# My First Vert



## JDMase (Apr 15, 2017)

Hey guys, some of you might have seen my grow journal, going to continue it here where I can focus on a trellis grow, and get some tips and advice. 

My trellis is on the way and I'll be hanging a 600w HPS in the middle of my 1mx1mx2m tent. The trellis will be on the back, left and right hand side walls and I'll tie each to said trellis as it grows. 

My first question is: how should I train my plants from now on? 

I have hit around 8 weeks on my two biggest (kings Kush the tallest at around 2ft, and my small black dog kush on the right) and I don't know whether to top or anything? 

Strains at around 5 weeks include tangie, candy kush, Pineapple Express and grapefruit krush. 

Thanks!


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## JDMase (Apr 16, 2017)

What're your thoughts @ttystikk ?

My variance in plant size but my desire to switch them to flower asap, how should I proceed?


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Apr 16, 2017)

i don't have a lot of experience at this myself, but i do have a lot of interest and have been reading up and watching what other people have been doing for a while now.
i'd say its time to get your plants involved with your screen , you want them to start growing in towards the light asap, all the growth they've done in the other direction is already wasted effort. i'f you're going to top them, do it now and give them at least a week to get over it before you flip them to 12/12.
don't know if you've only got the one area, if you have a separate veg and flower area, i'd leave the smaller ones to veg a while longer before i flipped them, but get them growing into the screen as soon as you get it


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## Stroker (Apr 16, 2017)

Wrong vert= RIP Dave Mirra


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## JDMase (Apr 16, 2017)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> i don't have a lot of experience at this myself, but i do have a lot of interest and have been reading up and watching what other people have been doing for a while now.
> i'd say its time to get your plants involved with your screen , you want them to start growing in towards the light asap, all the growth they've done in the other direction is already wasted effort. i'f you're going to top them, do it now and give them at least a week to get over it before you flip them to 12/12.
> don't know if you've only got the one area, if you have a separate veg and flower area, i'd leave the smaller ones to veg a while longer before i flipped them, but get them growing into the screen as soon as you get it


Yep! I agree. The screen comes in two days and I'll be bending that big girl right in there. 

Im also awaiting my smaller tent to arrive which I'll put my smaller ones in to continue veg under the 315w CMH.


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## ttystikk (Apr 16, 2017)

The advice given seems sound.


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## JDMase (Apr 16, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> The advice given seems sound.


Thanks for your input & inspiration


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## JDMase (Apr 25, 2017)

Sorry for the quality but here we go, Kings kush tied back against a trellis, it's about a metre tall and ive got a metre in width too, veg is just over 2 months now. 

Ive got it with a 600w HPS hung vertically but ive not got a bulb holder without a wing attached. Ive just bent the wing right back which is actually good for when I wanna go in there as im not using the front wall anyway. 


Still under veg time schedule at the moment but I'll switch to flower soon, although Id really like to fill the full 2metres tall. The stretch im anticipating is around 30%. 


Should I flip yet or fill the full height?


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Apr 25, 2017)

flip before you think it'll fill your area, if you let it grow to the top then flip, its gonna grow past your trellis


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## JDMase (Apr 25, 2017)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> flip before you think it'll fill your area, if you let it grow to the top then flip, its gonna grow past your trellis


Good point, I have a black dog set up opposite which is around half the size, would've liked them to of been at the same stage before the flip, but it's lagging and I am too excited to try them


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## JDMase (Apr 26, 2017)

Some lights off picthres, can see my kings Kush on the left wall, black dog on the right. A auto candy kush that I didn't realise was an auto, which started to flower whilst still in its 3" starter cube! I put it in the 6 inch Hugo and hoped for the best but it looks like that's going to be a micro plant lol. 

You can see my light set up too, not ideal but will do for now. Struggling with temps so my tent door is always open during lights on. Still hitting temps of 28c +. Not sure how to fix it. 

Still have them on a veg cycle whilst I figure out where to put the candy kush and the other photo I couldn't fit in my small tent for now.


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## gr865 (Apr 26, 2017)

JDM

I might make a suggestion here if you don't mind.
First, remove the bulb from the wing or buy you a fixture for bare bulb.
Second, you should hang your filter and exhaust fan at the top of the tent, the way it is setup not you have to pull the hot air back down around your plant before it is sucked into the filter. That should help with your heat problems.
Third, you can, if the plants are ready for flower, block up the shorter plants to match the height of the tallest. I have had to do that when doing multiple strains.

 

Hey man this is just my observations, I could be off base for what your plans are, but that is what I would do.

GR


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## JDMase (Apr 26, 2017)

gr865 said:


> JDM
> 
> I might make a suggestion here if you don't mind.
> First, remove the bulb from the wing or buy you a fixture for bare bulb.
> ...


Really great suggestions. The Wing I thought I could "wing it" (haha). But until I get paid Friday ive got no money to get a new bulb holder Without the wing connected to it. 

Im glad you mentioned that about the fan. Unfortunately I already tried but the supplied cable and plug is very short, impossible for me to place it anywhere else unless I either 1, rewire it with a longer cable or 2, flip the fan and place it outside the tent so it sucks the air out. Im not sure if that would be good to do with the carbon filter though? Any thoughts? 

I like how you block up the plants, something I may do, currently I would just be flowering the two that are on each walls, the others will come out, I may just bias the bulb to be between them both? So the smaller one would have the top beaches closest to the bulb and the taller plant have the light closer to the mid to bottom braches, do you think that would be ok to do or not??


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## coreywebster (Apr 26, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Really great suggestions. The Wing I thought I could "wing it" (haha). But until I get paid Friday ive got no money to get a new bulb holder Without the wing connected to it.
> 
> Im glad you mentioned that about the fan. Unfortunately I already tried but the supplied cable and plug is very short, impossible for me to place it anywhere else unless I either 1, rewire it with a longer cable or 2, flip the fan and place it outside the tent so it sucks the air out. Im not sure if that would be good to do with the carbon filter though? Any thoughts?
> 
> I like how you block up the plants, something I may do, currently I would just be flowering the two that are on each walls, the others will come out, I may just bias the bulb to be between them both? So the smaller one would have the top beaches closest to the bulb and the taller plant have the light closer to the mid to bottom braches, do you think that would be ok to do or not??


Take the reflector apart, its just a couple of nuts and bolts? Should be able to use that part of the bulb holder as a hanging devise.

Use an extension cord for the fan? Or take one apart and rewire using the longer wire or butcher what you can salvage together using connector blocks which are pence each. Wire costs about £1.20 a meter at wilkco or BnQ.
You can have the fan outside with filter inside if that's easier to do.

Also put your thermometer out of direct light. You might find its not as hot as it appears.

Nice mesh.. I have some of the same. Yet to use it but the spacing looked good when I bought it.


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## 420producer (Apr 26, 2017)

now what is holding up your trellis? the plant .? or is it connected to something else. thanks,


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## gr865 (Apr 26, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Take the reflector apart, its just a couple of nuts and bolts? Should be able to use that part of the bulb holder as a hanging devise.
> 
> Use an extension cord for the fan? Or take one apart and rewire using the longer wire or butcher what you can salvage together using connector blocks which are pence each. Wire costs about £1.20 a meter at wilkco or BnQ.
> You can have the fan outside with filter inside if that's easier to do.
> ...


What he says, 

Is there no way for you to hang the fan and filter at the top of the tent similar to what I did, you are really recirculating the hot air back down around the plants.

GR


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## JDMase (Apr 26, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Take the reflector apart, its just a couple of nuts and bolts? Should be able to use that part of the bulb holder as a hanging devise.
> 
> Use an extension cord for the fan? Or take one apart and rewire using the longer wire or butcher what you can salvage together using connector blocks which are pence each. Wire costs about £1.20 a meter at wilkco or BnQ.
> You can have the fan outside with filter inside if that's easier to do.
> ...


Appears that the wing itself is pop riveted on, would need a drill to get it off that way, if I unscrewed the holder itself then Id need to re solder the wires and ive got no soldering iron and if im honest ive never done it before! Heard it's pretty easy though. 

I've already got it plugged in to an extension multiplug, I don't want to daisy chain another extension cord into it ive always been told that's bad news haha. 

That might be the best route if im honest - new cord or extending the current one. 

Yeah ive got two temperature gauges, the one on the fan and the one on the wall in the shade, both seem to tell the same story but the plants don't look too bad, compared to my veg tent with a CMH in, those two look stressed to fuck. This old 5" "vents TT" fan sucks. When I get some cash I'll get another rhino one, that thing is really worth the money with the thermostatic option. 


Yeah the mesh was 15 quid off eBay, can't complain other than the fact I Ordered 5 metres when I needed 6. Was defo high when I clicked buy it now lol


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## JDMase (Apr 26, 2017)

Poor tangie and Pineapple Express. 

Got some clones too that are suffering. My gf accidentally smashed my CFL as we were setting it up.. She felt terrible haha.


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## JDMase (Apr 26, 2017)

Also - not to mention that I had power cuts not too long ago making my lights intermittently turn off and on throughout the night, the CMH has a 15 minute buffer before it can turn back on, the HPS doesn't so I think that may be why they're looking really stressed too, but mainly the heat and light intensity is way too high.


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## JDMase (Apr 26, 2017)

420producer said:


> now what is holding up your trellis? the plant .? or is it connected to something else. thanks,


So I had the idea of using cable ties attached to the bars at the top of the tent which add rigidity, the ones you can move. Then at the bottom ive just tied some more to the tent frame, seems to work nicely.


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## JDMase (Apr 26, 2017)

gr865 said:


> What he says,
> 
> Is there no way for you to hang the fan and filter at the top of the tent similar to what I did, you are really recirculating the hot air back down around the plants.
> 
> GR


Yeah im struggling to say the least! I think once it's in the air my heat issues may be remedied. Is it even possible to have an extraction fan dump the air from the tent out into said room, and there be only a small difference in inner and outer temps? (does this make sense? I just smoked a doob and I feel im rambling)


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## gr865 (Apr 26, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Y Is it even possible to have an extraction fan dump the air from the tent out into said room, and there be only a small difference in inner and outer temps? (does this make sense? I just smoked a doob and I feel im rambling)


Why dump the air back into the room your pulling from? I believe you will still be looking at heat issues and add some humidity issues as well.
Just raise your fan and filter, you will be ok. I like to say solve the first problem first before you change things that my contribute to more problems.

GR


I intake from one room in the house and exhaust to my garage.


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## JDMase (Apr 27, 2017)

gr865 said:


> Why dump the air back into the room your pulling from? I believe you will still be looking at heat issues and add some humidity issues as well.
> Just raise your fan and filter, you will be ok. I like to say solve the first problem first before you change things that my contribute to more problems.
> 
> GR
> ...


It's not ideal but i can't actually do it any other way, my place doesn't have windows... Crazy right?! I just have some small doors which I keep open almost all the time in order to get my fresh air in, and keep temps reasonable.. If I were to move my tent closer to said doors you'd be able to see the tent from the building opposite or the car park below. It's a damn nightmare. Were I to try and intake or exhaust air from said doors Id be looking at maybe 10 metres for each one. I think that would substantially lower the efficiency of each fan im running. 

I need a new grow space..


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## coreywebster (Apr 27, 2017)

JDMase, yeah I hear you on the extension cord daisy chaining, I wouldn't do it with lights but with fans its very low wattage, I have done it in all my grow rooms. Like I say just never with lights.

As for extraction, do you not have a chimney breast in the room? Even if its go no vents in it will of had somewhere. In my room I took out the old vent and made it bigger to put the extraction into, then I have an 8" hole in the chimney at the other side of the breast which goes all the way to the basement, I was going to use an intake fan but its passive at the moe and works well.
Anyhow maybe this isn't possible in the house you have.

Just to point out too, a filter on the floor as said will pull hot air down but it will also pull air in from the easiest place which is the open tent doors or vents at the lower part of the tent. So essentially most of your heat is rising and staying there building up.

Get that fan and filter moved sunshine, an extension cord is really just a long wire divided by a plug with pins to connect the electricity, as long as your not pumping 600w through it theres no reason for it to overheat at all. We are talking about one fan.

The only other option if the girls are getting stressed is less wattage in light. Plants would probably produce better with less wattage if they are happy than with more wattage and stressed constantly.

Good luck with it, fingers crossed you get them temps down.

Edit, JD I just reread your earlier posts, I confused where you said plants were stressed in veg and not so much in flower tent. If temps high point is 82.4f (28C) your not doing to bad.
It used to be folks would say 78-82 was optimum(20years ago) now I see folk having a panic at 82degrees, not sure why. Anyhow, it may not be perfect but should be fine. Still get that fan and filter raised though ey.


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## JDMase (Apr 27, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> JDMase, yeah I hear you on the extension cord daisy chaining, I wouldn't do it with lights but with fans its very low wattage, I have done it in all my grow rooms. Like I say just never with lights.
> 
> As for extraction, do you not have a chimney breast in the room? Even if its go no vents in it will of had somewhere. In my room I took out the old vent and made it bigger to put the extraction into, then I have an 8" hole in the chimney at the other side of the breast which goes all the way to the basement, I was going to use an intake fan but its passive at the moe and works well.
> Anyhow maybe this isn't possible in the house you have.
> ...


Will do! Good hustle on keeping up with my Kush induced rambles. I am gonna get that fan up in the air in the big flower tent, the small tent I gave up on, the cheap extractor fan wasnt helping the CMH cool a 60x60x140cm tent barely at all, the plants in there shrivelled within a day. Will get a Low watt cfl for that.

The only reason I say 28c is bad in the big tent is because that's the coolest the tent is with lights on, with the tent open I'll hit peaks of 32-33c, with the tent door shut I'll be hitting 40c.

Always waiting on pay day though, only another 24hours and I can hopefully buy all the things I need. Whoever said this was cheap and easy was wrong haha.


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## coreywebster (Apr 27, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Will do! Good hustle on keeping up with my Kush induced rambles. I am gonna get that fan up in the air in the big flower tent, the small tent I gave up on, the cheap extractor fan wasnt helping the CMH cool a 60x60x140cm tent barely at all, the plants in there shrivelled within a day. Will get a Low watt cfl for that.
> 
> The only reason I say 28c is bad in the big tent is because that's the coolest the tent is with lights on, with the tent open I'll hit peaks of 32-33c, with the tent door shut I'll be hitting 40c.
> 
> Always waiting on pay day though, only another 24hours and I can hopefully buy all the things I need. Whoever said this was cheap and easy was wrong haha.


Haha, Yeah that's a small tent indeed mate. I started with a 120x60x160 for veg, but I had a 5"ruck cooling it and only a 250mh.
I now have my 315cmh in my veg tent which is 1.2mx1.2m x 1.6m (loft tent to fit my sloped ceiling) Running a 5" ruck and its super cool in there.

Hope you get it all sorted. Don't forget it will pay you back 1000 fold when you get some dank ass nugs to smoke! Roll on pay day!


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## JDMase (Apr 29, 2017)

Hey guys, so flowering is imminent, ive decided to do a staggered perpetual type grow, flowering my Kings Kush and Black Dog out first, then leaving the back wall bare for what will probably be the grapefruit krush next month. 

Ive currently got my 600w HPS hanging, with a bare bulb holder on the way, my question is should I also add my 315w CMH? 

Should I hang it from the top or also vertically? 

Or should I swap the CMH for the HPS? 

Ive never flowered with the CMH before but ive heard results are just as good as a HPS, my HPS bulb is just a cheapy anyway. 

Taking more clones tonight because im blown away with the KK's vigour. Lovely spicy smells coming from it all the way through veg. Can't wait to try it


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## JDMase (May 4, 2017)

Here's Kings kush, showing some real unhappiness. I had the dark green leaves for a week and had leached with low nutes, a few days later flushed with just ph tap water, still no improvements. As of two days ago the bottom leaves have begun to yellow. Im unsure if ive gone from nitrogen tox to def or whether I have root rot?


It's even affecting my other plants now. I switched to bloom nutes as I was thinking I had nitrogen toxicity on all my plants.

I am using mykos and azos with every water as of yesterday. Up until then I had only used it as a direct root innoculant when up potting.


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## gr865 (May 4, 2017)

JDMase said:


> View attachment 3936091 View attachment 3936092 View attachment 3936093
> 
> Here's Kings kush, showing some real unhappiness. I had the dark green leaves for a week and had leached with low nutes, a few days later flushed with just ph tap water, still no improvements. As of two days ago the bottom leaves have begun to yellow. Im unsure if ive gone from nitrogen tox to def or whether I have root rot?
> 
> ...


Too much N and some mag deficiency?


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## JDMase (May 4, 2017)

After a little more research im wondering if im under feeding nutrients. I believe before I was feeding my autos around 1000ppm and with these ive not gone over 700ppm much if at all. I'll be feeding 1:1 grow and bloom at 800ppm from now on and will observe from there on.


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## JDMase (May 4, 2017)

gr865 said:


> Too much N and some mag deficiency?


Quite possibly, I feed tap water but just got some RO. Should I start off slow with cal mag? Or just feed at a steady rate.


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## gr865 (May 4, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Quite possibly, I feed tap water but just got some RO. Should I start off slow with cal mag? Or just feed at a steady rate.


I use GH Cal/Magic and I believe the rate is 5 ml (1 tsp)/gallon. When I use RO or rainwater (my rainwater is 2 ppm) I add tap to bring my #'s to 120 ppm, then begin adding the base nutes. My tap is over 800 ppm so I use it only for this.
I use Canna Coco's line of nutes but I back off of their recommended rates, as I feel they are way high. For example, in veg I will add only 200 ppm of A&B, in flower 400 ppm. Now that rate does not give me the Cal ratio needed. You need around 150 ppm of calcium alone.....so even if when I'm at 200 ppm if I only added 100 ppm of Calimagic, only 75 is calcium so I would still be short. I would need to add approx.140 ppm of Cal/Magic to reach my desired number.
Here is a chart the gives the ratios of Calcium in given ppm of A&B.

This is based on slightly rough math but is very close to correct.
3 ml/gal = .4 ec = 200 ppm with around 44 ppm of calcium
4.5 ml/gal = .6 ec = 300 ppm with around 66 ppm of calcium
6.2 ml/gal = .8 ec = 400 ppm with around 88 ppm of calcium
7.7 ml/gal = 1 ec = 500 ppm with around 112 ppm of calcium
9.2 ml/gal = 1.2 ec = 600 ppm with around 135 ppm of calcium.........

This Calcium information is purely based on a Canna schedule, using CalMagic. As I stated, once you hit around 700 ppm you no longer need Cal/mag additives.

