# average amount of red hairs at harvest?



## mr. green thumb 01 (Apr 18, 2009)

so i have been looking at my trichs and waiting for them to change more amber and i was just wondering what the average percentage of red hairs you have at harvest. Are the hairs usually 100% red for optimal harvest time or are some still white. My last harvest I couldn't wait for amber trichs just cloudy and had about 80- 90% red hairs.


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## CANinBIZ (Apr 18, 2009)

Well it could depend on what strain you have, on my unknown strain all the hairs stayed bright white and my fire crip plant was covered in red hairs.


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## t0k3s (Apr 18, 2009)

mr. green thumb 01 said:


> so i have been looking at my trichs and waiting for them to change more amber and i was just wondering what the average percentage of red hairs you have at harvest. Are the hairs usually 100% red for optimal harvest time or are some still white. My last harvest I couldn't wait for amber trichs just cloudy and had about 80- 90% red hairs.


Its not the color but the way they appear,they all should be dead and curled up into the calyx.Don't get caught up in colors,its all stages of life not colors you want to harvest it after its completed its growing cycle,but common signs are,the small leaf will be horned up on the edges,the calyxs"the spot where the pistols come out" will be swollen and the plant will appear dead.let it go as long as possible you want it to flush its system and rid itself of nasties and leave you with good taste,don't worry about the bud degrading it takes weeks for that to happen and you will never get close to that point,wait till you see the golden glow, you will know what i mean when you see it check these pictures below.the first one is still very alive the second you can tell has completed its life cycle


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## mr. green thumb 01 (Apr 18, 2009)

yea i think I know what your talking about with the glow..is it bad to make them flower too long...i really do like a couch lock retarded feeling buzz...


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## t0k3s (Apr 18, 2009)

mr. green thumb 01 said:


> yea i think I know what your talking about with the glow..is it bad to make them flower too long...i really do like a couch lock retarded feeling buzz...


let them go as long as you want, you will only get stoned,you do want that right Just trust me and let them go until there is no cloudy trichomes left,or very few if that,or let it go until there is none period and you will be smoking FIRE,probably even one hitter quiter but only if you let it finish,and give it plenty of fresh water to flush it real good,chop it one branch at a time so you dont take to much off at one time or so you can sample it after it dries if it smokes like you want finish harvesting if you want to let it go more then thats fine to,or harvest all at once but just let it finsih what ever you do you wont regret it


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## mr. green thumb 01 (Apr 18, 2009)

mannn im so impatient, i hate that! I guess ill let them go a lil longer for more amber. How much longer after cloudy till amber...im so impatient. I heard that amber means the thc has degraded and it will no be as potient. I heard 10% amber or the first sign of amber for highest concentration of thc. Is the high better when there 100% amber?


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## frostythesnowthug (Apr 19, 2009)

yes as it depends on the strain and the high youre trying to achieve..
sativa dominant plants are highin thc but low in cannabinoids..Indicas tend to be lower in thc but higher levels of cannabinoids..

If you harvest at first signs of amber you will be somewhere close to peak thc level..
the more amber trichs the lower the thc and higher levels of cbd,cbn etc which will give you that couchlock effect

Is the high better when 100% amber?? couchlock isnt for everyone, my wife prefers smokin sativas at 100% cloudy, for the high thc head high... i prefer indicas at 50/50% cloudy/amber for a lil head buzz and some pain killing relief/sleep..


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## SpruceZeus (Apr 19, 2009)

as frosty put it, it all depends.

I'm personally of the opinion that 90% of the growers on this site (And probably in general) harvest too early. By letting the plants go a little longer you're ensuring that the've plumped as much as they're going to.
Despite popular opinion to the contrary(and don't fool yourself, the jury is still out on this one) I hold the belief that a week or two is not going to make the drastic difference in the cannabinoid profile that people are on about. And even if it does, recent studies have shown ;contrary to what was previously believed, that THC itself (And its predecessor THC-A) are quite guilty of causing the confusion and drowsyness associated with burnout and other cannabinoids (our friend CBN, and a handful of others) to be the catylist (along with THC) to being 'high' rather than 'baked' 
Regardless, whether or not theres any substance to the aforementioned study, its easy to get the high you want.
If you want a soaring 'cerebral' high: Get yourself a tropical sativa that contains a high level of THC-V and grow it until it is ripe. 
If you want the narcotic couchlock stone, grow a rugged indica until its ripe.
Notice a pattern of growing it until its ripe? Its a really good rule to live by. 
This is a game of patience, i learned early on if you're gonna cut corners (or days) you're better off not doing it at all.
Do things right and you will thank yourself. and so will your kind buds.
happy growing friend


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## t0k3s (Apr 19, 2009)

SpruceZeus said:


> as frosty put it, it all depends.
> 
> I'm personally of the opinion that 90% of the growers on this site (And probably in general) harvest too early. By letting the plants go a little longer you're ensuring that the've plumped as much as they're going to.
> Despite popular opinion to the contrary(and don't fool yourself, the jury is still out on this one) I hold the belief that a week or two is not going to make the drastic difference in the cannabinoid profile that people are on about. And even if it does, recent studies have shown ;contrary to what was previously believed, that THC itself (And its predecessor THC-A) are quite guilty of causing the confusion and drowsyness associated with burnout and other cannabinoids (our friend CBN, and a handful of others) to be the catylist (along with THC) to being 'high' rather than 'baked'
> ...


So very true,people harvest there plants with cloudy trichomes thinking they will get a sativa type high,its all BS,they are smoking immature resin glands, and immature resin glands give you what feels like a head high but really is a buzz and will wear off quite quick,letting it mature will not hurt anything,and no just becuase the resin glands are amber does not mean they are degraded,thc does not degrade until all resing glands are amber and have converted to cbd's which is weeks after they turn amber,all this crap about harvest early or you will ruin your buds is what i said CRAP,and its steering so many growers into harvesting early and ruining there crops,do your self a favor and give it some patience,everyone knows the feeling of wanting to chop your plants,but thats part of growing,if it comes down to it chop some lower small branches of to test sample it and let the rest go for a few weeks after that so you can at least get good smoke and let them finish


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## t0k3s (Apr 19, 2009)

frostythesnowthug said:


> yes as it depends on the strain and the high youre trying to achieve..
> sativa dominant plants are highin thc but low in cannabinoids..Indicas tend to be lower in thc but higher levels of cannabinoids..
> 
> If you harvest at first signs of amber you will be somewhere close to peak thc level..
> ...


Maybe not so much better at 100% amber but more stoney.peak potency is when about 60-70 percent of the trichomes are amber and the rest cloudy thats right around peak potency.50/50 amber and milky is fine also but any less then that will lose potency,the high is based on the strain like you said,harvesting ealry will have no effect on the high it will only give and immature resin glands,which give a buzz like feeling causing people to think they are getting a head high but really are not,until you have smoked pure sativa or pretty close to it you can tell a head high from a buzz like feeling,letting it get amber will not degrade it either its a myth,it takes weeks to get anyware near what people are saying its all hear say "maturity=quality" i think thats gonna be my new quote


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## SpruceZeus (Apr 19, 2009)

t0k3s said:


> "maturity=quality" i think thats gonna be my new quote


I couldn't have said it better myself.


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## mr. green thumb 01 (Apr 19, 2009)

yea im definitely going to wait for amber but usually how long after there cloudy untill there amber i just am wondering if I should keep giving them nutes because there 100% cloudy with a seldem seeing amber. I want to give them only water for atleast a week before harvest..


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## scottish lad (Apr 19, 2009)

what a great thread am about the same stage and i have been reading about choping when milky am defo going to wait till 70% amber 

great info keep up the gd work .


