# Legalization Predictions



## LeeGullEyes (Mar 29, 2011)

I think that when Cali leegullizes in 2012 and they go from being broke to being the most prosperous state in the US other states will follow. Obama will change his policy [video=youtube;LvUziSfMwAw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvUziSfMwAw[/video]. I don't believe it will be leegull under federal law but I do believe The states will be given choice. Than the UN will change their policy (Only 2 countries not in the UN) and gods plant will be leegull worldwide!!

What do you think?


----------



## maariic (Mar 29, 2011)

*I am not sure for any new details, bu what I heard this autumn is that Cali voted not to legalize. Why do you think that it will be done in 2012? *


----------



## growone (Mar 29, 2011)

many of us are still dealing with the the aftermath of prop 19, there's still a lot of disappointment with many grow site members
some momentum was lost with that vote, but it's possible that 2012 could be the year
money wise, well, there was an article in the cnn web page today called 'where are the mj millionaires'
was oriented towards the situation in Colorado where state regulations are really driving up costs
i guess it would depend a lot on the law passed, it would have to be a very strong protection for growers rights, otherwise state regulation will suck out the profits with thousands of fees, regulations, and taxes


----------



## LeeGullEyes (Mar 29, 2011)

maariic said:


> *I am not sure for any new details, bu what I heard this autumn is that Cali voted not to legalize. Why do you think that it will be done in 2012? *


There is another vote in 2012 and it is during a presidential election. According to this article http://www-958.ibm.com/software/data/cognos/manyeyes/visualizations/presidential-vs-mid-term-elections twice as many 18-29 year olds show up for presidential elections opposed to midterms. Polls show that the youth support legalization much more than older generations so the odds are much better.


----------



## maariic (Mar 29, 2011)

*But don't you think those midterms will go to this vote specially to vote against mj?* *If they went last year then they will go next year as well. Or **are **you hoping that more of them will be passed away?  I don't know what is the attitude in your nation, but in our country those people that I have spoken with - four from 5 will say that mj is the shortest way to other drugs. Our society isn't educated enough about pros and cons of mj. This is because objective researches are not shown globally. What are pros and cons of American society? 
*


----------



## BoomBiddyBye (Mar 30, 2011)

States are starting to decriminalize marijuana, and maybe in 2012, some states will even legalize it, but on a federal level, mj will never be legal, simply because of the money it would cost the government...

Giving compensation to all of the people who have been busted with some kush would cost billions of dollars... to think that every 14 seconds, an american is busted for weed, i don't think they would be willing to pay for this... 

On a state level though, i think its fucking great! Maybe some states will wake up and realize that legalizing marijuana will bring their states billions of dollars every year, tax rates would drop, deaths from alcohol, and cigarette smoking might drop... so many positive things would happen... All we need is 1 state to legalize, and all the other states to follow


----------



## HuffPuppy (Mar 30, 2011)

Uh... why on earth would the government have to compensate anyone for being busted? They did something illegal when a law was in place. If its no longer illegal, then on your way. Its not its retroactive...


----------



## growone (Mar 30, 2011)

HuffPuppy said:


> Uh... why on earth would the government have to compensate anyone for being busted? They did something illegal when a law was in place. If its no longer illegal, then on your way. Its not its retroactive...


probably won't happen, probably, but the law can take strange twists and turns
someone could try to sue, which likely would be tossed out, but if such a case ever got to a jury
again, strange things happen in the courts(sometimes), but i think unlikely


----------



## Jankedyjoe (Mar 31, 2011)

The law thatd didn't pass didnt hut anything steam wise. Nobody who read the law wanted it. It was basicaly cutting out anyone who wasnt a massive cooperation. You needed a massively expensive permit, basically like liquor license. People want it legalized, not made into the new cigs. You know the second they get a chance, they will start adding addictive things and get it delegalized all over again once we all start getting cancer suddenly. Obviously, its because we didnt "test" mary jane enough. All the politicians would sit there with shit eating grins as we start dying left and right "we told you so, marijuana is bad news, m'kay!" 

Don't give them the satisfaction of "being right" because the second we give them the chance, they will make themselves right, no matter what it takes. They know that if its legalized, it will cost them billions and billions of dollars. Not because they will have to pay people, which they wont, laws arnt passed retroactively, its because of hemp. Marijuana got a bad red so they could take hemp out. Hemp could straight up save the entire planet. Remove social barriers, bring everyone to an equal footing. Socialism is the greatest concept ever made, it was just brought around at the wrong time and implemented terribly. They never made a straight socialism setup. They always tainted it, and made everyone miserable, thats why it doesnt work. It will never work when they is a shortage of things. With hemp, we could feed the entire world, fuel the entire world, clothe the entire world and even house the entire world. All without breaking a sweat (comparatively). Everything would cost next to nothing. They grew 40 ft hemp trees that took about 3 years to get that big, in the 1700's! Thats a 40ft tree, that can do anything any other tree can do, besides look pretty as siding. Deforestation would stop, pollution would go WAY down, it burns like 40-60% cleaner than fossil fuels, also its in the top 5 plants for conversion of CO2 to O2, greenhouse effect, this ones aimed at you!

In the end, if someone found a MASSIVE deposit of diamonds, where they just grew by the feet per day (whether its possible or not isnt the point) it would drive the price of them way down. The prices are all determined by availability. When there is a shit ton of something thats completely renewable, prices go down. Nobody wants to spent $85 filling up there tank, when a better alternative is there for $5 to fill the tank. These prices would be stable since hemp grows so well everywhere. Send seeds to africa, they will gorw in there shit soil, then eventually make there shit soil better by penetrating and adding nitrogen to the soil. Eventually, they could grow good food in it.