GR


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## JDMase (May 4, 2017)

gr865 said:


> I use GH Cal/Magic and I believe the rate is 5 ml (1 tsp)/gallon. When I use RO or rainwater (my rainwater is 2 ppm) I add tap to bring my #'s to 120 ppm, then begin adding the base nutes. My tap is over 800 ppm so I use it only for this.
> I use Canna Coco's line of nutes but I back off of their recommended rates, as I feel they are way high. For example, in veg I will add only 200 ppm of A&B, in flower 400 ppm. Now that rate does not give me the Cal ratio needed. You need around 150 ppm of calcium alone.....so even if when I'm at 200 ppm if I only added 100 ppm of Calimagic, only 75 is calcium so I would still be short. I would need to add approx.140 ppm of Cal/Magic to reach my desired number.
> Here is a chart the gives the ratios of Calcium in given ppm of A&B.
> 
> ...


Thanks that's really good information, I appreciate your help.


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## JDMase (May 4, 2017)

So I had a look at the bottoms of my cubes.. This is my grapefruit krush, the most root bound, no symptoms showing like the kings kush, but the roots are very similar in colour. Is this root rot or just the staining from nutrients (floranova) and maybe the mykos too? They always seem to leave a brown residue too.


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## JDMase (May 5, 2017)

If anyone has any UK or EU links to QB's or COBS for my three walls of 3ftx6ft that would be great! HPS sucks, im debating whether to just hang my CMH solely in place of the HPS.


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## 3GT (May 5, 2017)

JDMase said:


> If anyone has any UK or EU links to QB's or COBS for my three walls of 3ftx6ft that would be great! HPS sucks, im debating whether to just hang my CMH solely in place of the HPS.


Either buy these now @ 1/2 the price of Samsung H series strips (same as QB's) or wait till Samsung F series are in stock for the same price.. https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/bridgelux/BXEB-L1120Z-30E4000-C-A3/976-1502-ND/6236288


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## JDMase (May 5, 2017)

3GT said:


> Either buy these now @ 1/2 the price of Samsung H series strips (same as QB's) or wait till Samsung F series are in stock for the same price.. https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/bridgelux/BXEB-L1120Z-30E4000-C-A3/976-1502-ND/6236288


Hey man! Thanks for the heads up, are there guides on how to assemble these together? How many would I need for 3 lots of 3ftx6ft footprints? Thanks!


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## THCBrain (May 5, 2017)

JDMase said:


> If anyone has any UK or EU links to QB's or COBS for my three walls of 3ftx6ft that would be great! HPS sucks, im debating whether to just hang my CMH solely in place of the HPS.


I would..


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## JDMase (May 5, 2017)

THCBrain said:


> I would..


Do you think it'll donthe job on its own? I had thought I might have to run one at the top and one below to get the coverage.


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## 3GT (May 5, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Hey man! Thanks for the heads up, are there guides on how to assemble these together? How many would I need for 3 lots of 3ftx6ft footprints? Thanks!


There's a few threads over in the led section, you're welcome  https://www.rollitup.org/t/bridgelux-eb-series-build.928676/

I'm currently building a cupboard 6ft x 2.5ft x 7ft so my tressiled area will be 6x6 roughly, 2 x walls of 20 x 2ft 3000k strips + 12 x vero decor 18 17E 1750k (was going for the 2700k 97cri v10 chips but they're too small/less efficient). With 20 strips its 300w @ 700ma or 600w max @1400ma. 

I'll reply more soon just busy


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## THCBrain (May 5, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Do you think it'll donthe job on its own? I had thought I might have to run one at the top and one below to get the coverage.


I have only used mine horizontally, but did find I had to add a 600 towards the end, in your case I'd have the 315 at the bottom and the 600 on top.


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## JDMase (May 5, 2017)

THCBrain said:


> I have only used mine horizontally, but did find I had to add a 600 towards the end, in your case I'd have the 315 at the bottom and the 600 on top.


I think I'll switch them round, and then put the 600w on at around week 7 at the top of the tent then. That ought to save me some money. I think they prefer the CMH spectrum anyway.


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## THCBrain (May 5, 2017)

I've got a strain that loves it on 18/6 but needs added light during the last few weeks I'd buy another one but can't afford it right now.


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## JDMase (May 5, 2017)

THCBrain said:


> I've got a strain that loves it on 18/6 but needs added light during the last few weeks I'd buy another one but can't afford it right now.


Same boat man! And as soon as I get the money I'll probably go LED anyway.


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## gr865 (May 5, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Same boat man! And as soon as I get the money I'll probably go LED anyway.


Why?


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## JDMase (May 5, 2017)

gr865 said:


> Why?


Quantum and cobs run cooler and with 1 CMH im still getting temps of 30c+ albeit Its a lot better since I got a new extraction fan.


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## JDMase (May 5, 2017)

So it turns out ive been having timer issues. Turning off at midnight as well as midday, also turning on at 3am. Would explain the drooping I think as well as maybe some other symptoms?


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## gr865 (May 7, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Quantum and cobs run cooler and with 1 CMH im still getting temps of 30c+ albeit Its a lot better since I got a new extraction fan.


In my experience, using the SS400, the led's themselves do put out that much heat but as a unit the exhaust for the heat sinks is where all the heat comes from. I had a hard time keeping my cabinet grow cool using the led.
Both of my ballast for the 315's are mounted outside the tent. Just using passive cooling from the house keeps my tent around 75 to 78 degrees and humidity is 51%.
Not sure what the temps will be when I add the second 315 but running vert with cooling fan below the lights it should not be a problem.
HGO, in ICmag, did a stacked 600 HID in a 4x4 and had no heat issues. I have been told my stacked 315 should be the equivalent of 500W HID's for each lamp.

GR


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## JDMase (May 7, 2017)

Kings kush looking really unhappy. Trimmed the gro dan White plastic away and potted into an air pot (yellow base) with lots of rockwool croutons, thoroughly watered and hoping that it perks up by tomorrow. It's looking awful today. Black dog isn't as bad, but definitely will need potting up, will do that tomorrow as the Kings kush trellis was a dog to move. 

Got two new tents and have moved the others into their new homes. Clones also not looking too great. Not having a good time this round. Pictures to follow tomorrow!


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## JDMase (May 10, 2017)

Clones not doing too well, I can only put this down to not sterilising my utensils properly, a few have died and the stems just seem to go brown and shrivveled, they seemed to shrivel a lot when I took the dome off. Next time I'll take bigger clones and probably not trim the leaves as much. I think most guides assume your taking 20+ clones. I added half a cup of water half way through (opposed to the 2 cups recommended) and the Rockwool cubes were warm and drenched. 

Feeding just water with hydroguard at the moment. They have xtreme mykos and azos on them right now


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## JDMase (May 10, 2017)

Kings kush looking sad since I put it on the trellis. Upgraded the root space and switched to a 12/12 as I just want to flower it out asap. 
Leaves are curling under and drying out. New growth seems to be ok but still heavily curling. 

I don't know what to do with it.


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## JDMase (May 10, 2017)

HSO black dog looking slightly happier than the KK, dark leaves lead me to think nitrogen tox? I don't know, im trying to not overthink this one. New growth seems good, both the Kings kush and this one have grown despite looking so poor, throughout. That's about a month of growth with issues. Wish my clones would take because it's a keeper for vigour.


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## JDMase (May 10, 2017)

My new veg tent is almost full of Pineapple Express, tangie, and grapefruit krush! Fruity!


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## JDMase (May 11, 2017)

GOT ROOTS?!
I love seeing lots of roots, because that means lots of fruits!

This Grapefruit has plenty of roots, I need to figure out a way to raise the cubes off the tray, but can also support the weight of the plant. I need some type of grill. Im gonna give the trellis I used a go but I feel it won't take the weight.

I watched an interesting video about air pruning and the "4 inch rule" anyone else heard of it?


----------



## coreywebster (May 11, 2017)

JDMase said:


> HSO black dog looking slightly happier than the KK, dark leaves lead me to think nitrogen tox? I don't know, im trying to not overthink this one. New growth seems good, both the Kings kush and this one have grown despite looking so poor, throughout. That's about a month of growth with issues. Wish my clones would take because it's a keeper for vigour.


Alright chief, Did you get your temps sorted in there? If not that can add to N tox somewhat.

How are you finding the cmh In your veg tent? I'm loving mine so far, Sure beats the 400w hps in every way. Rightfully so like!

I have heard of air pruning, I use cloth pots now. What's the 4 inch rule?


----------



## coreywebster (May 11, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Clones not doing too well, I can only put this down to not sterilising my utensils properly, a few have died and the stems just seem to go brown and shrivveled, they seemed to shrivel a lot when I took the dome off. Next time I'll take bigger clones and probably not trim the leaves as much. I think most guides assume your taking 20+ clones. I added half a cup of water half way through (opposed to the 2 cups recommended) and the Rockwool cubes were warm and drenched.
> 
> Feeding just water with hydroguard at the moment. They have xtreme mykos and azos on them right now


Yeah they look a bit small mate. I have had very small ones before but maybe not that small.
If you still end up with no luck next time just ditch the rockwool and use that seed tray with perlite in every other cell. Put an inch of water in the bottom or propagator and leave em be. I don't use a dome or mist or anything else. 95%-100% success rate.
Rockwool stays wet for a long time and isn't the best for oxygenation, its a good combo for brown stems.


----------



## coreywebster (May 11, 2017)

gr865 said:


> In my experience, using the SS400, the led's themselves do put out that much heat but as a unit the exhaust for the heat sinks is where all the heat comes from. I had a hard time keeping my cabinet grow cool using the led.
> Both of my ballast for the 315's are mounted outside the tent. Just using passive cooling from the house keeps my tent around 75 to 78 degrees and humidity is 51%.
> Not sure what the temps will be when I add the second 315 but running vert with cooling fan below the lights it should not be a problem.
> HGO, in ICmag, did a stacked 600 HID in a 4x4 and had no heat issues. I have been told my stacked 315 should be the equivalent of 500W HID's for each lamp.
> ...


Depends on the LED in question. There's no point unless they are efficient. A lot of folks think LED is cooler because they cant feel the heat but its just getting dispersed into the grow room quicker, I'm talking cheap LED there.

Those cmh stacked will do amazing I imagine.
I gave my mate my old cool tubes with 600w hps, he runs 2 stacked in the cooltubes in a 1mx1m tent. No problem with temps. But obviously his extraction is set up to go out of the house entirely, not getting churned back through over and over.
Anyway point is he does damn well with them and makes the most use of his space since he had to down grade after moving house.

Will have to keep an eye on your posts, real interested to see a stacked 315 cmh on the go.


----------



## JDMase (May 11, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Alright chief, Did you get your temps sorted in there? If not that can add to N tox somewhat.
> 
> How are you finding the cmh In your veg tent? I'm loving mine so far, Sure beats the 400w hps in every way. Rightfully so like!
> 
> I have heard of air pruning, I use cloth pots now. What's the 4 inch rule?


Hey mate, yeah the 1metre tent was vegging everything for a while, I can't fault the CMH, when I switched from it to HPS I got so many issues. Maybe due to heat, didn't know heat could add to N tox. 

Temps are comfortably under 28 with the CMH floating in the middle with a fan underneath blowing up to the extraction. Plants look happier. I have everything not in the 1m tent in a 60x60cm tent under a 125w CFL now, they are doing better in there than under the CMH, makes me think that ive been hitting my plants with too much light for too long. They've doubled in height in a week nearly hitting the roof, this could be due to the fact that they're close together, apparently they know they have no space when they touch leaves so they grow upwards instead - not an issue as I have 2 metres to play with once in flower. 

The 4" rule is basically that you should only let the tap root grow 4" until it air prunes, and sends back that signal to grow more roots outward, apparently 4 inches is all you need! I can't complain about that. Saw a comparison of plants that had more or less root length and 4" seemed to be the magic number. You should do this with every seed as it was shown that any other configuration of pot or method encourages rootballing and harmed growth even into later life.


----------



## JDMase (May 11, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Yeah they look a bit small mate. I have had very small ones before but maybe not that small.
> If you still end up with no luck next time just ditch the rockwool and use that seed tray with perlite in every other cell. Put an inch of water in the bottom or propagator and leave em be. I don't use a dome or mist or anything else. 95%-100% success rate.
> Rockwool stays wet for a long time and isn't the best for oxygenation, its a good combo for brown stems.


Ive put a cutting into a glass of water covered in tinfoil to block light. No dome maybe the occasional mist? Will see how it gets on. 

I split a couple rockwool cubes open and the third one had tiny little nubs forming but the rest of the plant looked dead. I am hoping I just drenched them too much and that they'll pull through. I only need one of each.


----------



## JDMase (May 11, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Depends on the LED in question. There's no point unless they are efficient. A lot of folks think LED is cooler because they cant feel the heat but its just getting dispersed into the grow room quicker, I'm talking cheap LED there.
> 
> Those cmh stacked will do amazing I imagine.
> I gave my mate my old cool tubes with 600w hps, he runs 2 stacked in the cooltubes in a 1mx1m tent. No problem with temps. But obviously his extraction is set up to go out of the house entirely, not getting churned back through over and over.
> ...


Im doubting that I'll stack two until September, I need a decent yield from the KK and BD to be able to afford it. I expect using one to just mean I'll get more larf on the bottom branches - no different to what a normal scrog would achieve. I still think this way of growing is more efficient and optimal for the space. Nobody ive spoken to off this site has agreed. Will wait and see what the yields say.


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## coreywebster (May 11, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Im doubting that I'll stack two until September, I need a decent yield from the KK and BD to be able to afford it. I expect using one to just mean I'll get more larf on the bottom branches - no different to what a normal scrog would achieve. I still think this way of growing is more efficient and optimal for the space. Nobody ive spoken to off this site has agreed. Will wait and see what the yields say.


Defo more efficient way of using that space. I have seen some incredible vert grows, I even thought about going that way myself until I built my cob light. It wouldn't be the best use of my space in my situation.

Good luck man, hope this grow really produces for you.


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## JDMase (May 11, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Defo more efficient way of using that space. I have seen some incredible vert grows, I even thought about going that way myself until I built my cob light. It wouldn't be the best use of my space in my situation.
> 
> Good luck man, hope this grow really produces for you.


I thought about going cobs or QB's, it would work for vert if you wanted to spend 600£, that is only 160 more than two CMH and you can cover three walls. Maybe I'll do it next year if I get another tent.. Would be a good comparison


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## JDMase (May 12, 2017)

Kings kush still showing no signs of improvement, the dry dead leaves are creeping up the plant and through to the oldest fan leaves. New growth looks wirthered but not as dark, I gave up and flushed with ph 6.1 plain water, tomorrow I'll go back to 600ppm, 300 nutrient 300 tap water. 

Can't quite figure out why this plants doig this when all my others seem fine. Maybe just over due a flush and some root space.


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## Cyah1990 (May 13, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Kings kush still showing no signs of improvement, the dry dead leaves are creeping up the plant and through to the oldest fan leaves. New growth looks wirthered but not as dark, I gave up and flushed with ph 6.1 plain water, tomorrow I'll go back to 600ppm, 300 nutrient 300 tap water.
> 
> Can't quite figure out why this plants doig this when all my others seem fine. Maybe just over due a flush and some root space.


Damn! your tap water ppm is at 300?


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## JDMase (May 13, 2017)

Cyah1990 said:


> Damn! your tap water ppm is at 300?


Yep! I have a Distiller but it does like 2 pints at a time. I do have RO water I just bought so I might start using that. Im always unsure how much cal mag to add and end up adding tap water to the RO


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## JDMase (May 13, 2017)

The local report says:

"The water in your area is hard.

To help set your domestic appliances, the water hardness in different units is:
292.5 mg/l :Calcium Carbonate
117 mg/l :Calcium
20.358 °C egrees Clark
29.25 °F egrees French
16.614 °dH egrees German
2.925 mmol/l :Millimoles

The average chlorine concentration for this Public Water Supply Zone from January 2016 to December 2016 was <0.32 milligrammes per litre free chlorine and 0.480 milligrammes per litre total chlorine. This drinking water supply is not chloraminated."


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## THCBrain (May 14, 2017)

JDMase said:


> GOT ROOTS?!
> I love seeing lots of roots, because that means lots of fruits!
> 
> This Grapefruit has plenty of roots, I need to figure out a way to raise the cubes off the tray, but can also support the weight of the plant. I need some type of grill. Im gonna give the trellis I used a go but I feel it won't take the weight.
> ...


I too have watched the video about the 4 inch, very interesting as well, since watching that video I looked through my last crop and found it was true, but I didn't get that solid mass of root he had.


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## JDMase (May 14, 2017)

So Kings kush is still progressing with deficiencies, switched to RO water, floranova bloom nutes to get rid of the nitrogen def 500ppm(used this throughout before as it follows the lucas formula) cal mag at 1ml per litre as per bottle, and some hydroguard at 2ml per us gal.


Also my clones have mould appearing since I put the dome back on, got rid of two with visible mould, sprayed the rest with h2o2 and opened the vents on the Dome. 

This grow is kicking my ass hard


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## JDMase (May 14, 2017)

Affected leaves around the middle and bottom of the plant, so it's creeping up. Have already flushed with plain RO yesterday. New growth looks ok, still all clawing downward and cupping the same way, but not as dark in colour. Any help?


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## Cyah1990 (May 14, 2017)

JDMase said:


> So Kings kush is still progressing with deficiencies, switched to RO water, floranova bloom nutes to get rid of the nitrogen def 500ppm(used this throughout before as it follows the lucas formula) cal mag at 1ml per litre as per bottle, and some hydroguard at 2ml per us gal.
> 
> 
> Also my clones have mould appearing since I put the dome back on, got rid of two with visible mould, sprayed the rest with h2o2 and opened the vents on the Dome.
> ...


Oh yea I was gonna say about the cloning, use a aeroponic cloning system, no domes, or misting, it changed my life wen it came to cloning.


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## Cyah1990 (May 14, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Affected leaves around the middle and bottom of the plant, so it's creeping up. Have already flushed with plain RO yesterday. New growth looks ok, still all clawing downward and cupping the same way, but not as dark in colour. Any help?


Yea stick with the ro water or leave the tap water out in the open for 24 hrs, do u check ph?


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## JDMase (May 14, 2017)

Cyah1990 said:


> Yea stick with the ro water or leave the tap water out in the open for 24 hrs, do u check ph?


I didn't think I could water with RO for so long as rockwool is inert? 
Yeah ph is around 6 +/- 0.1 usually.


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## JDMase (May 14, 2017)

http://www.growweedeasy.com/potassium-deficiency-cannabis


Maybe this? Looks similar. Im pretty sure im doing all it says in the solution, ive even moved the light away 4 inches.


