# Mega Crop vs Dyna-Gro comparison grow



## homebrewer (Sep 10, 2019)

This showdown is going to be in the same manner as my (https://www.rollitup.org/t/dyna-gro-vs-advanced-nutrients-connoisseur-ak47-grow.429438/#post5684072) journal in that it won’t be a simultaneous grow-off, but rather a direct comparison of the plants foods offered by Megacrop (MC) and DynaGro (DG). I’ll be comparing things like ease of use, versatility, cost, pH stability, plant performance, plant health, and of course final yield. 

The strain we’ll be working with is called Casey Jones, it’s a strain I’ve grown for many years and a strain that I'm very familiar with. Using DynaGro, my average yields are around 19 ounces with this strain so that’ll be the benchmark for Megacrop. I’ve seen yields as high as 28 and as low as 16 but I think a performance of 19-20oz from Megacrop would be very respectable. In regards to the final product, I’ll also be looking for differences or similarities in potency, aroma and flavor, all of which will be 'tested' for in a blind comparison with my testers. In all honesty though, the fertilizers that I’ve used in the past have had minimal effect on potency (if any) but have had a measurable impact on aroma and flavor. 

In terms of the grow itself, I have a vested interested in doing as well as I possibly can, regardless of which plant food I'm using. I personally paid for these MegaCrop bags and I am receiving nothing in return for my efforts here. If this thread turns to shit like most threads do on this site then I'll just finish the journal at a private forum with a hefty cost to see the results. So if you don't like how I'm calling it I'd suggest you keep your ignorant mouths shut . 

*My setup is a DIY Ebb & Flow system with 6 inch rockwool cubes and a 600 watt HPS hortilux. I flood two to three times per day for 15 minutes with weekly res changes and a pH in the high 5's. These plants were vegged with DynaGro Foliage Pro and were also topped a few times.*


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## Herb & Suds (Sep 10, 2019)

As former DynaGro user
The Mega Crop crushes on ease of use
I only use the Bud Explosion with the Candy and Epsom salts
Good luck


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## pthobson (Sep 10, 2019)

Are you testing with clones from your previous grow using Dynagro? If not the results will not as accurate as you’re looking for but I see you said average so should be fine.


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## homebrewer (Sep 10, 2019)

This is actually day 4 for my six Casey Jones cuts in the Mega Crop tray below... 




These are the six Casey Jones cuts in DynaGro at day 1. As you can see the MC tray has a bit of an advantage in terms of size which I'm completely fine with.


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## homebrewer (Sep 10, 2019)

*  EASE OF USE*

The first thing that I want to talk about is ‘ease of use’. Megacrop is a dry food that seems to be made up of ‘balls and sand’ (not literally). Upon opening the bag there is a brown dust that always plumes out of the bag which is one thing that I hate about dry foods; they’re messy to work with. Megacrop is no exception. MC is substantially dustier to work with than say magnesium sulfate or potassium silicate. Luckily I only have to get into these bags once per week. Normally when working with dry salts, I like to make super concentrated liquid solutions and then pull out a few mls at a time. I do not think that is an option with MC. I mean, it’s a no-brainer here, liquids are MUCH easier to deal with than dry salts. I can’t imagine using MC in my container garden as I mix up food in a number of 1 gallon jugs. First I’d have to weigh out MC evenly among all the jugs, then I’d have to carefully pour the ‘balls and sand’ into each jug hoping not to spill any and avoid breathing in the brown dust. I’d imagine the best way to deal with MC in a container garden is to mix it up in say a 5 gallon bucket with a spigot and then fill up my gallon jugs once MC has dissolved. Even then there is the extra step of weighing it out which I don’t love. Mega Crop does however come with a scoop and I’m sure with some proper measuring I could figure out that 1 scoop equals X amount of grams. Personally though I like to be more exact than that. Your tolerance to this inconvenience will likely vary. 

Once MC hits the water it dissolves fairly quickly and completely but does take a minute or two. I do not recommend adding the dry food directly to your reservoirs as it takes much longer to get this stuff to dissolve as compared to first mixing it into a bucket with a few gallons of water. Obviously compared to liquid foods, DynaGro in this case, MC is a dusty, pain in the ass to work with which requires extra steps that I normally wouldn’t do. With DynaGro, or any liquid food for that matter, I can mix up a hydro reservoir in less than a minute and it doesn't require the use of mixing buckets or weighing anything out.


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## swedsteven (Sep 10, 2019)

Oh yeah thank you so much !!!

Just like 10 years ago cant wait bro .

Ur the best im tagging this one will fallow till they end .


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## homebrewer (Sep 10, 2019)

*pH*

Once the first MegaCrop reservoir was all weighed out, mixed up, and completely dissolved, I was pleasantly surprised to see MegaCrop buffer itself to a pH of 5.77. However, after 4 days the pH has climbed to 6.70 which in my experience is to be expected with foods high in nitrate N (this exact amount of pH rise is what I saw with the General Hydroponics 3-part too). They seem to have an ever-rising pH which tends to require an adjustment every couple/few days. You can actually get away with not adjusting the pH at all and despite what some will say, it won’t result in any deficiencies or ‘lock outs’, but you are likely leaving some yield on the table at the end if you're not more exact about your pH. I like a range of say 5.6 - 6.3 in hydro.

In comparison with DynaGro, I've found the pH of DG's foods to be the best that I've ever tried. More-or-less rock-solid pH stability from start to finish. One thing to note is that DG's base nutrients are acidic (like many other brands) and their Protekt product is alkaline, one can strike a 'base/protekt balance' to balance your reservoir's pH from the get-go. So lets say for example you need 100 mls of DG's bloom in your reservoir, maybe with the pH of your tap water that can be balanced with 50 mls of protekt.? It takes a little trial and error in 1-gallon jugs but once that balanced is achieved you can pretty much throw your pH pen in the trash.


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## Keesje (Sep 10, 2019)

Thanks for opening the thread. 
Really curious about the results.
Happy growing!


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## homebrewer (Sep 10, 2019)

*Cost*

I buy DynaGro 1 gallon at a time ($55) and to make this an apples-to-apples comparison I’ll be comparing DG’s 1 gallon to MegaCrop’s 2500g size @ $32.69 (includes shipping). They mix up a similar amount of reservoirs but the gallon of DG will last about 5 weeks longer.

So the first thing that I want to address is the inaccuracy printed on the bags of Megacrop. They claim that 4gs of their product into a gallon of water equals 1.2EC (840 ppm). I measured 4 different times out of 2 different MC bags with a freshly calibrated EC pen. The best I came up with is that 4gs of MegaCrop into a gallon of water equals 0.87EC (610 ppm) which means MegaCrop is over-stating their potency by nearly 38%. I also checked out MC's website some months ago and they had a lot of misleading information about the cost of comparable products on the market. For instance, they calculated their own cost of use at a feeding strength of 1.0 EC but when they calculated the cost of a competitor's product they did so at feeding levels sometimes well over 2.0 EC. That's shady as hell and it's the same thing AN used to pull when attacking their competitors in the market. That bit on their website has since been taken down but used to be here: (https://greenleafnutrients.com/product-comparison/?v=b457452c21b1).

In the defense of MegaCrop, and let me be clear here, *they do lie on their bags*, however, those recommendations are safe for your average idiot grower who doesn't own a ppm/EC pen and blindly follows the manufacturers recommendations. Even feeding at their high end of 6gs/gal, you're still safe. Compare that to many other feeding charts, DynaGro's included, and following them to a T will absolutely scorch your plants. 

So let’s figure out the real cost of MC in my 18 gallon reservoir. I’ll be feeding at around 1.1 EC from start to finish which means MC (90g each week into the reservoir) is going to cost $10.59 for this 9 week flowering period. DynaGro at the same feeding level costs $15.12 (115mls each week into the reservoir). Now this is a difference of $4.53 over a 2 month period. Obviously the difference in price increases with the scale of the grow and at some level the price difference between the two products could outweigh the inconvenience of dealing with dusty dry foods that need pH-adjustments every few days. Yield would be a factor too. If MC is more of a pain to deal with but yields more then obviously that’s something to consider too. Generally speaking in my life, time is the most important commodity so naturally I’d always be leaning towards the liquid foods in any wet vs dry plant food comparison.

Full disclosure here: I do use a couple other additives along with DG. They're not necessary but they are beneficial and I believe these products are already included in the MC dry mix that I'm currently using. So with DG, the money that I'm not spending on pH-up and down could easily be negated by the couple additives that I use.


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## horribleherk (Sep 10, 2019)

[QUOTiveE="homebrewer, post: 15074702, member: 231911"]*pH*
Thanks for doing this as I'm using megacrop so I'm sure I will benefit as will probably a host of others , much appreciated 
Once the first MegaCrop reservoir was all weighed out, mixed up, and completely dissolved, I was pleasantly surprised to see MegaCrop buffer itself to a pH of 5.77. However, after 4 days the pH has climbed to 6.70 which in my experience is to be expected with foods high in nitrate N (this exact amount of pH rise is to be expected with the General Hydroponics 3-part too). They seem to have an ever-rising pH which tends to require an adjustment every couple/few days. You can actually get away with not adjusting the pH at all and despite what some will say, it won’t result in any deficiencies or ‘lock out’, but you are likely leaving some yield on the table at the end if you're not more exact about your pH. I like a range of say 5.6 - 6.3 in hydro.

In comparison with DynaGro, I've found the pH of DG's foods to be the best that I've ever tried. More-or-less rock-solid pH stability from start to finish. One thing to note is that DG's foods are acidic (like many other brands) and their Protekt product is alkaline, one can strike a 'base-protekt balance' to balance your reservoir's pH from the get-go. So lets say for example you need 100 mls of DG's bloom in your reservoir, maybe with the pH of your tap water that can be balanced with 50 mls of protekt.? It takes a little trial and error in 1-gallon jugs but once that balanced is achieved you can pretty much throw your pH pen in the trash.[/QUOTE]


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## Buck5050 (Sep 10, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> *Cost*
> 
> I buy DynaGro 1 gallon at a time ($55) and to make this an apples-to-apples comparison I’ll be comparing DG’s 1 gallon to MegaCrop’s 2500g size @ $32.69 (includes shipping). They mix up a similar amount of reservoirs but the gallon of DG will last about 5 weeks longer.
> 
> ...


Is this what your referring too?

This also states that a EC 1.0 = 500ppm
1.2 x 500 = 600ppm

I do see where your coming from with how this reads. I personally don't look at this and think 4 grams equals 1.2 EC.


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## homebrewer (Sep 11, 2019)

Buck5050 said:


> Is this what your referring too?
> View attachment 4392578


Yes. It clearly states that 4gs/gal=1.2 EC and 5gs/gal=1.5EC and 6gs/gal=1.7EC



> This also states that a EC 1.0 = 500ppm
> 1.2 x 500 = 600ppm
> 
> I do see where your coming from with how this reads. I personally don't look at this and think 4 grams equals 1.2 EC.


My apologies if this wasn't obvious in my post as I thought everyone already knew this. When converting EC to ppm there are different scales. MC is on the 500 scale as it clearly states on their bag. My pen reads on the 700 scale which I thought was obvious when I stated EC _and_ ppm together. EC is universal, ppm is not. 

https://manicbotanix.com/ec-to-ppm-conversion-chart-2/


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## Keesje (Sep 12, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> However, after 4 days the pH has climbed to 6.70 which in my experience is to be expected with foods high in nitrate N


I have no clue about why pH rises with some nutrients.
But this is an interesting assumption.


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## homebrewer (Sep 12, 2019)

Keesje said:


> I have no clue about why pH rises with some nutrients.
> But this is an interesting assumption.


It's not an assumption. Google the effect that different nitrogen sources have on root zone pH.


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## vertnugs (Sep 12, 2019)

Why not make a concentrate solution with the MC?This way it can be used as a liquid nute and get rid of any hassle of weighing things out with a scale.

I completely understand what you are saying about mixing different gl jugs using the MC as i went through the same thing.


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## homebrewer (Sep 12, 2019)

vertnugs said:


> Why not make a concentrate solution with the MC?This way it can be used as a liquid nute and get rid of any hassle of weighing things out with a scale.
> 
> I completely understand what you are saying about mixing different gl jugs using the MC as i went through the same thing.


There is a saturation point if-you-will with water soluble salts and it's very difficult to dissolve certain salts together at high concentrations without them bonding and falling out of solution. That's one reason why so many companies split up their foods into 2 parts. I have a limited amount of MC here, just enough for about 10 weeks of flowering. If someone would like to run a test and let us know how many pounds they can dissolve into a gallon of water before the elements precipitate, I'm all ears.


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## Keesje (Sep 12, 2019)

Rising pH sucks!
I had that years ago. It drove me crazy.
If this is the case with MegaCrop then it is almost already a no go for me.

@homebrewer Will it be always the case with MegaCrop, or would there be a chance that with my tapwater it would be (more) stable.
I am a total nitwit in all this pH and nutrients business.


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## lukio (Sep 12, 2019)

nice, i actually run an old cut of casey jones and megacrop, have done for a couple years  

subbed


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## homebrewer (Sep 12, 2019)

Keesje said:


> Rising pH sucks!
> I had that years ago. It drove me crazy.
> If this is the case with MegaCrop then it is almost already a no go for me.
> 
> ...


Sometimes your tap water will buffer the pH, usually upward, so using RO water instead may minimize those upward swings. In the defense of MC, every food that I've ever run in hydro drifted upward, except for DG. That upward drift is to be expected. I added hydro tables to the garden about a decade ago and pH isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be. If you were getting anal with MC then you'd likely want to adjust the pH 2x per week but I bet you could easily get by with an adjustment 1x per week. Seeing that (based on one reservoir) MC buffered itself to 5.77 on day 1, letting it drift upward is not a bad idea. Once it hits 6.4 or so, adjust it back to 5.6 and let it rise again. By the time you need to change your res I'm sure the pH will still be in an acceptable range.


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## homebrewer (Sep 12, 2019)

lukio said:


> nice, i actually run an old cut of casey jones and megacrop, have done for a couple years
> 
> subbed


Post a pic late in flower if you could. I'd love to see how she looks compared to mine.


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## lukio (Sep 12, 2019)

sure thing, i usually take her 10 weeks. around 0.9ec - shes a fan fave and a wonderful cross


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## vertnugs (Sep 12, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> If someone would like to run a test and let us know how many pounds they can dissolve into a gallon of water before the elements precipitate, I'm all ears.


I would check it out if i wasn't shut down.To bad the old MC thread is gone because if i remember correctly there was info on making a concentrate solution.


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## Gemtree (Sep 12, 2019)

Now this is my kinda thread. I loved the dyna vs connoisseur thread and have grown a killer crop with just a 8oz sample foliage pro bottle and a sample bottle of floralicious plus just to show a friend who spends hundreds that I can lol. Just switched to jacks and got a bit over 20oz under a 600 last round but got some nute burn towards the end so was considering dyna again or possibly mega crop so definitely interested in this competition.

One of my 15 dollar sample grow plants under a 400w lol

first round kens gdp seeds


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## homebrewer (Sep 12, 2019)

Gemtree said:


> Now this is my kinda thread. I loved the dyna vs connoisseur thread and have grown a killer crop with just a 8oz sample foliage pro bottle and a sample bottle of floralicious plus just to show a friend who spends hundreds that I can lol. Just switched to jacks and got a bit over 20oz under a 600 last round but got some nute burn towards the end so was considering dyna again or possibly mega crop so definitely interested in this competition.
> 
> One of my 15 dollar sample grow plants under a 400w lol
> 
> first round kens gdp seedsView attachment 4393681 View attachment 4393682


Those look great, regardless of what they were grown with!

Res change tomorrow and day 8 pictures.


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## TintEastwood (Sep 12, 2019)

vertnugs said:


> I would check it out if i wasn't shut down.To bad the old MC thread is gone because if i remember correctly there was info on making a concentrate solution.


Info at afn....
https://www.autoflower.net/forums/threads/stock-solutions.73698/

https://www.autoflower.net/forums/threads/update-feeding-chart-for-af.64605/page-23


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## Gemtree (Sep 12, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> Those look great, regardless of what they were grown with!
> 
> Res change tomorrow and day 8 pictures.


Thanks I'm just a big proponent of not needing to spend a lot to grow great buds. I try to help people get the best for as little as possible its probably the dutch in me lol. Thanks for the response I really studied the shit outta that dyna competition thread glad you're still on here making comp threads.


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## Keesje (Sep 13, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> Res change tomorrow and day 8 pictures.


I did read that you have a 18 gallon reservoir.
How many days do you keep the same res?
Do you top up in this period?
And if so, how?
Do you totally change your res after a certain time?


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## homebrewer (Sep 13, 2019)

Keesje said:


> I did read that you have a 18 gallon reservoir.
> How many days do you keep the same res?


Weekly res changes.



> Do you top up in this period?


 I top off once after 4 days. 


> And if so, how?


 By adding water and some plant food.


> Do you totally change your res after a certain time?


 Weekly res changes.


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## Keesje (Sep 13, 2019)

I greatly appreciate that you answer all questions.

Let's say your reservoir would be about 60 gallons, would you still change your reservoir also after a week with MegaCrop?


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## homebrewer (Sep 13, 2019)

Keesje said:


> I greatly appreciate that you answer all questions.
> 
> Let's say your reservoir would be about 60 gallons, would you still change your reservoir also after a week with MegaCrop?


The short answer is no. 

I think that the reservoir and the table should match so with that being said, a 60 gallon res flooding a 2' x 3' (roughly) table with just six plants is overkill, IMO. If that were my setup, obviously that would be plenty of water to last a number of weeks but I would be curious about the mineral composition of the reservoir at the end of that time. Would it still be in balance? I know for a fact that it wouldn't. These plants aren't pulling up the elements in even amounts across the board. To some extent, they're picking and choosing what they want, when they want it. Now that isn't _exactly_ how it works but I think you get what I'm saying. I've done tests where I changed the res every 2 weeks (while adding back water and food) vs every week. Yields were down by like 20% if I recall correctly. So a res change isn't just 'fresh' food, it's a rebalancing of the elements too. If I wanted to go 2 weeks between res changes then I'd probably need a 30 gallon res. Does that make sense? I think that's just big enough where I'm not wasting food but also 2 weeks isn't too long between res changes where the res gets so out of balance that I'm hurting yields. This is just a guesstimate. 

So in short, I think a 60 gallon res would be much better suited for a 5' x 5' table with say 9 plants and a 1000s HPS over head.


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## homebrewer (Sep 13, 2019)

*Day 8 today*

As I previously mentioned I’ll be doing weekly res changes. The pH of the res here at the end of week one was 6.22 which isn’t terrible at all. The freshly mixed up food at a feeding level of 1.1 EC landed the pH at 6.44 so for whatever reason I needed to make a pH-adjustment this week to bring the pH down. If I were using DynaGro or any other liquid plant food I’d have figured out the correct protekt-to-base ratio to give me a starting pH of around 5.7. MC already contains silica though. We'll check in next week with a freshly calibrated pH pen. 

Today I mixed up 100 grams of food into about a gallon of water before dumping the solution into the reservoir. MegaCrop is not that easy to work with. This stuff wants to stick to my measuring cups which means my measuring cups need to be rinsed to get the trace amounts of food off. Between measuring and mixing and rinsing, it probably took 7 mins to set this reservoir up. With DG it takes 30 seconds. 

The plants look really good though so no complaints there. Good growth, good branching, i'm pleased so far. 





I'm getting a film in the bottom of my res with MegaCrop. It's not a big deal but it's not something I've encountered with any liquid food I've ever used. It's not a growth of any kind, it's particulate like a fine dust.


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## homebrewer (Sep 13, 2019)

Day 8 With DynaGro below. As you can see the MC plants had a bit of a size advantage going into this comparison but given the footprint of my light that doesn't really affect the yield as much as you'd think.


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## Axion42 (Sep 13, 2019)

When I tried MC in my rdwc I also got that film on the bottom of my buckets, wasnt good for my circ pumps.


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## arcalion (Sep 13, 2019)

I'm getting that too with MC, so I bought a water pump and put it at the bottom of the res. You can get one on Amazon for 30$ for Two of them, keeps the water mixed up so it doesnt have a chance to chunk up etc etc definitely helps


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## homebrewer (Sep 19, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> *Cost*
> 
> I buy DynaGro 1 gallon at a time ($55) and to make this an apples-to-apples comparison I’ll be comparing DG’s 1 gallon to MegaCrop’s 2500g size @ $32.69 (includes shipping). They mix up a similar amount of reservoirs but the gallon of DG will last about 5 weeks longer.
> 
> ...


So it looks like Mega Crop did not take down the cost comparison that I saw on their site. It can be found here (https://greenleafnutrients.com/product/mega-crop/?v=7516fd43adaa#!/NPK). 

So what rubs me the wrong way is that they are comparing their own cost of use at 4.1g servings which equals 633 ppm (0.9EC) to 10ml/gal servings with DynaGro which equals 1150ppm (1.64 EC). That's not an apple-to-apples comparison and when calculating cost at these very different feeding levels it becomes VERY misleading.

