# Journal of my attempt at the "Mr Green" hydro setup (with influence from Al B Fuct)



## Ahzweepay (Nov 30, 2008)

Journal of my attempt at duplicating the hydroponic setup as outlined in the "Mr Green: I Grow Chronic" series on YouTube. 

Initial Issue #1 - I'm a total newb - no prior experience - not a "green thumb"
Initial Issue #2 - The "Mr. Green" series seems like it's very in depth to the total newb, but alas as I tried to put together my list of things necessary I started running into big gaps in certain very important details.

*Part 1 - Room Setup*
I decided to use a big/odd closet in my basement for my grow room. It's got 2 separate halves, measuring:

Veg Side (Mr Green dripper system) = 26"deep x 44"wide x 71" tall 
Flower Side (Mr Green/Al B Fuct flood/drain system) = 26"deep x 48"wide x 71"tall

I gutted the closet and cleaned it with a strong bleach solution. Once that dried I resealed the walls with the water proof paint, and applied styrofoam insulation.

Installed a new breaker in my main power box and ran a new circuit into the room. Hooked up a long power strip in each room and each is plugged into the new outlet. 

Cut holes in the ceiling for intake and exhaust ventilation, on both sides, and covered it all in panda film. Created doors out of panda film and used velcro to seal each door (still need some work there).

Installed vent blowers in each side (suspended with bungie cords) and added backdraft flappers on each since they both push into a common exit duct which is attached to a can filter. Each side has a passive intake duct that drops down to about 1' from the floor and is sourced from a separate room from where the exhaust is being pumped.

Added a small 2 speed clip fan for circulation and a wireless digital thermometer/hygrometer in each room too.

Veg side lighting is provided by 2 24" SunBlaze T5 HO Fluorescents.
Flower side lighting is provided by a 400watt HPS w/reflector.

Attached images should give a decent interpretation of the setup (more photos of flower side to come).


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 1, 2008)

*Part 2 - Seeds*

I've been a practicing smoker  for many years now and had always thought about growing myself. Whenever I've come across seeds in some good bags I've kept them. 
I first tried to germinate some that were known to be from extremely good smoke, but they were also at least 3yrs old. Tried several ways over the course of a week and didn't get any action. 
Found a container of some seeds that were from much more recent collections, less than a year for sure. Of the approx. 30 I tried I got 17 to germinate. 

My most successful germination method was the moist paper towel in the dark.

The first batch (6 seeds) went into small rockwool cubes that had not been pretreated. None of those sprouted further. 

Just after those went into cubes I found info on pretreating the cubes. I bought some rockwool conditioner and got my cubes pretreated for the next batch of seeds. They went in to the tray over the next 2 days in batches of 5. They were in a covered (humidome) tray and I only gave them a little distilled water as needed. The tray was placed under fluoroescent lights on 24hrs.

Due to these coming from bag seed I just numbered each seedling using some plastic tags. 
FYI - These seedlings could be either White Rhino, White Russian, AK47, Super Skunk, Mr Nice, Bubbleberry or Great White Shark (those are the names as stated from my connection)

Image of the full tray of seed/seedlings and an image of one seedling that went nutz.


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 1, 2008)

*Part 3 - Veg Side Dripper*

I constructed my dripper system following the guidelines in the "Mr Green" video series. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find that 8 headed water diverter, but made due with some small air diverters instead. 
The system consists of:

1 14gal Rubbermade tote
A bunch of 1/4" air hose (bought a 50' roll)
2 5' lengths of 1/2" outer 5/8" inner vinyl hose
2'x2' grow tray with a 1/2" drain fitting
2 5 connection air diverters with shutoff valves 
10 1/2gph dripper tips
10 6" dripper spikes
1/2" to 1/8" reducer to go from pump hose to dripper system hose (made from several parts in the fittings section at Home Depot)
1 water pump
1 air pump
1 air stone
1 digital timer

The finished product had 10 drip sites in the tub. Each site can be turned on/off as needed. 

Initially set timer to turn on pump 3x per day for 20min each.

I'm using General Hydro nutrients, and had found a guide online that stated to lower the nutrients by 50%, so I converted the chart (see below), and used the "Seedlings" phase for my first batch of nutrients. I set my fluorescent lights to 12" above & made sure my pH was at 5.8. (I didn't have my ppm meter yet, so no info on that.)

*Plant Phase---Hours Of Light------- Grow------Micro -------Bloom-------------PPM Range*
Seedlings ----------24 ---------------1.25ml ----1.25ml -----1.25ml-------------100-200ppm (6.25ml each per 5gal or 1.25tsp + 25ml H2O2)
Week #2 -----------24 ----------------2.5ml -----1.25ml -----1.25ml------------200-400ppm	(12.5ml/6.25ml/6.25ml + 25ml H2O2 for 5gal)
Week #4 -----------24 -----------------5ml -------2.5ml -------1.5ml------------400-500ppm	(25ml/12.5ml/7.5ml + 25ml H2O2 for 5gal )
Week #6+ ---------24 -----------------6ml --------3ml --------1.5ml------------500-700ppm	(30ml/15ml/7.5ml + 25ml H2O2 for 5gal {Norm for Mothers})

Images attached of finished drip tray before adding seedlings and an image 2 days after they had been in running in the tray.


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 1, 2008)

*Part 4 - Getting seedlings established & trouble*

The Plan: Once seedlings are established take clones, root them and put them in the flower room to determine sex.

As I stated in the last post my first batch of nutes were mixed as the seedling phase (6.25ml each solution in 5gal tap water pH adjusted to 5.8 ), and the pumps set to run 3x per day for 20min each time. A few days later I noticed the cubes were feeling pretty light, so upped the pump times to 30min on.

Topped the nute tank and adjusted the pH back to 5.8 a few days later.

At the beginning of the second week on the original nutes I had become well versed in the preachings of Al B Fuct, so went and got myself some H2O2. I slightly misunderstood Al's dosing though, and only dosed the 1gal of water I used to top up the tank (rather than topping the tank and dosing for the full 5gal). 

Ran into issues with the pH pen I initially purchased (the readings would jump all over the place - guy at the hydro shop said he'd never seen on act like that before), so I exchanged it for a Hanna pH/TDS meter.

I noticed that the roots on plant #8 were looking fuzzy and was worried it may be mold, so posted the https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/131944-need-help-dripper-timing.html thread (3rd attached image). Got a few replies that the roots looked good and suggested I was watering for too long. I adjusted the timers to run 6x per day, but for only 10min. I also changed out the 1/2gph dripper tips for 2gph tips figuring that would allow me to get enough nutrients into the rockwool cubes in a shorter period of time. I also adjusted my Veg Room config to have both of my fluoro fixtures mounted on the ceiling as I was no longer using the one for the humidome tray (first attached image). While I had the tray/shelf out of the room I noticed that #8 was starting to smell a bit skunky (second attached image) 
Ran like this for a couple days, topped the tank with some H2O2 prepped tap water and adjusted the pH.

Beginning of week 2 I dumped the nutes, washed the tank/pump/stone with bleach water and rinsed the hell outta them. Used the 2nd week nutrients (12.5ml Grow/6.25ml Micro/6.25ml Bloom + 25ml 35% H2O2 in 5gal tap water). Got all nutes mixed and lowered pH to 5.8 - noted ppm was 414. Did a little plant shuffle in the tray so the taller plants were on one side to make adjusting the lights easier - set lights to approx 4" above tops.
After a couple of days went to top the tank and noticed the pH had crept up to 6.7 (before adding any new water). Topped tank w/1gal tap water treated w/H2O2 and corrected pH to 5.6.

At this point I started to worry about spots that were showing up on a leaf of #8 (4th image), so posted to the Hydoponics thread here on Rollitup. Per a suggestion from potroast I changed my drippers to run 4 times per day rather than 6. I also checked the pH in my tank and noticed it was up to 6.1 - lowered it to 5.8.
The next day during inspection I noticed the roots on #8 and 10 were looking a bit brown in spots (5th image). I again posted to the Hydro thread and was informed it was overwatering and "air pruning". Checked the res and it was at pH 6.3! Dropped it to 5.3 as I was going to be away for a little over a day.
When I returned #8 had gotten a bit worse (6th image) - more spots on more leaves. Transplanted #8 & 10 to pots of hydroton (7th image) so the roots could have more room to grow without being pruned, and lowered lights to 1" above tops. Checked the tank and it was at pH 6.3 again! Lowered it to 5.5.

Around this time I was reading the Al B Faqt and found that H2O2 is not compatible with GH nutrients - what a bummer! So, when I topped the tank I just used plain tap water. Initial pH was 5.9, lowered to 5.7.

Yesterday morning I checked pH and it was back up to 6.2 - lowered it to 5.5. Noted that #8 continues to get more spots and spots have now shown up on #14 also (images 8-10) - other plants are fine other than a few "character marks" here and there. Adjusted the timer to run 3x per day for 10min each.
Last night went to check on nutrients and noticed some whitish-grey slime in the tank. Cleaned out the tank/pump/air stone with some bleach water and rinsed the hell outta everything. Pumped some bleach water through the pump/feed tube (not connected to drippers) and then ran several gallons of fresh water through it. Remixed the week 2 nutes omitting the H2O2 - set pH to 5.8 and noted ppm at 407. Late last night I checked and the pH was up to 6.2, so I lowered it to 5.5.

The pump ran last at 3am, so I checked pH this morning and it was at 5.8 so I decided to leave well enough alone. Will check it again this evening...


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 1, 2008)

Wondering if the spots on 8 & 14 could be N deficiency? 

My thinking is that it could be that the N in the GH nutes is derived from an organic source, and that my previous addition of H2O2 could have depleted the N causing a deficiency.

I've attached an image I found of a plant showing N deficiency in the Veg stage. Seems to me many of the leaves on this plant look a bit like mine.


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## smartbadguy (Dec 1, 2008)

every thing look crazy yeah it look like it could used more food.


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 1, 2008)

Just received the following reply from GH Tech Support...

"Hello,
There are no living organisms in Flora Series. It is perfectly fine to use H2O2 with it.
Thank you,
Jesse Pennington
GH"

So, I guess that H2O2 is fine to use in the GH Flora series after all, which I like to hear. 

Would anyone here be able to explain exactly why they think H2O2 shouldn't be used with GH Flora series nutrients? I'd like to hear back from the "growers in the know" before I start using it again.


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## bobbyboy34 (Dec 1, 2008)

i would play it safe and buy hygrozyme


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## sparkafire (Dec 1, 2008)

I started out just like you only i have a green thumb and from what i have seen so far i think your doing fine. We tend to kill our plants with kindness they are like baby's we don't want anything to go wrong and die. They look fine just keep up on the water schedule and you will be great. 

As far as H2o2 and the flora series i never used H202 with it and ABF said it was a combo type of nute and if its true you would lose some of the nute value. I use a natural orginizem and never had any issues with my grow h202 is just too expensive and a pain in the ass to administer. .


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 1, 2008)

Just got done checking my nute tank. pH was stable all day today - still at 5.8 

Did a little re-arranging in the tray. Moved 14 & 16 to pots of pellets and over to the "tall side" of the tray. Readjusted the lights since 8 had grown up almost into them - it may be a bit ugly, but it's still growing well. (Lights were moved up for the pictures)

Thanks to those who replied about using H2O2 with GH nutes. Since my pH was stable all day today I'm going to skip the H2O2 for a while and see how it goes.


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 2, 2008)

...and another stable day - pH was 6.0 at 8am and still 6.0 at 7pm.
Topped the tank and got it set at 5.8. 
Friday/Saturday will be the next tank change - hopefully things will hold steady until then.


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## prnkstr (Dec 3, 2008)

looking good man im doing a similar type drip system should check it out 

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/136338-prnkstrs-second-grow-various-strains.html


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## prnkstr (Dec 3, 2008)

as far as the H202 goes i would not use it unless you have root rot or other types of root problems. It can be used to add some air to the water but some airstones do that pretty nicely. I use clearex myself to clear out the rockwool and hydroton every other week seems to be going good so far. Also H202 cannot be used with organic nutes im not sure if what you are using is organic so i cant say for sure or not if that was the problem. I continue to have a similar PH problem with mine as well but it was due due 2 things as first 1 - I was using tap water so i got an RO system. 2 - I use an additive called Dark Energy it raises the PH of the water over about a 24 hour period so i have to maintain it during res changes. Looking forward to see your next post!


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## unity (Dec 3, 2008)

Looking good mate 
Keep in mind that you want your ph to go slowly up. It means the plants are eating. If it climes too much in the medium it means that you do not have enough 'run off' in the watering cycle to bring it back into balance. But it looks like you are dialing it in
PH in Rockwool will spike like this in the first view weeks and the spots on your leafs are related in my opinion to the ph being erratic like it was in the beginning, probably causing a lock out. I would not cut off h202, especially since you have a mix of hydroton and rockwool which is not an ideal combo due to the fact that the rockwool requires a lot less watering then the hydroton. The h202 will bring more oxygen to the roots, use it, just stay within Al's 1.7ml per liter (35%) and don't over due it. 
I am not blessed with a green thumb and have so far learned by 'deadly' mistakes and by the kind people here sharing their experience. My biggest advice: DO NOT SMOTHER YOUR BABIES WITH LOVE, AND DO NOT OVERREACT TO A GIVEN PROBLEM. Sit back, ask for advice, and have several people agree on a solution before you administer 'first aid'. At least until you know whos advice holds true more often then not.
Btw, if you are using RO water, are you supplementing with Cal-Mag?

Unity


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## sk3tch3 (Dec 3, 2008)

prnkstr said:


> .....add some air to the water but some airstones do that pretty nicely. I use clearex myself to clear out the rockwool and hydroton every other week seems to be going good so far....


