# Clone Straight to Flower Photo Period



## dicyclesatina (Jul 21, 2007)

Hey, I'm new here and this is my first thread. I apologize if I didnt properly induct myself by posting in the "noobie" section..but anyways..
I saw an interesting technique used by the green house seed guys on one of their "Arjan Haze" sativa strains where they took a clone and threw her under a 12/12 cycle..no veg. The results were amazing. If this is possible to achieve by say a home grower (which I assume makes up the majority of this forum) it could greatly reduce the time and height it takes for a sativa to harvest. 
My question(s) are:
Is this realistic for a home grower?
Is this (sativa) strain specific? 
If so, why is it not a praised practice?

Here is the video. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvDfUY39fBc

Also check out their Arjan Haze #3 for all you sativa lovers.


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## recvryjst42day (Jul 21, 2007)

abudsmoker has a great post on perpetual harvest's, and he dips in his two cents, saying that is how he does the majority of his clones. It looks sweet. Check it out.


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## dicyclesatina (Jul 21, 2007)

How would I go about finding that particular post?


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## FilthyFletch (Jul 21, 2007)

This technique is an old and easy 1.Indoor growers use it in limited space grow areas.I use similar tech to early sex plants.I pull early clone from my big plants and label it corresponding to its original donor.I get the clone rooted about 3-5 day then toss it into 12/12 light.In 3-8 days it shows sex and if its a girl so was its original and now you have a confirmed female mom to yank your crops clones from


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## recvryjst42day (Jul 21, 2007)

dicyclesatina said:


> How would I go about finding that particular post?


 
It would have helped, had I known the correct thread starter! Its acctually by Al. B Fuct

if you go towards the top right hand side of the screen there a search option, click it the click advanced and you can search for almost anything!

heres the link


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## recvryjst42day (Jul 22, 2007)

No problem. Info good? Need anything else?


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## babygro (Jul 22, 2007)

dicyclesatina said:


> Is this realistic for a home grower?
> Is this (sativa) strain specific?
> If so, why is it not a praised practice?


A) Yes
B) No
C) It is standard practice - it's called SOG, Sea of Green. 

Let's clear up a few 'potential' misunderstandings here.

Putting clones into flower as soon as they've rooted is standard practice for people who have access to clones - the majority do not - which is why this practice might be new to you and not widely practiced. You can ONLY do this with clones - not plants from seed - most people grow from seed and not many have the resources to keep 'mother' plants where clones come from.

Why can you do this with clones and not from seed? You can do it from seed, but you won't get as good results from seed as you do from clones, principle reason being, clones are a lot more 'hardy' than new seed seedlings and most importantly of all, clones take on the 'genetic' age of the mother plant they're taken from, seed plants don't.

Why is the age of the mother plant important?

Plants should be flowered when they reach sexual maturity, flowering seed plants before 6-8 weeks vegetative growth have passed means you're flowering them before they've reached sexual maturity. When you flower a clone, as I said, it takes on the age of the mother plant. So if the mother plant is 8 weeks old - so is the clone. So the clone is ALREADY at sexual maturity despite only being a couple of inches tall and READY To be put into flowering regardless of it's size.

The most important reason of all is because the older a plant is, the more Cannabinoids it produces. A 12 week old plant will produce more Cannabinoids than an 8 week old plant, and an 8 week old clone will produce more Cannabinoids than a plant grown and flowered from seed.

So, the bottom line is this - clones can be treated as sexually mature plants, and can be flowered almost as soon as the clones have rooted - with no loss of potency that you would get if you tried to flower a seed plant before it was sexually mature.


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## dicyclesatina (Jul 22, 2007)

recvryjst42day said:


> No problem. Info good? Need anything else?


That about sums it up for this subject, thanks.

Info was perfect.


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## dicyclesatina (Jul 22, 2007)

babygro said:


> Let's clear up a few 'potential' misunderstandings here.


Thank you for that brilliant explanation. I never thought of a mature mother plant fulfilling the potential vegetative growth of the clone. I always thought of mothers as just donors, or maybe it was clones as tiny babies. Thanks again!
What a beautiful plant.


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## skunkushybrid (Jul 24, 2007)

Here's some pic's of mine. Not a single day of veg'. The three that are together are in a bubbler, the other 2 differing mixes of hydro medium. As you can see from the bubblers, 2 have taken off really well, the other has barely gotten as far as the hydro's.

These plants follow the indica line, much more than sativa. Maybe as much as 80%.

IMO it's best to give them at least 5 days veg' before placing them into flower. As it is quite hit and miss. I have actually done this before too, with exactly the same results. Some plants will do well and others won't, even when they are from the same mother.