Let's looks at the Aqua Flakes Comparison too. I've used Aqua Flakes in the past and I actually really liked it. It's a 2-part food and you use equal parts from start to finish. Super easy! So MC is claiming that this is THE most expensive plant food option on their list. They're saying that 40L of Aqua Flakes only makes 587 gallons. That means that users are feeding their plants with a total of 68.1 mls/gal! If I recall the potency of Aqua Flakes correctly, that's a feeding level of 5451ppm (7.78 EC). I'm thinking someone forgot to carry a 1 or something? If shooting for 1.1 EC, Aqua Flakes users only need about 4.5mls/gal of each part. At that feeding rate, 40L of food makes 4444 gallons of food.

So as you can see MC is not doing apples-to-apples comparisons here which I think is shady and misleading. So far it looks like MC is a good product and they shouldn't be resorting to these lies to sell their plant foods.


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## Coloradoclear (Sep 19, 2019)

Definitely keep this going! I like the positive comparisons. Went from Advanced to Megacrop and haven't looked back!


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## Keesje (Sep 20, 2019)

It would be nice if MegaCrop or Greenleaf would react here. But I guess they are not active here anymore.


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## homebrewer (Sep 20, 2019)

Keesje said:


> It would be nice if MegaCrop or Greenleaf would react here. But I guess they are not active here anymore.


So aside from the horrid math with the Aqua Flakes cost comparison, MC *may* be getting some of their numbers from the manufacturer's recommended dose? MC is one of the least expensive foods on the market but their worst offense is over-stating how much cheaper they are. For the average, experienced grower reading this, MC could potentially save you a few bucks per month per light if you were _only_ using their single bag of 9-6-17 dry food which is all that I'm using in this test. 

This is a nice transition into today's update as I'd like to talk a little bit about their NPK content as it pertains to hydroponic use.


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## homebrewer (Sep 20, 2019)

*Day 15 today...*

So things are moving along as expected. In terms of the overall health of the plants, they're perfect. The structure however is my only critique and that leads me into what I wanted to talk about today: NPK content of Mega Crop. Mega Crop supplies a NPK of 9-6-17 and that is accompanied by plenty of calcium, magnesium, and every other element along with some extras. But the NPK is what I don't love. If you don't mind the hassle of a dry food then I think a 9-6-17 would be fantastic in peat/coco/dirt. As for hydro (in my experience), this NPK grows excessively leafy and branchy plants at the expense of yield. You're much better off in hydro using a food with a 1-3-2 or a 1-3-3 or a 1-3-4 NPK ratio. Nitrogen seems to be taken up in 'excess' in hydro if more is supplied than needed. All you *need* is enough to support green, healthy leaves. Anything more than that and you start getting the excessive branching that can be seen below. I've run foods like DynaGro's Grow (7-9-5) and Foliage Pro (9-3-6) from start to finish in hydro with less than stellar results. Sure, the plants were healthy and the flowers were resinous and fragrant but the leafy, branchy mess that high N foods produce makes them less than ideal for hydro. Those foods are absolutely killer in peat/coco/dirt and I would suspect that MC would perform just as well, they're just not your best choices for hydro growing.

So to get the best results here with MC in hydro, I think adding a PK booster is essential. I'm not going to in this test but if I did, I'd probably run about 600ppm of MegaCrop and add about 150ppm of a PK booster. GH's Liquid kool bloom, DG's Magpro, or a MKP dry food, would all do the trick. The thing about *needing* a PK booster is that the addition of one starts to cut into the cost saving of MC. DyanGro's bloom formula is a 3-12-6 which clearly doesn't need a PK boost. Adding more K to the DG formula would be beneficial but it's not essential. 

As far as plant maintenance goes, I've been trimming, topping, and pruning, since the 1st day of flower and I'll have to continue to do so up until day 25 or so. If I don't I'll end up with hundreds of bud sites that will develop into nothing more than leafy, airy garbage. 

Mega Crop plants looking healthy as can be:




A branchy mess that needs to be properly managed. Believe it or not I've been pruning and topping a couple times per week...


This is the result of a hydro formula that supplies more N than is needed. I've seen this same growth with DG's grow and foliage pro formulas. 




DynaGro Plants after 14 days. Clearly less branchy and much easier to manage overall...


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## Keesje (Sep 20, 2019)

I think that every line that says that you can do both veg and bloom with the same product, is not lying, but they are not telling the truth either.
Greennutrients also had a PK Booster.
https://greenleafnutrients.com/product/bud-explosion/?v=796834e7a283

I really enjoy your posts and your explanations.


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## homebrewer (Sep 20, 2019)

Keesje said:


> *I think that every line that says that you can do both veg and bloom with the same product, is not lying, but they are not telling the truth either.*
> Greennutrients also had a PK Booster.
> https://greenleafnutrients.com/product/bud-explosion/?v=796834e7a283
> 
> I really enjoy your posts and your explanations.


I definitely agree when it comes to hydro. In peat/coco/dirt, a veg formula from start-to-finish absolutely crushes it. The mineral uptake seems to be different in containers, maybe because hydroponics makes said minerals more accessible? Maybe it's because ebb-n-flow hydro plants get flooded (and subsequently fed) a few times per day?


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## vertnugs (Sep 20, 2019)

Did you see they tweeked things again!?

New formula was put out Aug 15th.


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## homebrewer (Sep 20, 2019)

vertnugs said:


> Did you see they tweeked things again!?
> 
> New formula was put out Aug 15th.


How does the new formula differ from the one I'm using? Got a link?


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## vertnugs (Sep 20, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> How does the new formula differ from the one I'm using? Got a link?


I saw it on the greenleaf megacrop thread in the nute section.


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## Mikenike (Sep 20, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> How does the new formula differ from the one I'm using? Got a link?


27% more cal
8% more mag
Smaller chunks, more even 
And claims to be less dusty. I have a bag of the new stuff already and yes it is less dusty when you open the bag. I normally store in an airtight Tupperware tho so not an issue for me. I like to grind all my chunks to get an even weigh but will not feel the need to do so with the new. FWIW


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## homebrewer (Sep 20, 2019)

Mikenike said:


> 27% more cal
> 8% more mag
> Smaller chunks, more even
> And claims to be less dusty. I have a bag of the new stuff already and yes it is less dusty when you open the bag. I normally store in an airtight Tupperware tho so not an issue for me. I like to grind all my chunks to get an even weigh but will not feel the need to do so with the new. FWIW


I started putting mine in a tupperware container too. It's still dusty but it's much better than messing with a bag.


----------



## simpleleaf (Sep 20, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> I started putting mine in a tupperware container too. It's still dusty but it's much better than messing with a bag.


I save old vitamin pill bottles (particularly larger ones). Always gotta make a label! The shape is ideal for pouring powders and measuring with a scale.


----------



## lukio (Sep 20, 2019)

interesting to see them adding more Cal and Mg...

second time they've added more Mg? i questioned their Mg ppm' on their first formula in their original thread before it disappeared, and they said they upped it in the second formula, which im using now...

Seems most dry salt companies sell the majority of the Cal and Mg separately, to my understanding the Cal is separate to stop lockout...is that right? recently watched the canna rep explaining this on the GrowTube.

im a bit of a newb when it comes to the science, need to do more reading.

also, like @Keesje i enjoy ya posts, homebrewer.

ive found i get tip burn at 1ec...any thoughts?


----------



## homebrewer (Sep 20, 2019)

lukio said:


> interesting to see them adding more Cal and Mg...
> 
> second time they've added more Mg? i questioned their Mg ppm' on their first formula in their original thread before it disappeared, and they said they upped it in the second formula, which im using now...
> 
> ...


In hydro 1.0 EC is pretty safe. The N is mostly nitrate so I'm personally not worried about tip burn in my setup. If I were in containers I'd be feeding at about half that, maybe 0.6 EC with my 600w lamps? 

I'm not sure why they're adding more calcium and magnesium as it looks like my bag has plenty at 5.6% and 2.3% respectively. DynaGro bloom has like 2% cal and 0.5% mag which is plenty, IMO. I've even run tests where I added an extra 50ppm of cal/mag and it made no difference whatsoever. Out of the 6 essential macro and secondary macro elements, magnesium is next to last. Calcium is like 3rd on the list but in my experience it's an element that just needs to meet the requirements of the plant. Feeding more than is required has no additional benefit.


----------



## Mikenike (Sep 21, 2019)

horribleherk said:


> [QUOTiveE="homebrewer, post: 15074702, member: 231911"]*pH*
> Thanks for doing this as I'm using megacrop so I'm sure I will benefit as will probably a host of others , much appreciated
> Once the first MegaCrop reservoir was all weighed out, mixed up, and completely dissolved, I was pleasantly surprised to see MegaCrop buffer itself to a pH of 5.77. However, after 4 days the pH has climbed to 6.70 which in my experience is to be expected with foods high in nitrate N (this exact amount of pH rise is to be expected with the General Hydroponics 3-part too). They seem to have an ever-rising pH which tends to require an adjustment every couple/few days. You can actually get away with not adjusting the pH at all and despite what some will say, it won’t result in any deficiencies or ‘lock out’, but you are likely leaving some yield on the table at the end if you're not more exact about your pH. I like a range of say 5.6 - 6.3 in hydro.
> 
> In comparison with DynaGro, I've found the pH of DG's foods to be the best that I've ever tried. More-or-less rock-solid pH stability from start to finish. One thing to note is that DG's foods are acidic (like many other brands) and their Protekt product is alkaline, one can strike a 'base-protekt balance' to balance your reservoir's pH from the get-go. So lets say for example you need 100 mls of DG's bloom in your reservoir, maybe with the pH of your tap water that can be balanced with 50 mls of protekt.? It takes a little trial and error in 1-gallon jugs but once that balanced is achieved you can pretty much throw your pH pen in the trash.


[/QUOTE]
Hey Greenleaf has been active on AFN recently with their new promo, I could post your questions regarding other nute ratio comparisons there if you’d like? I’m curious myself why’d they’d resort to such a shady tactic. I’m sure you’d word your question better than I could lol


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## homebrewer (Sep 21, 2019)

Mikenike said:


> Hey Greenleaf has been active on AFN recently with their new promo, I could post your questions regarding other nute ratio comparisons there if you’d like? I’m curious myself why’d they’d resort to such a shady tactic. I’m sure you’d word your question better than I could lol


I *think* they're going off of feeding charts? I just crunched the numbers for Maxicrop. They claim that 16 lbs (7257.48g) makes 1614 gallons which equals 4.5g/gal. According to maxicrop's feeding chart (https://gh.growgh.com/docs/Feedcharts/GH_Maxi-REC_03216am.pdf), 1.5tsp/gal is recommended throughout flowering. Does anyone use maxicrop to see if 1.5tsp equals 4.5g?


----------



## vertnugs (Sep 21, 2019)

I also noticed on the Greenleaf site that they have an npk listed of 10-7-18.Wonder if this is also a change with the new formula.If you hit shop and go to megacrop it still has the 9-6-17 listed.


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## Mikenike (Sep 23, 2019)

Greenleaf hasn’t responded yet but a mod on afn posted this 

“I looked into the figures a bit out of curiosity, correct me if I'm wrong:

9.9kg MC equates to 9400l (your figure based on 4g/gal) @ $94.93 or *$0.01 per litre / $0.038 per gallon *

20l Aqua Flakes A+B equates to 10000l (@2ml/l) @ $219.95, although I can get for $152 including shipping in UK, or *$0.021 per litre / $0.084 per gallon.*

The figure 2ml/l for Aqua Flakes is a high average of recommended use over a grow. Doing this for Megacrop gives me 7524l using an average of 5g/gal.“


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## homebrewer (Sep 23, 2019)

Mikenike said:


> 9.9kg MC equates to 9400l (your figure based on 4g/gal) @ $94.93 or *$0.01 per litre / $0.038 per gallon
> 
> 20l Aqua Flakes A+B equates to 10000l* (@2ml/l) @ $219.95, although I can get for $152 including shipping in UK, or *$0.021 per litre / $0.084 per gallon.*
> 
> The figure 2ml/l for Aqua Flakes is a high average of recommended use over a grow. Doing this for Megacrop gives me 7524l using an average of 5g/gal.“


It's not just 20L, it's 20L of A+B so 40L total. They're saying on their site that 40L only makes 587 gallons which is a dose of 68.1 ml/gal. 

And then $219.95/587gal = 37 cents


----------



## Mikenike (Sep 23, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> It's not just 20L, it's 20L of A+B so 40L total. They're saying on their site that 40L only makes 587 gallons which is a dose of 68.1 ml/gal.
> 
> And then $219.95/587gal = 37 cents


I’m unfamiliar with aqua flakes but don’t you use A and B together at 2ml each? If so then I guess you could still count it as 20l since you have to use both. Or count it as 40l but double the dose to 4ml. Again, I’m unfamiliar with it but am currently using megacrop and don’t like those shady tactics so just trying to relay from what Greenleaf has to say. If they even respond.


----------



## homebrewer (Sep 23, 2019)

Mikenike said:


> I’m unfamiliar with aqua flakes but don’t you use A and B together at 2ml each? If so then I guess you could still count it as 20l since you have to use both. Or count it as 40l but double the dose to 4ml. Again, I’m unfamiliar with it but am currently using megacrop and don’t like those shady tactics so just trying to relay from what Greenleaf has to say. If they even respond.


I guess I'm just confused by the '2mls/L' dosage. Aqua Flakes is their recirculating hydro food. Here is their feeding chart (https://www.house-garden.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/10-6-17_8-week-feeding-chart.jpg).


----------



## Dyna-Gro'n (Sep 23, 2019)

*Awesome!!!*


----------



## lukio (Sep 24, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> I'm not sure why they're adding more calcium and magnesium as it looks like my bag has plenty at 5.6% and 2.3%


im in coco and under led and have to bump my Mg by 70ppm (0.5scale) with epsom salts, if i dont they show Mg def every time, specially the GG4 crosses.

i really want to try the rockwool cubes but getting rid of hundreds of them in the UK is a bit suspect IMO, lol. 



homebrewer said:


> In hydro 1.0 EC is pretty safe. The N is mostly nitrate


well, ive had quite a lot of tip burn...its weird, man! didnt get it with other nutes.


----------



## topshelf_sac (Sep 25, 2019)

I use Dynagro in containers with Royal Gold Tupur. 

In veg is use protekt, foliage pro and mag pro. For the first half of flower i use protekt, foliage pro, bloom and mag pro and week 5 and 6 i use protekt, bloom and mag pro. Then i just use bloom and magpro at half strength and "flush" the last week (my strains are all 9 or 10 week). 

The ph in my tap water comes oit between 5.77 to 5.9 depending on concentration. The quality and yield is outstanding. I appreciate this thread but i see no reason to switch from dynagro.


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## Keesje (Sep 25, 2019)

@Dyna-Gro'n 
I guess Dyna-gro is only available in the USA and Canada?


----------



## homebrewer (Sep 25, 2019)

topshelf_sac said:


> I use Dynagro in containers with Royal Gold Tupur.
> 
> In veg is use protekt, foliage pro and mag pro. For the first half of flower i use protekt, foliage pro, bloom and mag pro and week 5 and 6 i use protekt, bloom and mag pro. Then i just use bloom and magpro at half strength and "flush" the last week (my strains are all 9 or 10 week).
> 
> The ph in my tap water comes oit between 5.77 to 5.9 depending on concentration. The quality and yield is outstanding. I appreciate this thread but i see no reason to switch from dynagro.


For container gardening I wouldn't switch from a liquid food to a dry food either.


----------



## jewsh808 (Sep 27, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> Those look great, regardless of what they were grown with!
> 
> Res change tomorrow and day 8 pictures.


I'm curious what additives you run or your favorite additives with Dyna Gro?


----------



## homebrewer (Sep 27, 2019)

jewsh808 said:


> I'm curious what additives you run or your favorite additives with Dyna Gro?


I've always liked floralicious plus. I also like a little potassium sulfate during flower for some sturdier plants.


----------



## vertnugs (Sep 27, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> I've always liked floralicious plus. I also like a little potassium sulfate during flower for some sturdier plants.



I've been an advocate of floralicious plus for a while.Have always had a noticeable difference in finished product with it.A more pronounced smell and flavor.

Some of the best smoke ever for me was done with just Floranova bloom with the floralicious plus.Ran just that for quite a while.

Have you used or do you know of any other products like the floralicious plus that work as well?


----------



## homebrewer (Sep 27, 2019)

vertnugs said:


> I've been an advocate of floralicious plus for a while.Have always had a noticeable difference in finished product with it.A more pronounced smell and flavor.
> 
> Some of the best smoke ever for me was done with just Floranova bloom with the floralicious plus.Ran just that for quite a while.
> 
> Have you used or do you know of any other products like the floralicious plus that work as well?


I used to use Liquid karma but it was a bit messy for hydro and I never saw much benefit in containers. FLP has worked well in both.

I've always wanted to try H&G's Algen Extract. Maybe one of these days. 

I'd also be interested in similar humic/fulvic/sea kelp type products.


----------



## homebrewer (Sep 27, 2019)

*Day 22 today...*

Things are moving right along. I'd describe the health of the plants as perfect. I'm feeding around 1.1 EC and growth has been as expected, though I've had to thin the branches more than I usually have to because of the higher dose of N in this formula. The pH looks like it wants to 'start' at around 6.4 which means an initial adjustment is required for fresh reservoirs. After a few days the pH continues to rise from the adjusted 5.6 to 6.5 so I'm still getting away with about one pH adjustment per week which is nice. I basically never have to touch the pH of a DynaGro reservoir but that's more of a luxury than something to expect out of other plant foods. 

So I'm happy with things so far.  I may need to add another layer of support as these plants are getting pretty tall. This strain fills in pretty well so there should be some nice pictures coming in the next month. Stay tuned! 





*DynaGro day 22...*

Not nearly as leafy and branchy as the MC plants above which makes maintenance requirements a bit lower as compared to MC. The tray below went on to yield 28 ounces so it should be interesting to see how the bigger MC plants do.


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## swedsteven (Sep 27, 2019)

Mc plant look less stretchy its crayzy how they look different i was not expecting that .


You did not use any additive with mc ?

-next round im trying just mc and epsom to see the difference then adding mkp boost ,karma ,sweet and calmag.


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## homebrewer (Sep 27, 2019)

swedsteven said:


> Mc plant look less stretchy its crayzy how they look different i was not expecting that .
> 
> *You did not use any additive with mc ?*
> 
> -next round im trying just mc and epsom to see the difference then adding mkp boost ,karma ,sweet and calmag.


Nope, just the dry powder food.


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## iShatterBladderz (Sep 28, 2019)

@homebrewer I am getting ready to start my first grow, 4 plants of dedoverde haze from Humboldt seed organization, in 3 gal smart pots with 70 coco/30 perlite, under a 480w Quantum Board light w/lm301H & CREE 660nm diodes. I will be feeding using drain to waste method. 

I have been back and forth on whether I should use Dynagro or Biobizz. My main thing here is I want whichever Nute is going to help me get as close to top shelf quality as possible and be easy to correct any mistakes. My main two questions for you, and I would PM this to you but for whatever reason I cant figure out how to, maybe because i created this profile just to message you, but would you recommend DG over Biobizz? If I do go Biobizz, based on how I’m growing, what percentage of the recommended dosage should i feed? Ive heard to feed 75 percent potency and to overlap pro-foliage and bloom the first 3-4 weeks of flower.


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## homebrewer (Sep 29, 2019)

iShatterBladderz said:


> @homebrewer I am getting ready to start my first grow, 4 plants of dedoverde haze from Humboldt seed organization, in 3 gal smart pots with 70 coco/30 perlite, under a 480w Quantum Board light w/lm301H & CREE 660nm diodes. I will be feeding using drain to waste method.
> 
> I have been back and forth on whether I should use Dynagro or Biobizz. My main thing here is I want whichever Nute is going to help me get as close to top shelf quality as possible and be easy to correct any mistakes. My main two questions for you, and I would PM this to you but for whatever reason I cant figure out how to, maybe because i created this profile just to message you, but would you recommend DG over Biobizz? If I do go Biobizz, based on how I’m growing, what percentage of the recommended dosage should i feed? Ive heard to feed 75 percent potency and to overlap pro-foliage and bloom the first 3-4 weeks of flower.


I don't think the nutrients are going to be your limiting factor when it comes to producing quality. If you want a stupid simple way to grow, pick up some happy frog potting soil and go with DG's foliage pro at like 1/2 tsp/gal from start to finish. That being said, my vote goes to DG regardless of how you're growing. If you go with Biobizz, you're going to have to get a ppm/EC meter to determine how potent their bottles are. I can't blindly tell you to halve their recommended dose even though that's generally good advice.


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## iShatterBladderz (Sep 29, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> I don't think the nutrients are going to be your limiting factor when it comes to producing quality. If you want a stupid simple way to grow, pick up some happy frog potting soil and go with DG's foliage pro at like 1/2 tsp/gal from start to finish. That being said, my vote goes to DG regardless of how you're growing. If you go with Biobizz, you're going to have to get a ppm/EC meter to determine how potent their bottles are. I can't blindly tell you to halve their recommended dose even though that's generally good advice.



I’m sorry, that was a typo on my part. What I meant to ask what if I went with DG, what are the recommended dosages I should follow? I seen you post earlier that the dosages on the schedule were a bit higher than you would recommend. I was going to just run the schedule how they recommend it, But if it’s too strong I’ll dilute it down a bit. Thanks!