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## Brick Top (Apr 19, 2009)

Maturity equals quality but amber trichomes is not the only definition of maturity. For someone who prefers slightly more of a head high the last thing they want is amber trichomes. They want to harvest when they are milky white. If someone prefers more of a couch-lock stone then amber or mostly amber trichomes is the ticket. But neither is the singular best time to harvest for everyone.

Once the color begins to darken the THC is breaking down so it is a fallacy that you get higher levels of THC from amber trichomes. What you get is an increased level of CBN and that makes people feel more "messed up" but it isn&#8217;t being higher, it is just a different buzz. 







*Marijuana*

*Cannabinoids (THC, CBD, CBN...)*



*The Active Ingredients Of Cannabis*

Cannabis products include marijuana, hashish, and hashish oil. 
*THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol)* gets a user high, a larger THC content will produce a stronger high. Without THC you don't get high. 

*CBD (Cannabidiol)* increases some of the effects of THC and decreases other effects of THC. High levels of THC and low levels of CBD contribute to a strong, clear headed, more energetic high. 

Cannabis that has a high level of both THC and CBD will produce a strong head-stone that feels almost dreamlike. Cannabis that has low levels of THC and high levels of CBD produces more of a stoned feeling. The mind feels dull and the body feels tired. 

*CBN (Cannabinol)* *is produced as THC ages and breaks down, this process is known as oxidization. High levels of CBN tend to make the user feel messed up rather than high.* 

CBN levels can be kept to a minimum by storing cannabis products in a dark, cool, airtight environment. Marijuana should be dry prior to storage, and may have to be dried again after being stored somewhere that is humid. 

*THCV (Tetrahydrocannabivarin)* is found primarily in strains of African and Asian cannabis. THCV increases the speed and intensity of THC effects, but also causes the high to end sooner. Weed that smells strong (prior to smoking) might indicate a high level of THCV. 

*CBC (Cannabichromene)* is probably not psychoactive in pure form but is thought to interact with THC to enhance the high. 

*CBL (Cannabicyclol)* is a degradative product like CBN. Light converts CBC to CBL. 

If you are a grower, you can experiment with different strains of cannabis to produce the various qualities you seek. A medical user looking for something with sleep inducing properties might want to produce a crop that has high levels of CBD. 

Another user looking for a more energetic high will want to grow a strain that has high levels of THC and low levels of CBD. In general, Cannabis sativa has lower levels of CBD and higher levels of THC. Cannabis indica has higher amounts of CBD and lower amounts of THC than sativa. See marijuana strains. 


*For a more scientific description*, see below for an excerpt from marijuana growers guide by Mel Frank. 

Cannabis is unique in many ways. Of all plants, it is the only genus known to produce chemical substances known as herbal cannabinoids. These cannabinoids are the psychoactive ingredients of marijuana; they are what get you high, buzzed, or stoned. By 1974, there were 37 naturally occurring cannabinoids that had been discovered. 

There are 3 types of cannabinoids: 
--- Herbal: occur naturally only in the cannabis plant 
--- Endogenous: occur naturally in humans and other animals 
--- Synthetic: cannabinoids produced in a lab 

Most of the cannabinoids appear in very small amounts (less than .01 percent of total cannabinoids) and are not considered psychoactive, or else not important to the high. Many are simply homologues or analogues (similar structure or function) to the few major cannabinoids which are listed. 

There are several numbering systems used for cannabinoids. The system used here is based on formal chemical rules for numbering pyran compounds (any of a class of organic compounds of the heterocyclic series in which five carbon atoms and one oxygen atom are present in a ring structure). Another common system is used more by Europeans and is based on a monoterpenoid system which is more useful considering the biogenesis of the compound. 


*Tetrahydrocannabinol - THC*

Delta 9-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol - delta-9 THC is the main psychotomimetic (mindbending) ingredient of marijuana. Estimates state that 70 to 100 percent of the marijuana high results from the delta-9 THC present. It occurs in almost all cannabis in concentrations that vary from traces to about 95 percent of all the cannabinoids in the sample. 

In very potent strains, carefully prepared marijuana can be 30 percent delta-9 THC by dry weight (seeds and stems removed from flowering buds). Buds are the popular name given to masses of female flowers that form distinct clusters. 

Delta 8-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol - delta-8 THC is reported in low concentration, less than one percent of the delta-9 THC present. Its activity is slightly less than that of delta-9 THC. It may be an artefact of the extraction/analysis process. Almost everyone who uses the term THC, refers to delta-9 THC and delta-8 THC combined, as THC. 


*Cannabidiol - CBD*

Cannabidiol - CBD also occurs in almost all strains. Concentration range from none, to about 95 percent of the total cannabinoids present. THC and CBD are the two most abundant naturally occurring cannabinoids. CBD is not psychotomimetic in the pure form, although it does have sedative, analgesic, and antibiotic properties. 

In order for CBD to affect the high, THC must be present in quantities ordinarily psychoactive. CBD can contribute to the high by interacting with THC to potentiate (enhance) or antagonize (interfere or lessen) certain qualities of the high. 

CBD appears to potentiate the depressant effects of THC and antagonize is excitatory effects. CBD also delays the onset of the high but can make it last considerably longer (as much as twice as long). The kind of grass that takes a while to come on but keeps coming on. 

Opinions are conflicting as to whether it increases or decreases the intensity of the high, intensity and high being difficult to define. Terms such as knock-out or sleepy, dreamlike, or melancholic are often used to describe the high from grass with sizeable proportions of CBD and THC. 

When only small amounts of THC are present with high proportions of CBD, the high is more of a buzz, and the mind feels dull and the body de-energized. 


*Cannabinol - CBN*

Cannabinol - *CBN is not produced by the plant per se. It is the degradation (oxidative) product of THC. Fresh samples of marijuana contain very little CBN but curing, poor storage, or processing such as when making hashish, can cause much of the THC to be oxidized to CBN. Pure forms of CBN have at most 10 percent of the psychoactivity of THC. *

*Like CBD, it is suspected of potentiating certain aspects of the high, although so far these effects appear to be slight. CBN seems to potentiate THC's disorienting qualities. One may feel more dizzy or drugged or generally messed up but not necessarily higher. *

*In fact, with a high proportion of CBN, the high may start well but feels as if it never quite reaches its peak, and when coming down one feels tired or sleepy. High CBN in homegrown grass is not desirable since it represents a loss of 90 percent of the psychoactivity of its precursor THC.* 


*Tetrahydrocannabivarin - THCV*

Tetrahydrocannabivarin - THCV or THV is the propyl homologue of THC. In the aromatic ring the usual five-carbon pentyl is replaced by a short three-carbon propyl chain. The propyl cannabinoids have so far been found in some strains originating from Southeast and Central Asia and parts of Africa. 

In one study, THCV made up to 48.23 percent (Afghanistan strain) and 53.69 percent (South Africa) of the cannabinoids found. We've seen no reports on its activity in humans. From animal studies it appears to be much faster in onset and quicker to dissipate than THC. It may be the constituent of one or two toke grass, but its activity appears to be somewhat less than that of THC. Some people use the term THC to refer collectively to delta-9 THC, delta-8 THC, and THCV. 

An interesting note is that people who have a prescription for Marinol (synthetic medical THC) may be tested for THCV. Marinol contains no THCV, if a person tests positive it means they have been using marijuana, or another cannabis product. This is usually sufficient grounds to terminate the prescription of a person who has signed a contract not to ingest any cannabis while taking Marinol. 


*Cannabichromene - CBC*

Cannabichromene - CBC is another major cannabinoid, although it is found in smaller concentrations than CBD and THC. It was previously believed that is was a minor constituent, but more exacting analysis showed that the compound often reported as CBD may actually be CBC. 

