# Plant Moisture Stress - Symptoms and Solutions



## Uncle Ben (Jan 12, 2009)

*PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)

Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> &#8220;Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!&#8221;, or, &#8220;My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?&#8221; Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the &#8220;solution&#8221; the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I&#8217;ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.

1. Over-fertilizing - the most common cause of leaf cupping aka leaf margin rolling, leaf margin burn, and leaf tip curl/burn is the overzealous use of too much plant food in relationship to factors such as plant size, vigor and rate of growth. The first unit of a plant to show moisture stress is the leaf at its margins and/or tips, reflected by margin rolling (cupping) or burning. Sometimes copper colored necrotic spots show in the leaf also. A hard, crispy feel to the leaf frequently occurs as well, as opposed to a soft and cool feel of a happy leaf. When you have a high concentration of salts in solution (or in the root medium) compared to lower salinity levels found in the plant&#8217;s tissue, water is actually drawn out of the plant across the root gradient in order to fix the ppm imbalance. IOW, this is a natural, osmotic response that serves to equalize salinity levels on both sides of the root&#8217;s epidermal gradient. Back off on the amount and/or frequency of plant food. Too much plant food can also burn the roots, especially the sensitive root tips and hairs, which then creates another set of problems such as nutrient deficiencies. A note for the bio folks - as soil dries, the concentration of the remaining salts rises further exacerbating the problem. Leach (flush) your pots once in a while to get rid of excess salts.

2. High Heat - the plant is losing water via it&#8217;s leaves faster than what can be replaced by the root system. The leaf responds by leaf margin cupping or rolling (up or down) in order to conserve moisture. A good example is reflected by the appearance of broad-bladed turf grass on a hot summer day, high noon, with low soil moisture levels - the leaf blade will roll in and the grass will take on a dull, greyish-green appearance. Upon sunrise when moisture levels have returned to normal, the leaf blade will be flat. Lower the heat and concentrate on developing a large, robust root system by practicing sound plant culture. An efficient and effective root system will go a long way to prevent heat induced leaf dessication and leaf margin curling by supplying sufficient moisture for good plant health. One short episode of high heat is enough to permanently destroy leaf tissue and cause a general decline in the leaves affected, which often occurs to leaves found at the top of the plant located near HID lamps. The damaged leaf (usually) does not recover, no matter what you do. Bummer in the summer. One can only look to new growth for indications that the problem has been corrected.

3. High Light - yes, it&#8217;s true, you can give our faves too much light. Cannabis does not receive full sun from sunrise to sunset in its natural state. It is shaded or given reduced light levels because of adjacent plant material, cloudy conditions, rain, debris and dust collection on the leaf surface, twilight periods of early morning and late afternoon, and light intensity changes caused by a change in the seasons. Too much light mainly serves to bleach out and destroy chlorophyll as opposed to causing leaf cupping, but it often goes hand-in-hand with high heat for indoor growers. Again, back off on the light and concentrate on developing/maintaining an efficient and robust root system. Keep in mind that all but equatorial material receive less light during flowering than during the vegetative stage. 

4. Overwatering - this practice only serves to weaken the root system by depriving the roots of proper gas exchange. IOW, the roots are not getting enough oxygen which creates an anerobic condition causing root decline and root rot with the end result showing up as leaf stress, stunted growth, and in severe cases, death. <gasp!> Alot of times folks think the plant is not getting enough plant food (which it can't under such adverse conditions), they add more nutes for a "curative", and just add insult to injury.

5. Underwatering - not only is the plant now stressed due to a low supply of adequate moisture, but carbohydrate production has been greatly compromised (screwed up). Step up the watering frequency, and if need be, organic growers may need to soak the pot from the bottom up until moisture levels reach an even consistency throughout the medium especially with mixes that are heavy in peat. If severe, a little surfactant (liquid Ivory dish soap) added to the drench will help return the organics back to a normal moisture retentive state. If the pot feels light to the lift - it&#8217;s time to water. Don&#8217;t wait until the soil pulls away from the sides of the pot or leaves droop before you water.

Happy gardening,
Uncle Ben


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## GoldenGraham84 (Jan 12, 2009)

you should mention something about leaf curling/cupping due to the plant being rootbound.


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 12, 2009)

Thanks Dirtfree. 



GoldenGraham84 said:


> you should mention something about leaf curling/cupping due to the plant being rootbound.


Potbound plants usually exhibit signs of slowing growth, stunting, as opposed to moisture stress which is expressed via leaf cupping. 

I bet I could take 50% of the groans of the last couple of pages here and attribute some or most of the problems to moisture stress or improper watering issues.

Uncle Ben


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## OneHit (Jan 14, 2009)

What signs to plant exhibit if they are in a low humidity environment? My plants RH is 16-20% And I read thats way too low


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 14, 2009)

OneHit said:


> What signs to plant exhibit if they are in a low humidity environment? My plants RH is 16-20% And I read thats way too low


No two gardens are the same, forget what you read and learn to read your plants.

If you have a robust, effective root system, a RH of 20% is fine, all other factors considered. In fact, that kind of RH during latent flowering with indica doms is a blessing regarding possible bud rot or fungus issues.

Good luck,
UB


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## OneHit (Jan 14, 2009)

How do I tell if it has a robust effective rootsystem?


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## tryinghard (Jan 15, 2009)

great thread UNC,,, my pal Pete from CH9 was telling me the samething i was overfertin my plants,,every problem i was having u just described to a tee,,, you really know your shit,,, this will help a lot of people,,,peace


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## canadiancracker (Jan 15, 2009)

can you help check these out

thanks in advance,

i think it might be over watering or maybe too much light.

thanks in advance, great thread by the way...


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 15, 2009)

OneHit said:


> How do I tell if it has a robust effective rootsystem?


You'll have abundant foliage and the pot will need watering often. The condition and mass of the foliage pretty much indicates the same with the root system.

tryinghard, thanks bro. It's helped out alot of people over the years. It's pretty basic stuff but sometimes we lose sight of the forest for the trees. 

UB


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 15, 2009)

OneHit said:


> How do I tell if it has a robust effective rootsystem?


You'll have abundant foliage, a very healthy looking plant and the pot will need watering often. The condition and mass of the foliage pretty much indicates the same regarding the root system's condition.

tryinghard, thanks bro. It's helped out alot of people over the years. It's pretty basic stuff but sometimes we lose sight of the forest for the trees. 

UB


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 15, 2009)

canadiancracker said:


> can you help check these out
> 
> thanks in advance,
> 
> ...









I don't see any symptoms of too much light. Me? I keep my leaves alot greener than that VVV but your light medium green leaves aren't really a problem. Not now anyway. Problems start when folks hit them during flowering with N deficient (high P) foods.







Water when the pot feels light to the lift, but before it starts showing moisture stress (droopy leaves). 

What's the makeup of your mix, soil and hydroton on top? Why the hydroton and what kind of soil are you using? What's its structure like, open or tight?

UB


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## tryinghard (Jan 16, 2009)

hey UNC i gotta give credit where credits due,,,, and like u said its helped many people over the years i am sure, and 3 years from now it will still be helping thx 2 people like you,,, hell sometimes it feels like i completely left the forest let alone lose sight of it,,,peace


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 16, 2009)

tryinghard said:


> hey UNC i gotta give credit where credits due,,,, and like u said its helped many people over the years i am sure, and 3 years from now it will still be helping thx 2 people like you,,, hell sometimes it feels like i completely left the forest let alone lose sight of it,,,peace


Yeah, it's all about botany and using common sense. It's when you stray from the common sense part of growing this weed that things can (and will) go south on ya. 

Thanks for the kind words. I've got something up my sleeve regarding putting together 40 years of tweeks learned at the School of Hard Knocks. Stay tuned. 

Tio Bendejo


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## OneHit (Jan 16, 2009)

UB, What do you think is wrong with this plant? I had sprayed neem oil the day before, and after I woke up and the lights turn on, they were like this. I thought it would go away in a day, buit it didnt.


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## canadiancracker (Jan 16, 2009)

my soil is made up of 1/6 vercumilite, and 5/6 potting soil, kinda tight soil. i also mixed in the hydroton into the mix before filling my pots for extra air in the soil. the hydroton on top is to help keep some moisture in the soil. last crop i used the same pots and plants vegged for the same amount of time and the lights were baking the promix hp and drying it out too quick. 

my grow before the last one i used dr scultz pro potting soil with time release ferts and my plants turned out amazing so i tryed to make a simular soil for this grow except i mixxed it myself to save some money, which i dont think ill ever do again,, promix hp it is for me....

thanks


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 16, 2009)

OneHit said:


> UB, What do you think is wrong with this plant? I had sprayed neem oil the day before, and after I woke up and the lights turn on, they were like this. I thought it would go away in a day, buit it didnt.


It appears that the neem oil product burned them (drew moisture out of the leaf tissue), most likely the carrier was the culprit. Safer Soaps are notorious for doing that, reason why I won't use 'em. The damage has been done, and most likely those leaves will not recover. Might have to put it behind you and focus on the condition of the new growth only. You could always blast them with some distilled or rain water and see if that helps.

canadiancracker, using hydroton to open up a soil is like dropping a handful of marbles in a big bag of flour. Use vermiculite and perlite to open up your soils and save your money regarding the hydroton. Or if you're skittish about overwatering, use a 1" layer of the hydroton in the bottom of the pot.

I am a commercial grower (farmer of niche crops) and use a slow release fertilizer on everything, we're talkin' thousands of plant material. It's an excellent way to provide plants with what they really like, a slow release source of food on a continuous basis. If those encapsulated granules were green, then you have a Polyon, a Harrell plant food product which I buy in 50 lb. bags. I believe that is what Schultz uses. DO mix your own custom soil, just add some slow release foods like blood and bone meal and Osmocote or any other encapsulated slow release food.

Good luck,
UB


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## yobdub (Jan 19, 2009)

great advice im stressing over plants(1st GROW) some info seems to contradict other pros that are trying to help but from my experiance your info seems more logical.....maybe logic doesnt produce more bigger buds I have been over waterig/fertin and when i chill and be patient things look better Lord im an impatient bastard especially when im smokin schwag and waitin for my grow to finish  GOD BLESS *RIU* PEOPLE


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 20, 2009)

yobdub said:


> great advice im stressing over plants(1st GROW)


That's a natural newbie response, you're apprehensive and fear of the unknown will getcha by the cajones every time. Just keep it simple and grow your plants like you would tomatoes. Remember, pot is a weed and where folks screw it up is by overdoing things. 

Less is more.



> some info seems to contradict other pros that are trying to help but from my experiance your info seems more logical.....


My info is based on many years of experience and botany. I don't subscribe to most of the cannabis forum paradigms, snake oils and rocket fuels.....there's too much voodoo majic in this biz and it doesn't have to be that way. If folks would stop glamorizing and romanicizing weed and stop treating it with some wacked out air of mystique, they would have better results. Just grow the frickin' weed and be done with it. 



> maybe logic doesnt produce more bigger buds


Not to toot my horn, but I'm known for producing only big, chunky colas...when it comes to hybrids. Sativas are a different matter and tend to be airy, fluffy type buds but I do well with those indoors too such as old Mex, Zamal, O. Haze, etc. Here's a link which reveals not only typical nugs I grow but the speed and vigor you'll see in my gardens. Check out the health and color on one of my crosses, a male that I destroyed. That's the kind of plant health and color you should aim for. http://www.drugs-forum.com/growfaq/1321.htm



> I have been over waterig/fertin and when i chill and be patient things look better


Like I said, "less is more". Learn to read your plants, they will tell you when it's time to water, when they need more or LESS light, etc. It's a balancing act regarding all of the cultural variables and factors.

http://www.drugs-forum.com/growfaq/1321.htmGood luck,
UB


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## OneHit (Jan 20, 2009)

UB, I just checked out that link. Do you recommend using that spinout spray? Also, do you have any personal experience with feminized seeds? Im growing one, and there have been some light cycle moments when the timer wasnt working properly, as well as some potential light leaks coming from my mothering chamber, and I hear all these horror stories about feminized seeds turning hermie. WHen they DO go hermie, is it the entire plant? Or one branch? Ive also taken some clones from this mother. Do I need to toss them immediatly if I find that the mother has turned hermie?


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## Kriegs (Jan 21, 2009)

Thanks, UB, for this awesome post and the thread that follows. Less really is more... I'm in my first grow, but I've been gardening avidly for 15 years. When I started growing weed, I tossed out everything I knew for "the mystique and voodoo" you mention. Well, just for a couple weeks -- I quickly pulled my head out, shook off the fog and said "it's just a damn plant, man!", and my plants are kickin' ass now. They're starting to freak me out with how much space they're filling.

Just a couple little things to add: 

1) People either don't know or forget that plants are water pumps. So, the bigger/smaller the plant the more/less water you need. Therefore, the watering regime you had a week ago no longer works with a fast-growing plant like MJ. I've gone from 8-10 day watering intervals at seedling stage to barely keeping up at 4 weeks old with every-other-day waterings. They just suck it up. 

2) Newbies: Get a moisture meter. They're 5 lousy bucks at Lowe's, etc. Once you have it and know how to use it, don't argue with what it says. I find mine really helpful 'cause under a 18 hours of beaming HPS light and fanning, that top inch of soil is going to be dry within hours of watering while you may have a root-killing swamp developing down below (thus confounding the "place a finger an inch into the soil" measure). The meter probe lets you see what's going on throughout the pot top to bottom. I'm sure the meter becomes obsolete with experience, but for newbies, I think it's a great way to get solid on your watering approach.

Thanks again, UB!


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 21, 2009)

OneHit said:


> UB, I just checked out that link. Do you recommend using that spinout spray?


Works for me.



> Also, do you have any personal experience with feminized seeds? Im growing one, and there have been some light cycle moments when the timer wasnt working properly, as well as some potential light leaks coming from my mothering chamber, and I hear all these horror stories about feminized seeds turning hermie. WHen they DO go hermie, is it the entire plant? Or one branch? Ive also taken some clones from this mother. Do I need to toss them immediatly if I find that the mother has turned hermie?


I have no experience with feminized seeds. My thoughts are, if you're paying for a service or product and it doesn't deliver, then the seller owes you. Other than the inconvenience of having seeds to mess with, I don't turn down my nose at seeded pot. I think it is every bit as potent as the too often hyped "sensi". I have planted many a seed, not feminized, and had few hermie problems. Hermies seem to arise with Mex and other equatorial sativa strains. You just learn to live with it. 

Whether or not you toss hermie seeds is up to you. Me, I wouldn't keep them unless they have attributes (phenotype) too fine to lose like excellent potency, vigor, plant structure, etc.



Kriegs said:


> Thanks, UB, for this awesome post and the thread that follows.


And thanks for the thanks. 



> Less really is more... I'm in my first grow, but I've been gardening avidly for 15 years. When I started growing weed, I tossed out everything I knew for "the mystique and voodoo" you mention. Well, just for a couple weeks -- I quickly pulled my head out, shook off the fog and said "it's just a damn plant, man!", and my plants are kickin' ass now. They're starting to freak me out with how much space they're filling.


Yeppers, another satisfied customer who knows what he wants and is doing what needs to be done. 



> Just a couple little things to add:
> 
> 1) People either don't know or forget that plants are water pumps. So, the bigger/smaller the plant the more/less water you need.


Absolutely, same goes with plant food or light. You measure a plant's needs based on factors such as size, vigor, color, etc. A plant in the seedling and late flowering stage "needs less" when growth is the slowest. 



> Therefore, the watering regime you had a week ago no longer works with a fast-growing plant like MJ. I've gone from 8-10 day watering intervals at seedling stage to barely keeping up at 4 weeks old with every-other-day waterings. They just suck it up.


No shit. I've had to water plants in 3 gallon pots twice a day with at least 1/2 gallon each watering. It all depends on the amount of the foliage, overall bulk and of course temp, RH, etc. Plant culture is dynamic, it is ever changing from the beginning to the end. A master gardener learns to adjust to plant needs/requirements accordingly.



> 2) .....that top inch of soil is going to be dry within hours of watering while you may have a root-killing swamp developing down below (thus confounding the "place a finger an inch into the soil" measure).


Uhhhhhhhh, you know where that "pro" who recommended that drill can stick his finger.  Best bet is water when the pot feels light to the lift. After a few gardens, you don't even need to do that, you just know when the plants need water based on their looks.



> Thanks again, UB!


You're welcome! And to quote our good friend potroast, "thanks for playing along." 

UB


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## yobdub (Jan 21, 2009)

glad you are with us  U da MAN


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 21, 2009)

yobdub said:


> glad you are with us  U da MAN


Thanks man! Really happy to be here! The abundance of master gardeners and the good will of the general membership is refreshing. 

Still learning after all these years,
Uncle Ben


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 25, 2009)

*PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (content revised Jan. 12, 2009)

Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> &#8220;Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!&#8221;, or, &#8220;My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?&#8221; Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the &#8220;solution&#8221; the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I&#8217;ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.

1. Over-fertilizing - the most common cause of leaf cupping aka leaf margin rolling, leaf margin burn, leaf spotting and leaf tip curl/burn is the overzealous use of too much plant food in relationship to factors such as plant size, vigor and rate of growth. The first unit of a plant to show moisture stress is the leaf at its margins and/or tips, reflected by margin rolling (cupping) or burning. Sometimes copper colored necrotic spots show in the leaf also. A hard, crispy feel to the leaf frequently occurs as well, as opposed to a soft and cool feel of a happy leaf. When you have a high concentration of salts in solution (or in the root medium) compared to lower salinity levels found in the plant&#8217;s tissue, water is actually drawn out of the plant across the root gradient in order to fix the ppm imbalance. IOW, this is a natural, osmotic response that serves to equalize salinity levels on both sides of the root&#8217;s epidermal gradient. Back off on the amount and/or frequency of plant food. Too much plant food can also burn the roots, especially the sensitive root tips and hairs, which then creates another set of problems such as nutrient deficiencies. A note for the bio folks - as soil dries, the concentration of the remaining salts rises further exacerbating the problem. Leach (flush) your pots once in a while to get rid of excess salts.

2. High Heat - the plant is losing water via it&#8217;s leaves faster than what can be replaced by the root system. The leaf responds by leaf margin cupping or rolling (up or down) in order to conserve moisture. A good example is reflected by the appearance of broad-bladed turf grass on a hot summer day, high noon, with low soil moisture levels - the leaf blade will roll in and the grass will take on a dull, greyish-green appearance. Upon sunrise when moisture levels have returned to normal, the leaf blade will be flat. Lower the heat and concentrate on developing a large, robust root system by practicing sound plant culture. An efficient and effective root system will go a long way to prevent heat induced leaf dessication and leaf margin curling by supplying sufficient moisture for good plant health. One short episode of high heat is enough to permanently destroy leaf tissue and cause a general decline in the leaves affected, which often occurs to leaves found at the top of the plant located near HID lamps. The damaged leaf (usually) does not recover, no matter what you do. Bummer in the summer. One can only look to new growth for indications that the problem has been corrected.

3. High Light - yes, it&#8217;s true, you can give our faves too much light. Cannabis does not receive full sun from sunrise to sunset in its natural state. It is shaded or given reduced light levels because of adjacent plant material, cloudy conditions, rain, debris and dust collection on the leaf surface, twilight periods of early morning and late afternoon, and light intensity changes caused by a change in the seasons. Too much light mainly serves to bleach out and destroy chlorophyll as opposed to causing leaf cupping, but it often goes hand-in-hand with high heat for indoor growers. Again, back off on the light and concentrate on developing/maintaining an efficient and robust root system. Keep in mind that all but equatorial material receive less light during flowering than during the vegetative stage. 

4. Overwatering - this practice only serves to weaken the root system by depriving the roots of proper gas exchange. IOW, the roots are not getting enough oxygen which creates an anerobic condition causing root decline and root rot with the end result showing up as leaf stress, stunted growth, and in severe cases, death. <gasp!> Alot of times folks think the plant is not getting enough plant food (which it can't under such adverse conditions), they add more nutes for a "curative", and just add insult to injury.

5. Underwatering - not only is the plant now stressed due to a low supply of adequate moisture, but carbohydrate production has been greatly compromised (screwed up). Step up the watering frequency, and if need be, organic growers may need to soak the pot from the bottom up until moisture levels reach an even consistency throughout the medium especially with mixes that are heavy in peat. If severe, a little surfactant (liquid Ivory dish soap) added to the drench will help return the organics back to a normal moisture retentive state. If the pot feels light to the lift - it&#8217;s time to water. Don&#8217;t wait until the soil pulls away from the sides of the pot or leaves droop before you water.

Happy gardening,
Uncle Ben


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## Hayduke (Jan 25, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> I've got something up my sleeve regarding putting together 40 years of tweeks learned at the School of Hard Knocks. Stay tuned.
> 
> Tio Bendejo


Like all others have said, thank you! Looking forward to what is up your sleeve! I never though about roots "spinning out" being a problem, but makes some sense when compared to a root ball which has not "spun out".


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 25, 2009)

Hayduke said:


> Like all others have said, thank you! Looking forward to what is up your sleeve!


Well, the fate of the western world does not rest on me draft, just some thoughts I'm putting together. I've started it and as thoughts evolve I'll finally finish it and post the ditty. Thanks for the kind words.



> I never though about roots "spinning out" being a problem, but makes some sense when compared to a root ball which has not "spun out".


Yep. The whole drill is for roots to explore as much as soil as possible for maximum uptake of water and minerals. Root spinout is not good. There are ways to address the problem both chemically (copper hydroxide root tip pruning paints) or by mechanical means - scoring when upcanning, using air pruning type pots etc.

Here is one way to address root spinout using Griffin's Spin-out paint...a grow journal.
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html

cya~


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## Hayduke (Jan 25, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> There are ways to address the problem both chemically (copper hydroxide root tip pruning paints) or by mechanical means - scoring when upcanning, using air pruning type pots etc.
> 
> Here is one way to address root spinout using Griffin's Spin-out paint...a grow journal.
> https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html
> ...


I checked out your article on the Griffin's previously, interesting to say the least. I am a little sketched do to ignorance, and the similarity of this product to anti-bottom fouling marine paint. the guys who scrub boat bottoms are exposed to some nasty sh!t as well as the area under the boat slip. I am sure since you are using this product though, there is no health concern. I am interested in the mechanical means as my friend who worked in horticulture for years asked me about cutting the roots...I just figured it was not good, and when I "upcan" my roots look like they have been chasing something around the pot...I thought well there is lots of roots and that is good. Using the net pots is also interesting. My buddy mentioned his local garden center selling cuttings in rapid rooters that they just let the outside roots dry out or cut them off...this seemed like a bad thing to me but now has me interested...Thanks for sharing your experience here on RIU. This is the kind of stuff that keeps this exciting. 

¡Mucho Garcia Tio!


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 25, 2009)

Hayduke said:


> I am sure since you are using this product though, there is no health concern.


Still standing after all these years.  If there was a toxicity issue, my plants would have taken the hit first. Because of the application and plant's root tip response, copper ions are not translocated thru the plant.



> I am interested in the mechanical means as my friend who worked in horticulture for years asked me about cutting the roots...I just figured it was not good, and when I "upcan" my roots look like they have been chasing something around the pot...


Cut 'em. I'll repeat what I've recommended for years - when you upcan pop the rootball out and using a razor or very sharp knife score the roots vertically. IOW, starting at the top of the rootball, plunge the razor about 1/2" deep and draw down to the bottom making sure you cut thru the roots at the bottom. Rotate the ball so that you do this about 4 times around the perimeter of the rootball. 

And before you ask, no, you won't get root rot. Yes, you will get profuse root branching behind the cuts. This a very common practice in the commercial nursery trade.



> I thought well there is lots of roots and that is good. Using the net pots is also interesting. My buddy mentioned his local garden center selling cuttings in rapid rooters that they just let the outside roots dry out or cut them off...


Those pots work fine unless the RH is real high. I have seen roots continue to grow thru and below the pot under humid greenhouse conditions. 



> this seemed like a bad thing to me but now has me interested...Thanks for sharing your experience here on RIU. This is the kind of stuff that keeps this exciting.
> 
> ¡Mucho Garcia Tio!


De nada. 

Tio Bendejo


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## Hayduke (Jan 25, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Still standing after all these years.  If there was a toxicity issue, my plants would have taken the hit first. Because of the application and plant's root tip response, copper ions are not translocated thru the plant.
> 
> Cut 'em. I'll repeat what I've recommended for years - when you upcan pop the rootball out and using a razor or very sharp knife score the roots vertically. IOW, starting at the top of the rootball, plunge the razor about 1/2" deep and draw down to the bottom making sure you cut thru the roots at the bottom. Rotate the ball so that you do this about 4 times around the perimeter of the rootball.
> 
> ...


Cool thanks for the info on the razor technique this is what my friend was suggesting I believe. Makes sense about the plant taking the first hit and the lack of ion transport. good stuff!


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## Titan4jah (Jan 26, 2009)

so doc, say i want to trim a root bound plant like a 4 month old mother, i can just pop her out a cut the bottom 1/4 inch off her root ball, as well as take some off the sides with a razor? and this will keep her in check with out damage?


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 26, 2009)

Good luck Hayduke.



Titan4jah said:


> so doc, say i want to trim a root bound plant like a 4 month old mother, i can just pop her out a cut the bottom 1/4 inch off her root ball, as well as take some off the sides with a razor? and this will keep her in check with out damage?


You don't need to cut off the bottom, just slice thru the rootball making sure you cut thru the root spinout at the bottom. I hope your mother is in veg as you won't get much root production once the plant moves into a flowering response.

cya ~


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## Titan4jah (Jan 26, 2009)

but see im trying to keep her in the same size pot thus i have to remove roots, ive read about this in the FAQ under bonsai mothers. he said to trim the lower ring of roots off about 1 fourth of an inch

thanks for the input to bro.


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 26, 2009)

Titan4jah said:


> but see im trying to keep her in the same size pot thus i have to remove roots, ive read about this in the FAQ under bonsai mothers. he said to trim the lower ring of roots off about 1 fourth of an inch
> 
> thanks for the input to bro.


Don't get me wrong, it won't hurt doing that, I'm just saying you don't need to, plus I don't think trimming off 1/4" is going to amount to much of anything. 4" off the bottom would, but then you need to trim back the top to compensate for the root loss. Just like when you top a plant, anytime you take out the root tip or cut thru the root, you'll induce secondary branching behind the cut.

UB


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## weedyoo (Jan 26, 2009)

really good info here rep + 
now i have been groing for a while and i just drouned a plant its is easy to over water.sence then now i do not water the soil i fill up a bucket and dip when the bubbles stop you are done.

i am lifting my pots now to tell how heavy they are when they are light i water. 



Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (content revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!, or, My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong? Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the solution the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. Ill try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.
> 
> ...


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 26, 2009)

weedyoo said:


> really good info here rep +
> now i have been groing for a while and i just drouned a plant its is easy to over water.sence then now i do not water the soil i fill up a bucket and dip when the bubbles stop you are done.
> 
> i am lifting my pots now to tell how heavy they are when they are light i water.


Bottom up watering is only needed if you let your soil dry out too much. Water before you see moisture stress - droopy leaves and stems. Also, adding a squirt of Ivory Liquid Dish Soap to your water acts as a cheap surfactant.

Good luck


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## ganicsarebetter (Jan 27, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Bottom up watering is only needed if you let your soil dry out too much. Water before you see moisture stress - droopy leaves and stems. Also, adding a squirt of Ivory Liquid Dish Soap to your water acts as a cheap surfactant.
> 
> Good luck


it seems that the plant lets you know when water is needed. as the good uncle stated before, learn to read the plant...i find that extremely true. thanks uncle ben for a most informative thread and aslo looking forward for that trick up your sleeve...should be good.

thanks again

second week of flower. first shot shows the color and another shows the foilage density. any feedback would be awesome. thanks agin UB.
peace


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 27, 2009)

Under the HPS lighting conditions, lookin' damn good to me. Keep up the good work. Keep dem leaves healthy and green, they are your lifeblood.


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## ganicsarebetter (Jan 27, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Under the HPS lighting conditions, lookin' damn good to me. Keep up the good work. Keep dem leaves healthy and green, they are your lifeblood.


thanks UB. nice to hear words of encouragement. 

the lighting is good...

thanks again.


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## Dirtfree (Jan 29, 2009)

Uncle Ben, I have read your post over and over. It is very helpful. I think one of my plants is having a problem with either low humidity or something...What do you think?


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## MoppinSauce (Jan 29, 2009)

Great thread UB, thanks for the info.

Question for you...I am on week 3 bloom and just started adding Fox Farm Tiger Bloom in addition to what I have been adding - Fox Farm Big Bloom and Open Sesame. I nute every other watering with the first application of Tiger Bloom two days back. Yesterday, the day after the first app of Tiger, I noticed two plants that were nice dark green in color have gone yellowish. The leaves still look healthy and they haven't stopped blooming, but the yellow color worries me. Do you think I overdid it on the nutes? All the others still look green and healthy, why would only two or so be affected? 

Thanks in advance for any support you can provide.


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## smokinHerbOnDaCurb (Jan 29, 2009)

MoppinSauce said:


> Great thread UB, thanks for the info.
> 
> Question for you...I am on week 3 bloom and just started adding Fox Farm Tiger Bloom in addition to what I have been adding - Fox Farm Big Bloom and Open Sesame. I nute every other watering with the first application of Tiger Bloom two days back. Yesterday, the day after the first app of Tiger, I noticed two plants that were nice dark green in color have gone yellowish. The leaves still look healthy and they haven't stopped blooming, but the yellow color worries me. Do you think I overdid it on the nutes? All the others still look green and healthy, why would only two or so be affected?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any support you can provide.


Your not overwatering them are u. You might of over fertilized them . Then agian it could be your lights. The yellowish of some leaves are nomal but more than a few could be a sign of a problem


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## MoppinSauce (Jan 29, 2009)

smokinHerbOnDaCurb said:


> Your not overwatering them are u. You might of over fertilized them . Then agian it could be your lights. The yellowish of some leaves are nomal but more than a few could be a sign of a problem


Definitely not overwatering, I go at least 3 days between and finger check daily. I have not added any veg nute tho as the Ocean Forest was pretty stacked in that regard. But, the yellowing just started after the first application of the Tiger. I am hoping when the lights go on I don't see others affected as well. They were all 100% healthy before the app of Tiger so I think I overdid it. Will they recover to the beautiful dark green I was enjoying over time? I don't think it's an N deficiency, but it could be given I haven't really given any veg nutes at all. Next feeding is straight water but after that I think I will dose with the FF Grow a bit. Suggestions welcome.

Thanks


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 29, 2009)

MoppinSauce said:


> Great thread UB, thanks for the info.
> 
> Question for you...I am on week 3 bloom and just started adding Fox Farm Tiger Bloom in addition to what I have been adding - Fox Farm Big Bloom and Open Sesame. I nute every other watering with the first application of Tiger Bloom two days back. Yesterday, the day after the first app of Tiger, I noticed two plants that were nice dark green in color have gone yellowish. The leaves still look healthy and they haven't stopped blooming, but the yellow color worries me. Do you think I overdid it on the nutes?


They are reacting to a NPK that doesn't support healthy green leaves. Too much P and not enough N. It's typical of the cannabis trade.



> All the others still look green and healthy, why would only two or so be affected?


Beats the shit outta me. Perhaps they need more N.

Good luck ~


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## cloneup (Jan 30, 2009)

great thread, i was wondering what you think is wrong here, they were doing great, nice root, nice green, 4 days ago i cut clones, put in bigger pots, fed yesterday, put them in bud, and this is what i woke up to today, advice? would be great, thanks


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## lovetotoke420 (Jan 30, 2009)

Please help, my plant look ok indicas short and good color, but when I give them water one or two leafs simply turn sideways or almost upside down. I was givin a little to much water , and started giving less . did I give to little water or what?
Thank a bunch to anyone that helps me!!! Keep on smoking!!!


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 30, 2009)

cloneup said:


> great thread, i was wondering what you think is wrong here, they were doing great, nice root, nice green, 4 days ago i cut clones, put in bigger pots, fed yesterday, put them in bud, and this is what i woke up to today, advice? would be great, thanks


1. Did you "butcher" the root system as opposed to the rootball coming out clean and intact?

2. What did you feed them with and how much?

UB


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## MoppinSauce (Jan 30, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> They are reacting to a NPK that doesn't support healthy green leaves. Too much P and not enough N. It's typical of the cannabis trade.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you sir. So, just add a bit of the Grow and I should be in better shape or don't add the Grow?

Thanks again.


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## cloneup (Jan 30, 2009)

no butchering, they came out nice and clean, they have been fed Age Old grow 12-6-6 (1fl.oz per gal) 3 weeks ago, and 2 days ago were fed Age Old bloom 5-10-5 (1fl. oz per gal), i use fox farm ocean forest medium, they get about 2-3 cups of ph'd water (6.5) when needed


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 30, 2009)

MoppinSauce said:


> Thank you sir. So, just add a bit of the Grow and I should be in better shape or don't add the Grow?
> 
> Thanks again.


Since the Grow is higher in N, use it instead of the Tiger Bloom, which is what's inducing your leaf drop. Good luck!


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 30, 2009)

cloneup said:


> no butchering, they came out nice and clean, they have been fed Age Old grow 12-6-6 (1fl.oz per gal) 3 weeks ago, and 2 days ago were fed Age Old bloom 5-10-5 (1fl. oz per gal), i use fox farm ocean forest medium, they get about 2-3 cups of ph'd water (6.5) when needed


1 fl. oz aka 2 Tblsp. per gallon!!!? Ouch! For indoor potted plants, 1 tsp./gallon is usually sufficient and 2 tsp. is pushing it. That's what's causing the leaf curl. It's a response to water actually being drawn out of the plant. Less is more.

Like I said in the ditty:


> 1. *Over-fertilizing* - the most common cause of leaf cupping aka leaf margin rolling, leaf margin burn, and leaf tip curl/burn is the overzealous use of too much plant food in relationship to factors such as plant size, vigor and rate of growth. The first unit of a plant to show moisture stress is the leaf at its margins and/or tips, reflected by margin rolling (cupping) or burning. Sometimes copper colored necrotic spots show in the leaf also. A hard, crispy feel to the leaf frequently occurs as well, as opposed to a soft and cool feel of a happy leaf. When you have a high concentration of salts in solution (or in the root medium) compared to lower salinity levels found in the plant&#8217;s tissue, water is actually drawn out of the plant across the root gradient in order to fix the ppm imbalance. IOW, this is a natural, osmotic response that serves to equalize salinity levels on both sides of the root&#8217;s epidermal gradient. Back off on the amount and/or frequency of plant food. Too much plant food can also burn the roots, especially the sensitive root tips and hairs, which then creates another set of problems such as nutrient deficiencies. A note for the bio folks - as soil dries, the concentration of the remaining salts rises further exacerbating the problem. Leach (flush) your pots once in a while to get rid of excess salts.


Comment about your watering drill - no need to measure in cups, measure in terms of a good runoff after you water. If I were you I'd flush those pots a bit with rainwater. Doesn't mean the affected leaves will return to a flat position, but it will correct a saline situation in the medium. Look at the new growth, not the old to verify if you're back on track. Your leaves are still productive, but if you don't get a handle on the moisture stress then they won't be....they'll be gone LOL.

If dealing with the maintenance of the runoff is an issue, do what I do. Drench the pots well and use a turkey baster to suck up the water from the saucers. Deposit it into a 1 gallon plastic milk jug and use this tea to water your indoor houseplants or veggie garden - they'll love it. 

Good luck,
UB


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## cloneup (Jan 30, 2009)

makes all the sense in the world to me, i'm not a nute guy, when i grow outside all they get is rain water and i never have problems, now what i did was seeing how i just repotted them the other night, i took the sopping wet soil out (left the rootball alone) and put new soil in, as for the rain water i'm out, i used my reserves on my last crop, but would melted snow work?


p.s. the measuring cup is just for reference on how much they eat, i do always water slowly till it trickles out the bottom


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 30, 2009)

cloneup said:


> makes all the sense in the world to me, i'm not a nute guy, when i grow outside all they get is rain water and i never have problems, now what i did was seeing how i just repotted them the other night, i took the sopping wet soil out (left the rootball alone) and put new soil in, as for the rain water i'm out, i used my reserves on my last crop, but would melted snow work?


Tap water is fine. 1/2 dozen of one, 6 of the other. Rainwater has some nitrates, especially collected from thunderstorms. 

Soil should never be "sopping wet". A healthy robust root system will wick off excess moisture....."sopping wet" will never occur under good growing conditions.


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## cloneup (Jan 30, 2009)

they were only sopping wet for about 12 hours, i fed them till water trickled out the bottom, next day they were all sagging


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## kalm325 (Feb 2, 2009)

Just started a little micro gro and 3 of my 4 plants are doin alright but one is having alot of trouble. My best plant has some leaves curled under but thats just from the little humidity dome i had on there. been 2 weeks since i germinated them and there isnt even roots coming out of the rockwool except at the top a bit while my other plants have a good amount coming from the net. This is my first actual gro that i have cared about and was jw if anyone can help out. ty


sorry the camera sucks didnt have anything else at the time. I posted pics of all 4 im ok with the really short one but the tall shitty one in the 3rd thumbnail is bothering me alot. this was a few days ago but the 3rd one is still about the same.


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## BlackGrape (Feb 2, 2009)

Hi! this is one of my first grow in numerous years and I have this problem as you can see in the picture. what's going on?! it's more of a yellow brown and only on one of the round leaves and then on the tip of one of the first true leaves, and each blade is pointing upwards. I transplanted yesterday into this larger pot and it seemed like it really took hold, it was doing really well. the light cycle is 16/8. should I keep the light on for more than 16 hrs? 
​


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## cloneup (Feb 2, 2009)

its been 3 days since i gave the snow water, and they have all turned around, all the new growth is perfect, and the big fans are all coming back up, hell yea, thanks UB for the straight forward help, seems hard to find these days around RU, again, thanks big time, +reps!!


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 2, 2009)

kalm325 said:


> Just started a little micro gro and 3 of my 4 plants are doin alright but one is having alot of trouble.


Without a complete overview on your garden, it's anybody's guess what is going on. Obviously it doesn't like the treatment it's getting. Re-read my ditty, the answer should come.



cloneup said:


> its been 3 days since i gave the snow water, and they have all turned around, all the new growth is perfect, and the big fans are all coming back up, hell yea, thanks UB for the straight forward help, seems hard to find these days around RU, again, thanks big time, +reps!!


You're most welcome. 

Good thing that you are concentrating on the health of the new growth since that's all that matters now. Whatever damage has been done to the old....it will not recover.

Good luck,
UB


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 2, 2009)

BlackGrape said:


> Hi! this is one of my first grow in numerous years and I have this problem as you can see in the picture. what's going on?! it's more of a yellow brown and only on one of the round leaves and then on the tip of one of the first true leaves, and each blade is pointing upwards. I transplanted yesterday into this larger pot and it seemed like it really took hold, it was doing really well. the light cycle is 16/8. should I keep the light on for more than 16 hrs?
> ​


Your anxiety and apprehension is getting the best of you. You can't know if "it really took hold" within 24 hours. Also, by moving it so soon you most likely butchered the fine roots and root hairs, not good.

I use 20/4 for veg, but it's all dependent on how much total light is received over a given amount of time regarding carbos produced, plus all the factors that weight in. Check out what "light saturation point" means.

Good luck, 
UB


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## kalm325 (Feb 2, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Without a complete overview on your garden, it's anybody's guess what is going on. Obviously it doesn't like the treatment it's getting. Re-read my ditty, the answer should come.


I will get pictures of my whole set up soon. It is in a cardboard box right now, but within the week i will move it to a 6ft by 30ish in steel mylar lined cabinet with an vent system but right now all i have is a 12in airstone in a 3g tuberwear container with 3in baskets in rockwool. Im using Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Grow right now and have red the label and added 1/4oz per gallon H2O, so 4.75tsp for the 2.5 gal i put in the tank. I also have a small pump with a tube running through the side of the box that i pump the water out of the tank with. I run my tap water through a brita filter and let it sit for a day or 2 in a 5gal pail to distill it. all the other plants are fine, i even moved the plant around. When i get access to a camera i will post more pics of the plant. Thanks for your help.

oh ps. the formula says 3-1.5-4 on the front. im assuming thats the NPK but for some reason i remember reading that they are usually like 10-10-10 in a balanced solution but a few of my plants are growing very very well now with the nutrient content. its just that one little guy haveing problems.


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## bdonson (Feb 2, 2009)

Hi Uncle Ben, I've enjoyed reading your posts I think my girl suffers from too much of a good thing 2 weeks into flower 400w hps, Scott soil, snow white, room temp is around 70, using connoisseur, well water ph 7,. From the reading I've done I guess nute burn tho hopefully not too bad yet. I flushed tonight with plain well water. Sorry about the poor pic but hopefully you can make out enough detail to be of some use. Basically new growth is affected curling/rolled up leaves. My plan is too continue to water with ph adjusted water and no nutes. What do you think? Cheers


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 3, 2009)

kalm325 said:


> I will get pictures of my whole set up soon. It is in a cardboard box right now, but within the week i will move it to a 6ft by 30ish in steel mylar lined cabinet with an vent system but right now all i have is....


Just a thought. As the footprint of the garden expands and contracts, how are you going to manage your plants? I use moveable side reflective panels and keep the panels as close to the plants as possible. You can rig something up using very large cardboard panels that furniture is shipped in or 4X8' sheets of foam. Paint them with 3 coats of thinned Behr's Ultra White latex paint.

Brita does a great job of removing salts, especially carbonates and bicarbonates.



> oh ps. the formula says 3-1.5-4 on the front. im assuming thats the NPK but for some reason i remember reading that they are usually like 10-10-10 in a balanced solution but a few of my plants are growing very very well now with the nutrient content. its just that one little guy haveing problems.


Well, as long as you know (and understand the relationship) of the NPK and micro values, and you trust the manufacturer, then that will work. I grow for the most amount of foliage going into flowering, reason why my colas are usually so big. 



bdonson said:


> Hi Uncle Ben, I've enjoyed reading your posts I think my girl suffers from too much of a good thing 2 weeks into flower 400w hps, Scott soil, snow white, room temp is around 70, using connoisseur, well water ph 7,. From the reading I've done I guess nute burn tho hopefully not too bad yet. I flushed tonight with plain well water. Sorry about the poor pic but hopefully you can make out enough detail to be of some use. Basically new growth is affected curling/rolled up leaves. My plan is too continue to water with ph adjusted water and no nutes. What do you think? Cheers


Regarding the quality of the photos, I need to see them under natural light to do a decent assessment.

Whatever, the damage has been done, it's not reversible, and trying to "atone for your sins" by completely pulling nutrition is not the way to go. Moderate your growing plan, less is more. Focus on new growth to see if you took the appropriate corrective action. If the older leaves are still cupped but nice and green, then they are productive.....don't worry about it.

Good luck fellers ~


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## Kriegs (Feb 3, 2009)

Hey, Uncle Ben -- here's a question for you:

This is a pic of one of my females at her base -- note the glossy, swollen nodes at the petiole bases. Almost looks like the leaves were set in glue. And, one gratuituous pic of one of my first girls in my first grow.. yay!

Now, the RIU FAQ on sexing / pre-flowers also shows this character for its female example, but doesn't say anything about it. Note the difference on the male example (fluted, fuzzy stem -- no swollen glossy "globs" anywhere). Link: https://www.rollitup.org/view.php?pg=faq&cmd=article&id=96

Near the top of the plant, the stems and nodes all look the same. It's down low where this character is seen. What's really cool (maybe) is that this showed up well ahead of any preflowers. It also cut across strains -- seen it on both bagseed and bubblelicious.

So far, I have four males and four females -- males all fluted and fuzzy down low, females all swollen and glossy / globby.

Thoughts?


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 3, 2009)

Kriegs said:


> Hey, Uncle Ben -- here's a question for you:
> 
> This is a pic of one of my females at her base -- note the glossy, swollen nodes at the petiole bases. Almost looks like the leaves were set in glue. And, one gratuituous pic of one of my first girls in my first grow.. yay!
> 
> Thoughts?


Looks like the results of a detached leaf petiole which has calloused over the wound. 

Here's a shot of one of my crosses - O. HazeXC99. The female pre-flowers' shot is better than the link you sent IMO, reason why I'm attaching it. Notice there is no leaf petiole loss and no "bulging".








That shot was taken from this preflowering plant:








Notice there is *NO leaf loss*? Even the tiny leaves at the bottom are still hanging on. This type of leaf retention should be your goal, if you want a really productive plant. 

Good luck on your new fave, lookin' good!


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## OneHit (Feb 3, 2009)

UB, do you lose bottom leaves in flowering? I lose handfuls and handfuls of leaves, but the growth on top is still good.


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## SUPERHANDS (Feb 3, 2009)

uncle ben said:


> that's a natural newbie response, you're apprehensive and fear of the unknown will getcha by the cajones every time. Just keep it simple and grow your plants like you would tomatoes. Remember, pot is a weed and where folks screw it up is by overdoing things.
> 
> Less is more.
> 
> ...


*very wize words people should take note ...*


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## SUPERHANDS (Feb 3, 2009)

uncle ben said:


> works for me.
> 
> I have no experience with feminized seeds. My thoughts are, if you're paying for a service or product and it doesn't deliver, then the seller owes you. Other than the inconvenience of having seeds to mess with, i don't turn down my nose at seeded pot. I think it is every bit as potent as the too often hyped "sensi". I have planted many a seed, not feminized, and had few hermie problems. Hermies seem to arise with mex and other equatorial sativa strains. You just learn to live with it.
> 
> ...


*once again top advise. Rep to you dude.*


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 3, 2009)

OneHit said:


> UB, do you lose bottom leaves in flowering?


Very few.



> I lose handfuls and handfuls of leaves, but the growth on top is still good.


Not as good as it could be. Leaves are the lifeblood of your production. Lose them, lose potential production. It's just simple botany folks. Don't make this growing thing some mystical and romantical thingie requiring you to suck up to every new rocket fuel offering from a hydro store. Cannabis is a weed, grow it like a tomato for Christ's sakes. 

SUPERHANDS, happy to see you find some value in my posts.

Good luck,
UB


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## bdonson (Feb 3, 2009)

Thanks UB. As a footnote I used my new ph meter for the first time tonight. Well water tested at 8.1, pretty alkaline, no big suprise there I guess but I added 2 ml of vineger and brought it down to 6.4 and watered with that. Just for shits and giggles I mixed 2 ml each of connoiseur A and B into 32 oz water. It tested at 6.8. I use A.N. nutes so I guess I better start keeping better track of my ph I'll try to post better pics tomorrow. Cheers


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## SUPERHANDS (Feb 3, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Very few.
> 
> Not as good as it could be. Leaves are the lifeblood of your production. Lose them, lose potential production. It's just simple botany folks. Don't make this growing thing some mystical and romantical thingie requiring you to suck up to every new rocket fuel offering from a hydro store. Cannabis is a weed, grow it like a tomato for Christ's sakes.
> 
> ...


Am old school, been saying for years keep it simple and give them routine they will always thank you, they are weeds, its good like people like yourself to be giving such good info to people that want and need it. respect.


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## Kriegs (Feb 3, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Looks like the results of a detached leaf petiole which has calloused over the wound.
> 
> Here's a shot of one of my crosses - O. HazeXC99. The female pre-flowers' shot is better than the link you sent IMO, reason why I'm attaching it. Notice there is no leaf petiole loss and no "bulging".
> 
> ...


Thanks, UB -- everything's going great right now -- couldn't be happier with results thus far.

I guess I didn't communicate my question very clearly. My plants are very healthy -- the missing leaves were cut off long ago due to some nute burn early in life, and for a little lollipopping effect. None of my leaves have ever been damaged or broken -- I'm kind of a fusspot about everything that way.

These bulges, in my batch, are all on my females, and have just formed gradually over the grow. Male plants in the same strain didn't show this at all. It just seemed like it might be a way to tell male from female earlier than preflowers.


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 4, 2009)

Kriegs said:


> Thanks, UB -- everything's going great right now -- couldn't be happier with results thus far.
> 
> I guess I didn't communicate my question very clearly. My plants are very healthy -- the missing leaves were cut off long ago due to some nute burn early in life, and for a little lollipopping effect. None of my leaves have ever been damaged or broken -- I'm kind of a fusspot about everything that way.


So the bulges aren't at the point of a missing petiole? That was my point. Well, beats the hell outta me. Perhaps I've just never paid attention although I inspect my plants closely. If there is a link between these bulges and the plant's sex, what do you make of it botanically speaking?



> These bulges, in my batch, are all on my females, and have just formed gradually over the grow. Male plants in the same strain didn't show this at all. It just seemed like it might be a way to tell male from female earlier than preflowers.


Got a photo?

Good to hear they are healthy.

UB


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## Kriegs (Feb 4, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> So the bulges aren't at the point of a missing petiole? That was my point. Well, beats the hell outta me. Perhaps I've just never paid attention although I inspect my plants closely. If there is a link between these bulges and the plant's sex, what do you make of it botanically speaking?
> 
> Got a photo?
> 
> ...


That's right -- there's no missing petioles. This is just how they've grown out naturally. The plant base I photographed just happened to be the easiest photo shoot 'cause I had cut the nute-burned leaves. All the lower petiole bases on my females have this.

I regret not having taken photos of the males before pulling them to show the contrast I'm describing. But, look back to your close-up photo above -- that's how the male mainstems looked all the way down until you reach the semi-woody base at the very bottom of the plant. No bulges, not even a hint of such.

I'm not enough of a systematic botanist (the folks that understand the evolutionary significance of these distinctions) to venture a guess on its meaning, but it's clear that this is a very distinct characteristic, and not anomolous to an individual plant. Recall, too, that this feature is clearly shown in the FAQ on sexing.

It's possible that there is a "strain thing" going on here. I unfortunately didn't come away with any female bubblelicious plants in this batch. If I had and they had the glossy bulges, I would then have two different strains showing separate male and female lower stem characteristics. 

It's clear we can't really decide anything at this point - not enough data here. But this is certainly something I'm going to be tracking over the future. If this actually pans out as a male/female characteristic, I could be pulling males a good 10-14 days earlier than normal (this bulging showed at about 2 weeks). Even if it only works within certain strains, that's still very useful, I think. Might even be something people would want to breed into a plant.


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## capnboint (Feb 4, 2009)

well im on my first grow and would like some advice as to what the problem might be. ive tried lowering the amount of watering to 1.5 gallons twice a week but no change after a week. then i tried more water for a week and it got jsut a bit noticeably worse. i have 1 250w hps, 4 4ft grow flourescents and 4 2ft grow florescents. ive barely being adding nutes, heard it was better to under do than overdo it. i have well water and i use unsoftened water for it, hope to get water tested soon.


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## Titan4jah (Feb 5, 2009)

have you tryed letting them dry out and then watering enough tell you get run off to test for ph? its either too much water or a salt build up.


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## capnboint (Feb 5, 2009)

Titan4jah said:


> have you tryed letting them dry out and then watering enough tell you get run off to test for ph? its either too much water or a salt build up.


yeh i let the soil get very dry then watered it and i got a flow out of it after about 1.25 gallons. a buddies coming to test the ph as soon as he can this week.


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 5, 2009)

Howdy ya'll....



capnboint said:


> well im on my first grow and would like some advice as to what the problem might be. ive tried lowering the amount of watering to 1.5 gallons twice a week but no change after a week.


That's because the root system may be in a state of decline. Do not water until the pot feels light to the lift. They are definately showing moisture stress. The amount of water that is wicked off is dependent on leaf mass, temps, RH, etc., but mostly on the amount of leaf mass.



> then i tried more water for a week and it got jsut a bit noticeably worse.


I think we found your answer. They are probably being overwatered.

Yeah, you need to have your well water tested. It may be high in TDS and hard as hell. Run your well water thru a Brita filter. You'd be surprised how much salts are taken out, mostly carbonates and bicarbonates. Remember, what the roots "see" is a sum of the parts - your water, nutes, salts in the soil, etc. You can't beat nature's finest - rainwater. 



> yeh i let the soil get very dry then watered it and i got a flow out of it after about 1.25 gallons


Hmmmmm, you should see runoff quicker than that, unless they were bone dry or you have a super tight soil. A caveat - never allow the soil o completely dry out. That will create dry channels and pockets in the medium that are hell to restore back to a moisture retentive state, especially if the soil is peat based. This is a ion thingie whereby the soil particles repel water molecules. That must be corrected.

If and when the medium does dry out, you should bring it back to a normal state by watering from the bottom up. Add a squirt of Ivory liquid dish detergent to your tub, add water and drop your pot in. Keep adding water to the tub (not your pot) until you see water creep up thru the medium via the drainholes. Leave for about a minute or so and then let it drain.

Good luck,
UB


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## SUPERHANDS (Feb 5, 2009)

*could i just add its best to have your water standing for a few days before use, i take my water from my hot water tap fill some of those office bottles and leave them standing for aprox 2/3 days before i use it, every where is diffrent i live in scotland and the water is some of the very best in the world but it still does not do any harm to put it through a filtter, even a few times.*


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 5, 2009)

SUPERHANDS said:


> *could i just add its best to have your water standing for a few days before use, i take my water from my hot water tap fill some of those office bottles and leave them standing for aprox 2/3 days before i use it, every where is diffrent i live in scotland and the water is some of the very best in the world but it still does not do any harm to put it through a filtter, even a few times.*


Maybe, maybe not. I'd rely on a water analysis before relying on my feelings. Might save ya a bunch of hassles.


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## capnboint (Feb 5, 2009)

ok, a fellow forum member came over today who done a few grows with decent results, my well water has a ph of under 5, we calibrated his stick 2 times to be sure, i would imagine that had something to do with it. i added more drainage cause he checked and said it was get slimey/gunked up at the bottom. he had me mix up the dirt a bit for a cpl inches on top of the soil, and stab into the dirt without getting the root balls to help areate the dirt a bit. well thanx and i hope your twos guys advice help[s out. till my next noob mistake, peace.


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## ugmjfarmer (Feb 5, 2009)

being close to rootbound and moisture was the problem then boint?


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 6, 2009)

capnboint said:


> i added more drainage cause he checked and said it was get slimey/gunked up at the bottom.


When you said it took forever for the water to drain through it raised a flag. BTW, pH does not have a direct bearing on soil structure. Next time open up the soil by amending it with both vermiculite and perlite, about 25% total.

I'm curious. I have never heard of any one having well water under 5. Do you live in a volcanic area or one in which sulfur and/or iron is high in your ground water?



> he had me mix up the dirt a bit for a cpl inches on top of the soil, and stab into the dirt without getting the root balls to help areate the dirt a bit. well thanx and i hope your twos guys advice help[s out. till my next noob mistake, peace.


I would have repotted into a better mix myself. Stabbing it won't help, the channels will just close up over time. Pulling out very small cores vertically through the rootball will work but I doubt if you have such a gadget.


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## BLUNTED4REAL (Feb 6, 2009)

hey UB i have a phosphorus problem i believe and was hoping to put my plants into flower in a week, ive read that gh flora bloom is ok to use to fix this do you think they can recover in a week or should i plan on waitin on flowering them for a lil longer? also any other recomendations of how to fix this?


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 7, 2009)

BLUNTED4REAL said:


> hey UB i have a phosphorus problem i believe and was hoping to put my plants into flower in a week, ive read that gh flora bloom is ok to use to fix this do you think they can recover in a week or should i plan on waitin on flowering them for a lil longer? also any other recomendations of how to fix this?


1. What exactly are you trying to fix?

2. What's the NPK value of GH flora Bloom?


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## BLUNTED4REAL (Feb 7, 2009)

im trying to fix my phosphorus problem, the flora bloom is 0-5-4


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## oceanhaze (Feb 7, 2009)

great info mate!!

thanx!


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## capnboint (Feb 7, 2009)

yeh it was for sure. they look tons better now. thanx


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## capnboint (Feb 7, 2009)

while they arent perfect if you compare it to the pics i posted last u can see how much better it looks now. hal the curve is out of leaves allready. allmost into 3rd week of flowering, cant wait till its done. thanx yall


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 8, 2009)

BLUNTED4REAL said:


> im trying to fix my phosphorus problem, the flora bloom is 0-5-4


Add some N then. IOW find a product that is high in N like fish emulsion, 5-1-1, or add a tad of ammonium sulfate or nitrate in powdered form.

BTW, who in the hell is telling you that GH flora will fix anything? :shocked: A food that is void in N is a recipe for disaster.


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 8, 2009)

capnboint said:


> while they arent perfect if you compare it to the pics i posted last u can see how much better it looks now. hal the curve is out of leaves allready. allmost into 3rd week of flowering, cant wait till its done. thanx yall


No shit, that's a great recovery! Good on ya....


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## bdonson (Feb 8, 2009)

Okay Uncle Ben Take a look at these if you will and let me know where I screwed the pooch so I don't do it again and if it can be saved. 4th week of flowering. vegged with AN a+b sensi grow, at probably too high a rate but no issues until I switched to Connoiseur then a shot of Big Bud after the first week of flowering. I backed off staying a little less than the light feeding on AN's nutrient schedule. I'm using well water which is ph8.1 to start with. Lets see, its a feminized Nirvana Snow White in scotts potting soil,5 gal bucket. fingers are crossed. Jorge's growers bible should arive any day as well.


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## BLUNTED4REAL (Feb 8, 2009)

i think its in the FAQs that said the flora bloom can help fix the phosphorus problem and thanks a lot for the help i had this issue earlier with these plants and thought it was my ph cuz i wasnt testing it and when i did it was off the charts so then i flushed it and brought it down to around 6-6.5 and they got better, they all turned nice and green then a few days ago the problem started coming back


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## Kriegs (Feb 8, 2009)

Hey, UB.. I've got a LST question for you...

I didn't start any LST until my plants were 6 weeks old and just starting to pop flowers -- they're all about 30" tall and covered with pinky-nail sized popcorn buds. Just reticent as a noob to mess with them, more than anything. But, I started some gentle LST on them a week ago bending the top 6-8 inches over about 30-45 degrees. True to form, the side branches went nuts and quickly filled in the gaps, closing in a nice canopy at a not-perfectly but much better even distance from the light (400 HPS). I see a whole lot more hard bud in the future now than had I not, so I'm pleased. 

Here's the question -- Now that I've bent them, I have these great new branches, but also parts of the plants getting starved for light. Before LST, I rotated my plants daily to even out the light. Is the best idea just to keep the arrangement and let the light concentrate on these new branches, and just accept that the "shady parts" won't amount to much? Or, should I keep moving them around, which will place the new "dominant branches" and their buds in the shade for a day or two, but will focus light on other parts? I've also seen suggestions about bending one direction, then back the other, but that also seems to place the new dominant branches at a disadvantage, too.

I guess I'm operating from the idea that under any artificial light, there's only so much useful light to go around, so something gets sacrificed. And, I want quality over quantitiy. The other idea I've considered is getting some inexpensive CFL fixtures and supplementing additional light from the sides.

Next time around, I'll be starting LST a whole lot sooner -- amazing how it works, and how fast.

Interested in your thoughts.. (BTW -- remember the "swollen node" discussion we had awhile back? The last plant did come out female, so all my "swollen node" plants went fem, all my "smooth nodes" went male).


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 8, 2009)

bdonson said:


> Okay Uncle Ben Take a look at these if you will and let me know where I screwed the pooch so I don't do it again and if it can be saved. 4th week of flowering. ....


Yeah, that pooch is barkin' right back at ya. All you can do is back of on the salts. As long as the leaves are still green and capable of photosynthesis, all is not lost.


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 8, 2009)

Kriegs said:


> Hey, UB.. I've got a LST question for you...


I don't do LST, I just don't have the patience for it. Having said that, when you position a branch horizontally it will induce bud production all along the branch. Then again, so will a normal vertical branch. So, it all depends on what the most convenient and effective means of providing light to budsites is for you.

Taking care of the leaves is what's important.

Your call......


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## Kriegs (Feb 9, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> I don't do LST, I just don't have the patience for it. Having said that, when you position a branch horizontally it will induce bud production all along the branch. Then again, so will a normal vertical branch. So, it all depends on what the most convenient and effective means of providing light to budsites is for you.
> 
> Taking care of the leaves is what's important.
> 
> Your call......


Alright.. cool. Thanks. I think I'll try rotating them once a week. So far, everyone looks happy. I can see why you don't have the patience for LST... one more thing you have to manage.


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## mrduke (Feb 9, 2009)

they UB take a look at these and let me know what you think is this a nute burn or too much light? I just trans planted these to hydrton in a ebb flo system they are under a 1000w hps about two feet away with a fan. Ph is set at 5.9. the nutes are flora series 10ml/g micro 20ml/g gro. thanks for any advice.


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 9, 2009)

mrduke said:


> they UB take a look at these and let me know what you think is this a nute burn or too much light? I just trans planted these to hydrton in a ebb flo system they are under a 1000w hps about two feet away with a fan. Ph is set at 5.9. the nutes are flora series 10ml/g micro 20ml/g gro. thanks for any advice.


Hard to tell under HPS, but it looks like leaf scorch to me. As long as they are getting 16 essential elements in a decent ratio, then you can rule out any deficiencies. What is the total NPK value of what your plants "see". 

Another problem - if you just transplanted them, more than likely you destroyed sensitive roots and root hairs. If that's the case, the plant can't uptake water and salts like it should.

Kriegs, I try not to become a slave to my plants. Usually end up doing it anyway. 

Good luck,
UB


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## lurkmaster (Feb 9, 2009)

Any ideas on how I can fix this?

or at least a diagnosis? (growing this in an aerogarden)

Temp is around 75 in my grow space.

I have ~6000 lumens in my 1'x2'x3' grow space.


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 9, 2009)

lurkmaster said:


> Any ideas on how I can fix this?


Not without an explanation of your day by day drills.


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## lurkmaster (Feb 9, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Not without an explanation of your day by day drills.


Ah, well its all in my grow journal, but heres a breakdown.

24/0 from seed in AG (1/31 on this seed)
Nothing but spring water that I let sit out for a few days with the cap off.

Temp has ranged from maybe 85-90 at the hottest point. (was for a few hours).

Its usually around 70-75 inside my grow space.


Root growth is doing fine, I have tons of long healthy roots growing every day. I have a 10" airstone pumping tiny oxygen bubbles up to them also.

I put 1/3 of a nutrient solution in my res and they started to look a little bit better, but then the first night I gave them darkness (18/6) they looked worse in the morning. And now they look how they do.


So I started looking for possible problems..

This thread looked like it might have someone who would have the answer.

If you can't tell from that, I guess its a pH issue.


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 10, 2009)

lurkmaster said:


> Ah, well its all in my grow journal, but heres a breakdown.
> 
> 24/0 from seed in AG (1/31 on this seed)


I recommend a rest. A 20/4 is a nice compromise.



> Nothing but spring water that I let sit out for a few days with the cap off.
> 
> Temp has ranged from maybe 85-90 at the hottest point. (was for a few hours).
> 
> ...


It's not a pH issue. Your plant is suffering from moisture stress witness the "claw" and curling leaves. You didn't say what I feel is the most relevant clue as to what's causing it - too much salts (nutes).

Good luck,
UB


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## lurkmaster (Feb 10, 2009)

Thanks for the response,

I have switched to 18/6 as of yesterday (2 days of 6 hours darkness so far)

They started look crappy before I gave them nutes. I used about 1/3 of a nutrient tablet and they started to look a tiny bit better then got worse.

I think I just got worried and posted here without trying to wait it out, it looks like they are slowly getting better.

I'm glad that I was actually able to positively ID my problem though, now I know what was wrong with my babies =]

one of them doesn't really look that good though.. (dying round leaf was from problems shedding seed membrane from shell)






here is the one I posted a pic of earlier. (looking much better)






does that first plant still look like its suffering from moisture stress? I figured I was in the clear since the other plant started looking better, I'm just assuming that one is slow.


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 12, 2009)

Looks good to me. Good that you're trying to correct a wrong before it gets much bigger. 

I'm curious, what is the NPK value of the food you're giving it?

UB


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## SUPERHANDS (Feb 12, 2009)

If your going to have an uncle, its got to be an uncle Ben.


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## RELENTLESS619 (Feb 13, 2009)

niceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


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## DrBrutus (Feb 14, 2009)

Yes, you just solved every problem and question I had. lol Now I dont know what to do today...


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## shabazz (Feb 15, 2009)

Wsup everyone,Im havin a problem wit my ladies.they all got limp and droopy.I dont kno how to get them bak on track.can someone please help?


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## HOLROYD (Feb 20, 2009)

YO LIKE HOW DIDS YOU GET THEM THAT WAY AND SH*T YO....

Seriously...I'd like to help, but with that kind of vernacular it doesn't look like you understand English very well.

Try a photo and a description of your routine, and maybe some one here can point out what may be useful to you.

Overwatering? First choice. Too little light? Too cold?

What are you growing in what, and for how long?

spencer


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## OneHit (Feb 23, 2009)

UB, question for you. I looked around, but I couldnt find an answer. The bottom branches of one of my plants is very very soft. They arnt hard and crispy like the other main colas. My other plants dont have that problem, bottom branches are firm.

What could be the problem? Let me know if you need pics.

Oh yeah, I watered a few days ago, atleast 3. Ive been checking the weights of the pots, and though the top few inches feel extremely dry to the point the dirt is seperating from the walls. It still has a good weight to it, so its def still wet at the bottom.


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## Where in the hell am I? (Feb 23, 2009)

looks like a good thread to be a part of!


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 23, 2009)

Where in the hell am I? said:


> looks like a good thread to be a part of!


Like the soothsayer said in "O Brother....." 

"Join my friend, join."


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## StevenColbert (Feb 23, 2009)

I will join unfortunately.. I'm about two weeks in...And one stopped growing and the 2 little oval leafs are drooping and turning yellowish/w spots of like copper on one and the two main leafs are drooping as well but still green, while the other one has 4 new leafs and is doing fine?? using FF ocean forest, small amount botanicare nutes...

"Join my friend, join."[/quote]


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## rednug (Feb 23, 2009)

i got a serious question.

someone i knows plant has started to loose leaves within a couple days. then it started to get limp.

theres like two seta of leavs left!


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 23, 2009)

StevenColbert said:


> I will join unfortunately.. I'm about two weeks in...And one stopped growing and the 2 little oval leafs are drooping and turning yellowish/w spots of like copper on one and the two main leafs are drooping as well but still green, while the other one has 4 new leafs and is doing fine?? using FF ocean forest, small amount botanicare nutes...
> 
> "Join my friend, join."


Cotyledons (endosperm) are food storage organs, not true leaves. Once their reserves are used up, expect them to drop.


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 23, 2009)

rednug said:


> i got a serious question.
> 
> someone i knows plant has started to loose leaves within a couple days. then it started to get limp.
> 
> theres like two seta of leavs left!


He needs to read a book on plant culture before actually trying to grow anything.


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 23, 2009)

OneHit said:


> UB, question for you. I looked around, but I couldnt find an answer. The bottom branches of one of my plants is very very soft. They arnt hard and crispy like the other main colas. My other plants dont have that problem, bottom branches are firm.
> 
> What could be the problem? Let me know if you need pics.


Lack of adequate moisture?



> Oh yeah, I watered a few days ago, atleast 3. Ive been checking the weights of the pots, and though the top few inches feel extremely dry to the point the dirt is seperating from the walls.


That's too dry and will create dry channels such that it will be very difficult to wet the soil thoroughly throughout the pot. Water will have a tendency to drain down the sides rather than thru the soil.



> It still has a good weight to it, so its def still wet at the bottom.


Sounds like the roots have not reached the bottom yet. If it had, the plant would feel light. Roots wick off moisture rapidly. Bottom line, your plant does not sound very healthy.

Good luck,
UB


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## 408BayShark (Feb 23, 2009)

How do you adjust the relative humidity? How do you make it more Humid, or less humid?


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## Jerry Garcia (Feb 24, 2009)

UB, thank you for your time. You entertain any question, even if the answer could be found with a minimal amount of reading/research by the individual. Much respect.

Not quite two weeks into my first grow, I have committed the cardinal sin of overwatering...though I blame it mostly on the Miracle Grow Organic potting soil I started with. Maybe with some perlite things could have been better, but it just retained too much moisture. I ditched the MG in favor of FF Ocean Forest and larger 5 1/2" square pots. They continue to produce new leaf growth every day or two, but some leaves still appear droopy.

Taking earlier advice from a thread in RIU, I purchased a $5 moisture meter from lowes, and it may have been the best thing I ever did. The plants that looked the most droopy were the ones with the highest readings on the moisture meter. As a first time grower (I prefer that term to "noob" as I have done many hours of research during these first few weeks) it is hard to determine what is wet and what is dry. Not with this cheap device. I recommend it to anyone (especially first time growers).

One of my more robust little girls has begun to develop some kind of deformation on her first set of serrated leaves. I have been administering no nutrients, only distilled water and my myriad of fluoro's and a 150w hps. Temp fluctuates, typical high 84-86, typical low 70-75. My only problem thus far has been relative humidity. It hovers at 20-25% with the lights on, and 40-50% at night. You indicated in an earlier post if they grow with a low humidity, then go with it. So I am. But just for experimentation's sake, I placed 3 plants in a humidity "tent", using wooden skewers, saran wrap, and tape to create an enclosed environment with locally increased humidity.

Anyway, the plant that developed this problem was the first girl subjugated to the tent. She was one of my strongest early seedlings and was doing just fine (until now).















The first two show the problem area, and I just now noticed another similar patch of badness developing in the second image. The last one shows the general droop discussed in the beginning (that should be corrected as the soil eventually gets dry).

Help my babies Uncle Ben!


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 24, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> UB, thank you for your time. You entertain any question, even if the answer could be found with a minimal amount of reading/research by the individual. Much respect.


Time is limited but I try to answer those that seem stuck. We'll get to the bottom of this thru a series of questions/answers.



> Not quite two weeks into my first grow, I have committed the cardinal sin of overwatering...though I blame it mostly on the Miracle Grow Organic potting soil I started with. Maybe with some perlite things could have been better, but it just retained too much moisture. I ditched the MG in favor of FF Ocean Forest and larger 5 1/2" square pots. They continue to produce new leaf growth every day or two, but some leaves still appear droopy.


If the root system is healthy, I find it next to impossible to overwater. A robust root system will wick away about whatever you give it under normal circumstances, using typical potting soils. MG soil is a good soil. You need to adjust your watering schedule. For starts, I would use taller pots. Seedlings have a pretty long taproot and a taller pot also means less chance of overwatering. Also, when you upcan, sink the plant so that the first node with leafsets is just a hair above the soil line. This will insure root production the entire length of the buried "trunk" and after a week or so, they will take off like a ruptured goose. 



> One of my more robust little girls has begun to develop some kind of deformation on her first set of serrated leaves.


Probably stress related. Try not to read too much into it.



> I have been administering no nutrients, only distilled water and my myriad of fluoro's and a 150w hps.


You don't need to use distilled water, tap is fine and unless you are absolutely certain that MG has NO nutrient charge, then you should be lightly fertilizing. Does the soil have bluish green pellets, encapsulated food?



> Temp fluctuates, typical high 84-86, typical low 70-75. My only problem thus far has been relative humidity. It hovers at 20-25% with the lights on, and 40-50% at night.


RH is fine if the root system is doing its job. When you upcanned, were the rootballs intact or did they fall apart?



> Anyway, the plant that developed this problem was the first girl subjugated to the tent. She was one of my strongest early seedlings and was doing just fine (until now).


So much for tents.  Again, your focus should be on developing a robust root system. When you have one, you'll get this kind of vigor - https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html



> The first two show the problem area, and I just now noticed another similar patch of badness developing in the second image. The last one shows the general droop discussed in the beginning (that should be corrected as the soil eventually gets dry).
> 
> Help my babies Uncle Ben!


What kind of light fixture and how far from the plant tops is it?

Good luck,
UB


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## Where in the hell am I? (Feb 24, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> UB, thank you for your time. You entertain any question, even if the answer could be found with a minimal amount of reading/research by the individual. Much respect.
> 
> Not quite two weeks into my first grow, I have committed the cardinal sin of overwatering...though I blame it mostly on the Miracle Grow Organic potting soil I started with. Maybe with some perlite things could have been better, but it just retained too much moisture. I ditched the MG in favor of FF Ocean Forest and larger 5 1/2" square pots. They continue to produce new leaf growth every day or two, but some leaves still appear droopy.
> 
> ...


Never blame what yer workin with! Yer the 1 who used it!


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## Jerry Garcia (Feb 24, 2009)

> If the root system is healthy, I find it next to impossible to overwater. A robust root system will wick away about whatever you give it under normal circumstances, using typical potting soils. MG soil is a good soil. You need to adjust your watering schedule.


Yes, my watering was a little overzealous at first because I could not detect the moisture level around the roots--the top of the soil was quite dry and the pots seemed light, but they were still retaining moisture and not allowing the "dry" part of its wet/dry cycle. I have repotted in Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil and use the moisture meter to tell me when to water. 



> For starts, I would use taller pots. Seedlings have a pretty long taproot and a taller pot also means less chance of overwatering. Also, when you upcan, sink the plant so that the first node with leafsets is just a hair above the soil line. This will insure root production the entire length of the buried "trunk" and after a week or so, they will take off like a ruptured goose.


I did this with the first upcan (from 16oz cups to the 5.5" square pots) as some had become a little stretched. I probably could have buried more of the stem though, and will do so the next time.

Also, I have 7" square pots that are considerably deeper than the current ones...the problem is limited space. Larger pots = fewer plants so until I sex them I think this is where they will stay.



> Probably stress related. Try not to read too much into it.


 Easier said than done. I'll keep an eye on them.



> You don't need to use distilled water, tap is fine and unless you are absolutely certain that MG has NO nutrient charge, then you should be lightly fertilizing. Does the soil have bluish green pellets, encapsulated food?


As I said, I'm no longer using the MG soil, though it does not have any said nutrient pellets. The analysis does list small percentages of nutrients in the soil. And now I'm using FF.

And as for distilled water, is it detrimental to the plants to use this? Is tap water preferable (other than for cost reasons)?



> RH is fine if the root system is doing its job. When you upcanned, were the rootballs intact or did they fall apart?


They fell apart. But more so because I wanted less MG soil and tried to knock it off before transferring to the new soil. I think they are healthy, but maybe not hardy. They are still young.



> So much for tents.  Again, your focus should be on developing a robust root system. When you have one, you'll get this kind of vigor - https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html


The tent has shown promise for another struggling lady in my garden. The first set of leaves began to significantly curl under, almost where the tips touched the stem. After two days in the tent, she continues new leaf production and just looks healthier. I'm not quite ready to abandon them yet (except for the one with the recent malady).



> What kind of light fixture and how far from the plant tops is it?


I started with a 150w hps. I now have 2 t5 ho fluoro's, 8 26w cfls, and 2 65w cfls. The hps has been moved up about 12" from the plants, and is only used supplementally for a few hours a day. The fluoro's are anywhere from 1-6" from the plant tops (as evident in the photo).

Thanks for the prompt (and detailed) response UB! You are the man!

~JG


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 24, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> And as for distilled water, is it detrimental to the plants to use this? Is tap water preferable (other than for cost reasons)?


Not detrimental, the aggravation is just not needed.



> They fell apart.


That's what I was afraid of. You popped them out too early damaging the root system and now they're showing stress. Has nothing to do with MG soil. It's human nature to project blame where it doesn't rightfully belong, it's part of our feelings while not knowing the facts. Best example is how folks quickly blame pH of the medium, solution, water source, etc. Easy way out, not valid 99% of the time. 



> But more so because I wanted less MG soil and tried to knock it off before transferring to the new soil.


If MG soil was so bad, there wouldn't be tons of it sold and used successfully on an annual basis. By knocking off the soil, you really screwed up the root system especially the sensitive root hairs which are the main engine responsible for the uptake of water and salts (plant food). You want a solid, intact rootball to pop out when upcanning. Again I have to refer you to my thread regarding the Spin-out stuff. 



> The tent has shown promise for another struggling lady in my garden.


Well, since the root system has been compromised, I can see where it might be helpful now.



> The first set of leaves began to significantly curl under, almost where the tips touched the stem. After two days in the tent, she continues new leaf production and just looks healthier. I'm not quite ready to abandon them yet (except for the one with the recent malady).


Don't abandon them. Give them plenty of light without bleaching out the chlorophyll and learn how to balance all factors of plant culture. There is no one deciding factor, it is the sum of the parts.



> I started with a 150w hps. I now have 2 t5 ho fluoro's, 8 26w cfls, and 2 65w cfls. The hps has been moved up about 12" from the plants, and is only used supplementally for a few hours a day. The fluoro's are anywhere from 1-6" from the plant tops (as evident in the photo).


As an aside, a light meter that registers to 10,000 f.c. is a great investment. Not cheap, but worth it.



> Thanks for the prompt (and detailed) response UB! You are the man!
> 
> ~JG


Thanks. Aint my first rodeo hombre. 

Good luck,
Tio


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## OneHit (Feb 25, 2009)

UB, Heres a pic of the plant. I watered yesterday about 12 hrs ago. It looks a bit better, but I cant be too sure. What can I do to fix this problem? Im 7 weeks into flowering


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## Jerry Garcia (Feb 25, 2009)

Gracias amigo. If I need further advice I know where to turn.


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 25, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Gracias amigo. If I need further advice I know where to turn.


De nada ~



OneHit said:


> UB, Heres a pic of the plant. I watered yesterday about 12 hrs ago. It looks a bit better, but I cant be too sure. What can I do to fix this problem? Im 7 weeks into flowering


Beats the hell outta me. Without knowing what you've been doing from day one, I can only guess. You been naughty and using too much Bloom food? 

UB


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## OneHit (Feb 25, 2009)

Heh, I dont think Ive been using too much nutes. I've only used nutes with every other watering, and trying to pay attention to the shade of the lower leaves.

Atleast the buds still look nice, nice and heavy too. Ive been treating all my plants the same too, only this one has the problem


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## widow87 (Feb 27, 2009)

uncle ben i was wondering if u recommend that spin out product because i was thinking of giving it a try after seeing u in action i was also wondering where to find that product thanks for spreading ur knowledge of with everyone its greatly appreciated ......widow87


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## Chettybear (Feb 27, 2009)

to your plant moisture stress list. thank you for that, chettybear is on vacation and im doing my best to find out what is wrong and fix it. pretty sure at this point that is is a combination of two tings. over fertilizing and possibly even over watering,but mostly the ferts. as they say. it will be a sad day if chetty is too late. but again thank you for all of your knowledge you impart to everyone. i have been studying and copying notes from you for the past two days and have alrady learned so much, i feel dumb for not listening before. but i'm learning as i go which i guess is all anyone can do. thank you so much again.
chettybear's other girl.


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 28, 2009)

OneHit said:


> Heh, I dont think Ive been using too much nutes.


I didn't say "nutes" my friend, I said "Bloom food". It's the ratio of NPK that you need to focus on. Bookmark this, it's what everyone needs to understand but few do - nutrient antagonism - http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm



widow87 said:


> uncle ben i was wondering if u recommend that spin out product because i was thinking of giving it a try after seeing u in action i was also wondering where to find that product thanks for spreading ur knowledge of with everyone its greatly appreciated ......widow87


It is probably only available to commercial ag growers now. It works great with pot and other plant material. Do a Google.



Chettybear said:


> .....i have been studying and copying notes from you for the past two days and have alrady learned so much, i feel dumb for not listening before. but i'm learning as i go which i guess is all anyone can do. thank you so much again.
> chettybear's other girl.


Wow! Flattery will get you nowhere hehe. My approach is very basic, a botanical approach. If you can learn what makes a plant tick, treat cannabis like the weed it is rather than destroying its health/vigor with trendy trickery, rocket fuels and snake oils.....you'll do fine. One of my best gardens regarding growing super healthy and productive pot was my first. Plants were large, full of healthy green foliage up to the end and produced chunky big ass colas. I didn't have forum paradigms and hype to mess me up then. 

Make it a great day,
UB


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## OneHit (Feb 28, 2009)

UB, Ive never heardu mention foliar feeding, do you? 

Just read about elemential mobility. Very useful, deserves a read. The only leaves that die off for me are the older leaves, so that means Im missing one of the 3, NPK right?


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 28, 2009)

OneHit said:


> UB, Ive never heardu mention foliar feeding, do you?


 Being that it is so short lived, only if there is a deficiency.



> Just read about elemential mobility. Very useful, deserves a read. The only leaves that die off for me are the older leaves, so that means Im missing one of the 3, NPK right?


The N in lower leaves will be sacrificed by the plant to newer growth. Very low light levels will also induce leaf drop - your call. 

I guarantee if you're using one of the typical Bloom foods, exclusively, you'll lose lower leaves and more as the symptom/result moves up the plant. What these manufacturer's are conveniently forgetting to tell you (and manufacturers of "cannabis specific" foods are the worst) is that it's leaves that produce flowers/fruit, not their plant food. You can use all the Bloom food you want, but you progressively start losing the very unit that produces bud and you're in deep shit.


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## OneHit (Feb 28, 2009)

UB, if thats the case, whats the point of using bloom foods? In that case, it seems like the opposite of what you actually want is happening.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 1, 2009)

OneHit said:


> UB, if thats the case, whats the point of using bloom foods?


Nothing bad really, it can help the transition from veg to flowering mode.... but labels sell and that's what counts in the real world, profits. Here's my take on the industry - if P supports good flower production, then lot's of P produces lots of flowers. (There's a term for this kind of logic, someone help me out). A 10-62-10 may be OK outdoors in native soil where P tends to get bound (locked up) by Ca, but in regular indoor soils or hydro, you've got to be careful to not overdo it.



> In that case, it seems like the opposite of what you actually want is happening.


If often does. As I said in a previous post, when is P enough? Is a food that is a 10-62-10 better for flower production or is a food that is a 10-8-10 have enough P for good flower production while maintaining leaf health? I go with the latter premise. The question for the grower should be, *"when do I reach a point where too much of one macro becomes antagonistic to the uptake of other elements?"* That's where folks go wrong, by applying too much or too little of a certain NPK ratio. http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

Just because the label or chart _tells you_ to use such and such doesn't mean it's best for _your_ plant. If you see a plant that is yellowing from the bottom up, and you've been using a bloom food low in N for the past 3 weeks of 12/12, then it should be a red flag that something's wrong. I raised an outdoor plant a couple of years ago that was exclusively fed a slow release (polymer encapsulated) 10 month high N food mixed into my custom potting soil before planting. It was a 18-4-9 with micros, and every time I would switch to a bloom food, it balked. Leaves turned yellowish, etc. Even though it automatically flowered on the 6th node (it obviously had some rudy in it) it produced 25 oz of some really cerebral sativa type bud. BTW, it was topped as a seedling in an effort to get 4 main colas, which happened.

Funny how this is pinging back and forth, but here's a ditty I did long ago on the issue of P abuse. https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/158144-never-ending-abuse-phosphorous-bloom.html#post2160356

Tio


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## xxxgno (Mar 1, 2009)

I have white spots on the leaves of my plants in both my growroom and flowering room.Anyone have an idea what the friek this could be?


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## dream2003 (Mar 5, 2009)

1st time growing 3 weeks flowering - ram horns 4 1 week ???


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## Kriegs (Mar 5, 2009)

Regarding pH and overnute issues. They're a little yellow-y from the HID -- if you think you see spots, you do. A couple are quite clear, along with their crispy necrotic tips (more like 1/2 up the leaf than tips, actually). Damn death march is eating my trichs, as you can see.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 5, 2009)

Kriegs said:


> Regarding pH and overnute issues. They're a little yellow-y from the HID -- if you think you see spots, you do. A couple are quite clear, along with their crispy necrotic tips (more like 1/2 up the leaf than tips, actually). Damn death march is eating my trichs, as you can see.


You can't blame the HID for that, you need to consider the food you're using, assuming you were using the HID long before those stress symptoms showed up.

UB


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## Kriegs (Mar 5, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> You can't blame the HID for that, you need to consider the food you're using, assuming you were using the HID long before those stress symptoms showed up.
> 
> UB


No, no.. you misunderstood me. I was just talking about the yellowish cast that HID throws on a photo.. It obscures the intensity of the spotting a little, but you can still see it well.


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## dream2003 (Mar 5, 2009)

ramhorn or claw leafs she need help anyone. claw leafs for 7days so I flushed with 1 gallon of water then trance planted from 1gallon to 3 gallon pot very root bound. water ph 6.4 temp lights on 82-84 time release ferts water every 3-4 days.growing in box lids open using 2-42 cfls 1-27watt cfl humid 55


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## Kriegs (Mar 6, 2009)

dream2003 said:


> ramhorn or claw leafs she need help anyone. claw leafs for 7days so I flushed with 1 gallon of water then trance planted from 1gallon to 3 gallon pot very root bound. water ph 6.4 temp lights on 82-84 time release ferts water every 3-4 days.growing in box lids open using 2-42 cfls 1-27watt cfl humid 55


What's your soil runoff pH? I tried to PM you so as to not hijack UB's theme here. Perhaps start another thread.

Your plants look EXACTLY like mine did at that stage. I turned out to have serious low pH.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 6, 2009)

Kriegs said:


> Your plants look EXACTLY like mine did at that stage. I turned out to have serious low pH.


"crispy necrotic tips" is not a pH problem Kriegs, it is a response to too much salts. Please re-read the first post of this thread, I addressed the visible signs and I quote - _*"1. Over-fertilizing - the most common cause of leaf cupping aka leaf margin rolling, leaf margin burn, and leaf tip curl/burn is the overzealous use of too much plant food in relationship to factors such as plant size, vigor and rate of growth. The first unit of a plant to show moisture stress is the leaf at its margins and/or tips, reflected by margin rolling (cupping) or burning. Sometimes copper colored necrotic spots show in the leaf also."*_

Which I questioned in my latest PM response to you. I think you blasted them with too much salts based on their rate of growth. You must gear the amount of salts (nutes) you give plants based on their requirements, not some label, chart or a _he said-she said_.

Regarding pH tests, like I told Kriegs, pH is the first "problem" new growers blame, it's the easy way out. I'll repeat my (embellished) PM response here for the benefit of the lurkers:

I don't think it was a pH problem, even Miracid does not have the acidic effects you describe. pH causes lockouts at extremes of the pH range, you're getting burn from salts, sounds like ya overdid it based on what you've divulged to me so far.

pH issues are the first thing new growers point their finger at, Mg deficiency is next, it's the easy way out as opposed to understanding ALL of the dynamics of plant culture. Whatever, unless you can get me the CaCO3 equivalency (potential acidity) of your food off the label or from a tech sheet, it's anybody's guess what the pH effect is. If that is not available, look on the label and tell me what salts are used to provide the macros. I can tell you what's going on if you can give me that info. The CaCO3 ditty should read something like this - *Potential Acidity: 1540 lb. calcium carbonate equivalent per ton. *IOW, it takes 1,540 lbs. of CaCO3 (lime) to equalize 2,000 lbs. of this particular food to a neutral pH value - 7.0. The higher the PA is, the more acidic the food is and vice versa.

I also don't trust 90% of peeps' pH reports. Contrived pH issues often lie in the inaccuracy of the tests, methods used, quality of meter, lack of calibration using BOTH fresh fluids, etc.

How and with what did you measure pH?

Here is a spec sheet on an acid special food: http://www.scottspro.com/_documents/WSF/PetersProfessional/H4068.pdf
Note that that plant food mix contains 3 sulfates and boric acid, that's why it has an acidic affect.

There IS a "method to my madness". 

UB


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## dream2003 (Mar 6, 2009)

I use a ph test kit with ph test solution .I put water in a 5 ml tube and put 3 drops in of ph test solution shak the tube cheak the colur of the solution and its 6.4.dont no run off ph of soil. potting soil ferts is 0.08-0.12-0.08 minimum analisis


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## Kriegs (Mar 7, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> "crispy necrotic tips" is not a pH problem Kriegs, it is a response to too much salts. Please re-read the first post of this thread, I addressed the visible signs and I quote - _*"1. Over-fertilizing - the most common cause of leaf cupping aka leaf margin rolling, leaf margin burn, and leaf tip curl/burn is the overzealous use of too much plant food in relationship to factors such as plant size, vigor and rate of growth. The first unit of a plant to show moisture stress is the leaf at its margins and/or tips, reflected by margin rolling (cupping) or burning. Sometimes copper colored necrotic spots show in the leaf also."*_
> 
> Which I questioned in my latest PM response to you. I think you blasted them with too much salts based on their rate of growth. You must gear the amount of salts (nutes) you give plants based on their requirements, not some label, chart or a _he said-she said_.
> 
> ...


Just PM'ed you on this.. didn't look here first. Wish I did so we could share all of this.

For reasons more fully explained in the PM, you can have faith in my pH determination. 

I'm with ya... pH is usually the explanation when all else fails. My pH was around 4.0 -- that's a problem for any plant, except spahgnum moss and pond cypress.

Saw your comment on sulfates just above - your request to list salts in my nutes (I listed them in the PM) got me to see this -- there are sulfates and borates in Foxfarm nutes just like the acid mix you describe above. Tellin' ya bro, this FF shit is very acidic... that's prob. where it's coming from. Can't believe so many MJ growers recommend this shit, at least without saying 'WATCH OUT FOR THAT PH"

And I see a helluva lotta Foxfarm users on this site, and a lot of pic's like dream2003's.. 

For all of that, my babes really do seem to have arrested it. Tested pH on another plant today -- solidly betw 6-7. The "march" looks stopped, and they're poppin new bud all over, including right in the middle of the existing colas -- is this the "second surge" a lot of peeps describe? Based on how far up and in "the march" went, I suspect I was easily less than a week from total disaster had I not caught this pH business.


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## dream2003 (Mar 7, 2009)

Is straight snow water good 4 plants? I mix snow and tap water. my tap water ph is 2 high 7.6


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## Stan'sSecretStash (Mar 8, 2009)

Quick question

If you use a moisture meeter, should you go by the reading at the very bottom of the container?

Second I have a small air compressor and use it by putting the nozzel directly into the soil and blowing air directly into the soil am I hurting the roots by doing this ?


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## cavemankay (Mar 10, 2009)

my plant wilted from one day to next 3 mo. old 5gal in soil 400w mh last watered 4 days ago w/ half recomended veg and vit b1 per the gallon for total of 2.5 gal per 5 gal need help


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## cavemankay (Mar 10, 2009)

by the look of your posts and replies ...its seems you know your stuff...think you can be of help ? i have a few vegging plants in a closet on a 18/6 cycle 5 gal pots and about 3 months old i use high grade potting soil my setup is pretty basic.....now , the one im concerned about is heavy wilting in only one......i watered it four days ago and i gave half the recommended veg and b-1....woke up this morning to find this problem ....when i noticed i thought maybe over fed veg solution so i thought flushing it with water and its still not reviving....am i drowning it??????


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 10, 2009)

cavemankay said:


> by the look of your posts and replies ...its seems you know your stuff...think you can be of help ? i have a few vegging plants in a closet on a 18/6 cycle 5 gal pots and about 3 months old i use high grade potting soil my setup is pretty basic.....now , the one im concerned about is heavy wilting in only one......i watered it four days ago and i gave half the recommended veg and b-1....woke up this morning to find this problem ....when i noticed i thought maybe over fed veg solution so i thought flushing it with water and its still not reviving....am i drowning it??????


Perhaps an unhealthy root system? There are many factors that can cause a lack of tissue turgor.


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## reinstorm (Mar 11, 2009)

hey my plants are around 80-85 degrees sometimes get to 88, i'm not sure why its so inconsistent, but is that temp too high? my leaves on all my plants have started to curl under, then i watered them more then they started curling up, and now some are curled under and some are curled up. sounds like a heat problem from reading your post but i didnt think my temp was that high.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 12, 2009)

reinstorm said:


> hey my plants are around 80-85 degrees sometimes get to 88, i'm not sure why its so inconsistent, but is that temp too high? my leaves on all my plants have started to curl under, then i watered them more then they started curling up, and now some are curled under and some are curled up. sounds like a heat problem from reading your post but i didnt think my temp was that high.


Maybe "it" has nothing to do with temp. Maybe it has to do with too many salts.


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## bgmike8 (Mar 12, 2009)

i was flooding the tray every 2 hours. since the water barely touched the rockwool i thought more was better, but i think the leaves are saying help your drowning us you stupid fuck.

im switching to twice daily, does that seem right?


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 13, 2009)

bgmike8 said:


> i was flooding the tray every 2 hours. since the water barely touched the rockwool i thought more was better, but i think the leaves are saying help your drowning us you stupid fuck.
> 
> im switching to twice daily, does that seem right?


How could you drown the plants if you're not saturating the entire rockwool cube? They may be starved for moisture. I don't do rockwool, but a root medium is a root medium whether it be organic soil, soil-less, rock, or rockwool. You need to saturate the entire root medium and then go from there regarding frequency and proper aeration.

The issue is not necessarily too much water, it's too much water such that it prevents proper air exchange at the root zone.

UB


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## bgmike8 (Mar 13, 2009)

this rockwool sucks up water quicker than a fucking bounty paper towel. the bottom centimeter was touching the water but the whole fucking cube is soaked.


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## CodyCasualtiesEngland (Mar 13, 2009)

what is rootbound?


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## CodyCasualtiesEngland (Mar 13, 2009)

i am in the 18-6 light cycle. I went down to check on my plant and it was all droopy. It got rally cold so i put a heater on it and check the next day and it was just as bad if not worse. I replanted it in new soil. When i pulled it out of the old pot all the roots were clumped together and could no longer spread out. I knocked some of the loose dirt of off the roots then replanted it. I have a thread with pics on it if you want to see. Thank you and any advise would be awesome!!!


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 14, 2009)

CodyCasualtiesEngland said:


> i am in the 18-6 light cycle. I went down to check on my plant and it was all droopy. It got rally cold so i put a heater on it and check the next day and it was just as bad if not worse. I replanted it in new soil. When i pulled it out of the old pot all the roots were clumped together and could no longer spread out. I knocked some of the loose dirt of off the roots then replanted it. I have a thread with pics on it if you want to see. Thank you and any advise would be awesome!!!


You just butchered the root system and destroyed root hairs. Expect plant stress until it recovers, if it ever does. When you upcan, do not break up the rootball.

Good luck,
UB


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## FollyFool (Mar 15, 2009)

Great post + rep.Information I needed badly.One other problem I discovered this am was what looks like white mold or mold on old bread all over the top layer of my soil.What exactly is the cause of this?I'm using Root's organic soil,plenty of air circulation,temp's between 77-80.I only water every 2-3 day's.Any help would be welcomed.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 15, 2009)

Mold grows only in a humid (moisture saturated) environment.


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## cloneup (Mar 16, 2009)

hey UB, just wanted to show you my plants, the very water stressed ones, LOL, like i said, let alone for a few days, then hit them with melted snow (perfect ph @6.5) and wow, no nutes ('cept fer the very first feedin) and these are the biggest i've gown in doors, the colas are as big as beer bottles, LOL, again, thanks for your no nonsense help, there needs to be alot more ppl like you on this site that truely want to help and dont have you running to the garden store for some new magic everyday, its always something small and takes even less effort and time to fix, people always think that doing more or buying magic will fix the problems and it doesn't, again, thanks 






















heres the next batch, not as big, but heathy as all hell,


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 17, 2009)

cloneup said:


> hey UB, just wanted to show you my plants, the very water stressed ones, LOL, like i said, let alone for a few days, then hit them with melted snow (perfect ph @6.5) and wow, no nutes ('cept fer the very first feedin) and these are the biggest i've gown in doors, the colas are as big as beer bottles,


Wow! Beautiful job mah man! Keep those leaves healthy and green. 



> LOL, again, thanks for your no nonsense help, there needs to be alot more ppl like you on this site that truely want to help and dont have you running to the garden store for some new magic everyday, its always something small and takes even less effort and time to fix, people always think that doing more or buying magic will fix the problems and it doesn't, again, thanks


Couldn't have said it better myself. 

Glad to be here and sharing..... where folks seem anxious to learn rather than troll. It's refreshing. 

Happy gardening,
UB


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## Katatawnic (Mar 17, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Glad to be here and sharing..... where folks seem anxious to learn rather than troll. It's refreshing.


 Very refreshing, indeed! This is now the only growing site I read, and the only one to which I've ever posted. *All* the info I've needed is here (I rarely need to ask, as my questions are nearly always already answered), without needing to weed through the trolls.... if you'll pardon the pun.


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## bgmike8 (Mar 17, 2009)

so i put my soil in a four by four tray and then when i pumped the water in all the soil turned to mud and clogged up my whole pump and tray. what do i do?


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 18, 2009)

bgmike8 said:


> so i put my soil in a four by four tray and then when i pumped the water in all the soil turned to mud and clogged up my whole pump and tray. what do i do?


Let's check out his thread fellas, perhaps we can help.
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/171487-bgmike8-first-grow-ever-all-2.html

UB


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## bgmike8 (Mar 18, 2009)

dude i was just joking. who the hell would put soil in a flood and drain tray?

thasnks though. i think i will give up the comedy.


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## MoppinSauce (Mar 19, 2009)

Hey UB,

I could use a bit of guidance. I've got 3 girls recently transplanted to reconditioned soil two days ago showing brownish/red spotting on the older growth, some on the new growth. 

I amended my soil with a bag of FFOF and Dolomite Lime at 2 Tbls/gallon.

Can you please have a look at the pics and point me in the right direction? Let me know if better pics are needed. 

They were 100% healthy before the transplant and I was feeding them FF Grow and Big Bloom a bit. They are about a foot tall and at 5 weeks veg.

I am transplanting a bunch more and don't want to run into a problem.

Thanks in advance.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 21, 2009)

Did the rootball come out intact or did you damage the roots?

What's the total NPK of the combined foods?

Copperish colored dots can be caused by several things - insect damage such as mites but most likely too much plant food. Inspect the underside of the leaves with a 5X loupe.

Good luck,
UB


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## MoppinSauce (Mar 23, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Did the rootball come out intact or did you damage the roots?
> 
> What's the total NPK of the combined foods?
> 
> ...


Rootballs were all in tact, close to root bound I would say as I had them in solo cups for 5 weeks or so. Not sure on the totals, but the veg nutes I am using are 6-4-4 and the Fox Farm Ocean soil I amended with about a 1/3 perlite. I am thinking nute burn as well as the ones I transferred to pro mix are not suffering as bad. All seem to be doing well despite the brown spots, but I am reluctant to bloom until I get this figured out. Definitely not mites, ruled that out already. Thanks for your guidance as always sir.


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## 420Brazilian (Mar 23, 2009)

Help please
What's wrong with my gurlz ???


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 24, 2009)

MoppinSauce said:


> Rootballs were all in tact, close to root bound I would say as I had them in solo cups for 5 weeks or so. Not sure on the totals, but the veg nutes I am using are 6-4-4 and the Fox Farm Ocean soil I amended with about a 1/3 perlite. I am thinking nute burn as well as the ones I transferred to pro mix are not suffering as bad. All seem to be doing well despite the brown spots, but I am reluctant to bloom until I get this figured out. Definitely not mites, ruled that out already. Thanks for your guidance as always sir.


Well, you didn't say how much and often on the foods but more than likely that is the ever prevailing cardinal sin of cannabis forums that is acting like the devil. 

Good luck,
UB


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## fulltimesmoker (Mar 24, 2009)

HI UB,

Just wondering If you could take a look at one of my plants. She is one week into 12/12 and was topped using your technique for four main colas and is looking great apart from in the last four days two of the lower leaves have developed crispy brown spots.She is in soil (gold label) which is suppose to have enough food for the first six weeks, so she has only had ph'd water untill yesterday when i fed her bio-bloom & bloom stimulater @ 2ml per litre. Is this just the first stages of the N running out or could it be more serious? Also do you think the bio-buzz is up to the job of keeping her green untill the end?


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## MoppinSauce (Mar 25, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Well, you didn't say how much and often on the foods but more than likely that is the ever prevailing cardinal sin of cannabis forums that is acting like the devil.
> 
> Good luck,
> UB


 
When they were in solo cups I was feeding full dose recommended at 2-3t gallon on the Grow and started to mix in some of their organic big bloom, which is more like a plant tonic, at 1 Tbls per gallon. They were lovin it with lush green rapid growth. As they were in the solo cups and 5 weeks old they were thirsty so I had to water daily - feeding every other day.

Once I transplanted to the FFOF soil amended with 1/3 perlite did I start seeing problems. Here's my thought, they were already so loaded up with ferts that when I transplanted to the soil with nutes in it it was just plain overkill. Also, the roots were a bit bound and not the vibrant white I was looking for after being in the cups for 5 weeks. 

They are recovering it seems now and most are 12 inches under 18-6. Do you think I should wait a bit until they can spread their roots a bit before flowering or will the 16ounces of roots they currently have suffice for the beginning of bloom and additional synthetic bloom nutes ie Tiger Bloom and Open Sesame? They did develop quite the root system in those cups - it was a solid lb of roots in each. I have watered them twice in the last week since transplant and they are in 2 gallon containers.

I am still seeing browning on the leaves on some of the girls older growth, new growth looks good.

As always, thanks for your support my friend.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 25, 2009)

fulltimesmoker said:


> HI UB,
> 
> Just wondering If you could take a look at one of my plants. She is one week into 12/12 and was topped using your technique for four main colas and is looking great apart from in the last four days two of the lower leaves have developed crispy brown spots.


Then you need to look back at what you did upon the change, what differs.


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## Lung Butter (Mar 26, 2009)

I wish I would have read this earlier. I hope it is not to late. Things were going really well intill about half way through flower. Then my girls started to do as you discribed in your over fert section. I though it was spidermites I flushed as discribed I hope it works. Basically I have 6 girls under 1000mh in soil mix I've used outside for years. I've aways used fox farms fert. no problems. But I went to a grow shop and they suggested I try bud blaster in conguction with my norm flower fert. I gave as dirrected, and was burning my girls while I was trying to fight off a few spidermites that really wern't hurting anything .

Thanks again for your spot on Dx. of over fert. problems it fit my plant to a tee. I have done all that was suggested I hope it is not to late. Any other advise or incouragment would be cool.


Sorry about my user name it was all I could come up with.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 27, 2009)

Lung Butter said:


> I wish I would have read this earlier. I hope it is not to late. Things were going really well intill about half way through flower. Then my girls started to do as you discribed in your over fert section. I though it was spidermites I flushed as discribed I hope it works. Basically I have 6 girls under 1000mh in soil mix I've used outside for years. I've aways used fox farms fert. no problems. But I went to a grow shop and they suggested I try bud blaster in conguction with my norm flower fert. I gave as dirrected, and was burning my girls ...


Anything to make a buck. I'd ask for my money back and give the guy a knuckle sandwich.

Good luck,
UB


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 27, 2009)

MoppinSauce said:


> They are recovering it seems now and most are 12 inches under 18-6. Do you think I should wait a bit until they can spread their roots a bit before flowering or will the 16ounces of roots they currently have suffice for the beginning of bloom and additional synthetic bloom nutes ie Tiger Bloom and Open Sesame? ....


A couple of thoughts one of which I just emphasized in another thread:

1. Stop concentrating on flower production people and only concentrate on root and foliage production and maintaining its health,

2. Once flowering commences root production almost comes to a halt as the plant will focus its "energy" on carrying forth the species. 

IOW, make sure you're comfortable with the root system (and foliage) before you go to flipping the switch. Your call.

UB


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## MoppinSauce (Mar 28, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> 2. Once flowering commences root production almost comes to a halt as the plant will focus its "energy" on carrying forth the species.
> 
> IOW, make sure you're comfortable with the root system (and foliage) before you go to flipping the switch. Your call.
> 
> UB


That's what I thought. I am going to give them at least another few days, although I did see roots coming out of the bottoms of some of the 2 gallon containers so I think they are coming around. I've got em on just water now and am very hesitant to add any nutes due to the soil content, but some of the growth is not as green as I'd like, possibly due to them being rootbound, etc. The ones I have in pro mix look better than the ones in FFOF, go figure, and I am nuting those with 100% recommended dose. Was thinking of introducing bloom nutes at 1/4 strength just to get them ready. Few different strains, not sure how I am going to handle the feedings as some will require more/less than others.

Thanks again for your suggestions, always appreciated.


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## Greeneyez77 (Mar 29, 2009)

I hate shops that try to push old stock onto you!!! I'm a newbie but not stupid! I think u gotta do alot of research online before buying any types of products and everytime I go to my local grow shop they always try to push some more expensive shit on me! or stuff that I just don't really need! I know its their jobs to sell but sometimes very annoying!!

Thanks for the Health guide Uncle Ben. Very Helpful.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 30, 2009)

Greeneyez77 said:


> I hate shops that try to push old stock onto you!!! I'm a newbie but not stupid! I think u gotta do alot of research online before buying any types of products and everytime I go to my local grow shop they always try to push some more expensive shit on me!


Yep, it's a big racket. Support Walmart before you support your local hydro shop, at least they sell bonafide, value added products.



> or stuff that I just don't really need! I know its their jobs to sell but sometimes very annoying!!


It's disgraceful. And their target is usually the noob with dreams in his eyes who gets taken in by all the hype. Nice to see you see thru the tawdry games.



> Thanks for the Health guide Uncle Ben. Very Helpful.


You're welcome!

Good luck,
UB


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## Tural (Mar 30, 2009)

is it bad if the plant is being overwatered even if its a seed still cause im doing an outdoor grow and we just had a bunch of rain and i wasnt expecting that much and now my grow area is flooded with like a few cm of water and they hadnt sprouted yet im pretty panicked that i killed my plant already the seeds had only been planted for a few days


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## cloneup (Apr 3, 2009)

Hey UB, quick question, should I (or could I) lower my ph while feeding to better my budding?, it seems my plants are "too green" at the end, example being more folage then bud, thanks


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## OneHit (Apr 5, 2009)

UB, you said flushing was a forum myth, think you can go into more detail about why? Seems like the majority believes in it


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 6, 2009)

cloneup said:


> Hey UB, quick question, should I (or could I) lower my ph while feeding to better my budding?, it seems my plants are "too green" at the end, example being more folage then bud, thanks


pH has nothing to do with your leaves's color. Green is good, foliage produces bud. Something else is at work here regarding your poor production.



OneHit said:


> UB, you said flushing was a forum myth, think you can go into more detail about why? Seems like the majority believes in it


Ah......prevailing attitudes and the never ending forum paradigms. If you can find any reason, botanically or chemically to "flush" before harvest, I'm all ears.

Good luck,
UB


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## dbizzo (Apr 6, 2009)

this thread is very informative for the novice grower. I'm having trouble w/ 6 /10 plants the botton 2 leaves are wilting and curling, the rest of the way up is a o k. drip water 3x daily 15 min. don't have ppm . ph always 5.5-6.5. Is this from overwatereing and/or too much nute?


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## OneHit (Apr 6, 2009)

Well, since im not sure behind the science of flushing, it sorta makes sense to me. You flush to cleanse out nutrients to make it a smoother smoke. But you have much more experience than me. You said you were a commerical farmer, is flushing only done with pot?


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 6, 2009)

OneHit said:


> You said you were a commerical farmer, is flushing only done with pot?


Ask Mexican or Colombian growers if they "flush".

A plant is not a car radiator that can be opened up or closed down.


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## Big Rip (Apr 12, 2009)

Hi UB,

I am in the 12th week of my first grow, still veging. I am growing in a cabinet 3'x4' by 3 1/2' tall. I have 8 27 watt CFL's at 5500k, and 4 26watt CFL's at 2700k, 2"-6" above the plants. I also have 6 20wat tube flouro on the surrounding walls. I use a 20/4 light cycle for veg now. The interrior of the cabinet is painted white, it also has a 4" exhaust duct.


I started with MG soil, but switched to Kellog (I hate this stuff) when I repotted 6weeks ago, no damage to root balls. I have both over and under watered (mostly due to the Kellog soil), now I pick up each 10" pot every day if it is light I water, if heavy no water. 

I also had what I think was a nute def. that showed a week after the transplanting. Yellow tips and edges to the leaves. I held off adding nutes believing the "Their weeds. They will grow with just light dirt and water." theory. I waited and watched for a week thinking it might have been stress from the transplanting. Things did not get better. I did not use the MG soil for the bigger pots because of what I read on this site, I should have kept the MG soil. I have started using Shultz's plant food 10-15-10 at half recomended does once per week, three weeks ago. The new growth is looking better now and the most damaged leaves are begining to turn yellow and drop, but the new ones are green. I have one plant that the leaves are green but they have a warped or twisted/wrinkly shape. 

Note: I have not "flushed" my pots to date.

Am I facing another problem or do you think patience is needed?


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 12, 2009)

Big Rip said:


> Hi UB,
> 
> I am in the 12th week of my first grow, still veging.


Huh?



> Am I facing another problem or do you think patience is needed?


I think you need to take a course in Botany 101. Grow some tomatoes, indoor plants, etc.

Good luck,
Tio


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## Big Rip (Apr 13, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Huh?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It appears my ignorance and lack of education have annoyed you. I am sorry to have sounded so clueless that I am not worth more than a snappish response.

Too bad really up until this it seemed like you might help me, you seemed nice and approachable, Guess not.

I will continue to grow and see if I can find some success with out your advice.

I don't need luck, I work hard!kiss-ass


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 13, 2009)

Big Rip said:


> It appears my ignorance and lack of education have annoyed you.


In a sense, yes. I'm not here to teach basic plant culture. That is something you learn on your own by growing other plant material before you try your hand at pot. BTW, this thread is about plant moisture stress. Having said that, my comments.......

For starts, CFL's suck, so do cabinets.

You don't give a plant a high P food if you're trying to encourage foliage production....reason for the lower leaf drop. You have a N deficiency.

Anyone that is still vegging after 12 weeks should consider another plan. How big are those plants anyway? If they're not 18" tall or better, something BASICALLY is wrong and it's not an issue of "patience". After 3 - 4 weeks from the seed popping, I'm ready to flower, and, the plants finish around 42" or more.

Good luck,
UB


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## ol man (Apr 14, 2009)

Is it a good idea to actually completely saturate vegging plants in water once every other day? My room temp stays around 80-85f. Will this level of soil saturation draw insects or mold over time, or should i just make sure that the temperature, is at a level that will promote a good level of evaporation. I also fluff/turn/till the soil regularly, so that the wettest part of the soil goes to the top. Is this a good technique or will it produce problems for me in the end?


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## tylerstoner101 (Apr 14, 2009)

those symptoms u said is kinda like mine but (at the bottom of my plant my leafes are curling and look like there burning and dry but the top of my plant is nice and perfect leaves are fine and green not droping or perking) if i was burning them wouldnt the tops burn first please help me and tell me wh y itrs doing this


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## lillypad (Apr 15, 2009)

Hey Uncle Ben, 
Can you helpe w/ this? Switched to flower 10 days ago, noticed this about 5 days ago. I read your post, but I can't come to a conclusion. The only things I can think of is that the temps did go up to 83 degress one day, or that my night humidity is about 70%, but I'm working on that (it has always been that high, never had a problem before though).

Strain: DP blueberry
Light: 2 1000watt hps
Temps: usually about 76-78
System: ebb & flow, pots w/ hydroton & rockwool
Feed: Lucas formula, 3x/day, 1/4 strength Koolbloom

Thanks a bunch!


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## tylerstoner101 (Apr 15, 2009)

uncle ben i dont use fertz all natral.i was wondering this is my set up 
i have four plants in 5 gal buckets
2 400w hps
3 rotating fans
my plants are in a basement and i hade a water heater problem and theres a little water on the floor but it has increased my moister in the room to 60% - 70% my temps at 70 - 78
my plants are in the 3rd week of buding 
1 4" 200 CFM CanFAN and Can FILTER Combo (http://www.canadianwholesalehydroponics.com/products.cfm?cat_id=97&show_products=1&catpage=2)
why is only the bottom of my leaves dry and curling. my top is nice and green and perfect wat should i do?


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 15, 2009)

lillypad said:


> Hey Uncle Ben,
> Can you helpe w/ this? Switched to flower 10 days ago, noticed this about 5 days ago. I read your post, but I can't come to a conclusion. The only things I can think of is that the temps did go up to 83 degress one day, or that my night humidity is about 70%, but I'm working on that (it has always been that high, never had a problem before though).
> 
> Strain: DP blueberry
> ...


What's the NPK of KoolBloom?


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## lillypad (Apr 16, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> What's the NPK of KoolBloom?


 
uncle ben,
koolbloom: 0-10-10
thanks,
lillypad


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 16, 2009)

lillypad said:


> uncle ben,
> koolbloom: 0-10-10
> thanks,
> lillypad


That's what I thought. You can't grow decent plants without the most important macro, N.


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## lillypad (Apr 20, 2009)

Sorry for the delay, computer down. I have GH Micro, grow & bloom. I don't use the grow but I am going to start for the N. Thanks a lot!


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## cloneup (Apr 20, 2009)

hey UB, i hope you can help cause i sure am stumped on this one, i am growing a bubblegum strain that came from a 10 year old mom 2 years ago, the guy that i WAS growing with, never mothered off that plant and just the cloned from the veg box every crop, buds have always been huge and solid, now, i have had this problem with my last 3 crops of more leaf then bud, on this crop right now, 3 weeks in, they did have lots of white hair, until yesterday (3weeks) when now they are starting to produce leaf out of the bud, i am stumped on this, i asked a long time grower from my area about it, and he's stumped, could this be degeneration?

p.s. happy 4-20


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 20, 2009)

cloneup said:


> hey UB, i hope you can help cause i sure am stumped on this one, i am growing a bubblegum strain that came from a 10 year old mom 2 years ago, the guy that i WAS growing with, never mothered off that plant and just the cloned from the veg box every crop, buds have always been huge and solid, now, i have had this problem with my last 3 crops of more leaf then bud, on this crop right now, 3 weeks in, they did have lots of white hair, until yesterday (3weeks) when now they are starting to produce leaf out of the bud, i am stumped on this, i asked a long time grower from my area about it, and he's stumped, could this be degeneration?
> 
> p.s. happy 4-20


I'm not sure what the issue is. The amount of bud is directly proportionate to the amount of leaves. 

Happy 420!


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## cloneup (Apr 20, 2009)

i let my last ones go 9 weeks and gave them unbelievable amounts of P&K, with still the same result, fluffy leaf bud


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## greenthumb111 (Apr 26, 2009)

Hola Uncle Ben

I just took these pics of my plants. The old fan leaves are fine but the tops are cupping and twisting. This freaked me out so I stopped watering thinking the plants were overwatered. The moisture in the pot was a little low though. What is wierd is that the twisting is only occurring on the plants in the center of the room under the 1000w lights. The heat is not the cause as the light is almost 2.5 ft above them and is not hot to the hand at canopy level. 

This is the first time this has happened. Last grow went off without a hitch, same strain same light setup watering schedule etc.

My first guess is underwatering induced by panic from fear of overwatering since it is only occurring in the newer leaves and some of the bigger newer leaves are a little cupy. Wasnt sure about the twisting though. Any thoughts and help is appreciated?


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## brsweet (Apr 26, 2009)

Hey Uncle Ben,

I have a question. I'm finishing up my first grow right now - coming along pretty darn well (should be done in 4 weeks) and I wanted to start my new grow (super silver haze) right now because I need to flower the plant by june and harvest by the end of august, due to moving.

I have my current plant under a 400w HPS lamp. I also own a MH bulb, but only have one ballast and one grow room.

My question is - Can I germinate my new plant and begin growing it under my HPS lamp on the 12/12 cycle alongside my flowering plant, or will this create problems? I also own a few flourecents, but I would like to veg my new guy under a solid lighting setup. - ...Could I switch the bulb back to MH and continue the 12/12? I'm stuck with how to go about this...

Any suggestions for what to do?

Thanks a ton.


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 27, 2009)

greenthumb111 said:


> Hola Uncle Ben
> 
> I just took these pics of my plants. The old fan leaves are fine but the tops are cupping and twisting. This freaked me out so I stopped watering thinking the plants were overwatered.


Hola! Plants look great all in all. Most likely what you've created is dry spots or channels such that the soil is no longer capable of holding moisture, it's an ion thingie. I have found over the years that there is no way I can overwater my plants. Why? Because they have a large enough root system and abundant foliage such that they quickly wick off moisture. The more the foliage, the less chance of EVER overwatering due to the capillary action (negative water turgor) and leaf transpiration. Having said that, you may want to rotate plants in your garden. Overwatering is not the issue, lack of aeration at the root zone is.



> The moisture in the pot was a little low though. What is wierd is that the twisting is only occurring on the plants in the center of the room under the 1000w lights. The heat is not the cause as the light is almost 2.5 ft above them and is not hot to the hand at canopy level.


For starts, heat on the back of the hand is a poor way to gauge anything, it surely doesn't gauge the amount of light a plant is and _should be_ receiving. Like I said, perhaps those plants in the center can't take the heat and/or light and should be rotated out. Increase your watering frequency too.

BTW, you can restore the soil's moisture retention properties by watering from the bottom up. The addition of a squirt of Ivory liquid dish soap into a tub of water will as a surfactant. Set the plant in a tub with sides higher than the pot, run water into the tub, not the pot, and let it sit there for about 10 minutes.

Good luck,
UB


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 27, 2009)

brsweet said:


> Hey Uncle Ben,
> 
> I have a question. I'm finishing up my first grow right now - coming along pretty darn well (should be done in 4 weeks) and I wanted to start my new grow (super silver haze) right now because I need to flower the plant by june and harvest by the end of august, due to moving.
> 
> ...


It depends on genetics and other factors, all you can do is try. Me, I'd wait until after I moved...... but then again you and me have different objectives. I do 20/4 for veg and get my best foliage out of that photoperiod.



> I also own a few flourecents, but I would like to veg my new guy under a solid lighting setup. - ...Could I switch the bulb back to MH and continue the 12/12? I'm stuck with how to go about this...
> 
> Any suggestions for what to do?
> 
> Thanks a ton.


You can flip any way you want _as long as _you don't stress the plants by going from a low f.c. to a high one. That will bleach out chlorophyll - not good. If it was my garden, I'd choose the best, most convenient plan regarding light installation, veg your new plants with the flowering ones, pull the them out just before lights-off and place them in some kind of light to simulate long days/short nights. You can do it with normal room lighting, west window, take 'em out to the patio for a sunbath, etc. Contrary to popular belief, HPS is great for vegging, it has plenty of the blue spectrum. I've done the experiments. You don't need to switch to different HID's.

Have fun!


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## greenthumb111 (Apr 27, 2009)

[For starts, heat on the back of the hand is a poor way to gauge anything, it surely doesn't gauge the amount of light a plant is and _should be_ receiving. Like I said, perhaps those plants in the center can't take the heat and/or light and should be rotated out. Increase your watering frequency too.]

THx for the response UB. I watered them and this AM they were perked back up. Whew! Thx again


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## Lebrish151 (Apr 27, 2009)

Hey Ben, 

Thanks for the post, good stuff. I have some cupping and tip growing upwards on some plants, not too appealing, but they are my babies. Their medium is rock wool cubes in a deep water culture with a constant drip feed from a Rain-Bird drip emitter, works great. Saw a little algae build-up on some nozzles but cleaned them off. I'm at 800 ppm right now according to my math using Advanced Nutrients, really amazing stuff. I worried about the heat levels off my HPS used for veg (cant afford anything else rite now). Its at 18 inches in distance from the tops now, and seems to be OK. I noticed a few spots on the leaves, very minimal, looks like I fed them a little too much this round (only 3 weeks in). My pH is maintained constantly at 6.0. The roots look fantastic, started them off with GH's Instant Karma. 

I want to make sure I am doing the right things before I consider doing something wrong. Obviously we want the healthiest appearance possible and the slight curning on the first wide set of leaves and some on the 2nd sets. Any advice as to what I can to to prevent or stop anything further from happening? I worry about algae and what it can do, but my retailer said I will get algae no matter what I do, I just have to minimalize it. 

THanks


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 27, 2009)

Great!

Love the avatar lol.


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## Nuggles (Apr 28, 2009)

Great thread helped me a lot with some issues I was having with some babies. Thanks...I sure hope they pull through


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## RollinBlunt (Apr 28, 2009)

wow, i think some one should write a book. Can call it, "Uncle Bens grow guide".


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## Lebrish151 (Apr 30, 2009)

RollinBlunt said:


> wow, i think some one should write a book. Can call it, "Uncle Bens grow guide".


Yeah Ben, you got some good stuff


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## Dayzt (Apr 30, 2009)

Thanks for the info!


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## Uncle Ben (May 1, 2009)

Glad to be of help!

Ben


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## Majestic Pagent (May 1, 2009)

Hi Ub, I need the benefit of your xperience!
I started a number of plants from seed about a month ago and they have been exhibiting pretty bad leaf burn for the last couple of weeks. they are about 12" below a 250w bank of florescents and they are potted in specialist compost (which has a 5% base fertiliser). All of them have some leaf burn, and on some of them the foliage is turning yellow! The temperature is 20 degrees c (I have a thermostat regulating the exhaust fan) They are in 2 litre pots, and the largest is about 4" high. I have not been feeding them.
From what you were saying earlier in the thread, it sounds like I might be giving them too much light, but this is my first time round so I'm not too confident in my own diagnosis. What do you think?
Many thanks


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## Uncle Ben (May 1, 2009)

Majestic Pagent said:


> Hi Ub, I need the benefit of your xperience!
> I started a number of plants from seed about a month ago and they have been exhibiting pretty bad leaf burn for the last couple of weeks. they are about 12" below a 250w bank of florescents and they are potted in specialist compost (which has a 5% base fertiliser). All of them have some leaf burn, and on some of them the foliage is turning yellow! The temperature is 20 degrees c (I have a thermostat regulating the exhaust fan) They are in 2 litre pots, and the largest is about 4" high. I have not been feeding them.
> From what you were saying earlier in the thread, it sounds like I might be giving them too much light, but this is my first time round so I'm not too confident in my own diagnosis. What do you think?
> Many thanks


Sounds like a watering issue. Is the soil too hot?


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## greengold69 (May 3, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Still standing after all these years.  If there was a toxicity issue, my plants would have taken the hit first. Because of the application and plant's root tip response, copper ions are not translocated thru the plant.
> 
> Cut 'em. I'll repeat what I've recommended for years - when you upcan pop the rootball out and using a razor or very sharp knife score the roots vertically. IOW, starting at the top of the rootball, plunge the razor about 1/2" deep and draw down to the bottom making sure you cut thru the roots at the bottom. Rotate the ball so that you do this about 4 times around the perimeter of the rootball.
> 
> ...


when you say up-can, would that be the same thing as when i take my plants out of the pot. Then taking the blade and cutting the root system apart? If im wrong can you help.?


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## Uncle Ben (May 3, 2009)

greengold69 said:


> when you say up-can, would that be the same thing as when i take my plants out of the pot. Then taking the blade and cutting the root system apart? If im wrong can you help.?


"upcan" as in transplant to a larger pot, can. Don't cut the root system apart, only score the roots doing the spin out thingie.


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## Majestic Pagent (May 5, 2009)

It may be too hot - I'll test it. Will put some pics up next time I get to the internet - they really aren't doing brilliantly at the moment. Its a steep learning curve to be sure... Thanks UB


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## HERBAL ADDICT (May 5, 2009)

i put a thread on rollitup to help people,, i found all the info on another site,, people then winged at me for it, although it did help alot ov people on here

ive read the plant moisture stress article lots of times on all different sites a long time ago,,, so i was just wondering if any one winged at u for posting the plant moisture stress article on rollitup UB?


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## OneHit (May 5, 2009)

UB, what do you mean, score the roots? Cut a little bit?


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## Crownmesire (May 5, 2009)

+ Rep def a help


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## Majestic Pagent (May 6, 2009)

They are still exhibiting quite bad leaf burn, are growing slowly, and have yellow patches on their leaves. The soil is 25 degrees C. I am keeping the it constantly damp - should I be leaving them to dry out a bit more between waterings? Also, my lights are on 24 hours - I have had mixed opinions as to wether this is a good thing or not.... There are a number of varieties in the pics - some of them are doing much better than others. One set of them are getting fed, and one set are just getting watered, but no great difference is emerging between them.
I'm stumped - any light you could throw on my problem would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


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## Uncle Ben (May 6, 2009)

HERBAL ADDICT said:


> i put a thread on rollitup to help people,, i found all the info on another site,, people then winged at me for it, although it did help alot ov people on here
> 
> ive read the plant moisture stress article lots of times on all different sites a long time ago,,, so i was just wondering if any one winged at u for posting the plant moisture stress article on rollitup UB?


What do you mean by "winged"? I've had plenty of my ditties plagarized without giving me due credit, if that's what you mean.



OneHit said:


> UB, what do you mean, score the roots? Cut a little bit?


Cut vertical slices 1/2" deep, about 4 around the rootball when you pop it out to upcan it.



Majestic Pagent said:


> They are still exhibiting quite bad leaf burn, are growing slowly, and have yellow patches on their leaves. The soil is 25 degrees C. I am keeping the it constantly damp


Looking at the pot size which is oversized IMO, that is probably not a good thing. Once you invite root rot due to anerobic conditions, it's usually impossible to restore proper plant health.



> - should I be leaving them to dry out a bit more between waterings?


Yeah, but not to the point of being bone dry.



> Also, my lights are on 24 hours - I have had mixed opinions as to wether this is a good thing or not....


Plants need a rest but it's all relative to the amount of photons collected by the leaves over a normal day. Plants like less photons over a longer period of time than being photon blasted over a shorter period of time. Same with plant food or any other cultural ditty.

You just need to find a balance.

Good luck,
UB


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## HERBAL ADDICT (May 7, 2009)

by winge i mean they complain at me if they have seen the article somewhere else.. but if it helps say 400 out ov 500 that read it then its worth me doing it,, but the other 100 that had read it b4 just complain about it..

dickheads man


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## Majestic Pagent (May 7, 2009)

ok, thanks for your work and your ditties UB. Looks like everyone is catching on to you as a source of advice! Could I just ask you one last question to clarify pls - do those plants look like they're suffering from moisture stress or some sort of nutrient deficiency/excess?


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## Uncle Ben (May 7, 2009)

Majestic Pagent said:


> ok, thanks for your work and your ditties UB. Looks like everyone is catching on to you as a source of advice! Could I just ask you one last question to clarify pls - do those plants look like they're suffering from moisture stress or some sort of nutrient deficiency/excess?


You've got some curling and the start of necrosis going on with the lower leaves. Something is out of balance.

Good luck,
UB


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## HERBAL ADDICT (May 12, 2009)

hey uncle ben,, got plant problems and its something i havent had b4,,

some/quite a few of my leafs have cupped upwards and and even more have cupped downwards, like claws,,
and instead ov nice dark green leafs im starting to grow paler green leafs,

does this sound like ph problem? 

i cant test the runoff as they dont need watering for a good few days yet,,

or if any one else here has had claw leaf and knows the cause i would really like some info,, and +++rep info,,

only thing i think could be a problem appart from ph is the humidity during dark houres is gettin to 89% rh,, is this really bad? what probs cud that cause,,

help help help lol....


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## Uncle Ben (May 12, 2009)

HERBAL ADDICT said:


> hey uncle ben,, got plant problems and its something i havent had b4,,
> 
> some/quite a few of my leafs have cupped upwards and and even more have cupped downwards, like claws,,
> and instead ov nice dark green leafs im starting to grow paler green leafs,
> ...


No. 



> or if any one else here has had claw leaf and knows the cause i would really like some info,, and +++rep info,,


Did you read page one of this thread?


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## HERBAL ADDICT (May 13, 2009)

yea red it,, only it mentions leaf cupping and margin rolling,nute burn+ph problems,

this isnt normal leaf cupping like ive seen before,, its like leafs collapsing into claws and its only 2 plants that are doing it

ive got no nute burn and im using full strength bio canna, ph runoff is 6.3 , ph going in is 6.8,, soil is canna terra pro+, ph 5.5/6.5 says on the bag

u see why im confused, 

any way i done a full flush lastnight ,like 50 litres threw 4gal pots then give them fresh full strength nutes,, plants look better today,,

cud it ov been a build up of salts or stuff that caused the claws? ive seen toxic salt build ups cause faint patterns on leafs but never claw leafs

im only watering/feeding once a week.


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## punit (May 13, 2009)

I have a quick question! What will cause a plant(1.5wks) to just suddenly lay flat on the soil? Is that death? What will cause that?


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## petey pete (May 13, 2009)

alright lads bit of a noob here. got this yellowing through most of the plants leafs and a bit if red stem cominin through, its not vary prominent yet but its only been doin this for about 5-6 days. Everywhere i read deficiency this, too much of that will lock stuff out. Is there any general thing i can do to help other than flushing. Its in coco soil feeding ionic coco bloom, temp and humidity are bang on. the plants quite old being a cutting and it bubble gum, any ideas would be much appreciated. 
​


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## OneHit (May 14, 2009)

UB, What do you think is wrong with this plant? Ive treated it the same as all my others, but this is the only one showing a problem. It doesnt look like nute burn to me...


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## teflonkush (May 14, 2009)

What type of medium? SOIL

What brand and type of soil? FOX FARMS OCEAN FOREST

Indoors or outdoors?INDOOR 

What strain? 2x white widow 2x querkle and 2x purple kush 

How old are the plants? ROOTED CUTTINGS FROM MMJC

What type of lights and how many watts? 2X 48" 40W FLURO COOL WHITE AND DAYTIME 

How far from the lights? 4 1/2"

What, how much and when was it fed? WATER THREE CAPS FULL SCARED TO DO ANYTHING ELSE

What is the medium/runoff pH and PPM if in hydro? N/A

What are the temps and humidity in the room? 78 DEGREES F HUMIDITY IS AT 70%

What size pots? 4 CLEAR CUPS IS ALL I HAD AND 2

Any bugs? Look real close. NO BUGS (BUT I ALSO HAVE NO MAGNAFING GLASS) NONE THAT I CAN SEE.

Any other pertinent info?
6 little girls were dropped of at my house today with no warning i was completely unprepared. i ripped the garage lights out of the celing (4ft flouros) and sourced a couple old sockets and reflectors from my old reptile tanks, my friend who is not able to keep up with the plants bought them from a mmjc here in cali he has only been feeding water and superthrive (i dont know why) but that was it when i got them the dirt was saturated. i jumped up as quick as i could go, and went to the local hydro store bought ff ocean forest soil. And i potted 2plants in only two pots i had. one plant had what looks like spiderwebs in the cup. when i transfered to pot the pot leaves are curling and yellowing please help me bring these girls back two health i dont know what to do to save them

my grow space is a 4' length x 4' Wide x 8' height
i have little money until next friday but i don't want these girls to die. Is there any thing i can do? i will have about 100-200 bucks for them if anybody can help me figure out what i need (besides a miracle) please help


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## Uncle Ben (May 14, 2009)

OneHit said:


> UB, What do you think is wrong with this plant? Ive treated it the same as all my others, but this is the only one showing a problem. It doesnt look like nute burn to me...


Looks like a leafset is on its way out. May be bad, may not be. I'd pop it out of its pot to check out the health of the root system if I was you.

teflonkush, get those lights right down on the foliage, like 1" away or less. Keep fans gently blowing across the leaves. Opaque pots, not clear.

UB


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## OneHit (May 14, 2009)

Im pretty sure its not just a leaf thats going out, that leaf was near the top, and Ive never lost a fan leaf from one of the top colas. That and the plant looks sick. Heres additional pics


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## Uncle Ben (May 15, 2009)

OneHit said:


> Im pretty sure its not just a leaf thats going out, that leaf was near the top, and Ive never lost a fan leaf from one of the top colas. That and the plant looks sick. Heres additional pics


Could be spider mites. Check the underside of the leaves with a loupe.

What's the NPK of food you're giving it, how much and how often?

Tio


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## OneHit (May 15, 2009)

I took a 60x microscope to it, didnt see any red dots like spidermites. My other plants right next to it has been looking fine, no damage on them that I can see. They have been like this and getting progressivly worse for the past 5 days or so. Didnt think it would get worse 

As for the fertz, Im using foxfarms stuff. Big Blooms .01-.3-.7 and Tigerbloom 2-8-4. Ive been feeding tigerbloom every other feeding, and big bloom every feeding at half strength. I thoguht it could be nute burn, but it doesnt look like the ones in the paint guide thread


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## orzz (May 15, 2009)

Uncle Ben have you heard of this product? I saw an ad for one today.
ICE BOX Water-Cooled Heat Exchanger


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## Uncle Ben (May 16, 2009)

OneHit said:


> I took a 60x microscope to it, didnt see any red dots like spidermites. My other plants right next to it has been looking fine, no damage on them that I can see. They have been like this and getting progressivly worse for the past 5 days or so. Didnt think it would get worse
> 
> As for the fertz, Im using foxfarms stuff. Big Blooms .01-.3-.7 and Tigerbloom 2-8-4. Ive been feeding tigerbloom every other feeding, and big bloom every feeding at half strength. I thoguht it could be nute burn, but it doesnt look like the ones in the paint guide thread


There's your problem, not enough N. Most of these manufacturers all do the same thing, screw up the NPK values. Hell, most shouldn't be in this biz as they don't know what in the hell they're doing, or don't care.

Also, when you have yellowing at the top it's usually due to a lack of micros, UNLESS, you're giving the plant too much light and bleaching out the chlorophyll.

Not familiar with that product orzz. Be sure to read reviews on it before sinking your money. If it's sold thru Amazon.com, that's a great resource for customer reviews.

Good luck,
UB


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## OneHit (May 16, 2009)

ALright, I hit them with a dose of my veg nutes, its 6-4-4. Now it wouldnt turn the leaves back green right? Its permanatly damaged? But would just prevent it from happening in the future?

Its not light bleaching, Ive had it happen on some of my other plants before, so I know what that looks like. These tops arnt as close to the light as the ones that did get affected by light bleaching


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## casper23 (May 16, 2009)

Uncle Ben thanks for all the wisdom here. you have shinned light on a first time growers problems... mush respect.


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## sammygee (May 17, 2009)

GoldenGraham84 said:


> you should mention something about leaf curling/cupping due to the plant being rootbound.


 
wot does rootbound mean?? my leafs r curling on edges any advice? tanx.x


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## Uncle Ben (May 17, 2009)

OneHit said:


> ALright, I hit them with a dose of my veg nutes, its 6-4-4. Now it wouldnt turn the leaves back green right?


It might. Usually an "aw shit" drill with cannabis is here to stay. Look at the new growth for feedback to see if you're on the right track.

Good luck,
UB


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## OneHit (May 26, 2009)

Hi UB, the plants that I posted up in the last page still has a problem, Its post 235. Its gotten a bit worse, with some of the newer growth being affected. You said either mites or nitrogen def, but it cant be spider mites because my other plants have not been affected. I have it a extra dose of veg nutes also, its 6-4-4, and I dont see an improvement. I havnt done anything differently with this one than with my other ones that are coming out well. Any other ideas? Thanks


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## Uncle Ben (May 27, 2009)

OneHit, as you know there are all kinds of cultural reasons why your plant is showing stress - nutritional, watering, temps, insect pressures, etc. It's anyone's guess who does not have the privilege of observing your practices on a day to day basis.

Another thought.....many times when there is a problem with the top it's because there is a problem with the bottom, the roots. I'd pop that problem child out and check on the health of the rootball. It won't hurt or shock the plant at all. Just slide it back in.

Casper23, glad you enjoy the thread.

Later......


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## OneHit (May 27, 2009)

UB, I took a closer look at the soil, and they def have bugs in them. They are tiny white oval shaped things, very very small. Could this be it?
My other plant with no problems also has bugs in them, but they are little white worm looking things, a little bit bigger, but very small also


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## Uncle Ben (May 28, 2009)

OneHit said:


> UB, I took a closer look at the soil, and they def have bugs in them. They are tiny white oval shaped things, very very small. Could this be it?
> My other plant with no problems also has bugs in them, but they are little white worm looking things, a little bit bigger, but very small also


Could very well be, most likely fungus gnat larvae, perhaps Springtails which will jump when you water. Did you pop the plant out and inspect the rootball? Just do it. Look for insect damage, soil structure (is it in a state of decay). Smell the rootball, it should have a fresh earthy smell, not a sour or off smell like your grandma's marching boots. The roots should be white or beige in color.


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## BUDGI (May 30, 2009)

I live in NV humidity is very low added a humidifier
trying to keep humidity around 55% I hope this helps to keep the girls from drying out just added it today I'll keep updating progress


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## RollinBlunt (Jun 1, 2009)

Omg I love this site! may have saved the day!kiss-ass


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## i.NeeD.A.LiGhTeR (Jun 1, 2009)

Hopefully someone can help me.... I went to check on my plants that went outside alittle over a week ago, when I moved them outside I switched the cups they were in(Not important why) and because im a retard and was moving to fast I didn't poke holes in the bottoms! . They have been in Beer Pong cups since seed for about 3 weeks now total, they were under CFLS for the first 2. 
So my question is alittle over 1 week in a beer pong cup with it raining every other day do they most likely have rootrot? I haven't watered them since they went out but its rained ALOT and I seen they had been looking overwatered lately. If they have root rot what can I do to fix it if anything? I poked holes in the bottoms and im going to let them dry out good before I water, can they pull through? Other than the dropping leaves and stunted growth they look healthy, they might have just been overwatered because its been nice and hot out when its not raining so the soil may not have been super soaked all the time. Any help, please.


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 2, 2009)

i.NeeD.A.LiGhTeR said:


> Hopefully someone can help me.... I went to check on my plants that went outside alittle over a week ago, when I moved them outside I switched the cups they were in(Not important why) and because im a retard and was moving to fast I didn't poke holes in the bottoms! . They have been in Beer Pong cups since seed for about 3 weeks now total, they were under CFLS for the first 2.


You will most likely lose them due to root rot and the fact that they weren't slowly acclimated to sunlight. Roots gotta have air amigo.

Good luck,
UB


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## i.NeeD.A.LiGhTeR (Jun 2, 2009)

Alright no biggie really, its only the 2 out of 50. But I don't think not hardening them up to the outdoors really hurts them, after 2-3 weeks indoors I put them straight outside and they always show good growth over the first few days... never had a problem with that. But with the root rot, once the soil dries out can I tip the cup upside down and slide the root ball out and check for it? I've never seen it before... Does it look like moldy roots or something?


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## ztult (Jun 2, 2009)

my girl is wilting and getting worse everyday. I am not sure what to do. As the pics show, the fan leaves are drooping downward. the leave tips around the buds are folding up and in. I do not know what to do next. Some of the posts I have read said something about leaching but I have no idea how to do that without killing the plant. She is in a 3 gal bag and the bottom is still very moist to wet but the top 4-6 inches are completly dry.


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 2, 2009)

i.NeeD.A.LiGhTeR said:


> Alright no biggie really, its only the 2 out of 50. But I don't think not hardening them up to the outdoors really hurts them, after 2-3 weeks indoors I put them straight outside and they always show good growth over the first few days... never had a problem with that. But with the root rot, once the soil dries out can I tip the cup upside down and slide the root ball out and check for it? I've never seen it before... Does it look like moldy roots or something?


Pop the rootball out. Roots should look white to beige with good turgor, not dark brown and limp.


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## i.NeeD.A.LiGhTeR (Jun 2, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Pop the rootball out. Roots should look white to beige with good turgor, not dark brown and limp.


Thanks for the reply +Rep. I'll wait to the soil dries out before I check, thanks again.


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 3, 2009)

i.NeeD.A.LiGhTeR said:


> Thanks for the reply +Rep. I'll wait to the soil dries out before I check, thanks again.


NP. Just a thought, a wet (not soggy) rootball comes out easier and with less chance to fall apart.

UB


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## ashleynewth (Jun 9, 2009)

hey ub. i've got a problem with a few of my plants and was hoping u could diagnose it for me. i suffered root rot last grow. i sterilized and started over from seed. i'm growing in pots with perlite with a pump feeding them twice a day. i regularly check ph and nutes. temps are 15c-26c. reservoir temp was 17c but i've just (today) installed heaters to keep it around 22c. humidity varies from 25-65%. heaps of fresh air. lights about 50cm from canopy. i've been using same nutes as always but started using dr hornbys big bud and hygrozime this grow. i am using cooltubes for the first time which has cooled the room considerably. outside temps have been very cold lately. i had a big bud plant with a few curled under shade leaves. suddenly one day all the leaves were cupped. i hacked it because i found a few suspicious looking balls on it earlier. suddenly a few other plants (all different strains) have begun doing the same thing. these plants seem to be growing more vertical than the others. the buds aren't fattening or as smelly either. i've read up on ur causes of this problem (leaf curl) but i don't seem to have any of these causes. i use polycarbonate roof sheeting as my drainage tray. a mate suggested this may be breaking down and poisoning the plants. another mate (a plastic injection moulder) said this was improbable because its u.v stabilised. its stressing me out. i've been growing for many years without a problem suddenly i cant seem to get it right. i am hoping it is just cold reservoir temps and i've already fixed the problem. please help. i've attached photos of healthy and affected plants. i've posted in this thread because moisture stress seems like the most common cause. cheers


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 9, 2009)

ashleynewth said:


> hey ub. i've got a problem with a few of my plants and was hoping u could diagnose it for me. i suffered root rot last grow. i sterilized and started over from seed. i'm growing in pots with perlite with a pump feeding them twice a day. i regularly check ph and nutes. temps are 15c-26c. reservoir temp was 17c but i've just (today) installed heaters to keep it around 22c. humidity varies from 25-65%. heaps of fresh air. lights about 50cm from canopy. i've been using same nutes as always but started using dr hornbys big bud and hygrozime this grow. i am using cooltubes for the first time which has cooled the room considerably. outside temps have been very cold lately. i had a big bud plant with a few curled under shade leaves. suddenly one day all the leaves were cupped.


"Suddenly" means they reacted to some kind of change. Your call.



> i hacked it because i found a few suspicious looking balls on it earlier.


What kind of balls and where were they located?



> suddenly a few other plants (all different strains) have begun doing the same thing.


You must backtrack your steps and see what has changed. If ALL culture has remained the same then you may have insect or disease pressures.

I have never known polycarbonates to break down under your conditions.

Suspect - "but started using dr hornbys big bud and hygrozime this grow." At what rate, when, and what's the total NPK value of what you're giving your plants? I suspect your plants are reacting to a salts issue.

Good luck,
UB


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## OneHit (Jun 9, 2009)

UB, what do you use when your facing with a major bug infestation? Particlarly ones that feed on the roots and crawl around in the soil


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## questos (Jun 9, 2009)

hi uncle ben i have a problem with my plants they are 1 week in to flower and have suddenly started to curl under on some of the leaves not all of them, i suspect a have overfed them, what should i do next to get them back on track ? and also how often would u reccomend i feed them ? please help as its stressing me out i havnt had this problem before and am doin everything the same as last crops


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 10, 2009)

OneHit said:


> UB, what do you use when your facing with a major bug infestation? Particlarly ones that feed on the roots and crawl around in the soil


If harmful, like fungus gnats or perhaps Springtails, a drench of Orange oil or malathion works great.



questos said:


> hi uncle ben i have a problem with my plants they are 1 week in to flower and have suddenly started to curl under on some of the leaves not all of them, i suspect a have overfed them, what should i do next to get them back on track ? and also how often would u reccomend i feed them ? please help as its stressing me out i havnt had this problem before and am doin everything the same as last crops


Flush the pots if indeed you overfed. Feed them according to their size and vigor. Your call.

Good luck,
UB


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## riouxxx (Jun 11, 2009)

yo is normal for my seedlind to start loosing thier first round small leaves !!!!

it is three weeks old


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 11, 2009)

riouxxx said:


> yo is normal for my seedlind to start loosing thier first round small leaves !!!!
> 
> it is three weeks old


Those aren't leaves, they are food storage organs. The plant will drop them once the food reserves are depleted.


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## OneHit (Jun 11, 2009)

UB, I wasnt able to get the malathion yet, but I was able to get a 2.5% permethrin solution at the local nursery. I put 1.5 tbsp per gallon and fed this to my plants. I looked this morning, and I still see the little bugs crawling around in the soil.

Should I move up to the malathion solution drench? I also got the doktordoom's fogger, but I dont know if that will get into the soil either. What do you recommend?


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 11, 2009)

OneHit said:


> UB, I wasnt able to get the malathion yet, but I was able to get a 2.5% permethrin solution at the local nursery. I put 1.5 tbsp per gallon and fed this to my plants. I looked this morning, and I still see the little bugs crawling around in the soil.
> 
> Should I move up to the malathion solution drench? I also got the doktordoom's fogger, but I dont know if that will get into the soil either. What do you recommend?


First - identify the pest and decide on whether or not it is indeed harmful,

Two - if you're out on a kill mission, permethrins will do the job. You just have to follow the label. 


Three - I wouldn't have recommended malathion if I knew it was lame.

Ben


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## BIGBUDDZ (Jun 14, 2009)

How are your plants gettin on now? or are they harvested?


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## OneHit (Jun 15, 2009)

Alright, thanks for the help UB. Since I already have the permethin, Ill use this for a few more applications to see if it works before purchasing some malathion.
Im not that great at identifying the bugs, but I think there is multiple kinds. I think theres two kinds. I know there is fungus gnats because of the adults, so I know there are larvae. But then there are some tiny tiny bugs that jump also, so maybe those are springtails? Then I saw the description for mealybugs, and I think I have that too.


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 15, 2009)

OneHit said:


> Alright, thanks for the help UB. Since I already have the permethin, Ill use this for a few more applications to see if it works before purchasing some malathion.
> Im not that great at identifying the bugs, but I think there is multiple kinds. I think theres two kinds. I know there is fungus gnats because of the adults, so I know there are larvae. But then there are some tiny tiny bugs that jump also, so maybe those are springtails? Then I saw the description for mealybugs, and I think I have that too.


Just because you confirm you have soil bugs like springtails or fungus gnats doesn't necessarily mean they are doing any real damage. Fungus larvae are known to feed primarily on decaying organic material. You could have another problem going on. I'd pop a rootball out and have a look at the roots.

UB


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## OneHit (Jun 16, 2009)

The rootball doesnt look that bad, its not bright white like the freshest roots, but not brown and dead either.


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## Crownmesire (Jun 17, 2009)

Uncle Ben thanks for this write up, I appreciate the knowledge from exp growers such as yourself. I hope to pass on what I learn to others. Growing as a whole is a beautiful thing, you've helped a great deal.


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 17, 2009)

Crownmesire said:


> Uncle Ben thanks for this write up, I appreciate the knowledge from exp growers such as yourself. I hope to pass on what I learn to others. Growing as a whole is a beautiful thing, you've helped a great deal.


Thanks for the kind words! I have a draft of my tweaks, started about 6 months ago, still need to finish that one up.

Grow hard,
UB


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## Jras23 (Jun 17, 2009)

Quick question i have 3 small pots maybe half a gallon each with 3 plants that are about 15 days old in each. anyway they all are getting the same light and water but i do have one pot that is a little bit larger then the others and its holding my biggest plants. The leaves on these plants are starting to droop some and im not sure why the other plants look pretty good so far. 

are they getting bigger so i need to water them more?
am i over watering them i have seen the soil dry before but ounce or twice only in the biggest pot never in the smaller ones.
They are still young so i leave them outside on days when its sunny but when its rainy or cloudy days i put them under 2 100 watt lights and 1 65 watt, is that to much moving around do they need to stay in a stable condition?


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 18, 2009)

Jras23 said:


> Quick question i have 3 small pots maybe half a gallon each with 3 plants that are about 15 days old in each. anyway they all are getting the same light and water but i do have one pot that is a little bit larger then the others and its holding my biggest plants. The leaves on these plants are starting to droop some and im not sure why the other plants look pretty good so far.
> 
> are they getting bigger so i need to water them more?


If they are light when you lift them, then they need watering.



> They are still young so i leave them outside on days when its sunny but when its rainy or cloudy days i put them under 2 100 watt lights and 1 65 watt, is that to much moving around do they need to stay in a stable condition?


Not really. Best scenario is to put them outdoors under full sun and then bring them indoors under HID's to simulate a 20/4 photoperiod. They must be slowly acclimated first.