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## homebrewer (Sep 29, 2019)

iShatterBladderz said:


> I’m sorry, that was a typo on my part. What I meant to ask what if I went with DG, what are the recommended dosages I should follow? I seen you post earlier that the dosages on the schedule were a bit higher than you would recommend. I was going to just run the schedule how they recommend it, But if it’s too strong I’ll dilute it down a bit. Thanks!


I think the directions on the foliage pro bottle say 1/2 tsp/gal. I think that's good for flowering, maybe halve that for veg? And just run that all the way through.


----------



## ISK (Sep 30, 2019)

Keesje said:


> @Dyna-Gro'n
> I guess Dyna-gro is only available in the USA and Canada?


I live in Canada and have not seen Dyna-gro available in any of our local grow-op stores but is available online


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## dakilla187 (Sep 30, 2019)

I love megacrop, been using it for 2 years now...One thing is this fert catches any humidity in the air if not tightly sealed and liquifies....Then I end up using a concentrataed liquid if I get lazy and forget my jug is left open.....


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## f series (Sep 30, 2019)

Does megacrop store well in Mason jars?
If not, how do you prefer
@homebrewer
@dakilla187


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## homebrewer (Oct 1, 2019)

f series said:


> Does megacrop store well in Mason jars?
> If not, how do you prefer
> @homebrewer
> @dakilla187


Mine is storing very well in a Tupperware container.


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## GrowLightGuy (Oct 8, 2019)

I was a big fan of MC, until they came out with V2 that contains their chunky pieces of cal-mag because people were complaining about cal-mag deficiencies in the original formula. I found V2 to have super low or super high ppm readings because of the inconsistency of random chunks of cal-mag mixed in with the fine powder. Before i'd just add a little cal-mag with dissolved MC and my plants couldn't have been happier. V2 caused me nothing but cal-mag deficiencies because of the inconsistency. Go figure.


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## homebrewer (Oct 9, 2019)

GrowLightGuy said:


> I was a big fan of MC, until they came out with V2 that contains their chunky pieces of cal-mag because people were complaining about cal-mag deficiencies in the original formula. I found V2 to have super low or super high ppm readings because of the inconsistency of random chunks of cal-mag mixed in with the fine powder. Before i'd just add a little cal-mag with dissolved MC and my plants couldn't have been happier. V2 caused me nothing but cal-mag deficiencies because of the inconsistency. Go figure.


Interesting. Growers across the board complain about 'cal/mag' issues with many different plant foods which to me is laughable. One cannot have both a calcium and magnesium issue simultaneously (unless both elements are missing from the formula) because these elements have an antagonistic relationship. If both elements are present then it is either one element or the other that is the 'issue'. 

It's no secret that somewhere in the 1:3 to 1:4 range of magnesium-to-calcium is ideal and many companies not only supply both elements but also do so in the correct ratio, yet idiot growers continue to think that supplementing calmag is 'needed'. 

IMO, megacrop has always been a complete food that could be used with success as a standalone food. My issue with them is the high amount of N in their formula when used in hydro. Update coming..

/rant


----------



## Nizza (Oct 9, 2019)

hey homebrewer the journal is looking good as always keep it up man!

I miss DG. Doing bio-bizz for now, the whole lineup even all the extras.. No measuring stuff just a little of this and that

one thing I found with dyna gro nutes is they can crystal up.. Didn't bother me at all cause the nutes are great.
once and a while put I light under the bottle and look into the bottle if its a clear solution, or pour the whole thing into a clear bottle. If shaking it vigorously doesn't de-crystal the solution what I did was take the amount of solution and mix it 1:1 with warm water to dissolve the crystals. Now I kept some old bottles if it doesnt fit back into one, and write 1/2 strength on it.
It bothered me to see crystals cause I didnt know which nutrients would do that, and in a liquid form it might possibly adding too much or too little of certain nutes (this is pure bro science) lol, but I thought it helped.

The particular one I had to do this with was the Pro-Tekt. Something about the silica over time in the bottle made it condense into a crystal. This is the same stuff that you have to add first or dilute before adding to your nutrient solution


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## homebrewer (Oct 9, 2019)

Day 33 today...

There isn't much to report here. The plants are cruising along as expect and megacrop has been pretty consistent in regards to it's use (dissolving, mixing, pH-ing, plant performance, etc.). My complaint here is that these plants are a darker shade of green than I'm used to and I have a feeling that the excessive branching is going to negatively affect yield. I look at it this way: 100 bud sites can yield me a pound or 300 bud sites can yield the exact same amount in the form of smaller, airier buds. Now I'm not one that really cares about bud density as I love me some airy, foxtailing sativa flowers, but bud structure is what I'm really talking about here. Maybe it's too early to cast any predictions but even as recently as day 29 I was thinning out these plants as I could just tell that some of the inner bud sites would develop into larfy garbage. So we'll see how this plays out. I've done the best job that I can here.



Resin shot here:



DynaGro Resin shot below....



DynaGro tray (Possibly day 35) below. It's hard to compare bud size because of the different lighting situations but that doesn't really matter at the moment. What I do notice is that there aren't nearly as many bud sites on the DG plants, partly due to size, but mostly due to the lower N content of DG bloom which results in more desirable growth and branching. The fix with MC would be to replace some of your base EC with a PK booster (so maybe 80% base, 20% booster).


----------



## GrowLightGuy (Oct 9, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> Interesting. Growers across the board complain about 'cal/mag' issues with many different plant foods which to me is laughable. One cannot have both a calcium and magnesium issue simultaneously (unless both elements are missing from the formula) because these elements have an antagonistic relationship. If both elements are present then it is either one element or the other that is the 'issue'.
> 
> It's no secret that somewhere in the 1:3 to 1:4 range of magnesium-to-calcium is ideal and many companies not only supply both elements but also do so in the correct ratio, yet idiot growers continue to think that supplementing calmag is 'needed'.
> 
> ...


It is complete, it's the inconsistency of the powder/chunky cal-mag that makes it hit or miss for me. I agree that it's one or the other, but since the two often come combined most refer to both.


----------



## GrowLightGuy (Oct 9, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> Day 33 today...
> 
> There isn't much to report here. The plants are cruising along as expect and megacrop has been pretty consistent in regards to it's use (dissolving, mixing, pH-ing, plant performance, etc.). My complaint here is that these plants are a darker shade of green than I'm used to and I have a feeling that the excessive branching is going to negatively affect yield. I look at it this way: 100 bud sites can yield me a pound or 300 bud sites can yield the exact same amount in the form of smaller, airier buds. Now I'm not one that really cares about bud density as I love me some airy, foxtailing sativa flowers, but bud structure is what I'm really talking about here. Maybe it's too early to cast any predictions but even as recently as day 29 I was thinning out these plants as I could just tell that some of the inner bud sites would develop into larfy garbage. So we'll see how this plays out. I've done the best job that I can here.
> 
> ...


My fist MC grow was 2 white queen and 1 sugar black rose. Total combined harvest weight, 14.3 oz.


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 9, 2019)

GrowLightGuy said:


> It is complete, it's the inconsistency of the powder/chunky cal-mag that makes it hit or miss for me. I agree that it's one or the other, but since the two often come combined most refer to both.


My 'rant' wasn't directed at you so my apologies if it came off that way. MC is definitely made up of 'balls and sand' so I guess if not evenly scooped one could get more of one than the other. I have not had an issue yet but I'm also using like 115gs at a time for the reservoir so the odds of a hydro grower not scooping evenly is low, IMO. I'm just trying to give MC a little credit here. I'm trying to be critical but fair. I read somewhere of users blending up the 'balls and sand' into a powder form which is not a bad idea. Unnecessary, IMO, but a potential solution too.


----------



## GrowLightGuy (Oct 9, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> My 'rant' wasn't directed at you so my apologies if it came off that way. MC is definitely made up of 'balls and sand' so I guess if not evenly scooped one could get more of one than the other. I have not had an issue yet but I'm also using like 115gs at a time for the reservoir so the odds of a hydro grower not scooping evenly is low, IMO. I'm just trying to give MC a little credit here. I'm trying to be critical but fair. I read somewhere of users blending up the 'balls and sand' into a powder form which is not a bad idea. Unnecessary, IMO, but a potential solution too.


it's all good. The most i ever mixed at one time was 5 gallons worth of solution. I dis resort to sifting out the chunks of cal mag,grinding them up in a blender and mixing it all back together. For whatever reason my 20g of MC wound up somewhere around 350-400 ppm on the low end, or 1100 on the high side. That's when i threw in the towel on MC. lol


----------



## lukio (Oct 9, 2019)

looking really healthy. She looks different to my cut, mine leans pretty heavy Sour D i reckon.


----------



## swedsteven (Oct 10, 2019)

I pull 53 oz from 1280 watts but i did use mkp "koolbloom" and with led 2.6umol


----------



## Keesje (Oct 12, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> IMO, megacrop has always been a complete food that could be used with success as a standalone food. My issue with them is the high amount of N in their formula when used in hydro. Update coming..


The amount of N is also responsible for more leaves, as you said.
Which line or brand (available worldwide  ) would you suggest for hydro?
Would Canna Aqua be better to get less leaves?


----------



## horribleherk (Oct 12, 2019)

I've been pretty quiet & taking this all in really liking your thread not only the comparison but all the other tidbits of info that will benefit you no matter whatever your nutrient choice is I use m\c and notice the balled up stuff in it as well the blender is a good idea I'll let you know how that goes , great thread !


----------



## Kushash (Oct 12, 2019)

horribleherk said:


> I've been pretty quiet & taking this all in really liking your thread not only the comparison but all the other tidbits of info that will benefit you no matter whatever your nutrient choice is I use m\c and notice the balled up stuff in it as well the blender is a good idea I'll let you know how that goes , great thread !


Are you talking about the balls and sand @homebrewer mentioned in the dry mix?
Not sure what your seeing but a blender might not be a good if some of the elements are lightly coated to dissolve slower (the balls).
Some elements like phosphorus or calcium might have a coating to release slower than other elements in the sandy mix to avoid reactions between those that don't play well together.
I'm guessing the balls have elements that dissolve slower and if grinded in a blender might affect solubility.
Not sure just 2c.


----------



## horribleherk (Oct 12, 2019)

Kushash said:


> Are you talking about the balls and sand @homebrewer mentioned in the dry mix?
> Not sure what your seeing but a blender might not be a good if some of the elements are lightly coated to dissolve slower (the balls).
> Some elements like phosphorus or calcium might have a coating to release slower than other elements in the sandy mix to avoid reactions between those that don't play well together.
> I'm guessing the balls have elements that dissolve slower and if grinded in a blender might affect solubility.
> Not sure just 2c.


Its all blended now lol ... I'll share my results if it didn't go well I'll feed the first of it in the morning


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## Kushash (Oct 12, 2019)

horribleherk said:


> Its all blended now lol ... I'll share my results if it didn't go well I'll feed the first of it in the morning


I'm curious. I am only guessing on the slow release vs the quick release.
I figure that is how they are able to make it a 1 part solution without having a bad reaction between things like phosphorus and calcium.
From what I understand it is why calcium is in the 1st part of 2 or 3 part solutions and phosphorus is in part 2 and or 3.


----------



## horribleherk (Oct 12, 2019)

Kushash said:


> I'm curious. I am only guessing on the slow release vs the quick release.
> I figure that is how they are able to make it a 1 part solution without having a bad reaction between things like phosphorus and calcium.
> From what I understand it is why calcium is in the 1st part of 2 or 3 part solutions and phosphorus is in part 2 and or 3.


I only do single plant grows & mix small batches got tired of those balls rolling off the spoon it will take a week to see if I get any negative effect from it


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 13, 2019)

Keesje said:


> The amount of N is also responsible for more leaves, as you said.
> Which line or brand (available worldwide  ) would you suggest for hydro?
> Would Canna Aqua be better to get less leaves?


It looks like Aqua Flores (intended for flowering in hydro) is a two part: 3-0-6 & 0-4-4. Combined you're looking at a NPK of 3-4-10 which is OK in hydro for flowering but I think adding more P to that mix would be ideal. So maybe adding DG's Magpro (2-15-4) as a booster would help? Maybe botanicare's Hydroplex (0-10-6), GH's Kool bloom (0-10-10), or Canna's PK 13/14. I think to get the best results in hydro the ratio of nitrogen-to-phosphorous should be something in the ballpark of 1:3. Potassium levels should be around the P levels or higher. Supplying more K than needed doesn't harm the plants unlike supplying excessive N or P.


----------



## Nizza (Oct 13, 2019)

perhaps these "balls" are supposed to be "balls" so they break down slower?


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## Keesje (Oct 14, 2019)

What I like about this topic is that Homebrewer explains a lot about what he sees, what is happening and why it is happening.


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## Renfro (Oct 14, 2019)

I think the megacrop will out yield the dynagrow. My main concern would be if the nitrogen is too high for late flower. Will you get the fade in late flower. Time will tell... Definitely following along.


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## Keesje (Oct 14, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I think the megacrop will out yield the dynagrow.


What makes you come to this conclusion?
Is it looking at the pics in this thread? Or do you have good experience with MegaCrop?

At first I thought that 1 product for both veg and flower was great, but looking at the different needs of a plant in different stages, I am not so sure it actually is that great.


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## Renfro (Oct 14, 2019)

How dark green they are at this point.


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## Keesje (Oct 14, 2019)

Oops, I added something in my previous post after you answered. Sorry for that.


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## Renfro (Oct 14, 2019)

Keesje said:


> At first I thought that 1 product for both veg and flower was great, but looking at the different needs of a plant in different stages,


Yes it is good to be able to reduce nitrogen in flowering and increase potassium and phosphorous. Megacrop, that uses calcium nitrate correct? So dropping cal nitrate may leave you hanging for calcium.

I have found my 3 part GH flora series is still my go to, with stuff like calimagic, armor si, MKP, potassium sulfate.

Someday I may try to replicate the GH products using dry salts and see if I can manage to save money but for quality I have figured out a formula with GH that actually does extremely well in both veg and flower, just adding a little MKP in late flower and reducing micro a tad is all I do.

I have found veg is very tolerant of feeds and often a good flowering feed is sometimes good for veg believe it or not.


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## homebrewer (Oct 14, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yes it is good to be able to reduce nitrogen in flowering and increase potassium and phosphorous. Megacrop, that uses calcium nitrate correct? So dropping cal nitrate may leave you hanging for calcium.
> 
> I have found my 3 part GH flora series is still my go to, with stuff like calimagic, armor si, MKP, potassium sulfate.
> 
> ...


MC is a 1-part so to tweak your NPK in flowering one would have to cut back the base and add a booster. That doesn't give one a lot of flexibility though and to be honest I don't know that one needs _a lot _of flexibility in flower. The ability though to sort of scale back N after a couple weeks would be nice. The Green Leaf folks do offer a 0-19-39 booster but adding that product kind of cuts into the 'cost of use' which seems to be a big selling point for a lot of people.


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## homebrewer (Oct 21, 2019)

These photos were taken last week but I just didn't have the time to post an update. 

*Day 42 below...*

So this past week I had to add a second level of support as these plants are really starting to lean. I also noticed that since they're a bit taller than normal they're wanting to lean towards a neighboring light (picture below). This will likely result in additional yield so I don't know if my yield numbers here will be comparable to previous runs. It is what it is. Yield will be an important metric but I think flower formation could more a more telling sign in terms of MC's production performance in hydro. We still have about 3 weeks left so there is plenty of time left for swelling. 




Leaning....



Mega Crop resin shot:





*DynaGro Day 42...*



DynaGro resin...


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## homebrewer (Oct 27, 2019)

*Day 49*

These pictures were taken a few days ago on day 49. Plant health looks great, growth is fine, and branches are starting to snap. Last week I had a couple colas hanging down between the wall and the back of the tray that I had to repair. You can kind of see their indentation on the canopy. 

There really isn't anything to report. MC is supplying everything the plants need for healthy growth. There are zero deficiencies and the closest thing to an 'issue' that I see is the higher dose of N than needed by the plants at this stage. Even after lowering the EC by 5-10% I'm still seeing a bit of discoloration on a leaf here and there. It's nothing I'm concerned about. 



The lean....



Mega Crop resin...



DynaGro day 49 coming after brunch....


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## homebrewer (Oct 28, 2019)

*DynaGro Day 49*

It's kinda hard to compare these two trays to one another as the MC plants got about a foot taller than the DG plants. Even then, I think the 'visual yield' of the DG tray looks greater than the MC tray. In terms of 'visual quality' they seem similar enough. I do think the MegaCrop plants are leafier though. I see more leaves growing out of the MC flowers themselves as compared to the DG flowers. Some folks call those sugar leaves? Call them what you will, they'll need to be trimmed off come harvest. 

This is all speculation at this point in time. We still have 2 full weeks of growth left before they'll come down. 





DynaGro Resin...


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## Keesje (Oct 28, 2019)

Really appreciate that you take all this effort!


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## swedsteven (Oct 28, 2019)

Look like megacrop side got hit by a basseball bat right in the middle !


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## homebrewer (Oct 28, 2019)

swedsteven said:


> Look like megacrop side got hit by a basseball bat right in the middle !


They're getting their lean on!


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## Madriffer (Nov 1, 2019)

Is the extra foot of vertical growth due to MC?


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## homebrewer (Nov 1, 2019)

Madriffer said:


> Is the extra foot of vertical growth due to MC?


Nah, they started out about a foot taller. Maybe not quite a foot but they were bigger than the DG gals.


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## Madriffer (Nov 1, 2019)

It's good to see your comparison grows. I've been on MC about 2 years now. I'm highly satisfied with it.


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## homebrewer (Nov 1, 2019)

Madriffer said:


> It's good to see your comparison grows. I've been on MC about 2 years now. I'm highly satisfied with it.


Do you add anything to it during flower?


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## Wastei (Nov 2, 2019)

Keesje said:


> @Dyna-Gro'n
> I guess Dyna-gro is only available in the USA and Canada?


You can get it from UK vendors. They will send to countries in the EU


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## Keesje (Nov 2, 2019)

I only saw it for orchids in the UK


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## Wastei (Nov 2, 2019)

Keesje said:


> I only saw it for orchids in the UK


Haha yes what the site is targeted for doesnt really matter. Exactly the same line of products!


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## Madriffer (Nov 2, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> Do you add anything to it during flower?


I've added PK boost in the past. I've used MCs and Cannas. Didn't see enough true difference to justify the expense or the added time and labor. I'm pheno hunting a new strain so may try again once I've dialed in a new monocrop. I just change res every 2 weeks, and H2O only to top off. 5g per moms and veg, 6g per flower. 15 min flood every 2 hours veg and moms, 15 every hour for the flower room. Hand water DTW coco as needed.


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## Madriffer (Nov 2, 2019)

Mother Veg room. The ones in coco are 10 days from transplant, watered once from moms res by hand. Small ones in flood table a week just getting their feet under them and ready for take off.


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## iShatterBladderz (Nov 3, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> *DynaGro Day 49*
> 
> It's kinda hard to compare these two trays to one another as the MC plants got about a foot taller than the DG plants. Even then, I think the 'visual yield' of the DG tray looks greater than the MC tray. In terms of 'visual quality' they seem similar enough. I do think the MegaCrop plants are leafier though. I see more leaves growing out of the MC flowers themselves as compared to the DG flowers. Some folks call those sugar leaves? Call them what you will, they'll need to be trimmed off come harvest.
> 
> ...



just out of curiosity, did you run FP through veg and then Bloom through flower? Is there any benefit to incorporating bloom at all in a coco grow? I’m using 70 percent buffered coco and 30 percent perlite, feeding DTW. I’ve got gallons of FP,MP,Protekt and bloom so I have it if I need it. Also I seen you mention using mag-pro in flower, my plan was only to use mag pro if I have mag deficiencies running RO water. If I’m not having problems with mag deficiencies, can adding mag pro during flower throw off the CA:MG ratio enough to cause problems?


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 3, 2019)

iShatterBladderz said:


> just out of curiosity, did you run FP through veg and then Bloom through flower? Is there any benefit to incorporating bloom at all in a coco grow? I’m using 70 percent buffered coco and 30 percent perlite, feeding DTW. I’ve got gallons of FP,MP,Protekt and bloom so I have it if I need it. Also I seen you mention using mag-pro in flower, my plan was only to use mag pro if I have mag deficiencies running RO water. If I’m not having problems with mag deficiencies, can adding mag pro during flower throw off the CA:MG ratio enough to cause problems?


I haven't grown with that exact blend so I can't tell you exactly what to do. That being said, if you're feeding with say 100% bloom during flower at a reasonable EC and your plants are starting to yellow then it's clear that the plants need more N. Personally I'd go with Foliage pro from start to finish but maybe a 50/50 blend of FP and bloom could be an interesting experiment during flower?

Protekt (or any silica product) can be added at any time in all growing situations. Magpro is probably not needed. You could use it with foliago pro and essentially accomplish the same thing as a 50/50 FP and bloom split but you'd probably be more like 80/20 with FP and MP.


