# Dyna-Gro vs Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur (AK47 Grow)



## homebrewer (May 5, 2011)

This showdown is going to be in the same manner as my https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/358562-dyna-gro-vs-general-hydroponics.html journal in that it wont be a simultaneous grow-off, but rather a direct comparison of the base nutrient lines offered by DynaGro and Advanced Nutrients. Ill be comparing things like pH stability, salt build up, plant performance, plant health, nutrient concentration levels, and of course final yield. 

I chose Connoisseur because its probably the most expensive, over-hyped base nutrient on the market and as a veteran grower, Im in a much better position to put out the truth about the actual performance of this product than some beginner who just doesnt know any better. After 11 years in this hobby, Ive settled into the no-frills DynaGro brand which offers total and complete plant nutrition and isnt purposely split up into multiple products. Im not starting this journal because Im unhappy with my current nutrient brand, I just want to post some honest and bullshiz free info about ANs most prestigious base nutrient. Welcome to the no-hype zone . 

The strain well be working with is Serious Seeds AK47, a strain Ive grown many times before and am very familiar with. Using DynaGro, my yields for the past four grows have all been between 20 and 21.3 ounces (most recent harvest numbers are not in yet) so this shall be the benchmark for ANs Connoisseur. In regards to the final product, Ill also be looking for differences or similarities in potency, aroma and flavor, all of which will be 'tested' for in a blind comparison. 

Now AN fanboys are probably among the most annoying members in this community and there will probably be a few following along. There will be no arguing, personal attacks, or just plain old newb-grower ignorance in this thread, just the facts as I post them throughout this comparison. Unwanted and unwarranted posts will be reported. Let the competition begin.

*My setup is a DIY Ebb & Flow system with 6 inch rockwool cubes and a 600 watt HPS hortilux. I flood two to three times per day for 15 minutes with weekly res changes and a pH in the high 5's. These plants were vegged with DynaGro Grow and were also topped. *


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## bestbuds09 (May 5, 2011)

Count me in.. I'm one of those that believe AN is overrated and overpriced...... I hate going to a hydro store where I'm @, they always try to sell me that bullshit. Anyhow I'm really interested in the ak47 yiull be growing. I've been looking for some good seeds from sensi. How good is sensis AK?


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## homebrewer (May 5, 2011)

So this being day 1 of flowering, there isnt much I can report on except for cost and concentration levels. If I have time, I'll get into the NPK ratios as well.

_Nutrient concentration levels:_ This is one thing that is often overlooked by growers when factoring in the actual cost of a fertilizer. Take DynaGro for example; at near $50 per gallon, DynaGro doesnt appear to be one of the most economical fertilizers on the market. One thing that the bottle wont tell you is just how concentrated the nutrient solution actually is. 1ml of DynaGro's grow and bloom into a gallon of water nets a final ppm (on the 442 scale or .7 conversion) of 220. 1 ml of Connoisseur A&B into a gallon of water nets a final ppm of 140 (on the 442 scale or .7 conversion), making DynaGro 157% more concentrated than Connoisseur. In other words, 2 gallons of DynaGro would last me about seven grow cycles whereas Connoisseur A&B would last just a touch over 5 grow cycles. 

As much as Id like to report that Connoisseur is highly diluted, their concentration levels seem to be about average based on other fertilizers that I own.

_Cost:_ I dont like the fact that with Connoisseur, one needs to buy both A & B to properly flower plants. I paid $75 for these 2 liters of base nutrients but the price comparisons below will be using the 1 gallon price of $85 per bottle ($170 for the pair). While each bottle of DynaGro grow and bloom are 100% complete and are excellent stand-alone fertilizers, I do use them together all the way though flower so in essence, I use it as a two-part as well. 

Assuming I was _only_ using base nutrients for this entire grow and assuming the same feeding levels and flowering period, DynaGro would cost $14.09 for the entire flowering cycle versus Connoisseur A&B which would cost $32.17. The $18 difference per flowering period could easily be negated should Connoisseur be the superior yielding fertilizer. We shall see.


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## homebrewer (May 5, 2011)

bestbuds09 said:


> How good is sensis AK?


These AK47's are from Serious Seeds and the quality of any given strain depends on personal preference, but as a whole, I _really_ like this strain. I selected the most sativa-dominant phenotype in my pack of seeds because that's what I prefer. It yields really well, grows nice and bushy, smells great, has a flowering period just over 60 days, has a high that is more social and energetic and is fairly easy to trim, all these things make this a great strain to own. It's also very popular among my patients.


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## bestbuds09 (May 5, 2011)

I'm liking what I'm reading about sensis ak.... more than likely that's the one ill be purchasing..... thanks man..


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## maphisto (May 5, 2011)

YO!! good stuff as always h/b.


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## Encomium (May 5, 2011)

This is going to be an awesome show hb. I've already switched to DG nutes in large part due to your earlier journal. I love the simplicity and low maintenance that I've had using the DG line of nutes. The only thing I've added to the 3 main bottles is a FloraNectar from GH as I noticed that the DG line really didn't address sugar additives. At any rate, I'm along for the full ride this time


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## maphisto (May 5, 2011)

so h/b we all know d/g has a complete nutrition what about Connoisseur how much nutrition between both bottles?


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## mr.smileyface (May 5, 2011)

I would max connie out at 950. Even tho its not as concentrated, its potent.
How can you tell a differnce with seeds? Or am i wrong?
I think Part A is The same as there micro. Prettty much same thing just one cost 4 times as much. It looks the same tho. I stop using conn and just use GMB and b52 by advanced. I get the same results so why should i pay more? The GMB make my buds so sticky and smelly.
Btw connie isnt sappose to be used in early bud. Week4 is when most a+b are ran.
What do you think? Is connoisseur the same as micro? maybe more chelates? im subbed


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## Illumination (May 5, 2011)

You know I am here...lol

Namaste'


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## homebrewer (May 6, 2011)

From a nutrition perspective, I honestly dont know what AN is thinking with Connoisseur. They list seven total essential elements on the back of the bottle, 3 of which are chelated. DynaGro lists 14 with 4 being chelated. Both companies could be supplying more minerals than are listed as they may not be present in the amount that allows them to be under the Guaranteed Analysis. I know DynaGro offers sulfur and nickel which brings them up to 16 essential elements, both of which are not listed on the bottle but are on their site. According to ANs website, Connoisseur contains a total of 13 essential elements if you dig though the _derived from_ section. For $50 a gallon, DynaGro can supply essential elements in the amounts that meet the listing requirements, at $170 for the Connoisseur gallon set, I dont see why they cannot. They do claim to chelate a few additional minerals in the _derived from_ section which may be why they are present in smaller amounts and therefore not listed in the Guaranteed Analysis. From a bottling perspective, maybe those chelates present an issue as I cannot figure out why AN couldn't have condensed parts A&B. DynaGro chelates four minerals, offers more total essential elements in greater amounts and is in one bottle at a lower cost. 

In addition, Im also not crazy about the 1-1-2 NPK ratio offered by Connoisseur. Ive had the best results emulating a 1-3-2 ratio during flower but according to fat mike at AN, thats too much phosphorus (according to tissue samples). From the AN site. 



> Worse yet, almost all bloom boosters have incorrect ratios or types of phosphorus and potassium. Most bloom boosters provide double the amount of phosphorus to potassium. That's not useful. Your plants are much hungrier for potassium than for phosphorus during bloom phase.
> And when too much phosphorus is dumped into your plants, it creates a potential for phosphorus toxicity that works against flower production and overall plant health.


 So this should be interesting as I honestly dont see Connoisseur doing that well from a yield perspective given the NPK ratio. But were putting their hype and their cannabis-specific tissue samples to the test so stick around and we shall see.


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## rosecitypapa (May 6, 2011)

Hey Homebrewer,

What's the NPK of the Dyna-gro? Are you using their gro formula 7-9-5 or the bloom one? Also, have you experienced any mag def when using this formulation. I know it's a complete formulation, however my plants are showing magnesium deficiency unless I amp up the cal/mag. What's the starting TDS of your water?

The foliage pro product is hard to find at grow shops. Even though is has that ideal NPK, it's interesting in that no one carries it.


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## homebrewer (May 6, 2011)

rosecitypapa said:


> Hey Homebrewer,
> 
> What's the NPK of the Dyna-gro? Are you using their gro formula 7-9-5 or the bloom one? Also, have you experienced any mag def when using this formulation. I know it's a complete formulation, however my plants are showing magnesium deficiency unless I amp up the cal/mag. What's the starting TDS of your water?
> 
> The foliage pro product is hard to find at grow shops. Even though is has that ideal NPK, it's interesting in that no one carries it.


 I use the 7-9-5 grow along with the 3-12-6 Bloom and when mixed together, I can achieve very close to a 1-3-2 ratio. Because I use RO water, I use Magpro in hydro and have not had any issues with deficiencies at all. In dirt however, I usually feed, feed, water and on my 'water' days, I'll mix in about 3mls per gallon of calmag because RO is not ideal with my peat-based soil-less mix. DynaGro for me has been a very trouble free nutrient to use in both dirt and hydro.


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## upthearsenal (May 6, 2011)

Awesome. 

I'm thinking of using Dynagro in soil-less soon and will then be using it in ebb and flow whenever I get the system built. I'm not a fan of AN one bit yet this should still be informational.

I'm subbed, looking forward to another one of your journals.

Cheers homebrewer!


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## rosecitypapa (May 6, 2011)

When you are vegging out your plants do you use the 7-9-5 exclusively (besides the magpro)?


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## homebrewer (May 6, 2011)

rosecitypapa said:


> When you are vegging out your plants do you use the 7-9-5 exclusively (besides the magpro)?


Actually, I just use the grow and protekt in veg, that's it.


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## maphisto (May 6, 2011)

yo!! h/b, you are gonna expose a/n.but i bet there's gonna be a down fall.your probably get all this crap about "you should have used big bud, overdrive,etc" but these people who are gonna say this are gonna forget that this is a base test.hell you might even get lucky and big mike at a/n will see this thread and wanna challenge ya to a grow off.best of luck to ya.
M


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## homebrewer (May 6, 2011)

maphisto said:


> yo!! h/b, you are gonna expose a/n.but i bet there's gonna be a down fall.your probably get all this crap about "you should have used big bud, overdrive,etc" but these people who are gonna say this are gonna forget that this is a base test.hell you might even get lucky and big mike at a/n will see this thread and wanna challenge ya to a grow off.best of luck to ya.
> M


If the plants are getting what they need from the base nutrients, boosters are not needed. The goal first-and-foremost is to keep the plants healthy so the first thing I'll be looking for are deficiencies related to the use of RO water. I have magpro and calmag at my disposal should issues arise. The bigger issue IMO is their higher potassium philosophy so we'll see how that works out for them with Conni's NPK ratio.


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## mr.smileyface (May 6, 2011)

I think connoisseur is sappose to be used with the whole line up. Because powderd big bud containes sulphates as connoisseur doesnt. This is why i stick to gmb with calmag and b52.
AN does state that it should yeild more alone than any other base with additives. 
I guess we will find out.


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## homebrewer (May 6, 2011)

mr.smileyface said:


> I think connoisseur is sappose to be used with the whole line up. Because powderd big bud containes sulphates as connoisseur doesnt. This is why i stick to gmb with calmag and b52.
> AN does state that it should yeild more alone than any other base with additives.
> I guess we will find out.


I don't use NPK additives with DynaGro* so to make it fair, I wont be using them here. I do use and could use magpro as it has sulfur and magnesium as well as a booster-like NPK ratio, though fat mike doesn't agree with the higher phosphorus content of that product. So to stay true to AN's philosophy of higher potassium and not so high phosphorus, I'll probably add nothing at all as sulfates are not going to make the difference either way in this grow. As you said, AN claims that Connoisseur is the top-of-the-line nutrient on the market which was _supposedly_ put together by a team of 12 PhD's. We shall see if the performance matches the hype . 

In regards to any 3 part, DG proved itself vastly superior during the time period where I ran them side-by-side. So much so that I've got about 5 gallons of 3-part that will never be used indoors again.


*full disclosure, I am using ProTekt (0-0-3) in this grow.


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## gstringer (May 6, 2011)

Been waiting for this one. subd up


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## nuggetgrower (May 6, 2011)

gstringer said:


> Been waiting for this one. subd up


 Can't wait to watch this showdown! I run a.n. base nutes and I think a.n. sells good products, but tough on the ole' wallet.


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## maphisto (May 7, 2011)

keep it clean h/b..


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## OG18nmyBowl (May 7, 2011)

Im also using dyna Gro and was told by many growers that AN Conn was the way to go! I scribed thanks Homebrewer


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## RoloTomassi (May 8, 2011)

subscribed.


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## Merciless_One (May 9, 2011)

Awesome  along for the ride. I just started using GH ... Think i might make the switch to DG


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## Coals (May 9, 2011)

HB, SIlicone is a fairly significant additive. In the name of fairness, what about using protekt in both test groups or grabbing the AN equivalent, Rhino Skin.....or cutting it out completely?


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## Coals (May 9, 2011)

mr.smileyface said:


> I think connoisseur is sappose to be used with the whole line up. Because powderd big bud containes sulphates as connoisseur doesnt.


 
Thats excatly why I think AN is a scam. All of their line up is based around the same strategy.


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## homebrewer (May 10, 2011)

Coals said:


> HB, SIlicone is a fairly significant additive. In the name of fairness, what about using protekt in both test groups or grabbing the AN equivalent, Rhino Skin.....or cutting it out completely?


 I use protekt regardless of what base I'm using. I used it when I was running GH and DG side-by-side and I'm using it with Connoisseur as well.


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## Coals (May 10, 2011)

sounds good


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## hogs (May 11, 2011)

Hey HB,
I`m here all eyes..Just started using Dyna and have been using all the BS AN top of line gear with all the add ons and then some....

Just stated in Coco 30 mls of Dyna with 20 Liters of water..Hope thats right?

Also use the Pro-Tekt 15 mls per 20 liters of water..Not sure if I shouldn`t use More of this like 30 mils as well to 20 liters of water??

Hope these are about right ratios?

In totes with 60 percent cana coco and 40 percent Perlite. Should one also feed with each water? 
Hope this is ok with ya HB to ask here or should I pm ya?
BTw my ppms with Dyna in this ratio with other additives = total 910 ?
AN would be like 1400 with their base nutes and Same additives??


Thanks


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## homebrewer (May 12, 2011)

hogs said:


> Hey HB,
> I`m here all eyes..Just started using Dyna and have been using all the BS AN top of line gear with all the add ons and then some....
> 
> Just stated in Coco 30 mls of Dyna with 20 Liters of water..Hope thats right?
> ...


 I don't have any experience with coco as I believe that is 'drain to waste' growing. Personally I'd feed like I feed my dirt plants so for you, that would be like 15mls of base and 23mls of protekt per 5 gallons. I'd experiment with feed, feed, water as I don't think you'll need to feed every time. Again, these are just guesses based on what I do in sunshine mix.


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## homebrewer (May 12, 2011)

Day 8 today and there isnt really much to report. Ive been keeping a daily log of the pH stability and will post those numbers in a week or two. I want to get one more week in using my usual RO water, then try tap water for a week. Regardless of the water source, DynaGros pH stability has been rock solid for me. I just need a little more time before I can comment on the pH tendencies of Connoisseur.


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## nothingtodeclare (May 12, 2011)

subbed i use AN but been hearing good things about this dyna-gro but not sure if its in uk alot of hydro shops an a couple of people i know have been using dutch pro




an there saying that there having great results with it,my local hydro has remoed nearly all of AN products because of the customers raving at this product,still cannot wait to see your results


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## hogs (May 12, 2011)

Thanks HB,
*BTw my ppms with Dyna in this ratio with other additives = total 910 ?,
If I go lower like you mention wdn`t my ppms only be like 500 or so?

What should I try to keep the ppms in VEg and flower?

btw I dont really feed to waste just feed when the totes are light and get them heavy again usually its like 10 lites each per 18 gal. tote. lots of mix...

Also when you say you use **floralicious plus I was at a shop today and its just 2 N. so is it to give more N. I had thought it was for flowering or something??
*


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## homebrewer (May 12, 2011)

hogs said:


> Thanks HB,
> *BTw my ppms with Dyna in this ratio with other additives = total 910 ?,
> If I go lower like you mention wdn`t my ppms only be like 500 or so?
> 
> What should I try to keep the ppms in VEg and flower?*


500ppm on the .7 conversion or 442 scale is as high as I go in flower in dirt pots. I'm at about 200ppm in veg.


> btw I dont really feed to waste just feed when the totes are light and get them heavy again usually its like 10 lites each per 18 gal. tote. lots of mix...


In that case, I'd go with the numbers i stated above. It's said a lot but _less is more_ when it comes to feeding. There is just no need to jam nutes down your plants' throats as they only require a certain level given their size and environment.


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## hogs (May 12, 2011)

HB, Thanks for the reply...When you say you use *Also when you say you use floralicious plus I was at a shop today and its just 2 N. so is it to give more N. I had thought it was for flowering or something??*


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## homebrewer (May 12, 2011)

hogs said:


> HB, Thanks for the reply...When you say you use *Also when you say you use floralicious plus I was at a shop today and its just 2 N. so is it to give more N. I had thought it was for flowering or something??*


 I've found that it aids in resin production (not potency) and increases aroma. It's an aesthetic thing. I have it but don't always remember to use it.


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## medicine21 (May 13, 2011)

Cool, this will be interesting! Do you have two of the same flood trays with 6 plants each, one running AN and the other DG?


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## homebrewer (May 13, 2011)

medicine21 said:


> Cool, this will be interesting! Do you have two of the same flood trays with 6 plants each, one running AN and the other DG?


 Actually I do, but the other tray has a mix of my purple strain and kali mist. To keep things as identical as possible, I always conduct my journals in this set up in the corner. Lighting is obviously very important and this corner of the room has 2 walls with mylar vs the tray next to it which only has one. Plus, the tray next to it utilizes a different reflector hood.


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## medicine21 (May 13, 2011)

I'm a bit confused then. You are running the test for 2 different nute brands on a single flood table? How are you doing that?


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## homebrewer (May 13, 2011)

medicine21 said:


> I'm a bit confused then. You are running the test for 2 different nute brands on a single flood table? How are you doing that?


 Unless I specify otherwise, the only flood table you'll see in this journal is the one where I'm growing AK47 with AN's Connoisseur.


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## nothingtodeclare (May 14, 2011)

hb do you not use overdrive i find this frosts my ladies up real nice


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## homebrewer (May 14, 2011)

nothingtodeclare said:


> hb do you not use overdrive i find this frosts my ladies up real nice


 I'm not going to use the product 'overdrive' but may throw in something like a koolbloom or florabloom which is the same type of product. Maybe one of those would account for 10% of my total ppms, though I'm not sure that it would make much of a difference. As a general rule of mine, I like to fill up most of my ppms with mineral-packed products like high quality base nutes with desirable NPK ratios and not dilute that with incomplete boosters.


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## nothingtodeclare (May 15, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I'm not going to use the product 'overdrive' but may throw in something like a koolbloom or florabloom which is the same type of product. Maybe one of those would account for 10% of my total ppms, though I'm not sure that it would make much of a difference. As a general rule of mine, I like to fill up most of my ppms with mineral-packed products like high quality base nutes with desirable NPK ratios and not dilute that with incomplete boosters.


i have never tried koolbloom or florabloom so would like to see your final results,as you can see i am not an expert an learn from threads like this off you guys thanks for the input


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## homebrewer (May 15, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> The strain well be working with is Serious Seeds AK47, a strain Ive grown many times before and am very familiar with. Using DynaGro, my yields for the past four grows have all been between 20 and 21.3 ounces (_most recent harvest numbers are not in yet_) so this shall be the benchmark for ANs Connoisseur.


My most recent numbers are in from the previous AK47 grow in the exact position where I'm conducting this comparison. The yield was 560 grams on the dot (20 ounces) which makes this the fifth consecutive grow where I've achieved a minimum of 20 ounces from this AK47 strain using DynaGro. This is a pretty well established benchmark now so we'll see soon enough if Connoisseur has what it takes to surpass my favorite fertilizer.


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## rosecitypapa (May 15, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> My most recent numbers are in from the previous AK47 grow in the exact position where I'm conducting this comparison. The yield was 560 grams on the dot (20 ounces) which makes this the fifth consecutive grow where I've achieved a minimum of 20 ounces from this AK47 strain using DynaGro. This is a pretty well established benchmark now so we'll see soon enough if Connoisseur has what it takes to surpass my favorite fertilizer.


How long are you vegging/how tall are your plants when you flip?


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## homebrewer (May 15, 2011)

rosecitypapa said:


> How long are you vegging/how tall are your plants when you flip?


 I don't like them to be any taller than about 15 inches but it has more to do with their structure as to when I'll switch them into 12/12.


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## poindexterous (May 15, 2011)

Hey HB, I'm planning to do a 6" rockwool cube ebb&flow grow myself, and since you've had lots of success with this method I want to ask you about flood depth, or how far up the rockwool cube you fill the tray? I have little experience with rockwool and don't know what the wisdom is on this? Thanks!


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## rosecitypapa (May 15, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I don't like them to be any taller than about 15 inches but it has more to do with their structure as to when I'll switch them into 12/12.


What structure are you looking for?


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## homebrewer (May 15, 2011)

poindexterous said:


> Hey HB, I'm planning to do a 6" rockwool cube ebb&flow grow myself, and since you've had lots of success with this method I want to ask you about flood depth, or how far up the rockwool cube you fill the tray? I have little experience with rockwool and don't know what the wisdom is on this? Thanks!


 My flood and drain system probably only floods the bottom 2 inches of the rockwool cubes. The cubes to a good job of wicking up the water and the roots don't seem to have an issue pulling up food. 



> *What structure are you looking for? *


Bushy, lots of branching. It depends on the strain but I like as many strong growth shoots as I can get.


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## rosecitypapa (May 16, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Bushy, lots of branching. It depends on the strain but I like as many strong growth shoots as I can get.


Are you training the plants at all, topping, fim, lst, etc?


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## homebrewer (May 16, 2011)

rosecitypapa said:


> Are you training the plants at all, topping, fim, lst, etc?


 I always top them in veg and always supercrop in flower. Depending on how fast they grow, sometimes I'll top _and_ supercrop in veg. The ultimate goal is to have a nice bushy canopy which will turn into a plethora of colas at harvest.


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## brianbertz (May 16, 2011)

nice thread. excited for this test. i use sensi bloom 2 part right now and i might or might not get the conni line depending on how ur girls turn out. sensi is working fine enough for me and its only 27 for 1 liter of each compared to what like 75 bucks or so for the 1 liter a and b? hopefully it produces crazy yields. im subbed.


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## J2M3S (May 16, 2011)

Subscribed homebrewer! Longtime Dyna-Gro user, thanks to your advice some time ago.


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## homebrewer (May 18, 2011)

Day 14 today and I'm updating a day early because work has called me out of town for a week. The next update should be on the 27th. 

The ladies look good and by all accounts, things look how they should. The plants are branching and bushing-out as expected and I've installed some trellis netting to support the yields that I've come to expect from this strain (hopefully it's needed). Over the past 2 weeks, I've been taking some notes about Connoisseur's pH stability. For you non-hydro guys out there, the pH is something that can get out of control in hydro if not monitored daily. Write up below:


pH stability:  Connoisseurs pH stability is similar to that of General Hydroponics when used with RO water. Typically, Ive needed to pH the water 3 times per week with Connoisseur and I think one of the reasons for this is the lack of buffers in this fertilizer. I say that because one thing that I noticed right away was that it didnt take much pH up or pH down to move Connoisseurs pH. So when topping off my res with RO water that has a pH of 6.0, that seems to cause the pH of the Connoisseur res to move closer to 6. I run DynaGro at 5.7-5.9 and to make this test as identical as possible, Im running connoisseur in the same pH range. So while Connoisseur wants to drift closer to a pH of 6.0 when topping off with RO water, this isnt out of the range for nutrient availability and probably wouldnt cause any issues for lazy growers. Though I do not know where the pH would go should the res go unmonitored for a week. For more attentive growers however, it does mean that during the first few days after a res change, one needs to make sure theyre monitoring their reservoirs for the best results. 

DynaGros pH on the other hand is rock solid. The only time I ever pH the solution is after Ive changed the res and even then, it falls into the 5.6-5.7 range. I do a quick adjustment to high 5s and it always seems to stay put. Even when topping off with poor tap water with a pH of mid 7s, DynaGros pH just doesnt want to move.

Overall, the pH performance of Connoisseur isnt bad but its not nearly as hands-off as DynaGro. Im out of town this coming week but when I return, Ill be running Connoisseur with tap water for a week to see how it does. 


Connoisseurs pH log w/ RO water:

Thursday 6.7 (Fresh res, adjusted to 5.8 )
Friday 6.1 (adjusted to 5.8 )
Saturday 6.0 (left alone, wanted to see where the pH goes)
Sunday 6.0 (Adjusted to 5.8 )
Monday 5.8
Tuesday 5.9
Wednesday 5.9

Week 2 w/ RO water:

Thursday 6.8 (Fresh res, adjusted to 5.8 ) 
Friday 6.0 (adjusted to 5.8 )
Saturday 5.9
Sunday 6.0
Monday 6.0 (adjusted to 5.8 )
Tuesday 5.8
Wednesday 5.8


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## homebrewer (May 18, 2011)

One thing I want to point out is the difference between DynaGro and Connoisseur even at 2 weeks into flower. The first picture is DynaGro at day 15, the second is Connoisseur at day 14 (same picture as above). I'll let you decide who has the advantage. 


*DynaGro day 15....*



*Connoisseur day 14...*


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## hogs (May 18, 2011)

Right on HB all looks good Yeah Dyna is pulling out front for sure...I`m on the 2nd week now Dyna up against Connoisseur as well....Feeding all the same additives just the base are different..SO far looks like my Dyna is getting alot more bush than the AN....Looking good....


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## jamesking (May 19, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> One thing I want to point out is the difference between DynaGro and Connoisseur even at 2 weeks into flower. The first picture is DynaGro at day 15, the second is Connoisseur at day 14 (same picture as above). I'll let you decide who has the advantage.


Great experiment. I have been wondering about this for some time now. I'm assuming you're using dyna-gro bloom formula, right?


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## Coals (May 20, 2011)

Wow, that is shocking. I have never seen a comparison grow with that kind of dramatic difference.


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## mr.smileyface (May 20, 2011)

Hard to say cause you have dynagrow dialed in. Conniosseur is sappose to keep them in peak bloom longer..
what are your ppms looking like?


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## Alex Kelly (May 20, 2011)

I don't think conn is supposed to keep them in "peak bloom" longer. You have never seen an oversaturation of P with Dyna-grow? Not disagreeing I've never used a flower base with P=12 jw. All for Dyna-grow though heard nothing butr great things.


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## mr.smileyface (May 21, 2011)

Alex Kelly said:


> I don't think conn is supposed to keep them in "peak bloom" longer. You have never seen an oversaturation of P with Dyna-grow? Not disagreeing I've never used a flower base with P=12 jw. All for Dyna-grow though heard nothing butr great things.


 Never used dyna grow. But i might after this side by side. I asked my store and they didnt know. I would have to look around. 
I use conni, but not untill week 4 and not every grow. I use gmb by advanced with b52 and it works killer. Im thinking dyna grow with b52 would be good. The first two weeks im always feeding veg nutes 1-1-1 plus some to get 700-800ppm. Im growing in sunshine mix tho. But when i did use conni, i got my highest yeilds. 
I dont think juice really matters that much. Its basicly medicine. As long as your plants are healthy. Thats why dyna grow is good because it contains all the medicine needed to maintain a healthy plant. B52 is basicly a multi vitamin to go with your base which is food.


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## Alex Kelly (May 21, 2011)

Ya it has the correct amounts of all of the essential elements no added bs. Ive been researching these nutes and every time i see them they really just keep the plants very healthy and green. I will definately be using these on a crop from seed I have coming up. Looking for a good mother and these nutes should keep all of the different phenotypes nice and healthy. Can't wait to see more.


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## mell420 (May 23, 2011)

I've used Dyna-Gro from veg to flower! Absolutely great product. I never even thought of comparing DG to AN. Great job! Like I've been telling friends all along, It's a good and stable product!

The KLN Product has to be the best and least expensive cloning/rooting agent Ive ever used! No more cloning gels/powders.


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## jamesking (May 23, 2011)

Is this done with rockwool cubes? I'm asking because I have heard multiple times that Dyna-gro is "hard-core" and "causes a lot of problems." Why would they say that?


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## rosecitypapa (May 23, 2011)

jamesking said:


> Is this done with rockwool cubes? I'm asking because I have heard multiple times that Dyna-gro is "hard-core" and "causes a lot of problems." Why would they say that?


Scapegoating probably, grower inexperience most likely. It is one of the cheapest, easiest and most reliable products out there - SOLID. The paradox is that they don't keep the Foliage Pro product in any of the hydroshops around here. I'm speculating due to the fact that the major distributors don't carry it, ordering direct isn't something that helps their margin, and it would reduce sales of other higher priced and somewhat confusing nutrient & additive marketplace.


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## maphisto (May 23, 2011)

dyna gro specialize's in hydro thats where there roots are. check their website.big mike from a/n is gonna be pissed cause a/n has been exposed!! GREAT work h/b


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## burrr (May 23, 2011)

I bet that HB ends up with a pound of fine bud using the Advanced Nutes, results that most growers would consider stellar. Just not quite up the performance level of the dynagrow.


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## hogs (May 24, 2011)

Dyna IS still in the lead for me... I just hope when I switch to Flower they will hold their own...Not exactly sure how to use it in Flower though..little bit of Grow with the bloom perhaps 1 to 4 ratio ???


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## J2M3S (May 24, 2011)

hogs said:


> Dyna IS still in the lead for me... I just hope when I switch to Flower they will hold their own...Not exactly sure how to use it in Flower though..little bit of Grow with the bloom perhaps 1 to 4 ratio ???


Sounds about correct. I also use Dyna-Gro Grow through both the grow and veg stage, keeping the ladies green til the very end.


Good luck!


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## Coals (May 24, 2011)

hogs said:


> Dyna IS still in the lead for me... I just hope when I switch to Flower they will hold their own...Not exactly sure how to use it in Flower though..little bit of Grow with the bloom perhaps 1 to 4 ratio ???


I have had great results using Foilage Pro for veg and then just switching to their Grow formula for flower. You can mix and match ratios like HB does but I have had great results just switching to the Grow for flower. MJ is a foliage based plant that loves nitrogen. Foliage pro is huge on nitrogen for veg and then Grow is slightly less ofcourse. It seems to help keep them green and vigorous all through flower.


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## SpaceFace (May 24, 2011)

I'm loving this, I'm going to be switching to hydro and was trying to decide between AN from there hype and Dyna from word of mouth and from HB's GH Dyna grow from before. The Dyna seems so much more easy and cheaper that I'm going to have to try them first and maybe do a comparison like this once i get a second system going. Keep up the great work HB.


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## MasterS (May 24, 2011)

I can't find DynaGro in Phoenix cheaper than I get Dutch Master Gold A+B Flower


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## SpaceFace (May 24, 2011)

Not sure how much you get Dutch Master Gold for but can get the Dyna-gro Grow and Bloom 1 gallon on Ebay for $47.88 each including s/h and BGHydro.com for $39.95 for each plus s/h which for both is around $16


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## sailorways (May 25, 2011)

You guys know how long Dynagrow and bloom have been out? I first saw it almost thirty years ago. We imported some to OZ. Had it analysed and made our own. Thats back when you could buy ferts without them thinking you wanna blow something up. Worked a treat. I still have the recipes around somewhere.


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## rosecitypapa (May 25, 2011)

sailorways said:


> You guys know how long Dynagrow and bloom have been out? I first saw it almost thirty years ago. We imported some to OZ. Had it analysed and made our own. Thats back when you could buy ferts without them thinking you wanna blow something up. Worked a treat. I still have the recipes around somewhere.


Post recipes!


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## fallinprince (May 26, 2011)

1post and you saw this 30 years ago and have the recipe.proof or gtfo. Somehow i think the company would have evolved there product at least by small amounts over 30 years. BESIDES would you like to tell me how you go about obtaining raw materials even in "concentrate" form the amounts are small unless your making huge vats


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## homebrewer (May 27, 2011)

mr.smileyface said:


> Hard to say cause you have dynagrow dialed in. Conniosseur is sappose to keep them in peak bloom longer..
> what are your ppms looking like?


I run my AK47 at 800-850 ppm or about 1.2 EC. Thats what they liked with DynaGro so thats how much Connoisseur theyre getting.

In regards to keeping them in peak bloom longer, I dont ever see peak bloom myself. Its a slow and gradual process for me but maybe youll see something in the pictures to come that confirms what youve heard. 



jamesking said:


> Is this done with rockwool cubes? I'm asking because I have heard multiple times that Dyna-gro is "hard-core" and "causes a lot of problems." Why would they say that?


Yes this is rockwool and Id also describe DynaGro as hardcore as well, but in a good way. I simply dont have any issues to deal with. Low salt build-up, steady pH, and easy to use.



burrr said:


> I bet that HB ends up with a pound of fine bud using the Advanced Nutes, results that most growers would consider stellar. Just not quite up the performance level of the dynagrow.


Dont get me wrong, Im happy with a pound, thats just lower than what I normally yield out of the strains I grow in these tables. If connoisseur produces a pound, that would be a failure in this comparison. 



hogs said:


> Dyna IS still in the lead for me... I just hope when I switch to Flower they will hold their own...Not exactly sure how to use it in Flower though..little bit of Grow with the bloom perhaps 1 to 4 ratio ???


I use a minimum of 1ml/gallon of grow all through the bloom phase, expect maybe the last week. Make up the rest of your EC with bloom and protekt.


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## Encomium (May 27, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> *Yes this is rockwool and I&#8217;d also describe DynaGro as &#8216;hardcore&#8217; as well, but in a good way. I simply don&#8217;t have any issues to deal with. Low salt build-up, steady pH, and easy to use.*


Just out of curiosity do you leach your rockwool periodically? I was leaching with an extremely mild nutrient solution weekly (during rez change) to leach away excess salts in my rockwool. Honestly I'm not even sure I needed to do this but was doing so as a preventative measure more than anything else. If you do leach, do you use products to do so? In Cervantes' bible he says that a very weak nutrient solution (say 2-3 mil/gal of dyna grow) would get rid of more salts than just water but I am now wondering if I should spring for a product like Clearex to leach my RW. 

Cheers!


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## homebrewer (May 27, 2011)

Day 23 today and I just returned from my work trip. The plants look nice and healthy and my out-of-town assistant did an excellent job. Since I wasnt here, there isnt much to report other than the comparison photos below. Cheers!

Oh, my out-of-town assistant was instructed to not touch the pH for a few days to see where it went. Four or five days into the week, I guess the pH was low (5.1-5.2) and needed adjusted once back into the normal range. Not quite as bad as GH's pH stability but not nearly as hands-off as DynaGro. 



Connoisseur day 23.




DynaGro day 22.


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## homebrewer (May 27, 2011)

Encomium said:


> Just out of curiosity do you leach your rockwool periodically? I was leaching with an extremely mild nutrient solution weekly (during rez change) to leach away excess salts in my rockwool. Honestly I'm not even sure I needed to do this but was doing so as a preventative measure more than anything else. If you do leach, do you use products to do so? In Cervantes' bible he says that a very weak nutrient solution (say 2-3 mil/gal of dyna grow) would get rid of more salts than just water but I am now wondering if I should spring for a product like Clearex to leach my RW.
> 
> Cheers!


 I do leach salts every 3 weeks but use plain tap water as mine is 250+ ppm. I feel that this is a very important step as rock will clog up with salts if the medium isn't properly taken care of.


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## newworldicon (May 27, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> This showdown is going to be in the same manner as my https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/358562-dyna-gro-vs-general-hydroponics.html journal in that it wont be a simultaneous grow-off, but rather a direct comparison of the base nutrient lines offered by DynaGro and Advanced Nutrients. Ill be comparing things like pH stability, salt build up, plant performance, plant health, nutrient concentration levels, and of course final yield.
> 
> I chose Connoisseur because its probably the most expensive, over-hyped base nutrient on the market and as a veteran grower, Im in a much better position to put out the truth about the actual performance of this product than some beginner who just doesnt know any better. After 11 years in this hobby, Ive settled into the no-frills DynaGro brand which offers total and complete plant nutrition and isnt purposely split up into multiple products. Im not starting this journal because Im unhappy with my current nutrient brand, I just want to post some honest and bullshiz free info about ANs most prestigious base nutrient. Welcome to the no-hype zone .
> 
> ...


Thank you for doing the comparison, having used AN connoiseur for 3 grows and then 1 grow with ionic afterwards I saw the same results as AN at 3 times the price. I will be very keen to see what dyna grow can do and have finally found a local supplier for it.


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## Encomium (May 27, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I do leach salts every 3 weeks but use plain tap water as mine is 250+ ppm. I feel that this is a very important step as rock will clog up with salts if the medium isn't properly taken care of.


Thank you! My tapwater is at @ 100 ppms so for my next grow I won't have to leach on every rez change and won't have to buy a needless product if tapwater will do it sufficiently.


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## homebrewer (May 27, 2011)

Encomium said:


> Thank you! My tapwater is at @ 100 ppms so for my next grow I won't have to leach on every rez change and won't have to buy a needless product if tapwater will do it sufficiently.


 I ran a comparison of clearex vs my tap water and clearex only marginally out performed tap water, to the point where I wont buy 'flushing agents' anymore. The comparison is in my _Great White_ journal somewhere.


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## insomnia47 (May 27, 2011)

subbed for the ride, i think the differences are pretty obvious already, anyone taking bets on the final weight? 18.5 o's with AN is my bet


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## MasterS (May 27, 2011)

Whoo, we gots a pool going on. 23oz for Dyno and 17.5 for AN


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## newworldicon (May 27, 2011)

I say AN= 19.5oz and DG=21oz.


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## brianbertz (May 27, 2011)

im thinking if thats what conni is doing at 23 days just use sensi grow and sensi bloom 2 part or even micro grow bloom. i use the 2 part with big bud, bud candy, b52, carbo load and overdrive. kind of alot of additives but i see awesome results and its all the cheapest additives. those are worth the money i think


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## MasterS (May 27, 2011)

Doesn't that defeat the purpose of this comparison? I thought the biggest problem between them is that AN lacks what the additives have to require that you buy them. DynaGro isn't that greedy nor are advertising that type of audience. If DynaGro can put a more complete set of nutrients in their non-separated nutrient line up, why can't AN?

Now as a different growth comparison, I'd love to see AN full line compared to the normal line and output differences. If the amounts are great enough to justify messing around with a dozen additives. I guess some people can deal with them, not to mention if the additives help with the pH as well since DynaGro is winning for that as well.


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## homebrewer (May 27, 2011)

brianbertz said:


> im thinking if thats what conni is doing at 23 days just use sensi grow and sensi bloom 2 part or even micro grow bloom. i use the 2 part with big bud, bud candy, b52, carbo load and overdrive. kind of alot of additives but i see awesome results and its all the cheapest additives. those are worth the money i think


 I think the bigger picture is not the brands here but the NPK ratios and minerals contained in the bottles. Sensi has the same NPK ratio as Connoisseur so I would assume similar results between the two, though I don't know how concentrated sensi is nor do I know the pH tendencies. I believe Connoisseur is more complete than sensi and it's also their 'top of the line' nutrient so I'd like to think the extra money is paying for something with Connoisseur.

In regards to comparing entire lines of nutrients, I hope the takeaway at the end of this comparison is that it doesn't matter how many bottles you use, the 1-3-2 NPK ratio with complete micro nutrient content is simply hard to beat. From a performance perspective, I'm not much of a believer in rooting, carb, amino, or fulvic acids type additives and have found that they really do not justify their price. I sometimes use Floralicious plus and florablend from GH but also openly admit that their use is not a night and day difference. As far as yields go, I don't think either of them help at all and the same would be true with similar products offered by any other fertilizer company.


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## homebrewer (May 28, 2011)

I leached salts from the rockwool this evening for 2 hours and changed out the res to some fresh water and nutrients. As I was looking at the comparison pictures that I posted earlier, I realized that things are not going to get any better for connoisseur from a performance perspective as I think DG is clearly ahead. I, on the other hand, have a vested interest in yielding as well as I can for my patients and cannot afford to sacrifice a few ounces at the end of this grow just to solidify what is obviously already happening. So at the res change tonight, I subbed in 200ppms of Liquid KoolBloom (0-10-10) as I think Connoisseur needs the help. This is a simple PK booster like an Overdrive or what-have-you which nets something like a 1-1.5-2.5 final NPK ratio. This is still in line with Fat Mike's theory that cannabis needs a lot more potassium than phosphorus so hopefully the use of KoolBloom will keep things closer and maybe more accurately demonstrate the yields that could be expected when using a common combination of AN products.

So as it stands now, the mixture in my res is 4 mls of each A&B, 5mls of protekt, and 6 mls of koolbloom per gallon. This nets about a 1.2 EC where Connoisseur makes up about 75% of the nutrient mixture. Next update hopefully on Thursday.


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## fallinprince (May 28, 2011)

Besides your comparing a company who advertises being THE BEST if you buy the 7-8 bottles priced at 50$ a piece VS. buying 4 bottles and having Dyna-gro's whole line in 70$.(buying quarts)

subbed P.S check my grow


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## homebrewer (May 28, 2011)

fallinprince said:


> Besides your comparing a company who advertises being THE BEST if you buy the 7-8 bottles priced at 50$ a piece VS. buying 4 bottles and having Dyna-gro's whole line in 70$.(buying quarts)
> 
> subbed P.S check my grow


 There is no question that Advanced Nutrients claims Connoisseur is the best stand alone base nutrient on the market and in their description of the product's performance, they make no mention of the need for additives to achieve their claims below. The following is from AN's site:



> We all want our plants to get into peak bloom phase faster and to yield a bigger harvest. Now, a team of one dozen plant PhD's and their research assistants believe they have found the answer...
> 
> So, when it comes to a premium bloom base fertilizer - a team of 12 PhD's working for Advanced Nutrients in a leading Bulgarian research lab simply found multiple ways to improve upon each stage of the two-part process of growing plants.
> 
> ...


DynaGro's 'nutrient line' is comprised of two stand alone base nutes; one for veg and the other for flower. They offer an RO water add-back product called magpro (calmag would work fine too) and a silica product that I'm using in this current comparison. In my eyes, additives are products that are not needed and the only one that's not 'needed' in this grow is protekt. But that product offers resistance to pests and I also need the added strength in the stems to hold up the weight that I normally get out of my flowers. 

I hope if nothing else, fertilizer users in general will realize it's all about the mineral content and the ratios and that it's really hard to correct a less-than-optimal base nutrient NPK ratio with boosters and supplements.


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## bunz420 (May 28, 2011)

Great job on the dyna-gro hb, it's gonna be interesting seeing final weights seeing as how you're adding a pk booster to AN, I bet dyna-gro still out yields AN and all their hype. What are your thoughts on humboldt nutes?? I run humboldt in dirt bout ima bout make the switch to ebb & flow, would you recommend dyna-gro for beginners with hydro??


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## fallinprince (May 28, 2011)

bunz420 said:


> Great job on the dyna-gro hb, it's gonna be interesting seeing final weights seeing as how you're adding a pk booster to AN, I bet dyna-gro still out yields AN and all their hype. What are your thoughts on humboldt nutes?? I run humboldt in dirt bout ima bout make the switch to ebb & flow, would you recommend dyna-gro for beginners with hydro??


Actually at the moment. he would probably recommend dyna-gro for everyone. But check my grow its my first hydro (i had a previously failed soil grow). i give out as much information as i can think of.

Im really excited to see the yield comparison. after reading that big long description i call shenanigans on Advanced Nutrients. Except yes they might use materials other companies might think is wasteful due to the high cost


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## topshelf_sac (May 28, 2011)

Hey Homebrewer!
I have been following your journal with great interest. I have been experimenting with Osmocote Plus which is a 15-9-12 controlled release fertilizer for the past six months. Before that I was using the lucas formula. I can tell you that the higher nitrogen formula ending up tasting much better and had better resin development than the higher P formula. The higher P formula did produce denser buds which did taste great, just not as good as the Osmocote. This next grow is going to be my last before moving into a bigger room and I am going to attempt using Dyna Gro in a soilless mix of orchid bark, peat moss and perlite (found it as Als 5:1:1 mix from gardenweb). I have run my veg plants in this mix and they really love it. 
You have convinced me to switch to Dyna Gro this next run. I bought foliage pro, bloom and protekt. I will use protekt the whole time. I will fertilize everytime with 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of fertilizer mix and 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of protekt. During veg and the first week of 12/12 will use foliage pro (9-3-6), week 2 with half and half bloom/foliage pro (6-7.5-6) and then the rest of the run with 1/2 tsp foliage pro and two tsp bloom (4-10.5-6). I have RO water, but quit using it because my plants did better with tap water. My tap runs at 180 on my ppm meter and online water quality report puts TA at 60. This puts my total ppm to just unnder 500 ppm when I was testing it out. 
I want to thank you for posting your work as I find it to be a great source of information to make an informed decision. Keep up the great work!​


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## MasterS (May 28, 2011)

Homebrewer, as a fun grow comparison that would benefit you more than the community as a whole. Have you thought of doing a comparison with your 1-3-2 ratio to a slightly varied one to hone in on a strains preference or do you grow too many to care about that and use 1-3-2 because it is the best overall?


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## homebrewer (May 29, 2011)

bunz420 said:


> What are your thoughts on humboldt nutes?? I run humboldt in dirt bout ima bout make the switch to ebb & flow, would you recommend dyna-gro for beginners with hydro??


I dont like them for the simple fact that when I called them to ask a specific question about one of their products, they literally told me to google it. Ive called GH, Botanicare and DynaGro many, many times with questions and have found their reps to _at least_ be very well informed about their own products. 

Another issue that I have with Humboldt is that their fertilizer lines are just ripoffs of products already being offered by other companies. Their 3part is a GH ripoff, their Master A&B has the same NPK ratio as Sensi, Connoisser and several others Im sure. Their boosters are nothing new and just another attempt to slice into the Liquid Karma, Calmag, rootzyme, and carb additive market. Cool labels but thats about it.

Id highly recommend DynaGro for beginners. Just make sure you have a pH pen and a TDS meter then hit me up for a suggested feeding schedule for dirt or hydro. DGs nutes will fry plants at normal doses because their highly concentrated so thats the only thing Id tell growers to watch out for. 



cornchi said:


> I will use protekt the whole time. I will fertilize everytime with 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of fertilizer mix and 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of protekt. During veg and the first week of 12/12 will use foliage pro (9-3-6), week 2 with half and half bloom/foliage pro (6-7.5-6) and then the rest of the run with 1/2 tsp foliage pro and two tsp bloom (4-10.5-6). I have RO water, but quit using it because my plants did better with tap water. My tap runs at 180 on my ppm meter and online water quality report puts TA at 60. This puts my total ppm to just unnder 500 ppm when I was testing it out.
> I want to thank you for posting your work as I find it to be a great source of information to make an informed decision. Keep up the great work! [/INDENT]


In regards to your feeding rates, don't use more than a tsp per gallon of DG's base nutes. I'd feed at half that with 1 tsp of protekt to balance the pH per gallon.






MasterS said:


> Homebrewer, as a fun grow comparison that would benefit you more than the community as a whole. Have you thought of doing a comparison with your 1-3-2 ratio to a slightly varied one to hone in on a strains preference or do you grow too many to care about that and use 1-3-2 because it is the best overall?


Ive used other ratios throughout the years because thats what the brands gave me that I used to use. Ive seen the best yields across all strains from DynaGros roughly 1-3-2 ratio (which is what results when I mix grow and bloom). It just seems to be a nice balance that offers enough N to keep them green while not overloading the plants with too much P and K. Feed at modest levels and youll be putting your plants in a position to pull up what they want, when they need it. It works for me and Id recommend it for others, but Im not saying use this ratio or GTFO. 

In regards to the different nutritional needs of the different strains, I really don't think it varies that much. I've found that training, pruning and shaping to be much more strain dependent than even feeding levels.


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## newworldicon (May 29, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I don&#8217;t like them for the simple fact that when I called them to ask a specific question about one of their products, they literally told me to &#8216;google it&#8217;. I&#8217;ve called GH, Botanicare and DynaGro many, many times with questions and have found their reps to _at least_ be very well informed about their own products.
> 
> Another issue that I have with Humboldt is that their fertilizer lines are just ripoffs of products already being offered by other companies. Their 3part is a GH ripoff, their Master A&B has the same NPK ratio as Sensi, Connoisser and several others I&#8217;m sure. Their boosters are nothing new and just another attempt to slice into the Liquid Karma, Calmag, rootzyme, and carb additive market. Cool labels but that&#8217;s about it.
> 
> ...


So having used the dyna gro in hydro for a while now what sort of EC values over a 8 week period do you recommend? Bare in mind I start rooted clones at around 6-8 inches and flower in aeroponics.

After seeing where the DG is compared to conni I can see which is better already.

Thanks


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## homebrewer (May 29, 2011)

newworldicon said:


> So having used the dyna gro in hydro for a while now what sort of EC values over a 8 week period do you recommend? Bare in mind I start rooted clones at around 6-8 inches and flower in aeroponics.
> 
> After seeing where the DG is compared to conni I can see which is better already.
> 
> Thanks


 1.2 EC is very safe though I'm not that familiar with aeroponic growing. Just monitor the EC of your res and possibly add back some nutrients halfway though the week if you find they're consuming a lot. I know aero performs very well with rapid growth but I don't know exactly how much the plants will feed in that environment.


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## newworldicon (May 29, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> 1.2 EC is very safe though I'm not that familiar with aeroponic growing. Just monitor the EC of your res and possibly add back some nutrients halfway though the week if you find they're consuming a lot. I know aero performs very well with rapid growth but I don't know exactly how much the plants will feed in that environment.


So you are saying to keep a constant 1.2EC right the way through flowering from week 1-8? or start at 1.2 and increase by 0.10 per week till week 7? This is what I do with canna right now, start at 1.1EC then 1.2 @week 2 and so forth....

Will an EC of 1.2 suffice right up to week 7 do you think?


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## shnkrmn (May 29, 2011)

subscribed.


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## homebrewer (May 29, 2011)

newworldicon said:


> So you are saying to keep a constant 1.2EC right the way through flowering from week 1-8? or start at 1.2 and increase by 0.10 per week till week 7? This is what I do with canna right now, start at 1.1EC then 1.2 @week 2 and so forth....
> 
> Will an EC of 1.2 suffice right up to week 7 do you think?


 I max out at 1.2 and maintain that from roughly weeks 3-7. Weeks 8 and 9 I go a little lower just because that's what the plants usually tell me to do. 1.2 EC is safe and shouldn't burn any strains, but some heavier feeding strains may need a mid week addition of nutes before the week is over (really not necessary unless you're working with a smaller res).


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## newworldicon (May 29, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I max out at 1.2 and maintain that from roughly weeks 3-7. Weeks 8 and 9 I go a little lower just because that's what the plants usually tell me to do. 1.2 EC is safe and shouldn't burn any strains, but some heavier feeding strains may need a mid week addition of nutes before the week is over (really not necessary unless you're working with a smaller res).


Thanks i'll give DG a bash next week.

EDIT: Just bought the bloom, veg and protekt...I don't think I will need the magpro just yet as I don't use RO water.

Again thanks for the experiment, you have converted me and I'll be looking forward to growing with DG.


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## tony1960 (May 30, 2011)

Great thread. I'm also switching from Advanced Sensi 2 part to Dynagrow. My reasoning is that it is just too hard on my wallet to buy all of the Advanced stuff. Observations most helpful to me is any advice on RO water and how well DG holds its PH. Another thing on my list is a nute system that does not produce alot of salt buildup. That's because I use dripp systems and that crusty buildup is a problem and a pain.
So again, Homebrewer thanks for a very good tread. Tony in MI


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## burrr (May 30, 2011)

I've been running dynagrow since HB first posted his great results. I've got 3 in a RDWC that are showing nice progress. I'm running these at about 1.0 ec. Here they are at day 2, day 9, and day 16


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## newworldicon (May 30, 2011)

burrr said:


> I've been running dynagrow since HB first posted his great results. I've got 3 in a RDWC that are showing nice progress. I'm running these at about 1.0 ec. Here they are at day 2, day 9, and day 16
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1625585View attachment 1625586View attachment 1625587


Were they clones and did you start with a EC of 1.0 to start or have you built up to that?


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## burrr (May 30, 2011)

newworldicon said:


> Were they clones and did you start with a EC of 1.0 to start or have you built up to that?


They have been building up to it, i'm a little gun shy with nute burn so I keep them light. Also a believer in Homebrewers less is more theory. 
I'm running these 3 girls with Zone root conditioner to fight the root rot, I have another 3 girls just starting flower that are on the bacteria tea program.

Yep, these were clones. started off around 300 ppm, and ramped up to 550 or so.


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## mr.smileyface (May 31, 2011)

Yep i am now using my Advanced only for veg/first two weeks. I couldnt find dyna gro but i found hydrofuel A+B and this stuff called massive. Its made by green planet. I paid 30$ for each 1 gallon part. I paid about the same for a gallon of the massive. Makes sense cause im gonna be using them at the same rate. at 10ml gallon for weeks 3- 7
http://www.pnwgardensupply.com/products/Hydro-Fuel-Bloom-A&B.html
http://www.pnwgardensupply.com/products/Massive.html
Its the best mid bloom additive there is. Advanced cant even afford to make it. 4.64 -4- 11.4. Thats my overall nute %
Do you think i should add a Pk booster? Im gonna be using Massive at half strenght. I think im lacking P in the mix. I would be using monsterbloom and its 50-30. So im thinking half strenght of that should balance it out. 
I couldnt find the dyna grow or i would have bought it.
Complete nutrient solutions are what everyone needs


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## sparkafire (Jun 1, 2011)

I am a HUGE fan of DG after switching from the floranova series. I am only running the bloom with both Magpro and Protekt so I am interested in the combo mix you have going on. Have you run just bloom before and found it worked better with help from the grow? I am running ppm's of 850 to 900 and no where near the 1400 they say to use. Do you think I could up the nutes a little bit?

Here is my grow if you are interested. 
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/429152-sparkys-60-plants-7x7-room.html


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## homebrewer (Jun 1, 2011)

sparkafire said:


> I am a HUGE fan of DG after switching from the floranova series. I am only running the bloom with both Magpro and Protekt so I am interested in the combo mix you have going on. Have you run just bloom before and found it worked better with help from the grow? I am running ppm's of 850 to 900 and no where near the 1400 they say to use. Do you think I could up the nutes a little bit?
> 
> Here is my grow if you are interested.
> https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/429152-sparkys-60-plants-7x7-room.html


 I've run 'bloom only' and found that I got some N deficiencies and some leaf drop in my strains. So I added 1-2mls of bloom per gallon and now it's green 'til harvest. 

Depending on what scale you're on, 850-900ppm or about 1.2-1.3 EC is where I like to run things and I get the best yields by doing so. I ran _ their_ nute schedule though my GH vs DG thread and there was clearly some nute burn by week 4 at their generic levels. Can't blame them, it's just a suggestion across all plants and vegetables.


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## sparkafire (Jun 1, 2011)

Thanks HB that helps. I am not seeing N def yet so I will just keep an eye on it.


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## nixusr (Jun 1, 2011)

another great comparision! subd!


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## homebrewer (Jun 2, 2011)

Day 29 today and we&#8217;re trucking right along. Connoisseur has been consistent in the fact that it continues to need a couple pH adjustments throughout the week and the growth seems to be nice and steady. The nutrients are keeping the plants healthy but I think the performance difference between DynaGro and Connoisseur is becoming more obvious as the weeks pass. AN&#8217;s fertilizer seems to be keeping the leaves green and intact, just like DynaGro does, but Connoisseur's bud density at this point seems to be maybe 5 days behind? We've not even half way done so maybe things will even out in the weeks to come. Update in a week.

Here are the ladies:




Connoisseur day 29:



DynaGro Day 29:







Connoisseur day 29:




DynaGro Day 29:


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## burrr (Jun 2, 2011)

Homebrewer, I see a little leaf curl going on. is this normal for your AK?


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## homebrewer (Jun 2, 2011)

burrr said:


> Homebrewer, I see a little leaf curl going on. is this normal for your AK?


It's nothing I'm concerned with but those are the signs that feeding levels may have been a touch high. I'm normally feeding between 800-850 and after mixing my last res, I was closer to 900 with Connoisseur and koolbloom. I diluted it down as much as I could but my res isn't that big. I've already made a tweak to my mls/gallon for this evening's res change so it'll be back down to the 800-850 range.


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## newworldicon (Jun 2, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> It's nothing I'm concerned with but those are the signs that feeding levels may have been a touch high. I'm normally feeding between 800-850 and after mixing my last res, I was closer to 900 with Connoisseur and koolbloom. I diluted it down as much as I could but my res isn't that big. I've already made a tweak to my mls/gallon for this evening's res change so it'll be back down to the 800-850 range.


Have you always run such low EC values in ebb&flood? It would explain the problems I had in E&F earlier in the year then!


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## mr.smileyface (Jun 2, 2011)

Ive ran connie at 1200ppm + additives and didnt get burnt. My co2 levels were 1800 with a matador controller. in a sealed room. Unfortantly a seal broke around my window and was left unseen for a week. I put a 2x4 frame around the window frame with a couple sheets of black and white. I couldnt screw the top in cause there was no room for the drill. So I tried to staple it with a air gun. but the force of an Portable A/C and an 8 inch fan broke the seal.
It leak and cause major heat problems. I was running cooltube and the exhaust from the a/c. If the lights wernt so close i could have saved them. I had the lights so low cause of the shades i was using. I also had an 8 inch fan for the four lights. I still got 4.5 pounds of decent herb. I had so many empty canopey space tho. I only had 40 some plants under the four lights. 
I think the ghetto setups work better tho. Big fans and less chance of failure. You can keep it consistent with thermostats and a/c. But no where near a sealed room.
Nice comparison. I didnt think juice really made much a differnce considering its all the same elements. Its all the about the ratios. The DG looks white compared to the connie that looks green. Also the tops are more round.


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## newworldicon (Jun 2, 2011)

mr.smileyface said:


> Ive ran connie at 1200ppm + additives and didnt get burnt. My co2 levels were 1800 with a matador controller. in a sealed room. Unfortantly a seal broke around my window and was left unseen for a week. I put a 2x4 frame around the window frame with a couple sheets of black and white. I couldnt screw the top in cause there was no room for the drill. So I tried to staple it with a air gun. but the force of an Portable A/C and an 8 inch fan broke the seal.
> It leak and cause major heat problems. I was running cooltube and the exhaust from the a/c. If the lights wernt so close i could have saved them. I had the lights so low cause of the shades i was using. I also had an 8 inch fan for the four lights. I still got 4.5 pounds of decent herb. I had so many empty canopey space tho. I only had 40 some plants under the four lights.
> I think the ghetto setups work better tho. Big fans and less chance of failure. You can keep it consistent with thermostats and a/c. But no where near a sealed room.
> Nice comparison. I didnt think juice really made much a differnce considering its all the same elements. Its all the about the ratios. The DG looks white compared to the connie that looks green. Also the tops are more round.


You might want to try using a hot glue gun, i use it all the time and it works a treat, sticks to anything is strong as f**k and has a great heat tolerance if needed.


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## mr.smileyface (Jun 2, 2011)

i think its the fact that your running dyna grow with veg nutes. The first two weeks im always feeding low and with veg/bloom nutes. You know the three part deal.


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## rosecitypapa (Jun 2, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> It's nothing I'm concerned with but those are the signs that feeding levels may have been a touch high. I'm normally feeding between 800-850 and after mixing my last res, I was closer to 900 with Connoisseur and koolbloom. I diluted it down as much as I could but my res isn't that big. I've already made a tweak to my mls/gallon for this evening's res change so it'll be back down to the 800-850 range.


Just for kicks there are two afghani's I have in DWC buckets started with DG Grow 7-9-5 @ 600ppm. I noticed that overall the plants looked a little yellow. I changed it out to Foliage Pro 9-3-6 @ 1050ppm. My water starts at 40ppm. They started to green up overall slightly and the new growth was nice and green. However, the older leaves were still getting a little yellow. 

Not to be thwarted in greening up my plants, I doubled the ppms of one afghani to 2000 ppms (EC 2.0) with 9-3-6 and the other I used cal/mag to double the ppms to 2000 ppms (EC 2.0). After a week, the one with the cal/mag addition looks greener overall the other still green at the growing tips but the older leaves still yellowing. However with both plants, no sign of nutrient burn in the foliage from this change. I did notice leaf tip burn on some older leaves but that was before this experiment. I think it was my negligence on keeping my pH in check. I'm not certain leaf tip burn comes from too great a concentration of overall nutrients but more from one in particular, maybe calcium, any ideas?

I'm thinking that the overall yellowing was a combination of lower nitrogen in the 7-9-5 product used during veg and that the plants have been out in the greenhouse with low nighttime temps. (50's sometimes 40's this past month)


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## homebrewer (Jun 2, 2011)

newworldicon said:


> Have you always run such low EC values in ebb&flood? It would explain the problems I had in E&F earlier in the year then!


Nope. I fed like an idiot at first thinking 'pushing plants is _advanced _growing'. I was wrong. I could feed at 2.0 EC for the first 4 weeks of flower without seeing much harm, however, salt buildups in the medium along with high feeding levels all around took their toll and by the final weeks, I had lots of crispy leaves and a nutrient smell in the buds.

These plants can take a lot of abuse in regards to feeding levels and just because you're not seeing any damage now doesn't mean you're not hurting yourself in the weeks to come.



rosecitypapa said:


> Just for kicks there are two afghani's I have in DWC buckets started with DG Grow 7-9-5 @ 600ppm. I noticed that overall the plants looked a little yellow. I changed it out to Foliage Pro 9-3-6 @ 1050ppm. My water starts at 40ppm. They started to green up overall slightly and the new growth was nice and green. However, the older leaves were still getting a little yellow.
> 
> Not to be thwarted in greening up my plants, I doubled the ppms of one afghani to 2000 ppms (EC 2.0) with 9-3-6 and the other I used cal/mag to double the ppms to 2000 ppms (EC 2.0). After a week, the one with the cal/mag addition looks greener overall the other still green at the growing tips but the older leaves still yellowing. However with both plants, no sign of nutrient burn in the foliage from this change. I did notice leaf tip burn on some older leaves but that was before this experiment. I think it was my negligence on keeping my pH in check. I'm not certain leaf tip burn comes from too great a concentration of overall nutrients but more from one in particular, maybe calcium, any ideas?
> 
> I'm thinking that the overall yellowing was a combination of lower nitrogen in the 7-9-5 product used during veg and that the plants have been out in the greenhouse with low nighttime temps. (50's sometimes 40's this past month)


The 7-9-5 works great for me and the plants never show signs of needing more than 600ppms or about .85 EC.


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## sparkafire (Jun 3, 2011)

HB, Whats your thoughts on using additives with DG that are supposed to be used tward the last half of flower? I am going into the 5th week and man I just cant see spending the money if there is no difference in crystals or size. If you do recommend using one which one? 

Thanks


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## homebrewer (Jun 3, 2011)

sparkafire said:


> HB, Whats your thoughts on using additives with DG that are supposed to be used tward the last half of flower? I am going into the 5th week and man I just cant see spending the money if there is no difference in crystals or size. If you do recommend using one which one?
> 
> Thanks


 You don't need any NPK type additives but a few additives that I have sitting around that seem to have a positive ascetic influence on the final product (extra resin, more aroma, etc.) are florablend and floralicious plus from GH. They're not too expensive but it's up to you to determine if they're worth the cost.


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## igalig (Jun 3, 2011)

HB-Thanks for the thread! Lots of great info in here. Just a couple questions (sorry im a newbie but trying hard to get the right info^^):

1- This grow is hydro...have you ever grown the DG products in soil? If so, what type of results? Im just starting and think soil is the best starting point for me. 

2- Just to make sure I understand the DG grow is grow 7-9-5, bloom 3-12-6, mag-pro and pro-tekt? anything im missing?


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## homebrewer (Jun 3, 2011)

igalig said:


> 1- This grow is hydro...have you ever grown the DG products in soil? If so, what type of results? Im just starting and think soil is the best starting point for me.


DG works great in 'soil' but I use sunshine mix #4 or #8, whichever one is just a peat-based medium with no nutrients. I used to use Pure Blend with good results but DG was easier to use and yielded more.



> 2- Just to make sure I understand the DG grow is grow 7-9-5, bloom 3-12-6, mag-pro and pro-tekt? anything im missing?


Those are the only DG products I use.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 3, 2011)

It seems obvious where this is going to end up... Subbed nonetheless... I lept before I looked with the fog HB- so now I gotta go do a full HP aero setup to satisfy my tinkering hobby ... I will be using your DG ratios as a starting point (albeit less ppms)- so hopefully once up and running I'll have some DG in True aero results to report soon once all my pumps and accumulators show up...


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## rosecitypapa (Jun 3, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Nope. I fed like an idiot at first thinking 'pushing plants is _advanced _growing'. I was wrong. I could feed at 2.0 EC for the first 4 weeks of flower without seeing much harm, however, salt buildups in the medium along with high feeding levels all around took their toll and by the final weeks, I had lots of crispy leaves and a nutrient smell in the buds.
> 
> These plants can take a lot of abuse in regards to feeding levels and just because you're not seeing any damage now doesn't mean you're not hurting yourself in the weeks to come.
> 
> The 7-9-5 works great for me and the plants never show signs of needing more than 600ppms or about .85 EC.


Good to know! Thanks for sharing that tip, saved me some time, some headache and a future harvest! It was important for me to do, realizing that mj does have a bit of tolerance in feeding concentrations.


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## iRevolution (Jun 3, 2011)

funny, i've never even heard of Dyna Gro until now. Good comparison, sub'd for sure. Great work man!


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## burrr (Jun 3, 2011)

I'm still looking good at day 20, running dynagrow grow and bloom at 1.0 EC
PH is stable. super stoked on this round! thanks, HB


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## homebrewer (Jun 3, 2011)

burrr said:


> I'm still looking good at day 20, running dynagrow grow and bloom at 1.0 EC
> PH is stable. super stoked on this round! thanks, HBView attachment 1631765


 Plants don't get much healthier than that, well done!


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## insomnia47 (Jun 3, 2011)

just pick up the DG line, grow, bloom and protekt fed it to some bhut jalokia peppers in hydro buckets. the difference was over night, they look much better now! time to test it on the real crops now


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## J. Smoker (Jun 4, 2011)

It takes a whole hell of a lot to get me to comment on this here forum but, I have got to give credit where it is due. HB you got it going on with the dyna-gro. Seems like you got it geared in. I just started using dyna-gro after seeing the difference between it and agricultural organics (yellow bottles) and let me tell you, night and day difference. Not to mention, everything is in one bottle. Keep it up and can't wait to see the final results.


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## I dont know (Jun 4, 2011)

J. Smoker said:


> It takes a whole hell of a lot to get me to comment on this here forum but, I have got to give credit where it is due. HB you got it going on with the dyna-gro. Seems like you got it geared in. I just started using dyna-gro after seeing the difference between it and agricultural organics (yellow bottles) and let me tell you, night and day difference. Not to mention, everything is in one bottle. Keep it up and can't wait to see the final results.


So you used the yellow bottles? And didn't like the results compared to dyna gro's?

Welcome aboard the dyna-gro ship lol


HB glad your finally doing a comparison against advanced products which everyone seems to talk so highly of. I know dyna-gro wont let's us down


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## burrr (Jun 5, 2011)

I gotta know!, what is in dynagrow that makes it out perform GH and AN? is it simply the NPK ratios? better chelation of micro's, is it because dynagrow has 3 more trace elements that others don't have. ancient chinese secret, huh.


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## homebrewer (Jun 5, 2011)

burrr said:


> I gotta know!, what is in dynagrow that makes it out perform GH and AN? is it simply the NPK ratios? better chelation of micro's, is it because dynagrow has 3 more trace elements that others don't have. ancient chinese secret, huh.


 I'm not calling a winner yet in this comparison. _Should_ DynaGro 'win', I'd credit the more desirable NPK ratio along with the fact that it includes all other essential minerals that plants need. Despite what some of the fert companies tell us, there are no secrets in these bottles that will make any substantial difference that aren't required to be listed on the back of the product.


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## EmptyWords (Jun 5, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I'm not calling a winner yet in this comparison. _Should_ DynaGro 'win', I'd credit the more desirable NPK ratio along with the fact that it includes all other essential minerals that plants need. Despite what some of the fert companies tell us, there are no secrets in these bottles that will make any substantial difference that aren't required to be listed on the back of the product.


 After seeing what you have said and seeing your results with dyna gro i think i am going to give it a try. I have been researching different nutes today and i currently run sensi with big bud, and bud candy but i want to try something else. I tried gh flora series with bigbud and bud candy and it seemed like gh had better smoke. Sensi has some pretty huge ph fluctuation for me but that could be because i only use 8 gallons of solution. I want to try something new for my new strains showing up soon "sannies jack and jack berry" and also continue my OG #18 for a comparison to previous grows. Do you have some recommendations for some additives to run? I was thinking of getting some mag pro and possibly trying the rest of my big bud and bud candy just for shits and giggles. I run aero and i am looking to try to increase my yields. I run 2000w and get about 2 pound harvests which i am good with but i would like to try to go for the 1 gram per watt level for the first time.
EDIT.
I think I am just going to try dyna bloom, mag pro and silica blast and see how it goes. I already have silica blast so i might as well use it and i will probably ditch the AN stuff, maybe just use bud candy.


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## homebrewer (Jun 5, 2011)

EmptyWords said:


> Do you have some recommendations for some additives to run?


Magpro if you're using RO water and protekt no matter what your water source is. 



> ... and possibly trying the rest of my big bud and bud candy just for shits and giggles.


I would suggest you do not use those with DynaGro, I promise you will do more harm than good.



> I run 2000w and get about 2 pound harvests which i am good with but i would like to try to go for the 1 gram per watt level for the first time.


On a less-than-average grow, I'll get a pound from a 600 watter. I'm not bragging but you can definitely do better than 1 pound per 1000.


> EDIT.
> I think I am just going to try dyna bloom, mag pro and silica blast and see how it goes. I already have silica blast so i might as well use it and i will probably ditch the AN stuff, maybe just use bud candy


I'd highly suggest you get the grow as well as the bloom and use them together in the flower cycle. 3-12-6 doesn't keep any of my strains green until harvest. Again, I'd suggest against ANY other NPK additives when using DG.


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## MasterS (Jun 5, 2011)

So HB on your less than average you get 1.34g/Watt. That's nice, I always thought 1g/1W was the goal for most. You obviously have passed that, so do you have a different goal?


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## homebrewer (Jun 5, 2011)

MasterS said:


> So HB on your less than average you get 1.34g/Watt. That's nice, I always thought 1g/1W was the goal for most. You obviously have passed that, so do you have a different goal?


 A pound is like 450 grams so that's 450/600 which equals .75 grams per watt.


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## MasterS (Jun 6, 2011)

This what I get for being on a forum much past my bed time >.< haha


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## J. Smoker (Jun 6, 2011)

I dont know said:


> So you used the yellow bottles? And didn't like the results compared to dyna gro's?
> 
> Welcome aboard the dyna-gro ship lol
> 
> ...


 Yeah I just used the yelllow bottles grow a&b and their bloom a&b, and the dyna-gro did way better in my opinion. With the dyna-gro my ladies stayed green until harvest. The yellow bottles were mediocre at best, not to mention their "phat" and "ooze" additives are each $120 for a liter. 
Sorry, but the price difference alone was enough for me to change brands. Not to mention the ease of use, I saved time and money. If you ask me dyna-gro is where its at.

J.


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## lunchbox421 (Jun 8, 2011)

Great show and awesome work homebrewer! Not much of a poster, more of a lurker. I have a question regarding the ratios of NPK you find best that I've been wanting clarification on since your last journal with the GH. You prefer the 3-1-2 for veg and 1-2-1 to 1-2.5-1.3ish for the bloom cycle. I was curious to know about calculating these ratios when using various products, additives and what-nots? Do you just multiply the NPK by the respective percentage of total blend, add the values and divide by their highest common factor (to a certain extent)? Thanks for your help and keep it up!


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## homebrewer (Jun 8, 2011)

lunchbox421 said:


> Great show and awesome work homebrewer! Not much of a poster, more of a lurker. I have a question regarding the ratios of NPK you find best that I've been wanting clarification on since your last journal with the GH. You prefer the 3-1-2 for veg and 1-2-1 to 1-2.5-1.3ish for the bloom cycle.


1-1-1 works fine for veg. I don't try to emulate a particular ratio in veg since the fertilizers I've used over the years with a decent amount of N seem to all perform the same. In flower, I like something close to 1-3-2.



> I was curious to know about calculating these ratios when using various products, additives and what-nots? Do you just multiply the NPK by the respective percentage of total blend, add the values and divide by their highest common factor (to a certain extent)? Thanks for your help and keep it up!


I'll simplify this to illustrate how I generally 'ballpark' NPK ratios. Say you have two formulas of (veg) 3-1-2 and (flower) 2-7-4 and both contribute the same ppm to a gallon of water. You can roughly just average the two by adding first, then dividing (adding results in 5-8-6, then divide: 2.5-4-3). The resulting number isn't a ratio per se but could be. In this case, the ratio would be 1-1.6-1.2.

Sometimes I'll use one part veg and two parts flower. So with the NPK values above, I'd double the flower NPK and add it to the veg, then divide by three (_3-1-2_ + _4-14-8_ = 7-15-10...divide that by 3 equals 2.3-5-3.3). That resulting NPK value roughly equates to a 1-2.1-1.4 NPK ratio which isn't bad at all for flower. I wrote some excel spreadsheet formulas when I was bored at work that calculates all this stuff just by putting in the values. Hope that makes sense.


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## W Dragon (Jun 9, 2011)

hey homebrewer i'm a little late as always mate but subbed along for the ride, great job as always mate and thanks for letting us follow along. your threads are soon to become my grail mate when i make the switch to E&F which should soon be on the horizon fingers crossed


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## newworldicon (Jun 9, 2011)

Any picture updates??


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## gonnagro (Jun 9, 2011)

I have used Dynagrow, AN, Foxfarm and Techniflora. In terms of results I find that Dynagrow's "Grow" is an excellent product, but I was not as impressed with their Bloom formula. AN is a better flowering formula, (especially their Hammerhead product). FF Big bloom when added to Dynagrow will improve flavor. Techniflora products although about as annoying to mix up as AN is, just works well as is, but yields are bigger with AN. So for me the best nutes for growing turned out to be a mix of Dynagrow, Foxfarm and AN products, (why do so many people think they have to stick with just one line throughout the whole grow?).


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## homebrewer (Jun 9, 2011)

Day 36 today and were just over halfway done. Connoisseur still seems to be trailing in the density department and the overall bud production (visually) seems to be lagging as well. 

The Connoisseur plants are a darker green and at this stage with DynaGro, Id be cutting back the grow formula to account for the lower nitrogen needs of the plants. With ANs Connoisseur, I cannot do this. When Im using DG and scaling back the nitrogen, this naturally scales up the phosphorus a touch and those ratios are personally what I think is making the difference here. At just past the halfway point, I believe that Connoisseur is supplying more than enough nitrogen to support healthy leaves, not enough phosphorus to promote blooms, and an unnecessary amount of potassium. We can slice brands up by labels and marketing and say this worked better than that but at the end of the day, those NPK ratios are what is driving production and overall plant health. 


Oh, you may notice some cornmeal on the Connoisseur plants, Ive introduced some spider mite predators to combat the constant presence of pests. They do not get to the point where they affect yields or quality, but at harvest time I always find a few leaves in the back with severe damage and a colony of mites on the verge of spreading. Ill let you know how these bugs work. 

Here are the girls.







DynaGro day 36:





Connoisseur Day 36 (this is the largest Connoisseur bud at them moment):






DynaGro Day 36:





*There were some comments on the resin production of both brands, here is a closer look:*

AN Resin:




DG Resin:


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## homebrewer (Jun 9, 2011)

gonnagro said:


> I have used Dynagrow, AN, Foxfarm and Techniflora. In terms of results I find that Dynagrow's "Grow" is an excellent product, but I was not as impressed with their Bloom formula.


The demands the plants have during the veg cycle are easily met by just about any 'grow' fertilizer out there. DG's bloom formula needs more nitrogen which is why I supplement a touch of grow along with the bloom. 



> AN is a better flowering formula, (especially their Hammerhead product).


AN's flowering formula is why their yields (in all likelihood) will be lower at the end of this test. I don't think that makes it better . Hammerhead is another typical product with a wacky and pointless NPK value (2-4-10) which is basically identical to their kushie kush garbage (1-3-8 ). Had they switched those hammertime values to 2-10-4, that may actually work well with the lack-luster NPK ratios of their base nutes. 



> Techniflora products although about as annoying to mix up as AN is, just works well as is, but yields are bigger with AN. So for me the best nutes for growing turned out to be a mix of Dynagrow, Foxfarm and AN products, (why do so many people think they have to stick with just one line throughout the whole grow?).


It's not about brands, it's about the backs of the bottles. Use what works best for you but you should be able to explain _why_ something works better with an analysis of the mineral contents.


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## lunchbox421 (Jun 9, 2011)

Thanks for explaining homebrewer. I was going to build a spreadsheet (gotta love excel) for this as well to have together with my feedcharts and notes on different nutrients. I was thinking, using your example in your response with the 1 part 3-1-2 and 2 parts 2-7-4 plus say I want to add 1 part 2-10-4, I'd take .25(3-1-2)+.50(2-4-7)+.25(2-10-4)=2.25-6.25-3.50. If I divide this in half, or by two , to bring the values down it would bring me to 1.13-3.13-1.75. Does this make any logical sense or am I way off? I'm using a few different products right now and you've made me look at things a little different. Most of the additives don't change my NPK (enzymes, superthrive, etc) but some do. I want to figure out what my overall NPK is right now and at each weekly res change to see where I'm at. I always check to the back of the bottle to see what's going in but mainly just follow the chart. This way I can see where I could have done with less or more of something. Definitely going to give dyna-gro a run after seeing the great ph balance and ease of use but I'd like to get set up a flood and drain table first. Currently with coco and everything is great except when using drip systems you need to find a way to thoroughly water if not half starts to dry out too quickly. Anyhoo awesome pics and keep it up, be safe!


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## homebrewer (Jun 9, 2011)

Lunch - What is the NPK value of your base and additives and how much of each are you using? Like I said, I ballpark this stuff and knowing that my base usually makes up 80% of my total ppm coupled with the fact that I don't use more than 3 'npk' bottles, that makes it a lot easier than figuring out the figures when using 6 bottles. 

Quick example:

Connoisseur in equal parts (4-0-4) + (1-5-6) = (5-5-10) or a 1-1-2 ratio. 

Adding in koolbloom at (0-10-10) and comprising 15% or so of my total ppms results in about a (1-1.5-2.5) ratio. I wish the K and P were switched as 1-2.5-1.5 is solid. 

Anyways, not an exact science per se and starting with great ratios sure makes ending up with great ratios a lot easier.


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## lunchbox421 (Jun 9, 2011)

Currently I am using House & Garden Cocos A+B which are 8-0-0 and 2-4-10 respectively. I started backing off a bit after week 4 on the this and added in some pbp because some of my ladies were too green. I use about 50/50 mix of A+B and PBP per gallon. I also use RO water so I add Cal/Mag. Protekt at 3ml per gallon plus extra if need to ph up.A little Liquid Karma. And I'm starting week 7 so I'm giving H&G's Shooting Powder a run which is 0-39-25. With my cal/mag, protekt and liquid karma I'm at about .3-.4. After adding A+B I'm around .9ish and then I add pbp till around 1.2. Finally the Shooting Powder brings me up to 1.6-1.8. This is all off the top of my head since I don't have my notes with me. Next week I'll be adding more Shooting Pow and I think it'll bring me up to 1.8-2.0. I'll see after this week how they respond to the first week of SP and take it from there.


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## Coals (Jun 9, 2011)

Those conni plants look nitrated to the max. Too much green and it looks like the leaves are just beginning to claw. Definetly going to delay flowering. Also in my experience, when the plants are over fed like that late in the cycle it just gets worse even if you cut back on the EC.

I cant tell any difference in the resin production. A lab test would be required to do that.


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## burrr (Jun 9, 2011)

Coals said:


> Those conni plants look nitrated to the max. Too much green and it looks like the leaves are just beginning to claw. Definetly going to delay flowering. Also in my experience, when the plants are over fed like that late in the cycle it just gets worse even if you cut back on the EC.
> 
> I cant tell any difference in the resin production. A lab test would be required to do that.


when you say nitrated, do you mean nitrate nitrogen, or just to much N in general?


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## burrr (Jun 9, 2011)

HB, It's quite entertaining to watch the carnage that takes place with the predator mites. With a 30 power loop you can see the predators chowing on mites, and running around faster than the mites


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## rosecitypapa (Jun 9, 2011)

lunchbox421 said:


> Thanks for explaining homebrewer. I was going to build a spreadsheet (gotta love excel) for this as well to have together with my feedcharts and notes on different nutrients. I was thinking, using your example in your response with the 1 part 3-1-2 and 2 parts 2-7-4 plus say I want to add 1 part 2-10-4, I'd take .25(3-1-2)+.50(2-4-7)+.25(2-10-4)=2.25-6.25-3.50. If I divide this in half, or by two , to bring the values down it would bring me to 1.13-3.13-1.75. Does this make any logical sense or am I way off? I'm using a few different products right now and you've made me look at things a little different. Most of the additives don't change my NPK (enzymes, superthrive, etc) but some do. I want to figure out what my overall NPK is right now and at each weekly res change to see where I'm at. I always check to the back of the bottle to see what's going in but mainly just follow the chart. This way I can see where I could have done with less or more of something. Definitely going to give dyna-gro a run after seeing the great ph balance and ease of use but I'd like to get set up a flood and drain table first. Currently with coco and everything is great except when using drip systems you need to find a way to thoroughly water if not half starts to dry out too quickly. Anyhoo awesome pics and keep it up, be safe!


I've been attempting to do the same thing, and then came across this resource which has a link to Hydrobuddy:
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/368514-hydrobuddy-free-hydroponic-nute-calc.html

It's pretty fun to play around with. You can add the label ratios of any commericially available fertilizer and it will calculate the resultant ppms. I just used it to see how much Dyna-Gro 3-12-6 is needed to add with FP 9-3-6, Botanicare's Cal-Mag and Epsom salts to come up with an NPK of 1-3-2 with N to Ca @ 1 to .8 and Ca to Mag @ 1 to .5. 

My plants have been showing mag deficiency even with the addition of Cal-Mag. Hydrobuddy says my Cal Mag has 42 ppm of Ca and 15 ppm of Mag and it bumps up my N by 25 ppm.

I'm waiting on some callbacks from Dyna-Gro and Botanicare to verify the ppms that the software gives and what they know is in their product.


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## person1,000,001 (Jun 9, 2011)

using cns17 ripe 1-5-4(25ml/4L) in coco 100%, adding lava rock next time. Other nutes in the mix, hydroplex 0-10-5(8ml/4L), hygrozyme(12ml/4L), sweet-raw(15ml/4L), 3d amino cal-carb 4-0-0*10ml/4L(no longer using switched to organicare calplex by botanicare, hand't been using the hydroplex while using that until this last feed w/2.5 weeks left, giving me a 5-5-4 up till now, argh, but a good product.) Liquid karma 0.1-0.5-0.1 i think, giving me a ph of 6.79, tds 1440. My tap water ph is at 6.25 w/ tds 140. I'll have to see what the bloom part readings comes out as, cns17 is a 3 part program, a little annoying but I do like it. Have you tried any of the things I mentioned above? I'm really happy w/ what they did for me, but a little new to what measurements work best for hydro gardens. I used organic wet betty once and saw a nice difference in the leaves in that magical 3 day swing after using something good. Or its a bad 3 day swing if its a bad product. I hear people mention a need for a hardener but don't hear much about a wetting agent. The wetting agent sounds like its more useful to me, as from what I've read on the hardener Gravity by humboldt its a toss up as to how much it works. Any thoughts on this wide range of ponderings?


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## homebrewer (Jun 10, 2011)

Coals said:


> Those conni plants look nitrated to the max. Too much green and it looks like the leaves are just beginning to claw. Definetly going to delay flowering. Also in my experience, when the plants are over fed like that late in the cycle it just gets worse even if you cut back on the EC.
> 
> I cant tell any difference in the resin production. A lab test would be required to do that.


I agree, they are getting too much N at the moment but the EC levels are perfect for this strain (1.2 EC which is _exactly_ what the DG plants get). The big problem I have with Connoisseur's 2 part formula is that I cannot cut back the N without cutting back on everything. Each bottle contains a different set of minerals and when added together, they make a 'whole' fertilizer. I've already cut back to allow for some ppm for a PK booster and even then, they're a darker green than I'd prefer. 



person1 said:


> using cns17 ripe 1-5-4(25ml/4L) in coco 100%, adding lava rock next time. Other nutes in the mix, hydroplex 0-10-5(8ml/4L), hygrozyme(12ml/4L), sweet-raw(15ml/4L), 3d amino cal-carb 4-0-0*10ml/4L(no longer using switched to organicare calplex by botanicare, hand't been using the hydroplex while using that until this last feed w/2.5 weeks left, giving me a 5-5-4 up till now, argh, but a good product.) Liquid karma 0.1-0.5-0.1 i think, giving me a ph of 6.79, tds 1440. My tap water ph is at 6.25 w/ tds 140. I'll have to see what the bloom part readings comes out as, cns17 is a 3 part program, a little annoying but I do like it. Have you tried any of the things I mentioned above? I'm really happy w/ what they did for me, but a little new to what measurements work best for hydro gardens. I used organic wet betty once and saw a nice difference in the leaves in that magical 3 day swing after using something good. Or its a bad 3 day swing if its a bad product. I hear people mention a need for a hardener but don't hear much about a wetting agent. The wetting agent sounds like its more useful to me, as from what I've read on the hardener Gravity by humboldt its a toss up as to how much it works. Any thoughts on this wide range of ponderings?


 That's too many products for me to manage. I'd simply to the necessities.


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## jamesking (Jun 10, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Day 36 today and were just over halfway done. Connoisseur still seems to be trailing in the density department and the overall bud production (visually) seems to be lagging as well.
> 
> The Connoisseur plants are a darker green and at this stage with DynaGro, Id be cutting back the grow formula to account for the lower nitrogen needs of the plants. With ANs Connoisseur, I cannot do this. When Im using DG and scaling back the nitrogen, this naturally scales up the phosphorus a touch and those ratios are personally what I think is making the difference here. At just past the halfway point, I believe that Connoisseur is supplying more than enough nitrogen to support healthy leaves, not enough phosphorus to promote blooms, and an unnecessary amount of potassium. We can slice brands up by labels and marketing and say this worked better than that but at the end of the day, those NPK ratios are what is driving production and overall plant health.
> 
> ...


I've been using AN Sensi A/B as a base nute and it has pretty much ruined every crop I have done. There's always some kind of deficiency showing up and the yield is pathetic. For a 1000w light I would yield about 6 ounces. That's just sad. With Conni, it'd be slightly better but not enough to justify the price. AND there's still deficiencies showing up. The AN Sensi Grow formula is ok. haven't had a MAJOR problem with that yet, but the mothers would show deficiencies though, meaning that long-term use will eventually bring the problems to the surface. I have a profound hatred for the hydro shop owner for turning me onto AN. Now, I'm using dynabloom as a base. Hopefully, everything'll get better...


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## burrr (Jun 10, 2011)

Here's my 3 girls on the dyna gro diet. still running 1.0 EC, or about 500 on my ppm meter.


I've got a little curl on the newer bud leaves, but my fan leaves are still nice and flat. Does curl on the bud leaves mean anything? I doubt I'm over feeding.


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## homebrewer (Jun 10, 2011)

burrr said:


> View attachment 1642133View attachment 1642134View attachment 1642135Here's my 3 girls on the dyna gro diet. still running 1.0 EC, or about 500 on my ppm meter.View attachment 1642121
> View attachment 1642122View attachment 1642123
> 
> I've got a little curl on the newer bud leaves, but my fan leaves are still nice and flat. Does curl on the bud leaves mean anything? I doubt I'm over feeding.


 Just keep doing what you're doing. Be patient. You'll be in for a real treat at the end.


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## mr.smileyface (Jun 10, 2011)

jamesking said:


> I've been using AN Sensi A/B as a base nute and it has pretty much ruined every crop I have done. There's always some kind of deficiency showing up and the yield is pathetic. For a 1000w light I would yield about 6 ounces. That's just sad. With Conni, it'd be slightly better but not enough to justify the price. AND there's still deficiencies showing up. The AN Sensi Grow formula is ok. haven't had a MAJOR problem with that yet, but the mothers would show deficiencies though, meaning that long-term use will eventually bring the problems to the surface. I have a profound hatred for the hydro shop owner for turning me onto AN. Now, I'm using dynabloom as a base. Hopefully, everything'll get better...


Check your room before your food. HB isnt trying to advertise Dyna grow. he is explaining that a your plants need a complete nutrient solution. Not a fancy brand name. 
If you spend the extra money on juice you should have got the full line up. This is where advanced nutes jews you. Every other two part i know of, are more complete than there two parts. Ussualy a good grower will get the same yield out of a room no matter what the juice is. 
Hb is just giving advice towards feeding your plants what they need. Not what the store owner wants to sell you.


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## homebrewer (Jun 10, 2011)

jamesking said:


> I've been using AN Sensi A/B as a base nute and it has pretty much ruined every crop I have done. There's always some kind of deficiency showing up and the yield is pathetic. For a 1000w light I would yield about 6 ounces. That's just sad. With Conni, it'd be slightly better but not enough to justify the price. AND there's still deficiencies showing up. The AN Sensi Grow formula is ok. haven't had a MAJOR problem with that yet, but the mothers would show deficiencies though, meaning that long-term use will eventually bring the problems to the surface. I have a profound hatred for the hydro shop owner for turning me onto AN. Now, I'm using dynabloom as a base. Hopefully, everything'll get better...


Your signature implies that you have 3 grows under your belt so odds are, the plant food you're using isn't killing your plants, inexperience is. Dynagro is quite concentrated so if you were hurting your plants with AN, DynaGro isn't going to fare any better when misused. Mastering when and how much to feed and water is something that takes a while to master. Stick with it but in the mean time, move to a cheaper nutrient .


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## Coals (Jun 11, 2011)

burrr said:


> when you say nitrated, do you mean nitrate nitrogen, or just to much N in general?


Nitrogen is what drives the green colour in a plant. Extremely dark green, almost black and glossy leaves generally indicate too much nitrogen. Leaves will curl down and in, like a Rams horn, as it gets worse.


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## homebrewer (Jun 11, 2011)

Coals said:


> .... almost black and glossy leaves generally indicate too much nitrogen.


 The glossy look in this case is from spider mite sprays like neem and azamax. But you're right about the dark green .


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## smokeweeda (Jun 11, 2011)

so i had a quick question about the dyna grow line.. i've been using it along with "snow storm ultra" and "crystal burst" from humboldt's own..do u ya think im better off trying to add bennies (like great white?) or just try em and see if it works? i saw one of your post that said adding supplements my cause more problems then it will help anything, do u think that's the case with these? any help would be awesome..


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## homebrewer (Jun 11, 2011)

smokeweeda said:


> so i had a quick question about the dyna grow line.. i've been using it along with "snow storm ultra" and "crystal burst" from humboldt's own..do u ya think im better off trying to add bennies (like great white?) or just try em and see if it works? i saw one of your post that said adding supplements my cause more problems then it will help anything, do u think that's the case with these? any help would be awesome..


 Forget that junk from humboldt and master the simplicity of growing before adding supplements. Hardly any of them are worth the money and none of them will make a difference like feeding at proper levels in with good NPK ratios.


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## smokeweeda (Jun 11, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Forget that junk from humboldt and master the simplicity of growing before adding supplements. Hardly any of them are worth the money and none of them will make a difference like feeding at proper levels in with good NPK ratios.


thanks def. appreciate the input.. suckered into snake oils, at least i have some cool bottles right? haha


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## 711grower (Jun 12, 2011)

to mr smiley face. lets keep your personal prejudices out of this forum. there is enough hatrid and ignorance in this world. this is an awesome thread and very informative. "This is where advanced nutes jews you" is not appreciated. not all jews are money hungry greedy people. Im not even sure BIG MIKE of advaced nutrients is even jewish so lets keep comments that have nothing to do with this thread out of it.....home brew thank you so much for sharing your experiences with us. they are highly appreciated....


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## mr.smileyface (Jun 12, 2011)

711grower said:


> to mr smiley face. lets keep your personal prejudices out of this forum. there is enough hatrid and ignorance in this world. this is an awesome thread and very informative. "This is where advanced nutes jews you" is not appreciated. not all jews are money hungry greedy people. Im not even sure BIG MIKE of advaced nutrients is even jewish so lets keep comments that have nothing to do with this thread out of it.....home brew thank you so much for sharing your experiences with us. they are highly appreciated....


I wasnt using it in a rasict way. Im sure HB can speak for him self. Im not trying to flood this thread. Do you work for advanced or something? Brand names dont mean anything. You think dyna grow is gonna fix all your problems? Wtf can u add to make people learn? Im trying to give my two cents on this site. If you read my thread.. 
Hb good thread by the way. Advanced nutrients is a greedy hype. Maybe if they put there products together instead of with water they would have a solid base.


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## cleverpiggy (Jun 12, 2011)

Holy political correctness Batman.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jun 13, 2011)

subbed......


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## jamesking (Jun 13, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Your signature implies that you have 3 grows under your belt so odds are, the plant food you're using isn't killing your plants, inexperience is. Dynagro is quite concentrated so if you were hurting your plants with AN, DynaGro isn't going to fare any better when misused. Mastering when and how much to feed and water is something that takes a while to master. Stick with it but in the mean time, move to a cheaper nutrient .


Actually, I have about 12 grows under my belt. I started by babysitting a friend's grow from start to end for about 6 runs and it was great. My last run with him yielded about 2.3 lbs/light. It was when I went on my own that everything fell apart. I looked for the nutes the original recipe called for and couldn't find it, so I took the shop owner's suggestion and went with AN; it costed me a fortune and I didn't know what I was doing wrong because weird deficiencies showed up all the time and I contributed it to temperature/humidity/etc. At the time I didn't know about NPK and all that other good stuff. It was only recently when I yielded 0.5lb/light that I started studying up on everything. Now, I'm taking it to the molecular level past the big 3 (N P & K) and I'm thinking about going to grad school for Agronomy. 

I'm actually really upset with this shop owner because he suggested a bunch of stuff that ruined about 3 harvests. Either way, it's my fault and I take responsibility. The thing that still bothers me is the range of differing opinions out there (NPK ratios and whatnot). The only thing consistent are the reviews for dyna-gro, and the only downside for Dyna-grow is the ammoniacal nitrogen, which breaks down over time and lowers Ph (but only a concern with recirculating reservoirs). Anyhow, thanks for documenting your grow. I've been following your past journals and it's been very informative. I'm actually on the same day schedule as you so it's a good comparison to see what my grow SHOULD look like at day so-n-so. Your's is much bigger and better lol. But I know why. My girls are too close to the lights and I started using dynaBLOOM at week 3 with no dynaGROW at all... 

Btw, I have a question. Do you use RO water? My tap water is 300 and I remember you said to reach for a PPM of 1400 max. Does that mean I'm shooting for 1700PPM?


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## burrr (Jun 13, 2011)

Jamesking, On my last try at DWC with dynagro I was having problems.... slime, nute burn etc. For me, it as the hygrozyme that seemed to cause, or intensify my DWC problems. My ph would drop, and I blamed the ammoniacal nitrogen for that, when it was slime and root rot causing the ph to drop.
It sounds like lots of people have problems using hygrozyme.
I have also found that plants are plenty happy on lower level of nutes, even just 500 ppm at peak bloom keeps them happy. I add back water w/ nutes daily. For happy roots in DWC I had to go sterile (dutchmaster gold ZONE) or beneficial bacteria. no more hygrozyme for me.

I also added more air to my buckets, and cool them to under 70 degrees. I finally have a grow that looks like one of Homebrewers. 
see my day 28 pics earlier in this thread.


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## jamesking (Jun 13, 2011)

burrr said:


> Jamesking, On my last try at DWC with dynagro I was having problems.... slime, nute burn etc. For me, it as the hygrozyme that seemed to cause, or intensify my DWC problems. My ph would drop, and I blamed the ammoniacal nitrogen for that, when it was slime and root rot causing the ph to drop.
> It sounds like lots of people have problems using hygrozyme.
> I have also found that plants are plenty happy on lower level of nutes, even just 500 ppm at peak bloom keeps them happy. I add back water w/ nutes daily. For happy roots in DWC I had to go sterile (dutchmaster gold ZONE) or beneficial bacteria. no more hygrozyme for me.
> 
> ...


Hmmm interesting. I do use hygrozyme. That would explain the murkiness. Guess I'll just do it without the hygrozyme. I'm also using bud candy. What do you think about bud candy?


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## burrr (Jun 13, 2011)

For now, skip it. Just go with the dynagrow, and the protect. I use about 1ml grow, 7ml bloom, and 5ml protecK per gallon, that is all. than I add my slime control, either Zone or BB. My first few grows I would look at my plants that were getting to much N and think they looked awesome, with giant dark green leaves. I'm running very low nutes, but getting my best results yet.

I also made a choice to grow just one strain at a time, and try to learn what it likes.


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## homebrewer (Jun 13, 2011)

FWIW, I've never needed to control slime when using ANY nutrient. The only time I had a slime issue is when I was using water from my dehumidifier. Tap water or RO was totally fine, even when adding 'organic' additives from GH. 

JameKing - I use RO water now. But when I didn't, my tap water ppm was included in my total ppm (I'd highly recommend against 1400 ppm). So If I'm feeding at 900ppm and my tap water is 200ppm, then I'm adding 700ppm of nutrients. I had great results with tap water at 200ppm btw. I only moved to RO because over the winter, my tap spiked up to low 300's and that's bad for my plants _and_ my beers .


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## jamesking (Jun 13, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> FWIW, I've never needed to control slime when using ANY nutrient. The only time I had a slime issue is when I was using water from my dehumidifier. Tap water or RO was totally fine, even when adding 'organic' additives from GH.
> 
> JameKing - I use RO water now. But when I didn't, my tap water ppm was included in my total ppm (I'd highly recommend against 1400 ppm). So If I'm feeding at 900ppm and my tap water is 200ppm, then I'm adding 700ppm of nutrients. I had great results with tap water at 200ppm btw. I only moved to RO because over the winter, my tap spiked up to low 300's and that's bad for my plants _and_ my beers .


I have an off the topic question... what do you think is more important? Phosphorus or potassium for flowering?


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## homebrewer (Jun 13, 2011)

jamesking said:


> I have an off the topic question... what do you think is more important? Phosphorus or potassium for flowering?


 They're both important but I've had the best results when I'm using a fertilizer that supplies a little more P than K.


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## jamesking (Jun 13, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> They're both important but I've had the best results when I'm using a fertilizer that supplies a little more P than K.


Thanks. Rep'd


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## jamesking (Jun 13, 2011)

jamesking said:


> Thanks. Rep'd


HB, can you help me understand something? I'm doing some research online about NPK ratios and it's a bit confusing. Dyna BLOOM has 3-12-6. Conni has a combined NPK of 5-5-10. Are you striving for a target PPM or do you measure by quantity? It seems to me that at 1200ppm for something like Sensi A/B (or conni) you would have to use a lot and it doesn't burn the girls, but 1200ppm for DynaBLOOM is on the high end and would have a negative impact. I'm asking because I wanted to use a bottle of Overdrive (1-5-4) mixed with a bottle of DynaGROW I have (7-9-5) since combining those two will give me appx the NPK ratio I want. Thanks.


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## homebrewer (Jun 14, 2011)

jamesking said:


> HB, can you help me understand something? I'm doing some research online about NPK ratios and it's a bit confusing. Dyna BLOOM has 3-12-6. Conni has a combined NPK of 5-5-10. Are you striving for a target PPM or do you measure by quantity? It seems to me that at 1200ppm for something like Sensi A/B (or conni) you would have to use a lot and it doesn't burn the girls, but 1200ppm for DynaBLOOM is on the high end and would have a negative impact. I'm asking because I wanted to use a bottle of Overdrive (1-5-4) mixed with a bottle of DynaGROW I have (7-9-5) since combining those two will give me appx the NPK ratio I want. Thanks.


 DO NOT use overdrive with DynaGro. That's like putting A1 steak sauce on a steak.

I feed at a particular ppm/EC level no matter what nutes I'm using. 1200ppm is 1200ppm, regardless of brand. Some just make better use of their formulas.


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## drekoushranada (Jun 14, 2011)

Now this is a good grow. My Dyna Gro Bloom and Grow just can in the mail. My plants are about week old. Im about to start them at 300ppm. Great job HB.


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## medicine21 (Jun 14, 2011)

burrr said:


> I also added more air to my buckets, and cool them to under 70 degrees. I finally have a grow that looks like one of Homebrewers.
> see my day 28 pics earlier in this thread.


How do you cool your buckets?


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## jamesking (Jun 14, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> DO NOT use overdrive with DynaGro. That's like putting A1 steak sauce on a steak.
> 
> I feed at a particular ppm/EC level no matter what nutes I'm using. 1200ppm is 1200ppm, regardless of brand. Some just make better use of their formulas.


How come some people are able to go as high as 1650-1800 for Sensi A/B or some other brand but with DynaBloom it burns?


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## burrr (Jun 14, 2011)

I have my res pumping through 25' of tubing bunched up in a dorm fridge. simple cheap inline cooler


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## burrr (Jun 14, 2011)

jamesking said:


> How come some people are able to go as high as 1650-1800 for Sensi A/B or some other brand but with DynaBloom it burns?


That's a good question! Maybe if you slowly ramp up your numbers you can harden your plants up to handle those numbers. I have found my sweet spot to be around 1.1 EC, or 550 ppm on my brand of meter. Don't forget that some of those people running 1500 ppm and up may be using the other conversion factors, and be closer to 1.1 EC than it looks like.


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## jamesking (Jun 14, 2011)

burrr said:


> That's a good question! Maybe if you slowly ramp up your numbers you can harden your plants up to handle those numbers. I have found my sweet spot to be around 1.1 EC, or 550 ppm on my brand of meter. Don't forget that some of those people running 1500 ppm and up may be using the other conversion factors, and be closer to 1.1 EC than it looks like.


wait... what?! ppm's vary from meter to meter? Oh wait, you meant conversion. Yeah, my friends and I use the same brand of bluelab meters, so we go by ppm. some of 'em get their ppm's pretty up there. I'm not sure what all that means because it seems to me that at 700-800 ppm for HB, he's still getting the same results as some of the other people I know who get up to 1450 ppm...


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## lunchbox421 (Jun 14, 2011)

Homebrewer I like your comparisons. A1 sauce on a steak is just blasphemous, a little salt is all you need


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## homebrewer (Jun 14, 2011)

jamesking said:


> How come some people are able to go as high as 1650-1800 for Sensi A/B or some other brand but with DynaBloom it burns?


 No one feeding at 1650-1800 on any scale is getting the _best_ results possible. I'm on the 442 scale or .7 conversion so my 'ppm' will be the highest number out of the 3 scales. People that feed that high simply do not know what they're doing. As I stated before, you can load up on nutes week after week and not see immediate damage, but it _will_ show eventually and absolutely affect the final yield.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 14, 2011)

jamesking said:


> How come some people are able to go as high as 1650-1800 for Sensi A/B or some other brand but with DynaBloom it burns?


There is alot to understand about nutes. You could literally get a degree in chemistry and horticulture, and still alot to learn. Believe it or not, the plants only use around 600 ppm max- or less. According to fatman, who really knew this subject- the rest of the nutrients are being used as buffers in the solution to make up for certain conditions and imbalances that develop by recirculating nutrient systems. This is why true aero with DTW, you only need to feed a max of 650 ppm ever. It is because none of it is being used up as buffers for a recirculating solution. I always chuckle when people brag about how much they're feeding their plants, they don't realize that it means something is fairly out of balance in their solution, and is an unhealthy, less efficient system where they are literally pouring money down the drain to have less desirable end product. The nute manufacturers don't bother telling us what really is going on, but create their formulas to be able to cope with the growing conditions that most people use. I am finding out fast that in aero, the nutes formulated for traditional hydro are pretty unbalnced in sheer terms of what the plant actually needs, because they have to make chemical remedies for the imbalances that develop in the mainstream systems, so alot of the ratios are tied up in that very way. Homebrewer knows his stuff, I'd say he pretty much is maxing out the potential of his style of growing, that's why he is able to get such good results with less ppms...  That is why more is not better...


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## jamesking (Jun 14, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> DO NOT use overdrive with DynaGro. That's like putting A1 steak sauce on a steak.
> 
> I feed at a particular ppm/EC level no matter what nutes I'm using. 1200ppm is 1200ppm, regardless of brand. Some just make better use of their formulas.


How does someone make better use of their formulas?


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## jamesking (Jun 14, 2011)

Trichy Bastard said:


> There is alot to understand about nutes. You could literally get a degree in chemistry and horticulture, and still alot to learn. Believe it or not, the plants only use around 600 ppm max- or less. According to fatman, who really knew this subject- the rest of the nutrients are being used as buffers in the solution to make up for certain conditions and imbalances that develop by recirculating nutrient systems. This is why true aero with DTW, you only need to feed a max of 650 ppm ever. It is because none of it is being used up as buffers for a recirculating solution. I always chuckle when people brag about how much they're feeding their plants, they don't realize that it means something is fairly out of balance in their solution, and is an unhealthy, less efficient system where they are literally pouring money down the drain to have less desirable end product. The nute manufacturers don't bother telling us what really is going on, but create their formulas to be able to cope with the growing conditions that most people use. I am finding out fast that in aero, the nutes formulated for traditional hydro are pretty unbalnced in sheer terms of what the plant actually needs, because they have to make chemical remedies for the imbalances that develop in the mainstream systems, so alot of the ratios are tied up in that very way. Homebrewer knows his stuff, I'd say he pretty much is maxing out the potential of his style of growing, that's why he is able to get such good results with less ppms...  That is why more is not better...


I read all of fatman's posts. the guy is a straight up scientist. Any idea how to contact him? I checked his website but it doesn't have a message link or anything...


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## homebrewer (Jun 14, 2011)

jamesking said:


> How does someone make better use of their formulas?


 Better ratios, more complete mineral content.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 14, 2011)

jamesking said:


> I read all of fatman's posts. the guy is a straight up scientist. Any idea how to contact him? I checked his website but it doesn't have a message link or anything...


I don't know Jamesking, He was banned from the forum here for being an ass. But he was smart- so I guess he was a real smartass?


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## sgmetal75 (Jun 14, 2011)

All I have ever used in my hydro set up is Dyna Grow and Bloom. I just started hydro a few years ago and I have always had pretty good results. I was thinking about trying something else until I read this thread. I think ill stick to Dyna cause its cheap and use the extra money to get bigger lights.

Thank you Uncle Rico for the great thread.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jun 14, 2011)

I would rather use less nutes anyway. @ like $50 a gallon that is.


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## jamesking (Jun 15, 2011)

sgmetal75 said:


> All I have ever used in my hydro set up is Dyna Grow and Bloom. I just started hydro a few years ago and I have always had pretty good results. I was thinking about trying something else until I read this thread. I think ill stick to Dyna cause its cheap and use the extra money to get bigger lights.
> 
> Thank you Uncle Rico for the great thread.


what ppm do you run your cycle at? and are you in rockwool as well?


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## jamesking (Jun 16, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Better ratios, more complete mineral content.


HB, I'm changing rez today so can you tell me if this is right? 

I'm going to shoot for a target PPM of 850. Tap water is 300. So I will add 550ppm of DynaBLOOM to the water making it the perfect 850. Now, I want to add additives. So do I follow directions for adding the additives (actually, more like half strength) and stop worrying about the PPM?


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## homebrewer (Jun 16, 2011)

jamesking said:


> HB, I'm changing rez today so can you tell me if this is right?
> 
> I'm going to shoot for a target PPM of 850. Tap water is 300. So I will add 550ppm of DynaBLOOM to the water making it the perfect 850. Now, I want to add additives. So do I follow directions for adding the additives (actually, more like half strength) and stop worrying about the PPM?


 At 300ppm (assuming .7 conversion), I'd look into RO. If you're shooting for 850, that is the TOTAL ppm, additives included.


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## sgmetal75 (Jun 16, 2011)

jamesking said:


> what ppm do you run your cycle at? and are you in rockwool as well?


I have no idea what my PPMs are to be honest. I use 1 tsp Dyna for 3 gallons water when they are little, and 1 tsp Dyna for 1 Gal Water when they get bigger. I used to work for Growtech so I have been using the Root Riot cubes to start my clippings. I am by no means a master grower, but I havent bought any smoke in a while.


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## MasterS (Jun 16, 2011)

The water from my patients tap comes out at 440ppm and I help them grow as cheaply as possible. They just use tap water, and they are healthy looking so far. I wish I could help them with R/O or a cheap alternative but not rich enough to be that giving >.< Arizona water here.

I think my first grow journal should be comparing R/O water with Arizona tap water at 440ppm to see the difference. I'm sure a few people here would benefit.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 16, 2011)

sgmetal75 said:


> All I have ever used in my hydro set up is Dyna Grow and Bloom. I just started hydro a few years ago and I have always had pretty good results. I was thinking about trying something else until I read this thread. I think ill stick to Dyna cause its cheap and use the extra money to get bigger lights.
> 
> Thank you Uncle Rico for the great thread.


To be honest- I was introduced to hydro by a dynagrow rep at the LA county fair when I was 15. He taught me how to build a flood n drain like homebrewer's and sent me home with a couple free jugs of dynagrow products and some rockwool. That guy really caused me to not learn alot about growing. Why? because my first grow came out so good, I got around alot of the initial problems most people have in their learning curve- I actually thought it was easy and it was goin great right outta the gate. Ever since I've been really interested in the science of it all. I went decades without actually growing, but continued to read all I could find on the subject. I have _some_ book smarts on hydro, but now I'm finally getting around to summore real world experience. And I can say at 15 with dynagrow I was easily more successful than in my 30's with Dutchmaster... Well- I also tried out a fogger that ended up being a bad road to go down, but at least I tried I guess... Dynagrow really gives anyone a green thumb in my experience though...


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## fallinprince (Jun 17, 2011)

TBH these plants are amazing. i havent updated my own posts yet but i recently ran my unit ALMOST dry. it literally only had enough water to keep the pump from burning out when i came back from vacation. i checked the ppm of my solution only 113ppm. i Set the unit to have a ppm of 600 2 weeks before i left for my vacation and had been topping off with simple r/o ph'd water until i left.

The plants overall didnt show any kinds of stress from the low ppm or water levels. Making me think the "recirculating" part of my setup actually allows for the nutrients to be taken at the plants need. the seriously small amount of nutrients left in my soup(after no added water for a week) really surprised me. Since then i reset my setup to have an overall ppm (sorry i dont have an EC meter nor do i know the conversion scale) of 800. I have yet to witness any negative symptoms from my raising the ppm dosage.


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## burrr (Jun 17, 2011)

These 3 have been running bloom and proteK at 1.0 ec

This is day 35 of flowering.


I started the next group of girls 15 days later, but gave them a week of 50/50 mix dynagro grow and bloom. This caused a noticeable delay in flowering, compared to the girls I gave a 90/10 bloom mix to.

These two groups of girls are now getting bloom only, and still about 1.0 ec. leaves are still plenty green.


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## fallinprince (Jun 17, 2011)

burrr said:


> These 3 have been running bloom and proteK at 1.0 ec
> This is day 35 of flowering.
> I started the next group of girls 15 days later, but gave them a week of 50/50 mix dynagro grow and bloom. This caused a noticeable delay in flowering, compared to the girls I gave a 90/10 bloom mix to.


I came back to this post today to post a question similar to this. I would like to see the difference between a grow+bloom mix vs Only bloom in flower


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## MasterS (Jun 18, 2011)

Ah so burrr you got to see a good example of too much nitrogen at flowering.

Homebrewer I have a question. Dutch Master Gold has a lower Phosphorus amount for this ratio. However, their nutrients are horrid when it comes to pH balance and require pH down (Phosphoric Acid) daily. Should I assume the rapid pH spikes are due to a lack of P that my plants are guzzling? I can assume either DM:Gold went cheap and want people to add loads of Phosphoric Acid so they don't have to worry about it, or they have no idea what they are doing  haha


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 18, 2011)

MasterS said:


> Ah so burrr you got to see a good example of too much nitrogen at flowering.
> 
> Homebrewer I have a question. Dutch Master Gold has a lower Phosphorus amount for this ratio. However, their nutrients are horrid when it comes to pH balance and require pH down (Phosphoric Acid) daily. Should I assume the rapid pH spikes are due to a lack of P that my plants are guzzling? I can assume either DM:Gold went cheap and want people to add loads of Phosphoric Acid so they don't have to worry about it, or they have no idea what they are doing  haha


I agree on the DM gold needing ph down daily. Adding a silica additive helped buffer it quite a bit and stabilized it though for me- try the dynagrow protekt...


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## MasterS (Jun 18, 2011)

I'll move to all Dyna-Gro. Cheapo me wanted to use it up also it just for a small personal grow in this op.


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## eaveononrails (Jun 20, 2011)

blahhh im so sad now ;x

i should have looked into it more 


i just went out last week and bought the full GH line in 1gals ;x I wish i woulda known about dyna-gro 

For some reason I cant PM you homebrewer and I read through your whole GW root microbes post and you didnt spill the info  if you could shoot me your findings that would be great (as i just bought a 4oz bottle of this as well


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## panhead (Jun 20, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> In addition, Im also not crazy about the 1-1-2 NPK ratio offered by Connoisseur. Ive had the best results emulating a 1-3-2 ratio during flower but according to fat mike at AN, thats too much phosphorus (according to tissue samples).


I was confused with AN's NPK ratios as well when i was table testing different manufacturers products,it makes absolutely no sense to me,so much so that i passed on the product line.

I just figured the goofy ratio was just more AN hype sales pitch nonsense so they can say everybody else has it wrong.

Ive been absent for the last 2 yrs or so & i missed out on the Dyna Grow vs General Hydroponics comparison grow so ive got some reading to do.

Anyhow thank you for taking the time & spending your cash as well as doccumenting the grow off,it will have my full attention.


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## burrr (Jun 20, 2011)

I was checking out the dynagro feeding schedules, and find that I'm happy running the "non'recirculating" dosage. I also saw that the recommended PH for hydro was 6.5. Thats pretty weird huh. I'm still running at 5.8


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## MasterS (Jun 20, 2011)

I'm afraid to click on a troll link. Why would someone think the 0 looks like an o?

Not to mention homebrewer has more than 1 post haha


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 20, 2011)

That's some messed up stuff, hope the idiot gets kicked in the nuts for impersonating him...

edit: I couldn't resist and clicked on it... gees man, wow... looks like the brother of the guy from "1 man 1 jar"....


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## MasterS (Jun 20, 2011)

lol I did after assuming my virus scanner would protect me but it didn't shield my vision.


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## jamesking (Jun 20, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> At 300ppm (assuming .7 conversion), I'd look into RO. If you're shooting for 850, that is the TOTAL ppm, additives included.


HB, can you post a couple of pictures so i can have a comparison? I would like to see how my girls look compared to yours on the same day. Thanks!


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## burrr (Jun 20, 2011)

jamesking said:


> HB, can you post a couple of pictures so i can have a comparison? I would like to see how my girls look compared to yours on the same day. Thanks!


You can see pics of the dynagro plants on his links to his previous journals


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 20, 2011)

burrr said:


> You can see pics of the dynagro plants on his links to his previous journals


Yeah but burr- he wants to compare in real time I think


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## burrr (Jun 20, 2011)

I'm jonesing for an update from HB too. 
This was posted elsewhere on RIU, but it fits right in with HB's style of growing. It's feeding guidelines from a seed vendor. http://www.mandalaseeds.com/Guides/Fertilizing-Smart-Guide#EC Meter


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## Jahbomb (Jun 20, 2011)

Hello homebrewer, 

Ive been a long-time lurker here but this is my first foray into a discussion on this site. 

Ive been growing for a couple of years after not growing for over a decade. Ive been using GH with some pretty good success, especially recently now that Ive got my new favorite strain dialed in (ChemDog 4). Im pulling over 100g a plant now, under two 600w, CO2, A/C in a DIY 14-pot ebb-and-grow system with 4 gal pots. But Ive been looking for a better nutrient system. Ive been running the flora series with kool bloom and a little bloombastic, targeting a 100-100-200-70 elemental PPM with the base nutrients per Mel Frank and the Cannastats guys (http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm). Have you ever used the excel spreadsheet on this site? A bit easier to use than HydroBuddy. 

Anyway, I know you're a fan of DynaGro, and I had been looking into this anyway when I stumbled upon your threads. Very informative, I now am definitely going to go with the DynaGro bloom, protect, and Mag-pro. Im also a convert to the 2:1 P/K ratio for fertilizers (which is the case with DynaGrow bloom), which results in a 1:1 ratio at the elemental level. I plugged the DynaGro-recommended nutrient dosages into the Cannastats spreadsheet and found it has a similar N profile as what I currently run, (but double the P and a lot more micros) so I dont think I will need the grow formula to supplement the N like you do early on, but we'll see. The overall EC is similar to what I currently run, so hopefully I dont run into any issues with DynaGro being "hot", although I will start a little low and ramp up to full strenth. Im also not going to use any of the kool bloom or bloombastic anymore... no need and is potentially detrimental. I do like the kelp in the bloombastic, so maybe I'll just use that GH floralicious or something instead.

Im gearing up for my next run... 10 Chem4, 1 Blueberry Headband, 1 SFV OG, 1 Sour Diesel, and 1 White Widow. They currently are in 4-inch rockwool cubes, which I am going to put into the 8-inch grodan Big Mommas, and then into my 4-gallon flood buckets. Dyna-grow all the way on this run! I will start a grow journal for this one.


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## homebrewer (Jun 21, 2011)

My apologies for the late update, well just blame it on work. The pics below however were taken on their normal day which puts them at day 43 in the pics. One thing Im noticing about Connoisseur that I really dont like is that it tends to burn at lower feeding levels. I already feed low (1.2 EC) and at those levels, its easy to grow healthy plants with DynaGro and GH. Connoisseur at those same levels (and lower) is causing some eagle clawing of some leaves and some tip burn. Overall plant health is fine but I do not like unhealthy leaves. I wish I had an exact answer as to why this is happening but my overall impression is that this is not a fertilizer that my plants like. I dont know if it has to do with the quality of the mineral salts or their chelation or whatever it may be. Well see how things unfold as the weeks progress. 

*Leaching of the salts:* Every 3 weeks I run plain tap water through my system in effort to remove excess salt buildup from the medium. The system runs for a minimum of an hour and I make sure to pour fresh water through each rockwool cube multiple times. Keeping rockwool (or any medium) free of excessive salt buildup is important to maintaining healthy plants. 

After I leach salts, I take a TDS reading of the runoff water to see how much salt accrued in the medium. GH tends to be pretty salty. TDS readings were usually 200ppm higher in the GH reservoirs (compared to DynaGro) though when done frequently enough, doesnt present an issue to plant health. Surprisingly, the TDS of Connoisseurs runoff water was almost identical to that of DynaGros. Given the look of some of the leaves, I'd have assumed the medium had excessive salt buildup but that's not the case here. 

Ill do my best to get the update up on time this week, here are the ladies: 

*Connoisseur day 43*






*DynaGro day 43*




*Connoisseur day 43:*






*DynaGro day 43*


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## homebrewer (Jun 21, 2011)

MasterS said:


> Ah so burrr you got to see a good example of too much nitrogen at flowering.
> 
> Homebrewer I have a question. Dutch Master Gold has a lower Phosphorus amount for this ratio. However, their nutrients are horrid when it comes to pH balance and require pH down (Phosphoric Acid) daily. Should I assume the rapid pH spikes are due to a lack of P that my plants are guzzling? I can assume either DM:Gold went cheap and want people to add loads of Phosphoric Acid so they don't have to worry about it, or they have no idea what they are doing  haha


 GH&#8217;s pH stability (1-2-2 ratio as I was mixing it) was similar to that of what you describe above but that was largely due to the higher bicarbonate levels in my tap water. When used with RO water, it was more manageable. DG was great regardless of water source. 

Connoisseur&#8217;s pH stability isn&#8217;t bad in RO with its 1-1-2 but it does need a few adjustments per week.


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## MasterS (Jun 21, 2011)

Great mention of salt build up. I have always been ignorant of using giant rockwool cubes because old experiences left me with rotten stems and root rot. (I was a novice so I'm sure I would have seen them in any medium I used at the rate my group was going ^_^) I have always had success with hydroton and with a simple DIY recirculating system can clean it very easy which is the main complaint most people have about them. What reasons do you use rockwool cubes over a pot of hydroton? I have never leeched salts from my medium except the cleaning that gets done between uses, do you think that I'd benefit from a salt leech and if so, how much does it benefit your plants? Leech vs non-leech grow? haha


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## homebrewer (Jun 21, 2011)

MasterS said:


> Great mention of salt build up. I have always been ignorant of using giant rockwool cubes because old experiences left me with rotten stems and root rot. (I was a novice so I'm sure I would have seen them in any medium I used at the rate my group was going ^_^) I have always had success with hydroton and with a simple DIY recirculating system can clean it very easy which is the main complaint most people have about them. What reasons do you use rockwool cubes over a pot of hydroton? I have never leeched salts from my medium except the cleaning that gets done between uses, do you think that I'd benefit from a salt leech and if so, how much does it benefit your plants? Leech vs non-leech grow? haha


 I use rockwool only because it was how I started. I bought the single site water farm system and if it didn't come with rockwool, I picked some up and started a plant in it. Hydroton's tendency for salt buildup has to be much lower than rockwools' but unless you're seeing some unhealthy plants at harvest for no good reason, I'd say you're ok to not to leach salts from your roots. I would probably leach anyways because it's an easy insurance step.

The result of leaching salts is a cleaner medium for the roots to be in. I can't flood 3 times a day with 1.2 EC water and expect my medium to remain pristine for 60-80 days (flowering periods for my various strains).


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## MasterS (Jun 21, 2011)

Thank you, I'll do my own leech vs non-leech but not sure if I can keep up a journal like you. Personal life and careers take up too much time as is.


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## burrr (Jun 21, 2011)

from the pics, it looks like the connoisuer plants have green buds instead of white. just oozing with excess nitrogen.


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## EmptyWords (Jun 21, 2011)

That dynagro seems to be working well I am glad I picked some up. Sensi made my plants look the same as your connoisseur results so far.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jun 22, 2011)

Quick question man. Do you think I should flush my dyna-gro, grow? I'm chopping in 2-3 weeks.


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## homebrewer (Jun 22, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Quick question man. Do you think I should flush my dyna-gro, grow? I'm chopping in 2-3 weeks.


 I would never flush any grow. Your plants have nutritional needs during the last weeks of their life and by 'feeding' with plain water only, you're depriving the plant of those essential minerals. Those minerals you want to cut are called 'essential' for a reason . During the last few weeks, I feed at about 1.0EC which is about a 20% reduction in feeding levels. I don't do this because I'm close to harvest, I do this because the plants aren't taking in food like they were during the first 2/3rds of flower.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jun 22, 2011)

Ok, I wasn't planning on flushing. Just wondered if you did.


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## coonword (Jun 22, 2011)

homebrewer i never knew u didnt flush at harvest, again i learned something new...just want to say the bud to leaf ratio is amazing!


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jun 22, 2011)

Yeah, it looks a lot like my Chronic. Which I know Chronic has some AK-47 grown into it. It's like the buds just keep getting bigger, and bigger. Really cool man.


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## homebrewer (Jun 22, 2011)

coonword said:


> homebrewer i never knew u didnt flush at harvest, again i learned something new...just want to say the bud to leaf ratio is amazing!


 Flushing to me makes zero sense. I don't flush my garden veggies and it's impossible to 'flush' _anything_ grown outdoors. Why flush cannabis? Uncle Ben used to say flushing was invented by the Dutch to atone for the sins of over-feeding. I tend to agree with that. Just give your plants what they need at all times and keep in mind they have needs at all times .

Speaking of the bud to leaf ratio, Serious Seeds has done a great job at breeding that desirable trait into their strains. Serious Seeds Chronic below from seed, day 37 in the dirt, DynaGro of course. This will probably be my keeper pheno, looks like an easy chop:


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jun 22, 2011)

Yes. The other thing I've noticed about Serious Seeds is that they have such Great Stability in all of their lines. Very consistent phenos plant, to plant.


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## burrr (Jun 22, 2011)

I dropped my EC down a little more on my last res change. I'm at .8 EC, using RO water and per gallon: 5ml protek, 6ml bloom, 2ml magpro. My ppm went from 388 to 400 in 24 hours, but my girls drank huge amounts of water. 50% more water usage than most days. I believe my girls like a light diet of nutes. My fan leaves are showing no deficiencies, and the bud leaves still have a little curl on a few of them. I bet I could go through bloom at 420ppm, and grow happy girls.


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## homebrewer (Jun 22, 2011)

burrr said:


> I dropped my EC down a little more on my last res change. I'm at .8 EC, using RO water and per gallon: 5ml protek, 6ml bloom, 2ml magpro. My ppm went from 388 to 400 in 24 hours, but my girls drank huge amounts of water. 50% more water usage than most days. I believe my girls like a light diet of nutes. My fan leaves are showing no deficiencies, and the bud leaves still have a little curl on a few of them. I bet I could go through bloom at 420ppm, and grow happy girls.


 This is exactly what it takes to grow healthy plants. You're observing your plants and making small tweaks based on their needs. You're also letting them do what they do, which is grow at their own pace and develop into what their genetic code allows. +rep to you.

Edit: looks like I need to spread some rep before hitting you back


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## Vindicated (Jun 22, 2011)

Hey Homebrewer can you repost a side by side pic of a Dnya-Grow plant next to an AN feed plant?


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## homebrewer (Jun 22, 2011)

Vindicated said:


> Hey Homebrewer can you repost a side by side pic of a Dnya-Grow plant next to an AN feed plant?


 I grow groups of plants in hydro and single plants in the dirt. AN is only being used in hydro. I can't do side-by-side without moving a flood table across a room, which isn't going to happen.


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## homebrewer (Jun 25, 2011)

The pics were taken yesterday which puts these ugly ladies at day 51. As I mentioned in the previous update, Im not pleased with the yellowing of the upper canopy and the leaf curl. I do not encounter this with DynaGro at this EC and Ive taken steps to correct these issues the day they started to appear. I lowered the amount of booster (koolbloom 0-10-10) from around 15% of total ppm to 10%. I even switched the booster to Hydroplex (0-10-6) thinking maybe these girls are getting too much potassium. I even lowered the EC to just over 1.0. The only reason I was using koolbloom to begin with is to emulate a similar booster offered by Advanced nutrients. 

The buds however smell like Id expect them to smell and the yield is better than it looks. This strain/pheno tends to grow buds too heavy for the stems to support which is why theyll just lay on the trellis netting instead of remaining upright. 

I do want to note the difference in yield and the health of the plants (visually) between the two nutrient brands. Connoisseur is requiring more work on a daily and weekly basis to seemingly maintain plants that arent visually as healthy and dont appear to be yielding nearly as well as the lower maintenance DynaGro brand.

We have about 2 weeks left here and Im doing my best to do Connoisseur justice. I want healthy plants, I want big yields, I need a high quality end product. I know it may not appear this way but Im doing everything I can do to ensure all of the above given what I have to work with. 

Here are the ladies:






*DynaGro day 50:*



*Connoisseur day 51:*


*
DynaGro day 50:*


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## rosecitypapa (Jun 25, 2011)

Homebrewer, at the EC that you are running, why do you have leaf tip burn?


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## MasterS (Jun 25, 2011)

Homebrewer, you use a 600W light right? In the picture it looks so far from the plants, do you just move it for the picture or do they look that awesome with the light at that distance? How long do you veg for? Right now I'm at (5L Water in the res/Plant) what do you use? I do a res change every 2 weeks and have steady ppm but since still trying to use up the Dutch Master Gold have to adjust the pH daily.


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## homebrewer (Jun 25, 2011)

rosecitypapa said:


> Homebrewer, at the EC that you are running, why do you have leaf tip burn?


 With the 1-1-2 NPK ratio, the tip burn could be from too much nitrogen at the later stages of flowering. At this ratio, more of my total ppm is made up of N than I've ever run before this late in flower. Even with the GH 3 part, I would cut back the micro (5-0-1) because the plants simply don't need all that nitrogen. The plants aren't producing leaves or stems like they are in the first 3-4 weeks but Connoisseur's formula continues to hammer home poor ratios. 



MasterS said:


> Homebrewer, you use a 600W light right? In the picture it looks so far from the plants, do you just move it for the picture or do they look that awesome with the light at that distance? How long do you veg for? Right now I'm at (5L Water in the res/Plant) what do you use? I do a res change every 2 weeks and have steady ppm but since still trying to use up the Dutch Master Gold have to adjust the pH daily.


The 600watt light stays roughly that distance from start to finish, it's never been moved for a picture. 

I veg until the plants are a certain height, I like about 15 inches. 

My res in veg is 12 gallons and about 15-18 in flower. I change both once per week. pH is something I almost never even look at anymore. If I go half a week then decide to check it, I usually shake my head and say to myself 'friggen DynaGro man' just as an expression of how my pH is ALWYAS stable with this stuff. It never ceases to amaze me. Connoisseurs' stability isn't bad but it does need adjusted a few times per week.


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## burrr (Jun 25, 2011)

Here is a little update on my low EC dynagrow project. Day 43 on the left 3 and day 25 on the right. Using protek, dynagrow bloom, and magpro. I've also ran some dutchmaster ZONE the whole time to ward of the dwc rot. 
I'll add thumbs of the growth up till here.


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## burrr (Jun 25, 2011)

These are 15 days behind in the flower cycle, but got to veg an extra 2 weeks instead. they are pretty tall, but done stretching.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 25, 2011)

HB- it's interesting to watch you navigate through your own self created dilemma. You set a good example of how to read your plants and attempt trouble shooting them. If anyone has a good shot at a final outcome with those conoisseur plants- it's you. Fingers are crossed for ya...


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jun 25, 2011)

He does seem like a level headed dude.


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## coonword (Jun 26, 2011)

Wish u had more current threads about different subjects your threads are very informational and well kept!


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## homebrewer (Jun 26, 2011)

coonword said:


> Wish u had more current threads about different subjects your threads are very informational and well kept!


Thanks! I used to participate more around the forum but arguing with kids with seemingly no experience, journals or pics of their plants got old real quick.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 26, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Thanks! I used to participate more around the forum but arguing with kids with seemingly no experience, journals or pics of their plants got old real quick.


And there's always Ocalli...  HB- I will be using dynagrow in the new HPA system I'm building right now. It will deliver sub second 50 micron blasts every few mintues or so at 100 psi. I know it's kinda overkill, but the reason I got back into this was so I could play around with new technologies. The outline of the system is in my sig line (I undertand if it's not your interest). But I'll let you know if Dynagrow also proves to work in the HPA arena as good as it does here... -I don't see why not...

Also, wanted to post this about ammoniacal nitrogen, plant stretch and phosphorous because I've been told Dynagrow is mainly for soil due to the nitrogen it uses- but this paper seems to explain it is misinformation: 
http://www.onhort.com/What-Really-Causes-Stretch-article2891 .
Anyway- the proof is in the pudding...


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## maphisto (Jun 27, 2011)

agreed with HB to many kids screwing up so good info.


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## medicine21 (Jun 27, 2011)

Came across this nute comparison thread which includes DynaGro.

Some results:


> The following is a list off production numbers and cost per gram. It does not dictate which I found best :
> 
> Test 1 EarthJuice 0.75 gpw
> Test 2 Marine based 0.67 gpw
> ...


and review/observations for DynaGro:



> Test 6 - Dyna Gro = Grow (7-9-5) - Bloom (3-12-6) - Protekt (0-0-3)
> 
> This is a simple and effective chemical fertilizer. The manufacturer specializes in multi-cycle indoor flowers, things like violets and orchids. Measuring the ppm of this solution needed only minimal work considering the ingredients are strictly elemental salts. The company basically recommends a 1/2 tsp every watering of either Grow or Bloom. I ultimately decided that was the best application also with minor increases later if 12/12. As with most chemical fertilizers, nutrients are extremely available for plant absorption and fast acting. It's advisable to add a mid flowering (water only) flush mid cycle. This cleans the medium of any salt build up which will occur using these nutes. As with Test 4 I approached this test with no microbiology in mind. I lowered average PH to 5.8 + and treated the medium as more of a " hydro " environment.
> 
> ...


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## homebrewer (Jun 27, 2011)

medicine21 said:


> Came across this nute comparison thread which includes DynaGro.
> 
> Some results:
> 
> ...


 I guess we'll take him at his word since he 'tested' eight different nutrient brands yet failed to post even one picture??? I'm also wondering why his gpw measurements are so low, new grower maybe?

EDIT: One thing I also noticed is that he was running 12 plants per 1000 watt light, 8 lights so I'm assuming a different nute line under each light. His DynaGro average is under 2 ounces per plant and I easily exceed that with 9 plants under 600 watters. So again, newer grower?


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 27, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I guess we'll take him at his word since he 'tested' eight different nutrient brands yet failed to post even one picture??? I'm also wondering why his gpw measurements are so low, new grower maybe?
> 
> EDIT: One thing I also noticed is that he was running 12 plants per 1000 watt light, 8 lights so I'm assuming a different nute line under each light. His DynaGro average is under 2 ounces per plant and I easily exceed that with 9 plants under 600 watters. So again, newer grower?


Yes, there is no proof that his conditions were scientific at all. I would just write off the author's opinion compared to yours. We know more about your growing conditions, and specific "control" measures. We have pics and writeups on your final result. There is so much to methodical scientific testing, and I'd tend to think most people writing about nute growing comparisons are not even close to properly equipped to have the controlled environment with absolutely no other variables involved. And without that- their tests are basically worthless... All that matters is that you are happy with your results, and I'd think you are... All that said, it is possible to become emotionally involved and only see the results you want to- but in this case- we must all be duped?


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## 420bushman (Jun 27, 2011)

New to the forum and very glad I came upon the posts by Homebrewer. A little off topic but could anyone recommend a feeding schedule with Dyna-Grow? I use pro-mix and rain water. Need to know how much to feed and how often to feed it. I tried the 1/4 to 1/2 tsp/gallon with every watering and it seems a bit too much. I also use pro-tekt at 1/2 tsp per gallon.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 27, 2011)

420bushman said:


> New to the forum and very glad I came upon the posts by Homebrewer. A little off topic but could anyone recommend a feeding schedule with Dyna-Grow? I use pro-mix and rain water. Need to know how much to feed and how often to feed it. I tried the 1/4 to 1/2 tsp/gallon with every watering and it seems a bit too much. I also use pro-tekt at 1/2 tsp per gallon.


It's here, (multiple times I think). Look back a few pages, and enjoy the thread- it's a good read and you'll learn alot...


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## homebrewer (Jun 27, 2011)

Trichy Bastard said:


> ... All that said, it is possible to become emotionally involved and only see the results you want to- but in this case- we must all be duped?


 My goal in this test or any that I run is to be honest with myself and to just post the facts as I encounter them. I _was_ a GH 3-part fanboy, tested DG against it 10 months ago and now I exclusively use DynaGro. So I'd like to think that I'm pretty open to results whether they're positive or negative. 

On a whole though, I'm always skeptical of posters who make claims and don't post pictures. Maybe a grower swears by molasses or whatever, ok, post some pics, lets see what you think it does. When they do post pics, you gotta ask yourself, are those plants extraordinary? Have I achieved the same 'results' with appropriate feeding levels and a healthy environment? Those two things go a lot further than 90% of the growers out there realize.



> *New to the forum and very glad I came upon the posts by Homebrewer. A little off topic but could anyone recommend a feeding schedule with Dyna-Grow? I use pro-mix and rain water. Need to know how much to feed and how often to feed it. I tried the 1/4 to 1/2 tsp/gallon with every watering and it seems a bit too much. I also use pro-tekt at 1/2 tsp per gallon.*


Feed, feed, water OR feed, water, feed, water. I like about 3mls of base nutes per gallon. Maybe 1ml of grow and 2 of bloom. Protekt is a nice additive if you're using rain or RO as it will not only balance the pH but it will benefit your plants.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 28, 2011)

I played with the cannastats nute calculator http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/download.htm (it's pretty nice- especially for mixing different bottles and getting the final results). Punched in your bloom formula Homebrewer: 
(ml/gal)
Grow 2.5
Bloom 7.5
ProTekt 5
MagPro 1.5
Got a theoretical ppm of 1213 on the .7 scale and here was the breakdown individualized element tds:
NO3: 78, NH4: 37, P: 156, K:180, Mg: 21, S: 8, Ca: 53, Fe: 2.64, B: .528, Mn: 1.32, Zn: 1.32, Mo:.024, Na: 2.64, Cu: 1.32, Cl: 2.64, Co: .04, Si: 103, (Calc doesnt have a spot for nickel).
Dynagrow is definitely different as compared to GH (which has lot less P, and less micros). I read here that P is likely the main nutrient contributor to plant stretch: http://www.onhort.com/What-Really-Causes-Stretch-article2891
So I wonder if Dynagrow gets the plants to grow fast, then buds fill in good during the flowering stages with their mix of micros... Just a thought as to what their strategy is and why it works...


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## coonword (Jun 28, 2011)

would u guys say that calculator is accurate?!? if so ill def check it out..


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## homebrewer (Jun 28, 2011)

Your plants aren't taking in everything you feed them as there is always ppm left in the res at res change time. But I think as long as you feed modestly and have an idea of what the plants need at the different stages of flowering, your plants will pick and choose what they consume and do so when they need to. Connoisseur doesn't allow any 'tweaking' of the part A and B as they both contain minerals plants need and are 'designed' to be used in equal parts. At this stage, I wish I could supply less nitrogen while keeping the secondary macro and micro nutes stable, which is exactly what I'm able to do with DynaGro. I believe the mineral makeup of my res is more desirable when I'm using DG and the plants respond with bigger yields and better overall health. 

Chronic update from seed in the dirt, day 43 I think, DynaGro base nutes _only.._..


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 28, 2011)

coonword said:


> would u guys say that calculator is accurate?!? if so ill def check it out..


It was recommended to me by someone I consider a reliable source (Atomizer). I'm newer at this, so I cannot have a good opinion myself. 
Wow, sweet pic... You just can't argue with that...


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## bmx42 (Jun 29, 2011)

Awesome grow Homebrewer. I'm new here and found your grow and love what i see. I've seen dyna-gro products in my local hydro shop put always walked on by because I never heard of them so just figured it must not be worth it. But I think I'll try this stuff out on my newest grow once my seedlings need nutes. Now I'm off to post a intro.

peace.


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## homebrewer (Jun 29, 2011)

bmx42 said:


> Awesome grow Homebrewer. I'm new here and found your grow and love what i see. I've seen dyna-gro products in my local hydro shop put always walked on by because I never heard of them so just figured it must not be worth it. But I think I'll try this stuff out on my newest grow once my seedlings need nutes. Now I'm off to post a intro.
> 
> peace.


I'd never heard of them until Uncle Ben posted something about them about a year ago. I wanted to prove him wrong so I started a journal comparing the no-name DynaGro to GH. Boy was I wrong and things have been hassle free since I made the switch. Hit me up if you want some help as DG is pretty strong and will fry plants if not used correctly.


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## drekoushranada (Jun 29, 2011)

How would one do a foliar feed with the Grow nutes when using Dyna-Gro?


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## homebrewer (Jun 29, 2011)

drekoushranada said:


> How would one do a foliar feed with the Grow nutes when using Dyna-Gro?


 I've been at this for almost 11 years and I've never foliar fed, not even once.


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## dsmoke1 (Jun 29, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I've been at this for almost 11 years and I've never foliar fed, not even once.


I was wondering if I was the only one who had perfectly healthy plants without spraying crap on the outside of them. It seems like every so often, someone in the hydro shops around here is raving about some late-flower foliar product. Are you kidding me?


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## reverof (Jun 30, 2011)

Homebrewer... Just a couple quick questions if you dont mind...
btw love your journals!

1. You avg 21-23oz from 6 plants?
2. You start and finish all plants in 6" rockwhool?

Appreciate the answers and look forward to seeing this comparison end and seeing results!


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## homebrewer (Jun 30, 2011)

reverof said:


> Homebrewer... Just a couple quick questions if you dont mind...
> btw love your journals!
> 
> 1. You avg 21-23oz from 6 plants?
> ...


 I've been averaging just over 20 ounces with AK47 and DynaGro in the exact same setup that is featured in this journal. I'd average the same with my dumpster strain too if the colas didn't have to be harvested early due to mold concerns. 

The plants are from a mother, cloned of course and started in dirt. Once I see roots, I knock off the dirt and put them in 6 inch rockwool cubes.


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## shnkrmn (Jun 30, 2011)

LOL. I picked up on Dyna-gro from Uncle Ben too. I didn't want to disprove him; I was just desperate for success. It worked. 



homebrewer said:


> I'd never heard of them until Uncle Ben posted something about them about a year ago. I wanted to prove him wrong so I started a journal comparing the no-name DynaGro to GH. Boy was I wrong and things have been hassle free since I made the switch. Hit me up if you want some help as DG is pretty strong and will fry plants if not used correctly.


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## bmx42 (Jun 30, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I'd never heard of them until Uncle Ben posted something about them about a year ago. I wanted to prove him wrong so I started a journal comparing the no-name DynaGro to GH. Boy was I wrong and things have been hassle free since I made the switch. Hit me up if you want some help as DG is pretty strong and will fry plants if not used correctly.


ya i'm planning on starting my seedlings in soil then once they have a good root system I'm gonna put them in hempy buckets. So if you have any feeding ideas for using Dyna-Gro products I'm all ears. I've mostly grown in promix and last grow I did, I tried coco coir as a medium and liked the extra control you get with hydro so i wanted to try a active hydro system(ie flood and drain, aeroponic, etc.) this time around but don't feel 100% comfortable to go all out in hydro, so i thought i'd try passive hydro like hempy's and maybe next grow I'll give a active hydro system a try.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 1, 2011)

Homebrewer- I have a question for you. I have been avidly researching the best mixture for my situation. I will be doing drain to waste so my needs will be somewhat different in that I don't need to worry about any ph buffering (some of the high levels of phosphorous, potassium etc. in the dynagrow formula are tied up specifically to do this for recirculating systems, and as such is apparently why the ph is so stable for you if I understand things correctly). I found some tissue samples for cannabis that would implicate the exact ratios of the typical plant needs: http://www.greenpassion.org/photoplog/images/4514/large/1_100_3701.jpghttp
It seems that the dynagrow formulations provide about 4-5x less than the ideal amount of calcium for cannabis, so do you ever expereince anything like a hint of a ca deficiency? Also- in retrospect, the foliagepro is the perfect single bottle for veg- you might want to try it sometime with nothing else added and see how it goes (although the rock solid ph may be lost)... This is all theoretical- and what your pics all show is obviously nothing but good, but I suppose even a good regimen could have room for improvement if I'm interpreting the data correctly...
The plan i have so far for a flowering target ppm of 200 is as follows (might have to raise ec- but this is the ratio I had in mind):
ml/gal
Bloom 1.4
magpro 1
protekt 1.2
Foliage pro 1.4
Thanks- your input is greatly appreciated... My disclaimer on this particular post is that I am just trying to learn all this stuff, and nothing I've mentioned here is based on my own real world experience- and therefore should not be taken as advice, but only an idea...


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## MasterS (Jul 1, 2011)

Trichy Bastard, most nutes aren't formulated with R/O in mind because it isn't cost effective to grow most things in R/O. They have a Cal/Mag to supplement for either R/O or a water source that is lacking.

Also, wasn't able to open the link. Even after correcting the url. Repost please ^_^


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 1, 2011)

Sorry, here is the link without the http://www, just copy n' paste and add it back I guess... growersunderground.com/PhosphorusMyth.pdf


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## homebrewer (Jul 1, 2011)

Trichy Bastard said:


> It seems that the dynagrow formulations provide about 4-5x less than the ideal amount of calcium for cannabis, so do you ever expereince anything like a hint of a ca deficiency?


I would think one would see more than just a hint of a deficiency if they were actually supplying only 20% of the plant's calcium needs. I use RO water and don't see any need to add more calcium than what is in the base nutes already. 




> Also- in retrospect, the foliagepro is the perfect single bottle for veg- you might want to try it sometime with nothing else added and see how it goes (although the rock solid ph may be lost)...


I've tweaked some veg formulas with GH supplying higher N and low-to-no P for veg and I grew plants that looked exactly the same as usual. Vegging is cake and I don't feel like anyone needs to over-think that stage of growth further than their light spectrum and temps. As far as food goes, I just feed a few mls of grow and protekt per gallon, done. 