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## Old in the Way (Dec 3, 2008)

unity said:


> Looking good mate
> 
> Btw, if you are using RO water, are you supplementing with Cal-Mag?
> 
> Unity



i agree with unity, cal-mag may be needed even with tap water. the spots are def the start of ca deficiency


-OitW


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## Hydrotech364 (Dec 3, 2008)

*Looks good to me,when i saw the film i saw a couple of obvious flaws.With AL in the grow as a advisor you should get way more weight*....


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 3, 2008)

Old in the Way said:


> i agree with unity, cal-mag may be needed even with tap water. the spots are def the start of ca deficiency
> 
> 
> -OitW


I'm using plain tap water that's not been "softened". Spose I should dig up info on my local water treatment plant to see what's up. 
Either way I have another trip to the hydro shop planned, so one more thing on the list...

Checked on the pH this evening and it was up to 6.3 (I lowered it to 5.6), and I noticed that the tank doesn't seem quite as clear as it was yesterday. There's no goo in it, just a little murky. Hopefully it will make it until Friday before it needs a change. 

Plants are looking good in general - lots of growth overnight  
Just realized a bit ago that I really shoulda topped these buggers a while ago. My hope is to get a mother or 2 outta this batch, and a little extra branching is always nice for them, or so I've read. I'll have to give that a go tomorrow evening.

On the subject of topping plants that are planned to be mothers, does the attached diagram describe the proper method? (seems pretty clear to me - cut at 1 and see it branch out at the 3s) One of the plants (#10) topped itself very early on - I assume that topping each of those would be prudent too? Any suggestions on how often to top the mothers-to-be in order to achieve a plant I can get several clones off of? I say "several clones" cuz I haven't really decided how many I want to grow at once - just gonna take it as the plants give it to me...

Thanks again for everyone's suggestions!


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## prnkstr (Dec 4, 2008)

i was gonna ask you the same thing about topping lol Ive never done it before and want to give it a test run but i think i may wait till the second gen mothers or first set of clones to give it a go. I need to get some pruning utilities as well so I am gonna wait to do it right rather than using my ghetto scissors in my kitchen  . Ill keep up posted though i may go and do it tomorrow anyway. As far as i know now would be an OK time to do it to the mothers so it branches off and you have more sites to take clones from. top it then wait about 2 weeks and top both of those, that's my plan anyway.


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 4, 2008)

Well, I decided to give topping my plants a go. Attached you'll find pictures from one of the plants - Before, Pre-clip, After w/tip and a little closer shot of the aftermath. Pretty sure I did it right, but any comments are appreciated. 

I also included a new shot of all of the mothers-to-be.

Topped my res this evening and it was looking pretty decent, the murk hasn't gotten any worse (forgot to check pH before topping up water, but it was 6.3 after the top up, so it couldn't have been too bad previous). Lowered the pH to 5.5 after the top up.


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## potorlando (Dec 4, 2008)

You're setup looks exactly like the videos!!!


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 4, 2008)

potorlando said:


> You're setup looks exactly like the videos!!!


Thanks - that's what I was going for.
Hard for me to do it much different when I didn't know anything about growing when I started  

The hardest parts of this process, thusfar, has been figuring out a nutrient schedule and deciding on the dripper timing. 
In the Mr Green videos he doesn't really explain the length of time his drippers run nor what volume they allow. Let alone any real idea about nutrients other than saying to "read the label" - lol


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## Consciousness420 (Dec 4, 2008)

dude, I know what you mean... I remember way back when I watched his videos and I was getting into growing I started using a drip system and I had to do a lot of experimentation.. now I know that --> its all about trying different schedules in the beginning and watching the plant daily.. respond to its changes and keep adjusting until you find the right schedule.. if the solution is gushing (steady stream) out of the dripper, then only have it on for about 5 minutes every other hour.. if it is just dripping normally out of the dripper then have it on for 10 minutes or so per hour .. watch two main things.. the saturation of the rockwool (how 'heavy' they are) and how the top/new leaves look every day (if they are wilting or not).. this is related to the plants transpiration rate.. watch the level of the reservoir.. as the solution level drops, so to will the drip rate cuz the pressure drops and the pump isnt as efficient.. try to pump the most solution through per day without making the plant leaves wilt. but its really complicated by the fact that its a balancing act with all the other environmental and genetic preconditions.. like amount of light, access to oxygen/co2, nutrient ratios, stage of life.. etc for instance, if your plants grow 3 inches in a single day and get closer to the light, the transpiration rate will increase, making them suck more water from the res (roots WILL find their way to the res).. which drops the res level significantly, which then makes the drip rate fall dramatically .. it gets really f^!%#ed up man.. 
I think a decent rate to start with is a dripper at 4 drops a second and running 5 minutes per hour for veg .. but toy around with it and watch your plants! good luck!


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## prnkstr (Dec 4, 2008)

i thought i would share this site with you. I remember you saying you couldn't find the dripper hub so here it is. i love this site because its one of the only ones that sells actual cocotek cubes . http://www.wormsway.com/detail.asp?sku=R154DT


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## knucklehead (Dec 5, 2008)

i also have the exact same setup influenced by "mr green". i germed on 11-21-08.


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## unity (Dec 5, 2008)

Be careful with the drip manifolds, they are very unreliable as it relates to flow rate since it does not take a lot to clog them up. I messed with them for quite a while and finally abandoned them in favor of just a 1/2 inch tube with the little drip line connectors (you use a little hole punch and then pop them in) and an end cap. I was amazed at how much more flow I had. Anyhow, I'm sure your set up will work out for you, just thought I give you heads up, so you know what to watch out for 

Unity


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## Forsaken5678 (Dec 5, 2008)

My set up was inspired by Mr. Green too. I've got to say I haven't had any major problems with it yet (started about 3 weeks ago). What do you do for your watering cycle? Mr. Green doesn't really specify. I have mine set for 30 minutes 3 times a day. My plants seem to like it. I've tried longer cycles but then they just start to droop.


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 5, 2008)

Forsaken5678 said:


> What do you do for your watering cycle? Mr. Green doesn't really specify. I have mine set for 30 minutes 3 times a day. My plants seem to like it. I've tried longer cycles but then they just start to droop.


I have mine set to water 3x per day for 10min each time (lights on 24hr). The dripper tips I have are 2 gallon per hour, so it's about .2gal of nutes per cycle.
I've experimented a lot, and am trying to stay on the slightly drier side. I was definitely overdoing it previously (20min every 4hrs w/2gph tips) - plants got droopy right away after that change. 
I had originally bought 1/2gph tips but felt they weren't giving enough water in a decent amount of time, so I "upgraded" to the 2gph tips. 

Just had a mild setback. I was doing some finishing work on the flower side and got it to the point I could test out my 400watt HPS. It came on instantly and quite bright. Then after a few seconds the color of the light started to change from white to more orangy (as expected). Then about a minute after I fired it up the light got quite a bit brighter then made a sound (didn't hear really well as I was vacuuming) and the light just dimmed down to almost nothing. I turned it off then back on and just see a little "lightning" near the end of the bulb away from the socket. Luckily this has happened well before the room is needed, but I was just at the flippin hydro shop this afternoon. The shop I go to guarantees any bulb they sell for a year, so it shouldn't be a big deal to get a new one. Just worried about it being a ballast problem. FYI - I cleaned the bulb with Alcohol before putting it in and did not touch it with my hands at all.

Checked my Veg side pH this evening and it was 6.0, so lowered it to 5.7 and moved the lights up a bit again. 

Tomorrow will be cleaning/tank change day. I'll make sure to post pictures of the progress then.


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 5, 2008)

unity said:


> Be careful with the drip manifolds, they are very unreliable as it relates to flow rate since it does not take a lot to clog them up. I messed with them for quite a while and finally abandoned them in favor of just a 1/2 inch tube with the little drip line connectors (you use a little hole punch and then pop them in) and an end cap. I was amazed at how much more flow I had. Anyhow, I'm sure your set up will work out for you, just thought I give you heads up, so you know what to watch out for
> 
> Unity


Thanks for the advice on the drippers. I've heard they are prone to cloggage, so have been keeping a close eye on them daily. So far so good, but if I do run into issues I'll definitely give the method you outlined above a shot. 
What you describe seems to be how Prnkstr's system is setup - is that right? Here's a link to Prnkstr's journal for reference...

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/136338-prnkstrs-second-grow-various-strains-2.html#post1715247


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## prnkstr (Dec 5, 2008)

unity said:


> Be careful with the drip manifolds, they are very unreliable as it relates to flow rate since it does not take a lot to clog them up. I messed with them for quite a while and finally abandoned them in favor of just a 1/2 inch tube with the little drip line connectors (you use a little hole punch and then pop them in) and an end cap. I was amazed at how much more flow I had. Anyhow, I'm sure your set up will work out for you, just thought I give you heads up, so you know what to watch out for
> 
> Unity


Yes what he describes is how mine is set up. I have a 1/2" main line with an end cap on it , i then made smaller 1/4 lines coming off that for my drip lines. I used 3 drip connectors on each plant with 1 backup line for each with no connector. works pretty well i water for 15min 2 times a day. midnight and noon.


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## unity (Dec 6, 2008)

prnkstr said:


> Yes what he describes is how mine is set up. I have a 1/2" main line with an end cap on it , i then made smaller 1/4 lines coming off that for my drip lines. I used 3 drip connectors on each plant with 1 backup line for each with no connector. works pretty well i water for 15min 2 times a day. midnight and noon.


Yep, that's about how I did it  

Unity


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 6, 2008)

I'm so flippin pumped! It would appear that #8 is showing some preflowers. Even though it's a little gimpy lookin it's still growing like crazy. Here's a couple of closeups (best I can do), but they look pretty convincingly GIRL to me. I've also attached a couple images of preflowers I've found around the web for comparison.

Whatcha think - is it a girl?

Also - do you think I should be concerned about the color of the stem on this one? Kinda redish/purpleish along with green...


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## unity (Dec 6, 2008)

Cheers, it's a girl!


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 7, 2008)

Warning: Some of the attached photos are a bit ugly.

Started to see the brown spots here and there on another couple of plants, so decided to look into my water a bit more. After some digging online I was able to find my water company's monthly water report. Turns out my "hard water" is not "hard water" as far as the _GH Flora Micro Hardwater_ formula is concerned. As far as I can tell the only reason to use the _Hardwater_ formula is if your water has more than 70ppm calcium. Surprise-surprise! My water analysis shows that calcium content is a mere 25ppm here! So I've definitely not been giving my babies enough calcium 

This afternoon I finally made it back to the grow shop and exchanged my light bulb. The owner said that he's gotten a lot of these bulbs returned - bad batch. (FYI - The bulb is an Osram Plantastar 400W HPS). Put the new bulb in and gave it a test run for 6hrs. Temp started at 63.5, but rose to 90.3 by the end of 6hrs. Looks like I'll have to make a few adjustments to get the temps down before it's flower time.

While at the shop I also picked up a jug of Cal-Mag. Hopefully that will take care of the ugliness. I added 5ml/gal in my tank (25ml total). Sound about right? Just don't want to go from not enough to too much...


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## unity (Dec 8, 2008)

Cal-Mag @ 5ml/G is a great place to start  I would be weary of the tab water regardless of the low calcium readings. Just keep an eye on them. 

Unity


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## unity (Dec 8, 2008)

What is your 'run off' ph & EC?


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 8, 2008)

unity said:


> What is your 'run off' ph & EC?


I haven't checked that - what's the best way? Collect the runoff in a separate container and check it there?


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## unity (Dec 8, 2008)

Ahzweepay said:


> I haven't checked that - what's the best way? Collect the runoff in a separate container and check it there?


Sounds like a way to do it. Don't get freaked out if it reads high 
If it is above 6.2 I would bring it back into balance by recirculating and adjusting the ph in the res until the run-off reads below 6.0. Do this with your normal nutrient soup, not just ph adjusted water.
But let's see where you are at first off all.

Unity


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## knucklehead (Dec 8, 2008)

Ahzweepay said:


> I'm so flippin pumped! It would appear that #8 is showing some preflowers. Even though it's a little gimpy lookin it's still growing like crazy. Here's a couple of closeups (best I can do), but they look pretty convincingly GIRL to me. I've also attached a couple images of preflowers I've found around the web for comparison.
> 
> Whatcha think - is it a girl?
> 
> Also - do you think I should be concerned about the color of the stem on this one? Kinda redish/purpleish along with green...


How old are your plants here? 
did you cut clones to sex or veg them until they showed?


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## Perfextionist420 (Dec 8, 2008)

nice set up things seem 2 be going well i plan on a similar set up good luck to you


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 8, 2008)

unity said:


> Sounds like a way to do it. Don't get freaked out if it reads high
> If it is above 6.2 I would bring it back into balance by recirculating and adjusting the ph in the res until the run-off reads below 6.0. Do this with your normal nutrient soup, not just ph adjusted water.
> But let's see where you are at first off all.


Hmm, Are you using rockwool in your system, or just pellets? I have the "Mr Green" combo going, and am a bit afraid to run that much water through the rockwool for fear that it'll get over-saturated/over-watered. Am I freaking out over nothing? 

I checked my res a bit ago and it was at 6.0 - I lowered it to 5.8. Seems to be staying mostly sane for now.


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 8, 2008)

knucklehead said:


> How old are your plants here?
> did you cut clones to sex or veg them until they showed?


These were all started from bag-seed and have been in the dripper tub for just about 5 weeks. I haven't done any clones yet, maybe in the next week or so, but found signs of preflowers while still in Veg. Apparently once the plant is sexually mature it'll throw out these preflowers, therefore you can often determine the sex of the plant before forcing it to flower.


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 8, 2008)

Perfextionist420 said:


> nice set up things seem 2 be going well i plan on a similar set up good luck to you


Thanks, and good luck backatcha!!!