----------



## iShatterBladderz (Nov 3, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> I haven't grown with that exact blend so I can't tell you exactly what to do. That being said, if you're feeding with say 100% bloom during flower at a reasonable EC and your plants are starting to yellow then it's clear that the plants need more N. Personally I'd go with Foliage pro from start to finish but maybe a 50/50 blend of FP and bloom could be an interesting experiment during flower?
> 
> Protekt (or any silica product) can be added at any time in all growing situations. Magpro is probably not needed. You could use it with foliago pro and essentially accomplish the same thing as a 50/50 FP and bloom split but you'd probably be more like 80/20 with FP and MP.


In your experience, are there any shortcomings to a FP only grow in coco that incorporating bloom into might address? I think I even seen a video where the owner of DG said that for cannabis he recommends FP and Protekt from seed to harvest. I might have to try both with the same pheno side by side, as I know people personally who use bloom and have amazing flower but I also have seen like ten years of posts from you using DG, nobody else I know has been using it that long. I‘m growing on a fairly small scale, so I don’t mind having the extra work that comes with mixing FP and Bloom, getting the best end product in terms of quality is my main priority, yield matters but is hardly something I am worried about.

Also, I am a newcomer to coco, I have typically fed water only for the first two weeks before adding any nutes, in a coco grow, how long,if at all, should I wait before I start feeding FP and do I need to be feeding anything in the meantime other than water?


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## Wastei (Nov 4, 2019)

iShatterBladderz said:


> In your experience, are there any shortcomings to a FP only grow in coco that incorporating bloom into might address? I think I even seen a video where the owner of DG said that for cannabis he recommends FP and Protekt from seed to harvest. I might have to try both with the same pheno side by side, as I know people personally who use bloom and have amazing flower but I also have seen like ten years of posts from you using DG, nobody else I know has been using it that long. I‘m growing on a fairly small scale, so I don’t mind having the extra work that comes with mixing FP and Bloom, getting the best end product in terms of quality is my main priority, yield matters but is hardly something I am worried about.
> 
> Also, I am a newcomer to coco, I have typically fed water only for the first two weeks before adding any nutes, in a coco grow, how long,if at all, should I wait before I start feeding FP and do I need to be feeding anything in the meantime other than water?


Coco is a inert media containing no nutrient. You feed from start to finish. Start at 1/3 strength and work up to half strength of recommendations. I ran Canna Coco back in the days while I was running Coco. Works really well and contains more calcium than any other nutrient line.

I would grow in Promix/peat instead. Your will always waste nutrients because of the buffer aspect of Coco. The little extra yield is not worth the extra work and hassle in my experience.


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## homebrewer (Nov 4, 2019)

iShatterBladderz said:


> In your experience, are there any shortcomings to a FP only grow in coco that incorporating bloom into might address? I think I even seen a video where the owner of DG said that for cannabis he recommends FP and Protekt from seed to harvest. I might have to try both with the same pheno side by side, as I know people personally who use bloom and have amazing flower but I also have seen like ten years of posts from you using DG, nobody else I know has been using it that long.


The only 'issue' with using FP in a coco and perlite blend is that in terms of watering frequency you're getting close to hydro and higher doses of N than needed tend to grow leafier, branchier plants. IMO, that's what we're seeing here with mega crop. If you know what you're doing you can prune the sh*t out of your plants to avoid the leafy, airy flowers that will inevitably be produced but if you don't do that well then yields can suffer. In this case with mega crop and in your situation where bloom might be added to foliage pro, a higher dose of P and K could knock back the N content to a more reasonable level and improve yields by focusing production on fewer, higher quality flowering sites.



iShatterBladderz said:


> I‘m growing on a fairly small scale, so I don’t mind having the extra work that comes with mixing FP and Bloom, getting the best end product in terms of quality is my main priority, yield matters but is hardly something I am worried about.


Bloom and foliage pro can be mixed together in their concentrated form. I actually have an 80/20 bloom/FP mix sitting around in a 4 ounce bottle for when I top off my reservoirs and add back some food.



iShatterBladderz said:


> Also, I am a newcomer to coco, I have typically fed water only for the first two weeks before adding any nutes, in a coco grow, how long,if at all, should I wait before I start feeding FP and do I need to be feeding anything in the meantime other than water?


I agree with @Wastei. Plants grown in coco need food from the get-go. In your case with DG's foliage pro, literally 1ml/gal is plenty.


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## homebrewer (Nov 7, 2019)

We're at exactly 9 weeks today and I'll likely start chopping away tomorrow. I'm going to do a final wrap up once yield numbers are in but at this point I can comment on a few things. Overall I didn't love working with Mega Crop. It's a complete dry food that is just kind of dusty and dirty to work with. I didn't love weighing it, premixing it in a bucket with a few gallons of water, then lugging that bucket into my flowering area to mix with the rest of my reservoir. I'd suspect that MC required 15 minutes of additional work at every weekly res change as compared to just about any liquid food that I've ever used; DynaGro in this case. MC did dissolve completely but it did take about 10 minutes or so of stirring and settling, stirring and settling, and more stirring and settling. Once MC was in the reservoir it was consistent as it needed an initial pH adjustment and then one more a few days later. So overall fairly low maintenance to use. However, MC did grow branchier plants as compared to DG and did require lots of trimming and pruning for the first 3 weeks. Things do look chunky though and plant health really couldn't be better so the yield numbers should be interesting. 

Mega Crop at harvest...



DynaGro at harvest...



Mega Crop resin...



DynaGro resin...



Mega Crop chunkiness (obligatory lighter picture)....




More Mega Crop chunkiness...



Floppy Mega Crop flower...


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## swedsteven (Nov 7, 2019)

Megacrop Rock cant wait to see your smoke report


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## homebrewer (Nov 7, 2019)

swedsteven said:


> Megacrop Rock cant wait to see your smoke report


I can post a report but in my experience the quality of the flowers is a function of plant health and if you have healthy plants at harvest then that's about as good as it gets, regardless of what you've use to get there. Flavor can change a bit I guess? I vape out of a volcano so everything is tasty out of that thing.


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## Kushash (Nov 7, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> We're at exactly 9 weeks today and I'll likely start chopping away tomorrow. I'm going to do a final wrap up once yield numbers are in but at this point I can comment on a few things. Overall I didn't love working with Mega Crop. It's a complete dry food that is just kind of dusty and dirty to work with. I didn't love weighing it, premixing it in a bucket with a few gallons of water, then lugging that bucket into my flowering area to mix with the rest of my reservoir. I'd suspect that MC required 15 minutes of additional work at every weekly res change as compared to just about any liquid food that I've ever used; DynaGro in this case. MC did dissolve completely but it did take about 10 minutes or so of stirring and settling, stirring and settling, and more stirring and settling. Once MC was in the reservoir it was consistent as it needed an initial pH adjustment and then one more a few days later. So overall fairly low maintenance to use. However, MC did grow branchier plants as compared to DG and did require lots of trimming and pruning for the first 3 weeks. Things do look chunky though and plant health really couldn't be better so the yield numbers should be interesting.
> 
> Mega Crop at harvest...
> 
> ...


It would be interesting to know what elements dissolve slower or if they coat some elements to dissolve slower to avoid binding.


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## dubekoms (Nov 7, 2019)

Awesome comparison and a great grow @homebrewer I'm excited to see the weight difference between the two, if there is any.


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## homebrewer (Nov 7, 2019)

Kushash said:


> It would be interesting to know what elements dissolve slower or if they coat some elements to dissolve slower to avoid binding.


I think some of the Mega Crop crew would know. It's the 'balls' part of the food. I think that's calcium nitrate maybe? It just takes some minutes to fully dissolve.


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## dubekoms (Nov 7, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> I think some of the Mega Crop crew would know. It's the 'balls' part of the food. I think that's calcium nitrate maybe? It just takes some minutes to fully dissolve.


The balls (calcium nitrate)take the longest to dissolve ime. I dump it in, give it a stir, wait a few minutes and stir again which gets everything dissolved.


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## Axion42 (Nov 7, 2019)

Nice job on this grow. By the looks of it I say DG wins on weight and appearance.


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## Kushash (Nov 7, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> I think some of the Mega Crop crew would know. It's the 'balls' part of the food. I think that's calcium nitrate maybe? It just takes some minutes to fully dissolve.


I would have guessed calcium or phosphorus would be slow released while the other is quickly released to keep them from binding.
@horribleherk grinded up the balls a few weeks back in a blender. Any results from doing that?


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## Madriffer (Nov 8, 2019)

I don't pre mix MC at res changes. Weigh, dump in res and use my wand to mix and stir while filling. First table flood will assure complete mixing. I used to make flurries, even tried my blender once. Made no discernable difference. I have 18, 27, 50 and 70 gal reservoirs, size doesn't matter either.
The extra branching with the MC intrigues me. I may have e to get some DG and check that out. I do NOT want the extra branching in my SOG. I gave up on the GG#4 for that very reason.


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## Keesje (Nov 8, 2019)

the extra branching is because of the amount of N, so says @homebrewer

Always wondered how a nutrient could be the same for both veg and flower.
It might look handy but it also must have a downside. Guess the 'extra branching' is one of those downsides.


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## homebrewer (Nov 8, 2019)

Madriffer said:


> I don't pre mix MC at res changes. Weigh, dump in res and use my wand to mix and stir while filling. First table flood will assure complete mixing. I used to make flurries, even tried my blender once. Made no discernable difference. I have 18, 27, 50 and 70 gal reservoirs, size doesn't matter either.


I tried mixing it in my reservoir and while it did eventually mix, for me it took longer and required more effort as compared to a bucket.



Madriffer said:


> The extra branching with the MC intrigues me. I may have e to get some DG and check that out. I do NOT want the extra branching in my SOG. I gave up on the GG#4 for that very reason.


It's not just MegaCrop, it's any food in hydro with a higher dose of N than needed. I've grown with DG's Grow (7-9-5) and their Foliage Pro (9-3-6) all the way through in hydro and saw leafier, branchier plants. If you ever try DG, hit me up for a good recipe.


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## Nizza (Nov 8, 2019)

I loved using DG back in the world of hempy thread 
Loving your threads and info too HB. I plan on using my sample of megacrop with my next grow in a hydroponic reservoir. Just have to decide which type of hydro system I'm going to use. I have only done passive hempy's before and want to do something a little more automated but still simple. As soon as I get my 5x5 flowering chamber figured out, I might take some clones and set something up with a few of them in my micro chamber. Do you mind if I tag you in there when I get to it so I can get some input?


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## homebrewer (Nov 8, 2019)

Nizza said:


> I loved using DG back in the world of hempy thread
> Loving your threads and info too HB. I plan on using my sample of megacrop with my next grow in a hydroponic reservoir. Just have to decide which type of hydro system I'm going to use. I have only done passive hempy's before and want to do something a little more automated but still simple. As soon as I get my 5x5 flowering chamber figured out, I might take some clones and set something up with a few of them in my micro chamber. Do you mind if I tag you in there when I get to it so I can get some input?


Feel free! I'm sure I'll be around.


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## jdmcwestevo (Nov 9, 2019)

very interested to see final numbers thanks for such an awesome comparison


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## lukio (Nov 9, 2019)

nice grow, dude.

whats the tipping from? ive had this on the last two MC grows at 0.9 ec. ive switched nutes


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## tk240 (Nov 20, 2019)

I watched the original threads Homebrewer did back around 2011. They were awesome and the whole forum was watching and commenting. I tried to message him for the results of the Great White test but I couldn't because my post count was too low (0). It has been almost 10 years I've had this account so when I happened to see this thread come up I thought what better time for a first post than now. Another great, infomative and honest thread, great job. Please let me know or PM me about the great white from way back when and how you feel about floralicious + and bring closure to this almost decade long mystery haha. Good to see you are still around man.


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## ISK (Nov 20, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> MC did dissolve completely but it did take about 10 minutes or so of stirring and settling, stirring and settling, and more stirring and settling.


Awesome thread Homebrewer, 2 thumbs up.

I use powder nutes (GH Maxi-Bloom) and had similar issues with mixing, stirring, shaking, settling, then do it again and again to get it 100% dissolved. 

My solution is to use a food blender...I have an old Kenmore blender that is dedicated to mixing my nutes and it works extremely efficient. 

I would suggest considering picking up an old blender if you ever decided to use MC again

cheers
ISK


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## westcoast420 (Nov 20, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> Feel free! I'm sure I'll be around.


How do you find the density of the buds at this stage comparatively? Any difference in smell or terpenes?


----------



## iShatterBladderz (Nov 20, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> The only 'issue' with using FP in a coco and perlite blend is that in terms of watering frequency you're getting close to hydro and higher doses of N than needed tend to grow leafier, branchier plants. IMO, that's what we're seeing here with mega crop. If you know what you're doing you can prune the sh*t out of your plants to avoid the leafy, airy flowers that will inevitably be produced but if you don't do that well then yields can suffer. In this case with mega crop and in your situation where bloom might be added to foliage pro, a higher dose of P and K could knock back the N content to a more reasonable level and improve yields by focusing production on fewer, higher quality flowering sites.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


just wanted to check back in with you, your suggestions have been working great for me. I started feeding just 1ml/gal foliage pro, and then they started getting light around day 10 so I bumped it up to 2ml/gal and they’ve been exploding. I’ll probably start adding protekt soon, I was hesitant at first because I’ve got to use more ph down to offset the protekt, but I think they’re getting big enough that I feel comfortable doing that. Here are two shots of them,first one was taken two days ago, the day after I bumped up the feed, second was taken today at day 13 from sprout.



Should I bump it up to 2.5ml/gal in week 3, or do you think I’ll be good at 2ml for a minute?


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 20, 2019)

iShatterBladderz said:


> Should I bump it up to 2.5ml/gal in week 3, or do you think I’ll be good at 2ml for a minute?


Honestly you could probably do 2mls/gal until you harvest them. Think about it: the bigger they get, the more water they'll need. The more water they get, the more actual food they'll get when watered. Make sense? There is no need to increase watering volume _and_ feeding strength. That's 2 increases at the same time.


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 20, 2019)

westcoast420 said:


> How do you find the density of the buds at this stage comparatively?


The plants have been harvested but if you had asked me this question during the last week of flower I'd say....

The density is OK. The head buds are as dense as you'd expect. It's that second tier of flowers that are on the less-dense side. That could be corrected with a bloom booster. I'm not saying the booster would add weight by increasing the density of the buds I grew, it would most likely just grow fewer flowers in the same space (because of less branching) which would result in better overall density, if that makes sense.




> Any difference in smell or terpenes?


Yes but that's not due to the plant foods. I normally use floralicious plus which will increase the aroma of your flowers. I'm not using that in this grow but overall the strength and character of the aroma is as expected for a grow where I didn't use FL+. If I added FL+ I would expect identical aromas between MegaCrop and DynaGro grows.


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## homebrewer (Nov 20, 2019)

lukio said:


> nice grow, dude.
> 
> whats the tipping from? ive had this on the last two MC grows at 0.9 ec. ive switched nutes


The tipping plants in the hydro tray? I let them get a little bigger than normal during veg and the weight of the flowers during flowering is why some of the upper branches were laying on their side. That's one reason why I have that homemade trellis.


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## lukio (Nov 20, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> The tipping plants in the hydro tray? I let them get a little bigger than normal during veg and the weight of the flowers during flowering is why some of the upper branches were laying on their side. That's one reason why I have that homemade trellis.


yo, nah the burnt looking tips, here -



too much food or something else?


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## homebrewer (Nov 20, 2019)

lukio said:


> yo, nah the burnt looking tips, here -
> 
> View attachment 4424041
> 
> too much food or something else?


Definitely a cal/mag deficiency .


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## iShatterBladderz (Nov 20, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> Definitely a cal/mag deficiency .


youre being facetious right? Lol


----------



## FlakeyFoont (Nov 20, 2019)

ISK said:


> Awesome thread Homebrewer, 2 thumbs up.
> 
> I use powder nutes (GH Maxi-Bloom) and had similar issues with mixing, stirring, shaking, settling, then do it again and again to get it 100% dissolved.
> 
> ...


I'm using the latest iteration of MC. In a 5 Gallon bucket of room temp RO, it takes about 30 seconds of stirring for it to completely dissolve, and I do mean completely... ok,maybe 35 seconds, lol!

The previous version did take a bit longer, maybe a minute and 30, I do stir pretty softly.

I used Dyna Grow a while ago for quite a while, and stopped when I noticed that something was precipitating out, and making glass-like shards at the bottom of the jug. I probably should have shaken the shit out of the jug when I used it, but didn't realize that was needed. It also made it really hard for me to get a stable pH with my well water.

I'm not dissing Dyna Grow or Homebrewer, just sayin' what's happened here.


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## CoB_nUt (Nov 20, 2019)

@homebrewer which version of MC was this comparison run? V2 or V3? I really dug V1 even tho it was dusty as hell and ultra hydrophilic. V2 was Purdy good. V3,well something was definitely different and my plants took less bs from me before they got fussy. I'm thinking about going back to Jack's.

Thank you for running this comparison.


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## homebrewer (Nov 20, 2019)

CoB_nUt said:


> @homebrewer which version of MC was this comparison run? V2 or V3? I really dug V1 even tho it was dusty as hell and ultra hydrophilic. V2 was Purdy good. V3,well something was definitely different and my plants took less bs from me before they got fussy. I'm thinking about going back to Jack's.
> 
> Thank you for running this comparison.


I'm pretty sure I'm using their V2.


----------



## iShatterBladderz (Nov 21, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> Honestly you could probably do 2mls/gal until you harvest them. Think about it: the bigger they get, the more water they'll need. The more water they get, the more actual food they'll get when watered. Make sense? There is no need to increase watering volume _and_ feeding strength. That's 2 increases at the same time.


Is 2ml a strong dose? I just read on an older post while browsing that you usually feed 1.5ml/gal, is this still the case?
also, question about my water, I plan on getting an RO system but in the meantime, our tap water is only about 60ppm. Do you think this along with FP will have enough calcium, or should I pick up a cal mag supplement just in case? Is there a way I can easily add calcium without mg? I have a friend who was telling me that he wasn’t able to use mag-pro at all because it would cause calcium deficiencies with our tap water. I pulled up the water analysis for our city but I don’t see calcium being tested for, unless I’m missing something. Here’s a link if you feel like giving it a look for me: https://www.cityoftulsa.org/media/10288/tmua_2019_annualwaterqualityrpt_single.pdf

my water is fairly high PH out the tap, after adding FP, I have to use 1.25ml/ gallon of PH down to about 6.0 so I’ve been hesitant to start adding in protekt as i don’t want to have to use too much ph down. Is this a valid concern or am I overthinking this and I should just add the protekt if I want to?

thanks again for all the help, I’m sure you get tired of answering questions all day long, but anywhere else I ask about DG I get such varying answers, but I trust your knowledge since you have so much damn experience with the dg line lol.


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 21, 2019)

iShatterBladderz said:


> Is 2ml a strong dose? I just read on an older post while browsing that you usually feed 1.5ml/gal, is this still the case?
> also, question about my water, I plan on getting an RO system but in the meantime, our tap water is only about 60ppm. Do you think this along with FP will have enough calcium, or should I pick up a cal mag supplement just in case? Is there a way I can easily add calcium without mg? I have a friend who was telling me that he wasn’t able to use mag-pro at all because it would cause calcium deficiencies with our tap water. I pulled up the water analysis for our city but I don’t see calcium being tested for, unless I’m missing something. Here’s a link if you feel like giving it a look for me: https://www.cityoftulsa.org/media/10288/tmua_2019_annualwaterqualityrpt_single.pdf


The back of the DG bottle recommends 1/2 tsp so 2mls/gal isn't far off from their recommended dose.

You don't need the RO system with 60ppm water. 

You wont need additional calcium.

You don't need magpro either. You friend wasn't seeing a 'deficiency' because of magpro, he was seeing what happens when you add a bloom booster when one isn't needed.



> my water is fairly high PH out the tap, after adding FP, I have to use 1.25ml/ gallon of PH down to about 6.0 so I’ve been hesitant to start adding in protekt as i don’t want to have to use too much ph down. Is this a valid concern or am I overthinking this and I should just add the protekt if I want to?


You don't need to pH your inputs. Just add protekt if you want to add it. Not too much though.


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 21, 2019)

lukio said:


> yo, nah the burnt looking tips, here -
> 
> View attachment 4424041
> 
> too much food or something else?


All joking aside, I think it's important to look at the overall health of the plant instead of worrying about the health of every single last leaf. Why does 1% of that leaf by weight look like it got a little more nitrogen than needed? Probably because it did? Or it could be an environmental thing? Maybe that leaf was closer to a light than it wanted? Maybe there was some airflow that was hitting that leaf in a way it didn't like? I've seen it 100 times. Growers who worry about the health of every singe last leaf will inevitably over-correct the 'issue' and subsequently tank an entire grow.


----------



## lukio (Nov 21, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> All joking aside, I think it's important to look at the overall health of the plant instead of worrying about the health of every single last leaf. Why does 1% of that leaf by weight look like it got a little more nitrogen than needed? Probably because it did? Or it could be an environmental thing? Maybe that leaf was closer to a light than it wanted? Maybe there was some airflow that was hitting that leaf in a way it didn't like? I've seen it 100 times. Growers who worry about the health of every singe last leaf will inevitably over-correct the 'issue' and subsequently tank an entire grow.


i asked because ive had the same from V2 not V1. i Dont think its too much N, i think its a Cal problem. I think they changed it rather quickly because of this. Ive grown a lot of weed on Megacrop...but ive just dropped it.