> The plan i have so far for a flowering target ppm of 200 is as follows (might have to raise ec- but this is the ratio I had in mind):
> ml/gal
> Bloom 1.4
> magpro 1
> ...


Could be a good mix but even with RO, I don't mess with magpro in veg. I think you can 'up' your protekt to 4mls/gallon.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 1, 2011)

Yeah MasterS- my tapwater is softened, so I have to use the r/o water to make sure the sodium from the softener are removed... And to be honest, the water here is from a surface source and not very high in minerals to begin with... Also- the fascinating part about high pressue aero is that I'll apparently need to start feeding with 140 ppm or so- and flowering stage doesn't call for magnitudes higher. That would be all taken up by the tapwater minerals in most people's cases. In my situation, the cost per gallon to make the ro water may actually outweigh the cost of the nutes added -lol...

Homebrewer- thanks for your reply. Being that you are also using ro with such fine results- I'd have to admit that your statement is about not having a ca deficiency is obviously right on. Apparently there is alot more to the nute puzzle to be understood. Unfortunately there is so much misinfo out there- it's quite hard to pick the truths out, and that's why I think your threads here have so much value in showing good results from your real life "no bull" parameters... In the past I simply fed the 7-9-5 (tapwater back then) even without protekt for veg and had fine resuits- vegging is a no brainer as long as your not trying to use 5 different bottles of additives @3000 ppm coupled with dodgy formulas that have unstable ph...  

There are still so many mysteries to me in regards of the proper nute ratios to provide, especially when all of these big companies information does not even match real life performance. I guess the only good way to go about this is just like you- and do my own tests, luckily I have the foundation of your regimen as a starting ground... And this probably is just as complicated as I want to make it. The companies don't give the plants any credit for being able to self regulate to any degree- but that is obviously not true when you look at all the huge variations in formulas out there that all accomplish the same thing (with varying levels of effort's required on the growers part -that seems to be the real difference).


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## irishboy (Jul 2, 2011)

has anyone ever had a problem with the silica delaying flowering?


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 2, 2011)

irishboy said:


> has anyone ever had a problem with the silica delaying flowering?


Theoretically it shouldn't- but it's fair to note it does contain some P -it could add up if you are already mega dosing... I'm not the most qualified person to answer though...


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## MasterS (Jul 2, 2011)

Interesting pdf Trichy but I'm not good enough in plant biology to properly interpret the data. The tissue sample shows the plant analyzed has a composition of 4-1-4.5 but I don't know what that implicates. I would love many more analyses to compare and knowledge to interpret that but if I tried to grow a plant at 4-1-4.5 it might get a little angry. ^_^


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 2, 2011)

MasterS said:


> Interesting pdf Trichy but I'm not good enough in plant biology to properly interpret the data. The tissue sample shows the plant analyzed has a composition of 4-1-4.5 but I don't know what that implicates. I would love many more analyses to compare and knowledge to interpret that but if I tried to grow a plant at 4-1-4.5 it might get a little angry. ^_^


Yeah, not too sure man... Once you forgive fatman for his self proclaimed dyslexia and emotional disorders, he did have some knwoledge for sure. He based his plant formulas off tissue analysis, and I'd think he did pretty good. Most people who followed his advice thanked him greatly in the end for the positive effects it had when followed. It's funny though that he was sort of Uncle Ben's arch enemy- and the reason HB tried Dynagrow is apparently based on Ben's work... So I really am just as confused as before-lol. There is always a big circle leading to confusion on the subject for me. All I can imagine is that there are more forces at play, and each person's individual setup including ambient temps, lighting, wind and average humidity, and whether recirculating or DTW probably facilitate the need for different ratios of nutrients...


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## mr.smileyface (Jul 2, 2011)

irishboy said:


> has anyone ever had a problem with the silica delaying flowering?


An experianced grower told me it was bad for the roots. I dont believe that as i had an increase in yeild. And i use soilless so its more available to the plants and which is why you are sappose to use less. In hydro your using double the amount i am using. It is very akailine so i dont need ph up when i had a half cup to 55 gal.
The only problem i could see is using to much of it. I cut it out near the end because i stress my plants the last week. The last week i turn my thermostat down to 20c so i have increase airflow 24/7 to bring out more color.


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## Natalie Ghost (Jul 2, 2011)

HomeBrewer,

What's the ml of each product you use per gallon of R/O water from the DG line?
Also wanted to asked you if using Great White makes a different on your final yield.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 2, 2011)

mr.smileyface said:


> An experianced grower told me it was bad for the roots. I dont believe that as i had an increase in yeild. And i use soilless so its more available to the plants and which is why you are sappose to use less. In hydro your using double the amount i am using. It is very akailine so i dont need ph up when i had a half cup to 55 gal.
> The only problem i could see is using to much of it. I cut it out near the end because i stress my plants the last week. The last week i turn my thermostat down to 20c so i have increase airflow 24/7 to bring out more color.


 My understanding is Silica = Sand -I seriously doubt it's bad for roots... I'm sure desert plants are highly dependant on healthy root structure...


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## MasterS (Jul 3, 2011)

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/395741-testing-beneficial-bacteria-ebb-flow.html is when Homebrewer tested Great White you can read it and make our own analysis supplemented with his view.

Also, he probably posts the amounts in each of his journals but since this is the most recent one check one of the pages. Probably closer to the start of the journal 





Natalie Ghost said:


> HomeBrewer,
> 
> What's the ml of each product you use per gallon of R/O water from the DG line?
> Also wanted to asked you if using Great White makes a different on your final yield.


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## MasterS (Jul 3, 2011)

Desert plants rely on very good drainage because their shallow roots are very suseptable to rot. I live in Phoenix, Arizona and have grown countless cacti. Killed most due to over watering >.< haha


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## burrr (Jul 3, 2011)

Here is a little update on my dynagrow dwc/ebb low nute level grow. Ph has always been stable, and I am now feeding at about 300ppm or .6EC. Now that we are at day 51 they are eating less, taking a 20 gallon res down about 2 gallons and 15 ppm overnight. I must confess that I'm more of an ebb and flow grow now. I have a net basket full of hydroton above aerated water in each bucket. 6 times a day I exchange the nute solution with a 15 minute flood cycle that floods the basket of hydroton. My buckets are NOT full of roots like my previous waterfarm grows, but the hydroton is full of roots. My plants still show no deficiencys at all, no curl on the fan leaves, and just the right level of "greenness". I am starting to think that roots would rather live above water than under it... even with a ton of bubbles.


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## Grizzdude (Jul 3, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I guess we'll take him at his word since he 'tested' eight different nutrient brands yet failed to post even one picture??? I'm also wondering why his gpw measurements are so low, new grower maybe?
> 
> EDIT: One thing I also noticed is that he was running 12 plants per 1000 watt light, 8 lights so I'm assuming a different nute line under each light. His DynaGro average is under 2 ounces per plant and I easily exceed that with 9 plants under 600 watters. So again, newer grower?


I noticed you use way too much nitrogen in the flowering part of your grows. that is why your not yielding as much as you should be. are you a rep for dynagrow or something?


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 3, 2011)

Grizzdude said:


> I noticed you use way too much nitrogen in the flowering part of your grows. that is why your not yielding as much as you should be. are you a rep for dynagrow or something?


Are you looking at Homebrewer's numbers, OR his pics? It's sort of weird to say he's using "way" too much nitrogen when the plants look like they do. Plants grow by what they need in their current environment, NOT by what a formula label dictates may work, a good grower will read his plants and adapt. It would be more prudent to read the whole thread, and his others before making assumptions and consequently accusational statements such that he has alterior motives. From what I can tell, this is among the few that is giving honest info out there, it's not surprising his data conflicts with some mainstream info. Like he said- he has pics, everything else without must be taken with a grain of salt. You probably didn't mean to come off so bad, but think about what it sounds like when you just pop in the thread without obviously taking the time to read all the info- and then posting these things... For what it's worth- I take everyone's advice with a grain of salt, because all of our conditions are different, and I'm starting to believe that has alot to do with what works for each individual setup...


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## Grizzdude (Jul 3, 2011)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Are you looking at Homebrewer's numbers, OR his pics? It's sort of weird to say he's using "way" too much nitrogen when the plants look like they do. Plants grow by what they need in their current environment, NOT by what a formula label dictates may work, a good grower will read his plants and adapt. It would be more prudent to read the whole thread, and his others before making assumptions and consequently accusational statements such that he has alterior motives. From what I can tell, this is among the few that is giving honest info out there, it's not surprising his data conflicts with some mainstream info. Like he said- he has pics, everything else without must be taken with a grain of salt. You probably didn't mean to come off so bad, but think about what it sounds like when you just pop in the thread without obviously taking the time to read all the info- and then posting these things... For what it's worth- I take everyone's advice with a grain of salt, because all of our conditions are different, and I'm starting to believe that has alot to do with what works for each individual setup...


I'm talking about all his pics and other posts. How can you trust someone who doesn't even flush correctly. He even started a thread a while back stating Why does my bud taste like shit? His plants are way too green during the last two weeks of harvest. I've seen a lot of bad info out of him


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 3, 2011)

Well, obviously no one is perfect. I am sure five years from now he will laugh at how he used to do things- as we all will. But the fact is that his grows, writing skills, and tests are entertaining and provide another piece fo the puzzle for me. Compare it to your posts that are just inflammitory and condescending so far in someone else's thread that you don't have to be a part of if you don't agree. I'm not rippin on ya, it's not the way I am- just trying to make a point. You could have made the same point by giving a little respect and wording stuff like "Hey, in my experience and from what I've read, I think feeding less nitrogen could prove to be beneficial". The way you word things- all your gonna do is kill the environment for good informational exchange. I see it all the time here though, and just don't get it.

Added: Perhaps you could be more constructive and let us know your feeding schedule and conditions that would apparently work better? I'm all ears- cuz I'm here to learn... And the statement about flushing I will give my thoughts on. Mother nature tends to be quite efficient. When was the last time you saw a plant getting flushed in the wild? If there is any reason to flush, it's because the plant has been nearly poisoned by feeding it way too much ( a common mistake in my opinion), and then you're just making an equal inverse mistake to try to balance the issue. Don't overfeed, don't flush... Seems perfectly logical to me... Would it be too much to ask if you have any pics to example that your grows are superior?


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## fallinprince (Jul 3, 2011)

Grizzdude said:


> I'm talking about all his pics and other posts. How can you trust someone who doesn't even flush correctly. He even started a thread a while back stating Why does my bud taste like shit? His plants are way too green during the last two weeks of harvest. I've seen a lot of bad info out of him


Interesting choice for complaints how about i make one. How exactly do you get 755 posts without a single picture of anything you have grown? for that matter it seems as though you havent opened a thread of your own in almost a full year. 

Aside from plants in the wild not ever having the ability to flush. how many plants have smoked/ate/smelled that tasted like nutrients? ive aquired at least 80+ strains in my smoking career and never have i ever had weed that smelled anything like the nutrients I've used.

Garbage weed didnt become that way from not flushing your plants. it came from mexico and poorly tended outdoor grows


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## stillgamble (Jul 3, 2011)

Grizzdude said:


> I'm talking about all his pics and other posts. How can you trust someone who doesn't even flush correctly. He even started a thread a while back stating Why does my bud taste like shit? His plants are way too green during the last two weeks of harvest. I've seen a lot of bad info out of him


i have read most of hb post and i dont recall him saying his bud taste like shit, can u find this quote maybe u misread it as i know he does not flush anymore


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## irishboy (Jul 4, 2011)

who here uses silica all the way threw flowering and the start of flowering? i keep getting a feeling the silica is making my girls not flower? i was reading the Dyna gro web page and i seen this while reading threw the silica

*Silicon deficiencies often are indicated by malformation of young leaves and a failure of 
pollination and fruit formation in many cases. Plants with silicon added to the nutrient formula 
also show delayed leaf and flower senescence. The shelf life of cut flowers, specialty pot crops and 
plugs is also extended. Leaves are thicker and darker green compared to those grown without 
soluble silicon.*

maybe i am too high but is it saying silica delayed flowering? or am i reading that wrong and thats not what their talking about? how many people use silica all the way threw and still have their plants flower just fine?


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 4, 2011)

irishboy said:


> who here uses silica all the way threw flowering and the start of flowering? i keep getting a feeling the silica is making my girls not flower? i was reading the Dyna gro web page and i seen this while reading threw the silica
> 
> *Silicon deficiencies often are indicated by malformation of young leaves and a failure of *
> *pollination and fruit formation in many cases. Plants with silicon added to the nutrient formula *
> ...


You scared me for a second- when I saw that statement, I thought you might be right, but senescence is a biological term with it's root being something similar to "senile". The statement probably means that the flowers will last longer without dying of old age, not that they will fail to mature. This would make sense as silicon is known to strengthen the cells and protect them from damage. Although only a few runs, I used silicon from start to finish. I had better than average results, with room for improvement, none of which had anything to do with delayed flowering, but just normal learning curve stuff. I am fairly certain that Homebrewer uses it the full grow, but I don't wanna answer for him. If you are feeding to much nitrogen, it can delay flowering. Also, if you expose them to any light during the dark cycle- even just a minute or so, or perhaps a nightlight/status light in the room, it can reset the flowering stage I've read. Any of this seem applicable?


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## irishboy (Jul 4, 2011)

Trichy Bastard said:


> You scared me for a second- when I saw that statement, I thought you might be right, but senescence is a biological term with it's root being something similar to "senile". The statement probably means that the flowers will last longer without dying of old age, not that they will fail to mature. This would make sense as silicon is known to strengthen the cells and protect them from damage. Although only a few runs, I used silicon from start to finish. I had better than average results, with room for improvement, none of which had anything to do with delayed flowering, but just normal learning curve stuff. I am fairly certain that Homebrewer uses it the full grow, but I don't wanna answer for him. If you are feeding to much nitrogen, it can delay flowering. Also, if you expose them to any light during the dark cycle- even just a minute or so, or perhaps a nightlight/status light in the room, it can reset the flowering stage I've read. Any of this seem applicable?


lol. sorry didnt mean to scare u bro. i scared myself.lol

everything is in check and i am almost certain its the high temps from the summer heat and not being able to use A/C in the grow room messing with the flowering. i just wanted to check and make sure because Protekt is something new for me to use in flowering, ive used in veg. no light leeks, not high N or anything like that. just high temps and silica are new,

just wanted to make sure others have used silica before in flowering and didnt have any issue with their plants not flowering? 

how much pro-tekt is everyone using per gal? i am in SunShine#4


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 4, 2011)

Hah- cool man... To be honest, the silicone is supposed to help the plants ability to deal with heat stress, as it strengthens cells and therefore their ability to retain moisture (just regurgitating what I read). I believe HB uses a constant 5ml/gal throughout the grow- but check back a few pages to be sure because that's for hydro, not soil. I'm getting a little self conscious about over posting in here, when he gets back he's gonna be like "WTF!" hehe - For what it's worth- nice nuggs in your pic man... I remember seeing your grow realtime (I think that was the one from a few months back?)

Edit: I don't think he uses silica in the soil- most soil already has it in it's natural composition. I still don't think you can really od on the stuff though. I read that tomatoes are "silica loving" so now I am growing the hugest soil cherry tomatoes I've ever had with silica- maybe a coincidence- but each bush is like 5 feet tall and 6 feet wide- monsters~!


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## mdanforth (Jul 4, 2011)

I use 5 mls/ of protekt per gallon all the way thru with no probs....My plants are stronger, healthier and no more PM.....


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## irishboy (Jul 4, 2011)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Hah- cool man... To be honest, the silicone is supposed to help the plants ability to deal with heat stress, as it strengthens cells and therefore their ability to retain moisture (just regurgitating what I read). I believe HB uses a constant 5ml/gal throughout the grow- but check back a few pages to be sure because that's for hydro, not soil. I'm getting a little self conscious about over posting in here, when he gets back he's gonna be like "WTF!" hehe - For what it's worth- nice nuggs in your pic man... I remember seeing your grow realtime (I think that was the one from a few months back?)
> 
> Edit: I don't think he uses silica in the soil- most soil already has it in it's natural composition. I still don't think you can really od on the stuff though. I read that tomatoes are "silica loving" so now I am growing the hugest soil cherry tomatoes I've ever had with silica- maybe a coincidence- but each bush is like 5 feet tall and 6 feet wide- monsters~!


 thanks bro, those nugs were grown last year in 105F temps with $10 nutes from homedepot.lol. my last grow ur talking a few months back was a 100% organic grow, witch turned out insane quality. i will no longer had chemical bloom boosters and will always have seaweed and guano's instead. 

as of right now i have been feeding 5ml per gal, silica is a must since i am dealing with very high temps, witch i think i can pull off, i mean my room has been 110F and my plants are sexy looking but i am not running HID and dont have radiant heat beaming down on my girl.


mdanforth said:


> I use 5 mls/ of protekt per gallon all the way thru with no probs....My plants are stronger, healthier and no more PM.....


 thanks my friend


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## burrr (Jul 4, 2011)

I've often wondered if the silica we add to our plants could be harming the final user. I'm leaning toward probably not, but found this article that suggests it could be a cancer hazard. http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2001/02/23/246895.htm


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## maphisto (Jul 4, 2011)

@ Grizzdude got pics of your grow? whats your nute formula like?what are you pulling down every harvest?why do you flush, is it because you over feed your plants to the point they are fried? you shouldnt come over to this thread the way you did.you should of thanked the man for his time and efforts at least he wants to help.

@ Trichy hope ya found a good nute schedule.If ya notice hb has not been around that much like his other threads, i bet it's because of people like Grizzdude that come off all wierd.he is gonna kill it for people like you and i who want that lb per 600 watt


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## reverof (Jul 4, 2011)

I actually agree with HB about not flushing. he is absolutely right about plants needed nutes all the way up to their harvest date. I do however cut back my nutes quite heavily as the plants needs are cut substantially. Personally I cut back nutes starting roughly 2 weeks prior to guestimate of harvest. I begin taking it down about 10-15% a feeding till I reach a reduction of 70%. I also do 3 flushes in last 2 weeks, including a final flush just a few days prior to harvest.


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## reverof (Jul 4, 2011)

I will also note... I will be switching to DG is near future, once I run out of my FoxFarm nutes for future grows, very pleased with what I have read about it and peoples uses.


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## burrr (Jul 4, 2011)

Grizdouche is probably on HB's ignore list.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 4, 2011)

burrr said:


> I've often wondered if the silica we add to our plants could be harming the final user. I'm leaning toward probably not, but found this article that suggests it could be a cancer hazard. http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2001/02/23/246895.htm


Burr- Good article- some stuff I never read before. What I got out of it is that silica is good for your plants, but causes them to make particles that can be bad for us. Wouldn't woory too much though. To put it into perspective- all the natural soil grown plants in the world for millenia have been grown with silica. Kinda gets you thinking though- doesn't it?


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 4, 2011)

maphisto said:


> @ Grizzdude got pics of your grow? whats your nute formula like?what are you pulling down every harvest?why do you flush, is it because you over feed your plants to the point they are fried? you shouldnt come over to this thread the way you did.you should of thanked the man for his time and efforts at least he wants to help.
> 
> @ Trichy hope ya found a good nute schedule.If ya notice hb has not been around that much like his other threads, i bet it's because of people like Grizzdude that come off all wierd.he is gonna kill it for people like you and i who want that lb per 600 watt


Agreed on both points!- thanks...


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## homebrewer (Jul 4, 2011)

burrr said:


> Grizdouche is probably on HB's ignore list.


 He actually is on my ignore list . He got butthurt a while ago in the thread below and likes to hold grudges I guess. 

https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/353188-proper-flushing-how-long.html



My aplogies for missing the weekly update last week. I changed the res on the normal day and was out of town all weekend. I believe the harvest date is this week so I'll post some final pics of the plants and we'll start wrapping this shiz up.


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## irishboy (Jul 5, 2011)

i will say i know about flushing and tested this many times. if u over feed ur plants and add unneeded stuff u need to flush, if u feed ur plants right and give them what they want when they want u dont need to flush. its that simple ive tried this many times and their both the same with clean white ash, if u get black ash they u added too much stuff. if ur adding some crazy 5-50-36NPK booster then u just over feed ur plants big time and should flush for sure.ive done it all and including pure organics and i know this is the truth for sure because ive smoked it all on my own personal grows.


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## mr.smileyface (Jul 5, 2011)

irishboy said:


> i will say i know about flushing and tested this many times. if u over feed ur plants and add unneeded stuff u need to flush, if u feed ur plants right and give them what they want when they want u dont need to flush. its that simple ive tried this many times and their both the same with clean white ash, if u get black ash they u added too much stuff. if ur adding some crazy 5-50-36NPK booster then u just over feed ur plants big time and should flush for sure.ive done it all and including pure organics and i know this is the truth for sure because ive smoked it all on my own personal grows.


 a friend of mines dad uses 10-30-20 peters aka tecnigro. from start to finish of 12/12 and flushes 6 times at the end. His weed burns black still. He feeds the same strength threw out the cycle. He has to use a flushing solution or his weed will always burn like that. Its because of the Ammonium nitrate in the fert. In most liquid forms of ferts, they use nitrates that can be flushed out and burnt off in the enviorment quikly. But still he wont switch cause it works for him. He spends 100 a year for a 6 kw grow. Old school. Btw the way his plants dont show signs of overfeeding. That fert is just hard to flush out. So in some cases flushing is nessisary. If you have a food with a low N (nitrate)percent then u might not need to flush depending on how much your plant is eating. I flush for one week. It takes a while for the food to get used. So why waste nutrients. Everyones grow is differnt. So if your ash is black u might want to change something.


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## mr.smileyface (Jul 5, 2011)

irishboy said:


> thanks bro, those nugs were grown last year in 105F temps with $10 nutes from homedepot.lol. my last grow ur talking a few months back was a 100% organic grow, witch turned out insane quality. i will no longer had chemical bloom boosters and will always have seaweed and guano's instead.
> 
> *as of right now i have been feeding 5ml per gal*, silica is a must since i am dealing with very high temps, witch i think i can pull off, i mean my room has been 110F and my plants are sexy looking but i am not running HID and dont have radiant heat beaming down on my girl.
> 
> thanks my friend


Thats your problem. 5ml a gallon in sunshine mix is crazy. Even if you cycle water,food,water. Try 2ml a gallon.
There is no way it would stop your plants from flowering. 
5 ml a gallon is for hydro.


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## irishboy (Jul 5, 2011)

mr.smileyface said:


> Thats your problem. 5ml a gallon in sunshine mix is crazy. Even if you cycle water,food,water. Try 2ml a gallon.
> There is no way it would stop your plants from flowering.
> 5 ml a gallon is for hydro.


SS#4 is hydro just like coco is hydro so i figured 5ml would be best?


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## irishboy (Jul 5, 2011)

mr.smileyface said:


> a friend of mines dad uses 10-30-20 peters aka tecnigro. from start to finish of 12/12 and flushes 6 times at the end. His weed burns black still. He feeds the same strength threw out the cycle. He has to use a flushing solution or his weed will always burn like that. Its because of the Ammonium nitrate in the fert. In most liquid forms of ferts, they use nitrates that can be flushed out and burnt off in the enviorment quikly. But still he wont switch cause it works for him. He spends 100 a year for a 6 kw grow. Old school. Btw the way his plants dont show signs of overfeeding. That fert is just hard to flush out. So in some cases flushing is nessisary. If you have a food with a low N (nitrate)percent then u might not need to flush depending on how much your plant is eating. I flush for one week. It takes a while for the food to get used. So why waste nutrients. Everyones grow is differnt. So if your ash is black u might want to change something.


IDK used the same ferts ive feed heavy and ash was black ive fed less and ash was white. my point is allot of growers over feed too much.


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## mdanforth (Jul 5, 2011)

I run in pro mix and use 5mls/gal......


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 5, 2011)

mr.smileyface said:


> a friend of mines dad uses 10-30-20 peters aka tecnigro. from start to finish of 12/12 and flushes 6 times at the end. His weed burns black still. He feeds the same strength threw out the cycle. He has to use a flushing solution or his weed will always burn like that. Its because of the Ammonium nitrate in the fert. In most liquid forms of ferts, they use nitrates that can be flushed out and burnt off in the enviorment quikly. But still he wont switch cause it works for him. He spends 100 a year for a 6 kw grow. Old school. Btw the way his plants dont show signs of overfeeding. That fert is just hard to flush out. So in some cases flushing is nessisary. If you have a food with a low N (nitrate)percent then u might not need to flush depending on how much your plant is eating. I flush for one week. It takes a while for the food to get used. So why waste nutrients. Everyones grow is differnt. So if your ash is black u might want to change something.


Strange, I don't understand much about judging the color of the ash- guess I'll have to read up on the theory...


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## homebrewer (Jul 5, 2011)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Strange, I don't understand much about judging the color of the ash- guess I'll have to read up on the theory...


 It's more BS stoner belief than anything else. I think white ash means something desirable like the plant was 'finished properly' and darker ash means the opposite. The wood in my fireplace burns to white ash, can anyone make any sense of that?


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## mr.smileyface (Jul 5, 2011)

irishboy said:


> IDK used the same ferts ive feed heavy and ash was black ive fed less and ash was white. my point is allot of growers over feed too much.


 Yea. ive overfed and didnt flush once and it was my first grow. the weed didnt burn right and was far from smooth and guess what it burnt black. Now im the less is more guy. But i still read my plants. ive been doing the same strain for a while. im a water feed water kind of guy. But depends on how often i would have to water.
i guess thats from overfeeding. Depends on how long you give the plants to work it off. 
That what the clearing solution is made for right?


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jul 5, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> It's more BS stoner belief than anything else. I think white ash means something desirable like the plant was 'finished properly' and darker ash means the opposite. The wood in my fireplace burns to white ash, can anyone make any sense of that?


We should all be smoking wood?


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 6, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> It's more BS stoner belief than anything else. I think white ash means something desirable like the plant was 'finished properly' and darker ash means the opposite. The wood in my fireplace burns to white ash, can anyone make any sense of that?


Yeah- I would assume black means the substances haven't finished burning- I'm sure any ash will whiten as you burn it wholly. Just a guess. Sounds more like a wives tale to me...


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 6, 2011)

Here's something I found that sounds pretty reasonable to me- I'm curious what others thinK?

see Post#7
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/9-patients-forum/7092-black-ash-vs-gray-ash.html


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## fallinprince (Jul 6, 2011)

in response to that long ASS post that i jumped some paragraphs i would like to say. SO Homebrewer whats your curing process again?

tbh burning white vs burning blackish imo. you want black 

if you have ever made a batch of black finger hash you would realize its actually a very dark green.

the medicine that burns white usually has a short lasting buzz and was a very stemmed leafy substance. Which keeps in line with HB saying wood burns white and we dont want to be smoking wood do we?

really nice resinous bud should make what i fondly call "dark matter" ((named after a pipe i had that used to make these stupid gooey balls of resin)). due to its sticky gets on everything and a bitch to remove nature


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 6, 2011)

fallinprince said:


> in response to that long ASS post that i jumped some paragraphs i would like to say. SO Homebrewer whats your curing process again?
> 
> tbh burning white vs burning blackish imo. you want black
> 
> ...


Which post fallinprince?


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## homebrewer (Jul 6, 2011)

Guys, I kindly ask that we put an end to the 'color of the ash' conversation. If you'd like to discuss further, please do so elsewhere as I do not think this topic deserves any attention at all. 



> *SO Homebrewer whats your curing process again?*


I just hang the buds until they're dry to the touch. They're then trimmed off the branches and placed in bags for about 24 hours. After a day, they're usually wet again at which point i'll lay the bud out for 12-24 hours or until drier to the touch. They're then 'sweat' again in bags but it may take several days for the bud to become moist. Repeat. 

Over the years, the one thing that I've found with curing is that you just don't want to dry the bud too fast. I believe it's important to be able to have that first 'sweat' to sort of lock in that aroma, but other than that, what works best is really up to the grower. I personally think the 'long cures means higher potency' idea is more of a function of moisture content within the bud than something 'curing' is actually accomplishing. Even the crispy, brittle bud that dried out too fast because you were busy with other things in life is still very potent. Just a little harsh.


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## MasterS (Jul 6, 2011)

Just to clarify longer cure does not mean more THC, when dried, cured, and stored properly the bud has already lost all the moisture it's going to lose. A longer cure with any unfavorable conditions is only going to break down the THC. Maybe people aren't drying/curing right so a longer storage is causing more decarboxylation than they are used to which gets them more high and feels like it's more potent. I'm not sure how they are using it or what is happening with the bud but logically there is no way a properly dried, cured, and stored bud could gain any more than it had from when the plant was ready to be smoked.

From wet bud to dry it 'gains more potency' only because there is less water weight so THC content/weight of bud is higher.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 6, 2011)

HB- know it's sort of a dumb question, but do you use a paper or plastic bag. I've seen people use paper, but the way you describe the sweating it sounds like you might use plastic. I like mason jars- and experimented vacuum packing them with a foodsaver and tossing in the freezer for long term storage once cured- and I can honestly say that a over a year later it's just like the day I put it in there... Sometimes I even think it helps add a touch to the cure.


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## homebrewer (Jul 6, 2011)

Trichy Bastard said:


> HB- know it's sort of a dumb question, but do you use a paper or plastic bag.


I use plastic. They don't make 5 gallon mason jars which is what I'd need. My personal meds are in jars, however.


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## mdanforth (Jul 6, 2011)

they do make some nice 1 gallon cookie type jars with a screw on lid....found em at wally-world.....


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## maphisto (Jul 6, 2011)

yo hb go to your local bar (hole in the wall) ask them for their olive jar, the jars i get are 5lb glass jars for olives.they are just going to throw them out anyway.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 6, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I use plastic. They don't make 5 gallon mason jars which is what I'd need. My personal meds are in jars, however.


Thanks HB- and Maphisto's right- the cherry jars are usually the same size as well. I used to give them away all the time to people for all sorts of uses, so it raises no suspicions- not that a bartender cares anyway


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## ssh420 (Jul 6, 2011)

Another excellent thread by Homebrewer, if you keep throwing out all this good information on your threads OP your gonna be the next uncle ben. At the beginning of this thread you mentioned that for pro mix on your straight water days you add 3 ml of cal/mag. Obviously you find this is enough for your plants but I was wondering if you use it throughout the grow or if you use it only for flower? What brand of cal/mag do you use? I would also like to know if youve given some thought as to what your next thread might be because I doubt I'm the only one wondering. Long time lurker, first time poster. Thank you


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## homebrewer (Jul 6, 2011)

ssh420 said:


> At the beginning of this thread you mentioned that for pro mix on your straight water days you add 3 ml of cal/mag. Obviously you find this is enough for your plants but I was wondering if you use it throughout the grow or if you use it only for flower?


I use RO water so the calmag on 'water days' adds back a desirable mineral content. I'm more-or-less mimicking good tap water as mine in the winter is 300+ ppm. During the summer, I just skip the calmag and use my 200ppm tap water on 'water' days. 



> What brand of cal/mag do you use?


Botanicare because I had it sitting around. Actually bought it years ago when I had no idea why it was even needed. I learned pretty quickly that with my tap water, it's not needed. With RO, I now have a use for it in the dirt...occasionally. 



> I would also like to know if youve given some thought as to what your next thread might be because I doubt I'm the only one wondering. Long time lurker, first time poster.


Thanks for the support. To be honest, I _may_ be dipping out after this thread as the constant stream of bad info around here is annoying to me. People get into this hobby without ever tending to a veggie garden and without that common sense gardening experience, newbs tend to be easily brainwashed which is why the same stupid thread topics get brought up all the time. Defoliation? Are you kidding me? I guess the cannabis growers around here were outside smoking weed in their cars instead of attending their high school _Plant Biology_ class.

...I mean, don't get me wrong. I like helping people out. I get a lot of PMs and respond to them as soon as I can. But when common sense is met with closed minds and straight up ignorance in threads, _that_ gets old.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 6, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> To be honest, I _may_ be dipping out after this thread as the constant stream of bad info around here is annoying to me. People get into this hobby without ever tending to a veggie garden and without that common sense gardening experience, newbs tend to be easily brainwashed which is why the same stupid thread topics get brought up all the time.


Harsh but true. It would be a loss for the community for sure- as then we are only left with a greater imbalance of bad information. I joined this site out of all the others because of your work- and I am sure that I'm not the only one... You've taught me to use common sense when it comes to this topic, and although I still have much to learn, I think most of it will come easier now. Hope knowing the time you spend makes a positive difference in at least a few people's lives who are listening and learning. There comes a point when you have to ask what you're getting out of it for yourself though- and I can see where it becomes a bit one sided.

Hey- I think I read somewhere you were giving the beneficial mites a shot- if so, how is it going so far?


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## homebrewer (Jul 7, 2011)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Hey- I think I read somewhere you were giving the beneficial mites a shot- if so, how is it going so far?


 I actually saw the stethorus bugs eating mites and their eggs, but after a few days, I don't know where they disappeared to. I also picked up some spider mite predators and I don't think they did squat. Maybe I didn't buy enough? Maybe they fell into my flood tables during a flood? I think if there are any mites around after my azamax treatments, I'll give lady bugs a try. I'd highly recommend the stethorus bugs but they're expensive and you'll need a lot of them.


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## homebrewer (Jul 7, 2011)

This will be one of the final picture updates of the journal as I believe today is day 64 and these ugly ladies will be getting the chop either tomorrow or Saturday. Good thing too because I&#8217;m tired of these yellow plants in my garden . Leaf curl, deficiencies, leaf drop (not too bad actually), tip burn at modest feeding levels, that pretty much sums up these AK47s being grown with Connoisseur. This has not been an easy fertilizer to work with and I think the plants show exactly that. For comparison purposes, there are a few pics below of another flood table with my purple strain and some Kali mist plants. I know the kalis streeeetched too much but it&#8217;s the first time they&#8217;ve been in the hydro setup (I had no idea they&#8217;d quadruple in height) and this is also the first time I&#8217;ve run my purple strain with DynaGro in hydro. Notice the difference in plant health and both trays are the same age. My sativa tray will go another 2 weeks or so but you get my point. 

So the AKs don&#8217;t look good but I will say this; resin production looks excellent and the buds smell as you&#8217;d expect. I wouldn&#8217;t call the yield &#8216;chunky&#8217; but there are some decent sized buds in the mix and with the plants all laying on the trellis netting, there is some weight there too. Once the yellow leaves are all trimmed off and the buds manicured, I&#8217;d say I&#8217;ll have some good looking product at the end of this. I&#8217;ll probably give them a couple weeks to dry and sweat before I take some final harvest numbers but as it stands, this experiment with Advanced Nutrients&#8217; Connoisseur doesn&#8217;t *look* like it&#8217;ll be costing me a whole lot of weight. 

For comparison purposes, there are some &#8216;dynagro in the dirt&#8217; pics as well as a few from my tray of sativas being grow exactly next to my Connoisseur tray. 


*Chronic &#8211; Day 52 &#8211; Harvest day &#8211; DynaGro in the dirt:*



*Connoisseur day 64:*





*DynaGro day 64:*


*Connoisseur day 64:*









*DynaGro day 64: *

 







*Sativa tray &#8211; Day 64 &#8211; DynaGro &#8211; My purple strain and Kali mist*



*My purple strain, first time in hydro with DynaGro, day 64 which is about 2 weeks from harvest&#8230;*



*My personal all time favorite, the stretchy Kali mist with DynaGro, day 64 which is about 2 weeks from harvest&#8230;*


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## Encomium (Jul 7, 2011)

Wow as always it looks amazing. I'll be looking forward to the final pics in a few weeks! 

Again, cheers to you hb for the journey.


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## mr.smileyface (Jul 7, 2011)

Everyone is a pro grower around here eh HB
The dyna grow tray looks decent. The connie trays looks like mexican swag. 
Not much bag appeal there. Try using an a/c for more dense and round buds. Or keep the temps in the mid 20's (good advice)
Looks frosty tho. ive kinda learnt from your mistake. Need to cut back on N the last half of the cycle for flood N drain.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 7, 2011)

Very nice- even with the less than ideal conditions for the comparison... I'm sure that Kali is gonna be great when it finishes up ... 
I noticed your hygrometer/barometer/thermostat in the background. I was curious if you have found any need to adjust feeding or other parameters based on differing levels of readings from these instruments. I know these paramaters do indeed affect transpiration, but was curious if it translated into something real world you made changes based on- even before noticing any changes in the ladies. If so- what would be the general things you look for, and adjustments you make accordingly?


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## budhuger (Jul 7, 2011)

The results are +/- about the same with C and DG. What is the difference in costs for this grow?


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## homebrewer (Jul 7, 2011)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Very nice- even with the less than ideal conditions for the comparison...


Less than ideal? My conditions are always the same.



> I noticed your hygrometer/barometer/thermostat in the background. I was curious if you have found any need to adjust feeding or other parameters based on differing levels of readings from these instruments.


I'm only looking at humidity. My dumpster strain will mold if the humidity is too high late in flower so when I have a tray of it, I just turn my dehumidifier up to get the humidity under 50%.



> I know these paramaters do indeed affect transpiration, but was curious if it translated into something real world you made changes based on- even before noticing any changes in the ladies. If so- what would be the general things you look for, and adjustments you make accordingly?


I have control over everything and when the day and night temps are in the 70's, that causes my dirt pots to take a looooong time to dry out which will cause root issues. Same applies to my rockwool blocks. You want the plants to cycle through water and food and they do that at a slower rate at lower temps. When I've experimented near 90*, that was too high. I shoot for 80-85 during the day and 75-80 during the night.




> *budhuger*The results are +/- about the same with C and DG. What is the difference in costs for this grow?​


I agree, +/- a few ounces. The cost difference is one factor, how about the time it took to adjust the pH multiple times per week or the health of the plants or the yield difference?


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 8, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Less than ideal? My conditions are always the same.


Sorry- I should have been more specific- just meant in using the Connoisseur for the first time. Thanks for all the other info man...


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## burrr (Jul 8, 2011)

You can clearly see that the extra N took its toll on the Connoisseur grow. i am amazed at the results I'm getting using dynagrow at very weak concentrations, My girls in mid flower are completely happy at .9 EC, and the mature girls are coasting along at .5EC. at day 58 I'm showing a little yellow in the fan leaves as you would expect so close to harvest. I have not been adding any extra N to the bloom mix. I encourage everyone to have a go at running very low nute levels, I know I was pleasantly surprised. My buds look the best of anything I've ever grown.
HB has really sped up my learning curve by pointing me in the low nute level direction. I could have continued feeding at a normal 800 ppm and chased my tail trying to figure out whats wrong. I look back on feeding at 1200ppm, and getting signs of calcium and magnesium def. I even thought I had tobacco mosaic virus while burning my girls at "normal feeding levels". 


Question for HB
I know you like to add the 1ml of grow to your bloom nutes to give a little extra N. I remember you commenting in one of your earlier journals that the lower leaves were showing some yellow and started adding N to correct this. Do you think that the yellow may have just been from low light at the bottom of the canopy, and not a N deficiency. My grow was a little less dense than yours with just 3 plants under the 600watt, and never showed the pale undergrowth.


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## homebrewer (Jul 8, 2011)

burrr said:


> Question for HB
> I know you like to add the 1ml of grow to your bloom nutes to give a little extra N. I remember you commenting in one of your earlier journals that the lower leaves were showing some yellow and started adding N to correct this. Do you think that the yellow may have just been from low light at the bottom of the canopy, and not a N deficiency. My grow was a little less dense than yours with just 3 plants under the 600watt, and never showed the pale undergrowth.


 As much as I love DynaGro and the results I get from them, I don't think their bloom formula (3-12-6) has enough N to keep plants totally green early in flower. The easy fix was to add a couple mls per gallon of 'grow' into the mix which corrected any yellowing and premature leaf drop earlier on in flower. I don't think it was a light issue as I have not had that 'yellowing' issue since I started mixing grow and bloom.

EDIT: If you notice up at the top of the page, the DynaGro tray is starting to turn light green and would eventually work it's way to yellow. I will sometimes cut out the grow all together during the last two weeks just to see how the plants react. It doesn't take long for those leaves to lighten color when 'grow' isn't in the mix. It depends on each one of our setups but I'm a big fan of supplementing a touch of grow formula during flower.


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## budhuger (Jul 8, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> As much as I love DynaGro and the results I get from them, I don't think their bloom formula (3-12-6) has enough N to keep plants totally green early in flower. The easy fix was to add a couple mls per gallon of 'grow' into the mix which corrected any yellowing and premature leaf drop earlier on in flower. I don't think it was a light issue as I have not had that 'yellowing' issue since I started mixing grow and bloom.
> 
> EDIT: If you notice up at the top of the page, the DynaGro tray is starting to turn light green and would eventually work it's way to yellow. I will sometimes cut out the grow all together during the last two weeks just to see how the plants react. It doesn't take long for those leaves to lighten color when 'grow' isn't in the mix. It depends on each one of our setups but I'm a big fan of supplementing a touch of grow formula during flower.


How much grow formula you put during flower? 
And how much bloom formula?
And theres any point during flower that you cut the grow formula or just keep it all the way to finish?
Thanks!!!


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## budhuger (Jul 8, 2011)

> I agree, +/- a few ounces. The cost difference is one factor, how about the time it took to adjust the pH multiple times per week or the health of the plants or the yield difference?


[/QUOTE]

True I agree too, and I hear the DG accumulate less salt build up on hydro systems especially with drip systems. I going to try DG on my next grow Thanks HB.


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## burrr (Jul 8, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> As much as I love DynaGro and the results I get from them, I don't think their bloom formula (3-12-6) has enough N to keep plants totally green early in flower. The easy fix was to add a couple mls per gallon of 'grow' into the mix which corrected any yellowing and premature leaf drop earlier on in flower. I don't think it was a light issue as I have not had that 'yellowing' issue since I started mixing grow and bloom.
> 
> EDIT: If you notice up at the top of the page, the DynaGro tray is starting to turn light green and would eventually work it's way to yellow. I will sometimes cut out the grow all together during the last two weeks just to see how the plants react. It doesn't take long for those leaves to lighten color when 'grow' isn't in the mix. It depends on each one of our setups but I'm a big fan of supplementing a touch of grow formula during flower.


Perhaps the need for nitrogen during flowering varies from strain to strain, the girls that I've been posting pics of have been on bloom only for the entire flowering period and have only started yellowing at about day 50.


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## budhuger (Jul 8, 2011)

Hi HB, what you think of Flora nova? 
Cheek out _*SCOTTYBALLS *_grow with only Flora Nova Bloom start to finish no additives and any other BS, only one bottle for the whole grow.
This looks simple and convenience and his grows looks pretty good! 
*
*


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## homebrewer (Jul 8, 2011)

budhuger said:


> How much grow formula you put during flower?
> And how much bloom formula?
> And theres any point during flower that you cut the grow formula or just keep it all the way to finish?
> Thanks!!!


 I feed at 1.2 EC and maybe 20% of that is grow formula. Of the remaining 80%, most of that is bloom with maybe 1-2mls/gallon of magpro because I use RO. Protekt is also in there but its ppm contribution is pretty small. The point at which I cut back the grow depends on the strain. Lets just say week 7 on average but most of the time, I run it till harvest. 



budhuger said:


> *True I agree too, and I hear the DG accumulate less salt build up on hydro systems especially with drip systems. I going to try DG on my next grow Thanks HB.*


 Connoisseur performed just as well as DG in regards to salt buildup or lack thereof. I used to run a drip system years ago and I could tell after a few weeks that GH was a little salty. Turns out its maybe 40% saltier than DG? I tested it somewhere in one of these journals. 



burrr said:


> Perhaps the need for nitrogen during flowering varies from strain to strain, the girls that I've been posting pics of have been on bloom only for the entire flowering period and have only started yellowing at about day 50.


Your plants look stellar so just continue to read your plants and tweak your schedule accordingly. Mine needed grow, yours apparently do not. Keep us posted on your results.


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## HighC (Jul 8, 2011)

Homebrewer, I hope that you don't stop your post. They have been helpful in the form of having good idea's to follow. For every bad comment there are 10 people that like reading your journal.


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## reverof (Jul 9, 2011)

Hell... for every negative jerk out there, there are probably 100 or more who benefit from homebrewers posts


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## irishboy (Jul 9, 2011)

burrr said:


> You can clearly see that the extra N took its toll on the Connoisseur grow. i am amazed at the results I'm getting using dynagrow at very weak concentrations, My girls in mid flower are completely happy at .9 EC, and the mature girls are coasting along at .5EC. at day 58 I'm showing a little yellow in the fan leaves as you would expect so close to harvest. I have not been adding any extra N to the bloom mix. I encourage everyone to have a go at running very low nute levels, I know I was pleasantly surprised. My buds look the best of anything I've ever grown.
> HB has really sped up my learning curve by pointing me in the low nute level direction. I could have continued feeding at a normal 800 ppm and chased my tail trying to figure out whats wrong. I look back on feeding at 1200ppm, and getting signs of calcium and magnesium def. I even thought I had tobacco mosaic virus while burning my girls at "normal feeding levels".
> 
> 
> ...


funny u say that that, i was feeding with 3.0ml per 5 gal because i was so high i was thinking i was mixing my 1gal jugs from when they were younger..lol. well funny thing is they looked great and were as healthy as it got for the longest time, they seem to love love the lighter mix over the 3tsp for 5gal i was feeding them.


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## RIXUK (Jul 9, 2011)

HB,just read threw the hole thread errm 2 hours ha.
I think youve done a brilliant job but the problem is is theres random bullshit posts that have made it a bit of a bore to go threw,the forums going to pot and its a shame,mod should be in here cleaning this thread up and thread made a sticky if you ask me,it really is a shame how people like your self,uncle ben and others are just leaving but I cant really blam you all,I hardly use here any more too,I mainly use strainehunters,bit more of a family enviroment...

Well Youve convinced me on the DynaGrow as im a person who like to keep it simple and not have to worry about ph problems,Ive found like 1 supplier in the UK,better then none and I will be following your guide,you should pop in strainhunters as theres dedicated test sections were youl get nutes and what not sent for test,Il run this against ghs nutes and what id say my most used fert vitalink max vs a few others,I wont be to detaied it will be purely on how plant looks and yield so others can see and make up there own opinions...

I do hope it is as good as it looks for me as I am looking for a easier fert that maintains ph..

Thank you for your time and dont let the minority dis hearten you..

Please update with final weight and smoke report,I look forward to it.
Take care


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## burrr (Jul 10, 2011)

day 56


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## homebrewer (Jul 10, 2011)

burrr said:


> View attachment 1684940View attachment 1684941View attachment 1684942View attachment 1684943View attachment 1684944View attachment 1684945View attachment 1684946View attachment 1684947day 56


 Isn't it amazing that restraint goes a long way with these plants? How many more days do you have there? They look perfect.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 10, 2011)

Good job Burr- that's something to be proud of... Congrats!


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## coonword (Jul 10, 2011)

i love them foxtails burr! +Rep and homebrewer we all hope u stick around!


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## Coals (Jul 10, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> To be honest, I _may_ be dipping out after this thread .


that sucks


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## homebrewer (Jul 11, 2011)

coonword said:


> ...homebrewer we all hope u stick around!


I'm working on a breeding project at the moment. Maybe if it turns out well, I'll start a journal featuring my creation.


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## burrr (Jul 11, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Isn't it amazing that restraint goes a long way with these plants? How many more days do you have there? They look perfect.


yep, it is amazing!
I'm not sure how much longer.., no amber yet and only a few cloudy trich's. It's my first time with this strain, supposed to be durban poison. A fast finishing pure sativa from africa.


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## homebrewer (Jul 11, 2011)

burrr said:


> yep, it is amazing!
> I'm not sure how much longer.., no amber yet and only a few cloudy trich's. It's my first time with this strain, supposed to be durban poison. A fast finishing pure sativa from africa.


 If it's truly a sativa, I wouldn't wait until you see amber. That'll just bog down an energetic high.

*A quick trimming update:* Connoisseur has grown some very leafy plants, more leafy than I'm used to which is easily adding 50% more time to my harvesting. In addition, the little bud leaves that literally grow out of the buds are tip-burned so I'm now spending additional time manicuring more than I should have to. I will say this though, once the buds are trimmed and manicured, they look very good.


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## DankBudzzz (Jul 11, 2011)

Was there a huge yield difference? I'm growing with (an) and was thinkin on switching


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## homebrewer (Jul 11, 2011)

DankBudzzz said:


> Was there a huge yield difference? I'm growing with (an) and was thinkin on switching


 I'm only 2/3rds done with chopping so I don't know any concrete numbers yet. I should have the final tally in about 2 weeks.


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## shnkrmn (Jul 11, 2011)

burrr said:


> yep, it is amazing!
> I'm not sure how much longer.., no amber yet and only a few cloudy trich's. It's my first time with this strain, supposed to be durban poison. A fast finishing pure sativa from africa.





homebrewer said:


> If it's truly a sativa, I wouldn't wait until you see amber. That'll just bog down an energetic high.


I'm with HB here. That stuff looks so ready to chop. Love the chunky look to those nugs. (Yours too, HB)


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jul 11, 2011)

Looks pretty good man.


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## woodsusa (Jul 11, 2011)

Great thread. I love to see people presenting proof and not just opinion. Not that opinions dont' matter. They do, from the right folks.  I'm really interested in seeing your final results. Those are great looking buds.


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## gstringer (Jul 11, 2011)

Your shizz always looks great man. Id rep u again if i could. Hope u stick around. I coppy all your stuff even the ghetto lowes flood tables. I used DG on my very first run and it came out great using your info only. Thanks for sharing.


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## fallinprince (Jul 12, 2011)

It would be sad if your threads went the way of the dyna-saurs. Ive had alot of fun reading the way you grow and your responses to people im having a little bit of coloring issues with my lady it might either be rootrot or my adding a small amount of flower into my grow food (because i was planning on switching to flower this week)


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 12, 2011)

fallinprince said:


> It would be sad if your threads went the way of the dyna-saurs.


That's funny man...


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## burrr (Jul 12, 2011)

Here we are at day 60, what do you look for in a finished sativa?
I'm still seeing new bud growth popping out at the tops.


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## homebrewer (Jul 12, 2011)

burrr said:


> Here we are at day 60, what do you look for in a finished sativa?
> I'm still seeing new bud growth popping out at the tops.


 If those were mine, I'd chop them today. Picture 7 shows a lot of red pistols and the plant from top to bottom fits my criteria for being 'ripe'. Your choice of course but with a sativa dominant strain, I'd rather error on the side of a touch early than late. In my opinion, you wont be a touch early harvesting today, you'd be exactly on time.


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## burrr (Jul 12, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> If those were mine, I'd chop them today. Picture 7 shows a lot of red pistols and the plant from top to bottom fits my criteria for being 'ripe'. Your choice of course but with a sativa dominant strain, I'd rather error on the side of a touch early than late. In my opinion, you wont be a touch early harvesting today, you'd be exactly on time.


Chopped down one of the three !!! will finish tomorrow.


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## BMWEATER (Jul 15, 2011)

Great grow, I want to see the results! I tried to switch to dyna grow when I went to the hydro store but they were all sold out....I got sold on the AN line so far I cant complain its way better than the Fox Farms nutes I used, so I am interested in how yours turns out! If the dyna grow is way better than my total investment was $55 and its not to hard to switch. Once again great grow and props for taking the time to do this grow.


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## irishboy (Jul 17, 2011)

i just got some Dyna Gro Mag-Pro, any one use this? how much do u use per gal and whats ur thoughts on this product?


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## reverof (Jul 17, 2011)

Is the below question a joke? Did you read any of the thread?



irishboy said:


> i just got some Dyna Gro Mag-Pro, any one use this? how much do u use per gal and whats ur thoughts on this product?


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 17, 2011)

irishboy said:


> i just got some Dyna Gro Mag-Pro, any one use this? how much do u use per gal and whats ur thoughts on this product?


 Irishboy- I found where it was mentioned and pmed you in case your doin a weekend res change or something... I think that was what Reverof was politely referring to.


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## homebrewer (Jul 17, 2011)

irishboy said:


> i just got some Dyna Gro Mag-Pro, any one use this? how much do u use per gal and whats ur thoughts on this product?


 I think it's intended for people who use RO water and if you're a hydro guy using RO like myself, I use 2mls per gallon. If you're using tap water, 1ml/gallon should be fine for both hydro and dirt, though I'm too lazy to use it in the dirt.


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## irishboy (Jul 17, 2011)

reverof said:


> Is the below question a joke? Did you read any of the thread?


 nope did read the whole thread and needed a quick answer. thanks for the help,lol


Trichy Bastard said:


> Irishboy- I found where it was mentioned and pmed you in case your doin a weekend res change or something... I think that was what Reverof was politely referring to.


 never got the PM my friend but seems like HB cleared it up for me. good looking out though my brotha 


homebrewer said:


> I think it's intended for people who use RO water and if you're a hydro guy using RO like myself, I use 2mls per gallon. If you're using tap water, 1ml/gallon should be fine for both hydro and dirt, though I'm too lazy to use it in the dirt.


thanks allot my friend. i was getting a mag def and my plants werent acting right, talked to DG and they said i need a 1:1 or cal/mag and can get that by using mag-pro. i am in sunshine#4 so its really drain to waste hydro but am using tap water. i was thinking about 1m per gal but just wanted to get others fed back to see what works best for them. thanks my friend


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## homebrewer (Jul 18, 2011)

So the AK47 grown with connoisseur is about 90% dry and will be placed in bags to sweat out a few more grams. In all honesty, the yield isn't looking too great and I think what is killing it is the lack of density. A lot of the lower buds had poor density but sometimes that can be expected. Something I'm noticing though is that the upper buds just aren't as compact and tend to be more 'calyx-y' and airy with connoisseur. I think resin content looks solid and the aroma is nice and with any luck, I may have a final writeup and a smoke report later this week. 







*AK47 grown with DynaGro:*


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## homebrewer (Jul 18, 2011)

I want to make sure I'm doing Connoisseur justice here because the buds actually do look pretty good with good resin production. Here's a closer shot in slightly better light:


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## homebrewer (Jul 18, 2011)

Any finally a side-by-side. Connoisseur is on the left, DynaGro on the right:


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## woodsusa (Jul 18, 2011)

They both look good. If you wouldn't mind, keep us updated on the taste and effects after it cures a bit.


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## homebrewer (Jul 18, 2011)

woodsusa said:


> They both look good. If you wouldn't mind, keep us updated on the taste and effects after it cures a bit.


 I'll be conducting a blind test with my testers to see if they can tell a difference between the two. I wont tell them anything about either nug, just that they're from different batches.

Sometimes I'll throw them a curveball and give them two nugs from the same batch just to see if they _think_ they can tell a difference. I can't remember a time where my impression of the product differed from theirs. I'm too close to this test to give an unbiased opinion but I will be sampling both just to add another opinion.


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## J2M3S (Jul 18, 2011)

Using both Sunshine Mix #4 and Mag-Pro @ 1.25 ML per gallon, since switching to Dyna-Gro, thanks to a conversation I had with homebrewer over a year ago.


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## gstringer (Jul 18, 2011)

Great looking product as always. I thinh HB could grow great weed with miracle grow.


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## irishboy (Jul 18, 2011)

HB both buds look frosted and i would smoke either one.lol. but after looking at the pics i can see how their is more "air gaps in the AN buds. still legit smoke but not that rock hard dense buds specially for the price. but quality is still their so thats good, but i think ill still to DG for now.lol



J2M3S said:


> Using both Sunshine Mix #4 and Mag-Pro @ 1.25 ML per gallon, since switching to Dyna-Gro, thanks to a conversation I had with homebrewer over a year ago.


thanks for that info, since i am using the same medium. u feed mag-pro every feeding? also how much grow or bloom u been feeding per gal in SS#4?


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 18, 2011)

Thanks again for your work Homebrewer, and sharing it with us. I've recently found a little triangle button with an exclamation in it... Gonne see what it does...

Edit: Wow- apparently it's a magic eraser for negative posts- cool...


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## HighC (Jul 19, 2011)

Is there any reason not to lolly pop early? Do you do anything for a bud that touches the light and gets burnt? I ask you HB because I respect your opinion. I just set up three 600's with almost the same set up as you.


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## nursejason (Jul 19, 2011)

I caught this thread last night, I am very new to growing did my first outdoor last season and was relatively pleased with results. Last year for flower attempted to keep as organic as possible and did bio bloom, budswell, and sweetener. I am personal friend of dyna grow and he offered me free nutes last year but wanted to stay organic but after reading and following this I think I am going to pick up nutes from him tomorrow, can't wait to see final result. I am outdoor in smart pots with foxfarm/ocean frog/perlite and still in veg just giving tea, root strenghener, bat guano, and RO water. Upon getting DG will I need to add sweetener and I caught the flushing is not extremely necessary but will probably do at least a 5 day flush before harvest. Again I am very new and still learning and having fun but obviously want to produce the best quality I possibly can, should I dilute the DG? Forgive me for how novice I am but open to critique/suggestions, thanks for your time.


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## smokeymcpotterton (Jul 20, 2011)

WOW I am so glad that you made this thread HomeBrewer!

I've learned a ton!

Thanks a lot! I was having trouble on what nutrients I should 'upgrade' to now that I have a couple GH grows under my belt, I was debating between House and Garden or AN, or possibly Botanicare 100% organic, but now I think definitifely I will use Dynagrow and combine it with some Protekt, A little bit of floralicious plus/florablend (that i have still floating around from past grows) as well as supplementing w/ "The Other Tomato" 100% organic allphase.

Thanks again!


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## homebrewer (Jul 20, 2011)

HighC said:


> Is there any reason not to lolly pop early? Do you do anything for a bud that touches the light and gets burnt? I ask you HB because I respect your opinion. I just set up three 600's with almost the same set up as you.


I like to trim up some of the smaller branches just to make harvest day a little easier. I wouldn't 'lolly pop' a sativa, apparently they tend to stretch even more when doing so.



> I caught this thread last night, I am very new to growing did my first outdoor last season and was relatively pleased with results. Last year for flower attempted to keep as organic as possible and did bio bloom, budswell, and sweetener. I am personal friend of dyna grow and he offered me free nutes last year but wanted to stay organic but after reading and following this I think I am going to pick up nutes from him tomorrow, can't wait to see final result. I am outdoor in smart pots with foxfarm/ocean frog/perlite and still in veg just giving tea, root strenghener, bat guano, and RO water. Upon getting DG will I need to add sweetener and I caught the flushing is not extremely necessary but will probably do at least a 5 day flush before harvest. Again I am very new and still learning and having fun but obviously want to produce the best quality I possibly can, should I dilute the DG? Forgive me for how novice I am but open to critique/suggestions, thanks for your time.​


Skip the sweetner and I'm not sure what you mean about diluting DynaGro. It's in concentrated form so yes, it needs added to water (diluted) in very small amounts.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 20, 2011)

nursejason said:


> I am personal friend of dyna grow and he offered me free nutes last year


I thought Dynagrow is a company, not a person, but are you saying the owner is your personal friend? -Just curious 
You would be really sorry if you poured that stuff in your plants without mixing it with water- lol. It only takes a teaspoon or few per gallon of water.


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## nursejason (Jul 20, 2011)

Thanks HB, I am sorry for not elaborating on the dilution. Obviously I am going to mix with the RO water just in this long thread I thought I caught giving recommended dose might be a little too much and cause burn, thank you for the sweetener advice, I am outdoor in 10 and 20 gallon smart pots and one in ground. Son of owner personal friend. HB looking forward to final results of yield/taste etc. I have friends who are dead set on organic and insist I should not do this, however you never know unless you try, perhaps I will do 1/2 and 1/2 for better comparison, just can't beat free nutes especially if they are DG and it's looking like DG is going to come out ahead on all factors. Thank you for being so thorough for such a newbie like me.


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## smokeymcpotterton (Jul 20, 2011)

HomeBrewer have you ever heard of or used The Other Tomato 100% Organic Allphase before?

Please let me know what you think of it and if it would be effective to combine it w/ Dynagro? It is basically an organic combination of bacterias, humic acids, and some molasses.


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## MasterS (Jul 20, 2011)

Personally I don't add that jazz to my hydroponic set up. When I grow cannabis I don't add it either. I do however add it to soil that I build and grow with. I compost cannabis soil into my soil building pile. The reason I don't use it for my soil grows with cannabis are because with soil building it is for long term and in a pot with a plant that grows for 3 months not much can be built, it is a process that takes time. Now the ravaged soil the cannabis leaves behind however I add to my soil pile that is full of amendments and active biological life to re-establish a symbiotic soil.


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## steeZz (Jul 20, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I'll be conducting a blind test with my testers to see if they can tell a difference between the two. I wont tell them anything about either nug, just that they're from different batches.
> 
> Sometimes I'll throw them a curveball and give them two nugs from the same batch just to see if they _think_ they can tell a difference. I can't remember a time where my impression of the product differed from theirs. I'm too close to this test to give an unbiased opinion but I will be sampling both just to add another opinion.


I think I would cut out my eyes to become a full time blind tester.


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## fallinprince (Jul 20, 2011)

the amount of hairs on that picture is Dramatically different. Along with the lack of need to check your plants and nutrients im gonna say Dyna-gro did the best


Ps. Its official i lost my big lady due to root rot b4 she died i cut her apart into a million pieces and cloned every branch tip and any branches that had good splitting (now ive got loads of clones)

Im still having a root rot problem with my smaller blue mystic plant (that came from seed)

i got hygrozyme (to try to fix the dead matter). i also have dosed several times with 35% (food grade) hydrogen peroxide @ 1 oz per gallon (or as i understand 100ppm). Ive been reading
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/286022-killing-root-rot-4.html

They are saying that adding some Clorox bleach to the tune of 1ml per 10 gallons would provide a more effective way at killing the root rot


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## homebrewer (Jul 20, 2011)

nursejason said:


> Thanks HB, I am sorry for not elaborating on the dilution. Obviously I am going to mix with the RO water just in this long thread I thought I caught giving recommended dose might be a little too much and cause burn, thank you for the sweetener advice, I am outdoor in 10 and 20 gallon smart pots and one in ground. Son of owner personal friend. HB looking forward to final results of yield/taste etc. I have friends who are dead set on organic and insist I should not do this, however you never know unless you try, perhaps I will do 1/2 and 1/2 for better comparison, just can't beat free nutes especially if they are DG and it's looking like DG is going to come out ahead on all factors. Thank you for being so thorough for such a newbie like me.


 I used to be an organic guy back in the day and I think the main reason was that the guys I learned from were more on the organic side. I didn't consciously make the switch to mineral-base nutes, it was just the natural progression of things as I saw improvements in the crops, harvest after harvest. I like using some organic additives in my hydro setup like florablend or floralicious plus but I have to believe that anyone who is gung-ho organic (like your friends) doesn't quite understand what plants are actually pulling up from the soil/medium. In regards to pesticides and 'organic', then I can totally understand why someone would look for OMRI labels. 



> *HomeBrewer have you ever heard of or used The Other Tomato 100% Organic Allphase before?
> 
> Please let me know what you think of it and if it would be effective to combine it w/ Dynagro? It is basically an organic combination of bacterias, humic acids, and some molasses.*


I've never heard of it and have never used it. I personally wouldn't buy it because I already own all the beneficial ingredients in that product so if it's not too expensive, give it a whirl but make sure you've set a standard for yourself in regards to strain, yield, environment, as to properly judge any possible benefits of the product.


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## smokeymcpotterton (Jul 20, 2011)

What stuff do you have where you say is already the things that are in it, if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks for the quick response!


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## homebrewer (Jul 20, 2011)

smokeymcpotterton said:


> What stuff do you have where you say is already the things that are in it, if you don't mind me asking?
> 
> Thanks for the quick response!


Salt, molasses, liquid humus, beneficials, it's on the ingredient list. I checked out their site and that shiz is $140 for a gallon. Yikes! They're also making claims of 45-120% increase in rootmass and yield and those sorts of claims are a HUGE red flag for me. Check out Great White at a fraction of the cost.


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## fallinprince (Jul 22, 2011)

smokeymcpotterton said:


> What stuff do you have where you say is already the things that are in it, if you don't mind me asking?


https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/361430-how-breed-your-own-beneficial-59.html

A great guide on beneficial bacteria usage. PS. great white is a good substitute for Zho, except Zho is cheaper. i realize there are alot of pages i havent finished even half of them yet.

Overall you have to make a tea (with just an airstone and some molassas or any carb product) and mass populate the microbes in a bucket then add that as a water additive


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## MileyCyrus (Jul 23, 2011)

HBjust finished reading your grow journals great stuff, you really know your stuff. Right now im running RO Lucas Formula with 1ml/gal cal mag at 1.8EC in a DWC. Thinking about switching to Dyna per your results. Right now im run a perpetual system. Spreads out harvest, trimming and cloning. 

What recipe would you recommend for a perpetual system, ie same formula from clone to harvest.


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## homebrewer (Jul 23, 2011)

MileyCyrus said:


> HBjust finished reading your grow journals great stuff, you really know your stuff. Right now im running RO Lucas Formula with 1ml/gal cal mag at 1.8EC in a DWC. Thinking about switching to Dyna per your results. Right now im run a perpetual system. Spreads out harvest, trimming and cloning.
> 
> What recipe would you recommend for a perpetual system, ie same formula from clone to harvest.


1.8EC is a waste of nutes and you're hurting your yield by feeding that high. Try 1.2EC. In regards to your question, smaller plants wont feed as much as larger plants so unfortunately I don't think it's possible to feed young clones and mature flowering plants the same EC with good results. You'd either burn your clones and get a heavy harvest or you'd have vigorous, healthy clones with a light harvest. If you insist on the perpetual hydro thing, try 0.8 EC for everything. Change your res weekly and possibly top off with nutes and water every other day.


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## MileyCyrus (Jul 24, 2011)

Thanks for the advice homebrewer. I am relatively knew to the game, have 2 cycles under my belt. I do like perpetual bc work is spread out...there is also a consitently biweekly flow, rather than a 2 month bomb. Anyways.. .Do you have a perpetual recipe, like ml's of this and that....Just EC doesn't tell me a whole lot.

I run alot of light like 50w/ft2 for 8 buckets, that may be why my plants can take higher ec's (???). I also start flowering with establish clones that are usually 12" tall. My NL can take 1.8ec lucas without much problem, a little burn here or there usually from EC spike or missed adjustment )laziness. It consistently yields 8oz per plant, with co2 about 10.5oz. My only complaint are buds could be a little more dense, larger calyxes, less leafy and little more sugary. On the other hand my new strain bubba kush looks bright green and healthy for the first 2-3 weeks....then biggest fan leaves start to burn out in the margins and eventually crumble, looks like mag def . It yeilds only like 3-4oz per plant, but the buds are much denser and very very sugary. 

Like I said im pretty new, but EC 1.2 just seems too low. I think EC is totally dependent on strain, environmental conditions (ie light,co2, temp, humidity) and chem ratios.


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## homebrewer (Jul 24, 2011)

MileyCyrus said:


> Like I said im pretty new, but EC 1.2 just seems too low. I think EC is totally dependent on strain, environmental conditions (ie light,co2, temp, humidity) and chem ratios.


You're right, do what works best for you as it sounds like things are going fine.


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## 671mmj (Jul 26, 2011)

homebrewer thanks for the comparisons.

You saved me from blowing way too much of my hard earned $$$. I was gonna order AN.

Ill now be grabbing Dyna-gro products.

I got a question...Im growing in Hempy buckets...Do you think it would work with the Dyna-Roks II or mix it up with some perlite?

Thx again and Jah Bless


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## 671mmj (Jul 26, 2011)

Good info in this thread


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## shnkrmn (Jul 26, 2011)

The Dyna-rok really IS rock and will make your buckets quite heavy. Just use coarse-grain perlite. Dyna-Gro nutrients work very well in hempy buckets though.


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## homebrewer (Jul 26, 2011)

Hey shnkrmn - I just took a peek at your journal where you have some Serious Seeds Chronic growing. Did your strain start from seed or were those cuttings from somewhere? What's your opinion on that strain?


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## shnkrmn (Jul 26, 2011)

I bought seeds from Serious. I really enjoyed growing it from seed and it clones easily. Very large yields and a sweet, fairly mild smoke that won't paralyze you but very enjoyable. As Serious says, it does not do well when topped. Grown in its natural shape, it developed a truly massive central cola. If you top it it's a floppy mess. My biggest criticism of it is mold. Those huge colas aren't so pretty when you have to cut big chunks out of them. I've fixed my humidity issues but, alas, I let my last Chronic mom go a couple months ago. I think the White Russian is a sounder plant; I think you would like it if you haven't tried it. Great yields, no mold problems and, well, you know the parents, I'm sure  I have three beans of that left that I'll be hatching soon along with some Bubblelicious and Critical Sensi Star which are both new to me.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jul 26, 2011)

I plan on getting the russian whenever it comes in stock. Probably pick up some grapegod as well. I notice the Chronic has very little branching as well.


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## homebrewer (Jul 26, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> I bought seeds from Serious. I really enjoyed growing it from seed and it clones easily. Very large yields and a sweet, fairly mild smoke that won't paralyze you but very enjoyable. As Serious says, it does not do well when topped. Grown in its natural shape, it developed a truly massive central cola. If you top it it's a floppy mess. My biggest criticism of it is mold. Those huge colas aren't so pretty when you have to cut big chunks out of them. I've fixed my humidity issues but, alas, I let my last Chronic mom go a couple months ago. I think the White Russian is a sounder plant; I think you would like it if you haven't tried it. Great yields, no mold problems and, well, you know the parents, I'm sure  I have three beans of that left that I'll be hatching soon along with some Bubblelicious and Critical Sensi Star which are both new to me.


I got a high number of females out of my 11 pack, 8 I believe. My one gripe is that the clones of 5 of the females started flowering on me under near 24 hours of light which eliminated the most desirable pheno. It yielded huge, very good resin production with a fairly fragrant sweet/berry aroma. I actually had zero issues with mold as the structure of the buds weren't nearly as dense as my dumpster strain, which is a good thing. Overall though, I found it to be a high quality cash-cropper strain as the average plant yielded great, had relatively low odor, tended to prefer the one main cola as you stated which means you can really pack them in your growing space, and above all the smoke was quality. Like you, I'll probably run it a few times and let the mother go eventually. Comparatively, my Ak47 yields really well too but I prefer the aroma, appearance and effect over the Chronic. I would however recommend the Chronic to anyone looking for high yields and an indica-dominant effect.


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## reverof (Jul 26, 2011)

Homebrewer... you ever used crushed up dolomite lime in your F&D ? Trying to see if its possible and if is positive using it that way vs calmag


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jul 26, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I got a high number of females out of my 11 pack, 8 I believe. My one gripe is that the clones of 5 of the females started flowering on me under near 24 hours of light which eliminated the most desirable pheno. It yielded huge, very good resin production with a fairly fragrant sweet/berry aroma. I actually had zero issues with mold as the structure of the buds weren't nearly as dense as my dumpster strain, which is a good thing. Overall though, I found it to be a high quality cash-cropper strain as the average plant yielded great, had relatively low odor, tended to prefer the one main cola as you stated which means you can really pack them in your growing space, and above all the smoke was quality. Like you, I'll probably run it a few times and let the mother go eventually. Comparatively, my Ak47 yields really well too but I prefer the aroma, appearance and effect over the Chronic. I would however recommend the Chronic to anyone looking for high yields and an indica-dominant effect.



One of my Chronic mother flowered on me under 24/7 light too... I've heard SS has some trouble with that.


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## homebrewer (Jul 26, 2011)

reverof said:


> Homebrewer... you ever used crushed up dolomite lime in your F&D ? Trying to see if its possible and if is positive using it that way vs calmag


I've never had to use calmag in my hydro trays and I even use RO water.


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## homebrewer (Jul 26, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> One of my Chronic mother flowered on me under 24/7 light too... I've heard SS has some trouble with that.


If I remember correctly, one of my AKs did that too but that particular plant would've been the last one I picked regardless of the 'auto flower' tendancy. The Kali mist however was perfect. Don't get me wrong though, I've had nothing but a positive experience with the 33 beans I've grown from Serious Seeds. 100% germ rate, exactly a 60% female to male percentage and multiple plants from each seed pack could be fantastic mothers. It's great when you have 3 females you love out of each pack allowing you to choose the best of the best. I've not had that success with other breeders.


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## reverof (Jul 26, 2011)

ahh ok... for some reason thought I read where you use calmag must of read it wrong.... I picked up my first bottle of Dyna-Gro today to start my F&D later this week, germinating half dozen seeds for it


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jul 26, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> If I remember correctly, one of my AKs did that too but that particular plant would've been the last one I picked regardless of the 'auto flower' tendancy. The Kali mist however was perfect. Don't get me wrong though, I've had nothing but a positive experience with the 33 beans I've grown from Serious Seeds. 100% germ rate, exactly a 60% female to male percentage and multiple plants from each seed pack could be fantastic mothers. It's great when you have 3 females you love out of each pack allowing you to choose the best of the best. I've not had that success with other breeders.


Thats the thing. They are very consistent auto flowering or not. They have seemed very uniform from everything I've seen. If I wasn't happy I wouldn't be planning to buy more from them.


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## shnkrmn (Jul 27, 2011)

You don't use mag-pro either? Because I get early flowering mag deficiency if I don't, using RO. I wonder if your continuous use of grow formula in flowering is the answer. 



homebrewer said:


> I've never had to use calmag in my hydro trays and I even use RO water.


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## drekoushranada (Jul 27, 2011)

Hey HB this thread has been great. I am using the Dyna-Gro line in my system for my first grow and it has been beyond solid. Thanks for the test runs and the knowledge. For a first timer this stuff is a must and very nice on the pockets as well.


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## homebrewer (Jul 27, 2011)

I do use magpro but that's only magnesium, sulfur, N, P and K. The calcium content of the base has been fine for me actually. drekoushranada: Those look good and it's going to get crowded in there! Just keep them healthy and do not push them, they know how to grow . What is up with the coding for posting? I can't separate paragraphs apparently.


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## drekoushranada (Jul 27, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I do use magpro but that's only magnesium, sulfur, N, P and K. The calcium content of the base has been fine for me actually. drekoushranada: Those look good and it's going to get crowded in there! Just keep them healthy and do not push them, they know how to grow . What is up with the coding for posting? I can't separate paragraphs apparently.


Yeah It is getting pretty crowded. The second pic are of them in flower day 10 which I took yesterday. Will it hurt my yeild if I dont remove one of the plants? Mainly one of them in the back.


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## homebrewer (Jul 27, 2011)

drekoushranada said:


> Yeah It is getting pretty crowded. The second pic are of them in flower day 10 which I took yesterday. Will it hurt my yeild if I dont remove one of the plants? Mainly one of them in the back.


I don't think removing a plant will hurt your yield, you'll just get more per plant vs leaving them all in there and getting a little less per plant. As long as your canopy, or in your case foliage, is covering the spread of the light, you should do well either way with the number of plants you have to work with.


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## DankBudzzz (Jul 27, 2011)

do u have a update on the final yield of each of the types of nutes?


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## homebrewer (Jul 28, 2011)

DankBudzzz said:


> do u have a update on the final yield of each of the types of nutes?


 Yes, but i'm waiting on the smoke report for Connoisseur.


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## bookechu (Jul 28, 2011)

Is one teaspoon of grow, bloom, and protekt good all through flower. It brings me to about 1000ppm, with 220-250ppm from the tap when I mix it.


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## homebrewer (Jul 28, 2011)

bookechu said:


> Is one teaspoon of grow, bloom, and protekt good all through flower. It brings me to about 1000ppm, with 220-250ppm from the tap when I mix it.


 It looks like you have a hanna meter or are at least on the .5 conversion as your combination above equals about 2.0 EC. Soil or hydro?


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## reverof (Jul 28, 2011)

During flowering you want to use Just Bloom & protekt, obviously start lower say 400ppm to begin with and up it to about 1200 or whatevfer your plant will take without showing issues. You shouldnt use as much grow during blooms. use about 1/5-1/4 of grow during flowering and up your bloom amount... During bloom you need much less Nitrogen and more P, which is what the bloom formula offers, ading Grow to the mix just gives a little more nitrogen as homebrewer feels bloom is lacking a little N.

Your on the right track though!


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## reverof (Jul 28, 2011)

Homebrewer... you thought about your next test? Looking forward to your next journal, I have learned a lot from you!


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## bookechu (Jul 28, 2011)

I'm in soil and using a blue tds meter that I got off of eBay. So 1 teaspoon of bloom and protekt should be enough?


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## MasterS (Jul 28, 2011)

bookechu, they have a feeding chart PDF on the Dyna-Gro website. Use it as a guide and adjust based on the needs of your plants.


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## reverof (Jul 28, 2011)

If you are in flowering stage...
ad a small amount of Grow (maybe 200ppm), test water with meter, then add your protekt, test water, then use Bloom as much as you can to bring up the reading to 1000-1200


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## medicine21 (Jul 28, 2011)

I vote for Canna Aqua Vega/Flora as the next nute showdown.


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## bookechu (Jul 28, 2011)

I'm at 1000ppm with a teaspoon of all three and my tap water but HB is saying that that is to much and that I'm using the .05 conversion.


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## homebrewer (Jul 28, 2011)

bookechu said:


> I'm in soil and using a blue tds meter that I got off of eBay. So 1 teaspoon of bloom and protekt should be enough?


 If you were using a promix type soil with no food in it, I'd suggest about 1ml of grow and 2mls of bloom and a teaspoon of protekt per gallon. Make sure that much protekt doesn't throw your pH off. Add enough protekt to get to a pH of about 6.5 which could mean only 2mls of protekt, you'll find out soon enough.


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## reverof (Jul 28, 2011)

1000ppm shouldnt be too much if you are flowering stage... just back off the Grow formula and raise it up with Bloom formula.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 28, 2011)

medicine21 said:


> I vote for Canna Aqua Vega/Flora as the next nute showdown.


I'd love to see this as well. I have been told their substra line is excellent for DTW- and seen pics to confirm. I am supposed to use it as a benchmark and will against dyna when I get going myself with the new setup...


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## bookechu (Jul 28, 2011)

Yeah, just looked at the site and I'm using way to much. I'm going to flush and do 2ml of bloom and protekt and continue to throw in the grow when needed. Could this be why my slh has a P deficiency? 8wks today flowering on querkle, slh, jtr, and ww x bb.


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## reverof (Jul 28, 2011)

Hell I would donate for the next test, if there was a way to! I think homebrewers showdowns are some of the best and honest there are. His tests help everyone!


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 28, 2011)

reverof said:


> Hell I would donate for the next test, if there was a way to! I think homebrewers showdowns are some of the best and honest there are. His tests help everyone!


 Absolutely agree... He offsets handfulls of trolls


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## reverof (Jul 28, 2011)

bookechu said:


> Yeah, just looked at the site and I'm using way to much. I'm going to flush and do 2ml of bloom and protekt and continue to throw in the grow when needed. Could this be why my slh has a P deficiency? 8wks today flowering on querkle, slh, jtr, and ww x bb.


Flowering plants need all the P they can get, lack of P will effect harvest... This is why I have stated to UP the amount of Bloom nutes.


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## Encomium (Jul 28, 2011)

reverof said:


> If you are in flowering stage...
> ad a small amount of Grow (maybe 200ppm), test water with meter, then add your protekt, test water, then use Bloom as much as you can to bring up the reading to 1000-1200


The directions explicitly state to add Pro-Tekt first and then add grow/bloom and supplements. I think the reasoning behind adding the Pro-Tekt first is so the other nutrients do not get locked out or something like that. 

Advice is always appreciated but sometimes I wonder if some advice is unsolicited. This is hb's thread is it not?


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## bookechu (Jul 28, 2011)

Encomium said:


> The directions explicitly state to add Pro-Tekt first and then add grow/bloom and supplements. I think the reasoning behind adding the Pro-Tekt first is so the other nutrients do not get locked out or something like that.
> 
> Advice is always appreciated but sometimes I wonder if some advice is unsolicited. This is hb's thread is it not?


 It just says never mix concentrates together....I always do it the way reverof described


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## Encomium (Jul 28, 2011)

bookechu said:


> It just says never mix concentrates together....I always do it the way reverof described


Guess I shouldn't have stated that the directions are "explicit" without actually checking the bottle again. I could swear that on the bottle of Pro-Tekt it states to add it first to your water and then start adding other nutrients as the silica in Pro-Tekt can precipitate out.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jul 28, 2011)

Encomium said:


> The directions explicitly state to add Pro-Tekt first and then add grow/bloom and supplements. I think the reasoning behind adding the Pro-Tekt first is so the other nutrients do not get locked out or something like that.
> 
> Advice is always appreciated but sometimes I wonder if some advice is unsolicited. This is hb's thread is it not?


If you don't add protekt first you will get a chemical reaction that turns (whatever) into crystals. That's what I've heard anyway.


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## reverof (Jul 28, 2011)

If you are putting the nutes in before protekt in a say 1 gal jug, yes it can cause some crystalization, if your ppm is too high... I just did a test and it took 650ppm of grow prior to protekt being added to solution to see the crystallization effect. So that statement is not true that you MUST add protekt first... Now I would never add my main nute before protekt, as my recommendation was to add a small amount of grow (to add alittle N) then protekt then the rest bloom... now sure you can add protekt first and avoid any issue whatsoever but my advice was solid. 

As far as this being Homebrewers thread, yesyou are correct, but the nice thing about an open forum is that everyone helps everyone... His test was concluded and with the help of a few others including Homebrewer, we are keeping the thread going with conversations including helping others use Dyna-Gro products and others if thats what they wish.

Instead of coming off as a troll looking to start something, making a statement such as... "I would recommend adding Protekt prior to any other nute as it is known to cause some issues of sort" would have been adding to this thread and present conversation, instead you pop off and attempt to make a statement for which you do not even understand the actual reasoning behind your statement.

If at anytime I overstep I expect the thread owner to say something to me, more respectfully in private, but will except it publicly. And If I am incorrect and corrected then my information in the future will be given in a correct form. This is how we all learn and continue to build off each other, making what we do better for everyone.


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## MasterS (Jul 28, 2011)

*accept.. Also, I understand what prompted such a post. Did I miss something?


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## bookechu (Jul 28, 2011)

Any particular reason why you add protekt?


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## homebrewer (Jul 28, 2011)

reverof said:


> So that statement is not true that you MUST add protekt first...


 Read the bottom of the pdf...

http://www.hhydro.com/files/Instructions/dynagro.pdf

Another link with notes at the bottom....

http://www.growsmarthydroponics.com/assets/images/feedingschedules/DynaGroFeedingChart-hydro.pdf


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## reverof (Jul 28, 2011)

Homebrewer... i accept that response 
I am not sure exactly what their reasoning is, as I did do a small test and with it... maybe more of a precaution so that people dont put all their nutes in then add protekt which would could cause a problem *shrug* Will remember that for future reference and use. Thanks!


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## bookechu (Jul 28, 2011)

I read the back of the protekt bottle. How would I apply Epsom salt instead of mag-pro?


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## Encomium (Jul 28, 2011)

reverof said:


> If you are putting the nutes in before protekt in a say 1 gal jug, yes it can cause some crystalization, if your ppm is too high... I just did a test and it took 650ppm of grow prior to protekt being added to solution to see the crystallization effect. So that statement is not true that you MUST add protekt first... Now I would never add my main nute before protekt, as my recommendation was to add a small amount of grow (to add alittle N) then protekt then the rest bloom... now sure you can add protekt first and avoid any issue whatsoever but my advice was solid.
> 
> As far as this being Homebrewers thread, yesyou are correct, but the nice thing about an open forum is that everyone helps everyone... His test was concluded and with the help of a few others including Homebrewer, we are keeping the thread going with conversations including helping others use Dyna-Gro products and others if thats what they wish.
> 
> ...


Well apologies if you think I'm trying to "troll" you. I am not trolling but found issue with random advice given that (at least I thought) was not only wrong but detrimental to a nutrient solution: That adding grow/bloom formula into your water prior to pro-tekt is OK.


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## burrr (Jul 28, 2011)

Rev, you are throwing out some real sloppy advice bro!

1000 ppm on a .5 conversion will fuck things royally
Adding any high PH solution straight to your res will cause the white crystals to fall out of solution. Dilute your PH up, or Protek before adding to the res.
It is not necessary to add grow mix during flowering, only if your strain needs the extra N do you need to add it.


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## burrr (Jul 28, 2011)

bookechu said:


> Any particular reason why you add protekt?


It occurs naturally in soil, but is lacking in hydro. It strengthens plant cell walls, adds heat and bug resistance.


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## burrr (Jul 28, 2011)

reverof said:


> Flowering plants need all the P they can get, lack of P will effect harvest... This is why I have stated to UP the amount of Bloom nutes.


No, they need just the right amount of P


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## burrr (Jul 28, 2011)

reverof said:


> During flowering you want to use Just Grow & protekt, obviously start lower say 400ppm to begin with and up it to about 1200 or whatevfer your plant will take without showing issues.
> You shouldnt use as much grow during blooms. use about 1/5-1/4 of grow during flowering and up your bloom amount... During bloom you need much less Nitrogen and more P, which is what the bloom formula offers, ading Grow to the mix just gives a little more nitrogen as homebrewer feels bloom is lacking a little N.
> 
> Your on the right track though!



This needs a little editing, Rev


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## burrr (Jul 28, 2011)

reverof said:


> ahh ok... for some reason thought I read where you use calmag must of read it wrong.... I picked up my first bottle of Dyna-Gro today to start my F&D later this week, germinating half dozen seeds for it


Just picked up your first bottle, yet your giving advice?


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## reverof (Jul 28, 2011)

burrr said:


> This needs a little editing, Rev


Ahh yes, so edited it is...


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## reverof (Jul 28, 2011)

burrr said:


> Just picked up your first bottle, yet your giving advice?


Sure, as giving a little advice from information gathered by many using the product, basically passing the info on thats already been posted. btw when it comes down to it, nutes are nutes, taking the knowledge I have from using other nutes, and the information learned here using the specific nute makes common sense.


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## burrr (Jul 28, 2011)

reverof said:


> Sure, as giving a little advice from information gathered by many using the product, basically passing the info on thats already been posted. btw when it comes down to it, nutes are nutes, taking the knowledge I have from using other nutes, and the information learned here using the specific nute makes common sense.


 But when you suggest things like PPM levels in the 1000's, thats real bad info. dynagro will burn the shit out of weed plants at those levels.


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## reverof (Jul 28, 2011)

I said level of 1000ppm shouldnt be too much... 5mls of Bloom, 1mls of Grow, 1mls of protekt and a touch of calmag and 1 gallon of water is at 960ppm, with water starting about 70ppm

*** Error Fix ***
The above wasnt 960 was 860


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## burrr (Jul 28, 2011)

PPM numbers are misleading, that is why Homebrewer's thread discussed nute levels in EC numbers which are consistent. If I ran 1000 ppm, I would be at an EC of 2.0, and burn the shit out my plants. I've run dynagro at high, medium, and low nute levels. I like an EC of .8 for most of my grow cycle.
This is not a guess, or what I read somewhere, or what worked with some other brand.


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## bookechu (Jul 28, 2011)

I Just watered my plants. I added some blackstrap which brought it to 1000ppm but the nutes and water were at about 680ppm (250 from water), is this still fine?


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## nursejason (Jul 28, 2011)

Alright being a newbie and wanting to try dyna grow at suggestion of son of owner (personal friend) I picked up 2 gallons of liquid bloom yesterday and pro tek, gave 1/2 teaspoon of pro tek today per gal due to warning of chemical reaction/clumping warning of mixing with bloom, I am in soil fox farm, ocean frog, perlite in smart pots and outdoor. This is my second grow and trying some new suggestions, under cleaning of small branches. Gave Neem oil spray a few days ago, pro tek today, roughly about 2 wks from flower and read with the bloom I could start now which will help put into flower, been just giving RO and don't have digital PH tester but my RO appears to be an even 6, soil maintaining at roughly 6.5. My plan is to pro tek one day, bloom next per suggested directions and start adding sweetener with bloom in a couple of weeks. I am also giving organic tea on water/pro tek days and plan to do at least a 5 day flush. Son of owner told me I should add mag but I don't think I need it. I am open to suggestions/critique if my plan is bad in any way shape or form. Lastly I have a street light issue which on my first grow appeared to limit main cola growth so I bought 5ft x 50 ft shading and lined fence to help with more darkness during flower. Last year I did biobizz, humbolt bud swell, and earth juice and for first time had pretty decent results. I hope to do better this year, also looking forward to final smoke/yield report. Thanks to HB for his insight and all others with much more grow time under their belt, if this goes well I may jump up to indoor but think 3 decent outdoor grows is good before I get into the more technical indoor work, thanks for listening.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 28, 2011)

I probably should keep my mouth shut too.. But you both sound like reasonable people, and both only have intentions to help. So leave it at that. The maufacturer's directions say to add it first- good. A test to visually inspect for precipitation- done. Ok, actually I learned something here through the banter. The only question is if the precipitation is the only issue. And even if so, most people tend to run more than 650ppm, so the manufacturer's advice is wise for most applications... Nothing to not get along about anymore, there is alot worse people out there to call a troll... And we all make little mistakes


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## smokeymcpotterton (Jul 28, 2011)

I have a quick question: You had mentioned that you mix the nutrients and use both grow/bloom together, do you actually physically mix the two in their own new container, or just put a little of oen then the other into your res each time you prepare a solution? Thanks!

Also for the next 'showdown', my vote would be towards House and Garden vs DynaGro


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jul 29, 2011)

smokeymcpotterton said:


> I have a quick question: You had mentioned that you mix the nutrients and use both grow/bloom together, do you actually physically mix the two in their own new container, or just put a little of oen then the other into your res each time you prepare a solution? Thanks!
> 
> Also for the next 'showdown', my vote would be towards House and Garden vs DynaGro


You just want to make sure it is diluted with water before you start mixing chemicals. Some chemicals if mixed will create fumes that can kill you. This applies to kitchen cleaning supplies as well. You just don't want to be mixing random chemicals.


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## homebrewer (Jul 29, 2011)

smokeymcpotterton said:


> I have a quick question: You had mentioned that you mix the nutrients and use both grow/bloom together, do you actually physically mix the two in their own new container, or just put a little of oen then the other into your res each time you prepare a solution? Thanks!


 The grow and bloom formula are the same other than the NPK values so it's ok to mix those in their concentrated form. That's what I do for my dirt plants. In regards to grow and bloom in flower for hydro, I usually add what I need to my measuring glass and dump them in at the same time. Protekt first, base nutes, then magpro, mixing in between each.




> Also for the next 'showdown', my vote would be towards House and Garden vs DynaGro


What I was hoping would happen in this test is that the results would reflect what the labels indicate as far as NPK ratios are concerned. You should be able to look at a label and know whether it will work well or not and in Connoisseur's case, a 1-1-2 ratio told me that it couldn't compete with a 1-3-2 ratio (..again, still waiting on my smoke reports in order to post the final results). My point is; one doesn't need to test every brand of fertilizer out there in order to determine it's worth. H&G also offers (in my opinion) a poor ratio for flower just like Connoisseur and aside from all the other categories that make a great fertilizer, my guess is H&G would produce smaller, leafier yields compared to DynaGro.


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## reverof (Jul 29, 2011)

I am just curious what your next test will be, don't care if it is nute vs nute or maximizing another strain, or hell stuffing 10 plants into your F&D and seeing what happens... I just enjoy the information you make available via your tests 

Again I look forward to seeing the next!


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## burrr (Jul 29, 2011)

reverof said:


> I am just curious what your next test will be, don't care if it is nute vs nute or maximizing another strain, or hell stuffing 10 plants into your F&D and seeing what happens... I just enjoy the information you make available via your tests
> 
> Again I look forward to seeing the next!


Agreed! Lots of great info comes out of every one of of your Journals Homebrewer.


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## nursejason (Jul 31, 2011)

Upon reading and catching mixing warnings I gave 1/2 tsp per gal of protek and 1/2 tsp of bloom following day, mixed 1/2 tsp of protek/gal shook gal container and then added 1/2 tsp/gal of bloom with no reaction today. Label says to feed every day both protek and bloom making sure to mix protek first and as long as no obvious problems this is my current plan. Again I am in soil outdoor, only on my 2nd grow and just want to be careful due to I am a total newbie. I am in pre-flower now and read this will help put into flower, my next question is should I pick up some mag or will everything be fine feeding everyday on this schedule until harvest?? Lastly any thoughts on adding earth juice sweetener in a couple of weeks? Thank you for your time and expertise for perhaps an overly cautious newbie.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 31, 2011)

Hey homebrewer what page is your final result/comparison


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## homebrewer (Jul 31, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey homebrewer what page is your final result/comparison


It's not posted yet as I still don't have the smoke reports.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 31, 2011)

Ok homebrewer


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## maphisto (Aug 1, 2011)

WAS UP H/B!! hope all is well with ya. got any mew exciting projects going on? how did that chronic taste/yield will she be a keeper?


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## homebrewer (Aug 1, 2011)

maphisto said:


> WAS UP H/B!! hope all is well with ya. got any mew exciting projects going on? how did that chronic taste/yield will she be a keeper?


 I think I commented on the chronic a few pages back. I also have a breeding project going on so maybe in a few months or so, I'll post something about that.


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## MasterS (Aug 1, 2011)

Beautiful, I'm sure you'll continue doing great on your endeavors.


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## maphisto (Aug 1, 2011)

what ya breeding hb?


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## fallinprince (Aug 1, 2011)

Thats epic if you create something beautiful i would LOVE to be allowed to grow it. I really hope that i misread that post and that you will continue to throw up grows journals, in the mean time until the breeding project comes out

P.s. cant wait for the final results.


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## tony1960 (Aug 4, 2011)

Hey all and H/B, I made the switch to DG a month ago now. Using both Bloom and Grow. In veg, I'm running grow at about 1/2 strength and the clones are doing great. In flowering with bloom everything is looking very good and comparable to when I was running Advanced Sensi 2part but at less than 1/2 the cost.

I guess my only surprise is how acidic the bloom formula is. I find I have to use what seems to be a lot of "PH UP" to bring the mix up into the desired value. But once it's there, then it seems to drift back into the acidic range again after a couple of days. This is the opposite of any experience that I've had with Ionic or Advanced where they would drift to the alkaline range gradually.

Both of the shops where I go will gladly order DG for me but do not keep much of it around on the shelves. One said very few use it, the other told me it's and "old school" nute. But I don't mind using whatever gives me solid results and saves me money.

I guess my final observation about DG is that it seems to "salt out" much less than Ionic by comparison. Bottom line is that I like the stuff. 

My two cents worth, Tony


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## fallinprince (Aug 4, 2011)

get Pro-tekt it will solve some of the drift or even the need to PH at all. typically i add pro-tekt MIX WELL then add bloom or grow then check my ph and its almost always between 5.5 - 5.8 Im using R/O water from those 25cent per gallon dispensers 

but yes i do seem to use more ph up than ph down


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## homebrewer (Aug 4, 2011)

I've also found that protekt does a great job of balancing the pH of the water, whether it's tap or RO. If you're not using protekt, I'd highly recommend it to stabilize that pH.



maphisto said:


> what ya breeding hb?


The parent plants are fantastic and both exhibit traits that I'd like to showcase in a final mother. I have a handful of plants (...along with a bunch of ungerminated beans) right now that are starting to show sex so once they're all cloned , I'll flower and see what I'm working with. A possible back cross to one of the parents could be in the future if I don't quite accomplish what I'm looking for. Or, I'll germ more beans.


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## nursejason (Aug 4, 2011)

I went back through this entire thread last night and today, made some adjustments, picked up some cal/mag today due to I am using RO although I think I caught not as much of an issue in soil, could be wrong but will monitor my progress, and going to be on a feed/water/feed schedule, also caught this might be HB's last journal due to newbies upsetting, I hope sincerely I was not out of line in any way and gained tons of knowledge from this thread. I am a little nervous about overnuting and am just going to stick with the protek, bloom, and cal/mag, and also the organic tea through entire flower cycle, I would post pics of my progress but not sure how to do so from phone. Again thank you so much for your time and expertise you have been extremely helpful to me.


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## Trichy Bastard (Aug 5, 2011)

nursejason said:


> I went back through this entire thread last night and today, made some adjustments, picked up some cal/mag today due to I am using RO although I think I caught not as much of an issue in soil, could be wrong but will monitor my progress, and going to be on a feed/water/feed schedule, also caught this might be HB's last journal due to newbies upsetting, I hope sincerely I was not out of line in any way and gained tons of knowledge from this thread. I am a little nervous about overnuting and am just going to stick with the protek, bloom, and cal/mag, and also the organic tea through entire flower cycle, I would post pics of my progress but not sure how to do so from phone. Again thank you so much for your time and expertise you have been extremely helpful to me.


The most respectible and best thing you could have done is read the whole thread. I am sure it has answered most of your questions as it did mine. It's such a good read anyway the way HB does his comparisons and standardizations alot more professional than most. Good Luck NurseJason...


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## nursejason (Aug 5, 2011)

Trichy Bastard said:


> The most respectible and best thing you could have done is read the whole thread. I am sure it has answered most of your questions as it did mine. It's such a good read anyway the way HB does his comparisons and standardizations alot more professional than most. Good Luck NurseJason...


My first post ever on this forum was this thread and initially I probably read at least 50% but when it got somewhat technical with the hydro I bypassed some, not the last time I read everything and found it to be very helpful. I am just glad there are people out there like HB willing to impart their knowledge and experience, after all I believe if you want quality you have to devote time and research, and love to the ladies, just like in life you usually get what you give. Thanks again for a wonderful thread/post, checking back for final report but being patient. I am not even clear how to sub to this, all good.


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## Trichy Bastard (Aug 5, 2011)

Cool man.. the line across the top of the forum has a tab called "thread tools" sometimes it's hard to read, but "subscribe to this thread" is in there. What makes it easy is in your general settings you can make it so any thread you post in it will automatically sub you too- I like that the best and can just unsub as necessary...


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## rosecitypapa (Aug 5, 2011)

tony1960 said:


> I guess my only surprise is how acidic the bloom formula is. I find I have to use what seems to be a lot of "PH UP" to bring the mix up into the desired value. But once it's there, then it seems to drift back into the acidic range again after a couple of days. This is the opposite of any experience that I've had with Ionic or Advanced where they would drift to the alkaline range gradually.


I have the same issue with pH dropping over time in my rdwc and have to adjust my pH daily. 

In bloom, my thoughts are that the plants are taking in lot's of potassium K(+) ion so to compensate are contributing OH(-) ion to the solution to maintain it's chemical equilibrium. Thus over time the pH is drifting down.

However, the plants in veg are producing the same pH drops (not a quickly). This is puzzling for in my understanding the plant is consuming lots of nitrate N03(-) ion. This would have the plants contributing H30(+) thus causing to pH to drift up.

I've attributed it to two factors: 
1) the use of beneficial bacteria and fungi tea's since they can acidify the nutrient solution. 
2) the use of charcoal in my growing medium, it's use is known to acidify solutions.

As for pH stability, rarely do I experience it. (yes I do use Pro-Tek)


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## nursejason (Aug 5, 2011)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Cool man.. the line across the top of the forum has a tab called "thread tools" sometimes it's hard to read, but "subscribe to this thread" is in there. What makes it easy is in your general settings you can make it so any thread you post in it will automatically sub you too- I like that the best and can just unsub as necessary...


Thanks Trichy, done.


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## fallinprince (Aug 5, 2011)

View attachment 1721519View attachment 1721520

My ph is 5.8
Tds is a little low at 400
temps are 70-75
R/o water
and only the largest plant seems to have any problems

any ideas? this seems to have manifested in two days im planning a res change because i have no idea why only one has this problem....the plant problem guides ive been reading seem to point me a calcium def but idk


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## homebrewer (Aug 5, 2011)

Prince, I'm thinking magnesium deficiency. I'm not that great at diagnosing deficiencies as I don't think a few bad leaves here and there will kill a harvest, but maybe some calmag or magpro could correct that? I think it's important to look at the plant as a whole while noticing individual leaf health at the same time. Vigorous growth, healthy flowers, and strong aromas point to a plant that is doing pretty well. You appear to be in veg at the moment so keep an eye on that leaf thing. To be honest, I've never had an issue in veg and I use just DG grow and protekt. I never saw an issue with GH either.


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## fallinprince (Aug 5, 2011)

yeah me and trichy agreed it was probably mag def. thx you were the first person i thought to ask with as many grows as you have had. thinking really hard i might have skimped a little on the mag-pro. But yes im in veg and didnt expect to see any issues cuz i didnt have a single coloring issue the whole time i had the last plants until they died from root rot.

regardless of the crazy color issue that plant is still growing at a tremendous rate(much faster than either of the previous plants b4 that died) and much faster than any of the other plants in the room. And yes i still have a crazy strong aroma that w/o having a carbon filter is beginning to make the house smell even though its just in veg

I reset my nutrients and added a good amount of mag-pro. im going to wait a few days to ensure the problem stopped getting worse and then clip the damaged leaves the rest of the leaves on that plant but the two i took a picture of are normal like you see at the right of the second picture


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## MasterS (Aug 6, 2011)

homebrewer you need some new testers. It doesn't normally take this long, everything going well?


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## homebrewer (Aug 6, 2011)

I just sampled the Ak47 grown with Connoisseur last night along with the Chronic pheno that i've decided to keep. Below is the most sativa dominant Chronic that was in my seed pack and at 75 days, I was finally comfortable harvesting her. My average Chronic plant was lower in odor but this lady had a really nice mixture of bread and pineapple, sort of similar to the Ak47. She yields really well, grows lots of tightly packed flowers in a small space but my one complaint is that she's a little leafy. I can only describe the buzz as a more sativa dominant indica buzz, meaning there is an undeniable body buzz with motivation to do stuff. I can't say that I've had a strain like this before and I was pretty impressed. Being a sativa guy, I like varieties that are more social and avoid strains that make me tired. This pheno would be an excellent pain relieving daytime medicine. After my sampling, I got a lot done in my plant rooms last night whereas the more traditional Chronic pheno tended to drag me down a bit. I'll reserve my comments about Connoisseur's Ak47 until I hear back from my apparently busy testers . My apologies.


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## maphisto (Aug 6, 2011)

good stuff H\B as always. keep up the good work.I have a quick question have you ever messed with Kush's pr have you always stayed with reputable seed banks like serious.can't wait till you show us the seed project.can i take a guess on what your bseeds are im gonna say kalimist x dumpster x ak 47? anyone else got a guess?


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## Trichy Bastard (Aug 7, 2011)

MasterS said:


> homebrewer you need some new testers. It doesn't normally take this long, everything going well?


It's THAT GOOD! lol...


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## homebrewer (Aug 7, 2011)

*Dyna-Gro vs Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur final writeup *

*** *Cliffs notes*: _I paid more for lower yields and more daily work_ ***



The reason for this comparison was to take an honest look at one of the most over-hyped and most expensive fertilizers currently on the market and see if its performance justifies either. During my last comparison (* Dyna-Gro vs General Hydroponics (Dumpster grow)* ), I was so impressed with my first run with DG that I not only switched the fertilizer that I used for my flood and drain system, but I also replaced the Botanicare products that I was using in the dirt. Just like last time, I wasnt looking to make a switch away from my current nutrient brand but if Connoisseurs performance justified its price, I was of course open to improvement. 

Ive always wanted to try an expensive, cannabis specific nutrient like Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur but aside from their price, the one thing that made me hesitant to conduct a test was their NPK ratios and overall mineral content. According to the guaranteed analysis on the backs of the bottles and on their website, Connoisseur only supplies 7 minerals whereas DynaGro supplies 16. For flower, DynaGro offers roughly a 1-3-2 NPK ratio as I use it and Connoisseur offers a 1-1-2. Personally Id think a 1-1-2 would make a better veg ratio than a flower ratio but according the PhDs and tissue samples over at AN, they say fertilizers today contain too much phosphorus and not enough potassium. 

In this test, the 1-1-2 ratio resulted in smaller yields than I have previously seen with GH and DynaGro and the yield that I did get was leafy and lacked density. I dont know if AN purposely supplied a poor NPK ratio as to encourage the purchase of their expensive boosters or they genuinely believe in their choice to under-supply phosphorus during the flowering cycle. Either way, the yield results are below and are exactly what I expected.

In addition to the smaller yields, the visual health of the plants started to decline around day 40 and I believe that this is due to supplying too much nitrogen during the last third of the flowering cycle. When I use the DynaGro grow and bloom in flower, I use more grow in the first third of flower because the plants are creating leaves and branches. As the flowering period progresses, I cut back the grow because they simply dont need that much nitrogen to maintain healthy, green leaves. With Connoisseurs 2 part formula, you have no choice but to oversupply nitrogen and undersupply phosphorus late in flower which for me resulted in leaf curl, margin burn, leafy flowers and lower flower density.


*What I initially liked about Connoisseur:*

There isnt a whole lot that I liked about Connoisseur. It comes in two parts and neither part is cheap. Separately, both mix fine with water and part A has a really attractive candied apple color. When mixed in the res, the res stays crystal clear and the lack of salt buildup in the medium over an entire grow cycle is very desirable. When adjusting the pH, it didnt take very much up or down to get to an optimal range. Also, the nutrient concentration levels of Connoisseur is about average based on other hydroponic fertilizers that Ive used so I give them a little credit for not selling an overly watered-down product.

*PH Stability:*

Connoisseurs pH stability is simply not very good. I consistently had to make several adjustments per week as I was using it in RO water and Id say that the GH 3 part performed just as well in this category. There isnt a day that goes by where Im not in my veg or flower room so on a small scale, the lack of pH stability with Connoisseur might not be an issue for some. However, when running multiple reservoirs, it becomes tedious and time consuming to pH all of them and skipping this step is of course a better scenario. Comparatively, DynaGros pH stability is about as good as it gets. Sometimes I need to do an initial adjustment at res change time. Other times, I can go weeks without touching my pH Up or Down bottles. DynaGros pH stability is honestly so good that a competing brand could only be equal in their performance.

*Price:*

Connoisseur is expensive at a total cost of $170 for 1 gallon of part A & B. The other thing to note is that part A and B are only used for flowering so if you need to veg some plants, youre making another trip to the hydro store for 2 more bottles. DynaGro on the other hand has a grow and a bloom formula which costs roughly $100 total for a gallon of each and thats all you need to take plants from seed to harvest. Fewer bottles to work with at a lower cost is something that I really like and DynaGro. 

Comparatively with no boosters and given the same feeding levels, Connoisseur costs me around 128% more than DynaGro ($32 vs $14) for a single flowering cycle. Factor in vegging and Advanced Nutrients cost only goes up. In case youre curious, the GenHydro 3 part would cost close to $19 for a single flowering cycle or only 35% more than DynaGro. 


*Yield:*

The final yield of this 600 watt grow using Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur was 450 grams or about 1 pound. Based on the average yield of my last 5 grows with AK47, this is a decrease of 20% as compared to DynaGro (AK47 with DynaGro usually yields around 20 ounces). The issue with this final yield number is that just over 2 ounces of the 450gram yield had such poor density that Ill either have to cook with it or process it in another way. Ive never had an issue with poor bud density before but the lower buds on the plants were leafy, airy, and unsmokeable. Im still calling the yield 450 grams but only about 13.8 ounces will be donated to patients, or about 31% less than normal. 

As early as day 15, I could tell DynaGro was probably going to out-yield Connoisseur so I even implemented a few different bloom boosters as to emulate what the average AN user might be giving their plants. I started with KoolBloom and even switched to Hydroplex in case Koolbloom was bumping the potassium content up too much.

Another thing to note about the yield is that my AK47 strain when grown with DynaGro almost ALWAYS out-yields my Dumpster strain. My first run ever with DyanGro and Dumpster yielded 17.2 ounces which is 7% more than the AK47 in this grow. Had I chosen my Dumpster strain for this grow, the yields would be even smaller than the 450 grams that I yielded this round. 

Another side note: the GenHydro 3 part would have also out-yielded Connoisseur with average yields around 17 ounces with AK47 and not to mention better density from top to bottom. 


*Cost per Ounce: *

The cost per ounce measure is a metric that factors in everything from the price you pay at the hydro store to the concentration levels of your given fertilizer. Looking solely at fertilizer cost here, Connoisseur is 3 times more expensive than DynaGro as it costs $2 an ounce with Connoisseur vs about 70 cents per ounce with DynaGro. Just to throw another brand in there, GH is around $1.11 per ounce. 

Why am I making such a big deal about cost and the number of bottles needed to grow healthy plants? I dont like making trips to the hydro store. I dont like using 6 watery products throughout the grow cycle that all run out at different times which calls for multiple trips per month to the grow store. I like buying a highly concentrated fertilizer knowing that it will last a very long time and that Im not paying for a company's marketing budget every time Im buying fertilizer. 

*Quality:*

During this grow, Id say resin production was pretty close between the two fertilizer brands. After the excessively long trim job, Connoisseur grew a good looking product with the only visual and tactile difference being the lower density flowers as compared to DynaGro. My personal opinion was that at its best, the Ak47 grown with Connoisseur was only _as_ good as the product grown with DynaGro. In no way was the effect more potent or longer lasting. I will say that the flavor was a little blander than Im used to but the smoke was also smoother than I was used to. Now Im not going to pretend like my sampling was objective and blind like it is with my testers, but these were just _my_ impressions. Based on the smoke reports from my blind testers, they actually thought that the 2 samples were indistinguishable from one another. So with the cost-per-ounce being 3 times greater with Connoisseur as compared to DynaGro, the medicine was only equal in quality at best. 

*In summation...

*There is really nothing that I liked about Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur except for the low salt build-up in the medium (which is as good as DynaGros lack of salt buildup) and the color of part A. Connoisseur is expensive, the pH isnt stable, it grows excessively leafy flowers as compared to DynaGro, it yields lower than the GH 3 part and DynaGro, the yield that you do get lacks density but the quality and potency is there. So with all of Advanced Nutrients hype on their website, what exactly is the consumer paying for? At the end of the day, Connoisseur is just a fertilizer and there is nothing magical about it. Well, fertilizer in and of itself is a little magical in my opinion. But magical in the factual scientific sense, not magical like Harry Potter which is what Advanced Nutrients would like you to believe.


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## maphisto (Aug 7, 2011)

Thank's H/B as always YOU deliver the goods.You should send this off to FAT MIKE but he probably wont answer back only because ya exposed him.like ya said before A/N is for newbies or people who dont know.


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 7, 2011)

awesome test and writeup +rep


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## lunchbox421 (Aug 7, 2011)

Nice write-up and great job! Thanks for taking the time to do this for the community. 

I picked up a fresh gallon of bloom and grow as well as some magpro since I use RO. Mixed a batch for my cantaloupes since they were yellowing a bit, 2ml grow, 2ml bloom and 3ml protekt ph sat at 6.2 and an EC of .80. Damn simple if you ask me. So once again thank you for dispensing some knowledge here and hopefully it'll open others' eyes to the fact that it's what's on the back of the bottle that counts. 

What'd you settle on as far as ratios go on the tables during flower? See any benefit of the floralicious plus, solely aesthetic?

Thanks again and be safe.


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## fallinprince (Aug 7, 2011)

that is an amazingly complete write up i especially enjoyed that you used GH in there as well. subjective taste test aside you did give it the benefit of the doubt in every way

send this to big mike and he will probably mail you the whole line and ask why you didnt use everything they offer for the 1000$ it would take just to buy ferts


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## homebrewer (Aug 7, 2011)

lunchbox421 said:


> What'd you settle on as far as ratios go on the tables during flower?


I have a tray of AKs going right now where I started giving them only bloom and protekt from week 4 until now (which is basically harvest). So in that case, it's a 1-4-2 ratio and the plants aren't going N deficient like I remember my Dumpster strain did. It's all about finding that balance of what makes your plants perform best in your environment which of course takes some trail and error. Burr back on page 37 feeds differently than I do and has some siiiiiiiick looking plants. I bet that turned out to be some fantastic stuff. Burr, how about an update? 



> See any benefit of the floralicious plus, solely aesthetic?


Floralicious plus is something that I've found increases aroma and resin production, _maybe_ flavor as well? It's up to the individual as to whether they want to spend the money on it as it costs like $4 per flowering cycle. I like it and am going to run some liquid karma next to it soon to see how it does in hydro. I only used it in dirt back when I used Botanicare. It doesn't smell as potent or as concentrated as floralicious plus or floralicious bloom but it has some similar stuff it in. Personally I love the mineral based fertilizers for their sheer performace but also enjoy an organic-ish additive as long as it doesn't cause issues.


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## Trichy Bastard (Aug 8, 2011)

Once again, this has been one of the most professional and informative threads out there. I wish I could do more to thank you than just a rep- but that's the best I can do on here man... Thanks so much. I'm not trying to give you a job if you don't want it, but I wonder if you ever decided to do another comparison in the future, perhaps a poll to help decide what the new competing brand would be might be interesting? Then again, you're doing all the work and are ultimately responsible for the outcome, so perhaps you should just kick back and enjoy your dynagrows, knowing you are using the most ideal product for yourself... You're one of the best contributors to this forum in my opinion, and I really hope you chose to continue to keep us company here.


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## surphin (Aug 8, 2011)

Awesome job HB! Thanks again for a another good comparison, and for spending the money and time to do the comparison. I'm sure your efforts will save many others from wasting their money and time. Thanks.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 8, 2011)

Awsome rite up HB hope to see more of them HR


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## burrr (Aug 8, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Burr back on page 37 feeds differently than I do and has some siiiiiiiick looking plants. I bet that turned out to be some fantastic stuff. Burr, how about an update?


The final product is down right awesome! It's curing in mason jars and getting better every day. I'm still rolling with the same strain, and .8 EC and I could not be happier. My last batch of 3 started off under a MH 600 for a couple weeks, as well as bloom mix only. This is giving me a perfect canopy, and tight internode space. Less still makes more!!!!


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## RogueToker (Aug 8, 2011)

I just finished reading this thread from page 1 to 50 and feel like I've learned a lot (thanks homebrew). I just recently bought the AN Sensi line along with some of their supplements, which I know aren't as expensive as the AN line you used in this comparison. Considering the price difference, would you say the Sensi 2 part line is still completely overpriced compared to Dyna-Gro?


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## medicolas (Aug 8, 2011)

Nice! Thank you very much for that! I just did a side by side on Big Bud vs. Awesome Blossom and found no measurable difference. Maybe if you used AN full line up it might make a small difference, but what would the cost difference be then? Good lord those guy's are on crack in Canada!

This leaves me with no other choice but to say Fuck Big Mike Stromentus!
please sing along with me.....

Blame Canada
Blame Canada
With all their beady little eyes
And flapping heads so full of lies
Blame Canada
Blame Can... a... da.......
They're not even a real country any way!


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 8, 2011)

medicolas said:


> Nice! Thank you very much for that! I just did a side by side on Big Bud vs. Awesome Blossom and found no measurable difference. Maybe if you used AN full line up it might make a small difference, but what would the cost difference be then? Good lord those guy's are on crack in Canada!
> 
> This leaves me with no other choice but to say Fuck Big Mike Stromentus!
> please sing along with me.....
> ...


so amazing


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## homebrewer (Aug 8, 2011)

RogueToker said:


> I just finished reading this thread from page 1 to 50 and feel like I've learned a lot (thanks homebrew). I just recently bought the AN Sensi line along with some of their supplements, which I know aren't as expensive as the AN line you used in this comparison. Considering the price difference, would you say the Sensi 2 part line is still completely overpriced compared to Dyna-Gro?


The sensi line is about $60 each according to amazon which isn't much more than I pay for DG locally. The sensi line is still giving you the same NPK ratio as Connoisseur so you can probably expect the same performance out of it, which is just ok. If someone held a gun to my head and made me buy AN base nutes, I'd go with their 3-part that they copied off of GH. At least there you can achieve something like a 1-2-2 NPK ratio just with base nutes alone. Add a touch of hydroplex or magpro which both match up well with the base nute NPK and your yields should only improve. 

I'm really not as frugal as I come across on here with the cost of fertilizers. I just prefer to be sold on a fertilizer by it's performance, not what the marketing department comes up with. 





> *medicolas *
> Nice! Thank you very much for that! I just did a side by side on Big Bud vs. Awesome Blossom and found no measurable difference. Maybe if you used AN full line up it might make a small difference, but what would the cost difference be then?


Feeding is a balancing act. I could have used their full lineup but after base nutes and the 'boosters' I was using, there is no room for anything else. AN is just giving it's users a less than ideal starting point which I don't think can be corrected by any amount of boosters.


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## RogueToker (Aug 8, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> The sensi line is about $60 each according to amazon which isn't much more than I pay for DG locally. The sensi line is still giving you the same NPK ratio as Connoisseur so you can probably expect the same performance out of it, which is just ok. If someone held a gun to my head and made me buy AN base nutes, I'd go with their 3-part that they copied off of GH. At least there you can achieve something like a 1-2-2 NPK ratio just with base nutes alone. Add a touch of hydroplex or magpro which both match up well with the base nute NPK and your yields should only improve.
> 
> I'm really not as frugal as I come across on here with the cost of fertilizers. I just prefer to be sold on a fertilizer by it's performance, not what the marketing department comes up with.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, I just don't have the money to ditch the AN bottles that I just bought. However, as soon as these run out, you have without a doubt convinced me to switch to DG. They should be cutting you a check man.


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## lunchbox421 (Aug 8, 2011)

Yea I'm gonna keep an eye on this new run. 1 table sog in hydroton with just dg and drip clean. Then I'm giving sunshine #4 a run for the rest where I'm going dg half and then the other half I'll use the rest of the h&g I have. The h&g treated me good with last run which was in all coco. Their base is about the same as dg, price wise, but they don't tell you what all in it. Most of their additives don't add much ppms except for their algen extract and top booster/shooting powder which is similar to kool bloom. I like the liquid karma as well, it does add that organic-ish aspect. Always use it once my clones start rooting then slowly add regular veg nutes. 

What's your experience with sushine, or promix, and dg? Do you amend your soil with anything? You notice any salt build up on topsoil? I know the shots you took of your soil ladies look phenomenal but I'm just curious if there are any differences between pbp from a week to week standpoint. I do use drip clean with everything now a days as a safe guard against build up, especially my moms. Not sure if you've read up on it but I think it does what it says it's supposed to. The salt build up I used to get after a few months isn't there anymore. It's got a 0-18.7-6.1 ratio and you use .1ml per liter. From what I've read is that they removed a molecule from the phosphorous and potassium compounds so as it passes through the medium and root mass it attracts molecules to fill the void.

Thanks again. Take care and be safe!


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## nursejason (Aug 8, 2011)

Thank you so much for doing this, just prior to catching this thread and making my first post on this forum I was on the fence and now a couple weeks into dyna gro, protek and recently picked up some cal/mag, still cutting my teeth and learning so much and with this being second grow outdoors I am already expecting dramatic results this time around. I constructed darkening area last week due to I have a street light/HOA which did not give me main colas last year and have been doing quite a bit of undercleaning to put more energy into tops this year. Last year did not top, this year did, many changes this year and this thread helped me immensely, thank you so much HB for your work, I am a couple months out being outdoor so I will have to be patient to see how much all of my changes made but they would been much more confusing if not for re-reading the entire thread. I hope you continue to post and share what I believe to be honest, unbiased, very thorough information.


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## homebrewer (Aug 8, 2011)

lunchbox421 said:


> What's your experience with sushine, or promix, and dg? Do you amend your soil with anything? You notice any salt build up on topsoil? I know the shots you took of your soil ladies look phenomenal but I'm just curious if there are any differences between pbp from a week to week standpoint. I do use drip clean with everything now a days as a safe guard against build up, especially my moms. Not sure if you've read up on it but I think it does what it says it's supposed to. The salt build up I used to get after a few months isn't there anymore. It's got a 0-18.7-6.1 ratio and you use .1ml per liter. From what I've read is that they removed a molecule from the phosphorous and potassium compounds so as it passes through the medium and root mass it attracts molecules to fill the void.
> 
> Thanks again. Take care and be safe!


DG and promix/sunshine mix is super easy. At proper feeding levels, salt buildup isn't an issue and I usually use some vermiculite to even out the texture of the dirt. PureBlend worked fine, it was reasonably priced with decent concentration levels. I did notice some salt buildup around the holes at the bottom of my pots and I don't see that with DG. I don't think the salt buildup with pure blend was an issue when i was feeding properly but I just got better results with less work with DG. I gave my pure blend base nutes away.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 8, 2011)

I hate that nobody in my state carrys dyno-gro  they will order it but thats the case everytime I would want it.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Aug 8, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I hate that nobody in my state carrys dyno-gro  they will order it but thats the case everytime I would want it.


There isn't even a hydro shop within 4 hours of my house.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 8, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> There isn't even a hydro shop within 4 hours of my house.


dam I thought I had it bad


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## hornedfrog2000 (Aug 8, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> dam I thought I had it bad


Went to the garden store and the lady was asking me questions about hydro. They had a little flood table setup, but didn't seem to have any supplies for it.


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## homebrewer (Aug 9, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I hate that nobody in my state carrys dyno-gro  they will order it but thats the case everytime I would want it.


 I have 3 shops near me and out of the two that I go to, only one shop carries the DG grow and bloom. I actually avoid that shop and have one of their competitors order the DG bottles that I need. Funny though, they seem to carry every other base and additive ever invented but wont stock DynaGro .


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## fallinprince (Aug 9, 2011)

Where i live i could visit 6 stores within 10 miles and only one stocks dyna-gro and tbh its brand new before they opened while they were setting up. i told the owner he better stock it and he responded with "thats what i use. Why wouldnt I?" i decided that was probably the store i wanted to go to from then on. competitive prices too


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## Malus420 (Aug 9, 2011)

Excellent thread here mate, very nicely done and good to see that all the hype about AN is what I've always suspected, just good marketing!



homebrewer said:


> I have 3 shops near me and out of the two that I go to, only one shop carries the DG grow and bloom. I actually avoid that shop and have one of their competitors order the DG bottles that I need. Funny though, they seem to carry every other base and additive ever invented but wont stock DynaGro .


I saw your location, is it real Santorini? If yes, wow, 3 shops in Santorini and I was only able to dig out one in Athens and that was just decent with very limited range of products... Anyway, just being curious, I live in Spain now so that isn't an issue but all my mates back in Greece that are into the same "sport" could use some decent shops...  The only nut lines I could find locally in Athens were Atami, Biobizz, GH and Earth Juice...


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## shnkrmn (Aug 9, 2011)

Did they have decent beer making supplies as well? ROFL.


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## Izoc666 (Aug 9, 2011)

hey homebrewer your thread is rock about DG vs AD, i wanna say good job with test, sir ! at my three hydro stores in my local, they keep highly recommend me to buy the AN stuff...i was like hell no because no way i can afford those mutli bottless for ridicilous price i was thinking about buy trio of foxfarm fertilizers but i decided to research in here first before i buy...i ve already got GH flora bloom for my non cannabis plant and it works beautiful but im planning to use it on my hempie plant to see...so after i saw your thread...so definietly DG is best to get one...i went to those, they dont sell DG man...finally i found a small hydro store for reasonable price....i wanna say thank you for sharing information with us !


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## Malus420 (Aug 9, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> Did they have decent beer making supplies as well? ROFL.


what are you on about here mate? got me lost a little


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## mr.smileyface (Aug 10, 2011)

medicolas said:


> Nice! Thank you very much for that! I just did a side by side on Big Bud vs. Awesome Blossom and found no measurable difference. Maybe if you used AN full line up it might make a small difference, but what would the cost difference be then? Good lord those guy's are on crack in Canada!
> 
> This leaves me with no other choice but to say Fuck Big Mike Stromentus!
> please sing along with me.....
> ...


 You cant say shit about canada. Look whos dollar is stronger. Not to mention we have a tremendous amount of girls and we dont go to jail for growing. We have the most land per person and the strongest beer. 
You guys have checkers and jack in the box. very light beer and over populated cities. Your economy is very weak. 
Ill give it to you that you are army strong.
Cali and here (BritishColumbia) are the only places i would want to live


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## shnkrmn (Aug 10, 2011)

Thread owner's screen name is Homebrewer. He's a hobbyist beer maker. I was just amused by the unlikelihood of there being such a person on Santorini, but who knows? Just a stoner moment. HB??? 



Malus420 said:


> what are you on about here mate? got me lost a little


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## Capt. Stickyfingers (Aug 10, 2011)

mr.smileyface said:


> You cant say shit about canada. Look whos dollar is stronger. Not to mention we have a tremendous amount of girls and we dont go to jail for growing. We have the most land per person and the strongest beer.
> You guys have checkers and jack in the box. very light beer and over populated cities. Your economy is very weak.
> Ill give it to you that you are army strong.
> Cali and here (BritishColumbia) are the only places i would want to live


Checkers? Like the game? Jack in the Box.... I've never seen or been to one.. McDonald's would have been a better example. Also, we have most of the same beer as you Canucks. And if you didn't know, California IS part of the U.S. It's not a country. And I can't tell you how many of you drive here to do your Xmas shopping. Our stores and malls are full of Canadians around the holidays. Also 1 dollar of your money is equal to 1.0091 in a U .S. dollar. Not much difference. 403,640 your money = 400,000 our money. That 3,640 isn't very much. Also, people go to jail all the time in Canada for pot growing. Sounds like you don't know your own country very well. 
And at least the U.S. isn't like the quiet passive kid in the corner that no one ever notices or even acknowledges that they exist. - Just kidding on the last part. I really like Canada, but your simple view of us is distorted a great deal.


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## RogueToker (Aug 10, 2011)

I guess you don't know this since it sounds like you aren't very knowledgable about the US, but many of us don't live in overpopulated cities, we drink any type of beer that we please, and can eat at restaurants offering some of the finest food you can imagine. People aren't jumping fences to get into Canada...


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## Malus420 (Aug 10, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> Thread owner's screen name is Homebrewer. He's a hobbyist beer maker. I was just amused by the unlikelihood of there being such a person on Santorini, but who knows? Just a stoner moment. HB???


ok I get the beer thing but the "unlikelihood of there being such a person on Santorini" well you'd be surprised of the people you can find in Greece... You are talking like it's some third world place somewhere lost in Africa or as if Greeks are some primitive nation or something... Unless you are on of those that think Spain is in South America. No offense, I'm just saying...


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## bigsourD (Aug 10, 2011)

> You guys have checkers and jack in the box...


Fuck yeah we have Jack in the box!


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## shnkrmn (Aug 10, 2011)

Sorry man. no offense taken. I've been all over Greece (not Santorini) never been to Spain, but Portugal, France, Italy, Egypt (three years) blah, blah blah, Don't look for an insult where there is none.



Malus420 said:


> ok I get the beer thing but the "unlikelihood of there being such a person on Santorini" well you'd be surprised of the people you can find in Greece... You are talking like it's some third world place somewhere lost in Africa or as if Greeks are some primitive nation or something... Unless you are on of those that think Spain is in South America. No offense, I'm just saying...


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## OGPanda (Aug 10, 2011)

Hell yeah for Jack In The Box!!! Even they know that stoners are a good chunk of their market group. Ya'll ever seen the Jack In The Box commercial with the long haired dude in a VW van pull up to the drive thru. He looks high, talks all slow and asks for like 30 .99cent tacos. To all the stoners that know..... that damn taco go hard at late night after a mad session of smokin'.


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## Malus420 (Aug 11, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> Sorry man. no offense taken. I've been all over Greece (not Santorini) never been to Spain, but Portugal, France, Italy, Egypt (three years) blah, blah blah, Don't look for an insult where there is none.


Of course no offense taken cause I didn't offend you. You did, an entire nation actually. And no I wasn't looking for an insult and even less for an argument mate, but the way you put it was... well lets just say it could have been nicer. And I'm still not looking for a fight and seriously no harsh feelings but I do want to make my point clear here.

I'm just tired of ignorant racists (not talking about you here btw just generalizing a little) that think that the rest of the world asides their country, and I discovered that phenomena mostly in US btw, doesn't exist or is just some third world shithole in South America. I have been all around the world visiting over 50 countries and have lived from 6 moths to 2 years in 4 different countries over 3 different continents. I've learned to respect other cultures and I expect other people to respect mine. Especially since it's one of the oldest in the planet and the most contributing to what you call today civilization... And yes in case you haven't realized already I'm Greek living in Spain. And I do grow my weed in Spain and used to brew my own whine too with my late father in Greece and I don't have a phd. So if I,some random greek guy, could do that, then I bet there are many more in Santorini that can plant pot and brew beer... Don't make it sound like it's rocket science cause it's far from it...

Peace,


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## Trichy Bastard (Aug 11, 2011)

Yeah, the funny thing is that people are like pack animals- they tend to think their team is better, but at the end of the day we're all human beings, and we're all pretty much the same. Everyone wants to be happy and have a loving family and what not. I'm american, but I don't consider that anything to be more proud of, I'm just another citizen of the planet that happens to be in this spot of the world. Some people think patriotism is good, I say if it infers we are better- than it's a hunk of BS


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## RogueToker (Aug 11, 2011)

Malus420 said:


> Of course no offense taken cause I didn't offend you. You did, an entire nation actually. And no I wasn't looking for an insult and even less for an argument mate, but the way you put it was... well lets just say it could have been nicer. And I'm still not looking for a fight and seriously no harsh feelings but I do want to make my point clear here.
> 
> I'm just tired of ignorant racists (not talking about you here btw just generalizing a little) that think that the rest of the world asides their country, and I discovered that phenomena mostly in US btw, doesn't exist or is just some third world shithole in South America. I have been all around the world visiting over 50 countries and have lived from 6 moths to 2 years in 4 different countries over 3 different continents. I've learned to respect other cultures and I expect other people to respect mine. Especially since it's one of the oldest in the planet and the most contributing to what you call today civilization... And yes in case you haven't realized already I'm Greek living in Spain. And I do grow my weed in Spain and used to brew my own whine too with my late father in Greece and I don't have a phd. So if I,some random greek guy, could do that, then I bet there are many more in Santorini that can plant pot and brew beer... Don't make it sound like it's rocket science cause it's far from it...
> 
> Peace,


God damn, you are one whiny little bitch aren'tcha?


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## burrr (Aug 11, 2011)

This thread needs to get back on the topic of weed!
Here is the next round of durban poison, on day 24. With these three I started them under a MH 600 for 2 weeks, and switched to bloom nutes without adding any extra grow. Bud production looks on track with the first round, but even bigger plants this time. Stretch was minimal, and nodes are pretty tight for a sativa strain. I'm still running .8EC at the most, sometimes dropping down to .7EC. Style of grow is ebb and flow, with a dwc going on under the basket. I flood the bucket to the top 4 times a day, it's half full the rest of the time... and bubbling.


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## burrr (Aug 11, 2011)

Here is a nug from the july 13 harvest


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## Trichy Bastard (Aug 11, 2011)

Dang Burr, seems like you are really on track man... Very nice...


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 11, 2011)

burrr said:


> This thread needs to get back on the topic of weed!
> Here is the next round of durban poison, on day 24. With these three I started them under a MH 600 for 2 weeks, and switched to bloom nutes without adding any extra grow. Bud production looks on track with the first round, but even bigger plants this time. Stretch was minimal, and nodes are pretty tight for a sativa strain. I'm still running .8EC at the most, sometimes dropping down to .7EC. Style of grow is ebb and flow, with a dwc going on under the basket. I flood the bucket to the top 4 times a day, it's half full the rest of the time... and bubbling.


looks amazing man you got a journal?


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## reverof (Aug 11, 2011)

Homebrewer... you ever use DG with coco coir? If so whats your thoughts?


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## burrr (Aug 12, 2011)

No Journal for me at this time....
Here is a pic from my first try using dynagro, I tried it last winter when Homebrewer first compared it to GH. I was running about 1.5EC and using a little hygrozyme. it was quite the failure..... This is day 45


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## burrr (Aug 12, 2011)

Here are some more pics of my plants that were overfed with dynagro


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## homebrewer (Aug 12, 2011)

reverof said:


> Homebrewer... you ever use DG with coco coir? If so whats your thoughts?


I've never used DG with coco. I've actually never used coco before but I can't imagine DG wouldn't work with it. You might give the DynaGro folks a call as they really know their shiz. See if you can chat with Ryan (I think that's his name, been a while since I've called them).

In regards to burr's post and feeding levels, I was feeding at close to 2.0 EC when I first tested DG. I was just kinda going off their recommended schedule which happened to be close to the levels that I used to use with GH. After lowering those feeding levels down to just a touch over 1.0 EC, both brands really excelled and these days I take a backwards approach to feeding. I don't look at the how much my plants can take, rather I shoot for the minimum amount I can use without showing signs of underfeeding.


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## burrr (Aug 12, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I've never used DG with coco. I've actually never used coco before but I can't imagine DG wouldn't work with it. You might give the DynaGro folks a call as they really know their shiz. See if you can chat with Ryan (I think that's his name, been a while since I've called them).
> 
> In regards to burr's post and feeding levels, I was feeding at close to 2.0 EC when I first tested DG. I was just kinda going off their recommended schedule which happened to be close to the levels that I used to use with GH. After lowering those feeding levels down to just a touch over 1.0 EC, both brands really excelled and these days I take a backwards approach to feeding. I don't look at the how much my plants can take, rather I shoot for the minimum amount I can use without showing signs of underfeeding.


I've got a feeling that the hygrozyme played a roll in the burning of my plants. My theory is that a typical dwc root develops a protective skin to help deal with the direct nute contact.I think the hygrozyme removes this skin, and opens the roots up to absorb lots of nutes. I've yet to hear anyone growing with dwc and hygrozyme getting good results.


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## maphisto (Aug 12, 2011)

@ *reverof* i am currently using coco on my outside grow.DG works fantastic. my feeding is @ 910ppm & p.h is @ like 6.0 if i knew how to load pics i woud do so for ya.ive been turned on to DG for about 1/2 a year or so and it is the real deal.Yo HB whats going on?


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## mr.smileyface (Aug 13, 2011)

Capt. Stickyfingers said:


> Checkers? Like the game? Jack in the Box.... I've never seen or been to one.. McDonald's would have been a better example. Also, we have most of the same beer as you Canucks. And if you didn't know, California IS part of the U.S. It's not a country. And I can't tell you how many of you drive here to do your Xmas shopping. Our stores and malls are full of Canadians around the holidays. Also 1 dollar of your money is equal to 1.0091 in a U .S. dollar. Not much difference. 403,640 your money = 400,000 our money. That 3,640 isn't very much. Also, people go to jail all the time in Canada for pot growing. Sounds like you don't know your own country very well.
> And at least the U.S. isn't like the quiet passive kid in the corner that no one ever notices or even acknowledges that they exist. - Just kidding on the last part. I really like Canada, but your simple view of us is distorted a great deal.


Just yankin ur chains. someone metioned canada not being a country. So being canadian i had to say something.
Well i know for under 200 plants you get 9 months probation more than once to, My old naibour got busted. Over 200 plants they can throw the book at you. I didnt refer to cali as there own country. They deffinetly stand out for the marjiuana. So does BC. DOnt even get me started with the canucks lol. 
We dont do 5 years in jail for growing either so dont kid yourself


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## Jaymann005 (Aug 14, 2011)

Ok. This needs to be done over. ill Just say this. first, if you are going to compare something to something, you need to
do it PROPERLY. Being dialed in with one product, and then just starting to use one and expecting the same or even greater is very silly. 2nd. If dyna gro says to put in this much per liter/gallon what ever, does not mean that is what you put in with connoisseur..They both have there own amounts, so you put in what each bottle says, not what you want. Does not work that way. 3rd, both these products work. Advanced in my words does not work as well in soil. The best by far in aero. a ebb flow type deal, Conn beat out the dyna gro in my test, but i did what each bottle told me to..Connoisseur has 11 chealted nutrients in it, not 3, or the 4 that dyna gro has. Starting out with the wrong amount of base food for your plants in the worst way to start them off.. Im only a med grower for one as well as my wife and i...Kinda want the best for the one i love!! Have used full lines of General hydroponics, house and garden, canna, technaflora, grotek, dutch master gold, a base house line from some store, atami, botainicare,humbolt and Advanced nutrients. Best and yes more expensive= Advanced Nutrients. Have run side 
by side with a aeroponics unit, each with 1/10 hp chiller and water temp at 64. Each strain, where and how it is grown is going to make a difference in how the nutrients are going to work. But you HAVE to follow the base amount from the back of each nutrient, not just what you feel is right....And with advanced, about 1/2 strength for most products is good. Way too strong with the 2ml/litre thing. And no need to be dissing us Canadians. We do understand the jealousy, but you should really keep it in..We are always here for you. Even if you say bad things to us. We can take it.


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## homebrewer (Aug 14, 2011)

Hello Mr. Three posts. You're trolling, i get it, so I'll bite. But before I start critiquing your critique, I'd like to point out that you have zero journals or pics of your side-by-side comparisons. I guess we'll just take your word for it? Let's get started....



Jaymann005 said:


> Being dialed in with one product, and then just starting to use one and expecting the same or even greater is very silly.


I've run GH and DynaGro at 'dialed in' levels with excellent results. Those same 'dialed in' levels were used in this grow and Connoisseur performed worse than both nutrient brands. I fail to see the silliness in using proper feeding levels across all brands since each is supplying it's own ratios of minerals. Because of the different mineral makeups of each brand, the same levels will never equal the same results. 




> 2nd. If dyna gro says to put in this much per liter/gallon what ever, does not mean that is what you put in with connoisseur..They both have there own amounts, so you put in what each bottle says, not what you want. Does not work that way.


First of all, recommend schedules are only _guidelines_. I don't feed my orchids like I feed my tomatoes, nor do I feed my peppers like i feed my arugula. I wasn't using the recommended schedule with GH or DG or Connoisseur. I was feeding at the levels that my strain performs well at. You seem to be confused by this but when I say 'proper feeding levels', this does not mean that I'm using the same mls-per-gallon with each brand across the board. Did you miss the part of this thread where I discussed the concentration levels of DynaGro and Connoisseur? 'Proper feeding levels' are calculated by an Excel spreadsheet and measured by a TDS meter. 



> 3rd, both these products work. Advanced in my words does not work as well in soil. The best by far in aero. a ebb flow type deal, Conn beat out the dyna gro in my test, but i did what each bottle told me to..


Where is your test? If you're feeding like the backs of the bottles say to, then you have a lot to learn about growing healthy plants. 



> Connoisseur has 11 chealted nutrients in it, not 3, or the 4 that dyna gro has.


Connoisseur doesn't even come close to 11 chelated minerals: http://www.advancednutrients.com/hydroponics/products/connoisseur/connoisseur_faq_nutrient_facts.php

Lets just say Connoisseur did contain what you say it does; it still performs poorly compared to its lower-priced competition. 



> Starting out with the wrong amount of base food for your plants in the worst way to start them off.. Have used full lines of General hydroponics, house and garden, canna, technaflora, grotek, dutch master gold, a base house line from some store, atami, botainicare,humbolt and Advanced nutrients. Best and yes more expensive= Advanced Nutrients.


Once again, where are these documented tests? 



> But you HAVE to follow the base amount from the back of each nutrient, not just what you feel is right....


If you're telling me that a fertilizer company knows my plants better than I do, I just don't know what to say to that. Maybe start in the newbie forum before you try to tackle slightly more advanced concepts like the ones found in this thread?



> And with advanced, about 1/2 strength for most products is good. Way too strong with the 2ml/litre thing.


I'm glad we agree on something. 2mls per litre is 1.6 EC. I was feeding at around 1.2 EC or in terms you can understand: 1.4mls/litre. AN does not have a suggested feeding program on the backs of these Connoisseur bottles, just a chart that goes from 0.42 EC up to 2.85 EC and the measurements that it takes from each bottle to reach said level.


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## RogueToker (Aug 14, 2011)

Hey Homebrew, may I ask your opinion on something? What are your thoughts on "lollipopping" a plant? What are your thoughts on pruning the leaves of a very bushy plant to help light reach more parts of the plant? I have a couple 43w cfls and a few 27w cfls around the sides of my plants along with the 400w hps over top, but the plants are so bushy that they seem to be blocking a lot of light.


----------



## sofresh420 (Aug 14, 2011)

Whats up HB I appreciate the test you did... I've been growing for 4 years now and have been using Dyna Gro since the beginning. I was ALMOST sold on the AN hype and almost gave it a shot (just wanted to try something else)... but My results with Dyna Gro has pretty much ALWAYS been consistent with what you've shown, Some strains have had even a little better results. And i also use it in Coco, ebb, aero, cloning tray and cloning spray box...To prove how much its works I first used Dyna Gro in MIRACLE GRO! (when i was an inexperienced grower) and still came out with some sick ass colas...I use Floralicous Plus also but i use it as a foliar and use a few humbold additives with my nute mixture... no CO2 and my buds are still bigger and denser then most.... NO CO2!


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## homebrewer (Aug 14, 2011)

RogueToker said:


> Hey Homebrew, may I ask your opinion on something? What are your thoughts on "lollipopping" a plant? What are your thoughts on pruning the leaves of a very bushy plant to help light reach more parts of the plant? I have a couple 43w cfls and a few 27w cfls around the sides of my plants along with the 400w hps over top, but the plants are so bushy that they seem to be blocking a lot of light.


 I don't intentionally 'lollipop' but I do trim some spindly branches from the lower parts of the plant (on some strains). I do it for the following reasons: it helps cut down my trimming time at harvest, it allows air to circulate better under the plants and it's easier to spray my plants with neem or whatever as a preventative measure against mites.

When it comes to bushy plants, I'll never trim leaves off. The only time I ever pull leaves is if they have mites or eggs or an issue that will affect the rest of the plant. My goal is lots of green, healthy leaves and I try my best to keep them like that until harvest.


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 14, 2011)

Jaymann005 said:


> Ok. This needs to be done over. ill Just say this. first, if you are going to compare something to something, you need to
> do it PROPERLY. Being dialed in with one product, and then just starting to use one and expecting the same or even greater is very silly. 2nd. If dyna gro says to put in this much per liter/gallon what ever, does not mean that is what you put in with connoisseur..They both have there own amounts, so you put in what each bottle says, not what you want. Does not work that way. 3rd, both these products work. Advanced in my words does not work as well in soil. The best by far in aero. a ebb flow type deal, Conn beat out the dyna gro in my test, but i did what each bottle told me to..Connoisseur has 11 chealted nutrients in it, not 3, or the 4 that dyna gro has. Starting out with the wrong amount of base food for your plants in the worst way to start them off.. Im only a med grower for one as well as my wife and i...Kinda want the best for the one i love!! Have used full lines of General hydroponics, house and garden, canna, technaflora, grotek, dutch master gold, a base house line from some store, atami, botainicare,humbolt and Advanced nutrients. Best and yes more expensive= Advanced Nutrients. Have run side
> by side with a aeroponics unit, each with 1/10 hp chiller and water temp at 64. Each strain, where and how it is grown is going to make a difference in how the nutrients are going to work. But you HAVE to follow the base amount from the back of each nutrient, not just what you feel is right....And with advanced, about 1/2 strength for most products is good. Way too strong with the 2ml/litre thing. And no need to be dissing us Canadians. We do understand the jealousy, but you should really keep it in..We are always here for you. Even if you say bad things to us. We can take it.


ok if you did what every nute line told you to feed or follow their schedule to the letter you would have a lot of fucked up plants bro. i have used 80% of nute lines out there, and NOT ONE have i ever been able to follow their directions EVER. for example House and Garden, which i use currently, and i prefer. If i followed their guidelines to the letter i would be feeding in the 3.0EC level during late veg and flower. any experienced grower knows that is just plain retarded. BUT just to see i followed their feed schedule to the letter on one grow. low and behold my yield suffered dramatically due to stumped growth on the half of my plants that was on that schedule, where as the ones on a sane schedule running at 1.2-1.4 ec TOPS yielded my usual 1.5lb per 1kwatts


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## maphisto (Aug 14, 2011)

View attachment 1735962i grew this wonderful lady using DG


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## Trichy Bastard (Aug 14, 2011)

It still begs the question why on earth every single nute company recommends to overfeed. I understand their desire to get you to use up the product quicker- but if your plants all die and you say screw growing or at least hydro for good, all they did was lose customers. I'd think a smarter company would come out, recommend a light and proper feeding schedule- and claim it's because their nutes are superior and you need less- it must be the next gimmick due out soon?


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## coonword (Aug 15, 2011)

what brand of light and bulb do you use homebrewer?


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 15, 2011)

Trichy Bastard said:


> It still begs the question why on earth every single nute company recommends to overfeed. I understand their desire to get you to use up the product quicker- but if your plants all die and you say screw growing or at least hydro for good, all they did was lose customers. I'd think a smarter company would come out, recommend a light and proper feeding schedule- and claim it's because their nutes are superior and you need less- it must be the next gimmick due out soon?


its here i am testing it. Aptus its b ig in holland 1ml per gallon pretty much everything.


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## homebrewer (Aug 15, 2011)

coonword said:


> what brand of light and bulb do you use homebrewer?


I've tried many different brands and settled on hortilux bulbs years ago.


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## Jaymann005 (Aug 15, 2011)

Sooo. I see what i can sometimes do after i have one of my massive just over 4 min epileptic seizures... Im guessing i 
wanted to pick a fight or something, because that post was really silly(stupid) of me to say the least... At least i am
now going to the computer and typing, and not going to the next door neighbours and telling them to fuck off. As i
have done twice in 7 months...So.. First off have to say i feel like an idiot with that post. One would expect a bit more
class, and smarts from someone with more then a decade of tinkering. So Homebrewer, i must say sorry about that.
Can tell you it will not happen again, as i have changed my password and will not know it till i have my brain back.