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## marijuanan (Jun 18, 2009)

my plants have been growing for a week and a half in small plasic pots. the leaves have started to curl downward so i transplanted. when i took them out of the small plasic i noticed the roots all scrambled along the bottom do you think theroots not having enough room is the reason the leaves are starting to curl downward? if pics are needed i might be able to get some on


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## joannadd (Jun 18, 2009)

hey can you help me as you seem to know what you are talking about and i havent a clue i am growing 1 violator kush in my bedroom closet it is now 2 weeks into flower and huge there is not much room left in the closset for it to grow anymore when i was checking it tonight just to give her some love i noticed the back leaves have loads of brown freckely spots on it oh by the way i am using hydro never used before , so it is mainly on the fan leaves 2 or 3 are effected , sorry i am shit at this plus female so havent a clue . i am using fero bloom east anglia region and was giving her 18 nuets and ph was at 5,8 , her last feed was 20 and 5,8 ph she is on 2 day plain water at the moment i am a bit worried about these spots they are just like freckels , can you explain to me in simple terms what this could be and how to resolve it as i dont want to lose another plant as 1 was dug up from my garden and robbed and need to keep this one healthy to pay my elec bill , i noticed this the other day but didnt really see the full extent, what can it be i have a 600 watt sodium and a tower fan in closet and a fan outside of closset but it is a very small space i would say 2 ft by 3ft height isnt an issue well it is going to be if she doesnt stop growing , plant looks healthy other wise i put her into flower at 2ft she was showing pre flower when she went over, i did spray her with water on a number of occassions, these leaves that are effected are half way down the plant so could it be because i had sprayed her when in veg and these are water burns ? oh i am also using 5ml of liquid oxegen in my feed ???????? she is now well over 5ft and only 2 weeks into flower when will she stop growing and start putting her energy into budding? i will take her out of that room tomorrow and just stand her in my bedroom under the light so she has plenty more room to grow , could this be condensation from leaves touching wall, my friend says it could be thrips but i cannot see any and to tell you the truth i dont really know what i am looking for. it does get pretty hot in there but i try to regulate the temp by opening windows as i cant get an exstractor fan in there as too small i thought violator kush was a small bushy plant not a humungus bloody tree i have 20 heads on it and all look brill buds are size of my little finger already . i cant remember if i used tap water to spray, but unlikley as i stand water every night, if i did could this be cloriform from water doing it arggggggghhhhh please help me thanks


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## jeffsyrov (Jun 19, 2009)

I would like to help you. Perhaps your tree spoiling cause of less watering so just water it properly


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## Katatawnic (Jun 20, 2009)

joannadd said:


> sorry i am shit at this plus female so havent a clue


*Wait, what?!* Being "clueless" has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with not having learned something. 

RE: spraying/misting while vegging, a good rule of thumb is to do this only when the lights first come on (unless they put out too much heat right away), and when they go off. And *not* during flowering, unless you "know" what you're doing. If you were misting during the veg cycle and are now two weeks into the flowering cycle, then I highly doubt there's any burn appearing from that now. That may not tell you what the problem is, but it can tell you what it isn't. 

I most often hear/read that the (majority of the) plant growth stops about four weeks into 12/12. I'm sure that's strain/environment dependant, though.

Wish I could help with the spots, but I haven't a clue -- I've not *yet* learned enough to diagnose.


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## Chumlie (Jun 23, 2009)

uncle ben I got problem that I have had before, I think it is slowly correcting but I'm not sure. I was wondering if the leaves slightly droop(none happy plant) and have little ridges down the leaf surface, wave like, if that was a sign of thirst. I will never use peat pots again. They dry out to fast.


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 24, 2009)

Chumlie said:


> uncle ben I got problem that I have had before, I think it is slowly correcting but I'm not sure. I was wondering if the leaves slightly droop(none happy plant) and have little ridges down the leaf surface, wave like, if that was a sign of thirst. I will never use peat pots again. They dry out to fast.


Sounds like a condition of moisture stress. Peat is a wonderful wick.  

It's OK to use peat pots to start in, just be sure that when you upcan that no peat is showing.

Good luck,
Ben


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## Chumlie (Jun 24, 2009)

Im not trying to sound dumb, but are you thinking its from over watering?


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 25, 2009)

Chumlie said:


> Im not trying to sound dumb, but are you thinking its from over watering?


Could be.

UB


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## Onegaes (Jun 25, 2009)

When I lived in the desert, my son came to visit and he found a seed in one of his buds. He gave it to me; I merely put it in my sandy garden and I swear, in prob. less than 2 weeks that plant was 4 feet tall. All I did was water it, No nutes, nada. It was a beautiful green, healthy as all get out. Time of year was spring. Unfortunately, I had a gopher that was digging holes all over my lawn, and one day I was standing in my kitchen, marvelling at the the plant from my window when suddenly it starts shaking, then dissapears into the ground. I couldn't believe it. Moral of my story?: don't stress; plant it and it will grow; keep gophers away, BTW: never saw the gopher again. It musta passed out for the summer. I'm not being glib but honestly this is a weed. Weeds are stroooong. Every gardner knows that. Meaning: they bounce back easily and survive all sorts of conditions if not too harsh (such as pothead gophers). I bet that gopher IS STILL passed out, enjoying his gopher dreams


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## Roseman (Jun 26, 2009)

Uncle Ben can help you, look here:

Leaf Curling

also read up on this:

Temps, Humidity


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 26, 2009)

Good story Onegaes! You're right. I've never seen so many people screw up growing such an easy to grow plant in my life. Ya might say they push them to death.


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## Roseman (Jun 26, 2009)

I've seen plants that were 4 or 5 feet tall, ran over by a four-wheeler, and tore up and squashed flat, and it continued to grow along the ground, like a vine. 
I've pulled up males growing outdoors in the woods,, and threw them far away, in a pile to come back in a few days and see it took root into the hard ground, just to stay alive. They are very hardy.


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## Chumlie (Jun 26, 2009)

my problem is the only soil mixes you can find, or I've found on here and other tutorials either have potting soils(foxfarms,promix,etc) that can not be bought in my location, or the rest of them are way to strong to start out in. This last soil mix I made was soiles with 5% worm castings, 10%was to strong. With my experience marijuana is a very tender plant. Right now it seems everything is alright.


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## lostcompass3 (Jun 30, 2009)

I was just wondering how often you suggest flushing my medium to get rid of excess salt build up. What steps are involved in flushing my soil? What is the best ph to have the water at when i am doing this?

thanks for the great post


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 30, 2009)

lostcompass3 said:


> I was just wondering how often you suggest flushing my medium to get rid of excess salt build up.


Depends on the amount of salts (plant food) you're giving them and your water source's quality. If you use little plant food and rainwater, not very often. If you're heavy handed on the salts and your water is hard, then perhaps every third fertilizing. Depends on the organics in your soil too. Your call.



> What steps are involved in flushing my soil?


Water until you get a good runoff from the drain holes.



> What is the best ph to have the water at when i am doing this?
> 
> thanks for the great post


Don't worry about it. Soil is a powerful buffer. The pH of your water source will have little to NO long term effect.


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## homegrow101 (Jun 30, 2009)

A question if I may can you please look at my attached pic and tell me if it looks like overwatering/co2 problem? I am using a producer and hand watering I am thinking of filling the res and firing up the airstones to give the plants more co2.......any input? 

And yes I am new to this we all were at one time I am just trying to learn......

thanks.


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## orzz (Jul 1, 2009)

homegrow101 said:


> A question if I may can you please look at my attached pic and tell me if it looks like overwatering/co2 problem? I am using a producer and hand watering I am thinking of filling the res and firing up the airstones to give the plants more co2.......any input?
> 
> And yes I am new to this we all were at one time I am just trying to learn......
> 
> thanks.


Airstones in the res are for O2 not Co2.


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## BLUNTED4REAL (Jul 1, 2009)

UB, are you saying ph is not that important when watering your plants on a regular basis?


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 1, 2009)

BLUNTED4REAL said:


> UB, are you saying ph is not that important when watering your plants on a regular basis?


I'm saying that soil is a powerful buffer and folks fritter over pH values too much, especially when it comes to their water's pH value. 

I have heard this pH bullshit for 10 years, so I decided years ago I was going to conduct my own experiment. I took water adjusted to values of say.....4.5 and 9.2 and drenched pots of typical organic soil. Let it sit, and then tested the runoff. The only affect was short term. The long term affect, like an hour after watering, was negligible. This doesn't even address the baloney "lockouts" folk talk about. 

Bottom line? Folks need to learn what makes a plant tick and stop placing blame on insignificant crap like pH. Cannabis is a pH tolerant plant when it comes to nutrient uptake. Wean yourself off the charts, and grow some plants people.

UB


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## BLUNTED4REAL (Jul 2, 2009)

thanks for your reply UB


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## wyteboi (Jul 3, 2009)

" Wean yourself off the charts, and grow some plants people." <<<< this is some of the best shit i ever seen on RIU, along with some of your other posts uncle! you trully are the man!!!!

I have NEVER HEARD such a thing as too much light.......EVER! and i bet 9 outta 10 folks on here will disagree, but i seen it with my own eyes.........."bleaching" is all i can say. I pulled the light up some, and dropped the plants some and magiclly i have new growth now...... now the ph thing just puts you over the top! you know this already but somtimes it helps to hear it from someone new.......you are the man , uncle ben.


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## swordfish192007 (Jul 4, 2009)

im a new grower, my plant appears to be female, hairs are starting to appear. i have it in a 1ft high pot,it is about 3.5ft tall,if anyone has any growing tips id highly appreciate it,will it bud soon?,how often should i water the plant?


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 5, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> " Wean yourself off the charts, and grow some plants people." <<<< this is some of the best shit i ever seen on RIU, along with some of your other posts uncle! you trully are the man!!!!
> 
> I have NEVER HEARD such a thing as too much light.......EVER! and i bet 9 outta 10 folks on here will disagree, but i seen it with my own eyes.........."bleaching" is all i can say.


Thanks for the kind words.

Folks try too hard. They give their plants too much of everything usually. Less is more.

I addressed the light issue because I was tired of hearing folks telling other folks that "you can't give a plant too much light"....as they sat there and watched the very element for photosynthesis being bleached/destroyed, chlorophyll.

*3. High Light - yes, it&#8217;s true, you can give our faves too much light. Cannabis does not receive full sun from sunrise to sunset in its natural state. It is shaded or given reduced light levels because of adjacent plant material, cloudy conditions, rain, debris and dust collection on the leaf surface, twilight periods of early morning and late afternoon, and light intensity changes caused by a change in the seasons. Too much light mainly serves to bleach out and destroy chlorophyll as opposed to causing leaf cupping, but it often goes hand-in-hand with high heat for indoor growers. Again, back off on the light and concentrate on developing/maintaining an efficient and robust root system. Keep in mind that all but equatorial material receive less light during flowering than during the vegetative stage.
*
And this may come as a shock to some, while folks are giving their plants MORE light during flowering (again pushing them when they should not be), they should be backing off. It's all about keeping the plant green until harvest. Think of cannabis under natural conditions. When does the plant receive the least total daily photon accumulation? That's right, during flowering, especially mid to late term.

UB


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## The Stig (Jul 6, 2009)

ashleynewth said:


> hey ub. i've got a problem with a few of my plants and was hoping u could diagnose it for me. i suffered root rot last grow. i sterilized and started over from seed. i'm growing in pots with perlite with a pump feeding them twice a day. i regularly check ph and nutes. temps are 15c-26c. reservoir temp was 17c but i've just (today) installed heaters to keep it around 22c. humidity varies from 25-65%. heaps of fresh air. lights about 50cm from canopy. i've been using same nutes as always but started using dr hornbys big bud and hygrozime this grow. i am using cooltubes for the first time which has cooled the room considerably. outside temps have been very cold lately. i had a big bud plant with a few curled under shade leaves. suddenly one day all the leaves were cupped. i hacked it because i found a few suspicious looking balls on it earlier. suddenly a few other plants (all different strains) have begun doing the same thing. these plants seem to be growing more vertical than the others. the buds aren't fattening or as smelly either. i've read up on ur causes of this problem (leaf curl) but i don't seem to have any of these causes. i use polycarbonate roof sheeting as my drainage tray. a mate suggested this may be breaking down and poisoning the plants. another mate (a plastic injection moulder) said this was improbable because its u.v stabilised. its stressing me out. i've been growing for many years without a problem suddenly i cant seem to get it right. i am hoping it is just cold reservoir temps and i've already fixed the problem. please help. i've attached photos of healthy and affected plants. i've posted in this thread because moisture stress seems like the most common cause. cheers



that's interesting, I'm kinda having the same problem (not that bad now) and at my grow it begin after I added some "BigBud" from Dr.Horby  and my bigbud Plants were getting like that that crispy felling on the leafs.


I notice the change on the plants 24-48 hours after using bigbud... 
However this is the first time I have that problem and I have used Dr.Horby BigBud before, with great results.

Maybe an overdose of Dr.Horby Bugbud and nuts

In my case changing the reservoir seems to had stop the problem from getting worse


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## East (Jul 8, 2009)

Hey UB, nice thread. Okay well I have big problems with my plants right now. I just transplanted them from a clay soil(in the ground) into pots with fox farm soil because I have to move them somewhere. I watered them once the night I transplanted them, and twice the next day. Day 2 the bottom fan leaves begin yellowing and having a crispy feel to the leaves so I know its bad. I also noticed that the top of the plants like to hang once the sun comes out and the wind starts getting stronger, but at night they rise back up. Heres some pictures of them Day 3 of the transplant: http://img37.imageshack.us/i/001vhc.jpg/ http://img20.imageshack.us/i/002ytx.jpg/ http://img34.imageshack.us/i/003hmk.jpg/ http://img106.imageshack.us/i/005i.jpg/ 

Now im into Day 5 and they still arent looking good, it seems as though the tops are growing okay..but the yellow just keeps coming to the next set of leaves!


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 8, 2009)

East said:


> Hey UB, nice thread. Okay well I have big problems with my plants right now. I just transplanted them from a clay soil(in the ground) into pots with fox farm soil because I have to move them somewhere. I watered them once the night I transplanted them, and twice the next day. Day 2 the bottom fan leaves begin yellowing and having a crispy feel to the leaves so I know its bad. I also noticed that the top of the plants like to hang once the sun comes out and the wind starts getting stronger, but at night they rise back up. Heres some pictures of them Day 3 of the transplant: http://img37.imageshack.us/i/001vhc.jpg/ http://img20.imageshack.us/i/002ytx.jpg/ http://img34.imageshack.us/i/003hmk.jpg/ http://img106.imageshack.us/i/005i.jpg/
> 
> Now im into Day 5 and they still arent looking good, it seems as though the tops are growing okay..but the yellow just keeps coming to the next set of leaves!


Sounds like a case of transplant shock due to a loss of root mass. Being taken out of the ground, especially clay, is gonna really rip the root system, especially the root hairs which is the plant's main unit for the uptake of water and salts. The leaves are "rising back up" at night because they are no longer losing alot of water thru heavy leaf transpiration induced by the sun and wind. The leaves are yellowing because there is no longer the root mass to transfer sufficient NPK. They'll recover but you need to baby them (keep them shaded from west sun and mist them) and if you put them back in the ground, bury the trunk up to first healthy leafsets. Pinch off everything below that point. 

Good luck,
UB


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## East (Jul 8, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Sounds like a case of transplant shock due to a loss of root mass. The leaves are "rising back up" at night because they are no longer losing alot of water thru leaf transpiration. The leaves are yellowing because there is no longer the root mass to transfer sufficient NPK. They'll recover but you need to baby them (keep them shaded from west sun and mist them) and if you put them back in the ground, bury the trunk up to first healthy leafsets. Pinch off everything below that point.
> 
> Good luck,
> UB


http://img9.imageshack.us/i/001fpw.jpg/
http://img188.imageshack.us/i/002zce.jpg/
http://img125.imageshack.us/i/003icc.jpg/
http://img195.imageshack.us/i/004mdh.jpg/

Look how bad my ladies look.  I ripped off several leaves...and Im bringing them in the shed for now since its sunny and hot out. Yeah, im gunna bring them down to my regular spot and bury them up to the first good set of leaves...Im probably gunna end up messing up more roots by taking them out of these pots but ill do my best.


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 8, 2009)

What are you doing? Did you yank out your plants, put them in a potting soil with the intent to put them back in the ground at a different site?


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## East (Jul 8, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> What are you doing? Did you yank out your plants, put them in a potting soil with the intent to put them back in the ground at a different site?


Rents want them out, yeah I was stressin at the time...thought I did a better job of transplanting them but I guess not. I just went out and bought some foxfarm veg. grow too for them. Would you think if I used clonex on them it would stimulate them to grow roots faster? Just a thought..oh and btw I misted them and brought them in the shed and they look alot better.


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 9, 2009)

East said:


> Rents want them out, yeah I was stressin at the time...thought I did a better job of transplanting them but I guess not. I just went out and bought some foxfarm veg. grow too for them. Would you think if I used clonex on them it would stimulate them to grow roots faster? Just a thought..oh and btw I misted them and brought them in the shed and they look alot better.


You could try the clonex, won't hurt. It's just gonna take time for that plant to recover, weeks. Go easy on the plant food. Right now it doesn't require much and any excess will burn the new sensitive root hairs. Give them shelter from the hot sun and wind, mist once in a while to keep the RH in the micro-climate high, and leave 'em them in the pot. If you want to transplant it later outdoors, then use a shovel to dig a 3" deep hole the diameter of the pot, drop the pot into that hole, fill in the gaps around the pot with dirt and they'll do better than if they had been popped out of the pot with the rootball transplanted back into native soil. The roots will find the drainholes, grow into native soil reaping the benefit of your watering and salts application.

UB


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## East (Jul 9, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> You could try the clonex, won't hurt. It's just gonna take time for that plant to recover, weeks. Go easy on the plant food. Right now it doesn't require much and any excess will burn the new sensitive root hairs. Give them shelter from the hot sun and wind, mist once in a while to keep the RH in the micro-climate high, and leave 'em them in the pot. If you want to transplant it later outdoors, then use a shovel to dig a 3" deep hole the diameter of the pot, drop the pot into that hole, fill in the gaps around the pot with dirt and they'll do better than if they had been popped out of the pot with the rootball transplanted back into native soil. The roots will find the drainholes, grow into native soil reaping the benefit of your watering and salts application.
> 
> UB


Nice *thumbs up*, thanks for the help man.


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## Katatawnic (Jul 10, 2009)

Hi Uncle Ben, I'm in a bit of a dilemma. My plants are 20 days old, and everything was going so smoothly until we had a major power outage last weekend. (I was asleep throughout the first six or so hours, so was quite unaware.) That opened up a huge can of worms, and now I'm fighting a case of pythium. It's mild because I've been aggressively attacking it, but it's so persistent and honestly my body just can't take any more of this. (I'm physically limited.) So far my plants don't appear to have any visible signs of pythium, only the roots.

I've gardened a good 25 of my 38 years, and the funny thing is I'd "just do it" if it were any other plant. But here I am looking for opinions and advice first, simply because it's a "different" kind of plant.  I've encountered pythium before, and likely will again. What I've done in the past, if cleansing/sanitizing everything and trimming off dead/weak portions of the roots doesn't stop it quickly, is to simply cut the plant and start it rooting over again; treating it like a "clone" so to speak. However, I've not had to deal with pythium this early before. One of my plants is developing its fifth node, the other three their sixth.

*What I've been doing:*


Drain reservoir, clean & sanitize everything. Add peroxide to reservoir after filling. At least once daily.
Flush the net pots, spray diluted peroxide directly on the roots and grow medium, let it soak and do its stuff, rinse thoroughly. Several times daily, whenever "gunk" on the roots starts to show even slightly.
Trim off all dead/weak roots that can be accessed.
Draining/replenishing the reservoir once a week is hard enough on me; I normally have a weekly schedule because the day I do my cleaning maintenance, I'm useless to do anything else. Needless to day, this daily draining/cleaning/refilling is not only causing a lot of pain, but literally rendering me immobile for hours. They *are* growing little new shoots of roots, but the pythium is faster than I am, and I don't see much of a chance for the roots to recover on their own.

So, now that I made a very long story as short as possible  .... I'm ready to do the "treating them like clones" thing and be done with the worst of this battle. I can keep them in a tray/dome setup for now, which will give me time to thoroughly sterilize the reservoir and pumps, etc., and have a fresh start. But because they are so young, I'm not sure if it'll help or kill them.

I know you're not a hydro guy, but plants is plants.  And I'm wondering if you think this is the best route at this point, or if there's something else I could do that's more effective and less stressful on them. (The constant washing of the roots has to be stressful too though, because you've gotta really get in there to reach the effected areas, and even then you just can't get in there quite enough!) Please keep in mind that I am *flat broke* till the 15th. I mean absolutely not a penny; the owner of the little "$1+" store next door was kind enough to front me more peroxide because I couldn't even dig up enough change for that!

*EDIT:* I do have Hygrozyme ordered, which will help with the cleaning. I'm guesstimating it'll be here by Monday. That's the last purchase I made before breaking the bank.  And I've got a photo from night before last. They look the same today. Still no damage to the foliage; it's only attacked the roots so far.

Thanks in advance for any advice! 



wyteboi said:


> " Wean yourself off the charts, and grow some plants people." <<<< this is some of the best shit i ever seen on RIU, along with some of your other posts uncle! you trully are the man!!!!
> 
> I have NEVER HEARD such a thing as too much light.......EVER! and i bet 9 outta 10 folks on here will disagree, but i seen it with my own eyes.........."bleaching" is all i can say. I pulled the light up some, and dropped the plants some and magiclly i have new growth now...... now the ph thing just puts you over the top! you know this already but somtimes it helps to hear it from someone new.......you are the man , uncle ben.


Indeed!  I took the advice of those saying to put the lights SO close to my (last) plants, and they got bleached and burned! Moved them back up to where I felt comfortable with it, and they flourished wonderfully.

Another thing is the whole debate as to how many hours to have light. I don't agree with 24/0 myself, it just doesn't make sense. Part of photosynthesis is a rest period! If we humans don't get sleep, we become very sluggish and our health deteriorates. Growth in children is stunted. Why wouldn't this be the same for plants?! I never go more than 20/4, and prefer 18/6. Seeing how perky they are in the morning after a good night's rest, I could never see going 24/0.

Also, although of course pH can cause problems, it's just as often (if not more so) a *symptom* of problems rather than the cause. For instance, right after the pythium started its attack, my pH went up right along with it. It was just fine until then. And so long as I work to stay on top of the pythium as much as possible, my pH remains just fine.


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## East (Jul 12, 2009)

Sorry to cut in, heres one of my ladies as of now UB. 


The other one is still in stress, I actually decided to change its soil a few days ago because my friend gave me some fox farm soil. So hopefully she recovers as well...only time will tell.


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## driftwoodg (Jul 12, 2009)

i'd give them a medium dose of kelp emulsion with water, and give them three days rest before re-planting them. they look fine to me. you could even add some rooting hormone to the mix, and that should solve your worries about the root issue. 
good luck.


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## purpsmyfave (Jul 13, 2009)

my plant thanks you


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## olishell (Jul 13, 2009)

Wow...you answered alot of my Q:s I am a devotee..Are you married?


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## BlazinPassion4Green (Jul 16, 2009)

I've have the problem of underwatering because the heat n wind been drying it up, before it was raining more but lately it been sunny n last time I saw it was dry to the bone n plants leaves were wilted n flop n curling n turning very dark green, but it's such far distancevaway we can only make it up once a week or so wat culd I do to fix this problem


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 17, 2009)

BlazinPassion4Green said:


> I've have the problem of underwatering because the heat n wind been drying it up, before it was raining more but lately it been sunny n last time I saw it was dry to the bone n plants leaves were wilted n flop n curling n turning very dark green, but it's such far distancevaway we can only make it up once a week or so wat culd I do to fix this problem


Water ~

As my area goes thru the worst multi year drought and record heat in all of recording history, I feel yo' pain. The only thing you can do to help the situation now is mulch, hand carry water to the site and pray for rain. As a city boy turned farmer I can give a bit of advice, as growing anything CAN be an emotionally devastating thing -

1. if you can't handle losses then don't get involved, 

2. If you're one that must always be in control, then don't get involved. It doesn't matter what you do, mama nature is gonna kick your ass every which way but Sunday......then there's the cops, thieves, pests, etc.

Of course you can do what the boyz south of Corsicana did and put in an elaborate irrigation system for 10,000 plants. Problem is those boyz are going to jail.

http://cbs11tv.com/local/navarro.county.marijuana.2.1088799.html

Good luck,
UB


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## George W. (Jul 17, 2009)

Hey Uncle 

Can underwatering using a soilless mixture in a hydro drip system cause salt buildup and then Nute Lock Out?


COLOR="Green"]George W. (and by the way in my parts George W. is another name for weed not any political affiliation on my part I dont believe in a goverment that has no room for weed in their agenda)[/COLOR]


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## PowerPlantPuss (Jul 18, 2009)

canadiancracker said:


> can you help check these out
> 
> thanks in advance,
> 
> ...


the first pic, looks like the plant is too big 4 the pot!!! i had the same problem untill i realized how but the roots actually get! try transplanting it into a bigger pot with fresh potting compost it worked wounders for mine


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## felloffscooterstoned (Jul 18, 2009)

start off with good soil and quality seed. by getting good soil and you can do away with grow nutrient just use bloom when you flower them. that way you wont have a build up of chemicals also can i mention that if you want good free soil look for a patch of stinging nettles put the weeds out and grab some soil stinging nettles puduce nitrogen crystals in the ground i seen some fantastic results


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 20, 2009)

George W. said:


> Hey Uncle
> 
> Can underwatering using a soilless mixture in a hydro drip system cause salt buildup and then Nute Lock Out?


As the soil moisture is reduced the salts ppm rises. It's all relative.


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## TrailMix (Jul 21, 2009)

Im not too sure whats going on with my plant, but in the pictures you can see the yellowing, but it seems to go away when the leaf matures? 
Lil help? I made this thread but no one really responded! Thanks
https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/216902-unsure-time-period.html#post2770904


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## Joder Kraspen (Jul 21, 2009)

Thank you, very informative for my problems.


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## ronin673 (Jul 22, 2009)

Hey all,
I'm wondering instead of diluted molasses for carbs, I would give my girls rasinwater. It's just 8 oz of purified water that has 2 small boxes of rasins that has been soaking in it. 

*Food Value *​ *Minerals and Vitamins *​ Moisture - 20.2% Calcium - 87 mg Protein - 1.8% Phosphorus - 80 mg Fat - 0.3% Iron - 7.7 mg Minerals - 2.0% Vitamin C - 1 mg Carbohydrates - 74.6% Small amount of Vitamin B Complex Fibre - 1.1% * Value per 100 gm's edible portion Calorific Value - 308

This might also be a nice way to back down the acidity off soil or grow medium as raisins are naturally alkaline.
Any thoughts?


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## BlazinPassion4Green (Jul 22, 2009)

Wher can i find mulch n also wat else may i be able to add to hold moisture or any other waterin methods, like i heard bout someting called aqua pots


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## BlazinPassion4Green (Jul 23, 2009)

? n e one got n e ideas? Plz


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## ronin673 (Jul 24, 2009)

What does a toddler have to do to get a question answered around here?


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## orzz (Jul 25, 2009)

ronin673 said:


> What does a toddler have to do to get a question answered around here?


Be patient young one. Sometimes it takes a couple days to get an answer or more.

some things to remember ....


be sure to post in the appropriate place for your question
You won't get much advice if your questions are not complete
questions about plants .... give us some pics, some info on nutes, lighting, temp, pH, ppm/EC, etc
do some searching on the forums before asking questions
people don't get paid to answer questions on this forum
our own op's may be demanding our attention
we have a life and may be living it.
So be patient .


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 27, 2009)

ronin673 said:


> What does a toddler have to do to get a question answered around here?


I've been very busy....... now to answer your question, molasses or any kind of sugar stuff is useless. You're assuming that carbs applied by a grower is of value just because it's parroted in a cannabis forum. It is not. Plants manufacturer their own simple and complex carbos, they don't need exterior applications.

Rainwater is excellent used as a soil drench, it contains nitrates and microbes. Learning what makes a plant tick is what growing is all about, not toddler stuff like "It's just 8 oz of purified water that has 2 small boxes of rasins that has been soaking in it." And for the record, raisins are acidic, not alkaline. They contain mainly malic and tartaric acid FWIW. If you need to reduce the pH of your soil, use powdered sulfur, aluminum sulfate, or peat moss. Grow pot like you would a tomato plant, and not with all the crap you hear and read about in cannabis forums. 

Save the raisins for your cereal. 

BTW, for the lurkers (*visitor messages*) writing me I'm not ignoring you, I technically can not make a reply in the "Visitors" section. When I click on your post it redirects me to _my_ profile for some strange reason. Feel free to send me a PM instead.

Well said orzz, thanks. 

Uncle Ben


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## Katatawnic (Jul 27, 2009)

UB didn't get to the questions I'd posted a few weeks ago. I figured he was busy, not blowing off my issue. While I *patiently* awaited his response, I searched the RIU forums as well as Googling my problem, and between the answers I found and some simple common sense, my problem was fixed.

While spamming the forums with the same question over and over is extremely rude and disruptive to the rest of the forum users, waiting around for one person to answer your questions isn't wise. Hence, post your questions in the hopes of someone else having (and sharing) the knowledge you seek, but while awaiting a reply.... *do your research*!!! 



Uncle Ben said:


> Grow pot like you would a tomato plant, and not with all the crap you hear and read about in cannabis forums.


*Indeed UB, indeed!*


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 27, 2009)

Katatawnic said:


> UB didn't get to the questions I'd posted a few weeks ago. I figured he was busy, not blowing off my issue. While I *patiently* awaited his response, I searched the RIU forums as well as Googling my problem, and between the answers I found and some simple common sense, my problem was fixed.
> 
> While spamming the forums with the same question over and over is extremely rude and disruptive to the rest of the forum users, waiting around for one person to answer your questions isn't wise. Hence, post your questions in the hopes of someone else having (and sharing) the knowledge you seek, but while awaiting a reply.... *do your research*!!!
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm not here to be someone's nanny nor teach the basics of what makes a plant tick, that is the grower's job. If you don't know the basics of plant culture, then you need to do some research. The reason why I wrote this ditty is because everyone seems to repeat their moisture stress issue over and over again in some form and fashion, but even then, with a pinnned thread at the top, folks are gonna do the lazy thing and ask the same ol tired questions, "Help, my leaves are curling, what do I do!" 

Please do not ask me what mulch is or where you can get the many forums it comes in, do your homework. If you're under the age of 18, then please do not ask for my help as I don't condone youth prematurely burning their brain cells. There's plenty of time for all that. 

Katatawnic, glad you got your questions answered. I may have overlooked the post, don't know. Sorry bro.

Make it a great day,
UB


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## Katatawnic (Jul 27, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Yeah, I'm not here to be someone's nanny nor teach the basics of what makes a plant tick, that is the grower's job. If you don't know the basics of plant culture, then you need to do some research.


*Absolutely!* 

*[RANT]*
I'm thankful for the availability of info here at RIU, but IMNSHO the _Age of Information_ has brought on a new wave of laziness. Instead of searching for info, all too many people expect it to be handed to them on a silver platter. (I'm not referring to anyone in particular. Rather, people in general.) Perhaps I'm just old enough  to remember needing to go to the library, searching for what I needed in the card catalogues (yep, B.C.: Before Computers!), then going from one end of the library to the other in search of the books the card catalogue referred me to, most likely only to be referred to yet more books.... ad nauseum! Compare all of that to typing some keywords into a text box at a search engine right here on my laptop, and researching on my own just doesn't seem like such a chore. Obtaining information is so much easier nowadays, but we still need to look for it rather than expecting others to do it for us while we sit on our lazy asses eating "magic" bon bons! I'm sure that I can count on my fingers how many questions I've posted here at RIU, and all but one weren't "issue-related" but instead just curious about others' opinions. Even with the "emergency" I had earlier this month, I researched and used common sense instead of just posting my problem and expecting for others to hand-feed me the solutions. I wasn't about to sit here and let my plants die while waiting for someone else to swoop in and save my plants for me! I'm not trying to come off as "better" than anyone else; just pointing out (as many others have and do) that it's much less difficult to research and tackle a problem than it is to wait until others have the time to answer (much less opportunity to read) questions that are already answered at least 99.9% of the time.
*[/RANT]*



> Katatawnic, glad you got your questions answered. I may have overlooked the post, don't know. Sorry bro.


NP at all, UB!  I'm sure you just missed my post, because you didn't reply to this thread for close to a week afterwards. However (again), I wasn't going to sit here and wait for someone (anyone) to get back to me; so I researched what I didn't know and applied what I already knew from gardening most of my life. (Not MJ until the last few months, but plants is plants when it comes down to the basics!) Long story short, I had a pythium outbreak. Hydro in the So. CA desert just isn't feasible if you don't have a house with central air instead of evaporative coolers. I got the pythium under control with H2O2, daily draining/sterilizing/refilling of the reservoir, trimming off dead/infected roots, ETC.! But it was a horrific battle to keep the reservoir temps down, so on the 17th I switched to soil. Now everything's going wonderfully. I figured I'd switch back to hydro after the weather cools down again and/or when we buy our house and have a better environment for temperature control, but I think I'm sticking with soil for good!  ANYHOOO, do these look like five week old plants that had a fairly bad pythium outbreak and underwent stress from constant handling for cleaning, trimming, and transplanting?  Oh, and I'm a sis, not a bro.


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 27, 2009)

Katatawnic said:


> ANYHOOO, do these look like five week old plants that had a fairly bad pythium outbreak and underwent stress from constant handling for cleaning, trimming, and transplanting?  Oh, and I'm a sis, not a bro.


Hey sis, they's lookin' good! Healthy, green - that's what it's all about. 

My only comment is to watch for an overwatering situation as they are rather small compared to pot size, all depends on soil structure. But, once those roots start filling out the pot and foliage doubles in size in a week, it won't be an issue.

Pythium spores (damping-off) can be controlled with simple sanitation and cultural measures. 

Grow hard,
UB


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## Katatawnic (Jul 27, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Hey sis, they's lookin' good! Healthy, green - that's what it's all about.
> 
> My only comment is to watch for an overwatering situation as they are rather small compared to pot size, all depends on soil structure. But, once those roots start filling out the pot and foliage doubles in size in a week, it won't be an issue.
> 
> ...


YAY, Uncle Ben complimenting one's plants is quite the compliment!  Nah, not kissing up, I just respect your knowledge and no-nonsense common sense.  You know I was teasing about the "sis" thing, right? It's to be generally assumed that the majority of RIU members, especially the growers, are male. 

Yeah, I had the sanitation part down easy. (My grow "room" is the only room in my house that's to be considered "hospital" sanitary! lol) Once the summer's heat wave finally kicked in, that was it. Too hot to control reservoir temps. Screw hydro, soil is much less work and the environment is easier to control. I'll take ease and quality over faster growth any day! 

Thankfully I'm aware of when to water and when not to water. I see overwatering a very common problem with gardening. My plants have been in soil for ten days now, and today was the first time they needed watering since the transplant. Right now it takes less than one gallon to water all four plants and both seedlings.... with feeding every two-to-three waterings, I'll be saving money on nutrients in soil vs. hydro, too! (That's how I've always fed my plants: every two-to-three waterings. Should it be different with MJ, or no? So far they've only had a small amount of rooting hormones when I transplanted, and they're flourishing which leads me to believe that I don't need to feed more often than every three waterings at this point.)

They're already on their way to doubling in size in a week! Four days' apart, and there's undeniably been a return of rapid growth. My son was visiting yesterday, and was shocked to hear all the stress they'd been through just over a week ago.

Thanks again for all the advice you so freely offer to others, UB! Quite a lot of what I've learned about MJ growing has been from following your posts. I hope that one day I can provide as much help as you do now. Pay it forward and all that jazz! 

~~ *Kat* ~~


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## Jammer93543 (Jul 27, 2009)

uncle ben thanks for that info hope it helps my one baby


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 28, 2009)

Jammer93543, yeah, hope it helps too. 

Katatawnic glad to help. Remember the KISS principle, keep it green and you'll be fine. I always get fast growing plants in soil, for example: 
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html

Notice the change in only one week. 

Grow hard,
Uncle Ben


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## ronin673 (Jul 28, 2009)

Thanks UB, I was not attempting to ape any posted info, just asking for clarification. By the way, Raisins are Alkaline FWIW http://www.essense-of-life.com/moreinfo/foodcharts.htm


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 29, 2009)

ronin673 said:


> Thanks UB, I was not attempting to ape any posted info, just asking for clarification. By the way, Raisins are Alkaline FWIW http://www.essense-of-life.com/moreinfo/foodcharts.htm


Are you ingesting raisins or using it on your plants? I don't care what the impact might be on the human body as hawked by some off the wall wacked out, "essence of life" holistic crap website. 

Raisins contain 2 organic acids - malic and tartaric plus a few minor acids and therefore will have an acidic value with a pH meter when steeped in water. Not that I care other than for the sake of discussion.

Enjoy your "health" foods,
UB


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## bigsourD (Jul 30, 2009)

Okay, i need some advice. I have 4 white widow plants 2weeks of age. I started them in sphagnum/peat moss mix and added some perlite for aeriation (good or bad?). Basically i've followed all of the procedures on this site. I have them under 4 75 watt tublular florescent bulbs 24 hours a day atm and have been growing spectacular until now. Yesterday i noticed the leaves have started to turn upwards and curl down, and now one of them is starting to fall over. I usually water every 2-3 days. Maybe they are deprived of nutrients? I'm afraid to do more harm than good by adding nutrients in this state or is that ok? I have Humboldt Nutrients Natural Grow (3-1-3) and Bloom (0-10-0). The temp usually stays around 73-79 far. Any suggestions?


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## BudMastaPhil (Aug 3, 2009)

Hey im Actualy having a problem that seem to be in between a few of your simptoms. this one plant isent draining the water out of its soil normaly and it seem like its taking a lighter yellow ish colour on the leaves some of the lower leafs are turning yeallow and i need sum tips cause time's running out and hopefully that can be changed


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## Gizeh (Aug 7, 2009)

really good post, thanks


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 9, 2009)

bigsourD said:


> Okay, i need some advice. I have 4 white widow plants 2weeks of age. I started them in sphagnum/peat moss mix and added some perlite for aeriation (good or bad?). Basically i've followed all of the procedures on this site. I have them under 4 75 watt tublular florescent bulbs 24 hours a day atm and have been growing spectacular until now. Yesterday i noticed the leaves have started to turn upwards and curl down, and now one of them is starting to fall over.


Could be a few things - too little light, too much salts.

Following the procedures on this site will doom you for good. You need to understand the whys and wherefores of botany. 



BudMastaPhil said:


> Hey im Actualy having a problem that seem to be in between a few of your simptoms. this one plant isent draining the water out of its soil normaly and it seem like its taking a lighter yellow ish colour on the leaves some of the lower leafs are turning yeallow and i need sum tips cause time's running out and hopefully that can be changed


Root system is the pits.


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## greengenez (Aug 11, 2009)

I've been growing in 2 gal. pots. when finished roots are not even close to filling pot. tried less water, raising temp.,shrinking room to maximize light. plants are healthy green but not producing like they should. please help with any ideas


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 11, 2009)

greengenez said:


> I've been growing in 2 gal. pots. when finished roots are not even close to filling pot. tried less water, raising temp.,shrinking room to maximize light. plants are healthy green but not producing like they should. please help with any ideas


What did you start them in?


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## greengenez (Aug 11, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> What did you start them in?


 soil. clone from hydro spritzer


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## greengenez (Aug 12, 2009)

how can you tell when post has been responded to? sorry


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## bpboothb (Aug 12, 2009)

Hello all, i am leaning towards Iron defeciency(see picture). I am growing in Royal Crown Coco and I am using Advanced Nutrients Micro-Grow-Bloom at 20ml per 14 liters and Advanced Nutrients SensiCal at 10ml per 14 liters. I thought this was sufficient nutirents, however I am starting to think I may need to bump up the dosage...any thoughts?

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk133/bpboothb/Picture036.jpg


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## bpboothb (Aug 12, 2009)

bpboothb said:


> Hello all, i am leaning towards Iron defeciency(see picture). I am growing in Royal Crown Coco and I am using Advanced Nutrients Micro-Grow-Bloom at 20ml per 14 liters and Advanced Nutrients SensiCal at 10ml per 14 liters. I thought this was sufficient nutirents, however I am starting to think I may need to bump up the dosage...any thoughts?
> 
> http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk133/bpboothb/Picture036.jpg


 
My apologies, I did not mean to post that in this thread, wasn't paying attention.


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## MendelMaster (Aug 14, 2009)

Uncle Ben,

I had moisture stress problems with my plant and I read every single post in this thread over the past few days that helped me correct the problem. I wanted to thank you for your common sense botanical insight. Your ability to share it with other growers makes this thread different than the others.

Gregor


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 14, 2009)

MendelMaster said:


> Uncle Ben,
> 
> I had moisture stress problems with my plant and I read every single post in this thread over the past few days that helped me correct the problem. I wanted to thank you for your common sense botanical insight. Your ability to share it with other growers makes this thread different than the others.
> 
> Gregor


Thanks for taking the time for sharing your kind thoughts! Sharing is what it's all about. I take a no-bullshit approach.

It's a weed, treat it as such and it will return many a fun time.  Load it up with alot of crap you see hawked by vendors and their tools, and you're doomed to failure.

UB


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## stankydank420 (Aug 14, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Thanks for taking the time for sharing your kind thoughts! Sharing is what it's all about. I take a no-bullshit approach.
> 
> It's a weed, treat it as such and it will return many a fun time.  Load it up with alot of crap you see hawked by vendors and their tools, and you're doomed to failure.
> 
> UB


 
Please help me UB, about a week ago I transfered these to 5 gallon buckets since the leaves were cupping due to being root bound. Ever since the repotting I noticed the leaves curling even more and I read your stuff and am pretty sure im overwatering in these new bigger pots. But my main question is what the heck are the little spots? I doubt its a PH issue since I have many plants that get the same water/nutrient mix and they are all fine plus im pretty anal about PH testing my water. Can you please help me? I thank you in advance.


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## MendelMaster (Aug 14, 2009)

stankydank420 said:


> I doubt its a PH issue since I have many plants that get the same water/nutrient mix and they are all fine plus im pretty anal about PH testing my water. Can you please help me? I thank you in advance.
> 
> View attachment 510283
> 
> View attachment 510284


From a new student in the UB school of NO BS, I think it's still recovering from rootbound and overwatering (and maybe pH as well, which those spots might be related. Maybe not). Each plant uses salts at different rates, and each soil can decompose at different rates. Thus it gives you a varying range of pH among different soils that receive the same pH water. Something happens in the soil matrix where it is buffered at different rates (i.e. diff. temps). Test the soil runoff when its' ready to be watered next time and see if that might be an additional problem. I would not fix anything until you have the rootbound and moisture stress under control first.

Then again I could be wayoff, as I am only a new enrollee in the UB school of NO BS.


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## stankydank420 (Aug 14, 2009)

Thanks, you sound spot on. I was thinking the same thing. I was just asking UB since he seems to know what it is and how to fix. I will try testing the run off water and adjust from there. They are currently on a no water diet since wed. I think my problem started with watering too much to make up for the bigger pot earlier than my roots were ready for it. I think my spots are some kind of lack of absorbing something due to too much water.


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## motz (Aug 15, 2009)

can you add some pics to the article? thanks!


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## MendelMaster (Aug 15, 2009)

How are they holding up Stanky?


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## skunkyhead (Aug 16, 2009)

ok. I'm pretty sure i know my problem. I'm just after some confirmation. I think my girls are telling me that im nuking them (nute burn)Here we go. In week 5 of flower. grow in coco (micks mix) girls under 600 hps and using dutch master advanced flower at full strength. I just flushed and made new resi up with full strength again and added Boontabud and dm max flower. about 4 days in my girls leafes are like this. This is probebly one of the worst leafes affected. So far it's only on bottom 1/2 of plant but it looks like it is creeping up.

My q is this. Will the less affected leaves make a recovery? And is it nute burn?

The only new thing in mix is boonta. The other variable can think of is temp change in res.Seeing that it is outside undercover and getting colder nights. Possible drop out? 

I'm putting my $ on nute burn but like i said. i just want confirmation.Sorry if i wasted anybody's time. It's just i want to know my problem before i attempt to fix it caus i don't want all my hard work to go to waste. Many cheers in advanc!!

P.s i don't know what the room temp is at caus my reader broke and i don't have a ppm reader either. But i do know it is pretty constant with lights on caus i spend alot of time with my girls.

pps. Awsome thread and info! Cheers to all who contributed!


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## stankydank420 (Aug 16, 2009)

MendelMaster said:


> How are they holding up Stanky?


Hey brother, the leaves are starting to uncurl a bit. I havent watered them since the beggining of last week when I posted this. Seem to be improving with the soil geting dryer. Cant wait till the soil is dry so I can get the PH right again. The little freckles are still on the leaves but I doubt they will ever go away.

Is our Uncle on Vacation? lol


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 17, 2009)

stankydank420 said:


> Please help me UB, about a week ago I transfered these to 5 gallon buckets since the leaves were cupping due to being root bound. Ever since the repotting I noticed the leaves curling even more and I read your stuff and am pretty sure im overwatering in these new bigger pots. But my main question is what the heck are the little spots? I doubt its a PH issue since I have many plants that get the same water/nutrient mix and they are all fine plus im pretty anal about PH testing my water. Can you please help me? I thank you in advance.


Howdy, been busier than a one legged man in an ass kickin' contest. Guess it's time to catch up. Regarding your concerns.....

pH is only relevant when it comes to nutrient availability, has nothing to do with moisture stress. A rootbound condition will not usually show up as leaf curl unless you're not watering your plant enough, or properly. Could be dry channels in the soil medium if you let them go too long without a thorough drench. Don't get me wrong, if it's severely rootbound then yes, the stress may show as leaf curl, but I doubt if that's likely in your case. 

Leaf spotting can be due to several issues. If you have thrips, aphids, mites or any other insect which gets its nourishment by sucking moisture out of a leaf, then it will create spots as it bites/sticks. Most times leaf spotting is a reaction to too much salts. Can't help ya unless I know the NPK's, frequency, amount, etc. I don't go by labels, they are meaningless in the real world. 

A 5 gallon pot is pretty big, but if you had root spin-out before you upcanned, then the roots should fill the pot pretty quickly....all depends on plant vigor, health, soil structure, etc. No easy answer. If you have spin-out, you can mechanically induce root branching by scoring the rootball with a sharp knife or razor blade. Starting at the top of the ball and working to the bottom, score the rootball about 1/2" deep, four times around it. Make sure you concentrate on slicing thru the spin-out at the bottom.

skunkyhead, once leaf damage is done, it's usually permanent and will not recover. Focus only on what the new growth looks like as to whether or not you took the right corrective action or not.

cya ~


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## stankydank420 (Aug 17, 2009)

Thank you UB. THe NPK ratio im useing right now is 6-50-30 2 times a week out of 4 waterings. Basically every other watering. Im pretty sure im bug free. I guess its off for some clearex. I hope a good flush with the clearex will get rid of the built up salts. Then I will start a watering cycle that includes the clearex. I dont wanna take out the rootball since I already transplanted it. The flower growth has been good so I really just want to focus on the health of the leaves for these last 4 weeks of flowering.


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## JoJo7119 (Aug 17, 2009)

Can any one tell me what may be wrong all the way to the right my other 2 seem more than fine my ph is 6.0 maybe a little lower and ive been using fox farm hydro veg nutes. ebb and flow watered 3 times a day for 15 min and i have an led so there no way that its too much light so if u guys have any suggestions let me know


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## skunkyhead (Aug 18, 2009)

Cheers Ub! Going to have to pick your brain one more time.... In week 6 of flower now. Would be safe to say that my new growth would pretty much only be bud leaf? Many cheers for your all your input


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## mastermatt (Aug 18, 2009)

Hi people,
ok i'm a grower with experiance and know how and i'm stumped.
The plants are in 6in rockwool in 4x8 trays. EBB FLOW 4X A DAY 15 MINS EACH CYCLE ONLY DURING LIGHTS ON CYCLE.
Two weeks into bloom with three part gh and liquid karma and bud candy the ph is 5.8 and the ppm is like 1300 1500 the plants looked great and i flushed them to trans to aggresive bloom and this is what thay did. I've never seen leaves do this curling up then down??????? I'VE HAD THEM FLUSH FOR 2 DAYS NOW AND THE PROBLEM IS ONLY GETTING WORSE. I DON'T WANT TO ADD ANY FERTZ RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THEY LOOK SO STRESSED. I DID RUN OUT OF THE BUD CANDY SO I GAVE THEM SOME MOLASSIS (IM SURE I SPELLED THAT WRONG) THE UNSULPHANATED KIND. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT MIGHT BE THE PROBLEM???? 
I'm hoping there overwatered and have taken them off water and wanted to know if anyone has seen this before or has an idea. LASTNIGHT WAS THE FIRST NIGHT WITH NO WATER, MY LIGHTS COME ON AT 9PM SO I'LL SEE WHAT THE GIRLS LOOK LIKE IN THE AM.
Thanks YOUR GUIDED HELP WOULD BE GREAT


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 19, 2009)

stankydank420 said:


> Thank you UB. THe NPK ratio im useing right now is 6-50-30....


OUCH! That is way too much P. You have just succeeded in creating a N and micro deficiency. You need a more balanced NPK. http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 19, 2009)

JoJo7119 said:


> Can any one tell me what may be wrong all the way to the right my other 2 seem more than fine my ph is 6.0 maybe a little lower and ive been using fox farm hydro veg nutes. ebb and flow watered 3 times a day for 15 min and i have an led so there no way that its too much light so if u guys have any suggestions let me know


I don't do hydro, but I do do botany - they look stressed, stunted. What is your NPK values? Also, many times an "aw shit" like this will not recover, so look to new leaf production to see what gives.



skunkyhead said:


> Cheers Ub! Going to have to pick your brain one more time.... In week 6 of flower now. Would be safe to say that my new growth would pretty much only be bud leaf? Many cheers for your all your input


Yep, with small fan leaves and single leaf production. Just remember, it's leaves that produce your bud, keep them healthy and green up to harvest.



mastermatt said:


> Hi people,
> ok i'm a grower with experiance and know how and i'm stumped.
> The plants are in 6in rockwool in 4x8 trays. EBB FLOW 4X A DAY 15 MINS EACH CYCLE ONLY DURING LIGHTS ON CYCLE.
> Two weeks into bloom with three part gh and liquid karma and bud candy....


So what's the real scoop? What's the NPK values that your plants are seeing? How's the root system?

UB


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## stankydank420 (Aug 19, 2009)

Thank you. I thought those spots were a magnesium problem. Now I see how it all plays together. Is there a perfected nutrient product for flowering out there? I would love to find the best NPK ratio for the whole flowering cycle.


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## tcoupemn12 (Aug 19, 2009)

is this moisture stress or burn? 





also in the back ground of this pic on lower growth (right side)





and this lil guy


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## skunkyhead (Aug 20, 2009)

Cheers again ub!  I'm doing my best to keep my girls happy.they are getting close to harvest. 3-4 weeks stab in the dark. Hate to see it all go to shit now!


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 20, 2009)

tcoupemn, moisture stress will show up as burn, leaf necrosis, etc.



skunkyhead said:


> Cheers again ub!  I'm doing my best to keep my girls happy.they are getting close to harvest. 3-4 weeks stab in the dark. Hate to see it all go to shit now!


Pretty plants make for pretty colas. Good luck!

Tio


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## tcoupemn12 (Aug 20, 2009)

was that too much or to little water?


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## romano (Aug 21, 2009)

UB, Can you think of any 'first signs' of problems other than the ones in your ditty. Us newbs hear alot of " learn to read your plants". Im tryng and learning ! I know when my leaves claw its most likely over fert., I think burnt tips is a secondary sign to over fert. I know when they droop its most likely the first sign of not enough water. Can you expand on this ?Give us a list of the most common signs? Thanks alot!!


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## stankydank420 (Aug 21, 2009)

tcoupemn12 said:


> was that too much or to little water?


Neither, thats nute burn. Time to flush.


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## tcoupemn12 (Aug 21, 2009)

i been flushin weekly guess i need to step it down but i only went half strengthish i think i was fertin to oftin


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## tcoupemn12 (Aug 21, 2009)

i just fed last night to damn it i ll flush tonight when the lights come on


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## tigerwolf (Aug 23, 2009)

i need some advice.. i have some ppp and some snow white, and this is the second round of growing them.. the first round i used miricle grow potting soil and the liquid fert,, everything looked ok untill the last 3 weeks of flowering. then the fan leaves started browning from the tips and then falling off.. i thought it may have been over fert.. so i flushed and no improvement.. when i researched it, the only pics that matched my problem were phosphorus deficency.. but its not deficient in phosphorus... so on the second round i didnt use the liquid fert just organic and i still have the same problem.. i have did soil and water tests and the ph is around 6 and all nutrient tests are in the right range... ventilation is great. temps are fine, and im not over or under watering..the only thing i can think of is i have a water neutrilizing system in my house that uses calcium carbonate aka calcite to neutrilize the water.. would that over time build up in the soil and cause the plant to not take up water.. the root systems seem underdeveloped... has anyone ever had the same problem... thank you for your time...


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 24, 2009)

romano said:


> UB, Can you think of any 'first signs' of problems other than the ones in your ditty. Us newbs hear alot of " learn to read your plants". Im tryng and learning ! I know when my leaves claw its most likely over fert., I think burnt tips is a secondary sign to over fert. I know when they droop its most likely the first sign of not enough water.


No, it's a SYMPTOM of too little moisture, water within the plant tissue. Your job as a grower is find out why the plant is not taking up (or retaining) sufficient moisture. It's nice that our plants talk to us when they're not doing well. It's our goal to "understand what they're saying", and that's not too easy at times. 

Good luck,
UB


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 24, 2009)

tigerwolf said:


> .. the root systems seem underdeveloped...


There is your problem. Why you have an underdeveloped root system is anybody's guess, it could be caused by many factors.


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## ronaldino (Aug 24, 2009)

UB! Just read through the post, Love it, lots of great examples and info. I wanted to throw my situation into the mix and see what you thought. I've got these plants they've been in 7gal pots for almost 3 weeks now. 

The new growth I was noticing on the plants was coming out wrinkled and crinkled. The edges of my leaves were curling a bit, not much spotting and I haven't fed them full strength nutrients at all. I transplanted and gave them 1/2 strength super-thrive B1. The next week (week 1) I brewed a batch of Tamashi Bokashi Organic Compost Tea and soon after I started noticing some ill effects. Signs of what looked to me like Iron Deficiency and micro-nutrient lockout.

I bought a pH probe and tested the soil and the probe was reading an average of 7.5 on all 35 plants. I know this was high and I figured the curling could have something to do with either hot soil or hot air/high light/heat stress conditions. I'm vegging them under 2000watts HPS for 18/6 with an additional 600HPS set to kick on after 6 hrs so for 12 hrs/day they get 2600W of veg time. I'm growing them up pretty tall so I immediatly pulled back the lights to help with the heat damage and started looking for advice on what to do about the high soil pH. Ive foliar fed them 4 times total. Twice with Neem+Foliar Nutrients and once with Organicide b/c I saw some bugs around my room and did it as a preventative. 

I was told by some to flush fully any old nutes and start again with a balanced system. 
I was told by others to fertilize in hopes that it would bring the soil down.
And I was told by others to try amending my soil with Garden Lime to buffer the pH

Alongside all these suggestions, I was recommended to foliar feed with Green Stay which has a ton of micro-nutrients. 
I decided to go with the garden lime although I was told it would affect the livelihood of the bokashi.

I took each plant out one at a time. I added 2tbs of Lime to the top soil of each plant and watered in de-chlorinated water pH 6.3-6.4 and gave each plant 3-5 gal depending on the size of the plant (trying to keep them on an even watering/feeding schedule). Now I know the effects won't be seen overnight or anything but it's been about 4 days now and the pH probe hasn't shown any signs that the pH of the soil is going down at all. Plants are still showing these iron deficient symptoms but seem to be improving after the Green Stay Foliar (hard to tell but i feel it's improving)

NOW comes the really confusing part of it all. I took my pH pen and I tested the runoff water of the last few plants I "lime/flushed" and the water that was pouring out was reading incredibly LOW, at 5.5. This did not make any sense to me, why would the water OUT be extremely lower than the water IN? 

Is it possible that the pH probe that I purchased is a bogus piece of equipment? 

Anyhow, I know these problems are often difficult to accurately diagnose and I'm doing everything I can to understand what's actually going on, but I thought I'd post my pictures anyways to see if you had any expert input.


----------



## LAX Skunky BwS (Aug 24, 2009)

tcoupemn12 said:


> is this moisture stress or burn?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
am i trippin or is you growing a plant in a zip lock bag? ... hahahaha


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## tcoupemn12 (Aug 24, 2009)

LAX Skunky BwS said:


> am i trippin or is you growing a plant in a zip lock bag? ... hahahaha


you ant trippin its in a tall skinny zip lock did not want to buy 1/2 gal gro bags.if you look at post 20 in my grow jornal you can see where i put 4 of them in a 3 gal bag and i had one left over i mant to tape it to light lock it but never did. + its doin shitty with all the burn im on an all water regimin now till they show hunger.


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 25, 2009)

ronaldino, I don't know where to start. You're throwing so much stuff at them, taking alot of ill advice, you're doomed bro. Start with the basics, keep it simple, don't add insult to injury with practices of adding lime to an already alkaline soil pH, etc. If you have to take the advice of others (alot of it not correct) then I suggest you stop growing until you learn the basics so you can empower yourself. This may sound harsh, but I mean, recommend some basic botany....what makes a plant tick. Gardening is easy, don't screw it up with alot of crap and stupid advice. 

The leaves don't look bad to me, but then again it's hard to tell under a HPS light. 

BTW, a soil pH of 7.5 is perfectly acceptable.

Using de-chlorinated water adjusted to a pH of 6.3 is a waste of your time. Soil is a powerful buffer. 

The amount of chlorine used in municipal water will do no harm to your plants. Letting your water gas off is another one of those paradigms that just won't die.

Good luck,
UB


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## Katatawnic (Aug 25, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> This may sound harsh, but I mean, recommend some basic botany....what makes a plant tick. Gardening is easy, don't screw it up with alot of crap and stupid advice.


Hear, hear!  I ignore a lot of advice I read on cannabis forums. If it sounds even remotely silly, it's bound to give insanely silly results; and not in any humorous way. If plants needed all the stuff people tell you they need, then why do they do so well on their own when left to Mother Nature? 

UB, what sites would you recommend for some good reading on botany? Doesn't have to be cannabis related; I want to brush up on basic botany itself. 



> The amount of chlorine used in municipal water will do no harm to your plants. Letting your water gas off is another one of those paradigms that just won't die.


Yep! If clorinated tap water was so bad for plants, then there wouldn't be such beautiful lawns and gardens surrounding us. Only someone who's more insane and OCD than I am would even entertain the thought of spending the ungodly costs of using "special" water on huge lawns and gardens!


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## tcoupemn12 (Aug 25, 2009)

Katatawnic said:


> Yep! If clorinated tap water was so bad for plants, then there wouldn't be such beautiful lawns and gardens surrounding us. Only someone who's more insane and OCD than I am would even entertain the thought of spending the ungodly costs of using "special" water on huge lawns and gardens!


great point!! 
i was letting water sit for a day but i only have one three gallon bucket and have to flush 10+gallons of media lol so it was imposable to flush all at once so if i have time i let 4 gallons chill but other than that it comes right out of the tap into the bucket nutes added ph corrected and into the plants. these chumps almost had me feelin guilty


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## ronaldino (Aug 25, 2009)

Thanks for the advice, even if it was a little harsh... and even though you really didnt' answer my question but instead took the time to make me feel like another "doomed" amateur. 

My plants have been improving since I added the lime. Could be a result of the foliar. I feel like I have a good idea of what I'm doing here but I was just curious why the runoff was so much lower pH than the water I put in. I probably did burn them a little early but I really don't think i'm "doomed." 
I also didn't do all those things people suggested, it's just what they suggested. I only did the lime because it acts as a buffer to either bring soil ph Up if it's too low or Down if it's too high. 

And they put a lot of chlorine in the water where I live once a month so I think I'm going to keep using my "waste of time" de-chlorinator.

I'm all about questioning the validity of things I learn about gardening. Which is why don't rush off and do everything Joe Schmo says is the right thing to do. So conversely, I have to ask, 

Why do you think de-chlorinated water is a waste of time?

When introducing living bacteria and beneficial microbes to a soil like with organic compost teas you have to use de-chlorinated water or microbes won't LIVE. So it would make sense that after you water them in, the microbes would die if you fed the plant unfiltered water.

P.S. I'm not doomed... and there really aren't many lawns and gardens where i live so...


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## Katatawnic (Aug 25, 2009)

tcoupemn12 said:


> these chumps almost had me feelin guilty


Oh yeah, I've caught myself "hanging my head in shame" after being told that I did this or that "wrong" when it's nothing that will hinder my plants' growth.... then I snap out of it and remind myself that it's forum hype; nothing to do with botany.  IMNSHO, many (if not the majority of) problems encountered by growers are caused by doing too much, not too little! All *any* plant needs to flourish is basic nutrients, water, light, air, pruning/topping if desired.... and a soothing lullaby sung to them nightly. 




ronaldino said:


> NOW comes the really confusing part of it all. I took my pH pen and I tested the runoff water of the last few plants I "lime/flushed" and the water that was pouring out was reading incredibly LOW, at 5.5. This did not make any sense to me, why would the water OUT be extremely lower than the water IN?


My guess would be because lime lowers pH, so there's a chance that your soil's pH is much lower than the water you put in; as in much too low. Just a guess, but it makes sense.



ronaldino said:


> Thanks for the advice, even if it was a little harsh... and even though you really didnt' answer my question but instead took the time to make me feel like another "doomed" amateur.


UB's approach is 100% no-nonsense, which is exactly what he was trying to tell you in his reply. His intent is never to make someone feel "bad" or "inadequate" etc.; only to help us help ourselves by reminding us that plants are plants, and the basics of *all* plants begins with basic botany. His remark about "doom" was in reference to all the varying advice on these forums, much of which is hype. Hence his constant suggestion to research some basic botany to learn about (therefore often prevent) problems rather than focusing only on symptoms of trouble in our cannabis plants after the fact. The more we learn about the basics of what plants need, the less we need advice from others at all.... greatly reducing the number of suggestions that are completely unnecessary, and all too often harmful to our precious plants. 



> And they put a lot of chlorine in the water where I live once a month so I think I'm going to keep using my "waste of time" de-chlorinator.
> 
> Why do you think de-chlorinated water is a waste of time?


As UB said, soil is a powerful buffer.I've not once had to adjust pH since I switched from hydro to soil, and I also live in an area that also heavily chlorinates. I'm not implying that one shouldn't have to adjust pH just because I haven't had the need, mind you.  My point is that soil does buffer many things, like pH. Mother Nature knows what she's doing. 

*EDIT:*
Had an "OOPS!" moment there.... I went from clorinated water to pH.  However, soil being a powerful buffer remains true whether it's clorine or pH. 
Also, de-clorinating water is just fine if it's personal preference. I personally consider it a waste of time, *for me*.

Out of curiousity, who says that you shouldn't use straight tap water with organic nutrients? Forums, or the nutrient manufacturers? (Truly curious; I don't use organic mixes, although I also don't use any "extra" stuff.)



> P.S. I'm not doomed... and there really aren't many lawns and gardens where i live so...


LOL! But I'm sure you've seen a few in your lifetime.


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## ronaldino (Aug 25, 2009)

Katatawnic said:


> LOL! But I'm sure you've seen a few in your lifetime.


LOL, I have seen a few in my lifetime and even some in my neighborhood but people do use a ton of water to have them. 


Katatawnic said:


> My guess would be because lime lowers pH, so there's a chance that your soil's pH is much lower than the water you put in; as in much too low. Just a guess, but it makes sense.


The soil probe tells me different, 7.5ish. I suppose it could be highly in-accurate but not likely to be THAT inaccurate. And it's my understanding that lime "buffers" pH so if it's low, it'll bring it up and if it's high, it'll bring it down. 



Katatawnic said:


> Out of curiousity, who says that you shouldn't use straight tap water with organic nutrients? Forums, or the nutrient manufacturers? (Truly curious; I don't use organic mixes, although I also don't use any "extra" stuff.)


It's my understanding that it's not necessary to use de-chlorinated water on bottled nutrient solutions but you DO have to use de-chlorinated water when brewing teas that include living microbes and beneficial bacteria. Even the trace amounts of chlorine found in tap water will greatly reduce the bacteria count of the brew. Yes you can still brew it and it will still have some beneficial elements to the tea but there won't be as much living microbes to aid in nutrient transport. 

I've been using this one type of tea called Tamashi Bokashi but there are lots of them out there.

I've seen the difference in the brews, tap vs filtered. De-chlorinated brews are foamier with actual fungus growing on the tea-bag. When brewed with tap water, the bags had no fungus and no foam. 

Anyhow, no hard feelings on the harshness, I'm not offended, just jokin' around.


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 26, 2009)

Katatawnic said:


> Hear, hear!  I ignore a lot of advice I read on cannabis forums. If it sounds even remotely silly, it's bound to give insanely silly results; and not in any humorous way. If plants needed all the stuff people tell you they need, then why do they do so well on their own when left to Mother Nature?




Exactly.



> UB, what sites would you recommend for some good reading on botany? Doesn't have to be cannabis related; I want to brush up on basic botany itself.


You'll have to do a search. Regarding the best read on botany, it's hard to beat Mel Franks books and they are cannabis focused. I have his 82 Grower's guide. Without question, he is a master gardener in all respects.



ronaldino said:


> Thanks for the advice, even if it was a little harsh... and even though you really didnt' answer my question but instead took the time to make me feel like another "doomed" amateur.


Unless you tell me what your daily activities are, I can only guess. And again, color means alot to me so the photos under HPS can't be used as a judgement tool.



> My plants have been improving since I added the lime.


Again, lime's affect is alkaline. Are you trying to raise the pH, because that is what you're doing.



> Could be a result of the foliar. I feel like I have a good idea of what I'm doing here but I was just curious why the runoff was so much lower pH than the water I put in.


Because soil is a powerful buffer, like I said. What is the pH of your runoff? pH adjusted water is for someone that has alot of time on their hands. 




> I probably did burn them a little early but I really don't think i'm "doomed."


I meant that in the context of taking folks' advice without understanding the shortcomings of your garden and the impact of their suggestions. For example, you're saying your soil's pH is 7.5 (alkaline) but you're doing exactly the opposite of what you should to bring it down to say.....6.5. Having said that, *IF* your meter is accurate and you're measuring your soil's pH like you should, then you need to take other measures. To repeat myself, cannabis is pH tolerant. pH only relates to elemental uptake, not leaf curling, etc. A pH of 7.5 is certainly in the range to grow healthy, productive plants. I would not bother to adjust a pH of 7.5, there are much more important issues to concern yourself with like producing and maintaining a healthy root system and lots of foliage.



> I also didn't do all those things people suggested, it's just what they suggested. I only did the lime because it acts as a buffer to either bring soil ph Up if it's too low or Down if it's too high.


No sir, lime has an alkaline affect. Dolomite is moderate in its affect and quicklime (hydrated) is radical. All will buffer the pH up, the former is a carbonate the latter a hydroxide, not sulfates.



> And they put a lot of chlorine in the water where I live once a month so I think I'm going to keep using my "waste of time" de-chlorinator.


Brita is the easiest and quickest to use if you choose to de-chlorinate your water. It also has a side benefit of removing bicarbonates. 



> When introducing living bacteria and beneficial microbes to a soil like with organic compost teas you have to use de-chlorinated water or microbes won't LIVE.


Who says? Have you ever done an analysis of the before or after regarding the microbe count, or you relying on a feeling or what someone says? I lived very near a water processing plant so the chlorine amines (or whatever they are called) were at their highest levels at my house as opposed to 40 miles at the end of the delivery system. I never had issues using tapwater, on cannabis or otherwise, and I am an organic gardener who always uses peat moss and manure compost.

Regarding this tea product, gotta a link for me?

BTW, you do understand that organic fertilizers are useless unless they contain the proper nutritional salts or are able to convert into such salts?

Good luck,
Tio


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## ronaldino (Aug 26, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Unless you tell me what your daily activities are, I can only guess. And again, color means alot to me so the photos under HPS can't be used as a judgement tool.Tio


I'll work on getting some better pictures.



Uncle Ben said:


> Again, lime's affect is alkaline. Are you trying to raise the pH, because that is what you're doing.


http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/mjgrow9f.htm

"Adjusting pH Of Marijuana Grown In Soil A good way to stabilize soil is to use dolomite lime (calcium-magnesium carbonate). Dolomitic lime acts slowly and continuously, so soil will remain pH stable for a few months. 


Dolomite lime has been used by gardeners as a pH stabilizer for many years. It has a pH that is neutral (7.0). When added to soil in the correct proportions, it will stabilize soil at a pH near 7.0."[/QUOTE]

This source suggests that Lime is neutral and will act as a stabilizer for soil pH.



Uncle Ben said:


> Because soil is a powerful buffer, like I said. What is the pH of your runoff? pH adjusted water is for someone that has alot of time on their hands.


Like I said before, runoff was 5.5, water in was 6.4




Uncle Ben said:


> To repeat myself, cannabis is pH tolerant. pH only relates to elemental uptake, not leaf curling, etc. A pH of 7.5 is certainly in the range to grow healthy, productive plants. I would not bother to adjust a pH of 7.5, there are much more important issues to concern yourself with like producing and maintaining a healthy root system and lots of foliage.


Then why are there charts like the one I attached that show the availability of most essential macro and micro nutrients to be in the range of 6&6.5. As you can see from the chart, Iron is mostly un-available at a ph of 7.5, and that's exactly the symptoms my plants were showing me, iron deficiency. 




Uncle Ben said:


> Brita is the easiest and quickest to use if you choose to de-chlorinate your water. It also has a side benefit of removing bicarbonates.


That's 100% OPInION sir, 
http://www.hydrologicsystems.com/ These guys crush Brita, (in my humble opinion)



Uncle Ben said:


> Who says? Have you ever done an analysis of the before or after regarding the microbe count, or you relying on a feeling or what someone says? I lived very near a water processing plant so the chlorine amines (or whatever they are called) were at their highest levels at my house as opposed to 40 miles at the end of the delivery system. I never had issues using tapwater, on cannabis or otherwise, and I am an organic gardener who always uses peat moss and manure compost.


No I have never done a microbe count and I don't know how I would. I've seen brews with tap vs. filtered and they look TOTALLY different, like night and day. The most clear difference was with the filtered water, there was actual fungus growing on the bag (hydro-hotel) that was holding the Bokashi. On the unfiltered tap water, the color and smell of the tea were about the same but there was no foam on the top and no fungus growing on the bag. A clear sign (to me) that there was NO Life or less life in the tea. 





Uncle Ben said:


> Regarding this tea product, gotta a link for me?


No link, at least I haven't been able to find one. Attaching some pics. The directions clearly state the importance of using de-chlorinated water.





Uncle Ben said:


> BTW, you do understand that organic fertilizers are useless unless they contain the proper nutritional salts or are able to convert into such salts?


Not really following you here, could you please elaborate.


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## tcoupemn12 (Aug 26, 2009)

where did you get that stuff?


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 26, 2009)

ronaldino said:


> > Like I said before, runoff was 5.5, water in was 6.4
> 
> 
> If the runoff is accurate, then yes 5.5 is too acidic. Why? Is it a peat moss based mix without an added buffer? Most potting soils land around 6.5 by design.
> ...


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## Katatawnic (Aug 26, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> You'll have to do a search. Regarding the best read on botany, it's hard to beat Mel Franks books and they are cannabis focused. I have his 82 Grower's guide. Without question, he is a master gardener in all respects.


Thank you, UB! I knew I could do a simple search, but was wondering what you'd recommend.  I'll check out this author/book ASAP; really want to brush up on botany basics. 



> Again, lime's affect is alkaline. Are you trying to raise the pH, because that is what you're doing.
> 
> *[....]*
> 
> No sir, lime has an alkaline affect. Dolomite is moderate in its affect and quicklime (hydrated) is radical. All will buffer the pH up, the former is a carbonate the latter a hydroxide, not sulfates.


I knew something felt weird when I posted my reply about lime bringing down the pH! I read lime, my mind registered lemon juice, and that's all she wrote.  Here I make sure I don't offer any advice unless I know what I'm saying isn't hype or even completely wrong, but I screwed up on that one.  Sorry for that, guys!


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## ronaldino (Aug 26, 2009)

uncleBen said:


> If the runoff is accurate, then yes 5.5 is too acidic. Why? Is it a peat moss based mix without an added buffer? Most potting soils land around 6.5 by design.


I used a mix of Roots Organic Soil http://aurorainnovations.com/soil.html
And yes the first two ingredients are Coco Fiber and Peat Moss. I cut each bag with about 1/3 bag of Light Warrior
http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/products_soils3.html

What sort of "buffer," 



uncleBen said:


> I thought you said your soil's pH was 5.5 based on the runoff? Where are you getting this 7.5 value?


I'll go over this again. I used two testers. One pH probe to test the soil, (see image1). And a pH pen (image2) to test the water.

The soil probe gave me an average reading of 7.5 in every container. I even tested the soil that was leftover in one of the bags and it read 7.5.
Now the pH pen which I use to measure water told me the water I was putting IN was 6.4 and the water coming OUT was 5.5.
Make sense???



uncleBen said:


> Plants get their nutrition requirements met based on the uptake of salts. I don't know how much clearer I can get. IOW, what is the NPK and micro values of your teas?


NPK= 3.5-3.3-1... but it's on the photo of the Bokashi Bag



tcoupemn12 said:


> where did you get that stuff?


They sell it at almost every hydro store where I live.

I did clearly notice an insane increase in new growth after I watered it in the first time. Next time though I'm going to wait til the plants are larger with bigger root masses b/c I think introducing them so early scorched my leaves a bit. The microbes help aid in nutrient transport. Basically they more or less supercharge their uptake of available nutrients. My plants may have not been ready for it when I introduced them so next time I'll wait til they've been settled in their larger pots possibly just before flower.

This company is pretty young and issues with their labeling has kept them off a lot of shelves except for in the nor-cal area but Bokashi is a pretty commonly known type of beneficial compost. I'd heard great results from multiple people who've used it and I was in a good place to try some new stuff. 

Bokashi

All in all, over the course of the past week and a half, since I first noticed what I noticed, my plants have been improving tremendously. New growth is flattening out and maintaining a more even shade of green. Older larger fan leaves look only slightly gnarly which won't change but they're functioning and new growth is promising. 

The whole soil pH balance thing is still confusing me but I could have one... or two bogus testers.


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## vapourman (Aug 27, 2009)

alright there mate ive got the same problem leaves are lookin dropped my plants are slightly smaller but av a good amount of foliage im using aflood and drain system plants are 2 wks into flowerin how often should i be floodin the system


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 27, 2009)

ronaldino said:


> I'll go over this again. I used two testers. One pH probe to test the soil, (see image1). And a pH pen (image2) to test the water.
> 
> The soil probe gave me an average reading of 7.5 in every container. I even tested the soil that was leftover in one of the bags and it read 7.5.
> Now the pH pen which I use to measure water told me the water I was putting IN was 6.4 and the water coming OUT was 5.5.
> Make sense???


No. I would trust the runoff, just make sure it is latent, meaning you've been tipping the pot for a while and you're testing the very last drops out of the drainholes. 



> NPK= 3.5-3.3-1... but it's on the photo of the Bokashi Bag
> 
> They sell it at almost every hydro store where I live.


A little low in the K department, but that's a fairly balanced food.



> All in all, over the course of the past week and a half, since I first noticed what I noticed, my plants have been improving tremendously. New growth is flattening out and maintaining a more even shade of green. Older larger fan leaves look only slightly gnarly which won't change but they're functioning and new growth is promising.
> 
> The whole soil pH balance thing is still confusing me but I could have one... or two bogus testers.


 I don't trust soil testers so I don't use them. To properly measure soil pH use de-ionized water in any proportion to the soil sample (it contains no ions so volume is moot), put soil and water into a clean jar, shake, and when it settles stick yo probe in. Calibrate your pH pen with both solutions (4.0 and 7.01) before testing.

Katatawnic, we all have our share of brain farts, hah! I now call them "senior moments"....sounds better.


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## ronaldino (Aug 27, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> A little low in the K department, but that's a fairly balanced food.


It's not really meant to be used as a complete fertilizer, just for introducing beneficial microbes. Use it in place of regular feeding schedule once or twice in late veg/pre-flower times to boost the root system. I may start a grow journal for my next cycle and track the results more closely.



Uncle Ben said:


> I don't trust soil testers so I don't use them. To properly measure soil pH use de-ionized water in any proportion to the soil sample (it contains no ions so volume is moot), put soil and water into a clean jar, shake, and when it settles stick yo probe in. Calibrate your pH pen with both solutions (4.0 and 7.01) before testing.


Thanks so much for this nice discussion. I'll definitely heed some of this advice. I think I've lost faith in these soil testers myself. Even though we fundamentally might disagree on a couple points, I really appreciate your honesty & no-nonsense attitude. Good luck to you!


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 28, 2009)

Enjoy it to, and good luck to you!

Speaking of organics, I just planted a Merlot grapevine as a replacement to a dead Syrah and as a backfill drench I used a witches brew consisting of a mychorrhizial product called MycoApply, 3/4 tsp./gallon, Medina Soil Activator, Medina Hasta Gro (humates, microbes, 6-12-6 NPK) and Superthrive. We'll see. A row of Merlot vines I put in using the MycoApply as a backfill drench are probably the healthiest I've ever seen and that's after I found them half dead and white, tangled up in this awful mess still in the packing bags, 95F heat! Took 'em for dead but put them in anyway this spring. Whether or not the phenomenal growth and health can be attributed solely to the MycoApply, I doubt it.

UB


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## garciavega (Aug 28, 2009)

needs pics to reference back to some of us are to medicated to read and dislexic but you know your stuff thanks for the help


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## Katatawnic (Aug 28, 2009)

Seems like you were able to read this thread, else you wouldn't be able to say whether or not he knows his stuff.


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## hostile (Sep 1, 2009)

UB, please help my plants have a severe issue that has me stumped. All of the leaves are starting to completly die. They seem to be dying back to the stem but the stems are still green.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 1, 2009)

hostile said:


> UB, please help my plants have a severe issue that has me stumped. All of the leaves are starting to completly die. They seem to be dying back to the stem but the stems are still green.


Tell me what your day to day activities are and then I might have a stab at it.


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## hostile (Sep 1, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Tell me what your day to day activities are and then I might have a stab at it.


UB, water every 2-3 days, ph never above 6.5, ppm averages about 800.

My room temp has been around 95 degrees with a few days above 100.

I have gave them nothing but straight water for the last few feedings.

I left for 3 days came back and my pots were still wet. Im thinking I have a root issue.

one more thing my water temp was reaching the 90's also so I started to fill my container half way then filling it the rest of the way before watering to keep the temp down. All the leaves along the buds have died all the way to the bud.

Please help I dont want to lose this crop.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 3, 2009)

hostile said:


> UB, water every 2-3 days, ph never above 6.5, ppm averages about 800.
> 
> My room temp has been around 95 degrees with a few days above 100.
> 
> ...


Pot still wet? Yep, it's a root issue. Not enough roots left to wick moisture out of the soil and the loss of leaves just exacerbates the problem (your "wicking" transpiration unit is gone). Pop a plant out and take a look at the rootball. If the roots are bad, sorry to bring you the bad news but there is no hope for a recovery.

Water only when the pot feels light to the lift, but, do not allow the soil to get to the point to where the plant looks stressed i.e. droopy leaves.

Good luck


----------



## hostile (Sep 3, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Pot still wet? Yep, it's a root issue. Not enough roots left to wick moisture out of the soil and the loss of leaves just exacerbates the problem (your "wicking" transpiration unit is gone). Pop a plant out and take a look at the rootball. If the roots are bad, sorry to bring you the bad news but there is no hope for a recovery.
> 
> Water only when the pot feels light to the lift, but, do not allow the soil to get to the point to where the plant looks stressed i.e. droopy leaves.
> 
> Good luck


UB, I did pull one and the roots extended all the way to the outside of the soil although not thick they really dont look any different for any other plants I have done. I agree there is an issue do you think not letting my water sit for 12-24hr period could also have something to do with this? I also checked my run off my ph 6.53 ec 2100 and ppm 1200. I have been giving them straight water for about 3 feedings now. I appreciate your imput. Hos

Ps: the pots only atay wet for 2-3 days and I never water until they are light never droopy just light.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 4, 2009)

hostile said:


> UB, I did pull one and the roots extended all the way to the outside of the soil although not thick they really dont look any different for any other plants I have done.


Do they look like photos #8 & 10 in this thread? https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html 
If not, then that still may be your issue. The leaves are not being supported for some reason - insufficient water uptake, abuse of high P foods, insect issues, etc. Could be multiple things, one or more.



> I agree there is an issue do you think not letting my water sit for 12-24hr period could also have something to do with this?


No. What is your water source and why are you letting it sit around? Ya gotta ask yourself as you go thru life, "is this a feeling, or is this a fact." Enough of the philosophy. 



> I also checked my run off my ph 6.53 ec 2100 and ppm 1200. I have been giving them straight water for about 3 feedings now. I appreciate your imput. Hos


And what were you giving them before?



> Ps: the pots only atay wet for 2-3 days and I never water until they are light never droopy just light.


You know long my pots stay "wet". For about 8 hours, and that's in a 3 or 5 gallon pot. When they are ramping up, they require a liter twice a day. I have the abundant leaf mass to wick off alot of soil moisture. Side bennie is it produces alot of bud too.

Tio Bendejo


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## hostile (Sep 4, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Do they look like photos #8 & 10 in this thread? https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html
> If not, then that still may be your issue. The leaves are not being supported for some reason - insufficient water uptake, abuse of high P foods, insect issues, etc. Could be multiple things, one or more.
> 
> No. What is your water source and why are you letting it sit around? Ya gotta ask yourself as you go thru life, "is this a feeling, or is this a fact." Enough of the philosophy.
> ...


My roots are not quite as thick as #10 but I am also using 10 gal pots these plants are 5 1/2 feet tall and about 8ft around.

Also I was told and read in the growers bible you let your water sit 12-24 hours to evaporate chlorine and other crap out.

before straight water they were getting around 800-1000 ppms 6.5ph

no bugs or mold issues period.

I will shake one of the pots out tonight to see what the main root ball looks like.

I appreciate your time and help. 

Hos​


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 5, 2009)

hostile said:


> My roots are not quite as thick as #10 but I am also using 10 gal pots these plants are 5 1/2 feet tall and about 8ft around.
> 
> Also I was told and read in the growers bible you let your water sit 12-24 hours to evaporate chlorine and other crap out.​




I never have and was at the start of the water distribution system where chlorine is at its highest levels.

10 gallon is a huge pot unless you have the foliage and a massive root system to require its use. When you pop a plant out, not only look at the color and structure of its root system, but smell the soil. It should smell sweet, not rancid. Also, by this time that plant should be rootbound as reflected by spin-out. If not, downsize to a 3 - 5 gallon pot next time. I have a suspicion that in your case "less is more" regarding pot size. I think you're trying too hard and providing exactly the opposite of what you're needing to achieve regarding plant health.



> before straight water they were getting around 800-1000 ppms 6.5ph


Of what? What's the NPK value?



> I will shake one of the pots out tonight to see what the main root ball looks like.
> 
> I appreciate your time and help.
> 
> Hos


My pleasure,
Ben


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## eyeco (Sep 9, 2009)

Hi every one and thaks for what looks like a really cool site!.

Ok here is the prob. This is my first eva grow ( and my first time in a forum! strange hoe the to go togeather!.) 

I am growing Big Budda Blue Cheese and Ressin seeds Bubblegum lavender cross.

I started the seeds in jiffy plugs ( small peat filled bags dont know if you use them in the states ( i from the uk) did ten seeds 9 germed and within 24 hours i had small shoots! i used rhitzotonic from canna at 4ml per liter in spray form in the propy and roots flew out of the lil buggers temp 24. ( by the way i can not recomend ritzotonic enough its amazing), all went well as you can see by the pics at end of post after only 4 days the roots where bursting out of the sides of the net bag the jiffy plugs are in, So i potted thm in to pint cups, And then made the normal noob mistakes, over watered and over fed, the long and the short is i have repoted in to 7.5 liter pots reducced feed to 1/4 streangth and got a proper watering plan ( every 3/4 days seems good) But thr plants have piled on so much root mass and leaf but no streach at all! plants are 3.5 weeks old with really chunky stems roots thick as a pencil lead coming out the bottom of potts ( new thick and white v healthy) but no vertical growth to match v short stocky plants compered to others i have seen on this site if anyone can help i will be very greatfull. (Just want to know if i shud start again from scratch.)

Ok Here the skinny.
Growing in Canna Coco
CoCo A+b Neuts 2ml per liter now 1/4
Ritzotonic 4ml/liter
Canazyime 2.5/liter

Started under 125w cfl 24 hours a day for 2 weeks then 400w wide spec hps at 1 meter from top of plants 24 hours.

Temps:Room 22'
:under lights 24-27 degs
Ph: 6.5 in the medium and 6 in my neuts.

In uk we tend to use Cf than ppm and mine about 1.6/1.9

i have 1 extractor 2 fans. 

In the pics you can see the damage my over feeding and water stress has done but think i fixed that but shud i just star again?.
opps i cant post pics as it asking for a url and my pics not posted. Sorry for wasting your time!!!.

Good look with all your ladys!!. Eyeco


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## Katatawnic (Sep 9, 2009)

eyeco said:


> But thr plants have *piled on so much root mass and leaf but no streach at all*! plants are 3.5 weeks old with really chunky stems roots thick as a pencil lead coming out the bottom of potts ( new thick and white v healthy) but no vertical growth to match v short stocky plants compered to others i have seen on this site if anyone can help i will be very greatfull. (Just want to know if i shud start again from scratch.)


Do you have any idea how many people would be extremely envious of your problem?


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## eyeco (Sep 9, 2009)

Katatawnic said:


> Do you have any idea how many people would be extremely envious of your problem?


Sorry if this seems like i just havin a blonde moment! but i know the hole root system thing been good and healthy but what about the lack of vertical growth? shudnt they be taller after 3.5 weeks? i watched a few grow vids and the plants look way taller and more fine in structure.

Think i goin 2 loose a few with my earlyier watering debarcal but you live and learn!.

PS: Sorry if i got this wrong but read a amazing post by i think by yourself about the attitude of a police officer towards the medical use og weed, Great bit of writing, i have been a home and residetial care giver for 10 years with the NHS and have been asked so many times by my service users if i could arange this for them, i wish i could of obliged them this small comfort but...well you know the score. I have nursed during palative and end of life senarios where this would have been a blessing as they would not have the soparific affects of the huge amounts of opiate based pain relief can upset family and can rob them of comunication when they need to say the most. Not to mention the discomfort that constipation that gos hand in hand with such drugs. Whoooa Sorry way of topic and think the great root growth down to Rhitzotonic not anything i have done!. 

Be good and if you cant be good be carefull!.


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## Katatawnic (Sep 9, 2009)

No, they shouldn't be taller, so long as their environment is good. Growers strive for as little stretching as possible, which is why you constantly read about putting the lights as close as possible to the plants. Tight node spacing is indicative of good genetics and/or good light placement; most often combined. The foliage looks great, and you say the root development is also. That would indicate to me that your plants are just fine, and the lack of vertical growth you expected is due to good genetics and/or lighting. 

BTW, just to be clear, I wasn't laughing *at* you in my last post.  Had I not read so much around here about tight node spacing before my first seedlings grew, I would have wondered is something wasn't right as well. Nothing wrong with being cautious!

Yes, that was my post. Thank you.  I agree with all you said; it blows my mind that such strong narcotics and other poisonous drugs are preferred, not to mention so heavily pushed! I take it you don't live in a MMJ state? If you want to discuss this further, we can do it in the other thread, so that we don't hijack this one.


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## eyeco (Sep 10, 2009)

Katatawnic said:


> > No, they shouldn't be taller, so long as their environment is good. Growers strive for as little stretching as possible, which is why you constantly read about putting the lights as close as possible to the plants.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## hsbalan (Sep 10, 2009)

HERE ARE SOME PICS DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM COULD BE AND IF ITS FIXABLE???


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## eyeco (Sep 10, 2009)

I aint no pro fella but id say bye bye and start again. Sorry, Could be a load of things mate, list what you been doin and we will see if we canr fix it for your next try. I only a novice myself and made all the noob mistakes myself the plan is to learn and not do it again!. The best advice i can give is start with good genetics (from seed so u can see the whole show from start to finish, and buy the best) and when in doubt the biggest lesson i have found is dont start pouring stuff all over your plants at the first sign of a yellow leaf the best thing is do nothing and watch!. 

Good luck.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 11, 2009)

hsbalan said:


> HERE ARE SOME PICS DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM COULD BE AND IF ITS FIXABLE???


A dozen things could have gone wrong. Have you checked the root system? I suspect it's gone.


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## atxbudgrower (Sep 11, 2009)

hey guys my baby isnt looking so good she has some weird spots and certain parts of the leaves are dried up and crusty looking any ideas what it could be? im thinking it could be a ph problem but im using soil and the ph when i test it its around 6 im using those cheapy litmus papers so its not completely accurate


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## elgalloloco (Sep 13, 2009)

I've got three plants in full flowering mode and I don't know how I did it but I've flooded them and the soil is now packed down and muddy. 
the soil's still wet, it seems like the roots aren't getting any air. 
what can I do? 
I thought about taking them out of their pots and puting them in with new soil. 
anything you can suggest?


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## newbganjafarma (Sep 13, 2009)

hey this is a great thread going on here.. im going to posting up my pics of my plants also im starting to notice a bit of a yellowish out line on some of them on the leafs but over all they area green and looking good but for sum reason im starting to see like a yellowish outline on leafs if n e 1 knows what could b rong or what i need to do that wud mean alot guys.. im starting to get worried.. i will post a pic of them also today so u can get a better idea of wha could b rong.. but if n e one knows what im talking about already please i wud love to hear from u guys thnx..


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## jamexican686 (Sep 13, 2009)

I was wondering how long it takes for your plant to recover from over-watering they were discolored at the old leaves so i added nutes now they r just droopy now so i changed the cycle to three times a day every 3 for 1/2 and a day later they r still droopy, but at least the color is coming back


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 14, 2009)

elgalloloco said:


> I've got three plants in full flowering mode and I don't know how I did it but I've flooded them and the soil is now packed down and muddy.
> the soil's still wet, it seems like the roots aren't getting any air.
> what can I do?
> I thought about taking them out of their pots and puting them in with new soil.
> anything you can suggest?


Repot them in good well aerated soil. Hate to be the bearer of bad news but when root rot sets in it's usually the end of the root system and the plant. IOW, there has been an invasion of fungus spores which are feeding on the root cells. You must kill those spores or at least stop them from expanding. You could pop the plant out, trim off dead roots, repot into aerated soil and see what happens. Suggests that you didn't and don't have much foliage or this would not be an issue. I like a tight soil myself, it's less maintenance for me, BUT, I also grow plants with a huge amount of foliage that is retained until harvest. Gives me more bud ya know.  

(Also insures that too much water applied is quickly wicked out of the pot.)



jamexican686 said:


> I was wondering how long it takes for your plant to recover from over-watering


See the above. 

Good luck fellers,
Tio Bendejo


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## jamexican686 (Sep 14, 2009)

no the plant has just become root bound im using a coco and hydroton medium with bato buckets, so i think the tips r curling down because i planted them 6 days ago


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 15, 2009)

jamexican686 said:


> no the plant has just become root bound im using a coco and hydroton medium with bato buckets, so i think the tips r curling down because i planted them 6 days ago


If the leaves are green (including the tips), I wouldn't worry about it.

Being rootbound can stunt the plant though.


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## slimjjoe (Sep 15, 2009)

do these plants have "cuping"? how can i fix it? 

thanks


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## maryjan (Sep 16, 2009)

> ```
> 
> ```





Uncle Ben said:


> You'll have abundant foliage and the pot will need watering often. The condition and mass of the foliage pretty much indicates the same with the root system.
> 
> tryinghard, thanks bro. It's helped out alot of people over the years. It's pretty basic stuff but sometimes we lose sight of the forest for the trees.
> 
> UB


 dose plant moisture stress look like this


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## Scravagor (Sep 16, 2009)

i cant post new thread so im posting here my 3rd set of leaves and on are kinda scaly to the touch i have no idea on the humidty,could it being from to low?


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## badness (Sep 17, 2009)

maryjan, my vegging plants look like that and always do. i have never figured out how to fix so hopefully uncle ben will answer.


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## rusto (Sep 17, 2009)

ive been getting yellow blouches on my plant. ive been using aquaglobes so i doubt it could be a watering problems. the yellowing has showed up on some of the newer branches. and my lowest leaves have nearly witherd. thanks for any help you can offer to my problem.


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## DocBud (Sep 20, 2009)

hey Uncle Ben!

I read the whole thread, through page 34. I also tried to find the info elsewhere, but this is my first grow, and I'm not too confident in what to do.

Strains: 2x Blue Dream, WW, Jack Herrer, Flo
Grown from clones, put in Hempy buckets on 09/15.

Medium: 4 perlite 1 part vermiculite
Temps: 71-83 
RH: 30-50
Water PH: 5.8-6.1
Nutes:weak FF gro/bloom. About 400ppm added to RO.
Light 1000watt MH 18/6

I'm watering once per day until the roots reach the resevoir at the bottom, as instructed by the Hempy people.

The plants started drooping:
Just before watering.






moisture meter prior to water, half way into bucket.







Meter all the way to bottom:






The whole lot:






They do seem to perk up a few hours after watering, and they are definitely growing.

Do they need more, or less water?


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 20, 2009)

DocBud said:


> Do they need more, or less water?


They need a smaller pot.


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## DocBud (Sep 20, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> They need a smaller pot.


Yes sir!

If someone....not me, but someone like me....was to be a stubborn ass and not put them in a smaller pot, would watering them more often help until the roots reached the bottom?

Of course, I'm going to put them in smaller pots tomorrow.....just curious. 

I know you've heard it before, but I've been reading non-stop about growing weed for the last month....my wife thinks I've become totally obsessed (she's right) and with all the books and thousands of pages on the NET, I'd have to say your thread here is worth 80% of the other stuff out there.

Had I found this first, I'd have saved untold amounts of time.

Thank You!


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## Katatawnic (Sep 20, 2009)

DocBud said:


> If someone....not me, but someone like me....was to be a stubborn ass and not put them in a smaller pot, would watering them more often help until the roots reached the bottom?
> 
> Of course, I'm going to put them in smaller pots tomorrow.....just curious.


Quite the opposite; it's very easy to over water when using a pot too large.


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## DocBud (Sep 20, 2009)

Katatawnic said:


> Quite the opposite; it's very easy to over water when using a pot too large.


Even in perlite? No soil, just perlite and a little vermiculite.


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## Katatawnic (Sep 20, 2009)

Can't answer that, as I've not used just perlite. I am now, however, using coco in my newer pots, and it's "virtually impossible" to over water. (Many say impossible, but nothing is. lol)


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## DocBud (Sep 21, 2009)

Katatawnic said:


> Can't answer that, as I've not used just perlite. I am now, however, using coco in my newer pots, and it's "virtually impossible" to over water. (Many say impossible, but nothing is. lol)


That's what they say about perlite too....Uncle Ben has the right answer...smaller pot to start means the roots will reach the moisture faster, less stress to the plant.....happy all around.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 22, 2009)

DocBud said:


> Yes sir!
> 
> If someone....not me, but someone like me....was to be a stubborn ass and not put them in a smaller pot, would watering them more often help until the roots reached the bottom?


Not sure how that plays into anything. Overwatering is more of a concern in large pots. Shouldn't have a problem in perlite and vermiculite, all depends on the grade. You need to use a hydroponic food that contains 16 essential elements.



> I know you've heard it before, but I've been reading non-stop about growing weed for the last month....


You should be reading non-stop about what makes a plant tick, regular plants. Weed is weed, give it the same treatment that you'd give an indoor grown tomato , pepper, ficus, etc. For example, my basic principles written on page one applies to most plant material with the exception of stuff like cactus, epiphytes, etc. There's way too much useless hocus pocus on the internet regarding growing cannabis.



> my wife thinks I've become totally obsessed (she's right) and with all the books and thousands of pages on the NET, I'd have to say your thread here is worth 80% of the other stuff out there.


Thanks. I just try to shoot past the hoopla and go straight common sense regarding all of the factors involved in growing indoor plants.



> Had I found this first, I'd have saved untold amounts of time.
> 
> Thank You!


You're welcome, and.....

Good luck,
UB


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## Grimbsy (Sep 22, 2009)

Very helpful, thank you very much


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## LIBERTY MEDICAL (Sep 23, 2009)

thanx vary nice lots of help


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## wyteboi (Sep 23, 2009)

hey UB does a bigger pot = bigger flowers ??? I been wondering for a LONG time , i just never knew _who_ to ask... (that would possibly know) i mean i know what im doin but i just wondered if there is a restriction on small pots, I *know* roots are just as important as water but does that mean smaller pots dont let the roots get to their FULL potential ? My own opinion and experience says pot size does not matter (specially after i just seen a Gypsy *monster* in a shot glass) But i think its a really good question. 

ps Thank you for being there for all of us UB ........ you have been an *Asset *to site !


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## wyteboi (Sep 23, 2009)

DocBud said:


> Even in perlite? No soil, just perlite and a little vermiculite.


Just perlite and vermiculite only ? hows that goin ? thats kinda hydro aint it ?


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## DocBud (Sep 23, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> Just perlite and vermiculite only ? hows that goin ? thats kinda hydro aint it ?


Well, if you had asked me 4 days ago.....I'd say it's a little sketchy. If you ask me today, it's amazing. I was going to re-pot this afternoon, per Uncle Ben's instructions.

However, it is quite obvious that the roots have hit the resevoir....the plants are looking fantastic and have all kinds of new growth.

I believe this method can be considered passive hydro, or "shallow water culture."

It's easy, that's for sure. It's inexpensive....and I'm told the yields are top notch. We'll see.


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## RemeberMe (Sep 23, 2009)

This is a good question and one I've just started to work out. 

When I grew many years ago I found that waiting till the roots come out the bottom to be the best indication of when to repot. I'd start out in large dixie cups then graduate to 1/2 gal milk cartons (paper, these worked crazy good!) then after several months the plant would be about 1.5' tall and I'd switch to 5 gal containers. Seems the tap root probably grows to be as long as the plant is tall. Of course it's best to keep the nutes at a 20-20-20 with plenty of magnesium and other micro nutes as well when vegging to ensure good root growth and overall plant developement.

But with the new way of flowering after just 1 month of vegging I think the pot size matters more than ever. I tried to move up the pot sizes a little too quickly (root mass was barely grown to the size of the 1 gal pot) and wound up overwatering a few when I switched to a 3 gal pot (don't think a 5 gal is necessary with the plants being so small with this speed of flowering). I had to re-pot a few with dry dirt and I hope the moisture in the root ball gets carried out into the new soil. I'll know in a day or so if this helps them recover. This is done with Super Soil which worked well for me in the past. It seems to be a good PH (around 7) though next time I'm trying coco.

But lesson learned. I'll stick to the root ball determining when the plant needs to be transplanted and I'll check next time before I do re-pot.






wyteboi said:


> hey UB does a bigger pot = bigger flowers ??? I been wondering for a LONG time , i just never knew _who_ to ask... (that would possibly know) i mean i know what im doin but i just wondered if there is a restriction on small pots, I *know* roots are just as important as water but does that mean smaller pots dont let the roots get to their FULL potential ? My own opinion and experience says pot size does not matter (specially after i just seen a Gypsy *monster* in a shot glass) But i think its a really good question.
> 
> ps Thank you for being there for all of us UB ........ you have been an *Asset *to site !


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 23, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> hey UB does a bigger pot = bigger flowers ???


Only as it relates to the potential of producing more root mass, which sustains more foliage thru increased water and salts uptake, which produces more flowers, etc.



> I been wondering for a LONG time , i just never knew _who_ to ask... (that would possibly know) i mean i know what im doin but i just wondered if there is a restriction on small pots, I *know* roots are just as important as water


Roots are the plant unit that provides for the uptake for water. 



> but does that mean smaller pots dont let the roots get to their FULL potential ?


Got a 9 size shoe and 12 size foot? If you do, something tells me you aint taking too many steps without fallin' down. 



> My own opinion and experience says pot size does not matter (specially after i just seen a Gypsy *monster* in a shot glass) But i think its a really good question.


It's all relative. Begs the question, what would his plants' production been like in double the size of the pot, all things considered (no issue of root rot, etc)?



> ps Thank you for being there for all of us UB ........ you have been an *Asset *to site !


Thanks for the kind words.

Good luck,
Tio


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## Blue Moonshine1 (Sep 23, 2009)

looks good to me just slow it down a lil bit water every 4-5 days... when the roots get dry and you water em they reach for growth.. which of course is good cause if your roots are growing so are your plants.... dont under water... im high man... who knows


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 23, 2009)

RemeberMe said:


> This is a good question and one I've just started to work out.


Bingo! There is no black and white. 

You've learned that there is an art of when to upcan, that's a big step to becoming a master gardener. Prime time is just when there is bit of root spin-out. Too early and the rootball falls apart. Too late and you've stunted the plant (compared to being in a larger pot) plus you have the issue of dealing with the spin-out issue. Spin-out can be dealt with by scoring the rootball vertically with a knife to mechanically induce root branching behind the cuts you made during the scoring process.

There is no stress, no setback to a plant that has a decent intact rootball by popping it out of the pot to check on the rootball's condition/health/mass.


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## Nemo7788 (Sep 24, 2009)

Uncle Ben gets Nemo's stamp of approval, two thumbs and big toes up! You've been very helpful in my endeavors and I appreciate it!


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## wyteboi (Sep 24, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Thanks for the kind words.
> 
> Good luck,
> Tio


Thanks for the help man.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 24, 2009)

Grow hard!


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## badness (Sep 27, 2009)

ub, just got some stuff called microkote from the people that make spinout. supposed to do the same as spinout just has micro nutrients in it. i just coated a container last night and transplanted so i'll let you know how it goes in a week or two (if interested).


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 27, 2009)

badness said:


> ub, just got some stuff called microkote from the people that make spinout. supposed to do the same as spinout just has micro nutrients in it. i just coated a container last night and transplanted so i'll let you know how it goes in a week or two (if interested).


I would definately be interested. I've heard of the product. Interesting that is not only terminates root tips but provides micros too.


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## ghosty87 (Sep 27, 2009)

Hello Uncle Ben, 
I see you have a lot of post to reply to, I have or had at some point during this grow almost all the problems you have addressed in your original post. First off im growing random bag seed which is pretty unpredictable. My main issue is with my "tall plant" it is 10 weeks into flowering has tons of milky trichomes and none of the hairs (pistils) are red which i think is odd. As I have grown 2 other times indoors and outdoors. Also i just found one male flower on one of the smaller buds which means I could be flowering too long? I have three plants 10 weeks into flowering. The tallest one has large calyxes looks kinda sativa (as i know the term) and has shown THC since like week 4. She then had nutrient burn or something, leaves curling. I had to go away for 2 weeks during weeks 4-6 of flowering and had a buddy of mine take care of my plants. He didnt do a very good job as I had 6 and 3 went hermy. The other two plants one of which is showing a decent amount of THC and has small-medium calyxes. The last plant of mine the largest as far as amount of bud just started showing THC at week 9 and a half. The 2 i just mentioned just started recovering from what i believe was a PH problem and nutrient lock out. There leaves started to get very cripsy and turned to dust when i touch them. Even the leaves in the buds.

Now I know they are in only 1 and 1/2 gallon pots. I think this may be the cause, but I do not know. I have to water every day. Do you think my entire growth may be stunted due to the small pots? The plants do drink the water i feed them PH'd at like 6.3-6.6. I am thinking the plants probably suffer from heat stress caused by hot spots from the HPS. 

Here are some pictures from 2 weeks ago, the plants have changed a great deal actually much more TH, but I believe they are recovering from nutrient burn/lockout and maybe to much caclium. I think i compounded the problem by givin the plants to much epsom salts and dolo lime. I have viewed the trichomes on each with a pocket microscope. The 2 in the back seem almost done if not done already. I know the stress and problems i have must of added some weeks onto the flowering.

"sigh I always over do the correction of plants problems and end up with even more problems" I

Here are some pictures. The front plant is the "largest one with small calyxes and just started showing THC." The one behind it is the "medium" plant that showed the most crisping. The one in the white pot is the "tallest or one with no red hairs yet and most visible THC".

Anyway since I dont really know how long flowering was suppose to take and I am not sure what kind of strains I have anyway you can tell if i should keep going? Take into account the "tall one" is reallly frosty now.

Any input you can give me about what I did wrong I would appreciate.

Ill try to get some more recent pictures for you. My dang camera's battery wont charge.

Thanks


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 28, 2009)

ghosty87 said:


> .....My main issue is with my "tall plant" it is 10 weeks into flowering has tons of milky trichomes and none of the hairs (pistils) are red which i think is odd.


That's cause it's not ready. Sativa stuff.



> As I have grown 2 other times indoors and outdoors. Also i just found one male flower on one of the smaller buds which means I could be flowering too long?


When you get alot of "bananas", it's time to harvest. Could be a stress issue too, or just Mexican bagseed genetics. Equatorial and Asian stock tends to hermie easily.



> There leaves started to get very cripsy and turned to dust when i touch them. Even the leaves in the buds.


Moisture issue. Most likely you over fertilized. Has nothing to do with pH. I see the pH thingie used around these parts as an excuse for not understanding other issues.



> Now I know they are in only 1 and 1/2 gallon pots. I think this may be the cause, but I do not know. I have to water every day. Do you think my entire growth may be stunted due to the small pots?


Good possibility. Only one way to find out, pop one out and see. A 4'+ plant would greatly benefit from a 3 or 5 gallon pot. Production is related to the amount of healthy root and foliage mass your plants have.



> Here are some pictures from 2 weeks ago, the plants have changed a great deal actually much more TH, but I believe they are recovering from nutrient burn/lockout and maybe to much caclium. I think i compounded the problem by givin the plants to much epsom salts and dolo lime.


How much did you give them?


> "sigh I always over do the correction of plants problems and end up with even more problems"


That is pretty typical. Folks think this and that, listen to the wrong people, have not quite figured out the dynamics of their problems, throw more stuff at their plants and end up doing more harm than good. Cannabis is very easy to grow, but one "aw shit" and it usually doesn't recover. Expect those severely cupped leaves to stay as they are. 



> Anyway since I dont really know how long flowering was suppose to take and I am not sure what kind of strains I have anyway you can tell if i should keep going? Take into account the "tall one" is reallly frosty now.


That's your call. Harvest when new calyx/pistil development comes to a crawl, about 80% of the pistils are red or brown, and the calyxes plump like they are full of seeds. Some use the color of trichomes as another criteria of when to harvest. If you see alot of trichomes which are turning amber, it may be time to harvest. 

Good luck ~


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## ghosty87 (Sep 28, 2009)

Thanks for the response,

I gave each plant about 3-5 tsp of fine powerdered dolomatic lime on the top surface of the soil. I then watered the first night with a gallon of water with like a table spoon of epsom salt, I read in another forum to do this. Seemed like a lot. It then said to water with 1-2 tsp of epsom salt for a few waterings after that until I see it get better. I also used distilled water for a few waterings and everything went down hill.

2 weeks ago I posted since that was when the problems really were bad. I recieved help from people on rollitup. They told me to stop the distilled water since its PH is 7.0 and i did. I started using spring water and Ph'd it to 6.2-6.5. It seems to have helped. I also started using Molasses as recommended by people on this forum which also seemed to have helped. I think the plants may be nutrient depreived by this point since they are in such small pots and thats why the molasses helped. Apparently its a carbo load and has some calcium, iron, and Magnesium as well.

I was using the foxfarm complete nutrient line. Grow big, big bloom, tiger bloom, open sesame, beastie blooms, cha ching. I think the last 3 are way to powerful. Last grow i used them in half the amount and got good results. This grow i used them in 1/4 the amount recommended.

Also i bought a soil PH test kit recently with N-P-K test also. My soil apparently has a PH of around 7. And is deficient in N-P-K. I still havent addded nutrients to the ones that are showing more THC. The one that has small calyxes is still getting nutes every other day.


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## DocBud (Sep 28, 2009)

Good Morning all. I hope everyone had a nice weekend. I did, and my plants did too.

I do have a question:

I'm running Hempy buckets....things are going well, plants are thriving, minimal trouble...mainly just that I burned a lower fan leaf with nute-splash, and I've got a couple brown tips on some lower leaves, but mostly things look perfect.

Here's my question: the water temp in the bottom of the buckets is room temp....about 78-85 degrees hi/lo. I'm musing on whether or not the plants are going to get enough oxygen in the future when they are really large, so I'm wondering if I should use H2o2?

I'm running Fox Farms trio, feeding at 1/2 strength 2x per week, watering with PH'd water and CalMag in between feedings.

Will H2o2 mess up the bacteria?
Is there a better product?

Thanks in advance.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 28, 2009)

ghosty87 said:


> Thanks for the response,
> 
> I gave each plant about 3-5 tsp of fine powerdered dolomatic lime on the top surface of the soil. I then watered the first night with a gallon of water with like a table spoon of epsom salt, I read in another forum to do this.


Ouch! Just what I thought and the reason why I asked - you burned your plants with too much salts. Quite easy to see too. By taking your friends' advice, you have ruined your plants. It's quite clear they don't know what makes a plant tick. Epsom salts, the noob's magic cure-all, eh? Sheesh! Based on all those salts, anything over 1/2 tsp. of epsom salts per gallon of water is too much. BTW, do you know the symptoms of a Mg deficiency? By adding stuff the plant does not want or need, you just toasted them creating a nutrient antagonism issue: http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

I would flush the soil, give them a mild drench of a balanced fertilizer like 1/2 tsp./gallon of a food designed for soil until harvest, Peter's is a good brand....and hope for the best. A balanced 20-20-20 with micros would work fine. If you don't know or understand the NPK ratios of the salts your plants are getting from all those sources, then you're in big trouble.

Good luck,
UB


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 28, 2009)

DocBud said:


> Will H2o2 mess up the bacteria?
> Is there a better product?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Yes, it will kill bacteria but it all depends on the strength. I don't do buckets but would think that if you have the right mix of air and water at the root zone, you won't need H2O2.

I would think that 85F would support the growth of bacteria, mold, fungi, etc.


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## ghosty87 (Sep 28, 2009)

I actually am still flushing since I over did the magnesium 2 weeks ago. The plants are still alive just taking a lot longer to grow now. Its a real pain in the ass since i have to be done by the 15th of October. Which means I will have 12 weeks of flowering time.

Tonight ill try to take some New current pictures. The pictures i had were from 2 weeks ago when they were really hurting.


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## DocBud (Sep 28, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Yes, it will kill bacteria but it all depends on the strength. I don't do buckets but would think that if you have the right mix of air and water at the root zone, you won't need H2O2.
> 
> I would think that 85F would support the growth of bacteria, mold, fungi, etc.


Sounds good. If it ain't broke, dont' fix it. Right now, things are going good, so I'll do nothing but give low doses of nutes every other watering.

Next time, I'll start 'em off in smaller pots.


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## JAH87 (Sep 28, 2009)

Mr Ben, I have been reading your complete thread, and feel i have learnt quite a lot. After Reading many books, and after feeling comfortable, i am now attempting my first grow.
Everything has been going really well. 4th week into flowering, medium is canna coco. Using A+B plus cannazym. Was using just this till now. I am now using the canna boost and lots of my plants (mainly indica) which have plenty of foliage are now budding strong and cant get enough feeding. 

A couple of my sativa plants are growing strong, not as much foliage compared to my others but are strong. Since the boost and increased levels of nutes the newest top leaves around the main top bud are now leaf cupping and rolling downward and inwards on themselves. They dont look at all dead, maybe a little dry but are severely cupping.

After thinking that i am over boosting them a little bit with the nutes although are strong (as you said. Nutes and water ratio to foliage etc. Think i must have a salt build up.

I want to save this plant as it does look gd, just want to confirm what to do. 
Was going to flush with pH corrected tap water, for a 5 days or so (or when i think they are ready for nutes again) and then giving them a dosage i think is adequate which will have to be less compared to the other indicas. Will the leaves come back from the curling or will new leaves just develop instead???

Also can you give me flushing advice, if it is even necessary? 
I heard if you flush using normal water for 10days or so, the plants start to wilt and i thought this would effect the end result of the buds... So i was going to cut the stalk when ready and then submerse the stalk in a beaker of water with an air stone so it quickly takes up the water and supposedly can flush the plant nicely in 3 days or so before any problems can occur.

Is this recomended? I really wasnt sure what to do about this step considering some buds or areas of the plant could be ready before others are ready to be harvested.

How do you go about flushing and harvesting?

Sorry if this message is a bit all over the place, but i have so much to ask considering you have experience and all books i read arent too helpful when it comes to this stage.

Thank you

JAH


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## cub3rt5x (Sep 28, 2009)

hello, since this seems to be the authoritative curly leaf thread, i've noticed a little droopies over the last day or 2. i'm 99% sure its not over fert since we don't use any...we just used tigerbloom for the first time tonite. i'm not too sure from the symptoms, i would guess underwatering since they are good sized..we water them every other day. here's a video to check out, you'll see the droopers. i tried to make it small, its about 4mb

www.cub3rt5x.com/ladies.avi

for info they are under 3 600w lumatek hps vented system

any tips or comments are appreciated, first grow here so i'm like a nervous parent 


thanks riu and uncle ben especially for this crushingly informative thread


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## ghosty87 (Sep 28, 2009)

Hello again Uncle Ben,

Here are some pictures i just took with my phone camera. Please refer to my last 2 post on this thread for my questions and such. Anyway i think you answered them, but if you can see if there is any change hopefully these plants are getting better from the nutrient burn and etc...


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 29, 2009)

JAH87 said:


> Everything has been going really well. 4th week into flowering, medium is canna coco. Using A+B plus cannazym. Was using just this till now. I am now using the canna boost and lots of my plants (mainly indica) which have plenty of foliage are now budding strong and cant get enough feeding.


Hi, glad you enjoy the thread. First things first. Since I don't use "cannabis specific foods", I can not totally relate to your issues. If you stick to botany regarding NPK/micros and the frequency and amount of salts relative to the plant's processes and size, then we can talk apple to apples regarding plant nutrition. I have seen more gardens ruined by noobs following charts, "advice", and being attracted to ads and fancy labels, etc. rather than learning what makes a plant tick.



> After thinking that i am over boosting them a little bit with the nutes although are strong (as you said. Nutes and water ratio to foliage etc. Think i must have a salt build up.


This is a perfect example. The word "nutes" is meaningless to me. Would that be a total salt content of 3-69-2? 11-23-59? You must strike a happy medium between not enough salts (mainly N) which will stunt a plant and too much which will do more harm than good. Same with all the other factors such as light. You must find the light saturation point whereby any more bleaches out the leaf's chlorophyll. This is personal gardener's issue, it is not black and white.



> Was going to flush with pH corrected tap water, for a 5 days or so (or when i think they are ready for nutes again) and then giving them a dosage i think is adequate which will have to be less compared to the other indicas. Will the leaves come back from the curling or will new leaves just develop instead???


1. You're guessing. Just try it and if it doesn't work, you'll know better next time. Keep a journal.

2. Leaves most likely will not uncurl, damage has been done. If they stay green then they are still capable of photosynthesis, and that's all that matters. Pay attention to the condition of new output.



> Also can you give me flushing advice, if it is even necessary?


Flushing is a myth. There's recent thread on this.



> I heard if you flush using normal water for 10days or so, the plants start to wilt and i thought this would effect the end result of the buds...


It will. Anybody that has an inkling of plant nutrition knows that if you deprives a plant of proper nutrition thereby inducing premature leaf drop, you will lose out on potential production, it's just common sense. You should keep the leaves healthy and green until harvest for best production. If you're getting leaves (especially bud leaves) that dry up, are crispy, gritty, then you've used too much salts aka "nutes".



> So i was going to cut the stalk when ready and then submerse the stalk in a beaker of water with an air stone so it quickly takes up the water and supposedly can flush the plant nicely in 3 days or so before any problems can occur.


Whatever floats yer boat mah man.



> How do you go about flushing and harvesting?


Aint got the time bro. Buy Mel Frank's Insiders book, lurk, read posts drafted by those that know their chit.



cub3rt5x said:


> hello, since this seems to be the authoritative curly leaf thread, i've noticed a little droopies over the last day or 2. i'm 99% sure its not over fert since we don't use any...we just used tigerbloom for the first time tonite.


Here we go again. What is the NPK, frequency and amount of application? If you're not using any foods, where are your plants getting their essential elements? BTW, don't mean to sound difficult, but I don't care about cute product names and the A+B+C drills. I can help, but you must speak my language, which is horticultural.



ghosty87 said:


> Hello again Uncle Ben,
> 
> Here are some pictures i just took with my phone camera. Please refer to my last 2 post on this thread for my questions and such. Anyway i think you answered them, but if you can see if there is any change hopefully these plants are getting better from the nutrient burn and etc...


Howdy, lookin' better. Like I said above, all you can do is look at the new growth, read your plants. They will tell you if you're on the right track or not.

Good luck fellers.....


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## cub3rt5x (Sep 29, 2009)

sorry i didn't elaborate on the tiger bloom because these signs were present before the first time we ever used it. i used .5 cups for a 12 gallons.. (recommended is 2-3 tsp/gallon its 2-8-4) we're soil, just added it to the water before watering). most of the pots have plenty of moisture down low tested with a meter(i know you're not a fan, but i'm using it to learn), so i assume its over, not under watering. thanks for your time


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 29, 2009)

cub3rt5x said:


> sorry i didn't elaborate on the tiger bloom because these signs were present before the first time we ever used it. i used .5 cups for a 12 gallons.. (recommended is 2-3 tsp/gallon its 2-8-4) we're soil, just added it to the water before watering). most of the pots have plenty of moisture down low tested with a meter(i know you're not a fan, but i'm using it to learn), so i assume its over, not under watering. thanks for your time


I'm not following you. You're in soil but mixing up 12 gallons of a drench containing a 2-8-4 food? The best indicator of when to water is easy - after you do a thorough watering, lift the pot and make a mental note of its weight. When the pot feels light by lifting it, it's time to water. 

BTW, the Tiger Bloom may induce leaf drop, that's not enough N to sustain and retain leaves. The more the leaf drop, the more the losses regarding potential bud production. If you see premature leaf drop, substitute a high N food until it stops.

Just to give you a heads up about some of the bullshit you find in this industry, Fox says "This is an ultra-potent, fast-acting, high-phosphorus fertilizer with just enough nitrogen to sustain healthy, vigorous green growth during flowering." Begs the question, if it's "ultra potent" why do they recommend 2-3 tsp./gallon? Most labels recommend no more than 1 tsp./gallon, but then again, they contain a higher amount of NPK, which means you're getting more bang for your buck - i.e. 20-20-20, 20-10-20, 10-30-20. Another heads up - they recommend the same dose for foliar feeding. You foliar feed at the rate of 3 tsp./gallon and you'll have a severe case of foliar burn. Use 1/2 the recommendeded rate for foliar feeding.

Good luck,
UB


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## cub3rt5x (Sep 29, 2009)

yes we have a big rubbermaid deal that sits out to evap all the chlorine, and we added the nutrients into that before we watered last nite. however nice that was the first time we used it, and i had seen the problem before i assumed it was overwatering (droopy, not curled up)

thanks i'll watch for problems with the fertilizer making leaves drop, but the only way i 'feed' them is in the water we give them, is there a better way to do this with soil since if i'm overwatering its hard to feed them more? the original medium is ocean forest by fox farm.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 29, 2009)

You're trying too hard. Use tap water without the evap drill, add your fertilizer based on plant growth and vigor, water when the plant needs it etc.


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## smooth like peanut butter (Sep 29, 2009)

so for overwatering/ fertilizatizing what is the best remedy for a 3 week clone...? re-pot with new soil ?


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 30, 2009)

smooth like peanut butter said:


> so for overwatering/ fertilizatizing what is the best remedy for a 3 week clone...? re-pot with new soil ?


Yes, re-pot into fresh soil removing all of the lower demised leaves and burying the "trunk" up to the first leafsets remaining.


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## tattooedgod (Sep 30, 2009)

uncle ben 
i could use some help my plant is 2 weeks into budding and the leaves r wilting i think still a newb. they might be cupping. it has been grown with 6 cfls putting out 1400 lumens each in a home made grow box. i dont know if its heat,over/under watering. i dont know pics to come.


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## JAH87 (Sep 30, 2009)

Mr Ben! Thank you for your guidance. 
I will check the myth thread on flushing.
Considering im using a different type of feed. I will have to work out and do a little more reading. But for the time being everything is going well...
Thanks again!


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 30, 2009)

JAH87 said:


> Mr Ben! Thank you for your guidance.
> I will check the myth thread on flushing.
> Considering im using a different type of feed. I will have to work out and do a little more reading. But for the time being everything is going well...
> Thanks again!


Glad things are working out your way!

Have fun,
Tio


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## bender420 (Oct 1, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> 3. High Light - yes, its true, you can give our faves too much light. Cannabis does not receive full sun from sunrise to sunset in its natural state. It is shaded or given reduced light levels because of adjacent plant material, cloudy conditions, rain, debris and dust collection on the leaf surface, twilight periods of early morning and late afternoon, and light intensity changes caused by a change in the seasons. Too much light mainly serves to bleach out and destroy chlorophyll as opposed to causing leaf cupping, but it often goes hand-in-hand with high heat for indoor growers. Again, back off on the light and concentrate on developing/maintaining an efficient and robust root system. Keep in mind that all but equatorial material receive less light during flowering than during the vegetative stage.
> 
> Uncle Ben



This was very helpful. I have never read this before, and it really helped me determine the problem I have. 

Thank You.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 1, 2009)

bender420 said:


> This was very helpful. I have never read this before, and it really helped me determine the problem I have.
> 
> Thank You.


Yep, think outside of the box. Most folks give their plants exactly the opposite of what they need for optimum growth. After the "you can't give a plant too much light" paradigm comes the usual drill of giving their plants more light during flowering, bass ackwards of what actually happens in nature. Other than purely equatorial genotypes, cannabis gets far less light during flowering than during its vegetative phase. 

Bottom line? Find the point of light saturation for your plant and maintain light levels just below that point. For me, using the typical forum crude and inaccurate _watts/s.f._ drill, it would be about 33w/s.f. based on my light setup which is gonna be different than the next guy's.

Back during the days of ADPC and then CW and OG, the "kewl folk" would brag about attaining light levels of 100W/s.f., as if it would increase production (which it won't). It was nothing more than inexperienced noob talk, stoner macho chest beating. Not only is that ridiculous regarding plant requirements, it's rather silly regarding "buying light".....very inefficient and wasteful.

*"As light intensity is increased, eventually an intensity is reached above which light no longer is the factor limiting the overall rate of photosynthesis. We say that a process is 'saturated' for a particular reactant when adding more of it does not increase the rate, just as a sponge becomes saturated with water when it can't hold any more. At the light saturation point, increasing the light no longer causes an increase in photosynthesis."

*http://www.marietta.edu/~spilatrs/biol103/photolab/saturati.html

The only way you can increase photosynthesis with light levels above a plant's light saturation point is with an increase in CO2. 

Good luck,
UB


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## DocBud (Oct 2, 2009)

Hola Tio Bendejo!

I need a no bullshit answer on something and I know you're just the guy to give me one!

In the flowering room, how dark does it have to be? My light cycle is from 9pm to 9am....in order to deal with the high daytime temps we've been having, along with the low nighttime temps.

There are no direct leaks of light, but the ducting from the fans "glows" just a little. Not enough to read by, but a lot like a dark night, where you can see a bit.

My theory is that outdoors it's not pitchblack all the time, and at times can be quite bright with the moon, etc. 
Other people say, "one flash of light and you've got hermies," or "if it's not pitch black your plants won't flower," etc.

So, can you help me out here bro?


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## Roland (Oct 2, 2009)

hahaha ... I had someone tell me the same thing ... 1 pinhole makes hermies ....... I don't think that's what makes hermies .... 

I'm trying to force a female into making "pollen sacks" now ! it's been sitting in daylight all day and a HPS street light all night for three months ..in flower stage ......... no hermie yet ......... and btw under near 12 hr full moon cycles too ....if does make male pollen sacks .... I'll let u know


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## badness (Oct 2, 2009)

hey ub,
the microkote seems to be working better than the smartpots (fabric pots for root pruning) (did a comparison) even though the smartpots are drying out faster. only week two so i'll keep u informed.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 3, 2009)

DocBud said:


> There are no direct leaks of light, but the ducting from the fans "glows" just a little. Not enough to read by, but a lot like a dark night, where you can see a bit.


Hola! Yeah, like Roland said, I wouldn't worry about it.



badness said:


> hey ub,
> the microkote seems to be working better than the smartpots (fabric pots for root pruning) (did a comparison) even though the smartpots are drying out faster. only week two so i'll keep u informed.


Interesting! I just addressed the two products here: https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/230302-10-000-watt-grow-29.html

It's great that you're doing a comparison.

Good luck,
UB


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## cubragmad (Oct 6, 2009)

Over-fertilizing - the most common cause of leaf cupping aka leaf margin rolling, leaf margin burn, and leaf tip curl/burn is the overzealous use of too much plant food in relationship to factors such as plant size, vigor and rate of growth. The first unit of a plant to show moisture stress is the leaf at its margins and/or tips, reflected by margin rolling (cupping) or burning. Sometimes copper colored necrotic spots show in the leaf also. A hard, crispy feel to the leaf frequently occurs as well, as opposed to a soft and cool feel of a happy leaf. When you have a high concentration of salts in solution (or in the root medium) compared to lower salinity levels found in the plants tissue, water is actually drawn out of the plant across the root gradient in order to fix the ppm imbalance. IOW, this is a natural, osmotic response that serves to equalize salinity levels on both sides of the roots epidermal gradient. Back off on the amount and/or frequency of plant food. Too much plant food can also burn the roots, especially the sensitive root tips and hairs, which then creates another set of problems such as nutrient deficiencies. A note for the bio folks - as soil dries, the concentration of the remaining salts rises further exacerbating the problem. Leach (flush) your pots once in a while to get rid of excess salts.

High Heat - the plant is losing water via its leaves faster than what can be replaced by the root system. The leaf responds by leaf margin cupping or rolling (up or down) in order to conserve moisture. A good example is reflected by the appearance of broad-bladed turf grass on a hot summer day, high noon, with low soil moisture levels - the leaf blade will roll in and the grass will take on a dull, greyish-green appearance. Upon sunrise when moisture levels have returned to normal, the leaf blade will be flat. Lower the heat and concentrate on developing a large, robust root system by practicing sound plant culture. An efficient and effective root system will go a long way to prevent heat induced leaf dessication and leaf margin curling by supplying sufficient moisture for good plant health. One short episode of high heat is enough to permanently destroy leaf tissue and cause a general decline in the leaves affected, which often occurs to leaves found at the top of the plant located near HID lamps. The damaged leaf (usually) does not recover, no matter what you do. Bummer in the summer. One can only look to new growth for indications that the problem has been corrected.


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## mcap77 (Oct 7, 2009)

Yo Uncle Ben I got a quick question. This is my first grow and i have a solid seedling going right now, it is about 5 days old. If you can see in the pic the tips of the razor leaves seem to be rolling under the leaf. I suspect it is a watering issue, but I am not sure if it is too much or too little water. Thanks for the help.


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## GibsonIconoclast (Oct 8, 2009)

Just a quick question... should I be very worried if i've lost 6 lower main fan leaves to nitrogen deficiency in my first 3 weeks of flowering?
I'm using Oneness by Humboldt nutrients, 5-9-4


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## badness (Oct 8, 2009)

hey ub, 
just an update on the micrkote vs. the smartpots. so far the container w/ the micrkote is almost a quarter size bigger than the smart pots. even though the smart pots dry out faster they are not as healthy as the mk pot. interesting. 
been try'n to follow your advice with all my fuckups. been chang'n alot of my bad habits and try'n to read the plants. but one question. if the new leafs during early budding are starting to cup downward and slow down on growth but showing no signs of tip burn or leaf tips pointing down what would that be. what shows first w/ overfeeding, tip burn or leaf cupping? having a hard time reading plants if they are overfed or underfed. i am feeding way less than my overfeeding days but wondering if too much. thanks.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 9, 2009)

GibsonIconoclast said:


> Just a quick question... should I be very worried if i've lost 6 lower main fan leaves to nitrogen deficiency in my first 3 weeks of flowering?
> I'm using Oneness by Humboldt nutrients, 5-9-4


I wouldn't lose any sleep over it but the fewer the healthy fan leaves retained, the less the production. If the 5-9-4 is not sustaining healthy leaves, then you need to switch to a food that will, like a 20-20-20, 9-3-6, 7-3-3 etc. It's a no brainer, once you wean yourself off the forum paradigms and cute labels and return to the basics - botany.

UB


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 9, 2009)

badness said:


> hey ub,
> just an update on the micrkote vs. the smartpots. so far the container w/ the micrkote is almost a quarter size bigger than the smart pots. even though the smart pots dry out faster they are not as healthy as the mk pot. interesting.


That is interesting. Thanks for the update.



> been try'n to follow your advice with all my fuckups. been chang'n alot of my bad habits and try'n to read the plants. but one question. if the new leafs during early budding are starting to cup downward and slow down on growth but showing no signs of tip burn or leaf tips pointing down what would that be. [


It can be a heat event. Has happened to me often and once it does, it never rights itself.



> what shows first w/ overfeeding, tip burn or leaf cupping? having a hard time reading plants if they are overfed or underfed. i am feeding way less than my overfeeding days but wondering if too much. thanks.


This isn't gonna help much, but it's really your call regarding trying to balance all cultural factors. If your plants are bulking up rapidly like during the stretch, then needless to say they are gonna _*require*_ more food. I use that word alot, cause that's what it's all about - giving your plants what they require but also knowing when you've reached the saturation point where "more is less". Most problems are grower related, folks try to push their plants in hopes of getting more production which always leads to less due to the "aw shit" factor encountered. I've been growing all kinds of plant material for decades and it never ceases to amaze me how fast something can grow WITHOUT my help regarding foods. Of course I do organics and they can go a long way. Some of my best yields have been by using a soil rich in organic foods which usually produces really well from start to finish without any additional salts (fertilizer).

Stay free,
UB


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## DamnJailBird (Oct 10, 2009)

what do i do inorder to make my plant bush up? its only 5wks old


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## pimporplayer101 (Oct 13, 2009)

aye uncle ben. would u happen to be living in the bay area ? i think i've met you before with my friend tai back then. i dunno if its the same mr. ben. hahah. just curious.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 13, 2009)

pimporplayer101 said:


> i think i've met you before with my friend tai back then. i dunno if its the same mr. ben. hahah. just curious.


Tell your friend Tai that Uncle Ben's fluffs up mo betta.


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## goldilocks007 (Oct 15, 2009)

hi my leaves have turned yellow and black on thea edges 3wks into flower and realised i had gone over 12/12 and not turned my extractor over to 24hr could this have caused the problem
thanks
very worried mother


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## all4one1fourall (Oct 15, 2009)

UB: Excellent stuff. I like the " just the basics" approach and "less is more". Too many people get lost in the mechanics of growing when they sould just let it grow and be patient, and learn to enjoy the ride.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 15, 2009)

all4one1fourall said:


> UB: Excellent stuff. I like the " just the basics" approach and "less is more". Too many people get lost in the mechanics of growing when they sould just let it grow and be patient, and learn to enjoy the ride.


Too many people get caught up in the vendor hype, forum mystique and romanticism. It's a weed.....don't screw it up with alot of crap it doesn't want or _require_.

UB


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## pimporplayer101 (Oct 16, 2009)

haha so your the same mr ben.? because he lost contact with you he was tryna reach you.


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## DocBud (Oct 17, 2009)

Medium: Hempy bucket 4/1, Perlite/vermiculite.

PH: meticulously maintained at 6.2 lately.

Watering: when pot feels light.

Nutes: FF trio, less than full dose, plus 
Canna boost. PPM 800-1000

Stage of growth: day 20 flower

Temps: 70-82

RH: recently spiked up due to rain......60-70. Was at about 40 before. Problem fixed yesterday.

4 of my 5 plants are thriving, no detectable problems. This plant is having trouble. Leaves are darker green than the others, old growth has the "claw" new growth is curled under. No yellowing, no signs of burn that I can tell, except for splash burn on a few lower leaves.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 17, 2009)




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## goinforbroke (Oct 18, 2009)

my leaves are curled under and I have not been able to figure out the problem for along time. If I do not give water the plant wilts but it does not change the leaf cupping. Any ideas? Also can my plants take night temps areound 55? Will it hurt the plant? I am in cold weather climate and the plants are just starting to have these temps. They are well into flower.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 18, 2009)

goinforbroke said:


> my leaves are curled under and I have not been able to figure out the problem for along time. If I do not give water the plant wilts but it does not change the leaf cupping. Any ideas? Also can my plants take night temps areound 55? Will it hurt the plant? I am in cold weather climate and the plants are just starting to have these temps. They are well into flower.


Temps are relative regarding photosynthesis. If you have a 75/55 during flowering, that's fine. It will slow things down a bit compared to being 10* higher but will not hurt the plant. In fact, Mel Franks has cited studies that lower temps during flowering along with lower RH increases THC production in cannabis. 1982 edition MJ Insiders Growers Edition.

If the leaves are green and healthy, then you're good to go.


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## goinforbroke (Oct 19, 2009)

When I ran a space heater it seemed to start killing or drying the leaves that were in its radius. I have put a smaller heater now but I think it will just keep the temps at maybe 60 and above. Thanks for the advice.


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## Dr. VonDank (Oct 19, 2009)

OK----Looks like it's time once again to put the light on the "eagle-clawing" and what it's caused from.

I have read and seen alot of pics posting the same question------" my leaves are cupping and turning down but I'm not seeing signs of burning"---what is this?????

Nutrient burn shows on the tips of leafs---------99% caused by excess Nitrogen or Iron or both.

Downward Cupped leafs without leaf tip burn--AKA-"EAGLE CLAWING"------99.9% caused by excessive combined ppm load without nitrogen or iron burn. The only exception to this is if the plants are showing as dark bluish-green, then nitrogen is magnifing this condition. Potassium silicate will help with the NITROGEN FIXATION and new growth should resume after a couple of consecutive PPM reduced watering's----hope this helps.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 19, 2009)

goinforbroke said:


> When I ran a space heater it seemed to start killing or drying the leaves that were in its radius. I have put a smaller heater now but I think it will just keep the temps at maybe 60 and above. Thanks for the advice.


You may have baked them with radiant energy (infra-red) or lowered the RH of the ambient air too much.


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## goinforbroke (Oct 19, 2009)

I am not doing hydro it is a soil grow. I water every third with nutes. I thought maybe low nitrogen so I added more fish emulsion to nutes about ten days ago. I also think I had a mg deficiency With possible nutrient lockout so I used epsom salts about 1 month ago. I do not overload though I don't think. My ph fluctuates a little between 5.5 and 7. I have well water and it seems a little hard to control. What is potassium fixation mean? Also what is potassium silicate? Am I doing the right things or do I still need the silicate? A little off topic should I ph with the nutes in the water or without? 

The rh I think dropped fast after the heat and it is a baseboard heater so it hit about a 3 ft. long section of the room. 1 plant dried out completely in about 2 days.


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## licker1314 (Oct 20, 2009)

i was wondering if someone could help i just started growing and durring the night the leves are strait and everything is good and perky but when i set it out side the leaves and brances droop they just hang there the color stays the same but i have started to notice that the lower leaf tips are turning yellow and brown just the very tip help please cause i have no idea what to do


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## mustangmaddi (Oct 22, 2009)

I'm new and hoping you can help. I just started my first set of plants in Colorado. They were doing great until I decided to buy an 'automatic waterer' to try before I go on vacation. What a disaster! The plants all got totally soaked! They are in my basement under a 1000 watt lighting setup. After mopping up the mess I have noticed one plant (see pic) has yellow tips coming out on a set of leaves. The other plants have not manifested this yet. Is this overwatering? Can I leave the plants alone to 'dry out' a bit? I'm handicapped and needed to find a way to curtail the climbing steps, so I'm hoping I can get the automatic watering fixed, but if this is going to mean the demise of my plants maybe I should just give up. Please let me know if this is salvageable.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 22, 2009)

mustangmaddi said:


> I'm new and hoping you can help. I just started my first set of plants in Colorado. They were doing great until I decided to buy an 'automatic waterer' to try before I go on vacation. What a disaster! The plants all got totally soaked! They are in my basement under a 1000 watt lighting setup. After mopping up the mess I have noticed one plant (see pic) has yellow tips coming out on a set of leaves. The other plants have not manifested this yet. Is this overwatering?


Could be. You'll have to check the condition of the root system for confirmation.



> Can I leave the plants alone to 'dry out' a bit? I'm handicapped and needed to find a way to curtail the climbing steps, so I'm hoping I can get the automatic watering fixed, but if this is going to mean the demise of my plants maybe I should just give up. Please let me know if this is salvageable.


Let them dry out a bit. Water the pot when it feels light to the lift. Can't tell if it's salvageable or not, sorry.


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## mustangmaddi (Oct 25, 2009)

Well most of the plants dried up fine, although I did lose one to mold. I also had to toss one as I used Miracle Gro soil and the gnats just seem to love this stuff. I'm thinking about laying a small amount of diamtomaceous earth on the soil to keep the gnats down. Has anyone tried this? Also, considering my situation with recurrent gnats, I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions of a good quality soil that isn't going to draw gnats too much. Money is not a big factor but I'd like to keep costs down. Also looking for 12" plastic pots to repot. Oh, and I'm starting to think this gnat and dirt thing is a bit of a pain. Has anyone switched recently from dirt to hydro? What do you think about it? Thanks so much everyone!


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## hemphopper (Oct 26, 2009)

I had a lot of gnats throughout a 3.5 month grow. They seemed to come with the FF Ocean Forest soil. I tried diatomaceous earth heavily applied to the soil top (used 3 gallon grow bags.) I tried predatory nemotids which may have helped - didn't get rid of em though. Also tried BTI solution applied in a heavy soak. I used sticky traps throughout the grow and a TON of gnats were caught but I never got rid of all of them. A friend who grows commercially says that gnats eat only organics in the soil and not to worry about them. I dunno!!! I did yield a lot of bud from 6 plants under T-5's and CFL's and it did not seem that the gnats hurt anything but they were a PITA. I'd love to know more though so that next grow is better.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 26, 2009)

hemphopper said:


> I had a lot of gnats throughout a 3.5 month grow. They seemed to come with the FF Ocean Forest soil. I tried diatomaceous earth heavily applied to the soil top (used 3 gallon grow bags.) I tried predatory nemotids which may have helped - didn't get rid of em though. Also tried BTI solution applied in a heavy soak. I used sticky traps throughout the grow and a TON of gnats were caught but I never got rid of all of them. A friend who grows commercially says that gnats eat only organics in the soil and not to worry about them. I dunno!!! I did yield a lot of bud from 6 plants under T-5's and CFL's and it did not seem that the gnats hurt anything but they were a PITA. I'd love to know more though so that next grow is better.


I'd use a diluted drench of an organophosphate pesticide and be done with it. Diazinon or malathion would be your best bet. Dursban stays active too long and is not necessary. Or, if you run with the organic crowd, orange oil.

UB


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## stoneyhigh (Oct 31, 2009)

my plants about 2 weeks old the 2 original lleaves are turning a dark green colour and a small bit brown... they also curled under... is this due to overwatering?


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 31, 2009)

stoneyhigh said:


> my plants about 2 weeks old the 2 original lleaves are turning a dark green colour and a small bit brown... they also curled under... is this due to overwatering?


Could be due to alot of factors. Without knowing your everyday activities, it's anyone's guess.


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## stoneyhigh (Oct 31, 2009)

ive added no nutes yet been watering it daily bout a half pint a of water a day its growin in miracle grow compost other than that its never touched...
its growin under a 7w cfl bulb which is in a homemade reflector made from a cut open beer can, the lights about 2 inches above the plant and is on for 20 hours a day...


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## MrBlanco (Oct 31, 2009)

Uncle Ben, if you have a few moments I'm having an issue with one of my plants.

Here's a link to my grow topic https://www.rollitup.org/cfl-growing/263995-my-cfl-grow.html and my latest post (with pics) in it https://www.rollitup.org/3324306-post15.html I have a white widow, santa berry, and blue dream. The WW is doing pretty good with lots of new growth but the other two aren't doing so well. The SB is just droopy and sad looking, with minor yellowing. But the BD is kind of worrying me because it's gone from having a few of the bigger leaves go yellow to having a yellow spot near the top and taking on an overall yellow hue.

Cliffs:
-I got the clones in 16oz. cups on the 25th and they were really dry, the plant in question was the driest of the bunch, with apparent nute burn showing on the 27th. I believe from the low moisture levels. There are pics in my topic.
-I watered with plain Brita filtered water until they drained for two waterings, on the 27th and a little more on the 29th with Thrive Alive B1 Green (http://www.technaflora.com/products.php?product=16).
-I believed they were showing signs of being rootbound that day because I could see root tips at the drain holes. The had pretty good root masses when I pulled them out to transplant on the 30th.
-I soaked the roots in the Thrive Alive per the directions (1/2tsp. to a qt.) for about 15 minutes, then transplanted into 5g buckets with a 2-1 perlite/vermiculite (two 8qt. bags of MG perlite and one 12qt. non-nuted bag) medium. The medium was saturated with a 1/4 mixture of the B1 prior to transplanting and then I gave them a cup each of nutes, with more B1, on top of where the rootball was. Total nutes should be 10-11-11 (4-1-6 from the perlite, 5-9-4 from Humboldt Oneness, and 1-1-1 from the B1).
-Transplant was done about an hour before lights out on the 30th.


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## dakin3d (Oct 31, 2009)

Hey UB,

I would like to get your input regarding the photos I have attached of browning leaves on a few of my plants. I have my suspicions, but am not 100% sure what this is a sign of...?? If any additional info is needed just let me know. I am currently growing in Fox Farm, Happy Frog soil. I have fed approximately twice on a 1 in 3 feed rotation using Botanicare Pro Grow at 66% and 100% of recommended concentration, respectively. I have been watering about every 3 days in 2 gallon cheap nursery pots. RH is high, 55-71%; Temp ranged from 62-79 F in last 8 days. Initially saw signs of browning over the past 3-4 days, and has progressively gotten worse. Vegging 24/0 under 400W Hortilux Ace. My room has limited ventilation, although I am using an oscillating fan in a 7.5x7.5x9' space. I appreciate your insight, and thank you in advance! Cheers.


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## DocBud (Nov 1, 2009)

dakin3d said:


> Hey UB,
> 
> I would like to get your input regarding the photos I have attached of browning leaves on a few of my plants. I have my suspicions, but am not 100% sure what this is a sign of...?? If any additional info is needed just let me know. I am currently growing in Fox Farm, Happy Frog soil. I have fed approximately twice on a 1 in 3 feed rotation using Botanicare Pro Grow at 66% and 100% of recommended concentration, respectively. I have been watering about every 3 days in 2 gallon cheap nursery pots. RH is high, 55-71%; Temp ranged from 62-79 F in last 8 days. Initially saw signs of browning over the past 3-4 days, and has progressively gotten worse. Vegging 24/0 under 400W Hortilux Ace. My room has limited ventilation, although I am using an oscillating fan in a 7.5x7.5x9' space. I appreciate your insight, and thank you in advance! Cheers.


I look forward the UB's opinion, but that looks like a fungus to me.

Big pots, small plants, lot's of water, high RH.


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## dakin3d (Nov 1, 2009)

DocBud said:


> I look forward the UB's opinion, but that looks like a fungus to me.
> 
> Big pots, small plants, lot's of water, high RH.


Hey Doc,

Could you elaborate on what you mean? Is this fungus found in the soil and secreting something that is toxic to the plant? Or you mean directly growing on the leaves of the plant? If on the leaves, wouldn't this be visible in someway, besides the browning of the leaves, of course. The reason I ask is that there is no visible signs (naked eye) of anything 'growing' on the flesh of leaves. You'll have to excuse my ignorance, as I am unmistakably, a newb. However, I do have a degree in Molecular and Microbio, as well as extensive lab experience, so I'm not totally oblivious (I hate qualifying, but...). Thanks for your input and I look forward to your response.


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## MrBlanco (Nov 1, 2009)

I'd be interested too because I just transplanted from 16oz. cups to 5g buckets and thought humidity was supposed to be over 50%.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 1, 2009)

MrBlanco said:


> Uncle Ben, if you have a few moments I'm having an issue with one of my plants.
> 
> Here's a link to my grow topic https://www.rollitup.org/cfl-growing/263995-my-cfl-grow.html and my latest post (with pics) in it https://www.rollitup.org/3324306-post15.html


Briefly took a look at that thread. For starts, that's not enough light. If you have an imbalance of light to salts, it will show in the leaves as necrotic dots, copper color dots. That is a stressful event happening and a precursor to complete leaf necrosis, leaf drop.

This is an educated guess as I'm not there to assess your activities on a day to day basis.

If your plants were showing roots growing out the drainholes, it's time to upcan. That's a good sign. IOW, they aren't rotting.

I would use foods who's salts are higher in N.



dakin3d said:


> Hey UB,
> 
> I would like to get your input regarding the photos I have attached of browning leaves on a few of my plants. I have my suspicions, but am not 100% sure what this is a sign of...?? If any additional info is needed just let me know. I am currently growing in Fox Farm, Happy Frog soil.


Does it have a nutrient charge, and if so what is it? Most potting soils do.



> I have fed approximately twice on a 1 in 3 feed rotation using Botanicare Pro Grow at 66% and 100% of recommended concentration, respectively.


Sorry my friend, doesn't mean a thing to me. You apply foods according to plants' requirements, not some recommendation on a label. You also apply foods based on certain ratios dependent on what you're trying to accomplish. IOW, promoting foliage requires a higher N ratio than say....a 1-3-2.



> I have been watering about every 3 days in 2 gallon cheap nursery pots. RH is high, 55-71%; Temp ranged from 62-79 F in last 8 days. Initially saw signs of browning over the past 3-4 days, and has progressively gotten worse. Vegging 24/0 under 400W Hortilux Ace.


1. Increase the temp, go for a 15F differential day/night.

2. Plants need a rest. Recommend a 20/4 for veg.

3. Can't comment on the lighting as I don't know what your plants are actually receiving regarding f.c.



> My room has limited ventilation, although I am using an oscillating fan in a 7.5x7.5x9' space. I appreciate your insight, and thank you in advance! Cheers.


Sounds good. Good air movement is necessary to keep disease pressures at bay, especially during flowering.

Good luck,
UB


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## MrBlanco (Nov 1, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Briefly took a look at that thread. For starts, that's not enough light. If you have an imbalance of light to salts, it will show in the leaves as necrotic dots, copper color dots. That is a stressful event happening and a precursor to complete leaf necrosis, leaf drop.
> 
> This is an educated guess as I'm not there to assess your activities on a day to day basis.
> 
> ...


I have 260w running right now, how much more do I need? I'm working on getting them positioned better, but all of the plants have at least one light 1-3" away.

I have a new problem. I checked the drainoff pH of my Santa Berry, which is really droopy and sad looking, and it was somewhere between 7-7.5, according to the color chart. I have no idea how this happened because I check and adjust the pH of all the water I give them.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 2, 2009)

MrBlanco said:


> I have 260w running right now, how much more do I need? I'm working on getting them positioned better, but all of the plants have at least one light 1-3" away.


Don't know, as I (nor you) have a clue of what they are really receiving. Remove all doubt and buy a light meter that registers up to 10K f.c.



> I have a new problem. I checked the drainoff pH of my Santa Berry, which is really droopy and sad looking, and it was somewhere between 7-7.5, according to the color chart. I have no idea how this happened because I check and adjust the pH of all the water I give them.