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 21, 2019)

lukio said:


> i asked because ive had the same from V2 not V1. i Dont think its too much N, i think its a Cal problem. I think they changed it rather quickly because of this. Ive grown a lot of weed on Megacrop...but ive just dropped it.


You can be 100% sure that it has nothing to do with calcium, hence my joke above.


----------



## hybridway2 (Nov 21, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> *pH*
> 
> Once the first MegaCrop reservoir was all weighed out, mixed up, and completely dissolved, I was pleasantly surprised to see MegaCrop buffer itself to a pH of 5.77. However, after 4 days the pH has climbed to 6.70 which in my experience is to be expected with foods high in nitrate N (this exact amount of pH rise is what I saw with the General Hydroponics 3-part too). They seem to have an ever-rising pH which tends to require an adjustment every couple/few days. You can actually get away with not adjusting the pH at all and despite what some will say, it won’t result in any deficiencies or ‘lock outs’, but you are likely leaving some yield on the table at the end if you're not more exact about your pH. I like a range of say 5.6 - 6.3 in hydro.
> 
> In comparison with DynaGro, I've found the pH of DG's foods to be the best that I've ever tried. More-or-less rock-solid pH stability from start to finish. One thing to note is that DG's base nutrients are acidic (like many other brands) and their Protekt product is alkaline, one can strike a 'base/protekt balance' to balance your reservoir's pH from the get-go. So lets say for example you need 100 mls of DG's bloom in your reservoir, maybe with the pH of your tap water that can be balanced with 50 mls of protekt.? It takes a little trial and error in 1-gallon jugs but once that balanced is achieved you can pretty much throw your pH pen in the trash.


Any nute that requires silica to balance the feed (temporarily) is crap. 
The instructions say 4ml/gall. 
Ok, you like smoking silicone. 
DynaGrow makes NO sense & the only way you can use it is with major modifications to the schedule. 
They even say add it after to raise ph. If need be, which it does.
Silica should always be added first. Sure a lil won't hurt but it separates, should not have to be done. 
The ph is so low the only way i can see using DynaGrow is just add enough base to not drop past 6.0. If youre short nutes oh well. 
Crappola


----------



## hybridway2 (Nov 21, 2019)

Keesje said:


> Rising pH sucks!
> I had that years ago. It drove me crazy.
> If this is the case with MegaCrop then it is almost already a no go for me.
> 
> ...


Ph drops like crazy with DG even after 1/2 gall. Silica. Just a few days later.
His name is Homebrewer for a reason. Beer? Doubt it. Teas, & anything to make DG work, most likely. 
Instructions tell me enough about a clueless company.


----------



## dakindgrind (Nov 21, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> Definitely a cal/mag deficiency .


Great comparison for a one-part dry vs one-part bottled. 

FWIW I've always gauged tipping as a limit to how far strains can be pushed while riding the ec line. Especially helpful when there are many strains on the same feed schedule.

Personally I still like mixing 5-11-26 (thanks a million for that tip) and dry nutes as it soothes the science part of my brain.


----------



## hybridway2 (Nov 21, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> Sometimes your tap water will buffer the pH, usually upward, so using RO water instead may minimize those upward swings. In the defense of MC, every food that I've ever run in hydro drifted upward, except for DG. That upward drift is to be expected. I added hydro tables to the garden about a decade ago and pH isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be. If you were getting anal with MC then you'd likely want to adjust the pH 2x per week but I bet you could easily get by with an adjustment 1x per week. Seeing that (based on one reservoir) MC buffered itself to 5.77 on day 1, letting it drift upward is not a bad idea. Once it hits 6.4 or so, adjust it back to 5.6 and let it rise again. By the time you need to change your res I'm sure the pH will still be in an acceptable range.


Runnoff in CoCo was mega Dyna Low going in at 6.5. Weeks later even.


----------



## lukio (Nov 21, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> You can be 100% sure that it has nothing to do with calcium, hence my joke above.


nah. it turned into this twice in a row, these are my plants last round.


you saying thats not cal? interested in what you think that is? starts like your tipping and gets worse around weeks 9-10


heres some random sites diagnosis


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 21, 2019)

hybridway2 said:


> Any nute that requires silica to balance the feed (temporarily) is crap.


Well you can either add pH-up or you can add something beneficial to the plants. Your choice. 


> The instructions say 4ml/gall.


Advanced growers don't need instructions. Just a pH pen and a TDS meter. 


> Ok, you like smoking silicone.


I think you mean _silicon_, which is the 2nd most abundant element on earth.


> DynaGrow makes NO sense & the only way you can use it is with major modifications to the schedule.


I'll agree that their feeding schedule is not great, but only inexperienced growers follow schedules. To that, I've seen maybe one feeding schedule from a single plant food company that I'd consider spot on. All the rest of them instruct their users to overfeed and are overly complicated. Once you understand that feeding schedules exist more to move product than any other reason, you can stop taking them so literally. 


> They even say add it after to raise ph.
> Silica should always be added first. Sure a lil won't hurt but it separates, should not have to be done.


When mixing a fresh res with any plant food, silica should be added first, as you already know. You *could* also use it after everything is all mixed up to adjust the pH of your reservoir with zero issues BUT that is likely giving your plants more silica than needed. It's really no different than growers feeding plants additional amounts of cal/mag when their base nutrients already contain it. Feeding plants more of any single element than needed can cause nutritional issues in the plant.


> The ph is so low the only way i can see using DynaGrow is just add enough base to not drop past 6.0. If youre short nutes oh well.
> Crappola


Maybe you don't understand water chemistry? The bicarbonate content of your tap water buffers pH. If you use RO water then adding any plant food to it will cause the pH to drop _significantly_. For example, MegaCrop at 1.1 EC in RO water produces a resulting pH of 5.02. Straight DynaGro with my tap water results in a pH of 5.9. MC with my tap water results in a pH of 6.4ish. I fail to see the issue, regardless of where the pH falls. Have you heard of pH-up and pH-down? lol


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 21, 2019)

lukio said:


> nah. it turned into this twice in a row, these are my plants last round.
> View attachment 4424572
> 
> you saying thats not cal? interested in what you think that is? starts like your tipping and gets worse around weeks 9-10
> ...


First of all those plants look really nice. Secondly, if you _actually_ had a calcium issue, do you think for once second that your plants would have gotten to the finish line looking that chunky and frosty? No. Your plants either have enough calcium or they don't. It's literally that simple. Also, if you truly had a calcium issue, it would've shown up in veg. 

What are you feeding them and at what EC? What are they growing in?


----------



## hybridway2 (Nov 21, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> Well you can either add pH-up or you can add something beneficial to the plants. Your choice.
> Advanced growers don't need instructions. Just a pH pen and a TDS meter.
> I think you mean _silicon_, which is the 2nd most abundant element on earth.
> I'll agree that their feeding schedule is not great, but only inexperienced growers follow schedules. To that, I've seen maybe one feeding schedule from a single plant food company that I'd consider spot on. All the rest of them instruct their users to overfeed and are overly complicated. Once you understand that feeding schedules exist more to move product than any other reason, you can stop taking them so literally.
> ...


Not trying to be an asshole, really. 
I tried to modify the feed schedule i little before I gave up. 
Even feeding at a recommended dose put me around 300+ppm/500scale less then the schedule said it would. The ph mad low. 
Then tried to feed to get ph w/ 2ml, silica (something i do once a week if that) & ph up. Ph up raised the ppm's by another 3-400 putting me in range but not liking the idea of using ph up as a nutrient. 
Idk man. Maybe you got it down but until you actually share with others how then DynaGrows scheduale isnt even w/i the realm of reality.
To much Silica=/silicone, rubber plant-unhealthy.


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 21, 2019)

hybridway2 said:


> Not trying to be an asshole, really.
> I tried to modify the feed schedule i little before I gave up.
> Even feeding at a recommended dose put me around 300+ppm/500scale less then the schedule said it would. The ph mad low.
> Then tried to feed to get ph w/ 2ml, silica (something i do once a week if that) & ph up. Ph up raised the ppm's by another 3-400.
> ...


What were you growing in? What products were you using? RO or tap water?


----------



## Wastei (Nov 21, 2019)

hybridway2 said:


> Ph drops like crazy with DG even after 1/2 gall. Silica. Just a few days later.
> His name is Homebrewer for a reason. Beer? Doubt it. Teas, & anything to make DG work, most likely.
> Instructions tell me enough about a clueless company.


I guess you're a fool then who doesn't know how to grow in hydro. Dyno Gro is the most pH stable plant food I've ever used. Learn how to operate properly and come back please.

There is nothing wrong with any complete plant food, they all contain minerals and chelated minerals. I guess AN is the only one to really avoid because they use urea in their product lines. Different nitrate sources affect pH differently.

Homebrewer has done more for this community than you will ever do! Period.



hybridway2 said:


> To much Silica=/silicone, rubber plant-unhealthy.


 This made me lol. Did you miss chemistry in school or are you just a narrow minded asshole?


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## hybridway2 (Nov 21, 2019)

Wastei said:


> I guess you're a fool then who doesn't know how to grow in hydro. Dyno Gro is the most pH stable plant food I've ever used. Learn how to operate properly and come back please.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with any complete plant food, they all contain minerals and chelated minerals. I guess AN is the only one to really avoid because they use urea in their product lines. Different nitrate sources affect pH differently.
> 
> Homebrewer has done more for this community than you will ever do! Period.


Im not saying hes not a great contributor or good guy. You're missing the point. 
My point is if you cannot evdn come close to the schedule then how does one get started? 
The schedule makes no sense. 
Sure, maybe its a decent product, but sure as hell isn't based on feeding recommendations by the company. Even if you toned it down. 
I bought it to try seeking higher mag & P levels which i saw in MagPro. As leds tend to yank them right outta the plant.
Idk, maybe if someone could explain how to use this stuff w/o a ton of ph up or Silica,then id give it another go on a runt to test. Still, the ph dropped to the 4's in coco when was going in at 6.5. ???


----------



## Wastei (Nov 21, 2019)

hybridway2 said:


> Im not saying hes not a great contributor or good guy. You're missing the point.
> My point is if you cannot evdn come close to the schedule then how does one get started?
> The schedule makes no sense.
> Sure, maybe its a decent product, but sure as hell isn't based on feeding recommendations by the company. Even if you toned it down.
> ...


You learn plant nutrition by monitoring the plants. Not more or less. When I first started growing I followed homebrewers and other knowledgeable peoples guidelines on this site that had results to show for themselves.

Companies will always go for profit ie they want you to use as much of their products as possible.


----------



## dakindgrind (Nov 21, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> What were you growing in? What products were you using? RO or tap water?


 ^^^This might help others better understand how to address your situation @hybridway2. 

Using bottled nutrients general rule is start with 1/2 app rate and go from there. As Wastei said nute companies are in the business of selling nutes, more you use happier they are but what do your plants say?

As HB stated your water source, your growing media or other additives your using may be contributing to the wild pH swings.


----------



## TintEastwood (Nov 21, 2019)

Excellent grow shootout.

What kind of numbers you guys running? Here's some common profiles I've gathered for comparisons.


I think its in @Renfro killer spreadsheet. 

(No pc access...at hospital w sick mom)

On the silica dealio. 
Only for the first mix do I add silica last. (To learn how much I need to add for desired PH.)

Once known silica its always added first to my RO.

All other adjustments after that ate done with diluted ph up/down. (Coco dtw)


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## lukio (Nov 21, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> if you _actually_ had a calcium issue, do you think for once second that your plants would have gotten to the finish line looking that chunky and frosty? No.


cheers, but i disagree and they were nicer without it a couple grows before. one plant gave me the typical rust spots...

im in coco, feeding 1ec in flower with RO water, which by the way, i HAVE to add mag to if i dont want a deficiency. everything fine until late flower.

im all ears.

ive gone back to Canna Coco A+B and have a tonne of plants at week 3...my fingers are crossed it doesnt happen again.


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## homebrewer (Nov 21, 2019)

lukio said:


> cheers, but i disagree and they were nicer without it a couple grows before. one plant gave me the typical rust spots...
> 
> im in coco, feeding 1ec in flower with RO water, which by the way, i HAVE to add mag to if i dont want a deficiency. everything fine until late flower.
> 
> ...











Calcium Deficiency | Pests & Diseases


Random yellow spots on leaves. Curled leaves. Poorly developed young shoots or stems and fruits. Wilting of the plant. Stunted growth. Crops Apple, Pear, Grape, ...




plantix.net





Calcium is not mobile in plants. That means that mature and older leaves are generally unaffected. Given the fact your food has calcium in it, how exactly do you think those older leaves all-of-a-sudden developed a 'calcium deficiency' late in flower? Do you think the nutritional needs of these plants increase near harvest? They don't. To that, DynaGro has 2% calcium (which is about 1/3 the amount MegaCrop supplies). Where is my calcium deficiency? 

If I were you, I'd quit feeding so high. 1.0 EC in containers is almost double what I feed and you're watering probably 2x as much. So 4x the amount of salts running through your containers isn't an ideal situation. What I'm saying is that you don't have deficiencies, you have excesses.


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## hybridway2 (Nov 21, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> What were you growing in? What products were you using? RO or tap water?


CoCo, bubbled tap (7ph), DynaGrow


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## homebrewer (Nov 21, 2019)

hybridway2 said:


> CoCo, bubbled tap (7ph), DynaGrow


What _*products *_were you using? What EC were you feeding at?


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## hybridway2 (Nov 21, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> What _*products *_were you using? What EC were you feeding at?


Cyco-Pearl
Started at recommended which instead off 900 or so was 600. Dropped that down to decrease the ph drop, (did not much) then tried 1/2 silica (biotanicare) with the other half ph up. 
Dyno-Gro (not foliage)
Dyna-Bloom
Biotanicare silica SI
Mag-Pro 
I saw positive results in veg at first till the silica got the best of them. 
I'm sure there is a way to feed this stuff as you are getting results you're pleased with. 
I'd like to know? 
Rumor has it a guy with one grow under his belt made this stuff, is that true? And maybe why the chart is so off?


----------



## iShatterBladderz (Nov 21, 2019)

hybridway2 said:


> Cyco-Pearl
> Started at recommended which instead off 900 or so was 600. Dropped that down to decrease the ph drop, (did not much) then tried 1/2 silica (biotanicare) with the other half ph up.
> Dyno-Gro (not foliage)
> Dyna-Bloom
> ...


A guy with one grow under his belt made Dyna-Gro? is that what you’re asking?


----------



## mr. childs (Nov 21, 2019)

hybridway2 said:


> Cyco-Pearl
> Started at recommended which instead off 900 or so was 600. Dropped that down to decrease the ph drop, (did not much) then tried 1/2 silica (biotanicare) with the other half ph up.
> Dyno-Gro (not foliage)
> Dyna-Bloom
> ...


silica got the best of them? were they extra rigid to the point where they would no longer draw up nutrients ?


----------



## hybridway2 (Nov 21, 2019)

iShatterBladderz said:


> A guy with one grow under his belt made Dyna-Gro? is that what you’re asking?


Yes, that's what a rep told me. 


mr. childs said:


> silica got the best of them? were they extra rigid to the point where they would no longer draw up nutrients ?


Dying rubber leaves, rubber stems, sick plant. 
Nobody in their right mind feeds 4ml a gall of silica unless going Max strength once in a blue moon.


----------



## rkymtnman (Nov 21, 2019)

I'm glad you didn't have the pH issues i had with Mega Crap. most unstable nute i've ever tried. and i even had the company try to help me figure it out and they never could. and there were a handful of other members here that had the exact same pattern that i had with MC. 

do you have a preferred NPK for veg and bloom @homebrewer ? for hydro (RDWC) drain to waste

i've been follwoing Fatman with 3-1-2 for veg and 3-1-4 for bloom this run. so far so good. Foliage Pro for veg and then a mix of GH maxibloom and maxigrow for blooom.


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 21, 2019)

hybridway2 said:


> Cyco-Pearl
> Started at recommended which instead off 900 or so was 600. Dropped that down to decrease the ph drop, (did not much) then tried 1/2 silica (biotanicare) with the other half ph up.
> Dyno-Gro (not foliage)
> Dyna-Bloom
> ...


I asked for EC, you gave me ppm. What scale is your TDS meter on? Actually, don't worry about it. Look, feeding with Grow and ONLY grow from start to finish at their recommended maintenance dose will crush it (I think that's 1/2 tsp/gal). No offense but you need to make this as easy as possible. Don't worry about pH. Don't worry about all that other shit you were feeding with before. Ignore feeding schedules, forever. Learn to feed based on EC and more importantly, learn the basics of plant nutrition from non-canna websites.

Btw, overdoses of silica results in rigid, brittle leaves. 



> Rumor has it a guy with one grow under his belt made this stuff, is that true? And maybe why the chart is so off?


Did you miss my previous comment??? Once you understand that feeding schedules exist more to move product than any other reason, you can stop taking them so literally.


----------



## TintEastwood (Nov 21, 2019)

hybridway2 said:


> Yes, that's what a rep told me.
> 
> Dying rubber leaves, rubber stems, sick plant.
> Nobody in their right mind feeds 4ml a gall of silica unless going Max strength once in a blue moon.


Depends on the silica potency. DG Pro-tekt is about10ppm per ML. GH Armor Si around 26. Products vary greatly.
Based on the analysis breakdown, the total N PPM seems high, relative to the other primary elements.
Does DTW coco/plants make use of the ammoniacal, or is it just leaving with runoff?


----------



## swedsteven (Nov 21, 2019)

Sorry to ask .....

How many oz dry .

Sorry to ask again.


----------



## lukio (Nov 21, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> Where is my calcium deficiency?


well...like i said, i think this is the start. 

....lol



homebrewer said:


> how exactly do you think those older leaves all-of-a-sudden developed a 'calcium deficiency' late in flower?


if i had the answers i wouldnt be askin. Why do my symptoms match Cal def as stated on canna sites??



homebrewer said:


> Do you think the nutritional needs of these plants increase near harvest? They don't.


i know.



homebrewer said:


> If I were you, I'd quit feeding so high. 1.0 EC in containers


i should of been more accurate. i currently feed once a day between 0.8 and 1ec. im growing like 15 strains so it varies. PLUS i never had issues with V1 at those EC numbers...and i probs grew 100 plants with it...i still have a load so i might try the old lot again.

Anyhoo, i thought you might have the answers but it doesnt look like it. cheers anyway. cheers for the grow


----------



## dakindgrind (Nov 21, 2019)

TintEastwood said:


> Depends on the silica potency. DG Pro-tekt is about10ppm per ML. GH Armor Si around 26. Products vary greatly.
> Based on the analysis breakdown, the total N PPM seems high, relative to the other primary elements.
> Does DTW coco/plants make use of the ammoniacal, or is it just leaving with runoff?
> 
> View attachment 4424765


Been using Agsil16H for years, 560g to 1gal H2O. 
2ml-ish/gal of H2O every feed and every stage, even use it as a pH up when I whoopsy the amount of "prep and etch" pH down. 

Works out to about 50-100ppm in the mix and never had an issue, only strong solid stems that take whatever I give when super cropped.

Started out with DG Protekt but too expensive for watered down potassium silicate. Tried all the varieties of mono/silicic acid as well, ie OSA28, silicium, aptus fasilitor.


----------



## iShatterBladderz (Nov 21, 2019)

hybridway2 said:


> Yes, that's what a rep told me.


that may technically be true, that the founder has only grown cannabis once, I can’t say it isn’t without doubt but Dyna-Gro has been around for decades, and is definitely knowledgeable about cannabis. He’s done a few interviews, including one with the DGC that I really enjoyed.

i always view feeding charts as maximum values at best or a waste of ink more often.


----------



## hybridway2 (Nov 21, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> I asked for EC, you gave me ppm. What scale is your TDS meter on? Actually, don't worry about it. Look, feeding with Grow and ONLY grow from start to finish at their recommended maintenance dose will crush it (I think that's 1/2 tsp/gal). No offense but you need to make this as easy as possible. Don't worry about pH. Don't worry about all that other shit you were feeding with before. Ignore feeding schedules, forever. Learn to feed based on EC and more importantly, learn the basics of plant nutrition from non-canna websites.
> 
> Btw, overdoses of silica results in rigid, brittle leaves.
> 
> Did you miss my previous comment??? Once you understand that feeding schedules exist more to move product than any other reason, you can stop taking them so literally.


I do feed based mostly on EC/PPM usibg chart as a refference. Once you know your product then you know what that ppm/ec equates to to your plants. 
Ex: my 1200 ppm of TechNaFlora may be equal to your 800 ppm of DynaGro according to the plants. So going by someone's EC that's using different nutes isn't always that helpful. 
But i get your drift n had i had more time & patience i may have done fine. 
After reading the chart i was just so baffled by the buffoonery that it equaled out to be in my rez. 
Maybe using the Pro-Tech as is specified with lowered doses incorporated. 
Good point @TintEastwood .


