# 12/12 From Seed Experiment - 21 Strains



## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 4, 2014)

Welcome to my journal! I encourage you to ask questions, provide suggestions, or leave feedback.

OVERVIEW:
There will be a total of 53 seeds representing 21 different strains. These will be distributed among two different pot sizes. The pots I have chosen to use are called Tree Pots and, after carefully considering the 2L bottles, have decided on these two:

Model MT310: This is a 3" square pot that is 10 inches tall.
Model CP412CH: This is a 4" square pot that is 12 inches tall.

If anyone is interested, the company that sells these is here:
https://www.stuewe.com/products/minitreepots.php

OBJECTIVE:
The objective is to find the most suitable strains capable of generating a dominant single cola with minimal side branching in order to maximize the available space and light.

Plants will likely be pruned one or more times to remove side branching and large fan leaves.

Most growers gauge their yields by grams per watt and grams per square foot. Both of these fail to take into account the time aspect.

This experiment will attempt to estimate grams per square foot per year and grams per killowatt hour.


CONTAINERS
( 18 ) 3" x 10" Mini-Tree Pots
( 35 ) 4" x 12" Tree Pots

MEDIUM
Approximately 60% Coco Coir and 40% Perlite, both thoroughly rinsed.

NUTRIENTS
Blue Planet 3-Part High Yield System

PH MANAGEMENT
Target PH level between 5.8 and 6.0.
I bought the Extech PH50 Waterproof pH Pen from Amazon

WATER
Will be using well water. I ran some pretty thorough tests on it (for drinking purposes) and it's really quite good as far as well water goes. It has about 170 ppm of stuff in it.

LIGHTING
Single 600 Watt Digital Ballast
I started the 1st 10 or so days with MH but switched to HPS today

REFLECTOR
Sun System Blockbuster sealed air-cooled reflector

All of this gear is inside of a 4x4 Gorilla tent.
I will provide much more detailed information on the physical setup in a subsequent post as I already anticipate some issues.

GENETICS
Barneys Farm Seeds Tangerine Dream
Barneys Farm Seeds Top Dawg
Barneys Farm Seeds G13 Haze
Barneys Farm Seeds Chronic Thunder - Chronix X x Alaskan Thunder
Barneys Farm Seeds Red Dragon - Himalayan Kush x Utopia Haze
Delicious Seeds Critical Jack Herer - Critical Mass x Jack Herer
KC Brains Northern Lights Special
Reserva Privada Sour Kush AKA Headband - Sour Diesal x OG Kush
Sensi Seeds Skunk #1
Sensi Seeds Silver Haze #9 - Unknown Indica x Haze
Barneys Farm Seeds Critical Kush - Critical Mass x OG Kush
Bomb Seeds Bubble Bomb
Connoisseur Genetics Seeds East Coast Sour Diesel Haze - East Coast Sour Diesel x Unknown Haze
Strain Hunters Seedbank Seeds Flowerbomb Kush - Green Crack x OG Kush
Seedism Seeds AppleJack - Jack Herer x White Widow
Barneys Farm Seeds Blue Cheese
Delicious Seeds Critical Sensi Star
Dinafem Seeds Critical Cheese - Unknown
Dinafem Seeds Diesel - Sour Diesal x NYC Diesal
Samsara Seeds Green Love Potion
Seedism Seeds Cheese

Some of these were freebies. Once I get past the 2nd week I will post specific numbers on what I have going.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 4, 2014)

Btw, del6666, this experiment goes out to you man. You are my inspiration for this!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 4, 2014)

I know these 1st set of picture suck...but it's my first time so I'm still learning how to use the site.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 5, 2014)

*Day 10 Update
*
Plants are recovering nicely from the premature feeding. I have 9 plants that are on probation and will likely be on the chopping block in a few days. Once that decision is made I will post final information on which strains, how many and which pots are they in (3 inch or 4 inch).

I am doing light waterings sometimes every day sometimes every other day. Using straight well water with 5ml of CalMag added per gallon. Hope to start mild feeding soon...going to wait until 3rd set of leaves.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 5, 2014)

I was hoping I could create a poll from here but I guess I can't. I'm skeptical that the 3" x 10" pots are going to work but because I can get 16 of them per sq/ft I had to try. I feel pretty good that the 4" x 12" pots are going to be fine as they are relatively comparable to the 2L Hempy's that a lot of people use.

3" Pots - What do you think? Total failure? Total Success? No Idea?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 6, 2014)

*Day 11 Update
*
No pictures today. I know the anticipation from a 10 day old seedling to an 11 day old seedling must be excruciating but you'll just have to wait.

The big news is that I have 10 new seeds coming...C99 BX-1 from Mosca. The Cinderellas are regular seeds whereas every other seed in this journal is a fem.
Not exactly sure what the plan is yet but will most likely involve some pollination! Strains like C99, the Apollos, and anything from Bodhi is on my wish/todo list. I wish I had read about these before making my initial seed selections. Oh well...still excited to see how we do.

Also have some new experimental containers coming. Even smaller than the 3" square ones but I won't spoil the surprise until they get here.

I have a lot going on in my mind regarding the room. Probably going to ditch the tent, go back to my MH bulb for a bit and redesign the ventilation/odor control system. I still have plenty of time before odor is a concern but I better get on it now.


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## akhiymjames (Sep 6, 2014)

I like what your doing bro. Not too many people do 12/12 from seed so its good to see someone doing a major project with it. I'm gonna be doing some 12/12 from see as I wanna sex mu reg seeds sooner and I'll prolly flower some all the way through after I see he differences in phenos. Looking forward to seeing you progress so I will be watching. Peace


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 6, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> I like what your doing bro. Not too many people do 12/12 from seed so its good to see someone doing a major project with it. I'm gonna be doing some 12/12 from see as I wanna sex mu reg seeds sooner and I'll prolly flower some all the way through after I see he differences in phenos. Looking forward to seeing you progress so I will be watching. Peace


Thanks for stopping by man and I'm glad you're here!
I have some outrageous goals and this is kind of the proof of concept. It may work, it may not...I have no idea but it's gunna be a blast finding out.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 8, 2014)

*Day 13 Update
*
So today I made the bold decision to do away with my tent. Once I have the room cleaned up I'll take updated pictures of the space.
5 plants were removed. 2 or 3 more may be removed...I'm going to give them another 2 days before deciding.

Attached is the Menu that has the Number/Strain for reference.
I also took 2 plants out for close-ups. Both of these are in the 3" x 10" pots. Northern Lights on the left and Critical Kush on the right.
I've been watering with 5ml of Cal Mag per gallon only until tonight when I did my 1st feed (I'm not going to count the *real* first feed when I almost killed them).

I did 20% strength of the Blue Planet along with the 5ml of Cal Mag. All in all things seem to be going pretty well. There are a lot of 1st's for me. First time growing in 20 years. First time growing in Coco. First time using nutrients other than Miracle Grow. First time with Carbon filters and ventilation systems.

My C99's and new experimental pots shipped today so I expect to have them in a week or so.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 10, 2014)

*Day 15 Update
*
Plants seem to be progressing slowly. My PH pen broke after only one use so I got some paper strips and also am relying on the tester that came with my Ph Down. Discovered the run-off was crazy high...approximately 8.5 or so. I did some testing with Ph Down and it appears that 1 ml per gallon drops it a whole point so I prepared a mixture of 1/4 strength Blue Planet 3 part, 5 ml CalMag and 1.5 ml Ph Down per gallon and did a flush. I will be monitoring the situation very closely from now on until I can get my recipe dialed in. The plants don't look sick...they are just coming along slowly. The last 2 1/2 days have shown very little growth. The other discouraging thing is that my run-off is brown. When I prepared the Coco I did 3 rinses over 3 consecutive days and I ran so much water through it each day that I'm kind of shocked I'm getting brown run-off.

Picture below is just an overview of the arrangement. Tent is now out of the equation and we are in the 17'x13' room that I built. Currently being exhausted with a 500 cfm fan with passive intakes. The ventilation design is going to get revamped now that I'm out of the tent.

Temps stable at 75 during lights on and 70 at night. RH stable day and night at 45%.


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## akhiymjames (Sep 10, 2014)

Not harping on you in anyway but those babies look a lil small to be getting fed right now. I know your in coco but you should be able to just water those girls with plain water for a while till they get much bigger. I start all my beans now in perlite and just feed high pH tap water 8.5-9 the first couple weeks. When you flush why do you add calmag and blueplanet? Just use pH'd water. Hope they start to take off soon for you


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 10, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> Not harping on you in anyway but those babies look a lil small to be getting fed right now. I know your in coco but you should be able to just water those girls with plain water for a while till they get much bigger. I start all my beans now in perlite and just feed high pH tap water 8.5-9 the first couple weeks. When you flush why do you add calmag and blueplanet? Just use pH'd water. Hope they start to take off soon for you


Yeah? Crap, okay. Should I reflush them with just Ph'd water now or wait for them to dry some?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 10, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Yeah? Crap, okay. Should I reflush them with just Ph'd water now or wait for them to dry some?


I did not *drench* them...just enough that I got run-off.


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## akhiymjames (Sep 10, 2014)

I don't want you to drown them since they are small so just wait and see. If they're still looking bad after a few days then I'd flush them again with just pH'd water. How often are you watering them? I know coco holds water not much as soil but it retains it


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 10, 2014)

I've been watering them everyday about 1 oz of water. Just enough to keep the 1" x 1" rockwool cube wet that they were started in. Today was the 2nd time that I did a more aggressive watering...approx 4 oz for the 3" pots and 6-8 oz for the 4" pots.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 10, 2014)

Unless they take a turn for the worse, I will continue to water 1 oz or so of just PH'd water daily as the rockwool cubes get dry. I won't use any nutes or Cal Mag again and will continue to post updates.


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## akhiymjames (Sep 10, 2014)

Well your not over-watering them. Just keep doing what you been doing with that and just water till you see growth pick back up then try 1/4-1/3 nutes. See how they handle that then bump up nutes to 1/2


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 10, 2014)

Awesome, will do and thanks!!!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 11, 2014)

*Day 16 Update
*
I have to say I am so pleased! The flush last night worked! Even though it was not a true flush since it has stuff in it...lol.
The amount of progress over the last 24 hours is more than what I saw over the last 3 or 4 days combined so I feel so much better now!!!!

akhiymjames...thanks a lot for you help last night.

The plants were sitting in their run-off since last night so what I came up with is shown in the pics. Tomorrow I'll drill a few holes in my titan pans so they can drain through the shelf into the plastic bins. Based on how they are looking today, and since the roots are all the way at the bottom already, I feel like I should stop the little 1 oz baby waterings to keep the rockwool moist and instead just go for the more aggressive waterings that generate run-off but only do this as needed. The 3" pots will probably need it every 2 to 3 days but the 4" pots can certainly go longer. They hold a ton more than the 3". What do you think?

I also swapped my HPS back to MH for a little bit. I am compelled to confirm my belief that using the MH during Veg and into the stretch will be optimal. I paid $120 for this bulb so It better kick some ass! (Eye Hortilux Blue (Daylight) Super MetalHalide Bulb).

2 More plants did not make the cut. I gave them every opportunity but they just did not progress.
Have a total of (15) in 3" x 10" pots and (30) in 4" x 12" pots.

The NL-CK photo is the same 2 plants I have been pulling out. This is the easiest way for me to track daily progress so I will continue to do so.
#7 is the Northern Lights and #11 is Critical Kush.


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## akhiymjames (Sep 11, 2014)

Glad everything is going much better. Don't mind helping at all bro that's what we're here for. 

Plants siting in runoff can cause slow growth so it's a good thing fixing that problem. Since those roots are at the bottom already your gonna want to transplant soon. Don't let them girls get root bound. Go ahead and fully water those girls that way when the medium starts to dry out the roots will stretch towards the bottom for water. 

Thinking of getting one of those Hortilux bulbs. I know a site where you can get then cheap. Not dirt cheap tho lol but let me know how your bulb does. I like vegging with HPS as you get a lil more stretch with it. 

Won't be long before you start getting down to a few ladies. I hope you find something you really like


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 11, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> Glad everything is going much better. Don't mind helping at all bro that's what we're here for.
> 
> Plants siting in runoff can cause slow growth so it's a good thing fixing that problem. Since those roots are at the bottom already your gonna want to transplant soon. Don't let them girls get root bound. Go ahead and fully water those girls that way when the medium starts to dry out the roots will stretch towards the bottom for water.
> 
> ...


These are my 2 experimental pot sizes... there won't be any transplanting!
And these are all Fem seeds too...


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## akhiymjames (Sep 11, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> These are my 2 experimental pot sizes... there won't be any transplanting!


I got you bro. You must be going to flip soon?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 11, 2014)

They've been on 12/12 since day #1. Going for the crammed in SOG single cola's. 16 plants per sq/ft with 3" pots and 9 per sq/ft with the 4".
My goal for this experiment is to find a pot size and strain that is capable of yielding no less than 4 oz per sq/ft. This goal sounds crazy and maybe it is. But I'm going for it.


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## akhiymjames (Sep 11, 2014)

I don't think that's a bad goal to shoot for. It's not outrageous so it can be done. I believe with the right strain either size pot should be able to produce that amount of dry herb. I'm rooting for you bro and don't mind me I had a stoner moment lol. Title clearly states what you doin


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 11, 2014)

Thanks for the encouragement! And no worries...I tend to blab on and on sometimes.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 11, 2014)

wcharles said:


> i cant believe those are from seed, you mean you never let them veg at all. wow...


Well...I suppose the are technically vegging but they have been on 12/12 since they sprouted. They are definitely not where I expected them to be by now. I was expecting to see my 1st pistol by day 20 or so but that certainly is not going to happen. I will blame that on myself of course.

Edit: I think wcharles was actually mocking me...lol. That's okay though.


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## Mr.Head (Sep 11, 2014)

Day 20 from seed coming out of the ground? from the ground you're prolly looking at day 35-40. Factor in 7-10 days for seedling state, then about 30 to show a pistil IME.

The whole lot looks absolutely great though. Keep it up 

There's some great 12/12 FS grows around this site, this is shaping up to be a great one.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 11, 2014)

Mr.Head said:


> Day 20 from seed coming out of the ground? from the ground you're prolly looking at day 35-40. Factor in 7-10 days for seedling state, then about 30 to show a pistil IME.
> 
> The whole lot looks absolutely great though. Keep it up
> 
> There's some great 12/12 FS grows around this site, this is shaping up to be a great one.


Thanks for your feedback and for just being here!
1 to 1.5 foot tall is kind of what I was hoping/expecting but since this is my 1st time I don't really know. Del6666 laid the ground work that inspired this so I'm just following in his footsteps with my own personal little tweaks.

Regarding the age of my plants...you bring up a very good point. I was unsure how to report age so what I went with was average time it took for seedlings to actually sprout after I transplanted the 1" x 1" rockwool cubes into the Coco. So you are right, this ended up averaging about 8 days which I am not including. So technically, these girls are more like 24 days old from the time I opened the seed packs.

The 20 day estimate came from del...that was his reported average.


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## Mr.Head (Sep 11, 2014)

Doing a grow like this is a great way to learn about the plant, and different strains. I learned a lot with my limited 12/12 grows.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 11, 2014)

Thanks for the encouragement! I'm super excited and thankful to be part of this community.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 11, 2014)

I find the fact that the roots have already reached the bottom of a 10" tall pot indicates that my premise of skinny and tall pots could be right on the money. We'll see!


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## Boppa (Sep 11, 2014)

Good Luck, I'll be watching to see how it turns out....


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## akhiymjames (Sep 12, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Thanks for your feedback and for just being here!
> 1 to 1.5 foot tall is kind of what I was hoping/expecting but since this is my 1st time I don't really know. Del6666 laid the ground work that inspired this so I'm just following in his footsteps with my own personal little tweaks.
> 
> Regarding the age of my plants...you bring up a very good point. I was unsure how to report age so what I went with was average time it took for seedlings to actually sprout after I transplanted the 1" x 1" rockwool cubes into the Coco. So you are right, this ended up averaging about 8 days which I am not including. So technically, these girls are more like 24 days old from the time I opened the seed packs.
> ...


Different strains bro. Some will sex quick some take a while. Your doing great bro just keep doing what your doing and I say in a few days you should be able to give a 1/3 strength feed and sex could show by then too but they will show soon


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 12, 2014)

Interesting thread! Don't worry about over watering the coco substrate. You can't overwater it! I watered with run-of four times a day with no ill effects. Think it's good advise though, to not let them sit in drainage pans.. They grow very slow in the beginning when grown 12/12 from seed, but soon you will have a jungle in there I believe. Best of luck! I'll keep watching the show!


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 13, 2014)

I have much personal interest in this thread since I'm doing something similar. I jammed 17 3x3 pots n a grow cabinet, 4,65 feet2. Unfortunately the chinese led lights were advertise with a very misleading wattage, which left me on the low side on l/feet2. I've harvested more than half of them with about 5-12 grams each, but the remaining ones are bigger than that. My next grow will have HID intensity led light so that will be different!

I'd say that your biggest enemy at this point is stretch. If your plants get to tall and lanky they will start to shade each other and the higher ratio of fare red to red down in the foliage will cause both side shoots and tops take of.. More so with the HPS than with the MH. 

To avoid this you want your light to hang as close as possible without burning the plants. (this will shorten the internode distance) Use a small oscillating fan that blows above your plants ant makes them sway gently. (this will give them sturdier stems and also help with node length.

MInimize heat difference between night and day. A small negative diff is optimal. (slightly cooler light-periods than dark periods.

I do think that higher EC PPM of nutes will keep them shorter. (more eating less drinking) This upper limit will be low for you since you have so many strains.. If i were you a would try with half strength next watering, than work yourself upwards till you see some nute burn in your pickier plants, and than, either go down from there ,or let the pussies suffer a bit. If you look at Dels plants they always looks pretty overfed, people actually mocked him for this.

Keeping plants short in Coco isn't easy! if you find it difficult, i do believe that you'd benefit from sacrificing a few of your lankier or underdeveloped plants to let the other plants reach there full potential.. I think you would benefit from going perpetual and starting in very small pots and than replanting the best looking ones, thus utilizing the ligh more effiviently... This would also help with high humidity and mold in the end of flowering..

Do you know of a link where Del shows his hole garden in any of his threads? or if he ever presented any numbers of gr/kW... Please link if you can!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 13, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> I have much personal interest in this thread since I'm doing something similar. I jammed 17 3x3 pots n a grow cabinet, 4,65 feet2. Unfortunately the chinese led lights were advertise with a very misleading wattage, which left me on the low side on l/feet2. I've harvested more than half of them with about 5-12 grams each, but the remaining ones are bigger than that. My next grow will have HID intensity led light so that will be different!
> 
> I'd say that your biggest enemy at this point is stretch. If your plants get to tall and lanky they will start to shade each other and the higher ratio of fare red to red down in the foliage will cause both side shoots and tops take of.. More so with the HPS than with the MH.
> 
> ...


Del's giant thread is here:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-12-12-from-seed-thread.416589/

Great advice and suggestions...I really appreciate it! 

Against other advice I received, I have switched back to the MH and will just play it by ear regarding when to switch. My temps are staying very consistent now that fall as arrived. 73 with lights on and 68 at night are the two high.low extremes. RH is also very consistent in the mid 40's and I expect it will drop even a little lower. I have a 2nd dehumidifier on standby just in case I need it.

Regarding the crowding factor...yes I anticipate this being a problem. I intend to remove all side branching and do selective defoliating as needed.

I have a fan on them 24 hours...I'll get a picture in today's update.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 13, 2014)

Thanks for the link! I've probably read parts of it while googling stuff, but never seen his garden as a hole. (always thought that he gave his plants plenty of space in order to let them develop to so impressive plants.

It seam's as you have everything under control man! I do understand that you probably have done your research, and have some experience, even if it's 20 years old! Maybe your higher light intensity will help you with the crowding factor.. I think that going with MH until post stretch of plants will help a lot. Of course that time window will be pretty big because of the different strains you have.

I did a lot of de-leafing on my biggest plants, And I have the feeling that it slowed them down, but also delayed flowering, and that they eventually got almost as big as they would have done anyway.. (This is my gut feeling and I have no way to confirm it scientifically)

Have you read this?
http://www.nomercyseeds.eu/en/growinfo/12-12-system.htm

I would like to try his santa maria, or no mercy special.. But hate to waste times on males. Santa maria is so in-bread that you probably would get away with pretty uniform selfed seeds. Have you considered to try it. Making your own female seeds would save you some money, and probably be very fun to!


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 13, 2014)

This guy is having huge success with No mercy special 12/12 from seed. You have to use goole translate to read it, if your not speaking german.. https://www.grower.ch/forum/threads/i-no-mercy-special-12-12-report.53847/


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 13, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> Thanks for the link! I've probably read parts of it while googling stuff, but never seen his garden as a hole. (always thought that he gave his plants plenty of space in order to let them develop to so impressive plants.
> 
> It seam's as you have everything under control man! I do understand that you probably have done your research, and have some experience, even if it's 20 years old! Maybe your higher light intensity will help you with the crowding factor.. I think that going with MH until post stretch of plants will help a lot. Of course that time window will be pretty big because of the different strains you have.
> 
> ...


I have not read that but I will right now.

I have never removed fan leaves (at least that I can remember) so I will have to not only be careful but will need to do some controlled tests. Perhaps I will do no defoliating on some, minor on some and major on some and just log the results.

Here is another grower that I studied and his results are undeniable:
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/completed-journals/149813-2-liter-hempy-sog-4.html
He is pretty dialed in and defoliates at day 21 and again at day 45 if I memory serves.

2L bottles are what...4 or 4.5 inches wide? He has them side by side...no spacing.

I have read about making my own Fem seeds and it is certainly worth a try. Depending on how this experiment goes, I was planning on picking the best 2 or 3 strains and then purchasing regular seeds from Attitude and simply grow these out and pick what appears to to be the best male and female from each strain and interbreed to create my own seed stock.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 13, 2014)

Regarding making fem seeds, these are the notes I have taken. If anyone has personal experience doing so please chime in!

How to Fem Seeds
http://forum.grasscity.com/advanced-growing-techniques/1179921-diy-sts-silver-thiosulfate-solution-how-guide-reversing-plants.html

Other chemical based options
gibberellic acid
A Product using G. Acid
http://www.valent.com/Data/Labels/20...004-5005r4.pdf
G. Acid is prolly worth the go.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 13, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> This guy is having huge success with No mercy special 12/12 from seed. You have to use goole translate to read it, if your not speaking german.. https://www.grower.ch/forum/threads/i-no-mercy-special-12-12-report.53847/


Yeah man...that is what I'm talking about!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 13, 2014)

Going to be doing a thorough watering and feeding today. This is the schedule of the Blue Planet Elite 3 Part that I'll be using:
http://www.blueplanetnutrients.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=73&Itemid=113

Based on the age of my plants, 18 days, and the size, what quantities do you guys suggest?
I've done 2 feedings so far.

1st one used full strength under the Weeks 1-2 Veg schedule and I burned them quite good. Think day 8 was the first feed.

2nd feed was on day 15 when I discovered run-off PH was 8.5. I did 1/4 strength with PH'd water and watered aggressively and that was when the plants responded wonderfully.

Today is day 18. Think it's safe to use full strength on the Weeks 1-2 schedule?


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 13, 2014)

If you are using quality coco with low EC and relatively soft water it shouldn't be a problem! Since they are 18 days your actually in week 3, and they should be able to handle 5 ml.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 13, 2014)

Here is info about how one can use super strong nutes in order to get super sturdy plants. http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/1536.html


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 13, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> Here is info about how one can use super strong nutes in order to get super sturdy plants. http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/1536.html


Very good read. Thanks for posting. You obviously like to research just as I do!


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 13, 2014)

Google "research" and you find a picture of me!  LOL Seriously borderline-OCD.. Actually longing a bit till the day i have my Perpetual-12/12-from-seed-mini-SOG set the way i like, with the right lights, seeds nutrition ETC. At least I'm getting closer. Might start a thread here when i start my next run, even if really don't have the time.. Hopefully the run after the next one i will be trying your winner strain out. The ones that looking the best in my garden right now is Master Kush and AK-48 from Nirvana. Grape x Bubblegum s the best smoke so far, but didn't yield well in my poor light conditions..

Will have 8 plants of the real grape fruit in my test run. Used to grow it under HPS, 7 years ago and was very pleased with quality, and pretty pleased with harvest..


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## akhiymjames (Sep 13, 2014)

Bro use only have strength as those feeding schedules are usually too hot for most strains. You should be able to feed with 1/2 without any burning. Remember growth was stunted when you fed at full strength early so you don't want to stress them too much. Start low and continue to work up week after week.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 13, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> Google "research" and you find a picture of me!  LOL Seriously borderline-OCD.. Actually longing a bit till the day i have my Perpetual-12/12-from-seed-mini-SOG set the way i like, with the right lights, seeds nutrition ETC. At least I'm getting closer. Might start a thread here when i start my next run, even if really don't have the time.. Hopefully the run after the next one i will be trying your winner strain out. The ones that looking the best in my garden right now is Master Kush and AK-48 from Nirvana. Grape x Bubblegum s the best smoke so far, but didn't yield well in my poor light conditions..
> 
> Will have 8 plants of the real grape fruit in my test run. Used to grow it under HPS, 7 years ago and was very pleased with quality, and pretty pleased with harvest..


I hope you get the chance to journal too so we can learn from one another. Where I am ultimately going with this is the perpetual.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 13, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> Bro use only have strength as those feeding schedules are usually too hot for most strains. You should be able to feed with 1/2 without any burning. Remember growth was stunted when you fed at full strength early so you don't want to stress them too much. Start low and continue to work up week after week.


Okay, okay. I sense I am getting too impatient again. Thanks for reeling me in.
Why in the world don't these feeding instructions give proper amounts? It's like, if I follow the instructions to a tee I'm likely to kill my plants. That is just retarded.


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## akhiymjames (Sep 13, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Okay, okay. I sense I am getting too impatient again. Thanks for reeling me in.
> Why in the world don't these feeding instructions give proper amounts? It's like, if I follow the instructions to a tee I'm likely to kill my plants. That is just retarded.


That's because they aren't made for cannabis. And what most people fail to realize it's a marketing tactic to make you use more nutes so you have to buy more. If the nutes are any good you should never have to use full strength unless it's a heavy feeder. 

Just be patient bro I know you want them to grow fast but the only way is giving it enough nutes and not pushing it past what they can handle. 

It's nothing wrong with pushing your plants cus that's what you want to do to get the most out of them but you just don't want to be frying them up with nutes. If you see a lil tip burn it's ok cus that let's you know your at her limit just slightly over. The main thing is watch your plants after you feed. Go check on them a few hours after you feed and look at the leaves and the tips. See if there's any burn see how perky she is. This will tell you how's she's handling the food you've given her.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 13, 2014)

Half strength or quarter strength don't tell much if you don't know what "full" represents. And do you have soft water or hard water? Age of seedlings can be very misleading to.. The size of them matters more.. My seedlings were fed with an EC of 1,0 (that's more than half of the strength used in bloom) when they were in that age. I will feed them heavier in the next round, since the took it very well, and it apparently can help with stretch. But I grow under LEDs, and you under HPS so you have a lot more heat radiation going. Low humidity should also make plants more sensitive to higher EC's so there are many factors to take in to account. As AK-James tells you, you have to monitor the plants and see how they react to changes. New leafs should be lighter green than old ones. Very dark-green leafs and burnt tips is signs of nute burn. I've earlier feared over feading, but will aim at going as dark green as I can, without the burnt tips, in my next round, and then flush them generously. Hopefully this will help stretch. The article I posted is the reason for this. And watching Dels plants make me think that he also went/goes? Very heavy on the feeding.. But follow Akjames advice on how to up the EC. One should never do anything to drastic!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 13, 2014)

So I have to get something that measures EC. My piece of poop PH Pen broke after one use so I'm stuck with the paper strips and the small test kit that came with my GH PH Up/PH Down.

I went middle of the road based on both of your suggestions and mixed up approx 2/3rds the suggested strength for Weeks 1-2 according to the schedule. Did the Grow, Micro, Bloom and this was the 1st time I also did the Liquid seaweed and VitaBlue. My tap (well) water is a pretty solid 7.0 - 7.3 PH with 170PPM. After mixing these nutes I took another PH reading and it showed no noticeable difference...still right at or slightly above 7.0. I added just under 1ml of PH Down per gallon. I tested 5 minutes after adding it and then 35 minutes after adding it. After 5 minutes of adding the PH Down, PH read about 5.0 or slightly BELOW. After 35 minutes it read right about 6.0. The instructions clearly state to wait 15 to 30 minutes to test it. I simply don't have the tools to get as granular as 1/10ths of a PH point.

I went ahead and watered the most I've ever watered...About 6 oz per 3" pot and between 9 and 12 oz per 4" plant. Got great run-off. Tested the runoff and it was at 7.0 which is a big improvement from the 8.5 that the last watering tested at.

So this PH stuff is brand new to me. If my run-off is 7 and I'm trying to keep my water at 5.8 to 6.0, do I want to be trying to PH my water at like 5.0 and once my run-off is at 6 then I know Im good and then at that point try and PH my water going in to 6? Or should I expect that my run-off will always be higher than the water going in?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 13, 2014)

And btw, plants look gorgeous this morning. I will wait until this evening to take pictures.


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## akhiymjames (Sep 13, 2014)

Just like Five said pushing your plants is what you wanna do but you just don't wanna push them to the point of stressing and burning and lockout. 

I don't know what Five said is true or not about RH allowing for higher EC but I do know that strain and genetics plays a major role in how much the plant will eat. 

The pH runoff is still high because I think you have a build up from when you fed full strength and not watering and getting runoff. Flush with pH water till your runoff comes out in the range it needs to be between 5.5-6.5 when flushing flush with 3x the size of the pot. Also coco has tendencies to get salt build up so when you water you want at least 20% run off to help rinse build up. 

Main thing is to watch your plants after feeding. This will be your indicator to tell you if you need to bump up food or back off.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 13, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> Just like Five said pushing your plants is what you wanna do but you just don't wanna push them to the point of stressing and burning and lockout.
> 
> I don't know what Five said is true or not about RH allowing for higher EC but I do know that strain and genetics plays a major role in how much the plant will eat.
> 
> ...


OK. Thanks, that helps!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 13, 2014)

So it's been a little over two hours since feeding and they look awesome. I think I heard one of the girls say "That was delicious...what's for desert?"


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 13, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> ....Flush with pH water till your runoff comes out in the range it needs to be between 5.5-6.5 when flushing flush with 3x the size of the pot. Also coco has tendencies to get salt build up so when you water you want at least 20% run off to help rinse build up....


I just looked up the specs on my pots and the 3"x10" have a volume of 1 Liter and the 4"x12" pots have a volume of 2.3 Liters.
Are you saying when I flush that I should flush with 3 Liters for the 3" pots??? That sounds like a crazy large amount of water.

Edit: sorry for all the newb questions. Im going to get reading on these topics.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 13, 2014)

150 ppm is pretty soft. That's good! You don't have to flush now since your plants are doing good. A bit of run-of 15-20 % should be sufficient to avoid salt buildups. Many people do well with no run-of. You don't have to care to much about the ph of the run-of water, that can swing a bit depending on what nutes your plants are taking up. If The EC/PPM of run of is much higher than the water you give them it's a good sign of that they bit are so hungry any more.. What substrate are you using? If it's buffered it should help with PH stability, but could also ad some EC. According to Canna you should not flush buffered coco with plain water, cause that will wash away the buffering agent...

I'm glad everything is looking good now!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 13, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> 150 ppm is pretty soft. That's good! You don't have to flush now since your plants are doing good. A bit of run-of 15-20 % should be sufficient to avoid salt buildups. Many people do well with no run-of. You don't have to care to much about the ph of the run-of water, that can swing a bit depending on what nutes your plants are taking up. If The EC/PPM of run of is much higher than the water you give them it's a good sign of that they bit are so hungry any more.. What substrate are you using? If it's buffered it should help with PH stability, but could also ad some EC. According to Canna you should not flush buffered coco with plain water, cause that will wash away the buffering agent...
> 
> I'm glad everything is looking good now!


The coco im using is this:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003MOD2HY

I have a lot of coarse perlite in there too tho...about 60% coco 40% perlite


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## akhiymjames (Sep 13, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I just looked up the specs on my pots and the 3"x10" have a volume of 1 Liter and the 4"x12" pots have a volume of 2.3 Liters.
> Are you saying when I flush that I should flush with 3 Liters for the 3" pots??? That sounds like a crazy large amount of water.
> 
> Edit: sorry for all the newb questions. Im going to get reading on these topics.


Not crazy at all bro. That's how I flush my big girl in all perlite. Three times should wash away any build up but there's no need now as plants are growing good. Just keep feeding in the range of pH and get that 15-20 runoff like Five said you should be fine. Only if you see any major deficiencies should you flush like that


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 13, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> The coco im using is this:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003MOD2HY
> 
> I have a lot of coarse perlite in there too tho...about 60% coco 40% perlite


I've never heard of that brand. Don't know if it's because i'm in europe.. But googling around don't give me much info either. The same brand also sells coco-fiber doormats. Lets hope its not the same fibers they are using for both purposes.. The process of washing out the salts from coco is pretty time consuming. Fibers should be bathing in water for several months etc. Low quality coco can contain pretty much salts... You really should invest in EC-meter it's the only way to tell. But the fact that you burnt your seedlings with seedling-doses of nutrition raises questions, especially since your water is so relatively soft. Maybe you should follow the flushing procedure AK was suggesting after all. I don't think there is any buffering to wash away, anyways.

Your Coco coir could be just fine, and even if there is some salts you will be fine if you have some runoff. But you won't be able to give them as much nutes - especially not in the beginning.. Canna And Botanicare are top contenders. Ive tried B'cuzz bounce, Canna cogro, and Canna pro plus. The two former ones left salts in runoff, especially b'cuzz. CAnna pro plus is almost totally clean, which is strange considering how powerful the buffering seem to be. It also contains tricoderma. I'm not selling anything here, and like to say that many people prefer botanicare, and that there probably is several good brands out there. Though i do believe that the pre-moistured once, often are better than the compressed ones.

About perlite, it's not really necessary with coco, since coco holds enough air by it self. Not entirely sure about this, but I also do think some perlite will raise PH of your runoff, since it's closer to 7 than than 6.. I don't think it's harmful or anything just somthing to be aware of if you are checking runoff PH..


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## akhiymjames (Sep 13, 2014)

I bet those are good products Five but remember your in Europe so I don't know if we can get those over here. 

You should be fine bro just keep feeding and get the runoff. If you order that coco again maybe you need to soak it in ph'd water before using it but long as you don't see any deficiencies your fine


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 13, 2014)

*Day 18 Update
*
Ladies are looking great after this morning's feed. Not much else to report so I'll just post some pictures.

Barneys Farm Seeds Critical Kush - KC Brains Northern Lights Special
These are the same two I will post daily...#11 on the left and #7 on the right.

 


Barneys Farm Seeds Top Dawg




Connoisseur Genetics Seeds East Coast Sour Diesel Haze Side




Connoisseur Genetics Seeds East Coast Sour Diesel Haze Top


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 13, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> I've never heard of that brand. Don't know if it's because i'm in europe.. But googling around don't give me much info either. The same brand also sells coco-fiber doormats. Lets hope its not the same fibers they are using for both purposes.. The process of washing out the salts from coco is pretty time consuming. Fibers should be bathing in water for several months etc. Low quality coco can contain pretty much salts... You really should invest in EC-meter it's the only way to tell. But the fact that you burnt your seedlings with seedling-doses of nutrition raises questions, especially since your water is so relatively soft. Maybe you should follow the flushing procedure AK was suggesting after all. I don't think there is any buffering to wash away, anyways.
> 
> Your Coco coir could be just fine, and even if there is some salts you will be fine if you have some runoff. But you won't be able to give them as much nutes - especially not in the beginning.. Canna And Botanicare are top contenders. Ive tried B'cuzz bounce, Canna cogro, and Canna pro plus. The two former ones left salts in runoff, especially b'cuzz. CAnna pro plus is almost totally clean, which is strange considering how powerful the buffering seem to be. It also contains tricoderma. I'm not selling anything here, and like to say that many people prefer botanicare, and that there probably is several good brands out there. Though i do believe that the pre-moistured once, often are better than the compressed ones.
> 
> About perlite, it's not really necessary with coco, since coco holds enough air by it self. Not entirely sure about this, but I also do think some perlite will raise PH of your runoff, since it's closer to 7 than than 6.. I don't think it's harmful or anything just somthing to be aware of if you are checking runoff PH..


I'm afraid I probably got average or below quality...a real shame if I did. I spent 3 days washing it 3 separate times so I'm not too terrible worried about it. The fact my run off is still brown is bothersome but all my waterings will now have run off so it should be alright.

Regarding perlite, I'll track down the guy who did a nice side by side. 100% coco, 90/10 and 70/30 if my memory serves. 100% coco yielded the least, 90/10 came in 2nd and 70/30 came in top...30% more yield than 100% coco if I recall. I'll try and find the journal for you.

Edit: Here is one of the journals...not the one I was thinking about but this was the 2nd one I had read and made notes about:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=108257
Scan to page 4 to see the guys results.


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## akhiymjames (Sep 13, 2014)

They def look good and 1/4-1/2 half strength should be fine for them. Keep them nice and green and next time go for a better coco. Roots Organic has some, Canna, CYCO, and many more.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 14, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> They def look good and 1/4-1/2 half strength should be fine for them. Keep them nice and green and next time go for a better coco. Roots Organic has some, Canna, CYCO, and many more.



AK. I think there is a missunderstanding here.. The guy is talking about 1/4 strength of Seedling-strength, which basically is 1/16 of flowering strength.. they are definitely big enoygh to handle 0-8 - 1.0 EC or close to half strength of full strength. IF that is a problem the coco really is very salty... Coco should be inert and treated just like hydro or rockwool slabs.. If it's not a misunderstanding i can only say, each to his own.. At east the to "advisers" agree on that you should up it up, in steps and watch the plants carefully, so as long as you do that the "different opinions?" doen't really matter.

Love to you all!


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 14, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Day 18 Update
> *
> Ladies are looking great after this morning's feed. Not much else to report so I'll just post some pictures.
> 
> ...


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 14, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> AK. I think there is a missunderstanding here.. The guy is talking about 1/4 strength of Seedling-strength, which basically is 1/16 of flowering strength.. they are definitely big enoygh to handle 0-8 - 1.0 EC or close to half strength of full strength. IF that is a problem the coco really is very salty... Coco should be inert and treated just like hydro or rockwool slabs.. If it's not a misunderstanding i can only say, each to his own.. At east the to "advisers" agree on that you should up it up, in steps and watch the plants carefully, so as long as you do that the "different opinions?" doen't really matter.
> 
> Love to you all!


I suppose the only way to know where the line is is by stepping over it. I will begin gradually increasing until there is a problem.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 14, 2014)

I think within the next week I am going to remove some of these. Oddly, almost all of the plants in the 3" pots are doing better than the 4" ones. Maybe just a coincidence.
Most of the strains have (1) in 3" and (2) in 4". Considering removing the weaker of the two in the 4" pots to make the experiment more manageable.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 14, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I think within the next week I am going to remove some of these. Oddly, almost all of the plants in the 3" pots are doing better than the 4" ones. Maybe just a coincidence.
> Most of the strains have (1) in 3" and (2) in 4". Considering removing the weaker of the two in the 4" pots to make the experiment more manageable.


Could it be that the smaller pots have been better flushed? I would have waited with removal of plants, until issues with over crowding? But Since "I" in this case is very theoretical, I don't have to water or manage the plants in any other way..


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 14, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> Could it be that the smaller pots have been better flushed? I would have waited with removal of plants, until issues with over crowding? But Since "I" in this case is very theoretical, I don't have to water or manage the plants in any other way..


Smaller pots being better flushed seems like the most logical reason. They just don't hold anywhere near the amount of water. In order to justify the 4" pots, they will have to yield 78% more than the 3" pots. To me, at this point, this seems extremely unlikely.

In the event I attempt to transplant a few of these from the 4" pots down to the 3" pots, do you have any suggestions or tips? I've never downsized a transplant.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 14, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> Could it be that the smaller pots have been better flushed? I would have waited with removal of plants, until issues with over crowding? But Since "I" in this case is very theoretical, I don't have to water or manage the plants in any other way..


A comment on over-crowding. In these pots, overcrowding is just going to be an issue no matter what. I have no intention of spacing the pots out as it would completely defeat the purpose of the experiment. That being said, it could be way too early for me to start cheering the 3" pots and frown on the 4" ers


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 14, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> Could it be that the smaller pots have been better flushed? I would have waited with removal of plants, until issues with over crowding? But Since "I" in this case is very theoretical, I don't have to water or manage the plants in any other way..


I guess to confirm, I need to very aggressively water the 4" pots today to get really good run-off. I'll do this and then monitor for a few days before I make any decisions.


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## akhiymjames (Sep 14, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> AK. I think there is a missunderstanding here.. The guy is talking about 1/4 strength of Seedling-strength, which basically is 1/16 of flowering strength.. they are definitely big enoygh to handle 0-8 - 1.0 EC or close to half strength of full strength. IF that is a problem the coco really is very salty... Coco should be inert and treated just like hydro or rockwool slabs.. If it's not a misunderstanding i can only say, each to his own.. At east the to "advisers" agree on that you should up it up, in steps and watch the plants carefully, so as long as you do that the "different opinions?" doen't really matter.
> 
> Love to you all!


No bro I think your misunderstanding what ive been saying. I've been telling him to feed at 1/4-1/2 strength of what the feeding chart is telling him. There's no way the side of his plants can take full strength nutes right now. They will be stunted and could potentially die. That's why he had stunted growth in the beginning because he gave them full strength nutes of what the chart says. Not talking about the strength of the seedling. 

He has no ec or ppm meter so therefore be can't measure the ec/ppm of the water he's giving them. With him not having one there's no way to tell how much is in a full strength feed so it best to start off low and work up.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 14, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> No bro I think your misunderstanding what ive been saying. I've been telling him to feed at 1/4-1/2 strength of what the feeding chart is telling him. There's no way the side of his plants can take full strength nutes right now. They will be stunted and could potentially die. That's why he had stunted growth in the beginning because he gave them full strength nutes of what the chart says. Not talking about the strength of the seedling.
> 
> He has no ec or ppm meter so therefore be can't measure the ec/ppm of the water he's giving them. With him not having one there's no way to tell how much is in a full strength feed so it best to start off low and work up.


I actually have a PPM meter I can use...just nothing that measures EC. When I mixed the nutes yesterday at full strength on the seedling schedule (before I diluted down to 2/3rd strength), we came in at just shy of 500 ppm. My tap water is at about 170 ppm.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 15, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> No bro I think your misunderstanding what ive been saying. I've been telling him to feed at 1/4-1/2 strength of what the feeding chart is telling him. There's no way the side of his plants can take full strength nutes right now. They will be stunted and could potentially die. That's why he had stunted growth in the beginning because he gave them full strength nutes of what the chart says. Not talking about the strength of the seedling.
> 
> He has no ec or ppm meter so therefore be can't measure the ec/ppm of the water he's giving them. With him not having one there's no way to tell how much is in a full strength feed so it best to start off low and work up.


No problem bro, I think we are misunderstanding each other... I f you look at the charts you can se that the feeding that is recommended in early veg is only a quarter of what is recommended in full bloom. http://www.blueplanetnutrients.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=73&Itemid=113

My point is that even if they recommend a higher dosage than optimal, 1/16 of "the recomended dose in bloom" (one quarter of 1/4 is 1/16) has to be on the very low end, even for seedlings.

I use Canna, and they recommend half of full strength for seedlings over a week old. (EC 0.9 instead of 1,

Peace.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 15, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I actually have a PPM meter I can use...just nothing that measures EC. When I mixed the nutes yesterday at full strength on the seedling schedule (before I diluted down to 2/3rd strength), we came in at just shy of 500 ppm. My tap water is at about 170 ppm.


Very good! ppm and EC both measures electrical conductivity, just on different scales. 500 ppm = EC 0.714. So that's not high at all. they should easely be able to handle a ppm of 750-900 ppm given that your coco isn't very salty. if you water a plant very slowly and catch the runoff, you can measure that runoff to get an idea. You don't want the runoff to be much higher than the feeding you give them.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 15, 2014)

I still don't rthink you should to up the dosage more than maximum 150 ppm at the time..


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 15, 2014)

Lights come on in 10 minutes. I'm going to do a feed with a lot of run-off.
This feed is 100% strength at the seedling schedule which happens to be 50% strength at the Week 3 veg schedule.

Tentatively, I am planning on watering with nutes every other day and slowly increasing.
I'm waiting the suggested 30 minutes after using PH down and I will take a PH reading and a PPM reading before I water. I will also measure the run off for both PH and PPM and will report back.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 15, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> Very good! ppm and EC both measures electrical conductivity, just on different scales. 500 ppm = EC 0.714. So that's not high at all. they should easely be able to handle a ppm of 750-900 ppm given that your coco isn't very salty. if you water a plant very slowly and catch the runoff, you can measure that runoff to get an idea. You don't want the runoff to be much higher than the feeding you give them.


I did not know you can calculate EC from PPM. Genius!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 15, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> I still don't rthink you should to up the dosage more than maximum 150 ppm at the time..


OK...I'll try and estimate my gradual increases in 100 to 150 PPM increments then!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 15, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I did not know you can calculate EC from PPM. Genius!


1 Unit of EC = 700 PPM. Now that is just plain simple!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 15, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> Very good! ppm and EC both measures electrical conductivity, just on different scales. 500 ppm = EC 0.714. So that's not high at all. they should easely be able to handle a ppm of 750-900 ppm given that your coco isn't very salty. if you water a plant very slowly and catch the runoff, you can measure that runoff to get an idea. You don't want the runoff to be much higher than the feeding you give them.


Because my salt content is unknown, is it safe to assume that if I use a LOT of water on each feeding that it should be flushing as I water?
For example, I'm planning on watering with about 4 gallons today and I'll probably have over 3 gallons of run off. I know this is wasteful of nutes but I don't care about that.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 15, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I have not read that but I will right now.
> 
> I have never removed fan leaves (at least that I can remember) so I will have to not only be careful but will need to do some controlled tests. Perhaps I will do no defoliating on some, minor on some and major on some and just log the results.
> 
> ...


Missed this post: Yeah that guy seems to have dialed in his strain pretty well! Kudos to him! Dealing with clones is an advantage in that way!


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 15, 2014)

Yeah  or you can be lazy! https://4hydroponics.com/site/convert-ppm

"Because my salt content is unknown, is it safe to assume that if I use a LOT of water on each feeding that it should be flushing as I water?
For example, I'm planning on watering with about 4 gallons today and I'll probably have over 3 gallons of run off. I know this is wasteful of nutes but I don't care about that."

True, but, its really a shame to keeps nutes that low and waste a lot of it if you don't have to! Measure the runoff and look after signs of nute burn as you slowly raise the EC... Eh sorry PPM. Is everyone on this forum americans?


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 15, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Regarding making fem seeds, these are the notes I have taken. If anyone has personal experience doing so please chime in!
> 
> How to Fem Seeds
> http://forum.grasscity.com/advanced-growing-techniques/1179921-diy-sts-silver-thiosulfate-solution-how-guide-reversing-plants.html
> ...


It was a long time since i read up on the subject. I do remember that you could buy a prepared spray on ebay. I thing it's super-interesting. You will probably end up with some genetical diversity. More or less, depending on what parents (mother-shemale lol) you use.I think the best way would be to use two genetically distant in-bread lines such as NL or afghani and a stable haze from a reputable breeder, and in that way achieving a pure F1.. Or maybe selfing a very in-bread line.. I'm currently looking at Santa maria, from No mercy seeds for the selfing project. It's supposedly back crossed for 8 generations. Still selfing isn't suposed to really give you the "clone in a seed" we would optimally like to have for gardens like ours.. But maybe close, and incredibly cheap! Not to mention the fun of it!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 15, 2014)

I just watered. 15 3" pots and 30 4" pots. 1 Liter volume and 2.3 Liter volume capacities respectively. 5 whole gallons of water PH'd to 6. PPM came in at 505 so this is pretty weak, yes?
In an hour or so I'll measure the amount of run-off I get...Volume, PH and PPM.

Update: Run off came in at 391 PPM @ 6.7 PH. I'm estimating PH cause I have the paper strips.


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## Pass it Around (Sep 15, 2014)

Seems a little low but if your plants are looking healthy keep with what works.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 15, 2014)

Pass it Around said:


> Seems a little low but if your plants are looking healthy keep with what works.


Next feeding/watering will be in 2 days. I will increase nute regiment 20% giving me an approximate PPM of 600. Barely had enough water too. Think I will prepare 7 gallons next time.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 15, 2014)

Pass it Around said:


> Seems a little low but if your plants are looking healthy keep with what works.


Feeding them low will not harm the plants.. BUT, feeding them harder could result in quicker growth, and quicker maturing/flowering plants with tighter node spacing... This is less important if you are dealing with clones, cause they will stretch less and kick start flowering. Starving clones can be an excellent way to keep Clones/plants on hold until you have space in your flower room.. Though preferably with a little less light intensity, than a 600 w MH is giving.. 

Seriously, what would the world look like if we always sticked to "what works"? Maybe we never would have lost that eden.. but we would neither have grown sensimilla, hydrophonicly, under artificial lighting..


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 15, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Next feeding/watering will be in 2 days. I will increase nute regiment 20% giving me an approximate PPM of 600. Barely had enough water too. Think I will prepare 7 gallons next time.


Sounds like a good plan!


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## Pass it Around (Sep 15, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> Feeding them low will not harm the plants.. BUT, feeding them harder could result in quicker growth, and quicker maturing/flowering plants with tighter node spacing... This is less important if you are dealing with clones, cause they will stretch less and kick start flowering. Starving clones can be an excellent way to keep Clones/plants on hold until you have space in your flower room.. Though preferably with a little less light intensity, than a 600 w MH is giving..
> 
> Seriously, what would the world look like if we always sticked to "what works"? Maybe we never would have lost that eden.. but we would neither have grown sensimilla, hydrophonicly, under artificial lighting..


My advice was sound, keeping it simple prevents you from burning your plants and some strains don't need 1500 ppms. I apologize mr expert I promise I won't offer any advice anymore.

In fact, if you want to know what is going wrong with your grow if anything the best way to eliminate the details is to use the same thing you have been using. It is easier to adjust something that is constant than it is to try and play guess n check.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 15, 2014)

Pass it Around said:


> My advice was sound, keeping it simple prevents you from burning your plants and some strains don't need 1500 ppms. I apologize mr expert I promise I won't offer any advice anymore.
> 
> In fact, if you want to know what is going wrong with your grow if anything the best way to eliminate the details is to use the same thing you have been using. It is easier to adjust something that is constant than it is to try and play guess n check.


Sorry if i was a bit harsh, but I've always hated that argument, please don't get offended! It seems to me as you guys are soil growers? Coco is inert and should be treated like hydro! If you think about it that way maybe my advice sounds less absurd.. I've only grown in coco and never in soil, so this is all i know.. I would never suggest going up to 1500 PPM. until the most explosive flowering period, and not all strains takes it well even at that stage. Most of my grows, i haven't past 1300 ppm, and i could never do it in summer time.. But this winter i intend to push it as far as i can. I've read that you can push it further without ill effects if you pull back on nitrogen.. But if that's true remains to be seen.


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## Pass it Around (Sep 15, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> Sorry if i was a bit harsh, but I've always hated that argument, please don't get offended! It seems to me as you guys are soil growers? Coco is inert and should be treated like hydro! If you think about it that way maybe my advice sounds less absurd.. I've only grown in coco and never in soil, so this is all i know.. I would never suggest going up to 1500 PPM. until the most explosive flowering period, and not all strains takes it well even at that stage. Most of my grows, i haven't past 1300 ppm, and i could never do it in summer time.. But this winter i intend to push it as far as i can. I've read that you can push it further without ill effects if you pull back on nitrogen.. But if that's true remains to be seen.


My bad dude, not your fault at all. I have some mental issues so until I medicate I can get that feeling like im backed into a wall or whatnot. My apologies for taking it wrong. You are completely right about the coco, I am doing soil for my organic and I have one ebb and flow 2x4 tray that is testing out hydro. I am really surprised at how long my res stays > 1000 ppm. The plants take what they want and leave the rest and the res is nice and clean still. This plant never ceases to amaze me.

My apologies again, im back in the right mindset.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 15, 2014)

No worries bro! It might also be a clash of culture differences. I know that north European people are more straight forward than Americans, we even talk politics lol. Maybe have to play things more low-key so that I don't scare away people from this thread..  The fact that your Rez stays the same should mean that your plants take up nutes and water at an equal pace. The question is if they would drink more if you fed them heavier? I've never done the real hydro-thing, so can't do anything but ask questions.


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## Pass it Around (Sep 15, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> No worries bro! It might also be a clash of culture differences. I know that north European people are more straight forward than Americans, we even talk politics lol. Maybe have to play things more low-key so that I don't scare away people from this thread..  The fact that your Rez stays the same should mean that your plants take up nutes and water at an equal pace. The question is if they would drink more if you fed them heavier? I've never done the real hydro-thing, so can't do anything but ask questions.


This is my first hydro run ever, I was following the Lucas Formula as it is really simple for someone new to follow. Usually I just use soil but I am searching for the best way that I can grow personally. Once I find out what works for me I will play with the formula more and start taking heavy notes about even the most minute details so I can try to understand more.