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## Cyah1990 (May 14, 2017)

JDMase said:


> http://www.growweedeasy.com/potassium-deficiency-cannabis
> 
> 
> Maybe this? Looks similar. Im pretty sure im doing all it says in the solution, ive even moved the light away 4 inches.


Could be, I saw you said you were giving bloom nutes, are you flowering now?


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## JDMase (May 15, 2017)

Cyah1990 said:


> Could be, I saw you said you were giving bloom nutes, are you flowering now?


Yeah started them early due to the nitrogen tox, figured it would lower the nitrogen sooner. 1 week into flower now


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## coreywebster (May 15, 2017)

If you do use RO make sure your getting all those micros your plants need in your nutrients. Personally I think we have damn fine water in most of our country.. Damn fine water. Mine is hard too but its not that hard, since I use canna range nutrients its a bonus since they are designed to be used with tap water. For hard water you generally feed about 20% less nutrients depending on the hardness.

You could be right on the Potassium def, Would make sense, according to mulders chart too much N can cause a decreased availability of potassium.

I know you grow in rockwool cubes but in what method do you use them JDM?


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## JDMase (May 15, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> If you do use RO make sure your getting all those micros your plants need in your nutrients. Personally I think we have damn fine water in most of our country.. Damn fine water. Mine is hard too but its not that hard, since I use canna range nutrients its a bonus since they are designed to be used with tap water. For hard water you generally feed about 20% less nutrients depending on the hardness.
> 
> You could be right on the Potassium def, Would make sense, according to mulders chart too much N can cause a decreased availability of potassium.
> 
> I know you grow in rockwool cubes but in what method do you use them JDM?


I use floranova bloom it's supposedly best used with RO because it conforms with the KISS or lucas method. 

I used canna before, might switch back to them after I use up this stuff. 

Hmm yeah I just checked that chart you're right. Im not sure whether to do a flush again, might just do another reduce nute maybe down to 300ppm's. 

So I just top feed them with a watering can. I treat it like you would coco or soil I guess. I did have a drip feeder but I didn't get on with it.


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## JDMase (May 19, 2017)

Kings Kush is lookig healthier but it's still got clawing leaves, but the new growth seems to be happier, I think another low ppm leach should do it. 

Black dog is steaming ahead. Looking really happy. Didn't stretch hardly at all, I did use my topping technique though, looks like it's gonna be really bushy and dense 

Than the dwarf candy kush, really packing on some trichomes now, Yep, it's in my 12/12 flower tent. 

I figured 12 hours of CMH would be better than 24 of 125w cfl. 

Grapefruit Pineapple Express and tangie are all almost as tall as my veg tent. Underestimated how big they'd get. Tangie smelling so citrusy it's a definite keeper. Grapefruit completely root bound and pineapple being the smallest with sweet hints. All in veg. 

Unsure whether to cut tops for clones and let them bush out and put them each in the flower tent when the others are done, or whether to put grapefruit in the flower tent and run a perpetual.


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## JDMase (May 21, 2017)

Candy Kush by auto seeds packing on some trichomes now under CMH, I expect around 3-4 weeks until I think about chopping.. I hope.


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## JDMase (May 21, 2017)

Any tips on how to pack on more frost welcome. Gonna start using potassium silicate foliar feed


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## JDMase (May 22, 2017)

Kings kush still unhappy, ruled out over watering by not watering it for two days.. I watered it just now, the pic below is from yesterday. Ive flushed with RO water twice and kept nutes really low (4-500ppm total with floranova and RO water and a small amount of cal mag, around 10ppm of that.) 

What can I do next?


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## gr865 (May 22, 2017)

My suggestion is "compost it". Looks like mine back then, they all ended up in the compost pile.


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## gr865 (May 22, 2017)

It is a heat/dryness problem, that is that I faced. It will not recover, I wasted much time on it.

Dump it and move on.

IMHO

GR


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## ALong14U (May 22, 2017)

Hmm. If you have flushed and it's not getting better and new growth is dying off makes me think some sort of root problem maybe. 

What size pot? That's a very large plant. If that air pruning pot is only 3 or 5 gallons that may be your problem. Those pots are great. But once all space is used in the pot I can suffocate itself . Or get spots where water does not drain hence creating rot. Have you tried flushing and then using no nutes at all? Not even call mag. Just 50 ppm? 
Maybe get a look at the roots somehow? Don't know if you can. Transplant out of those pots? 

Besides that I don't know. Maybe a heat issues but usually the leaves curl upwards and get crispy if not corrected right away. Looks more like overfeeding nutes but that's weird it's dying only on the top. 

Sorry bud not much info. I'll do some digging and some brain picking. Get back at you. 

Nameste!


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## JDMase (May 23, 2017)

gr865 said:


> It is a heat/dryness problem, that is that I faced. It will not recover, I wasted much time on it.
> 
> Dump it and move on.
> 
> ...





ALong14U said:


> Hmm. If you have flushed and it's not getting better and new growth is dying off makes me think some sort of root problem maybe.
> 
> What size pot? That's a very large plant. If that air pruning pot is only 3 or 5 gallons that may be your problem. Those pots are great. But once all space is used in the pot I can suffocate itself . Or get spots where water does not drain hence creating rot. Have you tried flushing and then using no nutes at all? Not even call mag. Just 50 ppm?
> Maybe get a look at the roots somehow? Don't know if you can. Transplant out of those pots?
> ...


Thanks guys, it's an odd one, it's done it ever since I tied it up and put it in a vert. Was my healthiest plant until then, I have been treating it with hydroguard and i potted up into that pot incase it was a root bound issue. The only thing I can think of is to do more frequent feeds, with less PPM's? Usually I was feeding it once a day. 
My heat shouldn't be an issue, it's less than 28c all day. 

Id of scrapped it long ago but it's my girlfriends plant and I think she'd be real upset if I didn't figure it out. Despite the issues it's still been out growing everything else ive got. 

Im gonna put it on a flush regime again, not something im keen to do but needs must.


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## JDMase (May 23, 2017)

gr865 said:


> My suggestion is "compost it". Looks like mine back then, they all ended up in the compost pile.
> 
> View attachment 3947437


Damn that thing looks almost exactly like mine. Did you ever find out what issues caused it ?


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## gr865 (May 23, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Damn that thing looks almost exactly like mine. Did you ever find out what issues caused it ?


I never really figured it out, but I believe it got too dry. I was using Blumats and had a hell of a time keeping them adjusted. All of the 5 plants reacted the same only this one was the worse. 
The strains were Critical Kush and Blue Cheese, both supposed to be in the 25% THC range. Tried making some Cannabis Oil and it so weak I could not even use it.

I was running GH nutes and a modified version of H3ad's formula for coco. Even running 3/5 compared to 6/9 I still got nute burn. 

That is what led me to begin using drip. 

GR


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## JDMase (May 23, 2017)

gr865 said:


> I never really figured it out, but I believe it got too dry. I was using Blumats and had a hell of a time keeping them adjusted. All of the 5 plants reacted the same only this one was the worse.
> The strains were Critical Kush and Blue Cheese, both supposed to be in the 25% THC range. Tried making some Cannabis Oil and it so weak I could not even use it.
> 
> I was running GH nutes and a modified version of H3ad's formula for coco. Even running 3/5 compared to 6/9 I still got nute burn.
> ...


Thanks for the heads up, think I should water more frequently? Im gonna check for light leaks as I have a suspicious that could be a factor - noticed a small hole at the top of my tent.


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## coreywebster (May 23, 2017)

Wouldn't be surprised if it were a root rot issue, been in wet rockwool. If it is then it will take a long time to sort out if ever.
You seem to have problems in certain patches of the plant. So possibly root rot. I would change from hydro guard to h2o2 for the added oxygen content.


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## JDMase (May 23, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Wouldn't be surprised if it were a root rot issue, been in wet rockwool. If it is then it will take a long time to sort out if ever.
> You seem to have problems in certain patches of the plant. So possibly root rot. I would change from hydro guard to h2o2 for the added oxygen content.


Was reluctant to go the h2o2 route purely because it would negate all the microbes ive put in over time thus killing everything in there. I have some pythoff but im not sure if that does the same or just hits the Pythium. I'll have a quick Google and think about it.


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## gr865 (May 23, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Thanks for the heads up, think I should water more frequently? Im gonna check for light leaks as I have a suspicious that could be a factor - noticed a small hole at the top of my tent.


I would check them frequently and water as needed, I never let them dry beyond 60 to 70%. I have one of those cheap handheld combo, moisture, light and pH meters. Only use the moisture meter. I now have three time sets, 8 hrs apart, first two just a bit of runoff and the last one is set to give around 20 to 30% runoff.
The Gorilla Grow Tent Lite I am using has light leaks at every seam. After my last grow 15+ zips, I got in the tent, had G/F zip me in and close the closet door. I saw now light coming from the outside, then she opened the closed door and I could just make out minor light along the seams. I keep the door closed during the lights off period of 12/12. No problems!
I would not worry about it unless it is a major leak.

GR


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## JDMase (May 23, 2017)

Left to right we have grapefruit krush, tangie, Pineapple Express. 

Pineapple had some light burn from the cfl, they all really point themselves towards it. The PE got burnt though. 

Decided to air layer them with a root riot cube just after this picthre. Stay tuned for that outcome.


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## JDMase (May 23, 2017)

My black dog is coming up fast. Pistills everywhere but they're not very long. I always associate long pistills with bigger buds - hope im not missing out on too much of the yield im used to with this CMH. First time im flowering out with it.


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## JDMase (May 23, 2017)

Kings Kush had 100ppm of nutrient and potassium silicate to help with stress, another dose of hydroguard. If there's no improvement by tomorrow it's getting hit with pythoff.


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## JDMase (May 23, 2017)

Hope candy kush here is done soon, down to my last buds and could use the smoke at the moment! No standout smells or anything, kinda sweet but mainly just smells of weed. Not a bad thing im guessing. Pistills seem to be curling in and it's putting size on so we shall see how that one turns out soon! 


That's all I got for now! Fingers crossed I get an air layer to hit on the teens, might try it on the KK and BD too tomorrow.


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## JDMase (May 24, 2017)

More bad news. The teens - tangie, grapefruit and pineapple ALL have what I suspect to be pythium root rot. 

Woke up this morning to high temps and wilting, nitrogen def looking leaves, fallen leaves curled up. Basically a massacre. 

Given them a full dose of pythoff but I watered lightly as they've already been watered last night. Will give them a thorough one later on tonight.

Annoyingly was going to flower out the grapefruit tonight. 

I thought it may be the fact Id air layered causing some additional stress but the roots had sat in water all night. 

My gf also washed her hands off into the water which was filling up the watering can last night. 

I think a combination of factors are here but most importantly I need to make sure everything is sterile from now on. So frustrating.


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## gr865 (May 26, 2017)

Remember it's not how many time a man falls down, it's how many times he picks himself up!

Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get back to work dude!

I has happened to at least a few of us, some more than others.
Look forward to seeing you next grow, get all your shit together first before you start then get after it.

GR


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## JDMase (May 26, 2017)

gr865 said:


> Remember it's not how many time a man falls down, it's how many times he picks himself up!
> 
> Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get back to work dude!
> 
> ...


Don't worry im perserveering! I don't give up that easy. I'll master this Rockwool grow, it's mainly because everything im doing is either new or on a budget and there isn't too many resources or good info on how I grow so it's kind of like im figuring it out for myself. 


Got some gro dan 1metre slabs which were meant to arrive today - fuck knows where that delivery is, was meant to be a next day! 

My black dog is around 16 days into flowering and the pistills are already turning orange?! Odd.. Maybe they got burned when I moved the light to put the grapefruit into flower. 

Grapefruit krush will be the first to have the new trough system im setting up! Stay tuned for that. 

Candy Kush is almost done! Can't wait for that, hoping for 20-30 grams from that auto. 

Kings kush had a low ppm pythoff feed tonight and although it's looking sat it's smelling crazily like grapefruit. Despite the issues I think whatever it is/was has halted, hopefully more low ppm feeds will get it back on track. 

If you've seen my other grow I had a trans Siberian that whilst so stressed it dumped all its leaves I kept it alive, for 4 months (meant to be a 60 day auto) it eventually yielded me the most ive ever got from one plant.. So much that I wish Id weighed it all. It was around the lb mark for sure if you include all the popcorn. 

I never lollipop!


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## JDMase (May 29, 2017)

Candy Kush auto pretty much done. Will harvest tonight. Well needed success. Was fun growing a mini auto, hardly took any care of it and it packed on trichomes under a 12/12 and actually took almost dead on 60 days from seed! Loving the CMH.
Great smells from this blue dream cross.

Got some nice macro shots I will upload shortly too


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## JDMase (May 29, 2017)

Love macro shots. This is candy kush, seen slight amber but I think I may let it run to get some more cloudy there. Excited


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## JDMase (Jun 2, 2017)

Candy ready for the chop aka the dick plant, didn't really get as big or dense as Id like but ive had problems with all my plants this grow. Excited for the smoke  second pic is a close up of a lower bud. Plenty of trichomes for me!


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## JDMase (Jun 2, 2017)

Just prepared some 3 foot gro dan slabs for the black dog and the grapefruit. Will be set in 30 minutes. My flood and drain trays aren't here yet so they'll be on the floor for now.
Black dog still getting amber pistills - quite a lot now, 3.5 weeks into flower. Is this normal?


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## coreywebster (Jun 3, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Just prepared some 3 foot gro dan slabs for the black dog and the grapefruit. Will be set in 30 minutes. My flood and drain trays aren't here yet so they'll be on the floor for now.
> Black dog still getting amber pistills - quite a lot now, 3.5 weeks into flower. Is this normal?


Assuming your going to oxygenate your water with your flood and drain tables I don't think your gona have the same problems next run.
Look forward to seeing how it progresses.


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## JDMase (Jun 3, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Assuming your going to oxygenate your water with your flood and drain tables I don't think your gona have the same problems next run.
> Look forward to seeing how it progresses.


Just got a call from the hydro shop that they haven't got any of the tables I ordered left. Not really sure what to go for now.

Hows best to oxygenate my water? Air stone or a pump?


----------



## coreywebster (Jun 3, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Just got a call from the hydro shop that they haven't got any of the tables I ordered left. Not really sure what to go for now.
> 
> Hows best to oxygenate my water? Air stone or a pump?


How about nft tables? Pretty easy to adapt to and not too expensive.
I would say both air stone and water pump together. In nft you get a waterfall effect too which also add oxygen.


----------



## JDMase (Jun 3, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> How about nft tables? Pretty easy to adapt to and not too expensive.
> I would say both air stone and water pump together. In nft you get a waterfall effect too which also add oxygen.


http://www.hydrogarden.com/product/01-040-020

Was gonna use these. Gonna see if my local guy can get some in for me. 

I did wonder about whether to get a water butt and a small pump for a waterfall to oxygenate my water, and also store a large batch of mix. Would I have to worry about water temps? Don't want to go down the road of buying a chiller too. 

Prefer to just hand water and use hydroguard.


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## coreywebster (Jun 3, 2017)

JDMase said:


> http://www.hydrogarden.com/product/01-040-020
> 
> Was gonna use these. Gonna see if my local guy can get some in for me.
> 
> ...


If you get a water butt or any type of res that's not in your grow space then you shouldn't need a chiller. It should sit at about 18-20 degrees in an average room in the UK. If you get a tank/res inside your tent then you can cover it with white panda film, which should be fine to keep it cool enough. over 21 degrees the oxygen content drops considerably.

I'm just a bit worried that the hand watering contributed to your issues this last run. But as long as your source is well oxygenated then that should solve that problem.


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## JDMase (Jun 3, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> If you get a water butt or any type of res that's not in your grow space then you shouldn't need a chiller. It should sit at about 18-20 degrees in an average room in the UK. If you get a tank/res inside your tent then you can cover it with white panda film, which should be fine to keep it cool enough. over 21 degrees the oxygen content drops considerably.
> 
> I'm just a bit worried that the hand watering contributed to your issues this last run. But as long as your source is well oxygenated then that should solve that problem.


Yeah ive wondered this too, like how much time do you need to oxygenate before it's ready? Because I must say I pour quite vigoursly.. Lol


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## JDMase (Jun 3, 2017)

Black dog is smelling incredible. Got some trichomes covering the leaves and the buds all seem to be more or less the same size all the way up the plant which is perfect. Just what I wanted. 

Kings Kush is still unhappy but seems to have halted, the smells have also picked up from her, due to the stretch and lanky branches I think im going to have trouble getting the whole thing lit up with one 315w CMH. The buds closest to the light are definitely bigger at this stage. 

Then we have grapefruit. About a week or so in there so just starting to pre flower. 
Only got a few branches tied up before I gave up last night what with the whole trellis' needing to be moved on the black dog to be able to slide the slab unferneath. Was tough! 

Updates will be more regular now we are into the good bit! 

Side note I checked on the air layering earlier with the tangie and she's doing well, haven't checked the grapefruit yet but I will tonight, considering mixing a bit of floranova grow to boost nitrogen as they're all on just floranova bloom right now, and I feel the stem rooting might need Abit more? Im gonna try and work out the nPK now.


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## JDMase (Jun 7, 2017)

Grapefruit krush air layer aborted. 

Decided the leaves were looking unhappy and it was probably inhibiting other growth, although some roots were forming (see the brown stem close to the top) it wasn't fast enough and I had put it in flower as I ran out of room. 

Ive got more seeds of it too. No biggie. 

Pineapple clone #4 has given me roots with root riot cubes so ive ordered some more.

Should I clone my kings Kush or black dog now at this late stage in flower? Im definitely running them again. Any thoughts? 

Buds are growing every day on BD and KK. 4 weeks in now, I expect another 6 or so to the finish. Hopefully before i go away at the end of July!


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## ttystikk (Jun 7, 2017)

JDMase said:


> View attachment 3956720
> Grapefruit krush air layer aborted.
> 
> Decided the leaves were looking unhappy and it was probably inhibiting other growth, although some roots were forming (see the brown stem close to the top) it wasn't fast enough and I had put it in flower as I ran out of room.
> ...


If it was already growing roots you could have clipped it off and just planted it.


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## JDMase (Jun 7, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> If it was already growing roots you could have clipped it off and just planted it.


They are tiny little white nubs, when I took the root riot cube off their were 2 tiny white hairs I broke by accident left in the cube but that was all. 

Think I should cut it off and stick it back in the cube?