----------



## hybridway2 (Nov 21, 2019)

dakindgrind said:


> Been using Agsil16H for years, 560g to 1gal H2O.
> 2ml-ish/gal of H2O every feed and every stage, even use it as a pH up when I whoopsy the amount of "prep and etch" pH down.
> 
> Works out to about 50-100ppm in the mix and never had an issue, only strong solid stems that take whatever I give when super cropped.
> ...


Aptus Facilitator is the shit. Not your basic silica.


----------



## dakindgrind (Nov 21, 2019)

hybridway2 said:


> Aptus Facilitator is the shit. Not your basic silica.











Silicic Acid


Aptus does seem to be the only company selling this retail in the US. agro-solutions has the same thing as facilitor, execpt it has a little copper and zinc added. They have a California office, but they only deal with commercial ag. Wouldnt even give me a distributors name. lol. Here...




www.thcfarmer.com





Actually it is, **basic silica** potassium silicate with a polyethanlene glycol stabilizer or the like. 

Also forgot where I read it, likely from an actual soil science/ agronomy article, that many of the silicic acids marketed to "growers" have added trace elements like arsenic, zinc, and manganese in order to trigger a SAR response in the plant to boost it's immune system.


----------



## dakindgrind (Nov 21, 2019)

hybridway2 said:


> I do feed based mostly on EC/PPM usibg chart as a refference. Once you know your product then you know what that ppm/ec equates to to your plants.
> Ex: my 1200 ppm of TechNaFlora may be equal to your 800 ppm of DynaGro according to the plants. So going by someone's EC that's using different nutes isn't always that helpful.
> But i get your drift n had i had more time & patience i may have done fine.
> After reading the chart i was just so baffled by the buffoonery that it equaled out to be in my rez.
> ...


EC is universal, your 1.0 EC is everyone else's 1.0 EC, though the formulas to get to 1.0 EC will vary.

PPM is in .5 or .7 conversion based on the origin of manufacture of your nutrients or TDS probe. 

This is why we focus on EC and not PPM as PPM is subjective.


----------



## hybridway2 (Nov 22, 2019)

dakindgrind said:


> EC is universal, your 1.0 EC is everyone else's 1.0 EC, though the formulas to get to 1.0 EC will vary.
> 
> PPM is in .5 or .7 conversion based on the origin of manufacture of your nutrients or TDS probe.
> 
> This is why we focus on EC and not PPM as PPM is subjective.


Thnx but, uh du. We know.
Hey @lukio 
What's going on man? 
Switching nutes, different lightning determining factors, ect...? 
Thought you were the Rasta Grow God bro.?


----------



## OneHitDone (Nov 22, 2019)

lukio said:


> cheers, but i disagree and they were nicer without it a couple grows before. one plant gave me the typical rust spots...
> 
> im in coco, feeding 1ec in flower with RO water, which by the way, i HAVE to add mag to if i dont want a deficiency. everything fine until late flower.
> 
> ...


Are the rust spots you are talking about like the plant on the right in this pic?


----------



## lukio (Nov 22, 2019)

@OneHitDone you're still on my ignore list, which doesn't seem to work?! but seems as youre currently not being an ignorant shill for a scam led company, i'll answer your question. Yes, one of them was heading that way.

@hybridway2 same as above except i removed you from my ignore list in the hope that you'd actually talk food profiles/ppm' instead of blaming your lights...i see youre kinda gettin there....congrats, thats progress.


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 22, 2019)

lukio said:


> well...like i said, i think this is the start.
> View attachment 4424791
> ....lol


A true 'deficiency' would've shown up after a week of using Mega Crop on NEW growth, not 9 weeks later on a leaf that's 5 weeks old. How do you not understand that??? Did you read that link that I posted?

Again, DynaGro supplies 2% calcium which is 1/3 of what MC supplies, where is my 'calcium deficiency' on those plants?




> if i had the answers i wouldnt be askin. Why do my symptoms match Cal def as stated on canna sites??


Because canna sites are literally the worst place for horticultural knowledge. No offense but they're usually filled with a bunch of amateurs thinking every problem in their garden is either related to cal/mag or pH. It's laughable actually. Or in your case, thinking you have an issue when things look pretty damn good. Lower your feeding levels and call it a day.


----------



## hybridway2 (Nov 22, 2019)

lukio said:


> @OneHitDone you're still on my ignore list, which doesn't seem to work?! but seems as youre currently not being an ignorant shill for a scam led company, i'll answer your question. Yes, one of them was heading that way.
> 
> @hybridway2 same as above except i removed you from my ignore list in the hope that you'd actually talk food profiles/ppm' instead of blaming your lights...i see youre kinda gettin there....congrats, thats progress.


Having either of us on an ignore list do to your own hypocrisy issues is just whack. 
Nobody pushed those shitty lights dude. Let that go. 
I do wanna talk food. But i dont not wanna be told I'm full of shit when I'm clearly not. 
Your plant pic appears to be nute burn before cal defficency. But hey. What do i know.


----------



## lukio (Nov 22, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> A true 'deficiency' would've shown up after a week of using Mega Crop on NEW growth, not 9 weeks later on a leaf that's 5 weeks old. How do you not understand that??? Did you read that link that I posted?


lol okay then, i didnt have a deficiency. im seeing shit, those plants were healthy af.

yeah i read it.

im not talking about the newbs.

good day, sir.


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 22, 2019)

lukio said:


> *lol okay then, i didnt have a deficiency. im seeing shit*, those plants were healthy af.
> 
> yeah i read it.
> 
> ...


One thing is for sure, you have no idea what you're seeing. Just last month you thought it was a potassium deficiency : https://www.rollitup.org/t/lights-camera-procrastination.997504/page-2

I'd love to know how it's possible that you're deficient in potassium with the mammoth amounts already supplied by MegaCrop? Have you ruled out an iron deficiency? What about a manganese deficiency? lol 

What you're likely seeing is operator error in the form of overfeeding. If you don't think daily doses of 0.8 - 1.0 EC is a lot of food then you're insane.


----------



## lukio (Nov 22, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> One thing is for sure, you have no idea what you're seeing. Just last month you thought it was a potassium deficiency : https://www.rollitup.org/t/lights-camera-procrastination.997504/page-2
> 
> I'd love to know how it's possible that you're deficient in potassium with the mammoth amounts already supplied by MegaCrop? Have you ruled out an iron deficiency? What about a manganese deficiency? lol
> 
> What you're likely seeing is operator error in the form of overfeeding. If you don't think daily doses of 0.8 - 1.0 EC is a lot of food then you're insane.


lol! it does look like potassium def though.



i was asking people in my diary what they thought, whats wrong with that? seems a good place to ask.

I've grown in coco for 6 years at those numbers without ANY problems ever. You'll notice breeders like Vader on Youtube also feed those EC ranges.

When i lower my EC i get pale plants. MC change their cal and i get issues...

Why dont you try growing under led in coco before spouting bollocks. i knew you didnt know when ya dropped the snarky calmag "joke" instead of offering advice.

Carry on ignoring the issues you documented though...

You take it easy now, bruh


----------



## hybridway2 (Nov 22, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> One thing is for sure, you have no idea what you're seeing. Just last month you thought it was a potassium deficiency : https://www.rollitup.org/t/lights-camera-procrastination.997504/page-2
> 
> I'd love to know how it's possible that you're deficient in potassium with the mammoth amounts already supplied by MegaCrop? Have you ruled out an iron deficiency? What about a manganese deficiency? lol
> 
> What you're likely seeing is operator error in the form of overfeeding. If you don't think daily doses of 0.8 - 1.0 EC is a lot of food then you're insane.


He's in Denial is all. Remember he said "different lighting" when given a potential solution? That different lighting requires different feed then an HPS/MH/T-5 Grower. He's right there but he'll deny its a problem for oh say, 70% of led growers. Instead, its Grower Error. Which it is only because the answers are mostly Bro-Science that rarely equates to much help. It is hatd for many of those using plain white led in CoCo & sometimes other lightly air-rated media. 
I call it "LedDefficiency" until there's some better understanding on the topic. 
At first Lukio had x1 answer & x1 answer only = Jacks 3-2-1. 
Guess that's out the window for now. 
Back to big money Canna A+B hu?


----------



## hybridway2 (Nov 22, 2019)

lukio said:


> lol! it does look like potassium def though.
> 
> View attachment 4425044View attachment 4425045
> 
> ...


And what's that called now?
Listening to you talk to HB is like listening to a reel of me talking to everyone else.


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 22, 2019)

lukio said:


> lol! it does look like potassium def though.
> 
> View attachment 4425044View attachment 4425045
> 
> ...


Yep, you're right. It's your super special combination of lights, media, and food, that makes you and your garden a special little snowflake. And your plants are so special that even when given bountiful amounts of the essential elements, they still somehow show deficiencies.


----------



## OneHitDone (Nov 22, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> One thing is for sure, you have no idea what you're seeing. Just last month you thought it was a potassium deficiency : https://www.rollitup.org/t/lights-camera-procrastination.997504/page-2
> 
> I'd love to know how it's possible that you're deficient in potassium with the mammoth amounts already supplied by MegaCrop? Have you ruled out an iron deficiency? What about a manganese deficiency? lol
> 
> What you're likely seeing is operator error in the form of overfeeding. If you don't think daily doses of 0.8 - 1.0 EC is a lot of food then you're insane.


@lukio your answer lies in one or all 3 of the elements homebrewer has listed here and the ratio's of each and how they interplay with each other in solution as far as chemistry.
I have a strong hunch exactly what the issue is but will bite my tongue in case your one of those "All Nutrients are the Same" type of guys


----------



## TintEastwood (Nov 22, 2019)

Very common.


----------



## lukio (Nov 22, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> they still somehow show deficiencies.


your plants are showing early signs of the same thing, dude. jheeze.

This is going nowhere. there are clearly more experienced, wiser minds i could pick. 

Sub to my diary and watch me nail another grow in those EC ranges...haha!


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 22, 2019)

lukio said:


> your plants are showing early signs of the same thing, dude. jheeze.


The same 'early signs' of a 'deficiency' _at_ harvest, after they've been fed the same food at the same EC for the previous 9 weeks? lol 



> This is going nowhere. there are clearly more experienced, wiser minds i could pick.


What you're really looking for is someone that'll agree that it's the plant food's fault and not yours. 



> Sub to my diary and watch me nail another grow in those EC ranges...haha!


No one is saying that you're not doing a good job. What _I'm_ saying is that you're an idiot for cherry-picking single leaves thinking there is some sort of systemic issue caused by a nutrient imbalance in the food.


----------



## Growerpl (Nov 30, 2019)

Hi, what is the final result


----------



## ghbond (Dec 1, 2019)

I've been growing for 9 years. I started with GH, then tried some Heavy 16 and liked the results, but before I could switch over, I got put on an out-of-town work assignment, and only get to see my girls every other weekend, so I wasn't about to deal with the Heavy 16 soup in my dwc when I only do maintenance every 14 days. So I got garbage cans, float valves and timers, and set up clean-water reservoirs to replace used water. In a system of about 15 gal that feeds 4 plants/buckets, I use 150 ml micro, 300 ml bloom, 60 ml Liquid Koolbloom, and 40 ml calmag. I use a little less at the beginning of veg hydro (my early veg is in dirt), and a little less at the end of flower, also switching to 20g of the powder Koolbloom and eliminate cal/mag at the end of flower. I never measure any EC or pH unless I think I made a mistake, then I'll check EC. I still grow what people tell me is some of the best they've ever seen, but part of that is my trimming. Now the laws are changing and I'm starting to do research again, and I found the Dyna Gro vs. AN thread, and now this one. I want to switch to DG, but obviously I can't watch and react to my plants needs very often, so I want to follow the exact receipe for hydro in terms of grow/bloom, additives, and EC that Homebrewer uses. From reading until my eyes got foggy, I gather it is about 1-1.2 EC max, starting bloom at about 50/50 ratio and then leaning out to 1:4 grow/bloom, then eliminating bloom and adding Floralicious additive at the end, with no flush. Is that about right?


----------



## homebrewer (Dec 1, 2019)

Growerpl said:


> Hi, what is the final result


I'll be doing a final write up sooner than later. I've been busy.


----------



## homebrewer (Dec 1, 2019)

ghbond said:


> I've been growing for 9 years. I started with GH, then tried some Heavy 16 and liked the results, but before I could switch over, I got put on an out-of-town work assignment, and only get to see my girls every other weekend, so I wasn't about to deal with the Heavy 16 soup in my dwc when I only do maintenance every 14 days. So I got garbage cans, float valves and timers, and set up clean-water reservoirs to replace used water. In a system of about 15 gal that feeds 4 plants/buckets, I use 150 ml micro, 300 ml bloom, 60 ml Liquid Koolbloom, and 40 ml calmag. I use a little less at the beginning of veg hydro (my early veg is in dirt), and a little less at the end of flower, also switching to 20g of the powder Koolbloom and eliminate cal/mag at the end of flower. I never measure any EC or pH unless I think I made a mistake, then I'll check EC. I still grow what people tell me is some of the best they've ever seen, but part of that is my trimming. Now the laws are changing and I'm starting to do research again, and I found the Dyna Gro vs. AN thread, and now this one. I want to switch to DG, but obviously I can't watch and react to my plants needs very often, so I want to follow the exact receipe for hydro in terms of grow/bloom, additives, and EC that Homebrewer uses. From reading until my eyes got foggy, I gather it is about 1-1.2 EC max, starting bloom at about 50/50 ratio and then leaning out to 1:4 grow/bloom, then eliminating bloom and adding Floralicious additive at the end, with no flush. Is that about right?


That's basically what I do except I use foliage pro instead of Grow. These days I start out with roughly a 1:4 FP/Bloom and move to 100% bloom after the stretch. If the plants need more N then I'll add a touch of FP to the mix. I also use floralicious+ throughout. I've also messed with adding potassium sulfate to my mix and some potassium silicate with good results.


----------



## iShatterBladderz (Dec 1, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> That's basically what I do except I use foliage pro instead of Grow. These days I start out with roughly a 1:4 FP/Bloom and move to 100% bloom after the stretch. If the plants need more N then I'll add a touch of FP to the mix. I also use floralicious+ throughout. I've also messed with adding potassium sulfate to my mix and some potassium silicate with good results.


Do you gradually go from just FP to the 1:4 ratio after flipping?


----------



## Indoorpro (Dec 1, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> That's basically what I do except I use foliage pro instead of Grow. These days I start out with roughly a 1:4 FP/Bloom and move to 100% bloom after the stretch. If the plants need more N then I'll add a touch of FP to the mix. I also use floralicious+ throughout. I've also messed with adding potassium sulfate to my mix and some potassium silicate with good results.


What you use in terms of bacteria control? Meaning like uc roots so on!


----------



## ghbond (Dec 1, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> That's basically what I do except I use foliage pro instead of Grow. These days I start out with roughly a 1:4 FP/Bloom and move to 100% bloom after the stretch. If the plants need more N then I'll add a touch of FP to the mix. I also use floralicious+ throughout. I've also messed with adding potassium sulfate to my mix and some potassium silicate with good results.


Thanks. I have a group just 2 weeks into the cycle,and found a local hydro store with the nutes in-stock, so next weekend I'll flip them and I'll let you know how it turns out. Michigan Magic is the strain (clone-only,) aka Roadrunner, but not the autoflower strain that you can buy seeds for.


----------



## homebrewer (Dec 1, 2019)

Indoorpro said:


> What you use in terms of bacteria control? Meaning like uc roots so on!


Nothing. I personally don't have an issue with blooms or growths in my reservoirs.


----------



## Keesje (Dec 1, 2019)

@homebrewer 
If you had to pick one brand that is widely available, which brand would you pick for Ebb & Flow?
You tested so much in all these years.


----------



## Indoorpro (Dec 1, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> Nothing. I personally don't have an issue with blooms or growths in my reservoirs.


No Orca/ Great White? really?


----------



## homebrewer (Dec 1, 2019)

Keesje said:


> If you had to pick one brand that is widely available, which brand would you pick for Ebb & Flow?
> You tested so much in all these years.


Brand of what?



Indoorpro said:


> No Orca/ Great White? really?


I use GW when putting cuts into rockwool but nothing goes in my res. If someone is having issues with growth in their res then bennies can be a great way to control them.


----------



## Keesje (Dec 2, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> Brand of what?


Nutrients


----------



## GrowRijt (Dec 2, 2019)

Keesje said:


> Nutrients


I can say he probably would recc’ dynagro. To be more specific dynagro foliage pro.

if you are fairly new to growing, or just like simplicity choose pro mix soil and foliage pro start to finish. One nutrient end to end. Done. I have personally followed many of these tests and tested myself along the way. I am fairly cost conscious and don’t like to work to hard. I recently added DG bloom and green planet bud explosion at certain intervals for fun just to tweak my recipe.


----------



## Wastei (Dec 2, 2019)

Keesje said:


> Nutrients


Doesn't really matter what you use. They all contain the same stuff at different ratios. I'm getting tired of everyone blaming their complete plant food instead of themselves. Learn what different NPK ratios do instead and how they affect growth pattern. Concentration, price+VAT and shipping is what I go by when ordering nutrients.

Believe it or not every nutrient brand use the same stuff in their formula. If you want a pH stable solution you need to use a potassium silicate product to get optimal cation exchange. I order "water glass" locally which contains 30% potassium silicate for the cheaps.


----------



## homebrewer (Dec 2, 2019)

Keesje said:


> Nutrients


I like DynaGro's Foliage pro and bloom because they're very concentrated and don't need supplementation. Those two bottles give me the versatility and ease of use that I want for peat and hydro. As others have stated though, brands don't matter. What really matters is the ratio and amounts of the elements contained within the bottles. As Uncle Ben would say, you can get unbelievable results from plant foods sold at WalMart as long as you know what to buy and how to use it. 

As I mentioned though, I like DynaGro. They make complete one-part foods that are definitely on the cheaper end of the spectrum. You can't beat their ease of use and when used properly they're one of _the_ best performing foods on the market. I'll suggest them to new growers because they're complete. If they're seeing plant issues they can rule out the food as the culprit. I'd also recommend DG to advanced growers too. In all fairness, and the results are coming soon, MegaCrop crushed it this round which just goes to show there are many good options out there.

Here's a quick story to reiterate the fact that brands don't matter: About 6 months ago I ran out of DynaGro bloom as I was just starting a flowering cycle in my hydro trays. Local stores don't carry DynaGro which means ordering bottles would have delayed flowering by a week. So I looked at what I had sitting around, mentally adding up and checking off the elements supplied in the different products that I had on the shelf. I wound up using GenHydro's Micro (5-0-1) for nitrogen and most of the micro nutrients, DG's Magpro (2-15-4) for the phosphorous and magnesium, and some dry potassium sulfate for exactly those two elements. And when I ran out of DG's Magpro at week 6 I then switched to Botanicare's Hydroplex (0-10-6). All added up and tweaked based on concentrations, I had all the essentials needed for healthy growth. That round was flawless, as expected, because the plants were getting all the essentials in the ratios that I know work.


----------



## Nizza (Dec 2, 2019)

I like dyna gro too homebrewer. Someday when i get to hydro I bet ill grab a bottle of the foliage pro

Alot of people have leaf issues I get it too sometimes and what it comes down to is plant moisture stress

When you underwater, salinity in the grow medium increases. This can cause stress and leaf damage. Over-watering decreases the salinity and can be bad, but is hard to do once things are growing fast.

If you underwater, then overwater, your roots that died off are now very moist possibly causing a bit of root rot . Some people don't water their pots evenly and can experience this, and it shows up on your leaves.

It is hard to balance watering sometimes when the seasons change, and sometimes it is simply because a fan is blowing too much air on the pots. Alot of growers use plastic buckets with only holes in the bottoms to avoid fans from drying out the mediums

Hope this helps some people get back to the basics.. I have tried alot of nutrients and it is hard to get deficiencies unless the pH is swinging from over/under watering nd locking things out or if the roots are being burnt from underwatering


----------



## swedsteven (Dec 2, 2019)

Growerpl said:


> Hi, what is the final result





homebrewer said:


> MegaCrop crushed it this round which just goes to show there are many good options out there.


Drum is beating louder


----------



## Keesje (Dec 3, 2019)

Nizza said:


> When you underwater, salinity in the grow medium increases. This can cause stress and leaf damage. Over-watering decreases the salinity and can be bad, but is hard to do once things are growing fast.
> 
> If you underwater, then overwater, your roots that died off are now very moist possibly causing a bit of root rot . Some people don't water their pots evenly and can experience this, and it shows up on your leaves.


That is one of the advantages of hydro-system like DWC, E&F, waterfalls... it is much harder to underwater or overwater.
What people call overwatering is almost always 'lack of oxygen for the roots".
Underwatering is 'lack of water for the roots'.


----------



## Keesje (Dec 8, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> In all fairness, and the results are coming soon, MegaCrop crushed it this round which just goes to show there are many good options out there.


Come on! Don't keep us waiting!


----------



## BDGrows (Dec 15, 2019)

Any updates @homebrewer?