In short, people pretend that legalizing mary jane will make tons of money. The gov knows thats not true. The prices now are not because its so difficult to produce, its because its so dangerous. Without the danger, the price drops and the availability goes up. They know no one will spend $80 on anything, no matter how good it is, when they can pop some seeds outside. Yes,it wouldnt be the same quality, but so cheap. Everything would be cheap, we could feed ourselves for next to nothing, building materials, next to nothing, everything would be next to nothing. It would only be practicle to go with a straight socialist economy at that point. There would be no real profit anywhere. No profit for single individuals that is. It could easily support the entire world, but single people wouldnt get rich, which is wha they want. They want to stay rich, they want to keep us down, they want to keep the social order. Hemp would destroy it all, but save us all at the very same time.


----------



## growone (Mar 31, 2011)

Jankedyjoe said:


> The law thatd didn't pass didnt hut anything steam wise. Nobody who read the law wanted it. ....


it wasn't perfect, there were flaws, but that wasn't why it didn't pass
remember the turnout for the under 30 voters? i think it was around 10% - it was very low
so you had a much older voter turnout, which gave the predictable result
so maybe no steam lost, that's tough to judge, 2012(which is a presidential election year) will likely generate a much larger turnout, which could be a game changer


----------



## veggiegardener (Mar 31, 2011)

P19 was the most poorly written bill I've ever seen. I wonder if it was written for the benefit of trial lawyers? "Legalization" could mean many different things. I want a law that eliminates incarceration for users and growers.

Legalizing Cannabis won't generate money for the government unless it eliminates penalties for use.

The "justice" system views pot smokers as easy targets for fines and funding.

They'll fight tooth and nail to continue busting 'heads'.


----------



## boofin (Mar 31, 2011)

I think that the horizon looks good for the end of marijuana prohibition...

Although Prop 19 was shot down, Cali is learning from its mistakes and drafting a new bill with what they learned... They are taking in the opinions from growers, lawyers, police and everybody to draft something better for 2012... Oregon is collecting signatures for a vote for 2012, Washington is collecting signatures for a vote this year maybe!

There is a strong push in New England to overthrow marijuana prohibition also... 

In addition to the states pushing, there are companies who are now publicly trading and collecting private financial interests and lobbying for the first time happened this last week on capitol hill. So there is now money, infastructure and public interest in making this happen. More than I have ever seen before... I dont know the future, but I know that it is up to all of us who would like to see the end of prohibition to do our part.

Unless Im wrong, these are the states currently pushing for a public vote for (or before) the 2012 election

Washington
Oregon
California
Rhode Island
Massachusetts


----------



## secretweapon (Apr 1, 2011)

Go washington, Oregon and cali ! !
Make it finally legal!


----------



## HuffPuppy (Apr 1, 2011)

Jankedyjoe said:


> The law thatd didn't pass didnt hut anything steam wise. Nobody who read the law wanted it. It was basicaly cutting out anyone who wasnt a massive cooperation. You needed a massively expensive permit, basically like liquor license. People want it legalized, not made into the new cigs. You know the second they get a chance, they will start adding addictive things and get it delegalized all over again once we all start getting cancer suddenly. Obviously, its because we didnt "test" mary jane enough. All the politicians would sit there with shit eating grins as we start dying left and right "we told you so, marijuana is bad news, m'kay!"
> 
> Don't give them the satisfaction of "being right" because the second we give them the chance, they will make themselves right, no matter what it takes. They know that if its legalized, it will cost them billions and billions of dollars. Not because they will have to pay people, which they wont, laws arnt passed retroactively, its because of hemp. Marijuana got a bad red so they could take hemp out. Hemp could straight up save the entire planet. Remove social barriers, bring everyone to an equal footing. Socialism is the greatest concept ever made, it was just brought around at the wrong time and implemented terribly. They never made a straight socialism setup. They always tainted it, and made everyone miserable, thats why it doesnt work. It will never work when they is a shortage of things. With hemp, we could feed the entire world, fuel the entire world, clothe the entire world and even house the entire world. All without breaking a sweat (comparatively). Everything would cost next to nothing. They grew 40 ft hemp trees that took about 3 years to get that big, in the 1700's! Thats a 40ft tree, that can do anything any other tree can do, besides look pretty as siding. Deforestation would stop, pollution would go WAY down, it burns like 40-60% cleaner than fossil fuels, also its in the top 5 plants for conversion of CO2 to O2, greenhouse effect, this ones aimed at you!
> 
> ...


I'm with you on supply/demand vs. pricing but can you cite sources for your other points? I'd like to do some reading.


----------



## Jankedyjoe (Apr 2, 2011)

Okay, so finding deeper sources on the 40ft plant in 3 years has been tough. To be honest for that one, I read it on a "information you should spread" thread that was posted on here a while back, which im having a difficult time locating, because i cant remember how it was worded for the title. I looked really hard for it. What I did find though was a lot of info about 25ft marijuana plants. Strains like KBC Brain (the kbc part might be off, im gonna cite it so you can look into it). 

This has stuff on the size of large marijuana plants. It says 18 feet, but I have read on here 25 feet is possible (but siting this place probably doesnt count). Hemp gets way bigger than marijuana, so breeding it right, for epic size, reaching 40 feet isnt very unpractical.

http://facts.randomhistory.com/2009/02/27_marijuana.html


This has a shit ton of info, which im pretty sure covers the rest of it.