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## unity (Dec 8, 2008)

Ahzweepay said:


> Hmm, Are you using rockwool in your system, or just pellets? I have the "Mr Green" combo going, and am a bit afraid to run that much water through the rockwool for fear that it'll get over-saturated/over-watered. Am I freaking out over nothing?
> 
> I checked my res a bit ago and it was at 6.0 - I lowered it to 5.8. Seems to be staying mostly sane for now.


I use rockwool as medium, but have it coverd with hydroton so algea won't grow. Rockwool will hold in its most saturated state between 15% - 20% oxygen, so you can't realy drown them in rockwool unles you flood them for extended periods of time. Also, as long as your medium is in balance with your res. there is realy no need to flush anything out. I just meant to keep you alert to what is going on in your medium, not just your res. 
If Al was around he would tell us that it is not a good idea to mix rockwool with hydroton as medium, since hydroton requires a more frequent watering schedule. Don't ask me how I know that.

Unity


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## prnkstr (Dec 8, 2008)

seems odd i mix rockwool and hydroton and i only feed every 12 hours with no problems yet to my plants, and i also use drip irrigation


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## flamdrags420 (Dec 9, 2008)

Great thread bro. Love the way you are covering your logic and the way you express your development of knowledge and how you apply it to the grow.

I had a question about your first post on your page there. Looks like you had a white flange for your flexi duct to attach too. I was wondering where you could get those? I'm looking for like 4 of those.

Thanks and keep up the great work.


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 9, 2008)

flamdrags420 said:


> Great thread bro. Love the way you are covering your logic and the way you express your development of knowledge and how you apply it to the grow.


Thanks a lot man! 
I'm hoping that "working it out aloud" will help me keep track of things better, help any other newbs figure this all out, and the feedback of the people here is invaluable!



flamdrags420 said:


> I had a question about your first post on your page there. Looks like you had a white flange for your flexi duct to attach too. I was wondering where you could get those? I'm looking for like 4 of those.


If you mean the flange on the ceiling in the attached picture, that's actually a 1 way air damper - it only allows air to flow through it one way. I used 1 for each side since both sides vent into one common exit line (which will eventually have a filter on the end). I'm not positive, but I believe they were a couple bucks a piece and I found them at Mendards (think I've seen them at Home Depot too). Look in the section with the ducts - especially near where they have the "through the wall vents".


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## prnkstr (Dec 9, 2008)

I am curious on how your ladies are doing after you topped them. Have then begun to split off yet?


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 9, 2008)

prnkstr said:


> I am curious on how your ladies are doing after you topped them. Have then begun to split off yet?


Actually yes they have - I guess I forgot to mention that...
Overall I think I did it properly - just wish I had done it a little earlier, but live and learn... The attached pictures show the new sprouts pretty decent - you can see them on either side of the little brown spot (where they were snipped).

I topped up my tank tonight (1.5gal after 3 days, they're drinkin now) and noticed that in general the plants seem to be looking a bit more healthy. I think the Cal-Mag is helping. I also decided that since they're drinking more I'd up my drip time by 5min, so it's now 3x per day for 15min each time. (hopefully that wasn't a mistake)

Made some modifications to my Flower side ventilation (cut the sagging intake hose so it was about a foot off the floor rather than 3inches - it "settled" a bit since it was installed), and that got the room to steady at about 87 degrees. Next up - new intake fan...


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## flamdrags420 (Dec 10, 2008)

Ahzweepay said:


> If you mean the flange on the ceiling in the attached picture, that's actually a 1 way air damper - it only allows air to flow through it one way. I used 1 for each side since both sides vent into one common exit line (which will eventually have a filter on the end). I'm not positive, but I believe they were a couple bucks a piece and I found them at Mendards (think I've seen them at Home Depot too). Look in the section with the ducts - especially near where they have the "through the wall vents".


I saw some of those. When I looked, they only had 4 inch ones. It's kind of difficult setting up the venting systems. I know what I want. But since I'm not a HVAC guy, it's hard to know what it is you are looking for because I don't know the nomenclature etc.

I think I'm going to get some of these for my exiting exhaust for my lights.

Thanks for the reply. Keep up the great work.


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 10, 2008)

flamdrags420 said:


> I saw some of those. When I looked, they only had 4 inch ones.


Yep - the one's I have are the 4 inchers. My space is pretty small, so I did all my ventilation with the cheap 4" dryer ducting.


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 11, 2008)

My job has been bleeding into my "fun time" a lot lately - grrr.
Managed to sneak away for an hour this afternoon and went to the hydro shop to picked up an intake fan and fittings for it. Now I just have to hope I can find an hour or so tomorrow to put it in...

Plants are looking pretty good - 8 continues to be somewhat ugly, but is definitely growin like a weed! It's also very obvious that it's a girl now, no close ups necessary


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 14, 2008)

Today (yesterday now) was a busy day in the grow rooms.

Started the day changing out the nutrients (clean/rinse/rinse/refill). Decided that since the plants seem to be drinking more that I'd go with 10gal in my tank rather than the previous 5gal. I also upped the nutrients to the level I'm considering using for my mothers.

*6ml grow + 3ml Micro + 1.5ml Bloom + 5ml H2O2 + 5ml Cal-Mag per gallon*

When I had the tank all ready to go it was at pH 5.7 and 1008ppm (my tap water is usually about 170ppm). Does that seem a little light or about right?

The second, and much longer part, of the day was spent upgrading my ventilation. 

Added a blower to the flower side air intake line. Hoping this will help keep the temps a bit more stable when the 400w is running. 
Been noticing a bit of a skunky scent coming from the basement lately, so figured it was time to get that carbon filter in place before the wrong people caught a whiff. 
I modified my common exhaust line adding a Can-Filter to it (the exhaust from both rooms goes into it). Since the filter is not the inline type I had to cut the exhaust line that dumps into the laundry room. I didn't think it would be good to let the exhaust bottle up in that smallish dead space it empties into, so I added a cheap little inline duct booster to the exhaust line to help clear the space. 
...and yes, that is a wonderful fan hanger fashioned out of white duct tape 

Attached are a few updated pictures of "the kids" and todays remodeling.


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## unity (Dec 14, 2008)

You are doing a fine job mate, they are looking great! Do yourself a favor and post always the EC number, instead of the ppm. The ppm numbers vary due to different conversion factors (.5Hanna/.64Eutech/.7Truncheon)
Again, looking great!

Unity


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 15, 2008)

Well, I've been presented with yet another "opportunity" in the ventilation arena. The addition of the intake blower did nothing for my flower room temps - still topping out over 90 degrees (the 87 degree run I spoke of previously was a fluke in that it was an extremely cold day). 

The only options I have, as far as I have been able to come up with, are to go to a smaller wattage light or install an air cooled hood/tube. Any other ideas?

What a pisser. I plan to call the grow shop I got my reflector from and see if they will allow me to exchange it for a cool tube, otherwise I'll be left with a useless reflector. Then I get the lovely ordeal of figuring out how to get another air intake line and exhaust line in there - yikes! 
Just when I think the expenses are done another $100-150 comes outta the woodwork. Oh well, at least I'm finding out now rather than when I have my first plants in there...

I moved #7 up to the front of the tray today, and noticed the root loop that appeared when it was just starting out is now a huge knot. I've attached a picture of it. Pretty crazy! The plant is also kinda growing sideways, and is a bit smaller than the average. I think I'm gonna use it for my first clone attempt - to happen in the next few days...


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 16, 2008)

Yesterday afternoon I picked up my cool tube. I didn't get around to putting it in thanks to work. 
This afternoon I started to get the pieces together and came to the quick realization that it was gonna be too long for my room  CRIPES!!!
I was able to get to the hydro shop about 10min before they closed, and exchange it for a Super Sun Reflector. So far it seems to be fitting a lot better.
Will have a picture update tomorrow.


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## magikal chronik (Dec 16, 2008)

*lookin good man.*


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## UTurn (Dec 16, 2008)

everything looks real real nice, excited to see the final product.


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 17, 2008)

unity said:


> You are doing a fine job mate, they are looking great! Do yourself a favor and post always the EC number, instead of the ppm. The ppm numbers vary due to different conversion factors (.5Hanna/.64Eutech/.7Truncheon)
> Again, looking great!
> 
> Unity


Thanks for the encouragement Unity - much appreciated!
I haven't really run into much info about EC (mS/cm) values related to nutes - most of what I've seen has been ppm related. Good to know about EC being more standard - I like standards 
Anyhoo, I checked my EC the past couple of days. 
Yesterday my tank stats were pH 5.8/854ppm/1.19mS/cm
Today they were pH 5.8/868ppm/1.21mS/cm
How does that seem - high, light or just right?

Finished up the installation of my new vented reflector - see attached photos. I noticed that while the temp directly under the light was 87 that the rest of the room was actually around 75 down low and 82 near the ceiling. The amount of heat coming off the glass is pretty low overall (hand barely warm a couple inches from the glass) while there's plenty of heat coming out the light's exhaust line (in another room). Am I asking for trouble with temps in this range? The info I've gotten on Flower room temps has varied wildly, but generally it appears that anything from 75-85 is "good" while above 90 and below 60 are "bad" (I believe Al B Fuct prefers 78.8 ). This is assuming no supplemental CO2 which I do not plan to use for this grow. I also don't have a clue how a tray full of hydroton and plants will affect the overall temp. 
Any opinions on where I should place my thermometer to get the best reading from the space?

You'll also notice the "fancy" new double zipper door I put in today (the door is rolled up and held in place by a red bungie cord in the attached photo). Makes accessing the space and keeping it light tight much easier than the old flappy door.

I have a batch of rockwool cubes stewin in some pre-use juice overnight and will be making my first attempt at cloning tomorrow (I have Al B's cloning thread bookmarked and ready too) - wish me luck!!


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 18, 2008)

Took the plunge this evening and did up a batch of clones.
I started out with the knotted stemmed #7. I've attached several pictures of the process I went through to take my clones. I took a total of 18 clones, at least 2 from each plant, although I took 6 clones from #8 since it's showing female preflowers. I hope to veg one of those clones into a new mother. I figured #8 was big enough to get a decent number of clones from so, if all goes well, I should have at least a few plants to run through the flowering process and give me something to try out 

Speaking of #8 - it's roots are amazing! They formed themselves into one of the channels in the bottom of the tray (image attached). So much so that when I took the plant out to work on it I noticed it won't sit flat. Schnikes!!

I put the tray full of clones on a heat mat on the lower shelf in my veg room for the night (not complete darkness as Al B. would do, but close enough). Tomorrow I'll move them up to the top for a bit more light (see last photo).

I also topped the hell outta my "mothers" and trimmed them back, removing any gimp leaves and some of the small undergrowth to make it easier to get drippers in place.

Had my 1st and 2nd dripper failure today too. I got all the "mothers" reset in the tub with drippers in place and fired up the pump. Noticed 2 of them weren't dripping at all  I have 4 extras, so just swapped them out. Will have to figure out an easy way to soak these clogged guys clean - any suggestions?

The final 3 pictures are of the tray before, after, and the whole room just before closing it up.


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## UTurn (Dec 18, 2008)

everything is looking real nice, Im getting ready for a new cycle myself pretty soon and am planning on vegging the plants longer than I have in the past, how big you gonna let these guys get?


Ahzweepay said:


> Took the plunge this evening and did up a batch of clones.
> I started out with the knotted stemmed #7. I've attached several pictures of the process I went through to take my clones. I took a total of 18 clones, at least 2 from each plant, although I took 6 clones from #8 since it's showing female preflowers. I hope to veg one of those clones into a new mother. I figured #8 was big enough to get a decent number of clones from so, if all goes well, I should have at least a few plants to run through the flowering process and give me something to try out
> 
> Speaking of #8 - it's roots are amazing! They formed themselves into one of the channels in the bottom of the tray (image attached). So much so that when I took the plant out to work on it I noticed it won't sit flat. Schnikes!!
> ...


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 18, 2008)

UTurn said:


> everything is looking real nice, Im getting ready for a new cycle myself pretty soon and am planning on vegging the plants longer than I have in the past, how big you gonna let these guys get?


Gonna try the Al B. Fuct/SOG style with no veg time - just get some good roots and put 'em in the flower room.


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## unity (Dec 18, 2008)

Ahzweepay said:


> Thanks for the encouragement Unity - much appreciated!
> I haven't really run into much info about EC (mS/cm) values related to nutes - most of what I've seen has been ppm related. Good to know about EC being more standard - I like standards
> Anyhoo, I checked my EC the past couple of days.
> Yesterday my tank stats were pH 5.8/854ppm/1.19mS/cm
> ...


I would max out at about 76-78 without co2, with co2 during veg and early flower you can go as high as 85, but keep in mind thc starts breaking down at about 85 degrees. So even if you could take the temps higher because of the co2, you would not want to.

I think you may want to add some oscillating fan/s, you don't want the temps to be all over the place. Mix that air up a bit more and it will get more consistent  Keep in mind, no co2, high temps (above 7, will get you loose airy buds mate. Especially during mid to late flowering. Keeping the humidity low will also help to frost up the plant (the lower the better during mid to late flowering) as well as no bud rot.

You are doing great


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 21, 2008)

Added a fan near the floor of my Flower Room pointing straight up at the normal circulating fan. Temps are now staying steady at 82.5. My circulating fans are just 6"-2speed clip fans, so am going to look into getting a 12" oscillating fan in the next couple of days. 

Changed the tank today (gonna stick with once a week for a while).
My plain water read = pH 8.4, 175ppm & .25mS/cm
After adding my nutes/pH down = pH 5.7, 913ppm & 1.27mS/cm

Clones took a huge nose dive over the first day or so, but this evening are showing some signs of perking up (the "mothers" are still doing well). I've been misting them about 3x per day w/plain tap water and have watered them about once a day w/15ml of pH adjusted tap water w/H2O2 (premixed a gallon w/5ml 35% H2O2). I've attached a few pictures of the tray over the past few days. (WARNING: These may be unsettling to some)


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## UTurn (Dec 22, 2008)

haha sad but hopefully they'll come back and turn into pretty little clones


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 23, 2008)

Riddle me this...
If one can put a clone, once it's developed good roots, into the "full strength" flower nutes can one thus put a clone directly into the "full strength" veg nutes? ...or do the rooted clones need to be introduced to the veg nutes more gradually?

