# We're all fuct now



## Al B. Fuct (May 24, 2009)

Hi yawl, just popped in for a lookabout. Want you all to know how mightily impressed I am with the general quality of discussion and advice going round the boards. I had feared that when I no longer had time to answer grow op queries that this place would devolve back to pseudocience-spouting. It mostly hasn't. YAY! 

When I first showed up here a few years back, muddleheaded fans of molasses, CFLs for everything, LEDs and organic nutes were leading earnest new growers down the rosy garden path. 

I pounded the keys day and night in the hopes that a bit of science would stick, and to no small degree, it has. 

Well done, rollituppers.  Keep up the good work.


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## WoldofWeedcraft (May 24, 2009)

Welcome back Al. We've missed you. You've influenced a number of people including myself with your SoG op. What did you mean by muddleheaded fans of molasses? Is molasses not worth using even in soil ops?


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## Al B. Fuct (May 24, 2009)

Thanks for the greets. 

My comment on molasses of course is made in the context of a hydroponics forum. Molasses may have some use in soil, but it should be kept well away from hydro ops.


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## morrisgreenberg (May 24, 2009)

hello and welcome back, thanks for the juicy info, much appreciated


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## Boneman (May 24, 2009)

Welcome back ABF  Hows about staying a while huh?


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## DownOnWax (May 24, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Thanks for the greets.
> 
> My comment on molasses of course is made in the context of a hydroponics forum. Molasses may have some use in soil, but it should be kept well away from hydro ops.


I was actually thinking about that the other day. I use it in soil but there is no way I would want to run it through a resevoir.

Way too messy.


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## Al B. Fuct (May 24, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> hello and welcome back, thanks for the juicy info, much appreciated


 no wucking furries, mate. 



Boneman said:


> Welcome back ABF  Hows about staying a while huh?


Thanks for the welcome, but I can't really do the whole Q&A trip anymore. I once was putting 6-8h/day into it, inclusive of frequently repeating myself when a new grower would join one of the 'Ask Al' threads late in the game.



DownOnWax said:


> I was actually thinking about that the other day. I use it in soil but there is no way I would want to run it through a resevoir.
> 
> Way too messy.


Yeppers. While vascular plants themselves can't use sugars as a nutrient, _in an organic soil grow_, adding sugars will feed certain microbes which help to break down organic matter into nutrients which the plant can absorb. However, you don't get to pick & choose which microbes you're feeding. All of them get a feed. You're encouraging pathogens along with any bacteria which are breaking down organic matter. A yummy sugar solution also attracts insects which can cause you grief later down the track.

In a proper hydro op, the only organic matter present should be the cannabis plants themselves. Those attempting 'organic' hydro ops are on their own. I honestly can not count the number of people running 'organic' hydro ops who have approached me over the years who had root rot probs which could be attributed to nothing but failure of biological pathogen control methods. Since 'organic' hydro nutes are broken down _tout suite_ by H2O2, one can't use H2O2 in such systems. 

Bear in mind that the nutrients made bioavailable by natural decomposition of organic matter are the very same nutrients you get in inorganic nutes.


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## Santos L Halper (May 24, 2009)

I modeled the mini-sog I am in the middle of on your sog method. Your threads are a goldmine! Thanks so much!


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## Twistyman (May 24, 2009)

*Hey man...damn..good to see you're around..... *


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## HomeGrownHairy (May 24, 2009)

Props Al! - I read your thread front to back. Lots of great info and suggestions.


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## Philouza (May 24, 2009)

welcome back and thanks.. your posts have and are still influencing us noobs. you are an ambassador.


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## iloveit (May 24, 2009)

Yipee ka ya! This feels like reuniting with my mentor, how are your growing ops going? Thats a silly question I bet your jungle is doing great.

Youll be happy to know Ive finally got my Blueberry (dutch passion) clones growing & are currently in the last 2 weeks of flowering (flushing with Hygrozyme).







































When I saw your avatar in this thread I promised I wouldnt scare you away by asking 80 questions so I wont...Ill only ask you one He he he, dont worry Ill make it quick.
On one of my plants I found the tip of the cola turning brown so I gave it a squeeze & it crumble as if lifeless (top right plant in above pics), I cut it off thinking it was mold but the humidity never exceeds 45%rh & there is the vent blowing fresh air directly on it. This happened 1 week ago & the rest of the plant is good & moist. What do you make of it?




























*
This little black rock like thing fell out from within the cripy bud*










Thanks uncle Al


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## Al B. Fuct (May 24, 2009)

Santos L Halper said:


> I modeled the mini-sog I am in the middle of on your sog method. Your threads are a goldmine! Thanks so much!


 You're most welcome.  

Keep in mind that I didn't invent SoG. My only innovation (and I'm sure it also has been done before I yapped about it a lot) was the staggering of crops in 2-week intervals to break up the harvesting job a bit yet keep a steady output from the op. My main motivation in posting about growing was/is to help noobs get success quicker- quicker than I did, anyway. 



Twistyman said:


> *Hey man...damn..good to see you're around..... *


 Thanks. Nice to see you too.  I did kinda want to reassure folx that I hadn't died or become a drug war prisoner or anything foul like that. I got a paying gig running a few websites that suited my interests and just had to bail off the pot boards. I only get 24 hours in most days... well, not counting the hours I spend goofing off, of course. 



HomeGrownHairy said:


> Props Al! - I read your thread front to back. Lots of great info and suggestions.


 Thanks for that.  Those threads ran on and _on_ and _*on*_. Good on you for persevering through them. I do have to say that for the most part, they were pretty high signal-to-noise ratio, but there were a lot of things that I necessarily had to repeat. I just can't expect everyone to review a hundred pages to find one measly solution to a problem that I can recap in a sentence or two.



Philouza said:


> welcome back and thanks.. your posts have and are still influencing us noobs. you are an ambassador.


Thanks much.  I hope that I left folx more with overall concepts, such as thinking critically and understanding the science, instead of depending on a preponderance of posts praising a certain method or on rote memorisation of a laundry list of suggestions. Once you grasp the basics of how the plant works, you can make your own way without having to remember all manner of tiny snips of info.



iloveit said:


> Yipee ka ya! This feels like reuniting with my mentor, how are your growing ops going? Thats a silly question I bet your jungle is doing great.


heh, thanks.  

Just so you know, I have ups and downs in my op, too. I get seasonal performance variations due to the fact that while my op can cope with a wide variety of conditions, it is not 100% climate controlled. I have to compensate when winter comes on with the associated lower intake air temps. My tapwater's pH also will swing around quite a lot- after we've had a lot of rain, the water treatment plant will change what they do, to compensate for pathogens being flushed out of catchments. Usually causes pH to swing up a bit. Being a stoned slacker, I am often tempted to simply 'cookbook' my tank mix instead of actually measuring stuff... and it almost always causes me grief, sooner or later. You'd think I'd know better by now, ut it's hard for me to give of my precious slack to actually do WORK or something. 




iloveit said:


> Youll be happy to know Ive finally got my Blueberry (dutch passion) clones growing & are currently in the last 2 weeks of flowering (flushing with Hygrozyme).


Not so sure I'd mess with flushing or Hygrozyme, meself, but if it's working for you, run with it. 




iloveit said:


> When I saw your avatar in this thread I promised I wouldnt scare you away by asking 80 questions so I wont...Ill only ask you one He he he, dont worry Ill make it quick.
> On one of my plants I found the tip of the cola turning brown so I gave it a squeeze & it crumble as if lifeless (top right plant in above pics), I cut it off thinking it was mold but the humidity never exceeds 45%rh & there is the vent blowing fresh air directly on it. This happened 1 week ago & the rest of the plant is good & moist. What do you make of it?


Some things I'd check: air temp (28C max), air circ, nute strength (obvious nute burn happening, hold the nutes to 1000ppm max), perhaps some grey mould happening, fixable with a sulfur 'burner.' The mould may also be due to opportunistic mould colonisation on the tips which have already been cooked by excess heat or nute burn. 

Hope those suggestions sort it out for you.


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## Santos L Halper (May 24, 2009)

> Keep in mind that I didn't invent SoG.


I know, I've known about it for about 10-12 years or so, but your two pounds evey two weeks thread was what motivated/inspired me to do it.

I use GH nutes and also got a lot of information on hydro/sog from this Ask Lucas thread.

Here is one of my farthest clones so far (28 days), I'm doing three every two weeks. It wanted to say thanks


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## Greyskull (May 24, 2009)

just saying aloha

RESPECT TO YOU FOR THE THINGS YOU AHVEDONE & THE LIGHT YOU SHINE


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## Al B. Fuct (May 24, 2009)

Santos L Halper said:


> Here is one of my farthest clones so far (28 days), I'm doing three every two weeks. It wanted to say thanks


 Looks great! It'll start packing on the budmass now. 



Greyskull said:


> just saying aloha
> 
> RESPECT TO YOU FOR THE THINGS YOU AHVEDONE & THE LIGHT YOU SHINE


Mahalo to you, too. 

How did you know I glow in the dark?


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## iloveit (May 24, 2009)

Much appreciated Al your words mean so much to us.

I was just saying to another member "What would become if Al B Fuct & Heath Robinson (another member who inspired me to grow mary jane) got together"?

Heaths latest grow (thought you may wanna take a peek at his space module): https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/149998-heaths-flooded-tube-vertical.html

You & Heath deserve an award (as if it will do your methods justice) for your contributions to us all


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## Al B. Fuct (May 24, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Much appreciated Al your words mean so much to us.


Now you're just making me blush. 

I'm glad I could be helpful, but please don't give me _too_ much credit! 



iloveit said:


> I was just saying to another member "What would become if Al B Fuct & Heath Robinson (another member who inspired me to grow mary jane) got together"?


Probably a catfight!  

While I see what he's after, notably eliminating reflectors from the lighting system, causing all light to come directly from the lamp, eliminating losses- a darn good idea- Heath does one or two things that I just wouldn't, owing to the inherent complexity. I value simplicity very highly, mainly for reliability but also for ease of service and maintenance down the track. My ops are made exclusively from off-the-hydroshop-shelf bits which are replaceable in seconds if they fail, with no mods before use. Heath is definitely innovative and will surely get great results, but he works harder than I want to.


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## dirt clean (May 24, 2009)

welcome back A.L. I am here to thank you for pointing out the wonders of ozone. It has saved me many a time now in an apt. Their is no reason why safely used with common sense that ozone should not be a more basic form of odor control. I use a charcoal filer with a modified uv gen shoved into a duct. I took the lid off. Cost me 50 bucks. When in the room off she goes or I tend to dream about monsters and the like. Fun, but odd. I am working on my journalism degree so maybe I will see another grower around the news sites. 

I have moved from the A.L b fuct rockwool to soil and those magic teas of the organic section, but cheers to all.


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## iloveit (May 24, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Now you're just making me blush.
> 
> I'm glad I could be helpful, but please don't give me _too_ much credit!
> 
> ...


Ha ha didnt mean to kiss ass.
It would be perfect if you 2 were my neighbours.
Be sure to post pics of your grow ops every now & then dont leave us hanging.

Heres something that Ive always wanted to ask you: What is your favourite all time strain which you smoke regardless of your mood or state (state breeder also)?


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## Al B. Fuct (May 24, 2009)

dirt clean said:


> welcome back A.L. I am here to thank you for pointing out the wonders of ozone.


No worries.  

In the time I've been off the boards, I've also added a monstrous carbon filter to the exhaust from my flowering area. The Uvonaire 5000 just could not keep up with the massive 600CFM from the main blower and the output would get whiffy when there were a lot of plants in the last few days of flowering. 



dirt clean said:


> I have moved from the A.L b fuct rockwool to soil and those magic teas of the organic section, but cheers to all.


I went off rockwool as a primary medium some time ago. I now stuff pots with Fytocell, with just 25mm or so of RW in the bottom of each pot to keep the Fytocell granules from being rinsed out the pots.

Sorry to hear you've gone to soil. Much more work, lower yield performance, non-sterile out of the bag (even commercial potting soils have lots of microbial materials in them) and disposal issues due to weight. Sure, you can dump old soil in your gardens, provided your garden plants don't mind nute residues and you have the garden space to fill with soil. In an op like mine, where I'm disposing of 23 pots of medium every two weeks, I'd be raising my garden beds pretty significantly if I were using soil. I also already have problems with flood trays eventually cracking, partly due to weight of media & water; can't imagine what trouble I'd have if my pots all weighed 4x more. 

What possessed you to switch to soil?


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## Al B. Fuct (May 24, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Be sure to post pics of your grow ops every now & then dont leave us hanging.


We shall see. It's a bit of a mess at the moment and not worth photographing as I've had a couple of batches of clones fail in rapid succession recently along with a pH meter failure which caused me to shoot the pH too low in the flowering area & clone watering soln for a few weeks. Both are due to seasonal/weather variations. I have to manually compensate for lower air temps in winter (coming on as we speak around here), notably by reducing the number of watering cycles per lights-on and pay close attention to variations in tapwater pH caused when the treatment plant copes with pathogens washed out of the catchments when there's been a lot of rain- and we've been bucketed lately. 



iloveit said:


> Heres something that Ive always wanted to ask you: What is your favourite all time strain which you smoke regardless of your mood or state (state breeder also)?


What I'm growing now- Sweet Tooth #4 from Spice of Life Seeds. It's a primarily indica hybrid with a kinda stoney high. Because of the great flavour & heady high, I'd grow White Widow again if I had the space and inclination, but the yields always disappointed me. I once had an F1 cross of Skunk #1 x White Widow made by a local mate which yielded brilliantly but still had some of the WW characters. Lost it for some strange reason, kicked myself over that ever since. Not replaceable.... oh well.


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## iloveit (May 24, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> We shall see. It's a bit of a mess at the moment and not worth photographing as I've had a couple of batches of clones fail in rapid succession recently along with a pH meter failure which caused me to shoot the pH too low in the flowering area & clone watering soln for a few weeks. Both are due to seasonal/weather variations. I have to manually compensate for lower air temps in winter (coming on as we speak around here), notably by reducing the number of watering cycles per lights-on and pay close attention to variations in tapwater pH caused when the treatment plant copes with pathogens washed out of the catchments when there's been a lot of rain- and we've been bucketed lately.
> 
> 
> 
> What I'm growing now- Sweet Tooth #4 from Spice of Life Seeds. It's a primarily indica hybrid with a kinda stoney high. Because of the great flavour & heady high, I'd grow White Widow again if I had the space and inclination, but the yields always disappointed me. I once had an F1 cross of Skunk #1 x White Widow made by a local mate which yielded brilliantly but still had some of the WW characters. Lost it for some strange reason, kicked myself over that ever since. Not replaceable.... oh well.


I love winter temps & so do my plants, but the weather in U.K. for the past few days has been really hot, today my hygrometer recorded the MAX temp at 31C  OH MA GYAD! I found my root riot cubes dehydrated.

Mmmm Sweet tooth not tried that yet speaking of which, Im in the mood for some Ben & Jerrys chunky monkey lick lick slurp slurp.

If you do get hold of the F1 cross of Skunk #1 x White Widow then show us pics.
Im considering growing Kali Mist, Super silver haze or Critical Mass not decided yet. Im in the process of gathering info on breeding strains so I know longer have to purchase 10 seeds for £££. Hopefully Ill get the hang of it quickly.

It was great to hear from you again


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## dirt clean (May 24, 2009)

Lol, I am growing white widow skunk. Also widow cindy, a cross of white widow and purple cindy. White widow skunk is white widow, skunk, and northern lights. Huge plant. Cant wait, my first time with her.

As to soil, I am medical, so I want to stay in my limit. The cops already sent a hello party to my door thanks to some nosy neighbor and the tv too loud. Long story. I am ok by them it seems. But no experiments for me. Four in flower, four in veg and clone as I go. Seven gallon grow bags. 600 hps and 400 mh for now. I am no where near comercial.  rofl. 

Cool grow update. Those huge filters are awesome hired help for a grow. My first ozone was a wherehouse size titan model that with a lid still would not have done the job. Had to take the lid off a smaller model. But I am small. Personal.


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## Al B. Fuct (May 24, 2009)

iloveit said:


> I love winter temps & so do my plants, but the weather in U.K. for the past few days has been really hot, today my hygrometer recorded the MAX temp at 31C  OH MA GYAD! I found my root riot cubes dehydrated.


Yeah, I know ya poms think 31C is a heatwave. *giggle*

We had a 45.1C day wrapped with a few 42-43C days last summer. Now *THAT'S* a heatwave, bro. 

I will agree that change of season is a rough time unless you have perfect, year-round climate control, tho. 



iloveit said:


> If you do get hold of the F1 cross of Skunk #1 x White Widow then show us pics.


Unlikely, I'm afraid. The feller who I got it from is no longer growing. 



dirt clean said:


> Lol, I am growing white widow skunk.


Lucky you! 



dirt clean said:


> As to soil, I am medical, so I want to stay in my limit.


Oh, I see. Gotta do wotcha gotta do. 



dirt clean said:


> The cops already sent a hello party to my door thanks to some nosy neighbor and the tv too loud. Long story.


feckers. 



dirt clean said:


> Cool grow update. Those huge filters are awesome hired help for a grow.


yep, they sure do work, but they're not cheap. I'm looking into refilling mine when it stops working, but it's nearly as practical to just buy an entire new filter, considering the cost of new carbon granules and the mess factor involved with doing the refill.


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## Greyskull (May 24, 2009)

don't them big 150s or whatever they are called ... those 5ft monster filters... aren't those good for like 5years constant use?


edit: how can you tell when the scrubber isn't working.... do you not get too accustomed to the smells?
thanks


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## Al B. Fuct (May 24, 2009)

Greyskull said:


> don't them big 150s or whatever they are called ... those 5ft monster filters... aren't those good for like 5years constant use?


I can't recall any mfr of the things giving any sort of estimation on how long they last.



Greyskull said:


> edit: how can you tell when the scrubber isn't working.... do you not get too accustomed to the smells?


That's my problem! I don't know how long they're supposed to last and I _*definitely*_ can't trust my own schnozz to tell me when they're spent!


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## Greyskull (May 24, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> That's my problem! I don't know how long they're supposed to last and I _*definitely*_ can't trust my own schnozz to tell me when they're spent!


 
ha ha! I know the feeling... 
here's a bummer

from http://www.canfilters.com/faq.html

*



How long does the filter last?
The life of a filter is determined by the Of the contaminant, the relative humidity and the volume of air cleaned. Unfortunately there is no indicator light on the filter that tells you when it is ready to be replaced. Experience with one Can-Filter will give you an expectation for future Can-Filters in your particularapplication.

Click to expand...

*


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## dirtysteve (May 24, 2009)

Hey Al,
Just wanted to say thanks for all your info and your willingness to share it. Sadly, you left before I could get through those massive stickys you spawned. No big deal though. All I needed was in there. And there are plenty of your decipels who know quite a bit to help with the small stuff. Cheers and good luck in all your future endevors.
DS


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## Al B. Fuct (May 25, 2009)

Greyskull said:


> here's a bummer


And a bummer it is, too! Effin' good thing these jokers don't sell tyres. Imagine! _"Our tyres don't come with a 'when to replace light' but you'll know when they're due for replacement when the tread flies off on the motorway. Experience with one of our products will help you when you own the next copy. If you live to tell about it, of course."_  I guess I'll write a letter to the maker of these carbon filters from jail. "Oh hey, your filters work GREAT... until they don't, that is." 



dirtysteve said:


> Hey Al,
> Just wanted to say thanks for all your info and your willingness to share it. Sadly, you left before I could get through those massive stickys you spawned. No big deal though. All I needed was in there. And there are plenty of your decipels who know quite a bit to help with the small stuff. Cheers and good luck in all your future endevors.
> DS


Thanks for that.  At least the threads have been maintained for your archival convenience.


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## Greyskull (May 25, 2009)

fuck man maybe plant like 700 fruit trees around the OP, or start cooking with mega curry, _just in case_ LOL
WTF CanFilter - c'mon help us out here!


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## Al B. Fuct (May 25, 2009)

Screw the fruit trees. I'm getting one of these.


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## KaliKitsune (May 25, 2009)

We try to keep the BS meter down between 2-3 to keep everyone else sane.


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## Al B. Fuct (May 25, 2009)

That's not bad. The BS dial HAS been up to 11 in the past.


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## Greyskull (May 25, 2009)

that armed chopper drone is fucking tits!


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## M Blaze (May 25, 2009)

Hey Al, ive read a lot of your post and it was some very interesting reading. I grow in a total opposite way to you but I still enjoy reading about your methods even though I dont use them. 

Keep up the good work

MB


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## doogleef (May 25, 2009)

Al B. 

I just want to drop in and let you know that your philosophies on growing have shaped my entire op. Your steadfast dedication to simple and efficient methods that lead to infinitely reproducible results are a credit and an assett to all lazy stoners. Thank you. I raise a joint to you, sir. 

Your threads of beating newbs with a lot of the same information over and over again convinced me that, yes, hydro really is that easy and E/F is the way to go. That and environment is #1. If the lighting, temp, and ventilation are not right nothing else matters. Several of us self proclaimed "Fuct-heads" have continued to fight the battle against CFLs, LEDs, bubblecloners (I get 100% in RW on heating pad w/out any powders thx to you.) , organic hydro over chem and all the other crazyness that gets tossed around these boards. 

I can, sadly, no longer grow SOG as I am state legal to grow for medicinal purposes but I can only have 6 plants total. 3 in veg and 3 in bloom. If I were to grow 3 full sized plants (6 wks veg) in my table it would be way too tall even with proper pruning. This restriction has me in soil for this round and I HATE IT. Give me back my controlled res of nutes so I know exactly what my plants are eating. Things are going OK but i will be back to my E/F next round. 

Here's a pic of my OP just for giggles. 400W in 5 sq ft.  Thank god for cooltubes.  You were a big part of my inspiration, Al. Thanks again.


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## GypsyBush (May 25, 2009)

Hi Al...

I just cannot thank you enough...

I started with an Aerogarden... and after I found your thread.. well, I'll just post a current pic of the op...

Cheers to you mate!!!!

And Thank You very much for all the knowledge...



https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/167596-gypsys-picture-depot-9.html


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## greengiant69 (May 25, 2009)

whats up guys!! al... nice to meet you...... i'm new to this forum but not to farming. i just went to indoors this year and what a world of a dif then out side!!! any how from all that i have read from you and everyone else....... cheers to u bro!! you seem cool as hell and very smart of whats going on with the way these girls grow. my ? is for you.......summers coming and i need a port ac unit......wat size btu and dual hose or single? room is 12x12x8...and my sun light is 1000x4.


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## planetfonz (May 25, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> We shall see. It's a bit of a mess at the moment and not worth photographing as I've had a couple of batches of clones fail in rapid succession recently along with a pH meter failure which caused me to shoot the pH too low in the flowering area & clone watering soln for a few weeks. Both are due to seasonal/weather variations. I have to manually compensate for lower air temps in winter (coming on as we speak around here), notably by reducing the number of watering cycles per lights-on and pay close attention to variations in tapwater pH caused when the treatment plant copes with pathogens washed out of the catchments when there's been a lot of rain- and we've been bucketed lately.


ahh gday al! good to see you back!
i'm yet another who has studied your methods and is using a lot of your techniques and funnily (or unfunnily) enough also just lost all but 1 plant thru a PH pen mishap and a small cat eating my second last plant. cats aside, hopefully thats now sorted. i have a jack herer thats hanging onto life by a thread and is now being flushed to see if it recovers from the PH fluctuations. fingers crossed. but anyways thanks for the best source of info on how to grow. u deserve to be paid for what you do mate!


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## Fman (May 25, 2009)

Glad your back . Any advice, from you, is better than none at all. Ive tried to do my garden like yours. Its smaller though, only 6 plants every 2 weeks. Of course I have'nt had your success either, but I've only been doing this a little less than a year. Hope the Fires didnt hurt you.


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## GrowTech (May 25, 2009)

LTNS fuct. glad to see you're doing well.


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## brontobrandon1 (May 25, 2009)

indeed thank you for all your info, your ways are perfect!


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## SOG (May 25, 2009)

nice to see you around Al B.
your posts have been a tremendous help for many of us, 
you've mentored me along the way of setting up my garden (still in progress), i believe you'd be very proud of your student 
never got the chance to thank you for all you hard work, dedication and generosity
Thank you!!!


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## Al B. Fuct (May 25, 2009)

Greyskull said:


> that armed chopper drone is fucking tits!


 Won't SOMEBODY think of the _*tits*_? 

...but if you think _that_ was fucking tits, you ought to see _this._ 



M Blaze said:


> I grow in a total opposite way to you


 Really? How do you get the trays to flood when they're stuck to the ceiling like that?  Gravity sucks, you know. 



doogleef said:


> Al B.
> 
> I just want to drop in and let you know that your philosophies on growing have shaped my entire op. Your steadfast dedication to simple and efficient methods that lead to infinitely reproducible results are a credit and an assett to all lazy stoners. Thank you. I raise a joint to you, sir.


 Thanks.  Reproducibility is key. 



doogleef said:


> I can, sadly, no longer grow SOG as I am state legal to grow for medicinal purposes but I can only have 6 plants total. 3 in veg and 3 in bloom. If I were to grow 3 full sized plants (6 wks veg) in my table it would be way too tall even with proper pruning. This restriction has me in soil for this round and I HATE IT.


 I bet you do. Oh well, you can still grow and that's the important part. 



doogleef said:


> Here's a pic of my OP just for giggles. 400W in 5 sq ft.  Thank god for cooltubes.  You were a big part of my inspiration, Al. Thanks again.


 Happy to help. Looking mighty good so far. 



GypsyBush said:


> Hi Al...
> 
> I just cannot thank you enough...


 No worries. 

Nice pics, especially the macro shots of the resin trichomes. Great work, dood. 



greengiant69 said:


> whats up guys!! al... nice to meet you...... i'm new to this forum but not to farming. i just went to indoors this year and what a world of a dif then out side!!! any how from all that i have read from you and everyone else....... cheers to u bro!! you seem cool as hell and very smart of whats going on with the way these girls grow. my ? is for you.......summers coming and i need a port ac unit......wat size btu and dual hose or single? room is 12x12x8...and my sun light is 1000x4.


 GG, glad you found my notes helpful. 

Portable aircon units are not the most efficient things in the world, either with single or dual vent ducts. The dual duct sort is better than the single. If you can use a standard window-type unit or a portable split system (like this one),







you'll be much happier. 



planetfonz said:


> ahh gday al! good to see you back!
> i'm yet another who has studied your methods and is using a lot of your techniques and funnily (or unfunnily) enough also just lost all but 1 plant thru a PH pen mishap and a small cat eating my second last plant. cats aside, hopefully thats now sorted. i have a jack herer thats hanging onto life by a thread and is now being flushed to see if it recovers from the PH fluctuations. fingers crossed. but anyways thanks for the best source of info on how to grow. u deserve to be paid for what you do mate!


 Gee, thanks. _*Damn*_ the cats! 

Do be careful about overwatering. It's a very common way that new growers kill plants. 



Fman said:


> Glad your back . Any advice, from you, is better than none at all. Ive tried to do my garden like yours. Its smaller though, only 6 plants every 2 weeks. Of course I have'nt had your success either, but I've only been doing this a little less than a year. Hope the Fires didnt hurt you.


 Just visiting, actually. I'm going to turn into a pumpkin pretty soon, gotta get back on the path. 

Fires were in Victoria. I'm about 1000km away from there, but thanks for the well-wishes anyway. I have been down to the fire areas to deliver some 2nd hand bicycles I repaired for the kids- and it's absolutely horrific. Looks like a nuclear warzone. There's _never_ been anything like it, ever. That's why there were so many deaths. In most bushfire cases, one is able to stay and fight to save the house, but we've absolutely never seen fires _this _hot and that moved _SO_ fast. Aluminum engine blocks in cars melted! There's lots of pix of aluminum puddles. That requires sustained temps in excess of 660C (1200F). We still can't get over it. It just hasn't happened before. 



GrowTech said:


> LTNS fuct. glad to see you're doing well.


 Thanks GT. Nice to see you too. We're all good down here, thanks for the note. 



brontobrandon1 said:


> indeed thank you for all your info, your ways are perfect!


Happy to help, BB. 



SOG said:


> nice to see you around Al B.
> your posts have been a tremendous help for many of us


No worries.  Hope you get it up & going soon.


----------



## GypsyBush (May 25, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Nice pics, especially the macro shots of the resin trichomes. Great work, dood.


Thanks Al...

I still fuck up a lot, but I am finally starting to produce more than I can smoke... maybe... 

Cheers Al...

GB 

Ps. This Bowl's for you... Straight from Alaska...


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 25, 2009)

well done, looks yummy.

The 'solar lighter' is the dog's bollocks. I TRULY &#9829; that shot. [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]


----------



## GypsyBush (May 25, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> well done, looks yummy.


Thanks Al...

I wish I could share it with you for real...

The kief is a little green, but I am working on a finer mesh...

Here is the story on that..... 

KIEF... a Silent Diary... by GypsyBush


----------



## getnit (May 25, 2009)

Hi Al,
Just want to say thanks so much for your invaluable threads of wisdom and I now have an entire library saved on my p.c. of your op advice. I was having such bad luck until I came across your help. Funny, the one thing that really sticks in my mind of all the pages of gold is "how to keep the rockwool watered properly"; dip the bottom edge in for just one second ---that's it! Sure helped me for starters.

I'm sure the kids love you for the bikes, also. Best to you in your travels and thanks, again.


----------



## GypsyBush (May 25, 2009)

Oh!

and here is a real question for you...

Would running multiple strains on the same res cause pH fluctuations?

Thanks!


----------



## KaliKitsune (May 25, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Oh!
> 
> and here is a real question for you...
> 
> ...


I would say yes to this, simply because some strains have a faster nutrient uptake than others.


----------



## GypsyBush (May 25, 2009)

Thanks!


----------



## Fman (May 25, 2009)

Al- While you ARE here, I do have a question. I've tried doing a 2 week rooting, no veg grow. Each time (3) my plants start to flower in 7 to 10 days. As soon as they start to flower they stop growing. I've gone to longer veg times, but why do your plants get taller, I dont like growing a plant for 8 weeks and winding up with a 12 "- 3 gr. plant .


----------



## iloveit (May 25, 2009)

Hey Al about that air conditioning pic you posted, is it possible that the out take fan blows out the smell from your grow room?


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 25, 2009)

getnit said:


> Funny, the one thing that really sticks in my mind of all the pages of gold is "how to keep the rockwool watered properly"; dip the bottom edge in for just one second ---that's it! Sure helped me for starters.


 Ya know what? You're dead-nuts right, that's the most important thing out of any of the threads. I don't even want to admit how long it took me to work out how to properly water RW cubes in cloning. I did a whole thread on cloning in rockwool cubes, pivoting on that very idea of 'damp, not _WET_, dammit!' 




getnit said:


> I'm sure the kids love you for the bikes, also. Best to you in your travels and thanks, again.


 Yep, I took the bikes to a bushfire recovery station where folks were being housed until their reconstructions got underway. I managed to get about fifteen 20" BMX and a half dozen 26" mtn bikes put together in decent working order, thanks to the donation of some tyres & tubes and a few 2nd hand brake cables from a generous local bike shop. They were gladly (and QUICKLY) taken up.

Thanks for the thanks. 



GypsyBush said:


> Would running multiple strains on the same res cause pH fluctuations?


 No, if your pH is shifting, you're probably dealing with some pathogen load in the system. I've seen pythium and fusarium infections cause the pH to swing up rather quickly. Treat your tanks with H2O2 50% grade @ 1ml/L every 3-4 days. Should fix things right up in a week or so.



KaliKitsune said:


> I would say yes to this, simply because some strains have a faster nutrient uptake than others.


 Disagree. To this end, plants are plants. There's something else going on, as previously stated. 



Fman said:


> Al- While you ARE here, I do have a question. I've tried doing a 2 week rooting, no veg grow. Each time (3) my plants start to flower in 7 to 10 days. As soon as they start to flower they stop growing. I've gone to longer veg times, but why do your plants get taller, I dont like growing a plant for 8 weeks and winding up with a 12 "- 3 gr. plant .


It all starts with the clones. If they have a well developed root system with nice, white roots (no tan or brown roots- that's a sign of fungal probs) when they go in to flower and all the conds are right in the flowering area, they should take right off. If they have root probs as clones, they'll be slow growers in the flowering room. They should continue to gain height until wk4-5, when they should be at their finishing height, somewhere between 30-40". Verify that the pH & air temps are correct in the flowering area if the roots on the clones are otherwise OK.



iloveit said:


> Hey Al about that air conditioning pic you posted, is it possible that the out take fan blows out the smell from your grow room?


No. Heat extracted from the grow room is carried to the outdoor compressor unit through the refrigerant tubes. The refrigerant is never exposed to the air inside the room and thus can not pick up room scent.


----------



## mutefruit (May 25, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Thanks for the greets.
> 
> My comment on molasses of course is made in the context of a hydroponics forum. Molasses may have some use in soil, but it should be kept well away from hydro ops.




Sigh* i just put some heavyweight molasses in my res i guess ill discontinue it in a few days i don't want to flush so soon since i just added fresh nutes. 1 week of molasses will not hurt right? its on day 3 and plants are thriving.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 25, 2009)

mutefruit said:


> Sigh* i just put some heavyweight molasses in my res i guess ill discontinue it in a few days i don't want to flush so soon since i just added fresh nutes. 1 week of molasses will not hurt right? its on day 3 and plants are thriving.


Dump your tank, mix up new sauce. Small expense compared to the problems you may have later down the track. 

The point is that vascular plants have no need for sugars. If there was a Great Molasses Lake somewhere, there would be plants evolved to grow on its shores and suck up the sugar. However, there's no such ecosystem and no plants to fill the nonexistent sugar-eating plant niches. 