Wish i could tell you have stupid i feel. Have been told some stories about how i react to me and my fish out of
water actions, but this was a bit different on my part. Looking at what i wrote i felt like about 10 years old.

Either way, hope you can understand, if not, i do. 

Cheers. Egor...


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## Jaymann005 (Aug 15, 2011)

Looking again at my retarded post, i can see i was right on 2 of the 4587 things i bitched about though.. One, yes
no matter what nutrient anyone is using, you start at about 1/2 of what it says to on the back of the bottle...Much
easier to add more then to take out.. And the other thing was the chelated amounts in Connoisseur. Have both the PH 
perfect one and the old same one as you did this test with... On the bottle of the old ones, this is the list. Part A.
Calcium chelate,Magnesium chelate, potassium chelate,Boron chelate,iron chelate,zinc chelate,manganese chelate,
copper chelate, cobalt chelate. Part B. Magnesium chelate, pottassium chelate. On the new PH perfect. The back of 
the bottles say...Part A. Magnesium chelate,iron chelate,manganese chelate,nitrogen chelate,zinc chelate,boron chelate,
copper chelate, molybdenum chelate, cobalt chelate and calcium chelate. Part B.. Potassium chelate and nitrogen chelate.

Have both older and the newer version and thats what the back says.. Take a pic of the sides of the bottle. i would
but have no camera.. 

Cheers.


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## MasterS (Aug 15, 2011)

Who doesn't have a digital camera in 2011 and post in forums? Seriously... I'm fucking serious... who? Even a phone nowadays is more than enough for forum pictures. People still have rotaries?


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## homebrewer (Aug 15, 2011)

Jaymann005 said:


> Looking again at my retarded post, i can see i was right on 2 of the 4587 things i bitched about though.. One, yes
> no matter what nutrient anyone is using, you start at about 1/2 of what it says to on the back of the bottle...Much
> easier to add more then to take out..


Half strength is a good _guess_ but at the end of the day, that's all it is. Why guess when you can use a TDS meter? Those meters take the guess work out of feeding and eliminate those unwanted early surprises.






> And the other thing was the chelated amounts in Connoisseur. Have both the PH
> perfect one and the old same one as you did this test with... On the bottle of the old ones, this is the list. Part A.
> Calcium chelate,Magnesium chelate, potassium chelate,Boron chelate,iron chelate,zinc chelate,manganese chelate,
> copper chelate, cobalt chelate. Part B. Magnesium chelate, pottassium chelate. On the new PH perfect. The back of
> ...


This is what my bottles say; 3 chealated minerals. A chelate is simply an organic molecule that wraps itself around a metal ion and prevents its precipitation, increasing its solubility. Whether were talking about 4 minerals or 11 being chelated, I don't have an issue with minerals becoming unavailable to my plants when using DynaGro.


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## Jaymann005 (Aug 16, 2011)

Ahhhh...Do not have a cell phone either.... And yes, also own a cabin with 2 rotaries in there.... Going to borrow someones 
camera.... Conn part A for me, and am now starting to believe people in Canada get a different batch then people
in the u s of a.... Part A 4.9-0-3.6 Part B 1.8-5.1-6.4...... You have the ingredents on the rear of your bottle, mine
are on the side of it.. So now guessing we are both right, just depends on where you live and what day the bottle was made... Strange though having the old one and new one, and yet they both say the same up here....Hmmmm.


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 16, 2011)

Jaymann005 said:


> Ahhhh...Do not have a cell phone either.... And yes, also own a cabin with 2 rotaries in there.... Going to borrow someones
> camera.... Conn part A for me, and am now starting to believe people in Canada get a different batch then people
> in the u s of a.... Part A 4.9-0-3.6 Part B 1.8-5.1-6.4...... You have the ingredents on the rear of your bottle, mine
> are on the side of it.. So now guessing we are both right, just depends on where you live and what day the bottle was made... Strange though having the old one and new one, and yet they both say the same up here....Hmmmm.


about a year ago AN had to relabel all their bottles, due to false garunteed analysis lol. anyway one of you probably has the newer label and other the older ones. another reason AN is terrible in my opinion


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## MasterS (Aug 16, 2011)

Proof Jamann is a troll, pathetic fuck is trolling my inbox now ^_^

First person to hit my ignore list.


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## Bird Gymnastics (Aug 16, 2011)

Can you explain what a troll is masterS? I've noticed you have used that terminology in almost every thread I see you in. Ha ha


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## burrr (Aug 16, 2011)

Bird Gymnastics said:


> Can you explain what a troll is masterS? I've noticed you have used that terminology in almost every thread I see you in. Ha ha


Troll (Internet)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Do not feed the trolls" and its abbreviation "DNFTT" redirect here. For the Wikimedia essay, see "What is a troll?".


The "trollface" sometimes used to indicate trolling.[1]
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted". While the word troll and its associated verb trolling are associated with Internet discourse, media attention in recent years has made such labels subjective, with trolling describing intentionally provocative actions outside of an online context. For example, mass media uses troll to describe "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families."[5][6]


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## kdub86 (Aug 17, 2011)

Hey homebrewer, first off I must say this has been the best read so far on this forum for me, I'm definitely considering using dyna-gro now.

I remember a post somewhere where you told someone to pm you for more information on your feeding schedule and amounts for using dg in soil, but as you can see I don't have enough posts here yet to do that. Anyway, I would really appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction for some more info on how you personally use dg for soil. Thanks again!


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## mdanforth (Aug 17, 2011)

I'm not HB but...everyones setup is different so everyones feeding schedule is different. Example...lets say I'm running 6K of HPS and co2 in my flower room.... my ppms and transpiration rate would be greater than someone running 2 600 watt and no co2, also if I'm using RO i'd hafta run cal/mag where perhaps someone with tap water might not.....learning to read your plants and let them tell you how much to feed and how often is the best schedule to use....


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## kdub86 (Aug 17, 2011)

mdanforth said:


> I'm not HB but...everyones setup is different so everyones feeding schedule is different. Example...lets say I'm running 6K of HPS and co2 in my flower room.... my ppms and transpiration rate would be greater than someone running 2 600 watt and no co2, also if I'm using RO i'd hafta run cal/mag where perhaps someone with tap water might not.....learning to read your plants and let them tell you how much to feed and how often is the best schedule to use....


Thank you, and yes I completely understand that, my setup is definitely different I'm just looking for a good reference to start with when I switch to dg


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## burrr (Aug 17, 2011)

Durban poison on dynagrow bloom, 375 ppm day 34 and lookin awesome.


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## Rick Ratlin (Aug 17, 2011)

I don't want to hijack your thread homebrewer, but as dg users have congregated here, here's my question. I have a gallon of bloom, and when I was mixing it today, I noticed that something has solidified in the bottle. When I shake it, it sounds like chunks of rocks are in the bottle. How can I fix this? No freezing conditions, nutes stay in a dark cabinet about 70 degrees fahrenheit.


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## MasterS (Aug 17, 2011)

Contact Dyna-Gro customer support, I'm sure they can be very helpful.


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## homebrewer (Aug 18, 2011)

kdub86 said:


> Hey homebrewer, first off I must say this has been the best read so far on this forum for me, I'm definitely considering using dyna-gro now.
> 
> I remember a post somewhere where you told someone to pm you for more information on your feeding schedule and amounts for using dg in soil, but as you can see I don't have enough posts here yet to do that. Anyway, I would really appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction for some more info on how you personally use dg for soil. Thanks again!


 Technically I don't use soil, I use promix or sunshine mix. I premix my base nutes at a 2:1 ratio of bloom to grow, then feed maybe 3mls/gallon when the ladies need fed. That's what I do during flower and as others have stated, your mileage may vary depending on your water source and environment. 



Rick Ratlin said:


> I don't want to hijack your thread homebrewer, but as dg users have congregated here, here's my question. I have a gallon of bloom, and when I was mixing it today, I noticed that something has solidified in the bottle. When I shake it, it sounds like chunks of rocks are in the bottle. How can I fix this? No freezing conditions, nutes stay in a dark cabinet about 70 degrees fahrenheit.


 I have never noticed this with full gallons, BUT, as I get near the end of a jug, I have noticed some chunks at the bottom occasionally. It's not a frequent occurrence but I've noticed this with other fertilizers too. I can only imagine that the gallons were sitting in the store for quite some time until I put them to good use. I have yet to see issues related to this but again, this is an infrequent occurrence for me anyways (regardless of brand).


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## irishboy (Aug 18, 2011)

burrr said:


> Durban poison on dynagrow bloom, 375 ppm day 34 and lookin awesome.


my plants were loving the low nutes also. i wasn't paying attion and was feeding like 5ml in 5gal of water in a soiless mix and the plants were loving it! this was in veg though


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## shnkrmn (Aug 18, 2011)

This happens with Bloom and Foliage Pro in gallon sizes. As per the label, you can dilute the contents of the gallon along with the precipitate with an equal amount of warm water, shake well, and it will go back into solution. I have done this with Foliage Pro without ill effect. I wonder how this might affect the nute ratio though.

The gallons I buy don't contain any precipitate at the time of purchase and I have a theory that storing them on the cold flood of my basement in winter may be part of the problem. Dunno for sure. I use about 2 gallons of Bloom a year, so it doesn't stick around that long. I'm still flowering at 700 ppm. I guess I'm going to drop my levels lower along with you guys.



homebrewer said:


> Technically I don't use soil, I use promix or sunshine mix. I premix my base nutes at a 2:1 ratio of bloom to grow, then feed maybe 3mls/gallon when the ladies need fed. That's what I do during flower and as others have stated, your mileage may vary depending on your water source and environment.
> 
> 
> I have never noticed this with full gallons, BUT, as I get near the end of a jug, I have noticed some chunks at the bottom occasionally. It's not a frequent occurrence but I've noticed this with other fertilizers too. I can only imagine that the gallons were sitting in the store for quite some time until I put them to good use. I have yet to see issues related to this but again, this is an infrequent occurrence for me anyways (regardless of brand).


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## indoorherbs (Aug 18, 2011)

Shocking. He found exactly what he decided ahead of time he wanted to find.

Dude, you spend so much time and effort on forums hating on Advanced Nutrients and bad-mouthing anyone who uses them I don't see how I or anyone else can really believe you didn't sabotage the AN grow in some way. Either consciously or subconsciously. I know from personal experience that when it's dialed in properly it kicks ass.


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## lunchbox421 (Aug 18, 2011)

Hey Homebrewer by chance do you use airstones or a recirculating pump in your res? I have a 40 gal res and ~250gph pump on full time mixing the water but I think it's raising my water temp too much, around 78f. With this I find I'm getting a little algae as well so I'm thowing in some h2o2 every few days and it clears it right up. Thinking I might put it on a recycle timer so it's not constantly on or throwing the airstones in might to maybe keep things mixed up without the added heat but I've heard conflicting accounts of yea v nay on airstones. Also if by using nothing do you think/see there will be any fall out. Dyna seems to mix up well with the water and I don't notice any particles floating around, like for instance with liquid karma and the such. Just wanted your 2 cents. Thanks again and keep up the good work. Be Safe!


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## burrr (Aug 18, 2011)

indoorherbs said:


> Shocking. He found exactly what he decided ahead of time he wanted to find.
> 
> Dude, you spend so much time and effort on forums hating on Advanced Nutrients and bad-mouthing anyone who uses them I don't see how I or anyone else can really believe you didn't sabotage the AN grow in some way. Either consciously or subconsciously. I know from personal experience that when it's dialed in properly it kicks ass.



Dude, Advanced Nutes did OK. Most people would say that a pound from a 600 is kicking ass, Dynagrow just kicks more ass for less money. The comparison was way more fair than the "grow off" that advanced nutrients sponsored a few years ago. I'm sure homebrewer would agree that the mixture needed more additives to get a NPK of 1-3-2 and would perform a little better with them. I have not seen HB badmouthing users of AN, just setting the record straight that 10 different bottles of expensive crap is not really needed. Here's a link to that "unbiased" video showing how mush greater AN is than the rest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvq1RZkzw6Y


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## burrr (Aug 18, 2011)

IndoorHerbs, I guess I don't need to show you the link to the video. I see you have been there, and clicked on LIKE

Recent Activity 

indoorherbs liked a video (6 days ago)

Advanced Nutrients talks wi...
@THC Expo. Grower Vic tells it like it is with his growing. Let it rip man!



indoorherbs liked a video (6 days ago)

@THC Expo with Tom the Novi...
Tom watches Remo. Tom learns from Remo. Tom starts using Iguana Juice. T... more



indoorherbs liked a video (6 days ago)

Where is GH?
@THC Expo supporting the community but no GH . . .



indoorherbs liked a video (1 week ago)

Treating Yourself Expo 2011...
http://www.urbang... Check out cannabis superstar Remo as he jets aroun... more



indoorherbs liked a video (1 week ago)

AN SmokeOut panel Tommy Cho...
Tommy Chong, B-Real from Cypress Hill, and Lou Dog from the Kottonmouth ... more


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## homebrewer (Aug 18, 2011)

indoorherbs said:


> Shocking. He found exactly what he decided ahead of time he wanted to find.
> 
> Dude, you spend so much time and effort on forums hating on Advanced Nutrients and bad-mouthing anyone who uses them I don't see how I or anyone else can really believe you didn't sabotage the AN grow in some way. Either consciously or subconsciously. I know from personal experience that when it's dialed in properly it kicks ass.


I think if you actually read the 50 or so previous pages, you'd see that this analysis is less about the brands and more about what the brands are bringing to the table. In this case and in every case, it's about the essential minerals and the ratios that they're being supplied. 

If you're capable of an intelligent debate, please point out where I failed to give Connoisseur a fair shot at yielding as well as DynaGro and we'll discuss further. 




lunchbox421 said:


> Hey Homebrewer by chance do you use airstones or a recirculating pump in your res? I have a 40 gal res and ~250gph pump on full time mixing the water but I think it's raising my water temp too much, around 78f. With this I find I'm getting a little algae as well so I'm thowing in some h2o2 every few days and it clears it right up. Thinking I might put it on a recycle timer so it's not constantly on or throwing the airstones in might to maybe keep things mixed up without the added heat but I've heard conflicting accounts of yea v nay on airstones. Also if by using nothing do you think/see there will be any fall out. Dyna seems to mix up well with the water and I don't notice any particles floating around, like for instance with liquid karma and the such. Just wanted your 2 cents. Thanks again and keep up the good work. Be Safe!


 I've used air stones and not used them and it didn't make a difference either way. That being said, I use airstones but I do not constantly recirculate my res. I've found that products like floralicious plus almost need aerated constantly with an air stone or else they can make your res smell pretty funky, though the plants didn't seem to care one way or the other.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Aug 18, 2011)

I like DG because I don't have to filter through 30 different products to figure out what I actually need, and what is a waste of money.


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## shnkrmn (Aug 19, 2011)

LOL. I just started using Floralicious Plus because I'm a huge copycat. I run airstones in my res and it still smells like a granny fart. Plants look great though.



homebrewer said:


> I've used air stones and not used them and it didn't make a difference either way. That being said, I use airstones but I do not constantly recirculate my res. I've found that products like floralicious plus almost need aerated constantly with an air stone or else they can make your res smell pretty funky, though the plants didn't seem to care one way or the other.


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## Bleedmaize (Aug 19, 2011)

Very Cool writeup. Thanks for taking the time. Interested to hear the smoke report? Or at least your opinion.


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## homebrewer (Aug 19, 2011)

Bleedmaize said:


> Interested to hear the smoke report? Or at least your opinion.


 The 'smoke report' was more about seeing if one company was capable of growing better meds than the other and in blind tests, no one could tell the difference. If you're interested in an actual AK47 smoke report, here is a link to two done by members of this forum: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/395741-testing-beneficial-bacteria-ebb-flow-18.html


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## CR500ROOST (Aug 19, 2011)

Your stuff looks really dank.Idoorherbs is just mad becuase he spends more Money for his nutrients and gets not as good results as you.I wanna use dyna grow next time around,which bottles should I buy.I'm grow outdoor.thanks


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## homebrewer (Aug 19, 2011)

CR500ROOST said:


> Your stuff looks really dank.Idoorherbs is just mad becuase he spends more Money for his nutrients and gets not as good results as you.I wanna use dyna grow next time around,which bottles should I buy.I'm grow outdoor.thanks


 I'd suggest at least the grow and bloom. That being said, outdoor plants don't seem to need a whole lot to stay healthy so keep that in mind when feeding. A few mls per gallon, max.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Aug 19, 2011)

Around here you stick them in the ground and let them go. We have some of the best farm land in the world though...


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## Nuthin2Serious (Aug 20, 2011)

Hey HB,
Read all of your posts. Insightful. Thanks for letting me benefit from your experience.
My question at the moment is...
When you do use the florablend or floralicious plus (in conjunction with the dg basics) to add aesthetic value such as aroma, how much do you use and how often and when in the flowering process?
And have you found one to enhance aroma more than the other?


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## Trichy Bastard (Aug 20, 2011)

Just to throw another snag in the chelation conversation- I am under the impression that EDTA is a chelator of many metals/minerals and because of this if one component- say "iron etda" is chelated as such, some of the excess etda will run around and scavenge throughout the bottle chelating everything. I am not sure if this is true however- but it sort of makes sense. Also, it's my understanding chelation is great as it helps the minerals remain available to the plant across a much broader ph range than non chelated- but if you keep a tight handle on ph this should not make such a big difference. I would love if anyone knew more or could correct me on either point.


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## MasterS (Aug 20, 2011)

That's about right, that's why certain metals/minerals that aren't available at the 5.8pH in healthy amounts are not showing deficiency. The ones the plant utilizes are chelated. Pretty sure I just reworded what you said for myself haha but somehow this is my way of agreeing.


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## CR500ROOST (Aug 20, 2011)

Thanks hb keep up the dank growing


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## KingIV20 (Aug 20, 2011)

Homebrew, just caught the last of this one - beautiful experiment, I'll definitely be getting the DG set next time I'm in need of nutes. 
As always, A+ work. You're an inspiration to us all. +rep.


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## CR500ROOST (Aug 20, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I'd suggest at least the grow and bloom. That being said, outdoor plants don't seem to need a whole lot to stay healthy so keep that in mind when feeding. A few mls per gallon, max.


 Sounds good.Anything else for better results?


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## homebrewer (Aug 21, 2011)

Nuthin2Serious said:


> Hey HB,
> 
> When you do use the florablend or floralicious plus (in conjunction with the dg basics) to add aesthetic value such as aroma, how much do you use and how often and when in the flowering process?
> And have you found one to enhance aroma more than the other?


 I add them in flower, 1ml of floralicious plus per gallon and maybe 3mls of florablend. I don't always remember to use florablend but it can be helpful. If I had to guess, FLP is probably more helpful overall but I happen to like them both.



> CR500ROOST
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds good.Anything else for better results?​


Outdoor growing is really a different animal than indoor growing. Just make sure your dirt is of decent quality and just let things grow. Give it a shot of bloom here and there but if you've ever had a garden, you'd notice that the veggies really don't seem to need a lot of plant food to do really well. Just keep that in mind.


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## CR500ROOST (Aug 21, 2011)

Thanks for your help.Yea i try not to over do it.


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## medicine21 (Aug 23, 2011)

hellraizer30, what do you think of my brilliant post?


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## 671mmj (Aug 23, 2011)

Really glad i switched to dyna-gro Grow,Bloom, and Protekt.

Ive seen a BIG difference in just a day. My leaves are looking more alive,standing completely parallel with floor and lights.

Which Dynagro schedule would be best as a basis for a hempy bucket perlite/verm grow?


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## homebrewer (Aug 23, 2011)

671mmj said:


> Really glad i switched to dyna-gro Grow,Bloom, and Protekt.
> 
> Ive seen a BIG difference in just a day. My leaves are looking more alive,standing completely parallel with floor and lights.
> 
> Which Dynagro schedule would be best as a basis for a hempy bucket perlite/verm grow?


 Depends on your water but like 2.5 mls of bloom and enough protekt to balance your pH per gallon should do you well in flower. Veg, maybe half that but use the grow formula?


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## burrr (Aug 25, 2011)

With some help from the folks here at rollitup I've been learning how to read my plants. One of the readings I'm on the lookout for is leaf claw. I take this as a sign to back off on the nutes, nitrogen in particular. I was just watching a vid by the urban grower, promoting the conniseur line. Correct me if I'm wrong, but those plants are all nitrated out! http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=R3IYLv7jwYg


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## homebrewer (Aug 25, 2011)

burrr said:


> With some help from the folks here at rollitup I've been learning how to read my plants. One of the readings I'm on the lookout for is leaf claw. I take this as a sign to back off on the nutes, nitrogen in particular. I was just watching a vid by the urban grower, promoting the conniseur line. Correct me if I'm wrong, but those plants are all nitrated out! http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=R3IYLv7jwYg


Some of the plants look better than others but there is definitely some eagle claw going on. The buds also look pretty leafy on the more sativa dominant plants in the room which is a big thing I noticed with Connoisseur. I just got done harvesting a tray of AK47 grown with DG of course and the trimming was a breeze compared to what AN produced. I can post yield numbers when dry but I didn't take any pics so for all anyone knows, I could be lying.


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## irishboy (Aug 25, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Some of the plants look better than others but there is definitely some eagle claw going on. The buds also look pretty leafy on the more sativa dominant plants in the room which is a big thing I noticed with Connoisseur. I just got done harvesting a tray of AK47 grown with DG of course and the trimming was a breeze compared to what AN produced. I can post yield numbers when dry but I didn't take any pics so for all anyone knows, I could be lying.


due after watching that video i am busting out the card and buying $300 worth of AN! i love mixing 20 different things!

to be honest i make all my friends look bad that buy all that crap.. i do it with $10 of Osmocote Plus and just plain water.lol. people can mix all the shit they want all day but if its not complete its not going to compete. its way over priced and nothing special.. to each is their own i rather K.I.S.S. the only thing i dont like about OC+ is you have no control so i am sticking with DG because its complete.


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## shnkrmn (Aug 25, 2011)

These are running 700 ppm +=. Protekt, Bloom, a lil grow and mag-pro and some floralicious plus. Day 25 of flowering. A cheese strain.


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## homebrewer (Aug 25, 2011)

KISS, low feeding levels and a little patience will go a very long way in producing crops vastly superior to our peers. As much as I want to chime in on every thread titled something like; '_Has anyone tried Super XL bud swell?_', it's almost easier to let them learn their own way. It's not just here though, comments on youtube echo the same ignorance that seems to plague the entire cannabis growing community. I almost want to quit giving advice publicly as simplicity is quite the valuable secret.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 25, 2011)

wish the local shore would hurry up and start stocking DG!!


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## shnkrmn (Aug 25, 2011)

I think your secret is safe. People hear what they want to hear and magic elixirs are always popular no matter the cost. Indeed, the cost is part of the attraction; how can magic elixirs come cheap?




homebrewer said:


> KISS, low feeding levels and a little patience will go a very long way in producing crops vastly superior to our peers. As much as I want to chime in on every thread titled something like; '_Has anyone tried Super XL bud swell?_', it's almost easier to let them learn their own way. It's not just here though, comments on youtube echo the same ignorance that seems to plague the entire cannabis growing community. I almost want to quit giving advice publicly as simplicity is quite the valuable secret.


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## irishboy (Aug 25, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> KISS, low feeding levels and a little patience will go a very long way in producing crops vastly superior to our peers. As much as I want to chime in on every thread titled something like; '_Has anyone tried Super XL bud swell?_', it's almost easier to let them learn their own way. It's not just here though, comments on youtube echo the same ignorance that seems to plague the entire cannabis growing community. I almost want to quit giving advice publicly as simplicity is quite the valuable secret.


due when i 1st started i bought so much shit and tested so many products ans spent big money, then i started seeing dude just running flora series lucas formula and rocking it out, thats when i learned. i actually learnd about plants and for me the only base nutes i will touch are DG or GH. ive killed it on GH with no additives. if i add additives i add organics like seaweed, EWC, humic acid or guano, cant go wrong with those and what mother nature offers. and their all cheap. base nutes i like chems because of yeild, organics for super quality, mix both and you have some potent stuff just like ur floralicious plus. seaweed is the best thing u an give a plant.. i swaer to anyone you dont need to spend big bucks and fall for that stuff, just get complete micro nutes and spend that money on ur room and setup. your environment is everything!! 

look $10 worth of nutes that i mixed into my soil and just gave water to these were grow indoors in 105F the whole life.

hers a comple of branches from that 105F weather. came out leafy because of the heat but who grows like this in 105F temps indorrs for $10 worth of nutes.lol


heres some that were just grow with just the GH flora micro and bloom. i got 19oz from 4 plants. because i K.I.S.S.


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## Bullethead21 (Aug 26, 2011)

Wow, what a great thread! Thanks HB and to all its contributors! Below is a short summary of the testing results we experienced when testing Dynagro. The system used was a RDWC system very like the Under Current system.

We started testing Dynagro about a year ago now I thinks its been, and once we started following a "nutrient profile" instead of anything else, things got better and most all problems went away as fast as they arrived! This led to further study in nutrient profiles matched to tissue samples.

We found that in flower the plant uses alot more nitrogen in flower than expected as well as alot more K than P. We also found that this type of fast growing plant does NOT need 2 separate profiles for veg and bloom. Using just the bloom formula and Protek with cal/mag in RO seem'd to produce the best results out of all tried. We also found the Dynagro Bloom formula has the MOST concentrated levels of K and P out of all the base nutes out there.

And for those wanting HB to do a test against House & Garden, been there done that...H&G lost big time! If you want to mimick the very expensive Roots Excelarator then try mixing Dynagro's KLN rooting product which contains the same hormones that are in RE, add a little Superthrive for the vitamins and you are there my friend for much less than half the cost of RE! But it actually works better than RE......

Just thought I would share some of our experiences when testing Dynagro formula's agaisnt others in RDWC systems.

Currently testing Advanced new PH Perfect Sensi line and what a pain in the ass that has turned out to be. Cant find ANY information of it being used in a DWC typr enviroment......trying to get info from AN is useless.....how can this formula claim to be PH perfect for soil AND hydro when they take 2 separate PH levels??? You want 6.5 PH in soil yes?? And you want 5.8 in Hydro yes?? How does this formula know the difference/??

We have also noticed very strange water effects like when adding the nutrient, it actually changes the size of the bubbles coming out of the air stones.....and you can hear this weird hissing noise as well. After a few hours the bubbles return to normal tiny sizes and the hissing noise goes away.....weird shit!!

Anyhow thanks again for all the awesome info and sharing the knowledge!

Peace!


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## irishboy (Aug 27, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> KISS, low feeding levels and a little patience will go a very long way in producing crops vastly superior to our peers. As much as I want to chime in on every thread titled something like; '_Has anyone tried Super XL bud swell?_', it's almost easier to let them learn their own way. It's not just here though, comments on youtube echo the same ignorance that seems to plague the entire cannabis growing community. I almost want to quit giving advice publicly as simplicity is quite the valuable secret.





Bullethead21 said:


> Wow, what a great thread! Thanks HB and to all its contributors! Below is a short summary of the testing results we experienced when testing Dynagro. The system used was a RDWC system very like the Under Current system.
> 
> We started testing Dynagro about a year ago now I thinks its been, and once we started following a "nutrient profile" instead of anything else, things got better and most all problems went away as fast as they arrived! This led to further study in nutrient profiles matched to tissue samples.
> 
> ...


very cool.. so u say run the bloom all the way threw and not use grow? one thing that i dont understand is you said the plants need allot of Nitrogen in flower but the bloom is pretty low?

you have any pics of your test or any pics of the dyna grown plants?


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## Bullethead21 (Aug 27, 2011)

That is an excellent question......

The calmag plus provides the needed nitrogen.

What I really meant by the post was that there seems to be this myth that plants use less nitrogen in flower than when in the vegetative cycle when the tissue samples show the opposite. This also would eliminate the need for this so called "grow" formula when you couple this with the speed that these plants grow at.


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## homebrewer (Aug 27, 2011)

Bullethead21 said:


> We found that in flower the plant uses alot more nitrogen in flower than expected as well as alot more K than P. We also found that this type of fast growing plant does NOT need 2 separate profiles for veg and bloom. Using just the bloom formula and Protek with cal/mag in RO seem'd to produce the best results out of all tried. We also found the Dynagro Bloom formula has the MOST concentrated levels of K and P out of all the base nutes out there.


Proportionately, Connoisseur supplies more N and less P than DynaGro throughout flower and the results were a loss in bud density and a 'leafier' final product as compared to both GH and DG. I would certainly agree that during the first 3 weeks or so, one should supply enough N to keep their plants green as the sign that they are under-supplying would be leaf drop or yellowing leaves. I've also heard that K is under-supplied by many non-cannabis-specific fertilizers but too much will lockout N, Ca and Mg. It's a balancing act in the end and while I'm intrigued by the data from tissue samples, I tend to get my best results with a 1-3-2.


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## Bullethead21 (Aug 27, 2011)

Your test seem to defiantly show that 1-3-2 is a very good ratio/profile to run, I do not think anyone could argue that after reading through this thread. There are other test projects as well which support this and the results are very similar to yours. Looks like the only real difference is that you do not use cal/mag but use the grow DG formula instead mixed with the bloom formula to arrive at your profile if I read correctly. Could you list the exact amounts of each (ml/gallon) that you mix for your bloom formula say mid flower or whenever your solution is mixed the strongest? I would like to run the numbers again and compare yours to what we tested.

This makes me wonder how much strain/genetics and especially environment conditions plays though at this time I do not think there will be enough evidence to support this theory.

Thanks again HB for all the information and sharing.


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## homebrewer (Aug 27, 2011)

Bullethead21 said:


> Your test seem to defiantly show that 1-3-2 is a very good ratio/profile to run, I do not think anyone could argue that after reading through this thread. There are other test projects as well which support this and the results are very similar to yours. Looks like the only real difference is that you do not use cal/mag but use the grow DG formula instead mixed with the bloom formula to arrive at your profile if I read correctly. Could you list the exact amounts of each (ml/gallon) that you mix for your bloom formula say mid flower or whenever your solution is mixed the strongest? I would like to run the numbers again and compare yours to what we tested.
> 
> This makes me wonder how much strain/genetics and especially environment conditions plays though at this time I do not think there will be enough evidence to support this theory.
> 
> Thanks again HB for all the information and sharing.


I feed at what would be considered 'lower levels' which is around 1.2 EC at the _peak_ of flowering. When using RO, I add 2mls of magpro per gallon and 5mls protekt. The rest of the EC is made up of some combination of Grow and bloom depending on the week. I use more grow at the beginning than at the end but if you take a look at Burr's pics, he doesn't run Grow during flower and is getting stellar results. I guess it takes a little tweaking depending on what our plants are telling us but I like the fact that I'm not juggling 7 products trying to figure out which is causing issues.


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## Bullethead21 (Aug 27, 2011)

Right on! I like your style my friend! I think back in the thread I read you were using somewhere around 1ml per gallon of the grow I think it was? 1ml to 2ml sounds about right I think.

I agree also on the tweaking part, strain and enviroment I think could sway the said "tweaking" one way or the other but bottom line is that the similar ratio's are showing about the same stellar results accross the board which is all good. Especially since the nutrients being tested are so much cheaper and easier to manage than the more expensive Connie line.......According to the marketing done by AN, a cheap nutrient like Dynagro should NOT be coming any where close to the yields from such a high caliber and complete formula like Connie....much less perform BETTER!!

The next adventure I think will try using the grow and omit the calmag...also going to test with Magpro as the booster. Do you ever use koolbloom and magpro at the same time? Usually try and sneak some koolbloom powder in somewhere toward the later weeks in the flowering schedule.

Awesome info as always!!


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## homebrewer (Aug 27, 2011)

Bullethead21 said:


> Do you ever use koolbloom and magpro at the same time?


One of the things I love about DG is that it doesn't need boosters. The bloom is a 3-12-6 or a 1-4-2 NPK ratio. I've found that to be plenty of P and K to satisfy the needs of my plants. Sure, MagPro has a _booster-like_ NPK value and when using it, I'm always adding a touch of grow. I would think that koolbloom would just be too much P and K given what's already in _my_ res. 

Burr inspired a little side test in one of my reservoirs midway through this Connoisseur test. I ran a tray of AK's with only bloom and protekt along with my usual floralicious Plus from week 4 until harvest (tap water, not my usual RO). The plants stayed healthy and green up until the end and i'm 100% sure it out-yielded Connoisseur (though I'm still waiting for yield numbers). More importantly though was the fact that given the simplicity of my feeding schedule, the yields looked as good as they normally do from this area of my room. I think the point of my ramblings here are that it's all about balance. Find it and let the plants do what they've done since the beginning of time. No tricks, no fancy-label additives or funny marketing gimmicks, just the essentials.


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## irishboy (Aug 27, 2011)

Bullethead21 said:


> That is an excellent question......
> 
> The calmag plus provides the needed nitrogen.
> 
> What I really meant by the post was that there seems to be this myth that plants use less nitrogen in flower than when in the vegetative cycle when the tissue samples show the opposite. This also would eliminate the need for this so called "grow" formula when you couple this with the speed that these plants grow at.





homebrewer said:


> Proportionately, Connoisseur supplies more N and less P than DynaGro throughout flower and the results were a loss in bud density and a 'leafier' final product as compared to both GH and DG. I would certainly agree that during the first 3 weeks or so, one should supply enough N to keep their plants green as the sign that they are under-supplying would be leaf drop or yellowing leaves. I've also heard that K is under-supplied by many non-cannabis-specific fertilizers but too much will lockout N, Ca and Mg. It's a balancing act in the end and while I'm intrigued by the data from tissue samples, I tend to get my best results with a 1-3-2.


i am not sold of the hole claim more N is better in bloom that AN said or DG told me. ive tested this and it will give you leafy bud less dense and harsher weed. the more N is not needed IMO. i ran the Lucas forumla before and had great results. too much N will give you a hay smell and can make ur stems fold over also. ive tested it and will not be doing that one again. around week 3-4 of flowering i would hit them with a little N but thats it.

infact at the nd i like my plants to become N def because i get better smoke at the end. now threw bloom when the buds are growing you dont want things to yellow, but i found with the strains ive used that the DG bloom and mag pro will give all the N you need. 

one things you guys should really try is the dark period before harvest. not to "in cress resin" or whatever others say, but it pushes the nutes back into the medium and give me much cleaner and just A+ smoke. 

this is another reason why i stopped using OC+ because it had so much N in it!

tis run i am gonna start feeding DG bloom a week before i flower to see if they kick into gear more? one things that made a huge different in a test ive done was folair feeding with seaweed, made my girls flower in 5 days and bud sites everywhere. seaweed is the best thing you can feed a plant! also if you folair feed with a higher dose it will act like "Bush master" and stunt vertical growth

i dont rember but i think the cal/mag needs to be a 1:4 or 1:5 ratios or something close? thats one thing that worried me about adding the mag pro


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## dvan (Aug 27, 2011)

dnya grow and bloom rocks. Death metal too lol


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## Declectic (Aug 30, 2011)

HB - thanks for putting in time and effort to share this valuable information. In short&#8230; I'm a first time grower. I have everything I need up and running except for nutrients and I'm going to need those ASAP as I'm getting ready to enter the veg phase.

Having read (& skimmed) through the last 61 pages&#8230; I'm curious&#8230; in the veg phase&#8230; all I need is Dyna-Gro Grow? and for bloom phase&#8230; Dyna-Gro Bloom&#8230; <--- just those two&#8230;*nothing else? I say nothing else because before reading you're thread I was going to go with the AN Sensi Grow A/B; voodoo juice; b-52 during my veg phase&#8230;*thus giving me the illusion that I need this/that/the other just get feed the girls. (BTW growing in soil if that matters)

Thanks for your input


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## MasterS (Aug 30, 2011)

We all seem to love adding Pro-Tekt as well. The Silicon helps with cell division and strengthens our girls.


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## Declectic (Aug 30, 2011)

@MasterS: Good to know. I saw that Pro-Tekt as well as Mag-Pro on this general guideline (http://www.hhydro.com/files/Instructions/dynagro.pdf). Was thinking of purchasing all 4, seems logical.


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## irishboy (Aug 30, 2011)

ya get Pro-Tekt, then the grow and bloom/ mag-pro isnt needed as much unless ur using RO water, but i use tap and using it anyways. but Pro-Tekt is a must IMO just helps allot of things but you can still do what you need off of just the bloom and grow. thats whats so nice about DG they are no bullshit and make it cheap and simple


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## shnkrmn (Aug 30, 2011)

I've read comments elsewhere about folks blending RO and tap water and thus not having to add a supplement for Ca and Mg, and also not using so much RO. Thoughts, anyone?


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## Short Bus (Aug 31, 2011)

I add tap to my RO till it hits about 100-120, no need to sup and I find the ph is a little more stable that way.

Homebrewer, great journal. Subbed.


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## reverof (Aug 31, 2011)

Unless your tap water is really that far out there as far as PPM, and you are needing to supplement CalMag, easiest thing you can do is either use tap water or get a carbon filter for a hose... such as listed here http://www.purewaterproducts.com/gardenhosefilters.htm, and use tap water. I have a RO system, but I presently dont use the entire RO for my water, I use the pre-filter & carbon and run water to my grow space.... for soil its perfect, PH of 6.9 and never have a calmag deficiency. my PPM on the water coming out of the carbon filter is around 55, prior to cabon filter its like 90.


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## Declectic (Aug 31, 2011)

Thanks for the great information. I was advised by a close friend that I shouldn't use my tap water because&#8230;*I have a software system installed and the salt used to clean the water&#8230;*can get in the water and bad for the roots and he recommended that I use my RO water instead.


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## nursejason (Aug 31, 2011)

All I can say is I am very happy I caught this thread and switched to DG Bloom, Protek, and been running some Cal-Mag due to my RO, I started adding Earth Juice for sweetener although it was suggested in thread not needed, I am in soil outdoors and about a month away from harvest, only my 2nd grow and all I can say is I am extremely pleased with progress so far. I neem oiled them just before flower and have had to caterpillar spray twice, I have also constructed a light deprivation area in backyard due to last year my main colas were getting street light. Thanks again for all the wonderful help of this thread to such a newbie as me, I opted for a feed, feed, water schedule due to info in thread and give organic tea on my water days, so far so good, don't know how to upload pics from phone, sorry but thanks again for all the wonderful information.


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## HighC (Aug 31, 2011)

Homebrewer,

I just finished my first Flood and Drain in systems just like yours. I also started another closet with 18 plants under 2 1000 watt lights in a Drain to waste system. I have found advantages and disadvantages of both but it seems less work to do the Drain to waste as I don't have to drain each week and replace each reservoir. I am going to run one more cycle on the Flood and Drain. I am going to go with which ever system yields the most. Have you used coco with drip emitters? What are your thoughts? What do you do with your trim of fan leaves after harvest? I have a large garbage bag full I need to get rid of. How long do you cure for? Sorry for so many questions but I have found most of the people I find on these chat rooms either don't know what they are talking about, or they won't help you. Thanks in advance!!!


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## homebrewer (Aug 31, 2011)

HighC said:


> Homebrewer,
> 
> Have you used coco with drip emitters? What are your thoughts?


I have not. If promix ever fails me, I may look into coco. If that day comes, I'd probably hand-water.



> What do you do with your trim of fan leaves after harvest? I have a large garbage bag full I need to get rid of.


I compost mine then use that in my garden outside. 



> How long do you cure for?


I cure until I smoke it  I'm not a curing junkie though I do like to give my personal stash enough time to really lock in a nice aroma, say 3 weeks?


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## Trichy Bastard (Sep 1, 2011)

Declectic said:


> Thanks for the great information. I was advised by a close friend that I shouldn't use my tap water because*I have a software system installed and the salt used to clean the water*can get in the water and bad for the roots and he recommended that I use my RO water instead.


LOL I think you meant "Soft water" not "software" - but yeah, the salt is used to ionize the resin beads during the "regeneration cycle"which then the ions pull out the minerals as the water flows through them, some residual salt on the resin bed can get into the system, although it's not very much, it's better to avoid. You can use Potassium salts however instead of soduim salts. It costs a bit more though. I have a whole house softerner/carbon filter too, and it's one of the best thigns I ever did...


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## Declectic (Sep 1, 2011)

Trichy Bastard said:


> LOL I think you meant "Soft water" not "software"


 Haha, you caught me&#8230; what happens when I'm working & posting LOL.


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## KaNiZeChT13 (Sep 4, 2011)

ok so ive been looking at a lot of your forums but i havent seen exactly how much nutrients you use per gallon. it probably says it somewhere but theres still a lot of reading lol. im about to invest in a dyna-gro set of nutes and while their on their way here i need to find out how much to use. like what is your feeding schedule for yours? like how many ml per gallon. im new to this and i need help


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## burrr (Sep 4, 2011)

Try running about .8 EC to 1.0EC


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## homebrewer (Sep 4, 2011)

Anyone ever make bubble out of leaf or airy buds?


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## KaNiZeChT13 (Sep 4, 2011)

i guess what im really wondering is the ratio of all the fertilizers. im buying the dyna-gro grow, bloom, mag pro, and pro tekt. i just wanna know how much of each should go in at a time. im really confused im now switching to hydroponics so im not too smart on this subject. and also how often do i need to add the nutrients to my resevoir? i have an 18 gallon and it hooks up to an 8 planter nft system


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## homebrewer (Sep 4, 2011)

KaNiZeChT13 said:


> i guess what im really wondering is the ratio of all the fertilizers. im buying the dyna-gro grow, bloom, mag pro, and pro tekt. i just wanna know how much of each should go in at a time. im really confused im now switching to hydroponics so im not too smart on this subject. and also how often do i need to add the nutrients to my resevoir? i have an 18 gallon and it hooks up to an 8 planter nft system


 The amounts and ratios depends on the stage of plant growth, your environment and your strains. I have three grow journals on here where I at least talk about DynaGro products. I'm all for helping people but what I really don't believe in is spoon-feeding people which skips the 'learning process'. I'm sure you can find a DynaGro feeding schedule somewhere on the internets but what that isn't telling you is _why_ you're using them in the amounts that you are. Read through my journals, call DynaGro, use Google. The simple fact that you're giving DG a shot as a beginner shows that you've got more brains than the average beginner. Here's a starting point in veg while you're learning: 3-4mls of grow and maybe 4mls of protekt per gallon. Buy a pH pen, a TDS meter, and add protekt first.


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 4, 2011)

im planning on geting a set of bags the leaf pile building up, that looks like some great bubble hash


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## Joedank (Sep 4, 2011)

I put all my airy buds or LARF if you will thru my bubble bags I usually do it separate from sugar leaf cuz the leaf makes a better product .


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## KingIV20 (Sep 5, 2011)

Yessir that's some beautiful looking hash. I'm all about it. Though I have not personally used bubble bags before on my harvests, I do prefer them. But I did do a BHO extraction on my previous grows. The shit is potent as hell, being straight butane melt, but is really annoying to deal with and I only would get a few grams if lucky out of a good amount of trim. The bags are the way to go for sure...that or the APE


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## Nuthin2Serious (Sep 14, 2011)

I was telling a friend about this post and all that I had learned from it, and he was convinced enough to switch from GH to dyna grow and is going to be following a similar system as the one you are using except using hydroton rocks in 5 gallon buckets with a ebb and flow system. His initial question, which I couldn't answer, was... how does the 'max out at 1.2 EC' philosophy change when moving up from 600 watt to 1000 watts. Would it be proportional? Two thirds more light therefore two thirds more ppm? Bringing the max EC to 2.0? Or is the increase in light not as large a factor? Any thoughts?


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## homebrewer (Sep 14, 2011)

Nuthin2Serious said:


> ... how does the 'max out at 1.2 EC' philosophy change when moving up from 600 watt to 1000 watts. Would it be proportional? Two thirds more light therefore two thirds more ppm? Bringing the max EC to 2.0? Or is the increase in light not as large a factor? Any thoughts?


 More light just means more area for more plants. I'd keep the feeding levels the same (1.2 EC max) and taper down to 1.0 EC during the last week or two. Burr goes lower than I do with great results so just monitor the health of your plants, the ppm, pH and you should be set up for success. Keep in mind that before one can see any real differences between nutrient brands, environmental conditions and basic growing practices must be sound.


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## homebrewer (Sep 16, 2011)

I just wanted to post a quick pic of my most recent breeding project. The goal isn't to create seeds necessarily though I guess I could always cube the most desirable pheno to stabilize it in seed form. The initial cross I did make with my selected parent plants resulted in a surprisingly homogenous crop with the only real variation between the phenos being aroma. I will say that the aromas do vary a good bit, some being influenced more by one parent than the other. One smells nothing like either parent and actually resembles a strong spicy dirt scent, kinda gross actually. The more attractive aromas range from sweet blueberries (pictured below) to sweet skunk/spice which is also nice. 

Below is a nice lady at day 40 who seems to exhibit what's most important to me at this stage. Aroma, resin production and yield, in that order, were my goals thus far and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that potency is about as good as it looks visually. 

Once these plants are harvest and a keeper pheno is selected, hopefully I can show off my new strain in a grow journal. Cheers!




A crop of the previous pic for a better look at resin production. As always, DynaGro bases only.


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## burrr (Sep 16, 2011)

Tell me again what the parents were? that is one frosty nug!


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## homebrewer (Sep 16, 2011)

burrr said:


> Tell me again what the parents were? that is one frosty nug!


 I don't know if i'll reveal the exact lineage but what I did come across in my breeding research was that a cross of polar opposites results in a more interesting strain than a cross of similar parents. So that's what this is, a cross of two strains that had virtually nothing in common and the idea was to not only create something totally different than the parents, but to create something totally different than what I already have. I'm afraid that revealing the lineage would have people think it's just a 50/50 split between the two parents when my goal is to produce something independent and unique.


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## burrr (Sep 16, 2011)

So we are stuck guessing.  

I'll guess AK erkle
or maybe dumpster erkle.

whatever she is, she looks really dank.


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 16, 2011)

im real interested homebrewer got me thinking of how I could cross my orange kush with my dump truck  would I think be a lethal combo lol

1 ? how did you go about geting your strains to cross, did you use clodilal silver?


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## homebrewer (Sep 16, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> im real interested homebrewer got me thinking of how I could cross my orange kush with my dump truck  would I think be a lethal combo lol
> 
> 1 ? how did you go about geting your strains to cross, did you use clodilal silver?


 Orange fire Truck sounds tasty  

I've done crosses in the past (always a male and a female) with strains that I've ordered from SeedBoutique but they'll also throw in a _pack_ of freebies with your oder and every now and again I'll get a great male out of a random freebie pack. Since I know what to expect out of a cloned strain, crossing the 'unknown' male gives me a better look at what said male is bringing to the table. It's a lot of trail and error but if I see similar traits across the board that I can trace back to the male's influence, I can then either stick with that initial cross, cross it with something I feel is a better match, or trash the male. 

I think goals are important from the start before you begin the project (ie. yield, potency, color, plant structure, maturity time, etc.) so as to not get lost in the variation of phenos that usually results when pollen chucking. I would recommend using a parent that is very indica or sativa dominant as to minimize that variation.


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## jesicalorren (Sep 16, 2011)

i was using tetra flora and change over to AN for about $700 after about 2 months i didnt see a HUGE difference so i tookem up on there 100% money back guerntee got my mony back n spent about 175 on dyna gro. been using that for like a month and it seems to be doing as good as AN fk spending all that money on something that i can get the same result from a quarter of the price!!!


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## homebrewer (Sep 16, 2011)

jesicalorren said:


> i was using tetra flora and change over to AN for about $700 after about 2 months i didnt see a HUGE difference so i tookem up on there 100% money back guerntee got my mony back n spent about 175 on dyna gro. been using that for like a month and it seems to be doing as good as AN fk spending all that money on something that i can get the same result from a quarter of the price!!!


 I was going to return my Connoisseur bottles but I lost the damned receipt  Over here it's not quite as easy as a simple return and refund, there is some paperwork involved and they ask questions as to if you followed the recommend schedule and what else was being used during the grow. There seems to be a disconnect between the refund policy that AN's customer service speaks of and what actually occurs in the stores.


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 16, 2011)

yah I ran into the same issue with my AN nute return but thanks to knowing the store owner I got through all the red tape


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## jesicalorren (Sep 16, 2011)

same here they asked me some things and i was doing things right i just wasnt impressed but ya thats the only good thing i can say about AN .. they gave me my money back lol


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## asilsweater (Sep 17, 2011)

Home brewer,i want to thank u,for giving me the idea to run dyna grow,it rocks,it out performing my old fox farm line in veg,simply put im done with ff in veg,havent flipped yet but will run ff bloom on one side and ur dg recipe on other!thanks to everybody else on this thread whos contributing to da good info we as growers need and deserve!!


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## KingIV20 (Sep 19, 2011)

Good work with your genetic experimentation Hb! I have no doubt that whatever comes out of the Homebrewed Labs will be nothing but the best connoisseur strain(s) humanly possible. Keep it clean and green.
king


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## Highhopes99 (Sep 22, 2011)

Great thread homebrewer, love to see whats next!


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## kingballer12 (Sep 22, 2011)

Hey im about to order some nutrients for my first DWC, what kind of DynaGro are you referring to in this guide?? There are different ones such as 7-9-5 ect.


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## homebrewer (Sep 22, 2011)

kingballer12 said:


> Hey im about to order some nutrients for my first DWC, what kind of DynaGro are you referring to in this guide?? There are different ones such as 7-9-5 ect.


 The DG plants were grown with bloom (3-12-6), grow (7-9-5), Protekt (0-0-3) and Magpro (2-15-4) but the only ones that are_ needed _are grow and bloom. I don't use magpro in the dirt and it's really intended for people who use RO water. I actually rarely use protekt in the dirt but will occasionally on my 'water' days.


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## homebrewer (Sep 23, 2011)

Just wanted to post a few pics of things I've got going on at the moment. 

A young Kali Mist. The aroma is sweet like candied lavendar with some spice:



My own strain day 49 (nameless at the moment). She smells like skunky blueberries:



...some pheno variation in the nameless strain, also day 49. This one is pungent, less fruity, more fuel and skunk:


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## Joedank (Sep 23, 2011)

Nice project you got going. What male did you use


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## MasterS (Sep 24, 2011)

I don't think secret breeding project = sharing all genetic information haha


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## 711grower (Sep 25, 2011)

Homebrewer have you ever used dyna gro in coco ? If so was cal mag supplmentation necessary ? Anyone can chime in aswell. Thanks


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## Declectic (Sep 25, 2011)

711grower said:


> Homebrewer have you ever used dyna gro in coco ? If so was cal mag supplmentation necessary ? Anyone can chime in aswell. Thanks


In one of HB's other threads, found this:



> The points you brought up about coco are true but definitely over emphasized in the indoor gardening world. The levels of Potassium and Sulfur that are present in high quality coco are not as high as people are lead to believe, or atleast not high enough to warrant a massive shift it nutrient composition. The concept that you need to use a coco specific nutrient is mostly just another clever way for companies to sell more nutrients. In my opinion, the potassium and sulfur levels present in coco are less of a concern than the tendency for it to "hold onto" calcium and magnesium, but even this problem is rare and easily remedied. Long story short, Dyna-Gro is designed to work well in coco so you don't have to worry about a coco specific formula. I myself am mainly a coco grower and I designed our drain to waste feeding chart to work with coco. I do recommend giving the plants a flush once a month and I recommend that you feed at a pH of 5.8 with Grow and 6.0 with Bloom. The higher pH is to account for the elevated phosphorous levels found in Bloom and Mag-Pro.
> We don't currently have any beneficial microorganism products but we will have a liquid based bacillus product coming out shortly. Our product will have 5 different strains of bacillus that will improve nutrient uptake and decrease fertilizer requirements. In the meantime, using something like Great White is a good idea. I also recommend using a little bit of a sweetener to give the beneficials another food source. I personally use a sweetener and a sea kelp product in addition to my Dyna-Gro and beneficials. I think you are getting the best of both worlds this way (organic and mineral based)
> 
> Foliage-Pro is definitely a great formula. It can be used the whole way through flowering but I personally find that it results in a leafier end product. During vegetative growth, however, Foliage-Pro is an excellent formula and the 3-1-2 ratio is quite exceptional, as you mentioned. The only advantage to using Grow is that it is slightly higher in a couple of micronutrients and you have less potential for nitrogen toxicity. Foliage-Pro is quite high in Nitrogen and some people over-do the nitrogen without realizing it. Sometimes people won't realize they are using too much Nitrogen because the main symptom is excessively green foliage. Most people think that the darker green foliage actually means a healthier plant. Then, when they go to transition to flower, they notice that the transition time is slow and blame it on the nutrients, not realizing that they simply over did the N which delayed their transition. Therefore, I often recommend Grow because it is a little easier to work with but as long as you don't over feed, Foliage-Pro should give you very impressive results and the switch to Bloom will give you a very rapid transition.


 *link: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/358562-dyna-gro-vs-general-hydroponics-17.html


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## Short Bus (Sep 25, 2011)

I used DG in coco for a while with great results. 2 things to bear in mind: Coco prefers a slightly lower pH than peat mixes, around 5.9-6, and if you see any deficiencies show up, it's more likely lockout than genuine deficiency so flush before trying to correct with nutes.


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## Nuthin2Serious (Oct 3, 2011)

I remember you saying that you top in veg and then fim in flower to form a nice bushy even canopy. How tall do you let the clones get before you top? And do you fim them first week of flower?


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## homebrewer (Oct 3, 2011)

Nuthin2Serious said:


> I remember you saying that you top in veg and then fim in flower to form a nice bushy even canopy. How tall do you let the clones get before you top? And do you fim them first week of flower?


 I top in veg at about the 6th node then _supercrop_ in flower for an even canopy. The clones are usually about 5-6inches tall when I top in veg.


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## KingIV20 (Oct 3, 2011)

Good to know Homebrewer, you don't find supercropping _while_ in flower to be a burden on the plants at all? I mean, obviously you get amazing results as it is, but I just wouldn't even have the balls to _try_ something like that while they're flowering.


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## homebrewer (Oct 3, 2011)

KingIV20 said:


> Good to know Homebrewer, you don't find supercropping _while_ in flower to be a burden on the plants at all? I mean, obviously you get amazing results as it is, but I just wouldn't even have the balls to _try_ something like that while they're flowering.


 As I'm sure you know, hydro plants grow so friggen fast, like up to _inches_ per day. Supercropping a fast growing plant like that means that it only takes 24 hours or so before the supercropped growth shoot has healed and is growing back towards the light. In the mean time, the lower branches are able to catch up to the top of the plant which evens out the canopy. I'll do this up to about week 3 because with my traditional set up of the stationary, overhead lights, proper canopy management can really improve yields.


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## KingIV20 (Oct 3, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> As I'm sure you know, hydro plants grow so friggen fast, like up to _inches_ per day. Supercropping a fast growing plant like that means that it only takes 24 hours or so before the supercropped growth shoot has healed and is growing back towards the light. In the mean time, the lower branches are able to catch up to the top of the plant which evens out the canopy. I'll do this up to about week 3 because with my traditional set up of the stationary, overhead lights, proper canopy management can really improve yields.


Impressive. I'll certainly take note of that


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## nicedreamz (Oct 4, 2011)

*HB- Been following for a long time, very inspiring. I want to try out the set up you're running and i have a few questions for you if it's ok?

Are you still running this feed schedule?
**Transition (1250ppm for 2-3 weeks): 
Grow 3.5
Bloom 5
ProTekt 5
MagPro 1.5

Bloom (1350 ppm for 4-5 weeks):
Grow 2.5
Bloom 7.5
ProTekt 5
MagPro 1.5

Ripen (1250ppm for 1-2 week):
Grow 0
Bloom 10.5
ProTekt 5 
MagPro 0

Also i can't seem to find how you're feeding for veg? I will be starting with baby clones under a 1k hps, Using the 6in rock wool as well. Do you have a mat under the cubes or do they just sit in the tray? Oh and are you using the floralicious and the sweet still? Thank you so much!! Glad my first post was in such an informative thread 
*


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## homebrewer (Oct 4, 2011)

nicedreamz said:


> *HB- Been following for a long time, very inspiring. I want to try out the set up you're running and i have a few questions for you if it's ok?
> 
> Are you still running this feed schedule?
> **Transition (1250ppm for 2-3 weeks):
> ...


This schedule was sort of based off the DG feeding chart and both are too hot IMO. The protekt values are fine, magpro may not be needed unless you're running RO and the bloom, grow, protekt and water should come to just over 1 EC. Really depends on your plants and what works best for you. 

For veg, I only need a few mls per gallon of grow and maybe 4mls of protekt. .6 EC i think?

I don't use a mat under the blocks and don't use sweet these days. I still use and love Floralicious plus at 1ml per gallon.


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## nicedreamz (Oct 4, 2011)

Thanks for the quick response, i don't mean to take up your time but i'm pretty much a newbb. I'm not sure what conversion my meter is, and i also don't understand EC? I have the Oakton TDS ultra basic tester and it reads PPM, not sure if you're familar with that brand? Do you use a nute calculator or something? How do you know how to get the exact ratio for every stage of plant growth? I have read the dumpster thread and now this one and i can't seem to find it. If you posted that already my bad. I'm sure you get tired of repeating the same thing over all the time. I just have bombed my last 2 grows and really want to have a successful grow for once. Anyways thanks for your time greatly appreciated. Oh if you want i posted a link to the meter i have.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TDS-TESTR-Ultra-Basic-Oakton-/160640182985


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## homebrewer (Oct 4, 2011)

nicedreamz said:


> Thanks for the quick response, i don't mean to take up your time but i'm pretty much a newbb. I'm not sure what conversion my meter is, and i also don't understand EC? I have the Oakton TDS ultra basic tester and it reads PPM, not sure if you're familar with that brand? Do you use a nute calculator or something? How do you know how to get the exact ratio for every stage of plant growth? I have read the dumpster thread and now this one and i can't seem to find it. If you posted that already my bad. I'm sure you get tired of repeating the same thing over all the time. I just have bombed my last 2 grows and really want to have a successful grow for once. Anyways thanks for your time greatly appreciated. Oh if you want i posted a link to the meter i have.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/TDS-TESTR-Ultra-Basic-Oakton-/160640182985


 I use an Oakton as well and I'm on the .7 conversion. Your manual should let you know. If not, give them a call. Also, google 'ppm to EC conversion' and there are several conversion charts out there. I like dealing in EC because of the different ppm scales. Best thing to do is add 5mls of your fertilizers to _one gallon_ of tap water (after you know the ppm of your tap water), subtract out your tap water ppm then divide by five. This lets you know how much 1ml adds to a gallon of water. Once you know how potent each product is, do some math ( I prefer excel) and come up with feeding schedules based on the products you're using and the desired ppm/EC level. There is a learning curve but you're on your way.


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## nicedreamz (Oct 4, 2011)

Thank you very much, I will be using RO water from my grocery stores water machine. My water reads 520 out my tap, unless you think i could make it work with it being so high? Do you feed baby clones a few mls as well? Or wait untill good roots have developed? Do you top feed until roots come out the bottom? Then start the flood & drain? Again thanks alot!!


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## Highhopes99 (Oct 5, 2011)

[/QUOTE]_Nutrient concentration levels:_ This is one thing that is often overlooked by growers when factoring in the actual cost of a fertilizer. Take DynaGro for example; at near $50 per gallon, DynaGro doesnt appear to be one of the most economical fertilizers on the market. *One thing that the bottle wont tell you is just how concentrated the nutrient solution actually is.* 1ml of DynaGro's grow and bloom into a gallon of water nets a final ppm (on the 442 scale or .7 conversion) of 220. 1 ml of Connoisseur A&B into a gallon of water nets a final ppm of 140 (on the 442 scale or .7 conversion), making DynaGro 157% more concentrated than Connoisseur. In other words, 2 gallons of DynaGro would last me about seven grow cycles whereas Connoisseur A&B would last just a touch over 5 grow cycles.


> I always thought that the n/p/k ratio on the bottle was a percent ratio ?
> 
> so wouldn't a 1/ 3/ 2 Ratio have 66.6 percent more phosphorus than say a 1/1/2 ratio, at any given amount?
> 
> ...


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## homebrewer (Oct 5, 2011)

> I always thought that the n/p/k ratio on the bottle was a percent ratio ?
> 
> so wouldn't a 1/ 3/ 2 Ratio have 66.6 percent more phosphorus than say a 1/1/2 ratio, at any given amount?
> 
> ...


Koolbloom (0-10-10) is just as concentrated as florabloom (0-5-4) and hydroplex (0-10-6) is more concentrated than both. GH micro at 5-0-1 has them all beat so I don't think that the numbers or ratios on the bottle tells you much about the concentration level unless you're comparing liquid to dry in which dry is always more concentrated at any given weight.


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## Nuthin2Serious (Oct 6, 2011)

So you top at about 6 inches, then two main stalks come out and you let them get to about 18 inches then flip into flower and begin supercropping for effective canopy coverage? How many weeks does this veg stage take on average? Also, I notice you corrected fimming to supercropping. What's your technique if I may ask? 
Thanks.


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## homebrewer (Oct 6, 2011)

Nuthin2Serious said:


> So you top at about 6 inches, then two main stalks come out and you let them get to about 18 inches then flip into flower and begin supercropping for effective canopy coverage? How many weeks does this veg stage take on average? Also, I notice you corrected fimming to supercropping. What's your technique if I may ask?
> Thanks.


 15-18 inches in veg, less than 3 weeks yields a plant with a pretty branchy structure. Fimming is a form of topping, supercropping is just smooshing and bending stems for a 'passive topping' if you will. If a shoot is growing quicker than the others, it gets supercropped to slow it down and to allow the lower branches to catch up.


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## nicedreamz (Oct 10, 2011)

I wasn't able to find if you're using the floralicious for the whole flowering period and how much per gal do you use? Also what do you use for ventilation? I picked up the GH coco mat, let you know how that works out. I know you like to turn your trees so you don't use one. But for me i like to place the RW on something either hydroton or crutons. Basically trying copy your setup minus the coco mat. Been following as guest since the dumpster thread.Thanks for all the info very helpful


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## homebrewer (Oct 10, 2011)

nicedreamz said:


> I wasn't able to find if you're using the floralicious for the whole flowering period and how much per gal do you use? Also what do you use for ventilation? I picked up the GH coco mat, let you know how that works out. I know you like to turn your trees so you don't use one. But for me i like to place the RW on something either hydroton or crutons. Basically trying copy your setup minus the coco mat. Been following as guest since the dumpster thread.Thanks for all the info very helpful


 Floralicious plus, 1ml per gallon and used only during flowering. I've thought about letting my roots expand into some sort of medium under my rockwool cubes, just haven't looked into it much. I only 'test' products and methods on dumpster and ak47 since i'm so used to how they produce and perform. Any difference either way and I can usually associate that back to the method or product. The reason I haven't looked into it much for the near future is because of my breeding project. Selecting keepers and running them through my hydro trays makes for inconsistent yields since these are the first time they're seeing my hydro system.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 10, 2011)

homebrew hows things! I got a question or your thoughts on a ph issue! not a big one just every now and then il get a ph drop, it will go
from 5.8 to 5.5 within 24hrs. im useing a tea for bactiria control and im thinking its a die off of the bennys so I just drop the res clean her
up and start over. doent happen much just once in a great while. what are your thoughts on this?


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## homebrewer (Oct 10, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> homebrew hows things! I got a question or your thoughts on a ph issue! not a big one just every now and then il get a ph drop, it will go
> from 5.8 to 5.5 within 24hrs. im useing a tea for bactiria control and im thinking its a die off of the bennys so I just drop the res clean her
> up and start over. doent happen much just once in a great while. what are your thoughts on this?


 Great White never affected my pH so I'm not sure that your bennies are the issue. What happens to your ppm when your pH drops (I bet it increases)? My _guess_ would be that your plants aren't taking in nutes at the same rate as water which is causing a slight pH drop. If it happens more than 'every now and again', I'd look for patterns as far as which week or stage of flower it's occurring in or what your ppm is doing overnight. Ultimately I'd think the solution would be to cut feeding levels back by 5-10%.


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## nicedreamz (Oct 10, 2011)

homebrewer thanks again, i just realized you already answered the floralicious question a few post back my bad!! Tonight i mixed up 80mls of pro and 65mls of gro to 25 gals of tap/ro and got 500 ppm, i know you said google the conversion but i leave early, get home late haven't found the time yet. Anyways my ph after adding that came to 6.5ish and took 3 caps of the GH down to get 5.9. Seems alot more then when using the GH nutes, do you have to add very much down? Or is it because i'm feeding kinda light on the nutes? My water before nutes was 100ppm at 7ph,


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## tenthirty (Oct 10, 2011)

Way too much pro-tekt. Try 2 mil per gal to start.


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## homebrewer (Oct 10, 2011)

nicedreamz said:


> homebrewer thanks again, i just realized you already answered the floralicious question a few post back my bad!! Tonight i mixed up 80mls of pro and 65mls of gro to 25 gals of tap/ro and got 500 ppm, i know you said google the conversion but i leave early, get home late haven't found the time yet. Anyways my ph after adding that came to 6.5ish and took 3 caps of the GH down to get 5.9. Seems alot more then when using the GH nutes, do you have to add very much down? Or is it because i'm feeding kinda light on the nutes? My water before nutes was 100ppm at 7ph,


 Looks good and you're probably on the .7 conversion. I'm never concerned with the amount of pH stuff I need to use initially as if I do, it's the last time during a week that I'll touch the stuff. Your pH is a function of your tap water and what you're adding to it, your mileage will vary.


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## nicedreamz (Oct 10, 2011)

Thanks Homebrewer


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 11, 2011)

Thanks homebrew il look into watching for a pattern.


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## UPNSMOKE23 (Oct 16, 2011)

Do you have any experience with gh maxi gro and maxi bloom? If salt build up is and issue do you flush or reduce the nutrients?
Would u do a test with gb vs maxi series?


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## homebrewer (Oct 16, 2011)

UPNSMOKE23 said:


> Do you have any experience with gh maxi gro and maxi bloom? If salt build up is and issue do you flush or reduce the nutrients?
> Would u do a test with gb vs maxi series?


 I don't have any experience with the maxi series but I think the NPK ratio is pretty solid. Though I don't like the fact that iron is the only micronutrient it contains.


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## burrr (Oct 17, 2011)

HB, if you were to grow just 3 plants under a 600, would you still use a 6" RW block? or would you go for something bigger.


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## homebrewer (Oct 17, 2011)

burrr said:


> HB, if you were to grow just 3 plants under a 600, would you still use a 6" RW block? or would you go for something bigger.


 Lets say i lived in a place where I could only flower 3 plants under a 600, I'd probably try DWC or ebb and grow, some kind of single site hydro system like that. I've actually run those systems in the past and had great results in terms of yield, though daily maintenance was annoying, res changes weren't possible without moving the plants around and cleaning equipment at harvest was time consuming. I feel like the more room one has for a healthy root system, the better the results will be in terms of yield. 

Based on the system I've settled into, and believe it or not I actually put a lot of thought into it in terms of making things easy on myself, minimizing waste, and being able to move hydro plants from veg to flower without having to move equipment around. So based on what I do now, if I only ran 3 plants at a time, I'd train them for even bushier structures and allow their roots to grow into at least 2 six inch blocks (not stacked but next to one another). I happen to really like flood and drain systems .


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 22, 2011)

Hey homebrewer you seem to be the riu nutrients npk gooroo around here if you got some spare time can
You tell me what you think of cyco nutes? Local store just stocked it and its like crack to all the growers
Shit flys off the shelf, so im wondering whats all the hype


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## Trichy Bastard (Oct 22, 2011)

I know you directed this to Homebrewer, but after reading the site I had to put in my 2 cents too. Nutes are nutes, just get the right ratio of them that you like from whatever brand (except something really cheap like miracle grow because they use the worst form of nitrogen). What makes this company scary is they include a controversial chemical " PACLOBUTRAZOL " in there domestic shipping (Australia) product only. I think its unethical and dangerous. Yes it is known to stunt vertical growth in trees, and off-label it is used to increase bud density and weight for ornamentals, but I don't believe it's even legal to put on plants made for human consumption. I'd steer clear of the company just based on this, and prey the guy you got a sack from didn't grow with it to increase his yields.

Here's someone's informal writeup about the chemical: http://www.vice.com/read/weed-dealings-keep-your-paclobutrazol-off-my-nugs


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## hornedfrog2000 (Oct 22, 2011)

what? Any links for more info on what you claim?


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## Trichy Bastard (Oct 22, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> what? Any links for more info on what you claim?


Yes, funny- I just added it via edit as you wrote this... Sure you can google some stuff as well, the manufacturers website list it under "flower A&B (Australia only)"


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## hornedfrog2000 (Oct 22, 2011)

So its only in the Australian stuff?


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## Trichy Bastard (Oct 22, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> So its only in the Australian stuff?


Yes, that's what it looks like from their website. The article I linked lists a couple other products like Bushmaster that contain it apparently. I was reading about it just a couple weeks ago, and when I saw it in the ingredients for this nute line I had to comment 

So, other than the ingredient we can't get in the states, I can't imagine how these nutes can be much different than anyhing else, matter of fact they don't look like they have as many trace nutrients as Dyna-gro. Tho only thing slightly interesting, is the form of nutrient they use is protein based- that-perhaps could make them more absorbable, but I haven't read anything reputable that confirms the claim, and I'd imagine the only thing that would really help is you could use a little less.


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## homebrewer (Oct 23, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey homebrewer you seem to be the riu nutrients npk gooroo around here if you got some spare time can
> You tell me what you think of cyco nutes? Local store just stocked it and its like crack to all the growers
> Shit flys off the shelf, so im wondering whats all the hype


 It's just another highly incomplete nutrient line that encourages the purchase of their other products for better results. Two part bases for grow _and_ bloom? That shouldn't be necessary for _grow _and the overall mineral content of their products is pretty poor. The NPK values of their bloom base is 3-0-2 and 1-5-6 resulting in roughly a 1-1-2 NPK ratio which is what Connoisseur brings to the table. At the end of the day it's still fertilizer and will grow plants but this looks like yet another canna-specific nute line made for pure profit, not performance.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 23, 2011)

Kinda the outlook i got! Dam i wish my store would cary DG


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## shnkrmn (Oct 23, 2011)




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## hellraizer30 (Oct 23, 2011)

I know i know but the stuff just isnt available to me in my area! Nice nugs shnkrmn!


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## shnkrmn (Oct 23, 2011)




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## homebrewer (Oct 23, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I know i know but the stuff just isnt available to me in my area! Nice nugs shnkrmn!


 Ask your local store to order it for you. Even if you had to pay shipping off Amazon or wherever, it's still a great value. I know you already get excellent results but I'd be interested to see what you think of DG.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 23, 2011)

Il chat with one of the other stores in my area about making a order and il do put it up against the bc line
No reason to try the an you already tested that.


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## WeJuana (Oct 23, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


>


What strain is that 3rd pic of the purple? Beautiful!! Im a Dyna-Gro addict!


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## shnkrmn (Oct 24, 2011)

The purple is the result of a breeding accident between exodus cheese and querkle. I guess it was reluctant to clone, because I have no more of that pheno growing. Actually, I'm almost done with the cheese entirely; awesome stuff but very messy growing habit for a SOG. Just growing the DOG kush now, although I have some bubblelicious and critical+ x sensi star that are ready to be mothers.

No doubt about it, once I dropped my nutrient concentration under 800ppm in flower my quality and quantity shot right up. Right now I fill my res (50 gals), dose it to 800 ppm and keep it topped up with RO water (no nutes for addbacks). After two weeks and adding 4-5 gallons every day or two (50ish plants), the ppm has dropped to around 540, pH becomes a little unstable and it's time to change the res. 2nd, 3rd and 4th weeks of flower are maximum water consumption.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 28, 2011)

Well i got some great news  went in to my local shop today and there and behold was the full DG line except pro tek
Could not believe it all by bitching about it and he orders it and doesnt even tell me like wtf! So in the morning im heading
Back to pick up grow,bloom,magpro how important is the pro-tek?

From the feed chart you gave me it looks like i should wait to get it before
Doing a run?


----------



## troutie (Oct 28, 2011)

so basicly this all started from buying a new bottle of nutes?... and doing a grow off against a nute your not using


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## burrr (Oct 28, 2011)

The pro-teck is a pretty key part. It's got the silica, some K, and it brings the PH of the nutes back up to the proper range. You could just get by with ph up until they get some pro-teck at the store. I'm convinced that the proteck helps fight off bugs and powder mildew.


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 28, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Well i got some great news  went in to my local shop today and there and behold was the full DG line except pro tek
> Could not believe it all by bitching about it and he orders it and doesnt even tell me like wtf! So in the morning im heading
> Back to pick up grow,bloom,magpro how important is the pro-tek?
> 
> ...


 That's great news! If you cannot get protekt, look into silica blast. Maybe there is another solid silica additive out there? As burr correctly stated, Protekt has a high pH and it kind of balances the acidity of the base nutes bringing your pH into a more desirable range (depending on your water source). I've also found that it adds a level of protection against mites and other bugs. 



troutie said:


> so basicly this all started from buying a new bottle of nutes?... and doing a grow off against a nute your not using


This thread was inspired by all the newbs and snake oil marketers as I wanted to take an honest look at how the most expensive base nute on the market truly performs. I used to be a GH user and tested DG, I now use DG because of a test exactly like the one I did in this thread (DG proved to be as pH stable as you can get while yielding more and being cleaner). Hopefully those growers who expect more than a fancy label and a hefty price tag out out of their nutes found this thread informative.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 28, 2011)

Il see if he can order up some pro tek and il wait to start useing


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## shnkrmn (Oct 28, 2011)

Having used Protekt for a year now, I can't imagine not using it. It knocks your pH sky high when you first add it to your water. Then the bloom and mag-pro drop it back into range. Where it tends to stay. I just changed my bloom res this morning and the pH hasn't budged 12 hours later. It should be good for a few days.

I agree about the bug resistance too. I haven't had a problem with mites at all since I started using Protekt.

But there's no reason to wait using the other products.


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## WeJuana (Oct 28, 2011)

I use pro-Tekt clone through flower until flush! I add 1 tsp per gal to my EZ clone with 1ts per gal of KLN and im ready to pot 2 weeks later!

Dyna-Gro all the way.


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## reverof (Oct 31, 2011)

I just did a re-order of protekt as I bought the quart size the first time, found it on Amazon for $27.95 for gallon, I also threw in some bloom as I am getting low, total shipping was $12. Locally the hydro stores wanted $21 for a quart... go figure.


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## 711grower (Nov 1, 2011)

i hate to ask because i know the answer is buried somewhere in this thread but could someone please post the ratios of bloom, grow, magpro, and protekt i need to achieve the 1-3-2 ratio that is sought after. thanks


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## reverof (Nov 1, 2011)

Sad I dont know the magpro but the Bloom & Protekt I believe is at 15mls & 23mls for 5 gallons... I may be mistaken but thats about what I use.


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## Motherhugger (Nov 4, 2011)

What a great thread. I wish I had more time to read all of it.

Great to see a side-by-side with Advanced Nutrients. Always better to see things in action than to speculate about them.

Keep it going!


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## reverof (Nov 5, 2011)

Homebrewer... What do you use to keep your res temps down?


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## CanniCastro420 (Nov 5, 2011)

Homebrewer, you have inspired me. Just ordered up dyna gro products for my next run. Thanx for doing this thread. I've always seen Dyna-Gro products, and walked by them. I've been using foxfarm, and i'm really looking forward to having less things to add to rez!


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## homebrewer (Nov 7, 2011)

711grower said:


> i hate to ask because i know the answer is buried somewhere in this thread but could someone please post the ratios of bloom, grow, magpro, and protekt i need to achieve the 1-3-2 ratio that is sought after. thanks


 The bloom alone is a 1-4-2 ratio so when adding a little grow formula to that, you're bringing that ratio down closer to a 1-3-2 (maybe a 3:1 ratio of bloom to grow?). 



reverof said:


> Homebrewer... What do you use to keep your res temps down?


Nothing. My res temps are in the mid 70's actually. Not sure if that's high or not but I've never had issues with that temperature range.


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## 711grower (Nov 7, 2011)

thanks but wouldnt adding mag pro and protekt throw those ratios out of whack


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## homebrewer (Nov 7, 2011)

711grower said:


> thanks but wouldnt adding mag pro and protekt throw those ratios out of whack


 You're not supposed to use a lot of magpro, maybe 2mls per gallon max. I've heard of some using just magpro and foliage pro from seed to harvest but for me, magpro doesn't take up a lot of my ppm and therefore isn't affecting the NPK ratio too much.


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## ozzy (Nov 8, 2011)

homebrewer can i use my left over AN for grow and use Dyna-gro Bloom and Pro-TeKt for budding in sunshine mix #4 ? I am in Canada and cant find any locally and I bought some in the USA and its getting shipped to me. I just bought the Dyna-gro Bloom gallon and Pro-TeKt gallon because shipping is crazy. Is this enough for flowering? I have ph up and down if needed. What should I keep PH at for bloom? 6?


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## homebrewer (Nov 8, 2011)

ozzy said:


> homebrewer can i use my left over AN for grow and use Dyna-gro Bloom and Pro-TeKt for budding in sunshine mix #4 ? I am in Canada and cant find any locally and I bought some in the USA and its getting shipped to me. I just bought the Dyna-gro Bloom gallon and Pro-TeKt gallon because shipping is crazy. Is this enough for flowering? I have ph up and down if needed.


 I've experimented with different veg formulas and ratios and honestly I could never see a difference in growth patterns or structure. So yes, your AN for veg will work fine. Bloom and protekt will work well in flower but if you see some light green leaves at the bottom of your plants later in flower, don't be afraid to hit them with some grow formula to keep them green.


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## ozzy (Nov 8, 2011)

ok thanks but didnt order any grow, that blew the shipping costs thru the roof. Im sure it will be ok if a the bottoms get a little yellow. Should the PH be around 6?


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## homebrewer (Nov 8, 2011)

ozzy said:


> ok thanks but didnt order any grow, that blew the shipping costs thru the roof. Im sure it will be ok if a the bottoms get a little yellow. Should the PH be around 6?


 I shoot for mid 6's or so in the dirt.


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## ozzy (Nov 8, 2011)

What would be a good feeding schedule for flowering? Do I give them nutes, water, nutes, water etc...like i did with AN or do you have any other suggestions? Sunshine mix#4 is a soiless mix. Or do i give them the nutes all the time until flushing time?
Thanks for all your help


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## Someguy15 (Nov 8, 2011)

ozzy said:


> What would be a good feeding schedule for flowering? Do I give them nutes, water, nutes, water etc...like i did with AN or do you have any other suggestions? Sunshine mix#4 is a soiless mix. Or do i give them the nutes all the time until flushing time?
> Thanks for all your help


 I would feed consistently, but at a lower dose. Follow the 'drain 2 waste' schedule which is usually around half, and monitor the plants from there. If they look hungry bump it up a touch, if over fed lower it a touch, or have a plain watering day here and there. You goal is to keep the EC in the root zone as consistent as possible at your target EC and PH. Soiless Ph is 5.9 if I remember correctly from the riddleman.


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## CanniCastro420 (Nov 15, 2011)

I just got my shipment Dyna-Gro. I got a gallon of Grow, Pro-tekt, and Mag-Pro. I think my gallon of Grow is bad. When I picked it up, there was the sound of solids @ the bottom. Being curious, I emptied the liquid into a clean 5 gallon bucket and collected the solids. There was over 98 grams of a calcium-like material, as well as a clear crystalline material. I'm waiting to call Dyna-Gro, as well as the place i bought it from. At the moment I'm waiting for it to be business hrs (Dyna-Gro, & the store I ordered from is on the West Coast and I am not, lol).


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## CanniCastro420 (Nov 15, 2011)

I just wanted to follow on my last post. I spoke with Dyna-Gro. The crystals are from colder temp exposure. They weren't too sure on the calcium like stuff. Said it was most likely P or sulphur. They said to use jug as normal, then when 1/2 has been used to top off with hot water, shake and double dosage.


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## homebrewer (Nov 15, 2011)

CanniCastro420 said:


> I just wanted to follow on my last post. I spoke with Dyna-Gro. The crystals are from colder temp exposure. They weren't too sure on the calcium like stuff. Said it was most likely P or sulphur. They said to use jug as normal, then when 1/2 has been used to top off with hot water, shake and double dosage.


 Add 5mls of grow into a gallon of water, what does your TDS meter read? What scale is your meter on?

I've encountered some freezing at the bottom of some of my bloom jugs but it hasn't affected the consistency of the product (from a ppm perspective and a performance perspective).


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## shnkrmn (Nov 15, 2011)

I often have had precipitates in Dyna-gro, but it has not affected performance. That sounds like a lot of solid matter though.



CanniCastro420 said:


> I just got my shipment Dyna-Gro. I got a gallon of Grow, Pro-tekt, and Mag-Pro. I think my gallon of Grow is bad. When I picked it up, there was the sound of solids @ the bottom. Being curious, I emptied the liquid into a clean 5 gallon bucket and collected the solids. There was over 98 grams of a calcium-like material, as well as a clear crystalline material. I'm waiting to call Dyna-Gro, as well as the place i bought it from. At the moment I'm waiting for it to be business hrs (Dyna-Gro, & the store I ordered from is on the West Coast and I am not, lol).


----------



## CanniCastro420 (Nov 15, 2011)

I tested 5ml in a gallon of water. H20 before test was 114 ppm and had a EC of 163 us/cm or .163 ms/cm. Final read with grow was 622 ppm and 897 us/cm or .897 ms/cm ( my meter reads microseimens, not milliseimens). I've set my tester to the .7 conversion scale. What temp co efficiency (or beta) should the pen be set @? It is currently set for 1.9. I have a Hanna model HI 98129 combo pen.


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## homebrewer (Nov 15, 2011)

CanniCastro420 said:


> I tested 5ml in a gallon of water. H20 before test was 114 ppm and had a EC of 163 us/cm or .163 ms/cm. final read with grow was 622 ppm and 897 us/cm or .897 ms/cm ( my meter reads microseimens, not milliseimens).


 Where did you get your gallon of _grow_? Assuming you measured correctly, each of your mls equals around 102 ppm. 1ml of my grow measures in the upper 120's. We're both on the same scale too so it looks like some of your ppms are bonded at the bottom of your bottle. I do not know if it'll be an issue but is there any chance you can return that for a fresh jug? 

Even with a few chunks at the bottom of my _bloom _bottles, the ppms have always been consistent from bottle to bottle. Yours seems to be a little off unless another DG user wants to chime in with their readings?


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## CanniCastro420 (Nov 15, 2011)

I bought it online from Greentrees Hydroponics (www.hydroponics.net). I was hoping to avoid this. I wanted to get my clones this week. I have a Bubba Kush and a Blue Dream clone just waiting to be picked up. so my batch is aprox 20 ppm per ml less than the average jug, so just under 20% less potent? Considering its a wk back and forth to get in mail (round trip), can I get by and just add 20% more? Or should I push back a wk and ask for new jug?


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## homebrewer (Nov 15, 2011)

CanniCastro420 said:


> I bought it online from Greentrees Hydroponics (www.hydroponics.net). I was hoping to avoid this. I wanted to get my clones this week. I have a Bubba Kush and a Blue Dream clone just waiting to be picked up. so my batch is aprox 20 ppm per ml less than the average jug? Considering its a wk back and forth to get in mail (round trip), can I get by, Homebrewer? Or should I push back a wk and ask for new jug?


So DG says the chunks at the bottom are either sulfur or phosphorus? If that's the case, you've got magpro which has both of those minerals. If it were me, I'd take it back to my local store because I like consistency, but given your situation, I really don't think using the _grow_ as-is will hurt anything. 

Also, DG has always been great over the phone and if they thought there was an issue, they'd have told you not to use it. They want your business and selling crappy products to newbs is not what they do to get customers to return . Keep us posted!


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## CanniCastro420 (Nov 15, 2011)

Thats what the woman said, forgot to catch her name. She was really nice. If I went local, I would just return it. So I'll just try adding 20% more when I get my babies. Thanx again Homebrewer! You da man!


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## Trichy Bastard (Nov 16, 2011)

Although having a lower PPM seems consistent with the fallout, there is always the possibility your meter needs calibrating, 20% isn't too much of a discretion in the grand scheme if you need to get by, but the question is if it is all of the same element, in which case it may be more significant of an issue.


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## irishboy (Nov 19, 2011)

so far every bottle ive bought has gone chunky on me but the mag/pro is ok. ive never had nute get chunky on me like this?


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## irishboy (Nov 19, 2011)

CanniCastro420 said:


> I just wanted to follow on my last post. I spoke with Dyna-Gro. The crystals are from colder temp exposure. They weren't too sure on the calcium like stuff. Said it was most likely P or sulphur. They said to use jug as normal, then when 1/2 has been used to top off with hot water, shake and double dosage.


thats not true because ive had it in warm temps also so its not from cold temps.


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 19, 2011)

Ive had this happen with many nute lines/ companys and I used to just return the stuff but over time I just
Started useing it!


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## irishboy (Nov 19, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Ive had this happen with many nute lines/ companys and I used to just return the stuff but over time I just
> Started useing it!


cant say i have but haven't used too many lines just Age old, GH and a few others. DG sure rocked out my grow though and i love the stuff found the combo with a few additives to get crazy frost.


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## UPNSMOKE23 (Nov 21, 2011)

HB When u first get your clones in your big rockwool what's the flood schedule a day? I tried doing three times but it gets water logged then two and its still the same. Im thinking of doing 1 a day till lots of roots are out and healthy then work my way up. What's your two cents?


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## homebrewer (Nov 21, 2011)

UPNSMOKE23 said:


> HB When u first get your clones in your big rockwool what's the flood schedule a day? I tried doing three times but it gets water logged then two and its still the same. Im thinking of doing 1 a day till lots of roots are out and healthy then work my way up. What's your two cents?


One flood per day and I'll top water 12 hours after they were flooded to help establish roots. After about 4 days, I move to a flood every 12 hours and no more top-watering.


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## CanniCastro420 (Nov 30, 2011)

I just wanted to follow up on the Dyna Gro nutes. Been using for a couple of wks now. Despite the solids, the plants don't seem to be lacking anything nutritionally. I did notice last wk a very slight magnesium deficiency, but I added a few mls of Mag pro, and all set. Thanks again Homebrewer, and everyone else who had input. I'm hoping to start a thread within the wk.


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## Rick Ratlin (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm looking to correct a mag deficiency as well, but i run a sterile nutrient tank with h2o2, so I'd like to foliar feed with mag pro, any suggestions as too how much to mix, and when in the dark period to foliar feed.


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## homebrewer (Dec 3, 2011)

Rick Ratlin said:


> I'm looking to correct a mag deficiency as well, but i run a sterile nutrient tank with h2o2, so I'd like to foliar feed with mag pro, any suggestions as too how much to mix, and when in the dark period to foliar feed.


 FWIW, magpro makes up about 15-20% of my total ppm when using RO and I don't think I've had issues with magnesium.


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## Rick Ratlin (Dec 3, 2011)

using 5 ml protect, 10 ml bloom, 1 ml magpro per gallon week 1-2 and then 2ml per gallon the rest of the way never above 1.2 EC, is that as much mag pro that you use hb?


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## homebrewer (Dec 3, 2011)

Rick Ratlin said:


> using 5 ml protect, 10 ml bloom, 1 ml magpro per gallon week 1-2 and then 2ml per gallon the rest of the way never above 1.2 EC, is that as much mag pro that you use hb?


 I think that is a shiz load of P in that mixture to be honest. I kinda found to balance out the P in the magpro, I needed to add some grow in the mix. Grow would make up something like 25% of my total ppms during the first half of flowering.


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## burrr (Dec 3, 2011)

Rick Ratlin said:


> I'm looking to correct a mag deficiency as well, but i run a sterile nutrient tank with h2o2, so I'd like to foliar feed with mag pro, any suggestions as too how much to mix, and when in the dark period to foliar feed.


Mag pro will go just fine in your sterile rez. It is crystal clear.


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## burrr (Dec 3, 2011)

HB. what do you think about the sulfur content in dynagro? none is shown on the label, % wise. But I do see that sum of the salts in grow and bloom are sulfates of some sort. I might try to do a round with some well water added to RO, and skip the mag pro. It looks like it might be my only source of sulfur, but I bet my 250ppm well water has some sulfur in it.


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## burrr (Dec 3, 2011)

burrr said:


> HB. what do you think about the sulfur content in dynagro? none is shown on the label, % wise. But I do see that sum of the salts in grow and bloom are sulfates of some sort. I might try to do a round with some well water added to RO, and skip the mag pro. It looks like it might be my only source of sulfur, but I bet my 250ppm well water has some sulfur in it.


I was looking at the dyna-gro site, and sure enough they list sulfur at .05%. I coulda swore that the jug did not show any sulfar!, i might have just been stoned... who knows.


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## unohu69 (Dec 3, 2011)

pretty roots in a cheap bubbler, just for kiks.



only thing here is DG protek, and DG grow. water ph'd of course. Im amazed at how healthy the roots are. not sure how much air is sufficient, but seems to be ok so far. This was just swapped into the coffee can today, was running in a much smaller container.



earlier pic:


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## homebrewer (Dec 4, 2011)

burrr said:


> HB. what do you think about the sulfur content in dynagro? none is shown on the label, % wise. But I do see that sum of the salts in grow and bloom are sulfates of some sort. I might try to do a round with some well water added to RO, and skip the mag pro. It looks like it might be my only source of sulfur, but I bet my 250ppm well water has some sulfur in it.


Their website lists .09% sulfur in their bloom formula but that does not appear on the label. I suppose that's a little low compared to other brands but I haven't seen any problems resulting from that. Magpro offers 1.5% sulfur which is a healthy dose and that's kinda why I use magpro.


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## Rick Ratlin (Dec 4, 2011)

Thanks guys, so what do you recommend I bump the magpro up to, as I never use more than 2 ml. Just worried I'll have too much phosphorous in my tank. HB I'll switch up my first few weeks to 5 ml Protekt, 2 ml grow, 8 ml bloom, 1 ml of magpro, that sound good? Hydroton, ebb and flow 6 times a day. Thanks!


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## homebrewer (Dec 4, 2011)

Rick Ratlin said:


> Thanks guys, so what do you recommend I bump the magpro up to, as I never use more than 2 ml. Just worried I'll have too much phosphorous in my tank. HB I'll switch up my first few weeks to 5 ml Protekt, 2 ml grow, 8 ml bloom, 1 ml of magpro, that sound good? Hydroton, ebb and flow 6 times a day. Thanks!


 Sounds pretty solid to me. If you see any yellow leaves, trade out 1ml of bloom for 1ml of grow.


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## bishs (Dec 7, 2011)

quick question.

when do you start using 1-3-2? when stretch has stopped? or when the lights have been turned to 12/12? 

so during the stretch could i use mayb foliage pro at 3-1-2 ?


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## tenthirty (Dec 7, 2011)

HB,

Do you think that you could look at my plant problems. https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/493384-what-deficiancy-do-you-think.html

I'm using Dyna Grow and trying to follow your mythologies.

Thanks!!


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## homebrewer (Dec 8, 2011)

bishs said:


> quick question.
> 
> when do you start using 1-3-2? when stretch has stopped? or when the lights have been turned to 12/12?
> 
> so during the stretch could i use mayb foliage pro at 3-1-2 ?


I like 1-3-2 during the second half of flower. The ratio of grow-to-bloom isn't an exact science so play around with it and use what works best for you. 



tenthirty said:


> HB,
> 
> Do you think that you could look at my plant problems. https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/493384-what-deficiancy-do-you-think.html
> 
> ...


In your first post you said you've got 4 inch blocks and are flooding once per day for 5 minutes. I think you need to flood more often for a longer period of time. Remember to leach your blocks of salts every few weeks with tap water.


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## fallinprince (Dec 10, 2011)

Hey homebrewer. Ive been awol for a while but i have a new grow style based exactly off of yours. Ive currently got 3 problems
1. ive noticed on top of my 6inch rockwool blocks (that get flooded for 15minutes 2 times a day) chunks of white stuff and patches of green area's. 
My tap water is awful 470tds w/chlorine and fluoride). I do own an old container of clearex. But ive been just pouring r/o water over the top of the blocks every 1-2 weeks to try to leech salts w/o any luck

2. Its now winter so my high temps never go above 75 but my lows get down to 61ish will this hurt the plants should i try to figure out how to heat the room while the lights are off?

3. I had a plant outside of my tent of plants in veg herm on me(killed it off 2 weeks early). Can that ruin my crop of veg plants that were growing nearby?


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## Someguy15 (Dec 10, 2011)

fallinprince said:


> Hey homebrewer. Ive been awol for a while but i have a new grow style based exactly off of yours. Ive currently got 3 problems
> 1. ive noticed on top of my 6inch rockwool blocks (that get flooded for 15minutes 2 times a day) chunks of white stuff and patches of green area's.
> My tap water is awful 470tds w/chlorine and fluoride). I do own an old container of clearex. But ive been just pouring r/o water over the top of the blocks every 1-2 weeks to try to leech salts w/o any luck
> 
> ...


 1) Salts are just kinda inherent with the blocks. Most people just leave the salt on the top, there's no roots up there anyways to worry about. The rootzone is what matters. The green stuff is alge, buy some block covers, their $5.

2) That's a little on the cool side, you want 77 day for optimal growth. When you get below that you start stunting growth. The plants will tolerate 60 air temp no problem, but I would check you root zone temps. They are much more sensitive. Root zone optimal = 77 (day) 73(night), ideal = 70-80. Anything much below 70 and you can lock out P leading to big problems.

3) As long as you killed him early enough before the pollen was released you will be fine. If not, then it depends on air currents, how much was on you, ect.


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## tenthirty (Dec 10, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I like 1-3-2 during the second half of flower. The ratio of grow-to-bloom isn't an exact science so play around with it and use what works best for you.
> 
> 
> In your first post you said you've got 4 inch blocks and are flooding once per day for 5 minutes. I think you need to flood more often for a longer period of time. Remember to leach your blocks of salts every few weeks with tap water.


So I upped my feeding to twice a day and 7 minutes. The table fills in 3 minutes.
First feeding a 30 minutes after lights on and the second 6 hours later. Should this be ok?

I have the white covers (like panda film) over the rock wool. So when I flush, I purchased a watering wand. Should I just pickup the covers and squirt water into the rock wool? Also how long should I squirt the blocks?

Thanks in advance.


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## lerster (Dec 11, 2011)

Hi HB,

Im a fairly new to growing 2 1/2 harvest under my belt, after going through all your journals I am switching to DG from AN. I am currently using 3 part AN, Big bud, b-52, bud candy, over drive, and proteckt. I now know how much of a sucker I am to fall into their trap but anyway I wanted to ask for you feed recipe or schedule if you will and all the supps or bennies you are using. I am thinking of getting DG bloom, grow, magpro, proteckt, Great white, and bud candy. I am using 30 gallon rez, ebb and flow, 6 inch rockwools. Can you tell me how many ml per gal i should use? Can I use overdrive with it or big bud? Thanks HB


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## homebrewer (Dec 11, 2011)

tenthirty said:


> So I upped my feeding to twice a day and 7 minutes. The table fills in 3 minutes.
> First feeding a 30 minutes after lights on and the second 6 hours later. Should this be ok?


Time will tell, just keep the plants healthy. 



> I have the white covers (like panda film) over the rock wool. So when I flush, I purchased a watering wand. Should I just pickup the covers and squirt water into the rock wool? Also how long should I squirt the blocks?


That sounds like it should work just fine. 




lerster said:


> Hi HB,
> 
> Im a fairly new to growing 2 1/2 harvest under my belt, after going through all your journals I am switching to DG from AN. I am currently using 3 part AN, Big bud, b-52, bud candy, over drive, and proteckt. I now know how much of a sucker I am to fall into their trap but anyway I wanted to ask for you feed recipe or schedule if you will and all the supps or bennies you are using. I am thinking of getting DG bloom, grow, magpro, proteckt, Great white, and bud candy. I am using 30 gallon rez, ebb and flow, 6 inch rockwools. Can you tell me how many ml per gal i should use? Can I use overdrive with it or big bud? Thanks HB


I think in recent posts, I pretty much go over what my res is made up of in regards to percentages of each product. I would not use big bud or overdrive with DG nutes.


----------



## lerster (Dec 11, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Time will tell, just keep the plants healthy.
> 
> 
> That sounds like it should work just fine.
> ...


Could you please direct to me which page? I am getting lost in a sea of information


----------



## lerster (Dec 11, 2011)

nevermind found it lol, thanks HB!


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 11, 2011)

Ok homebrew im pulling a fresh run of clones, and as soon as there rooted up il be fireing up the new nutes!
And doing a full right up on it


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## burrr (Dec 12, 2011)

HB, I've got a couple of small plants in veg that have been taking a long time to get happy in their 6" blocks. they exhibit slow growth with red stems. I believe this is from being over watered ( was 3 times for 15 minutes, flooded to the top of the block) I reduced this to twice a day, halfway up the block and things appear to be improving.
Have you ever experienced this red stem condition from over watering RW blocks before? 

Grodan mentions on their website that moving a small plant in to a big block can have this stress causing affect, but don't explain what kind of stress it is. what are your thoughts on this? thanks


----------



## homebrewer (Dec 12, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Ok homebrew im pulling a fresh run of clones, and as soon as there rooted up il be fireing up the new nutes!
> And doing a full right up on it


Will you be journaling it or at least posting updates in a current thread you have going? I'd love to follow along.





burrr said:


> HB, I've got a couple of small plants in veg that have been taking a long time to get happy in their 6" blocks. they exhibit slow growth with red stems. I believe this is from being over watered ( was 3 times for 15 minutes, flooded to the top of the block) I reduced this to twice a day, halfway up the block and things appear to be improving.
> Have you ever experienced this red stem condition from over watering RW blocks before?
> 
> Grodan mentions on their website that moving a small plant in to a big block can have this stress causing affect, but don't explain what kind of stress it is. what are your thoughts on this? thanks


When I move rooted cuttings into the 6" blocks, I'll flood once per day for 15mins, then 12 hours later, I'll top water them with a pint of res water. That's how I do it for roughly the first 4 days before switching to two floods and no top waterings. My cuttings do not look all that great sometimes when they go into my rockwool blocks. BUT, once those roots get established (usually about a week after they move to rockwool), they explode. They explode almost to a fault though and I've been experimenting with lowering my feeding levels in veg to minimize some stretchy growth.


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 12, 2011)

Yep il use the same thread to document the switch


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## bob stine (Dec 13, 2011)

Hi Homebrewer, i've been following your threads for quite some time (mainly because you use dyna-gro) anyways i'm currently working on my npk values and i noticed you like 1-3-2 ... i been using something in the lines of 1-1.5-2 i find it hard without mag-pro to obtain your numbers (mag-pro) isnt local to here, but anyways i hardly ever post and i'm currently writing a spread sheet based on dyna-gro with other nutrients i just recently found out that the stated npks are lies and that P and K values need to be factor'd by other numbers (.43 for P and .83 for K)to obtain their true values , but anyways i was just saying hi and you really share too much good info man no lie keep up the good work ps... i hope to obtain an npk of 1.2.2 soon but i guess i'm gonna have to order mag-pro online i notice dynagro is really lacking in the sulfates without it


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## 1and1 (Dec 14, 2011)

Thanks for the thread. I'm sure you've saved at least a few people the expense and hassle of drinking the kool aid and buying AN's "whole lineup".


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## Rick Ratlin (Dec 14, 2011)

View attachment 1934176View attachment 1934179Just some Dyna grow shots, Blubonic day 52 before cut, and lady burn 1974 at 35 days. Thanks Homebrewer!


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## rsxr0884 (Dec 17, 2011)

Hey Homebrewer long time fan of ur DG threads. I gotta a few questions regarding my feeding right now. Im running n ebb and gro with hydroton feeding 3x a day for 15 mins with RO water. Im currently using 10ml grow 5ml pro tek and 2ml of mag pro per gallon. my ppms are at 1030. My EC is about 1.2-1.3. Im using a little more mag pro because my leaves seem to have mag deficiency. Theyre clones that were transplanted 4 days ago and I figured the mag pro would solve this + Ive been reading that the chocolope strain is a cal mag hog. I read that u dont like to use mag pro in veg because it is a bloom booster. Should I disregard the magpro?

For flowering I plan on using the same formula but taking out grow for bloom. Only in the first 2 weeks of flowering will I bump down the bloom and replace the missing bloom with grow to prevent yellowing in the transition. Does this feeding seem like over kill?


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## homebrewer (Dec 17, 2011)

rsxr0884 said:


> Hey Homebrewer long time fan of ur DG threads. I gotta a few questions regarding my feeding right now. Im running n ebb and gro with hydroton feeding 3x a day for 15 mins with RO water. Im currently using 10ml grow 5ml pro tek and 2ml of mag pro per gallon. my ppms are at 1030. My EC is about 1.2-1.3. Im using a little more mag pro because my leaves seem to have mag deficiency. Theyre clones that were transplanted 4 days ago and I figured the mag pro would solve this + Ive been reading that the chocolope strain is a cal mag hog. I read that u dont like to use mag pro in veg because it is a bloom booster. Should I disregard the magpro?


Do you have a hanna meter? You're feeding _clones_ at over 2.0 EC right now with your grow, protekt and magpro combination. If you're seeing any kind of leaf discoloration, it's from over-feeding. 


> For flowering I plan on using the same formula but taking out grow for bloom. Only in the first 2 weeks of flowering will I bump down the bloom and replace the missing bloom with grow to prevent yellowing in the transition. Does this feeding seem like over kill?


Why would you feed baby clones and mature flowering females at the same levels? 

Do some research on your meter and find out what scale you're on. I have a feeling you're on the .5 scale. I feed vegging plants at .7 EC and flowering plants at 1.1-1.2 EC. Knowing what scale you're on and correctly converting to EC is paramount.


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## rsxr0884 (Dec 17, 2011)

Its a hanna at .5 and Yea ur right about the feeding the same schedules. Im gonna trash the solution flush and start over. WOuld .5 EC for clones and 1.0 for flowering be a good starting point to figure out what would be a good EC for a particular strain?


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## homebrewer (Dec 17, 2011)

rsxr0884 said:


> Its a hanna at .5 and Yea ur right about the feeding the same schedules. Im gonna trash the solution flush and start over. WOuld .5 EC for clones and 1.0 for flowering be a good starting point to figure out what would be a good EC for a particular strain?


Check out this chart for converting to EC properly: http://www.gardenscure.com/420/hydroponics/96521-printable-ec-ppm-cf-conversion-chart.html

My numbers above for veg and flowering have yet to be offensive to any strain I've grown. .5 and 1.0 EC are fine (250 and 500ppm for you on your scale), just a touch conservative for my tastes but you'll do _much_ better there than where you're at right now . Good luck!


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## irishboy (Dec 22, 2011)

this is what i am using from start to finish on my next grow. dont think the bloom is needed and the veg will do great all the way threw, the CEO of DG even told me this back in the day and said they only made the bloom because people wanted it, but their tissue sample show the veg would be better. my roots should also be great.lol

View attachment 1950758


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## hogs (Dec 23, 2011)

Irish, Just wondering why you wd. use the KLN start to finish??


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## burrr (Dec 23, 2011)

and why the hygrozyme?


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## albsure (Dec 23, 2011)

Funny I just got an email two days ago from a phd. there at dyna gro answering my questions about feeding and he said just the opposite. I seriously doubt Dyna Gro would send me this feeding schedule http://www.dyna-gro.com/Website%20pdf%20Files/DG%20Hydroponic%20Feeding%20Chart.pdf where it shows discontinuing the use of the Grow product after four weeks for all types of growing methods, if it harmed any plants. I also seriously doubt they would do this in order to sell different products because if not using the Grow after four weeks actually harmed plants, it wouldn't take long for the word to get out and people would stop using their products; and I don't see how that would help sales. 

It just doesn't make sense to me for a company that prides itself on the {science} of growing to recommend a feeding schedule that would harm plants. I've been following their advice from the start of my grow, using the maintenance recommendations on the bottles except I discontinued the use of the grow product after five weeks of vegging, I'm just starting the fourth week of flower, and I don't see how my plants could look any healthier. I'm going to up the amount of bloom used and lessen the amount of Mag-Pro based on this feeding schedule. I'm doing a soil grow so I think it's a little bit easier but he did say that based on the amount of lighting you are using you may have to use more of the products if intense levels of light are used or a little less if low levels of light are used and based on how the plant responds.

Based on my results and the recommendation from an expert at the company, I personally wouldn't use just the grow throughout and I would definitely use the bloom. My experience is that I saw rapid blooming when I started using that product and I haven't seen any signs of Nitrogen deficiency. If I do I will add a small amount of grow. I'm growing a Mandala strain plus a skunk/haze strain I got as freebies and they are all doing beautifully. It really has gone without a hitch with beautiful green lush growth from the start and up to this point; I also think really good seeds have helped a great deal too. I also highly recommend Mandala seeds. I planted five seeds, they all germinated and they all grew very well. Two very healthy males, they were big studs too, had to be pulled and all the girls are real winners. 

I know I'll be using these Dyna-Gro products in my next grow which is going to be a Water Farm grow and I'm pretty excited about it. Honestly I think these products are so good, I was introduced to them on the Garden Web site by a guy who goes by the name Tapla and he is the indoor gardening guru there and it's all he uses, I think you'd have to try hard to screw up with them; hell maybe using the grow without the bloom will work but I wouldn't do it. They really are solid. They also seem to be cheap to use. Hell I bet I have nearly 90-95% of the stuff left in each bottle and I'm nearly done with my grow. I may have spent $85 on their products and I'm sure they are going to last me a couple of years and many grows. I may have used $8-10 worth of their products on this grow. I've got five healthy plants, so $2 a plant. Money well spent in my book.

View attachment 1950758[/QUOTE]



irishboy said:


> this is what i am using from start to finish on my next grow. dont think the bloom is needed and the veg will do great all the way threw, the CEO of DG even told me this back in the day and said they only made the bloom because people wanted it, but their tissue sample show the veg would be better. my roots should also be great.lol


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## homebrewer (Dec 23, 2011)

albsure said:


> Funny I just got an email two days ago from a phd. there at dyna gro answering my questions about feeding and he said just the opposite. I seriously doubt Dyna Gro would send me this feeding schedule http://www.dyna-gro.com/Website pdf Files/DG Hydroponic Feeding Chart.pdf where it shows discontinuing the use of the Grow product after four weeks for all types of growing methods, if it harmed any plants.


That feeding schedule is outrageously high for a recirculating system and I'd consider their soil feeding program aggressive at times. That feeding chart is only a guideline and should only be used as an example of how a grower can tailor their own program. Grow, bloom, protekt and magpro are tools and can be used at any time during the life cycle should you plants look like they need them. That being said, Grow and Protekt should be more than adequate for veg and I use all four in flower depending on the needs of the plants.

Again, do not follow that schedule literally, it's only a guideline. 

My own strain at day 21 (1.1 EC):


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## shnkrmn (Dec 23, 2011)

Dyna-gro-ho-ho-ho-ho! Merry Christmas!

(Sorry, couldn't resist)


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## albsure (Dec 23, 2011)

Yeah I have no intention of following it literally but I also have no intention of completely ignoring the schedule as one person suggested by leaving out the bloom product and using the grow all the way through. Dyna Gro also recommended adjusting when it was suggested that the amount of lighting will make a big difference and the dosage should be adjusted accordingly. I also said that if the plants show any signs of a nitrogen deficiency I would add some grow. You definitely have to watch your plants but I feel that the guidelines have done right by me so far. The main point is that DG have good products, they are easy to use and give great results at a cheap price.


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## bishs (Dec 23, 2011)

does anyone have issues with dyna gro lowering ph over time?


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## smokeymcpotterton (Dec 23, 2011)

Read the thread bishs, it is all explained. It is probably the most ph stable nute out there.

Plants are looking incredible homebrewer!


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## irishboy (Dec 23, 2011)

hogs said:


> Irish, Just wondering why you wd. use the KLN start to finish??


sorry not the KLN all the way threw


burrr said:


> and why the hygrozyme?


ive been told from everyone that every used it that they love it and makes nice roots and keep things eal clean. thought i would give it a try


albsure said:


> Yeah I have no intention of following it literally but I also have no intention of completely ignoring the schedule as one person suggested by leaving out the bloom product and using the grow all the way through. Dyna Gro also recommended adjusting when it was suggested that the amount of lighting will make a big difference and the dosage should be adjusted accordingly. I also said that if the plants show any signs of a nitrogen deficiency I would add some grow. You definitely have to watch your plants but I feel that the guidelines have done right by me so far. The main point is that DG have good products, they are easy to use and give great results at a cheap price.


to each is their own. i know what i know and have talked to grows that did it both ways and now only use grow all the way threw and like their results better. our plants like more N in bloom and ive tested this out and last time i got 2liter size buds.lol. the CEO of DG even read off his tissue sample he had done talking about what the NPK and micros were used more. 
i never said anything about harming plants just said i was told the bloom was not needed and i feel the same. one way to find out. you should stick to the bloom it did good for me in the past just think the grow will do better for me in flowering

those 2 liter size buds in my avatar were grown with high N in bloom real high infact. Jacks classic also uses high N and dose great.


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## bishs (Dec 23, 2011)

smokeymcpotterton said:


> Read the thread bishs, it is all explained. It is probably the most ph stable nute out there.
> 
> Plants are looking incredible homebrewer!


..... i've read the thread. this is why i'm asking if anyone else is having issues with PH dropping. I'm using 3:1 bloom, 2ml mag pro, 5ml pro-tek at 600 ppm inr RO, ph lands at 5.8 when first mixing nutes. drops to 4.9 in a few days.

silly child, im going to assume that the res is too small.


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## smokeymcpotterton (Dec 23, 2011)

Bishs, all I can say is "really"? That your calling me a child... Lets look at your first post:

"Does anyone have issues w/ dynagro lowering ph over time"

This in no way implies that you are growing, using dynagro, or even INTEND to use dynagro, it simply seems you are asking a ballpark question regarding the ph properties of dynagro. Hence why I said "read the thread". Now in your second post, you give us a bit more info, and a bit more to go on.

So why resort to petty name calling? It should not have even have had to have come to this, of me having to point these things out, why can't people just recognize these things for themselves...

As far as your issue w/ the dynagro: I don't know. Sounds like you just have something you have to work w/.


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## burrr (Dec 23, 2011)

bishs said:


> ..... i've read the thread. this is why i'm asking if anyone else is having issues with PH dropping. I'm using 3:1 bloom, 2ml mag pro, 5ml pro-tek at 600 ppm inr RO, ph lands at 5.8 when first mixing nutes. drops to 4.9 in a few days.
> 
> silly child, im going to assume that the res is too small.


Bish, I experience some ph drop. it becomes more noticeable late in the bloom cycle. I always dilute my ph up before adding to the rez.
I check daily, and get a drop from 6.0 to 5.6 at the most.


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## burrr (Dec 23, 2011)

Irish, I'm going the other route and running with just the bloom nutes. I'll add some cal mag for my nitrogen boost, its calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate. I'm also trying to skip out on the mag-pro by adding a dash of epsom salt to the rez. From reading up on one part nutes, they are often a little lacking in sulfur. They have to keep levels low to prevent it from combining with the calcium while in concentrate.


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## bishs (Dec 23, 2011)

Thanks Burr you are quite informative.


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## irishboy (Dec 23, 2011)

burrr said:


> Irish, I'm going the other route and running with just the bloom nutes. I'll add some cal mag for my nitrogen boost, its calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate. I'm also trying to skip out on the mag-pro by adding a dash of epsom salt to the rez. From reading up on one part nutes, they are often a little lacking in sulfur. They have to keep levels low to prevent it from combining with the calcium while in concentrate.


ive went that route with other nutes kinda like the Lucas form and it did great for me. i dont really think the mag is needed for its NPK but the micro are nice in it and help with quality IMO. but i rather use some gunao teas with casting and kelp. i got crazy quality with that and DG my lat grow. we will put our data together and see what we come up with bro, testing things out is how we find out. i really want to see the hydrozime in action ive heard nothing but great things from lots of growers and very trusted growers.cheap VF-11 nutes use with Hydrozyme in 85F temps


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## irishboy (Dec 23, 2011)

heres a branch i grew in 110F temps indoors with also real high N nutes cost me $10 and all i did was mix in my soil and just feed water. this is why i am going back to high N and the DG grow is not even as close as i had on that grow. these are just a few branches.


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## burrr (Dec 23, 2011)

irishboy said:


> heres a branch i grew in 110F temps indoors with also real high N nutes cost me $10 and all i did was mix in my soil and just feed water. this is why i am going back to high N and the DG grow is not even as close as i had on that grow. these are just a few branches.




those are some great looking buds! did you have 110 temps all the way through? what were the low temps and humidity?

I did a round of durban poison with bloom and proteck only, and had great results. I'm reading from this that Nitrogen levels can vary greatly, and still work fine, as long as there is enough and not too much. There are lots of different sources of nitrogen, and I've heard that calcium nitrate is the most DWC friendly.


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## irishboy (Dec 24, 2011)

burrr said:


> those are some great looking buds! did you have 110 temps all the way through? what were the low temps and humidity?
> 
> I did a round of durban poison with bloom and proteck only, and had great results. I'm reading from this that Nitrogen levels can vary greatly, and still work fine, as long as there is enough and not too much. There are lots of different sources of nitrogen, and I've heard that calcium nitrate is the most DWC friendly.


i think the coolest was 98F in that grow? it was 100F+ most time and that was threw the while grow. RH% was like 12-15% i found out the trick also this last grow to growing in high temps. 1st is i use leds so i have no radiant heat burning my plants, 2nd the key is to run ur lights on the hotter parts of the day so ur lights off has atleast a 5-10F diff. i use to run at nights and it would mess with the plants then i thought i was just going agianst mother nature and keep my light times like heres and it worked great. 

their are allot of N types and some will burn ur roots,l another good thing about DG.lol they use good N


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## Trichy Bastard (Dec 27, 2011)

irishboy said:


> this is what i am using from start to finish on my next grow. dont think the bloom is needed and the veg will do great all the way threw, the CEO of DG even told me this back in the day and said they only made the bloom because people wanted it, but their tissue sample show the veg would be better. my roots should also be great.lol
> 
> View attachment 1950758


 When I first used DG years ago- all they had was the grow- it yielded good results and was an extremely simple regimen. I actually forgot about this entirely- thanks for the reminder-lol...


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## tomat0 (Jan 6, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> My own strain at day 21 (1.1 EC):


How did your project turn out? If I had to guess, you're currently stabilizing more phenotypes with ideal traits.


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## homebrewer (Jan 6, 2012)

tomat0 said:


> How did your project turn out? If I had to guess, you're currently stabilizing more phenotypes with ideal traits.


The project turned out really well actually. Out of the 15 initial seeds that I germed, I had 12 females and about 8 different phenos. The goal was never to stabilize anything in seed form or to isolate traits that I liked, I really just wanted some killer F1 clone-only strains. It was hard to let some of those phenos go but I currently have 3 phenos from that cross that I _really_ like and will set aside for future work (they don't need work but I'd love to see what traits they pass on). Hopefully I can post some day 35 pics tomorrow. Another reason I haven't gone to F2s with that strain is because I only got 2 males out of that initial batch and I didn't like either of them. 

I also have other crosses that I'm eager to get into as well as seeds that have been generously gifted to me that I want to work with. Based on time and space constraints, I'd hate to neglect other projects that could be tons of fun.


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## homebrewer (Jan 7, 2012)

This tray has my two favorite phenos in it with a dumpster girl right in the middle. They got a little tall for my tastes but I had some plants in this tray that I timed incorrectly, live-and-learn.



Pheno #1 - She smells like skunk and blueberries and packs an intense, long lasting head high.



Pheno #3 - She tends to grow these tightly packed foxtaily buds that smell like berries and earth and her high is giggly and has lasted up to 4 hours. That's one thing I noticed with this cross, the high is intense and almost annoying long (in a good way).


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## tomat0 (Jan 8, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> The project turned out really well actually. Out of the 15 initial seeds that I germed, I had 12 females and about 8 different phenos. The goal was never to stabilize anything in seed form or to isolate traits that I liked, I really just wanted some killer F1 clone-only strains. It was hard to let some of those phenos go but I currently have 3 phenos from that cross that I _really_ like and will set aside for future work (they don't need work but I'd love to see what traits they pass on). Hopefully I can post some day 35 pics tomorrow. Another reason I haven't gone to F2s with that strain is because I only got 2 males out of that initial batch and I didn't like either of them.
> 
> I also have other crosses that I'm eager to get into as well as seeds that have been generously gifted to me that I want to work with. Based on time and space constraints, I'd hate to neglect other projects that could be tons of fun.


An 80% female batch? Most people would be happy with that ratio!

What's your rough goal for your projects?
I wish I had free access to lab testing and "unrestricted" room to grow... but don't we all?


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## homebrewer (Jan 8, 2012)

tomat0 said:


> What's your rough goal for your projects?


Just to make something completely different than the parents while hopefully finding a plant that physically resembles a blend of both. My main objectives were to find something that was resinous, potent (sativa dominant), smelled pleasantly strong, and yielded well, pretty much in that order.


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## kdub86 (Jan 22, 2012)

Hey HB do you use only the DG grow for veg or do you do the 2:1 ratio for that as well?

EDIT:
Sorry I found the post where you said you use only the grow and pro-tekt in veg, sorry about that!


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## infrared (Feb 12, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Will you be journaling it or at least posting updates in a current thread you have going? I'd love to follow along.



The quote was obv meant for hellraizer and I already PM'd you, homebrewer, but I thought I'd put a little note in here as well that I too have started a journal chronicling my experiences using Dyna-Gro products in a Sunshine #4-based mix.

I've had some trouble with Fox Farm soils and nutrients, so this journal should give some examples for novices who're looking to get out of the muck of marketing and misinformation in favor of mastering cannabis botany. Link below in my sig


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 13, 2012)

My first time try with dyna grow will be post poned for a bit! Not shure when il get things running again.
But when I do il keep you all up to date on it!


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## hornedfrog2000 (Feb 13, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> My first time try with dyna grow will be post poned for a bit! Not shure when il get things running again.
> But when I do il keep you all up to date on it!


What happened man? Saw you canceled that one grow.


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## Someguy15 (Feb 13, 2012)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> What happened man? Saw you canceled that one grow.


He lost power and everything froze, including his rezs lol (not laughing at him, just that that is even possible)


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## hornedfrog2000 (Feb 13, 2012)

Someguy15 said:


> He lost power and everything froze, including his rezs lol


Wow man.... That's the type of shit I worry about. People at work talk about how the roads are, and I'm hoping the power lines don't freeze and kill my pumps haha. Man that sucks.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 13, 2012)

It sucks dude! -25 aint nothing to mess with! Im looking into back up gennys to provent this from ever taking place
Again.


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## homebrewer (Feb 14, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> It sucks dude! -25 aint nothing to mess with! Im looking into back up gennys to provent this from ever taking place
> Again.


Good luck and keep us posted as I was looking forward to your experience with DG.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 14, 2012)

Will do homebrewer


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## hornedfrog2000 (Feb 14, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> It sucks dude! -25 aint nothing to mess with! Im looking into back up gennys to provent this from ever taking place
> Again.


Yeah, it's been pretty mild around here lately, but a few years back it hit something like -45 and you could literally throw water in the air and it would freeze before it hit the ground. Don't even want to think what would happen if the power went out...


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## presentdevil (Mar 19, 2012)

ok so after reading im very convinced in dyna gro! im growing in foxfarms soil and need to know which dyna gro nutes to get?


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## hornedfrog2000 (Mar 19, 2012)

grow bloom protekt mag pro


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## unohu69 (Mar 19, 2012)

Heres what I have:

5 gallon dwc. forgot to ppm check it, but it should be 28-40 ppm

added 

5 gallons water
12.3ml protekt - 105
20ml bloom - 385
5ml grow - 487
40ml an bud candy - 543
15 ml hydro-rush - 816 ppm's 

PH- 6.0 


24 hrs later - PPM 874 ph 6.5 

So, i guess i was wondering what that means? did it only drink water and not feed? i was going to add a gallon of ph 5.8 to it. should i or what. kind of my first full run with a dwc, so still learning. 
my temps have been fluctuating quite a bit lately, weather is all screwy this year.
And before this the plant was run on the sample pack of xnutrients, but they didnt send enough to finish.


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## burrr (Mar 20, 2012)

It means your feeding too much stuff, too high ppm and too high ph.


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## unohu69 (Mar 20, 2012)

ok. before this res change, i was using the xnutrients at the rec levels, my final PPM's were up around 1500. I expected the overall PPM to be lower with DG.
there is no signs of nute burn. I added the gallon of water, it dropped the PPM to like 776. ph is still a little high at 6.4


so your saying i should drop the PPM? After I added it in, i did think maybe that was to much BudCandy, but once in its in.. and 2ml per liter, is wut it is.


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## GreenGiant49 (Mar 20, 2012)

I found that if you used the DG recommended dose, it would be way high from my plant. I ended up using between 1/3 and 1/2 the recommended dose.

If you check your PPM daily, they will either be the same as the previous day, higher or lower. 

If they are the same, then your concentration levels are good.

If they are lower, then you can increase them.

If they are higher, then you have too many nutes and you should cut back on the levels.

Hope this helps.




unohu69 said:


> ok. before this res change, i was using the xnutrients at the rec levels, my final PPM's were up around 1500. I expected the overall PPM to be lower with DG.
> there is no signs of nute burn. I added the gallon of water, it dropped the PPM to like 776. ph is still a little high at 6.4
> 
> 
> so your saying i should drop the PPM? After I added it in, i did think maybe that was to much BudCandy, but once in its in.. and 2ml per liter, is wut it is.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Mar 20, 2012)

Your ppms seem really high imo. I don't know what half that stuff is though.


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## missnu (Mar 20, 2012)

Well I feel like I know more about hydro now...so that is good...it is what i started with...FAIL!!!..


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## unohu69 (Mar 20, 2012)

I agree the DG hydro recommended levels are way to high. I found the Soil numbers are much closer to the measurements i just natural got to from my own experiments. So I wanted to try them as they were, I will back down to my normal levels. i seem to run about 450-550 PPM naturally. like I said the bud candy, and hydro rush might have been a little much. 

the hydro rush adds somewhere around 273 PPM, i dont even know what it consists of, but my res does stay pretty clean. 


Can I just add ph down right in the res? i didnt know if it would create a "hot spot" or anything like that.


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## missnu (Mar 20, 2012)

burrr said:


> I dropped my EC down a little more on my last res change. I'm at .8 EC, using RO water and per gallon: 5ml protek, 6ml bloom, 2ml magpro. My ppm went from 388 to 400 in 24 hours, but my girls drank huge amounts of water. 50% more water usage than most days. I believe my girls like a light diet of nutes. My fan leaves are showing no deficiencies, and the bud leaves still have a little curl on a few of them. I bet I could go through bloom at 420ppm, and grow happy girls.


I have one strain that tries to stroke out at 200 ppm...lol. I just sorta rub the bottle and then touch the plant...seems to take care of all nutritional needs....actually they do the best if I feed them plain water throughout...less yellowing if I give them my tap water at the right pH...it's so hard when all the plants around them get nutes....to not nute those ones...I they are easily recognizable, but still every once in awhile I am like well just a little nutes for this one...but no! None!...lol. I'll throw in between 3-4 individual pellets of peruvian seabird guano...through it's whole life without bad effects...but anything more and it goes downhill...


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## dickkhead (Mar 23, 2012)

so in soiless mix sunshine #4 with gro is 1/2 tsp/gal enough for veg or should I up it? and what about foliage pro how would you feed with this? should I add calcium magnesium or is the mag pro all i need?


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## homebrewer (Mar 23, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> so in soiless mix sunshine #4 with gro is 1/2 tsp/gal enough for veg or should I up it? and what about foliage pro how would you feed with this? should I add calcium magnesium or is the mag pro all i need?


With RO in promix, I feed less than 1/2 tsp/gallon of grow during veg. If I were using foliage pro, I'd feed the same I suppose. Calmag is not needed and I don't use magpro in the dirt.


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## dickkhead (Mar 24, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> With RO in promix, I feed less than 1/2 tsp/gallon of grow during veg. If I were using foliage pro, I'd feed the same I suppose. Calmag is not needed and I don't use magpro in the dirt.


ok do you use mag pro with the soiless mix? crazy how lil nutes you use my plants are thriving with dyna gro thanks for saving my ass back when I almost bought AN!!


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## homebrewer (Mar 24, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> ok do you use mag pro with the soiless mix? crazy how lil nutes you use my plants are thriving with dyna gro thanks for saving my ass back when I almost bought AN!!


If by soiless mix you mean dirt (promix/sunshine mix), the answer is no. I do use magpro in hydro as I found that the magnesium is kind of needed. My RO machine fell and broke not so long ago, went a few months just using my hard tap water which has only about 4ppm of magnesium. My tap water didn't leave a lot of room for magpro so when I wasn't using magpro in hydro, I would get a slight spotting after a few weeks.


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## dickkhead (Mar 25, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> If by soiless mix you mean dirt (promix/sunshine mix), the answer is no. I do use magpro in hydro as I found that the magnesium is kind of needed. My RO machine fell and broke not so long ago, went a few months just using my hard tap water which has only about 4ppm of magnesium. My tap water didn't leave a lot of room for magpro so when I wasn't using magpro in hydro, I would get a slight spotting after a few weeks.


yea Im talking about straight sunshine mix in 5 gallon buckets is what im running. wasnt sure if mag pro in flower was necasarry! thanks HB


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## alienrain (Mar 27, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I&#8217;d highly recommend DynaGro for beginners. Just make sure you have a pH pen and a TDS meter then hit me up for a suggested feeding schedule for dirt or hydro. DG&#8217;s nutes will fry plants at &#8216;normal doses&#8217; because their highly concentrated so that&#8217;s the only thing I&#8217;d tell growers to watch out for.
> .


I tried to PM you, but it's not wanting to work for me. Could I get your suggested feeding schedule for dirt...(I guess sunshine mix and pearlite) It's only for 2 plants and using tap water. (I've got all 4 nutrients from dyna-gro) I'm guessing from the post above that I won't be needing to use magpro since I'm using tap water?

Really enjoying your posts and learning a lot from a veteran of 11 years. Thanks for your help.

Any additional "secret tips" would be very much appreciated.


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## homebrewer (Mar 27, 2012)

alienrain said:


> I tried to PM you, but it's not wanting to work for me. Could I get your suggested feeding schedule for dirt...(I guess sunshine mix and pearlite) It's only for 2 plants and using tap water. (I've got all 4 nutrients from dyna-gro) I'm guessing from the post above that I won't be needing to use magpro since I'm using tap water?
> 
> Really enjoying your posts and learning a lot from a veteran of 11 years. Thanks for your help.
> 
> Any additional "secret tips" would be very much appreciated.


I'm not finding that I need magpro in the dirt. As far as feedings go, just do what works best for you. A couple mls per gallon of base in veg should be enough (add protekt first and use enough where the addition of your base brings your pH into the idea range). Maybe double those rates for flower? I'd love to just give you the numbers that work for me but one; that wont teach you anything and two; that may or may not work with your strains, plant size or your environment. Read the plant. If it's green top to bottom and healthy, think about feeding just tap water or a really light plant food mix. I think at a minimum, you should be feeding your plants once per week. See how that works, take notes, and don't be afraid to use _grow_ in flower.


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## alienrain (Mar 27, 2012)

Thanks for the tips HB. I'm a total noob and have to admit the flashy bottles of AN were getting me thinking I was going to have to spend a ton of money on nutes. 

I'm using an LED which said I won't have to water as much and use less nutes because it doesn't get hot enough to evaporate as quickly. 

So it's important to add protekt first to the water and then the other nutes to bring the ph to the desired level of 6.5-6.7? And then from there just watch the plant and see if it needs more or less?

Also should the schedule just switch off with feed, water, feed, water?

Thanks again...I'm glad I'm doing my research first.


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## homebrewer (Mar 27, 2012)

alienrain said:


> So it's important to add protekt first to the water and then the other nutes to bring the ph to the desired level of 6.5-6.7? And then from there just watch the plant and see if it needs more or less?


I shoot for low 6's for my pH in promix. Yes, watch the plant and take notes of what you fed, how much and when. If a couple mls per gallon is not enough food or too much, your plants won't show it immediately. Your tap water also has a bearing on your plant health. Hard water makes it hard for you to keep a plant green and healthy until harvest. 



> Also should the schedule just switch off with feed, water, feed, water?


I feed, feed, water generally but I do not stick to that. I never need to water with plain water twice in a row. Usually I'll feed and watch the plant. At the next watering I have two choices which are to feed or to use plain water. If I feed again, I know next time I need to probably use plain water. If I chose to use tap water, I know next time I'll probably need to feed. Knowing how much to feed and when is a skill. Knowing when your plant needs liquid is another skill one needs to master. Letting your pot dry out too much or not letting it dry out enough can both cause issues. I suppose a 'green thumb' is just knowing when your plant could use a drink.


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## unohu69 (Mar 27, 2012)

Another example, need LIKE.

I have found low 6's in promix is great for me also. I feed the same way HB does, feed, feed, water, maybe water then feed. whatever the plants tell me. I have also found my PM's are extremely low, i think, last feeding 2ml protekt, 2ml grow, 260 PPM? I think it was, at 6.1 ph. the plants seem to be super healthy, and doing well.


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## dickkhead (Mar 27, 2012)

yea in my promix ive been feeding 1/2 tsp/gal everyother watering. I never have checked ph cause the guy from dyna gro said it has a high ph range and not to worry cause the plants will utilize it. my plants are flourishing more then ever. cant wait to try it with hp aero


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## lerster (Mar 29, 2012)

hey HB, what is the ratio you mix grow and bloom to get a 1-3-2?
I tried to do the conversion you posted on this thread but i keep coming up with high numbers...
I got the grow which is 7-9-5 and the bloom which is 3-12-6, I tried to do 1:2 but the end I get 4.3-11-5.6...am I missing something?


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## homebrewer (Mar 29, 2012)

lerster said:


> hey HB, what is the ratio you mix grow and bloom to get a 1-3-2?


I like that ratio for hydro. Promix seems to need a little more N in my experience. To answer your question, 20-25% grow seems to be enough for me to get to about a 1-3-1.5 ratio. With protekt (0-0-3) added in there, maybe you're looking at closer to a 1-3-2 at that point.


> I tried to do the conversion you posted on this thread but i keep coming up with high numbers...
> I got the grow which is 7-9-5 and the bloom which is 3-12-6, I tried to do 1:2 but the end I get 4.3-11-5.6...am I missing something?


This comment was added after I responded. Your NPK numbers above equals a 1-2.5-1.3 ratio which is totally fine. The 1-3-2 ratio isn't a hardfast rule for me as the amount of grow I mix in during the first three weeks of flower is greater than the amount that I add during the last three weeks. The leaves will tell you what to do. Don't read those leaves too carefully though, it seems lately people are getting too sensitive to each-and-every spot or color variation or shape of their leaves. Look at the _entire_ plant to determine if you're doing a good job.


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## lerster (Mar 29, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I like that ratio for hydro. Promix seems to need a little more N in my experience. To answer your question, 20-25% grow seems to be enough for me to get to about a 1-3-1.5 ratio. With protekt (0-0-3) added in there, maybe you're looking at closer to a 1-3-2 at that point.
> 
> 
> This comment was added after I responded. Your NPK numbers above equals a 1-2.5-1.3 ratio which is totally fine. The 1-3-2 ratio isn't a hardfast rule for me as the amount of grow I mix in during the first three weeks of flower is greater than the amount that I add during the last three weeks. The leaves will tell you what to do. Don't read those leaves too carefully though, it seems lately people are getting too sensitive to each-and-every spot or color variation or shape of their leaves. Look at the _entire_ plant to determine if you're doing a good job.


Thank You HomeBrewer


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## dickkhead (Apr 9, 2012)

home brewer im searching your thread but i cant find it. whats your feed schedule from satrt to finish in the pro mix using dyna gro nutes? do you use hygrozyme, or any kind of enzyme or reccomend it? thanks hb


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## Kite High (Apr 9, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> home brewer im searching your thread but i cant find it. whats your feed schedule from satrt to finish in the pro mix using dyna gro nutes? do you use hygrozyme, or any kind of enzyme or reccomend it? thanks hb


because there is no feed schedule...the plants tell you what that is...jus sayin


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## homebrewer (Apr 9, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> home brewer im searching your thread but i cant find it. whats your feed schedule from satrt to finish in the pro mix using dyna gro nutes? do you use hygrozyme, or any kind of enzyme or reccomend it? thanks hb


Kite High is correct. Enviroment, strain, water, lighting, etc. can all play a role in how much you feed a plant. Start off with 1.5mls/gallon of grow in veg and work from there. 

In regards to the enzyme products, they're not needed.


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## Trichy Bastard (Apr 10, 2012)

Kite High said:


> because there is no feed schedule...the plants tell you what that is...jus sayin


Yeah - to a degree- however you might have him starting off with what the bottle says and that would probably be too much. A reference point to start from is always nice. I'd answer, but not sure if HB has refined his numbers since the last time. DH- I'll email you a bit more on what works for me- it's very near what homebrewer uses, although I measure in e/c and don't have the extra minute to convert it right now.


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## dickkhead (Apr 10, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Yeah - to a degree- however you might have him starting off with what the bottle says and that would probably be too much. A reference point to start from is always nice. I'd answer, but not sure if HB has refined his numbers since the last time. DH- I'll email you a bit more on what works for me- it's very near what homebrewer uses, although I measure in e/c and don't have the extra minute to convert it right now.[/QUOTE
> 
> Thanks tb and hb I'm just wondering when to increase during flower and home brewer I guess it's all trial and error!


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## homebrewer (Apr 10, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> Thanks tb and hb I'm just wondering when to increase during flower and home brewer I guess it's all trial and error!


It _is_ trial-and-error and by discovering what works best in your situation, you'll learn a lot doing so. So generically I say start with the numbers I posted above and double that in flowering. You may need more, you may need less, just try your best to read the plant. Don't read too hard though, feeding when you should've watered or watering when you should've fed isn't doomsday for your plant. Take notes, dial it in! Don't worry about every single leaf on your plant or a spot here and there. Read the _whole_ plant, keep those leaves green and intact.


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## dickkhead (Apr 10, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> It _is_ trial-and-error and by discovering what works best in your situation, you'll learn a lot doing so. So generically I say start with the numbers I posted above and double that in flowering. You may need more, you may need less, just try your best to read the plant. Don't read too hard though, feeding when you should've watered or watering when you should've fed isn't doomsday for your plant. Take notes, dial it in! Don't worry about every single leaf on your plant or a spot here and there. Read the _whole_ plant, keep those leaves green and intact.





homebrewer said:


> I like that ratio for hydro. Promix seems to need a little more N in my experience. To answer your question, 20-25% grow seems to be enough for me to get to about a 1-3-1.5 ratio. With protekt (0-0-3) added in there, maybe you're looking at closer to a 1-3-2 at that point.
> 
> 
> This comment was added after I responded. Your NPK numbers above equals a 1-2.5-1.3 ratio which is totally fine. The 1-3-2 ratio isn't a hardfast rule for me as the amount of grow I mix in during the first three weeks of flower is greater than the amount that I add during the last three weeks. The leaves will tell you what to do. Don't read those leaves too carefully though, it seems lately people are getting too sensitive to each-and-every spot or color variation or shape of their leaves. Look at the _entire_ plant to determine if you're doing a good job.


what do you mean by 1-3-2 ratio% can you break that down to ml/gal of gro and bloom?


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## homebrewer (Apr 11, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> what do you mean by 1-3-2 ratio% can you break that down to ml/gal of gro and bloom?


In one of the quotes in your post, I did break it down. 



> ...*20-25% grow seems to be enough for me to get to about a 1-3-1.5 ratio. With protekt (0-0-3) added in there, maybe you're looking at closer to a 1-3-2 at that point.*


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## Southtexasman87 (Apr 12, 2012)

Hb thank u very much for this thread I know u hear it a lot but really thank u! 
I got some lovly juice coming soon!!! So it's my first bubblebucket and I do have a lil hi temps around 86-90 (it hit 90 once) and about 75 at the low for night my Rex temp it around 76degre, I have a seedling in ther today would b 6-7 days above ground, it still has the starter feed leafs one set of sraided leafs and this morning I noticed the next node set coming out sry I don't have the ability to up load a pic cuz iPhone idk how, ok so for the question does that sound about right for the time? When do I stat to giving grow/bloom/protekt? The feed leafs have been getting a lil yellow and the stem is kinda purpl some times?

I don't have a ec yet any good meter and how do I tell what scale it on I have heard of y'all asking about scales on that?


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## dickkhead (Apr 12, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I like that ratio for hydro. Promix seems to need a little more N in my experience. To answer your question, 20-25% grow seems to be enough for me to get to about a 1-3-1.5 ratio. With protekt (0-0-3) added in there, maybe you're looking at closer to a 1-3-2 at that point.
> 
> 
> This comment was added after I responded. Your NPK numbers above equals a 1-2.5-1.3 ratio which is totally fine. The 1-3-2 ratio isn't a hardfast rule for me as the amount of grow I mix in during the first three weeks of flower is greater than the amount that I add during the last three weeks. The leaves will tell you what to do. Don't read those leaves too carefully though, it seems lately people are getting too sensitive to each-and-every spot or color variation or shape of their leaves. Look at the _entire_ plant to determine if you're doing a good job.





homebrewer said:


> In one of the quotes in your post, I did break it down.


ok Im sorry im looking but im not understanding it. for a 1.3.2 ratio what is that broken down tsp/gal of each nute?


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## homebrewer (Apr 12, 2012)

Southtexasman87 said:


> Hb thank u very much for this thread I know u hear it a lot but really thank u!
> I got some lovly juice coming soon!!! So it's my first bubblebucket and I do have a lil hi temps around 86-90 (it hit 90 once) and about 75 at the low for night my Rex temp it around 76degre, I have a seedling in ther today would b 6-7 days above ground, it still has the starter feed leafs one set of sraided leafs and this morning I noticed the next node set coming out sry I don't have the ability to up load a pic cuz iPhone idk how, *ok so for the question does that sound about right for the time? When do I stat to giving grow/bloom/protekt?* The feed leafs have been getting a lil yellow and the stem is kinda purpl some times?
> 
> I don't have a ec yet any good meter and how do I tell what scale it on I have heard of y'all asking about scales on that?


Your plants grow according to their clock, not yours. Don't worry about the growth of a seedling as long as it's healthy. 



> *When do I stat to giving grow/bloom/protekt?*


You're in bubblebuckets? Um, now is a good time to start feeding your plants something other than water. 



dickkhead said:


> ok Im sorry im looking but im not understanding it. for a 1.3.2 ratio what is that broken down tsp/gal of each nute?


20-25% grow, 75-80% bloom. Tsp per gallon depends on too many things to rattle off concrete numbers but percentages are scalable. Use my journals as a guide and figure out what works best for you, your strains and your environment.


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## dickkhead (Apr 13, 2012)

ok thanks hb


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## Southtexasman87 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank u sir


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## Stonedkind (Apr 14, 2012)

hey homebrew ive been reading your research and like what im seeing i receantly got into hydro and am looking to see what nutrients i should go with and from your research i say dyna gro beats advance nutes basic a and b but what about humboldt nutreints have you used those and would u recomend dyno gro set up grow , bloom , protek , and kln over humboldt and have u and do u use superthrive?


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## homebrewer (Apr 15, 2012)

Stonedkind said:


> hey homebrew ive been reading your research and like what im seeing i receantly got into hydro and am looking to see what nutrients i should go with and from your research i say dyna gro beats advance nutes basic a and b but what about humboldt nutreints have you used those and would u recomend dyno gro set up grow , bloom , protek , and kln over humboldt and have u and do u use superthrive?


Humboldt is a hack-job of a company. Call their customer service and ask them a specific question about the performance of a product of theirs and its affects on plant functions. If you're a beginner, cut your teeth on the GH three part. Years down the road when you know what you're doing, check out DG.


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## Stonedkind (Apr 15, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Humboldt is a hack-job of a company. Call their customer service and ask them a specific question about the performance of a product of theirs and its affects on plant functions. If you're a beginner, cut your teeth on the GH three part. Years down the road when you know what you're doing, check out DG.


Im not a big fan of genreal but I have defanitaly decided tO go dyno and I wonder would it work out with the dyno grow package the grow bloom the kln protek and pro mag if I add super thrive and additives like jungle juice and great white microzymes and in veg stage adding big bud


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## Stonedkind (Apr 15, 2012)

Stonedkind said:


> Im not a big fan of genreal but I have defanitaly decided tO go dyno and I wonder would it work out with the dyno grow package the grow bloom the kln protek and pro mag if I add super thrive and additives like jungle juice and great white microzymes and in veg stage adding big bud


Oh and I'm sorry I've grown a little with nutes just lookin to go to rockwool and like u say dyno grow has all ur essential nutes just new to hydro and I have read accouple books on hydro

Ive used. Nutes made for soil bases wich only carryed N p K and mag wich comes from seaweed and add more k with a third additive and added enzymes additive


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## Trichy Bastard (Apr 15, 2012)

Stonedkind said:


> Im not a big fan of genreal but I have defanitaly decided tO go dyno and I wonder would it work out with the dyno grow package the grow bloom the kln protek and pro mag if I add super thrive and additives like jungle juice and great white microzymes and in veg stage adding big bud


Newer to hydro? All the more reason to keep it simple. You're adding additives without even knowing the performance characteristics of your base nutes. How will you ever even be able to tell what's making a difference? The more crap you add the more likely you are to overdo it with a particular element or bring something out of balance- now why risk all that when the pics of the cheap easy regimen are definitely worth getting already? I'm sorry man- these companies have us all fooled and thinking we can't possibly grow a decent plant without all this stuff- but just have faith in simplicity and don't fall into their scams. 

One of the great pieces of knowledge one can walk away from this thread with is that less can be more- give it a chance before you discount it...


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## homebrewer (Apr 15, 2012)

Stonedkind said:


> Im not a big fan of genreal but I have defanitaly decided tO go dyno and I wonder would it work out with the dyno grow package the grow bloom the kln protek and pro mag if I add super thrive and additives like jungle juice and great white microzymes and in veg stage adding big bud


I do not recommend that you use DG. Check out floranova grow/bloom combo and only use those two bottles.


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## Stonedkind (Apr 15, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Newer to hydro? All the more reason to keep it simple. You're adding additives without even knowing the performance characteristics of your base nutes. How will you ever even be able to tell what's making a difference? The more crap you add the more likely you are to overdo it with a particular element or bring something out of balance- now why risk all that when the pics of the cheap easy regimen are definitely worth getting already? I'm sorry man- these companies have us all fooled and thinking we can't possibly grow a decent plant without all this stuff- but just have faith in simplicity and don't fall into their scams.
> 
> One of the great pieces of knowledge one can walk away from this thread with is that less can be more- give it a chance before you discount it...


 u know that is it I am just gonna go with flow and use basic dyno it's honestly seems to be bang for u bug having everything includeing the silica and that's anthore reseon I'm not going to use general home I want a program with silica general from my knowledge has no silica in its program


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## unohu69 (Apr 19, 2012)

Hey HB, finally picked up some F+, cant wait to use it. gonna start moving a couple girls to flower, but they are in dirt, and im not sure if i should use it with them or not. probly just gonna stick to a Protekt/Grow/Bloom nute program with them. It seems to work beautifully in my mix. Got a DP- Cheese, BCseedking- Purp, and a BCsk-Godbud, the cheese is a new one for me so im kinda excited to see what she brings.

Also I expect to be picking up a new patient real soon, so ill be able to bump it up a notch finally.


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## homebrewer (Apr 19, 2012)

unohu69 said:


> Hey HB, finally picked up some F+, cant wait to use it. gonna start moving a couple girls to flower, but they are in dirt, and im not sure if i should use it with them or not. probly just gonna stick to a Protekt/Grow/Bloom nute program with them. It seems to work beautifully in my mix. Got a DP- Cheese, BCseedking- Purp, and a BCsk-Godbud, the cheese is a new one for me so im kinda excited to see what she brings.
> 
> Also I expect to be picking up a new patient real soon, so ill be able to bump it up a notch finally.


Personally I never notcied a difference with FL+ in the dirt. At 1ml/gallon, it's worth trying out on your own.


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## unohu69 (Apr 19, 2012)

yeah, i have a few girls that need more vegg time in DWC, when I roll them into flower ill use it on them. Just had a little extra money, paid a tad to much for it locally, but at least the money is kept, well, local....


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## ozric420 (Apr 20, 2012)

good info thanks


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## dickkhead (Apr 22, 2012)

http://youtu.be/_jojOwf8CxA


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## dickkhead (Apr 22, 2012)

check out this guys video clearly dyna gro blows it away!! Man im happy i went with dyna gro


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## unohu69 (Apr 22, 2012)

Nice vid, thanx


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## dickkhead (Apr 22, 2012)

unohu69 said:


> Nice vid, thanx


No problem! isnt the differnece crazy! if you see his other videos he used AN full line to try and beat out dyna gro but by the looks it didnt even come close!!