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## ttystikk (Jun 7, 2017)

JDMase said:


> They are tiny little white nubs, when I took the root riot cube off their were 2 tiny white hairs I broke by accident left in the cube but that was all.
> 
> Think I should cut it off and stick it back in the cube?


Why not? It's a low branch so won't produce much and you'll want the clone if the plant produces well.


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## JDMase (Jun 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Why not? It's a low branch so won't produce much and you'll want the clone if the plant produces well.


It's at the top of the plant, I quickly put the root riot cube back on and tightened it with a pipe cleaner. Wrapped with foil and I will probably cut it off tomorrow and put it in my humidity dome.

Having problems sourcing Aqua trays here. Two companies have taken my money and not delivered them, still awaiting refunds, third times a charm though. Hopefully they come before I need to irrigate. Grodan recommend 4-5 days until I do, that's coming up fast.

Struggling to get my PPM's above 500 this grow without burn, wondering if that's due to the CMH? With 600w HPS I was hitting 800ppms by this point. (Including 300ppm of tap water)


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## coreywebster (Jun 8, 2017)

I use about that ppm on new clones and veg plants under CMH, no issues. That's not including my tap water either which is 300.

I assume you have tried buying Aqua trays from Bradford hydro? Maybe if you don't get those aqua trays this time you can just go to a few £ shops and pick up the longest plastic planter you can find and adapt them to fit your needs.


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## coreywebster (Jun 8, 2017)

JD are you sure its nutrient burn and not a potassium Def. What nutrients do you use again?


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## JDMase (Jun 8, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> I use about that ppm on new clones and veg plants under CMH, no issues. That's not including my tap water either which is 300.
> 
> I assume you have tried buying Aqua trays from Bradford hydro? Maybe if you don't get those aqua trays this time you can just go to a few £ shops and pick up the longest plastic planter you can find and adapt them to fit your needs.


Ive tried every link on the first 5 pages of Google, I need the 1 metre ones. Considered getting a local plastic company to make 100 and selling them myself on eBay! 

Yeah I will probably look into that if I don't have any luck by Friday!


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## JDMase (Jun 8, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> JD are you sure its nutrient burn and not a potassium Def. What nutrients do you use again?


Im using floranova bloom with a small amount of potassium silicate if needed as a ph up. So mainly just floranova bloom, I have the grow too but I got nitrogen tox using that so switched back a few weeks ago.


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## JDMase (Jun 8, 2017)

Looks like potassium Def is what the Kings kush has though.


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## coreywebster (Jun 8, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Im using floranova bloom with a small amount of potassium silicate if needed as a ph up. So mainly just floranova bloom, I have the grow too but I got nitrogen tox using that so switched back a few weeks ago.


Yeah, that's why I was asking really, I'm sure we have been though all this before though. That bloody Nitrogen.
Are you calibrating your PH pen regular? What does it say your tap water is.


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## JDMase (Jun 8, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Yeah, that's why I was asking really, I'm sure we have been though all this before though. That bloody Nitrogen.
> Are you calibrating your PH pen regular? What does it say your tap water is.


Yeah I calibrated it a few weeks ago after not doing it for months and it was .1+. 
Tap PH is 7.4!


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## JDMase (Jun 8, 2017)

I pulled apart the Rockwool cube that the candy kush was in, the roots had stretched all the way to the bottom and cumulated there, there was almost no roots throughout the cube really, little to no air pruning had occurred as the cube was sat on the tray and not raised. When I did pull it apart it smelt a bit like rot but the majority of the roots were white.

Still got some way to go to iron out my issues.


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## coreywebster (Jun 8, 2017)

Wet rockwool does smell a bit odd, if the roots are white then at least your good with those. I'm sure you will get this sorted next time. Do you use the lucas formula?


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## JDMase (Jun 8, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Wet rockwool does smell a bit odd, if the roots are white then at least your good with those. I'm sure you will get this sorted next time. Do you use the lucas formula?


i did with my autos yeah with this grow its kind of all been an experiment. Im considering switching to canna next grow though.


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## gr865 (Jun 8, 2017)

JDMase said:


> i did with my autos yeah with this grow its kind of all been an experiment. Im considering switching to canna next grow though.


I think you will love it, remember that "Less is More". You don't need a lot of nutes in Canna coco, so start low and build on that.
GR


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## JDMase (Jun 8, 2017)

gr865 said:


> I think you will love it, remember that "Less is More". You don't need a lot of nutes in Canna coco, so start low and build on that.
> GR


Do you think so? The guy at the hydro shop said canna invested a lot of R&D into their nutes and were who he recommended. Can buy the whole line up for £80. Ive heard a lot of the products are snake oils though.

I think ive got the best out of floranova that I can.


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## gr865 (Jun 8, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Do you think so? The guy at the hydro shop said canna invested a lot of R&D into their nutes and were who he recommended. Can buy the whole line up for £80. Ive heard a lot of the products are snake oils though.
> 
> I think ive got the best out of floranova that I can.


I am not saying Canna line is bad, I use it all, but some things just not at the recommended rates. They have been easy to work with for me.
GR


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## coreywebster (Jun 8, 2017)

Canna's advantage for any of us in Europe is its deigned to be used with tap water. I run canna coco and I love it. I can feed fairly high doses too without issue. The main part of the system is the A+B and its really not dear price wise.
Where it is a bit expensive is the boost, but you dont have to go crazy with that. The PK booster is cheap and lasts forever, the rhyzo is expensive but I only run a small amount of that when I transplant and early veg, If I run out I dont worry about it and more often than not slap in some kelp instead of the rhyzo, cannazym is good for me because I recycle the coco but its not needed, still its not expensive.
Overall its a simple nutrient system and for what you get out the cost isn't an issue.


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## JDMase (Jun 8, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Canna's advantage for any of us in Europe is its deigned to be used with tap water. I run canna coco and I love it. I can feed fairly high doses too without issue. The main part of the system is the A+B and its really not dear price wise.
> Where it is a bit expensive is the boost, but you dont have to go crazy with that. The PK booster is cheap and lasts forever, the rhyzo is expensive but I only run a small amount of that when I transplant and early veg, If I run out I dont worry about it and more often than not slap in some kelp instead of the rhyzo, cannazym is good for me because I recycle the coco but its not needed, still its not expensive.
> Overall its a simple nutrient system and for what you get out the cost isn't an issue.


Yeah man I was considering mixing my own nutes and checked out that thread on here reverse engineering nutes. How did you get on mixing your own rhyzo I think it was?

Other than that jacks JR peters or whatever is meant to be good. I know of somebody round here who mixed dry nutes up according to their tap water I would really love to do that.

Just got back from seein Russell brand live so funny. Had some edibles before haha. Was a good show.


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## coreywebster (Jun 9, 2017)

I never did get round to mixing my own mate, mainly because I started using kelp in veg, which seems to offer much of the same benefits, such as increasing roots, vitamins , de stressing and a chunk of micro nutrients.

I just bought myself some RAW nutrient supplements after watching all the Harley Smith vids on youtube, which even though they are trying to sell a product are very educational at a base level. I picked up some yukka as a wetting agent, due to my coco been years old, some amino acids, humic acid and some microbes for flower.

Just wanted to try them out and get those chemical reactions increasing within the plant. One thing I noticed about their products is the feeding schedule, they increase P a lot in the first half in flower and then drop that right down in the second half while increasing the K. Which made me think about the canna line and any other line which has a PK booster like PK 13/14. Just seems that having both in increased amounts at the same time may not be as good as having the different ratio. Although I have to assume that the canna boost must contain a fair amount of P or the plants would be showing a deficiency early flower because you don't use the PK till later in flower. I have decided to add the PK earlier at the same time reduce the A and B to see how that works, still staying around the same E.C. Canna coco is NPK 5-4-3 which seems a lot of N for later in flower, not that ive ever seen N tox or close to it.
I may yet buy the RAW bloom powder and the P and K separately and try a run in flower with that to see how that works in comparison. All in a way to get one step closer to mixing my own salts, which I would love to do one day. Obviously I wouldn't buy RAW once mixing my own.

Ah Russell brand ey.. Nice one. Don't see him on TV much these days.


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## JDMase (Jun 9, 2017)

This is tangies air layer. Grapefruit looked pretty similar to this. Kinda hard with the cube to keep it closed fully but with enough foil wrapped round it it seems to be progressing. 

Might try rockwool croutons next time.


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## JDMase (Jun 9, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> I never did get round to mixing my own mate, mainly because I started using kelp in veg, which seems to offer much of the same benefits, such as increasing roots, vitamins , de stressing and a chunk of micro nutrients.
> 
> I just bought myself some RAW nutrient supplements after watching all the Harley Smith vids on youtube, which even though they are trying to sell a product are very educational at a base level. I picked up some yukka as a wetting agent, due to my coco been years old, some amino acids, humic acid and some microbes for flower.
> 
> ...


What kelp do you use? I might give it a go for mine. 

Oh nice yeah ive seen those advertised, they worth it? Don't bottled nutes have those in anyway? 

Yeah that would be sweet I would be interested to see how that turns out. I want to mix my own but finding ingredients online has been a pain. Just comes up with unrelated stuff or that raw stuff. Got any links to suppliers by any chance? 

I was probably gonna follow the reverse engineer nuteients thread and try out some of those recipes. 

Yeah man he was hilarious he said at the beginning "the worst thing to do if you're in the media, is slag off the media, which is exactly what I done - so now I'm here because ive got a baby and I need the money" was brilliant haha.


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## ttystikk (Jun 9, 2017)

JDMase said:


> This is tangies air layer. Grapefruit looked pretty similar to this. Kinda hard with the cube to keep it closed fully but with enough foil wrapped round it it seems to be progressing.
> 
> Might try rockwool croutons next time.


Keep it dark and moist and that's gonna pop roots any day.


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## JDMase (Jun 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Keep it dark and moist and that's gonna pop roots any day.


I hope so!


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## coreywebster (Jun 9, 2017)

Very likely that bottled nutrients do contain most of those products, I wanted to add more, especially the humic acid to use along side the kelp. May or may not make a difference. I was ordering Yukka anyway and got a bit carried away.
For kelp I was using Shropshire sea weed but when I ran out I just picked up a bottle from wilko for £5. Their own brand.
It looks as you would expect, the Shropshire stuff looked more like piss but is apparently refined in a different way.
I had a brief look for base salts earlier after a revisit to the reverse engineering thread, came across this site. http://www.yara.co.uk/crop-nutrition/fertiliser/
I was looking through some of their range and they do various ready to dissolve whole mixes and individual salts, they will also tweak certain mixes too. Will have to find out the prices. They seem to sell massive sacks of the stuff so I imagine its cheap as chips.
I'm sure there are plenty more places to get them, I just googled agricultural fertilisers.
I will have to revisit open salts, last time I looked I couldn't find his site.

These guys seem to have most soluble salts but I'm not sure if the prices are competitive
http://www.gardendirect.co.uk/PotassiumNitrate
Not checked all the links but might be some useful ones on here
http://www.grow.co.uk/horticulture/fertilisers.htm

https://mistralni.co.uk/collections/powders/products/potassium-sulphate


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## JDMase (Jun 11, 2017)

Sorry for the blurry pic I wanted to take it quickly just after lights off. This is Kings kush.



This is black dog.

What do you guys think of the bud development? It's been a while since I have done photos and I feel my autos were much bigger at this stage, in around the week 5 territory now.

I can't help but feel me going easy on the nutes has played a part. Ive upped to 750 ppm this week. Roughly 300 ppm tap water.


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## JDMase (Jun 13, 2017)

Updates in a couple hours. Some bud candy, big bud and bud factor X on the way by advanced nutrients. May be a bit late for these but ive got the grapefruit progressing now, albeit with the same looking def as the Kings kush minus the leaf curling inwards. Im thinking its a potassium def but ive been using potassium silicate as I thought that would help?

Gonna try a foliar of it tonight and just mix up a fresh batch of floranova bloom only.

They had a leach yesterday as I read the schedule on GH website and it recommends Every 1-3 days run fresh water through the medium. Didn't realise that! Oops.

http://gh.growgh.com/docs/Feedcharts/GH_FloraNova-DTW_03216am.pdf


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## coreywebster (Jun 13, 2017)

JD I was in wilkos earlier and found they sell potassium sulphate for about £5 per 1.5kg

Looking forward to seeing the bud porn later.


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## ttystikk (Jun 13, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Updates in a couple hours. Some bud candy, big bud and bud factor X on the way by advanced nutrients. May be a bit late for these but ive got the grapefruit progressing now, albeit with the same looking def as the Kings kush minus the leaf curling inwards. Im thinking its a potassium def but ive been using potassium silicate as I thought that would help?
> 
> Gonna try a foliar of it tonight and just mix up a fresh batch of floranova bloom only.
> 
> ...


You know Bud Factor X is just epsom salts, right?


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## JDMase (Jun 13, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> You know Bud Factor X is just epsom salts, right?


Glad I just bought 30ml sample then haha. Thanks for the heads up.


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## JDMase (Jun 14, 2017)

I'll edit later and write what each is, for now enjoy the pics!

1. Black dog middle bud
2. Black dog top row of buds, I regret topping them but I do like how the line of buds turned out. 
3.black dog bottom bud
4. Black dog top bud 
5. Kings kush bottom bud
6. Kings kush top bud (main cola, not topped)
7. Grapefruit krush with some Def showing, I expect due to the air layer?
8. Bottom bud of grapefruit. Closest to the light so more developed than the top. 

Can't wait to get a 2nd CMH so I can even out the differences between top and bottom buds. At the moment im moving the one bulb up and down day by day to get even coverage. 

My friend came round and had a look and suggested my king kush leaf curling could be due to the bulb being so low down compared to the height of the plant - so the leaves are twisting toward the light. 

Anybody else doing verts agree?


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## DST (Jun 14, 2017)

Cool work for your first vertical. Everyones set up is different and you'll eventually figure how to get 100% capacity (i.e 4 walls around your light). Next run try a plant on the 4th side and have the trellis or whatever attached to the pot you are using (mobile vertical). Its what i do as i hate seeing wall lol. Good luck.
Peace
DST

Heres an example of what i mean. This is just using stakes and trellis wire. The plants can be manipulated quite a lot (often more than you would expect). Most bushes can be verticalised (lol)without loosing much growth imo.

I'll take a sideways shot next time i water.


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## JDMase (Jun 14, 2017)

DST said:


> Cool work for your first vertical. Everyones set up is different and you'll eventually figure how to get 100% capacity (i.e 4 walls around your light). Next run try a plant on the 4th side and have the trellis or whatever attached to the pot you are using (mobile vertical). Its what i do as i hate seeing wall lol. Good luck.
> Peace
> DST
> 
> ...


Hey man thanks for the tip, I was considering running some small autos on the front wall, but maybe I should just trellis that too. Having them be able to move around would be handy!


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## JDMase (Jun 14, 2017)

Updated the pics with descriptions above


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## JDMase (Jun 14, 2017)

This is the main cola of the candy kush auto, weighing in at 5 grams but it's not clean trimmed or fully cured yet. Moisture is at around 65-70% in the jar before burping. 
I reckon ive got another 10 grams so yeah maybe a half oz plant. Smallest ive ever grown. If you were here earlier you'll know I accidently stunted it not realising it was an auto. Still a good result. Some nice smoke to last me until the big harvest next month. Thank god. 

My crohns has been awful lately! Back on the docs meds


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## gr865 (Jun 14, 2017)

JDMase said:


> View attachment 3960715
> My crohns has been awful lately! Back on the docs meds


I was making oil for my son's mother and she was doing so well but her Dr. put her on steroids and she quit taking the oil, saying that the roids have stopped her pain.
I and my wellness guru have both told her the dangers of anabolic steroids. I was on them for 14 months in 94 and they about killed me coming off of them. I gained 90 while taking them and that took me over two yrs to get rid of that weight. 
So we are working to get her back on the oils.

GR


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## JDMase (Jun 14, 2017)

gr865 said:


> I was making oil for my son's mother and she was doing so well but her Dr. put her on steroids and she quit taking the oil, saying that the roids have stopped her pain.
> I and my wellness guru have both told her the dangers of anabolic steroids. I was on them for 14 months in 94 and they about killed me coming off of them. I gained 90 while taking them and that took me over two yrs to get rid of that weight.
> So we are working to get her back on the oils.
> 
> GR


I would be surprised if they're anabolic steroids, I have been on corticosteroids prednisolone, there's also prednisone. Very similar albeit that they actually reduce your muscle mass, I had none anyway being bed bound for 6 months, Nil by mouth for 3 months, went down to 9-10 stone from my "very" healtby 16-17 stone. Im now up to 22 stone and trying to get it back down now.

They sent my mind loopy, ive not been the same since. Quick to anger and plenty of anxiety and depression to boot.

Took me 9 months just to taper off them! Not to mention the year to come off 30/500 cocodomols.

Steroids are just a mask really, they don't cure the underlying problems and they should only be used if nothing else is working - a last resort.

I currently have bimonthly infliximab infusions with azathioprine and allopurinol along with folic acid supplements.

Damn drugs give me headaches and stomach aches. A funny side effect for a drug to help stomach problems..

I can't complain though, I had the best doctor in the country which I paid for privately as the NHS in this area have no clue what to do. I damn near died thanks to them! 

I hope your relative feels better soon, edibles really do help my symptoms the best. I like to make coconut oil with soy lecithin. I use mainly thc as that helps with pain and inflammation but im wondering whether I need higher amounts of CBD.


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## gr865 (Jun 14, 2017)

Yes JD I was on prednisone, bad shit.
I have just started an oil program for the arthritis in my back.


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## JDMase (Jun 14, 2017)

gr865 said:


> Yes JD I was on prednisone, bad shit.
> I have just started an oil program for the arthritis in my back.


Do you use cbd or thc for that? Or a mixture. Ive heard that the more different ones the better!


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## DST (Jun 14, 2017)

I'd recommend using oil from the full plant. I think theres a lot in the plant we don't know about and the effects things like terpenes etc have. Also from my experience from people i know using cbd oil and normal oil. Maybe it was the quality of cbd oil....who knows. All i know is normal oil seems to work for a lot of ailments.


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## gr865 (Jun 14, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Do you use cbd or thc for that? Or a mixture. Ive heard that the more different ones the better!





DST said:


> I'd recommend using oil from the full plant. I think theres a lot in the plant we don't know about and the effects things like terpenes etc have. Also from my experience from people i know using cbd oil and normal oil. Maybe it was the quality of cbd oil....who knows. All i know is normal oil seems to work for a lot of ailments.


Yes JD and DST, I use full plant but I also make a batch with pure buds, no leaf or shake. I normally will mix the two of those together but keep a few grams of the pure bud oil.