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/v5-284.html


----------



## LeeGullEyes (Apr 3, 2011)

Jankedyjoe said:


> The law thatd didn't pass didnt hut anything steam wise. Nobody who read the law wanted it. It was basicaly cutting out anyone who wasnt a massive cooperation. You needed a massively expensive permit, basically like liquor license. People want it legalized, not made into the new cigs. You know the second they get a chance, they will start adding addictive things and get it delegalized all over again once we all start getting cancer suddenly. Obviously, its because we didnt "test" mary jane enough. All the politicians would sit there with shit eating grins as we start dying left and right "we told you so, marijuana is bad news, m'kay!"
> 
> Don't give them the satisfaction of "being right" because the second we give them the chance, they will make themselves right, no matter what it takes. They know that if its legalized, it will cost them billions and billions of dollars. Not because they will have to pay people, which they wont, laws arnt passed retroactively, its because of hemp. Marijuana got a bad red so they could take hemp out. Hemp could straight up save the entire planet. Remove social barriers, bring everyone to an equal footing. Socialism is the greatest concept ever made, it was just brought around at the wrong time and implemented terribly. They never made a straight socialism setup. They always tainted it, and made everyone miserable, thats why it doesnt work. It will never work when they is a shortage of things. With hemp, we could feed the entire world, fuel the entire world, clothe the entire world and even house the entire world. All without breaking a sweat (comparatively). Everything would cost next to nothing. They grew 40 ft hemp trees that took about 3 years to get that big, in the 1700's! Thats a 40ft tree, that can do anything any other tree can do, besides look pretty as siding. Deforestation would stop, pollution would go WAY down, it burns like 40-60% cleaner than fossil fuels, also its in the top 5 plants for conversion of CO2 to O2, greenhouse effect, this ones aimed at you!
> 
> ...


If I'm not mistaken I believe your saying that the fact that legalization will drop the price of cannabis so much that no one will make money on it. This is completely untrue and entry level macroeconomics prove why. Price is not controlled firms, firms are controlled by price. Firms will simply increase quantity supplied making less money off more sales, hence keeping profit the same. Also there are thousands of products that you can plant, but people still pay for them. Why grow your own weed when you can pay ten dollars and get high for a week.

Also companies are not going to add anything to their product. Just because cigarettes are there to compare cannabis to, doesn't mean every comparison that you can make will come true. They are completely different drugs and the only thing they have in common is that they can both be smoked.

And socialism?? Really? Just because cannabis "could" provide next to nothing living conditions, doesn't mean it will meet the unlimited needs of billions of people, which is the ONLY time a socialistic society could work. Cannabis does not meet unlimited needs, it simply makes living cost less. 

To meet unlimited needs, we would need something like a shrink/augmentation ray. You could buy a piece of bread and feed a village, by either making the bread huge or the people small, until the bread goes bad.


----------



## Jankedyjoe (Apr 3, 2011)

Where to start. Firstly, You wouldnt be growing "cannabis" to meet the "unlimited" needs, you would be growing hemp. Second, your right, people dont grow there own tomatoes always. Because when you grow a tomato plant, you get enough for maybe a month, and they go bad eventually, so you can even save them for very long. Cannabis on the other hand, you grow your own outside and if you pay it any real attention you are going to get enough to last several months, and it can be dried and saved. Most things that can be dried and saved, dont grow most places, cannabis on the other hand can grow pretty much anywhere, with varying levels of quality. Basically, you can produce plenty without a very large amount of work if its legal. You could even put a lot of work into it and produce even more and even better product. Not everyone would do this, but nobody and I mean nobody would ever pay $60 for a bag.

The would not add anything? We already add shit, they are just going to cut costs, and try and make more profit by trying to make it addictive. People smoked tobacco for many, many, many years without anywhere near the same level of issues we have. They put a lot of crap into tobacco. Little known fact: tobacco doesnt just come up with most of those things you hear as horror stories, they have to be there to get into them.

Back to the price and quantity. Look at corn, we could produce a lot more, and make it way cheaper. They force the price up, which doesnt mean it has to be there, it means they are making an active effort to go against potential. People are starving and we have no money. It hurts double paying to make less food. Hemp has even more potential than corn. Unless strict limitations are put in place to force price to remain high, availability and cost of production would make the price be horrible. Instead of trying to make sure its a money maker, make it gov run. Don't make it about profit, make it about keeping the people fed, clothed and the world a better place. Go in the sense of a park. Parks dont make money, they eat it, but they make people happy. They would not just increase supply to make the same proffit because there is a finit buyer base. Just having more product doesnt mean more money. Nobody has money these days to begin with. Making things cheaper would be great, and people could buy more but you have to make sure there is a demand, which would be easy to fill unlimited demand if allowed. As it is, we have this social stimga against it and would need to work on that already. People tote numbers like 40 billion around based on $60/8th. With legalization the price would fall dramatically. Demand wouldnt go up enough to make it back up to the 40 billion. There would obviously be money to be made, but not the wonder numbers people tote. In the end, its not about numbers though its about saving the world. Dropped prices would spread out the wealth more evenly.

The shrink/augmentation ray is here, hemp. It basically is a tree, but grows hundreds of times faster. Who needs to enlarge a loaf of bread 50 times when you can make 50 loafs? Hemp can meet the unlimited demand, but it takes a lot of work. You cant just grow 400 acres of hemp and put up a sign, expecting it to work out. You need to make it into another form. Make it into bread, but that takes time and money. The bread though, because just about anyone can do it would be very cheap. You just cant go into it hoping to make a ton of money. Money is made by limited resources. Hemp is effectively unlimited.