The sugar you add will largely be ignored by your cannabis plants; it's the side effects of what the sugars will attract and encourage (insects and pathogenic microbes) that causes the probs.


----------



## brontobrandon1 (May 25, 2009)

I love your threads, i learn something new EVERY time i read them. I never skip a page when i go to them.

Al b how long have you been growing cannabis?

Also heres something you might wanna compete for fun maybe bro


late


----------



## KaliKitsune (May 25, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Disagree. To this end, plants are plants. There's something else going on, as previously stated.


Well, say I take a Purple Kush (eats loads) and a White Widow (Kinda likes it skimpy) in the same DWC bucket. The Purple Kush is going to drain nutrients much faster, thus causing the pH to rise towards more neutral/basic. Also, one plant could respirate faster than another, which would cause faster water loss, which in turn would concentrate the nutrient solution and bring the pH down to a more acidic level.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 25, 2009)

brontobrandon1 said:


> I love your threads, i learn something new EVERY time i read them. I never skip a page when i go to them.


Thanks for that. 



brontobrandon1 said:


> Al b how long have you been growing cannabis?


Cracked my first beans in 1979. 



KaliKitsune said:


> Well, say I take a Purple Kush (eats loads) and a White Widow (Kinda likes it skimpy) in the same DWC bucket.


Whether that's true or not, if the two plants are sharing the same reservoir, you'd never measure a difference in the rez per se, particularly with airstones constantly agitating and mixing the rez soln about. If you could stick a pH probe into the rootmass, you may or may not see any difference between nute soln that had cycled through the two different rootmasses. 

Regardless, two different strains in one res will not cause the pH to swing around. There's other probs that will cause that swinging pH reading, but different strains ain't one of them.


----------



## Greyskull (May 25, 2009)

al i have a weird question for you... kind of grow philosophy related i guess...
what kind of plant to do you like to grow?
fast finishers, mega yeilders... pretty plants, smelly plants... 

thanks man


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 25, 2009)

I like reliable high yielders, but there's some I've run across which are flavourless or otherwise deficient. I didn't much like Skunk #1, for example. makes a ton of dope but you really get tired of smoking it. The best plant is a compromise of yield, high, mould/fungus resistance and nice flavour. Some of those are subjective, but the best compromise I've so far found is Sweet Tooth #4 from Spice of Life Seeds.


----------



## SOG (May 25, 2009)

can someone please help me out 
trying to find the temps being exhausted out of a single 1000w or a double 1000w air cooled tubes
or ultimately if anyone can pull the magic number out of 4 x 1000w air cooled tubes, 
these are the temps I'm actually trying to discover to test my DIY icebox project (links in my sig)

Thanks in Advance

SoG


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 25, 2009)

A 1000HPS in a cooltube should raise the air temp passing it by about 6C i.e. 20C in, 26C out. If you pump air through the cooltube faster, the output temp will come closer to the input temp. If your output air is more than about 6C warmer than the intake air, you may have too long a duct, not enough fan power or too many bends in the duct.







You can run 2 cooltubes in a series run. More than that and the temp differential between the grow room air and the cooltube air gets to be enough that the cooltube glass gets warm to the touch. Pyrex doesn't insulate terribly well. If it's warm to the touch, it is conducting heat back into the grow room airmass, which is the problem you're trying to solve! 

If you have 4 cooltubes, run two seriesed pairs, with each pair getting a feed from ambient. This will most efficiently remove heat from your lighting without convecting much heat off the cooltube hardware & duct surfaces and into the room air.


----------



## Nico Bellic 44 (May 25, 2009)

Hey Al!
I can't believe I have this wonderful opportunity to communicate with you...My wife know you as "my guru", because of you I learned so much...I went from buying shit schwag to smoking stuff I only saw in photos. Its all based on your stickys...thats where I learned EVERYTHING. Your knowledge will live on bro! If I could only ask you one thing I guess it would be...to flush, or not to flush?


----------



## Greyskull (May 25, 2009)

thanks for the insight good sir

and that "tit" link was very nice
good looking out!


----------



## SOG (May 25, 2009)

Thank you Al, your the best bra
ill be running two 8" tubes per bank, with an 8" 667cfm MaxFan blowing in each bank
each bank will receive air from an 8" tube that brakes out of a 10" main tube of fresh air etc...
my plans are to merge both these banks into a single exhausting duct down the line
then brake all the heat at once in a single location, and possibly cycle it back to the main area room as cold air

here is my diagram 
ice box didn't exist at the time of planing, 
it will be placed at the end of the exhaust line as part of the 12" exit

My DIY IceBox and 

My testing facility 


my rooms diagram (both these tents are located inside sealed general room 30" x 15" (10m x 5m))
  

Sun Tube & AAW combo placement 
 

i think you know who inspired this build


----------



## DeweyKox (May 25, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Hi yawl, just popped in for a lookabout. Want you all to know how mightily impressed I am with the general quality of discussion and advice going round the boards. I had feared that when I no longer had time to answer grow op queries that this place would devolve back to pseudocience-spouting. It mostly hasn't. YAY!
> 
> When I first showed up here a few years back, muddleheaded fans of molasses, CFLs for everything, LEDs and organic nutes were leading earnest new growers down the rosy garden path.
> 
> ...


Al what up man. I first learned all from you man! You should have a look at my journal if you ever get a chance and a contest coming up. Thanks for you info again and again my brother!kiss-ass


----------



## SOG (May 25, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> ...but if you think _that_ was fucking tits, you ought to see _this._


here are all the free sex video's sites out there!
for real pay and password protected porn sites access, register at this password dump board


----------



## greengiant69 (May 26, 2009)

al............. thanx for the info about the ac units. do u got a web site on that pic of the split unit u showed. i found some split units myself but i can't make that big of a hole for the size of those. but that one you showed me wood be perfect. plus one more ? for you.......... what are some bad ass bloom enhancers or boosters for hydro/ebb n flow buckets? i just used advance nuts big bud powder and it was f...ked up do to the fact the powder clogged everything and created gray moss and bact. i need full synthetic boosters if u could steer me to some info of your know how! and thank you so dam much!! really though guy ur a big help.............. some people on here are ass's and act like they wer doing this for ever and never had a first time/start. again thank u!!


----------



## Ahzweepay (May 26, 2009)

Welcome back Al!
I can't tell ya how many times I've been through your various threads as my grow has progressed. You're an invaluable source of help - thanks


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 26, 2009)

Nico Bellic 44 said:


> Hey Al!
> I can't believe I have this wonderful opportunity to communicate with you...My wife know you as "my guru", because of you I learned so much...


 Tell the wife I'm real sorry about that perpetual supply of dope. 



> I went from buying shit schwag to smoking stuff I only saw in photos. Its all based on your stickys...thats where I learned EVERYTHING. Your knowledge will live on bro!


 coolio. 



> If I could only ask you one thing I guess it would be...to flush, or not to flush?


 Optional. Certainly not necessary, but if it makes you feel better you can do it. 



SOG said:


> Thank you Al, your the best *bra*


 So, you're thanking me for all the support?  



> My DIY IceBox and
> 
> My testing facility


 Wow, very inventive. You have an endless, free supply of ice somewhere?




> i think you know who inspired this build


 It looks... hmm, you know... _familiar_, sorta. 

Interesting work, very skillful. Well done. 



greengiant69 said:


> what are some bad ass bloom enhancers


The only bloom enhancers worth using are phosphorus & potassium based sorts, like Canna PK13-14. They get used in wk6 *only*. Start with about 1/4 the mfr's recommended rate. P boosters are well known for cooking plants. You may do better without them. 



> some people on here are ass's and act like they wer doing this for ever and never had a first time/start. again thank u!!


s'okay, I taught those cats everything they know. And I'm humble about it, too. Did I ever tell you that I invented dirt? True! 



Ahzweepay said:


> Welcome back Al!
> I can't tell ya how many times I've been through your various threads as my grow has progressed. You're an invaluable source of help - thanks


Thanks. Glad I've been able to help make it go for ya.


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## Al B. Fuct (May 26, 2009)

Thought youse guys would get a kick out of this. 

 

Two funny old stoners popped in town recently. 



They were kind enough to 'graf a Mexican bud vase for me. 



This one's gone _straight_ to the _pool room_. 



It'll show up someday on The Collectors or Antiques Roadshow, where they'll all joke about how quaint it was long ago, back when pot was a crime.


----------



## Fman (May 26, 2009)

It'll show up someday on The Collectors or Antiques Roadshow, where they'll all joke about how quaint it was long ago, back when pot was a crime.  

AL-You should come to the S.F.V ,CA. U.S.A. I was walking out of one of the many MMJ clinics, here in the Valley , carrying my little "lunch bag". As I crossed the street, 2 of LAPD's finest drove by. They knew where I was coming from, and they knew what was in the bag. Not even a second look ,they didnt even care that I was jaywalking. If thats not legal, I dont know what is.


----------



## iloveit (May 26, 2009)

Thanks for answering my previous question now I dont have to worry about scent leaks this summer as the weather man has reported that we are gonna have a heat wave this year.

Al you see that pic below? Any idea how people manage to grow tall plants in small containers, I mean how is it that it isnt root bound?


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 26, 2009)

Fman said:


> If thats not legal, I dont know what is.


I agree, it sure looks like legalisation, but there's still a certain artifice to it when you have to prove a medical need, etc. 

There's no doubt that it beats the holy motherless fuck out of what I gotta deal with- 20 years in my neck o' the weeds for indoor cultivation with hydroponics.

US pot laws may indeed turn a corner soon. It's never been higher on the national agenda. If US law changes, Australian law will follow in a few years. Maybe.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 26, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Any idea how people manage to grow tall plants in small containers, I mean how is it that it isnt root bound?


Those plants are far too tall for any indoor op (looking to be about 3-4' to me, you can see the grower has added fill lights, which won't do much, but he's clearly concerned about sparse lower growth), but they're not really *big *plants as cannabis plants go. Most strains will grow to 8-10ft outdoors in good conditions. 

Cannabis plants don't really make huge rootmasses, but I think you're right, those plants would be wanting bigger pots if they weren't so close to harvest anyway. 

Rootmasses on plants that are regularly (especially automatically) watered tend not to get extensive as they don't have to search for water.


----------



## iloveit (May 26, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Those plants are far too tall for any indoor op (looking to be about 3-4' to me, you can see the grower has added fill lights, which won't do much, but he's clearly concerned about sparse lower growth), but they're not really *big *plants as cannabis plants go. Most strains will grow to 8-10ft outdoors in good conditions.
> 
> Cannabis plants don't really make huge rootmasses, but I think you're right, those plants would be wanting bigger pots if they weren't so close to harvest anyway.
> 
> Rootmasses on plants that are regularly (especially automatically) watered tend not to get extensive as they don't have to search for water.



Ah I get it. Cheers.


----------



## SOG (May 26, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Wow, very inventive. You have an endless, free supply of ice somewhere?
> It looks... hmm, you know... _familiar_, sorta.
> Interesting work, very skillful. Well done.


Thank you Al, 
and yes you have mentored me through the hurdle of getting started
your posts have inspired many of us to push the limits
so here some of the results id thought id share 

lol, i don't have an endless ice supply, 
its a water res connected to a chiller
circulating cold water through the radiator coils, 
the radiator will be placed inline on my 12" main exhausting line
so all the air passing through will get cooled as it passes


----------



## iloveit (May 26, 2009)

SOG said:


> Thank you Al,
> and yes you have mentored me through the hurdle of getting started
> your posts have inspired many of us to push the limits
> so here some of the results id thought id share
> ...



I just saw your soG grow room op for the first time, WOAH! Well done  thats a nicely presented thread. Do you mind me asking how much (approx) the entire setup cost?


----------



## Roseman (May 26, 2009)

Glad to see ya back, Al.
I am a "fuctster student" from two years ago. You and Potroast and Fdd2blk taught me more than I hoped for here, more from you and Potroast. I don't do soil.


----------



## 10mm fan boy (May 26, 2009)

Al,

Thanks for all the great info you have provided over the years. You are doing a great service to the community.

I have been fighting my first SOG grow for the past 5 months and hope you can point me in the right direction.

I set up my operation as close to yours as I could and even got your clones in RW method down, so I am not sure what I am doing wrong, but my problem is this:

I get good roots @ 2 weeks but when I put them into flowering, they don't grow another inch. They start growing white hairs right away but no verticle growth the entire 2 months. If I put 8" clones on my SOG tray, they will finish 8" w/ a few grams of bud on them.

I just got another flood tray so I can try to give them veg time to get em going. It looks like they don't do anything for 3+ weeks and then they take off and end up looking very healthy.

I know I shouldn't have to give them any veg time, so I must be doing something wrong.

AN - 1100 ppm
Ph - 5.5-5.8
RH - 50%
temp - 75-82
exhaust fan always going to bring in fresh co2
400w hps


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 26, 2009)

SOG said:


> Thank you Al,
> and yes you have mentored me through the hurdle of getting started


 cool. 



> your posts have inspired many of us to push the limits


 Yanno, I'd have rather thought it would be the other way around. I'm almost without doubt one of the most conservative dope growers you'll ever find. I push very few limits as it were, rather opting for what I _know_ will work for me _and _anyone else. Nothing I do is experimental or unproven. 



> the radiator will be placed inline on my 12" main exhausting line
> so all the air passing through will get cooled as it passes


 In the exhaust line? Cooling the air you're going to dump outside? To mask heat signature, perhaps? Am I confused? 

Nice sheetmetal work, wish I could do stuff like that. 



Roseman said:


> Glad to see ya back, Al.


'sup Rosey? 



> I am a "fuctster student" from two years ago.


Does that mean you gave up on flowering with CFLs? 

Hope you're pounding out the poundage, dood. 



10mm fan boy said:


> Al,
> 
> Thanks for all the great info you have provided over the years. You are doing a great service to the community.


*blush*  thanks 



> I have been fighting my first SOG grow for the past 5 months and hope you can point me in the right direction.


Will do what I can. 


> I get good roots @ 2 weeks but when I put them into flowering, they don't grow another inch.


Hmm. 

You told me about everything but your watering. Slow growth is often caused by overwatering. 

What do the roots look like on the plants you're pulling out? If they're browned or poorly developed, watering might be excessive for the medium you're using. 

Are you regularly applying H2O2 in your tanks? It can help a op which is marginally overwatered as the H2O2 will break down to provide O2 to the roots. It won't help a massively overwatered grow, tho. 

What sort of media are you using and how are you watering it (drip, flood, etc)? How often?


----------



## iloveit (May 26, 2009)

al b. Fuct said:


> thought youse guys would get a kick out of this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hey its cheech & chong coool!


----------



## 10mm fan boy (May 26, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> What sort of media are you using and how are you watering it (drip, flood, etc)? How often?


I grow in 6" pots with hydroton. I flood my table 5 times a day while the lights are on. Just long enough to fill up my flood trays. 

Yes I use H202 in my soup and add new every 3-4 days.

The roots growing from new clones are white and healthy, but roots on the plants I pull from flowering are brownish and underdeveloped.

My mother plants (which came from the same batch of clones) had the same lag time when they first started off in veg. 

Now they are big and healthy.

FWIW, I started off using rockwoll (watering once a day) and had the same problem.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 26, 2009)

10mm fan boy said:


> I grow in 6" pots with hydroton. I flood my table 5 times a day while the lights are on. Just long enough to fill up my flood trays.


Are you starting your clones in RW cubes? 

Is the flood level BELOW the bottom of the cube as it is nested in pellets? If the flood level touches the cube and you're flooding 5x/day, that'll _definitely_ cause root development problems. 



> Yes I use H202 in my soup and add new every 3-4 days.


Good, good, good. 



> The roots growing from new clones are white and healthy, but roots on the plants I pull from flowering are brownish and underdeveloped.


Yep, there's a root rot problem. 



> My mother plants (which came from the same batch of clones) had the same lag time when they first started off in veg.
> 
> Now they are big and healthy.


If your mums are started in RW cubes then nested in pellets and the flood line is touching the cube, same problem as described above could be happening. 

Now, once they DO catch on and develop a bunch of rootmass and as such are able to suck up a more significant portion of the water in the medium, they can tolerate more watering. 



> FWIW, I started off using rockwoll (watering once a day) and had the same problem.


Yep, even watering only 1x/day when in pots entirely filled with RW floc can be too much for small plants. 

The surest way to determine the right amount to water is by the weight of the pot. You should not water again until the pot has lost at least half of its water weight. While learning, you can judge this by actually weighing the pots, but you'll eventually get used to the 'feel' of the heft of the pots when they have just been watered and checking again, a day or so down the track. 

Roots in pellets can tolerate quite frequent watering since pellets absorb almost no water. As long as the flood level does not touch the RW cube, 5x/day is fine- for advanced plants, anyway. Plants which have just been introduced to pellets should be flooded only 2-3x/day. Once you see roots out of the pots' drain holes, you can bump up the watering frequency.


----------



## GypsyBush (May 26, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> cool.
> 
> Yanno, I'd have rather thought it would be the other way around. I'm almost without doubt one of the most conservative dope growers you'll ever find. I push very few limits as it were, rather opting for what I _know_ will work for me _and _anyone else. Nothing I do is experimental or unproven.


There is a saying that applies here...

" If I can see farther than other men, it is because I stand on the shoulders of Giants..." I dunno who wrote that...

And YOU are our Giant Al...

All we Fuctheads can build on your experience, and I can only imagine what some of us will be doing 7 years from now...

You have laid the solid foundation many of us will rely upon for furthe exploration and development of new techniques...

And while I know full well you did not invent it, it was YOU who brought it to us...

So credit be given to the guy that carried the water... even if he didn't invent it...lol...


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 26, 2009)

Here's a visual in case my description isn't good enough. 



The flood level must not reach the RW cube!


----------



## SOG (May 26, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> In the exhaust line? Cooling the air you're going to dump outside? To mask heat signature, perhaps? Am I confused?


ty Al, 
since you asked, 
I've build my grow room in my attic
i was originally gonna run my two tents in the open attic space i made
with the coming summer, and the high heat buildup in my attic
it was impossible to run my tents under 120f+ 
i ended up building a whole sealed room in the center of the attic (no walls are external or close to external walls) placing my tents inside
I'm pulling fresh air with a 12" incoming duct directly from outside
i was gonna use the cold air exhausted from my radiator to vent into the attic
this will potentially cool my whole attic down, reduce my AC usage during summer
then in the winter i can use it for heating the attic, again reducing heat coasts in winter time
i don't want to exhaust outside as this will create a heat sig, as you suspected
not to concerned about the lighting sig, i completely eliminated the F.L.I.R/IR capabilities to pick up my rooms heat sig
since i build my room in the center of the already hot attic, I'm camouflaged behind the attic's natural heat buildup signiture
(all walls including ceiling) have first layer of insulation then IR diffusing layer, then the whole room is Sheetrocked then sealed 
on top of that my IR SJ tents are inside that room
lol, I'm writing this and I'm sounding like a freak to myself
but this is just the turn of events
now I'm thinking to use some of the cold air produced can be used to cool my general room area, 
i could then use the air directly from the room to cool the tubes, 
i need to figure a way around my 2 x 12" inline bigblue's 
its all in the diagram i posted and in my grow room journal (links are in my signature)
might have to go with filters instead, then all the exhausted air can be circulated back to the main area room


----------



## SOG (May 26, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> So credit be given to the guy that carried the water... even if he didn't invent it...lol...


right on brother G, you are very good with words i noticed

ohh and by the way...


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 26, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> There is a saying that applies here...
> 
> " If I can see farther than other men, it is because I stand on the shoulders of Giants..." I dunno who wrote that...


Isaac Newton said dat. 



> And YOU are our Giant Al...


 *blush* Thanks. 



> All we Fuctheads can build on your experience, and I can only imagine what some of us will be doing 7 years from now...


If all goes well, you'll be growing as much weed as you like and never stressing about problems... 



> You have laid the solid foundation many of us will rely upon for furthe exploration and development of new techniques...


...because you will understand the basics well enough that you'll be able to troubleshoot any problem you encounter. 



> And while I know full well you did not invent it, it was YOU who brought it to us...
> 
> So credit be given to the guy that carried the water... even if he didn't invent it...lol...


Thanks so much for that.


----------



## xrayspecs (May 26, 2009)

Al B,

in your other faq thread you say 

"The res just needs to stay under 27C as dissolved oxygen is lost readily at and above that temp; considering you need to hold your grow room to 25C, shouldn't be a problem."

But in other threads I have read that the res must stay below 20C, 68f i think it is, to prevent root and general pathogen buildup. People seem to be adding frozen bottles of water to their res to get the temp down. I'm really interested to know if 27C is OK as mine is about 23C and I've been worried about getting root rot. Or does the 20C only apply to DWC, not to dripper or flood/drain and things like that?

Also, how often should I water my week old plants using a waterfarm dripper, the plants are in rockwool cubes and hydroton. I currently have it set too 15 mins on 45 mins off and run it just once for 15mins during lights off, but i am worried that i am watering too much and the rockwool is going to stay too wet and cause problems.

Thanks so much if you can help!


----------



## 10mm fan boy (May 26, 2009)

Yes, all my clones start off in RW cubes.

I started off putting the bottom of my RW cubes 1/2 -3/4" above the flood line. Most of my cubes were dry to the touch and the plants were so bad they only grew about a gram.

Then I started putting the bottoms 1/4 - 1/2" above the flood line and the plants seemed to do better. Is this too close?

So the root rot is deffenatly from over watering?

When I grew in RW it was 4" cubes that only got flooded about an inch. FWIW they did give much better yields but still only about 5g per cola.

I have my mothers setup on a tray just like my flowering tray, but I only flood them 3 times a day.


----------



## LoudBlunts (May 26, 2009)

AL B. GHOST????

or would that be casper?

errrr


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 26, 2009)

BTW, is it just me or are other folx getting this error?



> Network Timeout
> 
> The server at www.rollitup.org is taking too long to respond.
> 
> The requested site did not respond to a connection request and the browser has stopped waiting for a reply.


RIU is timing out for me, usually in the late afternoon USA time, when you yank jokers are getting off work and logging on.

The site is waaaaay slow to respond, when it responds at all instead of timing out. 

Downright annoying, especially when I just need to edit a typo or something requiring a keystroke or two...

It's taking about 5 mins to load a page off RIU. I don't think it's network connectivity as I can ping RIU with reasonable latency times. 




> Pinging rollitup.org [67.220.198.70] with 32 bytes of data:
> 
> Reply from 67.220.198.70: bytes=32 time=176ms TTL=53
> Reply from 67.220.198.70: bytes=32 time=176ms TTL=53
> ...


I'm giving up until it's late night in Nth America. See ya later.


----------



## orzz (May 26, 2009)

Hey Al good to see you online again.
Thanks for all your hard work at promoting the SCIENCE of growing.


----------



## orzz (May 26, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> BTW, is it just me or are other folx getting this error?
> 
> RIU is timing out for me, usually in the late afternoon USA time, when you yank jokers are getting off work and logging on.
> 
> ...


I am having the same problems and error messages.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 26, 2009)

iloveit said:


> hey its cheech & chong coool!


Yep- and they're _still _funny. 

Mind you, Shelby Chong, bless her little cotton socks, is playing 'opening act' for the fellers on the latest tour... and sorry, regardless of how much she adores and cares for Tommy... she's just *NOT* a comedian. If you go to see 'em, you can afford to be about 30 mins late.




SOG said:


> i was gonna use the cold air exhausted from my radiator to vent into the attic
> this will potentially cool my whole attic down, reduce my AC usage during summer
> then in the winter i can use it for heating the attic, again reducing heat coasts in winter time


I see. 

I think I'd use a big attic vent fan to remove the hot air from the attic air surrounding the op. Very common, nothing at all criminal about those. Yes, there will be 'bright' spot on FLIR at the vent fan dump point, but it sure wouldn't constitute probable cause. Cops in the US can't _legally_ FLIR scan your place without a warrant anyway. As such, they sure couldn't use a FLIR scan to get a warrant, either. I'd use your cooler to remove heat only from the grow room. Put the chiller module outside the attic airmass, perhaps in a garage below or something so the heat transferred out of the attic need not be again moved by the whole-attic exhaust fan. . 

Have you ascertained whether you'll actually need to warm the attic ambient air in winter? Solar heat should keep it rather close to acceptable, at least in daytime, depending on the outdoor temps. I think I'd only worry about warming the grow room itself- if it needs it. 

I use a dehumidifier 24/7 in winter and during lights-off in warmer times. The heat it emits is usually enough to keep my winter lights-off temps acceptable. 



xrayspecs said:


> I'm really interested to know if 27C is OK as mine is about 23C and I've been worried about getting root rot. Or does the 20C only apply to DWC, not to dripper or flood/drain and things like that?


27C is as warm as a nute soln should ever be allowed to get. Cooler than that, down to about 16C, is of course better in terms of retaining dissolved O2. 23C should be fine. If that's as warm as it ever gets, I don't think I'd be going to too many heroics to cool it any further. 

Tray-based flood systems don't generally have many problems with nute soln temp as the tanks are shaded, located below the trays. The solution gets cooled a bit when it is pumped into the tray and picked up by the pots of media, too. Drip systems also cool the soln a bit when it is distributed to the pots of pellets. However, one should run airstones in the tanks of either to maximise dissolved O2 in the nute soln. 

DWC/bubbler systems or any other sort where light energy is striking the reservoirs, or any other sort which have continuous pumping via a submerged water pump (i.e. NFT) suffer the most from overwarm nutes and might need some tank cooling.



10mm fan boy said:


> I started off putting the bottom of my RW cubes 1/2 -3/4" above the flood line. Most of my cubes were dry to the touch and the plants were so bad they only grew about a gram.


New clones, with a decent spray of root out of the cube bottoms, which have just been introduced to pellets should have the pellets around the cube (not the cube) hand watered for about the first week. This will encourage the roots to seek into the pellets. If you keep wetting the cube, roots won't seek into the pellets. Keep handwatering pellets around the cube until you see roots out of the pot drain holes. When you're sure the roots have knitted down into the pellets, you can be assured that flooding will be sufficient from then on. 



> Then I started putting the bottoms 1/4 - 1/2" above the flood line and the plants seemed to do better. Is this too close?


I usually quote 1/2" clearance because the floor of most flood trays isn't flat. It's common to see about a 1/2" bow in trays, near the centre drain holes. If the cubes are uniformly 1/2" above the deepest flood level, you can be sure that none of the cubes are getting saturated. However, this does mean that the pots on the perimeter will have their cube bottoms 1" above the flood line. It should only take a few days, a week max, for roots to knit an inch into the pellets, but you may have to handwater for that period to assure that nobody goes dry until that happens. 



> So the root rot is deffenatly from over watering?


Almost always, yes. Root rot is caused by deprivation of O2 from the rootzone, which both starves roots of O2 (potentially killing them outright) and also creates conditions favourable to pythium and fusarium. Dead roots can be food for pathogens. 

If you're applying H2O2, as you say you are, O2 deprivation should be minimal, even if the watering is a bit excessive. Regular application will also keep pathogens suppressed. If your cubes are _definitely_ above the flood level, you should not be saturating the cubes and drowning the roots within them. Roots in pellets can tolerate quite frequent flooding because the pellets don't absorb much water and there's lots of airgaps between the pellets. If you have all those bases covered but are still getting root rot or poor root development, it's a bit of a mystery. However, one thing you can be sure of is that the poor development of the plants is traceable to the poor root development. 



> When I grew in RW it was 4" cubes that only got flooded about an inch. FWIW they did give much better yields but still only about 5g per cola.


Hmm. Interesting that the poor productivity occurs in a completely different medium. What's the chances of you having a lying pH or TDS meter?



> I have my mothers setup on a tray just like my flowering tray, but I only flood them 3 times a day.


What medium do the mums run in?


----------



## 10mm fan boy (May 26, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Hmm. Interesting that the poor productivity occurs in a completely different medium. What's the chances of you having a lying pH or TDS meter?
> 
> What medium do the mums run in?


Now that I think about it, I only did one batch in RW cubes before switching to hydroton. I said I only got 5g per cola, but it was my first attempt at SOG also. My only other operation was with DWC. 

I have a Hanna Ph/temp and a Hanna Ph/ppm combo. I check with both from time to time to make sure they both give the same Ph. They seem to be good

The mothers are in 6" pots in hydroton.

Also what is your opinion about air stones putting spores, etc into the res? I don't have one yet.


----------



## SOG (May 26, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Have you ascertained whether you'll actually need to warm the attic ambient air in winter?


yes for sure bra, 
the attic will get down to the 50f/10c during night times, and over 120f/49c during the day
only been observing recently, we're in spring time here in CA
I'd expect much lower temps in the attic, during winter time
ill need to go over my plans and see how ill modify the setup 
now that i have the option to cool down/warm the room
with the exhausting hot air, it opens up a whole lot of options

I'm gonna try and keep everything inside the general room area 30ft/10m x 15ft/5m
ill be taping every appliance that exhaust heat, into my main exhaust
gonna make a duct transition from sheet metal 
to fit the back or which ever end that's exhausting
so non or minimal hot air is exhausted anywhere in the general room
now originally i was gonna dump this with a 12"/30sm duct outside the attic
like you said, they cant flir my house without a warrant 
but its enough that one LEO notices from the air, 
he sure can and will give a fellow LEO a tip/lead 
I'd rather be on the safe side on this, 
and completely remain stealth to the outside world
i think its best to leave the heat in the attic to camouflage my room's sig


----------



## dirtysteve (May 26, 2009)

Hey Al,
Just a quick one before you slip off into the night again. I have a 3'x4' flowering area. 2 2'X3' tables. A 4 or 5 week rotation. I am going to be cramming around 50 lollypops in there. The question is 600W or 1000W? Actually just wondering what you would do. Either way the light will be air cooled by A/C air from inside the house. I understand the 50W/ft^2 which puts the 600W at the minimum for the space. Thing is, I am leaning towards the 1KW just because I do not want anything fluffy. I want only the most dense of buttery nugs. Thanks.


----------



## Greyskull (May 26, 2009)

cannot answer for al, but imo mo light mo betta


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## GypsyBush (May 27, 2009)

Chopped 16 ladies this morning...

My rotation is finally getting established... well sort of... I still need to fine tune it...

The goal is to pull 24 lollies down every week...

4x 600w - 48 clones under each... a far cry from the Aerogarden days .. eh?!?!


----------



## WoldofWeedcraft (May 27, 2009)

Dammit gypsy talk about single colas. Those colas are nice...no branching out at all. How in the hell...


----------



## GypsyBush (May 27, 2009)

WoldofWeedcraft said:


> Dammit gypsy talk about single colas. Those colas are nice...no branching out at all. How in the hell...




Thanks!

It's called SCISSORS... 

But seriously... really...

May I suggest a quick read?


Get a harvest every 2 weeks kiss-ass


----------



## iloveit (May 27, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Chopped 16 ladies this morning...
> 
> My rotation is finally getting established... well sort of... I still need to fine tune it...
> 
> ...


Hey gypsy, what is the size of those pots in volume or in dimensions?
Do you cut the side branches during the 1st or 3rd week of flowering. I think I ve asked you before but cant find the post.


----------



## WoldofWeedcraft (May 27, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Thanks!
> 
> It's called SCISSORS...
> 
> ...


I'm very familiar with the technique, just never been able to pull it off quite like that yet. I mean that cola starts below the top of the pepsi can...no branching. Very well done.


----------



## GypsyBush (May 27, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Hey gypsy, what is the size of those pots in volume or in dimensions?
> Do you cut the side branches during the 1st or 3rd week of flowering. I think I ve asked you before but cant find the post.


My pots are 5.5" x 5.5" x 7" tall... or... 14cm x 14cm x 18cm tall...

I cut branches when I cut my clones, then pretty much anytime I see anything stretch over 1"...

I am not big on watches or calendars... but I want no branches, so whenever I see one, I chop it off...lol..



WoldofWeedcraft said:


> I'm very familiar with the technique, just never been able to pull it off quite like that yet. I mean that cola starts below the top of the pepsi can...no branching. Very well done.


Thanks!

I hope I didn't come out sounding like an ass... I do that a lot without meaning to.....

One thing that I have noticed is that when I chop the branches on the top 2/3 , if I do not chop it at the stem, and I leave that budsite by cutting the branch 1/8" (3cm) from the main stalk... I will get the buds to form along the stalk... and they are all pretty dense...

If I had patience, I bet that thing would fill in completely... but I am not...lol...

Cheers...


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 27, 2009)

LoudBlunts said:


> AL B. GHOST????
> 
> or would that be casper?


 hay LB, wozzup? 

No ghosts here. They really hate people who think the supernatural is ridiculous bunkum. And they'll haunt you until you go mad. Or grow dope. 



orzz said:


> Hey Al good to see you online again.
> Thanks for all your hard work at promoting the SCIENCE of growing.


 Thanks, orzz, I'm _truly_ only visiting and will be bailing off RIU soon. Just got ahead of my usual workload and have a few spare days this week. Truly, science is always your best friend. If it's science, you can replicate it yourself and use it to sniff out the difference between evil bullshit and yummy composted cow manure.



dirtysteve said:


> Hey Al,
> Just a quick one before you slip off into the night again. I have a 3'x4' flowering area. 2 2'X3' tables.


 Isn't that 4'x6'?



> A 4 or 5 week rotation. I am going to be cramming around 50 lollypops in there. The question is 600W or 1000W?


 I need a clarification on how big your lighted space actually is before I launch in, to be honest.



> Actually just wondering what you would do. Either way the light will be air cooled by A/C air from inside the house.


 If you're going to use cooltubes (and I highly recommend them), they don't need a feed form the aircon, in fact, that's a bit wasteful. A cooltube doesn't care about the difference between low-humidity, ~10C air and 20-30C ambient. Cooltubes should take their intake air from outside the room's airmass and dump it outside the room as well, taking care to be organised such as not to re-draw cooltube exhaust right back into the intake. 