GR


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## JDMase (Jun 15, 2017)

My air layer worked. 

This is tangie. The cube had dried out so I just gave it a quick spray and was like damn I need to take a pic for the grow journal. I haven't checked the grapefruit one which is in flower but I will do at lights on. 

So notes for the future - nitrogen def on the whole plant and what looks to be mag def on the leaves above the air layer. I guess a foliar could help with that? 

Some of those issues may be due to cramped space now they've vegged far bigger than the 60x60 cm tent they are in. 

Only the one long root shooting out so im unsure whether to cut it yet or get more established, but I think when I do chop it I'll go straight into a 3" Rockwool cube. Maybe 100ppm of nutes? 

What do you guys think?


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## ttystikk (Jun 15, 2017)

JDMase said:


> View attachment 3961348
> My air layer worked.
> 
> This is tangie. The cube had dried out so I just gave it a quick spray and was like damn I need to take a pic for the grow journal. I haven't checked the grapefruit one which is in flower but I will do at lights on.
> ...


All those white nubs are rooting sites getting started. Put it in soil and she should take off. Keep her in humid conditions for a few days so it doesn't dry out.


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## JDMase (Jun 16, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> All those white nubs are rooting sites getting started. Put it in soil and she should take off. Keep her in humid conditions for a few days so it doesn't dry out.


Ive not got any soil here tty I only have rockwool croutons or cubes. Should I get soil?


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## ttystikk (Jun 16, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Ive not got any soil here tty I only have rockwool croutons or cubes. Should I get soil?


Whatever media you're using.


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## JDMase (Jun 16, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Whatever media you're using.


Cool! I think I'll have to cover that area quite well when I do chop it with rockwool. Maybe cut it and insert it into that gap... Hmm


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## JDMase (Jun 16, 2017)

RO water with a feed of half dose AN products and full dose of hydroguard. 600ish ppm nutes. 

I just measured CMH bulb distance from plants, around 11-13 inches. Doesn't my distance need to be more like 18? I thought I'd be fine but maybe this is the cause of some of my issues?


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## gr865 (Jun 19, 2017)

JD, 
The lights here were around 10" from the plants and I had a few branches grow into the lamps. Today I removed them all did some work on them and when they went back into the tent i back them up to around 15". Don't back them off so far you start losing any benefits of the light.

GR


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## JDMase (Jun 19, 2017)

gr865 said:


> JD,
> The lights here were around 10" from the plants and I had a few branches grow into the lamps. Today I removed them all did some work on them and when they went back into the tent i back them up to around 15". Don't back them off so far you start losing any benefits of the light.
> 
> GR


Ive had some light burn, im not sure if that's from me moving the lamp to water the back wall, I'll leave it be for now, got some good bud development happening on the black dog now. Kings Kush is lagging still due to issues.


----------



## JDMase (Jun 21, 2017)

As with candy, the black dog is nearing finish but is lacking density and bud size. Especially from what im used to from 600w HPS. Am I doing something wrong?
It's not really taking up much water lately, it has been hot here, as high as 33c.humidity 50% roughly too.. Is this a factor?

What can I do?


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 21, 2017)

JDMase said:


> As with candy, the black dog is nearing finish but is lacking density and bud size. Especially from what im used to from 600w HPS. Am I doing something wrong?
> It's not really taking up much water lately, it has been hot here, as high as 33c.humidity 50% roughly too.. Is this a factor?
> 
> What can I do?


I'm surprised it isn't taking more water.


----------



## JDMase (Jun 22, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm surprised it isn't taking more water.


Ive had this a few times, towards the end of the cycle, I'll water the same amount and it'll just flood the cube. The cube where it would normally be drying by the next watering won't be. Not to mention ive got 1 metre slabs below it now for the past 2 weeks. Maybe the root mass has expanded and its drinking elsewhere? Doesn't explain all the previous times this has happened when not adding medium. 

Pretty disappointing yields expected this grow.


----------



## coreywebster (Jun 22, 2017)

Did you ever get your trays you were after? I would abandon using rockwool until you have an aeriated res and and automated system. Just seems your using a hydro medium without the benefit of a hydro system and it has to be contributing to the problems you've had this run.
P.S I am biased I hate rockwool.
Build yourself a ebb and flood system. use hydroton instead of rockwool.


----------



## coreywebster (Jun 22, 2017)

JD have you been following Sedan's vert thread?


----------



## JDMase (Jun 22, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Did you ever get your trays you were after? I would abandon using rockwool until you have an aeriated res and and automated system. Just seems your using a hydro medium without the benefit of a hydro system and it has to be contributing to the problems you've had this run.
> P.S I am biased I hate rockwool.
> Build yourself a ebb and flood system. use hydroton instead of rockwool.


Yep I got them! Putting them in tonight! My next task will be to set up an automated watering system. 
I don't think hand watering is a bad thing, ive looked pretty extensively and there is no problem with top feeding by hand. Gonna keep at it until im out of rockwool (around 9 more plants) and I can always switch to coco. 

I think I stuck at Low PPM's for too long and having my timer set from 9pm to 9am has limited my time with the plants.


----------



## JDMase (Jun 22, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> JD have you been following Sedan's vert thread?


Na man link me to it? Haven't been on here much lately!


----------



## coreywebster (Jun 22, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Na man link me to it? Haven't been on here much lately!


https://www.rollitup.org/t/vert-600-400-5-plant-from-ukraine-with-love.938560/

This dude is a legend and humble to boot.


----------



## coreywebster (Jun 22, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Yep I got them! Putting them in tonight! My next task will be to set up an automated watering system.
> I don't think hand watering is a bad thing, ive looked pretty extensively and there is no problem with top feeding by hand. Gonna keep at it until im out of rockwool (around 9 more plants) and I can always switch to coco.
> 
> I think I stuck at Low PPM's for too long and having my timer set from 9pm to 9am has limited my time with the plants.


Yeah I looked long and hard myself into hand watering rockwool after seeing your issues. Although I saw folks saying its fine I just think the lack of an aeriated tank and constant feed or timed feed takes away some of the benefits of hydro.

That's said I'm glad you finally got those trays so you can give it a good go next run.


----------



## JDMase (Jun 22, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Yeah I looked long and hard myself into hand watering rockwool after seeing your issues. Although I saw folks saying its fine I just think the lack of an aeriated tank and constant feed or timed feed takes away some of the benefits of hydro.
> 
> That's said I'm glad you finally got those trays so you can give it a good go next run.


Yeah the main problem has been not being able to fully flood the medium, and not able to do it more than once a day as I like to leave two hours before the last feed and I'll be fucked if im getting up at 6:30 am to water plants lol. Amongst other things 

Autoflowers were so much easier for me in Rockwool. I got amazing buds and big yields. I think that's why im so pissed because I put so much time into the veg of these. 

I need to figure out a irrigation method. I would like a timer to go on a water butt and just gave a gravity feed system. Dunno if that's possible. I don't really have anymore plug sockets for a pump you see.


----------



## JDMase (Jun 22, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/t/vert-600-400-5-plant-from-ukraine-with-love.938560/
> 
> This dude is a legend and humble to boot.


Yeah man ive seen this guys stuff! I know who you mean now


----------



## DST (Jun 22, 2017)

Have you ever thought about just using soil or even coco? Or are you stuck on using a hydro method? I posted some pics of my moveable vert plant on the UK growers thread (sorry, forgot I said I would post a pic here). I use 1 tray (about 100litres I think) and a pot about 50litres. The moveable plant is normally in a 11 to 20 litre pot depending on its size. I water every 3rd day (sometimes 2nd day for the moveable one). I normally have around 4 plants in a 1.2m squared.


----------



## coreywebster (Jun 22, 2017)

Timer on a water butt. I had been thinking about this myself for my strawberrys outside. I'm sure there must be something available.
Would of thought power supply would be needed though, can you imagine if the timer ran on a battery and it went dead and didn't shut off the water supply!


----------



## DST (Jun 22, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Timer on a water butt. I had been thinking about this myself for my strawberrys outside. I'm sure there must be something available.
> Would of thought power supply would be needed though, can you imagine if the timer ran on a battery and it went dead and didn't shut off the water supply!


I've thought about this when going on holiday. Installing a drip system or such like. But yey, para about it soaking all the downstairs neighbours if something goes wrong. lol.


----------



## coreywebster (Jun 22, 2017)

DST said:


> I've thought about this when going on holiday. Installing a drip system or such like. But yey, para about it soaking all the downstairs neighbours if something goes wrong. lol.


That's how one of my mates got busted. He had a whole house "in use", every room. A pump stayed on and flooded through into next door. Fire brigade had to bust the door down and then phoned the law...


----------



## JDMase (Jun 22, 2017)

DST said:


> Have you ever thought about just using soil or even coco? Or are you stuck on using a hydro method? I posted some pics of my moveable vert plant on the UK growers thread (sorry, forgot I said I would post a pic here). I use 1 tray (about 100litres I think) and a pot about 50litres. The moveable plant is normally in a 11 to 20 litre pot depending on its size. I water every 3rd day (sometimes 2nd day for the moveable one). I normally have around 4 plants in a 1.2m squared.


Yeah I specifically chose rockwool because I didn't want to use soil and coco. I liked hydro but didn't want to worry about bubblers and water temps etc. Rockwool seemed to tick the boxes and my first grows impressed me. Was getting as good a yield as my friends in hydro and 2 years experience. 

Im probably going to try to perfect rockwool yknow. This was my first go doing this method - a lot of variables changed. 

Most people have issues with other mediums and don't give up after one go, so im gonna give it a fair chance!


----------



## JDMase (Jun 22, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Timer on a water butt. I had been thinking about this myself for my strawberrys outside. I'm sure there must be something available.
> Would of thought power supply would be needed though, can you imagine if the timer ran on a battery and it went dead and didn't shut off the water supply!


I found something a while back that would work, if I find it I'll post it here and tag you.


----------



## JDMase (Jun 22, 2017)

picture update 

Black dog


----------



## JDMase (Jun 22, 2017)

Kings kush


----------



## JDMase (Jun 22, 2017)

Grapefruit krush


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## JDMase (Jun 23, 2017)

Dutch leach tray update 


Damn im sweating. Me and my gf just put them in on the black dog and grapefruit. 

They don't fit! 

So the trays are 1 metre long, my tent is 1 metre wide. With the elbows on the side for drainage? No chance. 

Im going to have to buy a slightly larger tent. Ive managed to fit them in slightly diagonally but I can't use the drainage holes so im gonna buy a hand suction pump so drain them. Next best thing. 

The shopping list is constantly growing, and funds arent. Seems like a bottomless pit of money right now. The gift that keeps not giving haha. 

On the positive I'll now be able to flood the 1 metre rockwool completely - remove salt build ups and better irrigate them. That's a plus. 

Anyone got any deals on 1.1metre+ tents?


----------



## gr865 (Jun 23, 2017)

Tent size?
active aqua make s 48" od tray.
Thats what I got and works ok.


----------



## coreywebster (Jun 24, 2017)

1.2x1.2m is the most popular tent size going, there's some really cheap one available.

I here these are good. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hydropnics-Grow-Room-Tent-Greenhouse-Box-Bud-Dark-Room-0-8m-1m-1-2m-2-4m-2m-UK-/252797198174?var=&hash=item3adbe31f5e:m:mkLqSptAhnbADDkMrrTu-eQ

Theres a lot in the range of £60-£75

Don't know if your going to put one of those trays on all 4 walls, if you are then you might need a 1.5x1.5m tent. (depends on width of trays)


----------



## JDMase (Jun 24, 2017)

So my idea was to have two trays parallel and the adjacent tray would rest upon the end of the two parallel ones, sort of like a U shape.
I only need an extra inch or two - story of my life.

I think the 1.2x1.2 tent would do the job. Im going to try and make it work for now. I just need some rubber hose so I'll be down b&q tomorrow to see if I can find some.

Ive got an oil sucker I can slide down the side of the rockwool to extract the water stuck in there for now. 

Someone's coming to view my Honda s2000 today, hopefully they buy it so I can really up my grow game.

My shopping list is new tents, more cmh's and some extraction fans. Was considering going cobs but I can't be diying I need something plug and play.


----------



## coreywebster (Jun 24, 2017)

Yeah I love my cobs but for what your doing I think the CMH is the better option. I love my CMH too. The spectrum is awesome.
£200 for a maxbrite and Philips bulb. cant go wrong.
Hope car sells.


----------



## JDMase (Jun 24, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Yeah I love my cobs but for what your doing I think the CMH is the better option. I love my CMH too. The spectrum is awesome.
> £200 for a maxbrite and Philips bulb. cant go wrong.
> Hope car sells.


I had the same thought, 2 CMH per tent, 3 flower tents is the eventual plan 

Nope! Didn't sell. The bloke brought a plonker who knew nothing about cars to give him advice. Walked away from it! Frustrating to say the least. 

If you're going to view a car - don't get someone who knows nothing to give you advice! 

He pointed to the brake fluid reservoir and said "that's going to need changing" even though I did it in February? Asked me when the shocks were last changed too.. Didn't even bounce te suspension just said "it's a little hard to tell" wow


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 24, 2017)

JDMase said:


> I had the same thought, 2 CMH per tent, 3 flower tents is the eventual plan
> 
> Nope! Didn't sell. The bloke brought a plonker who knew nothing about cars to give him advice. Walked away from it! Frustrating to say the least.
> 
> ...


Put it in the ad for a couple thousand more than you want to sell it for, then tell the customer that you're really desperate to move it and you'll cut the price lol


----------



## JDMase (Jun 25, 2017)

So, the black dog is mostly amber pistills and receeded, trichomes look cloudy/milky, could this be the fastest flower time ever? Im gonna count the weeks and days to make sure now.. Will update.


----------



## JDMase (Jun 25, 2017)

Flipped 10th may, 6 weeks and 4 days. So that's 46 days right? Wow. I could chop this at day 50 to 55, that's fast.


----------



## JDMase (Jun 26, 2017)

Does anyone else get dead leaves and underdeveloped buds behind the screen? 

For some reason I thought that as the canopy is only 1-2" thick Id get good penetration - but I havent? 

Surely defoliators aren't correct when they say "leaves impede bud growth"?!


----------



## JDMase (Jun 27, 2017)

Accidentally snapped a branch, couldve repaired it but I decided to stick it into a Rockwool cube and see if it revegged or even rooted. It's in a humidity dome, warm room, im hoping that's enough to get it to root.
My last cuttings had the benefit of lovely warm weather heating the window sill.

Considering a heat pad but I hate spending money until I can perfect my grow methods. Starting to feel like a money pit these days.


----------



## gr865 (Jun 27, 2017)

Good luck with that, the branch is fairly mature so most hormones or going to produce that bud, not roots. I have tried and never got them to take. 
Hell dry it, rollitup, and smoke it. 

GR


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 27, 2017)

gr865 said:


> Good luck with that, the branch is fairly mature so most hormones or going to produce that bud, not roots. I have tried and never got them to take.
> Hell dry it, rollitup, and smoke it.
> 
> GR


I've seen buds like that reveg. It takes patience.


----------



## gr865 (Jun 27, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I've seen buds like that reveg. It takes patience.


Reminds me of a black lite poster I had in the 60's, it was of two vultures sitting in a dead tree in the middle of no where and one says to the other:

Fuck patience, I'm gonna kill something!

LOL
GR


----------



## BabyAndaconda420 (Jul 3, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Kings kush
> 
> View attachment 3965323 View attachment 3965324


Is this Kings kush any good


----------



## JDMase (Jul 3, 2017)

BabyAndaconda420 said:


> Is this Kings kush any good


Smells incredible, grew really fast and lushious leaves to boot. Mines got an unknown issue that I can't identify nor get rid of. Im tempted to say bad genetics? But more likely temperamental from being tied up.

It's worth a go, most people have said its the best smelling plant ive grown yet.


----------



## JDMase (Jul 3, 2017)

Update - I decided to chop the black dog. No pics but I will post some of the haul once it's dried abit. 

I decided that it had done most of its growth, wasn't going to produce more and I was going to chop it and do some damage control. 

Ive got two very eager plants waiting to go in its place. I think of the two tangie will be next, Pineapple Express in place of the KK. 

My air layered tangie clone has rooted in the 3" cube! My Pineapple Express clones are still yet to pop roots or grow in any kind of way. More updates coming this week.


----------



## BabyAndaconda420 (Jul 3, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Smells incredible, grew really fast and lushious leaves to boot. Mines got an unknown issue that I can't identify nor get rid of. Im tempted to say bad genetics? But more likely temperamental from being tied up.
> 
> It's worth a go, most people have said its the best smelling plant ive grown yet.


Thanks for the fast response,I guess I might give it a run at some me point. Of kush x Grape ape just sounds to good..


----------



## JDMase (Jul 7, 2017)

High humidity and temperatures here are killing my yields. Wish I could afford an air con unit. Humidities of 85% in flower and as high as 32c in lights on and off and not lower than 24c and 50% humidity. Also had 2 days of not watering and came back from a weekend away with chronically underwatered plants.... My own fault. Need an auto irrigation system in place very soon.

Got a tangie in the flower room now looking huge and bushy, high hopes for her. 

Kings Kush starting to hermi so it'll get chopped tomorrow.. It's similar to black dog, small airy buds.. Im putting it down to the heat problems ive had for that. The size isn't great. Ive got tangie and pineapple and were comig up to winter so if I can't get good produce from them I'll go back to autos, seemed to do much better with them.


----------



## gr865 (Jul 7, 2017)

JD, 
Good luck with the humidity. I am worried about that too, 5 weeks tomorrow and the humidity continues to rise. I am going to start my A/C this week.
Can't wait to see that black dog, what do you think caused the KK to hermy on you?
GR


----------



## JDMase (Jul 8, 2017)

gr865 said:


> JD,
> Good luck with the humidity. I am worried about that too, 5 weeks tomorrow and the humidity continues to rise. I am going to start my A/C this week.
> Can't wait to see that black dog, what do you think caused the KK to hermy on you?
> GR


I wish I had an a/c! Without one this grow has gone from being semi viable to almost a complete loss. Fortunately I have some good friends that will take it off me regardless of bag appeal. The smoke is absolutely excellent. A complete couch lock exactly as described by HSO. Me and my gf smoked one at 4pm and we just laid around the apartment all day and then slept at 10pm and woke up completely refreshed! We love it but it's definitely a night cap smoke. 
Unfortunately all of the buds are airy and popcorn-like. But I can take some pictures if you like. Could've kept it going for longer too. Ended up with only 57grams dried. Not great for 4 months of growing. 

