# Flushing vs. Not Flushing



## bluemagicman (Jul 11, 2011)

Hey RIU,
I have been reading some stuff that goes both ways about flushing recently, alot of people say to flush to force the plant to use excess chemicals in the soil and leafs and alot of people say don't because you are starving your plant when it's producing the most thc, well what i want to know is have any of you tried not flushing a plant and flushing one in the same grow? Results? Also I was thinking after all it's curing that breaks chlorophyl into thc right? So what do you think? I was gonna flush for 1 week with plain water and molasses


----------



## htroff420 (Jul 11, 2011)

Ok so same as you I had wondered this question so I set out and used plain water to flush a plant 2 weeks before harvest. Then I used a flush solution on one starting 10 days before harvest and the other I fed up untill harvest. What I did find was that the one that was fed all the way had a stronger harsher smoke. The other two flushed tasted almost the same very minor differences which could have been with the strains not the way they were flushed. But after curing i can't say I've noticed a big difference in any of them. I had some buddy's over and we all did a blind taste testing of them all. And honestly no one was able to pinpoint which one when it was smoked. Personaly I will prolly just water a week before harvest anymore... I'm sure theirs many who will disagree


----------



## woodsmaneh! (Jul 11, 2011)

bluemagicman said:


> Hey RIU,
> I have been reading some stuff that goes both ways about flushing recently, alot of people say to flush to force the plant to use excess chemicals in the soil and leafs and alot of people say don't because you are starving your plant when it's producing the most thc, well what i want to know is have any of you tried not flushing a plant and flushing one in the same grow? Results? Also *I was thinking after all it's curing that breaks chlorophyl into thc right?* NO So what do you think? I was gonna flush for 1 week with plain water and molasses


Flushing can about in the early stages of the industry as a way to help people who don't know how to grow. Most people over feed and this is where flushing came into play. Curing will fix most over ferted plants. The key is to not dry it to fast because as soon as itn is dry every thing is locked in, so slow is the way to go. 

I put the summery first, It is also backed up by science links attached.


*Summary:* 
*
Pre-harvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress.* The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are losing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well. 

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn&#8217;t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn&#8217;t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with pre-harvest flushing. 

*For one thing, the most common way that growers flush their crops is by giving their crops water that has no nutrients in it. But this doesn't fully cleanse your crops. It only starves your plants so they lose vigorous floral growth and resin percentages just before harvest. Other growers use flushing formulas that generally consist of a few chemicals that sometimes have the ability to pull a limited amount of residues out of your plants.*


*Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:* 

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process. 

The major nutrient uptake processes are: 

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment. 

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis. 

http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html 

The claim only &#8216;chemical&#8217; ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavour of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions. 

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis. 

*Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:* 

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulphur is part of amino acids and proteins. 

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon. 

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is needed for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance. 

http://www.sidwell.edu 

You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other. 

*Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:* 

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so. 

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly: 
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins. 

http://www.sirinet.net 

Not all nutrient compounds are movable within the plant. 

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem. 
Deficiency appears on old leaves first. 

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem. 
Deficiency appears on new leaves first. 

http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu 

*Storage organelles:* 

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though. 

http://jeb.biologists.org.pdf 

*Trans-location:* 

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the trans-location process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be trans located through the phloem. Immobile elements can&#8217;t be trans located and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth. 

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the root-zone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Trans-location is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc. 

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don&#8217;t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first. 

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved. 

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins; most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth. 

Sulphur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen. 

http://muextension.missouri.edu 

*Summary:* 

Pre-harvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are losing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well. 

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn&#8217;t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn&#8217;t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with pre-harvest flushing. 

Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavour, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on un-flushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or over fertilization and improper drying/curing.


----------



## bamfrivet (Jul 11, 2011)

I am on a mission to get people away from the idea that you NEED to flush your plants 2 weeks before harvest. There are exceptions, but in general you don't need to do it. All it does is starve your plants, keeping them from producing to their full potential. A proper dry and cure will take care of any "fert" taste you get, which in most cases is actually chlorophyll still in the plant from not drying and curing the right way.

Now if it's in Hydro or soilless mediums, I have no idea about flushing

check out the link in my sig for some other myths


----------



## Encomium (Jul 11, 2011)

woodsmaneh! said:


> Flushing can about in the early stages of the industry as a way to help people who don't know how to grow. Most people over feed and this is where flushing came into play. Curing will fix most over ferted plants. The key is to not dry it to fast because as soon as itn is dry every thing is locked in, so slow is the way to go.
> 
> I put the summery first, It is also backed up by science links attached.


It's usually common courtesy to at least give props to the original authors or at the very least mention the fact that the info given was copy-pasted elsewhere (another rollitup thread no less). The part I quoted is the only original lines that you replied with. I guess at the very least helpful information is being transmitted. At any rate the original thread that woodsman semi quoted is *HERE* and written or amassed by Riddleme.


----------



## bluemagicman (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks guys, so I think ill just use plain water and molasses for the last few waterings and use nutes up untill a week before harvest


----------



## htroff420 (Jul 12, 2011)

woodsmaneh! said:


> Flushing can about in the early stages of the industry as a way to help people who don't know how to grow. Most people over feed and this is where flushing came into play. Curing will fix most over ferted plants. The key is to not dry it to fast because as soon as itn is dry every thing is locked in, so slow is the way to go.


Yo Homie where are these scientific links to go with it? I mean those links are cool and all, They explain what plants need and what not but we all pretty much get that. Im sorry if im blind but i couldn't find anything in those articles about pre-harvest flushing nor anything about flushing at all. Just an FYI from a BIO major those aren't scientific facts... In order to call something scientific facts the scientific method must be done. Where is this report at? that's the one that matters I want to know what steps were used to get to this conclusion; how many plants were involved in the experiment, what were the factors, did you use the same method on more than one to make sure? what kind of back up research was done, and finally where is the analysis of all of your data? like the tables or just plain facts from an experiment would be good! "Scientific links" HA


----------



## keifcake (Jul 12, 2011)

No scientific evidence here, but ive had a couple recently that didnt get flushed because they suprisingly finished on me...
Cant remember what strains i didnt get to flush but it was withing the last month or so and i cant tell by smoking them...

In conclusion, ill never flush again, may cut back on nutes a little, but ill never flush again.. Whats the point? Everything i read about not flushing hasnt come to fruition, so as far as im concerned if the it crackels when it burns, gives you a headache, taste really bad, or is really harsh(just what i remember off the top of my head) is busted then theres no point.


----------



## htroff420 (Jul 12, 2011)

> woodsmaneh
> 
> Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the root-zone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Trans-location is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.
> 
> ...


I like the first where it says "in theory" scientific proof huh?
And then a couple paragraphs later you say pre-harvest flushing puts the plants under stress? why is this a proven fact now but early it was in theory? 
Im not trying to insult your intelligence just because you copied and pasted a bunch of shit Im just trying to understand your scientific facts that's all.


----------



## htroff420 (Jul 12, 2011)

keifcake said:


> No scientific evidence here, but ive had a couple recently that didnt get flushed because they suprisingly finished on me...
> Cant remember what strains i didnt get to flush but it was withing the last month or so and i cant tell by smoking them...
> 
> In conclusion, ill never flush again, may cut back on nutes a little, but ill never flush again.. Whats the point? Everything i read about not flushing hasnt come to fruition, so as far as im concerned if the it crackels when it burns, gives you a headache, taste really bad, or is really harsh(just what i remember off the top of my head) is busted then theres no point.