I love talking politics and marijuana, I just need to drink my coffee first and have a little smoke. Too many people in my country are more interested in just shooting down each other and not using real evidence for their arguments. I feel like the people here are dropping in intelligence every year. Hardly anyone picks up a book anymore.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 15, 2014)

If my doughter wasn't still awake I would suggest the old North American tradition of smoking a peace pipe! I'll keep you in mind when I get the chance, have a good one!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 15, 2014)

*Day 20 Update
*
Did an aggressive watering this morning to continue trying to flush the coco. Increased the nutes to 100% of the seedling schedule or 50% of the week 3 Veg schedule. PPM at 500 or so.
Plants are looking pretty good for the most part (I think). I have 2 plants with a noticeable deficiency and I would like feedback if you don't mind. The 2 plants that have the deficiency are labeled accordingly in the attachments. It looks like a Calcium issue to my novice eyes.

I tried to include several overview shots from different angles including one from above.

I am showing good 'ol #7 and #11 in the picture called NL CK.

In the picture called Node spacing, I tried to pick a good example that represents the *average* node spacing. How are we looking?

Barneys Farm Seeds Top Dawg picture is the shortest most compact plant and is looking pretty kick ass.
Barneys Farm Seeds Tangerine Dream has very odd texture to the leaves. This is not new...she has looked this way from the start. Her 2 sisters do not have this texture to them.
Barneys Farm Seeds Chronic Thunder is just a nice looking plant so I took a picture of her.

It seems like the girls are starting to drink now. Before, it seemed like I could water as infrequently as once a week but now I notice a difference in weight when I lift the pots. This is good...even though I will have to water more frequently.

I would love your opinion on how this is going. Do they look to be doing OK?

Thanks!


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## DirtyNerd (Sep 16, 2014)

Looking good Diggity when will you be transplanting


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## Mr.Head (Sep 16, 2014)

Looking great, if you need to scrap something scrap the Barneys Tangerine dream, it's one of the consistently worst reviewed strains around. I've seen maybe 2-3 growers get something worth actually growing, let alone keeping for more then 1 cycle.
Plants are looking great and healthy. Good job.



Fiveleafsleft said:


> No worries bro! It might also be a clash of culture differences. I know that north European people are more straight forward than Americans, we even talk politics lol. Maybe have to play things more low-key so that I don't scare away people from this thread..  The fact that your Rez stays the same should mean that your plants take up nutes and water at an equal pace. The question is if they would drink more if you fed them heavier? I've never done the real hydro-thing, so can't do anything but ask questions.


Americans don't talk politics because of their blind party loyalty, makes for not much of a conversation when their side of the aisle can do no wrong, seems like there are very few Americans that vote for the substance of the candidate rather then what Animal their party is represented by, fuck the elephants you know?. Conservatives are trying to bring that to Canada now, it's worked the last couple elections, this next one is setting up for a huge defeat of their Americanized system.

That's my opinion on why American's don't discuss politics, it quickly gets heated because party loyalty is so ingrained in their culture you might as well be attacking their family members to question their party.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 16, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> Looking good Diggity when will you be transplanting


I actually won't be transplanting. This experiment is not only about finding suitable strains for 12/12 FS but also on pot size.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 16, 2014)

Mr.Head said:


> Looking great, if you need to scrap something scrap the Barneys Tangerine dream, it's one of the consistently worst reviewed strains around. I've seen maybe 2-3 growers get something worth actually growing, let alone keeping for more then 1 cycle.
> Plants are looking great and healthy. Good job.


Thanks for the kind words. That's too bad about the Tangerine...oh well. I'll be sure to note this regardless if she does well or not.


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## Mr.Head (Sep 16, 2014)

heard DNA's Tangie is good, haven't got a chance to grow any out yet though. Not on the agenda for this year  maybe next.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 16, 2014)

Mr.Head said:


> heard DNA's Tangie is good, haven't got a chance to grow any out yet though. Not on the agenda for this year  maybe next.


Going into this experiment, I was hoping to find 2 or 3 strains out of the 21 that would be good candidates. So even if most of these turn out to be duds I won't be disappointed.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 16, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Going into this experiment, I was hoping to find 2 or 3 strains out of the 21 that would be good candidates. So even if most of these turn out to be duds I won't be disappointed.


Your plants look great! Will take a closer look when I'm not on my iPhone. But node spacing is tighter than I ever had!  it's difficult to achieve with HPS, and to weak LEDs. My next run, when I'm rocking 8 cxa's will be different though! 

Can't give you any feedback on deficiencies, never had any problems of that kind, so never looked in to it. Seem like I dirt problem.. At least canna or hesi with coco, never gave me those issues... I think that I back in 2006 had problems with Spin, and that it gave my leafs brown spots and slightly stunted the growth.. Maybe will get better when you go heavier on the feeding. My only advice so far LOL!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 16, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> Your plants look great! Will take a closer look when I'm not on my iPhone. But node spacing is tighter than I ever had!  it's difficult to achieve with HPS, and to weak LEDs. My next run, when I'm rocking 8 cxa's will be different though!
> 
> Can't give you any feedback on deficiencies, never had any problems of that kind, so never looked in to it. Seem like I dirt problem.. At least canna or hesi with coco, never gave me those issues... I think that I back in 2006 had problems with Spin, and that it gave my leafs brown spots and slightly stunted the growth.. Maybe will get better when you go heavier on the feeding. My only advice so far LOL!


I posted my deficiencies in the Plant Problems forum and I got a report of a possible Manganese toxicity so I will no longer be using CalMag and stick with my nute regiment and will be slowly increasing PPM as you suggested. Thanks for looking!


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 16, 2014)

Mr.Head said:


> Looking great, if you need to scrap something scrap the Barneys Tangerine dream, it's one of the consistently worst reviewed strains around. I've seen maybe 2-3 growers get something worth actually growing, let alone keeping for more then 1 cycle.
> Plants are looking great and healthy. Good job.
> 
> 
> ...


We have a left wing, right wing situation in Sweden to , but people seem to change party a bit more than in the states.. A big issue in the states is that it's almost impossible for a third party to develop. The limit is what, 15%? So basically a vote on that party is a vote in the sea. Two parties, will generate polarization.. I've found Americans to be very nice people! Outgoing, polite and very good at socializing. And if I generalize a bit I must say that Swedes are more shy, and much worse at conversations people they just met, but better at telling when they disagree. I've heard that the mentality of Canadians and swedes resembles a bit, but hardly ever met any, so can't tell if there's something to it.


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## patriots1818 (Sep 17, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> Not harping on you in anyway but those babies look a lil small to be getting fed right now. I know your in coco but you should be able to just water those girls with plain water for a while till they get much bigger. I start all my beans now in perlite and just feed high pH tap water 8.5-9 the first couple weeks. When you flush why do you add calmag and blueplanet? Just use pH'd water. Hope they start to take off soon for you


 I found this interesting.. you grow in straight perlite and only give your seeds/seedlings/young plants high pH tap water for the first couple weeks/ What is the advantage to having high pH water during this stage?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 17, 2014)

patriots1818 said:


> I found this interesting.. you grow in straight perlite and only give your seeds/seedlings/young plants high pH tap water for the first couple weeks/ What is the advantage to having high pH water during this stage?


I was confused by that as well but forgot to ask. I think when I read it the first time I assumed he meant his tap water was 8.5-9 and he PH'd it down but who knows.


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## patriots1818 (Sep 17, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I was confused by that as well but forgot to ask. I think when I read it the first time I assumed he meant his tap water was 8.5-9 and he PH'd it down but who knows.


Since you stopped giving your plants nutes in early stages and given plain pH'd water have you been successful? At what point should nutes first be given then?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 17, 2014)

patriots1818 said:


> Since you stopped giving your plants nutes in early stages and given plain pH'd water have you been successful? At what point should nutes first be given then?


Hey Patriots,

Don't confuse what I'm doing and what James said that he is doing. He has been helping me a lot since some of my early problems.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 17, 2014)

patriots1818 said:


> Since you stopped giving your plants nutes in early stages and given plain pH'd water have you been successful? At what point should nutes first be given then?


So I had a lot of problems early on. Using 60% coco and 40% perlite. I fed too early which caused some burn. Then I was watering daily but very small amounts with no run-off. When I did my 1st heavy watering that generated run-off, my run-off tested at 8.5 PH.

Fast forward a couple weeks and I am now feeding at every water but I am watering them aggressively so I get a lot of run-off. Kind of a pseudo flush on every watering.

The general consensus about when to start feeding is when the 3rd set of real leaves arrives.


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## patriots1818 (Sep 17, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> So I had a lot of problems early on. Using 60% coco and 40% perlite. I fed too early which caused some burn. Then I was watering daily but very small amounts with no run-off. When I did my 1st heavy watering that generated run-off, my run-off tested at 8.5 PH.
> 
> Fast forward a couple weeks and I am now feeding at every water but I am watering them aggressively so I get a lot of run-off. Kind of a pseudo flush on every watering.
> 
> The general consensus about when to start feeding is when the 3rd set of real leaves arrives.


Thanks man. What I got was:
Water daily small amounts no run off in beginning then 3 set of real leaves and bam i start my nutes!

(This would still be okay in 100% perlite hempy bucket method right?)


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 17, 2014)

patriots1818 said:


> Thanks man. What I got was:
> Water daily small amounts no run off in beginning then 3 set of real leaves and bam i start my nutes!
> 
> (This would still be okay in 100% perlite hempy bucket method right?)


That sounds probably correct but I'm still learning too! The only advice I would give is to be PH'ing your water from day 1. I was not and I think that led to the PH level in my pots getting too high.


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## patriots1818 (Sep 17, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> That sounds probably correct but I'm still learning too! The only advice I would give is to be PH'ing your water from day 1. I was not and I think that led to the PH level in my pots getting too high.


Word man will do.


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## akhiymjames (Sep 17, 2014)

patriots1818 said:


> I found this interesting.. you grow in straight perlite and only give your seeds/seedlings/young plants high pH tap water for the first couple weeks/ What is the advantage to having high pH water during this stage?


I just feed the seedlings for the 1st week or two just plain tap water and the reason I do this is cus seedlings don't need much food to grow mainly water. The high pH won't affect them much at all cus they're not really vegging they're establishing roots. Once two weeks hit I begin feeding 1/4 strength of what the nutes call for.

There is no advantage of having high pH but it does take that step of pH'ing the water out. With perlite the main thing is keeping the perlite moist so the roots don't dry out. PH is important once you start feeding cus you want the nutes that your feeding in the right pH range. Hopes I explained this so you understand. 

I have 3 seedlings in perlite right now and I started feeding a week early to see if this would help speed them up some. I don't think it will do much but it should help some but I know they would speed up more if I put them under stronger light. They're only under 100 watts of cfl right now


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## patriots1818 (Sep 17, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> I just feed the seedlings for the 1st week or two just plain tap water and the reason I do this is cus seedlings don't need much food to grow mainly water. The high pH won't affect them much at all cus they're not really vegging they're establishing roots. Once two weeks hit I begin feeding 1/4 strength of what the nutes call for.
> 
> There is no advantage of having high pH but it does take that step of pH'ing the water out. With perlite the main thing is keeping the perlite moist so the roots don't dry out. PH is important once you start feeding cus you want the nutes that your feeding in the right pH range. Hopes I explained this so you understand.
> 
> I have 3 seedlings in perlite right now and I started feeding a week early to see if this would help speed them up some. I don't think it will do much but it should help some but I know they would speed up more if I put them under stronger light. They're only under 100 watts of cfl right now


Interesting, dude you explained that perfectly thank you so much lol. Please keep me updated on how starting the nutes a week early went I'm about to start my grow and I'll follow whatever worked best for you lol.


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## akhiymjames (Sep 17, 2014)

patriots1818 said:


> Thanks man. What I got was:
> Water daily small amounts no run off in beginning then 3 set of real leaves and bam i start my nutes!
> 
> (This would still be okay in 100% perlite hempy bucket method right?)


You got it bro. I have my seedlings in small 1gal hempy pots I made out of my daughters McDonald's Halloween Happy Meal buckets lol. Once the roots hit the bottom of the bucket(the res in hempy) you will then want to feed with runoff. This will help with salt build up and give the roots fresh nute water. The main thing with perlite is not let the roots dry out but once it's big enough you don't want to over water. Lift the pot when you first feed and notice the weight come back in a couple days and lift it again see how light it is and that will help you determine if you need to water just don't let perlite dry completely out cus salt will build up and that when problems arise with pH problems and lockout


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## patriots1818 (Sep 17, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> I just feed the seedlings for the 1st week or two just plain tap water and the reason I do this is cus seedlings don't need much food to grow mainly water. The high pH won't affect them much at all cus they're not really vegging they're establishing roots. Once two weeks hit I begin feeding 1/4 strength of what the nutes call for.
> 
> There is no advantage of having high pH but it does take that step of pH'ing the water out. With perlite the main thing is keeping the perlite moist so the roots don't dry out. PH is important once you start feeding cus you want the nutes that your feeding in the right pH range. Hopes I explained this so you understand.
> 
> I have 3 seedlings in perlite right now and I started feeding a week early to see if this would help speed them up some. I don't think it will do much but it should help some but I know they would speed up more if I put them under stronger light. They're only under 100 watts of cfl right now


So after two weeks you give 1/4 of the "full strength" measurements on the back for the nutes? Also did you just put the seeds straight in perlite?


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## patriots1818 (Sep 17, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> You got it bro. I have my seedlings in small 1gal hempy pots I made out of my daughters McDonald's Halloween Happy Meal buckets lol. Once the roots hit the bottom of the bucket(the res in hempy) you will then want to feed with runoff. This will help with salt build up and give the roots fresh nute water. The main thing with perlite is not let the roots dry out but once it's big enough you don't want to over water. Lift the pot when you first feed and notice the weight come back in a couple days and lift it again see how light it is and that will help you determine if you need to water just don't let perlite dry completely out cus salt will build up and that when problems arise with pH problems and lockout


LMFAO hahahaha anyways uh another thing i've never quite understood how do you know when the roots have hit the bottom? like is the bucket suppose to be see through or idk?


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## akhiymjames (Sep 17, 2014)

patriots1818 said:


> Interesting, dude you explained that perfectly thank you so much lol. Please keep me updated on how starting the nutes a week early went I'm about to start my grow and I'll follow whatever worked best for you lol.


Just check my journal it's in my signature. I'll post updates about the seedlings there even tho they're different from the plant I'm growing now.

It's good to have a baseline but everyone's setup and conditions are different so there will always be differences and variations. That's why we experiment and find out what work best for us. When you start your grow post a journal so I can come through and help the best I can



patriots1818 said:


> LMFAO hahahaha anyways uh another thing i've never quite understood how do you know when the roots have hit the bottom? like is the bucket suppose to be see through or idk?


Look through the runoff drain hole on the side of the hempy bucket. You should be able to see roots once they reach reach the bottom.


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## patriots1818 (Sep 17, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> Just check my journal it's in my signature. I'll post updates about the seedlings there even tho they're different from the plant I'm growing now.
> 
> It's good to have a baseline but everyone's setup and conditions are different so there will always be differences and variations. That's why we experiment and find out what work best for us. When you start your grow post a journal so I can come through and help the best I can


Will do amen love you man and yeah im stoned so sorry about all my questions hahaha


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## akhiymjames (Sep 17, 2014)

patriots1818 said:


> Will do amen love you man and yeah im stoned so sorry about all my questions hahaha


It's all good bro  I ramble a lot. I love being here learning new things and helping and giving out good info. I only give out info when I know it's right I will never tell anybody something I know that's not true.

P.S sorry Hot Diggity for cluttering up you journal with questions and answers.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 17, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> It's all good bro  I ramble a lot. I love being here learning new things and helping and giving out good info. I only give out info when I know it's right I will never tell anybody something I know that's not true.
> 
> P.S sorry Hot Diggity for cluttering up you journal with questions and answers.


haha, no worries man. We're all here to learn from one another so it's all good.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 17, 2014)

*Day 22 Update*

Continued my strategy of watering every other morning with 50% or more run-off. Run off PH came in between 6.5 and 6.8 so we are getting there. I did not want to try
and drop the PH too drastically all at once by watering with like 5 ish PH so the water going in is as close to 5.8-6.0 as I can get it and it seems to be working.

Mixed 20% stronger nutes today. 

No signs of burn so I feel good about continuing to slowly increase the strength although I might stick with this mix for the next watering and then increase a little more on the watering after that.

Some big decisions were made today regarding the strains. When I started this experiment, the seeds I had picked out were purchased in either 3, 4 or 5 seed lots.
Then I had a bunch of 1 seed strains that were freebies.

I have decided to thin the herd such that every strain I ordered is being represented by (1) 3" Pot and (1) 4" Pot.
Due to luck of the draw, a few strains are not represented at all and a few were over represented.
Several plants were transplanted from 4" down to 3" pots and several plants were removed that were in 4" pots as I had multiples.

I also decided to transplant all of the single seed strains from their 4" Pots down into the 3" pots. The reason is that I'm now more interested in knowing if the 3" pots will suffice.
Based on other people's work, I know the 4" pots will be enough as they have a volume of 2.3 Liters which is quite a bit more than other people's proven 12/12 From seed grows.
Because I only have 1 seed from these strains, I simply do not care too much about them. Without having a 2nd plant as a comparison, the results do not have a lot of meaning.

*Here are the final strains and pot sizes for the experiment:*

*The following strains are represented in both the 3" Pot and 4" Pot *
#2 - Barneys Farm Seeds Top Dawg
#3 - Barneys Farm Seeds G13 Haze
#4 - Barneys Farm Seeds Chronic Thunder
#5 - Barneys Farm Seeds Red Dragon
#6 - Delicious Seeds Critical Jack Herer
#7 - KC Brains Northern Lights Special
#8 - Reserva Privada Sour Kush AKA Headband
#9 - Sensi Seeds Skunk #1
#10 - Sensi Seeds Silver Haze #9
#11 - Barneys Farm Seeds Critical Kush
#12 - Bomb Seeds Bubble Bomb (This was chosen as a Tribute to Del  )
#13 - Connoisseur Genetics Seeds East Coast Sour Diesel Haze
#14 - Strain Hunters Seedbank Seeds Flowerbomb Kush


*These strains were the freebies and are only represented in a single 3" Pot...these are the ones that I transplanted from 4" to 3" today.*
(Transplanting to a smaller pot was a 1st for me). No signs of shock yet so I hope my gentleness pays off. If not, no biggie.
#18 - Barneys Farm Seeds Blue Cheese
#19 - Delicious Seeds Critical Sensi Star
#20 - Dinafem Seeds Critical Cheese
#23 - Samsara Seeds Green Love Potion
#24 - Seedism Seeds Cheese

The only strain I am bumming over not getting is #15 - Seedism Seeds AppleJack (Jack Herer x White Widow). She just never sprouted.

All in all things are looking great. When I entered the room this morning it stunk. Could not believe it. Went from no odor to straight up dank.
I'm not fully prepared on the odor control yet but I have new fans and filters coming and will be moving back into the tent and hopefully this time I can control temps. But I'll save all of that for another post.

Edit: There are Eighteen 3" pots, not Sixteen as I named the Pics.

Per Mr.Head's advice, I also got rid of the #1's - Barneys Farm Seeds Tangerine Dream
I had one in a 3" and one in a 4" and the 3" example was sub-par. Just looked off in general. Had the 3" example looked good I would have included both of them but that coupled with Mr. Head's comment on this strain being poop led me to just get them out of here.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 17, 2014)

My three main goals for tomorrow are:

1) Start hooking up the fans and filters for controlling odor inside of this room.

2) Come up with a clever solution for elevating plants that are short in order to achieve a uniform canopy.

3) Organize and clean the room...it's a pig sty.


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## green217 (Sep 17, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> My three main goals for tomorrow are:
> 
> 1) Start hooking up the fans and filters for controlling odor inside of this room.
> 
> ...


Nice thread thinking of going to sog on my next grow, Good Luck. Interested to see how things turn out.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 17, 2014)

green217 said:


> Nice thread thinking of going to sog on my next grow, Good Luck. Interested to see how things turn out.


Thanks green...that makes two of us!


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 18, 2014)

Hi, Hot! This is really a very detailed and informative Grow diary! I'm looking forward to see how everything goes! Without knowing jack, I put my money on headband! (It's really a ind of lottery since there are a lot of variation within most strains) But this will give you a very good indication of which strains that will fit your system and style. With the amount of seeds you're starting with, you should end up with a few very strong genotypes!

Plants are looking really good! Maybe the advice to not change a winning concept isn't so bad after all.  Though, nothing horrible will happen if you up a tad to much, you just have to feed them less the next time, if you see signs of overfeeding. If you keep an eye on the ppm in the runoff, and it's lower or the same as you feed them, everything is cool! But I think you lower the runoff a bit for those reading to be more accurate... I see how your reasoning about the flushing, and it might also have been I who called wolf on coco... But can't help to think that it's a waste to raise nutes and at the same time flushing 50% away... maybe stepping back a bit on the flushing next feeding, and up on the following feeding if they take it well? Unless you really know that the coco was very salty? Do you have any compressed coco left? If you have, take a handful and soak it for a while, then squeeze the water out and measure the ppm.

If the plants were mine they would normally have been getting an EC of 0,9-1,1 at this stage. Will try higher than that, but with less nitrogen next time.. To make things even more confusing, I must tell you that I just read that some companies transform 1 EC to 500PPM and others to 700PPM. what brand is your PPM-meter?

I know that I'm not very precise in my advice's, but it's not that dramatical, with a runoff of 20% it's not so easy to severally overfeed your plants, since the salt don't accumulate. Jus up it slowly and step back if you have to. They won't ever get a real nute-burn if you up it gradually.. Feeling more confident by my answer? (I apologize if the english is bad, I'm getting really sleepy in my time-zone)


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 18, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> Hi, Hot! This is really a very detailed and informative Grow diary! I'm looking forward to see how everything goes! Without knowing jack, I put my money on headband! (It's really a ind of lottery since there are a lot of variation within most strains) But this will give you a very good indication of which strains that will fit your system and style. With the amount of seeds you're starting with, you should end up with a few very strong genotypes!
> 
> Plants are looking really good! Maybe the advice to not change a winning concept isn't so bad after all.  Though, nothing horrible will happen if you up a tad to much, you just have to feed them less the next time, if you see signs of overfeeding. If you keep an eye on the ppm in the runoff, and it's lower or the same as you feed them, everything is cool! But I think you lower the runoff a bit for those reading to be more accurate... I see how your reasoning about the flushing, and it might also have been I who called wolf on coco... But can't help to think that it's a waste to raise nutes and at the same time flushing 50% away... maybe stepping back a bit on the flushing next feeding, and up on the following feeding if they take it well? Unless you really know that the coco was very salty? Do you have any compressed coco left? If you have, take a handful and soak it for a while, then squeeze the water out and measure the ppm.
> 
> ...


Thanks man, this helps. Great idea on testing the coco. I have a full brick unopened still so I will take a little and soak it and measure. This will tell me where the coco starts which will be helpful. I did pre-rinse the coco that is being used over a 3 day period tho.

I'm going to increase nutes tonight and water much less. Yesterdays watering consisted of 5 gallons of water and about 4 gallons of run off...LOL
So maybe I'll only mix 2 gallons today instead of 5 

Here is the PPM Pen I have:
http://www.amazon.com/HM-Digital-TDS-EZ-Measurement-Resolution/dp/B002C0A7ZY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1411078668&sr=8-1&keywords=TDS+PPM+pen
Only does PPM, not EC


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## Mr.Head (Sep 18, 2014)

All pens measure in EC. and convert to PPM. using one of the two conversion rates, either .5 or .7. Look up the TDS thread on here. SO much information just on the meters


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 18, 2014)

Mr.Head said:


> All pens measure in EC. and convert to PPM. using one of the two conversion rates, either .5 or .7. Look up the TDS thread on here. SO much information just on the meters


This is info that I got:

I believe you are trying to convert from the Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) concentration (units of ppm = parts per million) to the electrical conductivity of the fluid in units of millisiemens/centimeter (mS/cm). The conversion from concentration to electrical conductivity depends on the type of salt used in the solution with which the meter is calibrated. These meters measure electrical current passed between 2 electrodes and assume that the ions in the solution being tested are similar to the ions in the calibration solution when the conversion is made to ppm. According to the HM Digital meter web site, their meters are calibrated in a NaCl solution. A rough conversion is provided in the calibration instructions at URL: http://www.tdsmeter.com/TDS_Meter_Calibration_Instructions.pdf , where it is stated that "This measure of conductivity, ìS/cm is then converted to ppm by a factor of approximately 0.5, on a curve ranging from 0.47 to 0.55, depending on the level. The factor is related directly to the level of conductivity. This meter is built and calibrated according to an NaCl standard. Other meters may be calibrated to either a KCl standard (0.51 conversion) or the 442 standard.(0.7 conversion). " Note that this explanation refers to units of microsiemens/cm, (µs/cm) instead of millisiemens/cm (ms/cm). *To convert from ppm to µs/cm multiply ppm by 0.5. To convert from ppm to ms/cm, multiply by 500.* This appears to be close to the conversion factor used by the Hanna brand of meters.

So last feed was slightly over 1.0 EC it appears.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 19, 2014)

OK. an EC of 1,3 including the EC of water is what Canna recommends (normal feeding). This is what i've used, and never even been close to overfeeding. 1,5 is what you aiming at if go for "heavy feeding." I wouldn't raise EC more then 0,1 at the time, especially not when you are pulling back on runoff. Guess this is what you are doing!  Let's hope your ladies takes it like pros!

Here is the calculator i use, but i guess you just as well can follow the recommendations from your brand.

http://www.canna-uk.com/growguide


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 19, 2014)

How are you reasoning when it comes to lighting? Using MH really seem to do the trick with node spacing! Starting there and changing to HPS after stretch is probably very good! But when you are going perpetual this won't be as easy, if you don't have 2 tents/rooms..


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> How are you reasoning when it comes to lighting? Using MH really seem to do the trick with node spacing! Starting there and changing to HPS after stretch is probably very good! But when you are going perpetual this won't be as easy, if you don't have 2 tents/rooms..


That's true but multiple tents and/or a custom built room is what I will be going for. I'm going to rely on everyone's suggestions and my gut as far as when to switch over to HPS.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> How are you reasoning when it comes to lighting? Using MH really seem to do the trick with node spacing! Starting there and changing to HPS after stretch is probably very good! But when you are going perpetual this won't be as easy, if you don't have 2 tents/rooms..


This is a very crude illustration but shows what I'm thinking about for a perpetual setup. Since the experiment is no where near finished I will have to make some assumptions.

*Assumptions*
Total Length of time from Sprout to Harvest: 12 Weeks
Optimum Footprint of a 600 Watt Light: 4' x 4'


*Below is a possible mockup
 
*
Think in terms of Units. The red bordered space would be 4 Feet wide by 12 feet wide so each *Unit* would be considered 4' x 1'
The outer black border represents the Room. Perhaps the walking space is 1 to 2 feet.

In this mockup, (3) 600 watt lights could support the space.
The way I think about perpetual is:
Frequency and Unit size where frequency is the amount of time it takes before new units are brought into and out of the space. Thinking in these terms, I can scale up and scale down and come up with different variations to accommodate the number of lights I want and the amount of space I need.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 19, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> That's true but multiple tents and/or a custom built room is what I will be going for. I'm going to rely on everyone's suggestions and my gut as far as when to switch over to HPS.


Very good! I was under the impression that you only were to use one 600-watter at the time, which would have compromised the representativeness of this pilot-grow. But now, since you are about to follow this MH-HPS-method, your right on point!


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 19, 2014)

I think you could get away with two HID's by starting your seedlings in small cups under T5's and replanting after 2 weeks or so.. is productivity your main concern here? like finding the best yielder and then start optimizing, or is it to have a flexible system that will let you grow many different strains at the sam time? Don't say that there isn't a golden middle way, but might be concern when choosing strains to work with..


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> I think you could get away with two HID's by starting your seedlings in small cups under T5's and replanting after 2 weeks or so.. is productivity your main concern here? like finding the best yielder and then start optimizing, or is it to have a flexible system that will let you grow many different strains at the sam time? Don't say that there isn't a golden middle way, but might be concern when choosing strains to work with..


Ya know, I just don't know yet. The example above is seriously over-simplified.

In a setup like that, the Lights must remain fixed. So the vertical growth pattern needs to be known ahead of time so I know how high to place the lights.
Seedlings and very young veg plants don't need the light intensity that the more mature ones need.

Then there is the concern of electricity usage. 3600 Watts is the most I'm comfortable with without creating any suspicion. That said, having a setup that consumes 30 Amps of power for exactly 12 hours a day and then nothing for the other 12 hours is worrisome. So I'm thinking about 2 perpetuals. Setup #1 is twice as large as setup #2 and they are on alternating light schedules so in this example I'd have 3600 watts for 12 hours and 1800 watts the other 12 hours...seems much less likely to be scrutinized.

Then there is the problem of where are the new ones going to coming from? Clones, Fem Seeds or Regular Seeds.
Clones has a certain appeal to it but that would then require a whole additional set of space, lights, ventilation, etc. Fem Seeds are ideal but where am I going to get them? It will be cost prohibitive to purchase them so I would be forced to make them. Don't know if I'd be able to do that. So we're left with Regular seeds. Easy to make and build a large stock. But now we have 50% of them that will sex somewhere in the 5th to 6th week. This alters the formulas for space and light requirements.

So all in all there is a lot to consider!


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 19, 2014)

Either way you might wanna look at some kind of auto watering system, if you you're gonna have that many plants? The advantage of waiting a bit is off course that you will know your needs better. Like how many plants you are gonna go with. If you are after productivity, clones will give you more bud in the end in the end I do believe, but the difference maybe isn't that big.. And I've always found seeds beeing nicer to work with. Working with big numbers of clones on a tight schedule actually isn't that easy. It's not rocket science, but sure takes some practice to perfect.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> Either way you might wanna look at some kind of auto watering system, if you you're gonna have that many plants? The advantage of waiting a bit is off course that you will know your needs better. Like how many plants you are gonna go with. If you are after productivity, clones will give you more bud in the end in the end I do believe, but the difference maybe isn't that big.. And I've always found seeds beeing nicer to work with. Working with big numbers of clones on a tight schedule actually isn't that easy. It's not rocket science, but sure takes some practice to perfect.


Oh yes! I forgot to mention watering. At some point, manual watering simply cannot be done so this needs to be automated or at least semi-automated...another big topic that I have no solution for at the moment.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 19, 2014)

If going from seeds i think that you should look for a strain that grows very uniform. Skunk nr1 is one strain that's supposed o do that. I think that No mercys seeds grows pretty uniform since they are supposed to be grown on 12/12. Santa maria is in-bread for 8 generations now. You sem to invest much time and energy in this project.. If you have more time and energy maybe making your own female seeds with silver could be an option. I don't think it's that hard, but havn't tried it myself. Selfing a *very* uniform strain or crossing lets say NL5 with another uniform strain should give pretty uniform seeds, with the former being an S1 and the latter being an F1


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> If going from seeds i think that you should look for a strain that grows very uniform. Skunk nr1 is one strain that's supposed o do that. I think that No mercys seeds grows pretty uniform since they are supposed to be grown on 12/12. Santa maria is in-bread for 8 generations now. You sem to invest much time and energy in this project.. If you have more time and energy maybe making your own female seeds with silver could be an option. I don't think it's that hard, but havn't tried it myself. Selfing a *very* uniform strain or crossing lets say NL5 with another uniform strain should give pretty uniform seeds, with the former being an S1 and the latter being an F1


You're 100% correct. Uniformity is key as the lights would be fixed. I've done a little research into creating Fem seeds and you're right, this is the absolute best way to go. Since I have never done it I guess it just feels intimidating.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 19, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Oh yes! I forgot to mention watering. At some point, manual watering simply cannot be done so this needs to be automated or at least semi-automated...another big topic that I have no solution for at the moment.


Right now i'm using blumat's and am very happy with them. But I do believe that drip emitters with a quality-pump would be more reliable. Back in the days I rocked two Son-T agro's with adjust-a-wings, coco-slabs and drip emitters. Eheim makes very good and silent pumps!why would you wanna fixate your lamps by the way? At least in the beginning playing with footprints is one of the best ways to improve things..


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> Right now i'm using blumat's and am very happy with them. But I do believe that drip emitters with a quality-pump would be more reliable. Back in the days I rocked two Son-T agro's with adjust-a-wings, coco-slabs and drip emitters. Eheim makes very good and silent pumps!why would you wanna fixate your lamps by the way? At least in the beginning playing with footprints is one of the best ways to improve things..


I guess I just meant that once the system was up and running that the lights would not need to be raised and lowered. In reality, there is no reason they couldn't be.
So drip emitters...do you think this is the option I should begin studying first?


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 19, 2014)

This is the thread that that made me inspired to try it out, even if it hasn't happened yet.. http://www.420magazine.com/forums/seeds-clones-strains/153838-how-use-colloidal-silver-produce-feminized-seeds.html


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

That looks very promising. I'm going to order some and try it out during this experiment just to learn!
Thanks for the link


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 19, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I guess I just meant that once the system was up and running that the lights would not need to be raised and lowered. In reality, there is no reason they couldn't be.
> So drip emitters...do you think this is the option I should begin studying first?


yes. It's super easy. Timer, pump, pvc-hose, spaghetti-hose and a puncher to make holes is really all you need. (ok reservoir, end fitting, and maybe a few 90 degree fittings for the not so flexible hose could be good to have.. Length of watering and length of spaghetti tubes affects amount of water coming.. So 2-3 pumps might be necessary.. for different amounts and different strength of nutes. Seedlings maybe can be hand-watered? It's not that hard actually, but an investment.

Remember to water-secure everything! I was very happy that i had sealed my floor with pond-plastic once when i miss-programmed my timer and had 100 liters of water flooding my 25 liter runoff tray...


Hot Diggity Sog said:


> That looks very promising. I'm going to order some and try it out during this experiment just to learn!
> Thanks for the link


I know that you already posted a ling on the subject, I havn't read it yet, but know that the thread i posted was informative and made it seem easy.. So now you have more to read!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> yes. It's super easy. Timer, pump, pvc-hose, spaghetti-hose and a puncher to make holes is really all you need. (ok reservoir, end fitting, and maybe a few 90 degree fittings for the not so flexible hose could be good to have.. Length of watering and length of spaghetti tubes affects amount of water coming.. So 2-3 pumps might be necessary.. for different amounts and different strength of nutes. Seedlings maybe can be hand-watered? It's not that hard actually, but an investment.
> 
> Remember to water-secure everything! I was very happy that i had sealed my floor with pond-plastic once when i miss-programmed my timer and had 100 liters of water flooding my 25 liter runoff tray...
> 
> ...


Thanks bro. I'll get to studying up on drip systems. Might even make a prototype in time to use during the experiment...we'll see!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> If going from seeds i think that you should look for a strain that grows very uniform. Skunk nr1 is one strain that's supposed o do that. I think that No mercys seeds grows pretty uniform since they are supposed to be grown on 12/12. Santa maria is in-bread for 8 generations now. You sem to invest much time and energy in this project.. If you have more time and energy maybe making your own female seeds with silver could be an option. I don't think it's that hard, but havn't tried it myself. Selfing a *very* uniform strain or crossing lets say NL5 with another uniform strain should give pretty uniform seeds, with the former being an S1 and the latter being an F1


I have never heard of No Mercy seeds but I found them. I wish Attitude carried their gear. This looks really interesting.


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## Mr.Head (Sep 19, 2014)

I've got both a pump fed and a gravity fed drip system, but don't use either  It's a great option if you're growing all 1 strain and it's dialed in so you water the same amount to all plants, but wiht different plants uptaking different amounts it's hard to get it right without multiple res's and pumps.

I used the gravity system once and it worked awesome, but you need the height for the res. to get the pressure to work properly, if you can't get the res. 5ft off the ground at least it's not really an option. It works just as well as a pump fed system if you can get the elevation.

It's definitely an awesome way to go about things though, saves a LOT of time and knee strain. And is safer for the plants, I've snapped a few branches watering before. You can run shut offs on every line and monitor it while it waters and manually shut off the ones that are saturated, I've been debating this option for a while 

I'm saving my systems till I find a clone I want to run a bunch of at once I think. With the number of plants you're running I'd definitely look into it. Really not that expensive either. Think I got all my hoses and fittings for $30-40. My res's were free. I think I spent more time/money on the fittings for the gravity fed system then I did on the entire pump fed.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 19, 2014)

The 12/12 from seed grow (in dutch i think) i posted several pages ago was grown with No mercy seeds, no mercy special. I do believe that most strains flower pretty well with this system, but he must have thought of uniformity when making seeds especially for this system. Good luck, have to continue with my day.. It's easy to loose track of time here..


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

Mr.Head said:


> I've got both a pump fed and a gravity fed drip system, but don't use either  It's a great option if you're growing all 1 strain and it's dialed in so you water the same amount to all plants, but wiht different plants uptaking different amounts it's hard to get it right without multiple res's and pumps.
> 
> I used the gravity system once and it worked awesome, but you need the height for the res. to get the pressure to work properly, if you can't get the res. 5ft off the ground at least it's not really an option. It works just as well as a pump fed system if you can get the elevation.
> 
> ...


Awesome Mr. Head, thanks. I have a lot of reading to do now!


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 19, 2014)

Mr.Head said:


> I've got both a pump fed and a gravity fed drip system, but don't use either  It's a great option if you're growing all 1 strain and it's dialed in so you water the same amount to all plants, but wiht different plants uptaking different amounts it's hard to get it right without multiple res's and pumps.
> 
> I used the gravity system once and it worked awesome, but you need the height for the res. to get the pressure to work properly, if you can't get the res. 5ft off the ground at least it's not really an option. It works just as well as a pump fed system if you can get the elevation.
> 
> ...


I think that you can get away with several strains if they are about the same size and keep some runoff, but it's way easier to deal with clones that all are in the same size. I had three strains at the same time with no problem.. 
Blumats tropf actually senses how humid the medium is, and water according to your settings. It's a very good system and you can get away with an elevation of maybe 3-4 feets, especially if you are running multiple lines. But as i said before it's a little trickier than drip-emitters


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

Mr.Head said:


> I've got both a pump fed and a gravity fed drip system, but don't use either  It's a great option if you're growing all 1 strain and it's dialed in so you water the same amount to all plants, but wiht different plants uptaking different amounts it's hard to get it right without multiple res's and pumps.
> 
> I used the gravity system once and it worked awesome, but you need the height for the res. to get the pressure to work properly, if you can't get the res. 5ft off the ground at least it's not really an option. It works just as well as a pump fed system if you can get the elevation.
> 
> ...


Lets say a drip system had 1000 plants it had to supply. I would think getting even water pressure to all of the nodes would be damn near impossible. Is this simply not the case and they work great and can scale up evenly?


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## Mr.Head (Sep 19, 2014)

http://www.irrigationdirect.ca/Tutorials-and-Avice.html

Probably every question you need an answer too is there I would think. I haven't ordered anything from there, just used their site for the information.

You will lose pressure the further you get down the line, but if you have adequate PSi you will be fine.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

*Day 24 Update
*
Plants look great. Growth rate is really accelerating. Vertical growth is very noticeable. I'm getting a lot of variance in node spacing which I suppose is to be expected with this many strains. Total height of the plants is actually fairly consistent. Average height is now at 5 inches. Watering is becoming a little more challenging due to the density. Crowding, especially in the 3" pots, is becoming an issue. I don't think I need to worry about any defoliation yet but probably soon. Tonight I fed @80% strength of the Week 3 Veg schedule which is about 30% stronger than last feed. The handful of plants that were transplanted from 4" pots to 3" pots are showing no sign of transplant shock. I added a slightly more amount of PH Down tonight...1.25 ml/g. PH looked to be right around 5.8. PPM came in at 707. Discounting my 170 PPM tap water, this is 537 PPM of nutes. This could be a little hot so I'm prepared to do a minor flush if they show any signs. I figure you won't where the line is until you cross it, right? Watered much less aggressively tonight. Probably got 20% - 30% run-off.


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## akhiymjames (Sep 19, 2014)

Looking good bro. I can tell your watching your plants and giving them what they need. Just wait they haven't really took off yet. You should see an explosion of growth in the next week or so. Keep it up bro and you will have buds in no time. You got any pistils showing yet?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> Looking good bro. I can tell your watching your plants and giving them what they need. Just wait they haven't really took off yet. You should see an explosion of growth in the next week or so. Keep it up bro and you will have buds in no time. You got any pistils showing yet?


I've been looking but none yet! I was just comparing tonight pictures to pics from 4 days ago and WOW. They are really taking off.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> Looking good bro. I can tell your watching your plants and giving them what they need. Just wait they haven't really took off yet. You should see an explosion of growth in the next week or so. Keep it up bro and you will have buds in no time. You got any pistils showing yet?


If *this* is not taking off yet then oh boy...


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

James:
Do you have any personal experience with defoliating? After going through your posts you don't really have the problem I'm about to have but wanted to ask.

I was watching a Defoliation thread the other day and people get really fired up and upset over this topic so I don't really want to go in there again. lol


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## akhiymjames (Sep 19, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> If *this* is not taking off yet then oh boy...


Oh yea you just really getting past the seedling stage. Just wait till next week


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## akhiymjames (Sep 19, 2014)

You see how you got the leaves standing up, that's the way you want to try to have them at all times. That's a major sign of a happy plant. They will drf take off more. Peace


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## akhiymjames (Sep 19, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> James:
> Do you have any personal experience with defoliating? After going through your posts you don't really have the problem I'm about to have but wanted to ask.
> 
> I was watching a Defoliation thread the other day and people get really fired up and upset over this topic so I don't really want to go in there again. lol


Man bro stay outta those defol threads. You will get your head chopped off in one of those. They go crazy in those round here and in the canna world period. That is the most debated topic of the canna world and one that I don't get into too much.

My belief tho is you have to grow green leaves in order to get buds right? Yes so that lets you know you need leaves for the plant to be successful in growing buds but I think if you take some leaves that are dying off and some leaves to give the plant some air flow cus we're trying to mimic outside then it's ok but I don't believe in stripping the plant real heavily. It can stunt growth tremendously and if done too much in flower can severely hurt yield and give you airy buds but some people have proof or what they think is proof that shows it increases yields so I guess it's debatable.

As you can see on my plant I still have a lot on it. Most people would have stripped all of the bottom off below the first net. I took a few dead leaves off and some big fans out the middle just a lil at the bottom to give her air cus I don't have much air like I should but most her leaves are on her. So it's up to you bro


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> Man bro stay outta those defol threads. You will get your head chopped off in one of those. They go crazy in those round here and in the canna world period. That is the most debated topic of the canna world and one that I don't get into too much.
> 
> My belief tho is you have to grow green leaves in order to get buds right? Yes so that lets you know you need leaves for the plant to be successful in growing buds but I think if you take some leaves that are dying off and some leaves to give the plant some air flow cus we're trying to mimic outside then it's ok but I don't believe in stripping the plant real heavily. It can stunt growth tremendously and if done too much in flower can severely hurt yield and give you airy buds but some people have proof or what they think is proof that shows it increases yields so I guess it's debatable.
> 
> As you can see on my plant I still have a lot on it. Most people would have stripped all of the bottom off below the first net. I took a few dead leaves off and some big fans out the middle just a lil at the bottom to give her air cus I don't have much air like I should but most her leaves are on her. So it's up to you bro


Yeah...only way to find out I guess is to defoliate in a controlled fashion. Some minor some major. Let's face it...with 3" and 4" pots, I'm gunna have to do some leaf management.


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## DarthBlazeAnthony (Sep 19, 2014)

I approve of this thread.


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## urban1026835 (Sep 19, 2014)

looks like you have some good people following along, no need to add my 2 cents besides to say, well done so far!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

urban1026835 said:


> looks like you have some good people following along, no need to add my 2 cents besides to say, well done so far!


Thank you kind sir...I appreciate it!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

Spent most of the evening with the ladies looking for signs of over-feeding. Saw a few really minor signs...a few tiny brown tips and a few leafs curling up a little. Lights just went out on me so I'm finished for tonight but I'll check again first thing in the morning and if I have to do a little flush then I will. Thinking tonight's feed was just a tad too strong.


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## akhiymjames (Sep 19, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Spent most of the evening with the ladies looking for signs of over-feeding. Saw a few really minor signs...a few tiny brown tips and a few leafs curling up a little. Lights just went out on me so I'm finished for tonight but I'll check again first thing in the morning and if I have to do a little flush then I will. Thinking tonight's feed was just a tad too strong.


Sounds like it's was just a lil but that's ok. Long as you don't see anything drastic the. You should be fine. That lets you now your just past their limit but it's gonna be hard trying to dial in several different strains try keep a nice even balance for all


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 19, 2014)

James: Are you going to be around in say...12 hours? lol
Just in case I need to take any drastic flush actions I'd like to check in with you first!


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## akhiymjames (Sep 19, 2014)

You should be be fine bro but just post something I'm subbed I'll see


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 20, 2014)

Like I've said I'm just in the final stage of my 12/12 from seed sog. I had 17 3" pots in rows of 3:4:3:4:3, and can tell you that i will try to give them more space next time. The pot size wasn't a problem a small pot of coco can support a big plant if you just water frequently. But they shaded each other which probably made them stretch more. It's hard to compare grow-rooms though, my chinese leds really gave me what i paid for.. Stronger lights can "handle" crowding in a better way. Anyways, a few of the plants really took of, And i started to defoliate then quite hard in order to stunt there growth. It kind of worked but i'm pretty sure it also delayed/prolonged flowering period.. It's now 3,5 months since start and i only have a few bigger defoliated plants left.. I know that I'm not really giving any advice, but like to share my experiences so that you can draw your own conclusion, and do your own reasoning.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 20, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> Like I've said I'm just in the final stage of my 12/12 from seed sog. I had 17 3" pots in rows of 3:4:3:4:3, and can tell you that i will try to give them more space next time. The pot size wasn't a problem a small pot of coco can support a big plant if you just water frequently. But they shaded each other which probably made them stretch more. It's hard to compare grow-rooms though, my chinese leds really gave me what i paid for.. Stronger lights can "handle" crowding in a better way. Anyways, a few of the plants really took of, And i started to defoliate then quite hard in order to stunt there growth. It kind of worked but i'm pretty sure it also delayed/prolonged flowering period.. It's now 3,5 months since start and i only have a few bigger defoliated plants left.. I know that I'm not really giving any advice, but like to share my experiences so that you can draw your own conclusion, and do your own reasoning.


Do you have any pictures you can share?


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 20, 2014)

I have them these new lights 48h agi and they seem to like it! 

Before they were having these lights:


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 20, 2014)

Nice!! What size pots are those...did you say 3"?


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 20, 2014)

I know they do look a bit tormented, maybe they are a bit shocked by the strong light, but it's also the end of flowering and they are getting flushed right now.. Don't think the new lights will do much for weight, but probably give me some more trichs. As you can see, despite the heavy defoliating. they do have a lot of leafs. More then they would have had otherwise.. At least the leafs gave me pretty potent canna-butter.. This is how the plants developed during the firs three moths or so:


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 20, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Nice!! What size pots are those...did you say 3"?


Sorry never seem to get my head around the imperial system.. They are 11x11 cm, so about 4" This is my first grow in a long time. First grow with 12/12 from seed, and first Led grow.. So I'm also in a learning fase here!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 20, 2014)

If mine get that large I'm going to have a huge problem to face. I don't see any way in hell I can fit 16 per sq/ft...lol


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 20, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> If mine get that large I'm going to have a huge problem to face. I don't see any way in hell I can fit 16 per sq/ft...lol


No that is impossible! You have to start with sexually mature clones of indica heritage to do that. And even then 9 would be considered a very high density.

Give them much light and, snip lower side branching that's getting wider then rest of the plants. And instead of snipping to many leafs, I would also recomend to remove plants that are getting to big or falling behind. You can always make canna butter from leafs and early bud material.. 

This isn't a problem! slightly bigger plants are more convenient! Less seeds, less watering, less hassle, but more bud. Plants that small would only give you a few grams.. The smallest plants in my grow only gave me 5-10 grams, while the bigger remaining ones hopefully will give me up to an ounce or so.. we will see.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 20, 2014)

It's going to be interesting to see. Obviously bigger plants will yield more. What I'm trying to discover is what is the optimum pot size and space between plants. Large plants waste a lot of space. Scrog makes great use of space but takes a long time.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 20, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> View attachment 3257822 View attachment 3257823 I have them these new lights 48h agi and they seem to like it!
> 
> Before they were having these lights:


Any chance you can take another picture with something like a bottle of water or can of soda in the picture so I have a frame of reference?


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 20, 2014)

I'm not with them now. But the height is about 80 cm or so, diameter of two biggest cola about 10 cm without leafs.. You do wanna have some space between these colas to let light and air in between...


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 20, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> I'm not with them now. But the height is about 80 cm or so, diameter of two biggest cola about 10 cm without leafs.. You do wanna have some space between these colas to let light and air in between...


Thanks...for those of use not using the Metric system (which is superior of course), you're talking 32 inches tall and 4" wide. Damn...those are big colas!


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 20, 2014)

Thank's for the compliment!  Most part of the plants isn't colas... but with better lamps I hope to get those "one huge cola-plants.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 20, 2014)

When I started i had bubblegummer, BBxWW BBxGrapefruit, NL, Master kush and AK-48, Its the two latter ones that are the biggest. The smaller in the front, and the bushy in the back are Bubblegummers. Forgot to mention that temps have been very high during most part of the grow, and also humidity.. Thank's to global warming? we've had the tropical weather and the highest temps in the last century this summer. Around 85 F most of the time. Temps and humidity affects a lot. So not sure how plants will react to lower RH Temps and more light.. But I'm hoping for more, but not to, compact plants.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 20, 2014)

*Minor update:
*
At least 2 of the plants have pistols. I did a PH'd water flush today and will begin the new Nutrient regiment tomorrow morning.
Will be feeding @20% strength using the Week 1 Flower schedule.

Based on my experience with the Blue Planet Nutrient line, it seems if I follow the schedule by age @20% - 25% strength I'm good. Any more and I experience burn.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 20, 2014)

*Another Minor Update:
*
The girls seemed to really enjoy the flush from earlier. Just PH'd water, nothing in it. I ran 5 gallons through and got about 4 1/2 gallons of run-off.
I won't be able to feed in the morning so I mixed 20% of Flower Week #1 and did a very light feed now...about 1/2 a gallon with approximately 25% run-off.

Many more plants have pistols but I think it's less than 50% so I'll probably call tomorrow day #1 for flowering. Nearly all pots have substantial roots at the bottom already.
Worked on elevating the shorter plants to bring the canopy to a more even level.
Removed the Titan tray and they are now in 2 milk crate style containers sitting directly on the shelf which drains into the tubs. Drainage will work more effectively and the new arrangement makes better use of the light.

All in all they are looking really good. Smell really good...strong. Getting colder here. Temps during lights on is between 70 and 73 and drops to 68 at night. RH stable in the low 40's.
Next update with pictures will be tomorrow night...the official day #1 of flowering.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 21, 2014)

*Day 26 Update - Day 1 Flower
*
Things are looking great. It's really interesting to observe the different strains and their tendencies. Many of them are getting pretty stretchy despite using a 600 watt MH bulb and keeping it really close. I'm keeping the reflector about 12" - 15" away and the bulb itself is another 3 or so inches above the bottom of the reflector. Keeping it this close gives me about a 2' x 2' footprint of intense light. I find myself pondering how this could actually provide intense light to a 4' x 4' area.

I'm going to continue with my current schedule of watering every other day. Feed with every watering. Flush periodically as needed.
I only have 1 question today: Notice the moisture on the leaf in the last image...just some perspiration perhaps?


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## akhiymjames (Sep 21, 2014)

Looking good bro. Glad everything is going well. 

Looks like your humidity might be raising since your in flower now. What's you humidity like? You may have to add a fan for some air flow


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## DirtyNerd (Sep 21, 2014)

Beautiful nice and healthy

Yeah the MH keep them tight i am trying one this grow and the nodes are tight makes the plant a little too bushy now  

can't wait too see the girls in flower now its going to be great


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 21, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> Looking good bro. Glad everything is going well.
> 
> Looks like your humidity might be raising since your in flower now. What's you humidity like? You may have to add a fan for some air flow


lol, you nailed it again James! RH jumped into the 50's today. Until today, it has been stable and has not changed a bit.
I have an Oscillating fan on them 24 hours a day. I keep it on Medium when lights are on and low when lights are off.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 21, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> Beautiful nice and healthy
> 
> Yeah the MH keep them tight i am trying one this grow and the nodes are tight makes the plant a little too bushy now
> 
> can't wait too see the girls in flower now its going to be great


Thank you, thank you!! I can't wait either


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## akhiymjames (Sep 21, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> lol, you nailed it again James! RH jumped into the 50's today. Until today, it has been stable and has not changed a bit.
> I have an Oscillating fan on them 24 hours a day. I keep it on Medium when lights are on and low when lights are off.


Yea I figured that. May have to keep that can on medium to keep it down some but 50% humidity isn't bad just don't want to be in the 70s and up


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 21, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> Yea I figured that. May have to keep that can on medium to keep it down some but 50% humidity isn't bad just don't want to be in the 70s and up


OK thanks. Frankly I'm shocked that it has even gotten this high. I do have another dehumidifier on standby if needed.
With Fall approaching, I was expecting RH to actually drop...not go up even with these ladies!


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## DirtyNerd (Sep 21, 2014)

I cant get my room humidity over 50% when lights are on its 30% and lights off its 50% very odd.... 

i want to bring it up a little in veg as the plants are meant to like it more... might need a humidifier


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 21, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> I cant get my room humidity over 50% when lights are on its 30% and lights off its 50% very odd....
> 
> i want to bring it up a little in veg as the plants are meant to like it more... might need a humidifier


Up until today that is exactly how it has been for me. RH got as low as 20's when they were seedlings. I actually had to turn my primary dehumidifier off - manages the entire basement.