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## homebrewer (Apr 22, 2012)

I don't know if he posted a winner in regards to his youtube comparison but I think it's pretty clear that plant food is all about the elements, not fancy lables and marketing. I_ guess _you could say it looked close but if you factor in price and the effort it took to mix all of the AN shiz together, I know which one I'd rather be using.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Apr 22, 2012)

Yeah, they looked pretty similar and they were grown from seeds, not clones. Either way for the price I'm sticking with DG.


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## unohu69 (Apr 22, 2012)

Just finished watching the rest of the vids, and the DG plant was at a slight disadvantage at the beginning but finished up superbly. using seed for the test probly wasnt the best, even he mentioned it. At the end, both plants look great. However, as HB said, figure in cost & time, I think I know what i'll be using. 

All tho my first run in DWC with DG has been a little rough. I havent really been able to get my PH to stay put. it was rock solid when I used Xnutes samples, then switched to DG. Ill still keep using DG, but i gotta figure out what im doing wrong.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Apr 22, 2012)

unohu69 said:


> Just finished watching the rest of the vids, and the DG plant was at a slight disadvantage at the beginning but finished up superbly. using seed for the test probly wasnt the best, even he mentioned it. At the end, both plants look great. However, as HB said, figure in cost & time, I think I know what i'll be using.
> 
> All tho my first run in DWC with DG has been a little rough. I havent really been able to get my PH to stay put. it was rock solid when I used Xnutes samples, then switched to DG. Ill still keep using DG, but i gotta figure out what im doing wrong.


How much protekt are you using?


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## unohu69 (Apr 23, 2012)

1.5-2 ml of protekt, 1.5-2 grow/3-4 bloom /per gallon. sometimes a little more or less. but not a lot either way. I have purposefully kept PPM, on the low side.
usually im shooting for 5.8, but ill except 6.2 if i have to. I am really low on PH up/down right now also. So I may add a dash of protekt to raise, or bloom to lower, but only if im looking for a couple tenths.


If the PH is real low when I add water (every 2-3 days) then I will add a higher PH to hopefully offset it, but I have no idea how to figure out how much of a certain ph to add to the low ph to bring it where I want it. 

I had a PPM tester but its no longer with me, but the PPM's either stayed the same (roughly) or raise a bit.


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## dickkhead (Apr 23, 2012)

unohu69 said:


> Just finished watching the rest of the vids, and the DG plant was at a slight disadvantage at the beginning but finished up superbly. using seed for the test probly wasnt the best, even he mentioned it. At the end, both plants look great. However, as HB said, figure in cost & time, I think I know what i'll be using.
> 
> All tho my first run in DWC with DG has been a little rough. I havent really been able to get my PH to stay put. it was rock solid when I used Xnutes samples, then switched to DG. Ill still keep using DG, but i gotta figure out what im doing wrong.


I was going to say make sure your using pro-tekt and add it to the water first and I believe you should be at 2.5/gallon in late growth

also the plants came out at 34 grams apeice it was a tie!! and he said the AN buds did taste better but I think you could add something to DG to enhance flavor


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## homebrewer (Apr 23, 2012)

unohu69 said:


> *1.5-2 ml of protekt*, 1.5-2 grow/3-4 bloom /per gallon. sometimes a little more or less. but not a lot either way. I have purposefully kept PPM, on the low side.
> usually im shooting for 5.8, but ill except 6.2 if i have to. I am really low on PH up/down right now also. So I may add a dash of protekt to raise, or bloom to lower, but only if im looking for a couple tenths.



Try 5mls of protekt per gallon and see how that affects your pH stability.



dickkhead said:


> also the plants came out at 34 grams apeice it was a tie!! and he said the AN buds did taste better but I think you could add something to DG to enhance flavor


He was using some organic additives with the AN plant which may explain the difference in taste.


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## dickkhead (Apr 23, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Try 5mls of protekt per gallon and see how that affects your pH stability.
> 
> 
> 
> He was using some organic additives with the AN plant which may explain the difference in taste.


What organic additives was he using? Would these be ok to run with dyna gro?


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## homebrewer (Apr 23, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> What organic additives was he using? Would these be ok to run with dyna gro?


He listed a few in one of the comments under the video. I personally don't think they're needed in dirt but I run floralicious plus in hydro. As long as the additives don't cause issues, I think they'd be ok. Personally, I don't like mixing a slew of unnecessary items each time a plant needs watered.


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## Trichy Bastard (Apr 24, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I don't know if he posted a winner in regards to his youtube comparison but I think it's pretty clear that plant food is all about the elements, not fancy lables and marketing. I_ guess _you could say it looked close but if you factor in price and the effort it took to mix all of the AN shiz together, I know which one I'd rather be using.


Yes, and as for the comments about the DG not tasting as good- it was not a perfect test as someone pointed out. He grew from seed, 2 seperate seeds, he should have used clones for a better comparison... Either way, the DG certainly doesn't suck... 

And taste is a matter of preference anyway, a very individual thing with no right/or wrong answer.


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## reverof (Apr 26, 2012)

There is a very very easy fix for anyone who thinks DG nutes leave a bad taste... Though I never had anyone complain about taste, i ran a single system as normal, last 3 days I ran straight PHd water with no nutes and was actually told by a cannibus cup winner that it was some of the tastiest he ever had. he could tell a difference as I gave him some from a non flushed and flushed, blindly. I will state he did not say the other tasted bad or off in any ways, just thought the 1 batch was incredible... I asked which batch and he chose the flushed one.


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## homebrewer (Apr 26, 2012)

reverof said:


> There is a very very easy fix for anyone who thinks DG nutes leave a bad taste... Though I never had anyone complain about taste, i ran a single system as normal, last 3 days I ran straight PHd water with no nutes and was actually told by a cannibus cup winner that it was some of the tastiest he ever had. he could tell a difference as I gave him some from a non flushed and flushed, blindly. I will state he did not say the other tasted bad or off in any ways, just thought the 1 batch was incredible... I asked which batch and he chose the flushed one.


I would definitely encourage people to do what they need to do to get the results they desire.


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## dickkhead (Apr 27, 2012)

reverof said:


> There is a very very easy fix for anyone who thinks DG nutes leave a bad taste... Though I never had anyone complain about taste, i ran a single system as normal, last 3 days I ran straight PHd water with no nutes and was actually told by a cannibus cup winner that it was some of the tastiest he ever had. he could tell a difference as I gave him some from a non flushed and flushed, blindly. I will state he did not say the other tasted bad or off in any ways, just thought the 1 batch was incredible... I asked which batch and he chose the flushed one.


what type of system? what did you ph your water to was it RO or tap? thanks for this


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## dickkhead (Apr 27, 2012)

HB you going to put dg up against anything else? like house and gardens?


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## Southtexasman87 (Apr 27, 2012)

Have u used flora nova by chance? Reading that and DG they kinda sound the same any input?


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## unohu69 (Apr 27, 2012)

id like to see HB put up a DG vs X-nutrients. I had some very impressive growth using Xnutes.


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## reverof (Apr 27, 2012)

flood & drain, very similar system to what HB runs, concrete mixing tub on rubbermade container.... I use carbon filtered water, I have a full fledge RO unit, but only run my water for growing through my pre-filter & 50lb carbon filter.


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## dickkhead (Apr 28, 2012)

reverof said:


> flood & drain, very similar system to what HB runs, concrete mixing tub on rubbermade container.... I use carbon filtered water, I have a full fledge RO unit, but only run my water for growing through my pre-filter & 50lb carbon filter.


nice!! sounds like what Im about to set Up


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## homebrewer (Apr 28, 2012)

I'm not against doing another nutrient comparison, we'll see what my schedule allows. I do have some Dumpster ladies about to go in flowering so this may be a good time. I've seen suggestions for canna, H&G and Xnutrients. Any others? What I like about the Connoisseur comparison was that it was an expensive nutrient and it turned out to be less-than-average in performance. What brand has the second most hype behind it? Or would you want to see sensi? My friend has some sensi bottles that I could use as he no longer uses AN.


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## Someguy15 (Apr 28, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I'm not against doing another nutrient comparison, we'll see what my schedule allows. I do have some Dumpster ladies about to go in flowering so this may be a good time. I've seen suggestions for canna, H&G and Xnutrients. Any others? What I like about the Connoisseur comparison was that it was an expensive nutrient and it turned out to be less-than-average in performance. What brand has the second most hype behind it? Or would you want to see sensi? My friend has some sensi bottles that I could use as he no longer uses AN.


I'd like to see canna or H&G personally, both nutes I have used. I think most of us here already know how sensi will shake out lol


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## ozric420 (Apr 28, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I'm not against doing another nutrient comparison, we'll see what my schedule allows. I do have some Dumpster ladies about to go in flowering so this may be a good time. I've seen suggestions for canna, H&G and Xnutrients. Any others? What I like about the Connoisseur comparison was that it was an expensive nutrient and it turned out to be less-than-average in performance. What brand has the second most hype behind it? Or would you want to see sensi? My friend has some sensi bottles that I could use as he no longer uses AN.


How about Blue planet nutes, http://www.blueplanetnutrients.com/


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## dickkhead (Apr 28, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I'm not against doing another nutrient comparison, we'll see what my schedule allows. I do have some Dumpster ladies about to go in flowering so this may be a good time. I've seen suggestions for canna, H&G and Xnutrients. Any others? What I like about the Connoisseur comparison was that it was an expensive nutrient and it turned out to be less-than-average in performance. What brand has the second most hype behind it? Or would you want to see sensi? My friend has some sensi bottles that I could use as he no longer uses AN.


alot of people are fans of the sensi thatd be a good one but H&G seems to be realy the go to these days! technaflora has good produstc to Im going to put dyna gro up against it in a flood drain table myself


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## Trichy Bastard (Apr 28, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I'm not against doing another nutrient comparison, we'll see what my schedule allows. I do have some Dumpster ladies about to go in flowering so this may be a good time. I've seen suggestions for canna, H&G and Xnutrients. Any others? What I like about the Connoisseur comparison was that it was an expensive nutrient and it turned out to be less-than-average in performance. What brand has the second most hype behind it? Or would you want to see sensi? My friend has some sensi bottles that I could use as he no longer uses AN.


 Well my vote is still for Canna, for 2 reasons: 1) I am using it and it's the only other nute I like as much as Dyna so far, but it seems to have less trace elements, so perhaps this can give some info on how important those are 2) it claims to be specifically formulated for Cannabis, which seems like a marketing hype that should be looked into. Either way HB, I look forward to you throwing out some new material as I always learn something from it and find it alot more entertaining than any tv show out there. Looking forward to this man.

P.s. After our talk the other day, I was racking my brain about it and I think I remembered the highest trustworthy g/watt mentioning thread out there. It's in the journals of a guy on UK420 running an Atomix aero system with Canna nutes in a 1m2 system under a 600hps and 400 MH. If you sign up to UK420 and search for G-Love and his journals if you are interested. Before he tested the Atomix unit, he was a very good rockwool/drip grower. Those incredible aero rootporn pics I posted before were from those journals.


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## dickkhead (Apr 28, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Well my vote is still for Canna, for 2 reasons: 1) I am using it and it's the only other nute I like as much as Dyna so far, but it seems to have less trace elements, so perhaps this can give some info on how important those are 2) it claims to be specifically formulated for Cannabis, which seems like a marketing hype that should be looked into. Either way HB, I look forward to you throwing out some new material as I always learn something from it and find it alot more entertaining than any tv show out there. Looking forward to this man.


yea canna would also be a good one!!


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## maphisto (Apr 28, 2012)

What about Hesi Nutrients?


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## homebrewer (Apr 28, 2012)

I'm kind of digging the Canna suggestion. I don't know a lot about their base nutrients, what Canna base do people use in their hydro systems?


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## Someguy15 (Apr 28, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I'm kind of digging the Canna suggestion. I don't know a lot about their base nutrients, what Canna base do people use in their hydro systems?


For flower? Aqua Flores A & B. 5L set runs around $100.


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## dickkhead (Apr 28, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Well my vote is still for Canna, for 2 reasons: 1) I am using it and it's the only other nute I like as much as Dyna so far, but it seems to have less trace elements, so perhaps this can give some info on how important those are 2) it claims to be specifically formulated for Cannabis, which seems like a marketing hype that should be looked into. Either way HB, I look forward to you throwing out some new material as I always learn something from it and find it alot more entertaining than any tv show out there. Looking forward to this man.
> 
> P.s. After our talk the other day, I was racking my brain about it and I think I remembered the highest trustworthy g/watt mentioning thread out there. It's in the journals of a guy on UK420 running an Atomix aero system with Canna nutes in a 1m2 system under a 600hps and 400 MH. If you sign up to UK420 and search for G-Love and his journals if you are interested. Before he tested the Atomix unit, he was a very good rockwool/drip grower. Those incredible aero rootporn pics I posted before were from those journals.


Tb do you have a link I looked but it wouldn't let me do a members search thanks man!


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## Trichy Bastard (Apr 28, 2012)

Someguy15 said:


> For flower? Aqua Flores A & B. 5L set runs around $100.


Yep, I use the Terra as mentioned before, it is similar, but just made for drain to waste. The Aqua is the right one for your F/D setup.


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## Trichy Bastard (Apr 28, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> Tb do you have a link I looked but it wouldn't let me do a members search thanks man!


Sorry man, that's why I said u had to join I believe to view stuff. Once a member use the search box in upper right and clickthe name G-Love and select the "Members" option. The bogus part is it generally takes a few days to be accepted.
Here's the link to the first journal if you can click it... http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=78330
Sorry Hb for the temporary hijack...


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## homebrewer (Apr 28, 2012)

Someguy15 said:


> For flower? Aqua Flores A & B. 5L set runs around $100.


...or I can get the 1L set for under $30, I like that! Connoisseur cost me over $80 for the litres . So would you guys find a Canna comparison beneficial? Despite the name, it's priced lower than DG and I kind of enjoy taking an honest look at the over-hyped, expensive plant foods. But it's up to you guys.


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## Someguy15 (Apr 28, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> ...or I can get the 1L set for under $30, I like that! Connoisseur cost me over $80 for the litres . So would you guys find a Canna comparison beneficial? Despite the name, it's priced lower than DG and I kind of enjoy taking an honest look at the over-hyped, expensive plant foods. But it's up to you guys.


Add the boost product to the lineup, then you'll see the cost, oh and the cannazyme


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## Lucius Vorenus (Apr 29, 2012)

Was this using Dyna Grow GROW or Foliage Pro?


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## Trichy Bastard (Apr 29, 2012)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> Was this using Dyna Grow GROW or Foliage Pro?


grow 7-9-5

Yes Canna, Canna lol... I wanted to do my own comparison myself, but I got sidetracked with testing this grow kit instead for now. Once I get it working well, the next step is to do a side x side in aero with the 2 as I have 2 separate chambers/setups. The difference will be I'll be comparing the Terra line as opposed to the aqua. In my application the Terra makes more sense as it is designed for drain to waste, but I would really love to see how versatile the Dyna is, not to mention to see that the benfits if the added trace elements might be. Canna is so respected that some of the people I have alot of respect for (Like the tree farmer fellow) attempt to copy or come close to the Canna recipe with their own diy nute mixes. Doesn't mean anything really until we can do a good scientific head to head though...


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## dickkhead (Apr 29, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> grow 7-9-5
> 
> Yes Canna, Canna lol... I wanted to do my own comparison myself, but I got sidetracked with testing this grow kit instead for now. Once I get it working well, the next step is to do a side x side in aero with the 2 as I have 2 separate chambers/setups. The difference will be I'll be comparing the Terra line as opposed to the aqua. In my application the Terra makes more sense as it is designed for drain to waste, but I would really love to see how versatile the Dyna is, not to mention to see that the benfits if the added trace elements might be. Canna is so respected that some of the people I have alot of respect for (Like the tree farmer fellow) attempt to copy or come close to the Canna recipe with their own diy nute mixes. Doesn't mean anything really until we can do a good scientific head to head though...


I thought tf like the foliage pro and used that formula for veg ever sense using it? And yea it just let me search on the site so I'll be looking at that journal thanks for posting that tb!


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## Trichy Bastard (Apr 29, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> I thought tf like the foliage pro and used that formula for veg ever sense using it? And yea it just let me search on the site so I'll be looking at that journal thanks for posting that tb!


Yes, tree farmer claims getting excellent results when he used the foliagepro in soil when he had a few plants growing that way, but I am sure the question was pertaining to what HB used in his thread here. The macro nutrients are very similar, but I am curious what the other differences are between the 7-9-5 and the 7-9-6. I could be wrong, but I believe the 7-9-5 is more suited for hydro while the foliage pro is more suited for soil because of the difference in ammoniacal nitrogen content. Anyway, lets not hijack HB's Journal here. I am looking forward to seeing some new material no matter what product he decides to use.

I would wonder if the consideration to use silica in any of the regimens is par for the course? I have seen reliable tests with the Canna rhiztonic where they put a drop in water with a piece of paper and it completely dissolved overnight. That product is supposed to be enzymes that digest only dead root material so they shed the outer dead layers and let the healthy new growth through. I guess it has it's place, but it's mighty expensive if my memory serves me.


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## maphisto (Apr 29, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Yes, tree farmer claims getting excellent results when he used the foliagepro in soil when he had a few plants growing that way, but I am sure the question was pertaining to what HB used in his thread here. The macro nutrients are very similar, but I am curious what the other differences are between the 7-9-5 and the 7-9-6. I could be wrong, but I believe the 7-9-5 is more suited for hydro while the foliage pro is more suited for soil because of the difference in ammoniacal nitrogen content. Anyway, lets not hijack HB's Journal here. I am looking forward to seeing some new material no matter what product he decides to use.
> 
> I would wonder if the consideration to use silica in any of the regimens is par for the course? I have seen reliable tests with the Canna rhiztonic where they put a drop in water with a piece of paper and it completely dissolved overnight. That product is supposed to be enzymes that digest only dead root material so they shed the outer dead layers and let the healthy new growth through. I guess it has it's place, but it's mighty expensive if my memory serves me.


yeah bro Canna has some expensive products i used to use their nutes in my hydro system,but damn i couldn't afford it..i still have 1/2 a bottle of their PK 13/14 i just use it on my girls outside.one thing i will give Canna is it's super clean your rez looks like water,(wait it is mostly water)either way HB will dial it in and i know that he will have better results than AN..Yo Hb what ya got on my 40


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## homebrewer (Apr 30, 2012)

I hope it's ok but I wont be buying their $100 additives. The performance of their base with something like hydroplex should probably be indicative enough of the performance of their base. If you're interested in following this canna grow, PM me.


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## dickkhead (Apr 30, 2012)

I've tried pm ing you and it didn't go through but let me know when u do it!! Thanks man


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## homebrewer (Apr 30, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> I've tried pm ing you and it didn't go through but let me know when u do it!! Thanks man


I've got plenty of space in my inbox, just answered an email actually.


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## Trichy Bastard (Apr 30, 2012)

BTW- I finally got around to calling and asking Dyna-gro how they are able to have a one part formula without precipitation. The lady who answered told me that it is supposedly impossible to do, but it is their trade secret and all the employees have to sign a promise to never tell anyone how they do it. Pretty interesting fact if I do say so myself.


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## unohu69 (Apr 30, 2012)

Hey HB, do you think the DG orchid formula would be a OK substitute for Grow? the NPK isnt all that much different. I would also use it with some Bloom for the beginning stages of flower. 

Im not sure whats wrong with my DG Grow bottle, I think it has some precipitate chunks in the bottom, shaking it doesnt help. and im not sure, but my plants dont seem to like it lately. I need to switch to either a fresh bottle or something real soon tho. and my local shop didnt have any grow left ( seems word has gotten out), but there is the orchid formula there, figured it would work in a pinch. What say you?


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## homebrewer (Apr 30, 2012)

unohu69 said:


> Hey HB, do you think the DG orchid formula would be a OK substitute for Grow? the NPK isnt all that much different. I would also use it with some Bloom for the beginning stages of flower.
> 
> Im not sure whats wrong with my DG Grow bottle, I think it has some precipitate chunks in the bottom, shaking it doesnt help. and im not sure, but my plants dont seem to like it lately. I need to switch to either a fresh bottle or something real soon tho. and my local shop didnt have any grow left ( seems word has gotten out), but there is the orchid formula there, figured it would work in a pinch. What say you?


I've never seen particulate in the grow but I do in the bloom, it doesn't seem to cause issues. In any case, what does the orchid formula look like. I can't find it on their site.


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## unohu69 (Apr 30, 2012)

http://www.quarteracreorchids.com/dyo8oz.html

http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/dynagro-orchid-pro-786-8oz-p-2183.html



There ya go. Id just like your input. Your one of a handful of people on here that I would take advice from.


sorry, that image didnt come through very good.... 

found it here...

http://www.kkorchid.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=175


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## homebrewer (Apr 30, 2012)

Looks a lot like the 7-9-5 grow and should work just fine. Personally if I had the option, I'd buy whichever one was cheaper.


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## dickkhead (Apr 30, 2012)

unohu69 said:


> Hey HB, do you think the DG orchid formula would be a OK substitute for Grow? the NPK isnt all that much different. I would also use it with some Bloom for the beginning stages of flower.
> 
> Im not sure whats wrong with my DG Grow bottle, I think it has some precipitate chunks in the bottom, shaking it doesnt help. and im not sure, but my plants dont seem to like it lately. I need to switch to either a fresh bottle or something real soon tho. and my local shop didnt have any grow left ( seems word has gotten out), but there is the orchid formula there, figured it would work in a pinch. What say you?


are you in dirt or hydro? try the foliage pro if you can stuff is bomb!


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## Rick Ratlin (May 1, 2012)

just for the record I've got chunks of precipitate in my new grow bottle, but not my new bloom. No problems so far though. Just add the same amount of water as is present, and dilute. Strain the mix, and double you're ratio.


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## homebrewer (May 1, 2012)

Rick Ratlin said:


> just for the record I've got chunks of precipitate in my new grow bottle, but not my new bloom. No problems so far though. Just add the same amount of water as is present, and dilute. Strain the mix, and double you're ratio.


In regards to those chunks, take 1ml of bloom or grow and see how much it raises the ppm of a gallon of water. I'm pretty sure the grow and bloom should contribute about 120-130 ppm to a gallon of water on the .7 scale _or_ around 95 ppm on the .5 scale. My bottles of bloom in the past are in the 90ppm range (.7 scale) so quite a bit dropped out yet I have seen no issues from this. Recently I picked up a bottle of bloom with no chunks and I was up around 125 ppm for one ml. I test each bottle before I use it so there are no surprises when I'm mixing a res.


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## homebrewer (May 2, 2012)

Ok fellas, I've got some bad news in regards to the newest comparison grow. Canna plant food cannot be found in my area. However, H&G _can_ so I hope switching the plant food at the last minute here isn't a disappointment.


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## Southtexasman87 (May 2, 2012)

Sweet!! I wanna c this cuz I do have both!! I just really need to fix my problem but looking fowered to this comp!!

Ps, Im going to get a new Rez today and c if I can't fix this slime and get back on track!


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## Trichy Bastard (May 2, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Ok fellas, I've got bad news in regards to the newest comparison grow. Canna plant food cannot be found in my area. However, H&G _can_ so I hope switching the plant food at the last minute here isn't a disappointment.


It's hard to find in stores, but I do have a good website that sells it for a good price and reasonable shipping for the future. I have heard a bit about the H&G lately so it's also a curiosity. Since I do have both Dyna and Canna, perhaps it will fall on me to do the head to head. I'll just have to make sure I have all my variables scientifically sorted out like you do HB... Good luck and just glad you are putting out some new info no matter what it is...


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## dickkhead (May 2, 2012)

Yea either way I'm subd


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## ozric420 (May 4, 2012)

yea me too


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## dickkhead (May 10, 2012)

HB have you ever used foliage pro? if so what was tsp/gal?


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## homebrewer (May 10, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> HB have you ever used foliage pro? if so what was tsp/gal?


I have not used it before. What medium are you talking about?


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## dickkhead (May 10, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I have not used it before. What medium are you talking about?


 Im using pro mix


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## homebrewer (May 10, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> Im using pro mix


At the most, 1 tsp/gallon would be plenty for a mature plant. Roughly half that for veg.


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## dickkhead (May 10, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> At the most, 1 tsp/gallon would be plenty for a mature plant. Roughly half that for veg.


There still young prob 4-6 weeks old and I was doing 1/4 tsp gallon and they were yellowing so I went to 1tsp gallon and they are thriving! Wasn't sure if I should do 1tsp every time I feed an feed 2 a week on a feed feed water type of schedule like I do with gro? Anyways thanks hb


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## homebrewer (May 10, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> There still young prob 4-6 weeks old and I was doing 1/4 tsp gallon and they were yellowing so I went to 1tsp gallon and they are thriving! Wasn't sure if I should do 1tsp every time I feed an feed 2 a week on a feed feed water type of schedule like I do with gro? Anyways thanks hb


You just gotta play with it a little and do what works best. Now that you know the dosage that your plants like, experiment with the watering schedule. Start with feed, water, feed and if that's not enough then maybe a feed, feed, water schedule is something to try after. Lets say you've dialed-in a watering/feeding schedule your plants like but you're seeing signs of salt buildup in the medium. Maybe that's a sign to cut back to 4mls a gallon. Trial and error my friend.


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## dickkhead (May 11, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> You just gotta play with it a little and do what works best. Now that you know the dosage that your plants like, experiment with the watering schedule. Start with feed, water, feed and if that's not enough then maybe a feed, feed, water schedule is something to try after. Lets say you've dialed-in a watering/feeding schedule your plants like but you're seeing signs of salt buildup in the medium. Maybe that's a sign to cut back to 4mls a gallon. Trial and error my friend.


Ok what are signs to look for with salt build up?


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## homebrewer (May 11, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> Ok what are signs to look for with salt build up?


Necrotic spots on leaves, leaf drop, and yellowing on the lower leaves.


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## Lucius Vorenus (May 11, 2012)

What's this look like to you dudes?


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## homebrewer (May 11, 2012)

That could be a number of things. Your plants look pretty good so maybe we can rule out over-feeding, unless you _just_ overfed them. It could be over-watering or a poor environment, like a room that's too cool and a medium that isn't drying out quick enough. My _guess_ is that it has something to do with your roots or your medium.


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## magnummafa (May 11, 2012)

im using foliage-pro/pro-tekt right now in veg. running pure kush in 5 gal buckets. using pro-mix hp with added perlite and earthworm castings. im about to switch to 12/12. i have a bottle of bloom,7-9-5 grow,pro-tekt and mag pro also. has anyone used a combo of fp and bloom yet in flower? rather than the 7-9-5/bloom combo? thanks


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## Lucius Vorenus (May 11, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> That could be a number of things. Your plants look pretty good so maybe we can rule out over-feeding, unless you _just_ overfed them. It could be over-watering or a poor environment, like a room that's too cool and a medium that isn't drying out quick enough. My _guess_ is that it has something to do with your roots or your medium.


It's just that strain. All other plants in that room 28, do just fine. This strain is Da Purps and it just seems to do that. Kinda weird.


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## homebrewer (May 11, 2012)

magnummafa said:


> im using foliage-pro/pro-tekt right now in veg. running pure kush in 5 gal buckets. using pro-mix hp with added perlite and earthworm castings. im about to switch to 12/12. i have a bottle of bloom,7-9-5 grow,pro-tekt and mag pro also. has anyone used a combo of fp and bloom yet in flower? rather than the 7-9-5/bloom combo? thanks


I think the nitrogen demands of our plants in dirt is greater than it is in hydro in regards to NPK values/ratios. Let us know how the combination works.


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## magnummafa (May 11, 2012)

i read another user mention that he uses fp through week 3 than switches to grow. Think im going to try route that unless i see a deficiency.


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## dickkhead (May 11, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I have not used it before. What medium are you talking about?





homebrewer said:


> Necrotic spots on leaves, leaf drop, and yellowing on the lower leaves.


Ill keep my eyes peeled
thanks HB


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## CoralGrower (May 11, 2012)

magnummafa said:


> i read another user mention that he uses fp through week 3 than switches to grow. Think im going to try route that unless i see a deficiency.



That would be me. The reason I do this is because during the first 3 weeks of 12/12, my plants stretch and very little flowering takes place. If I went to 3-12-6 from day 1 of 12/12, my fan leaves would begin to yellow by the end of the first week and would eventually fall off long before the flowering cycle was finished. 9-3-6 during the stretch goes a long way to keeping the fan leaves green in the event that I screw something up later on in the grow (it's been known to happen!!) If we compare "Grow" to "Bloom" we have 7-9-5 vs 3-12-6. From my experience (and I make zero claims about pushing any envelope of growing), cannabis prefers a 7 on the nitrogen vs 3 during the entire flowering cycle (I use RO water and grow hydroponically.) On the P scale, compare a 9 to a 12; both are higher than the N and the K. On the K side, 5 vs 6...if you or your plants can tell the difference...good on you!!

Please don't take anything I say as gospel; I haven't written any books on growing and I make no claims to being the King, Sultan, Fuhrer, Duke, or Viceroy of cannabis.


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## magnummafa (May 12, 2012)

i understand your theory. and will give it a shot. thank you. if i see any def's i can always adjust.


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## dickkhead (May 12, 2012)

CoralGrower said:


> That would be me. The reason I do this is because during the first 3 weeks of 12/12, my plants stretch and very little flowering takes place. If I went to 3-12-6 from day 1 of 12/12, my fan leaves would begin to yellow by the end of the first week and would eventually fall off long before the flowering cycle was finished. 9-3-6 during the stretch goes a long way to keeping the fan leaves green in the event that I screw something up later on in the grow (it's been known to happen!!) If we compare "Grow" to "Bloom" we have 7-9-5 vs 3-12-6. From my experience (and I make zero claims about pushing any envelope of growing), cannabis prefers a 7 on the nitrogen vs 3 during the entire flowering cycle (I use RO water and grow hydroponically.) On the P scale, compare a 9 to a 12; both are higher than the N and the K. On the K side, 5 vs 6...if you or your plants can tell the difference...good on you!!
> 
> Please don't take anything I say as gospel; I haven't written any books on growing and I make no claims to being the King, Sultan, Fuhrer, Duke, or Viceroy of cannabis.


Ive heard of people on other forums using fp or grow all the way through. Hate to say it but Big mike from AN Says that cannabis needs more nitrogen and a lot of company's bloom formulas phosphorus levels are to high for canibus. So maybe you are right about what your claiming about 7 being a favorable number I'm on week 3 just using grow 5 ml/ gal and my buds are filling in nicely I'm going to replicate what hb has suggested for now in pro mix, but on the next round I'm Gna try the fp in combo with bloom.maybe I'll do a comparison. Have u tried gro and bloom before or have always done fp and bloom?


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## Trichy Bastard (May 12, 2012)

CoralGrower said:


> That would be me. The reason I do this is because during the first 3 weeks of 12/12, my plants stretch and very little flowering takes place. If I went to 3-12-6 from day 1 of 12/12, my fan leaves would begin to yellow by the end of the first week and would eventually fall off long before the flowering cycle was finished. 9-3-6 during the stretch goes a long way to keeping the fan leaves green in the event that I screw something up later on in the grow (it's been known to happen!!) If we compare "Grow" to "Bloom" we have 7-9-5 vs 3-12-6. From my experience (and I make zero claims about pushing any envelope of growing), cannabis prefers a 7 on the nitrogen vs 3 during the entire flowering cycle (I use RO water and grow hydroponically.) On the P scale, compare a 9 to a 12; both are higher than the N and the K. On the K side, 5 vs 6...if you or your plants can tell the difference...good on you!!
> 
> Please don't take anything I say as gospel; I haven't written any books on growing and I make no claims to being the King, Sultan, Fuhrer, Duke, or Viceroy of cannabis.


I'm looking for a link, but high P induces stretch- a scientific article that looks quite trustworthy says limiting P will help limit stretch... I have read big Mike's "great P myth" but am not sure how much weight I give it...


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## Trichy Bastard (May 12, 2012)

Okay, the original article has been removed due to the website being down, however it is reprinted here- good stuff: http://www.gpnmag.com/what-really-causes-stretch


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## CoralGrower (May 12, 2012)

It would not surprise me to have good results using FP all the way through, though I have not done so YET!! I have tried several combinations (though certainly not all combinations) and I'm pretty darned close to dialing in what works best for my setup. I strongly urge you to play around with the nutes to see what gives you the best results as strains and setups vary.


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## CoralGrower (May 12, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> I'm looking for a link, but high P induces stretch- a scientific article that looks quite trustworthy says limiting P will help limit stretch... I have read big Mike's "great P myth" but am not sure how much weight I give it...



Good article, thanks for the link. As I grow inside a tent, limiting the stretch is something I have to be cognizant about.


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## dickkhead (May 12, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> I'm looking for a link, but high P induces stretch- a scientific article that looks quite trustworthy says limiting P will help limit stretch... I have read big Mike's "great P myth" but am not sure how much weight I give it...


yea Im not sure either. also with stretch if you keep your temps the same as when the lights are on you will cut it significantly 


CoralGrower said:


> Good article, thanks for the link. As I grow inside a tent, limiting the stretch is something I have to be cognizant about.


im in tents as well


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## homebrewer (May 13, 2012)

In dirt, bloom and grow/foliage pro, are tools and you should use the one your plant needs. I'd say that I use 100% 'grow' half the time I'm feeding during flowering and the other half the time it's a 50/50 combo of grow and bloom. Coral has a great post above, just give them what they need regardless of what the company has named the bottle. Be aware though that hydro is different. While I could probably get away with grow from start to finsh, the NPK ratio of blending grow and bloom at different rates gives me the best yields I've seen from any plant food while keeping the plants green until harvest day.


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## Trichy Bastard (May 13, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> In dirt, bloom and grow/foliage pro, are tools and you should use the one your plant needs. I'd say that I use 100% 'grow' half the time I'm feeding during flowering and the other half the time it's a 50/50 combo of grow and bloom. Coral has a great post above, just give them what they need regardless of what the company has named the bottle. Be aware though that hydro is different. While I could probably get away with grow from start to finsh, the NPK ratio of blending grow and bloom at different rates gives me the best yields I've seen from any plant food while keeping the plants green until harvest day.


Well put, sound wisdom... Btw, I have some seedlings started in the promix as I was inspired by your methods/results for such as a new way to keep mothers, and was curious if you found the ph sweet spot to be in the 5.8 or 6.5 range. I'm not sure if this should be considered soil or hydro as far as ph goes?


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## homebrewer (May 13, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Well put, sound wisdom... Btw, I have some seedlings started in the promix as I was inspired by your methods/results for such as a new way to keep mothers, and was curious if you found the ph sweet spot to be *in the 5.8 or 6.5 range*. I'm not sure if this should be considered soil or hydro as far as ph goes?


That pH range is fine. I shoot for mid-to-low 6's in promix personally and I don't have issues.


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## dickkhead (May 13, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Well put, sound wisdom... Btw, I have some seedlings started in the promix as I was inspired by your methods/results for such as a new way to keep mothers, and was curious if you found the ph sweet spot to be in the 5.8 or 6.5 range. I'm not sure if this should be considered soil or hydro as far as ph goes?


I also use straight tap with the pro mix I dont think theres a need for RO my taps 63 ppm and 6.5 ph


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## Trichy Bastard (May 13, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> I also use straight tap with the pro mix I dont think theres a need for RO my taps 63 ppm and 6.5 ph


Yeah, you're fine, I figure the soil is somehow more forgiving, although everyone should be cognizant of seasonal changes to their tapwater content. I have a whole house water softener, which probably leaves sodium in the water so I have to use the r.o. Also, there is alot of chlorine in the tap here, which in itself doesn't cause me any worry as I add my own, but I do worry about the chloramines and other things that happen in the lines. The article HB posted on nitrogen was interesting, I have a feeling DG's choice in nitrogen blend is in an attempt to keep ph steady. Something I got out of the article is because I specifically use chlorine and run a sterile environment, it may kill the bacteria that converts ammoniacal nitrogen into nitrate and ammonia toxicity my be more likely for me with DG(if I understood correctly). So far the Canna I use in the aero rig is all in the nitrate form, so it hasn't been an issue. And because it is made for DTW the steady ph is a moot point. I still look foward to testing DG in here soon though- one variable at a time...


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## dickkhead (May 13, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Yeah, you're fine, I figure the soil is somehow more forgiving, although everyone should be cognizant of seasonal changes to their tapwater content. I have a whole house water softener, which probably leaves sodium in the water so I have to use the r.o. Also, there is alot of chlorine in the tap here, which in itself doesn't cause me any worry as I add my own, but I do worry about the chloramines and other things that happen in the lines. The article HB posted on nitrogen was interesting, I have a feeling DG's choice in nitrogen blend is in an attempt to keep ph steady. Something I got out of the article is because I specifically use chlorine and run a sterile environment, it may kill the bacteria that converts ammoniacal nitrogen into nitrate and ammonia toxicity my be more likely for me with DG(if I understood correctly). So far the Canna I use in the aero rig is all in the nitrate form, so it hasn't been an issue. And because it is made for DTW the steady ph in a moot point. I still look foward to testing DG in here soon though- one variable at a time...


I just installed a chlorine snatcher to get the cloriamine out
do u guys ph when u flush in pro mix? And when do you flush first few amber trichs and then flush 7-14 days out? Was going to use sugar daddy first 3 days and water the rest thoughts? A guy on here HR does that in flood and drain but thought it sounded good to give some sweetners at the end of the plants life


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## Trichy Bastard (May 13, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> I just installed a chlorine snatcher to get the cloriamine out
> do u guys ph when u flush in pro mix? And when do you flush first few amber trichs and then flush 7-14 days out? Was going to use sugar daddy first 3 days and water the rest thoughts? A guy on here HR does that in flood and drain but thought it sounded good to give some sweetners at the end of the plants life


Thought you knew I don't believe in flushing (toilets are another story). I do plan to flush my promix once in a while to address the salt buildup if need be, but that's all. If I remember correctly, HB doesn't do an end flush either.


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## homebrewer (May 13, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Thought you knew I don't believe in flushing (toilets are another story). I do plan to flush my promix once in a while to address the salt buildup if need be, but that's all. If I remember correctly, HB doesn't do an end flush either.


Exactly! We're not growing toilets here . I will say this, I don't believe that plants that are fed properly need flushed. I do believe that one should run some plain water through their medium every few weeks in order to wash excessive salts away but in regards to flushing at harvest, I don't think it corrects anything in the plant if it was fed incorrectly. I say this because I've flushed and I've not flushed, assuming the plant was grown correctly, I can't tell the difference between the two. I believe the _cure_ is where smoke becomes smooth and tasty.


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## dickkhead (May 13, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Thought you knew I don't believe in flushing (toilets are another story). I do plan to flush my promix once in a while to address the salt buildup if need be, but that's all. If I remember correctly, HB doesn't do an end flush either.


No I didn't know but it's good to know



homebrewer said:


> Exactly! We're not growing toilets here . I will say this, I don't believe that plants that are fed properly need flushed. I do believe that one should run some plain water through their medium every few weeks in order to wash excessive salts away but in regards to flushing at harvest, I don't think it corrects anything in the plant if it was fed incorrectly. I say this because I've flushed and I've not flushed, assuming the plant was grown correctly, I can't tell the difference between the two. I believe the _cure_ is where smoke becomes smooth and tasty
> 
> No doubt good To know


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## reverof (May 13, 2012)

HB... where are you doing your next comparison... I can't seem to find a new thread.


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## homebrewer (May 13, 2012)

reverof said:


> HB... where are you doing your next comparison... I can't seem to find a new thread.


It's going on right now actually and I'm testing H&G, day 12 I think? Send me a PM.


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## Trichy Bastard (May 14, 2012)

Here's a new company with a very simple approach- one product only for the whole life cycle... http://www.hydroponic-research.com/about.html


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## homebrewer (May 14, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Here's a new company with a very simple approach- one product only for the whole life cycle... http://www.hydroponic-research.com/about.html


Interesting mineral content there with 18% calcium and 6% magnesium. I think someone at another forum was testing it and had to cut their grow short. I think it was doing well for the time it was being used.


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## dickkhead (May 14, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Interesting mineral content there with 18% calcium and 6% magnesium. I think someone at another forum was testing it and had to cut their grow short. I think it was doing well for the time it was being used.





Trichy Bastard said:


> Here's a new company with a very simple approach- one product only for the whole life cycle... http://www.hydroponic-research.com/about.html


Looks interesting but don't u think K is high at 30%? For mj


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## homebrewer (May 14, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> Looks interesting but don't u think K is high at 30%? For mj


It's a dry food so the NPK values are going to be higher (Jacks Classic is 20-20-20).


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## dickkhead (May 14, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> It's a dry food so the NPK values are going to be higher (Jacks Classic is 20-20-20).


O and if it says hydro nutes can you use it with soil or any medium? would like to see this stuff in action!


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## homebrewer (May 14, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> O and if it says hydro nutes can you use it with soil or any medium? would like to see this stuff in action!


Generally speaking, you need a more complete plant food for hydro than dirt. I think the veg+bloom is 'complete enough' to work in hydro and I think it would do ok in dirt too, I just question some of those mineral values. I'd like to see it in action.


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## dickkhead (May 14, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Generally speaking, you need a more complete plant food for hydro than dirt. I think the veg+bloom is 'complete enough' to work in hydro and I think it would do ok in dirt too, I just question some of those mineral values. I'd like to see it in action.


id like to see it as well maybe vs dyna gro?.....


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## ozric420 (May 19, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> id like to see it as well maybe vs dyna gro?.....


yes please do


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## Trichy Bastard (May 19, 2012)

ozric420 said:


> yes please do


Lol apparently ol Homebrewer could make a living at doing Dyna-gro comparisons. There is such a demand... To be honest I'd rather watch the competition between Dyna and another nute than a game of sports, so there- I said it... lol


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## dickkhead (May 19, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Lol apparently ol Homebrewer could make a living at doing Dyna-gro comparisons. There is such a demand... To be honest I'd rather watch the competition between Dyna and another nute than a game of sports, so there- I said it... lol


couldnt agree more lol.


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## dickkhead (May 22, 2012)

hb you ever try DG orchid pro? wouldnt it be ideal in flowering with a 7-8-6 ratio? lil more potasium n less phospate


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## CR500ROOST (May 25, 2012)

HB do you use pro tek the entire grow?Thanks.


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## homebrewer (May 26, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> hb you ever try DG orchid pro? wouldnt it be ideal in flowering with a 7-8-6 ratio? lil more potasium n less phospate


I use 7-9-5 for grow and feel like in hydro that's too much N for flower. However, in the dirt, I use 'grow' more than I use 'bloom'.




CR500ROOST said:


> HB do you use pro tek the entire grow?Thanks.


Yes, I use it from veg to harvest.


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## dickkhead (May 26, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I use 7-9-5 for grow and feel like in hydro that's too much N for flower. However, in the dirt, I use 'grow' more than I use 'bloom'.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I use it from veg to harvest.


Hey hb glad your home safe and are back!
I was using 1/2 tsp grow and 1/4 tsp bloom on week 4 and the first 3 weeks was 1/2tsp of just grow now onto week 5 I'm getting yellowing I also added a chlorine snatcher filter so I don't know what could be causing it? Any suggestions also using 1/2 tsp of protekt to


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## CR500ROOST (May 27, 2012)

Thanks for the response HB.


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## homebrewer (May 27, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> Hey hb glad your home safe and are back!
> I was using 1/2 tsp grow and 1/4 tsp bloom on week 4 and the first 3 weeks was 1/2tsp of just grow now onto week 5 I'm getting yellowing I also added a chlorine snatcher filter so I don't know what could be causing it? Any suggestions also using 1/2 tsp of protekt to


If I see yellowing in flower, I drop the bloom and go with 100% grow. 1 tsp per gallon should be plenty to start with and you can dial back from there.


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## Trichy Bastard (May 27, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> Hey hb glad your home safe and are back!
> I was using 1/2 tsp grow and 1/4 tsp bloom on week 4 and the first 3 weeks was 1/2tsp of just grow now onto week 5 I'm getting yellowing I also added a chlorine snatcher filter so I don't know what could be causing it? Any suggestions also using 1/2 tsp of protekt to


If your using the chlorine snatcher on the water pre nuting it, fine... But I wouldn't use it on the nuted water. Chlorine is actually one of the ingredients of dyna-gro- it's essential to plants in small amounts believe it or not. I don't know exactly what a snatcher is, so I'm gonna google it now..

EDIT: yah, the snatcher used carbon/charcoal- its ok to use to pre-treat the water, but you cannot run your nutes through it otherwise it will absorb some of the elements and would cause yellowing perhaps.


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## dickkhead (May 28, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> If I see yellowing in flower, I drop the bloom and go with 100% grow. 1 tsp per gallon should be plenty to start with and you can dial back from there.


Perfect this is exactly what I'm gna do. I have a whole gallon of bloom hopefully I'll be able to use it with hydro or aero


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## dickkhead (May 29, 2012)

What about medi one 4-3-3 from dr hornby it's a 1 part nute company it got voted best nute 2011 at the grow expo in Spain


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## Trichy Bastard (May 29, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> What about medi one 4-3-3 from dr hornby it's a 1 part nute company it got voted best nute 2011 at the grow expo in Spain


I wasn't aware the topic here was "Name that obscure nute brand"


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## Lucius Vorenus (May 29, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> I wasn't aware the topic here was "Name that obscure nute brand"


I heard its good but thick and not good for Hydro


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## dickkhead (May 29, 2012)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> I heard its good but thick and not good for Hydro


thanks good to know




Trichy Bastard said:


> I wasn't aware the topic here was "Name that obscure nute brand"


simply asking for feed back on something thats gotten such high ratings and is a 1 part thats all


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## Trichy Bastard (May 29, 2012)

Sorry if that sounded cocky... I had just woke up and thought I was being funny...


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## dickkhead (May 29, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Sorry if that sounded cocky... I had just woke up and thought I was being funny...


lol np. I think i took it wrong


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## dickkhead (May 29, 2012)

so after talking to a DG rep I asked him about there other formulas like orchid pro and all pro and for med MJ he said use gro, foliage pro, bloom, protekt, kln and mag pro, for best results and he also said my yellowing could be from mixing bloom with grow or foliage pro its a common thing that has been happening when people do so and he doesnt know why but he said stick with either gro or bloom as a stand alone and around week 3- 5 go straight to bloom from there on out


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## Trichy Bastard (May 29, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> so after talking to a DG rep I asked him about there other formulas like orchid pro and all pro and for med MJ he said use gro, foliage pro, bloom, protekt, kln and mag pro, for best results and he also said my yellowing could be from mixing bloom with grow or foliage pro its a common thing that has been happening when people do so and he doesnt know why but he said stick with either gro or bloom as a stand alone and around week 3- 5 go straight to bloom from there on out


Interesting, I don't understand how mixing them would be bad. If you want to follow his advice, then go back to the grow only until the yellowing is under control. Of course as I mentioned in PM- if it's just a leaf here and there it's normal. Homebrewer will tell you himself that the overall look of the plant is the way to gauge it (not a leaf here and there) which I also believe is good advice and agree fully.


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## dickkhead (May 29, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Interesting, I don't understand how mixing them would be bad. If you want to follow his advice, then go back to the grow only until the yellowing is under control. Of course as I mentioned in PM- if it's just a leaf here and there it's normal. Homebrewer will tell you himself that the overall look of the plant is the way to gauge it (not a leaf here and there) which I also believe is good advice and agree fully.


yea I totally agree I Just thought it was weird that the plant was green while using grow only then when i mixed in 1/4 tsp of bloom it yellowed? but yea for now Im doing just grow on one plant and going to try to go to just bloom on the other the plant that had alot of yellowing will get just grow for now


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## homebrewer (May 30, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> so after talking to a DG rep I asked him about there other formulas like orchid pro and all pro and for med MJ he said use gro, foliage pro, bloom, protekt, kln and mag pro, for best results and he also said my yellowing could be from mixing bloom with grow or foliage pro its a common thing that has been happening when people do so and he doesnt know why but he said stick with either gro or bloom as a stand alone and around week 3- 5 go straight to bloom from there on out


Mixing them will cause zero issues. In dirt, bloom-only will cause yellowing and I mix 50/50 bloom/ grow in their concentrated forms. This is what I'll feed with when the plants are nice and green and really don't need more 'grow' formula. I consider that 50/50 mix to be my 'booster' in the dirt .


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## medicalmary (May 31, 2012)

homebrewer,

nice grow. Using a very similar setup, but have been running into some airy bud problems as of late. I do not think it is the strains. My lights have been slowly creeping closer and closer to the canopy. Trying to keep the 600s at 20 inches this grow. Is this to far away? How close do you keep you lights. Mine are 600w hps, non- vented without glass.

MM


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## homebrewer (May 31, 2012)

medicalmary said:


> homebrewer,
> 
> nice grow. Using a very similar setup, but have been running into some airy bud problems as of late. I do not think it is the strains. My lights have been slowly creeping closer and closer to the canopy. Trying to keep the 600s at 20 inches this grow. Is this to far away? How close do you keep you lights. Mine are 600w hps, non- vented without glass.
> 
> MM


Twenty inches is kinda close but I guess that depends on hood design. I try to shoot for about 24 inches but am sometimes limited by height. How are your temps? Is your bulb less than 10 months old? The only time I see airy buds is when I'm dealing with a sativa-dominant strain and if they weren't airy, then I'd question how much sativa is actually in them . Are all your buds airy or just one part of the plant? Got any pics?


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jun 5, 2012)

I bet heat is your issue for airy bud. I run my 600 hortilux bulbs like 14" from the tops. Heat will make your buds airy. My bud is dense as hell. Air cooled 600s here. Don't get super anal about light distance either. I've learned less is more (for me anyway when it comes to distance".


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## medicalmary (Jun 6, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Twenty inches is kinda close but I guess that depends on hood design. I try to shoot for about 24 inches but am sometimes limited by height. How are your temps? Is your bulb less than 10 months old? The only time I see airy buds is when I'm dealing with a sativa-dominant strain and if they weren't airy, then I'd question how much sativa is actually in them . Are all your buds airy or just one part of the plant? Got any pics?


My temps run no higher than 80F at canopy level. Buds lower down on plant tend to be more airy probably due to light penetration, however, overall the yield is significantly lower than your last round. I run 6 plants under 1200 watts and pull marginally more than you do. Strains are not sativa dominant. At most they are 50/50 hybrids. One or two I run are 70/30 sativa, but I'm taking that into consideration. The hoods I have direct light out rather than straight down. I'm backing them up for this round to 22-24 inches and I'm going to see what happens. Here is a picture of what I think is not the densest bud. This is bubba kush that was harvested a month ago.



thanks for the response,

mm


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## homebrewer (Jun 6, 2012)

medicalmary said:


> My temps run no higher than 80F at canopy level. Buds lower down on plant tend to be more airy probably due to light penetration, however, overall the yield is significantly lower than your last round. I run 6 plants under 1200 watts and pull marginally more than you do. Strains are not sativa dominant. At most they are 50/50 hybrids. One or two I run are 70/30 sativa, but I'm taking that into consideration. The hoods I have direct light out rather than straight down. I'm backing them up for this round to 22-24 inches and I'm going to see what happens. Here is a picture of what I think is not the densest bud. This is bubba kush that was harvested a month ago.
> 
> View attachment 2201461
> 
> ...


Hood design is huge. I use Hydrofarm Radiant hoods because they do a great job at focusing light downward. I also have a 6" air-cooled sun system hood that spreads light out more and my yields from that tray are usually a pound at the most which is a few ounces less than I'm used to. Bud density doesn't seem to be the issue with that hood, it just doesn't penetrate well so the lower branches don't develop quite like they should.

What plant food are you using? I took a peek at your journal and I saw that you like 1.5-1-1.5 for the beginning of flowering. What do you run during the middle of flowering? Connoisseur yielded leafy buds of lower density as compared to GH, DG or even my current H&G grow. I attribute that to the NPK ratio which might be ok for dirt but sucks for hydro. I like something around 1-3-2 for hydro but of course one must 'keep 'em green' in the beginning too. 

Are you sure you can't blame the density issue on the strain? Is density the issue or is the overall yield what you're concerned with? 1200watts for 6 plants is a lot of light. Personally I run 9 dirt girls per 600 which only yields 2-3 ounces per plant, but the overall yield of the group is quite good considering the wattage. Can you add more plants and space out your light a little?


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## medicalmary (Jun 7, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Hood design is huge. I use Hydrofarm Radiant hoods because they do a great job at focusing light downward. I also have a 6" air-cooled sun system hood that spreads light out more and my yields from that tray are usually a pound at the most which is a few ounces less than I'm used to. Bud density doesn't seem to be the issue with that hood, it just doesn't penetrate well so the lower branches don't develop quite like they should.
> 
> What plant food are you using? I took a peek at your journal and I saw that you like 1.5-1-1.5 for the beginning of flowering. What do you run during the middle of flowering? Connoisseur yielded leafy buds of lower density as compared to GH, DG or even my current H&G grow. I attribute that to the NPK ratio which might be ok for dirt but sucks for hydro. I like something around 1-3-2 for hydro but of course one must 'keep 'em green' in the beginning too.
> 
> Are you sure you can't blame the density issue on the strain? Is density the issue or is the overall yield what you're concerned with? 1200watts for 6 plants is a lot of light. Personally I run 9 dirt girls per 600 which only yields 2-3 ounces per plant, but the overall yield of the group is quite good considering the wattage. Can you add more plants and space out your light a little?


The hoods for the 600s are off brand. They are "dynamyx". Judging from the footprint they cast, they direct more light out than straight down (however, I have never tinkered around with a PAR or lumen meter). Also, they are taller than most 600 hoods, so the light needs to travel farther to be reflected. Key word is they were cheap at the time.

During mid/late flower I water at approximately 1-3-2 level. I use dynagro. Mix of gro/bloom, add protekt. I water during very early flower at a higher nitrogen lower phosphorus level, but transition by week 2 after initial stretch. This sets bud formation back a bit. I use promix#4 and perlite as a medium.

As far as overall yield, my density is not the greatest, but the volume of flowers (or non-swollen calyxes) harvested remains very similar to previous rounds. Might be strain dependent. I've been trying different strains for the last 4 grows, however, none of the yields have been great so I'm double checking every aspect of the way I grow. I've talked to people that I got the strains from that didn't pan out and they seemed pleased with them, however, I have only seen them in my setup.

Plant numbers are set for the time as this is an Oregon Medical Grow and I'm at my limits. There are too few plants under 1200w, but I make it work with the scrog. Ah, the quest to move ever so close to the mythic 1 g/ watt. 

I've been meaning to try serious seeds. I'll pick up some of the ak47 and try it out. They seem very stable and not a shot in the dark.

Thanks, 

mm


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## dickkhead (Jun 7, 2012)

Home brewer would a pk 13/14 have any benefit or using shooting powder? I have some left over and was thinking it will help fatten things up!


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## homebrewer (Jun 7, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> Home brewer would a pk 13/14 have any benefit or using shooting powder? I have some left over and was thinking it will help fatten things up!


I think DG's bloom already supplies plenty of P and K but if you have it sitting around, give it a try I guess.


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## iceberg slim (Jun 8, 2012)

Great Job HB, 

Very impressed by your journal. It helped a lot. 
I went out and purchased the Dyna-gro line with some other products you statedyou used and extra root stimulator. 
Ive read through the journals but as a newer guy Im still a little confusedand was wondering if I could get some help with organizing a solidfeed/watering cycle. 
Im getting conflicting info from my hydro store guy, your journal and thefeeding charts on the websites. 

Im using 

-400w MH(grow)
HPS(Bloom)
-pro-mix soil
-RO spring water 
-Fiber root pouch pots
-home made yeast co2 

I went a purchased the Dyna-gro 4( grow,bloom,mag-pro,pro-tek) I also grabbedthe GH floralicious plus and General Organics Bio Root. I did not get thecal-mag or Koolbloom that you made mention to. 

Can you please help me with a feed/watering cycle (ml to L) with the productsabove. What to add for feed and what to add to water. Could you advise onKoolbloom's significance from your perspective and if you feel its necessarywhile using Floralicious plus and if yes can you include how you would add itto the F/W cycle. 
Also Im a bit unclear with the cal-mag. Or am I good to go with just Mag-pro?the only other product I have is a Nutrilife H202 liquid Oxidizer that I wastold was great from adding oxygen to water.
Below is an example of what someone had posted on yourjournal that you said yours was similar too. 
This is for recirculating systems:

Recirculating 

_*GRO BLM TEK MAG KLN*_
Week 1 *7.5ml 0ml.* *2.5ml0ml* *5ml (650ppm)*
Week 2 *10ml 0ml* *2.5ml0ml* *5ml (830ppm)*
Week 3 *12.5ml 0ml 5ml 0ml 0ml (1000ppm)*
Week 4 *15ml 0ml 5ml 0ml 0ml (1180ppm)*
FLOWER
Week 1 0ml *12.5ml 5ml 2.5ml 0ml (1170ppm)*
Week 2 0ml *12.5ml 5ml 2.5ml 0ml(1170ppm)*
Week 3 0ml *15ml 5ml 5ml 0ml(1500ppm)*
Week 4 0ml *15ml 5ml 5ml 0ml (1500ppm)*
Week 5 0ml *15ml 5ml 5ml 0ml(1500ppm)*
Week 6 0ml *15ml 5ml 5ml 0ml (1500ppm)*
Week 7 0ml *12.5ml 5ml 5ml 0ml(1310ppm)*
Week8 *FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH*

This guys schedule does not use DG-Grow during his flower,whereas you do and even dyna-gro states to use DG-Grow in week 6-8. 
Im curious to your maintance schedule. Once a week room cleaning and any specialproducts or disinfectents, Spraying or baths (youve stated that you do notfoliage feed). 
Any general advised as well, homemade co2, music/vibrations,heat/humidity issues etc. 

Thanks a Bunch


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## homebrewer (Jun 9, 2012)

iceberg slim said:


> Great Job HB,
> 
> Very impressed by your journal. It helped a lot.
> I went out and purchased the Dyna-gro line with some other products you statedyou used and extra root stimulator.
> ...


DynaGro's feeding chart for 'soil' isn't too bad. I don't use magpro or floralicious plus in the dirt and I've never used koolbloom with DG.

Generically, I use a couple mls of base in veg with enough protekt to put my pH in the right range, I usually double that for flower. If you've had success in the past with plant food, then feed at those same levels with DG.

http://www.greenhandsofaloha.com/ghoa_content/growing/feeding/schedules/DynaGro/Dyna Gro Feeding Chart.pdf


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## dickkhead (Jun 9, 2012)

in hydro over a solar storm on a flood n drain running dyna gro u recc running the full strength on the dyna chart? Seems LEDs require more nutes? I'm in week on flower and ran 1000 ppm, started in 63 ppm Tap, 350 ml gro, then I added kln, and mag pro, and bleach 
I was on my 4th week of veg but my scrog was filling fast so I flipped it and decided not to change the res thinking gro will help reduce the stretch should I go full bloom now? It's been a full 7 days with those nutes and on their chart they say go full bloom but Ik you like to mix it


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 9, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> in hydro over a solar storm on a flood n drain running dyna gro u recc running the full strength on the dyna chart? Seems LEDs require more nutes? I'm in week on flower and ran 1000 ppm, started in 63 ppm Tap, 350 ml gro, then I added kln, and mag pro, and bleach
> I was on my 4th week of veg but my scrog was filling fast so I flipped it and decided not to change the res thinking gro will help reduce the stretch should I go full bloom now? It's been a full 7 days with those nutes and on their chart they say go full bloom but Ik you like to mix it


I think he says the soil chart is ok, however the hydro schedule definitely seems too agressive to me. I also would tend to think the only reason led would affect nute uptake is due to the difference in evaporation from less heat of the lights. Perhaps the HID lights concentrate the nutes faster by evaporation, therefore the variable doesn't have to be accounted for as much evaporation with led. I am only guessing here, but it makes sense in my mind if it's even going to be a measureable amount.


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## homebrewer (Jun 9, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> in hydro over a solar storm on a flood n drain running dyna gro u recc running the full strength on the dyna chart? Seems LEDs require more nutes? I'm in week on flower and ran 1000 ppm, started in 63 ppm Tap, 350 ml gro, then I added kln, and mag pro, and bleach
> I was on my 4th week of veg but my scrog was filling fast so I flipped it and decided not to change the res thinking gro will help reduce the stretch should I go full bloom now? It's been a full 7 days with those nutes and on their chart they say go full bloom but Ik you like to mix it


I never go full bloom. Their bloom, IMO, doesn't supply enough N so I like to mix grow and bloom. My goal in hydro is to feed as much P and K as possible while maintaining healthy leaves. In the end though, regardless of what bottle you're using, if you're keeping plants healthy until the end then you'll get some really nice yields of outstanding medicine. 

In regards to DG's hydro feeding chart, it's waaay too hot IMO. Shoot for 1.0 EC and adjust from there after a grow or two.


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## dickkhead (Jun 10, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> I think he says the soil chart is ok, however the hydro schedule definitely seems too agressive to me. I also would tend to think the only reason led would affect nute uptake is due to the difference in evaporation from less heat of the lights. Perhaps the HID lights concentrate the nutes faster by evaporation, therefore the variable doesn't have to be accounted for as much evaporation with led. I am only guessing here, but it makes sense in my mind if it's even going to be a measureable amount.


the soil chart seemed a lil low cause right now im at 10 ml per gallon of gro to drop down to 3ml ill prob see def? 
from what ive been reading and I also talked to george from california light works and he says the plants will use more nutes when under leds cause there using the light more efficiently they have a higher photosynthesis rate.



homebrewer said:


> I never go full bloom. Their bloom, IMO, doesn't supply enough N so I like to mix grow and bloom. My goal in hydro is to feed as much P and K as possible while maintaining healthy leaves. In the end though, regardless of what bottle you're using, if you're keeping plants healthy until the end then you'll get some really nice yields of outstanding medicine.
> 
> In regards to DG's hydro feeding chart, it's waaay too hot IMO. Shoot for 1.0 EC and adjust from there after a grow or two.


so 700 ppm and my tap is 63 ppm and Iam using tap im gna run the mag pro, a lil bit of bleach, protekt 3ml-G, gro, and bloom prob 25%gro and the rest bloom. last week my ppm were 1000 but that also had kln and ph down contributing to that so I think ill shoot for 7-800 for my ppms 
thanks guys


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 10, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> the soil chart seemed a lil low cause right now im at 10 ml per gallon of gro to drop down to 3ml ill prob see def?
> from what ive been reading and I also talked to george from california light works and he says the plants will use more nutes when under leds cause there using the light more efficiently they have a higher photosynthesis rate.
> 
> 
> ...


Not sure about the leds being so superior, but I don't know much about them in general. I'd take everything the company says with a grain of salt, and read up on some scientific papers if available. I wanted to add that you might hold off on the bleach in the promix unless you think you have a reason to need it. You probably couldn't tell if you did anyway because you're blind to the roots. HB seems to do fine without bleach, and as I mentioned the DG has a higher amount of ammoniacal N, and that requires some beneficials to break it down. You may find you need to add more N than usual with Dyna if using bleach, but this is just my theory of logical deduction. Lastly, the addition of bleach in our aero systems is partially to counter the fact we use r.o. water, and basically just get the chlorine levels back up to tap amounts. Since you are already using tap water it seems like you shouldn't have need to add even more.


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## dickkhead (Jun 10, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Not sure about the leds being so superior, but I don't know much about them in general. I'd take everything the company says with a grain of salt, and read up on some scientific papers if available. I wanted to add that you might hold off on the bleach in the promix unless you think you have a reason to need it. You probably couldn't tell if you did anyway because you're blind to the roots. HB seems to do fine without bleach, and as I mentioned the DG has a higher amount of ammoniacal N, and that requires some beneficials to break it down. You may find you need to add more N that usual with Dyna if using bleach, but this is just my theory of logical deduction. Lastly, the addition of bleach in our aero systems is partially to counter the fact we use r.o. water, and basically just get the chlorine levels back up to tap amounts. Since you are already using tap water it seems like you shouldn't have need to add even more.


I think you might be confused I was asking about a hydro feeding so that's why I added bleach a very small amount cuase yes your right im using taP water but my tap is 63 ppm so I fig it's lo enough to add some anyways. And I don't add it to my water when feeding my promix plants one thing I did do was added some organic lime cause I didn't like the 8.0 reading my soil meter is telling me and also fig it would get some cal mag out of it which dyna seems to be lacking


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## homebrewer (Jun 10, 2012)

Guys, please do not quote or respond to the troll 'scooby' above. His post has been flagged and should be removed shortly as he does not have permission to troll my journal. Thanks fellas.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 11, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> I think you might be confused I was asking about a hydro feeding so that's why I added bleach a very small amount cuase yes your right im using taP water but my tap is 63 ppm so I fig it's lo enough to add some anyways. And I don't add it to my water when feeding my promix plants one thing I did do was added some organic lime cause I didn't like the 8.0 reading my soil meter is telling me and also fig it would get some cal mag out of it which dyna seems to be lacking


Oh sorry, yeah thought you were asking about the promix nutes. Btw, ppm is no indication of how much chlorine is in there, it's a measurement of salts only like the nutes. You could use a pool chlorine test kit to tell, but the easiest way to tell is with your nose. If there's any hint of chlorine smell it's probably enough to do the job. Also, I don't know how accurate those soil meters are, but read you can read the runoff from your soil to check the PH or mix the soil with plain r.o water and then test the water that drains out. Lime raises ph, not lowers it. The peat moss base in promix is acidic (low ph) so they already add lime to raise it up into decent levels for plants. Try to get the readings around 6-6.5 I think is decent for soil.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 11, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Guys, please do not quote or respond to the troll 'scooby' above. His post has been flagged and should be removed shortly as he does not have permission to troll my journal. Thanks fellas.


I always stand behind you HB because I know you have good intentions. I've never seen ScoobyDoo here before, and may not agree with what he says either, however I'll play devil's advocate and ask why you think his comments were so trollish? Perhaps there's a history I'm unaware of, and I know I should stay out of this, but I just see more of an opportunity to challenge his comments rather than condemn him as I don't believe it was his intention to be rude in any way other than state his personal beliefs? Obviously he is quite mistaken about the conoisseur plants looking horrible in the end, but yeah that's kinda weird...

EDIT: I have apparently learned there is a longer history to this whole thing, and don't want to get involved.


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## dickkhead (Jun 11, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Oh sorry, yeah thought you were asking about the promix nutes. Btw, ppm is no indication of how much chlorine is in there, it's a measurement of salts only like the nutes. You could use a pool chlorine test kit to tell, but the easiest way to tell is with your nose. If there's any hint of chlorine smell it's probably enough to do the job. Also, I don't know how accurate those soil meters are, but read you can read the runoff from your soil to check the PH or mix the soil with plain r.o water and then test the water that drains out. Lime raises ph, not lowers it. The peat moss base in promix is acidic (low ph) so they already add lime to raise it up into decent levels for plants. Try to get the readings around 6-6.5 I think is decent for soil.


ah good to know the chlorine isnt apart of the ppm but I could smell it but added a smal cap to 35 galon res last time and it worked woners keeping algae at bay so I did it again lol. I thought lime neutralized ph? I have been ph'ing my water to ensure the plants are utilizing everything but before that I was just using tap mixing and applying to the plants and they were thriving! at week 5 I added the bloom and backed off on grow and noticed a lil yellowing but have sense corrected that. 

im going to try the foliage pro next going into flower and add bloom with it after 2 weeks and see how they do theres somone here who runs FP all the way through hopefully he reads this and post a few pics of his results Id like to see how they came out and also wonder if he only used FP or added mag pro, pro tekt , and was using tap or RO?....


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## dickkhead (Jun 11, 2012)

Ill respect your decision HB but he wasnt realy attacking, as tb said he was just wondering why the AN looked so bad and I know you belive its because of the NPK ratio that AN uses but he for some reason thinks the sensi will do better? well scooby why dont you do a comparison? any comparison grow is alwasy interesting to watch but when you do them things have to be precise enviroment, genetics, feeding, etc to realy be able to tell which is better. Hb threads I think it doesnt get any more precise with the info he provides maybe send him 2 bottle if your that confident....


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## VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO (Jun 11, 2012)

OMFG, he's pulling huge yields from his 600 watt lights and those plants are clearly outdoors in the ground.


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## iceberg slim (Jun 11, 2012)

Thanks for the reply.
The chart I was looking at was slightly different.
When you say a couple mls of base in veg, im assuming dyna gro-veg with protek? and when you double that for flower do you still add the dyna gro bloom( and how much per gallon)? and are you doubling protek as well? 
That sounds like 5ml per gallon of dyna gro veg for flower...am I correct?


Thanks


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## homebrewer (Jun 11, 2012)

iceberg slim said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> The chart I was looking at was slightly different.
> When you say a couple mls of base in veg, im assuming dyna gro-veg with protek? and when you double that for flower do you still add the dyna gro bloom( and how much per gallon)? and are you doubling protek as well?
> That sounds like 5ml per gallon of dyna gro veg for flower...am I correct?
> ...


Generally speaking, a tsp of plant food and an equal amount of protekt should put your pH in the proper range (depends on your water) and is a good starting point for flower. Cut those values in half for veg. You should not need more than the amounts I just gave you so think about dialing back in the future as you find a _base nuterotekt_ ratio that works in regards to pH.


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## medicalmary (Jun 13, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> im going to try the foliage pro next going into flower and add bloom with it after 2 weeks and see how they do theres somone here who runs FP all the way through hopefully he reads this and post a few pics of his results Id like to see how they came out and also wonder if he only used FP or added mag pro, pro tekt , and was using tap or RO?....hs


I use foliage pro in veg up to 1st week of flower. The problem with foliage pro in flower is it is hard to get the right ratio of phosphorus and potassium in mid flower when you are adding the foliage pro. I use it in veg because I can supply the plants with as much nitrogen as they need and keep the ppm on the low end during vegetative growth. The plants don't need high amounts of phosphorus and potassium in veg, so I stay away from the grow formula. 

This enables me to not have to really drain to waste much fertilizer to ensure that the unused fertilizer doesn't build up in the media. My plants vegetatively grow for 2 months in promix and I don't have to leech the media once during that time. I do, however, add dolomite lime to the promix for additional buffering capacity and I fertilize with every watering. I don't subscribe to the fert, fert, straight water routine, as I think that can mess with the plants natural osmotic reaction to salts in soil and can inhibit the plants ability to uptake water. 

Low ppms all the way through with the right ration of n-p-k and all micronutrients as well as a media that has sufficient buffering capacity is all ya need. Cal-Mag is not necessary unless you have magnesium deficiency or R/O water. However, if you are using soil or soilless media, just adding dolomite lime is easier. Less things to measure.

mm


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## dickkhead (Jun 13, 2012)

medicalmary said:


> I use foliage pro in veg up to 1st week of flower. The problem with foliage pro in flower is it is hard to get the right ratio of phosphorus and potassium in mid flower when you are adding the foliage pro. I use it in veg because I can supply the plants with as much nitrogen as they need and keep the ppm on the low end during vegetative growth. The plants don't need high amounts of phosphorus and potassium in veg, so I stay away from the grow formula.
> 
> This enables me to not have to really drain to waste much fertilizer to ensure that the unused fertilizer doesn't build up in the media. My plants vegetatively grow for 2 months in promix and I don't have to leech the media once during that time. I do, however, add dolomite lime to the promix for additional buffering capacity and I fertilize with every watering. I don't subscribe to the fert, fert, straight water routine, as I think that can mess with the plants natural osmotic reaction to salts in soil and can inhibit the plants ability to uptake water.
> 
> ...


thanks for the response I have noticed that adding lime to the pro mix does help atleast it did with organic run I did, and I just added a small amount to my girls now. im starting to think the same as far as feeding goes some people consider pro mix like hydro and hydro plants see fert every time they see water, but like you said lo enough to not cause buildup or see deff, funny you mention that osmotic relatioin TB just emailed me an article on that! in bloom what do you run? how much protekt do you run in flower as well?


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## medicalmary (Jun 13, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> thanks for the response I have noticed that adding lime to the pro mix does help atleast it did with organic run I did, and I just added a small amount to my girls now. im starting to think the same as far as feeding goes some people consider pro mix like hydro and hydro plants see fert every time they see water, but like you said lo enough to not cause buildup or see deff, funny you mention that osmotic relatioin TB just emailed me an article on that! in bloom what do you run? how much protekt do you run in flower as well?


1-3-2 n-p-k in flower is pretty standard. I'm usually at that 2 weeks into flower. As far as silicates are concerned, I usually run enough to balance my pH. In my water it takes about 60% base nutes and 40% pro-tekt to reach a 6.0-6.4 pH. You could add more to up your silicate EC, however, I've pretty much stopped using pH up and down and just adjust my protekt levels with the base fertilizer levels I add (mainly because I'm lazy and I I've got the measurements down pat). I haven't used pH up or down in months. As far as flushing is concerned, I'm not a believer. I run lower levels of fertilizer right up until the end and haven't flushed in a year. There is absolutely no "chemical" taste in my buds. No difference between when I did flush other than healthier plants right up to harvest.

mm


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## dickkhead (Jun 14, 2012)

medicalmary said:


> 1-3-2 n-p-k in flower is pretty standard. I'm usually at that 2 weeks into flower. As far as silicates are concerned, I usually run enough to balance my pH. In my water it takes about 60% base nutes and 40% pro-tekt to reach a 6.0-6.4 pH. You could add more to up your silicate EC, however, I've pretty much stopped using pH up and down and just adjust my protekt levels with the base fertilizer levels I add (mainly because I'm lazy and I I've got the measurements down pat). I haven't used pH up or down in months. As far as flushing is concerned, I'm not a believer. I run lower levels of fertilizer right up until the end and haven't flushed in a year. There is absolutely no "chemical" taste in my buds. No difference between when I did flush other than healthier plants right up to harvest.
> 
> mm


I'm still new to this so please forgive me but when u say 1-3-2 N-p-k Is that tsp per gallon 1tsp FP, 3tsp bloom,2tsp of protekt? And yea I'm gna try to just keep them green uptil when I harvest but not over feed them!


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 14, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> I'm still new to this so please forgive me but when u say 1-3-2 N-p-k Is that tsp per gallon 1tsp FP, 3tsp bloom,2tsp of protekt? And yea I'm gna try to just keep them green uptil when I harvest but not over feed them!


DH, it's the standard representation of N-P-K nute ratios. Meaning 1 part N -to- 3parts P -to- 2 parts K. I mean this only as a constructive criticism, but you're still looking for that magic bullet that doesn't exist. Your variables are different, whethere it's different lighting or something as subtle as different elevation or average levels of atmospheric pressure that will affect transpiration, which in turn changes things. HB is not quick to tell you his exact numbers I'm sure because he even finesses them on a regular basis due to feedback from his plants. As you can see between all of the good growers no doubt all having good results in their environments that there is more than one way to crack this egg. You have a base to start from now, but from here you'll have to find what works best for you in your environment. Resorting back to the product labels for guidance was not what HB had in mind, I'm sure he wanted you to learn the art of reading your plants and acting accordingly... 

Just make slow changes from what's working now. We are always here to show pics and provide feedback. It won't be as hard as you think, but somewhat of an ongoing process, especially with new strains and phenos. I am still honing my own skills, but the forums are great because there is always someone to help 24/7... Make sure you keep a journal of feeding levels, ec, lighting, etc. And keep filling this stuff in forever. That way if you want to run a particular strain again you'll be able to start out with what you already knew from the last time and your results will be that much better and easier the second round right from day 1.

I've seen your pics and know what a massive bodybuilder you are, and surely you understand that if I ate the same as you for a month I'd probably have to call the guys to cut a hole in the side of my house and take me out on a stretcher-lol. Plants are no different in that they vary the same, genetically and environmentally influenced.


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## dickkhead (Jun 14, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> DH, it's the standard representation of N-P-K nute ratios. Meaning 1 part N -to- 3parts P -to- 2 parts K. I mean this only as a constructive criticism, but you're still looking for that magic bullet that doesn't exist. Your variables are different, whethere it's different lighting or something as subtle as different elevation or average levels of atmospheric pressure that will affect transpiration, which in turn changes things. HB is not quick to tell you his exact numbers I'm sure because he even finesses them on a regular basis due to feedback from his plants. As you can see between all of the good growers no doubt all having good results in their environments that there is more than one way to crack this egg. You have a base to start from now, but from here you'll have to find what works best for you in your environment. Resorting back to the product labels for guidance was not what HB had in mind, I'm sure he wanted you to learn the art of reading your plants and acting accordingly...
> 
> Just make slow changes from what's working now. We are always here to show pics and provide feedback. It won't be as hard as you think, but somewhat of an ongoing process, especially with new strains and phenos. I am still honing my own skills, but the forums are great because there is always someone to help 24/7... Make sure you keep a journal of feeding levels, ec, lighting, etc. And keep filling this stuff in forever. That way if you want to run a particular strain again you'll be able to start out with what you already knew from the last time and your results will be that much better and easier the second round right from day 1.
> 
> I've seen your pics and know what a massive bodybuilder you are, and surely you understand that if I ate the same as you for a month I'd probably have to call the guys to cut a hole in the side of my house and take me out on a stretcher-lol. Plants are no different in that they vary the same, genetically and environmentally influenced.


Ok it's still confusing 1 part 3 part 2 part to how many other parts lol I'm confused on what u mean by it i get what Npk is but explain the whole ratio thing on some bottles it will say diff Npk ratios for different scenarios veg or bloom and some of those numbers go as high as 20 like jacks classic. 
Growing is very similiar to bodybuilding in somany ways it's not funny for instance high carb diets low carb diets, cut water and sodium or dont cut water or sodium at the end of the diet (kinda like nutes or flush at the end)and Ive been competing for 5 Years and know what works and what doesn't work and am still learning!

I guess I still need some time to dial things and a grow journal is def key!


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## medicalmary (Jun 14, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> Ok it's still confusing 1 part 3 part 2 part to how many other parts lol I'm confused on what u mean by it i get what Npk is but explain the whole ratio thing on some bottles it will say diff Npk ratios for different scenarios veg or bloom and some of those numbers go as high as 20 like jacks classic.
> Growing is very similiar to bodybuilding in somany ways it's not funny for instance high carb diets low carb diets, cut water and sodium or dont cut water or sodium at the end of the diet (kinda like nutes or flush at the end)and Ive been competing for 5 Years and know what works and what doesn't work and am still learning!
> 
> I guess I still need some time to dial things and a grow journal is def key!


16 essential salts are necessary for plants to grow. The big three are nitrogen (n), phosphorus (p), and potassium (k). Each fertilizer you use has a 3 digit number on them that has the ratio of these macro fertilizer salts. Calcium, Magnesium, and Silicon are mid tier and are supplied in much lower dosages. And everything else (called micro nutrients) is supplied in much smaller quantities. So, If you are mixing two fertilizers with fertilizer #1 having an n-p-k of 2-1-2 and fertilizer two have an n-p-k of 1-2-2 you would have a new n-p-k for the mixture of these two fertilizers. to figure it out you just add the two n-p-ks together and reduce. so, it would be 3-3-4 n-p-k or if you want 1.5-1.5-2, etc. However, you would only have this ratio if you mix them at the exact same rate, so each fertilizer comprise exactly 50% of the mixture. The reason we all like dyna gro is that it is a complete fertilizer with all the micro nutrients in the base, so we don't have to worry about really strange deficiency symptoms from popping up. I have no idea what a manganese deficiency look like off the top of my head and don't plan on learning what one looks like anytime soon.

When we talk about parts in terms of n-p-k we are not talking about the ratio of actually elements available in the fertilizer to one another. We are not talking about dyna-gro part A or B, etc. We are talking about for every atom of nitrogen there is going to be one atom of phosphorus in the solution.

now, while the ratios might be the same when reduce like say jacks is a 20-20-20 and I have a different fertilizer (X) that is a 1-1-1. These are the same ratio, but the jacks has more of a concentration of the elements in it. So, when i mix jacks with my water I use a hell of a lot less then when I use fertilizer X. Infact I use 20 time more of fertilizer X to get the same parts per million of elements of my fertilizer. So, the higher the number the more concentrated and usually the cheaper it is in the long term.

mm


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 14, 2012)

Yes Medicalary, perfect explanation. Dickhead, if you need to visualize it in your head, a simple way to put it is that in dynagro 9-3-5 in any given amount there will be a ratio comprised of: N-P-K where
N (nitrogen) =9 parts
P=(phosphorus) =3 parts
K=(potassium) =5 parts

No matter how strong you mix it into your water it will have the same RATIOS, but just at different total strength depending on dilusion (ppm).Say you want to have a higher ratio of potassium like 9-3-25 - If you mix the 9-3-5 product with exactly equal amounts of a 0-0-20 product you get:
9-3-5
+-+-+
0-0-20 = 9-3-25 as your final ratio. 
Then you take that and just mix the proper amount into water to get the ppm you want, but it will always be at the same exact ratio. The thing you have to be careful of is mixing the full strength nutes to eachother because some of them do not play nicely together in high concentrations- hence why most nute brands have a part A and part B. Luckily dynagro seems to be special in that it can all be in one bottle and they say it's a trade secret how they make it work that way. Hope this makes sense. Once you wrap your head around it- it's not so complicated until you try to make a certain N-P-K ratio out of different amounts of different bottles, since they might both include N when you are only trying to raise your K then you have to account for the extra N that comes with both bottles if that makes sense. There are "nutrient calculators" online you can use for this sort of complexity, a good one to start with is the "canna-stats calculator" which you can read more about and find here: http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htmr 

The cool thing about Dyna is really all you have to do is fine tune HB's guidelines for your situation by watching the plants. A little more or less grow, bloom, protekt and magpro, and that's as hard as it will be to get great results. (other than keeping the ph in check and providing the correct ppm's).


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## dickkhead (Jun 14, 2012)

medicalmary said:


> 16 essential salts are necessary for plants to grow. The big three are nitrogen (n), phosphorus (p), and potassium (k). Each fertilizer you use has a 3 digit number on them that has the ratio of these macro fertilizer salts. Calcium, Magnesium, and Silicon are mid tier and are supplied in much lower dosages. And everything else (called micro nutrients) is supplied in much smaller quantities. So, If you are mixing two fertilizers with fertilizer #1 having an n-p-k of 2-1-2 and fertilizer two have an n-p-k of 1-2-2 you would have a new n-p-k for the mixture of these two fertilizers. to figure it out you just add the two n-p-ks together and reduce. so, it would be 3-3-4 n-p-k or if you want 1.5-1.5-2, etc. However, you would only have this ratio if you mix them at the exact same rate, so each fertilizer comprise exactly 50% of the mixture. The reason we all like dyna gro is that it is a complete fertilizer with all the micro nutrients in the base, so we don't have to worry about really strange deficiency symptoms from popping up. I have no idea what a manganese deficiency look like off the top of my head and don't plan on learning what one looks like anytime soon.
> 
> When we talk about parts in terms of n-p-k we are not talking about the ratio of actually elements available in the fertilizer to one another. We are not talking about dyna-gro part A or B, etc. We are talking about for every atom of nitrogen there is going to be one atom of phosphorus in the solution.
> 
> ...





Trichy Bastard said:


> Yes Medicalary, perfect explanation. Dickhead, if you need to visualize it in your head, a simple way to put it is that in dynagro 9-3-5 in any given amount there will be a ratio comprised of: N-P-K where
> N (nitrogen) =9 parts
> P=(phosphorus) =3 parts
> K=(potassium) =5 parts
> ...


thank you both for breaking that down and now I understand why some nutes hav high and low numbers on their NPK. and im going to try and lower my ppm a bit cause theres no sense in running 1000 ppm if not needed! and if I see def ill add something back in its just crazy that 2 of pinnaple express plants which come to find out are heavy feeders show def on week 8 of flower feeding at such high levels in pro mix 1tsp grow 1tsp of bloom, 2ml protekt, 2 ml mag pro= 1000 ppm and showed some yellow leaves im gna try half tsp foliage pro to 1.5 bloom, 2 ml mag pro and 3 ml pro tekt its a 10 week strain and it still is popping out white hairs and fattening up. but so far the resin production is top notch!


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## homebrewer (Jun 14, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> ...its just crazy that 2 of pinnaple express plants which come to find out are heavy feeders show def on week 8 of flower feeding at such high levels in pro mix 1tsp grow 1tsp of bloom, 2ml protekt, 2 ml mag pro= 1000 ppm and showed some yellow leaves im gna try half tsp foliage pro to 1.5 bloom, 2 ml mag pro and 3 ml pro tekt its a 10 week strain and it still is popping out white hairs and fattening up. but so far the resin production is top notch!


I promise you that you're not seeing deficiencies, you're seeing the signs of overfeeding. You're currently feeding your promix girls 3 times that of where I feed mine and I've long forgotten what a deficient leaf looks like.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jun 14, 2012)

I have some 2/3 meter plants and they are only getting 3ml of grow and are green as could be.


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## dickkhead (Jun 15, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I promise you that you're not seeing deficiencies, you're seeing the signs of overfeeding. You're currently feeding your promix girls 3 times that of where I feed mine and I've long forgotten what a deficient leaf looks like.


well this strain is known to be a heavy feeder but your prob right im gna back dilute that down to 300ppm and go from there


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 15, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> well this strain is known to be a heavy feeder but your prob right im gna back dilute that down to 300ppm and go from there


 Heavy feeder=might take a few hundred extra ppm's- not couple thousand extra lol... If you are having a deficiency it is more likely due to a lockout or burn. Now imagine all those people out there running under the common "wisdom?" to feed as high as possible just short of nute burns. Imagine how the systems in the plant start to breakdown under the unnatural chemical load as it tries to compensate. Even before the burn is evident, the plant is not flourishing in a healthy state, but making compromises to keep systems going. Growth begins to slow as the plant focuses on survival mode under stressful conditions where the chemical reactions in the tissues are being pushed just before the point of system breakdown. And these same growers are actually slowing down the process of growth by the very method they think they are increasing it by. You might be surprised when you feed the plant just the maximum amount it can healthily use and process that it will actually grow at it's fastest rate under those optimal conditions. Just like how people can OD on vitamins, nutrients in high doses become toxic to a plant and they are doing damage and disrupting things well before any outward burning symptoms are evident.


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## sharpshoota (Jun 15, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> I'm still new to this so please forgive me but when u say 1-3-2 N-p-k Is that tsp per gallon 1tsp FP, 3tsp bloom,2tsp of protekt? And yea I'm gna try to just keep them green uptil when I harvest but not over feed them!


1-3-2 means the percentage of the actual elements in a given bottle. meaning 1 percent of, for example, a quart is N, 3 percent is P, 2 percent is K

some info on nitrogen:
Nitrate (NO3) (quickest available) 
Amonia Nitrate (NH3) Ammonium Nitrate (NH4) ( like trichy bastard said, requires bacteria to breakdown into nitrate)
Urea Nitrate [CO(NH2)2] (basically has to be broken down to ammonium nitrate then to nitrate before the plant can use it, a 3-step process)
***Dynagro does not use urea nitrogen, I believe some advanced nutrients products use this form...

an example:
Nitrate NO3 = 14+16(3)= 62
atomic weight of N=14.0067
atomic weight of O=15.9994
divide the atomic weight of nitrogen by the atomic weight of the molecule to get the percent of nitrogen in that molecule
N is 22.58% of NO3

But that doesnt mean the ppms are 1 part nitrogen to 3 parts phosphorus to 2 parts potassium. So what they do is maniupulate the amount (shown in percentages aka NPK) of each element they add to the (example) quart factoring the atomic weight of each molecule to provide a desired ppm amount of each element....


A 1-3-2 @ 1tsp/gal
13ppm - N
17ppm - P
22ppm - K

NO3 - 23% Nitrogen
P2O5 - 44% Phosphorus
K2O - 83% Potassium
(I rounded % up)

this should make complete sense now... the easiest way to remeber this is what the others said 1-3-2 is 1 part nitrogen to 3 parts phosphorus to 2 parts potassium


p.s. i had to retype this.... f-ing logged me out


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## sharpshoota (Jun 15, 2012)

you dont need 10 bottles, 10 promises. Just understand the basics of how a plant works and what a plant needs. Not the promises of a salesman trying to sell a product... 
And when you reach that point you will realize its a simple process... LOL... LIKE HOMEBREWER HAS BEEN TRYING TO SAY/PROVE ALL ALONG!!

HB is a great contribution to the growing community here at RIU. Many newbs dont listen though and its quite an amusement...


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jun 15, 2012)

Less is more. I love only having to buy 4 nutrients. I've heard of people spending over $500 on a grow in nutes. WTF?! I spend probably $30 on nutes each grow, if even.


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## homebrewer (Jun 16, 2012)

sharpshoota said:


> some info on nitrogen:
> Nitrate (NO3) (quickest available)
> Amonia Nitrate (NH3) Ammonium Nitrate (NH4) ( like trichy bastard said, requires bacteria to breakdown into nitrate)
> Urea Nitrate [CO(NH2)2] (basically has to be broken down to ammonium nitrate then to nitrate before the plant can use it, a 3-step process)
> ***Dynagro does not use urea nitrogen, *I believe some advanced nutrients products use this form*...


Connoisseur uses _Urea_ and _Other water soluble nitrogen_ to make up 73% of their total nitrogen composition. These are cheap sources of nitrogen which are not typically found in hydroponic formulas. I think based on how my plants looked at the end of this journal, it's pretty telling as to why we always see the nitrogen being composed of nitrate and ammoniacal in high quality hydroponic plant foods.



> *Water Soluble Nitrogen:*
> 1. A form of fertilizer in which the nitrogen is readily available for uptake by plants, and which provides quick color and growth response, limited response duration and *high foliar burn and leaching potential*; WSN sources are typically less expensive per pound of nutrient than Water insoluble nitrogen (WIN) sources.


I'll post a picture in a week or so of my H&G test grow. Aqua Flakes is doing fantastic and is further proof that AN's Connoisseur is total garbage for hydroponic use.


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## dickkhead (Jun 17, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Heavy feeder=might take a few hundred extra ppm's- not couple thousand extra lol... If you are having a deficiency it is more likely due to a lockout or burn. Now imagine all those people out there running under the common "wisdom?" to feed as high as possible just short of nute burns. Imagine how the systems in the plant start to breakdown under the unnatural chemical load as it tries to compensate. Even before the burn is evident, the plant is not flourishing in a healthy state, but making compromises to keep systems going. Growth begins to slow as the plant focuses on survival mode under stressful conditions where the chemical reactions in the tissues are being pushed just before the point of system breakdown. And these same growers are actually slowing down the process of growth by the very method they think they are increasing it by. You might be surprised when you feed the plant just the maximum amount it can healthily use and process that it will actually grow at it's fastest rate under those optimal conditions. Just like how people can OD on vitamins, nutrients in high doses become toxic to a plant and they are doing damage and disrupting things well before any outward burning symptoms are evident.


ik I shouldve never emailed that dg rep he said fee inbtween the soil and drain to waste chart, and I did think it was to much but he insisted that the plants need it in productivity and the lo doses that they say to use on the back of the bottle are for house plant mostly not MJ under HID or LED. sense i was feeding that high im gna play it safe and do a mild nute flush 7 days out and finish with ph water this round!


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## matatan (Jun 26, 2012)

hey HB question for ya..
i have an aerocloner i just purchased at a very good price and plan on running a flood n drain 3x3 table under 600whps. i have 2yrs growing n have kept it simple growing in 3-5gal pots of coco, hand watering, using gh micro/bloom(lucas/h3ad) with a few addictives like sweet raw and calmag+. 

since i will be cloning out of an aerocloner i have no means of getting the clones into rockwool(or do i?), so i was thinking with going what i know, small pots maybe 1-2gal w coco as many as i can fit in the 3x3 table. iv never seen anyone on this site running flood n drain w coco, they all say its not a good idea, it will clog up your fill/drain. 
but if i were to use fabric pots where there isnt any holes, and flood like if it where rockwool i shouldnt have any blockage issues because none of the coco will be exposed . am i right or am i right?? lol

flooding will have to be minimal compared to rockwool probably only once or twice per day i understand that. is there anything else i should be aware of and plan for??

my tap is 200-250ppm, what would be a good flowering grow/bloom/protekt ml per gal, feeding coco with my tap? 

great work dude! awesome detailed threads


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## homebrewer (Jun 26, 2012)

matatan said:


> since i will be cloning out of an aerocloner i have no means of getting the clones into rockwool(or do i?),


If you wanted to work with rockwool, what you could do is take the rooted cutting from your aero cloner and set it in the rockwool block (I like 6" blocks). There will be some 'air space' around the roots after placing the cutting in the circular cutout which can then be filled in with a little coco to insure the roots don't dry out. Top-water for a few days until the roots have grown into the blocks and voila, you're good to go. 

Personally, I wouldn't run coco in flood and drain but if you want to be the guy that shows us all it _can_ be done and it doesn't create a big mess, have at it. 



> my tap is 200-250ppm, what would be a good flowering grow/bloom/protekt ml per gal, feeding coco with my tap?


I would suggest RO water. In any event, if you like the results you're getting with GH, feed at the same EC with DynaGro. High quality, balanced fertilizers are consistent and stable and are trouble-free to work with. The same EC can be used regardless of the brand.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 26, 2012)

I have a bag of rockwool "croutons" - something like that might fill in the hole too, or perhaps even filling a large netpot with these like soil could be done in lieu of cubes altogether. The rockwool in this form has different characteristics and tends to get more soggy however.


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## dickkhead (Jun 26, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> If you wanted to work with rockwool, what you could do is take the rooted cutting from your aero cloner and set it in the rockwool block (I like 6" blocks). There will be some 'air space' around the roots after placing the cutting in the circular cutout which can then be filled in with a little coco to insure the roots don't dry out. Top-water for a few days until the roots have grown into the blocks and voila, you're good to go.
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't run coco in flood and drain but if you want to be the guy that shows us all it _can_ be done and it doesn't create a big mess, have at it.
> 
> ...



I'm currently running a flood and drain with 3 gallon smart pots and roots coco flooding for 15min every 8 hours with a 5-6" flood and these things are thriving! Also straight tap and feeding at half what DG recc on there hydro chart but replacing 25% of the bloom with grow formula and mag pro at 1.25 And pro tekt at 3ml/gal ( thanks HB) I'm on week 3 today of flower and there happy so far


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## matatan (Jun 27, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I would suggest RO water. In any event, if you like the results you're getting with GH, feed at the same EC with DynaGro. High quality, balanced fertilizers are consistent and stable and are trouble-free to work with. The same EC can be used regardless of the brand.


i never pass 1000ppm if i get heavy handed i just add fresh water. but when i switch to dynagro i will adapt your philosophy of 1-3-2, will i be ok going with DGs recommended hydro chart then adding fresh water to get ideal ppm range?
do/can u recommend any specific brand of RO machine?



dickkhead said:


> I'm currently running a flood and drain with 3 gallon smart pots and roots coco flooding for 15min every 8 hours with a 5-6" flood and these things are thriving!


pics??? thread??? id love to follow along and watch your ladies grow up.


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## homebrewer (Jun 27, 2012)

matatan said:


> i never pass 1000ppm if i get heavy handed i just add fresh water. but when i switch to dynagro i will adapt your philosophy of 1-3-2,


It's just that with 200-250 ppm water, it'll be hard to maintain beautiful girls all the way to the end. That's quite a large amount of calcium, chloride, sodium, sulfate and magnesium in your water and I think by the end of the grow, your plants will show you that they did not need all of that. My water is where yours is which is why i use RO.RO is not necessary to grow plants but you'll get better yields and healthier plants with RO as apposed to _your_ tap water. 


> will i be ok going with DGs recommended hydro chart then adding fresh water to get ideal ppm range?


I think their proportions are fairly accurate so if you scale things back to a lower ppm, I think you'll be set. You wont need magpro with that water you're using. If you have it and wanted to use it, maybe 1/2ml per gallon would be enough. 



> do/can u recommend any specific brand of RO machine?


I use the hydrologic stealth 200 because it's the only one in its size that is offered.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 27, 2012)

Also if you have a costco where you live, you can't beat the quality for the price of their unit- I think it even has the uv stage and the whole kit w/tank & faucet is $120. Anyone could install in an hour or 2 at most... The replacement filters are also available there for a good price. I found a 1/2" clear tubing slips tightly over the end of the faucet and I just route to refill my 5 gallon water bottles on the floor in advance and use as needed in my res.


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## unohu69 (Jun 28, 2012)

hey HB, youve probly been asked this before, IDK. Have you ever used the FoxFarm line up of nutes? I was jus curious as to your opinion of them. My buddy jus ordered the whole line-up. like 8 or 9 bottles of shit. granted your probly only using 3 or 4 at one time. bout like me i sposse.

I finally got some F+ and have been using it, dont know if its really making a difference yet, but will continue with it.


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## homebrewer (Jun 28, 2012)

unohu69 said:


> hey HB, youve probly been asked this before, IDK. Have you ever used the FoxFarm line up of nutes? I was jus curious as to your opinion of them. My buddy jus ordered the whole line-up. like 8 or 9 bottles of shit. granted your probly only using 3 or 4 at one time. bout like me i sposse.


I've always considered fox farm and botanicare to be pretty comparable to one another and I used Botanicare's Pure Blend for about 8 years. Your buddy doesn't need 8-9 different bottles to grow a plant but I'm sure what he has will work. 




> I finally got some F+ and have been using it, dont know if its really making a difference yet, but will continue with it.


I really like it in hydro but found it doesn't make a noticeable difference in the dirt.


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## unohu69 (Jun 28, 2012)

right on. Ill stick with my Dg. its easy and works great. I think the only FF product he didnt get was the Sledgehammer.. 

Do you find the need to flush your soil less plants every couple of weeks? 

i seem to have to bout every 3-5 weeks. otherwise i can tell the plants start to get sickly looking, i assume from the salt build up in the container.


for the F+, I jus figure at only 1ml a gallon, im not out anything really, and probly aint gonna hurt.





* on a side note, was there much complaining about malware attack from the site? a couple weeks ago, a few times??
It kept me away for a while, I was waiting for them to fix the problem. Im not horny for the change in my color scheme, but will deal with it....


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## homebrewer (Jun 28, 2012)

unohu69 said:


> right on. Ill stick with my Dg. its easy and works great.


I switched from Botanicare to DG in the dirt not because DG was far superior, but because it was easier to use and at a very minimum, performed just as well. I also liked the fact that my hydro food could now be used in the dirt. I didn't love having my bottles of Pure Blend and GH plant foods run out at different times which means I had to make more trips to the hydro store. 

The benefits of DynaGro are a little muted in promix. The fact that DG is pH-stable doesn't mean much when you're growing in the dirt. DG is highly concentrated but brands like ff and botanicare are reasonably priced too and when growing in the dirt, you're not using as much plant food as you do in hydro so the cost benefit is minimized as well. DG is also nice because you don't need to use boosters but then again, PK boosters in the dirt don't work as well as they do in hydro so the seasoned dirt grower probably wasn't using one to begin with. 



> Do you find the need to flush your soil less plants every couple of weeks?


Nope. I water with a measured amount which gives me about 10-15% runoff. This runoff keeps salts from building up in the medium. Also, if you're on a feed, water, feed, type schedule, the 'water' days should keep the medium pretty clean. I've even started recycling my dirt for a second grow and it's working great. This plant is Casey Jones and it was grown in recycled promix:






> for the F+, I jus figure at only 1ml a gallon, im not out anything really, and probly aint gonna hurt.


It's cheap enough to experiment with in the dirt. 





> * on a side note, was there much complaining about malware attack from the site? a couple weeks ago, a few times??
> It kept me away for a while, I was waiting for them to fix the problem. Im not horny for the change in my color scheme, but will deal with it....


Google blocks this site occasionally, not sure what the heck is going on here.


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## unohu69 (Jun 28, 2012)

I really switched to DG because it was so easy. some protekt, some grow. and bam, my plants straightened right out and did amazing. I owe that part to you.
I could have so easily fallen into the AN trap, but now I know a hell of a lot more. and i dont think a plant really needs all that fancy shit, and they cant admire the pretty labels, so i dont think they really care where the nutes come from. I mostly stick with DG because its a complete nutrient product. I have looked, and theres only one or two others that can make that claim (with out buying 8 bottles of additives).

on top of that, everything else i look at, is pretty resource heavy. anything that tells me to add 2-3 tsp/gallon, plus another tsp, plus another 1/2 of that, well.. adds up to quick. my quart bottles of DG last a very long time.

while i understand all plants require slightly different environments and nute considerations, in the end, botany is botany.


Im totally sick of using 5g of promix/perlite, then tossing it outside. i just flushed out some previously used mix, gonna reuse it. 



No, the malware thing was directly tied to this site, i know my puter as good as anything, and I know for a fact the infection tried to originate here. first two times, it got in a little bit, but i headed it off the next 2 times. then i stayed away for a few weeks.... it was really hard.... but i figured the admins would get shit patched up pretty quick.


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## homebrewer (Jun 28, 2012)

unohu69 said:


> I really switched to DG because it was so easy. some protekt, some grow. and bam, my plants straightened right out and did amazing. I owe that part to you.
> I could have so easily fallen into the AN trap, but now I know a hell of a lot more. and i dont think a plant really needs all that fancy shit, and they cant admire the pretty labels, so i dont think they really care where the nutes come from. I mostly stick with DG because its a complete nutrient product. I have looked, and theres only one or two others that can make that claim (with out buying 8 bottles of additives).


Exactly, I mix Protekt and a base into a gallon of RO and the ratio I use them at puts my pH in that perfect range. It couldn't be easier. With Botanicare, I was adding a little of this, a little of that, then would pH it, it was a pain as I mix up 1 gallon at a time because each of my promix girls has her own needs. 

In regards to '_all that fancy shit_' that snake-oil brands like AN market to us, that's for the newbs...seriously. If someone says they use AN, it's a safe bet that they are incapable of having an intelligent conversation about plant nutrition and how that relates to the salts and their ratios to one another. Instead, the conversation is about what bottles to use during which weeks . Does the monopotassium phosphate in your _Super Juicy Buds_ product differ from the monopotassium phosphate in your _Final_ _Bud Explosion _product? The answer would be 'no' so why does the company's feeding chart have them listed during different weeks? Money is one reason, the other reason is that they know their customer base isn't smart enough to question why.



> while i understand all plants require slightly different environments and nute considerations, in the end, botany is botany.


Environment is HUGE but salts are salts. If someone has a reasonably complete bottle of grow and bloom, that's all they'll ever need in the dirt. To that, I grow 100+ day sativas and 60 day indicas using the same basic principle; keep 'em green!



> Im totally sick of using 5g of promix/perlite, then tossing it outside. i just flushed out some previously used mix, gonna reuse it.


I use 3 gallons of promix, maybe give that a try unless you're growing 8 foot trees.


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## dickkhead (Jun 28, 2012)

matatan said:


> i never pass 1000ppm if i get heavy handed i just add fresh water. but when i switch to dynagro i will adapt your philosophy of 1-3-2, will i be ok going with DGs recommended hydro chart then adding fresh water to get ideal ppm range?
> do/can u recommend any specific brand of RO machine?
> 
> 
> pics??? thread??? id love to follow along and watch your ladies grow up.





homebrewer said:


> I switched from Botanicare to DG in the dirt not because DG was far superior, but because it was easier to use and at a very minimum, performed just as well. I also liked the fact that my hydro food could now be used in the dirt. I didn't love having my bottles of Pure Blend and GH plant foods run out at different times which means I had to make more trips to the hydro store.
> 
> The benefits of DynaGro are a little muted in promix. The fact that DG is pH-stable doesn't mean much when you're growing in the dirt. DG is highly concentrated but brands like ff and botanicare are reasonably priced too and when growing in the dirt, you're not using as much plant food as you do in hydro so the cost benefit is minimized as well. DG is also nice because you don't need to use boosters but then again, PK boosters in the dirt don't work as well as they do in hydro so the seasoned dirt grower probably wasn't using one to begin with.
> 
> ...


When you reuse your promix do u use an enzyme like cannazyme to rid it of dead root material? Think I might try this gets annoying lugging around bags of the stuff!! Let alone the mess it can make if I could minimize that I'd be happy


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## unohu69 (Jun 28, 2012)

I had been using 3g containers, my buddy uses 5g buckets, i recently upgraded my gro, so figured id try the 5g after i noticed how dense my roots are in a 3g container. basically jus looking for a little more yield, but i also have a little dialing in to do with my new setup. I really would like to hit 1-1.5g/watt. 

its pretty kool adding the protek, the grow, stickin the ph meter in and seeing 6.4.....
i add a little ph dwn for my hydros


speaking of trees, make sure you have an idea what a plant is gonna do in flower, my little 2' hawaiian snow, is now a 4' monster and not showing any signs of slowing down yet... theres a reason i grow indicas.....


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## homebrewer (Jun 28, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> When you reuse your promix do u use an enzyme like cannazyme to rid it of dead root material? Think I might try this gets annoying lugging around bags of the stuff!! Let alone the mess it can make if I could minimize that I'd be happy


No enzyme products here, I just knock the dirt off the roots and reuse the dirt. I don't think I'm going to push a batch of dirt more than two rounds but we'll see. Maybe there is a way to process the dirt (leaching, soaking, washing, or whatever) so that it can keep being used over and over. I'm all ears if someone has experimented. An important thing to note is that the dirt now has a mineral content to it so do not feed as frequently during its second use. Read the plant and you should be just fine.


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## PhWidow (Jun 29, 2012)

I had to get out of the shadow and say thank you for doing this test run HB. I've been tracking you since Dyna grow vs. GH
I first got into the scene about a year ago not knowing what Nute would be the best to use. I listen to my friend that got into the scene a year before I have and he said that AN was the best nute out there so I put my trust in him and spent about 1,500 in nutes. I thought that this was ridiculous, and my mission began to learn and understand how a plant work. On my search I've notice people using less nute than me and achieve really really nice harvest. Ever since my search that lead me to your thread on dyna vs. GH, AN. I've learn a good amount of information from you and thank you again. I did go out and get the dyna grow set that has been talked about in this thread and will be doing a comparison. I have some clones ready to be transplanted and will be doing a side by side comparison, but this comparison i will be using more than just conni. a and b, and will using big bug, overdrive, and more. i would like to see and show people how AN will do against the simplicity of the dyna gro feeding vs 7-10 different bottles of AN product. I will be doing these grow in 7gal. pot in 50/50 soil/coco.

and again thank you HB


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## Trichy Bastard (Jun 30, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I switched from Botanicare to DG in the dirt not because DG was far superior, but because it was easier to use and at a very minimum, performed just as well. I also liked the fact that my hydro food could now be used in the dirt. I didn't love having my bottles of Pure Blend and GH plant foods run out at different times which means I had to make more trips to the hydro store.
> 
> The benefits of DynaGro are a little muted in promix. The fact that DG is pH-stable doesn't mean much when you're growing in the dirt. DG is highly concentrated but brands like ff and botanicare are reasonably priced too and when growing in the dirt, you're not using as much plant food as you do in hydro so the cost benefit is minimized as well. DG is also nice because you don't need to use boosters but then again, PK boosters in the dirt don't work as well as they do in hydro so the seasoned dirt grower probably wasn't using one to begin with.
> 
> ...


I thought you used to advocate leaching the promix every once in a while if salts became evident- so have you improved your method so that it bacame unnessary, or am I just mistaken? I was using 5 gallon pots but am going to try the 3's since you seem to do fine with them and why waste soil or use more nutes/water than necessary? I tend to water just short of having any runoff because I was worried about soaking the medium too much, but if you say seeing some runoff out the bottom of the pots works for you then I will also try this as well. I flooded a pot with promix once as an experiment and it stayed wet for too many days imo, however the pot had smaller holes on the bottom and there was no plant in there to pull the water out along with the evaporation.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 2, 2012)

Sorry, but one more thing HB- have you found the need to supplement your SS #4 with extra dolomite lime, or does it contain enough right out of the bag in your opinion? I've seen quite a few people argue that adding an extra tablespoon or so per gallon helps keep the ph more stable all the way through the grow. I think peat gives off more and more acid as it breaks down, so I will assume each timeit is re-used it will become more acidic, but it's only connecting dots and I've opted to not reuse it myself and am not speaking from experience.


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## dickkhead (Jul 3, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Sorry, but one more thing HB- have you found the need to supplement your SS #4 with extra dolomite lime, or does it contain enough right out of the bag in your opinion? I've seen quite a few people argue that adding an extra tablespoon or so per gallon helps keep the ph more stable all the way through the grow. I think peat gives off more and more acid as it breaks down, so I will assume each timeit is re-used it will become more acidic, but it's only connecting dots and I've opted to not reuse it myself and am not speaking from experience.


Tb I find adding the lime at that rate makes a huge difference the ones I didn't add it to I had lockout mid flower 
I think it also adds in calcium mag which DG is missing


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## homebrewer (Jul 6, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> I thought you used to advocate leaching the promix every once in a while if salts became evident- so have you improved your method so that it bacame unnessary, or am I just mistaken? I was using 5 gallon pots but am going to try the 3's since you seem to do fine with them and why waste soil or use more nutes/water than necessary? I tend to water just short of having any runoff because I was worried about soaking the medium too much, but if you say seeing some runoff out the bottom of the pots works for you then I will also try this as well. I flooded a pot with promix once as an experiment and it stayed wet for too many days imo, however the pot had smaller holes on the bottom and there was no plant in there to pull the water out along with the evaporation.


I always water with 10-15% runoff which allows for there to be a constant flow of liquid through the medium. If you don't water to the point of runoff, all those salts from your plant food will remain in your medium. I don't leach my promix so much as I just make sure that there is no salt buildup. As you mentioned, promix stays wet too long if one attempts to 'flush' the salts out. 



> Sorry, but one more thing HB- have you found the need to supplement your SS #4 with extra dolomite lime, or does it contain enough right out of the bag in your opinion? I've seen quite a few people argue that adding an extra tablespoon or so per gallon helps keep the ph more stable all the way through the grow. I think peat gives off more and more acid as it breaks down, so I will assume each timeit is re-used it will become more acidic, but it's only connecting dots and I've opted to not reuse it myself and am not speaking from experience.


I used to add lime back when I was just starting out. I of course experimented to see if lime was actually needed and I found that I could do just fine without it. Back then I was using Botanicare and the 'no lime' practice carried over to DG just fine. On 'water days', I use calmag with RO which not only keeps the salt buildup low, but of course offers a better balance of salts than my tap water.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 6, 2012)

Great, thanks man. Reason I was asking is cuz I just got a new sack of ss#4 and both seedlings I've sprouted in it look deformed with twisted leaves. I have only added some perlite and am using pure r.o. water without ph'ing it. Not sure if I got a bad bag or what (perhaps I need to mix it better as I only pulled off the top), although I've not heard of that happening with promixes. Gonna check the ph and see what's up. Any thoughts on what might be the issue? This is the first time I've sprouted seeds in it as opposed to clones...


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## homebrewer (Jul 6, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Great, thanks man. Reason I was asking is cuz I just got a new sack of ss#4 and both seedlings I've sprouted in it look deformed with twisted leaves. I have only added some perlite and am using pure r.o. water without ph'ing it. Not sure if I got a bad bag or what (perhaps I need to mix it better as I only pulled off the top), although I've not heard of that happening with promixes. Gonna check the ph and see what's up. Any thoughts on what might be the issue? This is the first time I've sprouted seeds in it as opposed to clones...


Doesn't SS#4 have a starter nutrient mix in it? I can't imagine it's too strong as I really like the SS mixes. I wouldn't use straight RO water. Add like 1/2ml/gallon of grow formula just so there is some mineral content to that water.


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## Trichy Bastard (Jul 6, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Doesn't SS#4 have a starter nutrient mix in it? I can't imagine it's too strong as I really like the SS mixes. I wouldn't use straight RO water. Add like 1/2ml/gallon of grow formula just so there is some mineral content to that water.


 Well, that's the irony... The first seedling that deformed I was watering with .2 ec grow/protekt (ph 6.3) and so I thought perhaps there were starter nutes in the promix and it was too hot. This time I used pure r.o. and still have the same issue. I'll research further and let ya know what conclusion I come to. For what it's worth I have a hungarian blue poppy growing in it from seed without issue, so a part of me wonders if the seeds are tainted although this is just some freebie bagseed I was doing for fun- all the seeds should be fairly different from eachother I'd assume.


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## homebrewer (Jul 6, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Well, that's the irony... The first seedling that deformed I was watering with .2 ec grow/protekt (ph 6.3) and so I thought perhaps there were starter nutes in the promix and it was too hot. This time I used pure r.o. and still have the same issue. I'll research further and let ya know what conclusion I come to. For what it's worth I have a hungarian blue poppy growing in it from seed without issue, so a part of me wonders if the seeds are tainted although this is just some freebie bagseed I was doing for fun- all the seeds should be fairly different from eachother I'd assume.


The beans themselves were going to be my second thought. Sometimes you just get some funny growth patterns but those can be very interesting if you flower them out.


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## BudHound (Jul 12, 2012)

I've ready several of your journals. Good stuff which helped me start my own foundation from. Always inspirational listening and learning from some vet gurus. Thanks for all the vast knowledge you have provided us with, atleast to those whom have shown appreciation by following your threads with positive input and leaving aside criticism and neg comments. Afterall, we are all here to learn.


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## unclebobbyb (Jul 18, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> *Dyna-Gro vs Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur final writeup *
> 
> *** *Cliffs notes*: _I paid more for lower yields and more daily work_ ***
> 
> ...


HB, 

I have spent a few years reading what you do and how you go about accomplishing your goals. I have to say thank you, I hope you find joy and happiness in all that you do.


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## matatan (Aug 11, 2012)

homebrewer ur work is the reason i am using dynagro! 

*3ml protek
5ml gro
2 1/2ml bloom
6ml calmag+
ppm-700-750

*im just fed this to correct cal mag def, what do think? i explain it better in my thread * https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/547239-ace-spades-coco-sog.html#post7850571

*


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## homebrewer (Aug 12, 2012)

matatan said:


> homebrewer ur work is the reason i am using dynagro!
> 
> *3ml protek
> 5ml gro
> ...


That is a strong mix right there, way too strong given the size of your plants. Try 1/2 tsp of grow and protekt per gallon and read your plants ( I think that dosage is on the back of the DG bottles). You shouldn't need calmag but if you want to use it, 1-2mls/gallon more than enough.


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## matatan (Aug 12, 2012)

thats exactly what i was doing before. plus 1ml of bloom. 
calmag def on all but top right 2 plants most severe

which is why i decided to bump it up... 
my next planned watering will be on tuesday 200ppm of sweet raw, a sprinkle of great white(very light). a flush of some sort with some benes. on track?


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## homebrewer (Aug 12, 2012)

matatan said:


> thats exactly what i was doing before. plus 1ml of bloom.
> calmag def on all but top right 2 plants most severe
> View attachment 2292026
> which is why i decided to bump it up...
> my next planned watering will be on tuesday 200ppm of sweet raw, a sprinkle of great white(very light). a flush of some sort with some benes. on track?


I think you're working way too hard to keep those plants healthy. Unless your water source sucks, grow and protekt _will_ keep your plants healthy top-to-bottom. I have 18 month old mothers that are 7 feet tall being fed what I mentioned in the last post. Don't over analyze your plants, keep it simple and let them grow.


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## matatan (Aug 12, 2012)

water source is R/O water 13ppm 5.8ph. hydrologic stealth 200.
understood.


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## smokeweeda (Aug 15, 2012)

i'm running 

4ml protekt
5.5ml bloom
2.5ml molasses

and am getting 1.03 EC.. was really thinking of why i was using molasses, and couldn't justify it, should i just take out the molasses, and add bloom to bring it back up to 1 EC? my waters comming out at 90ppm on the .5 scale, is that low enough to cause concerns, as far as me not using mag-pro?


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## homebrewer (Aug 15, 2012)

smokeweeda said:


> i'm running
> 
> 4ml protekt
> 5.5ml bloom
> ...


Molasses isn't needed and depending on your medium, I'd add some grow formula in there. So maybe 2mls grow and 3.5mls bloom. If you need more N, try 4mls grow and 1.5mls bloom. Your protekt amount looks good. 

Your water is probably fine but it's not just about the EC, it's about the minerals making up that EC. My water is hard and unbalanced which is why I use RO. You're in much better shape so hopefully it's not too lopsided in any one mineral.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Aug 15, 2012)

The only downside to Pro Tekt is it sends my Ph CRAZY high


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## homebrewer (Aug 15, 2012)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> The only downside to Pro Tekt is it sends my Ph CRAZY high


Prokekt is about as alkaline as nutrients are acidic. You may add protekt to a gallon of water which could result in a pH of 10. Adding nutes (which usually are in the 3.0 - 4.0 range) will balance that pH out.


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## tenthirty (Aug 15, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Prokekt is about as alkaline as nutrients are acidic. You may add protekt to a gallon of water which could result in a pH of 10. Adding nutes (which usually are in the 3.0 - 4.0 range) will balance that pH out.


Might I add, that there is a little bit of skill involved in getting the pro-tekt just right. It has to be added first. but 4 mils sounds about right. Sometimes after I mix a rez, it will precip out some gypsum. Don't know why, 
I think it is because of using h2o2 as the last ingredient. If i wait a day and then add the h2o2, the rez is fresh and clear. 
This is using bomebrews basic method and recipe.


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## matatan (Aug 17, 2012)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> The only downside to Pro Tekt is it sends my Ph CRAZY high


i have barely used my ph down/up since i started using dynagro. its awesome, im used to using anywhere from 2-5ml(per gal) of ph down when i used gh and tap water.



homebrewer said:


> I think you're working way too hard to keep those plants healthy. Unless your water source sucks, grow and protekt _will_ keep your plants healthy top-to-bottom. I have 18 month old mothers that are 7 feet tall being fed what I mentioned in the last post. Don't over analyze your plants, keep it simple and let them grow.


ok my man. first signs of overfeeding. you was right on point! 
i dont think i was over analyzing my plants, i was just looking at them and saw cal mag deficiency. my reaction to that was to raise everything which was obviously the wrong thing to do in hindsight.. just a slight bump in calmag would have been appropriate while keeping gro n protekt steady at 3ml each.
still, plants look wonderful

question for ya, when do you start to add bloom? do you cut back on gro when you start the bloom?
my guess- when you start flower, gro @ 1-2ml for first 2 weeks of flower and bloom @5ml throughout? maybe 1-2ml more week 6ish?


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## BudHound (Aug 18, 2012)

HB - Have you ever experienced some sort od delay using Dyna in Hydro? For some reason its been a month and still see no bud formation for this stage of time. Some pistils are present, but no bud forming yet. I'm thinking to cut back on Grow 1m/gal since I see leaves good in green. My temp have been at mid 85 and humidity high 60. Just thought id ask you since you have more extensive knowledge in hydro. 

I use protek, magpro, grow, bloom, root excelurator, primordial sea of green, rootemenary, and hygrozume 
I keep everything at 5.8 PH, 1-1.2 EC and about 550-575ppm on a combo Hanna meter. I'm looking to cut out most products except the dyna and see what results I see in two weeks. Also use H202 for first two days once I switch resvoir mix to santize some of the equip. Any input would be appreciated.


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## GOLDBERG71 (Aug 18, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I think you're working way too hard to keep those plants healthy. Unless your water source sucks, grow and protekt _will_ keep your plants healthy top-to-bottom. I have 18 month old mothers that are 7 feet tall being fed what I mentioned in the last post. Don't over analyze your plants, keep it simple and let them grow.



First I'd like to thank you for the work you have put in HB. I've read a great deal of what you have wrote here and many other threads. With what I have gained from your input throughout the site it has helped me greatly. I'm on my second go around. The first was a test run of everything from start to finish. So I used the bagseeds I'd been saving for years. All of the problems that arose were environment related weather it was temp or humidity and I managed to correct them as they came up. So I was very happy with my harvest. I did have a consistency problem but that is to be expected with the genetics I used. Some plants had nice big thick nuggets with lots of trichs and others had small nuggets and were so heavy frosted it was amazing. I've solved the genetics issue I'm currently working with SS AK47, and super silver haze, medicine man and black widow all from mr. nice. What I am hoping you can help me with is fine tuning my nutes. To this point I'm strictly following 1 of the 3 schedules I've found online. The first go I decided to use the non recirculating hydro schedule but I was using a 50/50 mix of BX pro and perlite. It worked fine for me but I do realize that is a much higher ppm than the schedule for soil. I did have a few tips on the fan leaves towards the very end that showed a little burn but it was the tips only. So I'm following the same chart now with this grow. 

I've read so many of your post I can't remember where I read it but I believe you swap out a little bloom for a little grow during flower. I'm wondering if you can give me a little more detail as to what the ratio is that you use and why? Also I was wondering if you use anything else with the standard DG (grow, bloom, mag pro, and pro tekt)? Is there any other time when you add something other than those 4 products and if so which ones are they and what dosage do you use? I realize I have to experiment but I'm hoping your can save me some time and point me in the right direction.

THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOU POSTS. They have been very helpful to me and I can only assume others as well.


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## homebrewer (Aug 19, 2012)

matatan said:


> question for ya, when do you start to add bloom? do you cut back on gro when you start the bloom?
> my guess- when you start flower, gro @ 1-2ml for first 2 weeks of flower and bloom @5ml throughout? maybe 1-2ml more week 6ish?


Those numbers are high for my tastes. I feed more grow during flowering than I do bloom and feed at less than a tsp/gallon. Sometimes I give them a 50/50 shot of grow and bloom, but mostly it's just grow.



BudHound said:


> HB - Have you ever experienced some sort od delay using Dyna in Hydro? For some reason its been a month and still see no bud formation for this stage of time. Some pistils are present, but no bud forming yet. I'm thinking to cut back on Grow 1m/gal since I see leaves good in green. My temp have been at mid 85 and humidity high 60. Just thought id ask you since you have more extensive knowledge in hydro.
> 
> I use protek, magpro, grow, bloom, root excelurator, primordial sea of green, rootemenary, and hygrozume
> I keep everything at 5.8 PH, 1-1.2 EC and about 550-575ppm on a combo Hanna meter. I'm looking to cut out most products except the dyna and see what results I see in two weeks. Also use H202 for first two days once I switch resvoir mix to santize some of the equip. Any input would be appreciated.


I think you're using too many products but use whatever works for you. In regards to a 'flowering delay', I have not noticed anything like that. Strains flower for the same amount of time as always and budsets form as usual.


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## matatan (Aug 19, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I feed more grow during flowering than I do bloom and feed at less than a tsp/gallon. Sometimes I give them a 50/50 shot of grow and bloom, but mostly it's just grow.


copy. 4ml gro, 1-2ml bloom. 
i remember reading you use koolbloom, when do you add and how much? 
do you cut gro out at any point of flowering?
whats your thoughts of dry koolbloom? 

sorry for the barrage of questions man lol dont have much time, your a fucking genious, dont take things personal if i dont follow your advice lol i feel i need to get the feel of MY plants and to do that i need to know what they DONT like... n that means testing there limits and watching/reading/hypothesizing/learing from their reactions. RESPECT


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## Blaze23 (Aug 19, 2012)

Which one did better than the other? I skimmed through the thread and found no pics of the comparison or any final conclusion, maybe it was just bad luck? lol


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## homebrewer (Aug 19, 2012)

GOLDBERG71 said:


> I've read so many of your post I can't remember where I read it but I believe you swap out a little bloom for a little grow during flower. I'm wondering if you can give me a little more detail as to what the ratio is that you use and why? Also I was wondering if you use anything else with the standard DG (grow, bloom, mag pro, and pro tekt)? Is there any other time when you add something other than those 4 products and if so which ones are they and what dosage do you use? I realize I have to experiment but I'm hoping your can save me some time and point me in the right direction.
> 
> THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOU POSTS. They have been very helpful to me and I can only assume others as well.


I use both grow and bloom together in hydro but in promix, I mostly feed with grow. I go over a lot of that stuff in this thread. 



matatan said:


> copy. 4ml gro, 1-2ml bloom.
> i remember reading you use koolbloom, when do you add and how much?
> do you cut gro out at any point of flowering?
> whats your thoughts of dry koolbloom?
> ...


I don't use koolbloom with DG. Koolbloom dry is a lot like magpro actually, it's a good product when used correctly and I only used it in hydro. 



Blaze23 said:


> Which one did better than the other? I skimmed through the thread and found no pics of the comparison or any final conclusion, maybe it was just bad luck? lol


Skim harder?


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## GOLDBERG71 (Aug 21, 2012)

Can you explain how to calculate the new ratio when mixing 2 different products such as GROW and BLOOM. I see you prefer a 1-3-2 ratio and you state you achieve this by mixing these 2 formulas. Is this a 1 to 1 mixture? I know grow is 7-9-5 and bloom is 3-12-6 but it can't be as simple as adding them together and dividing by 2 is it? If so I can figure the correct mixture and it's obviously not 1 to 1.


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## homebrewer (Aug 21, 2012)

GOLDBERG71 said:


> Can you explain how to calculate the new ratio when mixing 2 different products such as GROW and BLOOM. I see you prefer a 1-3-2 ratio and you state you achieve this by mixing these 2 formulas. Is this a 1 to 1 mixture? I know grow is 7-9-5 and bloom is 3-12-6 but it can't be as simple as adding them together and dividing by 2 is it? If so I can figure the correct mixture and it's obviously not 1 to 1.


It is as simple as adding and then dividing, especially since grow and bloom are identical other than the NPK values. 

So I think if you do some quick math, you'll find that 80% bloom and 20% grow lands you around a 1-3-1.5. Add in some protekt and maybe you're closer to a 1-3-2? 

If you really want to get fancy, you could factor in the use of magpro as well which means you might go 2/3 bloom and 1/3 grow which puts you around 1-2.5-1.3. The addition of magpro and protekt probably gets you in the ballpark of 1-3-2 again. 

I like this ratio for hydro. Dirt/soil/promix is a different story.


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## GOLDBERG71 (Aug 21, 2012)

Do you have a preferred ratio for soil? Like I mentioned earlier I'm using 50/50 pro mix/perlite my thinking is this allows better drainage as well as more air in the medium. Making it in my mind half way hydro lol?! For some reason I like to be able to water each individual plant as it needs its as opposed to automated watering. I have trust issues with trusting timers. Thanks for the formula . . I didn't think it could be that simple although it does get more complicated not using equal proportions. You've convinced me I'm running hot. Even though I'm not seeing signs of it yet I'm worried I will soon. I'm closing in on week 4 and I have had a few yellow leaves recently all lower that were dry and brittle but I thought that was due to the heat from dehumidifier. Now I'm not so sure that really is the cause of the problem.


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## homebrewer (Aug 21, 2012)

GOLDBERG71 said:


> Do you have a preferred ratio for soil? Like I mentioned earlier I'm using 50/50 pro mix/perlite my thinking is this allows better drainage as well as more air in the medium. Making it in my mind half way hydro lol?! For some reason I like to be able to water each individual plant as it needs its as opposed to automated watering. I have trust issues with trusting timers. Thanks for the formula . . I didn't think it could be that simple although it does get more complicated not using equal proportions. You've convinced me I'm running hot. Even though I'm not seeing signs of it yet I'm worried I will soon. I'm closing in on week 4 and I have had a few yellow leaves recently all lower that were dry and brittle but I thought that was due to the heat from dehumidifier. Now I'm not so sure that really is the cause of the problem.


I either hit them with all grow or 50/50 grow/bloom in flower. If the plant needs to be more green, it gets grow. If it's green enough and done 'stretching', then I'll hit it with a grow/bloom mix. DG's 7-9-5 works very well for flower in promix.


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## GOLDBERG71 (Aug 21, 2012)

Awesome info HB. I just mixed a batch but I wasn't prepared to cut the bloom in half so I'm starting with a 2/3 1/3 ratio B to G . . Then I'll go from there . . . I'm down to 540 ppm as opposed to the 1350 I had going on the last 3 weeks. . . I just ordered a quart of floralicious plus I plan on incorporating in for the next cycle but that's as far as I think I will go. I'm not sure I'll receive it in time for it to do any good this time. I'm all about the KISS method so with the good results and the ease of use I've already stocked up on all 4 DG products. Bought them all bulk and saved some bucks. Since I've only used DG I can't comment on other brands but I can say with what I have read about maintaining PH of the others I doubt I ever will. As a beginner they sure have been easy to use and maintain. I have a 32 gallon res I use once I flip then and in the beginning it last longer and rarely has the PH moved more than 0.1 before it has been used. When I figure out the rep++ you'll be the first to get some from me!You have helped me more than you know already.


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## BudHound (Aug 22, 2012)

I'm now only using dyna products and ladies have begun to flower. I'm still waiting another 10 days and figure whether or not these Kessil magenta lights are contributing to the cause since its the first time running them. Definately going to K.I.S.S! Thnx


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## tenthirty (Aug 22, 2012)

HB,

Have you heard of veg & bloom by Hydroponic Research?
If so what do you think?

I've tried it for 3 sets of rez changes and the one thing I can say for sure, is with RO, I haven't had to adjust anything with the rez's.
I mean to say that this stuff comes out of the box at 5.7 to 5.8 PH every time. Run the EC up or down, PH stays really close.

The plants look pretty happy as well.


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## pshadey (Aug 22, 2012)

Hey HB thanks for all the knowledge I have learned from reading your journals. I have been reading through this thread looking for your most current feeding schedule. I have a copy of the one posted in the gh vs dynagro journal but in guessing you have a "more tweaked version" available. If you could just point me in the general area of this thread where I would find it I would. E really appreciate it. If not I'll just keep hunting. Thanks for all the knowledges you dropped upon me


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## homebrewer (Aug 22, 2012)

BudHound said:


> I'm now only using dyna products and ladies have begun to flower. I'm still waiting another 10 days and figure whether or not these Kessil magenta lights are contributing to the cause since its the first time running them. Definately going to K.I.S.S! Thnx


Do you think the 'slow to flower' issue could be traced back to your lights? 



tenthirty said:


> HB,
> 
> Have you heard of veg & bloom by Hydroponic Research?
> If so what do you think?
> ...


I thought the numbers looked a little high, maybe the calcium and sulfur numbers if I remember correctly? But overall, people seem to be having some good results with it and it's cheap and easy too! I'm all for that! 



pshadey said:


> Hey HB thanks for all the knowledge I have learned from reading your journals. I have been reading through this thread looking for your most current feeding schedule. I have a copy of the one posted in the gh vs dynagro journal but in guessing you have a "more tweaked version" available. If you could just point me in the general area of this thread where I would find it I would. E really appreciate it. If not I'll just keep hunting. Thanks for all the knowledges you dropped upon me


In hydro, I feed at around 1.1 EC for flower. 80% of that is base, 15% is magpro and 5% is silica. I use floralicious only in hydro. That's it really.


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## pshadey (Aug 22, 2012)

Awesome thank you! I'm also doing hydro, I'm not currently using RO should I still be using mag pro, My starting ppm is around 250.


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## homebrewer (Aug 22, 2012)

pshadey said:


> Awesome thank you! I'm also doing hydro, I'm not currently using RO should I still be using mag pro, My starting ppm is around 250.


I'd use RO if I were you. If you're not using RO, you may not need the extra magnesium from magpro. Tough to say unless you have a city water report.


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## matatan (Aug 23, 2012)

hey HB when you did that run with Great White did you try it out on clones? unrooted clones that is. according to the bottle it says to dip cutting in rooting compound then sprinkle some great white on the dipped cutting then stick in RW or aero cloner or whatever.
also read about people using it in the res of an aerocloner by itself for the first week.
so many ways not sure which is correct or if there all wrong...


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## homebrewer (Aug 23, 2012)

matatan said:


> hey HB when you did that run with Great White did you try it out on clones? unrooted clones that is. according to the bottle it says to dip cutting in rooting compound then sprinkle some great white on the dipped cutting then stick in RW or aero cloner or whatever.
> also read about people using it in the res of an aerocloner by itself for the first week.
> so many ways not sure which is correct or if there all wrong...


Nah, never needed to test it out like that. I use clonex and KLN and haven't lost a cutting in _years_.


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## supdro (Aug 24, 2012)

Hey hb.ive followed all ur threads and they are great. Im on the same regimen and was wanting to know if I should use budswell bat guano? my hydro store guy has awesome buds and swears by this.would this be the same as floralicious plus?


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## homebrewer (Aug 26, 2012)

supdro said:


> Hey hb.ive followed all ur threads and they are great. Im on the same regimen and was wanting to know if I should use budswell bat guano? my hydro store guy has awesome buds and swears by this.would this be the same as floralicious plus?


They're not the same type of product though if budswell is ok for hydro use, it may have a positive affect on flavor.


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## maphisto (Aug 26, 2012)

My buddy swears by it also!! if ya give it a go let us know..


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## Trichy Bastard (Aug 27, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> They're not the same type of product though if budswell is ok for hydro use, it may have a positive affect on flavor.


Budswel is like a bat guano tea. It's good stuff in the right environment- I've used before in organic gardening, but it made a mess of my hydro res- think putting shitwater in your res- I like my hydro clean and clear, but that's just my personal preference.


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## BudHound (Aug 31, 2012)

Regarding the "slow to flower" its possible that the Kessil lights could have been the contribution for delay in flower. I did have issues all in August with heat, humidity, airflow, powder mildew and not to mention all the cocktail mix I was mixing. I'm now seeing flower buds, but if I were to compare with my HPS lights the bud formation is way btr. Ill be posting pics of them. I was adding 4ml/gal of bloom before and upped on it to 6ml bloom, 1/2ml of grow, 4ml Protek, want to say 2-4ml of Magpro. Took your wise advice and cut back on all other additives used. Like you said read your plants and its what I have been doing. Your feeding schedule was changed bc of strain and growing conditions.
I just bought a 1k hortilux and instead going to be switching most my led batches to hps, can't afford to have a shitty crop with all the labor time invested. Plus taking a 6-10 month break of growing for moving reasons so def not looking to harvest low quality nugs. Once back in I plan to get back using your method of Sunshine #4 and Dyna. No one can go wrong with the nutrients on how effective they are and economical price! 

In regards to the Kessils they are good, but wouldn't bet on producing much! Stealth Grow a diff story! Didn't meant to get off topic here. Thnx for the info man. Keep up the good work!


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## homebrewer (Aug 31, 2012)

BudHound said:


> Regarding the "slow to flower" its possible that the Kessil lights could have been the contribution for delay in flower. *I did have issues all in August with heat, humidity, airflow, powder mildew and not to mention all the cocktail mix I was mixing*. I'm now seeing flower buds, but if I were to compare with my HPS lights the bud formation is way btr. Ill be posting pics of them. I was adding 4ml/gal of bloom before and upped on it to 6ml bloom, 1/2ml of grow, 4ml Protek, want to say 2-4ml of Magpro. Took your wise advice and cut back on all other additives used. Like you said read your plants and its what I have been doing. Your feeding schedule was changed bc of strain and growing conditions.
> I just bought a 1k hortilux and instead going to be switching most my led batches to hps, can't afford to have a shitty crop with all the labor time invested. Plus taking a 6-10 month break of growing for moving reasons so def not looking to harvest low quality nugs. Once back in I plan to get back using your method of Sunshine #4 and Dyna. No one can go wrong with the nutrients on how effective they are and economical price!
> 
> In regards to the Kessils they are good, but wouldn't bet on producing much! Stealth Grow a diff story! Didn't meant to get off topic here. Thnx for the info man. Keep up the good work!


A proper environment is paramount and is probably _the_ single most important factor in indoor growing. Once your environment is stable, you can then start making tweaks here and there with your feeding schedule. In the meantime, read your plants and try to minimize the environmental stresses.


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## BudHound (Sep 2, 2012)

Most definately agree! Aug is always a challenge for controlling environment. All months out of the year temp stays between 72f-79f and buds bloom to there fullest and I get good reaps.


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## sparnicus (Sep 16, 2012)

HB, I hope you're still keeping an eye on this thread. I'm completely at my wit's end. I started using DG when I popped these two girls, but I just cannot seem to get it right. I'm using 100% perlite hempys, and PH is fine. Temps stay below 75, and I am feeding with every watering at 1/2 tsp grow, 1/2 tsp protekt. I feel like I have been extremely conservative with nutes, but then I get burnt tips. So I back off, and then I get yellowing leaves. I'm about to pull my hair out. Now I'm getting a droop on both plants, as you can see below. Any help would be amazing.


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## homebrewer (Sep 16, 2012)

sparnicus said:


> HB, I hope you're still keeping an eye on this thread. I'm completely at my wit's end. I started using DG when I popped these two girls, but I just cannot seem to get it right. I'm using 100% perlite hempys, and PH is fine. Temps stay below 75, and I am feeding with every watering at 1/2 tsp grow, 1/2 tsp protekt. I feel like I have been extremely conservative with nutes, but then I get burnt tips. So I back off, and then I get yellowing leaves. I'm about to pull my hair out. Now I'm getting a droop on both plants, as you can see below. Any help would be amazing.
> 
> View attachment 2337022



Droopy leaves usually means some kind of moisture stress (too wet or too dry). I don't necessarily see burning but I do see that you should probably increase the amount of plant food you're feeding. Lower leaves that are yellowing means you need more nitrogen. Hit them with 1 tsp/gallon grow formula and enough protekt to balance that pH. But first, leach your medium with maybe a gallon of tap water just to be safe. You do have some unhealthy lower leaves which to me look like you're letting your medium dry out too much, concentrating the salt content, and creating a scenario where your lower leaves appear to be showing signs that your medium has some excessive salt buildup. 

Of course I can only guess what's going on with your plants. If they were mine, i'd be testing the pH and EC of my run-off water. I'd make sure I'm watering them enough, and I probably wouldn't be growing in perlite unless I has some kind of automated drip feeding system. Keep us posted.


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## sparnicus (Sep 16, 2012)

It's a hempy bucket. The water falls into a reservoir at the bottom, so I should really never have an overwatering issue. And presumably, I shouldn't be having PH issues.
Here is the pot I use, so I am able to see when it dries up:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstays-5.2-Self-Watering-Planter/16630836

I just flushed them, in case of salt buildup. I feel like something is locking me out, because the tips keep crisping and growth has slowed down. They're about a week in 12/12. Sorry the pictures are so bad (my camera is a lo-tech phone).


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## homebrewer (Sep 16, 2012)

How much experience do you have with your perlite-only growing method?


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## sparnicus (Sep 16, 2012)

To be honest, I picked it up to avoid the PH issues associated with soil and have had trouble with it all along the way. I've changed out nutes three times assuming that was the problem. I have a good lamp, lots of circulation, and I check on 'em every single night. I've seen people use mediums such as powdered rockwool and pro-mix. I just can't seem to get it right, though it seems like it should be so simple. Maybe I should go back to dirt.


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## homebrewer (Sep 16, 2012)

sparnicus said:


> To be honest, I picked it up to avoid the PH issues associated with soil and have had trouble with it all along the way. I've changed out nutes three times assuming that was the problem. I have a good lamp, lots of circulation, and I check on 'em every single night. I've seen people use mediums such as powdered rockwool and pro-mix. I just can't seem to get it right, though it seems like it should be so simple. Maybe I should go back to dirt.


Promix would be my suggestion. I don't have pH issues and in fact, I recycle my promix up to three times with no problems at all. 

In regards to your unhealthy leaves, I'd point to your process (perlite hempy), not the plant food. Moving forward, this is what I'd do if those were my plants. I'd rip off the 'dish' on the bottoms of those posts or drill holes in the bottom of them and I'd run them like 'drain to waste'. Feed at close to 1 tsp/gallon grow and protekt and I'd imagine you'd need to water nearly every day.


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## sparnicus (Sep 16, 2012)

Would you say the pro-mix would trump soil for simplicity? I think there's a little hydro shop in town I could check out.

Also, which pro-mix product specifically?


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## homebrewer (Sep 16, 2012)

sparnicus said:


> Would you say the pro-mix would trump soil for simplicity? I think there's a little hydro shop in town I could check out.


I used to grow in 'soil' and I find promix to be a lot easier and a lot more consistent. I mix promix up with some vermiculite and I'm ready to go. I like Promix because it's a blank slate. 



> Also, which pro-mix product specifically?


Promix BX.


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## inhaleindica (Sep 17, 2012)

You don't even use perlite with your Promix? I have use sunshine mix 4 and they seem to retain water too long without the perlite. I can't imagine vermiculite will help in that area? Since vermiculite holds moisture. Please clearify that for me.

I have used full perlite Hempy bucket. Yes, I agree with you the drain to waste system with drippers would be better for that type of medium. Hempy does work but yields small compared to my soil grow.


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## homebrewer (Sep 17, 2012)

inhaleindica said:


> You don't even use perlite with your Promix? I have use sunshine mix 4 and they seem to retain water too long without the perlite. I can't imagine vermiculite will help in that area? Since vermiculite holds moisture. Please clearify that for me.


Promix already comes with a little perlite in there but when I used to add some, it would just slowly rise to the surface of the medium by the end of the grow which doesn't help with drainage or aeration.

For me, promix alone dries out unevenly, it 'pulls away' from the sides of my pots as it dries and it didn't seem to hold water all that well or prevent water from pouring out of the bottom of my pots when watering. Vermiculite evens out the texture of the medium, helps retain water a little better and fixes any and all complaints I had with 'only promix'. The addition of vermiculite is a carry-over from when I was trying to grow like BOG about 10 years ago.


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## sparnicus (Sep 17, 2012)

I just called the shop in town and they say they have 1 bale of Pro-Mix HP left for $51. Is that on point? Seems pretty pricey. You said it was reusable?


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## homebrewer (Sep 17, 2012)

sparnicus said:


> I just called the shop in town and they say they have 1 bale of Pro-Mix HP left for $51. Is that on point? Seems pretty pricey. You said it was reusable?


If you have a big garden center in your area, call them. They'll often times have it for <$40.


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## sparnicus (Sep 17, 2012)

That place was like a friggin candy store. I can't believe it's been there only 4 minutes away and I've never been! I only have the 2 girls, so judging by how heavy it is, this thing should last me quite a while!


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## homebrewer (Sep 17, 2012)

sparnicus said:


> That place was like a friggin candy store. I can't believe it's been there only 4 minutes away and I've never been! I only have the 2 girls, so judging by how heavy it is, this thing should last me quite a while!


Keep that bag closed when you're not using it. When promix dries out, it's dusty and hard to work with. I think you'll find it easier to use than 'perlite-only'.


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## inhaleindica (Sep 17, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Promix already comes with a little perlite in there but when I used to add some, it would just slowly rise to the surface of the medium by the end of the grow which doesn't help with drainage or aeration.
> 
> For me, promix alone dries out unevenly, it 'pulls away' from the sides of my pots as it dries and it didn't seem to hold water all that well or prevent water from pouring out of the bottom of my pots when watering. Vermiculite evens out the texture of the medium, helps retain water a little better and fixes any and all complaints I had with 'only promix'. The addition of vermiculite is a carry-over from when I was trying to grow like BOG about 10 years ago.


That does make sense to me. What ratio do you put in your vermiculite? 1 part vermiculite to 3 parts Pro-mix?


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## sparnicus (Sep 17, 2012)

Alright HB. All locked and loaded. If this works out I'll have to send you some scotch or something. Or do you brew that as well?


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## homebrewer (Sep 17, 2012)

inhaleindica said:


> That does make sense to me. What ratio do you put in your vermiculite? 1 part vermiculite to 3 parts Pro-mix?


Vermiculite comes in 3 different 'sizes' so if I'm using the 'course' stuff, I might use a little more than if I was using the 'fine' stuff. 30-50% is a ballpark figure. Maybe start with 30% and see how you like that texture.


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## inhaleindica (Sep 18, 2012)

I am going to try that with my strawberry diesels that I am picking up in a few weeks. Thanks!


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## KingIV20 (Sep 18, 2012)

Homebrew are you planning on running any more experiments with another journal anytime soon? If so, what do you have brewing? (pun definitely intended)


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## homebrewer (Sep 18, 2012)

KingIV20 said:


> Homebrew are you planning on running any more experiments with another journal anytime soon? If so, what do you have brewing? (pun definitely intended)


Actually I do have a journal planned to begin in the next week. There is a breeder who has caught my eye named Classic and he works under the label 'Classic Seeds'. From what I understand, he's an older guy who has been collecting some of the best strains from around the world for the last 30 years and then working them and crossing them as he sees fit. I really like his values, I like his prices, and he's been working with some outstanding strains. 

Starting in the next week or so, I'll be journaling the *(Thai x Columbian Gold) x Romulan x C99* cross that I have. I've already started the grow, I'm just waiting for my new computer to arrive as this one is on the fritz.


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## KingIV20 (Sep 18, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Actually I do have a journal planned to begin in the next week. There is a breeder who has caught my eye named Classic and he works under the label 'Classic Seeds'. From what I understand, he's an older guy who has been collecting some of the best strains from around the world for the last 30 years and then working them and crossing them as he sees fit. I really like his values, I like his prices, and he's been working with some outstanding strains.
> 
> Starting in the next week or so, I'll be journaling the *(Thai x Columbian Gold) x Romulan x C99* cross that I have. I've already started the grow, I'm just waiting for my new computer to arrive as this one is on the fritz.


Outstanding! That's quite the genetic cross, if I do say so myself. I look forward to watching them bloom. 
That's a great find (referring to Classic) as that's the type of person I'd want to work with and get genetics from.


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## |B3RNY| (Sep 18, 2012)

Homebrewer,
If you don't mind me asking- what were some of the characteristics of Serious' Ak47 that you noticed/liked the most? ..And how far does the sativa-pheno lean towards the sativa side, in your opinion (percent wise)? Thanks in advance & +Rep for any reply.


