside the room (where I'm drawing it from) is about 60 degrees. I have an oscillating fan with the base removed hanging upside down from the ceiling from a bungee cord. It twists and turns somewhat randomly and does a good job of keeping the air stirred up. I have two Honeywell turbo fans on the floor blowing between the plants.

My reservoir solution is getting cold. I have a floating thermometer and the solution temperature is right at 60 degrees. Once the temps get down into the 30s and 40s the temp in my res should start to hold steady in the low 50s. 

I intentionally put the reservoir outside the growroom so it would get cold. Cold water holds a lot more oxygen than warmer water. The plants will love the cold solution and it will reflect this in the bud development.


----------



## Smokiethebear (Oct 13, 2009)

Everything looks real nice cant wait to see them start packing on the weight...I do have one suggestion I think its time to step up the odor control to carbon filter or an ozone generator


----------



## wowtestdrive (Oct 13, 2009)

This is looking great so far man, glad to hear its been so smooth.

Its cool to watch someone with the ebb and grow system because i was looking at it for myself. Was comparing that and the multi-flow. You have any probs with that system?

Keep up the good work man! If you run into more heat problems just gota upgrade to a bigger fan, 465cfm seems pretty small for that size of room and you have plenty of cool air for intake, but for now.."if it aint broken..."


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Oct 14, 2009)

wowtestdrive said:


> If you run into more heat problems just gota upgrade to a bigger fan, 465cfm seems pretty small for that size of room and you have plenty of cool air for intake, but for now.."if it aint broken..."


I actually have a second 265 CFM exaust fan already installed in the room. If it gets hotter than 85 degrees, which I anticipate it will once they really get huge, I will turn it on too.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Oct 14, 2009)

PICTURE UPDATE

Ok, here are the pictures I promised. The plants are now five days into bloom and are 4 times bigger than the last pictures ten days ago. The room is almost filled completely. I will have to be clever in how I arrange the plants in the room so they don't crowd too much.

I am keeping the lamps higher than I normally do and the plants along the walls seem to respond better. Previous crops when the lights were as low as possible, the middle plants got way bigger than ones along the sides. THis time I have the lights about 20 - 24 inches over the plants and growth is a lot more even. Getting more reflected light off the mylar also which helps the plants along the sides.

These plants are growing way faster than I expected. I am adding one tablespoon of H2O2 every night for extra oxygen in the solution. Last night the solution temperature was 59 degrees which to me is awesome.

Here are some pictures from last night.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Oct 14, 2009)

wowtestdrive said:


> Its cool to watch someone with the ebb and grow system because i was looking at it for myself. Was comparing that and the multi-flow. You have any probs with that system?.


The Ebb and Grow is a very forgiving system to use. With the size of the reservoir the PPM and PH move very slowly from day to day so the system doesnt have to be micromanaged as much as the system I used previously.

One thing, when you lay out the hoses going from bucket to bucket, make sure to add a lot of slack. If you measure the hoses exact length, they kink easily when you move the buckets around. This crop I have about a foot or more of extra hose between buckets and they bend a lot better without kinking. The system comes with a lot of extra hose. My friend is starting to use kink proof garden hose on his system, waiting to see what kind of results he has with that.

The barrel reservoir is connected to the controller by two 1/2 inch hoses. If you have extra hose which you can buy at any hydroponic outlet, you can have the reservoir and controller as far from the room as you want. This is awesome, they can be in a completely different area sealed off from the plants. This allows you to check PH and PPM, add nutes, clean out the system, etc. while the lights are off. You can also place the reservoir barrel in a colder area thus keeping your solution nice and cool. 

The system is very easy to keep clean. I have an extra pump which I use to empty the ebb and grow. I have some clear plastic hose which I connect to the pump and run to a sink on the other end of the basement. I put the pump into the barrel and turn it on and pump it out which takes about 20 minutes. 

When it gets down to the bottom, I turn the pump off and scour the sides and bottom of the barrel with a scrubber sponge and some hydrogen peroxide in water. I then fill the system up about half way and run a flood cycle to rinse out the pots and hydroton. I then pump that water out, and finally refill it and add nutes. This whole process takes about 40 minutes once a week, piece of cake!

One problem I had on the last crop was that I was filling the barrel completely and changing it out every two weeks. A couple of times, right at the last day or two, I would have nutrient deficiencies start showing up. For this reason I started changing the solution every 5-7 days instead of every couple weeks and the growth rate is much better this time.

Because I change out the solution often, I only fill the reservoir up half way. The last few days I let the level in the reservoir get somewhat low. This way when I toss the solution, I'm only tossing out 20 - 25 gallons every week. 

I have a garden hose running to a faucet on the other side of the basement. I use this to fill or top off the reservoir, that way Im not carrying water across the basement.

Hope that all helps!!

Questions? Suggestions? Comments?


----------



## wowtestdrive (Oct 14, 2009)

Wow very detailed post about the Ebb and Grow, think you sold me on it. Thanks man

Instead of keeping the lights higher up have you considered rearranging the buckets around to help keep growth even? Or is it too much of a pain when they are substantial size? Maybe you can get the wifie to help haha . 



GreenThumbSucker said:


> I am adding one tablespoon of H2O2 every night for extra oxygen in the solution.


You just add the tbsp to the 25 gallons or so left in the rez?

Happy growing, Subscribed!


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Oct 15, 2009)

wowtestdrive said:


> You just add the tbsp to the 25 gallons or so left in the rez?


Yes, one tablespoon per day is enough to add extra oxygen to the solution but not enough to burn the plants. This is 35% horticultural or food grade hydrogen peroxide. The hydrogen peroxide dissipates over about 24 hours. It is best to err on the side of caution with H2O2, too much can burn them. Small plants can handle very little H2O2. I have noticed that when I use H2O2 daily, they use up to 30% - 50% more solution.


----------



## MonsterRobot (Oct 15, 2009)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Yes, one tablespoon per day is enough to add extra oxygen to the solution but not enough to burn the plants. This is 35% horticultural or food grade hydrogen peroxide. The hydrogen peroxide dissipates over about 24 hours. It is best to err on the side of caution with H2O2, too much can burn them. Small plants can handle very little H2O2. I have noticed that when I use H2O2 daily, they use up to 30% - 50% more solution.


I use H2O2 also and I have seen many benefits from it... The main thing I see is that my res stays cleaner and I have to clean it less... The plants seem to love it too... You just have to be careful and make sure to wash your hands afterward because that shit will burn you!


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Oct 15, 2009)

MonsterRobot said:


> I use H2O2 also and I have seen many benefits from it... The main thing I see is that my res stays cleaner and I have to clean it less... The plants seem to love it too... You just have to be careful and make sure to wash your hands afterward because that shit will burn you!


Yeah, if your not careful, you feel it about five minutes later! Handle with caution!


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Oct 16, 2009)

*THE LUCAS FORMULA EXPLAINED*

For those who are thinking, 'WTF is the Lucas Formula?'.

(From GrassCity)

General Hydroponics Flora Series Feeding Strategy - Lucas Formula 

G-M-B (Grow-Micro-Bloom) 
0-5-10 - For Vegetative cycle (18/6) 
0-8-16 - For Flowering cycle (12/12) 

The numbers above indicate the number of milliliters (ml) of Flora Grow, Micro or Bloom formulas that I use in one gallon (US Liquid) of nutrients. 

You will notice I dont use any of the Flora Grow formula, do not need to, the Flora "Micro" provides plenty of Nitrogen. 

There are two ways to work with this formula: 

1. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected water solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. After adding back an amount of water equal to the amount of your reservoir capacity you should change the reservoir and put in fresh solution. 

2. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected 100% strength nutrient solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. Continue to use this nutrient solution without dumping the tank unless the PPM rises above acceptable levels. 

Between vegetative and flowering cycles you should dump your nutrients, then flush (possibly with Clearex) to remove salt buildups, then change to the other feeding program. Always shake your GH nutrient bottles before using them! 

For young plants, just transplanted into the hydro setup, give them 50% strength nutrient mix to prevent overfeeding them while their young. Gradually bring up the mix to full strength as they grow over the next few weeks or so. 

The lucas formula is normally intended for use with RO or near 0 PPM water. 

NOTE: The Lucas formula eliminates the need for Epsom salts to correct (Magnesium) Mg deficiencies in most normal feeding programs recommended by manufacturers. Cannabis needs a lot of Magnesium to thrive. 

The Flora Micro is providing the Nitrogen and the Magnesium in the proper balance, thus there is no need for the Grow formula and little or no room under the maximum acceptable ppm limit of 1600 @ 0.7 conversion. 

Calculated EC/TDS levels: 

EC microsiemen: 
0-4-8: 946 µS 
0-5-10: 1184 µS 
0-8-16: 1894 µS 

TDS @ 0.5 conversion: 
0-4-8 = 473 ppm 
0-5-10 = 592 ppm 
0-8-16 = 947 ppm 

TDS @ 0.7 conversion: 
0-4-8 = 663 ppm 
0-5-10 = 829 ppm 
0-8-16 = 1326 ppm 

Addback Calculator - (For Advanced Users) 

Say you were running the 0-8-16 formula, at 0.7 conversion with a 22 gallon res. When you first fill it up, your ppm will be around 1330. 

Now you have been growing for a week, and some of the water has been taken up by the plants, some has evaporated, and now your res is at 947 ppm. You need to get your ppm from 947 to 1330. Here is the equation: 

((target - current) / target) * 8 ml per gallon * res gallons = Flora Micro (ml) double this figure to get Flora Bloom (ml) 

Example: 

((1330 - 947) / 1330) * 8 * 22 
(383 / 1330) * 8 * 22 
0.3 * 8 * 22 = 53 ml Flora Micro 

53 ml Flora Micro, double that and you get 106 ml Flora Bloom. So 53 ml Flora Micro and 106 ml Flora Bloom to add back to your 22 gallon res to get you from 947 to 1330. 

Complicated? Not really. Here is a simplification.

The Lucas Formula uses the General Hydroponics Flora series *WITHOUT the Grow* part of the three part formula. Only the Micro and Bloom parts are used.

*The formula can be simplified as thus:* If you are using HID lighting (HPS or MH) the GH micro is used at this ratio:

*1:2* that is o*ne part Micro* to* two parts Bloom.*

This ratio is used at 1300 PPM throughout the whole grow. The PPM can drift anywhere between 1150 PPM and 1400 PPM and still be acceptable. When you top off your reservoir, always aim for about 1300 PPM. Keep zeroing in on that number.

From my experience the PPM stays remarkably stable. When I fill my reservoir, I set the PPM to be about 1250 because it usually drifts upward somewhat. Over a 3 day period it drifts to about 1325 without topping off. The Lucas also keeps your PH very stable. I tend to micromanage my PH so whenever it hits 5.8 I will knock it back down to 5.5ish. The extra Magnesium in the Micro makes it unnecessary to use CalMag during flowering. The lucas formula is cheap, simple, elegant, and it stabilizes the PPM and PH.

Here is the original 'Ask Lucas' thread which has an exhaustive question and answer session with the originator of the formula, this is a very good source of info wether you are using the Lucas Formula or not.

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=892

Questions, Comments, Suggestions?


----------



## wowtestdrive (Oct 16, 2009)

Heh yeah I had to look up what that was the other day. How do you think that compares to the technaflora nutes (assuming you use all of the nutes included in their recipe for success)?


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Oct 17, 2009)

wowtestdrive said:


> Heh yeah I had to look up what that was the other day. How do you think that compares to the technaflora nutes (assuming you use all of the nutes included in their recipe for success)?


I used the technaflora kit that came with the ebb and grow just because I was cheap and didn't want it to go to waste. The vegetative growth I got out of the kit seemed fine to me. I ran out of the Boost part of the technaflora kit really quick but realized that it was basically the same as the Grow part of the GH flora three part, so I substituted Grow and had good results. 

One difference I noticed using the GH grow with the TechnaFlora grow was that it stabilized the PH like nothing I've ever seen before. It stayed at a perfect 5.7 for four days without adding PH down.

I didn't use about 3/4 of the recipe kit, most of it is garbage, in my opinion. Many hydroponic companies want you to use 6 or 8 different products, most of which are unproven and not fertilizer.

The only supplements that I use are B1 for reducing transplant shock and Hydrogen Peroxide for cleaning and adding oxygen.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Oct 19, 2009)

Update:

Been a few days since last update.

PPM: 1300
PH: 5.6
Solution temp: 63
Room temp: 78
Days since flower: 10

Well, I am enjoying some very even growth. My plants have pretty much tripled in size since I flipped them. The room is packed to the gills but each plant has a nice space of its own. From what I see this is going to be a huge crop.

My reservoir is cold. Solution temp has been right around 60 degrees since I flipped them. We are in a bit of a warm spell now so is in low 60s. Will be in the 50s soon and I expect hyper growth because colder water holds more oxygen. Had an extremely cold reservoir last winter on my first hydroponic crop and had some extreme results. Expecting same this time out.

Here are some pictures. The one showing the hand is the little runt that was miles behind all the others. It is now about the same height but not quite as big around, but it is still very nice. The second picture is a Dynamite, about average size for most of my plants:


----------



## MonsterRobot (Oct 19, 2009)

Things are looking awesome! I just flipped mine into flowering and I hope to see some big growth like that too...

Do you do any kind of topping or fimming to your plants or do you just let them grow naturally?


----------



## wowtestdrive (Oct 19, 2009)

Wow, Hella impressive growth myfriend! They look super healthy too! Keep up the good work, and keep those pics commin. 



MonsterRobot said:


> Do you do any kind of topping or fimming to your plants or do you just let them grow naturally?


Was wondering that myself, Looks like natural in the pics tho


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Oct 20, 2009)

MonsterRobot said:


> Things are looking awesome! I just flipped mine into flowering and I hope to see some big growth like that too...
> 
> Do you do any kind of topping or fimming to your plants or do you just let them grow naturally?


These are growing naturally. Two of the taller ones I bent the main top downward until the side branches grew past them, then untied them. This gave the same effect as topping them. I did this to keep the height even.


----------



## wowtestdrive (Oct 20, 2009)

What do you start these girls in? Rockwool or something like an EZ-Cloner so there isn't another medium other than the clay balls? And do you start them in the Ebb and Gro right away or start them in a propagation tray or something?


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Oct 21, 2009)

wowtestdrive said:


> What do you start these girls in? Rockwool or something like an EZ-Cloner so there isn't another medium other than the clay balls? And do you start them in the Ebb and Gro right away or start them in a propagation tray or something?


These came from a dispensary. Some were in rockwool and some came in rapid rooters. I am a medical grower. I can legally grow 15 plants for personal use. I can grow up to a certain weight and anything over that I donate to my dispensary. Hydroponics has turned into a sort of hobby for me.