----------



## OneHitDone (Dec 16, 2019)

ghbond said:


> I've been growing for 9 years. I started with GH, then tried some Heavy 16 and liked the results, but before I could switch over, I got put on an out-of-town work assignment, and only get to see my girls every other weekend, so I wasn't about to deal with the Heavy 16 soup in my dwc when I only do maintenance every 14 days. So I got garbage cans, float valves and timers, and set up clean-water reservoirs to replace used water. In a system of about 15 gal that feeds 4 plants/buckets, I use 150 ml micro, 300 ml bloom, 60 ml Liquid Koolbloom, and 40 ml calmag. I use a little less at the beginning of veg hydro (my early veg is in dirt), and a little less at the end of flower, also switching to 20g of the powder Koolbloom and eliminate cal/mag at the end of flower. I never measure any EC or pH unless I think I made a mistake, then I'll check EC. I still grow what people tell me is some of the best they've ever seen, but part of that is my trimming. Now the laws are changing and I'm starting to do research again, and I found the Dyna Gro vs. AN thread, and now this one. I want to switch to DG, but obviously I can't watch and react to my plants needs very often, so I want to follow the exact receipe for hydro in terms of grow/bloom, additives, and EC that Homebrewer uses. From reading until my eyes got foggy, I gather it is about 1-1.2 EC max, starting bloom at about 50/50 ratio and then leaning out to 1:4 grow/bloom, then eliminating bloom and adding Floralicious additive at the end, with no flush. Is that about right?


If your on a system your getting solid repeatable results and are comfortable with I wouldn't change a thing


----------



## ghbond (Dec 16, 2019)

Laws are changing in Michigan, so it's time to change from casual to commercial. To survive commercial you need to have a cost advantage, meaning faster/better/cheaper. I'm now close to completing a one-week masters course in aeroponics. The technogy is daunting, but the control, speed, efficiency, and environmental friendliness is outstanding. I'm certain that I will formulate my own nutrients, but for now Dyna Gro will do. Of course, the final product has to satisfy my existing fanatics who have become used to quality beyond the level available at dispo's. Waiting patiently on HB to drop his results here, because I've got a very interesting on-topic post already written.


----------



## Nizza (Dec 16, 2019)

be sure if going the commercial route and aeroponics you have some sort of back up idea in case you lose power!


----------



## Herb & Suds (Dec 16, 2019)

Nizza said:


> be sure if going the commercial route and aeroponics you have some sort of back up idea in case you lose power!


Generator for pumps 
Lights aren't needed up to 3 days or so


----------



## kinnyg1234 (Dec 16, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> I like DynaGro's Foliage pro and bloom because they're very concentrated and don't need supplementation. Those two bottles give me the versatility and ease of use that I want for peat and hydro. As others have stated though, brands don't matter. What really matters is the ratio and amounts of the elements contained within the bottles. As Uncle Ben would say, you can get unbelievable results from plant foods sold at WalMart as long as you know what to buy and how to use it.
> 
> As I mentioned though, I like DynaGro. They make complete one-part foods that are definitely on the cheaper end of the spectrum. You can't beat their ease of use and when used properly they're one of _the_ best performing foods on the market. I'll suggest them to new growers because they're complete. If they're seeing plant issues they can rule out the food as the culprit. I'd also recommend DG to advanced growers too. In all fairness, and the results are coming soon, MegaCrop crushed it this round which just goes to show there are many good options out there.
> 
> Here's a quick story to reiterate the fact that brands don't matter: About 6 months ago I ran out of DynaGro bloom as I was just starting a flowering cycle in my hydro trays. Local stores don't carry DynaGro which means ordering bottles would have delayed flowering by a week. So I looked at what I had sitting around, mentally adding up and checking off the elements supplied in the different products that I had on the shelf. I wound up using GenHydro's Micro (5-0-1) for nitrogen and most of the micro nutrients, DG's Magpro (2-15-4) for the phosphorous and magnesium, and some dry potassium sulfate for exactly those two elements. And when I ran out of DG's Magpro at week 6 I then switched to Botanicare's Hydroplex (0-10-6). All added up and tweaked based on concentrations, I had all the essentials needed for healthy growth. That round was flawless, as expected, because the plants were getting all the essentials in the ratios that I know work.



Hey Dude,

I have read your posts for a very long time and really enjoy them, even if I don't always agree I really appreciate you taking the time to put your views out there.

As a longtime fan of Greenleaf I thought I might give you my 2 cents.

I get the idea of wanting to keep it simple, just base. -Did that for my first round few rounds back in 04 (gh -duh), Excellent results... However noticed HUGE Benefits when I added some additives, back then big bud, seaweed and bennies.

Years go by was using advanced for sake of simplicity.. ph perfect....

Started replacing Advanced with GL Additives... WAY Cheaper and got better results *my experience.

When Mega came out I was so lazy with the ph perfect... but then I did try it...

What I actually like most about it is not only the pricepoint and all included... 

-But actually the fact that it has NO Edta or other somewhat concerning chelates (EDDTA, DPTA etc)... that do end up in the plant.

Mega has Amino Chelates, which from what I understand are actually organic compliant, even though Mega is not.

So Save money, Good Bang for Buck and CLEANER... That's my view..

I would be surprised if you didn't find higher quality simply because of all the extras in there.. Seaweed, Chitosan, Silica, Enzyme... 

BTW I add a TON of shit, and I enjoy spending money on this even though I could get by with WAY less haha.. Biomarine, KoolBloom (liquid), RedLine (GL Version of Overdrive), FL Plus, Sweet Candy (GL Version of Bud Candy -Way better ingrediants), Carboload, OGBiowar Root and Nute Packs... other shit! 

Fun for me but I get why many like to keep it simple.

-Question, if Foliage works well for you in Flower and Veg, why do Dyna make the other products? Just wondering.

Cheers! K


----------



## homebrewer (Dec 16, 2019)

The results should be posted in a couple of days. The flowers are dried, cured, and the final numbers are in....


----------



## Wastei (Dec 17, 2019)

kinnyg1234 said:


> -Question, if Foliage works well for you in Flower and Veg, why do Dyna make the other products? Just wondering.


This has been answered a lot of times. It's a result of marketing and different type of growing. From my experience you want to be able to lower nitrogen levels in late flower in hydro. In containers FP alone absolutely kills it! Pro-tekt is used to get stable pH and higher resistance to pm, pests and environmental stress.

People say otherwise but they have probably not run same cuttings in a side by side situation with different formulas.


----------



## kinnyg1234 (Dec 18, 2019)

Wastei said:


> This has been answered a lot of times. It's a result of marketing and different type of growing. From my experience you want to be able to lower nitrogen levels in late flower in hydro. In containers FP alone absolutely kills it! Pro-tekt is used to get stable pH and higher resistance to pm, pests and environmental stress.
> 
> People say otherwise but they have probably not run same cuttings in a side by side situation with different formulas.


Ok Thanks


----------



## tob5461 (Dec 20, 2019)

Hey homebrewer what happened to your pics in the dynagro AN comparison thread. The pics are great for the comparison. I hate when im looking for information on these forums and almost all the pics in older threads are missing. I have run megacrop and GH and Botainacare had decent results but thinking about switching to dynagro for the completeness of the formula.


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## BleedsGreen (Dec 21, 2019)

Ran MC for a little over a year, it was good. My last 2 rails I went back to botainacare and the leaf sugar is noticeably increased and the taste profiles are stronger. That said I just used MC no additives, I am sure would have added to the overall output. With botainacare I am using many of their products, (not as simple as MC and much more costly). Since I grow only for me and the wife I think I will stick with botainacare for now.


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## kinnyg1234 (Dec 21, 2019)

BleedsGreen said:


> Ran MC for a little over a year, it was good. My last 2 rails I went back to botainacare and the leaf sugar is noticeably increased and the taste profiles are stronger. That said I just used MC no additives, I am sure would have added to the overall output. With botainacare I am using many of their products, (not as simple as MC and much more costly). Since I grow only for me and the wife I think I will stick with botainacare for now.


You could try mega with all the additives you are using with Botanicare. Still probably cheaper and maybe more apples to apples. There is no humic or fulvic in mega for example.


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## swedsteven (Dec 24, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> The results should be posted in a couple of days. The flowers are dried, cured, and the final numbers are in....


 cant give us are gift for christmas


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## homebrewer (Dec 24, 2019)

swedsteven said:


> cant give us are gift for christmas


My write up is done, I just need to take some photos. If I'm being honest, I'm slammed right now and this is at the bottom of my list of things to do. It's the holidays. It just is what it is.


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## homebrewer (Jan 6, 2020)

Thank you for your patience! Life has been non-stop for a while now but I finally made some time for the review.

*Mega Crop vs Dyna Gro final write-up.....*

As I mentioned in the first post of this thread, I was going to be looking at different aspects of Mega Crop and comparing it to the food that I use regularly, which is DynaGro. I’ve already gone over ease of use, versatility, cost, pH stability, plant performance, plant health, etc., so my plan here is to just wrap this up with some closing thoughts.

The final yield for these plants was 805 grams (roughly 28.4 ounces) which is actually a personal best by 1 gram. My previous personal best occurred during my previous run with DynaGro just a couple months before this comparison grow. My goal in regards to yield coming into this comparison was 19-20oz because that’s been my average for years now in this corner tray with a 600 HPS. The thing about these last two runs, which have been personal bests, is that they’ve been powered by a brand new ballast. My previous ballast was a 600w Quantum and while that piece of sh*t did last a couple of years, it popped during the first week of my previous run with DynaGro and it took out a bulb with it. So I went to my local hydro store and promptly replaced the bulb and bought a new 600w single-ended Sun System 1. So the problem with these yield numbers is that it seems like this new ballast is vastly superior to my old Quantum and my old baseline for average yields is now antiquated. Before I can draw any final conclusions I’ll need to do another run with DG just to get an idea of what an ‘average’ yield might be. Regardless of the outcome of those future grows, 1.34 grams/watt from a static overhead system in a 3’x4’ space is pretty damn good. Hats off to Mega Crop.

Also something to consider, these MegaCrop plants were quite a bit larger than the DG plants that were pictured in this thread and they were also getting help from a neighboring light as seen below. How much of a difference did the extra height and light make? Probably not more than 15-20% but that’s maybe impossible to determine. Regardless, MC certainly proved to be a very capable plant food.

As I mentioned a number of times, I really didn’t like working with MC. It was a little dusty, dirty, and time consuming to use. On the flipside it was the cheapest food that I’ve ever tested in hydro but it really wasn’t that much cheaper than what I already use. We’re talking at most a $5 savings per two-month cycle in a 20+ gallon reservoir (basically $12 vs DynaGro’s $16.50). Does this savings add up on a larger scale? Certainly. Does the extra time required also scale up? Of course!. Time is my most precious commodity so personally I’d gladly pay a bit more for the sake of ease and efficiency. The bottom line is this: MC could save you $5 per light per harvest and that is a savings that one might actually notice. That's also a savings over one of the most inexpensive liquid foods on the market; DynaGro. So when comparing MC to other liquid foods the cost savings may be even more noticeable. 

Speaking of time and efficiency, MC’s higher nitrogen content (as compared to DG’s bloom) did grow leafier, branchier plants which required much more maintenance than I’m used to. Had I not known what to expect in terms of the growth I probably would have yielded a ton of airy, wispy flowers. These plants also required a bit more trimming because they were a little more leafy – maybe 10-20% more leaf? I’ve also noticed that the overall density of the flowers is lower than normal but by no means is the overall density low. The flowers are a tad more fox-tailed that normal - essentially I think the extra N caused the seed bracts to stack more than I'm used to. For the record, I’m a sativa guy, I don’t really care about density. However, if a strain is supposed to produce flowers on the dense side of the spectrum then I don't think the plant food should alter that. In regards to the extra leaf and slightly lower density, I do think that these two ‘issues’ could easily be rectified by the addition of a bloom booster such as MKP. It’s not necessarily the higher P and K that would increase density but the diluted nitrogen content. Because MC supplies more calcium and magnesium than needed, I actually think MC formulated this food to be used with a booster.

As far as the actual quality of the product goes, it’s essentially indistinguishable from other nutrient brands. Aroma and resin production are possibly down a bit on this MC run but I’m sure the difference could be mitigated had I been using the same supplements as I do when running DynaGro. I actually did hear an unsolicited comment about how this round of Casey was really frosty so take that for what it’s worth.

So other than my complaints about the time involved (canopy maintenance, added trim time, weighing, mixing, and dissolving) and the little dusty messes MC makes, it’s a pretty solid performer and it doesn’t break the bank! Well done, Mega Crop.


MegaCrop tray growing into a neighboring light....



Dried flowers under natural lighting (Mega Crop)...



More Mega Crop...



DynaGro Flower....


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## swedsteven (Jan 6, 2020)

homebrewer said:


> Thank you for your patience! It's been non-stop for a while now but alas....
> 
> *Mega Crop vs Dyna Gro final write-up.....*
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for the honest review.

Both off these product are the best fertelizer in my book for wath we are doing !

Nice buds as always ...


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## FlakeyFoont (Jan 6, 2020)

Thanks for that @homebrewer... and nicely grown!


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## Wastei (Jan 6, 2020)

Thank you for this. Always very honest and informative. I've been reading all your journals since the AN vs Dyna Gro and Dumpster days! Congrats on the yield!


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## onegreenthumb (Jan 6, 2020)

Good job bring the information to the site I commend you....that is a lot of extra work, thank you


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## ghbond (Jan 7, 2020)

I've been excited to share this for weeks now, and it seems like ancient history since I'm buried in research on aeroponics now. 
While researching nutrients, I came across an article while researching the effects of different nutrient components on EC by a tiny company in Australia.

I was so impressed with the technical details that I found on their site. You could spend days reading all the technical information they have.









Hydroponics | Manic Botanix. Pure Science


Manic Botanix. Hydroponics. Pure Science. The cyber home of Glow since 2008.




medteknutrients.com.au





I would go 6 down under "Nutrient Science" and read "Beyond the Hype..." first.

They have spent a lot of money researching other companies' formulations, and doing their own analysis of what works best for cannabis, specifically for GROWING IN COCOA COIR. I guess that means less phosphorus and more calcium. 

Nowhere on their site could I find the NPK of their Part A and Part B. After trying some retailers' sites in their limited distribution in Australia, I finally found a retailer that had the NPK on their site. The ratios seemed familiar, and guess what!!!

Med-Tek (Australia Only) 
5 0 6 bloom a
0 3 2 bloom b
5 3 8 Total

Which lead me to notice:

Med-Tek (x2) 10 6 16 
Mega Crop 9 6 17 

So if you're a Cocoa grower, Mega Crop may well be the perfect stuff for you! As for me, I will stick with Dyna Gro for now, because its simplicity suits my current needs.

If your read my earlier post, you're aware I switched from GH to Dyna Grow based on the information provided by HB. So far the result looks good, and after two weeks unattended, the pH was still in range when I returned.


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## horribleherk (Jan 9, 2020)

The time & effort you put into this is appreciated as in all your comparisons there is a ton of useful stuff in here even if you didn't use either nutrient any way thank you for taking the time to do this


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## Nizza (Jan 9, 2020)

Thank you HB . Glad you are still here and this comparison is amazing , I really appreciate all the time you put into sharing your info on all of your experience!!


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## kinnyg1234 (Jan 14, 2020)

Great Report.

I wonder if you think the MC vs Dyna with no additives.. which you think would taste better, bigger yield etc. for the bare bones gardeners out there.

You were right on with the labeling being a little fucked. I use WAY more than it says to on the bag.

Just a tip with the MC in my experience... to save someone out there the issue I was having...

Because no edta etc.. different kind of food.. not easy to burn plants - especially without booster but even with.

If you see 'burning' on lower leaves, you are Underfeeding. I average about 15 'ml' of powder for 8 liters of water in flower (coco).. pretty sure that is about 1/3 more than it says to.. and I do go higher. -Haven't looked for a while.

Thanks again for the effort.


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## Tenthfloor (Feb 1, 2020)

Hey HB, great thread yet again! I’ve read through a few of your comparison grows and you seem to know a ton about nutrients. I’m wondering what your opinion is on sulfur and it’s positive effects on the finished product. I’ve used maxi for a couple of years now and when I finished my first run using only maxibloom STF I was impressed by the quality. I heard a podcast around the same time raving about the positive effects of sulfur on aroma and taste. Maxi has 4%. Ever since then I’ve wondered about its importance. I notice MC has half that and dyna generally has even less (I think like 1.5 if using FP and MagPro). Do you think more would be beneficial or even usable? Or is it maybe more important that it’s balanced properly with other elements?


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## jzs147 (Feb 2, 2020)

Can ya use megacrop in recirclating systems?


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## homebrewer (Feb 2, 2020)

Tenthfloor said:


> Hey HB, great thread yet again! I’ve read through a few of your comparison grows and you seem to know a ton about nutrients. I’m wondering what your opinion is on sulfur and it’s positive effects on the finished product. I’ve used maxi for a couple of years now and when I finished my first run using only maxibloom STF I was impressed by the quality. I heard a podcast around the same time raving about the positive effects of sulfur on aroma and taste. Maxi has 4%. Ever since then I’ve wondered about its importance. I notice MC has half that and dyna generally has even less (I think like 1.5 if using FP and MagPro). Do you think more would be beneficial or even usable? Or is it maybe more important that it’s balanced properly with other elements?


I noticed some years ago that a lot of 'sweeteners' and products claiming to increase resin contained sulfur. So naturally I increased the use of these products (and even tested the addition of potassium sulfate) and didn't see a noticeable difference. So to me it seemed that supplying enough is good and supplying more had no additional benefit. Also, I noticed that these products worked MUCH better in hydro than in peat. In fact, I wouldn't even bother trying to add more sulfur in peat. I do, however, like an organic-ish additive in peat and in hydro, something with sea kelp/humics/fulvics seems to benefit aroma and flavor to a degree.


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## homebrewer (Feb 2, 2020)

jzs147 said:


> Can ya use megacrop in recirclating systems?


 In my opinion, MC is a little dirty for hydro. It clearly works but it coats all surfaces below your waterline with a film of something. It's not algae; it's almost like a particulate or dust? I posted a pic earlier in the thread.


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## iShatterBladderz (Feb 4, 2020)

homebrewer said:


> Thank you for your patience! Life has been non-stop for a while now but I finally made some time for the review.
> 
> *Mega Crop vs Dyna Gro final write-up.....*
> 
> ...


I’m still running dynagro in the tent that I had talked to you about, but ive been running megacrop in my bigger one. I’m glad I read this, because I just flipped into flower, and around week 3 i plan on lowering the MC and replacing 1-2g of it with their new formulation of Sweet Candy (0-17-28 ) which not only is now a PK booster, but also has humid & fulvic acids, which I think I read somewhere that you like to use additives with humid & fulvic for increased aroma & flavor. I also have their regular PK booster (bud explosion) on hand, just in case I’m not happy with the new Sweet Candy. Haven’t harvested anything with it yet to compare, but so far my experience has been similar to yours, very leafy and branchy, and a lot of maintenance. the amount of leaves I’ve been pulling off of these plants is insane, and you couldn’t guess it by looking at it, they pop up everywhere

this leaf was from a megacrop plant, and is only a couple weeks old. I rushed two plants through veg to flip with my bigger four in this tent, and only did one top, about two weeks before flipping, this leaf came from above where I topped, so is only two weeks to three weeks old, and is massive.


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## swedsteven (Feb 9, 2020)

iShatterBladderz said:


> I’m still running dynagro in the tent that I had talked to you about, but ive been running megacrop in my bigger one. I’m glad I read this, because I just flipped into flower, and around week 3 i plan on lowering the MC and replacing 1-2g of it with their new formulation of Sweet Candy (0-17-28 ) which not only is now a PK booster, but also has humid & fulvic acids, which I think I read somewhere that you like to use additives with humid & fulvic for increased aroma & flavor. I also have their regular PK booster (bud explosion) on hand, just in case I’m not happy with the new Sweet Candy. Haven’t harvested anything with it yet to compare, but so far my experience has been similar to yours, very leafy and branchy, and a lot of maintenance. the amount of leaves I’ve been pulling off of these plants is insane, and you couldn’t guess it by looking at it, they pop up everywhere
> 
> this leaf was from a megacrop plant, and is only a couple weeks old. I rushed two plants through veg to flip with my bigger four in this tent, and only did one top, about two weeks before flipping, this leaf came from above where I topped, so is only two weeks to three weeks old, and is massive.
> View attachment 4471860


Wow perfect


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## natstonecold (Mar 4, 2020)

Hi @homebrewer , have you tried or known about Green planet Dual 1 and Dual 2? They also include all elements but much higher percentage. I know it is 2 parts, and my friends recommend them to me because they had good results. They also use Massive, Liquid Weight, Rezin, and other carbs during flowering. 
However, I decided to choose Dyna Foliage Pro and Protekt from start to finish (I use coco) and I’m in week 2 of flowering because of its ease of use. Thanks!


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## DaFreak (Mar 4, 2020)

Very nice thread. Nice writing. Nice work.


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## homebrewer (Mar 5, 2020)

natstonecold said:


> Hi @homebrewer , have you tried or known about Green planet Dual 1 and Dual 2? They also include all elements but much higher percentage. I know it is 2 parts, and my friends recommend them to me because they had good results. They also use Massive, Liquid Weight, Rezin, and other carbs during flowering.
> However, I decided to choose Dyna Foliage Pro and Protekt from start to finish (I use coco) and I’m in week 2 of flowering because of its ease of use. Thanks!