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## DirtyNerd (Sep 21, 2014)

That's odd just keep that air moving and fresh in old out is all you can do  weed is a great plant can almost handle anything you throw at it  long as it's not a brick


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 23, 2014)

*Day 28 Update - Day 3 Flower*

Many of the plants are stretching like crazy despite the Metal Halide bulb still being used.
   

I think the 3" pots are going to need to be watered every day starting tomorrow. Some of them are not looking as robust as they were a few days ago.
Think I'm nearing the time where I have to start making some decisions on pruning some of the under growth. If you have any suggestions please offer them!


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## DirtyNerd (Sep 23, 2014)

Awesome yeah the metal halide should stop them from stretching as much as a HPS would but make sure you get that HPS on them after the 2 weeks of stretch 

Also yeah only thing with the smaller pots and putting them in flower they are going to be hungry hungry hippos


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 24, 2014)

*Day 29 Update - Day 4 Flower*

Plants look much better after this mornings watering. I feel they really want to be watered daily now. Increased nutes from 20% strength to 25% strength on Week 1 Flower schedule.
Will continue watering daily with nutes. I'm over-watering to get a lot of run-off...they just seem to like that best in these small pots. Seems like I'm mini-flushing on each watering. Now I understand when others have said you really can't over-water coco...lol
Stretch continues but some of the shorter ones are finally stretching too. Maybe the 1st ones to stretch just entered the flowering stage earlier than others. Starting to get some actual hairs going. In the coming days I'll get close ups but it's nothing impressive yet.


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## green217 (Sep 24, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Day 29 Update - Day 4 Flower*
> 
> Plants look much better after this mornings watering. I feel they really want to be watered daily now. Increased nutes from 20% strength to 25% strength on Week 1 Flower schedule.
> Will continue watering daily with nutes. I'm over-watering to get a lot of run-off...they just seem to like that best in these small pots. Seems like I'm mini-flushing on each watering. Now I understand when others have said you really can't over-water coco...lol
> ...


Looking good man. Trying to reveg my ladies now, then clone enough to fill my 5x6 (sog) under 1000watts of HPS. I got some lemony, diesel smelling OG cross that I ended up keeping. I have three of them I'm trying to reveg.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 24, 2014)

green217 said:


> Looking good man. Trying to reveg my ladies now, then clone enough to fill my 5x6 (sog) under 1000watts of HPS. I got some lemony, diesel smelling OG cross that I ended up keeping. I have three of them I'm trying to reveg.


Sweet...good luck!


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## DirtyNerd (Sep 24, 2014)

They are loving life mate your doing a great job all praying to the light god


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 24, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> They are loving life mate your doing a great job all praying to the light god


Thanks man! I'm just trying to do what the girls are asking for!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 25, 2014)

green217 said:


> Looking good man. Trying to reveg my ladies now, then clone enough to fill my 5x6 (sog) under 1000watts of HPS. I got some lemony, diesel smelling OG cross that I ended up keeping. I have three of them I'm trying to reveg.


Are you going to start a journal?


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## akhiymjames (Sep 25, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Day 29 Update - Day 4 Flower*
> 
> Plants look much better after this mornings watering. I feel they really want to be watered daily now. Increased nutes from 20% strength to 25% strength on Week 1 Flower schedule.
> Will continue watering daily with nutes. I'm over-watering to get a lot of run-off...they just seem to like that best in these small pots. Seems like I'm mini-flushing on each watering. Now I understand when others have said you really can't over-water coco...lol
> ...


Yea they set will want water more as they have kicked into flowering so they will drink more. Just keep doing what your doing keep those girls green and you will be rewarded


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## ASMALLVOICE (Sep 25, 2014)

Outstanding Grow M8.

Some Sweet Looking Ladies for Sure!!

Thanx for the update.

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice


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## green217 (Sep 25, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Are you going to start a journal?


Yeah, not quite as detailed as yours though.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 25, 2014)

*Day 30 Update - Day 5 Flower
*
This morning marked the 1st day of watering every day and they really liked it. Actually think the 3" pots are going to need 2 waterings a day soon. Upped the nutes to 30% strength with no problem. Pretty brief update today but I do have a few pictures that I would love feedback on regarding defoliating. The folks on the defoliation thread, although funny, were less than helpful.

Knowing that I am looking for a single cola with no side branches:


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 26, 2014)

I spent all last night reading and thinking about defoliation and I've decided for this experiment I will not defoliate at all. I'll just continue to document the experiment and use this experience to guide me in the future.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 26, 2014)

This


DirtyNerd said:


> I cant get my room humidity over 50% when lights are on its 30% and lights off its 50% very odd....
> 
> i want to bring it up a little in veg as the plants are meant to like it more... might need a humidifier


This is absolutely normal. It's called relative humidity (RH) because the amount of water the air can hold is relative to the temperature.. If temps drop RH will get higher.. If the difference in temp and RH is to big you're plants are seriously suspicious to mold. Adding a heater during the night can be as effective as running a dehumidifier.. Besides plants thrive with little to zero diff in temps..


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 26, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Day 30 Update - Day 5 Flower
> *
> This morning marked the 1st day of watering every day and they really liked it. Actually think the 3" pots are going to need 2 waterings a day soon. Upped the nutes to 30% strength with no problem. Pretty brief update today but I do have a few pictures that I would love feedback on regarding defoliating. The folks on the defoliation thread, although funny, were less than helpful.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't recommend defoliation even if it's possibly good in some cases.. Better to find strains that work well without all that extra work.. I would concider snipping off the lower branches if they start to take of.. If they stay short and don't start to compete with tops I'd leave them as they are. How far away is your light, and how big is the area you are covering? Giving your plants all the light they want is the best you can do to keep plants and lower growth from stretching.. It's very strain dependent though and any sativa genes will cause node distance in early flower.. Hopefully space that will be full with long runs of sticky buds!


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 26, 2014)

If you have trouble with low RH during "ligh on", rather than high RH during lights of, I would recommend you to build a "swamp cooler". Google it. You could also connect fans in the swamp cooler to a hygrostat.. MJ plants can take a lot of abuse but when they are small they really don't grow that well if RH is to low...


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 26, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> I wouldn't recommend defoliation even if it's possibly good in some cases.. Better to find strains that work well without all that extra work.. I would concider snipping off the lower branches if they start to take of.. If they stay short and don't start to compete with tops I'd leave them as they are. How far away is your light, and how big is the area you are covering? Giving your plants all the light they want is the best you can do to keep plants and lower growth from stretching.. It's very strain dependent though and any sativa genes will cause node distance in early flower.. Hopefully space that will be full with long runs of sticky buds!


Some of them are branching but the branches are growing straight up and not out to the side. They are hugging the main stem very closely. I will take some detailed pics during my nightly update tonight. Total footprint for the plants is approx 32" x 16". Keeping the light between 10" and 15". I can get it closer but the intensity of the light is not as good on the outsides of the canopy.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Sep 26, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Some of them are branching but the branches are growing straight up and not out to the side. They are hugging the main stem very closely. I will take some detailed pics during my nightly update tonight. Total footprint for the plants is approx 32" x 16". Keeping the light between 10" and 15". I can get it closer but the intensity of the light is not as good on the outsides of the canopy.


That's not so far away, if anything it's probably the lights that are in the edges that could use a bit more light.. I found the "adjust-a-wings" doing a very good job at spreading the light evenly over 100-110x120 cm. sorry for metric measure. To tired to re-calculate.. A bit expensive though...


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 26, 2014)

Fiveleafsleft said:


> That's not so far away, if anything it's probably the lights that are in the edges that could use a bit more light.. I found the "adjust-a-wings" doing a very good job at spreading the light evenly over 100-110x120 cm. sorry for metric measure. To tired to re-calculate.. A bit expensive though...


I'm running the Blockbuster which was supposed to optimize for a 4'x4' but that's doubtful. I'm probably overthinking this as I'm trying to pimp out basically a 2 1/2' x 1 1/2' area with a 600 which I probably am doing.


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## DirtyNerd (Sep 26, 2014)

If your going to cut all lower leaves make some clones of the stronger plants if can you save time on the next grow all the best bro your doing a great job


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 26, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> If your going to cut all lower leaves make some clones of the stronger plants if can you save time on the next grow all the best bro your doing a great job


I'm just going to let them grow naturally and study them. I don't feel educated enough to predict how they are going to grow from here on out so I have no business trying something as drastic as defoliating until I know what to expect letting them go naturally.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 26, 2014)

*Day 31 Update - Day 6 Flower*

Today I'm starting to see an explosion from the plants that had not yet started to stretch. I guess they were just a few days behind. Increased this morning's nutes to 35% with a full aggressive watering. They seem to be enjoying the daily watering although this morning they looked almost a little over-watered and did not perk up nice and tall until about 8 hours after I watered so I might try watering twice every 3 days or maybe alternate between heavy watering and light watering. On to the pics!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 26, 2014)

There are no discernible differences so far between plants in the 3" pots vs plants in the 4" pots. The height variations and lower branching (or lack thereof) are spread pretty evenly between the 2 pot sizes. Tallest plant is 17" and the average is 12".


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## DirtyNerd (Sep 26, 2014)

Woot good girls showing there sex  looking great bro


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 27, 2014)

*Day 32 Update - Day 7 Flower*

Today is the 1st day that I started less than once per day watering/feeding. Instead of watering right when lights came on I waited to water until 1 hour before lights off. I'm experimenting with letting the coco have a chance to dry out a little more. Early in the grow, I was unable to do this...presumably because the moisture that was present became too *hot* with the nutrients that were still present. This evening, to my surprise, the girls looked as if I had just fed them. Leaves were very perky. This gives me a few clues:
1) They perhaps were a little unhappy with being watered as often as they were
2) They are now capable of stronger nutes.

I began them on the Week 1 flowering feeding schedule one week ago and I started weak...20% strength. I increased the percentage with each feeding in increments of 5%.
Tonight I deviated from this and bumped the feed all the way up to 50%. Aside from the 2 clues listed above, the PPM's of the last feed was only in the low 400's if you exclude my tap water. At 50% strength, PPM was 725 including my water and 555 excluding it. Seems reasonable and possibly still on the weak side...we'll see.

Tonight I decided to pull some individual plants out to showcase some of the variations in growth patterns. Up until now, I've only been showing the stretchy ones so let's take a look at some others too now.

So far, the strains that are furthest along in flowering are Skunk #1, Northern Lights and Bubble Bomb.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 29, 2014)

*Day 34 Update - Day 9 Flower*

Girls are doing well. I'm pretty shocked at how tall they are getting. Taller than I want and certainly taller than I expected. If using the MH bulb has actually reduced the stretch then I cannot even imagine how tall they would be if I had started with the HPS. 50% strength suggested nute strength seems to be about right. I few plants have a tiny amount of burn on 1 or 2 tips so I feel like I'm probably right around the max. Managing the variance in height is a big challenge. I've run out of all of my extra pots that I've been using as risers so I have to come up with something new. Tallest plants are in the 23" to 25" range and most are in the 18" to 22" range. A few runts here and there.

Tomorrow we move into the tent. I've got all of my new ventilation gear and its time.

Enough jibber jabber...onto some pics!

This first picture is my new 720 CFM fan and 750 CFM Phresh filter. This has been serving as the primary means of odor control so far in the 17' x 13' room I built. It has a passive 6" intake but is otherwise *reasonably* air tight. Once the girls move into the tent, this will become my secondary odor control as the tent will have it's own.
        

This last shot shows the density of the underside. Not nearly as bad as I would have expected considering the size of the pots.
Still on the fence about defoliating. Now I'm leaning towards chopping all the lower stuff off on 50% of the group and compare the results. I just don't see anyway at all that this lower stuff is going to generate anything other than weak fluff that I simply am not interested in. I wish I knew where the top colas would officially begin.


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## DirtyNerd (Sep 29, 2014)

Looking awesome as always bro nice new CFM setup


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 29, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> Looking awesome as always bro nice new CFM setup


Thanks  Sure hope the odor control is going to be on point. Think I'll switch over to my HPS bulb tomorrow too when I move into the tent.


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## DirtyNerd (Sep 30, 2014)

Yeah that should be fine for oder control i got a smaller CFM setup and you can smell it when in the tent but outside nothing i had to seat in the tent for 6 hours trimming on the last grow was a pain in the ass but was a good reward and that's what it's all about at the end of the day


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## Cloudiology (Sep 30, 2014)

subbed... this is awesome!


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## Cloudiology (Sep 30, 2014)

As a guy who always swings for autoflowering girls, mainly of course due to the short grow time, I have desperately wanted to try photo plants on a 12/12 from seed schedule. i will be paying much attention and taking notes!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 30, 2014)

Cloudiology said:


> As a guy who always swings for autoflowering girls, mainly of course due to the short grow time, I have desperately wanted to try photo plants on a 12/12 from seed schedule. i will be paying much attention and taking notes!


Glad to have you along for the ride! Feel free to post suggestions or ideas too. I usually ask questions on the updates to get feedback.


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## texasjack (Sep 30, 2014)

Cool grow.


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## n!n.budz (Sep 30, 2014)

hi can you tell me if im on the right track to rooted clones under 12/12 straight away .. i topped one and left the smaller girl alone .. im goin hps soon 250watt hopefull isit lookin ok tho ??


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 30, 2014)

n!n.budz said:


> hi can you tell me if im on the right track to rooted clones under 12/12 straight away .. i topped one and left the smaller girl alone .. im goin hps soon 250watt hopefull isit lookin ok tho ??View attachment 3264568 View attachment 3264569 View attachment 3264570 View attachment 3264574


I'm no expert but those looks pretty good to me so far. The colors you're getting on the hairs is amazing!


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## n!n.budz (Sep 30, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I'm no expert but those looks pretty good to me so far. The colors you're getting on the hairs is amazing!


this is my first grow and i have really no idea what im at does the bigger one look stretchy there about 4weeks into flower and yeah the pistols are nearly red.. proper red .. but it nowhere near harvest yet ..and thanks they smell pritty damn good too


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 30, 2014)

*Minor Update
*
I started the process of moving things into the tent this morning. Due to time restrictions I'm going to have to do this over a several day period.
Will be switching over to the HPS bulb very soon too.


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## ASMALLVOICE (Sep 30, 2014)

Looking Excellent M8. 

Love the evenness of the canopy. I am having to train a bit to maintain my canopy. Kinda like trying to contain an explosion in a paper bag, but I am trying...lol

Many Thanx for the update. 

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 30, 2014)

ASMALLVOICE said:


> Looking Excellent M8.
> 
> Love the evenness of the canopy. I am having to train a bit to maintain my canopy. Kinda like trying to contain an explosion in a paper bag, but I am trying...lol
> 
> ...


Thanks man...it's not as even as I want but it's hard! I can make it even and then 10 hours later it's all out of whack again.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 30, 2014)

Some of them have as many as 10 pots they are sitting in to bring them up to level. Also, in the white milk crate, see the foam board pieces that act as steps? That worked for about 2 days until the stretch started...lol. I'll come up with something.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 30, 2014)

*Day 35 Update - Day 10 Flower*

So today was the big day to move the girls into the 4'x4' tent. I have not hooked up ventilation or the filter yet but will soon. I also decided to switch out the MH bulb for the HPS. My theory on stretch reduction with the MH did not seem to pan out for me so might as well switch now. I did some minor defoliating on a few plants....removed the lower 1/3rd leaves and shoots...nothing to major or drastic. I intend to thoroughly document the defoliation techniques I attempt so we'll see!


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## Pepe le skunk (Oct 2, 2014)

Hello Hot,
You asked for a review of things that can change and the first is replant into larger containers for the growth that will happen in flower.
Most important to have a big root potential. As for the pruning the plants at this height should not stretch much more an will be heavy into bud production the next few weeks. Don't believe you need to cut anything off except a few very bottom branches that would rob the main colas of there food and weight. Actualy looking good from what I see.
Just repot them so they can have more root room.

If you get 3 gallon or 5 gallon grow bags or cloth pots like geopots or airpots you'll get a bigger yield. Especially if you lift the bottoms with something like a milk crate to get air under them and closer to the light. (just use bigger then what you are in now.^) You can add some distance between the tops and the light. Another 6 inches. Will keep them from burning. Actually that table top would be fine and allow you to fit them all on in square grow bags with more soil. You can use bamboo or something to keep them from falling off the table. Like a fence all the way around in case you bump the table.

If organic never mind this section.
If you don't own a TDS meter or PPm meter they help you to see the nutrient levels in your water mix. In the mean time hit them with lots of nutes over the next few weeks of bud. I shot for 900 to 1400 tds in flower. Also use cal mag. Last 4 weeks molasses is good to add to the mix for taste and smell. Always add the molasses to a little water and mix with a spoon before adding to the nut mix.
Will pop back in to see how they are doing.
Hope that helps.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 2, 2014)

Pepe le skunk said:


> Hello Hot,
> You asked for a review of things that can change and the first is replant into larger containers for the growth that will happen in flower.
> Most important to have a big root potential. As for the pruning the plants at this height should not stretch much more an will be heavy into bud production the next few weeks. Don't believe you need to cut anything off except a few very bottom branches that would rob the main colas of there food and weight. Actualy looking good from what I see.
> Just repot them so they can have more root room.
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to reply...appreciate it. I'm afraid I can't repot...a big part of this experiment has to do my container selection.
I've been working on the room and will have another update soon. I had a scare yesterday...power went out for about 90 minutes so my odor control was shut down. Very scary. I've since gotten a 900 Watt UPS to serve as short term battery backup for the filter and fans.

Regarding defoliation...thanks for the tip. I guess I'll just try and use my best judgement.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 5, 2014)

*Day 40 Update - Day 15 Flower*

It's been a few days since I posted an update. Been busy with other stuff. The stretch seems to be about finished and I have to say that I am very disappointed thus far. I'm hoping someone can take a look at the single plant photo below and give me some ideas on why it stretched so much. The plant that I picked out to photograph is a Bomb Seeds Bubble Bomb in a 3" pot and represents the best *average* looking plant as far as node spacing, total height and stage of flowering goes. Some are a little further along and some are behind. Nearly every strain looks like this. Tall...minimal branching (which is good), but with large gaps between nodes. So I have to rule out strains as the cause for the large node gaps. Is it the container shape being very tall but very narrow? Could it be the fact the plants were packed into such a small space...16 per sq/ft for the 3" pots and 9 per sq/ft for the 4" pots? I don't think lack of light intensity could possibly be the reason.

One final question:
In the 3rd picture below, we have the *top* which is about 1.5" tall and then the node below it which is about 1.5" down. Will the top continue to grow length wise or is what I see what I'm going to get? (Obviously it will fatten but I'm talking about height of the top cola). Do you think the node directly under the top will actually grow up to become part of the top cola?

Other than my disappointment in the stretch, things are going great. Very stinky. A few of the tops of the plants are already producing visible trich's which is cool. Plants appear to be very healthy with no noticeable deficiencies. Even the very 1st set of leaves way down at the bottom are still nice and green. Not one leaf has died or fallen off of any plant...none have even yellowed.


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## ASMALLVOICE (Oct 5, 2014)

I hear you about the stretch. I had a couple of tops that I thought would not stop. 

Sweet looking early buddage for sure. 

Many thanx for the update.

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice


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## akhiymjames (Oct 5, 2014)

When growing in small containers the plants get restricted from growing to their potential and some will stretch like that to get to light. IMHO your not getting the best representations of your strains cus they're forced to flower as a small plant and their roots are only given so much space. 

I think what you should've done was grow a few strains in 2-3 gal pots so you could see how they perform as a bigger plant then decide or go through some more strains testing them this way. But looks good tho just gonna be hard to find an ideal plant to grow 12/12 from seed in a small pot


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 5, 2014)

I see your point and you're right.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 5, 2014)

I'm already planning for the 2nd chapter in this experiment so stay tuned guys


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## ULEN (Oct 5, 2014)

Some of my ladies for my 12-12 outdoor stayed super short. I would have liked to see some stretch in them similar to yours.


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## Fiveleafsleft (Oct 6, 2014)

Sweet looking plants! (yup, a bit lankie, but that may change!) I'd say that your high plant density is one big reason for the stretch. I do be believe that the stretch will be a bit less pronounced if you get more intra canopy-light. Either by lowering the plant density, or by letting small 5000k household bulbs hang between the plants. It's also possible that the plants sense in other ways that they are in a crowded situation were they need to compete.. (touching, or possibly through other receptors, similar to smelling. This do sound a bit crazy i know...) So right know you have to decide if you like to weed out some weed, or let them live in this crowded condition. My 50 cents are that you will get a better yield by killing a few darlings..


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 6, 2014)

Thanks guys for the input...I really appreciate it.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 6, 2014)

Since I started this experiment, I have continued to purchase seeds. The next step in the evolution of this experiment is to create a large seed stock as buying seeds is certainly cost prohibitive. I spent around $800 just on seeds for this 1st experiment!

I would love your feedback and advice as I have only done a grow for seed one time and it was a single strain inter-breed.

Mosca Seeds Cinderella 99 BX-1
10 Regular Seeds

Bodhi Seeds Blue Tara
11 Regular Seeds

Nirvana Seeds AK 48
10 Regular Seeds

G13 Labs Seeds Pineapple Express
5 Feminized Seeds

Out of this grouping, any suggestions on which strain the male should come from? I'm too inexperienced to attempt to keep more than 1 male from multiple strains so I'm keeping it simple.
I want to use the selected male to interbreed with the best 1 or 2 females and then to also pollinate the best 1 or 2 from the other strains. When I say *best*, all I will be able to go in is appearance, smell and growth pattern. Figure at about 4 weeks into flower is when I'll pollinate.


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## DirtyNerd (Oct 6, 2014)

Holy shit that's a lot of money on seeds 

i just ordered some more myself AK48 as i am hoping to get a male in the pack so i can pollinate some girls so i don't need to buy seeds anymore i enjoy growing from seeds yes it takes more time them cloning but the growth i find is better and you can train them easier

still looking awesome bro  cant wait to see some huge buds of them girls


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 6, 2014)

Thanks DN. I sure hope the tops grow into cola's. In many respects this experiment has already failed but I'm going to see it thru anyway. The next round will attempt to isolate where the problem was: Either pot selection or plant spacing. I suspect that Five is spot on and the cause was plant spacing but I need to confirm. That said, I plan on using fewer plants during the breeding phrase. I will use the 4" pots again but I will introduce the 5" pots this time and not use the 3" pots. The 5" pots have a capacity of just over 5 Liters. As they enter the stretch, I will space them much further apart. This should isolate and reveal the cause of the stretch and node spacing (hopefully).


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## DirtyNerd (Oct 6, 2014)

Bro we all learn from our mistakes but they will still get some nice colas i think limiting the amount to 10 keep 10 in veg 10 in flower and double pot size will still take up same space but be less hard work with the watering 

i don't know but what ever you do should you will make it work maybe topping 1 or 2 times so they are short with more tops  anyway bro keep it green


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 6, 2014)

Ultimately I'm searching for the most efficient way to grow without sacrificing quality.
Grams per Watt per year and grams per kilowatt hour are my two measuring sticks.

I'm sure there are a million opinions on this and that's fine....lol


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 6, 2014)

It may take me a few years. It may take me 10 years. I may never find it. Maybe there is no such thing as a most efficient way.

So my tentative harvest date is going to be November 19. That will mark 60 days from the first pistol. I am going to try and time things so I can start the next round such that they are just about to start the stretch when the 1st round finishes. I estimate October 19.

I've decided I'm going to start a new round on October 19...2 short weeks away.
(3) Mosca Seeds Cinderella 99 BX-1
(3) Bodhi Seeds Blue Tara
(3) Nirvana Seeds AK 48
(3) G13 Labs Seeds Pineapple Express (FEMINIZED)

Out of these, I will choose a single male. It could come from the C99, Blue Tara or AK 48...I won't know until they sex and I pick.
I will use this one male to pollinate the entire group. I will also be taking the opportunity to test the theories mentioned in the previous few threads.

Can't wait!!


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## akhiymjames (Oct 6, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> It may take me a few years. It may take me 10 years. I may never find it. Maybe there is no such thing as a most efficient way.
> 
> So my tentative harvest date is going to be November 19. That will mark 60 days from the first pistol. I am going to try and time things so I can start the next round such that they are just about to start the stretch when the 1st round finishes. I estimate October 19.
> 
> ...


Choose the Bodhi Blue Tara male. That's where the fire is gonna be with Bodhi.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 6, 2014)

ok...will do. I'll plant a few more (4 or 5) of those then to ensure I get a male and hopefully at least one good female. Or I suppose I could plant all 10 and keep the best 2 females. Oh the decisions we have to make!! haha


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 10, 2014)

*Day 45 Update - Day 20 Flower*

So after being very disappointed with the experiment on my last update, I am starting to feel a little bit better about it. The tops are continuing to grow with alternating nodes and it looks like I will end up with some modest colas.

The two Critical Jack Herer - Critical Mass x Jack Herer plants are not only the tallest and most stretched plants but they are also the slowest to get into full flower swing. I really don't want to remove these two but if they continue to get taller I will have to.

I'm posting a picture of the canopy from inside the tent...it's HPS so sorry!
Picture #2 - Barneys Farm Seeds Critical Kush - Critical Mass x OG Kush
Picture #3 and #4: KC Brains Northern Lights Special

Thus far there is absolutely no difference in plants potted in 3" pots vs plants potted in 4" pots.

Going to do some defoliating this weekend. Will post before and after's.
A big flush tonight and then starting on Week #4 nute schedule @50% strength.


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## akhiymjames (Oct 10, 2014)

Everything looks good. Don't feel bad bro your key words are "experiment" so your bound to see things you don't like and whatno. Try to finish everything you got but if those few that still stretching grows too tall then do what you gotta do but now you know those aren't the ideal strains for what your trying to do. Still great work bro


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 10, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> Everything looks good. Don't feel bad bro your key words are "experiment" so your bound to see things you don't like and whatno. Try to finish everything you got but if those few that still stretching grows too tall then do what you gotta do but now you know those aren't the ideal strains for what your trying to do. Still great work bro


Yep, yep...thanks and will do. One of the Critical Jack Herer's is right in front in the HPS picture. Notice how it is barely in flower? Based on how the others grew, it appears to be like on day 4 of flowering. So I'm inclined to just get rid of those 2.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 10, 2014)

In that 3rd picture, do those leaves look a little too dark green to anyone? Today was the 1st time in 5 days I've had one out of the tent and besides, the lighting outside of my tent sucks so it's hard to see.


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## akhiymjames (Oct 10, 2014)

I see what you mean bro that one in front is slow to flower. Prolly a sativa dom strain and may not be warm enough to get her going. Def not what your looking for so I feel you on gettin rid of it. 

Naw the leaves aren't too dark on that third pic is just the lighting where you took the pic just don't give anymore high N nutes and you will be good bro


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 13, 2014)

*Day 48 Update - Day 23 Flower*

Girls are doing good. A few of them are still stretching a little. Did some selective defoliating but nothing too drastic. On several plants where there were two bud sites right next to one another, I removed one fan leaf and left the other. This should make for a good comparison to see how the two bud sites develop differently.

I needed to windex the reflector glass so I thought I would take this opportunity to put the MH back in so I could get some good pictures as well give the whole tent a good look over. Pleased to report that they look perfectly healthy. Thinking about running the MH for 2 days a week and then probably for the last two weeks exclusively...thoughts?


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## DirtyNerd (Oct 13, 2014)

Looking great nice and healthy some of them girls are soo tall its crazy make sure you keep a eye on them once they have huge buds up top or they will break in half overall great job!


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## Mainlinekush (Oct 15, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Day 48 Update - Day 23 Flower
> 
> 
> Girls are doing good. A few of them are still stretching a little. Did some selective defoliating but nothing too drastic. On several plants where there were two bud sites right next to one another, I removed one fan leaf and left the other. This should make for a good comparison to see how the two bud sites develop differently.
> ...


Hey brother I would flower with just your HPS you'll get more lumens per square foot and hopefully you'll end up with more bud your already all in $$$ wise on seeds time to get paid back IMO.
These are some tall plants!! I'm interested in finding a heavy weight strain and doing just 1 or 2 females seeds at a time after this run. I really want to see these finished so we can see the numbers per plant.
I would hate to have so many strains to keep separate on drying rack


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 16, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> Looking great nice and healthy some of them girls are soo tall its crazy make sure you keep a eye on them once they have huge buds up top or they will break in half overall great job!


Yeah, you're right. This is something I had not considered early on and with my pots being so tall and narrow the pots are tip prone too. What do you think...a make shift scrog net of some kind?


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## Mr.Head (Oct 16, 2014)

Youtube has lots of vids on trellis tying, really easy and a good skill to have  Took me a couple tries to make a good one. 

Can't find the vid I used.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 16, 2014)

Mainlinekush said:


> Hey brother I would flower with just your HPS you'll get more lumens per square foot and hopefully you'll end up with more bud your already all in $$$ wise on seeds time to get paid back IMO.
> These are some tall plants!! I'm interested in finding a heavy weight strain and doing just 1 or 2 females seeds at a time after this run. I really want to see these finished so we can see the numbers per plant.
> I would hate to have so many strains to keep separate on drying rack


I'm not concerned at all with getting paid back...in fact nearly everything I get is being given away as free meds to a few people. I never would have considered flowering with MH but something interesting happened the other day after I cleaned the reflector and put the MH in so I could take some better pictures: Within an hour the leaves on all the plants shot up reaching for the light. I began researching what kind of results others have had with MH and it got me curious. Also, take a look at the spectrum on my MH bulb vs other MH bulbs. This is the Hortilux Eye Blue.
 

As we get further along in flowering I will start taking detailed pictures of each strain I have left. And at the very end I will provide dry weights for everything.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 16, 2014)

Mr.Head said:


> Youtube has lots of vids on trellis tying, really easy and a good skill to have  Took me a couple tries to make a good one.
> 
> Can't find the vid I used.


Cool....I'll hit "The Google" and youtube and get to reading


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## Mainlinekush (Oct 16, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I'm not concerned at all with getting paid back...in fact nearly everything I get is being given away as free meds to a few people. I never would have considered flowering with MH but something interesting happened the other day after I cleaned the reflector and put the MH in so I could take some better pictures: Within an hour the leaves on all the plants shot up reaching for the light. I began researching what kind of results others have had with MH and it got me curious. Also, take a look at the spectrum on my MH bulb vs other MH bulbs. This is the Hortilux Eye Blue.
> View attachment 3274519
> 
> As we get further along in flowering I will start taking detailed pictures of each strain I have left. And at the very end I will provide dry weights for everything.


ALL PHASE High Output MH Lamps
SolarMax Gold All Phase High Output MH lamps are designed to produce significantly more orange / red wavelength than other halides. SOLARMAX lamps have reduced size jackets to fit most of today's compact, super efficient reflectors.

ALL PHASE High Output
Metal Halide Horticultural Lamp
SOLARMAX Gold are similar to a 3000 deg. Kelvin light source, these lamps are excellent for fruiting / flowering applications and because they are metal halides lamps they have enough full spectrum energy for all a plants needs from 380 to 760 nanometers.

I almost used a MH SolarMax Gold full spectrum bulb to flower.
I had to buy that digilux bulb last minute to match the one I got for free with my tent.
Around 8th week of veg I tried the gold MH bulb for left side of tent. I didn't really get to use it very long to see any difference but this bulb would be great for this kind of experiment for my self. The one I have is now discontinued so it's a back up bulb.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 16, 2014)

Mainlinekush said:


> View attachment 3274602
> 
> 
> ALL PHASE High Output MH Lamps
> ...


Despite suggestions otherwise, I think I'm going to use this Horitlux Blue MH the rest of the flowering cycle. Heck, maybe some of you will be interested just to see how it turns out?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 16, 2014)

*Day 51 Update - Day 26 Flower*

Things are going well. Had to kill two plants yesterday. One was just somewhat defective and the other just got too tall plus it was about 2 weeks behind in flowering.

I'm experimenting with some close ups...these first few closeups are not very good quality so I'll keep working on it. I pulled out one of the more resinous plants....the Northern Lights

*KC Brains Northern Lights Special*
   


*Delicious Seeds Critical Jack Herer (Critical Mass x Jack Herer)*
This one looks like the top cola could be pretty long (relative to most of the others)
* 

Center of Canopy
 *


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 20, 2014)

*Day 55 Update - Day 30 Flower*

Half way home! Things are going great. While I don't have anything to compare it to, I am really pleased with the Blue Planet nutrients as well as Coco + perlite. Except for the one minor issue I had early on, it has been smooth sailing. Plants have been healthy every step of the way.

The biggest challenges I face these last 30 days are going to be plants toppling over. These 3" x 10" pots simply have no means to stand on their own any more...especially once they start to dry out. Over the next week I hope to come up with a clever solution for securing the pots as well as the tops of the plants as they are starting to put on a little weight.
If they all were approximately the same height this would not be difficult.

Tallest plant: 42"
Shortest plant: 16"

This update will show case strain #6: Delicious Seeds Critical Jack Herer.
A few days ago I almost killed these two because they are the tallest and among the least developed but I decided to give them a chance.
There are two plants from this strain...one in a 3" pot and one in a 4" pot. The one in the 4" pot is about 1 inch taller but interestingly enough, the one in the 3" pot has larger flowers. Probably just coincidence and/or pheno and has nothing to do with the pot but I wanted to mention it.

*Strain #6: Delicious Seeds Critical Jack Herer*
*    
*

*Strain #9: Skunk #1*
I keep coming back to this strain. It is just a beautiful looking plant and easily the most recognizable. I have two of these...one in a 3" pot and one in 4" pot and they look identical.
   

I promise to stop fixating on Skunk #1 and post pictures of other strains.

Only 2 pics left before the 10 Pic max so here are 2 Canopy shots.
  

The defoliating that I did on or around day 21 of flowering has not shown any adverse effects. I studied several node sites where one fan leaf was removed and the other was kept and I see mixed results. On approximately half of the group, the bud site where the fan leaf was removed is *larger* and more developed than the side with the fan leaf and the other half of of the group, the bud site where the fan leaf was removed is smaller and less developed. Overall, results are inconclusive. One thing I am noticing is that Uncle Ben is right...lower bud sites do not seem to need direct light. Again, I see mixed results but I have numerous plants where lower bud sites that get no light at all are quite nice...not the stringy fluff I would have expected.

Cheers, and until next time


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## DirtyNerd (Oct 20, 2014)

Haha shit things are looking good i can see some baseball bat sized colas coming very soon them girl's are looking great mate good job


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 20, 2014)

Thanks DN...I'm hoping.


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## ASMALLVOICE (Oct 21, 2014)

Many thanx for the bud porn   

The Ladies are looking right as rain 

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice


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## Mr.Head (Oct 21, 2014)

Good job dude, doing great. Looking absolutely lovely in there.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 21, 2014)

Thanks man...the smell in the tent is amazing. With all of the different strains it's just a wonderful mix of goodness.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 21, 2014)

*Day 56 Update - Day 31 Flower*

Today's update will showcase 2 more strains:

*Strain #12: Bomb Seeds Bubble Bomb*
*     *
Pictures 3 & 4 are from the node directly underneath the main cola. One side had the fan leaf removed 10 days ago and the other side was left alone. This is an example where the 2 flowers at the node show minimal, if any, differences.


*Strain #2: Barneys Farm Seeds Top Dawg*
*   *
This strain seems to be noticeably leafier than others but it has pretty good resin production and looks like it might yield pretty well.

Cheers 

P.S. New camera comes Thursday...thanks goes out to https://www.rollitup.org/t/sativieds-picture-journal.831229/ for sharing his thoughts with me on his camera. I bought the same one he has. If you have not checked out his journal and his pictures you have to...utterly amazing detail.


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## Mainlinekush (Oct 21, 2014)

Looking great brother I want to see the Sensi Star!!!!! Mine was a runt from seed now she has the best buds growing.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 21, 2014)

Mainlinekush said:


> Looking great brother I want to see the Sensi Star!!!!! Mine was a runt from seed now she has the best buds growing.


Will do. I'll showcase her tomorrow then for ya 

I'm going to try and get back to daily updates now so I can document the progress across the strains more closely.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 21, 2014)

I'll go get pics of her now


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 21, 2014)

*Day 56 Update - Day 31 Flower - Continued*
*
Strain #19: Delicious Seeds Critical Sensi Star*
This was one of the several freebies so I only had 1 seed. It was originally planted in a 4" pot and was later downgraded to a 3" pot during the pre-flower stretch.
This is the 1st time I have pulled this plant out of the tent for a close look.

Height: 28" - About the average.
Flowering Progress: Average to slightly below average
Resin: Average to slightly above average.

The leaf to bud ratio is great!


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## Mainlinekush (Oct 21, 2014)

Nice mine was also a freebie! your buds are looking good on her. I didn't mainline or clone it but the yield is looking good here too.


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## DirtyNerd (Oct 21, 2014)

shit bro that is going to be huge your coming to the time where they start to pack on all there weight  make sure you got some strings or a net to go over them so you don't lose any 

the smell must be awesome my jack is getting sticky and stinky  it didn't smell much till two days ago  

anyway my brother keep up the great work


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 21, 2014)

Mainlinekush said:


> Nice mine was also a freebie buds looking good on her. I didn't mainline or clone her but the yield is looking good.


Mind sharing a pic of yours?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 21, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> shit bro that is going to be huge your coming to the time where they start to pack on all there weight  make sure you got some strings or a net to go over them so you don't lose any
> 
> the smell must be awesome my jack is getting sticky and stinky  it didn't smell much till two days ago
> 
> anyway my brother keep up the great work


Yeah...this is gunna be a problem soon...lol
I gotta figure out something. Cant have them toppling over like dominos 

The smell is AWESOME. It's just a mix and you can't really put your finger on what you're smelling you just know it's NICE


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 21, 2014)

I'm so relieved at their progress. At the end of the pre-flower stretch I was bummin so hard I almost just threw in the towel on this experiment.

Here are two pictures from October 5th. The stretch was so severe I thought the top colas were only going to be 1 inch tall. I did not realize that the top colas would continue to grow.


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## Mainlinekush (Oct 21, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Mind sharing a pic of yours?


My view Critical Sensi Star DAY 22
   
She has 4 main tops and are about 6 inches long right now.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 22, 2014)

Mainlinekush said:


> My view Critical Sensi Star
> View attachment 3278511 View attachment 3278514 View attachment 3278520 View attachment 3278521
> She has 4 main tops and are about 6 inches long right now.


Very nice! How many days in flower?


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## Mainlinekush (Oct 22, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Very nice! How many days in flower?


today is Day 22 12/12


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 22, 2014)

Mainlinekush said:


> today is Day 22 12/12


Wow, pretty far along for only 22 days. Those look like they have the potential to get really beefy.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 22, 2014)

*Day 57 Update - Day 32 Flower*
Morning update

*Strain #4: Barneys Farm Seeds Chronic Thunder*
Height: 32" - Above average
Resin: Average
Flowering Progress: Below average

    

This is a really neat plant. It has considerably more side branching than the average but the branches have grown right a long the main stem.
She has a really pleasant smell to her. It will be neat to see if some of these shoots beneath the top cola coalesce into the main cola. Could be a good yielder, this one.


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## basedgod420 (Oct 22, 2014)

Very nice looking grow. Surprised I still see a lot of hate around the net on the 12/12 from seed method. Del proved that it works, grows about a gram a watt and you don't put in a ton of effort. Been creeping a ton of 12/12 from seed grows as I am doing one myself. Will be watching your grow for sure!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 22, 2014)

basedgod420 said:


> Very nice looking grow. Surprised I still see a lot of hate around the net on the 12/12 from seed method. Del proved that it works, grows about a gram a watt and you don't put in a ton of effort. Been creeping a ton of 12/12 from seed grows as I am doing one myself. Will be watching your grow for sure!


Welcome aboard...glad to have you


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 22, 2014)

*Day 57 Update - Day 32 Flower*
Evening update - New camera for these pictures

*Strain #20: Dinafem Seeds Critical Cheese*
Height: 23" - Average to below average
Resin: Above Average
Flowering Progress: Above Average

       

How about some sexy close up's now 
  

Mucho props goes out to Sativied for helping with this camera


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## DirtyNerd (Oct 22, 2014)

Great stuff whats your new camera i got my self a new DSLR and i love it just ordered a macro so i can get some nice close up when my girls finishing off


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 22, 2014)

I got the Nikon D3200. It was a little intimidating at first but once I realized that the pictures it takes are like 6000 pixels wide it all made sense. It's really just point and click and if I want the closeup I just crop a small part of the picture and save it. At 24 Mega Pixels, the pic resize wonderfully. At first, I tried to upload the full size pics before I realized the size and the site choked on them...haha.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 22, 2014)

When I first went down into the tent i got all frustrated. My first couple of pics sucked. I was trying to cram the camera all up close on buds and I could not get it to focus (it won't take a picture if it thinks it's not in focus). It wasn't until after my 2nd trip down where I took a bunch of pics that it dawned on me about the resolution this thing is. I don't have to get all close.

I don't know shit about camera's but after my couple of tries with this thing, it is bad ass!


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## DirtyNerd (Oct 22, 2014)

Yeah that's the great thing about getting a good camera reseizing is easy with all them megapixels  get some macro filters and will get some great photos

also there is a attachment reverse lens and it makes it great for some super close ups with out needing to spend a shit load on a $$$ macro lens


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 22, 2014)

I'm not only excited about this new camera, but I've regained my enthusiasm on this experiment so I'm eager to keep documenting. Might continue doing 2 updates a day!
I know it's a little early to start drawing conclusions, but 1/2 way thru flowering and 2/3rds of the way done, it sure seems that most strains are perfectly fine for 12/12 from seed and this very well could be a viable technique. Once we get to the end and I can put together concrete numbers it will be interesting to discuss.


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## DirtyNerd (Oct 22, 2014)

That's great yeah i am trying to limit my updates to once a week at the moment now but once i do my next update on sunday should really be able to notice the change from the last photos i am just amazed how fast they showed there sex this grow 2 days little white hairs i was shocked couldn't be leave it 

anyway mate keep up the great work can't wait to see some more photos


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 22, 2014)

Thanks man and I sure will!


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## cherrybomb74 (Oct 23, 2014)

Really enjoyed your journal, found it yesterday, makes good reading seeing how far they've come, i'll be following your progress from now.
I did some 12/12 a couple of years ago under cfls, had terrible problems with light leak (had the most ghetto cab in the world! ) but ended up with a couple of decent plants  if i recall i ran an Eva Monster and a dna OG Skunk, both producing around 35g dry. I've included a (terrible) pic of the Monster pre-chop, the skunk ones seem to have disappeared from my computer...
Anyway...after some time away from this damn fine forum (during which time i managed to get a better set up and some successful regular grows under my belt) you have made me want to try 12/12 again . Thank you bro! Happy growing


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 23, 2014)

cherrybomb74 said:


> Really enjoyed your journal, found it yesterday, makes good reading seeing how far they've come, i'll be following your progress from now.
> I did some 12/12 a couple of years ago under cfls, had terrible problems with light leak (had the most ghetto cab in the world! ) but ended up with a couple of decent plants  if i recall i ran an Eva Monster and a dna OG Skunk, both producing around 35g dry. I've included a (terrible) pic of the Monster pre-chop, the skunk ones seem to have disappeared from my computer...
> Anyway...after some time away from this damn fine forum (during which time i managed to get a better set up and some successful regular grows under my belt) you have made me want to try 12/12 again . Thank you bro! Happy growing


That plant is gorgeous! Your plant is exactly what I was hoping for...not my 3 feet tall ones! haha.
Thanks for the kind words and I'm glad your here. Feel free to give me your opinions, suggestions...anything at all!


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## cherrybomb74 (Oct 23, 2014)

You seem to be doing just fine as you are! Kudos to you . If i think of anything i'll chime in, but feel free to ignore it  don't want to get in the way of such a good experiment!
Thanks for the kind compliment (she was an awesome smoke too!), I think i lucked out with my plants, due to using cfls i had to keep them so close to the girls they had no real room to stretch.
Wish the internet had smellovision, i bet your growspace is smelling insane right now!!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 23, 2014)

cherrybomb74 said:


> You seem to be doing just fine as you are! Kudos to you . If i think of anything i'll chime in, but feel free to ignore it  don't want to get in the way of such a good experiment!
> Thanks for the kind compliment (she was an awesome smoke too!), I think i lucked out with my plants, due to using cfls i had to keep them so close to the girls they had no real room to stretch.
> Wish the internet had smellovision, i bet your growspace is smelling insane right now!!


The smell is pretty nuts. With so many strains there are so many aromas. They all kind of blend together into a smell that is just *nice*...lol


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## cherrybomb74 (Oct 23, 2014)

Mmmm i can imagine, won't be long til you get to taste the fruits of your labor  are there any in particular you can't wait to try? You'll be like a kid in a candy shop! Loving the look of your critical cheese, the trich-porn pics from that are ridiculous!!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 23, 2014)

cherrybomb74 said:


> Mmmm i can imagine, won't be long til you get to taste the fruits of your labor  are there any in particular you can't wait to try? You'll be like a kid in a candy shop! Loving the look of your critical cheese, the trich-porn pics from that are ridiculous!!


Thanks...most of them have really good trich's. To be honest, I have not really thought too much about which ones to try. I've just been focused on the experiment but now that I can start to see the finish line I'll probably start thinking about it. I think I'll look forward to trying each and every one. I'll probably make a rating chart cause I'm a nerd and that's how I roll


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## Mainlinekush (Oct 23, 2014)

Lol your on the right track with data your going to find some real heavy weight strains hopefully. Hot damn I want a new camera one toy at a time


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## green217 (Oct 23, 2014)

Your ladies are looking great! Hopefully all will go smoothly for me as well. Im getting ready to go for a SOG myself. So what would you suggest for pot size I am going with clones off of some plants I'm revegging. I'm planning on cutting them and putting the prospective clones in a dome sometime this weekend. I have a 3x3 tent with a 600w(tent that I haven't used yet), and a 5x6 with a 1000w that I've been growing out of successfully all summer. What size pots and how many do I need to get to fill the 3x3? and the 5x6? BUT on the other hand a perpetual sounds beneficial as well, But I am at least going to sog that 3x3 tent with a 600w hortilux, at least for the first run, Then maybe go for the perpetual.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 23, 2014)

green217 said:


> Your ladies are looking great! Hopefully all will go smoothly for me as well. Im getting ready to go for a SOG myself. So what would you suggest for pot size I am going with clones off of some plants I'm revegging. I'm planning on cutting them and putting the prospective clones in a dome sometime this weekend. I have a 3x3 tent with a 600w(tent that I haven't used yet), and a 5x6 with a 1000w that I've been growing out of successfully all summer. What size pots and how many do I need to get to fill the 3x3? and the 5x6? BUT on the other hand a perpetual sounds beneficial as well, But I am at least going to sog that 3x3 tent with a 600w hortilux, at least for the first run, Then maybe go for the perpetual.


I don't really feel like I have a enough experience to make any suggestions for you. I'm just starting to learn myself!


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## green217 (Oct 23, 2014)

I feel ya, how big is your room/tent and how many plants do you have in there now?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 23, 2014)

green217 said:


> I feel ya, how big is your room/tent and how many plants do you have in there now?


Tent is 4' x 4'. I'll have to go count. I started with a little over 50. I'm going to guess I have about 40. They are all really close together occupying about 2 feet by 2 feet.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 23, 2014)

*Day 58 Update - Day 33 Flower*
*
Canopy Shots
    


Strain #10: Sensi Seeds Silver Haze #9*
This strain is by far the worst performing strain. Buds are small. Not a lot of bud sites. Top cola is very weak. What buds are there looks and smell nice but she looks to be a terrible yielder.
 


*Strain #11: Barneys Farm Seeds Critical Kush*
34" tall, nice resin, nice top cola. All in all a nice looking plant.


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## sherman420 (Oct 24, 2014)

Hey Diggity,

Great journal. It's taken me two evening's to sift through all this material. It will probably take two weeks to digest this great information. Just wondering, have you put any thought into harvest and the time it will take to trim and tidy up all of your final product and witch strain would be most suitable for this? I waited for a bit to chime in before asking such a question seeing that their are more pressing issues to be addressed in this awesome journal! I'll be following this closely, I'm very interested in your final analysis. 

Keep up the good work. 

Sherman420


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 24, 2014)

sherman420 said:


> Hey Diggity,
> 
> Great journal. It's taken me two evening's to sift through all this material. It will probably take two weeks to digest this great information. Just wondering, have you put any thought into harvest and the time it will take to trim and tidy up all of your final product and witch strain would be most suitable for this? I waited for a bit to chime in before asking such a question seeing that their are more pressing issues to be addressed in this awesome journal! I'll be following this closely, I'm very interested in your final analysis.
> 
> ...


When I first started out on this experiment, I did not expect that many of the strains would perform well under 12/12. To my surprise, nearly every strain has performed well. The Silver Haze #9 is the only strain so far that is definitely out....in fact I'll probably just remove her today.

Other than that, it's still a little early to draw any concrete conclusions. Flowering is only 1/2 way done so we've gotta wait some more!


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## cherrybomb74 (Oct 24, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Day 58 Update - Day 33 Flower
> Canopy Shots
> View attachment 3279512 View attachment 3279513 View attachment 3279514 View attachment 3279515
> 
> ...


Wow that Critical Kush is looking FROSTY!
Maybe the silver haze is a bit too sativa (just looked it up - 80% sativa)...might well take longer than the others, especially under 12/12. If she looks nice and smells nice, can't be so wrong huh?  good work Diggity!
I am happy today - have a G13 blueberry gum ready to go into soil, and a bagseed (not just any bagseed, it is the most healthy looking seed i've ever seen!) has grown a tail too, high hopes!! 

Edit: AND...my latest order has just been dispatched from OSSC!! Got some bargains, 14 seeds (6 autos, the rest fem photos) for £24....that's about $38 i think...ah starting to daydream about what could be!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 24, 2014)

cherrybomb74 said:


> Wow that Critical Kush is looking FROSTY!
> Maybe the silver haze is a bit too sativa (just looked it up - 80% sativa)...might well take longer than the others, especially under 12/12. If she looks nice and smells nice, can't be so wrong huh?  good work Diggity!
> I am happy today - have a G13 blueberry gum ready to go into soil, and a bagseed (not just any bagseed, it is the most healthy looking seed i've ever seen!) has grown a tail too, high hopes!!
> 
> Edit: AND...my latest order has just been dispatched from OSSC!! Got some bargains, 14 seeds (6 autos, the rest fem photos) for £24....that's about $38 i think...ah starting to daydream about what could be!


Awesome! It's so exciting getting ready to start new seeds


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## cherrybomb74 (Oct 24, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Awesome! It's so exciting getting ready to start new seeds


And of course they will be grown 12/12 (if only to determine the sex of the bagseed quickly) along with a delahaze and lemon kush (when my order arrives). I've done a bbgum on 12/12 before, not a great yield but lovely smoke. Your experiment has inspired, thanks man


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 24, 2014)

cherrybomb74 said:


> And of course they will be grown 12/12 (if only to determine the sex of the bagseed quickly) along with a delahaze and lemon kush (when my order arrives). I've done a bbgum on 12/12 before, not a great yield but lovely smoke. Your experiment has inspired, thanks man


That's very flattering...thank you.


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## cherrybomb74 (Oct 24, 2014)

Just keep doing what you're doing  looking forward to seeing your results


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 24, 2014)

*Day 59 Update - Day 34 Flower
Strain #3: Barneys Farm Seeds G13 Haze*
21" Tall. All of the lower shoots were removed at or around day 21.
This plant has a large number of sugar leaves.
   

I decided to continue with defoliating this one...I remove most of the larger fan leaves but did not touch any of the sugar's.
Here she is right afterwards.




*Strain #5: Barneys Farm Seeds Red Dragon*
21" Tall. On or around day 21 the lowest side shoots were removed.
    

Starting to get some violet colored hairs which is cool and is due to the Metal Halide.

Edit: I have a 100 watt incandescent light turned on and I think it caused a lot of these leaves to look brown and dying which is not the case at all. Everything is lush green still.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 25, 2014)

*Day 60 Update - Day 35 Flower Part #1*
Tonight was the big night to pull all of the plants out of the tent and do the big rearrangement for canopy evenness. I noticed one the plants had what appeared to be a deficiency which I figured was maybe nute burn. I posted this picture on the Problems forum and the guys said it looks like mites. My heart sunk...I'm really scared now and the lights just went off so I can't check with my loupe for 12 hours.

 

This is the only plant out of the 35 or so plants going that looks like this. I'll be googling tonight but if there is a solution in the event this is mites, please tell me!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 25, 2014)

*Day 60 Update - Day 35 Flower Part #2*

This is the 1st time I have had the plants out of the tent since I moved em in so I got some pictures with them being nice and spaced out.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 25, 2014)

*Day 60 Update - Day 35 Flower Part #3*

I have a very large variance in height. Shortest plant is 16 inches and tallest is 44. Here is what I've come up with:

I organized the plants into 4 groups according to height. These plants have not had their risers put on yet to even them out...this is just the 1st step.

I decided to put the shortest plants in the right rear. The milk crate they are in is elevated by a 1/2 size milk crate:
 


Side angle:
 


To the left of those, I put the 2nd shortest group.
 

 


This shot shows the 1st two groups and how they are elevated:


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 25, 2014)

*Day 60 Update - Day 35 Flower Part #4*

Groups 3 and 4...the tallest plants


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 25, 2014)

*Day 60 Update - Day 35 Flower Part #5*

Putting it altogether, here is the updated tent.

   

I still need to implement risers on each plant to bring them up to the correct height but since I have organized them into the 4 different height groups, this task will be much more manageable and I will post updates on how I do it and the end results soon.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 25, 2014)

Watering is now going to be more of a pain because I don't have drain pans underneath to catch run-off but such is life.
I'll just have to pull each of the 4 groups out one a a time and water over a tray. With only 25 ish days left that's fine by me.