Socialism is the only basis it could truly work. With buisnesses competeing with eachother, nobody would want to do it in the end, unil only one big company remained, or maybe a few, but they would set the price. Hemp cant supply the world with every single thing, but the supplementation, along with the other things it cant would make a lot more people happy. Salt may stay the same, but when the food your using it on is pennies, it doesnt hurt as much.

Basically, your argument is "just because it can, doesnt mean it will", which really isnt arguing against me. My point is kinda that we have the chance to save everyone, but we wont take it because we are lazy pricks. It is there, it doesnt mean we will. The big issue is currently, we cant.


----------



## Jankedyjoe (Apr 5, 2011)

Also, to add the the idea of socialism. Straight socialism does have a way of making nobody want to be like a doctor. What this scenario would be, wouldn't be "everything for everyone", it would be "everything, everyone needs" Such as food, water and shelter. With a gov centralized food production based on hemp, we could make food free, but still have to pay for things like trampolines.


----------



## psychedelictripper (Apr 10, 2011)

boofin said:


> Unless Im wrong, these are the states currently pushing for a public vote for (or before) the 2012 election
> 
> Washington
> Oregon
> ...


I wouldn't characterize Massachusetts as being a strong candidate because of the wishy-washy-ness of the bill(various) sponsors. You have the Rep. Story who is championed but I wonder if anyone has ever heard her talk about her outlook. She is strictly motivated by $$$, believing if they tax and regulate it people will be lining up around the block just to have the chance of paying $800 an ounce for schwag. The lawyer who drafted a bill talks more like a wanna be politician arguing only with "talking points". Then there's the medical issue. Ma is a free healthcare state, I wonder how that will work? There isn't one voice. Have signatures been collected for ballot access? Only the people can force this issue. if you wait around for the legislature it'll be the end of time. Until there is a common voice and plan I don't see much happening. If the proposed bill is written like the CA one (that might of been designed for failure )then it will be a waste of time. Again who in their right mind is going to pay the tax they want to place on it? They need to -tax from the debate. Less taxes not more, that is the problem.


----------



## LeeGullEyes (Apr 28, 2011)

Jankedyjoe said:


> Also, to add the the idea of socialism. Straight socialism does have a way of making nobody want to be like a doctor. What this scenario would be, wouldn't be "everything for everyone", it would be "everything, everyone needs" Such as food, water and shelter. With a gov centralized food production based on hemp, we could make food free, but still have to pay for things like *trampolines*.


Lol I was trying to think of something extrinsic Hemp can not provide but you nailed it. Ive been thinking a lot about your socialism proposal. Had America been brought up on Hemp, life would be unfathomably different. Since Americans have todays culture, I believe the transition to a culture surrounded by hemp will be turbulent. My reason is very complex and I will do my best to explain...

Basic necessities (food clothes shelter) are obtained at the same place trampolines exist; the free market. However hemp has proven to be a source of these basic necessities and this will be hard for people to accept considering the capitalist motives of anyone who needs a paycheck to support a family. Wal-Mart will not take lightly to the fact that people returned to living off the land. The money spent on the necessities represents what a capitalist society is.

However I believe there is great potential in this making America perfect in the eyes of today. Imagine a CEO who no longer cares how much money his firm generates because he does't worry about feeding his family. The result would be a market no longer motivated by profit. Companies would make products to make good products because the next meal is guaranteed, regardless of profits. Thus creating a whirlwind of competition which is what a capitalist society thrives on, all while not really being capitalist.


----------



## veggiegardener (Apr 30, 2011)

The super rich aren't thinking about tomorrow's steak dinner. They're smart enough to realize our current world society is doomed. The depletion of cheap energy is going to make life very difficult for everyone but the select few who have accumulated enormous fortunes and a "getaway" plan. maybe a large island in Indonesia outfitted with wind turbines, farm ground, nice villas and a willing staff that appreciates the opportunity to survive.

If I had a billion dollars, that's what I'd be doing.

I'm not kidding. Things could collapse very quickly. All it will take is a few more natural disasters, coupled with damage to our fragile civilization.(Think Japan.)

I really doubt we'll see a spectacular disaster, a la Hollywood. Maybe a few million folks suffocating here, and others starving in Asia and Africa, snowballing into barbarism, world wide as collapse spread.

I doubt we'll hold things together for very much longer. Say, a maximum of twenty years, but it could also be next week.

Optimism is unhealthy.


----------



## LeeGullEyes (May 1, 2011)

veggiegardener said:


> The super rich aren't thinking about tomorrow's steak dinner. They're smart enough to realize our current world society is doomed. The depletion of cheap energy is going to make life very difficult for everyone but the select few who have accumulated enormous fortunes and a "getaway" plan. maybe a large island in Indonesia outfitted with wind turbines, farm ground, nice villas and a willing staff that appreciates the opportunity to survive.
> 
> If I had a billion dollars, that's what I'd be doing.
> 
> ...


 Idk what this has to do marijuana being legalized but the energy crisis has been solved and as soon as the patent is filed, electricity will be the cost of water. 
http://www.climatecentral.org/blogs/nocera-takes-solar-energy-for-the-masses-one-step-further/


----------



## veggiegardener (May 1, 2011)

LeeGullEyes said:


> Idk what this has to do marijuana being legalized but the energy crisis has been solved and as soon as the patent is filed, electricity will be the cost of water.
> http://www.climatecentral.org/blogs/nocera-takes-solar-energy-for-the-masses-one-step-further/


If things go as I expect, Marijuana legalization is going to be about eighth on your list of priorities. 