Completely with you I did this experiment and found that I couldn't notice shit, I'll just cut back on nutes that's about it


----------



## djruiner (Jul 12, 2011)

htroff420 said:


> Yo Homie where are these scientific links to go with it? I mean those links are cool and all, They explain what plants need and what not but we all pretty much get that. Im sorry if im blind but i couldn't find anything in those articles about pre-harvest flushing nor anything about flushing at all. Just an FYI from a BIO major those aren't scientific facts... In order to call something scientific facts the scientific method must be done. Where is this report at? that's the one that matters I want to know what steps were used to get to this conclusion; how many plants were involved in the experiment, what were the factors, did you use the same method on more than one to make sure? what kind of back up research was done, and finally where is the analysis of all of your data? like the tables or just plain facts from an experiment would be good! "Scientific links" HA


thats the problem...people are given scientific answers...but its so far over their head they choose to not do research on simple botany and just follow what kids on forums say is facts....the facts are given...its not our fault if your not willing to figure out the hows and whys of it all...this is what this world has come to...if you cant get an instant google answer...then its just not true. if you like i can surely break down the science of it all it in "forum terms"....but i dont see that doing any good...you will read it...then find one thing that seems a little off to you...then you will pick it apart with what you THINK is fact. maybe one day "bill nye the science guy" will do a show on marijuana cultivation and then maybe some people will get a clue. just glad im not smoking 90% of the shit grown from people on this site.


----------



## htroff420 (Jul 12, 2011)

djruiner said:


> thats the problem...people are given scientific answers...but its so far over their head they choose to not do research on simple botany and just follow what kids on forums say is facts....the facts are given...its not our fault if your not willing to figure out the hows and whys of it all...this is what this world has come to...if you cant get an instant google answer...then its just not true. if you like i can surely break down the science of it all it in "forum terms"....but i dont see that doing any good...you will read it...then find one thing that seems a little off to you...then you will pick it apart with what you THINK is fact. maybe one day "bill nye the science guy" will do a show on marijuana cultivation and then maybe some people will get a clue. just glad im not smoking 90% of the shit grown from people on this site.


I feel ya brother that's why I always say if you wanna know what's best for you try different things because other people don't know shit. I only bicker because of the so called facts that are always thrown around.


----------



## HighLowGrow (Jul 12, 2011)

What I do is stop the nutes about two weeks prior to harvest. Then just plain water up until harvest. It's basically a flush without doing a flush.


----------



## djruiner (Jul 12, 2011)

htroff420 said:


> I feel ya brother that's why I always say if you wanna know what's best for you try different things because other people don't know shit. I only bicker because of the so called facts that are always thrown around.


i take nothing as fact till i see it first hand...and from numerous experiments....some people flush their plant once..say it tastes great...so that must mean flushing is a fact. i research outside MJ forums for info...too much ego and myths that seem to go hand in hand with MJ...now some myths do have facts behind them..but then get twisted and distorted over time by people trying to pass along info that they dont understand. so before someone can claim something as facts...have visual experimental proof...from you and others...then your getting into facts and not myths. ive noticed when going by factual info i get the desired results...but while testing myths...and trust me ive tested and experimented with them all...that sometime it works and sometimes it dont. so a lot of these myths that people pass as facts are something they tried...and it happened to work that one time..so to them its a fact...while most of the other people dont get those results (example...flushing).


----------



## djruiner (Jul 12, 2011)

HighLowGrow said:


> What I do is stop the nutes about two weeks prior to harvest. Then just plain water up until harvest. It's basically a flush without doing a flush.


but your still depriving it of food and making it take its food from itself...so whats the difference?


----------



## HighLowGrow (Jul 12, 2011)

djruiner said:


> but your still depriving it of food and making it take its food from itself...so whats the difference?


My thinking is that there are still nutes in the soil for the last 2 weeks. I don't make it a science. Sometimes I use nutes all the way through. Sometimes not. 

I have flushed and not flushed. The buds I grow have never popped, smelled, or tasted different flushed or not so why go through the extra step.

I use nutes very sparingly anyway.


----------



## djruiner (Jul 12, 2011)

HighLowGrow said:


> My thinking is that there are still nutes in the soil for the last 2 weeks. I don't make it a science. Sometimes I use nutes all the way through. Sometimes not.
> 
> I have flushed and not flushed. The buds I grow have never popped, smelled, or tasted different flushed or not so why go through the extra step.
> 
> I use nutes very sparingly anyway.


enough nutes for a couple days sure....but not 2 weeks...not if your watering as usual..your going to wash the nutes out. but i agree with there being no difference between flushed and unflushed...other then the potency...if your stressing the hell out of your plant before harvest..your going to lose potency. but if your bud pops and crackles...is harsh...tastes bad...that has nothing to do with flushing..thats improper dry and cure...things get easily confused it seems


----------



## jondamon (Jul 12, 2011)

djruiner said:


> enough nutes for a couple days sure....but not 2 weeks...not if your watering as usual..your going to wash the nutes out. but i agree with there being no difference between flushed and unflushed...other then the potency...if your stressing the hell out of your plant before harvest..your going to lose potency. but if your bud pops and crackles...is harsh...tastes bad...that has nothing to do with flushing..thats improper dry and cure...things get easily confused it seems


I couldnt agree more. I too am the try it and see kind of guy, and i ran a test on 2 clones from the same Mother of DNA GENETICS SOUR CREAM, the only noticeable difference for me was pre-cure, nuted plants smoke was a little harsher than the "flushed" plant but the nuted one did have more flavour straight after drying, however once they had cured seperately in different jars for around 3weeks they pretty much were on par with each other. Stone was pretty much the same, but i will say that my nutes were good in N so they were very lush and green all the way through and only paled slightly on the flushed plant by harvest time.



J



J


----------



## keifcake (Jul 12, 2011)

htroff420 said:


> Completely with you I did this experiment and found that I couldn't notice shit, I'll just cut back on nutes that's about it


Exactly, i can buy into the fact it stresses them at the most crucial time, at least i do now. Ill never starve em again.


----------



## alphawolf.hack (Jul 12, 2011)

i just water plain water last 2 weeks. i just wait till i see some water out the bottom them stop. i dont do the whole flush thing it just isnt necessary yeah it works but i dont think its a big enough difference. i think all taste comes from the cure


----------



## htroff420 (Jul 12, 2011)

djruiner said:


> so a lot of these myths that people pass as facts are something they tried...and it happened to work that one time..so to them its a fact...while most of the other people dont get those results (example...flushing).


So true....


----------



## r1tony (Jul 13, 2011)

I never flush, use organic nutes and feed them till they get chopped. Everyone who has had the pleasure of my buds has always said it's some of the best they had. Smooth, flavorful and potent. We also had side by side Ak-47 one from me and one from fellow MMJ that flushes. Everyone said mine was far superior in taste and smoothness.

Now this is with Botanicare nutes, when you use chemically originated nutes then it might be different.


----------



## CanadianDank (Jul 17, 2011)

Hey there just wanted to chime in,
I just finished paradise seeds Magic Bud (organic grow), flushed two and for experiments sake did not flush the third.
I dried them properly and cured for three weeks.
My personal experience was that the unflushed plant tasted awful, i mean not unsmokable, but nowhere near what i want to be smoking. Had to turn most of it into hash.
The two that I flushed turned out wonderfully. 
The funny part is, the only reason i tried not flushing was because lately i've been reading more and more people stating it is not neccasary, i found otherwise.
Just my findings.