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## Mainlinekush (Oct 26, 2014)

I have the same
problem after tent is loaded I pull 6 pots out and water them outside the tent. Then crawl in and water last 5. Whole time I swap regular catch tray for large oil pans so I can dump run off before putting plants back into position takes over an hour about 8 gallons of water get used.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 29, 2014)

*Day 64 Update - Day 39 Flower*

Problems galore. Up until a few days ago, this experiment has more or less gone without any major problems. On my previous update I had shown a plant with what appeared to be mites. As it turns out, it was not mites which is great. What it ended up being, most likely, was PH problems. This is is such a rookie mistake and I'm really upset at myself but here is what happened.

For the 1st 40 days or so of this grow, I checked PH after mixing nutes religiously. My tap (well) water was always right at 7 and after adding nutes it was still at 7. I gradually got into the routine of adding 6.25 ml of PH Down on every 5 gallon watering. I got lazy and stopped checking PH. On Day 22 of flower is when I really started increasing the feeding schedule and I made the false assumption that the nutrients were not affecting the PH. As it turned out, my feeding regiment during day's 22 thru 33 of flowering was bringing my water all the way down to 6 before adding PH Down. So I have been watering with water that was approximately PH'd to 4.8. So...this sucks and I hope I have not done too much damage to both quality and yield.

2nd big problem: My carbon filter inside the tent has failed. This problem started about 2 weeks ago but got really bad within the last couple of days. I've checked for leaks so the filter has either faltered or humidity has affected it. Filter is only 70 some odd days old and RH is consistent 46% to 54%. I've order a replacement and will have it Friday.

My secondary line of odor control is holding up for the time being but it's a little nerve wracking.

4 days ago I flushed HUGE amounts of water thru the pots.
Yesterday I watered with 60% strength nutes + 4 ml/g of Cal Mag and only 2 ml total of PH Down.
Today I watered with 70% strength nutes, no cal mag and no ph down.

I chose CalMag on yesterdays feeding on the outside chance the deficiencies I saw were Cal/Mag def. and not PH but that is unlikely.
Either way, I did a low does feed of the cal mag.

Plants are looking nice still and a follow up update is coming with pictures.


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## bradburry (Oct 29, 2014)

well im gunna skin up put the kettle on and read through this because im doing 12/12 from seed now and r trying to master the one cola thing. i plan trimming off the side shoots from the bottom until it starts to go into flower giving just one cola.
iv done it before its simple it takes no space and if you get a problem its only in one plant.
its good for a constant harvest.....good luck if im not to late iv not read any yet....peace


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 29, 2014)

*Day 64 Update - Day 39 Flower - Part #2*

I put the HPS back in. Canopy has been relatively evened out. One more re-arrangement coming and then the make shift net will be applied to prevent toppling over.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 29, 2014)

*Day 64 Update - Day 39 Flower - Part #3*

Some of the milk crates pulled out and photographed in the dark:


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## bradburry (Oct 29, 2014)

Mr.Head said:


> Doing a grow like this is a great way to learn about the plant, and different strains. I learned a lot with my limited 12/12 grows.


 thats one of the reasons i do it


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 29, 2014)

*Day 64 Update - Day 39 Flower - Part #4*

Closeups! These girls are really packing on the resin. Wish I could do my camera justice. I'm a terrible photographer.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 29, 2014)

bradburry said:


> well im gunna skin up put the kettle on and read through this because im doing 12/12 from seed now and r trying to master the one cola thing. i plan trimming off the side shoots from the bottom until it starts to go into flower giving just one cola.
> iv done it before its simple it takes no space and if you get a problem its only in one plant.
> its good for a constant harvest.....good luck if im not to late iv not read any yet....peace


Welcome and pull up a seat! If you have any questions feel free to ask. If you have any suggestions, please don't hesitate!


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## bradburry (Oct 29, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Day 45 Update - Day 20 Flower*
> 
> So after being very disappointed with the experiment on my last update, I am starting to feel a little bit better about it. The tops are continuing to grow with alternating nodes and it looks like I will end up with some modest colas.
> 
> ...


 thats what mine looked like but with out the stretch.......light ultra close worked for me......looking nice


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 29, 2014)

bradburry said:


> thats what mine looked like but with out the stretch.......light ultra close worked for me......looking nice


I kept the light ultra close too. I think the consensus is that the tightly packed spacing was probably the cause. Up thru the stretch, 16 per sq/ft with the 3" pots and 9 per sq/ft with the 4" pots.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 1, 2014)

*Day 67 Update - Day 42 Flower*

Things are going very well. I stopped feeding for a few days and am watering with only PH'd water. The girls were not burned but they just looked like they had too much Nitrogen. After this flush I will resume feeding but I will reduce the high Nitrogen portions of the feed and increase the Bloom. Thinking maybe 30%-40% for the high N and 60% - 70% for everything else.

Odor management is no longer working for the tent so I just replaced the carbon filter with a new one. Sure hope it was a failed filter and this works.
Otherwise, not too much to report. Girls are doing lovely. A few of them look like they are going to take a long long time to finish. Once I hit around 52 days I will start taking a loupe to them and will check trich's daily.

Here are some random closeup's from different plants.


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## akhiymjames (Nov 1, 2014)

Boy it's been a min since I been here and these have come along very nicely bro. Great work your doing. I need me a filter too but it's too late as mine is gettin ready to come down Friday. But I'll def have one for the testers I have going right now. 

Keep up the great work man. Those girls are sparkling like diamonds. Have you narrowed em down to which ones you like best? Which ones are doing the best for what your looking for as growth and in the pot size they're in???


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 1, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> Boy it's been a min since I been here and these have come along very nicely bro. Great work your doing. I need me a filter too but it's too late as mine is gettin ready to come down Friday. But I'll def have one for the testers I have going right now.
> 
> Keep up the great work man. Those girls are sparkling like diamonds. Have you narrowed em down to which ones you like best? Which ones are doing the best for what your looking for as growth and in the pot size they're in???


I have my favorites but I won't reveal them until harvest. Then gotta go thru the smoke report too 
Pot size has not really seemed to matter except I will never use small pots like this again just because of how often they have to be watered. But this has shown that a plant can do just fine with a small volume of root space.


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## akhiymjames (Nov 1, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I have my favorites but I won't reveal them until harvest. Then gotta go thru the smoke report too
> Pot size has not really seemed to matter except I will never use small pots like this again just because of how often they have to be watered. But this has shown that a plant can do just fine with a small volume of root space.


Sounds good bro will be waiting for those results. I agree will the small pots as a full flowering plant is very thirsty and those small lots won't hold enough water. If your looking for small type of pots look at grow bags. I'm trying them out now for the first time and the 1 gal I'm using right now is nice size for people doing 12/12 from seed or flowering clones immediately. You'll be amazed at what these plants can do to survive and thrive


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 1, 2014)

akhiymjames said:


> Sounds good bro will be waiting for those results. I agree will the small pots as a full flowering plant is very thirsty and those small lots won't hold enough water. If your looking for small type of pots look at grow bags. I'm trying them out now for the first time and the 1 gal I'm using right now is nice size for people doing 12/12 from seed or flowering clones immediately. You'll be amazed at what these plants can do to survive and thrive


The next progression for me will be to run the experiment again but instead of using individual containers, I will use some form of rubbermaid totes and do them hempy style. Will make sure to only do one strain per tote due to plant height variance.

For the most part, most of the strains would be perfectly suitable for 12/12 fs. Going into the experiment, I kind of figured there might only be a few strains that actually do well but as it turned out, there are only a few that did not do well.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 1, 2014)

*Day 67 Update - Day 42 Flower - Part #2*

Replaced what I thought was a failed carbon filter in the tent today. Did not solve the problem. Removed the glass on my reflector and gave it a thorough clean. It occurred to me that last time I cleaned the glass was around the same time the odor control started to fail and last time I reseated the glass while the fan was still on which really sucked it into place. This time I turned the fan off and seated the glass and secured it and then turned the exhaust back on. It's a long shot but worth the try. Last step is to replace all of the ducting. I can't find any leaks but I suppose that does not mean there aren't any. The room the tent is in reeks but not nearly as bad as the tent when I open the door and the outer room is controlling the odor thus far.

Switched the HPS out for the MH again. Yeah...I'm OCD...shoot me. Honestly, the few days the HPS was on...they just were not diggin it like they were with the MH. Won't be switching again...it's MH from here on out.

Here are some tent pictures and a few close ups...enjoy.


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 1, 2014)

Wow that is awesome bro them girls are getting HUGE! the frost on that last photo is sexy and shes still got some time on her now awesome job


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 1, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> Wow that is awesome bro them girls are getting HUGE! the frost on that last photo is sexy and shes still got some time on her now awesome job


Thanks!!!! I'm super pleased and with it only being day 42 I'm very excited about the possible outcome.


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 1, 2014)

Yeah you are going to have some great smoke on your hands that's for sure  almost a new flavor every day of the month need to do 30 on the next grow


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 1, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> Yeah you are going to have some great smoke on your hands that's for sure  almost a new flavor every day of the month need to do 30 on the next grow


Variety is the spice of life 
Wish I could convince my wife of that....lol, jk...


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## Sativied (Nov 4, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Wish I could do my camera justice. I'm a terrible photographer.


3 days later =>


Hot Diggity Sog said:


> View attachment 3285466


Looks like you're getting the hang of it.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 4, 2014)

Sativied said:


> 3 days later =>
> 
> Looks like you're getting the hang of it.


Thanks man...I think I'm starting to. Appreciate your help too


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## 0james0 (Nov 4, 2014)

Really good effort. I love stuff like this, rather than hoping to get answers from others, you've actually been bothered to do the experiment yourself. With great results. 

Its interesting about the pot sizes, I've just gone and moved mine into massive monster pots, hoping to increase the yield, but maybe it makes less of a difference than I thought. 

I'm on my second batch of my experiment, I'm growing them horizontal. Last time worked amazing, this time I've made some mistakes that I somehow avoided last time (through luck more than judgement) but it's all part of the learning process. 

42 days to get to where you are, makes me want to rethink everything I thought I knew about growing!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 4, 2014)

0james0 said:


> Really good effort. I love stuff like this, rather than hoping to get answers from others, you've actually been bothered to do the experiment yourself. With great results.
> 
> Its interesting about the pot sizes, I've just gone and moved mine into massive monster pots, hoping to increase the yield, but maybe it makes less of a difference than I thought.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the kind words. I don't think I would ever use pots like this again because I have to water so often but this has proven to me that a small root volume can still generate good results.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 4, 2014)

*Day 70 Update - Day 45 Flower - Part #1*

We're on day #45 and things are going great. Had another unfortunate power outage for over 3 hours. My UPS on the secondary carbon filter only held out for about 30 minutes and an hour later my entire house was FUCKED UP. Took all night to air it out after the power came back on...lol. That's 2 power outages in the last 5 weeks...I mean come on, really?

It's getting pretty cold here and the basement temps are dropping.
I turned the exhaust fan in the tent down to about 70% to try and bring the temps up a little during lights on.

Temps in the tent are 70 during lights on and 61 is the coldest it has gotten during lights off.
RH pretty stable...43% in the tent and it fluctuates from 38% to 44%.

I've made slight alterations to my feeding regiment. I've dropped the "Micro" portion of my feed from 50% strength down to 40%. I felt like the plants were getting a little too much Nitrogen and the Micro is rated at 5-0-1 and is the highest source of N. If anyone thinks this was a bad move, please chime in.

I've kept every other part running at 50% except for the "Bloom" which I increased to 60%. Started adding small amounts of CalMag to alternating waterings at only 3 ml/g which is quite a bit less than the suggested. CalMag really makes the PH skyrocket up btw...anyone noticed that?

Watering once per day with a feed every water. Still watering with 5 gallons and getting approximately 3 gallons of run off and this has been working well...its like I'm flushing on every watering.

Alright...enough jibber jabber...some overall group pics:


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 4, 2014)

*Day 70 Update - Day 45 Flower - Part #2*

Because I was not entirely sure which plants had been killed off along the way, I took updated counts according to pot size and here they are:

*3 Inch Pots*
Barneys Farm Seeds Top Dawg
Barneys Farm Seeds G13 Haze
Barneys Farm Seeds Chronic Thunder
Barneys Farm Seeds Red Dragon
Delicious Seeds Critical Jack Herer
KC Brains Northern Lights Special
Reserva Privada Sour Kush AKA Headband
Sensi Seeds Skunk #1
Barneys Farm Seeds Critical Kush
Bomb Seeds Bubble Bomb
Connoisseur Genetics Seeds East Coast Sour Diesel Haze
Barneys Farm Seeds Blue Cheese
Delicious Seeds Critical Sensi Star
Dinafem Seeds Critical Cheese
Samsara Seeds Green Love Potion
Seedism Seeds Cheese

*4 Inch Pots*
Barneys Farm Seeds Top Dawg
Barneys Farm Seeds G13 Haze
Barneys Farm Seeds Red Dragon
Delicious Seeds Critical Jack Herer
KC Brains Northern Lights Special
Sensi Seeds Skunk #1
Sensi Seeds Silver Haze #9
Barneys Farm Seeds Critical Kush
Bomb Seeds Bubble Bomb
Strain Hunters Seedbank Seeds Flowerbomb Kush

Grand total of 26 Plants.

The next few updates will showcase 9 of these strains...stay tuned.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 4, 2014)

*Day 70 Update - Day 45 Flower - Part #3
Barneys Farm Seeds G13 Haze
*
I have one of these in a 3 Inch pot and one in a 4 Inch pot and these two plants look totally different. They are both super short.
The 3 inch pot looks quite a bit frostier and further along but probably will not yield as well as the one in the 4 inch pot. This is the only example I have seen so far where the strain varies this much in appearance.

Here is the one in the 3 Inch pot:
   


And the 4 Inch pot
   


Edit: Forgot the closeups...added now


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 4, 2014)

Great update man them girls are looking so good! the room was smell insane they are really filling out nicely not long to go now couple of weeks i think the yield is going to be good


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 4, 2014)

*Day 70 Update - Day 45 Flower - Part #4
Sensi Seeds Skunk #1*
*
     *


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 4, 2014)

Will have to finish in the morning...7 more strains to showcase still.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 4, 2014)

*Day 70 Update - Day 45 Flower - Part #5
Dinafem Seeds Critical Cheese*
(Last one for the night) - One of my recent favorites


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 5, 2014)

*Day 70 Update - Day 45 Flower - Part #6
Delicious Seeds Critical Jack Herer*

This is a really cool plant. She is probably going to take quite a bit longer to finish than the average but she has a very long top cola.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 5, 2014)

*Day 70 Update - Day 45 Flower - Part #7
Connoisseur Genetics Seeds East Coast Sour Diesel Haze*

This plant looks much better in photos than in person...especially from afar. The buds are very airy.


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## ASMALLVOICE (Nov 5, 2014)

Frosty Indeed 

FIner than frog hair M8.   

Many Thanx for the Bud Porn  

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice


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## ayr0n (Nov 6, 2014)




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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 6, 2014)

ayr0n said:


>


You're the 1st person to make that connection (at least to mention it). You must have kids too


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 6, 2014)

*Day 72 Update - Day 47 Flower*

Brief update tonight. I did a flush this morning and then watered again this evening with a modified feeding schedule. Starting to gradually reduce the PPM's starting with the high N parts of the diet. Keeping the bloom portions fixed for the time being.

I was not planning on doing an update tonight but a couple of plants caught my eye. Some really nice orange hairs developed so I thought I would capture them and share.

I mean really...when this is what I see when I unzip my tent...does it really get much better than that? haha...I love it.


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## catfishclyde (Nov 6, 2014)

This is the best grow journal i have ever seen. I have been wanting to do something almost exactly like this except i was just going to do 1 strain for the first run.
I'll wait and see what you think is the best strain and thats the one i'll do!
Awesome job, i will for sure be watching.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 6, 2014)

catfishclyde said:


> This is the best grow journal i have ever seen. I have been wanting to do something almost exactly like this except i was just going to do 1 strain for the first run.
> I'll wait and see what you think is the best strain and thats the one i'll do!
> Awesome job, i will for sure be watching.


Wow man...thank you so much...means a lot!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 6, 2014)

catfishclyde said:


> This is the best grow journal i have ever seen. I have been wanting to do something almost exactly like this except i was just going to do 1 strain for the first run.
> I'll wait and see what you think is the best strain and thats the one i'll do!
> Awesome job, i will for sure be watching.


Doing 1 strain is going to be a good idea. The height variance I have had to battle is terrible. At least with one strain you have a much better chance of relatively equal plant height.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 7, 2014)

My father passed away last night. He has been sick for some time so it was not a surprise but it was still sudden. I'll be travelling 1100 miles across country to help with all of the arrangements. Unfortunately I don't have anyone that can manage the grow while I'm gone so I'm forced to chop them...probably tonight. I'm very disappointed that I cannot see this grow to the end but I feel I have collected enough information to draw many of the conclusions I was seeking.


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 7, 2014)

Oh my brother i am so sorry for your lose i wish you and your family the best in this hard time and we look forward to your return 

Don't worry about the grow you have done a great job and will still have a good yield and can always start again when you returned you have learned a lot from this grow and your next grow will be even better 

Once again sorry for your lose and all the best in your travels be safe and stay strong



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> My father passed away last night. He has been sick for some time so it was not a surprise but it was still sudden. I'll be travelling 1100 miles across country to help with all of the arrangements. Unfortunately I don't have anyone that can manage the grow while I'm gone so I'm forced to chop them...probably tonight. I'm very disappointed that I cannot see this grow to the end but I feel I have collected enough information to draw many of the conclusions I was seeking.


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## ayr0n (Nov 7, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> You're the 1st person to make that connection (at least to mention it). You must have kids too


Lol yeah my fiance is babysitting her niece while she finishes up her Masters program so we get down to Mickey's Clubhouse in the mornings


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## Dloomis514 (Nov 7, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> My father passed away last night. He has been sick for some time so it was not a surprise but it was still sudden. I'll be travelling 1100 miles across country to help with all of the arrangements. Unfortunately I don't have anyone that can manage the grow while I'm gone so I'm forced to chop them...probably tonight. I'm very disappointed that I cannot see this grow to the end but I feel I have collected enough information to draw many of the conclusions I was seeking.


 So sorry for your loss, may you and your family be blessed


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## GroErr (Nov 7, 2014)

Damn Hot Diggity, sorry to hear the news, still miss my dad but he's always with me through all the things he taught me and good times we had. Be well and go take care of things.


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## ayr0n (Nov 7, 2014)

Sorry to hear the news @Hot Diggity Sog - Truly can't imagine or relate (never met my dad) but loss is never easy.

I've read in other threads where people rigged up automated systems to keep their girls alive for extended periods of time when they couldn't attend to them - might be some hope left for these girls?


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## Mainlinekush (Nov 7, 2014)

Very sorry to hear that brother, hope everything goes smoothly as it can for you. 

Your grow was really kicking ass up to this point we all appreciate the hard work.


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## sky rocket (Nov 7, 2014)

Just found this journal last night I went through the all of your pages and first of all I'm sorry to hear about your Dad. I'm sure he's in a better place. Nice well detailed journal. I myself prefer to sea of green. I like to utilize all my light and space to th utmost and I hat vegging. That's why I run 2l hempy's sea of green. Rootd 6-8" clones straight to 12/12. Right now I have 2X600's magnum xxl's. I'm running 36 tangies in 1.5 gallon square buckets. I've personally ran sog for Pineapple Express and they do well. I'm going to buy 120 Dinafem blue kushand run a true sog. Aiming for the 1.0 gram per watt (true goal 1.3 gpw). Dinafem says that blue kush is a good candidate for sog.


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## sky rocket (Nov 7, 2014)

green217 said:


> Your ladies are looking great! Hopefully all will go smoothly for me as well. Im getting ready to go for a SOG myself. So what would you suggest for pot size I am going with clones off of some plants I'm revegging. I'm planning on cutting them and putting the prospective clones in a dome sometime this weekend. I have a 3x3 tent with a 600w(tent that I haven't used yet), and a 5x6 with a 1000w that I've been growing out of successfully all summer. What size pots and how many do I need to get to fill the 3x3? and the 5x6? BUT on the other hand a perpetual sounds beneficial as well, But I am at least going to sog that 3x3 tent with a 600w hortilux, at least for the first run, Then maybe go for the perpetual.


2 liter hempy or coco medium. You can squeezed 30-40 of them under your 600 or 40-50 under your 1000. 6-8" rooted clones. Take care of them and you could get at least get 11 grams per plant. Good genetics up to 15-18 grams per plant. Do the math.....boom! P.m. I can help ya out if needed.


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## sky rocket (Nov 7, 2014)

Mr.Head said:


> heard DNA's Tangie is good, haven't got a chance to grow any out yet though. Not on the agenda for this year  maybe next.


Running tangie right now. 36 girls under 2x600. If it's okay with diggity. I'll put up some pics.....


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## NoSwagBag (Nov 7, 2014)

Sorry for your loss. Take care.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 7, 2014)

Thanks for the condolences everyone...really appreciate it.

So it's been a little crazy today but found out that my dad is being cremated. I guess this is just not something he ever talked to me about it. We're still going to have a service for him but it looks like it's not going to be for 2 weeks so the good news is that I don't have to hop right on a plane and scurry out of here. I should be able to complete this experiment.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 7, 2014)

sky rocket said:


> Running tangie right now. 36 girls under 2x600. If it's okay with diggity. I'll put up some pics.....


I don't mind...go right ahead.


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## sky rocket (Nov 7, 2014)

Here's my 36 tangies under my 2x600.....I think somewhere around 14-26 days.... I got to find my journal for the exact date......a little bit of leaf claw up top due to the heat. I raised the lights. I will put another fan in there along with my co2.


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## sky rocket (Nov 7, 2014)

If I get time I'm going to take cuttings from my reserva Prada strawberry banana mom and take about 30-40 cuttings and do a sog. I take 6-8" cuttings....


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 8, 2014)

sky rocket said:


> Here's my 36 tangies under my 2x600.....I think somewhere around 14-26 days.... I got to find my journal for the exact date......a little bit of leaf claw up top due to the heat. I raised the lights. I will put another fan in there along with my co2.


This looks great man...do you have an active journal on the site? I'd like to ask you a bunch of questions but would prefer not to do it all in my journal.


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 8, 2014)

Good to hear your going to be able to finish the grow off mate


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## sky rocket (Nov 8, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> This looks great man...do you have an active journal on the site? I'd like to ask you a bunch of questions but would prefer not to do it all in my journal.


No journal yet. I have a simint cookies pheno hunt journal on another site. I'll do a journal soon. Pm me with any questions.


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## nameno (Nov 9, 2014)

Hot,what are you growing in it looks real slender to me?
I been growing 12x12 for a while now,but I switching from DWC to
hempy. I never grew in anything other than water.I don't understand why people start in 1 size & then up it to a larger 1? Why not just start in the right 1 to begin with?
Thanks in advance for any information


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 9, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> Good to hear your going to be able to finish the grow off mate


Me too...I'm pretty relieved.


nameno said:


> Hot,what are you growing in it looks real slender to me?
> I been growing 12x12 for a while now,but I switching from DWC to
> hempy. I never grew in anything other than water.I don't understand why people start in 1 size & then up it to a larger 1? Why not just start in the right 1 to begin with?
> Thanks in advance for any information


On the very first page I talk about the containers I'm using.
3 inch by 10 inch pots and 4 inch by 12 inch pots. a 60/40 mix of coco/perlite.

Regarding re-potting to larger containers...I don't really have an answer for that. I personally would agree you with but others tend to pot up one or more times so surely there is logic to why they do so but I don't know what it is.


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## nameno (Nov 9, 2014)

That's what I wanted to know you got a nice journal,I skipped some pages but thought sure I read the first1. Thanks again!.


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## janiking (Nov 9, 2014)

Sick grow man


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## ULEN (Nov 9, 2014)

If you grow in a small medium first it allows you to grow a strong rootball.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 9, 2014)

*Day 75 Update - Day 50 Flower*

There are a few plants that are starting to look close (I think). Took the loupe to about 5 or 6 plants and I found 2 that have an amber trich here and there....Northern Lights and Flowerbomb Kush. Also found what I think might have been a nanner. Wasn't sure so I dug it out and removed it.

Starting to get some wonderful colors on the buds and some of the leaves are also starting to turn color. A little yellowing, browning, spotting, purpling here and there.
Northern Lights and Flowerbomb Kush might end up being 8 week plants but too early to know for sure.

Smells are starting to get more pronounced...more defined.

The following pictures are just kind of random.


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 9, 2014)

wow bro them girls are changing every time i see them Is that purple i see on some of them also great work on the photos that new camera is doing a great job
awesome work not long now


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## JetDro (Nov 9, 2014)

Thats what I'm talking about.................................DAMN BRO................lol.........lol..................

Had not looked in a while, been busy doing my stuff.................WOW!! KILLER!!! LOVE IT!!! In fact, gonna copy it...........lol..........BUT,
I was right with you on the idea as I have a "mini" fleet myself................PALES next your yours, but a nice mini "mini" none the less.......6 weeks in
or a bit more, so started about your time..........Certainly before I saw your thread. 

Without digging too much..............how tall are they? They look like mine, lol............Cute lil buggers......................


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 9, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> wow bro them girls are changing every time i see them Is that purple i see on some of them also great work on the photos that new camera is doing a great job
> awesome work not long now


Yep...Some new colors here and there. I went and read the breeders description on the flowerbomb kush (very last picture) and I think she might finish up soon. She matches the breeders description to a tee and claims 8 weeks so we'll see.

They are really starting to swell and pack on the resin


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 9, 2014)

JetDro said:


> Thats what I'm talking about.................................DAMN BRO................lol.........lol..................
> 
> Had not looked in a while, been busy doing my stuff.................WOW!! KILLER!!! LOVE IT!!! In fact, gonna copy it...........lol..........BUT,
> I was right with you on the idea as I have a "mini" fleet myself................PALES next your yours, but a nice mini "mini" none the less.......6 weeks in
> ...


I have a large variance in height. I'll have to measure tomorrow to confirm but the shortest is 16" and the tallest is 44". They are currently in 4 height groups.
If you are interested, view page #17 has all of my posts about how I organized them into these 4 different categories by height.


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 9, 2014)

Yeah the last couple of weeks always amaze me on how much they change! i went to see my brother the other day and had a look at how his plants are going and his really got lazy i feel sorry for him he just likes to set and forget but now that his growing in a tent his really stuffing things up every time he see mine he rages and im only on my 4th grow and his been growing for years

he was only doing 2 plants in 3 gallon pots in a small closet and pulling from 12 - 16 oz from 1 600 watt
now his got 2 x 600 watts and pulling the same.... oh well he will work it out one day


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 9, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> Yeah the last couple of weeks always amaze me on how much they change! i went to see my brother the other day and had a look at how his plants are going and his really got lazy i feel sorry for him he just likes to set and forget but now that his growing in a tent his really stuffing things up every time he see mine he rages and im only on my 4th grow and his been growing for years
> 
> he was only doing 2 plants in 3 gallon pots in a small closet and pulling from 12 - 16 oz from 1 600 watt
> now his got 2 x 600 watts and pulling the same.... oh well he will work it out one day


Hopefully you can inspire him to do better 

So as I may or may not have mentioned, this is my first grow since the mid 90's...before the internet was mature and what not. One thing I know for sure as of today is that in all the years I grew back then, I never ever let them mature. Based on what I'm seeing now, I know for a fact that I always harvested early. Back then, what did we have? Nothing but books. No forums. No instant pictures and sharing them with people all over the world in real time.


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 9, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Hopefully you can inspire him to do better
> 
> So as I may or may not have mentioned, this is my first grow since the mid 90's...before the internet was mature and what not. One thing I know for sure as of today is that in all the years I grew back then, I never ever let them mature. Based on what I'm seeing now, I know for a fact that I always harvested early. Back then, what did we have? Nothing but books. No forums. No instant pictures and sharing them with people all of the world in real time.



Yeah that's right now with all the information out there you can pull off a great grow if you do your research from forums to utube as my mum always said sharing is caring make life so much easier then just winging it and hoping for the best

it's great that so many people share knowledge is power

Yes i remember in the 90s i could look at a porn mag and get turned on lol now thanks to super fast internet i need videos as photos just don't cut it anymore 

PS: if my missus read this post no love i don't watch porn


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 9, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> Yeah that's right now with all the information out there you can pull off a great grow if you do your research from forums to utube as my mum always said sharing is caring make life so much easier then just winging it and hoping for the best
> 
> it's great that so many people share knowledge is power
> 
> ...


"PS: if my missus read this post no love i don't watch porn"
LOL


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## catfishclyde (Nov 11, 2014)

I can't wait for this to be done to see how your yields are.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 11, 2014)

Thanks Cat...me too! I'm going to have what looks to be a pretty big range in what the yields will be. I will document the rest of the grow very thoroughly.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 11, 2014)

*Day 77 Update - Day 52 Flower*

This is a minor update on Dinafem Seeds Critical Cheese.
2 days ago I found what I suspected was a nanner I carefully removed it and now, 2 days later, 3 more popped up. I very carefully removed them but am now pretty sure I should harvest (thanks everyone in the problems forum that helped me out)

The breeder claims this is a 55 to 60 day strain so I suppose this is not too terribly early.
 

See the carnage of the fan leaf I cut off today? Pretty cool...a flesh wound...lol
 


That little nanner bastard is below. Found 2 others and removed them.


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## sky rocket (Nov 11, 2014)

Dope ass pics. Since you got some good info on the strains you are growing what will be next for 2nd round?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 11, 2014)

sky rocket said:


> Dope ass pics. Since you got some good info on the strains you are growing what will be next for 2nd round?


Thanks man...too early to know. There are several that will yield well in a tiny amount of space but if they smoke poorly then they are out.


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## catfishclyde (Nov 11, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Thanks man...too early to know. There are several that will yield well in a tiny amount of space but if they smoke poorly then they are out.


Which strain do you think is going to yield the most just based on what you are observing at this point? Quality if smoke not taken into effect.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 11, 2014)

catfishclyde said:


> Which strain do you think is going to yield the most just based on what you are observing at this point? Quality if smoke not taken into effect.


That's a great question and honestly...I don't know!

The critical jack herer and Chronic Thunder each have a top cola that is about 12" long. They seem like they are going to take longer to finish and are not as fat as some of the others.

Many of the other strains have a nice fat top cola but it is only 5 to 7 inches tall. Some of the really plump ones are:
Skunk #1, Northern Lights, Flowerbomb Kush.

Then some are a little longer but not quite as fat such as:
Cheese, Blue Cheese and others.

I'll try and get some more profile shots soon again.
Density is probably going to make or break some of these.

Will be interesting to see, that's for sure.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 12, 2014)

*Day 78 Update - Day 53 Flower*

Harvest day for the 1st plant! But it's not the critical cheese. I checked on her all day and not a sign of nanner's so I'm rolling the dice and giving her a few more days.
I made a spreadsheet of all of the strains and their expected finish times and as it turns out, there are a bunch that could finish at the 56 day mark so I had to pull everything out and take the loupe to a lot of plants tonight. One of the G13 Haze's was shootin nanners too...sucks. These were a little different in that they were deeper in the bud and more difficult to see. I decided to rip out what I could see and harvest her. I have two G13 Haze and this one was the 3" pot. Smaller but further along than the other.

*Here are the specs on her:*

*Strain*: Barneys Farm Seeds G13 Haze
*Flowering Time*: 70 to 80 Days
*Aroma*: Ripe fruits and earthy tones
*THC*: 21%
*CBD*: 0.7%

I'm going to have to call bullshit on the flowering time. I know I had to take her early but 17 to 27 days early? Very doubtful. Most of her calyxes were pretty swolen. The trich's I saw appeared to all be clear still but 70 to 80 days? Hopefully the one remaining will answer that.

*Total Height*: 16.5 inches - The shortest plant in the grow
*Top Cola Length*: 4 Inches
*Total Bud Sites*: 3 - Top cola and 2 lower sites.

Before I cut her down
 

*Post-Trim*

Middle bud site directly beneath top cola
 


Top cola
  

She certainly will not be much of a yielder and I'm bummed that I took her early but that's ok.

And finally, a couple of tent shots:


----------



## catfishclyde (Nov 12, 2014)

man that tent shot is a beautiful sight!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 12, 2014)

I have not trimmed a bud since the mid 90's. Wow is this shit sticky. After looking at other peoples beautifully manicured buds I thought I would give a close trim a try and see how I do. I think I always left too much on. It's a shame that I don't have the gear or knowledge to make hash from the sugar leaves but I'll tell my wife if we run out of duct tape just grab some sugar leaves...lol


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 12, 2014)

Anybody care to guess on the weight of the 1st girl?
She seemed to be only moderately dense so she could dry light but I'm going to guess about 1 pound.

lol...haha...jk. My real guess is 4.5 grams.


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 13, 2014)

Keep all the leaves and put them in the freezer till everything has finished 

buy some bubblebags from ebay and make some hash it's really easy full videos on youtube showing you how to do it


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 13, 2014)

*Day 79 Update - Day 54 Flower*

2 plants came down this morning.
#14 - Strain Hunters Seedbank Seeds Flowerbomb Kush (4" Pot)
#20 - Dinafem Seeds Critical Cheese (3" Pot)

After giving most of the other plants a close look, I don't expect to be harvesting anything else until next week probably.

Yesterday I started feeding the plants at 25% strength. I just decided that I did not want to risk an imbalance by reducing some and not others. So their diet is balanced but just reduced. I'm not sold on flushing so instead I will simply continue to feed but at lower amounts.

I have more than 10 pictures so this will be in a few posts.

First up, some side by sides before and then after trim.
Critical Cheese on the left and Flowerbomb Kush on the right. I ran out of time and so I'll have to go back tonight or tomorrow and trim a little closer.


----------



## BobBitchen (Nov 13, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Day 79 Update - Day 54 Flower*
> 
> 2 plants came down this morning.
> #14 - Strain Hunters Seedbank Seeds Flowerbomb Kush (4" Pot)
> ...


very nice.... 
looks dank


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 13, 2014)

*Day 79 Update - Day 54 Flower - Part 2*
*
Strain*: Strain Hunters Seedbank Seeds Flowerbomb Kush (Green Crack x OG Kush)
70% indica - 30% sativa
*Flowering Time*: 8 Weeks
*Characteristics*: Taste (burned): earthy, fruity, sweet. Scent (unburned): very kushy, earthy, orange, rose, with some warmer, spicier background.
Indica 1st then sativa afterwards...complex
*THC*: Unknown
*CBD*: Unknown
*Total Height*: 18 inches - Among the shortest plants in the grow
*Top Cola Length*: 5 Inches

This plant is straight up gnarly. Heavy thick leaves. The colors over the last week got deep purple...almost black in some cases.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 13, 2014)

*Day 79 Update - Day 54 Flower - Part 3*
*
Strain*: Dinafem Seeds Critical Cheese
65% sativa, 35% indica
*Flowering Time*: 55 to 60 days
*Characteristics*: Fruity lemon, pine, perfume, cheese
*THC*: 19%
*CBD*: 0.3%
*Total Height*: 23 inches
*Top Cola Length*: 7 Inches

This plant is really quite pretty and smells lovely. This is the one that I started finding a few nanners on the other day. She has some ambers and a lot of milky trich's so she looked plenty good enough to take down.


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 13, 2014)

That is sex on a stick right there unreal that new camera really dose them justest i am sure they look better in person but it don't get much better then that 

its like a hightimes cover


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## elteejay (Nov 14, 2014)

wow, those are some top notch pictures 

thanks for this wonderful journal


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 14, 2014)

*Day 80 Update - Day 55 Flower*

Pretty minor update tonight. The 1st plant that came down was the G13 haze and she was quite small. The outer room is running between 61 and 64 degrees and right around 40% RH. After hanging for 48 hours she is starting to get a little drier than I had hoped. Was hoping the cooler temps would slow down the rate of dry.

At any rate, I'm trying to paper bag wrap to see how she looks in the morning. Nothing new was harvested so 3 down, 23 to go.

Critical Kush on the left and back. These 2 are pretty nice. Headband to the right...she is a big disappointment. Will be a terrible yielder.
 

Just some groups pictures in the dark out of the tent. There are going to be some real gems with some of these. Some of them really suck too...kind of a 50/50 split.


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## ASMALLVOICE (Nov 15, 2014)

Incredible Work M8  

I am a day or so away from taking my Afghan Kush and then a week later, I am taking the Green Love Potion as well. The Tangerine Dream is a 70+ day strain and the Blackberry is an 10-11 week plant, but I do not mind, I want some more speed weed 

Many Thanx for the sharing those badass buds. 

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice


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## dluck (Nov 15, 2014)

Nice grow HDS...sorry to read about your dad...my condolences.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 16, 2014)

Update on the 1st plant that taken...the G13 Haze. She's been hanging for 3 1/2 days and I've since taken her down and placed her into a small jar with the lid off and wrapped a small brown paper bag tightly around her to sweat for a bit. I couldn't wait so I went ahead and weighed her... 6.4 Grams! I was shocked it was that much. She does not look like a 1/4 to me so she probably still has a lot of water weight. The final weigh-in will be when she enters the cure and is stable at the 60-65% RH point.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 16, 2014)

She looks pretty frosty for being as immature as she was. Breeder info says 70 to 80 days but I had to take her at day 53 because of a few nanners. She was also the smallest plant both in height and estimated yield out of all plants so this initial weigh-in is promising.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 16, 2014)

ASMALLVOICE said:


> Incredible Work M8
> 
> I am a day or so away from taking my Afghan Kush and then a week later, I am taking the Green Love Potion as well. The Tangerine Dream is a 70+ day strain and the Blackberry is an 10-11 week plant, but I do not mind, I want some more speed weed
> 
> ...


I just took a close look at my Green Love Potion for the 1st time...she is doing great!


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 17, 2014)

*Day 83 Update - Day 58 Flower*

Not too much to report. The 1st 3 plants are doing great drying. The cold temps are definitely slowing down the dry despite the 40% RH. I've been using the paper bag technique on and off as I think necessary to try and further slow down and even out the drying. The G13 just went into a sealed jar for a while...I'll check RH levels on her and see how she's doing.

The remaining plants seem to be stalled but then again I see them every day. As I compare pictures I can see they are still progressing. Many of them look done to me but they all still have clear trich's so I'm trying to be patient.

Some of the plants were showing signs of nitrogen toxicity so I'm watering with PH water only for the time being.


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 17, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Day 83 Update - Day 58 Flower*
> 
> Not too much to report. The 1st 3 plants are doing great drying. The cold temps are definitely slowing down the dry despite the 40% RH. I've been using the paper bag technique on and off as I think necessary to try and further slow down and even out the drying. The G13 just went into a sealed jar for a while...I'll check RH levels on her and see how she's doing.
> 
> ...



Your kicking ass bro them girls are loving life and still packing on weight every time i see them its unreal some of them must be as hard as a rock

the girls can get a little touchy at the end of there life and too much food will stress some stains out anyway looking forward to the next update


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 17, 2014)

*Day 83 Update - Day 58 Flower - Minor Update
*
Gave the girls a thorough watering with PH'd only water tonight and discovered a minimum of 2 will be ready for harvest in the morning right when lights come on.

One of the Skunk #1's and the Critical Sensi Star. Both look incredible and I will take numerous shots during harvest of them. There are at least 6 other plants that look to be done that I could harvest but I'm going to wait because I'm still seeing nothing but clear trich's on them. Come morning I will inspect again closely.


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## JetDro (Nov 17, 2014)

I ALWAYS take them down in the dark.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 17, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> Your kicking ass bro them girls are loving life and still packing on weight every time i see them its unreal some of them must be as hard as a rock
> 
> the girls can get a little touchy at the end of there life and too much food will stress some stains out anyway looking forward to the next update


In the 1st and 2nd tent shot from earlier today, that big meat-hogger in the front left is the Chronic Thunder!


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 17, 2014)

JetDro said:


> I ALWAYS take them down in the dark.


Wacha mean exactly? Right at the end of their dark cycle?


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## JetDro (Nov 17, 2014)

No....
Before the light is on...
I ALWAYS chop at night.....
and ALWAYS give then 4 days straight dark period before the chop......

Try sometime.......you will see for yiurself.....


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 17, 2014)

JetDro said:


> No....
> Before the light is on...
> I ALWAYS chop at night.....
> and ALWAYS give then 4 days straight dark period before the chop......
> ...


4 days huh? Wow, that seems like a lot. What is their hydration state at the end of 4 days? At 36 hours of no water they are wilted from thirst.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 17, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> 4 days huh? Wow, that seems like a lot. What is their hydration state at the end of 4 days? At 36 hours of no water they are wilted from thirst.


Edit: I mispoke: What I meant was, at 72 hours (3 days) they are wilted. And I only know this because I missed watering one not long ago and she was badly wilted at 3 days.


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 17, 2014)

My brother has tried the darkness well he went away for 5 days and just left them in the dark as he didn't want to run the lights when he was away said the resin when he got back was insane but then again most of the time he talks shit! lol so who knows


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 17, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> My brother has tried the darkness well he went away for 5 days and just left them in the dark as he didn't want to run the lights when he was away said the resin when he got back was insane but then again most of the time he talks shit! lol so who knows


Ive heard of people doing this and I've read a little but it seems unnatural so I did not put too much into it. Jet...care to share your thoughts on exactly why you do this? Have you done side by sides (plant A harvested at 64 days under normal conditions and plant B put into darkness at day 60) to compare? What are your thoughts in general on why you do this?


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## JetDro (Nov 17, 2014)

In my hydro I run 3 5 day dry spells....one at day 14....one at day 35 .....and then the 4 day at the end.

I WANT them burning up EVERYTHING...my plants have no issues going dry for 5 days...
B UT....I'm in dro.....have, HUGE 4 FOOT LONG ROOTS......THE big root ball holds enough moisture for the dry spell


It cranks them up.........I have run side Cabs and saw the difference


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 17, 2014)

JetDro said:


> In my hydro I run 3 5 day dry spells....one at day 14....one at day 35 .....and then the 4 day at the end.
> 
> I WANT them burning up EVERYTHING...my plants have no issues going dry for 5 days...
> B UT....I'm in dro.....have, HUGE 4 FOOT LONG ROOTS......THE big root ball holds enough moisture for the dry spell
> ...


Very interesting man....very interesting. Have you found that the percentage of clear/cloudy/amber is affected all that much doing this?


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## JetDro (Nov 17, 2014)

the reason I do it is it's an old trick to get the maximum amount of air into the roots before I blast them with high ppm newts


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## JetDro (Nov 17, 2014)

once they go through the 5-day dry spell then I whack them with high ppm nudes and they go nuts


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## JetDro (Nov 17, 2014)

the four-day dark at the end is to get rid of all the water she has and bring the resin production up they will actually try in coat their leaves to keep them from burning


----------



## JetDro (Nov 17, 2014)

they're just stupid plants we are a lot smarter than them


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## JetDro (Nov 17, 2014)

4 day night at the chop is to use up ALL remaining reserves, get rid of AS MUCH WATER as possible...........
They WILL also create more goo.............natural reaction.................try to coat the leaves in resin to prevent burning or wind damage............

YES.........run side by side................25 years ago...................been doing it this way since..................


----------



## ayr0n (Nov 18, 2014)

JetDro said:


> they're just stupid plants we are a lot smarter than them


How dare you :O

@Hot Diggity Sog those are looking amazing man. U got a lot of trimming in your near future - better stay away from @DirtyNerd 's 90's mags n get your wrists prepared lol


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 18, 2014)

ayr0n said:


> How dare you :O
> 
> @Hot Diggity Sog those are looking amazing man. U got a lot of trimming in your near future - better stay away from @DirtyNerd 's 90's mags n get your wrists prepared lol


Haha...yeah I know I do...the best and worst part of the experience. Thanks man...I'm really pleased with how things are turning out. I've been keeping tabs on yours too and it won't be long til they start budding...they look amazing.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 18, 2014)

*Day 84 Update - Day 59 Flower*

5 plants came down today. Both Skunk #1's, both Northern Lights and the Critical Sensi Star.
CORRECTION: The plants that came down were Skunk #1, Critical Kush and Critical Sensi Star.

First, a couple of group shots of the 5




And some more shots after the preliminary trim

     

I've decided to save all of the specs such as total height, cola height, etc. until the end when I can include dry pictures and weight.

Tent is starting to show some nice autumn colors. Lots of purple/browns going on. From here on out I'll check daily and see what looks to be ready. I'm trying to harvest near or right before their peak. I'm trying to not get much amber but I am trying to wait until I see some amber as an indication they are ready or near ready. These 5 all had plenty of amber...maybe 5 to 10%. I'm having difficulty distinguishing between clear and cloudy.


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 18, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Day 84 Update - Day 59 Flower*
> 
> 5 plants came down today. Both Skunk #1's, both Northern Lights and the Critical Sensi Star.
> 
> ...


beautiful great colors and super frosty great job


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 18, 2014)

With these first 8, I'm seeing a lot of variance in the quality beneath the top cola. For example, on one of the Skunk #1's, every single bud site beneath the top cola sucked. For the other 7 plants, it has varied a lot. The critical cheese, for example, had bud sites that were awesome. Every single one except for the 2 buds sitting on top of the coco were keepers.

Any bud site that is either too airy or too small is being thrown onto the drying rack and will ultimately go into one big jar and will not be counted or weighed. This jar will become the variety jar...should be fun. As a stoned Forest Gump might say, life is like a jar of buds...you never know what you're gunna get.


----------



## JetDro (Nov 18, 2014)

AWESOME............Those were finished very well sir!!! Gonna have a lot of different quality smoke. Your gonna LOVe having variety..........
Good job on the trim too!!!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 18, 2014)

JetDro said:


> AWESOME............Those were finished very well sir!!! Gonna have a lot of different quality smoke. Your gonna LOVe having variety..........
> Good job on the trim too!!!


I'm taking your advice and not trimming too close on the 1st pass. Leaving some material to slow the dry down.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 18, 2014)

sky rocket said:


> Is your critical cheese by Dinafem? And throught the whole 12/12 it's all been flowered under your 600?


Yep...
#20 - Dinafem Seeds Critical Cheese
65% sativa, 35% indica
Fruity lemon, pine, perfume, cheese
55 to 60 days
THC: 19%
CBD: 0.3%

And yes, I've run the 600 the entire time. I got a little OCD with switching between HPS and MH and I ultimately decided that I wanted to see how the MH performed. Thru 84 days, the HPS was only on for 17 days total (if I remember correctly).


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 19, 2014)

*Day 85 Update - Day 60 Flower*

Harvested the Bubble Seeds Bubble Bomb tonight. Pretty poor showing from her. She seemed overly nutrient sensitive and is pretty small. Smells lovely though.
I have the first official weigh-in's.

The G13 Haze comes in at 4.9 Grams. She is the one that I had to take super early because of nanners and was the smallest plant.
The Critical Cheese comes in at 12.7 Grams...I am extremely pleased with this one.

Bubble Bomb before I chopped her:
 


And here are some other random shots with a coke can for size reference:

  


And finally one of the Skunk #1's Top Cola hanging:


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 19, 2014)

Always coca cola best coke ad I've ever seen 

Ahhh i really want a stain that changes color they look so good the frost on them girls is insane my jack is not frosty makes me rage

the bubblegum makes up for it Looking great as always they are all coming down one by one you are really going to have some great smoke on your hands make sure you label them all looking forward to the smoke report wish i was there to enjoy it with you


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 19, 2014)

The 1st shot with the coke can is the 2nd Flowerbomb kush. She's not as gnarly as the 1st one but she's foxtailing bad now. Very weird plant...almost mutant.


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 19, 2014)

I want that Bubble Bomb it looks awesome


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## ASMALLVOICE (Nov 20, 2014)

Freaking Sweet M8   

Looks yummy indeed.  Killer frosty, sticky, oooey, gooey and a bag of chips! 

Many Thanx for the Bud Porn. 

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 20, 2014)

*Day 86 Update - Day 61 Flower*

I'm going to have a very large set of updates for tonight. I harvested around 1/2 of the remaining plants. A f ew of these are simply amazing...no other words I can use to describe them. I hope my camera does them justice. There are still 9 or 10 plants left and I have saved what I think are the best ones for last. I have to leave town for a few days in a few days so I will be harvesting the final group sometime next week. I hope the ones that I think will be the best will prove me right


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 20, 2014)

*Sensi Seeds Silver Haze #9*
31" Tall
7" Cola
Not very dense
INSANE Resin. This is the most resinous plant I have ever seen in person. Hope the pictures will do her justice. I couldn't bring myself to even trim the sugar leaves closely the resin is so caked on them.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 20, 2014)

*Delicious Seeds Critical Jack Herer*
41" Tall
6" Cola

All of the lower sites are keepers..pretty cool since the really low stuff got zero light.


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## sky rocket (Nov 20, 2014)

Hey were the weights on the girls were after they were dried right? I had a feeling your critical cheese would probably weight the most based on your pic before you chopped her. During your 12/12 grow did most of your grows have a minimum side branching? Did you have any issues where you had to remove any side branches?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 20, 2014)

*Barneys Farm Seeds Blue Cheese*
25" Tall
5 1/2" Cola
All of the lower bud sites are keepers. Even the buds that are all the way at the bottom just barely above the coco...lol


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 20, 2014)

sky rocket said:


> Hey were the weights on the girls were after they were dried right? I had a feeling your critical cheese would probably weight the most based on your pic before you chopped her. During your 12/12 grow did most of your grows have a minimum side branching? Did you have any issues where you had to remove any side branches?


Side branching was not a problem at all. A few plants had some branching but they grew straight up, not out to the sides. Most did not have any branching at all.
I've only got reported weights on two so far but they are correct. 12.7 on the critical cheese..she will be a top 5 yielder most likely.

Yeah...weights were taken after a 5 to 6 day dry, followed by a 1 day sweat, and then another 12 hour dry...once they are stable at 60 to 65% RH in the jar I feel comfortable reporting weights.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 20, 2014)

*Reserva Privada Sour Kush AKA Headband*
40" Tall
6" Cola
Dense but small. Very stretchy...not too many bud sites.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 20, 2014)

*KC Brains Northern Lights Special*
30" Tall
4" Cola
Very fat and dense. Excellent resin. All of the lower bud sites are keepers.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 20, 2014)

I'll post the rest in the morning...gotta go to bed.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 21, 2014)

*Barneys Farm Seeds Red Dragon*
21" Tall
4 1/2" Cola
Medium size...lower bud sites are good keepers


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 21, 2014)

*Barneys Farm Seeds Top Dawg*
29" Tall
4" Cola
Very dense but a little on the smallish side. Very sweet smell.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 21, 2014)

*Bomb Seeds Bubble Bomb*
29" Tall
6" Cola
Much better than the other Bubble Bomb. Lower bud sites are all keepers.


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## ASMALLVOICE (Nov 21, 2014)

Sweet Bud Porn in the Mornin' 

Killer Grow M8. Frosty indeed 

Try and find a darker ( black) backdrop and take some pics, really helps show the flowers.

Many Thanx for the Show 

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice


----------



## GroErr (Nov 21, 2014)

Wow, nice pics and stash from that SOG, great job Hot Diggity!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 21, 2014)

Thanks! the *real* SOG experiment will be my next attempt before moving onto a SCROG for comparison.
One strain, either 9 or 16 per sq/ft.


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 21, 2014)

Awesome! the hash you will pack from them frosty buds is going to be awesome looking forward to the rest getting there chop 

Hows the others that have been drying for a couple of days ... ?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 21, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> Awesome! the hash you will pack from them frosty buds is going to be awesome looking forward to the rest getting there chop
> 
> Hows the others that have been drying for a couple of days ... ?


Drying pretty slowly which is good. I'm afraid I *might* have overdried the Critical Cheese. I put a few wet stems in last night for 2 hours and removed them as the RH read 60%. They dont smell like hay at all which is good but I might have blown the cure...not sure yet. Stuff seems to be taking 6 days before a sweat is needed so thats pretty slow based on what Im used to.


----------



## DirtyNerd (Nov 21, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Drying pretty slowly which is good. I'm afraid I *might* have overdried the Critical Cheese. I put a few wet stems in last night for 2 hours and removed them as the RH read 60%. They dont smell like hay at all which is good but I might have blown the cure...not sure yet. Stuff seems to be taking 6 days before a sweat is needed so thats pretty slow based on what Im used to.



Yeah 6 days is a long time they say the slower the better i normal just do the hang for 3 days then sweat then hang in nets then start the cure 

I would say your Cheese will be fine once you sweat her and just let her cure and will give her the favor back when any luck!


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 21, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> Yeah 6 days is a long time they say the slower the better i normal just do the hang for 3 days then sweat then hang in nets then start the cure
> 
> I would say your Cheese will be fine once you sweat her and just let her cure and will give her the favor back when any luck!


I hope so. I'm used to 3 days leaving the outside crispy and ready for a sweat. So the cold temps I have are definitely helping slow the dry down which is great. Lights just came on...temps in the room are 57 degrees at 39% RH. Later on after the light has warmed the room up a little, temps will be 61 to 64 and RH probably around 40-41% so despite the low RH%, the cold temps are slowing things down.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 21, 2014)

The critical cheese smells amazing...nothing like what a quick dried bud would smell like so I'm not too worried.