When I get the rooted cuttings I put them in the ebb and grow and set it to flood once or twice a day. I idle them at about 250 - 300 PPM for about a week until I see roots coming out of the bottom of a few pots. Once they have spread their roots, you can start to turn the PPM up. When you see roots, you can crank the nutes. I set the ebb and grow to flood three times per day and I turn the PPM up to about 500 PPM then go up by 50 PPM per day until I reach about 800 PPM, then I stay there.

When you see roots and start to turn up the PPM, it takes about three days for them to take off. Be patient.

I always look at the tips of the leaves to make sure there is no burn from the fertilizer. If there is I would back off by about 100 PPM.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Oct 22, 2009)

wowtestdrive said:


> Wow very detailed post about the Ebb and Grow, think you sold me on it. Thanks man
> 
> Instead of keeping the lights higher up have you considered rearranging the buckets around to help keep growth even? Or is it too much of a pain when they are substantial size? Maybe you can get the wifie to help haha .
> 
> ...


Rearranging the buckets is a pain when they get any size to them. The best way Ive found to get even growth is to let them idle for a week before turning the PPM up.

When clones go into the system, you put the PPM at about 250 - 300 PPM and let it sit there for 7 or 8 days. This allows the roots to spread in the pots before the plants start to grow above ground. When you see roots coming out of the bottom of a few pots, it is time to turn the PPM up to 500-600 PPM. Plants with roots take off immediately. Plants without roots sit and do nothing. Letting them spread their roots before turning up the nutrients has them all take off at once, thus they are all roughly the same size when they are bigger.

If you immediately turn the PPM up when you put your clones in, some will take off right away, some will take off in a few days and some will take off a week or more later. This results in plants that are wildly different sized when they get big. 

When I have the lights lowered over the plants, the ones directly under the lamps grow fast, while the ones along the edges only get light on one side. When the lights are a bit higher, 18 - 24 inches above the plants, the plants in the center get good direct light and the ones along the edges get direct light on the side facing the light and reflected light from the Mylar on the side facing the wall. They get more even growth this way. The yield from the plants on the sides is a bit bigger as a result.

When they get very big they cannot be moved lest they fall apart from buds that are too heavy, a 'problem' that I can live with.

As for Hydrogen Peroxide, I add one tablespoon to the reservoir once per day. Just enough to boost the dissolved oxygen level a bit.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Oct 30, 2009)

UPDATE:

Well, it has been about ten days since I have posted pictures. The plants are huge. They should be at about the end of their major stretch. Of course they will stretch another six or eight inches before they finish but the brunt of the stretch is done. Every square inch of the room is full. All 50 square feet.

My Solution is getting very cold now. Last night when I checked them the solution temperature was 58 degrees. 

I went through all of the plants and pulled the little branches that are not getting light. Dont need parasitic growth sucking away energy from the plant.

The plants are so huge that it took about three hours to clean them up. Tonight I will change the solution.

Statistics:
Fertilization: Lucas Formula
Days flowering: 19
PPM: 1300
PH: 5.6
Solution Temp: 58
Room Temp: 77
Lighting: 3x1000 watt HPS
Plants: 15
Strains:
6 Skunk # 11
4 Dynamite
5 AK 47

Here are some updated pictures:


----------



## Old Fat Dude (Oct 30, 2009)

The Girls are looking real sexy , just about ready for some bud porn ...

Did you do any pruning or topping , I cant find it in your thread ? 

Just a tremendous grow , You make a difference , with what you do ...


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Oct 30, 2009)

Old Fat Dude said:


> The Girls are looking real sexy , just about ready for some bud porn ...
> 
> Did you do any pruning or topping , I cant find it in your thread ?
> 
> Just a tremendous grow , You make a difference , with what you do ...


I dont prune or top. It slows the plant down. Instead of topping I will bend the main tip downward and tie it. After a few days some of the side branches will grow up past it then I untie the main top. This makes the top of the plant grow in a V just like topping it. 

Yes, I agree I will get some bud porn out of this grow. Every one of the plants is putting on incredible weight for this early in the flowering stage. I am quite pleased.

Tonight I will change out the solution and clean everything out.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 2, 2009)

*Time for another update:*

I got some more pictures today. This is from last night. These pictures are* 22 days* *into flowering*. Hard to imagine what they will look like in a month  but we shall find out!!

The buds have stopped their major stretching. They stretch about 40% of the budding cycle. They are fattening up now. Of course they will continue stretching a few inches a week til they are done.

This weekend I have to get in and tie them up as best I can. As you can tell, Im not going to be able to get into the room for much longer without them falling apart from dead weight.  I will put a stake in the middle to hold up the terminal but on each one and tie up the side buds as well as I can. 

Most of my strains are 7-8 weeks. Lot of time to go.

I am giving them one tablespoon of H2O2 per day for added oxygen. The room is pretty cool for three lights, about 75 degrees with both exhaust fans running. As the weather gets colder I will just run the 465 cfm fan and when it gets winter cold Ill just run the 265 cfm.

The room where my reservoir is located is always about 55 degrees. My reservoir is at about 58 degrees now. Very cold water, the plants just love it. Colder the water, the more oxygen it holds, the more the root growth, the more massive the flowering. Had similar results last winter.

The room is about 55 degrees in dark period. The coolness doesnt seem to bother them at all.

*About the Lucas Formula:*
For the first 2 1/2 weeks, I would let the reservoir drop down to about 25 gallons before refilling it. The PPM was only drifting a little bit. From about 1250 ppm to about 1300 PPM over three days, very stable. Now I am topping off every day and just readjusting the PPM to 1300. They are using about 10 gallons a day. Really sucking down the water. They really love it when the solution is changed out. With every reservoir change, they do a growth spurt for a couple days, then settle back to normal growth. If I had all the time and money in the world I would change the reservoir twice a week.

*Here are pictures I took last night.*


----------



## wowtestdrive (Nov 3, 2009)

Good stuff man, everything continues to look great!

Have your ran into any major problems this grow or just smooth sailing?

I think your dispensary will be very happy in a few months here, GL on the 6lbs target!


----------



## blueybong (Nov 3, 2009)

Beautiful grow!!

Are you using 2 gallon buckets?


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 3, 2009)

blueybong said:


> Beautiful grow!!
> 
> Are you using 2 gallon buckets?


Yes, the buckets that come with the ebb and grow system are two gallon buckets. It would be easy to convert the system to larger buckets. 

The two gallon buckets kick ass so far.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 8, 2009)

*Update with Pictures:*

Well, it has been eight days since I last posted some pictures. The plants have now been flowering for 4 weeks. 

This last week I was letting the solution level get down to about 20 gallons before filling it back up. I did this because the PPM was barely changing as the nutrient level dropped. I noticed that I had some very slight micronutrient deficiencies as a result (3-4 days between adding nutes). The oldest shade leaves on the plants, the ones on main stem off the bottom couple of branches turned yellowish with greenish veins. I noticed some scale looking crap on a couple of the upper leaves. Looks like I had a slight phosphorus and magnesium deficiency. This tells me that even though the PPM is staying the same, the phosphorus and magnesium are being used up disproportionately.

Lucas says that you should top off every day or so with fresh nutrient. The deficiencies I had were very slight and not too noticeable but enough to tell me to stay on top of topping off the reservoir. I wont let it go longer than two days now. Lesson learned.

Besides that slight oddity, everything is going beyond my expectations, as you will see in the picturese 

*Statistics:*
Days Flowering: 29
PPM: 1300
PH: 5.6
Room temp: 75 daytime, 59 nighttime
Solution temp: 57
Humidity: 67
Odor control: Ona blocks/Gel

The plants are using between 7 and 10 gallons of solution per day. No elbow room left but each plant has a nice space and all are putting very thick buds. Well, IM half way through budding. Looking to be a bumper crop! Gotta love Lucas (and the ebb and grow!)

*Here are some pictures*, you can see the room is very crowded but very solid with buds. The third image shows a plant where an old shade leaf is yellowed as I described before:


----------



## blueybong (Nov 9, 2009)

Good info and beautiful plants!


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 9, 2009)

blueybong said:


> Good info and beautiful plants!


Yeah, 3-4 weeks to go and harvest. Cant wait!


----------



## blueybong (Nov 9, 2009)

I'm about 5 to 6 weeks and ditto on the can't wait!!

So far my EC & pH have been stable. I'm enjoying the Lucas Formula & how easy it is to grow via an E&G!


----------



## maxwelljr (Nov 9, 2009)

That sure is a pretty picture.


----------



## MonsterRobot (Nov 9, 2009)

How do you keep your plants from falling over? I don't know if you have this problem at all but I went to move one of my ladies the other day and she fell over and I had to tie her up... Anything you do to prevent this?


----------



## doniawon (Nov 9, 2009)

tomatoe cages will fit over the 2 gallon buckets


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 9, 2009)

doniawon said:


> tomatoe cages will fit over the 2 gallon buckets


Some people turn tomato cages upside down.

I get a metal plant stake and stick it into the hydroton right next to the main stalk and use long twist ties to attach it to the main cola.

If they start falling over I may just have to let them grow however they end up, too much bud in the way to get to the back of the room. Might do a little tying this coming weekend but after that nature will take its course.

Hey, Ive endured worse problems.


----------



## cackpircings (Nov 9, 2009)

Nice grow man!


----------



## green freak (Nov 9, 2009)

good grow looks great


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 13, 2009)

UPDATE:

Well, tomorrow will be 5 weeks. I have some updated pictures.

I somehow over-fertilized them. I didnt go above 1300 PPM with Lucas so I suspect that my PPM meter needs a new probe. Will have to wait another week to get one.

They all spurted about four inches in one day. this is indicative of a lot of nitrogen built up. The next day they showed slight leaf curl. Only a couple of them had burnt tips. 

Only three of them showed signs of overfertilizing. Very weird. that strain must be nitrogen sensitive. none of the other two strain showed anything unusual.


I flushed out the system and ran it with just plain water for about two days, then brought the PPM up to 400 and added some cal mag. I will let them idle at this PPM for one more day then bring it back up to within range. I will borrow a PPM meter from a friend until I can get a new probe.

No matter, they are still growing like gangbusters. I have 2-3 weeks left and they will be done. For the most part they have stopped growing and are now fattening.

Here are some pictures I just took.
The third picture shows one of the overfertilized plants. Any help dealing with this would be greatly appreciated. I will run them at low PPM til they look more normal. They look better than they did a couple days ago.


----------



## MonsterRobot (Nov 13, 2009)

I burned my plants about a week ago... I burned them with phosphorous tho and it was a lot worse than the burn you have... I flushed with a really low strength nute solution and it seemed to fix the problem with the new growth and no new burn patches appeared... It just looks funky because the parts that were burned will never return to normal... Your burn looks minimal tho and it seems that you caught it pretty early before anything bad happened... And I would agree that it is nitrogen burn because of the leaf curling down at the tips like a claw...

Things are looking great... Keep up the good work


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 14, 2009)

MonsterRobot said:


> I burned my plants about a week ago... I burned them with phosphorous tho and it was a lot worse than the burn you have... I flushed with a really low strength nute solution and it seemed to fix the problem with the new growth and no new burn patches appeared... It just looks funky because the parts that were burned will never return to normal... Your burn looks minimal tho and it seems that you caught it pretty early before anything bad happened... And I would agree that it is nitrogen burn because of the leaf curling down at the tips like a claw...
> 
> Things are looking great... Keep up the good work


They look much better this morn, I put the nutes up to 300. I will notch it up over the next few days to 1000 and keep it there for the rest of the grow. On the home stretch now.


----------



## fatguyinaliitecoat (Nov 15, 2009)

Let me start out by saying that your journal has been a great resource for me. I have the same growing area as you and I also plan on using the ebb and grow system. I do have a few questions though if you care to help.
The first is that I am starting from seeds and then from cloning mothers. Would you just start in rockwool and then transfer to the hydroton when they where the right size?
I would also like to ask about lights. I am going to be in an attic type area and I thought it would be better for me to use 3 - 600 hps lights. Should I go up to four or would you recommend the 1000 like you have?
My last question is about the height of your plants. If you where to let them grow to about 60 cm before you flower how tall would they be when complete? Lets just use AK47 for the strain.
Again, your journal has been extremely helpful and I wish you the best of luck with your grow.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 18, 2009)

fatguyinaliitecoat said:


> Let me start out by saying that your journal has been a great resource for me. I have the same growing area as you and I also plan on using the ebb and grow system. I do have a few questions though if you care to help.
> The first is that I am starting from seeds and then from cloning mothers. Would you just start in rockwool and then transfer to the hydroton when they where the right size?
> I would also like to ask about lights. I am going to be in an attic type area and I thought it would be better for me to use 3 - 600 hps lights. Should I go up to four or would you recommend the 1000 like you have?
> My last question is about the height of your plants. If you where to let them grow to about 60 cm before you flower how tall would they be when complete? Lets just use AK47 for the strain.
> Again, your journal has been extremely helpful and I wish you the best of luck with your grow.


As for starting from seeds in rockwool, once they begin to put out little side branches they can go into hydroton. If you give them some half strength fertilizer, this will take about two weeks. Keep them damp but not drenched.

The preferred way to go is with 600 watt lamps because you get a lot more even coverage and you get more lumens per watt. Example: 6 x 600 watt lamps give 600k lumens and uses 3600 watts. 4x1000 watt gives 560k lumens but uses 4000 watts, so the 1000 watt lamps cost more money for less light and the coverage (lights directly over plants) is a lot less. I use 1000 watt lamps because I dont have a lot of money and it is the most bang for my buck. Eventually I will switch over to 5 or 6 - 600 watt lamps.

Plants in hydroponics stretch a lot more than in dirt. I would shoot for about 40 cm. My experience is that they grow 4 to 5 times bigger than their size when you turn them over to flower. My room is wall to wall bud, there isnt a spare square centimeter of room and mine were about 40 cm when I flipped them.

I have one AK 47, it is twice as big as my other plants (indicas). It also has twice as much bud on it. I would err on the side of caution when it comes to the size at which you flip them. When they are about 30 cm wide, it is a good time to flip them to bud. 

How many plants do you plan to grow?


----------



## fatguyinaliitecoat (Nov 18, 2009)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> As for starting from seeds in rockwool, once they begin to put out little side branches they can go into hydroton. If you give them some half strength fertilizer, this will take about two weeks. Keep them damp but not drenched.
> 
> The preferred way to go is with 600 watt lamps because you get a lot more even coverage and you get more lumens per watt. Example: 6 x 600 watt lamps give 600k lumens and uses 3600 watts. 4x1000 watt gives 560k lumens but uses 4000 watts, so the 1000 watt lamps cost more money for less light and the coverage (lights directly over plants) is a lot less. I use 1000 watt lamps because I dont have a lot of money and it is the most bang for my buck. Eventually I will switch over to 5 or 6 - 600 watt lamps.
> 
> ...