> I understand the 50W/ft^2 which puts the 600W at the minimum for the space. Thing is, I am leaning towards the 1KW just because I do not want anything fluffy. I want only the most dense of buttery nugs. Thanks.


 All depends on the actual size of the the area you need to light. As a rule, a 1000 in a cooltube will kick the pants off a 600 because both can each be spaced about the same distance from the leaves. Also as a rule, fewer ballasts are gooder. There's eddy current wastage in iron core ballasts which can be minimised by using fewer, bigger lights. In example, a 600HPS draws about 665-670W from the mains and makes about 95,000 initial lumens. A 1000 makes about 150,000lm and draws about 1100W from the mains. However, it may be better to use a pair of 600s, depending on the size & shape of the tray space.



GypsyBush said:


> 4x 600w - 48 clones under each... a far cry from the Aerogarden days .. eh?!?!


 Wowwwww, niiiice work, GB.  Very pretty.  Aerogarbage users, take note... 



WoldofWeedcraft said:


> I'm very familiar with the technique, just never been able to pull it off quite like that yet. I mean that cola starts below the top of the pepsi can...no branching. Very well done.


 Well, you got your answer as to how that's accomplished- scissors! Trim off any branching that appears on the lower 1/3 of the plants. The end of wks 1 & 3 is about the right time to prune in most cases, but regardless of specifically _when _you prune, the point is to not allow any branching more than 1" long to remain on the plants. Restricts airflow and small lower branches tend to produce popcorny buds.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 27, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Isn't that 4'x6'?


No Al, ya *fuckwit*, it's not. 

_More coffee...!_ 

For a 3'x4' space, I'd probably use a 1000, but a 600 would of course be fine. A 1000 will give you better nugs on the fringe of the coverage area because of the much higher light intensity and thus foliar penetration of a 1000. A 600 will save you some cash on the power bill, tho.


----------



## GypsyBush (May 27, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Wowwwww, niiiice work, GB.  Very pretty.


Thanks Al...  (wish I could frame this...lol..)

It's all you though!!!

Wish I had a hot wife and her sister to offer you... (like Bugs did..lol...)

I owe A LOT of what I accomplished to you... !kiss-ass...lol...

Here is another Gypsy Bud for you... and the moms too...lol... (I like pics...lol..) Ah hell... here's a bunch of pics...lol...

Cheers...


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 27, 2009)

Lovely work, GB. Well done.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 27, 2009)

Just a quick note for those who have lodged 'friend' requests for me. Please don't be offended, but I can't approve these. It's not because I don't like you, it's because if I approve friend reqs, I start getting bucketed with PMs. I don't like to use PMs because things I discuss privately invariably would be better discussed with the entire group. It's not unusual for several ppl to ask me the same question via PM at the same time. I just wind up retyping the same answer or comment numerous times. Moreover, I REALLY AM just visiting and I'm going to have to get back on my regular work here in the next day or two. I happen to have a little spare time for a few days, but I can't get back into running discussions which will lead to me again putting 6-8 hours a day into pot boards, an indulgence I just don't usually have time for anymore. 

Sorry, hope I haven't disappointed or annoyed anyone.


----------



## knucklehead (May 27, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> BTW, is it just me or are other folx getting this error?
> 
> RIU is timing out for me, usually in the late afternoon USA time, when you yank jokers are getting off work and logging on.
> 
> ...


i think the database needs some tlc. i get the same results here in the us.

have you ever considered using the lucas formula in your sog since you can run the same mix for a while. i just started with it and has helped me a ton. mixing three parts for different phase was too much for me.

thanks.


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## dirtysteve (May 27, 2009)

Thanks Al. Yeah, 3'X4'. The reason I was going to use A/C air from the house was because my attic gets to 120F+++ in the summer here. I figured it wouldn't be much help to put hotter air through the tubes than I want in the room. But I have been thinking about the waste of good high dollar a/c air. Maybe I could bring cooler air from under the house then exhaust into the attic. All I know is ambient temps here in the summer have no business in my op.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 27, 2009)

knucklehead said:


> have you ever considered using the lucas formula in your sog since you can run the same mix for a while. i just started with it and has helped me a ton. mixing three parts for different phase was too much for me.


No, I've never messed with Lucas nor any 3-part nutes. The current recipe for all my flowering tanks is 300ml each Canna Flores parts A & B in each 125L tank, 50% grade H2O2 @ 1ml/L (125ml per tank) on mixing and every 3-4 days afterward and a few ml of pHDown, varies as needed, since my tapwater pH wanders depending on local rainfall (water treatment plant must change their scheme when we've had a lot of rain). Yields about 1000ppm. Gets no simpler. 



dirtysteve said:


> Thanks Al. Yeah, 3'X4'. The reason I was going to use A/C air from the house was because my attic gets to 120F+++ in the summer here. I figured it wouldn't be much help to put hotter air through the tubes than I want in the room. But I have been thinking about the waste of good high dollar a/c air. Maybe I could bring cooler air from under the house then exhaust into the attic. All I know is ambient temps here in the summer have no business in my op.


Yep, I see your point. Drawing cooltube air from elsewhere and dumping it in the attic sounds like a good idea as long as there's decent attic vents to let it out. 120F air would still cool the tubes (somewhat) and remove some of the lighting heat, but would also warm up the cooltube glass & ductwork, convecting heat into the room. Best avoided, as you note. 

I understand why you're using your attic, but it's an immensely challenging place to locate a grow. We haven't even touched on accessibility for watering & other maint, protection of the ceilings below in case of spills and so on. If ya gotta use your attic, ya gotta use it, but it gets sorta workish.


----------



## MR M3RKLEZz (May 27, 2009)

is anyone in this thred still


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 27, 2009)

ds, I meant also to make a note about FLIR. It's not legal for coppers to FLIR scan your house without a warrant and there's good reason for that. There's any number of reasons for hotspots to indicate on FLIR, unrelated to running a grow. By itself, a FLIR scan cannot possibly constitute probable cause, due to all the uncertainty. FLIR imagery MAY be used to support a warrant application *IF* the coppers already have *other* evidence indicating drug activity on the premises, but by itself will not pass muster with any well-informed judge. Flying over a neighbourhood with FLIR in a heli, randomly scanning rooftops is akin to walking snifferdogs around every house in the neighbourhood. They're both 'searches' in US legal terms and you have a US constitutional protection against police interference and unreasonable search & seizure, unless you are reasonably suspected of a crime. The only exception I can think of where the Supreme Court has upheld a public interest in a warrantless search is in breath-testing roadblocks.

FLIR is not an x-ray. It really has rather poor resolution compared to visual. You can't look through a wall and see the outline of an HPS bottle with FLIR. FLIR is a surface temp thermometer. It'll show the temp of the surface of whatever it's looking at but not the cause of that warmth. Can't hurt to consider thermal signature, but I'd worry a lot more about nosy neighbours & meter readers noticing scent and fan noise before I went to any major heroics to eliminate IR signatures.


----------



## MR M3RKLEZz (May 27, 2009)

just wanna find out how to actually talk 2 someone to ask some questions


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 27, 2009)

Just start a thread in the relevant forum. Someone will chime in, hopefully one of the more knowledgeable folks.


----------



## MR M3RKLEZz (May 27, 2009)

yaeh nice 1


----------



## MediMary (May 27, 2009)

Hi gypsy.. hey that first bud shot you just posted(3rd picture from the top) is that blueberry?


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 27, 2009)

one more on FLIR... if you're insanely curious as to what your place looks like on FLIR, you can rent FLIR cameras. Check Google or the phone book for scientific measurement equipment rentals in your area. It'll cost you about $200-300 for a day's use, but if it makes you sleep better, go for it.


----------



## MediMary (May 27, 2009)

hey Al.. what proxy do you use


----------



## dirtysteve (May 27, 2009)

Sorry for the confusion Al. The grow is in the house not the attic. just using the attic to vent into/through. I am going to pump carbon filtered air through a roof vent. The only thing I was going to dump in the attic was the heat from the cool tubes. This is my set up https://www.rollitup.org/introduce-yourself/173590-sup-foos.html 
I am not using a 400W HPS for mothers, rather a 250W MH. Other than that it is pretty legit. No multiple strains until I get one dialed in. Thinking Cheese from AMS. Any way. Thats what I got.


----------



## 10mm fan boy (May 27, 2009)

When I mix up a new batch of soup, I put the H202 in the water first and then wait 20 min. before I add anything else. Is this necessary?

If so, what about when I add new H202 every 3-4 days? Should I NOT be adding it full strength like I have been?

Can you please confirm if an air stone will introduce pathogens or anything bad into the water or not?

thanks
10


----------



## GypsyBush (May 27, 2009)

MediMary said:


> Hi gypsy.. hey that first bud shot you just posted(3rd picture from the top) is that blueberry?


Sorry Bro... it's Bagseed... 

And since I am shameless... everyone here knows that...lol...

I just want to say THANK YOU! to AL B. FUCT...

I have 2 months with an Aerogarden and 5 months doing Ebb Flow...

A grand total of 7 months + Al's teachings = what you see here...

This is a more current view of things... taken 2 days ago...

If I can do it, ANYONE can...

THANK YOU AL!!!



So we'll start with the group shots





































































































... and we move on to the portraits...























































































































































































Ps. I promise to stop clogging the airways now..


----------



## iloveit (May 27, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> one more on FLIR... if you're insanely curious as to what your place looks like on FLIR, you can rent FLIR cameras. Check Google or the phone book for scientific measurement equipment rentals in your area. It'll cost you about $200-300 for a day's use, but if it makes you sleep better, go for it.


Ive been asking many people about FLIR but they didnt quite know what advice to give, you summed it up & about the FLIR camera rental why didnt I think of that?
Your words are always constructive iloveit!

Thanks again uncle Al 


Im planning a grow op in a new house where Ill be blowing all the heat from the grow room & the cool tubes to another dormant room where itll be cooled with an air conditioner then extracted outdoors. Im just wondering if the air will be cooled fast enough before it sucked outdoors otherwise the itll be pointless. Do you have any methods or advice to achieve the aim?

Sorry if my explanations rusty...to busy getting high during those tuition lessons in English back in the day.


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## Al B. Fuct (May 27, 2009)

MediMary said:


> hey Al.. what proxy do you use


I use a private, paid VPN with POPs in the US & UK. I'd never use a 'free' proxy. Many (if not most) of them are honeypots designed to harvest passwords, credit card numbers and any other private data they can get. There's no such thing as a free lunch- ever.

Yes, the sysop of a free proxy and that of a paid relay service both have equal access to whatever plaintext I run through them. However, the big difference between a free service and a pay-for-play VPN is that the paid service is legally beholden in the contract I have with them to not violate my privacy- and I can hang 'em from the legal lampposts if they do. The freebie outfits generally disclaim any liability in lieu of you being able to use their 'free' service. 



dirtysteve said:


> Sorry for the confusion Al. The grow is in the house not the attic. just using the attic to vent into/through. I am going to pump carbon filtered air through a roof vent. The only thing I was going to dump in the attic was the heat from the cool tubes.


Oh, ok, I see! Yes, dumping waste air into a large intermediate airmass like an attic or crawlspace is a great way to go. This both drops the temp of the waste air and distributes it more or less evenly through several vents. This is a very good way to mask the IR sig of the exhaust air.



10mm fan boy said:


> When I mix up a new batch of soup, I put the H202 in the water first and then wait 20 min. before I add anything else. Is this necessary?


No. H2O2 is highly miscible in water and will mix in very quickly. 




10mm fan boy said:


> Can you please confirm if an air stone will introduce pathogens or anything bad into the water or not?


Bacteria, virii, mould & fungus spores are absolutely everywhere on this planet. An awful lot more of them will simply drop out of the air and into your open topped tank than will ever get drawn through an air pump, though, merely by virtue of the difference in area between the air pump intake and the area of the surface of the water in the tank. If you're using H2O2, pathogens are not a problem anyway, no matter what way they get into the tank. 




GypsyBush said:


> I just want to say THANK YOU! to AL B. FUCT...


You're welcome! 



iloveit said:


> Ive been asking many people about FLIR but they didnt quite know what advice to give, you summed it up & about the FLIR camera rental why didnt I think of that?
> Your words are always constructive iloveit!
> 
> Thanks again uncle Al



We aim to please. 




iloveit said:


> Im planning a grow op in a new house where Ill be blowing all the heat from the grow room & the cool tubes to another dormant room where itll be cooled with an air conditioner then extracted outdoors. Im just wondering if the air will be cooled fast enough before it sucked outdoors otherwise the itll be pointless. Do you have any methods or advice to achieve the aim?


Let me see if I have you right... duct out of op, into a room with a window aircon unit, then have a window open to allow the pressure from the op's main blower to escape outdoors, right? If you don't leave a window open in that room, the air ducted to the room's got nowhere to go and airflow from the op will slow or stop. Where there's a goesin, there's got to be a goesout- or it goesnowhere. I'd rather see you dump waste air into an attic as dirtysteve plans. The intermediate attic airmass, simply by virtue of being big and poorly insulated from atmospheric, will spread out the heat from the op and drop its temperature. The numerous attic vents will then distribute the cooled air out to the atmosphere, making it a lot harder to discern as a grow op exhaust. Venting into the attic will also muffle the exhaust fan noise quite a lot.


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## MediMary (May 27, 2009)

do you have a recommended company to use for proxy.. (sorry im not to computer savy) I havnt posted any of my grows before, but this next go around I will once I figure this out.. 
thanks again al, for everything you have done for RIU...
big hug


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## Al B. Fuct (May 27, 2009)

None particularly; I can't really tell you who I am using, either. Just find a VPN service that doesn't cost much (under $100/yr) and lets you move as much data as you need to without excess data fees.


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## SOG (May 27, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Pinging rollitup.org [67.220.198.70] with 32 bytes of data:
> 
> Reply from 67.220.198.70: bytes=32 time=176ms TTL=53
> Reply from 67.220.198.70: bytes=32 time=176ms TTL=53
> ...


your prob getting these network timeouts due to your VPN tunneling (clients are usually very sensetive)
i suggest you increase your TTL to 255, make sure your MTU is set properly
you can also activate MTU discovery and or black hole detection


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## DeweyKox (May 28, 2009)

Dam, I just ping the same ip and get good result. On wifi too. But my probelm is my DNS issues with the new firmware in my router, should have never fucked with it!


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## Al B. Fuct (May 28, 2009)

SOG said:


> your prob getting these network timeouts due to your VPN tunneling


I'd agree with you if other RIU users weren't also having problems, independent of ping times. I can disable routing through VPN and still have problems accessing RIU. It's not network connectivity- it looks more like the server running RIU can't cope with the number of access reqs.


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## iloveit (May 28, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> I use a private, paid VPN with POPs in the US & UK. I'd never use a 'free' proxy. Many (if not most) of them are honeypots designed to harvest passwords, credit card numbers and any other private data they can get. There's no such thing as a free lunch- ever.
> 
> Yes, the sysop of a free proxy and that of a paid relay service both have equal access to whatever plaintext I run through them. However, the big difference between a free service and a pay-for-play VPN is that the paid service is legally beholden in the contract I have with them to not violate my privacy- and I can hang 'em from the legal lampposts if they do. The freebie outfits generally disclaim any liability in lieu of you being able to use their 'free' service.
> 
> ...


Ah yes, is there any reason to cool the air in the attic to lower the temp of the air flowing outside to decrease heat signature?


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## ldnsharkkid (May 28, 2009)

Hey Al....

Dunno if you remember me but i started growing and posting on RIU back in september last year and asked you a few questions which u kindly responded to, and then just when i got to grips with things you left RIU but luckily all ur threads are still here otherwise i would have been doomed. 

Ok at the time i had an XXL Budbox growin some Great White Shark, which i eventually pulled about 300g's off which wasnt bad for my 1st ever grow and it was some dank ass bud....

Now ive moved onto bigger and better things and i based my current setup on your 'get a harvest every 2 weeks' thread. The only difference is i stuck with budbox's instead of sealing off a room completely, and i think its worked out quite well. Ive got 2 trays up and runnin im about to stcik in the 3rd tray as i have 30 rooted clones......but i do have a few q's for you if you would be so kind as to lend me your opinion....

1) Have u never thought of using an aerocloner? My OP is exactly the same as yours in theory, 4 tables 2 weeks etc, except i use an aerocloner and i get perfect roots within 10 days. I only ask because i know you have to ater your rockwool everyday and im guessing it can be a pain, whereas the aerocloner simply chop them put them in the cloner and voila massive roots 10 days later.....??

2) Instead of using 2 x 1000w lights i have used 4 x 600w (only 3 up and runnin at mo over 3 tbls) in cooltubes but with the standard crappy cooltube reflector, do you think if i made some batwing reflector this would increase growth/yield?

3) Are u still using same nutes ie Canna Vega Flores and PK 13/14 and nothing else?

4) I have been waitin to find someone who grows mothers aswell as im havin problems keepin my mothers so short, my mothers at mo are burnin on the cooltube at times until i prune and i cant get it any higher, whats the trick? How long does a rooted clone take to mature enough to be able to donate cuttings?

I know i speak for a lot of people on RIU and other silent users aswell but you have provided a lot of people with inspiration to go hydro and learn what needs to be learnt in terms of ppm, ph, lighting, venting, etc etc......and i hope that you have been enjoying life since you left and that u are achieving everything you wanted to. I actually used your name in my grow jounal title, as it is solely based on your op and currently im about to get my 1st harvest in about a week. Unfortunately its not fully up and running for every 2 weeks but it will be soon, so the next harvest is 3 weeks after the 1st batch and then after that it should be every 2 weeks, but have a look in my journal in my sig and see what you think.

Oh and lastly just another Q if im not bothering you too much....i havent cut bottom 1/3rd of any of my plants as ive been a bit afraid to, does it make a massive difference and or what effects does it have on the plant during the flowering period.....

Thanks again Al sorry for the long post its just i never thought id have the chance to pick ur brains again and now i see your back for a week, so i wanna gain as much knowledge as i can before ur gone again.......

Regardless of growing or forums etc i hope you are enjoying yourself on ur new adventure be safe and be lucky....

kiss-asskiss-asskiss-asskiss-ass


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## SOG (May 28, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> I'd agree with you if other RIU users weren't also having problems, independent of ping times. I can disable routing through VPN and still have problems accessing RIU. It's not network connectivity- it looks more like the server running RIU can't cope with the number of access reqs.


you are correct Al. the server cannot handle with the traffic
and so it Spools and FIFO the clients sessions, with long latencies 
it is your VPN client that cuts off the waiting period
i rarely get timed out, not to say the site inst slow at time
the server maintains the sessions 90% of the time

you can check on any site up time and status here


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## Roseman (May 28, 2009)

Al, you have the patience of Job.


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## Al B. Fuct (May 28, 2009)

SOG said:


> it is your VPN client that cuts off the waiting period


 Once more with feeling: the problem occurs for either WITH or WITHOUT piping through my VPN. Other users who are not using VPN are having the problem. It's RIU's server, NOT network connectivity probs. 



Roseman said:


> Al, you have the patience of Job.


 Not true! I'm impatient with _all_ Jobs, notably Steve. 



iloveit said:


> Ah yes, is there any reason to cool the air in the attic to lower the temp of the air flowing outside to decrease heat signature?


 Depends upon how much heat you're dumping. If you've got 10kW of lighting, it might be worth doing. Also, if you're running that much light, you're commercial enough to have an awful lot to lose- and also to be able to afford the heroics. If you have a couple kW of lighting, no, it's probably not worth doing. 

pssst- you quoted a lot more text than you wrote. Pls consider if it's necessary to quote that much, or at all. 



ldnsharkkid said:


> 1) Have u never thought of using an aerocloner?


I've never had good luck with them. If you do, cool. 



> do you think if i made some batwing reflector this would increase growth/yield?


A larger reflector will direct light presently illuminating your walls onto your plants. how much difference will that make? Hard to tell, really. More light is gooder in all cases, though.



> 3) Are u still using same nutes ie Canna Vega Flores and PK 13/14 and nothing else?


yep


> 4) I have been waitin to find someone who grows mothers aswell as im havin problems keepin my mothers so short, my mothers at mo are burnin on the cooltube at times until i prune and i cant get it any higher, whats the trick?


When you're pruning up the mums after doing a batch of cuttings, be ruthless. Don't allow the mums to get tall. You can take off almost all the foliage (bar a few leaves) on the mum and it will still rebound enough togive you plenty of cuts in 2 weeks. 



> How long does a rooted clone take to mature enough to be able to donate cuttings?


Depending on the vigor of the new mum, around 2-4 weeks post putting it under some serious light. 



> Oh and lastly just another Q if im not bothering you too much....i havent cut bottom 1/3rd of any of my plants as ive been a bit afraid to, does it make a massive difference and or what effects does it have on the plant during the flowering period.....


Removing the branching on the lower 1/3 of the flowering plants definitely makes a huge difference. You waste a lot less time manicuring silly little popcorn buds from the lowers which yield very poorly compared to those higher up the stem, but which still take as much time to manicure as the uppers. Proper pruning of lower branching removes obstruction to airflow around the plants, reducing the possibility of powdery mildew and other probs. It also allows you to get more stalks in the strongest part of the light pattern. I agree that it's hard to establish the habit of removing the lower branches, but you're not giving away much yield in exchange for better avg bud size and less time spent mucking about manicuring popcorn.

BTW, have I ever told you how much I hate this smiley?



> kiss-ass


Just so you know, I hate it a LOT.


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## Roseman (May 28, 2009)

I think you're attracting all the posters that were told to "get fuct" !!! LOL


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## Al B. Fuct (May 28, 2009)

Nah Rosey- it's _GOOD_ to get fuct! Ask anyone!


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## orzz (May 28, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Nah Rosey- it's _GOOD_ to get fuct! Ask anyone!


ROFLMAO


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## SOG (May 29, 2009)

My Sealed Room Configuration
No outdoors air is entering or leaving the room
individual Tents are located inside the main sealed room
I'd love to get some feedback from our expert panel before i move on to deploy
Thanks in advance

SoG




(click image to download larger version, or links to my journal in my sig)


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## orzz (May 29, 2009)

SOG said:


> My Sealed Room Configuration
> No outdoors air is entering or leaving the room
> individual Tents are located inside the main sealed room
> I'd love to get some feedback from our expert panel before i move on to deploy
> ...


That is sharp! Nicely done.
I don't see any airstones in the 48 gallon circular rez. I bet all your rezs have airstones?
I use an Ionic Breeze in the room where my flower tent is and it DOES help with the aroma.
TOTALLY AWESOME SET UP!!!


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## SOG (May 29, 2009)

orzz said:


> That is sharp! Nicely done.
> I don't see any airstones in the 48 gallon circular rez. I bet all your rezs have airstones?
> I use an Ionic Breeze in the room where my flower tent is and it DOES help with the aroma.
> TOTALLY AWESOME SET UP!!!


ty orzz
yep missed that one, i have 1 ECO4 and one ECO8 air pumps
each "site res" will have a 12" air stones
and the main 48g tank has 4x12" in it with a 699 pump circulating
(you can catch those air stones pictures in my journal, under my equipment section  )


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## orzz (May 29, 2009)

SOG that really is a well thought out OP! Really  impressive.

Nice stuff in the "equipment section". In your picture of 5/11 it shows the tent in a garage and there seems to be a mat on the floor. What are you using as a mat?


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## orzz (May 29, 2009)

Are you using the Tall Blue as a prefilter for the Merlin?


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## SOG (May 29, 2009)

orzz said:


> In your picture of 5/11 it shows the tent in a garage and there seems to be a mat on the floor. What are you using as a mat?


its called - Gold's Gym Equipment Mat
$18.77 - 6 puzzle pieces 48.0 x 48.0 x 5.0 at Walmart









orzz said:


> Are you using the Tall Blue as a prefilter for the Merlin?


yes


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## iloveit (May 29, 2009)

Its 2:30am & I just finished trimming my first harvest, it took me *15 fucking hours* to cut off a many leaves as possible. Are there any cheap devices/machine I can use to make the trimming process less time consuming?


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## Mitus (May 29, 2009)

Yo Al ! Just wanted to say what up and thank you! Its cats like you that got me on my way. I started off with a shitty little homemade drip system... then moved on to homemade aerotubs (currently in week 5 flower)... and check out this NFT/aero setup im making  . 

I was wondering... what is your opinion on aero spray vs fog ? I'm testing some stuff on the side with these little fogger units i got online and the root growth is insaine!

-Mitus


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## DeweyKox (May 29, 2009)

Nice setup and upgrade Mitus! Keep us posted!


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## Greyskull (May 30, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Its 2:30am & I just finished trimming my first harvest, it took me *15 fucking hours* to cut off a many leaves as possible. Are there any cheap devices/machine I can use to make the trimming process less time consuming?


 
haha I HATE TRIMMING

I bought Trimbox machine, and I get pretty good results. Trimming is a 2 part process the way I do it, but its not nearly as labor intensive, and its not nearly the time sucker manually trimming is.

https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/172586-greyskulls-trimbox-technique.html


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## Al B. Fuct (May 30, 2009)

SOG said:


> My Sealed Room Configuration
> No outdoors air is entering or leaving the room


How are you getting CO2 in there? 


> (click image to download larger version, or links to my journal in my sig)


 tried to click the img for the larger ver but it's a .zip and my Winzip said it was a bad file. :/



iloveit said:


> Its 2:30am & I just finished trimming my first harvest, it took me *15 fucking hours* to cut off a many leaves as possible. Are there any cheap devices/machine I can use to make the trimming process less time consuming?


 Yep, manicuring is a bitch of a job. There are trimmers out there like the Aardvark and a few others, but they leave too much leaf on the buds for my tastes. If you're doing regular poundage, you might just get an Aardvark and tell everyone that there's just as much resin on the small bud leaves... which is true... but it just looks untidy.



Mitus said:


> Yo Al ! Just wanted to say what up and thank you! Its cats like you that got me on my way. I started off with a shitty little homemade drip system... then moved on to homemade aerotubs (currently in week 5 flower)... and check out this NFT/aero setup im making  .
> 
> I was wondering... what is your opinion on aero spray vs fog ? I'm testing some stuff on the side with these little fogger units i got online and the root growth is insaine!


Good to hear you're up & going. 

Piezoelectric foggers for aquariums have a bad habit of collecting nute salts on their diaphragms, which can cause them to fail. There's some newer foggers out there with Teflon coated diaphragms, probably intended for aero; seems to me that these would be more reliable, but I haven't tried them out yet. Rotsaruck.


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## Greyskull (May 30, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> tell everyone that there's just as much resin on the small bud leaves... which is true... but it just looks untidy.


yeah its good smokable weight. definately unlike leaving fan leaves or stem in regards to "weight ethics".

some people like a little more fat on their steak than others


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## SOG (May 30, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> How are you getting CO2 in there?


Thank you Al
i have 2 x Co2 tanks up there (you will see it placed inside each tent, in the larger version)



> my Winzip said it was a bad file. :/


downloaded the file again to verify, 
its extracting on my machine with no problems
attached my recent revision, i hope this one works!

i cant upload an image larger than 900x900, i can attach a zip file up to a 97k
i can squeeze few more bites into it the zip; so you guys can actually read the diagram

Thanks again Al, much appreciated


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## Al B. Fuct (May 30, 2009)

SOG said:


> Thank you Al
> i have 2 x Co2 tanks up there (you will see it placed inside each tent, in the larger version)


yep, gotcha. I didn't think you'd overlook that, you're so stunningly thorough with everything else! 



> attached my recent revision, i hope this one works!


It does, thanks. Nice work.


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## iloveit (May 30, 2009)

Look what I found: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY_P8kW99lU

Im not sure if I would treat my stock like that though.


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## iloveit (May 30, 2009)

2 questions Al:

*1)* Does it matter that some of the hanging buds in my dryer are lightly touching each other?

*2)* I think Im drying the buds to quickly, could you read the below paragraphs & give your input please.

The buds have been drying for 14 hours & the popcorn buds (at the base of the drying chamber in the pic) already feel dry to the touch & light in weight I think it may be drying to quickly. Though the stems on the hanging buds are still moist & bendy.

*These are the dimensions to my dry chamber: 46 x 45 x 77cm (H X D X W). 
And the inline fan sucking the air out of the chamber is at 107 m3/hour (30 l/s).*
Im thinking of connecting a timer to the fan so its on for 1 min & off for 5 mins (kindda like how you set the waering schedule in aeroponics), Hopefully this willprevent the buds from drying too fast.


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## DeweyKox (May 30, 2009)

*OK guys, its official. Here is the Link! *

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/198788-zero-veg-clone-grow-contest.html


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## orzz (May 30, 2009)

DeweyKox said:


> *OK guys, its official. Here is the Link! *
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/198788-zero-veg-clone-grow-contest.html


Damn dude did you post on every thread?  
lol


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## DeweyKox (May 30, 2009)

Hellz ya, I want to make sure everyone has the rules and does not forget!


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## SOG (May 30, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> It does, thanks. Nice work.


Thank you for taking the time Al, you're very kind
i think I'm headed to uncharted water with my sealed room setup
was hoping someone will critic or maybe find errors with my design or something
its like a desert since i posted, no one seems to have experience with this type of setup
or to shay to comment


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## Al B. Fuct (May 30, 2009)

iloveit said:


> 2 questions Al:
> 
> *1)* Does it matter that some of the hanging buds in my dryer are lightly touching each other?


If your drying box has an exhaust fan and an adequately sized intake port (or an intake fan), it'll be fine. Air motion from the fan will stop any mould, even where a few buds may be touching one another. I would not use a timer on the fan. You are counting upon air motion to stop mould. The buds will be susceptible to mould while they are still damp to touch, so run the fan constantly until they're rather stiff to the touch, with just a bit of flex remaining in the stems. 



> *2)* I think Im drying the buds to quickly, could you read the below paragraphs & give your input please.
> 
> The buds have been drying for 14 hours & the popcorn buds (at the base of the drying chamber in the pic) already feel dry to the touch & light in weight I think it may be drying to quickly. Though the stems on the hanging buds are still moist & bendy.


Naturally, your buds will dry from the outside in. The outsides will soonest feel quite stiff to the touch, but the stems may remain soft & flexible due to the remaining water content. At that point, you can put them in a sealed plastic (tupperware type) container and allow the moisture from the stems to wick into the very dry outer parts of the buds. You could also simply shut off the box's fan and wait a day or so until the moisture wicks into the dry bits. If the buds are too soft for your liking when the moisture has wicked, turn the fan back on for another day or two. 

Even if you do overdry your buds (until they are crispy & fragile), it's easy to rehydrate them. Just put a teaspoon of water on a paper towel and nest the towel in with your buds in a sealed container for a day. A couple of just snipped, fresh fan leaves can be substituted for the paper towel. The buds will return to being nice & springy. Don't be tempted to use fruit peels for this job. 

The worst thing you can do when drying buds is to expose them to sunlight or temps above 29C, at which point THC begins to decompose into non-psychoactive components. I didn't see any mention of a heater in your dryer box, so that shouldn't be a problem for you. A box with a fan will do fine. It'll take about 4-6 days to dry your buds, depending on the humidity of the air being drawn through the box.


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## Al B. Fuct (May 30, 2009)

SOG said:


> Thank you for taking the time Al, you're very kind
> i think I'm headed to uncharted water with my sealed room setup
> was hoping someone will critic or maybe find errors with my design or something


No worries, happy to be of some help if I can.

You're not _quite_ in uncharted waters per se; totally sealed ops _have_ been done before- I've done a couple and I'm sure I'm not alone! 

I did one in a storage room in the sub-basement of a BMF apartment bldg, where there was no possibility of ducting airflow through the grow. All solid concrete walls, no windows. All I had to work with to remove heat was a mop sink. I modified an air conditioner unit to have thin streams of water (from a perforated piece of garden hose) dripping over the condenser (hot side) coil. I also used water-cooled cooltubes (which I'd never use in any other circumstance). The heat went down the drain with the water. Eventually (18 mos later), the fins on the condenser coil clogged with dried minerals from the tapwater, requiring replacement of the aircon unit- but a lot of buds were grown in that time. Bit water-wasteful, that grow, but there was simply no other way to do it. CO2 came from a tank & metering unit, just as you plan.

I think you're on the right path for a totally sealed grow. The reason why you're not seeing many sealed ops is there's quite a few heroics you have to accomplish to deal with heat and to introduce CO2. Most folks just duct lots of air through the op to carry the heat away and bring in CO2- much cheaper and less complex. However, if you gotta have totally sealed, it can be done. It's just costly and workish.


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## Al B. Fuct (May 30, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Look what I found: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY_P8kW99lU
> 
> Im not sure if I would treat my stock like that though.


I had not seen that version of the Trimpro, thanks for that. 

I'm not sure I would use one either, but DAMN does it look inviting. Bam, job done, albeit with a lot of excess leaf left on the buds. Small buds would also probably get sucked into the cutting blades and be wasted, I'd think. All the bouncing around of the buds in the thing would knock off quite a lot of trichs, I'm sure. However, manual trimming does some of that, too. 

As is frequently said, there's no such thing as a free lunch!


----------



## SOG (May 30, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> However, if you gotta have totally sealed, it can be done. It's just costly and workish.


Thank you Al (a sigh of relief )
i didn't plan on going this route, 
original plan was to deploy two tents in my unfinished attic after i added some floor space
its a new house i moved into, i wasn't familiar much with the attics atmosphere, 
which turned out to be impossible to grow in 
despite of my planning and two 14k portable AC units, 
as soon as the spring came around the temps were building up to 120f/49c in no time, 
i know there was no way to grow under these conditions
i ended up building an insulated room in the middle of the attic (all is documented in my journal)
originally i was gonna vent outside the roof,
i live around a near by air port, 
and to top it off; not such great area (which i learned much later)
we have police choppers fling over all day and night around here
so i decided to stay away from LEO's attentions, by distributing the heat into the already hot attic, 
which shouldn't be anything suspicious since its already a hot attic
then i had the idea to brake the heat before i vent out to the attic and cool it down, with a bigger "icebox" version, which i did
after all that, i was looking at everything i went through to get my op going, which was ways far from my original plan
read about sealed room setups, i liked the ultimate environmental control
i realized i had everything in hand to pull this type setup with my "Super Icebox"


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 30, 2009)

I do think you're on the right track, SOGgy. 