----------



## Gary Busey (Jul 17, 2011)

Here's my take on flushing (for soil):

Some people flush for the last 2 weeks of flower. The problem with that is, you are starving your plant for the most important part of its life. It swells up a lot in the last 2 weeks. I believe it will hurt yield and potency if you flush too soon, and to me, I am not trading yield and potency for a better flavor. 

I never noticed any nute flavors in my buds. 

I'm on my first hydro grow after growing in soil for 18 years, I will do a "flush" during last few days, basically just having a res with plain PH'd water.


----------



## bamfrivet (Jul 17, 2011)

CanadianDank said:


> Hey there just wanted to chime in,
> I just finished paradise seeds Magic Bud (organic grow), flushed two and for experiments sake did not flush the third.
> I dried them properly and cured for three weeks.
> My personal experience was that the unflushed plant tasted awful, i mean not unsmokable, but nowhere near what i want to be smoking. Had to turn most of it into hash.
> ...


I think that you just taste a difference because you know you didn't flush it and you have been trained all these years that flushing is that important to taste. I think if you would have packed a bowl of flushed and a bowl of unflushed and give them to a friend and tell them to try them, just tell them they both came off plants at different harvest times, and see what they say about the taste. your mind has a way of control things like smell and taste if you expect it to smell or taste a certain way.


----------



## CanadianDank (Jul 17, 2011)

bamfrivet said:


> I think that you just taste a difference because you know you didn't flush it and you have been trained all these years that flushing is that important to taste. I think if you would have packed a bowl of flushed and a bowl of unflushed and give them to a friend and tell them to try them, just tell them they both came off plants at different harvest times, and see what they say about the taste. your mind has a way of control things like smell and taste if you expect it to smell or taste a certain way.


Unfortunetly no, Others asked why some of the Magic Bud tasted different....
And when organic nutes are based on things such as fish emulsion even the slightest hint is nasty.


----------



## djruiner (Jul 17, 2011)

CanadianDank said:


> Unfortunetly no, Others asked why some of the Magic Bud tasted different....
> And when organic nutes are based on things such as fish emulsion even the slightest hint is nasty.


are you smoking the soil? or do you seriously think that the plants roots can uptake any fish material that contains a fish smell? do people think that roots are straws that just suck up everything you put in the soil?


----------



## CanadianDank (Jul 17, 2011)

djruiner said:


> are you smoking the soil? or do you seriously think that the plants roots can uptake any fish material that contains a fish smell? do people think that roots are straws that just suck up everything you put in the soil?


 Hey man i'm not trying to personally challenge you, and i do believe other people have had other findings, but that was mine.
BTW, I was growing in a soilless medium, some people say this has an effect.


----------



## djruiner (Jul 17, 2011)

CanadianDank said:


> Hey man i'm not trying to personally challenge you, and i do believe other people have had other findings, but that was mine.
> BTW, I was growing in a soilless medium, some people say this has an effect.


not challenging...debating...its how we determine what is myths and what isnt..but forum hype is really beginning to make the number of myths rise. and i am not going by "other peoples finding" aka "forum hype" im going by scientific facts..not to mention simple 6th grade botany stuff. its pathological lying...just in forum form. if a person keeps telling the same lie over and over...in their head it eventually becomes truth to them...so is the case with forum myths. if you see it and read it over and over again...it becomes truth to people...not because its facts...because they see it so many times by so many people that in their head it must be the truth.


----------



## djruiner (Jul 17, 2011)

found this little ditty....i like the part where it also calls it "mythomaniacs"



> How can you tell if someone is a pathological liar?
> In: Mental Health, Narcissism, Sociopathy
> Answers.com > Wiki Answers > Categories > Health > Mental Health > How can you tell if someone is a pathological liar?
> Answer:
> ...


----------



## CanadianDank (Jul 17, 2011)

Okay man.
Getting a little off topic aren't ya?
Sorry you don't agree with my views on the final flush.


----------



## djruiner (Jul 17, 2011)

CanadianDank said:


> Okay man.
> Getting a little off topic aren't ya?
> Sorry you don't agree with my views on the final flush.


how is it off topic? talking about flushing vs not flushing...well flushing is a myth..im explaining why it is and why it stays a myth and not forgotten


----------



## CanadianDank (Jul 17, 2011)

djruiner said:


> not challenging...debating...its how we determine what is myths and what isnt..but forum hype is really beginning to make the number of myths rise. and i am not going by "other peoples finding" aka "forum hype" im going by scientific facts..not to mention simple 6th grade botany stuff. its pathological lying...just in forum form. if a person keeps telling the same lie over and over...in their head it eventually becomes truth to them...so is the case with forum myths. if you see it and read it over and over again...it becomes truth to people...not because its facts...because they see it so many times by so many people that in their head it must be the truth.


And this proves you dont need to flush??
Oh what scientific proof you have.


----------



## djruiner (Jul 17, 2011)

CanadianDank said:


> And this proves you dont need to flush??
> Oh what scientific proof you have.


maybe try reading the whole thread? do i have to keep retyping everything for those to lazy to scroll down?


----------



## woodsusa (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm going to flush and cut down my lights to 10 on 14 off for the last 10 days of flowering. I have 4 different photoperiods, harvested and pretty well cured, that I didn't flush and they all have kind of a similar very slight chemical taste. I'm no expert by any means but I'm going to try flushing on 3 that are close to finishing.


----------



## CanadianDank (Jul 17, 2011)

woodsusa said:


> I'm going to flush and cut down my lights to 10 on 14 off for the last 10 days of flowering. I have 4 different photoperiods, harvested and pretty well cured, that I didn't flush and they all have kind of a similar very slight chemical taste. I'm no expert by any means but I'm going to try flushing on 3 that are close to finishing.


Trust me, If anything, It's worth a try.


----------



## bamfrivet (Jul 17, 2011)

I honestly don't understand how people can't believe that marijuana is the only plant that you need to starve before you cut it or it will taste like shit... I just don't get it. You don't starve tomato's, blue berries, carrots, starwberries, tobacco, corn, lettuce... you get it? If what is in the soil were to travel up to the plant's fruits and flowers then you would see farmers all over the world starving their plants before harvest all over the world... but you don't.. because it's a bad idea.


----------



## canefan (Jul 18, 2011)

^^^Ain't it the truth, its really sad what is passed as truth and biology at times around here. I'm just glad I don't eat from their veggie garden.


----------



## woodsusa (Jul 18, 2011)

It's not quite the same as a veggie garden though I admit my gardening skills are minimal. In a veggied garden you're going for fruit. With weed you're going for unfertilized flowers. Maybe you shouldn't flush, maybe you should, but like I said my first batch all had a slight chem taste and there was 4 different types growing. So I'll try it on 1 of 3 types I have flowering now that are getting close to finishing.


----------



## bamfrivet (Jul 18, 2011)

woodsusa said:


> It's not quite the same as a veggie garden though I admit my gardening skills are minimal. In a veggied garden you're going for fruit. With weed you're going for unfertilized flowers. Maybe you shouldn't flush, maybe you should, but like I said my first batch all had a slight chem taste and there was 4 different types growing. So I'll try it on 1 of 3 types I have flowering now that are getting close to finishing.


It was your first grow and all the plants tasted bad even though they were different strains.... could it have had something to do with drying it to quickly and not curing it properly? I mean most people with their first harvest don't dry and cure properly, just like growing it takes experiences to get it right.


