# Does anyone trim the small branches off of the main branches coming off of the trunk?



## warnerwh (Aug 14, 2010)

The branches that have so little bud on them that most of them get tossed due to the fact they're more work than they're worth. Those are the only branches I'm curious about. I started to cut most of them off of one plant to do a comparison and decided it would be smarter to ask here first. 

These branches yield so little it seems like it may be better to cut them off so the rest of the plant will do better. Or would it be harming the health and yield. I've always cut a few off but have been afraid to take even half or more of these small branches off. If you do take any off when is the best time? If anyone has a definitive answer to these questions I'd appreciate hearing it. Thanks


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## phyzix (Aug 14, 2010)

Try to take them off a little while before the plant goes into flowering. This gives the plant time to focus on growing a larger top which in turn will produce a larger cola.


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## jesus of Cannabis (Aug 14, 2010)

the bottom 1/3rd of my girls are bare.


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## homebrewer (Aug 14, 2010)

I only take the bottom one or two small branches off for 2 reasons: they never produce anything substantial and they're just that much more work when it comes to trimming. Plus, air can circulate a little better with a few spindly branches missing.


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## PotPower (Aug 14, 2010)

I take them off during Veg. about every other week, use some razor sharp clippers to cut them clean off.
Improves air circulation and energy from plant gets concentrated towards the upper parts, also the lower branches is where buggers like to hide so this helps keep the pests down if you don't have control over them already. 
You can also clip some of the large fan leaves that are blocking your light but do not rape the ladies!


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## warnerwh (Aug 15, 2010)

Potpower: Don't take off fan leaves. The more healthy leaves the more bud. I used to think the same thing about cutting fan leaves but I was wrong. Read up on how plants work, those leaves are precious to bud production.


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## darkdestruction420 (Aug 15, 2010)

homebrewer said:


> I only take the bottom one or two small branches off for 2 reasons: they never produce anything substantial and they're just that much more work when it comes to trimming. Plus, air can circulate a little better with a few spindly branches missing.


They would work great as flowering clones as well, try it once and you'll probally never stop doing it. lol


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## darkdestruction420 (Aug 15, 2010)

leaves dont stop the energy from the light continuing completely, they take something like 15% and the rest goes on. It was either bricktop or uncle ben who taught me that. so taking off fan leaves to expose growth points makes absolutely no sense.


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## odbsmydog (Aug 15, 2010)

removing sucker shoot branches off the bottom is defferent though because they have tiny leaves and just waste energy. they arent talking about removing big fan leaves off the branches.


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## homebrewer (Aug 15, 2010)

darkdestruction420 said:


> They would work great as flowering clones as well, try it once and you'll probally never stop doing it. lol


 I don't believe in the practice of cloning flowering plants, plus I have 3 moms in a perpetual state of veg .


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## darkdestruction420 (Aug 16, 2010)

what do you mean by dont believe in it? just wondering.

other guy-
"You can also clip some of the large fan leaves that are blocking your light but do not rape the ladies!"
Actually, i was referring to this when i brought that up.


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## warnerwh (Aug 16, 2010)

phyzix said:


> Try to take them off a little while before the plant goes into flowering. This gives the plant time to focus on growing a larger top which in turn will produce a larger cola.


That's a good idea. Thank you. Now I want to know "why didn't I think of that?"


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## homebrewer (Aug 16, 2010)

darkdestruction420 said:


> what do you mean by dont believe in it? just wondering.


 I don't believe it to be a 'best practice'. In a perfect world, a grower should have a mom in a constant state of veg, ready to supply cuttings at all times. If that's not possible, the grower should clone before a plant moves into the flower room.


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## darkdestruction420 (Aug 16, 2010)

but why? is it because you believe in the myth that vegging clones are superior to flowering clones?(not trying to say it in a rude way or anything, just like the rest of this post, I'm not looking to start a fight, lol) Have you ever seen this info ive posted on here about a billion times? It destroys the myth imo. Try it once and youll never go back to veg clones. Taking those useless lower branches around day 21 of flower and cloning them is much more optimal than just throwing them away. Also, clones taken from a flowering plant make incredible mother plants when reverted, you should really think about it and at least give it a shot. Heres the info i promised ya-
What is a Flowering Clone?

This question arises just about everytime I mention the wonderful advantages of the Flowering clone. So, to answer a few questions that get asked frequently. I see a need for this post. A long while back a man named feral introduced us to a new way of taking clones that has taken away the need to top plants or try the fimming technique. Not only do they root well. They also will blow you away with how fast they develop branches. 