----------



## DirtyNerd (Nov 21, 2014)

Yeah drying when it's cold sucks takes so much longer need a heater going in your room soon if temps keep dropping


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 21, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> Yeah drying when it's cold sucks takes so much longer need a heater going in your room soon if temps keep dropping


With my RH so low, you dont think I have any risk of mold do you? The room they are drying in is the same room the tent is in...17 feet x 13 feet and this room has a 750 CFM carbon filtered exhaust so the room is getting ample air exchange (I would think)


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## Mainlinekush (Nov 21, 2014)

That cheese looked fantastic they all do brother. Excellent bag appeal on all those girls. You definitely got some variety now


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 21, 2014)

Mainlinekush said:


> That cheese looked fantastic they all brother. Excellent bag appeal on all those girls. You definitely got some variety now


Thanks kush...samples of all of these go out to my blind taste testers for judging. After that I'll see how things are looking...need the right balance of quality and the 12/12 characteristics im looking for.


----------



## Mainlinekush (Nov 21, 2014)

I want to be a blind tester lol


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## JetDro (Nov 21, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> Yeah 6 days is a long time they say the slower the better i normal just do the hang for 3 days then sweat then hang in nets then start the cure
> 
> I would say your Cheese will be fine once you sweat her and just let her cure and will give her the favor back when any luck!




I am drying a crap load as we speak...............I leave leaf on to FORCE a 6-7 day slow dry. Buds are better that way, no real CURE is needed at that point,
a simple 1 or 2 day sweat, your done.

My 6 mini's......14-19 inches tall...........dried PERFECT in 5 1/2 days...........and these were "mini's. The bigger Lemon Haze, LSD, and Nevelle's, a mite larger, 
are still hanging............will let them go another 1-2 days before I trim and jar those. 

Right now I'm smoking 5 1/2 day dry Widow.....................IT IS VERY GOOD...............and tastes well too!!!! 

You will be just fine...................trust me.......................you will see.


----------



## JetDro (Nov 21, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Thanks kush...samples of all of these go out to my blind taste testers for judging. After that I'll see how things are looking...need the right balance of quality and the 12/12 characteristics im looking for.



That is what I need............VERY cool. We are TOO CLOSE to be impartial.........I have always said this. I wish I had a "test team"


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 21, 2014)

Ya know, I think you're right Dro. I'm used to 3 day drys, then a sweat, then a jar and they go in smelling like hay.

The critical cheese did 6 day dry, 1 day sweat and he might be over dried but does NOT smell like hay so I agree with what you said.


----------



## JetDro (Nov 21, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Ya know, I think you're right Dro. I'm used to 3 day drys, then a sweat, then a jar and they go in smelling like hay.
> 
> The critical cheese did 6 day dry, 1 day sweat and he might be over dried but does NOT smell like hay so I agree with what you said.



What you have to understand is that was a "general " rule I gave you. Correct, but general. 

My BIG LADIES, they WILL take 7 days or better to dry that way. YOUR little ones, 4 days or so, maybe 5 would do it.
By leaving on some leaf you give yourself some cushion. You NEED to feel the TOP bud every day, and pull it off the hanger when
it is FIRM, not spongy, BUT NOT crunchy..............Firm to the squeeze, not soft feeling, and not so dry anything breaks when you do this. 

Like I said my 1/2 oz Widows took 5 days or so. The S.S, slightly bigger, are still hanging, I will check them tomorrow night after work. 

You GOT IT RIGHT when: After the hang, you can trim the Buds tight, and can smoke a small portion of a Bud, and it will burn correctly. 
Trim them close, put into a jar to seat a day or two in the dark cool area, open for 1/2 a day..............YOUR DONE!!!

The weed should smell "fresh", but not like hay...........that means it is wet still. IT will have about 65 % of it's final smell when it is hung dry correctly.
My Widow I'm burning right now smells excellent...............in jar 1 day!! 

Keep practicing, you will "learn" the "feel" of the Bud when it is "right" ...............then it will become second nature........................



So...........just how many different Girls do you have to sample now???? At the moment I have like 3............but that is about to change.....................


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 21, 2014)

The only 2 that are smokable are the critical cheese and the G13 haze that was taken very early. When I return from my trip I will take my first sampling. A bunch more will be ready early next week.


----------



## JetDro (Nov 21, 2014)

Looking forward to a smoke report..............................................


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 21, 2014)

I almost forgot the flowerbomb kush...that nasty thing still has not dried. So thick with resin and crazy thick leaves.


----------



## sky rocket (Nov 21, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Thanks! the *real* SOG experiment will be my next attempt before moving onto a SCROG for comparison.
> One strain, either 9 or 16 per sq/ft.


No comparison when you are trying to turnover crops......sog wins.....I'm too impatient to scrog. But can't wait for your scrog.....


----------



## sky rocket (Nov 21, 2014)

Mainlinekush said:


> That cheese looked fantastic they all do brother. Excellent bag appeal on all those girls. You definitely got some variety now


You will be the real ice cream truck man with so many flavors....lol


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 21, 2014)

sky rocket said:


> You will be the real ice cream truck man with so many flavors....lol


Lets just hope they aren't all vanilla.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 21, 2014)

Well...I leave for my dad's service tomorrow morning bright and early at 4 AM. Will be returning Sunday afternoon. Gave the girls a very heavy watering tonight with 20% strength nutes. They should have no problem while I'm gone. Several of the final 8 or 9 left are going to be badass...can't wait until chop day and I get to share pics.


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 21, 2014)

All the best with tomorrow bro i hope you have a safe flight and your dad gets a good send off all the best for you and your family


----------



## DirtyNerd (Nov 21, 2014)

Hey bro 

Update: on the AK48 

Seed opened today and i have just transplanted in to a Jiffy as i was out of rockwool 
Never started a seed in a Jiffy before so hopefully it will be okay! once i see root's will transplant in to the 3/4 Gallon pot then will see how she goes on the 12/12


----------



## sky rocket (Nov 23, 2014)

Dirtynerd I just germed about 15 beans and will try the 12/12 from seed test as well.


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 23, 2014)

sky rocket said:


> Dirtynerd I just germed about 15 beans and will try the 12/12 from seed test as well.


Awesome bro yeah i am doing this for diggity as he is thinking about growing it 

Are you starting a log bro... ?


----------



## sky rocket (Nov 24, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> Awesome bro yeah i am doing this for diggity as he is thinking about growing it
> 
> Are you starting a log bro... ?


No journal til the end of December. I'll keep ya posted. I'm doing this before I start my real grow in December. What strain(s) are you using?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 24, 2014)

I'm back guys. Had a really nice visit despite why I was back home. Got to see some family and friends I had not in seen in several years.
The girls made it fine while I was gone including the ones hanging...was afraid they might overdry but they didnt. Should have an update tonight.


----------



## DirtyNerd (Nov 24, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I'm back guys. Had a really nice visit despite why I was back home. Got to see some family and friends I had not in seen in several years.
> The girls made it fine while I was gone including the ones hanging...was afraid they might overdry but they didnt. Should have an update tonight.


Great to hear your back safe mate looking forward to the update


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 24, 2014)

*Day 90 Update - Day 65 Flower*
Chopped 4 more tonight. Forgot to double check how many are remaining...pretty sure we have 5 left.

First up. Chronic Thunder!
30" Tall
5" Main cola
All lower bud sites are good. Smells like perfume.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 24, 2014)

*Next up: Connoisseur Genetics Seeds East Coast Sour Diesel Haze*
38" Tall
7" Main cola
Very airy development but the calyxes are super swollen. Bud sites directly under the cola are good but everything beneath that is junk...not even worthy of the mix-n-match jar.
This is the plant that looked to be enormous in many of the tent pictures...she was typically standing over on the left and in front. Pictures can definitely be deceiving sometimes.


----------



## sky rocket (Nov 24, 2014)

Dam c.t, stretched straight up.........


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 24, 2014)

*Next up: KC Brains Northern Lights Special*
22" Tall
7-10" Main cola...depends on where you start counting.
Every single bud site is good. Even the crap right above the coco is keeper and not going into the mix-n-match jar.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 24, 2014)

*Finally: Seedism Seeds Cheese*
26" Tall
6" Main cola
This plant has the most amber out of any that I have taken. Hopefully some of the closeups will show off some of the color.
Most of the lower bud sites are worthless.

Here are 1/2 of the pictures...site is having trouble accepting uploads tonight.


----------



## bryleetch (Nov 24, 2014)

These plants are b-e-a-utiful!


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 24, 2014)

Well...I cannot upload the remaining Seedism Seeds Cheese pictures...site is not allowing it it would seem. Oh well, this plant kind of sucked anyway...very leafy.
I'm pleased to report that the cold temps have been perfect for drying. Most are taking 6 to 7 days before entering the jar and I'm already finding that I'm jarring them early. The nice slow dry is already bringing out the aromas. The only plant that I've screwed up so far is the Critical Cheese...blew the cure on her. But she smells DELICIOUS anyway...nothing like fast dry hay.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 24, 2014)

The 5 final plants will be coming down tomorrow including the 2 rock stars.
I'll also start taking some pics of curing buds...they are just absolutely gorgeous.


----------



## LetsGetCritical (Nov 24, 2014)

very very nice my friend


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 25, 2014)

*Seedism Seeds Cheese Continued*
I'll have to wait until she drys but as I trimmed her she is pretty poor. Very very leafy.
She is a tad bit overdone (I think). The last few pictures give you an idea of how much amber there is.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 25, 2014)

*Day 91 Update - Day 66 Flower*
Chopped 2 more plants this morning and the final 4 will be tonight. The remaining 4 can best be summarized as the Midget, the Mutant and the Twin Towers.
Also began jarring up some girls that were taken early last week. I'm super thrilled with how long they have been able to hang dry.

*First up, Barneys Farm Seeds Top Dawg*
26" Tall
7" Cola
Top cola is pretty fat but is leafy. In fact, nearly all of the Barney's Farm gear has similar traits. Fat gnarly sugar leaves that are everywhere. Not too desirable.


----------



## Mainlinekush (Nov 25, 2014)

Very nice brother the end is near. You gotta love the mutants they always surprise me.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 25, 2014)

*Next up, Barneys Farm Seeds G13 Haze*
22" Tall
8" Cola
This plant is unfortunately pre-mature. The breeder states 70 to 80 days and that's probably correct. I cannot wait that long unfortunately.
HUGE meaty top cola...easily the fatest one. A lot of the same nasty veg leaves that are hard to deal with.


----------



## JetDro (Nov 25, 2014)

Got your dry down now...can tell by what u posted today about the smell.....
Your getting it !!!!!

Good job bro.....


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 25, 2014)

*Day 91 Update - Day 66 Flower*
Chopped the final 4 plants this evening. I'm glad they are all down but I am already missing watching them grow.
I jarred up several plants including KC Brains Northern Lights Special, Sensi Seeds Silver Haze #9 and Delicious Seeds Critical Jack Herer among a few others. My GOD are some of these sticky. Especially the Silver Haze #9. My fingers are wrecked just from handling the stem and occasionally gently touching a bud to get it into the jar.

About the final four. One of them is the 2nd Chronic Thunder and as I set her up for the preliminary pre-trim photo shoot she fell. I was able to catch her but she was so top heavy that she could no longer stand on her own so I only have 3 pictures of her. I do apologize about this but I hope the 3 will do her justice. She is an absolute beast.

Onto the Final 4 Pics!

*Barneys Farm Seeds Chronic Thunder*
31" Tall
9" Top Cola
Very fat. More side branching than the 1st Chronic Thunder.


----------



## catfishclyde (Nov 25, 2014)

Any dry weights yet?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 25, 2014)

*Barneys Farm Seeds Red Dragon*
23" Tall
5" Top Cola
Pretty average overall. Lower bud sites were only so-so.
This is the plant that developed those spots early on which led me to think I had mites. Never found out exactly what this was but the general consensus was CalMag deficiencies.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 25, 2014)

catfishclyde said:


> Any dry weights yet?


Not yet but very soon. I have almost 1/2 jarred and as soon as they stabilize at or around 58%-62% I will weight and photograph them!


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 25, 2014)

*Delicious Seeds Critical Jack Herer*
43" Tall
9" - 12" Top Cola - depending on where you start counting
This plant is probably my favorite. A little on the tall side but just gorgeous. Very long cola, great bud sites, easy to trim, awesome smell.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 25, 2014)

And last but certainly not least:

*Samsara Seeds Green Love Potion*
29" Tall
11" Top Cola
Most of the lower bud sites were garbage. Top cola and buds directly underneath were good.


----------



## sky rocket (Nov 25, 2014)

Nice pics. Do you wet trim or hang first then dry trim? What's up next for your next run?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 25, 2014)

sky rocket said:


> Nice pics. Do you wet trim or hang first then dry trim? What's up next for your next run?


I trim all these as they are still in the pot. Try and get pretty close but I don't get too anal. Leave a little leaf material on to keep the rate of drying down. I try and hang the entire plant and then go in for a closer trim before hitting the jars. Not sure what's going to next for me. Going to wait for these to dry, send the samples out to some folks for blind judging and then take it from there.
As far as what I'm likely do to:

Assuming I have at least 1 suitable strain after the blind testing is to build a large hempy flower bed and try putting a large number of a single strain into the flower bed spaced either 3" or 4" apart and giving that a go.


----------



## Socalrob (Nov 25, 2014)

Some very nice plants you got here, are you going to do the next cup competition?. From what I see here you'd do well. Not much difference. I'm about to start some barneys liberty haze and LSD. Also some catatonic. If I'm flowering when the next cup comp starts I'll try again. Hope you post that flower bed, I'd like to see that.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 25, 2014)

Socalrob said:


> Some very nice plants you got here, are you going to do the next cup competition?. From what I see here you'd do well. Not much difference. I'm about to start some barneys liberty haze and LSD. Also some catatonic. If I'm flowering when the next cup comp starts I'll try again. Hope you post that flower bed, I'd like to see that.


Thanks man! Yeah, the pots I'm using are pretty small. The 3" pots are not that much larger than a solo cup...lol
As Winter approaches it's going to be too cold for me to start anything new until at least March so I'm just going to ponder what I've done, wait for the weigh-in's and smoke reports and then see if I want to pursue this technique or not. Let me ask you...as you grew that plant, had you had a shit load of those would you have been able to put the cups side by side? Or would the crowding have been a problem for you?


----------



## Socalrob (Nov 25, 2014)

I had the two final ones about 2 inches apart for quite a while and they seemed fine. My final entry if I had a lot I think they would have been able to do well crowded like that.


----------



## Cococola36 (Nov 25, 2014)

Nice job and witty name lol, I skimmed through the whole thread. very frosty! I almost ran a bunch of the strains you have listed and still have many seeds left so I seen some nice ones in your pics  You had wayyyyy better results with blue planet than i did, tried it and couldn't get the hang of it.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 26, 2014)

Cococola36 said:


> Nice job and witty name lol, I skimmed through the whole thread. very frosty! I almost ran a bunch of the strains you have listed and still have many seeds left so I seen some nice ones in your pics  You had wayyyyy better results with blue planet than i did, tried it and couldn't get the hang of it.


My first time using any real nutrient system. I found Blue Planet to be a little bit of a pain in the ass only because of how many parts I had to mix together. But all in all I was very happy with the results. I had numerous plants that still had their very first fan leaf nice and green.


----------



## JetDro (Nov 26, 2014)

NICE JOB BRO.......................Critical Jack would be MY winner..................assuming she smokes well...............
My Widow would embarrass all of them I believe......................you should try W.W. on next run. 


Smoke reports coming??????????


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 26, 2014)

JetDro said:


> NICE JOB BRO.......................Critical Jack would be MY winner..................assuming she smokes well...............
> My Widow would embarrass all of them I believe......................you should try W.W. on next run.
> 
> 
> Smoke reports coming??????????


Yeah, the top contenders pre-smoke report are probably:
Chronic Thunder
Critical Jack
Skunk #1
Northern Lights
Critical Cheese

Weights and smoke reports will be coming soon.


----------



## JetDro (Nov 26, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Yeah, the top contenders pre-smoke report are probably:
> Chronic Thunder
> Critical Jack
> Skunk #1
> ...



I'm shocked at how some of those performed!!!!! Big names too...................

Hey, were u able to up pics today??? I still cannot.........................gonna take down a BIG Cab in 10 minutes
was hoping to post some LARGE Bud Porn, lol..........

You need to do it again, this thread was so COOL, I'm gonna miss it!!!!!!!


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 26, 2014)

JetDro said:


> I'm shocked at how some of those performed!!!!! Big names too...................
> 
> Hey, were u able to up pics today??? I still cannot.........................gonna take down a BIG Cab in 10 minutes
> was hoping to post some LARGE Bud Porn, lol..........
> ...


I havent tried today but I've been having a lot of problems too over the last few days. Sometimes I just get the popup error saying there was a problem...other times it says they are too big even tho they are only like 600K.


----------



## GroErr (Nov 26, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I havent tried today but I've been having a lot of problems too over the last few days. Sometimes I just get the popup error saying there was a problem...other times it says they are too big even tho they are only like 600K.


Hey Hot Diggity, been having the same issues and I've tried 4 different browsers under Windows, Mac OS and Linux. It's a site problem, I've seen others mention the same problem. It started Monday morning and was good yesterday but today it's happening again. I've mentioned it in the help forums and from the answer I got I don't think they know what the problem is. From experience (I'm in the technology field) they probably did an upgrade Sunday night and something f'd up. Hopefully they'll figure it out soon, kind of hard to update threads with no pics


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 26, 2014)

GroErr said:


> Hey Hot Diggity, been having the same issues and I've tried 4 different browsers under Windows, Mac OS and Linux. It's a site problem, I've seen others mention the same problem. It started Monday morning and was good yesterday but today it's happening again. I've mentioned it in the help forums and from the answer I got I don't think they know what the problem is. From experience (I'm in the technology field) they probably did an upgrade Sunday night and something f'd up. Hopefully they'll figure it out soon, kind of hard to update threads with no pics


Yeah, I'm an IT guy as well. This site is very heavy AJAX and they probably have a dedicated server or servers to handle and serve photos so it's likely at that point that there is an issue.


----------



## JetDro (Nov 26, 2014)

FIGURES...............on my harvest day...............lol...............


----------



## GroErr (Nov 26, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Yeah, I'm an IT guy as well. This site is very heavy AJAX and they probably have a dedicated server or servers to handle and serve photos so it's likely at that point that there is an issue.


Yeah I've noticed today, the upload problem is back and even displaying pics is problematic, some I juts get a question mark icon. You're right, they're likely dedicated servers for pics and they're having some form of connectivity or updated software that's causing them issues. Seems pretty wide spread now, have seen quite a few folks mention it now


----------



## OutofLEDCloset (Nov 26, 2014)

Just browsed through your grow and DAMN. Well Done Sir. Blue Planet nutes producing nicely.


----------



## DabberDan (Nov 26, 2014)

I just want to say, the man who can be dealt news of tragedy like that, yet still have the drive to see things through and still keep your mind on track while doing this experiment, is admirable to say the least. I am sorry for your loss, death's in the family are never easy. On another note, I've read through all 27 pages of your journal and I have to say, very impressive and inspirational! I'm newer to the grow scene but like you, obtained TONS of info online and on forums to teach me how to grow! Your experiment thoroughly convinced me to skip the 2 weeks of vegging and go straight to 12/12. I thought that vegging was a necessity for plant production before but seeing as how you got nice, top grade medicine with a manageable indoor size is very alluring! Thanks again for all the info and effort you put into this grow journal! I'm sure you helped a lot of us out! @Hot Diggity Sog


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 28, 2014)

Very kind words and thank you. Ive been mia for a few days...got hit with a storm that has knocked power out for us and a lot of other people.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 29, 2014)

*Harvest Weights and Pictures!
*
I feel like I've been gone forever! We had a pretty bad storm and I lost power for 72 hours. Presented a challenge to control odor as many plants were hanging still.
This is going to take a least a week to get through but here is the first wave. As I took these pictures, each strain definitely has it's own unique smell and characteristics but there is one thing they all have in common. STICKY!

*Dinafem Seeds Critical Cheese*
*   *


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 29, 2014)

*Barneys Farm Seeds Critical Kush*
*
   *


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 29, 2014)

*Strain Hunters Seedbank Seeds Flowerbomb Kush*
*
   *


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 29, 2014)

*Barneys Farm Seeds G13 Haze*
(Harvested way early because of nanner's)


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 29, 2014)

*Delicious Seeds Critical Sensi Star*
*
   *


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 29, 2014)

*Sensi Seeds Silver Haze #9*
This plant is sick...retarded levels of resin.
*   
*


----------



## ASMALLVOICE (Nov 29, 2014)

Looking Sweet M8 

I like the Critical Sensi Star, I have one at 5 weeks into flower and it looks like it will be a decent producer. Looking forward to your smoke report.

Many thanx for the update. 

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 29, 2014)

*Barneys Farm Seeds Blue Cheese*
*
   *


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 29, 2014)

*Bomb Seeds Bubble Bomb*
*
   *


----------



## DirtyNerd (Nov 29, 2014)

Awesome things are coming a long very nicely congrats bro on a successful run


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 30, 2014)

More weights and pictures coming this evening. I have to say that I have never had an *easier* time drying than I am right now. Temps at 54 Degrees F and 40% RH is absolutely wonderful. Drying is so gradual and slow that I'm willing to bet a cure is optional. I'm curing anyway but just wanted to mention this to everyone. When the buds hit the jar they smell killer and are already starting to exhibit their true aromas...not just the generic skunk smell and certainly not of freshly cut weed (hay).


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 30, 2014)

*Sensi Seeds Skunk #1*
*
Plant A:
   


Plant B:   
*


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 1, 2014)

*Delicious Seeds Critical Jack Herer*
*  *


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 1, 2014)

*Barneys Farm Seeds Red Dragon*
*  *


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 1, 2014)

*Reserva Privada Sour Kush AKA Headband
   *


----------



## ASMALLVOICE (Dec 1, 2014)

Very Nice Work M8. 

Many thanx for the updates. 

Now you got a bit of curing to do and then we get a smoke report 

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice


----------



## Mainlinekush (Dec 1, 2014)

Great pictures brother they look sticky


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 1, 2014)

Thanks guys...they are indeed incredibly sticky


----------



## B166ER420 (Dec 1, 2014)

Nicely played....grown!
What can I say.... your pics are beautiful man


----------



## fingersdevious (Dec 1, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Sensi Seeds Silver Haze #9*
> 31" Tall
> 7" Cola
> Not very dense
> ...


that looks gorgeous im likign this journal very informative!! thank u


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 1, 2014)

*KC Brains Northern Lights Special*
*   *


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 2, 2014)

*Seedism Seeds Cheese*


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 2, 2014)

*Barneys Farm Seeds Chronic Thunder - Plant #1*
*  *


----------



## sky rocket (Dec 2, 2014)

From your pics looks like kc brains northern light special and chronic thunder yielded the most. Was your Reserva Prada sour kush bushy during growth? Did you run any CO 2 in your tent? I'm about to run about 8 or so girls for a 12/12 test grow. They all sprouted through the rapid rooter. Gonna put them in some canna coco. If all goes well going to run 60 to 120 beans from 12/12....

Keep up the good work. This is one hell of a detailed journal.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 2, 2014)

sky rocket said:


> From your pics looks like kc brains northern light special and chronic thunder yielded the most. Was your Reserva Prada sour kush bushy during growth? Did you run any CO 2 in your tent? I'm about to run about 8 or so girls for a 12/12 test grow. They all sprouted through the rapid rooter. Gonna put them in some canna coco. If all goes well going to run 60 to 120 beans from 12/12....
> 
> Keep up the good work. This is one hell of a detailed journal.


I'm not finished yet 
Probably the biggest yielders have yet to be shown as they are *still* hanging.

Did you run any CO 2 in your tent?
Nope, no CO2. Just plenty of air circulation in a large basement

Was your Reserva Prada sour kush bushy during growth?
Nope. In fact not at all. One tall stick.
 

Excellent! What strain is the 8 you chose?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 2, 2014)

sky rocket said:


> From your pics looks like kc brains northern light special and chronic thunder yielded the most. Was your Reserva Prada sour kush bushy during growth? Did you run any CO 2 in your tent? I'm about to run about 8 or so girls for a 12/12 test grow. They all sprouted through the rapid rooter. Gonna put them in some canna coco. If all goes well going to run 60 to 120 beans from 12/12....
> 
> Keep up the good work. This is one hell of a detailed journal.


I would love to discuss this more in detail with you. Things that went well for me. Things that did not. Things I would do differently next time, etc. And see what ideas you have.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 2, 2014)

*Barneys Farm Seeds Chronic Thunder - Plant #2*
The top cola would not fit in the jar so I had to remove 2 bud sites (4 buds in total) in order for her to fit. I guess that's not a bad problem to have 
She's the top yielder so far. I could go on and on about how friggin sticky she is but they are all sticky.

I think I'm starting to get a good sense of when to take down a drying plant. She went into the jar this morning and the RH gradually went up and was at 60% exactly a moment ago when I weighed her.


----------



## sky rocket (Dec 2, 2014)

1- Dinafem white widow and 2 dinachem 
1- th seeds original bubblegum
1- humboldt seed 707 headband
2- greenhouse seeds kings kush and 3 bubba kush
2- delicious seeds cheese candy. 

Some are lanky because they were strecthing for light because at the time they were sharing t5's with other girls...I'll flip the. To 12/12 this weekend. I want some vigorous rooting before I put them in canna coco.


----------



## ayr0n (Dec 2, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Barneys Farm Seeds Chronic Thunder - Plant #2*
> The top cola would not fit in the jar so I had to remove 2 bud sites (4 buds in total) in order for her to fit. I guess that's not a bad problem to have
> She's the top yielder so far. I could go on and on about how friggin sticky she is but they are all sticky.
> 
> ...


Where's all your plant matter at?? All i see is trichs


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 2, 2014)

sky rocket said:


> 1- Dinafem white widow and 2 dinachem
> 1- th seeds original bubblegum
> 1- humboldt seed 707 headband
> 2- greenhouse seeds kings kush and 3 bubba kush
> ...


That probably won't matter much. They are a tad stretchy but you could prolly bury them some when you repot if you wanted.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 2, 2014)

ayr0n said:


> Where's all your plant matter at?? All i see is trichs


HAHA! Thanks man. Are you just being kind? Is it just me or are these girls pretty resinous?


----------



## ayr0n (Dec 2, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> HAHA! Thanks man. Are you just being kind? Is it just me or are these girls pretty resinous?


no way I'm not kind at all - just call it like i see it lol. That looks like some frosty ass buds from where I'm sittin! Really curious to hear how it smokes / how the high is. Pretty sure there's some barney's farm seeds buried in my stash somewhere around here. You're making me want to pull em out n throw em in a party cup lol


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 2, 2014)

There are 6 plants that are still hanging. 4 of them will be cut up tomorrow morning and the other 2 maybe tomorrow night...maybe the following morning.
I also have 2 jars that I'm not sure if they've been photographed or not...I'll figure that out tomorrow.

In the mean time I wanted to share my modest summer harvest. I grew a Northern Lights Auto from BlimBurn Seeds. When I first started getting interested in growing again I had never heard of Auto's and it was a freebie from Attitude when I started placing orders for seeds.

At any rate, the grow went well and the plant was very nice. She had a nice mellow high and earthy taste. She was harvested on August 16th and has been curing since August 21st. Tonight was the 1st time I've checked on her in about a month and I wanted to share some pictures. When the cure started, she looked like about everything else usually looks. Having cured now for about 2 1/2 months she has lost almost all of the green color. Actually most of the green was gone after 1 1/2 months...last time I checked on her. At 1 1/2 month into the cure she measured 58% RH and while I did not take a reading today she feels pretty damned dry now. I'm going to take some sample puffs and see what she tastes like. She smells very odd. Can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe when I grind a little up she will smell differently.

At any rate, here are some pics I wanted to share. I've never cured anything this long and I've never had color like this.

When I look at the trich's under a scope they look absolutely gorgeous. They are not all brown and decrepit or anything like that. Nice and clear and shiny and sparkly.

Anyone done extended cures before that can share their experience with color and aroma?


----------



## DirtyNerd (Dec 2, 2014)

Hope my NL auto start to pack on the frost must be nice how having them jarred up i would just be smelling them all day


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 2, 2014)

DirtyNerd said:


> Hope my NL auto start to pack on the frost must be nice how having them jarred up i would just be smelling them all day


Getting prepared to ship out film canisters in vacuum sealed bags to my blind judges. Figure I only have about 4 strains that are viable candidates...hope the blind judges come back with flying colors for at least one of the 4.


----------



## DirtyNerd (Dec 2, 2014)

Hey bro in other news that AK48 Seed was shit it cracked but didn't break the soil thats the first and last time i ever use a Jiffy back to rock wool

in other news not going to move so ill be cracking some AK48 soon for the next grow still waiting on my other seed orders but really want to try the AK out i loved AK47 so lets hope its like that

But might wait as i am stress about having so much on hand


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 7, 2014)

*Barneys Farm Seeds Top Dawg*
Very leafy. Buds are not dense. Largest top cola but when I go in and do the final close trim it will probably lose this status.
This was one example where all of the lower vegetation was removed early in flower leaving only the top cola.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 7, 2014)

*Delicious Seeds Critical Jack Herer - Plant #2*
Plant turned out awesome. Ended up needing 9 days of hang time. Top cola was about 12 inches tall so I had to cut her up to fit into the jar.
Smells like Pinesol. Dense buds and not too leafy...will be easy for final manicure.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 7, 2014)

*Samsara Seeds Green Love Potion*
A very nice showing by this one. Good dense buds, nice resin. Overall a fine example.

*  *


----------



## sky rocket (Dec 7, 2014)

Critical jack herer #2 looks like she was a beast. Dam! Have you did your total weight of all of them combined yet?


----------



## ASMALLVOICE (Dec 7, 2014)

Way Kewl M8. Very Nice Work Indeed   

Some nice frosty goodness, thanks for the update. I am going to try some Green Love Potion in a few more days. It has a very unique smell to it so far, can't wait .

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 7, 2014)

sky rocket said:


> Critical jack herer #2 looks like she was a beast. Dam! Have you did your total weight of all of them combined yet?


No totals quite yet...pretty sure I have a few left that are jarred but haven't been photographed or weighed yet. I will write up a final report to better organize all this information.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 7, 2014)

*Connoisseur Genetics Seeds East Coast Sour Diesel Haze*
This one appeared to be one of the most massive ones during the grow but she was pretty light and airy.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 7, 2014)

*Barneys Farm Seeds G13 Haze - Plant #2*
A little on the leafy side as most of Barney's gear was.

*  *


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## cherrybomb74 (Dec 7, 2014)

Wow Diggity, this has to be the best experiment on RIU since i've been here, kudos to you 
You must be like a kid in a candy shop with all these different strains jarred up. I'm loving your KC and the Critical Jack...they all look like tasty nugs though. Amazing. So what's a keeper for your future 12/12s?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 7, 2014)

I will write up a summary report very soon and let you know. Round 2 is going to be a lot more ambitous!


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## cherrybomb74 (Dec 7, 2014)

Well in that case i'm subbed already! Bigger pots? Training? Man i can't wait whatever you decide to do


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## ayr0n (Dec 11, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I will write up a summary report very soon and let you know. Round 2 is going to be a lot more ambitous!


Even _*MORE*_ ambitious? Shit son, I'm just gonna quit growing and live bi-curiously through you.


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## hiddenidentity (Dec 14, 2014)

ayr0n said:


> Even _*MORE*_ ambitious? Shit son, I'm just gonna quit growing and live bi-curiously through you.


Bi-curiously? ha ha ha ha It's Vicariously


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## JetDro (Dec 14, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Delicious Seeds Critical Jack Herer - Plant #2*
> Plant turned out awesome. Ended up needing 9 days of hang time. Top cola was about 12 inches tall so I had to cut her up to fit into the jar.
> Smells like Pinesol. Dense buds and not too leafy...will be easy for final manicure.
> View attachment 3308419 View attachment 3308420


Your getting the idea on drying I see.....good job bro....you learn quick....


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## ayr0n (Dec 14, 2014)

hiddenidentity said:


> Bi-curiously? ha ha ha ha It's Vicariously


Lmao cell phone auto correct ftw


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 19, 2014)

Pending strain selection, this will be the vessel for Part 2.
  

Dimensions on this are:
*Width*: 21 1/2 Inches
*Length*: 42 1/2 Inches
*Depth*: 18 1/2 Inches

I have a drain 2 inches from the bottom which can be turned on and off and has a standard garden hose connection. This will basically be a flower bed hempy style.
I can comfortably fit two of these in a 4' x 4' tent.

I will construct a wooden support on wheels so these can be easily moved.
There will be a scrog net physically attached to each one to allow bending and tucking to control height variance.

With 3 Inch spacing, each vessel will be home to 98 Feminized seeds.
With 4 inch spacing, it would be 50 to 60.

Have not decided on the spacing yet and might end up doing one of them at 3 inches and the other at 4 inches.
I honestly don't think 3 inches is going to be a problem based on the 1st experiment.


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## GroErr (Dec 19, 2014)

Nice, want to see those in action, sweet setup


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 19, 2014)

GroErr said:


> Nice, want to see those in action, sweet setup


Thanks...other than the height variance (which was mostly due to the different strains), watering was the only huge hassle. This approach should really simplify that.
And running only 1 strain should make the height variance much more managable (in theory)


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## GroErr (Dec 19, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Thanks...other than the height variance (which was mostly due to the different strains), watering was the only huge hassle. This approach should really simplify that.
> And running only 1 strain should make the height variance much more managable (in theory)


Yeah, that's the only reason I haven't done SOG, smaller containers, watering more often and when you get into the numbers you're talking that could be a nightmare. In my case travel makes it almost impossible to manage grows with small containers. Now your setup, hempy style and a drip system might be doable...


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 19, 2014)

GroErr said:


> Yeah, that's the only reason I haven't done SOG, smaller containers, watering more often and when you get into the numbers you're talking that could be a nightmare. In my case travel makes it almost impossible to manage grows with small containers. Now your setup, hempy style and a drip system might be doable...


A drip system would be PERFECT. I've never done one but maybe this would be the time to learn. I figured hand watering this would not be much of a problem but I'm speculating.
Earlier in the journal someone posted some good info for me...just gotta go back and find it.


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## sky rocket (Dec 19, 2014)

how did the test results go with the samples


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 19, 2014)

sky rocket said:


> how did the test results go with the samples


1st batch arrived to my testers back home yesterday. So far they are pretty blown away but no specific reports quite yet. 2nd and 3rd batches mailed out today.
I have tried only 2 strains so far...the Chronic Thunder and Critical Jack. Both were nice...the Chronic Thunder was definitely more indica (not what I prefer).
The 2nd time I smoked the Jack, I overdid it. I'm kind of a light weight to begin with and it knocked my dick in the dirt.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 19, 2014)

I have one other idea that I have yet to solve...hoping you guys might have some ideas.

Purchasing Fem seeds is going to be very expensive and is not really a viable option if I were to scale this up. Creating my own fem seeds is an option but I've never done it and I'm not sure I would be able to produce the volume of seeds I would want.

Creating regular seeds is easy and creating them by the 10's of 1000's is also easy.

I have this item which would be ideal to start regular seeds in:
  

I could start regular seeds in a bunch of these and then as they sex, I would want to transplant the females into the hempy vessel but keep them in their pot. The holes in these pots should be plenty large enough to let the roots through once in their new home.

Problem is, I'm not sure how to do this. I don't think trying to forcefully push 98 of these down into the coco/perlite mix is going to work. Any ideas on how to do this?


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## Dloomis514 (Dec 19, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Pending strain selection, this will be the vessel for Part 2.
> View attachment 3316082 View attachment 3316083
> 
> Dimensions on this are:
> ...


Are those legs sturdy enough?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 19, 2014)

Dloomis514 said:


> Are those legs sturdy enough?


Oh...lol. That was just a silly little chair I used so I could photograph it up off of the floor. It has no legs.


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## GroErr (Dec 19, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> A drip system would be PERFECT. I've never done one but maybe this would be the time to learn. I figured hand watering this would not be much of a problem but I'm speculating.
> Earlier in the journal someone posted some good info for me...just gotta go back and find it.


Yeah, I have a simple Claber system that I've used from time to time, it wouldn't scale to your needs but they work well. A larger DIY system in hempy style would work well imo. Haven't looked into DIY but I'm sure there's a ton of info out there. There's one in the DIY section here but it's so old that the pics don't show up. They're pretty basic, that Claber works on gravity and a timer to open the valve, then a bunch of 1/4" tubing in a re-circulating configuration to flow to the plants and back into the res. Just upscale that, I'd probably throw a small pump inside the res to circulate the water/nutes from from getting stagnant or pooling, and generate some oxygen. The res would need to be fairly large and you need space for it. But at one point I had it running in a small cabinet with that exact problem, I just drilled 2 holes large enough to feed the tubing through the side of the cabinet and the res sat outside.


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## Dloomis514 (Dec 20, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Oh...lol. That was just a silly little chair I used so I could photograph it up off of the floor. It has no legs.


Lol, just letting you know I have your back!!!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 21, 2014)

*Summary Results*
Average Yield across 27 plants and 18 strains: 12.1 Grams. If we exclude the G13 that was taken early due to nanners, the average becomes 12.4 grams

Smallest Yield: Early G13 @4.8 grams. If we exclude her, smallest was 5.4 grams followed by 8.5 grams.

Largest Yielders: 20.6 grams, 19.9 grams and 18.1 grams.

8 were 14 grams or more.
9 were 10 grams or less.
10 were between 10 and 14 grams


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## GroErr (Dec 21, 2014)

Nice haul overall, ~325 grams, nice variety, sweet stash!


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## ayr0n (Dec 21, 2014)

GroErr said:


> Nice haul overall, ~325 grams, nice variety, sweet stash!


Hell yeah different smoke errrday

Enjoy @Hot Diggity Sog can't wait to see what else you've got up your sleeve for us


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## DirtyNerd (Dec 21, 2014)

Great job looking forward to the next season


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## sky rocket (Dec 22, 2014)

Good stuff on the yield. I can't wait to get my true 12/12 going. But dam 12.1 grams in the avg. Just think if you can maintain that average ( I'm sure you can) with the same strain with 37-40 beans under a 600 that would be easily 1lb. Hers my 12/12 side project. I think they are somewhere around 10-17 days in 12/12. I need to check my notes for the exact date. They are a tad bit yellow but I'll fix that with some Tylenol. Lol


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 23, 2014)

sky rocket said:


> Good stuff on the yield. I can't wait to get my true 12/12 going. But dam 12.1 grams in the avg. Just think if you can maintain that average ( I'm sure you can) with the same strain with 37-40 beans under a 600 that would be easily 1lb. Hers my 12/12 side project. I think they are somewhere around 10-17 days in 12/12. I need to check my notes for the exact date. They are a tad bit yellow but I'll fix that with some Tylenol. Lol


Tylenol...lol
Ahh, those look fine to me man. Are you keeping them in those cups or transplanting?


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## sky rocket (Dec 23, 2014)

I'm going to transfer them into 2l bottles.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 23, 2014)

sky rocket said:


> I'm going to transfer them into 2l bottles.


Cool. I look forward to seeing how they grow compared to mine since your's will have more space.


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## sky rocket (Dec 23, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Cool. I look forward to seeing how they grow compared to mine since your's will have more space.


Will definetly keep ya posted. I may do all coco in the 2l or the bottom of the 2l put vermiculite and perlite aka hempy stlye.


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## skunkd0c (Dec 23, 2014)

nice grow, would be cool to see how much difference maybe 1 week or 2 weeks of veg would
have had on the yield


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 23, 2014)

skunkd0c said:


> nice grow, would be cool to see how much difference maybe 1 week or 2 weeks of veg would
> have had on the yield


Skunk...what's up with these 2 posts from DiyKindGuy and Red1966?


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## 0james0 (Dec 23, 2014)

skunkd0c said:


> nice grow, would be cool to see how much difference maybe 1 week or 2 weeks of veg would
> have had on the yield


I read the same actually, that a plant won't ever go into flower for 2-3 weeks, so you may as well normal veg for that time and then go 12/12. 

This was a different experiment though, so not the right time for that.


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## sky rocket (Dec 23, 2014)

Personally if he vegs for a week or two he might up having a jungle and unmanageable growth for 27 plants under 1x600 watter. 12.1 grams a plant is hella good for no veg time. Sea of green is king when it comes to gpw. I will also attempt to do a 12/12 but with 2x600's and 120 seeds. If I can do at least 12.1 grams that's well over 3 lbs. and easily 1.20 gpw. Plenty of medicine for you and your friends....just my 2 cents


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## akhiymjames (Dec 23, 2014)

0james0 said:


> I read the same actually, that a plant won't ever go into flower for 2-3 weeks, so you may as well normal veg for that time and then go 12/12.
> 
> This was a different experiment though, so not the right time for that.


When growing 12/12 from seed your right about that it takes 2-3 weeks to flower but only because your trying to flower a very immature plant. There's no way possible a seedling will produce pistils because there's no nodes so therefore it has to grow a few nodes/leaflets before it will flower. A plant that's been growing in veg for a long time won't take near that time unless it's 100% long flowering sativa but since it's been in veg for a while already most likely its showed sex and has preflowers on it so it will flower much quicker. 

IMHO a plant isn't in veg until it passed the dampening stage of being a seedling. Once the seedling stage has past then I consider it to be in veg and that's usually between 2-3 weeks after breaking ground. But most people consider it to be in veg once it breaks ground so it more of a personal thing but that's why it takes most small plants to show sex because of being immature.


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## skunkd0c (Dec 24, 2014)

0james0 said:


> I read the same actually, that a plant won't ever go into flower for 2-3 weeks, so you may as well normal veg for that time and then go 12/12.
> 
> This was a different experiment though, so not the right time for that.


yeh ^ always nice to see, some folk still think 12/12 from seed is not possible
i was kind of hinting, i hope i see someone do a 1 or 2 week veg then flower
i can never get around to trying it myself

would be cool to see how much different amounts of veg time effects yield overall to find the best cut off point that suits different growing styles and situations
i think 3 weeks is very popular for folk to veg their plants so their are lots of grows around to see quite a few 12/12 from seed threads around too
not seen many 1 or 2 week veg then flower to compare to the 12/12 from seed

those i have seen suggest even giving just 1 week of veg before flower can significantly increase yield
although i am a bit sceptical about this as i find the biggest growth spurt is during flower anyway
so a long flowering sativa on a 12/12 from seed would still get big and yield several oz

peace


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 24, 2014)

That is a very good question. From the moment I placed seeds into rockwool I was looking at 34 days until the 1st pistols arrived. Since the young plants are technically in Veg until they think are ready, running a veg cycle until day 20, for example, is definitely worth trying. Anyone wanna give it a shot? My gut feeling is that the difference would be negligible but who knows!


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## skunkd0c (Dec 24, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> That is a very good question. From the moment I placed seeds into rockwool I was looking at 34 days until the 1st pistols arrived. Since the young plants are technically in Veg until they think are ready, running a veg cycle until day 20, for example, is definitely worth trying. Anyone wanna give it a shot? My gut feeling is that the difference would be negligible but who knows!


i have done 18-21 days from seed plenty of times, never any less,never done a 12/12 from seed either, although i have flowered cuttings as soon as they have rooted with no veg time
they grow in a similar central cola shape as a 12/12 from seed

plants at 18-21 days (veg photoperiod) from seed are just out of the seedling phase and have little nodes/branches forming
and might only be as small as 6 inch or so they go on to produce plants that can yield anything from 2 to 16 oz depending on the amount of sativa/stretch the genetics has
that's why i think the amount of veg can make less difference than the strain/pheno itself
if it does a big stretch due to its genetics it can grow branches before it shows pistils and will still get big overall and yield well

if you (see pistils) before any nodes/branches start to significuntly develop most strains from seed and even cuttings tend to grow a plant with one central cola and very little or any side branching


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## 0james0 (Dec 24, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> That is a very good question. From the moment I placed seeds into rockwool I was looking at 34 days until the 1st pistols arrived. Since the young plants are technically in Veg until they think are ready, running a veg cycle until day 20, for example, is definitely worth trying. Anyone wanna give it a shot? My gut feeling is that the difference would be negligible but who knows!


My current crop comes down Jan 5th (ish) so I'll have some space, only doing two plants again though, so kind of feel I need the veg time to get something decent. Plus it wouldn't even be comparable to your conditions. 

Loving your work though, some great skills and interesting ideas


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## nameno (Dec 25, 2014)

Merry Christmas to You!! Hot,good job!!!
A couple of questions I hope haven't been asked.If you were doing it again,
would you still use the same containers?
Did your high yielders come from the same
strain? Thanks !!!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 25, 2014)

nameno said:


> Merry Christmas to You!! Hot,good job!!!
> A couple of questions I hope haven't been asked.If you were doing it again,
> would you still use the same containers?
> Did your high yielders come from the same
> strain? Thanks !!!


Merry Christmas to you too!

I would definitely not use the same containers. I found that the containers I chose were adequate however watering them was a real hassle. I'm leaning towards a flower bed approach where they all share the same container.

The highest yielders came from:
Critical Cheese
Chronic Thunder
Critical Jack Herer
Northern Lights


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 25, 2014)

Update on the good yielders:

Green Love Potion - 14 Grams
Skunk #1 - 11.3 Grams and 15.4 Grams
Northern Lights Special - 18.1 Grams (Screwed up and did not get the other weighed...looked comparable so assume it was close)
Critical Jack Herer - 14.5 Grams and 19.9 Grams
Chronic Thunder - 15.2 Grams and 20.6 Grams


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## sky rocket (Dec 25, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Update on the good yielders:
> 
> Green Love Potion - 14 Grams
> Skunk #1 - 11.3 Grams and 15.4 Grams
> ...


Wich of these to you consider your top 3 smoke?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 25, 2014)

I have found the Green Love Potion to be quite lovely. I'm kind of a light-weight and can easily over do it. The 1st time I did the Critical Jack I really loved it. The 2nd time I smoked too much and it was way too strong for me. I'll be trying the Skunk #1 and Northern Lights within the next few days.

My blind judges have reported on the Red Dragon and Northern Lights but it's a head scratcher. One person loved the NL but another said it didn't even get him high...very odd. Both are daily smokers.


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## sky rocket (Jan 1, 2015)

I'm glad you have this journal because I can go back and research when your girls In 12/12 start to bud. I started my 12/12 from seed side grow on 12/19/14 and they are stretching but no budding yet. 

Have you started your next round yet?


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## akhiymjames (Jan 1, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> I'm glad you have this journal because I can go back and research when your girls In 12/12 start to bud. I started my 12/12 from seed side grow on 12/19/14 and they are stretching but no budding yet.
> 
> Have you started your next round yet?


When I did my Platinum Delights that I have going now it took her about 4-5 weeks to show flowers. It's so hard to flower a immature plant it has to grow some some nodes before it'll flower. Give it time it'll show in the next couple weeks


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## sky rocket (Jan 1, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> When I did my Platinum Delights that I have going now it took her about 4-5 weeks to show flowers. It's so hard to flower a immature plant it has to grow some some nodes before it'll flower. Give it time it'll show in the next couple weeks


It's funny because initially I thought when you do 12/12 from seed the day they are in flower is when you start your initial flower cycle. I didn't really realize it's going to take 20-30 days before budding..


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## akhiymjames (Jan 1, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> It's funny because initially I thought when you do 12/12 from seed the day they are in flower is when you start your initial flower cycle. I didn't really realize it's going to take 20-30 days before budding..


If the plant was way more mature then you could go with that cus a bigger more mature plant will flower faster than a 6in plant. If a seedling flowered immediately you prolly would get like a gram cola lol. But yea it's has to get big enough before it will flower that's why everyone says there like a veg cycle when doing 12/12 from seed before it flowers so for some people with height restrictions it's a perfect way to grow just have to find the right strain to do it with and that's what he's trying to accomplish here


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 1, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> I'm glad you have this journal because I can go back and research when your girls In 12/12 start to bud. I started my 12/12 from seed side grow on 12/19/14 and they are stretching but no budding yet.
> 
> Have you started your next round yet?


Not yet...still in the planning phase but I will let you know all know!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 1, 2015)

Yeah, exactly...a seedling is not sexually mature so it's just not going to jump into flower in 10-15 days like a mature plant will. The 12/12 cycle will build up the level of hormones such that when it is sexually mature, it should kick right in. 30 to 40 days from starting the seed is probably about right.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 1, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> It's funny because initially I thought when you do 12/12 from seed the day they are in flower is when you start your initial flower cycle. I didn't really realize it's going to take 20-30 days before budding..


How are yours going btw?


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## sky rocket (Jan 1, 2015)

I guess when I do my sog seeds from 12/12 I'll do them in solo cups under my t5's for the first 20-30 days and transfer them in 2l hempy under under 2x600!s so that I won't waste valuable time. I was thinking while I have my normal flowering plants ending in the next 30 days under my 2x600's to start the 12/12 from seeds under my 4ft t5 8 lamp. Does that make since to yall?


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## sky rocket (Jan 1, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> How are yours going btw?


They are sleeping. I'll put a pic if you don't mind tonight.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 1, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> They are sleeping. I'll put a pic if you don't mind tonight.


That would be great!


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## sky rocket (Jan 2, 2015)

I checked on the girls tonight and some are showing signs of budding so I'm going to feed them next time with Canna boost additive. I need to transfer the to 2l hempy has I see the roots coming up from the top the solo cups. Don't mind the leaning plants has I had them angled against my other pots that's being chopped down tomorrow.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 3, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> I checked on the girls tonight and some are showing signs of budding so I'm going to feed them next time with Canna boost additive. I need to transfer the to 2l hempy has I see the roots coming up from the top the solo cups. Don't mind the leaning plants has I had them angled against my other pots that's being chopped down tomorrow.


Nice! Yours have pretty much the same appearance and growth pattern that mine did.


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## sky rocket (Jan 5, 2015)

Hot diggity I transferred some of those girls from the cups to 2l hempy. I filled the bottom of the 2l perlite and vermiculite up til the side holes. Then I put coco based plant in the 2l and fill the rest up with coco. Hmmmm got me thinking of running 120 of these under 2x600's.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 6, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> Hot diggity I transferred some of those girls from the cups to 2l hempy. I filled the bottom of the 2l perlite and vermiculite up til the side holes. Then I put coco based plant in the 2l and fill the rest up with coco. Hmmmm got me thinking of running 120 of these under 2x600's.


Looking great! What size space would you potentially do that in...a 4'x8'?


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## sky rocket (Jan 6, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Looking great! What size space would you potentially do that in...a 4'x8'?


Yes 4x8space, I have a 3x6 tray that I can fit 120 2l's inside it. It's going to be a bitch but I've done it before; I will hand feed them all. The drain to waste set up drains at the end of the tray and runs off into a bucket. I've never done 12/12 from seed but I've done this setup with rooted clones.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 6, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> Yes 4x8space, I have a 3x6 tray that I can fit 120 2l's inside it. It's going to be a bitch but I've done it before; I will hand feed them all. The drain to waste set up drains at the end of the tray and runs off into a bucket. I've never done 12/12 from seed but I've done this setup with rooted clones.


Sounds awesome...keep me updated as this 1st test goes.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 6, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> Hot diggity I transferred some of those girls from the cups to 2l hempy. I filled the bottom of the 2l perlite and vermiculite up til the side holes. Then I put coco based plant in the 2l and fill the rest up with coco. Hmmmm got me thinking of running 120 of these under 2x600's.


What is the average height right now? The seem to be shorter and did not stretch as much as mine and I'm wondering if keeping them in the small cup this long might have reduced the stretch?


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## sky rocket (Jan 6, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> What is the average height right now? The seem to be shorter and did not stretch as much as mine and I'm wondering if keeping them in the small cup this long might have reduced the stretch?


I'll measure them out tonight and let you know. I wonder if letting them stay in the cups to long like i did may reduce the over all yield vs starting then in the 2l's


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 6, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> I'll measure them out tonight and let you know. I wonder if letting them stay in the cups to long like i did may reduce the over all yield vs starting then in the 2l's


Hard to say but I doubt it. Mine also could have stretched more than yours did cause I had so many of them crammed very close together...maybe their instincts to try and rise above their surrounding plants took over.


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## Tckcliff (Jan 6, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Barneys Farm Seeds Critical Kush
> View attachment 3303400 View attachment 3303401 View attachment 3303402 *


Man this is crazy, this is suppose to be such a huge yielder and for commercial growers and it yielded so small. compared to the others. I was thinking of ordering some critical strains like the critical 2.0 but seeing this is disappointing.


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## Tckcliff (Jan 6, 2015)

you did a great job tho, through and through, I enjoyed following it (really just reading and catching up) but it was awesome. now you got a nice selection of buds to go through when you want something different. Its like opening the fridge and saying whats for dinner...


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## Tckcliff (Jan 6, 2015)

Maybe i didnt see it, did you say what strains you were going to choose and liked the best?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 6, 2015)

Tckcliff said:


> Maybe i didnt see it, did you say what strains you were going to choose and liked the best?


So from a smoke stand point, I think Skunk #1 is leading the way but I have not gone thru all of them yet and neither have my blind judges...Northern Lights has been graded poorly which is disappointing. I have categorized the strains into 3 tiers purely from a viability standpoint (Yield, height, branchiness or lack thereof, etc.)

Once the judging comes back, I'll take all A+'s from Tier 2 and all A's and A+'s from Tier 1 and those will be the final candidates for the next round.
Regarding Critical Kush, the one thing everyone, including myself, has to keep in mind is that I only had 1 or 2 samples of each strain. I am running a huge risk in making my determinations based on such a small sample size. What if the Critical Kush's I had were just poor representations...bad luck. What if some of my best yielders happened to be way above the average for their strain? So these concern me a little moving forward.


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## Tckcliff (Jan 6, 2015)

thanks for the heads up. I was thinking that too, but still it didnt evn come close as to the others. But i do know you had some strains that had been crossed with it that did decent.

That was main reason i was reading through. I am doin research on commercial strains. Since you go through so many any suggestions, i already have a few but always welcome to hearing others input.