I'm-a-wonderin cuz I wanna keep one of the clones of #8 as a replacement mother (as long as they make it).


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## BCTHC (Dec 23, 2008)

wow looks realy good so far. Once I start growing I'll be keeping my plants that I start from seeds till they are to big or have reached the max pot size that I wanna go to and take them for all the clones I can over the course of time in the last pot size and replace them.


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## prnkstr (Dec 26, 2008)

so how are the clones coming along? I took my 3 days ago and they are doing great! no signs of roots yet though..


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 29, 2008)

prnkstr said:


> so how are the clones coming along? I took my 3 days ago and they are doing great! no signs of roots yet though..


I got rid of 3 of mine yesterday (dead) and made replacements. The rest seem to be doing pretty decent, although it's been 11 days now and still no roots 

I've been spraying them about 3x per day with plain tap water and watering the cubes 2x per day w/approx 20ml prepared tap water (1gal tap water + 5ml 35% H2O2 + pH'd to 5.8 ).

I've attached a few shots of the clone tray over the last few days - nothing too exciting...


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 30, 2008)

I don't think I've mentioned it before, but in the beginning I was trying to measure my nutes using 1/4 teaspoons - LAME! 
I found a very useful tool at Target in the kitchen accessories section. It's a meat baster - basically a big syringe that holds up to 30ml. Very convenient for measuring nutes and watering clones. It was only $2 compared to the $20 model sold at the hydro shop.


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## sk3tch3 (Jan 1, 2009)

Ahzweepay said:


> I don't think I've mentioned it before, but in the beginning I was trying to measure my nutes using 1/4 teaspoons - LAME!
> I found a very useful tool at Target in the kitchen accessories section. It's a meat baster - basically a big syringe that holds up to 30ml. Very convenient for measuring nutes and watering clones. It was only $2 compared to the $20 model sold at the hydro shop.


 
very useful knowledge, thank you for sharing 

peace and happy growing


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## mardavarot (Jan 1, 2009)

Hi. For MPO look's like neeed MORE light. Second: you put to much water on rockwool cubes, and what is tempr??? tepr shuld be more then 23 def..y, about 26-27.
Regards


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## UTurn (Jan 2, 2009)

Ahzweepay said:


> Riddle me this...
> If one can put a clone, once it's developed good roots, into the "full strength" flower nutes can one thus put a clone directly into the "full strength" veg nutes? ...or do the rooted clones need to be introduced to the veg nutes more gradually?
> 
> I'm-a-wonderin cuz I wanna keep one of the clones of #8 as a replacement mother (as long as they make it).


well been gone for a bit but back to check it out and since no one bothered to answer this I'll give it a shot. I would say go 1/4 strength on all clones at the beginning regardless if its flowering or veg just because with the small size of the roots and the plant they just can't handle and do not need the full nute blast.


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## Ahzweepay (Jan 2, 2009)

mardavarot said:


> Hi. For MPO look's like neeed MORE light. Second: you put to much water on rockwool cubes, and what is tempr??? tepr shuld be more then 23 def..y, about 26-27.
> Regards


Thanks for the input.
Was under the impression that the clones didn't really need much light, just enough to know it's day, so didn't bother to do any additional lighting for them.

As for the cube waterings, I've cut that back to 10ml twice a day - the cubes seem pretty much dry when I water them, and nothing is running out the bottom of them as I water anymore - sound better?

I also added a fan speed controller to my Veg Room exhaust fan. I'm currently "dialing it in". Have it keeping the room at about 24C (74.7F), but am still lowering the speed to see if I can get the temps closer to 80F.




UTurn said:


> I would say go 1/4 strength on all clones at the beginning regardless if its flowering or veg just because with the small size of the roots and the plant they just can't handle and do not need the full nute blast.


Thanks for the info - was thinking about easing them into the nutes anyway, but this seals the deal
Now I just have to get some flippin roots!

Tomorrow is tank change day, and also plan to do a little rearranging in the room to better accommodate the size of the "mothers" (they're getting tall). I may also replace a few more of the gimp looking clones with some fresh ones.

Wish me luck


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## twistedentities (Jan 2, 2009)

subscribed


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## Ahzweepay (Jan 4, 2009)

Changed out the nutes again yesterday. Seems like doing the tank change once a week is keeping the funk in check.

Removed the upper level of the shelf unit in the Veg room to make room for the "mothers". While I had them all out of the closet I gave them a good lookin-over. Found some "sexy-bits" (female preflowers) on #16 - so that's 2, mostly confirmed, mothers previous to flowering - hopefully they hold true 

I had been messing around with a speed controller on my exhaust fan. Unfortunately upon further inspection (brought on when I awoke to the sweet smell of skunk) I found that the blower I have does not work properly with the speed controller. It was barely running therefore not exhausting the room through the filter at all  I set it back to running full blast again for now. 

Which leads me to the clones...
I decided to try using the dome on my clone tray. My thought is that it will help to trap more heat around the clones, and make it so I don't have to mist them so often. I have to say that dome is a pain in the a$$.
I decided to hold off on making more clones for a while longer, but gave the remaining clones a good once-over. Removed another 4 that were looking extra sad too. Unfortunately one of them actually had a couple of small root shoots sticking out near, what would have been, the top of the cube. The rest of the shoot was bare of roots though. At least that gives me hope that some of them will end up working out...


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## UTurn (Jan 5, 2009)

Wow weez you are following the guide perfectly I swear this could be Mr.green pt.2. keep kickin ass.


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## UTurn (Jan 5, 2009)

K weez few questions. What lights you using to veg those mommies? How long does your pump go on for and 3 or 4 times per day?
update :
nvm found it on the earlier pages.


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## prnkstr (Jan 6, 2009)

looking good so far! i must say the dome and heat mat with my clones worked wonders so i hope it works good for you too!


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## Ahzweepay (Jan 7, 2009)

I decided that it had been far too long with my clones looking very sad and not showing roots, so I pulled them all out and inspected them on the way to the "circular file". Of the 12 remaining I found 5 with some very small root shoots near the top of the cube, but that's all. 

After much love and tenderness I had to let odd little #7 go today. Due to it's odd growth pattern and the fact that it was getting overshadowed by the rest of the "mothers" I decided to take it out and give the other plants more room. 4 of the 5 remaining plants are showing female preflowers, so should be in good shape as far as females go (no idea if 7 was male or female). I've attached photos of #7 just before and just after it was removed from its pot.

I got some slightly different cubes for this clone attempt. They are the same rockwool material, but come in a sheet of 96 cubes all stuck together. I just sliced off 19 cubes and dumped them into some water that had been set to pH 5.1. They soaked for a good 24hrs, then I got to try out my new salad spinner. I gotta say, Al B Fuct was right on with that tool! The salad spinner works perfect for the job - neat and quick 

The guy at the grow shop suggested turning these cubes over and poking a new hole in the bottom to get a more snug fit. I found that using the meat baster needle to both poke the new hole and water the cubes worked like a charm. The clones were much more snug in the cube this time around. Tried to follow Al's clone method again although I deviated by misting my clones after getting them set in their cubes. I started the misting when 2 of the first 3 I did went limp shortly after setting them aside. I took 3 clones off each of the remaining plants and an additional clone from #14 and 3 additional from #8 (the heartiest 2 female preflower showing plants). The clones are in the dark flower room now for some rest. Hopefully the limp ones will spring up over night. Attached it a picture of the tray just before putting it in the dark.

I added a couple of single 24" fluoro's to better light my veg room, and changed out the exhaust fan for one I can actually control with my speed controller. I have the fan dialed down pretty low now, but have been keeping temps around 73 in general - not perfect, but improving. Attached is a photo showing the new lights, fan and speed controller. 

The last photos are before and after shots of the tray.



Grow Little Clones Grow


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## UTurn (Jan 8, 2009)

well hopefully everything ends up good with those clones and you can get some roots going. I'm taking my very first clones as well and I'm on about day 4 in a humidome and heat mat so im anxious to see what happens within the next couple days. Do you add any catalyst when watering you clones?


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## Ahzweepay (Jan 8, 2009)

UTurn said:


> well hopefully everything ends up good with those clones and you can get some roots going. I'm taking my very first clones as well and I'm on about day 4 in a humidome and heat mat so im anxious to see what happens within the next couple days. Do you add any catalyst when watering you clones?


The only thing I use is tap water w/H2O2 and pH set to 5.8. 
What do you mean by a catalyst (I understand what a catalyst is, but have not heard of one used in the cloning process)? 
Are you referring to the cloning gel I dip the clones in before putting them in the cubes


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## Richard Pryor (Jan 9, 2009)

Very nice, man. 

Regarding the clones: I wouldn't use anything other than water to feed them. They don't have roots, so they can't use the nutrients just yet. I wouldn't even use H2O2.

I would also trim those leaves in half so they don't carry that much weight and don't spend energy on anything other than developing roots.

Some of those clones look pretty big! I personally take smaller cuttings (like half your size), and they root easier... but if you want to flower as soon as they root, well I guess you would want bigger clones.

Good luck. I'll be following along.


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## Ahzweepay (Jan 9, 2009)

Richard Pryor said:


> Very nice, man.
> 
> Regarding the clones: I wouldn't use anything other than water to feed them. They don't have roots, so they can't use the nutrients just yet. I wouldn't even use H2O2.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice!

I've read of people cutting the leaves before, tho had never heard of a good reason why, but this makes sense. On my next watering I'll have to do an experiment and cut about half of the plants leaves. 

Being that these are my first (technically second) set of clones I've tried to vary some aspects a bit. I'm planning to put these right into flowering once they have rooted, so have tried to cut generally taller clones. Since I haven't grown anything in my flower room yet I wanted to get a variety of clone heights so I can try to determine the best size to cut going forward. 

So much experimentation & tweaking in the beginning - it's pretty fun overall (tho a bit of frustration due to that first batch of clones).


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## UTurn (Jan 9, 2009)

No I got some earth Juice catalyst and i mix a small amount into the water to hopefully help develop the roots faster.


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## Ahzweepay (Jan 12, 2009)

UTurn said:


> No I got some earth Juice catalyst and i mix a small amount into the water to hopefully help develop the roots faster.


Haven't tried anything like that yet - something else to keep in mind for next time 

I let my clones go a bit too long without watering on one of the first few days and lost the 6 smallest ones. I inspected them on the way to the circular file and was able to see some small roots forming on a couple - a good sign. 
I've settled on dip watering the clones twice a day (approx 12hrs apart). So far the remaining 13 seem to be doing well. I've attached an updated pic of the clone tray.


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## knucklehead (Jan 12, 2009)

Ahzweepay said:


> Haven't tried anything like that yet - something else to keep in mind for next time
> 
> I let my clones go a bit too long without watering on one of the first few days and lost the 6 smallest ones. I inspected them on the way to the circular file and was able to see some small roots forming on a couple - a good sign.
> I've settled on dip watering the clones twice a day (approx 12hrs apart). So far the remaining 13 seem to be doing well. I've attached an updated pic of the clone tray.




they look a hell of a lot better than mine!!!!


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## Ahzweepay (Jan 15, 2009)

Not much news, but I took a couple of new pictures of the clones so figured I'd post 'em up. 
I've decided to leave the last 2 that went gimp on me and see what happens with them. 1 of them seems to be coming back while I'm pretty sure the other is a goner.
These little ladies are now 8 days old, and still no signs of roots...


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## UTurn (Jan 16, 2009)

well i'll be keeping my fingers crossed for those clones, I got lazy and decided to say hell with the clones for now but I still have faith in you ahz!


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## eightsecrun (Jan 16, 2009)

Wow very nice thread. The clones are doing really good. Subscribed


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## Ahzweepay (Jan 20, 2009)

Well, had a few more clones crap out on me, so decided since it was a day off today, to take some more clones. 

This time around I'm only using distilled water for my "dipping solution". I also varied the cuts I did by doing 1/2 of them with a 45deg cut (Mr Green) and the other 1/2 with the 45deg cut and then split the tip (Al B Fuct-ish).

All of the clones with large leaves got their leaves cut in half (some didn't have much for large leaves so I just left them be).

I watered each cube w/25ml distilled water before pluggin in the clones. I also trimmed my clones almost completely while still on the mother, then removed the clone from the mother and put it directly into the rooting gel. (previously I may have dilly-dallied between removing the clone from the mother and getting it in the gel).

Once the clone was safe and secure in its cube I gave it a light spritz with some tap water and set it aside. 

This time around none of the clones went limp in the tray before getting them in the dark, and they all came out of the dark looking good and strong too  
I put them in the dark flower room for a bit over 6hrs, took 'em out, added the leftover clones from the last batch, gave them a light tap water spritz, covered the tray with a humidome and placed it on its heat mat in the veg room. 
I have the lights set about 6" above the tray.


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## jcdws602 (Jan 20, 2009)

I use Liquid Karma and purified water to spray my clones(2x's a day) and i put a layer of perlite so the rockwool cubes sit on top, put some ph balanced water in the tray every two the three days this keeps humidity levels up.I also cut the big fan leaves in half.Heatmat at 78-80 degrees farenheight.Pick up your clones make sure cubes are pretty wet(not dripping).After the first or so the dome can start comming off little by little until its completely off .Rootballs should be well developed before you set up for fast growth


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## UTurn (Jan 20, 2009)

Ahzweepay said:


> Well, had a few more clones crap out on me, so decided since it was a day off today, to take some more clones.
> 
> This time around I'm only using distilled water for my "dipping solution". I also varied the cuts I did by doing 1/2 of them with a 45deg cut (Mr Green) and the other 1/2 with the 45deg cut and then split the tip (Al B Fuct-ish).
> 
> ...


haha atta boy ahz, shit sounds like its goin good now....almost enough to make me wanna start cloning again...almost.