What is a flowering clone? 
Simply put, it is a clone taken at or around 21 days flowering or later. Day 21 seems to be the best time but clones can be taken at any point thereafter and you will get the same effect. Keep in mind. This isnt written in stone. I dont have facts for you but I do have experience with these litte giants. I just want to share something that may increase a yeild for someone out there. Keeping the numbers of plants down is a good idea for alot of growers out there. Medical growers often will have limits. If your out there and you have a medical card. It cant be stressed enough that you follow the guidelines. You guys are the bright future for mj reform in many countries. I can only envy you at the moment but one of these days I hope to be able to grow without so much fear. Okay, that said...lol. I knew I shouldnt have eaten those cookies before starting to write today...lol. I have taken clones just prior to harvest and had no problem rooting them. There are many myths out there concerning a flowering clones ability to root. As in many myths the clones get a bad rap. The truth is, a flowering clone is a fully mature plant. It is ready and willing to root quickly to continue its flowering process. The cambium layer is mature at this point making the formation of roots easier. The cambium layer is a celluar layer just below the bark from where the roots come from. So, truth is. They will and do root well. 

Why use a flowering clone? 
This is a simple question to answer. Just take a look at the attatched pictures. The branching power of the flowering clone is unbelievable compaired to any other clone I've dealt with. In fact, one usually has to prune some of these branches before flowering starts to direct energy into the larger cola's. I guess the proper question here is why one wouldnt use a flowering clone? I have seen products out there that boast that they stimulate branching. Lol.... why spend money on that when massive branching is simply a few clips away? Let me give you an example. I am currently growing a scrog with a single plant on each side. The screens are 3'x3'. I have 112 holes to be filled in each screen. Out of the 224 holes only 24 do not have a budsite in them. I counted the budsites on one half of one screen and came up with 62 so far and Im only 23 days into flowering so far. I've done seed grows in this fashion and never come up with the amount of sites I get with flowering clones. Another great application for the flowering clone is growing outdoors. I gave thirty of these little jewels to an outdoor cultivator a few years back. All the plants stayed low and got super bushy. To avoid detection a small profile plant is ideal for outdoor cultivators. Try this method once and I imagine you will never take a vegging clone again. 

What is the best method to grow these clones? 
I prefer a Scrog (screen of green) but alot of people out there use them for the natural way of growing. These clones are just plain old effective no mater which way you grow. They can even be used in the SOG (sea of green) method. Flowering clones in this application will grow straight up and form a nice large cola about 14-18 inches long if started into flowering at less than 6inches. Hydro bubblers, ebb n flo, turbotank, coco or soil these babies rock. 

How do I take a Flowering Clone?
Just as you would any other clone. No special handling is needed here. Treat the clones as you would any other. Cut, scrap, dip and then into the medium. Is this your first time taking cloning? Have no fear. Just jump in there and clip away at them. Take a few more clones than you expect to use. This way if a few fail, you will have enough to get started. There are numerous guides and how to threads at this site to help you with the details (use the search tool to find what you need). I often times see new gardeners that are apprehensive about taking clones but these fears are quickly taken away with a little hands on experience. You have to find a system that works for you and stick with it. Remember the old saying, if it aint broke dont fix it. Well, that applies in cloning. Once you find what works for you stay with it. 

How long do they take to root? 
These clones usually are a little slower to regenerate but not to bad. I average about 14days till I start to see roots coming out the bottom of the rockwool cubes. That time will vary a little it seems with different strains. Some of them take forever and some root quickly. The clones should stay perky and upright. A small flo right above the humidity dome is all they need for light. Remove the humidity dome at least once a day to allow some fresh air inside. Do not walk off and forget about it. They will die quickly if left in the open air to long without a root system to support them. If the plants begin to wilt while the hood is off. This tells you that they have not formed roots yet. They still rely on the humidity to support their needs. Also, keep an eye out for new growth forming. Once it starts to emerge you have roots forming and the plant is responding well to its environment. Once I see roots starting to poke out the bottom I remove the paper and sink them into whatever medium I'm using. I normally will not wait for many roots to show. Once they show a few roots they can be transfered.The mature clone will start to throw out unserated leaves at first and it kinda looks a little odd. Not to worry though. Right behind the unserated leaves will emerge the normal leaf sets. Once they start to come around you will see the branching ability of these clones. Sometimes its best to at least tie down some main branches to promote a wider plant. Multiple cola's will form from these tie downs. A week prior to flowering a pruning session happens and once more at the two week period of flowering. You have to remember to leave yourself a few nice clones to be taken in the third week. 

What mixture of nutrients do I use for these clones?
This may be a debateable item but this is what I do. I use a one gallon milk jug and keep it just for clones. I let the chlorine burn off first. Then add a capful of bloom, capful of B1 complex, capful of h2o2 and one half teaspoon of Dark Energy. I then soak the rockwool cubes in the solution overnite and then select my clones when the lamps come on in the morning. Since I've started using this mixture I have had minimal yellowing in the clones and the sucesss rate has been better. 

Warmth is Key! 
Important to remember that a little warmth for the new cuttings helps them along. I place my small container on top of a towel that rests upon a normal household heating pad on the low setting. This extra warmth not only keeps the new cuttings warm and cozy. It also makes the dome sweat keeping it damp constantly. I always add a small amount of mixture mentioned above to the rocks below. Then its time to sit back and wait. Dont ya hate that part? lol. 