Relative to THC and CBD, its concentration in the plants is low, probably not exceeding 20 percent of total cannabinoids. CBC is believed not to be psychotomimetic in humans; however, its presence in plants is purportedly very potent has led to the suspicion that it may be interacting with THC to enhance the high. 


*Cannabicyclol - CBL*

Cannabicyclol (CBL) is a degradative product like CBN. During extraction, light converts CBC to CBL. There are no reports on its activity in humans, and it is found in small amounts, if at all, in fresh plant material. 


*Cannabinoids And The High*

The marijuana high is a complex experience. It involves a wide range of psychical, physical, and emotional responses. The high is a subjective experience based in the individual and one's personality, mood, disposition, and experience with the drug. 

Given the person, the intensity of the high depends primarily on the amount of THC present in the marijuana. Delta-9 THC is the main ingredient of marijuana and must be present in sufficient quantities for a good marijuana high. 

People who smoke grass that has very little cannabinoids other than delta-9 THC usually report that the high is very intense. Most people that don't smoke daily will feel something from a joint having delta-9 THC of 3 percent concentration to material. 

*Cannabis products having* a THC concentration of 5-10 percent would be considered good, 10-25 percent would be considered very good, and over 25 percent would be excellent quality by daily users standards. In general, we use potency to mean the sum effects of the cannabinoids and the overall high induced. 

Marijuana is sometimes rated more potent than the content of delta-9 THC alone would suggest. It also elicits qualitatively different highs. The reasons for this have not been sorted out. Few clinical studies with known combinations of several cannabinoids have been undertaken with human subjects. 

So far, different highs and possibly higher potency seem to be due to the interaction of delta-9 THC and other cannabinoids (THCV,CBD,CBN, and possibly CBC). Except for THCV, in the pure form, these other cannabinoids do not have much psychoactivity. 

*Another possibility for* higher potency is that homologues of delta-9 THC with longer side chains at C-3 (and higher activity) might be found in certain marijuana strains. 

Compounds with longer side chains have been made in laboratories and their activity is sometimes much higher, with estimates over 500 times that of natural delta-9 THC. 

The possibility that there are non-cannabinoids that are psychoactive or interacting with the cannabinoids has not been investigated in detail. Non-cannabinoids with biological activity have been isolated from the plants, but only in very small quantities. 

*None are known* to be psychotomimetic. However, they may contribute to the overall experience in non-mental ways, such as the stimulation of the appetite. 

Different blends of cannabinoids account for the different qualities of intoxication produced by different strains of cannabis. The intensity of the high depends primarily on the amount of delta-9 THC present and on the method of ingestion. 

A complex drug such as marijuana affects the mind and body in many ways. Sorting out what accounts for what response can become quite complex.


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## mr. green thumb 01 (Apr 19, 2009)

man thats a lot of info to take in. My brain is in overdrive. Thanks you guys are genius! Its amazing how much of a science this has come to after all the years. So then according to that you would still want some milky trichs to activate the effects of the amber trichs, so that they work with each other in getting you stoned. crazey stuff mannnn


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## t0k3s (Apr 19, 2009)

Brick Top said:


> Maturity equals quality but amber trichomes is not the only definition of maturity. For someone who prefers slightly more of a head high the last thing they want is amber trichomes. They want to harvest when they are milky white. If someone prefers more of a couch-lock stone then amber or mostly amber trichomes is the ticket. But neither is the singular best time to harvest for everyone.
> 
> Once the color begins to darken the THC is breaking down so it is a fallacy that you get higher levels of THC from amber trichomes. What you get is an increased level of CBN and that makes people feel more "messed up" but it isn&#8217;t being higher, it is just a different buzz.
> 
> ...


I have read that but thanks,couch lock?what is that,there's head high and body high but i don't know of a couch lock high.I never said amber means good,i said amber does not mean bad,or degraded,there more then just colors involved in harvest,there will be signs,and changes that you can actually see resin glands go through,the color is just a side effect,and like i said before the people harvesting with cloudy trichomes are harvesting premature bud,i have seen the plants they harvest they are still growing when they get chopped.If you don't like body high then get a full on sativa,harvesting a indica early is pointless,dont grow it if you dont like body highs all plants need to mature to be good quality,thats why they have different strains so you can let it finish and still get the high you want,if your growing bagseed you no choice really its all odds,but if you get a indica dominant plant so what let it finish i though people want to get high not weak buzzes,but thats me i like to be highread this thread its all about this topic,premature harvesting is BS dont give into it

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/111444-anyne-ever-smoked-overripe-buds.html


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## chitownsmoking (Apr 19, 2009)

not a very good question


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## t0k3s (Apr 19, 2009)

chitownsmoking said:


> not a very good question


It was actually a good question,i saved him from getting mislead into chopping early


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## chitownsmoking (Apr 19, 2009)

the outcome of the question may have been good the question though is flawed. because almost all the answers to it wll be diffrent


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## t0k3s (Apr 19, 2009)

mr. green thumb 01 said:


> man thats a lot of info to take in. My brain is in overdrive. Thanks you guys are genius! Its amazing how much of a science this has come to after all the years. So then according to that you would still want some milky trichs to activate the effects of the amber trichs, so that they work with each other in getting you stoned. crazey stuff mannnn


about 15-20% milky the rest amber,if you want more stonie bud then full amber.


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## chitownsmoking (Apr 19, 2009)

most of us harvest on tricones not hairs dog


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## t0k3s (Apr 19, 2009)

chitownsmoking said:


> most of us harvest on tricones not hairs dog


Did you even read the thread,and no Im not a dog,and when you learn to spell then step up dawg What is a tricone?


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## scottish lad (Apr 21, 2009)

its a fancy word for your crystls you need to wait till they are roughly 70% amber not the hairs . 

you need a plus 30 microscope to have a good look at them . 

they will go milky white first then amber


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## malbulja (Apr 21, 2009)

t0k3s said:


> What is a tricone?


I like sprinkles on my tricone...


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## rollingotties (Apr 21, 2009)

hey guys, great thread. and tons of info. i was confused myself about when to harvest, what kind of high i would get, thc degrading, and all that stuff. this thread really solved a bunch of my questions. 

keep it up and happy growing


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## t0k3s (Apr 21, 2009)

malbulja said:


> I like sprinkles on my tricone...


lol,the guy above you does not even have a clue haha


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## Brick Top (Apr 21, 2009)

scottish lad said:


> its a fancy word for your crystls you need to wait till they are roughly 70% amber not the hairs .
> 
> you need a plus 30 microscope to have a good look at them .
> 
> they will go milky white first then amber


 

You "need" your trichomes to be 70% amber *ONLY* *IF* you want more of a couch-lock stone. 

If you want more of a head high you want to harvest when the trichomes are milky white.


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## t0k3s (Apr 21, 2009)

Brick Top said:


> You "need" your trichomes to be 70% amber *ONLY* *IF* you want more of a couch-lock stone.
> 
> If you want more of a head high you want to harvest when the trichomes are milky white.


Id hate to be smoking your bud


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## Brick Top (Apr 21, 2009)

t0k3s said:


> Id hate to be smoking your bud


 
If you let your trichomes turn mostly amber I would really hate to smoke your bud.


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## malbulja (Apr 21, 2009)

Brick Top said:


> You "need" your trichomes to be 70% amber *ONLY* *IF* you want more of a couch-lock stone.
> 
> If you want more of a head high you want to harvest when the trichomes are milky white.


From the sound of these posts it would seem that there is no need for different phenotypes (Sativa, Indica) because apparently you can achieve a Sativa type head high by just harvesting any plant when the trichs are milky white and acheive an Indica high by just waiting till any plant is all amber. 

Wouldn't it make more sense to just grow the strain for the type of high you want and then harvest the plant when its actually done instead of trying to manipulate nature??