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## prnkstr (Jan 26, 2009)

thats sad news about your clones, im using a heat mat, and some additives in my clones water as well as the dome. Not sure as to why yours didnt make it. But otherwise its still looking good in your Grow room.


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## prnkstr (Feb 11, 2009)

any updates on your grow? Im curious to see how your coming along. I will post my update in the next day or so


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## Ahzweepay (Feb 22, 2009)

As you can see, I have been away for a while. I've been having a bitch of a time getting my clones to work. Having issues w/mold on the top of the cube where it meets the stem (from rooting gel/humidity) and had the last batch the stems bleach out and get hard/die.

Stopped at my local hydro shop to pick up some clone powder only to find out that they don't stock it due to import laws or some shit... Lame...
I ended up getting some Clonex gel - it's a bit thinner than the previous gel I had, dunno if that's good/bad. 

I was describing how I've gotten mold on my cubes/stems over my last couple of attempts to the guy at the hydro shop. He suggested that I don't mist the clones (thx Al) and that I make sure to not use much of the clone gel on the cuttings. They barely need anything on them, and mostly at the bottom. 

I did another batch of 20 clones on Friday night (I know - no life) This time around the cubes got 15ml distilled water w/H2O2 (rather than the 20ml I did last round). If I don't have any luck with this batch I'm gonna look into some of the catalyst solutions others are using. I just know that this is essentially how Al does it and it SHOULD work.

I have 1 clone (from one of my January batches) that has worked out and is actually starting to grow now  I manually watered it using half strength nutes for the first week after I had good roots out the small cube - I also put the small cube into a big one since I plan on this being a mother (not sure the bigger cube is totally necessary, but...). I moved this new mother to the main tray on Friday night, and hooked up one of the 1/2gal/hr drippers to it. Once it's roots have emerged from the bigger rockwool cube, I will put it in a pot w/hydroton (burying the cube this time) and upgrade it to the normal 2gal/hr dripper.

Partially to make room for the new mother, and partially due to over crowding, I decided to remove one of the mothers that was getting gimped out. I'm now at 4 mothers, which I think is perfect for my tray/needs.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 22, 2009)

may i chime in? in those pix they look nice and green and i dont know what they looked like before they died out, i noticed i took a ton of foliage off and left basically only the top pair of leaves, what i am getting at is in my expierience some times especially in rockwool the lower leaves turn yellow, my logic and understanding of the cloning process is since the stem has been cut it is no longing recieving nutes from the mother plant, it then has to (1) dedicate energy to producing roots (2) sustain itself through nutrient storage in the leaves..for example when we usually get simple problems on a mature plant the issues start at the bottom set of leaves, serving as a barrier on the bottom of the tottem pole if you will, by stripping your clones and leaving it like an umbrella your not affording your clone the "barrier" at the bottom to feed on, i have since moved onto aero cloning and dont get these issues, but it takes a good 10-14days to root in RW and thats an eterinity when the clone only has what little water in the RW...well thats my whole approach to cloning and serves me well, i hope you can take something from this, in my honest opinion i think you would have better results leaving them a couple nodes to work with, good luck bro...PS those are AL B FUCT style clones, likes them like tree trunks


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## knucklehead (Feb 26, 2009)

i had problems with my clones too. so i decided to go back to the basics. here's what i do.
soak peat pellets in PH adjusted water until fully expanded.
once they have expanded i gently fling the excess water out by hand.
i then form the peat pellet by hand to be nice and even on top.
poke hole in peat pellet with nail only half way down the pellet.
go to my mother select the cutting.
trim the extra leaves off while still on the plant.
cut at 45.
dip in gel.
place in pellet.
form seal around stem.
place them in my humidity dome sitting on the heat mat - i put cardboard spacers under the dome/tray and on top of the heat mat so the peat pellets don't get too hot.
then i cover the top of the dome with two layers of paper towels to block the light (CFL).
i've only done this once but not one single clone wilted out of ten.
once the roots are busting out of the pellets I transfer them into 3x3x3 rockwool cubes then into pots for ebb/flow.


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## Ahzweepay (Mar 22, 2009)

Thanks to those who have offered cloning advice - every tidbit I can get my hands on is greatly appreciated 

My last batch of clones slowly started dying off after about 2 weeks. My best guess is that I'm generally overwatering them with the occasional underwatering.
Headed to the hydro shop the other day to get another block of rockwool cubes when I saw they had a 25 site aerocloner for $150. Turns out that's the perfect size for my needs, and will hopefully cure my cloning woes.

While at the hydro shop I came to find out that they can no longer carry H2O2 (could be used in making bombs therefore, banned by The Man) nor HydroGuard (I'm told Botanicare didn't file the necessary fungicide paperwork therefore, banned by The Man). Every day The Man finds another way to keep me down 

The Clone Machine was supposed to come with HydroGuard, but it was oddly missing from the box. I gave the shop a call and found out the news about Hydroguard's demise, also that their replacement product would be in on tomorrows truck (they'll set me up with some for free - it's called Aqua-something-or-other)... 

On the light side, my mothers are all doing really well! I have been able to get 1 clone to successfully root (that's 1 for 90+), and that one is well on its way to becoming a replacement mother. 

Attached are a couple pictures of the fully loaded cloner.


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## Ahzweepay (Mar 23, 2009)

Headed back to the grow shop today to pick up the AquaShield for my clone tank. Seems to be the replacement for Hydroguard, but kinda oddly labeled. 

The label said to add 5-15ml per gallon. I have a 2 gallon res on my cloner and decided to go on the low side so just added 10ml total. Mixed it good and checked the pH - it was up to 6.2, so I lowered it back to 5.7.

So far the clones look every bit as good as they did when I took them.
Now I just need to hope that the clone tank temps stay down (it's always something)...


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## jgreenbeast (Mar 23, 2009)

Lookin good man keep it up!


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 24, 2009)

dude your problems are caused cus you leave little to no foliage on them clones, you literally have two leaves on each clone


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## Ahzweepay (Mar 24, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> dude your problems are caused cus you leave little to no foliage on them clones, you literally have two leaves on each clone


The reason for that is cuz that's what I've seen almost everyone do with their clones. Any pictures I've seen, the clones have been trimmed back to just the last couple leaves and a little sprig of new growth. Do you have pictures of how you take your clones?


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 24, 2009)

if the clone dont root within 7 days, most take up to 15 they will need some juice to feed on, those leaves provide juice, you ever see people leave large fan leaves on and just cut them in half? well why dont they take off the whole leave instead of cutting? please take one cutting and leave 2 nodes on it, just one for me and try it out, that clone will be armed with the ammunition to survive for 2 weeks easily if not rooted fast


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## Ahzweepay (Mar 24, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> if the clone dont root within 7 days, most take up to 15 they will need some juice to feed on, those leaves provide juice, you ever see people leave large fan leaves on and just cut them in half? well why dont they take off the whole leave instead of cutting? please take one cutting and leave 2 nodes on it, just one for me and try it out, that clone will be armed with the ammunition to survive for 2 weeks easily if not rooted fast


Your explanation makes total sense - never had anyone explain it that way. Next batch I take I will definitely leave a second node and see how it goes.


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 24, 2009)

i swear i am thanking you for this, i seen this is your second batch, and they will do better now that they are in the cloner, you should see some root within 5 days or less...IMO you could have built a cloner for $65


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 24, 2009)

if you want to go back, i think you missed my post like 10 posts back i explain my clone theory better


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## Ahzweepay (Mar 24, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> if you want to go back, i think you missed my post like 10 posts back i explain my clone theory better


Oh yeah, I had seen your post back there. I didn't act on it at the time due to it being the first I had heard of leaving more leaves, and my assumption that I was generally overwatering. 

I'm hoping I'm not on the road to more heartache tho - it appears that the pump in my cloner is keeping the water a bit warm. Water temp started out at about 81 - I've gotten it down to 78 by turning up the exhaust fan in the room, but my understanding is that's still high (looking for 75ish). Any suggestions on further dropping the temps? ...other than to dump a couple ice cubes in there every now and then...

Is the problem with high water temp fungal growth, or does it go further than that to being bad for the plants otherwise?


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 24, 2009)

my first time with an aeroponic cloner, i had root rot, not for cloning for the sake of vegging after they rooted, im am confident that if you can keep it under 80, you will have roots before any root rot takes hold, i have seen and heard of people putting heaters in the cloners, also i dont know if you ever worked with hydrogen peroxide but that helps keep shit at bay, change out the water every few days and you will have roots real fast, just dont leave rooted clones in it


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## Ahzweepay (Mar 24, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> my first time with an aeroponic cloner, i had root rot, not for cloning for the sake of vegging after they rooted, im am confident that if you can keep it under 80, you will have roots before any root rot takes hold, i have seen and heard of people putting heaters in the cloners, also i dont know if you ever worked with hydrogen peroxide but that helps keep shit at bay, change out the water every few days and you will have roots real fast, just dont leave rooted clones in it


I'm a big fan of H2O2, but as of now have no way to get the good stuff (35%). My veg tank has been doing great since I've been using H2O2, but can't see buying the super-dilute drug store version  

Do you just use tap water in your cloner? Do you use any other cloning/cleaning solutions like PowerClone/clonex/hydroguard? My cloner came with a bottle of PowerClone solution and AquaShield (hydroguard's apparent replacement) so I have it running with the recommended amounts of each. 

I guess once I run out of my last precious drops of H2O2 I'll have to see how the AquaShield works in my main tanks. I hope it doesn't cause me headaches.


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## Ahzweepay (Mar 27, 2009)

Well, it would seem that something is happening to my clones. I have a feeling it's all good, but thought I'd post a couple pics and see what y'all think...

Basically many of the bottoms are getting a clearish covering. It kinda looks like there may be little root tips forming in it, but then again I dunno. 

So, whatcha think??? Good signs or Goo (AKA funk/fungus/not good)??


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 27, 2009)

look for lil white dots, like baby stumps


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 27, 2009)

Ahzweepay said:


> I'm a big fan of H2O2, but as of now have no way to get the good stuff (35%). My veg tank has been doing great since I've been using H2O2, but can't see buying the super-dilute drug store version
> 
> Do you just use tap water in your cloner? Do you use any other cloning/cleaning solutions like PowerClone/clonex/hydroguard? My cloner came with a bottle of PowerClone solution and AquaShield (hydroguard's apparent replacement) so I have it running with the recommended amounts of each.
> 
> I guess once I run out of my last precious drops of H2O2 I'll have to see how the AquaShield works in my main tanks. I hope it doesn't cause me headaches.


 personally i never used anything but PH'd water, i once tried shultz powder but it washes off as you know, with nothing in the water i seen roots in as little as 4 days


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## Ahzweepay (Mar 30, 2009)

I think I'm seeing some nubbins forming on several of my clones. It's been 8 days now, so hopefully...

Anyhoo - here's a couple of pictures, they don't show it super-well, but whataryagonnado...


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 30, 2009)

getting there, the best sign is, they are 8 days and still alive!!! and look very green, thats how they should look


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## Ahzweepay (Apr 4, 2009)

Looks like I'm gonna finally get some flowerable clones here (knock on wood) - several are now popping roots, and several more look like they'll pop any time now!

I've decided to go with changing the clone machine tank on Saturdays and Wednesdays. The only thing I'm adding to the water is 13ml AquaShield and lowing the pH to 5.6. Seems the pH creeps up a bit more than my main tank, but nothing a little pH down can't take care of.
While rinsing the clone machine I noticed one of the sprayers wasn't working quite right, so I replaced it. If you look at the picture of the clone tops you'll see a couple in the corner that look quite yellow w/browning tips - that's where the issue was...

I guess it's prolly about time to get my flower room ready for some new friends


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## Ahzweepay (Apr 4, 2009)

Ahzweepay said:


> Well, it would seem that something is happening to my clones. I have a feeling it's all good, but thought I'd post a couple pics and see what y'all think...
> 
> Basically many of the bottoms are getting a clearish covering. It kinda looks like there may be little root tips forming in it, but then again I dunno.
> 
> So, whatcha think??? Good signs or Goo (AKA funk/fungus/not good)??


Upon further inspection, and the passage of some time, I am convinced that the goo I see is just left over from the clone gel I used. Next time around I will try half w/gel and half w/o and see how that goes...


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 5, 2009)

dude in an aero setup, you dont need nothing just ph the water, anything you dip them in will wash off fast and make you think some kinda funk is going on in the water, looking good


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## Ahzweepay (Apr 7, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> dude in an aero setup, you dont need nothing just ph the water, anything you dip them in will wash off fast and make you think some kinda funk is going on in the water, looking good


I totally agree - was given the advice to use the clone gel from the guy at the hydro shop. 

Lots of little root-lins are showing now! Updated image attached.

Anyone know of a good post/image or 2 showing how developed your roots should be before sticking them into pots? I plan to put these right in my flower room once they are ready. I realize they have a ways to go...


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## Ahzweepay (Apr 8, 2009)

Roots-a-poppin all over the place now 

Changed my clone tank water tonight - added 10ml AquaShield and 3 drops of SuperThrive, then pH'd it to 5.4.

Updated image attached...


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## Ahzweepay (Apr 14, 2009)

On Saturday I changed my clone tank and decided to give the clones a little more SuperThrive (.25ml), Hygrozyme (12ml), AquaShiled (10ml) and an air stone. Set the pH to 5.1 and let 'er go. The next day (about 24hrs later) I checked the pH and it was up to 7.2! I lowered it to 5.1 again, and checked 6hrs later and it was back to 6.9. Something definitely wasn't right, so I dumped the tank and started over. This time I went back to just water and AquaShield pH'd to 5.3. Checked the tank 16hrs later and it was at 6.1 (more on par with previous expectations) and lowered it to 5.1.