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## nongreenthumb (Jul 24, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Here's some pic's of mine. Not a single day of veg'. The three that are together are in a bubbler, the other 2 differing mixes of hydro medium. As you can see from the bubblers, 2 have taken off really well, the other has barely gotten as far as the hydro's.
> 
> These plants follow the indica line, much more than sativa. Maybe as much as 80%.
> 
> IMO it's best to give them at least 5 days veg' before placing them into flower. As it is quite hit and miss. I have actually done this before too, with exactly the same results. Some plants will do well and others won't, even when they are from the same mother.


Thats top notch skunk, short plants are the nuts.


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## cali-high (Jul 24, 2007)

say i cloned and gave it 1 weeks veg then flowered under a 400w hps could i maybe pull and ozx off of it?


what would be a realistic yeild?


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## closet.cult (Jul 24, 2007)

thanks, skunk. and all others. i'm interested in this too but the zero veg days had me worried. i don't want to cut 20 clones and have only 10 survive. any tricks or tips?

BTW, how long do the roots get in DWC for these short plants? how big a root ball? also, if more then one plant in each DWC, how close can you get them to each other?


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## skunkushybrid (Jul 24, 2007)

closet.cult said:


> thanks, skunk. and all others. i'm interested in this too but the zero veg days had me worried. i don't want to cut 20 clones and have only 10 survive. any tricks or tips?
> 
> BTW, how long do the roots get in DWC for these short plants? how big a root ball? also, if more then one plant in each DWC, how close can you get them to each other?


I'll get back to this later with some specifics. Thing with the hit and miss is that they should all survive, it's just that some will grow quite big, maybe 12-18", others won't get past 6", and half of that will be stem. lol. I wouldn't bother, it's not a good idea, far better to give them some veg' time... even if it's only 5 days. I'll take a pic' of the rootball later along with some other specifics.

watch this space.


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## nongreenthumb (Jul 24, 2007)

I veg'd for a week after the roots had shown underneath the cube, my plants reach around 1ft tall, its bud from top to bottom and i cut 3 down yesterday and they weighed 10 oz wet so i would think an oz per plant is a reasonable estimate.


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## cali-high (Jul 24, 2007)

what did you flower under???


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## cali-high (Jul 24, 2007)

did you do soil


im gonna do the aeroponic cloner then transplant to soil then water and dont water again for like 3 days then veg for a week then flower.


im gonna be flowering under a 400w hps how much do you think i will yeild????


any help will be great


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## nongreenthumb (Jul 24, 2007)

They were rooted in rockwool in a propagator, they were fairly small at the time.

I veg'd for 1 week under 12 hours 250w cfl and 12 hours hps. Obviously at a relevant distance.

When they were put into flowering they went underneath 600w hps.


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## cali-high (Jul 24, 2007)

thanks for letting me know :0


i plan to veg under 4ft 2 bulb floro maybe 2 of em. and then after a week or longer put into the flowering room 

i will be happy with half an oz per plant if i get that...but i have a high yeilding strain so i expsect and aleast a 1/2 oz


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## skunkushybrid (Jul 25, 2007)

Both these pic's are of clones placed straight into flower. They are nearly 5 weeks in. They are also from the same mom and sharing a container. The first clone is around two inches high (bud length), and in the second pic' you can just see the root ball floating off to the left.

The third pic, the plant is around 10-12 inches high (bud height).

Two clones, from the exact same mom, given the same feed, in the same container. one takes off one doesn't. This is what I meant by hit and miss.


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## recvryjst42day (Jul 25, 2007)

When you guys say straight into flower is that straight from the cut or after it has successfully rooted....just thought about that feel stupid that I didnt ask before, just assumed straight from the cut.


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## skunkushybrid (Jul 25, 2007)

As soon as it's fully rooted. No veg' time.


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## closet.cult (Jul 26, 2007)

thanks for the info and pics skunk. +rep for always answering questions, dude.


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## clemgotti (Nov 8, 2007)

greenhouse puts arjans haze straight to flower because haze takes longer to flower (4 weeks longer)


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## LoudBlunts (Nov 8, 2007)

i mean all it takes is having a mother or two and taking large clones, possibly 6-8" clones if not bigger


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## Puffin Afatty (Nov 13, 2007)

some strains do well with little or no veg time...White Widow is 1, and the Snow White I have now is such a stretcher that I have to do a vertical scrog to grow it indoors at all...thru the whole flowering period I must tie her back...


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 13, 2007)

clemgotti said:


> greenhouse puts arjans haze straight to flower because haze takes longer to flower (4 weeks longer)


that was for a competition, to be finished in time... wasn't it? and that was straight from seed.