 
I plan on growing 16. I am currently building my attic grow room. I have qot the floor down and a couple of walls. I am half way done with the insulation. I really want to post pics but I am nervous about it. It is going to be awesome, but it is a ton of work to do it right.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 18, 2009)

*UPDATE:*

I have some new pictures and stuff. Well, I had a slight case of severe nitrogen overdose. My TDS meter probe went bad on me causing me to give them way too much fertilizer. When I went to calibrate my meter, I couldnt do it. The numbers kept changing. Borrowed a meter from a friend and finally got a new probe.

I ran plain water for a couple of days to get the fertilizer out of them, then slowly started bringing the PPM back up. The plants went into a magnesium deficiency so I got some Cal-Mag and gave it half strength everytime i topped off and that stopped the deficiency. 

The PPM is now up to about 950 and they are growing normally. They are using the same amount of fertilizer at this PPM as they did at 1300, about 3 tablespoons of micro every other day. One other thing I noticed is that they are using more water at the lower PPM. I am still giving them Cal-Mag and will until I get the PPM up a little higher. I have two weeks or less left so I will probably just go up to 1100ish PPM. 

Had I not had the problem with the meter I would run them at 1300 ppm right up to 3 or 4 days before harvest, at which time I would drop the PPM to 200 or so. I see no reason to flush for weeks like some people do because they will use up all the systemic fertilizer in a few days.

Needless to say, the last week has been a good learning experience for me. It is probabally a good idea to replace the probes in your meters at last once a year, perhaps sooner.
*
Statistics:*

Days flowering: 39
Air temp: 73 (night 54)
Humidity: 63%
Solution temp: 54
Fertilization: Lucas formula w/cal mag
PPM: 950
PH: 5.6


I have four Dynamites that are on the verge of being finished. this will give me a bit of breathing room, my indica's are very tightly packed together and could use a little breathing space.

I have two high powered turbo fans blowing underneath the plants and a box fan blowing straight down on them from the ceiling as well as a circulatory fan blowing air all around. I do NOT want to have mold problems which is always a possibility with plants packed so tightly together. 

I am running two exhaust fans so humidity is not a problem. If anything were to be a problem on this grow it would be coldness.

I am running a very cold solution. 55 degrees is a lot lower than most people prefer, most say run it ten degrees higher but I have always had stunning results with a res at these temperatures. Water can hold a lot more dissolved oxygen at temperatures this low. I have heard that it will shock your plants but I have seen no evidence of that myself. By adding H2O2 everyday, I am supersaturating my solution with oxygen. Hydroponics is all about oxygen to the roots, IMHO.

Here are some pictures.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 20, 2009)

I harvested four Dynamites today. They had smallest buds of all the plants. Full done in 40 days. This is two crops in a row that I have had accelerated flowering. Last crop I had some 55 day plants finish in 42.

I am flooding four times a day now. Every three hours, FYI.

Here is a pic for your viewing pleasure. These dynamites had smaller buds on them, but lots and lots of them. Each plant had 20 or more buds.


----------



## fadrian (Nov 21, 2009)

nice grow man, real clean and simple. how much did that Ebb and Grow system run you?


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 21, 2009)

fadrian said:


> nice grow man, real clean and simple. how much did that Ebb and Grow system run you?


About 500$ tax included.


----------



## obie83 (Nov 21, 2009)

great info i subscribed. i was jus looking a one of these yesterday at the hydro store. thinking about a tent and2 1000hps. if i could get four lbs from this system that would be great. dou you think that would be possible with northern lights or big bud.


----------



## MonsterRobot (Nov 21, 2009)

since you have only one res and you harvested a few plants already I am guessing you didn't flush... do you normally flush or normally not? I have heard different things from different people as far as flushing with hydro goes... What is your opinion?


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 22, 2009)

obie83 said:


> great info i subscribed. i was jus looking a one of these yesterday at the hydro store. thinking about a tent and2 1000hps. if i could get four lbs from this system that would be great. dou you think that would be possible with northern lights or big bud.


Of course it is possible with all the conditions right. Three lights would do you even better. Seems one light for about every 15 square feet would do about right to get 4 lbs. That would be about a 4' x 8' growing area. Northern lights is very easy to grow and they dont overly stretch, very large buds and 45 days to finish. Never grown big bud.

I have ordered more cuttings for next grow. 15 Hawaiian big bud. Is a medical strain, supposedly get very heavy. Some Hawaiian strain crossed with Big bud.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 22, 2009)

MonsterRobot said:


> since you have only one res and you harvested a few plants already I am guessing you didn't flush... do you normally flush or normally not? I have heard different things from different people as far as flushing with hydro goes... What is your opinion?


Lucas says there is no need to flush with Lucas Formula, but I usually do the last 3 - 5 days or so. The fact that I have several different strains going makes it impossible, except with the last strain.

What I do for flushing is when I know there are only a few days left, I will drop the PPM down to 200 or so til they are completely done so they will use up whatever fertilizer they still have in them. Ive used just plain water before the last few days and ended up with nutrient deficiencies, I want them healthy til the end.


----------



## doniawon (Nov 24, 2009)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> On my last grow I did 12 plants. Five of them turned out to be so infested with bananas (male flowers) at about half way through flowering that I pulled them from the room.
> 
> The remaining seven plants produced 2 lbs + 16 grams. This was with two 1000 watt HPS. This time Im growing 15 plants with three 1000 watt HPS so I expect a bit more per plant.
> 
> Four pounds is a pretty safe bet. I am *hoping* to get closer to six pounds. Anything over four pounds is a bonus, in my view.



so did you get 6 pounds????? cause while it was a solid grow.. im thinking that your 15 plants fell a bit short of 6 lbs dry weight.. ???i guess im just hatein'
i think 2.5 lbs is a safer assumption


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 26, 2009)

doniawon said:


> so did you get 6 pounds????? cause while it was a solid grow.. im thinking that your 15 plants fell a bit short of 6 lbs dry weight.. ???i guess im just hatein'
> i think 2.5 lbs is a safer assumption


Not done yet. Im at 46 days or so right now. Another week or ten days to go for most of them. It is looking like I will get just over 5 lbs. I will take some more pictures tonight.


----------



## xceptional (Nov 26, 2009)

Green you're the Man! can't wait for more pics!!!!! picking up a ebb n grow this week!


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 27, 2009)

I harvested my 'runt' plant last night. Very nice little harvest from it, perhaps five oz.

I got a total of 21 oz and change from my four dynamites. Very odd strain in that they each had a couple dozen long, but not very thick buds on them. Decent yield though, all told. Supremely resinous strain. So much resin that cutting up a bud to roll a joint was almost impossible, all the little pieces would stick to fingers and scissors. Got a marble sized piece of scissor hash from trimming the first plant alone. Got a small ball of scissor hash just from cutting the dried buds off of the stalks. Very, very potent strain and dead ripe. Will keep four zips of this for myself.

The last couple of days I have noticed that the PPM is rising a lot faster between top offs, and the PH is rising a lot slower. This tells me that they are no longer using a lot of fertilizer. Time to start my flush very soon. I will let them get a little riper before flushing. Looking like next weekend most will be done, or close to done.

I went and looked at some of the plants in the back and hairs are beginning to turn in the terminal buds, and the calyxes are beginning to swell. Time to keep a closer eye on them.

Heading out right now to take some of this wonderful Dynamite to my dispensary. Last medicine I picked up from them to smoke was basically exotic hay. The other growers that supply them never seem to know when the plants are ripe and yank them a week or two early. A lot of growers pull their plants way too early. I would suggest newcomers to growing go bye the resin glands rather than eyeballing it. I have always eyeballed them myself. Judging ripeness is something I have become very good at it over the years. 

Long story short, my dispensary loves it when they see me pulling into the driveway.

I will have some pictures later.

-Peace


----------



## derk79 (Nov 27, 2009)

very good journal keep it up im starting a ebb n gro 24 site monday so i will be watching. thanks for the very good tips and tricks keep us posted!!!!


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 27, 2009)

derk79 said:


> very good journal keep it up im starting a ebb n gro 24 site monday so i will be watching. thanks for the very good tips and tricks keep us posted!!!!


If you have any ebb and grow questions dont hesitate to ask.

Hey all, remember the sickly little runt plant that was waaaay behind all the others??







Well, I just harvested it last night, the center bud is so huge I can barely get it in the picture holding it at arms length!! As you can see it is dead stinking ripe!!!


----------



## blueybong (Nov 28, 2009)

Sweet!!!!!!!


----------



## xceptional (Nov 28, 2009)

GreenThumb that's inspiring because i have a retarded looking runt that i am going to be putting in my system tonight or tomorrow and i was wondering if i should just get a new clone instead. as i mentioned a few days ago i was getting a ebb and grow and although i was planning on getting one before i found your journal you sealed the deal! Derk79 is a buddy of mine and we are both using the Ebb and Grow system for the first time starting our first cycles days apart so we will be learning together and probably both be asking you questions!


----------



## xceptional (Nov 28, 2009)

Hey GreenThumbSucker have you ever had any clogging issues in your Ebb and Grow? if so have you every tried a pre filter around the pump in the res and in the brain? i was thinking about getting one but i didn't know if it would be overkill and more hassle then help.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 28, 2009)

xceptional said:


> Hey GreenThumbSucker have you ever had any clogging issues in your Ebb and Grow? if so have you every tried a pre filter around the pump in the res and in the brain? i was thinking about getting one but i didn't know if it would be overkill and more hassle then help.


I have never had clogging issues with this system. The pumps all use half inch hose which is too big to clog. Just clean them out really good between crops and when you change out your solution.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 28, 2009)

xceptional said:


> GreenThumb that's inspiring because i have a retarded looking runt that i am going to be putting in my system tonight or tomorrow and i was wondering if i should just get a new clone instead. as i mentioned a few days ago i was getting a ebb and grow and although i was planning on getting one before i found your journal you sealed the deal! Derk79 is a buddy of mine and we are both using the Ebb and Grow system for the first time starting our first cycles days apart so we will be learning together and probably both be asking you questions!


Just remember, when you first put clones into the system they need to sit for about a week to spread their roots. Put the PPM at 250 - 300 for 7 days. They wont grow much above ground but will spread out their root systems. If you dont do this you will have plants that end up all different sizes in the end which causes problems. Be patient.

Once you have let them idle for 7 days, turn the nutrients up to about 500 for couple days, then 600. About a week later you can go to 700 or 800 and keep it there for the duration of your vegetative cycle. When you turn up the nutrients, it takes about three days and BOOM they take off.

My runt caught up with all the rest and actually ended up being the tallest plant. With hydroponics, it is all about the root system. What you see above ground reflects how big your root system is below ground. If your runt spreads its roots, it will take right off. 

"If you have a lot of light,
then you can crank up the load."

"If they have roots,
they can handle nutes."

Tonight I will do a full report on my plants, with full pictures.


----------



## obie83 (Nov 28, 2009)

after vegging for three weeks then going into flower how tall did the plants stop growing.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 28, 2009)

obie83 said:


> after vegging for three weeks then going into flower how tall did the plants stop growing.


Plants stretch for about 40% of the time they bud. A 7 week strain will stretch for 2.8 weeks, give or take. An 8 week strain will stretch for 3.2 weeks, give or take.

A few of them, the dynamites and the runt plant, all got about 3'6" tall, bucket included. The others are all about uniformly 2 1/2 feet tall.

If I had to do it over I would have vegged them 3 or 4 days less, they ended up packed in like sardines.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 28, 2009)

*Update with pictures:*
It has been seven weeks as of today. I have harvested six plants thus far. Two are now drying. I kept four OZ from the Dynamite. Very incredibly potent/resinous strain, would recommend it to anyone. Will report on the other two when they dry.

The rest of the plants have almost stopped using fertilizer. The PPM rises quite a bit every day which tells me they are using water but not food. 

The main colas are solid now but still have a little ways to go. They are at that stage where they could finish up in ten days or suddenly ripen in 4 or 5. They haven't grown much in the last week and a half. They just keep getting more and more solid looking as the calyxes swell and they solidify. Only the lower buds are turning hairs now, with very few turning in the main colas. No new pistils though.

I will wait til the hairs are 2/3 turned, perhaps more depending on how they look. I should splurge and get a magnifier. 

I am starting to wind down on PPM now, will keep decreasing til they look almost done then drop it to almost nothing the last few days.

The PPM has been consistently rising about 3 tenths every day since flowering started. Every day I knock it down to 5.5 or 5.6

My solution temp has risen 6 degrees. I think this is because I now have six empty holes where plants had been and the solution in the bottom of those empty buckets is warming up a little between floods. I am also running just a single exhaust fan now, so the room is a little bit warmer.

*Statistics:*

Days flowering: 49
PPM: 700
PH: 5.7
Water temp: 60
Air temp: 77
Humidity: 63
Plants left in system: 9

I have been using a bunch of ONA gel/blocks and have had no problems whatsoever with odor. You have to agitate it everyday or it stops emitting odor. I have a gallon ice cream pail with no lid with about an inch of it in the bottom, It is sitting in front of an oscillating fan on the floor. If I dont stir it every day, I smell slight bud in the house when I wake up in the morning. I have some ONA blocks just inside my air intake. Between all this, there is no smell. ONA is miraculous shit.

Everything is going smoothly. I expect to be finished within ten days.

Here are a bunch of pictures:

Questions? Suggestions? Comments?


----------



## blueybong (Nov 29, 2009)

Excellent!! You've been a great help in teaching how this system works, taking a bunch of guess work out for me.

I hope to have the same success next time around!!

Congrats!!


----------



## xceptional (Nov 29, 2009)

off of the 4 plants your harvested how much did you get? I'm guessing they are dried because you said you kept 4oz. really looking forward to seeing what your final numbers are!


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 29, 2009)

xceptional said:


> off of the 4 plants your harvested how much did you get? I'm guessing they are dried because you said you kept 4oz. really looking forward to seeing what your final numbers are!


Slightly over 21 oz. I expect to get quite a bit more off of the last plants. One plant has at least 3/4 of a lb on it. Most look between 6 oz and a 1/2 lb each.


----------



## xceptional (Nov 30, 2009)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Slightly over 21 oz. I expect to get quite a bit more off of the last plants. One plant has at least 3/4 of a lb on it. Most look between 6 oz and a 1/2 lb each.



wow that's sick you are my hero lol. i just moved my plants from a aero cloner into my ebb and grow today and I'm super excited. I'm following your journal like a bible because if i get your results i couldn't be happier.


----------



## derk79 (Nov 30, 2009)

holy shit u are good!!! i cant wiat til mine harvest


----------



## MaryzMastaH (Nov 30, 2009)

How many tablespoons per gallon do u use for your flowering.....I got the same nutes you do.


----------



## xceptional (Dec 1, 2009)

MaryzMastaH said:


> How many tablespoons per gallon do u use for your flowering.....I got the same nutes you do.