Can you trust the accuracy of the chart? If you're in soil, that pH is fine, besides folks put way to much emphasis on pH values. Human dynamics being that they use the ruse of a pH imbalance to try to explain away something else that is wrong with their applications, their methods. IOW, it's kinda like adding epsom salts, it is the easy way out. Could be "God's will", ya never know. 

Good luck,
UB


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## MrBlanco (Nov 2, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Don't know, as I (nor you) have a clue of what they are really receiving. Remove all doubt and buy a light meter that registers up to 10K f.c.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Groovy.

It's a pH kit made for hydroponics since I'm using 2-1 perlite/vermiculite as my medium. I was just worried at seeing green test water instead of the pee yellow of 6. I foliar fed my plants last night and they all showed improvement this morning. So maybe the pH is locking out nutes?

I did some more moving with my lights.


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## badness (Nov 2, 2009)

hey ub,
just wanted to thank you for turning me on to the micrkote, it's the best product i have ever used and it's cheap!
got one q for you: what is the best thing to do after an initial overfeeding? everytime i start feeding my plants the first few weeks of flowering the same thing happens like clockwork. the fan leaves all turn yellow and fall off starting at the bottom of plant. tips show burning. i flush the plants when this happens then of coarse feed them less the next time but the plants never seem to recover. maybe i'm not flushing enough? well i just bought a good (blue lab) ppm meter and i am going to start using it, but i've never used one nor worried about ppm.
so if you could give me some advise on what to do after overfeeding the plants the first time (i don't feed them much in veg and only organic stuff) and how i can utilize the ppm meter. i am in dirt by the way. thanks ub.


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## dakin3d (Nov 2, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Does it have a nutrient charge, and if so what is it? Most potting soils do.


I assume so, and I am waiting on the response from Fox Farm for that specific information. I do know that it contains a lot of organic products, which if I understand correctly, it would be hard to get nutrient burning, especially from a pre-mix, but who knows. The main components are earthworm castings, mycorrhizae (as well as various beneficial bacteria's), bat guano, and humic acid. Not sure if this matters...




Uncle Ben said:


> Sorry my friend, doesn't mean a thing to me. You apply foods according to plants' requirements, not some recommendation on a label. You also apply foods based on certain ratios dependent on what you're trying to accomplish. IOW, promoting foliage requires a higher N ratio than say....a 1-3-2.


Hehe, I'm sure it doesn't and I apologize if I didn't give more useful information, however I wanted to provide you as much as possible in hopes that you could aid in diagnosing my current problem, and I truly appreciate your help. I would like to clarify what your saying: So, when you add nutrients you do so in a reactive manner, rather than proactive, according to how your plants are growing, and what they're 'telling you' based on observation? Otherwise, I wouldn't necessarily know what specific requirements the plant needs, other than the generalized guideline on the back of the bottle. I guess you are insinuating that I should know what exactly is going into my plants by adding individual components rather than a pre-mixed nutrient made by a corporation? Also, I would love to accomplish all of the things that make for a successful grow, including promoting foliage, larger roots, healthier, fuller plants, larger yields, etc. Could you give me some insight as to how to do this?... Or more specifically, what do you use to feed, in general, and what processes do these involve when taking into consideration feed schedule, etc.





Uncle Ben said:


> 1. Increase the temp, go for a 15F differential day/night.
> 
> 2. Plants need a rest. Recommend a 20/4 for veg.
> 
> 3. Can't comment on the lighting as I don't know what your plants are actually receiving regarding f.c.


I appreciate the recommendations, and I have implemented both, as of today.





Uncle Ben said:


> Sounds good. Good air movement is necessary to keep disease pressures at bay, especially during flowering.


Can too much fan be a problem? IOW, is is a bad thing to keep the fan on the plants consistently, w/o oscillation?


Last, do you use CO2? Is it a bad thing to use CO2 in an environment that will receive very little 'new air', due to lack of ventilation?

And are you aware if supercropping stunts a plant?

UB, again, thank you, I appreciate your time.... Now if I can only get some Meds! Dry for over a month now  Cheers!


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 2, 2009)

badness said:


> hey ub,
> just wanted to thank you for turning me on to the micrkote, it's the best product i have ever used and it's cheap!
> got one q for you: what is the best thing to do after an initial overfeeding? everytime i start feeding my plants the first few weeks of flowering the same thing happens like clockwork. the fan leaves all turn yellow and fall off starting at the bottom of plant. tips show burning. i flush the plants when this happens then of coarse feed them less the next time but the plants never seem to recover. maybe i'm not flushing enough? well i just bought a good (blue lab) ppm meter and i am going to start using it, but i've never used one nor worried about ppm.
> so if you could give me some advise on what to do after overfeeding the plants the first time (i don't feed them much in veg and only organic stuff) and how i can utilize the ppm meter. i am in dirt by the way. thanks ub.


I don't know if you've overfed or not as you have not told me what you're using, the frequency and amount nor the size of the plants. The loss of lower fan leaves is typical around here, it's a cultural thing and many times the result of using cannabis foods that don't contain enough N.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 2, 2009)

dakin3d said:


> Hehe, I'm sure it doesn't and I apologize if I didn't give more useful information, however I wanted to provide you as much as possible in hopes that you could aid in diagnosing my current problem, and I truly appreciate your help. I would like to clarify what your saying: So, when you add nutrients you do so in a reactive manner, rather than proactive, according to how your plants are growing, and what they're 'telling you' based on observation?


Proactive as in trying to predict what is to come. If your plants are growing out of a young stage and into an adult stage, naturally they will require more salts. If they are very young or in a state of late flowering, then you need to back off, or, you'll screw them up with no chance of recovery.

Reactive is watching your lower leaves drop because you've been using some cannabis miracle bloom food which is really designed to promote leaf drop ("they" don't tell you that). Takes time (and money) for folks to realize it. Lessons hard learned for the noob who's letting themselves to be taken advantage of, vendor does more trips to the bank for deposits - it's all about the money. 



> Otherwise, I wouldn't necessarily know what specific requirements the plant needs, other than the generalized guideline on the back of the bottle.


That's the worse place to start. You need to research plant nutrition in hardback or on the web.



> I guess you are insinuating that I should know what exactly is going into my plants by adding individual components rather than a pre-mixed nutrient made by a corporation?


Nope, I'm saying you need to understand plant nutrition and then compare what you've learned with the crap you read off the typical label. 



> Also, I would love to accomplish all of the things that make for a successful grow, including promoting foliage, larger roots, healthier, fuller plants, larger yields, etc. Could you give me some insight as to how to do this?... Or more specifically, what do you use to feed, in general, and what processes do these involve when taking into consideration feed schedule, etc.


You'll just have to learn Botany 101 on your own. Aint mah yob mah man.

UB


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## Lifted1 (Nov 2, 2009)

runnin just a single drain hole at bottom of pail 1.5 inch up.

75/25 perlite/vermiculite

veg'd with low ppm botanicare grow

1st week of flower fed twice 500 ppm GH Flora Nova Bloom.

room temps 75 during light 64 nights.

added cal-mag for last feeding by mistake as not needed and i bought for veg res. i think Flora Nova has both already oops.  would that cause this?

all suggestions appreciated.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 3, 2009)

dakin3d said:


> Can too much fan be a problem? IOW, is is a bad thing to keep the fan on the plants consistently, w/o oscillation?


Keep the fans on constantly.



> Last, do you use CO2? Is it a bad thing to use CO2 in an environment that will receive very little 'new air', due to lack of ventilation?


Waste of time.



> And are you aware if supercropping stunts a plant?


I have no opinion on "supercropping", but if I had to lean one way or the other, it would be that's it's just another forum gimmick. If it sounds good, then it's gotta be, right?

"Believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see."

UB


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## Lifted1 (Nov 3, 2009)

Yo Ben! whataya think is goin on with my gals????? u ever c this b4? should i flush or do ya think this is an overwatering problem?????


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 3, 2009)

Lifted1 said:


> Yo Ben! whataya think is goin on with my gals????? u ever c this b4? should i flush or do ya think this is an overwatering problem?????


Have you looked at the root system?


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## MikeyPeenz (Nov 4, 2009)

Hi Uncle Ben, thank you for creating this thread! I have a quick question for you if your not too busy.

I have recently discovered some leaves om my plant which is about 12 days old, they are starting to look copperish and coupling, is this due to over watering?? i'll post pics and maybe the link to my grow if u want to check it out. Any advice is very appreciated, thank you for your time.

here is link
https://www.rollitup.org/cfl-growing/261235-indoor-cfl-journal-1st-grow.html


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## Jack*Madison (Nov 5, 2009)

From those pictures it could be over nuting or over watering. Are you giving fertilizer yet?


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## MikeyPeenz (Nov 5, 2009)

Jack*Madison said:


> From those pictures it could be over nuting or over watering. Are you giving fertilizer yet?


no nuts yet, the copperish colour could be over watering, i find i have to water daily, dry soil. Temps have been from 79-90! i have it stable now at 81, humidity is about 44%
i have them on 24/7 right now until day 16 which is this weekend.


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## dakin3d (Nov 5, 2009)

MikeyPeenz said:


> no nuts yet, the copperish colour could be over watering, i find i have to water daily, dry soil. Temps have been from 79-90! i have it stable now at 81, humidity is about 44%
> i have them on 24/7 right now until day 16 which is this weekend.


Always interested to hear from UB, as he will set the record straight.... 

But what kind of soil are you using? It appears that you using a time released soil by observation of your pics? If so, this obviously already has fert in it. When your medium becomes dry (you stated that it was becoming dry daily), this increases the chance of nutrient burn when the plants are young due to increase in salt concentration w/in medium. I experienced this in my previous grow b/c I started out using a MG soil that contained time release nute's... IMHO, I agree w/ Jack, nutrient burn. 

It shouldn't be over watering, given your information is correct. If the soil is truly dry... Compare a container that you have just planted, no water; to a container that you just planted, watered. Weight of container is one reliable way to tell. Sticking your finger deep into the soil an inch or two, is NOT reliable.

Keep in mind that I myself, am a new grower. So, take it for what its worth. Just trying to pass along my recently learned lessons. Cheers!


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 5, 2009)

MikeyPeenz said:


> no nuts yet, the copperish colour could be over watering, i find i have to water daily, dry soil. Temps have been from 79-90! i have it stable now at 81, humidity is about 44%
> i have them on 24/7 right now until day 16 which is this weekend.


It's some type of leaf scorch. What caused it is your call. Did you get a light too close to the leaves? 

You're bound to have some nutrition in your soil.

Solid advice dakin3d


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## MikeyPeenz (Nov 5, 2009)

Hey guys, thanks for the responses! I had posted a few days ago in my journal that i had came home from skool one afternoon and noticed my plants were close to the lights, about 2 inches away, i thought immediatly heat burn! but upon furthur inspection, i have read through the soil i have, and it does contain time release ferts. Im not using mg soil, but some soil made by shultz. Is it too early to transplant out of this soil into new? i have to put the ladies in new pots soon, and was debating weather to do this now or wait till the weekend when i begin veg. Will transplanting now cause more stress to these ladies? i have delt with high heat issues, almost 90's, and have finally sorted this problem out. 
Thanks again for the information and clarification, i have had a few conflicting reports and just wanted to be sure.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 6, 2009)

MikeyPeenz said:


> Hey guys, thanks for the responses! I had posted a few days ago in my journal that i had came home from skool one afternoon and noticed my plants were close to the lights, about 2 inches away, i thought immediatly heat burn!


2" away from what kind of lights? More than likely it is heat burn, a temperature issue which was my first call.



> but upon furthur inspection, i have read through the soil i have, and it does contain time release ferts. Im not using mg soil, but some soil made by shultz.


They use an encapsulated, long term, COMPLETE food that I use commercially called Polyon. Little blue pellets with a few grays and greens, right? It is a top quality food and Schultz is an excellent brand at a fair price. Plants flourish getting slow release food, and you won't get any better results than with this food. 



> Is it too early to transplant out of this soil into new?


Upcan into the same soil if need be.



> i have to put the ladies in new pots soon,


Why?



> i have delt with high heat issues, almost 90's, and have finally sorted this problem out.


1. bingo!

2. You are poised to make matters worse. Don't worry about a few scorched leaves, they will have NO impact on your final results. Only upcan if your faves are rootbound and showing signs of less vigor/growth also reflected by the need to water often. They sure don't look like they're ready for larger pots to me. Let them go another 2 or 3 nodes unless you have alot of roots growing out of the drainholes. 









> Thanks again for the information and clarification, i have had a few conflicting reports and just wanted to be sure.


Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.  IOW, conflicting reports are par for the course around here. The sooner you understand what makes a plant tick, the sooner you'll be empowered to know what's right and what's wrong and take the _correct_ action for _your_ garden.

Good luck,
UB


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## MikeyPeenz (Nov 6, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> 2" away from what kind of lights? More than likely it is heat burn, a temperature issue which was my first call.
> 
> They use an encapsulated, long term, COMPLETE food that I use commercially called Polyon. Little blue pellets with a few grays and greens, right? It is a top quality food and Schultz is an excellent brand at a fair price. Plants flourish getting slow release food, and you won't get any better results than with this food.
> 
> ...




Uncle ben, thanks again for the response, you probably dont need the rep but you will be getting some! 
You say this leaf scorching wont effect my final results? over the days it seems to be getting worse, and im beginning to see it on the other girls as well, just on the original leaves, the new sprouts are coming up almost daily and look healthy (my opinion)
I will let them go longer before i re pot them into bigger pots. I also was looking at lst when the time comes and a topping method to overall increase my yeild in my small grow cab, im using cfls by the way, about 3 right now.

Would mixing some shultz soil with some organic give the girls a lil break on the time release ferts? Due to the small restrictions in my grow cab ive been running the lights 24/7 trying to build strong roots, and i check on them around the same time daily, only to find out the soil is very dry and light compared to after i water. Im worried that due to watering every day this is giving off more and more ferts and would hurt/ make my problem worse.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 6, 2009)

MikeyPeenz said:


> Uncle ben, thanks again for the response, you probably dont need the rep but you will be getting some!


Thanks for the kind thoughts, but homie don't play that game. 



> You say this leaf scorching wont effect my final results?[


Of course not. Now, if you can keep that leaf till harvest, then you're a better man than 99.9% of growers around here. 



> Would mixing some shultz soil with some organic give the girls a lil break on the time release ferts?


No, what makes you think it will?



> Due to the small restrictions in my grow cab ive been running the lights 24/7 trying to build strong roots, and i check on them around the same time daily, only to find out the soil is very dry and light compared to after i water. Im worried that due to watering every day this is giving off more and more ferts and would hurt/ make my problem worse.


The slow release fertilizer is designed not to create salts burn. If you have to water quite often, then indeed it might be time to upcan. Pop one out and look-see. If you don't have root spinout, then put it back in and give it a bit more time. This is only way you will get educated regarding choosing the optimum time to upcan a plant.

Good luck,
UB


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## dakin3d (Nov 6, 2009)

I never thanked you for the last correspondence, so thank you. I've been attempting to read as much literature as possible on plant nutrition, revisiting some gen bio, as well as some botany.

I wanted to ask you one question regarding CO2. You previously stated that it was 'Waste of time'. Would you kindly elaborate on what you mean by this? Waste of time for someone who is in my situation? OR Waste of time, period. If so, could you explain why?

Also, do you personally only use the time release soil for nutrient supplementation? Do you use something else in addition?

As always, I appreciate your insight.


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## the church man (Nov 6, 2009)

hey uncle ben.

i like your style. you fly low on the radar and above all the bullshit. i'm not going to give you +rep, but i will let you know that you have steered me in the right direction and i have much respect for you.

i was not going to post. i already did what i did and there's no going back. 

ok so here's the scenario, the "incident" happened three days ago

i topped a couple weeks ago using your wonderful method. i made only one snip but not one cut. i realized that i had cut off where my fourth top would have come in. No biggie, i can deal with three (as opposed to one ). 

a couple days ago i was planning on slightly tying down (i'm more just suggesting that the plant grow here as opposed to there) in my space. upon executing said plan i got a bit overzealous and snapped a top

Instantly, and i mean this response was less than thirty seconds, the leaf pair above the break wilted, twisted and sat limp. Fortunately, the break was not complete and i have "set" it very gently with tape and toothpicks (can you tell i'm gonna be a doctor?). i had no idea what to do but knew i had to act quick. what i did seems to have worked. what i mean by this is that the tissue above the break still looks good and green, aside from the one node directly above the break. 

i know your opinion of folliage cutting and before this incident have never cut anything off my plant (except for the top(and the extra)). But seriously, this leaf pair looked pathetic. i didn't touch them at all and they shriveled and dried out. so today i took the razor and sliced them off.

i should have just waited for them to fall off huh? i remember you mentioning carbon indicators and energy stores within the leaf. i didn't want to cut them but they were completely dry and i felt that they were useless.

one last, interesting note. although the tissue above the "fuck up" looks like its not dying, the nodes below it are acting like i topped it even though the top is still on. its acting like the auxins were redistributed, but the top is on and auxins come from the top. or maybe the top really did get severed and isn't functioning for the plant anymore and will die soon...

i'd love to hear what you think is going on... i'm really not too worried because everything has looked basically pretty good the whole grow


Edit: hahahaha uncle ben. My stoned ass just realized that i probably should have posted this in your thread on topping. But i hope it doesn't matter much because it seems that this thread has turned into a general help forum!


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 7, 2009)

dakin3d said:


> I never thanked you for the last correspondence, so thank you. I've been attempting to read as much literature as possible on plant nutrition, revisiting some gen bio, as well as some botany.


You're welcome, and regarding the CO2, I think you need to do the basics before jumping off into CO2. That's more money, you should meter it and those meters aren't cheap, etc. CO2 if fine, if you don't ignore the caveats. Fresh air and good air movement will go a long way towards raising good plants. 



> Also, do you personally only use the time release soil for nutrient supplementation? Do you use something else in addition?
> 
> As always, I appreciate your insight.


Let's get into my philosophy and some basics, plants do better with a little over a long period of time than a big hit. That not only goes for food but light. Moderate light over a longer period of time is much better regarding photosynthesis and plant health/vigor than high light for short period of time. Outdoors, morning sun is better than late afternoon. 

I combine organic and synthetic plant foods to get to where I want to go. The organics (blood/bone meal), compost, peat provide slow release salts, the stuff in a box provides a convenient tweek. Speaking of tweeks, I put together a draft of my tweeks and then stopped after I found out that the thread starter is locked out of editing his starting post after a few days. If I can't add and revise, I'll not get too enthused. However, I'll soon post what I started.



the church man said:


> hey uncle ben.
> 
> i like your style. you fly low on the radar and above all the bullshit. i'm not going to give you +rep, but i will let you know that you have steered me in the right direction and i have much respect for you.


Thanks man! I appreciate the thoughts and welcome to the thread.



> i was not going to post. i already did what i did and there's no going back.
> 
> ok so here's the scenario, the "incident" happened three days ago
> 
> ...


A clean break is not repairable. You're lucky to be able to put a splint on it.



> i should have just waited for them to fall off huh? i remember you mentioning carbon indicators and energy stores within the leaf. i didn't want to cut them but they were completely dry and i felt that they were useless.


If they're not functional then do what you have to do. I wouldn't sweat it.



> one last, interesting note. although the tissue above the "fuck up" looks like its not dying, the nodes below it are acting like i topped it even though the top is still on. its acting like the auxins were redistributed, but the top is on and auxins come from the top. or maybe the top really did get severed and isn't functioning for the plant anymore and will die soon...


I doubt if you'll get the 4 main colas, rules have changed here. Let us know how it turns out.

Good luck,
UB


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 7, 2009)

Just started a tweek thread FWIW.

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/267989-uncle-bens-gardening-tweeks-pointers.html#post3358288


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## MrBlanco (Nov 7, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Just started a tweek thread FWIW.
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/267989-uncle-bens-gardening-tweeks-pointers.html#post3358288


Awesome!

If I may impose on your time once again.

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/267444-how-check-roots-5g-bucket.html

Two of my plants are looking great and one just isn't doing squat since I transplanted a week ago.


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## the church man (Nov 7, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> I doubt if you'll get the 4 main colas, rules have changed here. Let us know how it turns out.
> 
> Good luck,
> UB


 
thanks tio! i just wanted to clarify some things....

this plant was topped three weeks ago. it has three nice sized colas on it and multiple smaller ones. a couple days ago i was tying down one of the main colas it snapped a couple nodes down from the top. so, after supporting it, i've noticed explosive growth on the two nodes below the break. 

so one of the colas that i got from topping has been "semi topped". i'll take some pics and post them later on. 

once again uncle ben, we all appreciate the enormous contributions that you've made here. 

what i would give to sit down and converse with you over a bottle of wine, blunts and a good board game


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 7, 2009)

MrBlanco said:


> Awesome!
> 
> If I may impose on your time once again.
> 
> ...


You've oversized the plants in relationship to the pot size.


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## MrBlanco (Nov 7, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> You've oversized the plants in relationship to the pot size.


None of them are over 12" tall though, so 3g should be correct, right? I R confused.

Bugger it. Can I just transplant into a dwc at this time?


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 8, 2009)

MrBlanco said:


> None of them are over 12" tall though, so 3g should be correct, right? I R confused.
> 
> Bugger it. Can I just transplant into a dwc at this time?


Go ahead. Sounds like you're gonna jump off into other techniques before understanding the cultural problem.


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## MrBlanco (Nov 8, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Go ahead. Sounds like you're gonna jump off into other techniques before understanding the cultural problem.


Dude, if you don't want to help me just say so and I won't bother you again. No need to be condescending.

I'll try this again. _Why_ is a sickly 12" tall plant too big for a five gallon bucket? What can I do to save this plant?


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 8, 2009)

MrBlanco said:


> Dude, if you don't want to help me just say so and I won't bother you again. No need to be condescending.
> 
> I'll try this again. _Why_ is a sickly 12" tall plant too big for a five gallon bucket? What can I do to save this plant?


That wasn't meant to be condescending. It is a fact that folks jump into something else before perfecting their program. I don't know how many noobs I've seen who have screwed up a soil grow, try to blame it on the soil and then do the "dro" thing only to fail again.

Without knowing your day to day activities I can't advise you on what to do to save that plant. I'm not a mind reader.

A 5 gallon pot will support an 8' tall plant. If I had to guess, you've got a really piss poor root system. Have you inspected it?

UB


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## MrBlanco (Nov 8, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> That wasn't meant to be condescending. It is a fact that folks jump into something else before perfecting their program. I don't know how many noobs I've seen who have screwed up a soil grow, try to blame it on the soil and then do the "dro" thing only to fail again.
> 
> Without knowing your day to day activities I can't advise you on what to do to save that plant. I'm not a mind reader.
> 
> ...


I linked you to both of my topics (you likely forgot my question from last week, that plant is one of the two that's doing well) so you would know what I'm doing. Anything else, feel free to ask.

The last topic I linked you to is titled "How to check roots, 5g bucket". I'd like to check the roots, but I don't know how other than to just dig the thing up. I can't get an answer other than "don't do that" or "understand the cultural problem" (which might make sense to someone with experience but it means jack to a newbie, by the way). That's why I want to go to hydro before perfecting this medium. My goal is saving this plant. If you can help, great. If not, just tell me so I can stop bothering you and wasting my time typing. If you can't tell, I'm getting a little frustrated.

I flushed it this morning with straight 75f water.


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## riddleme (Nov 8, 2009)

First off, I want to thank you so very much for taking the time to do what you do!

I have read all of this thread and it was one of the best threads I have spent the time to read on this forum!

Your no nonsense, no bull Sht, common sense approach is a breath of fresh air

I also took the time to follow links that you posted, thank you for Jack's Classic info (priceless) link for any that missed it
http://www.jacksclassic.com/index.html 

I found a site that I thought qualified as a good botany 101 (place to start for the misguided) and wanted to share it so you could pass it on 
http://www.allotment.org.uk/fertilizer/npk-fertilizer.php 

there are several links at the bottom of the page to follow 

I subscribed to your new tweaks thread, looking forward to it!

I would personally love to see a future myth buster thread from you, though you busted many of them in this thread 

things like your opinion on
superthrive
mollases
epsom salt
light cycles
flushing
nutes (salts)
etc.
I just think it would be a great thread, or as one poster said a how to do it right book by Uncle Ben

sorry I don't have a problem at the moment (did in the begining) but now thriving and happy, very green and bushy w/ less than 1/2" internodes
(will be sharing "my story" soon in a journal)

Thanks again and keep on growing


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 9, 2009)

riddleme said:


> First off, I want to thank you so very much for taking the time to do what you do!
> 
> I have read all of this thread and it was one of the best threads I have spent the time to read on this forum!
> 
> Your no nonsense, no bull Sht, common sense approach is a breath of fresh air


Thanks, it does try my patience sometimes. When it's all said and done, most folks seem to come back to the basics but there are those that keep on trying to find the holy grail in a bottle or a gimmick.



> I also took the time to follow links that you posted, thank you for Jack's Classic info (priceless) link for any that missed it
> http://www.jacksclassic.com/index.html


Thanks, I've been posting that link for many years. Of all the Blossom foods, Jack's has the best IMO. It is well designed regarding the N salts ratio, increased Mg, good iron content, etc. 



> I found a site that I thought qualified as a good botany 101 (place to start for the misguided) and wanted to share it so you could pass it on
> http://www.allotment.org.uk/fertilizer/npk-fertilizer.php
> 
> there are several links at the bottom of the page to follow
> ...


Nice link!



> I would personally love to see a future myth buster thread from you, though you busted many of them in this thread
> 
> things like your opinion on
> superthrive
> ...


I was going to expound on some of that stuff but not having the flexibility to add and edit here is a deal killer for me. If you have a question about such topics, go to the thread and ask it.



> sorry I don't have a problem at the moment (did in the begining) but now thriving and happy, very green and bushy w/ less than 1/2" internodes
> (will be sharing "my story" soon in a journal)
> 
> Thanks again and keep on growing


Good luck with your garden!


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## Mountainfarmer (Nov 9, 2009)

Is there a doctor in the house? Like many of the posters here I would first like to say thanks for all of the support you give to growers. Although one person may ask a question, your answers helps the multitudes. Gracious Tio. After a ten year hiatus I decided to pull the equipment out and give it a go. My first observation since dusting off the equipment is how much more complicated things are now. I recently picked up a catalogue from the grow shop and was amazed at the 15 pages of nutrients that were available to a grower. Not to mention the different lamps, ballast,reflectors, controlers, ect, ect,ect...Anyhow I am about a month into things and they have been going fairly well (at least I think so) up until recently. Seems like growth has slowed and there is also signs of either a deficiency, over nuting, or some kind of water stress. Can you please take a look at my pictures and ask me some questions. I can't seem to diagnose the problem. Thanks in advance.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 9, 2009)

Mountainfarmer said:


> Is there a doctor in the house? Like many of the posters here I would first like to say thanks for all of the support you give to growers. Although one person may ask a question, your answers helps the multitudes. Gracious Tio. After a ten year hiatus I decided to pull the equipment out and give it a go. My first observation since dusting off the equipment is how much more complicated things are now. I recently picked up a catalogue from the grow shop and was amazed at the 15 pages of nutrients that were available to a grower. Not to mention the different lamps, ballast,reflectors, controlers, ect, ect,ect...


 It's all about the money. I don't get caught up in all that nonsense. 



> Anyhow I am about a month into things and they have been going fairly well (at least I think so) up until recently. Seems like growth has slowed and there is also signs of either a deficiency, over nuting, or some kind of water stress. Can you please take a look at my pictures and ask me some questions. I can't seem to diagnose the problem. Thanks in advance.


What fertilizer have you been giving them, and puhleeeeese don't give me a product name, give me the analysis, frequency of application, nutrient charge in the soil, etc. 

Overall they look damn good to me! I do pick up on the beginning of leaf necrosis, the copper colored dots.

Welcome back,
Tio


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## Mountainfarmer (Nov 9, 2009)

Tio, Medium is a soiless mix. peat moss, perlite, lime, and wetting agent. At week three I recanned and mixed in some ocean forrest just to add a bit of juice. I also added some mycorrhizae, a endo/ecto blend. First feeding was done 2 days after repot. I fed with: .25 dose of 6/4/4 and a full dose of fulvic acid per gallon of well water. the 6/4/4 does contain trace elements. At week 4 I decided to go with a full organic fertilizer and fed a .50 dose of 5/2/5. I also added some super plant tonic to help below the soil line. This was applied at full strength. Week 5 was last night and I decided to go back with the 6/4/4 @ full strength and a .50 dose of bat guano, 10/2/1. It looked to me that they were needing Nitrogen so I increased dosage. How about the photo with the extreme downward cupping? This must surely be a sign of bad things to come. Also, for what it's worth I am on a 24/0 lighting schedule.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 10, 2009)

Mountainfarmer said:


> Tio, Medium is a soiless mix. peat moss, perlite, lime, and wetting agent. At week three I recanned and mixed in some ocean forrest just to add a bit of juice. I also added some mycorrhizae, a endo/ecto blend. First feeding was done 2 days after repot. I fed with: .25 dose of 6/4/4 and a full dose of fulvic acid per gallon of well water. the 6/4/4 does contain trace elements. At week 4 I decided to go with a full organic fertilizer and fed a .50 dose of 5/2/5. I also added some super plant tonic to help below the soil line. This was applied at full strength. Week 5 was last night and I decided to go back with the 6/4/4 @ full strength and a .50 dose of bat guano, 10/2/1. It looked to me that they were needing Nitrogen so I increased dosage. How about the photo with the extreme downward cupping? This must surely be a sign of bad things to come. Also, for what it's worth I am on a 24/0 lighting schedule.


With peat moss you don't need the fulvic acid, it's loaded. I don't put plants on a schedule, I read them. 1/4 of a 6-4-4 is almost nothing compared to 1/4 of a 30-10-10 if you're using say....a teaspoon per gallon. Even 1/4 tsp. of a 30-10-10 is very little. What's with the "super plant tonic"? What's that got?

Regarding the cupping, read the ditty again. I usually get that on indoor gardens and it's always heat related. One "aw shit" episode and the leaf will remain cupped forever. As long as it's green, it's still functional. It's when you get the necrotic dots that you need to worry. Unless corrected, they are nothing more than a signal to you of what can come - leaf drop.

Plants need a rest. Try 20/4. If that's not plenty of light, something else is missing.

Good luck,
UB


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## Mountainfarmer (Nov 10, 2009)

www.angelfire.com/ar2/tts/bmospt.htmlUB, thanks for you time and insight. I think I got it from here. So far I have been really cautious, but I am ready to take some chances. Some old wise women once said "if you never fall down then u will never know how to get up." As far as the "super plant tonic" I am surprised you never heard of the stuff. I will try and insert a link for info on it but if I am unable to you should google it. It's produced by a small Organic company. Its primary function is to promote root growth. check it out though I think it is right up your ally.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 11, 2009)

Mountainfarmer said:


> www.angelfire.com/ar2/tts/bmospt.htmlUB, thanks for you time and insight. I think I got it from here. So far I have been really cautious, but I am ready to take some chances. Some old wise women once said "if you never fall down then u will never know how to get up." As far as the "super plant tonic" I am surprised you never heard of the stuff. I will try and insert a link for info on it but if I am unable to you should google it. It's produced by a small Organic company. Its primary function is to promote root growth. check it out though I think it is right up your ally.


I have pissed off money trying someone's "super plant tonic". In fact, some of this stuff did some of my plants harm, like fertilizer sold by Park Seed company with these outrageous claims. Stuff came from the Netherlands and when I opened up the bottle turned out to be 1/4 rocks or minerals that precipitated out of solution and the plants didn't like it either. So, the question is, is your product regulated by third party insuring it is what it claims to be? Also, what are the active ingredients?

Thanks


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## DaveCoulier (Nov 15, 2009)

UB, Im hoping you can help me out here. This plant was doing perfectly fine up until about 7 days or so ago. Ive had this problem happen before with one of my other plants, and a shot of 6-4-4 at 1/4th strength cleared the problem right up(note: this was on a plant half this ones size).

I gave this plant in the pictures a 1/4th shot of the same NPK maybe 4-5 days ago, and the problem has only continued to work its way up the plant. Could its continued decline be attributed to under-feeding? My first instinct says its nitrogen deficiency, yet most pics I see of nitrogen def dont have necrotic spots like mine, so maybe its multiple deficiencies.

The plant is 30 days old. 

Soil medium is 60% Promix-BX(Peat Moss)/25% Perlite/15% Vermiculite.

Run off 6.9

Ive got a second question about the ph of my soilless medium. For soil, the ph is typically between 6.5-6.8, while soilless mediums like hydro should be lower, but with peat moss Im sorta confused. Its not quite hydro, nor is it soil. Im not sure what range my ph should be.


Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated. 

P.S. You're a god send to all us clueless newbies


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 16, 2009)

Looks like the root system is shot. Check it out.

I see nothing wrong with a pH around 6.2, soil or soil-less.

Good luck,
UB


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## Sexxxy Beast (Nov 16, 2009)

I have a plant that has some watering problems. Here is my setup:

600w HPS hovering about 20in from the canopy of 8 Grand Daddy Purples, Using Lucas Formula nutes, first feed was at 500ppm, Second at 947ppm. Using drinking cups with holes in the bottom, filled until solution dripped out of holes.

(Photo 1) Plants leaves are curling, this photo was taken after I transplanted my clones to coco fiber and watered them with a 50% mix of "Lucas Formula" @ 500ppm/5.8ph. 

Between photo 1 and photo 2 I asked the question if my plants were over watered, someone here seemed to think they were so as a test I removed 2 cubes from the coco and let them dry. Checked in 6 hours later and DISASTER, the 2 test plants leaves were completely limp. I immediately added water and checked in 1 hour later, this is when photo 2 was taken.

(photo 2) 1 hour after I watered them with tap water the 2 test plants recovered a good bit. I decided to feed them again, this time with 90% lucas formula or 947ppm, Instead of watering the coco fiber completely I only watered the cube until it was soaking. I indeed on checking in on them in an hour or so to see if the leaves start to untwist. In the mean time what do you all think happened?


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 17, 2009)

Sexxxy Beast said:


> I have a plant that has some watering problems. Here is my setup:
> 
> 600w HPS hovering about 20in from the canopy of 8 Grand Daddy Purples, Using Lucas Formula nutes, first feed was at 500ppm, Second at 947ppm. Using drinking cups with holes in the bottom, filled until solution dripped out of holes.
> 
> ...


When you water, do you do so until rapid runoff? I assume you took them out of the cups so the root system has direct contact with the coco fiber?

I don't do the "lucas formula". What is the NPK and micro values of that fertilizer? Looking at your plants, I doubt it they need such high PPM values. You have to match your plant food with the requirements of the plants, and don't push them! Let they find their own pace.

UB


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## Sexxxy Beast (Nov 17, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> When you water, do you do so until rapid runoff? I assume you took them out of the cups so the root system has direct contact with the coco fiber?
> 
> I don't do the "lucas formula". What is the NPK and micro values of that fertilizer? Looking at your plants, I doubt it they need such high PPM values. You have to match your plant food with the requirements of the plants, and don't push them! Let they find their own pace.
> 
> UB


http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm here is the lucas formula profile I am using. 

_N-P-K-Mg/__84-67-187-50_

Last night I decided to water one bank and leave the other bank untouched. I came back this morning to find that they both look about the same accept the bank I watered had some leaves curling upward with some of the older leaves having some brown and yellow spots on them. The new leaves on all the plants are curling downward still. 

Maybe the ph is wrong because when I checked on my ph'd formula it was at 7 instead of the 5.8 I had when I mixed it. I wonder if the vinegar is not correcting the ph properly?


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## the church man (Nov 17, 2009)

the church man said:


> thanks tio! i just wanted to clarify some things....
> 
> this plant was topped three weeks ago. it has three nice sized colas on it and multiple smaller ones. a couple days ago i was tying down one of the main colas it snapped a couple nodes down from the top. so, after supporting it, i've noticed explosive growth on the two nodes below the break.
> 
> ...


 
que tal tio?

i just wanted to update everyone on the situation. after the stem partially broke it was splinted and left to get better. the two nodes directly beneath the break exploded into growth as if that stem had been topped. the area above the break didn't even flinch and kept on growing. actually, this broken top was my first to show pistils, and is my biggest top. 

so.... all is well and looking better than before i clumsily snapped the stem.


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## Sexxxy Beast (Nov 17, 2009)

Day 3

As stated this morning I watered the plants on the left bank last night and they appear to have gotten a little worst. 

Here are the photos....

As you can see the plant in the photo has developed some grey/brown and yellow spots on the old leaf. The top of the plant with the new leaf is still curled.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 17, 2009)

Sexxxy Beast said:


> http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm here is the lucas formula profile I am using.
> 
> _N-P-K-Mg/__84-67-187-50_


Say what?

They're toast.

Excuse me, but Lucas and his drills are questionable, as you and thousands of others have found out.


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## the church man (Nov 17, 2009)

uh...

sexxybeast... the information that you posted is wrong. the link that you posted says that the "lucas formula" N-P-K-Mg is *122-99-171-68 *. The values that you posted (N-P-K-Mg/_84-67-187-50) are from Mel Frank's Insider's Guide, _not the lucas formula.

I just wanted to clear that up. And just to help you out with the nutrient regimen that you are using, Lucas recommends something like either feeding around 30% of full strength or feeding full strength every third feeding. 

you said that you feed at 500 ppm and then at 947ppm. i agree with uncle ben that this is too high. following lucas you should have watered at around 300-350 ppm both times. your plants look too small for a near full feeding of 947ppm. by the way, are you using a meter @.5 conversion? 

it seems that you've been feeding too strongly. then you allowed your medium to dry out.

uncle ben,

i believe that the question that sexxxy beast is trying to ask is " " " how strong and how often should i be feeding an NPK of *122-99-171-*68 in a soil-less medium? and if i overfeed how can i fix it? " " "


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## Sexxxy Beast (Nov 18, 2009)

the church man said:


> uh...
> 
> sexxybeast... the information that you posted is wrong. the link that you posted says that the "lucas formula" N-P-K-Mg is *122-99-171-68 *. The values that you posted (N-P-K-Mg/_84-67-187-50) are from Mel Frank's Insider's Guide, _not the lucas formula.
> 
> ...


Well now that I realize I over fed them, I do want to change that, I read that i can flush them out with nutrient less water. BUT i am worried that if i flush them, they will get even more water stress. Should I or shouldnt I?

Here is a couple snaps the bank of plants (first row of plants) that I watered again with nutrient solution. 

The hardest part of this whole thing is trying to help them only makes it worst. Its hard to just let them do their thing. I have alot invested in this, like $600 in this grow room, plants, license etc.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 18, 2009)

the church man said:


> uh...
> 
> sexxybeast... the information that you posted is wrong. the link that you posted says that the "lucas formula" N-P-K-Mg is *122-99-171-68 *. The values that you posted (N-P-K-Mg/_84-67-187-50) are from Mel Frank's Insider's Guide, _not the lucas formula.


I don't remember Mel using such terms. He uses normal, lay person terms like 10-15-10.

Glad things worked out church man. 

If you want my help, you need to please answer my questions, post 548 sexxybeast.



> I just wanted to clear that up. And just to help you out with the nutrient regimen that you are using, Lucas recommends something like either feeding around 30% of full strength or feeding full strength every third feeding.


And herein lies the problem with Lucas aka "newbie" and his "formulas". Plants are dynamic, they have different requirements depending on their size, vigor, genes, outside influences, etc. For Lucas to recommend any kind of black/white feeding schedule reflects his lack of knowledge of plant dynamics and botany. You don't read Lucas, you learn to read your plants.

Having said that, I might be able to help if someone can translate the exact NPK values AND micros that the plants are receiving. They look like they are under salts stress, see my sig link.

Good luck,
UB


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## the church man (Nov 18, 2009)

these elemental values were obtained from the bottom of that link that sexxxy beast posted. i don't know how accurate they are.




The purple values are for 8mL of Micro per one gallon U.S

The red values are for 16mL of Bloom per one US gallon
Element (symbol)
Guaranteed Analysis
ppm

Nitrogen (N) as Nitrate (NO3) 122ppm 

Nitrogen (N) as Ammonium (NH4) 8ppm


Nitrogen (N) as Urea (NH2)


Nitrogen Total (N) 130ppm

Phosphorus (P) as P2O5 106ppm

Potassium (K) as K2O 22ppm 161ppm

Magnesium (Mg) 73ppm

Sulfur (S) 49ppm

Calcium (Ca) 130ppm

Iron (Fe) 2.5932ppm

Boron (B)

Manganese (Mn) 1.2966ppm

Zinc (Zn)

Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0207ppm

Sodium (Na)

Copper (Cu)

Chlorine Cl

Cobalt Co 0.013ppm

Silicon (Si)

Selenium (Se)




Uncle Ben,

What is a good, base nutrient profile to feed? i understand that there are many variables that change throughout the life cycle, but if you could give me a balanced profile that worked for as many different stages of growth what would it be?

i'm still learning about these NPK values and i want to get them right


muchisimos gracias tio


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 18, 2009)

the church man said:


> these elemental values were obtained from the bottom of that link that sexxxy beast posted. i don't know how accurate they are.


Thanks, and it's just what I expected to find and the reason why I don't respect the "Lucas formula" and his recommendations that so many blindly follow. Notice it isn't complete and there's too much K relative to N? There's problems with it like very little iron, no zinc...... Unless I'm missing something, it looks like it can't promote chlorophyll production and maintenance.

I'm gonna give you a couple of links and let you do your own homework.

First, I'm not pushing Dyna-Gro necessarily, but notice in their specs sheets they contain 16 elements? They are complete. Do a google search on nutrient elements.

http://www.dyna-gro.com/

More.....
http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

A 9-3-6 and a 3-9-6 is all you need. Grow for the most amount of foliage (and roots) up to harvest. Don't focus on bud production which is based on plant health and lots of leaves.

Good luck,
UB


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## Vnice (Nov 18, 2009)

Hey Uncle Ben & crew =)

-10.21 Germed paper towel
-10.23 dropped in rockwool. 
-10.26 all 18 sprouted took away the dome and begin lighting
-11.13 the 11 remaining sproutlings were moved as op safety compromised, growth had noticeably slowed already tho. 

-Bagseed, 8 yr old seeds, stored in dark n airtight but not froze
-op was not at my home, I spent an hour a day with the babies, possible low humidity from lack of misting and a couple hours of 90 temp before corrected.
-rockwool is directly placed into happy frog (old) mixed with some extra perlite

Since the move, and for the days before, growth on these babies has been stunted. Growth has seemed to resumed since but is slowed and the three healthiest are droopy...007.jpg019.jpg022.jpg024.jpg027.jpg

Possible culprits:
-overwatering (my first consideration, to try to rectify, I did not water from before 11.13 until 11.17)
-old seeds
-root bound
-humidity too low (removed the cover once they had popped open, previous caretaker did not regularly mist)

Thoughts?

Much appreciated,
~V~


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## DaveCoulier (Nov 18, 2009)

UB is gonna have your balls in a vice for using paper towel germination. I dont understand why you pre-germed, placed in rockwool, then placed into soil. If you had planted the seeds directly into the soil to begin with(no pre-germ) you'd see seeds popping the surface in 3-4 days. Not sure how much longer it'd take with 8 year old seeds. I doubt humidity is your problem. My seedlings are under 400w MH as soon as they break the surface. I dont mist them, nor do I use humidity domes, and they're growing just fine. Im not sure what UB's stance is on humidity domes are for seedlings, but Id say their not at all necessary. 

I think you can also scratch off rootbound from your list. Not really sure what is the cause of their stunting, but hopefully UB can help you out.


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## Vnice (Nov 18, 2009)

ow. my boys just leapt at the thought ;P Well, rockwool seemed to be highly recommended and my biz partner decided to get some. I have used towel before, and just tweezer em in taproot down for a headstart... I defintely could agree that it's overkill in steps. Cutting out either or both might have helped. The age of the seeds is prolly attributing to a big % of the failing, unfortunately, since I was hoping to iron out process before dropping something more srs than bagseed and now I'm second guessing everything >.< preciate the input!
~V~


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## razoredge (Nov 18, 2009)

I just want to say thanks to all that have added to this thread. I am a life long learner and this site has helped me out so much with small problems that i have never addressed before,


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 19, 2009)

DaveCoulier said:


> UB is gonna have your balls in a vice for using paper towel germination. I dont understand why you pre-germed, placed in rockwool, then placed into soil.


Let me just ratchet this thing down one more turn so it's nice and tight. 

I doubt if they make it, and if they do they'll probably be stunted for life and not very productive. My view of cannabis (and some other plants) is that once it's stunted it never fully recovers or at least never reaches its fullest genetically pre-determined full potential. IOW, cannabis should be grown fast and furious and never be deprived of the proper food, water, light, etc. 

Tents are not needed for seedlings, only cuttings. If you need a tent for a seedling, you need to learn how to grow a good root system.



razoredge said:


> I just want to say thanks to all that have added to this thread. I am a life long learner and this site has helped me out so much with small problems that i have never addressed before,


We appreciate that! It's all about the tweeks.


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## starhawk2888 (Nov 25, 2009)

I got a quick question that may have been answered already. Could improper light placement cause the tips to curl up, leaves to turn a little yellow, and stunted growth? I have a couple lowryder autoflowers going and both of them have that problem. I guess i'm trying to rule out moisture stress because, lighting seems like a much bigger issue in my room.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 25, 2009)

Can someone help out a newbie. I'm having trouble telling the difference between underwatering & overwatering. As I understand it the leaves droop if I do either, so how do you tell the difference between underwatering & overwatering?

I started with 8 plants of various strains. The other 7 plants are doing good, even the 2 Durban Poisons which looked like Bonzai trees when I got them. The first plant bought for this pot died because the lady sold me a clone that was really a clipping. I had done no research on rooting a clipping and I don't have a light weaker than 400w anyway, so needless to say that one died.

I got another clone which turned out to be a clipping in a cube. I peeled away the cube after my last experience looking for roots, that's how I found out the last one was a clipping. I used a 2-liter pepsi bottle to keep it alive overnight and this time the guy swapped it out for a real clone (in the picture). But with this one the dirt was already moist when I planted it because of the clipping I was trying to keep alive.

The water meter read a 5 on a level of 1-10 so I didn't water the first day. The second day the meter read 3.5 and the leaves were starting to droop, so I gave her a cup of water. The third day the leaves were drooping a little worse and the meter once again read about a 3.5, so I gave her another cup of water. This is what she looked like the 4th day (this morning). And the meter is once again reading 3.5. And the leaf in front is starting to get crunchy at the tip of the middle leaf.

Another problem with this one is it came in a cube and I can't test the cube for moisture level. I'm really not comfortable with that but I'm doing the best I can.

At this point I can only assume that I've been overwatering so I'm going to try letting her dry out for a couple of days. Can someone confirm that this is the right way to go?

More importantly, can someone tell me how to tell the difference between an overwatered & underwatered plant in the future?

Thanks, & sorry for being such a newbie.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 25, 2009)

Sorry, forgot the pic for the above message.

BTW, the mix is 1/3 perlite & 2/3 soil.


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## whiterhino007 (Nov 25, 2009)

hi all. im new to this and in need of help. ive attached some pics of my plants there white rhino and at 3 weeks of flower. the problem is the leaves are going yellow and droopy, is this to much nutes


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 25, 2009)

starhawk2888 said:


> I got a quick question that may have been answered already. Could improper light placement cause the tips to curl up, leaves to turn a little yellow, and stunted growth?


Sure can, and has happened to me often, always heat related though. I've found that once those leaves curl, get a little crispy, they never return to normal. Turning yellow is not good, means they are getting too much light normally, or not enough N.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 25, 2009)

I know I haven't gotten an answer to my last question yet, but I already have another.

This plant started as a clone, I planter her 12 days ago. I'm using Foxfarm Ocean Forrest with a 1/3 perlite & 2/3 soil mix. I also mixed in 2 tablespoons of blood meal (12-0-0) and 2 tablespoons of bone meal (0-10-0) into each 5 gallon pot.

2 leaves on the bottom are very light green. Not really yellow I don't think, just kinda very light green. One of the leaves also has some damage, I think from accidentally getting water on it during one of the waterings.

Could she need nutes already? Or can the nutes in the dirt plus what I added be burning her?


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## bestbet06 (Nov 25, 2009)

do the plants still produce buds if overfert. my plant leaves are turning brown from overfertilization and i want to know should i just destroy or will it come back to a healthy life?


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 25, 2009)

New question. The little one has a leaf that's starting to get crispy/crunchy. Is this a sign of over watering, under watering, or nute burn? 

Someone please help before she dies.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 25, 2009)

10 hrs & still no answers. I guess I'm on my own.

Thanks and have a nice holiday everyone.


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## DaveCoulier (Nov 25, 2009)

bestbet06 said:


> do the plants still produce buds if overfert. my plant leaves are turning brown from overfertilization and i want to know should i just destroy or will it come back to a healthy life?


If your leaves are badly turning brown you need to flush to get that excess nutes out. If its a bit of brown at the tips, you'll be fine without flushing.



DannyGreenEyes said:


> New question. The little one has a leaf that's starting to get crispy/crunchy. Is this a sign of over watering, under watering, or nute burn?
> 
> Someone please help before she dies.


Heres a couple of links to help you out Danny. You really need to get better pictures up. Its hard to tell whats wrong with your plants from the pics posted.

http://forum.grasscity.com/sick-plants-problems/228558-brownish-orange-spots-mag-def.html

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/216537-self-diagnose-your-plants.html


http://www.ganjaguerrilla.net/index.htm


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 25, 2009)

DaveCoulier said:


> If your leaves are badly turning brown you need to flush to get that excess nutes out. If its a bit of brown at the tips, you'll be fine without flushing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Thanks, those links are helpful.

The little one was underwatered, a problem that there's unfortunately little info on how to identify. But I carefully dug out the cube a minute ago and the cube was bone dry. So I gave her 2 cups of water and I'll check on her in a little bit. At this point I may have to put a half of a 2-litre bottle over her and mist heavily like she was a clipping, poor girl is so dry.

The other problem may be nitrogen burn, I've also seen a few leaf tips burned and one leaf has brown spots. That 3rd link showed each of these under the nute burn pics. Very little of the plant material (8 plants collectively) looks like it's been burned.

I'm using Foxfarm Ocean Forrest and I mixed in 2 teaspoons of blood meal (12-0-0) & 2 tablespoons of bone meal (0-10-0)with each 5 gallon pot. I thought that was a safe mix. 

Can anyone tell me if the plants will be ok as they get older or if I need to flush the soil?

If I need to flush, one of those links said to flush I need to use 3 gallons of water for every 1 gallon of dirt. That's 15 gallons of water for each 5 gallon pot. Talk about overwatering. lol Can anyone tell me if this is right or if I can get away with flushing with less water considering the current nute level?

Also, if I need to flush how old or tall should the plants be to handle that much water without dying? (The pots have drainage holes at the bottom and I'm sure I'll need to do this in the bathtub, but the soil is still going to end up saturated and will probably take a few days to dry out)


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## DaveCoulier (Nov 25, 2009)

Its recommended to use 2-3x the volume of the pot when flushing. 

Did your problems start after putting the clone into the new soil? If so, perhaps it did get burned. They look a bit small. Perhaps it was too much too soon. Have they gotten any worse the longer they've stayed in the soil? When I burned a couple of my plants it was very minor and never got any worse.

Ive yet to ever flush(im a newbie too). Im unsure how flushing would work on organic nutes like the meals in the soil. 

I dont think you need to worry about your plants dying from one flushing. It would take repeated over-watering to eventually kill them.


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 25, 2009)

DaveCoulier said:


> Its recommended to use 2-3x the volume of the pot when flushing.
> 
> Did your problems start after putting the clone into the new soil? If so, perhaps it did get burned. They look a bit small. Perhaps it was too much too soon. Have they gotten any worse the longer they've stayed in the soil? When I burned a couple of my plants it was very minor and never got any worse.
> 
> ...


There was some minor leaf damage before I planted, but I clipped those leaves so I could keep track of what happened after I planted. I didn't want to get confused by older damage. So any damage that's there now was done after planting.

Also the plant with the one leaf that's damaged the most (only 1 where damage is more than minor) came planted in a 20oz Pepsi bottle. I did the best I could to cut it out of the bottle without stressing the roots too much, but I'm sure they got stressed some. It's hard as heck to get them out of bottles shaped like that. That may be a contributing factor in the damage to that leaf.

The little one is brand new, only 4 days old. The other one was planted 12 days ago with the other 6, and it's actually one of the two fastest growers so far. I know the pic isn't good (gotta get a real camera) but it's at least doubled the number of leaves since I planted her.

I'm glad to hear that you didn't need to flush. There's only about 6 leaves total with any damage at all, and (except for that one leaf) they only have very minor damage. So I'll keep my eye on them but I think maybe I wont need to flush. *knock on wood*

On the next grow I'll try the soil without bone or blood meal and if I'm still having problems I'll try a different soil with less nutes.

Thanks for all your help man. I hope I can return the favor.


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## DaveCoulier (Nov 25, 2009)

I probably wouldn't put too much stock in root stress causing problems. On my very first transplants, one rootball collapsed in my hands, and I ripped about 2 inches of roots away from the other ones rootball. The one who had ripped roots kept right on growing like nothing ever happened. The one with the collapsed RB didn't grow anymore for 5 days, but no visible signs of stress on the leaves. MJ is pretty resilient and will resists our attempts to fuck things up .

I hope your plants continue to get well. Things may seem like the end of the world when you see problems on the leaves, but its not. Check out pics of my plant on the previous page. I ended up losing 4 leaves but the plant is looking nice and healthy now. She was just begging for some food. Who knew under-feeding could cause so many problems?


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 26, 2009)

DaveCoulier said:


> I probably wouldn't put too much stock in root stress causing problems. On my very first transplants, one rootball collapsed in my hands, and I ripped about 2 inches of roots away from the other ones rootball. The one who had ripped roots kept right on growing like nothing ever happened. The one with the collapsed RB didn't grow anymore for 5 days, but no visible signs of stress on the leaves. MJ is pretty resilient and will resists our attempts to fuck things up .
> 
> I hope your plants continue to get well. Things may seem like the end of the world when you see problems on the leaves, but its not. Check out pics of my plant on the previous page. I ended up losing 4 leaves but the plant is looking nice and healthy now. She was just begging for some food. Who knew under-feeding could cause so many problems?


lol, yeah thank god they're resilient too, I think I might have a black thumb. lol

Thanks, I'm only really worried right now about the little one that I underwatered. But at this point if she don't live then fuck it, I'll just have to make do with 1 less plant.

I don't mean to sound so stressed. I know I'm stressed by other stuff that's going on in my life right now. But I think mostly I sound stressed because I'm trying to learn as much as possible as quickly as I can so I don't have to ask these questions on my next grow.

Well I'm gonna take a sleeping pill & get some sleep and when I wake up tommorow I'll know if I have 7 or 8 plants. Thanks again for all your help.

BTW, if you need a good & cheap odor controller check out this thread. I advise using ONA, not Febreeze. And there are 2 versions, one for room odor control (begining of thread) & I redesigned it to be an inline odor eliminator (end of thread). https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/99452-diy-febreze-odor-control-bucket.html

I hope that helps you save money at some point.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 26, 2009)

DannyGreenEyes said:


> Can someone help out a newbie. I'm having trouble telling the difference between underwatering & overwatering. As I understand it the leaves droop if I do either, so how do you tell the difference between underwatering & overwatering?


You have to analyze your day to day processes. If the plant is droopy and the pot is light to the lift, it probably isn't getting enough water. If the plant is droopy and you've been watering frequently, then it probably isn't getting enough water. Difference? Root system is OK on one and rotted on the other. Copius watering is not an issue unless it excludes air. 



> The water meter read a 5 on a level of 1-10 so I didn't water the first day. The second day the meter read 3.5 and the leaves were starting to droop, so I gave her a cup of water.


Don't measure, water well to a point of alot of runoff. BTW, I wouldn't put too much value on those meters. 

Like I said...... V



> The third day the leaves were drooping a little worse and the meter once again read about a 3.5, so I gave her another cup of water. This is what she looked like the 4th day (this morning). And the *meter is once again reading 3.5.* And the leaf in front is starting to get crunchy at the tip of the middle leaf.


Moisture stress.



> Another problem with this one is it came in a cube and I can't test the cube for moisture level. I'm really not comfortable with that but I'm doing the best I can.
> 
> At this point I can only assume that I've been overwatering so I'm going to try letting her dry out for a couple of days. Can someone confirm that this is the right way to go?


Yeah, but don't be surprised if it never fully recovers. 

There are soil drenches available that will kill soil borne fungus spores of different types if indeed it is a case of root rot. You need to LOOK at the root system and decide on whether it's worth saving or not.

Good luck,
UB


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## starhawk2888 (Nov 26, 2009)

Uncle Ben,

I think i'm having the opposite problem. Not enough light and the room itself being a little bit chilly (sometimes it feels like it get to around 60 degrees f. with the lights off). Im adding more light as we speak, and have the smallest mini heater with a variable speed and temp settings that was available. They look much better with just the warmer air circulating around them though. They are just taking sooo long to grow, especially the autoflowering seeds from lowryder.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 26, 2009)

Fellers, the success of this hobby is dependent on the sum of the parts. If one part of the link is weak, don't expect things to work out. Why attempt to grow if you can't provide your plants with what they need regarding temps, light, watering, 16 essential elements, etc? You're just pissin' into the wind unless you have your program dialed in correctly.

Good luck,
UB


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## Jesse333 (Nov 28, 2009)

would you maybe know why my leaves are turning yellow ? there not cupping or turning or anything there just going yellow .... i am using soil with a growtex grow formula .... shes about a month old ...i dont over water always let soil dry before watering again ...but not dry fully all the time... i just cant get it maybe you can help ??


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 28, 2009)

Jesse333 said:


> would you maybe know why my leaves are turning yellow ? there not cupping or turning or anything there just going yellow .... i am using soil with a growtex grow formula .... shes about a month old ...i dont over water always let soil dry before watering again ...but not dry fully all the time... i just cant get it maybe you can help ??


 
It's hard to tell without a pic. Here are a couple of places that posts pics so you can figure out which problem you have...

http://www.ganjaguerrilla.net/index.htm
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/216537-self-diagnose-your-plants.html
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/157345-have-plant-problem-check-here.html

I hope that helps


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## bestbet06 (Nov 30, 2009)

i know i overwatered my babies so if i don't water it for a while will the leaves start to uncurl?


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## DaveCoulier (Dec 1, 2009)

bestbet06 said:


> i know i overwatered my babies so if i don't water it for a while will the leaves start to uncurl?


Yeah the leaves will begin to perk up again after 2-4 days depending on how quickly your medium dries out.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 1, 2009)

bestbet06 said:


> i know i overwatered my babies so if i don't water it for a while will the leaves start to uncurl?


I doubt it. You've probably screwed up the health of the root system (induced rot). I've also found that once this kind of stress reaction occurs, it usually never returns to normal. Let us know with a few pix in a couple of days.

UB


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## DaveCoulier (Dec 1, 2009)

Heh. I guess UB feels you completely flooded them . I guess it depends on how badly you over-watered them and how often you do it. I over-watered my recent seedlings to the point they get nitrogen and calcium deficiency on lowest two sets of leaves. I lost a couple of leaves, and got a fair bit of damage done to them, but they've all perked up now and are growing better. 

Hopefully UB's prediction of doom doesn't come to pass.


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## Sexxxy Beast (Dec 1, 2009)

Sexxxy Beast said:


> Well now that I realize I over fed them, I do want to change that, I read that i can flush them out with nutrient less water. BUT i am worried that if i flush them, they will get even more water stress. Should I or shouldnt I?
> 
> Here is a couple snaps the bank of plants (first row of plants) that I watered again with nutrient solution.
> 
> The hardest part of this whole thing is trying to help them only makes it worst. Its hard to just let them do their thing. I have alot invested in this, like $600 in this grow room, plants, license etc.


I was reading that the lucas formula is supposed to use 1000-1300 ppm, I am not having any luck with a reduced formula, infact the whole plant is turning yellow, the stem is purple, etc. Even on the GH website it states that for mild growth I need 900 on new plants then ramp it up from there.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 2, 2009)

Sexxxy Beast said:


> I was reading that the lucas formula is supposed to use 1000-1300 ppm, I am not having any luck with a reduced formula, infact the whole plant is turning yellow, the stem is purple, etc. Even on the GH website it states that for mild growth I need 900 on new plants then ramp it up from there.


Obviously, the "Lucas formula" doesn't work well but folks keep using it because of all the talk. I've analyzed his recommendation and found it lacking in N and certain micros. You want a complete hydro food? Then go with Dyna-Gro.

It's all about the degree and ratio of elements, don't get hung up on ppm. If you ramp up K by increasing the overall amount, which locks out the most important plant elements - N, Mg, and Ca...... then you haven't given your plants what they require. There is an antagonistic elemental concept you guys need to understand before running off hitting them with this and that. http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm 

Good luck,
UB


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## stasis (Dec 3, 2009)

Hey uncle ben, weed god 

Im curious to what you may think the problem with these plants are? There are 5 plants, some have one symptom, some have another symptom , the others have all the symptoms in the pictures.
The symptoms are twisted leaves , one or two have small holes in them , and some have the yellow tips/ patches as can be seen.

Also don't you think that these plants have a great spacing between their shoots , to say they are only small ( probably 5-6 inches tall ). However they are very short for 5 week old plants, but i think they were stressed at the start by introducing too much fertilizer, too quickly. Not to mention that they are being grown in a VERY soft water area, and hard water ionic nutrients were used for a week or two at the start of nutrient introduction.

Any help would be appreciated. PH 6 , canna a+b nutes, canna coco coir medium.250w hps 18/6 .

Canna recommend ph 5.5 - 6.2 for their coir + nutrients.
When they were started off , using the hard water nutrients , the ph was as low as 4.5 - and one or two plants showed the same symptoms, but one really thrived and was at least twice as big as the rest lol.
Could jumping from 4.5 to 6 upset them ?

My first guess was magnesium deficiency, but im not so sure now.

edit : also i've just remembered that the plants have been moved. The plants were less wilted before the location was changed, and now they live with a lower temperature. Could a low temp be causing problems?


























picture 1 : nasty yellow patches
2 : hole in leafs 
3 : twisted leaf
4 : the best plant


Thanks


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 4, 2009)

The dots are the start of leaf necrosis. A leaf doesn't drop overnight, it first shows symptoms of a plant that is in stress. Probably nute related.

They do indeed look stunted, probably due to a lack of N.


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## biggun (Dec 8, 2009)

All good info man thanks a bunch.


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## piredneck7 (Dec 10, 2009)

i have brand new seedlings i had gerinated in a paper towel. the leaves that are coming out are really small and curled up. also they are differennt sizes than each other. the plant is trying to come out with its first set of 3fingered leaves but plant is really stressed does anybody have a clue what is wrong


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## artsychick79 (Dec 10, 2009)

I am a newbie to hydroponics and this is my first growand I'm having a few problems. Below are pictures of the 2 plants having problems. I don't know if its overwatering, underwatering, too much nutrients or not enough. I'm using Advanced Nutrients Sensi Grow Part A & B. The PH stayed perfect up until a couple days ago when this started. I got the PH back in normal range. My PPM is below 800. It is about at 600ppm. I don't know what to do to reign this back in control before my plants are destroyed. I knew I wouldn't get it right the first time. I expected that. It's a learning process. I've tried reading books on marijuana hydroponics and plant problems and I can't find the answers to fix this. Help!


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## Ebban Flow (Dec 11, 2009)

UB or anyone else that can help, I'm in 5th week of flowering and I have some purple discoloration on my fan leaves from as far as I can tell a lack oh phosphorus (used straight water when I should have added nutes one week). I've taken steps to correct this but I'm wondering if the discoloration will go away once corrected or is it there untill the end now?
Any information or advice is much appreciated, thanks.


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## hubebaba (Dec 11, 2009)

artsychick79 said:


> I am a newbie to hydroponics and this is my first growand I'm having a few problems. Below are pictures of the 2 plants having problems. I don't know if its overwatering, underwatering, too much nutrients or not enough. I'm using Advanced Nutrients Sensi Grow Part A & B. The PH stayed perfect up until a couple days ago when this started. I got the PH back in normal range. My PPM is below 800. It is about at 600ppm. I don't know what to do to reign this back in control before my plants are destroyed. I knew I wouldn't get it right the first time. I expected that. It's a learning process. I've tried reading books on marijuana hydroponics and plant problems and I can't find the answers to fix this. Help!


Looks like over feeding to me. That small you should be at 1/4 dose of nutes. No more than 200 above the ppm of your water.


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## artsychick79 (Dec 11, 2009)

That makes sense. I bet I was giving the dose you give right before you change to flowering. That's really all it says. That one dosage. Doesn't mention what to give when they are little. That would be way too much and would explain the brown burned like edges. I'm going to drain the reservoir and give it fresh water and give it like you told me. Thanks for responding. I appreciate it.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 11, 2009)

Ebban Flow said:


> I've taken steps to correct this but I'm wondering if the discoloration will go away once corrected or is it there untill the end now?
> Any information or advice is much appreciated, thanks.


It won't go away. Try to understand that when a plant gives you these signs, it stating what's to come which is usually necrosis if the problem is not corrected.


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## Ebban Flow (Dec 11, 2009)

UB,
Thanks for the quick reply. I have been reading as many of your posts as I can and attempting to emulate your style of no nonsense growing, staying away from all the bs, and just using common sense and treating it like any other plant. Just wanted to say thank you for taking your time and sharing your knowledge with us that are less experienced than yourself. Thanks dude.


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## powers420 (Dec 12, 2009)

hey man im a first time grower just got a couple clones they look healthy iv been doin 18/6 on light but im starting to get holes in the center of the leafs anything u can tell me to help me out befor it gets to bad


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## artsychick79 (Dec 13, 2009)

hubebaba said:


> Looks like over feeding to me. That small you should be at 1/4 dose of nutes. No more than 200 above the ppm of your water.


Thank you so much for the quick reply. You were right. It was overfeeding. I cut back on the nutes to what you said and the first plant that was least affected has now doubled in size and is doing great. The one that had alot of brown on the edges has healthy leaves coming out so we'll see how that one goes. I appreciate you helping me out.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 13, 2009)

Ebban Flow said:


> UB,
> Thanks for the quick reply. I have been reading as many of your posts as I can and attempting to emulate your style of no nonsense growing, staying away from all the bs, and just using common sense and treating it like any other plant. Just wanted to say thank you for taking your time and sharing your knowledge with us that are less experienced than yourself. Thanks dude.


You got it. It's all about botany and balancing all horticultural growth factors. The sooner you understand NPK values of the products you're using, the better.

Good luck,
UB


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## Kriegs (Dec 14, 2009)

Hey, Uncle Ben...

Just a quick shout-out from Kriegs, who is back in da' house growing another round of fine dro.

Hope all is well with you, brother. I see you're still dispensing wisdom, and showing others just how simple this can be (if you let it..).

Growing some bubblelicious and superskunk this year, two indica dom's to supplant my still voluminous sativa stash from last year.

This grow will be even more minimalistic than last years, with the benefit of experience. And already, I'm ahead of last years' curve for it..

Here it is: 

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/280742-tis-season-bubblelicious-superskunk-400w.html

Not very exciting, not yet at least.

Take care...ciao..


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 14, 2009)

Hey Kriegs, good to see you back in the house and nice to hear you understand the KISS principle. I'll have gander at your journal.

cya ~


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## jimigreen (Dec 16, 2009)

Since changing to 5gal. buckets, no drain holes, and sunshine LC8 , ive had trouble getting a watering schedule figured out. 
when first putting new soil in buckets, how much water should you use get it wet first off.
i think i used a bit too much,
1/2 gal.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 16, 2009)

jimigreen said:


> Since changing to 5gal. buckets, no drain holes, and sunshine LC8 , ive had trouble getting a watering schedule figured out.


You can't be serious. You mean they're not dead yet? You must have drainholes. The amount of water is moot, it's the drainage that counts.


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## jimigreen (Dec 17, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> You can't be serious. You mean they're not dead yet? You must have drainholes. The amount of water is moot, it's the drainage that counts.


seriously,this has been done with good results. 2 lbs under 1000 w hps , the friend that did it isnt around to help with this now. i us lc8 with my vegging plants, holes in pots, if watering till holes leak, thats a lot of water. soil would take weeks to dry out? holes or not. ive never used soil that retained like this. i have 15 yrs of hydro growing with great results in my home built pipe system. water i know, dirt is a new challenge. if you think holes will help, i'll give it a shot. but if you have not tryed sunshine lc8 , you might be amazed in the water retention. ive been trying it for 4mths. nothing dying,lots of yellow though . best round ,1lb. worst 130g. 9 hawgs. i'm here to learn ,and help where i can. any good advice is welcome.


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## DaveCoulier (Dec 17, 2009)

Sunshine LC8 is a peat moss based medium w/ vermiculite, so of course it will hold lots of water. If you've been having yellowing issues with your plants, then you've most likely been over-watering considering no drainage holes..


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 17, 2009)

jimigreen said:


> seriously,this has been done with good results. 2 lbs under 1000 w hps , the friend that did it isnt around to help with this now.


I understand, but he had his program down pat.



> i us lc8 with my vegging plants, holes in pots, if watering till holes leak, thats a lot of water. soil would take weeks to dry out? holes or not. ive never used soil that retained like this. i have 15 yrs of hydro growing with great results in my home built pipe system. water i know, dirt is a new challenge. if you think holes will help, i'll give it a shot. but if you have not tryed sunshine lc8 , you might be amazed in the water retention. ive been trying it for 4mths. nothing dying,lots of yellow though . best round ,1lb. worst 130g. 9 hawgs. i'm here to learn ,and help where i can. any good advice is welcome.


If the soil takes weeks to dry out, then you have several issues working against you, one is putting the plant into too big of a pot. 

BUT, if you had a robust root system with abundant foliage, your soil would dry out quickly due to the wicking action of the plant. Based on transpiration thru a plant's leaves, a negative water pressure, turgor if you will, is established within the plant's tissues. Thru capillary action and the internal negative pressure water is drawn out of the root zone, across the plant's root epidermal gradient and finally into the plant.

You are approaching this soil thing all wrong and are surely setting yourself up for failure based on what someone else did. Don't do that, do what works best for YOU.

This is the type of rootball that insures you won't have root rot or an overwatering issue. It's a pure Zamal sativa, topped to 4 main colas with a rootball at least 3' long and very fibrous. It would be almost impossible to overwater this plant due to the exceptional wicking action of the leaves and root system. 

Excess water can be collected using a plant saucer, withdrawn using a turkey baster, deposited into a plastic milk jug and then used as a tea for other plants. Recycle!








Good luck,
UB


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## jimigreen (Dec 17, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> I understand, but he had his program down pat.
> 
> thanx that was a huge help, i understand that plant size is a factor. if holes help in drying, i'm drillin. i have cutback on watering the last week , things are much better. i have been transplanting them at 18in into 5gal's , to be clear, with holes i water till they leak, then wait till they dry up? i know plant size is a factor in how long.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 17, 2009)

jimigreen said:


> Uncle Ben said:
> 
> 
> > I understand, but he had his program down pat.
> ...


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## jimigreen (Dec 17, 2009)

i had been watering light, less than a liter per pot, to keep from over wetting. but noticed roots were clustering near the surface. instead of venturing thru out the pot. what your saying would cause them to expand to the bottem instead, that makes sence.
with holes i can water till they leak, then wait till the pot lightens up before saturating again? just makin sure we are on the same page, i want to get this right badly, hydro was so easy, but i have to move on.


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## alexuk (Dec 17, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Thanks Dirtfree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thought i was over/underwatering but i was puzzled coz i been watering with 1 small cup once a day which i thought was reasonable, but now i know its coz its potbound.

i didnt wanna move to bigger pot coz its just a cuple weeks off and i dont wanna spend money on a new pot or stress the plant by transplanting it, as a result i have less foliar growth at the top of the plant and the stuff that is there is curled downwards, will this affect bud production :O?


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## DaveCoulier (Dec 17, 2009)

alexuk said:


> thought i was over/underwatering but i was puzzled coz i been watering with 1 small cup once a day which i thought was reasonable, but now i know its coz its potbound.
> 
> i didnt wanna move to bigger pot coz its just a cuple weeks off and i dont wanna spend money on a new pot or stress the plant by transplanting it, as a result i have less foliar growth at the top of the plant and the stuff that is there is curled downwards, will this affect bud production :O?


I made a big post, then realized that maybe you have already transplanted. If not, let me know and Ill add it to this post


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 18, 2009)

jimigreen said:


> i had been watering light, less than a liter per pot, to keep from over wetting. but noticed roots were clustering near the surface. instead of venturing thru out the pot. what your saying would cause them to expand to the bottem instead, that makes sence.
> with holes i can water till they leak, then wait till the pot lightens up before saturating again? just makin sure we are on the same page, i want to get this right badly, hydro was so easy, but i have to move on.


Sounds like your practices are based on feelings, not facts. When you water, water thoroughly so you get alot of runoff thru the drainholes. You don't want any dry channels or spots in the pot.

UB


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## jimigreen (Dec 19, 2009)

your probably right, this is not a factor in hydro, which is all i've done. i drilled them out, found dryness in the bottoms. soaked them till they pee'd good, now i wait for them to lighten. thanx for good answers, with minimum roasting.


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## jumboSWISHER (Dec 20, 2009)

can someone help me diagnose this? this is my first grow. i flushed 3 days ago becasue i had a ph problem. and now i think they are root bound, the soil is very compact and i can see roots about 1/2 inch under the top of the soil. thanks for any help


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## jumboSWISHER (Dec 20, 2009)

im wondering if it could b over watering from flushing, or moisture stress? the top of the soil feel really dry, witch is weird cuz usually when i flush it feels wet for about 6 days and it feels dry after 3?? any help is VERY appreciated


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## purplehaze903 (Dec 21, 2009)

I have a plant that was doing great 2 days ago then over night her leafs went black and crispy and her other leafs curled up. I dont know if its from heat. I have 2 125w dAylight cfl's and on their sides they have 1 75w daylight cfl. I have them in a box with foil around it. They are in 4 inch rockwool. They have been growing pretty slow and they are 2 weeks old. aNy ideas?


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 21, 2009)

jumboSWISHER said:


> im wondering if it could b over watering from flushing, or moisture stress? the top of the soil feel really dry, witch is weird cuz usually when i flush it feels wet for about 6 days and it feels dry after 3?? any help is VERY appreciated


Don't concern yourself with the top of the soil, that's not where the roots are located. Water when the plant feels light to the lift if you're unsure of when. And when you water, water well, not measured.


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## wyteboi (Dec 26, 2009)

UB , i am back again with same probs , just months later 

I have been dealing with a "lockout" (not really sure anymore?) for over six months now, i _thought_ i fixed the prob by switching from MG mix w/extra perlite to Pro Mix because shortly after that they were very healthy. (but i also raised my light way up at the same time so still wasnt really sure which one "fixed" um but with those 2 changes they made *drastic* improvement in just a week , and within a month they looked like plants again (nice and dark green, not purple stems and yellow leaves) here are pics of before and after in this thread :
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/207026-i-feel-like-newb-please.html

so they did fine until about the end of first week of bloom, then i started noticing the dark green turn into light green and they just went downhill throughout bloom , and harvest was nothing compared to what it _should_ have been.
Ok so then the next batch did fine until about the 2nd week of bloom and then they lost all the fan leaves very quick and again went downhill all the way until about week 7 of bloom and then they "appeared" to be enjoying life just a lil bit better then weeks prior...? so i finished again with WAY less then it should have been.
Ok now on this batch , this "lockout" shit started right away with the lil ones (beginning of veg) so i figured it HAD to be my tap water so i switched to RO . 
They seem to be looking better but its been 4 or 5 waterings since then , so i just got some new organic nutes to try instead of Earthjuice (very acidic and "picky" food but i believe the ph part will buffer itself in the dirt?) 
i just dont know whats going on anymore , can u please help? i been doing this along time and learning more and more everyday, but i have not been able to fix this one ?
also i always use N in bloom (not much less then in veg)
i always thought a plant could grow fine without any nutes (just not to full potintial) but i guess i was wrong? i am scared to death of over ferting so could it be i just need to pump up the food a lil ?
(i already tried more/less food w/earthjuice but that was when i was using tap water ???
Thanks for all your help UB! 


oh i also wanted to add that recently my mothers (under floro's) are starting to flower on their own? (3 different strains , one is really "forming" buds? WTF? thanks again


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 27, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> so they did fine until about the end of first week of bloom, then i started noticing the dark green turn into light green and they just went downhill throughout bloom , and harvest was nothing compared to what it _should_ have been.
> Ok so then the next batch did fine until about the 2nd week of bloom and then they lost all the fan leaves very quick


What did you do to induce such a change? Sounds like the typical bloom food drill to me.

Good luck,
UB


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## wyteboi (Dec 27, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> What did you do to induce such a change? Sounds like the typical bloom food drill to me.
> 
> Good luck,
> UB


NO major changes at all , i might of went from 1tsp of bloom food to 2tsp, (after the light change) but that is still less then 50% of recommended dose. I never go by the bottle for feeding 
I had not yet even lowered the N. (i never really lower it much anyway)

Very good air flow , consistent temps.
The "problem" has been there through 3 grows and 4or 5 different strains but is never consistent. Yes it has happened twice at the beginning of bloom but it has also happened twice in veg? (only 1 grow has made it through veg with no probs until beginning of bloom)
i have changed soil mix, water, light, and tinkered with the ph a lil. i even added extra micorizzal to the soil. (i know i didnt spell it right) 
The only thing that has "stayed the same" through all this mess has been the food (earthjuice) 
i just now changed the food to humboldt organics but its only been a couple of days.
Has it been the food this whole fuckin last 4 years UB? 
Before these last years of probs , i just used MG mix (or any "fluffy mix w/nutes" thats cheap) and a lil bit of blood and bone meal in the mix. I have done it this way several times with good results.
The only reason i switched to liquid organic food is because i kinda wanted to *know* what i was feeding my soil, plus i wanted to steer away from the chems in MG (merely a preference) 
?????
need anymore info just ask.
Thanks for the quick response UB!

wb


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 27, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> NO major changes at all ,
> wb


Here's your problem - EARTH JUICE BLOOM 0 - 3 - 1. No nitrogen. You can't expect a decent yield if you deprive the plant of sufficient N to maintain leaves. They just sold you crap. I'm not sure why you would stop including blood meal or bone meal. That is some of my main additives to soil.

And just as an aside, based on this ideologically driven propaganda, I wouldn't touch this product with a ten foot pole. "*No hidden NPK boosting synthetics No artificial additives, colors, or vitamins No added chlorine or formaldehyde."

*If those idiots can prove to me that plant food manufacturers such as Peters or Plant Products, or Schultz, etc. add chlorine or formaldehyde, I'll kiss their rosy red label. The organic movement is all a big lie.

Lesson learned - you chose hype over common sense. Go back to your old program that was bringing you success, and shit can the bottled foods.


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## wyteboi (Dec 27, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Here's your problem - EARTH JUICE BLOOM 0 - 3 - 1. No nitrogen. You can't expect a decent yield if you deprive the plant of sufficient N to maintain leaves. They just sold you crap. I'm not sure why you would stop including blood meal or bone meal. That is some of my main additives to soil.


no i would never give my girls more of one single food without compensating with the others. There is no way i would use the bloom by itself. Like i said i did not even reduce the N going into that prob.
I have years of book knowledge and years of hands on but i would never claim to be an "expert" or anything close. 
The main reason i dont even claim to be "good" is because i have never had to deal with major problems like this one. and if i cant correct a problem then i am not good.



Uncle Ben said:


> If those idiots can prove to me that plant food manufacturers such as Peters or Plant Products, or Schultz, etc. add chlorine or formaldehyde, I'll kiss their rosy red label. The organic movement is all a big lie.


i would have to agree and kiss their lil label too if they claimed that shit. I am not into a "movement" of any kind, i started with organics (blood an bone) so i just wanted to stick to what i knew. 



Uncle Ben said:


> Lesson learned - you chose hype over common sense. Go back to your old program that was bringing you success, and shit can the bottled foods.


I wish it was that easy UB. If i thought the shit was toxic to plants i would have never touched it. I didnt read no outragous claims before i bought it, i just walked into the local _"hydro store"_ and asked the lady for a liquid food for dirt. I knew that i would be growing all kinds of strains so i wanted a liquid so i could regulate the food a lil easier. 
I could just switch to hydro and easily get rid of probs but i would much rather stick to dirt and just figure out what happened.
that way in the future i will *know* whats good and bad. 
The ONLY reason i chose organic food is because its the closest thing to blood or bone meal. If i was into the "hype" i would be using botnicare or advanced nutes that do make outragous claims. 
Like you always say, worry about health of whole plant not just buds! 
and thats where i am at. i also am not "against" anything at all, including "chems" . I am open to anything and always will be, i just wanted to kinda let u know where i stand.
Thanks again UB ! always a help

wb


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 27, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> no i would never give my girls more of one single food without compensating with the others. There is no way i would use the bloom by itself. Like i said i did not even reduce the N going into that prob.


Still does not tell me what you used regarding final NPK values. What was the source of N, how much, how often?

Sure there wasn't a pest problem, mites perhaps? 

Could be a slippery slope too. Something goes wrong, you try to second guess it and "correct", correction doesn't work or not given enough time, you try something else only to find problem worsens.........


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## wyteboi (Dec 27, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Still does not tell me what you used regarding final NPK values. What was the source of N, how much, how often?


not too sure how to calculate "final" but this is the npk of what i use: Grow =2-1-1 Bloom=0-3-1, K=0-0-10, always use those 3 for 2 waterings then 1 pure watering. 1TB grow, 1tsp BL, 1/2 tsp K
I add a catalyst once every 1 to 2 weeks, .03-.01-.10 1tsp 
I also add micro-nutes every 1 1/2 to 2 weeks. 1 tsp
also add microbes to mix before planting.
only thing i change in bloom is uping the bloom to 2tsp (if i make it to 1 1/2 TB of grow then i will drop it back down to 1TB after a couple weeks of flowering.


Uncle Ben said:


> Sure there wasn't a pest problem, mites perhaps?


i dont know if i would call it a problem but yes i have always had spider mites. I keep them "under control" to where there may be some white spots from them eating but i dont let them web up. 
i spray with neem every couple weeks.
Im not sure if u seen those pics of mine but its way beyond a single def. its definatly locked out ??
I am stumped . 
Thanks for all the help UB!


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 27, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> not too sure how to calculate "final" but this is the npk of what i use: Grow =2-1-1 Bloom=0-3-1, K=0-0-10, always use those 3 for 2 waterings then 1 pure watering. 1TB grow, 1tsp BL, 1/2 tsp K
> I add a catalyst once every 1 to 2 weeks, .03-.01-.10 1tsp
> I also add micro-nutes every 1 1/2 to 2 weeks. 1 tsp
> also add microbes to mix before planting.
> only thing i change in bloom is uping the bloom to 2tsp (if i make it to 1 1/2 TB of grow then i will drop it back down to 1TB after a couple weeks of flowering.


Sounds like too much K to me, which induces a lockout of Ca, Mg, and N. 

Sorry, but it seems to me that you've allowed yourself to fall into the cannabis nute abyss.


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## wyteboi (Dec 27, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Sounds like too much K to me, which induces a lockout of Ca, Mg, and N.
> 
> Sorry, but it seems to me that you've allowed yourself to fall into the cannabis nute abyss.


Thank you very much for your input UB!
i was kinda wonderin about the K right when i started typing my last post.
the K does seem a lil too high for my diet.
Well my new food/food schedule should help me alot. the guys at humboldt break down the huge difference between a "base food" and a "food supplement" just as you have in your hundreds of posts.
It all goes back to giving your plant what it NEEDS and not what you THINK it wants. 
So now my new question is do you think adding extra microbes is a good idea? or will this benificial bacteria "build up" on its own? my question is geared towards all soils, Pro mix, MG, Shultz, ect... 
also does it even matter whether you use "organic food" or chems in soil? or is it all the same just one is soluble and one is not?
Thanks AGAIN UB!


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## ColoradoHigh (Dec 27, 2009)

Where would someone go to start learning about medical growing? Book? dvd? I know it will take many years to become a good grower and a lot of practice. Any good suggestions?


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 28, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> So now my new question is do you think adding extra microbes is a good idea? or will this benificial bacteria "build up" on its own?


Use rainwater, it has all the microbes you need. Problem is, nobody and that includes me, has any way of knowing what's really in our mix. I know I have plenty of microbes to work with because I add some compost to my mix and I am playing with a broad spectrum myco additive out in the field. Don't see any real value, yet, to be honest with you.



> also does it even matter whether you use "organic food" or chems in soil?


No, it doesn't matter. The plant requires CHEMICALS, *soluble salts*, for nutrition, for root uptake. Whether it gets that in the case of a synthetic salt or via microbial action on blood or bone meal or guano is immaterial. The point is to give your plants a constant supply of salts and this is where the value of organics comes in for me, I like the slow release thingie and then use fertilizers for tweaks. It's a comprehensive approach, not a either/or. You can do the same with slow release encapsulated foods, and I do. I plant a wide variety of plant material on my farm, I'm talking fruit, nut, landscape, etc. and I ALWAYS put down a handful of a 18-5-12 with micros that lasts up to 12 months. Used the same thing for outdoor grown pot.

I don't know how many cannabis gardens I've seen that are screwed up because the fertilizer NPK values were wacked out. If you guys continue to buy such products, like a 3-5-10, then expect to have screwed up plants. Think of cannabis as a blooming foliage plant, it requires alot of N from start to finish. 

Myself excluded, I bet you can't find a grower here that is able to retain most of his lower fan leaves until harvest. 

UB


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## riddleme (Dec 28, 2009)

well thanks to you UB I am in the 4th week of flower and have only lost the first little ones (3 in total) which I believe is normal?

So glad I found your threads, your advice has been spot on!


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 28, 2009)

riddleme said:


> well thanks to you UB I am in the 4th week of flower and have only lost the first little ones (3 in total) which I believe is normal?
> 
> So glad I found your threads, your advice has been spot on!


Way to go! You're gonna lose some, it's when you lose alot that's not normal.

Keep 'em green,
UB


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## wyteboi (Dec 28, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Myself excluded, I bet you can't find a grower here that is able to retain most of his lower fan leaves until harvest.
> 
> UB


Yes you are right. It seems to be the "norm" around here to let fan leaves die and turn yellow.
Being that i have had plenty of success in the past, I *knew* that on a healthy plant , you dont lose any leaves.
So i came to this thread in desperate need of help, and you reminded me to get my fuckin head out of the bottle and read the plant not the label!
I have never been the one to jump on the bandwagon , but after 2 pages of talkin to you , you helped me to realize that i was doing just that, I jumped right on the wagon with all 10 bottles of food and was just reading labels just like the rest.
READ your plants folks NOT the label.

Thanks UB! 

wb


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 28, 2009)

wyteboi said:


> Yes you are right. It seems to be the "norm" around here to let fan leaves die and turn yellow.
> Being that i have had plenty of success in the past, I *knew* that on a healthy plant , you dont lose any leaves.
> So i came to this thread in desperate need of help, and you reminded me to get my fuckin head out of the bottle and read the plant not the label!
> I have never been the one to jump on the bandwagon , but after 2 pages of talkin to you , you helped me to realize that i was doing just that, I jumped right on the wagon with all 10 bottles of food and was just reading labels just like the rest.
> ...


You're welcome. Like I just said in another thread, I have never seen a community that allows itself to be manipulated to such an extreme by product resellers than the cannabis community. 

Good luck,
UB


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## Kriegs (Dec 28, 2009)

"Read your plants, not the label" -- words to live by!


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## DocBud (Dec 28, 2009)

Question for UB or anyone else who cares to answer:

What, if anything, would be wrong with putting some Osmocote 14/14/14 in the pot, watering properly, supplementing if needed and exercising patience?

That would cost under 20 bucks. No lockout, no burn....

I'm thinking of re-packaging the stuff and selling strain specific nutrients for 100 bucks a pop. (not really)


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 28, 2009)

DocBud said:


> Question for UB or anyone else who cares to answer:
> 
> What, if anything, would be wrong with putting some Osmocote 14/14/14 in the pot, watering properly, supplementing if needed and exercising patience?


Nothing. I use such a product on all my plants.


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## Relaxed (Dec 28, 2009)

Ok, glad to find this thread. Hope I am on topic as I went back about 10 pages to review. Dieing fan leafs in flower subject. I use Advance nut. bloom and grow. I added 50% of suggested bud blood from advance Nuts. (first week flower only) and noticed fan leafs die within a week. Stopped using bud blood adv. nuts... and fan leafs stay alive till week 5 ish. Must be the nuts killing em with lack of N? I was thinking of adding peruvian gauno (10-10-2) as an ammendment a couple time during flower to see if it helps? You have any suggestions on the nuts? Wondering is maybe going to the Peruvian guano by itself might do the trick without the adv. nut. bloom in flower? Input please Id like to hear from the experienced?


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## DocBud (Dec 28, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Nothing. I use such a product on all my plants.


Cool.

So the 14.14.14 has nothing but NPK in it. No micronutrients, etc.

If I used such a product, what would you recommend as a supplement for all the micro's?

I grow in perlite not soil.

Osmocote also makes a product that is 15/9/12 that has all the micro's.

I'm sick and tired of buying 5 friggin' products and measuring and mixing. I'm looking to grow MJ like I grow vegetables in the garden...large, green, tasty and healty. (except for the perlite)


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## DaveCoulier (Dec 28, 2009)

Relaxed said:


> Ok, glad to find this thread. Hope I am on topic as I went back about 10 pages to review. Dieing fan leafs in flower subject. I use Advance nut. bloom and grow. I added 50% of suggested bud blood from advance Nuts. (first week flower only) and noticed fan leafs die within a week. Stopped using bud blood adv. nuts... and fan leafs stay alive till week 5 ish. Must be the nuts killing em with lack of N? I was thinking of adding peruvian gauno (10-10-2) as an ammendment a couple time during flower to see if it helps? You have any suggestions on the nuts? Wondering is maybe going to the Peruvian guano by itself might do the trick without the adv. nut. bloom in flower? Input please Id like to hear from the experienced?


Im no expert, but I would say the high amount of Potassium in the Bud Blood is more the culprit, than the lack of nitrogen in it.

Heres a good site to keep bookmarked. It says too much K affects nitrogen. You can thank UB for making this site known around here 

http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

Oh and fuck AN for pushing shitty ass products on unsuspecting customers.

Smart move on not using the Bud Blood anymore. Feel free to use veg nutes every now and then during flowering to keep your plant healthy. I used mine for the first two weeks of flowering, and my plants didn't stretch out of control, nor did it impede flowering in any way. Ill even likely give them another shot of it around week 4-5 to keep them healthy until harvest.

Heres a good thread from Fdd2blk that discusses veg nutes during flowering:

https://www.rollitup.org/outdoor-growing/24703-its-all-bullsh-t.html


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 29, 2009)

Dave's got all of you covered.

Cannabis specific bloom foods WILL reduce your yields as they contain insufficient N to maintain foliage. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself. Fellas, search my posts please..... I will ignore redundant and a questions which have already been addressed.

Good luck,
UB


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## Justoner (Dec 29, 2009)

hi this is my first real grow iv been having this problem for a while and its starting to get worse ive decieded to flush this one and startover since they are all pretty wrecked now but id like to figure out what went wrong any help would be nice thanx
nutes 
vita bloom, calmag, snow storm ultra, seaweed , silica blast, botanicare sweet, superthrive, and i used faxfarm grow for veg


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## riddleme (Dec 29, 2009)

> vita bloom, calmag, snow storm ultra, seaweed , silica blast, botanicare sweet, superthrive, and i used faxfarm grow for veg


looks like the problem to me


Edit Sorry UB, couldn't resist


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 29, 2009)

riddleme said:


> looks like the problem to me
> 
> 
> Edit Sorry UB, couldn't resist


I always had a problem with faxfarm mahself. 

Buy Mel Frank's MJ Insiders Growers Guide.


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## Justoner (Dec 29, 2009)

So am I definetly looking at to many nutes? An if so which do you suggest iv been trying to decide between strictly foxfarm or botanicare or should I mix and match again thanks for any input


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## DTR (Dec 29, 2009)

awesome thread im still reading through it and feel like im learning 

my soil mix is foxfarms 2parts ocean forest 1part light warrior 1 part chunky perlite with one cup piece of mind fruit and flower 

was fed just distled water 6.5ish untill flower when i got foxfarms bigbloom organic and trying to get closer to 6.0

light is 600hps small closet 2.5ft deep 7ft wide 8ft tall 59-83 temps but average in 60ish lights off and 74ish lights on with 4inch vortec inline fan hooked to the hood and a ocliating fan infront of the intake blowing over the soil and up through the canopy

she was left in the 1.1QT a bit to long then put in a 5gallon but still looks healthy other then the sulfer for powdery mildew
to water iv been doing the weight test and she stays heavy so i dont give her water that often

how long would be to long to wait between waterings?

thank you for all the great information in your posts


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 30, 2009)

Justoner said:


> So am I definetly looking at to many nutes? An if so which do you suggest iv been trying to decide between strictly foxfarm or botanicare or should I mix and match again thanks for any input


Depends on the final NPK values that your plants "see", and what they require.



DTR said:


> awesome thread im still reading through it and feel like im learning
> 
> my soil mix is foxfarms 2parts ocean forest 1part light warrior 1 part chunky perlite with one cup piece of mind fruit and flower
> 
> ...


If you wait until the leaves droop, you've gone too long without water.


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## DTR (Dec 30, 2009)

thank you for the response i dont think i worded my question well enough my concern is im about 3weeks into flower and i jumped pot size a bit to much about 2 weeks ago and its probably closer to 5-7 days between watering were the rest are every 1-3days she doesnt wilt but the base stays heavy the rest went from 2.5gal to a 5gal and she went 1.1QT to 5gal
im a noob grower and probably over thinking things i just want to learn as much as i can so each crop gets a bit smoother
will the water become Stagnant in 1 week? 
could this be some sort of lock out?
or is it just more medium then plant and shes taking her time?
at how many days between waterings do you become Concerned?
thank you again for your help


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 30, 2009)

>>will the water become Stagnant in 1 week? 

If you don't have drain holes, it will be a death blow.

>>could this be some sort of lock out?

Your guess is as good as mine, or, my guess is as good as yours....take your pick. 

>>or is it just more medium then plant and shes taking her time?

You need to upcan BEFORE flowering and let the plant become established. A healthy root system along with plenty of foliage will wick off alot of soil moisture, quickly depending on conditions like RH, temps, plant material mass, etc. Once flowering commences, root production is put on the back burner. Sounds like you jumped the gun.

>>at how many days between waterings do you become Concerned?
thank you again for your help

Hoo nose? If your pot isn't getting light to the lift in say....5 days, I'd be concerned about root rot pressures. I have to water 3-5 gallon pots twice a day with a quart each session, but then again I grow "trees" with alot of root mass and foliage, like this.











It's all relative. No two gardens are the same. 

As an aside, notice the heavy mass of flowers (and leaves) at the bottom of this plant? Don't believe the lollipopping kids who hype that light won't get to the bottom of a plant. This proves them wrong. Hmmmmm, upon close inspection of this plant, I just noticed that this plant actually has more flower/bud mass at the bottom than at the top!

UB


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## DTR (Dec 30, 2009)

thank you Uncle Ben
i do have good pots with drain holes and will not jump pot size like that again i panicked when the pm hit and just tossed them into flower then got the bigger pots
if i end up with no smoke thats fine as long as next grow is better 
books and videos can only take you so far this site is great because of people like you and being able to have people see your plants through pix and video its all about learning your plants and the advice of veteran growers like yourself 
i hope i can grow healthy trees like you someday i wont give up and if i learn from my mistakes i should gain a large amount of knowledge


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 30, 2009)

DTR said:


> thank you Uncle Ben
> i do have good pots with drain holes and will not jump pot size like that again i panicked when the pm hit and just tossed them into flower then got the bigger pots
> if i end up with no smoke thats fine as long as next grow is better
> books and videos can only take you so far this site is great because of people like you and being able to have people see your plants through pix and video its all about learning your plants and the advice of veteran growers like yourself
> i hope i can grow healthy trees like you someday i wont give up and if i learn from my mistakes i should gain a large amount of knowledge


You're welcome. Sometimes the education and experience is more meaningful than the result. When I fail, I just write it off to experience and pray I don't repeat my mistakes the next time!


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## Katatawnic (Dec 30, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> As an aside, notice the heavy mass of flowers (and leaves) at the bottom of this plant? Don't believe the lollipopping kids who hype that light won't get to the bottom of a plant. This proves them wrong. Hmmmmm, upon close inspection of this plant, I just noticed that this plant actually has more flower/bud mass at the bottom than at the top!
> 
> UB


I was preparing for part one of a two-parter harvest a week ago, and am glad I go by the "measure twice, cut once" mantra... the lower buds, believe it or not, were done "baking" while the top ones were still growing lots of new pistils and showing promise of more development! Just to be sure, I took one of the lower buds and quick dried it. The next afternoon I gave it a try, and it was absolutely DONE... as was I within a few moments!   After I had me a nice nap  I removed all of the buds that were done for trimming, and left (mostly the upper half of) the plant under the lights to bake more. (One of the colas were done; the smallest one. The rest I left on the plant.) Sure enough, those colas are still developing. Had I taken them down last week, I highly doubt they'd have the "punch" that the lower ones have.

Now, the lower buds started developing at the same time the colas did rather than a bit later, and developed at the same rate throughout the flowering process. So it would make sense to me that the smaller ones would be done first, as there is less bulk to finish per bud. If I were to bake two cookies on one cookie sheet, one glob of dough average sized and one large, the small cookie will be done baking well before the large one... so my logic in this is going by an analogy such as the cookies. I could be wrong, but it's what makes sense to me at this time; a new lesson in botany could teach me the actual reason if I'm off.

Also, I do tie my four main branches down after topping, just to the edge of the pot before I allow them to grow vertically. (No more veg time for me this way; they just don't get as tall, but the same amount of vegetative growth all the same. Just more horizontal for a couple of weeks. Tying four branches once isn't any more work for me than watering once.) So most of those lower bud sites get more light and air circulation early on, during the veg cycle. This could have a lot to do with why most of my lower buds are finishing before the colas: lots of direct light to all bud sites and fan leaves from early on, hence early development of the little buds. (BTW, very few of the lower buds would be classified as "popcorns" either; they were very good-sized nuggets.) The plants I didn't tie this way had main colas the same size, but a lot less lower bud growth.

I don't tie each and every little stem like I did my first round though. That was a lot of time and work invested, and the yield it wasn't nearly enough of an increase to bother with that much work. But to the lollipoppers, might I suggest topping once and tying those main branches once? I don't allow them to get larger horizontally than the edge of the pots, so they're not taking up any more room than they would grown straight up. Yet I did see a noticeable increase in yield *and* in size of lower buds (little to no popcorns) doing it this way. I've got a nasty case of arthritis, so the last thing my hands need is to trim loads of popcorns. Topping and tying once each has eliminated this problem for me, given me more dry weight in the process... and the lower buds are *very* potent and have the bag appeal we seek as well! 

(Sorry no photos, I'll work on that ASAP. Sent the camera with hubby to his deployment in Iraq, and of course it came back ruined; which I'd expected beforehand. My cheapie replacement died a few weeks ago, so I'm without a camera for the time being.)


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## seasmoke (Dec 30, 2009)

UB, I see that you also have a little browning of the tips. is that solely a nitro thing? I mean which specific nute causes that burn? I suspect its the Urea. I noticed that though jacks cloassic is high on Urea with its all purpose, it has none at all in its bloom booster...Shultz and MG are just the opposite, they are high in Urea in their bloom food...


I've been giving them just water for over the last week, 2 gallons per 5 gallon pot every three days, enough so I have a decent run-off, and i've still got brown tips...the leaves themselves are nice....well, most of them. I don't see any of it while in vegg growth, fed with 3\4 dose MG 24-8-16 every 7-10 Days or in the first three weeks of bud. Weeks 4- finish it shows up. Been using MG 15-30-15 diluted 1/2-3/4 strength once every ten days...6 feedings over two months of light dosage, with fresh water in between, I didn't think they would burn. I know you suggested backing off on the nutes (thanks to replying to my PM), but is MG 15-30-15 to powerfull for MJ?


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 31, 2009)

seasmoke said:


> UB, I see that you also have a little browning of the tips. is that solely a nitro thing? I mean which specific nute causes that burn? I suspect its the Urea. I noticed that though jacks cloassic is high on Urea with its all purpose, it has none at all in its bloom booster...Shultz and MG are just the opposite, they are high in Urea in their bloom food...


Urea is a slow release source of N that I don't believe will cause leaf tip burn. I always have heat episodes, where the heat in the room gets too high. This usually induces leaf cupping too. The browning of a few leaf tips in the previous photo is negligible. Don't worry about a few brown leaf tips if the leaf is healthy overall.



> I know you suggested backing off on the nutes (thanks to replying to my PM), but is MG 15-30-15 to powerfull for MJ?


Shouldn't be. I assume your adding up all the nutritional values in your program - soil, foods, etc.

Kat, if you're gonna tie the branches down, why wouldn't you leave them that way until harvest? I see no purpose in tieing them down for a few weeks and then placing them upright again. IOW, if they are prostrate, then you'll get good output all along the branch.


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## Katatawnic (Dec 31, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Kat, if you're gonna tie the branches down, why wouldn't you leave them that way until harvest? I see no purpose in tieing them down for a few weeks and then placing them upright again. IOW, if they are prostrate, then you'll get good output all along the branch.


I do. Perhaps my saying I tie them "once" sounded like I don't leave them tied? Sorry if I didn't clarify. I meant that they're tied a few weeks into veg, grown horizontally to the edges of the pots, and then allowed to grow vertically from there... where they're tied at the pots' edges. So I end up with my four "main" colas, several "lesser" colas, lots of nuggets, and very few popcorns. 

The plant in this photo was topped, tied, then topped again. Now I skip the second topping and flip to 12/12 instead.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 31, 2009)

Got it Kat. Sure wish the law wasn't so strict as I'd be growing pot using a grape trellis system. This training would work great for pot with a few minor mods. It's called Vertical Shoot Positioning using a bi-lateral cordon. Would be extremely easy to do - you'd top to 2 main colas, train them to a wire about 12" above the ground, run them along the wire and then tip them at say......3' long to shape them up as a "T". Output would then be vertically positioned.

Imagine a room with wires attached at each end of a wall using an eyeball screwed into a wall stud, about a foot above the top of a 5 gallon pot. These would be your rows. Now imagine a series of horizontal fixtures on a light mover, each crawling back and forth down their particular row. With 24" aisles to be able to work the garden, you could really set up a nice, very productive grow room.

UB


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## seasmoke (Jan 4, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Got it Kat. Sure wish the law wasn't so strict as I'd be growing pot using a grape trellis system. This training would work great for pot with a few minor mods. It's called Vertical Shoot Positioning using a bi-lateral cordon. Would be extremely easy to do - you'd top to 2 main colas, train them to a wire about 12" above the ground, run them along the wire and then tip them at say......3' long to shape them up as a "T". Output would then be vertically positioned.
> 
> Imagine a room with wires attached at each end of a wall using an eyeball screwed into a wall stud, about a foot above the top of a 5 gallon pot. These would be your rows. Now imagine a series of horizontal fixtures on a light mover, each crawling back and forth down their particular row. With 24" aisles to be able to work the garden, you could really set up a nice, very productive grow room.
> 
> UB


 
Interesting concept UB.

The nitrogen though...I'm going with Peters Classic BB. It has 0 Urea and I may be using to much as it is. In the MG all purpose its 20% urea, and the bloom has 10% UREA....I think I would like more control of the N than slow released...


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## hydroalltheway (Jan 6, 2010)

What are my three out of four plants new shoots keep growing all twisted, cupped, and only at the top third of the plant. _*Not using soil*_ . here are a couple of pics to look at.


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 6, 2010)

hydroalltheway said:


> What are my three out of four plants new shoots keep growing all twisted, cupped, and only at the top third of the plant. _*Not using soil*_ . here are a couple of pics to look at.


Looks like the root system is shot. Read page one, you'll find your answer there.


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## wyteboi (Jan 6, 2010)

So is all organic food non-soluble to plants? if so is there a way to make it soluble? I hate to waste all this organic food but my plants need food now , not when the biologicals build up weeks from now? i really dont think my microbes are built up enough to do their job.....yet. 
Also i just looked at the breakdown on promix and it contains a wetting agent? i kinda got an idea of what it is , but how will this affect my watering? i always just wait till the pot is "light" , with this wetting agent shit , should i wait till they start to droop till i water? (just once to give me a better idea exactly when they are dry) Im lost ...



Thanks UB 

wb


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## DaveCoulier (Jan 6, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> So is all organic food non-soluble to plants? if so is there a way to make it soluble? I hate to waste all this organic food but my plants need food now , not when the biologicals build up weeks from now? i really dont think my microbes are built up enough to do their job.....yet.
> Also i just looked at the breakdown on promix and it contains a wetting agent? i kinda got an idea of what it is , but how will this affect my watering? i always just wait till the pot is "light" , with this wetting agent shit , should i wait till they start to droop till i water? (just once to give me a better idea exactly when they are dry) Im lost ...
> View attachment 673153View attachment 673154
> 
> ...


Promix and organic nutes dont mix too well. Promix is just peat moss and no microbes. If you are going to go organic nutes with Peat moss, you need to amend it with compost, EWC, or composted manure to get a nice colony of microbes.

Get some synthetic nutes to get your plants on track.

That wetting agent is there to make it easier to rewet peat. Dont wait till the plants are waiting to droop. Once peat dries out its a bitch to re-wet. I let my plants go a day too long before watering, and when I watered them today I gave em 64 ounces of water in 2.3 gallon grow bags, and some of them were still light when lifted because it dried out too much even though I had run-off.

P.S. I hate peat moss.


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## wyteboi (Jan 6, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Promix and organic nutes dont mix too well. Promix is just peat moss and no microbes. If you are going to go organic nutes with Peat moss, you need to amend it with compost, EWC, or composted manure to get a nice colony of microbes.
> 
> Get some synthetic nutes to get your plants on track.


Yes this is the answer i was looking for 
i was gonna go with soluble microbes OR soluble food , i think i will just get the soluble food. my promix did come with micorrizal (cant spell) but i dont think that micorizia is the same as benificial bacteria? plus im sure it takes some time for the bugs to "colonize" or whatever they do.




DaveCoulier said:


> P.S. I hate peat moss.


ME TOO! thats my next Q: IF i really wanted to stick to organics (no big deal just tryin to learn) would it be better to use a soil mix. do the microbes do better in soil then in peat? also does worm castings contain microbes ? i know "castings" are rich in micro's an macro's(and im sure other good shit) but what are the other benifits of castings in the mix?
i dont have access to compost right this second (lookin into it though for sure) thats why i ask about soil/peat/worm castings.

Thanks SO much dave an ub! 
i used to use MG mix w/nute balls +blood meal+bone meal and NEVER had major probs like this until i switched to MGmix + liquid food. so do u guys think that all them years i was doin good , it was all because of the nute balls in the mg?

wb


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## DaveCoulier (Jan 6, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> Yes this is the answer i was looking for
> i was gonna go with soluble microbes OR soluble food , i think i will just get the soluble food. my promix did come with micorrizal (cant spell) but i dont think that micorizia is the same as benificial bacteria? plus im sure it takes some time for the bugs to "colonize" or whatever they do.
> 
> ME TOO! thats my next Q: IF i really wanted to stick to organics (no big deal just tryin to learn) would it be better to use a soil mix. do the microbes do better in soil then in peat? also does worm castings contain microbes ? i know "castings" are rich in micro's an macro's(and im sure other good shit) but what are the other benifits of castings in the mix?
> ...


The myco in the soil are definitely microbes and they do help..but they take too long to colonize your root system. I thought they were good until UB helped me realize they just arent a good fit for MJ. If you innoculant a plant with a myco additive you can expect 50-60% colonization after a year or two. In a few months expect no more than 30%, yet were already harvesting at 3 months.. The microbes you get from compost or EWC are a better fit for us. EWC helps your soil retain moisture, as well aerate it.

You shouldnt have much trouble finding compost. Are there no stores in your town that sell it? I can pm you a link to the soil Im gonna use for my next grow if you'd like. Even with shipping its cheaper than buying some FFOF, etc from my local hydro store.


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## wyteboi (Jan 6, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> The myco in the soil are definitely microbes and they do help..but they take too long to colonize your root system. I thought they were good until UB helped me realize they just arent a good fit for MJ. If you innoculant a plant with a myco additive you can expect 50-60% colonization after a year or two. In a few months expect no more than 30%, yet were already harvesting at 3 months.. The microbes you get from compost or EWC are a better fit for us. EWC helps your soil retain moisture, as well aerate it.
> 
> You shouldnt have much trouble finding compost. Are there no stores in your town that sell it? I can pm you a link to the soil Im gonna use for my next grow if you'd like. Even with shipping its cheaper than buying some FFOF, etc from my local hydro store.


yea send me a link please.
i just didnt know what kind of compost to get?
also whats EWC ?

THANKS again!


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## wyteboi (Jan 6, 2010)

One more thing , could you recommend me a synthetic nute? i am scared of taste issues with chems? or does taste even have anything to do with non soluble/soluble foods? 
i read alot but i cant believe everything , i got to stick to facts and hard evedince myself


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## DaveCoulier (Jan 6, 2010)

EWC= Earth worm castings. Cutting Edge Solutions is supposed to be good, but I dont know what their prices are. I got their lineup by just writing to them and asking for samples. 6 one quart bottles for free. Email them and ask if they have any sample packs to send out. UB can no doubt direct you to some good cheap nutes that will get the job done. I think he fancies Jacks Classic, or maybe Schultz. Theres a mixed bag of opinions regarding taste with organic nutes/chem nutes, flushing/no flushing. Experiment for yourself so you can always be certain what is truth and what isnt.


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## riddleme (Jan 6, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> One more thing , could you recommend me a synthetic nute? i am scared of taste issues with chems? or does taste even have anything to do with non soluble/soluble foods?
> i read alot but i cant believe everything , i got to stick to facts and hard evedince myself


I would be willing to bet that are few folks in a blind taste test that could tell the difference between properly cured organic vs non organic bud

that being said 

Jack's is what I use, but Peters, DynaGro are other good ones UB has stated often


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## Stoney384 (Jan 6, 2010)

I got a girl that wants a little bit of water everyday because it is so dry in her grow space.
She is in the flower stage for over a week now.
And the nutes say to feed every other watering.

My question is should i be feeding her every other day or should i just feed her nutes once a week?

Thanks in advance!!!!


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## DaveCoulier (Jan 6, 2010)

Stoney384 said:


> I got a girl that wants a little bit of water everyday because it is so dry in her grow space.
> She is in the flower stage for over a week now.
> And the nutes say to feed every other watering.
> 
> ...


You could feed every other day if you reduce the level of nutes. Watering that often Id drop it down to 25%, or you can just give her whatever you normally give once a week. 

Its probably more of a pain in the ass to mix up nutes every other day though. 

What type of soil do you have the plant in that requires watering every day? Are you using a small pot? My ladies in 3 gallon pots get fed every 3 days during flowering.


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## wyteboi (Jan 7, 2010)

i dont know shit about organics and synthetic , all i know is my shit always taste WAY better then the hydro guys i know? (and i never flush) 
well UB u use synthetic and u dont flush, so is it just a dirt vs water thing? 
also _should _i use EWC and compost in my next mix (on the few i keep organic) or does dwc have good bacteria in it too?

I am so glad u guys are here , i would hate to have to downgrade to hydro! 
thanks dave and UB!!


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## ihateyourdogs (Jan 7, 2010)

_Original post dated 12/26/2009:_

_using CFLS in stealth grow. lights are 2-3 inches above plants. about 4 weeks into growing. organic. non problem plant is northern skunk from peakseeds BC. problem plant is northernberry from peakseeds BC. the plant grew really big leaves and started to slump over. i let it be a couple of days and then added the support. the plant is actually leaning against the support, not tied in anyway. i've noticed the plant looks twisted and almost deformed. the leaves look to me like some pics ive seen of Mg deficiency.? had to use my laptop to take pictures so as you can imagine its very low quality and difficult to do. i grow in a medium of Miracle Grow Organic Choice Potting Mix, Hi-Yield bone meal (slowrelease), Lady Bug Glittering Greensand with Iron, Feritlome Seed and Cutting Perlite, and a little of a mushroom compost mix a friend of mine made. i use water from the tap that sits out for at least 48-72 hours before any is used. I occasionally feed water that is from vac cleaning my freshwater fish tank. i also sometimes use a small amount of fish emulsion. i added a minute amount of epsom salt to the soil about 2 weeks ago because the plants were looking slightly yellow. in case of a ph problem, and also for more N, i mixed in some used coffee grounds today. i added a little more epsom salt as well then watered with the fish tank water. _

_so..._
_any suggestions? just doesn't look right to me




_


That was about a week ago.
So. 
I watered heavy enough to come out the bottom. The runoff was mostly clear. tested with fish tank water test strips. showed high amounts of Mg (no surprise) and calcium. had ok N and ph was somewhere between 6.6-7.0 sorry thats not very accurate. so about 5 days later this is what she looks like. the other plant is still doing fine and has had roughly the same treatment. 
what is going on here??
the first two pics are from the 26th of december and the last two from yesterday


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 7, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> i dont know shit about organics and synthetic , all i know is my shit always taste WAY better then the hydro guys i know? (and i never flush)
> well UB u use synthetic and u dont flush, so is it just a dirt vs water thing?
> also _should _i use EWC and compost in my next mix (on the few i keep organic) or does dwc have good bacteria in it too?
> 
> ...


Organics are no different than synthetics. Plants require certain elements in the form of salts. Whether they get that "organically" or via salts out of box is immaterial.

Can't help ya with the DWC question, don't think your concern regarding bacteria is of any real world value.


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## wyteboi (Jan 7, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Can't help ya with the DWC question, don't think your concern regarding bacteria is of any real world value.


fuck i meant EWC ......again oops 
is it alot better enviroment for microbes then my peat mix?


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## wyteboi (Jan 8, 2010)

also could you please recommend me a good soluble food for my dirt? all the ones i am looking at have very low N , or is that normal for a synthetic food?


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## riddleme (Jan 8, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> also could you please recommend me a good soluble food for my dirt? all the ones i am looking at have very low N , or is that normal for a synthetic food?


Jack's Classic veg = 20-20-20 and Bloom = 10-30-20 right on thier website they tell you to mix them for 30-50-40, what I use


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 9, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> also could you please recommend me a good soluble food for my dirt? all the ones i am looking at have very low N , or is that normal for a synthetic food?


A low N amount is normal for most of your cannabis specific products, not normal regarding normal plant requirements. Why your resellers promote such crap is anybody's guess. 

Your goal is to produce and maintain as much foliage as possible until harvest. A 30-10-10, 9-3-6, 18-6-8 _will support that function_. A high K food _will not support that function_. You want the first # (N) to be equal to or higher than the last (K). Make a trip to a _normal_ store like Walmart or your neighborly nursery and find such a fertilizer.


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## wyteboi (Jan 9, 2010)

ok i understand. i dont give a fuck if the food is for pot or not, so walmart it is 

As you know i am having major probs. 
i have been using nothing but a organic 3-1-3 and RO water for my next batch and the problem is showing in the lower leaves already. (yellow with bronze spots, and some are still healthy green with the spots.)
i understand your outlook on organics and the "hype" but why would that mix cause a lockout or even death? Does peat moss kill everything good in the soil? 
This whole mess started in MG potting mix with organic food with same results. and the only time i could get a very noticable change was when i replanted into promix and then within a couple weeks they went from dead to nice full, healthy , dark green (i detroyed the roots when replanting and they didnt get a "bad" shock either) 
they looked SO good i put them into bloom and within a week the leaves were starting to droop and the yellow started again.?

Is it impossible to use organic food in promix or MG? 

I hate to keep askin all these questions, but i am just tryin to figure out why i never had a prob for 10 years until now. I have been reading for weeks (on top of the reading i have been doin for years) and i mean alot of reading about everything about plants not just mj of course. 
(hell i have learned ALOT from just this thread , thanks ub.)
i used to use MG mix and a lil bone meal and blood meal, i have even just used MG mix with NO food and have had great results. now why would MG mix and liquid organic be ANY different then MG and powder?
i am so lost .....

anyways thanks for all the help UB and dave.


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## Kriegs (Jan 9, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> ok i understand. i dont give a fuck if the food is for pot or not, so walmart it is
> 
> As you know i am having major probs.
> i have been using nothing but a organic 3-1-3 and RO water for my next batch and the problem is showing in the lower leaves already. (yellow with bronze spots, and some are still healthy green with the spots.)
> ...


Hey, wyteboi.. Just a procedural suggestion: why not split your grows into 2 or more sets of plants where one set is in your tried-and-true soil mix, and another is experimental (the Promix and such)? Might be a way for you to find a new working forumla without having all eggs in one basket. Just a thought...


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## wyteboi (Jan 9, 2010)

Kriegs said:


> Hey, wyteboi.. Just a procedural suggestion: why not split your grows into 2 or more sets of plants where one set is in your tried-and-true soil mix, and another is experimental (the Promix and such)? Might be a way for you to find a new working forumla without having all eggs in one basket. Just a thought...


Thanks for response kriegs !
IF that problem would have been with the promix only and not the mg too , then yes i would go back , but going back to the same thing i am doing now probably wont help. 
i dont like experimenting , i _thought_ the only difference in liquid organic an powder organic is just that, 1 is powder and one is not. ??
basically what im sayin is why go buy more blood meal when i have some right here in a bottle instead of a bag. 

i am just really obsessed with figureing out how this happened and WHY.

wb


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## DaveCoulier (Jan 9, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> ok i understand. i dont give a fuck if the food is for pot or not, so walmart it is
> 
> As you know i am having major probs.
> i have been using nothing but a organic 3-1-3 and RO water for my next batch and the problem is showing in the lower leaves already. (yellow with bronze spots, and some are still healthy green with the spots.)
> ...


Heres something for you to read about peat moss.

http://www.dirtdoctor.com/newforum/root/needing-bulk-peat-moss-t8335.html

Its left me a little more confused now haha. 

I do know SPM is often blended with compost in soil mixes, so I wouldn't say SPM is killing the good microbes in it. 

Im sure UB can shed some light on whether SPM is really sterile or not.


Regarding the yellowing with bronze spots, Ive experienced that multiple times. 

I experienced it on one lady, and had no clue what it was. I thought I may have been under-feeding her, so I gave her full strength nutes, and it stopped spreading(still lost the affected leaves), and she is doing great. 5 weeks into flower now, and no more symptoms like that on FS nutes. Nothing else was changed.

Another time, I was over-watering my second batch of plants and they all developed the same symptoms. I cut back on the water, and they all grew out of it.

The third time, my ph pen was fucked up and I was incorrectly ph'ing my water, and they all got yellowing at the bottom with bronze spots, and the upper leaves were still green but with bronze spotting. I quit using the pen, and said "Fuck Ph'ing" and the symptoms went away and they look so much better. 

Hopefully one of those are your problems and you can fix it.

Btw, I assume you're using a cal/mag supplement with the RO water. Which makes me ask UB, is there sufficient Cal/Mag in moist soil mixes(amended with dolomite) that a Cal/Mag supp isn't necessary if using RO water?


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## wyteboi (Jan 9, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Heres something for you to read about peat moss.
> 
> http://www.dirtdoctor.com/newforum/root/needing-bulk-peat-moss-t8335.html
> 
> ...


well its not over water 
fuck ph'ing with dirt (real dirt)
my food has micros in it too, so no need for a supplement. i think most foods have micros in it? i know some dont but i think all the good ones do.
also the promix has micros/macros too. i added mycorrizai too but i dont know if thats enough or the same as benificial bacteria?


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## Kriegs (Jan 9, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Heres something for you to read about peat moss.
> 
> http://www.dirtdoctor.com/newforum/root/needing-bulk-peat-moss-t8335.html
> 
> ...


Dave -- thanks for that link. That should be required reading for everyone who wants to understand their soil better. As you see, "peat" can mean a lot of things. I did my research in natural peat systems with soil pH 7.8 and above, with pure calcium carbonate nodules in it. The soil pore water ranged from 7.0 to 7.6 depending on season and recent rainfall. Sphagnum peat systems, on the other hand, are quite acid overall with soil and porewater values in 3's and 4's. Of course, sphagnum peat is the primary peat in use in horticulture.

Regarding cal/mag balance in soils amended with dolomite: that will depend on somewhat on the "dolomite" being used. "Dolomite" is a matrix where the cation positions are part-occupied by Ca, and partly by Mg. The chemical matrix is nearly the same physical structure as calcite -- pure CaCO3 -- but Mg occupies some of those Ca positions in the matrix. It's not a 50-50 split -- true mineral dolomite is about 60-40 Ca to Mg. "Dolostone" is what actually exists in nature, is mined for many applications, and its Ca/Mg balance varies from 10% Mg to maybe 60-70% Mg depending on biogenic origin (pure MgCO3 is very rare in nature).

So, it comes down to whether there are horticultural industry standards for the Ca/Mg distribution in the dolomite used in a soil mix, or produced for addition by the end user. The stuff produced for addition has an analysis on the bag you can consult. I don't know what soil producers who add "dolomite" to their mixes use - I imagine it's some kind of partly refined pelletized material that still retains some of the Ca/Mg variability of the dolostone source. I can't imagine any commercial company expending the money on pure refined mineral dolomite. And then there's the extent to which that industry standard gels with the ideal balance for MJ. Perhaps UB will know if those standards exist and what they are.


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## DaveCoulier (Jan 9, 2010)

To follow up on that link. I followed a link in that discussion to www.peatmoss.com

They will provide a cd with power point presentations about peat for free if you email them and ask for it. I went ahead and did it. Im always up for expanding my knowledge.

Heres the email to request it: 
[email protected]


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## wyteboi (Jan 9, 2010)

thanks for links dave! 
How does this mix look anyone? 3-1-2. 
will i need more micro's then whats in it?


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## DaveCoulier (Jan 9, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> thanks for links dave!
> How does this mix look anyone? 3-1-2.
> will i need more micro's then whats in it?
> View attachment 676128


3-1-2 is good for veg, so that covered. It could use some Cal/Mag. That can be taken care of with dolomite, or botanicare cal/mag. I imagine you're already using both since you use Promix and RO water though. 

It looks like most of your Micros are covered. You could use Earth Juice MicroBlast. It has a couple of things that are missing in that fert you posted, but it also duplicates alot of it as well. It also has Kelp in it.

I would recommend Kelp, but well Earth Juice has alot of that already covered.

STEM and MicroMax are good sources of micros, but expensive and come in 50 lb bags.


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 10, 2010)

Kriegs, the standards I go by are pretty much relegated to the guaranteed analysis on foods I buy, Calcium carbonate equilvalents, etc. I mix my own soil blends and you'd think I was some kind of witch doctor the way I pour out this and that, throw a toss of that over my shoulder and mix with a shovel to blend. I just do it by looks, smell, and feel. If I use too much peat and the pH drops too much, I can add a bit of hydrated (quick) lime. If usually lands just below neutral using dolomite though. 

BTW, our rain water is about neutral. I live in the country and Texas is a mighty big state with alot of open space. The biggest refineries are hundreds of miles away, like Houston. I doubt if they influence rain pH anyway.

UB


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## Kriegs (Jan 10, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Kriegs, the standards I go by are pretty much relegated to the guaranteed analysis on foods I buy, Calcium carbonate equilvalents, etc. I mix my own soil blends and you'd think I was some kind of witch doctor the way I pour out this and that, throw a toss of that over my shoulder and mix with a shovel to blend. I just do it by looks, smell, and feel. If I use too much peat and the pH drops too much, I can add a bit of hydrated (quick) lime. If usually lands just below neutral using dolomite though.
> 
> BTW, our rain water is about neutral. I live in the country and Texas is a mighty big state with alot of open space. The biggest refineries are hundreds of miles away, like Houston. I doubt if they influence rain pH anyway.
> 
> UB


Yeah... it may not matter really. As with any natural product, the end members (very low or very high Mg dolostones) are rare and most sources probably fall in the middle. I just figure when a product says it "contains dolomite", that should mean something, at least within a range.

Weed likes dolomite in its soil -- that's the main thing.


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## DaveCoulier (Jan 10, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Kriegs, the standards I go by are pretty much relegated to the guaranteed analysis on foods I buy, Calcium carbonate equilvalents, etc. I mix my own soil blends and you'd think I was some kind of witch doctor the way I pour out this and that, throw a toss of that over my shoulder and mix with a shovel to blend. I just do it by looks, smell, and feel. If I use too much peat and the pH drops too much, I can add a bit of hydrated (quick) lime. If usually lands just below neutral using dolomite though.
> 
> BTW, our rain water is about neutral. I live in the country and Texas is a mighty big state with alot of open space. The biggest refineries are hundreds of miles away, like Houston. I doubt if they influence rain pH anyway.
> 
> UB



This is what UB looks like when preparing soil. Ive seen it.






http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2479/boilwater.png


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## snew (Jan 10, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> This is what UB looks like when preparing soil. Ive seen it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now thats funny!!!!!!!!!!


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## leethewarmage (Jan 11, 2010)

uncle Ben, i am having lots of issues, i have some pics wanted to know if you had time to check them out. and new to this website. didnt really want to post them.


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 11, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> I hate to keep askin all these questions, but i am just tryin to figure out why i never had a prob for 10 years until now


What have you changed? Watering, lighting, temps? Without being there to see your day to day activities, it's anyone's guess.


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## goofygolfer (Jan 12, 2010)

ub your avatar pic is super tight what strain is that just curious


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 12, 2010)

Dave, that is funny lol.



goofygolfer said:


> ub your avatar pic is super tight what strain is that just curious


Posi Jack Herer


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## TickTok (Jan 12, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Dave, that is funny lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Posi Jack Herer


Uncle Ben,
New to this site but it seems your opinion is highly valued. I have some, not all, leaves that are getting bumps on them, spotting and turning brown. Fifth week of flower, lights ok, temp ok, humidity ok. Overall, plants look good but the leaf problem won't go away. Had a bad early on infestation of thrips but they are under control now. It is not he normal silver thrip damage. Attached are some leaf pics. I would appreciate your opinion.


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## riddleme (Jan 12, 2010)

TickTok said:


> Uncle Ben,
> New to this site but it seems your opinion is highly valued. I have some, not all, leaves that are getting bumps on them, spotting and turning brown. Fifth week of flower, lights ok, temp ok, humidity ok. Overall, plants look good but the leaf problem won't go away. Had a bad early on infestation of thrips but they are under control now. It is not he normal silver thrip damage. Attached are some leaf pics. I would appreciate your opinion.


Looks like a calcium defenciency

Your gonna need to give more info

what nutes and what soil are you using, please include the NPK values


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 13, 2010)

TickTok said:


> Uncle Ben,
> New to this site but it seems your opinion is highly valued. I have some, not all, leaves that are getting bumps on them, spotting and turning brown. Fifth week of flower, lights ok, temp ok, humidity ok. Overall, plants look good but the leaf problem won't go away. Had a bad early on infestation of thrips but they are under control now. It is not he normal silver thrip damage. Attached are some leaf pics. I would appreciate your opinion.


Yeah, more info is needed regarding elements given.

Are those the thrip damaged leaves?


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## wyteboi (Jan 13, 2010)

hey ub 

i was just reading my neem bottle....... i may have myself a situmantation on my hands?
(well we all know im havin major lockout issues) 
this could not possibly cause a "slow lockout" could it? when i say slow , i mean i would_ think_ that if i was sprayin um with something _that_ bad then it would show immediately right?
anyways here it is:
Green Light neem concentrate. organic omri bla, bla. 
Active ingre. ...Clarified hydrophobic extract of neem oil..............70%
inert ingr. ...............30%
thats it , is it that bad?
thanks!

1st pic is the beginning (about a week after re-pot from cups too pots)
2nd is about 3 weeks after repot. (and was pretty green about 10 days before this pic)
the others are leaf damage and believe it or not, recovering from the complete lockout.



the one on the far left was WAY worse a few weeks ago!
wb


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## DTR (Jan 13, 2010)

so this is on my 91chem shes been very abused her nugs are pinner and long the first pic is jan 1st the seconed pic is from lastnight about 5 weeks into flower 

it was started from a 8inch rooted clone under a 600watt hps way to close i put in crappy bark filled dirt drowned and fryed her with nutes for few weeks then switched her to foxfarm mix with light warrior/ocean forest/chunky perlite and underwatered her its been a struggle the whole time for her to survive with how iv treated her 

there was a few leafs showing powdery mildew on another plant next to her and i removed the infected leafs flipped them to 12/12 and sprayed them all with sulphur a few days later when i was able to get it i increased airflow and lowered humidity to 25-35%

tried to research it and doesnt look like a common thing so i thought id share im guessing its just cause im an idiot and treated them poorly but would like to hear your thoughts on it have you ever encountered this would there be any way to preserve it or is it not as uncommon as i think or not even albino just a stupid stressed tiny shitty bud


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## riddleme (Jan 13, 2010)

DTR said:


> so this is on my 91chem shes been very abused her nugs are pinner and long the first pic is jan 1st the seconed pic is from lastnight about 5 weeks into flower
> 
> it was started from a 8inch rooted clone under a 600watt hps way to close i put in crappy bark filled dirt drowned and fryed her with nutes for few weeks then switched her to foxfarm mix with light warrior/ocean forest/chunky perlite and underwatered her its been a struggle the whole time for her to survive with how iv treated her
> 
> ...


well your obviously letting her die so it does not seem strange to me, she wants nutes that your not giving her and that may not be available in the leaves. I'd say keep an eye on her as more of them may very well turn "albino",,,,dead, necrotic, starved, unhappy they all mean the same thing


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## DTR (Jan 13, 2010)

it didnt turn albino it grew pure white on one half of just that one small bud and the buds are healthy just small 
this is my seconed attempt im not letting her die just learning what im doing wrong


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## riddleme (Jan 13, 2010)

DTR said:


> it didnt turn albino it grew pure white on one half of just that one small bud and the buds are healthy just small
> this is my seconed attempt im not letting her die just learning what im doing wrong


Ok my bad on the albino bud, but looking at the green healthy plant in 1st pic and then the yellowing leaves in the 2nd pic there is no doubt that she is dying, which is not normal by the way


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## DTR (Jan 13, 2010)

i hear you on that i got a moisture meter yesterday and fed them i have a very rich soil so im thinking that she just dried out way to often along with the abuse as a infant here she is from a further view shes hurting for sure so is my chemD that was also abused as a child then theres the bubbas that are a bit smaller they werent abused and seem fairly happy just had a very short veg

im going to use the moisture meter and keep them moist instead of x water per x time or waiting for them to droop or be to lite 

iv learned alot from this site and am always reading to learn more along with experimenting with my plants

i love this place all these veteran growers that share their knowledge my first attempt i was taken in by the hype wasted money and time but this grow is better then last and hopeing next will improve as well


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## wyteboi (Jan 14, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> hey ub
> 
> i was just reading my neem bottle....... i may have myself a situmantation on my hands?
> (well we all know im havin major lockout issues)
> ...



bump for me please 
sorry had to,


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## NMBudMan (Jan 14, 2010)

Okay, so this is my first plant and I'm still confused here. I have a similar problem. My plant is approx 3-4 weeks old. It was in a 2 liter soda bottle until I just replanted it in a 5 gal bucket w/holes in bottom for drainage. 

BEFORE i transplanted it, the lower-most set of leaves started turning brown at the tips and spreading down the whole leaf. I plucked those off and then transplanted. It beens two days and what is now the lowest set of leaves is starting to have the same problem. I've attached photos. Like i said, this started before i transplanted. 

I'm using the same potting soil as before. I think it has time release fertilizer ball-thingys in it, which I know now is bad for the small plants. Its about 3.5 inches tall and the roots were s inches deep in the soda bottle before i transplanted. I've got a 27watt CFL about 2 inches above the plant. its only the lowest leaves that are suffering. 
Please help!! This is my first baby and I don't want to lose it!http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy205/jgw2205/Basil Sprouts/resized__JGW8122.jpg
http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy205/jgw2205/Basil Sprouts/resized__JGW8120.jpg
http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy205/jgw2205/Basil Sprouts/resized__JGW8118.jpg


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## SIRE (Jan 17, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Yeah, more info is needed regarding elements given.
> 
> Are those the thrip damaged leaves?


*Hello UNCLE BEN how r u? First let me start off by saying ur research and experience is so valued here(NO duh huh?) Well i noticed its hard to find information u write on the veeeery begining stages. i havent been able to even get to the intricate parts other people have seen its frusrating. i would like to b ur PETER PARKER UNCLE BEN lol. hopefully i can start fresh with u and go day to day with u. well lemme tell u bout what has happened and im sure you'll agree i need help.*

*a friend gave me some seeds and i took them and soaked em for 24hrs and then placed them in the paper towel. i then proceeded to make a vegatative box. i bought a rubbermaid tub and top. i cut 2 holes under each handle across from each other one slightly higher than the other and mounted 2 80 mm pc fans over the holes one for intake one for exhaust then i lined the tub with milar (i later changed to black and white paper) and mounted a 24'' t5's under the top. i purchased a hot house and promix bx with mycourse soil. once the tap root was visible i placed em in a party cup full of the soil and 15% perlite. but unfortunately the holes i cut was too small and the temp in the tub was 93 to 97 degrees. well in an attempt to cool it down i over watered and i ruined em. so i scratched that and planned to start over. so i cut bigger holes (which til this day the box b anywhere from 78-85 degrees now) and ordered some feminized seeds from DR GREENTHUMB called ENDLESS SKY. when i was at the nursery the guy told me i shouldnt use the promix bx cause its too strong to start seeds in. so he showed me these rooting plugs called RAPID ROOTS and some root hormones called THRIVE ALIVE. according to the label it said soak the plugs i did in distilled water. then it says leave water under them in the tray well i did that and BAM!fungus. i germed 4 and 3 was hit by fungus the other one had oval leaves and very miniture true leaves. so i first called the nursery and once he read the lable on the RAPID ROOTS he said thats probably for tomatoes or something not cannibas (gee thanks!) then i called DR GREENTHUMB and asked him why the leaves havent grown he said i needed to feed it 1\4 strength fertilizer and i shouldve been doin that from the beginning (germination). so i went again to the nursery and bought some biobizz bio grow, alg-a-mic and fishmix. the chart that came with the stuff said dont feed bio grow until after a week and the alga-a-mic 2 weeks so i didnt use it. eventually the one died sooooo once again for the 3rd time i started over. this time i germed 4 seeds. i squeezed out most of the water til it was 1 or 2 drops of distilled water coming out then i put 3 that was showin their tap root in the hot house one was(and still is) idle two were growing strong so once they sprouted i placed them under the t5's and the next morning they were slumped over they were kinda dry i added water to them and the one that dropped the seed shell grew back up the other didnt for whatever reason. i'm going to order other seeds but i first want to kinda get directions day to day with u how bout it? i'm too frustrated to keep doing this.*


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 17, 2010)

SIRE said:


> *Hello UNCLE BEN how r u? **.....*


Doing fine. First things first, posting decorum - please don't post this in 3 different threads, also a new thread would be best.

Sounds like you got a germination problem and/or a case of pythium rot (damp-off) so I'll post my germ archive. Not set in stone and is rather anal, but for a noob it will guarantee results.



Uncle Ben said:


> Germinating Cannabis Seeds (for Bio Growers)
> 
> Your seedlings will be alot better off if you germinate directly in soil - less handling and mechanical disturbance means less chance of physical damage to the plant's taproot (and roothairs) and less food reserves used to position itself due to the natural hormonal influence called Gravitropism - that spells seedling VIGOR.
> 
> ...


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## SIRE (Jan 17, 2010)

uncle ben said:


> doing fine. First things first, posting decorum - please don't post this in 3 different threads, also a new thread would be best.
> 
> Sounds like you got a germination problem and/or a case of pythium rot (damp-off) so i'll post my germ archive. Not set in stone and is rather anal, but for a noob it will guarantee results.


 
thanks and i apologize im new to the forum tools and edicates. So would i b able to communicate with u thru this thread?


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 17, 2010)

SIRE said:


> thanks and i apologize im new to the forum tools and edicates. So would i b able to communicate with u thru this thread?


Not a problem.


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## DaveCoulier (Jan 18, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Heres something for you to read about peat moss.
> 
> http://www.dirtdoctor.com/newforum/root/needing-bulk-peat-moss-t8335.html
> 
> ...


Here are a couple of vids to watch that discuss spm and microbes for anyone interested. It seems SPM isn't sterile at all. 

_http://microbeorganics.com/cansphagnum1.wmv _

http://microbeorganics.com/cansphagnum2.wmv


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## wyteboi (Jan 19, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Here are a couple of vids to watch that discuss spm and microbes for anyone interested. It seems SPM isn't sterile at all.
> 
> _http://microbeorganics.com/cansphagnum1.wmv _
> 
> http://microbeorganics.com/cansphagnum2.wmv


Thanks very much dave! nice video's. Now i am really lost but thats alright. at least i know about what kind of scope to get now.


wb


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## buddys311 (Jan 21, 2010)

Can sombody please tell me how to revive tap water damaged 8 inch plants in 3 gal soil container


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## riddleme (Jan 21, 2010)

buddys311 said:


> Can sombody please tell me how to revive tap water damaged 8 inch plants in 3 gal soil container


Would need more info? What do you mean by "tap water damaged"???


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## SIRE (Jan 21, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Not a problem.


Hey how r u? well i followed ur germination stages. i did have a question tho..... u never mentioned light. when do i began with light?


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## mr.smileyface (Jan 22, 2010)

Hey uncle, I have plants that are in two gallon grow bags. There is no roots coming out of the bottom and they seem to be growing vigorously. They were in veg for 16 days and now 5 weeks done in flowering. They are about 2-3 feet tall. Im going in promix hp and giving them a good recipe. Only a few leaf tips curled down on two of them but seems like the other 145 got the perfect amount and they are very good looking ladies haha. I was just wondering if they could get potbound and what could happen if they got potbound. The grow bible says a 2 gallon can saport up to 2-3 months of growing. They didnt get any juice in veg because i was on a vacation in the cement walls under close watch  Its were all the dope growers dread being. Well i got out and they were in 12/12 the same day. I then fed them 1tbsp of 10-30-20 per gallon of water. I did that for the first few weeks to save money. After i gave them that i gave them a good flush to take out salt build up. That stuff tends to cause it. The pro mix seems fool proof. After the first few weeks of that i then begun a hydro recipe that i created from experiance with my ladies from before. I save the last week for cold water and purple buds  Anyways they are doing fine and wondering if they could get pott bound.


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## mr.smileyface (Jan 22, 2010)

mr.smileyface said:


> Hey uncle, I have plants that are in two gallon grow bags. There is no roots coming out of the bottom and they seem to be growing vigorously. They were in veg for 16 days and now 5 weeks done in flowering. They are about 2-3 feet tall. Im going in promix hp and giving them a good recipe. Only a few leaf tips curled down on two of them but seems like the other 145 got the perfect amount and they are very good looking ladies haha. I was just wondering if they could get potbound and what could happen if they got potbound. The grow bible says a 2 gallon can saport up to 2-3 months of growing. They didnt get any juice in veg because i was on a vacation in the cement walls under close watch  Its were all the dope growers dread being. Well i got out and they were in 12/12 the same day. I then fed them 1tbsp of 10-30-20 per gallon of water. I did that for the first few weeks to save money. After i gave them that i gave them a good flush to take out salt build up. That stuff tends to cause it. The pro mix seems fool proof. After the first few weeks of that i then begun a hydro recipe that i created from experiance with my ladies from before. I save the last week for cold water and purple buds  Anyways they are doing fine and wondering if they could get pott bound.


 i forgot to add her


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 22, 2010)

SIRE said:


> Hey how r u? well i followed ur germination stages. i did have a question tho..... u never mentioned light. when do i began with light?


Immediately. Read a book on plant culture basics.



mr.smileyface said:


> Hey uncle, I have plants that are in two gallon grow bags. There is no roots coming out of the bottom and they seem to be growing vigorously. They were in veg for 16 days and now 5 weeks done in flowering. They are about 2-3 feet tall. Im going in promix hp and giving them a good recipe. Only a few leaf tips curled down on two of them but seems like the other 145 got the perfect amount and they are very good looking ladies haha. I was just wondering if they could get potbound and what could happen if they got potbound.


It'll will stunt their growth. You can get around that somewhat by using a complete hydro food.



> The grow bible says a 2 gallon can saport up to 2-3 months of growing.


You can only use such "facts" as a guide. No two plants or gardens are the same. 



> They didnt get any juice in veg because i was on a vacation in the cement walls under close watch  Its were all the dope growers dread being. Well i got out and they were in 12/12 the same day. I then fed them 1tbsp of 10-30-20 per gallon of water. I did that for the first few weeks to save money.


TABLESPOON? I hope you meant teaspoon.


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## mr.smileyface (Jan 22, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Immediately. Read a book on plant culture basics.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can only use such "facts" as a guide. No two plants or gardens are the same. 

*That is also true. I have two growing in one three gallon and they are just as big as the others.*


*uhhh nope haha. I put a cup of it in 25 gallons. so two teaspoons each gallon. They were so hungry i had to. When i was using that blue powder 10-30-20. I waterd with that once a week and with water once a week. After 5 weeks there was no problems. Maybe they were just starved. Its a soilless mix so there is no nutes cept calcium. The 10-30-20 does not contain calcium and my tap water is under 50ppm. So they got all they needed. Im using hydro nutes now. They seem to be growing fine. How bad could the potbound hit them within the last three weeks?*


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 23, 2010)

mr.smileyface said:


> You can only use such "facts" as a guide. No two plants or gardens are the same.
> 
> *That is also true. I have two growing in one three gallon and they are just as big as the others.*
> 
> ...


You'll have to wait and see on the potbound situation. Some growers have such fast growing plants that their plants will become potbound quickly, some never reach that stage. Yep, treat soil-less like you would hydro.


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## mr.smileyface (Jan 23, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> You'll have to wait and see on the potbound situation. Some growers have such fast growing plants that their plants will become potbound quickly, some never reach that stage. Yep, treat soil-less like you would hydro.


 Is it less likly to get potbound since its more of a hydro? im sure soil is more compact and has less rooting space. How come rockwool doesnt get rootbound?


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 23, 2010)

mr.smileyface said:


> Is it less likly to get potbound since its more of a hydro? im sure soil is more compact and has less rooting space. How come rockwool doesnt get rootbound?


If your rockwool is in a very large space, then I guess it won't become rootbound. "Rootbound" usually refers to a condition for plants growing in soil in a pot.


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## lostkoastpyrate (Jan 24, 2010)

Heya Uncle Ben-
New to the webpage and stoked to have found your article... I am not new to gardening but am definitely using a new formula. i went organic for years and a little while back a friend convinced me to switch to house and garden. As far as my practice goes, I am using 4x1000w hps in a dialed room with little temp flux. Growing in 5 gallon pots in a soil medium, using RO water, and PHing accordingly. As far as babies go, I have 60 little ones with 4 strains, chem dawg, purple diesel, skush, and purple mist. Everything was going fine until I bumped up the house and garden nutrient level as recommended for the first week of veg, aggressive ration. My leaves have now gone from dark to light green, with patches of yellowing in between veins on the new and newer (as opposed to older) growth. Some of the leaves have also become bumpy in between veins. It appears as though i have over fertilized. They are no more than ten days old and I am debating whether to let them keep going until the soil dries up, flush them or what... Ahh, the problems of a new nutrient formula. 
Thanks in advance


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 24, 2010)

lostkoastpyrate said:


> Everything was going fine until I bumped up the house and garden nutrient level as recommended for the first week of veg, aggressive ration. My leaves have now gone from dark to light green, with patches of yellowing in between veins on the new and newer (as opposed to older) growth.


Welcome to the thread!

Not enough N, typical leaf chlorosis. You can't follow a chart or recommendations. No two gardens or plants are the same.

What's the NPK value of the food?


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## FoolBloom (Jan 24, 2010)

Hey uncle ben, first ill say that this single thread has helped me more than anything else I've found on riu(although I like all of riu). Thanks for your time and contributions here. I'm sorry if this has been covered on here before, but I haven't made it all the way through yet. I have recently had a powdery mold peroblem, I am having a bit of a humidity problem where my humidity was spiking as high as 80% during the light off hours. I consequently had a spider mite infestation that I was fighting off with a neem oil soap mix spray. The mites are under control and now I notice powder mold starting on a couple leafs here and there on several plants and one plant that had several lower branches that looked as though they had been swirled in a cotton candy maker. I went out today and bought a sulfur burner. Upon some researching I found a couple of sites that said not to burn within 30 days of any oil based applications or I have risk of burn! I last sprayed with the neem mix 3 days ago and I am currently in week 6 of flowering and only have 2 to 3 weeks left. I clipped away all affected areas that I found with the mold, but I know the room is now covered in spores. Should I risk running this burner? I'm now pretty much tapped for funsds after my recent purchase. I am getting the rh closer to ideal(my exhaust wasn't turning on at all during dark, now running) please help. I'm freaking out, I've been growing for a year and this is my first mold and rh disaster.


Thanks in advance.

Foolbloom


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 25, 2010)

Glad you're enjoying the thread! The webs sound like the House of Mites, not powdery mildew. If indeed you have PM, you can use Consan 20, in case the Neem isn't working. Just be sure you understand what you have before applying anything. 

Good luck ~


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## FoolBloom (Jan 25, 2010)

I've dealt with the mites the whole year I've been growing, but this is deff powder mold. At least on the leaves. The cotton candy branches didn't look anything like the mite webs I've seen in the past either. Can I run the burner. From what I've read the sulfur burner is a pretty effective tool, just not sure if I should risk it this crop or use it for later crops. Do you have any experience with these burners? My growshop owner also recomended it.


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 25, 2010)

FoolBloom said:


> I've dealt with the mites the whole year I've been growing, but this is deff powder mold. At least on the leaves. The cotton candy branches didn't look anything like the mite webs I've seen in the past either. Can I run the burner. From what I've read the sulfur burner is a pretty effective tool, just not sure if I should risk it this crop or use it for later crops. Do you have any experience with these burners? My growshop owner also recomended it.


I have no experience with those burners.


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## FoolBloom (Jan 25, 2010)

Well ill be the test dummy and let you know if I burn em bad. Hate to risk it but I don't want to lose a crop to mold. I am having a real problem with humidity, and I'm about a month out from affording my vented hoods and updated exhaust system. Thanks for the responses ub. I'm gonna monitor my mold and wait a couple more days to burn to lower my burn risk. Thanks again.


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## HookdOnChronics (Jan 25, 2010)

Hey there UB. First off I gotta say, I love all your post's! And believe you are a very wise gardener! I can't stand all the haters that talk shit about what you post, but then never post anything helpfull anyways! That pushed my buttons!.. But I have been reading your posts, and following what you have to say.

Anyways I just got back from a 3 day ski trip. Well my roomate's brother was at my place while I wasn't, long story short, the closet door got closed, my room door got closed, and I came home to the grow room being 98 degrees for the past 2 days and my plant drooping to the max with hard core leaf curling. I gave her some water last night, and she's purked back up. She still has very curled leaves and some yellowing. Looks just horrible compared to when I left.
I'm 44 days into flower. She's planted in MG potting mix/perlite (won't use again). 264W CFL's. 82 degrees. Using the MG Bloom Ferts, (Used the MG all purpose for veg) Water whenever the pot is light when lifted.

Is there anything that I can do to help her out? 

I was actually curious about something you posted on the first page under the "underwatering" part, you said "If severe, a little surfactant (liquid Ivory dish soap) added to the drench will help return the organics back to a normal moisture retentive state. If the pot feels light to the lift - it&#8217;s time to water." Is this just for organic growers?
I'd appreciate anything you have to say!

-Hookd


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## levellers (Jan 25, 2010)

hi, please could anyone help in diagosing my leaf problem. the set up is a 250w envirolight dcw/bubbleponics wardrobe grow, 20L ph'd hilltop spring water with 1/4 nutes being Canna Aqua vega A+B plus Rhizotonic. the strain is Big Buddha blue cheese on about week 3. i have another plant in the same space that is pretty much fine it just has a few very slight brown marks. here's some pics. cheers.

