# The Brummie Bubbler



## neo12345 (Mar 24, 2014)

The Brummie Bubbler is a drip fed DWC system, the name is supposedly to have come from the original company making these posting most of them to the Birmingham area of the UK. 



To build this system you will need the following items, these can be bought separately or as a kit from good hydroponic shops for around £50.

1 x 90L Black plastic utility tank
1 x 15L Subsurface tray
1 x Mimouse water pump
1 x Twin outlet air pump
2 x 50mm Round air stones
2 x 1m 4mm Air line
1 x 15L Clay pebbles
1 x 1m of 13mm flexi hose
1 x 13mm T joint
1 x 13 Elbow joint

Start by drilling holes in the bottom of the smaller 15L subsurface tray (inside red area), you will need lot's of holes all over the bottom of the tray for the roots to grow through. Use a drill bit that is smaller than the size of the clay pebbles as you don't want them falling through the holes, I think clay pebbles are 8-10mm so I used a 6.5mm drill to drill my holes. 



I also drilled a line of holes along the base of the container, and you can drill as many holes as you like but the idea is to encourage your roots to grow downwards towards the nutrient solution. Trust me by the time you drilled the base you won't want to start drilling the sides too!

Once the holes have been drilled take the tray outside and fill with clay pebbles, give these a very good rinse with a hosepipe as you will get a lot of grit and dust come out of the bottom. Flush with clean water until it starts running clear. If the wife is not at home this can be done in the kitchen sink or bath, I did hear about someone washing the clay pebbles in the washing machine but you could be in big trouble if she comes home early and catches you doing this!!

Fill with pebbles but not right to the top, leave some space so that the pebbles don't wick water out of the system and onto your floor! Your tank should now look like this but the smaller tray will be full of pebbles:



Now place the water pump on the bottom of the 90L tank, and cut a length of the 13mm hose that will run from the pump and up to the drip ring. Cut this a couple of inches longer than you think you will need, it can be adjusted afterwards but you can't add hose back on if you cut it too short! It's useful at this stage to get a bowl of hot water to dip the ends of the 13mm pipe in as the pipes slip on to the fittings much easier, and it helps to mold the drip ring.

Attach the pipe to the water pump and fit the 90 degree elbow at the other end, then make the drip ring by softening up a length of 13mm pipe in water and use the 13mm T joint to create a circle for the drip ring. The drip ring will need to be drilled on one side with a 3mm drill bit to allow the water to drip, I drill the holes approx 1" apart. 

Then attach the drip ring to hose coming from the pump with a small section of 13mm pipe. The dripper system is open to modification, which is the first thing I did as I saw a better way of doing it but I will go in to more detail later. 

Drop in your air stones and your system should now look something like this:


Fill the system with water to just underneath the tank with the clay pebbles, and you're ready to switch on the water pump and air pump to check everything is working fine. The dripper ring should be dripping water on to the clay pebbles and the airstones should be bubbling away, it's worth checking the airstones are working correctly as I've had a few that were blocked on one side.

That's it, you are ready to roll. I'll add some hints and tips and show a grow using this system, and will welcome any questions.


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## Growan (Mar 24, 2014)

Nice tutorial, very thorough.


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## neo12345 (Mar 25, 2014)

Thanks Growan.


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## neo12345 (Mar 25, 2014)

I can fit two of these tanks comfortably side by side in a 1.2m x 1.2m tent.



If you look closely you will see that the two tanks and the air pump are sitting on 3" thick foam, this is used to stop the vibration through the floor from the bubbler system. Luckily I'm using mine on a concrete floor but you can still get a humming from them, this is 10 times worse if you have a wooden floor and if you live in a semi or terraced house this hum can travel into your neighbours house and the last thing you want is them asking if you can hear something humming! So get some foam down before you start installing your system or some other kind of insulation or anti vibration mats.

You may also notice the silver lids my tanks now have, some kits come with lids and others don't. You need to keep the nutrient solution in the dark to help to reduce the chances of nasty things growing in it, so I made my own with some bits I had just laying around.

I used some cardboard to make the lids and covered them in some mylar I had left over, then sealed it all up with some foil tape. Make sure that your lids are water tight as the one side facing the nutrient solution will get fairly damp and you don't want the cardboard going all soggy. You can use some lightproof black plastic sheeting which is available from most stationers or craft shops.



You can see from this picture how I modified the drip ring, as I found their suggestion was a ring that was either too big like the first ring or too small like the second so I incorporated the two to give a nice even delivery around the plant and roots for now and in the future as the plant gets bigger. 

The plants have been in the system for 2 days now and are starting to perk up after their transplanting shock.


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## neo12345 (Mar 26, 2014)

*Day 4.*

The plants seem to be enjoying their new home.



I use the dripper system sporadically for the first week, to encourage the roots to search out that lovely nutrient solution that it craves. It seems to enjoy that and has grown a 12" root by the 4th day!!



The plant on the right was supercropped quite early on in it's life with a technique that I call the Fidi technique.

It stands for F**k I dropped it, which is what I did whilst watering it one day. It landed plant side down, obviously!! This is a highly advanced technique and I would not recommend this if you are a newbie to growing.


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## dr green dre (Mar 26, 2014)

Nice write up there neo.. I've been using this system for sometime now ,and they always produce some impressive trees. I think growell made up the name for them as that seems only place selling it in brum like that.. There like marmite around here you either love them or hate them  .. 
I noticed your air pump is lower than the tubs so if you lose power the water will syphon back in the pump ..its happened a few times to me - either it starts getting noisier or stops working.. 

Whats that strains your running in there anyway? Got quite alot of pics in these tubs if you want to look through the thread .. growell have a tent net that would suit that set up fine too if you was going to scrog those plants..

Good luck with this ..

Dgd


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## neo12345 (Mar 27, 2014)

Good to hear from you Doc, I was beginning to think I was just talking to myself!! I think Growell just copied the name, I can't for the life of me remember the name of the company that first coined the term.

I've been using them for a while too but couldn't really find much on this forum about them so I decided to start this thread, I was hoping people would join in and post pics of their systems/grows and we could share tips and information about using them and what results they are getting. So please feel free to add anything you like on here, and that goes for other people too.

This was my first attempt using it so it's already completed but I thought I'd make it sort of like a journal rather than just post the results up straight away, just to keep a bit of interest in the thread. 