Obama is making an announcement, momentarily.

Maybe sooner than a week?


----------



## KlosetKing (May 1, 2011)

LeeGullEyes said:


> Idk what this has to do marijuana being legalized but the energy crisis has been solved and as soon as the patent is filed, electricity will be the cost of water.
> http://www.climatecentral.org/blogs/nocera-takes-solar-energy-for-the-masses-one-step-further/


 Not to pick a fight or anything, but i think its a bit naive to think that the crisis has been 'solved'. These kinds of breakthroughs have come and gone in the past. Ethanol was preached as a 'crisis eliminator' as well, but that market is very small and they are running into many foreseen and unforeseen problems that's keeping its wheels spinning and not really taking off on a large scale.


----------



## LeeGullEyes (May 3, 2011)

KlosetKing said:


> Not to pick a fight or anything, but i think its a bit naive to think that the crisis has been 'solved'. These kinds of breakthroughs have come and gone in the past. Ethanol was preached as a 'crisis eliminator' as well, but that market is very small and they are running into many foreseen and unforeseen problems that's keeping its wheels spinning and not really taking off on a large scale.


true but its also a bit nieve to think that oil will run out before it becomes obsolete


----------



## ChronicObsession (May 12, 2011)

Did the Slaves get *compensation* after the emancimapation? I don't know that answer, but if they did, than why the hell not marijuana victims? Surely, no marijuana law victim got whipped or lynched or lived in squaller... but sure enough, the fat balding old men that enacted these unjust laws about a plant like cannabis did IN FACT damage the lives of millions. The Marijuana laws of the USA displaced families, cut down financial success, cut down career success, cut down trust, trampled on privacy. How many business people made a stupid move and got busted, or maybe got ratted out, about marijuana, from a joint, to an 1/8th, to a QP, from local, state, to federal... how many lives are disturbed by the war-mongering anti marijuana federal government just about a plant that could be more noble than the smelly brown tobacco plant? I say the government should wipe our records clean when they do legalize it federally, in 2012 or 2020 or whatever, and give us 1 year supply of G13, some in prerolled ciggs, some in cannabis glycerine form, some in space oil form, and some in blond hash form. Amen, oh and maybe a government volcano vaporizer to go with that.


----------



## Motleyhead (May 13, 2011)

Hahaha a government vaporizer "Now blows more smoke than ever before!"


----------



## KlosetKing (May 14, 2011)

LeeGullEyes said:


> true but its also a bit nieve to think that oil will run out before it becomes obsolete


While i would like to agree with that, it sure doesn't seem like we are getting rid of it anytime soon.


----------



## beewfurd420 (May 31, 2011)

I need to find a good pro MJ site..i mean get involved a little more than i am...good convo so far =)..


----------



## 1gamma45 (Jun 1, 2011)

Once the money grubbing scumbags we call out Government cant rape us for anymore money on Wood and fosil fuels they will see the money being generated my MMJ and they will ofcourse ass rapes for that too.


Its sad the richest people in the Country will always find a way to get richer while keeping poor poor. The state this Country is in today in the closest its been to pre 1776. I wounder if the Boston Tea Party would be an act of terorisim today?????


----------



## veggiegardener (Jun 2, 2011)

Actually, considering what I've seen, I think it is naive to think oil can be replaced with anything other than solar or nuclear energy sources. The problem is the enormous cost of building enough new generating facilities to keep fuel prices low enough for Joe Sixpack to afford to get to work.

Gasoline has nearly doubled in the last year. I've heard predictions of $7 gas by summer's end.

If anyone is counting on Ethanol, forget it. The cost/benefit ratio is a loser.

Anyone who is optimistic about the future hasn't done their homework.

A suggestion:

Learn to garden, plant fruit trees, and save your seeds.


----------



## ford442 (Jun 2, 2011)

have all of you guys seen a hemp farm for real? i used to picture a bunch of moderately tall weed plants, but no - the stalks of the industrial hemp plants are the size of a football and they grow upwards of 30 feet! it is so much biomass and fiber that i cannot believe anyone would try to use corn or cut down trees for something that clearly can produce more resources in the same space/time..

and did you know that henry ford did not only build the first cars entirely out of hemp, but he intended them to all run on hemp oil as well??

it was when hemp was poised to completely replace Hearst's timber and oil monopoly that cannabis became illegal.. this is fact..


----------



## veggiegardener (Jun 3, 2011)

ford442 said:


> have all of you guys seen a hemp farm for real? i used to picture a bunch of moderately tall weed plants, but no - the stalks of the industrial hemp plants are the size of a football and they grow upwards of 30 feet! it is so much biomass and fiber that i cannot believe anyone would try to use corn or cut down trees for something that clearly can produce more resources in the same space/time..
> 
> and did you know that henry ford did not only build the first cars entirely out of hemp, but he intended them to all run on hemp oil as well??
> 
> ...



Historical fact!

The big problem with growing any crop for ethanol is that it takes food producing acreage to grow it.

"Extra" food no longer exists on this planet. A glut of food in one place(the USA, for instance) only means that more people are starving, elsewhere.

Field hemp has its place, but not where high end food crops can be grown.

AND PLEASE, no field hemp in California!


----------



## Sealight (Jun 10, 2011)

Optomistic, I really hope your right, but i still fear I won't live to see the day it's legal, it's a harmless plant, but it makes us passivists, and the right wing people at the top know and don't want that, because they'll lose if we have a country of passivists, but it would be for the best.