Room


Big Buddha blue cheese.
The leaves are very dry and will crumble


they're quite nasty i know but i dont get why this ones so bad compared to the cheese? it has had the same treatment as the cheese apart from the blue cheese seedling got a bit stretched cos i didn't have my room set up in time, also notice purple leaf stems i originaly put it down to night time temps being low??

big buddha Cheese


they are both branching out too though they are only 3 n a bit inches tall is that norm? bonus?
Thanks for reading.


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## levellers (Jan 25, 2010)

Thought i'd show you the tanks and roots aswell. 
Boxes are really useful


Blue cheese


Cheese


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 26, 2010)

HookdOnChronics said:


> Is there anything that I can do to help her out?


Won't help the plant but it might make you feel better - kick your roommate brother's ass. 



> I was actually curious about something you posted on the first page under the "underwatering" part, you said "If severe, a little surfactant (liquid Ivory dish soap) added to the drench will help return the organics back to a normal moisture retentive state. If the pot feels light to the lift - its time to water." Is this just for organic growers?
> I'd appreciate anything you have to say!
> 
> -Hookd


Yeah, water from the bottom up and drench with rainwater from the top once the soil has regained it's moisture holding ability, it that was a problem to begin with. Sounds like it got over heated.



levellers said:


> hi, please could anyone help in diagosing my leaf problem. the set up is a 250w envirolight dcw/bubbleponics wardrobe grow, 20L ph'd hilltop spring water with 1/4 nutes being Canna Aqua vega A+B plus Rhizotonic. the strain is Big Buddha blue cheese on about week 3. i have another plant in the same space that is pretty much fine it just has a few very slight brown marks. here's some pics. cheers.
> 
> RoomBig Buddha blue cheese.


I'd blame on the canna nutes and/or the way you're applying it. In general, you can gauge the health of a plant by looking at the new growth - it should be equal or bigger than the previous growth.


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## SIRE (Jan 26, 2010)

whats going on Unc? well i took ur advice and did some reading and understanding how plants in general works. well after reading the info going to the hydro store and alot of people on here u get confused again like for instance i read on here to start feeding ur plants when there 6" some say in 0ne week(biobizz's lable),and some say in 3 weeks help me out and have anyone used biobizz products?


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## HookdOnChronics (Jan 26, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Won't help the plant but it might make you feel better - kick your roommate brother's ass.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## DaveCoulier (Jan 26, 2010)

SIRE said:


> whats going on Unc? well i took ur advice and did some reading and understanding how plants in general works. well after reading the info going to the hydro store and alot of people on here u get confused again like for instance i read on here to start feeding ur plants when there 6" some say in 0ne week(biobizz's lable),and some say in 3 weeks help me out and have anyone used biobizz products?


It depends on whether or not your medium has any nutes in it. If there are no nutes, you can introduce them as early as day 4 or 5 from seed, albeit in minor doses like 15-20%.

If it has nutes in it, you typically will wait till 3 weeks are up. 

Ive used Bio-bizz, and you'll need to use their Fish mix plus Bio-Grow if the medium has no or low levels of nutes.


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## SIRE (Jan 27, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> It depends on whether or not your medium has any nutes in it. If there are no nutes, you can introduce them as early as day 4 or 5 from seed, albeit in minor doses like 15-20%.
> 
> If it has nutes in it, you typically will wait till 3 weeks are up.
> 
> Ive used Bio-bizz, and you'll need to use their Fish mix plus Bio-Grow if the medium has no or low levels of nutes.


thanks for responding. well yeah i have the biobizz grow the fish mix and the alg- a- mic. the medium im using is pro mix bx. it has peatmoss 75%-85%, perlite, mycorise pro, vermiculite, dolomitic and calcitic limestone and wetting agent. so does this mean i can start now? the seedlings r 7 days from being put in the soil.


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## DaveCoulier (Jan 27, 2010)

SIRE said:


> thanks for responding. well yeah i have the biobizz grow the fish mix and the alg- a- mic. the medium im using is pro mix bx. it has peatmoss 75%-85%, perlite, mycorise pro, vermiculite, dolomitic and calcitic limestone and wetting agent. so does this mean i can start now? the seedlings r 7 days from being put in the soil.


Pro-mix is pretty nutrient light, so Id start your plants off with just the Bio-Grow/Alg-A-Mic for now. Bio-Grow is pretty mild stuff. 1-2ml per liter until a couple weeks old, then Id introduce the Fishmix to their feeding. 

Now are the seedlings 7 days since breaking the soil..or just 7 days since put into the soil?

Also regarding promix, people often amend it with compost or earth worm castings, and/or organic amendments like bone meal/blood meal/alfalfa meal, etc, etc. Compost/EWC will aid in the digestion of your Bio-Bizz products from the extra microbes. You may want to try that out when you up-pot later on.


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## SIRE (Jan 27, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Pro-mix is pretty nutrient light, so Id start your plants off with just the Bio-Grow/Alg-A-Mic for now. Bio-Grow is pretty mild stuff. 1-2ml per liter until a couple weeks old, then Id introduce the Fishmix to their feeding.
> 
> Now are the seedlings 7 days since breaking the soil..or just 7 days since put into the soil?
> 
> ...


 
the seedlings 7 days from being put in tha soil. about 4 days since breaking soil. so u say introduce the alg a mic mix (by the way whats the benifits of this?) and bio grow now? and when do u introduce the fishmix?


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## DaveCoulier (Jan 27, 2010)

SIRE said:


> the seedlings 7 days from being put in tha soil. about 4 days since breaking soil. so u say introduce the alg a mic mix (by the way whats the benifits of this?) and bio grow now? and when do u introduce the fishmix?


Id give em day 5. Or if you feel more comfortable you can go day 7. I know it seems weird to give seedlings nutes, but they do benefit from it in the right dosage. I wish I had bookmarked a thread that was pretty interesting. A guy did 20 seedlings in Rapid Rooters(composted tree bark), 10 in MG Organic Soil, and 10 in Fox Farms Ocean Forest. They got water for the first 7 days, and at day 7 the MG, and FFOF seedlings were 1.5-2x as large as the rapid rooter ones. 

Alg-A-Mic has micros, trace elements and a little macros, but the real benefit is supposed to be from the plant growth hormones extracted from the kelp. Do they really do what is said? I have no clue. You can do some googling about kelp and plant hormones. Lots out there to read. 

Go ahead and introduce Fish Mix at 2 weeks old or so. They dont need alot of nutes now, and it right now isn't necessary. Wait till they're a bit bigger and demanding more food.


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## SIRE (Jan 27, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Id give em day 5. Or if you feel more comfortable you can go day 7. I know it seems weird to give seedlings nutes, but they do benefit from it in the right dosage. I wish I had bookmarked a thread that was pretty interesting. A guy did 20 seedlings in Rapid Rooters(composted tree bark), 10 in MG Organic Soil, and 10 in Fox Farms Ocean Forest. They got water for the first 7 days, and at day 7 the MG, and FFOF seedlings were 1.5-2x as large as the rapid rooter ones.
> 
> Alg-A-Mic has lots of micros and a little macros, but the real benefit is supposed to be from the plant growth hormones extracted from the kelp. Do they really do what is said? I have no clue. You can do some googling about kelp and plant hormones. Lots out there to read.
> 
> ...


 
with the risk of asking a foolish question when u say 7 days r u referring to 7 days from breaking soil? and do i put the alg a mic and biogrow in the same bottle?


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## DaveCoulier (Jan 27, 2010)

SIRE said:


> with the risk of asking a foolish question when u say 7 days r u referring to 7 days from breaking soil? and do i put the alg a mic and biogrow in the same bottle?


7 days since breaking soil. 

Its okay to mix bio-grow and alg-a-mic together when preparing feed.


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## SIRE (Jan 27, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> 7 days since breaking soil.
> 
> Its okay to mix bio-grow and alg-a-mic together when preparing feed.


thanks bro. what does the fish mix do? and when do people put worm castings and the other stuff u referred to in the promix?


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## wyteboi (Jan 27, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Also regarding promix, people often amend it with compost or earth worm castings, and/or organic amendments like bone meal/blood meal/alfalfa meal, etc, etc. Compost/EWC will aid in the digestion of your Bio-Bizz products from the extra microbes. You may want to try that out when you up-pot later on.


I think this is a MUST with promix IF using organic foods. I have done too much testing with promix, and all test results lead to the biological activity in promix just is not enough to work proper with organic foods. (works great with chems though!) Now if you add compost and or EWC then its a great enviroment for the microbes.
I usually dont just pop in right in the middle of someone helping someone else , but i feel i need to toss my 2 cents in before you get too far with the promix.


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## SIRE (Jan 27, 2010)

SIRE said:


> thanks bro. what does the fish mix do? and when do people put worm castings and the other stuff u referred to in the promix?


i saw ur private message but couldnt access it


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## DaveCoulier (Jan 27, 2010)

SIRE said:


> i saw ur private message but couldnt access it


I get that same message when I try to go to the message via the popup. Go to your "My Rollitup", and there should be a link to my message in the middle of your screen.


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## levellers (Jan 27, 2010)

thanks for all the replies? i'm thinking i shouldn't have bothered wasting my time posting? sussed it out myself with no help from RIU. the problem i dont think was moisture stress and is not due to the way i am feeding them or the nutes themselves. The sealant used to hold the airstones on the bottom tanks for some reason had not completely set, the sealant had set solid on the outside but when i pulled the stones out there was a little bit in the middle that was not set and this must have been putting god knows what into the water burning the plant. i'm only posting for the sakes of anyone else having a problem like this in the future if at all likely. thank you Uncle Ben for your addition.

Disclaimer: I do not buy, sell, cultivate, manufacture, or use any illegal substance. Any postings I make on this forum are purely for entertainment purposes Any pictures that I may post have been created by artificial means from images gathered from the internet


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## hangshai (Jan 28, 2010)

I dont know if uncle ben is stiill around in this thread, but I definitely need someones help...

I posted this in another thread,so its kind of a repost, but I think its appropriate to whats being discussed...

*White Rhino under 1000 HPS, 2 weeks. Soil/clone.

*Title has most of the details. I have a white rhino baby that is in my room right now, its about 12 inches tall. It has some discoloration on the newest growth. Like a reddish brown color. I was thinking maybe nutrient lockout from PH, or some kind of Phosphorous or Iron deficiency. I have begun feeding with a mild nutrient solution, it is my own recipe that I use that is pretty complete. Before yesterday, i was just using water because I start my babies in Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil, and it usually burns my plants if I feed right off the bat.

So, Im going to give it a couple days to see if feeding them clears it up, but, I am worried it may be something else like:

1)Maybe not enough fresh air in the room? With the exhaust fan on, it gets down to 68-70 degrees. I am trying to run co2 as well, so, Id like it to be a little warmer, but its cold in January!! If I turn off ALL the fans and exhaust, then I get it up to 74, but then there is no air exchange or movement.

2)Too much co2? I have it set really low on the tank, but because only 1 fan and my exhaust fan are on, maybe its not leaving the room as fast as usual?

3)too cold? it gets from 59-61 with lights off, to 68-71 with lights on. Only 1 light is on, because they are just babies. I have my inline fans off too, to warm up the room as much as possible.

So, like I said, I began feeding last night, so I hope that gets them back to what they usually look like, which is a luscious green and FAST growth, around an inch a day it seems. Can anyone help?

Ive enclosed a pic of the best shot I could get of the discoloration on the new growth. Oh, the stems have red stripes too.

One more thing. SOme of the leaves seem swollen, if that makes sense. Also, some of the edges of the bigger leaves are turned up right on the very edge. Im thinking this is just from water transpiration? Too much maybe?


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## DaveCoulier (Jan 28, 2010)

How close are the lights? 

I had a plant that developed similar brown/red at the newest growth and it was because I had the lights too close. Once the light was raised up, all was taken care of. Hopefully thats your problem as well.


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## hangshai (Jan 28, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> How close are the lights?
> 
> I had a plant that developed similar brown/red at the newest growth and it was because I had the lights too close. Once the light was raised up, all was taken care of. Hopefully thats your problem as well.


 
Yeah, I have moved them back, it didnt look like a burn, more reddish than brown, and the leaf isnt damaged, just discolored. I figured since the room was so cool could set the lights closer. Right now Im about 12-18 inches away from the tallest plant, about 24 inches from the smallest plants.


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## DaveCoulier (Jan 28, 2010)

hangshai said:


> Yeah, I have moved them back, it didnt look like a burn, more reddish than brown, and the leaf isnt damaged, just discolored. I figured since the room was so cool could set the lights closer. Right now Im about 12-18 inches away from the tallest plant, about 24 inches from the smallest plants.


I experienced the same exact thing. It will get worse if you leave the lights and plant as is. 

Id keep the 1k 20 inches or more away to start with. 

Maybe you can get a good distance in this thread:

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/723-things-know-about-lighting.html


----------



## mr.smileyface (Jan 29, 2010)

So UB. do you use nitrogen at the end aswell? Do you flush and for how long? I learned how to grow weed from overgrow a while back and pissed off when they shut it down. I see that your in the growbible for credits. What did they use you for? jw. 
Do you think its a good idea to take all the bigg leafs off when your doing a 6 day flush? Should i wait till the last three days? Have you ever had a strain that wasnt suited for you?


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jan 30, 2010)

mr.smileyface said:


> So UB. do you use nitrogen at the end aswell?


If the plant requires it, of course.



> Do you flush and for how long?


Flushing is a myth. I believe in plant health, not in unsubstantiated gimmicks.



> I learned how to grow weed from overgrow a while back and pissed off when they shut it down. I see that your in the growbible for credits. What did they use you for? jw.


See page 69 & 70.



> Do you think its a good idea to take all the bigg leafs off when your doing a 6 day flush? Should i wait till the last three days? Have you ever had a strain that wasnt suited for you?


Leave the leaves alone. Strain? Dalat is one pain in the ass for indoors.

UB


----------



## SIRE (Jan 30, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> If the plant requires it, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hello uncle ben i left a private message for u but then i read at the bottom of each of ur replies to others that says u cant get new visitors messages. i did have somethings i wanted to ask how can u tell scientifically tell how potent (finished product) marijuana is besides smoking it and is there anything u can do to add or take away from the potency


----------



## super2200 (Jan 30, 2010)

levellers said:


> thanks for all the replies? i'm thinking i shouldn't have bothered wasting my time posting? sussed it out myself with no help from RIU. the problem i dont think was moisture stress and is not due to the way i am feeding them or the nutes themselves. The sealant used to hold the airstones on the bottom tanks for some reason had not completely set, the sealant had set solid on the outside but when i pulled the stones out there was a little bit in the middle that was not set and this must have been putting god knows what into the water burning the plant. i'm only posting for the sakes of anyone else having a problem like this in the future if at all likely. thank you Uncle Ben for your addition.
> 
> Disclaimer: I do not buy, sell, cultivate, manufacture, or use any illegal substance. Any postings I make on this forum are purely for entertainment purposes Any pictures that I may post have been created by artificial means from images gathered from the internet


ARe you for real? you explain that you discovered a chemical sealant problem (if you used any waterproof sealant it wouldnt matter if it were everywhere in the tank) anyway you bash RIU because no one told you this? lol thanks for the heads up I will make sure to never use anything toxic in my res


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jan 30, 2010)

SIRE said:


> hello uncle ben i left a private message for u but then i read at the bottom of each of ur replies to others that says u cant get new visitors messages. i did have somethings i wanted to ask how can u tell scientifically tell how potent (finished product) marijuana is besides smoking it and is there anything u can do to add or take away from the potency


I have no problem with PM's. I can't open up something called "new visitor messages", like I said.

Grow a healthy plant, keep RH and temps fairly low during flowering, harvest at the right time, buy a book on indoor gardening.


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## SIRE (Jan 30, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> I have no problem with PM's. I can't open up something called "new visitor messages", like I said.
> 
> Grow a healthy plant, keep RH and temps fairly low during flowering, harvest at the right time, buy a book on indoor gardening.


ok thanx for ur help


----------



## SIRE (Jan 30, 2010)

SIRE said:


> ok thanx for ur help


u say keep temps during flowering low and grow a healthy plant. whats RH and what brand of feedings (AN, Biobizz,etc) do u lean towards?


----------



## DaveCoulier (Jan 30, 2010)

SIRE said:


> u say keep temps during flowering low and grow a healthy plant. whats RH and what brand of feedings (AN, Biobizz,etc) do u lean towards?


RH= Relative Humidity. When it is high it leads to bud rot & Powdery Mildew. Its thought that lower humidity increases Trichome production. Ive never really looked into that much though. Your priority should be to keep humidity in check to prevent major problems and if it does increase Trichome production thats an added benefit.

UB doesn't use products "designed" for MJ. Thats one thing he'll tell you to get out of you head. A plant is a plant. It'll grow just fine with 'regular' nutes. 

P.S. UB, I think you should put what nutes you like in your Signature. Ive lost count of how many times that question has been asked.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jan 31, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> P.S. UB, I think you should put what nutes you like in your Signature. Ive lost count of how many times that question has been asked.


Hi Dave, sup?

Folks need to learn to read our posts.


----------



## riddleme (Jan 31, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Hi Dave, sup?
> 
> Folks need to learn to read our posts.


AMEN, when it comes to learnin in a forum a person needs to read and research to find the right answers as there are so many contradictions as well as different styles when it comes to growing

I love the post that start out "Couldn't read the whole thing but it looks really good, can you help me with x,y,z"

and everyday I am simply entertained by reading new post & questions where so many wrong answers are given and when you interject with the right answer or the truth folks ignore it, cause it doesn't fit the parots version of things


----------



## GrowingfortheGold (Jan 31, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I love the post that start out "Couldn't read the whole thing but it looks really good, can you help me with x,y,z"


Haha I've seen that many times. Pretty selfish imo. Tells me poster isn't gonna read my post and offer me a honest comment or advice. So then why should I offer them my comments or advice? I always thought speech was a give and take deal. So if you can't speak to me how am I supposed to hear you? haha


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## W Dragon (Jan 31, 2010)

hey guys possibly another dumbass question here for you so please take it easy on me what does IOW stand? for i see ub uses it often but i haven't got a clue what it stands for thanks for the help guys


----------



## GrowingfortheGold (Jan 31, 2010)

in other words...


----------



## W Dragon (Jan 31, 2010)

GrowingfortheGold said:


> in other words...


thankyou mate much appreciated i'm not very good when it comes to abreviations rep for the help and not taking the piss, it was driving me nuts


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jan 31, 2010)

W Dragon said:


> thankyou mate much appreciated i'm not very good when it comes to abreviations rep for the help and not taking the piss, it was driving me nuts


FWIW - for what it's worth
AKA - also known as
FYI - for your information
BTW - by the way


----------



## hangshai (Jan 31, 2010)

Well, I posted a few pages back with pics. Since then, I haven't really moved the lights much, they are still the same distance, although I have managed to get it up to about 74 degrees constantly with lights on, about 59-60 with lights off. Also, I started feeding with full nute solution and it seems to be clearing up the problem, bringing out the red spots and turning back into green. From what I read the read spots could have been from a lack of P or N, so the full dose nutes should cover it. The only other thing I thikn nit may have been from was because I turned my co2 on for the first couple days and I may have been strangling the babies with too much co2. Ive turned it off for now, and they have definitely bounced back, but, now Im wondering how early in veg can you turn on co2? Can you do it as soon as your clones are rooted, or should you at least wait until the plant is 10-12 inches tall?


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## mr.smileyface (Feb 1, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> See page 69 & 70.
> 
> 
> 
> UB


 Your flo? or chunk


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 1, 2010)

hangshai said:


> Ive turned it off for now, and they have definitely bounced back, but, now Im wondering how early in veg can you turn on co2? Can you do it as soon as your clones are rooted, or should you at least wait until the plant is 10-12 inches tall?


I never bothered with CO2 injection, but I don't see why you couldn't use it at any time.



mr.smileyface said:


> Your flo? or chunk


No, the Griffin's Spin-Out experiment.


----------



## Growlow (Feb 1, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!, or, My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong? Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the solution the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. Ill try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.
> 
> ...


 + rep brother.


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## W Dragon (Feb 1, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> FWIW - for what it's worth
> AKA - also known as
> FYI - for your information
> BTW - by the way


thanks mate that'll save me looking like a dimb arse in future lol i'm still adjusting to using the pc. i'll be sending rep over aswell when it lets me, for the most part i only read yours and riddleme's threads i was wondering if you know of any other educational threads like yours that would benefit a noob like myself, oh yeah i'll be ordering mel franks book next week thanks mate


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 2, 2010)

W Dragon said:


> thanks mate that'll save me looking like a dimb arse in future lol i'm still adjusting to using the pc. i'll be sending rep over aswell when it lets me, for the most part i only read yours and riddleme's threads i was wondering if you know of any other educational threads like yours that would benefit a noob like myself, oh yeah i'll be ordering mel franks book next week thanks mate


Frank offers solid, simple info which is what you need. There's plenty of info on the web about plant culture. Aside from guys like Mel Frank's hard copy, I'd stay away from cannabis forums or at least take them with a grain of salt. There's too much confusion and hype and that's not what you need to succeed. Anyone can flip a timer, not many will take the time to understand what makes a plant tick.

Here's another site that dispels alot of horticultural myths, a must read at this link: http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda Chalker-Scott/


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## W Dragon (Feb 2, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Frank offers solid, simple info which is what you need. There's plenty of info on the web about plant culture. Aside from guys like Mel Frank's hard copy, I'd stay away from cannabis forums or at least take them with a grain of salt. There's too much confusion and hype and that's not what you need to succeed. Anyone can flip a timer, not many will take the time to understand what makes a plant tick.
> 
> Here's another site that dispels alot of horticultural myths, a must read at this link: http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda Chalker-Scott/


thanks mate!!!, i couldn't agree with you more about the forums, i've been looking in the wrong places for some education every search i've done has had the word cannabis in it, i can't wait to get Mel's book


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## SIRE (Feb 3, 2010)

uncle ben...... i've been doing well on the grow side since ive talk to u dave and other cats on here thank all of u. now i've been on a few other forums and i came across a few things. i no u said u dont use nutes specified for mari but i still wanted to enlist ur expertise. i have biobizz products (bio grow, fishmix,) i just bought some cal-mag, and superthrive (which is already added in my gallon of distilled water) now can i mix the bio grow fish and cal-mag together in one spray?


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 3, 2010)

SIRE said:


> uncle ben...... i've been doing well on the grow side since ive talk to u dave and other cats on here thank all of u. now i've been on a few other forums and i came across a few things. i no u said u dont use nutes specified for mari but i still wanted to enlist ur expertise. i have biobizz products (bio grow, fishmix,) i just bought some cal-mag, and superthrive (which is already added in my gallon of distilled water) now can i mix the bio grow fish and cal-mag together in one spray?


Spray? Don't know, try it and see.


----------



## metroplex (Feb 3, 2010)

Greetings Uncle Ben and everyone else

you are a legend here i see and perhaps i should call you Dr Ben 

Uncle Ben i'm seriously concerned about my plants and their leaves, i have a thread here and i was hoping if you could pop in and have a look whats going. I have been getting some good advice and some are even saying there is no problem and i should not worry but the leaves have been droopy since they went into 12/12 on satuday and stayed droopy ever since.

below is the thread and it would be a great honor if you could leave behind some of your sound advice please!!!

its only 2 pages so not too long a read

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/298542-please-someone-help-pale-green.html


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## mr.smileyface (Feb 3, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> I never bothered with CO2 injection, but I don't see why you couldn't use it at any time.
> 
> 
> 
> No, the Griffin's Spin-Out experiment.


 ohhh ok 59 and 60. "stress"


----------



## SIRE (Feb 3, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Spray? Don't know, try it and see.


i didnt mean spray litterally tha spray bottle i should say.


----------



## DaveCoulier (Feb 3, 2010)

SIRE said:


> uncle ben...... i've been doing well on the grow side since ive talk to u dave and other cats on here thank all of u. now i've been on a few other forums and i came across a few things. i no u said u dont use nutes specified for mari but i still wanted to enlist ur expertise. i have biobizz products (bio grow, fishmix,) i just bought some cal-mag, and superthrive (which is already added in my gallon of distilled water) now can i mix the bio grow fish and cal-mag together in one spray?


Im curious, are you using RO water? If not, the Cal-Mag shouldn't be necessary as long as your soil, and nutes supply adequate amounts of cal-mag. 

If you are using RO water, I dont see anything wrong with mixing the bio-grow and cal-mag.


----------



## jjfoo (Feb 8, 2010)

I have some rooted clones vegging. I have been really scared to over water (some 1 gal some 2 gal smart pots). I have watered little by little. Yesterday I decided to get run off. It seems like that grow overnight. I wish I measured them before. I think I may have been under watering. I'm really scared to overwater...


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## jjfoo (Feb 8, 2010)

dakin3d said:


> Last, do you use CO2? Is it a bad thing to use CO2 in an environment that will receive very little 'new air', due to lack of ventilation?


Some people CO2 is a waste, but people who use it actually want lack of new air. They make sealed rooms. I'm just saying that if you use CO2 you want no new air.


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## GrowingfortheGold (Feb 8, 2010)

Lol man if your too scared to try anything new your not gonna learn anything. It's called the school of hard knocks for a reason. You will learn to water right by doing it wrong a few times.


----------



## jjfoo (Feb 8, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Keep the fans on constantly.
> 
> 
> 
> UB


the question was:
Can too much fan be a problem? IOW, is is a bad thing to keep the fan on the plants consistently, w/o oscillation?



Just want to double check, it is OK to not have an oscillation fan or are you answering the first part of the question about too much fan. Cervantes says it will dry the plants too much if there is no oscillation, do you disagree?


----------



## DaveCoulier (Feb 8, 2010)

jjfoo said:


> I have some rooted clones vegging. I have been really scared to over water (some 1 gal some 2 gal smart pots). I have watered little by little. Yesterday I decided to get run off. It seems like that grow overnight. I wish I measured them before. I think I may have been under watering. I'm really scared to overwater...


If you have a well draining soil plus tall pots, you shouldn't encounter any problems with over-watering. Dont be afraid to over-water. Even if you do, you learn what the symptoms are and and further refine your watering regime. 



jjfoo said:


> the question was:
> Can too much fan be a problem? IOW, is is a bad thing to keep the fan on the plants consistently, w/o oscillation?
> 
> 
> ...


I dont have any fans in my flowering tents.  Dont feel like spending $20+ for a 6 inch clip on fan. 

Putting the fan directly on the plants seems like a bad idea due to wind burn, but I had a small walmart oscillating fan on low on my plants in veg when I had the space and no wind-burn or anything. Keep it on oscillating and a low setting and you'll probably encounter no problems. Or you can direct the fan at an angle of a wall, so the air glances off of it for air circulation.


----------



## wyteboi (Feb 9, 2010)

GrowingfortheGold said:


> Lol man if your too scared to try anything new your not gonna learn anything. It's called the school of hard knocks for a reason. You will learn to water right by doing it wrong a few times.


ballsy sig ... 
For the record i dont smoke or even know what it looks like.


----------



## DocBud (Feb 10, 2010)

OK, I've been lurking and occasionally posting on this thread since September of 2009. I've read every page.

I've adjusted my growing style significantly as a result of what I've learned on this thread and I must say that this is the best thread on the web when it comes to intelligent growing.

Here's my question:

I've got 8 plants on day 23 of flower, they are very healthy. I've kept the NPK under control and have kept the N a bit higher than is customary amongst hobby dope growers, in order to keep lots of healthy leaves. When I pulled the males the roots were very nice....everything is going well.

So, my plants are a very dark green. Darker than other people's plants. The leaves aren't burned, the buds are forming....but damn, they're dark green!

Am I feeding too much nitrogen?


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 10, 2010)

DocBud said:


> I've got 8 plants on day 23 of flower, *they are very healthy*......
> 
> So, my plants are a very dark green. Darker than other people's plants. The leaves aren't burned, the buds are forming....but damn, they're dark green!
> 
> Am I feeding too much nitrogen?


No.

Welcome to the Guild of Master Gardeners.

UB


----------



## DocBud (Feb 11, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> No.
> 
> Welcome to the Guild of Master Gardeners.
> 
> UB


Master gardener?

Not me. I'm a copy cat. I just copied what I learned on this thread....that and pretended I was growing tomatos instead of a magical, mythical, otherworldly plant.


----------



## Kriegs (Feb 11, 2010)

DocBud said:


> Master gardener?
> 
> Not me. I'm a copy cat. I just copied what I learned on this thread....that and pretended I was growing tomatos instead of a magical, mythical, otherworldly plant.


Welcome to the copy cat club...! 

Magical, mythical, otherworldly -- well said! I did my first grow last year after gardening every non-MJ plant you can think of outdoors, in 4 very different US states, for about 25 years. Well, I threw _everything I knew_ out the window cuz "this plant is special.." Hah!

These threads are like "homecoming" for me..


----------



## wyteboi (Feb 11, 2010)

This might not be the master gardner thread but most of the folks in it are VERY knowledgeable and if you mix this thread with hands on, you are on the right step of being a Mj-G.


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## kushblower (Feb 11, 2010)

what up uncle ben. I would love it if you could take a look at my setup/plant and tell me what you think. i beleive i recently overwatered, but an experts opinion would be great. here is my thread. thanks.
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/300124-first-time-grower-couple-small.html


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## jjfoo (Feb 11, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Here's your problem - EARTH JUICE BLOOM 0 - 3 - 1. No nitrogen. You can't expect a decent yield if you deprive the plant of sufficient N to maintain leaves. They just sold you crap. I'm not sure why you would stop including blood meal or bone meal. That is some of my main additives to soil.
> 
> And just as an aside, based on this ideologically driven propaganda, I wouldn't touch this product with a ten foot pole. "*No hidden NPK boosting synthetics No artificial additives, colors, or vitamins No added chlorine or formaldehyde."
> 
> ...


This isn't meant to be offensive. Don't judge a product based on what someone says. The same way you tell us not to blindly listen to cannabis forums.

EJ is a multipart formula and used correctly contains N. They let you decide how much or little to use. I use EJ and after reading your writings am adding N. If you follow the directions on the bottle you can get normal NPK values, but most people alter the recipie based on beliefs and post it as gospel for others to follow in place of the directions on the bottle.


Also, Earth Juice Grow is NPK: 2-1-1 and 
Earth Juice Bloom is NPK: 0-3-1
they also sell meta k which is NPK: 0-0-10

so you can mix I had nitrogen mix if you adjust the ratios if you follow their directions you will always use plenty of Grow

I always read the manufacturers recommendations, but there is a good chance many ignore it.


----------



## jjfoo (Feb 11, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> I have never been the one to jump on the bandwagon , but after 2 pages of talkin to you , you helped me to realize that i was doing just that, I jumped right on the wagon with all 10 bottles of food and was just reading labels just like the rest.
> READ your plants folks NOT the label.
> 
> Thanks UB!



I can relate, I come from the organic belief system, and always prided my self as someone with no beliefs...


----------



## jjfoo (Feb 11, 2010)

DocBud said:


> What, if anything, would be wrong with putting some Osmocote 14/14/14 in the pot, watering properly, supplementing if needed and exercising patience?


this sounds like it has great potential

if it uses osmosis in the feeding process it seems like you could just mix up a pot and use only water if you put enough upfront



do you guys add this once then still water with nutes?


----------



## DocBud (Feb 11, 2010)

jjfoo said:


> this sounds like it has great potential
> 
> if it uses osmosis in the feeding process it seems like you could just mix up a pot and use only water if you put enough upfront
> 
> ...


I'm doing a little experiment with this.

I got a clone that was moderately healthy...there was some burnt tips, it had mites, was a little ragged but still green.

I took some FFOF soil, mixed in about 1/3 perlite and the recommended amount of Osmocote, and plunked the rockwool cube in the soil. I water with non-ph'd tap water and will not add any more nutes unless a clear deficiency is present.

I started the clone on 12/12 right alongside my other plants.

That was 3 weeks ago. Today, the clone is green and healthy, and although it's only 5 or 6 inches tall, it's in full flower. No nute burn, no "lock out," just a small healthy plant.

I estimate the cost of the "nutes" to be under 20 cents. 

I've got a ton of flowers that I've grown this way. They don't have "lock out," or "Nute burn" either.

It's taken me a while, but I think I'm finally cured of the mystical approach to growing cannabis. I now think it's just another plant....and a rather hardy and easy to grow one at that.


----------



## jjfoo (Feb 11, 2010)

I hope this works out... It seems like it is too good to be true.


----------



## jjfoo (Feb 12, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> yea send me a link please.
> i just didnt know what kind of compost to get?
> also whats EWC ?
> 
> THANKS again!


read about AACT

people have claimed (PHD's) that by mixing the compost with a sugar source (like molasses) and bubbling for 30-40 hours or so you can increase the countable bacteria by three orders of magnitude. Like from 1 mil to 9 bil.

bacteria are able to reproduce rapidly give the right environment... in this case lost of air and sugar


----------



## jjfoo (Feb 12, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> A low N amount is normal for most of your cannabis specific products, not normal regarding normal plant requirements. Why your resellers promote such crap is anybody's guess.



my guess is that it is supply and demand... people read forums with out looking into standard horiculture practices and basic botany to get their info and demand this stuff


----------



## jjfoo (Feb 12, 2010)

Is it safe to say that if my plants are not drooping then they are *not* under watered?


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 12, 2010)

DocBud said:


> .....It's taken me a while, but I think I'm finally cured of the mystical approach to growing cannabis. I now think it's just another plant....and a rather hardy and easy to grow one at that.


Welcome to the real world.


----------



## its me (Feb 12, 2010)

Help leaves are twisting an curling up??? dont know what could have cuased this DWC/CEA 5.5-5.7ph. 1250ppm.70' 70%.1200ppm Co2. water 68' degrees.2 air stones in 5 gal bucket. lights are fine at 10in. and at the base of the rockwool was a bit higher PH aswell as the nutes but has been back under control. any help Thanks


----------



## jjfoo (Feb 12, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Welcome to the real world.


I've been set free, too. I have a hard time relating to people on y old forums and have lost interest. I'm growing tomatoes in my back yard and see the direct link to my indoor growing skills.

Today I got some nutes from a horticulture company for vegetables, lots of N all the way to the end. This is just the opposite of what I used to do.

I am really grateful to UB and his time he spends sharing his knowledge. I just finished reading three of his threads (moisture stress, topping, and garden tweaks. I'll be looking to start some more as my next manic read sessions.


----------



## RockyMt.Cloner (Feb 12, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Could very well be, most likely fungus gnat larvae, perhaps Springtails which will jump when you water. Did you pop the plant out and inspect the rootball? Just do it. Look for insect damage, soil structure (is it in a state of decay). Smell the rootball, it should have a fresh earthy smell, not a sour or off smell like your grandma's marching boots. The roots should be white or beige in color.


 U.B. how would one go about treating for Springtails and other gnat larvae..would neemz oil work?


----------



## riddleme (Feb 13, 2010)

jjfoo said:


> I've been set free, too. I have a hard time relating to people on y old forums and have lost interest. I'm growing tomatoes in my back yard and see the direct link to my indoor growing skills.
> 
> Today I got some nutes from a horticulture company for vegetables, lots of N all the way to the end. This is just the opposite of what I used to do.
> 
> I am really grateful to UB and his time he spends sharing his knowledge. I just finished reading three of his threads (moisture stress, topping, and garden tweaks. *I'll be looking to start some more as my next manic read sessions*.


looking for a good read? click my NooB Advice link in sig, yeah it's up to 80 pages but the good stuff goes to like page 40 (after that it's questions & discussion) What we did in the thread was to debunk several myths and tie all the Uncle Ben mantras together with specific instruction (UB helped us with this) it turned out pretty good with several new growers that now are converted to the UB way of growing and all now have healthy plants

Take a look and enjoy


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 13, 2010)

RockyMt.Cloner said:


> U.B. how would one go about treating for Springtails and other gnat larvae..would neemz oil work?


I doubt it. You could try orange oil or a dose of malathion, the latter being a sure bet.



its me said:


> Help leaves are twisting an curling up??? dont know what could have cuased this DWC/CEA 5.5-5.7ph. 1250ppm.70' 70%.1200ppm Co2. water 68' degrees.2 air stones in 5 gal bucket. lights are fine at 10in. and at the base of the rockwool was a bit higher PH aswell as the nutes but has been back under control. any help Thanks


See my sig link


----------



## jjfoo (Feb 13, 2010)

riddleme said:


> looking for a good read? click my NooB Advice link in sig, yeah it's up to 80 pages but the good stuff goes to like page 40 (after that it's questions & discussion)




Thanks, I'm on it


----------



## thelightison (Feb 16, 2010)

this saved my girls, thank you. I was waiting to long b/t watering on my seedlings and hope they pull thru. cant wait till harvest.


----------



## mdestiny (Feb 16, 2010)

i need help my leaves are praying how can i fix my problem.


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## wyteboi (Feb 16, 2010)

Hey UB , 
what do u think about them cheap soil test? NPK an ph , do you think they will work, and will it be easy to understand the results? this aint very detailed but its what im lookin at:
http://www.jungseed.com/dp.asp?pID=51345&c=607&p=Professional+Soil+Test+Kit

I know your not an organic guy and dont see no reason to be , but i am thinking it will help me determine ....uh...something. I think i got the organic shit figured out but i am still obsessed with trying to figure out exactly why the promix is not feeding correctly .................geez maybe i am way too obsessed 
i just have some that i would like to keep green with the foods i have layin around.
o'well disreguard all that shit , i was just wonderin if that test would tell me anything and if they work. 
Thanks man.

wb


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 16, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> Hey UB ,
> what do u think about them cheap soil test? NPK an ph , do you think they will work, and will it be easy to understand the results? this aint very detailed but its what im lookin at:
> http://www.jungseed.com/dp.asp?pID=51345&c=607&p=Professional+Soil+Test+Kit


You have no guarantee of the accuracy plus you're only getting NPK. Why not send off a sample to your extension service for a complete analysis?

I'm definately into organics. I just don't feed into the green hype about it somehow being superior to "synthetics". 

UB


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## mdestiny (Feb 17, 2010)

my leaves r turning bright yellow and aonther one praying pls help?


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## its me (Feb 17, 2010)

yes as i thought TOO much co2 in tent over 2000ppm all is better now co2 level is at 1000-1200ppm thanks for all the help


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## bigman4270 (Feb 17, 2010)

mdestiny said:


> my leaves r turning bright yellow and aonther one praying pls help?


Hey mdestiny, Welcome to the thread. With that said, your gonna have to give a better description of the problem than the one you posted. 

At a minimum you need to let the readers know what the parameters of your grow are before anyone can recommend a solution to your problem. Also some pics would help out tremendously.

How old are they?
What medium your using?
Are you feeding?
Etc,etc,etc.



Big


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## tokincarper (Feb 17, 2010)

hey UB, as a newbie to this site and a newbie to the problem i have would you be kind enough to take a look at my plants and give me your opinion, i have grown before using the same cuttings, soil and feed and had no problems but this was a few years ago. i have more time on my hands than when i last grew and believe i have overfed / watered them. 

i am using a budget 600 hps 
6 x white rhino from cuttings in 11ltr pots
plagron bat mix soil 
and plagron algae bloom 

having read and been very impressed by your posts your opinion / advice would be greatly appreciated 

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/303466-please-help-mutant-white-rhino.html


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## tokincarper (Feb 17, 2010)

hi there , could u take a look at this post regarding weird / mutant that i believe to be caused from overfeeding / watering and give me your opinion / advice on this please, many thanks https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/303466-please-help-mutant-white-rhino.html


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## metroplex (Feb 18, 2010)

good day uncle ben


thanks for your help last time....but i seem to have another problem and i'm not too sure how serious it is, but some of the leaves on my plant has these like yellow/white dots forming on the side of the leaves....perhaps you could check the pics on this thread i posted and give your thoughts on what it could be if you dont mind....

otherwise my plant seems to be ok and is floweing nicely.

below is the link

much appreciated

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/303953-another-problem-18-days-into.html


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## tokincarper (Feb 18, 2010)

hi UB , would you be so kind to look at my plants and give me opinion on them , any help / guidance greatly appreciated 

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/303466-please-help-mutant-white-rhino.html

many thanks


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## tokincarper (Feb 18, 2010)

Uncle Ben . . . . . . . . thanks for takin the time to look at my post / problem i will addressing this a.s.a.p, will i be able to bring them back from this ?? i feel quite stoopid now as indeed , i lost sight of the forest for the trees !! 

many thanks again tokincarper


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 18, 2010)

tokincarper said:


> Uncle Ben . . . . . . . . thanks for takin the time to look at my post / problem i will addressing this a.s.a.p, will i be able to bring them back from this ?? i feel quite stoopid now as indeed , i lost sight of the forest for the trees !!
> 
> many thanks again tokincarper


If damage has been done, then, it's been done. Concentrate on new output.


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## YungMoolaBaby (Feb 18, 2010)

I read your plant moisture stress thread and I have this problem that exactly fits your description. However, you said it could also be a sign of calcium deficiency. Here is a super skunk clone (from a dispensary) that I recently just transplanted into some mushroom compost with perlite. What do you think is the problem here?
I would really appreciate your input. And thank you so much in advance for you taking time to read and see my case.


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## wyteboi (Feb 19, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> You have no guarantee of the accuracy plus you're only getting NPK. Why not send off a sample to your extension service for a complete analysis?
> 
> I'm definately into organics. I just don't feed into the green hype about it somehow being superior to "synthetics".
> 
> UB


Thanks UB!
Can you tell me a place i can send it to, for a real analysis?


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 19, 2010)

YungMoolaBaby said:


> I read your plant moisture stress thread and I have this problem that exactly fits your description. However, you said it could also be a sign of calcium deficiency. Here is a super skunk clone (from a dispensary) that I recently just transplanted into some mushroom compost with perlite. What do you think is the problem here?


With such limited info, it's anybody's guess, reason why I wrote the ditty. 



wyteboi said:


> Thanks UB!
> Can you tell me a place i can send it to, for a real analysis?


If you think you can swing it, your extension service will do a leaf petiole analysis, for a fee. Good luck lol!


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## Paulorustobernardo (Feb 19, 2010)

what if the leaves are curling/cupping but arent being damaged? sometimes they curl and sometimes they go back to normal... no yellowing or darkening? also im gona finally cut tomorrow when i get to the sixth node! but ya the leaves arent getting damaged they are just curlying a bit on the very outside of the leaf... curling upwards... 

maybe is the fan on too hard? ive seen videos of peeps growing with it on much higher though... since hte leaves were rustling back and forth... mine arent... 

i might have over watered i dont know... im just gona let it dry out until it looks like it needs water again... 

or what do you recomend?


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 20, 2010)

Paulorustobernardo said:


> what if the leaves are curling/cupping but arent being damaged?


It's a symptom. If they are still green and large, then they are capable of conducting photosynthesis.


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## Paulorustobernardo (Feb 20, 2010)




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## hangshai (Feb 20, 2010)

Paulorustobernardo said:


>



Paulo, I dont think you can link an img file from your pc, you have to use a filehosting service like photobucket. Oh, and I think the edge curling you are experiencing could be an early sign of over watering. I know for me, one of my biggest problems is watering my plants too much, I always want to feed them thinking that will make them grow faster, but the soil needs time between watering to dry out a little. If it is constantly soaked it will be more of a problem than being helpful. SOrry, not trying to hijack.

Uncle ben, what do you think of fluorescent lights for cloning? I have 1 18inch t8 bulb over a 45 site cloner. I usually use HPS lights in my garden, so I am not use to using these fluorescent lights. Are the t5s that much better/brighter? I have a pic of my cloner setup here...

The reason I ask is I am thinking of upgrading my lights. I want to get 2 24inch t5 lights to replace the 18 inch t8 I have now. Oh, btw the bulb is a 6500K color temp bulb that I am using.


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 20, 2010)

hangshai said:


> Uncle ben, what do you think of fluorescent lights for cloning? I have 1 18inch t8 bulb over a 45 site cloner. I usually use HPS lights in my garden, so I am not use to using these fluorescent lights. Are the t5s that much better/brighter? I have a pic of my cloner setup here...
> 
> The reason I ask is I am thinking of upgrading my lights. I want to get 2 24inch t5 lights to replace the 18 inch t8 I have now. Oh, btw the bulb is a 6500K color temp bulb that I am using.


As long as you have plenty of light for photosynthesis, I don't see why that would be a problem.


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## businessmen (Feb 24, 2010)

Uncle Ben, could you PLEASE take a look at this thread. I cant figure out why I keep killing my plants lately. Thanks alot, and I know your not an organics fan, but I figure, why not if you can. And normally I can.

https://www.rollitup.org/organics/299899-ayone-had-problems-indonesian-bat-4.html#post3830822


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 25, 2010)

businessmen said:


> Uncle Ben, could you PLEASE take a look at this thread. I cant figure out why I keep killing my plants lately. Thanks alot, and I know your not an organics fan, but I figure, why not if you can. And normally I can.


I'll have a look. Just to clarify my position, if anyone is into organics, it's me. I'm just not into the hype of the green movement.

https://www.rollitup.org/organics/299899-ayone-had-problems-indonesian-bat-4.html#post3830822[/QUOTE]


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## wyteboi (Feb 25, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> I'll have a look. Just to clarify my position, if anyone is into organics, it's me. I'm just not into the hype of the green movement.
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/organics/299899-ayone-had-problems-indonesian-bat-4.html#post3830822


[/QUOTE]

Yea i wasnt sure you fucked with organics , but i guess the only way to stress your point , is to stress the ratio's and what the plant sees/wants , no matter wether it be organic or inorganic. 
Im not too far into the green thing. I have always liked organics , its what i started with , so i'll stick to it. 
I almost cried when dumping MG in my soil, but my babies through out a sigh of relief.

I have decided never to use anything from the hydro store again. (sure there is plenty of good shit in there) The marketing and the hype is sickning. The store owners (most) are no better then big mike. everytime they get a new product ..... its the same thing.... "All of our customers say its very good and they could not go without it" now they even stoop as far as going on utube and saying "our product is not the best..... this other 500 dollar one is ..... our scientist......bla bla.. PUKE. How in the fuck did politics get into weed .........oh its always been like that. 
Sorry for pouring a river in your thread ub. 
it happens to all of us sometimes. 

keep um greem


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 25, 2010)

> Yea i wasnt sure you fucked with organics , but i guess the only way to stress your point , is to stress the ratio's and what the plant sees/wants , no matter wether it be organic or inorganic.
> Im not too far into the green thing. I have always liked organics , its what i started with , so i'll stick to it.
> I almost cried when dumping MG in my soil, but my babies through out a sigh of relief.
> 
> ...


I hear ya. It's all about the money.


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## badness (Feb 26, 2010)

are you the same uncle ben that's in marijuana horticulture book by jorge cervantes?


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## Katatawnic (Feb 26, 2010)

Yes, he is.


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 27, 2010)

badness said:


> are you the same uncle ben that's in marijuana horticulture book by jorge cervantes?


Yep.

In general, a great book with alot of excellent color photos. The chapter on lighting is worth the price alone but Jorge doesn't always get it right. There are some inaccuracies like the ditty he put in on my experiment with Griffin's Spin-Out.

UB


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## potpimp (Feb 28, 2010)

Whatever you're dishing out, I'm taking. You are the Mastah.


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## monty Python (Mar 1, 2010)

Hi uncle ben mate. Can i just say what a fantastic thread u got here. & i think its great you helping everyone out like this. Kudos mate.

Hopefully you can help me out too

I plan to read through it all, but i kinda skipped ahead a little as i wanna try help my plant asap.

First time grower here in need of a little advice. I can see your well clued up mate so was hoping you could maybe give a good diagnosis of the prob my lemon skunk is havin atm, would be much apprieciated. Iv had mixed opinions so far on it. 

my link mate...

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/307239-what-my-seedling-saying-me.html

thanks.


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## i81two (Mar 1, 2010)

Hey UB,

Im about 2 weeks into flower and all is really green and growing good, but i am getting some leave curling the long way like a canoe and even a little tip curl.

Not on all of the plants though. The funny thing is it is affecting the big fan leaves of the small sativa's and the small newer leaves of the indaca (witch used to be a mom).

At this point i only have 1000w on a 4x8 tray.

I keep my temp 60-75 and RH 40%

I water with a drip every 1-2 hours for 15 min.

My ph is 5.9+- .2
ppm is 1250
I attached some pics of a smaller leave . I didnt want to remove one of the larger ones because the plants seem 
really green and healthy except for this issue.

Please Help


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 1, 2010)

i81two said:


> Hey UB,
> 
> Im about 2 weeks into flower and all is really green and growing good, but i am getting some leave curling the long way like a canoe and even a little tip curl.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't worry so much about the leaf curl, but lack of leaf mass. What NPK foods are they getting? 1,250 ppm may be too high for their requirements.


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## i81two (Mar 1, 2010)

When u say leaf mass, do you mean the amount of leaves or the size of them?
My partner talked me into a semi lolipop on them. But we didnt cut any fan leaves just the lower bud branches.
I will take some better pictures after the light goes off.
These plants went to flower very small.

I am using GH Flora Nova
grow 2-1-6 (just a little for the first couple weaks)
micro 5-0-1
bloom 0-5-4
Vegan blendblend .5-1-1
kool bloom boost 0-10-10 (very small amount so far)

I am using these nutes at roughly 1/2 strength of what GH reccomends or the ppm is thru the roof.

So you can over nute without getting the burn?

After i talked to u I a few weeks back i started a thread with a lot of detail about my setup and i think this issue.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 2, 2010)

i81two said:


> When u say leaf mass, do you mean the amount of leaves or the size of them?


Yes



> My partner talked me into a semi lolipop on them. But we didnt cut any fan leaves just the lower bud branches.


You just reduced plant health and production.



> I am using GH Flora Nova
> grow 2-1-6 (just a little for the first couple weaks)
> micro 5-0-1
> bloom 0-5-4
> ...


Not enough N.


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## i81two (Mar 2, 2010)

I argued the lolipop to no avail. Our last crop had a lot of small buds all over. i thought that was good. He says just a couple big ones. We will see.

So should i add more micro(5-0-1) instead of grow(2-1-6)


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## businessmen (Mar 2, 2010)

Those look like some long internode spaces, how far is your lamp from the plants?


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## i81two (Mar 2, 2010)

3-4 feet on the short ones but only 16" on the two moms.

The sativas are stretching pretty good but the indacas stay real short.

I get advice on both sides of the coin when it comes to the height of my light. But i will listen to more.


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## hangshai (Mar 2, 2010)

Hey, Uncle ben, Ive got another question for you. I am planning on making a box for mother plants. I plan on having it roughly 2 foot deep, 3 foot wide, and maybe 3 foot tall. I plan on building it out of 2x4s and plywood, just like a shoebox. Anyway, the goal is to have a box I can seal, with two to four 2' t5 lights, and about 8 plants in 1 gallon pots. Ive built a similar box for clones, so this is just something on a bigger scale. Do you think it sounds feasible, or is there an easier way to go about what I am doing?

I want to keep mothers, but I dont have much room for a totally different setup for them. This would be a low cost way to keep mother plants alive until I needed them for cuttings. I have added a picture of one of my boxes so you can sort of get the idea. This is a box I made for clones, so, something sort of like this, but bigger...

Or, on the other hand, if you can maybe suggest a better.alternative way I could keep about 8 plants in 1 gallon pots going. Id like to have it be sort of portable and enclosed, so if I were to place it in or near my garden it wont have any light pollution if I were to be in flower, etc. Im sure you get the idea, sorry, I have a tendency to over explain things when Im high...  Anyway, thanks a lot for all your help, I really appreciate having someone to get some feedback from.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 2, 2010)

i81two said:


> I argued the lolipop to no avail. Our last crop had a lot of small buds all over. i thought that was good. He says just a couple big ones. We will see.
> 
> So should i add more micro(5-0-1) instead of grow(2-1-6)


Do this with more N, more foliage........


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 2, 2010)

hangshai said:


> Hey, Uncle ben, Ive got another question for you. I am planning on making a box for mother plants. I plan on having it roughly 2 foot deep, 3 foot wide, and maybe 3 foot tall.


Since garden footprints aren't fixed, I won't do cabinets. If you're driven by a security issue....good luck.


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## businessmen (Mar 2, 2010)

Im a keep your light as close as you can kinda guy, whats the wattage?


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## i81two (Mar 3, 2010)

i have 1000w spaced every 2'. They get pretty hot. Its winter right now but come summer i am going to run ac thru them.


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## businessmen (Mar 3, 2010)

I guess thats pretty good with all that light huh?! Are they into flower yet? Or is that your veg room with moms? I wouldnt pull of any branches til theyre in the first weeks of flower. You want those branches for energy for the plant to grow as you know. Then when theyre dense as hell and the bottom branches are in shadows I pull some off, cus I crowd as many as freakin possible. That looks real sparce, your pruning for a SOG, I'd put 10 times as many plants in.


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## i81two (Mar 3, 2010)

2 weeks into flower.

Yes it is sparce but that was all i had ready to go and i didnt want to wait any longer, if you know what i mean. I had a fungus gnat prob that kicked the shit out of my clones. It set me back. But that is taken care of and im getting the troops together. I wish i could put 10x that in but im trying to stay legal. The Papaya grew like a climer all over the place so thats where the LP idea came from. Last crop we let them grow wild with a little pruning. Lots of golg ball sized buds with 1 nice cola. This time we figured we give a semi-lolipop a try and see how it works.


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## i81two (Mar 3, 2010)

UB, To bump up the N i used Old Age 1/2 strength 12-6-6. 

What do you think ?


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## DocBud (Mar 3, 2010)

Hey UB.

I'm getting ready to do a grow using Time released fertilizer, like Nutricote or Osmocote. I mostly grow in straight perlite, but can certainly mix up some soil if need be....I just like the cleanliness of perlite.

What's your take on Time released ferts, specifically this one?

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS 18-5-13
TOTAL NITROGEN (N) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18.00%
2.30% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
2.30% Urea Nitrogen
5.30% Other Water Soluble Nitrogen**
8.10% Water Insoluble Nitrogen
AVAILABLE PHOSPHATE (P2O5) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5.00%
SOLUBLE POTASH (K2O) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13.00%
MAGNESIUM (Mg) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.20%
1.20% Water Soluble Magnesium
SULFUR (S) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6.50%
6.50% Combined Sulfur
BORON (B) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.02%
COPPER (Cu) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.05%
0.05% Water Soluble Copper
IRON (Fe) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.20%
0.20% Water Soluble Iron
0.10% Chelated Iron
MANGANESE (Mn) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.08%
0.08% Water Soluble Manganese
MOLYBDENUM (Mo) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.02%
Derived from: Methylene urea, ammonium sulfate, ammonium
phosphate, potassium sulfate, magnesium sulfate, ferrous sulfate,
iron EDTA, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, boric acid and
sodium molybdate.
** 4.2% slowly available water soluble nitrogen from methylene
diurea and dimethylenetriurea.


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## riddleme (Mar 3, 2010)

DocBud said:


> Hey UB.
> 
> I'm getting ready to do a grow using Time released fertilizer, like Nutricote or Osmocote. I mostly grow in straight perlite, but can certainly mix up some soil if need be....I just like the cleanliness of perlite.
> 
> *What's your take on Time released ferts*, .


Time released = loss of control


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 3, 2010)

i81two said:


> UB, To bump up the N i used Old Age 1/2 strength 12-6-6.
> 
> What do you think ?


Should be fine.



DocBud said:


> Hey UB.
> 
> I'm getting ready to do a grow using Time released fertilizer, like Nutricote or Osmocote. I mostly grow in straight perlite, but can certainly mix up some soil if need be....I just like the cleanliness of perlite.
> 
> ...



Encapsulated foods such as that are great and produce really nice results. That's a great formula. I use a similar product by Harrell's, a 18-4-9 with micros. 50 lbs., $47.00 Add that with some compost enriched soil and you have a winner, if all else is in balance.

Plants do best with a slow and constant release of salts.


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## DocBud (Mar 3, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Should be fine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Do you top dress your containers, or mix it in with the soil?

Also, I usually grow in perlite. Would you plese comment on using a product like this in perlite.

Thanks UB!


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## i81two (Mar 4, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Should be fine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks UB.
How long do you think before i see results.
This is driving me crazy. I feel like im giving a great envirnment. Everything is nice and geen and growing/budding but still the curling. Its not on all the leaves but enough.
Should i worry?
I will take some better pics tonight after lights go off.


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## hangshai (Mar 4, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Since garden footprints aren't fixed, I won't do cabinets. If you're driven by a security issue....good luck.



No its not security. I have a two car garage that is sectioned off, one side is my garden. I have tarps around the garden section (three layers thick) and I think I can I can set up a minimal veg garden on the other side with some low wattage stuff (fluorescent and the like). I am planning on moving, but I am going to probably keep the same setup I have now, with my one garden, and if I have enough space in the next place, I will set up a mother/veg garden. So, mainly its about portability, and also not letting the light pollute the other garden when it is in flower, and the mommas are still under 18/6. Does that give you a little more you can hopefully work with?

edit - I have seen those pre-fab mother cabinets that are totally self-contained and enclosed. Im thinking something like that, but maybe that I can build myslef instead of spending hundreds of dollars on it.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 4, 2010)

DocBud said:


> Do you top dress your containers, or mix it in with the soil?
> 
> Also, I usually grow in perlite. Would you plese comment on using a product like this in perlite.
> 
> Thanks UB!


Top dress. You'll have to use something like Dyna-Gro for perlite.



hangshai said:


> No its not security.
> 
> edit - I have seen those pre-fab mother cabinets that are totally self-contained and enclosed. Im thinking something like that, but maybe that I can build myslef instead of spending hundreds of dollars on it.



I just don't like the restrictions of a cabinet. If you can't move the side walls to adjust to the changing footprint, then you're in for logistical problems.

UB


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## i81two (Mar 5, 2010)

i81two said:


> Thanks UB.
> How long do you think before i see results.
> This is driving me crazy. I feel like im giving a great envirnment. Everything is nice and geen and growing/budding but still the curling. Its not on all the leaves but enough.
> Should i worry?
> I will take some better pics tonight after lights go off.


 
I hope u can see what im talking about in these pics.


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## i81two (Mar 5, 2010)

Why the fuck is this swat assault shit in the way


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 5, 2010)

i81two said:


> I hope u can see what im talking about in these pics.


The foliage looks healthy, just a little sparse.


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## i81two (Mar 5, 2010)

The sparcity of them can cause the curling ?

So as the buds develope more foliage will be produced wich will help ?


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 5, 2010)

i81two said:


> The sparcity of them can cause the curling ?
> 
> So as the buds develope more foliage will be produced wich will help ?


No and no.....


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## i81two (Mar 5, 2010)

I appreciate your patience with me. Ill get this figured out.


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## MJ Crescendo (Mar 7, 2010)

Hello UB,

I am glad I found this thread and hope that you can help a brotha out. I recently have fall into some problems in the last 48 hours and it's scaring me...

She was having yellowing of the lower leaves so I basically flushed the soil 2 weeks ago, added some dolomite lime and started giving her nutes again with some light foilar feeding. It was BMO grow it green (5-2-5) and I was dosing about 1/3-1/2 ounce to 3 cups of water. She seemed to be recovering from the N deficiency until yesterday. I think I was getting a little too happy with foilar feeding and possibly had 1/2 ounce nute's on the last watering. She looks like this now. All I know is I see tons of problems with my plant (heat stress, nute burn, deficiencies, etc) I need to get this under control asap and know that your wisdom can help. I'm growing in FF Ocean forest soil with BMO nutes under a 150w HPS.

Hmm about 2 days ago the soil got really dry and she wilted a little bit, but I fixed it soon as I checked on her. Possibly the wilting to over nute is my problem? My mistakes have led me here and I need to find the road to healthiness.

Thanks for the help and hope to hear from you soon 


Edit: I just flushed it with 6 cups of purified water and lowered her 2 inches. Hopefully this was the right action to begin with, but at least I know that the medium is clear of excess salts now and that heat stress has been lowered (peace of mind)


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 7, 2010)

MJ Crescendo said:


> Hello UB,
> 
> I am glad I found this thread and hope that you can help a brotha out. I recently have fall into some problems in the last 48 hours and it's scaring me...


1. It's time to summon a priest:







2. Don't attempt to grow again until you understand what makes a plant tick.

Better luck next time,
UB


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## MJ Crescendo (Mar 7, 2010)

Ahh well I don't think the miracle is going to just happen and I'm going to keep this one going. She was looking very healthy 48 hours ago and this is my 3rd time growing organiclly in soil. So I may have a lack of experience compared to you, but I'm self sufficient on what makes a plant tick. I tried to include what I've been doing in my last post to get an idea of what's happening, but I guess your wisdom is of no use to me... I guess thanks for nothing.


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## riddleme (Mar 7, 2010)

MJ Crescendo said:


> Ahh well I don't think the miracle is going to just happen and I'm going to keep this one going. She was looking very healthy 48 hours ago and this is my 3rd time growing organiclly in soil. So I may have a lack of experience compared to you, but I'm self sufficient on what makes a plant tick. I tried to include what I've been doing in my last post to get an idea of what's happening, but I guess your wisdom is of no use to me... I guess thanks for nothing. I'm changing forums soon I think, every fucking question I ask I get the dumbest fucking answers. *Why is it so hard to relate your knowledge to my grow and give me a hint of what direction I should be going.* Whatever dude


He did exactly that, the plant is gonna be a bitch to save and an experienced grower knows when to fold and start another grow, learning from the mistakes and not repeating them.

I was gonna say the same thing he did but decided to wait as it's UB's thread

Good Luck


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## stillnrmr (Mar 7, 2010)

hey thanks alot! it really helped out. im a first time grower and i was having the same issues. i started to think it was some type of a virus on the leaves. thanks again. 

stillnrmr


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## Katatawnic (Mar 7, 2010)

MJ Crescendo said:


> Ahh well I don't think the miracle is going to just happen and I'm going to keep this one going. She was looking very healthy 48 hours ago and this is my 3rd time growing organiclly in soil. So I may have a lack of experience compared to you, but I'm self sufficient on what makes a plant tick. I tried to include what I've been doing in my last post to get an idea of what's happening, but I guess your wisdom is of no use to me... I guess thanks for nothing. I'm changing forums soon I think, every fucking question I ask I get the dumbest fucking answers. Why is it so hard to relate your knowledge to my grow and give me a hint of what direction I should be going. Whatever dude


Well, since I'm not Catholic (nor religious at all), I wouldn't have suggested a priest. I'd simply have said it's time to give it the respect it needs with a proper burial. Or cremation, if that's more to your liking.

The knowledge of experienced gardeners has been spread all over this forum, including in this very thread. Over and over and...

I'll never understand people feeling the need to announce that they're considering moving to another forum. If you're going to leave, then just do so gracefully and save a little dignity. If you want useful help and advice, then read what's been shared on this forum, be thankful that there are many who are willing and patient enough to keep repeating the same helpful advice ad nauseum, and quit bitching that you're not given miracle cures instead of gardening tips that should have been applied at the first sign of slight trouble rather than after a full-blown catastrophe. 

Don't bother giving me a snotty response, either. I, too, wasn't going to say a word, but to come back with "fuck this and fuck that" certainly isn't going to encourage anyone to come running to help you now, is it? Just accept that you screwed up (everyone does at least once), and do some serious research before you start your next seed.


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## DaveCoulier (Mar 7, 2010)

MJ Crescendo said:


> Ahh well I don't think the miracle is going to just happen and I'm going to keep this one going. She was looking very healthy 48 hours ago and this is my 3rd time growing organiclly in soil. So I may have a lack of experience compared to you, but I'm self sufficient on what makes a plant tick. I tried to include what I've been doing in my last post to get an idea of what's happening, but I guess your wisdom is of no use to me... I guess thanks for nothing. I'm changing forums soon I think, every fucking question I ask I get the dumbest fucking answers. Why is it so hard to relate your knowledge to my grow and give me a hint of what direction I should be going. Whatever dude


Its hard to give nice advice to someone who clearly doesn't know how to grow a plant. Im guessing your first two grows were both failures, which this grow is the same thing judging by the pictures.

Are you growing that plant under one incandescent bulb or something? She is incredibly stunted.

Re-read the faqs, or read them if you never have. Buy the necessary equipment to grow healthy plants, and you wont have to worry about people busting your balls. I promise you, that you'll get even worse treatment if you posted those pictures elsewhere.


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## jjfoo (Mar 7, 2010)

MJ Crescendo said:


> but I'm self sufficient on what makes a plant tick. I tried to include what I've been doing in my last post to get an idea of what's happening, but I guess your wisdom is of no use to me... I guess thanks for nothing. I'm changing forums soon I think, every fucking question I ask I get the dumbest fucking answers.


We can only go on what you have done and shown us. It doesn't look like you are, as you put it, self sufficient on making a plant tick. (your pics as a reference)

Maybe you should re-read the post. He gave you great advise. Throw the plant out. Start a new one. 

Have you seen fight club? You are like the guys who are told to leave because they are too young, too old, too fat, etc and they just leave... The other set of guys where told the same thing but stood in the front yard waiting to come in for days. then they got in...

You may be making the biggest mistake of your growing career here. 

Read this post twice for better comprehension. Seriously, even good readers can benefit from re-reading, so this isn't a put down.

About the other advise to learn to grow...
Get a book on container gardening and grow a tomatoe plant that is really robust looking. Once you have done this, you will see things different and hopefully realize that the advise here will leading to predictable outcomes. There is a science to this and if you can understand that then develop your senses to read your plants (this is partly an art), you will be a great grower. There is no rush to do this, but don't bitch at people who are pointing you in the right direction it just looks stupid.


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## MJ Crescendo (Mar 7, 2010)

I'm wrong, your right. Ok

Time to get high and not think about it.

Have a good one folks

Here's a pic from my last grow, a success? But that wouldn't be possible because my lack of knowledge, right...


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## jjfoo (Mar 7, 2010)

MJ Crescendo said:


> I'm wrong, your right. Ok
> 
> Time to get high and not think about it.
> 
> ...


I do things differently. I suggest trying out something a bit different (you know the old saying doing the same thing and expecting diff results is crazy...)

Try getting high and *thinking* about it

do you have a pic of your grow before you harvested? A bowl of buds is good but I'd like to see the actual plant. How many watts did you use in how many square feet and what was the total dry weight of the harvest? 

I'm sure you are doing some things right, but like most of us maybe you have some room to improve. But, if you are not into having people point out errors you may be in the wrong thread...


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## MJ Crescendo (Mar 8, 2010)

Right on dude (JJfoo), we all make mistakes and no one can grow perfectly. It's a skill to get everything right on. This is more of a hobby to me then a lifestyle like many I see on the forums. That is why I always keep it small and discrete. 

Btw, my plant has improved since I last posted. The pic I posted was right after a 48 hour period of me being gone and her health dropped QUICK. I took the right steps to correct, but as usual, you guys are full of no advice. I mean you may as well keep your comments to, "figure it our yourself," because that is what I am always told. I know sometimes you guys get tired of repeating stuff to the noobs, but come on now I wasn't asking a retarded question like, "whats a plant..." I post in like 3 different areas of these forums and it's interesting to see where people actually chime in with USEFUL INFO to a fellow grower. I'm persistent and I know when to throw in the towel...

I keep it pretty simple, organic ff ocean forest, blue mountain organics nutes, 150w hps, some cfl/fluros. Project is in a small closet with a fan on the girl and another ionizer fan ventilating the closet. I usually keep get them around 2 feet so I'm in 1-2 gallon pots (i'm about to transplant this one into a 3 gallon bucket when I get a chance) I experiment with nute doses and foilar feeding and sometimes I do make mistakes. It's not exactly the easiest to figure out how much nutes your plant needs. That is really where I would appreciate the advice. 

By the way, I may sometime come off as an asshole, but no disrespect to any of you. We are all here for the same reason 

I'll drop a few pics of my last grow, white berry. If you haven't heard of that strain then check it out, stuffs reallll good and works super well in SOG setups. 

I'm not giving up on my Moby Dick for at least another 2 weeks. So instead of telling me I suck at growing and I should quit and research more (i've done over 30 hours of research, I DO READ) help me get this girly back to healthy standards. I am currently in flushed soil and corrected the heat/ventilation issue. Back to that fun game of nute doses and making sure she doesn't acquire any deficiencies. This is the hardest part for me. 

~Peace~


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 8, 2010)

You asked for help, here's the skinny although I don't have alot of patience when it comes to teaching basic plant care:



MJ Crescendo said:


> She was having yellowing of the lower leaves so I basically flushed the soil 2 weeks ago,....


Why? If you have premature leaf drop there is a good cultural reason for it which I covered in my ditty. What's your definition of flushing?



> ... added some dolomite lime


And how's the dolomite lime supposed to help? 



> and started giving her nutes again with some light foilar feeding.


So you reached an elemental saturation point with both foliar feeding and root feeding and then added dolomite lime to boot? Sounds like you're trying to push your plant, which has pushed it to the edge of its grave.



> It was BMO grow it green (5-2-5) and I was dosing about 1/3-1/2 ounce to 3 cups of water.


1/2 ounce aka 1 TBLSP. per 24 oz. of water is enough to fry a fish. That amount will be fine for 256 oz of water. I doubt if you have any small roots or roothairs left. That plant is toast, it will be stunted forever. Accept it and move on.



> She seemed to be recovering from the N deficiency until yesterday.


Ya think?



> I think I was getting a little too happy with foilar feeding and possibly had 1/2 ounce nute's on the last watering.


Bingo, Father DoItRight has received your confessional with his blessing.



> Hmm about 2 days ago the soil got really dry and she wilted a little bit, but I fixed it soon as I checked on her.


How's that? By using a little water, not enough to get good run-off? Why did you let the soil dry out? Do you water until you get a good runoff? This is basic stuff.



> Possibly the wilting to over nute is my problem? My mistakes have led me here and I need to find the road to healthiness.


May I suggest a book on general plant culture? Or, if you must, buy Mel Franks MJ Insiders Grower Guide, it covers the basic principles that apply to ALL plant material very well. It will be your shortcut to success.

Now, you have 3 choices:

1. Shit can that plant and don't attempt to grow again until you've removed yourself from cannabis forums and read some good books on general horticulture, or, 

2. If you really want to save that pathetic thing, repot into fresh soil gently (inspecting the health of the root system) and bury the plant up to its first leafsets to induce rooting along the "trunk". Add some Osmocote, nothing else, (sorry, I don't trust you, yet) and let nature take its course. Downside the size of the pot. You must size the pot with the transpiration dynamics of the plant which is controlled primarily by the leaf area and quality of the root system. It does not *require* a 3 gallon pot now. My avatar does, yours doesn't. The quickest way to screw up a plant is to give it something it doesn't need/want/require.

3. See the latter part of #1.

Good luck,
UB


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## i81two (Mar 8, 2010)

Bingo, Father DoItRight has received your confessional with his blessing.


Thats some funny shit.

But on another note... are you saying that u shouldnt have a small plant in a big pot?


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 8, 2010)

i81two said:


> But on another note... are you saying that u shouldnt have a small plant in a big pot?


It invites root rot due to a very slow wicking off of excess soil moisture. Small plants need small pots.


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## i81two (Mar 8, 2010)

So does it matter when i plant outdoors (my 1st time) ?

I have heard ppl talk about pots that the roots can grow thru. Would you suggest something like that. Or should i veg them big in my hydro then put the in some big holes with good soil ?


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 9, 2010)

i81two said:


> So does it matter when i plant outdoors (my 1st time) ?
> 
> I have heard ppl talk about pots that the roots can grow thru. Would you suggest something like that. Or should i veg them big in my hydro then put the in some big holes with good soil ?


Are you going to native soil outside, and if so what is its structure like and pH?


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## sickstoner (Mar 9, 2010)

one love one heart


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## i81two (Mar 9, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Are you going to native soil outside, and if so what is its structure like and pH?


From what Ive read... I should dig a big hole and mix the native soil with... well there is alot of different opinion on that part. I am trying to figure out what it is that i should mix in. Any suggestions ? I will be growing Durban Poison.

It is the front range of Colorado, so its pretty hot and dry and windy at times.

I will find out the ph of the soil. We will plant near an irrigation ditch where there are clusters of trees to help shade. The property is big and very private. So we can do pretty much what we want.


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## oakgrowth1 (Mar 9, 2010)

1. Over-fertilizing - the most common cause of leaf cupping aka leaf margin rolling, leaf margin burn, and leaf tip curl/burn is the overzealous use of too much plant food in relationship to factors such as plant size, vigor and rate of growth. The first unit of a plant to show moisture stress is the leaf at its margins and/or tips, reflected by margin rolling (cupping) or burning. Sometimes copper colored necrotic spots show in the leaf also. A hard, crispy feel to the leaf frequently occurs as well, as opposed to a soft and cool feel of a happy leaf. When you have a high concentration of salts in solution (or in the root medium) compared to lower salinity levels found in the plants tissue, water is actually drawn out of the plant across the root gradient in order to fix the ppm imbalance. IOW, this is a natural, osmotic response that serves to equalize salinity levels on both sides of the roots epidermal gradient. Back off on the amount and/or frequency of plant food. Too much plant food can also burn the roots, especially the sensitive root tips and hairs, which then creates another set of problems such as nutrient deficiencies. A note for the bio folks - as soil dries, the concentration of the remaining salts rises further exacerbating the problem. Leach (flush) your pots once in a while to get rid of excess salts.
DID NOT REALIZE MY MIRACLE GROW PERLITE & PEAT MOSS WAS ENRICHED WITH MIRACLE GROW CRAP. I AM SEEING THE COPPER COLORED NECROTIC SPOTS ON MY FAN LEAVES. & I USED FISH FERTALIZER (1TABLESPOON PER GALLON) TO WATER TWICE PLUS WORM CASTING TEA. THIS MAKES SENSE. I AM USING DISTILLED WATER FOR THE TIME BEING AND WILL "FLUSH" WITH IT NEXT WATERING. THANK YOU


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 10, 2010)

i81two said:


> From what Ive read... I should dig a big hole and mix the native soil with... well there is alot of different opinion on that part. I am trying to figure out what it is that i should mix in. Any suggestions ?


If it's well drained mix some compost in. Being that soil profiles/structure can be a million different types, it pays to know what you have. You could always upcan to a 3 gallon pot from a 1 gallon pot, dig a 3" hole in the ground, drop the pot in and the roots will grow thru the drainholes into the native soil, plus get the moisture and salts you added to the pot.



oakgrowth1 said:


> DID NOT REALIZE MY MIRACLE GROW PERLITE & PEAT MOSS WAS ENRICHED WITH MIRACLE GROW CRAP. I AM SEEING THE COPPER COLORED NECROTIC SPOTS ON MY FAN LEAVES. & I USED FISH FERTALIZER (1TABLESPOON PER GALLON) TO WATER TWICE PLUS WORM CASTING TEA. THIS MAKES SENSE. I AM USING DISTILLED WATER FOR THE TIME BEING AND WILL "FLUSH" WITH IT NEXT WATERING. THANK YOU


Amount and frequency of app depends on plant needs, rate of growth.


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## i81two (Mar 10, 2010)

Thanks for the advice.


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## procrastinator (Mar 11, 2010)

First of all ..Big Ups to Uncle Ben! Ive been browsing this thread and was pleased to see that someone takes the time to help out the less informed.
I have done alot of reading about cultivation and just recently kicked myself in the ass to start.
Your moisture stress chart is very helpful but i didnt see anything about ph levels and how they can also affect the growth and look of the plant. I still havent figured out why my ph levels rise so rapidly in my res. so i am forced to hand feed with solutions mixed in 1 gal. containers.
Im growing in rockwool and hydroton grow rocks. Presoaked the rockwool to desired ph level before use.
tested the run off after a fresh batch of water and still high.
Causes anyone?
....I also have owned the book written by Mel Frank for 10 yrs now and have read it cover to cover many times.


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## riddleme (Mar 12, 2010)

Hey Uncle Ben

You may already know about this but in case you didn't,, thought I would post it here as I found it in one of my searches

your original posting (says 2002) of this same thread on overgrow has been re-posted, actually the entire grow faq from overgrow has been replicated at another forum, check the upper left corner

http://www.stonerforums.com/lounge/growfaq/1331.html

thought you might enjoy a blast from the past


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## i81two (Mar 12, 2010)

There is UB smack all over the web.


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## friscobeauty (Mar 13, 2010)

unsure if this will even get a reply but can someone look at these pics? https://www.rollitup.org/members/friscobeauty-albums-purple-kush-grow-picture114229-overfertilized.jpeg 
i'm doing a coco/hydroton grow with Purple Kush clones, and I have a feeling they're over fert and overwatered, so what i did was i flushed them with 6.0 pH water at 10-50ppm for a couple days until the runoff water read 650ppm and 6.0pH.... anyone know specifics about pH, PPM, etc that PK likes/thrives at? 
5x6x12 room, 75F day, 60F night, 40% humidity, using sensi grow @650 ppm (lowered from about 1300) 2x per day watering by hand; also using calmag, liquid karma, and protekt at each water. 18/6 light cycle they are currently 13 days old (bought clones at 3 weeks) any other info needed let me know...


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 13, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Hey Uncle Ben
> 
> You may already know about this but in case you didn't,, thought I would post it here as I found it in one of my searches
> 
> ...


Thanks. Yep, it's from the OG FAQ.


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## DocBud (Mar 14, 2010)

friscobeauty said:


> unsure if this will even get a reply but can someone look at these pics? https://www.rollitup.org/members/friscobeauty-albums-purple-kush-grow-picture114229-overfertilized.jpeg
> i'm doing a coco/hydroton grow .........................................................................2x per day watering by hand; ..


If you said you watered every two days, I'd have said you burned it with salts.

But, watering twice a day....it's drowning. Let it dry out for a few days, then lift the pot up a few times to get to know how much it weighs dry. Water it.......then don't water again until the pot is light, like when it was dry.


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## zamil (Mar 14, 2010)

canadiancracker said:


> can you help check these out
> 
> thanks in advance,
> 
> ...



The first plant in the one pot looks like it could use a bit more watering. Maybe step it up by 12-24 hours from the cycle you have it one now. The other ones look like you have over watered them-from the color. 

The first plant will be fine, great in fact. The others can make it too, because they look like very strongly rooted plants. Step back the watering by 12-24 hours from the cycle they are on now. 

That's what my newbie eyes tell me. Remember this is newbie advice.... besides, this is advice far after the fact that these plants have grown, I think


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## friscobeauty (Mar 14, 2010)

i really appreciate the replies... i've cut down watering, and the plants look better. i think it was the problem, as some green algae started to grow on the rockwool cubes originally used for rooting the clones. i just planted them in with the coco. theres 40 of them, so picking each one up to test the moisture would be a bitch, so i'm thinking of getting a drip system..... I read somewhere that 6 times each day, 2 minutes each time, is a good watering schedule.... i'm bumping up the nutes to 800 this last veg week then going into flower. hopefully they will be bounced back and eager to grow once i get there! Should i keep raising the nutes a little at a time in PPM even when i switch to flowering nutes or should i go back down to like 600 and then go up from there??.... for now, would testing the feel of the top of the coco and rockwool by hand be ok to check for moisture? i've noticed they stay very damp, especially because they were planted in coco that was packed down too much. will this affect root growth to the point where it affects yield? that's all for now... i can't remember any other questions i have but i'm sure i'll have more its just my second grow so i have way more to figure out!


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 15, 2010)

friscobeauty said:


> i really appreciate the replies... i've cut down watering, and the plants look better. i think it was the problem, as some green algae started to grow on the rockwool cubes originally used for rooting the clones. i just planted them in with the coco. theres 40 of them, so picking each one up to test the moisture would be a bitch, so i'm thinking of getting a drip system..... _*I read somewhere that 6 times each day, 2 minutes each time, is a good watering schedule....*_ i'm bumping up the nutes to 800 this last veg week then going into flower. hopefully they will be bounced back and eager to grow once i get there! Should i keep raising the nutes a little at a time in PPM even when i switch to flowering nutes or should i go back down to like 600 and then go up from there??.... for now, would testing the feel of the top of the coco and rockwool by hand be ok to check for moisture? i've noticed they stay very damp, especially because they were planted in coco that was packed down too much. will this affect root growth to the point where it affects yield? that's all for now... i can't remember any other questions i have but i'm sure i'll have more its just my second grow so i have way more to figure out!


You're doomed. If you need someone to advise you when to water and how much to feed, you'll fail. This is YOUR garden, your plants will tell you if they need food and when to water them, learn to read your plants and take someone's advise with a grain of salt - it isn't their garden and they are not there to watch your day to day activities.

Gotta ask, why do you want to complicate things by going with rockwool, drip, etc.? Unless drip is done right, your plants will be subjected to uneven watering and other issues. Soil is much more forgiving. What is the NPK and micro values of your foods?

BTW, welcome to RIU. 

UB


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## Abysmal Darkenin (Mar 17, 2010)




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## Abysmal Darkenin (Mar 17, 2010)

plz help i am desperate whats wront with these plant 3 plant 3 different problems . lucky me .


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## datboybeezy281 (Mar 18, 2010)

aye man take a look at my pictures tell me what u think.. the link is my signature thing below


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## mcalegolas&bonq420 (Mar 18, 2010)

+rep this thread is awsome


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## Kriegs (Mar 18, 2010)

Abysmal Darkenin said:


> plz help i am desperate whats wront with these plant 3 plant 3 different problems . lucky me .


Nope.. all the same problem, expressed slightly differently or at different stages of progression.

Too much P and K at a growth phase where N is in the greatest demand. One thing for certain-sure - it isn't moisture stress one way or another. That curl in the top leaves is classic phosphorous overfeed, or overfeeding in general.

Need more info on what you're feeding.

I really couldn't tell anything from your last pic. Try re-shooting it under natural or incandescent light.


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## solartoke (Mar 20, 2010)

Dose any one know if I put plastic on ground 3 gallon buckets on top with foxfarm ocean floor soil and light warrior soil mixed... with a window screen type mesh on all 4 sides 4 to 5 feet tall with a emergency plastic see thru cover for heavy rains will my lil green patch be almost bug free>? Even if I spray a week before I start? the entire area? Also I wont have to worry about bud rot as long as the buds are not soaked from rain correct? Or do humidity levels play a role int hat too? Sry for posting off topic but this post is so popular. thanks so much sry for throwing off topic (


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## friscobeauty (Mar 20, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> You're doomed. If you need someone to advise you when to water and how much to feed, you'll fail. This is YOUR garden, your plants will tell you if they need food and when to water them, learn to read your plants and take someone's advise with a grain of salt - it isn't their garden and they are not there to watch your day to day activities.
> 
> Gotta ask, why do you want to complicate things by going with rockwool, drip, etc.? Unless drip is done right, your plants will be subjected to uneven watering and other issues. Soil is much more forgiving. What is the NPK and micro values of your foods?
> 
> ...



I was interested in trying a new medium, and did a first grow in soil. I was able to spend more money on it, and the idea was on a general idea of a yield, and i felt that a hydro medium might be a way to boost the possibility of the max yield. We've got a drip system in the works so watering should be figured out, at least the evenness of it. its our first day of flowering... well soon.. within a couple days. now the argument is topping/fiming or lollipopping.... anyone have any recommendations?

On a side note: I don't know if you were being sarcastic about me being doomed, but I didn't mean i need someone to tell me every single step. Avoiding catastrophe by following general guidelines is usually a good way to start, so feeling for as much information as possible and comparing it and then applying is what i'm interested in. If i water the plants like i said, and it seems like they need more, i'm not going to bite my fingernails until they all die, i'm going to adjust accordingly.... So I wouldn't say I'm doomed.


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## widowmaker1000w (Mar 21, 2010)

hey guys im new to the game but one of my ak 47's are getting black tips on the leaf 's. does anyone know whats goin on?


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## HarryCarey (Mar 21, 2010)

Hey UB sorry to be a bother but my plants seem to be ready for bed (drooping) everyday about an hour before lights out even as I stage a changing of the seasons in my light schedule (30 mins more dark a day, is this ok, and I know its more work than I need to do but I wanted to try it) and are perfectly upright and straight in the morn and all day.


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## HarryCarey (Mar 21, 2010)

^leaves dont droop just leaf stems


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 22, 2010)

HarryCarey said:


> ^leaves dont droop just leaf stems


Moisture stress, go back to page one.


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## HarryCarey (Mar 22, 2010)

Ya thats what I figured thanks, already read page one and most the others. I'm pretty sure over/underwater isn't an issue but i have real low humidity so I'll try to fix that thanks again


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## friscobeauty (Mar 22, 2010)

Also, UB, thank you for welcoming me to RIU! i'm loving soaking up the info like a sponge... or plant ;D hope all is well. We have officially topped and trimmed some bottom stalks, and now, the long wait... and hard work to keep it all right. I'm very excited and a little nervous as the process is new, but it's looking great. I'll post a few more pictures, maybe you can take a look? Also UB, i hope you weren't offended by my attitude towards you're bluntness. I do appreciate it, no matter if i dislike what i hear. I think I can learn best from reality, not some inflated ego stroking... I do hope we can continue discussions! Thanks again for all the help, and i say this from anyone who hasn't thanked you, because you religiously check the forum, and respond accordingly. it's a lifesaver to the newbs biting their nails over nothing, and anyone else in between.... Thanks again UB hope to hear from you.


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## friscobeauty (Mar 22, 2010)

https://www.rollitup.org/members/friscobeauty-220868/albums/purple-kush-grow-11589/ 
just in case you no longer have the link. I apologize for the terrible quality, I only have a camera phone.


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## jjfoo (Mar 22, 2010)

friscobeauty said:


> unsure if this will even get a reply but can someone look at these pics? https://www.rollitup.org/members/friscobeauty-albums-purple-kush-grow-picture114229-overfertilized.jpeg
> i'm doing a coco/hydroton grow with Purple Kush clones, and I have a feeling they're over fert and overwatered, so what i did was i flushed them with 6.0 pH water at 10-50ppm for a couple days until the runoff water read 650ppm and 6.0pH...



What lead up to this? What was the EC you where using for the last waterings leading up to this?

How often do you water? I've used both coco and rock wool but never together. I usually mix perlite with coco and even tried with hydroton. I've switched to soil for everything.


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## riirotan (Mar 22, 2010)

Been doing some reading, and it sounds like this is probably my problem. 

I'm just an occasional  person, don't really know anything about growing. This is the first time I've experimented with it, found a single seed in the last stash I had and decided to plant it after leaving it sitting on my desk for a few weeks.

Leaves started pointing up after a few days, then curling a bit as you can see in the photo, and reading through this thread I'm guessing maybe overwatering (I've been pretty careful not to) or low humidity or something? I dunno though, I've been poking around through these and other threads looking for something similar in photos, and I haven't seen it. maybe one of you cats can confirm for me. Hasn't really grown much in the past few days either, it's about 8 or 9 days since it sprouted.


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## DaveCoulier (Mar 23, 2010)

What type of light is that plant getting? I pulled a seedling somewhat similar to that out of a tub of soil. It had been in there dark for at least 3 days. Its cotyledons were standing straight up like yours, and it was a very pale green/yellow color like yours.


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## riirotan (Mar 23, 2010)

Two 5500k 100w equivalent CFLs about ~2-2.5 inches from the leaves on ~18/6 or so. About 3500 lumens between the two, I think. Not enough?


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## DaveCoulier (Mar 23, 2010)

riirotan said:


> Two 5500k 100w equivalent CFLs about ~2-2.5 inches from the leaves on ~18/6 or so. About 3500 lumens between the two, I think. Not enough?


You only have 46 real watts of light here. You're going to need more. Check your home depots for 65w cfl's. 42 is the lowest I would go if they dont have that. Two or three 65 watters should get you on track for veg. You may want a bit more for flower though.


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## riirotan (Mar 23, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> You only have 46 real watts of light here. You're going to need more. Check your home depots for 65w cfl's. 42 is the lowest I would go if they dont have that. Two or three 65 watters should get you on track for veg. You may want a bit more for flower though.



Thanks, I appreciate the info. I was worried it was something more problematic.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 23, 2010)

HarryCarey said:


> ...... but i have real low humidity so I'll try to fix that thanks again


As long as you're not inducing moisture stress and you have a normal root system, low RH should never be a problem. The root system will compensate for the "extra" transpiration rate by taking in more water, it's an internal cell turgor thingie, a balance based on supply and demand.

UB


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## friscobeauty (Mar 23, 2010)

jjfoo said:


> What lead up to this? What was the EC you where using for the last waterings leading up to this?
> 
> How often do you water? I've used both coco and rock wool but never together. I usually mix perlite with coco and even tried with hydroton. I've switched to soil for everything.


We water by hand once a day, now. We went from 3x, to 2x, to now once per day. We jumped from around 500 to 1000 or more PPM which I think burnt them. We just flipped to 12/12 and are weaning off Veg Nutes, going to Flowering Nutes at around 600 and then pumping upward to maybe 1200 we will see what they can take. Also think overwatering might be an issue now, some algae grew, which is an indicator, and some leaves are still cupping.


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## soohighrightnow (Mar 23, 2010)

shes about a week old been under 2 100w and 2 120w cfl good vent and temps 73 to 80 max and humidity 25 to 35 and water is not the issue using ffof shes droopin like a bitch anybody tell me why?? its the pic by my name and certain aint over water could it really be the humidity being so low


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## wyteboi (Mar 24, 2010)

soohighrightnow said:


> shes about a week old been under 2 100w and 2 120w cfl good vent and temps 73 to 80 max and humidity 25 to 35 and water is not the issue using ffof shes droopin like a bitch anybody tell me why?? its the pic by my name and certain aint over water could it really be the humidity being so low


FFOF is kinda hot for seeds but if thats the prob it should come out of it soon. ONLY WATER for a couple more weeks.


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## canadiantyke (Mar 24, 2010)

Hello Everyone,
Newbie in need of help 
I just started my first hydroponic grow with a flood and drain 4X8 with a 1000 HPS, light is 3' to 3.5 feet above the babies. Temp is 75 with 30% to 45% hum. Light is on for 18 and the table is fed 8 times aday.. "3".. Here is my mix General Hydroponics FloraGro 2-1-6.. FloraBloom 0-5-4... FloraMicro 5-0-1... mixed at 2.5ml to 4.5L with a total of 35 l in the Tank... 4" netpots with a mix of 95% dolamite and 5% Hydroton... PH has been 5.5--5.7--and 6.0

These little girls are White Rhino and they were cloned in a easy cloner... All was good untill the move to the table... 1 week old in the table now and plants are anywhere from 3" to 9 " tall... ok now the bad.. I have been acting like a new dad with this setup so this is why I need help..
Here is a scan I took of 2 of the worst leaves, I can take more pics if needed..

Thanks for the help and I look forward to a responce..


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## i81two (Mar 24, 2010)

1000w is like a nucleur storm to those young little girls. . You gotta wien them to that kind of light and nute.


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## canadiantyke (Mar 24, 2010)

i81two said:


> 1000w is like a nucleur storm to those young little girls. . You gotta wien them to that kind of light and nute.


Thanks for the reply. would a 400w be better and less nute?

Tyke


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## riddleme (Mar 24, 2010)

canadiantyke said:


> Thanks for the reply. would a 400w be better and less nute?
> 
> Tyke


Yeppers that is a light burn, if you have a 400 sure otherwise just raise the 1000 up higher


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## croh420 (Mar 24, 2010)

Thank you Uncle Ben for your posts. It's people like you that keeps people like me from wasting my money on useless products. Keep up the great posts.


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## canadiantyke (Mar 24, 2010)

Sweet, I just changed out the 1000 for the 400. I never would of even thought about to much light.. Heat yes light no... I can't thank you guys enough for the help and the information. Looks like I just found a new place to call HOME 

Oh I also added some more water to lower the Nute. This new system has been a new experience. Again like a new dad LMAO

Thanks again

Tyke


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## jjfoo (Mar 25, 2010)

what is the conversion you are using to get your PPM?

PPM is derived off EC and there are at multiple conversion factors used by different manufacturers of meters.

I'm not saying this is wrong but, why do you jump around on your feeding levels?

do you mean 3X and 2X per week? If so, why did you go from 3X to 2X? I usually up the number as the plants grow.



friscobeauty said:


> We water by hand once a day, now. We went from 3x, to 2x, to now once per day. We jumped from around 500 to 1000 or more PPM which I think burnt them. We just flipped to 12/12 and are weaning off Veg Nutes, going to Flowering Nutes at around 600 and then pumping upward to maybe 1200 we will see what they can take. Also think overwatering might be an issue now, some algae grew, which is an indicator, and some leaves are still cupping.


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## jjfoo (Mar 25, 2010)

i81two said:


> 1000w is like a nucleur storm to those young little girls. . You gotta wien them to that kind of light and nute.


I have used 1000 watt lights to root clippings. If they are spaced far enough away they wont burn the plants. If they are too far away they won't be enough for that matter...


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## jjfoo (Mar 25, 2010)

canadiantyke said:


> Thanks for the reply. would a 400w be better and less nute?
> 
> Tyke



I would recommend getting a light meter. How else can you know exactly how much light your plants are getting.


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## canadiantyke (Mar 25, 2010)

Hello again,
I checked the babies when I woke up and the puffiness of the leaves has gone, the leaves are pitched up towards the light and they look happy.
What I ment with the "3" is the pump floods the table every 3 hours.

I am going to go and buy a light meter and a dig PH meter. The person I bought the Nute from gave me a DIY sheet for " size-growth-clour-etc" but was just a guide line, so I needed to add some water anyway due to usage.. I hope I did the right thing..... Again they look happy for now 

I cant tell ya how Happy I was to find this site...
Thanks again

Tyke


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## ClosetMonster (Mar 27, 2010)

Hey Uncle Ben. I would really appreciate if you took a look at my thread and gave me some advice. I have read and read and read, and you seem to be one of the most knowledgeable growers on ROI. Any advide from you would be extremely appreciated. Thank you very much man. Have a great one. I want this to be a somewhat decent first grow.


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## riddleme (Mar 27, 2010)

ClosetMonster said:


> Hey Uncle Ben. I would really appreciate if you took a look at my thread and gave me some advice. I have read and read and read, and you seem to be one of the most knowledgeable growers on ROI. Any advide from you would be extremely appreciated. Thank you very much man. Have a great one. I want this to be a somewhat decent first grow.


Hey UB here is his thread link for ya
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/315712-drooping-leaves-i-have-few.html

I was there last night


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 27, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Hey UB here is his thread link for ya
> https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/315712-drooping-leaves-i-have-few.html
> 
> I was there last night


Appreciate your time.


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## Thundernuts (Mar 31, 2010)

I need help ub.I've read alot of your threads and advice,and figured who better to help me help my plant than you.
I have a 10 day old seedling(from seed).I started it in a jiffy cube,once it popped out of the cube i transferred it to a 10 litre pot.
It is just starting it's second set of leaves(first set of three leaves).I haven't feed it anything but water yet(still to young for nutes yet).I am using a neutral organic soil as my growing medium.Yesterday i noticed that the first set of leaves are beginning to droop,yellow,and black spots are forming on the leaves.I read one of your threads about over/under watering and think that i may have over watered it.Is there a way to reverse this?If i don't water for a little while will it bring it back,or is my plant done for?I will include some pics of my plant in hopes you can assess the situation(the pics aren't the best i know!!)
Thank you.


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## DaveCoulier (Apr 1, 2010)

PIcture quality is crap, but it does appear to be over-watered. Just give it some time without water and it will begin to recover in 2-3 days.


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## Thundernuts (Apr 1, 2010)

Will the black spots fade away,or will they just die and fall off.There only it's first set of leaves so i'm not too worried about them,it's the future of the plant i am worried about.It's a feminized big bang seed from ghs,and since i paid for it,i don't want to kill it.Does the peat in the jiffy cubes retain moisture longer than plain soil?


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## trifase (Apr 1, 2010)

EDIT:

I'm removing my post (my plants likely overferted & overwatered - asking what to do now if diagnosis correct) since I was in panic and I quickly posted lacking info on an issue that has probably been covered many times on this thread.

I will do some research now before posting here to be sure I'm not wasting your time - sorry & thanx


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 1, 2010)

Thundernuts said:


> Will the black spots fade away,or will they just die and fall off.


The black dots are an expression of stress, a symptom. It is the precursor to leaf drop. Just like if you were to lose a leg to gangrene, the gangrene would not affect your entire limb at once, it would start small and the disease would spread - same drill here.

A 10 L. pot is too big of a pot for such a small plant. Jiffy cubes are too small, they restrict/stunt root development. You're really off to a bad start. Did you read any books on plant culture or is this your first stab at growing anything?

In the future, soak the seed for 12 hours, sow it in a tall 20 oz styrofoam cup, at least 6.5" tall, that has holes burned in the bottom with a hot icepick for drainage and when you feel the plants may be getting rootbound then upcan to your 10L. pot. The seed's taproot (radicle) is already 4.5" long by the time the cotyledons pop the soil's surface, don't restrict it. 

Your plants are yellowing which means they are deficient in N and other minerals.

Good luck,
UB


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## Thundernuts (Apr 1, 2010)

Thanks for the reply,
Will the black spots continue to spread through out the plant?It is my fourth try.First with fem seeds.Others were just bag seed.2 males and a hermie so far.Was hoping for better luck with this one,but like you said,seems to be off to a bad start.Will it recover,or is it over for poor seedling?I was going to start feeding it nutes next week at quater strength(book says not to feed seedlings for about 2-3 weeks after germination).Should i start sooner.I did soak it in water over night.It is also first time i tried the jiffy cube.All the other times i just planted it straight into the soil,and although they turned out to be male(or hermie),they still grew,and looked better than this one.
I do have a few books that i use to reference(marijuana horticulture by jorge cervantes,and the cannabis grow bible by greg green).


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 1, 2010)

Thundernuts, you need to learn what makes a plant tick. I gave you my thoughts.


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## kkross (Apr 3, 2010)

hello there im havin major problems. my plants in week 4 bud are yellowing lookin rusty on leaves. most of the yellow is coming from the top down. i thought it was lack of food so i up it to 1500 and no change. Its an old strain of kk could it be the plants themselfs? its been doin this for years and ive tried everything. Growing in hydro and everything is perfect till week 4. I veg 5 weeks the plants are about 5 ft tall and 4 ft wide. Any sugesstions


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## pilot011972 (Apr 3, 2010)

Uncle Ben,
I have two plants in veg for about 3 weeks and have noticed that two lower leaves are not as developed as all my other ones. Is this normal? To me, the leaves look like they are hard and not the nice full fans. Does that make sense? Your thoughts?


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 3, 2010)

Can't give my take without more info, mainly NPK values.


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## pilot011972 (Apr 3, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Can't give my take without more info, mainly NPK values.


I have attached some pictures for you. Please ask any questions you might have. I have them in Fox Farm soil, only used grow fert(very little) as a spray on foilage and have them under a T5 light in a silver addition grow room.


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## mcpurple (Apr 3, 2010)

hey ub i was wondering if u might know whats wrong with my shishkaberry plants, they were doin fine mabye a lil yellow but about 2 days ago i fd them and then the leafs strted turnin yellow on the bottoms and some up top, also the leafs seem a bit droopy. the only thing i can think of is over nuted it heres some pics the plant is 3 weeks flower


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 4, 2010)

pilot011972 said:


> I have attached some pictures for you. Please ask any questions you might have.


I did, now let's try this again. What is the NPK value of your Grow food? They look fine to me BTW.

mcpurple, same question goes to you, also how much food did you give them? If you try to push your plants, with anything - light, nutes, water, etc., it will work against you.

Just a comment, there are many factors that can cause stress in a plant. I'm not a mind reader, I'm not there observing your everyday activities. Showing me a photo and asking "what's wrong with my plant" will usually get you no response from me.

Just a heads up,
UB


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## mcpurple (Apr 4, 2010)

Sorry ub should of added more info, well i always seem to have a yellowing prob early into flower do to it having low doses of N. so i switched nutes and gave them veg nutes for the first 2 weks of flower to keep them greener well on my last feed they all of a sudden started to yeloow and kinda get rusty and fall off about ten came off this morning and its only been a prob for 3 days now but i can tell it is getting worse. so heres my info.

600 watt light with 200 watt cfl for xtra light. strain is shishkaberry. planted in 3 gal pots the day they were put into flower, they are 24 days into flower. and here is my feed shedule for them for the last few weeks. also i am using GH floranove grow and bloom grow NPK is 7-4-10 and the bloom NPK is 4-8-7 heres the feed chart.
day 1 of flower they were fed1/2 tsp of veg and 1/4 tsp microblast from earthjuice. then on 3-23-10 i fed them 11/4 tsp veg nutes along with 1/4 tsp bloom nutes on 3-27-10 i gave them plain water till i had about 5 percent runoff just a trickle of water comeing out the bottom. then on 3-30-10 i fed them with 1 1/4 tsp bloom and a 1/4 tsp of supernaturals superliciuose. the day after this feed is when it started to yellow out so i thought mabye its nute burn but some people are sayin it isnt and then yesterday i waterd them with plain water with mallases till i had about 30 perent runoff to kinda give it a small lil flush and it seems it didnt help at all. i ph all my water to 6.5-6.7 with and with out nutes. heres some pics from today u can see the yellowing that starts at the bottom and theri is a few larger yellow leafs up top. also a pic of all the leafs that came off this moring with a touch they seem to have like rust spots that are dry. i cant tell if this a Def. of somsort or overnuting. also a pic of my other plants to campare color the others are nice and dark green still wich is hat i am trin to do is keep them green. 
also here is what my bottle of nutes says to add to the plants. it says 1/2 tsp for seedlings. 1 tsp for most plants during earlt growth. 2tsp for most plants during later growth and then finally 3 tsp per gal for rapidly growing plants hope this info is what u need if u need any more i can give it. my temps are 75-80 lights on and 65-70 lights off


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 4, 2010)

mcpurple said:


> Sorry ub should of added more info, well i always seem to have a yellowing prob early into flower do to it having low doses of N.


Appreciate the extensive write up. Sounds like they haven't been getting enough N and/or the root system is screwed up.


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## smoke3Ls (Apr 4, 2010)

question for uncle ben seems like he knows his shit. Is it possible to kill my plants because of to much c02 and is there ne symptoms the pklants will show due to too much co2?? thanks


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## mcpurple (Apr 4, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Appreciate the extensive write up. Sounds like they haven't been getting enough N and/or the root system is screwed up.


funy u say that cuz this morning i popped the root ball out and it was way root bound so i pur them in 5 gal pots now i know this shouldnt be doen in flower but i think it will help


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 5, 2010)

smoke3Ls said:


> question for uncle ben seems like he knows his shit. Is it possible to kill my plants because of to much c02 and is there ne symptoms the pklants will show due to too much co2?? thanks


CO2 can be toxic. There is a saturation point for everything, including light.



mcpurple said:


> funy u say that cuz this morning i popped the root ball out and it was way root bound so i pur them in 5 gal pots now i know this shouldnt be doen in flower but i think it will help


Won't hurt but won't help either. Once a plant switches to a flowering mode, root production is put on hold or at least kept to a minimum. When you harvest, pop it out to inspect the rootball and report back please.

Good luck,
UB


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## mcpurple (Apr 5, 2010)

wil do ub, i think it should work. i had a cutting that i put into flower the first day it shoewd a root the root was about 1/4 i placed in a half gal pot and into flower and within now 2 weeks later the roots are growing out of the pot, but when it is harvested i will for sure post a pic of the root mass to see if theri is any new growth. i also did this with a flowering plant a awhile ago it was root bound in a 5 gal pot 3 week of flower so i transplanted to a 10 gal after one week i ended up tossing the plant do to it being seeded. i pulled the plant out of the pot and new roots were made and almost to the sides and bottom of the pot so no doubt they still grow in flower but im sure not near as much as in veg. thanks for the info UB


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## jjfoo (Apr 5, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Once a plant switches to a flowering mode, root production is put on hold or at least kept to a minimum. When you harvest, pop it out to inspect the rootball and report back please.
> 
> Good luck,
> UB


so many people transplant into large pots right before they flower

So if I go from 1 gal pots into 5 gal, I need to let them veg for a while in the 5 before flipping them, right?

I guess I should make more space for my veg area.


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## mcpurple (Apr 5, 2010)

UB i just though this, and dont know if i mentiond it, im not questioning your anwser u gave me about the roots slwing down alot in flower. but my plants that are having the probs were in 2.7 liter pots from theri i transplanted them into 3 gal pots and that same day they went into flower. now after three weeks of flower it seems to me that th roots grew alot in three weeks of flower to the point of being root bound


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 6, 2010)

I'm jest saying that once a plant switches into a strong flowering mode root production is put on the back burner. You'll just have to take a look at the rootball upon harvest and draw your own conclusions. You should have much greater root growth if you upcanned 3 weeks prior to flippin' than 3 weeks after.

A plant takes a certain amount of time to become established after it's been upcanned.


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## mcpurple (Apr 7, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> I'm jest saying that once a plant switches into a strong flowering mode root production is put on the back burner. You'll just have to take a look at the rootball upon harvest and draw your own conclusions. You should have much greater root growth if you upcanned 3 weeks prior to flippin' than 3 weeks after.
> 
> A plant takes a certain amount of time to become established after it's been upcanned.


i understand that thr root growth lows alot, and like i said i will post a ppic of ther root ball when finished to show if they grow decently. and ya i know it would have been better to do three weeks before but my veg room is to small for the bigger pots thats why i flweor the day i transplant. it doesnt really seem like growth is slowed when i do this though but i could be wrong as i am no expert.


also i was wondering when a plant uses the most nutes, i would think it is during the strech and when the buds are growing, but through the strech i should still be givin them quite a bit of veg nutes right to keep them more green


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## badja (Apr 13, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> You'll have abundant foliage and the pot will need watering often. The condition and mass of the foliage pretty much indicates the same with the root system.
> 
> tryinghard, thanks bro. It's helped out alot of people over the years. It's pretty basic stuff but sometimes we lose sight of the forest for the trees.
> 
> UB


Ok, so i recently added a 3rd light to my plants as their in the last few weeks of flowering. But since i have done this a number of plants in the middle of the group have started showing signs of leaf cupping but only on the very top buds. Am i safe to say this is because of too much light??? as the room is 29 deg celcius 30% humidity and i know my nutes and watering are spot on??

P.s forgot to say thanks for the info very usefull, and fuck me man some people know some shit about plants haha


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 13, 2010)

badja said:


> Ok, so i recently added a 3rd light to my plants


What kind of light?


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## mcpurple (Apr 13, 2010)

hey ub i i took my girls out today for a look at them, and i looked underneath the pot and roots were shooting out of the bottom, i would take a pic but its hard to hold the pot up and take a pic. their is about 25 holes in my pot on the bottom and roots are coming out of them all. i think they do grow a bit slower in flower but not alot, they grew in to those pots pretty fast. when i harvest my plants i will take a pic of the roots and how much they grew while flowering


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## soohighrightnow (Apr 13, 2010)

k shes bout 3 wks old just started addin ff big bloom and bout a week later grow big went by the feedin sched on there site...since i just started addin the nutes i figured its nute burn but what yall think?? and i only water them when they need it not every day and pics are from same plant growth as stopped for bout 5 days i bet usin cfl a little droopy rest of leaves look good too


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## riddleme (Apr 13, 2010)

soohighrightnow said:


> k shes bout 3 wks old just started addin ff big bloom and bout a week later grow big went by the feedin sched on there site...since i just started addin the nutes i figured its nute burn but what yall think?? and i only water them when they need it not every day and pics are from same plant growth as stopped for bout 5 days i bet usin cfl a little droopy rest of leaves look good too


Way to early for big bloom, prolly a bit early for nutes at all but should be somewhere at 1/4 strength grow big every 3rd watering (but I would wait a few more weeks before doing that)

does look like a nute burn but also look overwatered, did you take the pics right after watering???


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 13, 2010)

mcpurple said:


> hey ub i i took my girls out today for a look at them, and i looked underneath the pot and roots were shooting out of the bottom, i would take a pic but its hard to hold the pot up and take a pic. their is about 25 holes in my pot on the bottom and roots are coming out of them all. i think they do grow a bit slower in flower but not alot, they grew in to those pots pretty fast. when i harvest my plants i will take a pic of the roots and how much they grew while flowering


Sounds good.


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## x2misty (Apr 13, 2010)

hi, im a newbie and my leaves are going yellow during flowering. there are a few that go yellow during growth stage but lots in flowering. some leaves have got a few brown spots bit only a couple. im on a 3 feed to one H2O with bio flores in soil. what am i doing wrong? how can i fix it? thanx.


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## DaveCoulier (Apr 13, 2010)

x2misty said:


> hi, im a newbie and my leaves are going yellow during flowering. there are a few that go yellow during growth stage but lots in flowering. some leaves have got a few brown spots bit only a couple. im on a 3 feed to one H2O with bio flores in soil. what am i doing wrong? how can i fix it? thanx.


Give them some veg nutes. Your plants still need Nitrogen during flowering, and most flower nutes do not provide enough. 

Chlorophyll is constantly being broken down by light, so we need to supply enough N to create more. If you dont your buds/newest growth will steal N from your lower leaves to meet their needs. Not only do you end up with greatly reduced chlorophyll production from lack of N, but its also being stolen from the very leaves that drive bud production. Vicious cycle id say.


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## badja (Apr 14, 2010)

im in 5th week of bloom , just did the second round of power to bloom and started on the overdrive boost alonf with my cana a + B , so i had 2 600w hps lights in my room , its roughly 7ft wide 5 ft deep , got 16 afghan blues in there, so i added the 3rd 600w hps ,a cannatronics eco lite and over the past few days the top leaves on the biggest plants have started curling. So i read your thread yesterday and took the cannatronics light out of there but now im noticing slight discolouration on tips of some leaves , which would lead me to nute burn but i gave my plants a full watering last week before i switched from big bud to overdrive and started building my nutes up. iv pulled one out of the room so ill take a few pics now and see what you think mate, cheers


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## badja (Apr 14, 2010)

just the pics ben so you can have a look, i think im definitely swaying to over nuting,


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 14, 2010)

badja said:


> just the pics ben so you can have a look, i think im definitely swaying to over nuting,


Too much heat, too much P, too much light.... it's hard to say. Dave did a great job of explaining plant nutrition. 

Less is more,
UB


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## badja (Apr 14, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Too much heat, too much P, too much light.... it's hard to say. Dave did a great job of explaining plant nutrition.
> 
> Less is more,
> UB


Nitrogen lol you know i was just discussing my problem with a mate and he said nitrogen ha only problem with that is the fact canna a + b is for the vegative phase and flowering , so im gunna have to find something else to ad to the mix , thanks for the help guys


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## soohighrightnow (Apr 15, 2010)

whats the best fix for stunted growth and for nute burn??? flushing right??? how many times should ya do it??


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## bigsourD (Apr 15, 2010)

soohighrightnow said:


> whats the best fix for stunted growth and for nute burn??? flushing right??? how many times should ya do it??


Just some fresh water everytime you need to water, be generous in amount but do not overwater as that may be bad for the roots.


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## jjfoo (Apr 15, 2010)

badja said:


> fact canna a + b is for the vegative phase and flowering , so im gunna have to find something else to ad to the mix :



if canna a + b is good for veg and flowering why do you need to add anything? I don't use canna a + b but have seen it work fine all by it self.


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## soohighrightnow (Apr 17, 2010)

k so im a bit confused on a issue.... i just started addin nutes last week and stopped 3 days in to adding them because i seemed to have been turning some leaves yellow....i wasnt thinking right when i added them to the water i did 2 tsp i think when i should of started like a 1/4 dose to start with but i gave them to much i think.... now the part that im confused on is i been reading alot of threads bout nute defincincy and what not and alot of them say if the lower leaves start turning yellow its a nitrogen def...but i thot i added to much nitrogen and thats wat caused the yellowing and dying of my lower leaves????i havent added any more nutes yet but am thinking about adding more but starting at a lower dose whats yalls take on all this??? thanks for any feedback


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## smifnwessun (Apr 18, 2010)

This was very helpful.


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## xxDogTagZxx (Apr 19, 2010)

Uncle Ben i was wondering if u could help me as to what is wrong with my plants. I have had a yellowing problem since the first month of growing and have tried everythin to fix the problem. From flushes to buyin a pH meter and keeping the pH between 5.6-6.4. I also have used distilled water and rain water to help them out. I bought new plant nutes called Bloom Booster from miracle grow that i also use with an organic nute by miracle grow. I also have put my fan on for 24 hours on medium sppeed instead of just when the lights are on. I am at about 30 days of flowerin and still have another 40 to go and the yellowing is now traveling from the bottom of the plants to the tops more rapidly. The yellowing was always at the bottom leaves and never really affected the new growth. Here are a few pics hope u can help me out before my grow dies. Thanks and hope to hear from u soon.


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## xxDogTagZxx (Apr 19, 2010)

soohighrightnow said:


> k so im a bit confused on a issue.... i just started addin nutes last week and stopped 3 days in to adding them because i seemed to have been turning some leaves yellow....i wasnt thinking right when i added them to the water i did 2 tsp i think when i should of started like a 1/4 dose to start with but i gave them to much i think.... now the part that im confused on is i been reading alot of threads bout nute defincincy and what not and alot of them say if the lower leaves start turning yellow its a nitrogen def...but i thot i added to much nitrogen and thats wat caused the yellowing and dying of my lower leaves????i havent added any more nutes yet but am thinking about adding more but starting at a lower dose whats yalls take on all this??? thanks for any feedback


I have always been told that u are supposed to use about 1/4 strength of what the nute instructions say for the first few weeks then slowly give them more until u are at the full 2 tspoons.


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## DaveCoulier (Apr 19, 2010)

XDog, you are experiencing a N deficiency. Ignore all the crap you've read about not needing N during flowering. You do need it. This is why you have lost so many leaves, and it will continue until you give them some veg nutes. Also, I wouldn't use the Bloom Booster, or any Boosters in fact. They're great for experiencing leaf loss, and that's about it. Lack of N, plus excessive P is a great recipe for losing lots of leaves. 

Also, your ladies barely look like they've been flowering 2 weeks. They should be further along for 30 days. What type of lighting are you using?


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## xxDogTagZxx (Apr 19, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> XDog, you are experiencing a N deficiency. Ignore all the crap you've read about not needing N during flowering. You do need it. This is why you have lost so many leaves, and it will continue until you give them some veg nutes. Also, I wouldn't use the Bloom Booster, or any Boosters in fact. They're great for experiencing leaf loss, and that's about it. Lack of N, plus excessive P is a great recipe for losing lots of leaves.
> 
> Also, your ladies barely look like they've been flowering 2 weeks. They should be further along for 30 days. What type of lighting are you using?


Those pics are about a 2 weeks old. The lights are off right now and couldnt take a new pic. I just wanted u guys to get an idea of what ive been bangin my head against the wall tryin to fix. The bloom booster nute is 12-9-6 and the organic nute is 8-0-0. I just shot 2 new pics so u can see the new yellowing and drooping leaves. I havent been adding to much nutes because of the yellowing. First som1 said it was a pH problem then nute problem and have done everythin. Heres the new pics i just took.


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## DaveCoulier (Apr 19, 2010)

Ive never heard of a Bloom Booster that had more N than P, but sure enough it does exist. I thought you were originally using the x-30-x one. You have plenty of N to support healthy foliage from those two nutes, so It must be something else. Have you calibrated your ph meter recently? Maybe its way off and its affecting the uptake of nutrients.


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## joedfool (Apr 19, 2010)

Something is going on with my plants and I'm not sure how to correct it. The leaves on some of them seem to be growing funny. 
*One of the plants has a rough feel to the leaves.
* The leaves on most of them are dropping down a bit.

I have included pics.

Maybe overreacting but this is my 1st time. Any thoughts are welcomed

Using Aeroflo
3 1000w mh bulbs (air cooled)
ph 6.3
ppm 1000

Any more info available on request


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## bigsourD (Apr 19, 2010)

joedfool said:


> Maybe overreacting but this is my 1st time. Any thoughts are welcomed
> 
> Using Aeroflo
> 3 1000w mh bulbs (air cooled)
> ...


ppm's too high for their size. try lowering to 700-800


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## Murfy (Apr 19, 2010)

> Those pics are about a 2 weeks old. The lights are off right now and couldnt take a new pic. I just wanted u guys to get an idea of what ive been bangin my head against the wall tryin to fix. The bloom booster nute is 12-9-6 and the organic nute is 8-0-0. I just shot 2 new pics so u can see the new yellowing and drooping leaves. I havent been adding to much nutes because of the yellowing. First som1 said it was a pH problem then nute problem and have done everythin. Heres the new pics i just took.


uncle ben,

what is your opinion on 12-9-6 booster?


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## xxDogTagZxx (Apr 19, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Ive never heard of a Bloom Booster that had more N than P, but sure enough it does exist. I thought you were originally using the x-30-x one. You have plenty of N to support healthy foliage from those two nutes, so It must be something else. Have you calibrated your ph meter recently? Maybe its way off and its affecting the uptake of nutrients.


I had it shipped to me and it was calibrated before i got it. But 1 day i was checkin the pH and the meter fell inside the water for a split second. The readings were at 19.0 and i knew that wasnt right. I let it sit ova nite and used tap water to calibrate it to the best of my ability. When i tested my tap water the first day the pH meter came in it said the pH was around 9.2 or so. So i calibrated it to the tap water back to 9.2. I cant find any buffer soultion to calibrate it without ordering it online and right now im strapped for cash with rent coming up. So i thought that would werk ok for now. It says my pH is between 6.0-6.2. I dont know what else to do. I added a few drops of the organic nute just in case it was short on nitrogen after i posted this. The lights come back on at midnite and i hope to see a lil improvement. But i can say the bloom booster has made my buds almost double in size everyday to day in a half. Well thanks alot for the help every1 i hope i can fix this problem soon before the yellowing goes right to the top and ruins all my colas. Any advice or help is always apreciated. Thanks in advance


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## Murfy (Apr 19, 2010)

after all that, how could it even be close?

aren't Ph strips cheap at walmart for the kiddie pool


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## xxDogTagZxx (Apr 19, 2010)

Murfy said:


> after all that, how could it even be close?
> 
> aren't Ph strips cheap at walmart for the kiddie pool


The first day i got my pH meter i was checking the pH of the distilled water, rain water, and the tap water. I know the pH in my res is contantly changing because of addin new water and nutes but my tap water should of been unchanged. Thats y i used it as a calibration soultion since i knew the pH was around 9.2. But i do have the drops pH solutin but that shit never werks for me right. It will show up as yellow on the chart for acidic but i neva know how acidic it is and thats what made me buy the pH meter. I will double check with the drop solution tonite and see if its yellow or blue. According to the chart yellow is 5-6 and blue is ova 7. And when the meter fell in the water it was for like a tenth of a second. I dont know anymore to be honest i have tried everythin and cant get this dam yellowing to die down.


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## jjfoo (Apr 20, 2010)

I use calibration solution and calibrate my meter at least once a month. It is part of maintaining the meter, you can't buy it calibrated and assume it will not need it again. I have pH and PPM calibration solutions that are cheap to buy. Also, make sure you store it in a storage solution so the probe doesn't dry out...


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## soohighrightnow (Apr 20, 2010)

i just got a mil ph51 lovin it so far im testin everything i says to keep the sensor end constatly in the storage solution or even in the 4 buffer solution anyone do this to theres??? and i forget wats the proper ph for marijuana??? and is there something household that raises and lowers ph??? like lemon,or oranges them are a dumb thing to bring up to adjust ph but i was really wondering if they do effect ph???


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## drogrowin (Apr 21, 2010)

View attachment 890634View attachment 890633View attachment 890632Is this light stress or nute problem? thanksView attachment 890631 this is an ebb and flow system.... with clones in a 6x6 rockwool.... I have never grown in rockwool before....

HELPPPPP my babies please....


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 21, 2010)

Hey fellas, this a tweaks thread, not one to solve your problems. That's another forum.

Anyone having a problem with the forum's "skin"? This is awful!

BTW, good job Dave.


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## azoo (Apr 22, 2010)

i think my soil is to moist an thats why mine have been yellow the soil is all ways wet thanks for the post


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## dankesthours182 (Apr 22, 2010)

if ppl would just realize these simple things you have mentioned ALWAYS STAY THE SAME we'd get along better. leaves.... they represent the well being of your plant. this shoudl be a sticky, and if the questions are ever asked again .... then the post should be deleted (after pointing the new B in the correct direction)
i think we all want to help, but when you've been explaining something year after year it just makes sense.... anyhow, i'm finally ina place where my grow can be successful (indoor and outdoor, in four locations) i'm pumped


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## dankesthours182 (Apr 22, 2010)

if we had a training program to show ppl (like me) how to efficiently use the ENTIRE site i think we'd all have fewer headaches. I've been a part of RIU for several years, but it's been a while, and i've always found forums confusing AS HELL,,...... .so pleeeeeeease? please mods? please train us all


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## drogrowin (Apr 22, 2010)

Yeah i dont like this new layout!!! BOOOO ROLLITUP!


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## MaxNarco (Apr 23, 2010)

great post +rep


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## mcpurple (Apr 24, 2010)

Originally Posted by Uncle Ben 
Once a plant switches to a flowering mode, root production is put on hold or at least kept to a minimum. When you harvest, pop it out to inspect the rootball and report back please.

Good luck,
UB

hey ub i harvested one of the plants i transplanted while in flower and popped the root ball out and it was very well intact roots were abundent, but i dont think they are as abundent as they would have been if they werent transplanted in flower and were in veg but it seemed to be fine on my plants. im sure it effected growth time and yeild just a lil bit though. but any way here is what it looked like. i will take a pic of the other ones roots in 6 days when she is down


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## Danthebull (Apr 25, 2010)

Hey Uncle Ben!!!!

Just thought i would upload a picture of what can happen if your AC unit fail's and the temp's reach 38 DC, Just happened to me ( bummed out ) So that everyone can see a clear picture of the damage...

Description..... High temp's, for prolonged period of time. Moisture loss from top leaves. Leaves turn yellow/brown and roll up/down at tip. Become crispy over a few day's after high temp's and the damage to the leaves affected is permanent. New leave growth not affected...

So make sure your maintaining your equipment guy/gall's....

Danny


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## ArtBeast (Apr 27, 2010)

Help my aeroponic/NFT has gone without water for approximately 24 hrs and everything is looking really sad (the leaves are all vertical) but everything is still moist. is there anything i can do to help them? new water? lower my ppm? any water treatments? I just restocked the res with 1500 ppm and ph'd the water any info would be awesome! thanks to anyone who responds


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 27, 2010)

You can give them water and pray.

BTW, I'm not really up for posting until the bugs get worked out.

cya,
Ben


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## Murfy (Apr 27, 2010)

come on unc it's not really that bad rolli' got most of 'em

i miss your insight it's like a daily treasure map, and has certainly made myself and my garden better!


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## valhalla88 (Apr 27, 2010)

_*my stems are purple but*_ ...
my buds are, IMO nice and thick! 
I am happy with my first grow...I never checked the ph or followed a schedule.
I probably could have achieved better results had I gone all _*scientific*_ on her...like a friend said though... this plant was around alot longer then the microscope ...and people knew when she was done then . anyway someone also told me "quick check your ph because super problems are coming"...how ???she is almost ready to harvest it's been flowering since feb24th?
Uncle Ben PLEASE take a look!


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## the420projeckt (Apr 29, 2010)

hi i just started growing and i have 3 week old clones growing in my grow tent one strain which is the super silver haze had two leaves turn yellow and drie up and eventually die is that normal? how can i prevent leaves from dying? I have 6 different strains under a 400 watt hps light. couple inches high from the plants. most of them are ten inches high now after three weeks from clones. is that normal? i will start using fox farm's grow big for the next watering which i do every three days. will its help? is there anything i need to know? i just started this projeckt three weeks ago buying clones from the club in oakland, ca. any tips are welcome. i was wondering how much of a difference in my electric bill will it be if i have one 400 watt hps lighting system and one 100watt t5 florescent system ? will it be over 80$ a month? i know hella questions..lol new to the forum but info is appreiciated. thank you


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## jjfoo (Apr 29, 2010)

420proj,
you'll need to specify the NPK of your fert, what is it?

the light bill will depend on how long you run the lights per 24 hour period and how much your power co charges for a kw hour, it should be on your bill


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## scrblaze333 (Apr 29, 2010)

dang cant even answer that many questions lol


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## scrblaze333 (Apr 29, 2010)

and if you have gone so far without checking ur ph then dont worry bout it


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## jamesc8388 (May 4, 2010)

Hey that really helps a lot. I just was wondering if you could go to my profile and take a look at my plants and see if you know the problem. I think I over fertilized my babies? From reading your blog I am almost positive.


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## jamesc8388 (May 5, 2010)

Trying to figure out if I lock up the roots. My plants started to turn yellow. The picture with two plants the one one the left is fine but the one one the right turned yellow and bud stopped growing? Any tips?


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## jjfoo (May 5, 2010)

James,

What is their history? What was the NPK and EC of the last several fertilizings?


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## jamesc8388 (May 5, 2010)

I am using fox farm ferts. The problem started in veg and kepted going though to now. What do you mean by history?


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## riddleme (May 5, 2010)

jamesc8388 said:


> I am using fox farm ferts. The problem started in veg and kepted going though to now. What do you mean by history?


So feed em a dose of grow big, they want N your in the wrong thread uncle Ben has a thread about this problem, here

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/158144-never-ending-abuse-phosphorous-bloom.html

you came to the right person, just the wrong thread


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## jamesc8388 (May 6, 2010)

Where is the right thread. So are they saveable or are they going to stay that small now? How do i get to uncle ben thread?


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## riddleme (May 6, 2010)

jamesc8388 said:


> Where is the right thread. So are they saveable or are they going to stay that small now? How do i get to uncle ben thread?


The link is in my post put your mouse over the middle line


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## jack the beanstalk (May 12, 2010)

Here's a moisture stress question I have never learned the answer to. When something happens, say overfert and you see the symptoms, should you wait until the plant dries out to flush it or flush immediately. I want to say immediately but it seems like if you let it half dry in the solution before realizing your mistake you might just as well let it dry out completely before flushing to avoid drowning the roots. Or in the case of H202 application for root rot, would you wait until the pot dried or just treat it damp and let it dry afterward?


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## Uncle Ben (May 12, 2010)

Flush the pot and watch what happens.


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## Ricky Williams (May 13, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 5. Underwatering - not only is the plant now stressed due to a low supply of adequate moisture, but carbohydrate production has been greatly compromised (screwed up). Step up the watering frequency, and if need be, organic growers may need to soak the pot from the bottom up until moisture levels reach an even consistency throughout the medium especially with mixes that are heavy in peat. If severe, a little surfactant (liquid Ivory dish soap) added to the drench will help return the organics back to a normal moisture retentive state. If the pot feels light to the lift - it&#8217;s time to water. Don&#8217;t wait until the soil pulls away from the sides of the pot or leaves droop before you water.
> Uncle Ben


Uncle B first let me say that I have read alot of your stuff on here including your topping method (that I found very imformative) and all of it is top notch. Myself as well as many others on here really appreciate you taking the time out to help out with the same old newbie questions day after day. You sir are the Mr. Miyagi of Marijuana Cultivation. 

My Problem: My two plants are currently outdoors, extremely undersized and I'm guessing currently suffering from a nitrogen deficiency. Now I have neglected my watering duties over the last couple of weeks so I think that is the major cause of the problem. Well that and I use tap water that has been sitting at room temp for a day or two to water. Have no idea what the ph is?!?

Bottom seedling leaves are very yellow, with the top leaves a very light green. One fan leaf just above the bottom leaves on one of my plants is so yellow and wilted it's about to fall off.

Plants are 9 weeks old and and only about 4-5 inches tall and the biggest set of leaves is maybe 4 inches tip to tip!! They both have about 3 or 4 sets of leaves on them.

They are in 5 gallon pots with Miracle grow organic soil. They currently get about 12-13 hours of sunlight a day with probably 3-4 hours good direct light. Like I said I have been neglecting my watering duties and today when I went out my soil was dry as a bone. I will be watering on a more consistent basis now but I'm not sure that is going to fix my problem.

My question: Is what do I need to do to get my plants back to good health? How bad will this effect my overall yield and quality? Would I be better off to just start over? I don't know. I thought about hitting them with a small amount of nutes every other watering until I get them back up to par. I'm worried about my girls because they are very small and don't seem to be growing just adding new leaves. Now with the yellowing of the leaves and one leaf falling off I don't know what I should do. They deserved much better than what I have given them. Any advice would be appreciated. I wish I had pics but none are available at the moment. Maybe in the future. 

-RW


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## Uncle Ben (May 14, 2010)

Ricky Williams said:


> Uncle B first let me say that I have read alot of your stuff on here including your topping method (that I found very imformative) and all of it is top notch. Myself as well as many others on here really appreciate you taking the time out to help out with the same old newbie questions day after day. You sir are the Mr. Miyagi of Marijuana Cultivation.


Thanks for the kind words, happy to help. 

What's the NPK value of the food you're giving them and the dose?

For starts, they're are in too big a pot. Pot them down to a 1 gallon noting the health of the root system, and, don't forget to water. Pinch off the bottom leaves if they are in bad shape and bury the plant up to the first set of healthy leaves removing the ones below. 

When that soil gets bone dry it's hell to get it back to a moisture retentive state. Watering 3 times with a teaspoon of a surfactant like Ivory Dish Soap in a gallon of water will help or better still, water from the bottom up.

Tap water is fine, don't worry about pH.

Good luck,
UB


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## Ricky Williams (May 14, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Thanks for the kind words, happy to help.
> 
> What's the NPK value of the food you're giving them and the dose?
> 
> ...


Well I haven't given them any food yet because of there size. I was waiting on them to get bigger and they never did. Just added more leaves. There not much bigger than a seedling. 

What do you recomend I give them as far as NPK values?

Anyways since you think they can rebound I will transplant into a 1 gallon pot and try the dish soap method since I have know way to water from the bottom up considering where the plants are. I will take a look at the root system when I do this. Thanks for the advice!! I will check back with a update.


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## Uncle Ben (May 14, 2010)

Ricky Williams said:


> Well I haven't given them any food yet because of there size. I was waiting on them to get bigger and they never did. Just added more leaves. There not much bigger than a seedling.
> 
> What do you recomend I give them as far as NPK values?
> 
> Anyways since you think they can rebound I will transplant into a 1 gallon pot and try the dish soap method since I have know way to water from the bottom up considering where the plants are. I will take a look at the root system when I do this. Thanks for the advice!! I will check back with a update.


Take a potted plant, put it in a tub, run water into the tub (not the pot) and when you see water rising in the pot, you're done - there will be no more dry channels or spots. Moot point if you pot into fresh, moist soil.

Try a 20-20-20, or a 9-3-6, or a 30-10-10. Amount/frequency depends on light, temps, plant needs (size), nutrient charge of the soil, etc. If your new growth is the same size or smaller than the previous growth, you got problems.

UB


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## Ricky Williams (May 15, 2010)

> For starts, they're are in too big a pot. Pot them down to a 1 gallon noting the health of the root system


I forgot to ask why a smaller pot? I thought the bigger the pot the better.


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## Uncle Ben (May 15, 2010)

Ricky Williams said:


> I forgot to ask why a smaller pot? I thought the bigger the pot the better.


Should be obvious. Too big and you'll invite root rot. You need to learn some basic plant culture by getting off the cannabis websites and going to an indoor gardening site, or checking out a book or two from your local library.


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## Ricky Williams (May 15, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Should be obvious. Too big and you'll invite root rot. You need to learn some basic plant culture by getting off the cannabis websites and going to an indoor gardening site, or checking out a book or two from your local library.


OK thanks. I got about 8 books on hold at the library so maybe I can up my IQ a little bit. I'm gonna get where I need to be I just need to respect the plants more than I have been and do some homework. I didn't relize how much of a lame I was until I started having problems. Thanks for all your help UB.


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## dankesthours182 (May 16, 2010)

*sigh* and yet I still fell to over nuting and over/underwatering.


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## i81two (May 16, 2010)

Hey UB,
While were on the subject of nutes and watering, I have been fine tuning my atmosphere in my flower room and it doesnt seem that i can give one of my strains (Papaya, which is an indica) enough nutes. Or thats what im thinking.

temp 78-85 day 65-72 night
rh 40-50%
good venalation
co2 1500 ppm 
h2o temp 65-72 tap that sits out for 3 days min
2 1000w hps per 8' tray
70 gallon rez's at 1 tray 40 gall at the other
GH Flora nutes at 2/3 strength minimum
ppm in veg 1200-1500 with not one single sign of over fert
ppm in flower 1800- higher than meter will read

It seems as though i have multiple deficecies with the papaya but another indica im growing doesnt even blink at this heavy regiment of nutes.

I calibrate my Oakten TDS meter every month so i know its a good reading.

I put any where from 20 to 32 plants in a tray at a time. Im thinking that they are using up the nutes as they need them in different amounts making the rez get unbalanced quickly. So i change rez religously every week. While topping off with correctly nuted water in between.

I still have good yeild but think that if i can keep these things greener they will do even better.

Then there is a sativa that i threw a couple into the tray and these things look like they are fake, they are so green/blue and wavey still growing and budding though. I think to much N maybe.

Check out pics. You will see which plants go with each scenerio. I will post more as needed.


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## Uncle Ben (May 16, 2010)

i81two said:


> Hey UB,
> While were on the subject of nutes and watering, I have been fine tuning my atmosphere in my flower room and it doesnt seem that i can give one of my strains (Papaya, which is an indica) enough nutes. Or thats what im thinking.
> 
> temp 78-85 day 65-72 night
> ...


Sorry, but you're asking the wrong guy, I don't do hydro but I'll comment. Couldn't open up your photos thanks to the new forum's issues. If you need them greener, then add more N in the form of UAN if you can get it, or ammonium sulfate or nitrate. GH Flora nutes aint gonna cut it considering they value K over N.


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## i81two (May 16, 2010)

Thanks UB, I will reseach where to get the good stuff. Thanks.

Anyone else want to chime in (and can open the pics) Im all ears.


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## jjfoo (May 16, 2010)

when you say ppm what is your conversion factor? I assume you are really measuring EC. If not are you measuring the nutes and calculating the ppm?

EC is not PPM, it is an estimation and there are several common conversions.


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## i81two (May 16, 2010)

If i had an EC meter i would say what my EC is. Im measuring a ppm of total dissolved solids.

I dont know the conversion i guess. how can a ppm be converted ?

There should be only one amount for a parts per million.


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## bigsourD (May 17, 2010)

i81two said:


> Thanks UB, I will reseach where to get the good stuff. Thanks.
> 
> Anyone else want to chime in (and can open the pics) Im all ears.


Dude really you're plants look over fertilized to me. Those plants look great other than that.


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## letitgrow77 (May 17, 2010)

Any ideas on why one of my plants hasn't shown sex yet while her 2 sisters started showing after the first week of flowering??! They are 54 days old and into the 3rd week of flowering! Any ideas??!


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## jjfoo (May 17, 2010)

i81two said:


> If i had an EC meter i would say what my EC is. Im measuring a ppm of total dissolved solids.
> 
> I dont know the conversion i guess. how can a ppm be converted ?
> 
> There should be only one amount for a parts per million.


Are you calculating the ppm based on ppm of your water and how much nutes you add by volume? I assumed you where using a probe and sticking it in the water. 

My question is how are you getting the ppm? I've always measured EC. My meter has PPM display but it is just the EC times a factor. It isn't actual PPM.


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## DocBud (May 18, 2010)

Hey UB!

What can I say, you've made a believer out of me. I'm using the following, in Fox Farms Ocean Forrest soil, with about 40% perlite:


Please comment and make suggestions. It seems to work very well, but if I can do better, I will.

*Osmocote Plus*

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS 15-9-12
TOTAL NITROGEN (N)**. 15.00%
8.00% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
7.00% Nitrate Nitrogen
AVAILABLE PHOSPHATE (P2O5)**. 9.00%
SOLUBLE POTASH (K2O)**. 12.00%
CALCIUM (Ca)** . 1.90%
MAGNESIUM (Mg)** . 1.40%
0.70% Water Soluble Magnesium
SULFUR (S)** . 4.00%
1.00% Combined Sulfur
BORON (B)**. 0.02%
COPPER (Cu). 0.05%
0.05% Water Soluble Copper
IRON (Fe)**. 0.45%
0.42% Water Soluble Iron
0.03% Chelated Iron
MANGANESE (Mn)**. 0.06%
0.06% Water Soluble Manganese
MOLYBDENUM (Mo)**. 0.02%
ZINC (Zn) . 0.05%
0.019% Water Soluble Zinc**
Derived from: Polymer-coated: ammonium nitrate, ammonium phosphate,
calcium phosphate, potassium sulfate, potassium nitrate, magnesium
sulfate, sodium borate, iron phosphate, iron EDTA, manganese sulfate,
sodium molybdate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate and zinc oxide.
** The nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium, sulfur,
boron, iron, manganese, molybdenum and zinc sources have been
coated to provide 12.7% coated slow-release nitrogen (N), 7.6%
coated slow-release available phosphate (P205 ), 10.2% coated
slow-release soluble potash (K20), 1.6% coated slow-release
calcium (Ca), 1.2% coated slow-release magnesium (Mg), 3.4%
coated slow-release sulfur (S), 0.017% coated slow-release
boron (B), 0.38% coated slow-release iron (Fe), 0.051% coated
slow-release manganese (Mn), 0.017% coated slow-release
molybdenum (Mo) and 0.016% coated slow-release zinc (Zn).


----------



## Uncle Ben (May 19, 2010)

DocBud said:


> Hey UB!
> 
> What can I say, you've made a believer out of me. I'm using the following, in Fox Farms Ocean Forrest soil, with about 40% perlite:
> 
> ...


Looks good to me!


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## HeteMizer (May 20, 2010)

Hi 
could you go to this post and look at my photos of my planets at the bottom of the page and see what you think? Thanks
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/299768-leaves-turning-yellow-then-brown.html


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## riddleme (May 20, 2010)

HeteMizer said:


> Hi
> could you go to this post and look at my photos of my planets at the bottom of the page and see what you think? Thanks
> https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/299768-leaves-turning-yellow-then-brown.html


link does not work


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## DocBud (May 21, 2010)

Another question for you, Uncle Ben:

My tap water PH is about 8.3-8.5. The PPM is usually just over 300.

I'm rather taken by these CRF's, namely the Osmocote Plus which I listed above. The nitrogen sources are about equal between nitrate and ammonia.....so I think it's pretty neutral as far as PH goes.....key words: _ I think._

So, if you were going to mix up a soil to use with the parameters I've given above, what would you put in the mix?

Here's what I've done:

Fox Farms Ocean Forest with about 40% perlite. 
The FF has peat in it, so I figured that would tend to acidify the soil a bit.

Should I bother with lowering the PH of the water? Should I add some dolomitic lime to the soil? 

The plants are growing just fine in this mix....but I'm trying to do an excellent job.....as good as possible.


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## bigsourD (May 21, 2010)

> Should I bother with lowering the PH of the water?


I wouldn't worry about PH as much in soil since soil tends to buffer the PH. Ph'ed water has temporary effect if any on soil from my experience.


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## riddleme (May 21, 2010)

bigsourD said:


> I wouldn't worry about PH as much in soil since soil tends to buffer the PH. Ph'ed water has temporary effect if any on soil from my experience.


and that temp effect does wonders for plant growth


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## Uncle Ben (May 21, 2010)

DocBud said:


> Another question for you, Uncle Ben:
> 
> My tap water PH is about 8.3-8.5. The PPM is usually just over 300.
> 
> ...


I'd add additional peat, some dolomite, etc. BUT, if it aint broke, why do you want to fix it? THAT'S what will get you in trouble, and once in trouble, you're going to be kicking yourself in the seat of your plants forever.

UB


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## DocBud (May 21, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> I'd add additional peat, some dolomite, etc. BUT, if it aint broke, why do you want to fix it? THAT'S what will get you in trouble, and once in trouble, you're going to be kicking yourself in the seat of your plants forever.
> 
> UB


I hear ya about "don't fix it if it ain't broke."
So, if you add peat....which lowers PH and Dolomite....which raises it......does that act like a buffer?

My water is over 8.....so do I need the lime?

I am on the hunt for unusual quality....not just a good grow with good yield, etc. I want something special.


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## Uncle Ben (May 22, 2010)

DocBud said:


> I hear ya about "don't fix it if it ain't broke."
> So, if you add peat....which lowers PH and Dolomite....which raises it......does that act like a buffer?


A little, not much. Soil is a powerful buffer. The effect of your water on pH will have none or very little impact long term. Take the readings and see for yourself.



> I am on the hunt for unusual quality....not just a good grow with good yield, etc. I want something special.


Exactly what I said about my first wife.


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## DocBud (May 22, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> A little, not much. Soil is a powerful buffer. The effect of your water on pH will have none or very little impact long term. Take the readings and see for yourself.
> 
> Exactly what I said about my first wife.


Thanks UB!


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## DobermanGuy (May 22, 2010)

DocBud said:


> My water is over 8.....so do I need the lime?


 Im curious about this. I am currently using RO due to my high ppm in my tap (near 500). As long as the soil has some amendments (peat, etc.) to dial it down (ph), will the high ph/ppm tap be more than sufficient?

DISREGARD--- I forgot that after the fertilizer is added ph is around 5.5. and i use a bit of tap to bring it up to 6 or so.


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## DobermanGuy (May 22, 2010)

UB, do you do a water only in between fertilizing or do you do a lower ratio and fert every watering??? 

I know there's a few who want to know that...well, i do anyways. Hope you don't care about the quote in my sig (I shortened it). Figured id try to assist in your enlightening of the minds.


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## DaveCoulier (May 22, 2010)

DocBud said:


> I hear ya about "don't fix it if it ain't broke."
> So, if you add peat....which lowers PH and Dolomite....which raises it......does that act like a buffer?
> 
> My water is over 8.....so do I need the lime?
> ...


Doc, like UB said the ph of your water will have very little effect on your soils PH. It is the alkalinity of your water that will affect your soil. If you have a very alkaline water source, then using dolomite could actually increase your soils ph too much. If you have a low alkalinity source of water, then using dolomite would help.

Also from your previous post, equal parts ammoniacal nitrogen, and nitrate nitrogen will not give you a neutral ph. It'll actually tend towards the acidic side. Google ammonification, and nitrification to learn more.


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## Phillies420 (May 23, 2010)

Im a new grower and i recently bought halogen lights for my grow room. Is this ok, my plants are growing tall in their first 3 weeks but dont have many leaves below the top. Is this normal?


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## DaveCoulier (May 23, 2010)

Phillies420 said:


> Im a new grower and i recently bought halogen lights for my grow room. Is this ok, my plants are growing tall in their first 3 weeks but dont have many leaves below the top. Is this normal?


No, they are not okay. Halogen/Incandescent light bulbs do not grow plants. Get rid of them, and go buy some CFL's if money is an issue(26 true watts or higher). If you can afford the money go out and buy yourself a HID(High Intensity Discharge) set up. A 400w digital setup can be had as low as $150. Maybe a bit lower if you look around.

Also, be careful not to buy incandescent light bulbs that are marketed as "Grow Lamps". Those manufacturers should be punched in the face for selling such bullshit.


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## DobermanGuy (May 23, 2010)

Phillies420 said:


> Im a new grower and i recently bought halogen lights for my grow room. Is this ok, my plants are growing tall in their first 3 weeks but dont have many leaves below the top. Is this normal?


 definately, not to mention you can cook an egg on them... literally. They put out the most heat for such a small light output. Get your money back or put in in the garage.


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## letitgrow77 (May 23, 2010)

Hey uncle Ben! I opened a new thread but noone has been able to help. I have 2 plants from the same strain. They are about 54 days ole and have been flowering for 25 days now. One of the plants showed her sex the first week of flowering, but the second plant hasn't yet..is this normal? Kinda freaking me out! Thanks for any input!!


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## Uncle Ben (May 24, 2010)

DobermanGuy said:


> UB, do you do a water only in between fertilizing or do you do a lower ratio and fert every watering???
> 
> I know there's a few who want to know that...well, i do anyways. Hope you don't care about the quote in my sig (I shortened it). Figured id try to assist in your enlightening of the minds.


If your soil mix is heavy in organics which have a nutrient charge and tend to hold certain ions, then no you don't have to fertilize with every watering. Plants _prefer_ a constant supply of essential elements though.



letitgrow77 said:


> Hey uncle Ben! I opened a new thread but noone has been able to help. I have 2 plants from the same strain. They are about 54 days ole and have been flowering for 25 days now. One of the plants showed her sex the first week of flowering, but the second plant hasn't yet..is this normal? Kinda freaking me out! Thanks for any input!!


Flowering for 25 days and not showing? Something is wrong with your light situation or you got alot of sativa in that mutt.

Good luck,
UB


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## letitgrow77 (May 24, 2010)

I'm on a low budget grow so I have 3- 6500k, 3- 5000k, and 6- 2700k Cfl's. Should I be using only the 2700k?


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## letitgrow77 (May 24, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> If your soil mix is heavy in organics which have a nutrient charge and tend to hold certain ions, then no you don't have to fertilize with every watering. Plants _prefer_ a constant supply of essential elements though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Uncle Ben here are my girls...sorry for the book im about to write but i really need some help, i want to get this right!! They came from some good bagseed, started them off in some really low grade soil then transferred 2 weeks ago into some foxfarm ocean forrest. When i transplanted i used 1 tablespoon per gallon of water of foxfarm bigbloom and watered lightly. I use brita filtered water which sits out for few days or rain water when possible. i think i overwatered them a couple of weeks ago but i would think they would have come back from that already. i have a moisture meter now..My pH levels are around 6.8. Getting really discouraged..they used to look so healthy and happy!!please help guys!!! maybe a nutrient lockout? Mn?


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## Uncle Ben (May 24, 2010)

letitgrow77 said:


> Uncle Ben here are my girls...sorry for the book im about to write but i really need some help, i want to get this right!! They came from some good bagseed, started them off in some really low grade soil then transferred 2 weeks ago into some foxfarm ocean forrest. When i transplanted i used 1 tablespoon per gallon of water of foxfarm bigbloom and watered lightly. I use brita filtered water which sits out for few days or rain water when possible. i think i overwatered them a couple of weeks ago but i would think they would have come back from that already. i have a moisture meter now..My pH levels are around 6.8. Getting really discouraged..they used to look so healthy and happy!!please help guys!!! maybe a nutrient lockout? Mn?


I can't open up those pix but from what I see in the thumbnails, looks like you toasted them with a high K low N food. If the root system was screwed up, they may never come back, only remain stunted or die. Good root health is the foundation of robust plants.

Kelvin color should have no bearing on the flowering response. In fact, based on my experiments, kelvin color has no direct bearing on anything. It does serve as a "new" topic for every new crop of noobs though. 

UB


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## letitgrow77 (May 24, 2010)

lets see if this works..


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## Uncle Ben (May 24, 2010)

Recommend you write them off to experience. They will forever be stunted and not produce. Check for the usual insect damage, high salts issues, overwatering, etc.

Thanks for the nice photos.

Tio


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## letitgrow77 (May 25, 2010)

Ima give them another week, if they don't show signs of improvement then ill give them a proper burial lol. Trail and error! As a noob I paid way too much attention to them


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## DobermanGuy (May 25, 2010)

letitgrow77 said:


> Trail and error! As a noob I paid way too much attention to them


 Thats all it is bud. Learn as you go.


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## letitgrow77 (May 25, 2010)

not having any luck! woke up to this..my 1st LST attempt..


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## drherbalist (May 25, 2010)

So long as the stunting wasn't due to some insect infestation (root/fungus gnats) could the plant still be used for other medical uses? Like a root salve or.... ???


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## DobermanGuy (May 26, 2010)

drherbalist said:


> So long as the stunting wasn't due to some insect infestation (root/fungus gnats) could the plant still be used for other medical uses? Like a root salve or.... ???


 dont think so man. someone else might chime in. cut you losses and get rid of that fella. You dont want any other men aroumd your ladies, do you?


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## drherbalist (May 26, 2010)

But what if it is a female? Is there anything you can use the plant for in terms of ointments, rubs, salves, etc. instead of just throwing it away?