MaryzMastaH he put all that info in his journal. this is one of the cleanest most detailed journals just go back and read form the beginning you will find the answer.


----------



## xceptional (Dec 1, 2009)

the first thing i do when i get online is check your journal these days lol. cant wait to see what the end result is!!!!


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Dec 7, 2009)

*Final update:*

Well, I harvested the last nine.

Three days before I began harvesting them, I could tell they were within a few days so I dropped the PPM to 150. Over the next couple of days the shade leaves turned yellow as they used up whatever fertilizer was in them and started cannibalizing themselves. I am confident that whatever ferts they had built up is now used. They should taste nice and sweet.

The last nine plants finished over a four day period.

It will be a week or so before they dry, I have them in a cold 55 degree room with an exaust fan drawing air out, and an oscillating fan blowing away from them to keep the air stirred up.

I will upload pics later, for some reason the file manager keeps failing.

Questions, comments, suggestions?


----------



## Lovin'JK (Dec 7, 2009)

This Journal is simply amazing. I am too loooking into an ebb n grow system but was a little discouraged by the price. I was looking at this DWC System but was wondering if my tent temps of 80 degrees would be too hot for the roots and maybe cause rez problems even though my rez is located externally. Do you think I could achieve the same yields and or success with this system? -->

http://cgi.ebay.com/12-POD-HYDROPONIC-GROW-SYSTEM-4-GREENHOUSE-MH-HPS-LIGHT_W0QQitemZ160382940490QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item255791754a#ht_5135wt_1167

I was also wondering if the roots get more o2 by constant flood and drain or by dwc w/ bubbles?
Thanks for your great Journal


----------



## tom__420 (Dec 7, 2009)

DWC with bubbles will be supplying the roots with a constant supply of great amounts of o2
It probably gives the roots more o2 than ebb and grow would


----------



## Bob Smith (Dec 7, 2009)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> *Final update:*
> 
> Well, I harvested the last nine.
> 
> ...


GreenThumb, firstly, great looking grow.

Now, a couple of questions, if you wouldn't mind:

1) You really prefer rez temps in the mid 50s? I grow in a "true" E&F, and have always understood that rez temps below 60 would be problematic - I'm asking because I'd prefer to not have to buy a reservoir heater, if I could help it - temps in my reservoir would be in the low 50s without it.

2) I'm also running the Lucas Formula (8mL of Floranova bloom per gallon), and I haven't changed out my reservoir yet (25 days of veg and about 7 of 12/12, as of today) - I simply top off with R/O water and nute as needed - did you ever try this method, or have you always changed out your rez every week or two? If you did try this method, what problems did you run into? I've just started adding 35% H2O2 when I top off, just to kill any nasties.

Anyways, great journal and thanks for your time - if you'd like, I always welcome comments in my journal, especially from others doing E&F.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Dec 7, 2009)

Lovin'JK said:


> This Journal is simply amazing. I am too loooking into an ebb n grow system but was a little discouraged by the price. I was looking at this DWC System but was wondering if my tent temps of 80 degrees would be too hot for the roots and maybe cause rez problems even though my rez is located externally. Do you think I could achieve the same yields and or success with this system? -->
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/12-POD-HYDROPONIC-GROW-SYSTEM-4-GREENHOUSE-MH-HPS-LIGHT_W0QQitemZ160382940490QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item255791754a#ht_5135wt_1167
> 
> ...


From what I have seen DWC systems work very well. It isnt really the system that works the magic but the hydroponics.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Dec 7, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> GreenThumb, firstly, great looking grow.
> 
> Now, a couple of questions, if you wouldn't mind:
> 
> ...


I have had no problems whatsoever with a very cold reservoir. I have been told by an expert that it is part of my success. I will say this. My friends reservoir is getting into the 30s and 40s and his growth is slowing way down (cold snap where he lives and he is growing in a garage). I think 55ish - 65ish is probably ideal.

Last grow I went a couple of weeks between change outs and a few times I had nutrient deficiencies. I noticed that when I would change the reservoir, the would go through a growth spurt for a couple of days, then slow down a little. Growth seems to be more consistantly intense with more change outs. 

One thing that I have found that works well is to do a half change out. Just dump half the res, top it off and bring ferts back up to normal. They react very well to it.

Glad you liked the journal


----------



## tom__420 (Dec 7, 2009)

Tell your friend to pick up a cheapo aquarium heater to kick the temps up to at least 60°F


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Dec 7, 2009)

*Here are some pics:*
Almost every hair on this plant was turned except the top four inches of the main cola. These pictures are all from the last plant.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Dec 8, 2009)

tom__420 said:


> Tell your friend to pick up a cheapo aquarium heater to kick the temps up to at least 60°F


This grow my temps were in the mid 50s throughout most of the budding cycle. Epic growth.


----------



## Bob Smith (Dec 8, 2009)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> I have had no problems whatsoever with a very cold reservoir. I have been told by an expert that it is part of my success. I will say this. My friends reservoir is getting into the 30s and 40s and his growth is slowing way down (cold snap where he lives and he is growing in a garage). I think 55ish - 65ish is probably ideal.
> 
> Last grow I went a couple of weeks between change outs and a few times I had nutrient deficiencies. I noticed that when I would change the reservoir, the would go through a growth spurt for a couple of days, then slow down a little. Growth seems to be more consistantly intense with more change outs.
> 
> ...


Thanks man, appreciate it - haven't seen any nute deficiencies as of yet, so I think I'm gonna just try to continue with topping off with R/O water and nute'ing that.

And as far as the temps go, gonna pickup an aquarium heater - figure the reservoir could get down to about 50, which is a bit too cold for my mamas and my clones.

The flowering tent reservoir is in the tent (which is between 63-82F), so I think that rez will be okay without a heater.

Thanks again.


----------



## Lovin'JK (Dec 9, 2009)

> Thanks man, appreciate it - haven't seen any nute deficiencies as of yet, so I think I'm gonna just try to continue with topping off with R/O water and nute'ing that.
> 
> And as far as the temps go, gonna pickup an aquarium heater - figure the reservoir could get down to about 50, which is a bit too cold for my mamas and my clones.
> 
> ...


By topping that off like that what if the plant is using nutrients up unequally? Couldnt that cause a nute build up? Sorry newb questions!


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Dec 9, 2009)

Lovin'JK said:


> By topping that off like that what if the plant is using nutrients up unequally? Couldnt that cause a nute build up? Sorry newb questions!


Yes, it can. Plants use different nutrients at different rates at different stages.

Lucas says you can just top off and not change out solution the whole budding cycle with the Lucas formula. I have had problems doing that. Others say it works.


----------



## Bob Smith (Dec 10, 2009)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Yes, it can. Plants use different nutrients at different rates at different stages.
> 
> Lucas says you can just top off and not change out solution the whole budding cycle with the Lucas formula. I have had problems doing that. Others say it works.


GTS, could you elaborate on some issues you've had, such as any specific nute deficiencies that you noticed?

Or was it a "the plants just didn't look healthy" kind of a thing?


----------



## Lovin'JK (Dec 10, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> GTS, could you elaborate on some issues you've had, such as any specific nute deficiencies that you noticed?
> 
> Or was it a "the plants just didn't look healthy" kind of a thing?


Hi Mr Smith. Im going to try topping off. I just flushed both my rez's yesterday and I know they could take the nutes. I did however see MAJOR problems topping off w/o ph'd water though. 

I believe the more the rez evaps the more it throws the nutes off. Ive had salt build up even using DutchMaster 1/4 strength which is already weak as it is.

Any Updates on the babies GTS?


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Dec 10, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> GTS, could you elaborate on some issues you've had, such as any specific nute deficiencies that you noticed?
> 
> Or was it a "the plants just didn't look healthy" kind of a thing?


Four things I have noticed from going on too long between change outs using the Lucas Formula:

1. Slower growth: The further away you get from a solution change out, the more lackluster the growth becomes.

2. Nute burn: During flowering they use nitrogen at a lesser rate than phosphorus, thus it builds up. I have noticed leaf tip burn after going a couple of weeks between change outs, particularly in later bloom.

3. Unidentified deficiencies: Ive had leaves turn yellow, the veins of the shade leaves turn colors, scale looking crap on older leaves (magnesium deficiency). When you see any sign of deficiency it is time to change out solution, except in very late bloom when the plant begins dying and turning yellow.

4. Nutrient lockout: When I started getting random deficiencies after a couple of weeks, giving them more fertilizer didnt solve the problem. They plants just wouldnt use it. I suspect that some nutrients lock out for whatever reason after a while.

In every case changing the solution solved it.

There are two rules for changing out solution.

*Addback rule:* When you have added back an amount equal to the size of the reservoir, change out the solution. Keep track of how much water you give when you top off.

*PH Rule:* When PH starts dropping instead of rising, change out solution.

*My rule: * Change out solution every week OR do a half change out, then every other week do a full change out of solution.


----------



## Lovin'JK (Dec 10, 2009)

> Addback rule: When you have added back an amount equal to the size of the reservoir, change out the solution. Keep track of how much water you give when you top off.
> 
> PH Rule: When PH starts dropping instead of rising, change out solution.
> 
> My rule: Change out solution every week OR do a half change out, then every other week do a full change out of solution.


Thats real easy to remember, thanks


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Dec 10, 2009)

Lovin'JK said:


> Any Updates on the babies GTS?


Now that you mention it, yes.

I went and picked up 6 blackberry plants, one MK Ultra and 8 blueberry plants from my dispensary. They are all very small cuttings so I will let them idle for about ten days to spread their roots.

The AK47 dried. Got 11 OZ + 27 grams off of it. Kept 4 OZ of it.

Still have eight plants drying.


----------



## Lovin'JK (Dec 10, 2009)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Now that you mention it, yes.
> 
> I went and picked up 6 blackberry plants, one MK Ultra and 8 blueberry plants from my dispensary. They are all very small cuttings so I will let them idle for about ten days to spread their roots.
> 
> ...


The Yield your achieving is amazing. Im going to build a bucket system to try here soon. A while back a buddy gave me some MK Ultra to try and it was simply amazing. BOMB BOMB congrats man.


----------



## Bob Smith (Dec 10, 2009)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Four things I have noticed from going on too long between change outs using the Lucas Formula:
> 
> 1. Slower growth: The further away you get from a solution change out, the more lackluster the growth becomes.
> 
> ...


Really appreciate that info, my friend.

Thing is, the plants are going through about 5 gallons a day from my 35 gallon reservoir, so the reservoir is basically emptied out each week (I know about using nutes at different rates, but it's close enough for me for the time being).

I'm gonna (try to, barring any serious issues I encounter) continue topping off for this entire grow, and see what happens - for my next grow, I'll change out the rez every two weeks, and compare the results.

Again, thanks so much for your time and input, I really, really appreciate it.

Tried to give you some more rep but it wouldn't let me kiss-ass


----------



## Lovin'JK (Dec 10, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Really appreciate that info, my friend.
> 
> Thing is, the plants are going through about 5 gallons a day from my 35 gallon reservoir, so the reservoir is basically emptied out each week (I know about using nutes at different rates, but it's close enough for me for the time being).
> 
> ...


Yea I have two 10 Gal Rez's and the plants use about a 3 gallons between both of em daily. Im just going to top off with a 1/4 strength solution to see if thatll not overfeed them.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Dec 14, 2009)

Everything has dried. I ended up keeping a pound total. Everything else went to the dispensary.

The total finished weight is 94.8 oz or *5.8 lbs*. I got 5 lbs and 14.8 oz. The last eight plants yielded 54 oz or 6.75 oz per plant.

Mistakes: What would I do different?

First thing, when I vegetated them, I turned them when the plants filled about half the floor space. Ended up being packed in like sardines within a week. Next time I will turn them when they fill 1/3 of the floor space. All in all though they dont seem to mind so much being tightly together. Just made it hard to move around in the room.

The plants under the cheap 'econo wing' reflector seemed to do better than the plants under the expensive parabolic reflector. The parabolic reflector spread the light out evenly over a wide circle though, very good for vegetative.

I access my grow room from the end instead of from the side. This makes it hard to maneuver around inside the room to do work. This is something that needs to be dealt with in the future and the room reconfigured. I am using half of an unfinished bedroom in the basement.

Questions, comments, suggestions?


----------



## obie83 (Dec 14, 2009)

great job i'm going to get that exact system in a few weeks put it under 3000 watts


----------



## blueybong (Dec 14, 2009)

Great info and a most excellent yield!

Thanks for updating us!


----------



## obie83 (Dec 14, 2009)

another question how far was the light from the plants at all times


----------



## Bob Smith (Dec 14, 2009)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Everything has dried. I ended up keeping a pound total. Everything else went to the dispensary.
> 
> The total finished weight is 94.8 oz or *5.8 lbs*. I got 5 lbs and 14.8 oz. The last eight plants yielded 54 oz or 6.75 oz per plant.
> 
> ...


Sick grow, sick journal, sick yield - A+ all around my man.


----------



## Lovin'JK (Dec 14, 2009)

Great End, fantastic Yield good job


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Dec 15, 2009)

obie83 said:


> another question how far was the light from the plants at all times


This time I kept the lights about 20 - 24 inches above the plants. Normally I go about 12- 15 inches above. My growth was very even. The plants along the walls were further from the lamps, but they got the reflected light off the Mylar as well as from the lamp. Many of the plants along the walls were actually bigger than those directly under the lights.

They seem to do better with the lights a little higher AS LONG AS your room isnt too wide and you use Mylar on all walls for reflection.


----------



## obie83 (Jan 12, 2010)

did you use any c02 at all


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Jan 15, 2010)

obie83 said:


> did you use any c02 at all


I did not use any CO2 this time but I will in the future. I will have to get hoods that have vents before I can do that and they are expensive.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Jan 15, 2010)

I still have a couple of issues to work out next time.

Taste: The buds have a slight 'chemmy' taste. Can taste the ferts slightly. I have been studying up on properly flushing them. Next time when I flush, I will change the reservoir daily until the PPM of the flush water comes back within 50 PPM of tap water then run pure water until they are done. Before I was running them at about 350 PPM during flush. I will also start the flush earlier. 

I will also start growing just one strain per room. When you grow two strains at once and they finish two weeks apart, one doesn't get flushed.

Drying: I somewhat suck at drying. They either end up too wet or too dry or smelling like hay. I have found that if you 'sweat' them, mist them with water to bring back some of the moisture level when they are too dry, the taste and smell goes away and they end up smelling like hay. Fuck that.

Someone I met at the dispensary does consulting and he gave me some tips on drying. He dries until all but the biggest colas snap clean when you break them. He then puts them loosely into paper sacks and lets them slow dry until the bigger buds are dry in the middle. He then cures them in gallon glass jars, opening the jars 4 times a day for about ten minutes each time for a few weeks. His stuff is sweet and dank and very yummy tasting.