----------



## woodsusa (Jul 18, 2011)

It could very well have had something to do with the way I dryed and cured it. When I harvested I cut off all the big leaves then I hung the tops, on the stems upside down on cords I had strung in my basement. Basement is about 75 degrees usually and not real humid. After 3 or 4 days they seemed pretty dry so I trimmed the small leaves, not all of them just most. Then I put it in containers which I opened a couple times a day for the next couple weeks. So it I think it's only been about 24 days since harvest. I still open the containers once a day.


----------



## r1tony (Jul 18, 2011)

Its funny how these "flush or not flush" threads turn into bashing on either side. Mods should do their jobs and just lock all of these, they are non-productive. Bottom line try either way and find out for your fucking self what YOU like better!


----------



## HighLowGrow (Jul 18, 2011)

One time I didn't flush and my wife got pissed. The next time I flushed it overflowed and my wife got pissed.

Ok. Time for a new wife.


----------



## bamfrivet (Jul 18, 2011)

HighLowGrow said:


> One time I didn't flush and my wife got pissed. The next time I flushed it overflowed and my wife got pissed.
> 
> Ok. Time for a new wife.


do what I do, tell her if she isn't happy with it, grow it herself next time. or she can go out and buy some and I'll smoke what I grow and be happy with it.


----------



## r1tony (Jul 19, 2011)

My wife just gets pissed when I don't lift the seat, I think I could never ever flush and if I get one little drop of moisture on the ring then I get hell.


----------



## loudpac (Jul 19, 2011)

ok, so djruiner, ruined the thread, lls.
ever heard of 2cents cuz? not the whole quater!

anyways... 
Bluemagicman, (FROM MY EXPERIENCE AND IMO) I think flushing is necessary, I do it about 2-3 days before harvest. Except I literally tak the roots to the sink, then flushed all the soil away and put her in new soil for the last days. I think people say weeks because of the stuff soil holds in it, but for hyrdro i've read in PUBLISHED books only do days. Makes sense considering plants cycle through whats coming in the roots within HOURS!!!
With that said i can agree with people disagreeing starving your plants weeks in the final growth, which is why i dont do it. I flush days prior to harvest and have no problems. 
Burn to white ash when smoked with my experience.

Most of the weed smoked on the street (depending where you live) isn't flushed and many people smoke it fine with no problem. so, to each is own....


----------



## bluemagicman (Jul 19, 2011)

From my experience, watering with straight water and molasses for the last week seems to give a nice taste, however I don't think you need to completely drench your plant, like someone said before the taste has alot to do with the drying and curing, if you don't cure right, excess chlorophyl remains unchained in the bud, this is what that harsh taste is


----------



## djruiner (Jul 19, 2011)

loudpac said:


> ok, so djruiner, ruined the thread, lls.
> ever heard of 2cents cuz? not the whole quater!


your right...how dare i offer advice on a website full of people growing in their parents house in fucking computer cases...how dare i try to point out the myths and lies that surround this hobby...please people keep flushing your plants. those nasty nutes are all in your buds...cant have any nutes in them 14 gram harvests now can we?


----------



## bamfrivet (Jul 19, 2011)

loudpac said:


> ok, so djruiner, ruined the thread, lls.
> ever heard of 2cents cuz? not the whole quater!
> 
> anyways...
> ...


May I ask why you put it back into fresh soil? Or rather what your thought process behind putting it into fresh soil is, versus just flushing your plant once 2 weeks before harvest to get the salts out of the soil?


----------



## dannyboy602 (Jul 20, 2011)

bluemagicman said:


> Hey RIU,
> I have been reading some stuff that goes both ways about flushing recently, alot of people say to flush to force the plant to use excess chemicals in the soil and leafs and alot of people say don't because you are starving your plant when it's producing the most thc, well what i want to know is have any of you tried not flushing a plant and flushing one in the same grow? Results? Also I was thinking after all it's curing that breaks chlorophyl into thc right? So what do you think? I was gonna flush for 1 week with plain water and molasses


ppl who grow in hydro flush
ppl who grow in soil think they have to flush but don't..i don't...some do..no prob
never tried a side by side
curing helps change non pychoactive chemicals to pyshoactive ones
chlorophyl breaks down regarless and has nothing to do with thc production.
molasses..yes to that. cut back on nutes in last week..yes to that...and no to flushing when u grow in soil...this is how i do it...other do it dif but my shit is 4k a lb and i dont hear anyone complaining


----------



## stumpjumper (Jul 21, 2011)

bamfrivet said:


> May I ask why you put it back into fresh soil? Or rather what your thought process behind putting it into fresh soil is, versus just flushing your plant once 2 weeks before harvest to get the salts out of the soil?


 I flush my dirt at least every 2 weeks through the whole grow. Maybe unneccessary but I've never had any soil problems or nute burn. 

I think there's a big difference comparing garden vegetables and weed. You aren't smoking the chemical compounds in a tomato. If your plant just sucked up a bunch of ferts, I think it could very well affect the way it tastes. I could be wrong... But I could be right.


----------



## bamfrivet (Jul 21, 2011)

My point is, if plants took the nutrients raw out of the ground and sent them straight up into the flowers or fruits of a plant, then you would taste the nutrients in the finished product, whether it be by eating it or smoking it. It's still just a plant people, remember that. It's not some alien life form that needs special care and diligent monitoring to keep it alive and produce good quality product. 

It's just a plant. Learn how plants work, it'll help you understand growing and what is actually going on with your plants rather than what people have been telling you is happening with your plants.


----------



## moodster (Jul 21, 2011)

yes man i flush mine for 10 days i flushed for 5 before and could taste the ferts


----------



## Harrekin (Jul 21, 2011)

I fed mine right up to two days before harvest,Canna nutes,mine taste of awesome...guess I must be a Jedi or something?