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## DobermanGuy (May 26, 2010)

drherbalist said:


> But what if it is a female? Is there anything you can use the plant for in terms of ointments, rubs, salves, etc. instead of just throwing it away?


 that might be better answered through google, i cant help. You'll have to (should if you want the most THC) wait until pickin time anyways. 
(the pic w/ the finger is a MALE if you are not aware, those sacs/balls are very noticeable, useless except for breeding)


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## FLB (May 26, 2010)

Just finished all 106 pages of this thread. I think you Uncle Ben may be an angel. Your patience is unbelievable, to answer the same questions over and over. Your approach on growing is something I have been searching for a long time. School of no BS, Im enrolled! In fact, if people took this approach to life, there would be alot less drama in this world. Anyways.....just letting you know you are appreciated very much. To take time out of your day to help the new guys shows your true passion for our sacred plant. I was having some problems myself and after reading this thread it all made since what I was doing. Pushing on them too much. Thanks Uncle Ben for all your time here. Much RESPECT!!


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## letitgrow77 (May 26, 2010)

Pushing on them too much. ]
thats where i screwed up!


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## letitgrow77 (May 26, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Recommend you write them off to experience. They will forever be stunted and not produce. Check for the usual insect damage, high salts issues, overwatering, etc.
> 
> Thanks for the nice photos.
> 
> Tio


good afternoon guys! wanted to know if you think a good flushing would help my girls out?


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## Uncle Ben (May 26, 2010)

FLB said:


> Just finished all 106 pages of this thread. I think you Uncle Ben may be an angel. Your patience is unbelievable, to answer the same questions over and over. Your approach on growing is something I have been searching for a long time. School of no BS, Im enrolled! In fact, if people took this approach to life, there would be alot less drama in this world. Anyways.....just letting you know you are appreciated very much. To take time out of your day to help the new guys shows your true passion for our sacred plant. I was having some problems myself and after reading this thread it all made since what I was doing. Pushing on them too much. Thanks Uncle Ben for all your time here. Much RESPECT!!


Thanks for the nice post!

Fellas, you push your plants and they will "settle accounts" with lower yields. Learn patience and moderation.

UB


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## medicalmary (May 27, 2010)

hi ub,

I've read quite a few of your stickies and that copper hydroxide experiment you ran on drugs forum. Good stuff, you know your botany. Got a couple quick questions i would like you to answer.

I have some vanilla kush plants that are showing slight leaf burn because I believe they were over fertilized. I'm being told by some it is a magnesium deficiency and others it is a ph imbalance in the soil (causing lockout) b/c i added flour dolemite lime to correct ph of sunshine #4 mix.
What's really interesting is the slight browning only occurred on the first set of fan leaves coming off the second node 24 hrs after topping. There is one plant that was still developing it's sixth node, so it wasn't topped and it is the only one which is not showing the symptoms. Not scientific, but interesting. Do you think that after topping the redirection of starches and nutrients may caused the browning to be localized to the older growth? Just a theory. Love to know what ya think.

here is a link to the more info.:
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/334440-beginning-something-suspicious-need-help.html

oh yeah, my course of action so far has been to flush all containers. Also, the plants are 3 weeks old. Can salt buildup occur that quickly? They were repotted in 1 gallons about a week and half ago.


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## Uncle Ben (May 27, 2010)

medicalmary said:


> hi ub,
> 
> I've read quite a few of your stickies and that copper hydroxide experiment you ran on drugs forum. Good stuff, you know your botany. Got a couple quick questions i would like you to answer.
> 
> ...


Topping has nothing to do with any imbalances. Salt buildup is gradual based on salts received. If you have them in too large of pots based on their needs, that's not a good thing. 

IOW, I don't have a clue.

UB


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## Jack in the Bud (May 28, 2010)

Uncle Ben,

I've re-read what you posted to start this thread but I'm still just stumped as to what may be causing my current problem. I'm hoping you might take the time to comment on what may be going on.

About half my current crop is effected with this. The other half seems to be doing fine. I've got them in some of that soil mix I made up some more of that you recommended to me last year. The plants are 75 days old (been under 12/12 for the last 10 days). They have had no additional nutrients of any kind and have only been watered with rain water or snow melt.

This problem started showing up 30 days or so a go. At first I thought may be I'd gotten to much blood or bone meal in the mix and it was a little to hot for them. I have given the effected plants several good flushings but it hasn't seemed to have had any positive effects. 

Just the other day I up canned all my females from the 1 gallon pots they'd been in and all the plants seemed to have a good healthy root structure. In fact some of them were bordering on being root bound. Everything was a nice healthy white so I'm pretty sure I haven't been either under or over watering.

I've begun to think I've got some kind of nutrient deficency going on but can't figure out just which ones it might be. It seems the more I read up on the subject the more confused I get.

Any insight you may choose to give me will be greatly appreciated.

Jack


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## DaveCoulier (May 28, 2010)

From that picture, I want to say heat stress. It looks like only the top growth is affected. Whats your lighting setup? Are you using a cool-tube? Have you tried moving the lights up any, or moving the affected plants to different parts of the tent such as the corner?


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## Jack in the Bud (May 28, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> From that picture, I want to say heat stress. It looks like only the top growth is affected. Whats your lighting setup? Are you using a cool-tube? Have you tried moving the lights up any, or moving the affected plants to different parts of the tent such as the corner?


Dave,

Thanks for the reply but I really don't think it's heat stress. They're under the same lighting set up I've been using for the past several grows and I've never had this happen before. The temps so far this grow have been in the 65 to 80 range. During past grows during the hot part of summer I've had it stay in the 80 to 90 range for extended periods and haven't seen this happen.

The space (a converted closet) has fresh air continually being pulled thru it by a bathroom "fart-fan" I've installed in the ceiling. And I've got two small 6" fans continually moving the plants around gently. My main light (a 400W MH) has it's own seperate in line duct fan cooling it.

The main differnce (as far as I can tell) between this grow and the last one is that this time I have used nothing but rain or snowmelt for watering.

Jack


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## gazza255 (May 28, 2010)

View attachment 962641View attachment 962642View attachment 962643View attachment 962644ok lets see if anyone knows whats up with my plants!ive been in flower now for 4 days and everywere were my flowers are forming my leafs are narrow and curling under like a claw quite bad,im guna put some pics up an see if you no what im doing wrong,,my temps are 26 degrees and moisture is fine..all other leafs are fine and the plants look real healthy its just the leafs what are growing were the buds are forming..thanks in advance


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## DocBud (May 28, 2010)

gazza255 said:


> View attachment 962641View attachment 962642View attachment 962643View attachment 962644ok lets see if anyone knows whats up with my plants!ive been in flower now for 4 days and everywere were my flowers are forming my leafs are narrow and curling under like a claw quite bad,im guna put some pics up an see if you no what im doing wrong,,my temps are 26 degrees and moisture is fine..all other leafs are fine and the plants look real healthy its just the leafs what are growing were the buds are forming..thanks in advance


it looks to me like they have been over fertilized. Back off on the nutes for a while until the new growth looks normal.


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## gazza255 (May 28, 2010)

DocBud said:


> it looks to me like they have been over fertilized. Back off on the nutes for a while until the new growth looks normal.


thanks for your input man,,by the way i dont have any nute burn like yellowing or anything its just the leafs curling right under.will the leafs come back as there ment to be or will they stay like they are...thanks man


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## DaveCoulier (May 28, 2010)

gazza255 said:


> thanks for your input man,,by the way i dont have any nute burn like yellowing or anything its just the leafs curling right under.will the leafs come back as there ment to be or will they stay like they are...thanks man


Excessive nutrients can manifest itself in more ways than just the tips of the leaves being burned. The claw is usually a sign of too much nutrients in the root zone. I had some sativas I grew last grow that had clawing near the top, and things became better when I cut back on their nutes.


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## gazza255 (May 28, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Excessive nutrients can manifest itself in more ways than just the tips of the leaves being burned. The claw is usually a sign of too much nutrients in the root zone. I had some sativas I grew last grow that had clawing near the top, and things became better when I cut back on their nutes.


thanks for your input mate,i have 4 plants of the same strain blue cheese,2 of the plants are in 10litre pots and the other 2 are in 25litre pots,,its the 2 plants in the 10litre pots im having trouble with,im feeding them 2litre per day using canna a+b nutes with some bud blood,the ones in the 25litre pots get 3litre a day but there healthy and nothing at all is wrong with them,im prety sure this leaf curling on my 2 plants stared when i went in to flower only 4days ago because before that they was fine.thanks man


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## jjfoo (May 28, 2010)

Dave,

I had some plants in soil (first soil grow) that was amended before hand (sub's super soil). The plants ended up yellow and clawed. Did they maybe get too much nutes at one time to yellow but too much at another time to claw? I had the super soil on the bottom 1/4 of the pot and some good potting soil on top.

The plants that had the most clawing had really poor bud development.


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## DaveCoulier (May 28, 2010)

jjfoo said:


> Dave,
> 
> I had some plants in soil (first soil grow) that was amended before hand (sub's super soil). The plants ended up yellow and clawed. Did they maybe get too much nutes at one time to yellow but too much at another time to claw? I had the super soil on the bottom 1/4 of the pot and some good potting soil on top.
> 
> The plants that had the most clawing had really poor bud development.


You know, you got me thinking why one symptom of an excessive element will show, but not both at times, or one over the other. Just about every thread ive read about leaf clawing is excessive N, but we should be getting leaf scorch if that was true, but then I read that its *Urea, or urine that easily causes leaf scorch. Also, a lack of */**potassium will cause leaf scorch as well, so we could get leaf clawing without scorching if we had adequate potassium levels. Theres a lot of ways why symptoms will manifest in one way versus another. Im not at all learned enough to be able to say why *X* is happening over *Y *or how excessive elements affect other elements, but when I do see the leaves begin to claw, wilt, or become chlorotic, I can usually figure out what is *likely *to be the culprit. As long as you can recognize the whole of the symptoms and know they are caused by *X,* then I probably wouldn't worry about the detailed whos and whys. 

Sources:
*http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20chalker-scott/horticultural%20myths_files/Myths/Leaf%20scorch.pdf
** http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/B1304/B1304.html


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## plebean (May 30, 2010)

Q: If a clone is taken from a plant that has exhibited slowed growth or other stress, will that have any effect on the clone if said clone is grown properly?


----------



## drherbalist (May 30, 2010)

plebean said:


> Q: If a clone is taken from a plant that has exhibited slowed growth or other stress, will that have any effect on the clone if said clone is grown properly?


It is generally not advisable to take a clone from an unhealthy/unstable plant. However, I have had a plant that just got thrashed by a number of issues and so I stabilized it as best as I could, gave it a few days and then took the best cutting. The clone survived with no rooting hormone/gels/powders before planting it. Just a lot of TLC. I still have the Mother which looks like holy hell at this point...though I do see some signs of recovery. She has become more of a research plant at this point on which you can learn A LOT as well.


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## jjfoo (May 30, 2010)

plebean said:


> Q: If a clone is taken from a plant that has exhibited slowed growth or other stress, will that have any effect on the clone if said clone is grown properly?




It depends. If the problem is with the genetics then yes, if the problem is not genetic the clipping will have potential.

Read about phenotype.


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## plebean (May 31, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> You need to learn some basic plant culture by getting off the cannabis websites and going to an indoor gardening site...


He means like this: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/796311/
or this: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/719569/

For those of you who never wander away from the MJ forums, Tapla is UB's brotha from anotha motha. Google "Tapla gardening". The man, like UB, is a master gardener and is widely known on the Interweb as a gardening guru (also like UB).

There are those who say growing good weed is an art. Ahhh, not really. Growing weed into the shape of a giraffe? Maybe. Learn the science and try and adjust to the fact that you're dealing with plant time, not human time. People think they can tinker with plants like they tinker with cars. EVERYONE finds out sooner or later that it doesn't work that way. Think about all the ways we talk about our plants: BOOST, PUMP, HIT'EM, JUICE, KICK, INJECT, FLUSH, SUPE, JUMPSTART...and so on and so forth. 

This is a uniquely American phenomenon, to treat any and all additive as discreet, distilled, concentrated..............PILL!! Vitamins, performance supplements, food, car tuning, pharmaceuticals, hair restoration, fake boobs, fake tans, third-world babies. Sorry, but despite what AN, FF, GH, Canna, Oprah, Big Pharm, and everyone else tells you, there's no single purchase you can make that is going to give you killer cannabis or a better relationship with your wife or more respect from your peers.

Stay educated, stay suspicious, and consider the source. Or else you'll lose the one weapon you have, your mind. Remember that when UB or Dave tells you to go do some research, because if you're just looking for some EASYBIGDICK pill, I hear Cialis is giving out free samples.


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## DaveCoulier (May 31, 2010)

plebean said:


> He means like this: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/796311/
> or this: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/719569/
> 
> For those of you who never wander away from the MJ forums, Tapla is UB's brotha from anotha motha. Google "Tapla gardening". The man, like UB, is a master gardener and is widely known on the Interweb as a gardening guru (also like UB).
> ...


I never knew Tapla posted outside of gardenweb's forum. Ill read those links you provided later. I love reading Taplas posts. Everyone here would learn alot by reading some of his stuff. His knowledge isn't "tainted" by the marijuana myths and urban legends. Just true, no-nonsense knowledge that will improve anybodies gardens here.


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## plebean (May 31, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> I never knew Tapla posted outside of gardenweb's forum.


Yeah, he's about as prolific as UB is. He was accidentally banned from GW for a couple of weeks and you should have seen the outcry from all the members of GW asking for his return. We should all be grateful to have such tremendous resources as UB/Tapla at our disposal, all for free too I might add! Dave, if you're a fan of Tapla/Al, then I'm sure you've read those posts before. The really important stuff gets reissued/reiterated quite a bit. I realized that I should have titled them for easier forum search. So here they are again, this time under GW and titled:

Container Soils & Water Retention
Fertilizer Program for Containerized Plants


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## DaveCoulier (May 31, 2010)

plebean said:


> Yeah, he's about as prolific as UB is. He was accidentally banned from GW for a couple of weeks and you should have seen the outcry from all the members of GW asking for his return. We should all be grateful to have such tremendous resources as UB/Tapla at our disposal, all for free too I might add! Dave, if you're a fan of Tapla/Al, then I'm sure you've read those posts before. The really important stuff gets reissued/reiterated quite a bit. I realized that I should have titled them for easier forum search. So here they are again, this time under GW and titled:
> 
> Container Soils & Water Retention
> Fertilizer Program for Containerized Plants


Ive read most of what you've supplied, but some of it is new reading material, but its also good to go back and reread the old stuff sometimes to refresh our memories.


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## riptidefever (Jun 9, 2010)

New grower, closet grow in soil 26 seedlings, still have all 26 5 1/2 weeks later, 480 watts, woke up this morning and my smallest plant was curling at the top, the leaves, any advice would be great, love my new hobbie !


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## drherbalist (Jun 9, 2010)

riptidefever said:


> New grower, closet grow in soil 26 seedlings, still have all 26 5 1/2 weeks later, 480 watts, woke up this morning and my smallest plant was curling at the top, the leaves, any advice would be great, love my new hobbie !


What kind of light setup are you using? And how close do you keep your plants to the lights? Also, what kind of soil are you using?


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## sharl (Jun 14, 2010)

i have some questions about a ebb and flo set up and nutes. im stressin and was wondering if anyone was around to help me out. thanks so much


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## DaveCoulier (Jun 14, 2010)

sharl said:


> i have some questions about a ebb and flo set up and nutes. im stressin and was wondering if anyone was around to help me out. thanks so much


It sounds like you are more interested in the hydroponics forum. This isn't the right thread for those type of questions.


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## sharl (Jun 14, 2010)

i thought this was about nute stuff, not just soil. alright


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## DaveCoulier (Jun 14, 2010)

sharl said:


> i thought this was about nute stuff, not just soil. alright


Its about quite a few things at this point. I thought you were asking about hydroponic setups, which UB couldn't help you there. He likes getting his hands dirty ya know. If you got a question about nutrient deficiencies, or nute burn symptoms, etc go for it.


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## ijustgrowGREEN (Jun 15, 2010)

Serious seeds "Chronic" feminized. 1 month into flower. foxfarm nutes and soil by the book. temps at 74 degrees. watering about every 3 days. T5 flouros on top and sides. leaves on the bottom, middle, and top of plant are looking like this and eventually dying. plant looks great otherwise. yellowing, curling, brown spots, then eventually falling off. started happening about 2 weeks into flower and has continued since. 10-20% of leaves on plant look this way. any help? thanks


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## DaveCoulier (Jun 15, 2010)

If it started happening about 2 weeks into flowering, its probably an N deficiency. Are you using Tiger Bloom, and did you switch to that immediately upon entering flowering?


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## DobermanGuy (Jun 15, 2010)

N deficiency for sure, commit this to memory


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## dikiets420 (Jun 16, 2010)

extremely helpful. thank you *uncle ben.*


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## infamousaudey (Jun 16, 2010)

These girls (my first) are outdoor soil about 5 weeks veg. 

We are using foxfarm grow big, and I *think* what I am looking at here is over fert or over watering or both. Every third day. This pic pretty much sums up the rusty curled tips descrip I have seen around, but I haven't been able to find another pic on the forum quite like this. 

Note: I have been kind of being edgy with the water quality last four waterings. I was using RO from my kitchen water filter, but it was getting to be a pain to haul that much water out back so I started using an aerated barrel of tap water which I have been unable to pH test (tester on the way). I know the RO water is spot on so I am switching back to it immediately. New pH tester on the way.

Many thanks in advance.


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## DaveCoulier (Jun 16, 2010)

Looks like some overferting to me. I wouldn't worry so much about the water. I fill up a 55 gallon drum and just scoop out water form it when I need it, and its tap water. My plants look great. I think alot of us will have water thats just fine for growing plants.


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## b2theizzle (Jun 17, 2010)

hi Uncle Ben,
can you please diagnose what is wrong with my plants. my pics are here:
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/340664-yellow-new-buds.html#post4292813
Any advice is truly appreciated


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## ijustgrowGREEN (Jun 17, 2010)

dave + doberman... yes, i'm using tiger bloom. however, i did not start plant directly on it. i finished veg, water 1 time with only water, then started on 1/4 strength tiger bloom and gradually increased it. i did a bit of research on N deficient plants but found no info on what to do stop it. i'm a month into flower, and the research says not to add N during flower, but that the plant will not yield as much and it will continue to get worse without sufficient N. any suggestions on where to go from here? thanks.


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 17, 2010)

b2theizzle said:


> hi Uncle Ben,
> can you please diagnose what is wrong with my plants. my pics are here:
> https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/340664-yellow-new-buds.html#post4292813
> Any advice is truly appreciated


Sorry, but no I can't. Your photo color renditons are not true, you haven't disclosed everything about your garden, plus I can not open up an image any more in this sorry excuse for a forum.



ijustgrowGREEN said:


> 'm a month into flower, and the research says not to add N during flower, but that the plant will not yield as much and it will continue to get worse without sufficient N. any suggestions on where to go from here? thanks.


Recommend you get a book on general plant culture and learn what makes a plant tick. Fuck "the research". 

UB


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## DaveCoulier (Jun 17, 2010)

ijustgrowGREEN said:


> dave + doberman... yes, i'm using tiger bloom. however, i did not start plant directly on it. i finished veg, water 1 time with only water, then started on 1/4 strength tiger bloom and gradually increased it. i did a bit of research on N deficient plants but found no info on what to do stop it. i'm a month into flower, and the research says not to add N during flower, but that the plant will not yield as much and it will continue to get worse without sufficient N. any suggestions on where to go from here? thanks.


What you have read is complete and utter bullshit. Just another myth perpetuated by ignorant people on MJ forums who know nothing about growing healthy plants. 

To fix your problem, you just give it more N. It wont fix the affected leaves, but the unaffected foliage will remain lush and green. 

The reason you experienced N deficiency is because Tiger Bloom doesn't have enough N in it to maintain healthy foliage. 

If your leaves yellow, fall off, and die, then your plants ability to photosynthesize is reduced. When it is reduced, your yield *then *goes down. 

If you can maintain healthy foliage until harvest, you will have a chance at the largest yield possible. I say chance because there are many variables that affect yield, but healthy foliage is the most important one. 

Give them some Grow Big or any other fertilizer with sufficient N, and you will be on the right track.


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## ijustgrowGREEN (Jun 18, 2010)

Thank you UB and Dave....i will go ahead of give her a dose of grow big and hope that that puts here back on course. i appreaciate the timely, knowledgeable response. Thank you


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 18, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> What you have read is complete and utter bullshit. Just another myth perpetuated by ignorant people on MJ forums who know nothing about growing healthy plants.
> 
> To fix your problem, you just give it more N. It wont fix the affected leaves, but the unaffected foliage will remain lush and green.
> 
> ...


Thanks for saying what I've been saying for years. Guess this ol pHart is just running out of patience after writing long posts on the issue. It's a sad day, but very typical, that the forum masses care more about product hype than the process of photosynthesis.

Tio


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## Danielsgb (Jun 18, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Thanks for saying what I've been saying for years. Guess this ol pHart is just running out of patience after writing long posts on the issue. It's a sad day, but very typical, that the forum masses care more about product hype than the process of photosynthesis.
> 
> Tio


You *are* the voice of reason. I never got why people let their leaves yellow so much. "_yea, but UB. AN's XXXX is great but my leaves are yellowing. Why?"_ Probably shouldn't have spent $100 on it since the High Times ad was "cool". Sorry, just my pre-bowl rant in the morning.
Daniels


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## Murfy (Jun 18, 2010)

don't ask questions.
just read ub's threads and do what it says. the experience of having a nice garden will be the best research that you could do!
you WILL learn the plants after awhile, and even though failing is learning, you won't get far by having a garden that dies a month into bloom every time.


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## DaveCoulier (Jun 18, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Thanks for saying what I've been saying for years. Guess this ol pHart is just running out of patience after writing long posts on the issue. It's a sad day, but very typical, that the forum masses care more about product hype than the process of photosynthesis.
> 
> Tio


Someone else has to take up the torch too . If more people learn the truth and facts, and start educating newbies, then one day the newbies will stop passing on false information. Maybe one day all of us will be free of these dreaded myths and this perpetual cycle, and we'll all be better off.

Oh believe me, I run out of patience too. The mood I am in will dictate what type of response someone gets  I should probably cut and paste responses for certain types of questions instead of typing them out


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 19, 2010)

What I hate is what I perceive to be an extension of the entitlement mindset that is so prevalent in the world. We don't owe anyone anything, they need to take complete responsibility for allowing themselves to be manipulated by vendors and forum parrots who don't know shit from Shinola. 

A newbie needs to do their homework. Sure we're here to help but when it comes down to the nut cutting, it's up to them, it's their garden. Not mine, not yours, their UNIQUE garden. To make it plain and simple, when growing this weed, make sure The Balance (of all cultural factors) is in place, don't force your plants, and just grow 'em like you would a tomato plant.

Having said that, I did a cursory glance at my outdoor "experimental" plants this morning (4 colas with the 2 lower ones very sub-dominant) and am already getting female preflowers on one. These plants literally came back from the dead after being totally fallen over due to a lack of water for a couple of days while I was on vacation.

enuff said.....


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## riddleme (Jun 19, 2010)

nice to see you growing once again, looking forward to the results


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## plebean (Jun 20, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> If more people learn the truth and facts, and start educating newbies, then one day the newbies will stop passing on false information. Maybe one day all of us will be free of these dreaded myths and this perpetual cycle, and we'll all be better off.


Wouldn't that be great?!?! I'm very doubtful tho. Our culture is shifting from language literacy to visual literacy. YouTube is GOD. If someone sees a decent garden on YouTube, they will listen to whatever "they" say works, irregardless of science or common sense. Tons of expectation confirmation going on driven by marketing. Not only must you take over the channel of distribution, but you must also prove the nutrient/supplement suppliers wrong.



Uncle Ben said:


> What I hate is what I perceive to be an extension of the entitlement mindset that is so prevalent in the world. We don't owe anyone anything, they need to take complete responsibility for allowing themselves to be manipulated by vendors and forum parrots who don't know shit from Shinola.


America accounts for 94% of the *world's* lawsuits.


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## DaveCoulier (Jun 20, 2010)

plebean said:


> Wouldn't that be great?!?! I'm very doubtful tho. Our culture is shifting from language literacy to visual literacy. YouTube is GOD. If someone sees a decent garden on YouTube, they will listen to whatever "they" say works, irregardless of science or common sense. Tons of expectation confirmation going on driven by marketing. Not only must you take over the channel of distribution, but you must also prove the nutrient/supplement suppliers wrong.
> 
> 
> America accounts for 94% of the *world's* lawsuits.


Have you ever watched the movie Idiocracy by Mike Judge? He might actually be onto something. There's even some 'gardening' in the movie you'd enjoy.


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## big smoker101 (Jun 21, 2010)

m8 u could of got more bud than that off ur plant i must say it looks real health i found going from 600w light to 1000w light was far better it really gives u that boost do u use canna boost with pk13;14 if u dont try it i just got 17 oz dry off one big bud 19 oz dry off of my kronic 1 plant thats 36 oz two plants


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## big smoker101 (Jun 21, 2010)

pics going up soon


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## plebean (Jun 21, 2010)

Idiocracy is a favorite in my house. Brought to you by Carls Jr.


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## DaveCoulier (Jun 21, 2010)

plebean said:


> Idiocracy is a favorite in my house. Brought to you by Carls Jr.


Someone should make a thread claiming the virtues of using Brawndo. Its got Electrolytes!

I wonder how many people would actually fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1fKzw05Q5A&feature=related

The actors in the scene above could easily be played by stoners who grow weed..


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## nwilliams (Jun 24, 2010)

It is awesome solution about the plant moisture stress which is really meaningful to work on it. I like to gardening but most of the plants of my garden were growing very slowly and now I found the solution that there must be limited fertilisation. There must be limited heat on the plant for the effective and efficient root system which will give a good growth of the plant.


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## Danielsgb (Jun 24, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Someone should make a thread claiming the virtues of using Brawndo. Its got Electrolytes!
> 
> I wonder how many people would actually fall for it hook, line, and sinker.
> 
> ...


The one below you sounds close. 
I love that movie, It's only a matter of time till Cost-Co has degrees
Daniels


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## phenix white (Jun 24, 2010)

Ok today is the 2nd day into her showing her female hairs! but i waterd on saterday then again on monday my problem is this i noticed on my leaves had 2 slices or tears in it...what could have this been? or what did it? please help?


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## bigman4270 (Jun 24, 2010)

phenix white said:


> Ok today is the 2nd day into her showing her female hairs! but i waterd on saterday then again on monday my problem is this i noticed on my leaves had 2 slices or tears in it...what could have this been? or what did it? please help?


Gonna need some pics


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## phenix white (Jun 24, 2010)

ok i think i may have burnt them a lil..i notice that the tips i mean barely though have a yellowish -white to them...hmm theres this tear that apeared over nite.. please help me out help me figure what it is and what to do???


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## gazza255 (Jun 24, 2010)

big smoker101 said:


> m8 u could of got more bud than that off ur plant i must say it looks real health i found going from 600w light to 1000w light was far better it really gives u that boost do u use canna boost with pk13;14 if u dont try it i just got 17 oz dry off one big bud 19 oz dry off of my kronic 1 plant thats 36 oz two plants


WHAT?? lol,im on my first grow using canna a+b for veg,now im 3 and half week in to flower using a+b with pk13/14 and canna boost..when do you start using your pk with canna boost?do you use it right the way threw flower


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## bigman4270 (Jun 25, 2010)

phenix white said:


> View attachment 1010426View attachment 1010424ok i think i may have burnt them a lil..i notice that the tips i mean barely though have a yellowish -whitView attachment 1010423e to them...hmm theres this tear that apeared over nite.. please help me out help me figure what it is and what to do???
> View attachment 1010422


Hey PW, looks like a little niute burn there. Might want to back off on fertilizing them and use just water the next 2 waterings to try and flush out some of the salts. As for the tears, I would watch them close and see if it progresses. Also search for and pests on the top and bottom of the leaves. You can try neem oil or maliathon(spelling?) to treat for insects.

Hope it helped?

Peace

Big


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## phenix white (Jun 25, 2010)

yea i went and bought neem oil diluted it...but i still had gnats coming from the drip runn off tray..so i been slurpin up that water so i dont get root rot or give them a breading ground. i inspected for other pests but thats all i got those gnatss..But there gone again
yea i gave it just its first mollasess/water today..i did however give it a little more fish emulsion /water but just a lil..i think what burned them was i gave them a iron/micro nutes feeding after that they had that burn.. but i noticed today the tips cleard up


bigman4270 said:


> Hey PW, looks like a little niute burn there. Might want to back off on fertilizing them and use just water the next 2 waterings to try and flush out some of the salts. As for the tears, I would watch them close and see if it progresses. Also search for and pests on the top and bottom of the leaves. You can try neem oil or maliathon(spelling?) to treat for insects.
> 
> Hope it helped?
> 
> ...


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## Rusko (Jul 6, 2010)

please inform me of ROOTBOUND??? i think u may have found my problem


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## 7thtoker (Jul 17, 2010)

awesome ty 

uncle ben you rule dude


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## VAPORDAN (Jul 17, 2010)

Uncle ben i am first time grower i have 8 auto flowering plants under a 400 watt and it is 15 inches above i transplanted them 4 days ago to 3 gal containers. The one in the middle is showing leaf curl up bad i use 1/4 strength nuits then recomended i raised the light to 30 inches but the plant still remains curld up i gave her fresh water not a lot, the rest of the laidies look good, they are in a home made box with panda film wrapt around it they get fan air and fresh air, this plant is stressing me out i dont want to go overboard and make it worse thank you very much-- dan


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## GANJAxDUBZ (Jul 28, 2010)

great thread bro good information i was wondering if you could tell me whats wrong my my Ice plant? it has had curling leaves at the tips on practically all the growth new and old looks like the tips of the leaves are pointing down and it has been like this for a good 2 or 3 weeks now i use Roots Organic soil i add no extra nutes i water with distilled water and im growing in a cabinet under a 250watt hps with 2 other plants that are looking fine the Ice is the only one curling. anyways i think its heat stress but wouldnt my other plants be showing signs also? anyways here a pic glad i found this thread


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## lvnv (Jul 29, 2010)

Uncle Ben, I have the conditions to be a prime victim of moisture and heat stress. Humidity is less than 20% and tempuratures are alway 100-110 during the day. I have a raised bed set up with a timed drip system for my watering, but I haven't found a watering frequency that seems quite perfect yet. I have switched between watering every day and every other day for varying lengths as well as watering in both the morning and evening.

Here are my problems:
*I have leaves that are yellowing and dying on the bottom half of my plants. The leaves pictured below in particular have almost all yellowed and fallen off. They come off the main stem and are always directly below nodes that attach to the stem.

*I have leaves that are cupping on the top third or so of a coupe plants

*I have leaves that have rusty edges and tips and necrotic spots

*I have leaves that are crispy and dry feeling at the bottom of some plants


My nutes are Jack's 30-10-10- and 10-30-20. I have always been a pretty light feeder and haven't really fed at all over the last month as I thought some damage might somehow be from nute burn.

Curiously, my leaves started to curl after I took out the house and gave my plants a big flush. Could I maybe have had salt build up on the surface that I flushed into the soil? I know I have hard water.

I have been trying to self-diagnose my problems by reading over the last month but I really need some expert advise. They still seem to be growing at a steady rate but these yellow leaves concern me. Are yellow leaves every normal? I just don't understand why most leaves can look so healthy yet I have some that look unhealthy as could be.


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 30, 2010)

VAPORDAN said:


> Uncle ben i am first time grower i have 8 auto flowering plants under a 400 watt and it is 15 inches above i transplanted them 4 days ago to 3 gal containers. The one in the middle is showing leaf curl up bad i use 1/4 strength nuits then recomended i raised the light to 30 inches but the plant still remains curld up i gave her fresh water not a lot, the rest of the laidies look good, they are in a home made box with panda film wrapt around it they get fan air and fresh air, this plant is stressing me out i dont want to go overboard and make it worse thank you very much-- dan


Being a first time grower suggests you don't have a handle on The Balance, everything it takes to make a plant healthy. Could be from heat, bad root system, don't know. Unless you have a large plant with alot of foliage, a 3 gallon pot will retain too much moisture which can induce root rot.



GANJAxDUBZ said:


> great thread bro good information i was wondering if you could tell me whats wrong my my Ice plant? it has had curling leaves at the tips on practically all the growth new and old looks like the tips of the leaves are pointing down and it has been like this for a good 2 or 3 weeks now i use Roots Organic soil i add no extra nutes i water with distilled water and im growing in a cabinet under a 250watt hps with 2 other plants that are looking fine the Ice is the only one curling. anyways i think its heat stress but wouldnt my other plants be showing signs also? anyways here a pic glad i found this thread


What are the temps? BTW, I hate boxes and cabinets. Too many negatives that go with them.



lvnv said:


> Uncle Ben, I have the conditions to be a prime victim of moisture and heat stress. Humidity is less than 20% and tempuratures are alway 100-110 during the day. I have a raised bed set up with a timed drip system for my watering, but I haven't found a watering frequency that seems quite perfect yet. I have switched between watering every day and every other day for varying lengths as well as watering in both the morning and evening.
> 
> Here are my problems:
> *I have leaves that are yellowing and dying on the bottom half of my plants. The leaves pictured below in particular have almost all yellowed and fallen off. They come off the main stem and are always directly below nodes that attach to the stem.
> ...


Well, I can relate as I too am losing a few leaves and they are not as green as I'd like. "Our" problem is most likely due to insufficient N and improper watering. "Light" feeding doesn't tell me anything, all depends on the soil profile and the amount and frequency of food used. The plant will react to the total salts "it sees", which means the sum of the salts in your water supply, soluble salts in your soil and the salts you manually add. Also, unless you flood that bed, most drip emitters are spotty at best. What's the gal./hr of the emitters, are they PC types (pressure compensating), how many, and where are they placed?

In my case, I'm using a high N encapsulated food and am hitting it once in a while with a high urea 35-5-10 as the leaves are not as dark as I'd like. It's flowering well. The crap soil I mixed up has alot of uncomposted pine which requires more N to feed the bacteria. This bacteria uses N to break down the organic material which deprives the plant. The other reason for my leaf loss is that I don't get around to watering it and when I do it's always showing leaf stress.

I'd check for mites too. If you have ultra low RH and high temps you have the perfect environment for rapid production of mites, guaranteed. About a month ago I drenched my soil with orthene (acephate) and imnocloprid, both systemics for insect and mite control.

Good luck,
UB


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## jpknowmad (Jul 31, 2010)

Uncle Ben,
First, thanks for all that you do for the forum. Second, I have read some of your posts related to spinout and am curious as to what you think of SmartPots? Thanks

Just thought of second question, what do you think of *this fert*?


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 1, 2010)

jpknowmad said:


> Uncle Ben,
> First, thanks for all that you do for the forum. Second, I have read some of your posts related to spinout and am curious as to what you think of SmartPots? Thanks
> 
> Just thought of second question, what do you think of *this fert*?


No experience with Smart Pots. I assume it's the air pruning effect, if so, then your RH has to be fairly low or you won't get the results you want.

Food looks good and the price for 6 lbs. is fair.

Good luck ~


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## GANJAxDUBZ (Aug 1, 2010)

The temps im not too sure about i dont have a thermometer/hygrometer ive been meaning to pick one up but have been puting it off..but as far as an estimate goes i want to say its in the upper 80s low 90s i live in FL so it gets very hot here


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## bob h (Aug 1, 2010)

iv tried to flush but it took along time for the water to drain through, maybe the soil is too compacted, the plant is reasonably fine and seem to be growing alright but dose have burnt areas on some of the leaves, could the plant come right if i just give it water no nutes. is using only a air extractor fan be alright.

please help out mate first time abit lost on what im doing cheers


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 2, 2010)

bob h said:


> iv tried to flush but it took along time for the water to drain through, maybe the soil is too compacted, the plant is reasonably fine and seem to be growing alright but dose have burnt areas on some of the leaves, could the plant come right if i just give it water no nutes. is using only a air extractor fan be alright.
> 
> please help out mate first time abit lost on what im doing cheers


If you have a good size plant with a good root system and plenty of foliage, it shouldn't be a problem. Why is the soil compacted? If you're not familiar with potting techniques, have someone show you or get a book on indoor plant culture.


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## johnvilla (Aug 3, 2010)

you should mention something about leaf cupping due to the plant being rootbound.


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## robbie4door (Aug 6, 2010)

yellow leafs at the bottom outdoor grow nice big 15 gal pots 1st week of flower


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## metroplex (Aug 10, 2010)

Good Day Uncle Ben

hope all is well, been along time since you helped me..... suffering from a little paranoid android syndrome as far as watering my seedlings goes...

would you say this plant needs water, or should i hold off.... thing is the top3 inches seem dry last watering was 150ml almost 2 days ago
pots are 5 inches high 12 cm round
lights are 4x 36 w cool daylight flourexcent tubes
plants are no more than 2 inches from the light source
finally the temps are around 25 degrees 79f
here is a pic


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 11, 2010)

metroplex said:


> Good Day Uncle Ben
> 
> hope all is well, been along time since you helped me..... suffering from a little paranoid android syndrome as far as watering my seedlings goes...
> 
> ...


Hi, I'm not into teaching basic plant culture, but I'll give my 2 cents this time - pot is too big for that seedling. When you water, don't measure....water until you get runoff. Set the fluors almost touching the leaves IF they are regular shop fluors. 

Good luck


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## metroplex (Aug 11, 2010)

your two cents will do thanks UB

tips noted
much appreciated


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## corners (Aug 11, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> It appears that the neem oil product burned them (drew moisture out of the leaf tissue), most likely the carrier was the culprit. Safer Soaps are notorious for doing that, reason why I won't use 'em. The damage has been done, and most likely those leaves will not recover. Might have to put it behind you and focus on the condition of the new growth only. You could always blast them with some distilled or rain water and see if that helps.
> 
> canadiancracker, using hydroton to open up a soil is like dropping a handful of marbles in a big bag of flour. Use vermiculite and perlite to open up your soils and save your money regarding the hydroton. Or if you're skittish about overwatering, use a 1" layer of the hydroton in the bottom of the pot.
> 
> ...


I can back that the safer spray fried some of my leaves


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## riddleme (Aug 12, 2010)

So can I ^^^^^^^


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## warnerwh (Aug 14, 2010)

Uncle Ben I owe you a ton of gratitude. There have been many times I have been puzzled as to what is wrong with my plants (even though I thought I knew sometimes) and what is the proper reaction to retain as much health as possible. You've answered very many questions for me. I've only used GH's 3 part flora series and a little peroxide for some time. Before that I used Peter's but I still have found many ways to get into trouble even keeping things simple. I always wondered why I would need any "extras" so I just ignored all the extra stuff that started filling the shelves over the years. It appears like I'm lucky to have been stubborn. This thread has taught me much of what I have been doing wrong and how to react correctly. I'll be sticking to Dyna-Grow and water. Ph, temps and humidity are in control. Anyway thank you for taking the time to help us. We owe you an awesome party.


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## jjfoo (Aug 15, 2010)

There is a suggestion to add hydroton to the bottom of the pot in a quote from an old post. Why would you add hydroton to the bottom of a pot? Correct me if I'm wrong but water stays in the pot because of surface tension and capillary action, not because lack of hydroton on the bottom.

For a deeper explanation check: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0321395926870.html

Instead of adding something to raise your medium up, consider using a wick to actually lower the perched water table and in doing so fully drain the pot. Having a small wick that comes out a drain hole will give the water a way to run out. It is not staying there becaues it can't find the drain holes, so adding something to the bottom wont do away with the water. There will always be an aculumlation of water as the water tries to climb up the soil and finally succumbs to gravity.


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## riddleme (Aug 15, 2010)

jjfoo said:


> There is a suggestion to add hydroton to the bottom of the pot in a quote from an old post. *Why would you add hydroton to the bottom of a pot?* Correct me if I'm wrong but water stays in the pot because of surface tension and capillary action, not because lack of hydroton on the bottom.
> 
> For a deeper explanation check: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0321395926870.html
> 
> Instead of adding something to raise your medium up, consider using a wick to actually lower the perched water table and in doing so fully drain the pot. Having a small wick that comes out a drain hole will give the water a way to run out. It is not staying there becaues it can't find the drain holes, so adding something to the bottom wont do away with the water. There will always be an aculumlation of water as the water tries to climb up the soil and finally succumbs to gravity.


to keep the soil from compacting at the drain holes and slowing drainage down (or stopping drainage altogether)


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 15, 2010)

warnerwh said:


> Uncle Ben I owe you a ton of gratitude. There have been many times I have been puzzled as to what is wrong with my plants (even though I thought I knew sometimes) and what is the proper reaction to retain as much health as possible. You've answered very many questions for me. I've only used GH's 3 part flora series and a little peroxide for some time. Before that I used Peter's but I still have found many ways to get into trouble even keeping things simple. I always wondered why I would need any "extras" so I just ignored all the extra stuff that started filling the shelves over the years. It appears like I'm lucky to have been stubborn. This thread has taught me much of what I have been doing wrong and how to react correctly. I'll be sticking to Dyna-Grow and water. Ph, temps and humidity are in control. Anyway thank you for taking the time to help us. We owe you an awesome party.


It's the KISS principle!

Have fun,
UB


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## DaveCoulier (Aug 16, 2010)

riddleme said:


> to keep the soil from compacting at the drain holes and slowing drainage down (or stopping drainage altogether)


Would you care to give a more detailed reason as to how clay balls prevent soil compaction at the bottom of the pots? I dont see how they would prevent compaction, as the pore spaces between balls will get full of dirt thanks to compaction from over head watering, as well as break down of soil particles.


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## riddleme (Aug 16, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Would you care to give a more detailed reason as to how clay balls prevent soil compaction at the bottom of the pots? I dont see how they would prevent compaction, as the pore spaces between balls will get full of dirt thanks to compaction from over head watering, as well as break down of soil particles.


well my experience has been that I never have a drainage problem, so I do it and I also mix the balls in with the medium instead of perlite
don't think it stops compaction but does seem to keep the drainage holes clear and functional


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## DaveCoulier (Aug 16, 2010)

riddleme said:


> well my experience has been that I never have a drainage problem, so I do it and I also mix the balls in with the medium instead of perlite
> don't think it stops compaction but does seem to keep the drainage holes clear and functional


Just because you have never had a drainage problem, doesn't necessarily mean the hydroton actually improved the situation. We humans have a bad habit of seeing a connection between *X *and *Y *when there is no such connection. 

Im not sure hydroton in your soil would help either. Its too large. They'll just get swallowed up by the smaller soil particles, and wont really improve drainage in anyway I can see. 

Did you read the article from Tapla before?


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## riddleme (Aug 16, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Just because you have never had a drainage problem, doesn't necessarily mean the hydroton actually improved the situation. We humans have a bad habit of seeing a connection between *X *and *Y *when there is no such connection.
> 
> Im not sure hydroton in your soil would help either. Its too large. They'll just get swallowed up by the smaller soil particles, and wont really improve drainage in anyway I can see.
> 
> *Did you read the article from Tapla before*?


not about hydrotron? I got the idea from Big Mike (hate to mention him here) from his PH Manifesto plus he has a video of plants being grown in the sunshine mix #4 with hydrotron, I also (having read it) did a lot of research on calcined clay, it has many benefits, why I do it (my ditty on it is in my Riddleme's Nuggets) hell I'm transplantin em now into it

And not argueing, as I have no research on putting 2 inches of hydrotron in the bottom of the pot, I just do it and since I have had no problems I keep doing it, I think that is the X = Y for me???


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## DaveCoulier (Aug 16, 2010)

riddleme said:


> not about hydrotron? I got the idea from Big Mike (hate to mention him here) from his PH Manifesto plus he has a video of plants being grown in the sunshine mix #4 with hydrotron, I also (having read it) did a lot of research on calcined clay, it has many benefits, why I do it (my ditty on it is in my Riddleme's Nuggets) hell I'm transplantin em now into it
> 
> And not argueing, as I have no research on putting 2 inches of hydrotron in the bottom of the pot, I just do it and since I have had no problems I keep doing it, I think that is the X = Y for me???



If you have read Taplas _Container soils and water in containers, _then you would know why putting the balls there wouldn't help any, and I do think X=Y is true for you in this case. We've all falsely attributed results to an action, and sometimes it can take awhile to see around that big elephant to the truth.

Besides, why use hydroton at the bottom, when there are better setups available? Fabric bags are great for increasing root mass, and your missing out on a lot of space for them to be root pruned by blocking off the bottom of the container.


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## riddleme (Aug 16, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> If you have read Taplas _Container soils and water in containers, _then you would know why putting the balls there wouldn't help any, and I do think X=Y is true for you in this case. We've all falsely attributed results to an action, and sometimes it can take awhile to see around that big elephant to the truth.
> 
> Besides, why use hydroton at the bottom, when there are better setups available? Fabric bags are great for increasing root mass, and your missing out on a lot of space for them to be root pruned by blocking off the bottom of the container.


Thanks for the info I'll be checkin it out


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## jjfoo (Aug 16, 2010)

riddleme said:


> to keep the soil from compacting at the drain holes and slowing drainage down (or stopping drainage altogether)



First off, your soil shouldn't compact in the time it takes a plant to flower and veg, if so I would not fix it my adding stuff but rather using soil that doesn't compact in the time frame that it will be used. Have you read the stuff on gardenweb from Al Tapla? He makes some really good points on why doing this is not necessary and can actually slow drainage. I know it seems to make sense but the science behind it seems to indicate other wise. Did you see the supporting info I provided in the link?

I dont' think it is about holes not getting blocked but rather about capilary action and surface tension holding the water near the bottom.

I share Tapla's view that this is a common error based on myth. I had an argument with a guy (in person) about this and offered to do some actual measurements in the sink, but he said 'no, I *know* the hydroton helps'. Hard to argue with that...

Can you point me to someone who has measured this (unless you have). I am assuming that you have never actually measured this but are taking someones word for it. I'd like some type of scientific explanation to better understand your idea.


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## jjfoo (Aug 16, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Fabric bags are great for increasing root mass, and your missing out on a lot of space for them to be root pruned by blocking off the bottom of the container.


Have you seen any improvements with fabric bags? I've used smart pots (fabric pots) and they seem to work the same as my regular pots. Maybe, I'm not seeing the improvement because I am using too much medium in general. If I use more smart pots I'll probably using the as the final location. I hate transplant out of them. I usually have to unroll the pot instead of just popping out the root ball with plastic.


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## riddleme (Aug 16, 2010)

jjfoo said:


> First off, your soil shouldn't compact in the time it takes a plant to flower and veg, if so I would not fix it my adding stuff but rather using soil that doesn't compact in the time frame that it will be used. Have you read the stuff on gardenweb from Al Tapla? He makes some really good points on why doing this is not necessary and can actually slow drainage. I know it seems to make sense but the science behind it seems to indicate other wise. Did you see the supporting info I provided in the link?
> 
> I dont' think it is about holes not getting blocked but rather about capilary action and surface tension holding the water near the bottom.
> 
> ...


well I like to find the truth that a myth is born from and I can find a lot of regular garden forums that say to do this, such as this one



> Putting rocks or gravel, or broken pottery or popcorn styrofoam in the bottom of pots is needed to assist with drainage. Especially if the pot does not have any drainage holes in it. Very few plants like to sit in standing water, unless they are bog plants. Because the plants are not in the ground, where water can just seep away if there is too much, the rock keeps a bit of space open for the water to seep to if the soil is too wet.
> 
> To actually make this work more efficiently, you might try putting a coffee filter, old nylon stocking or something pourous between the drainage material and the soil. This prevents all the soil washing into the rock and filling up all your drainage so there is no where for the water to go.
> 
> ...


but the truth is that it is recommended for pots that do not have drain holes, to prvent the roots from sitting in water and rotting

Hydrotron mixed in soil is a good thing as it retains water like perlite and adds sulfer (slowly like dolomite)


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## DaveCoulier (Aug 16, 2010)

riddleme said:


> well I like to find the truth that a myth is born from and I can find a lot of regular garden forums that say to do this, such as this one
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's alot of misinformation out there. We only need to look at the threads/posts on any mj forum to see that. 

Putting drainage layers in pots without drain holes will still not prevent root rot. All the drainage layer does is raise the perched water table higher in the pot, and well water isn't going to drain from that area into the drainage layer because of capillary action is too much for gravity to overcome, and the water stays right where it is. 

Ive got another link you'll appreciate about drainage layers from someone with a PHd in horticulture.

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%20Chalker-Scott/Horticultural%20Myths_files/Myths/Container%20drainage.pdf


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## DaveCoulier (Aug 16, 2010)

jjfoo said:


> Have you seen any improvements with fabric bags? I've used smart pots (fabric pots) and they seem to work the same as my regular pots. Maybe, I'm not seeing the improvement because I am using too much medium in general. If I use more smart pots I'll probably using the as the final location. I hate transplant out of them. I usually have to unroll the pot instead of just popping out the root ball with plastic.


Its hard to say if fabric bags are the main factor in increased growth rate for this grow over previous ones, but I would imagine they played a role. The jump in growth has been too huge for me to not think its played a role. Alot of things need to be dialed in before one can see a growth increase with them. If other things are going wrong, then root pruning bags wont be able to compensate for short comings elsewhere. 

As for transplanting with them, just place the bag into another bag and forget about rolling the bags down. Of course thats not always an option with smart pots because they are so expensive, which is why I use Root Pouch. They work on the same principle, but are made from recycled denim and themselves are biodegradable and only cost me $.37 for a 3 gallon bag that will last about 15 months maybe even longer.


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## Danielsgb (Aug 16, 2010)

I use old pantyhose or landscape fabric. I've always thought the more soil the better.
Daniels


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## robbie4door (Aug 22, 2010)

View attachment 1113890View attachment 1113889View attachment 1113888View attachment 1113887

ben i need your help bad not muck time left outdoors


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## wolftickets500 (Aug 23, 2010)

thats a great post. tons of info. i have been wondering about fusarium wilt i think it could be affecting my plants, current and in the past. i have also had a few friends who had the same thing happen. first all the leaves curl under but they stay green just not as lush green. then all the leaves from the bottom up,along with the flower pistils,trichomes all fall off. its almost as if the plant no longer desires water because it wont grow anymore. not height or girth. its driving me crazy the only way i have defeated it is to streilize all equipment and move to a new location. it also seem as if one plant will infect another.


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## norm666420 (Aug 29, 2010)

not 100% true i live in AZ my plants get full sun for 12 hours a day and my plants are fine and our sun is intense!


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## Friendwithweed (Sep 1, 2010)

Dear Uncle Ben and all enlightened ones

After reading through this entire thread I can say that I have been humbled and feel like a fool for buying into all the hype and snake oil. Your methods make 100% sense and I can't believe how easy it was to believe all the bullshit. You have straightened out things that have confused me for years and now it all clicks easily. I have a new direction for my hobby as well as a new attitude. Peace to all.

GS


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## iburnkush (Sep 2, 2010)

2 of my plants have leaves curling at the tips and one of them has leaves rolling up. the bottom leaves are turning yellow and wilting. i give them a generous amount of water once a day. i dont have a high tech system. just a watering can. now i put miracle grow soil in the with my mixture of soil and it says it feeds for 9 months. i put a few pinches of plant food in every couple watering cans. i beleive that the curling and rolling may be due to over watering or over feeding. how do i tell and what should i do instead??


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 2, 2010)

iburnkush said:


> 2 of my plants have leaves curling at the tips and one of them has leaves rolling up. the bottom leaves are turning yellow and wilting. i give them a generous amount of water once a day. i dont have a high tech system. just a watering can. now i put miracle grow soil in the with my mixture of soil and it says it feeds for 9 months. i put a few pinches of plant food in every couple watering cans. i beleive that the curling and rolling may be due to over watering or over feeding. how do i tell and what should i do instead??


You shouldn't need to water your plants every day unless you A.) have a *very *fast draining soil(unlikely as any soil sold in stores does not fit this criteria), or B.) your plants are quite large and require alot of water. When lower leaves turn yellow and wilt or fall off its often because the plant isnt able to uptake water. This can be caused by under-watering, or over-watering to the point of damaging your roots.

The best way to tell when to water your plants is to look at your lower leaves. If they are a healthy green, and rigid, you are doing a good job and should continue watering as is. If they are limp, yellow, and the soil is still wet, you are likely over-watering. 

The leaf cupping is usually a sign of heat stress. Maybe you should try to back the lights off more. Its hard to know without pictures though. 

Id cut back on the food too, since your soil probably is doing jut fine in feeding your plants.


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## iburnkush (Sep 4, 2010)

thnx man that sounds spot on. i have them outside mostly and i only have a flourecent light wich doesnt get hot at all but i keep them right in the sun so thats prob y thy are cupping. they also have small white spots on the top of the leaves. sun spots for plants???


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 4, 2010)

iburnkush said:


> thnx man that sounds spot on. i have them outside mostly and i only have a flourecent light wich doesnt get hot at all but i keep them right in the sun so thats prob y thy are cupping. they also have small white spots on the top of the leaves. sun spots for plants???


Small white spots on the top of leaves are usually spider mites. I would check the underside of the leaves with a pocket scope to verify. At the very least google spider mites and check out some pictures to see if its the same.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 5, 2010)

Friendwithweed said:


> Dear Uncle Ben and all enlightened ones
> 
> After reading through this entire thread I can say that I have been humbled and feel like a fool for buying into all the hype and snake oil. Your methods make 100% sense and I can't believe how easy it was to believe all the bullshit. You have straightened out things that have confused me for years and now it all clicks easily. I have a new direction for my hobby as well as a new attitude. Peace to all.
> 
> GS


Happens to the best of us. I'd say that 80% of the cannabis biz (and forums) is just plain bullshit. It's all about the money. Empower yourself by learning what makes a plant tick and spend a hour reading this. 
http://www.staugorchidsociety.org/culturewater.htm




iburnkush said:


> 2 of my plants have leaves curling at the tips and one of them has leaves rolling up. the bottom leaves are turning yellow and wilting.


Some kind of stress, could be a dozen different issues or a combo. Sounds like too many salts to me. Oh, did you say how much Miracle Gro" you're giving them? Plants have a saturation point regarding all external influences - light, salts, water, temps, wind, CO2....... It's your job to find out what those saturation points are relative to plant health and The Balance.

UB


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## Danielsgb (Sep 5, 2010)

Hey Uncle Ben, Good to see ya post. Been busy?
Do you have a quick link for some info on the 'Bullshit of Organics' in general? I remember you mentioned something (well many times, I'm pretty sure) about Organic stuff being a big marketing scam. I'm loving that Jack's 20-20-20. Great nute. I sent my newest soil mix to Agri-life and I think it is pretty close to what I wanted. 
Daniels


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 6, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> Hey Uncle Ben, Good to see ya post. Been busy?


Howdy! Yeah, damn busy plus I still don't like the feel of the new site lameout. This place is pretty thin these days.



> Do you have a quick link for some info on the 'Bullshit of Organics' in general? I remember you mentioned something (well many times, I'm pretty sure) about Organic stuff being a big marketing scam. I'm loving that Jack's 20-20-20. Great nute. I sent my newest soil mix to Agri-life and I think it is pretty close to what I wanted.
> Daniels


Sounds like you're on the right track, good on ya. Regarding organics, you really don't know what's in them, and, if they didn't contain chemicals or had the ability to convert into chemicals, they would be useless. Going "organic" just gives one the appearance that you're "cool" or "good" so you can charge 3 times more. Here's a highly respected PhD hit at the organics myths: http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%20Chalker-Scott/Horticultural%20Myths_files/index.html

Yeah, Peters 20-20-20 is a good all around food. High in urea so it's pretty hard to burn your plants.

Good luck!


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## robbie4door (Sep 7, 2010)

ben i need your wisdom 
what do i need/ dont /do help befor the fall
i use botanicare pure blend pro its a 1-4-5 . started that at start of budding 
i add 6 tsp per 5 gall bucket every third watering ( is that enough)
before that i used botonicare pur pro 3-2-4 for veg, on both i added botanicare liquid karma 
.3-.3-.5 for my mac nutriants. the problem started before i changed nutrians and has bothered me for well over a month now
please help 3rd grow i guess still a lot to learn but love the lessons ( all help welcome)


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## riddleme (Sep 7, 2010)

robbie4door said:


> View attachment 1142273View attachment 1142272View attachment 1142271View attachment 1142270View attachment 1142269
> ben i need your wisdom
> what do i need/ dont /do help befor the fall
> i use botanicare pure blend pro its a 1-4-5 . started that at start of budding
> ...


Flush it and feed it some real nutes, good dose of something with N in it


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## robbie4door (Sep 7, 2010)

14 gallon pots thats a lot of water to flush
but got to do it 
how much water do u think


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## riddleme (Sep 7, 2010)

robbie4door said:


> 14 gallon pots thats a lot of water to flush
> but got to do it
> how much water do u think


I'd say a minimum of 20 gallons, 30 would be better


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## robbie4door (Sep 7, 2010)

so just keep dumping all through at once ??


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## riddleme (Sep 7, 2010)

robbie4door said:


> so just keep dumping all through at once ??


yeppers that is why it is called a flush, best to do it before they start flowering at least once, (won't hurt em) 
I flush every time I water so I never worry about salt building up


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## robbie4door (Sep 7, 2010)

Ohh really every watering huh
I'll try that on my next closet grow
ot help with being new sounds like it would help with any over nutrient problems
wicked pissa thanks


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## MrHydro (Sep 9, 2010)

Here are some pics of severe leaf curling.....don't think it's a watering issue....any way to tell what the issue is? Over fert?


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## warnerwh (Sep 10, 2010)

Please ignore.


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## DocBud (Sep 11, 2010)

Questions for Uncle Ben, or other "adult" growers:

I have a new grow space that is on well water. There is a thriving vegetable garden running off this water, but I decided to test it anyways.

Straight out of the tap the pH is around 8 and PPM are between 600 and 700.
Total alkalinity, using a high quality pool test kit, is around 600!

I am worried, using water this alkaline, that I will see too much rise in medium pH over time. I am growing in organic soil that has lots of peat, poops and minerals....and it has been limed to stabilize it.

I'm not trying to pH the water...I'm worried about bicarbonates building up over time and raising the medium pH. This water is very alkaline.

Are my worries unfounded?


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 11, 2010)

DocBud said:


> Questions for Uncle Ben, or other "adult" growers:
> 
> I have a new grow space that is on well water. There is a thriving vegetable garden running off this water, but I decided to test it anyways.
> 
> ...


Adding lime to your soil when you have alkaline water isn't the best idea. I found this website for you. It should help you out. 

http://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/HO/HO-242-W.pdf


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## DocBud (Sep 12, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Adding lime to your soil when you have alkaline water isn't the best idea. I found this website for you. It should help you out.
> 
> http://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/HO/HO-242-W.pdf


I didn't add the lime, it comes that way.
GREAT LINK!

Now, considering my situation, how do you recommend I deal with it?
I can do the following:

Use RO water or a mix of RO and well
Use pH down
treat the soil with suplfur.

I what do you recommend?


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## riddleme (Sep 12, 2010)

DocBud said:


> I didn't add the lime, it comes that way.
> GREAT LINK!
> 
> Now, considering my situation, how do you recommend I deal with it?
> ...


I would run the well water thru a charcol filter (I use Brita) and adjust the PH down (I use Apple Cider Vinegar) I have found that using the brita filter knocks a point off the ph. If you go RO you will need to suppliment Cal/Mag in most cases


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 12, 2010)

Vinegar will lower the alkalinity of your well water. Id give that a try to see how much of an effect it has. If its not enough, then try a mix of ro and well water w/ the vinegar and see how well it works out.


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## DocBud (Sep 12, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Vinegar will lower the alkalinity of your well water. Id give that a try to see how much of an effect it has. If its not enough, then try a mix of ro and well water w/ the vinegar and see how well it works out.


Pretty much what I figured. I was going to mix RO and the well water, and add a bit of phosphoric acid. 
I'll find a mix so I get the minerals at an acceptable level of alkalinity.

I was hoping you guys would say, "Pshaaaw!! Full steam ahead!"


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## hackel (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks for this post. I just found out I have nute burn instead of heat stress.


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## cheesefish (Sep 19, 2010)

thanks for the post, will definately be coming back


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 19, 2010)

DocBud said:


> Pretty much what I figured. I was going to mix RO and the well water, and add a bit of phosphoric acid.
> I'll find a mix so I get the minerals at an acceptable level of alkalinity.
> 
> I was hoping you guys would say, "Pshaaaw!! Full steam ahead!"


Not sure why I didn't think of this earlier, but another way to combat the alkalinity of your water is to use an acidic fertilizer. Ammonical Nitrogen will lower the ph of your soil over time, while Nitrate Nitrogen raises the ph.


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## DocBud (Sep 19, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Not sure why I didn't think of this earlier, but another way to combat the alkalinity of your water is to use an acidic fertilizer. Ammonical Nitrogen will lower the ph of your soil over time, while Nitrate Nitrogen raises the ph.


Yup. I knew that.....but I grow with Osmocote Plus with good soil in some pots, and custom organic soil in others. I don't use WSF's.

I've dealt with the problem by mixing with RO and Ph'ing down to 5.8....that lowers the TA to about 60, which is acceptable.

I would use some sulfur, but I'm not experienced with it, and I really don't want to damage my crop.


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## elkins (Sep 20, 2010)

i hea rya.........


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 20, 2010)

Dave, just posted the same thing about Brita in CountryFarmer's thread. A point reduction is about right especially if high in bi-carbs. Brita filtered water would be perfect regarding his well water.

What I do before planting to drop the soil's pH:

1. Add quite a bit of peat moss,

2. Add granulated sulfur (pastules).

After planting:

1. Add/scratch in peat moss,

2. Add/scratch in about a Tblsp. of powdered sulfur to a 3-5 gallon pot,

3. Use acid foods like azalea, 21-7-7,

4. Use sulfate type salts - ammonium sulfate, iron sulfate, and finally,

5. Don't worry about it unless you can directly attribute some deficiency or imbalance to pH. Cannabis is very pH tolerant contrary to forum "popular' thought.

Run the tests - pH adjusted water does little to adjust the soil's pH on a long term basis. Soil is a powerful buffer.

If you must - an inorganic acid like sulfuric, phosphoric, or nitric is much more stable (effective) than an organic acid like citric. Adding it may (temporarily) change the top 1" or so but what have you got at the bottom of the pot where the majority of your feeder roots are located? A cheap source of sulfuric is battery acid from an auto parts store.

UB


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## DocBud (Sep 20, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Dave, just posted the same thing about Brita in CountryFarmer's thread. A point reduction is about right especially if high in bi-carbs. Brita filtered water would be perfect regarding his well water.
> 
> What I do before planting to drop the soil's pH:
> 
> ...


High UB!

The soil I'm using was mixed up at my last grow location, where the TA wasn't this high. We tested the well water, and everything was OK....but it changed, got a lot harder.
The soil had some lime mixed in, and combined with the very hard water, I was worried.

I really appreciate your comments on sulfur.....I've got some. Shall I go ahead and put a tbsp in each pot? They are 3 gallon pots.

I have the ability to mix with RO without too much trouble....but I really miss being able to crack the hose bib and water with the wand.

The plants are superbly healthy at this time....but I did see signs of stress when using untreated well water. What with the gypsum, epsom salt and lime added to the soil, I think there was just too much.

The new soil has no lime and is peat based....with a good amount of poop. Should be able to handle to water.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 20, 2010)

If the plants are healthy, then what is the issue?


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## DocBud (Sep 20, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> If the plants are healthy, then what is the issue?


Well, they're healthy now....and I'm diluting the well water with RO to get the TA down to about 100. The well water is over 600...not sure how high because I stopped testing it at that point.

I feel that's just too high!

The plants are freakin' gorgeous, and I don't want to change anything.

Next cycle, no lime and I'll add sulfur.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 21, 2010)

DocBud said:


> Well, they're healthy now....and I'm diluting the well water with RO to get the TA down to about 100. The well water is over 600...not sure how high because I stopped testing it at that point.
> 
> I feel that's just too high!
> 
> ...


I'd leave "well" enough alone lol. Plants need plenty of Ca which you can get in dolomite lime. What you need to consider is how much total salts your plants can take before they stress out or there's damage to the roothairs. You need to consider salts in organic/inorganic foods, water, soil nutrient charge, etc.

You are on the right track regarding your water quality. I too have extremely hard well water so I know what you're faced with.


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## MsApple (Sep 23, 2010)

So, I have these plants that well are really my husbands, but I take care of them...I've been gardening since I was like 6yrs old and now I"m 32...so this is my first time with MJ....it's well...pretty awesome! My plants are 2months old...beautiful, huge, green just lovely all around!!! I baby them, I spoil them... I mean seriously, like they love me... well not this week!!! We ran into some major probs! I'm irrate! I notice some stress to the leaves on a few of the plants I start to research and I'm not finding my problem....it's not a pattern I should say... I'm talking to my husband and I say I don't understand it I don't know what's wrong with them, usually I know I can look at them and know and I always get it and the next day they have grown 5 inches.... seriously...people come over and say OMG....like I've seen so many plants and yours are by far the best. I'm not bragging I'm just proud... it's my first time! So I'm standing in the middle of the girls and I"m thinking hard and I'm bending over and I look close and OMG there it is...oh you know what I'm about to say! Those nasty persistant lil mother..... Damn spider mites!!!!! Oh I hate them with passion.... so I get out my sons eyeclops...I know halarious but it is the best toy in the world you can see every inch of that leaf.... it's pretty cool...except when you see a fricking spider run by....oh I will kill them all!!!! So my brain goes into emergency mode! Get em all outta the room... I take the spray we have and we spray and we bathe and we spray.... luckily I had neem oil on hand.... anyways...it was exhausting....so next day I take them out and bathe them again...well mist the leaves and clean them... clean the room...and put them to bed... exhausting... so like 2 days later, I look under the eyeclops again and I see babies...oh I am mad! They are fricking everywhere... I mean lots of them... all my hard work...all the money....all the days and hours of care....are like in jeopardy over these stupid mites... so ohhhh I don't even wanna tell you what has happened... the events up till today are well it could be the difference between the life and death of my babies... we dunked them... yes...I know but we did... I bombed the room... I sprayed my yard, I did everything I possibly could to prevent them from living and still they live!!!! I'm like declaring a war on these mother f****ers.... I put them inside and put them in the spare room... I dunked them in the tub in 90 degree water, it is a sure way to kill mites and eggs but last resort cuz it does do damage to the plant.... and they are not happy with me today! They have had entirely too much water and look upset as hell! I killed all the mites... my plants are still alive... but...not happy and neither is my husband.... or my back! I cleaned the entire room top to bottom, after the bomb... I was up till 6:30 this morning and I was going on 2hrs of sleep and an apple... and like 2 redbulls and a pk of smokes.... some of the new growth was affected and some old.... I turned the soil and I gave it breathing holes... I mean I have seen worse...far worse... I was ready to dig up my hydrangea and ditch it and I thought nope one more try....and I woke up the next day and it was saluting me...seriously it was taller and more green then I ever seen it and I was like holy shit! That's voodoo.... I know for sure my ph is just screwed right now, I tested the soil tonite... I know I have to fix it...but these girls have been in a war for the last week and they are wounded and tired... I can't stress them anymore than I already have... I have faith though... my husband don't...I said no they are still very alive... it's not that bad... seriously...but they're not happy... they don't look lush and lovely like before.... my godzilla grapes are pissed... but they actually are tough bitches... my hitler isn't so happy... my blueberry is just the bottom... the g-13's are like whatever...they barely look harmed except for one... and they're like 7ft tall.... the dairy queens are half and half... a few got it pretty good.... they look water logged.... I have 3 fans on them... and it's like 78 degrees in there... i just can't give any nutrients till they dry out some... it's too risky I think? My white berry was the culprit and she has been quarantined to the outdoors.... and she doesn't have a damn mite on her now... I gave her the shower of her life though.... i think basically I'm just looking at minor leaf damage... but I'm worried about the roots... rotting... is there anything I can do to ensure it won't happen.... any advice would be helpful... this really sucks.... I'm learning as I said its my first time... any positive advice would be nice.....


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## Danielsgb (Sep 23, 2010)

Wish I had more to add or advice. I hope you won. That battle sucks. They took down a Bonsai of mine many years ago. I share that passion of hate. Good Luck
Daniels


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## MsApple (Sep 23, 2010)

thought I'd update....it's not looking good for a couple of my plants...not sure if they will make it! I'm sad! Not sure what to do...my mites are def gone and now my plants are fucked! any advice is appreciated....


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## freethoughexchange (Sep 23, 2010)

MsApple said:


> thought I'd update....it's not looking good for a couple of my plants...not sure if they will make it! I'm sad! Not sure what to do...my mites are def gone and now my plants are fucked! any advice is appreciated....


Your plants have been to hell and back, give them time to recover.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 23, 2010)

Yeah, give them a few days and if you lose them, write it off to experience. For mite control, 3 blasts of water to the leaves 5 days apart or a low dose of malathion is a sure kill.

Good luck,
Uncle Ben


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## MsApple (Sep 24, 2010)

I had that shit in my hand at the damn store....malathion....isn't that shit lethal to plants... like how would you dose it? I mean I don't have to worry bout it now, but maybe for future reference... oh and my plants all have new growth...they have dried up pretty good, so I gave them a lil food, like a quarter of the water and food I usually do and I figured maybe if I wait a lil while later I'll give them a quarter more... don't wanna hurt them no more than they already have!


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## DocBud (Sep 24, 2010)

MsApple said:


> I had that shit in my hand at the damn store....malathion....isn't that shit lethal to plants... like how would you dose it? I mean I don't have to worry bout it now, but maybe for future reference... oh and my plants all have new growth...they have dried up pretty good, so I gave them a lil food, like a quarter of the water and food I usually do and I figured maybe if I wait a lil while later I'll give them a quarter more... don't wanna hurt them no more than they already have!


If Malathion was lethal to plants....UB would not have recommended it. He's a crustly old bastard, who is guilty of many, many sins.....but he's never told anyone to go out and kill their plants.

I knew Malathion was good for white flies....but I did not know it would work on mites. I have some for the veggie garden (use it before the fruit comes out) but I've never considered using it on mites.

Live and learn.


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## riddleme (Sep 24, 2010)

DocBud said:


> If Malathion was lethal to plants....UB would not have recommended it. He's a crustly old bastard, who is guilty of many, many sins.....but he's never told anyone to go out and kill their plants.
> 
> I knew Malathion was good for white flies....but I did not know it would work on mites. I have some for the veggie garden (use it before the fruit comes out) but I've never considered using it on mites.
> 
> Live and learn.


RockyMountainHigh just sprayed his outdoor garden with malathion last week to get rid of mites, it works great, but take precautions, cover your eyes, wear gloves and a breathing mask, shit is danderous


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## MsApple (Sep 24, 2010)

That's what I was saying... I didn't mean he was giving me advice to kill my plants...I heard it works, but this was after the fact... and I didn't mean to plants I meant to me! I was asking...


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## DocBud (Sep 24, 2010)

MsApple said:


> That's what I was saying... I didn't mean he was giving me advice to kill my plants...I heard it works, but this was after the fact... and I didn't mean to plants I meant to me! I was asking...


Ah.....nevermind.


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## DocBud (Sep 25, 2010)

fooshizzle said:


> Uncle Ben:
> 
> What do you think these are the problems with these plants? I'm a noob and not very familiar with diagnosing problems. Is the leaf curling at the tips maybe a slight nutrient overdose? The plants were fed at 1300ppm for the 2nd week on a feed one day water next cycle. This doesn't look like heat stress because the tips of leaves aren't brown. The ppm was dropped down to 900 and I think it fixed the problem. Will the leaves return to normal if the problem is fixed or do you have to watch new growth?
> 
> ...


Hey bro....while waiting for UB to jump in, have you read the first 5 or 6 pages of this thread? The answer is that you over fed them and you have nutrient burn, and there may be some damage from the mites....which are hopefully dead. I doubt they're all dead, however....so be on the lookout.

The good news is that your plants will probably recover if you quit burning them. The new growth will be OK, the damaged leaves will stay that way, but may still photosynthesize a bit.

Try running a bunch of water through the pots with no feed and then feed them with a very weak mixture the next time you water.

BTW, feeding them more than they need doesn't make them grow bigger or faster....quite the opposite.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 25, 2010)

fooshizzle said:


> Uncle Ben:
> 
> What do you think these are the problems with these plants? I'm a noob and not very familiar with diagnosing problems. Is the leaf curling at the tips maybe a slight nutrient overdose? The plants were fed at 1300ppm for the 2nd week on a feed one day water next cycle. This doesn't look like heat stress because the tips of leaves aren't brown. The ppm was dropped down to 900 and I think it fixed the problem. Will the leaves return to normal if the problem is fixed or do you have to watch new growth?
> 
> ...


Docbud is spot on. Old leaves will not return to normal, the damage has been done. Look at new production to see if you're on the right track.

Malathion was designed for plant pest control about 50 years ago. Dangerous to plants? What are they teaching you guys in school or do you feel more comfortable taking "advice" from some forum geek rather than a *knowledgeable* college educated pro, or a farm advisor with a pHd? Want to damage your plant's leaves, keep using organic pesticide like Safer's soap, which is about as caustic as a spray can get. Run a pH test on that stuff, betcha it's around 11.

I've pretty much bathed in malathion using an airblast sprayer commercially and my blood chemistry and health is excellent. Of course I take a quick bath after finishing out about 110 gal. of spray and only spray when the winds are calm but it never fails - I'll come around an end of a row and the wind will kick up just enough to where I catch some of the mist. Malathion is one of the least toxic organophosphates out there. It will degrade into a phosphate within about 5 days so to get the first cycle eggs/larvae you'll need to treat again, in about 5 days. Always add a surfactant or the spray's effectiveness will be lost.

The effectiveness of pesticides, "organic" or conventional is ENTIRELY dependent on the life cycle of your pest. Just as organic has to contain chemicals to be effective, "organic" pesticides must be toxic to be effective, it's all about the 'degree of toxicity' regarding health issues and pest control. 

Timing your sprays is everything. Know when to spray for larvae or adult control and if there are various stages of instars (different types of larvae production) know when that happens and when to treat. 

Pyrethrins, a synthetic nicotinoid, is one of your lowest toxic chemicals to man and fish, found in Spectracide but I don't think it's effective against mites. It's a real ass kicker for all pests, residual is about 10 days...... really the silver bullet for growers. Malathion and kelthane are your best bets for mite control or like a said a strong blast of water to dislodge 'em. Case in point - where my friends lost their tomato plants to mites early this summer (mites thrive under drought and heat conditions), my maters are still going strong (7' tall) thanks to my daily blasts of water which has given me complete mite control. 

Good luck,
UB


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## fooshizzle (Sep 25, 2010)

Thanks for the quick reply! I will not use Safer soap any more. What would you use as a surfactant?
I'm going to plan on using Malathion for my next spray to make sure I get any eggs that hatch. 

What is your technique for spraying the leaves of eggs and mites? How do you prepare the water? And do you spray tops and bottoms of all leaves or just infected leaves?

Thanks for the help.


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## DocBud (Sep 25, 2010)

fooshizzle said:


> Thanks for the quick reply! I will not use Safer soap any more. What would you use as a surfactant?
> I'm going to plan on using Malathion for my next spray to make sure I get any eggs that hatch.
> 
> What is your technique for spraying the leaves of eggs and mites? How do you prepare the water? And do you spray tops and bottoms of all leaves or just infected leaves?
> ...


I've never lost a battle to mites....have had 'em twice, first time due to hot, arid weather. They probably snuck in when I opened the door to the grow room.....the most recent time, 2 weeks ago....because the clones I got were infested.

I've not used Malathion, but I do understand mites.....

A surfactant is nothing more than a detergent and a good safe one to use would be a mild dish soap, or my favorite, Dr. Brunner's Pure Castille Soap. I like the latter because the guy is a total nut-job and if you tell people you use that soap for insect control they get all excited, like you're a good friend to the earth, etc. You just want a few drops per gallon....it helps the water stick to the plants, basically. 

My advice for mites, above and beyond raising humidity, lowering temps and physically dislodging them with water, which not everyone can do with their set up is to get a trio of miticides:

Floramite
Avid
Forbid
Vendex
Judo
Malathion (If UB uses it, it's good enough for me. I got a bottle today.)

Take your pick, just get 3. Try to only use each product once per year, so you don't breed supermites.

Spray the underside of the leaves, preferably when the lights go out. Some of the products will kill adults, juveniles and eggs.....some will not. Read the label carefully. Some have a long residual effect, some not so long....some are translaminar (you can spray the tops of the leaves and it will soak through and kill the hippies on the bottom) others are systemic, others are contact killers.....read the label.

My first choice is always Floramite SC, because of the residual killing effect and the fact that it kills eggs.

Others may have to be spray 5 days later....read the label.

After spraying, I use a Hot Shot No Pest Strip, from Home dePot. less than 10 bucks. Hang one of these in your room and the mites will die....but I really like the knockdown power of the products I mentioned.

Also, the NPS, although supposedly "safe" for humans IF USED PROPERLY, is going to be putting out gas for 4 months, whereas with the sprays, you can put on the mask, spray, and get the hell out for a couple days.

For me, a single spray and NPS has kept the mites from damaging a single leaf beyond repair....I've never come close to losing a crop.

Don't waste your time on lightweight stuff....get the big guns out, take no prisoners, show no mercy.


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## fooshizzle (Sep 25, 2010)

Thank you for the great advise about how to control mites. Im finding that there's to many urban legends spreading around about how to effectively kill mites. I'm going to try the Hot shot no pest strip and Brunner's soap on my maters. I really am trying not to use any ornamental miticide because they are normally not good for people to get around, touch, or injest unless past the half life which still means half of the chemical is still on the plant including when you harvest and touch your veggies. Those chemi's work wonders but I don't think there safe for humans at all. The US has only 15% of all chemicals tested for carcinogens and the research I've done so far says that the ornamental type sprays are called that because their not approved for agricultural use. It may not hurt you right away but will build up in toxicity in your body over time, kinda like mercury. I just get really nervous around commercial chemi's. what's your thoughts?


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## DocBud (Sep 25, 2010)

fooshizzle said:


> Thank you for the great advise about how to control mites. Im finding that there's to many urban legends spreading around about how to effectively kill mites. I'm going to try the Hot shot no pest strip and Brunner's soap on my maters. I really am trying not to use any ornamental miticide because they are normally not good for people to get around, touch, or injest unless past the half life which still means half of the chemical is still on the plant including when you harvest and touch your veggies. Those chemi's work wonders but I don't think there safe for humans at all. The US has only 15% of all chemicals tested for carcinogens and the research I've done so far says that the ornamental type sprays are called that because their not approved for agricultural use. It may not hurt you right away but will build up in toxicity in your body over time, kinda like mercury. I just get really nervous around commercial chemi's. what's your thoughts?


Well, first of all, I recommended the soap as a surfactant....not a miticide. So, please don't use it as a miticide. It won't work that way.

Second.....a product like Floramite doesn't kill all bugs....it won't hurt ladybugs and predator mites. It isn't that dangerous if used correctly. (use it correctly....not 2 weeks before you harvest.)

Also, Malathion has been used for many years on tomatoes.....not dangerous if used properly.

If you're late in flower, you don't want to use chemicals. Use Dr. Doom. You can't taste it, and it won't hurt you. You can use it right up until the day of harvest. The neem oils taste bad, same with horticultural oil.

The main thing is the be vigilant in the garden and catch these bastards fast. If you have mites now.....I guarantee you'll have them again, so you might as well get the good stuff.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 26, 2010)

DocBud has it covered. I use commericial non-ionic surfactants. You can use Ivory dish soap or Hi-Yield Spreader-Sticker.

Mites and other critters can easily be carried in on your clothes.

ALL pesticides and chemicals are tested on animals and labeled according to use and LD-50 toxicity. It's a big game with the EPA, Greenies, etc. too. One labeled product can be the same as the other, the only difference is price and application.


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## SelfSupplied (Sep 26, 2010)

Hey guys, there's a great trove of info in these pages, and I thank you all for that.

I do have a few questions that I didn't see answered--possibly I even over looked them--but perhaps you can help me.

My plants are generally in good health. However, I do occasionally have some lower leaves turning necrotic black on the tips. My plants are in foxfarm ocean forest soil with perlite. They're all between 20-30 inches tall, and under cfl (veg.) I feed them every other watering, and water every other day, unless they look dry then I water that day. My typical feeding is 550ppm of foxfarm growbig @ 6.2ph, about 1900ml for 7 plants. My water definitely does not saturate the entire pot, I focus on the root ball area. I sometimes I will have some drip out the bottom into the trays, but I often worry that I'm not giving them enough water, or maybe too much. How can I know what is the right amount of water for my plants? What is your best guess at the cause of my lower blackened leaves?

Thanks in advance!


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 26, 2010)

I have never seen blackened tips before, so Im at a loss for that. Do you have any pics? If the tips were turning brown and scorched, then you've likely over-fed them. Could you tell me how many ml of FF Growbig/gallon of nutrient solution you use? Im not good with ppm. Also, are you growing Sativas, or Indicas? My sativas I grow generally require less nutrients, and leaf scorching aka nutrient burn happens more easily with them. 

To help you with your watering concerns. I have found the best way to tell if I gave them the right amount of water is to observe the lowest leaves on the plants. If they are healthy, green, and rigid, then they are getting enough water. If they go limp, and become yellow, or scorched, you are under-watering.


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## fooshizzle (Sep 26, 2010)

I'm having a hard time finding information on under watering through all the topics and pages. Can you give me some advise on what signs are you looking for to tell if you under or over watering. My leaves towards the bottom are slightly yellow and the new growth seems a little more yellow than it should. i dont think the leaves are too droopy. oh jeez I just need to take a picture than try to explain this hahaha. I'm using 5 gallon pots, coco, and my maters are about 15", good root ball, and im feeding about 16oz or 1 pint a day, i dont see any water flowing out bottom of pots. I have a moister meter but I'm not sure if its giving me accurate readings. could you give me some advice? 

Thanks
Fooshizzle my nizzle


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## SelfSupplied (Sep 26, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> I have never seen blackened tips before, so Im at a loss for that. Do you have any pics? If the tips were turning brown and scorched, then you've likely over-fed them. Could you tell me how many ml of FF Growbig/gallon of nutrient solution you use? Im not good with ppm. Also, are you growing Sativas, or Indicas? My sativas I grow generally require less nutrients, and leaf scorching aka nutrient burn happens more easily with them.
> 
> To help you with your watering concerns. I have found the best way to tell if I gave them the right amount of water is to observe the lowest leaves on the plants. If they are healthy, green, and rigid, then they are getting enough water. If they go limp, and become yellow, or scorched, you are under-watering.


Good thoughts. Thank you!


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## MsApple (Sep 27, 2010)

Good info to know... I've treated plants for mites before, but it was my dahlias... I did get a hot shot pest strip. Yeah I agree it's all or nothing....those lil bitches are persistant, so you must be as well. I used safer soap at first too and all's it did was make my room smell like donuts! Next time around if I get mites I won't freak out and I'll use the malathion... thanks for the advice.


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## riddleme (Sep 27, 2010)

fooshizzle said:


> I'm having a hard time finding information on under watering through all the topics and pages. Can you give me some advise on what signs are you looking for to tell if you under or over watering. My leaves towards the bottom are slightly yellow and the new growth seems a little more yellow than it should. i dont think the leaves are too droopy. oh jeez I just need to take a picture than try to explain this hahaha. I'm using 5 gallon pots, coco, and my maters are about 15", good root ball, and im feeding about 16oz or 1 pint a day, i dont see any water flowing out bottom of pots. I have a moister meter but I'm not sure if its giving me accurate readings. could you give me some advice?
> 
> Thanks
> Fooshizzle my nizzle


If you over water the leaves droop if you are under watering the stems & leaves droop. The way your watering is very wrong, you need to water till you have "plenty" of run off and then wait till the pot is almost dry to water again. and moisture meters will lead you astray everytime, you really need to learn to read the plant


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 27, 2010)

fooshizzle said:


> I'm having a hard time finding information on under watering through all the topics and pages. Can you give me some advise on what signs are you looking for to tell if you under or over watering. My leaves towards the bottom are slightly yellow and the new growth seems a little more yellow than it should. i dont think the leaves are too droopy. oh jeez I just need to take a picture than try to explain this hahaha. I'm using 5 gallon pots, coco, and my maters are about 15", good root ball, and im feeding about 16oz or 1 pint a day, i dont see any water flowing out bottom of pots. I have a moister meter but I'm not sure if its giving me accurate readings. could you give me some advice?
> 
> Thanks
> Fooshizzle my nizzle


Dave is correct.

Recommend you get a book on Indoor gardening (no, not cannabis) and learn the basics.

Good luck,
UB


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## fooshizzle (Sep 27, 2010)

Thank you for the help


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 27, 2010)

riddleme said:


> If you over water the leaves droop if you are under watering the stems & leaves droop. The way your watering is very wrong, you need to water till you have "plenty" of run off and then wait till the pot is almost dry to water again. and moisture meters will lead you astray everytime, you really need to learn to read the plant


Ive often times read the 'differences' between over-watering and under-watering, but they are actually the same regardless of how the plant is placed under water stress. If the plant can't uptake water for whatever reason we experiences a loss of turgidity in the plants tissues because the plant continues to lose water through respiration, but can't uptake any. It starts with limp leaves, followed by limp stems, and ultimately complete leaf scorching of affected leaves. The leaves will sometimes fall off as well before reaching the scorched stage though. 

The 'differences' imo, just serves to confuse people regarding watering. If we see symptoms of water stress, we've either over-watered, under-watered, or perhaps badly damaged the root system through an over application of nutrients. It is then up to the grower to discern which of these caused the water stress. Examine the soil. Is it wet, or is it dry? Have I been giving my plants too much nutrients either in a single recent dose, or have I been continually doing this?

I have to take point at you blindly saying he is watering very wrongly. A person doesn't always need to maintain run-off to grow healthy plants. Water quality, and fertilizer applications play a key role in whether he needs run-off or not. If he's fertilizing with heavy doses every other watering, then yes watering to the point of a healthy run-off would be required, but even better would be to reduce his dosages so that he doesn't need to flush out excess nutrients with each watering. Give the plant what it needs to maintain vigorous growth and no more, but this requires more frequent fertilization's. 

When you say almost dry? How dry are we talking here? What are the benefits that you see in waiting till the pot is almost dry before watering again?


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## riddleme (Sep 27, 2010)

Not gonna get into a debate about this, I'll just quit posting in this thread, I merely echoed UB's advice on watering

waiting till pot is almost dry aids in a healthier root system 75 to 80% is good


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 27, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Not gonna get into a debate about this, I'll just quit posting in this thread, I merely echoed UB's advice on watering
> 
> waiting till pot is almost dry aids in a healthier root system 75 to 80% is good


I dont want you to quit posting in this thread. I like having you around. You've helped turned this forum into a community. Not many people are able to do that. 

I just dont think anyone should make blanket statements about someones garden without knowing all the variables that are involved. 

I learn more and more each day, and I also learn things I thought were true, or 'ok' for my garden, turned out to be wrong. 

Along the way, Ive focused much of my learning on soil, as that is the base of our plants. If there is something wrong in the soil, then our plant will be greatly affected, so Im trying to achieve perfection when it comes to soil. I haven't reached that level yet, but I have learned things that can benefit others. 

I wont go into any reasons why I think letting soil dry out to 75-80% is bad, but I will give you a link that I know you'll like reading, and it may change your watering habits. Its a great thread by my buddy, whom I mention every now and then. 

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=158911


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## fooshizzle (Sep 27, 2010)

Ok, so I soaked the pots two days ago until I had a little overflow and have not watered since, the top of the soil is still slightly wet. When I watered I used a mild 800ppm solution and the plants averaged 15". I just checked tonight and my tallest plan is 19.5 inches! In two days they grew about 2.5 inches on average and the leaves look darker. I know my nutes were to high but I also think I wasn't watering enough. wow.


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## riddleme (Sep 27, 2010)

fooshizzle said:


> Ok, so I soaked the pots two days ago until I had a little overflow and have not watered since, the top of the soil is still slightly wet. When I watered I used a mild 800ppm solution and the plants averaged 15". I just checked tonight and my tallest plan is 19.5 inches! In two days they grew about 2.5 inches on average and the leaves look darker. I know my nutes were to high but I also think I wasn't watering enough. wow.


Now your seeing what I was talking about, good for you 
if you want more info read the links in my sig


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## riddleme (Sep 27, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> I dont want you to quit posting in this thread. I like having you around. You've helped turned this forum into a community. Not many people are able to do that.
> 
> *I just dont think anyone should make blanket statements about someones garden without knowing all the variables that are involved.
> *
> ...


I agree and I was a bit short, but was at work with limited time, so I apologize. I will read that thread when I get a chance, thanks for the link. It's been a hell of a day


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 27, 2010)

Dont sweat it. I fully understand.

Enjoy the thread. I know you'll really appreciate it. I need to re-read it as well myself. Tons of great info to digest from Secondtry/Gojo.


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## fooshizzle (Sep 28, 2010)

Holy crap. I just finished reading a bunch of your make it rain posts and I think I accidentally "made it rain" on my plants. Now my plants are at 21.5" and I need to feed. So if I'm thinking about this correctly, I will feed tonight enough to fill my whole 5 gallon pot with a mild maybe 800ppm solution, then when do I "Make It Rain" again? I hope I'm understanding this right and I'm afraid I still have a lot of reading to do. First grow excitement woohoo!


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## Danielsgb (Sep 29, 2010)

Well I didn't get the Spider Mites. I'm 2 to 3 weeks from harvest. I used the Doktor Doom Knock Out. Seemed to get them, but they came back. I should have just used the Malathion then, but live and learn.
I have a DR. Doom Fogger I could use tonight at dark, or I have Malathion. Can you water it in, or does it *have* to be sprayed? What do you think, cause I have watered it in on houseplants many times? If I spray it on is a drop or two of Joy in the water enough? I'm not afraid of bringing out the Big Guns to kill these fuckers but inside the two week window makes me ask you Guru's? So do you guys think I should Go Dr. Fogger, spray Mal, or water it in to kill eggs too? Or a combo? I have Neem Oil, but I don't see it helping. Thanks in advance.
Daniels


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## riddleme (Sep 29, 2010)

fooshizzle said:


> Can you take a look at my maters?  Give me a analysis of whats going on. I didn't have a time to feed last night so I'm going to feed tonight before the pots dry out to much. If I'm trying the make it rain technique, how much water should I use and nutes?
> 
> After I feed tonight when should I make it rain again?
> 
> ...


You should discuss making it rain in any of my threads to get your questions answered


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## hookaman (Sep 29, 2010)

ok, im on my first grow and just double potted. When the soils compressed together, water came out of the bottom of the pot its in. She's been thriving, but when I double potted we watered the hell outta it and now 2 days later one of her original leaves turned light brown in the middle and one of the new ones has curled slightly and tanned at the end. However, the other original leaf is like a green percky tit, and all other are also well. Think it may just be double potting shock? Please lemme know this is the 1st grow to make it this far and thrive this much. Its high grade reg, REALLY HIGH GRADE lol. plant is about 6 inches tall. Thanks!


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 29, 2010)

hookaman said:


> ok, im on my first grow and just double potted. When the soils compressed together, water came out of the bottom of the pot its in. She's been thriving, but when I double potted we watered the hell outta it and now 2 days later one of her original leaves turned light brown in the middle and one of the new ones has curled slightly and tanned at the end. However, the other original leaf is like a green percky tit, and all other are also well. Think it may just be double potting shock? Please lemme know this is the 1st grow to make it this far and thrive this much. Its high grade reg, REALLY HIGH GRADE lol. plant is about 6 inches tall. Thanks!


6" tall, double potted? What is that?


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## Danielsgb (Sep 30, 2010)

I dropped the Dr. Doom Fogger last night. I ordered Floramite today too for later. Hope the fogger helps. 
Daniels


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## hookaman (Sep 30, 2010)

double potting is when you transplant a pot into a bigger pot, its in the growing bible


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 30, 2010)

fooshizzle said:


> Uncle Ben,
> can you tell me what you think about my plants? this is my first grow and I'm learning alot. Any advice would be appreciated. This picture was after two day of not watering and right before I feed with 4 pints of 1000ppm per 5 gallon pot.
> View attachment 1185268View attachment 1185272View attachment 1185292


Look like they need more N.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 30, 2010)

hookaman said:


> double potting is when you transplant a pot into a bigger pot, its in the growing bible


When you "upcan", you go from a say.....1 gallon to a 5 gallon. Any other technique is more cannabis forum BS that has little to no merit.

UB


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## hookaman (Sep 30, 2010)

well its went from a starter to a 2 gallon


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## Life Goes On (Oct 2, 2010)

Hey UNC you had mentioned "High Heat - the plant is losing water via it&#8217;s leaves faster than what can be replaced by the root system. The leaf responds by leaf margin cupping or rolling (up or down) in order to conserve moisture. Lower the heat and concentrate on developing a large, robust root system by practicing sound plant culture. An efficient and effective root system will go a long way to prevent heat induced leaf dessication and leaf margin curling by supplying sufficient moisture for good plant health. One short episode of high heat is enough to permanently destroy leaf tissue and cause a general decline in the leaves affected, which often occurs to leaves found at the top of the plant located near HID lamps. The damaged leaf (usually) does not recover, no matter what you do. Bummer in the summer. One can only look to new growth for indications that the problem has been corrected." Well my plants are showing the exact signs you mention however I don't think my heat is to high. My grow room temp runs 70-78 and my Humidity stays pretty constant at about 60-62%. My tallest plant is running about 10 in. below my 400W MH. I do however think that maybe I have been underwatering my plants as they are in a 1 gallon nursery pot and I usually water every 2 to 3 days with about 8oz. of water per pot. I noticed that the soil that is exposed at the bottom of the pot from the drainage holes was not very moist so today I watered with 16oz of water and it was enough to moisten the exposed soil at the base of the pot. So with that being said do you think that it was just an underwatering issue, a heat/overlighting issue or a combination of the two? Is my light too close to the plants being only 10 In. away? I read that if it's too hot on the back of your hand that it's too hot for the plants but when I put my hand just above the plant the heat intensity from the light does not seem to be too hot? Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## MsApple (Oct 2, 2010)

UB???? I gotta question, if you haven't already answered it...I couldn't find it, so anyways, Malathion; I know you use it outdoor on a large area, but I have a small area and it's indoor, ummmm...the label doesnt say marijuana, LOL...so how much do I use, do I treat as a tomato plant, or what...cuz it has like a number of different veggies, fruits and flowers....and they all have different amounts! I don't wanna use too much or not enough.... for tomatoes it says 1-1/2 tsp per gal of H2O? Is it good to use on thripes as well? My friend gave me a purple trainwreck plant last night and she is so pretty, but she has thripes...not so pretty! Do those lil fuckers eat holes in the leaves or do they have a dragging mark? Not sure never dealt with thripes....I hate bad bugs!!!!


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 2, 2010)

Life Goes On said:


> ....however think that maybe I have been underwatering my plants as they are in a 1 gallon nursery pot and I usually water every 2 to 3 days with about 8oz. of water per pot.


If it takes a gallon to throughly wet the pot, then that's what you do. You need to water to the point of a good runoff.



MsApple said:


> UB???? I gotta question, if you haven't already answered it...I couldn't find it, so anyways, Malathion; I know you use it outdoor on a large area, but I have a small area and it's indoor, ummmm...the label doesnt say marijuana, LOL...so how much do I use, do I treat as a tomato plant, or what...cuz it has like a number of different veggies, fruits and flowers....and they all have different amounts! I don't wanna use too much or not enough.... for tomatoes it says 1-1/2 tsp per gal of H2O? Is it good to use on thripes as well? My friend gave me a purple trainwreck plant last night and she is so pretty, but she has thripes...not so pretty! Do those lil fuckers eat holes in the leaves or do they have a dragging mark? Not sure never dealt with thripes....I hate bad bugs!!!!


Follow the label instructions for tomatoes. Malathion is good for mites, thrips, aphids, larvae, mealybugs. After 5 days it is safe for consumption being that it will have decomposed into the phosphate from which is was derived. It's an organophosphate pesticide.


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## MsApple (Oct 2, 2010)

Thank you sir...that was very helpful...


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## Life Goes On (Oct 2, 2010)

Yes thank you UB. I will water to a good runoff from now on. But do you think I should raise my lamp or do you think I was just underwatering?


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 3, 2010)

Beats the helluva me.  Every plant has a light saturation point, find out where and what that point is. You'll know when the chlorophyll starts bleaching out.

Less is more,
UB


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## DaveCoulier (Oct 4, 2010)

Life Goes on, I have plants that are closer than ten inches under 400w MH, and they aren't showing signs of problems. It also depends on your bulb though. Not all bulbs are created equal. Mine is some crappy plantmax mh thats no longer in its prime. I would suggest you get a light meter. Hydrofarm sells a nice one for $30. It'll will be a great help to you. Once you buy it, and start to play with it, you'll wonder why you didn't buy it in the first place. 

As for watering, Id say you were under-watering. I give my plants in one gallon growbags around 32 oz of water, and that is enough to saturate the medium. My plants would never get by on 8 oz of water every 2 or 3 days. After 2 days they have to be watered another 32 oz. Anything beyond that and they will start to show signs of water stress(lower limp, yellow leaves). These are plants full in veg though, and 12-24 inches. If your plants are small then just adjust your watering needs.

I would also suggest to tilt your pots sideways(diagonal) after they stop draining from an even position. This will release more of the water from your perched water table and improve conditions for your roots. 

If your unsure about heat, get an infrared thermometer gun. They can be bought at home depot, or you can find them at some hydro shops(online or not). 

Sorry to be so long winded, but hope it helps.


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## bobek (Oct 5, 2010)

Hi UB

If you have a second to have a look on my little garden.
What do you think about my plants? That's my first grow and I planted RoadRunner automatic from Dinafem. I wonder why there is that much diference in the way they look and on the 1st picture you can see a hole by the edge of one leaf. What could cause it appear? They used to sit under 250 MH, but swapped bulb for HPS yesterday. They are about 15" away from lamp, sometimes closer if temperature is low enough to drop light down. Two plants at the back are 4 weeks old since hit the surface and the 3rd one (in the front row) is 5 days younger. One of older ones is much taller than her "twin"sister, why? Would they be different strain uncorrectly labelled? Thanks for any feedback

Have a green day


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## Hobbes (Oct 5, 2010)

.

Uncle Ben I'm compiling an ebook as a guide for new growers, I'd like to include your plant symptoms and solution guide if you approve. The ebook is for free download and will be made available to caregivers and medical clubs on DVD to be sold as a fundraiser. 

Your symptoms and solution guide is in the Plant Problems chapter, I uploaded it this morning so you could see what it will look like. If you'd like to add pictures or make changes at any time I can update the ebook in a few minutes. If you don't want your work included in the book I can remove it quickly as well.

I've referred to your guide many times and would be honoured if I could include it with the other work. The links are at the bottom of this post.

thanks

Hobbes

.


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## bekindbud (Oct 5, 2010)

Uncle Ben I can only imagine how many questions you get from newbees like me and something I notice is that you answer everyone back and that takes a lot of time out but I yet to read you saying...."Leave me alone" instead you handle all objections and questions. You are more like the....... Growing GOD of Ganja!!!!!! I appreciate reading your threads and they are very formative....I take it that my root system is not doing so good??? Also I guess my plant is suffering from moist stress? I just gave my plant Nuetrients for the first time yesterday but only at 50%, I am using Foxfarm Grow Big...Any help on my baby please let me know. Im growing for my mom, she is very sick and I dont want to screw it up like I am now....Help please....Thanks. UB!!! U are the MAN!!!!!!


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 6, 2010)

bobek said:


> Hi UB
> 
> If you have a second to have a look on my little garden.
> What do you think about my plants? That's my first grow and I planted RoadRunner automatic from Dinafem. I wonder why there is that much diference in the way they look and on the 1st picture you can see a hole by the edge of one leaf. What could cause it appear? They used to sit under 250 MH, but swapped bulb for HPS yesterday. They are about 15" away from lamp, sometimes closer if temperature is low enough to drop light down. Two plants at the back are 4 weeks old since hit the surface and the 3rd one (in the front row) is 5 days younger. One of older ones is much taller than her "twin"sister, why? Would they be different strain uncorrectly labelled? Thanks for any feedback
> ...


Don't know about the hole, most likely a response to some kind of stress, insect damage, etc. Kid with a BB gun? 

Regarding heights, keep in mind that just because it has a name doesn't guarantee squat. The seed vendors are in this only for the money and you're making buying decisions strictly on their ads or hype/anecdotal evidence in forums. See my sig....



Hobbes said:


> .
> 
> Uncle Ben I'm compiling an ebook as a guide for new growers, I'd like to include your plant symptoms and solution guide if you approve. The ebook is for free download and will be made available to caregivers and medical clubs on DVD to be sold as a fundraiser.
> 
> ...


That would be fine, I'd be honored as long as you give me credit. You don't know how many times others have taken my material, stripped the credit and posed it as their own For example: http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-marijuana-growing/215941-never-ending-abuse-phosphorous-enhance-flowering.html

Might wanna add my 4 main cola sticky in Advanced too, to your Training chapter. Since RIU will not let me edit it, and if you want, you could take the first post and I could add a FAQ ditty to answer the most redundant questions.

post edit - I took a quick cursory glance and it really looks nice. I looked at the advice contrary to the popular drill of stripping leaves off - good job! 

The way you handle this is your biz, but if it was mine, I'd take a Mel Franks common sense approach and strip out as much of the pro-cannabis hype as you can. Cannabis should be grown as a regular plant, a "flowering foliage plant" if you will. BTW, if you don't have Mel Franks old Guide, it's still as solid as the first time it was written back in 1982. He was really ahead of his time. Red Eye Press was selling it cheap.

Here's a few links, the first one from Dave:
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%20Chalker-Scott/Horticultural%20Myths_files/index.html

About the best white paper on Plant nutrition I've seen. Long, so I doubt if anyone will read it, but that's their problem.

http://www.staugorchidsociety.org/culturewater.htm

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/quickref/fertilizer/nutri_def.html

Hmmmmm, something just caught my eye in the 3rd link about P: Rapidly "fixed" on soil particles; when applied under acid conditions, fixed with Fe, Mn and Al; under alkaline conditions fixed with Ca; high P interferes with micronutrient and N absorption;_ used in relatively small amounts when compared to N and K;_ availability is lowest in cold soils.

What ahhhhh been preaching. 



bekindbud said:


> Uncle Ben I can only imagine how many questions you get from newbees like me and something I notice is that you answer everyone back and that takes a lot of time out but I yet to read you saying...."Leave me alone" instead you handle all objections and questions.


Well, funny you should post this as I asked some folks to post their growing questions in forums as opposed to PM's. It helps me regarding my time and the input of others is of great benefit. 

BTW Dave, that's some good advice there brudder, as usual!



> You are more like the....... Growing GOD of Ganja!!!!!! I appreciate reading your threads and they are very formative....I take it that my root system is not doing so good??? Also I guess my plant is suffering from moist stress? I just gave my plant Nuetrients for the first time yesterday but only at 50%, I am using Foxfarm Grow Big...Any help on my baby please let me know. Im growing for my mom, she is very sick and I dont want to screw it up like I am now....Help please....Thanks. UB!!! U are the MAN!!!!!!


Feller, without a day to day history of what you're doing, it's anybody's guess what's going on. It's hard to look at a plant's photo and give the correct prognosis, see page one but it's obvious they are subjected to some kind of moisture stress. 

The only SURE way to success is to learn what makes a plant tick. This gardening thingie is all about balancing out all factors involved in growing. 

Good luck,
UB


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## bobek (Oct 6, 2010)

Hi all

Thanks very much Uncle of us all. You are probably very right saying We get not exactly what they tell you do. We'll see what the end produc tdiffernce is .I dont think there are insects in my tent - couldn't find any. Yesterday evening about 4 hours before end of 20 hours bright period I noticed that the tallest plant got his leaves' (those around flowers) "fingers" dropped down. In the morning after dark perion they where up again. But I noticed curly fingers of one of the top leavs (picture) . Would you say it's to close to my 250 HPS or may be nutrient overdose relaited?I gave that plant 1.2litre of watter with 0.8ml of Bio-Grow, 1.5ml Bio-Bloom and 0.5ml TopMax two days ago. I'm not sure If I underwater them or not. They are in about 3 gallons pots. Any info for NOOB from GOD really apreciated.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 6, 2010)

bobek said:


> Hi all.....I'm not sure If I underwater them or not. They are in about 3 gallons pots. Any info for NOOB from GOD really apreciated.
> View attachment 1196497


Dave, this one's yours.


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## Hobbes (Oct 6, 2010)

.

Thanks Uncle Ben. I'll work on your suggestions and incorporate the other material you've offered, then get back to you for suggestions on how I can improve the presentation of your work. I've got your *topping pictorial* uploaded to the Stem Training chapter with links, when you want to upload the FAQ - or if there's anything else that you'd like to contribute - you have a forum full of great info - please let me know and I'll include it in the ebook.

When I use someone else material I link back to the original thread as well as listing the Author - the general idea behind the whole thread is that even the writing that I consider my own is information that I got from someone else post or web site online. I can't think of one thing that I do in my garden that I haven't seen posted at least a dozen times by a dozen people. Some of the most valuable posts for me are the newbies' when they ask a question that I have never thought of and I have to research the answers - which are almost invariably in the forum somewhere.

The Academy is a work in progress, Weed Science is updated almost daily, I'll be organizing each chapter to make reading easier. If there's anything that you notice in my work that need's correcting or anything in the style of posting for your material that you'd like changed, please post in the Grow Lab thread linked below and I'll get to it right away.

Thanks.

Hobbes


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## DaveCoulier (Oct 6, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Dave, this one's yours.


Im not even sure what I am looking at in that picture! How can I help . Ill see what I can do though. 

Thanks for the props on the previous post.I edited it to be more clear about what I meant when turning it sideways. I meant turn the pot diagonal, not lay it on its side. Sorry everyone. 



bobek said:


> Hi all
> 
> Thanks very much Uncle of us all. You are probably very right saying We get not exactly what they tell you do. We'll see what the end produc tdiffernce is .I dont think there are insects in my tent - couldn't find any. Yesterday evening about 4 hours before end of 20 hours bright period I noticed that the tallest plant got his leaves' (those around flowers) "fingers" dropped down. In the morning after dark perion they where up again. But I noticed curly fingers of one of the top leavs (picture) . Would you say it's to close to my 250 HPS or may be nutrient overdose relaited?I gave that plant 1.2litre of watter with 0.8ml of Bio-Grow, 1.5ml Bio-Bloom and 0.5ml TopMax two days ago. I'm not sure If I underwater them or not. They are in about 3 gallons pots. Any info for NOOB from GOD really apreciated.
> View attachment 1196497


Bob, any chance you can get an overhead shot of the affected leaf? 

It wouldn't appear your HPS is too close. The rest of your plant in the pic looks pretty good. I would suggest you get a light meter though. Its a great tool. It will help you better rearrange your plants in your grow tent. 

With regards to nutrient related, I have used Bio-Grow & Bio-Bloom and feel they are mild, and designed to be used with their nutrient rich soil. Your plant is showing a slight touch of yellowing at the tips, which is a precursor to leaf scorching caused by excessive nutrients in the rootzone. Do lower leaves look the same or do they have any scorching at the tips? If lower leaves are scorched, then back off on the nutrients. Its hard to tell you what dosage to use without knowing what type of soil you use. Some are nutrient poor, and designed to be used with heavier doses of fertilizers, while some are the exact opposite. 

I would suggest you use more water though. 1.2l is about 33oz, and I use that much for decent sized plants in one gallon grow bags every two days. I do use a coarser soil thats geared towards drainage/increased air porosity and less water retention, so my water needs are different than yours. If you use a heavy peat or compost based soil it will retain more water, and more care needs to be taken care when watering. Ideally I would like to fully saturate the rootball so all roots come into contact with water, but that could cause problems in soils that retain too much water. If you've read my post on the last page, then you'll already know what to do after watering to reduce your perched water table.


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## bobek (Oct 6, 2010)

Hi guys

I have All-mix BioBizz soil in my pots. @ Dave - I can't see big difference in colour of top and bottom leaves and there is no scorching as well. I threw picture there (overhead) but those 2 scorched-tip fingers of top leaf are better noticable on the picture from previous post. I started to mix 0.3ml of Bio-Grow in 0.5l of watter through week 2 and inreased dose (both nutes and watter) up to 0.8 ml of BioGrow + 1.5 BioBloom + 0.5ml TopMax in 1.2l of watter two days ago (week 4). I'll mix slightly bigger dose of nutes in 2.5l of watter tomorrow. Hope thats good idea and won't hurt my girl. There are another pictures just to compare plants (there are no leaves leaning down on 2 smaller plants).


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## DaveCoulier (Oct 6, 2010)

Judging from that first picture, I wouldn't say you have leaf scorching. They are malformed, but I dont see anything in those pictures that would make me worry. The plants look pretty good. Im also not seeing what I thought were yellow tips in any of those pictures, so I must have been seeing things that were not there, but do keep an eye out for yellow tips, or leaf scorching in the future when increasing nutrient dosages. 

Im not sure if your camera has a white balance setting, but if it does use it for future pictures. Its really hard to get a good idea of how plants look when under HPS for anyone not there with you. 

I looked up All-mix, and it contains alot of peat, and some worm poop, so 2.5l of water may be too much. Do you get any run-off with 1.2L? Observe your plants closely after watering and they will tell you if they like what you are doing. If lower leaves are yellowing, falling off, or becoming completely scorched they're under moisture/water stress. If the lower leaves are green, healthy, and rigid you're doing a good job when it comes to watering and feeding.


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## bobek (Oct 7, 2010)

Hello

Again thanks very much for quick reply. I have never seen watter coming out under my pots. Bearing in mind what you said about All-Mix I gave her 1,5l of watter with more-less the same amount of nutes. I'll post again if I see anything suspicious. God bless helpfull people.

Peace


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## DocBud (Oct 13, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> If lower leaves are yellowing, falling off, or becoming completely scorched they're under moisture/water stress. If the lower leaves are green, healthy, and rigid you're doing a good job when it comes to watering and feeding.


Wow. I just learned something. Overwatering can cause the lower leaves to yellow and fall off? I did not know that. Is this from nitrogen leeching?


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## Life Goes On (Oct 14, 2010)

Hello Unc,

Hey I don't know if you remember or not but I was asking you about possible water or light stress to my plants. Well I've been researching and the more I do the more pictures I run across of leaves that look just like mine that are turning a greyish blackish blueish color and dying off. These sites claim that the plants are running into a Phosphorus and Magnesium deficiency? Do you think this could be the most likely case for me? As I really don't think I am having a light or water stress issue becuase I have raised my lamp and increased water yet the issue persists. If you think that I might have ran into a Phosphorus and Magnesium deficiency what would you do to correct the issue if you were a organic grower? I mean I'll do watever I have to, to correct the issue but I would like to stay as organic as possible. If there is no organic solution or an easier/quicker non-organic fix please let me know what it is. Thanks in advance.


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## carson687 (Oct 14, 2010)

First time grower...72 plants under 6 1000w air cooled lights in 5 gallon buckets with holes. 78 degrees, using a/c, 50% humidity, good air movement, intake 6" fan, outtake 8" fan. room size 16' x 18'. 12/12 lighting. I water everyother day. 3rd week into flowering, plants are around 3' tall. Was having some bug issues (mites), not real bad. Sprayed them with organicide 2 times. Once about 8 days ago and than 5 days ago. Nutes givin is fox farm tiger bloom. 1.5 teaspoons everyother feeding. Than it happend, went to my room and found one of my plants with leaves that u see. The plant is covered with leaves like this about 80% of them. Also alot of other plants have same symtoms but only 2-5% of the leaves. Do u think it is from the bug spray or from over watering. After reading this thread I may have been over watering. I water when the top couple inches is dry but the still have some weight like there is alot of water at the bottom. Sorry so long trying to give good info. Please please please help me......Thanks


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## carson687 (Oct 14, 2010)

First time grower...72 plants under 6 1000w air cooled lights in 5 gallon buckets with holes. 78 degrees, using a/c, 50% humidity, good air movement, intake 6" fan, outtake 8" fan. room size 16' x 18'. 12/12 lighting. I water everyother day. 3rd week into flowering, plants are around 3' tall. Was having some bug issues (mites), not real bad. Sprayed them with organicide 2 times. Once about 8 days ago and than 5 days ago. Nutes givin is fox farm tiger bloom. 1.5 teaspoons everyother feeding. Than it happend, went to my room and found one of my plants with leaves that u see. The plant is covered with leaves like this about 80% of them. Also alot of other plants have same symtoms but only 2-5% of the leaves. Do u think it is from the bug spray or from over watering. After reading this thread I may have been over watering. I water when the top couple inches is dry but the still have some weight like there is alot of water at the bottom. Sorry so long trying to give good info. Please please please help me......Thanks


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## carson687 (Oct 14, 2010)

sorry not very good posting pictures


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## DaveCoulier (Oct 14, 2010)

DocBud said:


> Wow. I just learned something. Overwatering can cause the lower leaves to yellow and fall off? I did not know that. Is this from nitrogen leeching?


If you over-water you run the risk of killing your roots due to lack of oxygen. If those roots die, then uptake of water is severely impacted, and along with it nutrient uptake. So now the plant is under water stress and nutrient stress. The most common deficiency is an N deficiency, so you will generally notice this whenever water and nutrient uptake is inhibited. 

Over-watering and under-watering may sound like different things, but they both will lead to water stress, and the symptoms of water stress will be the same regardless of how you got there.


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## DocBud (Oct 14, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> If you over-water you run the risk of killing your roots due to lack of oxygen. If those roots die, then uptake of water is severely impacted, and along with it nutrient uptake. So now the plant is under water stress and nutrient stress. The most common deficiency is an N deficiency, so you will generally notice this whenever water and nutrient uptake is inhibited.
> 
> Over-watering and under-watering may sound like different things, but they both will lead to water stress, and the symptoms of water stress will be the same regardless of how you got there.


On my current grow cycle, I used much less perlite in my soil mix than I usually do. I usually use about 30% perlite....this time i used the soil right out of the bag, because it already had perlite in it, and people I trust told me not to add more.

So, I water when the pots are light.....but I've got 3 plants (out of 42) with yellowing leaves....WTF? 

Conclusion; I'm over watering. The extra perlite protected me in the past.


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## drmarcusg (Oct 15, 2010)

wow ive read this thread front too back...first time grower and i did the stupidest thing..i had a small case of fungus knats due to overwatering...i bought neem, mosquito dunks, gonats, put sand on them ect..while totally focused on the fungus gnats i lost focus of the grow and was just hell bent on killing the gnats...now from reading this forum i realize my overwatering was the reason my plants were dying (not the gnats)the tips were curling and turning brown/black... i basiclly killed 4 seedlings (im riding them out but im considering them dead or on their way) and really hurt my 2 baby's that have been going strong for 3 weeks..i just germed some cali hash plant and theres no way im gonna make the same mistake again!as a new grower ive been reading and reading most people are just full of shit... BIG UPS UNCLE BEN!


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## legallyflying (Oct 16, 2010)

I thought I would post up here in addition to the basic plant problems forum as this thread seems to have the uber experienced ganja surgeons in it. Uncle Ben, I really took your initial advice to heart "grow them like tomatoes" but I have been having issues despite trying to just let the plants be. 

Here is my situation, and I apologize for the long post, just trying to give you all the info....

Ebb/flow table under dual 400's. co2 (but haven't really been using it yet). Temps always between 74/87. Rez temp 69-71. Tap water through 5 micron and carbon filter. Base PPM around 50. Base PH around 6.8. 8 minute flood. 120 min between floods. 

I put clones in the table about 10 days ago. They had roots but not allot of them. Issues outside my control dictated that I had to take the clones. So I put them in the table. I ran for about 4 days no nutes and then added about 75 PPM of cal/mag and botanicare grow. The lights were about 4 feet from the table. The plants looked ok but several leaves were starting to curl under but no burnt leaves. The plants started to look a little yellow. I was managing the ph but it was rising allot overnight (up to 7) this was a result of the hydroton....

So I had some issues with my hydroton not being properly soaked before going in the table and it was raising my PH..BIG TIME. Lots of research done and finally scooped as much hydroton as I could out of the table and soaked it in strong acid 3.8, watched it soar up to 6.3-6.5 and then adding more acid. After around 24 hours and nearly 1/2 cup of PH down it stabliazed around 5.5. I put it back in the table. however, since my plants are in 6" net pots filled with hydroton (now with roots) I could not treat that hydroton. I initiated a 20 minute flood while keeping ph down in the low 5's to attempt to treat the net pot hydroton. (the plants didn't look waterlogged as only the net pots had hydroton in them and not the table so they dried rather quickly. 

This was plain water with about 75 ppm of superthrive. (tablesppon for 20 gallons). 

After putting all the hydroton in two days ago, the PH still climbs overnight but stays between 5.7-6.2. The roots are coming out of the net pots and are all white so that is a good sign. When I put the hydroton back in the table I added 100 PPM of cal mag, 100 of liquid karma and 100 of grow. This combined with PH down and a dash of superthrive equal present ppm of 415. So they have been on this for two days. I also lowered the lights to 18 inches and the are getting between 55-68K lumens. 

Sooooo... they plants still looked fuckered up. 

Almost all the plants are yellow in color, they are not the typical green that I am used to. One of the plants has strong purple coloring along the leaf margins (Jack herrer), one of the blue widows is also developing this. T he mango kush plants are VERY short and tight and have developed yellowish leaves with green veins, Almost al the plants have down turned leaves, a few have tiny nute burns on the tips. 

View attachment 1216318View attachment 1216319View attachment 1216320View attachment 1216321View attachment 1216323View attachment 1216324View attachment 1216325




So they look like they have micro defficiences as well as nitrogen deficiency but with 400 PPM I am getting signs of nute burn.... The PH of the water has statyed between 5.8 and 6.1? 

So What the fuck???? Should I foliar? Is the hydroton in the pots fucking with the ph at the roots, inhibiting uptake? Should I soak the pots and plants in low PH to try and fight this? Should I stick a gun in my mouth, wiping the tears away from a frustrating grow and end it all ? 

So in summary this is the situation:

Day 1. Clones with small roots, given weak nutes 150PPM total cal/mag/ grow, 500 PPM co2, lights at 4 feet.
Day 5. heavily curling leaves, signs of deficiencies. raised PPM by another 150. 
Day 7. Realized soaring PH not normal..but keeping it under control. houston, we have issues. changed rez water added superthrive and nothing else.
day 8. Removed as much hydroton as possible. soaked the shit out of it to get it neutral. long duration soaks of table with 5.4 water/superthrive to treat net pot hydroton. Plants look ok, not curling under as much. starting to develop strong yellowing/green veins and purple leaves. 
Day 9. Put humpty dumpty back together again. Added 120 cal/mag. 100 grow, and 120 liquid karma. PPM at 415. Lowered lights to 18" Co2 now at 1000 ppm

Day 11. PLants loook like hell. PH still rising but very slowly. Completely bummed.


What do you guys thinK?


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## DocBud (Oct 16, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> I thought I would post up here in addition to the basic plant problems forum as this thread seems to have the uber experienced ganja surgeons in it. Uncle Ben, I really took your initial advice to heart "grow them like tomatoes" but I have been having issues despite trying to just let the plants be.
> 
> Here is my situation, and I apologize for the long post, just trying to give you all the info....
> 
> ...


I've never had tomatoes grown via flood table. Mine always grow in the backyard....in dirt.

Why not scrap all that and grow in some nice soil, with some nice, sensible nutrients that cost like 10 bucks a year?


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## riddleme (Oct 16, 2010)

Ditto that ^^^


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## legallyflying (Oct 16, 2010)

Thanks for the help Doc Bud. Really going out on a limb to help a fellow grower. Plus rep for sure


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## DocBud (Oct 16, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> Thanks for the help Doc Bud. Really going out on a limb to help a fellow grower. Plus rep for sure


You might not think I am being helpful...but I am.

Fact: soil weed tastes better
fact: soil is a more forgiving medium
fact: soil is less expensive, especially if you use high quality non-cannabis nutrients

In other words:

Good soil, water, a couple simple nutrients.....and you're good to go. 

Contrast that with your hydro set up. 

If you must use hydro....grow in perlite, use Ocmocote Plus for nutrients, pH your tap water to 6....stand back and watch what happens.


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## legallyflying (Oct 17, 2010)

Well if you put it that way. I grew in soil for years, outdoors mostly. Yeah it is more forgiving, and it's easier to produce good tasting buds. But in terms of expense I think your off the mark. The other issue is that soil indoors is a messy, back breaking pain in the ass. I switched to hydro to try something different, challange myself and increase my knowledge of plant physiology. It's fairly apparant you possess little knowledge to offer me assistance and that's fine. But I think you could understand how someone in my shoes would find your response " just do it my way" a tad off putting. 

NBD


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## DocBud (Oct 17, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> Well if you put it that way. I grew in soil for years, outdoors mostly. Yeah it is more forgiving, and it's easier to produce good tasting buds. But in terms of expense I think your off the mark. The other issue is that soil indoors is a messy, back breaking pain in the ass. I switched to hydro to try something different, challange myself and increase my knowledge of plant physiology. It's fairly apparant you possess little knowledge to offer me assistance and that's fine. But I think you could understand how someone in my shoes would find your response " just do it my way" a tad off putting.
> 
> NBD


I might have more knowledge than you realize...it's hard to tell from just a single post. 
However, I do apologize for being a little snotty with my response.

I've done hydro....and did it very well. It was a pain in the ass and was very expensive. If you have the right set up, have a big tank of RO, and a very convenient way to drain reservoirs and refill them, hydro isn't so bad. So assuming you have the perfect grow room, with water, air, lights, dialed in environment and floor drains right next to a valve on the res-tank.....

Assuming all that, look at the cost of hydro and compare it to dirt.

Hydro nutes are expensive
Washing hydroton is a pain
Hydroton isn't cheap either, and re-using it is labor intensive.
You've got to have backup pumps....you will have a failure sooner or later.
You will make a mistake that causes your plants to go all crazy....or perhaps your plants go all crazy and you have no idea why?

These are all challenges with hydro. If done right, the yield in hydro is better than soil, mainly because the plants grow a bit faster.
However, taste and quality is where it's at for me....and soil wins that battle.

I won't bother pricing out the cost of a hydro run. You know that better than me. But here's the cost of a soil run:

1.)2 bags FFOF @ 12 bucks each
2.)1 bag FF Light Warrior 12 bucks
3.)12 9x9 plastic pots, 2.95 eachx12=35.40
4.)One bottle of Osmocote Plus or Dynamite 4-20 bucks, depending on sales
5.)Tap water....cost is miniscule
6.)Bloom enhancer of your choice. 45 bucks (optional)

So, for a first time soil run you're looking at 146 bucks including tax.
Since you can reuse the pots for a long time, and the Osmocote will last about 2 years with a grow that size, subsequent runs are less than 100 bucks.

And....don't forget, soil weed tastes better.

You could do even better than what I listed, but I can get all that stuff I mentioned in about 1/2 hour without visiting an overpriced hydro shop. Miners hardware and Home Depot has everything you need and more to grow the finest cannabis possible.....or like you said, tomatoes.

Have you ever gone to a fine restaurant that boasted it's salad was hydroponically grown?

Around here, in wine country, they always advertise "organic baby greens," etc. This means dirt, poop, and other stuff like that. The taste is divine! But, in all fairness, I've never had the opportunity to compare organic produce to hydroponic produce. 

I suspect there is a reason for that.....and I'm pretty sure I know what that reason is. 

Commercial growers depend on several things:

1.)a market for the crop
2.)a good yield at minimal expense
3.)the ability to control/mitigate environmental challenges to insure 1 and 2.

Hydro makes that much tougher.


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## i81two (Oct 17, 2010)

1.)2 bags FFOF @ 12 bucks each
2.)1 bag FF Light Warrior 12 bucks
3.)12 9x9 plastic pots, 2.95 eachx12=35.40
4.)One bottle of Osmocote Plus or Dynamite 4-20 bucks, depending on sales
5.)Tap water....cost is miniscule
6.)Bloom enhancer of your choice. 45 bucks (optional)

This will grow like 6 plants approx. I can grow 50 plants for that cost after initial setup costs.

I think i finally figured out what the taste of organic pot is. It is dirt, vermiculite, bat and worm shit. Your fans blow that crap around the room and it gets all over the buds. In hydro it is like an operating room. By the way bat guano in very little doses will fuck your shit up. I have actually come to the conclusion that i wont smoke weed that is organic in fear of my health. 

I know this post will ruffle some feathers but oh well.

Here is an interesting article everyone should read.
http://www.modernsage.com/Expert/ArticleDetails.aspx?Article_Id=464


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## DocBud (Oct 17, 2010)

i81two said:


> 1.)2 bags FFOF @ 12 bucks each
> 2.)1 bag FF Light Warrior 12 bucks
> 3.)12 9x9 plastic pots, 2.95 eachx12=35.40
> 4.)One bottle of Osmocote Plus or Dynamite 4-20 bucks, depending on sales
> ...


Well, actually that amount of soil will grow 12 plants. I'm doing it right now, using 9x9 pots. The nutrients will grow about 120 plants....for 20 bucks.

It's not really organic. Osmocote is a resin coated controlled release fertilizer. But the taste of dirt grown weed is not bat poop on buds! It comes from all the subtle nutrients that can be found in soil that are not present in hydro food. I've had some exquisite hydro buds....but they're no match for top knotch dirt buds.

Anyways, this thread is getting off course and it's largely my fault. I'll disengage right now, because this is about plant moisture stress, not a debate about hydro vs soil.

I apologize for hijacking things.


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## legallyflying (Oct 18, 2010)

Agreed way side tracked. I spend around $120 per cycle on nutes. I ran pipe straight from my filter to the Rez. Quick disconnect on my pump drains to a sanitary sink. So all in all a very easy system to operate.


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## plaguedog (Oct 18, 2010)

i81two said:


> 1.)2 bags FFOF @ 12 bucks each
> 2.)1 bag FF Light Warrior 12 bucks
> 3.)12 9x9 plastic pots, 2.95 eachx12=35.40
> 4.)One bottle of Osmocote Plus or Dynamite 4-20 bucks, depending on sales
> ...



LOL...sigh


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## Mynamehere (Oct 19, 2010)

Hey Uncle Ben, A question regarding NPK and plants. If i were to make an outdoor soil mix with a fix of Blood Meal/Bonemeal (not sure on the NPK exactly) Would a plant be able to do its thing and not have N affect it during flowering or would it be better to add some blood meal and give it some plant food like 10-30-20 when flowering comes around. Thanks


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## DocBud (Nov 7, 2010)

Huh.

Is this thread dead?


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## legallyflying (Nov 8, 2010)

DocBud said:


> Huh.
> 
> Is this thread dead?


Yeah its dead. Probably because when someone asked a serious question about plant health they get the "dude you should grow in soil" bullshit answer.


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## johnkeyber (Nov 10, 2010)

How do I fix this problem? I dont have a fan in this room so maybe thats it


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## DaveCoulier (Nov 10, 2010)

johnkeyber said:


> View attachment 1260989 How do I fix this problem? I dont have a fan in this room so maybe thats it


Its not a fan issue. 

Your plant is definitely under moisture stress. Its unable to uptake water for some reason. What are your watering habits? Have you watered recently? How much water did the plant receive?


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## DaveCoulier (Nov 10, 2010)

Chad, just put them out of their misery and try again. They are far too gone. Even if any recovered, you should expect them to be badly stunted.


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## DaveCoulier (Nov 11, 2010)

Chad Demmitt said:


> View attachment 1262408View attachment 1262407View attachment 1262406View attachment 1262405
> 
> I was hoping for a different answer. The above pictured seedlings are 6 days after being put into rockwool for germination. It looks as if the darn things are stretching. Grrr. I have a superlocker 2.0 system and this thing is suppose to be turn key. The light is a cool white flourescent right above the plants. Any other thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. This is my first grow and I have already trashed 6 clones.


They are stretching some. You will need to lower your fluorescent bulb. I can't tell you how close as I dont know the wattage. Seedlings dont require high light levels, but drop it down a bit more until you notice the stretch stopping. 

Expect to make plenty of mistakes on your first grow, and probably your second and third if you're anything like me . Its not always going to be easy, but the reward is worth it.


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## DaveCoulier (Nov 11, 2010)

Chad Demmitt said:


> Dave,
> Thanks for the feedback. It's very much appreciated. I'd like your opinion on rockwool/hydroton usage, specifically in the cloner. The seeds were germinated in rockwool without any hydroton below it. The other clones are just wedged in hydroton, no rockwool. Is there a correct way to use these mediums together, should I just be using one without the other? The whole reason those clones got messed up is because I was told to do away with the rockwool and only use hydroton.


I wish I could help you, but Im a strictly soil guy. You can check out the hydro forum here, maybe you'll find your answers there.


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## Life Goes On (Nov 12, 2010)

Chad Demmitt said:


> View attachment 1262408View attachment 1262407View attachment 1262406View attachment 1262405
> 
> I was hoping for a different answer. The above pictured seedlings are 6 days after being put into rockwool for germination. It looks as if the darn things are stretching. Grrr. I have a superlocker 2.0 system and this thing is suppose to be turn key. The light is a cool white flourescent right above the plants. Any other thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. This is my first grow and I have already trashed 6 clones.


Brave soul you are going hydro on your first grow. I know you probably don't want to hear this but you should have went soil at least until you got the hang of growing MJ. Different strains require different treatment and it takes a while to figure out how to properly care for any given strain. Yes hydro you have more control over things such as PH and nute levels but hydro is also WAY unforgiving when a mistake is made. It is much easier to rebound from a mistake in soil. I'm on my first grow as well and I HIGHLY recommend Subcools just add water Super Soil mix. I did run into a nute def issue but it was my own fault and a lesson learned on my strains growth patterns and nutrient uptake levels. Luckily I decided to grow soil for my first grow because had I decided to go hydro I may have not been able to rebound from the nute def and had to deal with the heartache of losing a whole crop. But thats just something hydro growers have to cope with when that time comes. If you grow hydro you have to learn to let go sometimes as mistakes are that difficult to rebound from. You might as well stick a fork in those bad boys cuz they're done!


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## L.A.D+ (Nov 16, 2010)

Hey guys, I'm kinda stressing, it's my first grow and one of my plants is starting to not look so great. From what I've read it seems like it could be nute burn or overwatering. I'm not sure what to do, as if it is nute burn I'd have to flush, but if I was infact overwatering, then I'd be even more screwed! Would be massively grateful if you could take a look? All feedback appreciated! 

-I think I may have given it nutes around 1000ppm.
-Only ever water it with about 200ml of water (left for two days).
-Over plants doing fine with much darker leaves (same strains).
-My plant still appears to be growing

View attachment 1271187


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## freethoughexchange (Nov 16, 2010)

L.A.D+ said:


> Hey guys, I kinda stressing, it's my first grow and one of my plants is starting to not look so great. From what I've read it seems like it could be nute burn or overwatering. I'm not sure what to do, as if it is nute burn I'd have to flush, but if I was infact overwatering, then I'd be even more screwed! Would be massively grateful if you could take a look? All feedback appreciated!
> 
> -I think I may have given it nutes around 1000ppm.
> -Only ever water it with about 200ml of water (left for two days).
> ...


Yes, that plant is a little too early for nutes and it may be nute burn also. However, check the ph of your soil. That is what seems to be off more than anything. Just keep in mind anything you do to fix the problem (once pinpointed) will not happen immediately, so it will take a few days to a week for it to bounce back.


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## L.A.D+ (Nov 16, 2010)

freethoughexchange said:


> Yes, that plant is a little too early for nutes and it may be nute burn also. However, check the ph of your soil. That is what seems to be off more than anything. Just keep in mind anything you do to fix the problem (once pinpointed) will not happen immediately, so it will take a few days to a week for it to bounce back.


Appreciate your help!

I don't have a pH meter, although the soil is supposed to be around 6 when purchased and is working fine for my other plants. The only real difference (which isn't much) is the amount of nutes/water they're given, as I just do it by eye normally.

What do you think I should do next? I'm tempted to leave it well alone and see if the leaves perk up, but on the other hand, the plant could be burning while I'm not flushing it with water.


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## freethoughexchange (Nov 16, 2010)

I am not sure about flushing a plant that young/small. Someone else can better answer that one. But, it also seems like its growth is being stunted. Did the new leaves grow that close to the first ones, or is that just the angle of the picture??? Stop with the nutes and only give water. I am sure somebody will be along soon to answer whether you should flush or not. Good Luck !!!


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## L.A.D+ (Nov 18, 2010)

freethoughexchange said:


> But, it also seems like its growth is being stunted. Did the new leaves grow that close to the first ones, or is that just the angle of the picture??? Stop with the nutes and only give water. I am sure somebody will be along soon to answer whether you should flush or not. Good Luck !!!


I know what you mean about the growth being stunted, the size of the leaves on my other plants is much greater and yes they did grow that close together. It is still growing, but I'm guessing the nute burn is stunting the growth?


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## DaveCoulier (Nov 19, 2010)

L.A.D+ said:


> I know what you mean about the growth being stunted, the size of the leaves on my other plants is much greater and yes they did grow that close together. It is still growing, but I'm guessing the nute burn is stunting the growth?


I would say you've burned that plant pretty good, and yes excessive nutes in the root zone will stunt the hell out of your plants. I have a finicky Skunk Haze that requires lower nutes than her sister, and she was barely growing at all in the same soil until I flushed her out good. Id say your only hope is to flush the medium with 2 or 3x the container volume, then tilt the container diagonally so that you can drain the perched water table. If your soil is porous enough, it shouldn't suffer from water logged conditions.


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## Johaha (Nov 19, 2010)

Simple question, how long can a plant go without watering? 

I forgot to water mine and it went 4 days and i saw it drooping pretty badly today.. It still is drooping a lot but at least I gave it 0.3 gallons/1liter the first time and couple of hours later due to the dry soil a little bit more..

So is the plant toast or will it fight back in the next days?

(Ph, temp and everything is ok..and I'm 100% sure it's underwatering so pics and info seemed unnecessary)


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## Life Goes On (Nov 19, 2010)

Johaha said:


> Simple question, how long can a plant go without watering?
> 
> I forgot to water mine and it went 4 days and i saw it drooping pretty badly today.. It still is drooping a lot but at least I gave it 0.3 gallons/1liter the first time and couple of hours later due to the dry soil a little bit more..
> 
> ...


Yes your plant should be fine. You should see it perk back up within 24 hours as long as underwatering is the case.


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## Johaha (Nov 20, 2010)

Life Goes On said:


> Yes your plant should be fine. You should see it perk back up within 24 hours as long as underwatering is the case.


Hm that'swhat i thought.. But it seems much worse today with some brown spots in the top bud and drooping even more.. Just as the plant before, but it came back after every flower and leaves and turned brown..thinking that it maybe could be some sort of virus because this is really weird that two plants of different strain "get sick" in the exact same way.. Kinda sad but what can you do! I'll give it a few days to see if something can be saved..


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## DaveCoulier (Nov 25, 2010)

Johaha said:


> Hm that'swhat i thought.. But it seems much worse today with some brown spots in the top bud and drooping even more.. Just as the plant before, but it came back after every flower and leaves and turned brown..thinking that it maybe could be some sort of virus because this is really weird that two plants of different strain "get sick" in the exact same way.. Kinda sad but what can you do! I'll give it a few days to see if something can be saved..


Its unfortunate you are already in flower. You may have did alot of damage to your root system, and its not going to recover once flowering is in full effect. Inspect your roots if you can. If they are dingy white or brown, and dessicated/shriveled, you are probably fubar'd. Ive seen the damage that dessicated roots can have on the health of plants in veg, and it took a few weeks for them to grow new roots and completely recover.


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## RohanVD86 (Nov 26, 2010)

yobdub said:


> great advice im stressing over plants(1st GROW) some info seems to contradict other pros that are trying to help but from my experiance your info seems more logical.....maybe logic doesnt produce more bigger buds I have been over waterig/fertin and when i chill and be patient things look better Lord im an impatient bastard especially when im smokin schwag and waitin for my grow to finish  GOD BLESS *RIU* PEOPLE


It's kinda like he said, It's really just common sense, If you just let them grow...them bitches will grow, hell, weed is a weed. And it will damn sure grow like one. Don't stress it man, they are a pretty tough plant, they can endure a lot. I use Miracle-Gro honestly. It works great and all my plants are looking good. Just follow UNC's advice on here.


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## Life Goes On (Nov 26, 2010)

I was just wondering if anybody could tell me what the issue with my plants are? First I noticed the leaves doing this 


Then I noticed that one of them hermied on me so I decided to just chop'em. When I did so I decided to exmine the roots just to see what kind of condition they were in and this is what they looked like


Now correct me if I'm wrong but they are supposed to be nice and white are they not? I examined the soil to see if maybe there were any critters eating away at the root system but I couldn't find anything. Does anyone have any idea what could possibly be the issue?


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## Guy Dasilva (Nov 27, 2010)

" It's pretty basic stuff but sometimes we lose sight of the forest for the trees"

Uncle Ben, thank you for the great advice!


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## cannabis love (Nov 27, 2010)

I once read that dunking a pot in water until the bubbles stopped, which, when you remove it, the water drains, and creates suction to draw oxygen to the roots. Is this a recommended way to water?


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## stickystink (Dec 10, 2010)

hi my name is stickystink im just wondering if you could help me with my plant, well there isnt really a problem now like there was but since i have used hydrogen peroxide and epsom salts into my water mix, its seemed to help the plant greatly, i use very small amounts (at least half the stated dose), and make sure that i do not over water, as i let my medium dry out, but i did water it a bit to much before, once i noticed that something was up wiv her, i went on the forum and found stuff out like you guys!!! hooray for you lot, your godsends the lot ov ya! well once i started these forums i go on a couple that im a member of but yours is far the best the info is really clear and concise and very easy to understand, heaven sent in my eyes she is just starting her 5th week now and fingers crossed x, well i have it in a cardboard box set-up for now until i get my tent, which im literally waiting for now, i have a 250 watt MA bulb, a big shade, digital ballast, and there is mylar lined walls, with small computer fans blowing fresh air across the top of the plant, and the lid took of the top of the box so any stale air can go out of the top of the box, the temp is between 75-80, but when the lights go of it goes down to 61-64 is that to much of a drop? could this stress the plant to much? well the leaves seem ok but does that mean the actual plant itself is better? the stork is alright and leaves look lush green, but residue of yeast from trying out the co2 method (which went tits-up! ooppps!!!) but sparayed the leaves with water to get it of, and cleaned it asap, ill put up some pics of her aswell.


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## DaveCoulier (Dec 10, 2010)

Stickystink, raise the temperature of your growing space when lights are off. Raising the temps will reduce internodal elongation, as well as improve their growth rates, and will decrease the time it takes to flower. Get it up to 70 during lights off would be good. Even 75 is fine. 

If your plant is full of beautiful green leaves, then you are probably doing well.


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## jjfoo (Dec 11, 2010)

stinky,

I have noticed that if I stick a wick into the drain hole and raise the plant (like a 2x4 laying flat), enables the water to drain much better. Are you watering enough to get runoff? If so, I'd be curious what the EC of that solution is.


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## HUNTERLEVELL (Dec 15, 2010)

hey UB been reading alot of your threads, forums and all. absolute tons of info anybody can use, absolutly amazing. saw your thread about topping to get 4 colas but cant find it again. but was hoping i could ask you here. on one of my plants iv taken some clones from the bottom(the first original 2 nodes), so if i was to top above the second node which would be the 4 now would i still get 4 colas or does that only apply to if you do it after the real first 2 nodes? and i know its hard to say without a photo but on one of them it looks like little rust spots everywere, any idea what it could be?


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## Danielsgb (Dec 16, 2010)

Here you go.** I do this to all mine now. If I get what your asking if you took clones from the 2nd or 3rd node, then if you top 2 nodes above there you should have 4 lateral branches to become the 4 main colas. UB answers it better but I think that's what you mean. Post some pics if you can since it's easier to describe. Hope that helps.*

Uncle Ben's Topping Technique to get 2 or 4 MAIN colas*


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## killeroxx (Dec 16, 2010)

please help idk what the hell is happening can someone please diagnose this for me id be much Obliged... 

BEFORE PIC



FEW DAYS AFTER


HERE IS MY OTHER PLANT ITS MUCH WORSE

THANKS IN ADVANCE


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## killeroxx (Dec 16, 2010)

just started useing fox farm big bloom a few days ago so it aint that i dnt think


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## killeroxx (Dec 16, 2010)

could it be from flowering?


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## DaveCoulier (Dec 17, 2010)

killeroxx said:


> could it be from flowering?


Its not from flowering, and Its not Big Bloom. Have you added any other nutrients lately? I can't be of much help. Sorry. You may want to look in the Marijuana Plant Problem forum, and see if there are any threads regarding the same problem. Im sure there are.


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## Alganj (Dec 23, 2010)

UB, and other knowledgeable growers please. 

I enjoyed this post. I think it applies to me. Man, I am freaking out and very depressed and disappointed in my current situation. Every other time I wanted to grow, I threw some magic seeds in some garbage and grew a beautiful garden. 
This time, I planned everything, spent the $, build the room, dotted the "I"s and crossed the T's. Im murdering my grow. I know it. Please take the time to listen and help me. 

There are two small plants in the pictures. Believe it or not, they are both about 5 weeks old. 
I started with 20 seedlings and they all died except 4. These two look like crap.
They are both super lemon haze fem, and the larger plant in the larger of the two pots was transplanted into miracle grow soil a week ago because I thought the original soil I used was poopoo.
The smaller one in the yogurt cup is still that same poo poo soil that had been used by my basil plants for a growing season.

Growing environment is 4-23W 6500k spectrum CFLs/ 2-T5s directly overhead 40wattsx2, blue/white spectrum. 68-70degrees at night. 73-80 during the day, with humidity pretty steady at 45-55%.
The smaller plant as you can see is turning yellow and seriously wilting. The larger one is just staying the same with no new growth. 
I have tried light nutes on the soil. I have tried flushing/leaching with Phd water. I have tried H202 in the soil. Ive foliar fed the leaves with the nutes, but it hated that, so I then misted leaves with distilled water to remove the white powdery substance and cleanse them. 
I had one other plant like this, and I moved it to a small coffee container DWC with air pumps, netpots and maintaining the water at 250ppm 5.8 and that one survived. 
Im wondering if I need to do something drastic and change the conditions? I already put the larger one in new MG soil, but that didnt do anything. 
Like I said, Ive been doing this for 5 weeks and trying everything. PLEASE HELP ME!!!


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## Alganj (Dec 23, 2010)

Help help help i suck


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## riddleme (Dec 23, 2010)

Alganj said:


> Help help help i suck


how is the drainage on those pots? and what are your watering practices?


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## Alganj (Dec 23, 2010)

the yogurt cup has a bunch of holes drilled in the bottom and the larger clay pot has a drain hole as well. there has been no water leaching out of the cups after 2 days of watering/flushing.

I think I over watered at first. Then tried correcting with H202. I havent watered in week until today I watered one today with slight nutes because straight water/superthrive or anything else has not been working. 

Im gonna replant the smaller one from the yugurt cup to a larger container. I just planted the other one into the clay pot, so it should be ok for a little while.


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## riddleme (Dec 23, 2010)

Alganj said:


> the yogurt cup has a bunch of holes drilled in the bottom and the larger clay pot has a drain hole as well. there has been no water leaching out of the cups after 2 days of watering/flushing.
> 
> I think I over watered at first. Then tried correcting with H202. I havent watered in week until today I watered one today with slight nutes because straight water/superthrive or anything else has not been working.
> 
> Im gonna replant the smaller one from the yugurt cup to a larger container. I just planted the other one into the clay pot, so it should be ok for a little while.


well you did not answer about your watering practices,,,ie: how often and how much you have been watering, but I agree you have most likely overwatered them
if you are going to upcan the yogurt one pay attention to the color of any roots you see and describe it for us 
then no water for as long as it takes to see the leaves droop


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## Alganj (Dec 23, 2010)

I had been watering them every few days until the top part got crusty. Then I would water with H202 also. When I just transplanted the seedling in the yogurt cup, it was drenched and saturated with water and had a hint of funk smell to it. The roots looked stunningly better than I thought. They were whiteish/yellowish tint, but did not look like the onset of root rot, however the smell was musty. Poor drainage I believe. 
The soil is MG soil and the PH was 6.3 that I tested and the PPM was 100 when I filtered the dirt through distilled water and measured. 

All comments are greatly appreciated. Thanks alot. Please continue helping. Thanks---see before and after pics when I canned the yogurt cup.


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## Alganj (Dec 23, 2010)

Considering the leaves are already drooping on both plants, what do you mean when you say "then no water for as long as it takes to see the leaves droop"?


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## riddleme (Dec 23, 2010)

Alganj said:


> Considering the leaves are already drooping on both plants, what do you mean when you say "then no water for as long as it takes to see the leaves droop"?


leaves drooping is a sign of overwatering, leaves and stems drooping is a sign of underwatering, plants do not have bones, it is the water that makes them stand erect. They need wet/dry cycles to get O2 and thrive, normally it is bad to allow it to go to the point of "everything" drooping, though it will not kill the plant it does cause stress in your case you have over watered for 5 weeks (also causing stress) best now to allow a good dry cycle then start watering properly once the pots are dry you lift them to get a feel for their dry wieght best way to know when you should water again

You should consider doing a bit more reading what I just typed has been repeated on this forum over 10000 times, it is important to understand what plants need and what makes em thrive, we like to say learn how to read them, they will tell you things if you know and understand what to look for. most common mistake is overwatering, 2nd most common mistake is loving them to death


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## Alganj (Dec 23, 2010)

Thank Man. I have been reading these posts about 8 hour a day for a week now. I guess its just nice to have someone with experience treat my symptoms instead of someone elses. 
Noted Noted Noted. Good stuff. Thanks for taking the time to help me out.


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## crispy93 (Dec 24, 2010)

My leaves started drooping and then when I got up this morning they were brown and yellow. Over/under watered? Using fox farm ocean forest and no nutes. Just tap water. 





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## DaveCoulier (Dec 24, 2010)

crispy93 said:


> My leaves started drooping and then when I got up this morning they were brown and yellow. Over/under watered? Using fox farm ocean forest and no nutes. Just tap water.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I dont know what you have done to them, but I dont believe it has to do with your watering practices. Plants at that stage when placed under moisture stress will become limp, and have yellowing of the lowest leaves, but not to that extent from my own experiences.

Maybe you got a very bad batch of FFOF. It'd be useful to test it with a ph meter, and EC meter if possible.


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## GeeBee3000 (Dec 26, 2010)

Hey what's up people? Happy Holidays to everyone. I'm having a problem with Droopy Leaves on my veg plants. I have them in a 5ft.x10ft sealed room with 2 cooled 1000 watt MH Lights. Although I have no hygrometer, I do have the temperature set 68 on my 8,000 BTU Air Conditioner, but I have no idea what the actual room temperature is (If I had to guess I would say 70o degrees F). The plants have been in the Veg Room for about 2 weeks and since I did not soak the Grodan Rockwool Cubes for the recommend 8hrs, I have been watering the plants everyday. I know there could be a list of of possibilities, but what do you guys think? These are some pics of how the plants are currently looking in my Veg Room. Help please!


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## i81two (Dec 26, 2010)

More water and nutes maybe.


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## DaveCoulier (Dec 26, 2010)

GeeBee3000 said:


> Hey what's up people? Happy Holidays to everyone. I'm having a problem with Droopy Leaves on my veg plants. I have them in a 5ft.x10ft sealed room with 2 cooled 1000 watt MH Lights. Although I have no hygrometer, I do have the temperature set 68 on my 8,000 BTU Air Conditioner, but I have no idea what the actual room temperature is (If I had to guess I would say 70o degrees F). The plants have been in the Veg Room for about 2 weeks and since I did not soak the Grodan Rockwool Cubes for the recommend 8hrs, I have been watering the plants everyday. I know there could be a list of of possibilities, but what do you guys think? These are some pics of how the plants are currently looking in my Veg Room. Help please!
> 
> View attachment 1346424View attachment 1346423


I would suspect over-watering. They're droopy, and you water every day. Are these your only plants? If so, there is no need for 2k MH. I would also suggest you get a Caliber III Hygrometer. Its one of the best hygrometers out there and costs about $20.