All having been said I am quite pleased how this grow went.


----------



## Bob Smith (Jan 15, 2010)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> I still have a couple of issues to work out next time.
> 
> Taste: The buds have a slight 'chemmy' taste. Can taste the ferts slightly. I have been studying up on properly flushing them. Next time when I flush, I will change the reservoir daily until the PPM of the flush water comes back within 50 PPM of tap water then run pure water until they are done. Before I was running them at about 350 PPM during flush. I will also start the flush earlier.
> 
> ...


You sure those are chemicals that you're tasting? Many growers who I respect don't flush at all and claim it to be a myth and only an issue for people who've over-ferted - apologies that I forget your specific grow, but did you over-fert at some point?

Because that would explain it, methinks.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Jan 15, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> You sure those are chemicals that you're tasting? Many growers who I respect don't flush at all and claim it to be a myth and only an issue for people who've over-ferted - apologies that I forget your specific grow, but did you over-fert at some point?
> 
> Because that would explain it, methinks.


Yeah, about two and a half weeks before they were done. Still, a proper flush should take care of that.


----------



## Bob Smith (Jan 15, 2010)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Yeah, about two and a half weeks before they were done. Still, a proper flush should take care of that.


I'm no flushing expert at all (and try to not pretend to be one on the Internet - don't flush at all), but I do recall reading (can't remember the source for the life of me) that plants that are overferted need almost a month to fully absolve themselves of all the excess stored up nutes they have - running as much pure water through the system as you want won't help out matters, as the plant has enough nutes to last it for longer then your flushing period.

Also, forgive me for not looking back, and you don't have to answer and tell me to stop being so lazy, but how exactly did you overfert them? What was the PPM, and for how long?


----------



## justjr27 (Jan 16, 2010)

im planning on using the same system but with 50 pots what size res. and control box do you recomend I use so I can run cycles for 7 days and then changing res.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Jan 17, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> I'm no flushing expert at all (and try to not pretend to be one on the Internet - don't flush at all), but I do recall reading (can't remember the source for the life of me) that plants that are overferted need almost a month to fully absolve themselves of all the excess stored up nutes they have - running as much pure water through the system as you want won't help out matters, as the plant has enough nutes to last it for longer then your flushing period.
> 
> Also, forgive me for not looking back, and you don't have to answer and tell me to stop being so lazy, but how exactly did you overfert them? What was the PPM, and for how long?


They were over fertilized for one day after which they were given just water. They pulled out of it and went back to normal growth in about 4 or 5 days. 

They got over-fertilized because my PPM meter had a broken probe. Not sure what the actual PPM was when they were overfertilized.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Jan 17, 2010)

justjr27 said:


> im planning on using the same system but with 50 pots what size res. and control box do you recomend I use so I can run cycles for 7 days and then changing res.


To flood 15 pots takes about 12 gallons, or about a quarter of the reservoir. You would need about 35 gallons just to flood the pots (when using hydroton ) using a single 55 gallon reservoir.

I would split 50 plants between two ebb and grow systems. 50 plants would use at least 20 gallons of water per day. Would be nightmarish trying to keep up with it in a single ebb and grow system.


----------



## leethewarmage (Jan 17, 2010)

what happens if you dont give them enough nutes? i ave some claw on one of my plants just one out of the four i have in my tote hydro set. i used bag see my frist run so i ave two sativas and two indicas. one satvia looks like poop the others doing great. think it might be b/c my ppm was low or my sprayers we clogged pretty bad


----------



## tom__420 (Jan 17, 2010)

leethewarmage said:


> what happens if you dont give them enough nutes? i ave some claw on one of my plants just one out of the four i have in my tote hydro set. i used bag see my frist run so i ave two sativas and two indicas. one satvia looks like poop the others doing great. think it might be b/c my ppm was low or my sprayers we clogged pretty bad


Leaf claw is from your pH being messed up, do you have a pH meter and keep the pH in check at all times?


----------



## smokingrubber (Jan 18, 2010)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Everything has dried. I ended up keeping a pound total. Everything else went to the dispensary.
> 
> The total finished weight is 94.8 oz or *5.8 lbs*. I got 5 lbs and 14.8 oz. The last eight plants yielded 54 oz or 6.75 oz per plant.


What's the poop on dealing with a dispensary? I have a script and I'm signed up with a disp in Santa Barbera. Do they buy weed from patients off the street? Do I have to know someone on the inside? Basically, can I take what I've got (don't have it yet) down there and just ask em if they want it? Should I go hand out sample bags to a couple shops and wait for them to call me? How exactly does it work? What kind of prices would I expect?

I've never sold to a dispensary so a little guideance would be helpful.


----------



## poundpusher2009 (Jan 18, 2010)

Great grow GTS... Very inspiring I was thinking of doing hempy buckets but this would really be alot easier and not take time for self watering. I think Im convinced. I do have some questions for you. I read you grow journal twice now and believe these questions have not been answered or have been but I am not very clear on what the answer is.

1. How long was your veg period? I seen you let them get to 24 inches but how long did it take. How long was the flower Period for the ak.
2. Are you using any air conitioners in your basement grow? If not how has the basement environment treated you?
3. I have heard your supposed to keep the bucket off the floor to keep the roots from getting to cold and locking up? Have you had any problems
4. For beginners in hydroponics the lucas formula although seems easy to advanced people is very confusing. Is there any videos or articles that are easy to understand as far as lucas forumula for dummies.. LOL

Great grow again.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Jan 19, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> What's the poop on dealing with a dispensary? I have a script and I'm signed up with a disp in Santa Barbera. Do they buy weed from patients off the street? Do I have to know someone on the inside? Basically, can I take what I've got (don't have it yet) down there and just ask em if they want it? Should I go hand out sample bags to a couple shops and wait for them to call me? How exactly does it work? What kind of prices would I expect?
> 
> I've never sold to a dispensary so a little guideance would be helpful.


Not sure how they do it in California. Go to the dispensary and ask them. I have heard that dispensaries in Cal will buy the overflow from their patient growers but they are very very finicky about the finished product.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Jan 19, 2010)

poundpusher2009 said:


> Great grow GTS... Very inspiring I was thinking of doing hempy buckets but this would really be alot easier and not take time for self watering. I think Im convinced. I do have some questions for you. I read you grow journal twice now and believe these questions have not been answered or have been but I am not very clear on what the answer is.
> 
> 1. How long was your veg period? I seen you let them get to 24 inches but how long did it take. How long was the flower Period for the ak.
> 2. Are you using any air conitioners in your basement grow? If not how has the basement environment treated you?
> ...


When my clones go into the system, I run them at low PPM for a week. This is necessary for allowing the plants to spread their roots. Plants that have roots take off immediately when you turn up the PPM.

After letting them spread their roots for a week, I turned the PPM up to a level that would have them grow rapidly (500ish ppm). In my mind, this is the beginning of the vegetative period. Once I turned the PPM up, they stayed in vegetative stage for 2 1/2 more weeks. I believe I should have only let them go for 2 more weeks because they ended up so tightly packed together. They tripled and quadrupled in width when they flowered. 

From the time I put them into the system until I started flowering them was a total of 3 1/2 weeks. 1 week idling and 2 1/2 weeks vegetating.

------------------------------------------------------

I did not use any air conditioners. I vented directly to my chimney. My exhaust is in one upper corner and my intake is in the opposite bottom corner. I also have four fans in the room stirring up the air. I had no heat problems. The basement is unheated. This means that my reservoir stays cold - about 56 degrees most of the time. It also means that the room gets cold during the dark period, in the mid 50s. It didnt seem to affect the yield at all having the cooler room.

------------------------------------------------------

The ebb and grow uses two buckets, one that holds the water and one that sits inside it that holds the plant. There is about a 1.5 inch gap between the two that has solution in it. This inch and a half of water insulates the roots. Remember, the buckets have to be at the same height as the controller at all time. No problems whatsoever.

------------------------------------------------------

The Lucas Formula can be summed up as such:

Using General Hydroponics Micro and Bloom parts of their three part formula, you use them at this ratio at all times:

*1 part Micro to 2 parts bloom*
for every tablespoon of micro use 2 tablespoons of bloom always.

*The PPM is maintained at 1300 PPM at all times*. The PPM can drift between 1200 and 1400 but when adding back water, the solution is brought back to 1300 by adding more micro and bloom at the 1:2 ratio.

I top off my ebb and grow reservoir about every two days.

Lucas says to use the formula during vegetative but I only use it during flowering. During vegetative I use the normal General Hydroponics 3-2-1 formulation. 3 Parts grow, 2 parts micro, and 1 part bloom.

Lucas had a long running thread on Cannabis world called 'Ask Lucas' where growers asked questions about growing with the Lucas formula. He gives a lot of detailed information and it is a must read! I have read it several times and it will help you a lot!

See it here:

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=892

Hope that all helps, if you have anymore questions dont hesitate to ask, I check this thread every day or two!

GTS


----------



## Banditt (Jan 19, 2010)

great journal man +rep!


----------



## Odis (Jan 24, 2010)

I want to thank you for taking the time to document your grow, Very helpful, for im sure alot of cabb users ! Thanks! 

I do have a few qestions:

1 Do you run any air stones in your res tank?

2 do you elevate your buckets? so that it does not leave as much water in the bottom?

3 have you tried sure to grow (STG) inserts? whats your thoughts about STG? I hate dealing with the clay pellets...

4 have you tried to put air stones in the bottom of each buckets? your thoughts..

Thanks again!!


----------



## DopeyTripod (Jan 24, 2010)

just read the whole journal... GREAT read!!

very helpful.
you da man!


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Jan 25, 2010)

Odis said:


> I want to thank you for taking the time to document your grow, Very helpful, for im sure alot of cabb users ! Thanks!
> 
> I do have a few qestions:
> 
> ...


I run one big airstone in the reservoir barrel. The barrel that comes with the system is about 3 1/2 feet tall so there is a 3 foot plume of bubbles coming up in the solution. This stirs it nicely.

I do not elevate my buckets. Only the very bottom half inch or so of the inside bucket touches the water that stays in the bottom. The buckets wick this up between floods. Several methods of growing use this type of wicking, hempy buckets for instance. A good amount of this gets used up by the plants between floods. The roots that come out of the bottom of the buckets are nice and white and healthy so I wouldnt worry about it. They seem to love it.

I have never tried sure to grow. I love hydroton but I hate cleaning it. I have always had good results with hydroton so I will stick with it.

There is no need for airstones at the bottom of the buckets. Hydroton holds lots of air between the pebbles, so the roots are plenty aerated.


----------



## mrduke (Jan 26, 2010)

hey GTS do you add any "extras" to your bloom formula or just the micro and bloom? I've used the koolbloom's for a while and was woundering about it with the lucas formula. any up dates on the next run?


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Jan 26, 2010)

mrduke said:


> hey GTS do you add any "extras" to your bloom formula or just the micro and bloom? I've used the koolbloom's for a while and was woundering about it with the lucas formula. any up dates on the next run?


*
Funny that you should ask.* I am using potash+ on this run, along with the Lucas Formula. Potash plus adds some extra phosphorus but a lot of extra potassium. The NPK ratio is .7-4-11 so it has just a little nitrogen but provides extra multi-source phosphorus and a nice kick of potassium.







I have read a lot of literature on pot growing that states potassium (the 'K' in NPK) is just as important as P in bloom and that extra potassium during budding will increase bud size considerably. Im still running at 1300 PPM but 100 PPM of that is Potash Plus. Im at 19 days now and the main difference is more a pronounced stretch. We will see what they look like in the end.


----------



## fatguyinaliitecoat (Jan 27, 2010)

What about the Technaflora Awesome Blossom that came with your kit?? Did you try it? It looks like the "P" and "K" levels are high without adding too much nitrogen (2-11-11). Just wondering.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Jan 27, 2010)

fatguyinaliitecoat said:


> What about the Technaflora Awesome Blossom that came with your kit?? Did you try it? It looks like the "P" and "K" levels are high without adding too much nitrogen (2-11-11). Just wondering.


I havent used any of that Awesome Bloom stuff from the kit. I will probabally use it at some point. 

I am more interested in the extra 'K' right now which is why I went with the potash plus.


----------



## Odis (Jan 29, 2010)

Thanks for the reply ! 

I also have a ebb&Gro. I have only completed 1 grow in it so far, but I have just started the second round with it. I had some problems first time around but still had a completion and not a bad harvest. The first round i did have problems with root rot. as soon as the plants developed roots down into the bottom bucket it appered. I did have an air stone in the rez tank at the time, I was able to hit them with some h202 and I put some small air stones in the bottom bucket, thinking that this might be the problem with the roots sitting in that left over water after the flood cycle. The plants did recover shortly after that and havent had the problem since. 

This was really my first exsperance with the lovely clay rocks.. Yuck! they are just a pain! So, This time around I thought I would try the Sure to Grow media, Just so easy... I couldnt resist. about 2lb VS. 100+lb of rocks? right up my lazy ass Stoner alley! anyway i thought i would make some other mods. to the system wile i was at it. So I said Im gona make sure theres some air to those roots and put a 4" round air stone in the bottom of each of those buckets! and did.. with a nice big air pump and a 12 valve manifiold. I also decided to place each bucket on a 1" peice of insulation foam. Now with this STG I was also worried that the light might shine down thru it and start the algee going so I had some old peices of kork board and cut round discs that will fit in the bucket on top of the STG insert to block the light, also coverd them with white plastic to relect the light.. sure that will do a buch HA.. Anyway I just put some newly rooted clones in there about 11 days ago. just bumped the nutz to 600PPM and there starting to get there first growth spurt. I orderd the STG inserts awile ago and could not find any reveiws on them at the time. now I have come acrossed a few comments about them. first of all they seem to compress an 1"or 2" after they get good and wet. wich i had read. and they do seem to retain alot of water. I think they will be fine with a tweak here and there. To early to know what problems down the road will bring at this point. Now I will say, that with the big air stones in the buckets that..hu, I did make a mess in the room the first few floods cycles, there is enogh air in there to lift the top buckets up and spurt water all over hell ! HAAHa! luckly I had put a control valve on each air line so i could turn it down some. But I really think its mainly because the air dosent move thru the STG quickly enough for it to escape out the top so the air builds up under the top bucket untill it lifts it up, and blurp.Blurp.. it comes out the side along with some water. I dont think this would be a problem with the rocks. The last round i could clear back the top layer of rocks and see the nice little bubbles poping around in the rocks from the small air stones. Im sure this is much better. but Im determend to make this STG work. I think they all ready have some 1" cubes that you use to just fill your bucket up with. maybe it will be the way to go. ether way im gona back out on the rocks for awile. or a least till I know the STG dosent work. We shall See.. O and I am also useing the Lucus formula, this time and past grow. seems to work just fine...