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## sky rocket (Jan 6, 2015)

Tckcliff said:


> thanks for the heads up. I was thinking that too, but still it didnt evn come close as to the others. But i do know you had some strains that had been crossed with it that did decent.
> 
> That was main reason i was reading through. I am doin research on commercial strains. Since you go through so many any suggestions, i already have a few but always welcome to hearing others input.


I've grow barneys critical kush and it's a good smoke and yielder. Check out drfrankenstein. He has a continuous journal of his barneys critical kush grow.And he's doing a good job on in. If you do get some critical kush I would at least get a 10 pack to find a good pheno.


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## Tckcliff (Jan 6, 2015)

That's funny I been following him and talking about ck right now haha


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 12, 2015)

I wanted to let everyone know that the next chapter will be starting in about 1 week. Once I create the new journal I'll put the link to it here for reference. After comparing the smoke reviews to the grow log, Chronic Thunder came out on top. Only problem was that Attitude only had 80 seeds available so I had to pick a 2nd strain. That one is going to be Sensi Seeds Skunk #1 and there are 100 of those coming. I had hoped to be able to order 200 seeds which would have afforded me some leeway if the germination rate is not excellent.

At any rate, as promised, this follow up experiment will be quite a bit more ambitious so see ya in about a week with the details.
- Diggity


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## sky rocket (Jan 12, 2015)

Awww shit can't wait. Did you choose cash or American express payment because the tune is still having payment issues.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 12, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> Awww shit can't wait. Did you choose cash or American express payment because the tune is still having payment issues.


Simona hooked me up...when you get to the order page, choose the Attitude Gift card option and then your debit/credit and you will be good to go.

I only had Visa and this worked perfectly.


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## sky rocket (Jan 12, 2015)

The barneys cookies kush just released today. Very tempting but I already have over 120 seeds...


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 12, 2015)

Sky...how did yours take to the transplant? Everything OK still?


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## sky rocket (Jan 12, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Sky...how did yours take to the transplant? Everything OK still?


Yes everything went well. If ya want I can post up a pic. I did throw one away because she was just a runt and a waste of time and space. The runt was from greenhouse.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 12, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> Yes everything went well. If ya want I can post up a pic. I did throw one away because she was just a runt and a waste of time and space. The runt was from greenhouse.


Please do


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## sky rocket (Jan 12, 2015)

Ok I'll put one up tonight as they are sleeping right now.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 12, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> Ok I'll put one up tonight as they are sleeping right now.


OK. How close are you keeping the 2L bottles? Are you noticing any branching or just single branch like mine did?


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## akhiymjames (Jan 12, 2015)

Well that's good to hear that you made an order with them but I just don't see how they were able to process Visa but yet they say they're not accepting it. Oh well not gonna try to understand as I don't order from them no more anyways. 

Why don't you just continue the journal here since lots of people already come here for 12/12 info. Plus it is continuing from the first chapter right? Can't wait to see the next round tho


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 12, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Well that's good to hear that you made an order with them but I just don't see how they were able to process Visa but yet they say they're not accepting it. Oh well not gonna try to understand as I don't order from them no more anyways.
> 
> Why don't you just continue the journal here since lots of people already come here for 12/12 info. Plus it is continuing from the first chapter right? Can't wait to see the next round tho


Yup...I'll just extend this journal...I guess there is no reason to start a new one.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 12, 2015)

*12/12 From Seed Experiment - The 2nd Chapter*

*Setup*
(2) 54 Gallon Hempy Totes in a 4'x4' Gorilla Tent
 

These will be primarily the same Coco/Perlite mix. The only significant difference will be 6 inches of 100% perlite on the bottom.
The drains are 2 1/2" from bottom and will connect to a standard hose.

*Strains*
Will be running two strains: Barneys Farm Chronic Thunder and Sensi Seeds Skunk #1. (One strain per tub)
Will be germinating 100 seeds of each with a target of having between 78 and 91 seedlings from each strain.

*Nutrients*
Blue Planet 3-Part High Yield System

*Lighting*
600 Watts. Metal Halide from start until early flower, High Pressure Sodium during flower, and back to Metal Halide for the final 2 weeks.
 

*Objective*
To average no less than 10 Grams per plant which, depending on germination rates, will result in between 1560 grams and 1820 grams.
This translates out to 2.6 - 3.0 grams per watt. Sounds nuts...can I do it? I don't know but we're going to find out.


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## sky rocket (Jan 13, 2015)

Dam you will be squeezing a lot if girls in there. I'm afraid you may not have enough room in your 4x4 tent even if you your germ rate was 78-91 percent. But good luck. I'm sitting front row for this. How are you germinating your seeds I.e. Paper towel method seeds in a cup of water......Wich name brand of coco will you be using also I take it by looking at your setup you won't be using any co2?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 13, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> Dam you will be squeezing a lot if girls in there. I'm afraid you may not have enough room in your 4x4 tent even if you your germ rate was 78-91 percent. But good luck. I'm sitting front row for this. How are you germinating your seeds I.e. Paper towel method seeds in a cup of water......Wich name brand of coco will you be using also I take it by looking at your setup you won't be using any co2?


I'm going to be using 1.5" rockwool cubes with a heating pad and a humidity dome...will be keeping the temp between 76 and 80.
No CO2.

Using a higher quality Coco this time...Roots Organics Compressed Coco.
The inner dimensions of the tubs is roughly 15" x 35.5"
Spaced 3" I get 6 x 13 or 78 total.
Spaced 2.5" x 3" I get 7 x 13 or 91 total so my spacing will be determined by how many of the 100 seeds germinate and look healthy.


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## DirtyNerd (Jan 15, 2015)

Woohoo looking forward to the next round best of luck my friend


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 15, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Woohoo looking forward to the next round best of luck my friend


Thanks! Seeds are on the way and my setup work is nearly done.


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## DirtyNerd (Jan 15, 2015)

Yeah i'll be doing a full upgrade next time i start up really looking forward to future planning can't wait to see the girls must of cost you a bit


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 15, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Yeah i'll be doing a full upgrade next time i start up really looking forward to future planning can't wait to see the girls must of cost you a bit


Yeah...just under $1100.


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## DirtyNerd (Jan 15, 2015)

Well shit i hope they gave you a lot of freebees


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 15, 2015)

Continued Preparation:
 

The 100 Liter bag of course perlite was the perfect amount to fill the bottom of both tubs. The tub on the right has an entire Coco brick added on top. Will be adding a little perlite to mix in with the coco layer and then these will be ready to go.


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## sky rocket (Jan 15, 2015)

With your coco brick did you have to charge it with nutes and pH it? Man you spent a lot on seeds. I hope you can get your money back 3x's with this grow. My first time with a coco brick was just plain messy for me. I had to add water to it and I left over coco. That's why I went with canna coco in a bag.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 15, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> With your coco brick did you have to charge it with nutes and pH it? Man you spent a lot on seeds. I hope you can get your money back 3x's with this grow. My first time with a coco brick was just plain messy for me. I had to add water to it and I left over coco. That's why I went with canna coco in a bag.


No nutes and just rinsed with plain water. I'll run 6.0 water with a little calmag thru the whole vessel prior to putting seeds in. The coco brick is Canna and claims to be super well rinsed...hope so. Regarding the up front cost of the seeds...not too worried about that *now* as this is still experimental prototyping. Looking forward, the cost and availability of seeds becomes a serious concern so being able to generate my own will be paramount.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 15, 2015)

I'll be keeping it real simple...light waterings with PH'd only water until I think they are ready for some light nutes. I made several mistakes early on in the 1st experiment...gave CalMag way too often and then started feeding too early. I won't be making these same mistakes again.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 22, 2015)

The 100 Chronic Thunder seeds arrived today!


The 100 Skunk #1 seeds shipped one day after these so should be tomorrow.

Here is the jig I made:
 

This jig is made out of 1 inch XPS foam board and 1.5 inch square wooden craft blocks spaced 3 inches apart.
It is made to punch holes in the wet coco for the rockwool cubes and is 1/2 the length of my container. There are 40 blocks but 2 more rockwool cubes will fit where the rounded corners are which will translate to 84 plants per tub. Sounds good in theory, will have to see how it works.


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## DirtyNerd (Jan 22, 2015)

Awesome bro looking forward to the show woot woot


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 22, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Awesome bro looking forward to the show woot woot


Me too man, me too! Was getting really worried about the seed order from Attitude cause it's taken longer than usual and none of the tracking numbers work but I feel much better after getting 1/2 of the order today.


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## DirtyNerd (Jan 22, 2015)

Did they give you many freebee with that huge order... ?

I am starting up again soon i can't wait anymore i miss the hobby to much


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 22, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Did they give you many freebee with that huge order... ?
> 
> I am starting up again soon i can't wait anymore i miss the hobby to much


Not as many as you might think. Looks like I got 8 freebies with the this order and not sure about the one coming tomorrow.


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## B166ER420 (Jan 22, 2015)

Good luck Hot diggity!


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## DirtyNerd (Jan 22, 2015)

Really hopefully they give you move most of the time when i order with Bonza i get around 10 freebees with only a order of $100 anyway looking forward to the show this one is going to be awesome


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 22, 2015)

B166ER420 said:


> Good luck Hot diggity!


Thank you!!!!!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 22, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Really hopefully they give you move most of the time when i order with Bonza i get around 10 freebees with only a order of $100 anyway looking forward to the show this one is going to be awesome


The way I'm setting this up it's going to be epic. Whether it's an epic failure or an epic success, I don't know!
Going back thru Chapter 1, the tent appeared to be quite full with only 27 plants. I'm talking about almost 10 times that many so it seems almost insane to even try...lol


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 22, 2015)

The temps in my basement have been cold but stabilized at 46 degrees. I've been running my 600 on a 12/12 cycle with an oil radiator heater running on it's lowest setting of 600 watts during the lights off cycle. I've managed to get the temps in the room up to 54 but no higher. Tonight I turned off the oil radiator and switched the 600 to be on 24/7 and with all ventilation turned off and the tent closed it's 77 degrees in the tent which is exactly where I want it for now.

Here is how I will be germinating the seeds. I will have a large towel over them for the 1st 2 days to keep them in the dark.
 

Each tray consists of 98 1.5" rockwool cubes. They will remain here until ready to be transplanted into the tubs.


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## DirtyNerd (Jan 22, 2015)

Yes this will be epic do you find keeping the seeds in the dark better till they pop out... ? i just have a light on them normally but only a t5 i really can't wait to see how this turns out

hats off to you mate your going a good job


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## akhiymjames (Jan 23, 2015)

I noticed that when I'm soaking and popping my beans that when they're in the complete dark while soaking they pop much better for me. 100% since I've been soaking and popping beans in water the last year. Used to just do it natural and let it pop itself in the medium but that takes to long for me now lol


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 23, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> I noticed that when I'm soaking and popping my beans that when they're in the complete dark while soaking they pop much better for me. 100% since I've been soaking and popping beans in water the last year. Used to just do it natural and let it pop itself in the medium but that takes to long for me now lol


Can you walk me thru your method? I assume when you say soak you're literally soaking them in like a cup of water? Do you use rockwool at any point or just go right from sprout into your medium?


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## Serial Violator (Jan 23, 2015)

Going to an interesting grow. 
That's a shocking amount of freebie for the amount you've spent. I've got a couple of accounts with attitude under different names and split my orders to get the mot freebies I can


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## texasjack (Jan 23, 2015)

awesome


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## akhiymjames (Jan 24, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Can you walk me thru your method? I assume when you say soak you're literally soaking them in like a cup of water? Do you use rockwool at any point or just go right from sprout into your medium?


I take a shot glass with some tap water. Drop them in there and put it in my closet where it's dark for 2 days. Most of the time all of them should be cracked by then but there can always be some stubborn ones. I go straight to the medium after that. Happy Frog base soil or when I'm growing it hydro and the only way I grow a seed hydro is if it's fem. I don't do dwc so not good for me to grow hydro with regs. I will use clones only now. But I'll grow regs hempy style with all perlite so straight to the medium


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 31, 2015)

Well, I'm finally off to the races. Attitude shipped my large order in 3 shipments. I got my 1st shipment in just over a week which is typical. But here I am 3 weeks later still waiting for shipments #2 and #3. #2 is out for delivery and #3 should be here Monday as it cleared customs and is not far now.

Order #1 contained 80 of the 100 Chronic Thunder and orders #2 and #3 will be the remaining 20 Chronic Thunder and the 100 Skunk #1's. I went ahead and planted the 80 Chronic Thunders that I have into rockwool this morning. It's official now!


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## sky rocket (Jan 31, 2015)

I realize in the 12/12 from seed it takes 20-30 days for the seeds to officially start budding. Before I did a 12/12 from seed I thought day 1 of flower was the initial day not knowing it took longer.....


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 31, 2015)

The 100 Skunk #1's arrived today and 98 of them will be entering rockwool today.


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## DirtyNerd (Jan 31, 2015)

Holy shit i don't like saying Epic but this is going to be epic


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 31, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Holy shit i don't like saying Epic but this is going to be epic


Haha...It's gunna be interesting, that's for sure. 98 Skunk #1's got planted into rockwool earlier today as did 80 Chronic Thunders. I'll take pics in a couple of days when things start to sprout.


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## DirtyNerd (Jan 31, 2015)

Damn Diggity you are going to be a busy man your like a mad scientists of weed  

Photo of you mixing all the nutrients lol


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 31, 2015)

LOL...you're probably right.


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## twobyetoo (Feb 2, 2015)

Even tho you don't run autos, i wanted to show you a strain you made me think of. Its Auto Sour Kush by Low Life. Looks like basically growing a cola lol


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 2, 2015)

twobyetoo said:


> Even tho you don't run autos, i wanted to show you a strain you made me think of. Its Auto Sour Kush by Low Life. Looks like basically growing a cola lol


Sure...do you have a pic?


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## twobyetoo (Feb 2, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Sure...do you have a pic?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 2, 2015)

Whoa...that is amazing. Did you grow that?


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## twobyetoo (Feb 2, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Whoa...that is amazing. Did you grow that?


lol no i wish I've never grown bud. trying tho. Im on week 3 of flower. i have a 2x2 tent i want to consistently harvest my own smoke from. Gonna try 4 autos 2 weeks apart. Your idea intrigues me tho. Thought this might be a decent strain to try for a cola growing style. This pic is from The Single Seed Centre. Where i buy my beans.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 2, 2015)

twobyetoo said:


> lol no i wish I've never grown bud. trying tho. Im on week 3 of flower. i have a 2x2 tent i want to consistently harvest my own smoke from. Gonna try 4 autos 2 weeks apart. Your idea intrigues me tho. Thought this might be a decent strain to try for a cola growing style. This pic is from The Single Seed Centre. Where i buy my beans.


Yeah, for sure. I've never seen anything that beefy but that short. Feel free to keep me posted on your 4 auto's and good luck!


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## twobyetoo (Feb 2, 2015)

they are 16$ per bean tho. Its Auto Lemon Skunk and Auto Kush crossed if the genetics might help you on your search.


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## twobyetoo (Feb 2, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Yeah, for sure. I've never seen anything that beefy but that short. Feel free to keep me posted on your 4 auto's and good luck!


I have a grow journal started with both strains i have ATM


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 3, 2015)

Germination is under way. Today is the 3rd day since the seeds entered the rockwool.

I had the domes covered with towels and black plastic for the 1st two days. Been keeping temps between 75 and 80. I really need a high germination rate as I want 84 in each tote.
Fingers crossed.

Chronic Thunder on the left.
Skunk #1 on the right.

Chronic Thunders are 12 hours older than the skunk #1.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 4, 2015)

What a difference a day makes. I'm having excellent results with this germination method. I hope to get all of these planted over the next day or 2.

*Skunk #1*
 

*Chronic Thunder*


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## LetsGetCritical (Feb 4, 2015)

are you growing 200 plants bro? that's pretty cool


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 4, 2015)

LetsGetCritical said:


> are you growing 200 plants bro? that's pretty cool


If all goes well, 168. 84 in each bucket. 84 is how the math worked out with each plant have a 3 inch x 3 inch footprint.


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## LetsGetCritical (Feb 4, 2015)

awesome


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## DonTesla (Feb 4, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> What a difference a day makes. I'm having excellent results with this germination method. I hope to get all of these planted over the next day or 2.
> 
> *Skunk #1*
> View attachment 3344927
> ...


Wow what a beautiful sight...a clean baby ganja sea, way to go Digz. And from seed, no less. You beast.

Loved the variety round..nice to see the simplicity and evolution too though.

Those babies took that light from the beginning? They looked a bit over-powered, shying away a bit..

Like your germ set up tho, dude. How long were the times?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 4, 2015)

DonTesla said:


> Wow what a beautiful sight...a clean baby ganja sea, way to go Digz. And from seed, no less. You beast.
> 
> Loved the variety round..nice to see the simplicity and evolution too though.
> 
> ...


Seeds went into the rockwool on Saturday so 24 to 48 hours was the average for the seeds to pop. I have the 600 on 12/12 already but its about 4 feet away so I'm not concerned about it being too much light.


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## DonTesla (Feb 4, 2015)

And I'll be following this thread, I'm stoked.
Looking to do a little organic sea after this round with DonPetro's new DIY LEDs .. you're helping me make my spacing decisions..
Hope this round is a dope blessing for you!
Mad Thunder Skunk combos

Edit

And 48 inches is a long way lol, cool.
And those are good times..I don't like paper towel.

Are they perkier now??

Looking forward to the grow,
DT


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 4, 2015)

DonTesla said:


> And I'll be following this thread, I'm stoked.
> Looking to do a little organic sea after this round with DonPetro's new DIY LEDs .. you're helping me make my decisions..
> Hope this round is a dope blessing for you!
> Mad Thunder Skunk combos


Thanks man, I appreciate it! I learned a lot on the 1st go around so trying to push the boundries on this one. What is it that most folks shoot for...1 gram a watt is when you're good, 1.5 and you're an expert and 2 is elite? Hoping to seriously exceed even those numbers.


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## Sativied (Feb 4, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> What is it that most folks shoot for...1 gram a watt is when you're good, 1.5 and you're an expert and 2 is elite? Hoping to seriously exceed even those numbers.


1 gp-hps-w is a littler better than good, more like great. 0.75gpw is good. 2.0 is godlike  

Anyway, interesting experiment. Always good to see people grow Skunk #1, beats many of its descendant and makes a good reference point. Google speescees 12/12 420 and check images results. Speescees ("spacecase") is a breeder (no mercy supplies) who has been promoting 12/12 from seed for as long as I can remember.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 4, 2015)

Sativied said:


> 1 gp-hps-w is a littler better than good, more like great. 0.75gpw is good. 2.0 is godlike
> 
> Anyway, interesting experiment. Always good to see people grow Skunk #1, beats many of its descendant and makes a good reference point. Google speescees 12/12 420 and check images results. Speescees ("spacecase") is a breeder (no mercy supplies) who has been promoting 12/12 from seed for as long as I can remember.


I'll look him up now. Skunk #1 was not my intended option. After the smoke reviews came in both Chronic Thunder and Skunk #1 were among the 6 voted in the top tier. Skunk #1 was my personal favorite too. It gave me the giggly type high like when I 1st started smoking so that was awesome. Chronic Thunder was in the top Tier as far as the growing traits and Skunk #1 just missed the cut and was in the 2nd tier. Had I been able to purchase 200 Chronic Thunder seeds I would have but Attitude could only fill an order for 100 so I chose Skunk #1 as my 2nd option. Both of these examples yielded well over the 10 gram per plant average that I am using as my expectations for this 2nd chapter so I feel pretty good about the decision.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 4, 2015)

Another note about grams per watt that I pay very close attention to is to incorporate time. If someone gets 1.5 gpw but it takes 6 months, then they are getting 3 grams per watt per year. 12/12 fs can afford as many as 4 cycles per year.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 4, 2015)

To continue along that previous thought, the next logical measuring stick becomes grams per kilowatt hour. 12/12 fs will be tough to contend with using this measurement as veg cycles will eat a lot of energy.


----------



## DirtyNerd (Feb 4, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> What a difference a day makes. I'm having excellent results with this germination method. I hope to get all of these planted over the next day or 2.
> 
> *Skunk #1*
> View attachment 3344927
> ...


Diggity i love your work bro i was just thinking you are going to get some amazing phenotypes will you be taking any clones.... ? going to be hard to label all them all if you did


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 4, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Diggity i love your work bro i was just thinking you are going to get some amazing phenotypes will you be taking any clones.... ? going to be hard to label all them all if you did


Nah...unfortunately no clones but I have ordered some stuff....

Drum roll please....
Silver Nitrate and Sodium Thiosulfate.

Attempting to convert a female is beyond the scope of this 2nd experiment but I might try it anyway on one just to takes notes and learn.
The obvious obstacle in the path I'm going down is not only seed availability but cost so being able to create my own will become critically important.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 4, 2015)

As I'm thinking about this, I think taking clones on the best ones is brilliant. Reveg them, uses the STS on them and start the seed creation that way. Thanks Nerd, you just steered me on the right path!


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## DirtyNerd (Feb 4, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Nah...unfortunately no clones but I have ordered some stuff....
> 
> Drum roll please....
> Silver Nitrate and Sodium Thiosulfate.
> ...


Yeah thats a great plan bro if you can make your own seeds your going to save your self a lot of money and one plant can give you 100s of seeds so never hurts to try

I remember @ASMALLVOICE was doing it last i heard he might be able to help haven't see him around much at the moment though


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## DirtyNerd (Feb 4, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> As I'm thinking about this, I think taking clones on the best ones is brilliant. Reveg them, uses the STS on them and start the seed creation that way. Thanks Nerd, you just steered me on the right path!


Happy to help bro you are really going to get some great phenotypes and it seemed like a waste to let them go and if you just take a small cutting from the lower nodes you will be good even if they are in flower

you will be fine because once they turn back to veg they go nuts and shoot new nodes off every where monster cropping its great


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 4, 2015)

*Chapter 2: Day 5 Update*
_A brief note on how I'm counting days this time. Day 1 was when the seeds entered the rockwool._

*Bucket Summary*
Each bucket consists of 50 liters of coarse perlite (rinsed) on the bottom.
Followed by 1.5 blocks of Coco Coir. Drainage approx 2.5 inches from the bottom, hempy style. _More on the draining later.
 _


I built a jig for measuring out my spacing and punching holes in the coco to accept the 1.5" rockwool cubes. It represents 1/2 of the container so I use on one end first and then flip it over and do the other side.
 


After using the jig, I have this:
 


Conclusion on the jig: It sucked. I won't ever be trying to do it this way again...lol. Damned near broke the jig trying to press down hard enough. As you can see, the impressions are about 1/4" deep. Fortunately, I suspected this might not work so I built a 2nd tool ahead of time...the poor man's jig:
 


This hand held screw driver gorilla glued into a pre-drilled 1.5" block worked pretty damned well. The original jig left good enough impressions for me to follow but it still was a time consuming task. As I said, had I to do this over I would do it differently. At any rate, moving on....


Progress during the planting. Note: doing the Chronic Thunders tonight.
 


Finished for the night with the Chronic Thunder Tab
 

75 rockwool cubes so far. The cube in the far upper right hand corner happens to have 2 sprouts in it...I guess I screwed up but I'm not going to mess with it. Only 4 of the 80 seeds have not germinated yet. VERY good results considering the general quality of seeds I've gotten from Attitude has been sub-par. Overall, I'm thrilled with the germ rate. The Skunk #1's are jamming at a near 100% germ rate so I will grab a few of them to bring this tub up to 84 total plants. _Both breeds were of similar heights in the previous experiment.
_
And finally, here are the Skunk #1's on deck for tomorrow! Pretty solid germination rate, huh?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 4, 2015)

Sativied said:


> 1 gp-hps-w is a littler better than good, more like great. 0.75gpw is good. 2.0 is godlike
> 
> Anyway, interesting experiment. Always good to see people grow Skunk #1, beats many of its descendant and makes a good reference point. Google speescees 12/12 420 and check images results. Speescees ("spacecase") is a breeder (no mercy supplies) who has been promoting 12/12 from seed for as long as I can remember.


WOW. I don't know how I've never come across this guy in all of my research!


----------



## Sativied (Feb 4, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> WOW. I don't know how I've never come across this guy in all of my research!


Figured you'd like it, his names is almost synonymous with 12/12 from seed here. He's also known for promoting a single soil container opposed to separate buckets and claims to be the original inventor of feminized seeds (he in any case was one of the first and pioneers of fem seeds). He also claims his plants were robbed once and were used as the foundation of a well-known dutch seed bank. Met him once, let's just say he's an interesting character. Lot of knowledge, lots of stories, some of both should be taken with a grain of salt. When it comes to breeders I'm surprised his name or no mercy seeds doesn't pop up more often. I've only grown the desert queen and while it's a great plant I can't say the same for the bud/smoke but that's partly a matter of taste. Still beats a lot of the pollenchucked material out there. He's been in the game for a long time.

Above all he's most known for his Santa Maria, which used to be one the most popular strains in dutch coffeeshops:
http://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/Santa_Maria/No_Mercy_Supply/


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 4, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Figured you'd like it, his names is almost synonymous with 12/12 from seed here. He's also known for promoting a single soil container opposed to separate buckets and claims to be the original inventor of feminized seeds (he in any case was one of the first and pioneers of fem seeds). He also claims his plants were robbed once and were used as the foundation of a well-known dutch seed bank. Met him once, let's just say he's an interesting character. Lot of knowledge, lots of stories, some of both should be taken with a grain of salt. When it comes to breeders I'm surprised his name or no mercy seeds doesn't pop up more often. I've only grown the desert queen and while it's a great plant I can't say the same for the bud/smoke but that's partly a matter of taste. Still beats a lot of the pollenchucked material out there. He's been in the game for a long time.
> 
> Above all he's most known for his Santa Maria, which used to be one the most popular strains in dutch coffeeshops:
> http://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/Santa_Maria/No_Mercy_Supply/


Santa Maria actually rings bell. Someone in my 1st journal had mentioned that as a really strong candidate for TTFS I should look into. Thanks for the info...very cool.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 4, 2015)

.....From September 19th, 2014 in my 1st experiment courtesy of Fiveleafsleft:

If going from seeds i think that you should look for a strain that grows very uniform. Skunk nr1 is one strain that's supposed o do that. I think that No mercys seeds grows pretty uniform since they are supposed to be grown on 12/12. Santa maria is in-bread for 8 generations now. You sem to invest much time and energy in this project.. If you have more time and energy maybe making your own female seeds with silver could be an option. I don't think it's that hard, but havn't tried it myself. Selfing a very uniform strain or crossing lets say NL5 with another uniform strain should give pretty uniform seeds, with the former being an S1 and the latter being an F1

The 12/12 from seed grow (in dutch i think) i posted several pages ago was grown with No mercy seeds, no mercy special. I do believe that most strains flower pretty well with this system, but he must have thought of uniformity when making seeds especially for this system. Good luck, have to continue with my day.. It's easy to loose track of time here..


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 5, 2015)

*Chapter 2: Day 6 Update*
Everything is planted. Exactly 84 plants in each tub as planned. The Chronic Thunder tub is on the left and it contains 8 SKunk #1's in order to complete the 84.


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## DirtyNerd (Feb 5, 2015)

beautiful great to see everything is going to plan i forgot are you doing 12/12 from seed for the girls.. ? sorry to much smoke and to lazy to look over 37 pages


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 6, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> beautiful great to see everything is going to plan i forgot are you doing 12/12 from seed for the girls.. ? sorry to much smoke and to lazy to look over 37 pages


Yep


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 6, 2015)

*Chapter 2: Day 7 Update*
Girls are doing well. I sprinkled some 50/50 coco-perlite over them and here is how they are looking:

Chronic Thunder on the left.
Skunk #1 on the right.
Don't mind the solo cups...just a little competition going on and I haven't decided how to incorporate them yet.
 

*Chronic Thunder*
 


*Skunk #1*
 

I've been battling cold temps and high humidity. If I disable all exhaust fans (in the tent and in the room) the temps are lovely but the RH skyrockets. Keeping the exhaust fans on 24/7 keeps the room too cold. Tonight I rigged up timers on the tent exhaust and the room exhaust and I'll monitor. Room exhausts every 3 hours for 15 minutes. This should allow the heat the build up but remove the humidity. Tent exhausts once per hour for 15 minutes. This should keep temps up in the 70's which is critical while they're this young.

Until tomorrow...cheers


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 9, 2015)

*Chapter 2: Day 10 Update*
Everything appears to be going great so far. For the most part the seedlings have taken to their new home just fine. I have 2 and possibly 3 dud seedlings on the Chronic Thunder side...time will tell. What else can I say...it's kind of boring during this phase.

*Chronic Thunder*
 


*Skunk #1*


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 10, 2015)

*Chapter 2: Day 11 Update*

I watered for the 1st time in probably 5 or 6 days today. Did not really think they needed to be watered but I'm paranoid of PH imbalances so I wanted to flush some fresh sub 6.0 water thru. I gave each vessel 1 gallon and got no run-off. After waiting for 30 minutes I gave each another gallon...still no run-off. What I find curious is that prior to watering, the top of the coco was still very moist. I'm wondering if the moisture in the bottom half of the vessel is either wicking up or perhaps evaporating up leaving the lower 1/2 dryer than the top 1/2. Seems counter intuitive to me. Gunna have to get used to these containers.

At any rate, some 11 day old seedlings. Yeah I know, pretty boring still. The last picture shows my 1st casualty. She looked alright earlier today and then just keeled over. lol, oh well.


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## Sativied (Feb 10, 2015)

Would be nice to fastforward a couple of weeks but looking good. Knowing you got the same camera, if you can sort of plant it in between plants you could make some nice photos playing with the field of focus (google images: photo row field of focus, for examples if I'm not making sense.).


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## glockdoc (Feb 10, 2015)

here for ride, good shit.
love the idea


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 10, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Would be nice to fastforward a couple of weeks but looking good. Knowing you got the same camera, if you can sort of plant it in between plants you could make some nice photos playing with the field of focus (google images: photo row field of focus, for examples if I'm not making sense.).


I do still have your fancy camera...just haven't broken it out for chapter 2 quite yet.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 10, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Would be nice to fastforward a couple of weeks but looking good. Knowing you got the same camera, if you can sort of plant it in between plants you could make some nice photos playing with the field of focus (google images: photo row field of focus, for examples if I'm not making sense.).


Will google that cause I don't know what you're talking about (yet).


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## Sativied (Feb 10, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Will google that cause I don't know what you're talking about (yet).


Perhaps better keywords are "aperture exercises row" so you can also read how to make a shot like that. Really classic thing to learn and do in photography when you have a row of objects, essentially focus only on a range in the distance. If you put the camera on macro and zoom in all the way you get the same thing, can move the focus point with the little joystick like button right from the lcd and get pro shots with simple objects (not mine: )


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## DirtyNerd (Feb 11, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I do still have your fancy camera...just haven't broken it out for chapter 2 quite yet.


No point yet my brother just wait till the girls are flowering no point in veg in my eyes each to there own i must say your doing something all of us a favor wish we could do but your the only one with the balls to have huge numbers for all your hard work i take my hat off your a man on your own and us as members of rollitup are lucky that you picked this forum for do this test on keep up the great job and i'll always have your back


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 17, 2015)

*Chapter 2: Day 18 Update*
It's been a rough week. The seedlings have not been doing well and I've been struggling to figure out why. Murphy's Law certainly kicked in too. The seedlings have progressed very slowly and they have progressively become more and more pale and on a few plants there is even some death occurring on their first set of leaves. Up until yesterday, they have been getting nothing but PH'd water. No nutes and no cal mag. My 1st thought was possible over watering. I plunged a long dowel deep into the containers to inspect the moisture levels and I determined it's not that. The Coco is very light and airy like you would expect and draining has been working as designed.

My next thought was maybe they need some cal mag. So I go over to my large bottle and discover the top layer is covered in mold...ugh. So I order more but it won't be here until tomorrow. I decided a very light feed is my next course of action. Having already been down the path of pre-mature feeding I did not want to fuck this up so I went with 25% of the seedling strength.

Yesterday morning I went down and the light was off. Net problem: My Hortilux Eye Blue MH bulb died. I confirmed by trying it in my backup ballast. So yesterday I plugged the HPS in but then today I remembered that I have a cheapo MH bulb that I got with my 1st ballast and so I put that in today. The 1st thing I noticed is that this MH bulb is WAY brighter than how the Hortilux has been. Is it possible the Hortilux has been on the verge of failing and that the yellowing could be from poor lighting? So unfortunately I may never know as I have done a light feed and replaced the light so if it's one of these it will correct it but I won't know which. It could be my imagination but they do seem to look a little better this morning than yesterday so I'm hopeful things will fall into place.


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## akhiymjames (Feb 17, 2015)

I think it's just time for food. You gotta think your coco isn't amended with anything so you gonna have to start feeding early and yea I'm sure the cal/mag has something to do with it too as the coco has nothing in it. I know when I start seeds in soiless medium which is always perlite I start 1/4 strength feeding after couple weeks. I'm sure things will pick bag up after the feed and getting the cal/mag. They don't look bad just hungry


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 17, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> I think it's just time for food. You gotta think your coco isn't amended with anything so you gonna have to start feeding early and yea I'm sure the cal/mag has something to do with it too as the coco has nothing in it. I know when I start seeds in soiless medium which is always perlite I start 1/4 strength feeding after couple weeks. I'm sure things will pick bag up after the feed and getting the cal/mag. They don't look bad just hungry


Thanks for chiming in man. It's nice to bounce problems like this off of you guys. I'll monitor closely and continue with light feedings then.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 17, 2015)

How quickly do you think I might start noticing some differences now they've had a small bite to eat? In my 1st experiment, I never experienced them being hungry.


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## akhiymjames (Feb 17, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> How quickly do you think I might start noticing some differences now they've had a small bite to eat? In my 1st experiment, I never experienced them being hungry.


Coco growing is hydro and your doing passive hydro right by hand watering? Well when I grow hydro and feed I usually noticed differences in the same day within hours usually. This would let me know if I fed too much and need to flush or need to add more. I have never grown in coco only perlite with hydro so I don't know how fast the plants respond in it but it shouldn't be long. 

When you first started this experiment a while back how did the plants respond after upping feedings or when you had to flush when you added too much nutes? That will give you an idea how long the response time should be


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 17, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Coco growing is hydro and your doing passive hydro right by hand watering? Well when I grow hydro and feed I usually noticed differences in the same day within hours usually. This would let me know if I fed too much and need to flush or need to add more. I have never grown in coco only perlite with hydro so I don't know how fast the plants respond in it but it shouldn't be long.
> 
> When you first started this experiment a while back how did the plants respond after upping feedings or when you had to flush when you added too much nutes? That will give you an idea how long the response time should be


I took a nap and when I went down they have already responded big time. I should have waited before asking. They were hungry hungry hippos.


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## Sativied (Feb 17, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I took a nap and when I went down they have already responded big time. I should have waited before asking. They were hungry hungry hippos.


I'm glad you asked anyway. They look exactly like seedlings I had about a year ago in small coco pots, including the one with the bad leaf. While it was in my case fairly sure initially due to overwatering - plants that stage don't need nutrients, especially as long as the cotyledons are healthy - that also flushed the buffer out of coco. I'm no coco expert but pretty sure you're supposed to avoid using water only especially not for a longer period as it flushes it out the buffer.



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Is it possible the Hortilux has been on the verge of failing and that the yellowing could be from poor lighting?


No, just saying, so you can exclude that. It has to get extremely poor, dark almost before there's not enough light to produce chlorophyll (which is an Mg atom surrounded with N, hence why they are important for "green") and then they would clearly start out limegreen/yellow in the middle. 

Glad to hear they are responding well to the feeding.

One thing though, on the pics the coco looks wet but the rockwool cubes don't. When you use rockwool cubes in soil or coco they tend to dry out faster than the rest of the medium, and watering the medium doesn't always make the cubes moist enough. Till the point the roots became large enough to suck water to it. It seems to be the case with all of them though, while if it would be a watering issue there would probably be more variation.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 17, 2015)

Sativied said:


> I'm glad you asked anyway. They look exactly like seedlings I had about a year ago in small coco pots, including the one with the bad leaf. While it was in my case fairly sure initially due to overwatering - plants that stage don't need nutrients, especially as long as the cotyledons are healthy - that also flushed the buffer out of coco. I'm no coco expert but pretty sure you're supposed to avoid using water only especially not for a longer period as it flushes it out the buffer.
> 
> No, just saying, so you can exclude that. It has to get extremely poor, dark almost before there's not enough light to produce chlorophyll (which is an Mg atom surrounded with N, hence why they are important for "green") and then they would clearly start out limegreen/yellow in the middle.
> 
> ...


I won't be able to check on them until morning but I will do a thorough inspection of the cubes. Because they are partly exposed I can see your point about them drying out quickly. Short of digging one up to check root development I can't really tell if they have roots deep enough yet such that it does not matter. Either way, I will make sure to pay closer attention to that.


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## DirtyNerd (Feb 17, 2015)

Looking great Diggity the girls are going to be happy now with some food should notice a good change once them girls kick off its going to be a crowded house

I also find with coco food from the start never hurts i have only grown in coco/perlite mix so can't comment on anything else but i find if you start the girls off with some root boosters and a little a/b they are seem to like it looking forward to the next update


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## glockdoc (Feb 17, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Looking great Diggity the girls are going to be happy now with some food should notice a good change once them girls kick off its going to be a crowded house
> 
> I also find with coco food from the start never hurts i have only grown in coco/perlite mix so can't comment on anything else but i find if you start the girls off with some root boosters and a little a/b they are seem to like it looking forward to the next update


any other insights when growing with coco?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 19, 2015)

*Chapter 2: Day 20 Update*
Things are going much better now after 2 mild feedings and a fresh bottle of Cal Mag that arrived today. I'm pretty upset with myself for the stumble. I think I over compensated based on the mistakes I made on the 1st chapter. Hopefully they will kick into high gear now. I'm projecting day 33 as the 1st day of flowering so I sure hope so.

They are starting to regain that nice green color and growth is definitely noticeable. I feel like I'm about 4 or 5 days behind schedule because of this so we'll see.

*Thunder Tub*: 83 out of 84 alive
*Skunk Tub*: 84 out of 84 alive (although 1 is definitely not going to make it)


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 19, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> With your coco brick did you have to charge it with nutes and pH it? Man you spent a lot on seeds. I hope you can get your money back 3x's with this grow. My first time with a coco brick was just plain messy for me. I had to add water to it and I left over coco. That's why I went with canna coco in a bag.


I did not charge it and I screwed up. Won't be making that mistake again. I think what I would have done had I to do it over would be to thoroughly wet the containers with Cal Mag and 1/8 strength of nutes and then just watered with PH'd water for 7 to 10 days.


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## akhiymjames (Feb 19, 2015)

When I usually germ my sees for soiless(perlite) I usually use plain water for first week. After the first week 1/4 strength base nutes for a couple weeks or depends on how the plant is reading. By then the seedling stage should be passed and I'll go 1/2 strength and then 1/4 strength adds. I've never grown coco tho so I don't know it charging it is good or not. Don't feel bad bro it happens just like nerd said giving them a lil when growing in coco won't hurt as there's nothing in it. I know cotyledons will keep them alive if they're healthy but I think like if it was the wild it would be getting some kind of NPK from the earth by now and that would keep them nice and healthy and lush. I just know when I germ my seeds in perlite they won't last with getting some nourishment after a week or so


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 21, 2015)

*Chapter 2: Day 22 Update*
I feel like we're back on track now. Over the last 6 days or so I've done a 25% strength week 1 feed followed by a 2/3rd strength feed followed by a CalMag only watering and then tonight I did a 100% week 1 feed with a 50% CalMag addon. I've also disabled the hempy feature for now and probably won't reinstate it until mid flower (I'm paranoid of fucking up and perhaps root rot).
I have drain plugs on the bottom I can open and close so as of now, I will be watering with drain to waste.

*Thunder Tub*: 83 out of 84 alive
*Skunk Tub*: 84 out of 84 alive

Thunders look a little bit more developed but at this stage in the 1st chapter I had a lot of variance so I'm not worried. 11 days until projected 1st pistol so we gotta get going!


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## Sativied (Feb 21, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I will be watering with drain to waste.


Wise considering the amount of seeds you popped. At most you waste some water and nutes which in comparison cost very little.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 21, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Wise considering the amount of seeds you popped. At most you waste some water and nutes which in comparison cost very little.


For sure...not concerned in the slightest with that


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## bryleetch (Feb 21, 2015)

Something about a sog like this that just brings a smile to my face, I would love to someday have something going like this.. In the meantime I'll be taking notes and learning from the best


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 21, 2015)

bryleetch said:


> Something about a sog like this that just brings a smile to my face, I would love to someday have something going like this.. In the meantime I'll be taking notes and learning from the best


Haha...I don't know about the "best" part, but thank you for the kind words


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## Mohican (Feb 22, 2015)

I threw out some trim and placed it in my worm bin and ended up with way too many plants.














I ended up pulling them all and planting an LA Con clone:




Cheers,
Mo


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## akhiymjames (Feb 22, 2015)

Mohican said:


> I threw out some trim and placed it in my worm bin and ended up with way too many plants.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You throughout some trim and it turned into plants Im reading this right? Lol


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## Tiktok (Feb 22, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> You throughout some trim and it turned into plants Im reading this right? Lol


That's what I was wondering also. What do you have in that can to make trim grow like that. I need that recipe Mo!


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## Mohican (Feb 23, 2015)

It was seeded trim. I removed the seeds from the flowers, which had gone too long to be any good. Apparently there were a few viable seeds I missed. The point was that several small plants become several big plants very quickly!

This was the other one:












Cheers,
Mo


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 23, 2015)

Mohican said:


> It was seeded trim. I removed the seeds from the flowers, which had gone too long to be any good. Apparently there were a few viable seeds I missed. The point was that several small plants become several big plants very quickly!
> 
> This was the other one:
> 
> ...


Now I understand. Why did you end up killing them all?


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## Mohican (Feb 23, 2015)

I only want to keep the unique specimens. 99% of them were the same. The smell on the stem rub was blah and the structure was too spindly. 

I kept one beefy leafy girl I call Rebar and one of the better smelling 99% I call BigK.

Most of the plants I pulled were male also. I went crazy one day just pulling males without smelling them first. I ended up yanking a male that smelled like cantaloupe!

I still have all of the seeds I harvested (minus some I gifted) so I can always hunt for it again.



Cheers,
Mo


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## greendave (Feb 23, 2015)

I have a question about going immediately to 12/12 from seed.Do you skip the grow notes and give bloom,or what's up with the nuts regimen.If you already answered this i apologize.thanks


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 23, 2015)

greendave said:


> I have a question about going immediately to 12/12 from seed.Do you skip the grow notes and give bloom,or what's up with the nuts regimen.If you already answered this i apologize.thanks


I do not skip the veg nutes. I use the veg nutes until I see pistols and then I begin the flowering regiment.


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## greendave (Feb 23, 2015)

Gotcha cool thanks


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 24, 2015)

*Chapter 2: Day 25 Update*
The girls are growing but slowly. I'm starting to get a little nervous as they seem to be a little behind schedule. I watered and fed the usual 5 gallons of water this morning. Today's feeding consisted of 100% of the seedling schedule but no Cal Mag. I always PH the water going in but today I tested the run-off and it was in the low 6's so I feel great about that. I got about 2 gallons worth of run-off despite not watering for 2 1/2 days.

*Thunder Tub*: 83 out of 84 alive
*Skunk Tub*: 84 out of 84 alive


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## iliadtattoo (Feb 24, 2015)

Thanks man! going to pop some beans to keep my party cup company ! appreciate the log and the concept.


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## Mohican (Feb 25, 2015)

Looks like a lawn!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 25, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Looks like a lawn!


Haha..yeah. It's about to turn into a jungle soon I imagine


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## Mohican (Feb 25, 2015)

Makes it easy to see the special ones! Lightly rub the stems and see if you can smell their scent. I smell my fingers first just to make sure they don't smell like soap or fish fertilizer 

Just the other day I noticed that when I rubbed my fingers together after a stem rub, more and more new scents were released.

When I was at the LA Cup they were giving out dabs at the TGA booth and I asked for a sand grain sized piece and rubbed it between my fingers for 30 minutes. It just kept smelling better and better! Started out very normal dab extract smelling and then it just bloomed into a candy fruity smell with more and more layers.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 27, 2015)

*Chapter 2: Day 28 Update*
Things are progressing but still pretty slowly. I think I went from starving them to over-feeding them. I ended up flushing 12 gallons of PH'd water thru yesterday and will give a lite feed tonight. Probably back tracking to 1/2 or 2/3rds of the seedling schedule.

I have had the absolute worst luck with light bulbs...my fancy Metal halide died a couple of weeks ago. Got a replacement in the mail 2 days ago dead on arrival. 2 days ago I decided to just put in my nice HPS bulb instead of the cheapo MH I was using in the interim. My HPS lasted all of 2 days. Went down today and dead.

Called around and found a local shop where I can buy the Hortilux blue so I'm off to go get one. I'm done buying bulbs online.

*Thunder Tub*: 83 out of 84 alive
*Skunk Tub*: 84 out of 84 alive


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## Mr.Head (Feb 27, 2015)

Damn Diggity

Fucking gorgeous dude. Hope it works out for you.

Yeah I hear you about buying bulbs online my lights/bulbs/electronics get bought local, it costs me twice as much probably but I had a ballast fail and was in and out of the store with a brand new ballast and no cash spent in 15 minutes. Wasn't even down for 24 hours. It's worth the extra expense for sure. All my bulbs even the cheapies have a 1 year warranty too.


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## Mr.Head (Feb 27, 2015)

I got some 12/12fs going on too actually Diggity, I put some pics up in the Bodhi thread earlier.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 27, 2015)

Mr.Head said:


> I got some 12/12fs going on too actually Diggity, I put some pics up in the Bodhi thread earlier.


Sweet...got a direct link for me?


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## Mr.Head (Feb 27, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Sweet...got a direct link for me?


For a swell chap like you? Sure do! 

https://www.rollitup.org/t/bodhi-seeds.518143/page-580#post-11355979

The fireballs is by Breeders Boutique


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 27, 2015)

Looking right as rain 

Don't suppose you know how many days it took to see the 1st pistol?


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## Mr.Head (Feb 27, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Looking right as rain
> 
> Don't suppose you know how many days it took to see the 1st pistol?


lol pfft no way man, 3 weeks ish. I really need to start taking notes. I don't even have plants labeled


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 27, 2015)

Mr.Head said:


> lol pfft no way man, 3 weeks ish. I really need to start taking notes. I don't even have plants labeled


Reason I ask is these girls are behind schedule. According to my 1st chapter, they are set to show pistols in 5 days. One of 2 things is going to happen. They are going to show pistols in 5 days and possibly be runts which is gunna absolutely suck. Or, they wont show pistols until longer and they will end up being just fine. Ive seen a few CFL 12/12fs journals on here where the girls are in full flower at 2 inches tall and 3 sets of leaves which terrifies me.


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## Mr.Head (Feb 27, 2015)

Looks like they are about to start taking off to me, I bet the growth speeds up over the next week, maybe 10 days before pistils bet they will be close to doubled in size by then? noticed you said you had some feeding issues, maybe that slowed em up a bit. I wouldn't think you'd be having space concerns in that tub for a few more weeks yet. 

I really hope they don't flower on you this soon. 

On a side note, I'm trying fimming right around the stage you're at now, to see if I can get 4 tops without slowing em down too much.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 27, 2015)

Mr.Head said:


> Looks like they are about to start taking off to me, I bet the growth speeds up over the next week, maybe 10 days before pistils bet they will be close to doubled in size by then? noticed you said you had some feeding issues, maybe that slowed em up a bit. I wouldn't think you'd be having space concerns in that tub for a few more weeks yet.
> 
> I really hope they don't flower on you this soon.
> 
> On a side note, I'm trying fimming right around the stage you're at now, to see if I can get 4 tops without slowing em down too much.


Wow, I will like to see the results of that!


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## Mr.Head (Feb 27, 2015)

First time I grew 12/12 from seed I encountered but rot on a Northern lights I ran. Hoping to find a way to spread out the weight a bit to avoid that in the future on heavier yielding strains.

Think I'll try some light LST on the next seeds I got coming up.


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## bryleetch (Feb 27, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> the girls are in full flower at 2 inches tall and 3 sets of leaves which *terrifies* me.


Boo!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 27, 2015)

bryleetch said:


> Boo!View attachment 3360828


Yeah...kind of like that! That sure looks great but is not what I'm going for is all.


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## bryleetch (Feb 27, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Yeah...kind of like that! That sure looks great but is not what I'm going for is all.


Don't blame you but it sure would be the cutest little sog ever lol you shouldn't worry tho, yours are way bigger than this bugger was at day 21. I have a pic of that but I'm not at my computer atm


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 3, 2015)

*Chapter 2: Day 32 Update*

No water or food since Friday night - 3 1/2 days.
Will be doing a very large watering this morning with 100% of the seedling schedule feed and a 25% calmag add-on. Girls are about ready to explode.
*
Thunder Tub: *83 out of 84 alive
*Skunk Tub: *84 out of 84 alive
*
   *


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## Mr.Head (Mar 3, 2015)

looking beautiful. They've grown quite a bit in the few days. 

That synergy I topped looks like it's JUST about to show pistils, hard to tell, but the fimming doesn't seem to have slowed it much. It's branching out just like a normally topped plant would so far, looks like I'll have 6 tops on her. Won't really know until it hits the stretch I think to really be able to identify if it's been stunted at all.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 3, 2015)

Mr.Head said:


> looking beautiful. They've grown quite a bit in the few days.
> 
> That synergy I topped looks like it's JUST about to show pistils, hard to tell, but the fimming doesn't seem to have slowed it much. It's branching out just like a normally topped plant would so far, looks like I'll have 6 tops on her. Won't really know until it hits the stretch I think to really be able to identify if it's been stunted at all.


Are you taking pictures of her? If so, I would like to see several of them. Feel free to PM them to me.


----------



## sky rocket (Mar 3, 2015)

Those are looking money lush green. I should be either a week or two behind you. I have about 90+ rooted clones I'm about to put into a sog. I'm going to wait another 2 weeks so that they have long enough roots and also wait for my super lemon haze to finish up....


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 3, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> Those are looking money lush green. I should be either a week or two behind you. I have about 90+ rooted clones I'm about to put into a sog. I'm going to wait another 2 weeks so that they have long enough roots and also wait for my super lemon haze to finish up....


Thanks man!

I can't wait to see yours. Are you going to do these in the 2L bottles?


----------



## akhiymjames (Mar 3, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> Those are looking money lush green. I should be either a week or two behind you. I have about 90+ rooted clones I'm about to put into a sog. I'm going to wait another 2 weeks so that they have long enough roots and also wait for my super lemon haze to finish up....


90 clones oh shit you about to kill bro. You definitely gotta show progress of that and the Lemon Haze. 

@Hot Diggity Sog looking good bro. That lil hiccup doesn't seem like it slowed you down too much. Keep it up bro


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 3, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> 90 clones oh shit you about to kill bro. You definitely gotta show progress of that and the Lemon Haze.
> 
> @Hot Diggity Sog looking good bro. That lil hiccup doesn't seem like it slowed you down too much. Keep it up bro


Thanks man. Ya know, I might have had some issues but I think I was being so fixated on the exact timeline of my first experiment that I probably was overreacting. Oh well...I'm still learning. This is the most fun part for me now. Right before the seedlings start exploding into the pre-flower stretch. Btw, the tent got stinky over the last couple of days which is oh so nice


----------



## sky rocket (Mar 3, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Thanks man!
> 
> I can't wait to see yours. Are you going to do these in the 2L bottles?


Yes sir. 2l bottles hempy style using house of garden nutes.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 3, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> Yes sir. 2l bottles hempy style using house of garden nutes.


This is gunna be cool


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 6, 2015)

*Chapter 2: Day 35 Update*

Watered with 12 gallons and full strength on the seedling schedule. Was tempted to increase nutes but decided to wait until next watering to bump it. No Cal Mag today.
*
Thunder Tub: *83 out of 84 alive
*Skunk Tub: *84 out of 84 alive


----------



## sky rocket (Mar 6, 2015)

Looks like they will soon be fighting for elbow space. Lol


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 6, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> Looks like they will soon be fighting for elbow space. Lol


lol, yup. We'll see how they manage.


----------



## Sativied (Mar 6, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> lol, yup. We'll see how they manage.


"Know thy neighbor"
http://5e.plantphys.net/article.php?id=236


----------



## thenotsoesoteric (Mar 6, 2015)

Were these regular seeds or feminized? If regulars, you'll have quite the male hunt on your hands in a couple weeks. Cheers.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 6, 2015)

Fascinating article Sat. Makes perfect sense.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 6, 2015)

thenotsoesoteric said:


> Were these regular seeds or feminized? If regulars, you'll have quite the male hunt on your hands in a couple weeks. Cheers.


These are all feminized seeds.


----------



## indicat33 (Mar 6, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I know these 1st set of picture suck...but it's my first time so I'm still learning how to use the site.


The pics don't suck, they show many seedlings sprouting - Happy Growing !


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 9, 2015)

*Chapter 2: Day 38 Update*

Was not able to get a replacement for the Eye Blue MH bulb so we're using the HPS now.
Satified...if you happen to read this, do you think you can help me with the camera? I tried to get into the White Balance menu and it said based on the camera's current settings the White Balance is unavailable. So...sorry for the orange pic's guys.

Well, we're progressing I guess. Seem to be about 1 week behind where we where in Chapter 1.
I watered with 10 gallons of PH'd only water this morning and I got about 5 gallons of run-off. Will be making a considerable nute jump tomorrow...about 50% stronger than what they have been getting. They look hungry and ready to eat.
*
Thunder Tub: *83 out of 84 alive
*Skunk Tub: *84 out of 84 alive


----------



## sky rocket (Mar 9, 2015)

You almost can't see the medium. Do you hand feed them from the top and let the nutes run down til it drains off?