I expect the consistent issues with KK the seemingly unexplainable leaf drooping (potential root rot, although I treated it as such and couldn't figure it out.) and the extremely high temps and humidities probably caused the hermi. 

Good think about growing vert is that each bud is easily visible so ive caught it straight away.


----------



## JDMase (Jul 8, 2017)

Just chopped the Kings kush, this thing smells like oranges and grapefruit!! I have some more denser looking buds so despite the issues, it has out performed the BD in that respect. Even my hands smell of fruit and ive only pruned the fans

Grapefruit krush about 4-5 weeks in has ditched lots of leaves due to the underwatering. Pictures to follow.


----------



## JDMase (Jul 8, 2017)

Kings kush before the chop.


----------



## JDMase (Jul 8, 2017)

Grapefruit krush, so gutted this has gone the way of the others..


----------



## JDMase (Jul 8, 2017)

Tangie, a new method will follow this. Floranova bloom, molasses, potentially aminos and definitely bud candy, thanks @Fevs for the recommendation on that, made my Kings kush smell incredible.


----------



## JDMase (Jul 8, 2017)

As you can see the tangie here is filling up the screen much nicer than the others have, Pineapple Express will be going in the KK's place tomorrow. Similar sized. Can't wait  

Question is, what strain next? Fingers crossed something good in store.. Recommendations welcomed.


----------



## JDMase (Jul 11, 2017)

The two smaller Pineapple Express clones are starting to veg now, but for some reason the tangie air layered clone is drooping. I have given higher PPM's, amended ph and as a last resort flushed with plain tap, nothing ive done has made a difference. Any ideas? It feels light enough that it will need to be watered tonight. 

Leaves look a little dark too. N tox?


----------



## JDMase (Jul 11, 2017)

Pineapple Express went in yesterday. 

Grapefruit has ditched almost all of its leaves, must be a defol believer lol. It looks almost done, again, no real sizeable buds. 

Deciding whether it's my CMH light or the nutrients and lack of ppm's. So ive fed 1000ppm (300 tap Included) for all of them, might be too much for the pineapple and tangie, but we will see


----------



## JDMase (Jul 16, 2017)

Potentially figured out my issues with my previous grow in regards to the Kings Kush. 

I just read the label on the potassium silicate. It is in fact 1ml per 10 litres, not 1ml per 1 litre.. 

Oops. 

Glad I caught it though. Final yields for the KK was a disappointing 3.1 oz and the black dog 2.5 oz. 

Black dog has been the best though, my friend called me from a festival to say it's the best weed he's ever smoked. It's a real knock you out strain, proper pain killing. Lovely aromas and smells. With a 55 day flower time it will be something I grow again for sure.. 

Kings kush, a distinct grapefruit smell, unfortunately the potency isn't there because of the persistent issues I had I expect. But the smoke is odd. It's a real indica, but I don't get fuzzy eyes, im almost as alert as when I smoke a sativa, I can completely function, I could smoke it and smoke it and be fine, but then it slowly creeps on you and all you want to do is sleep. 11 hours last night! Great woke up feeling refreshed.


----------



## ovo (Jul 16, 2017)

A spray of hydrogen peroxide will stop the algae on your rockwool cubes.


----------



## gr865 (Jul 16, 2017)

We all learn from our mistakes!


----------



## JDMase (Jul 16, 2017)

gr865 said:


> We all learn from our mistakes!


Yep! I got complacent, overthought rather than going back to basics. Onwards and upwards


----------



## JDMase (Jul 16, 2017)

ovo said:


> A spray of hydrogen peroxide will stop the algae on your rockwool cubes.


I'll give that a go! Thanks


----------



## JDMase (Jul 19, 2017)

Tangie


----------



## JDMase (Jul 19, 2017)

Pineapple express


----------



## JDMase (Jul 19, 2017)

Grapefruit


----------



## JDMase (Jul 20, 2017)

JDMase said:


> View attachment 3981000
> 
> Grapefruit


This is an example of a potassium silicate toxicity couldn't find one on the web so I did one for you myself! 

Haha


----------



## JDMase (Jul 23, 2017)

Tangie at about 1.75metres tall. 

Just got back from Belgium and my girl kept them watered twice a day, low ppm in the morning before they turn off and high PPM's in the evening when they wake up, seems to be really working.


----------



## JDMase (Jul 23, 2017)

Pineapple Express - 2 days behind the tangie, thriving  im not gonna update on grapefruit as it's pretty much dead. No worries though I have 3 oz of kings Kush to get through. I expect the tangie and pineapple to be done in maybe September, grapefruit I can chop anytime.. Maybe next week. I'll probably just get half an ounce from her.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 23, 2017)

JDMase said:


> View attachment 3983116
> 
> Pineapple Express - 1 week behind the tangie, thriving  im not gonna update on grapefruit as it's pretty much dead. No worries though I have 3 oz of kings Kush to get through. I expect the tangie and pineapple to be done in maybe September, grapefruit I can chop anytime.. Maybe next week. I'll probably just get half an ounce from her.


Good looking plants, brother.


----------



## JDMase (Jul 23, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Good looking plants, brother.


Thanks mate! Been a long time coming haha!


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 23, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Thanks mate! Been a long time coming haha!


I knows that feeling!


----------



## JDMase (Aug 1, 2017)

Tangie


----------



## JDMase (Aug 1, 2017)

Pineapple Express


----------



## JDMase (Aug 1, 2017)

Tangie 3 weeks and 4 days.

Pineapple Express 3 weeks exactly. 

My tangie air layer clone died but my Pineapple Express clones are both in their 6" hugo blocks for around 5 days now. Have germinated some more seeds.

Afghan Kush Ryder auto
Skywalker kush
Sapphire OG
Sage n Sour
grapefruit krush (gotta try it again - chopping the failed one tonight)


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 1, 2017)

Looking good!


----------



## JDMase (Aug 1, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Looking good!


Yes! I left them for 4 days whilst I went abroad for a friends wedding to Europe. I asked a trusted friend to water them but he managed one watering on Friday, came round Sunday and couldn't get the PH right so left it, so they went 2 days without water but im not thinking that's a bad thing at this point they look absolutely fine.

Wondering what supplements to use this grow. I think I like bud candy which I used samples of. Im looking into the canna line of additives but I haven't got a clue what the "best" ones are. Any info guys?


----------



## coreywebster (Aug 1, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Yes! I left them for 4 days whilst I went abroad for a friends wedding to Europe. I asked a trusted friend to water them but he managed one watering on Friday, came round Sunday and couldn't get the PH right so left it, so they went 2 days without water but im not thinking that's a bad thing at this point they look absolutely fine.
> 
> Wondering what supplements to use this grow. I think I like bud candy which I used samples of. Im looking into the canna line of additives but I haven't got a clue what the "best" ones are. Any info guys?


Canna is simple. 2 part base A+B. PK 13/14 mid flower, rhizo for roots and stress(optional) cannazym for dead root matter (optional)
Canna Boost for carbs and fulvic/amino and some other magic shit . (expensive)

Edit, by magic shit I mean things they don't tell you.


----------



## gr865 (Aug 1, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Canna is simple. 2 part base A+B. PK 13/14 mid flower, rhizo for roots and stress(optional) cannazym for dead root matter (optional)
> Canna Boost for carbs and fulvic/amino and some other magic shit . (expensive)
> 
> Edit, by magic shit I mean things they don't tell you.


I agree totally, love them nutes.
Rates are not written in stone, remember Less is More!


----------



## JDMase (Aug 1, 2017)

http://www.growell.co.uk/grow-lights/gavita-lighting/600-watt-400v-gavita-pro-classic-complete-lighting-system.html?utm_campaign=Re-target_people_who_have_visited_your_site&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

This is only £80 more than the CMH 315w maxibright kit I was going to get.. Anyone know the pros and cons versus it?


----------



## JDMase (Aug 1, 2017)

gr865 said:


> I agree totally, love them nutes.
> Rates are not written in stone, remember Less is More!


My friend uses canna and I wanted to use the kiss method when I started so I went with GH.. Now that im feeling more confident im wondering whether I should use canna or house and garden. Pretty similar apparently. Ideally I want to end up mixing my own dry nutes using the guide on here but I'll save that for a future project.


----------



## JDMase (Aug 1, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Canna is simple. 2 part base A+B. PK 13/14 mid flower, rhizo for roots and stress(optional) cannazym for dead root matter (optional)
> Canna Boost for carbs and fulvic/amino and some other magic shit . (expensive)
> 
> Edit, by magic shit I mean things they don't tell you.


Ive seen a company called vitalink that do fulvic and amino bottles fairly cheap.. £12 a bottle or something, I like that the bottles actually say what they are rather than a gimmicky name. 

Also know that aminos you can get from Holland & barratt so I dont think Id splash out for those unless the Magic stuff is actual magic haha. I want to knock the socks off this next grow though so I don't mind splashing out on the whole line up if it's worth it. Don't wanna be that guy that the hydro shop owner rubs his hands together for though haha.


----------



## JDMase (Aug 2, 2017)

Went down to the local hydro shop, blokes really nice and doesn't ever try and push sales. Thing is I wanted some additions to my feed schedules but he is of the opinion that more is more to go wrong and to keep it simple. And I think that's good advice.

I want a cheaper alternative to hydroguard though, it's like £15 for a small bottle and I use it every feed and it is quite expensive. Surely there's something else out there cheaper?

He recommended hydrotops, anyone used it? Reviews online aren't great.

My friend said canna and people here have suggested canna and house and garden.

What do you guys recommend as good additions to base nutrients? Must haves that you can't do without.

At the moment im using floranova base nutes, hydroguard and bud candy. I did use bud factor X And big bud but I didn't see much improvement in my plants but maybe I was too late. The bud candy definitely improves smells thought, Im in week three now.

Looked at floranovas stuff but I don't think my guy stocks it. He has plant Magic and canna And some other stuff I didn't get round to looking at (cyco and hydrotops I think)


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 2, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Went down to the local hydro shop, blokes really nice and doesn't ever try and push sales. Thing is I wanted some additions to my feed schedules but he is of the opinion that more is more to go wrong and to keep it simple. And I think that's good advice.
> 
> I want a cheaper alternative to hydroguard though, it's like £15 for a small bottle and I use it every feed and it is quite expensive. Surely there's something else out there cheaper?
> 
> ...


The more you learn about nutrients, the you'll save;
Bud Factor X is just epsom salt.


----------



## coreywebster (Aug 2, 2017)

I don't think there's much that works wonders. Your hydro guy is right and its nice to hear him say to keep things simple.
I think you can just go with canna base nutes and a PK booster. . Foliar spray amino acids and kelp in veg? A bit of simple magnesium sulphate? Some silica to keep the plant strong and more resistant.
I am giving buddas tree pk 18/19 a try instead of the usual canna pk 13/14. Doing so because my canna nutes are for both veg and flower, same two bottles all the way through. I want to give less N and more PK in flower, so cutting the base dose down but using a higher PK and earlier than the week 5 which is suggested for PK 13/14. Gona see if I can see a difference. I have cut the boost out, adding some refined molasses cane to feed the microbes.

You have had some serious issue this grow, until they are eliminated no products are going to make much of a difference and I don't think there's massive differences to be seen even in a perfect situation. Maintaining a healthy plant and ideal environment seems to be the best way to increase potency and yield.


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## JDMase (Aug 2, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> I don't think there's much that works wonders. Your hydro guy is right and its nice to hear him say to keep things simple.
> I think you can just go with canna base nutes and a PK booster. . Foliar spray amino acids and kelp in veg? A bit of simple magnesium sulphate? Some silica to keep the plant strong and more resistant.
> I am giving buddas tree pk 18/19 a try instead of the usual canna pk 13/14. Doing so because my canna nutes are for both veg and flower, same two bottles all the way through. I want to give less N and more PK in flower, so cutting the base dose down but using a higher PK and earlier than the week 5 which is suggested for PK 13/14. Gona see if I can see a difference. I have cut the boost out, adding some refined molasses cane to feed the microbes.
> 
> You have had some serious issue this grow, until they are eliminated no products are going to make much of a difference and I don't think there's massive differences to be seen even in a perfect situation. Maintaining a healthy plant and ideal environment seems to be the best way to increase potency and yield.


The issues I had were down to me reading the potassium silicate leaflet wrong.. 1ml per 10 litres is the recommended dose I was chucking in 1ml per 1 litre... Oops. Everything has been fine since I just removed that.. Im dubious of using it again but im sure I'll rmeember the correct doses. 

So I could buy Epsom salts, amino acids from the health store and im sure I can find seaweed/kelp extract there too cheaply? 

Is anything else like boosts and stuff just PK boosters? I know my autos did yield me really well with just base nutrients but I really want this photoperiod grow to kick ass and my only IRL friend uses the whole canna line and gets 4.5oz + per plant consistently. 

I got more per plant with my dark devil auto grow just using 600w HPS and floranova bloom throughout but I guess that was a fluke haha. 

Thanks for your help guys, love this forum


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## JDMase (Aug 2, 2017)

@coreywebster i used molasses on my aforementioned auto grow and I thought it did great. I never used bennies or anything. My hydro guy said using straight molasses doesn't do anything. What're your thoughts? What do you use for microbes also? 

Also I have no ideal on foliar sprays, but I know they're good for rapid nutrient uptake. Any recommendations on that? Thanks mate


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## Jypsy Dog (Aug 2, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Went down to the local hydro shop, blokes really nice and doesn't ever try and push sales. Thing is I wanted some additions to my feed schedules but he is of the opinion that more is more to go wrong and to keep it simple. And I think that's good advice.
> 
> I want a cheaper alternative to hydroguard though, it's like £15 for a small bottle and I use it every feed and it is quite expensive. Surely there's something else out there cheaper?
> 
> ...


1000x more concentrated than Hydroguard. I use it in "Drops" not Ml. https://southernag.com/residential-products/garden-friendly-fungcde-12x1-pt/


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## coreywebster (Aug 2, 2017)

JDMase said:


> @coreywebster i used molasses on my aforementioned auto grow and I thought it did great. I never used bennies or anything. My hydro guy said using straight molasses doesn't do anything. What're your thoughts? What do you use for microbes also?
> 
> Also I have no ideal on foliar sprays, but I know they're good for rapid nutrient uptake. Any recommendations on that? Thanks mate


I believe the only benefit for molasses is just to feed the microbes. I used to use straight molasses when I first started and found it seemed to bung up my coco, so when I decided to use microbes I added the refined cane molasses because it dissolves better.
The microbes are just what I bought from the NPK guys, bloom microbes.
As for foliar feeding, its quick to act, doesn't effect your medium or result in build up. Kelp is great for foliar, many people find it really helps the overall health and resistance of the plant, it really is the closest thing to a magic product I have seen. I use wilkos own brand BTW. Silica is another great for foliar, if your using it that way it cant drop out of your nutrient mix. Its one of those things that plants normally have abundance of in nature but in bottled nutes it gets left out due to it precipitating.
Yeah if you can pick up amino acids from the health store then go for it, Epsom salts can be picked up in a chemist or super market but you can get huge amounts for a few quid on ebay.

I have friends who run just base nutes and do as well as I do. Mine always tastes better, but I believe that's in the drying and cure.
I have another friend who uses just tomato feed and thousands of watts of hps concentrated over a small area. He does really well.

All those issues you had and it was all down to the misinterpretation of the label, oh man, that's a real bummer. At least you know now.. Its like they say, less is more. So glad you have it figured out though. Its going to be awesome seeing things go the way they should from now on. You deserve an easy run this time man.


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## JDMase (Aug 2, 2017)

Jypsy Dog said:


> 1000x more concentrated than Hydroguard. I use it in "Drops" not Ml. https://southernag.com/residential-products/garden-friendly-fungcde-12x1-pt/


Wow so lawns and other plants must be way more sensitive than cannabis if you use in drops per gallon? It says spray solution so is it a foliar or a root innoculant? I use hydroguard in the nutrient feed, hope im not using it incorrectly. Got me doubting myself now! Haha!


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## JDMase (Aug 2, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> I believe the only benefit for molasses is just to feed the microbes. I used to use straight molasses when I first started and found it seemed to bung up my coco, so when I decided to use microbes I added the refined cane molasses because it dissolves better.
> The microbes are just what I bought from the NPK guys, bloom microbes.
> As for foliar feeding, its quick to act, doesn't effect your medium or result in build up. Kelp is great for foliar, many people find it really helps the overall health and resistance of the plant, it really is the closest thing to a magic product I have seen. I use wilkos own brand BTW. Silica is another great for foliar, if your using it that way it cant drop out of your nutrient mix. Its one of those things that plants normally have abundance of in nature but in bottled nutes it gets left out due to it precipitating.
> Yeah if you can pick up amino acids from the health store then go for it, Epsom salts can be picked up in a chemist or super market but you can get huge amounts for a few quid on ebay.
> ...


Yeah I used black strap molasses. The hydro guy told me that in Rockwool I should add coco (be easier if I was still using the rockwool croutons) because coco holds microbes and gives them a "place to live". I guess I could in theory do that, but im sure microbes work in rockwool? I dunno. 

So maybe I could foliar seaweed one day, Epsom salts the next, and potassium silicate, and so on? 

Aminos added to the nutrient mix? Every water?

Haha yeah I know I for some reason treated it like a ph-up as someone on here wrote that's what they did. Id of figured it out sooner if I could find a good picture or definition of potassium tox but surprisingly I couldn't find anything that good online. 

Thanks man! Ive ordered a 2nd maxibright CMH, they sound cheap at wholesale as the guy in the shop didn't wanna give me an exact price just asked what they sold for online and he seemed happy to give me 20 quid off the eBay ad of 220. 

Can't wait either man!


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## Jypsy Dog (Aug 3, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Wow so lawns and other plants must be way more sensitive than cannabis if you use in drops per gallon? It says spray solution so is it a foliar or a root innoculant? I use hydroguard in the nutrient feed, hope im not using it incorrectly. Got me doubting myself now! Haha!


I use it in my DWC tanks. 10 drops per 5 gal. It's the same Bacteria that's in the Hydroguard bottles. Only 1000x more concentrated.


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## JDMase (Aug 3, 2017)

Jypsy Dog said:


> I use it in my DWC tanks. 10 drops per 5 gal. It's the same Bacteria that's in the Hydroguard bottles. Only 1000x more concentrated.


Awesome man! Thanks for the tip I owe ya one. Unfortunately can't find a place to buy it


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## JDMase (Aug 3, 2017)

Tangie 
Maybe it's me but they look better today?  trichomes packing on.

Just got 5 bottles of seaweed feed from Wilkos thanks @coreywebster .. Also got some Epsom salts from home bargains, £2.50 for a kilo, not bad for the convenience of not waiting for the post man.