Since you're near an airport, seeing helis flitting about shouldn't alarm you much. You can bet that pilots have a lot more on their mind than FLIR scanning the neighbourhoods around an airport when they're taking off and landing. Takeoff & landing are the most dangerous parts of any flight and pilots will be quite mindful of that.

Knowing that FLIR isn't an x-ray and can't be _legally_ used to randomly scan houses without a warrant should calm you somewhat as well, but dumping warm air into the attic and allowing it to be distributed out the attic vents will go a long way to minimising the appearance of hotspots which could draw the attention of a FLIR operator who is illegally using the thing. 

As I mentioned a cpl pages back, you can hire a FLIR cam and get a look at what LEO will see, if it has you all that worried. Mind you, I still believe that there's a number of other tipoffs (fan noise, scent) to the existence of a grow which are much more likely than IR signature to attract attention, but as long as you address those first, it can't hurt to think about minimising IR output. Diffusion of heat through an intermediate airmass (i.e. attic, crawlspace) and venting the cooled air through a number of points is very effective and will also help damp fan noise.


----------



## WoldofWeedcraft (May 30, 2009)

I grew in a sealed room once, and I'll never do it like that again. Now I'm using a sealed room, but with a window A/C unit disguised from the outside and a hot air exhaust duct for my cool tube. Both the AC and the exhaust blow hot air into the adjacent room, but for the time being that's fine. This setup has been working well, but next I'm going to try to build a slightly bigger room where I won't be able to pull off the window unit in this location since I won't be able to hide it in an adjacent room. I'm thinking about running duct from the house's HVAC and installing a thermostat to the new sub basement room which currently has no ventillation or AC. Is this the ideal way to vent/cool your room? I imagine I'd have intake through the HVAC but where would I exhaust?


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## iloveit (May 30, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> If your drying box has an exhaust fan and an adequately sized intake port (or an intake fan), it'll be fine. Air motion from the fan will stop any mould, even where a few buds may be touching one another. I would not use a timer on the fan. You are counting upon air motion to stop mould. The buds will be susceptible to mould while they are still damp to touch, so run the fan constantly until they're rather stiff to the touch, with just a bit of flex remaining in the stems.
> 
> Naturally, your buds will dry from the outside in. The outsides will soonest feel quite stiff to the touch, but the stems may remain soft & flexible due to the remaining water content. At that point, you can put them in a sealed plastic (tupperware type) container and allow the moisture from the stems to wick into the very dry outer parts of the buds. You could also simply shut off the box's fan and wait a day or so until the moisture wicks into the dry bits. If the buds are too soft for your liking when the moisture has wicked, turn the fan back on for another day or two.
> 
> ...


I see, at what temp & humidity do you dry your buds at?
Al how is that you haven't written a book on "All things Cannabis"? I know it sounds like work but you could speak it & have someone else type it (theres a term for that...but I cant remember). You know it would sell...just a thought (I hope you consider it while your in bed tonight reflecting on the day) 


As for the "Trimpro" see what its priced in my country on this web-store: http://www.grotec.co.uk/search.php?search=trim&search_submit=Go

If only I could find a DIY tutorial on trimmers...


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## Al B. Fuct (May 30, 2009)

WoldofWeedcraft said:


> I'm thinking about running duct from the house's HVAC and installing a thermostat to the new sub basement room which currently has no ventillation or AC. Is this the ideal way to vent/cool your room? I imagine I'd have intake through the HVAC but where would I exhaust?


It doesn't sound like you will have the ability to dump exhaust into an intermediate airspace (perhaps a crawl space in your application), but that would be preferred. It would reduce the load on the HVAC system, even if you are taking cool air from the system to feed into the op. If you can't dump into an intermediate airspace, you would duct exhaust back to the HVAC via the system's air return path.

Sharing the house's HVAC system has one major drawback- distribution of scent throughout the house. If you do this, your exhaust should run through a carbon filter before it returns air to the HVAC system.


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## WoldofWeedcraft (May 30, 2009)

Yea I am most definately using a carbon filter, so that scent issue could be taken care of. Just can't be lazy and wait around to replace the carbon regularly. What kinds of rooms would make an ideal airspace that would be common in your house? The plan is to stealth the entrance to this grow room with a hidden door or something. I guess I could exhaust into the basement with a common vent and make it look like part of the HVAC...just the part where hot air unusually spills out.


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## Al B. Fuct (May 30, 2009)

iloveit said:


> I see, at what temp & humidity do you dry your buds at?


There's a whole thread about my bud dryer(s) here. I'm on v2.0 now but the operating theory is the same as in this diagram describing v1.0:






Bear in mind that v2.0 uses six resistors, not just two. It also has a thermostat to control temp to 29C max. 



As I think of it, I'm probably on v2.5 by now. The above schematic has been revised a bit. Instead of running two sets of three resistors in parallel, there's three sets of two resistors in series. Damned if I can recall the value of the resistors without going out to the op and looking at the dryer, which I'll do later after a lot more coffee. 



> Al how is that you haven't written a book on "All things Cannabis"? I know it sounds like work but you could speak it & have someone else type it (theres a term for that...but I cant remember).


'Dictation' is the term you're looking for. 



> You know it would sell...just a thought (I hope you consider it while your in bed tonight reflecting on the day)


Yes, it _would_ sell- but in the modern world with P2P filesharing, I'd sell _one_ copy and a squillion copies would be floating around the net. 

Also, were I ever to write a book on the topic, I'd not write one about '*All* things cannabis.' I would write a 'cookbook' on how to set up an effective grow op, but I would not explore ALL the different ways it can be done. I'd write _only_ what one needs to do to run an efficient op with minimum set-up cost. I bet I could do it in 10 pages or less. 



> If only I could find a DIY tutorial on trimmers...


Keep looking, someone somewhere will have cooked up a DIY trimmer. I just haven't (yet).


----------



## Al B. Fuct (May 30, 2009)

WoldofWeedcraft said:


> Yea I am most definately using a carbon filter, so that scent issue could be taken care of. Just can't be lazy and wait around to replace the carbon regularly.


Yep, I'm running a carbon filter now. My main complaint about it is that I'm so accustomed to the smell of buds that I can't trust my own nose to tell when the filter has stopped working. 

I probably should cook up a manometer out of some plastic tubing and water with some food dye which might tell me when the filter is blocked with dust, a pretty good indicator that it's time to replace it. 



> What kinds of rooms would make an ideal airspace that would be common in your house?


Garages are great. They have resilient floors in case of spills and often have easy access to power and also to dump waste air into the attic. Just make a grow tent out of pandafilm and hang it from a timber frame which is screwed to the ceiling joists. 

Basements are a good second choice but it's usually harder to get your waste air into an intermediate airspace. 

Spare bedrooms come in third; you can usually punch a duct hole in a closet ceiling to dump air into the attic, but they don't usually have resilient floors and any windows must be stealthily covered- black plastic over them, which is visible from outdoors, is bad rice. Read any 'how to spot a grow house' guide on cop websites- plastic over windows is usually high on their lists.

Most cop-type 'how to spot a grow' websites mainly concern themselves with identifying whole-house grows, where the house is not lived in at all, rather just visited periodically for op maintenance. 

Neighbours see more than you'd like to think. Even if you have addressed all possible stealth issues, neighbours _will_ notice how a house appears to be used. The stealthiest grows are relatively small ones in a house which is occupied in the usual way. If you grow small in spare space in the house you normally occupy, you're much more likely to grow for years without trouble. 



> The plan is to stealth the entrance to this grow room with a hidden door or something. I guess I could exhaust into the basement with a common vent and make it look like part of the HVAC...just the part where hot air unusually spills out.


You could just dump the waste air into the basement airspace, provided there's vents to allow pressure to escape to the atmosphere. Bear in mind that warm air rises and pushing it downward takes a muscular (e.g. centrifugal) blower which is rated for much more flow capacity than you would otherwise need. Keep in mind that you need an effective intake to avoid choking the throughflow.


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## Al B. Fuct (May 30, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Damned if I can recall the value of the resistors without going out to the op and looking at the dryer, which I'll do later after a lot more coffee.


They're 680 ohms. Bear in mind that this value only suits a bud dryer built for 240V. For 120V dryers, it should be 340 ohms or the next lower standard resistor value. The dimmer will allow you to set the current if the std value resistors allow too much current, exceeding the 25W power rating.


----------



## SOG (May 30, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> I do think you're on the right track, SOGgy.


ty Al 
the F.L.I.R is a non issue for me at this point
i thought since i got this far with my setup, 
why not take the full advantage of my equipment, 
i still have the option at this point, running with conventional setup 
do you find any drawback with running a Sealed op vs. the conventional method of venting in and out? 
(attached my original plan)


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## iloveit (May 30, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> There's a whole thread about my bud dryer(s) here. I'm on v2.0 now but the operating theory is the same as in this diagram describing v1.0:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the pics Im already in the process of building a standard dryer but your diagram displays a better version so Ill use that as reference.
Your right about P2P file sharing, I download all my movies/tunes/audio books/ from "Torrent Leech" (another great torrent site but difficult to find invites) I recently d/loaded "See more bud" good watch.

So about that book what title would you give it? Im not going to drag the issue he he he.

If I find a DIY trimmer thread Ill post it here.

One last thing...for now: How do you quote multiple paragraphs & sentences from different members all in one reply post? That "multi" tab at the bottom of each members post doesnt seem to do anything for me, I know Im not using it right. How do you do it?


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## WoldofWeedcraft (May 30, 2009)

Thanks for all the info Al. You truly are the man...er at least the guy that has mastered sticking it to _him_. You must have some kind of Ph.D. I will definately be keeping the op small, and I don't want to do too much obvious damage to the property in case I want to sell the place. So I figure whatever is the most non-invasive ventillation should suffice.


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## Al B. Fuct (May 30, 2009)

SOG said:


> do you find any drawback with running a Sealed op vs. the conventional method of venting in and out?


Yeah- the setup and op costs of a sealed system will be MUCH dearer than a conventionally ventilated op. There's a number of showstopper failure points in the sealed system, too. It's a lot less complex to shift heat by moving air than with refrigeration and a lot cheaper in operation, to boot. A big centrif exhaust blower might pull 200W, a 150mm cooltube blower will suck 30W or so- consider those against 1.4-1.8kW for a small aircon unit. Initial setup of a CO2 system can cost $thousands, with controller, regulator, tank rental, etc., then there's tank refills... which in a sealed system will be mandatory in a you-dang-well-better-not-forget sort of way. I don't use CO2 mainly due to cost and inconvenience. I've run CO2 ops before and the additional growth is nice but I can get by without just fine. 



iloveit said:


> So about that book what title would you give it? Im not going to drag the issue he he he.


Probably 'Get A Harvest Every 2 Weeks.' Gets the point across in a nutshell. 



> How do you quote multiple paragraphs & sentences from different members all in one reply post? That "multi" tab at the bottom of each members post doesnt seem to do anything for me, I know Im not using it right. How do you do it?


I use the REPLY WITH QUOTE button to reply, which gives me the complete text of the msg I want to quote from in the editor. Then I highlight text I want to quote in my reply and hit the QUOTE button




in the post editor, which wraps the txt in QUOTE tags. I delete stuff that doesn't need to appear again to keep it all short & sweet. Then I poke in my commentary between the QUOTEd blocks.



WoldofWeedcraft said:


> Thanks for all the info Al. You truly are the man...er at least the guy that has mastered sticking it to _him_. You must have some kind of Ph.D. I will definately be keeping the op small, and I don't want to do too much obvious damage to the property in case I want to sell the place. So I figure whatever is the most non-invasive ventillation should suffice.


Well, thanks for the compliments and approval, but _The Man_ probably doesn't notice me poking him too much... and that's a very good thing. Attracting no attention is very valuable. 

Small ops are good ops. A single kW will keep you and a few mates well supplied with buds, unless you're really seriously incorrigible drugpigs.  Since I personally am an a really seriously incorrigible drugpig, I use a pair of kWs in cooltubes. Have used that arrangement now for approaching 10 yrs with no grief.


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## iloveit (May 30, 2009)

Probably 'Get A Harvest Every 2 Weeks.' Gets the point across in a nutshell.
I use the REPLY WITH QUOTE button to reply said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/images/editor/quote.gif[/IMG] in the post editor, which wraps the txt in QUOTE tags. I delete stuff that doesn't need to appear again to keep it all short & sweet. Then I poke in my commentary between the QUOTEd blocks.
> .


That title sounds tempting to those who do judge books by their covers, perfect.

Nice of you to help out with all these questions minor & major issues, I like that your willing to pass on your knowledge to us. Thanks again uncle Al


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## Al B. Fuct (May 30, 2009)

No problem, glad to be of help. 

However, my RIU visitation time is just about up. I go back to the salt mines tomorrow morning and I likely won't be back for a spell.


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## orzz (May 30, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Small ops are good ops. A single kW will keep you and a few mates well supplied with buds, unless you're really seriously incorrigible drugpigs.  Since I personally am an a really seriously incorrigible drugpig, I use a pair of kWs in cooltubes. Have used that arrangement now for approaching 10 yrs with no grief.


Thank you Al for all the invaluable information you pass on to this drugpig.

Absolutely fabulous comment to read after catching up on the thread. Had me ROFL! Thanks again.


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## Al B. Fuct (May 31, 2009)

Oh, well, far be it from me to misrepresent my motivations. There's no doubt I'm a really seriously incorrigible drugpig- and proud of it. 

Glad the observation amused you, anyway.


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## GypsyBush (May 31, 2009)

Al... I cannot find H2O2 locally anymore... 

Any suggestions?


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## Fman (May 31, 2009)

Their are a lot of vendors selling h2o2 on the net.


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## deezbud (May 31, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Al... I cannot find H2O2 locally anymore...
> 
> Any suggestions?


http://www.dfwx.com/h2o2.htm

ordered here not knowing what the diff in the pool grade or food grade was. read a little bit and found out the pool grade is just more than 30 days on the shelf. apparently it degrades over time but it is minimal. the food grade i ordered is fine, they stopped selling the super oxy around here so i went with them, its the same stuff.


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## GypsyBush (May 31, 2009)

deezbud said:


> http://www.dfwx.com/h2o2.htm
> 
> ordered here not knowing what the diff in the pool grade or food grade was. read a little bit and found out the pool grade is just more than 30 days on the shelf. apparently it degrades over time but it is minimal. the food grade i ordered is fine, they stopped selling the super oxy around here so i went with them, its the same stuff.


No one wants ship hazmat air freight to alaska... much less deal with international hazmat laws going through Canada...

No H2O2 to be had in AK...


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## Al B. Fuct (May 31, 2009)

ok folks, I'm back to work now, no more pot board playtime for a while. See you when I see you.


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## SOG (Jun 1, 2009)

be safe brother Al. we will be right here when you return 

Thanks for everything

SoG


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## orzz (Jun 1, 2009)

Take care Al. Look forward to your return to RIU's forums and to the information you so generously give out. Thanks again for all your help.


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## Mcgician (Jun 1, 2009)

Can somebody explain the logic of well informed, possibly paranoid, sporatic internet pot-board frequency to me? Thanks.


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## orzz (Jun 1, 2009)

Mcgician said:


> Can somebody explain the logic of well informed, possibly paranoid, sporatic internet pot-board frequency to me? Thanks.


Could you ask the question more directly?
It's coming sideways.
If you mean why do people take breaks? .... Real life takes priority for me.


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## ldnsharkkid (Jun 1, 2009)

Take care Al thanks for the help with everything i waited 7 months to ask you a few q's and pissed you off with a smiley lol dont i feel like a wanker but nevermind stay safe and be lucky.....


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 7, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> No one wants ship hazmat air freight to alaska... much less deal with international hazmat laws going through Canada...
> 
> No H2O2 to be had in AK...


Check with Univar. H2O2 is on their line card.

Another possibility may be Garness Industrial in Anchorage.


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## GypsyBush (Jun 7, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Check with Univar. H2O2 is on their line card.
> 
> Another possibility may be Garness Industrial in Anchorage.


I'll check with Garness tomorrow...

Thanks Al...

The cheapest I was able to price it, shipped here, was over $200 a gallon...


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 8, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I'll check with Garness tomorrow...
> 
> Thanks Al...
> 
> The cheapest I was able to price it, shipped here, was over $200 a gallon...


Yep, that's way wrong. I pay $A125 ($US102.40) per 25L (6.61 US gal) at my hydro shop's dock. 

Chemical suppliers may quote quantities of H2O2 in kg instead of litres. H2O2 is denser than water (SG 1.19 @20C), so 25kg of 50% grade is actually about 21L... but is sold in 25L plastic jugs. You'll get your point across if you ask for 25L. 

Chem supply houses don't like to sell single 25L jug quantities. One good one I know of wanted around $400 for a single 25L jug, but the price falls fast with qty. $275/25L for 2, $125/25L for 4, down to as low as about $25/25L in 20 jug palletloads. I persuaded my local hydro shop to buy in a pallet and I agreed to pay $125 per. I buy 4 maybe 5 a year. Works for both of us. My supplier makes $100 a pop and I don't have to store a palletload. 

Lemme know how you go.


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## GypsyBush (Jun 8, 2009)

I will, thanks!!!


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## brontobrandon1 (Jun 8, 2009)

http://www.thegrowstore.com/detail.asp?itemnumber=1849

This is what is available at my hydro store looks legit and cheap.


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 8, 2009)

brontobrandon1 said:


> http://www.thegrowstore.com/detail.asp?itemnumber=1849
> This is what is available at my hydro store looks legit and cheap.


yes, that's the right stuff, but Gyps is having trouble getting the goo up in AK. Unfortunately a shop in CO isn't too helpful as shippers don't want to carry hazmat or want to charge a leg & your first born if they do.


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## GypsyBush (Jun 8, 2009)

Al... you are a GOD!!!!

or at least a really smart fellow...

You just saved me a HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY!!!!!

Oh and by the way..

I have adjusted my op to a daily harvest... about a jarful a day going to racks...

Cheers Bro!

And Thanks!!!!


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## GypsyBush (Jun 12, 2009)

Here's some shots from this morning... 


Some trim turned Kief...










Ah... now we get a peek at the drying rack... also as of this morning...















What's your taste?

INDICA






or SATIVA...


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## tilemaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Damn Gypsy daily harvest..thats fucking spectacular to have it down to that


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## GypsyBush (Jun 12, 2009)

I like *not* having TONS of work all at once...

I can trim 3 or 4 lollipops in no time at all... doesn't even phase me... I can do it while I eat dessert...

Transplanting 3 or 4 clones is also a no brainer...

Washing hydroton from 3 or 4 pots is a breeze, and gets done in just a few minutes...

It usually takes me longer to choose which girls are being chopped than to do any other single step of the process...


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## curious.george (Jun 13, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> When I first showed up here a few years back, muddleheaded fans of molasses, CFLs for everything, LEDs and organic nutes were leading earnest new growers down the rosy garden path.


I wasted so much money on this garbage, I wish I had read your posts sooner.

Thanks for all your posts, I don't follow your system 100% as I use Mycorrhizal fungi and coco coir now and very little H2O2, but... Somehow I had really lousy grows until read all your posts (FAQt,ect...) and used your system for a few successful grows. Once I had the baseline of a fully functional grow op based on your model I was able to make a few changes and still get great results. I can not thank you enough for what you have taught me. I will be following this thread for more good information.


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## GypsyBush (Jun 13, 2009)

Hey Al...

I know that the chances of you having time to visit people's thread's is minimal...

So I hope you don't mind a quick hijack for an update...

It's all possible because you... Thanks!!!



GypsyBush said:


> I'll give you guys two choices for music...
> 
> Both worth not only listening to, but also watching.. after the pictures, of course...
> 
> ...


----------



## MediMary (Jun 14, 2009)

I love you gypsy .. damn.. awesome


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## orzz (Jun 14, 2009)

Thanks GB for the music vids.
You really have a totally sweet set up going on.
I am looking forward to seeing Clapton and Winwood in 2 weeks.


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## GypsyBush (Jun 14, 2009)

Thanks for the kind words guys...

You are always welcome at my journal too... lots and lots of pics...

Anyways... 

Cheers..


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## (Butters) (Jun 14, 2009)

In the ebb & flow trays, do the roots get tangled at all?


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## GypsyBush (Jun 14, 2009)

(Butters) said:


> In the ebb & flow trays, do the roots get tangled at all?


Not if you use pots, as I do...

I can move any plant at any time for any reason without having to even think about the roots in the pot...

Now, sometimes, a root strand or two will leave the pot and grow a bit... usually they just get "air pruned" 

Hope this helped...

Cheers...


----------



## orzz (Jun 14, 2009)

(Butters) said:


> In the ebb & flow trays, do the roots get tangled at all?


Mine have because I put down a coco mat. Next time I will cut the mat into pieces just a little bigger than the RW cubes I use.


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 15, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Al... you are a GOD!!!!
> 
> or at least a really smart fellow...


 dood, all I did was apply a liberal dose of google-fu. 



> You just saved me a HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY!!!!!


 farm out, mang. 

Do share. What were you able to work out?

Buds look great. 



curious.george said:


> I wasted so much money on this garbage, I wish I had read your posts sooner.


 good to hear it. 



> Thanks for all your posts, I don't follow your system 100% as I use Mycorrhizal fungi and coco coir now and very little H2O2,


 You're wasting a bit more dough if you're using a biological pathogen control in conjunction with H2O2. H2O2 will kill the biocontrol fungi, even in very small amounts. I'm not a fan of coir for a couple of reasons; it's an organic material that H2O2 can also break down- and it's not sterile out of the package, as are things like rockwool, Fytocell, etc. 

Give those a think. 



GypsyBush said:


> Hey Al...
> 
> I know that the chances of you having time to visit people's thread's is minimal...
> 
> ...


 You're most welcome. 

I do see some leaves with necrotic tissue in between the leaf veins. Often caused by a wandering pH. Make sure that's correct (5.8 ).



(Butters) said:


> In the ebb & flow trays, do the roots get tangled at all?


not if you...



GypsyBush said:


> Not if you use pots, as I do...
> 
> I can move any plant at any time for any reason without having to even think about the roots in the pot...
> 
> Now, sometimes, a root strand or two will leave the pot and grow a bit... usually they just get "air pruned"


yep. Use pots of media in flood trays, don't fill a flood tray full of media. Portability of the plants within the op allows you to put poorer performers in better light and even out growth across each batch. Also allows you to harvest one at a time without disturbing the rootmasses of other plants.



orzz said:


> Mine have because I put down a coco mat. Next time I will cut the mat into pieces just a little bigger than the RW cubes I use.


You still need a barrier of some sort, even if you cut the mat into sections. Pots are the way to go.


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 15, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> dood, all I did was apply a liberal dose of google-fu.


Are you familiar with www.lmgtfy.com ?

I really deserved one of thise right now... 



> Do share. What were you able to work out?


They sell 15 gallon/56.8L of 50% for US$120... NOT BAD AT ALL!!!!

Now I just have to figure out how to get it past the last highway and across the lost hills...

I live 400 miles from the nearest road that goes anywhere... Bush Alaska is kinda like the Bush down there... but much colder...

That's where it get's expensive... HAZMAT on planes...

Oh well... at least I am saving a lot on the H2O2...




> Buds look great.


They look all right... I consider them second grade still...

I have had one run that I would like to reproduce consistently...

It was one of my bagseed Indicas, I had 48 lollies turn out an average of 20g... under a 600 HPS... I think I want to do that again...

But I fuck up too much...lol... 

You can tell by your next comment....



> I do see some leaves with necrotic tissue in between the leaf veins. Often caused by a wandering pH. Make sure that's correct (5.8 ).


I am having a HELL of a time with pH...

I strayed into the organic world when I could not get the H2O2 and I lost control of everything...

My pH DROPS fast and often....

For 4 weeks I had to adjust it from 5.1/5.2 back to 6.3 DAILY... sometimes more...

I am now using non organic nutes again, but still have no H2O2 in there...

Is there anything "organic" that could cause this? extreme drops in pH...

....

Thanks for saying something... NO ONE else tells me shit... 

...

Now.. have you ever heard of a strain called Cinderella 99?

I got some without even knowing anything about it... I was just told she finishes fast... but I am a dummy...

What do you know???

Cheers Al... and thanks a million, as always you are the one to help me...



Edit:

Oh! could you please point out a pic that shows the necrotic tissue you speak of.. I'm not sure what to look for...


----------



## (Butters) (Jun 15, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> yep. Use pots of media in flood...


So in using the pots, the roots grow in the pot and stay there (minus a few strays out of fill holes)? What kind of root mass do you see from these? Isn't this too restrictive to root growth (keeping them in small pots only to grow...sorry...i'm a dwc'r so i'm used to massive root growth)? Is there a small/large layer of hydroton between the bottom of the pot and the rockwool cube to allow for root growth?


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 15, 2009)

(Butters) said:


> So in using the pots, the roots grow in the pot and stay there (minus a few strays out of fill holes)? What kind of root mass do you see from these? Isn't this too restrictive to root growth (keeping them in small pots only to grow...sorry...i'm a dwc'r so i'm used to massive root growth)? Is there a small/large layer of hydroton between the bottom of the pot and the rockwool cube to allow for root growth?


I'm getting at least 1g/w on average... and I use very small pots, smaller than Al's... so yeah, it works..

 ​


----------



## (Butters) (Jun 15, 2009)

Crap. Totally forgot about that picture! My apologies for not doing appropriate research 1st. Thank you gypsy.


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 15, 2009)

No worries Bro!

I am glad Al created those images... I couldn't tell you how many times I have visited his gallery to copy the images onto other threads... 

A picture is worth a thousand words....


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Jun 17, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Are you familiar with www.lmgtfy.com ?
> 
> I really deserved one of thise right now...


 qute, that. I try not to be too dicky about shit like that. To be honest, it took a bit of sniffing around to find chem suppliers and then a bit more to find one which published a line card with H2O2 on it. 



> They sell 15 gallon/56.8L of 50% for US$120... NOT BAD AT ALL!!!!


 you BAHstid. You're getting it cheaper than me. 



> Now I just have to figure out how to get it past the last highway and across the lost hills...


 4WD, dood. 


> I live 400 miles from the nearest road that goes anywhere... Bush Alaska is kinda like the Bush down there... but much colder...


 Bush AK would be mucho more difficult. I _do_ live out bush and you *DO* need 4wd with at least 8" of ground clearance to get to my place (two streams to ford) but you never stand a chance of freezing ya nads off if ya get stuck.


> That's where it get's expensive... HAZMAT on planes...


 You bet it would. Don't envy ya one bit. 



> Oh well... at least I am saving a lot on the H2O2...


 Yeah, if the transport costs would'nt suck me dry, I'd be having you send me some at your 'local' prices. 



> I am having a HELL of a time with pH...
> 
> I strayed into the organic world when I could not get the H2O2 and I lost control of everything...
> 
> My pH DROPS fast and often....


 Yep, that's the usual story of 'organic' growers, but I understand why ya done wot ya done. 



> For 4 weeks I had to adjust it from 5.1/5.2 back to 6.3 DAILY... sometimes more...


 Most likely that there's some big pathogen load in the system as organic/competing microbe pathogen control doesn't usually work so well. 

However, what I usually see in an infected system is the pH jumping _up_, not dropping. 



> I am now using non organic nutes again, but still have no H2O2 in there...


 With luck, you'll get some H2O2 in there soon and things will level out. You may have trouble with the batch you ran organically, but once that's been harvested, subsequent batches should do better. 



> Is there anything "organic" that could cause this? extreme drops in pH...


There's so many different organic sauces that I can't keep track of what they are and what effects they'll have. However, like I said, the pH usually goes up, not down. 



> Now.. have you ever heard of a strain called Cinderella 99?


 Yeah, but it's been years since I've seen any. Don't recall what the characters of C99 were. 



> Oh! could you please point out a pic that shows the necrotic tissue you speak of.. I'm not sure what to look for...


'necrotic' simply means 'dead.' I'm talking about the pix with the dead spots on the leaves, between the leaf veins, while the leaf margins remain green. 



(Butters) said:


> So in using the pots, the roots grow in the pot and stay there (minus a few strays out of fill holes)?


Any roots that poke out of the drain holes will be pruned by exposure to air. 



> What kind of root mass do you see from these?


Enough for the plant! 



> Isn't this too restrictive to root growth (keeping them in small pots only to grow...sorry...i'm a dwc'r so i'm used to massive root growth)?


In SoG systems, where the plants are flowered immediately after setting root (zero veg time between clones setting root and flowering them), the rootmasses don't get very large because the plants don't get very large. All quite deliberate. SoG produces a plant of rather short stature, about 30-40" at finishing. This is done to tailor the plant to the foliar penetration capability of indoor lighting. Tall plants are not the indoor grower's friend!



> Is there a small/large layer of hydroton between the bottom of the pot and the rockwool cube to allow for root growth?


Not in my systems, because I don't use clay pellets at all. I use cheap black plastic 175mm x 175mm pots (as you'd otherwise use for potting soil) with about 25mm of rockwool floc tightly packed in the bottoms of the pots, with the remainder of the pot filled wtih Fytocell. Fytocell is a crumbled foam material. The small bits will escape via the drain holes if there's no RW floc packed in the pot bottoms. 

In flood systems using pots of pellets, the dwg is accurate. The idea of the 1/2" gap between the cube bottom and the flood level is to prevent saturating the RW cube. It's easy to kill new plants, recently introduced to a flood/pellet system if the RW cube is touched by the flood level. Roots in pellets can be flooded several times per lights-on. Roots in a medium which retains more water than pellets (i.e. rw floc, Fytocell) can generally only tolerate being flooded 1x/day, 2x for large, advanced plants. In a SoG system,plants never get all that big, so 1x/day is sufficient in the majority of cases.


----------



## MediMary (Jun 17, 2009)

nice to have u stop by al.. hey GB how do I post videos so they show up like urs.. usually i get something like http://www.youtube.com/jajdfajjajeifjaj


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 17, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> qute, that. I try not to be too dicky about shit like that.


I hear you... but it is funny at the right time...



> To be honest, it took a bit of sniffing around to find chem suppliers and then a bit more to find one which published a line card with H2O2 on it.


I appreciate the fact that you did, cause I looked around and called around... but only in a "horticultural" context...

Thanks for taking the search a few steps further...




> you BAHstid. You're getting it cheaper than me.


I'm not complaining...

And it looks like they're not about to stop selling it either...



> 4WD, dood.


uhh... think Dog Sled.... think being on the trail for weeks...

Of course there's airplanes, but I know a few people that have done the trip by snowmachine.... but it's still a *very dangerous* week long trip through some of the most remote regions of Alaska...



> Bush AK would be mucho more difficult


Much of it is like the Sahara, but frozen... with snow drifts moving around much like dunes... in the winter time...

And in the Summer, it all turns to mush... a swamp... one giant tea bag... the Tundra...

It's hard to get around if it's not winter time... thank goodness we have plenty of it...



> I _do_ live out bush and you *DO* need 4wd with at least 8" of ground clearance to get to my place (two streams to ford) but you never stand a chance of freezing ya nads off if ya get stuck.


I would LOVE to come visit... for more than one reason...

One day I'll make it Down Under...

And you are right... Bush Alaska is a risky place, freeze and die or die and freeze... I forget which..

But, with experience and the right gear, Winter turns Alaska into a huge playground...

You can go anywhere... over land and even water...

I have fished for Halibut 35 miles off shore, in the Bearing Sea...

Not by boat... by snowmobile... that's a long ways from land...

I love it!!!! I love it!!!! I love it!!!!!



> Yeah, if the transport costs would'nt suck me dry, I'd be having you send me some at your 'local' prices.


Shipping sucks... it is sooo expensive... especially on the more remote villages... most of the time, the shipping greatly surpasses the cost of the actual item....

$2 for 1 orange?
$8 for a jug of milk?
$6 for 12 eggs?
$12 for a gallon of gas?
$6 per Kw of energy?
$600 to 650 for a *light* oz?
$50 for a *light* gram? light meaning it does not weigh what it is supposed to...

may not sound too bad for you out there... but you show these numbers to someone Outside (lower 48 states) and they would freak!



> Yep, that's the usual story of 'organic' growers, but I understand why ya done wot ya done.


I done fuck up is what I done...



> Most likely that there's some big pathogen load in the system as organic/competing microbe pathogen control doesn't usually work so well.


It's weird... for 3 days the 70 gal res was stable.. then I go in there and it went from 5.9 to 5.0 in less than 12 hours... on a less than week old batch of nutes...



> However, what I usually see in an infected system is the pH jumping _up_, not dropping.


 I wonder if I have an over population of the "good bacteria"...??

My plants are, well, you saw them... do they look diseased? roots are never slimy, but I must say that some are deff. more white than others...

I mean, I get a few runts here and there, but I think they look ok, yeah?!



> With luck, you'll get some H2O2 in there soon and things will level out. You may have trouble with the batch you ran organically, but once that's been harvested, subsequent batches should do better.


I am pretty confident in the H2O2...

I just hate hurting my girls... I have too many to give them names and shit, but I still care and want them to be healthy.. 



> There's so many different organic sauces that I can't keep track of what they are and what effects they'll have. However, like I said, the pH usually goes up, not down.


I have heard that more than once... but mine drops like lead on a pool...

I have quit using pH up... now I just drain 1/4 res and fill with fresh water (7.1pH)....

it sucks but I cannot be buying gallons of pH up... it's ridiculous...