----------



## Mohican (Mar 10, 2015)

What camera are you using?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 10, 2015)

Mohican said:


> What camera are you using?


Nikon D3200


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 10, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> You almost can't see the medium. Do you hand feed them from the top and let the nutes run down til it drains off?


Yep.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 10, 2015)

Some updated pictures using Nikon's Capture NX-D software and shooting the photos in RAW format. I think they turned out pretty good seeing as they are under an HPS.

In some future posts I will probably start talking about my prototype that dives into the world of automation and some plans.


----------



## akhiymjames (Mar 10, 2015)

Looking great bro. Those babies are really starting to fill in. Can't wait to see them in the future and hear of your automation plans


----------



## Uzzi (Mar 10, 2015)

Prototype?


----------



## bf80255 (Mar 10, 2015)

thats a pretty good idea youve got going there with the tubs bro, you dont think the center plants will get more light and kind of skew the data though? since you cant rotate or take the center plants to the outside theyll always be directly under the bulb right?


----------



## Mohican (Mar 10, 2015)

Nice camera!

Are you using a Robot arm for the camera?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 10, 2015)

bf80255 said:


> thats a pretty good idea youve got going there with the tubs bro, you dont think the center plants will get more light and kind of skew the data though? since you cant rotate or take the center plants to the outside theyll always be directly under the bulb right?


Well...most of what I've been trying is to answer those very types of questions. I have the blockbuster reflector which does a pretty darned good job of spreading the light but you're right...will always have maximum intensity in the middle. We'll see!


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 10, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Nice camera!
> 
> Are you using a Robot arm for the camera?


Thanks! I got this on Sativied's recommendation. No robot arm...I'm just point and clicking.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 10, 2015)

Uzzi said:


> Prototype?


So here is the prototype. More of a proof of concept really.

The picture below is a USB relay connected to 4 electrical receptacles.
I have a server here at home that has a couple of web cams connected to it. Part of the prototype involves being able to show multiple web cameras in a web browser and be able to interact with them. Yeah yeah, I know this is nothing impressive but it's something I've never actually done and wanted to learn how to do.

 




The next picture is the demo webpage I made that lives on my server and has a domain name mapped to it so I can easily access it from any device anywhere.
It is showing the 2 webcam images and over on the left I have radio buttons that can turn on and off the 4 electrical outlets.


When I turn on Circuit #3 from the web page, it turns that relay on and wallah, we have power to that outlet.


Being a programmer by trade, this is something entirely new for me but it has got me really excited. There are all kinds of cool stuff you can get that can be controlled in this way. Being able to turn water on and off. Dispense nutrients. Run drip systems on timers. View anything in real time and make adjustments on the fly. You get the idea


----------



## Uzzi (Mar 10, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Being a programmer by trade, this is something entirely new for me but it has got me really excited. There are all kinds of cool stuff you can get that can be controlled in this way. Being able to turn water on and off. Dispense nutrients. Run drip systems on timers. View anything in real time and make adjustments on the fly. You get the idea


 I love the sound of this type of stuff. I'm away a lot for work so bought one of those cameras you can operate through an IP address from any device anywhere. Having a live feed that anyone could hack into made me nervous though, so I never hooked it up...


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 10, 2015)

Uzzi said:


> I love the sound of this type of stuff. I'm away a lot for work so bought one of those cameras you can operate through an IP address from any device anywhere. Having a live feed that anyone could hack into made me nervous though, so I never hooked it up...


Sure...as with everything, gotta be really careful. The best I can come up as far as protecting this would be to make sure it's running with an SSL certificate, require logging in and probably restrict by IP address too. That should be pretty safe.


----------



## Mohican (Mar 10, 2015)

That is so friggin awesome!

Automation of a grow is the next step! With grows going commercial and simulated Dawn, Morning, Afternoon, Evening, and Dusk lighting being so important to good flower development along with temperature, water, nutes, airflow, CO2 levels...

That is some amazing work HDS!

Cheers,
Mo


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 10, 2015)

Mohican said:


> That is so friggin awesome!
> 
> Automation of a grow is the next step! With grows going commercial and simulated Dawn, Morning, Afternoon, Evening, and Dusk lighting being so important to good flower development along with temperature, water, nutes, airflow, CO2 levels...
> 
> ...


Thanks man. Its all just an idea at this point but now that I have a better understanding of how to do it, it does not seem so daunting. The programming is unbelievably easy too.


----------



## Mohican (Mar 10, 2015)

I won't wifi/cloud anything like that. Hard wired only. I will wifi/cloud the status and alerts to my cell phone.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 11, 2015)

*Chapter 2: Day 40 Update*

Yesterday I increased the nutrients to 80% of the Week 3 schedule which was about a 50% increase. They look perfectly fine this morning so that's great.
While I am not pleased with the overall growth rate (they seem to be at least a full week behind where they were in the 1st Chapter), I am pleased with the relative consistency in height. I've done a small amount of leaf tucking here and there but I want to keep that to a minimum as this experiment really needs to tell me how well this many plants in a small space can do.

RH has been at or slightly above 70% during the night in the tent which is disturbing. I've been running the 750 CFM tent exhaust at about 50% but today I cranked it up to 100%. Temps in the tent are between 68 and 72 with lights on and 59 with lights off. The room the tent is in is very steady...59 degrees and 50% RH. I wish I could bring the temps up a little more but I simply cannot right now.

*Thunder Tub: *83 out of 84 alive (Tub on the left)
*Skunk Tub: *84 out of 84 alive (Tub on the right)


----------



## Mohican (Mar 11, 2015)

Are you blowing air into the soil? I was just wondering what the fittings are on the side of your bins.

I have found that my plants grow faster when I get the soil temps up to 78 F.

I have always wondered whether it would help to water with warm water.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 11, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Are you blowing air into the soil? I was just wondering what the fittings are on the side of your bins.
> 
> I have found that my plants grow faster when I get the soil temps up to 78 F.
> 
> I have always wondered whether it would help to water with warm water.


The fittings were intended to be used for drainage hempy style. They are 2.25" up front the bottom but the wire mesh i installed on the inside to prevent the medium from running out is far too restrictive and the tubs don't drain well so they are not being used any more. I've been watering with warmish water to help with the cold temps. This damn cold winter is giving me less than ideal environmental conditions.


----------



## Mohican (Mar 11, 2015)

I blow hot air on my containers to help keep the temps up in my cabinet. I forgot about it last week and kinda fried a few leaves on on of my clones!


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 12, 2015)

Mohican said:


> I blow hot air on my containers to help keep the temps up in my cabinet. I forgot about it last week and kinda fried a few leaves on on of my clones!


Where does the hot air come from?


----------



## Mr.Head (Mar 12, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Where does the hot air come from?


He's married. BAZINGA!

Sorry mo had to


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 12, 2015)

Mr.Head said:


> He's married. BAZINGA!
> 
> Sorry mo had to


Bazinga...Sheldon?


----------



## Mr.Head (Mar 12, 2015)




----------



## Mohican (Mar 12, 2015)

Hahaha! Good one!

I use an old small ceramic heater. Doesn't get above 100 so it can't start fires as easily as the red hot coils.

Cheers,
Mo


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## Mohican (Mar 12, 2015)

Here is a pic - little black cube in front:



Cheers,
Mo


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 13, 2015)

*Chapter 2: Day 42 Update*

I watered and fed right after I took these photographs. Bumped up the nutes to 100% of the Week 3 Schedule. They have definitely kicked it into high gear. I expect to see some pistols any day now. For now, everything is going pretty well. Have not had any further component failures...knock on wood. RH is being kept in check. Temps are OK...which they were a little warmer but still OK. Odor controls are functioning properly. Should start to get a little exciting in a few more days as they enter the stretch!
*
Thunder Tub: *83 out of 84 alive
*Skunk Tub: *84 out of 84 alive


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## skunkwreck (Mar 13, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 2: Day 42 Update*
> 
> I watered and fed right after I took these photographs. Bumped up the nutes to 100% of the Week 3 Schedule. They have definitely kicked it into high gear. I expect to see some pistols any day now. For now, everything is going pretty well. Have not had any further component failures...knock on wood. RH is being kept in check. Temps are OK...which they were a little warmer but still OK. Odor controls are functioning properly. Should start to get a little exciting in a few more days as they enter the stretch!
> *Thunder Tub: *83 out of 84 alive
> ...


Now that's awesome bro !

dluck


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 13, 2015)

1st pistols spotted


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## skunkwreck (Mar 13, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> 1st pistols spotted


It's on now


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## skunkwreck (Mar 13, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> 1st pistols spotted


I just flipped mine 3 days ago to sex them ....don't you just love seeing that first pistil!


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## sky rocket (Mar 13, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> 1st pistols spotted


Wich strain was the pistol from? I guess roughly 35-42 days you can expect to see pistols from seeds of 12/12?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 13, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> Wich strain was the pistol from? I guess roughly 35-42 days you can expect to see pistols from seeds of 12/12?


From the left tub...Chronic Thunder. I have not done a thorough inspection so I cannot guarantee it happened today. There could be some in the Skunk tub too.
In my 1st chapter, I used Day 33 as the start of flowering day #1 so these have definitely taken longer. My next update will be Sunday or Monday and depending on when a significant percentage is showing pistols, that's probably what I'll call day #1.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 15, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 44
Flowering Day 1*

The girls are really exploding and there are enough pistols that today is the official flowering day number 1. Will be getting another aggressive feed either tonight or tomorrow morning. Will be watering with a few more gallons of water too for a little extra flush/run-off.
*
Thunder Tub: *83 out of 84 alive
*Skunk Tub: *84 out of 84 alive


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## Mohican (Mar 15, 2015)

Look how big they are getting!

If you had lime green totes your grow room would all be color coordinated!


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## sky rocket (Mar 15, 2015)

What strain(s) are you running in your solo cups?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 15, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> What strain(s) are you running in your solo cups?


Mosca Seeds Cinderella 99 BX-1
G13 Labs Pineapple Express
Nirvana Seeds AK 48
Bodhi Seeds Blue Tara


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## Mr.Head (Mar 15, 2015)

I'll get some new pics of my topped synergy up tonight, it's started the flower stretch and looks great. will be fimming the orange Kush's in the next 3-4 days. Will post pics of them too when I do it.


Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Mosca Seeds Cinderella 99 BX-1
> G13 Labs Pineapple Express
> Nirvana Seeds AK 48
> Bodhi Seeds Blue Tara


----------



## DirtyNerd (Mar 15, 2015)

Looking great as always bro i can't wait to see some big fat colas i must say its amazing how they are almost the same level that's good genetics for you


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 15, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Looking great as always bro i can't wait to see some big fat colas i must say its amazing how they are almost the same level that's good genetics for you


Thanks man! It's really hard to tell without digging thru the jungle how many might be a little smaller and shaded. I'm not going to mess with them all that much. If a bunch end up being shaded then I will have learned that 16 per sq/ft is too close. lol

Figure about 1 more week until they are around 2 feet tall so it's gunna get exciting!


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 16, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 45
Flowering Day 2*

Continuing my trend of watering every 3 days. I watered and fed right after I took these pictures. Did 50% strength on Week 1 of the flowering schedule. It's a pretty aggressive feed and there is a little risk it could be a little hot but I feel pretty confident that it's going to be the perfect amount. One thing I got lazy on in Chapter 1 was checking the PH as I increased nutes. The more nutes I add, the lower the PH goes so I won't ever make that mistake again. Did 12 gallons of water and am hoping for 4 or 5 gallons of run-off. I'm still learning how to manage tubs of this size.
*
Thunder Tub: *83 out of 84 alive
*Skunk Tub: *84 out of 84 alive


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 18, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 47
Flowering Day 4*

Previous feeding went well. There are a few plants that have very minor signs of nute burn but I'm talking like 3 or 4. It's probably time for a thorough flush and then another aggressive feeding a day or two later. Collectively, they are jamming. There are quite a few that are now beneath the canopy and may get left behind. It's very hard to say exactly how many.


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## DirtyNerd (Mar 18, 2015)

Great growth from the last update i can't wait to see root ball in the tub at the end always great to watch bro keep up the good work


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 19, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Great growth from the last update i can't wait to see root ball in the tub at the end always great to watch bro keep up the good work


I'm already formulating some new ideas. I'm eagerly watching My. Head's experiment involving topping/fimming TTFS.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 19, 2015)

I just ran 17 gallons of PH only water through. For you coco growers, can you enlighten me on flushing? In my 1st experiment I only really flushed them a couple of times primarily because the small containers I used held very small amounts of water. I would typically water with 5 gallons and get 3.5 to 4 gallons of run-off which is kind of like flushing on every watering.

With these big containers I'm now using, I've been watering with an average of about 10 gallons every 3 days and I typically get 2 to 3 gallons of run-off.
Knowing that, what would you suggest my regiment be? Also, when you do flush with plain water, how long do you wait to water with nutes again?

Note: I'm not talking about end of the harvest flushing. I'm talking about periodic flushing of the coco to help prevent build-up of salts.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 20, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 49
Flowering Day 6*

Watered with 10 gallons and 50% strength of the Week #1 flowering schedule. With yesterday's aggressive flush, I did not want them being deprived of food for very long. In the future, I think I'll include a small amount of food instead of plain water. The girls are definitely bumping elbows and competing for light.


----------



## bf80255 (Mar 20, 2015)

I know in a week your population will be cut in half but do you think that will be enough? I see quite a few seedlings around the edges getting snuffed for light already.


----------



## Wajimaya (Mar 20, 2015)

Hey, I'm a bit behind, but I'm reading through your journal. Looks awesome man! will be following.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 20, 2015)

bf80255 said:


> I know in a week your population will be cut in half but do you think that will be enough? I see quite a few seedlings around the edges getting snuffed for light already.


These are all actually feminized...no males. We'll see!


----------



## sky rocket (Mar 20, 2015)

Man I hope you don't run into any problems because those girls are throwing bows for space...btw....they are looking good. So far what are your ppm 's in flowering?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 20, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> Man I hope you don't run into any problems because those girls are throwing bows for space...btw....they are looking good. So far what are your ppm 's in flowering?


I haven't tested the PPM's...I'm kind of going on experience from last time. I'll break out my TDS meter next watering and let ya know.


----------



## bf80255 (Mar 21, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> These are all actually feminized...no males. We'll see!


WOW! thats gunna be a handful! haha 
Im sure you can handle it though, you seem to be doing very well.
makes this journal even more interesting!


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 21, 2015)

bf80255 said:


> WOW! thats gunna be a handful! haha
> Im sure you can handle it though, you seem to be doing very well.
> makes this journal even more interesting!


Based on how the 1st experiment went, once they can get thru the stretch, the crowding factor actually becomes diminished. I know that sounds counter intuitive. Contemplating spending an hour studying them tonight and might do some fan leaf pruning.


----------



## bf80255 (Mar 21, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Based on how the 1st experiment went, once they can get thru the stretch, the crowding factor actually becomes diminished. I know that sounds counter intuitive. Contemplating spending an hour studying them tonight and might do some fan leaf pruning.


no i get you, I breed high numbers in small spaces myself.
i let them start to yellow a bit unless its going to be a uniform lateral pruning because itll skew your data if you snip some and leave others, wouldnt you agree?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 21, 2015)

bf80255 said:


> no i get you, I breed high numbers in small spaces myself.
> i let them start to yellow a bit unless its going to be a uniform lateral pruning because itll skew your data if you snip some and leave others, wouldnt you agree?


It certainly might. Not really sure what impact removing a couple of fans from the biggest ones would have.


----------



## bf80255 (Mar 21, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> It certainly might. Not really sure what impact removing a couple of fans from the biggest ones would have.


thats the million dollar RIU question, how many threads have you seen on defoliation? I hear at least 5 differeing views everytime I stupidly go into one of those haha I just dont like to give anyone an unfair advantage or cripple someone for being "too good"


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 21, 2015)

bf80255 said:


> thats the million dollar RIU question, how many threads have you seen on defoliation? I hear at least 5 differeing views everytime I stupidly go into one of those haha I just dont like to give anyone an unfair advantage or cripple someone for being "too good"


Lol...yes, I have seen several and I participated in one shortly after joining and had to bail due to the negativity and bad vibes.


----------



## Sativied (Mar 21, 2015)

You're obviously in a rather unique situation here to which those defoliation discussions hardly apply. The controversy is largely about removing a leaf from one plant to allow for more light on the same plant. If you can however remove one large flap to completely unshade nearly an entire plant next to it... As I mentioned in some of them, removing some leaves can improve situations that typically should have been avoided in the first place, and then I'm usually referring to situations with 'less' plants on the same space.

Imo, unless you are worried about PM (condensation from overlapping/touching leaves) or bud rot (from high humidity) later on, I would keep it to a minimum. Cut off only the middle finger of the larger ones.  Well, the dilemma there is that pm thrives on damaged plants, so wounding them all a little bit isn't a good idea either. Good luck whatever you decide to do.


----------



## mrhappyme (Mar 21, 2015)

what a cracking thread!!! really hats off to you bud


----------



## bf80255 (Mar 21, 2015)

Sativied said:


> You're obviously in a rather unique situation here to which those defoliation discussions hardly apply. The controversy is largely about removing a leaf from one plant to allow for more light on the same plant. If you can however remove one large flap to completely unshade nearly an entire plant next to it... As I mentioned in some of them, removing some leaves can improve situations that typically should have been avoided in the first place, and then I'm usually referring to situations with 'less' plants on the same space.
> 
> Imo, unless you are worried about PM (condensation from overlapping/touching leaves) or bud rot (from high humidity) later on, I would keep it to a minimum. Cut off only the middle finger of the larger ones.  Well, the dilemma there is that pm thrives on damaged plants, so wounding them all a little bit isn't a good idea either. Good luck whatever you decide to do.


man I havent had PM since I was real young in the game lol that shit used to be rampant because I was a sloppy little bitch.
yeah man I agree, but your trying to find the most efficient plant in the bunch right @Hot Diggity Sog I think lopping leaves is definitely handicapping, but its not my grow so whattyu think youll do diggity?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 22, 2015)

bf80255 said:


> man I havent had PM since I was real young in the game lol that shit used to be rampant because I was a sloppy little bitch.
> yeah man I agree, but your trying to find the most efficient plant in the bunch right @Hot Diggity Sog I think lopping leaves is definitely handicapping, but its not my grow so whattyu think youll do diggity?


I'm not sure what I'll do yet. I just try and react and make the best decisions I can as things come up. I'm not really trying to find the best plant out of the bunch. I'm trying to average 10 grams per plant for the whole bunch.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 22, 2015)

Going to the hydro store today to finally get a replacement for my Eye Hortilux Blue. We're going back to this metal halide bulb again 
Next photo update prolly tomorrow morning.


----------



## glockdoc (Mar 22, 2015)

would u be happy with 7g per plant?!


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 22, 2015)

glockdoc said:


> would u be happy with 7g per plant?!


I would be happy. That would come out to 1.96 gpw.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 23, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 52
Flowering Day 9*

I replaced the HPS light with a brand spankin new Eye Hortilux Blue. I just can't say enough good things about this bulb. I took 2 pictures right when the lights came on. I will be doing a 50% strength Week #2 flowering feed in just a few minutes and will take follow up pictures soon. I expect that within 8 hours of being under this light, the leaves are going to be shooting upwards and that rich lush green will start to return.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 23, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> Man I hope you don't run into any problems because those girls are throwing bows for space...btw....they are looking good. So far what are your ppm 's in flowering?


I measured PPM's today and wow...it's pretty agressive. With my well water, my PH pen says around 760 PPM. The pen I have uses the 0.5 conversion scale so I'm just over 1.5 EC. I have noticed about 3 plants that have very minor spots on a fan leaf but certainly nothing drastic. I just went back to the 1st chapter and was reading some of the great posts you guys left and one in particular was from James and he said 1.3 was a standard number I should use and 1.5 would be considered aggressive. I think on the next feed I'll tone it back just a smidge...But as usual, depending on how they look in 2 or 3 days that could change...lol


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 24, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update - Minor Catastrophe
Day 53
Flowering Day 10*

So losing the battle to cold temps and difficult to manage humidity, especially after watering, I decided to take drastic actions. I disassembled my exhaust setup and did a full reconfiguration. In doing so, I managed to drop the 40 pound carbon filter right on top of the Chronic Thunder's. By utter miracle, the filter landed upright for the most part and not horizontally. Only 12 plants suffered its wrath. If this was a production run I would be livid but since I'm still trying out techniques I'm actually not that upset. More embarrassed than anything.

Regarding the exhaust configuration, my old design was Carbon filter --> Sealed Reflector --> Out of tent --> Fan.
I changed this to remove the reflector entirely. The glass came off and now its simply Carbon Filter --> Out of tent --> Fan.

This change bumped my temps 12 degrees and lowered my RH by 20% within 20 minutes. Seems to be running stable at 75 degrees now with the exhaust fan at about 50% strength.
Some misc pics as well as some shots of the carnage.


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## Mr.Head (Mar 24, 2015)

Looking great man. Accidents happen  Thank god Cannabis is strong


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## Nc87 (Mar 24, 2015)

Advanced super cropping I like it! Awesome grow man doesn't look bad at all carry on

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Rollitup mobile app


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 26, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 55
Flowering Day 12*

Girls are in full blown stretch. Canopy top is now averaging 22 inches for the Chronic Thunder's and 21 inches for the Skunk #1's. Many of the plants that were beneath the canopy have begun to catch up. I've been removing some fan leaves here and there to assist in this but nothing drastic.

I don't know if you will be able to tell in these pictures, but the close proximity is starting to become *less* of a problem now as I had hoped/predicted. I will focus on this topic next update.

Watered 12 gallons @40% strength...toned back the strength just a tad.


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## DirtyNerd (Mar 26, 2015)

Looking awesome sorry to hear about the filter looks like the girls have recovered from that and its a full house great job


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 26, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Looking awesome sorry to hear about the filter looks like the girls have recovered from that and its a full house great job


Well...accidents happen. Thanks, they are doing great. They are clearly happier after the temps have risen so I'm really excited. Few more weeks before we can start seeing some candy


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## DirtyNerd (Mar 26, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Well...accidents happen. Thanks, they are doing great. They are clearly happier after the temps have risen so I'm really excited. Few more weeks before we can start seeing some candy


Yeah is the trouble from when the lights are on or off or both i got my 1000 up and running yesterday and the heat went up a lot i think i might change it back to the 600 till i flower as i run my lights at night and can control the temps a lot better then weed is awesome you treat it mean and it loves it :S like a crazy lady

Temps went from 600w 74 - 1000w 84 lights on


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 26, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Yeah is the trouble from when the lights are on or off or both i got my 1000 up and running yesterday and the heat went up a lot i think i might change it back to the 600 till i flower as i run my lights at night and can control the temps a lot better then weed is awesome you treat it mean and it loves it :S like a crazy lady
> 
> Temps went from 600w 74 - 1000w 84 lights on


Wow...that is a big difference.


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## DirtyNerd (Mar 26, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Wow...that is a big difference.


Yeah i only use a bat wing reflector as i am not a fan of the cool tubes i have don't a grow a couple of times with mid 80s and still done well when i was running the 2x600 watt so i am sure it will work it self up anyway keep up the great job


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## akhiymjames (Mar 26, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Yeah is the trouble from when the lights are on or off or both i got my 1000 up and running yesterday and the heat went up a lot i think i might change it back to the 600 till i flower as i run my lights at night and can control the temps a lot better then weed is awesome you treat it mean and it loves it :S like a crazy lady
> 
> Temps went from 600w 74 - 1000w 84 lights on


Tbh those temps aren't bad if you have enough air circulation in the room plus those temps will mimic outdoors some and should help bring out some resin more to protect from the heat. Also I noticed higher temps bring out the sativa characteristics more as my Blue Dream gave off crazy haze smell in the upper 80s but low 80s upper 70s she was more Blueberry candy smell. I fell in veg long as it doesn't get into he 90s I'm good but mid 80s isn't bad for flower IMHO and when temp does drop you get some good colors from it being in the higher upper range


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## Mohican (Mar 26, 2015)

My LA Con got more cheesy smelling when it got cold outside.

The Hortilux Eye Blue is looking killer!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 26, 2015)

Mohican said:


> My LA Con got more cheesy smelling when it got cold outside.
> 
> The Hortilux Eye Blue is looking killer!


It really is man. I know they are really expensive but if you don't mind the cost, give one a try sometime.


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## Mohican (Mar 26, 2015)

I did for a second Then I returned them and went the LED route:











Cheers,
Mo


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## akhiymjames (Mar 27, 2015)

eastwesthydro.com they have the cheapest Hortilux bulbs that I can find anywhere. Totally legit and can't beat the prices


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 29, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 58
Flowering Day 15*

Some pretty nice pistol development happening. Damned bulb did not come on again this morning so the HPS is back in (hence the poor pictures). I'm now convinced the ceramic mogul needs some inspection which I will do 1st thing tomorrow morning. If I'm right then I've got 3 functional MH bulbs...lol

Chronic Thunder canopy is about 26" and the Skunk #1 is about 24". Most of the remaining height should come in the form of main cola's. I'm expecting a 32" finishing height.
*
  *


----------



## Mohican (Mar 29, 2015)

Look at them stretch!


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## akhiymjames (Mar 29, 2015)

Looking good bro. Those girls are stretching madly. Canopy is pretty even for most part. Love the way this going and can't wait to see finished results. Keep it up bro


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 29, 2015)

The small fan that you can see in the 1st picture...I have 4 of them but only 2 are currently running. In the next few days I will be connecting all 4 and I will probably position them just above the tubs so the under growth is getting plenty of air flow. In addition, I will be increasing my tent exhaust to 100%. My exhaust is 450 CFM which is way overkill for a 4' x 4' tent. Providing I can keep humidity in check (which I'm pretty sure I can) I'm confident there won't be any risk of mold despite the extreme close proximity.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 29, 2015)

I went down and turned off the light. Removed the bulb and inspected the inside of the mogul. I don't know the terms for the components of a light socket but when you look inside you have the threaded part and then you have the solid piece at the very end in the middle. That solid piece is held in place by thin sheet metal and can easily be bent. I decided to bend it out a little bit just to see if the Blue MH would strike. It did not.

I then plugged in my backup ballast, an inexpensive iPower digital ballast, and it fired right up.
Here is the summary and if anyone could offer some theories as to what is going on I would sure appreciate it.

*Apollo Ballast:*
Eye Hortilux Blue - Worked for 100 days or so but not now
iPower HPS - Works
iPower MH - Works

*SolisTek Ballast:*
Eye Hortilux Blue - Worked for 57 days but no more
iPower HPS - Works
iPower MH - Works

*iPower Ballast:*
Eye Hortilux Blue - Works
iPower HPS - Works
iPower MH - Works

What in the world could be causing not one, but two ballasts to be incapable of firing this Hortilux Blue MH bulb after a period of time? Clearly the bulb is fine as the iPower ballast fires it fine.


----------



## glockdoc (Mar 29, 2015)

burn position?!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 29, 2015)

glockdoc said:


> burn position?!


Wacha mean? As in the digital setting on the ballast? I always run the ballast at the normal intended wattage/strength.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 29, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Looking good bro. Those girls are stretching madly. Canopy is pretty even for most part. Love the way this going and can't wait to see finished results. Keep it up bro


Thanks man. Having so many plants, I have to say I am very pleased with the canopy evenness so far. It's very difficult to tell how many are beneath the canopy tho. Might not really know til the very end when we start counting cola's!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 29, 2015)

Some more pictures 

#1 - Chronic Thunder close-up
#2 - Skunk #1 close-up

3, 4 and 5 are shots of underneath the canopy. Picture #4 turned out really cool...I hope you like this one


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## akhiymjames (Mar 29, 2015)

The undershot is so cool!!! Looks like your walking through a forest of Cannabis Trees. I'll walk through that forest any day  Are you gonna do any defoil on them so air circulation is good. I know you got the four fans in there so hopefully you don't have to


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 29, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> The undershot is so cool!!! Looks like your walking through a forest of Cannabis Trees. I'll walk through that forest any day  Are you gonna do any defoil on them so air circulation is good. I know you got the four fans in there so hopefully you don't have to


I'm hoping to not have to. I'm trying to avoid significant man-hours during this journey. I am doing minor daily defoliating on top but not too much.


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## Mr.Head (Mar 29, 2015)

Find the prettiest girls and grab clones from lowers!

Absolutely gorgeous man, such a pretty sight. Well done keeping them all pretty!


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## sky rocket (Mar 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> The small fan that you can see in the 1st picture...I have 4 of them but only 2 are currently running. In the next few days I will be connecting all 4 and I will probably position them just above the tubs so the under growth is getting plenty of air flow. In addition, I will be increasing my tent exhaust to 100%. My exhaust is 450 CFM which is way overkill for a 4' x 4' tent. Providing I can keep humidity in check (which I'm pretty sure I can) I'm confident there won't be any risk of mold despite the extreme close proximity.


Overkill I have a 4x4 tent as well and I have a 720 cfm exhaust fan....lol...sounds like a jet fan with a silencer on it....


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 2, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 62
Flowering Day 19*

Kind of a boring update. They probably need another 10 days before they start looking pretty. Watered with 14 gallons @45% strength right after these pictures. Also plucked probably 100 fan leaves. Chronic Thunder canopy height is 30" and Skunk #1 is 28".


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## Sativied (Apr 2, 2015)

Really nice job 'feeding' them so far. Looks like they're pretty much done stretching too.



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> View attachment 3383765


Reminds me of the House of the Flying Daggers.


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## sky rocket (Apr 2, 2015)

Looking good. I'm on day 10-11 of my sog. I just started to see bud development on my girls. I started my ppm's around 750 ish. I'm going to somewhat copycat your grow in about 35 days.


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## Mohican (Apr 2, 2015)

Look at all of those flowers!


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## akhiymjames (Apr 3, 2015)

Look at those ladies reach for the heavens!!! Great work bro. Fun part is just beginning let's see how these look when those buds start swelling all over the place. Keep it up man


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 3, 2015)

Looks like they are not done stretching. Starting to get a little concerned about height. But yes, I cannot wait for flowers!!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 4, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 64
Flowering Day 21*

Chronic Thunder canopy height is 35" and Skunk #1 is 31". Will be watering tomorrow with the Week #4 schedule at 40 to 45%. I've managed to move the reflector as high as it can go and I'm going to have some difficult decisions to make very soon. They are already taller than I anticipated and they just keep growing up. What I may be forced to do is remove everything from the tent altogether. I have 9 feet ceilings so if I move them out I can manage the height. Odor control should still be OK as the room they are in is carbon filtered as well. Downsides will be colder temps and no reflective surrounding but I can always rig something up. The colder temps worry me the most. What do you guys think?


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## Sativied (Apr 4, 2015)

What's the distance between the light and plants at the moment? And how cold would it get outside of the tent? Main thing that would worry me with cold is cold wet roots, especially with so many plants in a tub.

I had major height issues once and ended buying a spreader, not the one from adjust-a-wing (although that might work depending on what hood you use) but a transparent one. Can't find a pic online... It would obviously come with a loss but far less than for example switching to 400w.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 4, 2015)

Sativied said:


> What's the distance between the light and plants at the moment? And how cold would it get outside of the tent? Main thing that would worry me with cold is cold wet roots, especially with so many plants in a tub.
> 
> I had major height issues once and ended buying a spreader, not the one from adjust-a-wing (although that might work depending on what hood you use) but a transparent one. Can't find a pic online... It would obviously come with a loss but far less than for example switching to 400w.


Basement temps have climbed from 46 to 50. According to Accuweather, I've got another 10 days or so of mid 40's outside and then projected mid 60's after that. I have an oil radiator heater that I've been using on and off. Thinking about positioning the passive intake ducting to blow through the heater onto the plants. I've brought the temps up in the room by having the room exhaust only kick on once per hour for 15 minutes. If I lose the tent then I'll have to have the room exhaust on 24/7

Edit: I'll measure tomorrow but approximately 14 inches is my guess. My glass is removed so it's hotter directly underneath.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 4, 2015)

This experiment is going to be a bust...I kind of already know it. Maybe I'll just pull the tubs out, slap another 600 on them and look to have a modest harvest to recoup some expenses and move on to the 3rd chapter which will be DRAMATICALLY different.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 4, 2015)

I wonder what (30) 2x4's and 120 feet of 4 inch PVC pipe is going to be used for?
Sneak peak coming soon


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 5, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 65
Flowering Day 22*

I was able to eek out a few more inches on my reflector so I'll wait and see how we're doing on height before I make any rash decisions.
Did a 12 gallon water with 40% of the final feed schedule.
Began the process of removing lower growth. This is going to be a lot of work.
Also got a little more aggressive with fan leaf removal up on top.

The Skunk #1's are a little further along with flower development than the Chronic Thunder's. After looking back over the 1st chapter, the Chronic Thunder's were behind as well which makes me feel a little better because all in all, things seem to be progressing pretty slowly.


*A Skunk #1 with some interesting yellow colors up on top.*




*Another Skunk #1. The camera focused on a fan leaf so the flower is out of focus but I kind of liked this picture so I'm sharing.*


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## Mohican (Apr 5, 2015)

Looks pretty awesome still! Gotta try stuff so you can learn


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## bf80255 (Apr 5, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 2 Update
> Day 65
> Flowering Day 22*
> 
> ...



Looking great bro!
I think im going to try this out with a few tubs outdoors with autos! seems to work pretty well thanks for the inspiration bud!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 5, 2015)

bf80255 said:


> Looking great bro!
> I think im going to try this out with a few tubs outdoors with autos! seems to work pretty well thanks for the inspiration bud!


A little too early to tell for sure but 3" x 3" might be a tad bit tight...lol


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## bf80255 (Apr 8, 2015)

trying it with tomatos first  
you like?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 8, 2015)

bf80255 said:


> trying it with tomatos first
> you like?


Dude, that's awesome! What do you think so far?


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## bf80255 (Apr 8, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Dude, that's awesome! What do you think so far?


I love the simplicity of just dropping a tray into a tub and lettin them go!
I also love how I can run higher numbers to find what Im after and still get a good representation (albeit miniature) of the individual plants for selection without having to waste time watering hella individual cups.

thanks again for the idea bro.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 8, 2015)

Today would normally be my every 3rd day update but the girls are chugging along at a pretty slow clip so I'm wait til Friday or Saturday. In the meantime I thought I would share what I'm working on for the next run. It's gunna be probably 3 or 4 weeks before it's built and tested but I'm super excited.


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## Mohican (Apr 8, 2015)

That looks amazing!

Where did you get the clips?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 8, 2015)

Mohican said:


> That looks amazing!
> 
> Where did you get the clips?


Got the clips from a local hardware store. They're Oatey J-Hook Pipe Holders.

This has been a lot of trial and error. From framing it 3 different ways to the layout of the pipe, it's a work in progress. Had intended to have 1 continuous pipe like a spring but it caused too much tension on the joints so I'm currently rethinking it. Either way, I intend on having 6 rows, 8 sites per row...duh, it's an octagon, with 7 sites per section.
Total Capacity: 56 per row or 336 plants. Will be doing this with a single 600 hung vertically with no reflector.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 8, 2015)

This is my 1st prototype with an Arduino board and a water flow rate sensor. The water from the reservoir will pass through this on the way to the PVC pipe. I was able to finish writing the sketch as well as the .NET code to talk to the Arduino and I have functional code running as a desktop app as well as a web page that reports water flow in real-time. Think: If my pump dies, I better get a Text message immediately


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## Sativied (Apr 8, 2015)

Nice, I hoped to see what I see above when you announced your new project. I look forward to seeing it in action.


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## ActionHanks (Apr 8, 2015)

Oooooo this looks really good. I actually just took down my 4inch pcv vert NFT(too hot right now for anything but soil), i like your style. I was running it 12 12 from seed... to get more seeds lol. Think i had 35 strains in a 3x3 area with a piddly lil 125watts lol

Im really interested in ardiunos as well. I really wish i had more time to work on sensors and diy lights, but ive been slammed at work. How much was the flow attatchment/sensor, i know the ardis are relatively cheap


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 8, 2015)

ActionHanks said:


> Oooooo this looks really good. I actually just took down my 4inch pcv vert NFT(too hot right now for anything but soil), i like your style. I was running it 12 12 from seed... to get more seeds lol. Think i had 35 strains in a 3x3 area with a piddly lil 125watts lol
> 
> Im really interested in ardiunos as well. I really wish i had more time to work on sensors and diy lights, but ive been slammed at work. How much was the flow attatchment/sensor, i know the ardis are relatively cheap


Cheap. $13 for the flow sensor
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EVKVM02/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Plan on doing this next round also 12/12 from seed. I won't be running to capacity. This method is going to require some trial and error. I counted all of my female seeds...mostly freebies and I have around 50 or so. I'll be positioning them in such a way to test all of the aspects of the octagon. Each row will be represented and I will probably concentrate most of them on a single side to test the height difference between each row (currently slated at 4 to 5") and the site spacing which will be approximately 4" apart. If the concept works then it's go time.

Edit: And obviously the size of my octagon needs to be tested. Could be too big but I'll find out.


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## sky rocket (Apr 8, 2015)

Hmmmm looks like the coliseum. Looking good.


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## Mohican (Apr 8, 2015)

Have you seen @whodatnation 's dual octagons with a light mover lowering and raising the bare vertical bulbs?


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## DogEatWeedWorld (Apr 9, 2015)

Here is one from a guy at another forum... unfortunately it appears the guy got pinched afterwards.

http://www.420magazine.com/forums/do-yourself/130694-diy-recirculating-dwc-pvc-tube.html


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 10, 2015)

DogEatWeedWorld said:


> Here is one from a guy at another forum... unfortunately it appears the guy got pinched afterwards.
> 
> http://www.420magazine.com/forums/do-yourself/130694-diy-recirculating-dwc-pvc-tube.html


Ahh Mr. Smith. I read his entire journal...twice.


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## DirtyNerd (Apr 10, 2015)

DIY Vertical grow room that is sexy great job so far looking forward to season 3


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 10, 2015)

Minor octagon update. I decided to scrap the PVC and am going with corrugated drain pipe instead. I find PVC to be a real pain in the ass.
It looks ghetto right now but it won't soon. I'm waiting on a few items from amazon and then I can finish attaching the pipe to the studs to maintain a continuous and even spring shape.

This drain pipe is flexible enough to be able to easily form a circle yet rigid enough to work for this application (I think). Using a hole saw on this material is super easy and clean as well.
Got the exhaust mounted and will have the carbon filter mounted this weekend (pics to come). Then I'll finish the reflectix wrap around the entire thing. For this 1st run I'm going to space the rows 6 inches instead of 4 and go from 6 rows to 5.


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## DirtyNerd (Apr 10, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Minor octagon update. I decided to scrap the PVC and am going with corrugated drain pipe instead. I find PVC to be a real pain in the ass.
> It looks ghetto right now but it won't soon. I'm waiting on a few items from amazon and then I can finish attaching the pipe to the studs to maintain a continuous and even spring shape.
> 
> This drain pipe is flexible enough to be able to easily form a circle yet rigid enough to work for this application (I think). Using a hole saw on this material is super easy and clean as well.
> ...


That is cool how is it going to be with water running have you done a test run to see how the weight and make sure it wont bow.... ? looks strong enough


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 10, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> That is cool how is it going to be with water running have you done a test run to see how the weight and make sure it wont bow.... ? looks strong enough


Not yet but im reasonably confident. If bowing is an issue ill add more vertical 2 x 4's


----------



## Sativied (Apr 10, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I find PVC to be a real pain in the ass.


Why is that? You made a nice start in post #915.

I think you're going to have to use either more hooks, or better, let it rest on some horizontal support, like a helix from gutters or wood.
 
src: https://www.rollitup.org/t/pyros-vertical-rdwc.524679/ 

I think the best example, and the original, is from @Heath Robinson who has a good thread here but the images are missing since the forum software change last year. Googling heath robinson flooded tubes shows plenty of images results though.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 10, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Why is that? You made a nice start in post #915.
> 
> I think you're going to have to use either more hooks, or better, let it rest on some horizontal support, like a helix from gutters or wood.
> View attachment 3392171
> ...


Cool...I had not seen him using this before. I'm going to try my wrap idea 1st and then if I need more support I'll do it.


----------



## Sativied (Apr 10, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Cool...I had not seen him using this before. I'm going to try my wrap idea 1st and then if I need more support I'll do it.


Don't forget to add the future 1.6gpw+ to the weight when you test it


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 10, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Don't forget to add the future 1.6gpw+ to the weight when you test it


haha...that's it? Let's go for 3


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 10, 2015)

Sat...what do you think:

The outer diagonal (E) is 96" (from A to A). Accounting for the width of the 2x4's as well as the pipe, if the light is hung exactly in the center, the distance from the middle of the bulb will be 42 1/2" to the outer edge of the corrugated pipe. Figuring as the plants grow they will want to lean in but what are your thoughts on 42.5". Too far?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 10, 2015)

Octagon update:

Getting the ceiling reflectix put up. I'm overlapping the seams and where there are seams I will run 2x4's on top to prevent bowing. Sorry for the crappy pics.
Also mounted the fan on the outside.


----------



## Sativied (Apr 10, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> haha...that's it? Let's go for 3


I see Heath pulled 2.5 so yeah I should have said 2.6+  And that's just dry weight.



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Figuring as the plants grow they will want to lean in but what are your thoughts on 42.5". Too far?


42.5" to the outer edge seems for 600w a tad too far. Not sure, it actually is... they will indeed lean in but not like 20" or so because they obviously won't grow entirely horizontally.

Are you going to use 2x600w? Ideally you roll out the octagon into a horizontal plane to calculate the surface area. Based on that you can perhaps guesstimate (based on typical HPS use) or calculate the desired total pff to get high yield and not too much fluff.

Just thinking out loud here... 96" dia is roughly 300" circumference, that's 25'. If the "canopy" vertically, of all rows combined, is 5 feet, you have 125sqft to cover. IF it were horizontal that would justify at least 4k of HPS... Obviously not a good comparison, that's kind of the point. What normally would be the top of the canopy is going to be closer than 96" of course. Start for example at the inner side of the pipes, subtract 14" for plant, and the diameter of the canopy is already roughly 40" less. Let's say roughly 56" left, which makes the circumference roughly 16' instead of 25', so 5x 16 = 80sqft surface area. That would in a horizontal setup justify 3kW and without hoods and very little loss from light not reaching the plants 2K could suffice (that's not a suggestion...).

Even if that plant would lean 14" it would leave roughly 28" between plant and bulb. Which is already too much in a horizontal setup, while you can (because no hood concentrating the beam to one end) and should get closer. Adding only 2" to those plants already reduces the surface area of the inner canopy with nearly 10sqft. If the rows of plants will in total be 4feet tall instead of 5 the required total amount of light drops with 20% too.

16sqft is suitable for a great 600watter (stretching it already) horizontally. Let's say in a vertical setup you could be able to stretch that to 20sqft. If you have 2x600watt you could cover perhaps 40sqft, which rolled up in a cylinder of 4 feet tall would leave 10ft circumference is 38 inch diameter (of inner canopy), based on that, adding 14" for both plant and pipe on both sides and the diameter should be roughly 66" instead of 96". That 38" minus bulb self leaves about 18" between plant and bulb. Normal for 600w would be 24", but again that's with a hood concentrating the light to one side, you should get closer, so that 18" could work very well. You have 15" more than that which would make (2x) 1K watter more suitable.

Normally you start with a grow surface and match the light to it, or get a light and match the surface to that. The distance is than the output, while in your case the distance and hence the surface too (although flexible by adding/reducing rows) are inputs, so ideally match the light to that. The distance is not so relevant as long as it's not too close and as long as there's enough light for the surface. Especially in an enclosed vert setup, and as long as the total amount of light on the eventual canopy surface suffices. No place else to go for the light then hit the plants. The higher the distance is, the larger the surface area it shines light on. Too far would mean spreading the light out too much, over "too much plant".

Turned out a bit longer than planned, I hope my stoner math examples makes sense.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 10, 2015)

Sativied said:


> I see Heath pulled 2.5 so yeah I should have said 2.6+  And that's just dry weight.
> 
> 42.5" to the outer edge seems for 600w a tad too far. Not sure, it actually is... they will indeed lean in but not like 20" or so because they obviously won't grow entirely horizontally.
> 
> ...


Nice analysis. I have no plans to alter the octagon at this point and I also won't be using more than 1 bulb. Unless stacked vertically, kind of defeats the purpose. I'll use the 1st go around to gauge the plant lean. I've only ever seen and read about folks doing this from clone. I'll make sure however I decide to mount the bulb will leave lots of flexibility for me to reposition it. I'll likely focus most of my attention on only 1 of the 8 sides. Between bulb spacing and total height of the rows I should learn a lot.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 10, 2015)

Care to take a guess at the number of inches of lean for a 30" to 40" tall plant?
I'm totally guessing but lets say 10 inches. If I want to average 18" in distance, the rows parallel with the bulb could be at perhaps 15" and the upper and lower rows would be low 20's perhaps (ignoring the exact triangular measurements for the moment). That could give me an inner width of 58" (width of Pipe * 2 plus 15" * 2 + 10" stretch * 2). With an inner width (E) of 58" my sides (A) become (58/2.414) or 24". Spaced 4 inches apart I can do 6 plants per row per side or 48 per row. If my rough math is close that's still alot.


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## Sativied (Apr 10, 2015)

That 14" example I used was based on a guess of 10" too but from the center of the pipe and 1 extra just to add small margin. So yeah, I guess about 10". Although that was based on 20-30" plants.

Yeah that's close, I somehow got 22.75" per side so maybe 40 per row instead. And while normally I'd say 4" is too close, that's the difference that makes the comparison with horizontal skewed, the taller your plants, the more they lean, the closer your buds get together. And the smaller your grow surface becomes so the more dense the light. While initially, at their base they are far enough apart to prevent stretch from crowding and need less light. Kinda cool.

Are you counting on having to support the leaning plants? If so, you could perhaps encourage it by placing the plants at a leaning angle to begin with. Not a great example but:


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 10, 2015)

Sativied said:


> That 14" example I used was based on a guess of 10" too but from the center of the pipe and 1 extra just to add small margin. So yeah, I guess about 10". Although that was based on 20-30" plants.
> 
> Yeah that's close, I somehow got 22.75" per side so maybe 40 per row instead. And while normally I'd say 4" is too close, that's the difference that makes the comparison with horizontal skewed, the taller your plants, the more they lean, the closer your buds get together. And the smaller your grow surface becomes so the more dense the light. While initially, at their base they are far enough apart to prevent stretch from crowding and need less light. Kinda cool.
> 
> ...


I am anticipating having to support the leaning plants but have not come up with anything yet. Based on a grow journal done by Mr. Smith I've decided against angling the net pots. He angled them at 30 degrees and said it was a terrible mistake...lowered the level at which overflowing could occur. My plan as of now is to not tilt them and hope they curve out by themselves or ill bend them so they dont hit the pipe above.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 11, 2015)

*Octagon Update*

Nearly finished with the Reflectix. Having never used this stuff before I just can't say enough good things about it. I remember fumbling with Mylar back in the day and that shit sucks compared to this. It is so easy to work with. Takes staples like a champ and appears to be completely light proof (but I'll confirm tonight). Setup is going great. After getting a 600 bulb powered up I have to say I'm really pleased with how much light it *appears* to be giving out. I'm considering adding a bunch more rows now. The next steps are to tape all of the overlapped reflectix seams with foil tape. Secure the access panel with velcro. Get going on the electrical. I'm going to wire the octagon so it is completely self-sufficient and can be powered in one of 2 ways: Directly to a circuit via exposed 14-2 wire as well as by plugging an extension code right into the octagon. More pics on this in the coming days.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 11, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 71
Flowering Day 28*

Well...what can I say. Very slow progress. Not really sure what to make of it. Cold temps are finally breaking where I live and we are in store for some warmer weather which should ultimately translate into warmer tent conditions. Been running 66F lights on and 55F lights off. Just today I'm starting to notice some acceleration in flower development so I'm hopeful they will kick it into high gear.


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## sky rocket (Apr 12, 2015)

Oh my goodness those girls strected....


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 14, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 74
Flowering Day 31*

HPS is back in and I'll probably keep it in for the extra lumens and heat that it offers. Everything is way behind schedule but if you ignore that, things are going great. They started flowering about 10 days later than my 1st experiment and being day 31 they look like day 21. If it just ends up taking longer but the results are the same then I'm ok with that.

Continuing to pluck fan leaves that are shading plants underneath. Probably plucked around 500 so far.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 15, 2015)

*Octagon Update
*
Building a new octagon. The one I built was just too big. Using my Lux meter I determined that each side was simply too far away. The inner length of the current octagon is 90 inches with each of the 8 sides being 37 inches. With the bulb in the middle of the room we have a 44/45 inch distance to each wall and that was only receiving 8500 Lux at the height of the bulb. This number dropped sharply as we measure above and below the bulb.

Using a 600 watt metal halide, I then took various Lux readings at 20" away from the bulb.
1) Directly across from the bulb: 25,000 Lux
2) 8 inches up: 17,500 Lux
3) 20 inches down: 17,500 Lux.

So I've determined (guessed) that I should reduce my octagon width from 90 inches down to 60 inches. This still might be a tad too big but I'm working with incomplete information such as how much lean the plants will have. I've also concluded that the distance between the lowest plant and the highest plant should not exceed 28 inches as the Lux dramatically drops as we move higher and lower from the before mentioned measurements.

Wanting 24 inches from the floor to the bottom most plant and 36 inches from the ceiling to the top most plant I end up with 88 inches in total height which is great. 88 inch 2 x 4's are on the way today.

The other major change worth mentioning is that I have decided against using the entire octagon for the drain pipe design and will instead, use each side of the octagon to test a different technique. I will leave one side open as my way to get in and out easily. More updates as it gets built.


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## greenjoe (Apr 15, 2015)

fukin awesome...love it


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 15, 2015)

greenjoe said:


> fukin awesome...love it


Thanks man...I'm stoked. My wife is losing patience with me. My basement looks like I'm building alien space crafts.


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## greenjoe (Apr 15, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Thanks man...I'm stoked. My wife is losing patience with me. My basement looks like I'm building alien space crafts.


just like ...close encounters eh....


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 15, 2015)

*Another Octagon Update
*
I ran these same light tests with an HPS bulb and while I knew the numbers would be better, I did not realize just how much better.

@45" distance directly across the center of the bulb:
MH - 8500 Lux
HPS - 16,000 Lux

@20" distance directly across the center of the bulb:
MH: 25,000 Lux
HPS: 45,000 Lux

@20" distance and 8 inches up:
MH: 17,500 Lux
HPS: 35,000 Lux

@20" distance and 20 inches down:
MH: 17,500 Lux
HPS: 35,000 Lux

These figures shocked me. Even though the current octagon is too big it's not as much as I originally thought. So now I have a decision to make. Go through the hassle of building another one or just roll with the one that is already constructed.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 15, 2015)

*Quick Octagon Update*

I have decided to use this octagon and not build another one. I finished the 1st side and it's working great! For being level and not having a slope, even small amounts of water flow all the way through. No leaks. I'm liking this one enough I might do one more and have this idea represented on two sides. Pay no attention to the support straps covering sites. This easily slides to the left and to the right so I'll make it work. Water will come in via the top left and exit the bottom left. The other exposed pipe will be capped but not glued. The lower pipe where the water will return to the reservoir will get extended outside of the octagon.


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## Sativied (Apr 15, 2015)

That looks great, that elbow and T piece combination seems to work out quite nicely with the distance between the rows.

I was wondering though, to make it less wide, wouldn't it be easiest to merely extend the frame inwards? The reflective wall will still be at the original outer diameter but the tubes don't have to be. Either way, you can probably still learn a few other things from this one which you can then apply to improvements in the next build. Possibly bend a cheap reflector hood open to grow on only half or even more of the octagon, like a half pipe on its side.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 15, 2015)

Sativied said:


> That looks great, that elbow and T piece combination seems to work out quite nicely with the distance between the rows.
> 
> I was wondering though, to make it less wide, wouldn't it be easiest to merely extend the frame inwards? The reflective wall will still be at the original outer diameter but the tubes don't have to be. Either way, you can probably still learn a few other things from this one which you can then apply to improvements in the next build. Possibly bend a cheap reflector hood open to grow on only half or even more of the octagon, like a half pipe on its side.


Thanks! The distance between pipes turned out good. Using 2 90 degree elbows caused them to be further apart. I have the holes spaced 5 inches apart instead of 4.

Youre totally right about extending the framing to bring everything closer. And i may very well only use 4 sides which would certainly call for a reflector like you mentioned. For this run im mainly looking for more data and wont be too concerned with yield. Ultimately what i need is a reproducable strategy that is relatively easy and does not require lots of maintanence and man hours.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 16, 2015)

*Octagon Update
*
The 1st full PVC test is a success!

The aquarium pump is connected to a garden hose which I run up and route to the top. Currently using a 5 gallon bucket as the reservoir. The PVC maintains a negligible amount of water...maybe a 1/2 gallon if even that.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 16, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 76
Flowering Day 33*

Happy to see the girls growth rate accelerating. Some of them are starting to create good trich's. Over the last couple of weeks I've removed a few plants here and there if they were hopelessly too far beneath the canopy. I'm going to guess I've removed 12 and then we had 12 die from the carbon filter fiasco so a ball park figure is 144 girls in here.

I'm very happy with the top cola development and I expect them to end up about what I'm hoping.
Way too early to talk numbers but:

@10 Grams each
1440 Grams
3.17 Pounds
2.4 Grams per watt.

@7 Grams each
1008 Grams
2.22 Pounds
1.68 Grams per watt.