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## JDMase (Aug 3, 2017)

Pineapple express

One branch grew into the light, the tie holding it back came off I think, had worse! 


2nd CMH arrives tomorrow, im thinking I'll put it under the top bulk of the canopy for the lower buds to begin with, see if I cant get those popcorn buds huge.


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## coreywebster (Aug 3, 2017)

I feel like a bit of a dick now, I hope you got the right kelp, they sell two kinds last I saw. One is a full fertiliser with kelp and one is a kelp tonic with no added NPK. Hope you got the later. If not you can always return it for a swap.
I don't want to be the cause of any further problems for ya like overferting.. 

Regarding what your hydro store guy said about microbes, I think he's right, as In they are ment for a medium they can live in and create a biosphere. Not sure if theres any value in adding them to rockwool on its own. I wanted to use them initially to unlock all those nutrients that get bonded to the coco. I suppose there a possibility they would have some benefit in rockwool as most bottled nutrients are not fully available to the roots. I might have to have a read up on that and see what I can find out.

Your gona have some serious amounts of buds when you get the new CMH set up man..


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## JDMase (Aug 3, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> I feel like a bit of a dick now, I hope you got the right kelp, they sell two kinds last I saw. One is a full fertiliser with kelp and one is a kelp tonic with no added NPK. Hope you got the later. If not you can always return it for a swap.
> I don't want to be the cause of any further problems for ya like overferting..
> 
> Regarding what your hydro store guy said about microbes, I think he's right, as In they are ment for a medium they can live in and create a biosphere. Not sure if theres any value in adding them to rockwool on its own. I wanted to use them initially to unlock all those nutrients that get bonded to the coco. I suppose there a possibility they would have some benefit in rockwool as most bottled nutrients are not fully available to the roots. I might have to have a read up on that and see what I can find out.
> ...


Don't worry mate I got the tonic! Was the only one they had anyway, emptied the shelf as my local had barely any garden stuff left.. Still debating whether to stock up on the coco just incase I decide to switch.. They also have a nice heated propogator for 13 quid.

Let me know what you find, I could be throwing microbes in for no reason, but as far as I was aware they lived on the root mass. I know people use them in hydro setups so they must live in water.. And water is suspended in rockwool. That's just my thought process. I have no idea. All I can say is since using it ive had no lockouts or issues with suspected root rot. My temps have been real high too lately. 33c at some times. Might have to borrow my sisters portable AC now she don't use it

Yeah man super excited, I wish I had better canopy management though, my plants seem to of bunched up at the top and grown into the light, looks like a small version of an actual tree lol.


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## coreywebster (Aug 3, 2017)

Ah nice one! Had a bit of I sinking feeling when I read your post.. 
Wilkos is awesome ey! Worth getting some of those blocks for the price they are. I like it out of the bag by canna but couldn't resist the price. Plus my hydro shop is often closed or getting busted for shit they shouldn't be doing so I try and limit my visits, so its good to have some spare in case I need it. They sell mycorrhizal fungi in wilkos too..


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## JDMase (Aug 3, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> Ah nice one! Had a bit of I sinking feeling when I read your post..
> Wilkos is awesome ey! Worth getting some of those blocks for the price they are. I like it out of the bag by canna but couldn't resist the price. Plus my hydro shop is often closed or getting busted for shit they shouldn't be doing so I try and limit my visits, so its good to have some spare in case I need it.  They sell mycorrhizal fungi in wilkos too..


Wilkos is incredible haha. I just checked and they're all out of stock of that online. Shame they only do it seasonal, so much better than actual garden centres! Glad you put me onto them. 

Yeah my old local grow shop obviously did a grow and one week they just weren't there after I interupted a smoke/harvest party they were having lol. Ive got a local guy that's closer but he's barely ever there. Does me cheaper than online prices every time though. Real nice guy. Excited for the new light


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## gr865 (Aug 3, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Wilkos is incredible haha. I just checked and they're all out of stock of that online. Shame they only do it seasonal, so much better than actual garden centres! Glad you put me onto them.
> 
> Yeah my old local grow shop obviously did a grow and one week they just weren't there after I interupted a smoke/harvest party they were having lol. Ive got a local guy that's closer but he's barely ever there. Does me cheaper than online prices every time though. Real nice guy. Excited for the new light


Sounds like your hydro guy is like mine, give me great prices and a lot of free stuff. I get better than online prices on ferts and additives. On lights and lamps I just bought a 315W Phillips and he only charged me $60, cheapest I found online was $73 plus shipping. 
You mentioned the plant getting into the lamp, I found out most of my burns come from the buds touching the lamp when I take them in and out of the tent. One little bump and it's burnt spot.

GR


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## coreywebster (Aug 4, 2017)

@JDMase , didn't have to look very far.

*Microbial characteristics of rockwool*
Rockwool, being a ‘sterile’ product (only directly after production) does not contain any naturally occurring beneficial microbial populations when first planted out, however research has shown that microbial life does develop in rockwool substrates in the same way as other more `organic’ mediums such as peat and coco. This build up of beneficial microbial populations however is generally slower in rockwool as there are initially limited carbon sources for the microbes to feed on. as root systems develop and produce organic exudate, microbial life inside rockwool gradually build, however rockwool can be inoculated with microbial products to assist this process and help develop a healthy root zone. *The high level of oxygenation in a well managed rockwool system also help with the establishment and multiplication of beneficial microbe populations.

http://www.cannagardening.com/characteristics_of_rockwool*


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## JDMase (Aug 4, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> @JDMase , didn't have to look very far.
> 
> *Microbial characteristics of rockwool*
> Rockwool, being a ‘sterile’ product (only directly after production) does not contain any naturally occurring beneficial microbial populations when first planted out, however research has shown that microbial life does develop in rockwool substrates in the same way as other more `organic’ mediums such as peat and coco. This build up of beneficial microbial populations however is generally slower in rockwool as there are initially limited carbon sources for the microbes to feed on. as root systems develop and produce organic exudate, microbial life inside rockwool gradually build, however rockwool can be inoculated with microbial products to assist this process and help develop a healthy root zone. *The high level of oxygenation in a well managed rockwool system also help with the establishment and multiplication of beneficial microbe populations.
> ...


Awesome stuff! so I need to add carbon to my Rockwool then? Haha.


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## JDMase (Aug 4, 2017)

gr865 said:


> Sounds like your hydro guy is like mine, give me great prices and a lot of free stuff. I get better than online prices on ferts and additives. On lights and lamps I just bought a 315W Phillips and he only charged me $60, cheapest I found online was $73 plus shipping.
> You mentioned the plant getting into the lamp, I found out most of my burns come from the buds touching the lamp when I take them in and out of the tent. One little bump and it's burnt spot.
> 
> GR


I wish the £ was stronger, $60 is a steal for one of those! 

I was considering getting one of those lamp guards for mine, in the stretch they just seemed to head rigt for the lamp, mine are in the tent indefinitely - I never set mine up to come in and out as I used dutch leach trays and I tied the netting to the tent. I have a whole pineapple bud completely fried. Hey ho, lots of trichomes on it as a result. I will save that one for a night time smoke. (Lots of amber)


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## gr865 (Aug 4, 2017)

JDMase said:


> I wish the £ was stronger, $60 is a steal for one of those!
> 
> I was considering getting one of those lamp guards for mine, in the stretch they just seemed to head rigt for the lamp, mine are in the tent indefinitely - I never set mine up to come in and out as I used dutch leach trays and I tied the netting to the tent. I have a whole pineapple bud completely fried. Hey ho, lots of trichomes on it as a result. I will save that one for a night time smoke. (Lots of amber)


When I got my 1st 315W from him, it was a demo that he had in a tent there at the shop. He only used it two weeks because folks looking in the tent to see the light complained that it was to bright to tell anything and hurt their eyes.. So he pulled it, sold me the Nanolux 315 NA for $200 including the bulb. The second one I bought online because he could not get me one right away from Nanolux, the where back ordered. I ended up paying, I think, $315 for lamp and bulb. Big difference!
I had a screen that I made to cover the lamp, made if from 1/4" welded wire, It was in my 400W setup, I removed it when I realized it was blocking too much light, Since I started with it on there I never really noticed it, until a member point it out. I removed it from the lamp and man what a difference it made. Would not think so but it did.
My plants now are 8' away from the lamp on the lower parts of the plants and about 14" at the tops, I can adjust my screen to rotate back and forth. about 20 to 30 degrees in both directions.


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## JDMase (Aug 4, 2017)

raised PPM to 800ish today from 700-750, also added 0.5 potassium silicate (not 5ml this time lol) and a tablespoon (level) of Epsom salts. Interesting to see the PPM's go up so much from Epsom salts. Ended up being nearly 1000ppm.

My tap water is quite hard so I usually start at around the 300 mark.


Hope I haven't given them too much!

I also haven't been leaving my tap water to stand for the recommended 12-24 hours. Ive not seen any issues but I know the chlorine would be killing my microbes which im spending so much on. So another rookie mistake im rectifying. Water is standing now ready for tomorrow


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## gr865 (Aug 4, 2017)

I add 2 tsp/5 gallon Epson in RO and it raises my pppm from around 5 ppm to 55 ppm, I then add 2+ ml of Cal/Magic and it takes me to 120 +/- ppm. Then I add my base nutes. I am winding them down now with 12 +/- days to harvest. Have begun adding just RO to the rez, the RO ph is 5.98 +/-. adding two gallons a night. Just started and my rez ppm is 670/1.3 EC, and the pH is 5.74.
I hope I am not starting to early but looking at he trichs they are starting to cloud, not much but they are still packing on weight.


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## JDMase (Aug 5, 2017)

gr865 said:


> I add 2 tsp/5 gallon Epson in RO and it raises my pppm from around 5 ppm to 55 ppm, I then add 2+ ml of Cal/Magic and it takes me to 120 +/- ppm. Then I add my base nutes. I am winding them down now with 12 +/- days to harvest. Have begun adding just RO to the rez, the RO ph is 5.98 +/-. adding two gallons a night. Just started and my rez ppm is 670/1.3 EC, and the pH is 5.74.
> I hope I am not starting to early but looking at he trichs they are starting to cloud, not much but they are still packing on weight.


Well I must've gone way over then, a teaspoon per 5 gallons? I did a tablespoon for 6.5 litres. I just went off the first forum post I saw. I think im gonna give them a break from additives - temps are as high as 35c in the tent at the moment. Going to have to lower the nutrients again to compensate.

How come your pH is so low? I usually start at 5.8 and finish in 6.3 steadily rising through the grow, it's aomething @LandAndHeir told me about when I first joined the forum.


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## JDMase (Aug 5, 2017)

Skywalker kush, grapefruit krush and sage n sour all popped within 1 day, I checked on day 2 and its day 3 now and I desperately need to plant them so I got up early to do so. Completely forgot about it yesterday. 

Sapphire OG and afghan Kush Ryder should be ready to go soon too


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## JDMase (Aug 5, 2017)

This is sage n sour, all of them pretty much looked like this. Ive not had good success rates with seedlings ive left this long. Rockwool cubes pH of 5.7 - shaken excess off before poking a cocktail stick through so I can fit the majority of the root down. Packed with some root hormone powder and xtreme gardening mykos. Then I plugged the tops with a piece of rockwool at the top.


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## JDMase (Aug 5, 2017)

Now ive placed them on a plate on my window sill, hopefully they perk up today. This is my least favourite stage of growth.
From back to front - Skywalker kush > sage n sour > grapefruit krush.


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## JDMase (Aug 5, 2017)

If they don't perk up, how long should I give them until I change something?


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## JDMase (Aug 5, 2017)

I put a dome over them as they started to droop almost instantly, it's probably due to the amount of root manipulation I needed to get them in the cubes. Only downside of rockwool vs a soil like medium like coco or soil.


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## JDMase (Aug 5, 2017)

Maybe im micromanaging but as well as a dome ive now put a hot water bottle under the plate they're on. I didn't use boiling water just warm water from the tap. Sort of a make shift heat mat.


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## coreywebster (Aug 5, 2017)

JDMase said:


> If they don't perk up, how long should I give them until I change something?


I pot my seeds way before they get to that point, like 1cm of root poking out and the shell still no where near close to coming away. Obviously I'm in coco but I poke a tiny hole and let the tap sit in and the seed shell sit just below the top.
You might want to try going in to your cubes earlier. Its gona be a shock to them at the point they are at.
Hopefully they perk up. If they don't perk up by tomorrow you could extend your rockwool. Cut some cubes from one side to the centre and lift the seedling and slide it across so its holding them up. If catch my drift.


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## JDMase (Aug 5, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> I pot my seeds way before they get to that point, like 1cm of root poking out and the shell still no where near close to coming away. Obviously I'm in coco but I poke a tiny hole and let the tap sit in and the seed shell sit just below the top.
> You might want to try going in to your cubes earlier. Its gona be a shock to them at the point they are at.
> Hopefully they perk up. If they don't perk up by tomorrow you could extend your rockwool. Cut some cubes from one side to the centre and lift the seedling and slide it across so its holding them up. If catch my drift.


Yeah I get you, I never normally leave them this long on purpose I just didn't expect after 2 days for them to be that long! Shouldnt complain. I was just too high to cope with it last night haha. 

If they aren't perked up by tonight I'll put them in the 3" cubes ive got and put them under a 125w cfl about a metre away.. Ive got it on with the Pineapple Express vegging in there so it won't be direct light.


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## coreywebster (Aug 5, 2017)

JDMase said:


> I just didn't expect after 2 days for them to be that long! Shouldnt complain.
> .


2 days! That's pretty damn good growth. Lets hope that vigour continues through the whole grow, they will be monsters.


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## JDMase (Aug 5, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> 2 days! That's pretty damn good growth. Lets hope that vigour continues through the whole grow, they will be monsters.


If they survive! Fingers crossed!


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## gr865 (Aug 5, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Well I must've gone way over then, a teaspoon per 5 gallons? I did a tablespoon for 6.5 litres. I just went off the first forum post I saw. I think im gonna give them a break from additives - temps are as high as 35c in the tent at the moment. Going to have to lower the nutrients again to compensate.
> 
> How come your pH is so low? I usually start at 5.8 and finish in 6.3 steadily rising through the grow, it's aomething @LandAndHeir told me about when I first joined the forum.


That's 2 tsp epsom/5 gallon.
I would suggest you let the plants dictate when and what you are giving them. You really need nothing but pH'ed water to start them, then let the plants grow for a bit before you start adding crap. Remember less is more.

I always start my pH in the mid 7's, this is after recirculation, then I let the pH float upward during the period before I add more nute to the mix. It will float upwards and I don't adjust the pH until it gets in near the 6.0 point. My pH when I begin the process , adding completely fresh water and nutes is around 5.6 and I adjust it upward to around 5.75 run the transfer pump for a few hours and it will reach the 5.8 to 5.85. Then it sits in the rez until cycle times and it will be between 5.8 and 5.9 through the cycles.
Oh my RO water is 6.0.


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## ttystikk (Aug 5, 2017)

JDMase said:


> If they survive! Fingers crossed!


Why are they in the dark?

They're stretching because they aren't getting any light!

How can I tell? They aren't GREEN!


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## ttystikk (Aug 5, 2017)

gr865 said:


> That's 2 tsp epsom/5 gallon.
> I would suggest you let the plants dictate when and what you are giving them. You really need nothing but pH'ed water to start them, then let the plants grow for a bit before you start adding crap. Remember less is more.
> 
> I always start my pH in the mid 7's, this is after recirculation, then I let the pH float upward during the period before I add more nute to the mix. It will float upwards and I don't adjust the pH until it gets in near the 6.0 point. My pH when I begin the process , adding completely fresh water and nutes is around 5.6 and I adjust it upward to around 5.75 run the transfer pump for a few hours and it will reach the 5.8 to 5.85. Then it sits in the rez until cycle times and it will be between 5.8 and 5.9 through the cycles.
> Oh my RO water is 6.0.


I'd strongly recommend you start weighing out your dry nutrients, as using teaspoons and the like will always be an imprecise approximation.

For instance, I'm pretty happy with right about one gram of epsom salt (magnesium sulfate heptahydrate) per gallon of ready to use nutrient solution. I've bumped that up before and gotten all kinds of nasty lockouts.


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## JDMase (Aug 5, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Why are they in the dark?
> 
> They're stretching because they aren't getting any light!
> 
> How can I tell? They aren't GREEN!


Hey ttystikk! You are correct! I probably rambled on far too much in my previous posts. I basically realised late last night that they'd popped way sooner than I had expected, I don't like to play with my plants when ive smoked so I set my alarm early to get up and do it early. 

Just so you guys know they have done well with a really sunny afternoon, I kept them in a shady spot and they've perked up. What a relief


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## JDMase (Aug 5, 2017)

I worry too much. They seem fine right now


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## JDMase (Aug 5, 2017)

gr865 said:


> That's 2 tsp epsom/5 gallon.
> I would suggest you let the plants dictate when and what you are giving them. You really need nothing but pH'ed water to start them, then let the plants grow for a bit before you start adding crap. Remember less is more.
> 
> I always start my pH in the mid 7's, this is after recirculation, then I let the pH float upward during the period before I add more nute to the mix. It will float upwards and I don't adjust the pH until it gets in near the 6.0 point. My pH when I begin the process , adding completely fresh water and nutes is around 5.6 and I adjust it upward to around 5.75 run the transfer pump for a few hours and it will reach the 5.8 to 5.85. Then it sits in the rez until cycle times and it will be between 5.8 and 5.9 through the cycles.
> Oh my RO water is 6.0.


I think I'll give them it infrequently, I had a lot of yellowing and dying leaves (and 3 hands full) but I don't think that's deficiency related. 

I did use RO water but ive not had any problems that I can identify as being due to my water. Im only now letting my water sit because I know there is some chlorine in there. Im really not sure what the benefit of RO is? I know obviously that it's pure, and that my tap water is hard, but I don't know if that's so bad?


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## ttystikk (Aug 5, 2017)

JDMase said:


> View attachment 3990491
> 
> I worry too much. They seem fine right now


As soon as your plants have good roots, be they seedlings or cuttings, give them lots of light.


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## JDMase (Aug 5, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> As soon as your plants have good roots, be they seedlings or cuttings, give them lots of light.


Do you mean the long tap root like mine had, or do you mean once they start popping out the edges of the cube? My usual veg tent is a 125W CFL, my flower tent is a 315w CMH (soon to be two in there, excited )


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## ttystikk (Aug 5, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Do you mean the long tap root like mine had, or do you mean once they start popping out the edges of the cube? My usual veg tent is a 125W CFL, my flower tent is a 315w CMH (soon to be two in there, excited )


A taproot qualifies.