Let us all know how you like the POTASH and thanks again!


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Jan 30, 2010)

Odis said:


> Thanks for the reply !
> 
> I also have a ebb&Gro. I have only completed 1 grow in it so far, but I have just started the second round with it. I had some problems first time around but still had a completion and not a bad harvest. The first round i did have problems with root rot. as soon as the plants developed roots down into the bottom bucket it appered. I did have an air stone in the rez tank at the time, I was able to hit them with some h202 and I put some small air stones in the bottom bucket, thinking that this might be the problem with the roots sitting in that left over water after the flood cycle. The plants did recover shortly after that and havent had the problem since.
> 
> ...


Keep us posted on how the STG works out. I have never had root rot but I use a lot of H2O2 so it isnt an issue. Ive never grown in anything other than hydroton and yes, it is a bitch to deal with. Hard to clean, lotta work.


----------



## Odis (Jan 30, 2010)

I dont find alot of time to post, but i will update when i can. i can tell you that the rez tank, control bucket, is SO much cleaner with the STG. If it stays like this thur out the grow.. then clean up for the next crop will be a snap. flush good and should be ready to roll again. no unhooking everything and hand washing. Hey we can alway dream! 

testing flood level and air stone in pic. 

what do you think about flood times? Im wondering if i couldn't flood alot more often with this much airation in the buckets? like a 15min every hr. about the same as a bubble ponics now.. currantly im only flooding twice a day


----------



## Odis (Jan 30, 2010)

here's a currant photo. not a very good pic.. it's from a camera phone, but you can see there starting to take off. The white you see in the buckets is not the STG, its the covers i put over them to block some of the light.


----------



## derk79 (Jan 30, 2010)

i heard that sure to grow had bad mold problems if you do some looking you will find the threads


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Jan 31, 2010)

fatguyinaliitecoat said:


> What about the Technaflora Awesome Blossom that came with your kit?? Did you try it? It looks like the "P" and "K" levels are high without adding too much nitrogen (2-11-11). Just wondering.


Well I found out what using a blossom booster with Lucas does. It locks out some unknown trace nutrient. The oldest shade leaves on the Blueberries are turning yellow between the veins, and it is spreading upward on the oldest shaders.

I did a half change out of the reservoir, actually a 2/3 change out. Pumped out roughly 2/3 of the reservoir and refilled it and just added Lucas. My reservoir change day is not for three more days and I didnt feel like going through all the cleaning with a full change out.


----------



## Bob Smith (Feb 1, 2010)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Well I found out what using a blossom booster with Lucas does. It locks out some unknown trace nutrient. The oldest shade leaves on the Blueberries are turning yellow between the veins, and it is spreading upward on the oldest shaders.
> 
> I did a half change out of the reservoir, actually a 2/3 change out. Pumped out roughly 2/3 of the reservoir and refilled it and just added Lucas. My reservoir change day is not for three more days and I didnt feel like going through all the cleaning with a full change out.


Interesting...........was thinking of going with Atami's Bloombastic as an additive for this round, but remember reading specifically in the "Ask Lucas" thread numerous times that additives are not only not beneficial, but they're actually harmful because Lucas has everything your plant needs already.

Greenthumb, did you ever try vegging with Lucas, or have you always run the 3-2-1 formula? If the former, why did you stop?


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Feb 1, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Interesting...........was thinking of going with Atami's Bloombastic as an additive for this round, but remember reading specifically in the "Ask Lucas" thread numerous times that additives are not only not beneficial, but they're actually harmful because Lucas has everything your plant needs already.
> 
> Greenthumb, did you ever try vegging with Lucas, or have you always run the 3-2-1 formula? If the former, why did you stop?


Ive never vegged with Lucas. I still have about a half gallon of the grow lying around and will do the 3-2-1 until it is gone, then I might give lucas a shot on vegetative. Just seems a lot of P for vegetative stage.


----------



## Odis (Feb 1, 2010)

I am using the lucas fomula during veg and it seems to work just fine. Now, I dont have alot of exsperance, and I started with the lucus fomula so i have nothing to compare it with. veg and flower r the same mix.. 1part micro 2 parts bloom, just a bit stronger mix for bloom. 

So if you do try the lucas for veg next round, Please let us know your results.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Feb 1, 2010)

Odis said:


> I am using the lucas fomula during veg and it seems to work just fine. Now, I dont have alot of exsperance, and I started with the lucus fomula so i have nothing to compare it with. veg and flower r the same mix.. 1part micro 2 parts bloom, just a bit stronger mix for bloom.
> 
> So if you do try the lucas for veg next round, Please let us know your results.


Hey, if you can upload any pics of your girls vegging using the Lucas Formula we would all like to see them. We love pictures!


----------



## Bob Smith (Feb 1, 2010)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Hey, if you can upload any pics of your girls vegging using the Lucas Formula we would all like to see them. We love pictures!


I used Lucas for vegging for the grow I just completed; no complaints, and no deficiencies that I noticed.

That being said, I think I might go back to using the flora line instead of the nova line - the nova is just so damn thick and heavy that I get worried about it settling on the bottom of my reservoir.

Also going to be changing my rez every two weeks this grow, so the savings from using the flora line aren't gonna be too bad, either.

Also, when I get my new setup up and running (a few months, gonna be 4 600s covering 4 3x3 trays, running off of two reservoirs for experimentation purposes, two trays per 70 gallon reservoir), I'm gonna do some comparison grows/experiments, and one of them will be vegging with Lucas vs. GH's recommended vegging formulation.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Feb 1, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> I used Lucas for vegging for the grow I just completed; no complaints, and no deficiencies that I noticed.
> 
> That being said, I think I might go back to using the flora line instead of the nova line - the nova is just so damn thick and heavy that I get worried about it settling on the bottom of my reservoir.
> 
> ...


One thing about waiting between change outs: I started having deficiencies at about two weeks on my first ebb and grow crop. If you see any discoloration or weird growth, change out the res immediately.

You should do a journal on your next grow.


----------



## Bob Smith (Feb 2, 2010)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> One thing about waiting between change outs: I started having deficiencies at about two weeks on my first ebb and grow crop. If you see any discoloration or weird growth, change out the res immediately.
> 
> You should do a journal on your next grow.


Yeah, I didn't notice any deficiencies, per se, but I'd like to try changing every two weeks and see what that does for me.

I have a journal for the grow I just completed (in sig), and my next journal will start in about a week, when I've switched to 12/12 (hopefully).

Rooting 196 clones right now and the best 144 will be flowered out in my 4x4 tray - gonna be a tight fit, should be interesting.


----------



## Odis (Feb 2, 2010)

I put the clones in on the 18th and gave them plain water for a week as you sugested. so they have been getting nutz for what.. 8 days. im up to 700 PPM was going to change rez today but looks like it will be tomorrow. not sure how well these photos are. color looks good just a tad on the dark side maybe, but not much. I am still very much a Green Horn.. do they look ok to you? can you tell from pic? seem to really be taking off..


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Feb 2, 2010)

Odis said:


> I put the clones in on the 18th and gave them plain water for a week as you sugested. so they have been getting nutz for what.. 8 days. im up to 700 PPM was going to change rez today but looks like it will be tomorrow. not sure how well these photos are. color looks good just a tad on the dark side maybe, but not much. I am still very much a Green Horn.. do they look ok to you? can you tell from pic? seem to really be taking off..


Picture didnt come through, upload them through the manage attachments applet. When they take off, you know it fer sure!


----------



## don2009 (Feb 2, 2010)

Hey greenthumb AWESOME thread!!!!! Very detail on reports this is a great learners guide, very helpful. Hey can you explain the lucas formula a little more detail I really want try that formula. What and how do you mix them? Is that the only formula nutes you use, besides h202 & cal-mag during flowering? Dame Icant belive you had no co2 also that is insane imaging when you get co2 WOW! Im very impressed with that results already wait tell you get that. They also grew crazy fast , I like the idea of you keeping the resivior pretty cool that make since with like the rain outside being pretty cool Thanks bro good luck


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Feb 3, 2010)

don2009 said:


> Hey greenthumb AWESOME thread!!!!! Very detail on reports this is a great learners guide, very helpful. Hey can you explain the lucas formula a little more detail I really want try that formula. What and how do you mix them? Is that the only formula nutes you use, besides h202 & cal-mag during flowering? Dame Icant belive you had no co2 also that is insane imaging when you get co2 WOW! Im very impressed with that results already wait tell you get that. They also grew crazy fast , I like the idea of you keeping the resivior pretty cool that make since with like the rain outside being pretty cool Thanks bro good luck


The Lucas Formula uses only the Micro and Bloom parts of the General Hydroponics three part Flora series fertilizer.

The Micro and Bloom are used at a 1:2 ratio
1 part Micro
2 parts Bloom

Micro and bloom are added at this ratio until the PPM is 1300. Every 2 or 3 days the reservoir is topped off and more micro and bloom are added at the 1:2 ratio to bring the PPM back up to 1300.

Every time you top off the reservoir you zero in on the 1300 PPM number.

The PPM can drift between 1200 and 1400 PPM between top offs.

Its that simple.

Here is the 'Ask Lucas' thread from Cannabis world, you should read the whole thing:

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=892

*Here is a more detailed explanation from a thread on this site:*

General Hydroponics Flora Series Feeding Strategy - Lucas Formula 

G-M-B (Grow-Micro-Bloom) 
0-5-10 - For Vegetative cycle (18/6) 
0-8-16 - For Flowering cycle (12/12) 

The numbers above indicate the number of milliliters (ml) of Flora Grow, Micro or Bloom formulas that I use in one gallon (US Liquid) of nutrients. 

You will notice I dont use any of the Flora Grow formula, do not need to, the Flora "Micro" provides plenty of Nitrogen. 

There are two ways to work with this formula: 

1. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected water solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. After adding back an amount of water equal to the amount of your reservoir capacity you should change the reservoir and put in fresh solution. 

2. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected 100% strength nutrient solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. Continue to use this nutrient solution without dumping the tank unless the PPM rises above acceptable levels. 

Between vegetative and flowering cycles you should dump your nutrients, then flush (possibly with Clearex) to remove salt buildups, then change to the other feeding program. Always shake your GH nutrient bottles before using them! 

For young plants, just transplanted into the hydro setup, give them 50% strength nutrient mix to prevent overfeeding them while their young. Gradually bring up the mix to full strength as they grow over the next few weeks or so. 

The lucas formula is normally intended for use with RO or near 0 PPM water. 

NOTE: The Lucas formula eliminates the need for Epsom salts to correct (Magnesium) Mg deficiencies in most normal feeding programs recommended by manufacturers. Cannabis needs a lot of Magnesium to thrive. 

The Flora Micro is providing the Nitrogen and the Magnesium in the proper balance, thus there is no need for the Grow formula and little or no room under the maximum acceptable ppm limit of 1600 @ 0.7 conversion. 

Calculated EC/TDS levels: 

EC microsiemen: 
0-4-8: 946 µS 
0-5-10: 1184 µS 
0-8-16: 1894 µS 

TDS @ 0.5 conversion: 
0-4-8 = 473 ppm 
0-5-10 = 592 ppm 
0-8-16 = 947 ppm 

TDS @ 0.7 conversion: 
0-4-8 = 663 ppm 
0-5-10 = 829 ppm 
0-8-16 = 1326 ppm 

Addback Calculator - (For Advanced Users) 

Say you were running the 0-8-16 formula, at 0.7 conversion with a 22 gallon res. When you first fill it up, your ppm will be around 1330. 

Now you have been growing for a week, and some of the water has been taken up by the plants, some has evaporated, and now your res is at 947 ppm. You need to get your ppm from 947 to 1330. Here is the equation: 

((target - current) / target) * 8 ml per gallon * res gallons = Flora Micro (ml) double this figure to get Flora Bloom (ml) 

Example: 

((1330 - 947) / 1330) * 8 * 22 
(383 / 1330) * 8 * 22 
0.3 * 8 * 22 = 53 ml Flora Micro 

53 ml Flora Micro, double that and you get 106 ml Flora Bloom. So 53 ml Flora Micro and 106 ml Flora Bloom to add back to your 22 gallon res to get you from 947 to 1330. 

Using Hard Water GH Micro 

I had been experimenting with using the Hard water Micro as a substitute for the normal Flora Micro, this to account for my hard 350 PPM water and the lack of a large enough RO filter at the time. It has worked well for me. I just kept my reservoir below 1150 PPM @ .5 conversion and its all good. 

One tip - do not pH down this stuff, the hard water micro will drop pH gradually over the next 24 hours, for example I mix up a batch, it is at like 6.2, the next day, its at 5.6-5.8 after running in the system for a while. If I pH downed that to 5.7 before putting it in the system, it ended up as low as 4.8-5.2 by the next day.


----------



## Odis (Feb 3, 2010)

Im sorry i didn't realize the pictures were not coming thur.. I was able to edit my last post. hope you can see them now? i guess you can only edit your last post?? I was just pasting the pics to the message, I could see them just fine..HA ! here is the pics from previous posts as well..


----------



## Odis (Feb 3, 2010)

I use the Lucas Formula for my soil plants as well.. Feed, water, water, feed.. Seems to work just as well in the soil.. for both veg and flower. Shes not as dark green as the photo appers. this is a Blue Berry about 2 weeks into flower. Lucas is all shes has ever had. What can i say I like Easy..


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 3, 2010)

Odis said:


> Im sorry i didn't realize the pictures were not coming thur.. I was able to edit my last post. hope you can see them now? i guess you can only edit your last post?? I was just pasting the pics to the message, I could see them just fine..HA ! here is the pics from previous posts as well..


Love the pics and it looks like you're well on your way. The only problem is, this is GreenThumbSucker's personal Grow Journal. This is a thread about HIS grow, not yours. We enjoy reading about your grow, but it would be more appropriate if you created your own journal. Thanks.


----------



## derk79 (Feb 3, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Love the pics and it looks like you're well on your way. The only problem is, this is GreenThumbSucker's personal Grow Journal. This is a thread about HIS grow, not yours. We enjoy reading about your grow, but it would be more appropriate if you created your own journal. Thanks.



hey pics are always good to look at so if greenthumb doesnt mind keep pics going!!!


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 3, 2010)

derk79 said:


> hey pics are always good to look at so if greenthumb doesnt mind keep pics going!!!


Pics ARE good (I believe I mentioned that before). But hijacking someone's thread isn't. If he wants a place to log his progress, he should create his own like everyone else does. I have posted pics in other threads but when I'm providing progress updates of my grow, they belong in my personal journal... not yours. I'm not trying to be a dick. Just mentioning the rules.


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Feb 3, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Pics ARE good (I believe I mentioned that before). But hijacking someone's thread isn't. If he wants a place to log his progress, he should create his own like everyone else does. I have posted pics in other threads but when I'm providing progress updates of my grow, they belong in my personal journal... not yours. I'm not trying to be a dick. Just mentioning the rules.