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## homebrewer (Sep 18, 2012)

KingIV20 said:


> Outstanding! That's quite the genetic cross, if I do say so myself. I look forward to watching them bloom.
> That's a great find (referring to Classic) as that's the type of person I'd want to work with and get genetics from.


You can check out his other offerings at seed depot or seedboutique. I think SD has a better selection at the moment (https://www.seeddepot.nl/cannabis-seeds/classic-seeds.html). 




|B3RNY| said:


> Homebrewer,
> If you don't mind me asking- what were some of the characteristics of Serious' Ak47 that you noticed/liked the most? ..And how far does the sativa-pheno lean towards the sativa side, in your opinion (percent wise)? Thanks in advance & +Rep for any reply.


I'm big on aroma and this AK47 has a _very_ nice aroma (mango/citrus/ginger/bread). As a plant, it likes to branch and fills in pretty heavily with calyxy flowers that are easy to trim. As far as the buzz goes, mine is probably a 65/35 sativa-indica split as one hit keeps you up but a few more and she'll drag you down with a kind of stoney, intense, happy buzz. Not nearly as motivating and clear as kali mist but you could get things done around the house blasted on Ak47, though with it's stoney component, you might find yourself spacing out and getting distracted easily. Where Kali would have you scrubbing the kitchen floors and running errands while being thankful at your many blessings in life, my dumpster strain would have you on the couch watching tv. Those three strains pretty much cover all the bases for me. 

Medicinally Ak would be good for pain, sleep, stress, headaches, etc.


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## sparnicus (Sep 20, 2012)

I'm getting a runoff PH of around 6-6.5. Is that the range I want to be in?


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## homebrewer (Sep 20, 2012)

sparnicus said:


> I'm getting a runoff PH of around 6-6.5. Is that the range I want to be in?


I'd be very happy with that range. I'd also take a TDS measurement.


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## sparnicus (Sep 20, 2012)

My tap is 7, and with 5ml of grow/pro-tekt they seem to stay at the same "color" on the scale. I only have a chemical drop test.


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## munchies7 (Sep 23, 2012)

Ur plants look amazing!!! Very nice run to compare results, so i got convinced by Dyna gro, currently using botanicare
Groom , karma, bloom, purple maxxx, bud candy, super thrive and from.canna pk13-14, boost and rhizotonic, what do u suggest me to change if i go for dyna "A-B" or what other supplements should i add or remove in ur expirience. Also km growing in soil but intend at least 1 plant on dwc for my next grow.


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## homebrewer (Sep 23, 2012)

munchies7 said:


> Ur plants look amazing!!! Very nice run to compare results, so i got convinced by Dyna gro, currently using botanicare
> Groom , karma, bloom, purple maxxx, bud candy, super thrive and from.canna pk13-14, boost and rhizotonic, what do u suggest me to change if i go for dyna "A-B" or what other supplements should i add or remove in ur expirience. Also km growing in soil but intend at least 1 plant on dwc for my next grow.


The good news is that you can throw all that stuff away . Since you'll be in dirt/dwc, I'd recommend grow (7-9-5), bloom (3-12-6) and protekt. Magpro helps if you're using RO and need some additional magnesium in _hydro_. 

In dirt, grow and protekt from seed to harvest is pretty much all you need. A shot of bloom here and there or a 50/50 mix of grow/bloom can be beneficial but 80% of the time you should be keeping those plants green with 'grow'.

Grow and bloom covers all your elemental needs. A PK booster is not needed. You could keep the karma around I suppose but I never found it to be very beneficial in the dirt and it was too dirty for hydro.

I used botanicare Pure Blend for years in the dirt. DG is great in hydro, that's why I'm a huge DG fan. In the dirt, it works too which is why I dropped pure blend. It's nice that the one plant food meets all _my_ needs. What I'm trying to say is that it may not be worth switching to DG if you mainly grow in the dirt. You don't need 'pH stability'. You shouldn't be using that much plant food to begin with so cost shouldn't be an issue if you dropped all that sh*t you don't need anyway. DG will work great in the dirt but the benefits are a little muted as compared to hydro. IMO, DynaGro makes the best hydroponic plant food on the market. In the dirt, they are a great choice but there are also other easy and affordable choices out there too. If you're loving your results right now, skip DG.


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## munchies7 (Sep 23, 2012)

Thanks for all the tips mate really helpful, i def changing to DWC coz soil in my country sucks, so ima check those dg nutes, also does bubbleponic 5gal systems make much noise? I mean the bubbles. Or if i close the door i wont be abble to listen any bubble


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## Don Draper (Sep 30, 2012)

Homebrewer, I'd like to start a grow in coco, I don't have a RO-system and don't need one(got very clean tapwater), I'd like to use the Dyna-Gro line, which products would you recommend in coco?


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## homebrewer (Sep 30, 2012)

Don Draper said:


> Homebrewer, I'd like to start a grow in coco, I don't have a RO-system and don't need one(got very clean tapwater), I'd like to use the Dyna-Gro line, which products would you recommend in coco?


Grow, protekt, and bloom are all you need. It's always nice to have some calmag on hand too for 'water' days in case your water is too clean.


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## Don Draper (Sep 30, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Grow, protekt, and bloom are all you need. It's always nice to have some calmag on hand too for 'water' days in case your water is too clean.


 Thank you! I was considering their Mag Pro also, do you use it? Why would anyone use it, does it help the plant produce bigger buds, more flowers..in short what are the benefits(if any)?
Dyna-Gro also have two products called K-L-N and Neem Oil, are they worth buying or would you consider them redundant?


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## homebrewer (Sep 30, 2012)

Don Draper said:


> Thank you! I was considering their Mag Pro also, do you use it? Why would anyone use it, does it help the plant produce bigger buds, more flowers..in short what are the benefits(if any)?


Magpro is their 'RO water add-back'. It supplies additional magnesium and also has a 'booster-like' NPK content. I use it in hydro but have not found a need for it in promix. I don't think it would help too much in terms of yield, though it could, as DG's bloom is already supplying plenty of phosphorus. I used it in my H&G Aqua Flakes test grow as a 'booster' and to add some magnesium. It matched up very well with AF. 



> Dyna-Gro also have two products called K-L-N and Neem Oil, are they worth buying or would you consider them redundant?


KLN is their rooting hormone. I use it at cloning time. Neem oil is for unwanted critters.


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## KingIV20 (Sep 30, 2012)

Don Draper said:


> Thank you! I was considering their Mag Pro also, do you use it? Why would anyone use it, does it help the plant produce bigger buds, more flowers..in short what are the benefits(if any)?
> Dyna-Gro also have two products called K-L-N and Neem Oil, are they worth buying or would you consider them redundant?


Yeah, Neem oil is a topical, foliage spray that coats the leaves with like a latex-y cover so that spider mites and the like can't get around on it. Neem is also good for creating an environment on the leaf that doesn't allow molds like powder mold to flourish. 

It shouldn't be considered as part of a feeding schedule - but as prevention, or defense.

And as for rooting hormone I've always used Olivia's brand with great success!


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## edgar1916 (Oct 12, 2012)

Inorganic Contaminants
Runoff from orchards and glass
or electronics production wastes.
Arsenic ppm 0-9.8 NO 2011 Erosion of natural deposits.
Erosion of natural deposits.
Water additive to promote
Fluoride ppm 1.38-1.38 NO 2011 strong teeth.
Runoff from fertilizer use.
Leaching from septic tanks.
Nitrate ppm 0-0.99 NO 2011 Erosion of natural deposits.
Infants below the age of six months who drink water containing nitrate in excess of the MCL could become seriously ill
and, if untreated, may die. Symptoms include shortness of breath and blue-baby syndrome.
Volitile Organic Contaminants
Disharges from petroleum
Xylenes ppb 0-.00055 NO 2011 or chemical factories.
Disinfectants
High Level Water additive used to
Total Chlorine ppm .5-.8 NO 2011 control microbes


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## edgar1916 (Oct 12, 2012)

Is this water good quality for ppm without using r/o??


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## homebrewer (Oct 12, 2012)

edgar1916 said:


> Is this water good quality for ppm without using r/o??


That's the wrong report. You're looking for the one that talks about total hardness and your mineral content (calcium, magnesium, chloride, etc.).


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## Trichy Bastard (Oct 12, 2012)

edgar1916 said:


> Inorganic Contaminants
> Runoff from orchards and glass
> or electronics production wastes.
> Arsenic ppm 0-9.8 NO 2011 Erosion of natural deposits.
> ...


however, based on this report- I'd really consider using a r.o. filter for drinking water, you seem to be in an area with some industrial crud in the water tables. No blue babies ya hear...?


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## edgar1916 (Oct 13, 2012)

i couldnt find any other report but, i think ill just go with a filter to keep it safe...are brita filters any good?


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## homebrewer (Oct 13, 2012)

edgar1916 said:


> i couldnt find any other report but, i think ill just go with a filter to keep it safe...are brita filters any good?


Call your city's division of water and ask to speak with someone who can give you the elemental breakdown of your water. Tell them you're a homebrewer . 

You can also have your water analyized by companies such as ward labs: http://www.wardlab.com/FeeSchedule/WaterAnalysis.aspx


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## Trichy Bastard (Oct 13, 2012)

edgar1916 said:


> i couldnt find any other report but, i think ill just go with a filter to keep it safe...are brita filters any good?


Reverse Osmosis is really good and probably your best and most economical choice in the end. The Brita filters have carbon and do take out some toxins and chlorine, however what's best is the R.O. as it removes nearly everything including the minerals so you can start with a clean slate and know exactly what you are feeding with when you add your nutes. The R.O. will also ensure all the industrial crap and pharmaceuticals are removed too for personal peace of mind for your own health...  Seriously, they're like $120 at Costco and can be installed with simple tools in about an hour, or hire a plumber for another hundred... If you buy bottled water it will pay for itself within a few months anyway... It's like having the best bottled water on tap constantly right at your faucet, actually even better as it's not stored in the plasic bottles- if you're paranoid about that kind of stuff.


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## edgar1916 (Oct 13, 2012)

thanks guys! your info has really helped me!..i will give my water company a call and if the water is no good ... ill def. go with r/o.


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## bigsmoove1 (Oct 23, 2012)

Hb message me please I have some dyna questions. Long time user looking to dial it in. I haven't posted enough to start a pm.


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## homebrewer (Oct 23, 2012)

bigsmoove1 said:


> Hb message me please I have some dyna questions. Long time user looking to dial it in. I haven't posted enough to start a pm.


I don't think you can send or receive messages at this point. If you have a question, ask it here .


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## Lucius Vorenus (Oct 23, 2012)

Switched to a 1 part powder Veg+Bloom by Hydro Research. So far im liking it as much as the Dynagrow and the Lucas Formula as well. Super easy and buffers to 6.3. Plants very happy and frosty.


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## bigsmoove1 (Oct 24, 2012)

I haves used dyna gro 7-9-5 for many years start to finish, been trying other stuff the last few years. To make a long story short it was a waste of time nothing is better. From rooted clone to finish I used 7-9-5 10ml per gallon. I recently Went out and purchased the mag pro, the bloom, more grow and the pro tek and floralicious plus. Seems like you have the recipe dialed in from all I read. Can you share your recipe from established clone to finish. Also do you introduce the floralicious plus from the starter later in game.


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## homebrewer (Oct 24, 2012)

bigsmoove1 said:


> I haves used dyna gro 7-9-5 for many years start to finish, been trying other stuff the last few years. To make a long story short it was a waste of time nothing is better. From rooted clone to finish I used 7-9-5 10ml per gallon. I recently Went out and purchased the mag pro, the bloom, more grow and the pro tek and floralicious plus. Seems like you have the recipe dialed in from all I read. Can you share your recipe from established clone to finish. Also do you introduce the floralicious plus from the starter later in game.


I don't really have a set 'recipe', especially for dirt. I'm sure I've gone over where I feed my hydro girls during veg and flower. In the dirt, here are my thoughts:



> Grow, Bloom and Protekt is all you need. In Promix, I havent found much use for Magpro as it is pretty strong stuff and _IMO_ is meant for hydroponic growing when using RO.
> 
> When you use Protekt and one of their bases in roughly equal amounts, your pH should land in the low 6s but this is dependent on your water source. Odds are youll need slightly less protect than base. Find the ratio that works best for your water.
> 
> ...


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## bigsmoove1 (Oct 25, 2012)

Sorry I'm all hydro bro and city water. The ppm of my city water is only 90-110 so not bad


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## homebrewer (Oct 25, 2012)

bigsmoove1 said:


> Sorry I'm all hydro bro and city water. The ppm of my city water is only 90-110 so not bad


Take a look at this thread, I think it'll answer all your questions and then some.


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## bigsmoove1 (Oct 25, 2012)

Been trying to find ur recipe in it and if you use floralicious plus from the start of veg all the way thru flower. I've read a few threads and see a few different things. But u must have a final after all your tweaking


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## homebrewer (Oct 25, 2012)

bigsmoove1 said:


> Been trying to find ur recipe in it and if you use floralicious plus from the start of veg all the way thru flower. I've read a few threads and see a few different things. But u must have a final after all your tweaking


I use FLP only during flowering.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Oct 30, 2012)

Could a person just run grow straight through and then just add mag pro instead of bloom as needed?


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## homebrewer (Oct 30, 2012)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Could a person just run grow straight through and then just add mag pro instead of bloom as needed?


In hydro, I think bloom is your ticket to better yields than just using grow + magpro. I tried a 'no bloom' grow and around day 30, I could tell things were smaller than they should be. Basically, I chickened out because it looked like my yields were going to suffer. In my defense though, I was growing a strain that I'm not all that familiar with yield-wise with a different reflector so while 'no bloom' would have worked, I didn't have much to compare it to.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Oct 30, 2012)

Makes sense. The more i look at it it probably isnt a good idea.


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## |B3RNY| (Nov 1, 2012)

I have recently been using Dyna-Gro & I have fallen completely in love with everything they have, that I've tried (Grow, Bloom, Mag-Pro + Pro-Tekt.) If you were going to buy bulk nutrients then I think you could get by with a gallon(s) of Grow & a smaller supply of Bloom; like 1/2 gallon(s), etc. Like HB said, the only problem at all with DG nutrients is that the Bloom does not contain enough Nitrogen to keep a plant green/healthy throughout flowering... but then again- neither does anybody else's bloom/flower formulas IMO. Almost any brand of nutrient will work, assuming the pH is 'correct' and the NPK is at desirable levels relative to each other. DG is awesome; almost idiot proof, just add a bit of the Grow into flowering solutions. I favor DG, no question, over any Advanced nutrients product anymore (though I've encountered great results with their "Jungle Juice" formula (and it's a copy of GH's 3 part nutrient, so I assume that GH would also produce acceptable results.))
HomeBrewer- I use tapwater myself but I was just curious, have you/do you know if anyone has experienced calcium deficiency problems with Dyna Gro stuff?


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## homebrewer (Nov 1, 2012)

|B3RNY| said:


> HomeBrewer- I use tapwater myself but I was just curious, have you/do you know if anyone has experienced calcium deficiency problems with Dyna Gro stuff?


I've never experienced a calcium deficiency and in all likelihood, it's your tap water that's probably causing an issue if you think you're seeing a 'calcium deficiency'. My tap water is pretty hard and causes issues when fed to my plants over the course of a couple weeks (yellow, rust-spotted lower leaves). I once thought 'calcium deficiency' when using Botanicare's PureBlend when really the culprit was my unbalanced water. Do you know the mineral content or of yours? EC/ppm?


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## hornedfrog2000 (Nov 1, 2012)

I seem to get bad cal mag issues. I might swap my mag pro for cal mapg plus. I assume its chalked up to the tap water. Maybe i should get a ro filter so i know exactly what is going on...


Edit

It could be some sort of toxicity issue though like hb says. Thanks for helping people hb.


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## homebrewer (Nov 1, 2012)

What EC are your plants being fed at and how much magpro are you using?


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## ^Slanty (Nov 1, 2012)

AN products work just fine as well. You just need to be able to read your plants and use the arsenal of products at hand to deal with "YOUR" setup! Don't get me wrong, as there are products that may be superior to AN, and I will not debate that here. The fact that a nutrient company can pull the wool over they eyes of many to make a buck due to advertisement is fine in my world. Suits the individuals right if they can't take the time to figure out what they need. AN does have some products that work; don't get me wrong. They also have a lot of crap. 

All I can say is, I hope people take the time to sort through all the crap and learn how to grow before they read such comparisons and make up their minds of what they think works. Would waste a lot less time. 

What works: Is what works for them! Experience is priceless!! Just because something works for one, does not mean it works for another. Displayed time and time again on these boards! 

Putting time in is what makes a true grower. Nutes are a small part of it. 

True TLC is HUGE!


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## homebrewer (Nov 2, 2012)

^Slanty said:


> AN products work just fine as well. You just need to be able to read your plants and use the arsenal of products at hand to deal with "YOUR" setup! Don't get me wrong, as there are products that may be superior to AN, and I will not debate that here. The fact that a nutrient company can pull the wool over they eyes of many to make a buck due to advertisement is fine in my world. Suits the individuals right if they can't take the time to figure out what they need. AN does have some products that work; don't get me wrong. They also have a lot of crap.
> 
> All I can say is, I hope people take the time to sort through all the crap and learn how to grow before they do such comparisons. Would waste a lot less time.


I was about to flag this post for removal but I'll respond and then you're done in this thread. If you want to troll this forum, that's your call but the grow journal section is off limits. 

Now to address your trolly post: AN is made for newbs who don't know how to grow plants and who know nothing about the essential elements, plain and simple. Do you think any Professors of botany or horticulture are swinging by their local hydro shop to buy AN's watered-down, incomplete, overpriced snake oils on their way to a lecture? They know better than to be duped by their slick marketing.

At the end of the day, AN users are really trying to make things as difficult and as expensive as possible for themselves and there is simply a simpler way of doing things that yields superior results. 

If you're an AN guy, research the 16 essential elements, learn their roles in plant health and save yourself some money the next time you visit your hydro store.

Bye bye


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## sharpshoota (Nov 2, 2012)

^Slanty said:


> AN products work just fine as well. You just need to be able to read your plants and use the arsenal of products at hand to deal with "YOUR" setup! Don't get me wrong, as there are products that may be superior to AN, and I will not debate that here. The fact that a nutrient company can pull the wool over they eyes of many to make a buck due to advertisement is fine in my world. Suits the individuals right if they can't take the time to figure out what they need. AN does have some products that work; don't get me wrong. They also have a lot of crap.
> 
> All I can say is, I hope people take the time to sort through all the crap and learn how to grow before they read such comparisons and make up their minds of what they think works. Would waste a lot less time.
> 
> ...


id prefer to buy my nutrients from an honest company (dynagro) that doesnt hide whats in it bottle, resort to baseless claims, and create cheap catchy advertising gimmicks to increase sales. (hint hint advanced nutrients)

plant biology, its quite simple. if you disagree your overthinking it....


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## Jerm08 (Nov 4, 2012)

Long time lurker, but never posted until now. I must say, this has been a pleasure to read and big props to HB for writing, and conducting the study as well. Thank you


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## viridi (Nov 8, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> This showdown is going to be in the same manner as my https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/358562-dyna-gro-vs-general-hydroponics.html journal in that it wont be a simultaneous grow-off, but rather a direct comparison of the base nutrient lines offered by DynaGro and Advanced Nutrients. Ill be comparing things like pH stability, salt build up, plant performance, plant health, nutrient concentration levels, and of course final yield.
> 
> I chose Connoisseur because its probably the most expensive, over-hyped base nutrient on the market and as a veteran grower, Im in a much better position to put out the truth about the actual performance of this product than some beginner who just doesnt know any better. After 11 years in this hobby, Ive settled into the no-frills DynaGro brand which offers total and complete plant nutrition and isnt purposely split up into multiple products. Im not starting this journal because Im unhappy with my current nutrient brand, I just want to post some honest and bullshiz free info about ANs most prestigious base nutrient. Welcome to the no-hype zone .
> 
> ...


It seems like you know your stuff man. I was wondering though in this pic why the branching on these look thin and not bushy? Did you lollipop these? or is it from the stretch in flower?


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## homebrewer (Nov 8, 2012)

viridi said:


> It seems like you know your stuff man. I was wondering though in this pic why the branching on these look thin and not bushy? Did you lollipop these? or is it from the stretch in flower?


I veg all of my hydro plants under a 250 so they're not going to get that 'bushy', sturdy look that a 400 or a 1000 brings to the table. 

Here is a day 14 pic from this jounral. As you can see, the plants like the higher wattage.


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## viridi (Nov 9, 2012)

When you flower how much do the serious seeds AK-47 stretch?


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## homebrewer (Nov 9, 2012)

viridi said:


> When you flower how much do the serious seeds AK-47 stretch?


AK47 doubles in height in hydro and probably only increases in height by 50% in promix. Height is not as important as branching when in comes to static, overhead lighting.


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## viridi (Nov 9, 2012)

Have you ever had a serious seeds AK-47 more than double? How close to the light do you think is safe under 1000w in cool tube? Thank you for your responses.


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## homebrewer (Nov 9, 2012)

viridi said:


> Have you ever had a serious seeds AK-47 more than double? How close to the light do you think is safe under 1000w in cool tube? Thank you for your responses.


It all depends on your pheno selection. All the beans will yield something very similar across the board but generally, AK isn't going to stretch like a kali mist or a strain with hybrid vigor. 

1000w light should probably be 2 feed away from your plants. Depends on how good your reflector is though.


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## viridi (Nov 9, 2012)

I read where you flip at or before 15", how tall do your AK47 get when done?


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## homebrewer (Nov 9, 2012)

viridi said:


> I read where you flip at or before 15", how tall do your AK47 get when done?


You're not dealing with a 100% sativa here so I would not be so concerned about height. Just assume they'll double in height in hydro.

To answer your question, they end up around one meter tall.


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Nov 9, 2012)

|B3RNY| said:


> I have recently been using Dyna-Gro & I have fallen completely in love with everything they have, that I've tried (Grow, Bloom, Mag-Pro + Pro-Tekt.) If you were going to buy bulk nutrients then I think you could get by with a gallon(s) of Grow & a smaller supply of Bloom; like 1/2 gallon(s), etc. Like HB said, the only problem at all with DG nutrients is that the Bloom does not contain enough Nitrogen to keep a plant green/healthy throughout flowering... but then again- neither does anybody else's bloom/flower formulas IMO. Almost any brand of nutrient will work, assuming the pH is 'correct' and the NPK is at desirable levels relative to each other. DG is awesome; almost idiot proof, just add a bit of the Grow into flowering solutions. I favor DG, no question, over any Advanced nutrients product anymore (though I've encountered great results with their "Jungle Juice" formula (and it's a copy of GH's 3 part nutrient, so I assume that GH would also produce acceptable results.))
> HomeBrewer- I use tapwater myself but I was just curious, have you/do you know if anyone has experienced calcium deficiency problems with Dyna Gro stuff?


i have. i started reusing the magpro and problem normally goes away.


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## |B3RNY| (Nov 11, 2012)

I haven't had any issues; I was just curious as to why most companies make a 'calmag' type product but DynaGro's product is mostly Magnesium with a tiny bit of NPK. I've been using Magpro, mostly as a make-shift additive..


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## reverof (Nov 12, 2012)

biggest reason is their main products lack calcium... DyanGro arent lacking. Remember DynaGro has been around a LONG time and is not a "mj specific marketed nutrient source" otherwise DG products would be 2-3x more expensive


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## |B3RNY| (Nov 13, 2012)

I see what you're saying. I loved every nutrient I tried until I used some DynaGro; now I don't buy anything else. Lol.


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## akpaco (Nov 15, 2012)

HB

Just curious.. I'm using AN GMB Ph Perfect right now in an ebb and gro. I was using all the AN line and realized it was a waste of money. So I went with the GMB Ph Perfect because of the ease of not having to adjust the PH. I've been growing AK47 and have been doing pretty good. But I realized I'm not getting the benefit of the Ph Perfect anyway because if I used the recommended ratio to get down to the 5.6 ph it supposed to my ppm's would be about 1400... I think it's to hot. If I was to use DG on my next grow what exactly should I use in veg and then do you switch to bloom when you change your light cycle to 12/12? As a new grower I fell for all the hype but then came to realize I didn't need all that crap. So I simplified my grow as much as possible and have been doing a lot better and saved some cash along the way. So the thought of using one product interests me. I use city water which is at apprx 130ppm. Also my medium is hydroton but next grow will be switching to all grodan cubes. I'm going to keep reading through the thread as I'm sure the info I asked is on here somewhere. But it is a 116 pages.. Thanks in advance

Found it on page 63..
*

3-4mls of grow and maybe 4mls of protekt per gallon. Buy a pH pen, a TDS meter, and add protekt first.​




*


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## homebrewer (Nov 15, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HB
> 
> Just curious.. I'm using AN GMB Ph Perfect right now in an ebb and gro. I was using all the AN line and realized it was a waste of money. So I went with the GMB Ph Perfect because of the ease of not having to adjust the PH. I've been growing AK47 and have been doing pretty good. But I realized I'm not getting the benefit of the Ph Perfect anyway because if I used the recommended ratio to get down to the 5.6 ph it supposed to my ppm's would be about 1400... I think it's to hot. If I was to use DG on my next grow what exactly should I use in veg and then do you switch to bloom when you change your light cycle to 12/12? As a new grower I fell for all the hype but then came to realize I didn't need all that crap. So I simplified my grow as much as possible and have been doing a lot better and saved some cash along the way. So the thought of using one product interests me. I use city water which is at apprx 130ppm. Also my medium is hydroton but next grow will be switching to all grodan cubes. I'm going to keep reading through the thread as I'm sure the info I asked is on here somewhere. But it is a 116 pages.. Thanks in advance
> 
> ...


That quote from page 63 is a pretty good place to start for veg. Moving into flower, I bump the EC just over 1.0-1.1 and feed with about 80% bloom and 20% grow. That small amount of grow seems to be enough to keep the plants green in my environment. I pretty much keep protekt where it was in veg moving into flower and also add some magpro. Since you're using tap water, magpro might not be necessary for you.

FWIW, I like the rockwool blocks from B'cuzz a little better than grodan cubes. They're both good products but the grodan cubes hold water longer than I'd like them too as they're a little more dense.


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## sheik yerbouti (Dec 5, 2012)

HB. Great stuff, read through most of your journals and its inspiring stuff. Keep up the good work. 

Have a question for ya as I've recently switched from using a 7ish part gh series to one part floranova to simplify things. However on my first run I noticed my leaves yellowed as well as you with dyna early. I've never subscribed to the keep the leaves green all through plant life but I'm also still learning so I'm interested in making more of an effort to keep green. 

So I was thinking about adding just the flora grow part to my floranova solution to keep the N higher. Have you ever tried this instead of mixing the complete grow/bloom together (dyna for you obviously)? Seems like a simpler way of adjusting the N ratio if that's all that needed. 

Nice work. Also would love to see a 1 part nutrient show down in floranova vs dyna gro.


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## homebrewer (Dec 6, 2012)

sheik yerbouti said:


> HB. Great stuff, read through most of your journals and its inspiring stuff. Keep up the good work.
> 
> Have a question for ya as I've recently switched from using a 7ish part gh series to one part floranova to simplify things. However on my first run I noticed my leaves yellowed as well as you with dyna early. I've never subscribed to the keep the leaves green all through plant life but I'm also still learning so I'm interested in making more of an effort to keep green.
> 
> ...


Flora grow doesn't have a lot of N. In your case, if floranova bloom isn't keeping the leaves green, add in some floranova grow. However you do it, I'd recommend growing the healthiest plants you can as they will always produce the best meds.


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## ink the world (Dec 6, 2012)

Awesome thread homebrewer. Over the years Ive used tons of different nutrients. Its kinda funny how the best results Ive gotten over that time have been from the "cheap" nutes like Jacks Classic (the original Peters) and now recently Dynagro.


I had a younger grower kinda laugh when I told him what Ive been running with great success. After seeing his closet with like $600-$800 worth of AN stuff and his average plants I was the one smiling.

I ran some AN stuff a while back, just to quell my curiosity and see if there was anything more than slick marketing to it. Found out it was just as I suspected.


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## sensisensai (Dec 6, 2012)

Already inaccurate. By doing one then the other you're probing nothing. Barometric pressure, temperature humidity will all be different next round. Chances are mistakes will he made on one that aren't on the other. There's a reason we do side by side. It removes many variables giving more reliable results. Tho I'm sure I just pointed out a bunch of shit we already knew and made myself look like a dick in the process? Lol. Sorry if that's the case. Wasn't my intention you just can really call it anything conclusive one way or another.. wont keep me from watching. The last one was pretty cool.


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## homebrewer (Dec 6, 2012)

sensisensai said:


> Already inaccurate. By doing one then the other you're probing nothing. Barometric pressure, temperature humidity will all be different next round. Chances are mistakes will he made on one that aren't on the other. There's a reason we do side by side. It removes many variables giving more reliable results. Tho I'm sure I just pointed out a bunch of shit we already knew and made myself look like a dick in the process? Lol. Sorry if that's the case. Wasn't my intention you just can really call it anything conclusive one way or another.. wont keep me from watching. The last one was pretty cool.


This grow was just a test grow to see how AN's most over-hyped base nutes do in my hydroponic system. I grew AK47 (clones from the same mom I've always used), a strain I've grown countless numbers of times and I'm very familiar how it regularly performs. What I like about hydro is that it's consistent and parameters can be measured at any time. I kept everything the same (flood cycles, feeding levels, pH, my environment, everything) for this grow and the results are posted about 50 pages back. 

I recently did a test grow with H&G's aqua flakes under the exact same conditions as every one of my grows and H&G killed it. No surprises, no issues, it was consistent and true from start to finish. That's how GH performs, that's how DG performs, that is what you come to expect out of high quality plant foods. Connoisseur presented issues in this grow and I never have issues in my hydro system, _ever_. Does Connoisseur need calmag? According to their label it shouldn't. Are their sources for nitrogen cheap and a poor choice for hydroponic growing? Absolutely. No other hydroponic plant food uses _Urea_ and _Other Water Soluble Nitrogen_ as the industry standard is _nitrate_ and _ammoniacal._

Connoisseur may work ok in coco/dirt/promix but it's a poor choice for hydroponics. It's actually a poor choice for coco/dirt/promix given the plethora of other more versatile, less expensive, easier to use options at the hydro store.


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## merkzilla (Dec 7, 2012)

I'm on about week 8 (from seed, not in flower yet) and gave dyna-gro a run this time based on HB's case studies. I'm not going to lie, it's been the easiest start from seed I've had yet. The only things I've added outside of dyna-gro grow/protekt is a camg from botanicare (only issues I ever had so far has been camg since I tend be afraid of over feeding it). All in promix. In two weeks I'm moving to flowering. Next round I'm going to make it a better point to make notes to fine tune the feeding.


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## unohu69 (Dec 7, 2012)

I been running Dg for about a year now. the magpro fixed my yellowing leaf issues, that and switching to 99% straight Grow, no Bloom for flower. I try to run about 600-700 ppm. 

2ml protekt, 5ml grow (a dash more if i feel i need a stronger feed), 1 - 1.5 ml magpro / per gallon water. KLN is the absolute best for rooting. 2gallon bubblers, 2ml grow, 5ml KLN.. gets me roots in 5-7 days, no humidity domes 99% success rate. all in promix dx (i think, the one with myco in it works best for me) 2:1 promix/perlite gives good drainage.

maybe 2 or 3 times in the flower cycle i will add in Bloom for a lil kick. but im fairly certain its completly unnecessary. I know of one person who only used DG grow start to finish, and he has great results.


in DWC I run the exact same nute mix only I add in Floralicious + 1ml per gallon. i dont even bother chkn PH/ PPm anymore, this stuff is so reliable with the resulst. I go 2 weeks between water changes.
no fuss, KISS principles goin on here. 

the real work goes into drying and curing anyways. Im very Thankful to HB and his awesome advice. Bigbuddhacheese is another good DG user here. 

personally, i know how long i have been smoking (goin on 24 yrs), and I know how picky I can be when it comes to my smoke, i would like to consider my self a real connoisseur. And folks who know, deff are fans of my work. 

Id say I owe most of my succes to finding HB's threads on the subject. , IDk, jus tokin a bowl, seen the thread still goin strong... figured id drop my .02 stay high & have fun....


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## homebrewer (Dec 7, 2012)

merkzilla said:


> I'm on about week 8 (from seed, not in flower yet) and gave dyna-gro a run this time based on HB's case studies. I'm not going to lie, it's been the easiest start from seed I've had yet. The only things I've added outside of dyna-gro grow/protekt is a camg from botanicare (only issues I ever had so far has been camg since I tend be afraid of over feeding it). All in promix. In two weeks I'm moving to flowering. Next round I'm going to make it a better point to make notes to fine tune the feeding.


Pretty easy stuff, huh. I'm doing a grow journal right now (https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/566752-classic-seeds-grow-journal.html) and they've really only been getting grow and protekt. I'm not saying calmag might not be needed for you, your strains or your environment, but I have yet to see a need for more calcium and magnesium than is already supplied by their base nutrients. 

This is the most recent update, day 42 of flower and overall they're maybe 90 days from seed. I've never hit them with calmag but I do own a bottle, it's a great tool to have especially if you use RO water. This is a Thai and Columbian Gold crossed to (C99 x Romulan):



















And some bud shots:


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## merkzilla (Dec 8, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Pretty easy stuff, huh. I'm doing a grow journal right now (https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/566752-classic-seeds-grow-journal.html) and they've really only been getting grow and protekt. I'm not saying calmag might not be needed for you, your strains or your environment, but I have yet to see a need for more calcium and magnesium than is already supplied by their base nutrients.
> 
> This is the most recent update, day 42 of flower and overall they're maybe 90 days from seed. I've never hit them with calmag but I do own a bottle, it's a great tool to have especially if you use RO water. This is a Thai and Columbian Gold crossed to (C99 x Romulan):
> 
> ...


Might be the case that it's not needed. Just had a problem pop up, going to send you a message about it in a minute.


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## viridi (Dec 9, 2012)

20 ounces seems very good for a 600w. What do you think your yield would be if you veged and flowered under 1000w mh and 1000w hps respectively? Also how big is your flood table and how much space is between your plants? Thanks


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## homebrewer (Dec 9, 2012)

viridi said:


> 20 ounces seems very good for a 600w. What do you think your yield would be if you veged and flowered under 1000w mh and 1000w hps respectively? Also how big is your flood table and how much space is between your plants? Thanks


I have no idea what my yields would be if I used a 1000. I actually don't like 1000s as I think they're best utilized in setups other than where the light is static and overhead. 1000s will also grow bigger flowers and I already need to watch out for mold in the headbuds grown with my 600s. 

These concrete mixing tubs I use for flood tables are 2x3 I think so there is a pretty small footprint there. As you can see, there is no space between the plants at the canopy but the blocks are about 6 inches apart.


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## NaturalBornCarny (Dec 9, 2012)

Hey HB you say you run 9 plants under the 600w in your footprint? Is it just me or in a lot of your pics it looks like I only see 6? Just curious love your threads thanks for all your quality work


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## homebrewer (Dec 9, 2012)

NaturalBornCarny said:


> Hey HB you say you run 9 plants under the 600w in your footprint?


...in promix.


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## NaturalBornCarny (Dec 9, 2012)

No with your 6 inch cubes in your flood tray.


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## homebrewer (Dec 9, 2012)

NaturalBornCarny said:


> No with your 6 inch cubes in your flood tray.


You counted correctly.


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## NaturalBornCarny (Dec 9, 2012)

Alas my eyes didn't deceive me. So are your hydro plants pulling the 20 ounces? I thought you said just over 2 ozs a plant but hell that could have been 2yrs ago when you originally posted. I read through your journals in the past 2 days so I may be confused.


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## NaturalBornCarny (Dec 9, 2012)

I have been growing for a while, mostly outdoor, and have had good success. My first indoor was great. In hindsight I realized I had some luck because after that I went through a span of bad genetics and over complicating things. Chicago is the closest I can go to a store for advice or just general browsing and is over 3 hrs away. I learned A LOT through trial and error. I have to say your threads, when they stay on track lol, have been very informative and reading your journals all at once I have seen your experience grow as well. Thanks and stay safe


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## homebrewer (Dec 9, 2012)

NaturalBornCarny said:


> Alas my eyes didn't deceive me. So are your hydro plants pulling the 20 ounces? I thought you said just over 2 ozs a plant but hell that could have been 2yrs ago when you originally posted. I read through your journals in the past 2 days so I may be confused.


It's strain-dependent of course but it's pretty easy to land in the 18-21 ounce range in my hydro setup. In promix, 2-3 ounces per plant is average I suppose (18-24 ounces as a group) but I've been testing the use of more promix in the pots to see how that affects yields given the same amount of veg time and same plant height as they move into flower. In promix though, I never 'mono crop' as I'm not a cash cropper so it's not unusual to have 9 different strains under 1 light. My goal is not so much focused on yield as it is keeping the plants healthy and in their own space. My Kalis get tall and can sometime lean over two other plants if they're not tied up. I just pulled down some Ethiopian landrace that grew past my lights so again, this is a hobby for me that my patients benefit from. I'm interested in the science behind what we do, I'm always pushing the limits of quality and it's fun looking for those exotic strains that will rip you to the moon.


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## viridi (Dec 13, 2012)

Do you use regular or feminized serious seeds ak47?


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## KrAzY80 (Dec 14, 2012)

Ive ran just about everything AN has in soil and hydro and never hit above 20 ounce per 1000w light. I have also used tap, well and Ro and narrowed my problems done to one thing ( my nutes ). I never had a perfect run from start to finish and micro defeciencies in mid flower was the most common. Everytime I tried to correct them I would get N toxicity. The best results I had were when I supplemented magpro. I broke every bottle down in Canna stats and found alot of important elements were either missing or in abundance. Just my experience and I was hell bent on making AN work for 2 years but never could.


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## KrAzY80 (Dec 14, 2012)

My intentions are not to bash AN and I havent tried the ph perfect line. I know to some 2 years experience isnt much but I invested alot of that time experimenting and ran perpetual and only used AN nutes. It did produce some nice end product and yield but not a healthy crop from start to finish. I think that bigger yields system is only comparing yield to their own lol. Why would they have a complete base and offer a shit ton of supplements? Thats where the marketing comes in. 

HB do you use dyna grow for rooted clones and seedlings or a root stimulater or b vitamin supplement? Also would you recomend the aqua flakes or dyna for the most complete base with minimal need for supplements and ease of use?


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## homebrewer (Dec 18, 2012)

viridi said:


> Do you use regular or feminized serious seeds ak47?


I 'use' clones from a mother that came from a regular serious seeds pack. Nothing against fem'd beans but I prefer regular beans.




> HB do you use dyna grow for rooted clones and seedlings or a root stimulater or b vitamin supplement? Also would you recomend the aqua flakes or dyna for the most complete base with minimal need for supplements and ease of use?


I use DG from seed/clone to harvest. The only time I use any 'root products' are when I clone. I like KLN and Clonex.

DG is the best all around plant food, IMHO. Aqua Flakes did really, really well in hydro but I would not want to deal with a 2-part for promix growing. As far as AF being complete; I have no idea what elements are in those bottles as H&G labels their products one way, yet registers them as another. DG is upfront about what elements they are supplying which makes feeding plants very easy. If I need more N than P, I know which bottle to grab.


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## viridi (Dec 21, 2012)

How long does the ak-47 stretch last?


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## MaineWeed (Dec 21, 2012)

viridi said:


> How long does the ak-47 stretch last?


My AK stretched for just over 2 weeks..a lot the first then it slowed


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## homebrewer (Dec 21, 2012)

viridi said:


> How long does the ak-47 stretch last?


It doesn't stretch all that much in promix but it'll come close to doubling in height in hydro. Three weeks for the stretch maybe?


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## scooby419 (Dec 21, 2012)

Just finished reading all 118 pages of this grow journal! Thanks HB for all the info in there! I have read your other journals and my notebook is filled with great notes to dial in my new hydro set up! Knowledgeable growers like yourself are a breath of fresh air in a world of useless/biased/unsubstantiated information!


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## viridi (Dec 21, 2012)

Thanks HB, if I flipped at 11in and they are about 16in at day 15 do you think that I should have flipped when they were a little bigger? And do you think this will have a negative impact on yield?


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## homebrewer (Dec 21, 2012)

viridi said:


> Thanks HB, if I flipped at 11in and they are about 16in at day 15 *do you think that I should have flipped when they were a little bigger?* And do you think this will have a negative impact on yield?


It depends on your wattage.


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## viridi (Dec 21, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> It depends on your wattage.


Under 1000w ushio


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## homebrewer (Dec 21, 2012)

viridi said:


> Under 1000w ushio


It depends on your style of growing _and_ your height restriction. If you're running 36 plants under that 1000, 16 inches tall is about perfect. I run fewer plants and grow them bigger so I'd think 11 inches moving into flower is too short for me. If you're running aero, 11inches going into flower means your plants will be 4 ft tall in a matter of weeks. Basically, it all depends.


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## reverof (Dec 24, 2012)

viridi... depending on the strain... I flip a few different strains at 12" I run a very similar setup to HB and same nute lines, at 12" going into flower they typically finish about 3' tall. with 16 plants under a 1k light, even a raptor you are going to overcrowd, your best bet is to cut back the bottom 50-75% of each plant and force as much energy to the top as you can as the under branches will yield little or nothing in that crowded room.

Sorry for jumping in, this is HB's thread but just wanted to share my opinion due to doing similar as viridi a long time back. DG is a great product hands down.


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## gargantuanganja (Dec 24, 2012)

homebrewer said:


>


I'm so damn jealous of you. (Thai x Colombian Gold) x (c99 x Romulan) sounds like a phenomenal strain. Bred by a friend? Where'd you find this beast? I hope my plants come back half as beautiful as this.


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## homebrewer (Dec 24, 2012)

gargantuanganja said:


> I'm so damn jealous of you. (Thai x Colombian Gold) x (c99 x Romulan) sounds like a phenomenal strain. Bred by a friend? Where'd you find this beast? I hope my plants come back half as beautiful as this.


It's bred by a guy named Classic and you can find that cross along with many others at SeedDepot: http://www.seeddepot.nl/cannabis-seeds/classic-seeds.html

I've not smoked the cross yet but will definitely be updating my journal with a smoke report of the different ladies I have (https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/566752-classic-seeds-grow-journal.html).


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## viridi (Dec 26, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I do leach salts every 3 weeks but use plain tap water as mine is 250+ ppm. I feel that this is a very important step as rock will clog up with salts if the medium isn't properly taken care of.


How long do you leach for?


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## homebrewer (Dec 26, 2012)

viridi said:


> How long do you leach for?


No more than about 45 seconds.


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## viridi (Dec 26, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> No more than about 45 seconds.


So a 45 sec flood with low ppm water, correct? Then back to normal strength nutes afterwards, right?


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## SpliffAndMyLady (Dec 29, 2012)

So about 7 ml's of nutes per gallon during veg to play with and 15 ml's during flowering? With RO water would this keep my ppm's around 200 for veg, and 400 for flower?


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## homebrewer (Dec 29, 2012)

viridi said:


> So a 45 sec flood with low ppm water, correct? Then back to normal strength nutes afterwards, right?


I use a hose and run tap water through the tops of the blocks to leach salts. 



SpliffAndMyLady said:


> So about 7 ml's of nutes per gallon during veg to play with and 15 ml's during flowering? With RO water would this keep my ppm's around 200 for veg, and 400 for flower?


That's way too much plant food per gallon. For 'dirt', I'd recommend the 'maintence' dosage listed on the bottles themselves.


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## viridi (Jan 1, 2013)

Thanks again hb and + rep. I hate to keep bothering you with questions. I am at 4 week of flower and I am getting brown tips with yellow leaves and some of the leaves have brown spots on them. I have looked on several forums but keep reading several different things such as mg def, over nute ect. What do you think this could be? Flora nova bloom at 700ppm was at 800/830ppm on .5 scale, 5.8ph checked daily. Ph stays very stable, ph checked with Hanna Meter. 3 two min floods in 4in rock wool. There are yellow leaves all over some plants more than others all ak 47 from clone. And all plants have very minimal to small brown tips. Some have more yellow leaves with brown tips and brown spots and leaf curl turning crispy.


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## homebrewer (Jan 1, 2013)

viridi said:


> Thanks again hb and + rep. I hate to keep bothering you with questions. I am at 4 week of flower and I am getting brown tips with yellow leaves and some of the leaves have brown spots on them. I have looked on several forums but keep reading several different things such as mg def, over nute ect. What do you think this could be? Flora nova bloom at 700ppm was at 800/830ppm on .5 scale, 5.8ph checked daily. Ph stays very stable, ph checked with Hanna Meter. 3 two min floods in 4in rock wool. There are yellow leaves all over some plants more than others all ak 47 from clone. And all plants have very minimal to small brown tips. Some have more yellow leaves with brown tips and brown spots and leaf curl turning crispy.


You're probably not flooding long enough and you're probably overfeeding them. It could be many things though.


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## randy2112 (Jan 7, 2013)

Hi, I know this is a old thread but I need to know something I cant find on the forum... The exact recipe for the DynaGro Grow and Bloom as well as the florablend and floralicious mls per gallon. 
What i did get so far is: EX veg = 0.7 and Bloom =1.0 to 1.2. 
Veg: Grow 5-10ml per gallon
Bloom: 1ml grow, 7ml bloom, and 5ml protec K per gallon,

What about the florablend and floralicious? How much and when? 

I am blind (I use a screen reading program that makes searching tedious and time consuming) and spent a couple of hours reading this thread and looking around the site but I just cant find this info... I may have just missed it but please post it here for me.  I would really appreaceate the help!!!


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## doniawon (Jan 7, 2013)

i need a link for the cheapest 6" block in bulk??.. bcuzz, or cutilene paragro?? any suggestion?


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## homebrewer (Jan 7, 2013)

randy2112 said:


> Hi, I know this is a old thread but I need to know something I cant find on the forum... The exact recipe for the DynaGro Grow and Bloom as well as the florablend and floralicious mls per gallon.
> What i did get so far is: EX *veg = 0.7 and Bloom =1.0 to 1.2. *
> Veg: Grow 5-10ml per gallon
> *Bloom*: 1ml *grow*, 7ml* bloom*, and 5ml *protec K* per gallon,
> ...


You've got the important info in *bold* there, just mix it up and figure out how many mls it takes to get to those numbers. I don't know the numbers off the top of my head. I should add that I do like protekt in veg too.

I use floralicious plus as directed on the bottle but only use it in flower.




doniawon said:


> i need a link for the cheapest 6" block in bulk??.. bcuzz, or cutilene paragro?? any suggestion?


I like the b'cuzz blocks over grodan. The grodans are more dense, they'll hold water for longer and in some environments that's good but it mine it encourages the algae/gnats/mold cycle.


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## randy2112 (Jan 8, 2013)

Thanks HB.  
What ratio of Grow to ProtecK? I could just go by the bottles label but I was hopeing you had it more dialed in!


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## Trichy Bastard (Jan 25, 2013)

... :/ ......


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## thewizard01 (Feb 8, 2013)

Hey HB. Awesome comparisons you run. I like how unbiased you are

Anyway, I was wondering. Once you have a clone rooted, do you put that clone directly into the 6 inch block or do you have a another step in there somewhere before going to the final block? Also, IF you do go straight into the 6 inch block OR if somebody were to take a clone and put it into a 6 inch block, do you/would you flood the tray less in early veg due to the rockwool holding a good amount of moisture compared to other mediums?

Also, when you ever need to add PH down or PH up to the rez do you just put alittle in STRAIGHT?, or do you dilute it in water and then add it in?

Thanks alot buddy. I wish there were more of them like you on here...


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## homebrewer (Feb 8, 2013)

thewizard01 said:


> Hey HB. Awesome comparisons you run. I like how unbiased you are
> 
> Anyway, I was wondering. Once you have a clone rooted, do you put that clone directly into the 6 inch block or do you have a another step in there somewhere before going to the final block? Also, IF you do go straight into the 6 inch block OR if somebody were to take a clone and put it into a 6 inch block, do you/would you flood the tray less in early veg due to the rockwool holding a good amount of moisture compared to other mediums?


I try to go straight into the blocks once the clone has rooted. I'll also flood less times during the day since the plant isn't drinking a lot of water at those early stages.



> Also, when you ever need to add PH down or PH up to the rez do you just put alittle in STRAIGHT?, or do you dilute it in water and then add it in?


I add it straight at a few mls at a time and the only times it's really needed is during a res change. Even though my mix lands at 5.7, I'll 'pH up' that to 5.8-5.9.


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## thewizard01 (Feb 10, 2013)

Thank you bud!!


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## BudHound (Feb 24, 2013)

Sup Homebrewer, 

Major thanks on recommending Dyna Nuts, I don't plan to switch over to anything else endless I am doing organic outdoor. Major success using Dyna in ebb and flo. My concern is do you need to PH in flushing using ro water? (I currently do ph it in flushing, I only ad hygrozyme and H2O2 to get the resvoir and equip cleaned or try to!) I'm sure answer is here somewhere, but I have read you thread twice and wrote down many notes, spent last hour trying to look for answer. Anyhow, If you can provide to some valuable info as to why or why not.. Thanks in advance.


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## homebrewer (Feb 24, 2013)

BudHound said:


> Sup Homebrewer,
> 
> Major thanks on recommending Dyna Nuts, I don't plan to switch over to anything else endless I am doing organic outdoor. Major success using Dyna in ebb and flo. My concern is do you need to PH in flushing using ro water? (I currently do ph it in flushing, I only ad hygrozyme and H2O2 to get the resvoir and equip cleaned or try to!) I'm sure answer is here somewhere, but I have read you thread twice and wrote down many notes, spent last hour trying to look for answer. Anyhow, If you can provide to some valuable info as to why or why not.. Thanks in advance.


I don't flush. Instead, I just lower the amount of food to what the plant is taking in during the last week or two.


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## YouLookAdopted (Mar 10, 2013)

Hey Homebrewer, great little experiment and thanks for doing it. I am sold on Dyna-Gro for sure. Did you end up using the floralicious plus in conjunction? And did you use Pro-tekt too? Sorry, my reading of this thread from last night is a bit hazy!

Also, i'd like to get your feedback on this regimen:

Dyna-Gro grow and bloom
Floralicious Plus
Botanicare Silica Blast (or would Pro-tekt be a better option?)
Dutch Masters Gold Zone
FloraNectar


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## homebrewer (Mar 10, 2013)

YouLookAdopted said:


> Hey Homebrewer, great little experiment and thanks for doing it. I am sold on Dyna-Gro for sure. Did you end up using the floralicious plus in conjunction? And did you use Pro-tekt too? Sorry, my reading of this thread from last night is a bit hazy!
> 
> Also, i'd like to get your feedback on this regimen:
> 
> ...


Grow and bloom are great in hydro, I also like floralicious plus. Protekt is a better value than silica blast as it has 4 times the amount of silica for the same price. DM zone and floranectar are not needed.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Mar 10, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> Grow and bloom are great in hydro, I also like floralicious plus. Protekt is a better value than silica blast as it has 4 times the amount of silica for the same price. DM zone and floranectar are not needed.


You can make tea for quite a bit cheaper. It seems to work a long time too... I just put some hummus, fungus, fish emulsion, kelp, and thats it in there. I do it once every water change (2 weeks). It seems to keep the roots white, and not stinky. Keeps bugs away etc. I also use some mosquito dunks, but they are just crumbs. I put it in the bottom of the pot before i transplant. to hydro.


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## blazedgeek (Mar 11, 2013)

Hey HB thank you! Off to read testing beneficials its quite amazing 2-3ml of gro in veg is enough and how powerful these nutes are. Im in coco and have recently lowered my ec from 1.0 in veg down to .7 and in flower from 1.4-1.6 down to 1.1 1.2 and everybody is much happier now.


peace
BG


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## blazedgeek (Mar 18, 2013)

i have a question if using RO or a mix of RO and bubbled tap bringing the ec down to .01. 
Should Magpro be used regularly @ .5 or 1ml per gal in veg and bloom or as a booster only during certain weeks in bloom because of the boost in P? Thanks


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## homebrewer (Mar 18, 2013)

blazedgeek said:


> i have a question if using RO or a mix of RO and bubbled tap bringing the ec down to .01.
> Should Magpro be used regularly @ .5 or 1ml per gal in veg and bloom or as a booster only during certain weeks in bloom because of the boost in P? Thanks


I don't use magpro in the 'dirt' and I can't imagine you'd need it in coco.


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## blazedgeek (Mar 19, 2013)

That probually explains the tip burns, i dropped calmag+ and went mag pro @.5ml per gal. Using ro water im going to drop it
thanks for the quick response and help HB!

take it easy
BG


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## BudHound (Mar 24, 2013)

Off topic, but look into Primordial Solutions. I currently use all Dyna nuts in ebb and flow and add Liquid Karma along with Primordial. Stuff gets my res tanks all foamy using airstones, active life at work in the water! I get good results using sythetic dyna and Primordial/LK for any life activity. Stuff helps for transplanting and shock! Gluck and Jah bless


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## joe macclennan (Apr 8, 2013)

hey hb, I've used dynagro/bloom off and on for years. Never used protekt or magpro before. My local store doesn't carry em. I'm experimenting w/ionic series now but not really happy w/it so far. It is a little less concentrated than dyna so much more needs to be used.

I run a 50/50 mix of RO and straight well water. This gets my ppm to around 200. How much protekt would you recomend per gallon if running dynabloom/gro? It also seems like I could never get a full two weeks on a waterchange while running dyna. 10-12 days seemed best. This sound bout right to you? I always felt like the bloom alone was a little short on potassium. It seems like it needs a little phosphorus late in flower too. The protekt should help this some tho right?

Do you think I would benefit from running mag pro or eliminating the ro altogether? It seems when I run straight well water I get an excessive amount of calcium deposits. My well water runs around 300-400 at a ph of 7.2. Lots of Iron and calcium. Even after running it through several prefilters.

I've got bout a months worth of the ionic series left so I have time to decide. I did order some magpro, and protekt already as I'm probably going back to dyna anyways.

.. Edit. I run sog and ebb and grow to flower my mums.
I'm interested to hear any opinions or advice you have on this. You are one of the few ppl. who really likes the dyna series. I always was happy with it overall, just a few things I didn't like.

thanks..


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## homebrewer (Apr 9, 2013)

joe macclennan said:


> I run a 50/50 mix of RO and straight well water. This gets my ppm to around 200. How much protekt would you recomend per gallon if running dynabloom/gro? It also seems like I could never get a full two weeks on a waterchange while running dyna. 10-12 days seemed best. This sound bout right to you? I always felt like the bloom alone was a little short on potassium. It seems like it needs a little phosphorus late in flower too. The protekt should help this some tho right?


Protekt; I use 1/2-1 tsp/gal. I change my res each week no matter what food I'm using. Bloom has plenty of potassium and probably too much phosphorus relative to nitrogen. I'm actually experimenting right now with using no bloom during flower.



> Do you think I would benefit from running mag pro or eliminating the ro altogether? It seems when I run straight well water I get an excessive amount of calcium deposits. My well water runs around 300-400 at a ph of 7.2. Lots of Iron and calcium. Even after running it through several prefilters.


If anything, you should use _more_ RO. But if you're getting good results with your 50/50 split then stick with that. After I finish my 'no bloom tests', I'll be playing with magpro. I remember finding that with RO magpro is beneficial but I want to revisit that. Magpro is just a supplement, you shouldn't be using a lot of it anyways.


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## joe macclennan (Apr 10, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> If anything, you should use _more_ RO. But if you're getting good results with your 50/50 split then stick with that. After I finish my 'no bloom tests', I'll be playing with magpro. I remember finding that with RO magpro is beneficial but I want to revisit that. Magpro is just a supplement, you shouldn't be using a lot of it anyways.


 Why do you say I should use more ro? I was using a 60 RO/40 WW ratio. I recently went to 50/50. I also was adding 4oz of botanicare calmag per 50 gallons. I am interested to see how this magpro does.


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## homebrewer (Apr 10, 2013)

joe macclennan said:


> Why do you say I should use more ro? I was using a 60 RO/40 WW ratio. I recently went to 50/50. I also was adding 4oz of botanicare calmag per 50 gallons. I am interested to see how this magpro does.


I said 'if anything, you should use more Ro' as opposed to using more well water. RO is a clean slate and well water is crap shoot. Like I said though, if 50/50 is working, stick with it.


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## necbyter (Apr 18, 2013)

I cant thank you enough for the knowledge you have given me and everyone else for that matter. I have studied all your grows so far and I'm taking the plunge into hydro. I live in the U.S. and I am trying to use tap water. Just bought the bluelab ph and ppm pen. If I may ask you opinion. My Tap water on the 500 scale is 240ppm on the 700 scale its 340 and the ec is .5 would it be okay to use this water in a nft set up? Also you mentioned if I remember correctly something about a 440 scale? My freakin brain is hurting. Please help. I was tought at a very young age to copy to the tee a successful person and in return I would become a successful. Now homebrewer I know you hate to spoon feed people but could you PLEASE get out the spoon for me? What scale should I be using?


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## homebrewer (Apr 18, 2013)

necbyter said:


> I cant thank you enough for the knowledge you have given me and everyone else for that matter. I have studied all your grows so far and I'm taking the plunge into hydro. I live in the U.S. and I am trying to use tap water. Just bought the bluelab ph and ppm pen. If I may ask you opinion. My Tap water on the 500 scale is 240ppm on the 700 scale its 340 and the ec is .5 would it be okay to use this water in a nft set up? Also you mentioned if I remember correctly something about a 440 scale? My freakin brain is hurting. Please help. I was tought at a very young age to copy to the tee a successful person and in return I would become a successful. Now homebrewer I know you hate to spoon feed people but could you PLEASE get out the spoon for me? What scale should I be using?


When talking about feeding levels or nutrient concentrations on forums, it's helpful to use EC, but if you use ppm and say '._7 scale_' or '_.5 scale_', halfway educated growers will know what you mean. All that's important is that you can work between the different ppm scales and know what EC equals what ppm as it pertains to you. Like when you said, '_My Tap water on the 500 scale is 240ppm..._', I knew exactly what you meant and so would anyone else. That's some hard water you've got there and I'd recommend an RO filter. You don't have to use 100% RO but something in the ballpark of 75% RO / 25% tap will make your future in hydro a lot easier.


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## necbyter (Apr 18, 2013)

Thank you kind Sir. RO it is. So from what I gather ec is the same all over the world its not on any particular scale like ppm is.


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## homebrewer (Apr 18, 2013)

necbyter said:


> Thank you kind Sir. RO it is. So from what I gather ec is the same all over the world its not on any particular scale like ppm is.


Exactly. PPM is based off of EC and EC is universal.


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 20, 2013)

Is there any benefit to adding a bloom booster prior to or recently after begining to flower? In my mind it seems reasonable that it the additional P-K could help produce more bud sites and give the bud growth a healthy start. After the initial addition of a bloom booster such as Beastie Bloomz to the feeding, continue feeding with booster as directed. 

Thoughts from anyone more experienced than I? Maybe someone has tried this?


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## homebrewer (Apr 20, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> Is there any benefit to adding a bloom booster prior to or recently after begining to flower? In my mind it seems reasonable that it the additional P-K could help produce more bud sites and give the bud growth a healthy start. After the initial addition of a bloom booster such as Beastie Bloomz to the feeding, continue feeding with booster as directed.
> 
> Thoughts from anyone more experienced than I? Maybe someone has tried this?


I'm running a test right now where I'm not using any of DG's _bloom_, just _Grow_ and a little _magpro_. I question how much P is actually needed.


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## chuck estevez (Apr 21, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> I'm running a test right now where I'm not using any of DG's _bloom_, just _Grow_ and a little _magpro_. I question how much P is actually needed.


Just finished a grow using only jack's 20-20-20 and I'm kinda pissed at UB. I have so much bud to trim it's ridiculous. My plants where so happy all the way thru to the end and I got more than when I was using all the additives and bloom nutes. I am now freed from bloom nutes and additives.


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 21, 2013)

A friend of mine swear's by Jacks AP. I'm using Dyna-Gro right now because I couldn't find Jack's. Glad to hear Chuck! I hope mine turn out half as nice as yours sound. If I can't get great quality... I hope I at LEAST get great quantity.

Looking forward to hearing how that goes Brewer. I take it you've had good results with Dyna-Gro Bloom and are just looking for something even more simple?


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## homebrewer (Apr 21, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> A friend of mine swear's by Jacks AP. I'm using Dyna-Gro right now because I couldn't find Jack's. Glad to hear Chuck! I hope mine turn out half as nice as yours sound. If I can't get great quality... I hope I at LEAST get great quantity.
> 
> Looking forward to hearing how that goes Brewer. *I take it you've had good results with Dyna-Gro Bloom and are just looking for something even more simple?*


I question how much P is actually needed for great results. I already know the answer for dirt, hydro is different though. DG's bloom IME needs some Grow in hydroponic systems to keep the plants green. That combo works great but I'm trying to determine if a different mineral ratio works better.


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 21, 2013)

Well enlighten me sensei. 
I grow in dirt. What is the magic P number for soil? I'm sure you've already stated it in this thread many times, but it is so long. I've read the first half of it, but the grows faster than I can read it, so I will never get finished, lol.


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## PurpleBuz (Apr 21, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> I question how much P is actually needed for great results. I already know the answer for dirt, hydro is different though. DG's bloom IME needs some Grow in hydroponic systems to keep the plants green. That combo works great but I'm trying to determine if a different mineral ratio works better.


I just ordered in some Potassium Nitrate to supplement Dynagrow in my next grow. I seem to hit an N threshold with DG during periods of rapid growth getting nute burn even with EC less than 1.0.
Perhaps the variety I'm growing (Selene) is extra sensitive to Ammonia.

I'm also hopeing that mixing in a little more Potassium with Bloom will even out the high P ratio.

For dirt how much P is needed?


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## homebrewer (Apr 21, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> Well enlighten me sensei.
> I grow in dirt. What is the magic P number for soil? I'm sure you've already stated it in this thread many times, but it is so long. I've read the first half of it, but the grows faster than I can read it, so I will never get finished, lol.


As chuck stated, something balanced like a 20-20-20 would work great. DG's _Grow_ works well too but that's also pretty balanced. Boosters or high P formulas when used in the dirt just induce leaf drop.


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 21, 2013)

OH! Ok, well... good to know. I wound up removing most of the main fan leaves after the incident with Pro-Tekt. I still have a little under a month left in indoor veg, then I will be transplanting them outdoors into the ground (May 10th or so), so I think it will be ok. Thanks for all the info.


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## Tiz I (May 2, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> I question how much P is actually needed for great results. I already know the answer for dirt, hydro is different though. DG's bloom IME needs some Grow in hydroponic systems to keep the plants green. That combo works great but I'm trying to determine if a different mineral ratio works better.


You're focusing too much on the nitrogen/phosphorus ratio. The ratio of nitrate nitrogen/ammoniacal nitrogen is more important. 3-12-6 has 0.7% ammoniacal nitrogen, that's a lot. I've grown with 3-12-6 hydroponic in rockwool slabs, with co2, for a long, long time. I never had a nitrogen deficiency until I switched to Ionic 3-2-6. Ionic bloom 3-2-6 has 0.16% ammoniacial nitrogen. I get a nitrogen deficiency 10 day to 2 wks after turning to 12 hrs w/co2. Without co2 it is fine. Even with the pretty severe N def. I get a lot more yield and better taste with Ionic. Can't knock dyna-gro 3-12-6 though. Just my opinion I wouldn't use grow fertilizers at all. Especially dyna-gro 7-9-5...2.0% ammoniacal nitrogen is crazy. Also I would use epsom salts instead of mag-pro because of the amm. nitrogen. I only use bloom fertilizer for veg and flower. You just want enough amm. nitrogen to avoid a deficiency. Any more then that you'll sacrifice yield. Just friendly suggestions.


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## homebrewer (May 2, 2013)

Tiz I said:


> You're focusing too much on the nitrogen/phosphorus ratio. The ratio of nitrate nitrogen/ammoniacal nitrogen is more important. *3-12-6 has 0.7% ammoniacal nitrogen, that's a lot. I've grown with 3-12-6 hydroponic in rockwool slabs, with co2, for a long, long time. I never had a nitrogen deficiency until I switched to Ionic 3-2-6. Ionic bloom 3-2-6 has 0.16% ammoniacial nitrogen. I get a nitrogen deficiency 10 day to 2 wks after turning to 12 hrs w/co2.* Without co2 it is fine. Even with the pretty severe N def. I get a lot more yield and better taste with Ionic. Can't knock dyna-gro 3-12-6 though. Just my opinion. Also I would use epsom salts instead of mag-pro because of the amm. nitrogen. I only use bloom fertilizer for veg and flower. You just want enough amm. nitrogen to avoid a deficiency. Any more then that you'll sacrifice yield. Just friendly suggestions.


So just to clarify, you think DG's Bloom has _too much _ammoniacal nitrogen yet when you switched to a formula with a proportionately higher amount of N with _less _coming from ammoniacal, you got a nitrogen deficiency? I'm not following .



> I wouldn't use grow fertilizers at all. Especially dyna-gro 7-9-5...2.0% ammoniacal nitrogen is crazy.


Maybe you should reconsider that?


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## Tiz I (May 2, 2013)

That is why I posted, you assume like I always did, to focus on N/P ratios, and that's not the whole story as I found out. The head chemist at Hydrodynamics Int. told me what was happening with the low ammoniacal nitrogen and said he was making a new formula for use with co2. That was years ago...they never have made anything new. The best quality I've ever seen is from dyna gro 3-12-6..I just lose too much yield. Mine foxtails and the foxtails are way more pronounced with dyna gro. But I've got 9 1/2 oz. off 1 plant with Ionic with a nitrogen deficiency. If I was not concerned with yield and wanted top quality...dyna gro all the way. Started growing with 3-12-6 in '87 used it for veg, flowering, at 1/4 strength for cloning too. Yes your buds look fantastic...but does that mean they wouldn't have been bigger or heavier with less ammonia? I'm not bashing you in anyway, I just know trying to use 7-9-5 through flowering will have a real negative effect on yield.


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## homebrewer (May 2, 2013)

Tiz I said:


> That is why I posted, you assume like I always did, to focus on N/P ratios, and that's not the whole story as I found out. The head chemist at Hydrodynamics Int. told me what was happening with the low ammoniacal nitrogen and said he was making a new formula for use with co2. That was years ago...they never have made anything new. The best quality I've ever seen is from dyna gro 3-12-6..I just lose too much yield. Mine foxtails and the foxtails are way more pronounced with dyna gro. But I've got 9 1/2 oz. off 1 plant with Ionic with a nitrogen deficiency. If I was not concerned with yield and wanted top quality...dyna gro all the way. Started growing with 3-12-6 in '87 used it for veg, flowering, at 1/4 strength for cloning too. Yes your buds look fantastic...but does that mean they wouldn't have been bigger or heavier with less ammonia? I'm not bashing you in anyway, I just know trying to use 7-9-5 through flowering will have a real negative effect on yield.


All I can say is that my experience differs from yours. Use what works best for you!


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## Don Draper (May 7, 2013)

I have a question about dyna-gro nutes, and you seem to be an authority on the subject.

I have read alot of comments regarding salt buildup and found a product called "Drip Clean" by house & garden, it seems to claim to be the solution to the salt build-up problem, and was wondering if you've had any experience or knowledge regarding that products effieciency, is it worth it? Would you say salt build up is a real problem that needs attention with dyna-gro nutes or is it just an exaggeration and not worth the cost to fix it?


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## homebrewer (May 7, 2013)

Don Draper said:


> I have a question about dyna-gro nutes, and you seem to be an authority on the subject.
> 
> I have read alot of comments regarding salt buildup and found a product called "Drip Clean" by house & garden, it seems to claim to be the solution to the salt build-up problem, and was wondering if you've had any experience or knowledge regarding that products effieciency, is it worth it? Would you say salt build up is a real problem that needs attention with dyna-gro nutes or is it just an exaggeration and not worth the cost to fix it?


DG is one of the cleanest plant foods I've ever used. Connoisseur was actually very clean and so was H&G's Aqua Flakes. GH on the other hand was a bit salty. So to answer your question, DG doesn't have a 'salt buildup issue' unless someone is just feeding too much, too often. 

Now I've never used _Drip Clean_ before but I think 'salt removal products' are a sham in general (Clearex, florakleen, etc.) as they don't seem to provide any benefit over leaching with tap water.


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## Don Draper (May 7, 2013)

Thank you!

What are your thoughts about Foliage pro/Bloom+Protekt combo vs Grow/Bloom+Protekt? Im still not 100% sure which one to buy. 
I've read that the user "uncle ben" claims the 3-1-2 formula is ideal for cannabis, what do you think? Is there a notable difference between the 2 combos?


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## homebrewer (May 7, 2013)

Don Draper said:


> Thank you!
> 
> What are your thoughts about Foliage pro/Bloom+Protekt combo vs Grow/Bloom+Protekt? Im still not 100% sure which one to buy.
> I've read that the user "uncle ben" claims the 3-1-2 formula is ideal for cannabis, what do you think? Is there a notable difference between the 2 combos?


I depends if you're in hydro or not. For container gardening with promix/dirt/coco, Foliage pro and Grow are bad-to-the-bone. I don't recommend bloom for container gardening but I don't think you can go wrong with either of the other two formulas. I'm wrapping up a test grow right now in promix; Grow vs Foliage Pro. All I can say is that it's very close and I didn't expect that.


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## Don Draper (May 7, 2013)

Im going hydro, I remember reading something about FP stopping stretch in veg, you know anything about that?


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## homebrewer (May 7, 2013)

Don Draper said:


> Im going hydro, I remember reading something about FP stopping stretch in veg, you know anything about that?


On the veg side in hydro, I can't tell a difference between grow and FP. I haven't flower with FP in hydro....yet .


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## Don Draper (May 7, 2013)

ok, thanks 
cant wait to hear how that goes!

How about using only one of the products all they way through? 

Either:
*Grow
*Bloom
*Foliage-Pro
(+only supplementing with pro-tekt)

Have you experimented some with this?
Would there be a sacrifice in yield or quality(or both) if it was done that way?

One more question; is a *higher Nitrogen* and *lower Phosphate* ratio needed for motherplants after clones/cuttings have been taken off of them(as in Foliage pro's 9-3-6 NPK), or is Grow just as good to use for this with its 7-9-5 NPK ratio?


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## joe macclennan (May 7, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> I'm running a test right now where I'm not using any of DG's _bloom_, just _Grow_ and a little _magpro_. I question how much P is actually needed.


how is this going? how many weeks in are you? dirt or hydro?


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## homebrewer (May 14, 2013)

Don Draper said:


> How about using only one of the products all they way through?
> 
> Either:
> *Grow
> ...


If you had to use only one, it's definitely grow or FP as 'bloom' would be awful in veg. 




> One more question; is a *higher Nitrogen* and *lower Phosphate* ratio needed for motherplants after clones/cuttings have been taken off of them(as in Foliage pro's 9-3-6 NPK), or is Grow just as good to use for this with its 7-9-5 NPK ratio


Grow or FP is fine.



joe macclennan said:


> how is this going? how many weeks in are you? dirt or hydro?


Hydro, just harvested. Just by the looks of things, it's worth exploring again.


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## joe macclennan (May 14, 2013)

no pics of plants while in flower?


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## homebrewer (May 14, 2013)

joe macclennan said:


> no pics of plants while in flower?


I'm doing two tests right now, one in hydro and one in promix. The 'promix test' is being journaled at a private forum. The hydro test is is not being photographed, really for no reason other than I'm busy with other things. One of which is a breeding project. I'm currently searching through some Kali Mist x AK47 plants right now looking for a solid male. I think I found one.


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## blazedapurp (May 18, 2013)

HB are u going 6 or 9 plants in this thread?


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## joe macclennan (May 18, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> The hydro test is is not being photographed, really for no reason other than I'm busy with other things. .



aren't we all. 
How long does snapping a few pics take? Seriously not trying to flame you here but when you claim that grow nutes are producing comparable results to bloom nutes pics are in order to back this up. 

No offense intended here HB I was really hoping to see some pics of your test.


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## blazedgeek (May 23, 2013)

Hey HB need some help.. Im in coco "dirt" im in bloom using bloom formula at 1 - 1.1 in week 3 of flower and noticing burnt tips and red petioles a sign of P def i think not because not really any light foliage.. Am i still feeding to strong my runoff ec matches whats going in or lower i feed everyday and some days if the ec goes up ill drop feeding down to .08 for a few days.. Thanks for the help and cant wait to see the results im sold on DG if i can just get the right feed goin


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## homebrewer (May 27, 2013)

joe macclennan said:


> aren't we all.
> How long does snapping a few pics take? Seriously not trying to flame you here *but when you claim that grow nutes are producing comparable results to bloom nutes pics are in order to back this up. *
> 
> No offense intended here HB I was really hoping to see some pics of your test.


No offense but I actually don't need to back up shit. Even if I say that such-and-such works 'better' than what you're currently doing, it'd be wise for you to 'test' that on your own to make sure it works for you, your strains and your environment. Good luck!




blazedgeek said:


> Hey HB need some help.. Im in coco "dirt" im in bloom using bloom formula at 1 - 1.1 in week 3 of flower and noticing burnt tips and red petioles a sign of P def i think not because not really any light foliage.. Am i still feeding to strong my runoff ec matches whats going in or lower i feed everyday and some days if the ec goes up ill drop feeding down to .08 for a few days.. Thanks for the help and cant wait to see the results im sold on DG if i can just get the right feed goin


Honestly, I'd ditch the _bloom_ and switch to _grow_ or _foliage pro_ for your bloom cycle. I'd also lower your EC to .7. It's hard to tell but I think that plant looks pretty good, don't over-think this, look at the health of the entire plant before making any elemental changes. But it's definitely safe to drop the bloom in coco.


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## chuck estevez (May 27, 2013)

I'm using foliage pro now and seeing spectacular results. Jacks 20-20-20 on the last run killed it. using the foliage pro at this point seems to have the edge, still a couple weeks from final results.


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## Nizza (May 27, 2013)

i like using the bloom mixed with veg


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## homebrewer (May 27, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> I'm using foliage pro now and seeing spectacular results. Jacks 20-20-20 on the last run killed it. using the foliage pro at this point seems to have the edge, still a couple weeks from final results.


Foliage pro in dirt/coco/promix is damn hard to beat.


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## blazedgeek (May 28, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> Foliage pro in dirt/coco/promix is damn hard to beat.


Wait wwwwwhat! Damn and i just picked up a new bottle of bloom. HB thanks for the reply and im dropping down to .7ec and im seeing 1.-1.2 in coco is hella hot! HB hows the results going with the foliage pro? Same recs on ec leves for veg and bloom? Why the switch a more complete nutrient profile?
i do also remember somewhere in one of these journals that the Dyna guy was saying gro and foliage can get you through flower and that bloom was just created to pacify the public thinking you needed high Phos values in flower...?
hey HB what about using the Mag pro as a booster during weeks 3-5 varying like when people use a PK boost? 
Its also crazy that .7 ec is more than enough here i was thinking 1.0 ec in coco was light but as soon as my runoff hits 1.0 ec i get leaf tip burn. It seems .7 is to light but is making sense i have been feeding to much and shows how strong Dyna gro is

Take it easy


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## homebrewer (May 28, 2013)

blazedgeek said:


> Wait wwwwwhat! Damn and i just picked up a new bottle of bloom. HB thanks for the reply and im dropping down to .7ec and im seeing 1.-1.2 in coco is hella hot! HB hows the results going with the foliage pro? Same recs on ec leves for veg and bloom? Why the switch a more complete nutrient profile?
> i do also remember somewhere in one of these journals that the Dyna guy was saying gro and foliage can get you through flower and that bloom was just created to pacify the public thinking you needed high Phos values in flower...?
> hey HB what about using the Mag pro as a booster during weeks 3-5 varying like when people use a PK boost?
> Its also crazy that .7 ec is more than enough here i was thinking 1.0 ec in coco was light but as soon as my runoff hits 1.0 ec i get leaf tip burn. It seems .7 is to light but is making sense i have been feeding to much and shows how strong Dyna gro is
> ...


I was mixing grow and bloom for my promix plants and found that 'grow only' worked best from start to finish. Foliage pro is a great option too from start to finish. I don't use magpro in the dirt, I'd venture to say that as long as you have fairly balanced N, P and K values, a PK booster is the last thing you need. I do like magpro in hydro though.


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## blazedgeek (May 28, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> I was mixing grow and bloom for my promix plants and found that 'grow only' worked best from start to finish. Foliage pro is a great option too from start to finish. I don't use magpro in the dirt, I'd venture to say that as long as you have fairly balanced N, P and K values, a PK booster is the last thing you need. I do like magpro in hydro though.



Thanks HB so Gro has more than enough, .7ec falls under 5 ml per gal for me which seems like it wouldnt be enough but Dyna gro is no joke on strenghth. thanks again for your imformative journals as you have turned me into a dyna user and have taught me a lot. Im going even lighter in feed than what i thought was already light at 1 ec

thanks 
BG


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## Oo S0uP oO (May 29, 2013)

HB, sorry ahead of time because Im sure its already in this thread somewhere but could you please give me a link to your foliage pro only grow I just wanna get some insight before I start my flood tables up and running. I really wanna get some great results out of this to blow some people away. Currently I use the grow,bloom and protekt with success (I still play around with additives I have laying around) I dont use the mag pro cause of the NPK values on it and if I wanted to add Mg I just add some epsom salts to my res The grow and bloom both seem to provide enough Ca by themselves (I never take it over 1000ppm with dyna gro) so... anyways thanks for the info if and when you can.~S0uP

Edit would also like a PM on the great white results if you have a chance as I was toying with adding ORCA in addition to my floralicious plus. Thanks again.


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## homebrewer (May 29, 2013)

Oo S0uP oO said:


> HB, sorry ahead of time because Im sure its already in this thread somewhere but could you please give me a link to your foliage pro only grow I just wanna get some insight before I start my flood tables up and running. I really wanna get some great results out of this to blow some people away. Currently I use the grow,bloom and protekt with success (I still play around with additives I have laying around) I dont use the mag pro cause of the NPK values on it and if I wanted to add Mg I just add some epsom salts to my res The grow and bloom both seem to provide enough Ca by themselves (I never take it over 1000ppm with dyna gro) so... anyways thanks for the info if and when you can.~S0uP
> 
> Edit would also like a PM on the great white results if you have a chance as I was toying with adding ORCA in addition to my floralicious plus. Thanks again.


My foliage pro test was at a private forum and it was in promix. As of now, grow, bloom and protekt are all that you need to kill it in hydro.


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## BudHound (May 30, 2013)

Gro Dan Dyna nut results! 
Lemon Larry on the left and Cotton Candy on right.


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## BudHound (May 30, 2013)

Homebrewer many thanks again for all the knowledge you have given us! I tried gro dan and had many success, but my concern was if it biodegrades easily? Trying to stay green! Read around that it does not. I have since switched to sunshine #4, but have not been able to get same results as with gro dan. Current setup is ebb and flow, 3gal smart pots, sunshine #4 without vermiculate as it is a recirculating botanicare table, PH 6.4-6.5. I only turn on the resvoir pumps when i start to notice dirt drying out. My feed is protek 2ml/gal, grow 1ml/gal, bloom 2ml/gal. I am tweaking it out still on how to adjust the FFW regimen. Any helpful input would be apprecaited as to what you may think. If memory serves me well you spoke in another topic that one can get away without water week if PPM's are kept at 350 or less? I'm using a .5 blue lab combo meter? Correct me if im wrong. I will post images later of this report on here to see how it turns out.


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## homebrewer (May 30, 2013)

BudHound said:


> Homebrewer many thanks again for all the knowledge you have given us! I tried gro dan and had many success, but my concern was if it biodegrades easily? Trying to stay green! Read around that it does not. I have since switched to sunshine #4, but have not been able to get same results as with gro dan. Current setup is ebb and flow, 3gal smart pots, sunshine #4 without vermiculate as it is a recirculating botanicare table, PH 6.4-6.5. I only turn on the resvoir pumps when i start to notice dirt drying out. My feed is protek 2ml/gal, grow 1ml/gal, bloom 2ml/gal. I am tweaking it out still on how to adjust the FFW regimen. Any helpful input would be apprecaited as to what you may think. If memory serves me well you spoke in another topic that one can get away without water week if PPM's are kept at 350 or less? I'm using a .5 blue lab combo meter? Correct me if im wrong. I will post images later of this report on here to see how it turns out.


I'm not a huge fan of bloom in promix.

As far as a feeding/watering schedule goes, I think you can go one of two ways. You can either feed higher less frequently or feed lower more often. The choice is yours, do what is easiest as both seem to get you to the same place in the end.


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## BudHound (Jun 6, 2013)

Cut out bloom as I started to notice nitro def even at 1ml per gal along with protek and bloom. I cut back bloom and just used 2-3ml protek and the rest grow to make up about 350ppm. I started to see vigorous compact bud growth within first week of switching cocktail nut mis. Hope this helps any dyna doubters! Here's an image. Still have about 4-6 weeks left as some are ogs and take longer to finish.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Jun 7, 2013)

BudHound said:


> View attachment 2678405View attachment 2678406
> Gro Dan Dyna nut results!
> Lemon Larry on the left and Cotton Candy on right.


you using the Bloom or Foliage Pro in bloom?


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## BudHound (Jun 9, 2013)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> you using the Bloom or Foliage Pro in bloom?


This harvest was grown using rockwool cubes. I did use bloom along with protek, grow and sometimes id throw in some magpro. I always kept EC at 1.2 and last two weeks I bring down EC to about .8 or so on a bluelab meter and week before harvest I flush with Hygrozyme (not needed, can get way with just water!)


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## joe macclennan (Jun 9, 2013)

been running gro for the first four weeks of flower along with 2ml of protekt and 2ml of magpro. Pretty happy with it so far. I am deff. getting a bit more stretch than with bloom nutes but far less leaf drop. 

Just got some foliage pro. Gonna give it a try. I like how it has a bit more nitrogen. Should give me a little faster growth in veg.


Thanks for the idea homebrewer.


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## joe macclennan (Jun 17, 2013)

So at what EC do you recommend running the foliage pro at in veg? running f&d hydroton.

straight ro water. 

Magpro or no?

I appreciate you sharing your experience with us.


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## homebrewer (Jun 17, 2013)

joe macclennan said:


> So at what EC do you recommend running the foliage pro at in veg? running f&d hydroton.
> 
> straight ro water.
> 
> ...


I just started experimenting with it in hydro and due to the higher amount of N, I've cut the EC back by 15%. So if you were using 'grow' at 1.0 EC, try .85EC with foliage pro. I'm still figuring some things out so if you have any input or discoveries, feel free to share. 

I am still using a dash of magpro but also scaled back by 15% or so.


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## djwimbo (Jun 17, 2013)

Please forgive me for not reading all of this, but I have a quick question, and a general answer would be acceptable. I'd PM you, but I feel the open part of the forum would benefit.

If we're talking Dyna Gro nutes, have you tried the Hi-N-Pro? I know you mentioned using the Grow more than anything, just curious if you have tested both, or if it's even worthwhile.


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## homebrewer (Jun 17, 2013)

djwimbo said:


> Please forgive me for not reading all of this, but I have a quick question, and a general answer would be acceptable. I'd PM you, but I feel the open part of the forum would benefit.
> 
> If we're talking Dyna Gro nutes, have you tried the Hi-N-Pro? I know you mentioned using the Grow more than anything, just curious if you have tested both, or if it's even worthwhile.


I've not messed with high N pro, not sure if I will since foliage pro's 9-3-6 isn't too far off from 10-5-5.


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## joe macclennan (Jun 17, 2013)

The only thing I can say with certainty is that I am really liking the results of running the 7-9-5 for the first 4 weeks of flower. I have been running a 30/70 mix of well water/ro that gets my ec to less than .4. I am going to go 100% ro starting next week. 

This last rez. change I mixed in 25% 7-9-5 into my second stage rez in flower and made the balance up with 3-12-6.Next rez. change I will prob. go 50/50 bloom/grow for rez 2. 

I have also been running 2ml/gallon magpro and 2ml/gallon protekt in flower and veg. Which I am suspecting is too much in relation to the foliage pro, and to a lesser extent the grow. 

I am showing what seems to be a zinc def. in veg now. I am not 100% on this though as the symptoms don't EXACTLY match the pics I have found online. It seems that no matter where you look deff. symptoms up they all use the same stock photos. 

This last rez. change I cut out the magpro entirely and cut my protekt in half in veg. I made the balance up with the 9-3-6. This was yesterday tho so I don't know if this was good or bad yet. 

I should add that I am just coming out of a major fungus gnat infestation and I caught some root aphids before they got out of control.
I got rid of the aphids with an imid drench in veg. about three weeks ago and have been drenching with gnatrol 2x a week since for the gnats so some root damage is present on the older plants that I am sure is causing some of the symptoms I am seeing. 

Some of the recently transplanted clones were also starting to show def. symptoms prior to my rez change yesterday though so I am wondering if using too much of the magpro was locking out zinc. As the magpro is super high in p. I am just guessing here tho. 


The gnats are damn near gone and I haven't seen an aphid in two weeks. I have some of the best roots I have seen busting out of the 10" netpots my moms are in and overall things are looking better than a month ago but I am still experimenting some in veg with the fol. pro. 

If the def. symptoms don't start clearing up in veg. I'm gonna go back to the 7-9-5 I think next time.

Anyways, sorry for the absurdly long post but that's my story.


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## inhaleindica (Jun 19, 2013)

joe macclennan said:


> The only thing I can say with certainty is that I am really liking the results of running the 7-9-5 for the first 4 weeks of flower. I have been running a 30/70 mix of well water/ro that gets my ec to less than .4. I am going to go 100% ro starting next week.
> 
> This last rez. change I mixed in 25% 7-9-5 into my second stage rez in flower and made the balance up with 3-12-6.Next rez. change I will prob. go 50/50 bloom/grow for rez 2.
> 
> ...


I too am experimenting with Foliage Pro in Veg only and I don't see any zinc def so far. I don't use Mag-pro at all so far, this is in Veg only. However, with FP I have to use a lot less protekt to balance the PH and little less FP than I would with grow since it burns my leaves a slight. Just like what HB said 15% less EC with FP should do the trick


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## homebrewer (Jun 19, 2013)

inhaleindica said:


> *I too am experimenting with Foliage Pro in Veg only and I don't see any zinc def so far.* I don't use Mag-pro at all so far, this is in Veg only. However, with FP I have to use a lot less protekt to balance the PH and little less FP than I would with grow since it burns my leaves a slight. Just like what HB said 15% less EC with FP should do the trick


I agree, use it properly and you'll be deficiency-free. Water plays a big role though as sometimes unbalanced water out of the tap can lead us to believe that something is wrong with our plant food.


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## joe macclennan (Jun 19, 2013)

Two days on fresh rez. foliage pro and around 1.2ml protekt/gallon, no magpro and no new deff. signs showing in veg.

Just the slightest bit of nitrogen abundance in flower showing at about week 3 where I am running grow7-9-5 with 2ml magpro and 2ml protekt. Plants are very dark. Almost a bit blue. Could be an early P deff. but I am not sure. All in all they look very Healthy though. I think I may mix a little bit of bloom in next time. Maybe 25% or so to try and fix what looks to be the P deff. Also gonna cut back the magpro to 1ml/gallon. 

So it appears I was correct in thinking I was adding too much magpro in veg. Causing what looked to be a zinc deff. 

I Am gonna have to mix in 10% well water this rez change tho cuz my new ro filter won't be here in time and I cannot make enough purified water to go 100% at this time. 

I just can't say enough how pleased I am with the 7-9-5 for first month of flower. Virtually no nitro deff showing yet still good flower development. 

+ rep to ya HB for the great thread.

EDIT: mixing a fresh rez. for my flowering moms now.

50 gallons total 10 wellwater/40 ro
7 oz grow7-9-5
5 oz bloom 3-12-6
2 oz protekt 
1 oz magpro

final ec 1.2

10 inch netpots 1x flood/day
co2 enriched room. 

we'll see


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## Alfonso (Jun 25, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> That quote from page 63 is a pretty good place to start for veg. Moving into flower, I bump the EC just over 1.0-1.1 and feed with about 80% bloom and 20% grow. That small amount of grow seems to be enough to keep the plants green in my environment. I pretty much keep protekt where it was in veg moving into flower and also add some magpro. Since you're using tap water, magpro might not be necessary for you.
> 
> FWIW, I like the rockwool blocks from B'cuzz a little better than grodan cubes. They're both good products but the grodan cubes hold water longer than I'd like them too as they're a little more dense.


ive been searching your threads. Not sure if I missed this or not but I'm starting DIY ebb n flo using dyna gro grow , bloom, proteck. Can you help me out on a feeding schedule? I know it varies with strain to strain just need some base number to go off of and if I c it's on the high side ill make adjustments. My clones were started on Rockwell cubes and are now in 1 gal pots. Using tap water starting at 200ppm 8.0 ph. Currently under fluorescent for 2 week veg then to flower under 600whps. Currently top feeding as I'm not sure how many gal of a Rez I need. I was going to use a 30 gal barrel but it limits my height availability. Would I be ok with say a 20 gal Rubbermaid from homedepot?

what I mean for feeding schedule is for all stages of growth say for newly cut clones do u feed any or just plain phd water?
Rooted clones going into veg. Would I be okay starting at around 400ppm when my tap starts at 200? And progress from there? The ratio between grow/protect? No bloom?
in flower considering a two week veg I should be at around 500ppm or is that too high? 8-10week flower time. What should I be at around week 8? 900ppm? What ratio of bloom/grow/protect? Protect all the way through flower? I remember reading that you said that even though your plants aren't burning at say 1500ppm but they'll be much better off at 1000ppm( just an example) I want to feed as little as possible without seeing any deficiencies. Thank you for all your help


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## homebrewer (Jun 25, 2013)

Alfonso said:


> ive been searching your threads. Not sure if I missed this or not but I'm starting DIY ebb n flo using dyna gro grow , bloom, proteck. Can you help me out on a feeding schedule? I know it varies with strain to strain just need some base number to go off of and if I c it's on the high side ill make adjustments. My clones were started on Rockwell cubes and are now in 1 gal pots. Using tap water starting at 200ppm 8.0 ph. Currently under fluorescent for 2 week veg then to flower under 600whps. Currently top feeding as I'm not sure how many gal of a Rez I need. I was going to use a 30 gal barrel but it limits my height availability. *Would I be ok with say a 20 gal Rubbermaid from homedepot?*


Maybe. The size of your res is sort of dependent on the size of your flood table and the number of plants you're running. 



> what I mean for feeding schedule is for all stages of growth say for newly cut clones do u feed any or just plain phd water?
> Rooted clones going into veg. Would I be okay starting at around 400ppm when my tap starts at 200? And progress from there? The ratio between grow/protect? No bloom?
> in flower considering a two week veg I should be at around 500ppm or is that too high? 8-10week flower time. What should I be at around week 8? 900ppm? What ratio of bloom/grow/protect? Protect all the way through flower? I remember reading that you said that even though your plants aren't burning at say 1500ppm but they'll be much better off at 1000ppm( just an example) I want to feed as little as possible without seeing any deficiencies. Thank you for all your help


The quote you quoted in your post is my 'schedule' for flower. Cut that back to .7 EC for veg and don't use bloom. Simple stuff!


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## Lucius Vorenus (Jun 27, 2013)

So you guys are using the Foliage Pro for flower rather than the actual Bloom formula?


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## chuck estevez (Jun 27, 2013)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> So you guys are using the Foliage Pro for flower rather than the actual Bloom formula?


 best grows ever since ditching everything but the foliage pro. I don't even really p.h anymore. The only thing I have to worry about now is the little effers that show up every summer.


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## homebrewer (Jun 27, 2013)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> So you guys are using the Foliage Pro for flower rather than the actual Bloom formula?


I'm currently testing Foliage Pro in hydro but in _promix_, both Grow and Foliage pro are vastly superior to Bloom. Thus far, combos of Grow and Bloom in hydro work best for me, that could change soon though.


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## joe macclennan (Jun 27, 2013)

so far I like 25/75 bloom/grow for first 4 wks of flower and the exact opposite for last 4 weeks. 1/2ml/gallon magpro throughout flower and 1ml/gallon protekt.final ec1.1 w/c02

I am trying a 50/50 blend of gro/fol.pro for veg. and 1ml/gallon protekt. no magpro final ec.9


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## Lucius Vorenus (Jun 28, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> best grows ever since ditching everything but the foliage pro. I don't even really p.h anymore. The only thing I have to worry about now is the little effers that show up every summer.


Not sure id want that much nitrogen in my bloom nute.


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## bluefoodie (Jun 28, 2013)

This is confusing...I read up to page 16 of this thread and jumped to the end here. Back then homebrewer you were saying a ratio of 1-3-2 for flower is good and thought that AN lagged because of high N and not enough P. That was 2 years ago. Now you're saying Foliage Pro is superior to Bloom (at least in Promix), and others are saying the same thing about FP.

FP is almost the complete opposite of Bloom in terms of N-P, so I'm surprised it does well in flower. What happened? High P in flower is the outdated way of thinking now?

BTW thanks HB for all your tests. I'm still a noob getting a feel for all the different nutrients out there and I've learned a lot from you already. Nice to know you're always refining your approach.


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## homebrewer (Jun 28, 2013)

bluefoodie said:


> This is confusing...I read up to page 16 of this thread and jumped to the end here. Back then homebrewer you were saying a ratio of 1-3-2 for flower is good and thought that AN lagged because of high N and not enough P. That was 2 years ago. Now you're saying Foliage Pro is superior to Bloom (at least in Promix), and others are saying the same thing about FP.
> 
> FP is almost the complete opposite of Bloom in terms of N-P, so I'm surprised it does well in flower. What happened? High P in flower is the outdated way of thinking now?
> 
> BTW thanks HB for all your tests. I'm still a noob getting a feel for all the different nutrients out there and I've learned a lot from you already. Nice to know you're always refining your approach.


Hydro and 'dirt' seem to behave differently as my promix girls need more N to stay green as compared to my plants in hydro. Yes, a couple years ago I was saying 1-3-2 was 'ideal' for hydro and to this date, I've not found a ratio that surpasses the results I get when feeding around a 1-3-2. But just because that ratio 'worked' for me back then doesn't mean it's the best approach and I'm always tweaking what I do to find the BEST way to do things. I'm in the middle of some stuff right now for hydro which should clear some things up.

Connoisseur's higher amount of N wasn't the issue, I believe it's the cheap ingredients they used to supply nitrogen; *urea *and *other water soluble nitrogen. *It probably does OK in dirt/coco/promix but then again, I'd bet my first born on it still being expensive, overly-complicated to use, and under-preforming as compared to professional-grade plant foods with decades more history like Jacks or DynaGro. In my professional opinion, ditch any plant food with a colorful label and a high price tag. Those foods are made for kids who have never gardened before.


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## bluefoodie (Jun 30, 2013)

Sounds good HB, looking forward to those results! Another question...do I need to add Mag-Pro or Pro-Tekt to regular waterings (with RO water)?


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## drekoushranada (Jul 5, 2013)

The grow formula seems to be a lot more "potent" than the bloom formula. I am going to have to give the Foliage Pro a try for sure.


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## trophy1 (Jul 7, 2013)

drekoushranada said:


> The grow formula seems to be a lot more "potent" than the bloom formula. I am going to have to give the Foliage Pro a try for sure.


I agree with you, the Grow makes a good base nutrient for flower. It is not good for veg, if you want to run dyna-gro then go with something else for veg, maybe the foilage pro. I didn't get to try foilage pro, my local shop only carries the grow and the bloom. I had to supplement the grow with a high nitrogen nute early in flower to prevent early yellowing.

In the last part of flower I used a bloom/ grow mix, slowly weaning off the grow.

My overall impression was dyna-gro can be a soild nute program but wasn;t blown away by it, I have switched back to Sensi Grow and Bloom, I felt I had better results with Sensi.

I rate myself at the intermediate level as far as grow skills are concerned, and was not being super picky about keeping stats, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. 

Price wise DG is definitely very well priced, but I see Sensi as fairly priced also, I don't see Connoisseur as being worth the extra money. I'm not big on extra enhancers, I use cal-mag and overdrive/Big Bud. I usually don't add big bud till a few weeks in and Overdrive the last couple weeks before the final week when I use just a light bloom solution (400 ppm) to finish.


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## joe macclennan (Jul 7, 2013)

Actually I am liking the gro. better than the fol. pro in hydro.


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## Alfonso (Jul 9, 2013)

I'm currently around 2 weeks into veg. Using ro water bought from store. 7.2 [email protected] ppm. 20 gal Rez. I first add protect at. 2 ml/gal mix then add enough dyna gro to reach [email protected] scale I believe around 2 to 3 ml/gal. Then ph to 5.5. I am growing in grow rocks 1 gal containers. Flood 4 x day for 15 min. (10min pump on 5min drain) I'm starting to have some deficiencies? Im not too experienced but I believe it might be calcium or magnesium def. would it be due to not using mag pro?


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## joe macclennan (Jul 10, 2013)

pictures plz


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## Alfonso (Jul 10, 2013)

Plz help


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## homebrewer (Jul 11, 2013)

Alfonso said:


> View attachment 2732439View attachment 2732440View attachment 2732441View attachment 2732443View attachment 2732444View attachment 2732445Plz help


Your new growth looks good whereas your old growth looks like the result of nutrient burn. Keep your mix the same though I'd suggest cutting back the grow for a final ppm of 350 (.5 scale) and I'd also increase your pH to the 5.8 - 6.0 range.


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## Alfonso (Jul 11, 2013)

That's good news. How long does it take for nute burn to show? Because it seems like its progressing slowly. And the Rez has mainly stayed the same. But it's time for a Rez change. So no need for mag pro at this time or a 70/30 mix of ro water and tap water?keep everything the same but lower my ppm and higher ph a bit.


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## joe macclennan (Jul 11, 2013)

I don't use magpro until flower and then only like .5ml. 

5.5 ph is pretty low. 5.8 is where ya want to be. I run 5.7-5.9. 

what is your starting ppm before nutes with the 70/30 water mixture?


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## chuck estevez (Jul 11, 2013)

Alfonso said:


> I'm currently around 2 weeks into veg. Using ro water bought from store. 7.2 [email protected] ppm. 20 gal Rez. I first add protect at. 2 ml/gal mix then add enough dyna gro to reach [email protected] scale I believe around 2 to 3 ml/gal. Then ph to 5.5. I am growing in grow rocks 1 gal containers. Flood 4 x day for 15 min. (10min pump on 5min drain) I'm starting to have some deficiencies? Im not too experienced but I believe it might be calcium or magnesium def. would it be due to not using mag pro?


 you need to add some kind of cal-mag when using r/o water


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## joe macclennan (Jul 11, 2013)

He's using 30% tap


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## homebrewer (Jul 11, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> you need to add some kind of cal-mag when using r/o water


I would disagree with this. I just sent out a few reservoir samples for analysis which were taken on different days and at the end of the week there was plenty of cal and mag left for the plants. I should add that this res had no additional calcium or magnesium outside of what the base nutes supplied.


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## Alfonso (Jul 11, 2013)

So no mag pro or cal mag? I will most definitely higher my ph and feed slightly less. 14 gal ro [email protected] +6 gal [email protected]= 20gal @150ppm. Another ? For u pros. Do u add any h2o2 or anything similar to keep Rez clean?


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## homebrewer (Jul 11, 2013)

Alfonso said:


> So no mag pro or cal mag? I will most definitely higher my ph and feed slightly less. 14 gal ro [email protected] +6 gal [email protected]= 20gal @150ppm. Another ? For u pros. Do u add any h2o2 or anything similar to keep Rez clean?


Why use any tap water at all? Your water sucks, it's similar to mine which is why I use RO.


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## Alfonso (Jul 11, 2013)

I did first week all ro water and I felt like the edges of the leaves were curling up and slightly yellow. That's why I thaught it was a magnesium def. switched to 70/30. New growth seemed better. But it looks like those burnt spots on the leaves were spreading to other old fan leaves. Which brings me to here. So dynagro grow has enough magnesium and calcium to run with ro water alone and not see any def?


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## homebrewer (Jul 11, 2013)

Alfonso said:


> I did first week all ro water and I felt like the edges of the leaves were curling up and slightly yellow. That's why I thaught it was a magnesium def. switched to 70/30. New growth seemed better. But it looks like those burnt spots on the leaves were spreading to other old fan leaves. Which brings me to here.* So dynagro grow has enough magnesium and calcium to run with ro water alone and not see any def?*


Absolutely. Fix your pH and EC first and report back in a week or two.


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## Alfonso (Jul 20, 2013)

It's been a week now new growth good. But the deficiency is spreading. Slowly. Ph at [email protected] 350ppm(.5) . 
After 3 week veg i topped them at node 8 to practice cloning on my homemade ez cloner. 
Lik going to give them 2 days to recover and then flip to 12/12. My question is I got the mag pro so no need for mixing water. From now on 19 gal ro water. But at what dosage do I add protect/mag pro/gro/bloom for the first week of flower. Total ppms for the upcoming weeks. No hydrogen peroxide or bleach? Keep floods at 4 x day for 15 min?thats before topping
That's after topping
That's my clones. Any and all info/advise is highly appreciated.


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## chuck estevez (Jul 20, 2013)

_I kinda disagree about dyna having enough cal-mag to support R/o water. My plants are MUCH healthier when using cal-mag than without._


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## joe macclennan (Jul 20, 2013)

i've found so far that in veg. magpro is not necessary. 

in flower I am using just over half a ml/gallon

running 20/80 ww/ro

lots of calcium and iron in my ww. 

I did not like the fol. pro in hydro for veg. Got a lot of weird ducksfooting and all around odd growth. I am mixing in half ml/gallon of it now just to use it up more than anything. balance of nute mix made up of gro.


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## joe macclennan (Jul 20, 2013)

Alfonso said:


> It's been a week now new growth good. But the deficiency is spreading. Slowly. Ph at [email protected] 350ppm(.5) View attachment 2743982.
> After 3 week veg i topped them at node 8 to practice cloning on my homemade ez cloner.
> Lik going to give them 2 days to recover and then flip to 12/12. My question is I got the mag pro so no need for mixing water. From now on 19 gal ro water. But at what dosage do I add protect/mag pro/gro/bloom for the first week of flower. Total ppms for the upcoming weeks. No hydrogen peroxide or bleach? Keep floods at 4 x day for 15 min?View attachment 2743987thats before topping
> View attachment 2743988That's after topping
> View attachment 2744008That's my clones. Any and all info/advise is highly appreciated.


they look pretty droopy to me. What size are those pots? What kind of medium you using? It kinda looks like some sorta rock but not that I am familiar with.

i only flood up to 2x a day and that is in 6" pots. Sometimes only1x a day.


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## Alfonso (Jul 20, 2013)

1 gal pots grown in grow rocks. (Lava rocks) should I cut back to less floods a day?


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## joe macclennan (Jul 20, 2013)

i would for sure in 1 gallon pots. I run 10 inch netpots w/hydroton for my moms which are fairly close to the same size as yours and 1x aday is more than enough. Even when they get really big 1x is enough. the only time I need to flood 2x is when my room temps exceed 80f or if I put a strong fan right on em. 

Try it and see.


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## LocknessMD (Jul 22, 2013)

Great thread HB, subbed. First time grower here and am using "Grow"+ "Bloom" for food. My chicks are at 37 days and just gave them their first 50/50 feed of grow+bloom (1/4tsp+1/4tsp). I plan starting my first flower in about a week or so 



GL man


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## homebrewer (Jul 22, 2013)

LocknessMD said:


> Great thread HB, subbed. First time grower here and am using "Grow"+ "Bloom" for food. My chicks are at 37 days and just gave them their first 50/50 feed of grow+bloom (1/4tsp+1/4tsp). I plan starting my first flower in about a week or so
> 
> View attachment 2745697
> 
> GL man


FWIW, I don't use 'bloom' when growing in promix/dirt/coco.


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## Tempe420 (Aug 7, 2013)

jamesking said:


> Actually, I have about 12 grows under my belt. I started by babysitting a friend's grow from start to end for about 6 runs and it was great. My last run with him yielded about 2.3 lbs/light. It was when I went on my own that everything fell apart.


Link to this grow?


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## Tempe420 (Aug 7, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> FWIW, I don't use 'bloom' when growing in promix/dirt/coco.


so in a Sunshine advanced (peat/coco) would you just use the Foliage Pro?


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## chuck estevez (Aug 7, 2013)

Tempe420 said:


> so in a Sunshine advanced (peat/coco) would you just use the Foliage Pro?


 That's the way I have been running it, and I am absolutely killing it. Best plants in years and yields are averaging a qp per plant.


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## Tempe420 (Aug 7, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> That's the way I have been running it, and I am absolutely killing it. Best plants in years and yields are averaging a qp per plant.


Grow journal somewhere?


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## chuck estevez (Aug 7, 2013)

Tempe420 said:


> Grow journal somewhere?


 No journals and I don't post pics. You never know who is looking.


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## homebrewer (Aug 7, 2013)

Tempe420 said:


> so in a Sunshine advanced (peat/coco) would you just use the Foliage Pro?


Foliage Pro kills it in promix but any 1-1-1 balanced formula will do really well too.


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## Tempe420 (Aug 7, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> Foliage Pro kills it in promix but any 1-1-1 balanced formula will do really well too.


Was thinking about giving Jacks Classic 20-20-20 a shot in Sunshine Advanced #4 which is Coco and PEat but then also considering trying the Foliage Pro as well.


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## Imaulle (Aug 25, 2013)

I'm about to do Foliage Pro in Coco. With some new clones should I start out at 1 ml per gallon every other watering? And do I need to worry about pH? I'll be using RO water and I have the mag pro, pro tekt, and KLN too.


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## homebrewer (Aug 25, 2013)

Imaulle said:


> I'm about to do Foliage Pro in Coco. With some new clones should I start out at 1 ml per gallon every other watering? And do I need to worry about pH? I'll be using RO water and I have the mag pro, pro tekt, and KLN too.


1ml/gal is definitely safe. I'd recommend balancing the pH of your water with protekt before you water your plants. So maybe you need 1/2ml/gal protekt? Experiment. Magpro isn't needed and I only use KLN for rooting purposes.


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## anhtwan (Sep 17, 2013)

HB..I don't why people got negative thing to say, when someone like you to taken the time to share your knowledge and experience with people. Keep do what you are doing...You kool man.


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## BudHound (Sep 26, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> Generally speaking, you need a more complete plant food for hydro than dirt. I think the veg+bloom is 'complete enough' to work in hydro and I think it would do ok in dirt too, I just question some of those mineral values. I'd like to see it in action.


https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/veg-bloom-1-part-powder-in-socal-tap.44489/


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## BudHound (Sep 26, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> No enzyme products here, I just knock the dirt off the roots and reuse the dirt. I don't think I'm going to push a batch of dirt more than two rounds but we'll see. Maybe there is a way to process the dirt (leaching, soaking, washing, or whatever) so that it can keep being used over and over. I'm all ears if someone has experimented. An important thing to note is that the dirt now has a mineral content to it so do not feed as frequently during its second use. Read the plant and you should be just fine.


Perhaps try some caps and bennies? Here's link. I'm currently using them in promix bx. https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/testimonials-for-caps-bennies.46603/
someone on forum reuses his soil several times applying caps and bennies and has good results.


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## homebrewer (Sep 26, 2013)

BudHound said:


> Perhaps try some caps and bennies? Here's link. I'm currently using them in promix bx. https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/testimonials-for-caps-bennies.46603/
> someone on forum reuses his soil several times applying caps and bennies and has good results.


I had pest issues when I reused promix so I stopped reusing it. If only I had a larger oven.


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## BudHound (Sep 26, 2013)

What kind of pests? I def wont be reusing more than 2-3 times. I used caps and bennies for controlling fungus gnats and it did wonders! Within 12 hours it killed larvae by creating a white fungi barrier on them, adults didnt want to stick around in medium much. Larvae basicically decomposed in rockwool. I posted images on thcfarm forum. It can also be used against root aphids. To each there own. Just sharing my experience with it. Always good to share what works.


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## homebrewer (Sep 26, 2013)

I had a mite outbreak and recycling the soil didn't seem to help matters at all. Like I said, if I could sterilize my dirt between runs, I'd be all about reusing dirt.


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## BudHound (Sep 27, 2013)

Sucks to here about mite problems. I been battling those critters all summer using stylet oil. Hopefully this run will treat me much better considering summer heat waves are over. I'll be giving the promix a shot with protek/grow/ caps and bennies see if I can push 3 runs with reused promix. Wish me luck! &#55357;&#56849;


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## greenbox88 (Sep 30, 2013)

@Homebrewer (since I'm not able to pm yet.) =(

I'm a new grower and started with dyna-gro, week 1 in flower (EC @ 1.2). Ebb&Flo Bucket system and pH @5.8-5.9

All my leaves are green, however looking through all your pictures it seems like all your petiole are lime green in color. But mine's are pinkish purple. Is this a sign I need add grow into the bloom mix?

Any advance how to use to the Dyna Gro line for a newbie?

Thanks in advance.


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## homebrewer (Sep 30, 2013)

greenbox88 said:


> @Homebrewer (since I'm not able to pm yet.) =(
> 
> I'm a new grower and started with dyna-gro, week 1 in flower (EC @ 1.2). Ebb&Flo Bucket system and pH @5.8-5.9
> 
> ...


I would not recommend using only bloom during flower. A 50/50 mix of grow and bloom during flower at your feeding levels is a surefire home run.


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## Dboi87 (Sep 30, 2013)

I've got foliage pro and bloom. Trying out foliage pro and bloom for the first time. Any advice on how much to use and if I should mix the two ?


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## homebrewer (Sep 30, 2013)

Dboi87 said:


> I've got foliage pro and bloom. Trying out foliage pro and bloom for the first time. Any advice on how much to use and if I should mix the two ?


Drop the bloom if you're in promix, try 50/50 if in hydro.


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## Dboi87 (Sep 30, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> Drop the bloom if you're in promix, try 50/50 if in hydro.


Thanks I appreciate the feedback


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## greenbox88 (Oct 1, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> I would not recommend using only bloom during flower. A 50/50 mix of grow and bloom during flower at your feeding levels is a surefire home run.


HB,

Would you suggest doing 1/2 and 1/2 by measurement via PPM allocation or just same ml/gal?

Thanks in advance.


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## homebrewer (Oct 1, 2013)

greenbox88 said:


> HB,
> 
> Would you suggest doing 1/2 and 1/2 by measurement via PPM allocation or just same ml/gal?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Personally I'd go by ppm but that would be just a starting point for future tweaks.


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## joe macclennan (Oct 17, 2013)

why on earth people feel they need to spend more money to produce the same is beyond me.


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## chuck estevez (Oct 17, 2013)

AGuyinCA said:


> _post removed_


 you may not be big mike, but you definitely work for AN or some one in the industry.


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## homebrewer (Oct 17, 2013)

joe macclennan said:


> why on earth people feel they need to spend more money to produce the same is beyond me.


It's not just about money, it's the convenience of using something simple like DG or Jacks. When I used to run Botanicare's Pure Blend in the dirt and GH in hydro along with additives for each, I was ALWAYS making trips to the grow store. No matter how much I'd try to plan ahead and buy things that would be running out soon, I'd always miscalculate something and be back at the store two weeks later. These days, planning ahead means I buy two gallons of DG at a time and I'm set for 8 months on plant food. Furthermore, mixing up a res or a few gallons of food for my dirt girls takes no time at all. I honestly don't understand why people insist on complicating this otherwise easy process with those lines of a dozen kiddie bottles.


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## joe macclennan (Oct 17, 2013)

Man, you hit the nail on the head there. I was always back at the store when running botanicare too lol. 120 mile round trip.....that sucks.


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## *Vegeta (Oct 21, 2013)

Hi Homebrewer

Im gonna start a new grow and I'll use Dyna-gro nutrients.. 2 plants, 250w hps in a 80cm x 80cm x 160cm tent, DWC with two 5gal buckets with air pump and air stone.

Dyna-grow Dyna-protekt and Botanicare-CalMag for veg and dyna-grow, dyna-bloom, dyna-protekt and Botanicare-CalMag for flora. I also will use a little bit of Nutrilife-H2O2 in veg and flora.

You said before that the dyna grow Ph flutuation is almost zero. I'm wondering if I can let the reservoir 2 days without checking ph and without putting more plain water. Because sometimes I go through a two day trip and got no one to take care of my ladies.. You think its ok?

thank you! and sorry my poor english


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## homebrewer (Oct 21, 2013)

*Vegeta said:


> Hi Homebrewer
> 
> Im gonna start a new grow and I'll use Dyna-gro nutrients.. 2 plants, 250w hps in a 80cm x 80cm x 160cm tent, DWC with two 5gal buckets with air pump and air stone.
> 
> ...


You don't need the calmag and if you use too much you'll screw up your grow. Use at your own risk.

Your pH stability depends on many things. Res size, plant size, RO vs tap water, feeding levels, etc. If you do things correctly, DG should be nice and stable for you. If you leave for a few days and come back to a pH that's not optimal, it's not that big of a deal.


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## *Vegeta (Oct 21, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> You don't need the calmag and if you use too much you'll screw up your grow. Use at your own risk.
> 
> Your pH stability depends on many things. Res size, plant size, RO vs tap water, feeding levels, etc. If you do things correctly, DG should be nice and stable for you. If you leave for a few days and come back to a pH that's not optimal, it's not that big of a deal.


I live in Brazil, Rio de Janeiro to be exactly. Our tap water here is 67 ppm on .5 scale, comparing with others tap water i think is pretty good, but some growers from here say that our water have too much chlorine, im gonna use tap water but i will let the 5 galon bucket full o water one day long to evaporate the chlorine. Or I can use water from the filter that we drink here.. the water that comes out from the filter is 55 ppm still have chlorine but much less ..My big worry is about not complete the reservoir with plain water everyday, Rio de Janeiro is too hot on summer time and the water evaporates fast..

Thank you for the fast respond and for the good information on your threads!


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## kool cat (Oct 23, 2013)

Have you every herd of the original Dyno- Grow 3 part nut system. It was 15-19-10? That's What I use, From the early 80'S. Just asking?


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## homebrewer (Oct 23, 2013)

kool cat said:


> Have you every herd of the original Dyno- Grow 3 part nut system. It was 15-19-10? That's What I use, From the early 80'S. Just asking?


I heard they started with a 3 part years ago, then worked it down to a 2 part, now they've managed to jam all the elements into _one_ bottle. Are those bottles still holding up after all these years?


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## kool cat (Oct 24, 2013)

Yes homebrewer, Just got done finishing up a free seed Dino Fem White widow auto. Sprayed bottom 2 branchs with colloidal silver to turn them male,an crossed it back to inself to make female seeds. now have over 40 seeds,for next year. I called Dyna Grow and they wanted to buy the 3 part mix. Nope I am keeping it, still work wonders for me.


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## Lysemith, Lowkey (Oct 24, 2013)

Hey homebrewer kick ass job through and through! this question isn't really pertinent to dyna-gro, but do you keep your brewing buckets with your ladies? how much/what do you brew? and have you ever brewed with cannabis?
I love the dyna gro, bought some a couple years ago to teach myself hydro, and still have it  It is truly awesome to see this level of production.


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## homebrewer (Oct 24, 2013)

Lysemith said:


> Hey homebrewer kick ass job through and through! this question isn't really pertinent to dyna-gro, but do you keep your brewing buckets with your ladies? how much/what do you brew? and have you ever brewed with cannabis?
> I love the dyna gro, bought some a couple years ago to teach myself hydro, and still have it  It is truly awesome to see this level of production.


I don't keep anything brewing related anywhere near my ladies as sanitation is half of the equation when it comes to brewing great beer. The other half is a temperature controlled ferment....and pitching the right amount of yeast but I digress. 

I brew everything from German Lagers to American and Belgian ales and I brew enough to always have maybe 5 different beers around my place. 

I once 'dry hopped' with cannabis. Those beers would get you lit but it's not the most efficient use of herb, IMO.


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## joe macclennan (Oct 24, 2013)

I've never tried brewing but used to be somewhat of an amateur vintner. It used to be common for me to have 20-30 gallons of different wines fermenting/clearing at a time.


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## Lysemith, Lowkey (Oct 24, 2013)

ever thought of piping your CO2 from your brew room to your grow room? Ive done the 'dry hop' with cannabis on top of some mead, and came to the same conclusion. And I absolutely love how fine tuned your methods of operation are. Quite zen, but I digress.


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## Lysemith, Lowkey (Oct 24, 2013)

while it may not be a limiting factor, it could marginally increase yields, especially if your flower room is in the basement. Just some ideas to kick around, I really love the synergy between hops fermenting, and cannabis growing.
So I gather you use a temp control fridge with about 30 gal at a time? do you do lagers a whole lot?


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 24, 2013)

Don't feed the trolls guys, their posts will be removed shortly. 

In other news, DG is _still_ killing it...

Russian Mist (AK47 x Kali Mist):


----------



## weedemart (Oct 24, 2013)

JonnyAppleSeed420 said:


> removed


I would you to show me one part liquid nutes as ph stable,as complete,as concentrated and as cheap as dynagro. please. and im not more a fanboy of DG than GH or AN or any other nutrients brands FYI


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 24, 2013)

weedemart said:


> I would you to show me one part liquid nutes as ph stable,as complete,as concentrated and as cheap as dynagro. please. and im not more a fanboy of DG than GH or AN or any other nutrients brands FYI


Trolls do not have permission to post in this journal so while he may answer your question with some generalized newb BS with no science or data to back up his 'answer', he wont be doing it in this thread .


----------



## weedemart (Oct 25, 2013)

anyway I doubt he could show me something, there's no product in liquid form that compete with dynagro. every potable nutrients are in 2 parts or dry one part.


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 25, 2013)

weedemart said:


> anyway I doubt he could show me something, there's no product in liquid form that compete with dynagro. every potable nutrients are in 2 parts or dry one part.


That's why I recommend DG as much as I do. All these clowns on all these different forums LOVE to make this so complicated with dashes of this and drops of that while the rest of us are crushing it with 'feeding schedules' so simple even a caveman could do it .


----------



## weedemart (Oct 25, 2013)

true lol. most of them dont even know what they feeding and what it do, they think they are buying buds in bottle. mmmmmmmmmmmm kushie kush must be da nutes


----------



## Lysemith, Lowkey (Oct 25, 2013)

i can testify to being part neandertal.


----------



## kool cat (Oct 25, 2013)

Just thought you mite be interested,


----------



## kool cat (Oct 25, 2013)

And the results,


----------



## ozric420 (Oct 26, 2013)

well I used Advanced nutes for 3 years...... then I woke up and switched to DG...... thanks HB ....


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 26, 2013)

ozric420 said:


> well I used Advanced nutes for 3 years...... then I woke up and switched to DG...... thanks HB ....


Even switching from GH, I noticed a cost savings, fewer trips to the grow store, stable pH, and more consistent results across my entire garden (promix and hydro). AN is more complicated and spendy than GH, what sorts of things have you noticed since the switch?


----------



## Jiraya (Oct 26, 2013)

Hi Homebrewer!

Can you help me here?

Im starting a new DWC grow (my first DWC grow ever) with Dyna-gro nutrients in a 5 gallons bucket
I got :

Dyna-grow
Dyna-bloom
Dyna-Protekt
Nutrilife-H2O2 (for the roots)

My water is from the filter (52ppm) dont know if is a RO filter. Its just a common filter in the kitchen.


You think it can be a good water !?

Can you help me with how much nutes to put and when to start feeding?


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 27, 2013)

Jiraya said:


> Hi Homebrewer!
> 
> Can you help me here?
> 
> ...


This thread should help you get started.


----------



## Jiraya (Oct 28, 2013)

I have been reading this thread and it helped me a lot.

Thank you for share your experiences... sure helps a lot of people!


These nutrients can be harmful to health in long-term?

have you ever used organic nutrients?


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 28, 2013)

Jiraya said:


> These nutrients can be harmful to health in long-term?


Maybe if you drank them.



> have you ever used organic nutrients?


Yes, they're expensive, inconsistent, and I would not recommend their use in hydro.


----------



## joe macclennan (Oct 28, 2013)

...........heh


----------



## weedemart (Oct 28, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> Maybe if you drank them.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they're expensive, inconsistent, and I would not recommend their use in hydro.


I agree with you that put organic in rootzone is a bad idea in hydro but you can use them as foliar additive


----------



## ozric420 (Oct 28, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> Even switching from GH, I noticed a cost savings, fewer trips to the grow store, stable pH, and more consistent results across my entire garden (promix and hydro). AN is more complicated and spendy than GH, what sorts of things have you noticed since the switch?


 Well besides cost savings, plants seem to do just fine... my ph is more stable , and I have seen no difference in yield and taste vs AN ... so a word to the newbies ...don't believe everything you read on a manufacturers website...AN does work but I feel DG is easier to use. and it has made my life as a grower much easier. Because of this thread and HB I have seen the light at the end of the tunnel and I have more cash to boot...besides who wants to spend all day mixing additives when you can get all you need with a couple of bottles of DG.....


----------



## |B3RNY| (Oct 29, 2013)

Dyna-Gro owns. Hands down.


----------



## weedemart (Oct 29, 2013)

did you tried KLN homebrewer?


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 29, 2013)

weedemart said:


> did you tried KLN homebrewer?


I have tried KLN and liked it back when I used to use Clonex. Clonex either changed their formula or I got a bad bottle, either way that's unacceptable so I switched to to Dip-N-Grow. Long story short, I'm still 'dialing in' Dip-N-Grow and haven't used KLN in a while.

Just a side note: Dip-N-Grow is good sh*t!


----------



## joe macclennan (Oct 29, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> I did but then I got a bad batch of Clonex (or they just changed their formula and it doesn't work well now) .


interesting you say that. I noticed a serious drop in clone success too for a while. It has went back up some but still not @ the 95%+ I was seeing. closer to 70-80% success. Which still isn't too shabby but still.....

I do know that root riot changed the process by which they make their plugs.


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## homebrewer (Oct 29, 2013)

joe macclennan said:


> interesting you say that. I noticed a serious drop in clone success too for a while. It has went back up some but still not @ the 95%+ I was seeing. closer to 70-80% success. Which still isn't too shabby but still.....
> 
> I do know that root riot changed the process by which they make their plugs.


Clonex used to be made in Australia, now it might be Michigan. The bad bottle/new formula that I had was kinda runny and was almost a pink color instead of a purple gel. Either way Dip-N-grow is legit and they've never changed their formula. You can also mix up different concentrations to root everything from soft tissue to hard wood cuttings. 

What scares me about a cloning solution with a 70-80% success rate is that I don't have the space or plant count to take 4 cuttings of each strain to ensure that I NEVER lose a strain accidentally. It wouldn't be a big deal if I kept mothers but I stopped doing that and I need to be able to count on a 100% success rate which is what I used to have with Clonex. D-n-G gives me better roots anyways so I'm glad I made the switch. 

Anyways, when I used good bottles of Clonex, I noticed roots a couple days quicker when using KLN. I'll reintroduce KLN when my cloning is back up to 100% as I've only used Dip-n-Grow for like 6 months.


----------



## joe macclennan (Oct 29, 2013)

may have to try some of the d n g when my bottle of clonex runs out.....we'll see. What medium do you use for cloning hb?


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 29, 2013)

joe macclennan said:


> may have to try some of the d n g when my bottle of clonex runs out.....we'll see. What medium do you use for cloning hb?


PM me if you try it, I'll give you some numbers that should work well.

I use rapid rooters almost exclusively.


----------



## weedemart (Oct 29, 2013)

I was already looking for dipngro. it's the same product but KLN is less concentrated and has a different IBA/NAA ratio. I plan to use dipngro as a root booster for the first week and wanted your feedback. synthetic iba/naa product is a good alternative to root booster like rhyzotonic or root excel.


----------



## joe macclennan (Oct 29, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> PM me if you try it, I'll give you some numbers that should work well.
> 
> I use rapid rooters almost exclusively.


I like that it has different levels for hardwoods and such. I've been thinking about trying to clone some arborvitaes for a windbreak.


----------



## inhaleindica (Oct 29, 2013)

HB have you tried using rapid start and root tech gel? With rapid rooter plugs? I get 90-100% root rate. I just dip the clones in Root tech, put them in plugs. First 5 days I just use plain PHed 150 ppm tap water. On the 5th day I use RO water around 150 ppm of Rapid start. That is what works well for me. I have had that 275 ml bottle of rapid start for almost 2 years now. 

Olivia's cloning solution works too, but not as well as rapid start and root tech.


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 29, 2013)

weedemart said:


> I was already looking for dipngro. it's the same product but KLN is less concentrated and has a different IBA/NAA ratio. I plan to use dipngro as a root booster for the first week and wanted your feedback. synthetic iba/naa product is a good alternative to root booster like rhyzotonic or root excel.


I personally don't think 'root boosting' needs to be done if everything else is in order (ie, good food, good medium, good environment, good watering practices, etc.) but do whatcha gotta do to get good roots.


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 29, 2013)

inhaleindica said:


> HB have you tried using rapid start and root tech gel? With rapid rooter plugs? I get 90-100% root rate. *I just dip the clones in Root tech, put them in plugs.* First 5 days I just use plain PHed 150 ppm tap water. On the 5th day I use RO water around 150 ppm of Rapid start. That is what works well for me. I have had that 275 ml bottle of rapid start for almost 2 years now.
> 
> Olivia's cloning solution works too, but not as well as rapid start and root tech.


That's how I used to use Clonex and while I know there are many powders and gels that work well, I just wanted something consistent and commercial-grade. I found a few folks over at another forum recommending D-n-G and gave it a shot. I think I paid $10 for 2 ounces of liquid and I use 1ml of said liquid diluted into a measured amount of RO water at cloning time. I usually clone once per month which means this tiny bottle should last 5 years. So far so good.


----------



## weedemart (Oct 29, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> I personally don't think 'root boosting' needs to be done if everything else is in order (ie, good food, good medium, good environment, good watering practices, etc.) but do whatcha gotta do to get good roots.


 it's not necessary but I noticed my roots were healthier and grew much faster with products like root excel. Definetily gave them a boost.auxin and cytokinine are keys in plant growth. for cutting I usually prepare a solution of cannastart and add few ppm of silicon then ajust ph with fulvic... I soak my plugs in this solution then I dip cutting in root gel and put them in plugs.


----------



## inhaleindica (Oct 29, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> That's how I used to use Clonex and while I know there are many powders and gels that work well, I just wanted something consistent and commercial-grade. I found a few folks over at another forum recommending D-n-G and gave it a shot. I think I paid $10 for 2 ounces of liquid and I use 1ml of said liquid diluted into a measured amount of RO water at cloning time. I usually clone once per month which means this tiny bottle should last 5 years. So far so good.


I can't comment on DnG. I have never used them myself. Though I have read about them and there is no reason why it shouldn't work. If they are cheap and works well, why try something else. I can say I dislike clonex. Clonex only gave me 20% clone rate.


----------



## weedemart (Oct 29, 2013)

IMO it's not the product.... every cloning gel/solution is IBA based..... it's how you use it. with hormone , u better use low amount than high. In few research I've saw, some plant treated with 50ppm of IBA were clearly ahead of non-treated plant but at 100ppm the plant were behind non-treated....


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## joe macclennan (Oct 29, 2013)

I never went that low. 50% was the worst i ever seen.

considering trying honey at some point. I saw an interesting vid. on utube once about it.


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## inhaleindica (Oct 29, 2013)

weedemart said:


> it's not necessary but I noticed my roots were healthier and grew much faster with products like root excel. Definetily gave them a boost.auxin and cytokinine are keys in plant growth. for cutting I usually prepare a solution of cannastart and add few ppm of silicon then ajust ph with fulvic... I soak my plugs in this solution then I dip cutting in root gel and put them in plugs.


Roots Excel is over rated man. Too damn pricey. Rapid start is half price and does the same thing. However, I don't know if I will buy another bottle of Rapid start. Rapid start works well for me. I am still looking for a cheaper and better alternative.


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## weedemart (Oct 29, 2013)

rapid start is overrated and damn pricey as very other root booster.... and BTW.. yes it's half price but its 1ml/L and root excel is .3ml/L so .....do the math..... FYI im not using any root booster at the moment , but I plan to , with DipNgro. I will try few experiment first starting at 1ppm and gradually increase.


----------



## inhaleindica (Oct 29, 2013)

weedemart said:


> rapid start is overrated and damn pricey as very other root booster.... and BTW.. yes it's half price but its 1ml/L and root excel is .3ml/L so .....do the math..... FYI im not using any root booster at the moment , but I plan to , with DipNgro. I will try few experiment first starting at 1ppm and gradually increase.


Lol, ok......


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## weedemart (Oct 29, 2013)

yes I know it's funny. you're paying 150$/L for a diluted version of DipNgro at 70$/L


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## homebrewer (Oct 29, 2013)

weedemart said:


> IMO it's not the product.... every cloning gel/solution is IBA based..... it's how you use it. with hormone , u better use low amount than high. In few research I've saw, *some plant treated with 50ppm of IBA were clearly ahead of non-treated plant but at 100ppm the plant were behind non-treated*....


I spoke with the owner of DnG and he echoed the same thing. Since you can make your mix as potent or as weak as you want depending on the type of plant you're propagating, he said to keep in mind that your results across a range of concentration levels would resemble a bell-shaped curve. If a particular mix is working, a more potent mixture isn't always the way to go. 

Keep in mind fellas that I'm not saying you should switch away from the cloning solution that works for you. Clonex was killing it for me for almost a decade, it's the only other solution I've ever used. They made some changes (I think) and I moved on. 

In regards to price, I would pay a hefty sum to ensure I never lose a cut. Fortunately many of these solutions will work just fine for a reasonable price.


----------



## joe macclennan (Oct 29, 2013)

I used to use olivias. I feel clonex is a better product for me. 

gonna have to check this dng out.


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## weedemart (Oct 29, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> I spoke with the owner of DnG and he echoed the same thing. Since you can make your mix as potent or as weak as you want depending on the type of plant you're propagating, he said to keep in mind that your results across a range of concentration levels would resemble a bell-shaped curve. If a particular mix is working, a more potent mixture isn't always the way to go.


 This is the result of relation between auxin and cytokinine.When auxin and cytokinine are in imbalanced ratio the plant growth will suffer.pgr have their antagonist like each macro/micro does.


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 29, 2013)

weedemart said:


> This is the result of relation between auxin and cytokinine.When auxin and cytokinine are in imbalanced ratio the plant growth will suffer.pgr have their antagonist like each macro/micro does.


Maybe that's the science behind it, he was just saying some plants are IBA sensitive and oftentimes 'less' is better than 'more'....to an extent. There is always that bell-shaped curve when it comes to a particular plant's ideal mix.


----------



## inhaleindica (Oct 29, 2013)

weedemart said:


> yes I know it's funny. you're paying 150$/L for a diluted version of DipNgro at 70$/L


Sure, keep talking... I only stated my opinion and you go off with insults. That just makes you smarter??? Hmmm. Anyways I am not into babies. GL now back to HB's thread.


----------



## weedemart (Oct 30, 2013)

insult? Lol, k....


----------



## Tempe420 (Nov 1, 2013)

joe macclennan said:


> I used to use olivias. I feel clonex is a better product for me.
> 
> gonna have to check this dng out.


AZOS is far better than Clonex ever was. We pop roots in 5 days on average using Azos as a paste.


----------



## joe macclennan (Nov 1, 2013)

so I checked out some dip n gro yesterday...holy smokes that stuffs expensive


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 1, 2013)

joe macclennan said:


> so I checked out some dip n gro yesterday...holy smokes that stuffs expensive


It's $10 for two fluid ounces. You make your own mixtures with water and their solution so it's as expensive as you want to make it. I use 1ml of their solution during cloning and dilute it to the strength that I want.


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## homebrewer (Nov 1, 2013)

Dip-n-Grow is a commercial _liquid_ rooting concentrate. You mix up some DnG concentrate with some water to the strength that you want, dip cuts for 5 seconds, then plant. They give you a cup to mix up your cloning solution in which sort of requires you to use 5mls of their solution, then an amount of water to dilute to the concentration that you like. The cup mixes up more 'solution' than needed for hobby use which is why I mix up my solution in a 10ml test tube. 

Lets say I mix up a 10x solution (1 part DnG concentrate and 9 parts water), I bet I could dip 500 cuts into the 10mls of solution and I only used one ml of their rooting concentrate. 



> this stuff must have already been diluted cuz it was 50$ for a pint


At $10 for two ounces, a pint would cost $80 so $50 is a deal.


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## joe macclennan (Nov 2, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> Dip-n-Grow is a commercial _liquid_ rooting concentrate. You mix up some DnG concentrate with some water to the strength that you want, dip cuts for 5 seconds, then plant. They give you a cup to mix up your cloning solution in which sort of requires you to use 5mls of their solution, then an amount of water to dilute to the concentration that you like. The cup mixes up more 'solution' than needed for hobby use which is why I mix up my solution in a 10ml test tube.
> 
> Lets say I mix up a 10x solution (1 part DnG concentrate and 9 parts water), I bet I could dip 500 cuts into the 10mls of solution and I only used one ml of their rooting concentrate.
> 
> ...


ahh, gotcha. Thank you so very much homebrewer. 

Do you know if it has a shelflife...I mean does it go bad? Cuz they only had pints.


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 2, 2013)

joe macclennan said:


> ahh, gotcha. Thank you so very much homebrewer.
> 
> Do you know if it has a shelflife...I mean does it go bad? Cuz they only had pints.


You'd have to call them about that.


----------



## jaril (Nov 5, 2013)

Hey HB, im new to the site and just a beginner at growing. I came across one of your journals and pretty much read all of them now. Your grows are amazing! I want to get some advice and a little direction from you. I plan on using ak47 from ss, with DG in a soilless medium like Promix HP or Sunshine Mix 4. T5 for seedling, MH for Veg, 600w HPS for flower in a 4x4 tent. Here are a few questions that want your guidance on:

*Soilless Medium
*What would you prefer, *Promix HP Myo*, *Sunshine Mix 4* (have you tried *Sunshine Mix 2*), or *another*?
What would you add out of the bag for these (extra *perlite*, *dolomite*)?
What's a general *ph* to stay at with these?

*Nutes*
What DG would be needed for this (*Bloom*, *Grow*, *Mag-Pro*, *Pro-teKt*, *Other*?)
What DG ratio would you use for veg/flower and how often would you usually feed? (I dont have a RO system)

I saw this post you made below and was wondering if you still recommend the same with all your knowledge now.



> I use Sunshine mix #4 and have premixed my bloom and grow nutes (1 part grow and 3 parts bloom) in a bottle to make feeding days easier. Since I now use RO water, I feed with about 5mls of protekt and 4mls of grow/bloom per gallon during flower. That's all you need. In veg, it's more like 3 mls of protekt and 1.5mls of Grow.


Thanks ahead of time, its been fun and educational reading your posts.


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 5, 2013)

jaril said:


> Hey HB, im new to the site and just a beginner at growing. I came across one of your journals and pretty much read all of them now. Your grows are amazing! I want to get some advice and a little direction from you. I plan on using ak47 from ss, with DG in a soilless medium like Promix HP or Sunshine Mix 4. T5 for seedling, MH for Veg, 600w HPS for flower in a 4x4 tent. Here are a few questions that want your guidance on:
> 
> *Soilless Medium
> *What would you prefer, *Promix HP Myo*, *Sunshine Mix 4* (have you tried *Sunshine Mix 2*), or *another*?
> ...


I only use promix for 'dirt' these days. I add vermiculite and feed in the low 6.0 range for pH. 

Foliage Pro from start to finish.


----------



## jaril (Nov 6, 2013)

> I only use promix for 'dirt' these days. I add vermiculite and feed in the low 6.0 range for pH.
> 
> Foliage Pro from start to finish.


Thanks for the quick response. Ill go ahead and use Promix HP with a little vermiculite in it to start.

Ill also get the above mentioned DG products including Foliage Pro.
For starters, should i just follow their recommended feed chart?


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 6, 2013)

jaril said:


> Thanks for the quick response. Ill go ahead and use Promix HP with a little vermiculite in it to start.
> 
> Ill also get the above mentioned DG products including Foliage Pro.
> *For starters, should i just follow their recommended feed chart?*


Never follow feed charts.

A good starting point is their 'maintenance' directions on the backs of their bottles.


----------



## jaril (Nov 7, 2013)

> Never follow feed charts.
> 
> A good starting point is their 'maintenance' directions on the backs of their bottles.




Ok ill do that. For the DG line, are you saying that all I should use is Foliage-Pro from start to finish with the promix HP?. No other DG products?


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 7, 2013)

jaril said:


> Ok ill do that. For the DG line, are you saying that all I should use is Foliage-Pro from start to finish with the promix HP?. No other DG products?


Protekt is beneficial too but not essential. Other than that, FP is all you need.

Protekt and foliage pro from start to finish:


----------



## |B3RNY| (Nov 7, 2013)

Nice, HB. Wouldn't have had the gems to try it on my own...


----------



## jaril (Nov 7, 2013)

> Protekt is beneficial too but not essential. Other than that, FP is all you need.


Ok ill do that. Ill try and post up my results after its all done. Thanks HB.


----------



## curious2garden (Nov 8, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> Protekt is beneficial too but not essential. Other than that, FP is all you need.
> 
> Protekt and foliage pro from start to finish:


Roughly 6 weeks from seed (9/13), image taken yesterday. These guys had a little bit of Canna Start as seedlings but other than that all they have gotten is DG Foliage Pro, DG Pro Tekt and Botanicare Ca/Mg with Fe. They are beginning their second week of flower. The tallest are around 2 feet. 

One of the nicest side effects of DG's Foliage Pro is it decreases the stretch that occurs in early flower. So I loose less at the bottom and can keep the canopy closer to even when running different strains. Below are 10 C 99's and 2 DNA Pure Afghans.

I have finished many plants on DG Foliage Pro and have rarely had to add in any extra P. Oh and the current dose of FP I'm running is 2 cc/gallon at this stage so start at 1 cc/gallon and see how they respond. This gives me roughly 300 on my TDS meter and I'm pushing these guys since I lost my winter harvest of 29 4 footers to thrips LOL. I usually allow for some twisting and turning of the leaves and about 1/16 to 1/8 inch burnt on the top leaves tips. If I see anymore I move to pH'ed water until they lighten up then I back off the nutrient by a 1/2 ml/ gallon.



If you read back HB got me started on DG too LOL.


----------



## weedemart (Nov 8, 2013)

thrips are THE PEST you don't want in your garden. mites are jokes, easy to get rid off. Next time try Spinosad, it already saved me. It's 100% natural.


----------



## chuck estevez (Nov 8, 2013)

weedemart said:


> thrips are THE PEST you don't want in your garden. mites are jokes, easy to get rid off. Next time try Spinosad, it already saved me. It's 100% natural.


funny, i find the complete opposite. Pyrethrins take thrips out. Spidermites seem to always come back.


----------



## weedemart (Nov 8, 2013)

both work but spinosad is the way to go against thrips. One application and they won't come back. I used pyrethrin against thrips and it was not as effective as spinosad. mites are easy to kill with pyrethrin.if they come back , you didn't treat everything. Most of the times you'll need to treat them two times in a 7 days interval to kill every mites and eggs.


----------



## joe macclennan (Nov 8, 2013)

spinosad for thrips abamectin for mites...everything is right in the world.


----------



## ozric420 (Nov 14, 2013)

homebrewer said:


> Protekt is beneficial too but not essential. Other than that, FP is all you need.
> 
> Protekt and foliage pro from start to finish:


HB..I only grow in hydro, I use DG grow bloom pro-tekt and mag pro.....do you think I could use Protekt and foliage pro only for the whole grow or that's not for hydro ? thanks


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 14, 2013)

ozric420 said:


> HB..I only grow in hydro, I use DG grow bloom pro-tekt and mag pro.....do you think I could use Protekt and foliage pro only for the whole grow or that's not for hydro ? thanks


Thus far, combos of grow and bloom in hydro for flowering work the best. I do like FP in hydro for veg though. 

I'll be running some tests over the next 6 months or so with combos of bloom and foliage pro in hydro for flowering.


----------



## joe macclennan (Nov 16, 2013)

ozric420 said:


> HB..I only grow in hydro, I use DG grow bloom pro-tekt and mag pro.....do you think I could use Protekt and foliage pro only for the whole grow or that's not for hydro ? thanks


I am running around 1ml/gallon protekt for veg. and flower. I like it.


----------



## indyboarder57 (Nov 24, 2013)

Hey HB, just read your post about mixing FP with DG's Bloom formula. Out of curiosity, I would love to pick brain about it. I just switched to DWC about 2 months ago, I am flowering a total of 3 plants under a 400 w HPS, in 5 gal buckets. 

So, for my girls flowering, I originally was flowering with FP for the first two weeks of flowering and then I switched to straight bloom ( like an idiot). I actually experienced some Cu lockout, because I was using to much P (from Bloom and MagPro). 

After this little hick-up, I have switched back to my tried and true method of just using DG Gro and I am currently testing one 5gal system with just FP from start to finish with some Pro-tek( cut it out after 2nd week of flower.)

So to avoid a similar situation with nute-burn, lock outs etc; what are your rates you have been testing with some far using FP/ Bloom mix for hydro? I have noticed that if I used DG Grow in Hydro, some of my more N hungry plants would yellow, thus why I switched back to FP ( just lighten the dose for lighter feeders). I was thinking 50/50 mix of FP/Bloom. Would love to hear your thoughts. 
Cheers everyone.


----------



## homebrewer (Nov 24, 2013)

indyboarder57 said:


> Hey HB, just read your post about mixing FP with DG's Bloom formula. Out of curiosity, I would love to pick brain about it. I just switched to DWC about 2 months ago, I am flowering a total of 3 plants under a 400 w HPS, in 5 gal buckets.
> 
> So, for my girls flowering, I originally was flowering with FP for the first two weeks of flowering and then I switched to straight bloom ( like an idiot). I actually experienced some Cu lockout, because I was using to much P (from Bloom and MagPro).
> 
> ...


What EC are you currently feeding your flowering plants?


----------



## indyboarder57 (Nov 24, 2013)

I am currently feeding my Nirvana Northern Lights ( I have two of them). The one that I spoke of, that had Cu lock out from to much P, from Mag-Pro and Bloom only. I am currently feeding now just DG-Grow @ 375-400 ppm, which = .8 EC.She is know in her 6th week. I know this sounds very light. But, this strain, from with my tinkering, is really nute sensitive. After you burn it once, it has a tough time coming back. Thus, I had originally been feeding at about 1.0 EC, with the Bloom and mag-pro only. 

The other girl, which is a NL as well, she is 2nd week of flowering. I am just using FP and protek thus far, I am feeding her at about 250ppm = 0.5 EC, and slowly building. 
I know each strain has a "threshold" for nutrient uptake/capabilities, I personally think these girls are just sensitive strains. Whereas my Grape God, I can bloom her with about a 1.2 EC ( or 600ppm) at her finishing weeks, with no signs of nute burn or def. 

I know I am getting good results, but I always like to play around, and here what others have to say. Thus, why I am curious about your FP and Bloom results. I am gonna start putting bloom in with that 2nd week flowering NL soon, and start tinkering. 
Thanks dude. 

PS- My friend and I did a pro-mix grow side-by-side(same clones/strains, same pot types, grow area, feeding schedules etc) using his complete AN line (which came out to about $250.00, hydro shops in Hawaii are an arm and a leg), vs my DG quarts( $60, for FP and Silicon). This was an outdoors grow btw. Anywhoo, DG products, my Grape God yielded 22.1% more. +/- 1.2% error estimation.


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## homebrewer (Nov 24, 2013)

indyboarder57 said:


> I am currently feeding my Nirvana Northern Lights ( I have two of them). The one that I spoke of, that had* Cu lock out from to much P, from Mag-Pro and Bloom only.* I am currently feeding now just DG-Grow @ 375-400 ppm, which = .8 EC.She is know in her 6th week. I know this sounds very light. But, this strain, from with my tinkering, is really nute sensitive. After you burn it once, it has a tough time coming back. * Thus, I had originally been feeding at about 1.0 EC, with the Bloom and mag-pro only. *
> 
> The other girl, which is a NL as well, she is 2nd week of flowering. I am just using FP and protek thus far, I am feeding her at about 250ppm = 0.5 EC, and slowly building.
> I know each strain has a "threshold" for nutrient uptake/capabilities, I personally think these girls are just sensitive strains. Whereas my Grape God, I can bloom her with about a 1.2 EC ( or 600ppm) at her finishing weeks, with no signs of nute burn or def.
> ...


In hydro, I never run 'just bloom' as it's always split with some 'grow'. 

Your feeding levels seem fine and if you're not using some 'grow' during flowering then _that_ is your issue. 

As far as bloom/fp combos, I've not run them yet. Possibly on this next run I'll start playing with it. 



> PS- My friend and I did a pro-mix grow side-by-side(same clones/strains, same pot types, grow area, feeding schedules etc) using his complete AN line (which came out to about $250.00, hydro shops in Hawaii are an arm and a leg), vs my DG quarts( $60, for FP and Silicon). This was an outdoors grow btw. Anywhoo, DG products, my Grape God yielded 22.1% more. +/- 1.2% error estimation.