Hopefully this will get my root production going again - it has really slowed (image attached). 

I really wish I hadn't used the clone gel on this batch as I think it may have slowed things for me. Should I be giving these gals a little bit of nutrients now that they have some roots, or is plain water still good enough???


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## prnkstr (Apr 16, 2009)

During the first stages of root growth , I use just; Micro, Hygrozyme, Jumpstart, and Roots excelurator. Thats pretty much everything the little ladies need. and ph should stay around 5.4. Happy cloning!


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## Ahzweepay (Apr 19, 2009)

I don't really think they are ready yet, but my space is limited and I had to do something... I put 14 of 'em in the flower room today. 
On the one hand I feel like an idiot for doing it since I could be killing off any hope for them, but on the other hand I feel I've learned a lot about my new cloner and can likely get the next batch of clones ready much quicker. 

Flower room
I have my light set about 30" above the clones - will likely leave it there until I start to see new growth on the plants then move it to about 20" above.

I figure I'll leave them on a low dose of nutes a little longer than "normal" since they aren't quite ready to go yet.

Light is set for 12hr on/off, and I decided to go with 3 pump sessions per lights on. 1st is 20min after lights on (to give me time to check on things), 2nd is 5hr later and 3rd is 1hr before lights off.

I still need to get a pump for my flower tank's air stone & a second circulation fan, but they can wait a day or two.

This is my first attempt at doing a main tank w/o H2O2 (The Man's keepin me down  ) so I used 5ml/gal of AquaShield & 5ml/gal of Hygrozyme - hopefully that will keep the funk in control. Set the tank to pH 5.6 - 706ppm - .99mS/cm. Does that seem a bit "hot" for starters? 

I guess I'll be taking clones on 4/20 - how appropriate : :

Here's a shot of the tray as it was filling for the first feeding.


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## Ahzweepay (Apr 21, 2009)

The clones I threw into the flower room are doing OK - they aren't dead, but they look a bit gimpy. Actually I'm surprised none of them have keeled over yet 
I have the flower room set to pump 3x per lights on, and I've been hand watering (w/nutes) twice during lights on. Hopefully they will take hold and grow.

Did another batch of clones yesterday evening. My mothers were so over grown that it was hard to pick the best clones - lots of spindly little twigs, and most of the best ones were in various stages of light burn. More than 24hrs later and they are looking good too. Decided to go w/5ml Aquashield and 5ml Hygrozyme this time around. ...and I left the clone gel in the fridge...

Here's a couple shots of the mess


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## Ronjohn7779 (Apr 22, 2009)

Cool shit man. Very interesting. Mr. green is a character.


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## Ahzweepay (Apr 27, 2009)

Had an unfortunate incident with my pH meter over the weekend. I was checking the pH in my cloner when I bumped the tip on one of the sprayer nozzles. That slight bump broke the glass tip in the end of the probe - $100 later I had a replacement tip...

While at the grow shop I stumbled upon a stash of H2O2 that they were closing out (they got it from another shop the went belly-up). I can keep my mothers happily bathing in H2O2 for a bit longer now.

The lil ones in the flower room are still standing. Many appear to be showing the first signs of new growth, so I'm hopeful they will eventually make it.

The clones I took 6 days ago are starting to show root nubbins now - that's the quickest yet! 

I've noticed that the first actual roots on each clone seem to show up where the stem is held by the neoprine seal. If I push a clone down a bit, once it starts showing the white bumps (pre-roots), there are almost always a lot more bumps and/or actual roots up where the stem was in the seal. What's the deal with that? Does that point to it being too wet and therefore I should put my cloner on a schedule - something like 1min on 4min off rather than always on as the owners manual states??


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## brontobrandon1 (Apr 27, 2009)

wow this grow is looking real nice... so i have one question. when your clones get roots in the aero cloner do u just place the clone inside the net pot with the hydroton around it.. like do u not need like a rapid rooter to support the clone staying up??




later


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## Ahzweepay (Apr 27, 2009)

brontobrandon1 said:


> wow this grow is looking real nice... so i have one question. when your clones get roots in the aero cloner do u just place the clone inside the net pot with the hydroton around it.. like do u not need like a rapid rooter to support the clone staying up??


Thanks much! 

The first batch out of my cloner had to be taken before I felt they were ready (not too many roots). All I did was bury them fairly deep, the bottom of the stem is buried about half way down the pot, and they've stayed standing for over a week. I also kept the circulation fan turned off for the first week to give them time to set. 

As you know I'm no expert, but it seems to be working so far. The clones in the flower room are slowly starting to show signs of new growth...

My latest batch of clones (1 week in the cloner as of today) are doing great! Several plants have nice batches of roots starting, and most of the rest are showing lots of white bumps too 

Attached is a picture of the clones from earlier today and a picture of both halves fully lit...


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## Mcgician (Apr 28, 2009)

So did you abandon the top feed drip system and just go fully ebb and flow? That's what it looks like based on the pics, but sorry, I only read about half the thread. btw, you need to bury those rockwool cubes beneath the hydroton to keep algae from growing on the top. (in case you already didn't know) Good job though, way to go.


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## brontobrandon1 (Apr 28, 2009)

Ahzweepay said:


> Thanks much!
> 
> The first batch out of my cloner had to be taken before I felt they were ready (not too many roots). All I did was bury them fairly deep, the bottom of the stem is buried about half way down the pot, and they've stayed standing for over a week. I also kept the circulation fan turned off for the first week to give them time to set.
> 
> ...



Dammm alright ya that makes since now, thats what I was thinking, but I've never had experience with a aero cloner.. im def gonna buy one of those so the clones wont take up room in my veg ebb and flow table..

The clones can grow at a pretty good size in the aero cloner right.. like i could veg a extra week in there jus so my plants get a little bigger?? ( my clones are fairly small)

Im lovin the pics of both rooms, i cant wait to get my perpetual grow started


later bro


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 28, 2009)

hey AWP, happy to hear you got nubblets!! i get that too from time to time roots half way up the stem under the neoprene, i think your right, if water is on too long it gets soaked under there, personally i played with the times a lot and came up with 30/30 even if you left it on for 1 min, i noticed the neoprene gets wet and water runs down the whole stem, this alone is good enough to clone with, 15/45 also work well for me and to be honest, i had poor results when i left it on all day, they tend to lean over like they are suffocated


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 28, 2009)

brontobrandon1 said:


> Dammm alright ya that makes since now, thats what I was thinking, but I've never had experience with a aero cloner.. im def gonna buy one of those so the clones wont take up room in my veg ebb and flow table..
> 
> The clones can grow at a pretty good size in the aero cloner right.. like i could veg a extra week in there jus so my plants get a little bigger?? ( my clones are fairly small)
> 
> ...


 oh yea! after you see roots you can definitly leave em in there for a few weeks and let them get beefed up, if your a little handy you can save yourself some cash and build a good cloner for $60


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## brontobrandon1 (Apr 28, 2009)

haha thats the problem, im not handy at all... but to be honest it really doesnt look TO difficult to build ya no


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## Ahzweepay (Apr 28, 2009)

Mcgician said:


> So did you abandon the top feed drip system and just go fully ebb and flow? That's what it looks like based on the pics, but sorry, I only read about half the thread. btw, you need to bury those rockwool cubes beneath the hydroton to keep algae from growing on the top. (in case you already didn't know) Good job though, way to go.


Nope - didn't abandon the drip system. I use the drip system on the Veg side for the mothers and the ebb/flow system for flowering (just like Mr Green). 

When I initially put the mothers in pots I didn't know about burying the rockwool cubes. I have covered them with some squares of panda plastic, and plan to swap them out with some new mothers as soon as I get a decent batch of clones (hopefully this batch). 

Thanks


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## Ahzweepay (Apr 28, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> hey AWP, happy to hear you got nubblets!! i get that too from time to time roots half way up the stem under the neoprene, i think your right, if water is on too long it gets soaked under there, personally i played with the times a lot and came up with 30/30 even if you left it on for 1 min, i noticed the neoprene gets wet and water runs down the whole stem, this alone is good enough to clone with, 15/45 also work well for me and to be honest, i had poor results when i left it on all day, they tend to lean over like they are suffocated


When you say "30/30" do you mean 30min on & 30min off?


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 29, 2009)

yes, i wouldnt steer you wrong bro, i think any como of 15 on up to 60min off is fine....15/30 or 15/45 i think you would like, when i first started messing with aeroponics, i discovered how roots are scavengers, the more i would leave the sprayers on, the less they would grow, when i started giving less on time they would grow down looking for water until they sat in the bath


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## Ahzweepay (Apr 29, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> yes, i wouldnt steer you wrong bro, i think any como of 15 on up to 60min off is fine....15/30 or 15/45 i think you would like, when i first started messing with aeroponics, i discovered how roots are scavengers, the more i would leave the sprayers on, the less they would grow, when i started giving less on time they would grow down looking for water until they sat in the bath


Didn't think you were steering me wrong - just wanted to make sure I understood.
Thanks for the clarification 

Are you using an "expensive" cycle timer on yours?


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## Stussy (Apr 30, 2009)

aWESOME, HEAPS OF INFO


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 30, 2009)

nah, just the 15min segment timers HTG gives with they're setups, i cant find them anywhere but hydro shops, also those cap 1/5 timers arent programmable, and expensive for a timer


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## Ahzweepay (Apr 30, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> nah, just the 15min segment timers HTG gives with they're setups, i cant find them anywhere but hydro shops, also those cap 1/5 timers arent programmable, and expensive for a timer


Cool - I get whatcha mean now. 
Looks like I can get one around here for about $18, much better


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## Ahzweepay (May 6, 2009)

I got the 15min segment timer installed and set to run 15on & 15off. So far it seems to be working as well or better than before. I'm really interested to see if I get less of the roots starting in the neoprene on the next run.

Decided that 3 of the plants I put in to flower were a bit too far behind the rest, so replaced them with the 3 best clones from this current batch. I'm hoping since the first batch I put in to flower weren't really ready to go that they will 'average out' with these 3 new ones. I decided to leave them on my current week 1 nutes for another week to give the new additions time to get settled. 

I also did my first lollipoppin! I've added a picture of a plant before and after the lollipoppin. Does it look like I did it right?

I was pretty sure my plants were all girls, but now I know for sure 

I've also attached a picture of the Flower Tray after the lollipoppin and one of the clone roots from my aerocloner. In the next couple of days I'll be transferring the best clone from each mother to pots of hydroton. These will be placed in a side tray in my Veg room until they are big enough to replace their original mothers.


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## Stussy (May 7, 2009)

Hey Ahz, you seem to be pretty experienced in mr greens gig.

I've just started a new crop about 3 weeks ago using Greens aero setup straight off ( 1st time for this type of setup, usually I let them grow outside in soil so I'm new to hydro/aero ), have been using Dutchmaster original a/b at half strength, when would you say it would be best to go full strength? I run my ph at 6.0 with no probs. Also have you ever used Dutchmaster? Do I need to add anything else to help them along bigger?


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## morrisgreenberg (May 7, 2009)

hey those roots like they are gonna bite somebody! i have had trainwreck in my cloner for a week now and still nothing, then i realized where i had them got too cold at night, clones like warmer water, some people even put heaters in the cloner, ontop of that i find out trainwreck is a hard strain to clone, they better show roots soon cus i may not have anything to clone in a few days


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## Ahzweepay (May 7, 2009)

Stussy said:


> Hey Ahz, you seem to be pretty experienced in mr greens gig.
> 
> I've just started a new crop about 3 weeks ago using Greens aero setup straight off ( 1st time for this type of setup, usually I let them grow outside in soil so I'm new to hydro/aero ), have been using Dutchmaster original a/b at half strength, when would you say it would be best to go full strength? I run my ph at 6.0 with no probs. Also have you ever used Dutchmaster? Do I need to add anything else to help them along bigger?



This is my first grow, so I'm no pro, but the information that I went by was this...

When you see a second set of true leaves (don't count those first leaves that pop up from a seedling) then you can switch to full strength nutes - this will be approx 2 weeks after starting on the 1/2 strength nutes.

...My first batch took about 3 weeks before I went to full strength, but I had some overwatering issues in the beginning that slowed them down.

I've not used Dutchmaster nutes, just the Gen Hydro 3 part series - no other fancy additives or anything. I just use the nutes and some H2O2 . H2O2 is an awesome way to keep your tank clean and plants happy. You just need to make sure your nutes are not "organic based" when using H2O2 (I think you're safe with Dutchmaster, but not positive). The Al B Fuct recommended amounts of H2O2 are 5ml/Gal of 35% H2O2. The problem I've run into as of late is that the hydro shops in my area have stopped carrying H2O2 due to it's possible use in bomb making/they get fined (The Man keepin me down).


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## Ahzweepay (May 7, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> hey those roots like they are gonna bite somebody! i have had trainwreck in my cloner for a week now and still nothing, then i realized where i had them got too cold at night, clones like warmer water, some people even put heaters in the cloner, ontop of that i find out trainwreck is a hard strain to clone, they better show roots soon cus i may not have anything to clone in a few days


WOO HOO!! Lovin them roots 

I've gotta say that getting that aerocloner was one of the best purchases for my operation.

How cold were they getting at night? Is it the water temp that was getting too low, or just the air temp?

