# No-Till and COBs/LED Strips (help)



## Treeckle (Nov 26, 2019)

Hello Rollitup! I need some advice please.
I am planning to build a grow room with COB lights and a no-till bed. I need help determining how many plants I should fit in my space, and how much light I need. It is not my first time doing COB and no-till, but quite some time has passed since I last dug into it, and I fell out of the loop.

The space I plan to use is roughly 2.5x8ft in size, and I was thinking it might be enough for at least 4 no-till plants. Or should I do more?

The COBs I'm looking at are Bridgelux Vero 29 C SE 68V, which seem to be pulling about 120W each at 1750mA. I'd use at least 4, so I can wire them all to one Meanwell 480H driver. This means there'd be only one COB per each plant. Is that enough?
However I'm not set on these COBs, and I'd happily change my plans depending on the suggestions I'm hoping you will provide!

EDIT: I have started thinking about LED strips as a possible substitute for COBs, based on suggestion the from @coreywebster!


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## coreywebster (Nov 26, 2019)

Cant help with the No-till.

You want 30-35w per square foot as a minimum up to 50w per square foot. Some people do great with less but that's the basic rule of thumb.
20 square feet @30wpsf is 600w.
Running at 120w a piece is going to take a fairly hefty and pricey heatsinks and that going to increase the build cost.

Honestly I think you could do the job far better and far cheaper using 2ft or 4ft strips. Possibly bridgelux eb gen 2 or gen 3.

As an example you could do it in two sections/lights,
2x hlg320-20b
16 gen 2 eb strips @ $4.60 from arrow per driver =32 strips for $147.20 (2ft strips)
You can run these on aluminium U profile as heatsink so that massively reduces the overall cost.

I haven't full costed the COB build but you would really want more than 4 cobs and different drivers ,im seeing prices of £23 for those Veros but not sure how much you would be paying, but the heat sink would likely cost you the same price been its going to be a beast.
I think it would work out dearer with less even coverage. I don't know what you can get heatsinks for though.

There are many ways to go about lighting your space up. Just giving an alternative.

https://ledgardener.com/diy-led-strip-build-designs-samsung-bridgelux/



https://www.arrow.com/en/products/bxeb-l0560z-35e2000-c-b3/bridgelux


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## Treeckle (Nov 26, 2019)

coreywebster said:


> Cant help with the No-till.
> 
> You want 30-35w per square foot as a minimum up to 50w per square foot. Some people do great with less but that's the basic rule of thumb.
> 20 square feet @30wpsf is 600w.
> ...


Alternatives are always appreciated, thank you!!

Damn, I haven't even looked at LED strips! I am currently using COBs, and I am familiar with them, so I was just going to go the same route again, only this time I'm doing it way bigger. I will need to look into these strips, and try to come up with a light fixture that I can make.

Regarding heatsinks for the COBs, I was actually planning on doing something special by using a water cooled loop, which would then be enough to cool the 120W COBs nicely, and I have also found some really cheap watercooling blocks on amazon that go for around 5$ per piece!

Price of the parts is not really a factor that I am worried about, I am only going after the best efficiency!


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## DonnyTinyHands (Nov 26, 2019)

Your plan seems reasonable to me. I'd do 4 plants in that space, one cob per plant lighting about 4sqft each with 120watts, 30 watts a sqft, nothing wrong with that. 

But if you want the best efficiently COBs have been outdone by quantum boards. 

Check out migro YouTube channel if what you care about is efficiently. Dude measures the whole system ppfd/watt so you can see how different technologies compare in term of efficiently.


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## coreywebster (Nov 26, 2019)

Well taking the heat sink out of the costing and knowing your plan to water cool, you would want more COBs powered softer for higher efficiency. 

Whats the lm/w running those vero's at 1750mA?


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## Treeckle (Nov 26, 2019)

DonnyTinyHands said:


> Your plan seems reasonable to me. I'd do 4 plants in that space, one cob per plant lighting about 4sqft each with 120watts, 30 watts a sqft, nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But if you want the best efficiently COBs have been outdone by quantum boards.
> 
> Check out migro YouTube channel if what you care about is efficiently. Dude measures the whole system ppfd/watt so you can see how different technologies compare in term of efficiently.