I don't know how controlled one can be outside but that test of yours shows once again that expensive nutes are a total waste of money. I'd put Jacks/Peters and DG up against _any_ food on the market.


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## indyboarder57 (Nov 28, 2013)

Thanks for the info HB. I am keeping tabs on my runs with dwc formulas with FP and Bloom, will let everyone know the results soon. Happy Thanksgiving!
Oh, absolutely right about the "control" aspect, used that termed too loosely.
A hui hou


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## ozric420 (Dec 10, 2013)

Hello HB.... I have a few questions ... I am mixing tap water with R/O .which will bring my ppm to about 80.... do I need to add Mag Pro to my mix ... and I thought I was suppose to use it in veg and bloom .. or should I only use in bloom only... I have had really no problems until lately with my grows.... the main problem is since about the 2nd week of flower most of my fan leaves have turned yellow. now to be fair ,I did upgrade my HPS from a 600w to 1000w .and I wasn't shore if that had something to do with it, the light is 26 inches above the canopy...my ph starting out is between 5.7 to 6.0 and after a day or to drops into the 4.9 range, in the past I have just added tap water and its brought up the ph to a good range and it still does . I have 2 other grows ,same strain and have had no problems.. same size containers just smaller watt bulbs....I use your formula for dyna grow that I got off one of your other threads ... any suggestions would be great ...thank you for your time....


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## homebrewer (Dec 10, 2013)

ozric420 said:


> Hello HB.... I have a few questions ... I am mixing tap water with R/O .which will bring my ppm to about 80.... do I need to add Mag Pro to my mix ... and I thought I was suppose to use it in veg and bloom .. or should I only use in bloom only... I have had really no problems until lately with my grows.... the main problem is since about the 2nd week of flower most of my fan leaves have turned yellow. now to be fair ,I did upgrade my HPS from a 600w to 1000w .and I wasn't shore if that had something to do with it, the light is 26 inches above the canopy...my ph starting out is between 5.7 to 6.0 and after a day or to drops into the 4.9 range, in the past I have just added tap water and its brought up the ph to a good range and it still does . I have 2 other grows ,same strain and have had no problems.. same size containers just smaller watt bulbs....I use your formula for dyna grow that I got off one of your other threads ... any suggestions would be great ...thank you for your time....


I've been experimenting with cutting out magpro and while I don't see deficiencies, the jury is still out. 

In regards to your light upgrade, I can't help you much there. I'd probably tell you to raise those lights up and use more 'grow' formula during flowering. If the plants grow bigger with more watts, consider upping the EC. Do whatever it takes to keep those leaves green and healthy.


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## ozric420 (Dec 11, 2013)

Thanks HB.... so is Mag Pro only used in Flower ? .... thanks again


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## homebrewer (Dec 11, 2013)

ozric420 said:


> Thanks HB.... so is Mag Pro only used in Flower ? .... thanks again


I was only using it in flower and I question if it's even needed there. I can say for a FACT that it is not necessary but I'm still testing to see if it has benefit.


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## ozric420 (Dec 11, 2013)

thank you for all your input......


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## Old grower2 (Dec 16, 2013)

Read it all 
HB
thank you


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## Lucius Vorenus (Dec 17, 2013)

Curious if any of you are using DG in pure Coco and which one performs best through Bloom phase.


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## BudHound (Dec 20, 2013)

Man you always give dyna major credibility with your results!


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## bassman999 (Jan 18, 2014)

Hey Homebrewer!
I was taking one aspect of your info and seeing how it relates to mainstream brands and their instructions.

I am referring to your flowering ratio of 1-3-2

I find most brands hard to tweak to those numbers no matter how you work the 2 or 3 main parts that that line uses

Here is what I get with Dyna Gro not including ptotect

dyna grow---grow---7-9-5
dyna grow---bloom--3-12-6


2 part bloom to 1 part grow
13-33-17
1.3-3.3-1.7=


1.04-2.64-1.36


3 parts bloom to 1 part grow
16-45-23
1.6-4.5-2.3=


1.056-2.97-1.52




4 parts bloom to 1 part grow
21-57-29
2.1-5.7-2.9=


1.01-2.74-1.392


GH maxi series cant get very close nor can GH flors 3 part line.


Info on the actual ratios of all the nutrients you use would be cool!
Thanx


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## homebrewer (Jan 19, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> Hey Homebrewer!
> I was taking one aspect of your info and seeing how it relates to mainstream brands and their instructions.
> 
> I am referring to your flowering ratio of 1-3-2
> ...


Currently I've been testing bloom and foliage pro, it also works really well though I don't think it's quite as pH-stable as grow/bloom. It's still a work in progress though. 

If you started out flower with a 50/50 mix of grow/bloom, then transitioned to a little more bloom and a little less grow after the stretch, I think that's a recipe for success.


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## bassman999 (Jan 19, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> Currently I've been testing bloom and foliage pro, it also works really well though I don't think it's quite as pH-stable as grow/bloom. It's still a work in progress though.
> 
> If you started out flower with a 50/50 mix of grow/bloom, then transitioned to a little more bloom and a little less grow after the stretch, I think that's a recipe for success.


I am thinking about the KISS method as its called.

This is the Maxibloom used stand alone, maybe add humic and fulvic acids and even some mycos.

Not sure how effective these additives are in hempy, so I am still researching.

I appreciate the time you take to try different brands and do comparisons all the while posting pics and your insights.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 19, 2014)

I've been using closer to 70/30 gro/bloom for the first three weeks. 

Pretty happy with it...needs a few tweeks but i'm close I believe. 

hydro, f&d


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## j.ride (Jan 22, 2014)

Hey homebrewer, I just registered to say thank you, thank you, thank you. I've watched some friends grows over the past decade but have only recently decided to try it myself. I had a buddy bring over a bunch of stuff to get me started, including 5 bottles of crap and a complex mixing chart --- just for veg. Apparently there was double the bottles for flower. Life has taught me that there usually is an easier and better way to do things so I searched for it and luckily stumbled across your thread.

As far as I'm concerned, dyna-gro is already proven, as you have shown. My buddy kept shaking his head and going "well.... let's be realistic here, there's no way one bottle of stuff can compete but we'll see" "we'll see how it tastes...." "we'll see what yield is like..." and on and on. I think this is a perfect example of human psychology. People hang on to their old systems and their old ways because they don't want to admit to themselves that they could have been doing it better all this time. They don't want to admit that they don't know everything.


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## homebrewer (Jan 22, 2014)

j.ride said:


> Hey homebrewer, I just registered to say thank you, thank you, thank you. I've watched some friends grows over the past decade but have only recently decided to try it myself. I had a buddy bring over a bunch of stuff to get me started, including 5 bottles of crap and a complex mixing chart --- just for veg. Apparently there was double the bottles for flower. Life has taught me that there usually is an easier and better way to do things so I searched for it and luckily stumbled across your thread.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, dyna-gro is already proven, as you have shown. *My buddy kept shaking his head and going "well.... let's be realistic here, there's no way one bottle of stuff can compete but we'll see" "we'll see how it tastes...." "we'll see what yield is like..."* and on and on. I think this is a perfect example of human psychology. People hang on to their old systems and their old ways because they don't want to admit to themselves that they could have been doing it better all this time. They don't want to admit that they don't know everything.


Don't leave us hanging....how'd things turn out?


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## j.ride (Jan 22, 2014)

Oh, my bad! The end result is still TBD. I literally just started this and don't even have anything in flower yet. So far, so good, I haven't managed to kill anything and the ladies are looking as healthy as can be. I'll let you know in a few months. It's going to be one of those subjective tests where my buddy knows his strains and how they do under his system. We will compare, but it will be a biased test and also not account for the environmental differences between our grows. Thanks to your information, I'm already convinced that dyna-gro is the way to go and don't really care to waste time mixing 5-10 different things everyday for 3 months just to see.

I'm growing in promix and as I understand it, you're now recommending grow or foliage pro + protekt the whole way through and that is it. Is that correct? Have you seen any difference between grow and foliage pro in promix? I'm thinking of playing with this myself but I need to get a baseline established first.

I also took your advice and got some info from my water company. I dropped your screen name and everyone went out of their way to help! You must be royalty or something. Here's the info and any comment would be most welcome. My TDS pen shows 155 out of the tap.


*Analyte**Units**Average**Min**Max*AlkalinitymgCaCO3/L8442136Calciummg/L352248Chloridemg/L471492Conductivityµmhos/cm500250744Fluoride mg/L0.80.51.0Hardness-CamgCaCO3/L8755121Hardness-TotalmgCaCO3/L12072188pHSU7.587.117.96Sodium mg/L461990Sulfatemg/L6531106


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## homebrewer (Jan 22, 2014)

j.ride said:


> Oh, my bad! *The end result is still TBD*. I literally just started this and don't even have anything in flower yet. So far, so good, I haven't managed to kill anything and the ladies are looking as healthy as can be. I'll let you know in a few months. It's going to be one of those subjective tests *where my buddy knows his strains and how they do under his system. We will compare*, but it will be a biased test and also not account for the environmental differences between our grows. Thanks to your information, I'm already convinced that dyna-gro is the way to go and don't really care to waste time mixing 5-10 different things everyday for 3 months just to see.


In all likelihood, your friend will probably do better than you but that's just because he's more experienced. 



> I'm growing in promix and as I understand it, *you're now recommending grow or foliage pro + protekt the whole way through and that is it*. Is that correct? Have you seen any difference between grow and foliage pro in promix? I'm thinking of playing with this myself but I need to get a baseline established first.


Yup! I prefer foliage pro and protekt but grow will work very well too!



> I also took your advice and got some info from my water company.* I dropped your screen name and everyone went out of their way to help!* You must be royalty or something. Here's the info and any comment would be most welcome. My TDS pen shows 155 out of the tap.
> 
> 
> *Analyte**Units**Average**Min**Max*AlkalinitymgCaCO3/L8442136Calciummg/L352248Chloridemg/L471492Conductivityµmhos/cm500250744Fluoridemg/L0.80.51.0Hardness-CamgCaCO3/L8755121Hardness-TotalmgCaCO3/L12072188pHSU7.587.117.96Sodiummg/L461990Sulfatemg/L6531106


They probably thought you were a homebrewer as it's quite common for brewers to request this sort of info. In regards to your water, I'd look into RO. However, if it's working well for you now, run with it.


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## j.ride (Jan 22, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> They probably thought you were a homebrewer as it's quite common for brewers to request this sort of info.


I'll have to work on my sarcasm  Thanks again for the info and I'll let you know how it turns out.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Jan 22, 2014)

Whats the reason you guys are recommending PROTEKT with the Foliage Pro? Is there some particualr reason or just that you like to add Silica?


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## joe macclennan (Jan 22, 2014)

protekt is good with all of em imo. 

the silica helps build strong stems as well as added pest and drought resistance.....good stuff


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## homebrewer (Jan 22, 2014)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> Whats the reason you guys are recommending PROTEKT with the Foliage Pro? Is there some particualr reason or just that you like to add Silica?


I agree with Joe. Some say you don't need to worry about pH when growing in the dirt but if I can control something, I'm going to control it. So for me, protekt has that dual purpose of balancing my pH AND strengthening my plants.


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## rjh852 (Jan 27, 2014)

Homebrewer. You are absolutely the man. I greatly appreciated all of the knowledge you have shared with us. Especially in an industry that profits off keeping "secrets", and concocting "magic potions", that are expected to then outperform the more fairly priced items on the market. I have been following you for probably 3 years here in backround and had to make this my first post. I am no longer a beleiver in all of the hype. I understand your philosophy of using a meter (funny I remember when you didn't have one and still had great results) to determine the right range. I understand what nutrients you used. Although I've seen you change from the bloom formula to the grow, and heard others chime in with the foliage pro. I am making the switch from GH so I have many of their additives and plan on keeping FB and FP+, dropping botanicare SB and Calmag, and grabbing PM and PT from DG. Could you possibly make a "finalized" recipe of what you found to be the absolute best ml/gl and whatnot, and what weeks you changed it. I was hoping to just print it out and I'm sure it would be easier for everyone. Its like the simplified, more complete version of the Lucas formula. I am hoping this may contribute in some way replicating the flavors and aromas created in soil grows. It must atleast be a step in the right direction. Sorry to type a novel, first post and all lol. I just want a HB "master recipe" as of today. I think the GH vs DG was 2010. So where are you at week by week in 2014? Id like to throw my GH feed chart away and use yours start to finish and week by week. Im a pain in the ass but could you make a schedule like that for us all? I think it would benefit everyone. Using the FB and FP, ProM ProT, and whater you find is the best base Foliage Prow, Grow, Bloom, and in what increments. I would like the best product, So buying both isnt a problem if it will give me better results. I appreciate everything you do man. You are making things easier for everyone, pretty selfless act in this hobby.


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## homebrewer (Jan 27, 2014)

rjh852 said:


> Homebrewer. You are absolutely the man. I greatly appreciated all of the knowledge you have shared with us. Especially in an industry that profits off keeping "secrets", and concocting "magic potions", that are expected to then outperform the more fairly priced items on the market. I have been following you for probably 3 years here in backround and had to make this my first post. I am no longer a beleiver in all of the hype. I understand your philosophy of using a meter (funny I remember when you didn't have one and still had great results) to determine the right range. I understand what nutrients you used. Although I've seen you change from the bloom formula to the grow, and heard others chime in with the foliage pro. I am making the switch from GH so I have many of their additives and plan on keeping FB and FP+, dropping botanicare SB and Calmag, and grabbing PM and PT from DG. Could you possibly make a "finalized" recipe of what you found to be the absolute best ml/gl and whatnot, and what weeks you changed it. I was hoping to just print it out and I'm sure it would be easier for everyone. Its like the simplified, more complete version of the Lucas formula. I am hoping this may contribute in some way replicating the flavors and aromas created in soil grows. It must atleast be a step in the right direction. Sorry to type a novel, first post and all lol. I just want a HB "master recipe" as of today. I think the GH vs DG was 2010. So where are you at week by week in 2014? Id like to throw my GH feed chart away and use yours start to finish and week by week. Im a pain in the ass but could you make a schedule like that for us all? I think it would benefit everyone. Using the FB and FP, ProM ProT, and whater you find is the best base Foliage Prow, Grow, Bloom, and in what increments. I would like the best product, So buying both isnt a problem if it will give me better results. I appreciate everything you do man. You are making things easier for everyone, pretty selfless act in this hobby.


You touched on the use of a meter in your post and that's really the best way to find out what _your_ plants like. That being said, _my_ schedule may or may not work for you in _your_ room which is why I encourage people to feed per ppm/EC and not a set schedule. Are you in promix or hydro? In promix, I thing the 'maintenance' directions on the DG bottles are a good place to start. These days I like Foliage Pro and protekt. In hydro, I've definitely covered the EC I prefer for veg and flower but my 'schedule' is always changing. These days I'm working with foliage pro in veg and combos of foliage pro + bloom in flower. I use enough protekt on the veg and flower side to balance the pH.


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## rjh852 (Jan 28, 2014)

I'm in hydro. DWC/aero hybrid. I was more hoping for a general rule of thumb type schedule. I have 3 1000w for 12 medical plants, and c02 in a sealed room. I understand the ppm and where is too high, I understand when I need to cut back or add more. I think I can take the ppm to the max for each strains limits. Between the schedule DG provides and your journals I can definitely figure it out. Thanks for all of your hard work HB


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## Thedillestpickle (Feb 2, 2014)

Hey there HomeBrewer, glad to see you are still active. 
I took a couples years break from growing, but I'm thinking of ordering up some AK-47 seeds from SS.

The plan is to grow 4 plants under a 1000w. Everything about AK-47 sounds great, good aroma, good yield, consistent reliable genetics, etc. I was thinking to do a long veg to take advantage of all that light for only 4 plants. The plan would be to top my plants early in veg, to obtain 4 main colas. 


Is AK one of those strains that "doesn't like" to be topped? 
It worked really amazingly when I double topped the Kali Mist grow(too bad most of my grow posts were deleted in 2012), with each plant growing out 4 identical Colas. 


I am hoping the "very little branching" trait of the AK-47 will work in my favour. Top early in veg, then top again, to create 4 shoots. Flower that into 4 distinct colas. 

Any thoughts? strain suggestions?


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## homebrewer (Feb 3, 2014)

Thedillestpickle said:


> Hey there HomeBrewer, glad to see you are still active.
> I took a couples years break from growing, but I'm thinking of ordering up some AK-47 seeds from SS.
> 
> The plan is to grow 4 plants under a 1000w. Everything about AK-47 sounds great, good aroma, good yield, consistent reliable genetics, etc. I was thinking to do a long veg to take advantage of all that light for only 4 plants. The plan would be to top my plants early in veg, to obtain 4 main colas.
> ...



How'd the Kali Mist turn out for you? She's still my favorite strain! 

As far as I know, AK47 is still a solid, reliable strain. In my experience, AK is very branchy and does like to be topped. You could spend less money and go with a different breeder/Seed Company but from what I've seen, you wont have a problem finding a keeper in a pack of AK47. There are a ton a strains and crosses out there though, do a little research and see what fits you best. PM me for some suggestions if you'd like.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Feb 4, 2014)

Got a room running right now of just Foliage Pro. Heading into week 3 right now. Nice and green but not quite as much size as id like to see. I am happy not to see any yellowing however. I add 2ml of Calmg as well.

Question for you guys flowering with FP, What type of PPM/ EC are you pushing it to? Im up to 600 now. Which IMO, is pretty high for the FP. The other room running Advanced is pushing 900 now to get us through some yellowing.


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## homebrewer (Feb 4, 2014)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> Got a room running right now of just Foliage Pro. Heading into week 3 right now. Nice and green but not quite as much size as id like to see. I am happy not to see any yellowing however. I add 2ml of Calmg as well.
> 
> Question for you guys flowering with FP, What type of PPM/ EC are you pushing it to? Im up to 600 now. Which IMO, is pretty high for the FP. The other room running Advanced is pushing 900 now to get us through some yellowing.


Hydro or 'dirt'?


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## Lucius Vorenus (Feb 4, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> Hydro or 'dirt'?



Pure Coco.


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## homebrewer (Feb 4, 2014)

Your ideal EC/ppm is really based on a few things. How much you water, how often you water, and the size of your plant. Some feed at every watering, others feed heavier doses every-other-watering. I would start with their recommend 'maintenance' dose which is either 1/4-1/2 tsp/gal and tweak from there. If your plant is green and healthy then you're doing something right. 

One thing I *think* I remember noticing about foliage pro on my first couple 'test plants' is that the plants didn't seem to put on weight very fast BUT unlike bloom formulas that will clog up your medium with an imbalance of salts, foliage pro (or any other high N, low P formula) keeps your plants growing up until the day you harvest. Be patient with foliage pro. If you are using it correctly, it will put on weight like no other food I've used. I'd certainly put money on it out performing even the most complex of feeding schedules from AN. 

Here is a recent pollen-chuck of mine that's only ever been fed protekt and foliage pro at day 48 ..


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## Lucius Vorenus (Feb 4, 2014)

cool cool. ill ride it out and see how it goes.


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## j.ride (Feb 4, 2014)

So I've been using the advice here for my first grow and so far, so good. As an update, I've been using about 1/3 pro-tekt and 2/3 grow to about 500ppm and a PH of 6.5 in promix and all is well. I had a little discoloration and the leaves were turned inwards at one point. I think that was because the light was too close. This has since been remedied. I think some of the discoloration on the top leaves might have also been because the ladies are growing so fast. Can that happen? My supposedly knowledgeable friend said "oh, your PH must be off." 

This same friend was also the one who said there's no way dyna-gro can grow plants that yield AND taste as good as a multi-part solution with a ton of boosters. We shall see. He almost sh*t himself when I said that I was going to use only the grow formula for all of bloom. He then went on a long rant about how the increased nitrogen is going to cause all the plants to stretch way more than they would have and massively decrease yield. So I should starve them instead?...

From what I can gather, the growing community can basically be broken down into two groups: The brainwashed masses/naysayers, and truth seeking adventurous individuals. This makes it really easy to determine who's advice I should listen too. 

Here's the ladies in veg, one week apart. I took the first pic because I thought I may have done something wrong bending the tops, but I think it turned out well.


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## homebrewer (Feb 4, 2014)

j.ride said:


> So I've been using the advice here for my first grow and so far, so good. As an update, I've been using about 1/3 pro-tekt and 2/3 grow to about 500ppm and a PH of 6.5 in promix and all is well. I had a little discoloration and the leaves were turned inwards at one point. I think that was because the light was too close. This has since been remedied. I think some of the discoloration on the top leaves might have also been because the ladies are growing so fast. Can that happen? My supposedly knowledgeable friend said "oh, your PH must be off."
> 
> This same friend was also the one who said there's no way dyna-gro can grow plants that yield AND taste as good as a multi-part solution with a ton of boosters. We shall see. *He almost sh*t himself when I said that I was going to use only the grow formula for all of bloom.* He then went on a long rant about how the increased nitrogen is going to cause all the plants to stretch way more than they would have and massively decrease yield. So I should starve them instead?...
> 
> ...


Keep doing what you're doing if you'd like to see your buddy sh*t himself again .


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## bassman999 (Feb 4, 2014)

j.ride said:


> So I've been using the advice here for my first grow and so far, so good. As an update, I've been using about 1/3 pro-tekt and 2/3 grow to about 500ppm and a PH of 6.5 in promix and all is well. I had a little discoloration and the leaves were turned inwards at one point. I think that was because the light was too close. This has since been remedied. I think some of the discoloration on the top leaves might have also been because the ladies are growing so fast. Can that happen? My supposedly knowledgeable friend said "oh, your PH must be off."
> 
> This same friend was also the one who said there's no way dyna-gro can grow plants that yield AND taste as good as a multi-part solution with a ton of boosters. We shall see. He almost sh*t himself when I said that I was going to use only the grow formula for all of bloom. He then went on a long rant about how the increased nitrogen is going to cause all the plants to stretch way more than they would have and massively decrease yield. So I should starve them instead?...
> 
> ...


They look great, and for a week they sure did grow
Keep it up


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## Lucius Vorenus (Feb 5, 2014)

Ok week 3 of flower here and im at 600ppm (1.2ec) of FP and 150ppm of CalMag. Def starting to get some yellowing pretty bad in about 50% of the plants.

Gonna kick up the base FP to about 900 (1.8ec) and see if that starts to correct things.


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## homebrewer (Feb 5, 2014)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> Ok week 3 of flower here and im at 600ppm (1.2ec) of FP and 150ppm of CalMag. Def starting to get some yellowing pretty bad in about 50% of the plants.
> 
> Gonna kick up the base FP to about 900 (1.8ec) and see if that starts to correct things.


What kind of water are you using?


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## Lucius Vorenus (Feb 5, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> What kind of water are you using?


RO and it's currently 10ppm


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## joe macclennan (Feb 5, 2014)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> Ok week 3 of flower here and im at 600ppm (1.2ec) of FP and 150ppm of CalMag. Def starting to get some yellowing pretty bad in about 50% of the plants.
> 
> Gonna kick up the base FP to about 900 (1.8ec) and see if that starts to correct things.


damn, that seems like a really high ec to me. I never go over 1.1-1.2 and that's a co2 enriched room too. Really i'm finding that around .9-1.0 seems about right for flower. 

and I have almost eliminated the magpro altogether after reading some of hb's posts. Honestly, I experienced worse deff. symptoms when I was running cal mag or magpro. Even running ro water too. I have to agree with him that dgro contains enough cal and mag in it's self. 

something to think about there. 

put some pics up and it'll be easier to diagnose brother.


----------



## Lucius Vorenus (Feb 5, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> damn, that seems like a really high ec to me. I never go over 1.1-1.2 and that's a co2 enriched room too. Really i'm finding that around .9-1.0 seems about right for flower.
> 
> and I have almost eliminated the magpro altogether after reading some of hb's posts. Honestly, I experienced worse deff. symptoms when I was running cal mag or magpro. Even running ro water too. I have to agree with him that dgro contains enough cal and mag in it's self.
> 
> ...


I don't know about all that man. I run .8-1.0 on my veg plants and they take it fine.


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 5, 2014)

I gotta go with Joe on this one. No need for cal/mag supplements and that EC is too high, IMO.


----------



## joe macclennan (Feb 5, 2014)

see, I'm still getting a bit of tip burn @ .6 ec in veg. I run my moms @ around .7 and they have a bit of tip burn too. Next water change I'm dropping by another .1 on each and that's only running 50/50 gro/fol pro. Honestly, i've never seen such good lush growth before 

I've learned a lot from reading hb's posts. 

Oh, and I only flood 2x/day with lights on 18 hrs. 10" netpots for moms. so it's not like i'm flooding ten times a day at super low levels. They REALLY like these lower levels. 

tellin ya man. Less is better with Dyna. obviously strain dependent. (ogk and KK here)


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## joe macclennan (Feb 5, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> I gotta go with Joe on this one. No need for cal/mag supplements and that EC is too high, IMO.



shit man, I'm just following your lead. I have to give you all kinds of credit here because it really was you who convinced me to try less.....and I couldn't be happier @ the moment.


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## homebrewer (Feb 5, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> see, I'm still getting a bit of tip burn @ .6 ec in veg. I run my moms @ around .7 and they have a bit of tip burn too. Next water change I'm dropping by another .1 on each and that's only running 50/50 gro/fol pro. Honestly, i've never seen such good lush growth before
> 
> I've learned a lot from reading hb's posts.
> 
> ...


I think less is better with ANY plant food to be honest. It took a while but eventually what worked best with GH was the same levels I'm at now with DG. H&G's Aqua Flakes killed it at those same levels too. Too high an EC can cause all kinds of issues in your medium. Your plant wont use those extra salts and they'll just clog sh*t up, mess with your pH, and lockout elements. I think that's when people start shouting _'add calmag, man!'_ when in reality there is TOO MUCH Ca and Mg (among other elements) in the medium already. This is the only time I support 'flushing' or as I call it; leaching.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Feb 5, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> I gotta go with Joe on this one. No need for cal/mag supplements and that EC is too high, IMO.


Well then I don't know what. I am also running some Advanced and it calls for 11ml per gal and even that puts me at 1000ppm in RO. Not sure what the deal is.

I will say, my lights in my rooms are very intense and that might be playing a role in how much nutrient the plants use. none of my lights are further than 18" off the canopy and they are 1000w.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Feb 5, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> I think less is better with ANY plant food to be honest. It took a while but eventually what worked best with GH was the same levels I'm at now with DG. H&G's Aqua Flakes killed it at those same levels too. Too high an EC can cause all kinds of issues in your medium. Your plant wont use those extra salts and they'll just clog sh*t up, mess with your pH, and lockout elements. I think that's when people start shouting _'add calmag, man!'_ when in reality there is TOO MUCH Ca and Mg (among other elements) in the medium already. This is the only time I support 'flushing' or as I call it; leaching.


Plants have already been flushed to 200ppm from 1100 ppm. Then put back on 600ppm. Still no correction of the yellowing though. Maybe ill give it a couple more days to correct. To be honest, its just VERY pale leafs. Not any real deficiency and I can tell when a plant is getting too much. These are not.


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## joe macclennan (Feb 5, 2014)

i'm convinced man. It took me close to a year of slowly dropping my ec and using more N throughout to get where I am now. 

not bad considering i've been doing it all wrong for the past 8 lol  Old habits are really hard to break. 

I never used to use ro either. another thing I give you credit for. 

my well water runs around 350ppm and i'd add another 5-600 dyna to it and run. I'd always end up with major necrosis by week 6. all sorts of deficiencies. Adding calmag left and right. 

i've been able to cut my nute bill in half while increasing water change frequency by 30% 

so basically they are getting fresh nutes more often for less money.....no brainer.


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## joe macclennan (Feb 5, 2014)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> Well then I don't know what. I am also running some Advanced and it calls for 11ml per gal and even that puts me at 1000ppm in RO. Not sure what the deal is.
> 
> I will say, my lights in my rooms are very intense and that might be playing a role in how much nutrient the plants use. none of my lights are further than 18" off the canopy and they are 1000w.


no way!

I'm @ just over 60w/sq ft @ 12-15" off canopy. In fact I checked some tops with my ir thermometer earlier and they are getting to 88f with no visible signs of burn. 



just because a companies "feeding schedule" calls for a certain amount really doesn't mean jack. 

throw that feeding chart out and watch the girls.


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## homebrewer (Feb 5, 2014)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> I will say, my lights in my rooms are very intense and that might be playing a role in how much nutrient the plants use. none of my lights are further than 18" off the canopy and they are 1000w.


Just a heads up, you're probably going to want to raise those lamps. I run 600s at more than 2ft above my canopy and my yields are pretty solid for the space that my trays/pots take up. 



Lucius Vorenus said:


> Plants have already been flushed to 200ppm from 1100 ppm. Then put back on 600ppm. Still no correction of the yellowing though. Maybe ill give it a couple more days to correct. To be honest, its just VERY pale leafs. Not any real deficiency and I can tell when a plant is getting too much. These are not.


I still think 600ppm (1.2ish EC) is too high but do what you gotta do. Those lower leaves probably wont green up, look to your new growth to see how things are going. After a few weeks your leaves on the lower parts of your plants should stay green and healthy. Again, drop the calmag and lower your EC, that's my take. It's going to be a 'wait and see' situation here.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Feb 5, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> Just a heads up, you're probably going to want to raise those lamps. I run 600s at more than 2ft above my canopy and my yields are pretty solid for the space that my trays/pots take up.
> 
> 
> 
> I still think 600ppm (1.2ish EC) is too high but do what you gotta do. Those lower leaves probably wont green up, look to your new growth to see how things are going. After a few weeks your leaves on the lower parts of your plants should stay green and healthy. Again, drop the calmag and lower your EC, that's my take. It's going to be a 'wait and see' situation here.


My lights are already to the ceiling unfortunately


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## joe macclennan (Feb 5, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> Just a heads up, you're probably going to want to raise those lamps. I run 600s at more than 2ft above my canopy and my yields are pretty solid for the space that my trays/pots take up.
> 
> .


I tell ya what. I ran mine @ 24-30" for a looong time. I recently dropped them down to 12-15" and am very impressed. Closer is indeed better in my case. and that's with cooled 1ks


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## homebrewer (Feb 6, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> I tell ya what. I ran mine @ 24-30" for a looong time.* I recently dropped them down to 12-15" and am very impressed*. Closer is indeed better in my case. and that's with cooled 1ks


My lights would bleach the sh*t out of my plants at that height. Maybe the difference is in the reflectors, I shoot for 5000 foot candles at the canopy, max.


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## joe macclennan (Feb 6, 2014)

yeah, i'm running sunsystems xxxls. I have a lux meter now and I just checked them a few days ago. 

I believe it read somewhere between 70-90k lux..if I remember right. 

shit, now i'm gonna have to do the conversion..brb


edit: so that translates to 6503-8361 footcandles.


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## stevegreens (Feb 7, 2014)

Newbie here, but have a ph pen and tds meter and I'm doing flood and drain. Could you give the suggested feeding schedule for hydro like you offered below. I don't see a summary but I am learning a lot. And am trying to piece it together. I have been doing dirt with GH but have got the tables and blocks for this setup all ready to go for the DG. 

Thanks for all the help.



homebrewer said:


> I dont like them for the simple fact that when I called them to ask a specific question about one of their products, they literally told me to google it. Ive called GH, Botanicare and DynaGro many, many times with questions and have found their reps to _at least_ be very well informed about their own products.
> 
> Another issue that I have with Humboldt is that their fertilizer lines are just ripoffs of products already being offered by other companies. Their 3part is a GH ripoff, their Master A&B has the same NPK ratio as Sensi, Connoisser and several others Im sure. Their boosters are nothing new and just another attempt to slice into the Liquid Karma, Calmag, rootzyme, and carb additive market. Cool labels but thats about it.
> 
> ...


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## homebrewer (Feb 7, 2014)

stevegreens said:


> *Newbie here, but have a ph pen and tds meter and I'm doing flood and drain.* Could you give the suggested feeding schedule for hydro like you offered below. I don't see a summary but I am learning a lot. And am trying to piece it together. I have been doing dirt with GH but have got the tables and blocks for this setup all ready to go for the DG.
> 
> Thanks for all the help.


You don't need protekt but it's a nice silica additive. I'd suggest protekt and Grow (or foliage pro) in veg, maybe .7 EC. For flower I'd recommend protekt and then a 50/50 mix of bloom and grow (or bloom and foliage pro) at around 1.0 EC. A good grow requires more than good plant food though, good luck!


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## j.ride (Feb 9, 2014)

Let's keep this Dyna-Gro party going! I'm still getting good growth, well over 1" a day for sure. I inherited some bugs so I made a dichotomous earth/water spray and went to town. That would be the white on the leaves. It's keeping the little buggers much more in check than Azamax for pennies on the dollar. There were no adverse reactions and I don't think it's slowed down growth much, if at all. I'll probably do a rinse before the flowering really kicks in. 

This is 8 days into 12/12 and everything is bushing out nicely. I'm sorry for the cropped pic but this is what I have for now. I'm actually really enjoying being a horticulturist and it's doing wonders for my winter blues.


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## joe macclennan (Feb 9, 2014)

good job man+++ Looks very nice.


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## homebrewer (Feb 9, 2014)

j.ride said:


> Let's keep this Dyna-Gro party going! I'm still getting good growth, well over 1" a day for sure. I inherited some bugs so I made a dichotomous earth/water spray and went to town. That would be the white on the leaves. It's keeping the little buggers much more in check than Azamax for pennies on the dollar. There were no adverse reactions and I don't think it's slowed down growth much, if at all. I'll probably do a rinse before the flowering really kicks in.
> 
> This is 8 days into 12/12 and everything is bushing out nicely. I'm sorry for the cropped pic but this is what I have for now. I'm actually really enjoying being a horticulturist and it's doing wonders for my winter blues.


Those look nice, keep doing what you're doing!


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## j.ride (Feb 9, 2014)

Thanks guys, I appreciate the encouragement and advice!


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## j.ride (Feb 10, 2014)

Homebrewer,

I like your methods of working smarter, not harder. Its been 5 weeks now since Ive been at this and Id say Ive saved a good 5 minutes a day not mixing and balancing nutrients under the not quite so ideal system handed down to me. 5 minutes x 7 days in a week x 5 weeks = 175 minutes saved so far in a little over a month. This is not including any time I would have to spend researching and trying to compensate for nutrient deficiencies.

Its been about two and a half years since you reached your final conclusion in this test. Say 100 people listened and switched over from their over complicated feeding routines. 100 seems low and its probably way more than that given the views this thread has had, but lets stick with 100. Say each person saved an average of 5 minutes a day switching over to dyna-gro. Again, 5 minutes is probably on the low side, but lets run with it.

So its been 900 days since page 50 of this thread. Multiplied by 100 people at 5 minutes, that gives us an extremely conservative estimate of 450,000 minutes. Thats almost an entire year. So spread out over everyone whos listened and made the switch, its likely youve saved the human race almost an entire years worth (working 24x7x365) of mixing and balancing nutrients. That number could potentially be 10 or 100 times higher.

All this is not even taking into account how much more yield the world has benefited from your information. Its probably measured in metric tons. The amount of plastic saved from not using watered down multi-part solutions is probably in the metric tons. The amount of phosphorus saved from not overfeeding our plants from what they do not need is probably measured in the metric tons as well.

Good job Sir. You deserve a pat on the back. Its not every day that someone measurably makes the world a better place.


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## resetjenkins (Feb 10, 2014)

After reading through these posts I have come up with the following below but still need to iron out some details.


In veg you only use dyna grow and Pro Tekt (already have the pro-tekt)
start out at 300 ppm and raise it to 600 ppm. .85 ec


during flower though you give a minimum of 1 ml of Dyna grow and feed the rest of the 850-900 ppm with Dyna bloom and Pro-Tekt 5ml
1.2-1.3 ec


lowering to 1 ec for the last couple weeks of flower.


But can you tell me how much Dyna Grow - grow you are giving week by week for the flowering stage and do you cut it out completely at any point for your average 9 week strain.

I see you said a 50/50 mix to stevegreens but that's not what I thought I read previously. So please let me know and thanks for all the help.

(flood and drain sealed room with 4" blocks)



Thanks





homebrewer said:


> You don't need protekt but it's a nice silica additive. I'd suggest protekt and Grow (or foliage pro) in veg, maybe .7 EC. For flower I'd recommend protekt and then a 50/50 mix of bloom and grow (or bloom and foliage pro) at around 1.0 EC. A good grow requires more than good plant food though, good luck!


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## homebrewer (Feb 10, 2014)

resetjenkins said:


> After reading through these posts I have come up with the following below but still need to iron out some details.
> 
> 
> In veg you only use dyna grow and Pro Tekt (already have the pro-tekt)
> ...


I'm always looking for a better way as these days I've been using foliage pro + bloom during flowering. I'm getting some things ironed out but it looks like it performs at least as well as grow+bloom. I think 50/50 is a good place to start flowering with either combination, where you end up is up to you and your plants. Experiment, see what works best and report back


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## Party (Feb 10, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> I'm always looking for a better way as these days I've been using foliage pro + bloom during flowering. I'm getting some things ironed out but it looks like it performs at least as well as grow+bloom. I think 50/50 is a good place to start flowering with either combination, where you end up is up to you and your plants. Experiment, see what works best and report back


I've been beating my head against the wall reading and trying to figure out a good set of nutrients for both stages of growth. What would you recommend in terms on nutrients for each stage.

From the Dyna-grow side*


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## homebrewer (Feb 10, 2014)

Party said:


> I've been beating my head against the wall reading and trying to figure out a good set of nutrients for both stages of growth. What would you recommend in terms on nutrients for each stage.
> 
> From the Dyna-grow side*


Hydro or 'dirt'?


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## Party (Feb 10, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> Hydro or 'dirt'?


sorry hydro dwc 5gal


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## homebrewer (Feb 10, 2014)

Party said:


> sorry hydro dwc 5gal


I think protekt is a nice silica additive so I use that on the veg and flower side. As for veg, either DG's 'grow' or 'foliage pro' would be an excellent choice. For flower I'd recommend a split of grow+bloom or foliage pro+Bloom. As long as your water isn't all jacked up, these bottles will grow really great plants.


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## Party (Feb 10, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> I think protekt is a nice silica additive so I use that on the veg and flower side. As for veg, either DG's 'grow' or 'foliage pro' would be an excellent choice. For flower I'd recommend a split of grow+bloom or foliage pro+Bloom. As long as your water isn't all jacked up, these bottles will grow really great plants.


I'm having some difficulty understanding what you mean would you be so kind as to list off what your talking about. I'm reading off amazon and can't find anything like what you're talking about "Grow+bloom or foliage pro+bloom". I'm lost to say the least


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## Lucius Vorenus (Feb 11, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> I think protekt is a nice silica additive so I use that on the veg and flower side. As for veg, either DG's 'grow' or 'foliage pro' would be an excellent choice. For flower I'd recommend a split of grow+bloom or foliage pro+Bloom. As long as your water isn't all jacked up, these bottles will grow really great plants.


Now you're recommending Bloom? In every other thread you have been touting running FP all the way through. Make up yo mind chico!


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## homebrewer (Feb 11, 2014)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> Now you're recommending Bloom? In every other thread you have been touting running FP all the way through. Make up yo mind chico!


For container gardening, foliage pro is the way to go. He's a hydro guy, for some reason things are different in hydro.


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## homebrewer (Feb 11, 2014)

Party said:


> I'm having some difficulty understanding what you mean would you be so kind as to list off what your talking about. *I'm reading off amazon and can't find anything like what you're talking about "Grow+bloom or foliage pro+bloom"*. I'm lost to say the least


Grow and bloom or Foliage pro and bloom.


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## resetjenkins (Feb 11, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> I'm always looking for a better way as these days I've been using foliage pro + bloom during flowering. I'm getting some things ironed out but it looks like it performs at least as well as grow+bloom. I think 50/50 is a good place to start flowering with either combination, where you end up is up to you and your plants. Experiment, see what works best and report back


I understand what you mean about it's what to plants want, but since you have done this for some time with my type of plant (AK-47 at the moment) and I am not a seasoned vet could you tell me an average of how much bloom to grow or (foliage pro) you give throughout your flower cycle.

Do you end up cutting grow or (foliage pro) usually? How much week by week if you do?

Do you yourself taper it off or go up and then taper off etc? Or are you saying you yourself do the 50/50 mix throughout the entire cycle usually.

I will try different things with one tray but would much rather go with what has been done previously with your favorite results.

I understand the PPM's and how you don't want to go over certain numbers but I am used to charts where they can tell you what ratio to give of grow and when etc. So if you could clarify this I would greatly appreciate it. 

Thanks

If anyone else who has used Homebrewer's method of Dyna Gro with flood and drain blocks that has had great results would like to chime in I would greatly appreciate it as well.


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## homebrewer (Feb 11, 2014)

resetjenkins said:


> I understand what you mean about it's what to plants want, but since you have done this for some time with my type of plant (AK-47 at the moment) and I am not a seasoned vet could you tell me an average of how much bloom to grow or (foliage pro) you give throughout your flower cycle.
> 
> Do you end up cutting grow or (foliage pro) usually? How much week by week if you do?
> 
> ...


Start flowering with a 50/50 mix of grow and bloom OR foliage pro and bloom. You can run that through the entire flowering cycle. If you want to get cute, run that 50/50 mix for AT LEAST the first couple weeks then shift to more bloom than grow/foliage pro. Try tapering to the point where you could be at 80/20 or 90/10 at harvest, just figure out what works best. Your feeding regimen is probably not the weak spot in your grows where a 'dialed in feeding schedule' is going to magically pump out a few more ounces come harvest. Good yields come from doing EVERYTHING correctly. You should have vigorously growing plants moving into a stable flowering environment where they'll be pinched, bent and trained for even better structure. Keep the bugs and mold away and be ready to tie up some snapping branches.


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## chuck estevez (Feb 11, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> Start flowering with a 50/50 mix of grow and bloom OR foliage pro and bloom. You can run that through the entire flowering cycle. If you want to get cute, run that 50/50 mix for AT LEAST the first couple weeks then shift to more bloom than grow/foliage pro. Try tapering to the point where you could be at 80/20 or 90/10 at harvest, just figure out what works best. Your feeding regimen is probably not the weak spot in your grows where a 'dialed in feeding schedule' is going to magically pump out a few more ounces come harvest. Good yields come from doing EVERYTHING correctly. You should have vigorously growing plants moving into a stable flowering environment where they'll be pinched, bent and trained for even better structure. Keep the bugs and mold away and be ready to tie up some snapping branches.


 It is amazing the difference in a bud that finishes properly in a quality environment vs one that was stressed from nutes,bugs and/or mold.


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## resetjenkins (Feb 11, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> Start flowering with a 50/50 mix of grow and bloom OR foliage pro and bloom. You can run that through the entire flowering cycle. If you want to get cute, run that 50/50 mix for AT LEAST the first couple weeks then shift to more bloom than grow/foliage pro. Try tapering to the point where you could be at 80/20 or 90/10 at harvest, just figure out what works best. Your feeding regimen is probably not the weak spot in your grows where a 'dialed in feeding schedule' is going to magically pump out a few more ounces come harvest. Good yields come from doing EVERYTHING correctly. You should have vigorously growing plants moving into a stable flowering environment where they'll be pinched, bent and trained for even better structure. Keep the bugs and mold away and be ready to tie up some snapping branches.


I just thought if you didn't change from 50/50 they would have too much nitrogen in the end and suffer yield or something else. So I thought you may have tapered off yourself.

But thanks for answering. You know what your talking about A LOT more than the average so thought copy and paste might work well in this case.

I always pinch day of flip but have only bent or supercropped before flipping in the past? Do you pinch and bend during flower?

I am barley more than a newbie but have not had a problem with yield, But I do always have an issue with over excessive yellowing early and slight lack of resin production as well as smell. I used GH with the boosters they suggest accept for diamond nector.

I am excited to try and dial in the dynagro, spend less, and get better quality.

Thanks again for the help.


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## homebrewer (Feb 11, 2014)

resetjenkins said:


> I just thought if you didn't change from 50/50 they would have too much nitrogen in the end and suffer yield or something else. So I thought you may have tapered off yourself.
> 
> But thanks for answering. You know what your talking about A LOT more than the average so thought copy and paste might work well in this case.
> 
> ...


Hells yeah I do! I'll even _top_ my kali mist at 3-4 weeks into flower just so she doesn't put a hole in the ceiling. She's one vigorous mofo.


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## resetjenkins (Feb 11, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> Hells yeah I do! I'll even _top_ my kali mist at 3-4 weeks into flower just so she doesn't put a hole in the ceiling. She's one vigorous mofo.



That's a trip. You cut the top nug off? I guess 3 weeks in it's pretty small still.
Would have never thought of that. I got drilled to never top after first day from somewhere.
I could see getting a lot more golf balls surrounding her then though.


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## homebrewer (Feb 11, 2014)

resetjenkins said:


> That's a trip. *You cut the top nug off? *I guess 3 weeks in it's pretty small still.
> Would have never thought of that.* I got drilled to never top after first day from somewhere.*
> I could see getting a lot more golf balls surrounding her then though.


The practice is definitely strain-dependent. I can put kali mist into flower at 18" tall and she'll grow to 6 feet if I let her. She also flowers for around 100 days so topping her at week 4 gives her 70 days to recover and she's much more manageable when topped that way. I don't grow any other strains that could recover from being topped in flower without harming yields.


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## resetjenkins (Feb 12, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> The practice is definitely strain-dependent. I can put kali mist into flower at 18" tall and she'll grow to 6 feet if I let her. She also flowers for around 100 days so topping her at week 4 gives her 70 days to recover and she's much more manageable when topped that way. I don't grow any other strains that could recover from being topped in flower without harming yields.



I see what you mean in that case for sure with the Kali!

last couple questions here and sorry for the bombardment:

1) I couldn't tell if you prune your bottom branches during or before flower, do you?

I always have but find it a pain in the 4X4 tables to get in there in my crammed space.

2) When you supercrop during flower are you actually doing the stem snap around the outer sheathing and dropping it down or just bending the branch down without snap?



Thanks Again. I think you raised my experience level more in the last couple posts then my last couple years.


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## homebrewer (Feb 12, 2014)

resetjenkins said:


> 1) I couldn't tell if you prune your bottom branches during or before flower, do you?


I do both. Those branches don't produce much and they can often times be the first place bugs show up. 



> 2) When you supercrop during flower are you actually doing the stem snap around the outer sheathing and dropping it down or just bending the branch down without snap?



I pinch the tops until I hear/feel a crunch and then I bend them over. It takes a few days to recover but by that time the lower branches have already become way more vigorous than before.


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## j.ride (Feb 12, 2014)

Update: Day 12 of bloom, sticking with 1/3 pro-tekt and 2/3 grow. I wasn't seeing much flowering going on at day 8, but it's in full effect now. 

I was just watering as I saw fit, usually soaking the top of the medium and then waiting until it dried a bit, which was basically everyday. A couple of days ago I realized that I never let any water run off and that there were probably dry spots on the bottom of the pots, not to mention possible salt build up. So I soaked 'em until I got runoff and probably went a little overboard as I had a small lagoon going in my room. I may look into getting some saucers. Watering until runoff was a lot more work, used a lot more water, and cleanup was a pain. But the plants loved it and grew even more vigorously. Not to mention the soil is still wet/moist so I got to take a couple of days off of watering. 

I'm got a bunch of work coming up but I will try to post a few more times throughout the grow. Dyna-Gro might just have to add a new tagline: "Dyna-Gro... so easy a total newb can do it."


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## joe macclennan (Feb 12, 2014)

what is the strain in the second pic jride?


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## j.ride (Feb 12, 2014)

Golden goat. I'm not very knowledgeable about strains so I'm just in it for the ride this first time around. The leaves look like a sativa but that is probably the bushiest plant I have. I also have a blue diesel/sour diesel mix which is the first photo, FLO, blue dream and a couple of others going. BD/SD is stretching the most by far. All of these are from an unproven source so it's a crap shot. I figured I'd start with a bunch of random stuff and see what I like and what grows the best in the conditions I provide. I'm a sativa man myself so I can't wait to get a hold of some Kali Mist seeds that homebrewer keeps raving about.


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## Party (Feb 19, 2014)

I was wondering if anyone could provide me with a feeding chart. *Or feeding advice* for Dyna-Gro grow.

-I found a few completely different feeding regiments and strange numbers per gallon 1tsp(4.92892ml) for two gallons and it seems a bit too high. 

https://www.opengrow.com/topic/41746-dyna-gros-latest-feeding-chart/
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/dyna-gro-best-nutrients-available.16118/ ---- The nutrient chart is for flora products but the discussion is dyna-gro
http://www.dyna-gro.com/Website pdf Files/DG Hydroponic Feeding Chart.pdf - official suggested feedings


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## Lucius Vorenus (Feb 20, 2014)

Party said:


> I was wondering if anyone could provide me with a feeding chart. *Or feeding advice* for Dyna-Gro grow.
> 
> -I found a few completely different feeding regiments and strange numbers per gallon 1tsp(4.92892ml) for two gallons and it seems a bit too high.
> 
> ...


Ignore those charts and just feed your plants what they need. Get an EC meter. 

I feed .3-.6 in veg and can go as high as 1.8ec in flower.


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## j.ride (Feb 25, 2014)

Quick update and more pictures! Day 25 of bloom, everything is still looking good. I think! Marching onward with Grow/Pro-Tekt.

One bud looks burned, the hairs are brown. I'm not sure what happened and it's not even the closest to the light. Any ideas? Other than that things are GREEN.


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## joe macclennan (Feb 25, 2014)

4 weeks in? good job man! they look really good.


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## homebrewer (Feb 25, 2014)

j.ride said:


> Quick update and more pictures! Day 25 of bloom, everything is still looking good. I think! Marching onward with Grow/Pro-Tekt.
> 
> One bud looks burned, the hairs are brown. I'm not sure what happened and it's not even the closest to the light. Any ideas? Other than that things are GREEN.


Very nice! Stay the course and you'll be VERY pleased come harvest.


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## j.ride (Feb 26, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> 4 weeks in? good job man! they look really good.


Thank you! Being my first grow it's hard to know how things should look so I appreciate the encouragement. 



homebrewer said:


> Very nice! Stay the course and you'll be VERY pleased come harvest.


Many, many, thanks. My skeptical buddy is starting to warm up to Dyna-Gro. His latest comment is that the buds look small... but he then went on to admit that he usually has problems with density. His head has finally stopped spinning (or has at least slowed down a little) from when I told him I'm using the grow formula for the whole run. It's quite obvious now that the plants are green, healthy, budding, and that the world did not explode.

I don't mean to hijack the thread but I will post some more pictures in a couple of weeks. Also, I cannot wait to use Dyna-Gro to fertilize my garden this spring. Here's a picture from the Colorado Home and Garden show where I spent some time last week. I'm pretty sure not one landscaper/nursery there had heard of Advanced Nutrients and they seemed to be doing just fine.


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## joe macclennan (Feb 27, 2014)

I had to back off the grow for the final two weeks of flower. Down to about 30% grow70 bloom.


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## homebrewer (Feb 27, 2014)

j.ride said:


> Thank you! Being my first grow it's hard to know how things should look so I appreciate the encouragement.
> 
> 
> 
> Many, many, thanks. My skeptical buddy is starting to warm up to Dyna-Gro. His latest comment is that the buds look small... but he then went on to admit that he usually has problems with density. His head has finally stopped spinning (or has at least slowed down a little) from when I told him I'm using the grow formula for the whole run. It's quite obvious now that the plants are green, healthy, budding, and that the world did not explode.


Grow is clearly working well for you. Sometimes when my plants are totally green top-to-bottom, I'll hit them with just plain water. This doesn't happen too often during a grow, maybe once or twice, but it's a good preventative for salt buildup. 



> I don't mean to hijack the thread but I will post some more pictures in a couple of weeks. Also, I cannot wait to use Dyna-Gro to fertilize my garden this spring. Here's a picture from the Colorado Home and Garden show where I spent some time last week. I'm pretty sure not one landscaper/nursery there had heard of Advanced Nutrients and they seemed to be doing just fine.


Post away! DG is painfully easy to use and gives the best results I've ever seen, it's good to see others realizing that this isn't rocket science.


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## homebrewer (Feb 27, 2014)

j.ride said:


> Many, many, thanks. *My skeptical buddy is starting to warm up to Dyna-Gro. His latest comment is that the buds look small...* but he then went on to admit that he usually has problems with density. His head has finally stopped spinning (or has at least slowed down a little) from when I told him I'm using the grow formula for the whole run. It's quite obvious now that the plants are green, healthy, budding, and that the world did not explode.
> 
> I don't mean to hijack the thread but I will post some more pictures in a couple of weeks. Also, I cannot wait to use Dyna-Gro to fertilize my garden this spring. Here's a picture from the Colorado Home and Garden show where I spent some time last week. I'm pretty sure not one landscaper/nursery there had heard of Advanced Nutrients and they seemed to be doing just fine.


I wanted to comment on his 'observation' real quick. Higher N formulas during flower perform like _The Little Engine That Could_. You'll see steady growth until the day you chop. Stay the course and you'll see what I'm talking about. I can't wait to hear what your friend says .


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## jointed (Feb 27, 2014)

Hi Hb, You probably don't know who I am or even care, but I was and still am an avid fan of RM3 and crew. Would you PLEASE tell him I said hello and I miss his ditties. Love what you got going on bro!! Keep on preachin man...J


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## KarmaFarms (Feb 27, 2014)

I run a small 3k watt med grow. I actually caught a glimps of this forum while researching initial lumen output for 1k Hortilux super HPS lamps. Anyhow I figured I'd give it a quick read... 4hrs later I was totally into NPK ratio's. First I'm a Dyna user mainly for the Pro-Tekt. Love the stuff. I do lots of scrog, lst and the such and occasionally I'll snap a branch. With Pro-Tekt no worries, fixes my girls right up. Now like anyone that's been at this for awhile I wanted to try something new. I picked up some Dutch Masters one Gold. I'm going to try to upload some pics. Well can't figure it out. One Gold plants our lime green. Dyna-Gro dark green. I'm going to research how to upload a pic with an iPhone. If any knows, maybe you could pass it on.


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## retrace (Mar 4, 2014)

HomeBrewer your the best I love this Dyna-Gro discussion.

I need your help (And any one else)

I have read all the post on Dyna Gro and I am looking for a Step by Step Feeding schedule for the Dyna-Gro for Medical Marijuana Grow from the start of Veg all the way through flower.

Here is a picture of a spreadsheet I found online from someone else. 



Guys Im not lazy and am doing my research, but a step by step schedual from HomeBrewer would be awesome


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## j.ride (Mar 5, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> Grow is clearly working well for you. Sometimes when my plants are totally green top-to-bottom, I'll hit them with just plain water. This doesn't happen too often during a grow, maybe once or twice, but it's a good preventative for salt buildup.
> 
> Post away! DG is painfully easy to use and gives the best results I've ever seen, it's good to see others realizing that this isn't rocket science.


Thanks for the tip. I really can't fathom how a nutrient solution could be any easier. I mean, if the bottle of Dyna-gro could grow little legs and mix itself, there would still be naysayers!



homebrewer said:


> I wanted to comment on his 'observation' real quick. Higher N formulas during flower perform like _The Little Engine That Could_. You'll see steady growth until the day you chop. Stay the course and you'll see what I'm talking about. I can't wait to hear what your friend says .


Chug-a-chug-a-chug-a-chug-a-CHO CHOO! Though I don't have much of a reference point, I'm starting to see what you mean. Growth is steady and it seems to be picking up pace. I'll have some more picture within the next couple of days.

This is merely speculation but from what I've been told about this booster and that, it's that they might make a difference in the short term. This would explain why people are attracted to them. They can see almost immediate results. However, for the long term who knows if any short term gain is paid for with less growth over time. It's obvious that most people don't care to take the time and have the discipline to really get to the bottom of if something is good for their grow or not. 



retrace said:


> HomeBrewer your the best I love this Dyna-Gro discussion.
> 
> I need your help (And any one else)
> 
> ...


I don't mean to speak for HB but I believe he's stated a few times to start with the maintenance dose and adjust from there. There are lots of variables and this will require some trial and error on your part.


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## j.ride (Mar 7, 2014)

Here's some pictures from day 35. 5 weeks exactly. I apologize for the quality, using a cell phone for the pictures just makes it too easy. 

I have still been using only grow and pro-tekt, but have felt the urge to muck it up and add other things to the mix. I'm not sure where this is coming from as things seem to look good. Greed perhaps 

I might play around next run with mag-pro and possibly kelp.

My buddy was over yesterday and had a lot to say. Everything from "ooooh look, this plant has stretch in the bud, must be all that nitrogen!!!!" to "maybe you should try bloom foods next time, if you're doing this good with grow, think how much better you'd be doing with bloom foods" to "we should trim more leaves and branches off next time, that will make the main buds that much bigger!" to "we've only got a few weeks to go and we're not seeing many orange hairs, I think the grow nutes delayed us."

Of course most of these strains are new to both of us so there's no way to know if they're even 8 week strains. I've read enough of Uncle Bens posts now to know that most of this is my buddy being brainwashed and ignorant but it still kinda pisses me off. Here's reality knocking him in the face and he still cannot accept that Dyna-Gro Grow + Pro-Tekt used throughout simply kicks ass.


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## taipanspunk (Mar 7, 2014)

WOW... i'm quite amazed and impressed that this thread is active after all these years... 

serious mad props to homebrewer and his dedicated advice!!


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## homebrewer (Mar 8, 2014)

j.ride said:


> Here's some pictures from day 35. 5 weeks exactly. I apologize for the quality, using a cell phone for the pictures just makes it too easy.
> 
> I have still been using only grow and pro-tekt, but have felt the urge to muck it up and add other things to the mix. I'm not sure where this is coming from as things seem to look good. Greed perhaps
> 
> ...


You've got a lot of time to go still but if you stay the course here, you're going to have some awesome herb at harvest. Your friend has his opinions now but I have a feeling that will change when he sees the final product.


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## joe macclennan (Mar 8, 2014)

like^^ 

hey jride, I'd tell your friend to start his own grow then _WE_ can have a controlled experiment next time


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## j.ride (Mar 8, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> You've got a lot of time to go still but if you stay the course here, you're going to have some awesome herb at harvest. Your friend has his opinions now but I have a feeling that will change when he sees the final product.


I sure hope so! I guess a lot can happen between now and harvest. Thank you for laying the groundwork. 



joe macclennan said:


> like^^
> 
> hey jride, I'd tell your friend to start his own grow then _WE_ can have a controlled experiment next time


That's exactly the thing. He's got almost a decade of experience but still doesn't really seem to know what he's talking about. It could just be me soaking up too much from Uncle Ben. I'm sure at some points over the past years the stars did align, my buddies nutes were 'dialed in', and everything was perfect and turned out amazingly well and better than where I'm at now. However, I'm a total newbie using two bottles of solution for the entire grow and things are looking pretty darn good. I basically left it with my friend at "show me you can do it better and I'd be happy to do as you suggest." Perhaps a little cocky on my part but homebrewers pictures were all the evidence I needed to know there's a better way. Thank goodness there's a few enlightened minds on this forum. Time to relax!


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## joe macclennan (Mar 9, 2014)

j.ride said:


> That's exactly the thing. He's got almost a decade of experience but still doesn't really seem to know what he's talking about. It could just be me soaking up too much from Uncle Ben. I'm sure at some points over the past years the stars did align, my buddies nutes were 'dialed in', and everything was perfect and turned out amazingly well and better than where I'm at now. However, I'm a total newbie using two bottles of solution for the entire grow and things are looking pretty darn good. I basically left it with my friend at "show me you can do it better and I'd be happy to do as you suggest." Perhaps a little cocky on my part but homebrewers pictures were all the evidence I needed to know there's a better way. Thank goodness there's a few enlightened minds on this forum. Time to relax!



pshhh! I'll be the first to admit it. I've been doing this over a decade too. and thanks to threads like this i've learned i've been doing it wrong 

I'm very happy to admit that I can still learn a thing or two.


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## retrace (Mar 9, 2014)

Ok Im really not trying to be difficult but a little help would be great.

Also I think Homebrew and J.ride are awesome!!!

I have read all the Dyna-Gro post since 2010 and just want to find out what "Homebrewer" is using today as far as Dyna-Gro is concerned.

The only response I received was from J.ride who said "start with the maintenance dose and adjust from there" thanks but not very helpful.

Also here is a feeding schedule from someone else on the forums. Any feedback on this picture would be great.


Heres a feeding schedule from Homebrew from 2010.
But since then he has mentioned Foliage pro many times. So please could someone help.

*[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/358562-dyna-gro-vs-general-hydroponics-16.html[/FONT]*


 HomeBrewer "Having	almost one DG grow under my belt (so take that for what it's worth),	here is what I am feeding my AK47s off camera in mls/gallon:"
​
*Transition* (1250ppm for 2-3	weeks): 

Grow 3.5
Bloom 5
ProTekt 5
MagPro	1.5

*Bloom *(1350 ppm for 4-5 weeks):
Grow	2.5
Bloom 7.5
ProTekt 5
MagPro 1.5

*Ripen *(1250ppm	for 1-2 week):
Grow 0
Bloom 10.5
ProTekt 5 
MagPro	0

​


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## retrace (Mar 9, 2014)

Also I would like to share a schedule from "Ryan" an employee of Dyna-Gro (He is no longer there)

Just trying to add a little more value to this thread.



 He says...........
Foliage	Pro is more suited for MMJ then Grow is and this came from Ryan at	Dyna Gro before he left the company last year he set me up with	Foliage Pro, Mag Pro, K-L-N, and Protekt. This year I am thinking of	adding Gravity to the mix.

*Veg Cycle in 55	Gallons.*
Dyna Gro Foliage Pro 200 ml
Dyna Gro Mag Pro	100 ml
Dyna Gro K-L-N 150 ml
Dyna Gro ProTekt 150 ml
Age	Old Humic 12 200ml
Age Old Sea Kelp 100 ml
Endo Maxx 1 tsp per	gallon

*Bloom Cycle: I adjust the amount of Mag Pro	throughout the weeks of bloom cycle.*
Dyna Gro Foliage Pro	100 ml
Dyna Gro Mag Pro 200 ml
Dyna Gro ProTekt 150 ml
Age	Old Humic 12 200ml
Age Old Sea Kelp 100 ml
Endo Maxx 1 tsp per	gallon. I stop using this three weeks in too bloom.​


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## joe macclennan (Mar 9, 2014)

for me a 50/50 blend of gro/fol pro in veg with 1 ml/gallon protekt is rockin. @ ec of .6-.7

first two weeks of flower 50/50 same as above with 1 ml of bloom added ec of .7-.8

weeks 3-5 roughly 50/50 grow/bloom ec .8-.9

weeks 6-9 about 30/70 grow/bloom ec .9-1.0 

sealed f&d hydroton 3x/day flood w/co2 and room temps about 90f 60w/sq.ft lighting
edit: I am adding about 1/2 ml of magpro in flower but only to use it up. When it is gone i'm not going to be using it anymore. I don't think it is needed.

am running 80% ro water 20% ww


hth


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## homebrewer (Mar 9, 2014)

retrace said:


> Heres a feeding schedule from Homebrew from 2010.
> But since then he has mentioned Foliage pro many times. So please could someone help.
> 
> *https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/358562-dyna-gro-vs-general-hydroponics-16.html*
> ...


I don't do anything like the above 'schedule' anymore. I'm also hesitant to give out any specific numbers because what works for _me _and _my_ strains in _my _environment might not work for you. I use DG in promix _and_ hydro, have you mentioned your growing method yet?


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## retrace (Mar 10, 2014)

Homebrew

I would be growing in Coco.

Im a little confused as to why you dont want to tell anyone what your feeding schedule is.

I know that this all has to do with the Strain, humidity, temperature, lighting, PPM meters and CO2.

If you now have a secret formula that you use and dont want to tell anyone, I can respect that.

But a ton of people on this forum look up to you as a Expert Dyna-Gro grower and what your doing today
in regards to Dyna-Gro would be very helpful to a ton of us.

Thanks for all you have done on this forum.

Your still the best.


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## homebrewer (Mar 10, 2014)

retrace said:


> Homebrew
> 
> I would be growing in Coco.
> 
> ...


I could post a guideline as to how I feed but it's just that, a guideline. Your plants will tell you what they want and when they want it. But following someone else's feeding chart teaches you nothing about reading your plants or what your plants actually like. If you don't learn how to 'read your plants' and 'my schedule' stops working for you one day, how do you solve that problem? Scrap mine and start using another feeding chart? What happens if your environment or your medium or your water is the issue when you think it's the plant food? At that point you're just fumbling around in the dark with no real knowledge to help you through. 

For coco, I'd recommend RO water, Foliage pro and protekt from start to finish. As J.RIDE stated, start with the 'maintenance' directions written on the bottles and adjust from there. If you actually start using RO water, Foliage Pro and Protekt, you're already ahead of the curve. If you don't want to start with the 'maintenance directions' then feed at whatever EC/ppm is giving you good results right now.


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## j.ride (Mar 19, 2014)

retrace said:


> Also I think Homebrew and J.ride are awesome!!!
> 
> ...
> 
> The only response I received was from J.ride who said "start with the maintenance dose and adjust from there" thanks but not very helpful.


 Haha, I appreciate it but this is really all HB and those he learned from. All I have done is mixed some chemicals every once in a while, made sure to water every day, and snapped some pictures every now and then.

The sad thing is that I really don't know much about what I'm doing and I have been somewhat lazy about everything. The fact that things still look good is a testament to Dyna-Gro and the information HB has shared in this thread.

If youre still struggling with feeding charts and what to do, KISS really applies with Dyna-Gro. I've been using about 2/3 grow and 1/3 pro-tekt this whole time. Nothing else. I'm using tap water so my results can and probably will differ from yours. My bottle of grow is almost out and I will be switching over to foliage pro at that point. I haven't been doing it as an exact science and sometimes those values are a little off. I've been shooting for a ph of 6.3 and ppm around 700 for a few weeks now. Sometimes it's a little more, sometimes a little less. I bought cheap meters so who really knows but I do calibrate them every once in a while.

Again, I'm lazy about this and don't like doing unnecessary work. So I've been feeding all of my plants in both veg and different stages of bloom out of the same mix. This has got to be by far the greatest benefit of using one solution throughout. I probably could fine tune my mixture on a per plant or per week basis but what I have been doing is easy and seems to work. I may try getting a little fancier in the future but for me this will provide a great baseline.

Pictures below. It's day 47 I believe. The finish line is in sight. I've upgraded myself from my cell phone camera to an old point and shoot, though I still dont think its doing everything justice. I'm a learning 

I have a problem with bugs. I thought I had them under control but they took off yet again. Its nothing crazy, but theyre definitely around. I did a Pyrethrum fogger twice, 5 days apart. That dealt the buggers some damage but did not wipe them out. The plants seemed unaffected. There may have been some more orange hairs present afterwards but that could also just be the timing. I also kind of screwed up with this. The first round I did 3 hours before lights out and I turned off my ventilation. I figured, eh, theyve only got 3 hours to go, how hot can it get? Well. It got hot. My temps have been between 65-85F but that night it got to 107 for at least a while. There was no apparent damage besides the possible orange hairs but I learned my lesson. I hope it did not affect my yield. The hydro shop guy also said Do not use this after week 4. It is safe but it will cause you to have a premature harvest. The rebel in me said to hell with this guy, look at all the other crap/FUD he pushes but who knows. Looking back, it may not have been the smartest thing to do as Im trying to establish my baseline. 

I can see bugs being a big problem, especially with a perpetual harvest. Being that I'm potentially less than two weeks away from harvest I think I'll let my babies be and cross my fingers at this point. Ill probably start spraying more, earlier on, and this is definitely an area where my lack of expertise is showing. To his credit, my buddy has been a big help with this as his trained eyes can spot bugs that I did not see. Id probably be overrun at this point if it wasnt for him. 

That's all for now, I'll have another update soon!


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## homebrewer (Mar 19, 2014)

j.ride said:


> *I have a problem with bugs. I thought I had them under control but they took off yet again*. It&#8217;s nothing crazy, but they&#8217;re definitely around. I did a Pyrethrum fogger twice, 5 days apart. That dealt the buggers some damage but did not wipe them out. The plants seemed unaffected. There may have been some more orange hairs present afterwards but that could also just be the timing. I also kind of screwed up with this. The first round I did 3 hours before lights out and I turned off my ventilation. I figured, &#8220;eh, they&#8217;ve only got 3 hours to go, how hot can it get?&#8221; Well&#8230;. It got hot. My temps have been between 65-85F but that night it got to 107 for at least a while. There was no apparent damage besides the possible orange hairs but I learned my lesson. I hope it did not affect my yield. The hydro shop guy also said &#8220;Do not use this after week 4. It is safe but it will cause you to have a premature harvest.&#8221; The rebel in me said &#8220;to hell with this guy, look at all the other crap/FUD he pushes&#8221; but who knows. Looking back, it may not have been the smartest thing to do as I&#8217;m trying to establish my baseline.
> 
> I can see bugs being a big problem, especially with a perpetual harvest. Being that I'm potentially less than two weeks away from harvest I think I'll let my babies be and cross my fingers at this point. I&#8217;ll probably start spraying more, earlier on, and this is definitely an area where my lack of expertise is showing. To his credit, my buddy has been a big help with this as his trained eyes can spot bugs that I did not see. I&#8217;d probably be overrun at this point if it wasn&#8217;t for him.
> 
> That's all for now, I'll have another update soon!


It's easy to stay ahead of bugs, it's not so easy to fight them. Sweep, wipe surfaces down, clean your room and bugs will be cake to manage. I like to go on about plant food and all but environmental management is really the MOST important part of cultivating good meds. Live and learn but don't get lazy. 

Buds look good though!


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## jointed (Mar 19, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> It's easy to stay ahead of bugs, it's not so easy to fight them. Sweep, wipe surfaces down, clean your room and bugs will be cake to manage. I like to go on about plant food and all but environmental management is really the MOST important part of cultivating good meds. Live and learn but don't get lazy.
> 
> Buds look good though!


That's some damn good advice right there HB


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## MaineMooseRider (Mar 22, 2014)

Hello HB and community. I have been reading all the post but it will take awhile. I'm on page 103 at the moment. I am disabled from a failed back surgery, blah blah. My doc gave me a script and I am growing my own. I picked DWC 4 bucket, in a 4x4x6'8" tent. 600 watt ballast. I got an enclosed hood with a fan blowing air over bulb and out exhaust. I have a carbon filter setup but plant are only 21 days from when I put them in rock wool cubes and in the net pots. It took me the last six months saving to get everything to try and have a good first grow. I know I picked about the hardest way to grow but it was on purpose. I need something to make me get out of bed. Anyways I got a pH meter and have been keeping it between 5.7-6.2. I got a Dipstick ppm meter.

my concern. I changed water today in one plant and change another tomorrow in another. I put 5 tsp pro-TeTk and 4 tsp Grow(4 gallons per bucket) and the dip stick only shows ppm between 280-420(.7), 200-300(.5) EC0.4-0.6. Looking at the non-recirculating feeding schedule I have it looks like I'm running a little lean. I am trying to KISS and I am using only Dyna-Gro Grow, Bloom, Pro-TeTk and Mag-Pro. I didn't put any mag-pro in cause I am running from well water and I read something about only using it if running RO. It will be awhile before I can afford RO. There are a couple other things I need first. I don't think my plants look to bad but then I start second guessing thinking I see something. I have gone on and on and my apologies. Just learning and trying to do it as best I can and kind of wondering if I'm under feeding. I'm fairly sure I'm not over feeding. Here is my picture and Hello community.


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## MaineMooseRider (Mar 22, 2014)

Well I apologize, not sure why it is upside down. It's on my iPad and looks up right to me. I will try to figure it out. Sorry. Lol


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## homebrewer (Mar 23, 2014)

MaineMooseRider said:


> Hello HB and community. I have been reading all the post but it will take awhile. I'm on page 103 at the moment. I am disabled from a failed back surgery, blah blah. My doc gave me a script and I am growing my own. I picked DWC 4 bucket, in a 4x4x6'8" tent. 600 watt ballast. I got an enclosed hood with a fan blowing air over bulb and out exhaust. I have a carbon filter setup but plant are only 21 days from when I put them in rock wool cubes and in the net pots. It took me the last six months saving to get everything to try and have a good first grow. I know I picked about the hardest way to grow but it was on purpose. I need something to make me get out of bed. Anyways I got a pH meter and have been keeping it between 5.7-6.2. I got a Dipstick ppm meter.
> 
> my concern. I changed water today in one plant and change another tomorrow in another. *I put 5 tsp pro-TeTk and 4 tsp Grow(4 gallons per bucket) and the dip stick only shows ppm between 280-420(.7), 200-300(.5) EC0.4-0.6. *Looking at the non-recirculating feeding schedule I have it looks like I'm running a little lean. I am trying to KISS and I am using only Dyna-Gro Grow, Bloom, Pro-TeTk and Mag-Pro. I didn't put any mag-pro in cause I am running from well water and I read something about only using it if running RO. It will be awhile before I can afford RO. There are a couple other things I need first. I don't think my plants look to bad but then I start second guessing thinking I see something. I have gone on and on and my apologies. Just learning and trying to do it as best I can and kind of wondering if I'm under feeding. I'm fairly sure I'm not over feeding. Here is my picture and Hello community.
> 
> View attachment 3030875


That seems a little weak as 1tsp of Grow for me would be closer to 600ppm (.7). 

Plants look good though. I don't think you'll need that magpro.

Maybe top water them with some res water every day just to get them really going.


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## MaineMooseRider (Mar 23, 2014)

Hello HB. Thank you for responding. That's what I thought as well. I think there is something wrong with the Dip stick ppm meter. I will exchange the meter as soon as I can. I wish to Thank You for this thread about Dyna-Gro. It is fantastic. I can see many appreciate your experience and expertise and I am one of them. Thanks again


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## chuck estevez (Mar 23, 2014)

MaineMooseRider said:


> Hello HB. Thank you for responding. That's what I thought as well. I think there is something wrong with the Dip stick ppm meter. I will exchange the meter as soon as I can. I wish to Thank You for this thread about Dyna-Gro. It is fantastic. I can see many appreciate your experience and expertise and I am one of them. Thanks again


 in the bottom left corner, there is a little star, hit that on HB's post and give him some rep.


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## MaineMooseRider (Mar 23, 2014)

Thank you, didn't know about that feature. HB certainly deserves the recognition for his work.


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## j.ride (Mar 26, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> It's easy to stay ahead of bugs, it's not so easy to fight them. Sweep, wipe surfaces down, clean your room and bugs will be cake to manage. I like to go on about plant food and all but environmental management is really the MOST important part of cultivating good meds. Live and learn but don't get lazy.
> 
> Buds look good though!


Thanks for the tips. I think I adverted disaster this time around but I now see how fast things can spiral downwards and get out of hand. 

These will probably be my last pictures before I harvest and I think things are still looking good. Things are getting very sticky and very frosty. A couple of plants have started to show a little yellowing at the edges of the leaves but the vast majority of everything is still green.

I pinched off a couple of nugs for my buddy to sample. He has been very weary of my not wanting to flush, among everything else. It's like I've been fighting him every step of the way.... and it's exhausting. At this point all I can do is roll my eyes and smile.

The samples did get a very good review. He was impressed with the smell, taste, looks and the effect. He did say one had a bit of a sizzle and went on about why we need to flush. Can a sizzle be attributed to not flushing? Can proper curing take care of this?

Being as the samples were taken at not even 7 weeks and before I have started to taper down the nutrients, I'm going to stick with my original plan and not flush. Some of these strains might need longer than the 8 weeks but I like the idea of sticking to a stricter schedule for now. This is something I may play with in the future, along with doing multiple harvests off of the same plant.

Even after all of this and seeing the success with his own eyes, I do not think my buddy will be switching from his current nutrient line. It's not my goal to get him to switch and I really don't care what he does on his own, but I find the psychological aspect of it fascinating. It's like there's a part of his animal brain that refuses to acknowledge the truth in this matter. Maybe it's going "if he can do this his first time with a one part solution, think what I can accomplish with my 8 bottles when I get things dialed in again!" Or perhaps it's something like "Dyna-Gro is awesome for newbies, no doubt about it. But I'm past that stage. Advanced growers use complicated feeding charts and don't need dumbed down one part solutions." Human behavior can be most interesting. 

I think this grow has been an incredible success and I will post some yield numbers and reviews of the final product when I have them. I'm really excited. Thank you again homebrewer for your diligent comparisons and for sharing your wisdom.


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## homebrewer (Mar 27, 2014)

j.ride said:


> Thanks for the tips. I think I adverted disaster this time around but I now see how fast things can spiral downwards and get out of hand.
> 
> These will probably be my last pictures before I harvest and I think things are still looking good. Things are getting very sticky and very frosty. A couple of plants have started to show a little yellowing at the edges of the leaves but the vast majority of everything is still green.
> 
> ...


One honestly can't judge anything by an uncured sample of premature bud. Though I suppose it's a good thing that it's already good.

It's my theory that any sizzle in your bowl is caused by either water and/or unfermented plant sugars. A proper cure is important. 




> Even after all of this and seeing the success with his own eyes, I do not think my buddy will be switching from his current nutrient line. It's not my goal to get him to switch and I really don't care what he does on his own, but I find the psychological aspect of it fascinating. It's like there's a part of his animal brain that refuses to acknowledge the truth in this matter. Maybe it's going "if he can do this his first time with a one part solution, think what I can accomplish with my 8 bottles when I get things dialed in again!" Or perhaps it's something like "Dyna-Gro is awesome for newbies, no doubt about it. But I'm past that stage. Advanced growers use complicated feeding charts and don't need dumbed down one part solutions." Human behavior can be most interesting.
> 
> I think this grow has been an incredible success and I will post some yield numbers and reviews of the final product when I have them. I'm really excited. Thank you again homebrewer for your diligent comparisons and for sharing your wisdom.


While your plants look good, finish out the process with a good dry and a 1 month cure. Let your buddy sample your stuff _then_ and then ask him what he thinks about 'one-part veg nutes' during flower. Producing top quality cannabis is only partially about the plant food though; a stress-free life cycle, a patient harvest and a proper cure are crucial parts of the equation. Personally I think DG makes the 'stress-free life cycle' part a lot easier. 

Overall though, I think you've got some tweaks to make but you're doing a fine job there already.


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## Samcro4 (Mar 27, 2014)

HB,
I have been lurking for about 6 months trying to absorb as much info as I could. Finally signed up for an account this month because RIU wont display pics to non members. I am knew to growing mj and in the process of vegging my first grow. Spent ALOT of time researching my set up, then moved on to research growing after reading Jorge's MJ bible. Anyway, I just wanted to chime in and say thank you. I have been following you, Uncle Ben, and some others. There is sooooo much misinformation and disinformation out there. It's like I've learned and relearned the same things 50 times in 50 different ways from 50 different guys. But thanks to the no bs common sense approach you guys incorporate I feel like I've built a good foundation of the basics which allows me to apply critical thinking to what I read and hear. It allows me to choose who and what I want to believe based on the information available to me. 

Anyway, thanks from a new guy. It can't be easy answering the same questions from new guys like me everyday. But without guys like yourself sharing knowledge and experience guys like me looking to learn would be learning some bad practices. Thanks for giving back to the community. I still have alot of reading to do, and I am keeping my fingers crossed I don't run into any major problems on my first grow. But I am confident I will get better at it each time. It's like anything else in life.


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## homebrewer (Mar 27, 2014)

Samcro4 said:


> HB,
> I have been lurking for about 6 months trying to absorb as much info as I could. Finally signed up for an account this month because RIU wont display pics to non members. I am knew to growing mj and in the process of vegging my first grow. Spent ALOT of time researching my set up, then moved on to research growing after reading Jorge's MJ bible. Anyway, I just wanted to chime in and say thank you. I have been following you, Uncle Ben, and some others. There is sooooo much misinformation and disinformation out there. It's like I've learned and relearned the same things 50 times in 50 different ways from 50 different guys. But thanks to the no bs common sense approach you guys incorporate I feel like I've built a good foundation of the basics which allows me to apply critical thinking to what I read and hear. It allows me to choose who and what I want to believe based on the information available to me.
> 
> Anyway, thanks from a new guy. It can't be easy answering the same questions from new guys like me everyday. But without guys like yourself sharing knowledge and experience guys like me looking to learn would be learning some bad practices. Thanks for giving back to the community. I still have alot of reading to do, and I am keeping my fingers crossed I don't run into any major problems on my first grow. But I am confident I will get better at it each time. It's like anything else in life.


Glad I could help!


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## jointed (Mar 28, 2014)

Hi HB..Thanks again for hookin me up bro...wink wink..


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## joe macclennan (Mar 28, 2014)

yup, your advice has been invaluable 

It's amazing that I was doing things so wrong...for so long  lol. 

the grass is indeed greener on the other side


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## Samcro4 (Mar 28, 2014)

I change my waterfarm buckets once every 6 days. I have ALOT of them. Did not want to go with the big Rez in the beginning because I figured if I screwed up, hopefully it would be localized. There are a couple other reasons: heard a whole connected system is really hard to clean, and I would have to come up w some type of work around on how to drain that bic Rez as opposed to picking up an individual bucket and bringing it to where I empty my waste water. 

Anyway, I am using Advanced nutes 3 part. I am def gonna switch to dyna gro once I run out, but they came with the buckets so I went with it. Plus, there is some flexibility in mixing desired macros with the 3 part as opposed to other nute systems out there. I premix 5 gallon buckets with the nutes, and I have gone light on nutes from the beginning because I read Sensi Star is nute sensitive. I've been succesful thus far. 

My girls are to the point in veg where they are really starting to drink. By day 6, they've drank a little over a half gallon. My EC reading at that point is higher than I'd like at 1.8 (approximately), and my ph goes up from 5.8 after the fresh change to the low to mid 6 range. 

Do you guys typically just add water to top off your buckets mid week or do you mix your nutes and add water and nutes with same ratio you started off the week, or do you just leave it until your change at day 6?

i have just been waiting to do a complete change on day 6. I have not run into any major issues. I have experienced some burn on the tips of a few leaves on only a few plants out of many. And it's literally just the tip, about 1 cm in from the point of the leaf. At the same time, my girls are just starting to really feed and I can see this problem compounding. 

I am thinking about topping them off with water only mid week. I know it will dilute my solution, bring down my EC, and raise my ph, but I feel like its a safe option. I could remix some 5 gallon buckets and top it off w my complete solution, but then I would have to get some exact measurements on the individual buckets to make sure I don't burn my girls. 

In your experience, what would you do or what have you done in this situation? Complete change mid week? Just add water? Measure your macros and proceed accordingly on individual buckets?


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## joe macclennan (Mar 28, 2014)

sometimes I add water, but rarely add nutes after initial mix


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## Lucius Vorenus (Mar 29, 2014)

Any of you using pure coco and FP? If so what has been your success?


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## Samcro4 (Mar 31, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> sometimes I add water, but rarely add nutes after initial mix


I take measurements when changing my nutes every 6 days. Based on the readings, my plants are mostly drinking water. Ph is remaining pretty stable, but ppm is jumping up about 300 points, and the girls are drinking about a half gallon of h20


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## j.ride (Apr 7, 2014)

Just a quick update, everything got chopped and is looking good. I'll have more info on the specifics in a week or so.

Also, if anyone wants a little laugh on this Monday morning: http://bigbudsmag.com/marijuana-hydroponics-nutrients-organic-fertilizers-Canna-Botanicare


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## MrEDuck (Apr 7, 2014)

Samcro4 said:


> I take measurements when changing my nutes every 6 days. Based on the readings, my plants are mostly drinking water. Ph is remaining pretty stable, but ppm is jumping up about 300 points, and the girls are drinking about a half gallon of h20


If your ppm is rising like that it means the nute solution is too concentrated and the plants are using energy to suck up more water. Energy that would be better used growing. Look for your EC to remain stable and the plants will reward you.


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## Samcro4 (Apr 8, 2014)

MrEDuck said:


> If your ppm is rising like that it means the nute solution is too concentrated and the plants are using energy to suck up more water. Energy that would be better used growing. Look for your EC to remain stable and the plants will reward you.


Thanks. I am going to drop the nutes by 10% each Rez change until I find the sweet spot as far as concentration goes. I already use 10% less than called for, but this is the answer I was looking for. Thank, bud.


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## MrEDuck (Apr 8, 2014)

I'd say if you're seeing a 300ppm spike over a week you can probably start with more like a 25% drop. What is your starting concentration and where does it climb to?
Nute companies generally advise crazy high doses...


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## joe macclennan (Apr 8, 2014)

agree with mr duck


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## Samcro4 (Apr 10, 2014)

MrEDuck said:


> I'd say if you're seeing a 300ppm spike over a week you can probably start with more like a 25% drop. What is your starting concentration and where does it climb to?
> Nute companies generally advise crazy high doses...


I start at 1100 and usually wind up around 14. I've been running a little over 10% light on the nutes as is because I've read Sensi Star is very nute sensitive. So I guess this proves what I've read about that strain to be true. 

This last week I've just been topping off the reservoir with ph'd water since the girls are drinking more and I can't wait the full week to do a complete change. I topped them off 3 times this week. Did the Rez change tonight. Ppms @1400 or a little higher even after adding water a few times during the week. So these girls must REALLY like there water.


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## jointed (Apr 10, 2014)

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0316064615891.html?14

Hey Sam give this a gander bro..

Be sure to read the link ( fertilizing container plants) at the bottom of the OP's first post

This might help you to understand why your plants are drinking so much water...cheers


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## MrEDuck (Apr 10, 2014)

Samcro4 said:


> I start at 1100 and usually wind up around 14. I've been running a little over 10% light on the nutes as is because I've read Sensi Star is very nute sensitive. So I guess this proves what I've read about that strain to be true.
> 
> This last week I've just been topping off the reservoir with ph'd water since the girls are drinking more and I can't wait the full week to do a complete change. I topped them off 3 times this week. Did the Rez change tonight. Ppms @1400 or a little higher even after adding water a few times during the week. So these girls must REALLY like there water.


Is that 0.5 or 0.7 scale? Even on 0.7 that's about 1.5EC which seems high to me especially for a strain that's sensitive to nutes. I'd try knocking that down to 800ppm and seeing how they do from there.


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## Samcro4 (Apr 10, 2014)

MrEDuck said:


> Is that 0.5 or 0.7 scale? Even on 0.7 that's about 1.5EC which seems high to me especially for a strain that's sensitive to nutes. I'd try knocking that down to 800ppm and seeing how they do from there.



Thanks for the link, Jointed. Gonna read that right now. And thanks for the feedback mrE. 

It's on the .5 scale that I take my readings. I dropped my ppm down to 770 this week. And I will be interested to see what my readings are at the end of the week. 

I am switching over to flower at the end of the week, and I am going to switch over to dynagro bloom. The nutes I have now came with my system so I wanted to use them. 

But I am not going to go spend an extra 400 on additives like big bud and overdrive when HB just ran a side by side w ANs best product and dynagro won fair and square. Besides HB, alot of you other vets suggest the dynagro and it makes sense to me to follow the KISS formula. 

Thanks for the help guys.​


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## homebrewer (Apr 10, 2014)

Samcro4 said:


> Thanks for the link, Jointed. Gonna read that right now. And thanks for the feedback mrE.
> 
> It's on the .5 scale that I take my readings. I dropped my ppm down to 770 this week. And I will be interested to see what my readings are at the end of the week.
> 
> ...


Two things: your ppm/EC is way too high for veg. That's what you're discussing here with the ppm rising, right? Secondly, DG bloom is only useful in hydro when used with DG grow or foliage pro. Start at 50/50, maybe scale more towards bloom as the flowering cycle progresses? Your plants will tell you what to do.


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## Samcro4 (Apr 11, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> Two things: your ppm/EC is way too high for veg. That's what you're discussing here with the ppm rising, right? Secondly, DG bloom is only useful in hydro when used with DG grow or foliage pro. Start at 50/50, maybe scale more towards bloom as the flowering cycle progresses? Your plants will tell you what to do.


Ok. Thanks. I've been following the chart that comes with the GH 3 part for DWC. I'm using the watermfarm drip systems w air stones. . I've been going light on the nutes itfollowing the weekly chart none the less. I don't understand why they would give you instructions that are so far off. 

My girls are very healthy. No nute burn. Deep green color, growing rapidly, and look great in general. But maybe they are just really durable because it sounds like I've been over feeding them the whole time. And I thought I was going liking at 10% under what is called for. 

I was thinking about going foliage pro, bloom, and protekt. I'm glad you mentioned this, because sales associate at the hydro store told me that I could switch right over to dyna bloom no problem. This was after she tried to sell me on big bud and overdrive. 

In your experience, would you switch nutes going into flower next week or should I ride it out with the GH 3 part and buy all of the AN additives for flower? Based on your side by side grow, I'd much rather transition to dyna if you don't think that's a problem. But I need to make a decision within the next 3 days.


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## MrEDuck (Apr 11, 2014)

IME even half the listed suggest dose is more than the plants want. Nute companies want you using as much as possible.
Even if you decide not to get the DG for flower I wouldn't buy all of the Advanced Ripoff additives. I've seen plenty of people do well with the GH 3 part w/o snake oils.


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## homebrewer (Apr 11, 2014)

Samcro4 said:


> Ok. Thanks. I've been following the chart that comes with the GH 3 part for DWC. I'm using the watermfarm drip systems w air stones. . I've been going light on the nutes itfollowing the weekly chart none the less. I don't understand why they would give you instructions that are so far off.
> 
> My girls are very healthy. No nute burn. Deep green color, growing rapidly, and look great in general. But maybe they are just really durable because it sounds like I've been over feeding them the whole time. And I thought I was going liking at 10% under what is called for.
> 
> ...


My bad, I just realized you're using a 3-part, please disregard my previous post on the DG bottles. I was _high_ly medicated on some kali mist last night.


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## Samcro4 (Apr 11, 2014)

MrEDuck said:


> IME even half the listed suggest dose is more than the plants want. Nute companies want you using as much as possible.
> Even if you decide not to get the DG for flower I wouldn't buy all of the Advanced Ripoff additives. I've seen plenty of people do well with the GH 3 part w/o snake oils.


Thanks, brother. Funny thing is, I asked the sales associate what so special about big bud and overdrive. I said you could reach the macros listed in the products contents on your own, so what is it that really sets those nutes apart. What's the science behind it? She proceeded to tell me that "they increase the resin production in your to tomatoes, and make them twice as big." That was it. I could tell she was struggling. 

It's not her fault. She's just trying to do her job. Clearly, the owner of the store doesn't think that educating his employees on what they are selling is important. 

I'm going to pick up the dyna bloom, and run it along with my 3 part. I am a little confused as to what macros I should try to hit though. I'm going to try to hit HB's instructions:
"I've seen the best yields across all strains from dynagro's roughly 1-3-2 ratio (which is what results when I mix grow and bloom). It just seems to be a nice balance.... Feed 1.2 EC 20% of that is grow w remaining 80% mostly bloom. Might cut back the gro week 7 but most of the time run till harvest. Don't need as much n towards end after grow and stretch to keep it green....."

I paraphrased some. But have a lot of notes from HB, UB, and others. So I plan to approach flower this way to keep it simple: 1-3-2 or as close as I can and I try to keep the leaves green. I realize there will be some trial and error for me in order to learn. Want to keep it simple, don't want to make a fundamental mistake though. 

I've already learned alot about my girls. For example if I keep the humidity over 50 and the day temp at 75 or below, I see some awesome results. When the day temp gets above 75 they slow down significantly. When humidity is below 50 they also slow. But I have one of this temp/humidity monitors and played with both variables a bit and found their "dialed in" climate. Trying to get the nutes dialed in has been much more of a challenge. It's fun trying to figure it out.


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## jointed (Apr 11, 2014)

Good on ya sam, sounds like your on a very good path..


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## joe macclennan (Apr 12, 2014)

Samcro4 said:


> Thanks, brother. Funny thing is, I asked the sales associate what so special about big bud and overdrive. I said you could reach the macros listed in the products contents on your own, so what is it that really sets those nutes apart. What's the science behind it? She proceeded to tell me that "they increase the resin production in your to tomatoes, and make them twice as big." That was it. I could tell she was struggling.
> 
> It's not her fault. She's just trying to do her job. Clearly, the owner of the store doesn't think that educating his employees on what they are selling is important.
> .


stories like this are why I feel so fortunate to have a good guy @ the store I go to. He is actually a biology major in his third year specializing in botany...The guy knows his stuff. and he's a huge pothead and grower  

but i've had to explain to him about how effective dynagro is....I've actually converted HIM from botanicare lol  

my store is stopping carrying the advanced line  ......yes, I really am fortunate to have an honest hydro store


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## chrisinamsterdam (Apr 13, 2014)

Hi Home Brewer,

I've never posted before, but I've been growing in soil for many years (pro-mix to be precise). Thanks for all the information in this thread. I have a few questions:

1. Are you following DynaGro's feedchart? I ask because I have tap water of 150ppm, and when I added 12ml/gallon of Bloom (as directed by the feed chart) my total ppm was only 780. This seems very low, particularly for a hydroponic application. It's important to note that I did not add MagPro or ProTekt.

2. Was this a hydro to hydro comparison? I seem to remember reading that your DynaGro plants were in a soil mix. Sorry if I got that wrong. I am considering using a CAP ebb and grow if I switch to hydro, but would love to stick with pro-mix if I can get my yield up. I have a 4x4 flower area, so I could also potentially do a SOG with 25, 36, or 49 plants.

3. Do you suppose DynaGro will increase my pro-mix yields, or would a switch to a hydroponic application be the larger factor.

4. If using in hydroponics, MUST I use the grow in addition? What are your hydro/soil ppm levels?

Many thanks, and congrats.


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## Maya36459 (Apr 13, 2014)

Love Dyna Grow. Been using it for years. Sometimes I'll switch to Rock but usual I'll end back at Dyna Grow.


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## homebrewer (Apr 13, 2014)

chrisinamsterdam said:


> Hi Home Brewer,
> 
> I've never posted before, but I've been growing in soil for many years (pro-mix to be precise). Thanks for all the information in this thread. I have a few questions:
> 
> ...


1. No, I don't use their feed chart. 12ml/gallon is way too much and your ppm reading is likely on the .5 scale. 

2. Hydro to hydro comparison. 

3. Depends on what food you're using now in promix. Foliage pro in promix kills it. 

4. You want to use grow in hydro along with bloom for the best results. Their bloom has too little N and too much P. My hydro/soil ppm/EC levels vary with the stage of growth.


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## chrisinamsterdam (Apr 13, 2014)

Thanks!

How much of each do you add per gallon? Why would the feed chart have such overblown numbers? Wouldn't they have looked into that?

What is the highest concentration of nutrients in your flowering period?


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## MrEDuck (Apr 13, 2014)

chrisinamsterdam said:


> Thanks!
> 
> How much of each do you add per gallon? Why would the feed chart have such overblown numbers? Wouldn't they have looked into that?


Because they're in the business of selling nutrients so the more you use the more you'll buy.


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## chrisinamsterdam (Apr 13, 2014)

MrEDuck said:


> Because they're in the business of selling nutrients so the more you use the more you'll buy.


I understand that, but it's not as if folks wouldn't catch on after frying their crops. I'm just trying to figure out what the proper DynaGro ppm is, considering the average nutrient solution is somewhere around 1000.


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## j.ride (Apr 13, 2014)

chrisinamsterdam said:


> I understand that, but it's not as if folks wouldn't catch on after frying their crops. I'm just trying to figure out what the proper DynaGro ppm is, considering the average nutrient solution is somewhere around 1000.


The funny thing is that folks don't catch on. Marketing is a powerful thing. People fry their crops and instead of taking a step back and reevaluating everything they go "oh no, I must need MORE stuff." Then they go buy an expensive bottle of who knows what and pray. At least that's my limited experience.

Like Samcro4 asked the store lady, what's so special about big bud? As far as I know it's just concentrated phosphorus and potassium or something like that. IMO your base nute should provide you with a good ratio to start at or you've got even bigger worries. Now if these boosters had some magical chemical/hormone/wizard piss then that would be one thing but it seems to me that 95% of these boosters are just a mix of certain micro/macros along with possible aminos and carbs that you probably don't need.


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## MrEDuck (Apr 13, 2014)

chrisinamsterdam said:


> I understand that, but it's not as if folks wouldn't catch on after frying their crops. I'm just trying to figure out what the proper DynaGro ppm is, considering the average nutrient solution is somewhere around 1000.


Wherever your plants are drinking nutrient solution at the same rate as water. It varies plant to plant though.


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## homebrewer (Apr 13, 2014)

chrisinamsterdam said:


> Thanks!
> 
> How much of each do you add per gallon? Why would the feed chart have such overblown numbers? Wouldn't they have looked into that?
> 
> What is the highest concentration of nutrients in your flowering period?


How much do I add per gallon? I'm not sure how knowing that is going to help YOUR plants in YOUR environment. Read through the last 20-30 pages of this thread, I'm positive you'll find some answers. In the end, you're going to have to do what works best for you in terms of feeding strength and frequency. There are about 5 factors that I can immediately think of that affect how much one should feed their plants. Unless you're growing plants in MY room, MY numbers wont be much help. 


*What is the highest concentration of nutrients in your flowering period?*

You should be feeding your plants the MINIMUM amount they need for healthy, deficiency-free growth.


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## jointed (Apr 14, 2014)

LOL..sounds like were coming round the bend...next up: Learning to read our plants.

Not to be a smart-ass, but it's true and a very important part of growing...cheers


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## joe macclennan (Apr 14, 2014)

chrisinamsterdam said:


> Thanks!
> 
> How much of each do you add per gallon? Why would the feed chart have such overblown numbers? Wouldn't they have looked into that?
> 
> What is the highest concentration of nutrients in your flowering period?





homebrewer said:


> How much do I add per gallon? I'm not sure how knowing that is going to help YOUR plants in YOUR environment. Read through the last 20-30 pages of this thread, I'm positive you'll find some answers. In the end, you're going to have to do what works best for you in terms of feeding strength and frequency. There are about 5 factors that I can immediately think of that affect how much one should feed their plants. Unless you're growing plants in MY room, MY numbers wont be much help.
> 
> 
> *What is the highest concentration of nutrients in your flowering period?*
> ...



lol

@cristerdam what he is saying is you shouldn't worry about exactly what other ppl. are running. What matters is what your plants want.

i've found anywhere between 1.1 -1.5 ec is about right in flower with co2.

age and strain dependent for dynagro. You need to experiment a bit to find that sweet spot. and also experiment a bit with ratios of grow/bloom/foliage pro


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## chrisinamsterdam (Apr 14, 2014)

Thanks folks. I may have been misunderstood. I have been growing in soil for ten years and do it very well--it's just that I have a small space (4x4) and a desire to max out the space wherever possible. I've never used DynaGro before, and bought some because of this thread. That's why I have so many "dumb" questions.


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## jointed (Apr 14, 2014)

Hey Chris I just started using DynaGro FP 9-3-6 plus Protekt and am growing in MG organic choice. Most of my veggers get 1 tsp per gal of FP and 1/2 tsp of Protekt, but my 70's uknown strain was still yellowing so I bumped her slowly up to 1 tbls per gal to get and keep her green hell my flowering plants are eating 1 1/2 tsp - 1 tbsp per gal with 1/2 tsp of protekt added.

I think the reason is because my mix is heavy on bark, but I like the way my girls grow in it so I just roll with it.

Anyways I think ya just have to set a baseline based on plant age and vigor and go from there..cheers bro


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## Samcro4 (Apr 24, 2014)

Hey fellas,
I've got a quick question. I dropped my nute solution down as suggested to get to the 1.2-1.5 EC. I started 12/12 this week under 1000 watt hps. Day temp is 78 night temp is 70. 

My girls are starting to look like they are getting too hot. The leaves are curling around the edges a little and almost folding up like a canoe. Not as drastic as that, but that's the best way to describe the shape. My humidity is up at 60-70, which I am going to knock down next week. But since its only the first week of 12/12 Im not worried about mold. Plants are about 36 inches away from the hoods. 

Do you guys think this is from the lights making the girls too hot? Should I get some more air movement with more fans? Or when you switch your girls to 12/12 do you guys experience this as well? 

My temp is good, distance from the lights is good, so the only thing I can think of is I need more air movement or e change of nute concentration has not had a positive affect. 

Any suggestions or experience w this?


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## Samcro4 (May 7, 2014)

I have a question that may be simple to you guys, but I'm having a little trouble with it:

I will try to keep it as simple as possible. I am trying maintain HB's 1-3-2 macro suggestion. If 80% of my nute mix is dynagro bloom (3-12-6) and 20% is dyna gro liquid gro at 7-9-5, how do you simplify down to your actual macros since you aren't combining equal parts of each?

My Target EC is 1.5


Below is some info I got from a dynagro rep. I am sure you guys have already figured this out on your own. But it may help others in the future so figured I'd share. 

5ml bloom/gallon water = 350ppm
5ml protekt/gallon water = 160ppm
5ml MagPro/gallon water= 340ppm

Thanks for the help


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## homebrewer (May 8, 2014)

Samcro4 said:


> I will try to keep it as simple as possible. I am trying maintain HB's 1-3-2 macro suggestion. If 80% of my nute mix is dynagro bloom (3-12-6) and 20% is dyna gro liquid gro at 7-9-5, how do you simplify down to your actual macros since you aren't combining equal parts of each?
> 
> Thanks for the help


So you're using 4 parts bloom to 1 part grow, this is how I calculate the final ratio:

4 parts bloom equals 12-48-24 (that's 3-12-6 multiplied by 4)
1 part Grow equals 7-9-5 (that's 7-9-5 multiplied by 1)

Add them:
(12-48-24)
(7-9-5) +
(19-57-29)

Then divide by 5 (because you're using a total of 5 parts):

(3.8-11.4-5.8 )

Divide the above three numbers by the lowest number, in this case it's 3.8:

Your final ratio is (1-3-1.5). Add some protekt in there and you're pretty damn close to a 1-3-2.


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## MrEDuck (May 8, 2014)

Growing: making stoners learn math


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## jointed (May 8, 2014)

Thats what sets HB above the rest of us LOL he gots math skills


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## Samcro4 (May 8, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> So you're using 4 parts bloom to 1 part grow, this is how I calculate the final ratio:
> 
> 4 parts bloom equals 12-48-24 (that's 3-12-6 multiplied by 4)
> 1 part Grow equals 7-9-5 (that's 7-9-5 multiplied by 1)
> ...


Thanks, HB. That was a lot more simple than I thought it would be. Not sure why I thought it would be some crazy equation. Then again, math has never been my strong suit. 

Week 3 of 12/12 starts tomorrow. Half the girls stretched and are lookin great. The other half stayed somewhat squatty and are darker green. Must have given them too much N. Strange that its literally half and half though. 

When I change nutes tomorrow I am going to only use GH bloom for the squatty darker plants. (0-5-4). See if I can get those girls to balance out, use up the extra N, and stretch to the size and color of the others. I will monitor them closely for the next few days to see if my diagnosis and treatment is correct. If they weren't so green I would chalk it up to different pheno. But looks like too much N. hopefully, addressing it this early in flower will allow the plants enough time to catch up with the others. Or maybe I am too late. Not sure. Either way its a learning experience. 

Do you guys think I am too late? Or is it possible to make up lost ground this early in flower? Feel like I missed the stretch window.


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## homebrewer (May 10, 2014)

You're all familiar with _Big Buds magazine_, right? Well then I'm sure you're also aware that this rag is owned by Advanced Nutrients. 

This link was posted at another forum and I just had to post it here in case anyone is looking for a good laugh:

http://bigbudsmag.com/marijuana-hydroponics-nutrients-organic-fertilizers-Canna-Botanicare

High quality plant food manufacturers like GH, DynaGro, House & Garden, Jacks/Peters, etc. don't need to talk sh*t about the competition because their products do the talking for them. AN on the other hand is constantly playing that sh*t talking game while simultaneously spreading more bad info than the newbs on these forums. 

As long as AN continues to be a poison to this hobby, I'll continue to attempt to educate folks on the concept that flashy labels and high price tags don't mean anything as it's all about the guaranteed analysis.


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## stevegreens (May 11, 2014)

Homebrewer,

Took your advice and did the DG FP half and half with DG bloom until the last few weeks added a little more bloom. Turned out great with the hydro setup.

Though I have larger trees in sunshine I would like to change over to DG as well but didn't see threads in the different way you approached the sunshine or other soiless mix.

Do you treat it the same as far as ec and feeding schedule? If not can you point me in the right direction?

Thanks


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## homebrewer (May 11, 2014)

stevegreens said:


> Homebrewer,
> 
> Took your advice and did the DG FP half and half with DG bloom until the last few weeks added a little more bloom. Turned out great with the hydro setup.
> 
> ...


I like foliage pro in promix/sunshine mix and i'd recommend feeding at whatever EC/ppm that's giving you good results now. OR you could start with their maintenance directions on their bottles.


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## stevegreens (May 11, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> I like foliage pro in promix/sunshine mix and i'd recommend feeding at whatever EC/ppm that's giving you good results now. OR you could start with their maintenance directions on their bottles.


Do you do the 50 % bloom 50 % Foilage pro during bloom for the soiless as well? Or do you just recommend there feed schedule? I know you said you thought it was high at times but wasn't sure where. Also I am assuming it would be the drain to waste schedule since it's soiless. 

Thanks Again


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## homebrewer (May 11, 2014)

stevegreens said:


> *Do you do the 50 % bloom 50 % Foilage pro during bloom for the soiless as well? *Or do you just recommend there feed schedule? I know you said you thought it was high at times but wasn't sure where. Also I am assuming it would be the drain to waste schedule since it's soiless.
> 
> Thanks Again


No. I just use protekt and foliage pro in promix. I also don''t follow their schedule as it's too strong.


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## THCfingers (May 11, 2014)

Nice grow I like seeing the side by sides. I am doing one of those myself over at https://www.rollitup.org/t/general-hydroponics-vs-botanicare-which-will-prevail.824339/page-2#post-10491359. I have 4 lights inside a tent 2 of them are being grown with General Hydropoincs flora series and the other two lights with Botanicare KIND series. I also lollipopped one GH and KIND really high and one kinda high to see how that affects weight. I am in the last week and its hard to tell which will do better but I think KIND is going to win, and by win I mean produce the most. I am using this program GrowBuddy (growbuddy.com) to help track and compare this grow and it has been awesome to use when sharing what I am doing for the week, check it out I would like to see you stuff displayed out like that. For my next one I am going to do the same grow, make some adjustments to when I started seeing deficiencies, and use CO2 the whole time. Thanks for sharing everything, it is very informative.


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## homebrewer (May 11, 2014)

THCfingers said:


> Nice grow I like seeing the side by sides. I am doing one of those myself over at https://www.rollitup.org/t/general-hydroponics-vs-botanicare-which-will-prevail.824339/page-2#post-10491359. I have 4 lights inside a tent 2 of them are being grown with General Hydropoincs flora series and the other two lights with Botanicare KIND series. I also lollipopped one GH and KIND really high and one kinda high to see how that affects weight. I am in the last week and its hard to tell which will do better but I think KIND is going to win, and by win I mean produce the most. I am using this program GrowBuddy (growbuddy.com) to help track and compare this grow and it has been awesome to use when sharing what I am doing for the week, check it out I would like to see you stuff displayed out like that. For my next one I am going to do the same grow, make some adjustments to when I started seeing deficiencies, and use CO2 the whole time. Thanks for sharing everything, it is very informative.



Those plants look good, nice job!


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## stevegreens (May 12, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> No. I just use protekt and foliage pro in promix. I also don''t follow their schedule as it's too strong.


No Bloom? Just steady foilage pro and silica all the way through flower?


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## MrEDuck (May 12, 2014)

stevegreens said:


> No Bloom? Just steady foilage pro and silica all the way through flower?


Yeah plants in soilless really don't need very much P in flower.


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## stevegreens (May 12, 2014)

MrEDuck said:


> Yeah plants in soilless really don't need very much P in flower.


Good to know. Thanks


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## Samcro4 (May 22, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> Those plants look good, nice job!


HB,

Goin into week 5 12/12. (As a refresher, Im using the 80/20 dynagro mix you prefer.)

Girls are doing well but I'm starting to get some leaves yellowing. My EC has been around 1.5 which has kept them looking green and healthy. I'd say about 5% yellowing on the plants that are actually experiencing this. I read you like to keep them green until harvest. So I'm a little worried my girls are using up their stored food too prematurely 

I was thinking about giving the girls an N boost with some GH micro. Was just going to add about 2ml/gallon of the micro to get some N in there. Since they have used up some of the stored N too early do you think I should continue to give them a small Maintanance dose of N all the way through now?

Can I recover from this? I realize its not end of the world but I'm hoping I didn't accelerate the maturation process and lose out on some bud growth.


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## homebrewer (May 22, 2014)

Samcro4 said:


> HB,
> 
> Goin into week 5 12/12. (As a refresher, Im using the 80/20 dynagro mix you prefer.)
> 
> ...



1.5EC is stronger than I go but do whatever works for you. Just stay the course and see if that 80/20 continues to give you a few yellow leaves. If it does then try 70/30, tweak as needed.


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## Samcro4 (May 22, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> 1.5EC is stronger than I go but do whatever works for you. Just stay the course and see if that 80/20 continues to give you a few yellow leaves. If it does then try 70/30, tweak as needed.


Ok. I will drop it down a couple tenths, stick w 80/20, and see how they respond. Thanks. I was wondering after I wrote that if maybe I was dealing w some lockout issues because i let the water level get lower than usual. So I think that approach as well as possibly changing to 70/30 is a better plan than adding some GH micro for the N. 

I'm still trying to figure it out as its my first run. Wanna keep it simple and limit the number of variables so thanks for pointing me in that direction. Just so much damn info and so many damn opinions that I'm glad that are guys like you and others doing the side to side comparisons and teaching common sense and fundamentals. 

I have kept my temps and humidity constant. On a mission to find that sweet spot for nutes in every phase of the grow. 

Just out of curiosity, what's your opinion on topping clones? Obviously, no true node pairs since they are clones, so uncle bens multi cola formations isn't possible. Heavy indicas, one pheno is already pretty squatty at about 30" max after stretch, developing huge thick buds, the other pheno is leggy and gets to about 42" after stretch with more space than I'd prefer between nodes. Buds on this pheno are more spaced out and as of week 5 not developed into those huge continuous stacked calyx bud. 

Obviously, I'm going to make my final assessment after harvest, but I was just curious as to how you feel about topping clones in early veg.


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## homebrewer (May 23, 2014)

Samcro4 said:


> Ok. I will drop it down a couple tenths, stick w 80/20, and see how they respond. Thanks. I was wondering after I wrote that if maybe I was dealing w some lockout issues because i let the water level get lower than usual. So I think that approach as well as possibly changing to 70/30 is a better plan than adding some GH micro for the N.
> 
> I'm still trying to figure it out as its my first run. Wanna keep it simple and limit the number of variables so thanks for pointing me in that direction. Just so much damn info and so many damn opinions that I'm glad that are guys like you and others doing the side to side comparisons and teaching common sense and fundamentals.
> 
> ...


I think it's a good idea to top, bend, supercrop, trim, tie down, etc. any plant whether from seed or clone.


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## Samcro4 (May 27, 2014)

HB,

Thanks for the advice. Fixed the girls right up. Immediately. Figured it would take a few days but they looked better overnight. 

I def think I have two different phenos. Short and thick then tall and scraggly. What sucks is I figured the taller girls were going to be better producers. However, once they went to 12/12 they stretched too much and put waaay to much space between internodes. 2.5 inches. Whereas, the shorter thicker and larger leafed girls have some really amazing colas. 

I have a good set up. Plenty hps wattage. But I wasn't keeping them cool enough during day temps so the drops from day to night were 15-20 degrees. I focused on getting so much else right I figured this could be one thing I let slide till next time around. Sealed room and didn't have the time or money to get proper AC installed to keep it cooler during day. But what's confusing me is how half of them are doing awesome and half are taller and scrawny w basically 3-5 inch colas. Most smaller. I'm wondering if I managed the day/night temp change better if the taller leggier girls would have out produced the shorter girls. 

In your guys experience, when there is sufficient light and nutrients provided, do you find the cause of excess intermodal spacing to be too much of a drop from day to night temps?

It's def a ton to take in as a newb and I need to tell myself to learn from mistakes and move on. I don't know. Maybe I set my expectations too high.


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## Bud Diamond (Jun 8, 2014)

yeah everyone has been growing(in Promix soil) for years and years using expert level nute boxes with all the answers, and with great results! but you give them one, maybe two bottles and tell them just watch your plants and they will guide you. Then all of the sudden they are ready to abandon what has worked so great for them, and proceed to ask the same questions over and over and over. if you dont want to learn to grow or read your plants, then dont as HB to do it for you! people need to quit trying to replicate someones grow and experiment and learn for themselves


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## MOON SHINER (Jun 18, 2014)

Bud Diamond said:


> yeah everyone has been growing(in Promix soil) for years and years using expert level nute boxes with all the answers, and with great results! but you give them one, maybe two bottles and tell them just watch your plants and they will guide you. Then all of the sudden they are ready to abandon what has worked so great for them, and proceed to ask the same questions over and over and over. if you dont want to learn to grow or read your plants, then dont as HB to do it for you! people need to quit trying to replicate someones grow and experiment and learn for themselves


I _kinda_ agree with you here, yes learning from ones own experiences does help more than any advice that is given. Without HB and his experience I would be about 5 years behind in knowledge on this great plant. Sometimes learning for oneself doesn't work very fast or at all and just a helpful point in the right direction is all it takes. HB has helped me many times to help guide me in the direction that was right for me. He is not the only one I have to thank but he does have good advise.

What I admire about Homebrewer is that will never tell you what to do, but does offer suggestions for one to try with years of expertise to back it up in a confident, humble way. 

Whooo! Moon shine!


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## homebrewer (Jun 18, 2014)

I'm a fan of general guidelines and then tweaking as to what works best for the grower and their strains. 

Here is an Afgooie cross from Classic Seeds fed foliage pro and protekt from clone to harvest:


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## Samcro4 (Jun 28, 2014)

Bud Diamond said:


> yeah everyone has been growing(in Promix soil) for years and years using expert level nute boxes with all the answers, and with great results! but you give them one, maybe two bottles and tell them just watch your plants and they will guide you. Then all of the sudden they are ready to abandon what has worked so great for them, and proceed to ask the same questions over and over and over. if you dont want to learn to grow or read your plants, then dont as HB to do it for you! people need to quit trying to replicate someones grow and experiment and learn for themselves



Why the hell wouldn't u follow the advice of those with experience if you have none of your own? Forget this sight, that's life.


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## homebrewer (Jun 30, 2014)

Samcro4 said:


> Why the hell wouldn't u follow the advice of those with experience if you have none of your own? Forget this sight, that's life.


I think he's just saying that one can learn a lot from trial-and-error but it's nice to have a jumping-off point for which to dial something in. There are a lot of ways to grow this plant with just a few universal truths, figure out what works best for you and run with it.


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## Bud Diamond (Jul 6, 2014)

There's a HUGE difference in following a gifted growers advice and being a moron.


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## Bud Diamond (Jul 6, 2014)

And you're just trying to learn FAST and skip the experience that comes with growing well than you're not really learning are you? You're just trying to duplicate something else and then you are lost at the first bump in the road.


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## Thecouchlock (Jul 6, 2014)

Excuse me HB, If you don't mind answering which one came out on top that would be amazing. If not just let me know I will go through the whole 60 pages I missed . I am really excited to know them results and might even drop the nutrients I am using for DG.


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## homebrewer (Jul 6, 2014)

Thecouchlock said:


> Excuse me HB, If you don't mind answering which one came out on top that would be amazing. If not just let me know I will go through the whole 60 pages I missed . I am really excited to know them results and might even drop the nutrients I am using for DG.


Here is a link to the results: https://www.rollitup.org/t/dyna-gro-vs-advanced-nutrients-connoisseur-ak47-grow.429438/page-25#post-6070527


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## famine (Jul 13, 2014)

Hi Homebrewer.

I have been reading through some of your journals and want to try Dyna-Gro. It is not readily available here in Ontario so I will have to ask them to international ship. Adding to the cost.
I am going to order it anyway after I have used the last of my DutchMaster nutes.
In the mean time I would like to come as close to the 1-3-2 ratio you have been recommending.

I have the following flower nutes:

N P K Cal Mag​Flow A 4 0 4 1.5 0.5
Flow B 1 8 5 0 0.6

A+B 5 8 9 1.5 1.1
or 1 1.6 1.8 .3 .2
Leaving me short of P and K

I also have some old "Bloom Booster" 0-50-30 and a "Veg Fortifier" 12-40-12 (not used for 2 years) which are both dry ferts
My 1st question is how much of this dry ferts could I add to get close to the desired 1-3-2 ?

edit:
I think I answered my own question.
100ml of Flower A & B would give me a 5-8-9
10ml of "Bloom Booster" would give me a 0-5-3
10ml of "Veg Fortifier" would give me a 1.2-4-1.2
Total N-P-K: 6.2-17-13 or 1-2.7-2.1 which seems pretty close.
Total Cal 0.2 Total Mag 0.19

Have I calculated correctly?
​My 2nd question is are the levels of Ca and Mag sufficient? I use tap water with a starting PPM of 280 (.7 scale) and ph out of the tap of 7.7
I also have been adding a liquid potassium silicate product to my reservoirs. The concentration is not listed (neither is the K) but it is thick and syrupy. I use 30 ml/175L in veg and 20ml/150L for the first 4 weeks of flower.

btw my setup is flood and drain using 1 gallon pots containing straight perlite. 2 week cycle. Tray 1 wks 1-4, Tray 2 wks 5-8, Tray 3 wks 9-10

any help you can give so I can use up these nutes effectively would be awesome.

Famine


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## homebrewer (Jul 13, 2014)

famine said:


> Hi Homebrewer.
> 
> I have been reading through some of your journals and want to try Dyna-Gro. It is not readily available here in Ontario so I will have to ask them to international ship. Adding to the cost.
> I am going to order it anyway after I have used the last of my DutchMaster nutes.
> ...


How much 0-50-30 should you use? Maybe a 3/4 gram per gallon?

I don't love your tap water but unless you're seeing a Ca or Mg deficiency, I think you're probably ok.


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## Samcro4 (Aug 23, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> I think he's just saying that one can learn a lot from trial-and-error but it's nice to have a jumping-off point for which to dial something in. There are a lot of ways to grow this plant with just a few universal truths, figure out what works best for you and run with it.


I agree w that. And just wanted to say thanks again. Finished at 0.81 gpw. I know alot people don't value that unit of measure. But I was happy with it and it gives a general idea of how I finished up. It was my first time around, had day temps avg 92 and night temp dropped to mid 70s. There were a few times they were drinking so fast that I'd be a day two late on feeding. I made alot of mistakes. I also learned a ton. I've had time since to address climate control and now run 79 day 68 night. Looking forward to see how they finish w better climate control and making sure they are always fed on time. 

I def could not have done as well as I did (relative to my experience) without the tips guys on RIU shared. So thank you. 

I think the one thing that surprised me most is how resilliant these girls are. I screwed up ALOT. And they finished well. My impression after doing all of the reading and research beforehand, was that you needed to get everything as close to ideal as possible or it would ruin your girls and be left w nothing. I wasn't a horrible parent, but I made alot of mistakes a newb would. And also had consistsnt day temps that people said would ruin my girls. So I'm looking forward to the results of a dialed in run. 

Thanks again for the advice. If you ask me, DG rocks.


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## AlphaPhase (Aug 23, 2014)

Hey homebrewer , great thread! Just realized I spent 2 hours browsing through the pages lol. 

I love dynagro. I've had some great results using it. I wanted something even easier, so I found the Lucas formula.. Which led me to be very disappointed, so it's back to dynagro! I just noticed they have the foliage pro a couple months ago. I've never used foliage pro but would like to give it a chance. I noticed you use 20% grow nutes (give or take) during flowering, would this 20-25% of grow nutes be the same if using foliage pro? I'm just trying to get an idea if it's similar. 

I will be running a ebb n grow bucket system in hydroton. Would you recommend dg fp or should I stick with dg grow? 

Any tips would be appreciated, thanks!


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## homebrewer (Aug 23, 2014)

AlphaPhase said:


> Hey homebrewer , great thread! Just realized I spent 2 hours browsing through the pages lol.
> 
> I love dynagro. I've had some great results using it. I wanted something even easier, so I found the Lucas formula.. Which led me to be very disappointed, so it's back to dynagro! I just noticed they have the foliage pro a couple months ago. I've never used foliage pro but would like to give it a chance. I noticed you use 20% grow nutes (give or take) during flowering, would this 20-25% of grow nutes be the same if using foliage pro? I'm just trying to get an idea if it's similar.
> 
> ...



I mixed Grow with Bloom during flower in hydro because of the N content of Grow. Foliage pro is a more potent option for N so you may be able to get away with less FP than Grow in terms of a percentage. Since switching to just Foliage Pro in promix, I experimented with it in hydro and like it a lot. It essentially serves the same purpose as Grow in terms of supplying more N, it's just nice to now be able to drop Grow from _my_ nutrient shelf.


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## AlphaPhase (Aug 23, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> I mixed Grow with Bloom during flower in hydro because of the N content of Grow. Foliage pro is a more potent option for N so you may be able to get away with less FP than Grow in terms of a percentage. Since switching to just Foliage Pro in promix, I experimented with it in hydro and like it a lot. It essentially serves the same purpose as Grow in terms of supplying more N, it's just nice to now be able to drop Grow from _my_ nutrient shelf.


OK, excellent. The foliage pro definitely looks like a better formula than the grow formula from what I can see. 

I'll give it a shot! 

I have some tangilope clones that I'll be flowering soon and I don't know anything about the strain really so ill have to tinker around with the nute dosages, but I'm glad I found this thread. It'll at least get me started in the right direction (it's been 2 years since my last dynagro harvest and I forgot how I was using it). Always take notes ladies and gentlemen!


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## AlphaPhase (Aug 24, 2014)

One more quick question, I've never used ro water before, but since I moved my tap water is 240ppm and doesn't seem to be very good. I have Gh calmag. Would it be OK to use the gh calmag with the dynagro Fp, protekt and bloom, or should I get dyna magpro?


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## homebrewer (Aug 24, 2014)

I've used calmag in a test and it didn't do anything so I'd say that neither calmag nor magpro are needed.


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## Pass it Around (Aug 25, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> You're all familiar with _Big Buds magazine_, right? Well then I'm sure you're also aware that this rag is owned by Advanced Nutrients.
> 
> This link was posted at another forum and I just had to post it here in case anyone is looking for a good laugh:
> 
> ...


LMFAO, that article is complete snake oil salesman bullshit LOL.


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## Pass it Around (Aug 25, 2014)

I scanned 30 pages and couldn't find your results from this one, can't go any further lololol  I am just curious of the results.


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## homebrewer (Aug 25, 2014)

Pass it Around said:


> I scanned 30 pages and couldn't find your results from this one, can't go any further lololol  I am just curious of the results.


The results are on page 25.


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## Theophilus (Sep 4, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> I've used calmag in a test and it didn't do anything so I'd say that neither calmag nor magpro are needed.


Would you say that it's the same in coco? I hear so much about how you need to use CalMag with Coco when using RO to put back what you take out. I am not sure whether coco is considered hydro or soil(less). I have heard it said that if you treat coco like soil you will get soil like results and if you treat it like hydro you will get hydro like results. I am also curious with all due to respect, why with all the seemingly popularity of coco, you choose to grow in Promix. I know you run a flood table as well. Anyway, just a few things I have always pondered. Thanks in advance.


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## homebrewer (Sep 4, 2014)

Theophilus said:


> Would you say that it's the same in coco? I hear so much about how you need to use CalMag with Coco when using RO to put back what you take out. I am not sure whether coco is considered hydro or soil(less). I have heard it said that if you treat coco like soil you will get soil like results and if you treat it like hydro you will get hydro like results. I am also curious with all due to respect, why with all the seemingly popularity of coco, you choose to grow in Promix. I know you run a flood table as well. Anyway, just a few things I have always pondered. Thanks in advance.



I grew in coco for a while and didn't love it. I didn't see the need to run it any differently than promix.


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## Theophilus (Sep 5, 2014)

I am personally in trays doing a recirculating system, top feeding in to coco. Not sure if this is flushing the salts back in to the rez or not. My rez gets low after only a week so I just refill it again. I was thinking about trying a flood and drain system instead of the drip. Not sure if that would be any different than what I am already doing. Again, not sure if what I am doing is considered hydro or or soil(less). Hopefully you can share any thoughts on what I am doing right now. I may just scrap it and go in to Promix. I feel like I am going around and around. Wish I could just get something dialed in and run with it with some level of success.


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## homebrewer (Sep 5, 2014)

Theophilus said:


> I am personally in trays doing a recirculating system, top feeding in to coco. Not sure if this is flushing the salts back in to the rez or not. My rez gets low after only a week so I just refill it again. I was thinking about trying a flood and drain system instead of the drip. Not sure if that would be any different than what I am already doing. Again, not sure if what I am doing is considered hydro or or soil(less). Hopefully you can share any thoughts on what I am doing right now. I may just scrap it and go in to Promix. I feel like I am going around and around. Wish I could just get something dialed in and run with it with some level of success.


If I were recirculating, I'd use a hydro medium personally. If I had a res with coco, I'd much prefer to run drain-to-waste. Your watering technique is almost as important as what you're watering with if that makes sense. Coco is fine but I'd recommend hand watering and those cloth pots.


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## Theophilus (Sep 5, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> If I were recirculating, I'd use a hydro medium personally. If I had a res with coco, I'd much prefer to run drain-to-waste. Your watering technique is almost as important as what you're watering with if that makes sense. Coco is fine but I'd recommend hand watering and those cloth pots.


Thanks a bunch. I feel my stress levels slowly decreasing with your advice, lol... Seriously.


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## Samcro4 (Sep 6, 2014)

HB,

Do you always find consistency in your grows? Let's narrow that down to do you always find the same exact amount of nutes at the same point in the process works every time. Or do you find yourself adapting your nutes a little each time in the process to what your girls are telling you? 

I guess what I'm trying to ask is are we newbs trying to find that exact sweetspot that will be same macros every time? Do you ever have a grow where everything is perfect? You use ur formula, and besides any trimming techniques, you don't have to adjust your nutes at all because you found the g spot? Does that make one a great grower? Or is a great grower constantly adapting to what he's looking at week to week, trying to stay along that 80-20 baseline( for example), but maybe having to get a little more N in here, or cut back on a P there to keep his girls healthy and green?

Are there guys out there who have their shit so dialed in they don't change a thing ever throughout their process? Or are even the best guys adapting a little on the fly to keep those girls green and healthy till harvest?

I'm struggling to keep them green all the way through. Around week 5 flower they need more N. I think I'm going to have to drop the 80-20 to 70-30 next time around and see what happens week 5. 60-40 if I have to. But then again, I've just been adding a little GH Micro which is 5-0-1 to the 80-20 and they bounce back to green but don't stay green. 

I'm trying to find that sweet spot. Trying to dial it in. But wondering in your mind what makes a great grower? Is it having everything perfect? Being able to adapt all the time even after doing it for 20 years? Both? Just doing what it takes to keep them green and healthy - fuck the products and info constantly shoved in your face?


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## homebrewer (Sep 6, 2014)

Samcro4 said:


> HB,
> 
> Do you always find consistency in your grows? Let's narrow that down to do you always find the same exact amount of nutes at the same point in the process works every time. Or do you find yourself adapting your nutes a little each time in the process to what your girls are telling you?


If I strive for anything, it's consistency. These days, there are no surprises in my room. That's not just a function of the plant food, it's a result of doing everything correctly. 



> I guess what I'm trying to ask is are we newbs trying to find that exact sweetspot that will be same macros every time? Do you ever have a grow where everything is perfect? You use ur formula, and besides any trimming techniques, you don't have to adjust your nutes at all because you found the g spot? Does that make one a great grower? *Or is a great grower constantly adapting to what he's looking at week to week*, trying to stay along that 80-20 baseline( for example), but maybe having to get a little more N in here, or cut back on a P there to keep his girls healthy and green?


We're dealing with a living thing here and there is always a need to adapt or tweak something in order to make sure everything turns out as expected. 



> Are there guys out there who have their shit so dialed in they don't change a thing ever throughout their process? Or are even the best guys adapting a little on the fly to keep those girls green and healthy till harvest?
> 
> I'm struggling to keep them green all the way through. Around week 5 flower they need more N. I think I'm going to have to drop the 80-20 to 70-30 next time around and see what happens week 5. 60-40 if I have to. But then again, I've just been adding a little GH Micro which is 5-0-1 to the 80-20 and they bounce back to green but don't stay green.
> 
> I'm trying to find that sweet spot. Trying to dial it in. *But wondering in your mind what makes a great grower?* Is it having everything perfect? Being able to adapt all the time even after doing it for 20 years? Both? Just doing what it takes to keep them green and healthy - fuck the products and info constantly shoved in your face?


I think a great grower is consistent in their results and the only way to be consistent is to kind of have the answer for any issue that may arise. It does take some adapting from time to time but one should also be working from a baseline of near perfection. It helps to have a rock solid environment, it helps to use a complete plant food, and it helps to have vigorous genetics. If all these parts are ideal, you shouldn't need to tweak very much.


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## Theophilus (Sep 9, 2014)

Have you ever given any thought to doing a side by side comparison against CYCO? I hear a lot of good things about that line up as well.


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## homebrewer (Sep 9, 2014)

Theophilus said:


> Have you ever given any thought to doing a side by side comparison against CYCO? I hear a lot of good things about that line up as well.


It doesn't look very complete but the NPK content should do well in hydro.

In regards to a side-by-side, I would want a food that could work well in hydro AND promix and I'm not a fan of using multi-part foods in promix.


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## Esdreel (Dec 24, 2014)

I purchased the Dyna-Gro BLOOM (3-12-6), and grow (7-9-5), I have flowering plants, now probably for the first five weeks, I now how to use them? I use a soil, how I need to kind of mix proportion of the nutrient solution to watering my plants?

My English is not good, than from GOOGLE translation.
Please tell me how much a liter of water need to join the ML and GROW BLOOM
Thanks！Merry Christmas!


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## homebrewer (Dec 24, 2014)

Esdreel said:


> I purchased the Dyna-Gro BLOOM (3-12-6), and grow (7-9-5), I have flowering plants, now probably for the first five weeks, I now how to use them? I use a soil, how I need to kind of mix proportion of the nutrient solution to watering my plants?
> 
> My English is not good, than from GOOGLE translation.
> Please tell me how much a liter of water need to join the ML and GROW BLOOM
> Thanks！Merry Christmas!


If you're in soil then I might stay away from their bloom, but it all depends on what minerals your soil already contains. So as I've said before, start off with the 'maintenance' directions on their bottles (1/2 tsp/gal I think) and then experiment with different combos of grow/bloom. I'm in promix and found that using only grow worked better than combos of grow and bloom. If you want to experiment, start off with a 50/50 mix. If your plants show some yellowing then substitute with more grow than bloom.


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## Esdreel (Dec 24, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> If you're in soil then I might stay away from their bloom, but it all depends on what minerals your soil already contains. So as I've said before, start off with the 'maintenance' directions on their bottles (1/2 tsp/gal I think) and then experiment with different combos of grow/bloom. I'm in promix and found that using only grow worked better than combos of grow and bloom. If you want to experiment, start off with a 50/50 mix. If your plants show some yellowing then substitute with more grow than bloom.


Thank you very much, I'm going to try.


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## [email protected] (Dec 24, 2014)




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## Youngtree777 (Dec 25, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> I run my AK47 at 800-850 ppm or about 1.2 EC. Thats what they liked with DynaGro so thats how much Connoisseur theyre getting.
> 
> In regards to keeping them in peak bloom longer, I dont ever see peak bloom myself. Its a slow and gradual process for me but maybe youll see something in the pictures to come that confirms what youve heard.
> 
> ...



Merry Christmas and thank you for the side by side! Fantastic questions by every one coupled with just the right answers makes for great help.
My question is, when you use the minimum of 1ml/gallon of grow how much of the bloom and protekt are you using to " make up the rest".
Hope to be callin everyone here by initials soon enough but for now, thank you Homebrewer!


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## homebrewer (Dec 26, 2014)

Youngtree777 said:


> Merry Christmas and thank you for the side by side! Fantastic questions by every one coupled with just the right answers makes for great help.
> My question is, when you use the minimum of 1ml/gallon of grow how much of the bloom and protekt are you using to " make up the rest".
> Hope to be callin everyone here by initials soon enough but for now, thank you Homebrewer!


I don't remember exactly but if you have a TDS meter then it's some easy math.


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## Youngtree777 (Dec 28, 2014)

Thank you for answering my "use your common sense" question heehee  

Do you use an aerocloner of sorts? If so do you recommend using any bloom in it other than rooting hormomes? Ive read they are helpful in miniscue amounts.


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## homebrewer (Dec 28, 2014)

Youngtree777 said:


> Thank you for answering my "use your common sense" question heehee
> 
> Do you use an aerocloner of sorts? If so do you recommend using any bloom in it other than rooting hormomes? Ive read they are helpful in miniscue amounts.


I don't have an aero-cloner but if I did, I probably run a little of DG's Grow in there instead of their bloom.


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## Youngtree777 (Dec 28, 2014)

Suggestion on ppm for said application good sir?


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## homebrewer (Dec 28, 2014)

Youngtree777 said:


> Suggestion on ppm for said application good sir?


Sorry, I don't know, I don't have an aerocloner.


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## grooower (Dec 29, 2014)

thanks for this thread, been really reading the info, have started to use up all my other nutes, from Counissiour AN, and H&G, adding Protek has really helped my plants fight mites. I run a flood drain system, just wondering when I should add KLN, I was thinking of stopping Voodoo and it's half brothers. thanks.


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## homebrewer (Dec 29, 2014)

grooower said:


> thanks for this thread, been really reading the info, have started to use up all my other nutes, from Counissiour AN, and H&G, adding Protek has really helped my plants fight mites. I run a flood drain system, just wondering when I should add KLN, I was thinking of stopping Voodoo and it's half brothers. thanks.


I never used KLN during the grow cycle, only in the clone dome. I'd soak my rapid-rooters in a KLN and grow solution before placing a cut in the cubes.


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## grooower (Dec 29, 2014)

homebrewer said:


> I never used KLN during the grow cycle, only in the clone dome. I'd soak my rapid-rooters in a KLN and grow solution before placing a cut in the cubes.


I have just recently gone to rapid-rooters and seen good results, I place them in 4" rockwool, will try the soak in a day or two upon next cuttings. I was thinking that KLN could replace H&G Roots Excelurator or Voodoo family, does that make sense at all, want to be careful before adding it to a 40 gal res


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## homebrewer (Dec 29, 2014)

grooower said:


> I have just recently gone to rapid-rooters and seen good results, I place them in 4" rockwool, will try the soak in a day or two upon next cuttings. *I was thinking that KLN could replace H&G Roots Excelurator or Voodoo family*, does that make sense at all, want to be careful before adding it to a 40 gal res


In all honesty, you could drop all those bottles during the growth cycle and nothing would change.


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## Youngtree777 (Dec 29, 2014)

How much H202 per gallon in hydro app?

And while we are speaking of KLN i wanted to say i got root nubs in three days! Fastest I ever!
I also read that KLN is twice as fast as excelerator...


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## longdongjohnson (Jan 1, 2015)

Hey HB. Ran into some deficiencies in the mother room so I recently picked up my bottle of foliage pro. I am looking to feed my mothers every watering in my promix hp. Them girls are big I water every 2-3 days with minimal run-off. Would you suggest shooting for a solution with around 50 ppm nitrogen on a feed feed feed shedule? Mothers under hid light with stable temp and humidity.

Thanks in advance.


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## homebrewer (Jan 1, 2015)

longdongjohnson said:


> Hey HB. Ran into some deficiencies in the mother room so I recently picked up my bottle of foliage pro. I am looking to feed my mothers every watering in my promix hp. Them girls are big I water every 2-3 days with minimal run-off. Would you suggest shooting for a solution with around 50 ppm nitrogen on a feed feed feed shedule? Mothers under hid light with stable temp and humidity.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


A couple mls/gal should be plenty to keep them healthy and deficiency free.


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## Youngtree777 (Jan 6, 2015)

I just wanted to share that I added 7 ml's into an 11 gallon reservoir of magpro ( had a sample bottle of it and it has a much lower N rating than either Bloom or Grow) and it was about two to three days later when most of them really took off with the roots! A few of the smaller cutting got a lil bit yellow and appear to have a "calcium looking residue" on the leaf?? they are still putting out roots but as far as i know there isn't much calcium if any at all in my mixture with the RO water.

Just thought I would share some more Dyna-Gro info  my mixture for the reservoir has 2oz of colloidal silver, about 4 oz of hydrogen peroxide, about half strength if not a hint more of KLN and the 7ml of the mag pro in the 11 gal res.


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## homebrewer (Jan 6, 2015)

Youngtree777 said:


> I just wanted to share that I added 7 ml's into an 11 gallon reservoir of magpro ( had a sample bottle of it and it has a much lower N rating than either Bloom or Grow) and it was about two to three days later when most of them really took off with the roots! A few of the smaller cutting got a lil bit yellow and appear to have a "calcium looking residue" on the leaf?? they are still putting out roots but as far as i know there isn't much calcium if any at all in my mixture with the RO water.
> 
> Just thought I would share some more Dyna-Gro info  *my mixture for the reservoir has 2oz of colloidal silver, about 4 oz of hydrogen peroxide, about half strength if not a hint more of KLN and the 7ml of the mag pro in the 11 gal res.*


What is this reservoir feeding? Rooted plants? Is this a veg reservoir?


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## Youngtree777 (Jan 6, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> What is this reservoir feeding? Rooted plants? Is this a veg reservoir?


This is my home made aero cloner. I read that clones need P to help them root better. I have also read that anything in the normal nute range will burn or hinder them hence the ratio.

You got some advice for me there meesta HB? I be all ears mon


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## homebrewer (Jan 6, 2015)

Youngtree777 said:


> This is my home made aero cloner. I read that clones need P to help them root better. I have also read that anything in the normal nute range will burn or hinder them hence the ratio.
> 
> You got some advice for me there meesta HB? I be all ears mon


If your cuts stay healthy for long enough, they'll kick out roots eventually. So to keep cuts healthy, I like DG's Grow, but any food that is clean and balanced should work fine too. I give them about 60ppm of grow and use something similar to KLN. That mix keep the cuts green and healthy until I get roots. So I'd say ditch the magpro and colloidal silver.


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## Youngtree777 (Jan 8, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> If your cuts stay healthy for long enough, they'll kick out roots eventually. So to keep cuts healthy, I like DG's Grow, but any food that is clean and balanced should work fine too. I give them about 60ppm of grow and use something similar to KLN. That mix keep the cuts green and healthy until I get roots. So I'd say ditch the magpro and colloidal silver.


Thanks! Keep the peroxide?


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## longdongjohnson (Jan 8, 2015)

The only reason to run peroxide in your cloner is to kill the bacteria that may form in the water. It helps if you are having bacterial problems. Bleach works fine too.


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## Youngtree777 (Jan 9, 2015)

longdongjohnson said:


> The only reason to run peroxide in your cloner is to kill the bacteria that may form in the water. It helps if you are having bacterial problems. Bleach works fine too.


Bleach!?! sounds a lil harsh but I guess if humans can survive it then it may not be the worst... pointers are ALWAYS welcome  On the harsh note I have read that peroxide is QUITE harsh and on humans should only be used on oral applications because it will cause tissue damage! I.E. scars!

I was using the colloidal silver to kill disease as well as the peroxide BUUUUT I did read that seed companies and breeders alike use the stuff to turn early flowering females into males to get female pollen for the fem seeds.

Thank you all so much for your quick responses and tips! I learn something new every grow but it helps to have peeps with years under their belts lending the wisdom and knowledge!

Has anyone here heard of Dyna-Gro Orchid?? Just got a email from amazon.com saying that they had this stuff for sale. I was only aware of the foliage pro and the 777 but they also have this stuff

If im not allowed to post vendor links please forgive me and modify this post you mods out thur..
its 7-8-6
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001ARQ0HO/ref=pe_792410_130738600_em_1p_0_ti


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## homebrewer (Jan 10, 2015)

Youngtree777 said:


> Has anyone here heard of Dyna-Gro Orchid?? Just got a email from amazon.com saying that they had this stuff for sale. I was only aware of the foliage pro and the 777 but they also have this stuff
> 
> If im not allowed to post vendor links please forgive me and modify this post you mods out thur..
> its 7-8-6
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001ARQ0HO/ref=pe_792410_130738600_em_1p_0_ti


I use their foliage pro on my orchids:


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## longdongjohnson (Jan 18, 2015)

@homebrewer 






Dave Neal (Owner of Dyna gro) talks nutrients on cannabis specifically. Pretty enjoyable.


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## homebrewer (Jan 18, 2015)

longdongjohnson said:


> @homebrewer
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Someone sent me a PM a while back with a link to that show. Pretty cool!


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## Jason9922 (Jan 22, 2015)

I recently scored gallons each of DG Protekt, DG Cal mag, DG bloom. DG grow / yello label pro I think, the liquid molasses, even a small little jar of their green rooting gel! I have gallons of everything except the KLN, which I have 4 separate liters of. I was wondering if you could help me out and explain your schedule for hydro DWC I was comparing the schedules from DG and they differ from what I've read on here. I'm going to be setting up a new grow with 5 gallon buckets in a RWDC set up. I was just wondering if you could share with me how you get your clones ready and with what solutions? I tried switching from AN 3 part grow micro bloom ph perfect solution over to DG nutes and the plants didn't like it. So I finished off with the an and want to strictly use the DG since I have tons of it. I also might be interested in letting some gallons go for a cheap price. thanks


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## homebrewer (Jan 22, 2015)

Jason9922 said:


> I recently scored gallons each of DG Protekt, DG Cal mag, DG bloom. DG grow / yello label pro I think, the liquid molasses, even a small little jar of their green rooting gel! I have gallons of everything except the KLN, which I have 4 separate liters of. I was wondering if you could help me out and explain your schedule for hydro DWC I was comparing the schedules from DG and they differ from what I've read on here. I'm going to be setting up a new grow with 5 gallon buckets in a RWDC set up. I was just wondering if you could share with me how you get your clones ready and with what solutions? I tried switching from AN 3 part grow micro bloom ph perfect solution over to DG nutes and the plants didn't like it. So I finished off with the an and want to strictly use the DG since I have tons of it. I also might be interested in letting some gallons go for a cheap price. thanks


RDWC is different than what I do so I'm not sure I can be of much help there. I will say that foliage pro for veg is a no brainer. Combos of FP (or grow) and bloom during flowering is your best bet. You just need enough FP (or grow) to keep the plants green. The rest of your EC can be bloom with a dose of protekt to balance the pH. Unless your water sucks or you're overfeeding, those bottles will kill it. 

As far as clones go, I like Dip-N-Grow for rooting. Once rooted, they either go into promix or rockwool cubes.


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## supdro (Jan 22, 2015)

how do you score gallons of DG and not know how to use it? Anyways hb is right don't go too high of nutes maybe 8-900ppm max depending on strain as DG is potent. when I used DG In DWC 600ppm ish. I used grow, bloom, protekt, and mag, and sweet in ro. I ran 50/50 grow/bloom at the start of flower then slowly lower the grow towards the end. Read through his other threads and there's some valuable information.cheers


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## Youngtree777 (Feb 20, 2015)

I finally got a chance to listen to that podcast  thank you for posting that. I didn't really like the radio host... kinda ill mannered jerk who kept interrupting the smart guy with actual science based research and info with his " hu hu im such a stoner surfer jerk voice know it all who likes fish emulsion hu hu cha" ... anyway 

I noticed he was saying that Calcium is needed in higher doses than what was it.... N and P combined?? couldve been N and K anyway..

I believe what this fella has to say (Dave Neil) but the formula doesn't really make sense in that case. Unless I'm not doing that math correctly???

He was saying something about the plants (cannabis specifically ) needing 10%+ calcium but the formula only has 2%.

He also said that based on scientific tests done on tissue samples including Cannabis that there are 7 macro not 3 which are
N,P,K,Cal,Mag,and drum roll  Silica! 

I dunno if you guys have taken the time to listen to this podcast but its very informative.

He was JUUUUST about to give some info on other products that could enhance flavor and aesthetic and aromatic appeal when jerk face DJ pants interrupted him (for like the 10 fecking time!) with his fish emulsion bs yadayada. I do remember reading HB saying that there are some products of this nature... 

That said, Dave stated that 90% or some very high %age was attributed to Sulfur when it comes to smell and taste production.


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## homebrewer (Feb 20, 2015)

Youngtree777 said:


> I finally got a chance to listen to that podcast  thank you for posting that. I didn't really like the radio host... kinda ill mannered jerk who kept interrupting the smart guy with actual science based research and info with his " hu hu im such a stoner surfer jerk voice know it all who likes fish emulsion hu hu cha" ... anyway
> 
> I noticed he was saying that Calcium is needed in higher doses than what was it.... N and P combined?? couldve been N and K anyway..
> 
> ...



I've done the experiments before, calcium is not needed in the amounts that Dave talks about.