----------



## Farfenugen (Jun 26, 2011)

The day leglization happens, is the day when the poor get fed, the insane get let out of the institutions, gas is 49 cents a gallon, aliens make contact with Earth, bigfoot wanders out of the forest and into a diner, Jimmy Hoffa's remains are discovered next to Amelia Earhart's, Elvis comes out of hiding and Oliver Stone tells us that he shot JFK.


----------



## veggiegardener (Jun 26, 2011)

Farfenugen said:


> The day leglization happens, is the day when the poor get fed, the insane get let out of the institutions, gas is 49 cents a gallon, aliens make contact with Earth, bigfoot wanders out of the forest and into a diner, Jimmy Hoffa's remains are discovered next to Amelia Earhart's, Elvis comes out of hiding and Oliver Stone tells us that he shot JFK.


All those things happened last week, according to Fox News...

Legalization might happen, but only when it becomes THE issue during a campaign year.

It had a chance in late August of 2001 when the FBI murdered the owners of Rainbow Farm in Michigan.

Then 9/11 happened, and everything went to shit.


----------



## GOATHEAD (Jul 1, 2011)

there are alot of great points brought up here but the people proposing a socialist society are forgetting one thing, socialism will always fail because of one thing....human nature.most people are lazy bastards and will have no desire to work any harder than they have to, what insintive would they have? socialism removes the desire to excell. A real republic is the only form of gov. where all poeple start out with the same opportunity. NOTE: I didnt bring up democracy, but it not much better than socialism!


----------



## Farfenugen (Jul 2, 2011)

In Canada pretty much the entire thinking of the government is socialist, be they _no damn good_ NDPers or the Tories. The Libs and the Bloc, well they've been so far up everyone's asses to give a damn about anything but the status quo. No matter if legalization happens or not, there are those of us that will always continue along with our own status quo, that being, growing, smoking, toking and enjoying life to the fullest before the final orgasm takes us to that heady place in the clouds. I don't fear the law, fuck them. The law divides. 

And democracy does have its merits, but also its downfalls. (sigh) when the apes finally do take over, then we'll all be happy and content.


----------



## ford442 (Jul 2, 2011)

i am not sure exactly how this socialism vs capitalism thing relates to legalizing pot.. 
i have been reading at norml that the US is looking at pot rescheduling at a federal level right now.. it is just clinically insane to make the statement that pot has no established medical use anymore - especially knowing about the handful of federal marijuana patients who depend on a constant supply of pot to stay alive day to day..
also, i reiterate that the Mexican drug war is a vicious and disgusting actualization of prohibitionist misgoverning - you can't tell me that with a soft policy (think Amsterdam, Portugal) that we would still have body parts chainsawed and flung in the streets hour to hour - and again, we now know that these same cartels, which in my mind pose a direct threat to the safety of our own citizens, make a huge portion of their operating money by selling specifically marijuana to the united states for black market price.. take away the prohibition and remove the black market value for the sake of human lives! am i right?
i am just saying that the need to change the laws is an urgent thing - why can't we agree in california after all this time? i wanted prop 19 to pass, not because i thought it was perfect, but because it was a good step toward everyone agreeing and finally understanding about marijuana.. then we could make it a formally acceptable thing.. the next time i have a chance to vote for legalization in any form i am voting yes..


----------



## sniffer (Jul 2, 2011)

i dont vote ,, so there laws dont apply to me


----------



## veggiegardener (Jul 3, 2011)

ford442 said:


> i am not sure exactly how this socialism vs capitalism thing relates to legalizing pot..
> i have been reading at norml that the US is looking at pot rescheduling at a federal level right now.. it is just clinically insane to make the statement that pot has no established medical use anymore - especially knowing about the handful of federal marijuana patients who depend on a constant supply of pot to stay alive day to day..
> also, i reiterate that the Mexican drug war is a vicious and disgusting actualization of prohibitionist misgoverning - you can't tell me that with a soft policy (think Amsterdam, Portugal) that we would still have body parts chainsawed and flung in the streets hour to hour - and again, we now know that these same cartels, which in my mind pose a direct threat to the safety of our own citizens, make a huge portion of their operating money by selling specifically marijuana to the united states for black market price.. take away the prohibition and remove the black market value for the sake of human lives! am i right?
> i am just saying that the need to change the laws is an urgent thing - why can't we agree in california after all this time? i wanted prop 19 to pass, not because i thought it was perfect, but because it was a good step toward everyone agreeing and finally understanding about marijuana.. then we could make it a formally acceptable thing.. the next time i have a chance to vote for legalization in any form i am voting yes..


If the authors of P19 had the best interests of everybody at heart, they would have never added area limits for private grows. That limit was a greed bag's attempt to control production of Cannabis in California. Jim Gray's version is far more palatable.


----------



## ford442 (Jul 6, 2011)

but, would that be worse than what we have now? by now we could have been petitioning to remove the area restrictions - instead we are back where we started for more than a year.. i have had a few horror stories cross my path lately directly due to the horrors of california pot prohibition.. multiple lives lost.. i just want it to end....


----------



## veggiegardener (Jul 6, 2011)

ford442 said:


> but, would that be worse than what we have now? by now we could have been petitioning to remove the area restrictions - instead we are back where we started for more than a year.. i have had a few horror stories cross my path lately directly due to the horrors of california pot prohibition.. multiple lives lost.. i just want it to end....