I have been checking out youtube for the past 3 days, learning this stuff again, but damn, I've only been researching COBs! It looks like I'm going to have to fill another drawer in my brain with quantum board stuff!



coreywebster said:


> Well taking the heat sink out of the costing and knowing your plan to water cool, you would want more COBs powered softer for higher efficiency.
> 
> Whats the lm/w running those vero's at 1750mA?


The Vero's have listed 159 lm/w, but I kinda just threw the COB idea out the window! Seems like LED strips is going to be the way to go here.

I've been looking at the Samsung LED strips for the past few hours now haha! It looks to me like I should aim to get the "lm301b" strip for maximum watt to lumen efficiency(efficacy). The down side of these is that, I think I will need to solder the wires to it, which I am really not looking forward to.. Perhaps there is an easier way, but my research is still ongoing


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## Chip Green (Nov 26, 2019)

DonnyTinyHands said:


> if you want the best efficiently COBs have been outdone by quantum boards


That's not necessarily true.
It all comes down to to the specifications for the given emitters, the number of emitters in use, drive current, and thermal management.

In reality, a COB emitter, is just a very small "quantum board"....A vast array, of tiny diodes in a small surface area.

EDIT: furthermore

Thermal management can become more user friendly, and certainly more cost effective, utilizing emitters other than COB arrays, making greater efficiency more sensible to achieve.


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## PadawanWarrior (Nov 26, 2019)

I did 9 plants in a 3x8 closet, but now I prefer just 3 or 4 since I like to grow them a little bigger than some. I would probably use more light though. I did a round with 2 HLG 260 Rspec's, a 135 Rspec and 2 100's, so 850 watts in that space an it worked well. But now I'm running the boards with cmh on one side to get a side by side comparison. So far at 4 weeks the cmh Sunset Sherbert looks a little frostier than the LED side. I plan to do the 3 Rspec's with a cmh between each, but need to get an electrician out here first before I turn the other on.


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## coreywebster (Nov 27, 2019)

Treeckle said:


> I have been checking out youtube for the past 3 days, learning this stuff again, but damn, I've only been researching COBs! It looks like I'm going to have to fill another drawer in my brain with quantum board stuff!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Many strips have push in connectors.
Its also worth looking at cutter.au 's options. They have a massive array of great products. One of the basic ones is cree J series which in 80cri have a high lm/w , they really do have some nice fancy boards and strips 






SSK-1560-3590CR 2ft Led Hard Strips | Cutter Electronics


The SSK-1560-3590CR comes prewired with 150mm 18AWG Wire. Board has 112 led's spaced on 0.5mm pitch for blend and maximum utilisation of the PCB real estate




www.cutter.com.au





That's the 90cri J series , take no notice of the lm/w in the pic, that is for 80cri. But you should be able to find your way around from there.


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## Treeckle (Nov 27, 2019)

Chip Green said:


> That's not necessarily true.
> It all comes down to to the specifications for the given emitters, the number of emitters in use, drive current, and thermal management.
> 
> In reality, a COB emitter, is just a very small "quantum board"....A vast array, of tiny diodes in a small surface area.
> ...


I assume getting the LED strip is better because it spreads the light better. I'm paying an arm and a leg for heatsinks and the Samsung strips, but I'm sure it's all going to be worth it in the end!



PadawanWarrior said:


> I did 9 plants in a 3x8 closet, but now I prefer just 3 or 4 since I like to grow them a little bigger than some. I would probably use more light though. I did a round with 2 HLG 260 Rspec's, a 135 Rspec and 2 100's, so 850 watts in that space an it worked well. But now I'm running the boards with cmh on one side to get a side by side comparison. So far at 4 weeks the cmh Sunset Sherbert looks a little frostier than the LED side. I plan to do the 3 Rspec's with a cmh between each, but need to get an electrician out here first before I turn the other on.


Do you practice no-till for your plants? It sounds like you had a ton of wattage in that space! I'm looking more at around 450W, using the LED strips, but they do emit around 200 lm/W. I'm also looking to get a few deep red and blue LED strips in-between, just to see what they do!



coreywebster said:


> Many strips have push in connectors.
> Its also worth looking at cutter.au 's options. They have a massive array of great products. One of the basic ones is cree J series which in 80cri have a high lm/w , they really do have some nice fancy boards and strips
> 
> 
> ...


I have found some of those top notch Samsung strips that also come with connectors. And I even found the 3500K version with them, and I am really happy about that! I wish I could buy from cutter.au, but the customs cost would just go through the roof I think. Thank you for the suggestion though! I'd give you the thumbs up, but I have no idea how ahaha!