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## Brick Top (Apr 21, 2009)

malbulja said:


> From the sound of these posts it would seem that there is no need for different phenotypes (Sativa, Indica) because apparently you can achieve a Sativa type head high by just harvesting any plant when the trichs are milky white and acheive an Indica high by just waiting till any plant is all amber.
> 
> Wouldn't it make more sense to just grow the strain for the type of high you want and then harvest the plant when its actually done instead of trying to manipulate nature??


 
That is not true. The basic high or stone will be decided genetically but you can fine tune it. You can increase certain effects to a point but not beyond that. 

For example sativas from equatorial regions have not only THC but also THCV and there is nothing you can ever do to create that in any strain that does not genetically have it regardless of what is done either during growing or harvesting.


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## t0k3s (Apr 21, 2009)

malbulja said:


> From the sound of these posts it would seem that there is no need for different phenotypes (Sativa, Indica) because apparently you can achieve a Sativa type head high by just harvesting any plant when the trichs are milky white and acheive an Indica high by just waiting till any plant is all amber.
> 
> Wouldn't it make more sense to just grow the strain for the type of high you want and then harvest the plant when its actually done instead of trying to manipulate nature??


Ive been trying to get that across....but according to these guy's, 500 years ago you could just stroll over to radio shack and pick up a scope at harvest time


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## t0k3s (Apr 21, 2009)

Brick Top said:


> That is not true. The basic high or stone will be decided genetically but you can fine tune it. You can increase certain effects to a point but not beyond that.
> 
> For example sativas from equatorial regions have not only THC but also THCV and there is nothing you can ever do to create that in any strain that does not genetically have it regardless of what is done either during growing or harvesting.


You just proved yourself wrong in your own answer.


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## Brick Top (Apr 21, 2009)

t0k3s said:


> Ive been trying to get that across....but according to these guy's, 500 years ago you could just stroll over to radio shack and pick up a scope at harvest time


 


That doesn't make any sense. It is not as if trichomes turn amber and then stop and not turn brown and therfore the pot is worthless and lacking a scope 500 years ago you wold not have any better chance of knowing when trichomes were amber than you would when they were mikly white or even clear. 

Not to mention that 500 years ago no one knew what effects different colored trichomes would produce since they did not even know what trichomes were. 

The most anyone could have done is to sample buds and when they like dit they harvested it and since mikly white trichomes will get you high what makes anyone think someone would have them waited longer? 

There is no logic to your position because what you believe in would take the same scope/technology to assure as harvesting when trichomes are milky white would.


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## Brick Top (Apr 21, 2009)

t0k3s said:


> You just proved yourself wrong in your own answer.


 
Where? I said that you can fine tune effects but you cannot totally alter them.

You cannot turn a sativa into an indica by harvesting when the trichomes are amber and you cannot turn an indica into a sativa by harvesting when the trichomes are milky but you can increase the head high or couch-lock effects somewhat by harvesting at different times.

Is that beyond your level of comprehension?


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## SpruceZeus (Apr 21, 2009)

Hey man, you already posted that chart in this thread. It is really vague and flawed in that it doesnt take into account any other signs of "doneness" I've had amber and cloudy trichs at 3 weeks of flowering, but no experienced grower would actually harvest then.

Its charts like these that lead newbs to harvest far too early for their own good. 

I held my tongue the first time. Even when 'you' explained the major cannabinoids twice. with outdated and conflicting information.


> *THCV (Tetrahydrocannabivarin)* is found primarily in strains of African and Asian cannabis. *THCV increases the speed and intensity of THC effects*, but also causes the high to end sooner.


So THC-V gets you higher faster but for a shorter amount of time? 
In my experience, pure-ish sativas with tropical origins that i've grown have a high that lasts much longer than the supposedly THCV-free indicas. Of course, i have no way of measuring specific cannabinoids within my weed, so it would be irresponsable to claim absolute knowledge of the psychoactive profiles of my cannabis. This is merely an observation.


> Weed that smells strong (prior to smoking) might indicate a high level of THCV.


I'd love to see anything at all to back this up.





> Tetrahydrocannabivarin - THCV or THV is the propyl homologue of THC. In the aromatic ring the usual five-carbon pentyl is replaced by a short three-carbon propyl chain. The propyl cannabinoids have so far been found in some strains originating from Southeast and Central Asia and parts of Africa.
> 
> In one study, THCV made up to 48.23 percent (Afghanistan strain) and 53.69 percent (South Africa) of the cannabinoids found. *We've seen no reports on its activity in humans*.


Oh? are you/the original author using animal studies as a basis for your facts? or are you just quoting two different articles with conflicting information?



> Different blends of cannabinoids account for the different qualities of intoxication produced by different strains of cannabis. The intensity of the high depends primarily on the amount of delta-9 THC present and on the method of ingestion.


While i'd agree with the first part of this, its almost as if you (or more than likely whoever you copied this from) are under the impression that THC is the only cannabinoid that actually gets you high. 

People should learn to listen to their plants and harvest when they're ready, not when some arbitrary guide tells them to.

Why this war against ripe marijuana?

If you want a "head" high. grow a sativa to maturity, dont ruin an indica by chopping it before it has developed.

Stop the foolishness.


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## t0k3s (Apr 21, 2009)

Brick Top said:


> That doesn't make any sense. It is not as if trichomes turn amber and then stop and not turn brown and therfore the pot is worthless and lacking a scope 500 years ago you wold not have any better chance of knowing when trichomes were amber than you would when they were mikly white or even clear.
> 
> Not to mention that 500 years ago no one knew what effects different colored trichomes would produce since they did not even know what trichomes were.
> 
> ...


Hahaha put the joint down and clear your brain out,cannabis has been around for thousands of years,and it ,sprouts,grows,they pollinate eachother,produce seeds and flowers,then the cycle is over,if you harvest before the cycle is over thats called premature,just like you would not want to have a baby to early, "PREMATURE" you want mature colas which you cant get unless you let the plant finish its cycle other wise its not finished,go on google and learn the cycle of the plant rather then sit here telling me stories about milky and amber trichomes,and oh yea my post,it was a joke by the way,it was aimed at those who always say,get a scope its the only way.


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## Brick Top (Apr 21, 2009)

SpruceZeus said:


> Hey man, you already posted that chart in this thread. It is really vague and flawed in that it doesnt take into account any other signs of "doneness" I've had amber and cloudy trichs at 3 weeks of flowering, but no experienced grower would actually harvest then.
> 
> Its charts like these that lead newbs to harvest far too early for their own good.
> 
> ...


Any information/advice, such as yours, that says "in my experience" is almost always totally wrong. 

For one you said "pure-ish" and I never said anything about crosses, did I? Any time you have a cross you will have combined genetics and they will alter results. So your "pure-ish" sativas are not comparable to what I said. 

The problem with people like yourself is you suffer from the delusion that THC levels are at their highest only when they are amber and that is a myth, an urban legend, a fallacy. It is what people who do not know the chemistry and biology of marijuana plants believe because certain effects seem to be more potent to them. 

Once trichomes begin to darken the THC is beginning to break down so the level of THC cannot increase at that point and can only go down. If someone prefers the feeling of a couch-lock stone due to increased levels of CBN then by all means that is when they should harvest. But only the ignorant truly believe that equates to an increased level of THC. IT is only an increase in the effects they prefer. 

That is the whole point to what I have said all along and that is each individual should harvest when the trichome color will give them the effects they most like. There is no rationale to harvesting when trichomes are milky white if you prefer more of a head high and less of a stone and there is no rationale in harvesting when the trichomes are amber if you prefer more of a head high and less of a stone. 

Why is it that you cannot understand and accept such an extremely simple concept? 

As for misleading newbs it is people like you who tell them to harvest when their crops will best fit *YOUR* personal preference rather then schooling them in how things work and then allowing *THEM* to decide for themselves when is the proper time to harvest so *THEY* end up with what *THEY* will like the most instead of what *YOU* would like the most. 