I wish I was sure of which strain I'm growing (bag seed collection from many bags), but at least this way I can get the kinks worked out of the operation before I purchase seeds/clones. Once I get this batch through I hope to get ahold of some Blueberry and Hog


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## morrisgreenberg (May 7, 2009)

both,air temp went to 60 at night and 68 in the day, water temps were around 65-68, i have excellent results at over 70 and up to 75water temps, like 3 days and i get nublets and by 7 days a full root system


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## Ahzweepay (May 7, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> both,air temp went to 60 at night and 68 in the day, water temps were around 65-68, i have excellent results at over 70 and up to 75water temps, like 3 days and i get nublets and by 7 days a full root system


Mine's been running around 74 for water temps, and the room is between 75 and 80. It's just crazy how a little difference in the environment can make such a big difference in the results.

I'm happy to report that the plants in my flower room are perking up nicely, and a few are showing some lovely little crystals


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## morrisgreenberg (May 7, 2009)

thats why h2o2 isnt around, my local shop said it was discontinued, i used grotek 35% @3/ml per gal, i have to buy quarts of 3% now, but for cleaning purposes, but 35% is no joke, you get that on your hands and your skin turns white and burns, i guess we're all better off just using 25ML of the watered down stuff


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## naturalhigh (May 8, 2009)

i dont want to rain on your parade but those plants don't seem big enough for a flowering chamber and you dont really lollipop till there at least a foot or soo ...your better bet is stop watching that green dressed up dude..and switch to urban grower....urbangrower.com ....you grow to 2 feet...chop done to 12 inchs let it regro to 18 inchs..then you lollipop...good luck...


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## GypsyBush (May 8, 2009)

Subscribed...

I wanna go back and read now...

But I must ask...

NaturalHigh... I have GREAT respect for you and your grow... 

But I have no idea what you are talking about there...

Could you please elaborate on your lollipoping technique...?

I am new to all this and you just lost me there for a sec...

Thanks...!!!

Oh and here is my latest updates.. I'd appreciate any comments or tips...

Cheers






https://www.rollitup.org/2472376-post115.html
https://www.rollitup.org/2472369-post746.html


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## YaK (May 8, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> thats why h2o2 isnt around, my local shop said it was discontinued, i used grotek 35% @3/ml per gal, i have to buy quarts of 3% now, but for cleaning purposes, but 35% is no joke, you get that on your hands and your skin turns white and burns, i guess we're all better off just using 25ML of the watered down stuff


I still get gallons of 35% at bghydro.com, it goes under the product name "Oxyblast" ... or something very similar.

I wont go the 3% route, so hopefully they'll continue to carry it, otherwise I'll end up having to experiment with some other form of pathogen control. ugh.


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## GypsyBush (May 8, 2009)

Hey guys...

Sorry to barge in...

I found this to be extremely useful...

We were discussing this type of thing here the other day...

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/113191-hydroponic-perpetual-grow-community-72.html

Thought I'd share...

I found a very similar one on H2O2... I'll see about bringing it to you...

Cheers...


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## GypsyBush (May 8, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Hey guys...
> 
> Sorry to barge in...
> 
> ...


I found it...

I hope this helps people put...


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## YaK (May 8, 2009)

I read that article in an Urban Gardener mag that I got for free at a hydro shop. 

probably great info... however, AlBfuct's methods include it, and he gets good results. I fear the pathogens, so I use it too, and I also get good results... I finally tried H2O2 after too many bouts with pythium.

There's more than one way to skin a cat! I know one thing though, and that is that I can grow excellent stuff with just GH fora series nutes, and H2O2, no additives.

I apologize for the thread jack, I just wanted to chime in on where I get my Hydrogen Peroxide 35% at.


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## GypsyBush (May 8, 2009)

I was just trying to get people's opinion, I don't take it as truth just cause I saw it on the magazine...lol...

I am new to all this and just trying to sort it all out...

As Yak said... apologies for the thread jack...

BTW.. I am familiar w/ Fuct's op... I am actually trying to mimic it... with a few differences to suit my hand...

I would love your opinion...

Cheers...
https://www.rollitup.org/2472376-post115.html
https://www.rollitup.org/2472369-post746.html


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## Ahzweepay (May 8, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I was just trying to get people's opinion, I don't take it as truth just cause I saw it on the magazine...lol...
> 
> I am new to all this and just trying to sort it all out...
> 
> ...


No apologies necessary - I love the input! 

I didn't really realize H2O2 was doing all that, but once ya think about it, it does make a lot of sense. All I know for sure is that the first couple tanks I did were quite scummy by the end of a week, and since I've used the H2O2 it's been much less.

I'm experimenting with AquaShield and Hygrozyme in my flower & clone tanks. I've been upping the amounts of each of them when I do a flower tank change (seems 5ml each in my 2gal aerocloner works really well, so no more uppin there). I haven't had my tank out to really look it over this week, but will tomorrow evening when I do the change. I'm up to 100ml ea in the 14gal tank.

I just got done potting 3 more of this batch of clones - these will be replacement mothers. I've attached a couple pictures from the potting, one of the remaining clones (prior to potting), and one of the veg room after setting up my rickety side tray for the new mothers.


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## GypsyBush (May 8, 2009)

Very nice...

Nice clone action for sure...

I am still stuck in the RW cubes with the occasional RR plug...

It would be nice to build an aerocloner...

Do you run a timer on yours?

Cheers!

Oh and I love Hygrozyme...

Nice white roots.. no slime at all....


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## Ahzweepay (May 8, 2009)

YaK said:


> I still get gallons of 35% at bghydro.com, it goes under the product name "Oxyblast" ... or something very similar.
> 
> I wont go the 3% route, so hopefully they'll continue to carry it, otherwise I'll end up having to experiment with some other form of pathogen control. ugh.


Thanks for the info! 

I've not ordered anything for my operation online as of yet - little nervous due to my state not being Medical Marijuana friendly (don't wanna end up on some list  ). The price per gallon from BGHydro ($30) seems pretty good - I was paying $13 a quart previously.


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## Ahzweepay (May 8, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Very nice...
> 
> Nice clone action for sure...
> 
> ...



Yep - after chatting with a few people on RIU (props to morrisgreenberg) I added a 15min segment timer. I have it set for 15on/15off for this round. My roots have really taken off since I added it - coulda been because they were in the machine for about a week before I added the timer tho...


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## Ahzweepay (May 8, 2009)

naturalhigh said:


> i dont want to rain on your parade but those plants don't seem big enough for a flowering chamber and you dont really lollipop till there at least a foot or soo ...your better bet is stop watching that green dressed up dude..and switch to urban grower....urbangrower.com ....you grow to 2 feet...chop done to 12 inchs let it regro to 18 inchs..then you lollipop...good luck...


I've never heard of lollipoppin being done in quite that manner - I'll definitely check out the info on urbangrower and see what that's all about. 
--> Found some info on Urban Grower - Vol 35 Pruning. If that's what you're referring to then I can understand where you're coming from. The difference is that he's growing monster pants in a huge space - I'd do the same if I had more space... 

I want my plants to be small due to space constraints - don't have a ton of head space. This is also my first batch in the flowering room, so I'm fixing the glitches as they come up 

The "green dressed up dude" didn't go into lollipopping plants at all - he seemed to be more of a "bush" grower. 

I learned about lollipopping while researching grow room setups here on RIU and other sites, and thought it was the way to go. The Al B Fuct method is to cut 9" clones and once you get roots ya throw them in the flower room - the clones currently in my flower room were between 6 and 9" when they were cut - perhaps I buried them too deep in the hydroton?


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## morrisgreenberg (May 8, 2009)

gypsy i know you asked the other guy to elaborate about lollipopping techniques, your grow my firned is the epitome of lollipoping, it is us should be asking you about your technique


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## morrisgreenberg (May 9, 2009)

AWP, all them clones rooted nicely, i also noticed you left some more "meat" on them bones, didnt you notice the barrier effect i spoke about a while back? i think your golden with 6-9in clones, as they flower just make sure to trim off the little popcorn thats gonna try to grow at the bottom of the stalk, if you dont you will get small undesirable sidebranching that aint for the energy expended by the plant.you will end up with drum sticks! gypsy's grow is perfect for little head space, although, a contructive criticism, i think his tables are a little too high for my tastes, but works great for him obviously, i like to have options personally and woulda made a table not as tall so i can grow out larger plants if i so choose, i just put up a 3x3 table for mothers and i got the tray 20inchs off the ground and keep them a decent distance from the 1000w, but if you look at gypsy's op(props to you gypsy) you can tell he has fast turnaround, prolly rocking a harvest every 55days, SOG in soil sucks, to hook up 40 plants although i got great yield, was a ton of work to water and flush, but was a success and a good learning process, AWP i think that cloner although i build em myself, was a perfect investment for you and watching the frustration from a few weeks ago and dead clones, im actually thrilled that yuor op no matter the size is gonna turn into a factory!


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## GypsyBush (May 9, 2009)

Hahaha.. 

MG that is very kind of you to say...

Everything that you see has been copied from others... mostly Al...

The lollipop technique is 100% Al B. Fuct... down to the RW cubes being water by weight...lol...

I did change the RW floc for straight Hydroton in my pots... and again as Al B. Fuct suggests... with the cube 1/2" above the flood...

As for the height of the trays... this is where one realizes I am still a newb...

But I have my excuses...

I built all the frame work, up and down stairs, on crutches.. by myself..lol... lots of cursing involved...lol..

I also built the frame to accomodate the trays hanging from the outer lip... but I quickly realized that there was just too much flex and something bad woul happen soon...

So I moved the trays up and supported them with 2x4s...

The end result was that I lost 7 or 8 inches on my already high trays...

So... yeah, I would rather have the tray lower and lower the light to it than raise the whole set up like I did...

Fucking newbs.. lol...


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## morrisgreenberg (May 9, 2009)

freakin newbs lol, you dont really need anything else its perfect, i see a small army of clones holding spears, so i dont think i can tell you anything at this point =)


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## Ahzweepay (May 9, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> freakin newbs lol, you dont really need anything else its perfect, i see a small army of clones holding spears, so i dont think i can tell you anything at this point =)





GypsyBush said:


> The end result was that I lost 7 or 8 inches on my already high trays...
> 
> So... yeah, I would rather have the tray lower and lower the light to it than raise the whole set up like I did...
> 
> Fucking newbs.. lol...


It's pretty amazing what us freakin newbs can do with a little help! 

You guys rock! I really appreciate all your input ::


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## GypsyBush (May 9, 2009)

ALL HAIL AL B. FUCT !!!!

hahaha... 

serious though... the man has shown me the light....


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## morrisgreenberg (May 9, 2009)

gypsy, i know you can do serious damage, probably double your output turnng that room into an aero gro, perfect for single cola soggin, forget arms, im talking colas the size of a chubby girl's cankles


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## Ahzweepay (May 10, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> colas the size of a chubby girl's cankles


LMAO - That's quite the comparison


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## morrisgreenberg (May 10, 2009)

whats the dimensions of your space Az? i know you seen stink buds thread, and i see gypsy like build stuff, i had a 3x6 closet, one tube aero grow, spaced out the sites and grew bushes, very versitle systems, also the same kush strain took 70days in soil, finished in 50 aero, i know flood and drain and top feed cant compare to that


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## GypsyBush (May 10, 2009)

Shit... I could triple my yields if I just quit fucking up...!!!

2 months ago I accidentally spilled some of Gypsy's Miniaturizing Potion on a batch of clones...

It wa just a little, so I thought it'd be all right...

Fuck was I wrong... lol..

Although these are not full fledged miniatures...they are too fucking small...

You speak of cankles... I'll be lucky to get a oinky toe out of each this time...

It's only a partial tray, but for sure it is my lowest G/W EVER... even the aerogarden did better...

Fuck!!!

Yeah and you guys think I am some kinda hot shot... lol...

Well, here is a pic of my fuck up...lol...


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## GypsyBush (May 10, 2009)

I go for ebb flow because I am a lazy stoner...lol..

It's deff. not the most efficient, but by golly! it lets me be lazy...lol...


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## GypsyBush (May 10, 2009)

But I really want to look into foggers..

Have you seen NG's new grow?

Check this...My Journal and also his How To: Cheat on a High School Math Test

He does DWC/Fogger... 

But there is a company called "Nutramist" or something that does Ebb/Flow plus fogger ..

They even have a retrofit kit...

like this..

http://www.nutramist.com/retrofit.html







But like I said I am lazy...lol..

So I will probably stick to this for now...

I would love to grow some BIG TREES like MBlaze... I just can't justify the veg time...

Right now, if I wanted to grow like him, I would have at least 5 to 6 months with no harvest...

Coming from a harvest every 2 weeks, that is hard....

There are so many options...lol...

Dude... I'm like... sooo baked on kief right now...lol...


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## morrisgreenberg (May 10, 2009)

looked like you got a few zips on those screens, i imagine you get a solid harvest monthly with all those tables, i got a great idea for you, the screen setup is good, grab some black poly and make that a tent, i use an Al tote drying techniqe with bathroom exhaust fans, works great but since shelved it since i dont trust things drying too fast, ican wait the 5-7 days, my issues is curing, i got tons of glass jars but i want larger, any ideas? like enough room for a couple elbows


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## GypsyBush (May 10, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> looked like you got a few zips on those screens,


Yeah.. should be triple that if not more...



morrisgreenberg said:


> i imagine you get a solid harvest monthly with all those tables,


Every two weeks..lol...



morrisgreenberg said:


> i got a great idea for you,


Shoot...



morrisgreenberg said:


> the screen setup is good,


Thanks! 

It's crude, but it works...



morrisgreenberg said:


> grab some black poly and make that a tent,


Uh... the screens hang insode of a beautiful antique wardrobe...lol..

Do I really need a tent?...lol..



morrisgreenberg said:


> i use an Al tote drying techniqe with bathroom exhaust fans, works great but since shelved it since i dont trust things drying too fast,


That is why I have it thermostatically controlled... to 75F

I regulate the temperature...



morrisgreenberg said:


> ican wait the 5-7 days, my issues is curing,


Sure, this is not a way to fast cure... it's just my permanent drying rack inside of my wardrobe...lol...