Its OK, I asked him to post them. I love pictures.

It would be nice to see a journal using sure to grow inserts with the ebb and grow though, now that you mention it.

Every grow journal adds more and more to the pool of knowledge shared by the community. All in the name of science!


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 3, 2010)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Its OK, I asked him to post them. I love pictures.
> 
> It would be nice to see a journal using sure to grow inserts with the ebb and grow though, now that you mention it.
> 
> Every grow journal adds more and more to the pool of knowledge shared by the community. All in the name of science!


I agree. I'll be first in line to watch your journal Odis. I would NOT be growing the nugs I am today without this community.  I love pictures too.


----------



## Odis (Feb 3, 2010)

Sorry guys.. I was not trying to highjack anyone's journal. I was just happy to run across GreenThumb because he is using the same system and basically the same nutz. I would love to do my own journal but i just dont have the time right now, to do it justice. so the best i can do is give an update now and then. and will do so here if GreenTS doesnt mind? And really the only reason i had given some info and pics was so GreenTS knew what i was using and if he had any suggestions that might help. So Thanks GreenTS ! for all the time and effort you have put into this journal it HAS help me!! And COME ON he had to tell me how to post the photo as it was!!! and you want me to do a journal? HA.,HA !!! I guess if GreenTS want to start a journal on how to post a journal..? But Please if there are, any of my posts that need to be removed please let me know how, and I will remove them..


----------



## don2009 (Feb 3, 2010)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> The Lucas Formula uses only the Micro and Bloom parts of the General Hydroponics three part Flora series fertilizer.
> 
> The Micro and Bloom are used at a 1:2 ratio
> 1 part Micro
> ...


WoW thanks for that info real helpful def +++rep


----------



## mr.smileyface (Feb 3, 2010)

My cousin did the lucas formula on outdoors and they turned out like shit. My miracle grow 15-30-15 did better than that formula. 
Why would you cut 1 of the 3 parts. WHy wouldnt you just get the two part?


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 3, 2010)

mr.smileyface said:


> My cousin did the lucas formula on outdoors and they turned out like shit. My miracle grow 15-30-15 did better than that formula.
> Why would you cut 1 of the 3 parts. WHy wouldnt you just get the two part?


There's this guy over in the Newbie section that claims to have the answers for EVERYTHING. Go test his knowledge 
https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/299020-test-my-knowlege-do-you.html


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Feb 4, 2010)

mr.smileyface said:


> My cousin did the lucas formula on outdoors and they turned out like shit. My miracle grow 15-30-15 did better than that formula.
> Why would you cut 1 of the 3 parts. WHy wouldnt you just get the two part?


When I grow outside I use miracle grow and just the bloom part of the GH flora when I flower.  Outdoors is a different animal.

Post all the updates you want here odis. 

Nice looking plants Smokingrubber, look to be about 3 or 4 weeks along? I too learned pretty much everything I know about hydroponics either here or at cannabisculture.com


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 4, 2010)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Nice looking plants Smokingrubber, look to be about 3 or 4 weeks along? I too learned pretty much everything I know about hydroponics either here or at cannabisculture.com


Yep, 4 weeks in!  I have a fat doobie for ya bro  Good eye. She's not quite "porn" yet ... but I have high hopes.


----------



## Odis (Feb 5, 2010)

well thank you GreenTS ! I'll try to do just that..


----------



## Odis (Feb 10, 2010)

Just a quick update. its been 8 days since the first photos. so far kick'n butt ! no isues with the STG so far.. GreenTS I have noticed that the plants droop pretty bad about an hr before lights out. i have been playing with flood times and was up to 6 floods per day last one about 1 1/2hr before lights out. thought the drooping was due to over flooding but now im down to 3 times a day and the last flood 2 1/2 before lights out. and they still have the droop same time every day? they have been doing this the whole time regardless of flood times started out with 1 flood per day. By morning and when the lights kick on there back up preky and grown like mad? hell i swear i can go in and there bigger every hr. 
should i be worried about the drooping at the end of light cycle?? they all do it and i have 3 dif starins going?? 

Thanks again for letting me post here and Thanks a whole BUNCH for all your help!!!!!!


----------



## johnnyredbook (Feb 12, 2010)

Hey Greenthumb, thanks for the great info in your journal. You said you used the 3-2-1 for Vegging. What exactly is the amount you gave? So the formula GMB for Lucas is normally 0 8 16 respectively for bloom. That means 0 of the grow formula, 8 ml/gallon of the Micro formula, and 16 ml/gallon of the Bloom formula. Can you give me the amount you are using? Thanks again and keep up the good work.


----------



## milehigh970 (Feb 13, 2010)

Nice yield gts! When he said he uses the 3 2 1 for veg he means 3ml/gl grow, 2ml/gl micro, and 1ml/gl bloom...


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Feb 16, 2010)

johnnyredbook said:


> Hey Greenthumb, thanks for the great info in your journal. You said you used the 3-2-1 for Vegging. What exactly is the amount you gave? So the formula GMB for Lucas is normally 0 8 16 respectively for bloom. That means 0 of the grow formula, 8 ml/gallon of the Micro formula, and 16 ml/gallon of the Bloom formula. Can you give me the amount you are using? Thanks again and keep up the good work.


3-2-1 = 3 parts grow, 2 parts micro, 1 part bloom (parts in my case being tablespoons). 

I go by ppm, not ML. When using 3-2-1 I go between 500 ppm and 800 ppm.

With Lucas I just keep adding fertilizer at 1 part micro to 2 parts bloom until the PPM hits 1300. That is 1300 with a .7 meter. On a .5 meter it is about 930 ppm.

Most meters in the US are .7 meters.


----------



## Holamikey (Feb 18, 2010)

Excellent journal! Great yield, man! I'm going to be using the Lucas formula under 600w indoors in a tent using all
dwc. I have one question, my tent is 32x32x63 and I was wondering, four plants, five plants or 6 plants? I was thinking one towards each corner and one in the middle. 5 gallon dwc, black buckets and tops. I'm not sure wha strain yet but it will definitely be 4 solid indicas and hopefully one sativa for headstash. Thoghts?


----------



## Odis (Feb 18, 2010)

So much for no problems with the STG... The plants started off so good too.. its a BUST the stuff does not drain got the rot and now they are going to hell. i have been flushing with ro water and h202 but i dont think they will make it. i have lifted the inserts up and put some clay rocks under them hoping that will help, but not much hope. I check them 6hr after flood, lifted the top bucket to see how much would drained out, not a drop until you tip the bucket to one side and then it just runs out. the roots cant even penatrate the stuff they find there way to the sides and work down but you have a 2" layer of water at the bottom of the SURE NOT TO GROW inserts.. that will not drain at all.. back to the rocks for me!! bummer ! guess i had to try..so pissed !


----------



## derk79 (Feb 19, 2010)

yeah thats what i heard on that shit but as usual if it sounds to good it is!! plus that shits expensive$$$$$$$$$


Odis said:


> So much for no problems with the STG... The plants started off so good too.. its a BUST the stuff does not drain got the rot and now they are going to hell. i have been flushing with ro water and h202 but i dont think they will make it. i have lifted the inserts up and put some clay rocks under them hoping that will help, but not much hope. I check them 6hr after flood, lifted the top bucket to see how much would drained out, not a drop until you tip the bucket to one side and then it just runs out. the roots cant even penatrate the stuff they find there way to the sides and work down but you have a 2" layer of water at the bottom of the SURE NOT TO GROW inserts.. that will not drain at all.. back to the rocks for me!! bummer ! guess i had to try..so pissed !


----------



## don2009 (Feb 22, 2010)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> 3-2-1 = 3 parts grow, 2 parts micro, 1 part bloom (parts in my case being tablespoons).
> 
> I go by ppm, not ML. When using 3-2-1 I go between 500 ppm and 800 ppm.
> 
> ...


Hey ppm is for the meter and ML is that the little glass you use for the nutes? I was thinking of using ML due to prices for the ppm meter if its cheap I will get a ppm meter you know a cheap place I can get one? Or can you explain the diffrence between ppm and ML? I'm doing flood & Drain also you said General hydro GH is good for nutes, (lucas fomula)? The 3 part series but only use the micro and bloom no grow? So I wouldnt need to buy grow? Thanks alot you really helped out a great deal.


----------



## Blue Moonshine1 (Feb 24, 2010)

great grow man!!!! our ebb & flow is on its way!!! i cant wait!


----------



## Bob Smith (Feb 24, 2010)

don2009 said:


> Hey ppm is for the meter and ML is that the little glass you use for the nutes? I was thinking of using ML due to prices for the ppm meter if its cheap I will get a ppm meter you know a cheap place I can get one? Or can you explain the diffrence between ppm and ML? I'm doing flood & Drain also you said General hydro GH is good for nutes, (lucas fomula)? The 3 part series but only use the micro and bloom no grow? So I wouldnt need to buy grow? Thanks alot you really helped out a great deal.


If using Lucas from seed, no, you don't need any FloraGro from GH.

mL are milliliters, a unit for measuring liquid volume.

PPM is short for parts per million, which is a measure of the strength of a solution.

You don't need a PPM meter when using the Lucas formula, but you should have a decent measuring device for mL.

Assuming you change yoour rez every two weeks, you'll be fine with just topping off with water in the interim and shouldn't need a PPM meter.


----------



## don2009 (Feb 24, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> If using Lucas from seed, no, you don't need any FloraGro from GH.
> 
> mL are milliliters, a unit for measuring liquid volume.
> 
> ...


Hey thanks Bob Smith That makes since I got a shot glass with ML measurements so that should work Hey I havent seen you around often you must of harvest not to long ago lol Thanks again


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Feb 25, 2010)

Odis said:


> So much for no problems with the STG... The plants started off so good too.. its a BUST the stuff does not drain got the rot and now they are going to hell. i have been flushing with ro water and h202 but i dont think they will make it. i have lifted the inserts up and put some clay rocks under them hoping that will help, but not much hope. I check them 6hr after flood, lifted the top bucket to see how much would drained out, not a drop until you tip the bucket to one side and then it just runs out. the roots cant even penatrate the stuff they find there way to the sides and work down but you have a 2" layer of water at the bottom of the SURE NOT TO GROW inserts.. that will not drain at all.. back to the rocks for me!! bummer ! guess i had to try..so pissed !


One thing I really love about Hydroton is the fact that it really doesnt hold water. It gets wet but doesnt sponge it up. When the cycle ebbs, the roots are wet but they are also directly exposed to some air.

The only thing I dont like about hydroton is CLEANING it.

Here is a video on using STG with the Ebb and Grow system:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-CM2-lk1Q0


----------



## Odis (Feb 26, 2010)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> One thing I really love about Hydroton is the fact that it really doesnt hold water. It gets wet but doesnt sponge it up. When the cycle ebbs, the roots are wet but they are also directly exposed to some air.
> 
> The only thing I dont like about hydroton is CLEANING it.
> 
> ...


Yep its back to the rocks for sure! im still trying to bring them back to life. i had just started some new mothers and had already put the old ones in flower. so if there not back on track by the time the new moms are ready to give some clippings then i'll start over. lesson learned been running hygrozyme. to see if that will help but i still have to lift each bucket after a flood and set it on the bottom bucket at an angle to let the water drain out. there is enough water left in the stg that it raises the rez tank about 2" after i let them drain. and thats with 2" of rocks under the stg and with the buckets raised 1" ! I think if they would have cut the stuff the other direction it might have drained better. but im done with it, cost way to much to have a crop fail like this. ill put my effort into finding an easier way to clean the rocks from now on! LOL !


----------



## fatguyinaliitecoat (Mar 9, 2010)

Hey GTS, I have a question for you. Earlier you said that you would change res every 1 -2 weeks or untill the ph would stop rising. My question is about the ph part. Why is it that the ph does stop rising? What does that signify? Thanks for the help.


----------



## kovo (Mar 23, 2010)

hey green thumb sucker have you got your next grow up and running? will you be posting a journal? i hope so pce


----------



## dmoose (Mar 23, 2010)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> The Lucas Formula uses only the Micro and Bloom parts of the General Hydroponics three part Flora series fertilizer.
> 
> The Micro and Bloom are used at a 1:2 ratio
> 1 part Micro
> ...


Just a Quick note about LUCAS VEG FORMULA.... There is no Lucas Veg Formula! I dont know why everyone keeps repeating it over and over, because it is INCORRECT. I suffered with crazy deficiencies and Lockout from starving my plants until I finally found Lucas's Thread you posted above. Post 27 by Lucas himself states.......

" Im glad you asked about that, because Ive been meaning to talk a bit about vegetative nutes. btw, before I blaze ahead, *I dont recommend 0-5-10 as a veg formula* actually, I only recommend it as a low light formula.. "

I hope Noone else makes that mistake! But if nothing else, it proves you cant believe everything you read on the Forums, this one cost me dearly! I find there is no reason to sway from GH's Formula for veg. I have had success flowering with GH's 12/12 Formula (1tsp-2tsp-3tsp), and Lucas Formula (0-8ml-16ml), Both work Great!


----------



## LEDZEP (Mar 23, 2010)

dmoose said:


> Just a Quick note about LUCAS VEG FORMULA.... There is no Lucas Veg Formula! I dont know why everyone keeps repeating it over and over, because it is INCORRECT. I suffered with crazy deficiencies and Lockout from starving my plants until I finally found Lucas's Thread you posted above. Post 27 by Lucas himself states.......
> 
> " Im glad you asked about that, because Ive been meaning to talk a bit about vegetative nutes. btw, before I blaze ahead, *I dont recommend 0-5-10 as a veg formula* actually, I only recommend it as a low light formula.. "
> 
> I hope Noone else makes that mistake! But if nothing else, it proves you cant believe everything you read on the Forums, this one cost me dearly! I find there is no reason to sway from GH's Formula for veg. I have had success flowering with GH's 12/12 Formula (1tsp-2tsp-3tsp), and Lucas Formula (0-8ml-16ml), Both work Great!


 
I did the same thing, trying to veg with the lucas formula, then I switched after reading it only works as a bloom formula. I was noticing some problems so I switched, I'm glad you posted this to clear the air.


----------



## Str8Dank (Mar 23, 2010)

ummm just ran lucas and so did a friend with 3 different strains in ebb and grow and used it in veg and everything looked GREAT! issues came at about week 4 of flower, now i'm on to the whole House and Garden Aqua Flakes lineup...


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Apr 1, 2010)

Str8Dank said:


> ummm just ran lucas and so did a friend with 3 different strains in ebb and grow and used it in veg and everything looked GREAT! issues came at about week 4 of flower, now i'm on to the whole House and Garden Aqua Flakes lineup...