As for your claim about seeing amber and cloudy trichomes after only 3-weeks of flowering, well I began growing roughly 37-years ago and I have never so much as one single time seen that happen. I can only believe that you are attempting to manufacture "evidence" to support your position.


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## malbulja (Apr 21, 2009)

SpruceZeus said:


> Hey man, you already posted that chart in this thread. It is really vague and flawed in that it doesnt take into account any other signs of "doneness" I've had amber and cloudy trichs at 3 weeks of flowering, but no experienced grower would actually harvest then.
> 
> Its charts like these that lead newbs to harvest far too early for their own good.
> 
> ...


Well said Spruce! If I see that stupid ass GrowFAQ trichome diagram one more time! I think it's pretty clear, when your plant looks like this:







Its done. If not then you're smoking resin glands.


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## Brick Top (Apr 21, 2009)

t0k3s said:


> Hahaha put the joint down and clear your brain out,cannabis has been around for thousands of years,and it ,sprouts,grows,they pollinate eachother,produce seeds and flowers,then the cycle is over,if you harvest before the cycle is over thats called premature,just like you would not want to have a baby to early, "PREMATURE" you want mature colas which you cant get unless you let the plant finish its cycle other wise its not finished,go on google and learn the cycle of the plant rather then sit here telling me stories about milky and amber trichomes,and oh yea my post,it was a joke by the way,it was aimed at those who always say,get a scope its the only way.


 
I am well aware that cannabis has been around for a very long time.

I only mentioned 500 years because you had just used 500 years in what you said. Had you said 1000years I would have said 1000 years and so on. 

My reply was to what you yourself said and not in any way any statement or claim about how long marijuana has existed. 

Joke or not you said it and you used 500 years so that is what I replied to. 

You statement about the life cycle of cannabis is a red herring. You cannot support what you claim because it is based on your personal opinions and on myths and urban legends from others so you want to blow smoke and twist and spin in hopes of finding some way to appear like you know what you are talking about. 

Cannabis grown to smoke is not grown in the same manner as cannabis grown to perpetuate plants in the wild. Many strains will not produce fully mature viable seeds in the amount of flowering time it takes to get to the point where trichomes are milky white or amber. 

That is why so much bagseed is so unreliable for growing, because the seeds were not fully mature, not viable, when it came time to harvest the plants for smoking. 

You keep comparing apples and zebras and tossing in your personal opinions based in myths and urban legends and hippie misperceptions and hope that it is accepted by those who know even less than you do but while you may very well fool them you will not fool those who know more than you know. 


I am curious, how many decades have you been growing marijuana? Is it very close to four decades as is the case with me? Are you even four decades old? Have you even grown for four whole years? I have roughly 37-years of growing under my belt. Can you match that? Can you come close to matching that?


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## t0k3s (Apr 21, 2009)

Brick Top said:


> I am well aware that cannabis has been around for a very long time.
> 
> I only mentioned 500 years because you had just used 500 years in what you said. Had you said 1000years I would have said 1000 years and so on.
> 
> ...


I have been growing for one decade,but just cause you have been growing for 4 does not mean you know better than some won else,if i want early weed from a stubborn old school guy then ill hit you upuntil then keep posting your chart.


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## Brick Top (Apr 21, 2009)

t0k3s said:


> I have been growing for one decade,but just cause you have been growing for 4 does not mean you know better than some won else,if i want early weed from a stubborn old school guy then ill hit you upuntil then keep posting your chart.


 
Again you are perpetuating the myth or urban legend that plants have their highest level of THC production when their trichomes are amber. 

That is a fallacy that you have fallen for and that you help to mislead others into believing.

Harvesting when trichomes are milky white does not equate to what you inaccurately referred to as being "early weed." That was a weak attempt to claim validity for your position and nothing more. 

It is only what you inaccurately believe to be true and nothing more. 

It is clear that you are to pigheaded and to ignorant to learn so I will no longer waste my time attempting to educate a dull normal but I most sincerely hope that not to many people are foolish enough to fall for your inaccurate advice/information because those who do not have the same personal preference/taste in what they smoke as you will suffer because of it.


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## SpruceZeus (Apr 21, 2009)

Brick Top said:


> Any information/advice, such as yours, that says "in my experience" is almost always totally wrong.
> 
> For one you said "pure-ish" and I never said anything about crosses, did I? Any time you have a cross you will have combined genetics and they will alter results. So your "pure-ish" sativas are not comparable to what I said.


Firstly, I posted that bit of information as something i had experienced. Citing evidence is something people do when they are trying to learn, or help others to learn. 
I said pure-ish, because, as you the expert should know, Pure landrace sativas are virtually unavailable to the growing public. Even if you purchase a "thai" strain from a seedbank, chances are very very stong that at some point it has been crossed to make it more stable/faster finishing/less prone to staminate growth ect. So if i said "pure" sativa i'm sure you would have jumped all over me and picked that detail to pieces.
So either way, obviously any real world practical situations are not going to apply to the things you say. Would you say that the high from an indica lasts longer than that of a sativa?





> The problem with people like yourself is you suffer from the delusion that THC levels are at their highest only when they are amber and that is a myth, an urban legend, a fallacy. It is what people who do not know the chemistry and biology of marijuana plants believe because certain effects seem to be more potent to them. ...


 
Fuck you! Don't put words in my mouth.
The problem with people like yourself is that they're always presuming things about people like myself.
Did I once claim that pure amber trichomes have the highest level of THC? Or for that matter claim that THC alone is what is responsable for a good high?



> only the ignorant truly believe that equates to an increased level of THC. IT is only an increase in the effects they prefer.


I can agree with you there! 
But you're assuming that increased levels of THC are the end all be all of being high. Go inject some pure THC and see where that gets you



> That is the whole point to what I have said all along and that is each individual should harvest when the trichome color will give them the effects they most like.


And my whole point is that there is more to the picture than just the colour of your trichs.




> Why is it that you cannot understand and accept such an extremely simple concept?


Again, Fuck You!!!
You're trying to belittle me to make me seem wrong, but instead you're coming off as defensive and petty.
I understand just fine, I just feel that you're taking the wrong approach to things and being misleading.



> As for misleading newbs it is people like you who tell them to harvest when their crops will best fit *YOUR* personal preference rather then schooling them in how things work and then allowing *THEM* to decide for themselves when is the proper time to harvest so *THEY* end up with what *THEY* will like the most instead of what *YOU* would like the most.


 and what are you doing?


> As for your claim about seeing amber and cloudy trichomes after only 3-weeks of flowering, well I began growing roughly 37-years ago and I have never so much as one single time seen that happen. I can only believe that you are attempting to manufacture "evidence" to support your position.


Maybe you should pay attention to your plants. 
I'm not manufacturing anything. Only sharing my own experiences, rather than copy+pasting straight from conflicting sources and trying to come off as some fucking plant scientist.
Usually experience humbles people when they realise how much they truly don't know, but it seems like you're pretty convinced you know it all. So good luck with that buddy.
I'm gonna enjoy a nice bowl of my "degraded garbage". It smells like stawberrys. Interesting that some of the most dynamic terpenoid production happens during the "downslope", making for some real funky, amazing (ohh subjective, how unscientific of me) smelling weed. (or my weed maybe smells that way from all the THCV?  hmm?)

Peace and happy growing.


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## Brick Top (Apr 21, 2009)

Picture 1 








Picture 2 








Picture 3 



 


[SIZE=+1]Trichomes[/SIZE] 

Trichomes are small appendages that look like hairs. They are produced by marijuana, and other plants. Female marijuana plants produce certain trichomes that are a rich source of THC. These trichomes can be found in their largest concentration on the buds. They start out clear, turn a milky color, then turn amber (light brown). 