Please remember that those of us who've been MMJ patients for more than a decade have been through a lot of court battles to clarify our current laws.

Get a recommendation and consider it cheap insurance against harassment.

Keep on supporting the passage of legalization, but please read critically. Laws are slippery, and the legal system, even slimier. Believe me when I say that our "justice" system isn't about justice.

It's welfare for power freaks.


----------



## LeeGullEyes (Jul 9, 2011)

ford442 said:


> have all of you guys seen a hemp farm for real? i used to picture a bunch of moderately tall weed plants, but no - the stalks of the industrial hemp plants are the size of a football and they grow upwards of 30 feet! it is so much biomass and fiber that i cannot believe anyone would try to use corn or cut down trees for something that clearly can produce more resources in the same space/time..
> 
> and did you know that henry ford did not only build the first cars entirely out of hemp, but he intended them to all run on hemp oil as well??
> 
> *it was when hemp was poised to completely replace Hearst's timber and oil monopoly that cannabis became illegal.. this is fact..*


I challenge anyone to find a worse event in American history than this. If you do its likely that it was caused by hemp being illegal. 911 and the war in Iraq just to name a few events that could have been avoided if Harry Anslinger was never born.


----------



## veggiegardener (Jul 10, 2011)

Overall, the United States is a better place to live than any other country on the planet,

BUT

It could much better, if States Rights were enforced by the Supreme Court.

Beheading every lobbyist in Washington DC would be a good start.


----------



## ford442 (Jul 12, 2011)

LeeGullEyes said:


> I challenge anyone to find a worse event in American history than this. If you do its likely that it was caused by hemp being illegal. 911 and the war in Iraq just to name a few events that could have been avoided if Harry Anslinger was never born.


Thank you.. This is an important fact since cannabis laws really are 100 years old.. almost pre Jim Crow era thinking... 

HEMP! HEMP! HEMP! HEMP! HEMP! HEMP! HEMP! HEMP! HEMP! HEMP!


----------



## hillbillybuds (Jul 15, 2011)

The butt headed government we have well never make pot legal, not in my life time. They make way to much money off of it right now. They also don't want people to have something that can help you live longer as than it would cost them way to much. They only want you to live until you are 62 years old so you can work for 40 years and pay your taxes, but not live to get S.S. They want you to pay in but not to live and them have to pay you back. Just like drug comp. why would they want you to have a plant to cure cancer and they make no money when they can make tons on bull shit pills ect. that well not help much anyway. Hell, why make a pill to stop the everyday cold for 1$ when they can sell you pills ect to just help fight the cold but does not stop it and make 20$. Like right now they have the ok to now grow pot so the can make pills from it but I would bet that the pills will never work to stop anything ( cold, cancer ect )even if they could. They will never let you have a pill for 10$ to stop cancer if they can make 20$ a pill to prolong your life a few more weeks so you can buy more 20$ pills. Shit its all about the money, only the money. Just like P19 in Cal., hell I would bet most if not all the growers voted no not yes as they didn't want to lose any money. Hell read the forums and you can see that the growers did not want it as they did not want to lose thier money. Anyway, it will never be legal until people like the government,drug comp. , dupont, gas comp. can all make billions from it. But to me it is free, I have and will always grow my own, F*&^CK them.


----------



## ford442 (Jul 15, 2011)

that is some brutal logic.. i agree with most of it.. and we are not talking about $20 cold remedies - i know firsthand that the end of life treatments take people for all they are worth - $1000 procedures on top of $1000 prescriptions to hang on to our disease ridden bodies for a few more weeks..
i still hold on to the hope that more and more people are becoming informed about these exact points - norml has found that a vast majority of older citizens want legalization.. once you are informed on the facts of the situation there is little ground to stand on saying that pot is harmful and not beneficial to people.. by uninformed standards we can say that all moderately harmful substances should be controlled so that us idiots won't ruin our lives somehow just because someone isn't threatening to beat us with a steel pipe.. our current drug czar michele leonhart believes that alcohol should be illegal!! she was GW Bush's choice!! remember that woman in the midwest running for office and saying that masturbation is evil? i think the levels of logic are about that low if we cannot get consensus within 5 - 10 years about putting pot on a state by state legality.. 

last friday the DEA issued this in response to a long awaited plea to have pot reclassified away from schedule 1 -

"(1) _Marijuana has a high potential for abuse._ The DHHS evaluation and the additional data gathered by DEA show that marijuana has a high potential for abuse. (2) _Marijuana has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States_. According to established case law, marijuana has no &#8216;&#8216;currently accepted medical use&#8217;&#8217; because: The drug&#8217;s chemistry is not known and reproducible; there are no adequate safety studies; there are no adequate and well-controlled studies proving efficacy; the drug is not accepted by qualified experts; and the scientific evidence is not widely available.
(3) _Marijuana lacks accepted safety for use under medical supervision. At present, there are no U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-approved marijuana products, nor is marijuana under a New Drug Application (NDA) evaluation at the FDA for any indication_. Marijuana does not have a currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States or a currently accepted medical use with severe restrictions. *At this time, the known risks of marijuana use have not been shown to be outweighed by specific benefits in well-controlled clinical trials that scientifically evaluate safety and efficacy."*

is that what you want our top officials saying to your children? to anyone? it is just plain wrong and the facts are going to come out.. schedule I. places pot in the top category along with heroin and PCP - on down in scedule II. we have less harmful things such as meth, coke and opium... i guess that we had the girls from south park make the list for us.. 

so, i disagree that we will not see legalization in our lifetimes.. it is just a matter of getting the proper information understood by the individuals involved..