----------



## skit27 (Jul 22, 2011)

just to repeat The Truth About Flushing There have been a lot of debates on this forum about flushing and there is a lot of misunderstanding about it in general flushing has its place in gardening and in the real world (other than MJ forums) is referred to as leechingThis will be a long read but I hope it will set the record straight for everyone, this has been posted in several places here but I am putting to post together to clear things up a bit for all of youfirst a ditty from Sensi Seeds with links verifying,,,From an administrator at Sensi Seeds "Advanced - FlushingA critical look at preharvest flushingPre harvest flushing is a controversial topic. Flushing is supposed to improve taste of the final bud by either giving only pure water, clearing solutions or extensive flushing for the last 7-14 days of flowering. While many growers claim a positive effect, others deny any positive influence or even suggest reduced yield and quality. The theory of pre harvest flushing is to remove nutrients from the grow medium/root zone. A lack of nutrients creates a deficiency, forcing the plant to translocate and use up its internal nutrient compounds. Nutrient fundamentals and uptake: A good read about plant nutrition can be found here. Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process. The major nutrient uptake processes are: 1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment. 2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis. http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html http://www.hort.wisc.edu/cran/Publications/2001 Proceedings/min_nutr.pdf The claim only chemical ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavor of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions. 3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis. http://acd.ucar.edu/~eholland/encyc6.html Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions: Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulfur is part of amino acids and proteins. Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon. Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is neeeded for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance. http://www.sidwell.edu You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other. Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant: Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so. The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly: Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins. http://www.sirinet.net Not all nutrient compounds are moveable within the plant. 1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem. Deficiency appears on old leaves first. 2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem. Deficiency appears on new leaves first. http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu Storage organelles: Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though. http://jeb.biologists.org.pdf Translocation: Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the translocation process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be translocated through the phloem. Immobile elements cant be translocated and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth. Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the rootzone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Translocation is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc. You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes dont serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first. Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved. For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins, most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth. Sulfur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen. Summary: Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well. The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldnt be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesnt sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with preharvest flushing. Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavour, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on unflushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or overfert and unproper drying/curing."Now with an actual botanical understanding of how this works we move on to yet another botanical proven fact that if plants are drowned, which occurs in nature in the form of floods they go into a survival fermentaion mode converting sugars into alcohol I am reposting my ditty on harvesting and curing so you can see the evidence of this,,,,,,,,,,,,Harvesting, Drying and Curing, A Research Study The first word we used for this research was Oxidation, the second word is Fermentation as the fermentation process is what makes "the cure" work so understanding the fermentation process is very important.Here at RIU there is a thread that includes a cut and paste from a book by Mel and Ed you all know I like Mels book I am not gonna paste it here as it is fairly long and this will be long enough as it is, but this same info appears on most every MJ forum and seems to be the basis for how we all cure today. It seems from my research that this was originally based on how tobaco is cured and we will get into that later, here is the RIU link to this info I advise you go read it then come back,,,,,,,,Harvesting Curing Drying - Take Back the KnowledgeThere is an old hippie growers myth that says to soak the roots in water for 3 to 10 days before harvest this is not to be confused with the flush that everyone talks about (you all know I don't flush before harvest, I flush always) the tip/myth is supposed to improve the quality of our smoke. I have to admit that I never paid it much attention until now because I have now proven it is not a myth and has some scientific validation. What it amounts to is a way to start the cure prior to harvest while the plant is still alive. This is an incredible find as far as I am concerned and I can not wait to try it. what it amounts to is starving the plant of oxygen by drowning it, if in hydro take away the bubbles or spray fill the tank with water and wait, if in a pot either continuously water it (keep it wet/soaked) or stick the pot in a bigger bucket of water.I need to add some background info as I'm getting ahead of myself, most of you know that if you add sugar and yeast together it ferments into alcohol giving off CO2. The basic definition of Fermentation is the act of breaking down sugars into alcohol and our plants do this internally thru a natural process even while growing. The act of fermentation is a oxidation/reduction process (explained in prior post) just as most plant functions seem to be. Also please be aware that N is needed for proper fermintation to take place.Here is the info I found verifying that this old hippie myth is real,,,,,MrMistery wrotejulesPlants use photosynthesis to make sugars out of water, CO2 and sunlight. But a plant cell (like any other cell) cannot use sugars for their cellular processes, it needs to break down the sugars and make ATP. Basically, the only difference between humans and plants in this chapter is that plants make their own sugars, while we get ours from food. But we still both need to use those sugars, and we do that through cellular respiration. @douglebodFermentation is strictly defined as any way of anaerobically degrade pyruvic acid and recycle NAD+ to keep glycolysis going. You can then categorize this process as lactic acid fermentation (where pyruvate accepts electrons from NADH directly and becomes lactate), alcoholic fermentation (where pyruvate is first decarboxylated to acetaldehyde which then accepts electrons from NADH to become ethanol) and others (which are much more obscure). So technically, human cells are able to carry out lactic acid fermentation. Liver cells also have the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase (responsible for ethanol formation in yeast and other fungi), but we use it in the reverse direction so to speak to get rid of any alcohol which we consume by converting it to pyruvate. Plants however, can carry out alcoholic fermatation. They don't normally do it, because plants are usually in contact with oxygen. However, if you flood the root of a plant for about a week the cells are starved of oxygen, and because of this they will start carrying out alcoholic fermentation to survive. -Andreivery truethat is what my bio textbook says.just to complete the last partin alcoholic pathway ethanol forms a waste while the lactate formed in the lactate pathway can be broken down further. that is what leads to the oxygen debtfound here,http://www.biology-online.org/biolog...bout16671.htmland,Alcoholic Fermentation In PlantsBy the following, which we find in the London Gardener's Chronicle, it will be seen that the discovery is somewhat akin to those of Prof. Burrill and others in this country:"When plants are deprived of oxygen gas it appears that alcohol is formed in all their tissues without the aid of any ferment. If a vegetable cell containing sugar be cut off from its supply of oxygen - be suffocated, in fact - the sugar it contains becomes broken up or changed into carbonic acid, alcohol, and other products. Moreover, the various alcoholic ferments only produce their effects under the same conditions. Alcoholic fermentation, then, depends solely on the suffocation of a living cell containing sugar. Starting from these ascertained facts, M. Van Tieghem, in a recent number of the Annales Agronomiques, alludes to a peculiar disease in apple trees due to a suffocation of the roots, followed by the production of alcohol in their tissues. On microscopic examination the tissues were found healthy, except the medullary rays, the cells of which, instead of containing starch or sugar, contained brown oily globules, the residue left after the formation of the alcohol, which latter is diffused throughout the root, tinging the cells of a characteristic brown color, and giving rise to an easily detected alcoholic odor.Judging from these appearances what was the nature of the disease, M. Van Tieghem made inquiries as to the character of the soil, and from this, as well as the fact that the season had been extremely wet, his diagnosis was confirmed, and he in consequence prescribed efficient drainage as the remedy for the disease, and with good effect.found here,http://chestofbooks.com/gardening-ho...In-Plants.htmlone morehttp://www.cliffsnotes.com/study_gui...eId-23703.htmlI am giving you this info first as it relates to doing something prior to the actual harvest chop. The rest of what I found will bring everything that we find already posted in the harvest forum to a hopefully better understanding.We as MJ growers have modified/refined the basic knowledge of curing and fermentation of other plants due to the fact that our buds are not leaves and are therefore more subceptable to mold but the basic premise is the same, we don't add to much heat because it is known to degrade THC. We don't maintain higher humidity levels to avoid mold. The piling of the plants to induce fermentation is the same concept that makes composting work and for us home growers this is why we use a paper bag or cardboard box because it creates a scaled down compost/fermentation chamber, with this in mind pay great attention to why it is necessary to check often and rotate/rearrange the buds during this part of the process. Also know that this process will also continue once you put your buds into jars.I also want to point out that while it is easier to trim your buds before drying that leaving the leafs on and hanging the plant allows the leafs to dry formed around the bud to protect it from various things most importantly oxidation which we know degrades the THC. It also allows the buds to dry more slowly which is what we truely want to happen.My friend Shrubs did this on his second harvest, now I know why.Please remember that patience is a virtue the slower they dry the better they will be,,,,,,,,period. To many growers are in a hurry and as a result speed things up once you read all of the info I am about to present you will see what I am saying is true as I have (yes I have read all of it) Next I am going to share several MJ specific links about harvesting & curing as more heads are always better than one and the whole of all of them put together creates a pretty solid picture for us to consider as we try to improve our techniques. a couple of them even explain how to add flavors in case anyone wants to experiment a bit.Here they are in no particular orderhttp://www.wietmeneer.nl/growing/haze.htmlhttp://forum.grasscity.com/harvestin...uana-more.htmlhttp://www.sky.org/data/grow/c21.htmlhttp://www.marijuanapassion.com/foru...p-Ed-Rosenthalhttp://www.420magazine.com/forums/ha...ng-curing.htmlhttp://forum.sensiseeds.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5836http://www.seedbankupdate.com/cure.htmI am including the following links because they explain how other plants are cured in various different ways for color and taste this info will not only help us to better understand the various processes but may offer ideas for future experiments that might create a better end product. what you will see is while the techniques vary a bit they are all very similar.Cacao (chocolate)http://www.allchocolate.com/understa...o_factory.aspxTeahttp://www.wtea.com/about-tea_growth.aspxhttp://the-leaf.org/issue 2/wp-con...age-layout.pdfTobaccohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco#Curinghttp://books.google.com/books?id=9c8...curing&f=falsehttp://www.cigars4dummies.com/tobacc...ng/drying.htmlhttp://books.google.com/books?id=4so...curing&f=falsehttp://chestofbooks.com/health/mater...Tinctures.htmlhttp://books.google.com/books?id=A1I...curing&f=falselots of other plantshttp://bookshop.cabi.org/Uploads/Boo...1845933562.pdfWe're almost finished, I found a couple more things that I know will spark your DIY talents for technique tweaking LOLHere is a homemade drying chamberhttp://www.coffinails.com/curing_tobacco.htmlhere is a homemade fermentation chamberhttp://www.instructables.com/id/Toba...er-for-cigars/in the comments section they mention an egg incubator that has adjustable heat and humidity for around $70, here it ishttps://www.gqfmfg.com/store/comersu...?idCategory=29#and that brings us to the end of my research. I spent about 20 hours on all of this but you should be able to follow it all in just 2 or 3 since I was going thru 100's of pages to find the ones I have postedI hope that everyone that reads this comes away with a better understanding of how it all works and that as a result we all have better herb to enjoy in the futureHappy HarvestingLots of us here that follow this technique have had excellent results and have found that an extended dark period of 3~4 days speeds up the drowning/fermentation processLet the discussion begin