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## gr865 (Aug 5, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'd strongly recommend you start weighing out your dry nutrients, as using teaspoons and the like will always be an imprecise approximation.
> 
> For instance, I'm pretty happy with right about one gram of epsom salt (magnesium sulfate heptahydrate) per gallon of ready to use nutrient solution. I've bumped that up before and gotten all kinds of nasty lockouts.



Yes you are right, i do use grams not tsp, my bad!


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## JDMase (Aug 5, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> A taproot qualifies.


I put them under the cfl, been a few hours now (without dome) and the sage n sour is drooping. Other two seem fine. Dome back on and im going to check on them in the morning - placed a sheet of paper on top of the dome to diffuse some of the light just incase its too bright. Don't want to shock them i guess. Not sure how necessary that is.


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## JDMase (Aug 7, 2017)

Sage n sour still falling over periodically. Any ideas? I did take the humidity dome off and put it under my 125w CFL This morning (around 2 ft away) then it started happening. 

Gonna place it back by the window with the hot water bottle underneath, and dome ontop again. Looks like it's trying to perk up, hopefully the cloudy skies are enough for it today.


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## JDMase (Aug 7, 2017)

Sapphire OG popped. What on earth do I do with it?!!! It looks like it has cotyledons on each end and a massively thick taproot

False alarm. I thought it was a Siamese but it seems that the cotyledons were split at "birth". One is on the actual top, the other loosely attached


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## JDMase (Aug 7, 2017)

See what I mean? Super thick though, hoping for the best for this one


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## JDMase (Aug 8, 2017)

Well after a lot of visits to my hydro shop guy and being charged more than I expected, messed around Abit my second bulb is finally in. 

It looks blueish because it had just turned on. They should both be the full spectrum bulb (I hope). Bring on the bulk!


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## JDMase (Aug 8, 2017)

Tangie up skirt shot


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## ttystikk (Aug 8, 2017)

JDMase said:


> View attachment 3991933
> 
> Tangie up skirt shot


Magnetic ballasts?


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## JDMase (Aug 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Magnetic ballasts?


Maxibright CMH ballasts. Yeah, the lines are quite pronounced arent they


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## coreywebster (Aug 8, 2017)

Does that affect the performance @ttystikk , I thought they were square wave ballasts.


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## JDMase (Aug 8, 2017)

http://www.maxigrow.com/horticultural-hydroponic-supplies-wholesale-products/hid-lighting/hid-power-packs/digital-power-packs/daylight-315/


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## ttystikk (Aug 8, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Maxibright CMH ballasts. Yeah, the lines are quite pronounced arent they





coreywebster said:


> Does that affect the performance @ttystikk , I thought they were square wave ballasts.





JDMase said:


> http://www.maxigrow.com/horticultural-hydroponic-supplies-wholesale-products/hid-lighting/hid-power-packs/digital-power-packs/daylight-315/


Not all low frequency ballasts are square wave units. My Philips ballasts ran 315W CMH lamps with no bars in the pictures. 

I am suspicious, because square wave ballasts are more expensive. If they were going to cut costs, this is where they'd do it.


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## gr865 (Aug 8, 2017)

My 315's don't put out that light wave. Both of mine are 3100K


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## ttystikk (Aug 8, 2017)

gr865 said:


> My 315's don't put out that light wave. Both of mine are 3100K
> View attachment 3992054


Yep. Definitely square wave.


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## JDMase (Aug 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Yep. Definitely square wave.


So what does this mean? Less efficiency?


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## coreywebster (Aug 9, 2017)

I heard the bulbs need to be fired up right the first time they are used or the whole colour spectrum is not what it should be.
Mines the same as JDs, comes with the proper Philips bulb, so I wonder if I upgraded the ballast to a proper square wave if the bulb has already been damaged or if it would look any different. To be honest its my veg light and does a great job but if it could do better I would be willing to upgrade. Do you guys think it would be worth the extra? Am I losing efficiency or altered spectrum by using the ballast I have?


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## JDMase (Aug 9, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> I heard the bulbs need to be fired up right the first time they are used or the whole colour spectrum is not what it should be.
> Mines the same as JDs, comes with the proper Philips bulb, so I wonder if I upgraded the ballast to a proper square wave if the bulb has already been damaged or if it would look any different. To be honest its my veg light and does a great job but if it could do better I would be willing to upgrade. Do you guys think it would be worth the extra? Am I losing efficiency or altered spectrum by using the ballast I have?


The box says digital ballast, soft start but nothing about waveform but they are made for CMH so yeah I am also confused. 

My temps hit 35c all night last night. Glad the summer is making way for winter. Hopefully by next year I'll be able to get an AC.


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## coreywebster (Aug 9, 2017)

JDMase said:


> My temps hit 35c all night last night. Glad the summer is making way for winter. Hopefully by next year I'll be able to get an AC.


Ouch. bet you were a bit deflated. I hate setting new thing up to find there's an issue. Also with a vert set up theres no light line to put the thermometer above ey. Maybe time for a bigger extractor? What yours current one ?


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## coreywebster (Aug 9, 2017)

@JDMase looking at your set up I don't see why that fan wouldn't do the job, try hanging a piece of a4 paper or card in front of thermometer. Might not be as bad as it seems.


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## JDMase (Aug 9, 2017)

coreywebster said:


> @JDMase looking at your set up I don't see why that fan wouldn't do the job, try hanging a piece of a4 paper or card in front of thermometer. Might not be as bad as it seems.


So ive got the rhino thermostatic 5" fan, it has a probe which ive tucked well out of direct light so my actual thermostat is always a few degrees higher due to it being in the way of the light. But even when turning the fan up to 30c (Max) it was still on 100%, so I can only assume it's above 30 but not higher than 35. Not so bad.

Usually when my temps are 30c on the digital thermometer my fan will reduce power when set to around 27-28c. Im not sure how many degrees an extra 315w would add, but a a precaution ive turned up my floor fan to the higher setting.

The new bulb holder I ended up getting is a big old thing. Meant to have a parabolic reflector attached to it. So it could be that it's blocking the air flow from the floor up to the extraction.

It's all fun and games.


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## JDMase (Aug 9, 2017)

Hopefully my aeroponic cloner shows up today! Looking forward to seeing if I can clone and reverse a few cuttings from tangie. My air layer clone died and ive had nothing but compliments about her. Hopefully it works if not ive got another cool toy to play with


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## ttystikk (Aug 9, 2017)

JDMase said:


> So what does this mean? Less efficiency?


Square wave ballasts are the whole reason why 315W CMH lamps are as efficient as they are. Low frequency by itself isn't good enough. The difference is as much as 30%.


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## JDMase (Aug 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Square wave ballasts are the whole reason why 315W CMH lamps are as efficient as they are. Low frequency by itself isn't good enough. The difference is as much as 30%.


Ive sent an email to maxi grow - the people that make the ballasts, so they can clarify for us. These ballasts are the only CMH ive seen in the majority of grow shops here so we will see. Ive not found anything online talking about it.


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## ttystikk (Aug 9, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Ive sent an email to maxi grow - the people that make the ballasts, so they can clarify for us. These ballasts are the only CMH ive seen in the majority of grow shops here so we will see. Ive not found anything online talking about it.


Philips makes a true square wave ballast for the 315W lamp.


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## JDMase (Aug 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Philips makes a true square wave ballast for the 315W lamp.


Do they? I wasn't aware of that, at least I hvent seen them locally. 

Here's the response I got from maxigrow:


"The Maxibright Daylight 315W Ballast (blue anodised case) is a square wave digital ballast, designed to optimally run the 315W CMH lamps.


I lines that you see on the camera could not prove if it is a magnetic or digital ballast. It would be technically very difficult to make a magnetic ballast that runs the lamp at the correct frequency and square wave.


Thanks

Bill."


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## JDMase (Aug 9, 2017)

Taken from my pineapple clone. See the White dots? The odd patches on the leaves? What do we have here then?


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## ttystikk (Aug 9, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Do they? I wasn't aware of that, at least I hvent seen them locally.
> 
> Here's the response I got from maxigrow:
> 
> ...


The fuckers just lied to you. The lines on the digital photo are showing it ISN'T a square wave ballast, not that it's magnetic!


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## ttystikk (Aug 9, 2017)

JDMase said:


> View attachment 3992343
> 
> Taken from my pineapple clone. See the White dots? The odd patches on the leaves? What do we have here then?


Could be incidental damage but the pic is too blurry to tell for sure.


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## JDMase (Aug 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> The fuckers just lied to you. The lines on the digital photo are showing it ISN'T a square wave ballast, not that it's magnetic!


Im not sure what to even reply to them, I have no knowledge on the subject myself.


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## ttystikk (Aug 9, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Im not sure what to even reply to them, I have no knowledge on the subject myself.


Ask them why there are interference patterns in your digital camera pics with their ballast but not with other ballasts.


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## JDMase (Aug 10, 2017)

Not too sure why sapphire OG has folded in half there.. I opened the humidity dome vents slightly today, maybe that? I also put the 8w Heater on for a few hours, possibly that too? Either way ive turned off the heater (which didn't even feel that warm anyway) and ive taken the dome off, what was I thinking? 
Definite damping off. 

Should I water with H2o2? Or just leave it to dry out ?


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## JDMase (Aug 10, 2017)

Dome off. 1 hour later they're all falling over. Dome back on then. See how they are in another hour.


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## gr865 (Aug 10, 2017)

You may have too much light and too far away from the plants, causing them to stretch. Do you ever put a fan on them to get the plants to move and help strengthen the stems? Those are thing I am seeing, I hope it helps.

GR


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## JDMase (Aug 10, 2017)

gr865 said:


> You may have too much light and too far away from the plants, causing them to stretch. Do you ever put a fan on them to get the plants to move and help strengthen the stems? Those are thing I am seeing, I hope it helps.
> 
> GR


So during the day they are just in the sunlight. And when the sun goes down i place them around 1 ft away from a 125w bulb (out side of the tent though) 

I don't put a fan on them, I lift the dome a few times a day and give the stems a little flick. 

The long stems are a side effect of me not getting them out the towel quick enough


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## JDMase (Aug 14, 2017)

So I have burnt main colas annoyingly. 

Pineapple I did a while back (it grew into the bulb) and tangie a few days ago. 

 
Pineapple..

 

Tangie


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## JDMase (Aug 14, 2017)

Tangie


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## JDMase (Aug 14, 2017)

Pineapple


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## ANC (Aug 14, 2017)

JDMase said:


> View attachment 3992898
> 
> Not too sure why sapphire OG has folded in half there.. I opened the humidity dome vents slightly today, maybe that? I also put the 8w Heater on for a few hours, possibly that too? Either way ive turned off the heater (which didn't even feel that warm anyway) and ive taken the dome off, what was I thinking?
> Definite damping off.
> ...


What the actual fuck? Next time hang a 23W spiral cool white CFL an inch or so above your seedlings. They won't stretch like that.


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## JDMase (Aug 14, 2017)

ANC said:


> What the actual fuck? Next time hang a 23W spiral cool white CFL an inch or so above your seedlings. They won't stretch like that.


I left them in the paper towels too long, they germinated so much faster than any other strains ive had I don't mind the long stem, once they get some roots they'll perk up.


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## gr865 (Aug 14, 2017)

I hope your right, never seen them be very successful starting like that,,
Then again, don't know your plan for this next grow, your could be right on.


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## gr865 (Aug 14, 2017)

JDMase said:


> So I have burnt main colas annoyingly.
> 
> Pineapple I did a while back (it grew into the bulb) and tangie a few days ago.
> 
> ...


This one didn't grow into the lamp, I bump the lamp while taking the plant out of the tent.


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## JDMase (Aug 14, 2017)

gr865 said:


> I hope your right, never seen them be very successful starting like that,,
> Then again, don't know your plan for this next grow, your could be right on.


They've perked up already since being in their 3" cubes. I always seem to germinate lanky plants. When I first started I only had a 600w HPS so Id transfer them from paper towel to the bottom edge of the tent and they'd stretch.. Ive forgotten about plenty of seeds when waiting to germ in the past too. I only just remembered today that I had an afghan kush Ryder (autoflowers) that took a while longer to pop, I'll take a picture of it tomorrow for you (roots were around 4 inches long) im sure it'll be fine.. Fingers crossed.


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## JDMase (Aug 14, 2017)

gr865 said:


> This one didn't grow into the lamp, I bump the lamp while taking the plant out of the tent.
> 
> View attachment 3994902


Oh damn it looks awful Huh?! How do you deal with those buds? Do they dry quicker or taste differently or anything?


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## gr865 (Aug 14, 2017)

Don't know just harvested this weekend, will let you know.


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## JDMase (Aug 15, 2017)

So far the most trichomes ive ever grown. I believe someone mentioned that underside trichomes are a sign of happy plants, so mine must be over the moon.

Both pictures are Pineapple Express, on the bottom larfy buds. PE is certainly the frostier of the two


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## JDMase (Aug 16, 2017)

Just some pictures to share with you all


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## ttystikk (Aug 16, 2017)

Looks nice!

Try to keep the buds away from the damn lights already, geez!


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## JDMase (Aug 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Looks nice!
> 
> Try to keep the buds away from the damn lights already, geez!


I call them my two-face buds in memory of Harvey dent


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## JDMase (Aug 17, 2017)

I feel like my pineapple buds aren't exploding in growth yet, or maybe they won't? The tangies just seem to shoot out new pistills every day. We're around the week 5 mark now so im hoping for an 8-9 week finish on these strains. They are actually advertised as 10 week strains but in rockwool, with the CMH im confident we can finish by the first of September. Would be lovely.


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## ANC (Aug 20, 2017)

You can try feeding a low dose of P if your flowering stalls.


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## JDMase (Aug 20, 2017)

ANC said:


> You can try feeding a low dose of P if your flowering stalls.


Thanks, I gave them some potassium silicate, the Tangie seemed a tad burnt by it but the pineapple seemed to love it, had to feed low PPM's lately because of high temps (38c!) so that might be why they got burnt. Ive seen a few white hairs pop out but they're the sort of last ditch effort type. The buds seem to have all the Orange hairs receding and im seeing mainly clear and maybe a few cloudy trichomes. Id be shocked but it looks like this might be a 6 week pheno. Got two clones of it too so im excited for that prospect.


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## ANC (Aug 20, 2017)

Start flushing it rather then. I was not aware it was so far along. Sometimes they stall just after starting. The worst the plant looks by harvest time the better. You don't want the leaves green like now.


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## JDMase (Aug 20, 2017)

ANC said:


> Start flushing it rather then. I was not aware it was so far along. Sometimes they stall just after starting. The worst the plant looks by harvest time the better. You don't want the leaves green like now.


I'll take a picture of the buds and as a whole and upload at lights on


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## JDMase (Aug 20, 2017)

Pineapple Express 5 weeks & 5 days (40 days)


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## JDMase (Aug 21, 2017)

Tangie bottom branches I chopped when my air layered one died. Been about 2 weeks roughly. No real prep just chopped them from the plant straight into filtered water and then put them both in the machine without rooting gel. About a week ago I dropped some root gel on them when it looked like I might lose them. The plan is to get these to root and reverse and use the resulting branches as clones to fill 50% of this 20 site cloner, the tangie is something Id always like to have, it smells great grows well and hopefully medicates me as well as I expect it to. It's rare that you find good sativas round here.


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## JDMase (Aug 31, 2017)

Chopped the Pineapple Express.

It looks like it'll be done this week, but I ran out and I decided to chop the main top 7 branches first, and do a staggered harvest to maximize yield whilst I havent got anything to go in its place.

Was aiming to chop 14 grams, ended up with over 30g dried so far. Pretty happy, looks like I might get over 4oz/113g-ish.

Remember the main cola I burnt?

Here it is next to a nice looking bud I chopped. 3.5 grams sitting there, zoom in and check out the trichomes. (Not properly trimmed - don't bother when it's just for me) 

Super happy with the frost. And the smoke

Tangie is looking to be done in 2-3 weeks, much slower but the plant itself must be 50% bigger than PE.

Excited!


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## JDMase (Sep 14, 2017)

Tangie seemed to dislike the tapering down of the nutrients and is committing suicide. Will affect yield as I won't be able to harvest partially, it'll all be chopped soon. 

 

This is what's left of pineapple. Staggered harvest worked nicely with it. Had around 80-90grams so far with probably the same amount again coming with this lot. Not to mention I only added 315w number 2 half way through flower. 

Learned a lot from this first vert grow. Definitely going to train my next ones differently in veg, and will take some lower and rear branches off to try and increase the bud volume elsewhere and save trimming larf. Still, I don't want to compromise too much yield so I'll keep it light.


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## ttystikk (Sep 14, 2017)

JDMase said:


> View attachment 4010416
> 
> Tangie seemed to dislike the tapering down of the nutrients and is committing suicide. Will affect yield as I won't be able to harvest partially, it'll all be chopped soon.
> 
> ...


I'm not a fan of starving the plants of nutrients late in the cycle. Dialing back from peak bloom strength is one thing, but 'flushing' is a technique that needs to stay in the bathroom.


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## JDMase (Sep 14, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm not a fan of starving the plants of nutrients late in the cycle. Dialing back from peak bloom strength is one thing, but 'flushing' is a technique that needs to stay in the bathroom.


I never flush, although the nutes I use say to flush every 1-3 days for salt build up. I just lower from 8-900ppm to around 5-700 once I get to week 8ish.. pineapple was fine tangie wasnt. Could be another issue, a lockout or something.


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## Go go n chill (Dec 24, 2017)

JDMase said:


> View attachment 3925304
> 
> Hey guys, some of you might have seen my grow journal, going to continue it here where I can focus on a trellis grow, and get some tips and advice.
> 
> ...





JDMase said:


> View attachment 3925304
> 
> Hey guys, some of you might have seen my grow journal, going to continue it here where I can focus on a trellis grow, and get some tips and advice.
> 
> ...





JDMase said:


> View attachment 3925304
> 
> Hey guys, some of you might have seen my grow journal, going to continue it here where I can focus on a trellis grow, and get some tips and advice.
> 
> ...


What type of pot or containers are those? I saw the same thing from a buddy in Nevada, curious


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Dec 24, 2017)

those are big blocks of grodan rockwool


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## OneHitDone (Jan 2, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> I'm not a fan of starving the plants of nutrients late in the cycle. Dialing back from peak bloom strength is one thing, but 'flushing' is a technique that needs to stay in the bathroom.


Your product wouldn't make it in cali


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