> Yeah, but it's been years since I've seen any. Don't recall what the characters of C99 were.


I keep hearing how fast she is supposed to finish... and the taste and blah blah blah...

We'll see when she is done....



> 'necrotic' simply means 'dead.' I'm talking about the pix with the dead spots on the leaves, between the leaf veins, while the leaf margins remain green.


I see... 

Hopefully the pH stabilizing after the H2O2 will cure this issue...

Thanks a BUNCH Al...


----------



## SOG (Jun 17, 2009)

MediMary said:


> hey GB how do I post videos so they show up like urs..




you need to post only the clip portion of the link (after the equals sign (=))
then place in you tube brackets like this 

for example 

```
your link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[COLOR=Blue]8JryQXilMj4[/COLOR]

code you will need to post
[youtube][COLOR=Blue]8JryQXilMj4[/COLOR][/youtube ]
```
here is what will show

[youtube]8JryQXilMj4[/youtube]


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 17, 2009)

Holy shit SOG... that was FAST...

What's up bro!?!


----------



## SOG (Jun 17, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> What's up bro!?!


whats up is, its clones time here


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## GypsyBush (Jun 17, 2009)

SOG said:


> whats up is, its clones time here


Really?!?!?!

Is it official?

I'm heading over now.. I expect to see sumpthin'


----------



## SOG (Jun 18, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Really?!?!?!
> 
> Is it official?
> 
> I'm heading over now.. I expect to see sumpthin'


its almost official, 
haven't taken any pics yet, working round the clock


----------



## str82dacranium (Jun 19, 2009)

Al, I've been soaking in tons of knowledge that you were kind enough to share w/ us in your threads. Very informative my man, and thanks. Are you by chance MacGyver reincarnated?


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 27, 2009)

Al, this trich's for you... I think there's a bud in there somewhere..


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Jun 27, 2009)

str82dacranium said:


> Al, I've been soaking in tons of knowledge that you were kind enough to share w/ us in your threads. Very informative my man, and thanks.


no wucking furries. 



str82dacranium said:


> Are you by chance MacGyver reincarnated?


oh shit, is MacGuyver DEAD?!  Now, _that_ would upset me, completely unlike the loathing and contempt I have for recently departed paedophiles...

Seriously, there were inventive people around long before the popularity of the MacGuyver show (and later, Mythbusters) revealed that the world actually has a secret love of all the nerds they bullied mercilessly back in school. 

But thanks for the compliment.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Jun 27, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Al, this trich's for you... I think there's a bud in there somewhere..


w00t. 

Noice woik.


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## MediMary (Jun 27, 2009)

hey all b, how are you doing.. have a good work week buddy


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 27, 2009)

Doing OK, thanks.  You?

Funny thing is, since my 'job' involves me sitting right here as I am now (doing some website admin krap), it's not much different than spending the week screwing around on RIU.


----------



## MediMary (Jun 27, 2009)

haha.. thats good = )
my week was pretty darn good all, I live in the southwest though.. and its fucking HOT..
just trying to beat the heat


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 27, 2009)

McGaiver is not dead!!!

He went through the Stargate with Daniel Jackson... everyone knows THAT!!!

And no comments to you know what Al... just one big beary laugh... HA!


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Jun 28, 2009)

MediMary said:


> its fucking HOT..
> just trying to beat the heat


I freaking hate hot. You can always get warm in a cold place but absent spending a motza on aircon, getting cool in a hot place is much more difficult. Sounds a bit stereotypical, but I actually DO live in a cave on the side of a mountain. Free aircon up here at 3000ft.  

Last place I lived, down at sea level, we were getting a week's worth of >42C (109.4F) days every summer- got a couple 45C (113.1) days, too. Never gets above 37C (98.6) here and never for more than 3 days a year. 



GypsyBush said:


> McGaiver is not dead!!!


Let's hope not!



> He went through the Stargate with Daniel Jackson... everyone knows THAT!!!


oh yeah, _everyone... 
_


> And no comments to you know what Al... just one big beary laugh... HA!


you-know-what? You mean that poor fella who died of food poisoning? Gotta check the use-by dates on your dates. 7 year old meat and 12 year old buns will do you in every single time.


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 28, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> I freaking hate hot. You can always get warm in a cold place but absent spending a motza on aircon, getting cool in a hot place is much more difficult. Sounds a bit stereotypical, but I actually DO live in a cave on the side of a mountain. Free aircon up here at 3000ft.
> 
> Last place I lived, down at sea level, we were getting a week's worth of >42C (109.4F) days every summer- got a couple 45C (113.1) days, too. Never gets above 37C (98.6) here and never for more than 3 days a year.


User SOG is still fiddling with his radiator thingy...

But I believe he is very happy with the results of power consumed vs cooling effect...

And he s still tweaking it...

Al would you agree that it is more efficient to cool water than air?

or do you think we are trading 6 for 1/2 dozen here...?


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Jun 28, 2009)

The most efficient way to do any job is with the fewest steps of energy transfer. If I need to cool air, I'll use a refrigeration system built to shift heat from air into the refrigerant directly. Chilling water with a refrigeration unit to then cycle through a radiator to then pick up heat from air won't be as effective or efficient. The entropy monster gets you in thermodynamic systems when you add steps.


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 28, 2009)

I hear you...

I'm so glad I live in a frozen wasteland...

I have zero hot days...

And plenty of COLD air to cool whatever I want...lol.......


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Jun 28, 2009)

You know, you certainly CAN have too much of a good thing. 

You should put that cold air to good use. If you chained Sarah Palin to something heavy for a few days, maybe the hypothermia would anaethetise her before the bears moved in for a snack.


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 28, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> You should put that cold air to good use.


A zip a day ok with you???



> If you chained Sarah Palin to something heavy for a few days, maybe the hypothermia would anaethetise her before the bears moved in for a snack.


Bears are very picky about what they eat...

You need a pack of wolves...


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 28, 2009)

zip-a-day-doo-dah! 

yeah, won't someone think of the bears? 

Wolves must not care about food with a high white trash content.


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## GypsyBush (Jun 28, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> zip-a-day-doo-dah!


Not bad for a 6 month newb with a bad leg eh?!?!










[quote[Wolves must not care about food with a high white trash content.[/quote]

I see them at the dump all the time...


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 28, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Not bad for a 6 month newb with a bad leg eh?!?!


Yeah, imagine what you could do with a GOOD leg. 



> > Wolves must not care about food with a high white trash content.
> 
> 
> I see them at the dump all the time...


Wolves or white trash? Probably a little of both.


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 28, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Yeah, imagine what you could do with a GOOD leg.


I'd like to get my high mark consistently...

I pulled off 48x 20g under a 600w... once...





> Wolves or white trash? Probably a little of both.


The Eskimos are not white...


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Jul 4, 2009)

Go easy on the eskimos. Everywhere I've seen an indigenous population, I've also seen abuse and abandonment of them by the 'conquering' nation. Add unemployment and alcohol to poverty and you get some people with problems, but those have been thrust upon them. 

Incidentally, it appears as though AK has suddenly lost a lot of its white trashiness. Awriiiiight.


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 4, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Go easy on the eskimos.


I can give them shit... I live with them...

But I do have the utmost respect for their culture and traditions...

I live on their land... and according to their laws... literally...



> Everywhere I've seen an indigenous population, I've also seen abuse and abandonment of them by the 'conquering' nation. Add unemployment and alcohol to poverty and you get some people with problems, but those have been thrust upon them.


Very true... 

Where I live (an Eskimo community of less than 100 people, I'm one of *3* white people here) and quite a few of the surrounding villages, the tribal councils have outlawed alcohol... but tolerate MJ... 



> Incidentally, it appears as though AK has suddenly lost a lot of its white trashiness. Awriiiiight.


I was kinda surprised...

But I will not be, if this is just the "tip of the iceberg"...

Now... here's the op shots of the week for you...



Brought to you in part by..

yourself...!!!






































































































 ​ 
​


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## Al B. Fuct (Jul 4, 2009)

Looking good. I'm a little concerned about the leaf purpling, could be hitting the nutes too hard in late flowering. Might drop to 700-800 in wks 6-8.


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## orzz (Jul 4, 2009)

Hey GB, are you adopted?


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 4, 2009)

I see...

I have one big res for all trays... 1400 ppm...

I also have 6 strains feeding on the same res...

My op is far from perfect..

Also, that particular tray sits in the "cool" corner of the room... so it sees lower temps than the rest of the op...

Alaska is very challenging...

Right now, it's 65F outside... but with the Sun beating on the house 24hrs a day.. (the "cool corner" gets shade from a hill...) my place is like a convection oven... it's 85F in the living room with the windows open...

The walls are HOT to the touch... from the radiant heat alone...

Then comes winter... it already snowed on the hills... it's coming... and I have to deal with a whole other ball of wax...

But I gotta tell you... 40 below air does wonders for cooling an op.... hahahaha......


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 4, 2009)

orzz said:


> Hey GB, are you adopted?


I'm a gypsy... by blood and spirit I am a Son of Earth, Fire, Water and Air... 

but I have been very culturally adaptive to the places where I have roamed...

and Alaska does feel like home... and the "Real People" (the Yup'ik, Cup'ik, Inupiaq' and Innuit Eskimos) are like my family... I have been amongst them for about ten years now...

I eat seal meat at their table, I drink Caribou blood with them on a hunt... and I honor their ancestors as they do... by cherishing the children of the village...

So I guess you could say I am adopted...


----------



## That 5hit (Jul 4, 2009)

thats deep


----------



## orzz (Jul 4, 2009)

The reason I asked was your avatar is the symbol of Bastard Nation a worldwide group of adoptee's, and I am a member.

Liked your answer though.


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 4, 2009)

orzz said:


> The reason I asked was your avatar is the symbol of Bastard Nation a worldwide group of adoptee's, and I am a member.
> 
> Liked your answer though.


I see...

I am not an official member...but I have "adopted" that symbol because *I am* a bastard son... literally..


----------



## saurier (Jul 4, 2009)

Al, it's no understatement when I say that I've read every single page of your FAQ, and both of your vastly informative SOG threads (thanks to all other members that contributed). I'm a member of many other forums, and it irks me when the same question gets posted multiple times. Reading is fundamental.

I'm planning to start a SOG grow myself in a couple months, and I've been doing as much research as I can, and trust me, I will NOT be using molasses.

Thanks, and hopefully sometime around late November I'll be a good example of research and planning, rather than learning only from mistakes (which I'm sure will be inevitable, but hopefully nothing I can't handle).


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Jul 4, 2009)

saur, thanks for the thanks. .  

If you've read the cloning & '2 weeks' threads, you'll do fine.


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 4, 2009)

Juicy...


----------



## iloveit (Jul 5, 2009)

Ooooooo wee!

What strain is that & what is your secret method?


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 5, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Ooooooo wee!


Thanks! 



> What strain is that


BC Juicy Fruit... an old hippie found a seed in a known bag... and gave it to me...



> & what is your secret method?


No secret... it's easy really... I just do what Al B. Fuct says on his threads... and I didn't listen to anyone else... I'm pretty fucking happy of you ask me... 













One change I made from his op is the Fuct approved hydroton method...














Thanks Al B Fuct!!! 



​ 



​ 
​ ​


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 5, 2009)

Here she is again...


----------



## brontobrandon1 (Jul 5, 2009)

Im loving the colors that bud has, very appealing bro.. im impressed


----------



## iloveit (Jul 5, 2009)

Indeed Al B most certainly does rock. Ive come to notice some of the best strains are those that are given, I just purchased Blue moonshine, Blue cheese & CHIESEL thinking they would be best for me then last week "ripz" (an old friend of Heath Robinson & a member from the potpimp community) sent me "Cinderella99" a strain I gave up searching for & out of the blue bam the C99 grow is gonna be a lot of fun Muwahahahaha.


----------



## iloveit (Jul 5, 2009)

I cant stop gazing at the moist buds I just wanna stroke it he he he.


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 5, 2009)

iloveit said:


> I cant stop gazing at the moist buds I just wanna stroke it he he he.


Here... calm down... go get your fix...

https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/210380-pictures-bc-seed-king-juicy.html#post2700181https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/210380-pictures-bc-sedd-king-juicy.html#post2700181


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 5, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Indeed Al B most certainly does rock. Ive come to notice some of the best strains are those that are given, I just purchased Blue moonshine, Blue cheese & CHIESEL thinking they would be best for me then last week "ripz" (an old friend of Heath Robinson & a member from the potpimp community) sent me "Cinderella99" a strain I gave up searching for & out of the blue bam the C99 grow is gonna be a lot of fun Muwahahahaha.


CINDY!!!!

You're gonna love her...

Here's a few shots at 5 weeks... I just took them for you...

Keep her close bro!  she'll love you long time... in a vey short time flowering time...


----------



## iloveit (Jul 5, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> CINDY!!!!
> 
> You're gonna love her...



So Ive heard these are the details from ripz himself:

"Brothers grimm c99 (pineapple pheno) f1 x brothers grimm c99 (tropical pheno) male f1
flowering time : 7wks
yield : med - high (cash croppers dream with short flowering time and dense nugs)
odour - tropical fruit mix overpowered with pineapple
flavor - tinned pineapple dank
high - up up and away with very psychoactive effects borderline hallucinogenic
potency rating 9/10

after a long shortage im proud to announce the return of the holy grail. if you havent grown it you should if you have grown it then you already know."

Thanks for the pics Im considering lollipoping them but in soil just so I can utilise all the space in my cab.


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 5, 2009)

From the tasters I have had and just watching her flower... I would say that is a pretty accurate description...

Especially the "high - up up and away with very psychoactive effects borderline hallucinogenic potency rating 9/10" part...

And I only had a quick dry taster....

I just cannot wait to have her after a 4 week cure...

I smoke a lot... I got serious issues with pain... 

Instead of taking pain killers, I get stoned so my mind wanders away from the pain...

I must say that even after being up and smoking ALL DAY LONG.. when I took 2 little bong hits of a premmie little quick dry bud... 

She hit me like a semi truck... upity and heady... making my heart race and and my mind melt...

Let me ask you this...

Is Ripz a member here?

I would love an opportunity at a word with him...

Cheers Bro!


----------



## iloveit (Jul 5, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> From the tasters I have had and just watching her flower... I would say that is a pretty accurate description...
> 
> Especially the "high - up up and away with very psychoactive effects borderline hallucinogenic potency rating 9/10" part...
> 
> ...


Man Im excited to grow this one.

Sorry to here about the pains.

Im guessing this is him https://www.rollitup.org/members/ripz-6282.html
As he has the potpimp in his signature.you can chat to him & the rest of the grew including "Dr Herbal" at http://www.potpimp.com/forum/


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 5, 2009)

Cheers..


----------



## saurier (Jul 6, 2009)

yeah i've heard a lot about C99, i'm planning on SOGing C99 x Apollo 11, and Ice for my first time grow.

Q: How many plants would a 400w HPS support for flowering?


----------



## SpruceZeus (Jul 6, 2009)

Dear uncle al. You sir, are an inspiration. If it weren't for you, I'd still be knee deep in mud instead of marijuana.





Thanks for all the info.


----------



## GreenGold (Jul 11, 2009)

Holy SHIT! Its AL B. I thought you were gone for good, good to see you are still with us. I dont think I have ever read one of your threads and I still know your rep. Your considered a guru to what we do.


----------



## saurier (Jul 12, 2009)

i just sent in my order for some C99 from Ripz

i'm pumped


----------



## Hamburgular (Jul 14, 2009)

saurier said:


> i just sent in my order for some C99 from Ripz
> 
> i'm pumped


I have some on the way too........ 

C99 Pineapple Pheno...... the holy grail. I hope not one seed is crushed during shipping, but I dont think so. Ripz is a stand up guy in this shady seed business.


----------



## iloveit (Jul 18, 2009)

Hamburgular said:


> I have some on the way too........
> 
> C99 Pineapple Pheno...... the holy grail. I hope not one seed is crushed during shipping, but I dont think so. Ripz is a stand up guy in this shady seed business.


Your right about that ripz is trustworthy. Be sure to scuff the seeds they are a little hard for the taproot to break out of.


----------



## QuentinQuark (Jul 18, 2009)

Yo Al! If you're still around, did you ever sort out the whole PK 13/14 thing with Canna? I'm pretty sure where you left off, before you left, was talking to their tech support about exactly when and how to use it cause you couldn't get it right?


----------



## doogleef (Jul 18, 2009)

He stopped using it.


----------



## brucetree (Jul 18, 2009)

saurier said:


> i just sent in my order for some C99 from Ripz
> 
> i'm pumped


where you order and how much it cost?


----------



## OnlineSimRacer (Jul 19, 2009)

HomeGrownHairy said:


> Props Al! - I read your thread front to back. Lots of great info and suggestions.


 Npw thats fucted up...


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 19, 2009)

HomeGrownHairy said:


> Props Al! - I read your thread front to back. Lots of great info and suggestions.





OnlineSimRacer said:


> Npw thats fucted up...




More than great info and suggestions... if you take the system as a whole...

I followed it like a recipe... IGNORED EVERY ONE ELSE... literally...

and I must say that I got the same results as Al...

More than suggestions, it's an all inclusive package deal with a guarantee backed by DOZENS, if not more, of Fuctheads like myself across the interweb...

I said it once and I am still proud to say...
*
"It's not the only way to grow... but when I ignored all other ways... and the lights came on.... I found myself in a Sea of Green..."* by GypsyBush, inspired by Al B. Fuct...











 ​ 
​ ​


----------



## brontobrandon1 (Jul 19, 2009)

now that is a hell of a quote gypsy. I cant wait to get my self in to a house in a Sea of green.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Jul 19, 2009)

SpruceZeus said:


> Dear uncle al. You sir, are an inspiration. If it weren't for you, I'd still be knee deep in mud instead of marijuana.
> 
> Thanks for all the info.


 no wuckin' furries. 



GreenGold said:


> Holy SHIT! Its AL B. I thought you were gone for good, good to see you are still with us. I dont think I have ever read one of your threads and I still know your rep. Your considered a guru to what we do.


 well, thanks, but you'd thank me more if you got stuck into the threads. I wrote about growing dope because I was so frustrated seeing noobs struggle when they just didn't have to. Get A Harvest Every Two Weeks was all about never running out of dope while not actually having to work your ass off to grow it. The 4 tray SoG system breaks up the harvesting job (which I should be doing now instead of playing on the 'net) and improves avg bud size & density.



QuentinQuark said:


> Yo Al! If you're still around, did you ever sort out the whole PK 13/14 thing with Canna? I'm pretty sure where you left off, before you left, was talking to their tech support about exactly when and how to use it cause you couldn't get it right?


Yeah, I regularly cooked plants with PK1314. I've since reduced the usual nute strength in all flowering tanks from 1400 to 1000ppm. When I use PK, it's in tank 3 (wks4-6), which I mix for 750-800ppm and use PK @ 0.5ml/L for 1 week only. The problem which Canna couldn't sort out was my 1400ppm usual tank mix. Doesn't need to be quite that high in the other tanks and the tank running PK has to be a good bit lower than that. I'm not entirely sure PK does much good. I'm alternating batches with and without it at the moment. When I run out this 5L jug, I probably won't replace it.



GypsyBush said:


> More than great info and suggestions... if you take the system as a whole...
> 
> I followed it like a recipe... IGNORED EVERY ONE ELSE... literally...
> 
> and I must say that I got the same results as Al...


Pleased to hear it.  

If I had to offer general suggestions to a noob, these would be the most significant:

* Build your room so it presents consistently correct conditions; 24-26C @ 30-50%RH with frequent ventilation. 

* All locations for grow rooms are different but proper ventilation and thus keeping temps down is the hardest thing to accomplish in the spaces folx usually have available to use as grow ops. Cooltubes are an amazing helpmeet toward that end. There's some light intensity loss through the tube glass but you lose more yield through overtemp than through the 3-5% reduction in light intensity through the Pyrex. Also, when the vast majority of heat from lights is removed by the constant operation of cooltube fans during lights-on, you can significantly derate how much fan power you need for the room's main exhaust blower. Before I used cooltubes, my ~500cu ft flowering room struggled to stay under 26-27C (in summer in particular) even with a monster 250mm, 200W 650CFM exhaust blower assisted by 2x 150mm intake blowers. Could probably get by these days with a single 150mm or 200mm on exhaust and a 150mm on the intake.

* Shoot nutrient strength low rather than high. You will probably find that you get by just fine on half or less of the mfr's recommendations. You lose less yield from slight underfert than you do from nute burning. 

* More is not always (in fact, usually not) better with growing plants. There's a bell curve to this- there's 'not enough,' 'just right' and 'dead.' The only exception is lighting, where there's no such thing as too much light, as long as you can maintain room air temps in the 24-26C range. 

* Avoid magic sauces. They're mostly water and rarely justify their cost. If there's no solid botanical evidence supporting the use of an additive, skip it. If the mfr doesn't tell you what's in a magic sauce (which is common), you can't establish the scientific evidence necessary to justify the use of any given magic sauce. If you do want to mess with these things, the only way to establish efficacy is to run comparison grows; that means (at least) two crops side by side under the same lighting in the same room. Most grow rooms' conditions are not totally and perfectly climate controlled year-round. They usually vary significantly from crop to crop. Comparisons based on serial crops can be coloured by variations in room conditions. Only side-by-side comparisons eliminate the variations in conditions and give you a clear indication of the merit of any additive. As a rule, find out what works for you and keep doing it the same way. Don't change anything without being strongly convinced that the change is helpful.

* 'Organic' doesn't mean 'good' or even 'better.' In the case of reliable, repeatable, constant rotating harvest ops, inorganic nutes are superior as you can use H2O2 with them. Can't count the number of new growers who get sucked into organics and then have root rot problems they can't solve with 'organic' enzyme-based pathogen controls. Organic nutrients are composed of complex biomatters (e.g. bat guano, worm castings, etc) which the plants can't assimilate directly. You depend upon organic nutrients to break down into N, P & K in the rootzone (at not always well-known rates) before the plants can eat them. May as well use inorganic nutes which are already in that state and also have a solid idea of nutrient strength and bioavailability, as well as have the ability to use (regularly applied) H2O2, which is a sure-fire, every single time solution to root probs. 

rotsaruck.


----------



## snow4aaron (Jul 19, 2009)

Hey Al,
Thanks for the advice last week. It helped a lot. Would you stop by my journal to offer some of your wizdom? 

Thanks!


----------



## brontobrandon1 (Jul 20, 2009)

Wow al those are some good tips, but i have one question.. How do you do your reservoir change?? At the moment i am having to cary 20 gallons of water back iin for to my bath tub haha. I mean it isnt that bad but when i move into my house soon im running your same op. Should i just Pump it out hahaa?

later bro


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 20, 2009)

brontobrandon1 said:


> Wow al those are some good tips, but i have one question.. How do you do your reservoir change?? At the moment i am having to cary 20 gallons of water back iin for to my bath tub haha. I mean it isnt that bad but when i move into my house soon im running your same op. *Should i just Pump it out hahaa?*
> 
> later bro


That is what most of us do...

I have a long hose dedicated to this job... filling and draining...

This is straight from Al's gallery...



Al.b Fuct said:


> Al B. Fuct
> 
> 
> 
> ...


​


----------



## brontobrandon1 (Jul 20, 2009)

wow i went thru the whole thread almost haha it just kept going its so hard to read so much, but i still am. i must have missed that. Thank You so much gypsy, thats what i figured i do i have a really strong pump so it should be pretty quick.

later!


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## fredfred (Jul 27, 2009)

Al b Fuct, I ended up smoking a very nice skunk no1 last Christmas after following your previous threads, I thought u had passed into the great blue yonder (wherever that fkin is) so tyvm cobber.


----------



## fredfred (Jul 27, 2009)

And wow GypsyBush nice results to say the least.


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## Al B. Fuct (Jul 27, 2009)

snow4aaron said:


> Hey Al,
> Thanks for the advice last week. It helped a lot. Would you stop by my journal to offer some of your wizdom?


 Will if I can but I don't have much time to put into pot boards at the moment. I simply don't have time to get caught up in troubleshooting grows. Quite a lot of what you need to know has already been covered in my cloning, '2 weeks' or other sticky threads.



brontobrandon1 said:


> Thank You so much gypsy, thats what i figured i do i have a really strong pump so it should be pretty quick.


 Yep, thanks for covering the tank drain query, GB. 



fredfred said:


> Al b Fuct, I ended up smoking a very nice skunk no1 last Christmas after following your previous threads, I thought u had passed into the great blue yonder (wherever that fkin is) so tyvm cobber.


no wucking furries, mate.


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 27, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Yep, thanks for covering the tank drain query, GB.



I love your drawings... 

Thanks you for leaving them for us...

I probably visit your gallery more than anyone... including you...

I have pasted them onto dozens of threads...

They're always spot on... and with no need to explain with words... 

THANK YOU!


----------



## iloveit (Jul 28, 2009)

Hey Al, I did feel hesitant in asking you this but this issue is new & Im totally bamboozled so here we go:

Usually my clones look great apart from some yellowing which Im sure is standard but now the new set of leaves are beginning to crumble & wither they are also turning in to a slight pale yellowy green colour with dark brown blotches. I just dont know why. Here are the environment conditions & pics:

25C
80%rh min
Plain unPHed tap water with a little superthrive
2inches away from 2 x 18W fluorescents.

First planted the clones in rootriot then transferred to Biobizz soil (light mix) when roots showed, they are currently in the first day of veg. Id like for them to pick up in a week then theyll go in to flowering.
The same signs are showing on my other 2 batches of clones.












































The below pics are larger clones which were cut on 16/07/09 which are also in Biobizz soil (light mix) but I thought Id try out these Jiffy pots, Ive heard by using these pots they can become root bound 
so Ive transplanted in to larger black pots & the leaves are beginning to crumble just like the first batch


----------



## brucetree (Jul 28, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Hey Al, I did feel hesitant in asking you this but this issue is new & Im totally bamboozled so here we go:
> 
> Usually my clones look great apart from some yellowing which Im sure is standard but now the new set of leaves are beginning to crumble & wither they are also turning in to a slight pale yellowy green colour with dark brown blotches. I just dont know why. Here are the environment conditions & pics:
> 
> ...


ph your water dood


----------



## iloveit (Jul 28, 2009)

I thought it was over watering so Ive been waiting for the soil to dry but come next watering Ill PH & maybe feed (biobizz grow) at 1/4 strength. Cheers dude.


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## brucetree (Jul 28, 2009)

iloveit said:


> I thought it was over watering so Ive been waiting for the soil to dry but come next watering Ill PH & maybe feed (biobizz grow) at 1/4 strength. Cheers dude.


no need to feed yet, def wait for soil to dry out before watering. ph to 6.3


----------



## iloveit (Jul 28, 2009)

brucetree said:


> no need to feed yet, def wait for soil to dry out before watering. ph to 6.3


I was planning on PHing at 6.5 but Ill give it a try.
Whats a good sign that the plants ar in need of feeding?


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## GypsyBush (Jul 28, 2009)

Al.. I must admit...

Such high plant count got to me and I faltered...

In the process of updating the op to another room... I decided to grow big trees... like MBlaze (Mr. 2 pound a plant...)

But the electric bill is saying I can't do this...

I just cannot justify months of HIDs running to make leaf...

As soon as these big girls are done, I am humbly hurrying back to my trays...

But just to prove I did't loose my faith... I kept half of my op as a SOG...

Check the latest pics...

A 2 tray SOG keeps on giving...
_ 






















Cindy escaped me yesterday... but not today... she's gettin' chopped...














and the "other side"...












_


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## iloveit (Jul 28, 2009)

What type of reflective insulation padding are you using on the walls Gypsy? Iv seen Heath setup with something similar.


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 28, 2009)

iloveit said:


> What type of reflective insulation padding are you using on the walls Gypsy? Iv seen Heath setup with something similar.


same deal...

it's called REFLECTIX... available at hardware stores...

basically... mylar encased bubble wrap...

http://www.reflectixinc.com/basepage.asp?PageIndex=729#ReflectiveInsulations


----------



## iloveit (Jul 28, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> same deal...
> 
> it's called REFLECTIX... available at hardware stores...
> 
> ...


I was considering panel insulation to prevent heat detection from FLIR/thermal cams, just wondering if the walls get warm when this padding is applied does the padding ever feel warm to the touch?


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## GypsyBush (Jul 28, 2009)

iloveit said:


> I was considering panel insulation to prevent heat detection from FLIR/thermal cams, just wondering if the walls get warm when this padding is applied does the padding ever feel warm to the touch?


no it doesnt...



website said:


> http://www.reflectixinc.com/basepage.asp?PageIndex=729#ReflectiveInsulations
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## iloveit (Jul 29, 2009)

Cheers dude.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Jul 30, 2009)

iloveit said:


> I thought it was over watering


yeppers, it's overwatering. Judge the watering by the weight of the pots. When about half to 2/3 of the water weight is gone, it's time to water again, but not before. Might be every other day or even less. 

I don't do soil so I can't tell you what the pH should be. You're also on your own with organic noots. Sorry. 



iloveit said:


> I was considering panel insulation to prevent heat detection from FLIR/thermal cams, just wondering if the walls get warm when this padding is applied does the padding ever feel warm to the touch?


Well insulated house construction along with effective ventilation is usually enough to prevent a wall "looking" warm to FLIR, but remember that it is unlawful for police to FLIR scan a dwelling without a warrant. Randomly FLIR scanning dwellings is a major _*nyet*_ and would get any evidence against you thrown out of court. 

If you're really worried about FLIR anyway, you can hire FLIR cameras for a couple hundred $/day from your local test & measurement hire company and look for yourself. Also very useful to survey the condition of your house's insulation, can help you find dodgy power wiring connections, exhaust system leaks on your car, etc.


----------



## LoudBlunts (Jul 30, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> hay LB, wozzup?
> 
> No ghosts here. They really hate people who think the supernatural is ridiculous bunkum. And they'll haunt you until you go mad. Or grow dope.


sorry for the delayed response brother Fuct.

glad to see you alive and still kicking it.

i've been laying low myself...keeping my nose clean and keeping my blunts and bongs full


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## iloveit (Jul 30, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> yeppers, it's overwatering. Judge the watering by the weight of the pots. When about half to 2/3 of the water weight is gone, it's time to water again, but not before. Might be every other day or even less.
> 
> I don't do soil so I can't tell you what the pH should be. You're also on your own with organic noots. Sorry.
> 
> ...


O well a helloooo,
These clones look in a bad shape they havent grown in a week, I watered until it ran out the drain holes & watered only once. Man hydro was a lot easier.

Im not sure if similar rules apply in U.K. but many people are getting caught for growing pot weather its 4 plants or 400, chopper coppers above our houses every day I am considering hiring out a FLIR gun just to be on the safe side. Your a great help Al thank you.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Aug 17, 2009)

no worries. 

I'd turn down the paranoia about cop helicopters unless you're growing outside. 

The best cure for paranoia is more info. If you're worried about FLIR, just hire one and look at your place. If you don't like what you see, you can do stuff to fix it. Prevent the walls from being warmed by radiant heat from your lights. A room lined with pandafilm with a small air gap between the panda film and the wall will usually be sufficient. Exhaust air can be cooled by dumping it into an intermediate airspace like an attic. This will drop the temp and disperse the exhaust through several attic air vents before it goes outside.


----------



## GrowTech (Aug 17, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> no worries.
> 
> I'd turn down the paranoia about cop helicopters unless you're growing outside.
> 
> The best cure for paranoia is more info. If you're worried about FLIR, just hire one and look at your place. If you don't like what you see, you can do stuff to fix it. Prevent the walls from being warmed by radiant heat from your lights. A room lined with pandafilm with a small air gap between the panda film and the wall will usually be sufficient. Exhaust air can be cooled by dumping it into an intermediate airspace like an attic. This will drop the temp and disperse the exhaust through several attic air vents before it goes outside.


Love how fuct provides an appropriate solution to all of lifes problems.

How about you fix this fuct economy?   

Hope you're doin' well bro.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Aug 17, 2009)

GrowTech said:


> How about you fix this fuct economy?


First, kill all the capitalists.  

Second, ban the secondary trading of stocks (purchase from the issuing company only, sell back to the company only); make dividends the only legal profit to be made from stocks. 

Third, nationalise the banks and regulate them to within an inch of their lives to prevent predatory and discriminatory lending.



> Hope you're doin' well bro.


yeh, doing OK, thanks.


----------



## iloveit (Aug 17, 2009)

Hey Al, I was viewing your pics of your cooltube attached with a batwing reflector, I just wanna know if your modified it or did you purchase it as is. Ive been searching for that lighting system in UK but no results.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Aug 17, 2009)

You probably won't find my lighting arrangement ready-made. I added a 500mm x 150mm cooltube to an Adjust-A-Wings reflector to get what you see in my op.


----------



## NewGrowth (Aug 17, 2009)

Al how goes the editorial?


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## Al B. Fuct (Aug 17, 2009)

Just between you & I, it's annoying. I'd rather be working in the op.


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## SOG (Aug 17, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> You probably won't find my lighting arrangement ready-made. I added a 500mm x 150mm cooltube to an Adjust-A-Wings reflector to get what you see in my op.


sup Al
here a visual


----------



## iloveit (Aug 17, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> You probably won't find my lighting arrangement ready-made. I added a 500mm x 150mm cooltube to an Adjust-A-Wings reflector to get what you see in my op.


Ah thought so.


----------



## iloveit (Aug 17, 2009)

SOG said:


> sup Al
> here a visual


Hey SOG thanks for the pic how did attach the reflector to the cooltube simple screws?

By the way hope everything is better at home.


----------



## SOG (Aug 17, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Hey SOG thanks for the pic how did attach the reflector to the cooltube simple screws?
> 
> By the way hope everything is better at home.


ty bra, things are slowly getting back to normal
i used a plumbers tape to make a bracket
these are 8" tubes with the large WWA


----------



## iloveit (Aug 18, 2009)

SOG said:


> ty bra, things are slowly getting back to normal
> i used a plumbers tape to make a bracket
> these are 8" tubes with the large WWA



Cheers, good to know its settling down.