----------



## woodsusa (Jul 22, 2011)

Wow, thank you skit27. That was a lot of reading but well worth it. I have yet to get to the links you provided but I most certainly will read all of them. So much to learn...


----------



## DrFever (Jul 22, 2011)

like i said earlier flushing and or leaching should be done when you vegged your plant for a long period of time in transition into flowering to remove any salt build up prior to flowering the truth peeps i beleive flushing in hydro prob is a good idea in soil if you have all the micro nutrients,, amino acids etc most of nutrients should be broken down i believe that lowering not just stopping your nutrient schedule might be a good idea but yes starving your plants last few weeks in a no no. Now coming to the taste and smoking abilities of your grow it all comes down to proper drying and curing of your buds PERIOD You probably don't want to smoke marijuana that is harsh and bad tasting. If you do not take time to dry the bud, you will not get the best possible smell and taste your crop is capable of producing. Proper drying and curing will also ensure maximum potency of the marijuana you have grown. Marijuana is not potent just after harvest. Some of the THC is in a non-psychoactive acidic form. Drying marijuana the right way will convert the non-psychoactive acidic compounds into psychoactive THC Proper curing will bring out the tastes prob 90 percent of growers dont dry properly then they wonder why there buds taste bad It will take at least a week or two to dry the crop with temperatures between 65-75 degrees F and relative humidity between 45%-55%. You will know when the marijuana is dry if the stems snap or break (rather than fold) when they are bent. Try smoking a small bud (1/2 gram or less) in a joint to be sure it is dry enough.At this time, small buds will be dry enough to smoke. But larger buds should be cured (slow dried) to ensure that the marijuana is as potent and tasty as possible. If necessary, you can set aside buds that are less than 1/2 gram for smoking, while larger buds cure. The cure lasts a week or two. The aim of what you are doing is evenly finishing the slow dry process, so that mold will not grow when the buds are stored long term. Also, by the end of the cure, any remaining inactive THC will be converted to active THC (that increases potency).


----------



## djruiner (Jul 22, 2011)

hey skit...great copy and paste of another persons thread...props


----------



## Trie (Jul 31, 2011)

No flush = black ash sore throat
Flush = white ash smooth smoking


----------



## djruiner (Jul 31, 2011)

Trie said:


> No flush = black ash sore throat
> Flush = white ash smooth smoking


prove it.....


----------



## doser (Jul 31, 2011)

I need to make this decision within the week. It makes sense to me to flush with the last watering. Not much if any sooner


----------



## woodsusa (Jul 31, 2011)

Well I didn't flush my GDPs after all. The taste is great the effects stupendous. I'm still not sure of which way to go, but it seems like curing has a lot to do with it. The other plants that were kind of harst tasting have now mellowed out nicely after curing a while.


----------



## Trie (Aug 1, 2011)

huhhhh ulot are crazy so y does it tell u to flush in organic grow charts and u must not llike the taste of sugars that are held in the plant until u flush them out which equals white ash and not harsh black unflushed ash if u think u dont dont but im telling u frm experience i advice u to flush if u dont then ur wont taste the full effect and taste look at the bio bizz range for etc flush 4 at least 1 week mimumum..post bak


----------



## moodster (Aug 1, 2011)

true that is if you are flushing organics you definate shud be flushing chem ferts i do


----------



## woodsusa (Aug 1, 2011)

doser said:


> I need to make this decision within the week. It makes sense to me to flush with the last watering. Not much if any sooner


That's kind of how I feel.


----------



## htroff420 (Aug 1, 2011)

Trie said:


> huhhhh ulot are crazy so y does it tell u to flush in organic grow charts and u must not llike the taste of sugars that are held in the plant until u flush them out which equals white ash and not harsh black unflushed ash if u think u dont dont but im telling u frm experience i advice u to flush if u dont then ur wont taste the full effect and taste look at the bio bizz range for etc flush 4 at least 1 week mimumum..post bak


Theirs this concept in the world it's called marketing. If people are dumb enough to believe you need to flush and are willing to spend $20 bucks to buy some fluid why not sell it?!

And I would love for you to post your notes from this experiment you had with flushing and not. I have mine if you need to see...


----------



## Dubbz0r (Aug 1, 2011)

I'm a few weeks away from harvest and I hadn't decided whether to flush my plants, until tonight. I've read a great deal of information on flushing or not flushing for the last two months, and I've heard both sides. I know that plants don't actually eat NPK, so how those chemicals enter the plant doesn't make sense to me. This alone leads me towards not flushing... but

Yesterday I bought an 1/8 of Larry OG Kush. I asked the guy if he flushed or didn't flush. He said he flushed for 9 days. If this weed was flushed for 9 days then I will not be flushing. This shit is harsh as hell. The buzz is great but damn. First hit I was coughing my lung out onto the floor. The ash is just about pure black. He also claimed it was cured for 3+weeks. It smells good, great buzz but smokes like shit. Me no flush.


----------



## lotsOweed (Aug 1, 2011)

Dubbz0r said:


> I'm a few weeks away from harvest and I hadn't decided whether to flush my plants, until tonight. I've read a great deal of information on flushing or not flushing for the last two months, and I've heard both sides. I know that plants don't actually eat NPK, so how those chemicals enter the plant doesn't make sense to me. This alone leads me towards not flushing... but
> 
> Yesterday I bought an 1/8 of Larry OG Kush. I asked the guy if he flushed or didn't flush. He said he flushed for 9 days. If this weed was flushed for 9 days then I will not be flushing. This shit is harsh as hell. The buzz is great but damn. First hit I was coughing my lung out onto the floor. The ash is just about pure black. He also claimed it was cured for 3+weeks. It smells good, great buzz but smokes like shit. Me no flush.


You have that backwards, if anything that proves you want to flush. It was black and harshed most likely because it wasnt flushed long enough


----------



## Dubbz0r (Aug 1, 2011)

He flushed them for 9 days. Starving his plants for 9 days is why I'm thinking it smoked like shit. That's just me though.