I am using non return valves on the air pump which you can't see in the pictures, great tip though as they are very important from a safety point of view. You'd be surprised how many people I know don't actually use them, but then again I know people that have overloaded extension sockets on the floors of their grows with all that water around!! 

The strain is Big Bud, a cross between Northern Lights #1 and Super Skunk #1. There will be some topping/scrogging action too, for those that like their ladies being submissive!!

I like your hash pics, even though they do remind me of what my neighbours cat keeps leaving on my lawn!! I miss the good old hash days, it's sad that the yoof of today won't get to experience 'hot rocks' and the alertness needed as they dropped in your lap. 

What nutrients do you use with your system? Feel free to post some pics up and any information you think might help people, why do you think they are marmite why do you think people don't like them? I find it a very easy system to use with some fantastic growth rates, and great results from it.


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## dr green dre (Mar 27, 2014)

> =neo12345;10369282]Good to hear from you Doc, I was beginning to think I was just talking to myself!! I think Growell just copied the name, I can't for the life of me remember the name of the company that first coined the term.
> 
> I've been using them for a while too but couldn't really find much on this forum about them so I decided to start this thread, I was hoping people would join in and post pics of their systems/grows and we could share tips and information about using them and what results they are getting. So please feel free to add anything you like on here, and that goes for other people too.





> Cool neo.. yeah i haven't seen much info on here regarding those tubs either i did take a few pics of the setup before i ran it in one of my earlier grows.. Nothing like your tutorial tough..





> This was my first attempt using it so it's already completed but I thought I'd make it sort of like a journal rather than just post the results up straight away, just to keep a bit of interest in the thread.
> 
> I am using non return valves on the air pump which you can't see in the pictures, great tip though as they are very important from a safety point of view. You'd be surprised how many people I know don't actually use them, but then again I know people that have overloaded extension sockets on the floors of their grows with all that water around!!
> 
> The strain is Big Bud, a cross between Northern Lights #1 and Super Skunk #1. There will be some topping/scrogging action too, for those that like their ladies being submissive!!


Yeah i've seen people do so weird stuff in there grow rooms too ..like life is nothing  ..I've a setup were there water was uncovered and the roots were growing up out the serimis in the sub tray..shocking ..
I guess thats why there like marmite as loads of people use them based on wild claims with out the basic know how and wonder why they don't get those 20+oz yeilds.. 
I think its a simple system too when you cover the basics , but i always seem to get root rot in one bucket ! thats what keep me from linking them into rdwc as thats where the yields are at imo.. Root rot isn't that hard to treat from you catch it early so its good to have so oxy+ about or you can go down the live bennies route but i haven't tried that myself.. Theres a thread on here about it -i'll come back with a link

The big bud should give you some huge colas in that tub..a bit Lst and all that ..i have'nt grown it myself but if its stretches a lot then i'd get a screen and scrog them hard i think you could fill out that whole tent that way with a even canopy..



> I like your hash pics, even though they do remind me of what my neighbours cat keeps leaving on my lawn!! I miss the good old hash days, it's sad that the yoof of today won't get to experience 'hot rocks' and the alertness needed as they dropped in your lap.


Thanks man ..that hash theres almost done now .. does look kinda shit  but smokes like fiyah.. Funny how all the none skunk smokers love it the most!! Hot rocks ...those were some days ..mainly on the wrong side of the wall .. were you could tell who got a parcel by a mans tracky or tshirt the next morning.. Funny thing not getting much rocks of these though..



> What nutrients do you use with your system? Feel free to post some pics up and any information you think might help people, why do you think they are marmite why do you think people don't like them? I find it a very easy system to use with some fantastic growth rates, and great results from it.


I've ran a few nutes threw this but at the moment im on Vitalink max range -grow bloom and buddy plus vitalink bio+ , big bud and bcuzz hydro booster were used in the last run. the current run will be done minus the big bud .. I don't feed the recomended dosage on the bottle as i find its too high for most strains i run... I learnt that less is more with dwc but i get burns every now and then as i do one big res for all plants..

Another tip is to have another 90ltr outside to feed and empty your pots from, you can take the current mini pump and attach a piece of hose pipe to it so you can change res and vice a versa for feeding plus you get the food mixed together/ph'd before it hits the roots.. Make things so much easier for me..

going to look for some pics that i've posted ..

Think this is one of the first i posted.. cheese

View attachment 3036356View attachment 3036357View attachment 3036358
Another early shot
View attachment 3036359View attachment 3036360

Some from the last early veg and roots in flower
 

sunshine daydream..


Cheese and cheeseXs from a while back


Gets decent yeilds when done right but its strain dependant too ..



dre


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## jtdubz (Mar 28, 2014)

Ooh I like this may have to look into switching once I get more funds. Looks clean easy and low maintenance.


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## neo12345 (Mar 29, 2014)

dr green dre said:


> Yeah i've seen people do so weird stuff in there grow rooms too ..like life is nothing  ..I've a setup were there water was uncovered and the roots were growing up out the serimis in the sub tray..shocking ..
> I guess thats why there like marmite as loads of people use them based on wild claims with out the basic know how and wonder why they don't get those 20+oz yeilds..
> I think its a simple system too when you cover the basics , but i always seem to get root rot in one bucket ! thats what keep me from linking them into rdwc as thats where the yields are at imo.. Root rot isn't that hard to treat from you catch it early so its good to have so oxy+ about or you can go down the live bennies route but i haven't tried that myself.. Theres a thread on here about it -i'll come back with a link


That's a good tip about having an extra tank to fill your nutrient reserve from, I actually bought a spare water pump and a length of hose so I can pump the old solution out of the tank and straight into the drain outside. Then I refill the tanks with a hosepipe. 

I've never fallen foul of the root rot either in any of my systems, touch wood. I change out the nutrient solution religiously every week on a sunday, and I check the ph everyday. The moment I see it rise wildly I change the solution using just fresh water which comes out at 6.8-6.9 anyway, and I add either some Hydrogen Peroxide (2ml per tank 24% solution) or some Rot Stop and let it run that for 24 hours before adding in nutes and adjusting ph. That seems to work as a preventative measure then it will remain stable again for a few weeks.

I also clean my air lines regularly with an h2o2 solution as this seems to be where the slime comes from, I can feel slime on them after a while and you can see the inside discolour with stuff growing inside them!