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 28, 2009)

I thought I'd bring this to you Al....


----------



## Johnny Retro (Aug 28, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Hi yawl, just popped in for a lookabout. Want you all to know how mightily impressed I am with the general quality of discussion and advice going round the boards. I had feared that when I no longer had time to answer grow op queries that this place would devolve back to pseudocience-spouting. It mostly hasn't. YAY!
> 
> When I first showed up here a few years back, muddleheaded fans of molasses, CFLs for everything, LEDs and organic nutes were leading earnest new growers down the rosy garden path.
> 
> ...


 Didnt realize what section i was in.. nevermind


----------



## KnowledgeSeeker (Sep 4, 2009)

Hey Al B! First off let me get this out of the way.... THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! I'm one of those Al B. crazies that has read every page of Get a harvest every 2 weeks, Clones in rockwool, and the Al B. Fuct FAQ. I have learned more from you than anyone else. Thank you for taking the time and effort to educate and assist us noobs.

Now, I'm finally setting up my first grow room and i'm trying to work out the cooling and ventilation. I posted this thread https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/237102-cooling-idea.html but haven't had any responses so I thought I would bring it to the master. Would you mind taking a look?

Also, my journal is here https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/232930-first-grow-3000w-ebb-gro.html which of course includes props to you. If you have some time to critique any feedback would be welcome.

Thanks again Al. B!


----------



## Cyproz (Sep 18, 2009)

Hey man i had a question you said"

yep, SOG grows a 'sea' of top colas- only. Since tops are the biggest and most dense buds the plant can produce, SoG ops produce more per sq ft than any other method."

on a comment of the picture you drew.

i was wondering if you think chopping my side branches off for more yield. I wasnt sure on the SOG if you did or not. 

here 2 pics on my grow


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## LuciferX (Sep 19, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Hey SOG thanks for the pic how did attach the reflector to the cooltube simple screws?
> 
> By the way hope everything is better at home.


I bought one that had the screw holes already drilled for the reflecter, I think it's called a coolstar.


----------



## WoldofWeedcraft (Sep 19, 2009)

Cyproz said:


> Hey man i had a question
> 
> i was wondering if you think chopping my side branches off for more yield. I wasnt sure on the SOG if you did or not.


At this point I would say keep them on those in the pics, because you want to prune those sides off early before they get too far into flowering. Also looks like yours stretched a bit. Just my $0.02...


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 20, 2009)

SOG said:


> i used a plumbers tape to make a bracket


 I hope that the tape held. It's really hard to find any sort of tape that sticks for long in a grow room, between the heat and humidity.



GypsyBush said:


> I thought I'd bring this to you Al....


 heh, thanks GB. 



KnowledgeSeeker said:


> Hey Al B! First off let me get this out of the way.... THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! I'm one of those Al B. crazies that has read every page of Get a harvest every 2 weeks, Clones in rockwool, and the Al B. Fuct FAQ. I have learned more from you than anyone else. Thank you for taking the time and effort to educate and assist us noobs.


 You're welcome, welcome, welcome. 



> Now, I'm finally setting up my first grow room and i'm trying to work out the cooling and ventilation. I posted this thread https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/237102-cooling-idea.html but haven't had any responses so I thought I would bring it to the master. Would you mind taking a look?


 Thanks for the compliment, but I can't make any promises to visit your journal. I'm simply too busy to commit to following individual journals. Invariably what happens is that I put a comment on a journal, which in turn generates more questions- then I'm away from the pot boards for some months... and people are then summarily disappointed. 

If you have a specific question, put it in this thread and I'll get to it as I can. Keeps everything in one place, which is not just helpful to me but also to others following this thread, preventing me from repeating answers to similar questions. 



Cyproz said:


> i was wondering if you think chopping my side branches off for more yield. I wasnt sure on the SOG if you did or not.


Yep, SoG is all about growing only the top colas and packing in as many plants as possible in the lighted space. Lower branches always produce smaller, less dense buds than you find on the mainstem- the small buds are poor producers and difficult to manicure. The small lower branches function mainly to restrict airflow around the plants. Best to snip them early in the piece, generally at the end of wks 1 & 3 of flowering. Anything longer than about 1", which will be mainly on the lower 1/3 of the plant should go.



WoldofWeedcraft said:


> At this point I would say keep them on those in the pics, because you want to prune those sides off early before they get too far into flowering. Also looks like yours stretched a bit. Just my $0.02...


Agreed. Lots of things can cause stretch like this. Air temps might have been a bit high, clones might have been vegged for a while before the plants were stuck in to flower instead of being put in to flower immediately after the clones had a good set of roots, etc etc.


----------



## SpruceZeus (Oct 20, 2009)

Howdy Al.

Just sending some SOG love your way. 















Thank you for the inspiration!


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 20, 2009)

Noice woik. My only suggestion would be to rotate your lights 90 degrees. The light pattern of a horizontal fixture is somewhere between oblong and rectangular, perpendicular to the lamp tube. The way you have the fixtures oriented now, your light pattern ends are on the floor, when they could be putting some light down on the adjacent trays.


----------



## dirtysteve (Nov 7, 2009)

Hey Al,
Don't know if you come in here any more, but...

I just harvested the bulk of my crop. I had a few that were done early and when I dried them in the bud dryer i built they ended up smelling like hay. I really dont want that to happen to the buds I just cut. Any ideas on fixing this? I just read a thread from FDD about "The other side of the coin: Quick Drying". Old thread and I didn't find the answer I was looking for. Thanks in advance. Hope all is well.
DS


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Nov 7, 2009)

dirtysteve said:


> Hey Al,
> Don't know if you come in here any more, but...
> 
> I just harvested the bulk of my crop. I had a few that were done early and when I dried them in the bud dryer i built they ended up smelling like hay. I really dont want that to happen to the buds I just cut. Any ideas on fixing this? I just read a thread from FDD about "The other side of the coin: Quick Drying". Old thread and I didn't find the answer I was looking for. Thanks in advance. Hope all is well.
> DS


If you read FDD's commentary all the way through that thread, you'll find that he eventually built his own bud dryer and uses it to dry his buds now. 

A bud dryer simply will not be the cause of anything 'smelling like hay.' If buds come out of a dryer 'smelling like hay' then they'd do the same if the buds were hang dried. A properly operating bud dryer which holds air temp to 29C max will dry in about 3 days, accomplishing exactly the same thing as hang drying except preventing any possibility of mould, which is common in hang drying.

A few things could have happened to yield buds with poor flavour. Buds which yield rich, perfumey smoke have lots of resin compared to the cellulose leaf matter content. If one harvests so prematurely that the majority of the material is comprised primarily of leaf, which has very little resin compared to the mass of cellulose plant matter, buds will be harsh to smoke and have poor flavour. Poor quality DNA could also have yielded buds with low resin content. 

On thing is certain, a properly operating bud dryer, built to perform as I specified, won't cause this problem.


----------



## dirtysteve (Nov 8, 2009)

I never thought the dryer would cause it. Just wondering if my process was off a bit. the dryer I built works great. Dry buds in three days. I am fairly certain that the fact that I had a dirty hermie pollenate my crop is the main reason for the poor quality of the product. I had a few plants that grew out to their potential and they are nice with only a few seeds. Man it is a tough reality to put more than two months work into seedy bud. Oh well. Lesson learned and now I got a zillion seeds. Thanks for the time Al.


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## daniism (Nov 10, 2009)

Hi Al, I just wanted to thank you for your post on "harvest a pound every two weeks." Your thread had encouraged me on how to set up my first grow.

Do you mind checking out my thread and also helping me out by pointing out in the right direction with your awesome knowledge?

https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/268731-new-grower-please-help.html

Thanks, you're a G!


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## NS775 (Nov 18, 2009)

Al b., thanks for confirming my intuition that organics have no place in my res despite the constant barrage of bad advice from hydro store workers and friends whom have jumped on the organics bandwagon.

Regarding the hay smell; I'm still a newb here so take this at face value.... but after my 1st grow (Bagseed, 600W, FauxAero w/ bubbler, almost 1/2 lb yield) I noticed that while still wet the buds smelled great, stunk up the whole house. Tried to trim a bud while it was wet and it gunked up the scissors in resin real quick. Upon reaching proper dryness they had that hay smell a bit, but after a few days of curing it seems like the Hay smell dissapated and the proper stank came back a little. I dunno, maybe its all just in my head.


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## doogleef (Nov 18, 2009)

I know the "wet hay" smell you are referring to. Like you said, it goes away after a couple days curing.


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## punker (Nov 19, 2009)

AL-B can i get some info on H2o2 this is my grow...https://www.rollitup.org/cfl-growing/259390-gods-gift-sour-bubble-cfl.html... and I wanted to start mixing nutrilife's 29% h2o2... any input?


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## doogleef (Nov 19, 2009)

Use 2ml/gallon of the 29%. Add directly to reservoir. Close enough for govt.work 

I don't have anything nice to say about CFLs. Upgrade to a real light ASAP. Environment is everything. HPS and a proper fan are a must for anyone who wants nice dense nugs. I can't tell you the number of CFL growers i've seen get to a disappointing end and move up to real lights for the second round. 

Good luck, friend.


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## punker (Nov 19, 2009)

doogleef said:


> Use 2ml/gallon of the 29%. Add directly to reservoir. Close enough for govt.work
> 
> I don't have anything nice to say about CFLs. Upgrade to a real light ASAP. Environment is everything. HPS and a proper fan are a must for anyone who wants nice dense nugs. I can't tell you the number of CFL growers i've seen get to a disappointing end and move up to real lights for the second round.
> 
> Good luck, friend.


Yeah I upgraded to a 400W before i started flowering, look at the last page of the post and you will see the plants.


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 14, 2009)

punker said:


> AL-B can i get some info on H2o2 this is my grow...https://www.rollitup.org/cfl-growing/259390-gods-gift-sour-bubble-cfl.html... and I wanted to start mixing nutrilife's 29% h2o2... any input?


29% is an odd strength. Can't recall ever having seen that before. Usually, you find 35% ('food grade', usually sold by foodservice goods sellers for sterilising foodservice equip) and 50% 'horticultural grade.'

I use 50% grade H2O2 @ 1ml/L every 3-4 days. 

Make friends mit der metric system!  1 US gallon = 3.78L, so the equiv for 50% is 3.78ml/gallon. 

50% is 1.72x stronger than 29% (50/29=1.72), so use 1.72ml/L or 6.5ml of 29% per US gal.

You can get this fairly wrong- plants are quite tolerant of H2O2. For example, you can dose tanks at 10ml/L to one-time shock-treat a system with a big pathogen load, with no harm to plants.


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## dirtysteve (Dec 15, 2009)

I think that the 29% is coming from pool supply shops. That's where I have seen it. 



> You can get this fairly wrong- plants are quite tolerant of H2O2. For example, you can dose tanks at 10ml/L to one-time shock-treat a system with a big pathogen load, with no harm to plants.


True that. My system runs cleaner with 2 - 2.5 ml of 35% H2O2 per gallon. I still had a substantial amount of nasty growth in my res with the smaller dose. After I bumped it up a bit things were golden.


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## Fman (Dec 15, 2009)

This is what I got at the local Hydro shop



They used to carry Grotek, but this is what they got now. I just bumped up to 2/ml per liter. Seems to work just as well as the 35%.


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## slh puffer (Dec 18, 2009)

al.b fuct i'm not sure if im disrespecting you or not but i want to build a system this will be my first grown and im wondering between the stinkbud system(harvest a 1lk every 3 weeks) and your system which one would give me the best result with the least electrical bill im planning on growing super lemon haze and have a basement to work in.I have had qoutes of 4-7 oz per plant using stinkbuds system how many plants per cycle can i harvest using 2x1000w bulbs and for a plant that take 10 weeks to flower what would my setup look like???


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## AllAboutIt (Dec 18, 2009)

Wats up AL B. i have a little question about the "Cheapo aero" cloner. What should the timer schedule be?(whats the best "big store" timer that you have found)....yep thats it call me simple but.... just dont call me wrong  TY


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 18, 2009)

Fman said:


> Seems to work just as well as the 35%.


 yep, should be fine, it's the same stuff, just more water added. 

One caveat about using really low strength H2O2 is that below a certain packaged strength, stabilisers must be added to prevent the H2O2 from breaking down into 2H2O + O2 while still in the retail container.

From Wikipedia:


> Hydrogen peroxide available at drug stores is three percent solution. In such small concentrations, it is less stable, and decomposes faster. It is usually stabilized with acetanilide, a substance which has toxic side effects in significant amounts.


From h2o2.com:


> [SIZE=-1]*What are H2O2 stabilizers and will they affect my application?* [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Most commercial grades of H2O2 contain chelants and sequestrants which minimize its decomposition under normal storage and handling conditions. In some applications (e.g., copper etching or cosmetic formulations) a high degree of stabilization is needed; whereas, in others (e.g., drinking water treatment or semiconductor manufacture) product purity is more important. For most environmental applications, H2O2 stabilization does not affect product performance. [/SIZE]
> [SIZE=-1]The types of stabilizers used in H2O2 vary between producers and product grades. Colloidal [sodium] stannate and sodium pyrophosphate (present at 25 - 250 mg/L) are the traditional mainstays, although organophosphonates (e.g., Monsanto&#8217;s Dequest products) are increasingly common. Other additives may include nitrate (for pH adjustment and corrosion inhibition) and phosphoric acid (for pH adjustment). Certain end-uses -- which depend on the bleaching ability of H2O2 in alkali &#8211; utilize colloidal silicate to sequester metals and thereby minimize H2O2 decomposition.[/SIZE]


 High strength H2O2 as found in hydro shops will not have stabilisers. The breakdown components of stabilisers can cause problems for hydroponic growers, notably if it's sodium.



slh puffer said:


> al.b fuct i'm not sure if im disrespecting you or not but i want to build a system this will be my first grown and im wondering between the stinkbud system


No disrespect taken. 

I've never heard of the 'stinkbud system.'



AllAboutIt said:


> Wats up AL B. i have a little question about the "Cheapo aero" cloner. What should the timer schedule be?(whats the best "big store" timer that you have found)....yep thats it call me simple but.... just dont call me wrong  TY


I don't use aerocloners. Tried them, never got one to work well. Even with H2O2 regularly applied in the solution, I usually got stem tip rot. Others have made them work well, I never have.


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 18, 2009)

OK, got curious & looked up the Stinkbud System. 

SB & I differ on a few notable points. 

SB veges plants before flowering, as opposed to my system which flowers clones immediately after they have developed a good root system. SB grows larger individual plants than I do but fewer of them. Instead of maintaining mother plants in a separate area, SB takes cuttings from his plants in veg growth. SB uses aeroponics, as opposed to my flood trays which support plants in pots of Fytocell foam media. SB uses CO2, I don't. We both use a dehumidifier and cooltubed lighting. SB 'cures' buds after drying; I don't find the step necessary. 

Every grow op will be tailored to how the grower likes to work. My problem is that I don't like to work.  I've said it a million times in here, I'm a lazy stoner. 

As one result of my slackness, I use flood systems with plants in pots of media because it's deadly reliable; aeroponic systems like SB's require power backup to the water pumps to get the plants through a power outage. I can safely totally ignore my op for up to 3 days at a time if I want to. A pump can fail but the media will hold up to 3 days' backup water supply. The water storage in the media obviates the need for a UPS to run the water pumps in my system, as well. 

Aeroponic watering systems have one very serious Achilles' heel from a slacker's viewpoint- sprayers. Nutrient solutions have a lot of dissolved solids; it you atomise the solution, those solids fall out of solution and collect as nutrient salt crusts, in particular on the sprayer nozzles themselves. If you don't clean sprayers VERY frequently, they'll clog- this is an every day or every other day task- or you lose plants and have to buy replacement sprayers when they're too clogged to clean. However, I'm quite confident that SB gets better plant performance in flowering. Nothing beats aeroponics for getting oxygen to the roots. However, SB & I get similar yields per sq ft of grow op space. 

SB takes clones from the plants he's vegging. SB vegges under a 250 and has 2x 1000HPS in the flowering area. Because I don't veg the plants I'm going to flower, I maintain a separate mother plant area. It takes all of 4 sq ft to maintain 10 mums. I use a 400HPS for mums but could probably use a 250. We're both using about the same lighting gear, with cooltubes mainly dealing with heat. I don't use CO2 because it would require aircon. The cost of the CO2 tank and CO2 management system are nutty kind of expensive and involve ongoing costs for tank rental and refills. Aircon is exxy to buy and run- for cooling my op, it'd take about the 1/4-1/2 the cost of running a 1000HPS. I'm pretty confident my op costs that little bit less to run. 

SB is claiming 1lb every 3 weeks. I get at least 1lb, usually 1.5, every 2 weeks. Eliminating the veg step is what makes my op slightly quicker. Higher plant mass density, which is a key feature of straight Sea-of-Green growing, as I do, accounts for my better yields with the same lighting. 

SB is a great grower and a skilled writer. His guide is to the point and well documented. He's much more energetic than I am!


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## dbo24242 (Dec 18, 2009)

I came just in time to catch that synopsis I was just looking at your threads. Anywho I am lookin to get perpetual under my 600w and I have a tent which can fit a 4'x4' tray but I only want to put a 3'x3' in there. using 3.4 litre square pots I could fit a max of 36 plants in the flood tray (on a 20 gal res I guess). From what I gather it will cost $115 for the reservoir, $115 for the tray, $50 for the fittings and pump: that about right?

edit:
don't wanna make another post but I realized I forgot about the table... hmmmmmm I donno if flood and drain is quite right for me. I live on second floor and no running water on this level so I would have to drain the reservoir out of the window or with a very long tube hahaha, entirely possible I suppose.

I saw that an average price for a 3x3 tray, table, 30gal res, and 350gph pump, is around $450. so idk if this is realllly in my price range for the moment. I was really thinkin about picking up some of the durable square storage containers and stacking those think that would work out at all?


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 18, 2009)

dbo, the cost for the tray is a tick high (I pay about $AUD52 for a 900mmx900mm tray), the pump & fittings are about right, but you could save some big dough on the rez tank by using a plain old plastic storage tub from the dollar shops. 3'x3' is a good size for a 600 but a 1000 will improve your yield and density, at a certain cost for the extra mains power. You might start with a 600 and upgrade later but bear in mind that the 600 ballast won't run a 1000, so will become surplus upon upgrade and won't have much resale value. 36 plants is about right for a 600, 48 if you use a pair of 3'x3' trays under a 1000. Rez capacity should be about 5L per plant to facilitate steady EC while water level drops on a bi-weekly tank dump basis.


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## dbo24242 (Dec 18, 2009)

cool so really all you need is the tray, table and fill/drain fittings?

are there certain fittings that are better than others in terms of sealing? I wouldn't want leaks... wouldn't ruin everything but I just wouldn't want any drippin going on with my fittings you know? I would buy the botanicare 3x3 which is prolly $60 CAD and then the fittings $10-$15 then its just whatever I use as a res is the res eh at least 30 gal tote. 

hard part is just the table to hold the dang tray up... I suppose I could go to the thrift store and cut a big hole out hahah!


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 18, 2009)

dbo24242 said:


> cool so really all you need is the tray, table and fill/drain fittings?


Those are about the only things you need to get quite specifically from a hydro shop, yeah. I'd check local commercial lighting suppliers to compare prices for your ballast, socket, reflector, etc. Hydro shops often are competitive with other suppliers on lighting; they really make most of their profit on nutes and other consumables. 



> are there certain fittings that are better than others in terms of sealing?


Not really- all usually come with rubber O-ring seals. However, you DO want to plan to protect the floors in your op (unless they're durable, i.e. tile or concrete). 



> I wouldn't want leaks... wouldn't ruin everything but I just wouldn't want any drippin going on with my fittings you know? I would buy the botanicare 3x3 which is prolly $60 CAD and then the fittings $10-$15 then its just whatever I use as a res is the res eh at least 30 gal tote.


Trays do eventually crack, spills do happen. Upside is that flood systems have their rez tanks under the trays, so if a tray cracks, it usually just leaks into the tank below. It's smart to cover floors with thick plastic (excess panda film is great) and create a catch basin by putting a square frame of 2x4 or 2x6 timbers under the plastic sheeting. 




> hard part is just the table to hold the dang tray up... I suppose I could go to the thrift store and cut a big hole out hahah!


Nah, tray stands are easy and cheap. Tray stands are usually made from 1" square aluminum tubing, joined with plastic Qubelok connectors suiting 1" square tube. Aluminum won't corrode and Qubeloks are tough as nails. Get these items at your local hdwe, don't pay hydro shop prices for them if you can avoid it.


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 18, 2009)

Qubelok details: *http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f78/26390d1152786997-4-way-pvc-fittings-qubelok.jpg*


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## dbo24242 (Dec 18, 2009)

ah qubelock looks cool I'll check the hardware stores for that sort of thing... I was thinking I might just need to use 1" PVC and I have a plan for that as well I'll be visiting the hardware store tomorrow, as well as the hydro store.

forgot I need a pump too but I think I'll make it under $140 or $150. I've gathered that I will need about a 350gph pump for the 30-40 gal res.

for the fitting do I need just the one fill/drain fitting or should I get the overflow kit so it automatically dumps? donnnooo how often am I going to be watering? I have a 28 slot digital timer so I could do on/off settings with the pump.


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## don2009 (Dec 18, 2009)

WOW! The legend is back I'm new to RIU a few months ago it's addicting and I'm growing hydro flood & drain system I went to the hydroponic section and seen your Thread it's unbelivable then I stared to look at other ppl threads and I swear they try to talk like you be like you grow everything you are def an insperation to this whole website I can't belive I'am actullay saying something to the godfather of RIU I tell my girlfriend about you all my friends and I always refer other RIU members to your thread I read it a few times and plan on reading again you seem madd cool and very intelligent and I hope you countinue to pop in and say whats up once in awhile to us I hope all is well with you and thank you for your info.


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 18, 2009)

dbo24242 said:


> ah qubelock looks cool I'll check the hardware stores for that sort of thing... I was thinking I might just need to use 1" PVC and I have a plan for that as well I'll be visiting the hardware store tomorrow, as well as the hydro store.


I don't think 1" PVC will be strong enough. Do the aluminum tube with Qubeloks. 



> forgot I need a pump too but I think I'll make it under $140 or $150. I've gathered that I will need about a 350gph pump for the 30-40 gal res.


All your pump has to do is fill the tray to the overflow tube (about 5 mins) and then shut off. Doesn't take much pump to do that! I'm thinking a $20-30 pump. Size is very non-critical in a flood sys. Pays to buy a spare pump to keep on hand, they die in about 12-14 mos. 



> for the fitting do I need just the one fill/drain fitting or should I get the overflow kit so it automatically dumps?


You need both. 









> donnnooo how often am I going to be watering? I have a 28 slot digital timer so I could do on/off settings with the pump.


Any digital timer will do for water pumps. It just has to run for about 5 mins, 1x-2x/day. 



don2009 said:


> WOW! The legend is back I'm new to RIU a few months ago it's addicting and I'm growing hydro flood & drain system I went to the hydroponic section and seen your Thread it's unbelivable then I stared to look at other ppl threads and I swear they try to talk like you be like you grow everything you are def an insperation to this whole website I can't belive I'am actullay saying something to the godfather of RIU I tell my girlfriend about you all my friends and I always refer other RIU members to your thread I read it a few times and plan on reading again you seem madd cool and very intelligent and I hope you countinue to pop in and say whats up once in awhile to us I hope all is well with you and thank you for your info.


heh, I'm glad my info is useful to you, but I'm not terribly legendary. Just another stoned slacker growing dope. Thanks for the compliments.


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## NewGrowth (Dec 18, 2009)

You back at it now Al?


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## brucetree (Dec 18, 2009)

a little bird told me your responsible for this and wants to thank you.


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 18, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> You back at it now Al?


Just visiting. 



brucetree said:


> a little bird told me your responsible for this and wants to thank you.


Well done! Keep at it.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 18, 2009)

dbo24242 said:


> hard part is just the table to hold the dang tray up... I suppose I could go to the thrift store and cut a big hole out hahah!


You could make a stand out of 2x4s for about $4 - I'm as "un-handy" as they come and I made it - just be careful if you have height issues, I'm struggling at 7'.



Good seeing you Al, had a question or two if you wouldn't mind:

1) Thinking of doing 144 plants in a 4x4 tent for my next grow (shooting for Feb. 1 start of 12/12) - any specific issues that you can think of / have heard of from someone trying to pack them in that tight?

Figure I'll flower at ~2-3" to get them to finish at about 10-12" - it's a 4x4 tent, E&F, sealed (CO2 constant at 1500PPMs), 3.5" (8.75ish cm) square plastic pots filled with hydroton flooded once every two hours with lights on, once in the middle of lights off, 2.5EC, 67F, 5.8 pH, rooted in rapid rooters (organic tree bark, think "trendy jiffy pellets"), aircooled light, etc. Most likely will be doing Super Skunk.

Would prefer running 64, but there's a height restriction in my design setup (long story short, not worth me fixing before I move the equipment to a bigger tent (8x4, if not two, where I will be running 64 per 4x4 tray, perpetually).

Like you, I'm lazy - plus now, I'm kinda looking forward to the challenge of it.

2) One more question, if you wouldn't mind - my RH stays right about 52-53%, even with a dehumidifier running 24/7 in the tent - any idea how detrimental that is to the plant's ability to increase respiration and therefore how unnecessary the CO2 enrichment is to the point that I take it? 

Same issue as the height issues before - dehumidifier is "stuck" under the tray, where little no air flows - will be remedied when they move to a larger home for the spring.

3) Last question - ever try rooting directly in an E&F tray? I experimented with it a month or two ago and realized it could be done - got a clone to root in my flower tent @1200PPMs of nute strength in addition to the CO2 and 1K HPS.

Anyways, these are 36 clones I took a few days ago rooting in my top 2x4 tray in my veg tent in some hydroton, nothing more.

They're rooting in the 3.5" (8.75cm) pots that I'm going to try to flower them out in.

View attachment 655167

P.S. - just did a total rebuild of my veg tent and took out an interconnected bubbler (DWC) system (8 five gallon buckets) that I had and put in two separate 2x4 E&F tables stacked on top of each other.

They share a 50 gallon rez, I like it a lot.


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## doogleef (Dec 19, 2009)

Hey Al,

Happy to see you and to know that all is well with you down under.  It's always a pleasure to have you around for as long as your real life allows. I don't spend a whole lot of time on the forums anymore, instead hanging out in the IRC channel spreading the e/f word, but I always make it a point to read your posts. Don is very right in saying that literally thousands of users are dedicated fuctheads and owe you huge debt for saving them LOTS of money on special sauces and other garbage that is not needed for a steady, high yield, perpetual op. I just finished trimming this rounds batch of 0-veg clones and in 2 weeks I'll trim some more. With sticky fingers I salute you, sir! 

You still using the canna a+b?


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## dbo24242 (Dec 19, 2009)

so the .9x.9 flood table and the fittings cost me $120  a little more than expected and the store owner was talking about how cheap the tables had become 

hop over to my grow n check it out


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 19, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> You could make a stand out of 2x4s for about $4 - I'm as "un-handy" as they come and I made it - just be careful if you have height issues, I'm struggling at 7'.


 Yep, about 7' is bare min ceiling ht in a SoG/flood op.




> 1) Thinking of doing 144 plants in a 4x4 tent for my next grow (shooting for Feb. 1 start of 12/12) - any specific issues that you can think of / have heard of from someone trying to pack them in that tight?


 Yep, that's about double the tolerable density. You can get away with 4 per sq ft on the high & outside and that's with some pretty aggressive pruning of any branches that pop up. You'll want a sulfur 'burner' to keep powdery mildew at bay.



> Figure I'll flower at ~2-3" to get them to finish at about 10-12" - it's a 4x4 tent,


 I think they'll come up a lot taller than that under any decent HPS lighting, and you'll want to run a 1000 over a 4x4 tray. Plan on about 30" from the media tops.



> E&F, sealed (CO2 constant at 1500PPMs), 3.5" (8.75ish cm) square plastic pots filled with hydroton flooded once every two hours with lights on, once in the middle of lights off, 2.5EC, 67F, 5.8 pH, rooted in rapid rooters (organic tree bark, think "trendy jiffy pellets"), aircooled light, etc. Most likely will be doing Super Skunk.


 Sounds good. 



> Would prefer running 64, but there's a height restriction in my design setup (long story short, not worth me fixing before I move the equipment to a bigger tent (8x4, if not two, where I will be running 64 per 4x4 tray, perpetually).


 I think you'll run into trouble if you run much more than 64. Poor air circ may make powdery mildew a sure thing with double the max density. 


> 2) One more question, if you wouldn't mind - my RH stays right about 52-53%, even with a dehumidifier running 24/7 in the tent - any idea how detrimental that is to the plant's ability to increase respiration and therefore how unnecessary the CO2 enrichment is to the point that I take it?


 52-53% is ideal and plants will transpire at max rate. 



> Same issue as the height issues before - dehumidifier is "stuck" under the tray, where little no air flows - will be remedied when they move to a larger home for the spring.


 hmm.. may be worth putting a hole in the side of the tent near the top and sticking the nose of the dehumidifier through. Put the dehumidifier up on a stack of milk crates or sumpin. If it's under the tray, the flow restriction will indeed make it do very little where it needs to. It'll just work real hard on emptying your rez tank if below the tray.



> 3) Last question - ever try rooting directly in an E&F tray? I experimented with it a month or two ago and realized it could be done - got a clone to root in my flower tent @1200PPMs of nute strength in addition to the CO2 and 1K HPS.


 Cannabis will root readily with a number of different techniques. However, without a heat mat and really tight temp control, it'll be less reliable. 



> Anyways, these are 36 clones I took a few days ago rooting in my top 2x4 tray in my veg tent in some hydroton, nothing more.
> 
> They're rooting in the 3.5" (8.75cm) pots that I'm going to try to flower them out in.


 I hope it works out for you! 



doogleef said:


> Hey Al,
> 
> Happy to see you and to know that all is well with you down under.  It's always a pleasure to have you around for as long as your real life allows.


 Thanks same to you. 



> I don't spend a whole lot of time on the forums anymore, instead hanging out in the IRC channel spreading the e/f word, but I always make it a point to read your posts. Don is very right in saying that literally thousands of users are dedicated fuctheads and owe you huge debt for saving them LOTS of money on special sauces and other garbage that is not needed for a steady, high yield, perpetual op. I just finished trimming this rounds batch of 0-veg clones and in 2 weeks I'll trim some more. With sticky fingers I salute you, sir!


 *blush*  Thanks. 



> You still using the canna a+b?


 Yep, does the job. 



dbo24242 said:


> so the .9x.9 flood table and the fittings cost me $120  a little more than expected and the store owner was talking about how cheap the tables had become


sweet bloody jesus on a motorscooter... if he thinks that's _cheap_... I shudder to think what he _used _to ask for the feckin things. I'd shop around in other hydro shops & ck prices if'n I wuz yew.


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## Fman (Dec 19, 2009)

AL, I've been trying your 2 week system for about 18 months. I down sized it for 6 plants every 2 weeks. I dont get a harvest every 2 weeks YET, but what I do get is enough, so I no longer have to go to a corner clinic. See I dont take cuts every 2 weeks and my plants dont seem to grow as fast as yours , but I dont care. I am curious when you harvest do you look for amber trics, or do they get pulled in 8 weeks, no matter what? Thats one reason I dont harvest every 2 weeks, none of the strains are amber in 8 weeks. Most everything I've grown in the last year takes from 9 to 11 weeks to get amber trics. Id appreciate your input


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## FunInTheSunshine (Dec 19, 2009)

AL B, been following your treads for a year and a half now and want to thank you for some good sound advice. Always interesting to follow your threads and the peops who post on them THANX
I have a question for you. I posted a new tread in Grow room design and settup on a plan I have. Would you be so kind as to have a look at it and give me your oppinion. I don't want to ask the same shit here and confuse the whole discussion. Here is a link https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/284916-3-x-parralell-grow-plausable.html#post3549457


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## Bob Smith (Dec 19, 2009)

EDIT: can't figure out how to fix it, so Al's quotes are in a red font.

Yep, that's about double the tolerable density. You can get away with 4 per sq ft on the high & outside and that's with some pretty aggressive pruning of any branches that pop up. You'll want a sulfur 'burner' to keep powdery mildew at bay.

Dammit Al, that's the wrong answer 

Appreciate your input, but I still think I may try this fool's errand............you're going to be more then welcome to tell me "I told you so".

I think they'll come up a lot taller than that under any decent HPS lighting, and you'll want to run a 1000 over a 4x4 tray. Plan on about 30" from the media tops.

You think even flowering at 3" tall that they'll get that much larger? If so, another option is to throw my freshly cut clones directly into flower, so the stretch is almost nullified by the lack of roots for the first two weeks (tried that for this grow, and the 10" clones only grew about three or four more inches before "budding").

Sounds good.  

Very wasteful and over the top for a 4x4 tent, but it's my personality .

I think you'll run into trouble if you run much more than 64. Poor air circ may make powdery mildew a sure thing with double the max density. 
 
I'll keep an eye on it, and may try to get my dehumidifier in a better place to actually work in a reasonable manner.

52-53% is ideal and plants will transpire at max rate. 

That's exactly what I wanted to hear  So any lower recommended humidity during flowering is solely to keep mold (or "mould", as you call it ) at bay?

hmm.. may be worth putting a hole in the side of the tent near the top and sticking the nose of the dehumidifier through. Put the dehumidifier up on a stack of milk crates or sumpin. If it's under the tray, the flow restriction will indeed make it do very little where it needs to. It'll just work real hard on emptying your rez tank if below the tray.