Duel fuel looks like it would work pretty well in container gardens. Doesn't look too expensive either.


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## natstonecold (Mar 5, 2020)

homebrewer said:


> Duel fuel looks like it would work pretty well in container gardens. Doesn't look too expensive either.


Thank you for your reply! I have researched your threads these days and just starting use Dynagro Foliage Pro and Protekt for my girls with Mokoko (medium is coco) since vegging in week 4 and now I’m in week 2 of flowering. There are some questions that I know you might answer hundred times but I cannot live without asking them 

1/ Protekt (0.5 - 1 ml/gal) add first, then FP, then Floralicious Plus. Can I add protekt after that as PH UP without locking out nutrients?
I tried to get PH 5.9 or 5.8 and PPM around 500 or 600 (including my water’s ppm: 100)

2/ Should I buy Dyna Bloom and use with FP with ratio: 4/1 or 2/1 (FP/Bloom)? 

3/ How do you treat PM and thrips effectively during flowering?


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## iShatterBladderz (Mar 5, 2020)

natstonecold said:


> Hi @homebrewer , have you tried or known about Green planet Dual 1 and Dual 2? They also include all elements but much higher percentage. I know it is 2 parts, and my friends recommend them to me because they had good results. They also use Massive, Liquid Weight, Rezin, and other carbs during flowering.
> However, I decided to choose Dyna Foliage Pro and Protekt from start to finish (I use coco) and I’m in week 2 of flowering because of its ease of use. Thanks!


I know guys local to me using dual fuel with great results. He’s actually a breeder, you can see pics of his plants at https://hymansuegenetics.com/shop?olsPage=products


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## homebrewer (Mar 5, 2020)

natstonecold said:


> Thank you for your reply! I have researched your threads these days and just starting use Dynagro Foliage Pro and Protekt for my girls with Mokoko (medium is coco) since vegging in week 4 and now I’m in week 2 of flowering. There are some questions that I know you might answer hundred times but I cannot live without asking them
> 
> 1/ Protekt (0.5 - 1 ml/gal) add first, then FP, then Floralicious Plus. Can I add protekt after that as PH UP without locking out nutrients?
> I tried to get PH 5.9 or 5.8 and PPM around 500 or 600 (including my water’s ppm: 100)
> ...


1) Yes, in my experience it's not a problem. 

2) You can try a bloom booster if you'd like to see if it helps. I think your best bet is FP all the way through but it's worth an experiment on your end. 

3) Spinosad for thrips. PM is an environmental issue. There are chemicals you can spray but that's just putting a bandaid on the issue. You need to find out WHY you're have a PM issue. I had PM once when I was bringing in outside air in the middle of winter. I stopped doing that and the PM went away. In the meantime I think I treated with a high pH solution, like Protekt at 4mls/quart? I can't remember.


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## natstonecold (Mar 6, 2020)

homebrewer said:


> 1) Yes, in my experience it's not a problem.
> 
> 2) You can try a bloom booster if you'd like to see if it helps. I think your best bet is FP all the way through but it's worth an experiment on your end.
> 
> 3) Spinosad for thrips. PM is an environmental issue. There are chemicals you can spray but that's just putting a bandaid on the issue. You need to find out WHY you're have a PM issue. I had PM once when I was bringing in outside air in the middle of winter. I stopped doing that and the PM went away. In the meantime I think I treated with a high pH solution, like Protekt at 4mls/quart? I can't remember.


- Thank you! And the PH 5.8 or 5.9 are good in coco, right?
- I see you mentioned about watering techniques. In coco, can I let the medium dry about 1 or 2 inches before watering? because I don’t want to attract Gnats which I got them before. 
- How far should I place the lights? I will buy a lux meter soon but I don’t know exactly which range is best for flowering and vegging. Right now I only guess based on hand testing. The distance is around 22 inches and I’m using 1000w hps but I use only 75%, then I see all top leaves of my girls are light green so I reduced to 50% yesterday after watering. I’m afraid that 50% will affect my yield. 

I’m sorry for asking too many questions. Thanks!


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## Tenthfloor (Apr 6, 2020)

homebrewer, in your experience does the DG foliage pro also increase branching and leaves that much because of high N? 
I’m running a test on mega/sweet candy at 4/1 right now because I usually use GH maxi/armor/kool bloom/flor+ but the flor+ has been clogging my res. I’m in promix but it’s a 5gal SIP interconnected system with a single feed res, so kind of a hybrid system to a degree, in that it is promix but isn’t drain to waste. Everything looks great but my leaf game is going through the roof. Also, I agree that the megacrop is pretty messy.
I’m wondering about a combo of DG FP and Greenleaf Sweet Candy to ease the mess, but I’d like to ease the leafiness too (half my plants are gg#4 which is already a leaf disaster as is). I also don’t know what’s going on with Greenleaf’s passion for K but I’ve been afraid to add Bud Explosion except for at the very beginning and end of flower. I’m already at roughly a 9-10-24 npk with the 4/1 mega/SC. I would go straight DG FP/ DG Bloom mix but I’ve used that combo before in promix and it definitely seemed to be missing something vs my GH mix. I’m just trying to find something less messy to replace that magical flor+. Maybe the magic is in the mess though.


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## miyagifungi (Apr 10, 2020)

I wanted to get your thoughts on Athena Nutrients and what you think about their NPK Ratio. I pretty much read all you posts during this time where I find myself at home more often than usual. I recently bought Athena Nutes and was told I could return them within a timely manner. During this time I decided to give Dyna Gro a shot and asked to return them and of course I was told sorry the owner said no. So I was thinking about doing a side by side. Wanted to see what you would recommend using 7 to 10 gallon smart pots in promix...Drain to waste? Thank you for your time.


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## miyagifungi (Apr 16, 2020)

@homebrewer


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## miyagifungi (Apr 16, 2020)

@homebrewer ...Still new to sending messages...Wanted to get your thoughts on this nutrient line and its NPK ratio. Thank you for your time.


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## hybridway2 (Apr 16, 2020)

Dyno-Gro might work as long as you don't come close to following the directions. Pooooy


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## miyagifungi (Apr 16, 2020)

I was thinking about doing a side by side but had some questions for @homebrewer first. Went ahead and bought Dynagro as well to see what I can do. @hybridway2 I actually was reading your posting on LED lighting and Hygro's Youtube channel was there. What do you think about the LEDs he is running and what's your opinion on the eight bar leds ? I actually had some spectre phasers which I am sure are the same as the fluence ones but just private labeled. 




hybridway2 said:


> Dyno-Gro might work as long as you don't come close to following the directions. Pooooy


----------



## genG (Apr 24, 2020)

homebrewer said:


> Thank you for your patience! Life has been non-stop for a while now but I finally made some time for the review.
> 
> *Mega Crop vs Dyna Gro final write-up.....*
> 
> ...


Such a great looking plants. I`ve been seeing your work for a long time when I used to plan (about 5 years ago). Now Im starting again and have a question for you/

Im using GH Flora serie with CaliMagic running RO water for the first time.

Should I mix CalMag with RO water even before the seed sprouted?

My media will be 50% Sphagnum 50% Perlite btw


Thank for the inspiration bro.


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## hybridway2 (Apr 24, 2020)

miyagifungi said:


> I was thinking about doing a side by side but had some questions for @homebrewer first. Went ahead and bought Dynagro as well to see what I can do. @hybridway2 I actually was reading your posting on LED lighting and Hygro's Youtube channel was there. What do you think about the LEDs he is running and what's your opinion on the eight bar leds ? I actually had some spectre phasers which I am sure are the same as the fluence ones but just private labeled.


Apologies, just seeing this now as apparently I've been put on Slo-Mo or some type of restrictions w/o my knowledge to drive me batty. Oh, and NO explanation days after my inquiry. Lmfao! Only RIU...
Anyways, HygroHybrid on You-Tube running the 550 r-spec & x2 , SF's? But no 8 bar light I've seen him use yet.?.
Just so you know, i do not leave comments or suggestions on anyones videos. Only a watcher.
Lmk, if we're taking about the same guy & i can answer your question. 
Hope all is well in your hood!


----------



## miyagifungi (Apr 24, 2020)

hybridway2 said:


> Apologies, just seeing this now as apparently I've been put on Slo-Mo or some type of restrictions w/o my knowledge to drive me batty. Oh, and NO explanation days after my inquiry. Lmfao! Only RIU...
> Anyways, HygroHybrid on You-Tube running the 550 r-spec & x2 , SF's? But no 8 bar light I've seen him use yet.?.
> Just so you know, i do not leave comments or suggestions on anyones videos. Only a watcher.
> Lmk, if we're taking about the same guy & i can answer your question.
> Hope all is well in your hood!


Thanks for the reply. Yes we are talking about the same guy. Im not sold on LEDs yet. Just gathering as many peoples opinions as possible. I did however come across a crazy situation and picked up 9 of the 8 bar spectre phasers. I couldn't pass on the deal. I believe you have ran an 8 bar led and was just curious on what your thoughts were and any suggestions. I was thinking about doing some side by sides with lights and nutrients and have a detailed grow journal. Wanted to get in contact with @homebrewer for some input on Dynagro. 

Main question though is how do think the 8 bar led performs compared to the 1000 watt HPS? Again thanks for your time.


----------



## hybridway2 (May 7, 2020)

miyagifungi said:


> Thanks for the reply. Yes we are talking about the same guy. Im not sold on LEDs yet. Just gathering as many peoples opinions as possible. I did however come across a crazy situation and picked up 9 of the 8 bar spectre phasers. I couldn't pass on the deal. I believe you have ran an 8 bar led and was just curious on what your thoughts were and any suggestions. I was thinking about doing some side by sides with lights and nutrients and have a detailed grow journal. Wanted to get in contact with @homebrewer for some input on Dynagro.
> 
> Main question though is how do think the 8 bar led performs compared to the 1000 watt HPS? Again thanks for your time.


My bad bud! Lost this post to reply.
These them?






Phaser X660 Pro | Spectre LED







spectreled.com





You're gonna rock that Thouie with those bro. Nice! 
If there's any questions i may be able to help with lmk! Be happy to help. Can be a learning curve for many. But once dialed in, there's no going back.


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## miyagifungi (May 7, 2020)

Yes, those are it. I have nine of them. Like I said I couldn't pass the deal up. An older guy just bought them a little over one year ago and he got cancer. He quit and let them go for 300 a piece. Still under warranty even. They were only used for a total 5 months. I have tried LEDs in the past and was very disappointed but it seems now they might be there or pretty damn close. I figured worse case scenario I would use these in Veg if they didn't work plus I was looking for four veg lights anyways at the time.

I do have some questions if you don't mind. I did run some teens under one for veg and noticed they sucked down the nutrients and even became cal mag deficient. Thicker stalks that was clearly visible compared to ones I had under a 400 watt T5. Also had the led 4 ft above the canopy.

So I was wondering what you thought about Nutrients while running these LEDs. Environment and any recommendations? I have heard higher temperatures around 83 degrees supplemented with co2. Also what is the height you would recommend from the canopy? I was told with these LEDs in particular you can go as close as six inches from the canopy. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.


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## miyagifungi (May 7, 2020)

hybridway2 said:


> My bad bud! Lost this post to reply.
> These them?
> 
> 
> ...



My bad forgot to reply directly to your thread. I am still new to this. The forum that is lol.


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## hybridway2 (May 7, 2020)

miyagifungi said:


> My bad forgot to reply directly to your thread. I am still new to this. The forum that is lol.








Amare SolarBar-8


Hello Everyone! First off I'd like to say Thank You to Victor, owner of Amare Tech for making this possible, continuously providing high quality grow lights, outstanding service & going above & beyond on warranty. I'd like to Introduce Amares SolarBar-8. Hoping to provide as much info as...



www.rollitup.org




Its locked rn but all the answers are there.
Will help personally, just mage busy rn.
Start high, use Epsom Salt (Magnesium).


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## jyrdyr (May 17, 2020)

Whats up @homebrewer, was joyriding this corner of the net first time in a while and am glad to see you are still at it!


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## miyagifungi (Jun 7, 2020)

@*hybridway2...Probably going to run these spectre 660 next run to see. Any advice on the distance from the canopy and the light? Also on the ones I have there is no dimming option I believe but I will double check. Thanks for you time. *





hybridway2 said:


> My bad bud! Lost this post to reply.
> These them?
> 
> 
> ...


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## Snowback (Jun 8, 2020)

I read this thread cover to cover. Thanks for the info and comparison. I am a fan of both brands. You might be interested to know that Mega now has the two part available, where the calcium nitrate is separated from the rest of it. It's listed for sale on the Canadian site so I would expect it to be available on the US site as well. There is still nitrogen in the other part, in the form of potassium nitrate and magnesium nitrate, but overall there is about half as much nitrogen by percentage as what is contained in the original one part. But you also get all those beautiful amino-chelated secondary and micros.


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## 1gfunk1 (Jul 30, 2020)

lukio said:


> nice grow, dude.
> 
> whats the tipping from? ive had this on the last two MC grows at 0.9 ec. ive switched nutes


What you changed too? Ionic me or thinking jacks 123 or RO.


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## lukio (Jul 30, 2020)

1gfunk1 said:


> What you changed too? Ionic me or thinking jacks 123 or RO.


lol i forgot about this thread after OP denied there was a problem with all that burn...haaaaaa.



yeah i dropped MC, they were fiddling with ratios and not telling people. theres more about it in another thread somewhere. Go with Jacks if you can get it. 

good luck


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## 1gfunk1 (Jul 30, 2020)

homebrewer said:


> Well you can either add pH-up or you can add something beneficial to the plants. Your choice.
> Advanced growers don't need instructions. Just a pH pen and a TDS meter.
> I think you mean _silicon_, which is the 2nd most abundant element on earth.
> I'll agree that their feeding schedule is not great, but only inexperienced growers follow schedules. To that, I've seen maybe one feeding schedule from a single plant food company that I'd consider spot on. All the rest of them instruct their users to overfeed and are overly complicated. Once you understand that feeding schedules exist more to move product than any other reason, you can stop taking them so literally.
> ...


About ph up & down!! you say you add si cos its something benifcal I agree me too.. but was thinking about swicthing to baking soda & citric acid for ph up & down cos off the buffers & citric acid cycle aka krebs cycle . Anyone got experience useing swapping using theses.? Thanks


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## 1gfunk1 (Jul 30, 2020)

lukio said:


> lol i forgot about this thread after OP denied there was a problem with all that burn...haaaaaa.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's bang out what twats some off theses company's are 
Yeah I can get it am from up north uk . You hydro to ? What you useing I lie to stick with uk brands cos made for my water, hard ,soft & compared to usa some water can get like 0.6 - 1 ec. They dont drink it there.they have to chew the cunt then swollow . So that's why I think we get confused with npk & grower frim usa well some .


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## 1gfunk1 (Jul 30, 2020)

jzs147 said:


> Can ya use megacrop in recirclating systems?


What you useing atm ? Am In hydro dwc & using ionic grow & bloom plus a Few addertive.


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## jzs147 (Jul 30, 2020)

1gfunk1 said:


> What you useing atm ? Am In hydro dwc & using ionic grow & bloom plus a Few addertive.


Fuck that ionic off its shit. I use house an garden aqua flakes now its good shit.


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## hybridway2 (Jul 31, 2020)

jzs147 said:


> Fuck that ionic off its shit. I use house an garden aqua flakes now its good shit.


To bad it wasn't packaged as real flakes instead of buyin H+G tap water. H&G is a good one for healthy, thick, green plants but way expensive & i doubt any of that crazy shit i was paying for was necessary now that i have done better then ever using wicked Inexpensive Jacks. So Simple n Cheap its bonkers. 
Ionic is Poo IMO but the absolute worst is EDITTED: Dyna-Grow.. Originally i thought Ionic would be good because, Heck, you can't deny CloneX. In flower I have not used it enough to tell (just as a fill in on the go, maybe that was the incident that lead to a few bad leaves) but in veg, using the one part grow, Oh no, i get mutated growth every single time. 
Dyna-Grow is just nuts. If a company suggests a feeding regimen like that they are not actually using their own product to even test. Like here, have at it, you know more then i do and I'm the company. Oh my! 
Maybe if one dissects each product, makes his/her own changes accordingly, then sure. As with anything. But we pay to be provided with the feeding chart in which is supposed to make sense & work.


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## Keesje (Jul 31, 2020)

I was searching for what is the best nutrient (if that even exists)
Then I also came to this site called Hydrobuddy
As I understand you can copy any brand of nutes with mixing single elements yourself.
Which means you don't pay for water (if you buy liquid nutes now) or way less then for JR Petersen for example.
So, that sounded good to me, until I started reading.
Man, I still have a headache.
It is so fucking hard.


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## Snowback (Jul 31, 2020)

Mega Crop "Part A" from the two part Mega Crop + DynaGro Foliage Pro, with occasional doses of calcium nitrate worked pretty good on a couple testers.


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## jzs147 (Jul 31, 2020)

hybridway2 said:


> To bad it wasn't packaged as real flakes instead of buyin H+G tap water. H&G is a good one for healthy, thick, green plants but way expensive & i doubt any of that crazy shit i was paying for was necessary now that i have done better then ever using wicked Inexpensive Jacks. So Simple n Cheap its bonkers.
> Ionic is Poo IMO but the absolute worst is EDITTED: Dyna-Grow.. Originally i thought Ionic would be good because, Heck, you can't deny CloneX. In flower I have not used it enough to tell (just as a fill in on the go, maybe that was the incident that lead to a few bad leaves) but in veg, using the one part grow, Oh no, i get mutated growth every single time.
> Dyna-Grow is just nuts. If a company suggests a feeding regimen like that they are not actually using their own product to even test. Like here, have at it, you know more then i do and I'm the company. Oh my!
> Maybe if one dissects each product, makes his/her own changes accordingly, then sure. As with anything. But we pay to be provided with the feeding chart in which is supposed to make sense & work.


Each to there own buddy.
If you worried about the price of shit dont do it.
Cost me 140 aussie dollars to make 15 or 16k nutes wise 
Overall expense bout 3k to get that 16k i can live with that.
Im including power nutes and hydroton here.
An we gotta pay for water in australia


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## hybridway2 (Aug 1, 2020)

jzs147 said:


> Each to there own buddy.
> If you worried about the price of shit dont do it.
> Cost me 140 aussie dollars to make 15 or 16k nutes wise
> Overall expense bout 3k to get that 16k i can live with that.
> ...


Wasn't worried about price so much until i found out about 3-5 cents a gall using Jacks. $120 got me 2 big bags.
Not 1000 in bottled nutes.


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## Snowback (Aug 3, 2020)

How heavy are those bags? The "Mega Crop A" cost, including shipping, about $US65 ($87CAD) for a 25 pound bag. So that would be pretty close for both bags.


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## WeedSexWeightsShakes (Aug 5, 2020)

browsed through a little bit and nice comparison!
i grow with megacrop (plus sweet candy and bud explosion in flower) in my flood and drain tables. 
3 4x8 tables each with 115 g res


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## 1ManTeam (Nov 18, 2020)

miyagifungi said:


> Yes, those are it. I have nine of them. Like I said I couldn't pass the deal up. An older guy just bought them a little over one year ago and he got cancer. He quit and let them go for 300 a piece. Still under warranty even. They were only used for a total 5 months. I have tried LEDs in the past and was very disappointed but it seems now they might be there or pretty damn close. I figured worse case scenario I would use these in Veg if they didn't work plus I was looking for four veg lights anyways at the time.
> 
> I do have some questions if you don't mind. I did run some teens under one for veg and noticed they sucked down the nutrients and even became cal mag deficient. Thicker stalks that was clearly visible compared to ones I had under a 400 watt T5. Also had the led 4 ft above the canopy.
> 
> So I was wondering what you thought about Nutrients while running these LEDs. Environment and any recommendations? I have heard higher temperatures around 83 degrees supplemented with co2. Also what is the height you would recommend from the canopy? I was told with these LEDs in particular you can go as close as six inches from the canopy. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.


How do u like the spectre phasers man!?


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## Jiray4 (Sep 11, 2021)

Who's that on your profile picture?
I think I found you accidentally on youtube tho
Thanks for all your time here!


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## swedsteven (Feb 25, 2022)

homebrewer said:


> In my opinion, MC is a little dirty for hydro. It clearly works but it coats all surfaces below your waterline with a film of something. It's not algae; it's almost like a particulate or dust? I posted a pic earlier in the thread.


Thx for all your content again you did so much .
Your journals are the best if any one need to learn just read all is post nice job I will love to know if your still going good bro .
Peace


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## Frosty the Nug Man (May 6, 2022)

a little off topic but does anyone know what happened to @homebrewer. He hasn't posted in a couple of years. Just hoping everything is well. He was a great asset to the community.


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## weedbehi (Nov 19, 2022)

homebrewer said:


> Thank you for your patience! Life has been non-stop for a while now but I finally made some time for the review.
> 
> *Mega Crop vs Dyna Gro final write-up.....*
> 
> ...


I'm guessing the Megacrop yield was far greater than Dyna-grow yileds because he did not compare the yields as he normally does with his grow offs.Just a theory,would like to be prived wrong or right.


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