The trichomes in picture 1 are clear. After the plant has flowered for a few weeks, the trichomes start to turn a milky color (picture 2). After a few more weeks, they will be totally milky in color. In the later stages of flowering, trichomes will turn to a light brown color (picture 3). The amount of time required to get to this point depends on the marijuana strain and the growing conditions. 

In picture 2 you can see the stems have started to turn from a clear color to a milky translucent color. For maximum THC content and a more cerebral and energetic high, harvest your plants when a majority of the trichomes on the plants in your garden are a fully milky translucent color. 

You can wait until most of the trichomes have started to turn amber, but the resulting marijuana will produce more of a sleepy body stone than it would if plants were harvested earlier. The trichome in picture 3 is about 90% amber, with just a trace of the milky translucent color it previously possessed.


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## t0k3s (Apr 21, 2009)

Brick Top said:


> Picture 1
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hahah only thing you know is colors,you can see changes in all 3 pictures that has nothing to do with colors yet you didn't even point it out,so much for 4 decades of nothing


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## malbulja (Apr 21, 2009)

t0k3s said:


> if i want early weed from a stubborn old school guy then ill hit you upuntil then keep posting your chart.


hahahahaha... phew, that was so funny it hurts.


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## PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1 (Apr 21, 2009)

malbulja said:


> hahahahaha... phew, that was so funny it hurts.[/quote] Brick Top is Right, I don't even get What your argument is? It just seems Your trying to push everyone into becoming immobilized Zombies, while someone else likes to be functional and creative, It is a science and the knowledge is out there, Not all here! Brick Top is right.


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## malbulja (Apr 21, 2009)

PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1 said:


> malbulja said:
> 
> 
> > hahahahaha... phew, that was so funny it hurts.[/quote] Brick Top is Right, I don't even get What your argument is? It just seems Your trying to push everyone into becoming immobilized Zombies, while someone else likes to be functional and creative, It is a science and the knowledge is out there, Not all here! Brick Top is right.
> ...


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## PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1 (Apr 21, 2009)

I read The whole thead That's why I posted, He Gave out a ton of accurate information and pics. The original poster said he did not want Couchlock, So why would he Ripen, the shit out Plant, Hairs don't mean nothing, Trichomes Do. Maybe You need to Re-Read between the Lines.


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## malbulja (Apr 21, 2009)

PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1 said:


> I read The whole thead That's why I posted, He Gave out a ton of accurate information and pics. The original poster said he did not want Couchlock, So why would he Ripen, the shit out Plant, Hairs don't mean nothing, Trichomes Do. Maybe You need to Re-Read between the Lines.


No, if he doesn't want couch-lock THEN HE NEEDS TO GROW A SATIVA. That's the point to the thread. There are different phenotypes of the cannabis plant and pretending that you can make an Indica plant smoke like a sativa by harvesting early (pre-amber) trichs is whats at issue. If you harvest a plant during the milky white growth phase then you're harvesting a pre-mature plant.


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## SpruceZeus (Apr 21, 2009)

COPY+PASTE FTW!

Okay, now stop being smart for a second and think.



> I'm a new grower and i've been reading all this great information about when its time to harvest. Theres pictures and everything!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That plant is 4 weeks into 12/12. Granted not all of the trichomes are that far along. And most people arent going to harvest weed that looks like this. But my point with this is that you have to look at the big picture. Stop being so scientific and start being practical.
I'm not anti knowledge, i just cant stand these "rules" that more often than not lead people down the wrong path.
Lets cut through the bullshit and spread good information in a way that is not so absoloute. Or at very least explain the growth stages of cannabis making sure to mention that the pistils should have receded back into the bud before you chop. Regardless of trichome colour.


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## t0k3s (Apr 21, 2009)

SpruceZeus said:


> COPY+PASTE FTW!
> 
> Okay, now stop being smart for a second and think.
> 
> ...


I have said almost the same thing in so many threads then the kids start flaming me for telling the person they should let their buds be ripe when they harvest,isnt that the whole point grow it till its ripe then pick it just like fruit,if you pick it early its bitter,same concept,some strains turn amber in 4 weeks yet the trichomes are still forming and the plant still growing and boom,they chop that shit down ,that trichome chart is turning everybodys grow fucky


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## malbulja (Apr 21, 2009)

t0k3s said:


> I have said almost the same thing in so many threads then the kids start flaming me for telling the person they should let their buds be ripe when they harvest,isnt that the whole point grow it till its ripe then pick it just like fruit,if you pick it early its bitter,same concept,some strains turn amber in 4 weeks yet the trichomes are still forming and the plant still growing and boom,they chop that shit down ,that trichome chart is turning everybodys grow fucky


You know heres the worst part of all this. If you're one of the people that love that Sativa mind rush high and you listen to the folks on RIU and they keep pulling out 10 year old charts from the old GrowFAQ then you're going to ruin your Sativa because you're going to harvest it way too early because everyone keeps saying that milky white trichomes are what giives you the fast, energetic high!

A Sativa is a Sativa, an Indica is an Indica, and a hybrid is a hybrid. Harvesting them pre-mature isn't going to change these facts.


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## mr.red (Apr 21, 2009)

Wow, haha.

I agree, if you want to get high smoke a sativa, indica for a stone.

I will admit that I grow mostly indica and rarely grow a sativa, but i would like everyone to grow two plants of each.

Harvest one of the sativas when you think the trichomes are ready and the other when the plant is actually ripe

same with the indica.

then you will understand the difference.

sure if you got stuck with an indica and only like a rush.

harvest early

get a headache.


if not sit back and relax people.

oh and just so you know

copy and pasting does not make you smarter

neither does decades of growing


that is like saying that i have been baking for 50 years, therefore i know what i am talking about

when in reality you suck shit at baking


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## t0k3s (Apr 21, 2009)

mr.red said:


> Wow, haha.
> 
> I agree, if you want to get high smoke a sativa, indica for a stone.
> 
> ...


Its about time some real growers came in


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## mr.red (Apr 21, 2009)

We like to hide

or grow..

usually we are smoking though


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## t0k3s (Apr 21, 2009)

mr.red said:


> We like to hide
> 
> or grow..
> 
> usually we are smoking though


That's why i have the bong right next to me


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## PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1 (Apr 22, 2009)

Your all Right, HARVEST no Kind before it's Time! But when The Glands start to rupture or break off it turns into Cannabinol (CBN) Fucking DeadBeat Shit, I Like THC The High, Each Plant has to offer. Your Right a Indica Is Stonier and Sativa Trippy by nature, But if you fuck up a lot of varibles,,,Growth, Handeling,ieg Rupturing the THC glands you will end up with more Garbage (CBN) meaning a Deadbeat Couchlock fucked up lazzy High, No matter Indica or Sativa. Fuck Testing the Leaves,,Test THE BUD,,,I smoke Bud, not Leaves! or are you saying you don't need a Scope?


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## malbulja (Apr 22, 2009)

PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1 said:


> or are you saying you don't need a Scope?


YES, thats exactly what's being said.


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## Droxster (Apr 22, 2009)

lol im learning so much


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## t0k3s (Apr 22, 2009)

Droxster said:


> lol im learning so much


welcome to RIU,that's good just filter out the BS


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## northsidenovis (Apr 22, 2009)

choice guys a bit of humor all good ha ha keep up the bitch fighting 
if you been baking for 50 years you'd think u'd have a bit of an idea on whats good and whats not!!!
just like growing bud for 40 years in that amount of time & with that sort of experience even the worst grower out has to have a good clue as to what works and what dosent how many years you been growing ??? I bet in another 20 - 30 years you would have more knowledge than you do today? no matter how extencive your knowledge base is right now the experience will definetly make a difference no m,atter who you are keep up the bitch slaps yeah!!!
Howzit all from NZ


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## mr. green thumb 01 (Apr 25, 2009)

The hairs are receding to the flower on the main cola but not the whole plant. Took a sample dried it for a week and it was diggidy dank the hairs were about 90% red and its official when almost all the hairs are all red and receding to the flower its ready. You shouldn't have to poke all ur flowers with a scope and take all the trichs off to c if there ripe..