That's exactly what the bugger does.

I hope it works out for you! 

Thanks my friend; as always, it's appreciated.

P.S. - here's some good old-fashioned American idiocy for you - got tired of lugging around 9kg bottles of CO2, so am rigging up a delivery service for a propane generator to deliver CO2 inside the tent from the outside.

And people wonder why the rest of the world thinks we're idiots.............

View attachment 656269View attachment 656270View attachment 656271View attachment 656272View attachment 656273


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 23, 2009)

Fman said:


> I am curious when you harvest do you look for amber trics, or do they get pulled in 8 weeks, no matter what?


I try to harvest spot on every 2 weeks due to the production-line nature of my op. If I hold up some plants at the end of the line, I can't put more in at the beginning. Stuffs up the entire process.



Bob Smith said:


> Dammit Al, that's the wrong answer
> 
> Appreciate your input, but I still think I may try this fool's errand............you're going to be more then welcome to tell me "I told you so".


Honestly, I think that with 8per sq ft, there's going to be problems, not just from powdery mildew, but I think your per plant yield and bud density will suffer due to adjacent plants blocking lighty. I think your overall yield will be better if you stick to 4 per sq ft.



> You think even flowering at 3" tall that they'll get that much larger?


Yeah, I do. 




> If so, another option is to throw my freshly cut clones directly into flower, so the stretch is almost nullified by the lack of roots for the first two weeks (tried that for this grow, and the 10" clones only grew about three or four more inches before "budding").


I chuck my clones in to flower as soon as they have a good spray of roots. They'll finish at about 30-35", whether 6" or 9" on cutting. 

You can expect plants to shift to flowering mode within 2 weeks and be fully flowering by the end of wk4.



> Very wasteful and over the top for a 4x4 tent, but it's my personality .


See, this is a common problem with new and new-ish growers. 'More' is not always better when growing dope, whether considering nute strength, watering frequency, plant density per sq ft, etc. There's a bell curve to this. Quite often, there's not enough, just right and too much. Too much usually reduces quality in addition to lowering yield. 



> I'll keep an eye on it, and may try to get my dehumidifier in a better place to actually work in a reasonable manner.




Yep, for the dehumidifier to be able to do the job, it has to be treating the airmass occupied by the plants. 




> 52-53% is ideal and plants will transpire at max rate.
> 
> That's exactly what I wanted to hear  So any lower recommended humidity during flowering is solely to keep mold (or "mould", as you call it ) at bay?


If you go too low, you may encourage spider mites. 




> P.S. - here's some good old-fashioned American idiocy for you - got tired of lugging around 9kg bottles of CO2, so am rigging up a delivery service for a propane generator to deliver CO2 inside the tent from the outside.
> 
> And people wonder why the rest of the world thinks we're idiots.............


A propane powered CO2 gen is all well and good in large grow spaces, where there's a lot of airmass into which to dissipate the heat a combustion CO2 gen makes. In small spaces, the heat from a combustion gen will trigger thermostatically controlled fans rather often, blowing your CO2 out of the op. If you have aircon, it will run a lot more often with a combustion type gen. 

Sorry, but especially in small cubic-foot ops, a tank/reg/application computer is preferred. Yes, tank based CO2 systems are more effort, perhaps more costly, but if you have aircon, the lower cost of running a combustion gen may be offset by increased cost of the aircon running more often. This cost may or may not be significant, it's hard to tell, given there's several variables based in how your op behaves. If you rely on thermostatically controlled exhaust fans to keep your temps down, the CO2 is getting blown out and doing you no good at all.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 23, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> See, this is a common problem with new and new-ish growers. 'More' is not always better when growing dope, whether considering nute strength, watering frequency, plant density per sq ft, etc. There's a bell curve to this. Quite often, there's not enough, just right and too much. Too much usually reduces quality in addition to lowering yield.
> 
> A propane powered CO2 gen is all well and good in large grow spaces, where there's a lot of airmass into which to dissipate the heat a combustion CO2 gen makes. In small spaces, the heat from a combustion gen will trigger thermostatically controlled fans rather often, blowing your CO2 out of the op. If you have aircon, it will run a lot more often with a combustion type gen.
> 
> Sorry, but especially in small cubic-foot ops, a tank/reg/application computer is preferred. Yes, tank based CO2 systems are more effort, perhaps more costly, but if you have aircon, the lower cost of running a combustion gen may be offset by increased cost of the aircon running more often. This cost may or may not be significant, it's hard to tell, given there's several variables based in how your op behaves. If you rely on thermostatically controlled exhaust fans to keep your temps down, the CO2 is getting blown out and doing you no good at all.


Al, I started growing about 12 years ago; just took a ten year break until a few months ago - realize this is more of a "fun" type harvest to do (to see if it can be done), but worst case if the crowding is too much, I can just start yanking plants out - no biggie 

And as far as the generator goes, yes, it is overkill for the current tent, but it's more to test out the concept and get it dialed in before upgrading to an 8x8 or 4x8 setup.

FYI, it works like a charm - tent doesn't get over 81.5F, and exhaust fans still never kick on (just the fan cooling my light).

No aircon in there, but it's wintertime here, and ambient garage temps (where the tent is) are ~60F.

Check out my link to my "new setup" to see the generator in action, if you'd like.


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 23, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Al, I started growing about 12 years ago; just took a ten year break until a few months ago - realize this is more of a "fun" type harvest to do (to see if it can be done), but worst case if the crowding is too much, I can just start yanking plants out - no biggie


OK. Mind you, I don't think you'll see the net result of crowding until it's too late. You might organise half of the area at 4/sf and half at 8/sf just to see the difference in real time. 



> And as far as the generator goes, yes, it is overkill for the current tent, but it's more to test out the concept and get it dialed in before upgrading to an 8x8 or 4x8 setup.


I don't think that your results will scale. I think that the combustion gen feeding small area will (come spring/summer in particular) vent so often that it will blow out the CO2. Might get away with it in winter, where the op is losing heat through the tent walls.



> FYI, it works like a charm - tent doesn't get over 81.5F, and exhaust fans still never kick on (just the fan cooling my light).


81.5F (27.5C) is a bit too warm. Keep the flowering area between 24-26C. You'll get some mainstem stretch if you get much above 26C. You may see stretchy or 'runny' buds as well. 

If the exhaust doesn't trigger excessively in the small tent when set for 26C, cool... but I bet it will.



> No aircon in there, but it's wintertime here, and ambient garage temps (where the tent is) are ~60F.


In the case of winter, the flowering area may lose enough heat to the garage airmass to keep temps in check. Come spring- the behaviour may well be different. Keep an eye on it. 


> Check out my link to my "new setup" to see the generator in action, if you'd like.


Will get a look as I have time. As for today, I've been on the computer waaaaay too long- need to get into my own op & get busy!


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## Sub Zero (Dec 25, 2009)

Damn, a nice guy that knows his stuff and willing to share. 
I'm damn glad to find you, and I sure wish you the best.
Looks like I have a hole lot of catching up so I too can become a fucthead... LOL!


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## NewGrowth (Dec 26, 2009)

Hey Al since we are on the CO2 topic, I wanted to ask your opinion on the best CO2 generator. Preferably the coolest running, is there none with variable solenoid valves to adjust the size of the flame? 

All my distributor carries is and Air-cooled GEN that I have not really heard good things about. The other one I was looking at is the Sentinel, it says variable but it only looks like I can turn off some of the burners. 

I was hoping someone would have designed a smart generator that would adjust the flame size using a "fuzzy logic" CO2 monitor and a solenoid valve . . . less heat and more consistent CO2 levels.

My space is way too big for tanks . . .

PS- Is it better to get a bigger gen that runs less often or a smaller one that runs more often?


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## purpdaddy (Dec 26, 2009)

Nice seein ya back AL...U R a true genious with this shit.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 28, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Hey Al since we are on the CO2 topic, I wanted to ask your opinion on the best CO2 generator. Preferably the coolest running, is there none with variable solenoid valves to adjust the size of the flame?
> 
> All my distributor carries is and Air-cooled GEN that I have not really heard good things about. The other one I was looking at is the Sentinel, it says variable but it only looks like I can turn off some of the burners.
> 
> ...


Check out the HydroGen water -cooled generator - they had some issues before, but they seem to be resolved.

I'm most likely going to have to get one for the summertime - supposedly removes 86% of the heat produced via water-cooling (I'm in no way vouching for it nor have I ever used it or seen it in action, just telling you what they claim).

Another good feature is that there's an adjustable flame to produce anywhere from 3-13 cubic feet an hour, which is kinda nice.

If you're interested, do a youtube search for it - with ~100 gallon reservoir, it seems like you wouldn't need a water chiller.

And as far as a "smart generator", pretty sure they're dumb as rocks, and if you want to get CO2 dialed in, you're gonna have to pay for an atmospheric controller - and as Al says, that gets "exxy".

P.S. - Al, my sisters are heading to New Zealand on New Year's day and will be flying into Sydney for a few days at the end of their trip.............any must-see places in Sydney they should know about?


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## NewGrowth (Dec 28, 2009)

Thanks Bob I've heard plenty of issues with the HydroGEN liquid cooled generator. The thing leaks like hell and one guy told me after they fixed the leaks his room was still too hot. You need a decent sized water chiller to run a set-up like that.


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## hhggff (Jan 5, 2010)

Al, first off, thanks for all the great information. I have a few questions about the nutrients you use. In this thread, you said you only use canna substra flores pars A & B in your tanks. In your past threads, you have mentioned you used other ingredients like epsom salt, canna liquid calcium, and PK 13-14. Are you still using these other ingredients or have you gone away from them? One last questions, how may flood cycles a day would you remommend if we are using perilite as our grow medium? Thanks again for your information.


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## kyky9 (Jan 7, 2010)

Hey al thanks for all the help! quick question for ya, i sadly nute burned my girlies pretty bad recently. The fan leaves are what got hit the most however the buds and most the leaves around them still look green and healthy. Anyways my question is, what steps should one take when dealing with nute burn? do you pick off everything burned? leave some? flush? when and how do i introduce nutes back? alot at first or less for recovery?!thanks Al!


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 8, 2010)

NewGrowth said:


> I was hoping someone would have designed a smart generator that would adjust the flame size using a "fuzzy logic" CO2 monitor and a solenoid valve . . . less heat and more consistent CO2 levels.
> 
> My space is way too big for tanks . . .
> 
> PS- Is it better to get a bigger gen that runs less often or a smaller one that runs more often?


 First of all, since I don't run CO2, I'm not the expert on this topic- beyond the cursory note that with a lot of cubic feet, a combustion-based CO2 gen definitely is the way to go. With the numbers of people on RIU & other cannabis boards, you're very likely to find someone else who knows a lot more about them than me. 

As far as whether to get a big un or a small un (or a couple of them), it doesn't make much difference. You're going to be combusting the same amount of fuel (probably LPG) to generate a certain amount of CO2 in either case. As long as the gen can make enough CO2 to bring and hold the concentration to 1500ppm, that's the right one. At that point, your choice is down to purchase price, cost of replacement parts as required and features, such as automatic concentration monitoring and control. 



purpdaddy said:


> Nice seein ya back AL...U R a true genious with this shit.


 Thanks for the compliment.  I tend to disagree on the genius part, tho. I honestly am not a warehouse of information. I'm OK at troubleshooting, but even so, I still have the occasional prob in my own op that has me scratching my noggin.



Bob Smith said:


> Check out the HydroGen water -cooled generator - they had some issues before, but they seem to be resolved.
> 
> I'm most likely going to have to get one for the summertime - supposedly removes 86% of the heat produced via water-cooling (I'm in no way vouching for it nor have I ever used it or seen it in action, just telling you what they claim).
> 
> ...


 See? Told you someone would come along that knows a lot more than I do about these. 


> And as far as a "smart generator", pretty sure they're dumb as rocks, and if you want to get CO2 dialed in, you're gonna have to pay for an atmospheric controller - and as Al says, that gets "exxy".


 Yep, that's the first thing that sprang to my mind about combustion type CO2 gens. CO2 monitoring gear, no matter what you are going to have it control, ain't even remotely cheap. 


> P.S. - Al, my sisters are heading to New Zealand on New Year's day and will be flying into Sydney for a few days at the end of their trip.............any must-see places in Sydney they should know about?


 Sorry, I may be too late for this. Bear in mind I can only pop in here for a couple of hours on every 2nd-3rd wkend or so- sorry. 

If you're in SYD for just a few days, the main touristy stuff would be the Harbour Bridge climb, Opera House, Koala Park, Sydney Aquarium at Darling Harbour, Manly and Bondi beaches, etc. 



hhggff said:


> Al, first off, thanks for all the great information.


no wucking furries. 



> I have a few questions about the nutrients you use. In this thread, you said you only use canna substra flores pars A & B in your tanks. In your past threads, you have mentioned you used other ingredients like epsom salt, canna liquid calcium, and PK 13-14. Are you still using these other ingredients or have you gone away from them?


No, I'm not using anything but Canna Vega & Flores and H2O2 these days. It's been a loooooong time since I was monkeying around with additives, but as I recall, I was chasing a problem that appeared as nute deficiencies. It certainly was nute deficiencies but not for want of nutes! The problem was caused by a faulty pH meter which was causing the actual pH to be faaaar away from 5.8, which caused nutrient lockout. 

Another change I've made is to reduce my nute strength in flowering quite a lot. I used to run at about 1400, but I find that 900ppm will do just fine. I don't bother with PK these days, but if I did, I'd use it in the wk5-6 (tray 3) tank, for 1 week only, and with no other nutes added to that tank. Just PK at about 500ppm, H2O2 and phDown to set the mix to 5.8.



> One last questions, how may flood cycles a day would you remommend if we are using perilite as our grow medium? Thanks again for your information.


Watering frequency is mainly dictated by the absorbency of the medium you use and the volume of your containers. Perlite isn't terribly absorbent (compared to stuff like rockwool) and has quite a lot of airspaces. In 175mm (roughly 3.5L volume) pots, you should be able to get by on 1 flood per lights-on, up to the end of wk4. If all's well, ypur plants will really be growing vigorously in wks4-6, so you might ramp it up to 2 floods/lights-on, at lights-on and again 6h later. The plants are mainly occupied with putting on bud mass in wks 6-8, so they won't have as great a water requirement- knock it back to 1x at lights-on. However, this all could vary depending on other factors in your op, like how often your exhaust fan runs, ambient temp (which should always be between 24-26C anyway), etc. These complicating factors will increase or decrease the evaporation from media, which will alter your system's watering requirements. 

The finger test is still the best way to tell if the media is damp enough. You should feel damp media 1" down from the media tops, just before the system waters again. If it's dry or if the pots 'feel light' before the system waters at lights-on, you may want to add another watering cycle in the middle of lights-on. 



kyky9 said:


> Hey al thanks for all the help! quick question for ya, i sadly nute burned my girlies pretty bad recently. The fan leaves are what got hit the most however the buds and most the leaves around them still look green and healthy. Anyways my question is, what steps should one take when dealing with nute burn? do you pick off everything burned? leave some? flush? when and how do i introduce nutes back? alot at first or less for recovery?!thanks Al!


The first thing to do is to leach all the nutes out of the media. Pour several litres of plain water (pH adjusted to 5. through each pot. Measure the EC of the runoff water. When you get it close to the ppm of your plain tapwater, you've run enough water through the pots. 

Your plants will have enough nutes stored to get them through at least 2 weeks. In your tanks, run plain water (pH adjusted to 5. with H2O2 50% grade at 1ml/L every 3-4 days. After 2 weeks, resume nutes at 900-1000ppm, pH 5.8 and H2O2 as previously mentioned. 

Bear in mind, these are plants, not V8 engines. 'More' is almost never better (with the sole exception of light). There's a bell-curve to growing plants. There's not enough, just right and _dead_. It's far better to shoot nute strength low and bump it up 10-20% if you see deficiencies than to have to try to recover badly nute fried plants. You lose more yield by nute burning than you'll lose by underfeeding.


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## Bob Smith (Jan 8, 2010)

Al, I'll pass that onto my sisters (they're in NZ for another few days before heading to AU on the 11th, so you were just in time ).

Thanks again, and I hope that all's well with you.

BTW, I know you've posted this before (and I know I've read it), but do you recall which thread you posted the amount of time that you spend on your op on a daily/weekly/monthly basis and your checklists for each?

Guessing it'd be the Every Two Weeks thread?


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## iloveit (Jan 8, 2010)

Hi Al, I having a silly problem which even some other growers are having but no-one knows for sure what the cause is. Id really appreciate your input bro.








All 3 plants were cut at the same time from the same mother & have been fed/watered at the same times so what is it that has stopped the one on the right from growing as tall as the other two?
This is the second time this has happened in my grow op.


I noticed some magnesium deficiencies signs on its leaves (pics below) so I added some epsom salts to the feed today hopefully itll be back on track.

















All 3 plants are currently on week 4 of flowering & todays solution mix was: 1ML GROW/3ML BLOOM/HALF TABLESPOON EPSOM SALTS TO 6 LITRES OF WATER (ALL BIOBIZZ NUTES & BIOBIZZ ALLMIX SOIL).
The clones were transplanted & put into flower as soon as they had rooted.


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 8, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Al, I'll pass that onto my sisters (they're in NZ for another few days before heading to AU on the 11th, so you were just in time ).


kewl. 


> BTW, I know you've posted this before (and I know I've read it), but do you recall which thread you posted the amount of time that you spend on your op on a daily/weekly/monthly basis and your checklists for each?
> 
> Guessing it'd be the Every Two Weeks thread?


wow, you remember more than I do. Fuct if I know where I wrote that! 

I can tell you off the cuff that I water clones 2x daily at 12h intervals, takes 5-10 mins. 

I only look in on the flowering and vegging areas every 2-3 days, also 5-10 mins for routine checks, just to make sure the watering systems haven't crapped out and to squirt about 125ml of 50% H2O2 into each of the 125L flowering tanks and 50ml into the 50L mother plant tank. 

Every 2 weeks, I get busy as hell for about 3 days. There's a harvest, which takes about 2x 12h days of nose to the grindstone manicuring. When I'm done manicuring, the clones which have set root get potted up and chucked in the flowering area, about an hour to pack 23 pots with rockwool & Fytocell. Then, I'll do a batch of 30 cuttings, about an hour or so. Last of the biweekly tasks is dumping tanks and mixing up new batches of sauce. 

Lather, rinse, repeat.


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## streetlegal (Jan 8, 2010)

Hi Al.. some saturday morning boredom huh
I was gonna ask if u were still using the fyto but u just answered that.. what dry weight are u averaging per plant now?

I have no idea where in OZ u can get ambient temps of 20-25 but sure wish i could live there, im guessing down south..

I built a stinkbud system, it aero/nft in pvc downpipe from bunnys, i started it up but my res temps would be around 28-30, i didnt want to risk any slime problems so i packed it away

So now im building ur show and i have co2 on the way so ill be running my room around 30deg.. ah will i have any slime problems in the res's u think Al?

It will either be fyto in pots or i might put lids on the tables and drill 3 inch holes for netpots and fill em with hydroton.. would u recco sticking with the fyto like u or no problems with the hydroton? wots ur best way of washing hyroton for re-use?

theres just so much conflicting info when it comes to slime growth and res temps, some say they run their res temps at 30deg with no slime problems and others say they wouldnt go over 20deg res temp bcos of the slime.

Editops, sry mate meant to say thanks!! bad manners


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 8, 2010)

iloveit said:


> All 3 plants were cut at the same time from the same mother & have been fed/watered at the same times so what is it that has stopped the one on the right from growing as tall as the other two?
> This is the second time this has happened in my grow op.
> 
> 
> ...


Since you're in soil, I can't really help you that much. I can't have any way of knowing the pH of your soil nor its nutrient content. However many ml of nutes per litre is also meaningless to me. I have no idea what the actual ppm strength of that mix may be. Moreover, since you're using soil AND organic nutrients, you can't use H2O2- it'll just break down instantly into H2O & O2 on contact with the organic matter in your soil and nutes. 

Organic is simply not the way to go when growing cannabis- it's not only a bit of a myth that organically grown weed is any different than that fed with 'inorganic' nutes, it makes an op a LOT harder to maintain. Root problems are very common in indoor cannabis cultivation, not in the least because growers (particularly new ones) often kill with kindness by overwatering (which I think may be part of the problem with the smallest plant). If you were using inorganic nutes and media, I'd have you hit the plants with some H2O2, but in soil with organic nutes, it'll do no good at all. I further suspect a pH problem in your soil. There's no way your nutrient deficiency symptoms are being caused by a lack of nutes; it's much more likely that the pH is off, causing a nutrient lockout. 

Bear in mind that your plant doesn't give two shits whether its nitrogen is coming from ammonium nitrate cooked up in a fertiliser factory or from the ultimate breakdown components of compost and fish emulsion, batshit, etc. 

Next grow, choose an inorganic medium and inorganic nutes. In the meantime, moderate your watering. Weigh a dry pot of your soil, then saturate it and allow to drain. Weigh again. Since water weighs 1g per ml, you now know precisely how much water a container of your soil will hold. Now, put the pot under your lights in your grow room. Weigh it a day later and see how much water has evaporated. When about 50-65% of the water weight it gone, it's time to water again- but not before. 

Wish I could do more for you, sorry. 



streetlegal said:


> what dry weight are u averaging per plant now?


Between .75 & 1z per, occasionally more. 



> So now im building ur show and i have co2 on the way so ill be running my room around 30deg.. ah will i have any slime problems in the res's u think Al?


Should be OK if you religiously treat the solns with H2O2, 50% grade @ 1ml/L every 3-4 days. 



> It will either be fyto in pots or i might put lids on the tables and drill 3 inch holes for netpots and fill em with hydroton..


No need to use netpots nor modify regular regular plastic pots with clay pellets. Water will enter & drain just fine via the drain holes in std pots. 



> would u recco sticking with the fyto like u or no problems with the hydroton?
> 
> wots ur best way of washing hyroton for re-use?


I prefer fresh, sterile media with each crop. Cleaning all the dead root matter off pellets is a royal pain in the ass- and it's got to be ALL gone or you risk transferring root disease into the next batch. Plus, pellets are heavy and difficult to dispose of. 



> theres just so much conflicting info when it comes to slime growth and res temps, some say they run their res temps at 30deg with no slime problems and others say they wouldnt go over 20deg res temp bcos of the slime.


H2O2 will deal with any pathogens in a rez. Of course, you'll be using inorganic nutes so you can use H2O2. High rez temps also tend to drive all the dissolved O2 out of the soln, which also will be addressed by frequent use of H2O2 as specified. You should also run air pumps & bubble curtains in each tank.


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## streetlegal (Jan 8, 2010)

so treated with h202 religiously rez's will be patho free at high temps!!
thanks man, good to get info that i can take without scepticism


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 9, 2010)

streetlegal said:


> so treated with h202 religiously rez's will be patho free at high temps!!


Yep, it'll work. H2O2 will keep your nute solns sterile and clear. It will also introduce O2 into the rootmasses, killing pathogens there at the same time. 


> thanks man, good to get info that i can take without scepticism


no wux, mite.


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## doogleef (Jan 9, 2010)

Nice dependable reliable chemicals. Rep+ Al. Again 

I can testify to the effectiveness of H2O2. I run a 55 gallon tank rez and addback nutes with my water on a very careful scale keeping ppms in check and i go a full month on a single rez before change. Using 35% H2O2 at 2ml/l every 3-4 days not only keeps pathogens out of my system allowing me much better PH control with very little effort, but when i do dump and rinse the bottom of my tank has no musky nasty smell. Chemical ferts and H2O2 all the way!


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## iloveit (Jan 9, 2010)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Since you're in soil, I can't really help you that much. I can't have any way of knowing the pH of your soil nor its nutrient content. However many ml of nutes per litre is also meaningless to me. I have no idea what the actual ppm strength of that mix may be. Moreover, since you're using soil AND organic nutrients, you can't use H2O2- it'll just break down instantly into H2O & O2 on contact with the organic matter in your soil and nutes.
> 
> Organic is simply not the way to go when growing cannabis- it's not only a bit of a myth that organically grown weed is any different than that fed with 'inorganic' nutes, it makes an op a LOT harder to maintain. Root problems are very common in indoor cannabis cultivation, not in the least because growers (particularly new ones) often kill with kindness by overwatering (which I think may be part of the problem with the smallest plant). If you were using inorganic nutes and media, I'd have you hit the plants with some H2O2, but in soil with organic nutes, it'll do no good at all. I further suspect a pH problem in your soil. There's no way your nutrient deficiency symptoms are being caused by a lack of nutes; it's much more likely that the pH is off, causing a nutrient lockout.
> 
> ...



Thanks Al, Ill try the pot weighing method first & take it from there.

I thought Id give organic a go & see what the fuss is about but now Im not convinced that it does anything special in anyway... I should neve had purchased those 5 litre nutes Im definitely going back to hydro.

Your a great help Al thank you.


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 9, 2010)

doogleef said:


> Nice dependable reliable chemicals. Rep+ Al. Again


Better living through chemistry. 



> I can testify to the effectiveness of H2O2. I run a 55 gallon tank rez and addback nutes with my water on a very careful scale keeping ppms in check and i go a full month on a single rez before change.


However, I have to advise against this method. 

Your nute meter tells you about the electrical conductivity (EC) of a solution based upon _total_ dissolved salts/solids (TDS). It can't tell you how much N, P or K individually exist in the solution. 

If you run a tank of nutes for a while, your plants will eat a certain amount of each nutrient- but they won't eat the _same amount_ of each. Let's propose that the nute maker intends a mixed tank of nutes at the correct strength, say 1000ppm, to be NPK 10-15-10. Over a certain period of time, let's say 2 weeks, the plants will consume (for discussion's sake) 60% of the N, 50% of the P and 80% of the K. The ratio is then 4-7.5-2. 

If you add nutrient concentrate to this partially eaten tank to return the EC to 1000ppm, you're not going to wind up with 10-15-10. Your EC/TDS meter will tell you that your solution has the right 1000ppm conductivity, but the actual NPK ratios are completely unknown to you.

If you had a meter that could identify the individual amounts of N, P & K remaining in the nute soln AND you had individual jugs of liquid N, P & K, you _could _feasibly correct the remnant nute solution back to 10-15-10 at 1000ppm- but you have neither (unless the meter you're using happens to be a several-hundred thousand dollar lab standard mass spectrometer, which IS capable of identifying and quantifying individual elements dissolved in a solution).

Given the best tool we have in a common hydro op for measuring nute strength is a TDS meter, the best way to manage nute solns is to run them for about 2 weeks, dump and mix completely new sauce. 

If you provide about 5L of rez tank volume per plant, the EC of the soln (in ppm) will remain fairly constant, even as the level of the soln drops (from both evaporation and plants' water usage).


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## Sub Zero (Jan 9, 2010)

I'm draining cleaning and replacing the nutrients right now every 2 weeks, just taking a med break...
Will go with chemicals and H2O2 after my supplies run out.
Is it okay to switch from organics to chemicals in the middle of a grow?


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 9, 2010)

iloveit said:


> Thanks Al, Ill try the pot weighing method first & take it from there.


If overwatering is a problem for you (and I think it may be), watering by weight will help sort it out. 



> I thought Id give organic a go & see what the fuss is about but now Im not convinced that it does anything special in anyway...


This is where being a skeptic and applying critical thinking is important... mainly because... 



> I should neve had purchased those 5 litre nutes Im definitely going back to hydro.


...it'll save you a lot of money!

One very important concept: *Preponderance isn't proof.* A billion ppl can believe something and whack it on a website- and still be wrong. The whole notion of organic growing of cannabis (and vegetables for that matter) is one of those things that a lot of folks subscribe to, don't understand the science, yet swear up & down that it's better... PLACEBO EFFECT, folks! 



Sub Zero said:


> I'm draining cleaning and replacing the nutrients right now every 2 weeks, just taking a med break...
> Will go with chemicals and H2O2 after my supplies run out.
> Is it okay to switch from organics to chemicals in the middle of a grow?


In terms of feeding the plants, there's no problem with switching to inorganic aka 'chemical' nutes. 

However, residual organic matter from organic nutes may remain in your rootmasses, which will reduce the effectiveness of H2O2. 

Bears mentioning one more time that what the plants are actually eating is N, P & K. Whether the source of your N, P &K is the breakdown components of organic matter or from elemental components, the net result is the same- except that with organic nutes, you really don't know what the actual nute strength which the roots are seeing actually is! With 'chemical' nutes- you know what's going on with some good level of certainty.


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## NewGrowth (Jan 9, 2010)

Thanks Al! Great info, I've had the same experience with trying out organics recently. I just can't get the same consistent yield and quality of product with organics. There are some good organic products out there though, Foxfarm's soil line is hands down the best soil I've ever used. I keep all my mothers in Happy Frog soil now and water with, guano tea. The cuts seem to root much faster when the mother is in the Happy Frog potting mix as compared to my hydro mothers. I also like the simplicity of it,most of the time I just plain water.

As far as production, quality, and yield in flower I still have yet to see something that beats inorganic hydroponics. Also that old wives tale about organic pot tasting better is a bunch of crap IMHO. I've grow hydroponic bud that is on par with the best organic bud, and I was able to flush mine faster and harvest faster.


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## Stoney McFried (Jan 9, 2010)

This is a large thread, so if this was asked before, 1000 apologies.  Al,how do YOU prefer to store seeds for the long term?


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## streetlegal (Jan 9, 2010)

Al, howdy.. any idea what this is?
I have mothers in coco of various strains and ages up to 2 months old using canna coco a+b,
It was mainly on the bigger older fan leaves but now its affecting most except new smaller fan leaves
Its basically blotchy rusting BETWEEN the leaf veins, not quiet as concentrated as the pic (the pic isnt mine) but its really basically the same..
i foliar sprayed with epsom salt about a week ago but it seems to be getting worse.. its not affecting all the plants and one worse then others, thanks moyt


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## Sub Zero (Jan 9, 2010)

Al B. Fuct said:


> In terms of feeding the plants, there's no problem with switching to inorganic aka 'chemical' nutes.
> 
> However, residual organic matter from organic nutes may remain in your rootmasses, which will reduce the effectiveness of H2O2.
> 
> Bears mentioning one more time that what the plants are actually eating is N, P & K. Whether the source of your N, P &K is the breakdown components of organic matter or from elemental components, the net result is the same- except that with organic nutes, you really don't know what the actual nute strength which the roots are seeing actually is! With 'chemical' nutes- you know what's going on with some good level of certainty.


Thanks Al, I'll just finish what I have going and start fresh with the next grow...


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## GypsyBush (Jan 9, 2010)

Hi Al.. 

Just wanted to stop by and say hello...

Happy New Year!!! 

Keep it Fuct!!!


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 9, 2010)

NewGrowth said:


> Thanks Al! Great info, I've had the same experience with trying out organics recently. I just can't get the same consistent yield and quality of product with organics.


 Yep, that consistency would be down to the ability to control pathogens at will with H2O2 (as well as introduce O2 in the rootmass) and the highly predictable (and measurable) nature of the available nutrient strength with inorganic nutes.



Stoney McFried said:


> This is a large thread, so if this was asked before, 1000 apologies.  Al,how do YOU prefer to store seeds for the long term?


 A dark, dry, cool (10-23C) place. A household fridge isn't ideal because they run at about 5C, where moisture in the air around the beans can condense on the inside of the container.



streetlegal said:


> Al, howdy.. any idea what this is?


It presents as a Mg deficiency, but if you've fed the plant with any decent fertiliser, it won't be due to absence of Mg. 

I'd guess the pH has been shot low, causing a Mg lockout.


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 9, 2010)

Sub Zero said:


> Thanks Al, I'll just finish what I have going and start fresh with the next grow...


That's what I'd do. 



GypsyBush said:


> Hi Al..
> 
> Just wanted to stop by and say hello...
> 
> ...


Heh, good to see you Geeb- & HNY to you too.


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## streetlegal (Jan 9, 2010)

Thanks Al, ill up the pH on the next water..

ah if u charged for ur info Al u wouldnt need to grow anymore..
off to bed, nite.
Edit: I just calibrated my pH pen, it came up 7.3, .3 over.. i have been lockin out mg without a doubt! thanks for telling ME about it Al, thumbs up.


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## DarkCursade (Jan 9, 2010)

Al B. Fuct said:


> One very important concept: *Preponderance isn't proof.* A billion ppl can believe something and whack it on a website- and still be wrong. The whole notion of organic growing of cannabis (and vegetables for that matter) is one of those things that a lot of folks subscribe to, don't understand the science, yet swear up & down that it's better... PLACEBO EFFECT, folks!


Okay this is SOOO true man, here is my cry for the day!!!

When I first started out growing cherries!!! I came and I read an old school book, pages of info on the web, and to be honest... Most of it was just b/s besides some of the basic simple facts ie:

-plants need water
-plants need light
-plants need food
-plants need a safe growing environment 

Everything else is just facts that have been put in place to help promote more of an ideal growing conditions too of course promote better Cherries or whatever kind of fruit you may be growing.

Then you have IDEA'S which have been told by 1 person to the nexted, then some great spark puts that idea in a book or better still youtube, only for newbie growers to read/see, to then put into practice.

I only ever take note from people who grow and can back it up with good results!!!

Here are some well be known facts that have found to be untrue in my own experience!!!

1. IMO 1x1000w is so much better than a 2x600w

you know the light of a 1000w is intense cause it burns your eyes when starring at the bulb which i like to do, 600w light = no eye burn!!!!....you would have to compare them in 2 tents of exact size to see the difference OMG!!!

2. I have read/and was told by my local hydro store the heat from a 1000w is heaps more than 600w "WTF maybe in a small wardrobe or suit case", but when running 2x600ws theres heaps more heat when you include the ballasts.... LOOK IM JUST ANGRY CAUSE I PAID 4 two 600ws when should have got 2x1000W

These are compared when using cooltubes!!!