So I've never tried the beneficial tea either, unless you count a nice cup of PG Tips pyramid bag with milk and two sugars!

Awesome pictures, they really show what can be achieved using this system. Please feel free to post any more that you find, or any other information that other people may find useful. There must be more than just us two using this system?!


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## neo12345 (Mar 29, 2014)

*Day 8*

The ladies were topped today so they are looking a little shorter. The idea being that when the screen is added I can grow one of the tops towards the back of the tent and one towards the front, with the other branches filling in the other holes on the screen.

 

As you can see the ladies are settling in to their new homes nicely and are starting to grow.

Only 8 days in the system and more roots are now starting to appear through the bottom of the tray, the dripper system is now running 24/7 delivering fresh oxygenated water and nutrients to the root mass in the clay pebbles.


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## neo12345 (Mar 29, 2014)

jtdubz said:


> Ooh I like this may have to look into switching once I get more funds. Looks clean easy and low maintenance.


It's ever so simple JT, it takes 5 mins to check ph and ppm's and add some water if needed everyday. Then half an hour once a week to change out the tanks. That's it.

And you'll never get your hands dirty!

The growth rate is just outstanding, this is just six days growth! 

 View attachment 3037611


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## BenFranklin (Mar 29, 2014)

Why not just bend the top over while still young?


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## neo12345 (Mar 29, 2014)

BenFranklin said:


> Why not just bend the top over while still young?


Hi Ben and welcome,

the idea of topping them to grow in two different directions was to fill the screen out more evenly from front to back as I'm trying to grow the plants into a rectangle shape as there are two of them together, if you had just one plant in the middle of the tent I guess you could lst it and grow it outwards in every direction that would work pretty well too.


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## neo12345 (Mar 31, 2014)

*Day 10*

Just a quick update on the ladies. The scrog screen has been fitted as the plants are well established now and are growing quickly, I can now start to grow the plants flatter by tucking the growing tips under the screen. Some leaves were defoliated in the adding of this screen, so if you are of a nervous disposition then please look away now.

  

Some root porn.


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## neo12345 (Apr 7, 2014)

*Day 13*

The plants seem to have survived the defoliation and after just 3 days are continuing to grow, this is a pic from day 10 and today day 13:

  

There are no signs of stunted growth, in fact the plants seem to have doubled in size in just 3 days after the defoliation. The growing tips are starting to penetrate above the screen and will be ready to start tucking under over the next few days.


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## neo12345 (Apr 7, 2014)

*Day 17*

The plants have gone from this first picture to the second in just 15 days:

 

 
Considering the defoliation and topping they don't look in too bad a condition? There are lot's of growing tips already to start tucking under the screen, and the plants are growing very bushy in a nice domed shape.


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## UncleReemis (Apr 7, 2014)

Very nice looking Scrog and tutorial, Neo! :3


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## neo12345 (Apr 8, 2014)

UncleReemis said:


> Very nice looking Scrog and tutorial, Neo! :3


Thanks for stopping by Uncle.


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## neo12345 (Apr 10, 2014)

*Day 21*

The plants have been in the system for 3 weeks today, and are still growing with immense vigor. Still tucking under new shoots, the roots are starting to fly.


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## neo12345 (Apr 14, 2014)

*Day 24*

The plants are continuing to grow very quickly and I'm now tucking and plucking every three days, I tuck then let it grow back for two days then tuck again. 

I will tuck them one last time before switching to 12/12 in four days time, the plants will have been vegging for four weeks (28 days) by then. You may be thinking the plants aren't big enough yet, but trust me they will easily out grow this space using this system. If I let them veg for any longer then when they start flowering there won't be any way for me to get in the tent!! The roots are also coming along nicely.


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## neo12345 (Apr 20, 2014)

*Day 33

Day 4 Flower*

The plants were vegged for 28 days in total, then given 24 hours darkness. They have now had 4 days of 12/12 and are starting to explode with new growth, and I'm still tucking the growing tips under to spread the plant out.

I started to tuck and pluck before I remembered I needed to take some photo's!! So as you can see I already started at the front!

 

As you can see there is a big difference between now and nine days ago. The tucking under the screen is encouraging the plants to grow outwards instead of upwards, and the removal of the bigger fan leaves allows the light to penetrate to small growing tips which would normally be shaded. These will then grow rigorously and can be tucked under and spread out.

This was the plants 9 days ago as a comparison:

 
I start tucking from the front, removing big blocking leaves and finding new holes for growing tips. It can be quite daunting at first but you will soon get into the swing of it, and your plant will look something like this:

 

It looks like someone has just attacked them with a strimmer!! It may look like carnage when you finish but in just a couple of days it will be growing upwards again. I tend to tuck and then allow it 2 days to grow back and the tuck again, this is obviously strain dependent as is the length of time you continue to tuck.


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## moloud (Apr 20, 2014)

Shyyyt, lookin good. Blind as I am!!!


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## neo12345 (Apr 22, 2014)

moloud said:


> Shyyyt, lookin good. Blind as I am!!!


Thanks Moloud.


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## neo12345 (Apr 22, 2014)

*Day 35*

*Day 6 Flower*

Just 2 days after their tuck and pluck and they are back to normal and growing happily like nothing ever happened.

 

 

 

 

 

Time for some more tucking, and for those who like it enjoy the root porn!!


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## neo12345 (Apr 25, 2014)

*Day 38

Day 9 Flower*

Just a quick update, the plants are starting to fill the screen nicely now with plenty of growing tips.


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## Commander Strax (Apr 25, 2014)

Nice grow, great read, thanks


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## Nizza (Apr 25, 2014)

props nice setup +rep ^_^


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## neo12345 (Apr 28, 2014)

Thanks for the comments guys.


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## neo12345 (Apr 28, 2014)

*Day 41

Day 12 Flower
*
I took some photo's with the lights off to show how lush and green they are, the plants really seem to like this system. The plants are starting to fill the space nicely now and are touching the walls of the tent, I took a couple of shots with the lights on which I think makes it easier to see the potential budsites.

No sign of proper flowers yet but they are still growing fast, and having to be tucked under. I think I stopped tucking about now and let them grow for a bit as you need some upwards growth from the screen to grow your bud on.


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## Growan (Apr 28, 2014)

Bit leafy looking, Neo. 

Very nice. Looking really healthy.


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## neo12345 (Apr 29, 2014)

Thanks Growan.