Will these clones improve my yeild?
Lol.... compaired to topping and fimming yes this will improve your harvest and make it happen faster. I truely do not think Im going out on a limb here (lol). When I say they will improve your grows I can say from experience that if done correctly it will without a doubt. When you top a plant everything stops. With a flowering clone that never happens. Never a slowdown. Its full tilt boogie from the time they start to regenerate till harvest time.


The pictures below speak volumes for the clones. I've been using them for a long time now and well, I just cant see another way of getting this much out of a plant. Give it a try and see for yourself. Have fun and stay safe, greenmonster714
You can clone a plant at any time in it's life cycle. Top branches are the hardest to clone though as they hold most of the growth hormones (auxins) When you top or bend a top over to where it's below some of the lower branches you redirect these auxins to lower branches which is why you suddenly get a rush of growth from the lower branches. The auxins have been redirected. By cloning lower branches you avoid alot of the growth hormones as they are in the top branches. This is why lower branches clone easier. They can concentrate on root developement instead of upwards growth.
I hope this makes sense here. I just medicated and it's some good stuff.

rf

PS Here are the pictures that were suppose to go to the main post.


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## homebrewer (Aug 16, 2010)

darkdestruction420 said:


> but why? is it because you believe in the myth that vegging clones are superior to flowering clones?(not trying to say it in a rude way or anything, just like the rest of this post, I'm not looking to start a fight, lol) Have you ever seen this info ive posted on here about a billion times? It destroys the myth imo. Try it once and youll never go back to veg clones. Taking those useless lower branches around day 21 of flower and cloning them is much more optimal than just throwing them away. Also, clones taken from a flowering plant make incredible mother plants when reverted, you should really think about it and at least give it a shot. Heres the info i promised ya-
> What is a Flowering Clone?
> 
> This question arises just about everytime I mention the wonderful advantages of the Flowering clone. So, to answer a few questions that get asked frequently. I see a need for this post. A long while back a man named feral introduced us to a new way of taking clones that has taken away the need to top plants or try the fimming technique. Not only do they root well. They also will blow you away with how fast they develop branches.


Interesting read, but it didn't address whether reverting a plant from flowering to veg is stressful or not. According to Cervantes:



> ...clones taken from a rejuvenated female plant tend to be less potent and weaker





> ...Each time a mother is forced from vegetative growth to flowering and back to vegetative growth, her genetic integrity diminishes.


Personally I think it's common sense not to clone a flowering plant, but I'm no scientist, nor am I limited on space where I can't have a handful of moms in a constant state of veg. But there no doubt that the cuttings appear to grow differently.


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## OZUT (Aug 16, 2010)

Scribed to read later.


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## RavenMochi (Aug 16, 2010)

homebrewer said:


> Interesting read, but it didn't address whether reverting a plant from flowering to veg is stressful or not. According to Cervantes:
> 
> Personally I think it's common sense not to clone a flowering plant, but I'm no scientist, nor am I limited on space where I can't have a handful of moms in a constant state of veg. But there no doubt that the cuttings appear to grow differently.


 &#8224;L&#8224; most of us aren't lucky enough space to have that many mothers, hence why so many of us are intristed in learning practices that fall under "not optimal" ....show off...  
Though due to them taking longer to root, if I had the option I would have constant veg'ed mothers, but its not gonna happen...


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## homebrewer (Aug 16, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> &#8224;L&#8224; most of us aren't lucky enough space to have that many mothers, hence why so many of us are intristed in learning practices that fall under "not optimal" ....show off...
> Though due to them taking longer to root, if I had the option I would have constant veg'ed mothers, but its not gonna happen...


 Just take the cutting from a vegging plant before it goes into flower.


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Aug 16, 2010)

I just took clones from 4 plants that were under 12/12 for 2 days....I think I will be fine on reverting back to veg....haha


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## darkdestruction420 (Aug 17, 2010)

Thats cool homebrewer, to each is own. It has never caused my *mother* plants problems and ive never had problems with the clones either. *regular* cloning stresses the plants just as much as when you take a flowering clone imo, and if you mean stress the flowering mom they were taken from, well, you were gonna chop them branches off anyway. You also know how i feel about jorge cervantes and his advice most of the time. lol

ravenmochi, i would not say that way is optimal or better than flowering clones at all. I personally do consider flowering clones the optimal way to clone and i guess he considers his the optimal way, but thats perfectly fine. We both have the right to our own opinions and such. Sometimes different things work better for/to different people.


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## natelandros (Aug 17, 2010)

Thanx darkdestruction420.


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Aug 17, 2010)

I first LST my ladies for 3-4 weeks then throw a screen on em for another 2-3 just to give each bud its own space and keep the canopy even.....I trim off any bud site(not the fan leaf) or whole branch that's not poking thru when switching to flower then do it again about mid flower(bud sites will try to regrow)....makes for juicy nuggets...........peace


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