Just got back from Panama. Wife and I spent a month there. I might do another journal, just put some cuttings into the system. 

House and Garden Aqua Flake? never heard of that. Do a journal on it!!


----------



## CLOSETGROWTH (Apr 2, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Love the pics and it looks like you're well on your way. The only problem is, this is GreenThumbSucker's personal Grow Journal. This is a thread about HIS grow, not yours. We enjoy reading about your grow, but it would be more appropriate if you created your own journal. Thanks.


Whats the big deal smokingrubber? 

He's running the lucas method, let him show his single pic... Jeez. 

By the way, it looks great!


----------



## researchkitty (Apr 2, 2010)

If the thread owner is angry about someone posting pictures in his thread, let him tell the guy. He doesnt need another reader scolding another reader in his thread. He da man in this one not anyone else! 

.......on Lucas and vegging, people commonly say that they screw up using Lucas formula for vegging. Those are the people who read page one of the thread and skipped the other 3 years worth of posts in it by Lucas. Read the whole thing and you'll notice many many updates and many changing values!


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Apr 4, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> If the thread owner is angry about someone posting pictures in his thread, let him tell the guy. He doesnt need another reader scolding another reader in his thread. He da man in this one not anyone else!
> 
> .......on Lucas and vegging, people commonly say that they screw up using Lucas formula for vegging. Those are the people who read page one of the thread and skipped the other 3 years worth of posts in it by Lucas. Read the whole thing and you'll notice many many updates and many changing values!


I have a gallon of the GH grow. Til that is gone, it is 3-2-1 for vegetative. One of these days I will try to do a pure Lucas grow, start to finish, and journal it.


----------



## IGroWhErwAterflo (Apr 25, 2010)

Very nice !!!


----------



## GreenThumbSucker (Jun 14, 2010)

IGroWhErwAterflo said:


> Very nice !!!


Lucas Formula Video:

[video=youtube;Fft1DT4L2CU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fft1DT4L2CU[/video]


----------



## don2009 (Jun 14, 2010)

Somethings wrong with the vid bro.


----------



## kovo (Aug 31, 2010)

Hey GTS wat was the strain you used for this grow i'm following it like the bible. If i can produce anything similar to the yeild of this grow i'l be one happy chappy cheers.


----------



## WEED NINJA (Sep 23, 2010)

kovo said:


> Hey GTS wat was the strain you used for this grow i'm following it like the bible. If i can produce anything similar to the yeild of this grow i'l be one happy chappy cheers.


 you must hate reading the bible cause the strains are on his first page


----------



## axl (Oct 10, 2010)

great thread qnd grow..


----------



## cgrizzle3 (Oct 11, 2010)

Man, this is right up my ally, im doing about the same thing...


----------



## InsaneMJ (Oct 15, 2010)

Im starting a new room with 4x1000w lights and 36 plants. ive been reading this forum to help me get a grasp of what it will be like since it is my first time using this particular method. ive used the ebb and flow method for 3 years and always gotten great success so i cant wait to see the amount it may increase.


----------



## cgrizzle3 (Oct 24, 2010)

When i told the guy at the local hydro shop about the lucas method, he never heard of it. I actually read the whole article by lucas humself on cannabis world webstie, and i understand the basics of using the formula. My question is, what about the pk boost for budding? Isnt this neccessary to get the biggest fattest buds possible? Also, what is best for vegging? Lucas himself says that the 0-8-16 can be used in vegging, but there is better nutrients for vegging than that. If any of you lucas experts can help me i would greatly appreciate it. Thanks


----------



## frogster (Nov 25, 2010)

crizzle3... GTS mentions this in the thread... he tried pk boost on the next grow,, (not this one) and it nute locked .... he did a partial flush, and did a complete flush a few days later.


----------



## Emerald Isles (Nov 26, 2010)

Only came across this thread yesterday, amazing results GreenThumbSucker, I shall incorporate many of your methods once I switch my babies in a week or so.... You gave us hope for pain free growing, 
Should you every require a Tenant, I'm the man


----------



## frogster (Nov 27, 2010)

5.8lb yield.94.8oz?... .... really nice journal,,,, is your math correct? 21oz from the 4 dynamite (5+oz per), almost 12oz from the 5 ak-47.(2.4oz per).. (9 of your 15 plants=33oz) then in the final 8 dried in post #119... 8? the weight is 54oz or 6.75oz each.... well we know 4 dynamite and the 5 ak = 33oz, so the six others were 61.8oz? or 10.3 oz each.....SKUNK #11, Super strain? or fuzzy math? even if I add in the 54oz (8!) plants in the post#119 with the 9 (4dynamite and 5ak) that is 87oz.... well, must be potent ... why such a low yield on the ak-47?


----------



## cgrizzle3 (Nov 28, 2010)

frogster said:


> 5.8lb yield.94.8oz?... .... really nice journal,,,, is your math correct? 21oz from the 4 dynamite (5+oz per), almost 12oz from the 5 ak-47.(2.4oz per).. (9 of your 15 plants=33oz) then in the final 8 dried in post #119... 8? the weight is 54oz or 6.75oz each.... well we know 4 dynamite and the 5 ak = 33oz, so the six others were 61.8oz? or 10.3 oz each.....SKUNK #11, Super strain? or fuzzy math? even if I add in the 54oz (8!) plants in the post#119 with the 9 (4dynamite and 5ak) that is 87oz.... well, must be potent ... why such a low yield on the ak-47?


 I know yall will thinkim crazy, but i grew a plant last crop that yielded over 28 ounces, by itself! I dont know how, but i was really looking into using the lucas formula and switching from foc farm, but after that, how can i? Do you guys beleive that it was just the strain? or was it the hydro? Or the fox farm? the seeds were From a free mix from Vancouver seed company, so i dont know exactly which strain it was, but i do know it was atleast half "Fucking Incredible". What do yall think? Just look at the buds in the picture..And the 28 ounces...was with having to throw away about 2 ounces of bud rot. The biggest bud was bugger than 3 2 liter bottles end on end.


----------



## don2009 (Nov 28, 2010)

cgrizzle3 said:


> View attachment 1292436
> I know yall will thinkim crazy, but i grew a plant last crop that yielded over 28 ounces, by itself! I dont know how, but i was really looking into using the lucas formula and switching from foc farm, but after that, how can i? Do you guys beleive that it was just the strain? or was it the hydro? Or the fox farm? the seeds were From a free mix from Vancouver seed company, so i dont know exactly which strain it was, but i do know it was atleast half "Fucking Incredible". What do yall think? Just look at the buds in the picture..And the 28 ounces...was with having to throw away about 2 ounces of bud rot. The biggest bud was bugger than 3 2 liter bottles end on end.


Nice was it indoor or outdoor if indoor what was your light set up,what is your whole set up?


----------



## cgrizzle3 (Nov 28, 2010)

don2009 said:


> Nice was it indoor or outdoor if indoor what was your light set up,what is your whole set up?


It was 2-1000 watt lights, fox farm 6 part nutrients, ebb and flow table, silica, and super thrive. I also had co2, and i controlled the enviroment perfectly with air conditioner, humidifer, dehumidifer, heater, the whole 9 yards. I used a 3x8 flood table, with 20 plants. It was way overcrowded, so the plants on the same side of table as this monster got drowned out, but on the other side, i still had multiple plants yield over 4 ounces a piece. I jsut wnat to know if its the genetics, or what i did with enviroment and nutrients that made thsi such a monster.


----------



## don2009 (Nov 28, 2010)

cgrizzle3 said:


> It was 2-1000 watt lights, fox farm 6 part nutrients, ebb and flow table, silica, and super thrive. I also had co2, and i controlled the enviroment perfectly with air conditioner, humidifer, dehumidifer, heater, the whole 9 yards. I used a 3x8 flood table, with 20 plants. It was way overcrowded, so the plants on the same side of table as this monster got drowned out, but on the other side, i still had multiple plants yield over 4 ounces a piece. I jsut wnat to know if its the genetics, or what i did with enviroment and nutrients that made thsi such a monster.


 WoW you did your thing man ++ rep I think it is 50/50 Nute set up sounds legit and once you got the eniviorment co2 and shit down pack your golden, and I think geneitics got a lot to do with it to. hey what did you keep your temps at? Day and night?


----------



## cgrizzle3 (Nov 28, 2010)

don2009 said:


> WoW you did your thing man ++ rep I think it is 50/50 Nute set up sounds legit and once you got the eniviorment co2 and shit down pack your golden, and I think geneitics got a lot to do with it to. hey what did you keep your temps at? Day and night?


I was keeping them around 85 with co2 in the day time, and 70 in the night. But one bud started to foxtail, and i cut the temps down to around 75-80 int he day with the co2. I am glad you beleive me on this plant, because i started a thread and i got this asshole naysaying even though i have tons of pictures up. Come check it out.


----------



## don2009 (Nov 28, 2010)

cgrizzle3 said:


> I was keeping them around 85 with co2 in the day time, and 70 in the night. But one bud started to foxtail, and i cut the temps down to around 75-80 int he day with the co2. I am glad you beleive me on this plant, because i started a thread and i got this asshole naysaying even though i have tons of pictures up. Come check it out.


 Wheres the link i'll head over there ?


----------



## cgrizzle3 (Nov 28, 2010)

Sorry to sound like a noob, but, i am, lol. How do i send you a link?


don2009 said:


> Wheres the link i'll head over there ?


----------



## cgrizzle3 (Nov 28, 2010)

https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/388021-has-anyones-plants-yielded-over.html


don2009 said:


> Wheres the link i'll head over there ?


----------



## frogster (Nov 28, 2010)

Yea, well, your 28oz plant is in serious question,,,, lets see the clones grow, and then you will have more credibility... I cant really judge by the pics, nor the video you posted...


----------



## midwestfunkmaster (Dec 4, 2010)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> *This will be my first true grow journal. *
> 
> I have been growing off and on since the 1980s, but didn't begin toying with Hydroponics until last fall. I have successfully grown three crops hydroponically. I believe that I have the basics down enough to do a journal that you and I can learn from.
> *
> ...


I will be studying this journal, thanks.


----------



## midwestfunkmaster (Dec 4, 2010)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Four things I have noticed from going on too long between change outs using the Lucas Formula:
> 
> 1. Slower growth: The further away you get from a solution change out, the more lackluster the growth becomes.
> 
> ...


.............................


----------



## midwestfunkmaster (Dec 4, 2010)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Everything has dried. I ended up keeping a pound total. Everything else went to the dispensary.
> 
> The total finished weight is 94.8 oz or *5.8 lbs*. I got 5 lbs and 14.8 oz. The last eight plants yielded 54 oz or 6.75 oz per plant.
> 
> ...



great fucking job!!!

6lbs in about 9-10weeks of flowering or so


----------



## midwestfunkmaster (Dec 4, 2010)

I NEED to build one of these, does any one have an illustrated guide??


----------



## Kushmann1434 (Mar 4, 2011)

I am new to this ebb and grow system. Why do you only flood twice per day? Could this be the reason my plants look crappy? I started flooding every other hour and have since increased to every hour. I thought the whole process was about getting oxygen to the roots. When you only flood twice per day, how do the clones survive?

Thanks for your reply--I really need help from an expert!! =)


----------



## cgrizzle3 (Mar 4, 2011)

What kind of medium are you using? Hydroton, rockwool? I flood 4 times a day, only during the light cycle, and it works wonderfully for me. I use a ebb and grow bucket system with only hydroton.


Kushmann1434 said:


> I am new to this ebb and grow system. Why do you only flood twice per day? Could this be the reason my plants look crappy? I started flooding every other hour and have since increased to every hour. I thought the whole process was about getting oxygen to the roots. When you only flood twice per day, how do the clones survive?
> 
> Thanks for your reply--I really need help from an expert!! =)


----------



## Kushmann1434 (Mar 4, 2011)

cgrizzle3 said:


> What kind of medium are you using? Hydroton, rockwool? I flood 4 times a day, only during the light cycle, and it works wonderfully for me. I use a ebb and grow bucket system with only hydroton.


I am using rockwool cubes within a bed of hydroton. 12 bucket system. The rockwool cubes are just above the fill line.

Thank you for your quick response. I hope to get better results with the proper guidance. The Paki Kush is doing somewhat well, but other strains have already failed. I am using the nutrients that came with the system, but have had issues with pH. Currently the pH is 5.9. I am getting some burn on the tips of the leaves.


----------



## jackfrostking (Mar 4, 2011)

for all you people growing in hydroton if u have a pressure washer and a mesh clothes bag fill your hydroton in there and wash till clean or take to your local coin laundry as their machines are industrail and made to take small debree thru tie your back up and wash for 20 min good to go


----------



## InsaneMJ (Aug 11, 2011)

I veged my babies out with the lucas formula and they did great, Im running church og right now with the lucas formula and just switched it into the flowering stage.. I was curious on instead of running potash+ you could use liquid kool bloom then the dry koolbloom towards the last 2-3 weeks. Ive only used koolbloom an had pretty good success along with using the lucas formula at the same time.


----------



## thefr13nd (Dec 3, 2011)

How would I apply Lucas formula apply to seedlings and germination stage. First time grow looking for a couple answers.


----------



## Bluezdude (Dec 3, 2011)

thefr13nd said:


> How would I apply Lucas formula apply to seedlings and germination stage. First time grow looking for a couple answers.


You don't need any nutes during germination and the seedling stage. Just water


----------



## don2009 (Dec 4, 2011)

GREAT thread to step up your game.


----------



## buttrick (Jan 14, 2012)

awesome grow bro....... my goals have been set based on all the info here. 

I wanted to see if i could get some insight on molasses in the ebb, i get the theory behind the carbs, but i refuse to cough up cash on expensive " carboload" products. i have heard people that swear by it, and some that say its bad in the ebb. 

thoughts anyone?


----------



## buttrick (Jan 17, 2012)

eim starting to think its a stupid idea.molassesfeeds mainly bacteria. sounds unecessary in hydro


----------



## Richard Blaine (Apr 27, 2012)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Some people turn tomato cages upside down.
> 
> I get a metal plant stake and stick it into the hydroton right next to the main stalk and use long twist ties to attach it to the main cola.
> 
> ...


on the CAP site they show cages specifically designed to fit on the buckets


----------



## dontstop (Sep 6, 2012)

GreenThumbSucker post up what you've currently got going on with the multiple rooms and big flowering buckets! Some of us in this 15 plant state might like to know how to get bigger perpetual yields with this restriction on the number of the plants. I'm looking to switch from my perpetual soil grow to hydro and planning on doing something similar.


----------



## biglac (Oct 3, 2012)

has anyone ever done coco instead of hydroton?? thought it was a good idea...


----------



## Baldy979 (Oct 14, 2013)

Have u been using any other additives besides potash with Lucas formula?


----------



## plantastic (Nov 7, 2020)

Amazeballs grow.


----------