Those damn leaves, you keep pulling them off and they just keep growing back again!!


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## Growan (Apr 29, 2014)

Bastard foliage... I've been treating all my cuttings to poor lighting, lst and removal of 'greedy' big leaves. When they finally get their full light quota, I think they'll love it. They look a bit like cabbages waiting to sprint!


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## neo12345 (May 1, 2014)

Growan said:


> I've been treating all my cuttings to poor lighting,


LED or CFL? lol


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## neo12345 (May 1, 2014)

*Day 43

Day 14 Flower*

Still spreading out, the growing tips are changing colour now and showing the first signs of flowering.

 

 

 

For the root porn lovers I think these were the last pics as it was difficult to get the camera in there now, didn't want to risk dropping it in my nutrient solution!!

 

 

Happy roots, happy plant.


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## neo12345 (May 4, 2014)

Day 46

Day 17 Flower

The plants have pretty much filled out the whole tent now, and are starting to bud nicely. There is a prize for anyone who guesses the number of colas.


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## jtdubz (May 4, 2014)

16 main colas


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## neo12345 (May 5, 2014)

jtdubz said:


> 16 main colas


Haha, hows it going JT? How is your grow, haven't seen any updates on your journal?


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## jtdubz (May 5, 2014)

I've actually been quite busy :/ i started flower on the 15th the lower leaves are yellowing I think due to mag deficiency but who knows ill try and get some pictures up later. I've been following yours though. I gotta get something like what your using. Looks quite easy


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## dr green dre (May 5, 2014)

neo12345 said:


> Day 46
> 
> Day 17 Flower
> 
> ...


Looking good neo.. can see a whole load of colas there.. nice job..


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## neo12345 (May 5, 2014)

jtdubz said:


> I've actually been quite busy :/ i started flower on the 15th the lower leaves are yellowing I think due to mag deficiency but who knows ill try and get some pictures up later. I've been following yours though. I gotta get something like what your using. Looks quite easy


These are ever so easy to use and give great results, a mate of mine has just finished his first go using these with 3 plants in a 2m x 1m tent. He was getting some very bad advice and ran into loads of problems but still managed to average over 13 ounces per plant, which is pretty good for a first attempt I think from that space. He knows he can do better now he has seen the light! 

Get some pics of your plants up, it might not be as bad as you think!


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## neo12345 (May 5, 2014)

dr green dre said:


> Looking good neo.. can see a whole load of colas there.. nice job..


Thanks Dre, what are you growing at the moment as I know you use these systems? Feel free to bang up some pics.


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## dr green dre (May 6, 2014)

neo12345 said:


> Thanks Dre, what are you growing at the moment as I know you use these systems? Feel free to bang up some pics.


Just set back up the coco room and Will be doing the BBs in the next few days .. not 100%on what's going in them but it'll either be SLh , ssh ,spice ,cheeses or sageX#6... 

I'll pop some pics when there setup neo ..
Dre


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## neo12345 (May 8, 2014)

*Day 51

Day 22 Flower*


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## jtdubz (May 8, 2014)

Hey neo I posted some newer pictures up


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## neo12345 (May 11, 2014)

*Day 55

Day 26 Flower*


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## neo12345 (May 16, 2014)

*Day 61

Day 32 Flower*


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## Growan (May 16, 2014)

still lookin sweet neo. Leafy, but sweet...


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## Growan (May 16, 2014)

What's your screen made of, neo?_


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## neo12345 (May 16, 2014)

Growan said:


> still lookin sweet neo. Leafy, but sweet...


Thanks mate, I don't know why people think I hate leaves. As you can see there are plenty of leaves for growing still.

The screen is made from a high tech plastic 2" square garden screen, it's nice and thick so the plants can't force it back up. The frame is again high tech 2" waste water tubing with various fitting to make the frame, thrown together with string and tie wraps. 

NASA did ask if they could use the same design but I had to decline their offer.


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## a senile fungus (May 16, 2014)

This looks cool and easy to maintain. Subbed and seeing if I can incorporate this design into my blueprints. Thanks neo


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## neo12345 (May 17, 2014)

a senile fungus said:


> This looks cool and easy to maintain. Subbed and seeing if I can incorporate this design into my blueprints. Thanks neo


Thanks Senile, after 3 goes using these I swapped my whole system out. I was wanting to change out my flood and drain system so that I could move to a more perpetual grow, rather than producing a massive amount every 3-4 months I now produce 4 plants the same as these every 3 weeks.

I did consider the smaller systems like the 5 gal pots, but then realised the logistics of having to change out 24 lot's of nutrients every 5-7 days would have been a nightmare!! Now I just take the lids off and drop in a more powerful pump attached to a length of hose to pump out the water, then just refill with the hose. Nice and simple! 

They hold approx 35-40 litres of water to bring it up to the bottom of the inner pot, which I think helps having a larger body of water as it's harder to heat up. The dripper constantly recirculates the water, and as an added bonus helps to aerate the water with the waterfall effect running through the clay pebbles. Plus the roots in the tray are getting a constant supply of fresh nutrients which they seem to thrive on.

It did get me thinking of bigger systems too, I'm thinking 1 plant started indoors after Christmas and vegging for 4 months until April then moving outside. Veg outside for another 3 months outdoors in a 1000 litre tank!! Finished by the end of September by calling in some tree surgeons to cut it down!! 

I can dream can't I? lol


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## Munzi23 (May 22, 2014)

Hi just bought this system can't wait to go any advise what can I expect I have two under two 600w I top twice and lst any info and advise ?


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## Munzi23 (May 22, 2014)

neo12345 said:


> Thanks Senile, after 3 goes using these I swapped my whole system out. I was wanting to change out my flood and drain system so that I could move to a more perpetual grow, rather than producing a massive amount every 3-4 months I now produce 4 plants the same as these every 3 weeks.
> 
> I did consider the smaller systems like the 5 gal pots, but then realised the logistics of having to change out 24 lot's of nutrients every 5-7 days would have been a nightmare!! Now I just take the lids off and drop in a more powerful pump attached to a length of hose to pump out the water, then just refill with the hose. Nice and simple!
> 
> ...


Any info


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## neo12345 (May 23, 2014)

Munzi23 said:


> Hi just bought this system can't wait to go any advise what can I expect I have two under two 600w I top twice and lst any info and advise ?