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## t0k3s (Apr 25, 2009)

mr. green thumb 01 said:


> The hairs are receding to the flower on the main cola but not the whole plant. Took a sample dried it for a week and it was diggidy dank the hairs were about 90% red and its official when almost all the hairs are all red and receding to the flower its ready. You shouldn't have to poke all ur flowers with a scope and take all the trichs off to c if there ripe..


They should look something like this.


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## fdd2blk (Apr 25, 2009)

nice pictures.


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## t0k3s (Apr 25, 2009)

fdd2blk said:


> nice pictures.


It's the only non premature one i can find I lost all my pictures last year


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## rollingotties (Apr 26, 2009)

so tok3s, just wondering, when you harvested and your plant had this look, was it just the main cola that had the "glow" or did you wait for the entire plant to have the same look? b/c the way my plants are coming along, the main cola is maturing faster than the rest of the plant.....


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## t0k3s (Apr 26, 2009)

rollingotties said:


> so tok3s, just wondering, when you harvested and your plant had this look, was it just the main cola that had the "glow" or did you wait for the entire plant to have the same look? b/c the way my plants are coming along, the main cola is maturing faster than the rest of the plant.....


That's not uncommon,some people chop the top and let the rest finish some dont,its all preference on that part,but as long as you let them get ripe before you chop them all its all good.


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## DaMidnightToker (Aug 24, 2009)

So, my top cola has started to foxtail, creating more pistils. Before this about 80-90% hairs were orange, but now it looks like the the top cola "rebooted" lol . What should I do?


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## il3fe (Aug 27, 2009)

mr.red said:


> We like to hide
> 
> or grow..
> 
> usually we are smoking though


...whether it be hydro,

maybe an organic grow

only the dankest buds fa sho'


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## stonesour (Apr 19, 2010)

Wow, read through the whole thread. Here is my take on this whole debate. A mature and harvest ready plant is dependant on several factors and not just one. I have two indica plants and two hybrids. If I havest them now (70% Cloudy) than they are not at their full potential. A hybrid is going to have a good mixture of THC and CBN and for that mixture to be apparent in the high it has to be mature. Pistols, Trichomes, leaves, the whole picture is how to judge when its ready, not just one thing. At least that is how im going to havest and my opinion on the whole thing.


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## Brick Top (Apr 19, 2010)

malbulja said:


> A Sativa is a Sativa, an Indica is an Indica, and a hybrid is a hybrid. Harvesting them pre-mature isn't going to change these facts.



A sativa is a sativa and an indica is an indica and a hybrid is a hybrid but you can slightly fine tune the high each one gets according to when you harvest, and harvesting them late will not increase the level of THC. 

It will decrease levels of THC through oxidation, something that can be visibly seen occurring as resin-heads turn cloudy and amber. When that begins THC ages and breaks down, this process is known as oxidization. High levels of CBN tend to make the user feel messed up rather than high. Most people confuse increased levels of CBN for higher levels of CBD. 

As I have said for years, if someone wants a body stone, a couch-lock effect, pick genetics that are high in THC and high in CBD but low in CBN and then do not harvest them to late, as in when amber when you have lost THC to oxidation. 

A sativa, a true sativa and not the various crosses most people consider to be sativas today, run ahead of the standard charts for maturity. A sativa with mostly clear trichome-heads with an every so slight beginning of cloudy has hit its maximum levels of THC and is already beginning to lost THC through oxidation. I say clear but some true sativas will not have totally clear trichomes at any point, they will begin as slightly yellow.

Gland color will vary with ripeness of the individual THC glands, starting at clear, turning to milky, then turning to an amber color. There may be some exceptions, such as some of the Blue strains and Blackberry. These will have darker, sometimes purple gland heads. But by far and large, these three steps of ripeness will exist with the vast majority of strains on the market. 

The first stage, clear, will tend to make for a more cerebral, up high, with very little body effect. Harvesting at this stage when little if any trichomes are milky yet, can be tricky. Harvesting too early can make for a beautiful plant that will not have much psychoactive capability! THC needs to "mature" to be able to pass its psychoactive capabilities down to the smoker. This is why I always recommend waiting until 50% of the trichomes hit the second stage: milky or creamy. At this point, you will definitely have a plant which has reached its genetic potential.

The milky trichomes have some "cerebral" qualities, as well as some of the more "physical" characteristics of the high. The last stage, amber, brings on a more sedative, physical stone. If this is what you're looking for, than I would recommend a sativa/indica cross, or an indica dominant plant. Amber trichomes seem to ruin a sativa high if the plant goes too long. 

Many times you'll read from new growers, "My hairs are 50% changed to brown or red, looks like its ready to come down." Calyx hairs turning color is one thing, calyx hairs withering, is another. When they have withered, they are for the most part, as ripe as they will get. But just turning red/brown does not necessarily mean the plant is ready. Calyx hairs are just an indicator that the plant is ripening, not necessarily ripe yet. I have taken full Indica strains with 60% hairs turned, and sativas when 90% hairs have turned, and they were all at peak ripeness. The trichome color is the only true indicator!

When using a magnifying glass or loupe to determine ripeness, youre examining the resin glands on the buds for signs of maturity and/or decay. During flowering, these glands start out small and increase in size as they fill with resin. As they near maturity, the head of the gland will begin to expand and it will start to look like a tiny mushroom. 

*This is the first sign that theyre nearing the point of diminishing returns. This is the point at which production of fresh THC laden resin has slowed and is equal to the rate of decay of THC into CBN.*



*The decay of THC is accompanied by a change in the color of the resin from clear to amber. This is the other sign of ripeness that can only be determined by magnification. What youre looking for is the point at which the production of fresh resin is still just barely outpacing the decay. *

You said; "A Sativa is a Sativa, an Indica is an Indica, and a hybrid is a hybrid. Harvesting them pre-mature isn't going to change these facts." Well that is not totally true, people do it every day in reverse by following advice like you give, let it mature more so harvest late .... and the result or doing so alter their product. It works the same either way but you wrongly call harvesting at the prime time harvesting early. 

Allowing a plant to flower longer is not the only way to assure higher levels of psychoactive THC. Regardless of trichome color a fair amount of THC is not in a psychoactive form at harvest. That is why curing is done, to allow all the THC to become fully psychoactive. 

You do not have to flower plants to long and lose THC through oxidation to achieve fully psychoactive THC. Even then not all THC would be psychoactive, a cure would still be needed to make the most of the then lesser amount of THC plants would have if flowered to long.

For all those who were unlucky enough to come along after the age of real pot, the true sativa age, and were fooled into thinking that indicas/predominantly indicas are great, well then if that is what you like purchase genetics with high levels of THC and CBD and low levels of CBN and do not flower to long and give up THC for CBN thinking that you are getting higher levels of both THC and CBD. 

It just doesn't work that way.


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## potsmokinsumbitch (Jun 25, 2010)

malbulja said:


> I like sprinkles on my tricone...


 Wrong answer. What is a tricone ??

A tricone is what happens when a cone head has baby who has been exposed to radiation


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## potsmokinsumbitch (Jun 25, 2010)

Brick Top said:


> A sativa is a sativa and an indica is an indica and a hybrid is a hybrid but you can slightly fine tune the high each one gets according to when you harvest, and harvesting them late will not increase the level of THC.
> 
> It will decrease levels of THC through oxidation, something that can be visibly seen occurring as resin-heads turn cloudy and amber. When that begins THC ages and breaks down, this process is known as oxidization. High levels of CBN tend to make the user feel messed up rather than high. Most people confuse increased levels of CBN for higher levels of CBD.
> 
> ...