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## Youngtree777 (Feb 20, 2015)

Well that makes my life a lot easier ( and cheaper to ahem) and so I thankee sir!


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## homebrewer (Feb 20, 2015)

Youngtree777 said:


> Well that makes my life a lot easier ( and cheaper to ahem) and so I thankee sir!


Think about it: unless you're seeing a deficiency, you likely don't need 'more' of a particular element, _especially_ a secondary-macro element. I'm not saying fine tweaks can't be made to healthy plants to increase output slightly but in my experience, tweaking calcium and magnesium does nothing when an adequate amount is already being supplied.


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## j.ride (Feb 27, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> Think about it: unless you're seeing a deficiency, you likely don't need 'more' of a particular element, _especially_ a secondary-macro element. I'm not saying fine tweaks can't be made to healthy plants to increase output slightly but in my experience, tweaking calcium and magnesium does nothing when an adequate amount is already being supplied.


Homebrewer, I'm curious, what kind of yield increase do you think is possible from really tweaking what we give our plants and having the stars align so to say, as compared to using RO water with Grow or FP and some Pro-tekt and not messing with anything else? I for one always kind of feel the need to be doing more but it sounds like from what you're saying, that the Dyna-Gro base nutrients are already close to perfection and there's not much (if anything) one can do to get markedly better results.


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## homebrewer (Feb 27, 2015)

j.ride said:


> Homebrewer, I'm curious, what kind of yield increase do you think is possible from really tweaking what we give our plants and having the stars align so to say, as compared to using RO water with Grow or FP and some Pro-tekt and not messing with anything else? I for one always kind of feel the need to be doing more but it sounds like from what you're saying, that the Dyna-Gro base nutrients are already close to perfection and there's not much (if anything) one can do to get markedly better results.


Foliage pro just kills it in promix. But that 3-1-2 NPK ratio formula with any other brand name on the bottle would do just as well. I think Botanicare makes a 3-1-2 formula too. The tweaks I'm referring to are more for hydro than anything else. For me those tweaks are the FP/Bloom mix during flower. 

To answer your question, I saw about a 10% increase in yield with Foliage Pro as compared to Grow in Promix. Right now I'm testing some potassium sulfate with the foliage pro and I'm not seeing anything out of the ordinary. That tells me that all those high potassium 'cannabis specific' formulas are just kind of a gimmick.

If you're looking for yield increases, pruning, topping and training are all things that can really boost yields when mastered. I'm not even close to doing so but it's always something I'm working on.


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## Youngtree777 (Feb 28, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> Foliage pro just kills it in promix. But that 3-1-2 NPK ratio formula with any other brand name on the bottle would do just as well. I think Botanicare makes a 3-1-2 formula too. The tweaks I'm referring to are more for hydro than anything else. For me those tweaks are the FP/Bloom mix during flower.
> 
> To answer your question, I saw about a 10% increase in yield with Foliage Pro as compared to Grow in Promix. Right now I'm testing some potassium sulfate with the foliage pro and I'm not seeing anything out of the ordinary. That tells me that all those high potassium 'cannabis specific' formulas are just kind of a gimmick.
> 
> If you're looking for yield increases, pruning, topping and training are all things that can really boost yields when mastered. I'm not even close to doing so but it's always something I'm working on.


when you say "promix" what does this mean?
So are you saying you are preferring FP over Grow??


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## homebrewer (Feb 28, 2015)

Youngtree777 said:


> when you say "promix" what does this mean?
> So are you saying you are preferring FP over Grow??


Google 'promix'. It's a peat-based medium. 

Yes, I like FP over Grow from start to finish. For seedlings, I prefer Grow since FP can be a little hot. Once those seedlings have some true leaves I'll switch to FP.


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## j.ride (Feb 28, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> To answer your question, I saw about a 10% increase in yield with Foliage Pro as compared to Grow in Promix. Right now I'm testing some potassium sulfate with the foliage pro and I'm not seeing anything out of the ordinary. That tells me that all those high potassium 'cannabis specific' formulas are just kind of a gimmick.


That's interesting and definitely gives us some insight into the relative importance of Phosphorus. I'm wondering if maybe the Potassium is the say way, perhaps there's an ideal range but it doesn't matter all that much if you're in the range. A 10% increase is nothing to sneeze at, but for cutting the Phosphorus by two thirds, I almost would have expected a bigger change good or bad. It seems that even with a lot of Phosphorus in the Grow formula, it still wasn't creating a toxic environment, or your improvement in yield would have been better. I wonder if it was actually the slight increase in N where you got your 10%, or maybe less Phosphorus just gave the rootzone more space to uptake other things and everything became slightly more efficient. 

On that note, is tissue analysis a surefire way to look at things like in the DG interview? I ask because aren't a lot of the nutrients used to make other things in the plant like amino acids and sugars? I need to look this up but say the plant uses a lot of N to make it's proteins... then wouldn't the N no longer be present in as large a quantities in the leaf as it's used to make other things?


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## Youngtree777 (Feb 28, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> Google 'promix'. It's a peat-based medium.
> 
> Yes, I like FP over Grow from start to finish. For seedlings, I prefer Grow since FP can be a little hot. Once those seedlings have some true leaves I'll switch to FP.


ok i see what promix is..
now on your FP.. do you use ONLY FP or do you use bloom at all anymore?
Do you still stick with the same 500 max PPM in soil-less media??
and finally which promix do you use, i see they have several types... how much does a 3.8 compressed bale expand out to?


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## homebrewer (Feb 28, 2015)

j.ride said:


> That's interesting and definitely gives us some insight into the relative importance of Phosphorus. I'm wondering if maybe the Potassium is the say way, perhaps there's an ideal range but it doesn't matter all that much if you're in the range. A 10% increase is nothing to sneeze at, but for cutting the Phosphorus by two thirds, I almost would have expected a bigger change good or bad. It seems that even with a lot of Phosphorus in the Grow formula, it still wasn't creating a toxic environment, or your improvement in yield would have been better. I wonder if it was actually the slight increase in N where you got your 10%, or maybe less Phosphorus just gave the rootzone more space to uptake other things and everything became slightly more efficient.


Phosphorus is not needed in the amounts that are supplied by bloom foods. To that, 'vegging formulas' have more than enough too and are more than capable of taking plants from seed to harvest in promix/coco/dirt. They're not just capable though, they will out-perform bloom foods all day long simply because bloom foods will not maintain green, healthy leaves for very long. Hydro is different though. 

You are exactly right about 'ranges' and it's my thought that as long as you are in an adequate range then you're good to go. So I like a 3-1-2 NPK ratio for promix. A 3-1-3, 1-1-1, 2-1-2, 2-1-3, etc will probably do fine too. What's important is the balance. What's important is that there is enough N to keep the leaves intact. 

In regards to my test, I think the results would have been more pronounced had I gone from clone to harvest comparing the two formulas. In my test, I treated them the same through veg but then once flower hit, I separated and fed them differently. The difference, in my opinion, was the node spacing and structure. FP for the win. 



> On that note, is tissue analysis a surefire way to look at things like in the DG interview? I ask because aren't a lot of the nutrients used to make other things in the plant like amino acids and sugars? I need to look this up but say the plant uses a lot of N to make it's proteins... then wouldn't the N no longer be present in as large a quantities in the leaf as it's used to make other things?


I think a tissue analysis tells you something about what the plant is using and in what quantities. The results beg the question: Are all elements taken up evenly across the board? If they are, you'd want a formula that mimics the results of said tissue analysis.


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## homebrewer (Feb 28, 2015)

Youngtree777 said:


> ok i see what promix is..
> now on your FP.. do you use ONLY FP or do you use bloom at all anymore?
> Do you still stick with the same 500 max PPM in soil-less media??
> and finally which promix do you use, i see they have several types... how much does a 3.8 compressed bale expand out to?


I do not use bloom at all in promix. My feeding levels vary but generally never exceed 0.5 EC.

I like the promix BX which when uncompressed is a good amount of media.


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## Youngtree777 (Feb 28, 2015)

Thanks for the reply

Why dont you use Bloom in your soil-less media? Also what DO you use Bloom in??

And is the only difference between HP and BX the myco and bacteria content?

I'm growing in Coco right now and have the Pro-Tekt, Grow, and Bloom... any suggestions? 

was kinda following what you were saying in earlier posts to do no more than 200ppm for veg and for flower doing under 500ppm with 

what I believe was a ratio of 1:3 grow/bloom is that correct?


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## tightpockt (Feb 28, 2015)

I was hoping to use the foliage pro all the way through but it separated during shipping so I've been using a mix of FP and maxibloom for my last 3 runs and it's working like a charm


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## homebrewer (Mar 1, 2015)

Youngtree777 said:


> Thanks for the reply
> 
> Why dont you use Bloom in your soil-less media? Also what DO you use Bloom in??
> 
> ...


Bloom has too much P and not enough N for plants growing in promix/dirt/coco. I do use bloom in hydro though. 

I don't know about the different promix recipes, I use what is sold locally. 

At one time I was using a ratio of Bloom-to-Grow in promix but future tests said no bloom is your best route.


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## Youngtree777 (Mar 1, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> Bloom has too much P and not enough N for plants growing in promix/dirt/coco. I do use bloom in hydro though.
> 
> I don't know about the different promix recipes, I use what is sold locally.
> 
> At one time I was using a ratio of Bloom-to-Grow in promix but future tests said no bloom is your best route.



The plants I thank you kindly for all your coaching good sir!

Blessings to you and your endeavors!


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## weedemart (Mar 1, 2015)

hey homebrewer, do you use RO or tap water with DG?

I read in one of your post DG contains enough calcium to be used with RO. I believe its true in a promix culture, it makes sense because the promix already contains calcium and retain calcium.... but would you say the same for water culture in clay pebble etc... ? What about mg?


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## homebrewer (Mar 1, 2015)

weedemart said:


> hey homebrewer, do you use RO or tap water with DG?
> 
> I read in one of your post DG contains enough calcium to be used with RO. I believe its true in a promix culture, it makes sense because the promix already contains calcium and retain calcium.... but would you say the same for water culture in clay pebble etc... ? What about mg?


DG with RO water, in my opinion, is THE way to grow with DG. My tap water isn't balanced and I get some funky leaf coloring if I try to use any brand of food with my tap water. I like DG because it has everything you need, calcium and Mg included, so it's pretty much plug-and-play in any medium.


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## LuckyLefty112 (Mar 3, 2015)

Hey HB, (this is my first post here btw, EVER...) i saw this thread not too long ago, and was intrigued, could the industry have everyone so fooled? So i decided to do a lil investigating, smoked, went to their website. Smoked, called their support number, then my mind was completely blown. I spoke to a guy named Raphael, very knowledgeable soul, and long story short, i wss convinced to try these nutes. Now, he suggested i use the Foliage Pro as opposed to Grow, i DO LIKE THE N COUNT! With the ProTekt, Mag Pro and Bloom, with some KLN for a couple weeks in the early veg and for cloning. I told him about your post and how it swung me, and then he talked to me about growing, politics, theory, and nonsense for like the next hour and a half. Soooo, i have those nutes on the way, cant wait, i mean obviously i cant speak to their performance yet, besides KLN which ive used on cuttings for a long time, but i can say they have an extremely knowledgeable staff, friendly, and i just wanted to stop in and say thank you, ive ALWAYS wanted a simple nute system without 16 seperate bottles, etc. and i probably wouldnt have ever tried it because of the ol 'if it seems too good to be true..'. So thank you for sharing and listening to nonsense from haters while staying headstrong and teaching the stupid (thats me, im the stupid), you got through to this guy. And HELLO RIU!!


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## LuckyLefty112 (Mar 3, 2015)

Sorry for the novel people...haha


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## Youngtree777 (Mar 4, 2015)

HB is our Dyna-Gro evangelist/converter  heh


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## homebrewer (Mar 4, 2015)

LuckyLefty112 said:


> Hey HB, (this is my first post here btw, EVER...) i saw this thread not too long ago, and was intrigued, could the industry have everyone so fooled? So i decided to do a lil investigating, smoked, went to their website. Smoked, called their support number, then my mind was completely blown. I spoke to a guy named Raphael, very knowledgeable soul, and long story short, i wss convinced to try these nutes. Now, he suggested i use the Foliage Pro as opposed to Grow, i DO LIKE THE N COUNT! With the ProTekt, Mag Pro and Bloom, with some KLN for a couple weeks in the early veg and for cloning. I told him about your post and how it swung me, and then he talked to me about growing, politics, theory, and nonsense for like the next hour and a half. Soooo, i have those nutes on the way, cant wait, i mean obviously i cant speak to their performance yet, besides KLN which ive used on cuttings for a long time, but i can say they have an extremely knowledgeable staff, friendly, and i just wanted to stop in and say thank you, ive ALWAYS wanted a simple nute system without 16 seperate bottles, etc. and i probably wouldnt have ever tried it because of the ol 'if it seems too good to be true..'. So thank you for sharing and listening to nonsense from haters while staying headstrong and teaching the stupid (thats me, im the stupid), you got through to this guy. And HELLO RIU!!


Glad I could help. If you're growing in promix/coco/dirt, foliage pro and protekt is a great combo from start to finish. If you're in hydro, you might want to add 'bloom' during flowering, possibly starting with a 50/50 mix and tweak from there. I have not found a use for magpro and I only sometimes use KLN at cloning. 

So now you've got some great plant food coming your way, but things like your environment, your water source, your watering technique, and your feeding levels can all affect plant growth. What I like about DG is that it will grow perfect plants when paired with pure water. If I see a leaf spot or something, I know it's not the food, it's something else (lights too close, dehumidifier too strong, etc). 

Good luck, feel free to pop in with questions.


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## supdro (Mar 4, 2015)

I luv the ease of dg. like you said brew if I do dirt use 2 products and maybe even just the fp. Im currently in coco and I will have to use a little gh cal-mag so I don't get rust spots at 1ml per gallon not the recommended amount, but still the easiest product I have used


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## Youngtree777 (Mar 4, 2015)

supdro said:


> I luv the ease of dg. like you said brew if I do dirt use 2 products and maybe even just the fp. Im currently in coco and I will have to use a little gh cal-mag so I don't get rust spots at 1ml per gallon not the recommended amount, but still the easiest product I have used


I was thinking about this also but I hit up HB and also Dyna-Gro and they both told me not to use cal/mg in addition cuz it has the perfect amount already in it!

Funny you just said you find no use for mag pro HB cuz that was my next question hah. 

Your good man... maybe too good " insert paranoid smilie here  "


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## homebrewer (Mar 5, 2015)

supdro said:


> I luv the ease of dg. like you said brew if I do dirt use 2 products and maybe even just the fp. Im currently in coco and I will have to use a little gh cal-mag so I don't get rust spots at 1ml per gallon not the recommended amount, but still the easiest product I have used


If you're feeding at every watering, I wouldn't think calmag would be needed since DG is already supplying it. I wondering if moving from 1ml to 1.5mls/gal could make a difference? There is a talented grower who is killin' it in this journal (https://www.rollitup.org/t/sd-grows-gorilla-glue-4-phantom-og-and-ghost-og.853537/) using 1.25 - 1.5mls/gal of foliage pro.


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## supdro (Mar 5, 2015)

I have followed Sd actually I have pm him but that is from my personal experience where as I did get slight rust spots on lower leaves. I may try to remove cal-mag all together because I'm using a higher Ec Up to 550ppm hanna. Currently i add my pro tect then Cal Mag the rest of my EC is FP. currently I'm 2 weeks in flower do you think I should take out my cal mag and add FLoralicious plus?


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## supdro (Mar 5, 2015)

HB in that link SD switched to promix. I just returned a 5k bail lol. I have so much coco right now I think I'll stick with it for a little bit. A lil faster growth rate from what i heard. First time flowering with coco. Also my water is 150ppm and if I'm adding the same nutrients protect and FP it will pretty much be the same as promix just more frequent watering IMO.


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## homebrewer (Mar 5, 2015)

supdro said:


> HB in that link SD switched to promix. I just returned a 5k bail lol. I have so much coco right now I think I'll stick with it for a little bit. A lil faster growth rate from what i heard. First time flowering with coco. *Also my water is 150ppm* and if I'm adding the same nutrients protect and FP it will pretty much be the same as promix just more frequent watering IMO.


If I had to guess, your water is what is causing your rust spots. If calmag fixes that for you then keep on keepin' on with your calmag. I know that before my RO membranes need replaced, my RO machine will be kicking out water at 70ppm and at that ppm is where I start seeing odd spots.


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## supdro (Mar 5, 2015)

I have a new room I may start a journal I'm just not much for posting pictures. 2k Multi strain I have Blackwater, super Silver Haze, chem 91, vanilla Kush, purple kush, and pre 98 Bubba kush.it's not going to be your everyday journal though I veg a little too long my black water is over 6 foot tall


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## supdro (Mar 5, 2015)

TTE="homebrewer, post: 11376563, member: 231911"]If I had to guess, your water is what is causing your rust spots. If calmag fixes that for you then keep on keepin' on with your calmag. I know that before my RO membranes need replaced, my RO machine will be kicking out water at 70ppm and at that ppm is where I start seeing odd spots.[/QUOTE]
you are right I have a old ro and the membrane does need to be replaced I may start to wean them off of the cal to see what happens. matter fact I water today I'll try it


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## Youngtree777 (Mar 6, 2015)

Brotha Brewa! Question. .

Shoud I add Pro-Tekt with every watering?

Or just feedings?


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## supdro (Mar 6, 2015)

I have used it in my experience with every watering but I am in Coco but it can't hurt anything as a really doesn't adjust your PPM's too much... HB might have a different opinion


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## Youngtree777 (Mar 6, 2015)

supdro said:


> I have used it in my experience with every watering but I am in Coco but it can't hurt anything as a really doesn't adjust your PPM's too much... HB might have a different opinion


Im a coco loco loco 

I was doin aero but read horrible reviews on y hydrofarm pumps so decided not to risk it..

But ty everyones input is appreciated good sir lol nice disp pic btw


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## homebrewer (Mar 6, 2015)

I also use protekt at every watering, however, I noticed brittle leaves towards the end of flower which I thought was an accumulation of too much protekt during the plant's life. These days I still use protekt at every watering, I just stick to about 1/2 ml/gal, sometimes less.


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## a mongo frog (Mar 6, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> I also use protekt at every watering, however, I noticed brittle leaves towards the end of flower which I thought was an accumulation of too much protekt during the plant's life. These days I still use protekt at every watering, I just stick to about 1/2 ml/gal, sometimes less.


Do you use the protek in late flower? Say day 50 and on?


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## homebrewer (Mar 6, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Do you use the protek in late flower? Say day 50 and on?


That's a good question. In hydro I stopped using protekt during the last two weeks of flower. I just felt like it was unnecessary and a waste of protekt. I'm still playing with promix but I'll likely do something similar. It just depends on how 1/2ml/gal performs. I just recently started feeding with that new protekt dosage and will be harvesting the first plants from that 'tweak' in the next few weeks. So far I'm very happy with the feel of the leaves on this round of ladies.


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## a mongo frog (Mar 6, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> That's a good question. In hydro I stopped using protekt during the last two weeks of flower. I just felt like it was unnecessary and a waste of protekt. I'm still playing with promix but I'll likely do something similar. It just depends on how 1/2ml/gal performs. I just recently started feeding with that new protekt dosage and will be harvesting the first plants from that 'tweak' in the next few weeks. So far I'm very happy with the feel of the leaves on this round of ladies.


At a half ml i don't see why not. Most of us are at that 2.5 mark (i don't mean here, i mean grow circles), and not going past day 42 or even 35. The only reason i asked was because some one here mentioned something the other day in a lighting thread about adding K late for purposes of high heat and transpiration in the lights off cycle . Any way it was interesting and got me thinking is all.


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## supdro (Mar 6, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> I also use protekt at every watering, however, I noticed brittle leaves towards the end of flower which I thought was an accumulation of too much protekt during the plant's life. These days I still use protekt at every watering, I just stick to about 1/2 ml/gal, sometimes less.



At this time im at 1ml per gallon with protekt. I took your advice HB and got rid of the cal-mag which reduced my ec by almost 200ppm. So i upped the FP a little more than 1.5ml per gallon im sitting at 450ppm. I feel like I'm not doing enough with an EC that low I did notice my leaves are very green and some of the plants 2 picky plants had a little leaf curl is it best to have leaf curl or yellowing leaves on the bottom?


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## supdro (Mar 6, 2015)

Also another question hb I know you don't flush but do you feel you lose that much yield in the last week if you don't flush? why I ask is if you flush week 7 or 8 you're going to save money by not using nutrients what is your main reason for not flushing besides keeping them green? Thanks


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## homebrewer (Mar 6, 2015)

supdro said:


> At this time im at 1ml per gallon with protekt. I took your advice HB and got rid of the cal-mag which reduced my ec by almost 200ppm. So i upped the FP a little more than 1.5ml per gallon im sitting at 450ppm. I feel like I'm not doing enough with an EC that low I did notice my leaves are very green and some of the plants 2 picky plants had a little leaf curl is it best to have leaf curl or yellowing leaves on the bottom?


I feed at every watering so I like the lower EC range. Just run some tests on your end to see what works best for you.



supdro said:


> Also another question hb I know you don't flush but do you feel you lose that much yield in the last week if you don't flush? why I ask is if you flush week 7 or 8 you're going to save money by not using nutrients what is your main reason for not flushing besides keeping them green? Thanks


Flushing implies that these plants don't need any food in the last weeks of their life. The fact that flushing induces deficiencies shows that these plants do have nutritional needs near harvest. My goal is to grow and harvest the healthiest plants possible because that's how one will achieve their best results. I can understand where people who chronically overfeed their plants would feel like they need to flush. Personally I think that if you've overfed a plant for 6 weeks, 2 weeks of straight water isn't going to do squat to correct the mistakes the grower made up to that point. If you don't overfeed, you shouldn't feel the need to flush. Your leaves should be soft, your flowers should be beautifully fragrant, and your herb should be tasty.

The fact that I don't flush isn't so much based on yield, but based on common sense and good gardening practices. What other plants are flushed at harvest? I can't think of a single one other than cannabis which happens to be often grown by complete morons. No offense to anyone of course. But in regards to how I treat plants near harvest, I will lower the EC slightly in the last week maybe? Either way, plant health is first and foremost.


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## weedemart (Mar 6, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> DG with RO water, in my opinion, is THE way to grow with DG. My tap water isn't balanced and I get some funky leaf coloring if I try to use any brand of food with my tap water. I like DG because it has everything you need, calcium and Mg included, so it's pretty much plug-and-play in any medium.


thx man.


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## weedemart (Mar 6, 2015)

In horticulture , 50ppm Si or 100ppm SiO2 is the recommanded dosage .....Fertilizer rate are always too high in my experience.AN posted tissue analysis, they found that Si was in the same amount or really close to Iron amount. http://www.growersunderground.com/PhosphorusMyth.pdf
Not sure 100% , since it comes from them but it make sense to me since it's a micro. 5-10ppm SiO2 is safe IMO.


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## Youngtree777 (Mar 12, 2015)

wait... so your saying (HB) that with your ppm's at 500 or under for flowering you feed EVERY watering? Thats like three to four times a week correct? I thought you were doing water water feed?


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## homebrewer (Mar 12, 2015)

Youngtree777 said:


> wait... so your saying (HB) that with your ppm's at 500 or under for flowering you feed EVERY watering? Thats like three to four times a week correct? I thought you were doing water water feed?


Most plants only need watered every third day. It just depends on the size of the plant I guess. 

Yes, I used to feed, feed, water. That works too. Now I lowed the EC and feed at every watering. There is no correct or incorrect way as long as it's working for you.


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## Youngtree777 (Mar 12, 2015)

Whats your new lowered ppm rate now a days ?

I noticed a tree lookiN a lil yella.


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## homebrewer (Mar 12, 2015)

My ppm/EC rate is specific to my environment, watering frequency and strains. Do whatever gives you the best growth.


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## supdro (Mar 13, 2015)

I agree hb. I like the method of keeping things simple as possible I've been following you since 09 since you started using Dyna Gro and you really helped me learn how to read my plants while using one the most versatile nutrients..Ty


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## homebrewer (Mar 13, 2015)

supdro said:


> I agree hb. I like the method of keeping things simple as possible I've been following you since 09 since you started using Dyna Gro and you really helped me learn how to read my plants while using one the most versatile nutrients..Ty


Ultimately Uncle Ben inspired these tests as that's where I found out about DG but I'm glad you found some value in my comparison grows. It's been informative for me too


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## Youngtree777 (Mar 13, 2015)

I understand how different plants have different needs but my question has a little more to do with the comparison of using nutes at a rate of 800 to 1500 compared to DG at 500. I dont want to burn em watering them three times a week at 500 ppm nah mean 

So my question is did u go down from 500 or are you doin less than that in order to feed more maintenance. Which if I were to do so I would probably follow the directions @ 1/4 to 1/2 a tsp per gallon.. 
What you fellas tink ?


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## homebrewer (Mar 14, 2015)

Youngtree777 said:


> I understand how different plants have different needs but my question has a little more to do with the comparison of using nutes at a rate of 800 to 1500 compared to DG at 500. I dont want to burn em watering them three times a week at 500 ppm nah mean
> 
> So my question is did u go down from 500 or are you doin less than that in order to feed more maintenance. Which if I were to do so I would probably follow the directions @ 1/4 to 1/2 a tsp per gallon..
> What you fellas tink ?


There are different ppm scales so when you say 500ppm, that could be a different EC for a few different people. My plants like 0.4 EC, your plants might not.


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## Youngtree777 (Mar 16, 2015)

Well... I am following the directions on the bottles.. Got me about 200ppms on nutes alone plus Si and my biocozyme and nothin burned yet.. so thats about a third plus some compared to the 500+ I was using once every third watering.. I dont have an EC meter or setting on my ppm meter so I'm gonna follow my instinct. 

Thank you for all your help. Now pertaining to EC.. if say 500ppms can vary in EC then what causes this?? From what I understand from this thread ppm doesn't go hand in hand with EC correct?


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## homebrewer (Mar 16, 2015)

Youngtree777 said:


> Well... I am following the directions on the bottles.. Got me about 200ppms on nutes alone plus Si and my biocozyme and nothin burned yet.. so thats about a third plus some compared to the 500+ I was using once every third watering.. I dont have an EC meter or setting on my ppm meter so I'm gonna follow my instinct.
> 
> Thank you for all your help. Now pertaining to EC.. if say 500ppms can vary in EC then what causes this?? From what I understand from this thread ppm doesn't go hand in hand with EC correct?


Check out this chart: 

http://www.cannaversity.com/cannaversity/article.php?id=041


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## Observe & Report (Mar 16, 2015)

TDS meters don't actually measure total dissolved solids, they measure electrical conductivity (EC) and estimate the TDS. Since the EC<>TDS conversion ratio varies, using EC allows you to make comparisons without any conversion ambiguity.


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## wirat (Mar 16, 2015)

Youngtree777 said:


> Well... I am following the directions on the bottles.. Got me about 200ppms on nutes alone plus Si and my biocozyme and nothin burned yet.. so thats about a third plus some compared to the 500+ I was using once every third watering.. I dont have an EC meter or setting on my ppm meter so I'm gonna follow my instinct.
> 
> Thank you for all your help. Now pertaining to EC.. if say 500ppms can vary in EC then what causes this?? From what I understand from this thread ppm doesn't go hand in hand with EC correct?


What causes the variation is the different PPM scale of TDS/PPM meters people use. Electrical Conductivity (EC) and Parts Per Million (PPM) are two ways of arriving at the same conclusion; the concentration of mineral in the solution. 

EC is a direct reading, while PPM meters are calibrated conversions to one of three different popular PPM scales, listed in the link Homebrewer supplied. So the PPM to EC conversion will depend on what scale your TDS/PPM meter is calibrated to.

Using EC is a standard, kind of like saying if everyone used Greenwich Mean Time to tell time, we would never have to convert to time zones.

I bought a cheap Chinese TDS/PPM meter and was wondering the same thing. Nowhere did it say what scale it is calibrated to. I later discovered it is calibrated to the "Hanna" or "500" scale, because the calibration/buffer solution provided with it is labeled 1382ppm, which I learned is the calibration ppm for the 500 (Hanna) scale. I would think most Chinese knock-offs would be the same. If you got 1382ppm solution with it that would confirm.

Found this from a Hanna document:

"Hanna PPM Scales for Hanna Meters
1.Any meter that requires a calibration solution of
1500ppm is generally on the .7 calibration scale (called
the 442 scale)
2.Any meter that requires a calibration solution of
1382ppm is generally on the .5 calibration scale (
called the sodium chloride scale)..."

Learned all this right here man...


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## tightpockt (Mar 16, 2015)

I'm confused...I'm using coco and use 3ml per gallon in veg for a ppm of around 550 and all the way up to 6ml per gallon in flower....how are you able to keep your concentrations so low?


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## AUSCraig (Apr 7, 2015)

Hello. Lots of reading. Read most. So forgive me if I missed something. This test was done in 2011. Was the range PH perfect back then ? I use AN simply because it's easy to use and I don't need to mess with PH adjustment. Is there anything out there cheaper that I can try where I don't need to adjust ph levels. ? I'm not lazy , I just spend enough time with my tomato plants already and want things to take less time.


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## homebrewer (Apr 7, 2015)

AUSCraig said:


> Hello. Lots of reading. Read most. So forgive me if I missed something. This test was done in 2011. Was the range PH perfect back then ? *I use AN simply because it's easy to use and I don't need to mess with PH adjustment. Is there anything out there cheaper that I can try where I don't need to adjust ph levels. ? *I'm not lazy , I just spend enough time with my tomato plants already and want things to take less time.


The pH perfect stuff wasn't available at the time of this test but the gimmick that is 'pH perfect' would not have changed the outcome. What would have improved AN's results is the use of higher quality ingredients (no urea, no other water soluble nitrogen) and a more desirable NPK ratio for hydroponics.

In regards to your question,* just about every plant food on the market is less expensive and easier to use than what AN is offering*. *According to AN's site,* *each part of connoisseur should be ran at roughly 16ml/gal*. That means that I would have used about 1.4 gallons of plant food in this test alone. THAT is not only expensive but that rate-of-use would require A LOT of trips to the grow store. I don't know how much growing experience you have but trips to the grow store take way more time than adjusting the pH of a reservoir a few times per week. 

In regards to your comment about not wanting to 'mess with pH adjustments', it looks like you're running a drain-to-waste drip system according to your pics in this thread (https://www.rollitup.org/t/marshydro-led-grow.839368/page-39#post-11306228) so for you just about anything should be pH-stable since you don't recirculate. If you were running a recirculating system, I've heard Canna is pH stable and in my experience DynaGro is too. I just finished a 4 week ebb-n-flow veg cycle with protekt and foliage pro and the pH never moved from the 5.7 - 5.9 range. On top of that, a nine week flowering cycle in my 18 gallon res can be completed with about a litre of plant food. That's not only economical but that absolutely cuts down on the trips to the grow store.


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## AUSCraig (Apr 7, 2015)

I'm running full recirculating . 200 L res. I agree connessuir is a little steep in price terms. Not my choice Of nute either. 
I've grown many tomatoes before and I haven't had to adjust ph once with sensi in a wilma. 
My tomatoes look to be at least a pound with a 600w hps OG hood. I'm pretty pleased with this considering the ease of use.

The other nute you mentioned . I'll have a look into it. if it's cheaper and I never have to adjust I'll give it a go.


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## AUSCraig (Apr 7, 2015)

Note. ran at either 1/2 strength . Never over 3/4 strength at full bLoom.


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## Budzbuddha (Apr 7, 2015)

I like keeping money in my pocket ... DYNAGRO , simple to use , no Multi bottles to buy. 
Medium used : FFOF or Happy Frog / perlite / Activated Charcoal. 

Grow and Bloom are good . Protekt strengthens plants and provides heat stress protection. ( especially here in Cali ) 
Foliage Pro is even better.


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## homebrewer (Apr 7, 2015)

AUSCraig said:


> I'm running full recirculating . 200 L res. I agree connessuir is a little steep in price terms. Not my choice Of nute either.
> I've grown many tomatoes before and I haven't had to adjust ph once with sensi in a wilma.
> My tomatoes look to be at least a pound with a 600w hps OG hood. I'm pretty pleased with this considering the ease of use.
> 
> The other nute you mentioned .* I'll have a look into it. if it's cheaper and I never have to adjust I'll give it a go.*


No offense but are you really that lazy that you can't spare the 2 minutes that it takes every other day to adjust the pH of a reservoir? DG is pH stable in RO water for me but even if it wasn't there are about 5 other attributes that make it the *best* plant food for my garden. Sorry, it's just puzzling to me that you're OK with all the drawbacks that come with using a product from AN just so you can save 6 minutes per week. To each their own I guess.


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## AUSCraig (Apr 7, 2015)

Nevermind. I see this is just another AN bash page. 
No real answers Whilst you hate AN for their work on selling to sheep you are doing the exact same thing on this page with your sheep. 
AN is great for me and I'll continue to use it. 
Have fun hating


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## AUSCraig (Apr 7, 2015)

'Comparison' thread
LOL.
from the get go it sounded like you hated AN and had a big stiffy for Dyna. 
Next time don't be so bias throughout your 'comparison' Test.


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## Budzbuddha (Apr 7, 2015)

Sometimes simple is better.


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## tightpockt (Apr 7, 2015)

AUSCraig said:


> 'Comparison' thread
> LOL.
> from the get go it sounded like you hated AN and had a big stiffy for Dyna.
> Next time don't be so bias throughout your 'comparison' Test.


I don't think he's hating. He's just puzzled at why someone would use an inferior product that's more expensive.


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## homebrewer (Apr 7, 2015)

AUSCraig said:


> 'Comparison' thread
> LOL.
> from the get go it sounded like you hated AN and had a big stiffy for Dyna.
> Next time don't be so bias throughout your 'comparison' Test.


If you can't post facts, figures, or science to back up the nonsense coming from your keyboard then I'm going to have to ask you to leave and I'll have your posts deleted. The grow journal section is a troll free zone unlike every other forum on this site. 

Read this thread:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/do-not-post-in-other-peoples-grow-journals-unless-asked.1389/


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## LuckyLefty112 (Apr 9, 2015)

I gotta say, as someone who ran a.n. before, YES, ph is SOO much easier with ph perfect, however, seed to harvest, 4-5 total bottles, with figures like 2-5ml/gal, as opposed to 15+, money wise, aLOT cheaper for dYna, ph was annoying for me too at first, and hb, those nutes are doing me well, and i look to save about $100-150 this grow on nutes alone, with only 20gal res. Thats including my veg plants which are in small drip systems, so call it 25 gallons. So thanks for your input, and please dont be swayed, people like me neEd people like you. Youre solely responsible for me going dyna-gro, and maybe a.n. is easier to use in some ways, but i think knowing why my plants react a certain way is relevant to my Experience as a grower. ThereeThere's too many weed snobs who act like they never got advice before...


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## b29 (Apr 10, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> *Dyna-Gro vs Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur final writeup *
> 
> *** *Cliffs notes*: _I paid more for lower yields and more daily work_ ***
> 
> ...


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## homebrewer (Apr 10, 2015)

B29 - If you're a hydro guy, DG or H&G is who I'd recommend.


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## b29 (Apr 10, 2015)

Homebrewer, both look pretty good. My first hydro was in rockwool using GH inside. I was just tooling up, getting lights and buidling a top feed recirc system growing 6 plants-kali, blue widow and skunk. Success was amazing but I vegged for a long time and the plants in SOG sort of took over. Also, I probably should have harvested a little sooner, Kept looking for that amber and while the smoke is pretty good I think the buz on my sample taken a week earlier than harvest gave me more of what I wanted. Live and learn. I did flush at the end but just with water. I do find the smoke a bit harsh eveny though I think I have done a good cure (I'm in what once was prime tobacco land so I can appreciate a good cure). I have read much of the debate about organic vs syn nutes/ soil vs hydro and the quality of the smoke so I have no idea at this point what is best. Preparing for my next grow now so I may try to include a mix of hydro(again rockwool) vs promix blend (organic) to see if I notice one is smooter than the other.

You did a great comparison and I commend yur objectivity. I'm going to catch up on your other journals and look forward to seeing more. Thanks for the recomendatinon. Keep growing and homebrewing! I like my brew and have just started playing with a distiller--of course, I'm just making distilled water for my garden!


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## lerster (Apr 12, 2015)

Hey hb, not sure if you remember me at rm3's forum but what happened to it? I tried to contact rm3 but he isn't replying...is there a new site? If there is can you send it to me privately?


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## lerster (Apr 12, 2015)

I'm finding it difficult to send private msg on this thing. ...


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## homebrewer (Apr 12, 2015)

lerster said:


> Hey hb, not sure if you remember me at rm3's forum but what happened to it? I tried to contact rm3 but he isn't replying...is there a new site? If there is can you send it to me privately?


Yeah, Rid updated and move the site. You might need a certain number of posts before you can send a PM here.


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## lerster (Apr 14, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> Yeah, Rid updated and move the site. You might need a certain number of posts before you can send a PM here.


Ok I'm going to post more here til I get that function...so how are things for ya HB? Do you remember me?


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## homebrewer (Apr 14, 2015)

lerster said:


> Ok I'm going to post more here til I get that function...so how are things for ya HB? Do you remember me?


I can't complain . Your name definitely looks familiar.


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## lerster (Apr 14, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> I can't complain . Your name definitely looks familiar.


Probably because I asked you a bazillion questions about DG lmao


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## lerster (Apr 14, 2015)

Hey HB are you able to send me a msg?


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## Jason9922 (Apr 19, 2015)

The only thing I've done that's made a difference for me is to use microbial teas to keep all those problems at bay. I've been mixing a tea using the following ingredients one cup of Ancient forest soil amendment, two cups of earthworm castings, 1/2 teaspoon of ZHO powdered microbes, 1/2 teaspoon of Great White, 100 ml of Hydroguard, and 25mL of liquid carbo load or molasses per 24 hours of planned brew time. All dry stuff I put in a double wrapped nylon and then fish a small air stone into the middle of it, then tie it into a knot & drop it into a 5 gallon bucket filled with 3 gallons of distilled water and turn on the air pump. After bubbling with the one air stone inside the knot and three more small airstones in the bucket for 48 hours I strain and separate solids using cheesecloth putting tea into clean empty gallon jugs. It keeps for 10 days in the fridge. I add three cups for every ten gallons of water in a clean res change or 1 cup per ten gallons every third day to replenish the microbial army that keeps all the root rot and algae out of my water. Between the DG nutes and using the microbe tea, no light on water using net pot lids, I've yet to get any algae or root rot yet. White fiber filled roots and happy healthy plants!

So thanks again HB for all the info you've given. I know of three other people that use the DG method now after seeing my results!


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## Jason9922 (Apr 24, 2015)

HEY HOMEBREWER, DID I READ SOMEWHERE THAT YOUR USING THOSE NEW CERAMIC LIGHTS AND THAT THEY ARE WAY BETTER? I THOUGHT I READ SOMEONE TALKING ABOUT YOU ON ANOTHER FORUM SAYING YOUR POWER BILL WENT WAY DOWN ETC? SORRY IF THAT WAS SOMEONE ELSE. THANKS


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## Carolina Dream'n (Apr 24, 2015)

Jason9922 said:


> HEY HOMEBREWER, DID I READ SOMEWHERE THAT YOUR USING THOSE NEW CERAMIC LIGHTS AND THAT THEY ARE WAY BETTER? I THOUGHT I READ SOMEONE TALKING ABOUT YOU ON ANOTHER FORUM SAYING YOUR POWER BILL WENT WAY DOWN ETC? SORRY IF THAT WAS SOMEONE ELSE. THANKS


Why you yelling?


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## rory420420 (Apr 24, 2015)

Mycogrow..6$ an oz,everything great white,zho,and hydroguard have all together,in one package for a tenth of the price
Don't look at the pretty labels,READ them


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## homebrewer (Apr 24, 2015)

Jason9922 said:


> HEY HOMEBREWER, DID I READ SOMEWHERE THAT YOUR USING THOSE NEW CERAMIC LIGHTS AND THAT THEY ARE WAY BETTER? I THOUGHT I READ SOMEONE TALKING ABOUT YOU ON ANOTHER FORUM SAYING YOUR POWER BILL WENT WAY DOWN ETC? SORRY IF THAT WAS SOMEONE ELSE. THANKS


I tried ceramic halides and while I liked them they seemed to lose their kick after about 6 months. This is just an anecdotal observation. In regards to electricity, it was a 330watt CMH so there of course was a savings over the 400MH I was previously using but I certainly never noticed a difference in any utility bills after switching.


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## Jason9922 (Apr 24, 2015)

Oh ok well thanks for the quick reply. I was just reading about someone else who was just talking them up saying they were the future and going to replace HID's etc etc. So I wanted a no bs answer & seen he mentioned you. I'm still waiting for the LED lights that grow as well as an HID and are priced similarly. Have seen a few grows where people had multiple panel MARS brand LED lights, one dudes had a veg / bloom switch & a small grouping of UV bulbs that works well but is so expensive I won't be able to get one anytime soon. Thinking about experimenting with some tanning lights set to kick on for only like 8 minutes every hour during light cycle. An elder told me it could make a huge difference during bloom. Something to think about I guess. I'm pretty close to finishing a design on a plant dolly oscillator that rotates the whole pot 1 full turn. Just something else I was tinkering with.


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## Jason9922 (Apr 24, 2015)

rory420420 said:


> Mycogrow..6$ an oz,everything great white,zho,and hydroguard have all together,in one package for a tenth of the price
> Don't look at the pretty labels,READ them


Really? The guys at the hydro store told me that stuff was all one type of beneficial microbe and the reason my tea worked so well was because of all the different types of microbes. All 4 of them including the owner who's cool enough to allow his regulars to have a credit limit & never pushes expensive stuff told me that about Mycogrow. Have to look into that more. All the stuff I use for that tea is used in small amounts and lasts quite a while so it's not a big cost. Only the great white is pricey and from what I've read on many forums it's the best. Not by much but I've never heard anyone else say that about Mycogrow so I'll look into it a little more before I buy anymore beneficial microbial compounds.


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## Jason9922 (Apr 24, 2015)

rory420420 said:


> Mycogrow..6$ an oz,everything great white,zho,and hydroguard have all together,in one package for a tenth of the price
> Don't look at the pretty labels,READ them


Sorry I forgot to mention that I run hydro to. I guess Great White is one of the few that works in hydro I just read, but like I said, I just read on a post in here. In same post guys saying that Myco's Pumpkin something is the bomb but doesn't work well in dro. Idk once all my stuffs gone I'm always open to saving $. That's the whole reason I switched to DG. Best move I've made so far as to saving money. Besides the DG, microbe Tea to keep them roots hairy white fuzzy all the time, little GH Floralicious for flav. oh and the fact that I have been using two 9' diffusers in my res has seemed to keep the ladies happy. That and cooling my inline 1200 GPH water pump and air pump to same temp as room letting me need no chiller. Never worry about root rot again.. (yeah I can dream, LOL)


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## rory420420 (Apr 24, 2015)

Some guy at a hydro store told you to not to buy cheaper/in expensive items!!??!! You don't say??...I DONT BELIEVE YOU!!!


Jason9922mll said:


> Sorry I forgot to mention that I run hydro to. I guess Great White is one of the few that works in hydro I just read, but like I said, I just read on a post in here. In same post guys saying that Myco's Pumpkin something is the bomb but doesn't work well in dro. Idk once all my stuffs gone I'm always open to saving $. That's the whole reason I switched to DG. Best move I've made so far as to saving money. Besides the DG, microbe Tea to keep them roots hairy white fuzzy all the time, little GH Floralicious for flav. oh and the fact that I have been using two 9' diffusers in my res has seemed to keep the ladies happy. That and cooling my inline 1200 GPH water pump and air pump to same temp as room letting me need no chiller. Never worry about root rot again.. (yeah I can dream, LOL)


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## Jason9922 (Apr 25, 2015)

rory420420 said:


> Some guy at a hydro store told you to not to buy cheaper/in expensive items!!??!! You don't say??...I DONT BELIEVE YOU!!!


Yes, the guy is honest with me & as I said he has never pushed anything on me & helps everyone to grow cheap. And I confirmed today at the hydro store, where it was confirmed that Mycos is one single strain compared to the many in my tea & the theory is the one is better but there is no proof of this ( says the Mycos sales rep I spoke with ) so I'll check it out when my stuffs gone but its nothing special, one person has been hyping it that I've found in any forum. Everyone else I've spoke with uses a tea. So I'll stick with using a variety and you stick with using what you use.


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## rory420420 (Apr 25, 2015)

Read the packages..


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## rory420420 (Apr 25, 2015)

It also was a suggestion..not a demand..some people don't feel they're getting a deal without a special package to show their friends...to each their own...
I've read the packages.the simple one isn't pretty,but out preforms..and def has more.

Happy growing.


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## Jason9922 (Apr 26, 2015)

I did read them. If you think Mycos which only has endo / ecto myco's compared to the tea I described Great White (alone has trichomedera and much more bacteria than mykos), ZHO, earthworm castings & ancient forrest don't even need to list what beneficial stuff they add because the Great White alone has more. If Mykos beats all that then I guess your right and all the people using beneficial microbial teas give it up to them. Surprised people aren't raving about it.


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## Jason9922 (Apr 26, 2015)

BTW, I'm in a Dyna Gro smokes AN thread, pretty package etc don't apply here. I grew bud that was a little less as good using Jacks for years. I only use those few "pretty packaged products" because it creates an environment where I can have a 70 gallon recirculating system with no chiller needed. I'm happy saving the $ not needing a chiller or the power it uses or the heat it creates. So honestly man I'm probably making out way cheaper than most hydro growers who use chillers. But I'm still going to check out the Mykos, dude gave me 3 of the "bars" to try because the Mykos sales rep sent them a load of samples. I'll probably end up throwing some in the next batch of tea just for the hell of it.


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## Theophilus (May 16, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> That's a good question. In hydro I stopped using protekt during the last two weeks of flower. I just felt like it was unnecessary and a waste of protekt. I'm still playing with promix but I'll likely do something similar. It just depends on how 1/2ml/gal performs. I just recently started feeding with that new protekt dosage and will be harvesting the first plants from that 'tweak' in the next few weeks. So far I'm very happy with the feel of the leaves on this round of ladies.


Are you now using a small amount of pH up to get you where you would normally be when you were adding the higher dosage of Protekt?


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## kubalibre53 (Aug 16, 2015)

hb thanks for the great info what ratio gro & bloom do you mix per gal. o ro water to get the 1-3-2 ratio thanx bro,im growin serious ak-47 in gh water fams I will be switchin to dyna in about 2 weeks at start of new grow thanx again


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## kubalibre53 (Aug 16, 2015)

hb thanks for the great info what ratio gro & bloom do you mix per gal. o ro water to get the 1-3-2 ratio thanx bro,im growin serious ak-47 in gh water fams I will be switchin to dyna in about 2 weeks at start of new grow thanx again


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## homebrewer (Aug 16, 2015)

kubalibre53 said:


> hb thanks for the great info what ratio gro & bloom do you mix per gal. o ro water to get the 1-3-2 ratio thanx bro,im growin serious ak-47 in gh water fams I will be switchin to dyna in about 2 weeks at start of new grow thanx again


Try 1/3 grow, 2/3rds bloom. As long as your feeding levels aren't sky high, that ratio should work great.


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## kubalibre53 (Aug 16, 2015)

will I need cal mag with that 1/3 grow 2/3 bloom ratio.anything else I should add,thanx bro!!


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## Jason9922 (Aug 16, 2015)

HB I'm having some issues, I'm currently running in soil as I've moved again and my room is far from done. Lots of electrical to run still. Anyways, I have been able to keep 2 cloned mother plants (pink kush and chemdawg) and one from seed (pineapple chunk) and no matter what I do I'm getting these weird problems. The chemdawg leaves are leathery and almost have a blue tint in the middle, the pineapple chunk out of nowhere leaves will just get brown ends, idk heres some pics below. I've used same dyna gro protect mix with PH adjusted to 5.8 - 6.2 in water before feeding. Any ideas?


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## homebrewer (Aug 17, 2015)

kubalibre53 said:


> will I need cal mag with that 1/3 grow 2/3 bloom ratio.anything else I should add,thanx bro!!


Calmag is not needed. Preferably with any plant food you're going to want to use very clean water, something like RO or distilled for your best results.


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## homebrewer (Aug 17, 2015)

Jason9922 said:


> HB I'm having some issues, I'm currently running in soil as I've moved again and my room is far from done. Lots of electrical to run still. Anyways, I have been able to keep 2 cloned mother plants (pink kush and chemdawg) and one from seed (pineapple chunk) and no matter what I do I'm getting these weird problems. The chemdawg leaves are leathery and almost have a blue tint in the middle, the pineapple chunk out of nowhere leaves will just get brown ends, idk heres some pics below. I've used same dyna gro protect mix with PH adjusted to 5.8 - 6.2 in water before feeding. Any ideas?


What are you feeding them and what is your dosage (mls/gal)? What is your medium? RO water or tap? If tap, what it the EC/ppm of your tap water?


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## Jason9922 (Aug 23, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> What are you feeding them and what is your dosage (mls/gal)? What is your medium? RO water or tap? If tap, what it the EC/ppm of your tap water?


Please remember, I just moved, AGAIN, so all of my nutrient supplies are buried except one box I could easily get to. So I've been feeding them what was leftover from a three part PH perfect AN 1/2 tspn of each per gallon (1/2 tspn of Grow, Micro, & Bloom which is a half dose bottle called for full tspn) and a half tspn of Pro Tekt per gallon mixed together with Tap water giving me a PH of 6.8 - 7.3 which I then lower to 5.6 - 5.8. My ppm gauge is buried with the rest of all my Dyna Gro nutrients & this is all I have to work with forprobably 1 more week until they get here. So how bad you thinking specially since I've been hydro feeding soil (because the only soil I ever grew in was outdoors, hydro indoors only until now). The plants are in sterilized potting soil using home made air pots because I was planning to eventually possiblly do a soil rinse and transfer them to buckets with hydroton before vegging them. Yeah I know sounds crazy, but dude ever since I started using Pro Tekt it seems like it makes the plants impermiable to stress and they can take some crazy stuff as compared to without. Otherwise I'll just move them to bigger containers until I can clip a flat of clones and start out fresh with a flat.


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## homebrewer (Aug 24, 2015)

Jason9922 said:


> Please remember, I just moved, AGAIN, so all of my nutrient supplies are buried except one box I could easily get to. So I've been feeding them what was leftover from a three part PH perfect AN 1/2 tspn of each per gallon (1/2 tspn of Grow, Micro, & Bloom which is a half dose bottle called for full tspn) and a half tspn of Pro Tekt per gallon mixed together with Tap water giving me a PH of 6.8 - 7.3 which I then lower to 5.6 - 5.8. My ppm gauge is buried with the rest of all my Dyna Gro nutrients & this is all I have to work with forprobably 1 more week until they get here. So how bad you thinking specially since I've been hydro feeding soil (because the only soil I ever grew in was outdoors, hydro indoors only until now). The plants are in sterilized potting soil using home made air pots because I was planning to eventually possiblly do a soil rinse and transfer them to buckets with hydroton before vegging them. Yeah I know sounds crazy, but dude ever since I started using Pro Tekt it seems like it makes the plants impermiable to stress and they can take some crazy stuff as compared to without. Otherwise I'll just move them to bigger containers until I can clip a flat of clones and start out fresh with a flat.


Using hydroponic foods in a promix-type medium is totally fine. I don't know exactly what your issue is but I'd be interested in knowing more about your tap water. If your tap water isn't great then the 'best' plant food in the world isn't going to be of much use to you.


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## Jason9922 (Aug 24, 2015)

The tap water is good but has a high PH to start along with significant chlorine. I don't have any scientific info on the water at this place yet but I've been buying and feeding them with distilled water only using the tap rarely.


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## Hereseed (Sep 22, 2015)

Single best thread on this site! I've read through it twice now in as many months and felt compelled to say , Homebrewer, the manner and professionalism in which this experiment was conducted , coupled with the focus of the comments and replies ,are on a level the likes of which are a rare find on forum sites these days! Thank you for your efforts and willingness to share. May your future be as green as your thumb!


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## homebrewer (Sep 22, 2015)

Hereseed said:


> Single best thread on this site! I've read through it twice now in as many months and felt compelled to say , Homebrewer, the manner and professionalism in which this experiment was conducted , coupled with the focus of the comments and replies ,are on a level the likes of which are a rare find on forum sites these days! Thank you for your efforts and willingness to share. May your future be as green as your thumb!


Thanks for the kinds words!


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## Theophilus (Sep 28, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> I'm kind of digging the Canna suggestion. I don't know a lot about their base nutrients, what Canna base do people use in their hydro systems?


Either Canna or even Nectar of the God's would be interesting to follow


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## Theophilus (Sep 28, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> It's a dry food so the NPK values are going to be higher (Jacks Classic is 20-20-20).


Speaking of Jack's, would you recommend their Citrus blend over their more 'all-purpose' 20-20-20?


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## homebrewer (Sep 28, 2015)

Theophilus said:


> Speaking of Jack's, would you recommend their Citrus blend over their more 'all-purpose' 20-20-20?


Yeah, I think that citrus blend is a 20-10-20 which is more in line with what plants actually use.


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## Hortipro (Oct 7, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> I use the 7-9-5 grow along with the 3-12-6 Bloom and when mixed together, I can achieve very close to a 1-3-2 ratio. Because I use RO water, I use Magpro in hydro and have not had any issues with deficiencies at all. In dirt however, I usually feed, feed, water and on my 'water' days, I'll mix in about 3mls per gallon of calmag because RO is not ideal with my peat-based soil-less mix. DynaGro for me has been a very trouble free nutrient to use in both dirt and hydro.


Hey, I'm not an AN fan boy or beginner grower, got that out of the way. I have used dyna gro, botanicare, fox farm, AN, earth juice and more. Out of all that I have used I prefer AN. Not because it destroys the competition as far as quality goes (I care about taste, fragrance, and resin production more than net yield). I prefer it because I have had pH issues with all other brands including dyna gro. First off with dyna gro after I mix a batch I have to add a shit ton of pH up because the stuff is so acid and with RO water there is nothing to counter act that from the start and the pH will drop dramatically over a period of 12 hours after adding pH up so I have to add more pH up. This cycle continues for about 3 days until the pH finally stabilizes and I've added alarming levels of pH up to my reservoir. pH up is usually potassium hydroxide meaning that I am adding extra plant available potassium just to stabilize my pH. That means my NPK ratios will be incorrect if I don't account for the pH up. And since most pH ups on the market don't label or are not required to label the concentration of the formula, this is hard to do. I have had similar problems with other lines as well. I like AN because it works and I use very little pH up or down (so I'm not indroducing a lot of unknown quantities of plant available nutrients like phosphoric acid aka ph down will increase phosphorus levels). Using less pH stabilizers also reduces my total grow cost so it helps offset the higher cost of AN nutrients. There are more to nutrients than just net yield. Ease of use and batch consistency are important to me so I use AN. AN is also THE ONLY nutrient company that supports cannabis growers. Try calling any other brands support line with questions about cannabis and they will hang up on you.


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## Hortipro (Oct 7, 2015)

Jason9922 said:


> View attachment 3480721 View attachment 3480716 View attachment 3480717 View attachment 3480716 View attachment 3480717 View attachment 3480718 View attachment 3480719 View attachment 3480720 View attachment 3480721 HB I'm having some issues, I'm currently running in soil as I've moved again and my room is far from done. Lots of electrical to run still. Anyways, I have been able to keep 2 cloned mother plants (pink kush and chemdawg) and one from seed (pineapple chunk) and no matter what I do I'm getting these weird problems. The chemdawg leaves are leathery and almost have a blue tint in the middle, the pineapple chunk out of nowhere leaves will just get brown ends, idk heres some pics below. I've used same dyna gro protect mix with PH adjusted to 5.8 - 6.2 in water before feeding. Any ideas?


Reduce your solution ppm or feed less often. Your plants look like they have nutrient lockout. When using hydroponic nutes in soil you must use way less concentration or feed less because soil will 'hold on' to those salts for longer than inert mediums. That means the ppm at the roots could be much higher than the ppm of your feed solution.


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## Hortipro (Oct 7, 2015)

Jason9922 said:


> View attachment 3480721 View attachment 3480716 View attachment 3480717 View attachment 3480716 View attachment 3480717 View attachment 3480718 View attachment 3480719 View attachment 3480720 View attachment 3480721 HB I'm having some issues, I'm currently running in soil as I've moved again and my room is far from done. Lots of electrical to run still. Anyways, I have been able to keep 2 cloned mother plants (pink kush and chemdawg) and one from seed (pineapple chunk) and no matter what I do I'm getting these weird problems. The chemdawg leaves are leathery and almost have a blue tint in the middle, the pineapple chunk out of nowhere leaves will just get brown ends, idk heres some pics below. I've used same dyna gro protect mix with PH adjusted to 5.8 - 6.2 in water before feeding. Any ideas?


I just reread your post. You say the pineapple chunk is from seed. Did you grow it yourself? Was it selected from a group of seeds that you started or did you just grow one seed and that's the plant you got? If you just grew one seed then you could have a genetics issue. The plant may not be capable of handling a heavy feeding program because it is either a weakling plant or that strain just can't take it. When you start seeds ideally you want to start 10 times as many seeds as the number of plants you wish to grow. This is because about 30-50% will be males and of the remaining females 10% will have strong genetics capable of producing nice, fast growing, high yielding, healthy plants. If you want good results from seed you have to start a lot of seeds and weed out males and weaklings. (I usually start 20 or more seeds at a time to get one strong mother)


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## homebrewer (Oct 7, 2015)

Hortipro said:


> Hey, I'm not an AN fan boy or beginner grower, got that out of the way. I have used dyna gro, botanicare, fox farm, AN, earth juice and more. Out of all that I have used I prefer AN. Not because it destroys the competition as far as quality goes (I care about taste, fragrance, and resin production more than net yield). I prefer it because I have had pH issues with all other brands including dyna gro. First off with dyna gro after I mix a batch I have to add a shit ton of pH up because the stuff is so acid and with RO water there is nothing to counter act that from the start and the pH will drop dramatically over a period of 12 hours after adding pH up so I have to add more pH up. This cycle continues for about 3 days until the pH finally stabilizes and I've added alarming levels of pH up to my reservoir. pH up is usually potassium hydroxide meaning that I am adding extra plant available potassium just to stabilize my pH. That means my NPK ratios will be incorrect if I don't account for the pH up. And since most pH ups on the market don't label or are not required to label the concentration of the formula, this is hard to do. I have had similar problems with other lines as well. I like AN because it works and I use very little pH up or down (so I'm not indroducing a lot of unknown quantities of plant available nutrients like phosphoric acid aka ph down will increase phosphorus levels). Using less pH stabilizers also reduces my total grow cost so it helps offset the higher cost of AN nutrients. There are more to nutrients than just net yield. Ease of use and batch consistency are important to me so I use AN. AN is also THE ONLY nutrient company that supports cannabis growers. Try calling any other brands support line with questions about cannabis and they will hang up on you.


DG's Protekt is pretty alkaline which balances out the acidity of the nutrients (most nutrients are acidic). DG's foods also contain more ammoniacal nitrogen (~30%) than most which seems to correct the ever-rising pH issue that most fully nitrate hydroponic formulas have. For me, DG has been the only pH stable hydroponic food that I've ever used (nearly all foods require pH down over the course of the week, including AN's Connoisseur). If you're finding that you need a lot of pH up over the course of the week, I'd suggest leaching your medium as rockwool will accumulate acidic mineral salts and affect the pH of your reservoir. If you're not using rockwool, add a silica product to your feeding regimen. I've been using DG for over 4 years now and just recently had to buy more pH-adjusting solution for the first time since switching to DG, no lie. I bought a gallon of pH up from GrowMore. That shiz is 4 times more potent than GH's product.


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## The420Guru (Oct 8, 2015)

Hey Homebrewer Have you ever tried Photosynthesis plus (Plus-C in California) ? I tried it in my last grow for adding Mycorrhizae and it has had great results on cloning seedlings and root structure in general. It also makes some fuzzy white roots with allowing me to cut back on my nutes. I also tried Quantum growth light which i guess is the same as Plus C only one has higher concentration then the other.. ( I think Plus-C is higher but not sure been to lazy to research it lately as my 16 lighter was just raided unfortunately for my partner he was the one there) we are legal but to bad he was involved in other things that lead to the raid. I am only doing about 16 plants now growing them bigger main lining for 8 tops and have actually increased weight by about 0.21g per watt. I have compared it to BioAg vam Endo and Mike O rizey which Plus-C seems to dominate. ( I do add some calcium nitrate when i inoculate the soil ) now I will be using DG as I was using GH and due to your post and experimenting side by side in soil pots I have gone away from GH. Thank you btw for all the hard work. My old line up was
GH 3 part
Protekt
Liquid kelp ( foliar )
CytoPlus ( last week veg to week 2 flower)

Flower I'm thinking of replacing Cyto ( http://www.bioag.com/images/Cyto_Tech.pdf ) with Bio nutrients AG 8-1-9 ( http://www.growthproducts.com/pdfs/Ag_BioNutrients_Soluble_AG.pdf ) and cut my Plus-C to 1/2 tsp g for the amino acids. If I even really need them..

Your thoughts?


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## homebrewer (Oct 8, 2015)

I love Floralicious Plus but that Cyto looks really good on paper even though they say 10% is not soluble. That could cause issues in hydro systems. I don't know that those two products are comparable to one another. You could probably use both but you'd still be missing magnesium.


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## homebrewer (Oct 9, 2015)

Hortipro said:


> AN is also THE ONLY nutrient company that supports cannabis growers. Try calling any other brands support line with questions about cannabis and they will hang up on you.


I wanted to comment on this as I found your statement ironic. I'd hardly say that AN 'supports' cannabis growers given their high prices and the fact that their base nutrients are some of the most watery foods on the market. Their 'support' is simply a marketing gimmick when in reality they're a bunch ripoff artists.


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## TBoneJack (Oct 9, 2015)

I'd like to join in and offer an opposing opinion, if I may. I hope I won't be perceived as biased.

I like AN. So far, that is.

I'm a long time organic grower who has, for several years, used a homemade soil mix that takes me all the way to harvest with nothing but un-ph'ed tap water. No nutes or additives of any kind. I copied the soil mix from member @sidewing here on RIU, so I can't take credit for it. But it's a great soil mix.

Anyway, my upper back and neck issues have compelled me to try grow methods that don't require the effort of mixing soil and carrying heavy pots. And since I absolutely hate adjusting pH, I decided to try the AN "pH Perfect Connoisseur" nutes first.

So far, I've been pleased. In an even comparison grow, AN is out-dueling my tried-and-true organic soil. So far, that is.

See my comparison grow here: https://www.rollitup.org/t/satori-comparison-grow-organic-vs-soilless-synthetic.879321/

I'm using AN Connoisseur Grow & Bloom, plus the Hobbyist package. So far, the only complaint I have is cost.

The convenience of bottled nutes that don't require pH adjustment is a huge appeal to me. And on top of that, it sure looks like I'll get a significantly bigger harvest than I'm used to. So it's gonna be hard for me to abandon AN.

I've actually tried Dyna Gro, based upon recommendations by @homebrewer . And Dyna Gro worked pretty well. With pH adjustments, that is. And I just hate adjusting pH. In fact, I've decided that I'll never adjust pH again.

So it appears that my only choices are organic on the one hand, and AN on the other. And I'm thinking I'll choose AN.


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## homebrewer (Oct 9, 2015)

TBoneJack said:


> I'd like to join in and offer an opposing opinion, if I may. I hope I won't be perceived as biased.
> 
> I like AN. So far, that is.
> 
> ...


You don't need to pH-adjust foods before you water as your medium has plenty of buffering power. I stopped pH-ing my stuff a long time ago with no ill affects.

And of course bottled foods will out perform organic soil grows. The organic crowd is not doing what they do for big yields.


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## posterart (Oct 9, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> I love Floralicious Plus but that Cyto looks really good on paper even though they say 10% is not soluble. That could cause issues in hydro systems. I don't know that those two products are comparable to one another. You could probably use both but you'd still be missing magnesium.


Hello , I am posterart . I am new here . I use Dyna Gro products and like them . I have foloowed a lot of threads and posts from homebrewer and appreciate all the knowledge and experience you share . : ))


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## sidewing (Oct 13, 2015)

TBoneJack said:


> I'd like to join in and offer an opposing opinion, if I may. I hope I won't be perceived as biased.
> 
> I like AN. So far, that is.
> 
> ...


In my opinion you'd be financially better off making your own raw salt formula.. Raw salts if you're sourcing your own ingredients are just as good as organics. They're considered natural, it's hard to get a lot of natural things officially labeled organic. But you can (if you wanted) basically recreate their watered down product for a fraction of the price. I have another thread up called "hydrobuddy" that has my formula I'm using in hydro/dwc. I deal with chronic back and neck pain and carrying the heavy pots after harvest was rough. Now I only have to carry a 5 gallon bucket to the sink once a week to dump it on reservoir change. 
I will say with a soil mix the smoke is very smooth right after chop and dry without cure. In hydro it's a little more harsh right after dry with no cure, but after a 2 to 4 week cure it's actually better. 
I spent about 200 bucks on all my raw salts (half of that was buying each individual chelated micro nutrient) and I have enough to last me a couple years of some ingredients, longer on others.


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## TBoneJack (Oct 13, 2015)

sidewing said:


> In my opinion you'd be financially better off making your own raw salt formula.. Raw salts if you're sourcing your own ingredients are just as good as organics. They're considered natural, it's hard to get a lot of natural things officially labeled organic. But you can (if you wanted) basically recreate their watered down product for a fraction of the price. I have another thread up called "hydrobuddy" that has my formula I'm using in hydro/dwc. I deal with chronic back and neck pain and carrying the heavy pots after harvest was rough. Now I only have to carry a 5 gallon bucket to the sink once a week to dump it on reservoir change.
> I will say with a soil mix the smoke is very smooth right after chop and dry without cure. In hydro it's a little more harsh right after dry with no cure, but after a 2 to 4 week cure it's actually better.
> I spent about 200 bucks on all my raw salts (half of that was buying each individual chelated micro nutrient) and I have enough to last me a couple years of some ingredients, longer on others.


Thanks. I'll check out your new blog.

Your soil mix was fire (yet not too hot) for my plants for a long time. I appreciate your efforts in experimenting and then posting your results.

Even if I decide to go with AN in the future, I'm sure I'll grow organic again sometime. I love organics. But I'll invest in one of those cement mixers sold by Harbor Bay, to save my back and neck from turning my compost tumbler 100 times...


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## sidewing (Oct 13, 2015)

Thanks. I don't log it here, I do it on another (private not public) forum. But it has the recipe here. 
I found subcools to be way too hot and I could taste it in the final product. Mine ran out of gas just in time for harvest.

On my raw salt mix the ph with everything is 7.0.. But if you lower the level of agsil (potassium silicate) it'll drop the ph, you can dial it to be a perfect 6.5 for soil.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Oct 29, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> You don't need to pH-adjust foods before you water as your medium has plenty of buffering power. I stopped pH-ing my stuff a long time ago with no ill affects.
> 
> And of course bottled foods will out perform organic soil grows. The organic crowd is not doing what they do for big yields.


Do you personally add anything to your pro-mix bx besides the vermiculite and perlite to even out the texture? I keep seeing people suggesting lime this and lime that and can't seem to see why you would need it in a soilless with DG...? I'm not going to be growing any landraces (YET!).

And for the PH guy - if you mix at the proper ratio, then DG will come out at the exact number you need; unless you skimped on the Pro-Tekt, then ignore the previous statement.


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## homebrewer (Oct 29, 2015)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> Do you personally add anything to your pro-mix bx besides the vermiculite and perlite to even out the texture? I keep seeing people suggesting lime this and lime that and can't seem to see why you would need it in a soilless with DG...? I'm not going to be growing any landraces (YET!).



Nope, I only use those three things to make my promix mix: promix, vermiculite, and perlite.

Lime has a handful of benefits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_lime) but I would only use it if I were growing organically. DG already supplies all the elements that my plants need. 



> And for the PH guy - if you mix at the proper ratio, then DG will come out at the exact number you need; unless you skimped on the Pro-Tekt, then ignore the previous statement.


I can't speak for other mediums but I stopped messing with pH in promix and have not noticed any negatives since doing so. Promix seems to buffer the pH very well.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Nov 2, 2015)

I noticed on the first page that at that time you were doing a feed, feed, water routine when you were in dirt (I think sunshine?). You were using 3ml/gal of calmag during the water day with ro. Do you do the same in Pro-mix? Or does the lime supply enough?


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## homebrewer (Nov 2, 2015)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> I noticed on the first page that at that time you were doing a feed, feed, water routine when you were in dirt (I think sunshine?). You were using 3ml/gal of calmag during the water day with ro. Do you do the same in Pro-mix? Or does the lime supply enough?


Now I just feed at every watering with no calmag and no lime. Works great!


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## Macmac124 (Nov 16, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> Now I just feed at every watering with no calmag and no lime. Works great!


Hey home brewer love the thread i tried using dg when i first started two years ago with ill effect and switched to general organics but i got things dialed in and wanted to see what dg could do for me in soil . I also seen the feed feed water and didnt want to rinse soil out in flower do you still feed at 3ml/gl all the way thru flower and i clone in rock wool then move to dirt what should i give my babies that are just rooted in rockwool ready to go in soil /foliage pro/ grow/ bloom/ and at what rate per gallon for them and should i feed feed water with them because they are small or just feed every watering ? tips are appreciated thanks homebrewer


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## homebrewer (Nov 16, 2015)

Macmac124 said:


> Hey home brewer love the thread i tried using dg when i first started two years ago with ill effect and switched to general organics but i got things dialed in and wanted to see what dg could do for me in soil . I also seen the feed feed water and didnt want to rinse soil out in flower do you still feed at 3ml/gl all the way thru flower and i clone in rock wool then move to dirt what should i give my babies that are just rooted in rockwool ready to go in soil /foliage pro/ grow/ bloom/ and at what rate per gallon for them and should i feed feed water with them because they are small or just feed every watering ? tips are appreciated thanks homebrewer


I feed in the range of 1/2 tsp/gal during flower in promix but those rates are very specific to how often I feed, the size of my plants, the location of my plants in the garden, the volume of water I water with, and the wattage I run. DG's grow or foliage pro when used correctly will compete and often out-perform anything on the market but as with any food that takes some work on the grower's end to dial it in. Given the fact we're only dealing with one part, that shouldn't be that hard . 

Newly rooted clones? I feed them foliage pro from start to finish with a little protekt.


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## agil78 (Nov 21, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> Just make sure you have a pH pen and a TDS meter then hit me up for a suggested feeding schedule for dirt or hydro. DGs nutes will fry plants at normal doses because their highly concentrated so thats the only thing Id tell growers to watch out for.


Hi, Homebrewer. I was just reading through this awesome thread and am convinced to switch to Dyna-Gro. Would you happen to have this 1-3-2 ratio feeding schedule? It would be invaluable to me. I'm in a recirculating hydro DWC.

Thank you!


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## homebrewer (Nov 21, 2015)

agil78 said:


> Hi, Homebrewer. I was just reading through this awesome thread and am convinced to switch to Dyna-Gro. Would you happen to have this 1-3-2 ratio feeding schedule? It would be invaluable to me. I'm in a recirculating hydro DWC.
> 
> Thank you!


Feed at the EC that works for you right now. I like Grow or Foliage pro in veg. I like combos of bloom and FP _or_ Grow during flower, using just enough Grow _or_ FP to keep the plants green.


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## agil78 (Nov 21, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> Feed at the EC that works for you right now. I like Grow or Foliage pro in veg. I like combos of bloom and FP _or_ Grow during flower, using just enough Grow _or_ FP to keep the plants green.


Do you find the Mag Pro necessary while flowering when you're using the Grow/Bloom combo? I imagine the NPK levels of the Mag Pro are unnecessary when using the grow/bloom combo? Maybe just some Cal Mag which doesn't have all of the P & K that Mag Pro contains?


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## homebrewer (Nov 22, 2015)

agil78 said:


> Do you find the Mag Pro necessary while flowering when you're using the Grow/Bloom combo? I imagine the NPK levels of the Mag Pro are unnecessary when using the grow/bloom combo? Maybe just some Cal Mag which doesn't have all of the P & K that Mag Pro contains?


Grow, Bloom, and Foliage Pro already contain calcium and magnesium so cal/mag is not needed. Neither is Magpro.


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## Raymundo Rocket (Nov 22, 2015)

Hello homebrewer. I got a DG grow schedule from Customer Service ( the one that has the figures for Foliage Pro or Grow). You mention in this thread that those figure will burn my plants. What is the schedule that you suggest for Soil and Coco Coir?

Thank you.


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## homebrewer (Nov 22, 2015)

Raymundo Rocket said:


> Hello homebrewer. I got a DG grow schedule from Customer Service ( the one that has the figures for Foliage Pro or Grow). You mention in this thread that those figure will burn my plants. What is the schedule that you suggest for Soil and Coco Coir?
> 
> Thank you.


Read this page.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Dec 1, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> Now I just feed at every watering with no calmag and no lime. Works great!


OK followed directions. Transplanted this about 6 days ago to promix bx with some perlite and vermiculite mixed in. Went into 2 gallon fabric pot. it's the only plant i have going, under a 100x3 mars hydro led lamp. just watered at the beginner of their light cycle last night with dyna gro fp @ 100 ppm (.5 scale) and a couple drops of protekt 16oz. of solution. I went ahead and ph's it to 5.9, just because. the last watering was 1 day after transplant and she got dynagro fp @ 50 ppm (.5 scale) with no protekt 8 oz. of solution, didn't ph that time.

She looks horrible, and i admit she started to look bad while still in the seed starting soil (but very minor). Are my levels all wrong? temps are 68-80 (usually 78 on 70 off) with rh 60-65 off and 35-48 on. what am i doing wrong here? c99 from female seeds and my only one because of my tiny space.

sorry to hijack


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## chuck estevez (Dec 1, 2015)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> OK followed directions. Transplanted this about 6 days ago to promix bx with some perlite and vermiculite mixed in. Went into 2 gallon fabric pot. it's the only plant i have going, under a 100x3 mars hydro led lamp. just watered at the beginner of their light cycle last night with dyna gro fp @ 100 ppm (.5 scale) and a couple drops of protekt 16oz. of solution. I went ahead and ph's it to 5.9, just because. the last watering was 1 day after transplant and she got dynagro fp @ 50 ppm (.5 scale) with no protekt 8 oz. of solution, didn't ph that time.
> 
> She looks horrible, and i admit she started to look bad while still in the seed starting soil (but very minor). Are my levels all wrong? temps are 68-80 (usually 78 on 70 off) with rh 60-65 off and 35-48 on. what am i doing wrong here? c99 from female seeds and my only one because of my tiny space.
> 
> sorry to hijack


are you using distilled water?


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## homebrewer (Dec 1, 2015)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> OK followed directions. Transplanted this about 6 days ago to promix bx with some perlite and vermiculite mixed in. Went into 2 gallon fabric pot. it's the only plant i have going, under a 100x3 mars hydro led lamp. just watered at the beginner of their light cycle last night with dyna gro fp @ 100 ppm (.5 scale) and a couple drops of protekt 16oz. of solution. I went ahead and ph's it to 5.9, just because. the last watering was 1 day after transplant and she got dynagro fp @ 50 ppm (.5 scale) with no protekt 8 oz. of solution, didn't ph that time.
> 
> She looks horrible, and i admit she started to look bad while still in the seed starting soil (but very minor). Are my levels all wrong? temps are 68-80 (usually 78 on 70 off) with rh 60-65 off and 35-48 on. what am i doing wrong here? c99 from female seeds and my only one because of my tiny space.
> 
> sorry to hijack


Yeah, those don't look great but the good news is that they have plenty of time to recover. My first question would be what kind of water are you using? My second thought is that your feeding levels are pretty low. When I water small plants with a weak EC/ppm mix, they actually aren't getting very much food because of the volume of water that I'm using. Small plants don't get 16 ounces at every watering. Make sense? I actually feed _small_ plants a healthy dose of food, maybe .5 EC or 250 ppm (.5 scale). Once they've been transplanted, I'll cut those feeding levels in half or so because at that point they're getting watered with a great volume of water.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Dec 1, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> Yeah, those don't look great but the good news is that they have plenty of time to recover. My first question would be what kind of water are you using? My second thought is that your feeding levels are pretty low. When I water small plants with a weak EC/ppm mix, they actually aren't getting very much food because of the volume of water that I'm using. Small plants don't get 16 ounces at every watering. Make sense? I actually feed _small_ plants a healthy dose of food, maybe .5 EC or 250 ppm (.5 scale). Once they've been transplanted, I'll cut those feeding levels in half or so because at that point they're getting watered with a great volume of water.


It's only one girl, the space i have is pretty small - going for quality over quantity, that's why i came to the pro.
I've been using the walmart ro water (out of the machine, usually somewhere between 50-120 ppm .5 scale), or i tried nestle purelife which comes in at 66 ppm.
I understand what you're saying about the volume and strength of water/feed based on the size. This is in a 2 gallon fabric pot, like i said, and if i give 16 ounces spread around the outer part of the container i have no runoff and i'm pretty sure most of the feed doesn't reach the bottom of the pot. 
I'll try to raise the ppm again to 250 and maybe water it at about 10-12oz. Wait a week or so and see if it takes off, then lower my ppm a little bit and start giving her more water. Sound about right?


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## homebrewer (Dec 1, 2015)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> It's only one girl, the space i have is pretty small - going for quality over quantity, that's why i came to the pro.
> I've been using the walmart ro water (out of the machine, usually somewhere between 50-120 ppm .5 scale), or i tried nestle purelife which comes in at 66 ppm.
> I understand what you're saying about the volume and strength of water/feed based on the size. This is in a 2 gallon fabric pot, like i said, and if i give 16 ounces spread around the outer part of the container i have no runoff and i'm pretty sure most of the feed doesn't reach the bottom of the pot.
> I'll try to raise the ppm again to 250 and maybe water it at about 10-12oz. Wait a week or so and see if it takes off, then lower my ppm a little bit and start giving her more water. Sound about right?


Look for distilled water if you can.

Also, to my tastes, you moved those plants to large pots too early, IMO. I like to have a nice, green, healthy, well established plant in a 16oz beer cup before they move to 1 gallon pots. 

But as it stands, I'd increase your feed levels and water around the base of your plants in sort of a star pattern. Don't worry about run-off, worry about feeding your roots and keeping them healthy.


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## chuck estevez (Dec 1, 2015)

well, I know HB is the pro here, But I have seen this a million times. when you use r/o or distilled water and don't replaced the lost cal/mag, you get that look to your plant. Upping your feed should up your cal/mag too, Just not sure if it will be enough to fix your issue.


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## homebrewer (Dec 1, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> well, I know HB is the pro here, But I have seen this a million times. when you use r/o or distilled water and don't replaced the lost cal/mag, you get that look to your plant. Upping your feed should up your cal/mag too, Just not sure if it will be enough to fix your issue.


The calcium in tap water is calcium carbonate and is not readily available to our plants like say calcium nitrate.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Dec 1, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> The calcium in tap water is calcium carbonate and is not readily available to our plants like say calcium nitrate.


It's funny because i did awesome (for a beginner) the first two grows: one was seed starter soil on the top 2" then FFOF below in 2 gallon fabric pots, the second was a transplant from seed starter soil to coco brick (the cheapest one you can get at menards....was like $2) in a 1.5 liter hempy with perlite in the res. 

I had measured both of them in ml/gal instead of ppm. I am very precise and very detail oriented so i switched to ppm. Long story short, look at the pictures. Maybe i just wanted to go a little too low, trying not to overfeed or overwater or overanything. 

However, HB did help me before by telling me to drop calmag and it worked wonders in coco. I can't believe that calmag is going to help when this looks like more of a n/mag/p deficiency to me. Calmag may be necessary for some nutrient lines, but if i didn't need it in coco, i can't believe that dyna gro doesn't supply enough cal/mag. Oh yeah, I used distilled water until this grow


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## chuck estevez (Dec 1, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> The calcium in tap water is calcium carbonate and is not readily available to our plants like say calcium nitrate.


I read a post from someone that knew the chemistry of it and it made sense to me. something about how r/o or distilled not having certain minerals in it will strip it from the soil to get it back or something like that. All I know is, when i see spots or purple stems, it usually gets fixed with a dose of cal/mag. I use r/o and FP. but you knew that.lol and I have seen many people with the same look after using distilled.Just throwing it out there


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## homebrewer (Dec 1, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> *I read a post from someone that knew the chemistry of it and it made sense to me. something about how r/o or distilled not having certain minerals in it will strip it from the soil to get it back or something like that.* All I know is, when i see spots or purple stems, it usually gets fixed with a dose of cal/mag. I use r/o and FP. but you knew that.lol and I have seen many people with the same look after using distilled.Just throwing it out there


That may be the case but I would never water my plants with straight RO water. RO is simply a blank slate where the added plant food brings things back into an ideal balance (hopefully). The minerals in my tap water absolutely conflict with the elements in my plant food rendering some elements unavailable to my plants. 

That being said, if calmag is your fix, keep doing it.


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## supdro (Dec 1, 2015)

I would luv to use tap instead of RO. It comes out of my faucet at 700ppm tho! I don't think that's good


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## GuyLeDuche (Dec 2, 2015)

I have the opposite situation, my tap water comes out 35ppm (and about 8.4ph). Admittedly my meters are the cheapest, but brand new.. Does this seem possible and if so, what should I be doing ( and what causes the high PH)? I use DG Foliage and Bloom, and have ProTekt on order. Sounds like I may need CalMag as well? I do see some rust spots on fan leaves from time to time....


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## homebrewer (Dec 2, 2015)

GuyLeDuche said:


> I have the opposite situation, my tap water comes out 35ppm (and about 8.4ph). Admittedly my meters are the cheapest, but brand new.. Does this seem possible and if so, what should I be doing ( and what causes the high PH)? I use DG Foliage and Bloom, and have ProTekt on order. Sounds like I may need CalMag as well? I do see some rust spots on fan leaves from time to time....


Your pH isn't an issue and neither is your ppm.


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## GuyLeDuche (Dec 2, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> Your pH isn't an issue and neither is your ppm.


8.4 is _kind of_ an issue, ph down isn't the healthiest thing to drown your plants in... But really my question was re: the rust spots and if that was a sign of needing calmag because of the low ppm water?


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## chuck estevez (Dec 2, 2015)

GuyLeDuche said:


> 8.4 is _kind of_ an issue, ph down isn't the healthiest thing to drown your plants in... But really my question was re: the rust spots and if that was a sign of needing calmag because of the low ppm water?


if you added DGFP, it should bring your ph down. Adding more should bring your cal and mag up. I do find when I see those spots that a watering with cal/mag will fix it. But I could just need to do the same and up my feeding amount. But it's rare I see it and I have been seeing great success going the way i have, so if it ain't broke.............


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## homebrewer (Dec 2, 2015)

GuyLeDuche said:


> 8.4 is _kind of_ an issue, ph down isn't the healthiest thing to drown your plants in... But really my question was re: the rust spots and if that was a sign of needing calmag because of the low ppm water?


At 35ppm, your bicarbonate levels are going to be very low which is why I said your pH is not an issue. 

My water is near zero ppm and I don't supplement calcium or magnesium, ever. I don't see why you'd need to either but do whatever makes you happy.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Dec 5, 2015)

Just an update:
Everything is starting to green back up and the top is now pointing straight up at the light. I think she's going to make it through. Thanks so much for the help.


I was just wondering, this guy was telling me about these nutes called "Advanced Nutrients". I was thinking about getting the whole box, he said I'll need them all to grow massive colas.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Dec 22, 2015)

OK back to problems.
I have been following your suggestions as far as feeding (I think) and have a log of everything.

From Dec 2 - December 6 I was watering every other day with 10 oz of water @ .5ec (250 ppm on .5scale)
12-8 12 oz @ 200ppm
12-10 14oz @ 150ppm
12-13 12oz @ 164ppm
12-15 12oz @ 178ppm
12-17 12oz @ 134 ppm
12-19 12 oz @ 138 ppm
12-21 12oz @ 140 ppm

I'm not quite sure what's going on. Recap: Using Promix BX Myco w/ a little extra Vermi and Peli - always ph nutrient mix to 5.8. Using equal amount of protekt and foliage pro in distilled water since 12-8.

Looks like the top leaves and major fan leaves off the main stem only get a small size and have a dark green vein thing going on with lighter green edges.

I slowed down on nutes because they looked burned, and water every other day because the fabric pot feels light after that time. Pictures are a 5 hours before lights out on watering day (watered 1/2 -1 hour after lights on every time).


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## chuck estevez (Dec 22, 2015)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> OK back to problems.
> I have been following your suggestions as far as feeding (I think) and have a log of everything.
> 
> From Dec 2 - December 6 I was watering every other day with 10 oz of water @ .5ec (250 ppm on .5scale)
> ...


it's the distilled water, I guarantee it. I said before, I see the same thing and fix it with cal/mag


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## homebrewer (Dec 22, 2015)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> OK back to problems.
> I have been following your suggestions as far as feeding (I think) and have a log of everything.
> 
> From Dec 2 - December 6 I was watering every other day with 10 oz of water @ .5ec (250 ppm on .5scale)
> ...


It's not a calcium or magnesium issue in the sense that you need to add more than what DG supplies (I use RO water, Promix, and DG w/no calmag. Why would that _only_ work for me in both hydro _and_ promix?), I think you're under-watering your plants and therefore under-feeding them too. I think your nutrient dose is fine but you need to do a better job of getting those plants established in those pots. You said you took those pictures on a watering day? Then why isn't your medium moist? You have a decent amount of root/moisture stress going on and you need to rehydrate your medium with a better watering technique. If you need training wheels, go buy a watering can from a garden store, the kind that poor out through a shower head and water with 16 ounces of water as needed. I promise that if you yanked that plant out of that pot, you'd see a highly under-developed root system.


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## chuck estevez (Dec 22, 2015)

What I am saying is the distilled water is causing the issue. AGAIN, I have seen it over and over, I am not just talking out of my ass.
perfect example, Had the same problem with this girl.

you can see the lowers, the top looked like that a few days ago. I gave her a big dose of cal/mag and within 2 days she is green and red veins are gone


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## Resinhound (Dec 22, 2015)

Very curious to see the outcome of this,carry on gentlemen


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## hotrodharley (Dec 22, 2015)

supdro said:


> I would luv to use tap instead of RO. It comes out of my faucet at 700ppm tho! I don't think that's good


Mine is harder.Mine is EC1.6 or 800PPM. I use RO for feeds but NOT to water in between. In fact I mix RO with my tap even for feeds after the first feeding to avoid calcium and other deficits. chuckestevez is telling you. Listen. Don't use RO or distilled water exclusively.


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## homebrewer (Dec 22, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> What I am saying is the distilled water is causing the issue. AGAIN, I have seen it over and over, I am not just talking out of my ass.
> perfect example, Had the same problem with this girl.
> View attachment 3569914
> you can see the lowers, the top looked like that a few days ago. I gave her a big dose of cal/mag and within 2 days she is green and red veins are gone


Chuck, those lower leaves are not deficient in calcium. Also, calmag bottles are often derived from calcium and magnesium nitrate. If something greened up that's from nitrogen. Do you have a better picture of a 'calcium deficiency'?

The hydro plants below were _only_ fed DG bases and Protekt with RO water near zero ppm. I've sent multiple samples to labs for analysis, DG's formulas supply plenty of calcium and magnesium even after a week of floods. 

You need to do what works for you in your garden but I am telling you that DG bases do not need extra calcium and magnesium. 









Here is another in promix at harvest. Foliage pro, protekt, RO water, no additional calmag supplementation. Why don't I need calmag?


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## chuck estevez (Dec 22, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> Chuck, those lower leaves are not deficient in calcium. Also, calmag bottles are often derived from calcium and magnesium nitrate. If something greened up that's from nitrogen. Do you have a better picture of a 'calcium deficiency'?
> 
> The hydro plants below were _only_ fed DG bases and Protekt with RO water near zero ppm. I've sent multiple samples to labs for analysis, DG's formulas supply plenty of calcium and magnesium even after a week of floods.
> 
> ...


AGAIN, I am not saying that a cal/mag def is the problem, I am saying that the distilled water is stripping the soil of something that is causing this issue. Cal/mag just seems to fix it.
also, I have a room full of plants, all get r/o pro-tek,FP and only 1 or 2 will do this. so maybe it is certain strain issue too.


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## homebrewer (Dec 22, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> AGAIN, I am not saying that a cal/mag def is the problem, I am saying that the distilled water is stripping the soil of something that is causing this issue. Cal/mag just seems to fix it.
> also, I have a room full of plants, all get r/o pro-tek,FP and only 1 or 2 will do this. so maybe it is certain strain issue too.


No one should be watering their plants with straight distilled water. Is someone doing that? Did I miss that in a post? I would imagine if someone is watering with only distilled then that is definitely not ideal unless we're talking about organic soils. RO/distilled water is merely the starting point to which one adds a complete plant food. I never feed my plants 'nothing'. Even as a plant is nearing harvest it will still get light doses of food and/or an organic-ish additive like floralicious plus.


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## chuck estevez (Dec 22, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> No one should be watering their plants with straight distilled water. Is someone doing that? Did I miss that in a post? I would imagine if someone is watering with only distilled then that is definitely not ideal unless we're talking about organic soils. RO/distilled water is merely the starting point to which one adds a complete plant food. I never feed my plants 'nothing'. Even as a plant is nearing harvest it will still get light doses of food and/or an organic-ish additive like floralicious plus.


I said it earlier in the thread, someone who knows better than me said because of the lack of anything in distilled, it will search out and replace stripped minerals. I think that is what is happening here. I am not 100% on what causes it exactly, but i know I have seen it over and over with the use of r/o or distilled water and the fix is always cal/mag.some plants just don't like it i guess or just need more of what's in that bottle of cal/mag


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## supdro (Dec 22, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> Chuck, those lower leaves are not deficient in calcium. Also, calmag bottles are often derived from calcium and magnesium nitrate. If something greened up that's from nitrogen. Do you have a better picture of a 'calcium deficiency'?
> 
> The hydro plants below were _only_ fed DG bases and Protekt with RO water near zero ppm. I've sent multiple samples to labs for analysis, DG's formulas supply plenty of calcium and magnesium even after a week of floods.
> 
> ...


HB lookin good as usual! Im running the same setup maybe you can help. I Make my promix with premium peat and perilite do you ph your nutes? Also in your flood what ec do you start with? Or do you have a base nute schedule to go by? I know you preach what works for you but wondering what you use. Thanks


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## SamsonsRiddle (Dec 22, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> It's not a calcium or magnesium issue in the sense that you need to add more than what DG supplies (I use RO water, Promix, and DG w/no calmag. Why would that _only_ work for me in both hydro _and_ promix?), I think you're under-watering your plants and therefore under-feeding them too. I think your nutrient dose is fine but you need to do a better job of getting those plants established in those pots. You said you took those pictures on a watering day? Then why isn't your medium moist? You have a decent amount of root/moisture stress going on and you need to rehydrate your medium with a better watering technique. If you need training wheels, go buy a watering can from a garden store, the kind that poor out through a shower head and water with 16 ounces of water as needed. I promise that if you yanked that plant out of that pot, you'd see a highly under-developed root system.


Sorry to start this same battle again, there, fellers. 

I will go ahead and use more volume of water with nutrients (i never use plain ro or distilled) than I have been and i'll stop using my old turkey baster to give it water if you think it'll help.


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## chuck estevez (Dec 22, 2015)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> Sorry to start this same battle again, there, fellers.
> 
> I will go ahead and use more volume of water with nutrients (i never use plain ro or distilled) than I have been and i'll stop using my old turkey baster to give it water if you think it'll help.


that's what good about HB, he's level headed, there is no battle here, we both have the same goal and that is to fix your problem.
If upping the feeding works, i will try it myself next time i have a plant do this. As of right now, i know what fixes it.


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## homebrewer (Dec 22, 2015)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> Sorry to start this same battle again, there, fellers.
> 
> I will go ahead and use more volume of water with nutrients (i never use plain ro or distilled) than I have been and i'll stop using my old turkey baster to give it water if you think it'll help.


If you don't use a shower head watering can, I'd water around the base of your plants in a star pattern out of a measuring cup. Make sense? Your goal is to grow happy and healthy roots and if you can do that then the plant above ground will thrive. Keep us posted please.


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## homebrewer (Dec 22, 2015)

supdro said:


> HB lookin good as usual! Im running the same setup maybe you can help. I Make my promix with premium peat and perilite do you ph your nutes? Also in your flood what ec do you start with? Or do you have a base nute schedule to go by? I know you preach what works for you but wondering what you use. Thanks


I used to pH my nutes from promix, these days I do not and there has been no change.

That's my flowering E&F setup and I pretty much run 1.0 EC until the end.


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## supdro (Dec 22, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> I used to pH my nutes from promix, these days I do not and there has been no change.
> 
> Cooo how long did you let that girl veg!!!
> 
> That's my flowering E&F setup and I pretty much run 1.0 EC until the end.


Wooow couldnt imagine staying that low of an ec! You are in rockwool i assume. Do you get a lot of pH swings? Are you keeping the rez sterile or bennies?


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## SamsonsRiddle (Dec 22, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> If you don't use a shower head watering can, I'd water around the base of your plants in a star pattern. Make sense? Your goal is to grow happy and healthy roots and if you can do that then the plant above ground will thrive. Keep us posted please.


without any pictures, i do believe i have been doing the star pattern you told me to do before (using my reliable turkey baster) by starting the streak of water at the fabric pot and making it towards the base of the plant in a line, move over 1/2" and repeat. 

Kind of looks like this * 

I do this at about 1 oz per line at a time slowly poured so it's not just a puddle.


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## homebrewer (Dec 22, 2015)

supdro said:


> Wooow couldnt imagine staying that low of an ec! You are in rockwool i assume. Do you get a lot of pH swings? Are you keeping the rez sterile or bennies?


No pH swings in hydro at all actually. I've found DG to be very pH stable ever since the first week I tested them in my garden. One thing that helps keep things stable is a leaching of my rockwool blocks about every 4 weeks in flower. So usually this means at the halfway point of flowering I'll run a gallon or two of tap water through my RW blocks. 

I've messed with great white in hydro, I like it. As much as you'd think it doesn't keep your res healthy and clean, it does.


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## questiondj42 (Dec 22, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> No pH swings in hydro at all actually. I've found DG to be very pH stable ever since the first week I tested them in my garden. One thing that helps keep things stable is a leaching of my rockwool blocks about every 4 weeks in flower. So usually this means at the halfway point of flowering I'll run a gallon or two of tap water through my RW blocks.
> 
> I've messed with great white in hydro, I like it. As much as you'd think it doesn't keep your res healthy and clean, it does.


Not even a few points either way? I switched to RO after switching to DG, and still experience small swings of 3-4 points either way in my DWC res.


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## homebrewer (Dec 22, 2015)

questiondj42 said:


> Not even a few points either way? I switched to RO after switching to DG, and still experience small swings of 3-4 points either way in my DWC res.


I use enough protekt to balance the pH of my DG bases and things stay put for pretty much the entire week. Maybe I'll drift from 5.91 to 5.79 but I'd certainly consider that stable if I'm not required to make an adjustment. 

DWC could be different given the fact that your roots are in constant contact with your res.


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## questiondj42 (Dec 23, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> I use enough protekt to balance the pH of my DG bases and things stay put for pretty much the entire week. Maybe I'll drift from 5.91 to 5.79 but I'd certainly consider that stable if I'm not required to make an adjustment.
> 
> DWC could be different given the fact that your roots are in constant contact with your res.


That would make sense. I have one plant whose roots seem to be very averse to the water. As in, the roots in the water don't grow. But everything above the waterline is beautiful. I usually see a dip of 3-4 points overnight and have to manage. Part of me is ready to ditch DWC for ProMix or some other hydro system.


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## homebrewer (Dec 23, 2015)

questiondj42 said:


> That would make sense. I have one plant whose roots seem to be very averse to the water. As in, the roots in the water don't grow. But everything above the waterline is beautiful. I usually see a dip of 3-4 points overnight and have to manage. Part of me is ready to ditch DWC for ProMix or some other hydro system.


Hydro is only great for automation, speed, and yield. Promix or any other container medium is great for variety and versatility. I like that I can move my promix pots around the room or have a 110 day sativa next to a 65 day indica. Watering can become a chore sometimes though and the fact that something ALWAYS needs watered every day can make the hobby a ball-and-chain on our life. 

Trade offs


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## questiondj42 (Dec 23, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> Hydro is only great for automation, speed, and yield. Promix or any other container medium is great for variety and versatility. I like that I can move my promix pots around the room or have a 110 day sativa next to a 65 day indica. Watering can become a chore sometimes though and the fact that something ALWAYS needs watered every day can make the hobby a ball-and-chain on our life.
> 
> Trade offs


This is very true! Although, I'm having pretty decent luck just running flower my res at 1.0-1.2ec and moving plants in and out. I use restaurant silverware washing tubs to get the root mass to grow uniform, then take it off. This avoids the tangles. The biggest gripe is the water changes. But, since switching to RO, I'm noticing more pH stability the more time between res changes. 

How much Protekt are you running per gallon? I've been doing 2.5ml per, but I'm playing with backing it off a little bit.


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## homebrewer (Dec 23, 2015)

questiondj42 said:


> This is very true! Although, I'm having pretty decent luck just running flower my res at 1.0-1.2ec and moving plants in and out. I use restaurant silverware washing tubs to get the root mass to grow uniform, then take it off. This avoids the tangles. The biggest gripe is the water changes. But, since switching to RO, I'm noticing more pH stability the more time between res changes.
> *
> How much Protekt are you running per gallon?* I've been doing 2.5ml per, but I'm playing with backing it off a little bit.


It depends on the res but I think close to 4mls/gal balances my pH. In the last week or two I drop it and just use pH up to balance things.


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## questiondj42 (Dec 23, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> It depends on the res but I think close to 4mls/gal balances my pH. In the last week or two I drop it and just use pH up to balance things.


I will give that a whirl for a few weeks and see how it pans out. Also looking into RO filters, but christ, does that get overwhelming fast.


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## chuck estevez (Dec 23, 2015)

questiondj42 said:


> I will give that a whirl for a few weeks and see how it pans out. A*lso looking into RO filters*, but christ, does that get overwhelming fast.


http://www.purewaterclub.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=67&products_id=264


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## supdro (Dec 23, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> It depends on the res but I think close to 4mls/gal balances my pH. In the last week or two I drop it and just use pH up to balance things.


To balance your ph do you meter and add protekt after your nutes added? I have but they say protekt should be first. I haven't had silica fall out yet but wondering if it effects anything


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## homebrewer (Dec 23, 2015)

supdro said:


> To balance your ph do you meter and add protekt after your nutes added? I have but they say protekt should be first. I haven't had silica fall out yet but wondering if it effects anything


I added protekt first and with a little trial and error I found around 4mls balances the acidity of my plant food.


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## questiondj42 (Dec 23, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> I added protekt first and with a little trial and error I found around 4mls balances the acidity of my plant food.


You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.


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## supdro (Dec 23, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> I added protekt first and with a little trial and error I found around 4mls balances the acidity of my plant food.


HB i was thinking that but with changing variables of filter getting dirty the ph and ec of water coming out will have an effect over time. May or may not have the same outcome. Long as they stay green!


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## chuck estevez (Dec 23, 2015)

take a look at this, look at his reply to what I asked him. It never fails with distilled
https://www.rollitup.org/t/red-stems-unknown-strain.893794/#post-12175891


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## homebrewer (Dec 23, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> take a look at this, look at his reply to what I asked him. It never fails with distilled
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/red-stems-unknown-strain.893794/#post-12175891


His plant looks fine though.


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## posterart (Dec 23, 2015)

I just wanted to wish a happy holidaze to all . Really appreciate the advice I have gained at Roll It Up .


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## chuck estevez (Dec 23, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> His plant looks fine though.


it's just starting, next the leaves will start to yellow and the red will get worse. Don't you find it funny how many times I find this problem and the answer they always say is distilled water?


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## homebrewer (Dec 23, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> it's just starting, next the leaves will start to yellow and the red will get worse. Don't you find it funny how many times I find this problem and the answer they always say is distilled water?


I think in the case of that guy, he only has four grows under his belt and is currently growing a very healthy plant. Apparently he's never seen anything other than green stems so he comes to the forum for advice. What is funny is that 9 out of 10 new growers in his situation overthink a non-issue like 'colored stems' and make a change that will cause an _actual_ problem for the plant. 

IMO, he has a healthy plant with no problems and he should stay the course.


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## chuck estevez (Dec 23, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> I think in the case of that guy, he only has four grows under his belt and is currently growing a very healthy plant. Apparently he's never seen anything other than green stems so he comes to the forum for advice. What is funny is that 9 out of 10 new growers in his situation overthink a non-issue like 'colored stems' and make a change that will cause an _actual_ problem for the plant.
> 
> IMO, he has a healthy plant with no problems and he should stay the course.


guess time will tell


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## SamsonsRiddle (Jan 3, 2016)

Buckle up, buckaroos!

Here's the update of my feeding log along with pictures, they were taken right after lights came on and they haven't receieved their water yet. All ppm measurements are on the .5 scale and the ppm's are mixture 1:1 of Foliage Pro and Protekt mixed into Distiller water or store bought R.O. water (20ppm).
I'm noticing a little yellowing on the bottom (already plucked off two little buggers that only needed me to breathe on them the wrong way to knock em off - completely yellow) and have started to increase dosage accordingly. The current amount of water I'm using allows for just enough runoff to measure my ppms. When i first started watering enough for runoff the ppm coming out was at 1900, today it is at about 350.

Any thoughts?
12/23 [email protected] <---recommended by @homebrewer
12/24 [email protected]
12/26 [email protected]
12/28 [email protected]
12/30 [email protected]
1/1 [email protected]
1/3 [email protected]

Still using the turkey baster.


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## homebrewer (Jan 3, 2016)

I'm confused at how your medium looks dry yet you're feeding them a quart of water every other day. Your medium should be drying out evenly and even then, it shouldn't be drying out. It should go from wet to moist. Don't worry about a yellow leaf or two, work on growing healthy roots in a healthy, hydrated medium.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Jan 4, 2016)

Factors leading to quickly drying:
Very quick ventilation
Fabric Pot
Oscillation fan blows on the pot
Temperature pretty static at 79

I started watering every day today and will see what happens with her. It took 28oz (140ppm) to get about the same runoff i was getting before (5%).


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## homebrewer (Jan 4, 2016)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> Factors leading to quickly drying:
> Very quick ventilation
> Fabric Pot
> Oscillation fan blows on the pot
> ...


Yeah, every day with maybe a little less water. Keep us posted.


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## farside05 (Jan 6, 2016)

HB, thanks for this thread. I've read this thread from start to finish. Took me a couple slow nights at work to accomplish the task. I'm a relative rookie, I have one half-assed grow under my belt and think I know where I went wrong. First the particulars. I'm growing Auto's, 3 gallon fabric pots, Promix + 20% perlite, 2 - 300 watt LED's with 2 more on the way, 6 in duct fan connected to a carbon filter, and an oscillating tower fan blowing across the plants, Foliage Pro and Pro-Tekt, tap water at 144 ppm. Just happened to make the choice on Dyna-Gro products based on some other things I had read and up front cost but before finding this thread. Was hoping to find a magic bullet/feeding schedule when I began this read, but understand now why its not possible. About my 1st grow. Everything was going well for about 30 days then I started getting spots on the edges of leaves and lightness between veins. From pics i've seen it looked like both Calcium and Magnesium deficiencies. I tried different PH levels thinking that they were getting locked out. That didn't help much. Bought Mag-Pro, didn't help much. Where I think I went wrong was not watering to the point of runoff and getting some salt buildup which threw everything way off and locked out nutrients. I suffered through it and harvested enough to supply the wife with meds until the next harvest. I'm on to my next grow and planning on doing MUCH better. I'm about 25 days in and so far everything looks pretty good, minus some nute burn on one of the plants. I have 2 different strains going, same age, and fed them the same (1/4 tsp per gallon of Foliage Pro on their 1st feed). Ice Cool got burnt by that amount and my Trainwrecks were showing some nitrogen deficiencies at the same feeding level. This only goes to prove that there is no magic feeding schedule like I originally had hoped I'd find. The environment was exactly the same and just the difference of which strain you are growing can dictate how much you feed. I'm learning more on how to read my plants needs and hope to triple my yield from last time. Another couple weeks should give me an idea if I'm on pace.


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## homebrewer (Jan 6, 2016)

farside05 said:


> HB, thanks for this thread. I've read this thread from start to finish. Took me a couple slow nights at work to accomplish the task. I'm a relative rookie, I have one half-assed grow under my belt and think I know where I went wrong. First the particulars. I'm growing Auto's, 3 gallon fabric pots, Promix + 20% perlite, 2 - 300 watt LED's with 2 more on the way, 6 in duct fan connected to a carbon filter, and an oscillating tower fan blowing across the plants, Foliage Pro and Pro-Tekt, tap water at 144 ppm. Just happened to make the choice on Dyna-Gro products based on some other things I had read and up front cost but before finding this thread. Was hoping to find a magic bullet/feeding schedule when I began this read, but understand now why its not possible. About my 1st grow. Everything was going well for about 30 days then I started getting spots on the edges of leaves and lightness between veins. From pics i've seen it looked like both Calcium and Magnesium deficiencies. I tried different PH levels thinking that they were getting locked out. That didn't help much. Bought Mag-Pro, didn't help much. Where I think I went wrong was not watering to the point of runoff and getting some salt buildup which threw everything way off and locked out nutrients. I suffered through it and harvested enough to supply the wife with meds until the next harvest. I'm on to my next grow and planning on doing MUCH better. I'm about 25 days in and so far everything looks pretty good, minus some nute burn on one of the plants. * I have 2 different strains going, same age, and fed them the same (1/4 tsp per gallon of Foliage Pro on their 1st feed). Ice Cool got burnt by that amount and my Trainwrecks were showing some nitrogen deficiencies at the same feeding level.* This only goes to prove that there is no magic feeding schedule like I originally had hoped I'd find. The environment was exactly the same and just the difference of which strain you are growing can dictate how much you feed. I'm learning more on how to read my plants needs and hope to triple my yield from last time. Another couple weeks should give me an idea if I'm on pace.


Your feeding levels shouldn't be burning your plants as I feed a more potent dose to seedlings. I'd also be wary of calling anything an actual deficiency as DG already supplies all the elements. If there is a minor issue like spotting or whatever and it's just on a few leaves, I'd say don't really worry about that as the overall health of the plant is more important. Honestly in my experience, I get spotting when my RO membranes need replaced and with your tap at 144, that's probably what is causing any leaf discoloration. Regardless, don't overthink it. Get the basics down before you try to get too technical.


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## farside05 (Jan 7, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> I'd also be wary of calling anything an actual deficiency as DG already supplies all the elements.


Call it lack of a better word. I know that it's not the nutes because everything they need is supplied. I can just say that it I had discoloration and spotting that looked like a combination of of things (based on photos I've seen diagnosing plant problems, because I had no prior experience to go off of). Therefore there's nothing else to blame but the grower and I accept all responsibility. I'm very analytical and tend to make things more complicated than needed. Paralysis by analysis so to speak. If you think it may be my water, maybe I'll get one of the big jugs at Wal-Mart. The wife would probably kill me if I dropped another $200 on a RO system after everything else I've spent getting up and running. At least I can use the big jug as a carboy if nothing else. I do the home brewing (and distilling) thing too.


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## homebrewer (Jan 7, 2016)

farside05 said:


> Call it lack of a better word. I know that it's not the nutes because everything they need is supplied. I can just say that it I had discoloration and spotting that looked like a combination of of things (based on photos I've seen diagnosing plant problems, because I had no prior experience to go off of). Therefore there's nothing else to blame but the grower and I accept all responsibility. I'm very analytical and tend to make things more complicated than needed. Paralysis by analysis so to speak. If you think it may be my water, maybe I'll get one of the big jugs at Wal-Mart. The wife would probably kill me if I dropped another $200 on a RO system after everything else I've spent getting up and running. At least I can use the big jug as a carboy if nothing else. I do the home brewing (and distilling) thing too.


Buying some better water could be an option but sometimes the fix is as simple as watering more/less frequently with more/less volume. That can take a while to dial in.


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## farside05 (Jan 7, 2016)

Interesting. My last watering a couple days ago I did up the volume significantly from previous and increased to 1/2 tsp of FP per gallon. They did respond favorably and put on about an inch overnight. The Ice Cool maintained its color and the slight yellowness on the Trainwrecks went to a vibrant green. Total noob question...Do different strains have a different color foliage, or should I be shooting for the same color leaves across the board? My Trainwrecks aren't as deep in color as the Ice Cool but look very healthy to me.


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## homebrewer (Jan 7, 2016)

farside05 said:


> Interesting. My last watering a couple days ago I did up the volume significantly from previous and increased to 1/2 tsp of FP per gallon. They did respond favorably and put on about an inch overnight. The Ice Cool maintained its color and the slight yellowness on the Trainwrecks went to a vibrant green. Total noob question...*Do different strains have a different color foliage, or should I be shooting for the same color leaves across the board?* My Trainwrecks aren't as deep in color as the Ice Cool but look very healthy to me.


Plants can be all shades of green and even turn purple at some point. If anything, you're looking for an even color top to bottom, but even then don't beat yourself up if a lower leaf or two drops when the top 90% of the plant looks healthy.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Jan 12, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> Yeah, every day with maybe a little less water. Keep us posted.


I have been consistently feeding her in the 135-150ppm (.5 scale) range and she is doing great, with noticeable growth every day. she is a nice shade of green from top to bottom minus a couple of dried up original fans that have been plucked off. This strain (specifically this pheno) has a beautiful scent during veg, smells like a nice tropical punch. It's a very light scent and does not make you think of weed or skunk at all.

I watered for the first time at a 4 : 1 ratio of FP : ProTekt and it leaves the ph of my water at 5.9-6 which is awesome. I actually took 4 clones and am going to try and squeeze a solo cup promix single cola sog in the corner of my tent. As soon as the clones root, it should be a good time to start flowering.


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## supdro (Jan 13, 2016)

I was debating with a buddy on mj macro nutes NPK. Watched the great phosphorus debate and Foliage Pro is perfect nute by its self in the right ratio which would be a 3-1-3 or 3-1-2. I do fp and protect with promix plants are perfect!!! No more snake oils on my shelf


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## homebrewer (Jan 13, 2016)

supdro said:


> I was debating with a buddy on mj macro nutes NPK. Watched the great phosphorus debate and Foliage Pro is perfect nute by its self in the right ratio which would be a 3-1-3 or 3-1-2. I do fp and protect with promix plants are perfect!!! No more snake oils on my shelf


I think anywhere between 3-1-2 to 3-1-4 is going to be about perfect for our plants in promix/dort/coco. I've been messing with extra potassium for a while now and I'm not seeing a difference in my promix plants.


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## supdro (Jan 13, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> I think anywhere between 3-1-2 to 3-1-4 is going to be about perfect for our plants in promix/dort/coco. I've been messing with extra potassium for a while now and I'm not seeing a difference in my promix plants.


Here is the link. 

http://www.growersunderground.com/the-great-phosphorus-myth-exposed

I see advanced nutes has something to do with this but i like the research behind it. Either way nitrogen is needed throughout the plants life


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## bassman999 (Jan 13, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> I think anywhere between 3-1-2 to 3-1-4 is going to be about perfect for our plants in promix/dort/coco. I've been messing with extra potassium for a while now and I'm not seeing a difference in my promix plants.


I am jumping in out of context, but are you using this ratio for veg, flowering or both?


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## homebrewer (Jan 13, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> I am jumping in out of context, but are you using this ratio for veg, flowering or both?


I use it from start to finish.


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## bassman999 (Jan 13, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> I use it from start to finish.


I remember reading that 1-3-2 was best for flowering, but I cant argue with your results. So much N and that goes against what everyone says about tasting bad with high nitrogen late in flowering and needing crazy flushing.


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## homebrewer (Jan 14, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> I remember reading that 1-3-2 was best for flowering, but I cant argue with your results. So much N and that goes against what everyone says about tasting bad with high nitrogen late in flowering and needing crazy flushing.


1-3-2 works well in hydro. 

As far as a 'bad tasting' product goes, that's all about the dosage regardless of what NPK you feed your plants. And a proper cure of course.


----------



## bassman999 (Jan 14, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> 1-3-2 works well in hydro.
> 
> As far as a 'bad tasting' product goes, that's all about the dosage regardless of what NPK you feed your plants. And a proper cure of course.


So different mediums will excel with different NPK ratios?
Regarding flavor, on one of my first rows I had bud that would crackle sometimes, and had black ash. I remember a friend of mine saying that I didnt flush, and that was the result of too much N left over.
I quit using the GH Koolbloom to solve that, and that made a big difference. It contains almost no N is contrast to PK, but was just too much fertilizer in general I suppose. I had bigger buds (not always), but they sometimes tasted like the nute solution smelled honestly.
No fun smoking bud that smells like fruit and tastes like a vitamin.


----------



## supdro (Jan 14, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> So different mediums will excel with different NPK ratios?
> Regarding flavor, on one of my first rows I had bud that would crackle sometimes, and had black ash. I remember a friend of mine saying that I didnt flush, and that was the result of too much N left over.
> I quit using the GH Koolbloom to solve that, and that made a big difference. It contains almost no N is contrast to PK, but was just too much fertilizer in general I suppose. I had bigger buds (not always), but they sometimes tasted like the nute solution smelled honestly.
> No fun smoking bud that smells like fruit and tastes like a vitamin.


Why do people say there is too much Nitrogen left and tastes like crap or ash black? Do people really get an analysis as to what is left in the bud that may taste like crap or sparkle...folks dont know. Could be too much phosphorus as that will spark when burning


----------



## LamontCranston (Jan 14, 2016)

supdro said:


> Here is the link.
> 
> http://www.growersunderground.com/the-great-phosphorus-myth-exposed
> 
> I see advanced nutes has something to do with this but i like the research behind it. Either way nitrogen is needed throughout the plants life


I've posted this in one other thread before... http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/knowing_nutrient_mobility_is_helpful_in_diagnosing_plant_nutrient_deficienc

These are the roles nutrients play in your crops. Obviously most of them are critical throughout the whole process. However you achieve these results is a matter of individual success. I believe we spend too much time on RIU criticizing others for using certain products. Good luck to all of you, use this info to the best of your abilities. <3

Also growersunderground is an extension of Advanced Nutrient's advertising, so take what you read there with a grain of salt. I know this because when Oregon laws on fertilizer labeling changed a couple years ago, AN used growersunderground as a platform to launch a campaign against these new, vague labeling laws (also because their label is in the top of the website). They wanted more information to become available to customers. Anyways, these are my 2 (or 3) cents. <3


----------



## bassman999 (Jan 14, 2016)

supdro said:


> Why do people say there is too much Nitrogen left and tastes like crap or ash black? Do people really get an analysis as to what is left in the bud that may taste like crap or sparkle...folks dont know. Could be too much phosphorus as that will spark when burning


I was new to growing, and the guy knew more than me or at least I though he did.
I think the high PK from the Koolbloom was rally the issue.
I have the bag still and dont use it, but when I stopped it went away.
Over fert is easy with numbers that high


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## SamsonsRiddle (Jan 15, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> I was new to growing, and the guy knew more than me or at least I though he did.
> I think the high PK from the Koolbloom was rally the issue.
> I have the bag still and dont use it, but when I stopped it went away.
> Over fert is easy with numbers that high


Try and do a test run with the two different NPK's (It's easy, either flower with foliage pro or bloom from dyna) and check out what your plant does. I guarantee 95% of your leaves are yellow by time you finish with bloom, and maybe a few with foliage pro if you cut it back the way you should as you finish up her life. 
We're not growing corn, having a nice healthy green plant at harvest is better than a yellow starving plant.


----------



## Macmac124 (Jan 23, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> I use it from start to finish.


@homebrewer i know you gotta be swamp wit questions but i just hit 4 week of flower and started to cut out nitrogen from my flood table. my question to you is what ppm do you run in your table? and how much of that is grow nutrient and how much of that ppm is bloom nutrients? p.s my plant are almost three feet with 1/2 in stems and are ak x kosher kush


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## posterart (Jan 24, 2016)

Hello RIU`pers I have been following this thread and I had a question . I use a 70 Gallon Rubbermaid res . I sometimes us a bubbler and air pump and sometimes just a aquarium power head to create circulation . I thought I heard Adv. Nutes say NOT to use air stone / bubbler . What effect could a air stone have on nutes ? And without constant circulation ( you merely mix up the tank feeding before feeding ) is that a possible cause for lock out . How do y`all operate your res`s .


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## homebrewer (Jan 26, 2016)

Macmac124 said:


> @homebrewer i know you gotta be swamp wit questions but i just hit 4 week of flower and started to cut out nitrogen from my flood table. my question to you is what ppm do you run in your table? and how much of that is grow nutrient and how much of that ppm is bloom nutrients? p.s my plant are almost three feet with 1/2 in stems and are ak x kosher kush


I wouldn't cut N if I were you as you'll lose all your leaves. 

1.0 EC is plenty strong.


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## supdro (Jan 26, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> I wouldn't cut N if I were you as you'll lose all your leaves.
> 
> 1.0 EC is plenty strong.



To piggyback off of HB i run 1.0ec-1.4 mix of foliage pro and bloom read the plant and your rez. Keep the plant healthy bro. Happy


----------



## Macmac124 (Jan 30, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> I wouldn't cut N if I were you as you'll lose all your leaves.
> 
> 1.0 EC is plenty strong.


You were dead on!! I lost a lot of bottom leaves when I put my rez to 50/50 grow bloom. I now have the rez back to all grow 7-9-5 @ abt .9ec hopefully I didnt mess my yield up. But I am havin a little trouble w my ppms/ec it seems like evryday my ppms go up 10-15 and my ph drops but im kinda scared to run a lower ppm/ec. Is dynagro really that strong or do i have a rez problem? This is my first table ever im a promix organic nute type of guy and im just trying to get closer to that gram per watt. What is your opinion on .9ec is it about right w the the strains you run or is it a little high or a little low? I know I have to dial my own strains in to see what they like but being new to this hydro and dynagro what would you recommend... greatly appreciated


----------



## farside05 (Jan 31, 2016)

supdro said:


> Here is the link.
> 
> http://www.growersunderground.com/the-great-phosphorus-myth-exposed
> 
> I see advanced nutes has something to do with this but i like the research behind it. Either way nitrogen is needed throughout the plants life


OK, I'm not a Botanist by any stretch. Not a pro grower either. I'm only on my 2nd grow, but I am pretty good with numbers. If I take the numbers from the Advanced Nutrition charts/lab results, and if the goal is to feed the plant exactly what it uses in each phase of its life, this is what I come up with. Numbers are rounded to the nearest whole number for simplification. During Veg, the plant uses N-P-K at a ratio of 7-1-5 (average of the 3 strains sampled) and in Bloom it uses N-P-K at 5-1-5 ratio. If you mix Dyna's Foliage Pro at a ratio of 3:1 with Pro-Tekt, you come up with a N-P-K of 7-2-5 (a close match for Veg), and if you use a ratio of 3:2 Folige Pro to Pro-Tekt, you get a N-P-K of 5-2-5 which matches well for Bloom. All of these results also jive extremely well with Homebrewer's suggestion of a 3-1-3 N-P-K ratio for dirt/promix. As a coincidence, the last seed I planted (an auto Critical+) has been fed a 3:1 ratio of Foliage Pro to Pro-Tekt since day 7. Every leaf on her is pristine. She's 42 days old today and 9 days younger than her sisters that were fed a different ratio. She has caught and passed the others. I know she's from seed and not a clone, so you can't compare them directly, but I think there is something to it. Since she's flowering now I may switch her to a 3:2 ratio and see what happens. If I'm missing something, or if I'm calculating incorrectly, feel free to chime in.

Also, Big Mike's video is a laugh. He contradicts all the evidence in front of him. He points out other high phosphorus products that are 0-50-30 and scoffs, but then says his product that is like 0-9-18 is the right ratio. Either way you are overfeeding phosphorous (and potassium), just to what extent. And where is the nitrogen that he says actually increases during bloom? Not in the products he's touting.


----------



## SamsonsRiddle (Jan 31, 2016)

farside05 said:


> OK, I'm not a Botanist by any stretch. Not a pro grower either. I'm only on my 2nd grow, but I am pretty good with numbers. If I take the numbers from the Advanced Nutrition charts/lab results, and if the goal is to feed the plant exactly what it uses in each phase of its life, this is what I come up with. Numbers are rounded to the nearest whole number for simplification. During Veg, the plant uses N-P-K at a ratio of 7-1-5 (average of the 3 strains sampled) and in Bloom it uses N-P-K at 5-1-5 ratio. If you mix Dyna's Foliage Pro at a ratio of 3:1 with Pro-Tekt, you come up with a N-P-K of 7-2-5 (a close match for Veg), and if you use a ratio of 3:2 Folige Pro to Pro-Tekt, you get a N-P-K of 5-2-5 which matches well for Bloom. All of these results also jive extremely well with Homebrewer's suggestion of a 3-1-3 N-P-K ratio for dirt/promix. As a coincidence, the last seed I planted (an auto Critical+) has been fed a 3:1 ratio of Foliage Pro to Pro-Tekt since day 7. Every leaf on her is pristine. She's 42 days old today and 9 days younger than her sisters that were fed a different ratio. She has caught and passed the others. I know she's from seed and not a clone, so you can't compare them directly, but I think there is something to it. Since she's flowering now I may switch her to a 3:2 ratio and see what happens. If I'm missing something, or if I'm calculating incorrectly, feel free to chime in.
> 
> Also, Big Mike's video is a laugh. He contradicts all the evidence in front of him. He points out other high phosphorus products that are 0-50-30 and scoffs, but then says his product that is like 0-9-18 is the right ratio. Either way you are overfeeding phosphorous (and potassium), just to what extent. And where is the nitrogen that he says actually increases during bloom? Not in the products he's touting.
> 
> View attachment 3597689 View attachment 3597690


I was advised against running that much protekt during flower because it will produce leathery leaves. The suggestion i have gathered from his posts state a 4:1 ratio of FP : Pro especially during flower.


----------



## homebrewer (Jan 31, 2016)

Macmac124 said:


> You were dead on!! I lost a lot of bottom leaves when I put my rez to 50/50 grow bloom. I now have the rez back to all grow 7-9-5 @ abt .9ec hopefully I didnt mess my yield up.* But I am havin a little trouble w my ppms/ec it seems like evryday my ppms go up 10-15 and my ph drops but im kinda scared to run a lower ppm/ec.* Is dynagro really that strong or do i have a rez problem? This is my first table ever im a promix organic nute type of guy and im just trying to get closer to that gram per watt. What is your opinion on .9ec is it about right w the the strains you run or is it a little high or a little low? I know I have to dial my own strains in to see what they like but being new to this hydro and dynagro what would you recommend... greatly appreciated


I would think 50/50 should be plenty to keep your leaves green. 

How big is your res? What is your medium?


----------



## Macmac124 (Jan 31, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> I would think 50/50 should be plenty to keep your leaves green.
> 
> How big is your res? What is your medium?


40 gallon with hydroton these are nitrogen whores in promix i give em alaskan emulsion till week 5 with my bloom recipe if not they yellow up


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## homebrewer (Jan 31, 2016)

Macmac124 said:


> 40 gallon with hydroton these are nitrogen whores in promix i give em alaskan emulsion till week 5 with my bloom recipe if not they yellow up


And what kind of water? Tap or RO? Flowering plants shouldn't have an issue with 1.0 EC and unless there is something in your res/medium, the pH should be pretty stable.


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## Macmac124 (Feb 2, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> And what kind of water? Tap or RO? Flowering plants shouldn't have an issue with 1.0 EC and unless there is something in your res/medium, the pH should be pretty stable.


Tap


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## Macmac124 (Feb 2, 2016)

Macmac124 said:


> Tap





homebrewer said:


> And what kind of water? Tap or RO? Flowering plants shouldn't have an issue with 1.0 EC and unless there is something in your res/medium, the pH should be pretty stable.


Tap water 150 ppms


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## homebrewer (Feb 2, 2016)

Macmac124 said:


> Tap water 150 ppms


Your tap water is likely affecting your pH a little and the 150pps aren't helping. It's awful hard to make nutritional tweaks to our plants with the kind of water you're working with.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Feb 7, 2016)

Have you ever had to water promix twice a day? 

I water her within the 1st hour of lights on, about 42 oz's leaves a couple drips in the catch tray. I checked the plant before lights out and it looks like the top of the soil is completely dry. Sure enough, she is starting to look like she did when i wasn't giving her enough water before. So now i have to water her twice a day (i would just put her inside of another larger pot since she is in a fabric pot, but she's scrogged into place) and am not sure how to go about it.

Should i just give her a smaller amount every 12 hours like 30 oz? 
Should i give her the normal 42 oz around lights on and then give her another 16 before lights out?
Is there another way to approach this?

I'm still using the FP with Protekt at 4:1 with 1ml/gallon of Floralicious Plus - Final PPM is between 250-280 (.5 scale) or .5 ec using store bought RO water that is 20ppm(.5 scale). She is in week 4 since flip tomorrow.


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## bassman999 (Feb 7, 2016)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> Have you ever had to water promix twice a day?
> 
> I water her within the 1st hour of lights on, about 42 oz's leaves a couple drips in the catch tray. I checked the plant before lights out and it looks like the top of the soil is completely dry. Sure enough, she is starting to look like she did when i wasn't giving her enough water before. So now i have to water her twice a day (i would just put her inside of another larger pot since she is in a fabric pot, but she's scrogged into place) and am not sure how to go about it.
> 
> ...


I dont know the answer to your dilemma, but this scenario last run led to me over fertilizing from watering so often, and let me deciding to not use fabric pots anymore.


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## homebrewer (Feb 7, 2016)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> Have you ever had to water promix twice a day?
> 
> I water her within the 1st hour of lights on, about 42 oz's leaves a couple drips in the catch tray. I checked the plant before lights out and it looks like the top of the soil is completely dry. Sure enough, she is starting to look like she did when i wasn't giving her enough water before. So now i have to water her twice a day (i would just put her inside of another larger pot since she is in a fabric pot, but she's scrogged into place) and am not sure how to go about it.
> 
> ...


How big are your fabric pots? How big is the plant?


----------



## boshuter (Feb 7, 2016)

homebrewer, got a question for you (or 2), I hope it wasn't answered in the thread but I got a little blurry eyed after 50-60 pages, lol. I've been using Dyan Gro grow and bloom for a few years, like you mentioned earlier, I always mix a little grow in with the bloom to keep things green. I am about out and am thinking about trying to go with just Foilage Pro for the whole grow, what are your thoughts on this compard to mixing the grow/bloom? The other question is about the new, to me anyway, Dyna Gro Mag Pro Blossom? I've never been a believer in bloom boosters, but I don't discount anything without a lot of evidence that it won't work or trying it myself.


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 7, 2016)

boshuter said:


> homebrewer, got a question for you (or 2), I hope it wasn't answered in the thread but I got a little blurry eyed after 50-60 pages, lol. I've been using Dyan Gro grow and bloom for a few years, like you mentioned earlier, I always mix a little grow in with the bloom to keep things green. I am about out and am thinking about trying to go with just Foilage Pro for the whole grow, what are your thoughts on this compard to mixing the grow/bloom? The other question is about the new, to me anyway, Dyna Gro Mag Pro Blossom? I've never been a believer in bloom boosters, but I don't discount anything without a lot of evidence that it won't work or trying it myself.


Hydro or dirt?

Magpro can be used in hydro though I question the benefits. If you're going to try it in hydro, 1ml/gal is plenty.


----------



## boshuter (Feb 7, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> Hydro or dirt?
> 
> Magpro can be used in hydro though I question the benefits. If you're going to try it in hydro, 1ml/gal is plenty.


How about using Foilage Pro the entire grow as opposed to grow/bloom? I'm going to be starting a new 6 plant DWC grow soon with 2 each of 3 strains. I may get a small bottle of the Mag Pro and try it on 1 of each strain just to see if there is a measurable difference. I do hydro BTW.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Feb 7, 2016)

2 gallon fabric pots scrogged at 7-8 inches, taking up a 11"x13" area.

How about some pictures?


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## bassman999 (Feb 7, 2016)

Hi, maybe you can wrap black/white film around outside of pot(s) to slow evaporation, not sure if they are drinking it or evap though...


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## homebrewer (Feb 8, 2016)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> 2 gallon fabric pots scrogged at 7-8 inches, taking up a 11"x13" area.
> 
> How about some pictures?


Fabric pots are going to need watered pretty frequently and the 2 gallon size might be a good size for an automatic watering system like Blumats. Unless you switch away from fabric or increase the size of the fabric container, expect to water often. Heck, I'm in 5 gallon paint buckets and sometimes 3.5 gallons of my promix mix boarders on needing watered 2x day depending on the size of the plant so I can only imagine how quickly fabric dries out. Maybe work on REALLY soaking them when you do water, that might buy you some time. 1/2 gallon or more watered in really slowly?


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## homebrewer (Feb 8, 2016)

boshuter said:


> How about using Foilage Pro the entire grow as opposed to grow/bloom? I'm going to be starting a new 6 plant DWC grow soon with 2 each of 3 strains. I may get a small bottle of the Mag Pro and try it on 1 of each strain just to see if there is a measurable difference. I do hydro BTW.


Don't flower with only foliage pro in hydro, FP in veg is fine though. You can use FP like you do grow with a FP/Bloom split during flower, that works great.


----------



## SamsonsRiddle (Feb 8, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> Fabric pots are going to need watered pretty frequently and the 2 gallon size might be a good size for an automatic watering system like Blumats. Unless you switch away from fabric or increase the size of the fabric container, expect to water often. Heck, I'm in 5 gallon paint buckets and sometimes 3.5 gallons of my promix mix boarders on needing watered 2x day depending on the size of the plant so I can only imagine how quickly fabric dries out. Maybe work on REALLY soaking them when you do water, that might buy you some time. 1/2 gallon or more watered in really slowly?


lol, tha's funny because i spent all last night bookmarking and studying links on Blumats. Thanks for reassuring me that I wasn't doing anything to fucked up for her to be drying out every day - again.

I'm never using fabric pots again after this time, because i love spending time with my plant but i don't want all our time spent with me feeding her ass. I'm probably never going to scrog again either, because it's fucking annoying trying to work on her backside.

What she got yesterday was a little water for breakfast (18oz) and a large lunch (32oz) which held her over until night (she was still damp). Am I going to overwater in ProMix if I water twice a day? I used coco last time and once they were established i HAD to water 3 times a day. I'm not trying to ignore your advice of watering a half gallon and will try that this time, but figured i should ask this.

At least the dyna gro is dialed in - this shit is so awesome. I don't know why people don't just give it a try. I also can't see how people feed such high ppms/ec. I understand people grow much larger plants, but damn. Even at .5 ec i see some tip burning.


----------



## jeeba (Feb 8, 2016)

I use DG after reading this thread. I like it good results. But I can't run it at full strength it burns some of the girls.


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## homebrewer (Feb 8, 2016)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> What she got yesterday was a little water for breakfast (18oz) and a large lunch (32oz) which held her over until night (she was still damp).* Am I going to overwater in ProMix if I water twice a day?* I used coco last time and once they were established i HAD to water 3 times a day. I'm not trying to ignore your advice of watering a half gallon and will try that this time, but figured i should ask this.
> 
> At least the dyna gro is dialed in - this shit is so awesome. I don't know why people don't just give it a try. I also can't see how people feed such high ppms/ec. I understand people grow much larger plants, but damn. Even at .5 ec i see some tip burning.


My hydro plants get flooded 3 times per day. It's not over-watering that's the issue, it's the lack of airflow in the medium that will cause an issue. I think promix is setup to breathe pretty well with the added perlite. I mix in more but you should be fine. If the plants don't like one large watering, it looks like 2 smaller ones is the way to go. I soak my plants sometimes, they don't mind at all as long as they're established in the medium.


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## homebrewer (Feb 8, 2016)

jeeba said:


> I use DG after reading this thread. I like it good results. But I can't run it at full strength it burns some of the girls.


Usually the recommendations on plant food bottles are way too strong.


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## jeeba (Feb 8, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> Usually the recommendations on plant food bottles are way too strong.


Agreed. I run at 1/2 less if adding bloom enhancers or other amendments. It's good stuff i.m.o. how you been homebrewer? You still got the dumpster strain?


----------



## questiondj42 (Feb 8, 2016)

I'm running 5ml/gal of FP in aero. It works out to about 1.1ec. 1.2 after adding protekt, hygrozyme, hydroguard, and kln.


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## homebrewer (Feb 8, 2016)

jeeba said:


> Agreed. I run at 1/2 less if adding bloom enhancers or other amendments. It's good stuff i.m.o. how you been homebrewer? You still got the dumpster strain?


Yep! I'll always have Dumpster in my garden. Have you tried her before?


----------



## questiondj42 (Feb 8, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> Yep! I'll always have Dumpster in my garden. Have you tried her before?


Are there pics of it somewhere? The photos in your Dumpster thread are all dead for me.


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## homebrewer (Feb 8, 2016)

questiondj42 said:


> Are there pics of it somewhere? The photos in your Dumpster thread are all dead for me.


I was hosting those pics at a site that revamped things. My pics were lost in the transition. I'm sure I have some somewhere.


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## jeeba (Feb 9, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> Yep! I'll always have Dumpster in my garden. Have you tried her before?


Not growing it but I have smoked before.


----------



## questiondj42 (Feb 9, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> I was hosting those pics at a site that revamped things. My pics were lost in the transition. I'm sure I have some somewhere.


IT Savages!


----------



## supdro (Feb 15, 2016)

Hey HB wanted to say thank you again you introduced me to dyna back in 2012 and still using it! In your flood tables do you go by Dynagro recirculating schedule? If not what do you change? Keep growing


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## homebrewer (Feb 15, 2016)

supdro said:


> Hey HB wanted to say thank you again you introduced me to dyna back in 2012 and still using it! In your flood tables do you go by Dynagro recirculating schedule? If not what do you change? Keep growing


And Uncle Ben was the reason why I tried DG so I'm glad it's still working well for both of us!

As far as DG's schedule goes, I think it's hot and not a good mix for our plants. I run foliage pro and protekt in veg and then switch to a combo of foliage pro & bloom along with protekt during flower. DG's bloom doesn't contain enough N to keep the plants green so a little FP or Grow is needed along with bloom during flower. I only really use enough FP to keep the plants green and I don't think it takes much. For an advanced schedule, maybe run a little more FP or grow at the beginning of flower as compared to the end. Experiment and takes notes as to what works best.


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## questiondj42 (Feb 15, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> And Uncle Ben was the reason why I tried DG so I'm glad it's still working well for both of us!
> 
> As far as DG's schedule goes, I think it's hot and not a good mix for our plants. I run foliage pro and protekt in veg and then switch to a combo of foliage pro & bloom along with protekt during flower. DG's bloom doesn't contain enough N to keep the plants green so a little FP or Grow is needed along with bloom during flower. I only really use enough FP to keep the plants green and I don't think it takes much. For an advanced schedule, maybe run a little more FP or grow at the beginning of flower as compared to the end. Experiment and takes notes as to what works best.


Are you still using Floralicious Plus during flowering?


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## homebrewer (Feb 15, 2016)

questiondj42 said:


> Are you still using Floralicious Plus during flowering?


Yes, I like that product.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Feb 23, 2016)

Hey homebrewer, i've seen time and time again that you only use the bloom nutrient mixed with whatever other base (Grow or Foliage Pro) at 1:1 ratio for some time later in flowering. as we very well know the bloom is too low in nitrogen for a promix potted plant. 

When do you usually do this ratio on let's say an *8 week strain*? Once at 5 or 6 weeks or 3 times a week or what?

The other question I have is how do you back off the nutes for the last couple o weeks? say you run .575 ec Would you drop it to .3 during week 7 and .01 during week 8? 

I would really appreciate you answering these questions if you have the time.


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## homebrewer (Feb 24, 2016)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> Hey homebrewer, i've seen time and time again that you only use the bloom nutrient mixed with whatever other base (Grow or Foliage Pro) at 1:1 ratio for some time later in flowering. as we very well know the bloom is too low in nitrogen for a promix potted plant.
> 
> When do you usually do this ratio on let's say an *8 week strain*? Once at 5 or 6 weeks or 3 times a week or what?
> 
> ...



I don't use a 1:1 ratio, not even in hydro. That would be too much foliage pro for hydro flowering in my opinion. If you're in promix, FP from start to finish is best. 

In regards to lowering nutes towards harvest, just meet the plant's nutritional needs at all times. Maybe lighten your mix up by 30-50% in the last few waterings. It's a waste of food to feed 'full strength' at the end.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Mar 4, 2016)

Hey, homebrewer, i have read you use a 4:1 ratio of Grow(Or Foliage Pro) to Protekt during flower. Say i didn't know what that meant, but understood the math of what a 4:1 ratio is. How would one figure out what a 4:1 ratio of said products would be? To clarify better, would you go by the volume of 4:1 or by the ppm/ec contribution to the water at a 4:1 ratio?

Using ppm contributions from an Incredible Results: Dyna Gro recipe thread from another website (there is no conversion listed so we will go with the numbers as if they are a universal common):
Grow and Bloom - Every 5ml adds 350 ppm to a gallon of water
Protekt - Every 5ml adds 160 ppm to a gallon of water


Would i need to do my 4:1 ratio based on ppms or on the amount of ml's?

4ml grow to 1ml protekt
which would be 
280ppm grow to 32ppm protekt

or

4ml grow to approximately 2ml protekt
which would be
280ppm grow to 70ppm protekt


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## GOLDBERG71 (Mar 4, 2016)

4ml grow to 1ml protekt
which would be
280ppm grow to 32pp

This 4 to 1. I don't check my PPM per "part" but I think 2.5 ml protekt per gallon which is what I use and close to 32PPM at least on the 500 scale.

Are you starting at ZERO PPM with RO water? Because the more I look at your PPM they both look wrong to me. I use 2.5 ml protekt and 3 ml of grow per gallon at full strength and is going to be between 280-300 PPM. I use a 32 gallon trash can and guess where 30 gallons is or Id be more specific.


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## homebrewer (Mar 4, 2016)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> Hey, homebrewer, i have read you use a 4:1 ratio of Grow(Or Foliage Pro) to Protekt during flower. Say i didn't know what that meant, but understood the math of what a 4:1 ratio is. How would one figure out what a 4:1 ratio of said products would be? To clarify better, would you go by the volume of 4:1 or by the ppm/ec contribution to the water at a 4:1 ratio?
> 
> Using ppm contributions from an Incredible Results: Dyna Gro recipe thread from another website (there is no conversion listed so we will go with the numbers as if they are a universal common):
> Grow and Bloom - Every 5ml adds 350 ppm to a gallon of water
> ...


4:1 was for foliage pro and it was just a ratio that put the pH in the right range. These days I don't even bother with that ratio because promix seems to buffer the pH. FWIW, I use 1/2 ml of protekt as I think silica can be overused.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Mar 12, 2016)

Do you remember the plant that you helped me nurse back to health? It looked like complete shit a few pages back (first time in promix is my excuse). Well, I'm happy to say that scraggly ass little girl has completed her cycle and even left a few clones to go through the next round. She was grown with Foliage Pro, Pro Tekt, and Floralicious Plus (during flower) in RO water. Never added calmag - she didn't need any.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the GOOD knowledge that you have made freely available.


Here she is, Female Seeds C99 at day 51:


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## chuck estevez (Mar 12, 2016)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> Do you remember the plant that you helped me nurse back to health? It looked like complete shit a few pages back (first time in promix is my excuse). Well, I'm happy to say that scraggly ass little girl has completed her cycle and even left a few clones to go through the next round. She was grown with Foliage Pro, Pro Tekt, and Floralicious Plus (during flower) in RO water. Never added calmag - she didn't need any.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the GOOD knowledge that you have made freely available.
> 
> ...


Hey, those look great, but I got a question because I feel the cal/mag remark was a jab at me. BUT, didn't you originally use DISTILLED water? and then switched it to R/O this time? because that would explain why you didn't need cal/mag supplements.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Mar 12, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> well, I know HB is the pro here, But I have seen this a million times. when you use r/o or distilled water and don't replaced the lost cal/mag, you get that look to your plant. Upping your feed should up your cal/mag too, Just not sure if it will be enough to fix your issue.


^ According to above it shouldn't matter either way which i used. However, I switched back and forth based on what was available at the store. I would say I used their RO water about 80% of the time.

I mentioned that because it became a point of conflict during this grow, not as a jab at anyone - just information for anyone who planned on doing something similar. Trying to save people some money and narrow down their headaches.


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## questiondj42 (Mar 12, 2016)

Foliage Pro contains magnesium and calcium.


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## homebrewer (Mar 13, 2016)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> Do you remember the plant that you helped me nurse back to health? It looked like complete shit a few pages back (first time in promix is my excuse). Well, I'm happy to say that scraggly ass little girl has completed her cycle and even left a few clones to go through the next round. She was grown with Foliage Pro, Pro Tekt, and Floralicious Plus (during flower) in RO water. Never added calmag - she didn't need any.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the GOOD knowledge that you have made freely available.


Those are looking really nice. Well done!


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## Snprhed (Mar 14, 2016)

Homebrewer, Im new to growing and this site. Really enjoyed reading this comparison. I was hoping for some guidance with a coco grow. I did GH on my first grow, but I dont care for there parent company so I started looking around. I love the simplicity of the dynagro system. So I was hoping you could help me out with how much of each per gallon for both veg and flower. I have the grow, flower and protekt. I also have calmag, and botanicare hydroguard


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## homebrewer (Mar 14, 2016)

Snprhed said:


> Homebrewer, Im new to growing and this site. Really enjoyed reading this comparison. I was hoping for some guidance with a coco grow. I did GH on my first grow, but I dont care for there parent company so I started looking around. I love the simplicity of the dynagro system. So I was hoping you could help me out with how much of each per gallon for both veg and flower. I have the grow, flower and protekt. I also have calmag, and botanicare hydroguard


Grow and protekt is all that you need from start to finish. Start with their recommended dose and tweak from there. I think it's 1/2 tsp/gal.


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## Snprhed (Mar 15, 2016)

do you have any good advice on training/shaping for best output. There seems to be lots of info out there on topping/mainlining/sog/lst etc. Or if you have a good article that you think explains it well it would be much appreciated

(I understand sog, and scrog, not interested in those techniques. More the training that gives you a good shape for decent production)


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## homebrewer (Mar 15, 2016)

Snprhed said:


> do you have any good advice on training/shaping for best output. There seems to be lots of info out there on topping/mainlining/sog/lst etc. Or if you have a good article that you think explains it well it would be much appreciated
> 
> (I understand sog, and scrog, not interested in those techniques. More the training that gives you a good shape for decent production)


I like to pinch, bend, and top plants to create a canopy with several main growth shoots. I also trim up the spindly bottom branches. Basically I'm trying to grow plants that look like ice cream cones.


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## questiondj42 (Mar 15, 2016)

Snprhed said:


> do you have any good advice on training/shaping for best output. There seems to be lots of info out there on topping/mainlining/sog/lst etc. Or if you have a good article that you think explains it well it would be much appreciated
> 
> (I understand sog, and scrog, not interested in those techniques. More the training that gives you a good shape for decent production)


Get some Thai basil. It grows quickly and respond readily to all pruning techniques. Practice with those, then you'll know exactly how each technique translates in the plant.


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## Snprhed (Mar 16, 2016)

I am kinda using a modified mainlining concept. I let the plant get to about 7-8 inches tall then top. I take the 2 bigger upper branches and pull them out and down with padded wire so light can get to the 2 lower branches. I end up with an x/cross shape which should end up with 4 primary colas.

I will probably clean up the bottom right before going into flowering.

I generally have a green thumb, and this approach seems to make sense to me. It seems like shaping is really important to the final output, yet many more focus on the nutrients looking for some golden juice that will double production, or not make them a crappy grower


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## SamsonsRiddle (Mar 16, 2016)

Snprhed said:


> I am kinda using a modified mainlining concept. I let the plant get to about 7-8 inches tall then top. I take the 2 bigger upper branches and pull them out and down with padded wire so light can get to the 2 lower branches. I end up with an x/cross shape which should end up with 4 primary colas.
> 
> I will probably clean up the bottom right before going into flowering.
> 
> I generally have a green thumb, and this approach seems to make sense to me. It seems like shaping is really important to the final output, yet many more focus on the nutrients looking for some golden juice that will double production, or not make them a crappy grower


Sounds like you have training down, but you may want to get some kind of sea kelp product if you are still growing in coco. it is actually a golden juice (the color of floralicious plus), but i was taught and believe it helps with smell and flavor after my last run with it.


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## Snprhed (Mar 16, 2016)

What sea kelp is the consensus best?


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## SamsonsRiddle (Mar 16, 2016)

Snprhed said:


> What sea kelp is the consensus best?


floralicious plus is all i have experience with (i don't count superthrive since i only use it for cloning). Just give it 1ml/gallon all through the flowering process. 


Ingredients: Vegetable protein hydrolysate and potassium sulphate.