Hi Munzi, welcome to the BB club!

Feel free to post some pics of your set up, it's good to see what other people are doing. What strain are you growing?

My advice to you would be to buy a good pair of trimmers, as you'll need them!

Have you considered scrogging, this will increase your yield greatly and really make the most of the system?


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## Munzi23 (May 23, 2014)

Awaiting some cheese clones !!!! 

I have thought about scrogging but a friend of mine runs these system he vegs for 3 weeks tops multiple times and then put nets up for support and constantly pulls 18 minimum I hope I come near that


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## neo12345 (May 24, 2014)

Obviously your yield will depend on strain and your ability to keep the environment right, but keep them happy and you will be very pleased with the results. That's why I said get some decent trimmers, as you'll be doing a lot of that!! lol

If you follow what he does then you will easily pull double figures. Keep us posted with some pics, this was my first time using the system too so we can show how easy it is to get decent results as a newbie. 

Check out DocDre's grows too as he has grown lot's of different strains using the bubbler.


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## neo12345 (May 24, 2014)

*Day 66

Day 37 Flower
*


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## skunkd0c (May 24, 2014)

looking great and well dialed in 
do you remove any leaves ?


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## neo12345 (May 24, 2014)

skunkd0c said:


> looking great and well dialed in
> do you remove any leaves ?


Thanks Doc.

Yes I did, but shhh don't tell anyone. Don't want this turning into a defoliation thread.

Both plants had leaves removed, but the plant on the right had a harder defoliation with more leaves removed than the plant on the left throughout it's life.


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## Munzi23 (May 24, 2014)

neo12345 said:


> Obviously your yield will depend on strain and your ability to keep the environment right, but keep them happy and you will be very pleased with the results. That's why I said get some decent trimmers, as you'll be doing a lot of that!! lol
> 
> If you follow what he does then you will easily pull double figures. Keep us posted with some pics, this was my first time using the system too so we can show how easy it is to get decent results as a newbie.
> 
> Check out DocDre's grows too as he has grown lot's of different strains using the bubbler.


Do you really need a res heater as have no more sockets lol and it's quite hot in my groom specially now summer round the corner


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## skunkd0c (May 24, 2014)

neo12345 said:


> Thanks Doc.
> 
> Yes I did, but shhh don't tell anyone. Don't want this turning into a defoliation thread.
> 
> Both plants had leaves removed, but the plant on the right had a harder defoliation with more leaves removed than the plant on the left throughout it's life.


cool mate, i think the term defoliation is too ambiguous 
i would describe what you have done as more canopy management or pruning
something i do myself

folk into this defoliation thing remove leaves from tiny plants in veg that are not shaded
they think removing leaves causes a growth spurt of extra shoots/bud sites etc
many of these defoliators strip plants almost bare before flower

the opposite extreme is folk that have a canopy full of leaves with no colas poking through much of the lower nodes shaded
scared to remove a single leaf
i like to keep as many leaves as possible but still open things up a little a balance between the two extremes

peace mate


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## BigLittlejohn (May 25, 2014)

Great thread Neo, I am in for the remainder of the run.


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## waterdawg (May 25, 2014)

Sorry it took so long to drop in! Really nice setup, and super grow!! No you dont need a heater. I try to keep my res temps below 71f but right now its impossible so the roots are not looking their perky white . Sorry if I missed it but what are your temps? Again super grow! I run a two tote system as well but no air pumps, just floom. Are the roots getting into pump at all? Thinking of revamping my setup so looking at everyones lol. Again great grow!


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## neo12345 (May 26, 2014)

Munzi23 said:


> Do you really need a res heater as have no more sockets lol and it's quite hot in my groom specially now summer round the corner


I personally wouldn't use a heater in the res, as you'll be forever fighting the root rot. Warm water also holds less dissolved oxygen, so a heater won't be doing you any favours.

My best tip would be to keep the water level topped up, I had one or two issues with the plant on the right which you will see and I believe they were caused by allowing the water level to get too low.

Have you got your Cheese clones yet?


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## neo12345 (May 26, 2014)

skunkd0c said:


> cool mate, i think the term defoliation is too ambiguous
> i would describe what you have done as more canopy management or pruning
> something i do myself
> 
> ...


Whichever way you look at it it's still defoliation as leaves are being removed, but I do agree with you that the whole subject is not very clear. Unfortunately some very childish people on this forum won't allow it to be discussed and investigated.

I would say the plant on the left could be considered as light canopy management as leaves were only removed to allow light to covered growing tips, and as you can see the plant has reached approx 12-14 inches above the canopy and is very bushy and compact. This left me concerned about airflow in and around the plant.

The plant on the right however has grown to 20 - 22 inches above the canopy, and although it may not look like it on the pictures but the canopy is much better spaced out to allow more light and air in and around it.

If you go back to the beginning you'll see that both plants were about the same size growing at the same rate until I started defoliating, then the plant on the right really took off. 

So I would agree with the people that say the plant puts on a growth spurt when defoliated, I have seen this doing it both ways by defoliating a large amount of leaves all in one go and a more continual defoliation.

I would guess and I'm only guessing that when a plant loses a certain percentage of leaves then there is a hormonal response triggered to grow, but this is not activated if the plant just loses a few leaves here and there. Surely it's a natural response to animal or insect attack, where a plant may lose a significant amount of foliage and need to regrow it? It makes sense to me. It could be a combination of things that are happening, but we'll never find out what or why until there can be a sensible discussion about it.

I think one of the biggest misunderstandings about defoliation is that people get obsessed with those pictures of plants just after defoliation where they have no leaves on, and they think that is what's trying to be achieved i.e growing a plant with no leaves. In fact it's just the opposite as you can see by my plants, there are still plenty of leaves for growing!

The plant on the right is at least 30% bigger than the plant on the left at the same age, and this was achieved with nothing more than defoliation. I could really see the difference in the speed that they were growing, the plant on the right was what made me put them into flower as it was in danger of taking over the whole tent.

It's an interesting subject but for another time and place.


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## Munzi23 (May 26, 2014)

neo12345 said:


> I personally wouldn't use a heater in the res, as you'll be forever fighting the root rot. Warm water also holds less dissolved oxygen, so a heater won't be doing you any favours.
> 
> My best tip would be to keep the water level topped up, I had one or two issues with the plant on the right which you will see and I believe they were caused by allowing the water level to get too low.
> 
> Have you got your Cheese clones yet?