----------



## dannyboy602 (Aug 2, 2011)

This will be on my to do list when winter arrives and im off for ten weeks. I'll do a side by side and find out myself


----------



## fabfun (Aug 2, 2011)

idk if it matters cuase i flush i mean we spend months caring for them so why not but that just my opinion not saying u got to or not


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

djruiner said:


> prove it.....


i agree with dj, i have pulled stuff without flushing just to test if it was ready and it burned clean white ash. that was even pulled at the height of my nutes in week 8...


----------



## Dubbz0r (Aug 2, 2011)

A friend of mine helping me with my grow didn't flush his plants simply cuz he ran out of time. Turns out it was a blessing in disguise. He was pissed that he had been flushing all along. The unflushed buds smoked better than his previous flushed buds. Needless to say he won't be flushing anymore.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

i've heard such mixed results i think it also depends on your nutrients as well.


----------



## samchesser (Aug 2, 2011)

In hydro, I drop ppm down to 500 for a few days and then flush for 3, it doesn't starve the plant and it gives the plant a few days to clean out had it been overfed. I wouldn't recommend pushing 1600ppm into the plant until harvest nor would I flush for an extended period of time. In soil, I can't see flushing for one week starving the plant. I wouldn't go any longer than that though. I fall more in the flushing isn't necessary if you are feeding correctly group of people but i do it for a few days just in case.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

samchesser said:


> In hydro, I drop ppm down to 500 for a few days and then flush for 3, it doesn't starve the plant and it gives the plant a few days to clean out had it been overfed. I wouldn't recommend pushing 1600ppm into the plant until harvest nor would I flush for an extended period of time. In soil, I can't see flushing for one week starving the plant. I wouldn't go any longer than that though. I fall more in the flushing isn't necessary if you are feeding correctly group of people but i do it for a few days just in case.


im usually flushing for 3-4 days with ph RO water and clearex


----------



## Beansly (Aug 2, 2011)

A lot of people talk about the taste which I guess is subjective, but weed that isn't flushed also doesn't burn right. Uncured weed crackles and pops in the bowl, and doesn't stay lit in a joint.
I agree that a good cure makes all the difference though.


----------



## fabfun (Aug 2, 2011)

Beansly said:


> A lot of people talk about the taste which I guess is subjective, but weed that isn't flushed also doesn't burn right. Uncured weed crackles and pops in the bowl, and doesn't stay lit in a joint.
> I agree that a good cure makes all the difference though.


and a fine manicure


----------



## Harrekin (Aug 3, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> im usually flushing for 3-4 days with ph RO water and clearex


 You know by pHing your "flushing water", you're actually helping your plants take up nutes instead of hindering it, right? 

Im pretty sure how it actually works is:
White Ash, Smooth Smoke = Slow dry, slow cure
Black Ash, Sore Throat = Quick/over dry, (now pointless at this stage) cure.

The black ash is from unbroken down complex carbs/sugars like starch, its got nothing to do with nutes.

Flushing is for toilets, not for plants.


----------



## 408isthebay (Aug 3, 2011)

last 2 waterings with water for me..i almost always over nute the last few weeks, harvest about 5-6 days after the last dose of nutes unless the tips aren't burnt at all


----------



## sen.c (Aug 3, 2011)

Just water cure it and be done with it, smooth smoke every time.


----------



## kbo ca (Aug 3, 2011)

So you have everyone telling you their own opinion. I propose this solution; try flushing one of your plants, and don't flush another of the same type. Dry and cure them the same way and be the judge of it yourself. I personally flush my plants after trying this experiment myself


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 3, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> You know by pHing your "flushing water", you're actually helping your plants take up nutes instead of hindering it, right?
> 
> Im pretty sure how it actually works is:
> White Ash, Smooth Smoke = Slow dry, slow cure
> ...


i do that because i use clearex in my flush that has trace nutrients in it


----------



## fabfun (Aug 3, 2011)

kbo ca said:


> So you have everyone telling you their own opinion. I propose this solution; try flushing one of your plants, and don't flush another of the same type. Dry and cure them the same way and be the judge of it yourself. I personally flush my plants after trying this experiment myself


great ideal 
love seeing side by side results


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 3, 2011)

fabfun said:


> great ideal
> love seeing side by side results


that would be cool to see


----------



## fabfun (Aug 3, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> that would be cool to see


thats they only way to test things when they r under same circumstances just one thing different then u can find what works best


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 3, 2011)

totally agree thats what im doing with my nutrient test. same plants same room same soil everything just different nutes


----------



## fabfun (Aug 3, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> totally agree thats what im doing with my nutrient test. same plants same room same soil everything just different nutes


thats the best way to test when all factors r same except on element


----------



## LIVE2GRO (Jan 3, 2012)

Harrekin said:


> I fed mine right up to two days before harvest,Canna nutes,mine taste of awesome...guess I must be a Jedi or something?


wen i used Bio Canna i flushed 2 days before with no problems.. FoxFarms.. i flushed for 8 days then harvested and was good.. i was told by an older farmer that flushing causes the plant to sence that its going to die and it will push out more trichs.. .. but i think thats cause he over waters them the last week.. flushin every 2 days till harvest.. no matter wat.. then the night before... he flushes them each plant until there is barely any EC getting around 100ppm.. and then harvests the next morning right as the lights go on... and his bud is amazing.. everytime. i dont agree with starving them for 2 weeks.. u mite not see a huge difference in taste with the 2 week starve.. but i bet money that u see a big difference in yeild. !

im looking for a new apt to start up in again .. an wen i do im doing a test .. on each flower room 1 with a 3 day flush the last 4 days of there life i willl push 10 gallons of water for the 3 days.... and then let it dry out the 4th as much as it can .. and cut as the lights come on . .. and the other flower room i will be doing a 1 week flush .. wiht 1 week before i will be feeding like normal.. u guys will see a journal going up in a couple days.. sorry just switched my name and going to be trying to stay as security purposes.


----------



## Sunbiz1 (Jan 3, 2012)

LIVE2GRO said:


> wen i used Bio Canna i flushed 2 days before with no problems.. FoxFarms.. i flushed for 8 days then harvested and was good.. i was told by an older farmer that flushing causes the plant to sence that its going to die and it will push out more trichs.. .. but i think thats cause he over waters them the last week.. flushin every 2 days till harvest.. no matter wat.. then the night before... he flushes them each plant until there is barely any EC getting around 100ppm.. and then harvests the next morning right as the lights go on... and his bud is amazing.. everytime. i dont agree with starving them for 2 weeks.. u mite not see a huge difference in taste with the 2 week starve.. but i bet money that u see a big difference in yeild. !
> 
> im looking for a new apt to start up in again .. an wen i do im doing a test .. on each flower room 1 with a 3 day flush the last 4 days of there life i willl push 10 gallons of water for the 3 days.... and then let it dry out the 4th as much as it can .. and cut as the lights come on . .. and the other flower room i will be doing a 1 week flush .. wiht 1 week before i will be feeding like normal.. u guys will see a journal going up in a couple days.. sorry just switched my name and going to be trying to stay as security purposes.


This I'm looking forward to seeing, perhaps it will finally lay to rest the never ending flush debate.


----------



## Harrekin (Jan 3, 2012)

Sunbiz1 said:


> This I'm looking forward to seeing, perhaps it will finally lay to rest the never ending flush debate.


Yeah cos some guy flushing in his apartment grow is so scientific it'll just put it right to bed.