Also contains non-plant food ingredients:
2% *Humic acids *derived from micronized leonardite.
20% *Sea kelp* derived from _Ascophyllum nodosum_.


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## Snprhed (Mar 16, 2016)

could I alternate dynagro and protekt one watering

and hydroguard and floralicious the next?


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## kytaez (Mar 17, 2016)

Great and very informative HB! 

New on this forum and looking for advice. 
Recently I switched from HID to LED lights and noticed the plants suffering from too much Nitrogen comparing to when under HID. 
I grow in NFT and kept the same nutrient profile for many years with great results. All I did change is the lights. Seems like I need low N nutrient scheme now. 
Decided to go with DG bloom and Protekt. 
Plan is to keep EC 1.0-1.2 and see if that will make a difference. I'll report back to you, hopefully with pictures.
Cheers!


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## homebrewer (Mar 17, 2016)

kytaez said:


> Great and very informative HB!
> 
> New on this forum and looking for advice.
> Recently I switched from HID to LED lights and noticed the plants suffering from too much Nitrogen comparing to when under HID.
> ...


Interesting. Keep us posted.


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## Theophilus (Mar 19, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> Fabric pots are going to need watered pretty frequently and the 2 gallon size might be a good size for an automatic watering system like Blumats. Unless you switch away from fabric or increase the size of the fabric container, expect to water often. Heck, I'm in 5 gallon paint buckets and sometimes 3.5 gallons of my promix mix boarders on needing watered 2x day depending on the size of the plant so I can only imagine how quickly fabric dries out. Maybe work on REALLY soaking them when you do water, that might buy you some time. 1/2 gallon or more watered in really slowly?


I have personally settled on 3 gallon fabric pots with Pro-mix HP. I find there to be adequate amounts of perlite in the HP (hence the name, High Perosity) so I only add vermiculite to the mix. I find that need to water every other day or it will be disastrous, lol... I also make one pass with my watering wand at about 4 to 5 seconds each and then go back around after they have had a chance to fully absorb the water. I have followed you (HB) to a T and have never had better results. I also manage a Hydro shop and have passed this knowledge to others who are open minded enough to give it a try and I get nothing but stellar reviews in response. So thank you. The meds I now produce are truly top shelf and it's rediculousy simple and CHEAP. Maybe I can post some pics up soon, By the way, are you (HB) on Instagram by any chance?


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## homebrewer (Mar 19, 2016)

Theophilus said:


> I have personally settled on 3 gallon fabric pots with Pro-mix HP. I find there to be adequate amounts of perlite in the HP (hence the name, High Perosity) so I only add vermiculite to the mix. I find that need to water every other day or it will be disastrous, lol... I also make one pass with my watering wand at about 4 to 5 seconds each and then go back around after they have had a chance to fully absorb the water. I have followed you (HB) to a T and have never had better results. I also manage a Hydro shop and have passed this knowledge to others who are open minded enough to give it a try and I get nothing but stellar reviews in response. So thank you. The meds I now produce are truly top shelf and it's rediculousy simple and CHEAP. Maybe I can post some pics up soon, *By the way, are you (HB) on Instagram by any chance?*



Thanks! I'm glad some things are working for you over there. 

Nope. No social media for me.


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## FruitPunch (Mar 24, 2016)

Read 30 pages and feel like it was a waste of time.... The comparison wasn't fair at all if your using dg with protek you should be using an con with rhino skin potassium silicate does a big difference in yield and end product and to say dg yield was greater then an con is clearly dependent on the grower and not on the nutrients.... I've grown with a few different brands and yield was never affected, the trichomes production, the high and the taste were the most affected... only thing else noticeable was the ability of a product compared to another in keeping the plant green and happy. An con does this better then DG. I use to love AN in my rookie days and to be honest it was the easiest product to use and rarely did any deficiencies ever show up with my plants. I also grew AK with it the final product was fantastic. Ofcourse I didnt burn my plants and kept ppm levels between 800 and 1000.


Truth is most nutrients will do a great job hence why people feel GH is all they need some feel AN works great for them and some feel that DG or HG works just as good as the most popular ones.... Everyone who does a comparison will have different results and say one yield more then the other so this only means that it depends on the grower and how each cycle went, if you burned the plants a lil bit will effect final results. if you fed to high it will affect results if you fed too low also. just the clones you use will fluctuate yield results in a great way.

Alot of people fail to realize that nutrients count for 1/10th when it comes to yield and product quality. Your lighting is the most important factor on yield. Your temperature and humidity levels have a greater impact on your yield also. I've grown plants on my deck in promix and never gaved them nutrients.... they came out as good as plants that were fed nutrients but yielded much more in 4 months then a indoor grow with 2 months veg and 2 months flower. reason is simple light not nutrients....c02 in higher amounts.

The last thing you should worry about is nutrients. When selecting your base nutrients keep it simple. Whats available to you at your closest hydroponic store, Which one will last you longer for the price you pay.. Then look online at peoples plants growing with those nutrients and notice who is having the lease problem, (new growers journals are the best threads to look at) if someone doesnt know what they really doing and its working for them then its pretty stable nutrient....

The only nutrients worth testing and comparing are the nutrients that manipulate your plants, like protek for example will increase your stalk size and make your plant stronger and alot more. thats why i am concerned if the an connoisseur got any protek or rhino skin cause that will make a huge difference in uptake and all... so trying botanicare silica blast or rhino skin should show you which one make your stalk bigger and stronger etc..... Another good nutrient that one shouldnt go without is root exelurator or voodoo juice... comparing which one grows more roots faster would be beneficial. The last nutrient I will add to my recipe is terp enhancers. It helps bring out the aroma in your strains. Comparing terpinator , floralicious and bud candy bud factorx combo will also be beneficial even using them all at the same time will show you if its worth it or not.

I no longer use bloom boosters even though I know they work I notice they all make your plants take longer to finish and more often your plants start foxtailing, they also ruin the taste of your crop even after heavy flushing it just wont taste the same using some bloom boosters. I now only use base nutrients (house and garden aqua a&b) potassium silicate(botanicare silica blast) root enhancers (house and garden root exelurator) terp enhancers (terpinator). I only use products that my senses can detect... visual, smell, taste

Anyways, who grows for themselves and focus on yield, I guess rookies but what they should really focus on is a clean tasty frosty quality end product that burns white ashes and taste like heaven with a clean high. Thru reading this thread I noticed homebrew said he feed is plant til 3-5 days before the end of the cycle. I do not recommend this at all. I start flushing at end of week 7 for 9 full weeks strains (day 50 to day 65). I start flushing at end of week 5 for 7 full weeks strains (day 35 to day 49) . I never feed over 1000pm thru the whole cycle. I feed 600ppm in veg, 800 ppm first 3 weeks of flower, 1000ppm 3 next weeks of flower and start to flush. During flush I change my reservoir every 3 days to keep the water clean. Growing is not complicated theres just so much misleading information out there and so many products to choose from and a whole bunch of know it alls that only time and experience on your own will get you where you want to be....


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## homebrewer (Mar 24, 2016)

That has to be the record for the longest first post in forum history. Congrats and thanks for swinging by!

I'll address a few things for shits and gigs:



FruitPunch said:


> Read 30 pages and feel like it was a waste of time.... The comparison wasn't fair at all* if your using dg with protek you should be using an con with rhino skin potassium silicate *does a big difference in yield and end product and to say dg yield was greater then an con is clearly dependent on the grower and not on the nutrients....


They're the same product only DG's Protekt is way more concentrated. And the only way to truly be fair is to keep Protket a constant which is what I did in this grow. 



> *I've grown with a few different brands and yield was never affected,* the trichomes production, the high and the taste were the most affected... only thing else noticeable was the ability of a product compared to another in keeping the plant green and happy. An con does this better then DG. I use to love AN in my rookie days and to be honest it was the easiest product to use and rarely did any deficiencies ever show up with my plants. I also grew AK with it the final product was fantastic. Ofcourse I didnt burn my plants and kept ppm levels between 800 and 1000.


Did you journal these grows like I have? Please post a link. 

Unless these different brand all have the EXACT mineral content then your yields _will_ be affected. 



> *Alot of people fail to realize that nutrients count for 1/10th when it comes to yield and product quality. *Your lighting is the most important factor on yield. Your temperature and humidity levels have a greater impact on your yield also. I've grown plants on my deck in promix and never gaved them nutrients.... they came out as good as plants that were fed nutrients but yielded much more in 4 months then a indoor grow with 2 months veg and 2 months flower. reason is simple light not nutrients....c02 in higher amounts.


You're talking about environmental things which have been dialed in here for a decade. These tests were all conducted in the same environment as to eliminate variables. 



> *The last thing you should worry about is nutrients*. When selecting your base nutrients keep it simple. Whats available to you at your closest hydroponic store, Which one will last you longer for the price you pay.. Then look online at peoples plants growing with those nutrients and notice who is having the lease problem, (new growers journals are the best threads to look at) if someone doesnt know what they really doing and its working for them then its pretty stable nutrient....


This is where you're wrong. All NPKs are not created equal. If you don't understand this then I'd suggest reading up on the topic.



> Anyways, who grows for themselves and focus on yield, I guess rookies but what they should really focus on is a clean tasty frosty quality end product that burns white ashes and taste like heaven with a clean high. Thru reading this thread I noticed homebrew said he feed is plant til 3-5 days before the end of the cycle. I do not recommend this at all. *I start flushing at end of week 7 for 9 full weeks strains* (day 50 to day 65). I start flushing at end of week 5 for 7 full weeks strains (day 35 to day 49) . I never feed over 1000pm thru the whole cycle. I feed 600ppm in veg, 800 ppm first 3 weeks of flower, 1000ppm 3 next weeks of flower and start to flush. During flush I change my reservoir every 3 days to keep the water clean. Growing is not complicated theres just so much misleading information out there and so many products to choose from and a whole bunch of know it alls that only time and experience on your own will get you where you want to be....


You cannot flush your plants, only your medium.


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## FruitPunch (Mar 24, 2016)

> That has to be the record for the longest first post in forum history. Congrats and thanks for swinging by!


After reading 30 pages its gonna be a long sump up lol!.... i noticed im not the only one who posted here for there first time this thread as the power to do that with so much misleading information. But anyhow ive been here before my name was quebecgold I just cant login anymore...



> I'll address a few things for shits and gigs:
> 
> 
> 
> They're the same product only DG's Protekt is way more concentrated. And the only way to truly be fair is to keep Protket a constant which is what I did in this grow.


I dont believe they are the same product.... just putting it in your solution will show you different ppm and ph readings.... Haven't done it yet but would gladly try it out...



> Did you journal these grows like I have? Please post a link.


Man ive only made one journal in my life and it was in 2006 when I first started growing mostly AN products when I was worried about yield... now I think less is more.... maybe some good info in there i dont remember much it was 10 years ago. http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5789

Im actually planning a cycle where I will use only a&b + potassium silicate on one tray and then use a&b + many additives but no bloom boosters. I will make a journal of it.... Next cycle will be a journal to see which potassium silicate works better. and last one will be a cycle to see which terp enhancer works better or if they work better used all together. I know terpinaor works after I use it in veg my plants stank the next day no smell was detected before that stem rub gave a fruity aroma it didnt have the day before the strain is the screme cut.



> Unless these different brand all have the EXACT mineral content then your yields _will_ be affected.


I dont believe that.... if u want more yield get more light and add c02! that i believe.... buying a different brand of nuts to expect larger yield is for giggles! anyone who knows anything for real will tell you thats non sense... nutrients are to keep your plants healthy not for larger yield but clearly if they are in good heath they will yield good.



> You're talking about environmental things which have been dialed in here for a decade. These tests were all conducted in the same environment as to eliminate variables.


doesnt change the fact that yield could of been less because of clones thats a variable you cant control... i never had a clone yield the same in the same media drinking from the same reservoir under the same light inside a 2sq feet radius.



> This is where you're wrong. All NPKs are not created equal. If you don't understand this then I'd suggest reading up on the topic.


I dont really care for npk it can have the same npk and show you different visual results that you can clearly notice.... I believe the product that grows the biggest healthy leafs will grow the biggest healthy buds..... i see so many products with the same npk that show large amounts of differences in results....



> You cannot flush your plants, only your medium.


my plants are flushed and the reason I say that is because once they consume all the nutrients stored they start yellowing.... but anyhow im french so im not gonna argue with you but u know what i mean.

But anyhow ain't no point to argue about nutrients when it barely as any effect on yield... its the least important factor when it comes to yield.... 

I just couldnt believe you blamed the nutrients for having fluffy buds at the bottom.... clearly those buds didnt get light cause even without nutrients they would have tight buds if they were getting light.... things like that make you doubt the integrity of the comparison.... i read all this to end up realizing you forcing yourself to think DG is a better product.... i think the only thing better about it is the price to be honest.... which is a good thing u totally right for saying ull stick with dg over an but the comparison lacks realness....


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## GuyLeDuche (Mar 25, 2016)

FruitPunch said:


> my plants are flushed and the reason I say that is because once they consume all the nutrients stored they start yellowing


This thinking really confuses me. Last I heard, a plant needs 16 different nutes. How many nutes are stored in your leaves? Mine have none lol


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## homebrewer (Mar 25, 2016)

I don't mean to be a dick here but this is going to be my last response to you as it's not my job to catch you up to speed. You have some stuff to learn and perhaps this thread was too much too soon for you?



FruitPunch said:


> I dont believe they are the same product.... just putting it in your solution will show you different ppm and ph readings.... Haven't done it yet but would gladly try it out...


Potassium silicate is potassium silicate. Compare the labels. 



> I dont believe that.... if u want more yield get more light and add c02! that i believe.... *buying a different brand of nuts to expect larger yield is for giggles!* anyone who knows anything for real will tell you thats non sense... nutrients are to keep your plants healthy not for larger yield but clearly if they are in good heath they will yield good.


Do you think a 9-3-6 plant food is going to perform the same at a 3-9-6 in hydro? Those two NPKs will grow plants vastly different from one another and the subsequent yields will be different too (I would know, I've done the tests). Sure, adding more light will help yields but the emphasis here is OPTIMAL nutrition for yield and quality with all things being equal. 



> doesnt change the fact that yield could of been less because of clones thats a variable you cant control...* i never had a clone yield the same in the same media drinking from the same reservoir under the same light inside a 2sq feet radius.*


The difference between you and a seasoned veteran is that clearly you're not consistent in your process. 



> *But anyhow ain't no point to argue about nutrients when it barely as any effect on yield..*. its the least important factor when it comes to yield....


The mineral profile that you feed your plants can have a profound effect on yields. You said in your post above that you're not at all consistent in your results so it is not a surprise to me that you can't tell the difference between plant foods. That's the difference between you and me, I'm consistent. 



> I just couldnt believe you blamed the nutrients for having fluffy buds at the bottom.... clearly those buds didnt get light cause even without nutrients they would have tight buds if they were getting light.... things like that make you doubt the integrity of the comparison.... i read all this to end up realizing you forcing yourself to think DG is a better product.... i think the only thing better about it is the price to be honest.... which is a good thing u totally right for saying ull stick with dg over an but the comparison lacks realness....


DG in this comparison was more concentrated, pH stable, more economical, easier to use, and it was also a better performer. I'd ask you to run a similar comparison but it sounds like you need to be more consistent in your results before you run off comparing products.


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## ozric420 (Mar 25, 2016)

AN is for people that have more money to spend and don't mind using a bunch of additives to get a complete NPK. If that's even possible with out breaking your wallet. I at one time was one of those people, Since following HB , I've seen the light at the end of the AN tunnel...I switched to DG ....1 bottle of Grow, 1 bottle of Bloom and protect. ....very easy to use, and I get great results , plus I spend a third of the time mixing and I believe plant genetics play a large part in yield . I'm not bashing anyone who uses AN, I just don't ride that train anymore, and I feel good about it....Thanks HB for your insight and all you have taught me....


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## Resinhound (Mar 25, 2016)

@homebrewer just wanted to say thank you,ive been following your work and have learned alot about proper plant nutrition from your posts.I too am seeing the same things you are seeing with dynagro,simple and solid nutrition sans marketing mumbo jumbo or exploitative pricing schemes.

I had a quart of protekt once precipitate on me and I called dynagro and they sent me a replacement free of charge.


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## FruitPunch (Mar 25, 2016)

> I don't mean to be a dick here but this is going to be my last response to you as it's not my job to catch you up to speed. You have some stuff to learn and perhaps this thread was too much too soon for you?


Dont worry you can be yourself all you want it wont bother me. I think if I was a rookie I would listen to your misleading information. I feel blessed to be one of those who are ahead of this thread so I can tell the truth from the bullshit. Theres alot of truth in what you say but alot of tunnel vision also.



> Potassium silicate is potassium silicate. Compare the labels.


Yeah comparing labels shows me that there are different % strenght, some add K some add sodium, some transform into a cloud creating lockout some create salt build up some make your stalk bigger then the other... potassium silicate is potassium silicate but doesnt mean its the same formula in each bottle like it doesnt mean the most expensive one is better or the less expensive one is better.



> Do you think a 9-3-6 plant food is going to perform the same at a 3-9-6 in hydro? Those two NPKs will grow plants vastly different from one another and the subsequent yields will be different too (I would know, I've done the tests). Sure, adding more light will help yields but the emphasis here is OPTIMAL nutrition for yield and quality with all things being equal.


I think every formula is different and even with the same formula each clone will grow different because not one clone will have the same yield and as long as all the essential elements are there in a balanced ratio, the plant will uptake what it needs and not what you decide is the right npk for them is... so your clones that grew the most roots will perform better then the clones who have less root mass so the uptake on each clone will be dependent of root mass not your ownn or bottled npk value. All you had to do for your DG vs AN to be legit is tell us the highest yielding plant in each grow, this would have much more accuracy then total yield best performing DG clone vs best performing AN clone....



> The difference between you and a seasoned veteran is that clearly you're not consistent in your process.


Find me one person that can take exact cuttings and have the root growth synchronized and grow the same amount of roots in veg and have them all at the exact same height. As close as you can get to that it will never be all the same very close yes the same never.... I think your process is not consistent because you fail to take a close look at your variables



> The mineral profile that you feed your plants can have a profound effect on yields. You said in your post above that you're not at all consistent in your results so it is not a surprise to me that you can't tell the difference between plant foods. That's the difference between you and me, I'm consistent.


No im not consistent because theres always room for improvement so im always improving. Every cycle to me is a chance to R&D, don't make me show you my setup you will see how consistent I am. I'm so consistent that I look at all the variables. Like I said nutrients dont count for much but keeping your plant healthy and the one that keeps it the healthiest will yield more obviously. Yield is light medium and c02. If I got those dialed better then you I will always yield more even if your nutrient as a better nutrient profile. Ain't none wrong if DG works for you but you put to much emphasize on nutrient telling rookies change your nutrient you will yield more is misleading.



> DG in this comparison was more concentrated, pH stable, more economical, easier to use, and it was also a better performer. I'd ask you to run a similar comparison but it sounds like you need to be more consistent in your results before you run off comparing products.


I can understand that. But telling people lower buds were fluffy because of nutrients is very ignorant especially from a self claimed veteran like you. I will run a similar comparison to validate your research it would actually be a good thing if someone did. After this cycle I promise to do it. I'm interested to see what the results will be.

I'm in no way trying to bash what you have accomplished I just hoped you was more considerate of variable and more consistent. I feel like you thru the shittiest clones to your an table and put all the nicer more robust clones in the dynagro tray. I will make sure to spread them equally and I will only care about the highest yielding clone and not total yield.


----------



## FruitPunch (Mar 25, 2016)

GuyLeDuche said:


> This thinking really confuses me. Last I heard, a plant needs 16 different nutes. How many nutes are stored in your leaves? Mine have none lol


FYI theres nutrients stored in your leafs, for example when you take a clone it will absorb all the nutrients in the leafs when theres no more it will then try to grow roots. Hope your not confused anymore or I can go in more details....


----------



## Resinhound (Mar 25, 2016)

FruitPunch said:


> the plant will uptake what it needs and not what you decide is the right npk for them is.


This is patently false.This is kinda why nutrient toxicites exsist.

Numerous studies have proven most fruiting plants will continue to uptake things like potassium,even if there isnt a need,for example.Talk to commercial fruit growers about that.

The idea that you can just feed your plant whatever,and it will just uptake what it needs is pretty ridiculous.A balanced NPK is important,to prevent lockouts and toxicities.

You come here talking shit to a well respected member here and you bring nothing but nonsence and opinions. 

Unfortunately,this one sentence pretty much invalidates anything else you have to say on the matter.


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## FruitPunch (Mar 25, 2016)

Resinhound said:


> This is patently false.This is kinda why nutrient toxicites exsist.
> 
> Numerous studies have proven most fruiting plants will continue to uptake things like potassium,even if there isnt a need,for example.Talk to commercial fruit growers about that.
> 
> ...


Im pretty sure i said a balanced npk ratio in my previous post and im speaking in general plants dont uptake everything even if they dont need it ofcourse somethings they will keep grasping but not everything... in general they take what they need.... stop being all scientific you'll get lost just like them...

Btw aint no point for me talk shit, just want the right info out there.


----------



## Resinhound (Mar 25, 2016)

FruitPunch said:


> Im pretty sure i said a balanced npk ratio in my previous post and im speaking in general plants dont uptake everything even if they dont need it ofcourse somethings they will keep grasping but not everything... in general they take what they need.... stop being all scientific you'll get lost just like them...


Ya that darn science its so obfuscated and shady...cant ever trust that shifty science.

You are right that nutrition is only a piece of the pie to grow a healthy plant.But your knowledge of basic botany is clearly lacking.You make some good points,its just a shame the basic knowledge underneath all the bullshit, just isnt there.


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## posterart (Mar 26, 2016)

Wow ! Great pissing match ! I know people follow this thread as a imperical study ... sometimes on forums , I wonder if folks like Guy LeDouche are just a ficticious facade , whose only point is to throw rocks at a hornets nest . That being said ... we are following this thread to learn . People having different opinions and methods is totally cool , let`s just not disparage other`s if their methods don`t match you own paradigm .


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## GuyLeDuche (Mar 26, 2016)

FruitPunch said:


> FYI theres nutrients stored in your leafs, for example when you take a clone it will absorb all the nutrients in the leafs when theres no more it will then try to grow roots. Hope your not confused anymore or I can go in more details....



FYI, your plant's leaves store nutrients like your arms store cheeseburgers lol. The roots convert the nutes into stuff the plant can actually use, you won't find stores of Mag, Cal, or any other mineral in the leaves. Do some basic book learnin'...

But what do I know, I'm just a "ficticious façade" lol. If anyone actually read the "Truth about Flushing" link they would see much smarter folk explaining it much better, but the fact remains. Leaves don't store minerals...this is not a troll....

Edit: and @posterart if you must insult me, please try to spell my name right, it's just common courtesy


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## posterart (Mar 26, 2016)

Monsieur LeDuche , Sorry I spelled your name wrong . I said other people having different opinions was cool . I wasn`t trying to insult you . You just seem to be contradictory to what this thread is about . Maybe you should start your own thread and see if anyone is interested to follow it .


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## GuyLeDuche (Mar 26, 2016)

posterart said:


> Monsieur LeDuche , Sorry I spelled your name wrong . I said other people having different opinions was cool . I wasn`t trying to insult you . You just seem to be contradictory to what this thread is about . Maybe you should start your own thread and see if anyone is interested to follow it .



Fair point, just because someone said something I know to be untrue doesn't mean I have to make an issue of it. People are allowed to be wrong lol.

As far as not trying to insult me, I'm not so sure....



posterart said:


> sometimes on forums , I wonder if folks like Guy LeDouche are just a ficticious facade , whose only point is to throw rocks at a hornets nest .


 Not exactly a compliment.... But no hard feelings and I apologize for slightly derailing, as I follow this thread to learn about the original topic


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## posterart (Mar 26, 2016)

Guy , Appreciate it . We are here to learn . Regards


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## SamsonsRiddle (May 8, 2016)

homebrewer - you can actually run a small blumat system with a light amount of nutes into promix. How many years ago did you find this out? lol
Dyna Gro Foliage Pro
"" Protekt

I need more money so i can get some actual space to do this shit. sucks being broke... 

this is what she looks like before she starts her day.


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## homebrewer (May 9, 2016)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> homebrewer - you can actually run a small blumat system with a light amount of nutes into promix. How many years ago did you find this out? lol
> Dyna Gro Foliage Pro
> "" Protekt
> 
> ...




Lookin' frosty!


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## Mad Mardigan (May 18, 2016)

Good day HomeBrewer!
Hope all is well.
It would appear that I have read all of your wonderful threads.
Do you have any other threads that you would consider a must read?
I currently run soil but I am in the process of transitioning over to RWDC.
I run a 1200w LED and read that it will cause plants to become cal/mag deficient, I have not seen it in soil but was wondering if you have heard or witnessed it in hydro.
I do run the Dyna-Gro nutrients and that is how I found your tests.
I run RO
My question is
In your never ending quest for perfection, what nutrients are you running now in hydro.
Foliage Pro in veg with a dash of protekt?
Combination of grow and bloom for flower?
Or are you running grow all the way through.
Just curious as I have my own ideas but I also value your opinion.

Thank you in advance
MM


----------



## homebrewer (May 18, 2016)

Mad Mardigan said:


> My question is
> In your never ending quest for perfection, what nutrients are you running now in hydro.
> Foliage Pro in veg with a dash of protekt?
> Combination of grow and bloom for flower?
> ...


In hydro, I like foliage pro and protekt in veg and combos of foliage pro and bloom during flower (I use protekt during flower too). You only need enough FP (or grow) during flower to keep the plants green. I've run bloom, grow, and foliage pro by themselves in flower and what I do now works the best so far. Hope that helps.


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## Mad Mardigan (May 18, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> In hydro, I like foliage pro and protekt in veg and combos of foliage pro and bloom during flower (I use protekt during flower too). You only need enough FP (or grow) during flower to keep the plants green. I've run bloom, grow, and foliage pro by themselves in flower and what I do now works the best so far. Hope that helps.


I was thinking along those lines as well.
Thank you
Are you still cutting out the protekt in the last 2 weeks?


----------



## homebrewer (May 18, 2016)

Mad Mardigan said:


> I was thinking along those lines as well.
> Thank you
> *Are you still cutting out the protekt in the last 2 weeks?*


Yes, when I can remember to. I just think it's a waste of protekt to use it so late during flower.


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## SamsonsRiddle (May 18, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> Yes, when I can remember to. I just think it's a waste of protekt to use it so late during flower.


what are you working on now, haven't seen you post in a while...


----------



## rkymtnman (May 18, 2016)

@homebrewer 

did dyna gro ever hook you up with some goodies? i saw their post where they gave you an atta boy for all the good words about them


----------



## homebrewer (May 18, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> @homebrewer
> 
> did dyna gro ever hook you up with some goodies? i saw their post where they gave you an atta boy for all the good words about them


They gifted me a few quarts of their stuff and included some of their cloning gel and some KLN. I currently use Dip-N-Grow for cuts but I'm going to do a side-by-side with their gel in the next month to see how it does. They're good people over there for sure!


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## homebrewer (May 18, 2016)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> what are you working on now, haven't seen you post in a while...


I've been messing with elevated levels of potassium to see if it does anything beneficial. Mostly I've been chucking pollen and going through beans I've made. Here is my latest: Bodhi's Silver Mountain x Casey Jones:


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## rkymtnman (May 18, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> I've been messing with elevated levels of potassium to see if it does anything beneficial. Mostly I've been chucking pollen and going through beans I've made. Here is my latest: Bodhi's Silver Mountain x Casey Jones:


fail! reported for too much resin. lol. nice work! genetics is in your future.


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## SamsonsRiddle (May 19, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> I've been messing with elevated levels of potassium to see if it does anything beneficial. Mostly I've been chucking pollen and going through beans I've made. Here is my latest: Bodhi's Silver Mountain x Casey Jones:


Elevated potassium, eh? I was watching a couple members on here fighting over elevating sulfur and how it does or doesn't raise potency. I'm pretty sure you had tried this one time and then had your water tested; and you found that the elevated sulfur was still in the nutrient solution once you had it tested.

You take some of the best pictures i see around the forums. I assume you aren't hurting for money, but i'm sure people would pay whatever for some "homebrewer genetics"  Nice plant


----------



## homebrewer (May 19, 2016)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> Elevated potassium, eh? I was watching a couple members on here fighting over elevating sulfur and how it does or doesn't raise potency. I'm pretty sure you had tried this one time and then had your water tested; and you found that the elevated sulfur was still in the nutrient solution once you had it tested.


I messed with sulfur additions some years ago and in my experience it does nothing for potency. 



> You take some of the best pictures i see around the forums. I assume you aren't hurting for money, but i'm sure people would pay whatever for some "homebrewer genetics"  Nice plant


Thanks for the kind words!


----------



## questiondj42 (May 19, 2016)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> Elevated potassium, eh? I was watching a couple members on here fighting over elevating sulfur and how it does or doesn't raise potency. I'm pretty sure you had tried this one time and then had your water tested; and you found that the elevated sulfur was still in the nutrient solution once you had it tested.


Wasn't the crux of the "debate" about whether or not it increased aroma and improved taste? Or did I misread?


----------



## homebrewer (May 19, 2016)

questiondj42 said:


> Wasn't the crux of the "debate" about whether or not it increased aroma and improved taste? Or did I misread?


I don't know the debate you're speaking of but in my experience i'd say it did help the aroma. Not sure about flavor but those seem linked to some extent.


----------



## questiondj42 (May 19, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> I don't know the debate you're speaking of but in my experience i'd say it did help the aroma. Not sure about flavor but those seem linked to some extent.


From what I gathered form the thread, there was debate on whether it helped flavor. It revolved around known beneficial effects of sulfur in food crops. What sparked it was a question of which Jack's mix had the most sulfur. 

Smells make for flavor. But I can't imagine that the smoke from the combusted material could smell/taste anything like the uncombusted material. It seems like improving combusted taste would be subjective.


----------



## homebrewer (May 19, 2016)

questiondj42 said:


> From what I gathered form the thread, there was debate on whether it helped flavor. It revolved around known beneficial effects of sulfur in food crops. What sparked it was a question of which Jack's mix had the most sulfur.
> 
> Smells make for flavor. But I can't imagine that the smoke from the combusted material could smell/taste anything like the uncombusted material. It seems like improving combusted taste would be subjective.


I vape 90% of the time so maybe my experiences are different than those who smoke? 

What I think is important, and SamsonsRiddle kind of touched on it, is the fact that just because we feed more of a particular element doesn't mean the plants actually use it. Nitrogen seems to be an element that is subject to luxury consumption, silica may be another, but I think the takeaway is that elemental balance is key. I think a good balance of the 16 essential elements along with an organic-ish type additive will give simply stellar results.


----------



## questiondj42 (May 19, 2016)

But maybe


homebrewer said:


> I vape 90% of the time so maybe my experiences are different than those who smoke?
> 
> What I think is important, and SamsonsRiddle kind of touched on it, is the fact that just because we feed more of a particular element doesn't mean the plants actually use it. Nitrogen seems to be an element that is subject to luxury consumption, silica may be another, but I think the takeaway is that elemental balance is key. I think a good balance of the 16 essential elements along with an organic-ish type additive will give simply stellar results.


Ah! That's a very good point. I can see how that would make it easier to observe any differences in flavor.


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## SamsonsRiddle (May 19, 2016)

questiondj42 said:


> Wasn't the crux of the "debate" about whether or not it increased aroma and improved taste? Or did I misread?


I've actually seen several different threads where potency was said to be increased based on increased levels of sulfur (beyond what we have in our beloved dyna gro products via epsom salts and other sulfates). The claim was an increased production of trichs and higher THC levels. Something was mentioned how sulfur feeds potency and minerals feed terpenes, i believe.

I also read the part you were talking about where sulfurs were mentioned as they change the flavor profile of peppers, etc. in vegetable gardens and therefore it was also linked to a better terpene profile for cannabis by some others.


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## questiondj42 (May 19, 2016)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> I've actually seen several different threads where potency was said to be increased based on increased levels of sulfur (beyond what we have in our beloved dyna gro products via epsom salts and other sulfates). The claim was an increased production of trichs and higher THC levels. Something was mentioned how sulfur feeds potency and minerals feed terpenes, i believe.
> 
> I also read the part you were talking about where sulfurs were mentioned as they change the flavor profile of peppers, etc. in vegetable gardens and therefore it was also linked to a better terpene profile for cannabis by some others.


If data shows that sulfur influences flavor profiles in peppers, and esters and terpenes make flavor and aroma, it would be a reasonable assumption that the same is true for cannabis. Anecdotally, I started using MagPro in the flower tent, and things became noticeably stinkier.


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## questiondj42 (May 20, 2016)

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=silicon+trichome+production&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,44&as_vis=1

Looks like there are some studies that link silicon with trichome production in cucumbers.


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## homebrewer (May 20, 2016)

questiondj42 said:


> https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=silicon+trichome+production&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,44&as_vis=1
> 
> Looks like there are some studies that link silicon with trichome production in cucumbers.


My theory which could possibly be backed up my macro shots is that these 'resin additives' only grow _taller_ trics and not necessarily _more_ trics. Correct me if I'm wrong but for a flower to be more potent the trichome field would have to be more dense with trichome heads.


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## SamsonsRiddle (May 20, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> My theory which could possibly be backed up my macro shots is that these 'resin additives' only grow _taller_ trics and not necessarily _more_ trics. Correct me if I'm wrong but for a flower to be more potent the trichome field would have to be more dense with trichome heads.


My only question with the idea of more potency directly related to amount of trichomes would be; does more trichomes automatically make more thc, or could a more potent or concentrated amount of thc be produced in the same amount of trichomes? 

And then again, potent as in what standard - higher thc, cbd, or one of the many other chemicals produced within the trichomes?


----------



## posterart (May 20, 2016)

HB and Samson , What`z up ! Samson to your question about THC potency and trichrome count / size . I believe more trichromes increase potency ... but my question is , Are there strains that just have a higher THC potency ( say Raskal`s WiFi # 3 26% ) over a low grade MJ ?

I believe you could have rock candy low grade nugs and the potency is not high ( looks great , pretendica ) ... and have a less frosty nug but the THC potency ( 26 % ) was greater on a less trichome snow packed field . If you had the same exact strain and one just got less light / love in the grow . I would say the # of trichrome`s would definitely correlate to greater potency . PA


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## Mad Mardigan (May 21, 2016)

Good day HomeBrewer!
I just read this on a hydro setup.
Have you heard about this and have you done any trials to support his claims?

"Depending on the nutrient, working with a pH between 5.5–6.5 works fine. If you want to be more specific 6.0–6.3 for veg, and 5.7–5.9 for flower. It’s in these pH ranges that the minerals most needed for the respective plant cycles are most available. With regards to EC, I generally recommend 50–75% of a nutrient manufacturers directed dosage for best results. Remember that lower EC can result in a higher intake of water into a plant’s tissue, which in turn speeds plant metabolism and increases nutrient transport."

Thank you in advance

MM


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## posterart (May 21, 2016)

MM , Good post . I always thought it was vice versa 5.6 - 5.9 in Veg and 5.9 - 6.3 in Flower . In flower , that it`s normal for the PH to gradually rise from 5.9 to 6.3 PH PA


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## homebrewer (May 21, 2016)

Mad Mardigan said:


> Good day HomeBrewer!
> I just read this on a hydro setup.
> Have you heard about this and have you done any trials to support his claims?
> 
> ...


I shoot for a pH of around 6.0 in veg and 5.9 in flower. DynaGro's pH stays pretty steady for me but even then it might move +/- .1 over several days so targeting an exact pH number is not worth the effort. If you're in the 5.7 - 6.0 range then I'd just leave the pH where it is. 

In general, I like a lower EC. Less really is more when it comes to keeping plants healthy and happy.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Jun 5, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> I messed with sulfur additions some years ago and in my experience it does nothing for potency.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the kind words!


Here's my feeble attempt at photography, i'm probably going to give her a couple more weeks. DG+Pro+FP+ Female Seeds C99


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## homebrewer (Jun 5, 2016)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> Here's my feeble attempt at photography, i'm probably going to give her a couple more weeks. DG+Pro+FP+ Female Seeds C99
> 
> View attachment 3700556 View attachment 3700557 View attachment 3700558 View attachment 3700559 View attachment 3700560 View attachment 3700561


Those look nice! How do they smell?


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## posterart (Jun 5, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> Those look nice! How do they smell?


Samson , Ahh C99 looks nice , old school : )) . Photo`s look good . A tripod , under $ 20 bucks ( some for smart phones ) could come in handy . PA


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## SamsonsRiddle (Jun 6, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> Those look nice! How do they smell?


The smell would be a mix between pineapple and mangoes, or even a fruit punch smell. However, you can really only get a smell if it rubs against your finger.

This pheno was very sensitive to nutes and barely even grows during veg. I only fed her up to 180ppm and still got some burning. She really fills up those branches from top to bottom during the middle of flower to make up for the slow veg. 

My next adventure is to build my led, so i won't be growing for a while.


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## jstro420 (Jun 13, 2016)

Could anyone tell me why I can't see the pictures h/b has put up? Thanks. I'm a noob grower but have been reading this thread from the beginning. I myself have started my first grow using kindsoil and fx happy frog 50/50 with ocean forest month in and doing what I think is good lmao. Will try to get some pics up asap. Much respect btw h/b from the 20pgs I've read so far I can see you have a lot of knowledge on the subject.


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## homebrewer (Jun 15, 2016)

jstro420 said:


> Could anyone tell me why I can't see the pictures h/b has put up? Thanks. I'm a noob grower but have been reading this thread from the beginning. I myself have started my first grow using kindsoil and fx happy frog 50/50 with ocean forest month in and doing what I think is good lmao. Will try to get some pics up asap. Much respect btw h/b from the 20pgs I've read so far I can see you have a lot of knowledge on the subject.


The site that I originally uploaded the pictures to reformatted things and the pics were lost.

I still have all the pictures but I cannot edit old posts.


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## jstro420 (Jun 15, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> The site that originally uploaded the pictures to reformatted things and the pics were lost.
> 
> I still have all the pictures but I cannot edit old posts.


Thank you very much for the reply and the effort you have put into this comparison hb. My friend is a AN fanboy and has suggestedsstrongly that I use hg or AN but nah I'm reading past pg50 hav just bought today 1L of bloom grow n pret ekt with RR and roottech to start some clones off my first grow in veg now 1month n few days in kindsoil (hotsoil) from local company but grow cycle us crazy long. In my 3gal roottrapper pots veg is 2mnths I believe and atleast that in flower also usin 50/50 ff ocean forest n happy frog on top layer. They look beautiful but have twisted leaves at the end turning up to light on older fan leaves I've found it to be ph prob and am workin ok n calibration of hanna slim ph meter. Sorry for the long ass reply but of course u need the info to even under my sit and thats why I love this thread you've gone so in depth to actually show us all the right ways and I just wanted to thank you cause I'm a noob but I love plants of all kinds and have a house that looks better with alive plants verses dead lmao. But yes thank you homebrew you are awesome and I'm hooked on reading up and learning to look at what the actual plant I have wants!!!!


----------



## homebrewer (Jun 15, 2016)

jstro420 said:


> Thank you very much for the reply and the effort you have put into this comparison hb. My friend is a AN fanboy and has suggestedsstrongly that I use hg or AN but nah I'm reading past pg50 hav just bought today 1L of bloom grow n pret ekt with RR and roottech to start some clones off my first grow in veg now 1month n few days in kindsoil (hotsoil) from local company but grow cycle us crazy long. In my 3gal roottrapper pots veg is 2mnths I believe and atleast that in flower also usin 50/50 ff ocean forest n happy frog on top layer. They look beautiful but have twisted leaves at the end turning up to light on older fan leaves I've found it to be ph prob and am workin ok n calibration of hanna slim ph meter. Sorry for the long ass reply but of course u need the info to even under my sit and thats why I love this thread you've gone so in depth to actually show us all the right ways and I just wanted to thank you cause I'm a noob but I love plants of all kinds and have a house that looks better with alive plants verses dead lmao. But yes thank you homebrew you are awesome and I'm hooked on reading up and learning to look at what the actual plant I have wants!!!!


H&G's Aqua Flakes is great in hydro and super easy to use. In your situation, I'd just use Grow and Protekt from start to finish. If it makes you feel better, maybe an _occasional_ 50/50 mix of Grow and Bloom during the last half of flower might not hurt but just Grow is enough to match/outperform anything AN is offering.


----------



## jstro420 (Jun 15, 2016)

d said:


>


Damn they terminated this vid grrr


----------



## supdro (Jun 15, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> H&G's Aqua Flakes is great in hydro and super easy to use. In your situation, I'd just use Grow and Protekt from start to finish. If it makes you feel better, maybe an _occasional_ 50/50 mix of Grow and Bloom during the last half of flower might not hurt but just Grow is enough to match/outperform anything AN is offering.



I stand behind HB. He turned me onto Dyna back in 2011 and I will never look back! Ebb& flow or drip system and Dyna you can grow lbs with ease! I have fp+,protect, bloom, and bennies. That's it keep it kiss and green


----------



## DesertGrow89 (Jun 15, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> H&G's Aqua Flakes is great in hydro and super easy to use. In your situation, I'd just use Grow and Protekt from start to finish. If it makes you feel better, maybe an _occasional_ 50/50 mix of Grow and Bloom during the last half of flower might not hurt but just Grow is enough to match/outperform anything AN is offering.


I've been using foliage pro from start to finish do you think the 3-1-2 isn't enough P during flower? Maybe use FP during veg and through stretch and then switch to grow?


----------



## homebrewer (Jun 15, 2016)

DesertGrow89 said:


> I've been using foliage pro from start to finish do you think the 3-1-2 isn't enough P during flower? Maybe use FP during veg and through stretch and then switch to grow?


In dirt/coco/promix, your plants don't need very much P. So to answer your question, a 3-1-2 NPK ratio is about as perfect as it gets. 

I've run a side-by-side with grow and foliage pro as I used to LOVE grow from start to finish. Grow is GREAT from start to finish. Foliage pro is better though which is why I use it instead of grow.


----------



## jstro420 (Jun 15, 2016)

[QUOTEhomebrewer, post: 12691458, member: 231911"]H&G's Aqua Flakes is great in hydro and super easy to use. In your situation, I'd just use Grow and Protekt from start to finish. If it makes you feel better, maybe an _occasional_ 50/50 mix of Grow and Bloom during the last half of flower might not hurt but just Grow is enough to match/outperform anything AN is offering.[/QUOTE]
Hello again and I thank you for your response btw its very nice and I'm grateful! My ? Would be if I'm running hotsoil would dg kill any microorganisms or any other good stuff in kindsoil (www.kindsoil.com) they do state you don't have to use anything extra as it won't help on ther site. thank you for your time, patience and wisdom  I have been reading up on hydro and ran across your thread its awesome even with out the bud shots  but most importantly informative!!


----------



## jstro420 (Jun 15, 2016)

> homebrewer, post: 8352718, member: 231911"]Pretty easy stuff, huh. I'm doing a grow journal right now (https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/566752-classic-seeds-grow-journal.html) and they've really only been getting grow and protekt. I'm not saying calmag might not be needed for you, your strains or your environment, but I have yet to see a need for more calcium and magnesium than is already supplied by their base nutrients.
> 
> This is the most recent update, day 42 of flower and overall they're maybe 90 days from seed. I've never hit them with calmag but I do own a bottle, it's a great tool to have especially if you use RO water. This is a Thai and Columbian Gold crossed to (C99 x Romulan):
> 
> ...


Damn she's a beauty!!!


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## homebrewer (Jun 16, 2016)

jstro420 said:


> Hello again and I thank you for your response btw its very nice and I'm grateful! My ? Would be if I'm running hotsoil would dg kill any microorganisms or any other good stuff in kindsoil (www.kindsoil.com) they do state you don't have to use anything extra as it won't help on ther site. thank you for your time, patience and wisdom  I have been reading up on hydro and ran across your thread its awesome even with out the bud shots  but most importantly informative!!


I would only use Grow or Foliage pro when you see that your soil is running out of juice. If it's a quality soil then you should be good for quite some time. Maybe the last half of flower you'll see some fade? At that point some light doses of Grow or Foliage pro will get you to the finish line in good shape.


----------



## jstro420 (Jun 16, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> I would only use grow or Foliage pro when you see that your soil is running out of juice. If it's a quality soil then you should be good for quite some time. Maybe the last half of flower you'll see some fade? At that point some light doses of Grow or Foliage pro will get you to the finish line in good shape.


Ok and yes they said after 5-6 weeks of flower top dress could be possibly needed so I can use dg grow instead thats awesome as I'm using most of what's left of hotsoil in outdoor grow. Thanks once again on your knowledge and reply hb!!!! Lookin to get some pics on here of my 4 girls growing now to.


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## jstro420 (Jun 16, 2016)

These are them thanks for looking


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## jstro420 (Jun 16, 2016)

These are then at about 3weeks btw


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## jstro420 (Jun 16, 2016)

↑


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## supdro (Jun 17, 2016)

jstro420 said:


> These are them thanks for looking


Good looking plants, genetics look strong ..what are they?


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## jstro420 (Jun 18, 2016)

[QUOTEpdro, post: 12697153, member: 31114"]Good looking plants, genetics look strong ..what are they?[/QUOTE]
I got them from a friend who crossed g13 and jackskellington have yet to smoke this cross but separate there really good. his have already been grown and look fckn amazing ill post his pic. for pheno he dnt exactly remember the front right was from clone and the other 3 are grown form seed but all the tags said g13xjack.


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## ATooDope (Jul 3, 2016)

Hey HB, just wanted to stop by and thank you for all of the info in here. I have lurked on RIU for a long time but always kept tabs on this thread. Have DG running in my 4x4 grow and could not be happier!! The Grow and Foilage Pro are just amazing nutes to work with.


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## posterart (Jul 3, 2016)

Happy 4th everyone !!!


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## PCXV (Jul 3, 2016)

Homebrewer,

I'm an indoor soil Dyna Gro user with Foliage Pro, Bloom, Mag Pro, and Protekt. I've had problems with nitrogen deficiency early in bloom and was wondering if you could supply me a basic nutrient schedule for these products. I know you have success and instead of continuing to go back and forth on formulating the NPK ratios, I thought I would ask you. I use tap water mostly with a PH of 6.3-6.8, for flushing I use distilled water.

I will read through this thread to see if you have already supplied this information, but at 100 pages it's going to take a while.


----------



## homebrewer (Jul 3, 2016)

ATooDope said:


> Hey HB, just wanted to stop by and thank you for all of the info in here. I have lurked on RIU for a long time but always kept tabs on this thread. Have DG running in my 4x4 grow and could not be happier!! The Grow and Foilage Pro are just amazing nutes to work with.


They really are stupid simple formulas to use and that fact comes with no compromises. Glad the garden is doing well over there!


----------



## homebrewer (Jul 3, 2016)

PCXV said:


> Homebrewer,
> 
> I'm an indoor soil Dyna Gro user with Foliage Pro, Bloom, Mag Pro, and Protekt. I've had problems with nitrogen deficiency early in bloom and was wondering if you could supply me a basic nutrient schedule for these products. I know you have success and instead of continuing to go back and forth on formulating the NPK ratios, I thought I would ask you. I use tap water mostly with a PH of 6.3-6.8, for flushing I use distilled water.
> 
> I will read through this thread to see if you have already supplied this information, but at 100 pages it's going to take a while.


Read through the last 20, I'm sure you'll find your answer.


----------



## PCXV (Jul 3, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> Read through the last 20, I'm sure you'll find your answer.


I've read through the first 40 and the last 20, and I have found a lot of useful information. I also want to know if I should order a TDS meter (http://www.tdsmeter.com/products/tds4.html) or an EC tester (http://www.tdsmeter.com/products/ec3.html)? What do you use? When you say 1.2 EC is that the same as 1.2 _µ_S/cm?

Also, how many times do you flush soil with DG? I've heard once before bloom, once halfway through bloom, and once at the end of bloom to flush with 6-10 gallons of water to remove salt build up. I assume you add nutrients after the flush. Do you recommend this?

Unti I get a meter I suppose I won't know for sure, but judging from the info I've gathered from this thread so far, how does this feeding schedule look in your opinion?

2ml Foliage Pro, 1ml Protekt **Veg week 3-5*

3ml Foliage Pro, 1ml Protekt **Veg week 6-7 *

2ml Foliage Pro, 1ml Mag Pro, 2ml Protekt **Veg week 8 + Bloom week 1-2*

1ml Foliage Pro, 2ml Bloom, 2ml Protekt **Bloom week 3-4 *

1ml Foliage Pro, 2ml Bloom, 1ml Mag-Pro*, * 2ml Protekt **Bloom week 5-6*

1ml Foliage Pro, 2ml Bloom, 2ml Mag-Pro, 2ml Protekt **Bloom week 7-8
*
2ml Bloom **Bloom week 9-10
*
Thanks for your time, I know you've answered a lot of the same questions in this thread so I don't want to grind your gears, just can't pass up getting information from a trustworthy source.


----------



## SamsonsRiddle (Jul 3, 2016)

PCXV said:


> I've read through the first 40 and the last 20, and I have found a lot of useful information. I also want to know if I should order a TDS meter (http://www.tdsmeter.com/products/tds4.html) or an EC tester (http://www.tdsmeter.com/products/ec3.html)? What do you use? When you say 1.2 EC is that the same as 1.2 _µ_S/cm?
> 
> Also, how many times do you flush soil with DG? I've heard once before bloom, once halfway through bloom, and once at the end of bloom to flush with 6-10 gallons of water to remove salt build up. I assume you add nutrients after the flush. Do you recommend this?
> 
> ...


You're making this too hard on yourself. If you're in soil, only use foliage pro and protekt all the way through. don't worry about bloom or mag pro in containers. 

If you are feeding at a good level (which means you aren't burning the shit out of your plants by "pushing them to their limits"), then you don't need to flush at all. You will want to reduce your nutrients during the last couple weeks, but flushing is something people do who have messed up and you shouldn't be planning on that 

You want an ec or ppm meter. EC is a universal number. For example: .5 ec is .5 ec is .5 ec. However, .5 ec can be 250 ppm or 350 ppm depending on the scale you are on. I recommend ec, which will make it easier to know exactly what you're saying when you say it without too much math. 
Here's a simple conversion chart: http://www.dutchmaster.com.au/?language=english&page=growers_guide&topic=ppm_ec_cf_conversion
http://www.dutchmaster.com.au/?language=english&page=growers_guide&topic=ppm_ec_cf_conversion
A simple feeding schedule would be like this:
1ml protekt - 2ml foliage pro during veg
.5ml protekt - 4 ml foliage pro during flower


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## PCXV (Jul 3, 2016)

Samson, thanks for the info on EC vs PPM. I value your input but would also like to hear from Homebrewer as he has stressed the advantage of a 1-3-2 NPK ratio in bloom. What my schedule above does is start at 3-1-2 in veg, and then use 1-1-1 to transition to 1-3-2. Veg has been easy, it's going into bloom that has been tough and I think your plan would help my plant stay green but how would the low P values affect flowering and bud production?


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## Resinhound (Jul 3, 2016)

PCXV said:


> Samson, thanks for the info on EC vs PPM. I value your input but would also like to hear from Homebrewer as he has stressed the advantage of a 1-3-2 NPK ratio in bloom. What my schedule above does is start at 3-1-2 in veg, and then use 1-1-1 to transition to 1-3-2. Veg has been easy, it's going into bloom that has been tough and I think your plan would help my plant stay green but how would the low P values affect flowering and bud production?


High p bloom formulas are basically Bullshit, cannabis actually has a greater need for potassium during bloom than phosphorus.
3-1-2 works great all the way through the grow


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## PCXV (Jul 3, 2016)

Resinhound, I'm actually leaning towards that line of logic based on my very limited experience, but it is a tough picking out the truth from what are seemingly contrary opinions. Just to clarify, you are suggesting there is no benefit or reason to use Bloom or Mag-Pro throughout any stage of flowering?


----------



## Resinhound (Jul 3, 2016)

PCXV said:


> Resinhound, I'm actually leaning towards that line of logic based on my very limited experience, but it is a tough picking out the truth from what are seemingly contrary opinions. Just to clarify, you are suggesting there is no benefit or reason to use Bloom or Mag-Pro throughout any stage of flowering?


If you are in soil or any kind of soilless medium foliage pro works great all the way through, the only thing I would add in flower is some type of potassium... Most people would say protekt, but I prefer plain old potassium sulfate.

But ya absolutely no need for a high p formula whatsoever.

The ceo of dynagro has said the same thing as well... There are high p formulas because people asked for them because they think they are needed, in truth, they aren't at all.


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## homebrewer (Jul 3, 2016)

PCXV said:


> Samson, thanks for the info on EC vs PPM. I value your input but would also like to hear from Homebrewer as he has stressed the advantage of a 1-3-2 NPK ratio in bloom. What my schedule above does is start at 3-1-2 in veg, and then use 1-1-1 to transition to 1-3-2. Veg has been easy, it's going into bloom that has been tough and I think your plan would help my plant stay green but how would the low P values affect flowering and bud production?


These guys are saying the same things that I'd have said to you. Foliage pro from start to finish will do you well.


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## PCXV (Jul 3, 2016)

Then I'm convinced. I will report back.


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## koda7225 (Sep 3, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> One thing I want to point out is the difference between DynaGro and Connoisseur even at 2 weeks into flower. The first picture is DynaGro at day 15, the second is Connoisseur at day 14 (same picture as above). I'll let you decide who has the advantage.
> 
> 
> *DynaGro day 15....*
> ...


Why cant i see pictures?


----------



## Jason9922 (Sep 3, 2016)

koda7225 said:


> Why cant i see pictures?


Not seeing any pictures or videos


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## koda7225 (Sep 3, 2016)

Jason9922 said:


> Not seeing any pictures or videos


None just where they should be with a big red X


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## homebrewer (Sep 3, 2016)

koda7225 said:


> None just where they should be with a big red X


The site where they were originally posted reformatted and the pics were lost. I still have them somewhere.


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## koda7225 (Sep 4, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> The site where they were originally posted reformatted and the pics were lost. I still have them somewhere.


Id like to see the final outcome, i am just switching to dyna-gro this time around...

Curious as to what you have found to be the best ratio (or simple for me ml/gal of gro and bloow and protekt) for grow and bloom, i know its in the thread somewhere but i keep missing it with all the offshoots to other things in the thread


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## koda7225 (Sep 4, 2016)

koda7225 said:


> Id like to see the final outcome, i am just switching to dyna-gro this time around...
> 
> Curious as to what you have found to be the best ratio (or simple for me ml/gal of gro and bloow and protekt) for grow and bloom, i know its in the thread somewhere but i keep missing it with all the offshoots to other things in the thread


Oh that would be in a recirculating system fyi


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## homebrewer (Sep 5, 2016)

koda7225 said:


> Id like to see the final outcome, i am just switching to dyna-gro this time around...
> 
> Curious as to what you have found to be the best ratio (or simple for me ml/gal of gro and bloow and protekt) for grow and bloom, i know its in the thread somewhere but i keep missing it with all the offshoots to other things in the thread


The results are on page 25.


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## koda7225 (Sep 5, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> The results are on page 25.


If you can dig up the pics would you message me?


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## homebrewer (Sep 5, 2016)

koda7225 said:


> If you can dig up the pics would you message me?


Sure but don't hold your breath. The pics are on an external hard drive and it would take at least a couple of hours to find them and get them organized. I'm not sure that I'm all that motivated to do that. Sorry.


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## koda7225 (Sep 5, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> Sure but don't hold your breath. The pics are on an external hard drive and it would take at least a couple of hours to find them and get them organized. I'm not sure that I'm all that motivated to do that. Sorry.


I just meant if you happened to run across them for some reason. Lol


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## CornerStone (Sep 8, 2016)

Hey Homebrewer Ive been reading your posts recently and I think you could make the begginers life pretty simple by doing a Dyna Gro schedule from seed to harvest in ppm (.5) so people can follow "Homebrewer schedule"

I know the standard schedule is like this:

Seedlings, Early Sprouts 100 to 250 

Early Vegging 300 to 400

Full Vegetation 450 to 700

Early Blooming 750 to 950

Full Mature Blooms 1000 to 1600

I find in your post the percentage of ml per galon But you could explain how much pro tekt, grow, bloom and Cal mag in ppm separately for people that dont use galon measure to mix their nutes (like me)

Could you do that please? Or is a little too much to ask?

Thanks again for all your shared knowledge and time spend on those forums. You are awesome!


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## homebrewer (Sep 9, 2016)

CornerStone said:


> Hey Homebrewer Ive been reading your posts recently and I think you could make the begginers life pretty simple by doing a Dyna Gro schedule from seed to harvest in ppm (.5) so people can follow "Homebrewer schedule"
> 
> I know the standard schedule is like this:
> 
> ...


I think people tend to learn a lot less when they are spoon fed. Plus, the 'schedule' that I use in my garden may not work in someone else's garden due to all the variables (container size, strain, wattage, environment, etc.).


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## Chrisdamax (Sep 14, 2016)

2 Homebrewer, thanks bro. I started reading your journals 3 years ago. Switched to Dyna-Gro Foliage-Pro and fucken success like never before. I ran a 85 light warehouse with 15 lights in Veg, got 5 complete harvest all on 2 gallons of foliar-pro lol.. I love you .. I just Ran Pro-mix HP, Foliage-pro and Pro Tekt during veg and mixed pro and bloom for bloom.. DAMN made me look like a pro and opened up doors in the Medical Marijuana Industry for me in Cali,.. THANK YOU, Homebrewer,. Here are a few pics of what I've grown all Dyna,. Don't remember the exact strains on pics, I had 19 different strains all running 1ml/gallon of Foliar-Pro and Pro-Tekt every feed for the most part and only increased slightly in bloom or if they needed it.. thanks again Master HB

Chris


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## homebrewer (Sep 15, 2016)

Chrisdamax said:


> 2 Homebrewer, thanks bro. I started reading your journals 3 years ago. Switched to Dyna-Gro Foliage-Pro and fucken success like never before. I ran a 85 light warehouse with 15 lights in Veg, got 5 complete harvest all on 2 gallons of foliar-pro lol.. I love you .. I just Ran Pro-mix HP, Foliage-pro and Pro Tekt during veg and mixed pro and bloom for bloom.. DAMN made me look like a pro and opened up doors in the Medical Marijuana Industry for me in Cali,.. THANK YOU, Homebrewer,. Here are a few pics of what I've grown all Dyna,. Don't remember the exact strains on pics, I had 19 different strains all running 1ml/gallon of Foliar-Pro and Pro-Tekt every feed for the most part and only increased slightly in bloom or if they needed it.. thanks again Master HB
> 
> Chris


Well done! Well done indeed my friend!


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## topher73 (Feb 28, 2017)

Thank you Homebrewer for your info! You have saved me from wasting money on this hyped AN nutes. I am going to go with Dyna grow/bloom for sure. I was using GH 3 part years ago and just got back into hydro again and noticed how salty it was back in the day running a hybrid dwc/nft system. AN only had me interested in the perfect ph part but then just thought they have some buffers in there to keep it balanced and again you proved that is BS too. I like the fact you like to keep it simple as I was overwhelmed when I went to my local grow shop and it was a ton of ferts that required 6 bottles of expensive garbage. Once again thanks for the awesome info!!


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## OneHitDone (Aug 29, 2017)

Chrisdamax said:


> 2 Homebrewer, thanks bro. I started reading your journals 3 years ago. Switched to Dyna-Gro Foliage-Pro and fucken success like never before. I ran a 85 light warehouse with 15 lights in Veg, got 5 complete harvest all on 2 gallons of foliar-pro lol.. I love you .. I just Ran Pro-mix HP, Foliage-pro and Pro Tekt during veg and mixed pro and bloom for bloom.. DAMN made me look like a pro and opened up doors in the Medical Marijuana Industry for me in Cali,.. THANK YOU, Homebrewer,. Here are a few pics of what I've grown all Dyna,. Don't remember the exact strains on pics, I had 19 different strains all running 1ml/gallon of Foliar-Pro and Pro-Tekt every feed for the most part and only increased slightly in bloom or if they needed it.. thanks again Master HB
> 
> Chris


1ml each per gallon or liter of water on each?
That sounds super low on nutrient concentrations.
What were your nutrients previous to the Dyna Gro and how would you rate finished flower quality?


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## Shitty Mermaid (Jan 6, 2018)

Has anyone tried to use the entire AN line _and_ the entire Dynagro line on the same grow?eh..?eh..?


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## Northernmich (Jan 9, 2018)

Just jumping in here growing in promix have ro water new to this dyna grow I have a bottle of dyna gro foliage pro and a bottle of Pro Tekt So one ML of both per gallon mixed daily will work ? Is this what I am getting from the thead. Or is there a page listed with the best mix thanks.


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## smokebros (Jan 9, 2018)

Northernmich said:


> Just jumping in here growing in promix have ro water new to this dyna grow I have a bottle of dyna gro foliage pro and a bottle of Pro Tekt So one ML of both per gallon mixed daily will work ? Is this what I am getting from the thead. Or is there a page listed with the best mix thanks.


2.5ML or so per gallon of Protekt has worked really well for me in coco and soil.

If you have small plants/seedlings then start at 250-300PPM'd of foliage pro. Not exactly what ML per gallon that is, just use your TDS meter.
As they grow larger, increase your PPM's of Foliage Pro by 50-100 per week.

I typically max out veg around 500PPM's and Flower between 700-900PPM's.

Also, don't be surprised if you need to integrate 100-150PPM's of calmag into your routine. Although Foliage Pro is a "complete" bottle with all macros & micros, the 2% Ca and .5% of Mg aren't usually enough to supplement the plant at the low PPM's you'd be running in veg.


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## Northernmich (Jan 10, 2018)

smokebros said:


> 2.5ML or so per gallon of Protekt has worked really well for me in coco and soil.
> 
> If you have small plants/seedlings then start at 250-300PPM'd of foliage pro. Not exactly what ML per gallon that is, just use your TDS meter.
> As they grow larger, increase your PPM's of Foliage Pro by 50-100 per week.
> ...


That would be daily used not weekly.


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## swedsteven (Jan 10, 2018)

My best result was 5ml a gallon max if not tip burn but i was using grow and foliage .dyna gro rock !


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## Northernmich (Jan 11, 2018)

swedsteven said:


> My best result was 5ml a gallon max if not tip burn but i was using grow and foliage .dyna gro rock !


Is that daily or weekly feeding?


----------



## swedsteven (Jan 11, 2018)

Every watering


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## Northernmich (Jan 13, 2018)

Wow that is above the manufactures recomendations.


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## OneHitDone (Jan 13, 2018)

Northernmich said:


> Wow that is above the manufactures recomendations.


What are Dyna-Gro's recommendations?


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## Northernmich (Jan 14, 2018)

2 ml daily 5 ml weekly.,


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## OneHitDone (Jan 14, 2018)

Northernmich said:


> 2 ml daily 5 ml weekly.,


You must be using "Super Dyna-Gro" or something to get away with that low of an application rate


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## Northernmich (Jan 15, 2018)

Just using what is above posted many times on this thread It says on the bottle 2 ml for maintance 5 ml weekly.
2 Homebrewer, thanks bro. I started reading your journals 3 years ago. Switched to Dyna-Gro Foliage-Pro and fucken success like never before. I ran a 85 light warehouse with 15 lights in Veg, got 5 complete harvest all on 2 gallons of foliar-pro lol.. I love you .. I just Ran Pro-mix HP, Foliage-pro and Pro Tekt during veg and mixed pro and bloom for bloom.. DAMN made me look like a pro and opened up doors in the Medical Marijuana Industry for me in Cali,.. THANK YOU, Homebrewer,. Here are a few pics of what I've grown all Dyna,. Don't remember the exact strains on pics, I had 19 different strains all running 1ml/gallon of Foliar-Pro and Pro-Tekt every feed for the most part and only increased slightly in bloom or if they needed it.. thanks again Master HB
BTW the thing you posted is for weekly not daily. Foliage-Pro® is typically less expensive per gallon of nutrient than most other less complete and less effective fertilizers. Only 1/4 tsp. Foliage-Pro per gallon of water (1:3000) with each watering for maintenance, 1/2 tsp. per gallon https://dyna-gro.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Foliage-Pro-Sht-2014.pdf https://dyna-gro.com/product/foliage-pro/ 

Maintenance: Mix ¼ tsp. per gallon of water with every watering.


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## mston (Feb 12, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> I don't use NPK additives with DynaGro* so to make it fair, I wont be using them here. I do use and could use magpro as it has sulfur and magnesium as well as a booster-like NPK ratio, though fat mike doesn't agree with the higher phosphorus content of that product. So to stay true to AN's philosophy of higher potassium and not so high phosphorus, I'll probably add nothing at all as sulfates are not going to make the difference either way in this grow. As you said, AN claims that Connoisseur is the top-of-the-line nutrient on the market which was _supposedly_ put together by a team of 12 PhD's. We shall see if the performance matches the hype .
> 
> In regards to any 3 part, DG proved itself vastly superior during the time period where I ran them side-by-side. So much so that I've got about 5 gallons of 3-part that will never be used indoors again.
> 
> ...


Can you give me a feeding schedule using dyna gro nutrients in coco fox farm coco loco please?


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## homebrewer (Feb 28, 2018)

mston said:


> Can you give me a feeding schedule using dyna gro nutrients in coco fox farm coco loco please?


Any of their veg formulas will work great start to finish.


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## mston (Feb 28, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> Any of their veg formulas will work great start to finish.


Thank you i enjoyed this study you have convinced me


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## mmsmms123 (Mar 1, 2018)

so this forum way back in the day in 2012 tought me how to grow so homebrewer thank you i have been following from the beggining anyway i did the grandmaster package vs dyna bloom calmag protect dynaenzyme and protekt with liquid karma and the results are that an made some great smoke. the difference between the two to make it short and sweet is that an made some great smoke. the resin holds the bud in place. now when lit it stayed lit it has a great smell to it and it was fun to mix with my ml dropper. other than that dynagro with all of their supplememts makes more compact, stickier and sweeter smelling bud. the smoke is much better and it costs are 10x less and i swear swear swear do not waste the money if you want to have fun being a scientist than by all means take the 250ml package for like 300 bucks. it was fun honestly but i am smoking my dynagro right now and i gave a lot of my an to friends and family.just please remember if you like tight sweet sticky buds than listen to homebrewer! i had to sign up just to finally say thanks


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## mmsmms123 (Mar 1, 2018)

oh yes and i used the veg blend too. the only difference is that the 4-0-0 and the part b (cant remember the n-p-k) is that you have to cut the dynagro by about half when sprouting/seedling.


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## mston (Mar 1, 2018)

I was going to run foliage pro for first two weeks of veg at half strength then add dynabloom at half strength after that so both foliage and dynabloom at half strength until 1 week after lights got to 12hrs then run just bloom also the cal mag half strength all the way through since im using coco coir also should i use any enzymes?


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## homebrewer (Mar 22, 2018)

mston said:


> I was going to run foliage pro for first two weeks of veg at half strength then add dynabloom at half strength after that so both foliage and dynabloom at half strength until 1 week after lights got to 12hrs then run just bloom also the cal mag half strength all the way through since im using coco coir also should i use any enzymes?


If you're in coco then I'd skip the bloom altogether. If it makes you feel good you could run 75% FP and 25% bloom in flower. Calmag is not needed, it is really never needed if your base already contains calcium and magnesium.


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## Growgerth24 (Apr 4, 2018)

My 2 cents on dynagro

A few years ago I was running advanced nuts and getting great results, but hated the price and their marketing. Stumbled across HB on these forums and started using dynagro. Starting 12/12 gro bloom with a little more bloom at the end. After the first couple weeks in bloom holy crap! Big beautiful lush plants awesome. As the crop went on super green and lush beautiul growth; however at the end the bud was not of the same quality. That round was not of the best environent so I chalked it up to that. Ended up moving and took a couple months off.
Next grow-
Tried canna. Which had a 2-2-4 ratio- opposite of dynagro at the beginning. Was really mad right off the bat. Yellowing after week 3. Purple stems. Urghhhh so ugly. Decided to stick with it. Actually turned out to be really good bud despite all this. Even better than the beautiful lush green dynagro round.-which is why I didnt go back to straight dyna Next gro and decided to do soemthing different-
Used dynagro for first 10 days only. Then switched to canna 2-2-4 After that. Can I tell you holy shit. Best round ever. Followed this regimen for about a year being my best year ever. Moved again. Decided to try another new nute regimine -
Now dynagro for first 3 to 5 weeks depending on strain- followed by Lucas formula for the finish( a tweak up of P for longer into flower and also a tweak up of p over canna and a lot less K comparitavitely) results were not nearly on the same level.
So then I decided to run a side by side. Straight dyna//Dyna for first 10 days then a high k fert// dyna for first 10 days and even p to k ratio(lucas).
The results- straight dyna was the least quality and product weight was the least-Actually had to sell it at a lower price point(darkest green by the way). Canna mix was the best followed by the dyna/ Lucas mix
My take away-
Phophorsus is needed in copious amounts for the first week or so followed by potassium.
Dynagro is simply too high in phosphorus and anatomical nitrogen to be used as a useful cheap alternative in my opinion.

Things I agree with homebrewer on- 
nutrient salts are nutrient salts as long as they are chelated correctly and in balance.

Things I disagree with homebrewer on "-Just keep the leaves green and your plants will be happy- "completely false and the two are not necessarily correlated. A symptom of k deficiency is super lush green growth. Or too much N for that matter.
Another thing- "plants respond to a multitude of n-p-k ratios". That is BS. Just like humans have an ideal proper fat carb protein ratio for muscle synthesis - plants do have an ideal ratio. Depending on environent and strain. Will they grow with many different ratios? Yea. but to think it' not necessary to optimize that is foolish thinking. If I have two hydro setups and one is going through more nutrients according to ppm measurments, u can safely assume the other one is getting a better ratio assuming same clone.
Now please dont point me to your AN vs dynagro comparison. Your experiment actually validates my hypotheses (ok my not validates, but doesn' invalidate) it makes sense your plants responded well to the dyna in comparison to the AN at the beginning)
I know what' coming next- "journal your shit"

Why I havnt- I live in the unfriendliest of states, this is has changed. And you will see a ton of me on here in the coming months.

Do I work for any company?
Nope any 1-2-1 ratio in the beginning followed by any 1-1-2 ratio Will work. Varying slitghly with strain and environment.
But dyna ratio the entire way through leads to less than ideal product.


----------



## Northernmich (Apr 6, 2018)

But dyna ratio the entire way through leads to less than ideal product I beg to differ. Did Lucas for 8 years I am all the way on Dyna from here on out,. All my soil test came back perfect ... I do use the 1/4 tsp pro tek 1/4 fp all thew the grow,.. then in flower. I use the bloom once a week and mag plus once or twice the fp on the other days drop the pro tek 4th week in flower I like to keep them green close to the end MMM sweet stuff.. I used Dyna grow back in the late 80s Glad I went back. oh and some recharge... GH flavorlishish last 3 weeks of bloom maybe that gives it the flavor I dont know.,


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## Growgerth24 (Apr 6, 2018)

Foilage pro is quite high in ammonical nitrogen for bloom isn't it?

I guess if I was going to mix products of theirs it would make sense to us FP to keep the k up, and hope that the N wouldn't be too high because its so low in the bloom formula.

Another thing I don' like however is the chunks that accumulate in the bottom of the bottle. Im not a chemist, but it doesn't seem like all parts would necessarily fall out of a solution in uniform. How do I know those chunks are not of a certain nutrient (lets say calcium) that precipitate easier.
Not to mention its not even that much cheaper than higher k formulas that you can only seem to find in cannabis specific basis. The scams are in the additives like amino acids and enzymes. Dyna still costs me 20 a bottle, and I don't like to buy it in larger amounts because of those darn rocks that fall out of the solution.

Yea I cant stand the dyna gro products outside the first ten days of bloom. And even so, there are higher p formulas on the market for those first 10 days that you can use as an alternative.


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## homebrewer (Apr 7, 2018)

Growgerth24 said:


> My 2 cents on dynagro
> 
> A few years ago I was running advanced nuts and getting great results, but hated the price and their marketing. Stumbled across HB on these forums and started using dynagro. Starting 12/12 gro bloom with a little more bloom at the end. After the first couple weeks in bloom holy crap! Big beautiful lush plants awesome. As the crop went on super green and lush beautiul growth; however at the end the bud was not of the same quality. That round was not of the best environent so I chalked it up to that. Ended up moving and took a couple months off.
> Next grow-
> ...


I'll engage in a discussion here but first you need to let us know what you're growing in. Hydro? Soil? Coco? Peat? What EC were you feeding at and what products were you using and how?


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## Growgerth24 (Apr 7, 2018)

Promix hp peat. Sometimes il throw a a few bags of soil into a bale if I dont feel like fertilizing in veg.

My e.c usually runs around 1 to 1.3 highest. I have never needed more. I am 99.9% sure my conversion is correct, I never go over 900 ppm on the 700 scale. I would do hydro but I am not in love with the plant count.
Run 2 1000's with a 330 LEC in the middle
Co2 to 900 ppm.
Temps never above 90 and never below 75. Humidity is rather low, roughly 35 to 40. But I like to be on the safe side with that.
Used foilage pro if I was in straight promix for veg. 2 or 3 days into flower I would use half gro half bloom depending on look. Like I said they always looked beautiful foilage wise, reaching and everything. The other ones fed a higher k regimine after day 10 always were just as green at the end, but the product was leaps and bounds better. Sometimes I added protekt, sometimes I wouldn't bother because you need to mix it first else it gets clumpy, and I would sometimes forget to start with it(prob not good to give it every time anyways? Just a guess, I always like to be more conservative)
I wish I had more experience with hydro, but are the nutrient needs that much different than promix?
And I'm not in love with foilage pro for bloom because you essentially are using a nutrient that has more N than anything else in bloom just to get k into the medium or res or whatever you might have.
And again, its really not cheaper than the one part I use now. Especially because if I get that many chunks from a quart, I Can't imagine was precipitates from a gallon, so I never wanted to do it.
I remember I even put that stuff in a protein shaker and a wisk with a cup of boiling water and shook my brains out, nope, still didnt do the trick. Just to save what amounts to be about 10 dollars a cycle. No thanks. Again outside a couple companies the scams and big price tags are in the additives(except for AN and maybe one or two others-everything of theirs is expensive)


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## homebrewer (Apr 7, 2018)

I think your EC is high and your room is a little arid. In promix I would not be running combos of foliage pro and bloom. High P formulas in promix are garbage. High K formulas are OK as long as it's in balance with everything else. So essentially I think you have some grower errors and are choosing to blame the food. 

Yes, nutrient uptake is different in hydro. 

Foliage pro from start to finish in promix below. It's not about the brand though, it's about the minerals and any brand or bottle that is supplying the elements in the ratios that plants like will do fantastic. But nutrients are only like the 3rd most importing thing in cultivation. If your herb sucks then you cannot blame the food. You can blame environmental stresses, that'll kill quality right quick. AN sucks but if you read this thread you'd see that my testers could not tell the difference between the AN and DG grown flowers. AN just happened to yield poorly and was costly to run.


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## Growgerth24 (Apr 7, 2018)

Again don't want to dump that much nitrogen . That ratio Is like 9-3-6 Right? I know people love to dump boosters in their mix and dilute the ratio of nitrogen down to stupid levels, but adding that much seems counter productive. Suppose you could flush constantly to prevent the buildup.
As far high ec I never have bad salt buildup if I measure , even at the end. I do water more frequently than nute however.
As far as being arid it really shoudnt make too much of a difference. I know more arid environments supposedly requires you to feed a little more k so I do acknowledge that. And as long as you are watering more frequently because of increased evaporation in the medium you should be good yes?. Could turn down dehumidifier, think that would create better results?
Regardless my dyna plants were in the same environent as the others. So I don' think 10 points in humidity would make them better over the others.
I want to emphasize I had fine results with it, just not as good as canna or gh.
And it's really not much cheaper than canna, I get 5 liters of my one part for 80 dollars. And liter of Dg is 22, a little more concentrated I will give you that. We are talking suchhh a small difference in price.


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## homebrewer (Apr 7, 2018)

Growgerth24 said:


> Again don't want to dump that much nitrogen . That ratio Is like 9-3-6 Right? I know people love to dump boosters in their mix and dilute the ratio of nitrogen down to stupid levels, but adding that much seems counter productive. Suppose you could flush constantly to prevent the buildup.
> As far high ec I never have bad salt buildup if I measure , even at the end. I do water more frequently than nute however.
> As far as being arid it really shoudnt make too much of a difference. I know more arid environments supposedly requires you to feed a little more k so I do acknowledge that. And as long as you are watering more frequently because of increased evaporation in the medium you should be good yes?. Could turn down dehumidifier, think that would create better results?


I would definitely turn down your dehumidifier. Shoot for 45-50%. 

In regards to a 3-1-2 NPK ratio being too much nitrogen, that's nonsense. Nitrogen is the most important element to these plants. Again, hydro and promix are different, but you need to feed enough to support healthy foliage. If all your leaves aren't soft, green, and intact until harvest then you could be doing better. It's OK to have some color change at harvest as you taper down he EC a little but that NPK balance is damn near ideal. Just don't overfeed.


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## Northernmich (Apr 8, 2018)

I did a soil test for lucas and N was low in flower p and k were fine Plants must use that stuff in flower more than people think. Just my opinion. it was a bit low in FP also


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## Northernmich (Apr 8, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> In promix I would not be running combos of foliage pro and bloom


 why would this be? also I do get the clumping of the dyna products.. I put them in 1 oz containers to limit this.


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## blowincherrypie (Apr 8, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> I think your EC is high and your room is a little arid. In promix I would not be running combos of foliage pro and bloom. High P formulas in promix are garbage. High K formulas are OK as long as it's in balance with everything else. So essentially I think you have some grower errors and are choosing to blame the food.
> 
> Yes, nutrient uptake is different in hydro.
> 
> Foliage pro from start to finish in promix below. It's not about the brand though, it's about the minerals and any brand or bottle that is supplying the elements in the ratios that plants like will do fantastic. But nutrients are only like the 3rd most importing thing in cultivation. If your herb sucks then you cannot blame the food. You can blame environmental stresses, that'll kill quality right quick. AN sucks but if you read this thread you'd see that my testers could not tell the difference between the AN and DG grown flowers. AN just happened to yield poorly and was costly to run.


nice buds bruh


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## Growgerth24 (Apr 8, 2018)

HB I am going to Do a side by side of FP/ and my current regimine in the coming weeks, and I will trust you on this one. I am curious about running it through. Il try to keep all variables consistent. My biggest concern is not just the nitrogen levels ,but the fact it is ammonical nitrogen. Is my concern unfounded?

Northnermich thx for the info on Lucas. There is a formula with GH called " the useless formula" that uses some grow, I only know a friend that has tried it and he loved his results. I wonder if that would be any better.

Never realized a little less humidity could be detrimental, it never seemed to mattered, just always assumed be proactive about things like mold. I will tick it up a little bit though.


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## DXking (Apr 8, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> Usually the recommendations on plant food bottles are way too strong.


Hey Homebrewer

Can't tell you how much you have helped me with the DG and Promix advice and overall grow tips. Believe I've read about everything you've posted, some post many times.

One thing I'm still unclear on - ppm vs. frequency of watering. Using Promix BX in a 4 GL container and well water at 5-10 ppm. If I water once every 5 days (using the "light container" method) at say 5 ml/GL of FP, 1.5 ml of Protek (total 275-300 ppm) is that the equivalent of 1 ml and .3 ml every day ? 

I use LEDs with plenty of PPFD, but they don't have the radiant heat that HIDs have, contributes to slow drying. Temps run 78 down to 70, humidity 45-55%

BTW - Girls look great, never better, simpler or cheaper.


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## homebrewer (Apr 8, 2018)

Northernmich said:


> why would this be? also I do get the clumping of the dyna products.. I put them in 1 oz containers to limit this.


Because when growing in promix/coco/soil you don't need a lot of phosphorus.


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## homebrewer (Apr 8, 2018)

DXking said:


> Hey Homebrewer
> 
> Can't tell you how much you have helped me with the DG and Promix advice and overall grow tips. Believe I've read about everything you've posted, some post many times.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's how I've always looked at it. If you feed more frequently then you'd need to lower the EC of your mix. Less frequently and you'd need a higher EC mix. Generally speaking of course. If I have a bigger plant than normal that's drinking everyday then I'll consciously cut the mix in half because I feed at every watering.


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## DXking (Apr 8, 2018)

Hey HB

Thanks so much for the reply. After lurking for years, I'm shooting the questions out !

Is there anything wrong with container size/environment that only needs watering every 5-7 days ?

I have heard it said the "if your plant needs watering in less than 1 week, the container is too small" I bet that's an oversimplification, but is it better to have shorter watering cycles - better growth/yield ?


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## homebrewer (Apr 8, 2018)

Growgerth24 said:


> HB I am going to Do a side by side of FP/ and my current regimine in the coming weeks, and I will trust you on this one. I am curious about running it through. Il try to keep all variables consistent. My biggest concern is not just the nitrogen levels ,but the fact it is ammonical nitrogen. Is my concern unfounded?
> 
> Northnermich thx for the info on Lucas. There is a formula with GH called " the useless formula" that uses some grow, I only know a friend that has tried it and he loved his results. I wonder if that would be any better.
> 
> Never realized a little less humidity could be detrimental, it never seemed to mattered, just always assumed be proactive about things like mold. I will tick it up a little bit though.


I'd try to run your FP test at 0.5 EC or so but it also depends on many things. FP does have a decent does of nitrogen so feeding too much can make things toxic eventually. 

In regards to the nitrate and ammonical split, it should not be an 'issue' if you feed correctly.


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## homebrewer (Apr 8, 2018)

DXking said:


> Hey HB
> 
> Thanks so much for the reply. After lurking for years, I'm shooting the questions out !
> 
> ...


I put a promix mix together that needs to be watered about every other day. Some people in coco need to water 2x day. I don't think there is a rule of thumb to follow but in general I think you get higher performance when you water more often. 5-7 days is a long time between waterings, IMO. I'm sure there are organic guys that may water once every 5 days but those mixes normally hold water and already have the food mixed in. It's a different beast.


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## DXking (Apr 8, 2018)

Thanks again, HB. I may try Promix HP next time to shorten the watering cycle here...

BTW, I believe your advice on continuing N during flowering (FP all the way) Is responsible for the biggest improvement here. The plants are well into flowering (some 3/4 thru) and are thick, lush green and throwing pistils like never before. Previous runs with various Grow, Bloom and host of shit concoctions that severely limited N during flowering put the brakes on vigor and resulted in some scraggly mothers at harvest.

A thousand thanks, HB !

Back to the hole...

DXking


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## maianhjvb (Apr 8, 2018)

Assuming I was _only_ using base nutrients for this entire grow and assuming the same feeding levels and flowering period, DynaGro would cost $14.09 for the entire flowering cycle versus Connoisseur A&B which would cost $32.17. The $18 difference per flowering period could easily be negated should Connoisseur be the superior yielding fertilizer. We shall see.


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## BTzGrow (Apr 12, 2018)

Good Day all, just signed into RIU and found you via my brother who got here before me. Wow! three times as many pages to catch up on here vs the GH thread. I'm a Dyna-Grow user on this my first grow. Looks like I have a bit of reading to catch up but will chime in once I'm up to speed. Glad to find you and this thread.


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## Northernmich (Apr 15, 2018)

Nitrogen question .. Using just FP and silica Did a soil test promix mixed with a little ff happy frog and perlite results = N low P sufficient K Sufficient this was 4 weeks into flower Veg plants soil test came back NPK all sufficient.. What causes the plant to use so much N during flower time? seems most ferts cut the n during flower but the little tablet test i used says they use that N fast and need it into flower.


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## homebrewer (Apr 16, 2018)

Northernmich said:


> Nitrogen question .. Using just FP and silica Did a soil test promix mixed with a little ff happy frog and perlite results = N low P sufficient K Sufficient this was 4 weeks into flower Veg plants soil test came back NPK all sufficient.. What causes the plant to use so much N during flower time? seems most ferts cut the n during flower but the little tablet test i used says they use that N fast and need it into flower.


Nitrogen is needed for growth and as we all know these plants put on a lot of weight during flower. It's a little known secret in this community that cutting back N in flower is a horrible idea when growing in containers. I'm surprised that you were low using FP. What EC are you feeding at and how often?


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## Northernmich (Apr 17, 2018)

Using as what the bottle states 1/4 teaspoon pro tek 1/4 teaspoon of fp ph of 6.5 to 6.8 ro water ec 0.3 fed every water.


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## homebrewer (Apr 17, 2018)

Northernmich said:


> Using as what the bottle states 1/4 teaspoon pro tek 1/4 teaspoon of fp ph of 6.5 to 6.8 ro water ec 0.3 fed every water.


How'd your leaves look? Do you get yellowing or any leaf drop? Leaf drop can also be from moisture stress.


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## Northernmich (Apr 18, 2018)

early yellowing.


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## homebrewer (Apr 18, 2018)

Northernmich said:


> early yellowing.


I think you could safely inch up your feeding levels to 0.5 EC and play it from there. I'd rather be on the light side than the irreversible heavy side.


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## Northernmich (Apr 21, 2018)

As for EC counts why do so many web sites and nutrient sellers say the proper EC as much as 2.0 for flower?


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## homebrewer (Apr 22, 2018)

Northernmich said:


> As for EC counts why do so many web sites and nutrient sellers say the proper EC as much as 2.0 for flower?


Part of me thinks that these plant food companies want us to use larger doses so we have to buy more of their product more frequently. The reality is that feeding at those levels will really hurt the quality of the final product and growers are quick to blame the plant food when in reality it was grower error. Growers should know better than to feed that high regardless of whether it's 'recommended' by the manufacturer.


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## blowincherrypie (Apr 22, 2018)

maianhjvb said:


> Assuming I was _only_ using base nutrients for this entire grow and assuming the same feeding levels and flowering period, DynaGro would cost $14.09 for the entire flowering cycle versus Connoisseur A&B which would cost $32.17. The $18 difference per flowering period could easily be negated should Connoisseur be the superior yielding fertilizer. We shall see.


You need final flush and the rest of the cartoon bottles to maximize your yield and be a master grower.. just sayin.

more expensive doesn't always mean best.. think about it.

good bag seed vs a $500 seed. I promise the $500 seed will not be 500x better


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## Wilksey (Apr 22, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> plant food


What kind of ratio are you running for flower HB? Is it like 3 parts bloom to 1 part foilage pro, or is it almost half and half?


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## homebrewer (Apr 22, 2018)

Wilksey said:


> What kind of ratio are you running for flower HB? Is it like 3 parts bloom to 1 part foilage pro, or is it almost half and half?


Hydro or soilless?


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## Wilksey (Apr 23, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> Hydro or soilless?


Soiless. I'm in coco. I'm thinking 3 parts bloom to 1 part foilage pro, how close does that sound to your ratio?


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## homebrewer (Apr 24, 2018)

Wilksey said:


> Soiless. I'm in coco. I'm thinking 3 parts bloom to 1 part foilage pro, how close does that sound to your ratio?


I'd just use straight foliage pro. The 2-part mixture is best for true hydro.


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## Wilksey (Apr 24, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> I'd just use straight foliage pro. The 2-part mixture is best for true hydro.


Will do.

Thanks, dude, positive waves to you and yours....and some bud pr0n...everybody loves bud pr0n.


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## homebrewer (Apr 25, 2018)

That's a healthy plant right there. What are you feeding her?


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## Wilksey (Apr 25, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> That's a healthy plant right there. What are you feeding her?


Foilage pro and protekt.

I did a couple of dynagro bloom feedings around week 5 when the flowers were starting to get a decent size, but then I started to get some yellowing, so now I'm just going to run the foilage pro all the way through.

[more blatant bud pr0n]


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## Z3r0Z3r0 (Apr 25, 2018)

So what was your final result? Dyna gro? Or is it worth it to buy the expensive stuff?


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## homebrewer (Apr 25, 2018)

Z3r0Z3r0 said:


> So what was your final result? Dyna gro? Or is it worth it to buy the expensive stuff?


The expensive stuff is usually watered down making it doubly expensive.


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## Z3r0Z3r0 (Apr 26, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> The expensive stuff is usually watered down making it doubly expensive.


lol ok but did the buds taste better or have better yield? Im curious due to the organic vs salt based dyna


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## homebrewer (Apr 26, 2018)

Z3r0Z3r0 said:


> lol ok but did the buds taste better or have better yield? Im curious due to the organic vs salt based dyna


Check out page 25 of this thread, there is a full write up.


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## Z3r0Z3r0 (May 5, 2018)

Heh so leafy buds? Yeah thas not good, meh stick to dyna grow.


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## Northernmich (May 8, 2018)

Wilksey said:


> Foilage pro and protekt.
> 
> I did a couple of dynagro bloom feedings around week 5 when the flowers were starting to get a decent size, but then I started to get some yellowing, so now I'm just going to run the foilage pro all the way through.
> 
> ...


what was the lighting and ppm or ec in flower ? thanks


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## Wilksey (May 8, 2018)

Northernmich said:


> what was the lighting and ppm or ec in flower ? thanks


Light: 600w HPS
PPM: Max of 5-600ppm using a Hanna ph/ppm pen 

The ppm's changed throughout the grow, as I adjusted them based on the response I got from the plants. I started off with 1ml of foilage pro per gallon of water during the seedling stage, and worked them up to about 4ml per gallon in flower. These are grown in 2.5 gal fabric pots, and they ended up being a little over 2 feet tall after being topped, and flipped to 12/12 after a 5 week veg period from seed.


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## Northernmich (May 8, 2018)

Great Job. Thanks for posting.


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## Wilksey (May 9, 2018)

Northernmich said:


> Great Job. Thanks for posting.


YW

I think it's important to dispel as much stoner myth as possible about growing, and dudes like HB, and these kind of threads, saved me time and money over the years by demonstrating that you don't need 9 bottles of shit to grow some good stash for yourself.

I smoke a bowl at every harvest for all the growers in the community that challenge and fight all the marketing bullshit and ignorance that exists about weed growing. While they seem outnumbered by shills and idiots, there truly are a small cadre of growers that know their shit, and are not only willing to share it, but demonstrate it as well.


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## homebrewer (May 10, 2018)

Wilksey said:


> YW
> 
> I think it's important to dispel as much stoner myth as possible about growing, and dudes like HB, and these kind of threads, saved me time and money over the years by demonstrating that you don't need 9 bottles of shit to grow some good stash for yourself.
> 
> I smoke a bowl at every harvest for all the growers in the community that challenge and fight all the marketing bullshit and ignorance that exists about weed growing. While they seem outnumbered by shills and idiots, there truly are a small cadre of growers that know their shit, and are not only willing to share it, but demonstrate it as well.


I personally don't care how people spend their money but it does irk me when people think their 'premium' plant food grows better herb. I've even heard that nonsense at the hydro store. Don't get me wrong, the plant food matters, it's the brand that doesn't.


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## XxCashedxOutxX (Jun 4, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> I personally don't care how people spend their money but it does irk me when people think their 'premium' plant food grows better herb. I've even heard that nonsense at the hydro store. Don't get me wrong, the plant food matters, it's the brand that doesn't.


I agree with you Uncle Rico. When you spend a ton of money on nutrients you are just paying for the brand name. Hell if you wanted to you could use the raw salts and do it yourself. When it comes down to it they're all nutrients. I really do like the complete formula of Foliage Pro. I don't care for the bloom so much the high phosphorus seems to always burn my plants and cause lockouts. Thank you for sharing all your knowledge with us. You are a legend on this forum as far as I am concerned.


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## Northernmich (Jun 21, 2018)

Well the results are in I am impressed thank you Homebrew for this thread.  I started out 57 days veg 1 ml foliage pro 1ml silica then when the plants got bigger 2 ml fp 1ml silica one 400 watt mh 12 plants. Flower room 3 ml fp one ml silica then the last 4 weeks 4 ml fp all ph to 6.5 per gallon . I did use recharge once a week in all the plants one gallon divided up among all Also used mag pro in the flower room maybe twice a week a gallon divided up among 12 plants 4/ 600 watt hps some snow storm and flavor luscious. Strains heavy weight seeds dream machine left . Right Barnys Farm Sweet tooth. Grown in 80% pro mix and some other soils mixed in,


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## homebrewer (Jul 9, 2018)

Northernmich said:


> Well the results are in I am impressed thank you Homebrew for this thread. I started out 57 days veg 1 ml foliage pro 1ml silica then when the plants got bigger 2 ml fp 1ml silica one 400 watt mh 12 plants. Flower room 3 ml fp one ml silica then the last 4 weeks 4 ml fp all ph to 6.5 per gallon . I did use recharge once a week in all the plants one gallon divided up among all Also used mag pro in the flower room maybe twice a week a gallon divided up among 12 plants 4/ 600 watt hps some snow storm and flavor luscious. Strains heavy weight seeds dream machine left . Right Barnys Farm Sweet tooth. Grown in 80% pro mix and some other soils mixed in,


Picture of health right there! And that's the goal. In my experience, healthy plants at harvest equals better yields and superior smoke.


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## Northernmich (Jul 11, 2018)

I will be posting some GG4 and AK47 results soon
stay tuned.


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## urbanmedgrower (Jul 26, 2018)

holy crap...3 days reading 104 pages top to bottom...1st of all thank you homebrewer your info is very appreciated, as is all of you guys posts, ty. That being said what brought me here was 2 fold. The hate of many bottles to feed my plants and the constant yellowing of my plants leaves in flower. I will now be trying foliage pro and protekt in promix all the way through! Love the idea of 2-3 bottles max! Awesome thread.


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## Northernmich (Aug 31, 2018)

Incredible Bulk left BF Lsd right same set up nutes &lights as photos above.


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## homebrewer (Aug 31, 2018)

Northernmich said:


> Incredible Bulk left BF Lsd right same set up nutes &lights as photos above.


Those are perfect. Well done!


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## homebrewer (Sep 12, 2018)

Black Diesel at harvest yesterday...


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## XxCashedxOutxX (Sep 13, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> Black Diesel at harvest yesterday...


Beautiful


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## topher73 (Sep 16, 2018)

I have used Dyna gro now 2 runs. I swear the one gallon I have of bloom is watered down mad style. I went by their feed chart, I know it is a guideline, but the 5 mills per gallon is bs if you were trying to target their chart. It is more like 15 mills a gallon and that is using protek and their calmag. I'm not dissing it their products as it is possible I got a bad gallon. As for AN. What a joke people buying 10 bottles with pretty labels super over priced. I will say GH Flora series isn't that bad for budget minded a little salty but decent.


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## thenotsoesoteric (Sep 16, 2018)

This thread and a few other @homebrewer started years ago helped point me in the right direction, lower ppms!

Regardless of the nutrient line you really don't need much nutrients at all. Cheers and nice to see you're still around HB


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## topher73 (Sep 17, 2018)

thenotsoesoteric said:


> This thread and a few other @homebrewer started years ago helped point me in the right direction, lower ppms!
> 
> Regardless of the nutrient line you really don't need much nutrients at all. Cheers and nice to see you're still around HB


Hope that my post didn't come off wrong HB was the one who turned me on to Dyna gro. You do need more ferts when your leaves yellow out from not enough nitrogen. I also run co2 so that played a factor. peace.


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## homebrewer (Sep 17, 2018)

topher73 said:


> I have used Dyna gro now 2 runs. I swear the one gallon I have of bloom is watered down mad style. I went by their feed chart, I know it is a guideline, but the 5 mills per gallon is bs if you were trying to target their chart. It is more like 15 mills a gallon and that is using protek and their calmag. I'm not dissing it their products as it is possible I got a bad gallon. As for AN. What a joke people buying 10 bottles with pretty labels super over priced. I will say GH Flora series isn't that bad for budget minded a little salty but decent.


What are you growing in? Coco, peat, hydro?


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## topher73 (Sep 17, 2018)

This round I am growing in HPF with 30 percent perlite. I honestly think the seller on ebay sent me a gallon that was expired. I always store my ferts in cool dark place, but I noticed the gallon of grow separated I had to filter it and use my pestle n mortar to grind up the chunks of ferts in the bottom then add them back a bit at a time until it dissolved. I think this round I was using co2 and forgot about them needing more food so I under feed them. They look good still and only have 3 weeks left to go. I got a DWRC system I am going to run after this harvest. I am guessing the fact I haven't used co2 in years and I really don't like growing in soil except to keep mothers. I even ask the local hydro shop if he had heard of that and he said it happened to one of his customers.


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## homebrewer (Sep 17, 2018)

topher73 said:


> This round I am growing in HPF with 30 percent perlite. I honestly think the seller on ebay sent me a gallon that was expired. I always store my ferts in cool dark place, but I noticed the gallon of grow separated I had to filter it and use my pestle n mortar to grind up the chunks of ferts in the bottom then add them back a bit at a time until it dissolved. I think this round I was using co2 and forgot about them needing more food so I under feed them. They look good still and only have 3 weeks left to go. I got a DWRC system I am going to run after this harvest. I am guessing the fact I haven't used co2 in years and I really don't like growing in soil except to keep mothers. I even ask the local hydro shop if he had heard of that and he said it happened to one of his customers.


I'm not trying to make an example out of you but I think your comments are why there is so much confusion out there in the plant food market. So let me get this straight, you're not growing in hydro but you're using Bloom during flower? That's your first mistake. Your next mistake is thinking you need more food because of your N deficiency. Are you're not using a TDS meter? 15mls/gal of bloom is like 2.5 EC. Your original feeding levels were plenty strong and when issues popped up your instinct should have been to switch to Grow for a larger dose of N, not add more bloom. Your next mistake is that you're using calmag. DG plant foods already contain calcium and magnesium, why are you adding more? 

Unless you're in true hydro, you should not be using bloom. I've said that at least 100 times. Switch to grow at their suggested maintenance rate from here on out. 

That plant above was grown in peat, fed about 0.5EC, and got foliage pro from start to finish. So was the blue dream below:


----------



## Northernmich (Sep 17, 2018)

You have to dial it in 2 ml in veg and I use 4 mil of fp per gallon in flower the same amount of Mag Pro once a week in bloom .. my stuff is turning out perfect.


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## topher73 (Sep 17, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> I'm not trying to make an example out of you but I think your comments are why there is so much confusion out there in the plant food market. So let me get this straight, you're not growing in hydro but you're using Bloom during flower? That's your first mistake. Your next mistake is thinking you need more food because of your N deficiency. Are you're not using a TDS meter? 15mls/gal of bloom is like 2.5 EC. Your original feeding levels were plenty strong and when issues popped up your instinct should have been to switch to Grow for a larger dose of N, not add more bloom. Your next mistake is that you're using calmag. DG plant foods already contain calcium and magnesium, why are you adding more?
> 
> Unless you're in true hydro, you should not be using bloom. I've said that at least 100 times. Switch to grow at their suggested maintenance rate from here on out.
> 
> That plant above was grown in peat, fed about 0.5EC, and got foliage pro from start to finish. So was the blue dream below:


Thank you for the advice. I guess I was way off. I did add some grow one feeding as I thought the nitrogen was too low. I have a blue labs guardian and calibrate it once every 2 weeks. I guess I was so use to using GH flora series like in the 90s in hydro and thought DG worked kinda the same way. I did use DG in coco and it came out great and used the calmag protek and bloom, but coco is basically hydro if you know what I mean. Man thanks bro. Much respect!!!


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## thenotsoesoteric (Sep 17, 2018)

topher73 said:


> Hope that my post didn't come off wrong HB was the one who turned me on to Dyna gro. You do need more ferts when your leaves yellow out from not enough nitrogen. I also run co2 so that played a factor. peace.


Sorry, I was just randomly commenting I wasn't referring to your situation. Sorry for the confusion.


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## homebrewer (Sep 17, 2018)

topher73 said:


> Thank you for the advice. I guess I was way off. I did add some grow one feeding as I thought the nitrogen was too low. I have a blue labs guardian and calibrate it once every 2 weeks. I guess I was so use to using GH flora series like in the 90s in hydro and thought DG worked kinda the same way. I did use DG in coco and it came out great and used the calmag protek and bloom, but coco is basically hydro if you know what I mean. Man thanks bro. Much respect!!!


Dude, I screwed up soooo many plants for a long time because I was using bloom foods in buckets. I think it's common knowledge now, maybe I'm wrong, but pretty much any company's veg formula will kill it in coco/peat/dirt from start to finish. It's stupid simple as long as it's complete. It's crazy how simple we can make it and get really nice results. Hope your plants turn around!


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## pinner420 (Sep 18, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> Dude, I screwed up soooo many plants for a long time because I was using bloom foods in buckets. I think it's common knowledge now, maybe I'm wrong, but pretty much any company's veg formula will kill it in coco/peat/dirt from start to finish. It's stupid simple as long as it's complete. It's crazy how simple we can make it and get really nice results. Hope your plants turn around!


I'm running cutting edge... pretty much the same as gh.. so the extra amonical nitrogen keeps them healthier and happier for longer? Great thread by the way..


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## homebrewer (Sep 18, 2018)

pinner420 said:


> I'm running cutting edge... pretty much the same as gh.. so the extra amonical nitrogen keeps them healthier and happier for longer? Great thread by the way..


I think the use of ammoniacal nitrogen is to balance the pH. Nitrate N will increase the pH over time and I believe ammoniacal lowers it?


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## pinner420 (Sep 18, 2018)

I'll mix the next 50 gallon at the old 3.2.1 strategy couple guys seen doing that are killing it.. have been tuning Lucas and or head formula for a bit, been thinking about this for a minute.... Thanks for the tip...


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## urbanmedgrower (Sep 18, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> I'm not trying to make an example out of you but I think your comments are why there is so much confusion out there in the plant food market. So let me get this straight, you're not growing in hydro but you're using Bloom during flower? That's your first mistake. Your next mistake is thinking you need more food because of your N deficiency. Are you're not using a TDS meter? 15mls/gal of bloom is like 2.5 EC. Your original feeding levels were plenty strong and when issues popped up your instinct should have been to switch to Grow for a larger dose of N, not add more bloom. Your next mistake is that you're using calmag. DG plant foods already contain calcium and magnesium, why are you adding more?
> 
> Unless you're in true hydro, you should not be using bloom. I've said that at least 100 times. Switch to grow at their suggested maintenance rate from here on out.
> 
> That plant above was grown in peat, fed about 0.5EC, and got foliage pro from start to finish. So was the blue dream below:


why would a hydro system need a blo


homebrewer said:


> Dude, I screwed up soooo many plants for a long time because I was using bloom foods in buckets. I think it's common knowledge now, maybe I'm wrong, but pretty much any company's veg formula will kill it in coco/peat/dirt from start to finish. It's stupid simple as long as it's complete. It's crazy how simple we can make it and get really nice results. Hope your plants turn around!





homebrewer said:


> Dude, I screwed up soooo many plants for a long time because I was using bloom foods in buckets. I think it's common knowledge now, maybe I'm wrong, but pretty much any company's veg formula will kill it in coco/peat/dirt from start to finish. It's stupid simple as long as it's complete. It's crazy how simple we can make it and get really nice results. Hope your plants turn around!


om formula?


homebrewer said:


> Dude, I screwed up soooo many plants for a long time because I was using bloom foods in buckets. I think it's common knowledge now, maybe I'm wrong, but pretty much any company's veg formula will kill it in coco/peat/dirt from start to finish. It's stupid simple as long as it's complete. It's crazy how simple we can make it and get really nice results. Hope your plants turn around!


Can someone please explain to me why a hydro system would need a bloom formula...and why not in soil? thx


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## homebrewer (Sep 19, 2018)

urbanmedgrower said:


> why would a hydro system need a bloom formula?
> 
> Can someone please explain to me why a hydro system would need a bloom formula...and why not in soil? thx


The elemental uptake seems to be different between hydro and container gardening - meaning you can't feed your plants the same formula in both ways of growing and get the same results. Bloom works well in hydro during flowering but it will turn plants yellow if used in coco/peat/dirt. In coco/peat/dirt I'd use a veg formula from start to finish. If a veg formula is used from start to finish in hydro the resulting plants will be overly leafy and branchy with lower yields.


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## urbanmedgrower (Sep 20, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> The elemental uptake seems to be different between hydro and container gardening - meaning you can't feed your plants the same formula in both ways of growing and get the same results. Bloom works well in hydro during flowering but it will turn plants yellow if used in coco/peat/dirt. In coco/peat/dirt I'd use a veg formula from start to finish. If a veg formula is used from start to finish in hydro the resulting plants will be overly leafy and branchy with lower yields.


yes i understand...but why? why would hydro need a bloom and not dirt? what is the science behind it? cause you say "seems to be diff." is all this anecdotal?


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## pinner420 (Sep 20, 2018)

urbanmedgrower said:


> yes i understand...but why? why would hydro need a bloom and not dirt? what is the science behind it? cause you say "seems to be diff." is all this anecdotal?


Pg 103


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## homebrewer (Sep 20, 2018)

urbanmedgrower said:


> yes i understand...but why? why would hydro need a bloom and not dirt? what is the science behind it? cause you say "seems to be diff." *is all this anecdotal?*


No, it's not anecdotal as I have sent samples out for analysis. I'd post the exact numbers but I paid $200 for those tests. I could post those numbers but someone is going to have to pay me first


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## urbanmedgrower (Sep 20, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> No, it's not anecdotal as I have sent samples out for analysis. I'd post the exact numbers but I paid $200 for those tests. I could post those numbers but someone is going to have to pay me first


lol pay you


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## urbanmedgrower (Sep 20, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> No, it's not anecdotal as I have sent samples out for analysis. I'd post the exact numbers but I paid $200 for those tests. I could post those numbers but someone is going to have to pay me first


so dirt has potassium, or holds it better? i dont get it sorry.


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## toomp (Sep 20, 2018)

urbanmedgrower said:


> so dirt has potassium, or holds it better? i dont get it sorry.


I have used soil for about a year no new amendment and only needed to feed because N was needed. Even reused soil with dynagro in it and people swear chems kill soil life.
PK moves slow.
Unfortunately you appear to want proof I didn't get a soil test done after. Its done before. But I do know the soil had too much pk to begin with.


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## homebrewer (Sep 20, 2018)

urbanmedgrower said:


> lol pay you


I wish you could while remaining anonymous.


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## urbanmedgrower (Sep 20, 2018)

toomp said:


> I have used soil for about a year no new amendment and only needed to feed because N was needed. Even reused soil with dynagro in it and people swear chems kill soil life.
> PK moves slow.
> Unfortunately you appear to want proof I didn't get a soil test done after. Its done before. But I do know the soil had too much pk to begin with.


ok he said dirt/peat/coco... so what, these mediums have potassium already in them? how would hydro not hold potassium? Im not saying its bs (hey im going on a full run of just dg fp and silica) but i NEED to know why. why would promix hp not need potassium as much as hydro...does it hold potassium better then hydro? I know flushing is bs and can prove it WITH SCIENCE....lol but just dont understand why peat will need less pk or less potassium. And please dont say "the lab results..." cause that just means you cant explain it either.


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## GrowRijt (Sep 20, 2018)

Wow. Kinda stoked this thread popped up again. First time I went through it was 2014 ish. HB gets my props. I took his effort and testing and made my own adjustments. Tested myself within the limits set here and it gave me a solid foundation to learn. I’m cheap and lazy and these are my good traits. Lol. I have run foliage pro at 1ml per gallon with the silica at 1ml start to finish. Not a single deficiency. None. I’ve gone up since but I really wanted to see how little I could get away with. I now read the plants better, I’ve added gp massive to bloom cycles and it’s a good mix for me using promix. If you want to act like a mad scientist mixing 10 bottles do your thing.


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## toomp (Sep 20, 2018)

urbanmedgrower said:


> ok he said dirt/peat/coco... so what, these mediums have potassium already in them? how would hydro not hold potassium? Im not saying its bs (hey im going on a full run of just dg fp and silica) but i NEED to know why. why would promix hp not need potassium as much as hydro...does it hold potassium better then hydro? I know flushing is bs and can prove it WITH SCIENCE....lol but just dont understand why peat will need less pk or less potassium. And please dont say "the lab results..." cause that just means you cant explain it either.


 yes soil will hold potassium just like phosphorus.

"In general, the role of phosphorus and *potassium* in the plant is maintenance. Both are highly concentrated in new growth and are responsible for keeping the system operating smoothly. Both phosphorus and *potassium* are immobile in the *soil*, meaning they don't *move* readily with water"

Potassium doesn't move through the soil very fast. I can't speak for hydroponics it would be a guess of easier absorbtion with roots sitting in solution but I'm not a hydro guy. Plenty here though.

But like I said man the information is here but I didn't test after reusing so I can't read off what was left.


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## urbanmedgrower (Sep 21, 2018)

thanks guys you are are very valuable information, it has made understand a lot of things, if any of you are in the Quebec City area ever, hit me up.


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## homebrewer (Sep 21, 2018)

Another important tidbit_ for hydro_ is that N seems readily available at all times. What I mean by that is you don't need a lot of N in hydro to keep the plants green. In peat/dirt/coco the availability seems different, N doesn't seem as readily available, meaning a grow/veg formula is required for best results.


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## kaoss_11 (Sep 21, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> Another important tidbit_ for hydro_ is that N seems readily available at all times. What I mean by that is you don't need a lot of N in hydro to keep the plants green. In peat/dirt/coco the availability seems different, N doesn't seem as readily available, meaning a grow/veg formula is required for best results.


We switched from FP to Jacks then Megacrop.

Issue I had with FP was it is expensive in comparison to the other 2 when your purchasing 5 gallons at a time. The 25lb bags is obviously the bang for buck. 
We are in hydro with clay pebbles, water chillers at 68f, air diffusers and microbes in the reservoirs. So with FP you are correct the N is very available in true hydro however the magnesium they provide is very low. We have found that in hydro our plants need more mag and sulfur. I know that to be true based off when we switched to jacks. Plants just ran better.Most run 3-2-1 with jacks where we ran the recommend dosage of 3.6 on jacks and 2.4 CaNi with stellar results. 

We also ran bloom and I never truly liked the results. I think it pumps the plant with too much phosphorus and cant keep your plants green and no matter how you flush the ash will be black because of that. Same thing with magpro, too much phosphorus and with mag pro its really just an expensive Epsom Salt with a NPK. Just purchase a 12lb bag of epsom salt and supplement with your base. We have tried bloom, FP, and grow, all are low on sulfur and mag. and we would run into slight issues nothing major. I loved dynagrow products and I do belive they are good I just think their is better out there for the people. 

The comparison would be dynagro product vs megacrop being mc is a all in one as well.


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## homebrewer (Sep 21, 2018)

kaoss_11 said:


> We switched from FP to Jacks then Megacrop.


For veg? FP should not be used during flower in hydro.



> Issue I had with FP was it is expensive in comparison to the other 2 when your purchasing 5 gallons at a time. The 25lb bags is obviously the bang for buck.


Dry foods for the most part will be cheaper to run but the issue I have with dry foods is the time it takes for them to fully dissolve in water. I'll gladly pay a few cents more per gallon if it saves me time; time that can be used keeping things clean, trimming, keeping things organized, or living a life. Plus the weighing and premixing of dry foods is annoying and time consuming. Seriously, in terms of cost per light, the difference between what you do and what I do might amount to a Big Mac over a 2 month period. That being said, use what works for you.



> We are in hydro with clay pebbles, water chillers at 68f, air diffusers and microbes in the reservoirs. So with FP you are correct the N is very available in true hydro however the magnesium they provide is very low. We have found that in hydro our plants need more mag and sulfur.


Do you have pictures of your mag and sulfur deficient plants? What exactly were you feeding them and at what rate? I've been using DG now for 7 years and have yet to see a single deficiency when using the foods correctly. In fact, I've never seen a mag or sulfur deficiency with any food that already contains both elements - probably because the mag and sulfur needs of our plants is very low. Rank the big six elements in order of importance and those two are at the bottom. 



> We also ran bloom and I never truly liked the results. I think it pumps the plant with too much phosphorus and cant keep your plants green....


Just because we make the elements available does not mean the plants uptake them. To some extent I agree with you on yellowing plants with bloom but that depends where you're at in the flowering process. 




> ....and no matter how you flush the ash will be black because of that.


Who smokes their herb down to the ashes? lol Are you growing or buying your weed? If you're growing, 2 hits and pack a new bowl, dude. Seriously though, ash color is a function of the mineral makeup of the soil. Look it up as it pertains to cigars.


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## kaoss_11 (Sep 21, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> For veg? FP should not be used during flower in hydro.
> 
> I have one of their charts that showed FP from start to finish supplemented with Mag-pro
> 
> ...


Once again. Not knocking Dyna-gro, I was a proud supporter at one point but learned through time there are better and easier products for US. Your a hobbyist correct me if im wrong. So I believe your pain points and perspective will be different than mine. Thats not a jab at you but an obvious fact. Hell the guy growing in the corner of his basement probably thinks we are all crazy since he probably gets away with using free samples all year.


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## homebrewer (Sep 21, 2018)

kaoss_11 said:


> I have one of their charts that showed FP from start to finish supplemented with Mag-pro


Please post a link.




> Your issue is not an issue at all but more so a personal preference. Salts take no time to dissolve when mixed in warm water. Dosatron works wonders as well as mixing your salts in containers at ratios you want essentially doing what most are overpaying for from the manufacturer.


Exactly. A $300 piece of equipment for mixing salts. It's a pain in the ass to manually do it.



> 25lb bag of dry salts is 60 shipped. 5 gallon jerry can of FP was 186 dollars for us. Much more than a big mac broken down annually. Out the gate its a third less. Even more if we break down time spent and gas. I get my orders delivered.


Break it down for me please. How many grams of salts does it take to get 1 gallon of RO water to 1.0 EC? Also, DG sells 55 gallon drums of food. Are dry salts cheaper? Maybe? I'd compare apples-to-apples if I were a commercial grower.



> Size of your plants and operation im sure is different than ours and our medium is different. So comparing what youve done for however long doesnt mean anything. Your process/system worked for you for 7 years.


I've used rockwool, coco, promix, hydroton, and organic soils. What are you in? Do you think the required nutritional balance of the plants change based on the size of the plant and size of the operation?


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## homebrewer (Sep 21, 2018)

Who smokes their herb down to the ashes?



kaoss_11 said:


> Patients do. Not every smokes bowls and papers show your ash clear as day. *High phosporus will give you black ash* which like you stated is a function of mineral make up. We wont discuss this topic sense we are in agreeance.


Might want to read this in regards to 'white ash being a sign of quality': https://paynemason.com/is-white-ash-a-sign-a-of-quality/

_This myth was promoted by many of the new cigar smokers in the cigar boom of the nineteen nineties. The fact is the color of the ash has no relevance to the quality of the cigar. The color of the ash is a direct result of the composition of the soil from which the tobaccos where grown. White ash simply means that the soil from where the tobacco was grown was high in phosphorus and calcium. Dominican, Honduran and Cuban soils are generally low in phosphorous and calcium and higher in magnesium. Magnesium tends to offer a sweeter smoke, with a darker and flakier ash. In most cases, gray ash will indicate healthier tobacco. Ash that is too white or too black is generally less desirable.


A better sign of quality based on ash is how long you can get it!_


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## kaoss_11 (Sep 21, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> Please post a link.
> 
> I attached the charts. up til wk5 fp was used. My sativas would do ok with FP all the way through but still needed to be supplemented.
> 
> ...


Clay pebbles as I stated before. No the nutritional balance doesnt change but the size in volume does(H20&Salts) and stage of life. So your big mac analogy earlier would not work as you cant relate.


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## homebrewer (Sep 21, 2018)

kaoss_11 said:


> Clay pebbles as I stated before. No the nutritional balance doesnt change but the size in volume does(H20&Salts) and stage of life. So your big mac analogy earlier would not work as you cant relate.


I'm asking you for some numbers and you're not supplying them. How many grams of food does it take for you to get to 1.0 EC for whatever size res you're using? Come on, it's simple math really.


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## kaoss_11 (Sep 21, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> I'm asking you for some numbers and you're not supplying them. How many grams of food does it take for you to get to 1.0 EC for whatever size res you're using? Come on, it's simple math really.


4.5 grams


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## homebrewer (Sep 21, 2018)

kaoss_11 said:


> 4.5 grams


What product(s) are you using exactly? I don't know anyone who only uses a single dry nutrient.

But by your numbers, an entire 9 week flowering cycle using your single bag of dry plant food in my 15 gallon res would cost $3.72 at 1.0 EC. 

DG's Foliage Pro, using your 5 gallon numbers, for an entire 9 week flowering cycle in my 15 gallon res costs $6.60 at 1.0 EC. 

So like I said, the difference is the cost of a Big Mac per res. 

Now obviously the cost difference widens as the size and number of reservoirs increases but I'm still OK paying to not deal with dusty, incomplete dry foods that don't mix very well. Not to mention liquid foods are plug and play whether you're in containers or true hydro. Versatile and easy to use, baby! And pH stable as well. 

If you're approaching this 'cost of fertilizer' topic from the perspective of a commercial warehouse grower then I'd say 'no shit' dry foods are cheaper on that scale. Those folks are producing B+ quality at best though.


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## pinner420 (Sep 21, 2018)

"The best fertilizer is the shadow of the gardener!"


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## kaoss_11 (Sep 22, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> What product(s) are you using exactly? I don't know anyone who only uses a single dry nutrient.
> 
> But by your numbers, an entire 9 week flowering cycle using your single bag of dry plant food in my 15 gallon res would cost $3.72 at 1.0 EC.
> 
> ...


I cant speak on any of this as its your opinion mainly. In your 15 gal res your numbers work


homebrewer said:


> What product(s) are you using exactly? I don't know anyone who only uses a single dry nutrient.
> 
> But by your numbers, an entire 9 week flowering cycle using your single bag of dry plant food in my 15 gallon res would cost $3.72 at 1.0 EC.
> 
> ...



Im sure there are a lot of things you dont know in this world. Have you researched or used megacrop? Until you do you would not understand using a single dry nutrient. 

In your 15 gal res your amount of fertilizer used is minuscule and because of that your ok leaving money on the table. However, when your going through 500 gallons every 10 days it adds up quickly and your big mac analogy only applies to you and your scale. Your calculation doesnt include vegging for 2 months nor seedling rooms. So I am assuming now but it sounds like you have a product for veg and another for flower. I use 1 across the board with great results. The fact you stated FP cant be used in flower leaves me wondering. 

My salts are dusty however more complete in my opinion AND have more additives included and stilll comes out cheaper for any level of grower. 

Once again your grading of commercial growers or larger scale ops is only your opinion so i wont debate that. 

Back to my original point dynagro products are good however there are other products on the market that are cheaper and better period. Better being the % of elements provided at the cost your paying per gram/ml. Because MC and Jacks have higher element %s we can use less of the product furthering our savings. Case in point dynagrow has barely 2% Mg and less than 1% Sulfur where MC and jacks have 4 times as much. Dyna gro Calcium % is a joke in comparison to any product I have named. Because Nitrogen is readily available we dont run the plants hot and the foliar we spray helps in nutrient uptake.


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## homebrewer (Sep 22, 2018)

kaoss_11 said:


> I cant speak on any of this as its your opinion mainly. In your 15 gal res your numbers work
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Commercial grows produce bunk weed, period. I don't care what your costs are, your weed cannot compete with boutique growers and that's what my circle is focused on - producing_ the best herb possible_. 

I'm familiar with MC, I almost ordered a free bag but a guy I know who was testing it didn't like the mix of 'sand and the balls' - to quote him. He went back to DG. And at 9.7-5.5-14, that's fairly solid for container gardening but less than ideal for hydro, in my experience.

Also, if you'd like to shill your dry food, you're in the wrong place. This is the Grow Journal section.


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## kaoss_11 (Sep 22, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> Commercial grows produce bunk weed, period. I don't care what your costs are, your weed cannot compete with boutique growers and that's what my circle is focused on - producing_ the best herb possible_.
> 
> I'm familiar with MC, I almost ordered a free bag but a guy I know who was testing it didn't like the mix of 'sand and the balls' - to quote him. He went back to DG. And at 9.7-5.5-14, that's fairly solid for container gardening but less than ideal for hydro, in my experience.
> 
> Also, if you'd like to shill your dry food, you're in the wrong place. This is the Grow Journal section.


Once again I wont argue your opinion on whos better. THC & CBD numbers are whatever they are regardless. All organic IPM program, no residuals, chemicals or toxins in any of our products. Test results to back my claims. This discussion is nor ever was about what your circle of buddies do or believe. 

Unless you have personally ran a product then its hearsay as far as Im concerned. First person experience is what matters not the homies uncles baby mommas little brothers third cousin down at the hydro store. Jacks is recognized in the fertilizer industry and have a superb reputation in the community. Their ratio for jacks hydroponic is 20-12-26 and MC uses 9.7-5.5-14. Their ratios are a difference of Milligrams so how is either less than ideal for hydro when Jacks product is called Jacks Hydroponic. Straight from their website This formula was designed as a base foundation for hydroponic growing.
Please elaborate because I am confused on the point you made and I may learn something I didnt prior. 

Shill - an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others. 

Nice try. Dont try to pull that bullshit. I am sharing information and my experience on dyna, jacks, and MC. There are better options and solutions thats all. I will let you be to your journal.


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## kaoss_11 (Sep 22, 2018)

A RECIPE FOR HYDROPONIC SUCCESS

My research is usually scholarly publications and readings. 

http://www.greenhouse.cornell.edu/crops/factsheets/hydroponic-recipes.pdf


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## homebrewer (Sep 23, 2018)

kaoss_11 said:


> Once again I wont argue your opinion on whos better. THC & CBD numbers are whatever they are regardless. All organic IPM program, no residuals, chemicals or toxins in any of our products. Test results to back my claims. This discussion is nor ever was about what your circle of buddies do or believe. .


It's not an opinion. It's a fact that commercial growers cannot compete with boutique cannabis. Between the lack of cure, poor trimming, and careless handling, the end user gets B+ herb at best. Plus when was the last time any of you money-grubbing whores grew a 120 day sativa? Nah, it's bland hybrids at best for the masses. I get it, ya gotta pay the bills. 

And this discussion was about fertilizer price and if you're running a commercial op why are you here? It's like a pro-brewer popping into a homebrewing forum and busting balls for not buying grain by that palate. I'd much rather have 2 gallons of liquid fertilizer sitting around than a half dozen bags of dusty dry salts that I have to measure out in different amounts based on whether I'm feeding promix or hydro plants. 

And price isn't the end-all-be-all of fertilizer choice. Is it pH stable? Is it easy to use and complete? Is it versatile? A _single_ bag of dry salts CANNOT excel in containers AND in hydro. It's either one or the other, or neither. 



> Unless you have personally ran a product then its hearsay as far as Im concerned. First person experience is what matters not the homies uncles baby mommas little brothers third cousin down at the hydro store. Jacks is recognized in the fertilizer industry and have a superb reputation in the community. Their ratio for jacks hydroponic is 20-12-26 and MC uses 9.7-5.5-14. Their ratios are a difference of Milligrams so how is either less than ideal for hydro when Jacks product is called Jacks Hydroponic. Straight from their website This formula was designed as a base foundation for hydroponic growing.
> Please elaborate because I am confused on the point you made and I may learn something I didnt prior.


Jacks is fine but I do not agree with that ratio. I've run something similar and it resulted in lots of leaf at the expense of yield. 




> Shill - an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others.





> Nice try. Dont try to pull that bullshit. I am sharing information and my experience on dyna, jacks, and MC. There are better options and solutions thats all. I will let you be to your journal.


Yes, shill. You claim to be a commercial grower but are trolling grow journals with MC bullshit? I'm flattered but you're in the wrong section, dude.


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## pinner420 (Sep 24, 2018)

Just a guess but when things get this heated about a fertilizer must be time for a grow off thread!


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## homebrewer (Sep 24, 2018)

Below is what my friend said about MC. I was going to order a sample for myself but it sounds like a pain to use. I've used liquid foods with roughly the same ratio and it's less than ideal for hydro. Solid for containers but who wants to weigh out dusty dry salts every time you've got to water your plants? Now if a dry food could be mixed into a super concentrated solution and be used a teaspoon or so at a time, now that's worth a look. 


_I tried that Mega Crop & I didn't like it. Me and I think it was Hank both had N deficiencies. Mega crop has plenty N just depends if you mix it right...they forget to tell you.

It has little balls and sand and you have to get the right mix of each they are diff nutes. I don't remember the tech saying the mix I would guess 50/50 balls and sand?The rep said you should mix like 5 gals + at a time he didn't recommend mixing 1 gal at a time.

I was mixing 1 gals & 1/2 gals the Stardawg in bloom was looking great the 1 in veg was lacking in N. I flushed it down to less than 50 ppm run off and fed DG grow twice and she looked great. I flushed the 1 in bloom as well and she is back on DG

I aint messing w mega crop any more.Really a 2 part mixed together. It grows good if you get the sand to balls mix right but I aint got time to fool w that.Lets see how much balls to sand do i have in this teaspoon?_


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## rkymtnman (Sep 24, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> Below is what my friend said about MC.


pH stability was horrible for me. up and down and unpredictable. in well and RO water and a mix.

it does work great on my lawn.


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## pinner420 (Sep 24, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> Below is what my friend said about MC. I was going to order a sample for myself but it sounds like a pain to use. I've used liquid foods with roughly the same ratio and it's less than ideal for hydro. Solid for containers but who wants to weigh out dusty dry salts every time you've got to water your plants? Now if a dry food could be mixed into a super concentrated solution and be used a teaspoon or so at a time, now that's worth a look.
> 
> 
> _I tried that Mega Crop & I didn't like it. Me and I think it was Hank both had N deficiencies. Mega crop has plenty N just depends if you mix it right...they forget to tell you.
> ...


Gotta be the funniest ghetto shit I've ever read... No grow off required...


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## rkymtnman (Sep 25, 2018)

kaoss_11 said:


> Human error on your part. if it worked on your lawn then...


man, don't make yourself sound any stupider. 

everybody knows lawn fertilizer is just about all N and from Urea aka Piss. 

my medium varied, the pH stability was worst of any nute i've tried in hydro.


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## kaoss_11 (Sep 25, 2018)

rkymtnman said:


> man, don't make yourself sound any stupider.
> 
> everybody knows lawn fertilizer is just about all N and from Urea aka Piss.
> 
> my medium varied, the pH stability was worst of any nute i've tried in hydro.


Im stupid? How so?


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## rkymtnman (Sep 26, 2018)

kaoss_11 said:


> Im stupid? How so?


why did you delete your post?
Human error on your part. if it worked on your lawn then...

isnt' that what you wrote? and then i explained why that comment was non-smart


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## homebrewer (Sep 26, 2018)

rkymtnman said:


> why did you delete your post?
> Human error on your part. if it worked on your lawn then...
> 
> isnt' that what you wrote? and then i explained why that comment was non-smart


I asked a mod to remove his last two posts - not because I don't like discussing this stuff, but because he's in the wrong section of the forum to sell his goods. If he wants to start his own thread in the nutrients section I'd happily join.


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## rkymtnman (Sep 26, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> I asked a mod to remove his last two posts - not because I don't like discussing this stuff, but because he's in the wrong section of the forum to sell his goods. If he wants to start his own thread in the nutrients section I'd happily join.


i didn't know he was a salesman for Mega. thought he was just a fan boy.


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## homebrewer (Sep 26, 2018)

rkymtnman said:


> i didn't know he was a salesman for Mega. thought he was just a fan boy.


He might just be a fan, i don't know. I'd gladly discuss other plant foods here but when someone dismisses DG, calling it a ripoff or some other ignorant sh*t, I know they're blowing smoke. 

Years ago I thought about giving GH's Maxi grow a shot. It looks like MC basically ripped off their 10-5-14 NPK content. That's a solid NPK for container gardening in my experience. I just crunched some numbers and comparing their 16 pound bag at $82 to DG's 5 gallon price and they cost the same to run. I buy DG 1 gallon at a time though which would make it a hair more expensive than GH. I'm trying to think of the scale I'd have to get to where nutrient cost would be substantial enough for me to want to switch to a dry food, something that is much more inconvenient to use for me than liquids. 10K watts of hydro tables maybe?


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## rkymtnman (Sep 26, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> He might just be a fan, i don't know. I'd gladly discuss other plant foods here but when someone dismisses DG, calling it a ripoff or some other ignorant sh*t, I know they're blowing smoke.
> 
> Years ago I thought about giving GH's Maxi grow a shot. It looks like MC basically ripped off their 10-5-14 NPK content. That's a solid NPK for container gardening in my experience. I just crunched some numbers and comparing their 16 pound bag at $82 to DG's 5 gallon price and they cost the same to run. I buy DG 1 gallon at a time though which would make it a hair more expensive than GH. I'm trying to think of the scale I'd have to get to where nutrient cost would be substantial enough for me to want to switch to a dry food, something that is much more inconvenient to use for me than liquids. 10K watts of hydro tables maybe?


I'm a big fan of GH maxi bloom from start to finish in dtw GH waterfarms. a few grows ago, i added a powdered fulvic, humic, kelp and micro mix to the maxibloom. i was able to lower my EC by about 0.3 because of the increased nute uptake that the fulvic/humic provided. it stains the roots dark brown which is the only drawback.


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## homebrewer (Sep 26, 2018)

rkymtnman said:


> I'm a big fan of GH maxi bloom from start to finish in dtw GH waterfarms. a few grows ago, i added a powdered fulvic, humic, kelp and micro mix to the maxibloom.  i was able to lower my EC by about 0.3 because of the increased nute uptake that the fulvic/humic provided. it stains the roots dark brown which is the only drawback.


I really like humic/fulvic/sea kelp additives. 

Maxibloom has a good ratio for hydro, dtw is close enough. I may try that one. How's it dissolve in water? Lots of preshaking in a jug or just right into your res?


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## rkymtnman (Sep 26, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> I really like humic/fulvic/sea kelp additives.
> 
> Maxibloom has a good ratio for hydro, dtw is close enough. I may try that one. How's it dissolve in water? Lots of preshaking in a jug or just right into your res?


check out BioAg CytoPlus. a 100g bag is about 10 bucks on ebay if you want to try it. I think i was using 0.5 g per gallon??

Maxi dissolves really easy. I have a small waterfall in my res and it takes just a few minutes of circulation for it to totally dissolve.


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## stevenlaf (Oct 2, 2018)

hey homebrewer , first time writing here, im currently using optimum hydroponix and my brother is using AN and i was wondering what do you recommend between all these company, and if you recommend dyna gro, wich one should i take for veg , the foliage pro or Grow bottle?


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## homebrewer (Oct 2, 2018)

stevenlaf said:


> hey homebrewer , first time writing here, im currently using optimum hydroponix and my brother is using AN and i was wondering what do you recommend between all these company, and if you recommend dyna gro, wich one should i take for veg , the foliage pro or Grow bottle?


Are you in hydro or in containers with peat, coco, or dirt?


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## stevenlaf (Oct 2, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> Are you in hydro or in containers with peat, coco, or dirt?


im in dirt and my brother is in coco


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## homebrewer (Oct 2, 2018)

stevenlaf said:


> im in dirt and my brother is in coco


I'd go with DG's foliage pro (or grow) from start to finish. The difference is minimal between the two, Grow possibly being more forgiving. Personally I use foliage pro.


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## stevenlaf (Oct 2, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> I'd go with DG's foliage pro (or grow) from start to finish. The difference is minimal between the two, Grow possibly being more forgiving. Personally I use foliage pro.


thanks alot , i like your hard work in the community hope i will see more post like this from you


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## urbanmedgrower (Oct 2, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> I'd go with DG's foliage pro (or grow) from start to finish. The difference is minimal between the two, Grow possibly being more forgiving. Personally I use foliage pro.


well I decided to research the great advice you have been giving on this post homebrewer... You are absolutely right in saying a higher N feeding in soil (buffer) is better then a bloom formula (by the way my plants have never been better 2 weeks into flower, green lush and very healthy) After some digging around I found this... http://www.css.cornell.edu/faculty/lehmann/publ/Lehmann et al., 2003, Leaching CABI book.pdf 
long story short nitrate is easily leached because it shows little interaction with the negatively charged matrix of most soils, therefore is very mobile in soil. And in contrast phosphates are very immobile in most soils/soilless mediums. 
So thanks again homebrewer.


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## homebrewer (Oct 3, 2018)

urbanmedgrower said:


> well I decided to research the great advice you have been giving on this post homebrewer... You are absolutely right in saying a higher N feeding in soil (buffer) is better then a bloom formula (by the way my plants have never been better 2 weeks into flower, green lush and very healthy) After some digging around I found this... http://www.css.cornell.edu/faculty/lehmann/publ/Lehmann et al., 2003, Leaching CABI book.pdf
> long story short *nitrate is easily leached because it shows little interaction with the negatively charged matrix of most soils, therefore is very mobile in soil. And in contrast phosphates are very immobile in most soils/soilless mediums.*
> So thanks again homebrewer.


Not only that, the phosphorus needs of our plants is actually quite low so feeding with a bloom formula over time will cause a buildup of P in our mediums. Usually buildups cause lockouts and changes in pH.

Good luck with your grow!


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## swedsteven (Oct 6, 2018)

Homebrewer do you no someone that did the jack321 mix vs dyna gro style

I use to be a dynagro fan grow + potasium sulfate in flowering and foliage alone in veg with very low ppm and big yield but i went for organic soil with almost same yield from dyna 2.2p to bio 1.8p a light and now im thinking of a side by side organic vs jack 321

Dynagro Taste is very good with potasium sulfate but without it not so good tasting bud
Organic taste more sweet and flavor .
Jack 321 have a lot off sulfur bud must taste good .and jack is cheap 3cent the mix a gallon heavy feeding 1000ppm so 2 gallon of solution at 500 ppm 1,5 cent gallon solution for veg


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## Davidminer (Oct 7, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> I'd go with DG's foliage pro (or grow) from start to finish. The difference is minimal between the two, Grow possibly being more forgiving. Personally I use foliage pro.


E

Hello, so you are saying that you use dynagro foilage 9-3-6 for both flower and veg? Would this work for me if im growing in promix and using r.o water? Would i need to add something else?


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## homebrewer (Oct 7, 2018)

swedsteven said:


> I use to be a dynagro fan grow + potasium sulfate in flowering and foliage alone in veg with very low ppm and big yield but i went for organic soil with almost same yield from dyna 2.2p to bio 1.8p a light and now im thinking of a side by side organic vs jack 321


I did a side by side with a plant grown with DG foliage pro and a plant grown in homemade compost and fed lightly with DG. No one could tell the difference. The plant grown in compost *may* have been a touch frostier? It was hard to tell. 



> Dynagro Taste is very good with potasium sulfate but without it not so good tasting bud
> Organic taste more sweet and flavor .


If your DG flowers tasted bad, you screwed something up. If your flowers tasted bad with ANY plant food sold in a hydro shop, you screwed something up. Folks who go organic just want to do things in a different way. It's their choice, to each their own. My outdoor garden is mostly organic because that's the easiest way to grow outside for me. Indoors i'd much rather use bottles. Heck, organic bottles would be great if anyone could tell a difference.


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## homebrewer (Oct 7, 2018)

Davidminer said:


> E
> 
> Hello, so you are saying that you use dynagro foilage 9-3-6 for both flower and veg? Would this work for me if im growing in promix and using r.o water? Would i need to add something else?


This combo will work great.


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## SimpleBox (Dec 4, 2018)

Hey @homebrewer , 
I'm using strictly Foilage Pro in soil. (1/4 tsp per gal in veg, 1/2 in flower)
My tap water is about 280ppm.
I'm cutting it with 50% RO water. (I assume it drops it to 140ppm)
Do you think it will work good or should I use 100% RO?

I don't have a PPM meter and it's over my head trying to understand PPMs.

Thanks


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## 70's natureboy (Dec 4, 2018)

Since this thread is still kickn' I'll jump in. I went away from Dynagrow for a couple crops and now have some Dynagrow plants going again. The DG's are kicking ass over Florabloom and Megacrop on my indicas. Very noticeable lush growth. With my sativas the diff isn't as noticeable but......I have one sour diesel growing in FP and it is the only one making a donkey dick cola. My Diesels don't usually make a donkey dick cola just lots of nice golf ball size buds. I do get a little claw with FP on my Diesels which is why I keep trying different stuff (sensitive bitches). I think next time I will use FP for 8 weeks of flower then switch to Floranova the last couple weeks to keep the claw away. Maybe I will switch to DG grow the last 2 weeks, not sure. I only use 3-5 ml/gal of FP. I started using DG because of this thread. Thanks HB.


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## homebrewer (Dec 6, 2018)

SimpleBox said:


> Hey @homebrewer ,
> I'm using strictly Foilage Pro in soil. (1/4 tsp per gal in veg, 1/2 in flower)
> My tap water is about 280ppm.
> I'm cutting it with 50% RO water. (I assume it drops it to 140ppm)
> ...


I think what you're doing now should work perfectly.


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## homebrewer (Dec 6, 2018)

70's natureboy said:


> Since this thread is still kickn' I'll jump in. I went away from Dynagrow for a couple crops and now have some Dynagrow plants going again. The DG's are kicking ass over Florabloom and Megacrop on my indicas. Very noticeable lush growth. With my sativas the diff isn't as noticeable but......I have one sour diesel growing in FP and it is the only one making a donkey dick cola. My Diesels don't usually make a donkey dick cola just lots of nice golf ball size buds. I do get a little claw with FP on my Diesels which is why I keep trying different stuff (sensitive bitches). I think next time I will use FP for 8 weeks of flower then switch to Floranova the last couple weeks to keep the claw away. Maybe I will switch to DG grow the last 2 weeks, not sure. I only use 3-5 ml/gal of FP. I started using DG because of this thread. Thanks HB.


The most FP I'd use in peat during flower is 1/2 tsp/gal. That may explain your claw issue? I actually notice the benefits of FP's 9-3-6 more on my 100+ day strains that the ones that only go 65. But low and slow is how I approach feeding these plants and they seem to love that.


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## SimpleBox (Dec 14, 2018)

homebrewer said:


> But low and slow is how I approach feeding these plants and they seem to love that.


Can you elaborate on 'low and slow' please.
Low i take for low dose but slow I'm not sure.


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## homebrewer (Dec 16, 2018)

SimpleBox said:


> Can you elaborate on 'low and slow' please.
> Low i take for low dose but slow I'm not sure.


Yeah, just don't push the plants and be patient. Growing is not a sprint, it's a marathon if you will. Pace yourself.


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## Northernmich (Feb 17, 2019)

FP & Silica 10% mag pro This is the way to go Latest batch of Barneys Farm LSD


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## Herz420 (Jun 19, 2019)

Hey homebrewer i just read your comparision grow here. I have some questions. I only did two grows in coco but i always had problems from the beginning. I start my seeds in coco jiffy pellets, after the seedling show his head and the roots coming out of the jiffy i transplant into 1L coco pot and start to feed at 0.4ec, i use osmosis water and i use advanced nutrients coco. Last grow i used canna coco and had the same problems. Is the ec of 0.4 too high for the seedlings? The plants didnt grow after the transplant into the 1l coco pot same with my first grow in coco. The plants in soil were growing faster i bought the Advanced nutrients because i thought its a ph problem.. Ph stays stable with osmosis water but the problems with this fertilizer didnt go away so im doing something wrong and after i read your article here how low you are feeding your plants i thought the 0.4 ec is maybe too high for the seedlings. Should i try 0.1-0.2ec?
I also want to feed so low in my first grow i used the Advanced nutrients calculator and the ec is very high in veg at 1.6ec in flower up to 2.0ec and the last grow the weed tasted like shit hope you can help me with my seedlings problem and i would try the dyna gro fertilizers but i cant get them over here only canna, advanced nutrients, ghe, plagron and advanced hydroponics and sorry for the bad english


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## homebrewer (Jun 19, 2019)

Herz420 said:


> Hey homebrewer i just read your comparision grow here. I have some questions. I only did two grows in coco but i always had problems from the beginning. I start my seeds in coco jiffy pellets, after the seedling show his head and the roots coming out of the jiffy i transplant into 1L coco pot and start to feed at 0.4ec, i use osmosis water and i use advanced nutrients coco. Last grow i used canna coco and had the same problems. Is the ec of 0.4 too high for the seedlings? The plants didnt grow after the transplant into the 1l coco pot same with my first grow in coco. The plants in soil were growing faster i bought the Advanced nutrients because i thought its a ph problem.. Ph stays stable with osmosis water but the problems with this fertilizer didnt go away so im doing something wrong and after i read your article here how low you are feeding your plants i thought the 0.4 ec is maybe too high for the seedlings. Should i try 0.1-0.2ec?
> I also want to feed so low in my first grow i used the Advanced nutrients calculator and the ec is very high in veg at 1.6ec in flower up to 2.0ec and the last grow the weed tasted like shit hope you can help me with my seedlings problem and i would try the dyna gro fertilizers but i cant get them over here only canna, advanced nutrients, ghe, plagron and advanced hydroponics and sorry for the bad english


You can get away with feeding seedlings just water. Once you see the first true leaves or the formation of that second node you can start feeding something, 0.4 EC is probably is high as you'd want to go. If you're in 1L pots then 0.2 EC should be plenty unless your plants tell you otherwise.


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## littleflavio (Jun 24, 2019)

And here i am back at it again...been awhile since i start growing any plants again. Im planning to go multi system this time. Kranky, aquaponics, hydro and fog. Any suggestions if i should go with advanced nutrients or fox farms?


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## homebrewer (Jun 24, 2019)

littleflavio said:


> And here i am back at it again...been awhile since i start growing any plants again. Im planning to go multi system this time. Kranky, aquaponics, hydro and fog. Any suggestions if i should go with advanced nutrients or fox farms?


AN for sure and I'd suggest their grand master line. Don't skimp, buy every bottle and pay full price. Make sure it's from an authorized dealer. If you leave out even one bottle, your plants will know it. Good luck.


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## dandruff (Aug 18, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> AN for sure and I'd suggest their grand master line. Don't skimp, buy every bottle and pay full price. Make sure it's from an authorized dealer. If you leave out even one bottle, your plants will know it. Good luck.


Lol, homebrewer, I like your style and always have. I'd don't always agree with you but for the most part you do help a lot of folks out there that may be confused, I think the good advice you give off sets all your arguments with some people. Don't get me wrong, I like to read them. Keep up the good work


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## xFACEMANx (Sep 14, 2019)

homebrewer said:


> I've run 'bloom only' and found that I got some N deficiencies and some leaf drop in my strains. So I added 1-2mls of bloom per gallon and now it's green 'til harvest.
> 
> Depending on what scale you're on, 850-900ppm or about 1.2-1.3 EC is where I like to run things and I get the best yields by doing so. I ran _ their_ nute schedule though my GH vs DG thread and there was clearly some nute burn by week 4 at their generic levels. Can't blame them, it's just a suggestion across all plants and vegetables.


I agree. That's why I run maxibloom. Just that little bit of extra N, plus the P and N are not trying to duke it out in flower. Thats a lot of p. Npk raw makes a N only nutrient and also ,GH micro carries another 5 of n over.So that's what I use instead of just the NPK Raw N. nice to know about the Dyna though. That was my other possible go to for my grows.


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## KhanTheOG (Jul 12, 2021)

homebrewer said:


> Because when growing in promix/coco/soil you don't need a lot of phosphorus.


Do you know the science behind that? Why does it need less p


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## Norville Rogers (Sep 27, 2021)

KhanTheOG said:


> Do you know the science behind that? Why does it need less p


Google Cation, but basically certain medias absorb the P and has a buildup you need to contend with.


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## Ajh19921 (Oct 2, 2021)

I'm growing in terra pro plus which is a light mix apparently. can anyone help me with a guideline dosage for dyna gro products? I can't seem to get it right I'm not sure if I have been overfeeding or underfeeding but some of my plants do not look good. Yellowing all over. I'm in week 4 of flower, the yellowing started two weeks in on some of the plants. I gave plain water twice and just now a feed of grow 4ml per 5 litres mag pro 2ml per 5 litres and 7ml per 5 litres of Pro tek as the pH was so low. Ec was around 1.1.. Ph 6.4 
(1 us gal = 4.5 litres)


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## OneMoreRip (Oct 2, 2021)

Ajh19921 said:


> I'm growing in terra pro plus which is a light mix apparently. can anyone help me with a guideline dosage for dyna gro products? I can't seem to get it right I'm not sure if I have been overfeeding or underfeeding but some of my plants do not look good. Yellowing all over. I'm in week 4 of flower, the yellowing started two weeks in on some of the plants. I gave plain water twice and just now a feed of grow 4ml per 5 litres mag pro 2ml per 5 litres and 7ml per 5 litres of Pro tek as the pH was so low. Ec was around 1.1.. Ph 6.4
> (1 us gal = 4.5 litres)


In case no one else can help. When I was using Dyna-Gro I think I was at 700-800 ppm for pretty much everything at all stages and it was pretty good. Can’t recall ph but I imagine 6ish.

check your run off ph and ec/ppm and flush with 700-800 ppm (or better suggestion), until run off is correct. Make sure it needs good watering before or chance of overwatering. Not sure how your exact media/soil will play a roll in all that.

It’s been a while since I have been using dynagro but I’m pretty sure what I ended up doing with it.

p.s. while I’m here, thanks homebrewer for unknowingly helping me to be successful growing some trees a while back


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