 Hey brick you are the master paster lol paste us sum more good info. I take it you have no social life and are smoking a joint right now as always lmao. Keep tokin dude.


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## buster7467 (Jun 26, 2010)

t0k3s said:


> They should look something like this.


 
Do you remember just how many weeks into flowering this plant was in the pic. And in your experience, when a certain strain is listed to finish in 8wks at the seed shop. Have you had any get really finished in 8wks or is it really closer to 10wks to get it to really finish?


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## ubermench (Oct 4, 2010)

buster7467 said:


> Do you remember just how many weeks into flowering this plant was in the pic. And in your experience, when a certain strain is listed to finish in 8wks at the seed shop. Have you had any get really finished in 8wks or is it really closer to 10wks to get it to really finish?


believe it or not trhere are very good strains which finish in just 6 weeks.i myself bred dutch passion passion 1 x white widow and i got a 6 wk finish(from passion1 18%thc) and the white widow finished in about 8-9 wks.the taste is outstanding,lemony in fall harvest and spicey and gourgious buds in the spring harvest,i start my plants in the house for 60 days in veg at 20 hour per day light,when i place them outside they instantly go to bud.i have no idea why anyone would use ruderalis when my method works so easily to autoflower any damn time i choose!but ya their are alot of strains that really are 8 weeks or less


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## guy incognito (Oct 4, 2010)

my internet dick is bigger than everyones


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## thedude27 (Oct 5, 2010)

Unless the new growers guide has new infomation contrary to this, I have to go with Ed Rosenthall, Mel Frank and the old guy on this one. The fact that they have THC degradation time tables from labs would suggest to me that they have actual research to support their conclusions.

Does anyone have real, actual research on this. IE you took samples and performed chromotography from the same plant and bud at both points in time? Or are we just making stuff up?

BTW I have been waiting to hear this new theory defended so I'm interested in the outcome.


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## SnYpAChronic (Sep 3, 2011)

i just pulled a bud 6 weeks 4 days in dried it and it was insanley head and body high the degrading of thc i dont know but i read a hightimes book a while ago and it reffered to the tricome mushroom heads exploding resulting in lower thc??........that being a lady done a docco in amsterdam was injected with both pure thc and pure cannaboids or something like that and the results if my memroy can recall was the thc made her very depressed and not happy and the cannaboids gave a very strong happy high dunno if this helps ....


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## k0ijn (Sep 3, 2011)

stonesour said:


> Wow, read through the whole thread. Here is my take on this whole debate. A mature and harvest ready plant is dependant on several factors and not just one. I have two indica plants and two hybrids. If I havest them now (70% Cloudy) than they are not at their full potential. A hybrid is going to have a good mixture of THC and CBN and for that mixture to be apparent in the high it has to be mature. Pistols, Trichomes, leaves, the whole picture is how to judge when its ready, not just one thing. At least that is how im going to havest and my opinion on the whole thing.


I wouldn't go that far.
Some people prefer a more head-high.
Which is what you would get at 70% cloudy.
I don't think the THC will be too low if there are 70% cloudy trichs, however I do not know the strain.

I know people who have harvested 30% cloudy, ended up with about 50-60% cloudy and that was some really good bud the smoked well and the high lasted quite a while.
If they had waited for more amber trichs and perhaps 100% cloudy I'm not sure I would've liked the smoke.

Again though, it's a judgement call and personal preference call


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## k0ijn (Sep 3, 2011)

thedude27 said:


> Unless the new growers guide has new infomation contrary to this, I have to go with Ed Rosenthall, Mel Frank and the old guy on this one. The fact that they have THC degradation time tables from labs would suggest to me that they have actual research to support their conclusions.
> 
> Does anyone have real, actual research on this. IE you took samples and performed chromotography from the same plant and bud at both points in time? Or are we just making stuff up?
> 
> BTW I have been waiting to hear this new theory defended so I'm interested in the outcome.



I have a friend who is doing a variation of this as we speak.
It's going to take months to get answers though, but there seems to be a connection.


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## er0senin (Apr 17, 2012)

And your friends test showed that...? The problem with no correct information ever being shared must be that whenever someone get it right they probably are to far up among the clouds to write it down or even remember it T_T


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## k0ijn (Apr 18, 2012)

er0senin said:


> And your friends test showed that...? The problem with no correct information ever being shared must be that whenever someone get it right they probably are to far up among the clouds to write it down or even remember it T_T


This is an old thread.

My friend does not own his own lab and therefore does not have a chromatography machine.
What I ment by a variation was that my friend was conducting experiments in his own home.
I'm not sure what you mean by tests, he did not perform a scientific study.

If you are looking for a concise collection of information regarding cannabinoids, the states of trichomes and how they affect the high I would suggest you read this:

https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/516184-trichomes-harvesting.html


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## ubermench (May 8, 2012)

in the 1970's cannabolic acid was all we new about besides thc.cbn&cbd are cannabolic acids.we used to make hash oil from boiling (refluxing) weed in various alcohols.which destroyed the active thc,but turned the into active cannabolic acids in the form of a isomer of delta 9 thc.it produced an almost opioid high. but now in our neo expertise we love to over complicate harvest time selection.depending on strain .harvesting when the pistols are between 50% to 80% dried and changed color.the stoner/hippy way never fails! there are undoubtedly many cannabiniods we've yet to discover and fully understand there role in the overall high of a given weed. so for now sticking to tried and true methods works fine! happy trails


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## CisGreen (Jun 3, 2012)

t0k3s. I joined this site just to reply to this old thread and your incorrect comments. 

*YOU DO NOT WANT TO WAIT UNTIL MOSTLY AMBER! THIS IS RIDICULOUS AMATEUR TALK. **

You never want to wait until fully amber, or even half. THC IS 90% DEGRADED at the very beginning of the amber stage. The PEAK of THC is BEFORE fully cloudy trichomes, fully cloudy trichs are past peak THC. Don't you know this? Amazing, this is growing 101 stuff here. You are proof positive the number of posts a user has here has no relation to intelligence. Not only do MOST medical growers harvest BEFORE amber, but HighTimes and other marijuana growing publications have had numerous "experts" come out and say "less amber is better". No matter if you want the head or body high, it's about PEAK THC. So in the reality of growers who KNOW how to grow, the BEST TIME, or the actual "mature" time is BEFORE ambers set in. *

*Everything YOU say is opinion, facts are in books. You may be a Veteran Smoker, but Veteran grower you are not. If I'm not banned here I'll GLADLY put up ANY of my grow journals against ANY of yours*. *You should of listened to Brick Top*, *he is much more informed then you will ever be. Maybe you have changed since 2009. Come reply back if you dare, I'll school you 1-2-3. *


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## er0senin (Jul 2, 2012)

Thx for the read


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## ShittyBill (Feb 24, 2013)

Old thread but i'd like to see them journals CIsGreen


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## Vet1620 (Sep 15, 2017)

I'm so happy I found this thread, I was so close to harvesting way to early on my Afghan Kush. It's my first year growing period. You all are very knowledgeable and glad I came across this !


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## CB7guy (Feb 6, 2018)

anybody seen brick top


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## Lucky Luke (Feb 6, 2018)

CB7guy said:


> anybody seen brick top


I don't think he has been on RIU for a long long time, shame as I enjoyed his posts.


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## CB7guy (Feb 7, 2018)

Lucky Luke said:


> I don't think he has been on RIU for a long long time, shame as I enjoyed his posts.


its crazy to read old post and even some newer treads , just to see the hate and misinformation. and now yaers later we have more science to back alot up with


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