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## coreywebster (Nov 27, 2019)

Treeckle said:


> I assume getting the LED strip is better because it spreads the light better. I'm paying an arm and a leg for heatsinks and the Samsung strips, but I'm sure it's all going to be worth it in the end!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A lot of those customs charges are worth it when your saving so much on the heatsink using U profile. 
Where are you at, US? What do you pay for importing? Costs me 20% in UK for anything outside EU. 
I know a couple of folks in US built set ups using parts from cutter. One of them sells lights so it must be economically viable.

Anyhow this is beside the point, just curious really. Glad you found some strips that suit your needs. Which have you settled on?


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## Treeckle (Nov 27, 2019)

coreywebster said:


> A lot of those customs charges are worth it when your saving so much on the heatsink using U profile.
> Where are you at, US? What do you pay for importing? Costs me 20% in UK for anything outside EU.
> I know a couple of folks in US built set ups using parts from cutter. One of them sells lights so it must be economically viable.
> 
> Anyhow this is beside the point, just curious really. Glad you found some strips that suit your needs. Which have you settled on?


I'm in the EU aswell actually! Building tomato and salad growing lights of course.. 

I found a store in Germany called LED-TECH, where I found the strips carrying 98x Samsung LM301B LEDs. They come in at 18€ each, but are really efficient. I've decided on getting 16 of these, and 4 red/blue strips (8x red, 2x blue each) and 8 far red LEDs just to see what that's all about. So you could say I've done my research!


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## coreywebster (Nov 27, 2019)

Treeckle said:


> I'm in the EU aswell actually! Building tomato and salad growing lights of course..
> 
> I found a store in Germany called LED-TECH, where I found the strips carrying 98x Samsung LM301B LEDs. They come in at 18€ each, but are really efficient. I've decided on getting 16 of these, and 4 red/blue strips (8x red, 2x blue each) and 8 far red LEDs just to see what that's all about. So you could say I've done my research!


Sweet man, yeah I know the store, they make some great stuff! 

Lot of us in the LED section are in the EU. Between us all we could knock up a great salad


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## PadawanWarrior (Nov 27, 2019)

Treeckle said:


> I assume getting the LED strip is better because it spreads the light better. I'm paying an arm and a leg for heatsinks and the Samsung strips, but I'm sure it's all going to be worth it in the end!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ya no-till in 15 gal pots. It's about 35 watts per sq ft at 850 watts total, but will be a little higher when I have the other cmh running. I could always turn them down too if I wanted. I prefer the boards over strips though. I like to be able to adjust the height of each one individually, since some of my plants get bigger than others. I think it would be tougher with 4 ft strips, at least in my 3x8 and the way I'm growing.


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## Treeckle (Nov 28, 2019)

coreywebster said:


> Sweet man, yeah I know the store, they make some great stuff!
> 
> Lot of us in the LED section are in the EU. Between us all we could knock up a great salad


Haha yeah! It would be awesome, if we could share our projects more openly 



PadawanWarrior said:


> Ya no-till in 15 gal pots. It's about 35 watts per sq ft at 850 watts total, but will be a little higher when I have the other cmh running. I could always turn them down too if I wanted. I prefer the boards over strips though. I like to be able to adjust the height of each one individually, since some of my plants get bigger than others. I think it would be tougher with 4 ft strips, at least in my 3x8 and the way I'm growing.


Wow that is a lot of wattage! Makes me think if I should add more stripes! Do you notice any speed up in growth when adding additional lights like the cmh? I am planning on doing the SCROG technique, so most of the plants should be the same height, which is why I'm comfortable going with the stripes.


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## PadawanWarrior (Nov 28, 2019)

Treeckle said:


> Haha yeah! It would be awesome, if we could share our projects more openly
> 
> 
> 
> Wow that is a lot of wattage! Makes me think if I should add more stripes! Do you notice any speed up in growth when adding additional lights like the cmh? I am planning on doing the SCROG technique, so most of the plants should be the same height, which is why I'm comfortable going with the stripes.


My plants are liking all the light. I think they get bigger and fatter with more light, at least up to a point. When I did a cmh with 2 100's, the plant under them gave me 1/2 lb. Seems the cmh makes a little frostier buds too.


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