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## GeeBee3000 (Dec 26, 2010)

Hey what's up Dave? Thanks for replying to my post. I suspected over watering as well. If so what is the best way to get them to recover? Should I not water them at all until the leaves stop drooping or do I give them less water for until the leaves stop drooping? Anybody's input will be carefully taken into consideration. Thanks again. I should have that Hygrometer tomorrow, I wish someone would of told me sooner.


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## DaveCoulier (Dec 27, 2010)

GeeBee3000 said:


> Hey what's up Dave? Thanks for replying to my post. I suspected over watering as well. If so what is the best way to get them to recover? Should I not water them at all until the leaves stop drooping or do I give them less water for until the leaves stop drooping? Anybody's input will be carefully taken into consideration. Thanks again. I should have that Hygrometer tomorrow, I wish someone would of told me sooner.


Just hold back on the watering until the leaves are rigid again, and then Id probably water the day after, but just use less(maybe half as much as normal). They should perk up within a couple of days if its not too bad. Overwatering seems to be a common problem for rockwool users that I have seen. But learning how to use any medium presents its own complexities.


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## i81two (Dec 27, 2010)

I grow in the 6x6 rockwool cubes and have no problem watering for 15 min 2 times per day from rooted clones and into veg, and up to 3 or 4 times daily well into flower. Take it for what its worth.


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## i81two (Dec 27, 2010)

Why buy a hygrometer when you can pick the plant up and feel if the rw is dry or still holds water ?


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## wietchepec (Dec 27, 2010)

nice avatar i81two...


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## fat geezy (Dec 27, 2010)

Can any body help?
have 3-4 week old northern light, which turn yellow, started with old leaves and going on the newer ones. when they were 2 weeks old I over nutried them with full strength solution of 

B.C. Grow 1%-3%-6%
B.C. Boost 3%-0%-2%
thrive alive 1-1-1 
Magic call 2-0-0
sugar daddy 0-0-0
next day leaves tips turned brown.
3 days ago I applied same solution but only half strength.
My leaves are turning yellow and tips turn brown. some leaves actually curling up. stems turn a little bit purple.
I don't understand if this time they had to much nutrients or not enough.
I would appreciate any advice


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## DaveCoulier (Dec 27, 2010)

i81two said:


> Why buy a hygrometer when you can pick the plant up and feel if the rw is dry or still holds water ?


The hygrometer has nothing to do with his watering practices. He should use it to help maintain a proper VPD(Vapor Pressure Deficit) in his grow room/space. 

More can be learned about it here.


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## DaveCoulier (Dec 27, 2010)

fat geezy said:


> Can any body help?
> have 3-4 week old northern light, which turn yellow, started with old leaves and going on the newer ones. when they were 2 weeks old I over nutried them with full strength solution of
> 
> B.C. Grow 1%-3%-6%
> ...


You likely over did it on fertilizers. The best way to know for sure is to buy an E.C. meter, and then test your run-off(shoot for .75-1.5 ms/cm). If you dont have one, I would flush about 1.5 gallons of water through a 1 gallon container. Possibly 2 is required, but it shouldn't require much more. After flushing, they should receive a mild nutrient solution. I would suggest 1/4th whatever your fertilizers suggest, but again buy an E.C. meter. Its worth the investment. 

This is the one I use.


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## i81two (Dec 27, 2010)

Thanks for sharing that very interesting article Dave.

That chart says that i should be running a rh of 75% with my 80-85 temps. That seems a little high to me. What do you think ?


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## DaveCoulier (Dec 28, 2010)

i81two said:


> Thanks for sharing that very interesting article Dave.
> 
> That chart says that i should be running a rh of 75% with my 80-85 temps. That seems a little high to me. What do you think ?


It would definitely cause problems with your carbon filters, as they're efficiency goes down once humidity reaches 65%, and will eventually lead to alot of stink escaping if humidity keeps climbing. Ive had that happen before, and I dont want that to ever occur again. Since we can't run that high of humidity when using carbon filters, you need to lower your temperatures, which will lower the required RH to maintain an optimum VPD. 

Here is an online calculator that will help you calculate your VPD. 

As for flowering with 75%RH, Ive done it before with nearly pure sativas and indica/sativa hybrids and no mold. RH was usually 55-65% lights on, while 75% lights off. I also maintained proper air flow modeled after Horizontal Air Flow(HAF). Greenhouses use this method of circulating air. I dont have a link off hand for that, but google it and you'll learn plenty. 

I generally try to maintain temps of 75F-80F, with humidity around 60-65%. If you can maintain that you'll be in good shape.


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## GeeBee3000 (Dec 29, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> The hygrometer has nothing to do with his watering practices. He should use it to help maintain a proper VPD(Vapor Pressure Deficit) in his grow room/space.
> 
> More can be learned about it here.


That article contains information I never thought of. It was a good lesson learned, thanks Dave.


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## DaveCoulier (Dec 29, 2010)

GeeBee3000 said:


> That article contains information I never thought of. It was a good lesson learned, thanks Dave.


Im glad you enjoyed it. Theres a wealth of information out there that most MJ growers haven't learned about. We tend to think that we can get all our information and knowledge here, and why wouldn't we? Its a marijuana forum, but unfortunately, most of the people on this board aren't as knowledgeable about plants and how to grow them compared to people who run commercial greenhouse operations, nurseries, etc. 

A good site for information is http://www.greenhousegrower.com/magazine/ 

I like to read their magazine articles from time to time. The Understanding Plant Nutrition series they have is a good one. Go through their past issues and look around. Im sure you'll find something in there worth reading.


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## GeeBee3000 (Dec 29, 2010)

GeeBee3000 said:


> Hey what's up people? Happy Holidays to everyone. I'm having a problem with Droopy Leaves on my veg plants. I have them in a 5ft.x10ft sealed room with 2 cooled 1000 watt MH Lights. Although I have no hygrometer, I do have the temperature set 68 on my 8,000 BTU Air Conditioner, but I have no idea what the actual room temperature is (If I had to guess I would say 70o degrees F). The plants have been in the Veg Room for about 2 weeks and since I did not soak the Grodan Rockwool Cubes for the recommend 8hrs, I have been watering the plants everyday. I know there could be a list of of possibilities, but what do you guys think? These are some pics of how the plants are currently looking in my Veg Room. Help please!
> 
> View attachment 1346424View attachment 1346423


Hey what's up people? I went and bought a Caliber III Hygrometer for my poor Veg. Room and the read out said that the temperature was at 66o degrees F and the Relative Humidity was at 79%. Could this be the reason most of my plants look like this? Another question is how in the world do I get the humidity down without a dehumidifier?


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## DaveCoulier (Dec 30, 2010)

Your humidity is too high for that temperature. Raise your temperatures and that will lower your humidity.

The high humidity isn't causing the drooping though. High humidity will cause your plants to be more rigid as its harder for them to release water to the atmosphere. 

The most likely culprit is over-watering. Plants that size have small root systems, and due to your low temperatures and high humidity evaporation from the rockwool is reduced thus retaining excessive moisture longer.


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## haze713 (Dec 30, 2010)

Hello, My temps in veg right now are 71-81 and RH had been 30%(now is 45%). I've had issues with little "cuts" showing up on leaves. My question is this: Can low humidity spawn random slices , cuts, and holes in leaves. I did bend a leaf tip and it broke easily. Also, I think PH is a bit high 7.5(working on getting that down). Not sure if PH can affect leaves this way. Very little browning on leaf tips. I flushed for good measure. The cuts I'm seeing are not browning or necrotic looking. I'm 100% sure it's not bugs. I placed sticky traps everywhere and nothing but a few fungus nats showed up. I'm very intimate with them multiple times a day and have never seen anything on them. Plant growth is steady and they look healthy. Lights are 120w triband LED and 150w HPS. HPS is about 12 inches away and LED is about 6-8". This is a soil grow that was mixed by me. Some pro mix, organic mix, and some compost that has been outside for over one year. I cooked that before mixing with my other soil. I may have over nuted early on based on some light tip browning but not browning on new growth. Some weird curling on random leaves though. I'm starting to thin I messed up somewhere badly. I do 3/4 strength nutes and water plain water 2x before adding nutes again. I let tap water sit 2 days. PH is 7.5(getting some ph down) My house is way to dry and I can only have a fan on for short periods or my humidity in the grow area goes down. I have added 3 18gallon bins full of water in my room. Added cold humidifier, and spray the room(not plants) as often as I can...still can only keep 45%rh.... My soil/run off test shows low nutrient levels. Light meter is not maxed at canopy.. out of 1-9 it's level 8. Let me know if more info is needed. I'll try to get a ppm reading in a few minutes and get a better picture of what I think may be issues to ask advice on. Thanks for any input!


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## businessmen (Dec 31, 2010)

Hey, been fighting a losing battle for a year, trying to grow indoors. Tried everything I can think of within reason. But its getting worse. I clone, and normally they veg great, its in flower or when they filling in the pot that they start dying from the bottom up, fan leaves first. Its gotta be a disease, Ive tried copper and serenade sprays recently. Didnt help. I go light on nutes, tried tap, phd RO, more nutes, less nutes, organic, chemical different soil.... THANK YOU!!!


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## Calickored (Dec 31, 2010)

Still having problems....I cannot seem to get my month old veggies to take HID lighting... I have two Sweet Tooth/ Trainwreck clones that will not repond positively to any wattage of Metal Halide lighting, I just recently noticed extreme transpiration when I put my babies under (1) 100W MH lighting and the older fan leaves continue to droop! 
I do not water that often because my MG MC medium stays moist for about a week, I do not fertilize at all because I've used premixed MG with a good dose of BLooD meal, Kelp dust (liquid Kelp dried), Bone meal and one spritz of Bat guano. 
I noticed over fert when I transplanted but It was easily and quickly corrected and my babies exploded with new growth and very short internodal spacing! Now as my plants grow they will not take any HID lighting no matter the distance from the canopy, they like my (1) 15W GE Chroma 50 fluoro and thats it! 
Could I have a new strain of (low light response) cannabis here?
Also, I would like to tell you that I've noticed alot of differences over the years as I use very dilute Progesterone ferts. I have experimented with alot of things and one of the most beneficial to my gardens is estrogen and progesterone. I've noticed 100% chances of getting females as the mjor result. This is from proven testing over the last 8 years of outdoor and indoor growing not only in Cannabis but other perennial plants as well. I guess what I was asking is that what affects would it have for potential users of the final product? Could it make male users grow tits or make them whiney like alot of women!? Could it make women users sterile or less fertile? I guess I ask this because of moral issues, I do not want to mutate others when I allow them to smoke my product! Also, I've noticed that some strains like the weed you find in mersh or mexi mid grade bags, the seeds respond much more when the birth control is used and that the leaves take on a red color and grow rapidly. Example, when I first started using BC I had three seeds of the best schwag I could find and grew them under 24/0 lighting for 6 months and they grew to the tops of my grow area which is about 10 feet and the biggest fan leaves were about 18" long, did I mention that I never had to change the photoperiod to induce flowering!?!?! The three plants havested over 6 pounds of dry sensimillia and it smelled like wintergreen or peppermint and it was Deep Crimson, from leaf matter to stigma...it was RED! I think I may be on to something with gentic modification here with Cannabis!!! 
Let me know what you think and what might be the problem with my Toothwreck clones. Thank you


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## killacreepz (Jan 1, 2011)

good information well done


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## convict156326 (Jan 1, 2011)

hey uncle ben, you seem to be a VERY knowledgeable person. im havin waterin issues. my girls showed over watering symptoms, but you say "5. Underwatering - not only is the plant now stressed due to a low supply of adequate moisture, but carbohydrate production has been greatly compromised (screwed up). Step up the watering frequency, and if need be, organic growers may need to soak the pot from the bottom up until moisture levels reach an even consistency throughout the medium especially with mixes that are heavy in peat. If severe, a little surfactant (liquid Ivory dish soap) added to the drench will help return the organics back to a normal moisture retentive state. If the pot feels light to the lift - its time to water. Dont wait until the soil pulls away from the sides of the pot or leaves droop before you water." that was how i would judge. i would water when the soil pulled inwards. earlier you mentioned about watering from the bottom. i check the drainage holes in my 3 gal grow bags, but have never even gotten the bottom of it oist. i thought this was bad. thanks for confirming. would you have any suggestions how i should properly water ? i just started my nute cycle. week one, splitting just 1 2 liter bottle between 6 plants with a 2.5ml/gal grow juice nute mix.


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## lbezphil2005 (Jan 3, 2011)

Calickored said:


> Still having problems....I cannot seem to get my month old veggies to take HID lighting... I have two Sweet Tooth/ Trainwreck clones that will not repond positively to any wattage of Metal Halide lighting, I just recently noticed extreme transpiration when I put my babies under (1) 100W MH lighting and the older fan leaves continue to droop!
> I do not water that often because my MG MC medium stays moist for about a week, I do not fertilize at all because I've used premixed MG with a good dose of BLooD meal, Kelp dust (liquid Kelp dried), Bone meal and one spritz of Bat guano.
> I noticed over fert when I transplanted but It was easily and quickly corrected and my babies exploded with new growth and very short internodal spacing! Now as my plants grow they will not take any HID lighting no matter the distance from the canopy, they like my (1) 15W GE Chroma 50 fluoro and thats it!
> Could I have a new strain of (low light response) cannabis here?
> ...


If you are using mg it hase nutes alredy in it, you are overnuting your young plants by adding the other stuff. get rid of mg, get some ffof or happy frog, no nute for the first 30 days.


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## businessmen (Jan 3, 2011)

Any ideas on my post ?


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## convict156326 (Jan 3, 2011)

same problem i had, stop watering as often, has been hard as hell for me not to water, but in my journal you can see the difference. but thats just a guess. pics help


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## Shrubs First (Jan 3, 2011)

swazinuggz said:


> im having leaves that are slightly curling and the large fan leaves are turning yellow and getting rust colored spots on the and then dying, the worst one is in a CoCo/soil mix in a 5gallon pot i water itwith 3-4 10oz cups every 2 days NE HELP?


You need to water more. 32 oz is a quarter of a gallon, every 2 days in a 5 gallon pot. 

You need a half a gallon a day for a full sized plant in a 5 gallon. Or a gallon every other day.

Thats what it sounds like. Although it is difficult to diagnose non nutritional disorders without
visual inspection.


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## riddleme (Jan 3, 2011)

swazinuggz said:


> interesting, o thought i was giving too much water...but is ur opinion based on straight soil or CoCo block as well? cause ive grown for comercial grows and they used hydroton/CoCo mix in 5 gal pot and i was only giving the plants about an eighth a gallon everyday and nutrients every 2 or 3 days if they were organic tea plants i gave nutrients everyday...and do u really think that the rust colored spots on the yellowing leaves is related to the amt. of water? i was thinking that since iwas givng higher amounts of potassium than normal ,due to a recent deficiency, than it fluctuated the Cal-Mag levels especially since its CoCo block were talking of which is known for this and that they had a calmag deficiency and which caused the curling...


Shrubs knows CoCo, best thing you could do is post a pic


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## Shrubs First (Jan 3, 2011)

Thats definitey possible, if you spike the K in Coco you'll have calmag lockout easy.

Especially if your media is drying out fast.. Do you receive runoff?


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## Alganj (Jan 9, 2011)

HELP THIS NOOB OUT PLEASE

*Hey....... I got droppy leaves on my Royal Queen super kush #1.

Can anyone help.

I got the plant in a small container DWC with vigorous air and stones bubbly. I have the water level about 1 inch below the bottom of the net pot. The roots are not massive , but are touching the water and alto of roots are out of the water. I have several other DWC plants and they are fine and kept at the same water level below the net pot.

The leaves have been droppy for a few days now. Last night the room got down to 58 degrees. I think that might have something to do with it. 

They are under 1000W MH 26 inches from this particular plant. plenty of fans and air movement. 

Humidity is 20-30% and then at night for 5 hours, the humidity gets up to about 60-70, so I was hoping that this period of high humidity would help moisten the plant and offset the low humidity. 

Please help. ohhh.. I also just fimmed it a couple days ago. 

*View attachment 1372381View attachment 1372382View attachment 1372384View attachment 1372385View attachment 1372386


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## Shrubs First (Jan 12, 2011)

Looks to be a lack of oxygen in the root system. But you say you have plenty of it?

26 Inches from a 1000W seems quite close. Especially for a plant that size, I keep
my 1000's 36 inches from my plants.

What is your TDS?


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## Alganj (Jan 12, 2011)

Ive been keeping the ppm around 400-550 for the little one and about the same for the larger SLH. It seems to be fine now. I noticed the temp spike in my GR and it got down to 58 degrees one night. I think that was it. REp for helping


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## Shrubs First (Jan 12, 2011)

Alganj said:


> Ive been keeping the ppm around 400-550 for the little one and about the same for the larger SLH. It seems to be fine now. I noticed the temp spike in my GR and it got down to 58 degrees one night. I think that was it. REp for helping


Low temps will definitely slow water movement. Purple veins are a common side effect
of slow water movement.


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## GeeBee3000 (Jan 13, 2011)

DaveCoulier said:


> Your humidity is too high for that temperature. Raise your temperatures and that will lower your humidity.
> 
> The high humidity isn't causing the drooping though. High humidity will cause your plants to be more rigid as its harder for them to release water to the atmosphere.
> 
> The most likely culprit is over-watering. Plants that size have small root systems, and due to your low temperatures and high humidity evaporation from the rockwool is reduced thus retaining excessive moisture longer.


Hey what's up Dave, you have help me solve some plant problems in December so let me start by saying thanks again. Here's my question; I have some plants in the vegetation stage that have been growing in 6X6 inch Rockwool cubes for 3 weeks. They appear to have purple stems. I was planing to move them to flowering but I wanted to ask you if this was a plant problem I should address before doing so. I have received and found info but I wanted know if you had any literature or opinions about plants with purple stems.


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## HererBorealis (Jan 24, 2011)

Hi there UncleBen! How are you? I'm well. I just joined the community a few days ago, and posted up my problem in the forum. I had a very prompt reply from another new member (thenotoriousone), and was wondering if you might mind taking a gander at my problem (as you are very knowledgeable in the area of cannabis cultivation  ) 

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/402641-over-watering-issue-solved.html

Anyways, thank you in advance for your time, look forward to hearing from you soon,

-HererBorealis-

P.S. Tried to send you a private msg, but says your box is full... Sry to post my link on your thread...


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## toughwork (Jan 27, 2011)

hey, im almost positive im having a moisture problem. but im too new to just be guessing... anyway, i posted my thread in plant problems. if you get time would you take a look for me please? https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/403864-possible-over-under-watering.html


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## fat geezy (Jan 27, 2011)

*Starting my second grow. My first grow was in coco soil with BC Nutrients. Turned out to be a pain. BC nutrients have to much K which reacts with coco soil and blocks nitrogen from getting to plants. 
On my second grow I will try eb and flow system with a rock-wool media. After my first grow I am still confused what nutrient to use. Schedule of feeding of nutrients is pretty important too. so I was wondering if you guys can post which nutrients worked best for you, and your schedule of feeding, for example when I should start feeding nuts. and at what dosage. Please be as detailed as possible. 
Appreciate any help*


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## the wiz (Jan 29, 2011)

Good afternoon. I hope everyone is enjoying their weekend. As mentioned in the title, I am a noob. A noob to growing. And a noob to the forum. So I must apologize ahead of time if I am posting in the wrong thread.

I have witnessed other grows. And I have poked around these forums a bit. I started my grow roughly two weeks ago this Sunday, tomorrow, 1/30/11.

These are autoflowers, Il Divo to be exact by Delicious Seeds. Oh, there is one Low Girl in the mix.

I germ'd the seeds in cotton pads, within 48 hours all were popped. From there I moved them into dixies and put them under a UFO LED light for a 24 hour cycle until they popped through. Once they sprouted through the soil i left them under the UFO 24/day for roughly a week. Once I started to notice they had stopped growing, I prepared on gallon buckets for transplanting.

When I removed the seedlings from the dixies I noticed that the roots had made their way to the bottom of the cup, filling the circumference of the bottom of the cup. **First worry: Did I wait too long to transplant, and is going from dixie to 1 gal too big of a leap?

Since being transplanted, I've had the ladies on a 18/6 cycle under a 400W HPS (My MH died on me  **Should I put the MH back in once I replace it?) And I would say the light is now 2ft above the plants, as of yesterday. I had it much closer (1ft. away), but I was afraid I was forcing too much light on them.

So this is where I am stumped. I am using 2 soil mixes. One is unknown. The other is by Aurora. It is their ROOTS brand, and the type is Greenfields: Coars Peat, Coco Fiber, Compost, Perlite, Pumice, Worm Castings...and a whole bunch of different meals. Im assuming the 'meals' are for extended food release??? The Greefields felt very light and airy. The 'unknown' was equally as light, though did feel more dense.

So the plants are transplanted. And I give them some H20, simple distilled H20 brought to the same temp. as the atmosphere that the plants are in. The 3 buckets of the 'unknown' I notice absorb all of the water. No drainage at all. The Greenfields, absorbed what was needed, and the excess drained off.

Since the transplant, the 3 buckets of Greenfields have shown growth. The 3 buckets of the 'unkown' show, if any, very very little growth. And it has been a few days. This is were I get worried. Obviously the unknown is not working well, but I do not know why. And I understand that it will hard to determine, given that I don't know it's mixture. (btw, a friend who works at a local greenhouse mixed this for me).

**The plants leaves are curling up a bit. Is it too much H20. Or is it too much light? If I transplant the plants out of the unknown, and into Greenfields....do you think I'll be safe. Or should I let this experiment run it's course?

To all that read through this, thank you for your time. It is, without a doubt, greatly appreciated. And if I did post in the wrong thread, please notify myself and move it accordingly. I am not sure if I am dealing with soil issues, H20 issues, or both. I have attached photos. They are of pre-transpant, and post-transplant (today). 

If any clarification needs to be made, just let me know. I will give all the info and pics that I can in order to ensure the best achievable grow. Thank you again. Best of luck to all of you dedicating your time to these wonderful plants.

--
The Wiz


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## the wiz (Jan 29, 2011)

pictures 4,6, &7 (if viewing from left to right) are the plants I am worried about mostly. They are in the 'unkown' soil. Though picture 5 is in Greenfields, though it is growning, it is curling??? And picture 9, does anyone feel that this has mutated? The plant in picture 9 started with 3 leaves. Is this common? Again, these are all auto-flowers. Picture 4 is Low Girl, the rest are Il Divo.


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## Flicker (Jan 29, 2011)

What u think of these upwards curled tip of leafs? Yhey are 7-8 days old,one auto ak47xlr2 and auto blueberry,temp are 25 degree ceslsius and 55% humidity. Transplanted yesterday into dry soil and just added little for 45min ago,looks to me the leafs dry out to quick?


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## Alganj (Jan 29, 2011)

They look just fine man


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## Flicker (Jan 30, 2011)

Alganj said:


> They look just fine man


Thanks,yes. I have been told im overthinking this,will just keep the soil moist and giving them 18/6 of the led


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## lbezphil2005 (Jan 30, 2011)

Hey wiz, it could be ph in the soil is off, probably need to check your ph on the unknown soil, make sure it's 6.2 to 6.5, very important!!


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## gelv (Jan 30, 2011)

my plants have purple stems and there verry young seeds runing the lights 24 hours 600w hps and 250w mh but day time temps 70f and as the night comes it was 48.9f can some one help


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## i81two (Jan 30, 2011)

Buy one of those $40 ceramic heaters from Walmart.


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## Alganj (Jan 30, 2011)

gelv,

I had the same issue and I put the 15$ el cheapo heater in there and bought this thermostat
http://cgi.ebay.com/Suncourt-DS100-DuctStat-Plug-In-Thermostat_W0QQitemZ380304603307QQcategoryZ42911QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D230565929242%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6741788237476254304

That solved all my problems and it only cost about 40$ total.

I think they have heaters that have a thermostat build into them for around 40$ as well. I just liked the thermostat I posted because I knew I could use it later for my exhaust fans also.

Alganj


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## lbezphil2005 (Jan 31, 2011)

Alganj said:


> gelv,
> 
> I had the same issue and I put the 15$ el cheapo heater in there and bought this thermostat
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Suncourt-DS100-DuctStat-Plug-In-Thermostat_W0QQitemZ380304603307QQcategoryZ42911QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D230565929242%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6741788237476254304
> ...


Be careful how big a heater you plug into that thermostat - has a 5 amp limitation, so stay away from anything over say, 500 watts.


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## Alganj (Jan 31, 2011)

Good point Lbez

Alot of heaters are more than 5 amps I believe.

With that said, I would just get a heater with a thermostat build into it.

Once winter is over, you might not need as much heat


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## fairladyz (Feb 2, 2011)

Do you guys know what this girl is going through? a fan leaf on top is burnt from the middle out
and alot of the leaves are looking old and wrinkly.. this is a blue dream strain. the leaves look like its shrivelingor somesort`View attachment 1419003
alot of the leaves are looking bumpy, and not flat.
my other rom also has spots of yellow..


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## kidgraphix (Feb 4, 2011)

Well its time to ask some questions UB i have three plant going 2 G-13 Blueberry Gum and 1 Tangerine Dream from Barney's Farm i seem to have about a 45-50% success rate with seed germination using the old fashioned just plant it in the ground (actually i use a peat pellet in a jiffy pot filled in with miracle gro nutrient added soil) method not into soaking seeds which brings up question 1 how can i improve my germination success rate? and the next question is to do mainly with my 1 BBG that i decided to use for learning and experimentation in the area of topping and LST. as you can see from the pics i will post i am not doing very well other than i havent killed her yet!!!? so if you can take a peek at my journal (link attached to signature) and offer some welcome pointers and advice Thanks in advance greatly appreciated. KID
View attachment 1422862View attachment 1422859View attachment 1422850View attachment 1422848View attachment 1422852View attachment 1422854


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## kidgraphix (Feb 4, 2011)




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## Pippy108 (Feb 4, 2011)

I wouldn't even glance at the food/growing medium section when I shopped for my light. Lot's of pretty labels with kitschy names. I'm indoors for the first time with 2 different strains, and learned quick that my sativa dominant wasn't on the same program as the indica, but not quick enough. I made 2 rookie mistakes, but knew from being a regl'r flower/shrub gardener that I'd need N throughout. You've gotta learn how to grow something before you invest. Grow a tomato plant. Get outside this summer and make it a point to grow a tomato plant in a pot. Learn the basics AND eat homegrown tomatoes. 
My question for UB is about tomato blight. I want to plant (1) in a spot outdoors this spring where I grew tomato 2 years ago, which was hit with that nasty blight 2 summers ago here in the east. I know it's an airbourne disease, but is it lurking in my soil? I can't find any info related to this so I figure I'd pose it to you. Wrong thread, I know.


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## TahoeGrown (Feb 4, 2011)

ub hey i was checkin out your link and your plants rate of growth blew my mind. my plants are three weeks old from seeds now and they look slightly smaller then your seedlings at week two how do you get them to grow so fast? what is your lighting set up? what nute set up are do you go wiith?I have been looking for someone who really has there stuff dialed in on here to get general advice growing advice from. your whole grow looks more progressive and productive then any other garden ive seen on here or any indoor grow i have seen myself. what are your secrets to keeping your plants so healthy and robust. if you would like to help kinda mentor me through my second grow it would be much appreciated. Any advice that helps you grow such amazing plants i could use.
thank you
TG


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## arsen451 (Feb 5, 2011)

Hey guys, wondering if anyone can help me understand whats going on with my plants. Plants have always been dark in color but recently have been coming out light lime green and drooping, mostly on the newer leaves. Ive got one mother plant and a few 2 week old plants that are all showing the same symptoms. Using Atami B'cuzz coco mixed with perlite, R/O water, nutes are 200 ppm Cal/Mag, Canna coco A and B, Cannazyme, and Super Thrive. Total ppm 600-700, PH 5.8. Watering til a good amount drains every 2 days. Under 1000w MH about 2 ft. above plants. Room Temp 70-80 degrees, Humidity 40-60%. Here are some pics.


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## Mellow Out Man (Feb 5, 2011)

Hey everyone, im finding it really difficult to diagnose what is wrong with my little girls the leaves are curling, and im not sure if it is because of lack of moisture of overwatering or heat or light. im sooo confused. Ive just uploaded some pics to my grow journal whcih is the thread in my signature. i will +rep anyone who can help even the tiniest bit. Thanks guys


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## StealthyDane (Feb 6, 2011)

Typical over watering?

24 hour lighting, planted in VC, potting soil and rabbit pellets, Kaya gold strain

Thoughts?


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## Longtimetoker (Feb 6, 2011)

*Looks like a potassium deficiency. Are you using nutrients? If so, what is the NPK of your solution?*


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## Superdan01 (Feb 6, 2011)

View attachment 1426320View attachment 1426319

any ideas way this girl is depressed

please help


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## Superdan01 (Feb 8, 2011)

just an update droped nutes to 1.5. p.h 6.4. also droped heat (turned 1 of 600w off). 60 off 74 on. also flush agian. still very worried.


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## kidgraphix (Feb 8, 2011)

SuperDan, drop your Ph to 6.0 and try to keep it there it can flux a bit but should never stay above 6.2 for any longer than you can help. Your plants are being locked out of Nutes being as the Ph is in the wrong range safe bet is always keep Ph 5.8-6.2 i keep mine at 6.0 and check it often to make sure it stays stable inside that flux range.I run a hydro system but the Ph rule is still the same check your soil Ph as well alot of things affect the Ph and it is so very IMPORTANT for the plants to use all the nutrients it needs dont help to have all the Nutrients there if the plant is locked out by Ph.My 2 cents worth anyway but you should always research and persistence keep looking for any availble answer just because there may always be compounded problems Best of Luck


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## pyschoanda (Feb 8, 2011)

a few of my plants have recently started to curl like claws and im wondering if it would be caused by heat? alot of the leaves have also just wilted. would this be caused by anything else? . is this normal? can anyone help. please


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## Life Goes On (Feb 9, 2011)

@SuperDan01 How long have your ladies been in flowering? Because IMO from what I can tell from the pics it just looks like your ladies are coming to the end of there life cycle hence the yellowing of the leaves. When your plants know they are coming to the end of thier life cycle they will use up all the nitrogen in the soil causing the leaves to yellow. This occurance is perfectly normal. Hope this helps.


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## Superdan01 (Feb 9, 2011)

kidgraphix said:


> SuperDan, drop your Ph to 6.0 and try to keep it there it can flux a bit but should never stay above 6.2 for any longer than you can help. Your plants are being locked out of Nutes being as the Ph is in the wrong range safe bet is always keep Ph 5.8-6.2 i keep mine at 6.0 and check it often to make sure it stays stable inside that flux range.I run a hydro system but the Ph rule is still the same check your soil Ph as well alot of things affect the Ph and it is so very IMPORTANT for the plants to use all the nutrients it needs dont help to have all the Nutrients there if the plant is locked out by Ph.My 2 cents worth anyway but you should always research and persistence keep looking for any availble answer just because there may always be compounded problems Best of Luck



kidgraphix... iv lowered ph. to 6.4. also turned another light off....so now there is only 1x 600w on. temps are now 60f off 70f on. also when iv flushed yesterday e.c was 1.8. did it again tonight after flushing it, it reads 1.4.




> @SuperDan01 How long have your ladies been in flowering? Because IMO from what I can tell from the pics it just looks like your ladies are coming to the end of there life cycle hence the yellowing of the leaves. When your plants know they are coming to the end of thier life cycle they will use up all the nitrogen in the soil causing the leaves to yellow. This occurance is perfectly normal. Hope this helps


. 

life goes on...i really hope ur wrong truely...there at the start of the 4th week.. hand on heart i think adding an extra light put temps too high. also inlet fan was blocked and nutes possilbly too high. 

its a hard knock life....LOL..thanks for the help heres another pic​


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## coolupdscene (Feb 9, 2011)

hey neone know if using apple cider vinegar as a ph down kills mycorrhizae? i used in on some month old clones and the started to get deficient in everything ever since then its been an up and down battle from underfeeding to overfeeding to nutrient lock. i stopped using apple cider vinegar in my teas and just let the ph go i mean i still check it for idk what reason and its usually 6.3 to 7.1 at the highest ive ever seen it. So i flushed the plants with plain water half tap half RO ph of that is usually no higher than 7.15 than i made a tea consisting of 1/4 strength super thrive, 1/4 tbsp/gallon mollasses and 1 tsp/ gallon humic acids 8% along with foxfarm happyfrog soil cause i cant afford mycorrhize right now but i jus strained it in the water then brewed and leached the tea through my pots. let sit for 3 days and theytunedall neon green with purple stems and the purple is almost dark with a slight red hue to it and it seems to climb up the stem with the top leaves a real light green and forming claws also the veins look more exxagerrated on the leaves or more "indentated" i guess is more like it also the one plants got a few fan leaves that are cupped and turned sidewaysat a 90 degree angle and has yellowing and falling leaves in a random order i grow in a coconut/soil mixture. idk but i feel like no matter what i try to do:just leave it alone, give extra light nutes, give normal strength nutes, flush and replenish with balanced ratios and myrobes, just chill and give plain water for a while, foliar feed instead, etcetcetc... ivetried every approach i can think of and it all seems to not be right. i feel like ther is something wrong with the ph but im really reluctant to use apple cider vinegar to lower it cause i think it kills microbes and i cant do that i worked in a hydro warehouse that made me sick cause i couldnt feel nething from those plants t all i could feel was greed and lack of respect for the planet and true life...neways ive narrowed it down to my ph meter being bad or something but when i use the reference 7.0 solution it reads perfect but that to me still doesnt mean ists working perfectly when dipped in another solution its just one of those red digital ph meters from Hanna Instruments and ive heard that they suck...neone else have one? problems? this indoor stuff is making me go looney for real back home we just use good compost and make sure pests are down and just pour water on the plants with the occasional fish and seaweed tea and its all good ne advice with all organic tean and soil/coco indoor growing temps are Veg: 400 watt MH and 4 bulb T% fixture 85day75night avg humidity:40% Flower:400 watt MH and 1000wattHPS 80day65-70night avg humudity25-35% oh yeah i had tinnie little microscopic crawlies in teh soil so i did a pyrethrum/rotenone flush at 1tsp/gal let sit overnight next day did the plain flush as described above and now this is where im at my nutes are teas but i use Age Old Grow, Fish and seaweed and Bloom in the teas all 1 tsp/gal and humic acids 1tsp/gal with 1 handfull earthworm castings per 2-5 gal also mollasses Blackstrap for flower Brer Rabbit for veg(lower in nutes than blackstrap)al 1 tbsp/gal or 1 tsp depending on how much other fertilizer i use like for small plants in 4" pots. oh yeah and the ones in just straight soil or mostly soil are not getting bad as fast mostly potassium def.-leaf edges and tips crisping and yellowing but the yellowing/dying off is more rapid in the coco/soil mixture note also that it seems the yellowing and dying is startig from the bottom while the cupping ,light light green color and clawing and indented veins is starting at the tops and the dark purple/reddish is coming frm the bottom of each branch, not the main stem, and working up


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## DaveCoulier (Feb 10, 2011)

Superdan. I generally try to keep the ec level of my media no higher than 2.0 ms/cm. This is for small plants. Ive even had seedlings in soil that high with no problems. I think you probably should be increasing your nutrient levels. Your plant is alot bigger than mine are right now, and probably are underfed.


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## talktofank1990 (Feb 11, 2011)

Hi I was wandering if anyone could help me out with my plants? I've read the topic but I'm still unsure :S
If anyone has any ideas that would be great!
the plants are c. 4 weeks, lights are 18/4 400w HPS 24inches from the tops. EC is 1.2-1.4 and Ph is 6.1 
thanks to anyone who might have some pointers!


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## coolupdscene (Feb 13, 2011)

I usually let my teas sit in the growroom so they get nice and warm, problem is when i wake up the tea is usually a cool temp but then warms up under the lights after a couple hours...will this temp shift from warm to cool then back to warm kill microes?


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## schmokey (Feb 20, 2011)

Uncle Ben, would you by chance be the infamous Uncle Ben from OG? If so, long time no talk! Good to see ya still doing what you do best.


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## schmokey (Feb 20, 2011)

talktofank1990 said:


> Hi I was wandering if anyone could help me out with my plants?
> the plants are c. 4 weeks, lights are 18/4 400w HPS 24inches from the tops.


For one, for the light you have available, your lamp is WAY too far away from your babes. 

As Uncle Ben points out, you need to concentrate on building a healthy root system first and foremost. Personally, I wouldn't even try to flower plants the size of yours, if you are thinking of doing so yet. I've got babes that are 1 month in veg, standing a nice healthy 1 foot or more in height and without a doubt 4 times the size of yours using cfl's. Not bragging mind you, just saying. Concentrate more on veg time with more blue in the light (for veg, lose the HPS) and work on building a good healthy base.


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## alan2526 (Feb 21, 2011)

I've got 2 plants right now, once cindy I know for sure. I transplanted into FF Ocean Forest on friday...screw miracle-gro...and growth started to pick up again after about a week of no growth. I fed each plant a 1/4 tsp of microblast per gallon of water yesterday, sunday. So, the old growth has horrible yellow,brown, white dying leaves. The new growth after the transplant is not as bad but the tips are starting to whiten/brown. Now the brand new leaf coming out of the apical meristem has tiny yellow spots on the tips. 

Also, the smaller plant's tips are curling upwards, with the identical discoloring of the tips. I think that might be because I clipped the dead leaves off the smaller, lesser developed plant; I heard that was like taking away their immune system. Like the salts are all going to new growth instead of building up on the old/dying leaves...I don't know if this is right though. My light is 18" away, and max temp is 86, when I'm home it's 78-82.

Have I overfed or overwatered them? They usually get it until the water starts coming out the bottom. The dude at the store told me I won't need to feed for a month with Ocean Forest, depending on the strain. I did feed them the microblast...not sure if that was bad. 


Another question...will feeding them diamond nectar really do anything? I've heard alot about Leonardite and humic acid as far as increased metabolism and cell division. Is this ok to use with the Ocean Forest during the first month? Thanks


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## dannyboy602 (Feb 22, 2011)

Yeah I was just readin and readin and all of a sudden i read PYRETRUM. I work in Plant Health Care for a living.
Dude I spray this shit, I have a license from the state and i wouldn't smoke your weed if you put a gun to my head!
Well maybe. But all the talk about going organic I think was good thinking. This thing you grow. It isn't an Orchid or a Clivia. It's called WEED for a reason. 
Put the apple cider vinegar back in the food cabinet. 
I'm a lil biased though. I would only ever grow in soil. Hydro is sooo a waste of money.


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## schmokey (Feb 23, 2011)

Leaf curling of any sort is an indication of nute problems, be it up or down. The key is, why. Rather than thinking "what can I feed them", try thinking "what's not right". For one, Ph is a real killer. If it's high it'll hit you one way, if it's low it'll hit you another, no matter what you make available to the plant. Start with the basics and go from there. Once you're sure you've nailed Ph, lighting, temp and watering, then start looking for issues with nutrient availability.

I know it's not the answer you were hoping for, but....


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## Life Goes On (Feb 23, 2011)

Hello fellow brethren of RIU! I don't quite think I have the whole watering thing down quite yet and it gets really hard for me at this point and time when I transplant to my 7 gallon pots. I have a very hard time knowing when to water my plants. For example right now I can stick my middle finger down into the soil up to the top knuckle before I feel moisture and the soil is pulling away from the edges of the pot. I would think that at this point in time it would be time to water right? Well here's where it gets confusing for me as the pots still seem fairly heavy to me and the soil that is showing through the drainage holes at the bottom of the pots has a wet sponge like texture to it. Should I water? Or should I wait till the pots feel a little lighter? Any help would be much obliged as I think most of my troubles with my 1st grow came from watering issues. Also I know watering depends alot on strain as well but I'm looking for a general guideline. I am growing BubbleBerry and a BubbaKush x BlueWidow if that helps.


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## schmokey (Feb 23, 2011)

> Or should I wait till the pots feel a little lighter?


Noticeably lighter and just before the soil is obviously pulling away from the sides of the pot is generally ideal.


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## Danielsgb (Feb 23, 2011)

dannyboy602 said:


> Yeah I was just readin and readin and all of a sudden i read PYRETRUM. I work in Plant Health Care for a living.
> Dude I spray this shit, I have a license from the state and i wouldn't smoke your weed if you put a gun to my head!
> Well maybe. But all the talk about going organic I think was good thinking. This thing you grow. It isn't an Orchid or a Clivia. It's called WEED for a reason.
> Put the apple cider vinegar back in the food cabinet.
> I'm a lil biased though. I would only ever grow in soil. Hydro is sooo a waste of money.


What is the half life for it? It's based on chrysanthemum so why are you so adamant about not using it.
Apple Cider Vinegar works fine for a pH down for me, so why is it also bad? 
Daniels


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## dannyboy602 (Feb 24, 2011)

Danielsgb said:


> What is the half life for it? It's based on chrysanthemum so why are you so adamant about not using it.
> Apple Cider Vinegar works fine for a pH down for me, so why is it also bad?
> Daniels


 
i just read some interesting info on PYRETHRUMS. there's a member of a species of chrysanthumum that produces pyrethroids which are natural insecticides
and i guess i was wrong about pyrethrum. i'm just squeemish bout insecticides period. idk what u mean by half life. 
yeah pyrethrums actually breakdown in the soil. and they arent harmful to humans except in high doses. 
idk...mb i was thinking permithrin....it's all a blurr.
vinegar into soil makes me uneasy. wouldn't it kill off mycorrhiza? The fungus that benefits life in soil and uptake of additional nutes by plants?
ps...what ph u keep ur grow medium at?


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## Danielsgb (Feb 24, 2011)

I don't think there is Anything to be that worried about.with insecticides. If you follow the label, it's OK. I've used Malathion & it's a strong one. All that stuff has to be tested, and it's safe for vegetables to eat. Half life is how long it lasts. Most stuff is safe two weeks after it's application. I'm being very general, but labels tell you a lot.
On Apple Cider Vinegar only 1 tsp. per gallon drops my pH by about 1 pH, which is down to 6.2 so it works for leeching the soil. It doesn't kill the good bacteria. Remember, there are millions in a 1 gal. pot of soil, & they are tough and diversified.
My soil has a pH of 6.7 but other than the original lab test (thx UB) I never test again. People blame too much on pH issues. It is harder to change a soil's pH than you would believe. I mean a vegetable garden, like 50' x 100'. Soil has an amazing ability to return to it's original pH. 
Daniels


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## dannyboy602 (Feb 25, 2011)

Danielsgb said:


> I don't think there is Anything to be that worried about.with insecticides. If you follow the label, it's OK. I've used Malathion & it's a strong one. All that stuff has to be tested, and it's safe for vegetables to eat. Half life is how long it lasts. Most stuff is safe two weeks after it's application. I'm being very general, but labels tell you a lot.
> On Apple Cider Vinegar only 1 tsp. per gallon drops my pH by about 1 pH, which is down to 6.2 so it works for leeching the soil. It doesn't kill the good bacteria. Remember, there are millions in a 1 gal. pot of soil, & they are tough and diversified.
> My soil has a pH of 6.7 but other than the original lab test (thx UB) I never test again. People blame too much on pH issues. It is harder to change a soil's pH than you would believe. I mean a vegetable garden, like 50' x 100'. Soil has an amazing ability to return to it's original pH.
> Daniels


Yeah I imagine in a vegetable garden of that size it probably would be.
Ok so 1 tsp /gal for apple cider vinegar reduces by one full point....check
Ph 6.5ish.....check
I've read more insecticide labels than I care to remember.....hmmmmm I do have a few questions?
Do you spray, drench and do you only apply during veg stage or any time?
And what do you spray for? Mites? Ever tried safer soaps?
50 x 100 makes my back hurt just thinking about it.


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## Danielsgb (Feb 25, 2011)

dannyboy602 said:


> Yeah I imagine in a vegetable garden of that size it probably would be.
> Ok so 1 tsp /gal for apple cider vinegar reduces by one full point....check
> Ph 6.5ish.....check
> I've read more insecticide labels than I care to remember.....hmmmmm I do have a few questions?
> ...


My veggie garden isn't that big, but if you count all the flower beds it's somewhere in that range. My point was soil returns & the good bacteria is hardy.
With the apple cider vinegar, that is my local tap water so yours may be different. Just know it is an acceptable pH down.
I have used the Dr. Doom Knock Out, & formaticide for spider mites, & I mist with Neem Oil water often too. I've sprayed 3 weeks before harvest before, just try to avoid it. I've used Malathion in the vegetable garden many times, usually sprayed, but I have used a drench too. Mites & powdery mildew have been my only Cannabis pest/disease problems so far.
Daniels


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## dannyboy602 (Feb 25, 2011)

Sounds like ur only problem is mites. Shame. I can only hope they don't make it into my basement...lol thanks






Danielsgb said:


> My veggie garden isn't that big, but if you count all the flower beds it's somewhere in that range. My point was soil returns & the good bacteria is hardy.
> With the apple cider vinegar, that is my local tap water so yours may be different. Just know it is an acceptable pH down.
> I have used the Dr. Doom Knock Out, & formaticide for spider mites, & I mist with Neem Oil water often too. I've sprayed 3 weeks before harvest before, just try to avoid it. I've used Malathion in the vegetable garden many times, usually sprayed, but I have used a drench too. Mites & powdery mildew have been my only Cannabis pest/disease problems so far.
> Daniels


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## greenman882 (Feb 28, 2011)

thank you very much for this!! I found what was wrong within 5 minutes of reading your post. thank you for help saving my young ones!!


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## HomeGrownHairy (Mar 4, 2011)

Never to much light. Looks like too much water!


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## sm0ker420 (Mar 4, 2011)

Hey Uncle bean-Great thread! Bookmarked for sure. Got a lot of catching up to do. I tried sending you a PM but your box is full


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## dr green dre (Mar 19, 2011)

Dwc /4wks flower ..Ph 6.0 ...ec.19 ..26.c
Im not sure whats wrong with this one ,i noticed it 2 days ago any ideas,,


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## killeroxx (Mar 20, 2011)

they dont look they they have any damage bud...nice grow by the way  but by the looks of em"wet leafs" they might be over watered possibly from spraying to often or watering or both  let them dry up a bit and we can see how they look then...thats just my guess..have to watch closely tho keep us posted on here


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## killeroxx (Mar 20, 2011)

also through out the day the leafs will raise up and lay down up down up down and so on i see parts of the plant A-OK like the one towards the left ..there not necessarily curling from what im seeing...no curling of seraded edges of the fan blades...like I said lets let em use that water up a bit and see what she does...i tend to do this to my plants once in a while not a bad thing really just dont do it all the time if you do then ull tend to have less resin build up on the leafs which you dont want


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## dr green dre (Mar 20, 2011)

killeroxx said:


> they dont look they they have any damage bud...nice grow by the way  but by the looks of em"wet leafs" they might be over watered possibly from spraying to often or watering or both  let them dry up a bit and we can see how they look then...thats just my guess..have to watch closely tho keep us posted on here





killeroxx said:


> also through out the day the leafs will raise up and lay down up down up down and so on i see parts of the plant A-OK like the one towards the left ..there not necessarily curling from what im seeing...no curling of seraded edges of the fan blades...like I said lets let em use that water up a bit and see what she does...i tend to do this to my plants once in a while not a bad thing really just dont do it all the time if you do then ull tend to have less resin build up on the leafs which you dont want


Killer thanks for the reply.. i think your right on the overwatering , ive been foliar feeding them a little bit to much recently.\i forget even hydro can be overwater!! Going to stop the spraying for now.

DGD..


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## killeroxx (Mar 20, 2011)

ya just to see  if its not that we will figure it out then only time will tell


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## Timmahh (Mar 20, 2011)

ends of leaf twisting around? have this showing on a clone. only on 2 leaves.
clones are 3 weeks cut under a CMH 400w bult at 4ft. one clone was 3 to 5 days cut older than the 2nd. Pics are just a few hrs ago.
Happy Frog and just water for the first 2 weeks. 5 days ago they got a water with 1/4 strenth DynaGro Foiliage pro, and 1/4 tesp Pro Tekt in a gallon. both plants shared about a qt that water, they LOOK like they have started to untwist a big.
straight water 2 days ago, and will get another fed water here in a bit.


using my well water. phs around 7.5 out of the tap. not sure on its ppm and breakdown.

So what would cause this type of leaf twist? only 2 of the leaves on the larger girl have it severly, and both have wavy leaves, but only a few of the oldest leaves exhibit this charicteristic. both came from the same mom, who also has this triat/issue. could this be a genetics thing, therefor not really changeable, thus nothing to worry about? im just wondering if what is causing the twist, may also limit growth, size, and/or strength?

Read ALOT of your threads over the last 3 months UB. much respect for your Degree in Hard Knocks. Im in my mid 40s, and still at school, though i think if we are breathing, we should be atleast still trying to learn. 

any info/help/recommendations on my "twist, twist" is greatly appreciated. RH is about 25 to 28%, room is 68ish at dark and 78 to 80ish on light. 18/6 lighting. 


check mid leaf on left at tip. you can see its actually flipped 180* around.
this is the older girl by 4ish days cut. 







here is the younger girl (3 weeks cut tonight about right now at 8:30pm)
you can see the same area that the leaf is twisting over to reveal the underside ever so slightly.






suggestions? 
and ty for any i get.


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## Benny4658 (Mar 23, 2011)

today my plants look like they need water or something because the plants are drooping over, the tops just hang down. I have an indoor grow. could it be they got to cold or to hot? I want to change the light to flower but not if the plants are stressed out. Any help would help.


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## The Coral Reefer (Mar 23, 2011)

Hey guys. I'm a noob lol I have some LR2 seeds and germinated them fine. They sprouted up and I added another light and went to work and when I came home my 5 little sprouts were pissed off. I was too much heat. The extra light was hotter than I expected and dried up the plants and a lot of the soil. I am doing what I can but the poor little sprouts are in bad shape. 2 out of 5 are a dullish green, 1 looks a terrible yellow and the other 2 are still green. The plants are "remoistured" but I am not sure if they will recover. Has this happened to anyone else? Any advice? I have 4 more LR2 seeds and I will germinate them if these poor little sprouts dont make it. I have also read the article on too much heat (I pasted it at the bottom of this article) and my sprouts have the same symptoms as described in the article but I am still in need of advice, or support! Lol I'm pretty bummed over all this cause its my first time.

"High Heat - the plant is losing water via its leaves faster than what can be replaced by the root system. The leaf responds by leaf margin cupping or rolling (up or down) in order to conserve moisture. A good example is reflected by the appearance of broad-bladed turf grass on a hot summer day, high noon, with low soil moisture levels - the leaf blade will roll in and the grass will take on a dull, greyish-green appearance. Upon sunrise when moisture levels have returned to normal, the leaf blade will be flat. Lower the heat and concentrate on developing a large, robust root system by practicing sound plant culture. An efficient and effective root system will go a long way to prevent heat induced leaf dessication and leaf margin curling by supplying sufficient moisture for good plant health. One short episode of high heat is enough to permanently destroy leaf tissue and cause a general decline in the leaves affected, which often occurs to leaves found at the top of the plant located near HID lamps. The damaged leaf (usually) does not recover, no matter what you do. Bummer in the summer. One can only look to new growth for indications that the problem has been corrected."


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## Rcb (Mar 27, 2011)

you said too much light can actually be harmful for the plants if i am growing indoors and have a room going 24hours a day of light for veg is that bad?


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## The Coral Reefer (Mar 28, 2011)

I'm far from an expert but I know that most strains need 18 hours on and 6 off for vegitation and 12/12 for flowering. The seeds that I had were Lowryder 2 seeds which were autoflowering and didnt mind the 24 hour light but probably wanted 20/4 light. Too much light can cause heat which can kill sprouts apparently. My fault. Hope this helps!


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## karr (Mar 29, 2011)

light cycles 24 vs 18/6 is a very often heated debate. It really goes either way depending on preference/cost

the 24 hour light guys claim (and this is backed by some good science) that since cannabis is a type of plant (cant remember class) that does not need a dark period to photosynthesize. more light = more growth. More light also means less stretch

the 18 hour guys say stored energy in the roots translates to explosive growth when lights go out. but most recognize that this is due to stretching for light when lights are out. 18 hour light is also less electricity, and less wear on your lights. 

the one thing i can say is that 24 hour light = tight bushy plant, 18hr light= stretching plant, to most it looks normal not talking huge lanky stretch.


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## Fullapine (Mar 29, 2011)

have one that has three leaves, one that is much smaller than others and curling in.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 30, 2011)

Timmahh said:


> ends of leaf twisting around? have this showing on a clone. only on 2 leaves.
> clones are 3 weeks cut under a CMH 400w bult at 4ft. one clone was 3 to 5 days cut older than the 2nd. Pics are just a few hrs ago.
> Happy Frog and just water for the first 2 weeks. 5 days ago they got a water with 1/4 strenth DynaGro Foiliage pro, and 1/4 tesp Pro Tekt in a gallon. both plants shared about a qt that water, they LOOK like they have started to untwist a big.
> straight water 2 days ago, and will get another fed water here in a bit.
> ...


Sheesh, been a coon's age since I visited this thread. Don't know what caused the twist, but I wouldn't worry about it. As long as the leaves are still green and productive, you'll be fine.

Good luck,
UB


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## thewireman (Mar 30, 2011)

I have the plants in the tub with water, (Areoponics?) Anyways, I changed the water not too long ago, but when I picked up one of the plants, there will be like some white stuff on the roots and water would wash it away, (is that salt?) does it mean that i have too much plant food? the leaves are curling, and has some brown spots on it. Help!


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## james gordon (Mar 30, 2011)

have no idea whats wrong with my plant. 1st time grow, got the plant already about 11inch tall. the stem of the plant seems brital and too small, the leafs are curling down, im growing outside too. here are some pictures. also have no idea what strain it is


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## janbado (Mar 31, 2011)

is my plant normal,it has 3 leafs,http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5575792597/
my plant is 3weeks old


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 31, 2011)

thewireman said:


> I have the plants in the tub with water, (Areoponics?) Anyways, I changed the water not too long ago, but when I picked up one of the plants, there will be like some white stuff on the roots and water would wash it away, (is that salt?) does it mean that i have too much plant food? the leaves are curling, and has some brown spots on it. Help!


Could be mold.



james gordon said:


> have no idea whats wrong with my plant. 1st time grow, got the plant already about 11inch tall. the stem of the plant seems brital and too small, the leafs are curling down, im growing outside too. here are some pictures. also have no idea what strain it is


Looks like the root system is toast. Too much water, too big a pot, soil is too tight, not enough foliage to wick the water out of the root zone? It's anyone's guess.


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## bholcomb1991 (Mar 31, 2011)

OK so I am currently growing an auto flower russian rocket fuel outdoors. its 20 days old and still no sign of male or female is this bad? Or is it just a slow grower


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## Duke Decker (Apr 1, 2011)

Well done uncle Ben. Wish that I had seen this post a month ago.


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 1, 2011)

Duke Decker said:


> Well done uncle Ben. Wish that I had seen this post a month ago.


It's all about botany mah man.


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## still rollin em (Apr 2, 2011)

Hello! Got these little gold flecks on my leaves. Can u tell what it is??


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## blackkedout (Apr 11, 2011)

spider mites i beleive.


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## killeroxx (Apr 11, 2011)

spyder mite eggs under the leaves would cause dead spots on top of the leaves do to draining energy from the spot its latched on too...they usualy populate towards the middle of the plant...u can see the adults crawling around if you pay close attention....but I do not think thats whats wrong with urs...Im thinking it may be a trace mineral problem..there are secondary nutes so to say that the plants need like calcium, sulfur, and magnesium they ensure highly concentrated photosynthesis to happen, so the growth is good and it developes like it should or nicely.there are trace minerals it needs like boran,copper, molybdenum, zinc, iron and manganese. Only little amounts are needed, BUT they are indispensable to the overall well being of your plants. All these nutes work together to keep constent healthy plant development going bro  good luck


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## DesertSativa (Apr 13, 2011)

bholcomb1991 said:


> OK so I am currently growing an auto flower russian rocket fuel outdoors. its 20 days old and still no sign of male or female is this bad? Or is it just a slow grower


It should be showing any day now.


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## chief blunts (Apr 13, 2011)

hey riu, ran into a little dilemma only a nooby could pull off,

so a little backround- ff of- seedlings 2.5wks- 300+ w cfl.

heres what i did that some of you first timers can learn from...

so i thought i could skip a transplant or two and put my seedlings straight into 1 g pots (against the warning of the local shop owner) my theory being i could just spray them and only water them what they needed, BIG mistake, at about the 2 wk mark my little family started marbling (for lack of a better term) some rusting type spots on some, yellow edges on some and some both, i couldn't for the life of me figure it out(till finding this thread) well long story short i must have nutes/salts built up from not properly watering(enough to drain out and flush out the build up so to speak)

now heres my dilemma, they are still growing BUT-I fear that if I flush them out in these 1g pots the roots wont be able to soak up the water from the bottom of the pot, leaving me with possible root rot, also not knowing how healthy and long my roots are how do i go about fixing this?????? meaning how can i transplant back to smaller pots if its even possible-not knowing how big my rootball's are???

i wanted to start flowering in the next day or two seeing as i am fighting the warm weather in my area (just picked up 596 watts of 2700k)

any advice from you experienced guys, i don't want to lose my 100% indica genetics as all i have left is pure sativa beans, which in turn would take even longer and put my room at ungodly temps should the weather not hold out for me.

am i completely assed out? does this rookie move kill my chances at flowering being done in the next 2 2.5 months?- its a tough way to learn a lesson thats for sure- but goes to show you what trying to take shortcuts gets you..

thanks in advance riu family


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 14, 2011)

chief blunts said:


> hey riu, ran into a little dilemma only a nooby could pull off,
> 
> so a little backround- ff of- seedlings 2.5wks- 300+ w cfl.
> 
> ...


I germ and grow for quite a while in 1 gal. pots, nothing wrong with that. Sounds like you don't have your watering technique down pat. Overwatering is usually not a problem if you have plenty of foliage and a healthy root system. It's an issue of the exclusion of air that's the problem.

Good luck,
UB


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## msblaze1 (Apr 15, 2011)

i have a problem with my girls, the hairs are turn like this in the very bottom of my plant, what does this mean? View attachment 1552967


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## chief blunts (Apr 24, 2011)

thank you much Uncle Ben, that was indeed my problem, no idea how i got away with it on past grows (maybe something to do with the beautiful climate of CA.

i narrowed it down to being a Calcium deficiency, mixed up some bone meal and ph'ed it after adding it, all my little ones perked up and the "marbling" is no longer continuing.....

much thanks from the bottom of my heart bud- your a good man!


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## killeroxx (Apr 25, 2011)

msblaze1 said:


> i have a problem with my girls, the hairs are turn like this in the very bottom of my plant, what does this mean? View attachment 1552967


There just damaged...maybe you touched or bumped it somehow no worrys


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## db2 (May 8, 2011)

Hi, I have read a lot of this thread but I would still like an expert opinion before I come to conclusions. These are 2 LSD strains (day 27 veg) which are looking somewhat small and the stems are looking quite weak causing a droop in the leaves. Also, there are a few lower leaves that are folding downwards at the tips. Any diagnosis for these? Im thinking its from underwatering but I am not sure.

View attachment 1589577

I water these every 48 hours with about 1/5 gallon of water per plant. I use a 400w hps in a 4x4x7 mylar room with 3 gallon pots where temps are generally 84-86 lights on and 45% humidity lights on 70% humidity lights off. Unfortunately I can't seal the grow room until I get my duct fan in the mail because heat gets in the mid 90s when it is closed off during lights on.


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## rosecitypapa (May 8, 2011)

If I had your environment, I'd focus on cooling the room to the high 70's and raising the humidity at least into the mid 50% during lights on.


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## killeroxx (May 8, 2011)

db2 said:


> Hi, I have read a lot of this thread but I would still like an expert opinion before I come to conclusions. These are 2 LSD strains (day 27 veg) which are looking somewhat small and the stems are looking quite weak causing a droop in the leaves. Also, there are a few lower leaves that are folding downwards at the tips. Any diagnosis for these? Im thinking its from underwatering but I am not sure.
> 
> View attachment 1589577View attachment 1589578
> 
> I water these every 48 hours with about 1/5 gallon of water per plant. I use a 400w hps in a 4x4x7 mylar room with 3 gallon pots where temps are generally 84-86 lights on and 45% humidity lights on 70% humidity lights off. Unfortunately I can't seal the grow room until I get my duct fan in the mail because heat gets in the mid 90s when it is closed off during lights on.


you need a dehumidifier to run at night and better exhaust.....you could be watering them to much looks like...and im seeing heat stress on the first pic...has the room gotten to 90 or more a few times before? Are these autos? If so they are perfect hight for there age  What are you useing to move air threw the room??


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## db2 (May 8, 2011)

killeroxx said:


> you need a dehumidifier to run at night and better exhaust.....you could be watering them to much looks like...and im seeing heat stress on the first pic...has the room gotten to 90 or more a few times before? Are these autos? If so they are perfect hight for there age  What are you useing to move air threw the room??


I did have them in the 90s (90-97) for a few hours a couple times before because I left the grow room closed all the way. I generally have to leave one of the sides open so I can keep temps in 80s. Im waiting on my inline duct fan to come in the mail in the next couple of days so I can connect it to my cooling tube, hopefully it will get the temps in the hi 70s. These are Barneys Farm LSDs photoperiod unfortunately lol...

How come you feel they are overwatered? Also, is 70% bad in vegetation? I could just turn on my fan during lights off(the one I use during lights on...)


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## db2 (May 8, 2011)

rosecitypapa said:


> If I had your environment, I'd focus on cooling the room to the high 70's and raising the humidity at least into the mid 50% during lights on.


any ways to increase humidity without buying anything? lol


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## rosecitypapa (May 8, 2011)

db2 said:


> any ways to increase humidity without buying anything? lol


Strategically placed wet towels hanging in water containers near fans. You can get cheap humidifiers at Goodwill.


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## db2 (May 8, 2011)

rosecitypapa said:


> Strategically placed wet towels hanging in water containers near fans. You can get cheap humidifiers at Goodwill.


I'll try it out, thanks


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## Life Goes On (May 8, 2011)

db2 said:


> I did have them in the 90s (90-97) for a few hours a couple times before because I left the grow room closed all the way. I generally have to leave one of the sides open so I can keep temps in 80s. Im waiting on my inline duct fan to come in the mail in the next couple of days so I can connect it to my cooling tube, hopefully it will get the temps in the hi 70s. These are Barneys Farm LSDs photoperiod unfortunately lol...
> 
> How come you feel they are overwatered? Also, is 70% bad in vegetation? I could just turn on my fan during lights off(the one I use during lights on...)


No. During the vegetative state you want humidity to be ABOVE 50% for flowering you want it to be at about 50%. I believe killeroxx feels as if you might be overwatering because your leaves are drooping on your plants. You only want to water if you stick your finger in the soil to about the second knuckle and you feel no moisture. Another good way to tell when its time to water is by feeling how heavy your pots are. If they are much lighter compared to when you watered them last then it's time to water again. Also there is no key amount of water to give a weed plant. Water till there is a GOOD runoff from the drain holes in your pot. I typically water about once a week when my plants are about your plants size and maybe 2 or 3 times a week once they are full grown. Good luck and Happy Growing!


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## TDM (May 9, 2011)

Prep and planning, and a general idea of what you are doing is the key, the rest will take care of itself.
Have some great genetics but screwed up drainage in two pots...many bases to cover to get it right.
By my stupidity, I have three choices, re-pot after two months veg, bud the plant, or destroy it, all over neglect on my part.
Simple mistake that caused major avoidable problems. "Keep it Simple, Stupid".


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## Uncle Ben (May 9, 2011)

db2 said:


> Unfortunately I can't seal the grow room until I get my duct fan in the mail because heat gets in the mid 90s when it is closed off during lights on.


How do they look "at dawn", just as the lights come on? Sounds like heat stress to me and for whatever reason the plants are not getting enough moisture either via a rotten root system (over watering) or insufficient watering.


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## db2 (May 9, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> How do they look "at dawn", just as the lights come on? Sounds like heat stress to me and for whatever reason the plants are getting enough moisture either via a rotten root system (over watering) or insufficient watering.


The leaves were slightly less droopy but the stems were still looking weak and being weighted down by some of the bigger leaves when the lights come on. I watered every 2 days but I usually split 1 gallon of water between these 5 3 gallon pots. I feel that I am underwatering if anything because I wasn't fully saturating the soil from top to bottom. Is this why my plants are so small? Yesterday I watered until I saw runoff and I noticed a lot of improvement in the plants droopiness this morning and more growth than usual as well.


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## DesertSativa (May 9, 2011)

db2 said:


> The leaves were slightly less droopy but the stems were still looking weak and being weighted down by some of the bigger leaves when the lights come on. I watered every 2 days but I usually split 1 gallon of water between these 5 3 gallon pots. I feel that I am underwatering if anything because I wasn't fully saturating the soil from top to bottom. Is this why my plants are so small? Yesterday I watered until I saw runoff and I noticed a lot of improvement in the plants droopiness this morning and more growth than usual as well.


When I water I have a lot of run off. My plants are in half-filled 5 gallon grow bags and I pour about a gallon of solution through each plant when I water. It ensures me the soil is thoroughly moist and rinses the used fertilizer salts away.


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## Uncle Ben (May 9, 2011)

db2 said:


> The leaves were slightly less droopy but the stems were still looking weak and being weighted down by some of the bigger leaves when the lights come on. I watered every 2 days but I usually split 1 gallon of water between these 5 3 gallon pots. I feel that I am underwatering if anything because I wasn't fully saturating the soil from top to bottom. Is this why my plants are so small? Yesterday I watered until I saw runoff and I noticed a lot of improvement in the plants droopiness this morning and more growth than usual as well.


Stunted plants are usually a result of not enough water and N.


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## db2 (May 9, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> Stunted plants are usually a result of not enough water and N.


Today the plants started off with a lot of life (the leaves were green and stems were firm). Unfortunately throughout the day the leaves get a little droopy. Is this normal? This is all starting to confuse me lol...


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## GFUNK412 (May 13, 2011)

View attachment 1597923View attachment 1597922

are these young girls ok?leaves are drooping for last 2 days


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## 420kid420 (May 15, 2011)

Hello. can someone please help me? the leaves seem to be really droopy and curl in a bit. btw first grow


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## DesertSativa (May 15, 2011)

Seems fine, don't worry. Just don't over-water it!


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## 420kid420 (May 16, 2011)

thank you,ill make sure i dnt over water.


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## NitroHydro (May 20, 2011)

I have know idea what is wrong with my plants, well only two have some signs of a problem.

White Widow strain I have them on a 18/6 light cycle using CFL durning the morning and evening but durning the day I put them under a southfacing window. The problem showed up after I flushed the soil to get rid of salts. My ph is 6.6 and I water with tap water that has been out for 24 hours. The only firtlizer I have mix was 20-20-20. The instructions says to mix 5 ml with 1 liter of water. I did 2.5 ml in 1.5 liter of water. So it can't be nut burn. 

This is the pic of the marble pigment.

This pic is of the leaf twisting/curling.


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## Chronic Monster (May 25, 2011)

Is this the same Uncle Ben who is listed in the Cannabis Grow Bible by Jorge Cervantes?


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## DesertSativa (May 25, 2011)

Chronic Monster said:


> Is this the same Uncle Ben who is listed in the Cannabis Grow Bible by Jorge Cervantes?


No, this is the rice guy.


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## Danielsgb (May 25, 2011)

Chronic Monster said:


> Is this the same Uncle Ben who is listed in the Cannabis Grow Bible by Jorge Cervantes?


Yep, same Uncle Ben.


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## Purple people eater (Jun 11, 2011)

Hi i have twemty ounce cups soil 1 23watt cfl and a 18inch 15 watt 6500k light miricle grow garden soil now my bottom leaves are white with stems turning black just the bottom leaves so far anyway have picture on otjer thread called plants growing slow and leaves v shaped twisting and curling but there soo small too over a month old please help


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## rolas (Jun 12, 2011)

Hey, first grow here. I planted this bagseed baby in a small pot (0.5 gal?) on my window sill, about 6 weeks ago, my medium is 50% sterile garden soil, 50% biologically active home made worm castings. The medium takes a little bit to take moisture in, but I (think) I'm sufficiently careful not to overwater. In this pot I watered daily (the temp where I live right now has been about 85 - 100 F daily, with very low relative humidity). The plant had about 6 hours of full direct sunlight. Everything was going good, no pests, no spots on the leaves (maybe just the very bottom ones and cotyledons) and grew very well.

I recently (maybe 10 days) transplanted to a bigger pot (about 3 gal) with the same medium, and moved the plant over to the roof, where it gets about 8 hrs of direct sunlight, the heat has been the same and the same goes for relative humidity. But as you can see, the plant doesn't seem to be faring perfectly. I have damage in the edge of the leaves, which started from the bottom of the plant upwards. I'm pretty sure it's not nutrient burn, as I haven't added any fertilizers as of yet (since worm castings have given me pretty good results on other plants). About overwatering, I'm doing it every other day now, or less often if I feel the pot is still heavy, so I think that would not be the problem. The plant has grown pretty fast, currently about 1.2+ ft (when transplanted, about 4 or 5 inches of main stem got buried to promote roots), and I just did a FIM topping. The pics are from yesterday just before the FIM.

So what do you say, nute burn, lack of nutrients, overwatering, underwatering, heat shock, not sufficient hardening when moving it to the roof... I'm pretty much lost... 

I'm thinking of another transplant, still in the hot and sunny roof (no other option for me) to a 5.3 gal planter, adding 1/4 of perlite or something similar to get better drainage. I wouldn't want to use synthetic ferts (there are no organic ferts where I live), but I will do it if necessary. Any thoughts? 

Help please!!


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## Purple people eater (Jun 13, 2011)

Hahaha ur plant is like a foot taller than mine and 2weeks younger


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## rolas (Jun 13, 2011)

I guess growing in the tropics has it's advantages (and IF it's a heat problem, clearly some disadvantages too!)


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## Befamousvideo (Jun 15, 2011)

The newest system I tried solved over and under watering and nutrient problems and all my plants thrive now. I learned about this from a friend who grows medical grade for his dispensary. They are capillary action self watering pots. Simple and low cost. Try these and be happy. The site is 420GS.com. 

Free the weed!
What is the deal with DEA handing out 55 grow licenses to big pharma companies?!!!


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## jjfoo (Jun 16, 2011)

rolas said:


> Any thoughts?


Next time you water do this

give about half the water your normally do, then wait for about 30 min, then give the rest, water enough to get some run off

measure the EC of the runoff, 

If you EC goes up too fast and the plant doesn't have time to build up salt it will simply lose water and it will have the appearance of being under watered

plants can take high EC's but they must not change rapidly or it can pull salt out of the plant (if it drops too fast) or can pull water out of the plant (up to fast)

this can happen if you have a lot of evaporation


I'd also suggest sparying some pure water on it

If the measured EC is say above 6, that could mean it is climbing rapidly, it could also mean it got their slowly and is no problem, you have to measure it several times over a week to see the trend

so a high EC isn't really bad, you have to measure it day be day or week by week to get an idea if you want to really understand the reading in the context of


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## weedlover2011 (Jun 19, 2011)

Great Thread, 

any help with this plant:


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## dam (Jun 21, 2011)

All this needs is some pics and it's a masterpiece  Good read.


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## Produkt (Jun 29, 2011)

Hi guys, so I have two plants growing right now, I am doing the exact same watering for both, one of them is growing very nice and loks great, the other one however keeps displaying yellow/brown crispy edges on the bottoms leaves. I thought it was too much nutrients ast first so I changed to just straight water for that one, I still keep losing bottom leaves on this one plant and as of lately it seems to have stopped growing. I know it is not root bound, I thought that it was over nutrient but must not be. What do you guys think? They are in dirt.


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## Mauler57 (Jul 6, 2011)

Very informative thread. I'm lovin' RIU


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## wyteboi (Jul 6, 2011)

Produkt said:


> Hi guys, so I have two plants growing right now, I am doing the exact same watering for both, one of them is growing very nice and loks great, the other one however keeps displaying yellow/brown crispy edges on the bottoms leaves. I thought it was too much nutrients ast first so I changed to just straight water for that one, I still keep losing bottom leaves on this one plant and as of lately it seems to have stopped growing. I know it is not root bound, I thought that it was over nutrient but must not be. What do you guys think? They are in dirt.


they need more food not less , i can tell without even knowing anything else. are you growing "organically" ?



wyteboi


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## Produkt (Jul 9, 2011)

I think you may be right, I've upped the nutrients and it seems to be helping./ 
what do u mean by "organically" ?


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## wyteboi (Jul 13, 2011)

Produkt said:


> I think you may be right, I've upped the nutrients and it seems to be helping./
> what do u mean by "organically" ?


which food do you use?


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## Dubbz0r (Jul 14, 2011)

I see a lot of posts about over watering symptoms and such, but how do you fix a plant that is stressing from being over watered?

On the last page in my journal there are pics of my lemon skunk plants. The new growth has been wilting or rolling down for the last 4 days with no signs of improvement. The older leaves are straight and dark green, which is the norm for this strain but I can't seem to find a "fix" for the wilting/drooping. Someone suggested a nice h202 and water solution once they dry out. Would this solution help my babies or if there is something else I can do, what? Any help is appreciated!


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## lbezphil2005 (Jul 18, 2011)

1.25ml of 35%h202 per gal of water, water to flush. what are the temps/rh in your room and how often have you been watering in what medium


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## Dubbz0r (Jul 18, 2011)

Fox Farm, Happy Frog and worm castings is the medium. Originally I was watering these LS ladies with my other two strains, every other day. I have blue cheese and master kush that take water just about every day now. Lights on temp is 83-86F (rH between 44-51%) and lights off I keep it around 75F (rH never gets above 60%).

I was advised by a few people that a flush followed by a light nute solution would help so that's what I did last night. Hoping to see a change in their progress tonight when the lights come on. Wish me luck!


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## lbezphil2005 (Jul 25, 2011)

watering every other day in fox farms is way too much water unless your roots are filling the pot and it's sucking all that water up that soon. If you are showing leaf cupping but only on the new growth, did you transplant recently, anything different>? I use basically the same mix and I only water every 4-6 days depending on the size of my girls, my thirstiest one only drinks every 4 days bro. Any more water and you are getting too much. How big are your pots?


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## Dubbz0r (Jul 25, 2011)

lbezphil2005 said:


> watering every other day in fox farms is way too much water unless your roots are filling the pot and it's sucking all that water up that soon. If you are showing leaf cupping but only on the new growth, did you transplant recently, anything different>? I use basically the same mix and I only water every 4-6 days depending on the size of my girls, my thirstiest one only drinks every 4 days bro. Any more water and you are getting too much. How big are your pots?


If I don't give them water every day, my plants wilt. As soon as I water them, they perk back up. They're in 5 gal warrior pots and are extremely thirsty girls (except the lemon skunk). Week 4 of flower just started yesterday. The temp in their room has gone up this week thanks to the major heatwave that hit us. At some point it was up to 93F. I run a 70 pint dehumidifier during lights off along with 4 box fans and an a/c unit. rH is always between 40-47%. Anyways, I'm coming to the conclusion that the lemon skunk ladies were not over watered but were suffering from heat stress. Two 1000w hps were running approx. 12" from canopy. I raised them up to 16" recently. The flush and nute feed seemed to help the LS for the most part. Now they're just trying to catch up to their roommates.


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## oHsiN666 (Jul 28, 2011)

Hello! i have been experiencing some major problems with my first grow. i am using Sunshine Mix #4. im using 1 gallon containers. the room temp is between 77-81. humidity is between 45-50. sometimes it creeps a little lower, sometimes its creeps a little higher. i have a 12" circular fan osolating at all times. they are in veg at 24 hrs of light per day on 4-bulb 4 foot florescent lights. i have been watering only when the containers are light and have been feeding them: starting the first few feeds with Botanicare's line of Pro Grow for hydro, Liquid Karma and Cal Mag. all at 3.75ml per gal the first 3 feeds then jumped to 5ml per gal the last 2 feeds. i have been on a every other day watering schedule. R/O water all the time. i have been loosing A LOT of leafs. i hear that is normal from some growers, and not normal form others. i have probably lost about 2 full plants worth of leafs. all the leafs on the bottom are the problematic leafs. all growth from the middle up looks really good. they dont have that luscious green almost leathery look (im colorblind, thats the best i can describe healthy looking plants) im getting really nervous that this is a bigger problem than i think it is. growth is still very active. the plants are in there 5th week of life, started from seed. they seem like there growing fine, the growth at the top looks healthy. i am highly confused. i have grown once before in soil back in the mid nineties (god, that ages me...lol) and this is my first hydro grow. i check the ph at the end of every neut mixing and it appears to be at 6.0 (using the color coded drops with PH UP & DOWN). i have lost a shit ton of leafs and im getting majorly concerned. can anyone tell me what im doing wrong? the lights are about a half an inch above the tallest plant which is at 17.5inches. the others are about 12inches. the tallest plants are on the left and right of the light and the shortest plant being in the middle with an arch from left to right. i have developed a small gnat problem but am slowly dealing with that issue as organically as possible. i know the line of nuets im using are organic based. i was referred by everyone (online) to get FOXFARM. didnt find enough positive things to use it, guy at the store knew exactly what i was going for when i told him the style of grow i want to do. and he referred me to BC's line of nuets. i started using all 3 of the BC products i picked up and have not seen any promising results yet!! i have been using them for over a week now, just about 2 weeks. an nothing. very slight tip burn, possible neut burn, but those marks on the leafs where there before i started using the nuets. 

please help me!! if you need pics, just ask. i have some from about a week ago. but i can get updated ones asap!!! i need advise asap!! the lights seem to be in the correct position. my waterings are not excessive, anyways i dont think they are. what am i doing wrong?? what am i not doing right? im dying to know!!!!


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## blackxs (Jul 29, 2011)

Dubbz0r said:


> If I don't give them water every day, my plants wilt. As soon as I water them, they perk back up. They're in 5 gal warrior pots and are extremely thirsty girls (except the lemon skunk). Week 4 of flower just started yesterday. The temp in their room has gone up this week thanks to the major heatwave that hit us. At some point it was up to 93F. I run a 70 pint dehumidifier during lights off along with 4 box fans and an a/c unit. rH is always between 40-47%. Anyways, I'm coming to the conclusion that the lemon skunk ladies were not over watered but were suffering from heat stress. Two 1000w hps were running approx. 12" from canopy. I raised them up to 16" recently. The flush and nute feed seemed to help the LS for the most part. Now they're just trying to catch up to their roommates.


There is no "correct" way to water. Some plants are thirsty, some hardly drink. Your doing it right, feed to your plant's needs not to what some book or internet strange says. 93 is definitely a little too hot. Growth slows above about 83F, stops at about 87-90, damage above 90. 


bigbud888 said:


> Check out my time lapse vid and tell me whatcha think.


I think you should have put the camera in the same place each picture.
I also think putting reflective material directly under and touching the leaves is a ridiculously bad idea.


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## Dubbz0r (Jul 29, 2011)

blackxs said:


> There is no "correct" way to water. Some plants are thirsty, some hardly drink. Your doing it right, feed to your plant's needs not to what some book or internet strange says. 93 is definitely a little too hot. Growth slows above about 83F, stops at about 87-90, damage above 90.


I have to disagree with this a little. My room right now is currently at 88F. It's definitely not where I want it to be but I'm blasting my c02 over 2000ppm. I've read that high c02 ppm's can help a plant strive in a high temperature environment. My plants seem to be flourishing under these conditions thus far but we'll see how the end result is...


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## blackxs (Jul 30, 2011)

C02 can definitely help in high temperature conditions, but generally, growth will slow above 83/85.

If at all possible, lower your temps to about 80 and see if your plants dont enjoy it more. I bet they will. And while C02 may help mitigate any ill effects of temperature, it can be a tradeoff because you have to turn ventilation off to run it which lets things get hotter. Unless your running a closed setup. In which case I think no-C02 running 10 degrees cooler would be better. Just IMO, but what do I know - I only have so few posts


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## Dubbz0r (Jul 30, 2011)

blackxs said:


> C02 can definitely help in high temperature conditions, but generally, growth will slow above 83/85.
> 
> If at all possible, lower your temps to about 80 and see if your plants dont enjoy it more. I bet they will. And while C02 may help mitigate any ill effects of temperature, it can be a tradeoff because you have to turn ventilation off to run it which lets things get hotter. Unless your running a closed setup. In which case I think no-C02 running 10 degrees cooler would be better. Just IMO, but what do I know - I only have so few posts


haha I didn't say anything about your post count dude! My temps are high, I know that much. I would definitely like them lower but it's what I have to deal with for now. We got hammered with that heat wave a week or so ago and I haven't been able to bring the heat back down below 88F. Basically I stopped trying to fight it. My plants will be moving to a new place within the next week or two where it will keep a steady 83F, so until then they will have to be fine. My setup is closed but the fan cooling my hoods is outside of the room. Without central air in this house it's pretty tough to keep the basement cool with the ass end of my a/c unit heating the entire thing. So the air used to cool my hoods isn't very cool at all. That might be just as warm as the air in the room itself. It sucks but...it is what it is, for now...


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## doublegrow7 (Jul 30, 2011)

Question: im 7 weeks into flowering, 1000 watt light, og, around 6.5 ft. fox farm nutes, all of my plants are looking super but two days ago one had her leaves droop dramaticly. just one. all the leaves seem to be dieing flowers are much smaller then her sisters and the pistols are turning orange. shes not taking up water like she use to. they all got the same treatment, so wtf went wrong? can she be saved.


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## lbezphil2005 (Aug 1, 2011)

Dubbz0r said:


> If I don't give them water every day, my plants wilt. As soon as I water them, they perk back up. They're in 5 gal warrior pots and are extremely thirsty girls (except the lemon skunk). Week 4 of flower just started yesterday. The temp in their room has gone up this week thanks to the major heatwave that hit us. At some point it was up to 93F. I run a 70 pint dehumidifier during lights off along with 4 box fans and an a/c unit. rH is always between 40-47%. Anyways, I'm coming to the conclusion that the lemon skunk ladies were not over watered but were suffering from heat stress. Two 1000w hps were running approx. 12" from canopy. I raised them up to 16" recently. The flush and nute feed seemed to help the LS for the most part. Now they're just trying to catch up to their roommates.


the reason they wilt is because they are already in stress from overwatering, the roots arent developed enought for the canopy it's supporting. It's okay, I don't know anything, listen to @#$%^&, he's the expert.


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## lbezphil2005 (Aug 1, 2011)

blackxs said:


> There is no "correct" way to water. Some plants are thirsty, some hardly drink. Your doing it right, feed to your plant's needs not to what some book or internet strange says. 93 is definitely a little too hot. Growth slows above about 83F, stops at about 87-90, damage above 90.
> 
> I think you should have put the camera in the same place each picture.
> I also think putting reflective material directly under and touching the leaves is a ridiculously bad idea.


I hate to tell you, but the correct way to water is to let your pots dry out, then water. duh. Also, speaking of internet strange...... And what about outside grows in areas where temps get up to 100? I've got plants outside right now that are over 6 ft tall, been growing all thru this hot spell. Hmmmmmmm......

Some of us have went thru overwatering experiences thru our own learning processes, thats why we give advice, because we've done the same things or had the same problems. I think your roots might be staying too hot from the roof - when you say warrior pots, are they like smart pots, supposed to help keep the roots cooler? And are they directly on the roofing or did you put them on a board, something like that?


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## Dubbz0r (Aug 1, 2011)

I'm not fighting the heat anymore. What I'm fighting now is downward canoeing of my fan leaves, almost to the top of my kush plants. Here are a few pictures:



My plants are flowering great but what the hell is the cause of this? I'm torn between flushing or feeding... I got advice from a friend trying to help but I need more opinions before I make my move. My girls need to be watered or fed today and I need suggestions please.


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## Biologically Incorrect (Aug 3, 2011)

How far along are the, have you checked the trichomes? Yellowing is normal during the end, but the bottom of the leaf almost looks like nute burn.

Peace out



Dubbz0r said:


> I'm not fighting the heat anymore. What I'm fighting now is downward canoeing of my fan leaves, almost to the top of my kush plants. Here are a few pictures:
> 
> View attachment 1714986View attachment 1714987
> 
> My plants are flowering great but what the hell is the cause of this? I'm torn between flushing or feeding... I got advice from a friend trying to help but I need more opinions before I make my move. My girls need to be watered or fed today and I need suggestions please.


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## Dubbz0r (Aug 3, 2011)

I'm only on day 34 of flower so I doubt they're almost ready. There's still a few weeks to go. The plants have been improving a lot in the last few days. Current pics are in my sig


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## mission4thegreen (Aug 4, 2011)

What do you all think the blackish marking are on these leaves?
Do i need to be worried?


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## Irieking (Aug 9, 2011)

hello, i am need of confirmation that indeed; overwatering has occurred in my plants...??? i am not 100% sure please help??


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## Biologically Incorrect (Aug 9, 2011)

Its hard to say from the picture, but usually black spots indicate a bug issue (usually spider mites 

Peace out



mission4thegreen said:


> What do you all think the blackish marking are on these leaves?
> Do i need to be worried?


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## Biologically Incorrect (Aug 9, 2011)

Sagging leaves like that usually indicate over watering. Rule of thumb if you can stick your finger in the dirt and the soil feels wet then you do not need to water 

Peace out



Irieking said:


> hello, i am need of confirmation that indeed; overwatering has occurred in my plants...??? i am not 100% sure please help??
> View attachment 1728050View attachment 1728051


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## Holy Smokes (Aug 11, 2011)

Great article. I would also add the pH thingy. I've read that a lot of times, people forget about keeping the pH at a steady level. I've been keeping it at 6.5 because everyone gives me a different number. -- Anyway, I mix in the organic ferts and then I check the pH till I get it at 6.5. I recently started watering it with ferts until it runs out at the bottom at 6.5 (I catch the water from the holes at the bottom of the plastic pot.)


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 11, 2011)

I wrote a ditty on the pH myth. "Popular thought" is not always correct, especially in pot forums.

Cannabis is quite pH tolerant.

UB


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## Kingrow1 (Aug 13, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> I wrote a ditty on the pH myth. "Popular thought" is not always correct, especially in pot forums.
> 
> Cannabis is quite pH tolerant.
> 
> UB


Calcium deficiency seems to get mixed up with pH a lot, pH is also a myth to me, plants are quite tollerant of pH and reading runoff is never as accurate for pH as you think. Peace UB


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## blackbellychimp (Aug 13, 2011)

Looks like some normal leaf discoloration, doesnt look like itll be harmful kind though. Probably just the pheno


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## Holy Smokes (Aug 14, 2011)

Thanks, fellas. I'll test this on my next grow, but since I have few babies, will continue their pH pablum and diaper changes. I do appreciate you taking the time to share this with me.


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## symbiote420 (Aug 14, 2011)

mission4thegreen said:


> What do you all think the blackish marking are on these leaves?
> Do i need to be worried?


That looks fine to me, it's the color of the strains pigments coming through.


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## symbiote420 (Aug 14, 2011)

Irieking said:


> hello, i am need of confirmation that indeed; overwatering has occurred in my plants...??? i am not 100% sure please help??
> View attachment 1728050View attachment 1728051


 Yeah that's about right, let the pots dry out a little more before waterings.


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## bertcanada (Aug 17, 2011)

about a month ago it was way to hot and it has never recovered and seems to have slowly been getting worse from the bottom up, is my light on the back side too close? i know its only a T5 but it seems to be getting worse on the side of that light , what am i too cut off to recover? i have been taking off alot of dead stuff all wilted and crap. I dono what to do before it all dies and ims screwed. I water every 3 days, every 2nd I put the plantriods and super b and have been spraying every 2nd day with veg boom. its a mom, indoors, in dirt, it was soooooo healthy untill the 1 day


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## dirtysnowball (Aug 21, 2011)

sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but those leaves got friend and about 90% of the fried leaves are gonna fall off. the only reason they haven't is cuz your plant is eating their stored nutes. BUT theres good news, your plant is recovering cuz i see the new growth. the new growth and the leaves that didnt fry will be fine. so the top of your bush will be good still!


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 21, 2011)

bertcanada said:


> View attachment 1740225View attachment 1740223....... every 2nd I put the plantriods and super b and have been spraying every 2nd day with veg boom. its a mom, indoors, in dirt, it was soooooo healthy untill the 1 day


You've done the classic "aw shit".....pushed them with too much salts. Obviously, they don't require that much food, damage has been done with no hope for recovery unless you veg for a longer time and hope you get AND RETAIN enough leaves to produce good bud production. Shouldn't listen to the "Lost Art of Foliar Feeding" parrots.

Sum of the parts.
UB


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## Kingrow1 (Aug 22, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> You've done the classic "aw shit".....pushed them with too much salts. Obviously, they don't require that much food, damage has been done with no hope for recovery unless you veg for a longer time and hope you get AND RETAIN enough leaves to produce good bud production. Shouldn't listen to the "Lost Art of Foliar Feeding" parrots.
> 
> Sum of the parts.
> UB


WOW Totally, great answer.


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## Freebird11 (Aug 24, 2011)

I like to add follwing *:*
*Symptoms**: Browning and defoliation of tulip tree.*
*Diagnosis*: The manzanita ground cover and the tulip tree are in the same irrigation zone. These two plants have differing water requirements. (The tulip tree requires a fair amount of water, whereas the manzanita thrives on very little.)
*Solutions*: Increase the duration of irrigation, to avoid water-deficit damages to the tree. If that fails, plant a new tree that requires less water, such as pine or olive. Species with differing water requirements should not be planted in the same irrigation zone.


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## cickcne200 (Aug 26, 2011)

Uncle Ben i really hope you can help me out here, because nobody else has been able to so far. I have these stunted seedlings, about 3 or maybe even 4 weeks old! you wouldn't even belive they are that old by how small, pathetic, and bad they look. I have never grown weed so shitty and its really pissing me off, and stressing me alot because i spent alot of money on these seeds, and my last pound harvest was ruined by the pigs. So if this grow goes to crap i just don't know what i'll do. So i really hope you can help me. Okay heres some pics...

View attachment 1754359View attachment 1754360View attachment 1754362View attachment 1754363


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 26, 2011)

cickcne200 said:


> Uncle Ben i really hope you can help me out here, because nobody else has been able to so far. I have these stunted seedlings, about 3 or maybe even 4 weeks old! you wouldn't even belive they are that old by how small, pathetic, and bad they look. I have never grown weed so shitty and its really pissing me off, and stressing me alot because i spent alot of money on these seeds, and my last pound harvest was ruined by the pigs. So if this grow goes to crap i just don't know what i'll do. So i really hope you can help me. Okay heres some pics...
> 
> View attachment 1754359View attachment 1754360View attachment 1754361View attachment 1754362View attachment 1754363


I need to know your culture. Also, have you ever grown anything before?

Help yourself, buy Mel Franks MJ Insiders Growers Guide.


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## cickcne200 (Aug 26, 2011)

I have them in fox farm ocean forrest, yes i have done at least 6 marijuana grows and have grown many kinds of vegetables and fruits. Okay i will list the things that are different on this grow from my other ones: I transplanted straight from tiny seedlings into 3 gallon pots, which i think may be part of my problem; I am using a new line of nutrients- Dina gro, which i have never used before, i have always used general hydro flora nova; I know that i burnt these seedlings with to much fox farms big bloom, and i know that i should not have been giving them nutes anyways, but i was advised to give nutes on here so i did, out of impatience. Also i am growing in a tent which is new to me, i have always been in a large closet, and keeping the temps down has been a bit of an issue, which i don't quite understand because I have a new 400cfm inline fan and before i always used these cheap little duct boosters and temps were lower. Very confusing. But thats the breakdown. Temps in the tent range from 79-87, sometimes it gets really hot in there, usually by the time i wake up in the morning. I have the lights running mostly through the night. Humidity stays right around 50%, Ph has been right around 6.3-6.5, and i have already tried flushing them and then retransplanting, which i am going to do again back into small dixie cups. Thats about all


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## Dubbz0r (Aug 26, 2011)

Maybe give them straight water with an extremely small dose of superthrive added. Advanced nutrients also makes a great product called Revive.


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 27, 2011)

cickcne200 said:


> I have them in fox farm ocean forrest,


Are you considering its nutrient charge? Sum of the parts thingie.



> I transplanted straight from tiny seedlings into 3 gallon pots, which i think may be part of my problem;


Not good. Keep them in small containers until they seem to be getting rootbound. When you water, do it thoroughly. That soil looks dry to me, as if someone was giving them 1/2 cup of water rather than drenching them.



> I am using a new line of nutrients- Dina gro, which i have never used before, i have always used general hydro flora nova; I know that i burnt these seedlings with to much fox farms big bloom,


What are you doing using a low N, high K food now? They're small, they don't require much food and need N or they will end up stunted, as yours are. Suggest before you go on you spend some time on plant nutrition concepts.



> and i know that i should not have been giving them nutes anyways, but i was advised to give nutes on here so i did,


That's what you get for taking advice from those in question. Get off this forum, buy Mel's book, and get a book on indoor plant culture.



> .... sometimes it gets really hot in there, usually by the time i wake up in the morning. I have the lights running mostly through the night. Humidity stays right around 50%, Ph has been right around 6.3-6.5, and i have already tried flushing them and then retransplanting, which i am going to do again back into small dixie cups. Thats about all


Plants start shutting down around 95F. If I were you, I'd write them off as history. Every time you physically mess with them you put them into stress, like ripping the root hairs.

Good luck,
UB


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## gkawall (Aug 27, 2011)

View attachment 1756473
*Hey, i need some help, this is my first time grow. it been growing good untill i noticed that a few of the bottom leaves started to get brown spots on the tips, very small but then as time went on it dried out the leaf and turned it yellow and crackly. The top portion of the plant seems healthy. is this nute burn? or something else. please lemme no so i can do something to fix it asap. Anything helps. Thanks
*




View attachment 1756474View attachment 1756475View attachment 1756476View attachment 1756477View attachment 1756478View attachment 1756479View attachment 1756480


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## Kingrow1 (Aug 27, 2011)

Dubbz0r said:


> Maybe give them straight water with an extremely small dose of superthrive added. Advanced nutrients also makes a great product called Revive.


Says you can have your money back over here if the revive dont work and make your plant better, another far out claim from some fert company, i asked my grow shop for calcium and they tried to give me the revive saying it was high in calcium, i left it in the shop, it looked too overhyped!lol! Peace


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## itchyfinger (Aug 29, 2011)

Great peice


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## wyteboi (Aug 30, 2011)

gkawall said:


> *Hey, i need some help, this is my first time grow. it been growing good untill i noticed that a few of the bottom leaves started to get brown spots on the tips, very small but then as time went on it dried out the leaf and turned it yellow and crackly. The top portion of the plant seems healthy. is this nute burn? or something else. please lemme no so i can do something to fix it asap. Anything helps. Thanks*


for one reason or another , those lil girls are locked up and cant eat. it looks to me like too much water. dont water them unless they are dried out real good. UB can probably give you a lil more detailed info.


soil


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## ShowMeTheWay (Aug 30, 2011)

first time grower, and ive learnt a shit load from just this one thread. originally joined up so i could see the pics and compare them with mine, but spent the whole of last night reading the whole lot. i built a grow box out of a chest of draws, 250w light, HID, insufficient ventilation at first and was away for 2 days. the plants were pretty scorched but ive got some nice green new growth coming through now so its cushdy. got 2 applejack cuttings off my mate they are about 1ft so far, feeding them bio bizz grow which is 8-2-6. will start them on the bio bizz bloom when i put them into flower. feed them every other day when the pots are light, getting to know them now lovin it haha.

oh yeah, temp is at 84 during lights on, which are on 18/6 at the mo, and ive only just put the thermometer in so il get a nightime reading tomorrow, need to get a humidity reader yet, but ive got a bowl of warm water in there with cardboard wicks, and 2 small glasses of hot water with toilet roll centers in them standing up as wicks, the leaves feel nice and cool now and flat as opposed to how they were, curled up a bit and dry as fuck. and i mist the plants when the lights go off and an hour before they go on.

oh and im using bio bizz compost.

if anything here sounds wrong feel free to correct me im all for learning.

big up.


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## wyteboi (Aug 30, 2011)

it looks like you have it all together so far showme. keep readin an learnin. this thread is very good with learning a lil bout nutes an how they work. read on plant nutrition and good soil and you cant go wrong.



soil


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## whynot (Aug 30, 2011)

*UB, on page 7, there was a short discussion about a possible link between bulging at petiole bases and females but it seems to have petered out. I had the the same thing on my female, but it was topped for 4 colas. Is that just a natural reaction to being topped? After reading the first 9 pages, I am finally starting to understand. More to read. Thanks UB!

*


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 31, 2011)

* gkawall*, sorry, don't have the time for the basics nor do I read minds (no info given). Just learn what makes a plant tick and you'll be fine.




whynot said:


> *UB, on page 7, there was a short discussion about a possible link between bulging at petiole bases and females but it seems to have petered out. I had the the same thing on my female, but it was topped for 4 colas. Is that just a natural reaction to being topped? After reading the first 9 pages, I am finally starting to understand. More to read. Thanks UB!
> *


*

Natural reaction to the topping.

Good luck,
UB*


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## TokenJoke1 (Aug 31, 2011)

uncle ben, can i get your opinon on this grow. i don't have the pics on this computer so here is the thread link.
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/460675-first-grow-plant-problems-pics.html Thanks in advance to any and everyone who helps.


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 31, 2011)

looks like u forgot the electrolytes


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## TokenJoke1 (Sep 1, 2011)

uncle ben, was that directed towards me? and if so how do i give it electrolytes? I googled it and all simple stuff just said its what pants crave(as if that helps,lol) everything esle seem a bit over my head. I mean do i water it with gatorade.lol


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 1, 2011)

Sheesh, just kidding! Unless you give me complete day to day activities, your issues could be based on a dozen things.

Recommend a book on indoor plant culture. Mel Frank's MJ Insiders Growers Guide is hard to beat.

This might help - https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/267989-uncle-bens-gardening-tweeks-pointers.html

Good luck......


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## dannyboy602 (Sep 6, 2011)

Still here givin out great advice. You're like one of my fav people UB. I link people to your lectures and lessons all the time. U know, u have quite a following. Ever think of writing a book? You could ghost write it and still make a lot of moolah. It would make a nice addition to my collection also. High five u cannabis guru u


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## Kingrow1 (Sep 6, 2011)

I agree there too Dannyboy, Uncleben certainly knows his sh!t, he seems to only have to glance at a plant to see its problems. Utmost respect. Peace


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 7, 2011)

dannyboy602 said:


> Still here givin out great advice. You're like one of my fav people UB. I link people to your lectures and lessons all the time. U know, u have quite a following. Ever think of writing a book? You could ghost write it and still make a lot of moolah. It would make a nice addition to my collection also. High five u cannabis guru u


Thanks for the kind words. Just doin' mah thing......

High fivin' back atcha ya!


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## wyteboi (Sep 8, 2011)

Kingrow1 said:


> Utmost respect. Peace


yes agreed ! 

think _outside _the label !!




soil


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## kale Barrie (Sep 8, 2011)

i aggree with that..


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## Keen Green Ferrit (Sep 20, 2011)

Has Any one got any advice for me, my plants are in early flowering about 2weeks maybe less. 2 are looking good the third not so good. After reading Uncle ben's wisdom its clearly caused by moisture stress and looks like its induced some deficiencies as well now, spreading rapidly.

Severe yellowing edges of leaves in middle of plant, lots of curled leaves (they have been around for a while mind), lower smaller leaves are turning speckled pale yellow, and most now have red stems...basically its pretty messed up.

flushed it the about 2 days ago and then next day lightly fed it some bloom nute's 2-4-5 Earth Juice sugar peak.
only got rough ph tester kit, so soil ph was between 6-7, closer to 7. I fed the nutes slightly acidic to try bring the ph closer to 6.

potted in bio bizz soil mix
under a whimpy 125watt Cfl flowering spectrum.
wardrobe grow, fan for circulation, i leave the door open.



sorry pics are poor, worth noting there were a lot more yellow leaves but a bunch fell off yesterday when i touched them.

Leaving it alone might be the best option but would like to hear other opinions, cheers folks!


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 20, 2011)

Sounds like the typical response from using cannabis specific foods. What's the micros values in your foods? They look chlorotic to me.


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## Keen Green Ferrit (Sep 20, 2011)

haha its first time i've used it too.
it says nothing on the bottle about micro's, and couldn't even find a website with it on. is says derived from molasses, bat guano, calcium nitrate, potassium sulphate, marine bird guano, phosphoric acid, and kelp meal.

guess theres a fair chance this stuff is shitt, heard mixed reports.

have you said what you use in this forum somewhere?


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 21, 2011)

Nothing wrong with Walmart foods.


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## robbie4door (Sep 22, 2011)

ben any chance of some good help
what i have is 4 bag seed plants in roots organics
75-80 deg for temps,fans, 8 cfl for veg and 150 hps for flower
they are a month old and have repotted about ten days ago.
i use ph tap water that sits over night and water every other day. and have only added nutrians twice at like half dose.
what should i do
you think over water, nitrogen burn, or just young plants in soil thats a little hot to start..?? learn me the ways o mighty one 
thanks


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 22, 2011)

robbie4door said:


> View attachment 1800427View attachment 1800426View attachment 1800425View attachment 1800423
> 
> ben any chance of some good help
> what i have is 4 bag seed plants in roots organics
> ...


What foods and at what rate are you feeding them? I see some margin curling which suggest moisture stress.


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## robbie4door (Sep 22, 2011)

Ben
I use pure pro grow right now but have only given half strength two times every 3rd watering.
I let the pots dry out to the best I can tell (nubbie) . Think some cal/mag is what's needed.
Ph the runoff today and was way low . How can I raise the soil ph if needed. Thanks Ben ...


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## Kingrow1 (Sep 22, 2011)

I too have a question for the great Ben, how come when i get heat and moisture stress i also get very dark green leaves??

Peace


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 23, 2011)

robbie4door said:


> Ben
> I use pure pro grow right now but have only given half strength two times every 3rd watering.
> I let the pots dry out to the best I can tell (nubbie) . Think some cal/mag is what's needed.
> Ph the runoff today and was way low . How can I raise the soil ph if needed. Thanks Ben ...


Don't ever let the pots dry out and no need to worry about the pH.



Kingrow1 said:


> I too have a question for the great Ben, how come when i get heat and moisture stress i also get very dark green leaves??
> 
> Peace


Don't know, as they're not related.


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## wheeelman (Sep 28, 2011)

Hey Uncle Ben...what do you think? Can't figure out what's up with this plant. It's in the same bucket with 3 others and two show no signs of issues whatsoever. One is faintly showing the same problem but this one is the worse. Plants are about 18 days old and there is a little bit of leaf curl upward on this one. It's in DWC with what I believe to be plenty of air pumping with the water line about .5-1" below the net pots.

Conditions:
Temps: 73-76
Res Temps: 66-69
PPM: 210-240
PH: 6.5


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 29, 2011)

wheeelman said:


> Hey Uncle Ben...what do you think? Can't figure out what's up with this plant. It's in the same bucket with 3 others and two show no signs of issues whatsoever. One is faintly showing the same problem but this one is the worse. Plants are about 18 days old and there is a little bit of leaf curl upward on this one. It's in DWC with what I believe to be plenty of air pumping with the water line about .5-1" below the net pots.
> 
> Conditions:
> Temps: 73-76
> ...


Other than being extremely stunted regarding vigor, they look fine to me. Curious, why did you go with DWC rather than soil?

UB


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## wheeelman (Sep 29, 2011)

That's a good question....it looked interesting and seemed like a good challenge. I am also basing the grow off of someone else so I'm basically setting up exactly the same. So why do you think they are stunted...I know they don't look sickly but I'm trying to catch things before they are real trouble! Anyway appreciate the response!

Also, I have 1 2ft 2 bulb t5 over it...is that enough light? I just don't know why they would be stunted?


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 29, 2011)

They're stunted because something is out of wack. Could be a combo of a dozen things. Being popular and looking interesting is your pathway to failure when it comes to cannabis forums. Are you a regular gardener?


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## wheeelman (Sep 29, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> They're stunted because something is out of wack. Could be a combo of a dozen things. Being popular and looking interesting is your pathway to failure when it comes to cannabis forums. Are you a regular gardener?


I've done outdoors with great results in ground and obviously soil plenty of times so these problems I'm encountering are new to me especially since I have never started seeds in rapid rooters in a DWC, it's also been a while since I've started from seeds also. Soil was probably the easiest thing I've ever done. I said nothing of being popular  but DWC does interest me. I like trying new things and this was the logical next step. I'm sure something is out of whack I'm just having trouble pin pointing it.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 29, 2011)

Stunting is usually related to a deficiency of N, IF, all things are in balance.


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## Erk (Sep 30, 2011)

What is going on with mine please sir? Nutes once a week with FF Nutes. Strain is white Rhino, its 2-3 weeks into flowering. Water every other day or two depending if it needs it. Temps are 81 degrees. Humidity was at like 70% but has been down to normal at about 45-50 for the past 3-4 days. Any idea? or was my humidity killing it?


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 1, 2011)

Sorry, not enough info. I know nothing about fox nutes.


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## Erk (Oct 2, 2011)

Soil: half FF ocean forest, half FF happy frog. Been giving FF Tiger Bloom 2-8-4 for 1 week, 3 teaspoons per gallon + 1 gallon of water in addition. Split between 4 plants. Feed only once a week. Followed by fresh water 2-3 days later. then Molasses 2-3 days later. then repeat. 600 watt light, fully vented, two fans on them. temps are 80 degrees with humidity now at 45-50%. humidity was at 65-75% entire time prior. 

can you help?
thanks


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## fssalaska (Oct 2, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!, or, My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong? Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the solution the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. Ill try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.
> 
> ...


Very nice thread ! good info.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 2, 2011)

Erk said:


> Soil: half FF ocean forest, half FF happy frog. Been giving FF Tiger Bloom 2-8-4 for 1 week, 3 teaspoons per gallon + 1 gallon of water in addition. Split between 4 plants. Feed only once a week. Followed by fresh water 2-3 days later. then Molasses 2-3 days later. then repeat. 600 watt light, fully vented, two fans on them. temps are 80 degrees with humidity now at 45-50%. humidity was at 65-75% entire time prior.
> 
> can you help?
> thanks


My best guess is they're getting too much salts. A 2-8-4 at the rate you're using will surely induce leaf stress and necrosis over time.


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## POLICEMATRIX (Oct 4, 2011)

OK these have been in these 19 litre pots for just over 1 month and have been in 12/12 for about 5 days ,the are in plagron royalty mix which is said to have all the nutes needed through the whole life cycle , ok the last 3 days the temps went quite high so i gave plants more water than normal to try and compensate for the high temps , the last two days it has dropped to nice levels like 18 -22 c day and 12- 15 c at night , now 1 plant is the same growing normal as before but the other has wilting leaves , i have had leaves like this before but they wilted a lot more and a quick water fixed them these dont seem to wilt as much but defiantly are a bit, I am considering flushing or letting the soil dry out but i dont know what to do , i have tried watering this seems to have some slight improvement but the next day again they wilted, also i have noticed some low leaves have rust spots on them only a few and none on the top leaves , also i have about 4 leaf tips clawing under 
this is how it looks now 
this is how it did look about 5 days ago 
now i know there isnt a great deal of difference but it is noticeable to me and i want to nip it in the bud (pardon the pun)
Like should i let it dry out abit or should i flush ,or am i overreacting =) thanks

ok more info about the soil 
pH: 5,8 and 6,2
EC: 1.8 and 2.2
Plagron Royalty-mix contains a carefully selected combination of organic fertilizers which meet all the plants nutritional requirements throughout the complete cycle. These Plagron fertilizers are unique because they are only released exactly when the plant needs them.
ok says you should only add food after 6 weeks but i dont think lack of nutes is the problem from what i can ascertain it is too much fert or salts or too much water ,can plant really drown in these soils ?
heres some pics of the spots on lower leaves and the claw leaves


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## kevin murphy (Oct 4, 2011)

Flush and see what happens mate...


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## POLICEMATRIX (Oct 4, 2011)

ok will do and thanks
ive added some more pics these leaves are the ones at the bottom out of the light
ok i flushed for a bit not sure if the water should run clear though , i didnt but it got clearer ,so ill just wait and see for now ,
thanks again


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## kevin murphy (Oct 4, 2011)

flush till water is clear mate...


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## POLICEMATRIX (Oct 4, 2011)

ahh ok ill re flush tomorrow

ok its the next day and plant looks better not perfect but better so have flushed again water didnt run clear but was nearly clear
So now ill leave for a couple of days see if things improve but by the looks of it this was the problem either a build up of salts or too much nutrient in the soil 
thanks again

OK looks like normal now =)))))
thanks so much
strange though both are in identical soil from the same bag yet 1 flushes yellow the other clear ,something to note while using plagron royalty mix


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## POLICEMATRIX (Oct 5, 2011)

POLICEMATRIX said:


> OK these have been in these 19 litre pots for just over 1 month and have been in 12/12 for about 5 days ,the are in plagron royalty mix which is said to have all the nutes needed through the whole life cycle , ok the last 3 days the temps went quite high so i gave plants more water than normal to try and compensate for the high temps , the last two days it has dropped to nice levels like 18 -22 c day and 12- 15 c at night , now 1 plant is the same growing normal as before but the other has wilting leaves , i have had leaves like this before but they wilted a lot more and a quick water fixed them these dont seem to wilt as much but defiantly are a bit, I am considering flushing or letting the soil dry out but i dont know what to do , i have tried watering this seems to have some slight improvement but the next day again they wilted, also i have noticed some low leaves have rust spots on them only a few and none on the top leaves , also i have about 4 leaf tips clawing under
> this is how it looks now View attachment 1819309
> this is how it did look about 5 days agoView attachment 1819310
> now i know there isnt a great deal of difference but it is noticeable to me and i want to nip it in the bud (pardon the pun)
> ...


ok flush worked like a charm thanks for your help kevin murphy appreciate it =)
ermm ok slight update yesterday plant was 90% so today i flushed again till water ran clear and now its 100% but will the soil make new nutes or will i have to add some now , i will go on the basis of if it looks healthy then i wont do anything, also im thinking this soil will make new nutes but what do you people think??
 the leaves have picked up nicely
 this is one of the rust spots
 just a picture =)


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## wyteboi (Oct 6, 2011)

dont add more nutes until the plant wants them. If you have never put additional food in there then there aint no salt buildup ..... it was either too dry or too wet. 
"Flushing" will not help on soil unless there is a major buildup , especially with organic matter as food. *IF YOU* think she looks better then she was probably just thirsty an hungry both. 

Your soil might continue to make more food available , it might not. It might have used everything in there already. you will have to just water with no food until you see that she needs more , then give her a "regular diet" from then on out.






soil


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## POLICEMATRIX (Oct 6, 2011)

this is what the soil is made up from
This special potting soil was developed in Holland and is, in our opinion, the best soil for organic cultivation. It consists of White peat, Baltic peat, Irish peat, sphagnum peat moss and Black peat comprising 60% of the total volume. The remainder consists of 20% worm compost, 15% perlite and 5% bio super mix which is a concentrated selection of biological fertilisers containing minerals, bacteria, vitamins, blood-meal, bone-dust, basalt-dust, bentonite, seaweed meal, guano and lava-dust. The complete mix is a ready to use, completely biologically mixed potting compost with a pH between 5.9-6.2 and an EC of 1.3. 
So with all this stuff in could there be a build up of too much nutes / salts


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## Tommycheese (Oct 8, 2011)

Hi my plants have been over watered and the soil doesnt seem to be drying up in a hurry all plants are yellow what could i do to help my situation? Please help thanks in advance


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## Isisyogi (Oct 8, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> Stunting is usually related to a deficiency of N, IF, all things are in balance.



If you are in hydro and you are not supposed to feed seedlings anything, how to you increase N in order to increase vigor? My plants are a bit bigger than his, and I know they lack vigor from seed. I use RO, 18 ppm, 6.0 ph, sprout in either paper towel (no longer) or Root Shooters, place them under 2 T5, and I seem to get stretching and slow vigor. Happened with my first 2 rounds. Just germed 4 new in RS, haven't sprouted up yet, but I'd like to encourage vigor this round. I'm now using Dyna-gro 9-3-6 for veg, thanks to you. Would love your advice. Thanks.


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## POLICEMATRIX (Oct 9, 2011)

Isisyogi said:


> If you are in hydro and you are not supposed to feed seedlings anything, how to you increase N in order to increase vigor? My plants are a bit bigger than his, and I know they lack vigor from seed. I use RO, 18 ppm, 6.0 ph, sprout in either paper towel (no longer) or Root Shooters, place them under 2 T5, and I seem to get stretching and slow vigor. Happened with my first 2 rounds. Just germed 4 new in RS, haven't sprouted up yet, but I'd like to encourage vigor this round. I'm now using Dyna-gro 9-3-6 for veg, thanks to you. Would love your advice. Thanks.


ok well i had 2 strains 1 was short and branchy one was tall and lanky but both after 1 month of veg are the same size just over 1 foot and bushey as you like I used Low Stress Training 

http://www.gardenscure.com/420/train...more-walk.html

hope this helps / also about the over watering , i use a lot of vermiculite and find flooding the plant impossible as there is always room for air , i use buget everything except the soil I always use high quality INDOOR soil.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 9, 2011)

Isisyogi said:


> If you are in hydro and you are not supposed to feed seedlings anything, how to you increase N in order to increase vigor?


Huh? Plants need a complete elemental profile from start to finish. The 9-3-6 will work great, just gear the amount with the requirements of the plant which is determined by such factors as size (bulk) and vigor. Seedlings need food or they will die.
*
Tommycheese, **time to replant and get a book on indoor plant culture.*

UB


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## Isisyogi (Oct 10, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> Huh? Plants need a complete elemental profile from start to finish. The 9-3-6 will work great, just gear the amount with the requirements of the plant which is determined by such factors as size (bulk) and vigor. Seedlings need food or they will die.
> *
> Tommycheese, **time to replant and get a book on indoor plant culture.*
> 
> UB



I was asking how you are supposed to encourage vigor in seedlings (by way of N) when you are not supposed to give them nutes until after several weeks?


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 10, 2011)

Isisyogi said:


> I was asking how you are supposed to encourage vigor in seedlings (by way of N) when you are not supposed to give them nutes until after several weeks?


I repeat but in a different way, who said you don't give seedlings nutes from the get-go? If you're doing hydro, you better give them a full profile of elements or you're not only not going to have any growth or vigor, you stand a good chance of losing them. The cotyledons are insufficient regarding the provision of sugars. Why in the hell would any one want to starve their plants, because some Troll-It-Up marihuana nerd said so?

Most soils have a nutrient charge and will carry the seedling for quite a while. Want to see some vigor? This is how you do it - https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html

Make sure you're giving your plants plenty of light which can only be measured with a f.c. meter. Seedlings can take full sun if exposed from the time of germination on.

UB


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## Green Bastard (Oct 11, 2011)

Hi,
Do you guys think it is over watering or bud rot or something worse. I think I gave too much water on Friday. On Sunday I came home and saw this. Plants are growing in soil. Yesterday I checked the soil and it was completely dry. Should I water plants or wait they'll get any better.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 11, 2011)

Green Bastard said:


> Hi,
> Do you guys think it is over watering or bud rot or something worse. I think I gave too much water on Friday. On Sunday I came home and saw this. Plants are growing in soil. Yesterday I checked the soil and it was completely dry. Should I water plants or wait they'll get any better.


Looks like you've lost the root system.

With a good soil mix, you can't give a plant too much water as the drain holes will take care of excesses and foliage will wick off excess soil moisture. When you water, water until there is a lot of free runoff and don't ever let the pot go dry. Also, get a book on indoor plant culture and learn the basics.

Good luck,
UB


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## Green Bastard (Oct 11, 2011)

I have grown two crops without problems. There are drain holes on pots and same companys soil I used before this crop. Its weird if both got root problems. Yesterday I checked soil the roots were white. :/ Hope that they'll get better.


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## datdpeGY247 (Oct 12, 2011)

ok dis is on a different topic bt i feel like if i dnt ask it here it will never get answered. ok me n a couple of homies decided 2 add a homemade co2 gen and on top of dat were using selter water. Now my question is, is there such a thing as 2 much co2 and if so wat r da symtoms


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## DohioMAN (Oct 14, 2011)

my girl is 2weeks into flower an for sum reason a quarter of them leafs r saging an curling down into it self ill post pic the lights r off in pic but she is a xxx-somthing im thinkn 420 but she def a hybred i got in 4half gallon bucket she bout 3"7 lol


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## DohioMAN (Oct 15, 2011)

really seems like everytime i post no one want to help me


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## wyteboi (Oct 15, 2011)

DohioMAN said:


> my girl is 2weeks into flower an for sum reason a quarter of them leafs r saging an curling down into it self ill post pic the lights r off in pic but she is a xxx-somthing im thinkn 420 but she def a hybred i got in 4half gallon bucket she bout 3"7 lol


i would say the soil is a lil too moist and/or a lil too much food. just dont feed them any food right this second and make sure the soil is dryin out real good before watering. 






soil


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## wyteboi (Oct 15, 2011)

datdpeGY247 said:


> ok dis is on a different topic bt i feel like if i dnt ask it here it will never get answered. ok me n a couple of homies decided 2 add a homemade co2 gen and on top of dat were using selter water. Now my question is, is there such a thing as 2 much co2 and if so wat r da symtoms


Yes there is such thing as too much co2 , but you will never reach that level with "homemade co2". If you are concerned with the co2 levels you should defiantly invest in a co2 meter to check the ppm in the room.
whats "selter water" ? 





soil


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## wyteboi (Oct 15, 2011)

Green Bastard said:


> Hi,
> Do you guys think it is over watering or bud rot or something worse. I think I gave too much water on Friday. On Sunday I came home and saw this. Plants are growing in soil. Yesterday I checked the soil and it was completely dry. Should I water plants or wait they'll get any better.


they need water right NOW ! those plants will be fine , yes you might have overwatered an messed up the roots and if they are flowering then that cycle is fucked up too , but they will be just fine , that is just a major lack of water .... those will perk up within hours if your watered them before they died.





soil


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## DohioMAN (Oct 15, 2011)

ok man ill do an see wat happens thanks for the help


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## Isisyogi (Oct 15, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> I repeat but in a different way, who said you don't give seedlings nutes from the get-go? If you're doing hydro, you better give them a full profile of elements or you're not only not going to have any growth or vigor, you stand a good chance of losing them. The cotyledons are insufficient regarding the provision of sugars. Why in the hell would any one want to starve their plants, because some Troll-It-Up marihuana nerd said so?
> 
> Most soils have a nutrient charge and will carry the seedling for quite a while. Want to see some vigor? This is how you do it - https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html
> 
> ...


My apologies, I misunderstood. 

I switched to Dyna-gro Foliage Pro about 2 weeks ago after finding one of your many helpful threads, my plants are loving it. Just topped 4 of my girls using your 4 cola technique. I should just have you move in at this point  finishing up my grow for me, lol. Yep, I'm amongst the masses listening to bad grow info out there. I bought into it. Explains my lack of vigor from seed. Should I have the ppm at a certain amount for seeds? 

Thought Spin-out was for soil? I'm hydro. Comparable? 

Can I give my girls Dyna-pro FP as seedlings? Or do you recommend something else? Also, thought I saw in the same Dyna-gro post that you recommend the 9-3-6 through flower? 

Ballast can do 300, 400, 600, or super lumens. When do you suggest bumping up from 300? Any specific time period, or anytime and just watch how close they are to the light? 

Have you written a book? I'd love to see all of your info in a cohesive form. So far, everything I have from you and followed has given me beautiful results. 

Once again, thank you.


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## JAMES.BOND.007 (Oct 16, 2011)

OK guys im 3 weeks into flower and i have noticed some of the top fan leaves turning yellowish on the edges of the leaf and a general yellowing of the whole leaf ,bud leaves are unaffected ,i did a flush about 5 days ago and im growing organicly in plagron royalty mix i have added nothing but water ,i am thinking to wait a few more days ,but if it carrys on should i get some pk14/15 or something like this ??
night time temps are going from between 5- 10 c
also the tips of the fan leaves and around the edges seem to be getting a slight purplish colour


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 16, 2011)

DohioMAN said:


> my girl is 2weeks into flower an for sum reason a quarter of them leafs r saging an curling down into it self ill post pic the lights r off in pic but she is a xxx-somthing im thinkn 420 but she def a hybred i got in 4half gallon bucket she bout 3"7 lol


You have to help (and figure this out) yourself. The problem may be your root system or overall lack of understanding of basic plant culture. Buy Mel Frank's "MJ Insiders Growers Guide". It is your shortcut to success.

The following is the best write up on soil container gardening I've seen in my 40+ years of gardening. The post (member) replies to Al the author is amazing. http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0316064615891.html?14

Good luck,
UB


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 16, 2011)

Fellers, I'm sorry but even though I respond to problems that revolve around the cultural issues and the basics from time to time, I just don't have the patience to teach the basics, that's your job. Do a search at regular gardening forums. There's too much noise and bad info here....blind leading the blind.

I have literally spent AT LEAST 6 hours this weekend lurking and doing searches on various topics of interest at 3 different (regular) gardening forums......and learned a helluva a lot! Out of all that time lurking I wrote perhaps 3 posts.

You have to learn to balance ALL the cultural elements and requirements of your plants. I can't do it for you.

Good luck,
UB


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## dragonfly69 (Oct 16, 2011)

I'm new here n just reading for it's knowledge...


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## Isisyogi (Oct 16, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> Fellers, I'm sorry but even though I respond to problems that revolve around the cultural issues and the basics from time to time, I just don't have the patience to teach the basics, that's your job. Do a search at regular gardening forums. There's too much noise and bad info here....blind leading the blind.
> 
> I have literally spent AT LEAST 6 hours this weekend lurking and doing searches on various topics of interest at 3 different (regular) gardening forums......and learned a helluva a lot! Out of all that time lurking I wrote perhaps 3 posts.
> 
> ...



It's hard to find the RELIABLE sources, as you know. In my experience, I think I have a gem of a source, turns out to be among the masses of misinformants. That's why I asked if you had written a book. If you have any recommendations of authors, books, websites for hydro, I'd love the info. If not, I'll keep trying to weed through your many threads with numerous pages to collect the info I can. Your knowledge is the most practical, effective and straightforward have found to date. Thank you.


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## DohioMAN (Oct 18, 2011)

jus lookn for a way to lean man not hold my hand lmao but i kno wat u mean i figured it out thanks tho


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## boneheadbob (Oct 18, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> .
> 
> The following is the best write up on soil container gardening I've seen in my 40+ years of gardening. The post (member) replies to Al the author is amazing. http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0316064615891.html?14
> 
> ...


That link is great and theres more links at the website about everything container growing
Mel Franks will be in the mailbox soon!!!


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 18, 2011)

Never written a book, thanks for the vote of confidence. 

Mel Frank's book will be your shortcut to success.

Enjoy......


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## tane mahuta (Nov 1, 2011)

kiaora plants are in soil well mixture of dolomite blood and bone,sheep shit.The size of pots are 30litre pots i have three under 400hps in 1.2sqmetre 7ft high little. also fan, air purifierionizir temp not over 25degrees to 27 at most.feed them table spoon each of potash sulphate. 90% of plant big green and looks healthly.All top tips bit yellow and edges of new tip leaves are folding in.had previous problem with leaf tip burn. Also cant flush out.shit i think to much water size of plants 20" high about1/2 a metre round please help me all was going good maybe want 2 give them 2 much please help me. Kiaora and thank you.


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## gkawall (Nov 10, 2011)

View attachment 1880640View attachment 1880639View attachment 1880638View attachment 1880637View attachment 1880636View attachment 1880635View attachment 1880634View attachment 1880633View attachment 1880632View attachment 1880631View attachment 1880630View attachment 1880629Dudes, since 2 weeks ago i started to notice thaView attachment 1880628t some of the bottom leaves were yellowing, then i was scouting for this week and just turns worst. Help me to find whats happening please!! 
View attachment 1880627
Dudes, since 2 weeks ago i started to notice that some of the bottom leaves were yellowing, then i was scouting for this week and just turns worst. Help me to find whats happening please!!


----------



## xMOONx (Nov 10, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> That's a natural newbie response, you're apprehensive and fear of the unknown will getcha by the cajones every time. Just keep it simple and grow your plants like you would tomatoes. Remember, pot is a weed and where folks screw it up is by overdoing things.
> 
> Less is more.
> 
> ...


*Great usable advise UBen--I'm a country gal that has learned to "make do" mostly with what I have. Can't afford all the expensive stuff to grow pot. I'm in my 2nd closet grow and my girls are startin to flower. I use CFL's--WalMart time release soil--a WalMart--$10.00 box fan & for humidity--I have a 3 gal. jug with a $10.00 aquarium pump and air stones. Nothin fancy but beautiful girls.*
*PS--I also have a small WM elect. heater. Also did a shit load of readin on the internet before I started an then my 1st grow was watch an learn.*


----------



## xMOONx (Nov 10, 2011)

DaveCoulier said:


> There's alot of misinformation out there. We only need to look at the threads/posts on any mj forum to see that.
> 
> Putting drainage layers in pots without drain holes will still not prevent root rot. All the drainage layer does is raise the perched water table higher in the pot, and well water isn't going to drain from that area into the drainage layer because of capillary action is too much for gravity to overcome, and the water stays right where it is.
> 
> ...


*Why would anybody use pots without drain holes?*


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 10, 2011)

xMOONx said:


> *Great usable advise UBen--I'm a country gal that has learned to "make do" mostly with what I have. Can't afford all the expensive stuff to grow pot. I'm in my 2nd closet grow and my girls are startin to flower. I use CFL's--WalMart time release soil--a WalMart--$10.00 box fan & for humidity--I have a 3 gal. jug with a $10.00 aquarium pump and air stones. Nothin fancy but beautiful girls.*
> *PS--I also have a small WM elect. heater. Also did a shit load of readin on the internet before I started an then my 1st grow was watch an learn.*


That's all you need. Ever notice that the worst looking gardens, plants, are from those that have spent a bundle on stuff? You can get at least 8 oz of great bud from a 2 - 4 plant closet grow, cheap. 

I now grow outdoors. Cost? Hmmmmmmm, probably less that $2.00 for at least a couple of pounds of bud. Seeds - free. Light - free. Water - free (well water). Soil - $1.00. Plant food - maybe $.80. Profits? You do the math.

UB


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## xMOONx (Nov 11, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> That's all you need. Ever notice that the worst looking gardens, plants, are from those that have spent a bundle on stuff? You can get at least 8 oz of great bud from a 2 - 4 plant closet grow, cheap.
> 
> I now grow outdoors. Cost? Hmmmmmmm, probably less that $2.00 for at least a couple of pounds of bud. Seeds - free. Light - free. Water - free (well water). Soil - $1.00. Plant food - maybe $.80. Profits? You do the math.
> 
> UB


*You have the perfect grow garden as it was meant to be! To many ignorant people still in my state--hopefully some day they get educated an worry about the "real" drugs! Until then, I just keep growin my cheap smoke an enjoyin it.*
*I also have cheap fert.--I have horses.*


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## wyteboi (Nov 13, 2011)

set an example moon !!

keep um green with anything necessary!






soil


----------



## rollandtoke (Nov 13, 2011)

Many many thanks for this information, thought I had been underwatering, seems its the opposite.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 13, 2011)

xMOONx said:


> *You have the perfect grow garden as it was meant to be! To many ignorant people still in my state--hopefully some day they get educated an worry about the "real" drugs! Until then, I just keep growin my cheap smoke an enjoyin it.*
> *I also have cheap fert.--I have horses.*


Horse manure is one of the best!


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## xMOONx (Nov 13, 2011)

wyteboi said:


> set an example moon !!
> 
> keep um green with anything necessary!
> 
> soil


*My horse manure works good for me an my girls love it! Also excellent compost from around where my horses eat their hay from the round bales.*

*I also have a Llama--wonder what that would do for fert.? Better read up on that one. LOL*


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## STILL PUFFIN (Nov 17, 2011)

dont give up your day job mate , they look fucked 

get a hps and some bigger pots and better soil , you can save them but they needs lots of tlc


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## wyteboi (Nov 17, 2011)

gkawall said:


> View attachment 1880640View attachment 1880639View attachment 1880638View attachment 1880637View attachment 1880636View attachment 1880635View attachment 1880634View attachment 1880633View attachment 1880632View attachment 1880631View attachment 1880630View attachment 1880629Dudes, since 2 weeks ago i started to notice thaView attachment 1880628t some of the bottom leaves were yellowing, then i was scouting for this week and just turns worst. Help me to find whats happening please!!
> View attachment 1880627
> Dudes, since 2 weeks ago i started to notice that some of the bottom leaves were yellowing, then i was scouting for this week and just turns worst. Help me to find whats happening please!!


your plants need more N. they are eating the N right outta the older , bigger fan leaves. a couple doses of food an they will be fine. 





soil


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## RedEyedMonster (Nov 17, 2011)

UncleBen can you please help me and look at this thread?

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/487588-any-thoughts-whats-wrong.html


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## thecoolman (Nov 18, 2011)




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## wyteboi (Nov 21, 2011)

thecoolman said:


>


moonlight burn ......?


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## grapeoptimo (Nov 21, 2011)

Unc Ben, whats up with this leaf curl ?


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 21, 2011)

What leaf curl?


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## grapeoptimo (Nov 21, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> What leaf curl?


on the edges of the fan leaves..

edit. I transplanted this girl into a 5 gallon pot today. Pretty sure it was slightly rootbound


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## Themistic (Nov 24, 2011)

hi. i have a plant in a dome and everytime i take the dome off it curls up into a little ball why is that?


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## n00b83 (Nov 25, 2011)

Excellent post! However I don't feel certain that I can identify my issue. I have six ladies that have been flowering for about 11 days now. They are under a 400W HPS which is ~12" away from the tops on average and I have a two bulb t5 on the sides to increase light into the canopy. The last couple of days they have started to show some discolorations on the leaves along with curling (up and down depending on the plant). I used some Olivia's rooting solution at the time of transplant 11 days ago and also watered. Half way between there and now I have also given them some FoxFarm Big Bloom. Not sure what to do to get them back on track and their normal color. Any thoughts would be appreciated!


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## wyteboi (Nov 26, 2011)

n00b83 said:


> Excellent post! However I don't feel certain that I can identify my issue. I have six ladies that have been flowering for about 11 days now. They are under a 400W HPS which is ~12" away from the tops on average and I have a two bulb t5 on the sides to increase light into the canopy. The last couple of days they have started to show some discolorations on the leaves along with curling (up and down depending on the plant). I used some Olivia's rooting solution at the time of transplant 11 days ago and also watered. Half way between there and now I have also given them some FoxFarm Big Bloom. Not sure what to do to get them back on track and their normal color. Any thoughts would be appreciated!
> 
> View attachment 1905050View attachment 1905051View attachment 1905052


more N an less P. an lighten up on the total food just a lil. (they have no flowers yet , so they wont eat much extra P)







soil


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## Pearl00S4 (Nov 26, 2011)

i have a question, ive gotten several clones for my first grow, i had gotten them from a source that is pretty new to growing as well. well my planst have severe purple stems, when i had recieved the clones, my buddy said he has some timer issues, and the nutes he was using is dif then the nutes im using, im sure that has a lot to do with it, im sure they are just severly stressed, but what causes purple stems? also i have them in 5 gal buckets with rockwool, it seems the RW stay wet and have yet to dry up completely, i may go 4-5 days inbetween watering due to the heaviness of the buckets, i didnt wanna over water them. but assume that they need food/watering more then once a week. last thing, ide say half of the leave on my plant only have 1 leaf, most of them never split into mulitple leaves, its very weird...ive done lots of searvhing for my problems but am having no luck, im gonna try to puch these through the end of the grow and start resh, i now have some seeds grwing and they look amazing....but any ideas on all of my plant problems, thanks Ben!


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## JRTokin (Nov 26, 2011)

Hey all,

Just wondered if anyone could help to identify the problems im having with my kalichakra plants. Ive just sexed them and from 10 got 5 fems and one possible but as you can see the lower leaves have started to yellow. Were in 10l airpots before switching to 12/12 then i figured they may be rootbound so i double potted them. Hardly fed these babies due to repots and have had no end of problems with them. Not really sure what im doing wrong. Watering when dry roughly every 3-5 days depending with 6.5ph. Fed once with plant magic 5-3-3 on one occasion and biobizz alg a mic a couple of times. Im just mindful of overfeeding due to these strains being "nutrient sensitive" as mike from mandala would explain. Leaves are very dry to touch on bottom leaves, yellowing turning brown then dying, starting to move up plant. Also i had noticed befor repotting that the top growth was very thin and much lighter green. Are these babies locked out? Some guidance would be much appreciated

Muchos gracias


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## PlanC (Nov 26, 2011)

What ec are you feeding them?


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## PlanC (Nov 26, 2011)

It sounds like the plant is eating it self cause its starving.


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## JRTokin (Nov 26, 2011)

Not sure its starving, its had plenty of food in the soil to keep it going during veg. I only flipped her to 12/12 last week


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 26, 2011)

You've been hittin' 'em with that bloom stuff again?

First photo reflects chlorosis.


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## PlanC (Nov 26, 2011)

give it some N.


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## JRTokin (Nov 27, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> You've been hittin' 'em with that bloom stuff again?
> 
> First photo reflects chlorosis.


Ha, yeah fraid so UB! I gave them one watering of plant magic bloom, didnt think it would be strong enough to start this off though being an organic formula. My mistake, ive fed them since with the grow formula hopefully this will correct this. Do you reccomend a flush UB? or should i just continue to feed with n formula for a couple more weeks? will this correct itself or continue to spread?


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 27, 2011)

JRTokin said:


> Ha, yeah fraid so UB! I gave them one watering of plant magic bloom, didnt think it would be strong enough to start this off though being an organic formula. My mistake, ive fed them since with the grow formula hopefully this will correct this. Do you reccomend a flush UB? or should i just continue to feed with n formula for a couple more weeks? will this correct itself or continue to spread?


Go with a high N food and watch. Flush if you want. I've found that the "aw shits" with cannabis are usually with you until the end, on the existing plant material that is.


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## JRTokin (Nov 28, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> Go with a high N food and watch. Flush if you want. I've found that the "aw shits" with cannabis are usually with you until the end, on the existing plant material that is.


Yeah tell me about it, i seem to have had no end of "aw shit" moments. Im gonna stick with the N formula, the ratio is 5-3-3 so hopefully this may somehow correct the imbalance and try to flush as a last resort. 

another quick question for you, do you recommend the use of silicone additives? Ive been trying out this one which claims to thicken stems, give higher yields and kill bacterial pathogens etc, but in your experience are they any good or just a waste of $?

Thanks


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 28, 2011)

The only silicone additives I enjoy are in the female humanoid species.


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## smoke n strum (Nov 28, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> The only silicone additives I enjoy are in the female humanoid species.


Where can you get a coupon code for those?


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 29, 2011)

smoke n strum said:


> Where can you get a coupon code for those?


Do a gOOGLE.


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## wyteboi (Dec 1, 2011)

JRTokin said:


> another quick question for you, do you recommend the use of silicone additives?
> Thanks


UB is too old to even know what a silicone additive is ! 


just kiddin , ub knows everything an if he dont , then he is danm good at pretendin...

much love to you an your family ub. happy holidays .... an thanks for all the beautiful info you been spreadin for YEARS. 





keep um green !


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## LittleT (Dec 1, 2011)

how about this one BenView attachment 1913907


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## JRTokin (Dec 1, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> The only silicone additives I enjoy are in the female humanoid species.


 good one UB, and cheers for the advice. I thought id leave the plans for a couple of days without checking them so id see a definate improvement/deterioration and i must say after watering with the grow nutes the chlorosis hasnt spread any further and they have definatly grown both in height and bushiness. lack of N maybe caused this at a crucial stage. They are looking much healthier.

see what you think:





wyteboi said:


> UB is too old to even know what a silicone additive is !


Ha ha well its a good job hes still taking the time to answer all of our questions because we can all learn from all those years of valuable experience


Just out of curiosity they are still just showing small pistils and were flipped two weeks ago could they take longer to flower if put into 12/12 too early?

If so when would i go about changing the nute schedule to a more flower ratio?

Thanks again for your help


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## airamb (Dec 1, 2011)

Haven't have any of those plants yet.


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## wyteboi (Dec 3, 2011)

JRTokin said:


> good one UB, and cheers for the advice. I thought id leave the plans for a couple of days without checking them so id see a definate improvement/deterioration and i must say after watering with the grow nutes the chlorosis hasnt spread any further and they have definatly grown both in height and bushiness. lack of N maybe caused this at a crucial stage. They are looking much healthier.
> 
> see what you think:
> 
> ...


There is no such thing as too early , its gonna finish the same time no matter how long you veg. (depending on the stress levels)

wait till you see flowers before usin a more flower ratio. an even after that dont forget the plant still needs N all the way through flower.





soil


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## wyteboi (Dec 3, 2011)

LittleT said:


> how about this one BenView attachment 1913907


that needs more N right now. too much bloom food an not enough of what it needs. 





soil


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## mackey (Dec 3, 2011)

xMOONx said:


> *My horse manure works good for me an my girls love it! Also excellent compost from around where my horses eat their hay from the round bales.*
> 
> *I also have a Llama--wonder what that would do for fert.? Better read up on that one. LOL*


My neighbor's pasture for horse is between our houses. Never thought of this. I guess I'll have to steal some poop.


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## mackey (Dec 3, 2011)

My run off water is sooo acid. I added lime to soil when mixed and then realized my well water was so acid. Buying distilled now and it is good ph, flushed and added little more lime to top but still runoff is acid. Anything else I can do? Can I add aquarium ph up to my well water or will it have bad effect on plants.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 3, 2011)

Soil is a powerful pH buffering medium. Water has little long term affect on soil pH unless it's extreme, like a pH of 9.0 or 4.5.


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## mackey (Dec 3, 2011)

Boiled water 10 minutes this morning and the ph went way up. Not acid anymore.
Don't have to purchased distilled any more.


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## jdog12420 (Dec 4, 2011)




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## jdog12420 (Dec 4, 2011)

can someone please help???!!! why are the leaves curling downward??


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## jdog12420 (Dec 4, 2011)

View attachment 1918659View attachment 1918658


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## jdog12420 (Dec 4, 2011)

can someone help lol


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## mackey (Dec 4, 2011)

I'm new at this but read alot on here and mine was doing the same. Most likely too much water. Mine were also dark green and it was Nitro overload.


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## smoke n strum (Dec 4, 2011)

They look over watered. It's hard to tell with so little info. Give some detail and put your pics in right side up. Tell us what you are doing, what light, what soil. get rid of that clay pot, they suck. They leach water out of your soil and make it hard to control moisture.

Transplant it into a pot ( not clay) with a lot of holes in the bottom or make one and use a growing medium that has excellent drainage (lots of vermiculite and perlite)so water does not drown the roots. They need air and water. Also read the first page of this thread and this paying attention to the capillary affect:

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/greenhouse/nursery/guides/ornamentals/water.html

I hope it helps

sns


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## hppy2balive (Dec 4, 2011)

Uncle Ben! U know ur shit! I dont! lol I have grown outside many of years! Just started my first indoor growing using CFLs to start off! I currently am watering the plant when the soil is dry 2in below, the plant seems to be sucking up the water cuz i notice the pot is much lighter weight 24hours later. Im currently growing in 20% compost, 20% peat, 60% MG Garden Soil. The plants leaves remain droopy, I have started using the Go Box nutes by General Organics, I have only watered it twice with the nutes, every other watering! Leaves remain Droopy for past 4-5 days? Temp stays above 70 no more than 80 humidity ranges from 40-55%. The plant is grown in a Stealth Cab, here is a pic:
View attachment 1919151


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## hppy2balive (Dec 4, 2011)

also lower leaves feel very Crisp to touch, slight yellowing on lower leafs. Very dark green lower leafs, very light green new growth ALL droopy!
View attachment 1919157


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 4, 2011)

You have a root problem. Rot, or a watering issue.


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## DrFever (Dec 4, 2011)

hppy2balive said:


> Uncle Ben! U know ur shit! I dont! lol I have grown outside many of years! Just started my first indoor growing using CFLs to start off! I currently am watering the plant when the soil is dry 2in below, the plant seems to be sucking up the water cuz i notice the pot is much lighter weight 24hours later. Im currently growing in 20% compost, 20% peat, 60% MG Garden Soil. The plants leaves remain droopy, I have started using the Go Box nutes by General Organics, I have only watered it twice with the nutes, every other watering! Leaves remain Droopy for past 4-5 days? Temp stays above 70 no more than 80 humidity ranges from 40-55%. The plant is grown in a Stealth Cab, here is a pic:
> View attachment 1919151


looks to me plants are either thirsty need more air movement i mean fresh air and or heat related 
why i say this is my plants sometimes look like that after 18hrs of over million lumens 
are you runnign on 24 hr lighting ???? if so i would suggest 18/6


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## PlanC (Dec 4, 2011)

Hey guys.

I got something growing on the top of one of my plants. Is this bud mold??? It seems to be a part of the top bud. Any ideas. And yes I had a big problem with cal/mag deficiency earlier in flower.

Day 44 flower, RH between 55%and 60%.


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## PlanC (Dec 5, 2011)

Nevermind, its just light bleaching. Disregard my question.


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## wyteboi (Dec 5, 2011)

PlanC said:


> Nevermind, its just light bleaching. Disregard my question.


Once again .... more proof that there is such thing as too much of anything ... including light.





soil


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## Fouf (Dec 6, 2011)

Help!! these plants were started in the same pot by a friend, can i transplant? or is too risky? also there are brown spots on edges, i water once a week and fertilize every other week with high N Terra Vega brand fertilizer. they are grown under a 525 w CFL daylight color spectrum. the strain is White Russian, they just dont look 100% healthy. i recently trimmed the bottom and took 3 cuttings frm the base of the plant. i think the big one is 7 weeks old and the smaller one is 4 or 3 weeks old


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## wyteboi (Dec 6, 2011)

Fouf said:


> Help!! these plants were started in the same pot by a friend, can i transplant? or is too risky? also there are brown spots on edges, i water once a week and fertilize every other week with high N Terra Vega brand fertilizer. they are grown under a 525 w CFL daylight color spectrum. the strain is White Russian, they just dont look 100% healthy. i recently trimmed the bottom and took 3 cuttings frm the base of the plant. i think the big one is 7 weeks old and the smaller one is 4 or 3 weeks old


your soil is staying too moist. go by the wieght of the pot if your havin probs. let her dry out real good before feeding again. it will proly take a week or 2 for that pot to dry out enough to water again. 
dont worry bout the top of the pot because all your extra moisture is in the bottom.






soil


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## Fouf (Dec 6, 2011)

yeah recently i might have watered in close proximity with an intention to flush, makes sense! So the brown spots are also caused by the high moisture?


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## eggnog (Dec 6, 2011)

*our plants are just seedlings, almost two weeks old, its our first time growing and the cotyledon leaves are starting to turn brown and wither away, but the true leaves are looking fine, except a few of my plants true leaves are curling into themselves, we believe we over watered them, and they may be getting root rot, we bought some root excelurator, and were going to use it next time we water, but were hoping its the best thing to do for them right now, do you believe so ? if not please help ! *


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## wyteboi (Dec 6, 2011)

Fouf said:


> yeah recently i might have watered in close proximity with an intention to flush, makes sense! So the brown spots are also caused by the high moisture?


yes thats correct 




soil


----------



## wyteboi (Dec 6, 2011)

eggnog said:


> * we believe we over watered them, and they may be getting root rot, we bought some root excelurator, and were going to use it next time we water, but were hoping its the best thing to do for them right now, do you believe so ? if not please help !*


*

just let um dry out real good between waterings , they dont look bad at all , thats normal. they are slightly overwatered but it appears that mix will dry up quick , just dont be ancy on the water .... they will tell you if they need water that bad.

in the meantime , READ READ an READ some more. 





good luck. 


soil*


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## eggnog (Dec 6, 2011)

There are a few things we're concerned about The pre-Leafs on the plants there turning brown and withering is that normal for 2 weeks old??


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## farmersmurf (Dec 11, 2011)

uncle ben.. more then just rice!


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## PlanC (Dec 13, 2011)

Need more info like:
Soil type
PH of water going in

Also what type of light are you using. If its not a hid light I would lower it a bit to stop them from streching.


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## Keith Stone (Dec 14, 2011)

I'm only up to the high 400's in consuming this thread, but wanted to jump ahead to say THANKS UB and to some of the other clear-headed contributors to this thread. My garDEENias (pronounced as Marlon Brands does in the role of Col.Kurtz*) are looking lovely (better) already.

If you don't mind TB, I'm running a quote of yours for a sig. Cheers and Mellow!

*for those who have no clue the reference: http://celso-lazaretti.suite101.com/the-gardenia-scene-in-apocalypse-now-a212792


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## *BUDS (Dec 15, 2011)

Just wondering ,when a plant has suffered upper leaf damage from hid lamp, can it affect the plant overall and stop it growing?. Also can this damage appear as a blistered pale leaf/leaves ?


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## wyteboi (Dec 15, 2011)

*BUDS said:


> Just wondering ,when a plant has suffered upper leaf damage from hid lamp, can it affect the plant overall and stop it growing?. Also can this damage appear as a blistered pale leaf/leaves ?


well it will for sure stop that area from growing. the thing that will stop the whole plant from growing is the heat in the room. (or many other reasons)

too much light can cause the pail , cause it burns up the chloraphyll. 







soil


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## high land (Dec 15, 2011)

hello uncle ben sounds like you know what you are doing could use your tutor help high land how do i flush plants high land


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 15, 2011)

Keith Stone said:


> I'm only up to the high 400's in consuming this thread, but wanted to jump ahead to say THANKS UB and to some of the other clear-headed contributors to this thread. My garDEENias (pronounced as Marlon Brands does in the role of Col.Kurtz*) are looking lovely (better) already.
> 
> If you don't mind TB, I'm running a quote of yours for a sig. Cheers and Mellow!
> 
> *for those who have no clue the reference: http://celso-lazaretti.suite101.com/the-gardenia-scene-in-apocalypse-now-a212792


You're welcome.

Too much light bleaches out chlorophyll, an essential pigment for photosynthesis. 

You can top, cut out, the burned branches which will induce new foliar output. Any time you remove or cause necrosis of leaves you reduce plant vigor, health, and production.


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## *BUDS (Dec 15, 2011)

Thanks for answers, Wyte and ben.


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## KUShSOurSMOKEr (Dec 15, 2011)

Uncle ben great post...Also UNCLE BEN what is ur new lineup u are using? I no u like walmart brands...Sour.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 15, 2011)

KUShSOurSMOKEr said:


> Uncle ben great post...Also UNCLE BEN what is ur new lineup u are using? I no u like walmart brands...Sour.


I don't have any specific "line up". Whatever is on the shelf.....


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## KUShSOurSMOKEr (Dec 15, 2011)

nice  ive read about 20 to 30 pages of ur posts!!! got to say u helped me alot

big thing is about how u said never let the soil get TO DRYY ..now that im watering everyday noticing that the top of the soil is so dry ITS WORKIN GOOD

check out my started thread uncle ben would love to have u by  my first ever grow n i got plants over 4 ft n 8 + tops

SOur.


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## KUShSOurSMOKEr (Dec 15, 2011)

Check out my thread if u gotta min uncle ben ull be suprise for my first grow


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## burrr (Dec 15, 2011)

what thread?


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## KUShSOurSMOKEr (Dec 15, 2011)

its in my signature i just updated it ..