Still awaiting but I popped some pineapple chunk just cracked today and put them in root riot cubes in the propagator just as a precaution in case it take too long as time is short ATM lol but haven't heard good thing about the pineapple chunk about it being unstable so hopefully my cuts will come through lol also how high you have your screen above the pebbles ?


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## neo12345 (May 28, 2014)

Munzi23 said:


> also how high you have your screen above the pebbles ?


I'm in the camp of putting the screen in as early as possible, so my screen would probably considered to be quite low!


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## Munzi23 (May 28, 2014)

W


neo12345 said:


> I'm in the camp of putting the screen in as early as possible, so my screen would probably considered to be quite low!


lol also I hears Serapis is better I'm going to get some what's your opinion


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## Munzi23 (May 28, 2014)

Seramis *


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## BigLittlejohn (May 28, 2014)

The way I see it, if you remove leaves you are defoliating, which is why I never understand those pissing contests around here.


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## neo12345 (May 28, 2014)

Munzi23 said:


> W
> 
> lol also I hears Seramis is better I'm going to get some what's your opinion


I've no idea about it being better or worse than clay pebbles, I know someone that uses it but couldn't say whether it was an improvement.

I don't use it because I would have had to drill twice as many smaller holes in the smaller tub, and I was bored after 5 mins of drilling the bigger holes!! lol


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## Munzi23 (May 28, 2014)

neo12345 said:


> I've no idea about it being better or worse than clay pebbles, I know someone that uses it but couldn't say whether it was an improvement.
> 
> I don't use it because I would have had to drill twice as many smaller holes in the smaller tub, and I was bored after 5 mins of drilling the bigger holes!! lol


Quick update clones came dutch passions white widow !!! They came in rock wool shall I transplant them straight into bubbler or into cube to get better structure ?


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## jtdubz (May 28, 2014)

Hey neo how much do you think this set up is cost wise? Im almost done with my first grow and I think you sold me on this setup! Ready to dip my fingers in some hydro


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## dr green dre (Jun 1, 2014)

Munzi23 said:


> W
> 
> lol also I hears Serapis is better I'm going to get some what's your opinion


Its ok from what i hear ..supose to be ph perfect or so the shop guys keep telling me ..

@jtdubz ..

90ltr tub £20
16ltr sub tray-£5
Mouse pump £10-20
Media-clay peb-coco- £10 
Air pump (depends how many tubs) £20 -50
Plus ..covering ..air lines and stones.. £10 depending on amounts.. 

hope that helps a little..


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## Horseman14 (Jun 2, 2014)

Decent thread that neo been doing a few of these myself lately got 2 bubblers in a 2.4 x1.2 got a scrogg frame 2m by 1.1 , heard great things about these so thought ad give it a go got 4 weeks to go looking good


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## Munzi23 (Jun 2, 2014)

dr green dre said:


> Its ok from what i hear ..supose to be ph perfect or so the shop guys keep telling me ..
> 
> @jtdubz ..
> 
> ...


How do you get on in bubblers any tips ?


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## dr green dre (Jun 2, 2014)

Munzi23 said:


> How do you get on in bubblers any tips ?


I likes these brum bubblers and the 20 ltr single black pots .. 
you can also run these with straight coco or a coco mix .. I think that helps out with a slight saftey net as it will take longer to dry out than clay pebbles would and makes the plants a lot more stable than in just pebbles .. if using straight coco i would give it some bug treatment in the first 2 feeds as some bags come with bugs mixed in..

If you can start with long roots it will speed things up as it really springs into action when the roots hit the water so the sooner the better .. 
I do use them without the mini pump aswell but for first time use id go with a pump with a circle drip ring .

Rinse the pebbles and ph them down if using them..

Less food is needed for the bubblers than it says on the bottle .. depending on your brand you can do more damage than good by trying to over feed in these..

Get a rooting product from the start to give your roots some extra protection and have some product that works on root rot on standby just incase ..

You can use anything that can hold the plants over the tub ..you dont need the 16ltr subtray.. i ve cut holes into pieces of treated wood( untreated wood will mold) and stuck in net pots.. i've seen shops selling metal sheets cut out with holes for the bigger net pots.. anything that can keep then sturdy and lights off the roots your good..

keep the water temps low too.. harder do sometimes but bottles of ice are known to help if your getting high temps.. or res chiller if £is good..

Think i got about 2-3 threads with these in ..some pics are on the first page of this to but feel free too look into any of those older threads..

Hope that helps 

DGD


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## Munzi23 (Jun 2, 2014)

dr green dre said:


> I likes these brum bubblers and the 20 ltr single black pots ..
> you can also run these with straight coco or a coco mix .. I think that helps out with a slight saftey net as it will take longer to dry out than clay pebbles would and makes the plants a lot more stable than in just pebbles .. if using straight coco i would give it some bug treatment in the first 2 feeds as some bags come with bugs mixed in..
> 
> If you can start with long roots it will speed things up as it really springs into action when the roots hit the water so the sooner the better ..
> ...


How do I view your older thread and what's your average yeild if you don't mind me asking I'm growing white widow by dutch passion rockwool cubes showing loads of roots just transplant to cube once that filled will put in system or shall I just out it in cube and in system now ?


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## neo12345 (Jun 4, 2014)

Sorry guys real life has kept me really busy the last week.

Glad you are thinking of making the change JT, as Doc Green Dre says the components are fairly cheap and if you can't get these exact components then you could make your own. The bigger the tank the better, as it will keep the temps down and you have more room for the roots to grow. These systems can be easily made at home if you can't get these exact components, and as Dre says you can suspend the plant using a wooden frame with a net pot attached as it will give you the same effect.

Hydro is really simple compared to soil, and you'll have much more control over it. Can't wait to see your setup when it's ready.


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## neo12345 (Jun 4, 2014)

Horseman14 said:


> Decent thread that neo been doing a few of these myself lately got 2 bubblers in a 2.4 x1.2 got a scrogg frame 2m by 1.1 , heard great things about these so thought ad give it a go got 4 weeks to go looking good


Sounds good Horseman, feel free to put some pics up. How long did you veg for and what are you growing?


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## neo12345 (Jun 4, 2014)

Munzi23 said:


> Quick update clones came dutch passions white widow !!! They came in rock wool shall I transplant them straight into bubbler or into cube to get better structure ?