----------



## keifcake (Jul 16, 2011)

Dont you love the vaugeness of all these risks they must protect us from?? 
The only risk they have in protecting is pharms...


----------



## ford442 (Jul 16, 2011)

yes.. true..
i consider pot to be much less harmful than alcohol..
so, who _*is*_ going to put marijuana through FDA drug approval?


----------



## psychedelictripper (Jul 17, 2011)

How about eliminate the fda and the money saved can be used to reduce the deficit. The alcohol industry isn't totally regulated, it's just taxed and more difficult to make yourself. Most people don't want to brew their own beer. If they tried to do a pilsner like the kind of beer they're used to buying they'd wind up thinking the cheap 6 pack of the champagne of beers was the ticket. Weed has it's problems too especially in curing but it's just that a weed and can't be regulated effectively. That's because it shouldn't. People spend tons of cash on lighting the darkness and never stop to think the sun has been doing a good enough job for gazillions of years. Maybe I should live under it's light instead of waiting for someone to mislead me down an artificially lighted path. Marijuana is a remarkable plant. Perfection is hard to compete with.


----------



## GattyBongz (Aug 9, 2011)

* 

weed needs to be legalized because today i went to buy a quarter ounce off my dealer but when i got there it was his friend standing with a bunch of lads (ass holes) with him and i was i was still chill then i bought the shit started to walk away and one of the lads comes up with his 3 mates and asks for a ciggy i give one to him and then he asks for all the buds back and i was like nah fuck off cunt and he was like nah give me the fucking buds and there was four of them so i was like fuck! and gave them half of it and then he asked for the rest while he held his fist to my face and i gave it and they fucked off with all of the shit im fucking ANGRY now!and im out $80AU ad worst of all im not highbut if weed was legal i wouldnt be buying of these shady assholes.​ 
*


----------



## tibberous (Aug 9, 2011)

GattyBongz said:


> <b>*
> 
> weed needs to be legalized because today i went to buy a quarter ounce off my dealer but when i got there it was his friend standing with a bunch of lads (ass holes) with him and i was i was still chill then i bought the shit started to walk away and one of the lads comes up with his 3 mates and asks for a ciggy i give one to him and then he asks for all the buds back and i was like nah fuck off cunt and he was like nah give me the fucking buds and there was four of them so i was like fuck! and gave them half of it and then he asked for the rest while he held his fist to my face and i gave it and they fucked off with all of the shit im fucking ANGRY now!and im out $80AU ad worst of all im not highbut if weed was legal i wouldnt be buying of these shady assholes.​
> </b>*


 Should have told him to piss when he asked for the cig. I'd give you some advise, but since your in AU, you probably can't get a gun.


----------



## LeeGullEyes (Sep 2, 2011)

ford442 said:


> Thank you.. This is an important fact since cannabis laws really are 100 years old.. almost pre Jim Crow era thinking...
> 
> HEMP! HEMP! HEMP! HEMP! HEMP! HEMP! HEMP! HEMP! HEMP! HEMP!


yea and the fact that pot is illegal is just a ridiculous as the jim crow laws. 40 years after the civil rights movement its hard to believe it was any other way. the same will be true with weed... hopefully sooner than later!


----------



## Dislexicmidget2021 (Sep 3, 2011)

Seemingly its going to be a matter of how broke we become Financialy as a nation,because our government wont do anything to actualy help our problem until a precipice has been reached that endangers the very center of their control.So it may just be that they will consider legalizing for the reason of getting there a$$es out of the hole,but that is if they are only halfway intelligent.


----------



## growone (Sep 3, 2011)

Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> Seemingly its going to be a matter of how broke we become Financialy as a nation,because our government wont do anything to actualy help our problem until a precipice has been reached that endangers the very center of their control.So it may just be that they will consider legalizing for the reason of getting there a$$es out of the hole,but that is if they are only halfway intelligent.


it's less about intelligence, and more about vested interests
the law enforcement business finds MJ its most lucrative franchise
big pharma doesn't see anything good coming from legal MJ, not for them anyways, again it's about money
there are no national propositions so California's 215 can't happen at the national level
breaking the back of the vested interests is what has to happen, and that has been a slow process


----------



## ford442 (Sep 3, 2011)

GattyBongz said:


> <b>*
> 
> weed needs to be legalized because today i went to buy a quarter ounce off my dealer but when i got there it was his friend standing with a bunch of lads (ass holes) with him and i was i was still chill then i bought the shit started to walk away and one of the lads comes up with his 3 mates and asks for a ciggy i give one to him and then he asks for all the buds back and i was like nah fuck off cunt and he was like nah give me the fucking buds and there was four of them so i was like fuck! and gave them half of it and then he asked for the rest while he held his fist to my face and i gave it and they fucked off with all of the shit im fucking ANGRY now!and im out $80AU ad worst of all im not highbut if weed was legal i wouldnt be buying of these shady assholes.​
> </b>*


i have had that happen.. but, so much worse things happen each day because of prohibition.. one of my oldest friends' dad was a grower - he had been busted a few times - this time it was with guns.. last time he was in prison he was raped badly and he hated the idea of going back so much that he killed himself this christmas.. when you follow the money you have mexicans cutting up a dozen corpses with chainsaws as you read this and throwing them into the street...


----------



## Rayne (Sep 4, 2011)

I think cannabis prohibition will become fully legal in the same manner that alcohol prohibition ended.

First the states then the federal government will finally stop dragging it's feet.


----------