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## RaStAroots420 (Nov 16, 2007)

Hey, does anyone know a legit place to buy seeds online that will actually send you SEEDS and not and empty cd case?


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## ozone (Nov 22, 2007)

Vegging for at least one week is advisable even if your doing a SOG. I've got a couple of big bud clones that are only about 20cm tall and have vegged for about 10 days that I have placed under 12/12. Will be interesting.


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## iblazethatkush (Nov 22, 2007)

babygro said:


> Let's clear up a few 'potential' misunderstandings here.
> 
> Putting clones into flower as soon as they've rooted is standard practice for people who have access to clones - the majority do not - which is why this practice might be new to you and not widely practiced. You can ONLY do this with clones - not plants from seed - most people grow from seed and not many have the resources to keep 'mother' plants where clones come from.
> 
> ...


Ok I understand that if I flower my seed plants early I lose potency. But what about seeds from said seed plant. Will they be less potent b/c the mother was? Or will they have the same potential for thc production as a seed from a properly vegged mom?


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 22, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> Ok I understand that if I flower my seed plants early I lose potency. But what about seeds from said seed plant. Will they be less potent b/c the mother was? Or will they have the same potential for thc production as a seed from a properly vegged mom?


Not sure on the loss of potency in the first place... even if placed into flower early the plant will still need to mature to a point where it pre-flowers before it can adequately build the hormone to induce flowering. Also flowering is genetic, and trich's don't really start appearing until the second week of actual flower (not including the forced part in the time scale). Flowering is genetic, so once the plant starts flowering it should age the same no matter what.


Different subject:
I think I got it! The plants produce trich's to concentrate the light from the sun... some get cannabinised and start to age while the plant continues to form new unpotent trich's. The plant does this at night in preparation for the morning sun...


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## ozone (Nov 22, 2007)

Yeah I agree. I dont buy into the age = high potency thing. Its all about the variety and how long they have been flowering. I also skeptical that plants potency increases the longer it is in flowering. Sure size and fullness of the buds will increase but I'm not sure the potency increases much past 5 or 6 weeks.


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 23, 2007)

I think what happens after the 5/6 week stage is that the bud gets denser with trich's which in turn age and gain cannabinoids when the light is initiated. As the sun drops, or the light goes down the plant responds by producing lots of trich's that are merely for harnessing the luminosity of the sun and do not contain cannabinoids until they have been sufficiently aged by light, hence the need to keep creating more and more trich's.

So as the trich's increase in number, this is what leads to more potent bud, there are more potent trich's per space of bud. The correct combination of CONSISTENT light and dark. The question is... do these plants only produce unpotent trich's for a certain amount of dark time? Is there a sufficient amount of dark period we can give so that we may thouroughly achieve potent trich's with the correct levels of light?


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 23, 2007)

This might explain why cannabis still flowers in moonlight. 

Cannabis is not responding to the dark, but merely low levels of light.


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## newbutpersistent (Nov 23, 2007)

Yes, I agree with skunk on the age-flowering-potency question. I put some seeds straight into my 12/12 as soon as they germ'd. No veg time at all. However they did not start flowering right away. I believe that the straight away 12/12 pushed they plants to grow faster, because they have genetic sensors telling them that the viable growing season is coming to a close, forcing they're growth to accelerate, however it wasn't until approx. 2-3 weeks that they showed sign of sex. 
There was a thread on here a while ago arguing whether or not to start counting flowering period from switch to 12/12 photo period, or from the first signs of flower.
I would say the plants may not bud to their full potential (in terms of actual bud mass) if they are not allowed enough veg time to pre-flower, however I do not belive that the potency is affected. 
Of course, none of us will really know until some tests are done with comparisons of cannabinoid levels, however that is probably not going to happen for a while. Unless some one on here has equipment to test that.
My 2 oldest plants just passed the three week mark and seem to be starting to fatten up, so i think end of week 5 I'll start sampling, I'll let y'all know how it is .

There are 2 pics of the older plants, and a pic of 2 of my new plants. They seem to be pretty happy and healthy, They've also changed quite a bit as these pics are probably a week old.


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 24, 2007)

Isn't cannabis amazing... even if a seed germs right at the end of the season, so long as it has sufficient light levels, it is still capable of maturing and developing seed. Obviously will be nowhere near as big, or yielding as a plant that had a decent photoperiod, but capable all the same... and just as potent.

This makes sense... as during the flowering months, there are low levels of sunlight. trich's are produced to MAGNIFY this dwindling light. Which explains the massive growth rates of the actual plants during flower.