----------



## dannyboy602 (Jan 3, 2012)

I still cant stop laughing


----------



## cocakola (Jan 3, 2012)

I will be harvesting in a bout a week and im not going to flush but my roots are stained bad(in soiless 15 gal res) , I was thinking on doing a dark period for 24-48 hrs and just running plain un ph'd water in hopes of cleaning the roots some before the chop. Can a hydro grower tell me if super stained roots make a difference in final product ? But I do tend to agree with a "No" flush approach , I think a proper dry , cure and manicure(getting off all those tips) makes a lot of difference when it comes to herb. We shall see I hope I get it right.

Happy Growing!


----------



## Sunbiz1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Harrekin said:


> Yeah cos some guy flushing in his apartment grow is so scientific it'll just put it right to bed.


You apparently missed the sarcasm.


----------



## Harrekin (Jan 3, 2012)

cocakola said:


> I will be harvesting in a bout a week and im not going to flush but my roots are stained bad(in soiless 15 gal res) , I was thinking on doing a dark period for 24-48 hrs and just running plain un ph'd water in hopes of cleaning the roots some before the chop. Can a hydro grower tell me if super stained roots make a difference in final product ? But I do tend to agree with a "No" flush approach , I think a proper dry , cure and manicure(getting off all those tips) makes a lot of difference when it comes to herb. We shall see I hope I get it right.
> 
> Happy Growing!


You gonna be smoking the roots or something? Lol. 

And Sunbiz1...incase you didn't notice, tone of voice is transferred so well through the medium of reading...see what I just did there?


----------



## cocakola (Jan 3, 2012)

Lol no but I thought(thats what i get for thinking) being that my roots are stained it could have caused some lockout , cuz my ph flux and i've had a few issues with this grow(1st). Maybe not , thanks Harrekin...

Happy Growing!


----------



## Harrekin (Jan 4, 2012)

cocakola said:


> Lol no but I thought(thats what i get for thinking) being that my roots are stained it could have caused some lockout , cuz my ph flux and i've had a few issues with this grow(1st). Maybe not , thanks Harrekin...
> 
> Happy Growing!


If you're using hydro nutes alot of them contain dyes that can stain your roots. Not gonna lie tho, I don't and have not ever grown in anything but soil, but Iv researched hydro (decided it wasnt practical for the moment) and read alot of times of people notice root staining from hydro nute dyes. Just hope it helps.


----------



## OBMF (Jan 4, 2012)

I always thought the whole point of flushing was to starve the plant. You want to induce stress so that plant prioritizes and allocates all its energy to the bud. I've seen old time growers flush and the bud just gets bigger and more crystallized the last two weeks. No doubt flushing fucks up the roots pretty bad, as well as some foliage. But what you care for and really the real reason why you grow is the end result i.e. the beautiful bud you want and will produce. And hey, old time growers may not know the scientific reason why flushing necessarily works, but the bud we have all come to enjoy and love has come from YEARS they have grown and co-existed with the plant. Ed Rosenthal for life mofos!


----------



## Harrekin (Jan 4, 2012)

If flushing makes flowers bigger, why don't Tulip growers flush before harvest?


----------



## rocpilefsj (Jan 4, 2012)

Don't knock it till you try it is my argument... I flushed for years and years just because that is what I was always led to believe through what I read in books, even before I knew what the internet was lol. Two years ago I decided to try feeding right up until chopping based on some advice I had been given by some incredible growers on this site, and guess what? No dark ash, no harshness, no "crackling", tasted the exact same as the harvest before that and the harvest before that. All I am saying is to try it for yourself before simply dismissing it like I used to...


----------



## OBMF (Jan 4, 2012)

tulip flowers and bud from marijuana are biologically different. Maybe you have the misconception that just because the bud from marijuana is a flower that it the same as a tulip and therefore develops like a tulip (since that's what you essentially equated it too). a single tulip flower has both male and female parts while true sensimilla bud as you know comes from UN-pollinated FEMALE PLANTS and has hundreds of calyxes and stigmas. not only that but the flowers develop completely different. Marijuana has been cultivated for thousands of years by humans, and therefore the plant has been subjected to some crazy ass genetic selection. That's why it is believe to have somuch fucking thc now. Because we chose to breed the plants that crystalier that the others for thousands of years. So please do not compare weed to tulip flowers. That's just dumb. 
With marijuana you want the plant to produce as many calyx's and stigmas so that the get what I call, " all clusteredfucked together and shit" so that flower develops and GROWS (that means it increases in size :O) dense and large. The end result being the bud.


----------



## OBMF (Jan 4, 2012)

but I have to say I am very interested see some grow journals and see some growers who don't flush. what are the real effects of not flushing? I guess like rocpilefsj said, "...don't knock it till you try it".


----------



## rocpilefsj (Jan 4, 2012)

OBMF said:


> but I have to say I am very interested see some grow journals and see some growers who don't flush. what are the real effects of not flushing? I guess like rocpilefsj said, "...don't knock it till you try it".


Knock knock Lahey! I am by no means an expert, one of my favorite sayings is "I can't always tell you what to do, but I can almost for sure tell you what NOT to do!" I have tried many things when it comes to growing, some with great results, some with disastrous results.


----------



## lordjin (Jan 4, 2012)

OBMF said:


> but I have to say I am very interested see some grow journals and see some growers who don't flush. what are the real effects of not flushing? I guess like rocpilefsj said, "...don't knock it till you try it".


Right here. I don't flush. It's not necessary and in fact hurts your plants.

My smoke is strong and sweet to the very last white-ash hit.

I used to flush and saw how it negatively impacted my crop. So I stopped. Now you couldn't pay me to flush.


----------



## OBMF (Jan 4, 2012)

is there more yield? I'm actually really interested. Did you see a significant increase in quality i.e. more crystals? Or is it because you tend to regenerate?


----------



## lordjin (Jan 4, 2012)

OBMF said:


> is there more yield? I'm actually really interested. Did you see a significant increase in quality i.e. more crystals? Or is it because you tend to regenerate?


The impact wasn't in seen in yield but rather bud quality as reflected in the general health of the plants at harvest.

The last stretch of time before harvest is when the plants are producing into their peak potency. And so this is the worst possible time to cut out nutrient.

Proper translocation of the green in the leaves is a natural process of the plant that is promoted by the correct dosage of the right ratio of NPK at the right time. Flushing doesn't force the plant to do anything but feed on itself for lack of available resources... This hurts potency plain and simple.

But bear in mind that I utilize an accelerated hydro system. What I said doesn't necessarily hold true for soil growers.


----------



## Devlin1242 (Jun 15, 2020)

Here are some controlled lab tests that prove there is no positive affect of flushing on your final product or for any desired outcome. There are also blind tests where all participants preferred the unfinished product. I ended up with the same results with my last grow for genetic testing purposes. Here are some of the tests, check them out and give me some feedback.








New Research Shows Flushing Plants Before Harvest May Be Unnecessary


In a blind taste test, researchers have found that many prefer cannabis that has not been flushed before harvest.




hightimes.com












Flushing Cannabis - the science | Manic Botanix


The Flushing Cannabis Myth Exposed Flushing – running water only with no nutrients for the last 10 -14 days of flower – has long been argued to improve the quality of cannabis.




medteknutrients.com.au


----------



## Devlin1242 (Jun 15, 2020)

Devlin1242 said:


> Here are some controlled lab tests that prove there is no positive affect of flushing on your final product or for any desired outcome. There are also blind tests where all participants preferred the unfinished product. I ended up with the same results with my last grow for genetic testing purposes. Here are some of the tests, check them out and give me some feedback.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Proven that flushing only starves your plants and does not have any added affect on THC, CBD, or trichome production.


----------