3. IMO Also there is no such thing as root bound, I have a flowering cherry plant in a pot about 1 foot tall, and the plant is 5 foot tall, I have also started seeds out in white plastic cups and grown them about 40-50cms high with no signs of growth stopping!!! Also check this https://www.rollitup.org/outdoor-growing/24703-its-all-bullsh-t-14.html as further proof!!!

4. Never believe a hooker if she tells you shes clean, shes not!!! she is lying, dont make my same mistake....



NO but seriously Im very cut about spending the money on the 600ws!!!


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## doogleef (Jan 9, 2010)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Better living through chemistry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yea, as my water level drops my ppm stays nice and flat at about 1000 @.5 . I've had pretty good luck with it but the blend has to be right and the uptake on the system has to be really healthy. If you're not adding back at least 75% of the water volume when doing this then there is too much of the original soup with its inherent imbalance in the new mix. 

Generally every couple weeks i addback 35 gallons of water and the compliment of nutes and let it ride 2 more weeks.  

I also run perpetual (inspired by U  ) so on my 24 site flooding bucket system I run 4 stages of flowersing growth all on the same rez. 

Crazy, huh?


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## Bob Smith (Jan 10, 2010)

Al B. Fuct said:


> kewl.
> 
> 
> wow, you remember more than I do. Fuct if I know where I wrote that!
> ...


Thank you greatly, kind sir 

Just a quick point to clarify - so you only check your vegging/flowering plants every 2-3 days, for 10-15 minutes? 

Or you do 10-15 minutes a day, and every 2-3 days you spend more time in there?

Just trying to plan out my time in case I'll be expanding..........I generally spend about 3-5 minutes a day just to check that everything's running okay and take pH and TDS readings, and was wondering how that compared.


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 10, 2010)

streetlegal said:


> Edit: I just calibrated my pH pen, it came up 7.3, .3 over.. i have been lockin out mg without a doubt!


 Yep, that would have put your actual pH at 5.5 if you were shooting for 5.8. You've found the cause of your stunted growth, for sure. 



DarkCursade said:


> LOOK IM JUST ANGRY CAUSE I PAID 4 two 600ws when should have got 2x1000W
> 
> These are compared when using cooltubes!!!


 I'd be cheesed, too. Cooltubes allow a 1000 to be placed as close as a 600 and they also dump all the lamp heat outside the room. 

Ballasts should always be outside the room airspace, unless you need the heat in the room over winter. However, the extra expense of running 4x600 vs 2x1000 due to ballast losses is something you won't be able to escape.



> 3. IMO Also there is no such thing as root bound


 Not so. It's true that the rootmass of plants which are introduced as just-rooted clones to the flowering area will rarely fully fill a 175mm dia pot by the end of wk8, but mother plants, kept too long (more than abt 12 wks), definitely _*will*_ get rootbound- and it can kill the plant in worst cases, as an excessively tightly packed rootmass will restrict nute soln circ throughout the mass. 



doogleef said:


> Yea, as my water level drops my ppm stays nice and flat at about 1000 @.5 .


EC will stay flat as the water level drops if there's sufficient rez tank volume for the number of plants you're running. 5L/plant works well. 



> I've had pretty good luck with it but the blend has to be right and the uptake on the system has to be really healthy. If you're not adding back at least 75% of the water volume when doing this then there is too much of the original soup with its inherent imbalance in the new mix.


I'd still disadvise against this method. You're not saving any money by keeping 1/4 tank of old sauce and you're not getting the NPK ratio that the nute maker intends. Dump it all, clean the tanks as needed and start fresh every 2 wks.No guesswork. 



> I also run perpetual (inspired by U  ) so on my 24 site flooding bucket system I run 4 stages of flowersing growth all on the same rez.


Yep, you can run all plants on a single tank, but in tray-based flood systems, 4 separate tanks fit under the trays, saving floorspace. Also, with 4 pumps, you're spreading out the potential damage caused by failure of a pump. Pretty unlikely that all 4 would croak at once, but cheap centrifugal water pumps do fail fairly regularly. They die after about 12-18mos, sometimes sooner. 



Bob Smith said:


> Thank you greatly, kind sir


no wucking furries. 



> Just a quick point to clarify - so you only check your vegging/flowering plants every 2-3 days, for 10-15 minutes?
> 
> Or you do 10-15 minutes a day, and every 2-3 days you spend more time in there?


The former. 

You guys think I'm kidding when I say I'm a stoned slacker. I seriously don't like to work and the noobie enthusiasm for running a grow op wore off of me yeeeeears ago. When I was new at it, I'd check in a few times a day! Madness.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 10, 2010)

Glad to have you around Al. We need the wisdom. +rep


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## DarkCursade (Jan 10, 2010)

Hey Al B, Just wondering what your thoughts are on a res tank, Im finding it runs for a about a week, then its only 1/4 full...

160L tank filling a 1100mmx1100mm I flood once a day sometimes twice.

I live in Qld, its berry, berry hot here on most days...

Anyways I lose alot of water through evaporation I think, do you think I should just top up with water, or do you think I should just make a new batch every week like I have been, its just that Im going threw the nutes fast, even though I always use the minimum amount its says on the canna bottle 2.5ml-3.5ml per Litre, Id use 2.5ml. 

Also I started to use an A/C however its costs shit loads to run even at 15 mins per hour, and I noticed it sent my RH threw the roof reaching 91%, when I dont use my A/C Im finding that my room reach temp 35 deg and RH no higher than 67, am I going to have to get a dehumidifier instead? Im just trying to cut back on power usage, Im mega scared of using too much power????

Also you got any thoughts on how much is too much power to use, I got a 6 bedroom house and a fluffy dog?

In regards to the root bound comment I made, I am wonder how I am to grow such tall big plants In small pots, when will these flowering plants be root bound how am I to tell they are in week4 in flowering? I put the coke cans & 2L cokes in there for size reference damm I like coke yummy...

I like many people am trying to replicate something like your op, but I like to try new stuff/different stuff "Im like that cat that died from curiosity" here is 3 of my cherry plant, normally I only have flowering plants 50cm tall. Plenty of popcorn cherries here?


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 10, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Glad to have you around Al. We need the wisdom. +rep


Thanks. 



DarkCursade said:


> Hey Al B, Just wondering what your thoughts are on a res tank, Im finding it runs for a about a week, then its only 1/4 full...
> 
> 160L tank filling a 1100mmx1100mm I flood once a day sometimes twice.


How many plants are you running? You should have enough rez capacity to provide 5L per plant. 



> I live in Qld, its berry, berry hot here on most days...
> 
> Anyways I lose alot of water through evaporation I think, do you think I should just top up with water, or do you think I should just make a new batch every week like I have been, its just that Im going threw the nutes fast, even though I always use the minimum amount its says on the canna bottle 2.5ml-3.5ml per Litre, Id use 2.5ml.
> 
> Also I started to use an A/C however its costs shit loads to run even at 15 mins per hour, and I noticed it sent my RH threw the roof reaching 91%, when I dont use my A/C Im finding that my room reach temp 35 deg and RH no higher than 67, am I going to have to get a dehumidifier instead? Im just trying to cut back on power usage, Im mega scared of using too much power????


Yep, you can expect a lot of evaporation at the temps you're talking about- got to get the temps down to 26C, 27 on the high and outside- but not for the sake of reducing evaporation. At 30C, the plants will bolt (stretch). The internodal spaces will be huge- much like the pic you show. You'll also get thin, weedy buds. 

Running the aircon unit 15min/hr (on a timer?) just won't work. Your temps will spike and so will RH when the aircon is off for the other 45min/hr. It has to rely on thermostatic control. 

Instead of running aircon, run your lights at night and provide enough ventilation so that your room air temps are within a degree C or two of the intake air temp. 



> Also you got any thoughts on how much is too much power to use, I got a 6 bedroom house and a fluffy dog?


I run 2x1000HPS 12/12 for flowering and 1x400HPS 24/0 for mums, also about 150W worth of fluoros in the clonebox, no aircon. Never had any problems with that level of power usage. 



> In regards to the root bound comment I made, I am wonder how I am to grow such tall big plants In small pots, when will these flowering plants be root bound how am I to tell they are in week4 in flowering?


 If you are running a SoG op, where clones are put in to flower immediately after they set root (with no vegging, before flowering aside from the 18+h/day fluoro light they should be getting while they are setting root), with decent HPS lighting (about 50W/sq ft of HPS for flowering) they should finish up at about 1m tall (from the media tops). They should be at or very close to their finishing height in wk4 of flowering. 



> I like many people am trying to replicate something like your op, but I like to try new stuff/different stuff "Im like that cat that died from curiosity"


Bit of advice- don't try 'new stuff.' Find a competent grower on this or another pot board and copy their op _*to the letter.*_ Tried and true will get you good results- and that's what you're after, not re-inventing the wheel. 



> here is 3 of my cherry plant, normally I only have flowering plants 50cm tall. Plenty of popcorn cherries here?


Your plants are suffering stretch from excessively high temps. The internodal spaces are huge, 3-4x what they should be. If you keep going the way you are, your buds will be thin and weedy, too. 

You have to get your air temps down. The most cost effective way to do this is to move more air though the op. Get your intake air from outdoors if possible and dump the exhaust somewhere where it cannot be readily redrawn into the op. If the temp of the air you have available to draw in is higher than 26-27C, aircon is your only alternative. If you have a grunty enough aircon unit, it'll bring the air temps down to 24-26C and the RH should be no higher than about 50-60%. 

aaaaaaaaaand with that, I'm outta here for a couple of weeks. Got to get back to my reg'lar work.


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## Bob Smith (Jan 11, 2010)

Al B. Fuct said:


> aaaaaaaaaand with that, I'm outta here for a couple of weeks. Got to get back to my reg'lar work.


Thanks for taking the time, good sir - hope your 2010 works out well for you in the interim.


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 11, 2010)

oh- one quick note for *DarkCursade*; your op will tolerate higher than 26C (up to abt 30C) without problems if you run CO2 @ 1500ppm. However, the setup for a proper CO2 application system is EFFING exxy, between the tank rental, refills and a proper controller- couple thou to set it up, anyway. 

As said previously, the cheapest way to address the problem is to increase the ventilation airflow thru the op. 

Cooltubes on the lamps, on a closed air circuit (draws lamp cooling air from outside the op and also dumps it outside, independent of the ventilation system), will get the vast majority of the heat from the lamps out of the room before it has a chance to warm up the air in contact with the plants.

NOW I'm back to the grind...


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## nordowell (Jan 11, 2010)

hey al you still running the sweet tooth #4? spice of life no longer stocks that, but they have something callled donk and i was wondering if youve heard of it? im looking for a max yield with at least decent quality to run in your style op. your suggestion would be much appreciated.


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## pickleman (Jan 11, 2010)

sweet i got some reading to do


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## Sub Zero (Jan 11, 2010)

" 
aaaaaaaaaand with that, I'm outta here for a couple of weeks. Got to get back to my reg'lar work."

Life is all about the work we must do, it sucks at times but hey, it's better then being homeless...


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## DarkCursade (Jan 11, 2010)

Hey Alb,
thanks for all those pointers, I pretty much take what u say as gospel so dont start B/S me otherwise Ill really get confused 
Im trying to copying your grow to the letter, however Im trying some stuff as side project, after all clones are practically free, and I got a bit of space... The rest of my flowering plants are only 50cm tall as I have had not much material to work with, my clones go straight into flowering, I have read your get a harvest every 2 weeks thread, I understand everything you say, its only about 5 pages long if you skip all the noob questions.
okay I know you have said you dont want to set up anyones grow op for them, but I would really appreciate any more help you can give me to help me battle my heat issue Im going to layout it all out for you so you can advise me on my heat issue.
My Gear:
4 x trays
1 x 1000w hps
2 x 600w hps
3 x cool tubes
will be getting avenger wings in the future
2 x 1.5Wx3Lx2H mylar tents," wishing I didnt buy these as they are hard to move in as my room is cramped" 
Allvent inline Duct fan 250mm
Allvent inline Duct fan 200mm
Allvent inline Duct fan 150mm "I use this on the 2x600w"
2 x Westaflex centrifugal inline fan 200mm claims 200L/sec
Here is my "Auto Cad drawing to scale"  
The room on the right I want to ditched the tents and it just be just a flower room, I hate the thought of Light leaks. And I was thinking about using 1 of the tents in the room on the left as my veg room, plus I got the clones already set up in that room in the wardrobe. The room on the right has been wired and can handle 20 amps, the room on the left unsure, but I have ran in the past 2x600ws there no problems.
The both exhausts are connected to the cooltubes and have ducting up threw the ceiling roof. 
My temp inside the tent is 35c deg, and outside the room air temp is 29c
When both the exhaust fans are running, I feel pressure trying to close the room door, I think thats called negative pressure. And If I stand inside the room with the door shut I can feel the air being drawn in under the door on my feet. Im was unsure if its better to keep the door open or closed for this purpose?
Id dont mind spending the cash on more gear if I need it, but my local hydro shop, are cunts, they literally say anything and everything just to get a sale. Also there advise to me was to stay away from cooltubes as they dont do much for heat, need I say anymore about them!!!!

I want to end up running 1x600w for veg, and 2x1000 for flowering.

Any more advice you could throw my way in regards to heat would be great, also Id rather stay away from CO2.
Thanks Mate for all your help...


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 11, 2010)

nordowell said:


> hey al you still running the sweet tooth #4? spice of life no longer stocks that, but they have something callled donk and i was wondering if youve heard of it? im looking for a max yield with at least decent quality to run in your style op. your suggestion would be much appreciated.


Yup, still propagating ST4 that I sprouted in 2002. I understand Blockhead is very close to ST#4. Donk looks very pretty, I'd like to have that one. I'm in the market for beans soon; would like to diversify a bit. I'd esp like to find some in Australia, getting beans across the int'l border is grief ridden these days. SoL Seeds have served me very well over the years. Any indica dominant strain will work well in a SoG op. 



Sub Zero said:


> Life is all about the work we must do, it sucks at times but hey, it's better then being homeless...


The grow op still pays most of my bills. I do the writing gig because... um... because.... well, hell, I'll let you know why when I work it out.


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## Sub Zero (Jan 11, 2010)

You can't seem to stay away... LOL, I hope you figure it out... LOL


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## Sub Zero (Jan 11, 2010)

By chance, do you know David and Lyn Raats? They would have nothing to do with what we do and like, quite square if you know what I mean?
They are are from Straya, Bet Bet area, I bought and sold gold with them for a couple of years... Just wondering...


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 11, 2010)

nope, I don't. Mind, the q you have asked is that same as saying to an Angelino, 'Oh, you're from LA, do you know Bernie Schwartz?'


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## don2009 (Jan 12, 2010)

lol dame al I thought you be gone I love to hear what you got to say its just so profound and hood at the same time I wish you were on here all the time. I just thought of something let's pay you a dollar for each ? cuz you are worth it, just to keep you around I bet that will stop you from working,(with all the fans you have) and you seem like one of THEM when you say you got to leave us for a while All our hopes just goes down for growing n everything else when you say that. You should see everybody threads always talking bout you. (Your our star) Hey why dont you put together some lectures for your followers and really be a thread to the world cuz you really shine bro, i know we will love to see you in person and vibe with you. Yeah lectures to grow should be your job fuck the bullshit travel to any state or country and we will pay they will pay to see you. From reading your threads you say "nah man im no one everyone know this or can do it" But not the way you do or teach us I really think you can be a greater person I know if you say your doing a lecture somewhere in USA or amsterdame I will pay to hear you, and all your other fans will love that, come on godfather of RIU. I feel like i'm talking to someone famous right now it's crazy to me. I wrote you a few weeks ago, and you respond back like you do to everyone it just made me more eager to be as cool as you. I dont think you understand your power. Our star AL B. FUCT


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## Sub Zero (Jan 12, 2010)

WHO'S Bernie Schwartz??? I guess I could Google that!


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## DarkCursade (Jan 12, 2010)

I forgot to mention, I have 9 foot ceilingsss


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 12, 2010)

don2009 said:


> I wrote you a few weeks ago, and you respond back like you do to everyone it just made me more eager to be as cool as you. I dont think you understand your power. Our star AL B. FUCT


 Don, thanks so much for your kind compliments. However, I fear you praise me a bit too much. I'm just a stoned slacker growing dope and helping others learn from where I've fucked it up, which I do remarkably often. 



Sub Zero said:


> WHO'S Bernie Schwartz??? I guess I could Google that!


Just a random name. The point is that there's 20 million ppl in Australia, as there are in LA- and an Angelino is as likely to know all of them as I am to know the folx you asked me about. 



DarkCursade said:


> I forgot to mention, I have 9 foot ceilingsss


Doesn't matter. Tall plants are not the friend of the indoor grower. SoG is a method that was developed mainly to cope with the limitations of artificial lighting. Even the mighty 1000HPS can only penetrate foliage so deeply. By flowering clones as soon as they set root, SoG keeps plants short, which puts all the foliar mass in the most usable part of artificial light.


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## DarkCursade (Jan 13, 2010)

No I meant that I have 9 foot ceilings in regards to my heat problem. Im unsure if you have seen my previous post and or its just a nightmare to answer, I know tall plants sux, I cant wait till I can chop them down they are taking up 2 much space, I normally only cut small clones, then straight into flowering ending up about 50-70cm tall. These 3 plants were an exception though.


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 13, 2010)

DarkCursade said:


> No I meant that I have 9 foot ceilings in regards to my heat problem. Im unsure if you have seen my previous post and or its just a nightmare to answer, I know tall plants sux, I cant wait till I can chop them down they are taking up 2 much space, I normally only cut small clones, then straight into flowering ending up about 50-70cm tall. These 3 plants were an exception though.


I thought I had answered your previous post. Have I missed it?

Your tall plants are likely being caused by excessively high air temps. The high ceiling will help to some degree in keeping warm air away from your plants, but if you have oscillating circ fans going in the space, as well you should, the warm air up high is going to be circulated around the space anyway.


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## greengenius (Jan 13, 2010)

Hey Al. First off, Thank you. 

This is the first hydro op I've ever put together. I didn't order the parts but after taking inventory, I realized that everything I had was almost identical to your setup. I set up the plumbing ventilation spacing and even switched to fytocell (after having inconsistent results with rockwool) using your thread as a blueprint. The subtle differences turned into individual problems which were solved by committing fully to your methods. I'm a happy grower thanks to you.

Now, of course, I have some questions if you don't mind.

Some plants are really healthy. Others were stunted and remained that way for one reason or another. All recieved same treatment. Can you tell me how to prevent this?


Since I'm growing sativas and i'm new to sog, the pruning has been very confusing. Would you have pruned this plant the same way?

*week 2* 


*week 4*


*week 7*


And finally, I came accross this bubba strain that's blowing my mind. The plant grows in a straight line with not a lot of nodes and very short branching. The smoke is amazing but the plant doesn't seem to like sog... 

would topping the mother and cloning the mainstem with the 2 tops work create a better yield? The plant grows in a straight line with a little number of nodes spaced out and very short branching. An 8" clone is finishing barely at a foot tall. But the bud looks too good to pass up.


*Once again, you've been a huge inspiration, and I appreciate any help you provide.*


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 14, 2010)

greengenius said:


> Hey Al. First off, Thank you.
> 
> This is the first hydro op I've ever put together. I didn't order the parts but after taking inventory, I realized that everything I had was almost identical to your setup. I set up the plumbing ventilation spacing and even switched to fytocell (after having inconsistent results with rockwool) using your thread as a blueprint. The subtle differences turned into individual problems which were solved by committing fully to your methods. I'm a happy grower thanks to you.


Thanks very much for the compliments. Glad it's working for you. 


> Now, of course, I have some questions if you don't mind.
> 
> Some plants are really healthy. Others were stunted and remained that way for one reason or another. All recieved same treatment. Can you tell me how to prevent this?


The stunted plant is exhibiting a fault called 'rosetting,' making small leaves and little vertical growth, caused by root probs. Root disease often follows overwatering, either while still in the clonebox or later in the flowering area. Fytocell can be overwatered, but it's not easy. If you're watering 1x/lights on, water every other day at lights on. Apply H2O2 50% grade @ 1ml/L in the nute solns every 3-4 days. Dump tanks, clean and renew nute solns biweekly. 



> Since I'm growing sativas and i'm new to sog, the pruning has been very confusing. Would you have pruned this plant the same way?


Yep, looks great, nice work.  All you need do is remove the branching on the lower 1/3 of the plant, once at the end of wk1 and again at the end of wk3. 



> And finally, I came accross this bubba strain that's blowing my mind. The plant grows in a straight line with not a lot of nodes and very short branching. The smoke is amazing but the plant doesn't seem to like sog...


Indica dom hybrids generally work better in SoG as they have a more squat habit. Purer sativas tend to get leggy, not the best for keeping the bulk of the foliar mass in the highest intensity light. 



> would topping the mother and cloning the mainstem with the 2 tops work create a better yield? The plant grows in a straight line with a little number of nodes spaced out and very short branching. An 8" clone is finishing barely at a foot tall. But the bud looks too good to pass up.


You should be taking your clones from the fattest stems you can get off your mums. As you take cuttings from mums, their growth will divide and they will produce several >10mm stems for cuttings every 2 weeks, provided they're being hit with some strong light. I use a 400HPS on my 10 mums, but a 250 HPS or 175MH would do for 6-8. When doing a batch of cuttings, nip off any very small branches from the mums, encourage the stronger branches to grow to make some nice fat stems for the next batch of cuts. 


> Once again, you've been a huge inspiration, and I appreciate any help you provide.


no wuckin' furries, mate. 

Keep up the nice work.


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## onthedl0008 (Jan 14, 2010)

Hey AL.. Just wanted to say thanks for all the knowledge and grow ideas ive gained by ur threads man.


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 14, 2010)

onthedl0008 said:


> Hey AL.. Just wanted to say thanks for all the knowledge and grow ideas ive gained by ur threads man.


You're most welcome. Keep at it.


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## Bob Smith (Jan 14, 2010)

Hey Al, as long as you're still popping your head in, what are your thoughts on these:

http://www.amhydro.com/index.php/Do-It-Yourself-Components/199-3-x-3-Net-Well-Insert/flypage.tpl.html

For my next setup, basically copying your grow - 4 3x3 tables, two 1K lights (although the DIY cooltube/Adjust-a-Wing thing isn't for me, so I'm gonna get some Magnum XXXL reflectors, which are 30x38, so about the same - they're also air-cooled, obviously).

Just wondering if you saw anything inherently flawed about using those inserts - because I use (and reuse, so the less I use, the easier to wash) hydroton, I like that I can use much less medium and allow the roots to really grow under the cover (in theory) - any issues that come to mind that would be problematic with using these?

EDIT: I'm still experimenting with what rooting method/medium I like the best - have done bubbles, directly in hydroton in E&F, Rapid Rooters, and have a run of 100 clones in rockwool right now. That being said, since my new setup is gonna be so dialed in (a couple of grand just in HVAC and shit like that, so I'll be able to keep the temp and RH very constant), I'm thinking that I'm going to go aerocloning, so if you were thinking that the rockwool would get too wet in that system, that's not a worry right now.

Wow could that have been more succinct; my apologies.


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 14, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Hey Al, as long as you're still popping your head in, what are your thoughts on these:
> 
> http://www.amhydro.com/index.php/Do-It-Yourself-Components/199-3-x-3-Net-Well-Insert/flypage.tpl.html


Not necessary. Save your $130 per copy.



> For my next setup, basically copying your grow - 4 3x3 tables, two 1K lights (although the DIY cooltube/Adjust-a-Wing thing isn't for me, so I'm gonna get some Magnum XXXL reflectors, which are 30x38, so about the same - they're also air-cooled, obviously).


I can't see if these have both air intake and exhaust duct flanges- do they? As long as you can make a closed air circuit with them, drawing air into the fixture from outside the room airmass and dumping it there as well, they'll do fine. 



> Just wondering if you saw anything inherently flawed about using those inserts - because I use (and reuse, so the less I use, the easier to wash) hydroton, I like that I can use much less medium and allow the roots to really grow under the cover (in theory) - any issues that come to mind that would be problematic with using these?


Yep, 3 points: a) There's no need for the inserts. b) If roots escape the pots, they'll knit and make the plants necessarily stationary until harvest. It's good to be able to move plants around since they generally don't grow identically in height- nice to be able to move the shorter ones closer to the light. c) The inserts will create a moisture trap; water will condense on the underside of the insert- you're thus likely to see mould/mildew growth on them. The peroxide-treated nute soln won't come in regular contact with the underside of the inserts, all but guaranteeing you'll see mould/mildew on them. 

Use pellets, _completely_ clean all root matter from them, sterilise them and reuse them if you like, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that you get 100% sick of cleaning pellets by crop 3.

My only advice on cloning media is to avoid anything made of organic matter (coir, peat etc). It can be food for pathogens, mould, etc. and H2O2 will tend to make the stuff fragment. If you're using pellets, the bits can get loose, into the nute soln, possibly fouling pump impellers.

Rotsaruck.


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## william69er (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks al.b 
love ur grows alot of info.cheers from Aust


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## Knickers (Jan 15, 2010)

Hey Al B,

Good to see you round mate, Ive enjoyed reading your informative posts over the year(s) and was glossing over them again for some inspiration. I see that youve used UV for air purification, and I seem to remember you talked a bit about ozone generators. What are your feelings about the harmful side effects of ozone on plants/humans, and are you still using this technology?

Peace!


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## SeanIzen (Jan 15, 2010)

This is going to sound obvious... but you most grow the most killer bud ever man! 
I can only aspire to one day be as much of a "shaman" of marijuana growing as you seem to be around here hahahaha


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## KittyCat (Jan 15, 2010)

Al, really, really appreciate all you advise. I've made an "Fuct Bible" containing all of your posts that aren't you just repeating yourself for noobs. 

I would like a quick post from you detailing your handling of your mums.

3X3 tray, 450 light in cooltube. What size pot and contents? Same Flock & rockwool in the bottom? Nute soln specs? Ebb & Flow? How often? I know you prune twice to get them ready, then take cutting for 4-6 times before you turn them to compost. Right?

Thanks again!


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## Bob Smith (Jan 15, 2010)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Not necessary. Save your $130 per copy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you sir 

Appreciate your input and think that you're correct about the mold - that being said, I think there's some advantages to the lids as well.

1) Less hydroton (then running 2 gallon pots) - the less I have to use/clean, the better
2) Large root masses then possible in similar-sized pots
3) The biggest for me, ease of rotation - instead of moving 24 plants individually, I can just rotate the tray 90 degrees every day - that's the biggest selling point to me right now.

And Al, for some reason I don't mind cleaning (a reasonable amount of) hydroton - soak it in a 1-9 parts bleach to water solution overnight, then pick out any dead leaves/roots for five or ten minutes the next morning.

Wash it off and I'm golden - takes about 20-30 minutes of work for more then a tray's worth of hydroton - I'd use rockwool, but 1) I have no good way of disposing of it, 2) I like to go to the hydro store as infrequently as possible, so the next time I go I'll buy two year's worth of nutes and that'll be that, and 3) I like being able to flood more often.

Long story short, methinks I'm gonna give the trays a try, but reserve the right to tell you that you were correct and I wasted $500 in a few months.

EDIT: Al, you ever used a mechanized trimming machine, or thought about getting one? If so, what were your thoughts? Planning on doing two tables every month instead of one table every two weeks (because it'd be more efficient to use a mechanized trimmer with a larger quantity of weed).


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## Bob Smith (Jan 15, 2010)

KittyCat said:


> Al, really, really appreciate all you advise. I've made an "Fuct Bible" containing all of your posts that aren't you just repeating yourself for noobs.
> 
> I would like a quick post from you detailing your handling of your mums.
> 
> ...


Hey Kitty, I know that I'd love if you posted said "Bible" - that'd really be some useful reading.


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## KittyCat (Jan 15, 2010)

Is this what you use? It says Canna AQUA Flores A (& Canna AQUA Flores B)? Just want to do it right.

Sorry for separate posts for the 2nd question. I know how you hate that. 

Attn: Bob Smith - I plan on posting the Fuct Bible, but I want to clean it up some first. (BUT I do take after Mr. Fuct, ie. lazy stoner. lolololololol) Does anyone know how to post a large document? It'll be about 10 pages, or so says Mr. Fuct. hehe

---------------Kitty


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## Knickers (Jan 15, 2010)

Maybe host it on google documents as a .doc file and post the link... or just take the time to make 10 full page posts, copy and paste


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## KittyCat (Jan 16, 2010)

Ah CRAP! Someone help me now, PLEASE!

Didn't think my beans would start sprouting so quick. ( 36 hours! paper towel in plastic bag on a heat pad) I have a ph/TDS meter ordered, but I guess I can't wait. The water company says my ph is 7.8. I need to lower it to 5.0 to presoak my 1.5" rockwool cubes. I'm using General Hydroponics pH down, the orange stuff. How much should I use for a liter of water? And then how much should I use to lower my water to 5.8 to prepare my cubes for planting?

I know, I know, I'm fuct!  I have more seeds, so if I cook them either high or low, I can start over. Meter should be here in a week, so after that I'll be fine. Anyone? I know it's a guess, but I guess it's better than no pH adjustement. Thanks in advance!

Yep, I'm working on the Fuct Bible - Quotes by Rev. Al B. Fuct!

-------------Kitty


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## doogleef (Jan 16, 2010)

No More than a drop or 2. The GH PH down is very concentrated.


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## dirtysteve (Jan 17, 2010)

You could go out and pick up some pH test papers at Home Depot or Lowe's. Probably be in the pool/pond/garden section. Not the most accurate way to test but it will get you in the ballpark.


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## DarkCursade (Jan 17, 2010)

Al B. Fuct,

Where abouts can I get H202 from in OZ, http://www.cleaningproducts.net.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=106 is that the correct product....


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## Jamyang (Jan 24, 2010)

Where did everyone go?


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## Sub Zero (Feb 2, 2010)

I sure wish Al B would spend more time with us...


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## GypsyBush (Feb 3, 2010)

Sub Zero said:


> I sure wish Al B would spend more time with us...


I do too... but I am really really glad for the threads he left behind...

EVERYTHING needed to copy his methods is here at RIU....

THANKS AL.!!!!


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## 1freezy (Feb 24, 2010)

Big fan al good to see you around!


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## kstampy (Apr 1, 2010)

So I am mirroring Al's set up almost completely except for medium (hydroton/ez cloner, rockwool makes my skin itchy as hell so not worth it to me) and strain (I just can not find SWT #4 anywhere but a buddy is hooking it up with Block Head! woot) and I took the time and went through the ENTIRE "Harvest every 2 week" thread and copy pasted all the significant information (while minimizing Al's poor knack for generously repeating himself to noobs lol) into a word document. 

Mind you it came out to 171 pages because of sigs and ads and all the html and honestly I just use the search function to look things up so I didn't plan on cleaning it up. I could share this if anyone is interested... just let me know what way is best to get it in your hands and I will try to help you guys out. Heck, maybe someone will even want to clean it up .


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## Hemlock (Apr 2, 2010)

Al B. Fuct said:


> no wucking furries, mate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Al I have followed you for years.
However I grow in coco, perlite and red rock and use molasses in my res and have for over two years, Plants seem to really lke it. Getting about 1-1.5 Z off each plant (dry)average.


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 9, 2010)

Hi peepholes. Just visiting. 

Hemlock, as I've said oh-so-many times before, plants can't eat sugars. There may be _some_ benefit to sugars in soil based systems employing organic nutes as the microbes which break down the organics into N, P & K may eat the sugars, but in such an arrangement, there's plenty for the microbes to eat in terms of the organic matter they are breaking down into N, P & K. Don't get me started on the difficulties people encounter with organic nutes... 

If using a soilless, inorganic system, which should be sterilised with H2O2, there should be no microbes and you should provide nothing for them to eat to keep tanks clean & clear. You will find that stopping adding molasses will have no effect on your soilless, inorganic hydro system, aside from cleaner tanks.


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## Bob Smith (Jun 10, 2010)

Al, great to see you back, friend.

You warned me about going 9/sf, and you were probably right, but I think I might've gotten it to work out *reasonably* for me (chopping tomorrow, so we'll see about weight).

Here's a coupla pics, though - they're from a couple of weeks ago, so they've beefed up a little.


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## don2009 (Jun 10, 2010)

Hey Al hows everything going? Fine I hope. Hey I'm having LOTS of trouble cloneing I did 3 batches of 20 clones and I failed them all except my first batch got 7, and im trying to do your harvest 2 wks but I cant get the cloneing thing down pack. Last time I think I sprayed the clones to much with water and then when when you squeeze the stem it has nothing inside of it completly gone so I took the clone out and looked in it ( Iknew it was dead thats why I took it out) it was a hole str8 to the top almost all of them so I did reserch and I think I did mist them to much. Hey I got the cutting down I keep everything clean I soak the cubes for like 15-24hrs I follwed everything you said on your other thread. So I cloned the 3rd time and this time I really fucked up. I have a humidfier a vix one you know the one you use for if you have a cold it let out to much heat on the clones so the top of the clones leafs wilted and turn brown then on top of that on the 6 day I thought they would have a lil roots so I put a little bit of water and a tab bit of flower solution in the tray then they really died IDK what to do I think I should take away those things that I did wrong and then they should work what do you think? I dont know how to maintain them after I cut them, and IDK what triggers the roots to come out thats why im failing plz help I been waiting for you to come back. So I have one set of clones in flower almost 3 wks and my next harvest wouldnt be until a month now cuz I messed up 2 whole batches  Thanks Al B your the best man.


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## don2009 (Jun 10, 2010)

I messed up on this one


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## homebrewer (Jun 10, 2010)

So this place was in worse condition at one point than it is now?  yikes.....


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## ympb (Jun 10, 2010)

Thanks for all the info...


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