As the sunlight reacts with the trich's during the day they are slowly cannabinised and put to other uses in the protection and pollenation of the plant. Cannabinoids do this by deterring and encouraging certain types of animal life. 

As these trich's are degraded and not very good at picking up the light, the plant must make more and more during the night to prepare for the photoperiod. It seems, if this is true, thateven harvesting in the morning is not a very good idea... and we should in fact, rather harvest at the end of the day.


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## Honest Bruce (Nov 24, 2007)

Can i continually clone a plant? I mean can i take cuttings of a plant in veg cycle and then put those cuttings into an airo cloner in veg cycle while i flower the original plant. And then weeks later before im ready to put these clones into flower cycle clone them again and put the new clones into veg while i flower the others. Will this work or will the clones degenerate in quality?


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## ozone (Nov 24, 2007)

There is a thing called 'genetic drift' which means the clones start to lose some of their genetic code if you don't stick to a constant mother. 

I have done as you said without any major loss of genetic characteristics. But I did lose a strain by not paying attention to which plant I was cloning


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 25, 2007)

They say that the 3rd generation clones are the best. I have to agree with this, although why they are I don't know.


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## Wavels (Nov 29, 2007)

These plants are clones that were put under 12/12 as soon as I noticed roots after cloning. I just transplanted them to larger containers and grew them out.


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## ccodiane (Nov 29, 2007)

WOW Wavels, what strains are those?


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## Wavels (Nov 30, 2007)

ccodiane said:


> WOW Wavels, what strains are those?


Howdy, ccodiane
Those are all from seeds I received free with orders of other seeds from Seeds Direct a few years back.
They were called "Who's Your Daddy", because, if I recall correctly, they are from a PPP mom and five different male plants which supplied the pollen...
I cannot remember all five of the dads but I think some were Chocolate Chunk, Stella Blue, Warlock....I can't remember the others....... 

The plants pictured were cloned from two (totally different phenos) of my favorite plants.
After rooting they were transplanted to the larger containers, flowered and grown out.


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 30, 2007)

Wavels said:


> They were called "Who's Your Daddy", because, if I recall correctly, they are from a PPP mom and five different male plants which supplied the pollen...


Hey wavels, I don't suppose you can remember the fem/male ratio from the 'who's your daddy' strain can you?


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## Wavels (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi skunky...You bring up a very good point that I neglected to make....
I grew out three packs (30 seeds) of these WYD and got better m/f ration than usual....
Most were girls at a far better ratio than I typically expect....generally I anticipate about 50/50....for some reason I think these seeds were closer to 70% female.
I have used the genetics from these WYD in some of my best crosses.
WYDxAK47 and WYDxNorthern LightsxHaze are, IMHO, great!


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 1, 2007)

That's excellent news... and sits in nicely with how I believe environment to play a part in male/fem ratios. Not definitive proof, but it's still good news.


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## AnxiousNewbie (Dec 2, 2007)

What size pot should you put the clone in once it has rooted if your going straight to 12/12? 

And how would this effect your feeding chart? Im assuming that you would skip the vegging cycle and go straight to your blooming chart, is that correct? 

At what PPM would you want to start out at? And peak at?

Sorry if the ?'s are kinda dumb, but I havent read to much on this style and Im really curious on what it takes to make it work. Thanks.

Anxious Newbie


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 3, 2007)

I found that some clones take and others don't. I've done this in soil, coco and DWC... every time the same thing. Some clones take and some don't. Maybe it was my attitude towards them, I don't know.

To answer your questions... personally I like to go straight to flower schedule, and I'd keep the ec/ppm's the same as I would growing any other way... which depends on strain. I usually start flowering nutes at around 1.0-1.2 ec. Peak at 1.8-2.0 ec (i haven't got my truncheon on me and I don't know conversions off by heart, although 2.0ec is 1400ppm).

Not sure on the size of the container you'd want to use. The size I used was 6litres per plant.


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## Hiesman (Dec 10, 2007)

Wavels

about how long did u flower those plants and how much did u yield after curing?


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## Wavels (Dec 14, 2007)

Hiesman,
I flowered those little plants for about 60 to 70 days.
They were grown mostly outdoors.
Since these were for personal consumption, I did not weigh any of them, I simply smoked them all up.

I do remember that the fat WYD #2 clones filled two one quart mason jars with dried buds each...



here is a #2 outside under ol' sol


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## closet.cult (Dec 18, 2007)

Wavels said:


> These plants are clones that were put under 12/12 as soon as I noticed roots after cloning. I just transplanted them to larger containers and grew them out.


wow, these look great, dude. congrats. I will be moving to a clone straight to flower grow op as soon as i choose my mother.


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