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## Keith Stone (Dec 19, 2011)

Made it to the end (okay i skimmed a few pages). Compiled many sound nuggets of wisdom and have more to read from herein referenced sources, lots to learn. Thanks again to* UB *and *the like-minded *"mature" contributors in this 1,600+ post thread.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 19, 2011)

Welcome....pardner!


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## nocakeforyou (Dec 19, 2011)

is this moisture stress?


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## burrr (Dec 19, 2011)

nocakeforyou said:


> is this moisture stress?
> 
> View attachment 1943835


looks like flowering to me. perfectly normal


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## nocakeforyou (Dec 19, 2011)

burrr said:


> looks like flowering to me. perfectly normal


but the strain is northern lights which is an indica dominant? and therefore the leaves seem oddly skinny?


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## burrr (Dec 19, 2011)

nocakeforyou said:


> but the strain is northern lights which is an indica dominant? and therefore the leaves seem oddly skinny?


She looks very happy, even with her skinny leaves. moisture stress is known for doing lots of strange things to leaves, but causing them to be thin is not on the list. what ever you are doing, keep it up for another 5 weeks


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## Mister Black (Dec 22, 2011)

This is a NL auto which I just repotted. It showed these signs before the repotting, after I transferred it indoors under lights after being outdoors as a seedling. I thought the problem might be three fold, high PH, too much light, crappy soil. Have tried to solve all three problems. Did I come tot he right conclusion?


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## wyteboi (Dec 23, 2011)

Mister Black said:


> This is a NL auto which I just repotted. It showed these signs before the repotting, after I transferred it indoors under lights after being outdoors as a seedling. I thought the problem might be three fold, high PH, too much light, crappy soil. Have tried to solve all three problems. Did I come tot he right conclusion?
> View attachment 1949192



its staying too wet. let those roots get some more air




soil


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## GotDaChronic (Dec 26, 2011)

Hey uncle ben shave a question for you if you don't mind. All of my plants have the tips of the leaves pointing towards the ground, it is the worst in my 3 white berry's that are ten days into flower, there last feeding consisted of AN bloom a and b (10ml of ea) bud ignightor(6ml) bud candy (6 ish ml) and rhino sskin(6ml)
also I have a bubblegum ice that's four ish weeks into flower with very minimal tips drooping, but a few tips are twisted. My plants that are over two weeks into flower are receiving AN Bloom.A/b 10ml bud candy 6 ish ml rhino skin 6ml big bud 10ml (I just received nirvana the organic version of it and im switching over to that as we speak) and im also starting to use sensyzym more religiously. Do you think my problem has to do with to much N? Or could b
e watering a little bit to frequently. Also I am burning suffer about once every two or three days and some of the plants have weird leaf growth but I think that its from the suffer not sure tho. Thanks in advance. If you need pictures let me know


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## GotDaChronic (Dec 26, 2011)

here are the pics


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 27, 2011)

GotDaChronic said:


> Hey uncle ben shave a question for you if you don't mind. All of my plants have the tips of the leaves pointing towards the ground, it is the worst in my 3 white berry's that are ten days into flower, there last feeding consisted of AN bloom a and b (10ml of ea) bud ignightor(6ml) bud candy (6 ish ml) and rhino sskin(6ml)
> also I have a bubblegum ice that's four ish weeks into flower with very minimal tips drooping, but a few tips are twisted. My plants that are over two weeks into flower are receiving AN Bloom.A/b 10ml bud candy 6 ish ml rhino skin 6ml big bud 10ml (I just received nirvana the organic version of it and im switching over to that as we speak) and im also starting to use sensyzym more religiously. Do you think my problem has to do with to much N? Or could b
> e watering a little bit to frequently. Also I am burning suffer about once every two or three days and some of the plants have weird leaf growth but I think that its from the suffer not sure tho. Thanks in advance. If you need pictures let me know


Sorry, don't know a thing about those foods but they look fine to me. Need the NPK values, amounts, etc.


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## GotDaChronic (Dec 27, 2011)

sensibloom a is 4-0-4 sensibloom b is1-5-6 rhino skin is 0-0-0.4 bud ignightor is 0-1-2 and big bud is 0-1-3


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## *BUDS (Dec 30, 2011)

Uncle ben, great thread very informative.
Just wondering i have a problem with leaf blistering,new growth pale and stunted some plants dont recover. Raised lights ,checked ph nothong worked but i noticed at the time this was happening the liquid in the veg nutes bottle had crytaliized/hardened in the bottle (should be all liquid) and sounded like solid salts shaking around in there(i put lid on loose). Could this have affected the npk and trace element distribution and maybe burned the plant?


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 30, 2011)

*BUDS said:


> Uncle ben, great thread very informative.
> Just wondering i have a problem with leaf blistering,new growth pale and stunted some plants dont recover. Raised lights ,checked ph nothong worked but i noticed at the time this was happening the liquid in the veg nutes bottle had crytaliized/hardened in the bottle (should be all liquid) and sounded like solid salts shaking around in there(i put lid on loose). Could this have affected the npk and trace element distribution and maybe burned the plant?


Could have been caused by a dozen things. Why did you raise the light?


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## *BUDS (Dec 31, 2011)

To try and eliminate light bleaching as a possibility. The reason i think its the hydro veg nutes is that when i put them in the flower room 1000hps and flowering nutes they improve 100% but the affected leaves stay damaged. They also responded well( some leaves got their colour back) when weak foliar spray with MG 20-4-12.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 31, 2011)

*BUDS said:


> To try and eliminate light bleaching as a possibility. The reason i think its the hydro veg nutes is that when i put them in the flower room 1000hps and flowering nutes they improve 100% but the affected leaves stay damaged. They also responded well( some leaves got their colour back) when weak foliar spray with MG 20-4-12.


Bleaching is a distinct possibility, reason why I asked. I already speculated what was wrong. Read what I have to say about light, the first page.


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## thousanaire (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey uncle Ben really like the thread, thanks for all the good info I'm having a problem I'm in week 4 of flowering and am hhaving a lot of yellowing at first I thought it was normal for the lower leaves to yellow because I am doing a scrog but now the main leaves are yellowing too and a few of the plants are strating to thin out and look unhealthy I jus wanted to kno what would be the best thing I can do to try and turn them around and keep them healyhty and alive. Thanks.


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 2, 2012)

thousanaire said:


> Hey uncle Ben really like the thread, thanks for all the good info I'm having a problem I'm in week 4 of flowering and am hhaving a lot of yellowing at first I thought it was normal for the lower leaves to yellow because I am doing a scrog but now the main leaves are yellowing too and a few of the plants are strating to thin out and look unhealthy I jus wanted to kno what would be the best thing I can do to try and turn them around and keep them healyhty and alive. Thanks.


Stop using low N bloom foods and buying into the snake oil vendor and forum hype.


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## wyteboi (Jan 8, 2012)

Phate said:


> I think this is my first post after a year of reading, a slight attempt i discarded and my current attempt which is about to be harvested and some bought seeds doing just fine. I would like to say one bit of advice to anyone having issues with watering wilting, whatever... If you follow your plants... and they were doing fine... then mess up... there is ONE solution... the solution is to STOP. STOp STOP... if they were fine and now arent then whatever you STARTED to do harmed them and the solution is to STOP doing it... I put seeds in dirt and water and forget until time to water, experimented with MG (plant still alive) bought some chemical mix from i think its techniflora, still alive... forgot about the plant until it dried and cracked and without reading just bottom fed it as a common sense thing.... plant still fine, pilfered some early buds without (gasp) sterilizing shit, just busted off some buds a couple weeks ago and dried them shitty like to smoke, still growing, oh yeah.. my cat eats leaves when pull it out... still growing... so with all the questions and answers and what not I have one single question I havent figured out yet. HOW EXACTLY DO YOU KILL A POT PLANT? Aside from taking it out of the pot, chopping it up and burying it in my compost heap I havent been able to figure out just how to kill a pot plant. Any help?


thats your green thumb at work  i did that for years until i went fully organic , now i know what it takes to kill one. 

drown the roots (water everyday) will kill it in about two weeks.. topps.
go get the advanced nutrients off your shelf , reach for the most expensive bottle and dump it on the plant. (2 kills with one stone)
when im on my killin sprees , i folier feed with bleach. 

if you really want them dead today then just bounce around this forum and post "i have probs" an use every bit of the advice thrown your way.





soil ..... good mornin all !


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## *BUDS (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks uncle ben , It seems like the light. The previous strain(iranian auto) had the same 400w about 12" away no worries, this new indica cant even handle the 400w mh 24", its at 30" now and the leaves seem ok. Summer is here now so could the extra couple of degrees cels contributed to the burn/bleaching damage?
Also like i said when put into the flower room under the 1000w they are fine at about 30" away, no damage at all thats why this had me stuffed.


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## *BUDS (Jan 8, 2012)

Phate said:


> I think this is my first post after a year of reading, a slight attempt i discarded and my current attempt which is about to be harvested and some bought seeds doing just fine. I would like to say one bit of advice to anyone having issues with watering wilting, whatever... If you follow your plants... and they were doing fine... then mess up... there is ONE solution... the solution is to STOP. STOp STOP... if they were fine and now arent then whatever you STARTED to do harmed them and the solution is to STOP doing it... I put seeds in dirt and water and forget until time to water, experimented with MG (plant still alive) bought some chemical mix from i think its techniflora, still alive... forgot about the plant until it dried and cracked and without reading just bottom fed it as a common sense thing.... plant still fine, pilfered some early buds without (gasp) sterilizing shit, just busted off some buds a couple weeks ago and dried them shitty like to smoke, still growing, oh yeah.. my cat eats leaves when pull it out... still growing... so with all the questions and answers and what not I have one single question I havent figured out yet. HOW EXACTLY DO YOU KILL A POT PLANT? Aside from taking it out of the pot, chopping it up and burying it in my compost heap I havent been able to figure out just how to kill a pot plant. Any help?


i want to save mine you want to kill yours ,WTF.


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## PlanC (Jan 8, 2012)

I think he posted in the wrong forum.


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## dannyboy602 (Jan 14, 2012)

i do water my plants with care but you can't see dry spots in the soil unless you pull the plant and look. i think my cupping/curling is from dry spots. dried peat moss actually repels water. so ima water from the top, bottom and the friggin sides from now on to make sure i wet the whole medium, every time.
i'm glad i read this just to reaffirm my diagnosis.


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## *BUDS (Jan 15, 2012)

Uncle ben ,it turned out to be heat stress (got too hot in the veg room now its summer ,it got under my guard) They are fine now. 
Thanks for this info on moisture stress, using your methods such as a plant can be watered a lot more if its green and healthy from top to bottom. now i dont water when pot is light to lift only when the plant says its time to water(slight lower leaf sag) and my heads are longer, thicker and every leaf is dark green and vigorous, i could water these every day no worries and before i watered when the pot went bone dry and wondered why i had yellowing saggy leaves,small heads etc. Also the plant seems to finish quicker with no moisture stress.


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 15, 2012)

Yep, never stress a plant due to a lack of moisture, plus it ruins the soil structure. When plants lack moisture, it stunts them as carbo production is compromised.


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## dannyboy602 (Jan 15, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Yep, never stress a plant due to a lack of moisture, plus it ruins the soil structure. When plants lack moisture, it stunts them as carbo production is compromised.


UB... could you tell me about how soil structure is damaged by drought stressing plants? Also, when the soil is dry does the other life in the soil suffer?


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## wyteboi (Jan 16, 2012)

dannyboy602 said:


> UB... could you tell me about how soil structure is damaged by drought stressing plants? Also, when the soil is dry does the other life in the soil suffer?


 i aint UB but i love dirt!

the plants roots an all the other life in the soil thrive off moisture and aeration. take either one of those away and there is no more thriving , now its struggling. roots die when dry, and the rest of the microlife will either die or go dormant. 

i cant tell you all the negatives to letting the soil get too dry , but i can tell you that all the "life" in the soil needs plenty of moisture and aeration to thrive. 

it takes a lot to build a good soil , and letting it dry too much can fuck that all up.





soil


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## jojo4life91 (Jan 16, 2012)

anyone know why this would happen. leaves started curling up and the sides. leaves got dark green with rust colors and got dry and died. i cut all the dead leaves for now. flushed yesterday.View attachment 2001499View attachment 2001500View attachment 2001504View attachment 2001505View attachment 2001509


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 17, 2012)

Dry soil creates hard to water channels and pockets within the rootball. The soil particles will actually repel water molecules. It's an ion thingie. 

I don't have a lab to test soil microbe count, sorry. I can only ASSUME that dry soil induces the soil microbe colony to go dormant, as it does in nature. Like you, they have to have water. Now, since they're in a constant state of reproduction, growth and dieing, one can only assume that dry conditions are no bueno.


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## wyteboi (Jan 18, 2012)

just to make my last post clear ..... i am with UB in _assuming_ the microbes ect.. will go dormant in dry soil, i dont know what happens for a fact but i know what everything wants to thrive.



soil


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## wyteboi (Jan 18, 2012)

jojo4life91 said:


> anyone know why this would happen. leaves started curling up and the sides. leaves got dark green with rust colors and got dry and died. i cut all the dead leaves for now. flushed yesterday


waay too much food , with an unbalanced diet , and probably too moist too.





soil


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## newwb (Jan 19, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Thanks man! Really happy to be here! The abundance of master gardeners and the good will of the general membership is refreshing.
> 
> Still learning after all these years,
> Uncle Ben


MY GOD..this plant is a monster!!!! and a damn fine looking one, at that!!!!


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## HuckleberryFinn (Mar 20, 2012)

111111111111111


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## hydranthead (Mar 21, 2012)

tryinghard said:


> hey UNC i gotta give credit where credits due,,,, and like u said its helped many people over the years i am sure, and 3 years from now it will still be helping thx 2 people like you,,, hell sometimes it feels like i completely left the forest let alone lose sight of it,,,peace




Well its 3 years later and yes this thread is still helping people!


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## puppasmurf (Apr 7, 2012)

double sorry


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## puppasmurf (Apr 7, 2012)

Hey I think ive got a Overwatering problem.... 

Im using a 4 valve air pump with each valve pumping out 200L/H into a 18L tub

Question though my roots are fuken white. White as gods cum and they look bluddy good so im little confused there Though when they were in veg and in RCDWC some did have brown on them and yukky shit on the bottom of the tub.Anyway heres some pics if anyone can help
View attachment 2110735View attachment 2110735


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## PentaBiker (Apr 8, 2012)

i also might have a slight problem. i have been feeding mine every time i water, according to the feeding schedule for my nutrient line. one lower leaf shows signs of nitrogen defecency, but im not worried about that. what i am worried about though, is the leaves coming out of the buds. only a couple are affected so far, but it worries me.


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## mk3coupe (Apr 8, 2012)

Hey Uncle Buck, I got one for you. Ive been trying to find an answer toView attachment 2113412View attachment 2113413View attachment 2113414Even the new grown has this problem. I flushed them all today. It seems to only be in this strain I have, super lemon haze. None of my other have this problem. I greatly appreciate the help.


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## wyteboi (Apr 12, 2012)

puppasmurf said:


> Hey I think ive got a Overwatering problem....
> 
> Im using a 4 valve air pump with each valve pumping out 200L/H into a 18L tub
> 
> ...


the pic you show looks fine , thats just the stuff on the bottom that cant get much light. trim all that shit off.


soil


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## wyteboi (Apr 12, 2012)

PentaBiker said:


> i also might have a slight problem. i have been feeding mine every time i water, according to the feeding schedule for my nutrient line. one lower leaf shows signs of nitrogen defecency, but im not worried about that. what i am worried about though, is the leaves coming out of the buds. only a couple are affected so far, but it worries me. View attachment 2113363View attachment 2113364


give her two strait doses of veg food after a strait watering. (just a guess , without seeing the plant)


soil


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## wyteboi (Apr 12, 2012)

mk3coupe said:


> Hey Uncle Buck, I got one for you. Ive been trying to find an answer toView attachment 2113412View attachment 2113413View attachment 2113414Even the new grown has this problem. I flushed them all today. It seems to only be in this strain I have, super lemon haze. None of my other have this problem. I greatly appreciate the help.


looks like too much water and food both. haze is picky about food. since you flushed , now you gotta wait extra long to try an fix um. she is too wet to do anything to right now. dont give her no more food for a few waterings , just water. after you get to that point then feed her a BALENCED diet. 1-1-1, 20-20-20, 5-5-5 or whatever is close to balenced.



soil


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## PentaBiker (Apr 12, 2012)

thanks wyteboi!


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## puppasmurf (Apr 13, 2012)

wyteboi said:


> the pic you show looks fine , thats just the stuff on the bottom that cant get much light. trim all that shit off.
> 
> 
> soil


Legend thanks


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## 90cody (Apr 25, 2012)

maybe someone can answer some questions here.

Problem:
-Extremely dry Leaves
-Grey Necrosis on middle leaves
-Brown / Copper / Bronze tiny spots

Environment:
- Temp: 68-85
- Humidity: 20-50
- Ventilation: 6" Inline Fan 440 CFM
- Space: 4.5 x 4.5 x 6.5
- Light: 400 Watt HPS Cool Tube
- 12" osculating Blizzard Fan

Setup:
- 2 Gal Bucket DWC Hydroponic
- Medium: Rockwool / Hydroton
- 6" Net pot

H2O:
- pH: 5.4-5.8
- EC - 1.0
- PPM: 450
- Foxfarms Grow Big 1.5tsp per gal
- Tiger bloom: 2tsp per gal
- Big Bloom: 1.5tsp per gal
- Microbrew and Kangaroots: 1/4 tsp per gal
- Cal-Mag : 1tsp per gal

so im trying to figure out why my leaves are not getting water? they are not cupping, only dying back on some fan leaves, but they are paper dry


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 25, 2012)

90cody said:


> - Foxfarms Grow Big 1.5tsp per gal
> - Tiger bloom: 2tsp per gal
> - Big Bloom: 1.5tsp per gal
> - Microbrew and Kangaroots: 1/4 tsp per gal
> ...


Looks like a lot of salts to me.


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## Butcher Bob (Apr 25, 2012)

Hey Ben 

Coulda swore I had sent another long e-mail...with my luck I probly closed the window insteada hittin "send".

Bin tryin the buckit stuff myself...~Goddess Supreme~ sed you might git a kick outta my struggles...I concurred. So have a look...here...and have a chuckle at my expense. I feel like such a n00b agin.


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## 90cody (Apr 25, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Looks like a lot of salts to me.


what should my PPM or EC be if it is to much?

Like i said my PPM is only 450 and i have read on here that 

eedlings should be around 50-150 PPM
Unrooted clones to be around 100-350 PPM
small plants to be around 400-800 PPM
large plants to be around 900-1800 PPM
Last week of flowering use plain water.

so if this is true, i just do not understand how at 450 PPM i am having nute burn??? 

i need someone to guide me in the right direction with E.C and PPM or tell me the exceptions to these rules???

also, the fox farm feeding schedule is calling for 1.8 E.C and 1600-1800 PPM at week 6, obviously i am no where near that strong...


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## wyteboi (Apr 26, 2012)

90cody said:


> what should my PPM or EC be if it is to much?
> 
> Like i said my PPM is only 450 and i have read on here that
> 
> ...


up the food a bit. thats not too much , thats not enough. go with 3 tsp of grow big with your mix. and dont use the calmag more then once a week or less. if you got a food with a high K then give it that for a feeding or two, then go back to regular diet.
450 is barely enough for a baby if done right.


soil


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## 90cody (Apr 26, 2012)

wyteboi said:


> up the food a bit. thats not too much , thats not enough. go with 3 tsp of grow big with your mix. and dont use the calmag more then once a week or less. if you got a food with a high K then give it that for a feeding or two, then go back to regular diet.
> 450 is barely enough for a baby if done right.
> 
> 
> soil


thank you bud, i was thinking the same thing but needed that 2nd opinion..
i do have one question..

u say dont give cal mag except once a week?? since i have a hydro system that would not be possible unless i foilar feed once a week ? 

i also have noticed foilar feeding water has seem to help with how dry the leaves are.. so could this be because lack of nutrients making it hard for the water transpiration to travel to the leaves...

because its definitely not moving to fast from the leaves or they would be curling up, so its like they are not quite making it to some of them..

new growth is still going and i can see flowers starting to come out and im starting to get some skunky smell..

edit: also added rep+ to you


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## wyteboi (Apr 27, 2012)

90cody said:


> thank you bud, i was thinking the same thing but needed that 2nd opinion..
> i do have one question..
> 
> u say dont give cal mag except once a week?? since i have a hydro system that would not be possible unless i foilar feed once a week ?
> ...


it dont matter if its hydro or not , just put the cal mag in once a week or less. (the plant will pull it out of the water pretty quick.)
anything but RO water dont need the extra ca an mg but if you got it then once a week or two is fine. 
the leaf is not "drying out" , its dying. it could be a number of things , but im gonna go with lack of food. (mainly K) when a plant runs out of food it will start eating its own leaves. (mainly N) too much ca can lock out N .... ect...

up your whole diet and she will be fine.


soil


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## 90cody (Apr 27, 2012)

i under the impression that a DWC system can go weeks without using up nutrients for some reason??

so that brings up another question, why does the PPM not drop down after weeks of a plant using the nutrients??

I have also added 1/2 tsp of Big Bloom and Tiger bloom (1 tsp) total, which brought PPM from 450 to 550 and EC from .9 to 1.0

They are not as dry although i still see brown spots progressing, if i must say it seems that it is slowed slightly..

so im gonna give em all day today and then tomorrow add another tsp of BB and TB which should bring it up to 650.. and give it another 2 days to react. i plan on doing this until i get it about 750-850

also have some more pics of some pruned damaged leaves


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## 90cody (Apr 27, 2012)

also , since you seem to have a good head on your shoulders, may i pass this question to you?

let me know what u think is going on ..

Setup.
Closet 2x3.5
One T5 90watt grow light
One T5 light from lowes this one has more of a yellow tone compared to the grow light which is white blue
Coco Coir mixed with cut peices of rockwool and hydroton at bottom inch to stop coir and ensure drainage
Red cups until i transfer them to either bigger buckets or switch them to dwc buckets (depending on what people think i should do, im always willing to learn)
Feed once and water twice, i wait till top soil is dry and cup is light , coco coir has good water rentention.
Im not sure if feeding is to early but i am only feeding them 250 ppm, just basic grow big fox farms ( i start with a 25ppm tap water that is sitting in clean DWC resivour)

Pictures:
1. & 2. Are the same plant, Pic 1 being a close up of what looks like a pH issue, but runoff is 6.5-6.8. This is auora indica
3. I think this one is Ice, seems healthy for the most part , not sure if i should be looking for darker green or not..
4. Seems to have mutated leaves.. not sure what is causing this.. 
5. Purple Power, looking healthy , one concern is the yellowing tips and grey necrosis?

Thanks in advance


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## Cavemurph420 (Apr 27, 2012)

Hello Uncle Ben. I'm new and I need help.

I am in the 7th week of vegging (Mazzar), the other day I noticed this plant looked a little over watered (tips curling under), so I haven't watered it since then. Then this morning it looked a little wilted. I water it the same time as my other plants and they are fine. I have given it seabird guano tea twice, and started using molasses every third watering starting week 3, and strait water in between. They are 4 gallon pots with good drainage. I am using a 600 Watt MH bulb 2 ft. above the plants. This is my second grow. I had no problem with my first grow (I used fluros). Until the other day it was very healthy, the fan leaves are huge...Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 27, 2012)

Cavemurph420 said:


> Hello Uncle Ben. I'm new and I need help.
> 
> I am in the 7th week of vegging (Mazzar), the other day I noticed this plant looked a little over watered (tips curling under), so I haven't watered it since then. Then this morning it looked a little wilted. I water it the same time as my other plants and they are fine. I have given it seabird guano tea twice, and started using molasses every third watering starting week 3, and strait water in between. They are 4 gallon pots with good drainage. I am using a 600 Watt MH bulb 2 ft. above the plants. This is my second grow. I had no problem with my first grow (I used fluros). Until the other day it was very healthy, the fan leaves are huge...Any help would be greatly appreciated.



That plant has plenty of foliage which is rapidly wicking off soil moisture. Water the hell out of it. If the pot is light to the lift, water.

Nice job,
UB


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## Cavemurph420 (Apr 27, 2012)

Thanks for the response. She is my 2nd confirmed female out of 5 (2 are definitely male), so I don't want to lose her. Also can you suggest any good organic/soil nutes for flowering? Thanks again for all your help.


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## wyteboi (Apr 28, 2012)

90cody said:


> i under the impression that a DWC system can go weeks without using up nutrients for some reason??
> 
> so that brings up another question, why does the PPM not drop down after weeks of a plant using the nutrients??
> 
> ...


take away from the tiger and add more grow instead. she wants more N. big bloom is for soil , but i guess it wont hurt to use in hydro. (fuck what the bottle says)

i dont know much about the ppm going down after food is gone. (makes sense though, right) i do know that your ph will rise when she eats. start at say 5.5 and watch it rise to 6-6.2 and take it back down with ph down. (it needs to flutuate a lil bit so more nutes are available)

my opinion is she wants 800to 1000 ppm right now. if she starts not likin the more food then get rid of it.... simple. a slight over feeding will not hurt at all.

now as far as your seeds. the one on the far right is staying too wet, thats all. the others appear to want some food, but thats not a big deal like the moisture control. 



soil


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 28, 2012)

Cavemurph420 said:


> Thanks for the response. She is my 2nd confirmed female out of 5 (2 are definitely male), so I don't want to lose her. Also can you suggest any good organic/soil nutes for flowering? Thanks again for all your help.


I am not an organic purist. I also like slow release foods like Osmocote, their 10-10-10. I use a 18-5-9 with micros from start to finish. I blend in the complete encapsulated plant food, plant, water, and leave it alone until harvest. Doesn't answer your concern though. For blooming, I'd recommend the duty 1-3-2 like Jack's Blossom Booster or you can work in a couple of teaspoons of bone meal, in a typical commercial soil blend. I don't know what kind of NPK nutrient charge your mix started with or has now. That needs to be considered too before you start throwing stuff at it. It's a "sum of the parts" thingie. Contrary to popular forum thought and parroted paradigms, growing is NOT about the buds, at least it shouldn't be. Master gardening is about producing and maintaining the most amount of healthy foliage (and roots) until harvest. Think outside of the box on this one. And if you've been following the crap regurgitated in all cannabis growing sites, this concept is gonna be outside of your comfort zone, if you know what I mean. 90% of folks will eventually screw up their plants by the abuse of bloom foods, supplements and such. Keep the foliage green and healthy, that is your focus even if it requires you use a high N food like 30-10-10 during flowering. Don't worry about the buds, they'll be there when they're damn good and ready. 

Again, the plant's branches are droopy which suggests insufficient moisture. When you have such nice thick, healthy foliage, it is next to impossible to over water. As quickly as you water the plant it's wicking off soil moisture via the roots as driven by leaf transpiration, capillary action, internal tissue water turgor (pressure). Such a nice condition provides for a lot of soil aeration automatically. It's just that easy.

FWIW, I've had plants like yours in a 3 gallon pot and they were using water so fast I had to water twice per day. Water until you get good runoff from the drain holes, don't be stingy. If the plants are in saucers (the kind with 2" tall sides) you can use a turkey baster to suck up the tea out of the saucer and then use the tea on indoor plants or your garden outdoors, etc. 

Might wanna flip the switch real soon or you're gonna end up with a tree! That Mazaar looks pure indica and capable of producing huge rock solid colas much like my avatar, IF, you maintain the leaves in their current healthy condition until harvest. Just a thought, there's gonna be A LOT of phytochrome hormonal action with that Mazzar, such that you could probably feed it pure N like blood meal, ammonium nitrate, UAN, etc. and it wouldn't even faze the flowering response.

Good luck,
UB


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## Uncle Ben (Apr 28, 2012)

90cody said:


> i under the impression that a DWC system can go weeks without using up nutrients for some reason?? so that brings up another question, why does the PPM not drop down after weeks of a plant using the nutrients??


Plant isn't using the salts. There's little bulk, plant mass. You feed, gauge the provision of salts based on the activity and size of the plant. It's all about plant requirements. Would you expect your baby brother to need the same amount of food as your 225 lb. Dad? Of course not.


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## wyteboi (May 1, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> It's a "sum of the parts" thingie. Contrary to popular forum thought and parroted paradigms, growing is NOT about the buds, at least it shouldn't be. Master gardening is about producing and maintaining the most amount of healthy foliage (and roots) until harvest.
> 
> Think outside of the box on this one. And if you've been following the crap regurgitated in all cannabis growing sites, this concept is gonna be outside of your comfort zone, if you know what I mean. 90% of folks will eventually screw up their plants by the abuse of bloom foods, supplements and such. Keep the foliage green and healthy, that is your focus even if it requires you use a high N food like 30-10-10 during flowering. Don't worry about the buds, they'll be there when they're damn good and ready.
> 
> ...


UB , as always you have the best info! you KNOW what a plant _needs_. not just what folks think it might _want.
_
i totally agree , advanced growing is about the plant , the foliage and the roots , all the rest will come. The MAIN goal we have is to keep the foliage green and healthy to the end , no matter what food you use to do that. 
The healthier the foliage , the bigger the buds. period.

thanks UB  



soil


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## 90cody (May 2, 2012)

I've brought it up to 820ish ppm and it's still progressing with the same issues... Should I bring it up to 1000 if I don't see improvement in a few days


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## wyteboi (May 2, 2012)

90cody said:


> I've brought it up to 820ish ppm and it's still progressing with the same issues... Should I bring it up to 1000 if I don't see improvement in a few days


as long as you added a bit more "grow" with the bloom food , you'll be alright. it is gonna be very hard to tell if its helping for the first few days. you'll see the difference within a week. the stuff thats already "dried" or dead an crispy is not gonna get better. just watch for the ones that dont have it to get it. 

a healthy plant of that size will eat all that 820 in a day or two. (you should see it with the ph meter going up.)


soil


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## 90cody (May 2, 2012)

Alright this is how it works..

Was at 400ish.. Since u said it needed grow big which is my 3-2-6 so I added about 2 tsp of GB, which automatically brought ph from 5.6 to a 3.8, I dont add ph or down because the ph automatically adjust within 12 hours to normal ph.. I was making the mistake of adding the ph up then after 12 hours it would be to high so once I noticed that I stopped changing until it sat. It is now at 5.6 an plants are still progressing at same rate. I clipped off any leaves that were 60% damaged within 2 days I already have other fan leaves that have progressed from 5-10% damage to now about 70% damage.. Complete browning in center of leaves.. And dry crispy fan leaves curling up.. The purple/red stems is 100% corresponding with this problem.. I know people say that this coloring is genetic but not the case here.. I watch this spread like a disease travels up the stalk and then to fan leaves. U can see the purple/red go all the way to the veins at the center of fan leaf, once that hits is when it starts browning..

I do not have one fan leaf that has gotten bigger then my palm. Once they get that size that shrivel and die...

Starting to feel like I need to stop using fox farm


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## Uncle Ben (May 3, 2012)

Butcher Bob said:


> Hey Ben
> 
> Coulda swore I had sent another long e-mail...with my luck I probly closed the window insteada hittin "send".
> 
> Bin tryin the buckit stuff myself...~Goddess Supreme~ sed you might git a kick outta my struggles...I concurred. So have a look...here...and have a chuckle at my expense. I feel like such a n00b agin.


Yep, I think you did. Just checked my mail and don't have anything recent.


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## Uncle Ben (May 3, 2012)

90cody said:


> View attachment 2142086View attachment 2142081View attachment 2142089View attachment 2142087View attachment 2142088
> 
> also , since you seem to have a good head on your shoulders, may i pass this question to you?
> 
> ...


Why are you using a bloom food at all? Sorry, but from your light situation to your plant's nutritional needs, it suggests you've got everything out of balance. DWC? Another gimmick you shouldn't bother with. I wouldn't grow a dandelion in that manner. If you're doing water culture, you need a complete food like Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro, and stop pushing them with salts. Get a book on indoor plant culture and learn what makes a plant tick.

Also, don't get hung on recommended ppm values. Nobody has your garden nor are their plants in the same state of growth as yours are. Learn to read your plants and not cannabis forums.

Good luck,
UB


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## 90cody (May 3, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Why are you using a bloom food at all? Sorry, but from your light situation to your plant's nutritional needs, it suggests you've got everything out of balance. DWC? Another gimmick you shouldn't bother with. I wouldn't grow a dandelion in that manner. If you're doing water culture, you need a complete food like Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro, and stop pushing them with salts. Get a book on indoor plant culture and learn what makes a plant tick.
> 
> Also, don't get hung on recommended ppm values. Nobody has your garden nor are their plants in the same state of growth as yours are. Learn to read your plants and not cannabis forums.
> 
> ...


Im using hydro on my bigger plant, before starting all this i was stuck on DWC because of the advantages of not having to water and much faster growing and yields, of course i know this can not be achieved if u have constant problems.. 

As far as the nutes im using Fox Farm and the feeding chart calls for Big bloom , on the back of the bottle it says that it can be given to the plant thru out its entire life from seedling to flower, then your GROW BIG is for veg and TIGER BLOOM is flowering.. this is my first indoor grow so i have nothing else to really go off of except my own mind of trying to read my plants which im beginning to do more and more because every reference is so far off it seems and i understand that there are so many variables. 

i do have a question about lighting.. what is wrong with the lighting of these?? they are T5's which are good enuf for veg if i understand correctly..

I Appreciate the continued help and knowledge, i am definitely willing to keep learning more from you.


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## wyteboi (May 4, 2012)

there are no advantages by using dwc. its the same as any other hydro method. 

you gotta be patient first. then you should read a book on plant nutrition. all you need to worry about is the ingredients and the numbers, NOT the "veg" and "bloom" part. your girls need enough N to keep them green till the end and most "bloom" foods just dont have enough so we use "veg" food in flower too. you want as close to balanced as you can get. (1-1-1 plus micros) when you start to see flowers then you might up the P a tiny bit and thats it.


soil


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## 90cody (May 4, 2012)

wyteboi said:


> there are no advantages by using dwc. its the same as any other hydro method.


when i refer to my DWC i was meaning general hydro growth from my understanding grows faster then soil.



wyteboi said:


> *
> you gotta be patient first. then you should read a book on plant nutrition*


any recommendation ?



wyteboi said:


> all you need to worry about is the ingredients and the numbers, NOT the "veg" and "bloom" part. your girls need enough N to keep them green till the end and most "bloom" foods just dont have enough so we use "veg" food in flower too. you want as close to balanced as you can get. (1-1-1 plus micros) when you start to see flowers then you might up the P a tiny bit and thats it


makes sense.. defenitely need a switch of nutes.. So dyna grow as you said previously would probably be better?

my nutes: 

Grow BIG:

3% NITROGEN
2% PHOSPHATE
6% POTASH
2% Calcium
0.5% Magnesium
0.02% Boron
0.05% Copper
0.1% Iron
0.05% Magnese
0.05% Zinc

Big Bloom:
0.01% NITROGEN
0.3% PHOSPHATE
0.7% POTASH

Tiger Bloom:


2% NITROGEN
8% PHOSPHATE
4% POTASH
0.5% Magnesium
0.02% Boron
0.05% Copper
0.12% Iron
0.06% Magnese
0.05% Zinc

and then i have microbrew and kangaroots and cal-mag.. all with same stuff.. so can a plant tell the difference between these different nutes like adding micro nutes to the above combination ?


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## 90cody (May 7, 2012)

have been reading "the best n-p-k" topic and it really opened my eyes to the importance of nitrogen and how these companies are pretty much just selling crap. anyway, 

i have purchased dyna grow Foliage pro and Bloom..

will keep you updated, thanks for all the help UB.


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## Hugo29 (May 7, 2012)

Hello UB,

This is such a quality thread! It's simple and accessible, just the way best things are. 

I think I've had a light or heat issue (I'm outdoors using sunlight by the way). Can you check this pics and see if it fits? Or may it be other thing?



Thank you!


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## phunyfarm (May 9, 2012)

that's what I think I'm looking at right now, over wet may be the answer too - help! I think they are just gonna go in the garden...


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## wyteboi (May 9, 2012)

90cody said:


> have been reading "the best n-p-k" topic and it really opened my eyes to the importance of nitrogen and how these companies are pretty much just selling crap. anyway,
> 
> i have purchased dyna grow Foliage pro and Bloom..
> 
> will keep you updated, thanks for all the help UB.


i like fox farm foods myself. dyna grow just makes things a lot easier for us. you will have more control with dyna. your meters should read right with that stuff too.

i didnt read any one book, when i finally decided that i need more knowledge on nutrition i came here and met UB... read most of this thread... then read about nutrition on google for another year or so. im still learnin , but i got the basics down and it all started with the same shit UB said to begin with. 
a plant dont give a fuck how it gets its food or from where , but it *needs*&#8203; all essential nutes (macro and micro) and if they are all present the plant will thrive period. 

hydro usually does grow a bit quicker, but thats usually just because its easier to give the plant what it needs right now, and these forums confuse the fuck outta folks so people are just putting random shit in their soil to "correct" a prob that doesnt exist. a good dirt man will grow just as quick as a water guy. 

ANY plant food will serve your purpose once you learn how to use them. (you'll get 1000 mj growers tell you that MG is crap because they use urea for N and the fact is they just dont know how to use urea.)


soil


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## 90cody (May 9, 2012)

wyteboi said:


> i like fox farm foods myself. dyna grow just makes things a lot easier for us. you will have more control with dyna. your meters should read right with that stuff too.
> 
> i didnt read any one book, when i finally decided that i need more knowledge on nutrition i came here and met UB... read most of this thread... then read about nutrition on google for another year or so. im still learnin , but i got the basics down and it all started with the same shit UB said to begin with.
> a plant dont give a fuck how it gets its food or from where , but it *needs*&#8203; all essential nutes (macro and micro) and if they are all present the plant will thrive period.
> ...


i appreciate the comments, i think i will continue to keep one or two DWC bucket and rest soil so i can constantly compare and increase my knowledge on both..

with fox farms it makes my water filthy, from what i read, i think its like bat guano from the Big bloom, but whatever is in the big bloom it coats the bottom of the res. and does not stay mixed in, i assume that it is still asorbed into the water none the less, i am one of the people who are not using Fox farm correctly , therefore i am having poor results from it, I know many people do very well with it.. although i dont like that none of their nutes are Nitrogen dominent, even grow big is 3-2-6 (which is the highest N containning nute)

i know if there is anything in the world that depends on so many variables, its marijuana, i realize different things work better or worse for different people, its just dialing in on your own knowledge and work ethic.


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## Uncle Ben (May 9, 2012)

Hugo29 said:


> Hello UB,
> 
> This is such a quality thread! It's simple and accessible, just the way best things are.
> 
> ...


They look good to me.


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## chronicis (May 12, 2012)

First timer here, if you cant already tell by looking at that pic. Crappy camera, my bad.
bagseedlings in fox farm ocean forest cut with 25% miracle grow perlite and a dab of dolomite lime. watering with ph ~6.5 tap water that has sat out for several days. have not added any nutes yet. leaves are yellowing from the tips inward. upper green leaves are droopy but look healthy, lower leaves are yellowing and curling up along the centerline of the leaf. growth has nearly stopped! very frustrating. plants are 36" from 600w metal halide bulb that is air cooled with a 240 cfm 6" exhaust. this keeps temps at 80F for 18 hours of light, and then temps drop to 70F during 6 hours of darkness. thanks in advance. *constructive* critisim is welcomed! thank you!


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## chronicis (May 12, 2012)

humidity is 25 - 40%
another crappy pic if it may help.


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## iNDoorGrowBro (May 13, 2012)

Sorry to see your seedlings in such dire conditions.. I'm a first time grower as well. I don't have any growing experience (except for my current grow. my 10 plants are just about 7 weeks old).

When I started my seedlings, for the first week or so I kept the *humidity above 50%* (usually 55-65%) by keeping a plastic dome-like cover over them. From time to time, I would spray the inside of the dome with water or you could also spray their trays to keep the humidity level up.

How big/tall are the "pots" are you using? They kinda like a bird's nest (no offense) I've just never seen anything like it. (I'm sure drainage is not an issue =)
What type of Miracle Grow did you use? On the label, did you notice if it had "time release nutes"? What was the N/P/K ratio (nitrogen/phosphorus/potassium)
*REMEMBER, I am a first timer also!* But _IF_ I were in your shoes, I would try raising the light to 40" or 44" just in case. And I'd keep a close eye on them. (But I doubt it's a light issue. Light being 36" sounds reasonable)

My guess is it's something in the soil mix/ some type of nutrient issues. But I'm sure someone with more growing experience will shed some light on your situation.. just hang in there, and keep checking back. Search the forums too, lots of great info on lights, soils, deficiencies, etc... best wishes on your grow


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## chronicis (May 13, 2012)

Thanks for the response. My pots are about 3" tall and they are made of coconut fiber (i think). I randomly grabbed them at the hydro store when I bought my soil. Also, the miracle grow is just plain perlite, with a fractional NPK value of .04:.01:.06, so not much nutes in there. It does not say anything about time release. I was hoping that the FFOF soil would feed them for now. indoorgrowbro do you grow in soil? What is the make up/brand/ratio of your mix? 3 of 8 of my plants are now pretty much dead, no considerable growth for the last 2 weeks.  first time isn't going so well for me.


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## iNDoorGrowBro (May 14, 2012)

I germinated 10 bag seeds in wet paper towel (between 2-3 days) Then planted into soil, Fox Farm Ocean Forest with a little extra per-lite mixed in. In the seedling stage I didn't water my plants too often, BUT I did make sure to keep the environment above 50% humidity (mostly around 55-65%) Temps were kept around 75-85ºF. They've been getting 18 hours LIGHT / 6 hours DARK since day one. I've been giving them tap water. For my setup/environment, I found that the best time to water my plants was about 5 - 10 mins before LIGHTS OFF, this way the soil didn't dry up as quick. The entire pot is able to saturate really well. No additional nutes/ferts have been given to them, just tap water and the soil.

At about 3 weeks old, I transplanted all 10 plants from little 4"x4"x6" containers into 3 gallon pots. At about 6 weeks old (about 1 week ago), I transplanted 4 of the biggest/strongest looking plants into 5 gallon containers... I wanted to make sure they had enough time to re-coop/adapt to their new pots before I switched their light cycle, which will be very soon...

Don't worry, take it as a learning experience and make sure you apply what you learned on your next grow ___


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## chronicis (May 14, 2012)

Interesting. Do you remember how tall they were at 3 weeks old? My 8 are now pretty forgone, I don't think there is much hope for them. My next option is to purchase some clones from the local dispensaries. I guess I will have to go that route for now. I am disappointed, but it was just bagseed, so it could be much worse. Nice to hear that you use FFOF with perlite too. When did you start giving them nutes, if any?

Sounds like your grow is going good. What kind of lamp are you using for veg?


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## iNDoorGrowBro (May 14, 2012)

It's kinda hard to say exactly how tall they were, because when I transplanted them into 3 gallon containers, I buried part of the their stems for more support. I've been using CFLs since day one. And the only food my plants have had is whatever was in the Fox Farms (no extra liquid nutes have been added). These are also from bagseed that a friend gave me. =)


This is a pic at 3 weeks old. After the transplant and with their stems buried some, they varied in height from 3inches - 5inches tall


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## chronicis (May 14, 2012)

Excellent pics. They look healthy alright. Here are mine at 3 weeks. Definitely stunted growth. I have moved them back to the floros because the leaves are firm and soil went dry very quickly. I think 600w was too much. Do you think they can recover? It probably isn't even worth it now, since they will be stunted and yield will suffer... F$%*.


I JUST watered them with straight H2O, so ya, the soil looks wet. But they needed it, soil was dry and pots were light.


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## iNDoorGrowBro (May 14, 2012)

This is one of my seedlings at 2 weeks old... about 4 or 5 days before this pic was taken, it looked a lot worse. The seedling was bent over to the side, and those bottom leaves that are curved were in terrible condition. There was no new growth showing on top and I thought for sure it would be the first one to die on me. Eventually, the bottom leaves that were curved fell off and all new growth was looking a lot better..





At 7 weeks old now, this plant is probably doing better than my others. Don't lose all faith just yet.. between all the horror stories I've read on these forums, and all the videos I've come across I have realized one thing; Cannabis is a very resilient plant.. A lot of growers pin point there problem/issue, take action and their plants bounce back; with time. Just be patient and keep searching these forums for other growers who are sharing the same problems you are. And I'm sure a much more experienced grower will show up and provide you with more info than I can...

I also recommend keeping a personal journal with every single detail you possibly can.. very, very important to keep everything recorded, that way you can go back and check what worked for you, and what didn't.. take daily pics of your plants with temps/humidity level/etc, water ph, light distance, etc... Best wishes, bro!


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## iNDoorGrowBro (May 15, 2012)

REMEMBER: I'm a first timer as well, but let's figure this out together. Learning experience for both of us...



chronicis said:


> ...bagseedlings in fox farm ocean forest cut with 25% miracle grow perlite and a dab of dolomite lime...


Well, since we both started in the same soil and my plants didn't show those signs, I'd rule that out... And the perlite you used had very small N/P/K values, so probably not that..I've seen dolomite mentioned in some of the threads and from what I remember it helps keep the soil ph balanced, so that's a good thing (though I'm not sure how much is recommended, or if one can overdo it)



chronicis said:


> ...upper green leaves are droopy but look healthy...


From what I've experienced with my plants, if the stem is pointing up or straight out from the main stalk with leaf kinda droopy (but still looking healthy green), it's usually a sign of over-watering... And when the entire leaf and stem just seem completely lifeless (looking like it's just ran a marathon and is about to fall over) then it's a sign of under-watering.



chronicis said:


> ...growth has nearly stopped! very frustrating. plants are 36" from 600w metal halide bulb that is air cooled with a 240 cfm 6" exhaust. this keeps temps at 80F for 18 hours of light, and then temps drop to 70F during 6 hours of darkness...


One of my plants stop showing growth at about 2½ weeks old. I transplanted at 3 weeks into 3 gallon containers. When I removed my seedling, sure enough it's roots were already hitting the bottom and had completely wrapped around inside the container. Perhaps you roots are looking for more area under the surface to create a secure anchor for it's main stem/stalk.

Did the guy at the store recommend those for growing your seedlings in? I'd just be worried myself that the roots might get tangled in it (it may not even be an issue at all though)



chronicis said:


> ..Definitely stunted growth. I have moved them back to the floros because the leaves are firm and soil went dry very quickly. I think 600w was too much. Do you think they can recover? It probably isn't even worth it now, since they will be stunted and yield will suffer... F$%*.
> 
> View attachment 2167665View attachment 2167664View attachment 2167663View attachment 2167662


Going back to floros, I'd say good move.. Who knows, they may show improvement after a few days. After about 2 weeks of healthy growth, stick'em back under that MH. hang in there, keep us updated.


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## Uncle Ben (May 15, 2012)

iNDoorGrowBro said:


> Sorry to see your seedlings in such dire conditions.. I'm a first time grower as well. I don't have any growing experience (except for my current grow. my 10 plants are just about 7 weeks old).
> 
> When I started my seedlings, for the first week or so I kept the *humidity above 50%* (usually 55-65%) by keeping a plastic dome-like cover over them. From time to time, I would spray the inside of the dome with water or you could also spray their trays to keep the humidity level up.
> 
> ...


Just some thoughts and observations.

1. You guys need to learn what makes a plant tick. Which means if this your first time at growing indoor plants, it will show as such. 

2. Do not use a paper towel to germinate. Germinate directly in soil using pots that are at least 6" tall.

3. Give them plenty of water. Incorporating organics like blood meal and bone meal is good.

4. Don't worry about pH and RH. Cannabis is pH tolerant regarding elemental uptake and RH is irrelevant if you have a decent root system.

5. It's all in the balance. If you understand that balance, this is the results you should expect. Note the lighting, temps, etc. - https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html By week 3, my plants required watering twice a day, and when I water, I drench until there is a lot of free runoff.

6. Cannabis forums are the worst places to lurk if you truly want to learn how to garden. Apply your papa's tomato techniques and you'll be fine. Apply cannabis forum techniques and you will surely screw the whole thing up. 

Good luck,
Uncle Ben


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## chronicis (May 15, 2012)

Uncle Ben,
Thanks for your input. Not much help though, all philosophical and such. How did you learn what makes a plant tick? My father never grew tomatoes, so that doesn't mean anything to me. Cannabis is the first plant I have ever tried to grow.

Thanks indoorgrowbro, having someone to talk it through helps me to rule out some variables. I will take some new pics soon, but they seem to be improving under the floros. Fingers crossed!


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## Uncle Ben (May 15, 2012)

chronicis said:


> Uncle Ben,
> Thanks for your input. Not much help though, all philosophical and such.


May the Great Floro God be with you.


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## chronicis (May 15, 2012)

Sorry, unc, didnt mean to offend you. I'm just trying to learn.
I think my plants were transpiring too much water from the leaves for the small seedling roots to replenish. Light was too intense with high heat and low humidity, no solid root system has established yet so they dont have any means to replace the water they are losing through the leaves. They are responding well to the floros, temps have dropped, and I think they just might recover.


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## Uncle Ben (May 16, 2012)

chronicis said:


> Sorry, unc, didnt mean to offend you. I'm just trying to learn.
> I think my plants were transpiring too much water from the leaves for the small seedling roots to replenish. Light was too intense with high heat and low humidity, no solid root system has established yet so they dont have any means to replace the water they are losing through the leaves. They are responding well to the floros, temps have dropped, and I think they just might recover.


You're not offending me, it's not my plants at stake.....just showing me that you're not willing to listen. Not gonna belabor the issues. For your shortcut to success buy Mel Frank's "MJ Insiders Growers Guide" from Redeye Press.

You didn't look at my link. Look at the growth from week one to week two. I start seedlings under full sun or HID, as soon as they pop the soil's surface. As long as you practice stupid forum practices such as germinating seeds in a paper towel, you will fail. Your plants are stunted and will never have the vigor of plants that grow normally. "Shit can" them is my advice, and try again, AFTER, reading a book or two on basic plant culture, which includes proper plant nutrition. It helps to have gardened with a knowledgeable gardener, like your grandpappy growing ivy, apple trees, a veggie garden. If I had to guess you failed because you used a paper towel to germinate, your plants didn't have constant moisture nor proper nutrition.

Temps should be 85/70F, day/night, as a good average. Light about 6,000 f.c. for 20/4. Well aerated soil but constantly damp. NEVER allow your soil to dry out. 

Also, shit can the coco pots. Are you growing orchids or ferns? Don't tell me, the dude at the hydro store said those pots were the shit, eh.

Observe the equipment and techniques that commercial nurserymen, farmers, horticulturalists use. Stay away from cannabis forum techniques, in general. 90% of the stuff around here is just plain stupid based on ignorance and/or a lack of experience. You have a choice - choose the forum blind leading the blind, or conventional horticulture.....the latter being honed for a century. Conventional gardening techniques were used in this garden. Reason why it worked so well --> https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html

UB


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## Trichrome Troy (May 16, 2012)

I bought a bubba kush plant and a pineapple chunk from my bro who was using foxfarm to fert with but I'm poor so I use Shultz but both plants are not doing as well as the plants I started. I think I'm having a fert prob but can't tell if it's deficient or abundant.. So I've began alternating from fert water to regular water. The PC seems to be stunted and the BK is drooping. Any advise???


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## chronicis (May 16, 2012)

Its all good Ben. I am definitely willing to listen. Thank you for the advice. I am nose deep in several gardening books.

And no, the guy at the hydro store did not specifically recommend these pots, I simply grabbed them off the shelf because they were the first cheap ones I saw, thinking that I would transplant out of them soon enough. But that wasn't even my first mistake, ha.

I've read the spin out thread, and agree with the concept. I don't give a shit what goes into my body at this point, everything causes cancer these days.

Thanks again.


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## Uncle Ben (May 16, 2012)

chronicis said:


> Its all good Ben. I am definitely willing to listen. Thank you for the advice. I am nose deep in several gardening books.
> 
> And no, the guy at the hydro store did not specifically recommend these pots, I simply grabbed them off the shelf because they were the first cheap ones I saw, thinking that I would transplant out of them soon enough. But that wasn't even my first mistake, ha.
> 
> ...


What makes you think anything is going anywhere regarding the Spin-out product? There you go again, not dealing with facts.


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## chronicis (May 16, 2012)

Not sure what you mean. It sounds like the spin out paint is awesome... I am willing to give it a try, if I can find it.


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## Trichrome Troy (May 17, 2012)

Uncle Ben any help on my previous post? Update my bubba kush is no longer drooping. But it is cupping n some leaves r getting dry n brittle. So I believe it's over-fert. As far as the pineapple chunk it's not making any growth progress. My Pc clones r doing good n my GDP n light of jah are doing great.


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## Uncle Ben (May 17, 2012)

Trichrome Troy said:


> Uncle Ben any help on my previous post? Update my bubba kush is no longer drooping. But it is cupping n some leaves r getting dry n brittle. So I believe it's over-fert. As far as the pineapple chunk it's not making any growth progress. My Pc clones r doing good n my GDP n light of jah are doing great.


No clue. Sorry.


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## tabasito (May 22, 2012)

U.B.,i followed most of your advises (no paper towel,2-4 main collas),my plants are about 5 weeks old(1 week outside),started inside under sfls in gold label light mix(already had it,short of funds to by new shit),there are some nuts in it+micros,however,no nute burn(thk god),i have some problems with my plants sinse planting outside(2 days really heavy raining,forecast didn't mention it),however,this is normal in this part of the world(east europe).then 2 days heavy sun,so lower leafs are a bit burn,but today seems that they catch up(seen a little new grow,sorry,no pic.,but it is a guer.grow,don't know how safe to post a pic.,in this country even a pic.is enough to get arrested and have many-many troubles).looks like the soil is not very good,i def.need nutes,my question is:i allready have some canna tera nutes,it says N-P-K ratio is 3-1-4(+micros),its a 10 liter,expensive shit, so should i use it(may be+something,the money have been spent months ago),or dump it and buy something else?(allready found someth.local with approp.N-P-K,according to your advises(love the pic.of your plants+2 or 4 main collas working great so far,done that 1 week before transpl.outside).3-1-4is pretty close to your advises,but still not the same,so i had to ask,it's too wet now(the durt),but seems that next week i have to water(it's going to be very hot next couple of weeks,30+deg. C,and my girls(purple widow by the way,sat.-ind.hibr.)are getting full sun all day long.(i am sat.fan too,could not find pure sat.with good gen.this year reccom. for outside).+i nave 37 of them(3 never spr.),hopefully all 36 are girls(i found 1 male(99%sure),it's planted in another plase,need some seeds in case it's good gen.)also,is it normal to pref.in 5 week?or i nave been mistaken?


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## Uncle Ben (May 23, 2012)

tabasito said:


> U.B.,i followed most of your advises (no paper towel,2-4 main collas),my plants are about 5 weeks old(1 week outside),started inside under sfls in gold label light mix(already had it,short of funds to by new shit),there are some nuts in it+micros,however,no nute burn(thk god),i have some problems with my plants sinse planting outside(2 days really heavy raining,forecast didn't mention it),however,this is normal in this part of the world(east europe).then 2 days heavy sun,so lower leafs are a bit burn,but today seems that they catch up(seen a little new grow,sorry,no pic.,but it is a guer.grow,don't know how safe to post a pic.,in this country even a pic.is enough to get arrested and have many-many troubles).looks like the soil is not very good,i def.need nutes,my question is:i allready have some canna tera nutes,it says N-P-K ratio is 3-1-4(+micros),its a 10 liter,expensive shit, so should i use it(may be+something,the money have been spent months ago),or dump it and buy something else?(allready found someth.local with approp.N-P-K,according to your advises(love the pic.of your plants+2 or 4 main collas working great so far,done that 1 week before transpl.outside).3-1-4is pretty close to your advises,but still not the same,so i had to ask,it's too wet now(the durt),but seems that next week i have to water(it's going to be very hot next couple of weeks,30+deg. C,and my girls(purple widow by the way,sat.-ind.hibr.)are getting full sun all day long.(i am sat.fan too,could not find pure sat.with good gen.this year reccom. for outside).+i nave 37 of them(3 never spr.),hopefully all 36 are girls(i found 1 male(99%sure),it's planted in another plase,need some seeds in case it's good gen.)also,is it normal to pref.in 5 week?or i nave been mistaken?


What is the question?

Welcome to the world of gardening. You ought to try farming. Mother nature will kick your ass no matter what you do or how much you plan for the unforseen.


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## tabasito (May 24, 2012)

*the question is:is it o.k. to use this fert.(3-1-4),or to dump it and buy new one(in case that canna shit is going to do more harm than help)sorry,i don't know much about fertilisers,cannot make the diferense,buying canna terra i thought i am buying the best for my ladys*.later read sooo many thinks and i am allready not sure.they are going good so far,i don't wanna harm or lose them.thanks for the greetings and the fast response


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## wyteboi (May 25, 2012)

tabasito said:


> *the question is:is it o.k. to use this fert.(3-1-4),or to dump it and buy new one(in case that canna shit is going to do more harm than help)sorry,i don't know much about fertilisers,cannot make the diferense,buying canna terra i thought i am buying the best for my ladys*.later read sooo many thinks and i am allready not sure.they are going good so far,i don't wanna harm or lose them.thanks for the greetings and the fast response


I'll say it before UB does: Read a book on what makes any plant work .... or skip right to the nutrition part. ( i wouldnt advise skipping anything though)
ANY food is fine to use , but i would have to write a whole book to explain how to use different foods, so i'll leave that up to you.

the answer to your question is canna shit is fine. way too expensive but the food is fine. 



soil


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## tabasito (May 25, 2012)

T*I'll say it before UB does: Read a book on what makes any plant work .... or skip right to the nutrition part. ( i wouldnt advise skipping anything though)
ANY food is fine to use , but i would have to write a whole book to explain how to use different foods, so i'll leave that up to you.

the answer to your question is canna shit is fine. way too expensive but the food is fine. 
*Thank you,i read sooo many things allready,(way so many,a got confused from that much information in a such a short period),so i decided to ask to make sure.the problem is,that i bought it BEFORE to discover this site(which is great by the way),and in my country there is a lack of information on canabis(close to none),and the only availiable suggested to buy something like that(canna,gh,an).I KNEW that it way to expens.(appr.100$,here it is like 500 in USA),i knew that there are many"regular"ferts.,that will do the same,but at the time i had no sourse of information which one to use,and i had to travel appr.100 miles to get this shit,along with potting soil,which has no bugs in it to start the seedlings(i live in city,but we have only soil,that probably is mixed with local natural-well,"city"here is anything over 50 000 population).so lately the fog,that mj is something"spesial"and"diff"from another plants is gone,i am starting to open my eyes slowly,i allways read and study before to do something,just need a source,and the best way is to ask someone experienced .i have a few gardens under my belt,but it was 14 years ago(the last one),at the time almost no one knew what this plant is(and we have hemp everywhere,no one was paying attention),i was using comp.chiken/bird manure+(don't know eng.words),but how every teen and so many others know how mj looks like(damn internet and tv news),so i had to go guerilla,no way to carry soil and shit to that plase,so liquid nutes were my only way out.that's how i ended with that canna shit.anyway,lesson learned,and thank you again for the response&advise+rep+its a good news(not all the money is wasted,just part of it(well-the major part),and the best is-i still have a food for the babys(hopefulli they will love it)


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## Butcher Bob (Jun 3, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Yep, I think you did. Just checked my mail and don't have anything recent.


Figgers...lost, like my enthusiasm it contained. 

But, things change...you got mail with updates...I checked & made sure it "sent" this time.


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## Riseup420 (Jun 7, 2012)

Quick question. not too far into growing, plant has 3 sets of leaves. barely any nubs are just coming in around the first set of leaves. BUT... The plant is very limp. Weak, cant hold itself up. I've taken care of it with root helper and amino aid (Supercharger) The roots were a brownish color, but the plant is still very green and not leathery or crispy (Dried up) at all. Just limp. Does this mean i should water it more? I don't add puddles of water like I thought I would've. First time grower, and I'm not even sure how much water to give them. What i've been doing is just spritzing the visible layer of soil with a small mist. Just enough to dampen the very top layer. Maybe someone could help me get a schedule of when to water or how much to give them? I really only have a water bottle for watering as of now and that little spray bottle. Very little, kinda like one of those Warhead sour spray bottles. Very small. Anyone able to give me some insight?


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 8, 2012)

Riseup420 said:


> Quick question. not too far into growing, plant has 3 sets of leaves. barely any nubs are just coming in around the first set of leaves. BUT... The plant is very limp. Weak, cant hold itself up. I've taken care of it with root helper and amino aid (Supercharger) The roots were a brownish color, but the plant is still very green and not leathery or crispy (Dried up) at all. Just limp. Does this mean i should water it more? I don't add puddles of water like I thought I would've. First time grower, and I'm not even sure how much water to give them. What i've been doing is just spritzing the visible layer of soil with a small mist. Just enough to dampen the very top layer. Maybe someone could help me get a schedule of when to water or how much to give them? I really only have a water bottle for watering as of now and that little spray bottle. Very little, kinda like one of those Warhead sour spray bottles. Very small. Anyone able to give me some insight?


Get a few books on plant culture.

Bob, got you covered.


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## RambunctiousRadish (Jun 8, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Very few.
> 
> Not as good as it could be. Leaves are the lifeblood of your production. Lose them, lose potential production. It's just simple botany folks. Don't make this growing thing some mystical and romantical thingie requiring you to suck up to every new rocket fuel offering from a hydro store. Cannabis is a weed, grow it like a tomato for Christ's sakes.
> 
> ...


Thank you for reminding folks there is no magic potion to a successful grow. It is a weed for fucks sake! No nutrient product can make up for bad genes and a bad environment. Luckily we are all masters of our universes here! When I was getting started I went out and bought all sorts of useless shit. Never, not even one cycle did I notice a difference from introducing the latest product. So I just started using common sense. Now that's my program, common sense, scientific deductioning. It is the best thing you can give to your grow! I am super stoked there are people on here with similar attitudes towards all this cool kid industry crap! Kudos to you and all the "grow geniuses" out there that simply use trial and error!
And thanks again for mentioning the razor root ball technique. I don't know when or why I stopped doing it, but thank you so much for bringing it up!!!! You are an excellent educator, good to see you love what you do!


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## RambunctiousRadish (Jun 8, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Just some thoughts and observations.
> 
> 1. You guys need to learn what makes a plant tick. Which means if this your first time at growing indoor plants, it will show as such.
> 
> ...


I crack my seeds in shallow tap water. It takes about 48 hours or less for them to pop and then I transplant them them into their medium. The thing that weirds me out is with any other plant I would use the standard technique you mentioned. I think you just inspired me to stop being a weirdo and crack my next batch the same way I would do with any seed! Thanks.

Happy Crackilackin,
Radish


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## RambunctiousRadish (Jun 8, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Yep, never stress a plant due to a lack of moisture, plus it ruins the soil structure. When plants lack moisture, it stunts them as carbo production is compromised.


Amen! A LOT of people are telling growers that causing stress by not watering explodes growth. I know one thing-a sad shrunken, brown dead root ball is not going to produce more flowers!


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 9, 2012)

If folks would observe _normal_ plant culture, done by _normal_ (typical) gardeners, they might get some where. I've never witnessed so many ways to fuck up a simple flowering foliage plant like I have in these forums. Good example: "A LOT of people are telling growers that causing stress by not watering explodes growth." They don't know what in the hell they're doing. It's the blind leading the blind.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jun 9, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> If folks would observe _normal_ plant culture, done by _normal_ (typical) gardeners, they might get some where. I've never so many ways to fuck up a simple flowering foliage plant like I have in these forums. Good example: "A LOT of people are telling growers that causing stress by not watering explodes growth." They don't know what in the hell they're doing. It's the blind leading the blind.


What i have found out is that there definetly is improvement in growth when you let your pots dry out sufficiently enough in soil. I use some 7 gal pots and i go about 4-5 days between waterings. That seems to be their sweet spot.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jun 9, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Just some thoughts and observations.
> 
> 1. You guys need to learn what makes a plant tick. Which means if this your first time at growing indoor plants, it will show as such.
> 
> ...


Hey, what would you recommend for the amount of blood and bone meal to put in the soil for seedlings?


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> Hey, what would you recommend for the amount of blood and bone meal to put in the soil for seedlings?


Oh......about 2 Tblsp. each in 10 gallons of soil. Watch blood meal. For an organic it is pretty quick acting and can be 'hot'.

Everything about gardening is finding the right balance. A plant will grow fastest with a consistent supply of moisture at its roots, and nutrients. That's pure science. 

The cannabis forum paradigm of wet/dry cycles you read about is hearsay, it's wrong, and parroted by folks that don't know what they're doing....who often have been burned (by their own hand) because they kept their soil too wet which induced a decaying root system. So, they become gun shy and warn folks to let their pots dry out between watering. Fine, just stunt the plant and create soil structure problems. 

It's all relative to the amount of wicking action of the foliage. If you go 4-5 days between waterings, then you have cultural issues, too large a pot for the limited bulk of your roots and foliage. Indoors I used to water 5 gallon pots TWICE a day with at least one quart of water each time from 4 weeks veg on.

Uncle Ben


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jun 10, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Oh......about 2 Tblsp. each in 10 gallons of soil. Watch blood meal. For an organic it is pretty quick acting and can be 'hot'.
> 
> Everything about gardening is finding the right balance. A plant will grow fastest with a consistent supply of moisture at its roots, and nutrients. That's pure science.
> 
> ...



Wow are you joking me???? I have cultural issues. Yea my ballsack has cultural issues. I get at least 20 oz per 1000 watt light and my lbs go for no less than $3700 each. That does not happen for no reason my friend. I let my pots dry out untill they get kinda light. Many experts recommend to do it that way. However they are always variables with diffrent strains.
Continue to do it your way. It seems like a lot of pointless back breaking effort but hey whatever works for you. I like the convenience and luscious growth i get by waterig every 4-5 days in 7 gal pots.. However i have taken note to what your saying and now im thinking that an automatic drip/water system might be a pretty good idea. Also some days i might consider watering every 2-3 days instead of 4. also i appreciate the help with the other stuff.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jun 13, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> Wow are you joking me???? I have cultural issues. Yea my ballsack has cultural issues. I get at least 20 oz per 1000 watt light and my lbs go for no less than $3700 each. That does not happen for no reason my friend. I let my pots dry out untill they get kinda light. Many experts recommend to do it that way. However they are always variables with diffrent strains.
> Continue to do it your way. It seems like a lot of pointless back breaking effort but hey whatever works for you. I like the convenience and luscious growth i get by waterig every 4-5 days in 7 gal pots.. However i have taken note to what your saying and now im thinking that an automatic drip/water system might be a pretty good idea. Also some days i might consider watering every 2-3 days instead of 4. also i appreciate the help with the other stuff.


I think i spoke too quick.. Im a noob to 7 gal pots. I usually use 3 gal. Uncle Ben your right, 4-5 days is too long. im thinking 2-3 days is about right....


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## graab187 (Jun 13, 2012)

my leaves are cupping as well but im not over watering?? they are curling down like claws. i let the pots dry out like 3 days and they were bone dry so i HAD to water them. but the cupping has not changed. HELP


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## medicalmary (Jun 14, 2012)

graab187 said:


> my leaves are cupping as well but im not over watering?? they are curling down like claws. i let the pots dry out like 3 days and they were bone dry so i HAD to water them. but the cupping has not changed. HELP


This is a water issue. This is an underwatering issue. You have excess salt buildup in your media, so even when you water, it takes days for you plants to take up water because of the salt build up. During Flower do not let your pots run dry or your yield will suffer. You might also be over fertilizing.

mm


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## medicalmary (Jun 14, 2012)

Haven't been on these forums for 2 years and I like to see UB answering the same old watering questions...


same as it ever was
same as it ever was...

mm


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## GuerillaGrowers (Jun 22, 2012)

ditto! Im doing the same thing, I spent like way too much money buying so many different systems, I got everything from ebb & flow , buckets, pro mix..LOL too many to fit under my light at once.. all in a rush to learn how to grow, so i can get my Tora Bora seeds going, and stop paying others for my medicine! Good luck!


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## Dunwoody12 (Jun 22, 2012)

Good evening, my young plants are drooping and one has some burn at the tips. This is my first grow. My guess is that I'm overwatering and had some burn from ph being off? Only one plant is burned while the others are a little yellow. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.


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## tabasito (Jun 24, 2012)

well,i am not that experienced,but looks like nute burn+overwatering as well.there are others,who know better,but if these were my plants,i would cut the nutes for a while and reduce the watering (and feeding when they recover from the nute burn).in my opinion there are too many complications with hydro,especially for first time grower.one small mistake-plants are ruined.if your first grow fails for some reason,try soil next time,and once you get better and learn more,go for hydro.+in soil you do not have to worry for the ph too much.


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## Lcplchainsaw (Jun 24, 2012)

Need help becuz I'm just starting out and one of my seedling look weird one is turning a little purple and curling up its like 1 1.5 inches tall what's wrong


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## Reelfish2 (Jun 27, 2012)

Hey UB, I have an issue that i will attempt to describe. Plants is 4'tall, is flowering for 3 weeks now. B/C we were expecting an entire week of no sun i decided to get a few lights, (2)2700K and bring it inside( 4days) and continue my 12/12. I included a fan and the temp was a nice cool inside 78ish A/C temp.( i live in Fl, it's end of june) Then the sun came back out and so I her buddy outside again and to my horror she wilted almost instantly. Also I had just started the molasses watering a week earlier with great results. I took the plant over to his garage and parked it for the night. In the Am she was perfect once again and back to normal. A few hrs later she was all drooped over and wilted once again. A lot of yellow leaves and now the leaves are super limp and cupping/rolling inwards. The soil is moist but not wet and was wondering if tomorrow she is again doing great, in the AM, do I need to finish the process inside or let her adjust to the hot temps over the next few days. I have no special tools..just my eye and a green thumb. I have 2 others that i just left outside during the same time frame and they are just fine with the same watering schedule & molasses mix( 1TBSP/Gal). Thanks if your still around to answer.

RF


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 27, 2012)

Reelfish2 said:


> Hey UB, I have an issue that i will attempt to describe. Plants is 4'tall, is flowering for 3 weeks now. B/C we were expecting an entire week of no sun i decided to get a few lights, (2)2700K and bring it inside( 4days) and continue my 12/12. I included a fan and the temp was a nice cool inside 78ish A/C temp.( i live in Fl, it's end of june) Then the sun came back out and so I her buddy outside again and to my horror she wilted almost instantly. Also I had just started the molasses watering a week earlier with great results. I took the plant over to his garage and parked it for the night. In the Am she was perfect once again and back to normal. A few hrs later she was all drooped over and wilted once again. A lot of yellow leaves and now the leaves are super limp and cupping/rolling inwards. The soil is moist but not wet and was wondering if tomorrow she is again doing great, in the AM, do I need to finish the process inside or let her adjust to the hot temps over the next few days. I have no special tools..just my eye and a green thumb. I have 2 others that i just left outside during the same time frame and they are just fine with the same watering schedule & molasses mix( 1TBSP/Gal). Thanks if your still around to answer.
> 
> RF


Sounds like the root system is shot. Only one way to find out - pop it out of its pot and take a look.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jun 28, 2012)

im still in 7 gal pots, i water every other day now. its 30 days into flower. I am scared to water everyday like uncle ben suggests because i dont like root rot or anerobic bacteria. Right now i have Buds Larger than my forearm!


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## egyption (Jun 29, 2012)

waz up rollitup this is my first post here and i have a problem my seedlings are turning light green or yellowish they are 6 days from sprout and i think they are stunned i have 2 20watt lights on it 24/0 and its an auto ak47 .


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## mrwzrd (Jul 2, 2012)

what you need i actually 18/6...


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## SOG (Jul 27, 2012)

hello Uncle Ben, respects for sharing your knowledge and maintaining this thread
now im not new to growing, but i have an issue i could really use an experts advice with
i have 5 girls 4 in 7Gal pots and one in 25Gal pot (recently moved) 
growing under the sun, they get sun through out the day (full exposure) with no light competition 
i water the pots twice a day with about 2Gal per pot each time, this seems to keep the girls hydrated throughout the day 
two of my girls already developed heavy bud production while the other are still lagging behind 
im using GH flora and been feeding them twice a week; a slightly modified Lucas 12m 18b their entire life cycle 
the plants always seem to have yellowing at the lower leaf region to the point that im losing all fan leaves as time progress
its ok in late flowering, but not though transition and veg period, 
what am i doing wrong?


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 27, 2012)

Most likely the NPK ratio is out of whack with N too low and K too high. What NPK values are they "seeing"?


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## SOG (Jul 27, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> What NPK values are they "seeing"?


Thanks Uncle Ben, they're seeing roughly 1.5/1/2
i give them 12m(hw) 18b comes out to -

[email protected]
1174[email protected]
838EC/mS
1.68EC/uS
1677

(not counting tap residues)

NPK broken down to rough ppm as follows 
N-150, P-120, K-210, MG-80


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## L33tGanjaMan (Jul 27, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Thanks man! Really happy to be here! The abundance of master gardeners and the good will of the general membership is refreshing.
> 
> Still learning after all these years,
> Uncle Ben



Aw man, i just lost a Top Cola of one of my biggest best Sweet Melon plants, it was the same size as in your picture and i am pretty depressed.. 

It was so sFat and Dense that i needed to upgrade my airflow, but i did not realise this at the time because mostly i have grown Topped plants in the past and this Sweet Melon was a Beast.. i actually nicknamed it 'The Hulk' as it was displaying Massive Strength and Vigour ( i have 4 diff phenotypes of this S.M.) now into the 9th week flowering the top Cola looked brown and dry on some of the flowers! I had to decapitate her and lost the middle part of over 12 inch cola..
Like you said dood, we need to learn as we g(r)o and Read our plants.
This was my biggest Fattest Plant in 5 years of growing but i still have other fat Airy Bigger Budding phenotypes and also different strains i am growing.
So although it is a Big Dissapointment.. i have learned from it and also i have learned a lot from reading your thread, i thank you for your input.. i hope one day again to grow Big Fat Colas.. heh 

Peace


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## ChroniKz (Jul 27, 2012)

Great work Uncle Ben, We all appreciate the help.


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 27, 2012)

SOG said:


> Thanks Uncle Ben, they're seeing roughly 1.5/1/2
> i give them 12m(hw) 18b comes out to -
> 
> [email protected]
> ...


That's what I thought. 

You'll find a common theme in my posts regarding NPK values, and that is, most foods do not support foliage during flowering due to the all pervasive industry standard of cramming high K while scrimping on N. It's foliage that produces bud, not some GH Flora. In spite of the well grown plants with nice colas you've shown, you've compromised potential production due to the loss of foliage. Let me put to you in another gardeners realm. I grow commercially, and one of my crops is wine grapes. It takes about 15 healthy leaves to support/finish a cluster of grapes. Now.....if for whatever reason I lose foliage, I drop the grapes. If I don't, the grapes will never ripen and the chemistry will be off. Same applies to cannabis. If you don't have really nice, GREEN foliage come harvest, you'll compromise potential bud production. So.........how many green, healthy fan leaves is required to support an ounce of bud for the typical sativa/indica mutt?

It's all in the balance.......


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## SOG (Jul 27, 2012)

*im well aware of he potential loss, trying to mitigate this
N-150 ppm
P-120 ppm
K-210 ppm
MG-80 ppm 
(12m/18b per gallon) still not enough N?
what ratio should i be aiming for to correct this?*


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 28, 2012)

SOG said:


> *im well aware of he potential loss, trying to mitigate this
> N-150 ppm
> P-120 ppm
> K-210 ppm
> ...


30-10-10 aka 3-1-1 or a 5-1-1.....something along those values.


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## SOG (Jul 28, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> 30-10-10 aka 3-1-1 or a 5-1-1.....something along those values.


Thank you Uncle Ben
is this for transition or throughout flowering?
you happen to know the GH baseline for that ratio?


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## kinetic (Jul 28, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> 30-10-10 aka 3-1-1 or a 5-1-1.....something along those values.


Continued with a 10-30-20 once in flower I presume?


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 28, 2012)

SOG said:


> Thank you Uncle Ben
> is this for transition or throughout flowering?
> you happen to know the GH baseline for that ratio?


The industry has sucked you into the bloom foods hype.....as you continue to lose the very plant unit that produces bud. You have a choice, support the leaves with increased N foods or continue to compromise leaf health by using bloom foods that induce micros and N deficiencies. I use a slow release 18-5-9 from start to finish. 

Nine times outta ten, if it's popular amongst the cannabis crowd, it sucks big time.

Can't help you on the GH foods. Don't use them. You can always add high N goodies like blood meal, fish emulsion, UAN, ammonium sulfate. You are growing in soil, right? 

Good luck,
Uncle Ben


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jul 28, 2012)

kinetic said:


> Continued with a 10-30-20 once in flower I presume?


And why would you want to do that?


----------



## kinetic (Jul 28, 2012)

*

And why would you want to do that?​




*I would deduce that the 3-1-1 would continue to feed the foliage while I added something like peters blossom booster 10-30-20 for budding. Am I incorrect in this thought process? I'm close to getting away from my organics to go with peters....


----------



## SOG (Jul 29, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> You are growing in soil, right?
> 
> Good luck,
> Uncle Ben



yep its a perlite and peat moss mix, i will look into further supplementing N 
Thanks again for your help Uncle Ben; much appreciated!


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jul 29, 2012)

kinetic said:


> *
> 
> And why would you want to do that?​
> 
> ...


You don't need a humanly produced, marketed, hyped "bloom booster" to get maximum production. You need a food that will support and maintain the most amount of healthy foliage until harvest. Bud production is driven by phytocrhome, hormonal responses, not more P in somebody's product that is selling you on your own dreams. Now, if you 'feel' you can do what I've prescribed, then use your blossom booster. Obviously it eventually gets everyone in trouble as reflected in SOG's post which is one in about 20 ongoing complaints. Folks just don't get it. Having said that, Peter's Bloom 10-30-20 has a lot going for it regarding the N source blend, more Fe and Mg. High P foods tend to lock out micros, the last thing you want happening as the impending chlorotic trend is usually impossible to reverse. 

I'll stick to a 18-5-9 myself. It has plenty of K and P to support plant health, which drives production.

UB


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jul 29, 2012)

SOG said:


> yep its a perlite and peat moss mix, i will look into further supplementing N
> Thanks again for your help Uncle Ben; much appreciated!


I'd look into Dyna-Gro if I were you.


----------



## kinetic (Jul 29, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> I'll stick to a 18-5-9 myself. It has plenty of K and P to support plant health, which drives production.
> 
> UB


Turf fertilizer?


----------



## SOG (Jul 29, 2012)

Thank you uncle Ben, that's the Hi-N-Pro 10-5-5 your hinting there, correct?

i'm guessing you're happy camper with Osmocote as a base for the run, what do you supplement with?


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 29, 2012)

Polygon.

Osmocote is fine. No supplements.


----------



## kinetic (Jul 30, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Polygon.
> 
> Osmocote is fine. No supplements.


Being an organic guy I have the normal worries about chems. do you flush Uncle Ben? I know it's debated but I have tendency to listen to your senior wisdom...


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jul 30, 2012)

kinetic said:


> Being an organic guy I have the normal worries about chems. do you flush Uncle Ben? I know it's debated but I have tendency to listen to your senior wisdom...


I don't flush. Organics are made up of inorganic minerals.


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## kinetic (Jul 30, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> I don't flush. Organics are made up of inorganic minerals.



Am I wrong then in thinking you have a very proper cure procedure then?

Edit: I did notice my free 'organic' nutes I received include info on where to find the metallic content of the bottles....


----------



## missmaryj10 (Jul 31, 2012)

Hello Uncle Ben,
I'm a newbie, I was hoping you could take a look at my pics and help me figure out what's going on with a few of them.  
This is an auto strain 
These ladies are doing really well and they were before the nutrients were put in at the beginning of last week. 
They are 29 days old, from seeds. I only fed them R/O water for the first three weeks and I introduced a half a dose of nutrients last Tuesday. They are all doing much better since then, however I see some are deficient I'm just not sure in what area...


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jul 31, 2012)

kinetic said:


> Am I wrong then in thinking you have a very proper cure procedure then?
> 
> Edit: I did notice my free 'organic' nutes I received include info on where to find the metallic content of the bottles....


Curing - dry the son-a-bitch and smoke it.


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## kinetic (Jul 31, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Curing - dry the son-a-bitch and smoke it.


It occurs as we speak


I'm getting better,the High Life can is for illustrative purposes only, support your local brewery.


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## SOG (Aug 2, 2012)

i can tweak my GH line recipe to 3-1-2 with 22M+18B


N290.6P119.5K230.2Mg82.2


[email protected]2248[email protected]1605EC/mS3.21EC/uS3211

its DTW and they are big girls,
i think they can take the high EC
whats your thoughts?


----------



## Uncle Ben (Aug 2, 2012)

SOG said:


> its DTW and they are big girls,
> i think they can take the high EC
> whats your thoughts?


Do not have a clue. Experience is the best teacher.


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## caligrowe47 (Aug 3, 2012)

so can you help me out here? i watered my plant and went away. Before it was 100% healthy and green, then i came back six days later and turned into yellowish on the leaves and brown spots too. i then gave it flowering nutes. My soil is 5.5 ph level, growing in northern california by the coast. it was overcast 2 days and cloudy the last 6 days now its been cloudy. is it moisture stress or anything like that? root rot signs? btw i sprayed safe soap on it because there were bugs and i went back today and it looked better kinda. i then took the branches and i am bending them (LST) and i clipped off a lot of fan leaves and the yellowing leaves. so anyways i would like your advice on what to do and what the diagnosis is?


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## SOG (Aug 3, 2012)

first, this looks like Phosphorus deficiency
second, look up close; something is munching your leaves!


----------



## caligrowe47 (Aug 3, 2012)

yes if you read my post i said i had bugs and that i am using safe soap. btw i have heard Magnesium, Nitrogen a lot, and now a Phopherous deficiency?! thats a lot of maybe's.. can anyone officially know almost for certain?


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## SOG (Aug 3, 2012)

it is very difficult to detriment definitely since we dont know exactly what went down in what order
her lower leaves do signal some sort of N deficiency; this could also happen due to flowering transition with low N reservoirs!
the browning leaves and patches resemble P deficiency, then again we dont have the whole picture
how much was she feed, what regiment, what was she feed, hard or soft water, did you pH before watering etc...


----------



## Wordz (Aug 3, 2012)

SOG said:


> hello Uncle Ben, respects for sharing your knowledge and maintaining this thread
> now im not new to growing, but i have an issue i could really use an experts advice with
> i have 5 girls 4 in 7Gal pots and one in 25Gal pot (recently moved)
> growing under the sun, they get sun through out the day (full exposure) with no light competition
> ...


I think what you have going on is absolutely gorgeous. that looks like paradise to me.


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## caligrowe47 (Aug 3, 2012)

1 tablespoon of 10-60-10 flowering nutes in a plastic gallon milk jug. i feed the plant nutes 1 every two times watering. so i water every 3-5 days a gallon of water. After 2 times watering, the third time i water with the flowering nutes. that clear anything up for you?


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## SOG (Aug 3, 2012)

Wordz said:


> I think what you have going on is absolutely gorgeous. that looks like paradise too me.


TYS
more pics here

enjoy 



caligrowe47 said:


> that clear anything up for you?


your 10-60-10 sounds like trouble to me
When you have too much Potassium in your soil, it can lead to big troubles, like salt damage and acid fixation of the root system, as well as too much potassium can cause a calcium deficiency. Your fan leaves will show like a light to a dark yellow to whitish color in between the veins. Due to a molecular imbalance, potassium toxicity can cause a reduced uptake and lead to the deficiencies of Mg, and in some cases, Ca. Also leads to the other nutrients to not be absorbed properly leading to lots of other deficiency such as: magnesium, manganese, zinc and iron and can cause problems with calcium as well.


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## caligrowe47 (Aug 3, 2012)

ok so what kind of flowering formula should i buy to use on my plant? where do i buy it?


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## SOG (Aug 3, 2012)

Google Lucas formula to start off with


----------



## caligrowe47 (Aug 3, 2012)

i have used this flowering nutes plenty of times before with no effects noticable and no issues like this. are you sure its the nutes?


----------



## hockey4848 (Aug 4, 2012)

in veg under a 1k MH, about 16 inches from the plant (maybe too close??)

Just transplanted her 6 days a go into a 5gal, she is not looking so good...drooping down...etc.

any thoughts?


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## SOG (Aug 5, 2012)

this is a common issue when moving to a larger pot
she can only use her soil volume at this point; she is not yet spread out to the new soil volume
she is almost suspended in "mid air" in the new pot volume; water run to the bottom not up!
so she cant feed herself the way she used to in the old pot where she covered every corner
give her lots of water until she start catching up, flushing will help if she was pot bound


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 5, 2012)

caligrowe47 said:


> 1 tablespoon of 10-60-10 flowering nutes in a plastic gallon milk jug. i feed the plant nutes 1 every two times watering. so i water every 3-5 days a gallon of water. After 2 times watering, the third time i water with the flowering nutes. that clear anything up for you?


DO NOT give cannabis high P foods, especially at that high rate. You have induced a micro and N deficiency. I give my outdoor faves a slow release 18-5-9 with micros and they look beautiful. All I do is water and they are beginning to flower heavily, all except for the O. Haze.

I addressed this pervasive problem - https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/158144-never-ending-abuse-phosphorous-bloom.html


----------



## Uncle Ben (Aug 5, 2012)

hockey4848 said:


> in veg under a 1k MH, about 16 inches from the plant (maybe too close??)
> 
> Just transplanted her 6 days a go into a 5gal, she is not looking so good...drooping down...etc.
> 
> any thoughts?


Chlorotic, yellowing leaves.....see my previous post.


----------



## hockey4848 (Aug 5, 2012)

Im not using a high P nute. Just H & G soil A/B in veg....


----------



## Uncle Ben (Aug 5, 2012)

hockey4848 said:


> Im not using a high P nute. Just H & G soil A/B in veg....


OK, so what do you figure the NPK and micro make up is? Chlorosis is always caused by micro deficiencies. Yellowing leaves is either caused by a poor root system which is incapable of proper salts uptake or a lack of N.


----------



## caligrowe47 (Aug 5, 2012)

so whats a good flowering fert i can buy at a Home Depot or Ace Hardware?


----------



## DrGreenThumbs6.0 (Aug 25, 2012)

Kellogs patio plus works pretty good


----------



## Uncle Ben (Aug 26, 2012)

caligrowe47 said:


> so whats a good flowering fert i can buy at a Home Depot or Ace Hardware?


Discussion:
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/437414-cal-mag-soil-ro-distilled.html


----------



## dazza1980 (Sep 8, 2012)

I can t make out if this is nitrogen dif or an overwater problem!! Please help me so i can help my girls.

http://s1157.photobucket.com/albums/p584/dazzza1980/?action=view%A4t=e544530a.jpg&evt=user_media_share


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## greeno63 (Sep 11, 2012)

Hi all ok so we are new at this our plants are from seeds middle of aug till now, the leaves have started to get yellow spots on them but not like what we have seen on here we think it is from nute and maybe the light being to low just wanted to see if anyone could tell us maybe,

we did a complete flush and plan on doing it again on sunday we have stopped giving any nutes in case we have burnt them were not sure when to start feeding them i am gonna show some pics


----------



## greeno63 (Sep 11, 2012)

Hi all ok so we are new at this our plants are from seeds middle of aug till now, the leaves have started to get yellow spots on them but not like what we have seen on here we think it is from nute and maybe the light being to low just wanted to see if anyone could tell us maybe,

we did a complete flush and plan on doing it again on sunday we have stopped giving any nutes in case we have burnt them were not sure when to start feeding them i am gonna show some pics View attachment 2330956


----------



## Uncle Ben (Sep 12, 2012)

People, when you suspect something then you need to relay your day to day activities and that means NPK values, amounts.....I don't work off product labels nor am I a mind reader. I only relate to elemental values of foods you might have applied. There are many issues that can induce leaf necrosis (yellow leaf spots is a symptom of what's to come) - fungus and insect pressures, too much salts....for example.

Good luck,
UB


----------



## greeno63 (Sep 13, 2012)

ok so the food we were giving was flora duo part A & B 3tsp to 1tsp stronger growth blend, since they started with the yellow spots we stopped feeding nutes we did a complete flush 3 days ago and are doing it again tonight . we also raised the lights(1000w) and the temp now seems to stay around 79-82 i have 2 fans in the room and two on the outside bringing in fresh air. we are not sure when to start budding or what age to do that at they are 6 - 7 weeks old could really use some in put please


----------



## Uncle Ben (Sep 14, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> People, when you suspect something then you need to relay your day to day activities *and that means NPK values, amounts.....I don't work off product labels *nor am I a mind reader. I only relate to elemental values of foods you might have applied.


~ Uncle Ben ~


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## greeno63 (Sep 14, 2012)

Well we lost one of our plants due to havi g balls lol
sacs a sad moment but so far the other are showing no signs
we were told that around 6-8 weeks they would start show if they were males (sure enough)one of the plants 
are pretty tall but the little one is still short and bushy 
can anyone please suggest when we should bud we know one is sativa and other is indica but it is short and really really bushiy


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## DrOfWelshMagic (Sep 16, 2012)

a great thread with plenty of in depth explanation, great effort and thanks for sharing it!!!!


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## monzo (Sep 19, 2012)

wrong thread


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## madmalky (Sep 20, 2012)

Hi All, can someone confirm what the problem is here? i have just started feeding with a high N fertilizer as the leaves seemed quite light green. have i overdone it? is this classic nute burn? any advice appreciated.


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## Warriorbuds (Sep 20, 2012)

madmalky said:


> Hi All, can someone confirm what the problem is here? i have just started feeding with a high N fertilizer as the leaves seemed quite light green. have i overdone it? is this classic nute burn? any advice appreciated.


Hmmmmmmmm......what a coincidence! Lol


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## dazza1980 (Sep 21, 2012)

How it going folks??
So I'm hoping someone could
Maybe help me out with some guidance.
I started my autos outside back in July an sinse had to bring them in as the weather has been really wet and has also started to get cold. The problem I have is my pots are drenched, due to the rain and have no chance to really dry and that's now slowed growth down as my roots ate to wet. I understand that I need to let the pots dry and become light to lift before watering again but they are in real need of feeding as the one I think is showing signs of N difitiantsy as its yellowing.
What am I to do? My plants need food but the soil needs to dry or they will for sure die.


----------



## overgrowem (Sep 26, 2012)

Any hints,suggestions,etc on how to balance the effects of root binding and the need to grow small plants in small pots?


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## mackey (Sep 28, 2012)

This is Translove, 9 weeks in flower, organic grow. These were taken 2 weeks ago. Now in 11th week. Beautiful buds but leaves like this all over plant. Should be ready in 3 more weeks but not that many crystals yet. PH was 7 last week. Use my well water which is ph 6. 

Anyone know what is causing this as it has got much worse in last 2 weeks? Thanks for any help.


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## jimigreen (Oct 10, 2012)

plus its a good idea to autopsy your root system after harvest. you can learn a lot from your success, and failed attempts by the abundance or lack of rooting.


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## Gummieburr (Oct 13, 2012)

I like to use fox farm ocean forest soil its the best I have used yet. If your on a budget use Dr q's filthy rich soil.


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## achaser87 (Oct 17, 2012)

great thread helped alot


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## dwillhauck2229 (Oct 31, 2012)

canadiancracker said:


> can you help check these out
> 
> thanks in advance,
> 
> ...


You can have TOO MUCH LIGHT?!?!?!
I was under the impression that the more light the better. Is this right or wrong?


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 1, 2012)

dwillhauck2229 said:


> You can have TOO MUCH LIGHT?!?!?!
> I was under the impression that the more light the better. Is this right or wrong?


It's wrong as I've explained many times beginning with post #1.

READ


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## grenade91 (Nov 2, 2012)

this is because i had the light to close right? its a one week old clone and i only use water that i let sit for a couple days and its under 3 23 watt CFLs. i took out of my dome for ~24 hours but i just put it back under


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## happypap (Nov 4, 2012)

my ph is 7.8 should i bring that down if so whats a ph to be at and a good method to get it there i am haveing what appears to be a nitrgen probView attachment 2399232View attachment 2399234


----------



## flipflip2 (Nov 7, 2012)

Hey U.Ben appreciate all the help you give folks on this site ive read a lot of your posts and have learned a lot from them. I do have a question for you. My plants are in 3rd week flower and are turning a little yellow on the bigger leaves in the middle and top of plant, only where the light shines though and its not from the lights being too close. Also the top leaves feel a little crispy and dry and are curling a little bit...I figured it would have been an over nute problem but im pretty sure it isnt .... what else could cause the crispy feel?? any help is appreciated from anyone..thanks


----------



## Uncle Ben (Nov 8, 2012)

flipflip2 said:


> Hey U.Ben appreciate all the help you give folks on this site ive read a lot of your posts and have learned a lot from them. I do have a question for you. My plants are in 3rd week flower and are turning a little yellow on the bigger leaves in the middle and top of plant, only where the light shines though and its not from the lights being too close. Also the top leaves feel a little crispy and dry and are curling a little bit...I figured it would have been an over nute problem but im pretty sure it isnt .... what else could cause the crispy feel?? any help is appreciated from anyone..thanks


Crispy feel is from salts that remain after moisture is removed. Yellow leaves? What's the NPK values of the foods they've been getting?


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Nov 10, 2012)

Sup Uncle Ben, what you this is wrong with my girls? 7 days into flowers. ph around 6.0. ppm 650-700. using supernatural aqua bloom. flood and drain with rock wool. fan leafs are yellowing. maybe light beach? about 18 inch above and air cool. N or P?? This is killing me. Please help!

View attachment 2405755View attachment 2405760


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 11, 2012)

Chopsticks33 said:


> Sup Uncle Ben, what you this is wrong with my girls? 7 days into flowers. ph around 6.0. ppm 650-700. using supernatural aqua bloom. flood and drain with rock wool. fan leafs are yellowing. maybe light beach? about 18 inch above and air cool. N or P?? This is killing me. Please help!
> 
> View attachment 2405753View attachment 2405755View attachment 2405756View attachment 2405759View attachment 2405760


You guys need to read my threads. I have explained a million times why and how bloom foods induces leaf drop. AGAIN, the N value is too low.


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Nov 11, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> You guys need to read my threads. I have explained a million times why and how bloom foods induces leaf drop. AGAIN, the N value is too low.


I thought it was N. I did read couple of the pages but the thread r too long too read all. what is the best way to apply more N to my nutes? I thought supernatural has alot of N.


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Nov 11, 2012)

I should feed them supernatural aqua grow for the first two week of budding? I notice its yellowing from the top down. is that still N def? There are couple yellow spotted leaves from the bottom. I quickly read thru this thread but i need help asap. just flushed it last night and going to remix the nutes. You mention 1-3-2 are the best for bloom. Should i use the GH three color and mix 1 N 3 M and 2 B? What should my ppm be? they 8 days into bloom and 15-20 inch tall. 
?


----------



## Uncle Ben (Nov 12, 2012)

Top down is N deficiency. 1-3-2 is best ratio for bloom unless it induces premature leaf necrosis, which is what you're experiencing. A wise gardener will give his plants what they require.


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Nov 12, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Top down is N deficiency. 1-3-2 is best ratio for bloom unless it induces premature leaf necrosis, which is what you're experiencing. A wise gardener will give his plants what they require.


uncle ben, thanks for your info. I am kinda new to this. actually i been doing for almost 6 month now and never had finish result. i ALWAYS run into this problem. I had change from H&G aqua a&b, dutch master gold, etc..... finally im decided to go with GH three color. how can i mix 1-3-2 (10-30-20) with GH 3 color? or what nutes should i use? Im would really hope i can learn some good info from da wise gardener. Should i go with Lucas Formula?


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Nov 12, 2012)

OMG! This has happen over night! Yellowing by the hours! what should i do? foliar spray? some one here please advise and let me know what i can use to get more N to my notes. Im currently have two different brand of nutes. Supernatural natural aqua bloom, supernatural super boost. Also have general hydroponic three color. I been following their instruction but i only mix 1/2 of what they say. its only 12 days into flowering. Sucks to see these sexy girls go down! Thanks for ya views


----------



## MajorGoodVibes (Nov 12, 2012)

These are three auto-flowering Snowryder that are about a month old. 
They're in soil. Nothing special, John Innes #2 from B&Q. 
Lighting is a 400w HPS and a few CFLs that I have (200w 6000K, 120w 2700K) that I'm using for side lighting and figured couldn't hurt. They're on a 19/5 light cycle. 
I've never given them nutrients. 
The temperature is usually between 60-80F/15-25C.

I've been watering them a little bit most days. Been using the "lift the pot method" for seeing if they need water. Oh and like me, the plants just get tap water.

Yesterday I saw some of the bottom leaves on all three getting yellow and decided I was over-watering. Now today the yellowing appears worse.

On a slightly separate note, one of the plants has a yellow spot at the top of its growth that looks troubling.


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Nov 12, 2012)

OMG! This has happen over night! Yellowing by the hours! what should i do? foliar spray? some one here please advise and let me know what i can use to get more N to my notes. Im currently have two different brand of nutes. Supernatural natural aqua bloom, supernatural super boost. Also have general hydroponic three color. I been following their instruction but i only mix 1/2 of what they say. its only 12 days into flowering. Sucks to see these sexy girls go down! Thanks for ya views
View attachment 2407515View attachment 2407518View attachment 2407519


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## Chopsticks33 (Nov 12, 2012)

No help? anyone wise gardener out there have a solution?


----------



## Uncle Ben (Nov 12, 2012)

Chopsticks33 said:


> OMG! This has happen over night! Yellowing by the hours! what should i do? foliar spray? some one here please advise and let me know what i can use to get more N to my notes. Im currently have two different brand of nutes. Supernatural natural aqua bloom, supernatural super boost. Also have general hydroponic three color. I been following their instruction but i only mix 1/2 of what they say. its only 12 days into flowering. Sucks to see these sexy girls go down! Thanks for ya views
> View attachment 2407515View attachment 2407518View attachment 2407519


Until you get a handle on plant nutrition, I can not help. I told you what they need, more N while you continue to give them products that don't supply enough N. Cannabis specific nutes suck because they use the wrong NPK ratios for plant health. Likewise, the Lucas formula sucks.


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Nov 13, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Until you get a handle on plant nutrition, I can not help. I told you what they need, more N while you continue to give them products that don't supply enough N. Cannabis specific nutes suck because they use the wrong NPK ratios for plant health. Likewise, the Lucas formula sucks.


What kinda nutes do you recommend? Should i use supernatural aqua bloom with sensi cal mg? I have that available but afraid to try. how can i a ratio of 1-3-2 with general hydro?


----------



## MajorGoodVibes (Nov 13, 2012)

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk but would I have better luck getting feedback on my question if I made a post of my own rather than commenting here? I'm not sure how the community feels about cross-posting.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Nov 13, 2012)

Chopsticks33 said:


> What kinda nutes do you recommend? Should i use supernatural aqua bloom with sensi cal mg? I have that available but afraid to try. how can i a ratio of 1-3-2 with general hydro?


What "nutes" have a high N profile, like a 33-0-0 or a 30-10-10? That's what you need to use to correct the excessive K and low N found in most if not all cannabis specific rocket fuels.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Nov 13, 2012)

MajorGoodVibes said:


> These are three auto-flowering Snowryder that are about a month old.
> They're in soil. Nothing special, John Innes #2 from B&Q.
> Lighting is a 400w HPS and a few CFLs that I have (200w 6000K, 120w 2700K) that I'm using for side lighting and figured couldn't hurt. They're on a 19/5 light cycle.
> I've never given them nutrients.
> ...


Looks stunted. Plants have to have 16 essential elements. If you have abundant foliage and roots (which you don't) you don't need to worry about overwatering if using a good general potting soil.


----------



## Systema (Nov 13, 2012)

Hey uncle Ben! 

i think i have a little problem down here ... 2 of my plant have been stressed or something and the two other have some brownish spot on their leaves..
i didnt change anything in their growing tent for around a month so i dont think that could be the reason ...

I live in canada so it is possible that the temperature go down a bit in the night while there is no light but i dont think that is the problem.. But , it could be..

If you have any idea what it could be with the picture just tell me ... i am using 40% coco and 60% soil and i didnt feed any of them with any nutrients yet .. my water is okay ( well i changed nothing and it was okay for a month and a half so i guess it's still alright .. ) I am using CFL .. 2x25w , 5 x 100w , 

Here are the picture.

 those are 2 fem unknow strain 



 those are 2 Auto's about a month old 



Thanks for any good info or suggestions.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Nov 13, 2012)

Systema said:


> Hey uncle Ben!
> 
> i think i have a little problem down here ... 2 of my plant have been stressed or something and the two other have some brownish spot on their leaves..
> i didnt change anything in their growing tent for around a month so i dont think that could be the reason ...
> ...


Suggest a good book on indoor plant culture.


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Nov 13, 2012)

u aint really helping uncle ben. when to hydro store and dont see any nutes with 33-0-0 or even 10-0-0. You want to share some of your secrets nutes?


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Nov 13, 2012)

Systema said:


> Hey uncle Ben!
> 
> i think i have a little problem down here ... 2 of my plant have been stressed or something and the two other have some brownish spot on their leaves..
> i didnt change anything in their growing tent for around a month so i dont think that could be the reason ...
> ...



Look like mine also. N or cal mg def. I have the same problem and still looking for solution.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Nov 13, 2012)

Chopsticks33 said:


> u aint really helping uncle ben. when to hydro store and dont see any nutes with 33-0-0 or even 10-0-0. You want to share some of your secrets nutes?


Maybe if you learned some plant botany you'd get somewhere. You won't learn it in some hydro store or cannabis forum. 

Find UAN from a feed store.

The crap you bought from a hydro store got you into this mess, you and the sales guys need to get you out.


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## Chopsticks33 (Nov 14, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Maybe if you learned some plant botany you'd get somewhere. You won't learn it in some hydro store or cannabis forum.
> 
> Find UAN from a feed store.
> 
> The crap you bought from a hydro store got you into this mess, you and the sales guys need to get you out.


what r the point of this thread? no help at all. this thread should be close! Thanks for your help uncle benny


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## mrbotanical (Nov 14, 2012)

Chopsticks33 said:


> what r the point of this thread? no help at all. this thread should be close! Thanks for your help uncle benny


What?! It is far from a waste of time: what uncle Ben suggests is correct, learn some basic plant botany before getting angry that a veteran grower hasn't got the time or patience to be answering questions that have been done to death. Keep it up unc.


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## Justin5737 (Nov 14, 2012)

Could you check out my journal and let me know whatsup with my jilly bean plant in my latest post?
View attachment 2410188


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## MajorGoodVibes (Nov 14, 2012)

mrbotanical said:


> What?! It is far from a waste of time: what uncle Ben suggests is correct, learn some basic plant botany before getting angry that a veteran grower hasn't got the time or patience to be answering questions that have been done to death. Keep it up unc.


I understand not wanting to answer the same basic questions over and over again but if that is the case then he could always stop responding. I'm not saying that his contributions to the forum are unhelpful but perhaps the time of this being a sticky is over.


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## Chopsticks33 (Nov 14, 2012)

Justin5737 said:


> Could you check out my journal and let me know whatsup with my jilly bean plant in my latest post?
> View attachment 2410188


Over water maybe? I'm not an expert on this but just tryin to help.


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## mrbotanical (Nov 15, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Maybe if you learned some plant botany you'd get somewhere. You won't learn it in some hydro store or cannabis forum.
> 
> Find UAN from a feed store.
> 
> The crap you bought from a hydro store got you into this mess, you and the sales guys need to get you out.


You guys really need to listen to what Uncle Ben says, this is a voice of experience talking, a beacon of sense in a sea of ignorance. What he speaks about is correct about the over zealous use of "hocus pocus" nutrients that costs an arm & a leg and are then used to cause serious problems by overdosing the plant on one or more nutrients, (see UB's descriptions on antagonistic effect) creating deficiencies that would have probably never arose had the grower paid more attention to what the plant was actually telling them. It seems people are obsessed with over-priced witches brews like they are the cornerstone of every successful grow; they are not.


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## Dank You, More Please (Nov 15, 2012)

Great guide, I've been having some problems like this and I think that I need to work on my roots on the problem plants, the plants with weaker roots are the plants with the problems... thank you! Picked up some hygrozyme today for my DWC, hoping that helps!


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## mrbotanical (Nov 17, 2012)

Systema said:


> Hey uncle Ben!
> 
> i think i have a little problem down here ... 2 of my plant have been stressed or something and the two other have some brownish spot on their leaves..
> i didnt change anything in their growing tent for around a month so i dont think that could be the reason ...
> ...


Low night-time/lights off temps can cause a drooping of the leaves, I've suffered this myself. Bottom two seedlings look starved, but I don't know how that could be possible as the grow medium should have plenty of nutrients to take the plant through the first few weeks of veg. growth, and sometimes beyond, before needing a top-up of nutrients. Also, I notice you are not using vermiculite/perlite; these are invaluable (I'd say essential) for aeration & water/nutrient retention & help greatly with the formation of healthy, strong root systems, whilst also ensuring the soil/medium does not get too compacted. The grow mediums also look very dry, water thoroughly until you get run off to ensure adequate wetting of the medium all the way through, and try not to let it dry out between waters as this can cause more problems with salt build up in the medium. Something else worth noting is, as coco contains no nutrients & retains little if any, a big enough percentage in the mix might have made a substrate with very little nutrient worth. You say you haven't fed any of them yet, not even the larger plants in veg. growth?; that could be one of your problems right there. Water often & thoroughly, feed when she needs...


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## mugwump (Nov 22, 2012)

I think this site is awesome . I am new and have enoyed reading and learning. my girls have talon hooks at the tip on some of the fan leaves . just half way through second week flower. I was told to low humidity. at night its about 50 -52 % but day goes down to thirty ... any suggestions or should i get a humidifier .. just learning the site dont know how to post my own question or put a pic on yet so hopefully somebody reads this lol


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## iwanabahordaculturalist (Nov 23, 2012)

Wats up... now I. Have a mother growing under 400mh till I get my cfl.s but n e way the plant looks great green growing stems very purple stems to leave and some parts main stem but n e way I fed wit 5 1 1 . 1tbsp per gal bout 2 day ago an my leave are green but they aree curling down and some feeling kinda dry wut do I do heat and humid is not liable seeing as they are between 40 and 60 humid all time and 85 max degree mostly 78 to 82 help b4 my only mother I have dies


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 23, 2012)

If you have a decent root system even a RH of 20% won't induce water stress.


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## krunkcity80 (Nov 23, 2012)

Can u tell me why my plants fan leaves are getting so long & droppie at the branch that they are breaking away from the stem ?? My plant is 1 month and 4 days old at foot and a half tall just put into flowering 4 days ago indica.


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## bigpotsmoker (Dec 2, 2012)

I have a question for you uncle Ben. My cuttings(clones) was dark green looked healthy, I had them under 100 watt strip light for 24 hours for 2 weeks. Then changed to my bigger light 600 watt few days later some of the plants look brighter green not yellow though. Do you reckon i have got the light to close? Or something to do with the nutrients. hope you can help cheers.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 2, 2012)

bigpotsmoker said:


> I have a question for you uncle Ben. My cuttings(clones) was dark green looked healthy, I had them under 100 watt strip light for 24 hours for 2 weeks. Then changed to my bigger light 600 watt few days later some of the plants look brighter green not yellow though. Do you reckon i have got the light to close? Or something to do with the nutrients. hope you can help cheers.


How's the root system?


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## bigpotsmoker (Dec 7, 2012)

the roots are sweet i am using that canna rhizotonic to be honest i think there ok now because there drinking but now they don't look like there growing what height you reckon i should switch them to 12/12 ?


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## ogreb (Dec 9, 2012)

Genetics ?

My Blueberry x Northern Lights almost always droops a little after watering...not curling or anything extreme just a little droopy. Almost like heat droop.
Even if allowed to dry out to the point of leaf drooping....add water they immediately perk back up, but a couple of hours later will look a little droopy again.
Next day they are standing out arrow straight again. And continue to do so until next watering.

I did poke some holes in the soil and the bucket as it seems there is heavy pocket at the very bottom of the pot.

PH 6.5
RH 45 %
12 / 12
CO2 500 to 600 PPM.
Temps 72 ( night) to 82 f ( day )


Plant is not suffering in any way...growing like crazy right now ( have to move the lights up 2x a week now ) 2 weeks into flower. It's booming baby !

Happened last grow as well....end product was amazing ! ( Same strain )

I'm thinking the roots have not reached the bottom of the pot yet so no water from there is being used yet. Transplanted into bigger pots two weeks before flowering.

Think I'll go drill some more holes in the bottom of the pot.

Like I said..next day everything is normal.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 9, 2012)

If the roots haven't reached the bottom of the pot within a week, something's wrong. Could mean root rot induced by over watering, soil borne diseases.


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## ogreb (Dec 10, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> If the roots haven't reached the bottom of the pot within a week, something's wrong. Could mean root rot induced by over watering, soil borne diseases.


Nah...that wasn't it.
Cut hole in pot it and it did have roots to the bottom ...roots all white and normal looking, Their were just none at the bottom drainage holes yet

And it was a big pot...2 gallon to 5 gallon tall boy.

Today it looks amazing again...! Watered yesterday.

Definitely never over watered. I never make that mistake anymore.

EDIT

Talked to the guy I got the clones from and he said it was normal for the way I water them.

I don't overwater but when I do water it's on baby !

Instead of using a gallon of nutes to water I'll use 3 gallons of nutes and get a semi flush in there.
Anyway I guess there is different levels of watering a plant.
No other problems and like usual, today they are arrow straight and happy.



I'm not going to sweat it anymore.

Last plant did the same thing and the end result was Blueberry heaven !


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## Lbchsdigity (Dec 10, 2012)

After Reading this thread I might be attributing to my own problems haha. Thought i was seeing signs of Pest problems. Seeing a little curling and now starting to see more and more leaf margin burn (about one water leaf per plant) I have been looking at leafs under my scopes and i do not see anything. only have a 30x though. Here are some pics of some of what im seeing that i have not seen before. 

Any Suggestions or comments are GREATLY!! appreciated!


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## onebadSandman (Dec 10, 2012)

Haven't been round lately, but my symptoms are similar to-Lbchsdigity-on my latest grow,and wondered 'can Someone tell me how to post pict from iPhone?'
Need sum help with spotting on new transplant. Thinking its too hot of soil?, but my Smartpot is not draining where the super soil is layered and now considering a fungal side affect.
Flushed 5gal. pot /5gal. H20(noticed the draining issue) so I proceeded to loosen the soil in the Smartpot by dropping her..F*#k(accident).
So I now have three questions:
Rust spots, how to attach picts. from iPhone and..how stressful is it to a plant to have its newly established already stressed root system rearranged,Torn? Disrupted.ect.


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## Cannacaster Deluxe (Dec 11, 2012)

Titan4jah said:


> so doc, say i want to trim a root bound plant like a 4 month old mother, i can just pop her out a cut the bottom 1/4 inch off her root ball, as well as take some off the sides with a razor? and this will keep her in check with out damage?


I think he means it will unbind the root ball. You still need to Go a size up in pots (and more soil) so the newly cut roots will have somewhere to explore and expand, and find new sources of food. The plants will get bigger though. I didn't read anything in the post about taking some off the sides, just cutting slits straight down the sides, but I'll bet you could do it without adverse effects.


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## donkeykongintheclutch (Dec 12, 2012)

OK Unc, I'm thankful for the post, but I would really like to get your personal opinion on this one. This is my 2nd grow via forced veg. I have two main symptoms: 

1) New growth occurring on my bud (like it was forced into veg state). This I found due to some buttons on my light timer were inadvertently pressed down and the light was coming back on for a couple hours late in the night. I know this is was definitely not good, but back on 12/12 now. I estimate the light problem spanned about 4-5 days. My question here is - have I ruined my plant, or is there a chance to recover.

2) There are some spots on my plant leaves and I want to assume it's too much nutes, but I'd like a more experienced opinion on it. I am watering with water only right now as of 2 days ago. Please take a look @ the pics and tell me what you guys think.

I have some good quality seeds on deck, but I want to gain more experience with my John Doe bud first versus fuckn up a really gud thang...

I thought I was en route to a good growth spurt with the buds, but then well, u see 'em.
The 1st 3 pics are from last week. 
The middle 3 are the spots followed by 2 of the new growth. 
I did also add another CFL (to make a total of 3 23-watt 2700K 3" away from leaves) about 3 weeks ago. 
It's a stealth grow 4' tall X 2' X 2'. Using white faced - hard board (like dry erase-board material) for the walls, in/ out computer fans. I water every 3 days (plan on only using pure water from now on through harvest).


View attachment 2440127View attachment 2440128View attachment 2440129View attachment 2440130View attachment 2440131View attachment 2440132View attachment 2440134View attachment 2440136View attachment 2440137


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## Csufan97 (Dec 17, 2012)

Hey man just started growing and I really appreciate this thread I am sure I would have been or may still be one of the groans but at least I know what to watch out for thanks!


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## Xub420 (Jan 17, 2013)

THx UB for the great info here.. one day looking great... anbd next day curling and pale...dammit!


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 17, 2013)

unsubbed......


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## dankbuds987 (Jan 17, 2013)

does anybody know anything about fogponics think i am starting to have a root root problem


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## Aliengod (Jan 31, 2013)

ok need a lil advise i have 818 headband and afghan kush they popped up about 2 weeks ago and look healthy as can be but i noticed today when i went down there that one leave on each plat and very bottom started looking bad and today i go look an this is what i find.





these are the only two leaves that look this way both are on very bottom and both have the same thing going on any ideas


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## Dr. Danks (Feb 8, 2013)

Uncle Ben 

so I have a new 1000 watts system and my plant were doing great from seed looking very healthy from seed... Moved my plants from my germination/cloning room to my grow room it's about the fourth day and the leafs half good color but the edges of the leaves are starting to curl up and in no yellow spots anywhere. I'm thinking my light might be lil to close but ventilation isn't a problem perfect temp in room. I back the light off a little bit this morning see what changes if any but any ideas I'm trying to catch it before its worsens.

trying to post a picture but doesn't seem it will let me on the iPad ill have to upload one soon so better show what is happening.


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## Dr. Danks (Feb 8, 2013)

Looks like u might be developing some sort of mold or fungus it's always good to keep the bottom of the plants cut back from the soil leave that hang low are at risk for such issues.... Did u figure it out?


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## ecsdf1 (Feb 22, 2013)

Stabbing it won't help, the channels will just close up over time. Pulling out very small cores vertically through the rootball will work but I doubt if you have such a gadget.[/QUOTE]


like a cheese iron? lol


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## JoeK99 (Feb 25, 2013)

Hello & Help

I am a first time grower and am having problems getting plants started. After the seed germinates I transfer into soil and thats where the problem starts. They seem to die? Seed sprouts are going into seedling soil no nutes. I have had 3 of about 10 germinated seeds actually break ground the rest died. Once in dirt I put into a dome maybe that's the problem? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## gregorym (Feb 27, 2013)

Greetings Everyone,
I am working on my first grow, All plants are flowering, (nicely) but one of the plants is very yellow. Flowers are green, as you can see, but I am concerned as the harvest time is only a week or so away... Should I be worried?


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## iamcenter (Mar 2, 2013)

View attachment 2549642View attachment 2549644

What is going on with my 18 girls ? all like this


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## yankeegreen (Mar 2, 2013)

iamcenter said:


> View attachment 2549642View attachment 2549644
> 
> What is going on with my 18 girls ? all like this


Not sure this is the right place for your post - may get batter results starting a new thread. Provide more info: What strain, what type of medium, what has been added to the medium (nutes? supplements? etc). How we is the medium, etc.

Gl man!


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## acapolcogold (Mar 15, 2013)

one of my grow boxes which is roughly 1.5 square feet with about a 150W cfl setup, sits at about 26 to 28 degrees C constantly. In order to keep the temperature under control im running two fans 24/7 one directly above the plant. i have one white rhino mother about 5 inches tall in there and shes just a bush, most of the leaves on top are curling and the serrated tips are pointing up (srry not able to post pic at this time ) its seems like its either to much wind or to much heat at this point but i dont know which, i basically have to have air moving on the plant 24 7 in order to keep the temps low i know direct air all the time is bad but its either that or or have really high temps. which do you think would be less stressful constant wind or high heat. ( and iv also heard white rhino is very sceptical to nute burn ) think i just have a fussy lady ? i did feed two days ago


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## kamdo (Mar 16, 2013)

great man, thanks


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## edyah (Mar 27, 2013)

this goes for a plant recieving too much sun light

A reason for droppy leaves beside the cannibus forum drill "overwater/underwater" all the time.


Plats maintain their bodies by turgor pressure, the pressure of water on the rigid plant cell. Think of a gladware plastic container: if you fill it with water so much it will expand as much as possible. I can't think of a better example at the moment, btw. 
I: The stomata, little pores on the undersides of leaves, respond to blue light and open. If there is a continuous source of light, then the stomata will stay open more often causing more water to leave the plant, not to mention the (II: ) water produced by photosynthesis (water is removed when a carbohydrate is made). III: Although plants don't have a complex circulatory system like ours, they have a pretty cool one. They respond to temperature by taking in more water when the temperature is higher (because of the sunlight). This is called transpiration. As a result they want to cool themselves more, so they release more water from their stomata by this method also. This is one of the explanations for the humidity of a tropical canopy: aside from high temperatures, plants are releasing water which is then trapped under a thick layer of leaves. I kinda went off on a tangent...but I hope that helps.lol. Btw, the more water the plant releases, the less pressure there is to support its structure, causing what you described as "droop."
*Source(s):*

random Botany info floating around in my head

-Mr. Smart (yahoo answers)


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## GrowDon (Apr 4, 2013)

hey can u check my post maybe u know whats going wrong with my plants please help ! thanks ! growdon.


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## gatormike (Apr 7, 2013)

thanks Uncle Ben


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## phats007 (Apr 7, 2013)

I need help with my plant


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## phats007 (Apr 7, 2013)

How do i put pics on here


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## phats007 (Apr 7, 2013)

I need help with my plant


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## sunni (Apr 8, 2013)

phats you might wanna be a tad bit more descriptive


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Apr 8, 2013)

phats007 said:


> I need help with my plant




what's wrong with it? you got any pics?


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## Figong (Apr 8, 2013)

Dr. Greenhorn said:


> what's wrong with it? you got any pics?


He'd have to link externally, his current post count won't allow image tags and may not allow links either... I never ran into that issue, my first 2 days I put up 50+ posts and had capability by then.


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Apr 8, 2013)

Figong said:


> He'd have to link externally, his current post count won't allow image tags and may not allow links either... I never ran into that issue, my first 2 days I put up 50+ posts and had capability by then.


I didn't know that. thanks for the heads up


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## Scorlan (Apr 11, 2013)

i pretty sure this lines up, I just cant find the answer https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/643632-helping-hand-please-am-i.html 
overwatered, underwatered, and/ or just stressed?


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## snakekeeper (Apr 13, 2013)

The soil should dry out before rewatering if using peat. if using coco you need to keep it wet


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## adamsgarden (Apr 16, 2013)

Any ideas with whats going on? Im a super noob I know. I havent been really watering them too much


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## yankeegreen (Apr 16, 2013)

adamsgarden said:


> View attachment 2618785 View attachment 2618786 View attachment 2618787
> 
> Any ideas with whats going on? Im a super noob I know. I havent been really watering them too much


Wow, that's a super-stretch! Lights are not providing enough intensity (too weak) and/or too far from the plant. CFLs can be be jsut a few inches from the seedling as long as they are not too hot.


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## OSAMAbinSMOKIN (Apr 20, 2013)

Ok been looking for the answer to this.. Ive been getting clawed leaves on some of my plants. 

I have 5 (unknown strain) plants in 3gal fabric pots. I use a mix of FF OF and LW for the medium. 
I use Big bloom and Tiger Bloom as nutes and only since i switched to 12/12 (didnt have the cash for it during the veg cycle). 
I use 1/2 strength with the TB and 2/3 strength with the BB. 
Ive been watering them with a quart of H2O every other day and 1/2 litre on the in between days. (And I dont PH balance btw) 
My question is: Am I watering too frequently? And could this be the cause of the clawed leaves? And can a high or low ph cause this?


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## growingguru (May 1, 2013)




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## growingguru (May 1, 2013)

Why are my clones doing this


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## spitsbuds (May 1, 2013)

* OSAMAbinSMOKIN 

*pic one look like n claw, for to much nitrogen, quite common round week 3 of flower, when the stretch is over


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## spitsbuds (May 1, 2013)

we've not got super powers growingguru


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## growingguru (May 1, 2013)

What do you mean? Please somebody help not sure why my clones look like this


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## spitsbuds (May 1, 2013)

i carnt see the pics, one sec i go refresh and reload the page


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## growingguru (May 1, 2013)

Oh sorry about the pictures buddy I am posting these off my phone not really sure how to resize or anything


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## spitsbuds (May 1, 2013)

np. let me know when youve done it, send me a message and a have look for you and help if i can, ive just got to pop of 30 mins or so and i check back


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## damnpests (May 30, 2013)

i need help ;[... my plant isn't wilting or anything but part of the leaves are turning brown. i think i know what it's from though. i sprayed watered down mustard on it as an insect repellant (during the day time) and it possibly could've burned my plant's leaves. either that, or because my plant hasn't been dry in like 3 days (from all the rain).


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## lbezphil2005 (Jun 3, 2013)

damnpests said:


> i need help ;[... my plant isn't wilting or anything but part of the leaves are turning brown. i think i know what it's from though. i sprayed watered down mustard on it as an insect repellant (during the day time) and it possibly could've burned my plant's leaves. either that, or because my plant hasn't been dry in like 3 days (from all the rain).


lmao - always at night bro, always at night, or really early in the morning, like 2 am, so they have time to absorb what they can and the rest can dry off. when the sun or your lights come on, the intensity thru the water just cooks the plant material. are they in pots or in the ground? if they are in the ground, it can be way more forgiving than pots, just try to get it not to puddle. if in pots raise them so it just runs thru. put them on top of milk crates or something. so they don't sit in water too. that actually could be both.


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## WorkNugsSuck (Jun 16, 2013)

Hey Ben,

One of my babies is having some issues with the leaves curling, getting brown spots, and turning yellow. Was wondering if you have a diagnosis or solution.

Thanks,
Winston


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## Scroga (Jun 16, 2013)

gday UB, so how does it work for dwc? my dinachem is slightly cupping up...still a nice dark green with no burn, just cupping up...its still a
transpiration issue isnt it? and cupping down would be not enough d/o in the water? thanks for your time....


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## CaliBoi818 (Jun 19, 2013)

View attachment 2705770View attachment 2705771View attachment 2705772View attachment 2705773 can somebody plz help me out im not forsure whats wrong with her ... The first two picz are the top of the lil lady and the other two are from the bottom .. View attachment 2705777this one curling down is the middleView attachment 2705778 and then they die!!! And the other unkown strain is having problems >>so can i get some feed bac asap so i can fix this thanks !!!


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## maltagrow001 (Jun 22, 2013)

Hi Guys can anyone help me I have these 5 week plants but they still look really small for 5 weeks what is the problem the first picture is how I planted them the second and 3rd are the two plants the second one has already developed the white strings but still small I grow outdoors and I give them 8 to 12 hrs a day of direct sun and water them 4 times a day nay one help pl​


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## justlearning73 (Jun 22, 2013)

I would get them out of those clear cups. Roots like air not light.


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## roamingrichy (Jun 26, 2013)

Hi everyone,
Looks like this is the place 2 be for all matters related to leaf and water issues.
So, in another forum I've been steadily posting pics of my 2 plants that I belive are now beyond saving. However, willing to keep going see if they can miraculously recover.
I've taken off all the browning and seriously curled leaves, leaving quite a sad looking pair of plants.
Any thoughts or are these no good?

View attachment 2714138View attachment 2714139View attachment 2714140View attachment 2714141View attachment 2714142
Thanks!


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## wyteboi (Jun 30, 2013)

maltagrow001 said:


> Hi Guys can anyone help me I have these 5 week plants but they still look really small for 5 weeks what is the problem the first picture is how I planted them the second and 3rd are the two plants the second one has already developed the white strings but still small I grow outdoors and I give them 8 to 12 hrs a day of direct sun and water them 4 times a day nay one help pl​


first , stop watering ...period. 4 times a day , even in that lil cup is enough water for a 3 foot high , monster plant! wait till they are nearly dry before next watering.

then read this too:


justlearning73 said:


> I would get them out of those clear cups. Roots like air not light.


and they cant get no air if they are flooded.



soil


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## wyteboi (Jun 30, 2013)

roamingrichy said:


> Hi everyone,
> Looks like this is the place 2 be for all matters related to leaf and water issues.
> So, in another forum I've been steadily posting pics of my 2 plants that I belive are now beyond saving. However, willing to keep going see if they can miraculously recover.
> I've taken off all the browning and seriously curled leaves, leaving quite a sad looking pair of plants.
> ...


Those girls are pissed off , thats all , they are nowhere near dead. let um dry out real good....is all i can say right now.





soil


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## greennewfie (Jul 3, 2013)

Best watering/moisture info ever very simple to understand thanks again uncle Ben


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## HayesYHaze (Jul 10, 2013)

Hey Uncle!

I've searched the web high and low for a week, I dont know to submit a HELP ME post... but I greatly need your help.

I assumed my plant was root-bound after the leaves began to look like this, transplanted to a 4GaL pot, and Three days later- still curling in with tips yellowed.
Its on 18/6 lighting. I water everyother day. (soil isn't moist 2" down) 
Averages in tent are 37-48% Humidity, (77-81deg LIGHT) (72-74deg DARK)



Leaves lower are the same but dark, and "cripsy" like
I give up, and neeeed help!


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## BoobieSmooth (Jul 11, 2013)

Hey Everyone,
I need some help I been looking on the internet for over a week and thought the yellowing of my lower leaves were one thing then I had three different people telling me 3 different things so now im all confused and don't know what to do. I stop giving nutes over a week ago and before that I was only feeding at half strength.

Soil- Fox Farms Ocean Forest with added Perlite
Nutes- Fox Farms Grow Big


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## grebal (Jul 12, 2013)

Wait for the experts to opine, but I say "feed 'em".

FFOF only has food for a month or so (3 weeks according to most, but that may be because most add perlite/vermiculite). That's a big plant for the pot, so it may have already eaten the organic nutes in the FFOF. 

Why did you start the starvation diet? Did someone diagnose for you the yellow as nute burn? Because most say yellow leaves at bottom means nute deprivation, generally N (or overwatering, or not getting enough light, or maybe something else since there's usually more than one possible explanation).


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## justlearning73 (Jul 12, 2013)

Hey Boobie,
IMO your plant looks good. The yellowing of the bottom leaves happens. Do you grow inddors or out?


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## BoobieSmooth (Jul 12, 2013)

Yea someone told me to stop feeding so I did a week ago. This plant is in a 7 gallon pot but I now think its to small. I tried to test my soil ph today and I can't even get any soil to put in the tube its all roots so tomorrow I'm gonna put it in a 12 gallon pot. This plant is keep outdoors at my house all the others are in the woods and are doing really good no problems at all. Oh I forgot to mention that my plant does have pistols now so should I start feeding it with Big Bloom instead of Grow Big?


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## BoobieSmooth (Jul 12, 2013)

I also have to water it every night if not by 4 am when I get up for work all the leaves are drooping. And i water it till water starts coming out the drainage holes.


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## justlearning73 (Jul 12, 2013)

I wouldnt worry about your yellow leaves on the bottom unless they take over. It is natural for the plant to shed some of it leaves as time goes on. If you want to test your soil PH just use some of the water run off when watering. I have to be honest I do not have any experience on growing outside all my stuff is inside. I am not sure were you live, but I also wouldnt put plants in a metal "pot". The sun can really cook the roots. Oh what is the strain?


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## BoobieSmooth (Jul 12, 2013)

The yellow is slowly moving up and I just noticed my new growth is only growing 5 leaves instead of 7 and the leaves are kinda deformed. And the pot is plastic your the 3rd person to think it was metal haha. I live in MA and my plant gets full sun till around 2ish. As for strain i'm not sure its from some really good bud my buddy had there were only 2 seeds in the lb and only this would grow my guess would be something indica dominant tho because of how bushy and fast it grew compared to all the other plants I have.


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## justlearning73 (Jul 12, 2013)

Ok just spit balling here but have you added anything besides soil and nutes? What about Cal-Mag? Then again if it is a diff of some type when you repot it that may take care of it. When you repot take a good close view of the roots. See if you have any root rot or maybe root bound? Take pics when you repot and post them it may help. Also pics of the top to show what you are talking about would help too. Sorry man not really sure beyond what i have said. Sorry I havent been more helpful. I wish you all the luck. You have a fine looking plant there so far.


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## Sheesh420 (Jul 12, 2013)

I would look at over/under watering or pH as the culprit if it's "climbing" up the plant from the bottom.


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## BoobieSmooth (Jul 13, 2013)

I know my watering is fine but I don't no my ph. I have a ph/water/light meter but it broke and I been looking for another one, I bought a tomato soil ph test kit but I can't get any soil to put in the tubes because there are so many roots so im gonna test the runoff this morning. And you have been very helpful im not worried and stressed out anymore thank you.


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## BoobieSmooth (Jul 13, 2013)

The store where I buy my FF soil is out of ocean forest any suggestions? I may just buy some other organic soil from that place and get Bid Bloom if they have the smaller one yet. Should I be switching to Big Bloom now that I have pistols?


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## justlearning73 (Jul 13, 2013)

Hey Boobie I used to use FF, good stuff, although very expensive stuff. I now use lady bug soil. Way cheaper and it is good soil. Not sure if they have it were you live. As far as nutes go I dont use a veg nute then a bloom nute. If you have a good balanced nute you dont need to. As a matter of fact I use the same nutes not only for my lady's but also for the rest of my plants. Yeah I may add a little something here or there to supliment but just depends on the plants. I have veggies and herbs outside. I have multiple house plants. Doesnt matter. They are all happy. I dont buy into all that you have to have this or that for weed. It is a plant just like anyother plant.Ok actually it is stronger than most plants look were these suckers grow everywhere except the poles. By the way that yellowing on top is a sign of N deff. Feed her. LOL


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## BoobieSmooth (Jul 14, 2013)

Yea it is a little pricey ill have to look for that I never noticed it before tho, In the past I have always made my own soil with my friend hes got a good way of doing it. I have never switched nutes before and never had problems its just I was trying to get the most out of this plant. What are you using for nutes JustLearning73? So I put her in a new pot yesterday I think its a 12 gallon the roots did look a little unhealthy and I think it was root bound. I took a pic with it next to a trash bin so you can get an idea how big the plant is, I hope this pot will be big enough. Well let me know what you guys think of the roots and pot size thanks for all the help greatly appreciated.


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## justlearning73 (Jul 14, 2013)

Boobie, yeah looks like it was rootbond. I have to say Boobie even with the rootbond problems that plant is looking good. I use the lady bug nuts as well. It is good stuff just dont smell it.It will knock a buzzard off a meat wagon. Liek i said I try to keep it as simple as I can. I grow indoors. I have always wanted to grow outside, but with the way the laws are here, I am just afraid to try it. From 0 to Feleony in nothing flat.


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## theloadeddragon (Jul 14, 2013)

whats the problem?


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## whodatnation (Jul 14, 2013)

theloadeddragon said:


> whats the problem?



Agreed, I dont see anything wrong. Big lower fans drop as they age,,, no biggie... Shit pile them up at the base of the plant for mulch.


Edit: I would def put it in a big ass container before its too late,,, that girl is gonna be giant if you give her the proper root space.


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## F.M.I.L.Y (Jul 14, 2013)

Bobbie that plant looks fine and if I was you I would put that plant in the ground. The plant is very large and the roots are begging for more room, dont stop feeding her! Transplant transplant transplant!


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## DoobieBrother (Jul 14, 2013)

Everything the last 4 guys said.
Nice root system!


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## DoobieBrother (Jul 14, 2013)

And you could do a mild foliar feeding with the FF nutes to help her while she acclimates to the new pot to stop the girl from feeding on herself.


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## whodatnation (Jul 14, 2013)

F.M.I.L.Y said:


> Bobbie that plant looks fine and if I was you I would put that plant in the ground. The plant is very large and the roots are begging for more room, dont stop feeding her! Transplant transplant transplant!


Better yet! In the ground I think! Im a dumb indoor grower


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## F.M.I.L.Y (Jul 14, 2013)

whodatnation said:


> Better yet! In the ground I think! Im a dumb indoor grower


Shit I admire your outdoor veggie gardens.


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## BoobieSmooth (Jul 15, 2013)

Hey guys I did put her in a bigger pot on saturday and she has already put on at least a inch all around. The problem I had was that the lower leaves were turning yellow and starting to move up, and the new growth on top was only 3 leaves and really skinny I think it was root bound by the looks of it.


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## WeeBabySeamus90 (Jul 23, 2013)

Hey guys and gals, recently joined forum so I can get some input on these LR2's I just started. 
As you can see from the pick the leaves are starting to kind of curl upward and was wandering if it could be from the sun or over watering?
These are going to be outdoors plants and I can't/don't want to plant them in the ground because their really isn't any good spots and it is also monsoon season out here in Arizona.
Soooo I just wanted some input as to why the seedlings are doing this? 
I know the soil on top looks dry but that is because I tried putting some on top to help soak up the standing water, as the pot was not draining like I had hoped it would overnight....
So I took an ice pick and made the holes bigger and drained out the water but the plants are like this now...
Also the seedlings get direct Arizona sunlight from about 10:30 am - 3:00 pm... Is this too much sunlight for seedlings???
I figured it would not matter that amount of sunlight if I kept them watered but now they're doing this so I'm curious if it is sun or water...
Using organic soil and threw in some used coffee grinds, egg shells and banana peels before planting, just to get some elements in the soil...plants were fine for the first week but now this...

Ph: 6.5 - 6.7


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## DoobieBrother (Jul 23, 2013)

That's called "praying to the almighty sun", and it's a good thing.
Most seedlings need some protection from harsh direct sunlight so that they don't dry out too quickly.
Some outdoors guys poke a garden spade down into the dirt near the seedling so it sits in shadow, which is still plenty bright for a tiny plant with small leaves.
Once it outgrows the shadow of the spade, you can decide if it's hardy enough to go on it's own from there, or if you need some netting or loose gardening fabric set up to give some minor shade to take the edge off.
Once it's big enough it'll be good to go for full sunlight if you choose to give it to the plant.
I'm sure others will pop in with better advice.


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## LeMonster (Jul 25, 2013)

I'm having troubles. I'm nearing day 26 and my girls just soooo small. Not to mention it's a light green which I haven't been able to fix. Now the fan leaves (the few I even have) are cupping down. I'm fairly certain this an issue related to too much moisture. As for the rest, I'm lost. I'm broke, Im stuck moving my girl window to window (which is a little embarrassing), aaaand I'm a little worried my soil is in serious need of change. Does anyone have any tips to help my girl grow, roots and all? Greatly appreciated.

- le monster


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## justlearning73 (Jul 25, 2013)

LeMonster said:


> I'm having troubles. I'm nearing day 26 and my girls just soooo small. Not to mention it's a light green which I haven't been able to fix. Now the fan leaves (the few I even have) are cupping down. I'm fairly certain this an issue related to too much moisture. As for the rest, I'm lost. I'm broke, Im stuck moving my girl window to window (which is a little embarrassing), aaaand I'm a little worried my soil is in serious need of change. Does anyone have any tips to help my girl grow, roots and all? Greatly appreciated.
> 
> - le monster


Can you post some pics so we can see what your talking about?


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## LeMonster (Jul 25, 2013)

Gladly, I just have to figure out how to get it from my iPad to here lol. My computer screen had a run in with hulk...


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## LeMonster (Jul 25, 2013)

Hope this will do. Can't take more till later tonight. Hopefully I'm just being overly cautious...


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## LeMonster (Jul 25, 2013)

I should mention that picture was taken a few days ago and the drooping on the lower two leaves have considerably increased.

Let me know if you can't access the picture.


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## justlearning73 (Jul 25, 2013)

nothing showing


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## LeMonster (Jul 25, 2013)

Damn. I think my only other option would be to email it to someone, if someone's willing. Idk why it won't let me upload.


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## Y0da (Aug 19, 2013)

Might be hungry, a lack of nitrogen will do same thing


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## LeMonster (Aug 19, 2013)

I had given up on the poor thing until recently. I mean it looked pretty bleak. But I switched out for a more airy soil I had lyin around the other day. I had always been awar of my crappy clump soil and I think it may have invited root rot to the party. I figured I'd give it another shot and try to setup up a proper light cycle for it. Too many variables being choked out window to window. I'm gonna try givin it some nuts as soon as it pops some new leaves and gets back on track a littl bit. I mean it's been at least a month and a half and it's tiny lol. Do you think I should toss it a low amount of notes now anyway? Thanks for the response.
- LM


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## Herb Man (Sep 21, 2013)

Some very simple but good pointers.

Cheers.


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## Herb Man (Sep 21, 2013)

HayesYHaze said:


> Hey Uncle!
> 
> I've searched the web high and low for a week, I dont know to submit a HELP ME post... but I greatly need your help.
> 
> ...


We need to talk about what's going on in your closet.

I dont care if your growing, but that set up has to go.


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## chris chronic (Sep 24, 2013)

alright sweet that first post just about answered my question about some of my leaves curling like a bluntwrap lol thanks!


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## kib13 (Oct 6, 2013)

pls a little help, my leaves ar curling in a strange way, is this normal?


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## CreteKeene (Oct 9, 2013)

http://youtu.be/CkP2kTXUKaw any help or suggestions appreciated


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## plaguedog (Oct 28, 2013)

blackxs said:


> C02 can definitely help in high temperature conditions,_* but generally, growth will slow above 83/85.*_
> 
> If at all possible, lower your temps to about 80 and see if your plants dont enjoy it more. I bet they will. And while C02 may help mitigate any ill effects of temperature, it can be a tradeoff because you have to turn ventilation off to run it which lets things get hotter. Unless your running a closed setup. In which case I think no-C02 running 10 degrees cooler would be better. Just IMO, but what do I know - I only have so few posts


Really? Where is the documentation of this? I would like to see some actual facts, not pot forum myths.....


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## plaguedog (Oct 28, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> You have to help (and figure this out) yourself. The problem may be your root system or overall lack of understanding of basic plant culture. Buy Mel Frank's "MJ Insiders Growers Guide". It is your shortcut to success.
> 
> The following is the best write up on soil container gardening I've seen in my 40+ years of gardening. The post (member) replies to Al the author is amazing. http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0316064615891.html?14
> 
> ...


Wow that is an incredible article on container plants. Everything you really need to know is in that, and beginners would do very well to read it. The soil mixes are spot on as well. I have switched from a full peat based mix to pine bark fines and the results have been incredible to say the least.


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## Gro420 (Oct 30, 2013)

Hei Uncle, please help me out!!

What's going on to my little girl?!?






It's Jack Herer GHS, and I have another newer, worst case...







What do you guys think it's possible could be the problem? Thanks


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## Ray.Wost (Nov 12, 2013)

Hello..
I would like ask you for the help and advice.
I grow my indoor plants in the soil substrat BioBizz Lightmix, under 250W Philips HPI and I use BioBizz fertilizers (Grow, Alg-A-Mic and for a two weeks I use Bloom and TopMax too - according the instruction of BioBizz). Input pH is 6,4 (EC I can´t measure-I have not a EC meter)
Temperature is from 68F till 74F and moisture is around 50-60% - I have got still turned on exhaust ventilator (UFO 275m/h) and when is "day" inside I using circulation ventilator (Honeywell 900). 
On old big leaves I find this desease, but I don´t hnow what is it. 
1. I thought this is some blight (leaf blight)
2. I thought this is Phosphorus deficiency


I tried to sprayed the flowers preparation against blight (system fungicide) and give more of Phosphorus to the soil. I cut all sick leafs (about 2 leafs of one plant). It seemed to be good for a 2 weeks, but now I find disease leaf again and I am afraid, that I can´t help them. I think it can´t be salted soil, but I don´t know.
In a last few days I found, that flowers don´t drink like before.


Please, pleas help me.. (and sorry for my English - I´m from the Czech republic)
I appreciate your advice.. Thank you a lot.


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## budman111 (Nov 16, 2013)

Gro420 said:


> It's Jack Herer GHS, and I have another newer, worst case...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


looks like phosphorous burn to me


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## Skiya67 (Nov 22, 2013)

They are burning up. Have you checked ppm run off? How often are you feeding them nutes? Im guessing you might be way up there with ppms. They may be locked up and not taking up nutes. Get yourself a ppm pen. Until then, flush them out. When its time to feed again, start with half recommended and increase accordingly. I would give them no more than 500 ppms to start back up and they start to pull out of it. Good luck.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 24, 2013)

Ray.Wost said:


> Hello..
> I would like ask you for the help and advice.
> I grow my indoor plants in the soil substrat BioBizz Lightmix, under 250W Philips HPI and I use BioBizz fertilizers (Grow, Alg-A-Mic and for a two weeks I use Bloom and TopMax too - according the instruction of BioBizz). Input pH is 6,4 (EC I can´t measure-I have not a EC meter)
> Temperature is from 68F till 74F and moisture is around 50-60% - I have got still turned on exhaust ventilator (UFO 275m/h) and when is "day" inside I using circulation ventilator (Honeywell 900).
> ...


Folks, just a note. I unsubscribed from this thread long ago as I don't have the time or motivation to respond to the numerous cries for help. You've got to get the basics down and I'm not going to repeat myself or teach the basics over and over again. Buy Mel Franks book.

Another reason for not following this thread is the never ending quoting of food names which is meaningless in the real world of botany. I need exact NPK and micro values, how much, how often, etc. Having said that, I see some leaf chlorosis going on there most likely caused by bloom foods.


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## shortngreen (Nov 24, 2013)

Hey any help would be awesome. I have 7 teenies that just turned over to the darkside. 6 different strains total. Mostly variations of OG Kush. I flushed them for *2 days* because my nutrients, hps bulb, and bassp adapter were a day late arriving by mail. They have now been under 12/12 for two days and they appear to be healthy other than yellow just before the stems of most of the fan leaves. my temp variates between 71 and 79 and 40% humidity in the room ebb in flow and 1200 ppm GH Flora Nova nutrient and ph of 5.6


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## shortngreen (Nov 24, 2013)

@ uncle ben


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## Ray.Wost (Nov 25, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> Folks, just a note. I unsubscribed from this thread long ago as I don't have the time or motivation to respond to the numerous cries for help. You've got to get the basics down and I'm not going to repeat myself or teach the basics over and over again. Buy Mel Franks book.
> 
> Another reason for not following this thread is the never ending quoting of food names which is meaningless in the real world of botany. I need exact NPK and micro values, how much, how often, etc. Having said that, I see some leaf chlorosis going on there most likely caused by bloom foods.


Thank You.. Your reply is very friendly ;(


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## Skiya67 (Nov 25, 2013)

I have read numerous plant problem posts in which there are plant problems and have yet to see that anybody has not only flushed but checked run off with ppm and ph pen. Just because you flushed doesnt mean you have gotten rid of high ppms. Flush until run off is ppms of the water (if any). Start back up with 1/2 nutes and gradually increase.


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## Dboi87 (Nov 25, 2013)

Ray.Wost said:


> Thank You.. Your reply is very friendly ;(


Well we can tell you didn't read the thread. Had you read it all you would have probably found your problem. You also would have known UncleBen doesn't like repeating himself. He doesn't mean to offend. Read his threads in entirety and you'll figure out the root of your problem and be much better at growing anything in general


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## joe macclennan (Nov 25, 2013)

Dboi87 said:


> Well we can tell you didn't read the thread. Had you read it all you would have probably found your problem. You also would have known UncleBen doesn't like repeating himself. He doesn't mean to offend. Read his threads in entirety and you'll figure out the root of your problem and be much better at growing anything in general


hmmm, nope he could care less if he offends. 

Doesn't bother me so much cuz i'm the same way @ times....and I agree with most of his advice.

as far as reading entire threads....almost two thousand posts in this one..I understand why ppl. don't want to take the time to read them all. Especially with all the trolling comments and redundant posts. What I like to do is search a thread using just a specific members name. It narrows it down a bit.


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## MRJOKERFACE (Nov 26, 2013)

Help I think My plant is sick I think from what I know from 2 successful grows and reading up I have a deficiency problem from bad ph'd water or root rot from being in water logged soil too long I didn't know what to do so I just flushed the pot with 4 times the pot which is a five gallon bucket I have it in I thought maybe just Nute burn or too Mucha something as I did add a lil too much big bloom to her last week n she was the only one to show any problems Im'a watch her n see how she recovers if she even does but since i flushed yesterday she has become perkier again some of the undamaged leaves starting to pop up towards the light I hope she makes it. Any input would be great thanks.MJ


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 27, 2013)

Dboi87 said:


> Well we can tell you didn't read the thread. Had you read it all you would have probably found your problem. You also would have known UncleBen doesn't like repeating himself. He doesn't mean to offend. Read his threads in entirety and you'll figure out the root of your problem and be much better at growing anything in general


I'm (we're) not mind readers. With no cultural info given how in the hell is anyone supposed to help? Also people, I don't get paid for this. I'm only offering advise as a measure of courtesy.

The basics are found on page one. That's all you should need plus do like some of us and spend thousands of hours researching and years of experience.

Good luck


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## Ray.Wost (Nov 28, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> I'm (we're) not mind readers. With no cultural info given how in the hell is anyone supposed to help? Also people, I don't get paid for this. I'm only offering advise as a measure of courtesy.
> 
> The basics are found on page one. That's all you should need plus do like some of us and spend thousands of hours researching and years of experience.
> 
> Good luck


I´m sorry for bombing this thread, but this is problem which I solve in last 3 last times of growing my indoor. I asked a lot of people in grow-shops, but I didn´t find a solution. In last two month the situation in Czech republic rapidly turned - forums and lot of shops were closed. I have growing for a 14years - I hope I´m not a greenhorn ;(
I was looking here for a two days before I wrote my post, but I didn´t find. I thought, somebody from your community may be saw something like this and could helped. 
So, I´m sorry..community in our country was destroyed and I just looked for some help.
Have a nice day (sorry for my English)


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 28, 2013)

"BioBizz fertilizers (Grow, Alg-A-Mic and for a two weeks I use Bloom and TopMax too"

What is the NPK and micro values of the foods you've been giving your plants, how much, and how often? If I had to guess you may have been pushing them with low N foods, bloom foods, that actually work against you by destroying the very unit (leaves) that produces what you're after.

Good luck,
UB


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## jswett1100 (Nov 29, 2013)

Here uncle Ben I could really use your help on this one, Ive had this issue on a couple of plants in which i just thought it was nitrogen deficiency but my plants use all organic nutrients and i use the go box so my ph should be level or at least thats what the box says. all of my plants are on a steady feeding schedule and I keep a log for them, They receive about a liter of water each so i dont really think it could be overwatering ether. Please tell me what you think.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 29, 2013)

jswett1100 said:


> Here uncle Ben I could really use your help on this one, Ive had this issue on a couple of plants in which i just thought it was nitrogen deficiency but my plants use all organic nutrients and i use the go box so my ph should be level or at least thats what the box says. all of my plants are on a steady feeding schedule and I keep a log for them, They receive about a liter of water each so i dont really think it could be overwatering ether. Please tell me what you think.
> 
> View attachment 2911554


What's the NPK ratio?


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## Daniel710 (Nov 30, 2013)

Can anyone help me out Don't know whats wrong tips are brown/dry and crispy little dots on some of the new leaves! Also I got a lot of mushrooms sprouting up!


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## UkPaSsIoN:) (Dec 1, 2013)

Hey guys need some help asap im in week eight of flower and I think my plants are pulling themselfs apart?? Never seen it before bu would really apreciate some help so send a message if u know ure bizz please im shitting myself dont know whats up


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## DivideITdntHideIT (Dec 10, 2013)

txs man very helpful


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## DivideITdntHideIT (Dec 10, 2013)

any pics would help


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## OutbackGrower (Dec 10, 2013)

I'm on my first grow and i've run into some problems with one of my plants the leaves are getting these rusty spots and the tips are starting to curl and they are dry and crispy i dont use any nutes other then food scraps and i water once a day my soil is sponge like so i thought over watering but the stem is hard and i water my other plants the same amount and they seem fine so i have no idea now could someone help? also would adding eggshells for calcium affect this plant in any negative way while it is in this stage


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## Hazin' (Dec 13, 2013)

Long-time lurker. First post here. 