I do have a heater to keep the cold away, a small circ fan and and exhaust fan...



morrisgreenberg said:


> i got tons of glass jars but i want larger, any ideas? like enough room for a couple elbows


I would stay away from that idea...

But that's just me....

I like doing it a bit at a time... no more than 1oz.. even if there's 20... ...lol..


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## morrisgreenberg (May 10, 2009)

what do i do, i fit a z in a mason jar, not cool when you have 160 of them =x


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## GypsyBush (May 10, 2009)

OH...

well, I have never had to deal with that.. sorry..

I imagine a vacuum packer would do.. but I really have no idea...

I have seen sealed 55 gallon drums of weed, but I still would not go that route...

I'm just small time I guess...lol..


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## Ahzweepay (May 10, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> whats the dimensions of your space Az?


Veg side is 26" Deep x 44" Wide x 71" Tall
Flower side is 26" Deep x 48" Wide x 71" Tall
It's a largish closet in the basement - insulated it and made it a grow room 



GypsyBush said:


> OH...
> 
> well, I have never had to deal with that.. sorry..
> 
> ...



I'm dreaming of the day I have the issue of not knowing what to do with all my weed 

...for now I'm just happy I have a batch of girls in the flower room!


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## Ahzweepay (May 14, 2009)

Things seem to be progressing quite nicely. 
The 3 plants I introduced to the flower side late are now starting to show flowers 

They will likely spend a little more time in there than the rest, but no big whoop.

2 of the new mothers are starting to show some good signs, but one is a bit gimpy. Hopefully it'll pull outta it.

Topped off both nute tanks today - added a gallon of water to each & lowered pH to 5.6.

This weekend I plan to do a little more cleanup on the gals in the flower room - lollipoppin.

Here's a few new pic's for your enjoyment...


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## morrisgreenberg (May 14, 2009)

lookin good and strong bro, 6 out of 18 of my trainwrecks finally rooted and few others are showing "nublets" 14 days in the cloner...let me tell you something, in the aero cloner i never do anything to the stems, when i use RW i usually give the stems a good scraping, a few days ago the clones werent doing good, i changed water, added 250ppm of cal-mag, fresh cut them and scraped, and foliar some diamond nectar, and in 3 days success. this is an old florist's technique for fresh flowers to help them drink right away, and also gets through that touch outer skin so nublets can form


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## Ahzweepay (May 14, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> lookin good and strong bro, 6 out of 18 of my trainwrecks finally rooted and few others are showing "nublets" 14 days in the cloner...let me tell you something, in the aero cloner i never do anything to the stems, when i use RW i usually give the stems a good scraping, a few days ago the clones werent doing good, i changed water, added 250ppm of cal-mag, fresh cut them and scraped, and foliar some diamond nectar, and in 3 days success. this is an old florist's technique for fresh flowers to help them drink right away, and also gets through that touch outer skin so nublets can form


Note to self taken!

Congrats on getting those tough bitches to root 

I had tried scraping my clones when I was using rockwool, but it didn't get me anywhere. I haven't tried to scrape any since getting the cloner - I'll have to try some on my next batch and see if I notice a difference. Do you put CalMag in your cloner normally, or just as part of this technique?


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## morrisgreenberg (May 15, 2009)

not a all, my tape water is great 25ppm and PH of 7.1, i just knew after a while the plants needed a boost, showing N p an K defs, the nutes i used had very small amounts of these, it stopped any and all discolorations and kept some leaves intake


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## Ahzweepay (May 27, 2009)

I'm happy to report that things seem to be progressing along nicely. 

The 3 taller plants in the full table pictures are the ones that replaced 3 of the original plants. These 3 were put in 2 weeks after the rest. I guess that pretty well illustrates what happens when you put clones in to flower before they have good roots...

As you can see, from the close up pictures of one of the smaller flowering plants (side and top), the original plants have recovered nicely and are packing on some nice buds. They're just a bit shorter than they should be, but I think they'll turn out just fine for my first batch 

I also included a pic of one of the replacement plants in the flower side and a pic of the 3 new replacement mothers I have growing in my veg room.

The original flowering plants are now on week 6 and the 3 replacements are on week 4. I had let the original plants go with the week 1 nutes for 3 weeks so the current nute schedule is for week 4. It's pretty obvious that the original plants are going to be harvested a bit earlier than the replacements tho...

One thing that's been buggin' me is the daily pH increase in my flower tank. I'm finding that it's going up between .6 & .9 in 24hrs. Meanwhile the veg tank goes up between .3 & .5 after the first day and then moves up maybe .3 total over the rest of the week. The differences are the nutes - veg vs flower - and my choice of pathogen control - AquaShield & Hygrozyme in flower & H2O2 in the veg. Due to that I'm going to try an experiment for the next couple of weeks and change my flower tank to run with H2O2 instead of AS/Hygro. The AS/Hygro combo is being tried because I can no longer get H2O2 locally (although I have been pointed to BGHydro as a source for getting it online). A few weeks back I came upon a little stash of H2O2, so figure why not give it a shot. I'm guessing it may be a bit ugly for the first week as the H2O2 does it's thing, but am hoping that after a week or so the pH issues will subside a bit.
Any thoughts???


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## prnkstr (May 28, 2009)

nice dude they are coming along! Good to see your getting your setup fine tuned looks sweet! Ill post an update to mine soon so you can see how im doing as well


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## morrisgreenberg (May 28, 2009)

everythings looking good, may ask, how do you run your dripper system? at what lengths and night time drips?


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## Keyzer (May 28, 2009)

Looks great! Glad to see an update from you. I as well found the Mr. Green video inspiring, & from there I just kept looking online. It's how I found this place. Just wanted to say I'm watching & thanks for the update.


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## Ahzweepay (May 28, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> everythings looking good, may ask, how do you run your dripper system? at what lengths and night time drips?


I run my dripper 4x per lights on (just upped it from 3x per lights on) for 15min each time. I'm currently running my veg room w/18hrs of lights on (helps with heat issues from the flower side), and have the last dripper run set for an hour before lights out.


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## Ahzweepay (May 28, 2009)

Keyzer said:


> Looks great! Glad to see an update from you. I as well found the Mr. Green video inspiring, & from there I just kept looking online. It's how I found this place. Just wanted to say I'm watching & thanks for the update.


Thanks!
I have to say the Mr Green video was what gave me the guts to give this growing thing a try, but the people on RIU have really helped get me to where I am today.


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## morrisgreenberg (May 28, 2009)

bcus of RIU, you can get through any hurdle, all these videos dont cover problems indept


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## Ahzweepay (Jun 11, 2009)

Things have been progressing nicely, so I decided to take a plant on the early side (for future reference). 

The first 4 pictures attached are of the first plant I chose. This plant didn't have the "at least 50% amber hairs" which is why I say it was early. Any comments on how I trimmed it are appreciated.

I also attached a shot of my bud driers. Not sure if they are gonna cut it being chained together, but we'll see. So far it's doing its job well (with only 2 plants and none yet finished)...

The next batch of photos are from this evening. The 3 plants I added 2 weeks in have really taken off, so I took one of them (again on the early side). The one I took had at least 50% amber hairs, but the trichromes, at least the ones I could see on the leaves, didn't seem too milky to me (nor amber). I attached a couple pictures taken through my little microscope thing. Let me know whatcha think on this one as well.

By the way things are going I'd say the remaining 8's (tall ones) will get harvested this weekend. I'll likely have to wait a bit longer on the others - want to make sure they're good-n-ripe before I pick 'em.

...in preparation for the upcoming harvest I did a batch of clones on Sunday afternoon. I took 6 from each of my 4 mothers. I also replaced 3 of the original mothers with their clone offspring. Just 1 mother left to get a replacement for and I'll be totally without rockwool in my system! (pictures attached)

From seeing how the different plants have changed during flowering I'm now thinking that I've got 2, maybe 3 different strains. Will be interesting to see how they all turn out and compare to next round when they will all have good roots 

I'd appreciate any thoughts/suggestions on how much longer these should have gone, etc.

...oh yeah! I smoked a bowl from the first plant harvested (some bud chunks that accidentally got trimmed). Twas a bit grassy tasting, but had some decent kick - sticky-n-skunky.


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## LiEBE420 (Jun 11, 2009)

looking good man!

happy growing!


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## bluebeard (Jun 11, 2009)

Looks really good. I started my plants 10 days ago (Mr Green set up). You said your not using rockwool what are you using and why?
When did you start your plants?


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## Keyzer (Jun 11, 2009)

The trim job looks great bro!! I'm on my blackberry I zoomed in  keep up the good work I'm enjoying the pics!! I'm at work if people only knew what I was looking at on my phone.


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## Ahzweepay (Jun 11, 2009)

bluebeard said:


> Looks really good. I started my plants 10 days ago (Mr Green set up). You said your not using rockwool what are you using and why?
> When did you start your plants?


My plants were started from seeds on October 31st 2008. I had a ton of trouble cloning using rockwool, but once I switched to an aerocloner things got much better. I have noticed that the rockwool seems to be a place where mold and other non-desireable gunk will collect. Part of my issue is that I didn't bury my rockwool in hydroton, but I still feel I'm better off without it. 

At this point I use the aerocloner for my clones and then just put them directly into pots of hydroton.

Good luck with your grow!


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## Ahzweepay (Jun 11, 2009)

Keyzer said:


> The trim job looks great bro!! I'm on my blackberry I zoomed in  keep up the good work I'm enjoying the pics!! I'm at work if people only knew what I was looking at on my phone.


Thanks for your input!

I'm "at work" too, but nobody I work with has a chance of seeing what I'm looking at since I'm working from home


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## madazz (Jun 14, 2009)

sweet grow dude!! come check mine out. i reckon u will like!

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/201627-2400-watts-12-slabs-canna.html#post2588156


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## Ahzweepay (Jun 19, 2009)

I've been harvesting a plant every other day now. Just trying to see how much of a difference there is day to day. 

The dryer seems to be doing it's job quite well thusfar, though I don't yet know how it works with a full load. My normal connection has been dry for a week now, so I've been forced to smoke some of my grow a little before its time. 

Overall I'm finding it to be a good learning experience even if I've smoked some that was a little more green tasting than I like. At this point I have enough in the dryer/jars that I don't have to worry about that anymore bigjoint

Last night I harvested one of the 2 #16 plants. I've been getting a decent whiff of skunk each time I go into the flower closet, but once I cut the stem on that #16 it really blasted the room with skunky goodness!!! I've attached a few pictures of the plant before and after the trimmin' along with a shot of the trichromes.

Also attached is a picture of my clone roots on day 8 in the cloner.

Good times... Good times...


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## Ahzweepay (Jun 25, 2009)

Well, after a very long wait I have finally finished with my first grow!! 

I had some luck along the way (all the seeds I started turned out to be female) and some difficulties (rooting clones using rockwool). I'm still fighting a heat issue in my flower room, but otherwise I feel I have a nicely repeatable grow process started and know things will only get better.

I got a scale a bit late in the game so didn't get weights off everything, but the little plants I did weigh turned out to be about 1/4oz dried. I'm also happy to report that they are tasting ever-so-lovely and have a nice amount of kick too. They're not huge, but a great start for a newb with a black thumb 

Spent some time in the flower room cleaning up and doing some ventillation upgrades yesterday. 

The next batch of clones were planted in pots of hydroton (attached shots of the clone roots and the flower tray) and setup in the flower room last night - they are on their first 12hr stretch of darkness now...

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions along the way - I wouldn't have been successful without the help of my fellow RIU members


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## morrisgreenberg (Jun 25, 2009)

i see that cloner turned out to be a good investment, i am very happy for you and your plants look like fat boys, now after your first harvest it becomes second nature and flowering period seems like it flies by


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## brontobrandon1 (Jun 26, 2009)

DAM bro everything is looking legittt as fuck. On your aero cloner thing do you run intervals like 15 min on 15 min off or do u run the water 24/7?? im really looking to get one but im not to sure man. Also how long did it take you to get good roots like that?? 

Thanks bro, i hope everything goes well

late




Ahzweepay said:


> Well, after a very long wait I have finally finished with my first grow!!
> 
> I had some luck along the way (all the seeds I started turned out to be female) and some difficulties (rooting clones using rockwool). I'm still fighting a heat issue in my flower room, but otherwise I feel I have a nicely repeatable grow process started and know things will only get better.
> 
> ...


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## Ahzweepay (Jun 27, 2009)

brontobrandon1 said:


> DAM bro everything is looking legittt as fuck. On your aero cloner thing do you run intervals like 15 min on 15 min off or do u run the water 24/7?? im really looking to get one but im not to sure man. Also how long did it take you to get good roots like that??
> 
> Thanks bro, i hope everything goes well
> 
> late


Thanks!! 

I have my cloner set to run 15min on 15min off - been working great. Those clones were in the aerocloner for 15days total.


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## OkieDokie (Jun 28, 2009)

Looks VERY GOOD. Mr. Green ROCKS!


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## Ahzweepay (Aug 2, 2009)

As requested by waverider attached is my nute schedule - I make no claims that it's 100% correct/accurate, but seems to be doing the job...


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## morrisgreenberg (Aug 3, 2009)

your alive!


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## Ahzweepay (Aug 4, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> your alive!


Yep, I'm still alive and kickin' 

I figured since my first grow was done that I'd wrap this thread up, for the most part anyway.

I'm working on a second flower room (tent build) and plan to do another journal once I get that up and running. Should be in another couple of weeks.

I've attached a shot of my current grow (on week 6)


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## morrisgreenberg (Aug 7, 2009)

you've put some meat on those bones, funny thing about hydro is , i can spend all day in a garden but you dont have to, i remember luggin 5gallon pots around, i almost have too much time now


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