I would let them grow into the cube first as you'll have a bit more control, once the roots are showing through the bottom of the cube then transplant into the system. At least that way you're transplanting a healthy to your system.

I then run the dripper for 10-15 mins a day for the first few days to encourage the roots to search out the water, then switch the dripper to being on 24/7.


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## Munzi23 (Jun 4, 2014)

neo12345 said:


> I would let them grow into the cube first as you'll have a bit more control, once the roots are showing through the bottom of the cube then transplant into the system. At least that way you're transplanting a healthy to your system.
> 
> I then run the dripper for 10-15 mins a day for the first few days to encourage the roots to search out the water, then switch the dripper to being on 24/7.


bit late already put them in lol no worries ill keep a close eye on them and add a week to schedule there was plenty of roots on rock wool so hopefully won't have a problem the problem i have is if i run the pump the water seems nowhere by the plant even though its close around the cube itself just makes me wonder if its even getting wet lol


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## Horseman14 (Jun 4, 2014)

neo12345 said:


> Sounds good Horseman, feel free to put some pics up. How long did you veg for and what are you growing?


Veg for 4 weeks got 1 cheese 1 g13 both cuttings looking sik ill through a few up tomorow


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## Horseman14 (Jun 4, 2014)

Munzi23 said:


> bit late already put them in lol no worries ill keep a close eye on them and add a week to schedule there was plenty of roots on rock wool so hopefully won't have a problem the problem i have is if i run the pump the water seems nowhere by the plant even though its close around the cube itself just makes me wonder if its even getting wet lol


When you first put it in the pebbles the drop ring doesn't really go near I left it on but scooped a jug out the res every an poured in close to make sure worked well


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## Horseman14 (Jun 4, 2014)

Horseman14 said:


> When you first put it in the pebbles the drop ring doesn't really go near I left it on but scooped a jug out the res every an poured in close to make sure worked well


Every day


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## Munzi23 (Jun 4, 2014)

Horseman14 said:


> Every day


Cheers horse !


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## Horseman14 (Jun 5, 2014)

There the G13s lovely haze this strain I have here ,


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## Horseman14 (Jun 5, 2014)

These are the cheese 1s


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## Horseman14 (Jun 5, 2014)

Few root shots there never had root systems like these before using coco , unbelievable the amount of root in that res these greedy bitches are drinking 45ltr each a week


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## Horseman14 (Jun 5, 2014)

Few more pics there , it was ment to be a scrogg but went away for a week week 1 of flower came back and no chance I could scrogg so let the do there thing , I reckon I'll get about 30 oz of the 2 I used to get about 35 off 10 with coco so well worth doing , carnt wait to smoke all this shit up


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## Munzi23 (Jun 5, 2014)

My fan leaves are turning downwards this due to misses feeding for them and gave them them an e.c of 1.6!!!!! This was before the transplant into system so I mixed res with 0.6 feed how long till they perk up ? I'm slightly worried


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## Horseman14 (Jun 5, 2014)

Not sure mate 


Munzi23 said:


> My fan leaves are turning downwards this due to misses feeding for them and gave them them an e.c of 1.6!!!!! This was before the transplant into system so I mixed res with 0.6 feed how long till they perk up ? I'm slightly worried


Not sure mate carnt see it taking more than a week if that's the reason , could be sutton else ?


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## neo12345 (Jun 5, 2014)

Horseman14 said:


> Few more pics there , it was ment to be a scrogg but went away for a week week 1 of flower came back and no chance I could scrogg so let the do there thing , I reckon I'll get about 30 oz of the 2 I used to get about 35 off 10 with coco so well worth doing , carnt wait to smoke all this shit up


They do have a tendency to grow really fast if you turn your back on them, I used to grow flood and drain but this seems much faster.

Looking good though! Have you thought about squeezing in a third plant in that size tent, and you could push 40+ easily? What nutes are you using?


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## Horseman14 (Jun 5, 2014)

neo12345 said:


> They do have a tendency to grow really fast if you turn your back on them, I used to grow flood and drain but this seems much faster.
> 
> Looking good though! Have you thought about squeezing in a third plant in that size tent, and you could push 40+ easily? What nutes are you using?


I'll push 40 I reckon off 2 once I'm on it properly my mate got 50 off 2 not lomg ago using them G13s he uses 250 w lights an has more an puts them closer . I could easily fill that net with 2 reckon I could fill that scrogg with 1 if I verged bit longer them Gs don't hakf grow pisses all over the cheese . Am using bioponic nutes seem ok up 2 now , what nutes you use ???? How long you have left ??


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## Munzi23 (Jun 5, 2014)

neo12345 said:


> They do have a tendency to grow really fast if you turn your back on them, I used to grow flood and drain but this seems much faster.
> 
> Looking good though! Have you thought about squeezing in a third plant in that size tent, and you could push 40+ easily? What nutes are you using?


Plan you help neo check my earlier post


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## neo12345 (Jun 5, 2014)

Munzi23 said:


> My fan leaves are turning downwards this due to misses feeding for them and gave them them an e.c of 1.6!!!!! This was before the transplant into system so I mixed res with 0.6 feed how long till they perk up ? I'm slightly worried


Did the leaves droop the day after you transplanted them into the system? This is quite normal and is transplant shock, the plant will recover in a few days. Over feeding isn't good for them but hopefully not too much damage hasn't been done.

Don't be ruled by your EC pen, go by what your plants tell you. You only need a very weak solution to start with, then very slowly increase.


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## Munzi23 (Jun 5, 2014)

Can *


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## Munzi23 (Jun 5, 2014)

neo12345 said:


> Did the leaves droop the day after you transplanted them into the system? This is quite normal and is transplant shock, the plant will recover in a few days. Over feeding isn't good for them but hopefully not too much damage hasn't been done.
> 
> Don't be ruled by your EC pen, go by what your plants tell you. You only need a very weak solution to start with, then very slowly increase.