This thread is by far the best resource to anyone growing cannabis. Uncle Ben excels far beyond others in his cogent yet tactful responses. The dedication to this thread is superb. 

My hat is off to you.

Peace

Hazin


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## frankd21 (Dec 17, 2013)

I have violator kush running right now in week 5 of flower I jave 15 plants and the leaves are turning yellow and crispy(fan leaves) some plants are worse than other, the one plant has zero yellow to it and is 1000% healthy. They are all getting fed the exact same.I have grown before and none of my other crops have did this. I tried to lower the ppm but didn't help, my grow room is 77-79° and humidity at 35%. Could it be cause from low humidity?


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## Bear Country (Dec 17, 2013)

Its hard to guess what could be happening with these plants...pictures would be helpful. There are a few things that occure with plants that look very similiar to one another but with pictures one can see perhaps the minor differences. Otherwise everyone is just guessing.


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## frankd21 (Dec 17, 2013)

I have violator kush running right now in week 5 of flower I jave 15 plants and the leaves are turning yellow and crispy(fan leaves) some plants are worse than other, the one plant has zero yellow to it and is 1000% healthy. They are all getting fed the exact same.I have grown before and none of my other crops have did this. I tried to lower the ppm but didn't help, my grow room is 77-79° and humidity at 35%. Could it be cause from low humidity?


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## frankd21 (Dec 17, 2013)




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## Bear Country (Dec 17, 2013)

frankd21 said:


> View attachment 2931877View attachment 2931879View attachment 2931880View attachment 2931881


The top left plant shows N defiicency at a pretty high level for being that you are only in week 5 of flower. I personally use higher N ratios during flowering. I try to keep the plant as green as possible. The leaves you picked off, intrestingly enough, look like a combination of things related to nutes....not excluding some burn??? But when the leaves curl inwards like that it usually insicates that the plant was trying to disipate water at some point but was unable to. you could have excessive salt build up in the soil and possibly have some lock out issues going on there, however it seems to be somewhat isolated because the overall health of the plants looks, actually pretty pretty good.

Anyone else have something to add??


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## frankd21 (Dec 17, 2013)

When you say the leave is disipate do you mean too much water or not enough? And the weird thing is not all the plants leaves are doing this only on like half of them. I have one plant that is unbelievably healthy with super green healthy leaves and I feed them all the same I dont understand.what could I do to bring them back healthy or what should I do to prevent them from getting worse?


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## frankd21 (Dec 17, 2013)

Also the plants that are worse the leaves are curling upward and turning crispy and from the tips first


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## frankd21 (Dec 17, 2013)

Also what I thought was weird is I use general hydroponics expert series, well I bought a liter of rapid start about two months ago and it has a this layer of Mouldy looking stuff but the rapid start still smells the same.. is this normal? Or would this have an effect maybe?


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## qroox (Dec 25, 2013)

I am starting to read it now..25/12/2013.. Let's see when i am done..^^ 

~ Bill


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 25, 2013)

frankd21 said:


> Also what I thought was weird is I use general hydroponics expert series, well I bought a liter of rapid start about two months ago and it has a this layer of Mouldy looking stuff but the rapid start still smells the same.. is this normal? Or would this have an effect maybe?


You're using bloom foods I bet. 

Why in the hell do I have to ask the same old question, and why do you guys even bother to grow if you don't know what you're doing? "What's the TOTAL NPK values of those combined products?" That whole GH line with all the bottles and all their shit products is just a rip off. 
*
Rooting Enhancer

RapidStart® enhances your growing experience by delivering a powerful blend of premium plant extracts, amino acids, and nutrients generating explosive root growth. Using Rapidstart stimulates prolific root branching and development of fine root hairs that increase nutrient uptake and grow healthier, whiter roots. Using Rapidstart will make your plants explode! RapidStart can be used for all plants in prepared soil/soilless mixes, coco blends and hydroponics. Rapidstart, strong finish; bigger is always better!
*

BOOM!!!!!! Don't let the Taliban get a hold of this stuff or we're in trouble fer sure. 

Another sucker becomes a victim, and now we have 11 bottles of high priced snake oils recommended at stupid rates and times via another newbie sucker chart. GH needs to take their adjectives and phoney claims and shove it up their drain and waste tube.

http://generalhydroponics.com/site/gh/docs/feeding_sched/GH-FloraSeries-DTW-Charts.pdf

Are you guys nuts to be falling for this crap?!

All you need to grow great plants from start to finish is a quart of Dyna-Gro's Foliage Pro. Cost? $15 USD


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## Cpappa27 (Dec 25, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> You're using bloom foods I bet. What's the NPK values of those foods?


Ive stopped using just bloom foods. You made a good point a while back, hence my sig.


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## Organic Toker (Jan 6, 2014)

Beloved Uncle Ben,

You are doing a great job and people are thanking you even if they won't tell. 

I realize am still a kid infront of your knowledge and experience. If I had someone like you in India with me, I would be supplying enough medical marijuana for a state  (bragging?)

I have been learning things here and there and experimenting, observing and infering my shit if you know what I mean.

Someday I wish I could be like you.
Knowledge is one thing which grows when you share. Like someone said- you really know your shit.

May you have a long and peaceful life ahead. If you ever visit my place, I would give you my finest buds.

I'll be watching you 

Respect and Peace!

Toker.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jan 6, 2014)

Organic Toker said:


> Beloved Uncle Ben,
> 
> You are doing a great job and people are thanking you even if they won't tell.
> 
> ...


Bless you, and thank you for the very kind words! Hope you tag a long and best wishes!

BTW, do you know this guy? He posts to a tropical fruit forum. Probably be a good resource for you.


Dr. Chiranjit Parmar
164/3 Jail Road
Mandi HP 175001
INDIA
01905-222810; 094181-81323
www.fruitipedia.com
Blog: http://fruitipedia.blogspot.in/


----------



## Organic Toker (Jan 6, 2014)

Uncle Ben said:


> Bless you, and thank you for the very kind words! Hope you tag a long and best wishes!
> 
> BTW, do you know this guy? He posts to a tropical fruit forum. Probably be a good resource for you.
> 
> ...


Thank you Unc 

I will tag along the ride. I don't know the good doctor, but went through the blog and website. 

I was reading about snake oil and how companies are deceiving people by giving them toxic shit. I wish you guys were in India, I would personally see to it that you will be getting the best bio-fertilizers and liquid manures which is ORGANIC, not LIKE organic which will be made by me  There have always been players in the industry to fool the unknowing people, here also. 

Since weed is now legal in the U.S, bottled toxic nutes should be binned. Unc, am with you(behind u) in the war against fraudulent jerks. Hope legalization in India will come soon. Sorry if I hijacked your thread.

Peace!

Toker.


----------



## babyjohn (Jan 16, 2014)

uncle ben i have seen a few of your posts all over this forum and id say you were a grow guru which is good for me as i am in need of a guru are you willing to help a very frustrated grower PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 16, 2014)

Sorry, I'm not here to teach the basics. Recommend Mel Frank's book.


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## babyjohn (Jan 17, 2014)

its far from basic dude if it was basic i woulda maybe fixed it by now or maybe it is basic and im just an idiot im not tryna take a shortcut by just asking you i have spent hours reserching and still cant find a solution and who is mel frankilin :/ iv got a grow bible but just keeps leading me in circles


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## Body building Farmer (Jan 18, 2014)

My plants are about 7 inches tall. I only had my first set of true leaves on 1 plant turn yellow and started curling down........ I fixed the water I was using with RO water, and the next few sets were fine. Today I looked and on 1 plant there are holes on 1 leaf..... Look like tears, no coloration or anything??? This due to lack of calcium??


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## Body building Farmer (Jan 18, 2014)

Back ground:New to growing.....

Doing a Hydroponic L.E.D. grow
My Hydro table is 4 feet long by 2 1/2 feet wide. about 10 inches deep.....
I use 6 gallons of Reverse Osmosis Water from Wal-Mart
PPM when I get it is almost 0. After I add Nutes, and buffers it brings it to about 220
rises slowly for a few days 

have 4 plants, about 6-7 inches tall
age of the plants 1 month 2 weeks

To Flower I will a High Pressure Sodium light @ 400watts with flowering bulb.....
All top of the line nutrients
Floraduo for my pH Up and Down
Nutrients are A&B from Flora
and then a GROW root formula from them as well

Blue labs pH pen, and PPM meter, expensive but well worth it.
have 4 plants, Hybrids, big leaves so leaning more towards sativa's.


Very beautiful, first set of true leaves on 1 plant came out a little yellow and curling up, now the same plant which has about 6 leaves 1 leave has tiny holes in it and is yellowing.


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## Dr.BsBuds (Jan 19, 2014)

Needs some quick advice and/or opinions on what may be going on with my ww x bb, she's about 6-7 weeks in veg and very bushy, but just the last 2 days all the leaves (mainly canopy) have begun to droop ridiculously. Please excuse the lighting but ill add another pic so you can see they're still healthy green View attachment 2967749View attachment 2967750... Thanks in advance for any replies or suggestions, b.


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## Costicla (Jan 21, 2014)

Hi, I just wanna know what's going on with my plant
I use Advanced nutrients grow/micro/bloom (ph perfect) 2ml/L per week
A friend told me that is over-fertilised and the ph of the soil is under 5.8 
Plants are 43 days old
Should I buy a ph-up or something?


----------



## Nizza (Jan 21, 2014)

dr bs those are looking over watered to me, dig your finger in there and smell it, you prolly have root rot. that pale green look is looking like it's having a hard time getting N, either due to overwatering or you're pushing bloom foods too much

costicla, ph up and down is useless when you overwater, be sure you aren't over watering before you try to correct with ph up and down.

you guys would probably be suprised at how much water your plant doesn't need. I'm not saying don't water them, i'm saying be more careful and stick your finger in there
know what medium you use, practice with it, and you will become familiar with it. If it's a bagged medium, check out what they put into it, and readup on what each does.

body building farmer, pictures are good, and will help with the diagnosis

seems like these are all in the right thread though, if you know it's moisture stress; why are you guys asking what the problem is??


----------



## Costicla (Jan 21, 2014)

I don't think I overwater, I always put my finger on the soil (like 3-4cm) and when is dry...
Anyway, thanks for the answer, I will come with an update in 3,4 days


----------



## MoonFuckingMan (Jan 21, 2014)

Can you help w these?


----------



## MoonFuckingMan (Jan 21, 2014)

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/784493-help-please-mold.html
More info about my last reply thank you very much!!!


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## DCobeen (Jan 21, 2014)

if soil is dry i would flush with distilled water use 1 gallon for that plant. see if it rebounds remove all dead leaves. MFM looks like heat or chemical burns. what did you do too it last and what is your air temp where its grown at?


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## DCobeen (Jan 21, 2014)

cost you dont ahve to balance soil flush with distilled water to get all the junk out and that should also bring your soil closer to the right ph till you get a tester.


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## MoonFuckingMan (Jan 21, 2014)

DCobeen said:


> if soil is dry i would flush with distilled water use 1 gallon for that plant. see if it rebounds remove all dead leaves. MFM looks like heat or chemical burns. what did you do too it last and what is your air temp where its grown at?


air temp is always between 70-80 and I don't use chemicals just organicide and neem it def smells like a fungus and spreads about the leaves


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## DCobeen (Jan 21, 2014)

All when in doubt leaves are turning fast and your air temp is good think what did you do last feed nutrients? if so flush it with distilled water. you should be flushing it every 3 weeks at max (2weeks is better) anyway to remove any buildup in the soil. I use air injection soil method and i change the water every 2 days so the junk it doesn't want doesn't sit around but that is diff than what you all are doing. Plain soil grow is harder. if you add 1/2 cup water to your plant it should evenly go down into the soil evenly not stand there or start coming out the bottom when the plant is light and soil is dryish. and you have to make sure the whole plant gets water so when you water a dry plant let 1 cup come out the bottom on a 1 gall pot. and dont feed nutrients every day unless you 1/7 the strength and if you do daily feedings flush 1 day a week.


----------



## AimAim (Jan 21, 2014)

MoonFuckingMan said:


> it def* smells like a fungus *and spreads about the leaves


What does fungus smell like?

Just wondering.


----------



## spacecoast (Jan 21, 2014)

AimAim said:


> What does fungus smell like?
> 
> Just wondering.



schnozberries... duh


----------



## MoonFuckingMan (Jan 21, 2014)

DCobeen said:


> All when in doubt leaves are turning fast and your air temp is good think what did you do last feed nutrients? if so flush it with distilled water. you should be flushing it every 3 weeks at max (2weeks is better) anyway to remove any buildup in the soil. I use air injection soil method and i change the water every 2 days so the junk it doesn't want doesn't sit around but that is diff than what you all are doing. Plain soil grow is harder. if you add 1/2 cup water to your plant it should evenly go down into the soil evenly not stand there or start coming out the bottom when the plant is light and soil is dryish. and you have to make sure the whole plant gets water so when you water a dry plant let 1 cup come out the bottom on a 1 gall pot. and dont feed nutrients every day unless you 1/7 the strength and if you do daily feedings flush 1 day a week.


I just put it in supersoil last week and only water with distilled water


----------



## DCobeen (Jan 21, 2014)

MFM what is your humidity? do you have good air exchange and a fan? I have not dealt with mold. I am to anal to let that happen.


----------



## MoonFuckingMan (Jan 21, 2014)

the humidity is between 1-20% I live in Arizona no humidity to speak of and ive never had mold either I keep my setup clean and well ventilated.


----------



## MoonFuckingMan (Jan 21, 2014)

please see
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/784493-help-please-mold.html


----------



## DCobeen (Jan 21, 2014)

mfm that doesnt look like powder or even black mold you can get a tester but i would flush the heck out of that plant it looks like chemical burns big time to me.


----------



## MoonFuckingMan (Jan 21, 2014)

like I said 0 chemicals and I know it doesn't look like mold but def smells like it 

thanks a ton for your answers I appreciate it


----------



## DCobeen (Jan 21, 2014)

put plant in sink and lightly rinse leaves and and then flush soil good leave the fan on low and turn lights on till it is dry on the leaves and top soil is dry to touch. We may need an expert but ive grown tons outdoors and indoors i wouold do air injection soil or hydro only soil indoors is tough grow.


----------



## DCobeen (Jan 21, 2014)

hit google i think baking soda and water sprayed on the leaves and soil will kill any mold.


----------



## MoonFuckingMan (Jan 21, 2014)

ty I found that to just wanted to make sure it was mold first that's again


----------



## WarrenHite (Jan 22, 2014)

DCobeen said:


> hit google i think baking soda and water sprayed on the leaves and soil will kill any mold.


thanx for sharing the suggestion but there are more to help as you may Google it and get all those


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jan 22, 2014)

DCobeen said:


> hit google i think baking soda and water sprayed on the leaves and soil will kill any mold.


It'll kill your leaves too. Sodium bicarbonate. You want potassium bicarbonate. Don't really know how effective it is though.


----------



## Dr.BsBuds (Jan 22, 2014)

Thnx for the reply nizza, I've let her dry out a bit and moved my light up for about a day and she started to spruce back up a bit though she is still a little on the droopy side, weird thing is the leaves feel dry. Roots appear good for now when I checked but ill def be spacing out the watering/feeding from now on. It's my first try with the hempy method so there's def still plenty of room to improve.


----------



## noham (Jan 24, 2014)

Hello everyone. 
Care to take a look?











My RH have been around 25% for the last few days, and temps are around 86F.
Should I take caution continue growing under these conditions?

Oh... and it's been this ugly since she sprouted. vs


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## WarrenHite (Jan 25, 2014)

Uncle Ben said:


> It'll kill your leaves too. Sodium bicarbonate. You want potassium bicarbonate. Don't really know how effective it is though.


now this is really a big concern as well


----------



## Nizza (Jan 30, 2014)

Dr.BsBuds said:


> Thnx for the reply nizza, I've let her dry out a bit and moved my light up for about a day and she started to spruce back up a bit though she is still a little on the droopy side, weird thing is the leaves feel dry. Roots appear good for now when I checked but ill def be spacing out the watering/feeding from now on. It's my first try with the hempy method so there's def still plenty of room to improve.


glad I helped. The crispy leaves won't go away, anything damaged doesn't get fixed it just wont progress when you've corrected it. New foliage should be lush and if the roots look ok (how did you look at them..?) then thats all that really matters. Root rot is a big battle and hempy is great because it is pretty tough to get that. If you're really interested in hempies try searching "world of hempy" the thread is full of people who use hempy method and is really informative. Everything you need to know is there and should help you a lot. Any other questions regarding hempy ask over there, everyone will be glad to help


----------



## drf (Feb 2, 2014)

can i post on here for help


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## firsttime2014 (Feb 11, 2014)

Hello!

I have attached a photo with a little one. 16 days old. didnt feed her until today with rhizotonic for the roots (the pic was taken _just after _feeding). shouldnt be over-watering, I learned my lesson, leafes going down like this, but no more than that since yesterday. temperature around 25 C (77 F) at day, 22 at night. Humidity 30%, drops at night like 10%. I have an older one, the leafs are not down but not as pointy as they used to be.

What can it be the cause? Could be the humidity level? I have an ambient fan pointing at them, not that strong but can that be a cause?

I mean the conditions havent change for several days, maybe the temperature went up for 1-2 degrees, is 25 C to much ?

Thank you!


----------



## jointed (Feb 11, 2014)

firsttime2014 said:


> Hello!
> 
> I have attached a photo with a little one. 16 days old. didnt feed her until today with rhizotonic for the roots (the pic was taken before feeding). shouldnt be over-watering, I learned my lesson, leafes going down like this, but no more than that since yesterday. temperature around 25 C (77 F) at day, 22 at night. Humidity 30%, drops at night like 10%. I have an older one, the leafs are not down but not as pointy as they used to be.
> 
> ...


Your soil looks a little wet, let it dry till the pot feels light to the lift. This takes some time to master but by paying diligent attention to the details it should'nt take to long to master. As far as temps go 77 degrees is good to go. you might want to bump your humidity up some though, most prefer 55 - 60%. Let your girls tell you what they want. If their leaves are straight out from the stem and the pointed edges are flat with the leaf they are transpiring correctly. Take for example my room the temps range from 67 - 72 or so degrees and the humidity is usually around 75 - 80% and the girls are fat, happy and healthy. What works for me may not work for you, everyones grow is different. I/E, strain, environment, soil type, water source, and on and on. I think your plants look good....keep em green and keep on learning....lots to learn here. Peace and happy growing....J


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## firsttime2014 (Feb 12, 2014)

jointed said:


> Your soil looks a little wet, let it dry till the pot feels light to the lift. This takes some time to master but by paying diligent attention to the details it should'nt take to long to master. As far as temps go 77 degrees is good to go. you might want to bump your humidity up some though, most prefer 55 - 60%. Let your girls tell you what they want. If their leaves are straight out from the stem and the pointed edges are flat with the leaf they are transpiring correctly. Take for example my room the temps range from 67 - 72 or so degrees and the humidity is usually around 75 - 80% and the girls are fat, happy and healthy. What works for me may not work for you, everyones grow is different. I/E, strain, environment, soil type, water source, and on and on. I think your plants look good....keep em green and keep on learning....lots to learn here. Peace and happy growing....J


thanks for the answer!

the soil is wet because I took the picture after watering her, (wrong sentence in the first post) but the leafs looked like that before. I over-watered the bigger one in the beginning and since that point I water when I am sure the soil is dry.

I ll buy a humidifier and I think should do the trick... I read that under low humidity the stomata closes and that could be the cause...


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## jointed (Feb 12, 2014)

Can't read that bro, whatever language that is.


----------



## ilyaas123 (Feb 28, 2014)

https://www.rollitup.org/gardening/802658-join-me-i-grow-whole.html


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## papajohn (Mar 10, 2014)

yo ub why would insect pressure show same symptoms as overfertilizing?


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 12, 2014)

papajohn said:


> yo ub why would insect pressure show same symptoms as overfertilizing?


They both cause leaf necrosis.


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## lumbo (Mar 13, 2014)

Uncle Ben, I have been enlightened and sent on a quest for more basic knowledge in indoor horticulture due to reading this thread. Somewhere awhile back I have become lost. Your insistance that one cannot overwater due to wicking and drainage has me fascinated. This is an issue I have been struggling with as late. Promix just won't dry out fast enough for me and root systems are just not developing into what is needed to wick away the wetness. Things are good and then boom the trouble starts. Lockout symptoms appear and the dying begins. You have set me on a path to 
learn how to promote healthy root growth.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 13, 2014)

Once you master growing a plant, it really gets easy.


----------



## lilroach (Mar 13, 2014)

I can attest that it's difficult to over-water a mature plant....especially if you're using air-pots or smart-pots. I give each of my adult plants 1/2 gal of water/nutrients (in 5 gal containers) every day. I do this even with the pots are feeling heavy. If you look at any of my grows in my signature link you'll see the results of such feeding.

Nute lock-out is a tough one to diagnose. Depending on how far into flower you are, you may end up making drastic changes that end up doing more harm than good. Pictures and your feeding schedule including the nutrients and soil-type would help us help you.


----------



## qroox (Mar 14, 2014)

lilroach said:


> I can attest that it's difficult to over-water a mature plant....especially if you're using air-pots or smart-pots. I give each of my adult plants 1/2 gal of water/nutrients (in 5 gal containers) every day. I do this even with the pots are feeling heavy. If you look at any of my grows in my signature link you'll see the results of such feeding.
> 
> Nute lock-out is a tough one to diagnose. Depending on how far into flower you are, you may end up making drastic changes that end up doing more harm than good. Pictures and your feeding schedule including the nutrients and soil-type would help us help you.


Hey lil..!! I already ordered my jacks bloom food + dyna-gro's bloom food.I'll probably switch to 12/12 in 1-2 days ? I still want to let them go a little bigger.Besides that..All is good mate.Care to check my thread ? They're all green so far..Hard times will come ..this flowering period will be interesting


----------



## psychcannabis (Mar 15, 2014)

Hi i need help its my first grow and I'm having some problems with my plants 
I have researched so much and have come up with several theories can some one help much appreciated
Its an indoor grow with soil: Sta-Green all sourpuss potting mix with fertilizer .10-.08-.06
I'm growing with CFL my grow box is a little on the hot side temp between 85-90 mostly 90


----------



## psychcannabis (Mar 15, 2014)

could it be heat stress or boron deficiency for the burnt tips
I water every other day or when its a bit dry


----------



## noham (Mar 16, 2014)

psychcannabis said:


> Hi i need help its my first grow and I'm having some problems with my plants
> I have researched so much and have come up with several theories can some one help much appreciated
> Its an indoor grow with soil: Sta-Green all sourpuss potting mix with fertilizer .10-.08-.06
> I'm growing with CFL my grow box is a little on the hot side temp between 85-90 mostly 90
> View attachment 3023997View attachment 3023999View attachment 3024001View attachment 3024002View attachment 3024004


If you mean the "dirty" looking plant, I have one that started out the same.
It's now a compact bushy hobo of cannabis that is mainly just flowers. It's awesome and I wish I can make me some seeds somehow.
It's also at least 2 weeks ahead in flower development than another plant that grew out the same time.

It was no nutrient deficiency that caused it, it was genetical.


----------



## seanpaul sideproject (Mar 16, 2014)

This is freedom baby from TGA seeds. can anyone tell why the leaves are curling and the canopy is looking the way it is? i haunt added notes yet so can't get nitrogen abundance right. using high quality fox farm soils light warrior mixed with ocean. 1/3 light


----------



## papajohn (Mar 18, 2014)

psychcannabis said:


> could it be heat stress or boron deficiency for the burnt tips
> I water every other day or when its a bit dry


start over,your seedling vigor is already lost/stress.


----------



## noham (Mar 19, 2014)

seanpaul sideproject said:


> View attachment 3025014View attachment 3025017View attachment 3025017 This is freedom baby from TGA seeds. can anyone tell why the leaves are curling and the canopy is looking the way it is? i haunt added notes yet so can't get nitrogen abundance right. using high quality fox farm soils light warrior mixed with ocean. 1/3 light


You would have died not hijacking this thread.
Next time try making a thread.

, and I sure do hope nobody answers you. Shame on you!


----------



## Den Rider (Jun 1, 2014)

Uncle Ben said:


> First - identify the pest and decide on whether or not it is indeed harmful,
> 
> Two - if you're out on a kill mission, permethrins will do the job. You just have to follow the label.
> 
> ...


great info, and thanks for putting in the time to help us out...this 'hobby' becomes an obsession (at least for me) and seeing them go down is painful...what about 'Neem' I haven't used it yet but have ordered some on another's recommendation and great tip in the vertical cutting of the root ball, wish I had read that one last week...


----------



## Den Rider (Jun 1, 2014)

Uncle Ben said:


> I'm saying that soil is a powerful buffer and folks fritter over pH values too much, especially when it comes to their water's pH value.
> 
> I have heard this pH bullshit for 10 years, so I decided years ago I was going to conduct my own experiment. I took water adjusted to values of say.....4.5 and 9.2 and drenched pots of typical organic soil. Let it sit, and then tested the runoff. The only affect was short term. The long term affect, like an hour after watering, was negligible. This doesn't even address the baloney "lockouts" folk talk about.
> 
> ...


wow, way to take a stand...goes against all the info out there, but you know that already and have "Boldly Gone Where No Man Has Gone Before"...i dig it


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jun 2, 2014)

Never used Neem. Do a test branch before treating the whole branch.


----------



## DNA genetics amsterdam (Jun 3, 2014)

Hey can u please tell me what's wrong with my ladies?


Uncle Ben said:


> Never used Neem. Do a test branch before treating the whole branch.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jun 4, 2014)

DNA genetics amsterdam said:


> Hey can u please tell me what's wrong with my ladies?


Only if you tell me what you've done. Could be a dozen things.


----------



## DNA genetics amsterdam (Jun 4, 2014)

Uncle Ben said:


> Only if you tell me what you've done. Could be a dozen things.


I feed advance nutes conni a and b at 2 teaspoons per gallon b52 big bud bud candy at 1 per gallon I sprayed mighty wash a week back had a few mites so u think that could have done it? I have flushed since then what's my next move?


----------



## eekje (Jun 9, 2014)

DNA genetics amsterdam said:


> Hey can u please tell me what's wrong with my ladies?


I am not sure.. i have the exact same problem as you at the moment!! Will post pics later..
My PH is 5.8 , EC 1.6 week 4-5 flowering on coco. Day temp 29 celcius and night temp 21 celcius. Humidity 30% with lights on, 50% when off. Also my leaves got dark purple stems.


----------



## eekje (Jun 10, 2014)

here my pics, 1 of them is done with lights off... if anyone has any idea what it could be..


----------



## DrunkenRampage (Jun 12, 2014)

Uncle Ben said:


> They are reacting to a NPK that doesn't support healthy green leaves. Too much P and not enough N. It's typical of the cannabis trade.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree, waaaaay to many people just tend to throw out nitro during blooming


----------



## DrunkenRampage (Jun 12, 2014)

Kriegs said:


> Hey, UB.. I've got a LST question for you...
> 
> I didn't start any LST until my plants were 6 weeks old and just starting to pop flowers -- they're all about 30" tall and covered with pinky-nail sized popcorn buds. Just reticent as a noob to mess with them, more than anything. But, I started some gentle LST on them a week ago bending the top 6-8 inches over about 30-45 degrees. True to form, the side branches went nuts and quickly filled in the gaps, closing in a nice canopy at a not-perfectly but much better even distance from the light (400 HPS). I see a whole lot more hard bud in the future now than had I not, so I'm pleased.
> 
> ...


----------



## DrunkenRampage (Jun 12, 2014)

Jerry Garcia said:


> UB, thank you for your time. You entertain any question, even if the answer could be found with a minimal amount of reading/research by the individual. Much respect.
> 
> Not quite two weeks into my first grow, I have committed the cardinal sin of overwatering...though I blame it mostly on the Miracle Grow Organic potting soil I started with. Maybe with some perlite things could have been better, but it just retained too much moisture. I ditched the MG in favor of FF Ocean Forest and larger 5 1/2" square pots. They continue to produce new leaf growth every day or two, but some leaves still appear droopy.
> 
> ...


IMHO, FF does not have enough perlite, i always add more for better drainage


----------



## Dirf (Jun 14, 2014)

UB I was curious as if you could help figure out whats going on with these girls. I use Botanicare Pro Bloom, Silica Blast and Hydroplex and CALMAG. I have been going fairly easy on nutrients cause I really try not to burn them. One day I went to my grow room to check it and I discovered ONE of eight of my TGA Querkle upper and mid leaves turning yellow and browning. The two below pictures is the worst. Thinking it was a P or K deficiency I gave a few extra ML per gallon to try to help it out. Now I am having seconds thought as to thats whats wrong. I only water when they need it and I don't swamp them, I got the watering down I think.
This happened so fast!










Below you can see the second worst. Not as bad but who knows how little time it will take to look like the above one, considering the above one looked fine 3 days before this.










Thanks so much. Stay Happy.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jul 30, 2014)

Dirf said:


> UB I was curious as if you could help figure out whats going on with these girls. I use Botanicare Pro Bloom, Silica Blast and Hydroplex and CALMAG.


There's your problem, cannabis specific nutes. Big time N deficiency.


----------



## budman111 (Aug 1, 2014)

DNA genetics amsterdam said:


> I feed advance nutes conni a and b


Thats not doing your plant any good. Connoisseur is a ridiculous price, google 'prestige pricing'.


----------



## budman111 (Aug 1, 2014)

Uncle Ben said:


> There's your problem, cannabis specific nutes. Big time N deficiency.


Big time, but surely that cute cartoon character on the bottle label cant be dishonest?! lol


----------



## iNuGro (Aug 17, 2014)

Identical clones, side by side exact ame conditions. no worms, pests specs or anything like that. Any ideas? 

*I think that it is HEAT stress or MOISTURE stress? Not enough? I'm unsure.


----------



## mozarttea (Aug 19, 2014)

Uncle Ben said:


> Thanks Dirtfree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


is there anyway i could send a couple of pics in another reply and maybe get some help, i think i overwatered but not too sure?


----------



## Uncle Ben (Aug 19, 2014)

Looks like heat stress to me.


----------



## TripleMindedGee5150 (Sep 13, 2014)

Does this look like mold ? I have my answer made up. I want to see what all the "experts" and/or "experienced" think. I post this here because moisture produces mold right. ?


----------



## FrozenChozen (Sep 18, 2014)

TripleMindedGee5150 said:


> Does this look like mold ? I have my answer made up. I want to see what all the "experts" and/or "experienced" think. I post this here because moisture produces mold right. ? View attachment 3253015


Sir that is not mold, it cannabis...
*Cannabis* (/ˈkænəbɪs/) is a genus of flowering plants that includes three different species, _Cannabis sativa_, _Cannabis indica_ and _Cannabis ruderalis_


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## TripleMindedGee5150 (Sep 19, 2014)

FrozenChozen said:


> Sir that is not mold, it cannabis...
> *Cannabis* (/ˈkænəbɪs/) is a genus of flowering plants that includes three different species, _Cannabis sativa_, _Cannabis indica_ and _Cannabis ruderalis_


Ya I was being bipolar. I believe I was also had been drinking that day. Thanks for responding though. Peace


----------



## Tim MacIntyre (Oct 6, 2014)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> &#8220;Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!&#8221;, or, &#8220;My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?&#8221; Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the &#8220;solution&#8221; the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I&#8217;ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.
> 
> ...


That was a very awesome post thank you vital info learned here


----------



## Steelheader3430 (Dec 13, 2014)

Hey uncle Ben, a little off topic but I was hoping you would share your opinion on zamal. I've been eyeballing that strain for a while now.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 14, 2014)

Steelheader3430 said:


> Hey uncle Ben, a little off topic but I was hoping you would share your opinion on zamal. I've been eyeballing that strain for a while now.


I'd be skeptical it's pure. I'll give you the original email correspondence straight from the breeder living on La Reunion. I got it directly from him via Gypsy owner of IC Mag. The real zamal is pure sativa that has its origins in Africa funneled thru Madagascar & finally to La Reunion, an island of French lineage. Funny but just a couple of months ago I gifted my remaining beans to another grower. Had them about 10 years.

Message from Christophe to Uncle Ben,

I'll send you 1 picture of Zamal plant; (it's a plant on the left with color lights). It was 4 months old, but I cut him 2 months later. on the picture you can see only the half of the plant. I 'm very surprise because it's the first time I can see Zamal indoor and I wonder if Zamal is a good plant for indoor. I live in Réunion island and the average temperature in the year is 26°; we can breed outdoor all the year; I never plant indoor.


Few precisions about Zamal (not Zamaal): This sativa (100%) was imported from Madagascar 200 years ago with slaves. Her degree of THC is between 15 and 30% (there are few qualities),

she is very powerfull and she unsticked the head of many old smokers. She has a good ratio (naturely): 9 females for 1 male; Her florewing begins between 8 and 12 weeks; but in winter (24° the day, 18° the night) it's not uncommon to cut the plant after 7 or 8 months; here few growers wait 1 year and sometimes more. I smile when you are afraid by 17 weeks of grow; sure it's expensive, but may be it's early to cut her. How many hours she is under the ligths by day? Sure it's a long time to grow in comparison with indica, but it's difficult to comparate this 2 plants (florewing, heigt, yield...)

Harvest depend of the heigt,but usually she is between 800 grs and 1 kg (dry) for average heigt of 3 meters, some plants can exceed 4 or 5 meters, with trunk of 15 cm of diameter! (I have a friend, he installed a swing on his plant)

Zamal is strongest than Durban poison or Malawi gold and more than many indica. She has not a strong odor (except when you smoke) usually her odor is carot-mango but depend the quality, her odor is less than indica. Buds are smallers than indica buds but biggers than your production. Outdoor she needs not too much water and she can grow in altitude (1500m). Usually she lives in volcanic earth and in fact she can grow in acid earth (PH: 5,6) In general she is resistant but she is kept fungus and ant. At all she needs a good sun. 

But like I said, I haven't indoor experience and I wonder if Zamal indoor gives you the same quality than outdoor. If you want accelerate florewing, mix Zamal with indica; ex: Afghani special (male) x Zamal=florewing in 6 weeks.

Excuse my english and if you can talk in french, that's better.

Friendly, Christophe.


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## Izoc666 (Dec 14, 2014)

Zamal is definitely treasure !

Thanks for sharing the history of this strain, Tio Ben.


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## Steelheader3430 (Dec 20, 2014)

Thanks UB!


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## Sire Killem All (Jan 10, 2015)

think i got a pic of some low humidity problems.been opening a window to let in some fresh air, didnt bother watching humidity. past 2 days i have gotten a low of 10% and a high of 33% RH. the only changes before it started was new location, and went from 400w MH to 2x400w HPS. will try and a pic with them all in it. added 4 plants in good health after this started and they are starting to show slight symptoms now too.


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 10, 2015)

If they have a good root system and you have been watering properly you shouldn't be having that problem.

Are the lights too close?


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## terestrialextra (Jan 11, 2015)

sativa , veg22(days) flo42 , 4 weeks more to go , 0.5ml/l algoflash 9-4-6 every watering. tap water (hard), and some leaching had been done (two times , half the volume of pot each ) but no water throwing at the usual waterings .

*The problem*: 1/3 of the leaves , starting from bottom, are complitly yellow (but no deformation). like this http://www.uk420.com/boards/uploads/1360701325/gallery_74334_5050_29879.jpg
Till about flo27 the plant had no yallowing and it was very vibrant (and still is (except the fan leaves))

There were some low temperatures at the week from flo29 to flo36, lowest at about 14-15 C.

Any thoughts on that ?


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 11, 2015)

Algoflash sucks


----------



## terestrialextra (Jan 12, 2015)

So bad ? ... I thought the ratio was ok (with some micros) , also mandalas said it is decent ... thats why. I was aiming to Jacks or Dyna but i couldnt find anything at the time.

You say it is possible that the spesific fertilizer could be inadequate for sustaining healthy growth? why so ?

One question about Jacks (that im planning to buy):
"(Jacks site)For best results, use warm or hot water (180 F°)".
If the water is cold tap water , is it necessary to let the solution rest for some hours or its fine
to water the plants after some good agitation ?


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 12, 2015)

I bought Algoflash based on the hype. What I got was a bottle of "rocks". In fact, other than Dyna-Gro Fo-Pro I've stayed away from liquid foods. Just had too many problems with them. DG's Bloom will also drop precips. Jacks is totally soluble and yes can be used immediately. Don't need hot water unless you're dissolving a huge amount for irrigation injection. This is the best bang for the buck - http://www.amazon.com/77900-Performance-Fertilizer-25-5-15-25-Pound/dp/B008JSIKCU/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_1


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## terestrialextra (Jan 12, 2015)

*20-20-20* or 
*27-15-12*(http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jack-s-Professional/Jack-s-Pro/Specialty-Crop-Formulas/27-15-12-Foliar-Feed.html)

wich one better from start to finish (*only these 2 are near to me*)

Im thinking of 20-20-20 , combined with ammonium sulfate occasionally.

Your link has some 5-1-3 (25-5-15). Isn't it unballanced for cannabis ? I mean nitrogen is 5 times the phoshorus

Thank you


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 12, 2015)

As it should be. https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-never-ending-abuse-of-phosphorous-bloom-foods-to-enhance-flowering.158144/

I grow excellent pot with a slow release 18-3-9. Just bought a 25 lb. bag of Jack's 20-3-19.

I'd go with the 27-15-12 or the 20-20-20 with am. sulfate.


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## terestrialextra (Jan 19, 2015)

Hi Uncle Ben ,

i ve read that you use and recomend air pots. By your eperience with them , is there any specific advise you would give on using them (about watering, handling , dry channels... or anything) or it is more or less like using common pots? And as a rule of thumb, you would say that it needs to be about 2/3 of the volume of an ordinary pot ?

i searched about the thread you mention that the subject of air pots is "etensivly discused" but i couldnt find it.


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## Sagethisplanet (Jan 22, 2015)

I. Use smart pots and get great results. Stops. Root circulation and provides air to the roots easier. U an see the roots one out the side I you do a good job. Unlike UB, I don't slow feed as of yet, would Iike to, Sri ok working a recipe up. Air pots oje in all shapes and forms, some have bigger holes or channels, etc... There is a lot in this rum about them. Unle Ben, what do you think slow feed provides the plant that is most benificial? I was thinking that they get to eat when they want, not when given food in water....using water feed now, love the results, I just know that a slow release food of water only has tobe the best way to get denser flowers. Any suggestions? Ising 5 gallon smart pots and indoor, environment is perfect, 8th grow and getting better each time, just getting low on food and time to move on, wanna Scrog next and see what happens. Ever do that, any tips?


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 22, 2015)

terestrialextra said:


> Hi Uncle Ben ,
> 
> i ve read that you use and recomend air pots. By your eperience with them , is there any specific advise you would give on using them (about watering, handling , dry channels... or anything) or it is more or less like using common pots? And as a rule of thumb, you would say that it needs to be about 2/3 of the volume of an ordinary pot ?
> 
> i searched about the thread you mention that the subject of air pots is "etensivly discused" but i couldnt find it.


Strange, I wrote a response a couple of days ago and it never posted. Anyway....the most foolproof system is copper hydroxide additives to latex paint. MicroKote is such a product.

I use Rootbuilder. Only thing I don't like about it is the tendency of water to run outside of the pot rather than thru it. You do have to be careful of dry channels, water well.

I use encapsulated foods mainly because of the maintenance thingie and yes, plants do like some nutrition all the time, witness hydro.


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## Sagethisplanet (Jan 22, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> Strange, I wrote a response a couple of days ago and it never posted. Anyway....the most foolproof system is copper hydroxide additives to latex paint. MicroKote is such a product.
> 
> I use Rootbuilder. Only thing I don't like about it is the tendency of water to run outside of the pot rather than thru it. You do have to be careful of dry channels, water well.
> 
> I use encapsulated foods mainly because of the maintenance thingie and yes, plants do like some nutrition all the time, witness hydro.


UB,

Have you tried smart pots? Did you find something about them that you don't like? Think the roobuilders are better for a 5 gallon? And the slow feed, what do you use, jacks or something simple like that? I was thinking going veganic using guano and all that just have to dial it into coco somehow. Blood meal, bone meal, and guano when necessary, for flower, think that would do well? Do you use any root stims? Just wondering, always want to improve and nothing like hearing from good ole Unle Ben!


----------



## easton 007 (Jan 22, 2015)

Hey Uncle Ben you think you might be able to help me out with this?
On week two of flushing and I noticed the buds closer to the top of the plant feel like they are drying out as well as the stems all over the plant are brittle. The bud feels a lot denser/harder toward the top on two of my plants but the other two are soft and less dense feeling. The rest of the leaves are a dark green and the plant looks healthy other than this concern. Flushing with water filtered with an RO filter and pH'd correctly. The humidity in the room is 22% right now. Wondering if anyone knows what could be causing this issue? Or if this is a normal process when flushing at the end stage of flowering? Any help will be great! Thanks


----------



## pineappleman420 (Jan 22, 2015)

you answered your own question with in your question... Dont flush unless you've wiped too.


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 23, 2015)

Sagethisplanet said:


> UB,
> 
> Have you tried smart pots? Did you find something about them that you don't like? Think the roobuilders are better for a 5 gallon? And the slow feed, what do you use, jacks or something simple like that? I was thinking going veganic using guano and all that just have to dial it into coco somehow. Blood meal, bone meal, and guano when necessary, for flower, think that would do well? Do you use any root stims? Just wondering, always want to improve and nothing like hearing from good ole Unle Ben!


Never tried SmartPots. Aren't they a bit expensive compared to RootMaker? I grow tropical fruit trees in a greenhouse, reason why I make/use very large bottomless RootBuilder pots.

Used plenty of organics. Just try to understand what the nutrient charge will be. 

I use a custom blend of Polyon or you can use Osmocote or one of the other products.

No flushing, it's another dumb cannabis forum myth that will never die.


----------



## avnewb (Jan 23, 2015)

Some of my plants are having some issues and im trying to tack them down...
Not sure if my hard water is an issue (212mg/L) or sodium (350mg/L) is too high.


I think it may be lack of water and nutes but wondering if I should mix my water with distilled 50/50 for now.


EDIT:
There is a softner system that could be the main issue. All I know so far is all my well water goes thru it and it flushes itself too often. 
I have been trying to figure out what it is but plan is to bypass it and get water tested again and go from there. 
Not sure how it work but I have added no salt or anything to it.

Figured I would install a RO in kitchen but be nice to have good water out of the sharkbit T I installed in the grow room.


My issues may just be lack of nutes or water or too much water IDK. I have them in 17g pots with lots of holes drilled in bottom.

Each pot as 1.5cuft of FFOF mixed with 2 gallons of large perlite and 1 cup dolimite lime.

I am under eight DIY Cree CXA3070 LEDs about 1ft or more above canopy. Not ideal light for veg but swiching things up soon.

Temps go to 77 and drop to 65. I have it on 18/6 now but was on 24/0 (I realize 24/0 was not ideal and wish I had not done it as its now a list of issues/possible issues.

Been veging for 11 weeks, been in the FFOF for 7 weeks and am just starting to use nutes this week (FF trio for now). I prob should have started earlier as had issues for a while but wonder if was just not giving enough water or what...

I have not over watered but because pot size takes 1+ gallons to saturate the soil so it takes a very long time for them to dry out. I have gone a week without watering but again maybe let get too dry or maybe there not drying fast enough and getting root rot. IDK.

But seems some are not taking in the water as fast as they should as if wet for that long could have root rot so plan to use less water from now on.

ANyways, you can see all have burn on tips. 

One is sad. 
 

 

 



I have too many pics but here is first of the others (rest in next post):




this one started later and is different seed:


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## avnewb (Jan 23, 2015)

More of the other 4 that all show burt tip and some other stuff, but not as bad the one that is in the worst shape above:


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## avnewb (Jan 23, 2015)

sorry too a bunch of pics and coulnt narrow down. 6 plants total.


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## Sagethisplanet (Jan 24, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> Never tried SmartPots. Aren't they a bit expensive compared to RootMaker? I grow tropical fruit trees in a greenhouse, reason why I make/use very large bottomless RootBuilder pots.
> 
> Used plenty of organics. Just try to understand what the nutrient charge will be.
> 
> ...



Same never tried the root maker. The smart pot may be a lil pricey. But I've had nothing but amazing results, might get more air in the rootbuilder. Dunno....

Yea got what is needed plus Amazite and all so once dialed in be awesome. Slow feed on real food. Should work out with the homework And plenty of that has been done. 

Running coco now and love it. Have a 600 blue hort and 400 hort, have the Lumex on the way. 

Gonna replace that w e start mh then to 1000w shps. 

The 2 light setup is rad tho can move to where needed most. 

I'll try the rootbuilder as need to get small for clones then go to 5 gal. Just seems to stunt the growth at first. Seems a smaller starter would be best. 


Thanks again and any advice would rule. N dude got P def looks like but can't. Just can't. Rust and the dark coloration. Any idea why that could happen to one nine others?

Happy and be easy


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## terestrialextra (Jan 24, 2015)

Sagethisplanet said:


> But I've had nothing but amazing results


Did you have any problems to solve about transportation with the smarts ? How do you manage not to destroy the roots?

Or are they stable and it not so much of a problem ?


Thank you


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## Sagethisplanet (Jan 24, 2015)

L


avnewb said:


> sorry too a bunch of pics and coulnt narrow down. 6





terestrialextra said:


> Did you have any problems to solve about transportation with the smarts ? How do you manage not to destroy the roots?
> 
> Or are they stable and it not so much of a problem ?
> 
> ...


never had a problem


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## Sagethisplanet (Jan 24, 2015)

terestrialextra said:


> Did you have any problems to solve about transportation with the smarts ? How do you manage not to destroy the roots?
> 
> Or are they stable and it not so much of a problem ?
> 
> ...


Never had any issues at all with them other than using the black ones. Get the tan ones. I use 5 gal. Put rooted clones right in there with great white and water at 5.8-6 ph. The roots don't get hurt, how do you mean transportation? I don't drive around with them... They get rotated daily and just fill most the way up to keep sturdy. If you want di from seedling in a solo cup to a 1 gal then after established roots go to the5 gal or bigger. They are awesome. No root circulation more air to the roots, easy to tell when to water by the weight Def remember that. U can even feed to runoff even and just remember to dry the bottom so they don't sit in water. That would be no good. 

What do you mean by transporting and how would the roots get ruined? I guess I'm just a little confused as to what you mean. I've never had any issues.


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## terestrialextra (Jan 24, 2015)

I meant every day you pick them up to throw the runoff , or the three-four times someone puts them in a larger container for sublingual watering (eliminating dry channels) or leaching (decrease salt content in the rootzone). Ok, you say its not a problem


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 25, 2015)

terestrialextra said:


> I meant every day you pick them up to throw the runoff , or the three-four times someone puts them in a larger container for sublingual watering (eliminating dry channels) or leaching (decrease salt content in the rootzone). Ok, you say its not a problem


It is a problem, at least to me if you're moving them because every time you pick up those pliable pots you're taking the chance of damaging fragile root hairs.


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## terestrialextra (Jan 25, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> It is a problem, at least to me if you're moving them because every time you pick up those pliable pots you're taking the chance of damaging fragile root hairs.


Yes , thats why i was thinking something like that ,with or without some tulle http://cdn.65emall.com/Content/Image/Product/x/232/013140.jpg .

I think it'll work fine. It is cheep , steady , and wide open for air pruning and cooling.


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## Sagethisplanet (Jan 29, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> Never tried SmartPots. Aren't they a bit expensive compared to RootMaker? I grow tropical fruit trees in a greenhouse, reason why I make/use very large bottomless RootBuilder pots.
> 
> Used plenty of organics. Just try to understand what the nutrient charge will be.
> 
> ...


No flushing? Don't you want to get all the nutrients out for taste and burn?


----------



## Sagethisplanet (Jan 29, 2015)

terestrialextra said:


> I meant every day you pick them up to throw the runoff , or the three-four times someone puts them in a larger container for sublingual watering (eliminating dry channels) or leaching (decrease salt content in the rootzone). Ok, you say its not a problem


I don't go to run off. Too much water imo. Just enough is enough. When the leaves are happy the plant is as well. I read each plant, so I ant really say what exactly I do, each one has its own feed. May seem like more work, but that's ok. It's really not cause you know there will be no issues down the road. 

Having issues now only cause I got some ready to go into flower and some that need more veg, have to make a room for each, got jacky white, Hawaiian snow and C13 going, all take diff feed. The Hawaiian snow is Maui waui x snow cap, the c13 is Cindy99 z. G13 and the jacks white is jack herrer and white widow, from what I can tell. Tough to get going, the Cindy are topped and really stressed her out. 

But never do I water to runoff as I think that's too much Aqua and a waste of feed if using a liquid feed, although going veganic when liquids are gone. Plus the roots must suck IFG can't even pick up the container, I rotate a quarter circle everyday to mimic the movement of the sun, to a degree, I never even thought that the roots would get effected, and I have em coming out the container, it's 5 gal, 

The root builder was more monies I think, unless that was somethng different, I forget. 

What is the benefit of water to runoff? Use coco and perlite with some peat moss. 
I think that going to runoff would promote root rot.... Too much water and drown them. I like to make the roots work to the water and what they need so they grow strong and durable. 

Only tranfer once, maybe 2 times, pending on what's going on. 


So no probs with that.... What are benefits of runoff UB? There not so pliable when full of medium, actually sturdy! And if have to lift do so carefully that's all...
Might "amend" them next time around, putting more holes in bottom, bigger ones, have a soil oh tester so that helps. And just keep it at 5.8-6.2 It depends on what the plant needs and I change the ph accordingly, 

Any advise from the UB is advise worth trying as he's ha some good yeilds. From pics seen,,,, 

The runoff thing really has me, just don't understand why to do that....?


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 30, 2015)

Sagethisplanet said:


> No flushing? Don't you want to get all the nutrients out for taste and burn?


What nutrients? Once the plant uptakes they don't just remain as they were introduced. They are broken down into ions. The plant isn't a car radiator. You can't flush it.


----------



## Sagethisplanet (Jan 30, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> What nutrients? Once the plant uptakes they don't just remain as they were introduced. They are broken down into ions. The plant isn't a car radiator. You can't flush it.


Ok, that makes sense, the plant used all the nutrients so there is nothing left to flush out....gotcha UB your a knowledgeable person in horticulture that's for sure. What about to recycle the medium? Should the medium (coco) be flush to clean it for another use?

Thanks again,


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 31, 2015)

I recycle but only to a veg garden. By the time you're harvesting there's no telling what kind of fungus gnat larvae, eggs, and such are in that soil. I don't do coir. It's not worth the expense as I buy the parts in bulk and mix my own.


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## Sagethisplanet (Jan 31, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> I recycle but only to a veg garden. By the time you're harvesting there's no telling what kind of fungus gnat larvae, eggs, and such are in that soil. I don't do coir. It's not worth the expense as I buy the parts in bulk and mix my own.


Right on , thanks. Didn't think of that. Even if YA have no pest problems?


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## Sagethisplanet (Jan 31, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> What nutrients? Once the plant uptakes they don't just remain as they were introduced. They are broken down into ions. The plant isn't a car radiator. You can't flush it.


So does it matter what nutrients YA use? Sounds like all the main lines just keep adding more stuff so you buy it, thinking it'll make the yeild double or something. I was reading that lumens have nothing to do with growth, it's more about the PAR that matters. Do you grow outside of indoors? Just curious as if you are outdoors, the lights are not really your fortay. Back a few years ago I was on this forum under another name and you were on it, remembered the advise you gave back then and it has helped sinse.


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 31, 2015)

If you have to recycle then be safe, sanitize the soil with heat first.

I only grow outdoors. It's too easy peasy.


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## Sagethisplanet (Feb 1, 2015)

That's where the flower belongs! The great outdoors! Full year or just one harvest a year? Must have a green house or something rad to keep YA going, What strains are you going right now?


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## Sagethisplanet (Feb 1, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> If you have to recycle then be safe, sanitize the soil with heat first.
> 
> I only grow outdoors. It's too easy peasy.


Yea I read 400 degrees Fahrenheit is the temp that kils anything that could be bad. Want to go veganic, they are calling it, where just water is added to a mix that is custom. I have the correct amendments, going to take some trial and error so I have a 5 gal a 1 gal and a solo clone going now in a medium I made to see if it's good enought for the plant, Want quality. Quality is what it's all about!!!!


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## Sagethisplanet (Feb 1, 2015)

UB, for the first time Seeing what looks like P def. Purple spots and twisting. Should flush or go with a guano tea? Thinking flush first then stabilize, if that doesn't work add the guano tea.... Wanna start flower and can't witha P def, Need the P to create the flowers to their ma potential. It's not super bad but bad enough to ask for help!!!

Pce


----------



## Sagethisplanet (Feb 1, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> What nutrients? Once the plant uptakes they don't just remain as they were introduced. They are broken down into ions. The plant isn't a car radiator. You can't flush it.


h and G. Used before and never had any problem, seeing what looks like a P def and some burn, have the purple spots and browning around the edges of even newer growth. Very strange......n ver had this issue before, was thinking just water for a bit to stabilize then if need be do a guano tea to get some P in there before 12/12. 

Really don't know what's. Up heree.....genetics...... Clones o clones...... Miss the seeds,,,, 

What do you think would be the best solution so there is no more damage done? 

Thanks UB


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 1, 2015)

Recommend Mel Frank's "MJ Insiders Growers Guide" from Amazon.


----------



## Sagethisplanet (Feb 1, 2015)

Yea read that already, been a few years, but read it. A good one. Indeed


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## Sagethisplanet (Feb 1, 2015)

Sagethisplanet said:


> Yea read that already, been a few years, but read it. A good one. Indeed


Maybe that's a new one from Mel, I'll check it. Thanks


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## oprincezzo (Feb 27, 2015)

I just bought my clones 5 days ago but and i put them in soil that cantains guano and stuff some of the plants didnt look to happy when i bought them but today i noticed that a few leaves at the very tip are brown.can anyone help me find out why if you read the tread newby growing blue dream u can see my pics when i bought them and put them in the pot if u read everything i posted and replayed to people u can see what im using.thank u


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## Sagethisplanet (Feb 28, 2015)

oprincezzo said:


> I just bought my clones 5 days ago but and i put them in soil that cantains guano and stuff some of the plants didnt look to happy when i bought them but today i noticed that a few leaves at the very tip are brown.can anyone help me find out why if you read the tread newby growing blue dream u can see my pics when i bought them and put them in the pot if u read everything i posted and replayed to people u can see what im using.thank u


Where do you buy clones, in Denver or Washington.


----------



## Sagethisplanet (Feb 28, 2015)

oprincezzo said:


> I just bought my clones 5 days ago but and i put them in soil that cantains guano and stuff some of the plants didnt look to happy when i bought them but today i noticed that a few leaves at the very tip are brown.can anyone help me find out why if you read the tread newby growing blue dream u can see my pics when i bought them and put them in the pot if u read everything i posted and replayed to people u can see what im using.thank u


Where on the plant are the tips of leafes brown? Top bottom or lower foilage? That would help determine the issue.


----------



## oprincezzo (Feb 28, 2015)

Im


Sagethisplanet said:


> Where do you buy clones, in Denver or Washington.


Im In California i buy them here


----------



## Sagethisplanet (Feb 28, 2015)

oprincezzo said:


> Im
> 
> Im In California i buy them here


I'm in ca too. The dispensaries around don't sell clones. Sucks


----------



## oprincezzo (Feb 28, 2015)

Sagethisplanet said:


> Where on the plant are the tips of leafes brown? Top bottom or lower foilage? That would help determine the issue.


If u go to newby growing blue dream towards the end of the tread i have pics of the brown parts on a few leaves and they are on top and bottom and fan leaves


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## oprincezzo (Feb 28, 2015)

I


Sagethisplanet said:


> I'm in ca too. The dispensaries around don't sell clones. Sucks


Im N stockton the sell clones here and i hear that in Oakland they have better clones


----------



## Sagethisplanet (Feb 28, 2015)

oprincezzo said:


> If u go to newby growing blue dream towards the end of the tread i have pics of the brown parts on a few leaves and they are on top and bottom and fan leaves


Heat stress or nite toxicity.


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## Sagethisplanet (Feb 28, 2015)

Nute,,,,,,


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## oprincezzo (Feb 28, 2015)

Sagethisplanet said:


> Heat stress or nite toxicity.


What do u mean by night toxicity


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## Sagethisplanet (Feb 28, 2015)

Nute toxicity, too many nutrients, you could be burning the plants with too muh nutrients, maybe scale bak a little, don't go by some gude to the T, use as a guide and also remember that ALL plants are different, doesn't matter if same mother plant, all plats rear different to different situations and a react diff to different nutes. What type of nutrients are you using and is it hydro soil or soiless?


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## Sagethisplanet (Feb 28, 2015)

Heat stress would just be if your plants are too close to the light, meaning the canopy is too lose to the light. Rule of. Thumb, put you hand right above the canopy or a minute or so, if it's not hot or warm you r good, if it is, raise the lights!


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## oprincezzo (Feb 28, 2015)

Sagethisplanet said:


> Nute toxicity, too many nutrients, you could be burning the plants with too muh nutrients, maybe scale bak a little, don't go by some gude to the T, use as a guide and also remember that ALL plants are different, doesn't matter if same mother plant, all plats rear different to different situations and a react diff to different nutes. What type of nutrients are you using and is it hydro soil or soiless?


 I just got the clones a week ago and i havnt no nutes in it yet the place were i bought the soil told me to wait a week or two the soil im using is from fox farm called ocean fosest.


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## oprincezzo (Feb 28, 2015)

Sagethisplanet said:


> Heat stress would just be if your plants are too close to the light, meaning the canopy is too lose to the light. Rule of. Thumb, put you hand right above the canopy or a minute or so, if it's not hot or warm you r good, if it is, raise the lights!


Its not hot when i put my hand


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## RockinDaGanja (Mar 3, 2015)

Night toxicity....that is when You tell one person were your plants are and they tell someone else then at night they come and steal your plants.


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## Sagethisplanet (Mar 4, 2015)

Night........ M ah yes


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## Sagethisplanet (Mar 4, 2015)

How are the cones doing?
Maybe the pH is off....
5.5 is cool for clones


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## SweetestCheeba (Mar 8, 2015)

Hey guys i have 3 GSC bagseeds under a 250w hps in 2L bottles and have been FIMed. the top nodes leaves are deforming. is this from a lack of oxygen to the roots or overwatering. thanks in advance


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## Kind Sir (Mar 8, 2015)

The bigger plant is 9 days old afgani, no nutes used.
the smaller plant with the curled leaves i used root acceleration and the roots are comingout of the bottom already well before any other plants!

House and garden root acceleration


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## atomic_nebula (Mar 23, 2015)

I read all your valuable comments and I'm very impressed to see such a great spirit towards growing.

I'm a noob and appreciate if someone can drop an advice as I have a bit of a heat problem, my grow is inside a cabinet (haven't grow yet, just finished up building it) and would really like to avoid those mistakes, as getting seeds around here is unbelievably hard task. 

would 32c be alright? i expect to water more often with this temperature, it's just that my LED releases a lot of heat (720w) but i can switch it to 360w. I know it's a lot of test & trial but is there a recommended ratio per pot size somewhere? I'm planning on growing 3 plants in 30l airpots (fabric)

I have S&P 160 not sure that it's able to exhaust the heat quickly enough, 4" grill on back of the rack for intake with filter.

thanks!


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## Shastafarian (Apr 4, 2015)

Kind Sir said:


> The bigger plant is 9 days old afgani, no nutes used.
> the smaller plant with the curled leaves i used root acceleration and the roots are comingout of the bottom already well before any other plants!
> 
> House and garden root acceleration


Very nice Kind Sir, so where did the Afghan seeds come from?


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## Kind Sir (Apr 4, 2015)

Herbies. The plants are much bigger now im on day 35,check my journal out.


https://www.rollitup.org/t/my-grow-report.862706/page-8


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## Cunning stunt (May 16, 2015)

OneHit said:


> What signs to plant exhibit if they are in a low humidity environment? My plants RH is 16-20% And I read thats way too low


 don't listen to a lot of peoples comments - I've had 14% humidity and if it gets that low supply c02 bags  it gives the plant a boost plus brings humidty up !


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## estee (May 30, 2015)

My plant is still in veg state, I water spray it everyday, I have a meter that tell me when to water the roots, but I noticed the leaves are curling under and they feel crispy, am I spraying it too often, or should I stop spraying them all together, I also noticed some mold starting and I'm spaying it with milk until I can get the neem oil, is milk helpful or is that just a myth


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## RockinDaGanja (May 30, 2015)

I would cut back on foilage spraying. I wouldn't spray milk on my plants it has a tendancy to spoil which is probably why you have mold. As far as watering lift your container and see how heavy it is when freshly watered then let your soil dry out and see how lite it is then you have an idea of how much those girls are drinking. I would spray one more time with distilled water and neem oil. Then cut back to twice a week depending on humidity how they respond.


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## RockinDaGanja (May 30, 2015)

Once your in veg for a few weeks you can foilage spray even once a week. I used to be real trigger happy with foilar spray because they look so nice and lush after a nice mist. Now once in the morning if i can get in there before the lights and once at night once every two weeks with AACT (bubbled EWC and 2ml a gallon of thrive alive green b1 it has three different types of kelp extract.) And it is omri listed. My outdoor plants get the same thing except a couple more teas/sprays for pest management.
I got al


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## estee (May 30, 2015)

RockinDaGanja said:


> Once your in veg for a few weeks you can foilage spray even once a week. I used to be real trigger happy with foilar spray because they look so nice and lush after a nice mist. Now once in the morning if i can get in there before the lights and once at night once every two weeks with AACT (bubbled EWC and 2ml a gallon of thrive alive green b1 it has three different types of kelp extract.) And it is omri listed. My outdoor plants get the same thing except a couple more teas/sprays for pest management.
> I got al


Thank you for you quick response, I'll get the neem oil and spray her once a week, and no milk


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## OG Gardenz (May 30, 2015)

I would throw some Yucca in with that foliar spray, it is a natural surfactant has saponins, sugars and micros...

Yucca extracts are taking the place of copper sulfate in much of Europe to help prevent and treat fungal diseases such as apple scab. 

The sugars are a stable form of carbon making it an excellent food source for microbes, ideal for brewing teas.


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## estee (May 31, 2015)

But how do you use the yucca


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## RockinDaGanja (Aug 1, 2015)

estee said:


> But how do you use the yucca


You can buy yucca extracts. They also have food grade extracts but I'm not sure if its worth it to try and experiment with dilution rates. I really couldnt tell you if it's making a huge difference. I can tell you that it's not hurting them.
P.s. this it's the only kind I've tried if anyone is rockin a better one let me know. I know some good soils that have composted yucca in them. Would you be able to make your own yucca foilar with conposted yucca?

http://stores.indoorgrowsource.com/vermaplex-liquid-yucca-quart/?gclid=CjwKEAjw3PGtBRCWgajpu_uY9hYSJAAICRalyRIy1yeqTGmhqKOuaLEyih6L2ne41el4XMOMUFcf7RoCujnw_wcB


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## estee (Aug 1, 2015)

RockinDaGanja said:


> You can buy yucca extracts. They also have food grade extracts but I'm not sure if its worth it to try and experiment with dilution rates. I really couldnt tell you if it's making a huge difference. I can tell you that it's not hurting them.
> P.s. this it's the only kind I've tried if anyone is rockin a better one let me know. I know some good soils that have composted yucca in them. Would you be able to make your own yucca foilar with conposted yucca?
> 
> http://stores.indoorgrowsource.com/vermaplex-liquid-yucca-quart/?gclid=CjwKEAjw3PGtBRCWgajpu_uY9hYSJAAICRalyRIy1yeqTGmhqKOuaLEyih6L2ne41el4XMOMUFcf7RoCujnw_wcB


Thanks RockinDaGanja, I bought some Bat Guano and compost and made a tea, the plant loved it, it looks great, I haven't added anything else but I'm interested in trying the Yucca, what if I just boil some yucca root and use the water, would that work as well? It's worth a try, can't hurt right, thanks again


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## RockinDaGanja (Aug 1, 2015)

estee said:


> Thanks RockinDaGanja, I bought some Bat Guano and compost and made a tea, the plant loved it, it looks great, I haven't added anything else but I'm interested in trying the Yucca, what if I just boil some yucca root and use the water, would that work as well? It's worth a try, can't hurt right, thanks again


There are a few different ways to extract it but i think they use a cold press method for the stuff I have but boiling it and adding it to your teas wouldnt hurt. 
It would also be good to frement them probabley and make a tea with them. Not sure. Very interesting stuff though. Im still pretty new to organics but I love it so far.


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## estee (Aug 1, 2015)

RockinDaGanja said:


> There are a few different ways to extract it but i think they use a cold press method for the stuff I have but boiling it and adding it to your teas wouldnt hurt.
> It would also be good to frement them probabley and make a tea with them. Not sure. Very interesting stuff though. Im still pretty new to organics but I love it so far.


Me too, I love organics, so far I haven't had any nut burn of deficiencies of any kind, but I'm curious about the yucca, I'll have to try it, thanks


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## Don Geno (Aug 2, 2015)

I got a case of stunted growth maybe from heat been light spraying and added nutes today its an alphadawg from alphakronik seeds any idea? Or maybe quit misting it babying it everyday its real small compared to my other plant


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## estee (Aug 3, 2015)

Don Geno said:


> I got a case of stunted growth maybe from heat been light spraying and added nutes today its an alphadawg from alphakronik seeds any idea? Or maybe quit misting it babying it everyday its real small compared to my other plant





Don Geno said:


> I got a case of stunted growth maybe from heat been light spraying and added nutes today its an alphadawg from alphakronik seeds any idea? Or maybe quit misting it babying it everyday its real small compared to my other plant


Give it some time Don, they're still babies, they'll start growing soon, same thing happened to me but be careful how much of the nutes you use, they look too young for too much, I usually don't start giving them nutes until they're at least 3 weeks old and I give it very little, misting is good though they love that


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## Don Geno (Aug 3, 2015)

estee said:


> Give it some time Don, they're still babies, they'll start growing soon, same thing happened to me but be careful how much of the nutes you use, they look too young for too much, I usually don't start giving them nutes until they're at least 3 weeks old and I give it very little, misting is good though they love that


This is just the first strain ive ever had just sit there with no growth and no sign of stress kind of weird to me .. I just started to germ one from the spring mix promo so we will see how that goes


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## new007789 (Aug 20, 2015)

Hey, Uncle Ben -- here's a question for you:

how can i grow best plant ?


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## pineappleman420 (Sep 21, 2015)

new007789 said:


> Hey, Uncle Ben -- here's a question for you:
> 
> how can i grow best plant ?


Listen to your plants... they will tell you what They need and when they need it. Grow it like you would any other plant. DO LOTS OF READING... I'd Start here...https://www.rollitup.org/t/noob-advice.277820/


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## RockinDaGanja (Sep 22, 2015)

Set your timer every day for an hour and play your plants their favorite Jamz. I find sativas like reggae music and indica dominant plants like music with a little more Middle Eastern flair. Just kidding Read.Read some more and then just do it. Like anything else on the job training is the best training. And if you learn some cool shit let me know. BecauseI've been doing this for a while and I still learn a thing or two every day peace good luck


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## RockinDaGanja (Sep 22, 2015)

Oh yea remember it's just a fucking plant. Don't love it to death


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## OG Gardenz (Sep 24, 2015)

RockinDaGanja said:


> You can buy yucca extracts. They also have food grade extracts but I'm not sure if its worth it to try and experiment with dilution rates. I really couldnt tell you if it's making a huge difference. I can tell you that it's not hurting them.
> P.s. this it's the only kind I've tried if anyone is rockin a better one let me know. I know some good soils that have composted yucca in them. Would you be able to make your own yucca foilar with conposted yucca?
> 
> http://stores.indoorgrowsource.com/vermaplex-liquid-yucca-quart/?gclid=CjwKEAjw3PGtBRCWgajpu_uY9hYSJAAICRalyRIy1yeqTGmhqKOuaLEyih6L2ne41el4XMOMUFcf7RoCujnw_wcB


I'm using RAW Solubles Yucca right now and its the shit. It's 100% Yucca and just found out that its food grade too! The dilution ratio is like 1/16 tsp per gal! Far less expensive then any liquid version.


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## Zig-Zag Blue (Dec 2, 2015)

I used to have over watering issues until i bought this.....


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## pratzman (Dec 3, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> &#8220;Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!&#8221;, or, &#8220;My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?&#8221; Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the &#8220;solution&#8221; the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I&#8217;ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.
> 
> ...


Useful information...thanks...New on here. I can't find the "like" button.


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## Janie14 (Dec 13, 2015)

Need help what does this look like yellowing


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## Keighan (Dec 13, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> Thanks man! Really happy to be here! The abundance of master gardeners and the good will of the general membership is refreshing.
> 
> Still learning after all these years,
> Uncle Ben


Not to sound disrespectful because I highly respect you as a grower but the uncle Ben in these first pages of comments seems wayyy more understanding then ub now...


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 14, 2015)

Keighan said:


> Not to sound disrespectful because I highly respect you as a grower but the uncle Ben in these first pages of comments seems wayyy more understanding then ub now...


Understanding? Me and other "gurus" have given up teaching in cannabis forums or rather repeating ourselves with every new crop of newbies.

For example, just above you a member comes in here asking for help regarding a "yellowing" problem, posting to the wrong forum (should be Plant Problems) and posts one yellow photo shot under HPS lighting, giving absolutely no info on her day to day cultural activities. 

Learn plant culture and botany folks. You'll figure it out.


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## Keighan (Dec 14, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> Understanding? Me and other "gurus" have given up teaching in cannabis forums or rather repeating ourselves with every new crop of newbies.
> 
> For example, just above you a member comes in here asking for help regarding a "yellowing" problem, posting to the wrong forum (should be Plant Problems) and posts one yellow photo shot under HPS lighting, giving absolutely no info on her day to day cultural activities.
> 
> Learn plant culture and botany folks. You'll figure it out.


I get ya there I'm sure it's monotonous u just seemed alot happier to be here I guess? Maybe the redundent over and over bs from ppl has just gotten to you I'd imagine seriously though write a book call it "uncle bens answers to all the questions you should've fucking posted somewhere else" I'd buy it your one of the best.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 14, 2015)

Keighan said:


> I get ya there I'm sure it's monotonous u just seemed alot happier to be here I guess? Maybe the redundent over and over bs from ppl has just gotten to you I'd imagine seriously though write a book call it "uncle bens answers to all the questions you should've fucking posted somewhere else" I'd buy it your one of the best.


Thanks. I've been asked to write a book since I've been teaching on forums for over 15 years. Got bigger fish to fry and there's plenty of them to go around. God knows we need another cannabis forum and book on growing pot. 

Now.....your secret to success is Mel Frank's "MJ Insiders Growers Guide". Put botany and scientific facts backed by university studies and tests, no bullshit.


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## Keighan (Dec 14, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> Thanks. I've been asked to write a book since I've been teaching on forums for over 15 years. Got bigger fish to fry and there's plenty of them to go around. God knows we need another cannabis forum and book on growing pot.
> 
> Now.....your secret to success is Mel Frank's "MJ Insiders Growers Guide". Put botany and scientific facts backed by university studies and tests, no bullshit.


That sounds interesting, I love science I'll have to check it out. I'm sure you're busy with your orchards and stuff, still would be cool seems like every grower does something different even if its just little. There is quite a bit floating around though Ill admit that.


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## Bgdog30 (Dec 15, 2015)

My plant looks awesome right after the lights come on but by the time they go out it is drooping severely


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## Krippled (Dec 26, 2015)

Bgdog30 said:


> My plant looks awesome right after the lights come on but by the time they go out it is drooping severely


Same for me... Been doing it since vegg now into flower..lights out at 1pm first pic @ 6:08 next @ 6:48


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## Bgdog30 (Dec 29, 2015)

Krippled said:


> Same for me... Been doing it since vegg now into flower..lights out at 1pm first pic @ 6:08 next @ 6:48


Didnt seem to hurt anything thats just how that plant was...however I had to cut it down...was a nale


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## CTLights (Dec 31, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> &#8220;Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!&#8221;, or, &#8220;My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?&#8221; Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the &#8220;solution&#8221; the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I&#8217;ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.
> 
> ...



Hey Uncle Ben! Thanks so much for the wisdom and guidance, it's genuinely appreciated. 

I'm a first time grower with an overwatering issue (probably caused by over-eagerness). All leaves are drooping and bottom ones yellowing. No serious nutrients, just planted in Fox Farm Ocean Forest and I've used a little Seaweed Extract about half the times that I've watered. Plants are three weeks old. 

Other than keeping temp on the higher side (82*F) and humidity low (30-35%) is there anything I can do to help nurse my babies back? Have heard of pencil holes around the stem or adding a hydrogen peroxide solution to help deliver oxygen to the roots. Maybe a nutrient regime? Bad ideas? 

Theoretically, if I do nothing other than be patient, shouldn't the plants come back to full health before being 'under-watered'? 

Thanks in advance, 
CT


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## Krippled (Jan 5, 2016)

:-}


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## pink isn't well (Jan 6, 2016)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> &#8220;Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!&#8221;, or, &#8220;My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?&#8221; Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the &#8220;solution&#8221; the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I&#8217;ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.
> 
> ...



awesome post. simple, quick and in plain speak. Cheers j..


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## blueaqua (Jan 25, 2016)

Need some help, 18day old seedlings had to tranplant one beacuse roots were coming out of bottom left the other one be to see the outcome of #1. Looked like it needed more space, both started to get a tad lime green and yellowish like 4 days ago. Idon`t think im over watering. Maybe a nutrient defficiency?i added a super small amount of organic sea weed extrac diluted and ajusted the ph (it was really acid) for the transplant. Coul it be nitrogen defficiency they are to small to feed arent they? 

30 % organic compost

30%pest moss

20% perlite

20% organic worm humus

 

Trabplanted from 1 gal to 3 gal same color as it was before th transplat




 
The right 18 days and the left one is about 10 same phenotype , the yolder onnes were exactly the same as the younger one. The one on the right getting some purp stems N deff? Or natural

Alpine og(moxie seeds fem)


They are about 15 inches from 180 watt led thet were about 11 inches but brought it up as you can see in the younger seedling it looks great same thing was going one with both .


Temos 70 -80

Humidity 45 -55


Please help so bummed :
@Uncle Ben


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## Braka (Jan 30, 2016)

Ok so I started some seedlings and I waterd them on the six day because it seemed like the container it was in was still moist but I started to get curled leaves already they are curling from the sides in I checked the heat it seems to b fine I heard it's a low humidity problem but what do u guys think?and how can I fix it thank you!


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## blueaqua (Jan 30, 2016)

Pictures are nessesary.


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## Braka (Jan 30, 2016)

Ok these are it


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## blueaqua (Jan 31, 2016)

How are the ligts, temps and RH?

How often do you water, what kind of water ,the plant doesnt look ver helthy . Whhat seed were they?


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## Braka (Jan 31, 2016)

blueaqua said:


> How are the ligts, temps and RH?
> 
> How often do you water, what kind of water ,the plant doesnt look ver helthy . Whhat seed were they?


I'm using a mh light 1000 but it's pretty far from the plants the temp is77 filterd water ph at 5.8 the rh is 25-30% it's a Sfv og seed


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## blueaqua (Feb 1, 2016)

Did you buy them from a seed bank? Are they fem?

How far away? 

I always use tap water beacause water is really dirty were I live 

Everythin sounds okay exept maybe take youre humidity a bit up to 40 -50 thay might even like it more humid but iver 55% you promote fungus.



Tell me if it helps


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## Braka (Feb 1, 2016)

O


blueaqua said:


> Did you buy them from a seed bank? Are they fem?
> 
> How far away?
> 
> ...


k will do sir


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## blueaqua (Feb 1, 2016)

I was having some issues (as you can see my pics above) but i trabsplanted for more drainege and gave it some natural seaweed extract(smalldoes) and 24 hrs later they were so healthy. Im at 3 weeks and a half after germination they are soy healthy. FIRST TIME GROWER but had lot of reasearch.


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## The Nine (Feb 24, 2016)

Uncle Ben said:


> Understanding? Me and other "gurus" have given up teaching in cannabis forums or rather repeating ourselves with every new crop of newbies.
> 
> For example, just above you a member comes in here asking for help regarding a "yellowing" problem, posting to the wrong forum (should be Plant Problems) and posts one yellow photo shot under HPS lighting, giving absolutely no info on her day to day cultural activities.
> 
> Learn plant culture and botany folks. You'll figure it out.


Hi UB, I've been reading all your threads in here since riddleme pointed them out to me. I Have learned so much from your direct no bs approach. 
A friend of mine is now growing green right until the end as I have been bending his ear with your plant knowledge which makes absolute sense. 
He is 5 weeks into flowering amnesia with more leaves than he has ever had at this stage. His buds are developing very well and he has topped for 4 main colas which have all turned out well. 
His only gripe is the resin production is very sparse for this stage and there is still no aroma?

I realise this is probably a stupid question, but are you aware of high nitrogen hindering resin production during flowering in anyway? 

Btw, my mate I am speaking of is the best grower I know personally, he hits the best weights for his grow volume and his bud is always top quality which sells very fast for the last 5 years. 

Are you familiar with Harley Smith and his work?
If so, what do you think of his advice?


Sorry for all the questions, and I think I can speak for 99.99% of posters/lurkers here that we do value your kindness and patience here whilst selflessly giving your tips, advice and botanic knowledge to even the most undeserving of aggressive ignorant posters. 
Live long and prosper matey


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## Crippykeeper (Feb 24, 2016)

Can anyone help never seen this happen to roots before.


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## The Nine (Feb 24, 2016)

Crippykeeper said:


> View attachment 3615841 Can anyone help never seen this happen to roots before.


Are they potatoes?


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## Crippykeeper (Feb 24, 2016)

The Nine said:


> Are they potatoes?


 you would think so but nope it was a runt that wasn't really drinking up her fluids found her dead dry limb Odd Tipped the pot over to use soil in yard. This is her healthy sister


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## The Nine (Feb 25, 2016)

Crippykeeper said:


> you would think so but nope it was a runt that wasn't really drinking up her fluids found her dead dry limb Odd Tipped the pot over to use soil in yard. This is her healthy sister View attachment 3616145


We truly do learn new things every day. 
I've never seen anything like that before. 
What was the growing medium and feed schedule you was using (NPK + additives )? 
Were there any differences between her and her sister in the way they were grown and fed ?


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## Crippykeeper (Feb 25, 2016)

The Nine said:


> We truly do learn new things every day.
> I've never seen anything like that before.
> What was the growing medium and feed schedule you was using (NPK + additives )?
> Were there any differences between her and her sister in the way they were grown and fed ?


Lambert potting mix been using it for years. Using fox farm products 1000 watt hps. Feed scheduled was feed water feed. Gonna incorporated another watering between feeding I may have been feeding the runt harder in hope of her catching up. Guess I forgot my own advice. Less is more.


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## The Nine (Feb 25, 2016)

Crippykeeper said:


> Lambert potting mix been using it for years. Using fox farm products 1000 watt hps. Feed scheduled was feed water feed. Gonna incorporated another watering between feeding I may have been feeding the runt harder in hope of her catching up. Guess I forgot my own advice. Less is more.


Of those ingredients were there any root stimulators? With added enzimes?
It so, how much were you feeding per litre?

The roots looks like fungal growth has completely distorted the root system. 
What do they smell like?


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## Crippykeeper (Feb 26, 2016)

Smelled fine no root rot funk smelled of earth no root stimulators that I know of.


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## 420producer (Mar 15, 2016)

Kriegs said:


> Thanks, UB, for this awesome post and the thread that follows. Less really is more... I'm in my first grow, but I've been gardening avidly for 15 years. When I started growing weed, I tossed out everything I knew for "the mystique and voodoo" you mention. Well, just for a couple weeks -- I quickly pulled my head out, shook off the fog and said "it's just a damn plant, man!", and my plants are kickin' ass now. They're starting to freak me out with how much space they're filling.
> 
> Just a couple little things to add:
> 
> ...


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## budolskie (Mar 16, 2016)

Moisture stress?
Im not very sure only 2nd time on nft the humidity is very dry and sum the leafs at back seem very dry also

 

Any help would be great there nearly into 7th week


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## needynate (Mar 25, 2016)

What does this seem to be slightly burned tips


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## Crippykeeper (Mar 27, 2016)

needynate said:


> What does this seem to be slightly burned tips


To much food ppm to High would be my guess. Water for a week or two


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## Crippykeeper (Mar 27, 2016)

budolskie said:


> Moisture stress?
> Im not very sure only 2nd time on nft the humidity is very dry and sum the leafs at back seem very dry alsoView attachment 3633598
> 
> View attachment 3633605
> ...


Looks fine what's the issue


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## budolskie (Mar 28, 2016)

Just back leafs seem really dry and few poppy heads other then that they are great


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## Crippykeeper (Mar 29, 2016)

Looking like some good smoke coming along. Check your run off ph and ppms your getting tip burn. Water for a few feedings. 


budolskie said:


> Just back leafs seem really dry and few poppy heads other then that they are great
> View attachment 3644237
> View attachment 3644238


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## budolskie (Mar 29, 2016)

They been on water nearly 2 week now as they due this weekend the ppm is 200 and ph Is 5.7 but I will check what comes out the tubes


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## FerretHD (Mar 30, 2016)

Hey guys, please could you help me with this one, Durban Poison, 5 days old but as you can see it´s kinda weird compare to other 2, any ideas how to fix it ?


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## 420producer (Mar 30, 2016)

FerretHD said:


> Hey guys, please could you help me with this one, Durban Poison, 5 days old but as you can see it´s kinda weird compare to other 2, any ideas how to fix it ?question ? how come you dont have perlite in all three?? looks like only coco . and the others . looks coco and perlite.. possible over watered it


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## FerretHD (Mar 30, 2016)

There is perlite too but, I just added a bit more coco and substrate because it started to get tall and lean a bit,
Thanks for reply , won´t water it so often


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## 420producer (Mar 30, 2016)

try to use an eye dropper to water the lil girls


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## 420producer (Mar 30, 2016)

FerretHD said:


> There is perlite too but, I just added a bit more coco and substrate because it started to get tall and lean a bit,
> Thanks for reply , won´t water it so often


i had the same issue . i was just a lil zealous with the lil ones. and was drowning them . . made a 50/50 with perlite/coco and things are looking . way better . thats a good strain you got too.


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## FerretHD (Mar 30, 2016)

Ok, Thanks


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## PerfectGrower (Apr 12, 2016)

Ferret your seedlings look just fine. They need time 

Are you pH'ing your water? Keep an eye on your substrate pH with a meter.


Soon your plants will need some food (remember peat moss and coco are inert)


Go get 'em


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## HansBud (May 4, 2016)

Hey guys is this looking like any moisture stress? Just don't wanna make the wrong call it was also transplanted yesterday but looked the same couple days before alot slower growth too 
It's day 23 and haven't watered since transplanted it's in happy frog with perlite


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## Crippykeeper (May 4, 2016)

Feed her 


HansBud said:


> Hey guys is this looking like any moisture stress? Just don't wanna make the wrong call it was also transplanted yesterday but looked the same couple days before alot slower growth too
> It's day 23 and haven't watered since transplanted it's in happy frog with perliteView attachment 3673238


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## HansBud (May 4, 2016)

Crippykeeper said:


> Feed her


I guess it is time, they sure do grow up fast


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## HansBud (May 4, 2016)

Already doing much better good call crippykeeper thank you!


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## phillybluntz (May 8, 2016)

Pic from a few days ago. Temp 78 humidity 38%. Been drooping for a few days, slow growth. Also, new growth seem to have light green/yellow on just the tips of the blades. Not sure if it's over or under watered. Any help is much appreciated


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## terestrialextra (Jun 5, 2016)

Hi Uncle Ben

12 days old plants, in 1 gallon pots with plain cheap soil, no extra food, no transplant ,good temperatures, little air serculation in a closet but looking very healthy, are quite rapidly turning their leaves' edges in to WHITE colour (asches white, not yellow or anything else) like this 

https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/504/IMG_3331.jpg
https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/504/IMG_3343.jpg


Any ideas on this ? Could it be stress from moving the pots from a palce that were indoors to a place outdors in the open with a 400 meters altitude difference . Thank you


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## Michiganjesse (Jun 5, 2016)

Need help withthis please what is my problem temps are good RH good in super soil modularhydro buckets it's soil ponics but lots of issues going on can someone help please.


----------



## needynate (Jun 5, 2016)

Michiganjesse said:


> Need help withthis please what is my problem temps are good RH good in super soil modularhydro buckets it's soil ponics but lots of issues going on can someone help please.


Looks like they are turning purple , are your temps low ? What strain is it?


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## Michiganjesse (Jun 5, 2016)

needynate said:


> Looks like they are turning purple , are your temps low ? What strain is it?


It's not good purple temps are high 60's low 70's. I have a few the picture is strawberry banana but all are doing the same thing


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## Highertimes (Jun 6, 2016)

Oddly enough and I'm not positive but to med it look like a little weird magnesium deficiency at an early stage check if you have that in what you're feeding and look up what some of that looks like on here or Google images. Again not positive but ya never know. Good luck


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## 420producer (Jun 6, 2016)

Michiganjesse said:


> It's not good purple temps are high 60's low 70's. I have a few the picture is strawberry banana but all are doing the same thing


only the upper leaves or all leaves?


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## 420producer (Jun 6, 2016)

Michiganjesse said:


> Need help withthis please what is my problem temps are good RH good in super soil modularhydro buckets it's soil ponics but lots of issues going on can someone help please.


 i would like to see a close up of your top upper leaf in pic . looks dotted?


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## Michiganjesse (Jun 7, 2016)

420producer said:


> only the upper leaves or all leaves?


All


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## roachfinder (Jun 7, 2016)

I had the same problem.the big leaves on my seedlings turned purple wile the tepms were 75. I flushed and the added " overdrive" from a.n. And base nuts to get good p-k values. It Worked. I think what happened was too much calcium and salt caused the phosphorus deficiency. I used coco coir and soil mix. Hope this helps


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## roachfinder (Jun 7, 2016)

Michiganjesse said:


> Need help withthis please what is my problem temps are good RH good in super soil modularhydro buckets it's soil ponics but lots of issues going on can someone help please.


Forgot to quote u in my post.......


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## Michiganjesse (Jun 7, 2016)

roachfinder said:


> I had the same problem.the big leaves on my seedlings turned purple wile the tepms were 75. I flushed and the added " overdrive" from a.n. And base nuts to get good p-k values. It Worked. I think what happened was too much calcium and salt caused the phosphorus deficiency. I used coco coir and soil mix. Hope this helps


Awesome I'll try the same thing


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## Michiganjesse (Jun 7, 2016)

roachfinder said:


> Forgot to quote u in my post.......


Question I'm in hydro super soil. It's similar to deep water culture system but in super soil. I have modularhydro buckets that have air lines directly in the soil. I'm wondering if my plants are getting to many nutrients. From the soil always being wet. The roots are healthy but they are still showing signs of issues as you know. What is your thought on this. Should i go back to normal watering letting the soil dry out before watering again? This system is supposed to let you always have wet soil. But I'm starting to wonder.


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## Michiganjesse (Jun 7, 2016)

420producer said:


> i would like to see a close up of your top upper leaf in pic . looks dotted?





420producer said:


> i would like to see a close up of your top upper leaf in pic . looks dotted?





420producer said:


> i would like to see a close up of your top upper leaf in pic . looks dotted?


Stupid picture will not upload


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## 420producer (Jun 7, 2016)

Michiganjesse said:


> Stupid picture will not upload


it has to be a certain size. double check it . there gotta be a way , how is your plant .? my next grow


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## Michiganjesse (Jun 8, 2016)

I will try again tonight. Tried for an hour last night still sick but all i have done so far is a flush


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## Michiganjesse (Jun 8, 2016)

420producer said:


> it has to be a certain size. double check it . there gotta be a way , how is your plant .? my next grow


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## Michiganjesse (Jun 8, 2016)

Michiganjesse said:


> I will try again tonight. Tried for an hour last night still sick but all i have done so far is a flush


Finally got picture for you to load what do you think in the same soil fabric pots they do great in the hydrosoil they it sucks


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## roachfinder (Jun 8, 2016)

Michiganjesse said:


> Question I'm in hydro super soil. It's similar to deep water culture system but in super soil. I have modularhydro buckets that have air lines directly in the soil. I'm wondering if my plants are getting to many nutrients. From the soil always being wet. The roots are healthy but they are still showing signs of issues as you know. What is your thought on this. Should i go back to normal watering letting the soil dry out before watering again? This system is supposed to let you always have wet soil. But I'm starting to wonder.


I've never grew in that type. But if there are limited options I would let it dry a lil bit. Just keep a close eye on it


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## 420producer (Jun 9, 2016)

i see it looks like its changing for the better


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## 420producer (Jun 9, 2016)

i see it looks like its changing for the better .mine changed to purp similar to your. imo let it dry out for sure , weed dont like to be wet


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## Michiganjesse (Jun 10, 2016)

420producer said:


> i see it looks like its changing for the better .mine changed to purp similar to your. imo let it dry out for sure , weed dont like to be wet


Thank you i will start watering add in a normal soil grow. Hope all my air lines in my soil are still going to help such a waste on this system I have a few hundred dollars invested in it.


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## Michiganjesse (Jun 10, 2016)

Just through a strawberry banana into flower last week going to run her dry in this system and see what it does. Cross my fingers


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## haight (Jun 19, 2016)

Michiganjesse said:


> Question I'm in hydro super soil. It's similar to deep water culture system but in super soil. I have modularhydro buckets that have air lines directly in the soil. I'm wondering if my plants are getting to many nutrients. From the soil always being wet. The roots are healthy but they are still showing signs of issues as you know. What is your thought on this. Should i go back to normal watering letting the soil dry out before watering again? This system is supposed to let you always have wet soil. But I'm starting to wonder.


I do much better wet then "letting" the soil dry out. Just seems to slow down growth and size


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## Michiganjesse (Jun 19, 2016)

haight said:


> I do much better wet then "letting" the soil dry out. Just seems to slow down growth and size


I seem to be having issues they look over watered turning purple and black like signs of over watering do you use modularhydro buckets


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## Wt Stevie´s (Aug 2, 2016)

OneHit said:


> UB, What do you think is wrong with this plant? I had sprayed neem oil the day before, and after I woke up and the lights turn on, they were like this. I thought it would go away in a day, buit it didnt.


had the same problem with the neem oil.I did apply lights on though and I think that was the problem,and I think I overwatered as well,so I transplanted and problem solved


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## slownickel (Aug 13, 2016)

haight said:


> I do much better wet then "letting" the soil dry out. Just seems to slow down growth and size


Haight,

This may mean that you have your conductivity too high or in general, too high K and Na compared to Ca. It is critical in soils and mediums to not overwater, otherwise you are guaranteeing yourself calcium deficiency. If you don't like what you see when holding back water, you may have too much K and even N in your soil/medium. Do you have a soil analysis?


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## haight (Aug 14, 2016)

slownickel said:


> Haight,
> 
> This may mean that you have your conductivity too high or in general, too high K and Na compared to Ca. It is critical in soils and mediums to not overwater, otherwise you are guaranteeing yourself calcium deficiency. If you don't like what you see when holding back water, you may have too much K and even N in your soil/medium. Do you have a soil analysis?


Nah, I use Ocean Forrest and fertilize with Tiger Bloom very sparingly. The hard water around here comes out of the spigot at 7.2 to 7.4. I think you need three things: Water, light and nutrients. My flower room tends to run hot when the lights are on 80-84f. I water from the bottom so the soil at the top tends to stay dry but at the bottom it's wet. I do not let the pots sit in water. I water every other day for the most part.


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## haight (Aug 14, 2016)

Michiganjesse said:


> I seem to be having issues they look over watered turning purple and black like signs of over watering do you use modularhydro buckets


Three gallon pots in a saucer. I water from the bottom. Anyone with fungus gnat issues should consider watering from the bottom.


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## Harleyman954 (Aug 21, 2016)

Got a few plants going just seeing what you think. Thanks , it's a top and side pics of each, one got some damage from bulb


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## CoreyAcesome (Sep 18, 2016)

I woke up to this, the lanky one started a day or two before the one in the red pot, some soft some crispy leaves.


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## ruby fruit (Sep 20, 2016)

CoreyAcesome said:


> I woke up to this, the lanky one started a day or two before the one in the red pot, some soft some crispy leaves.


overwatering?


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## Knotty Head (Sep 21, 2016)

I reall need help. I am more than a month in on my candyland grow. The girls are stunted and showing this burning that wont go away. 600w mh, 640 cfm exhaust fan, 600 inline fan, 2 mini fans for circulation. Temps reach high 80's and go as low as 75ish, i am in a hot area. I was watering with bottled spring water and thought thats where the problem was coming from, so i just began using my filtered tap. Plants looking better but still not sure. New seedlings look totally healthy and have only gotten tap.


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## Field-O-Green (Oct 28, 2016)

Can anyone confirm over watering/ possible root rotting?


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## 420producer (Oct 28, 2016)

Field-O-Green said:


> Can anyone confirm over watering/ possible root rotting?View attachment 3816620


looks like your soil might be a lil hot.. ?? let it dry out use some fan to get air moving. dont see any clawing? where they clones?


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## Useless89 (Nov 13, 2016)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> So here is what my leaves are doing notice the bottom leaves are starting to curl at the tips it may be too early to notice anything ive noticed it over the last few days. Plant is 3 weeks old. First dose of ff gb was last night but the problem was prior to that
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> &#8220;Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!&#8221;, or, &#8220;My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?&#8221; Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the &#8220;solution&#8221; the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I&#8217;ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.
> 
> ...


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## 420producer (Nov 16, 2016)

Michiganjesse said:


> Just through a strawberry banana into flower last week going to run her dry in this system and see what it does. Cross my fingers


here are my latest pics 
strawberry bananas sherbet. in 15 gal pots and sour d in same size week 5 and week 7 on sour about 6 ft. tall


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## danzibar1234 (Nov 18, 2016)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> &#8220;Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!&#8221;, or, &#8220;My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?&#8221; Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the &#8220;solution&#8221; the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I&#8217;ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.
> 
> ...



Please help i think I transplanted late and my humidity is only 30% will they come back around or should I bin them 

I have bought a hr15 humidifier and it can only get Upto 42% 
With my extraction turned down as much as possible temps in the room 27.5

Strain stardawg 

20 days old from cutting


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## chuckie86 (Nov 23, 2016)

Can anyone help not sure whats going on with my plants


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## SoCalCraw (Nov 29, 2016)

chuckie86 said:


> Can anyone help not sure whats going on with my plants


What's the environment you've got your plant under? Humid/dry? Hot/cold? What light are you using? What nutes and how often are you feeding?


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## SoCalCraw (Nov 29, 2016)

I've also got a problem of my own on my hands, I'm hoping someone can help me!!

I've got a 15 plant limit, no rules on how many in flower at a time just 15 total root systems and plan on putting them in a 16x7x7 shipping container that's insulated to withstand temps in the -30 to -40°C and am definitely taking notes on cleanliness.

I recently just purchased a 1000W HPS that Im using in a 2x4x7 closet that is running AC to the bottom of the Grow box (that's within the closet) and allowing to rise to the ceiling along with 2 CPU fans and a little area fan to circulate the air best as I can. Temp stays at about 26°C with a 30% RH with the lights on, with the lights off it stays at 20°C with a 50-55% RH.

Previous to putting an AC unit in the closet there was just the fans, exceeding temps of over 30°C and having a RH of close to 60% and I would say for a good day, causing enough heat stress to
slightly taco my lady's leaves, the blades are coming up but the leaves aren't necessarily 'cupping'.

My question is, is this cupping reversible if I'm able to keep the temps controlled at the current ~26°C/30% DAY vs. ~20°C/50% NIGHT? Is there any way to reverse cupping?

I've got one super auto NL that's about 3.5 feet tall (having to bend her over because the lights too intense) that's under the 1000W she's on her 8th week of life out of about "10-12". Buds are forming nicely but they have a bit of a damp smell to them. I've inspected every little bit between her and there is absolutely no sign of mold, just that wet towel smell. I'm a little lost there also but it must have something to do with the humidity. Some leaves also have some yellow spotting I'm assuming due to that one bad heat wave they endured when I first got my light.

I'm just trying to get dense, good smelling nugs because I have the power just not necessarily the skill, and that's why I'm reaching out to those who do!

Here's a picture to get a better sense of what I'm dealing with, unfortunately my set up is super ghetto at home since I'm spending literally all my money on insulating those shipping containers for the harsh Canadian winters so please bare I appreciate you all in helping out in the medical and recreational cannabis communities, especially for Canadians at least it's not easy to find this information freely available from someone with experience!!

PS: this is my first grow! Please shoot out any constructive criticism! Just please don't be too too mean  thanks again!!


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## Ag3life (Dec 1, 2016)

HELP!!!!! She looked good just a few hours ago.


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## SoCalCraw (Dec 4, 2016)

Ag3life said:


> HELP!!!!! She looked good just a few hours ago.


What are your temps like? And how much water/ how often?


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## Ag3life (Dec 5, 2016)

SoCalCraw said:


> What are your temps like? And how much water/ how often?


I have kept my temp between 70-80 degrees. I've been watering every 2-3 days. How much run off am I suppose to have when watering?


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## Michiganjesse (Dec 6, 2016)

SoCalCraw said:


> I've also got a problem of my own on my hands, I'm hoping someone can help me!!
> 
> I've got a 15 plant limit, no rules on how many in flower at a time just 15 total root systems and plan on putting them in a 16x7x7 shipping container that's insulated to withstand temps in the -30 to -40°C and am definitely taking notes on cleanliness.
> 
> ...


First grow doing pretty good leaves may not come back doubtful. but they should be just fine to continue


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## SoCalCraw (Dec 6, 2016)

Ag3life said:


> I have kept my temp between 70-80 degrees. I've been watering every 2-3 days. How much run off am I suppose to have when watering?


The runoff will all depend on your plants root systems and how much the dirt around them is soaking in and holding on to so it's hard for me to tell you the answer on that one. 

A good test i like to do Is to measure the amount of water before I give it to a plant (if you're not worried about ph testing your runoff all the time), let's say 1.5L. Place the pot over a large bowl so there's room between the bottom of that plants pot and the bottom of the bowl for your runoff to go into. Make sure however your plant is decently dry, and pour that water on the plant, after it stops dripping lift the pot and take out the bowl, measure the water in your bowl, let's say .25L. (1.5-.25)That means your pot is able to retain 1.25L of water without runoff which is key to getting the farthest root tips water and not overwatering it by keeping the bottom constantly moist. 

I hope that helps a bit and I hope your babies perked back up!!!!


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## chuckie86 (Dec 14, 2016)

Ag3life said:


> HELP!!!!! She looked good just a few hours ago.


Yea buddy they just need some water


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## SoCalCraw (Dec 21, 2016)

Update on my own heat stress question earlier: 

70% of the leaves coming off the buds had some form of heat stress, either taco or edges lifting up, but the harvest was actually pretty good. 

I got 2oz dry and cured from a Northern Lights Autoflower Feminized grown under 150W of T5 and then put in flower under a 1000W Agrolite with a fire retardant thin ass sheet to soften the strength of the light hitting the plants since it's in a closet (I got super lucky with that find, I don't suggest doing that unless you're absolutely desperate at the time, which I absolutely was) and in soil (miracle grow potting mix). 

I want to let people know that these plants are very very very hardy, I can't repeat that enough. When I saw all of my leaves starting to taco I did immediate action (added AC unit, boxed in grow area for easier ventilation, stabilized temps between day and night, etc) since I was in a panic and I learnt from those experiences that much worse things could have happened. The plant won't die unless you stress it out with heat above 90° for HOURS. Don't let the taco's by your nugs push you down as they did to me, your plant still has plenty of other leaves down the branch to support the growth of buds on them that you might not think are enough but definitely will be (in terms of Autoflowers).

I can't say the same for non auto's since pruning and other techniques will probably (idk) make it so that if there is heat stress the plant won't have enough other leaves to rely on and I'm assuming as a result could have a higher chance of dying due To a heat wave even after you might have fixed the problem.


----------



## Ag3life (Dec 22, 2016)

SoCalCraw said:


> The runoff will all depend on your plants root systems and how much the dirt around them is soaking in and holding on to so it's hard for me to tell you the answer on that one.
> 
> A good test i like to do Is to measure the amount of water before I give it to a plant (if you're not worried about ph testing your runoff all the time), let's say 1.5L. Place the pot over a large bowl so there's room between the bottom of that plants pot and the bottom of the bowl for your runoff to go into. Make sure however your plant is decently dry, and pour that water on the plant, after it stops dripping lift the pot and take out the bowl, measure the water in your bowl, let's say .25L. (1.5-.25)That means your pot is able to retain 1.25L of water without runoff which is key to getting the farthest root tips water and not overwatering it by keeping the bottom constantly moist.
> 
> I hope that helps a bit and I hope your babies perked back up!!!!


Thanks for that tip!!!!


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## Ag3life (Dec 22, 2016)

chuckie86 said:


> Yea buddy they just need some water


yea they are looking great now. i notice that they bounce back fast.


----------



## BBbubblegum (Dec 23, 2016)

danzibar1234 said:


> Please help i think I transplanted late and my humidity is only 30% will they come back around or should I bin them
> 
> I have bought a hr15 humidifier and it can only get Upto 42%
> With my extraction turned down as much as possible temps in the room 27.5
> ...


Humidity is too low. Start spraying them twice a day


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## STX.OrganicGuerilla (Jan 17, 2017)

Any diagnosis.
Funny looking after 1 tbs molasses feeding.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/slight-twist-of-the-leaves-near-bud-sites.932336/


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## 710revolution (Apr 2, 2017)

Heres an extreme overwatering caused by a bad mistake on my part. Been on vacation the past week since 3/23. I overcompensated on what i thought my plants would drink, and i ended up overwatering them. Rookie mistake, and ive been growing off and on for over ten years. Its been dry for the past month and a half. They were drinking a lot before i took off last week. So im like ill soak them. I ended up drowning the bitches. It sucks balls, but i should have watched the forecast closer to see there was going to be a mini monsoon hitting home during the same time i was going to be gone. Relative humidity is at 70 freaking percent, so naturally my girls were not drinking as much as usual. I only went off what ive been doing the past 10 weeks. Not reading my plants or their grow enviornment. This has been a rough grow as it is because,well, life. Only the one plant is questionable to be able to finish. However, im pushing it anyway, to finish the grow. The others i am confident will finish out. Got two unknown strains. Which are the two obviously bigger plants. The other two are trainwreck auto from crop king seeds. 2ft×2ftx4ft tent with cheap ass blurples. Ive been running them all 12/12 for 3 1/2 weeks, 24hr a day before that. Gives a good visual of what overwatering looks like. Wrecks shit.


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## Moose Moss (Apr 13, 2017)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> &#8220;Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!&#8221;, or, &#8220;My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?&#8221; Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the &#8220;solution&#8221; the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I&#8217;ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.
> 
> ...


Great article Ben. I am attempting my third indoor closet grow, i really screwed up the first two grows somehow. i used to much or to little light, Over fertilizing, over watering and or to much heat from lights now that is said, how would i know which stage to give the plant nutrients and how much light to use if only growing one or two plants? Why do some growers use calmag or molasses etc. I hope I didn't hit you with too many questions but seems like a lot of people have different theories on indoor growing. 
Thxs Moose


----------



## jbcCT (Jun 7, 2017)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> &#8220;Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!&#8221;, or, &#8220;My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?&#8221; Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the &#8220;solution&#8221; the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I&#8217;ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.
> 
> ...


I'm very liberal with my watering. Recently fed a few girls, then had rain, very moist for two days straight. Had some cupping last night. One bright sunny day today, mid 70's nice sun, cured cupping. 

I'm a less is more guy when it comes to water & nutrients. I've always found my outdoor crops thrive on the dry side. I'm a firm believer most strains like it dry.


----------



## itsmeifti (Jun 8, 2017)

Hi, can an expert let me know what is the problem with these? White spots on lower leaves - eventually 'crisp' and 'burn off'

3 x OG Kush, planted 7 may 17
All in one soil/nute mix ( 4 months release)
Context - been very wet over the last 2/3 weeks 
Have tried onion/garlic puree on leaves last few days as a pesticide?
Advice welcome!


----------



## 420producer (Jun 9, 2017)

SoCalCraw said:


> I've also got a problem of my own on my hands, I'm hoping someone can help me!!
> 
> I've got a 15 plant limit, no rules on how many in flower at a time just 15 total root systems and plan on putting them in a 16x7x7 shipping container that's insulated to withstand temps in the -30 to -40°C and am definitely taking notes on cleanliness.
> 
> ...


you want a ghetto hack? walmart sells these emergency blankets for a buck. will help with some reflectiveness. imho i think the 1000w is too big for area. you have . 5x5 is ideal for a 1000w. if you can exhaust the light do that if bat wing raise it to the highest , my first closet grow was similar to yours but 4x4x7 and i fought heat even with a ac. but 5k btu cooling per 1000w used should be gucci. and if you can bury the container,? lmk how things goes. im in colorado and it gets down to the -15s but not on a regular. ive done the 3/4" foam board with the reflective facing out with r30 batting framed with panda 10x20' space needed a 36k btu mini split with heat pump .and a Co2 burner. winning...


----------



## 420producer (Jun 9, 2017)

http://www.growweedeasy.com/sites/growweedeasy.com/files/cannabis-plant-problem-flowchart.jpg



chuckie86 said:


> Can anyone help not sure whats going on with my plants


to be honest that looks like it could be a few things. i would look at roots imo. as your issue. the link is cool.
this chart might help some of you not sure what going on with your plants


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## jbcCT (Aug 14, 2017)

OneHit said:


> UB, What do you think is wrong with this plant? I had sprayed neem oil the day before, and after I woke up and the lights turn on, they were like this. I thought it would go away in a day, buit it didnt.


That looks way over watered to me. How often are you watering?


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## Mr. Krambo44 (Aug 15, 2017)

Hi uncle b. I have a question for you but anyone can answer as long as it's the correct info. You refer to ivory dish soap as a surfactant. What does that do for the roots? Does it need to be done?


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## Aye1frmDay1ny (Aug 31, 2017)

Can anybody tell me what happened this happens over night


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## Aye1frmDay1ny (Aug 31, 2017)

Aye1frmDay1ny said:


> Can anybody tell me what happened this happens over night


----------



## T-Bag (Aug 31, 2017)

I recently had issues with high humidity! My plants leaves started turning yellow in the middle and everything started to mildly wilt. I had a few leaves start to dampen off. I figured they needed a flush or something of the sort. To me it looked like they had some sort of deficiency or possibly a lock out. As I sat in the room thinking the moisture hit me right in the face. I brought my meter and holy fuck 100% humidity was choking out my plants. The stoma couldnt breath because of all the moisture. Never had I dealt with that nor realized that room had such high humidity...


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## T-Bag (Aug 31, 2017)

Holy shit bro. Overnight? If I had to guess it looks like it didnt get enough water BUT if it happened overnight you might be looking at some sort of rodent or insect attacking the roots. That thing is DEAD something seriously attacked it or the root ball completely dried out. The wind could have possibly snapped the base of the stem or something I cant really get a good look with that picture. Maybe take one a little further out and one a little more close up... You didnt move it or anything recently did you? Dig into the roots and see what you find, I would guess maybe grubs cause gophers would have probably pulled the whole thing through.


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## Aye1frmDay1ny (Aug 31, 2017)

T-Bag said:


> I recently had issues with high humidity! My plants leaves started turning yellow in the middle and everything started to mildly wilt. I had a few leaves start to dampen off. I figured they needed a flush or something of the sort. To me it looked like they had some sort of deficiency or possibly a lock out. As I sat in the room thinking the moisture hit me right in the face. I brought my meter and holy fuck 100% humidity was choking out my plants. The stoma couldnt breath because of all the moisture. Never had I dealt with that nor realized that room had such high humidity...


well I'm on a high climate and it's super dry (la national forest) and a storm did pass us these 2 days maybe the sudden air change


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## Josiah123456789 (Sep 12, 2017)

*First time grower here and having a few problems. 3 weeks since planted. Any suggestions?*


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## haight (Sep 21, 2017)

Better drainage, less humidity and don't water so much


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## Craigson (Sep 27, 2017)

Josiah123456789 said:


> View attachment 4009360 View attachment 4009360 View attachment 4009360 View attachment 4009361 *First time grower here and having a few problems. 3 weeks since planted. Any suggestions?*


Ive got same issue i think , over watering/unaerated soil.


So i have 6 seedlings about 2-3wks old.
I started in jiffy pellets and everything was good, lots of roots showing out jiffy pellets so i transplanted into 3" pots sept 17.(watered)
1/2 promix bx and 1/2 promix hp
I watered once and seemed ok, waited until very light pots then watered again sept 21. 
Seedlings started to droop n yellow. Waited til dry then watered again sept 21.
Now theyre browning n still drooping.

So i know i shoulda added more perlite and need to fix.

QUESTION- should i ride it out n just make sure they go fully dry for a day or two before watering again?
OR - should i pull em and re-plant w added perlite? If so, do i get old dirt off roots and plant in same pots or just move to slightly bigger pots and add perlite?

Any help is appreciated
Thx


----------



## Craigson (Sep 27, 2017)

Craigson said:


> Ive got same issue i think , over watering/unaerated soil.
> 
> 
> So i have 6 seedlings about 2-3wks old.
> ...



Or should i pull the jiffy pellets out n replant in better mix?(w perlite)
If i do this there will be some root damage.


----------



## Craigson (Sep 28, 2017)

Craigson said:


> Or should i pull the jiffy pellets out n replant in better mix?(w perlite)
> If i do this there will be some root damage.


So far only suggestion is that they need feed.
Does that make sense??
If so then they needed fed at like 1 week old?(issues started then and been getting progressively worse.
Heres pics from last night. I checked a cpl roots n they seem to be good and growing.

Note- i did slurry test n ph was between 6-6.5 for soil.


----------



## JacquesWebsterJr (Sep 29, 2017)

Need help with my plant. One of my first responses on here. Don't know what's happening with one of my leaves; turning bright green but not yet yellow. Added some big bloom but not much difference


----------



## ThereJustTomatoPlants (Oct 10, 2017)

I'm pretty sure it was an over watering problem but a few of the leaves stared spiraling and crinkling on the end of leaves. The worst one even developed a small hole in it. O let em dry for about 5 days and they started to perk. Back up. Everything i see says water em until a little comes out of the bottom, that's what I did and they didn't seem to like it. No discoloration was happening at all just twisting and crinkling leaves


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## Craigson (Oct 10, 2017)

Craigson said:


> So far only suggestion is that they need feed.
> Does that make sense??
> If so then they needed fed at like 1 week old?(issues started then and been getting progressively worse.
> Heres pics from last night. I checked a cpl roots n they seem to be good and growing.
> ...


Yup they neededfed


----------



## Queefsniffer (Oct 10, 2017)

Man my plants look like some of these photos, the more I learn the more confident I feel, but at the same time, the more overwhelmed I feel too haha


----------



## frizzayy (Oct 15, 2017)

Anyone know what the hell is wrong with my baby auto blue diesel  she's dying the other 2 which are haze are going great hydroponic no nutrients yet light is 300 watt led temps stay low 80s I really can't see the problem plus light is 20 inches away from the little girls


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## JacquesWebsterJr (Oct 17, 2017)

Hey guys,

First grow here. Looks like my three girls are getting a slight browning st their tips. Two are in veg, and one is in flower. My pH is about 7 and I'm not using any nutrients other than fox farm ocean forest soil.


----------



## frizzayy (Oct 20, 2017)

JacquesWebsterJr said:


> Need help with my plant. One of my first responses on here. Don't know what's happening with one of my leaves; turning bright green but not yet yellow. Added some big bloom but not much difference


Looks good 2 me boss


----------



## DrWahoos (Nov 15, 2017)

GoldenGraham84 said:


> you should mention something about leaf curling/cupping due to the plant being rootbound.


Absolutely killer stuff!! I'm seeing a problem I have never seen before! I just got some gorgeous Clones from the cannabis cup and they look spectacular! Except one weird issue that I have never seen....my leaves are becoming translucent. And I don't mean being eaten, but like it's just loosing its cells. I pulled a leaf that looked like green cellophane almost. Super weird.


----------



## Party P (Feb 19, 2018)

Great post UB! Thank you for all the great advice! here is a picture of what a few of my leaves look like. Im thinking over fertilization...


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## Crippykeeper (Feb 20, 2018)

Party P said:


> Great post UB! Thank you for all the great advice! here is a picture of what a few of my leaves look like. Im thinking over fertilization...View attachment 4092894View attachment 4092895


Yes that or deficiency rust color on leaves is a sign. Have you prayed with any pesticides?


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## Party P (Feb 20, 2018)

Crippykeeper said:


> Yes that or deficiency rust color on leaves is a sign. Have you prayed with any pesticides?


No...Havent sprayed anything...seems like its only a few leaves that are looking like this too.


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## Crippykeeper (Feb 21, 2018)

Party P said:


> No...Havent sprayed anything...seems like its only a few leaves that are looking like this too.


Look up deficiencies that cause leaf rust


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## Party P (Feb 22, 2018)

So I've been doing a lot of research and I think it's cannabis rust fungus...cut off all the leaves that show sign of the fungus and I'm hoping raising the temps in my grow room prevent it from coming back. Crossing my fingers I caught whatever it is early.


----------



## Crippykeeper (Feb 22, 2018)

Party P said:


> So I've been doing a lot of research and I think it's cannabis rust fungus...cut off all the leaves that show sign of the fungus and I'm hoping raising the temps in my grow room prevent it from coming back. Crossing my fingers I caught whatever it is early.


Look for something that you can use as a preventative that’s natural good luck happy growing


----------



## jordzz96 (Mar 5, 2018)

can anyone tell me whats wrong with my plant? any help would be largely appreciated. thanks


----------



## Crippykeeper (Mar 6, 2018)

jordzz96 said:


> can anyone tell me whats wrong with my plant? any help would be largely appreciated. thanks


Looks like thrips damage and I think i see a criter out of focus in your second picture. Neem or azamax will help


----------



## Tim1987 (Mar 7, 2018)

Party P said:


> So I've been doing a lot of research and I think it's cannabis rust fungus...cut off all the leaves that show sign of the fungus and I'm hoping raising the temps in my grow room prevent it from coming back. Crossing my fingers I caught whatever it is early.


Id do what crippy said. Check your ph and ec. Get them in check before anything else.
Then check for bugs.
But id say you runoff ph is very high.
Check ph. Check ec. In that order. 
Tim


----------



## buzzinga (Mar 8, 2018)

hey guys could anyone please help me with this. I have attached the pictures below. I am a newbie and this is my first grow . I could really use some help. Thank you.

The leaves are having      yellow spot and even some tips seem burnt

I did some research and i am guessing its a ph problem or a cal mag deficiency. Any help on this would really be appreciated. thank you


----------



## Crippykeeper (Mar 8, 2018)

buzzinga said:


> hey guys could anyone please help me with this. I have attached the pictures below. I am a newbie and this is my first grow . I could really use some help. Thank you.
> 
> The leaves are having View attachment 4102278View attachment 4102280 View attachment 4102279 View attachment 4102278 View attachment 4102279 View attachment 4102280 yellow spot and even some tips seem burnt
> 
> I did some research and i am guessing its a ph problem or a cal mag deficiency. Any help on this would really be appreciated. thank you


How old is the plant ? And what’s the feeding ppm/EC? Did you spray with anything?


----------



## buzzinga (Mar 8, 2018)

Crippykeeper said:


> How old is the plant ? And what’s the feeding ppm/EC? Did you spray with anything?


the plant is 4 weeks old. It is an auto. current ppm is 350 and ph is around 6.8. Sprayed it with plain ph'd water that's it. I recently flushed the plant pretty had, the whole plant kind of spun in its place. Could that have affected its roots or something.?


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## Crippykeeper (Mar 9, 2018)

buzzinga said:


> the plant is 4 weeks old. It is an auto. current ppm is 350 and ph is around 6.8. Sprayed it with plain ph'd water that's it. I recently flushed the plant pretty had, the whole plant kind of spun in its place. Could that have affected its roots or something.?


Its 4 weeks old if roots got damaged not good but it don’t look like that’s the issue. Perhaps a little stressed from the soaking let her dry out a few days


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## Ncs0816 (Apr 11, 2018)

Ia this nute burn


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## Ncs0816 (Apr 11, 2018)

These plant are so easy to burn. I gave it an 1/8 of the recommened dose after flushing


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## Ncs0816 (Apr 11, 2018)

Two strains. One is really over fed

Also the over fed one is SHINEY like glass. Is this a root problem


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## Tim1987 (Apr 11, 2018)

Ncs0816 said:


> Two strains. One is really over fed
> 
> Also the over fed one is SHINEY like glass. Is this a root problem


The first leaf is just a little burn. No biggie.
The second............
Have you been supplementing calmag?
How much?
What's your water like?


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## Ncs0816 (Apr 11, 2018)

Tim1987 said:


> The first leaf is just a little burn. No biggie.
> The second............
> Have you been supplementing calmag?
> How much?
> What's your water like?


Everyone keep saying cal mag

Haha

But yeah. I use cal mag every time I feed. About once a week.


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## Tim1987 (Apr 11, 2018)

Ncs0816 said:


> Everyone keep saying cal mag
> 
> Haha
> 
> But yeah. I use cal mag every time I feed. About once a week.


Well my diagnosis, is just as I expected.
You are feeding too much calmag. It's making your water really hard.
You may as well be using hard water. That's why I asked what your water was like.

You have a calmag problem. But not in the way a lot of people probably told you.


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## tylerkewl (Apr 24, 2018)

OneHit said:


> UB, I just checked out that link. Do you recommend using that spinout spray? Also, do you have any personal experience with feminized seeds? Im growing one, and there have been some light cycle moments when the timer wasnt working properly, as well as some potential light leaks coming from my mothering chamber, and I hear all these horror stories about feminized seeds turning hermie. WHen they DO go hermie, is it the entire plant? Or one branch? Ive also taken some clones from this mother. Do I need to toss them immediatly if I find that the mother has turned hermie?


Feminized seeds are all basically herms to begin with..There are created by causing stress to the genetics. Why people pay more for fem and auto flower seeds IllI never know. Except for the fact that it makes it easier for beginners..I don't see any way the quality of flower could be as good as the same genetics before stress. Anyone else have an opinion?


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## raggyb (Apr 24, 2018)

tylerkewl said:


> Feminized seeds are all basically herms to begin with..There are created by causing stress to the genetics. Why people pay more for fem and auto flower seeds IllI never know. Except for the fact that it makes it easier for beginners..I don't see any way the quality of flower could be as good as the same genetics before stress. Anyone else have an opinion?


Probably true. One counter argument might be why landrace are so desirable when they are the result of decades of inbreeding? Maybe they're not so great? I got one it's a pain in the ass to grow.


----------



## tylerkewl (Apr 25, 2018)

raggyb said:


> Probably true. One counter argument might be why landrace are so desirable when they are the result of decades of inbreeding? Maybe they're not so great? I got one it's a pain in the ass to grow.


Ohh don't get me wrong. I am totally for genetic manipulation..That's just agriculture. We would all starve and smoke shitty weed. If not for selective breeding...


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## Apokal (Apr 26, 2018)

Using lst, began to notice lacerated leaves. What could be the problem?
.


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## Oogsi (May 8, 2018)

Apokal said:


> Using lst, began to notice lacerated leaves. What could be the problem?
> . View attachment 4127520 View attachment 4127521


Don’t worry about that I had the same I found out I wasn’t careful when doing LST and I actually did the damage myself , oh and your fan being to close / to high can do that too


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## tylerkewl (May 8, 2018)

Yeah she's pretty dang happy now! No Death , No bugs, No disease. I better take like 50 more while the going is good

T


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## Killarkhronic (May 8, 2018)

This is new to me..any info?


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## Killarkhronic (May 8, 2018)

?


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## tylerkewl (May 8, 2018)

How many of your leaves are doing that ?


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## Killarkhronic (May 8, 2018)

This plant theres a few. Theres only a few plant doing it. Maybe one or two on this plant and that plant but its weird idk. About to flip them to the flower room where i have work room, give them snother week on veg in there to stretch and neem them.


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## Killarkhronic (May 8, 2018)

Temps fine in my room. About 70 75. Everything is as usual. Air conditioned and my water chillers at 68 69...dont know whst the deez is


----------



## Terpteem (Jun 2, 2018)

https://www.rollitup.org/t/first-harvest-of-the-year.965067/


----------



## Gorilla Mike (Jun 14, 2018)

Uncle Ben said:


> You'll have abundant foliage and the pot will need watering often. The condition and mass of the foliage pretty much indicates the same with the root system.
> 
> tryinghard, thanks bro. It's helped out alot of people over the years. It's pretty basic stuff but sometimes we lose sight of the forest for the trees.
> 
> UB


Hey OneHit,

There’s a guy on YouTube and I can’t remember his name but he’s got a ton of great growing videos with his bombshell girlfriend participating in a lot of them. But how I found him was by the first video of his I stumbled onto and it was called something like, “The first four inches”. It was mind-blowing and a real eye-opener and it didn’t even have his hot girlfriend in it! He was teaching how to get a massive healthy root system by starting his seed sprouts in a 4 inch rockwool cube! Uncle Ben was diagnosing plant problems by looking at leaves and everything he says boils down to having and healthy root system and you asked, “How do I tell if it has a robust effective rootsystem?”



This guy on YouTube in the “First Four Inches” video says that the best way to get a healthy root system is to start one from the very beginning with your sprouted seed. And then he teaches how to do it! I tried his advice and it worked like a charm! He uses fabric pots (I think). When I saw this video I was growing in plastic 5 gallon buckets with holes drilled out the bottom for good drainage. I’ve been using them fine for 20 years! So my next crop I switched over to fabric pots just to see if they were any better. And everything broke BAD! But I think my mistake was I also tried experimenting with a handful of other variables too so I couldn’t tell if it was the fabric pots causing the problem cause they’re supposed to be fool-proof. Maybe they found in me their first FOOL! I’ll tell you what I discovered later was the cause of all my grief. But experimentation and recording it is always good for new growers.



When I got big I tried experimenting with auto trimmers. The only one that worked like a charm was Tom’s Tumble Trimmer. It manicured my buds perfect every time no matter what I did! And fast too! In all my growing experience its the only machine that’s worked perfectly and is still working perfectly 3 years later with no maintenance or breakdowns!


----------



## paradise1 (Aug 21, 2018)

Helpppp, what my problems? Overwatering? Its been hit with strong storms 2 week ago.


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## maui454 (Aug 27, 2018)

My plants were extremely stressed this weekend. They were underwatered and now they look like this. Any tips for getting them back on track?


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## Vinny1989 (Sep 18, 2018)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> &#8220;Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!&#8221;, or, &#8220;My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?&#8221; Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the &#8220;solution&#8221; the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I&#8217;ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.
> 
> ...


In the overwatering section you've wrote.mat the end you state "bio folks" sorry if this is a dumb question but do you mean folks that use biobizz nutrients?? As what you have wrote about overfertilization sounds exactly like what's up with my plants and I'm using biobizz nutrients


----------



## pollen205 (Sep 22, 2018)

when I defoliate plant ...Do I water that day or when do I water or feed when I defoliate


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## Uniqueturk90 (Jan 20, 2019)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> &#8220;Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!&#8221;, or, &#8220;My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?&#8221; Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the &#8220;solution&#8221; the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I&#8217;ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.
> 
> ...


Over fert is only a problem when conditions are not optimum..
the plant and medium does most of the work, we only do 5 percent of the work 
If the conditions were fully met plants can defend themselves

People need to learn about NPK and biochemistry, chemistry without chemicals,

kind regards 
H the turk 

.


----------



## Citylimits (Jan 30, 2019)

Ok guessing water problem let medium dry out before watering and gave them 200ml of ph 7 water. On day 10 of life root systems look fine getting some cupping/twisting and just starting to get some slight yellowing on the tips of the critical sour deisel. Heat mat is still set at 70 to keep roots warm when night temps drop. If I didnt have the heat mat on the hygrometer would read 59 as a low. Fan was hitting more of the plants than I would like useing it more for heat displacement from the t5. So I moved t5 up a couple inches and tilted fan back right now. Soil is a seedling mix npk 000. Mixed with worm castings and perlite. Approx measurements 75% seedling mix with perlite. 15% castings and additional 10% perlite. Here are some pictures of the worst couplrits.


----------



## raggyb (Jan 30, 2019)

Citylimits said:


> Ok guessing water problem let medium dry out before watering and gave them 200ml of ph 7 water. On day 10 of life root systems look fine getting some cupping/twisting and just starting to get some slight yellowing on the tips of the critical sour deisel. Heat mat is still set at 70 to keep roots warm when night temps drop. If I didnt have the heat mat on the hygrometer would read 59 as a low. Fan was hitting more of the plants than I would like useing it more for heat displacement from the t5. So I moved t5 up a couple inches and tilted fan back right now. Soil is a seedling mix npk 000. Mixed with worm castings and perlite. Approx measurements 75% seedling mix with perlite. 15% castings and additional 10% perlite. Here are some pictures of the worst couplrits. View attachment 4273632 View attachment 4273633 View attachment 4273634 View attachment 4273635View attachment 4273637 View attachment 4273637View attachment 4273638


They don't look all that bad. I'm confused though why the heat mat control is set for 70 but your reading is 79? Are T5 that hot? I don't feel you need 200ml water per plant. It depends how much that seed mix dries out, but in plastic cups I don't think it will. I use the same cup. I guess you got holes drilled in the clear one but not the red one? My math says 200ml is like 7 oz (7 shots). How long before you rewater? It all depends, but I would try only 60 ml per plant and it's a guess but I would not be surprised if you could even go a week before watering those again. They don't look like they can drink that much. But they look ok to me anyhow. If you look in the clear cup and see water droplets midway down you're still ok in my opinion.


----------



## Citylimits (Jan 30, 2019)

raggyb said:


> They don't look all that bad. I'm confused though why the heat mat control is set for 70 but your reading is 79? Are T5 that hot? I don't feel you need 200ml water per plant. It depends how much that seed mix dries out, but in plastic cups I don't think it will. I use the same cup. I guess you got holes drilled in the clear one but not the red one? My math says 200ml is like 7 oz (7 shots). How long before you rewater? It all depends, but I would try only 60 ml per plant and it's a guess but I would not be surprised if you could even go a week before watering those again. They don't look like they can drink that much. But they look ok to me anyhow. If you look in the clear cup and see water droplets midway down you're still ok in my opinion.


Hard to show in pics. Both cups have holes double cups is just so I can check on root structure and to repot before I get bound up. T5s are hot probably get about 90 degrees at the canopy level without fan. Seedling mat is set on a low temp only to keep roots/soil at 70 when the night temps dip I do not want my soil temps to dip with them. I'm thinking my soil was too wet when I put seeds in. Took 9 days to dry out 5 with the dome on and 4 with dome off. Will let them dry out agian should of top pics of roots they look great. This is the twisting/cupping I am talking about.


----------



## raggyb (Jan 30, 2019)

Citylimits said:


> Hard to show in pics. Both cups have holes double cups is just so I can check on root structure and to repot before I get bound up. T5s are hot probably get about 90 degrees at the canopy level without fan. Seedling mat is set on a low temp only to keep roots/soil at 70 when the night temps dip I do not want my soil temps to dip with them. I'm thinking my soil was too wet when I put seeds in. Took 9 days to dry out 5 with the dome on and 4 with dome off. Will let them dry out agian should of top pics of roots they look great. This is the twisting/cupping I am talking about.View attachment 4273774 View attachment 4273775


Maybe yours will dry a little faster with holes through both cups and since T5's are that hot I didn't know. But I'm still guessing you don't need 7 shots and 2 is enough at that size. And since the cups are clear you can check once a day and see if they're not dry. I'm not sure what the twisting is but it could be over watering. It doesn't seem like you environment is bad.


----------



## Mazegrows21 (Feb 21, 2019)

I made a post here earlier today and don’t know if one of my issues is because what has been listed in this thread.

If someone could check it out I would highly appreciate it

https://www.rollitup.org/t/sides-edges-of-leafs-curling.985000/


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## Mazegrows21 (Feb 21, 2019)

Mazegrows21 said:


> I made a post here earlier today and don’t know if one of my issues is because what has been listed in this thread.
> 
> If someone could check it out I would highly appreciate it
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/sides-edges-of-leafs-curling.985000/


Here are some images


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## chef123 (Feb 24, 2019)

Mazegrows21 said:


> Here are some images


I´d check Temperature and lightning distance.
Could be too much radiant heat burning your small plants.


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## Kokosgrow (Feb 25, 2019)

Citylimits said:


> Hard to show in pics. Both cups have holes double cups is just so I can check on root structure and to repot before I get bound up. T5s are hot probably get about 90 degrees at the canopy level without fan. Seedling mat is set on a low temp only to keep roots/soil at 70 when the night temps dip I do not want my soil temps to dip with them. I'm thinking my soil was too wet when I put seeds in. Took 9 days to dry out 5 with the dome on and 4 with dome off. Will let them dry out agian should of top pics of roots they look great. This is the twisting/cupping I am talking about.View attachment 4273774 View attachment 4273775


Have the same prblems and no idea whats happend((((((((cry:


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## Citylimits (Feb 25, 2019)

Kokosgrow said:


> Have the same prblems and no idea whats happend((((((((cry:


Mine was water ph.


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## raggyb (Feb 25, 2019)

Citylimits said:


> Mine was water ph.


cool that you figured that out.


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## Citylimits (Feb 26, 2019)

raggyb said:


> cool that you figured that out.


Got alot worse before it got better


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## raggyb (Feb 26, 2019)

Citylimits said:


> Got alot worse before it got better


There's always something that's going to go wrong. I just potted some clones with nice looking roots and today they look like complete shit.


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## Kokosgrow (Feb 28, 2019)

look..this is my baby


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## raggyb (Feb 28, 2019)

raggyb said:


> There's always something that's going to go wrong. I just potted some clones with nice looking roots and today they look like complete shit.


they're looking somewhat better, I draped them with some saran wrap and got the humidity up.


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## AOC (May 16, 2019)

Is it true a little mix with hydrogen peroxide helps prevent and kills mold plus bacteria? If so what is the recommended mix with water please.


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## Crap Weasle (Jan 15, 2020)

Uncle Ben said:


> No two gardens are the same, forget what you read and learn to read your plants.
> 
> If you have a robust, effective root system, a RH of 20% is fine, all other factors considered. In fact, that kind of RH during latent flowering with indica doms is a blessing regarding possible bud rot or fungus issues.
> 
> ...


I found as a new grower a lot of things i read are decent guide lines to go by but i have different strains in exact same condition with different results. I have 2 lemon thunder same conditions different results. Seeds are important. Thanks for conversation


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## markash03 (Apr 6, 2020)

I made a post today , i don’t know what is making my leaf dying/burning. If you guys could check it out and give any help i'll highly appreciate please.






Leaf dying, need some advice/help


Hello everyone, The plants are 20 days in flowering but in the past 4 days the leaf are burning/dying. Can anyone help me with some advice?



www.rollitup.org





some images.


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## Papazuki (Apr 9, 2020)

Uncle Ben said:


> Thanks Dirtfree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## april_20 (Apr 14, 2020)

Hi guys, I am a new grower here and this is my first time growing indoor.

Currently my delahaze seedling is growing its 2 paid of leaf, but it grew abnormally and curly

Please help me, I am do not known what caused it.

Thank you


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## raggyb (Apr 14, 2020)

april_20 said:


> Hi guys, I am a new grower here and this is my first time growing indoor.
> 
> Currently my delahaze seedling is growing its 2 paid of leaf, but it grew abnormally and curlyView attachment 4533257
> 
> ...


i had 2 mutant runts one grow and one looked like this. probably in a week or two you'll know if it will snap out of it. if this is the only one you have drop a few more just in case.


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## april_20 (Apr 15, 2020)

raggyb said:


> i had 2 mutant runts one grow and one looked like this. probably in a week or two you'll know if it will snap out of it. if this is the only one you have drop a few more just in case.


Has your seedling grow complete sets of leaf?

I think I will try to water it less, they said over watering could be the cause, I hope so too


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## raggyb (Apr 15, 2020)

my mutant lived but never got more than 6". yes, water less too, that could be the problem.


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## Marcos Urban (Apr 21, 2020)

Killarkhronic said:


> This is new to me..any info?


I know your querly is 2 years old. Its probably problem with broad mites. Use the microscope and look at the leaves. If you see little snakes,. Use strong insecticide!!!! not bio shits . This mites aet resin!!! If you have it on mother plants, thow it out- immediately. All gens mutates


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## SequiaGarden (Apr 26, 2020)

Uncle Ben said:


> No two gardens are the same, forget what you read and learn to read your plants.
> 
> If you have a robust, effective root system, a RH of 20% is fine, all other factors considered. In fact, that kind of RH during latent flowering with indica doms is a blessing regarding possible bud rot or fungus issues.
> 
> ...


Facts


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## noobgrower69 (May 12, 2020)

Could somebody watch topic I made about wilting /droopy leaves and stems. Do u think its under water or overwater... im going nuts dont know whats wrong.


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## JoseVargas (May 21, 2020)

Could someone help I don't know if I'm over-watering my plants or if I'm giving them to less water yesterday I watered today I did not water the top layer of the soil got dry when I barely scrape it it's still moist


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## JoseVargas (May 21, 2020)

Could someone help me I don't know if I'm over-watering my plants or if I'm giving them to less water yesterday I water them today I did not water because they were wet earlier in the afternoon today they got dry on the top layer but when I scrape it I could still see that it's moist underneath only the top layer of the soil is dry


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## JoseVargas (May 21, 2020)

Cuz my plan look like it's being overwatered I water everyday but now I'm going to change it to every other day but I'm not too sure I don't know if I'm giving it to less water or too much someone can help me please today I let the top layer dry out but when I barely scrape it it's still moist


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## Ffwp710 (May 25, 2020)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> &#8220;Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!&#8221;, or, &#8220;My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?&#8221; Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the &#8220;solution&#8221; the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I&#8217;ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.
> 
> ...


Please help brotha!! I overwatered for sure about 3-4days ago, oldest plant is about 15 days old, youngest about 4-5. Using coco/perlite mix.


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## Growerpl (Jun 20, 2020)

Humidity or fertilization?


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## Johnnyz28 (Jul 4, 2020)

Growerpl said:


> View attachment 4600628View attachment 4600629View attachment 4600630View attachment 4600631
> 
> Humidity or fertilization?


My leaves on 1 plant look like that...but it's only been in FFOF and PH 6.3-6.7 tapwater. I gave it a good watering yesterday and it started looking better but after lights on more leaves are showing discoloration...


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## Subha Dhar (Jul 6, 2020)

I want to plant a marijuana tree.


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## Lemon69 (Jul 8, 2020)

Wow this thread has so much info in it!

Thanks Uncle Ben for posting this thread, my brain hurts lol


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## Stukid (Jul 11, 2020)

OneHit said:


> How do I tell if it has a robust effective rootsystem?


Nice green healthy plants!


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## TailsGrow (Jul 12, 2020)

A spot in the middle of the leaf, what can this be?


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## Kushgod900 (Jul 23, 2020)

Could any one help. I could be possibly feeding too much nutrients? I’m doing full dose per manufacture suggestions, maybe I’ll cut back next feeding. I also just topped and did some LST, it’s been a day since I stopped LST and a day since feeding. I saved overwatering for last, because I feel I have been mindful of not doing such crime, but could I be guilty of it? %$&!


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## Maineconnect (Aug 24, 2020)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> &#8220;Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!&#8221;, or, &#8220;My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?&#8221; Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the &#8220;solution&#8221; the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I&#8217;ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.
> 
> ...


Having these issues now. Feeding at 1.8 ec going to flush down to 1.2 tonight and observe. Do you think I’m pushing these ladies to hard at 1.8 ec I’m maxed out 3 gallons


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## Srcuffygrowe420 (Sep 4, 2020)

Could this be light bleaching there some shade of red n orange discolouration on the top of leaves


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## SickboyDilligaf (Sep 20, 2020)

I posted a thread but no help. Anyone know what’s up here with new growth. Long lanky curling


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## Maineconnect (Sep 20, 2020)

It was broad mites.. and I beat them using conserve. & other tactics


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## Maineconnect (Sep 20, 2020)

SickboyDilligaf said:


> I posted a thread but no help. Anyone know what’s up here with new growth. Long lanky curling View attachment 4689357View attachment 4689359


Looks to me like your running a bit hot in the nitrogen department


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## SickboyDilligaf (Sep 20, 2020)

Maineconnect said:


> Looks to me like your running a bit hot in the nitrogen department


I’m barley using Nitrogen yet. My soil was too hot but they are 5 weeks in now and I’m still not using my base nutes.


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## SickboyDilligaf (Sep 20, 2020)




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## Morsey81 (Sep 30, 2020)

OneHit said:


> What signs to plant exhibit if they are in a low humidity environment? My plants RH is 16-20% And I read thats way too low


Need minimum 50%


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## SickboyDilligaf (Sep 30, 2020)

Morsey81 said:


> Need minimum 50%


Depends what stage of growth you are in


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## SpideyManDan (Oct 18, 2020)

holy shit this thread is still going after 11 years...
Thats awesome


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## Madscientist43 (Oct 20, 2020)

Can anyone tell me what this might be necrotic edges very dark green. No nutes straight distilled ph d water to 6.3 helppp pics are from the last 2 weeks to now


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## Boru420 (Nov 26, 2020)

im in the last 2 weeks of flower for an auto, maybe even a week, but ive noticed the humidity dropping in my tent what was 50-60 is now 30-40, is this normal or a problem.


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## Morsey81 (Nov 28, 2020)

Boru420 said:


> im in the last 2 weeks of flower for an auto, maybe even a week, but ive noticed the humidity dropping in my tent what was 50-60 is now 30-40, is this normal or a problem.


Flowering stage should be in between 40-50. 2nd stage of flowering 35-45%. Keep it above 30%


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## Morsey81 (Nov 28, 2020)

30% is to low try to keep it above 35%-50% with proper air circulation


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## Morsey81 (Nov 28, 2020)

Sorry miss read didnt see you said last 2 weeks of flowering. 35%-40% is what you want. 30% may be a little to low but wouldnt hurt it but if it goes below 30 ull need to raise it. If you dont have a humidifer you can boil a pan of water and place it in ur tent but keep an eye on it raised humidity quick. A small USB humidifer works perfect to keep it at 35-40.


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## Morsey81 (Nov 28, 2020)

SickboyDilligaf said:


> Depends what stage of growth you are in


He said flowering stage witch should be no higher than 50%


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## Gorillaglue024 (Jan 7, 2021)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> &#8220;Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!&#8221;, or, &#8220;My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?&#8221; Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the &#8220;solution&#8221; the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I&#8217;ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.
> 
> ...


Does natural rain water contain microbes that are beneficial to plants?


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## SpideyManDan (Feb 1, 2021)

Gorillaglue024 said:


> Does natural rain water contain microbes that are beneficial to plants?


Idk if you can say they are beneficial, but you would definitely have some in the water just from it being from outside. If anything it will definitely contain some dissolved minerals in it.


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## Coodyscoops (Feb 8, 2021)

If I could choose the best grower on this forum, you would be it in 5 seconds...

i have learned through trial and error that i love my plants a little too much. What i do now is i allow the plant to use the soil until she tells me that she is hungry and instead of depending on the top soil, i just stick my finger or a long stick to see if she needs water... i never understood how a watering schedule works because no two waterings are ever the same


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## TheBudMan2522 (Feb 14, 2021)

I need some advice on my plants they are just not doing the greatest. I did have ph problems with my water source it was extremely low and adding nutes into it made it worse. I completely flushed with ph water around 7. The ph of water coming from pot was around 4.4 - 5. I’ve gotten that up to 6 with the flushing. I’ve read having between 6 and 6.5 is best for coco coir. But I haven’t seen any major improvements and leaves keep turning brown and crispy and dying. These pictures are from a day and a half after neutral ph flush. Temp in tent is 77-80 deg and humidity stays around 30-50. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.


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## FlexN80 (Feb 18, 2021)

I know this is a old thread but is there anyone on here who could help me Define what these pictures are showing


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## Gorillaglue024 (Feb 20, 2021)

FlexN80 said:


> I know this is a old thread but is there anyone on here who could help me Define what these pictures are showing


Ph issues in water I'm thinking my plants looked like that before I was using tap water then I started melting the ice cycles off my roof and watering them with it and it went away no build up of calcium or chlorine and its natural I'm guessing it's better to water with a low ph so u not adding or get a build of of nutrients


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## VolimPicke (Jun 12, 2021)

What soil moisture sensor is recommended for an outdoor grow?
Ideally, I would like to have four, one for each plant that I can leave in the soil.


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## luckybleu (Jul 25, 2021)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> &#8220;Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!&#8221;, or, &#8220;My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?&#8221; Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the &#8220;solution&#8221; the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I&#8217;ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the post U.B. I learned less is usually more years ago but I needed the reminder.Im stressed about 1 plant now,1st time growing outside here an its a new learning curve.Im thinking now because of so much rain the plant is overrated. What do you think ? Thanks


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## GanjaJack (Jul 27, 2021)

I've never been real successful with soil, but found most of my solutions with soil to come from converting to wick method.


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## SRT_designs (Sep 1, 2021)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> &#8220;Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!&#8221;, or, &#8220;My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?&#8221; Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the &#8220;solution&#8221; the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I&#8217;ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.
> 
> ...


That was a good read and definitely a lot of useful info!! Thanks


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## Árboles verdes (Oct 7, 2021)

Uncle Ben said:


> *PLANT MOISTURE STRESS** - symptoms and solutions* (revised Jan. 12, 2009)
> 
> Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> &#8220;Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!&#8221;, or, &#8220;My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?&#8221; Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the &#8220;solution&#8221; the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I&#8217;ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these coflowering than during the vegetative stage.
> 
> 4. Overwatering - this practice only serves to weaken the root can anyone help me out please, not sure if salt buildup or too much light. I was thinking of flushing with light nutes


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## raggyb (Oct 7, 2021)

if you suspect salts I say flush in a sink with 2-3x the pot size amount of water. go as slow as you need to so it all goes through. it won't recover right away and it probably will not need to be watered again for a long time. then start up easy again with flower nutes and make sure you have some K and Ca. just a suggestion. not sure about the too much light problem.


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## Árboles verdes (Oct 7, 2021)

Thanks man


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## Solo0420 (Oct 17, 2021)

ok so these are around 12 days old it's got good drainage the soil is a organic potting soil mixed with mushroom compost and chucky wood chips I jumped the gun and used old nutes to early one I think it was to much to early even tho I only used what was recommended ph was 6.5 I make the mix in 1 gal jug then fill a solo cup up and split between the two plants watering when it's dry the nutes are from about 5 yrs ago I think they are the problem that and way to early what do yall think


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## raggyb (Oct 18, 2021)

Solo0420 said:


> ok so these are around 12 days old it's got good drainage the soil is a organic potting soil mixed with mushroom compost and chucky wood chips I jumped the gun and used old nutes to early one I think it was to much to early even tho I only used what was recommended ph was 6.5 I make the mix in 1 gal jug then fill a solo cup up and split between the two plants watering when it's dry the nutes are from about 5 yrs ago I think they are the problem that and way to early what do yall think


funny I reply a lot in this thread and I'm not that great at this. But I know wood chips are no good and it looks like you have no perlite. Is there enough holes in the bottom of your solo? Are you saying you give 1/2 gallon per plant? Holy crap? You don't need any nutes when this small. Your avatar looks like you have done better so what's the story there?


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## Solo0420 (Oct 22, 2021)

yes I've done better this is my second indoor grow my avatar is from my out door grow my first Indoor went off with out a hitch lol I never really used perlite and I thought what I bought for potting soil already had that in there and it does not I have a bag coming in the mail I have to get everything onine nobody sells shit around here unless I drive 2hrs away so it's definitely not a draniage issue it is the nutes way to early but what I was doing was just mixing up a gallon at a time but only splitting a solo cup of water between the two girls but now that I'm pretty sure it's the nutes shocking them I flushed with just 6.5 hydro and it's been two day since I'll post pics later thanks for getting back tho very appreciative to you guys on here we brought eachother long ways keep growing big dawg


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## Three Berries (Oct 22, 2021)

Seedlings don't need nutes until the start getting true leaves.


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## Solo0420 (Oct 22, 2021)

you guys think it's ok to pot up then mix in some perlite and sprinkle in a slow burn top coat or should I hold out and flush with 6.5 for another week roots are showing threw one or two bottom holes theres definitely plenty of hols I got 8 in each solo cup 4 in the bottom and 4 around the bottom sides but there's no way it's crowded


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## raggyb (Oct 23, 2021)

if it were me I'd say there can't be much roots they are so small so you risk shocking them if you uppot right now so i think you have to accept they are going to go slow for a while in this setup. just water plain for now. when they start growing up pot but i think it's more than a week away.


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## Solo0420 (Oct 25, 2021)

they actually snapped back and caught up I think they look good for just starting there 3rd week from seed


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## raggyb (Oct 26, 2021)

Solo0420 said:


> they actually snapped back and caught up I think they look good for just starting there 3rd week from seed


nice, they look good. Amazing plant this is.


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## Donnieray (Oct 28, 2021)

Great post with some good information for people.


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## iceman3000 (Nov 24, 2021)

Need a little help Fams! 20+ and seams to come across things I don’t have the answers for.. so we are seeing this problem usually about 1 to 2 plants for a room some 230 to 250 plants per room.. symptoms are like the plant didn’t get watered even though it still has plenty away to the pot.. it’s like it just crashes once the first signs are exhibited usually within 24 to 36 hours the full plant will crash but not die.. I have kind of ruled out all subterranean pest but I could be wrong.. it’s not strain specific like I said very random here are some pictures of a Mac that’s showing early signs it starts usually with 1 arm and moves on like I said it seems like the plant went completely dry is the only thing I Can say it reminds me of.. obviously everything is in balance because none of the other plants are showing signs so not a pH, nuit or environment Any help would be great


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## Rurumo (Nov 24, 2021)

Uncle Ben wrote some real gems back in the day.


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## Kushash (Nov 24, 2021)

iceman3000 said:


> Need a little help Fams! 20+ and seams to come across things I don’t have the answers for.. so we are seeing this problem usually about 1 to 2 plants for a room some 230 to 250 plants per room.. symptoms are like the plant didn’t get watered even though it still has plenty away to the pot.. it’s like it just crashes once the first signs are exhibited usually within 24 to 36 hours the full plant will crash but not die.. I have kind of ruled out all subterranean pest but I could be wrong.. it’s not strain specific like I said very random here are some pictures of a Mac that’s showing early signs it starts usually with 1 arm and moves on like I said it seems like the plant went completely dry is the only thing I Can say it reminds me of.. obviously everything is in balance because none of the other plants are showing signs so not a pH, nuit or environment Any help would be great View attachment 5034461View attachment 5034462View attachment 5034463View attachment 5034464


Looks like more than one problem. All pics especially the third pic leaf in the lower left corner looks like it might be bug damage.
Possibly spider mites.
Might want to start a new thread.


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## Sif1 (Dec 1, 2021)

OneHit said:


> What signs to plant exhibit if they are in a low humidity environment? My plants RH is 16-20% And I read thats way too low


Your RH is way too low. Minimum RH coming to the end of flowering is 30%, And that's pushing it.


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## Raptor1023 (Yesterday at 4:11 AM)

I made a post in a different listing, i was told this is heat stress, temp 75-80 humidity 55-59 blue dream, mh 600 w, 4x4, coco with 30% perlite, watering every 4 hours week 5 since seed. i can show another photo, inbetween the veins its bublling and turning yellow on other leaves, two different blue dream strains in this tent, only one showing any stress....any help would be appreciated.


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