They dropped day after feed when I went to transplant hence misses night before over fed but I just checked them they been in there two days and carefully removed the block and one or two tiny roots showing through the bigger cube baring in mind they only got placed in larger cube day of over feed so fingers crossed lol


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## neo12345 (Jun 5, 2014)

Munzi23 said:


> They dropped day after feed when I went to transplant hence misses night before over fed but I just checked them they been in there two days and carefully removed the block and one or two tiny roots showing through the bigger cube baring in mind they only got placed in larger cube day of over feed so fingers crossed lol


Stop fiddling with them for 5 mins and they might grow!! lol


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## neo12345 (Jun 7, 2014)

Horseman14 said:


> I'll push 40 I reckon off 2 once I'm on it properly my mate got 50 off 2 not lomg ago using them G13s he uses 250 w lights an has more an puts them closer . I could easily fill that net with 2 reckon I could fill that scrogg with 1 if I verged bit longer them Gs don't hakf grow pisses all over the cheese . Am using bioponic nutes seem ok up 2 now , what nutes you use ???? How long you have left ??


I hope you're ready for a monster trimming session!! lol Even 30 is pretty good from that space, so you shouldn't be worried about that as there are plenty of people that don't get close to that from a 2x1m tent! This run is actually finished but I decided to post it like a journal, just to show people how easy these systems are to use. I know lot's of people that use them and couldn't find much info on RIU about it so started this thread about them, as it's nice to see what other people are doing and swap some tips.

When you say Bioponics do you mean the Hydrotops range, that's what I've been using.


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## Horseman14 (Jun 7, 2014)

neo12345 said:


> I hope you're ready for a monster trimming session!! lol Even 30 is pretty good from that space, so you shouldn't be worried about that as there are plenty of people that don't get close to that from a 2x1m tent! This run is actually finished but I decided to post it like a journal, just to show people how easy these systems are to use. I know lot's of people that use them and couldn't find much info on RIU about it so started this thread about them, as it's nice to see what other people are doing and swap some tips.
> 
> When you say Bioponics do you mean the Hydrotops range, that's what I've been using.[/QUOTE
> 
> Am never ready hate them ha, ye cheers for the journal it was a good read Ye these bubblers are a piece of piss, and yes it's good for people to come on and have a look an ask questions , ye the Hydrotops range ,


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## neo12345 (Jun 8, 2014)

Horseman14 said:


> Am never ready hate them ha, ye cheers for the journal it was a good read Ye these bubblers are a piece of piss, and yes it's good for people to come on and have a look an ask questions , ye the Hydrotops range ,


Do you use their Triple F? Seems like a lot of dosh, does it actually work?


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## Munzi23 (Jun 8, 2014)

Quick update they seem to be settling in now lol stopped fiddling and they seem ok just noticed rockwool going green witch I assume it algae so just covered the cube to block the light is this right ?


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## neo12345 (Jun 9, 2014)

Munzi23 said:


> Quick update they seem to be settling in now lol stopped fiddling and they seem ok just noticed rockwool going green witch I assume it algae so just covered the cube to block the light is this right ?


Have you not made a cover for that area? I normally cover the cube in a layer of pebbles, and then the cover goes over the top of that and it keeps the green away.

Glad they are coming on now, throw some pics up if you want?


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## Horseman14 (Jun 9, 2014)

neo12345 said:


> Do you use their Triple F? Seems like a lot of dosh, does it actually work?


Ye neo I used it all the top heavy crop as well don't no if it wo


neo12345 said:


> Do you use their Triple F? Seems like a lot of dosh, does it actually work?



Yes using triple f using the whole range couldn't tell u mate first time I've used it buds lool like they have nearly doubled in the last week or so put a few more pics up in a few weeks before I chop it


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## Horseman14 (Jun 11, 2014)

neo12345 said:


> Have you not made a cover for that area? I normally cover the cube in a layer of pebbles, and then the cover goes over the top of that and it keeps the green away.
> 
> Glad they are coming on now, throw some pics up if you want?


Hi neo just looking back through this thread , seen the defoliation u talk about , never done it before , usually just top them ,seems like it's worth doing ???


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## Munzi23 (Jul 16, 2014)

Where have you gone neo !


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## mrgreen71 (Jun 23, 2015)

Hi neo,
I am new here and my next grow I will follow your steps. This system seems to be easy to use and the yields could be amazing.
So how much did you get dry from your two plants ?
Thanks for sharing your tips and advises.


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## mrgreen71 (Jun 23, 2015)

neo12345 said:


> Have you not made a cover for that area? I normally cover the cube in a layer of pebbles, and then the cover goes over the top of that and it keeps the green away.
> 
> Glad they are coming on now, throw some pics up if you want?


Hi neo,
I am new here and my next grow I will follow your steps. This system seems to be easy to use and the yields could be amazing.
So how much did you get dry from your two plants ?
Thanks for sharing your tips and advises.


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## Munzi23 (Jun 29, 2015)

mrgreen71 said:


> Hi neo,
> I am new here and my next grow I will follow your steps. This system seems to be easy to use and the yields could be amazing.
> So how much did you get dry from your two plants ?
> Thanks for sharing your tips and advises.


Neo been gone for like a year bro !


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## mrgreen71 (Jun 29, 2015)

Munzi23 said:


> Neo been gone for like a year bro !


You mean dead?


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## greendave (Jun 29, 2015)

Hey neo AWESOME job sorry was late to the show,quick question what are your water temps hi and low range. Also how do you keep your water temps in check?Thanks great info.


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## Buckers (Aug 31, 2018)

neo12345 said:


> The Brummie Bubbler is a drip fed DWC system, the name is supposedly to have come from the original company making these posting most of them to the Birmingham area of the UK.
> 
> View attachment 3032727
> 
> ...


What strength feed do you start them off with and what ec/cf should you be aiming for? I have just set up and filling tanks today and some say half strength with a ec range of 1.0 - 1.2?? 
Great set up tutorial btw


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## Bladearse69 (Nov 10, 2019)

neo12345 said:


> *Day 4.*
> 
> The plants seem to be enjoying their new home.
> 
> ...


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## Bladearse69 (Nov 10, 2019)

neo12345 said:


> I can fit two of these tanks comfortably side by side in a 1.2m x 1.2m tent.
> 
> View attachment 3033942
> 
> ...


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## Bladearse69 (Nov 10, 2019)

neo12345 said:


> The Brummie Bubbler is a drip fed DWC system, the name is supposedly to have come from the original company making these posting most of them to the Birmingham area of the UK.
> 
> View attachment 3032727
> 
> ...


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## rkymtnman (Nov 10, 2019)

just so you know, this thread has been a zombie for over a year


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## Bladearse69 (Nov 12, 2019)

Shit lol


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