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## Uzzi (Apr 17, 2015)

Why do Americans use the measurement grams per watt and not an imperial measurement like you do for everything else?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 17, 2015)

Uzzi said:


> Why do Americans use the measurement grams per watt and not an imperial measurement like you do for everything else?


The history behind why is pretty interesting. This site has a brief summary:
http://www.quora.com/When-did-American-leaders-first-reject-the-Metric-System-and-why

Basically, we're idiots...that's why.


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## Uzzi (Apr 17, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> The history behind why is pretty interesting. This site has a brief summary:
> http://www.quora.com/When-did-American-leaders-first-reject-the-Metric-System-and-why
> 
> Basically, we're idiots...that's why.


Haha good read cheers! I hadn't noticed the other metric things like engine capacity that has snuck in!

Really interesting grow and build!


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## Sativied (Apr 17, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> The PVC maintains a negligible amount of water...maybe a 1/2 gallon if even that.


Hey, that's why Heath and I used an end cap with an offset drain hole, to function as a dam, which results in a deeper layer of water, hence the term flooded tubes. I'm sure NFT will work too but since you also don't have sprayers I'm not sure how well initially. Will you have a separate setup for seedlings?



Uzzi said:


> Why do Americans use the measurement grams per watt and not an imperial measurement like you do for everything else?


Supposedly, according to one source, that (gpw) is because of Jorge Cervantes traveling the world and visiting growers making comparisons.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 17, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Hey, that's why Heath and I used an end cap with an offset drain hole, to function as a dam, which results in a deeper layer of water, hence the term flooded tubes. I'm sure NFT will work too but since you also don't have sprayers I'm not sure how well initially. Will you have a separate setup for seedlings?
> 
> Supposedly, according to one source, that (gpw) is because of Jorge Cervantes traveling the world and visiting growers making comparisons.


You worked with Heath personally? If so, very cool man.

I looked at the dam approach and it was a lot of work especially for a 1st time for me so I opted against it. I'm considering increasing the size of my pump and see what happens. For seedlings, what I was thinking was start them in 1.5 inch rockwool inside the 2 inch baskets. Rig up a little temporary DWC tray to get some tap root into water.

We'll see...I'm working on my 2nd design right now. Waiting on parts online and then I'll showcase.


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## Sativied (Apr 17, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> You worked with Heath personally? If so, very cool man.


No, we just used the same pvc piece to create that dam. My tube setup was more inspired by @Earl 's spaceshuttle, but I decided to flood instead. Someone asked later at riu what I used to create that dam and turn out to be an item Heath used in the same way.



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Rig up a little temporary DWC tray to get some tap root into water


Yeah that's what I was thinking too. However, it's also why I decided to consider flooding initially. The plants don't have to adapt going from DWC to flooded tubes while they didn't like the shallow layer pre-flooding. NFT can work create but in a cylinder/tube (opposed to something flat) the layer is not only shallow but also narrow. Increasing the flow will raise it but only to an extend, it will also flow through faster. Perhaps worst case scenario is that you may have to top water for a few days.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 17, 2015)

Sativied said:


> No, we just used the same pvc piece to create that dam. My tube setup was more inspired by @Earl 's spaceshuttle, but I decided to flood instead. Someone asked later at riu what I used to create that dam and turn out to be an item Heath used in the same way.
> 
> Yeah that's what I was thinking too. However, it's also why I decided to consider flooding initially. The plants don't have to adapt going from DWC to flooded tubes while they didn't like the shallow layer pre-flooding. NFT can work create but in a cylinder/tube (opposed to something flat) the layer is not only shallow but also narrow. Increasing to flow will raise it but only to an extend, it will also flow through faster. Perhaps worst case scenario is that you may have to top water for a few days.


The water is only about 1/2" deep right now. I see your point. Stronger pump might not really raise the level much but will certainly increase the rate which is not good. Top watering is OK until they reach the water. Do you think 1/2" will cut it? Did you find that once roots started to build mass that they served as a dam themselves and increased the water depth and reduced the flow rate?


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## Sativied (Apr 17, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Did you find that once roots started to build mass that they served as a dam themselves and increased the water depth and reduced the flow rate?


It does raise the level, which in my case means it overflows a little faster and doesn't add to it in an amount that I account for it by leaving space below the bottom of the cup. Maybe I should though. My root mass seems about the same size as my flow, 1.5-2" at highest point, with and without sprayers.

Once it's that far it's less of an issue either way. I'd be more worried about the amount of space the roots have to overcome initially. I do think half an inch can be enough but hard to say in a tube.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 17, 2015)

Sativied said:


> It does raise the level, which in my case means it overflows a little faster and doesn't add to it in an amount that I account for it by leaving space below the bottom of the cup. Maybe I should though. My root mass seems about the same size as my flow, 1.5-2" at highest point, with and without sprayers.
> 
> Once it's that far it's less of an issue either way. I'd be more worried about the amount of space the roots have to overcome initially. I do think half an inch can be enough but hard to say in a tube.


Gotcha. I have nice plastic trays that will allow roots to pass from the rockwool cubes in the baskets so if I end up having to keep them in a little domed DWC setup until the tap root is several inches long I can do that. And if I also need to top water for a while I'm ok with that too. I'll be sure to log all of the data relating to this.

If you're up for it, I'd love to get your feedback on my 2nd design. Mind if I post a few pictures that will require your imagination and tell me what you think?


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## Sativied (Apr 17, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> If you're up for it, I'd love to get your feedback on my 2nd design. Mind if I post a few pictures that will require your imagination and tell me what you think?


I consider it a privilege to think along and provide feedback.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 17, 2015)

Kind of you to say. I'm grateful.

This is square PVC approximately 2.75" O.D.

Imagine a bunch of these hung vertically around the octagon. The tubes I bought came in 10 foot lengths so I cut them to approximately 40 inches in length. Vertically spaced at 6 inches, I can get 6 plants per tube. Horizontal spacing is TBD but I was figuring 4 or 5 inches apart...but that's really irrelevant at this point.

   

The 45 degree elbows would be permanently fastened. a 2 inch net pot fits nicely into this but so does a 1.5" rockwool cube all by itself.

I was originally thinking a few tubes with perlite. A few tubes with perlite/coco mix but then it occurred to me to try hydroton. I've never even seen hydroton before but I went ahead and ordered a gigantic bag of it. Stuff it pretty cool. THis approach I could do a drain to waste but with the hydroton (and maybe even the perlite if washed well enough...not sure) I'd like to try recirculating. This idea is appealing because each tube can be easily moved around. I'll showcase how I intend to hang them later next week.

Conceptually, what do you think?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 17, 2015)

I did not specify...I would be watering from the top of the tube and not at each plant site which is another appealing factor.


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## Sativied (Apr 17, 2015)

I think perlite could be tricky because it's so light and expands a lot. Maybe not a problem once it becomes a single root+medium mass, but normally in a wider bucket the medium can both raise and settle easily.

I use hydroton in my netcups but also at the bottom of hempy bottles/buckets so they don't clog the drain hole and there's some more space for the res part at the bottom, drains/flushes easily. Main down side I see is that although it's possible to reuse hydroton, it does take more work to clean the setup for next round and more work to remove it from the root mass. One of the main things I like about my hydro setup is that I can harvest the plants and have the system cleaned and ready for next run within an hour. 

I think the vertical post with 45degrees elbow combination could work very nicely. Recirculation with a medium, even hydroton, can be tricky, but also provide a buffer in case of a technical failure. A sprayer above each plant site (and no medium) could work too.

That would obviously add more work and probably maintenance, but check out the video below. I was looking for another video but this is even better, scroll to roughly 8:40 and watch a minute or so for this rather clever but simple solution that may still apply when filling the tower with hydroton.





Actually, google or search youtube for hydroponic tower for more inspiration.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 17, 2015)

Sativied said:


> I think perlite could be tricky because it's so light and expands a lot. Maybe not a problem once it becomes a single root+medium mass, but normally in a wider bucket the medium can both raise and settle easily.
> 
> I use hydroton in my netcups but also at the bottom of hempy bottles/buckets so they don't clog the drain hole and there's some more space for the res part at the bottom, drains/flushes easily. Main down side I see is that although it's possible to reuse hydroton, it does take more work to clean the setup for next round and more work to remove it from the root mass. One of the main things I like about my hydro setup is that I can harvest the plants and have the system cleaned and ready for next run within an hour.
> 
> ...


No medium at all would be awesome.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 17, 2015)

1st tube is done. After turning the clutch way down on my drill I was able to drill these holes a lot easier and cleaner. Not having a lot of surface area I was not sure how well the elbows would solvent weld but they seem quite durable. I think I'm going to do my 1st test with hydroton. I will do top watering on an automated schedule. Will rely on your input and trial and error but I'm probably going to start with something like 15 seconds on, 30 minutes off. Remember my 1st prototype in automation? Well, that's going to come into play. Since I can now turn electrical devices on and off with code, doing odd watering intervals becomes trivially easy.

These tubes are going to be really fast to make. I drilled the holes and cemented the elbows in about 3 minutes.
I've been struggling trying to find end caps but I finally found something that should work. I don't want the end caps to be cemented thinking it will be much easier to clean between runs with both ends exposed. The idea of not having medium to dispose of is very appealing. I still have coco and perlite remnants in the woods from last time.

Put the net pots in just for the picture but it's doubtful I'll use them. 1.5" rockwool cubes slide in wonderfully.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 17, 2015)

Popped the 1st small batch of seeds for what will become Chapter #3. I've decided I'm not going to shell out any money for seeds and I'm going to use what I've got. Between different strains I've bought but never used and all of the 1 off freebies I've got over 50 Fem seeds plus some other interesting regular seeds such as some bodhi stuff.

First up:
(9) AK48
(9) Pineapple Express

All 18 are fem seeds.
Put them in water 24 hours ago and getting some action already. Rockwool bound in the morning.


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## Sativied (Apr 17, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Put the net pots in just for the picture but it's doubtful I'll use them. 1.5" rockwool cubes slide in wonderfully.


Looks like the cubes is the way to go so you can slide them in far enough, and then you also get some support for leaning.

Sure like the look. Honestly I think that if my goal wasn't plant portability but max yield instead I'd join in one some vertical hydro tower fun. Columns do seem more manageable than rows.



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> The idea of not having medium to dispose of is very appealing.


Seems like a feasible goal. Some ways of providing the water will be better than others but I'm having a hard time trying to think of reasons why it wouldn't work (like in that youtube vid). You could perhaps use a cheap shower head (dollar store?) in the top to spread it evenly. Instead of a sprayer per plant site you'd have a larger on in the top. Either way, I think it has great potential.



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> 15 seconds on, 30 minutes off.


I think that off period is a bit long initially. It'll be humid in the column but I'd start with something like 10 minute off till there are some more roots. I only say that because I let some seedings dry out while refreshing a dwc box, I have no experience running on timers. The thought to use an arduino for a timer has crossed my mind to too, those second-based timers with irregular intervals tend to be pricey.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 17, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Looks like the cubes is the way to go so you can slide them in far enough, and then you also get some support for leaning.
> 
> Sure like the look. Honestly I think that if my goal wasn't plant portability but max yield instead I'd join in one some vertical hydro tower fun. Columns do seem more manageable than rows.
> 
> ...


The columns are exciting me more than the "Heath" at the moment. The fact I'll be able to take one down and fiddle with it. Change it's position...change it's height is very appealing.

_You could perhaps use a cheap shower head (dollar store?) in the top to spread it evenly. Instead of a sprayer per plant site you'd have a larger on in the top._
I have a ton of drip equipment. 1/4", 1/2"...all the fixens. I was kind of thinking that a 1/2" tube over each PVC pipe might be fine. The flow might be a little agressive but the hydroton should offer a lot of flow resistance so the roots are not bombarded. That said, do you still suggest some kind of shower/sprayer instead of just a stream of water?

_It'll be humid in the column but I'd start with something like 10 minute off till there are some more roots._
Cool, OK. I was hoping for some specific advice on that.


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## Sativied (Apr 17, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> The fact I'll be able to take one down and fiddle with it. Change it's position...change it's height is very appealing.


Yes and possibly grow plants of different age on different sides of the octagon, which would be harder when they are all in the same row and root mass. 



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> That said, do you still suggest some kind of shower/sprayer instead of just a stream of water?


If you fill it with hydroton I don't think it needs help spreading and then a longer off period would probably be fine too, although then I would maybe turn it on 1 minute instead of 10seconds to somewhat flush it through. Or check carefully how much that takes to reach the bottom properly (instead of being soaked up by hydroton half way). I don't think bombarding the roots with water or the flow being too aggressive will be a problem, they can take quite a lot especially if they grow up in it.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 17, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Yes and possibly grow plants of different age on different sides of the octagon, which would be harder when they are all in the same row and root mass.
> 
> If you fill it with hydroton I don't think it needs help spreading and then a longer off period would probably be fine too, although then I would maybe turn it on 1 minute instead of 10seconds to somewhat flush it through. Or check carefully how much that takes to reach the bottom properly (instead of being soaked up by hydroton half way). I don't think bombarding the roots with water or the flow being too aggressive will be a problem, they can take quite a lot especially if they grow up in it.


For sure. Maybe a 12/13/14 day rotation for perpetual would be doable. Hot dog, I'm getting excited now! Thanks Sat!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 17, 2015)

I was able to talk to a project manager at a local steel fabrication company and inquired about having them make me a circle out of 1 inch thick solid aluminum that was 60 inches in diameter. Long story short something like this will cost about $300. If this design ends up being viable, I've gotta come up with 2 proto's. One that is self-contained with odor control and one that is not - The room it would go in would be controlled.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 18, 2015)

*Octagon Update
*
I have 5 vegetables in the PVC tubes right now. Each of them has a smallish tap root that reached the water and the rest of the roots are confined in the net pot. They've been in here for 48 hours now and that one tap root is doing a great job keeping the main root mass moist. This is promising.
 




This was an idea I started a few days ago but have since abandoned. Each one of these pots is one of the 3" x 10" pots I used in the 1st experiment and they are anchored to the studs. Draining would occur outside of the octagon. This was appealing because each of these 3" pots would serve as the holder. Other 3" pots with the plants would simply slide into these. This would offer maximum portability but would be a lot of work to water them. It's unlikely I will continue with this one.
 



And now the ones I'm really excited about. The square PVC.
 

The 18 seeds that I'm germinating will be going into these. The lower 2x4 you see with the 3/4" PVC is to stabilize the tubes and help prevent them from twisting. It does a good job but I suspect I will need to come up with something a little better.


----------



## Sativied (Apr 18, 2015)

The multiple towers look great, seems the hydroton fills up the elbows nicely too.



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> It does a good job but I suspect I will need to come up with something a little better.


That small pvc clamp is available in thicker versions as well, perhaps one of those on each side of each tower is enough... or a small strip of velcro tape, or magnetic adhesive tape.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 18, 2015)

Sativied said:


> The multiple towers look great, seems the hydroton fills up the elbows nicely too.
> 
> That small pvc clamp is available in thicker versions as well, perhaps one of those on each side of each tower is enough... or a small strip of velcro tape, or magnetic adhesive tape.


Ahh, great idea. Velcro sounds like the ticket


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 18, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 78
Flowering Day 35*

Girls are trucking right along. They are kind of on auto-pilot at this point. I poke my head in and take a peek but otherwise I'm just kind of letting them do their thing.
RH was really high today...high 60's. It has been slowly rising so I figured it was time to bring in the 2nd dumidifier. It's working like a champ. This one is in the grow room and RH dropped from high 60's down to low 40's so I'm pleased. Temps are no longer a concern as it has warmed considerably outside. I think these girls are going to end up doing just fine. Might not be harvesting til day 75 or day 80 of flowering but whatever. The only other thing worth noting is that I measured run-off with todays watering and it was HIGH. Like 2.1 EC. Been watering at 1.3/1.4 so I guess I'll flush tomorrow or the next day with maybe 20% strength of what I've been feeding. Typical watering for them has been 12 gallons of water with 4 gallons of run-off every 3 days with feed every watering.

Other than Sat, no one seems to be interested in Octagon stuff so I'll try and get some good bud porn coming


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 18, 2015)

8 out of the 9 AK48 seeds germinated and are now in rockwool.
Not a single one of the pineapple express' have popped. I put them into rockwool anyway as well.

Just put 8 Bodhi Blue Tara's into water as well as 6 C99-BX1's from Mosca. These are regular not feminized.


----------



## bf80255 (Apr 18, 2015)

can you spot the ones that are just genetically taller?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 18, 2015)

bf80255 said:


> can you spot the ones that are just genetically taller?


Wacha mean genetically taller? I think the close proximity plays too much of a role to try and conclude that a single plant is either taller or shorter but who knows...maybe I'm wrong.

Both strains are taller, on average, than they were in my 1st experiment.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 18, 2015)

Tonight I finished up the software that will automate all watering for me. Here is an example configuration it will use...nothing is hard coded.

{
"PortName": "COM5",
"Circuits": [
{
"Number": 1,
"MillisecondsOn": 10000,
"MillisecondsOff": 600000
},
{
"Number": 2,
"MillisecondsOn": 10000,
"MillisecondsOff": 600000
}
]
}

Remember my very 1st prototype to turn circuits on and off?


The software will turn these outlets on and off at very precise intervals and each water pump I need will connect to one of them.
I just ordered a cheapo tablet that should work just fine for running the software.


----------



## bryleetch (Apr 18, 2015)

I'm interested in the octagon stuff too, I'm just following along silently! Its gotten me thinking about doing something similar on a micro scale in like the size of a garbage can, if only I had time right now to put anything into effect. Very cool stuff you're doing, this is my favorite journal to follow on here... always something new going on and something new to learn. good stuff


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 19, 2015)

*Quick Octagon Update
*
Got the carbon filter and exhaust hooked up. Since I'm not going to max out the space I put the filter on the wall instead of the ceiling.
Fan is 720 CFM and filter is a big boy: Phresh Filter 701018 950 Cubic Feet Per Minute Carbon Air Filter, 8 by 39-Inch.

Waiting on parts so for the next few days I'll focus on removing the design with the 3" pots that I won't be using. Doing some light sealing and then work on the door.


----------



## bf80255 (Apr 19, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Wacha mean genetically taller? I think the close proximity plays too much of a role to try and conclude that a single plant is either taller or shorter but who knows...maybe I'm wrong.
> 
> Both strains are taller, on average, than they were in my 1st experiment.


which ones have more nodes and are tallest? those are the most vegetatively vigorous the ones that are tall and stretchy will not pass on their height generally speaking because it is a product of the environment rather than genetics (pheno v geno)


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 21, 2015)

*Octagon Update
*
All 18 seeds germinated. 9 AK48 and 9 Pineapple Express.
I filled two vertical tubes...1 with 6 AK's and 1 with 6 PE's. The remaining 3 and 3 I put into the top row of the horizontal pipe.

I also inspected some of the veggies that have been in the pipe for several days and one of them is sprouting new roots like crazy...very promising.

   

 

Today and tomorrow I'll be working on hooking up pumps and tubes and all that good stuff. Never done it before so should be interesting.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 21, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 81
Flowering Day 38*

Did a very large flush today ~ 18 gallons. I used 1/4 of my normal feeding. Recently read that I should not flush with plain water as it could disturb the balance. It's a little hard to stay positive about Chapter 2. I can't sugar coat it...they are behind and this is setting up for the possibility of big disappointment. And then I'm focusing all of my mental energy on Chapter 3. At least that is giving me a great deal of satisfaction. Oh well...fingers crossed.

I spent about an hour pruning the under side and removed a ton of fluff. Also found and removed another dozen or so runts that had no chance. I'm pretty sure I've gotten all of those removed now. I'm going to guesstimate about 130 plants remaining from the 168 that I started with.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 21, 2015)

Brief Octagon Update

I'm doing 4 vertical tubes and then the 4 flood tubes and I'm going to wait until Chapter 2 ends before I decide how to proceed. Figure I've got 5 or 6 weeks until they finish and I can get my tent taken down and prep the room for whichever of these 2 methods I go with.

(9) AK 48
(9) Pineapple Express
(7 maybe  Blue Tara
(5) C99-BX1

  
The flood tubes will have the garden plants indefinitely. The top row has (3) AK48 and (3) Pineapple Express.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 22, 2015)

Minor Octagon Update

I found connecting 1/2" tubing to 1/2" connectors pretty difficult. Of course I also just learned not to mix and match brands as the dimensions are inconsistent which is exactly what I did. Oh well, live and learn. I ordered a bunch of compression fittings too to see how those do.

At any rate, I have a functioning drip system. It's a little more powerful than a drip but whatever. No leaks so far. Everything looks pretty ghetto right now but I'm prototyping!
I got a cheapo $79 tablet that is going to be the brains. Finished the software and I took a screen shot of the auto-watering. It's configuration driven so I can change timings, add and remove pumps, etc. without touching code.

This tablet will become a permanent fixture to the octagon.

    

I intend to try recirculating water with the vertical tubes but before I go down that road, I think I'll flush several hundred gallons of water thru the hydroton to get it as clean as I can.


----------



## akhiymjames (Apr 22, 2015)

Fucking sick bro. Love the plants and the Octagon. That automated water system through the tablet is boss fareal. I've heard of it but actually seeing it cool shit. You gonna kill this once you get it completely going. Look forward to seeing this happen


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 22, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Fucking sick bro. Love the plants and the Octagon. That automated water system through the tablet is boss fareal. I've heard of it but actually seeing it cool shit. You gonna kill this once you get it completely going. Look forward to seeing this happen


Thanks homey!

Chapter 3 will in fact use a new octagon and I got some really cool shit i'm working on.


----------



## Uzzi (Apr 22, 2015)

Are you concerned about the horizontal drainage rail at the bottom of your vertical tubes being exposed to your light?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 22, 2015)

Uzzi said:


> Are you concerned about the horizontal drainage rail at the bottom of your vertical tubes being exposed to your light?


Should I be? This is my 1st hydro. My Chapter 3 design will do a better job as I won't use this approach but in the mean time, is this something I should address right away?


----------



## Uzzi (Apr 22, 2015)

My assumption would be that you'll end up growing slime on the rail which will then contaminate your res. If it were me I'd use circular pipe you have in your horizontal setup and just cut a snug hole for each vertical pipe, so no light gets in. I'm a growing grom too though...


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 22, 2015)

Uzzi said:


> Are you concerned about the horizontal drainage rail at the bottom of your vertical tubes being exposed to your light?


If this is a serious no-no then please tell me and I'll rig something up.

Looking forward though, this is the probable solution to this problem.

Imagine black 4" drainage pipe wrapped around underneath these square pipes. Every 5 inches I'll have a hole drilled and then this would become the bottom of the tubes:


This is just a dry fitted example but I can keep the return water pretty much in the dark.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 22, 2015)

Uzzi said:


> My assumption would be that you'll end up growing slime on the rail which will then contaminate your res. If it were me I'd use circular pipe you have in your horizontal setup and just cut a snug hole for each vertical pipe, so no light gets in. I'm a growing grom too though...


OK...I think what I'm planning is prolly gunna be ok then.


----------



## Uzzi (Apr 22, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> OK...I think what I'm planning is prolly gunna be ok then.


Haha yep sorry, I didn't realise you were just sort of mocking it up


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 22, 2015)

Uzzi said:


> Haha yep sorry, I didn't realise you were just sort of mocking it up


Well...the 1st picture that you commented on is running so thank you! I'll get right on trying to stop the light from coming in. I'm at least a month out from the *real* octagon with the bottom drain pipe.


----------



## Mohican (Apr 22, 2015)

Did you check the pipes for light blocking? You may want to spray them black or wrap with foil tape.

I had clear tubing on my first res:






Got the same advice about light growing slime so I changed to copper:



Malawi Gold




Cheers,
Mo


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 22, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Did you check the pipes for light blocking? You may want to spray them black or wrap with foil tape.
> 
> I had clear tubing on my first res:
> 
> ...


Big difference! OK, no light at all!


----------



## Mohican (Apr 23, 2015)

I still ruined that grow. I let my rez get too warm and slimed my roots. The clones I took from her and planted outside made up for the loss:






Cheers,
Mo


----------



## catfishclyde (Apr 23, 2015)

Mohican said:


> I still ruined that grow. I let my rez get too warm and slimed my roots. The clones I took from her and planted outside made up for the loss:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Holy shit. Is that one plant?


----------



## akhiymjames (Apr 23, 2015)

You can def see that's one big ass monster from Mo right there. Damn I would love to be able to grow one like that. In due time hopefully


----------



## sky rocket (Apr 23, 2015)

In chapter 3 will still go 12/12 from seed or will you veg a little?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 24, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> In chapter 3 will still go 12/12 from seed or will you veg a little?


12/12 again


----------



## Mohican (Apr 25, 2015)

One plant - her roots after harvest:





You can see the whole grow from 2012 *HERE*.


Cheers,
Mo


----------



## SweetestCheeba (Apr 25, 2015)

Hey diggity man I had a quick question. My girl is at about week 11 from seed but her calyx's seem underdeveloped.
What do you guys think.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 25, 2015)

SweetestCheeba said:


> Hey diggity man I had a quick question. My girl is at about week 11 from seed but her calyx's seem underdeveloped.
> What do you guys think.


Yeah...looks like it's only in like week 3 of flowering. Is this week 11 on 12/12 from seed?


----------



## SweetestCheeba (Apr 25, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Yeah...looks like it's only in like week 3 of flowering. Is this week 11 on 12/12 from seed?


Yup.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 25, 2015)

SweetestCheeba said:


> Yup.


It could be any number of things. 250 Watts of HPS...have you grown with this light before and have you gotten good results?
What about the strain? If it is sativa dominant it could just be a really slow and longer flowering plant.


----------



## SweetestCheeba (Apr 25, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> It could be any number of things. 250 Watts of HPS...have you grown with this light before and have you gotten good results?
> What about the strain? If it is sativa dominant it could just be a really slow and longer flowering plant.


This is my first run with the 250w I have about 3 grows under a 150w hps with decent results and multiple small plants.
The strain is a bagseed from some type of cookies.{first run}


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 25, 2015)

SweetestCheeba said:


> This is my first run with the 250w I have about 3 grows under a 150w hps with decent results and multiple small plants.
> The strain is a bagseed from some type of cookies.{first run}


Well...all I can really say is to keep giving it love. It does not look unhealthy. At 77 days lets estimate its on day 40 of flowering. Check back in 2 weeks and lets see how shes looking.


----------



## SweetestCheeba (Apr 25, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Well...all I can really say is to keep giving it love. It does not look unhealthy. At 77 days lets estimate its on day 40 of flowering. Check back in 2 weeks and lets see how shes looking.


Will do. Thanks


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 27, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 87
Flowering Day 44*

No commentary...just pictures.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 27, 2015)

I lied...I do have a little bit of commentary. Just in the last few days they seem to be getting their act together and speeding up. I've had the MH bulb in for the last 5 days and just put the HPS back in. All of the fan leaf removals that I did could very well be the cause of the slow growth...or at least a contributing factor. It's been a good 10 days or so since I stopped removing fans.

It's really hard to appreciate just how many plants are in here. The pictures just can't capture it. All of the plants that are beneath the canopy are actually doing quite well. They are not completely shielded, you just can't see them in the pictures. Most of the ones that are really struggling are the ones on the extreme perimeter. Some of those also happen to be beneath the canopy and those are by far the worst ones.


----------



## Mohican (Apr 27, 2015)

It is going to be a solid rectangle of bud!


----------



## Po boy (Apr 27, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Well...all I can really say is to keep giving it love. .


you're a growing machine! just been following along but had to say what an awesome job you're doing!!!!!


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 27, 2015)

Po boy said:


> you're a growing machine! just been following along but had to say what an awesome job you're doing!!!!!


Thanks brother...keeping my fingers crossed for Chapter 2. It's not been going all that great.


----------



## akhiymjames (Apr 27, 2015)

I def would have to agree that all the defoil to keep things good most likely have slowed them down but man it still looks great bro. I would love to see this in person. Still amazed at this jungle!!! Keep it up bro


----------



## SweetestCheeba (Apr 28, 2015)

F'ing awesome man. This grow still trips me out.
Has drainage been giving you any problems (jus curious).


----------



## Uzzi (Apr 28, 2015)

Hey HDS. Just curious if you have been able to keep track of which seedling is which strain? Cool grow bud!


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 29, 2015)

SweetestCheeba said:


> F'ing awesome man. This grow still trips me out.
> Has drainage been giving you any problems (jus curious).


Drainage has been pretty simple although it is nothing like how I designed it. In this picture you can see two water spigots I installed.
 

I had intended on running these tubs hempy style...where 2 inches of water would be allowed to stay on the bottom and the runoff would come thru the spigot. I put a mesh screen on the spigot to prevent coco and perlite from running out but it turned out to be to restrictive and simply did not drain well.

What I ended up doing was punching 3 small holes in each tub for draining and placed shoebox sized plastic tubs under them so there are 6 of these underneath. Only on heavy waterings - more than 13 or 14 gallons do I have to empty the plastic tubs twice...normal waterings I only have to empty them once.

So long answer short, draining is actually pretty simple and has not been much of a hassle.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 29, 2015)

Uzzi said:


> Hey HDS. Just curious if you have been able to keep track of which seedling is which strain? Cool grow bud!


Chronic Thunder is in the left tub and Skunk #1 is in the right tub.
The only exception is that I did not have enought Chronic Thunder seeds to fill the left tub so there are 7 Skunk #1's in the left tub. They are positioned in the back.


----------



## SweetestCheeba (Apr 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Drainage has been pretty simple although it is nothing like how I designed it. In this picture you can see two water spigots I installed.
> View attachment 3407184
> 
> I had intended on running these tubs hempy style...where 2 inches of water would be allowed to stay on the bottom and the runoff would come thru the spigot. I put a mesh screen on the spigot to prevent coco and perlite from running out but it turned out to be to restrictive and simply did not drain well.
> ...


Sounds like the simple way worked best.
Quick question: are you familiar with seein this trait in later flowering(round single leaves)
My temps are 77 and my RH is around 40-45%


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 29, 2015)

SweetestCheeba said:


> Sounds like the simple way worked best.
> Quick question: are you familiar with seein this trait in later flowering(round single leaves)
> My temps are 77 and my RH is around 40-45%


I've seen pictures of this but I have not experienced that myself. It's probably just the strain but maybe someone else will comment. I've had strains that create really funky leaves. This is an example from Chapter 1....it is Barneys Farm Top Dawg. In fact, many of the Barneys Farm strains I tried had really thick funky single leaves. It's not exactly like what you are experiencing but similar. Your temps and RH is perfect so it's certainly nothing to do with that.


----------



## akhiymjames (Apr 29, 2015)

SweetestCheeba said:


> Sounds like the simple way worked best.
> Quick question: are you familiar with seein this trait in later flowering(round single leaves)
> My temps are 77 and my RH is around 40-45%


Bro it looks like that lady is trying to reveg from the looks of it. I've taken some clones in flower and have to reveg them it's called monster cropping and that's how the leaves look coming out the buds once they start growing again. Did you have a light problem? Don't know if I've heard of any strains starting to reveg themselves but with cannabis you never know


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 29, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Bro it looks like that lady is trying to reveg from the looks of it. I've taken some clones in flower and have to reveg them it's called monster cropping and that's how the leaves look coming out the buds once they start growing again. Did you have a light problem? Don't know if I've heard of any strains starting to reveg themselves but with cannabis you never know


You're right man...it does look like that.


----------



## SweetestCheeba (Apr 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I've seen pictures of this but I have not experienced that myself. It's probably just the strain but maybe someone else will comment. I've had strains that create really funky leaves. This is an example from Chapter 1....it is Barneys Farm Top Dawg. In fact, many of the Barneys Farm strains I tried had really thick funky single leaves. It's not exactly like what you are experiencing but similar. Your temps and RH is perfect so it's certainly nothing to do with that.
> 
> View attachment 3407267 View attachment 3407268 View attachment 3407269


Yea man looks a lot like those leaves, non serrated but still produce trichs.
You don't think it could be any type of lock out do u?



akhiymjames said:


> Bro it looks like that lady is trying to reveg from the looks of it. I've taken some clones in flower and have to reveg them it's called monster cropping and that's how the leaves look coming out the buds once they start growing again. Did you have a light problem? Don't know if I've heard of any strains starting to reveg themselves but with cannabis you never know


I did maybe about 3 weeks ago I had to move her to a new home and she missed about 2 days of light.
If she was to reveg would those non serrated leaves still be producing trichs?
This also jus started about 2 days ago she has been fine since then jus a lil stunted growth.


----------



## akhiymjames (Apr 29, 2015)

SweetestCheeba said:


> Yea man looks a lot like those leaves, non serrated but still produce trichs.
> You don't think it could be any type of lock out do u?
> 
> 
> ...


Kinda surprising that you had that problem about a few weeks ago and it's just now showing the growth. Yea leaves have trichs on them in veg but not big like when they're in flower. Did you notice any stretching after that or any bud growth cus if she got stunted then she might have now just got back on track. But those leaves will still produce trichs since she was already in flower anyways. Just keep watching her to make sure none keep coming out like this


----------



## SweetestCheeba (Apr 29, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Kinda surprising that you had that problem about a few weeks ago and it's just now showing the growth. Yea leaves have trichs on them in veg but not big like when they're in flower. Did you notice any stretching after that or any bud growth cus if she got stunted then she might have now just got back on track. But those leaves will still produce trichs since she was already in flower anyways. Just keep watching her to make sure none keep coming out like this


Since the move I have notice good bud growth and not much stretch at all.
Good trich production. But those leaves jus scared me wen I saw them 2 days ago.
Im takin pics everyday now to monitor that growth.
Im gonna go take some a little later after the lights have been on for a couple hours


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 29, 2015)

Minor Octagon Update

Both prototypes are working wonderfully. The roots from the seedlings in the circular PVC have not reached the water yet and I'm closely monitoring. Either they will or they won't. If they don't, then these would have to get started out in DWC trays and then transferred.

I am in full blown development of the 2nd octagon. This octagon will be dedicated to the vertical square PVC tubes. I won't be doing any sneak peaks until it's finished. It will be very pimp and very polished.

Some pics from the current prototypes. Looking great for 8 day old seedlings.
The 4 vertical tubes will ultimately be relocated into the new octagon once finished.


----------



## SweetestCheeba (Apr 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Minor Octagon Update
> 
> Both prototypes are working wonderfully. The roots from the seedlings in the circular PVC have not reached the water yet and I'm closely monitoring. Either they will or they won't. If they don't, then these would have to get started out in DWC trays and then transferred.
> 
> ...


Lookin bad ass diggity. How many lights are you going to have in the middle of each octagon?

But guys my girl has din a bit of stretching with this new growth.
Tons of hairs, pretty descent trich production and bud growth, I can barely see the stems, but this foxtailing its worrying me.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 29, 2015)

SweetestCheeba said:


> Lookin bad ass diggity. How many lights are you going to have in the middle of each octagon?
> 
> But guys my girl has din a bit of stretching with this new growth.
> Tons of hairs, pretty descent trich production and bud growth, I can barely see the stems, but this foxtailing its worrying me.


Those are looking awesome. I've sized the new octagon for a single 600 Watt light.


----------



## SweetestCheeba (Apr 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Those are looking awesome. I've sized the new octagon for a single 600 Watt light.


Thanks diggity, I feel a little bit better pullin her out and takin those side pics to see the bud formation.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 1, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 91
Flowering Day 48*

Watering every 4 days now instead of 3. They seem to like that extra day to dry out a little bit. Run-off has been consistently 200 PPM higher than what I'm feeding so I've been tapering back my feed to about 0.9 EC and getting run-off of 1.2 EC. A few plants here and there have very minor signs of being fed too much so this feels about right for now. All in all they are showing considerable progress. Today was the first day I "dove in" so to say and started moving things so I could get a look at plants I have not been able to see. Some of them are looking fantastic...about where they should be for day 48 but the vast majority still looks to be around 15 days behind where they should be...the ones on the perimeter and beneath the canopy much more than that.
*
Thunder Tub: *~55 out of 84 alive
*Skunk Tub: *~65 out of 84 alive
_More accurate counts on the next update

       _


----------



## DirtyNerd (May 1, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 2 Update
> Day 91
> Flowering Day 48*
> 
> ...


Very nice bro looking like bamboo forest just need some samurai in there fighting to the death alright I might be stoned right now and watching shogun assassin 


What's the recommend flower time of the girls again hard to find with so many pages Aswell ways great job


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 1, 2015)

Well...seems 57 to 63 days was about right last time. There will probably be some that finish around then but I've kind of expecting like day 70 at the earliest for most of them. We'll see!

Edit: Barneys Chronic Thunder is said to be 57 to 62 days and that is right inline with what happened in chapter 1.
Sensi seeds say 7 to 11 weeks for Skunk #1.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 1, 2015)

Then there's always the risk of them finishing in 60 days and having 4 foot tall plants that yield 4 grams...Charlie Brown specials. Hope that won't be the case.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 5, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 95
Flowering Day 52*

Today I watered with 14 gallons instead of 12 and cut my normal feed in half. PPM's going in was 460. Run-off on the Chronic Thunder tub was 820 and run-off on the Skunk #1 tub was 960 so I hope today will be a good flush for them. Might have to repeat this 4 days from now...I'll just monitor and use my best judgement.

There is a lot of variance in development. Based on how they look, I am going to estimate the harvest window to be between day 70 and 85.
Some could be a little earlier...it's really difficult to try and see plants in the middle and back. Harvesting this is going to be challenging.


----------



## akhiymjames (May 5, 2015)

Man all I can say is amazing work bro. I know it's been rough for you but things are looking really good and healthy. Those buds are starting to swell now too and are very frosty so I think your doing just fine. I'm sure harvesting will be a challenge but should be a lil fun too lol. I think is been pretty successful so far going to be interesting to see the yield from this. Keep it up bro


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 5, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Man all I can say is amazing work bro. I know it's been rough for you but things are looking really good and healthy. Those buds are starting to swell now too and are very frosty so I think your doing just fine. I'm sure harvesting will be a challenge but should be a lil fun too lol. I think is been pretty successful so far going to be interesting to see the yield from this. Keep it up bro


Thanks man. Winter took so long to break but now that it has, Temps and RH will be perfect the rest of the way, so I'm hopeful. Most of the more advanced ones don't look to be very dense. They probably look more dense in the pictures than they really are. Because of that, I have decided to continue running the HPS and not mess around with the MH bulb...at least for a while longer.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 7, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 97
Flowering Day 54*

I did blind shots with my camera by leaning into the tent to try and get some shots...they did not turn out great but I'm going to post them anyway. Getting some good frost starting to form.


----------



## bf80255 (May 9, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 2 Update
> Day 97
> Flowering Day 54*
> 
> ...


wow the trichome coverage on that one is stunning! Id love to have a plant like that


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 9, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 99
Flowering Day 56*

This morning I put the Metal Halide in primarily so I get get a really good look at them. Don't see any signs of toxicity or deficiency so that's good. I am surprised to see that a lot of hairs of turning orange...I'm most concerned about this on the under developed plants.

Took some close-up pictures. Will put the HPS back in before lights on tomorrow. Most of the Skunk #1's are doing great. Most of the Chronic Thunders are not. There are a few CT gems but most suck. I'm thinking in Chapter 1 I must have gotten 2 good ones by blind luck.

I did another feed at 1/2 my normal strength. PPM going in was 475 and run-off was between 800 and 850 for each tub. Still pretty high...not sure what to make of that.


----------



## akhiymjames (May 9, 2015)

Looking amazing bro. Those blind shots came out pretty good to me. Looks like you got a few ambers too but nowhere near enough to chop. I think your ppms on runoff is high because you have so much medium you can never really truly flush it. It would take at least double the size of those tubs. Your medium is holding a lot of the nutes still even though you flush. I would keep doing what your doing by feeding half strength. Won't be long till you have some great buds. Sorry to hear those Chronic Thunders aren't looking so good in terms of production but hopefully they smoke will be ok. Sometimes some can really surprise you on looks.


----------



## DirtyNerd (May 9, 2015)

Looking awesome bro i 2nd the size of your medium is large so its going to take a lot to flush her down if you don't want to waste so much nutrients flush with 50% like you have been and reuse the run off but water it down more so if its coming out at 800 flush add more water to bring that ppm down and flush again till its the level you want

or just make a huge mix up and keep flushing till it drops as your going a hempy style grow you might find the base below the taps is holding on to some of the nutrients that's why the reading is high and can't be flushed 100% i could be wrong as i have never done hempy before but i think the girls are looking awesome and you don't have to much longer if you want just drop it your feeding down to 25% as it seems like you have a lot of nutrients in your medium

looking forward to the next project keep up the great job bro


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 10, 2015)

@akhiymjames
@DirtyNerd

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm going to do what you suggest and just keep feeding with 50% of what I would otherwise be feeding. I'll keep tabs on run-off and only bump the nutes back up if the run-off comes way down closer to what's going in. Each tote is 54 gallons I believe and I have no interest in trying to run 100's of gallons of plain water thru them.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 11, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 101
Flowering Day 58*
*
Left Tub - Chronic Thunder ~ 53 Plants
Right Tub - Skunk #1 ~ 57 Plants*

*
       *


----------



## skunkwreck (May 11, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 2 Update
> Day 101
> Flowering Day 58
> Left Tub - Chronic Thunder ~ 53 Plants
> ...


That's an awesome grow man..digging that Skunk #1 sog...what's the smell like atm ?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 11, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> That's an awesome grow man..digging that Skunk #1 sog...what's the smell like atm ?


The Chronic Thunders dont actually smell too much but the skunk #1's smell amazing. Very sweet and fruity...almost like juicy fruit. I'm eager to close the books on this one as I'm ready to move on with different approaches.


----------



## skunkwreck (May 11, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> The Chronic Thunders dont actually smell too much but the skunk #1's smell amazing. Very sweet and fruity...almost like juicy fruit. I'm eager to close the books on this one as I'm ready to move on with different approaches.


Well you have done yourself proud on this grow man....AWESOME !!
Can't wait to see your next adventure


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 11, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> Well you have done yourself proud on this grow man....AWESOME !!
> Can't wait to see your next adventure


Thanks brother. I'll post what I'm up to sometime today. Been trying a couple different things and I think I've decided on which route I want to go. It's now all about trying to simplify. The amount of work to create these things is just too much.


----------



## bf80255 (May 11, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> The Chronic Thunders dont actually smell too much but the skunk #1's smell amazing. Very sweet and fruity...almost like juicy fruit. I'm eager to close the books on this one as I'm ready to move on with different approaches.


how much longer you figure youll take them?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 11, 2015)

bf80255 said:


> how much longer you figure youll take them?


I' guessing I have around 10 to 14 days before the 1st ones start coming down. Many of them will be longer than that. I don't see any signs of fan leaves starting to turn fall colors yet.

Who knows though. I look at them several times each day so we'll just have to wait and see I guess.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 13, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 103
Flowering Day 60*
*
Left Tub - Chronic Thunder ~ 53 Plants
Right Tub - Skunk #1 ~ 57 Plants*

Watered with a slight increase in nutes. 505 PPM (0.72 EC) going in and both tubs run-off was 736 PPM (1.05 EC).
Since we hit the big six o, I don't see much need in trying to ramp nute levels up any more. I'll start taking them down gradually.

This may be the final update while the HPS is being used. Plan on putting the MH in either Fri, Sat or Sun and let them finish with that. Hoping to get some extra sugar from it. A nice side benefit is the pictures are much better 

Some of these might be damned near ready to cut...i'm just not sure. I can't even see 70% of them...lol


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 15, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 105
Flowering Day 62*
*
Left Tub - Chronic Thunder ~ 53 Plants
Right Tub - Skunk #1 ~ 56 Plants*
*
        
*


----------



## Mohican (May 16, 2015)

Looks amazing! HOw do they smell?

Wait till the hairs recede and the calyxes plump up more. They could double in weight in the next week or two.


----------



## TheChemist77 (May 16, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 2 Update
> Day 105
> Flowering Day 62
> Left Tub - Chronic Thunder ~ 53 Plants
> ...


lookin good,, which strain is best producer?? earliest finish strain? most frosted?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 17, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Looks amazing! HOw do they smell?
> 
> Wait till the hairs recede and the calyxes plump up more. They could double in weight in the next week or two.


I sure hope so! Skunk #1 smells fantastic. Very fruity and sweet. The Chronic Thunder's just kind of smell blah...nothing special.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 17, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> lookin good,, which strain is best producer?? earliest finish strain? most frosted?


They were supposed to finish at around the same time. From the 1st chapter, each of these 2 strains were very frosty, finished around 60 days. The Chronic Thunder was the best producer. This chapter though the Skunk #1's are far superior. The close proximity combined with the shared root space has proven to have lots of negative consequences. They just have not thrived like before.

Oh well...drastically different technique on the horizon once these finish.


----------



## akhiymjames (May 17, 2015)

Yea with that many plants trying to thrive in a small space would be hard for them to really come out like you wanted them. This just shows how strong cannabis is as I'm sure all those roots are just tangled galore and yet they are still putting out very good. I know your lil disappointed but you still should have some nice smoke. Looking forward to the next run


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 17, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Yea with that many plants trying to thrive in a small space would be hard for them to really come out like you wanted them. This just shows how strong cannabis is as I'm sure all those roots are just tangled galore and yet they are still putting out very good. I know your lil disappointed but you still should have some nice smoke. Looking forward to the next run


Thanks, me too. It took a little effort to get the seeds ordered from attitude. It involved 2 fraud alert calls from my bank, and both debit cards getting locks placed on them...lol
I was able to get all of them ordered over the span of 3 orders tho so its all good. Looking like June 1 is the probable go date.


----------



## DirtyNerd (May 17, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Thanks, me too. It took a little effort to get the seeds ordered from attitude. It involved 2 fraud alert calls from my bank, and both debit cards getting locks placed on them...lol
> I was able to get all of them ordered over the span of 3 orders tho so its all good. Looking like June 1 is the probable go date.


Great news bro i would be looking at the post box every day for all the goodies also i just started my Fem Seed project first spray and will be flowering them in a a few days so wish me luck


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 17, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Great news bro i would be looking at the post box every day for all the goodies also i just started my Fem Seed project first spray and will be flowering them in a a few days so wish me luck


I hate to be always asking you for favors, but can you please document your experience with the spray? Like logging the date(s) that you spray and stuff? I'm really excited to see how this plays out for you.


----------



## DirtyNerd (May 17, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I hate to be always asking you for favors, but can you please document your experience with the spray? Like logging the date(s) that you spray and stuff? I'm really excited to see how this plays out for you.


Yes ill be keeping a log in a note pad but also trying to document as much as i can online  to help people out did my first post and will keep it up till the end of harvested seeds


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## DirtyNerd (May 17, 2015)

I have two plants that will be seed slaves and one for making pollen only flowering under a 250 HPS but should do the job


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 17, 2015)

I have another topic that I'm hoping you guys can give me your suggestions on.

In my small scale V1 octagon, I placed seedlings that were germinated in 1.5" rockwool cubes inside of 2 inch net pots, directly into the 4 PVC pipe and just top watered as necessary. What I was wanting to learn was whether or not the tap root would be able to make the 2 inch journey down to the flowing water. What I found was that only 1 of the 7 plants did so. It took 11 days for that plants root to reach the water and 10 days later his roots were 18 inches long. The other 6 plants never reached the water. The roots were seemingly being air pruned.

So for the big run coming up, it's vital that I don't put the net pots into the PVC pipe until I have roots that will hit the water. This is the best idea I have so far:
  

I just ordered Rapid Rooters but I also have 1.5" rockwool. My idea is to fill the net pots with either of those 2, place a dome on top and then place 6.0 water in the tray just high enough so that the netpots will be sitting like 1/4" above the water line. Probably put a small air stone in each tray to agitate the water. What do you think?


----------



## skunkwreck (May 17, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I hate to be always asking you for favors, but can you please document your experience with the spray? Like logging the date(s) that you spray and stuff? I'm real





DirtyNerd said:


> I have two plants that will be seed slaves and one for making pollen only flowering under a 250 HPS but should do the job


I'm getting subbed for that CS grow .
Edit : HDS I don't know how you got quoted too lol


----------



## akhiymjames (May 17, 2015)

Yea I'll be watching Nerds fem seed making journey. @DirtyNerd will you just be collecting pollen? Are you gonna flower the sprayed plant first collect pollen and then pollinate the girls? That's what I would do



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I have another topic that I'm hoping you guys can give me your suggestions on.
> 
> In my small scale V1 octagon, I placed seedlings that were germinated in 1.5" rockwool cubes inside of 2 inch net pots, directly into the 4 PVC pipe and just top watered as necessary. What I was wanting to learn was whether or not the tap root would be able to make the 2 inch journey down to the flowing water. What I found was that only 1 of the 7 plants did so. It took 11 days for that plants root to reach the water and 10 days later his roots were 18 inches long. The other 6 plants never reached the water. The roots were seemingly being air pruned.
> 
> ...


That sounds like a good idea bro. You can hand water them till the roots get long enough. They won't take much to get abundant long as they don't dry out and stay moist you should have nice roots and a couple weeks. Since you've done the experiment you know to not put them in there till roots are long enough so whatever you come up with will be good just don't make it to complicated.


----------



## DirtyNerd (May 17, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I have another topic that I'm hoping you guys can give me your suggestions on.
> 
> In my small scale V1 octagon, I placed seedlings that were germinated in 1.5" rockwool cubes inside of 2 inch net pots, directly into the 4 PVC pipe and just top watered as necessary. What I was wanting to learn was whether or not the tap root would be able to make the 2 inch journey down to the flowing water. What I found was that only 1 of the 7 plants did so. It took 11 days for that plants root to reach the water and 10 days later his roots were 18 inches long. The other 6 plants never reached the water. The roots were seemingly being air pruned.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a good plan air stone would also help or you will just need to change out the water every couple of days or what I do when starting clones/seedlings is have the base of the tray covered in perlite it's great as the roots just grow In to it and also makes for easy transplant once the roots are at the size you need the perlite is good becuase it holds the water well works well for me but each to there own


----------



## DirtyNerd (May 17, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Yea I'll be watching Nerds fem seed making journey. @DirtyNerd will you just be collecting pollen? Are you gonna flower the sprayed plant first collect pollen and then pollinate the girls? That's what I would do
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds like a good idea bro. You can hand water them till the roots get long enough. They won't take much to get abundant long as they don't dry out and stay moist you should have nice roots and a couple weeks. Since you've done the experiment you know to not put them in there till roots are long enough so whatever you come up with will be good just don't make it to complicated.


Hey bro I am going to collect pollen but at the same time I am just going to leave them in the same tent with the he she so she can spread her pollen with the fans blowing on her the tent is isolated from the others and I'll make sure once Iv been playing around in there I won't go in the other area till changed and washed once I have collect pollen and the other girls are growing seeds I'll kill off the he/she 

I am really interested to see how this works and to see what the seeds turn out like ever if most are shit I am sure in the 100+ seeds there will be a couple of keepers 

It's just going to be a super skunk x super skunk and super skunk x blue dream but once I have the pollen I can cross her with overs and try make some more lady boys with other stains If this is successful I'll be posting as much info as I can as the info I have found has been a little shit


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 17, 2015)

Oh man...the tray with perlite sounds perfect.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 17, 2015)

Ill just keep a big ass tray of perlite moist and push the net pots half way in...ez!


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## DirtyNerd (May 17, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Ill just keep a big ass tray of perlite moist and push the net pots half way in...ez!


Glad I could help my random stoner brain sometimes think of good things ..... Sometimes ....


----------



## TheChemist77 (May 17, 2015)

i ran both sensi skunk #1 and seedsmans original skunk#1.. sensi finished a week sooner with way more crystals, but the seedsman is supposedly a stabilized hybrid, it yielded more...over all i liked sensi's way better..had very bad luck with sensi's super skunk though, it was ditch weed garbage,,not what i paid for...


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 17, 2015)

In my 1st chapter, I had 2 Skunk #1's and was pretty impressed. They came in around average for the yield but scored very highly on quality. The general appearance in Chapter 2 has been pretty consistent...height does not have a ton of variance. Bud formation and crystals seems pretty consistent. I decided against Skunk #1 for the 3rd round but I will definitely be coming back to them.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 17, 2015)

Just went down and watered with 14 gallons. I'm seeing dramatic swelling going on which puts a smile on my face. I did not take any pictures as I took the MH out and put the HPS back in. I'm doing a lot of flip flopping of bulbs.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 18, 2015)

All 3 of my attitude orders have officially shipped. Woohoo! V3 octagon is going well. Making some final decisions on vertical spacing as well as row transition.


----------



## akhiymjames (May 18, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> All 3 of my attitude orders have officially shipped. Woohoo! V3 octagon is going well. Making some final decisions on vertical spacing as well as row transition.


They better had hooked you up fareal. If they don't I would never fuck with them again. They should love you for life and give you stuff all the time cus nobody makes orders like that


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 18, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> They better had hooked you up fareal. If they don't I would never fuck with them again. They should love you for life and give you stuff all the time cus nobody makes orders like that


Haha...well...couple of freebies each order...not many. Its the only place ive ever used and every order has arrived safely. Guess im a creature of habit snd why fix what isnt broken. But youre right...since i typically place orders for more than a thousand bux at a time...they could show me a little love...lol


----------



## DogEatWeedWorld (May 18, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Haha...well...couple of freebies each order...not many. Its the only place ive ever used and every order has arrived safely. Guess im a creature of habit snd why fix what isnt broken. But youre right...since i typically place orders for more than a thousand bux at a time...they could show me a little love...lol


Kind of why I keep going to herbies... more expensive than other places, but I have piece of mind knowing my shipment will get delivered and guaranteed.


----------



## bf80255 (May 18, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Haha...well...couple of freebies each order...not many. Its the only place ive ever used and every order has arrived safely. Guess im a creature of habit snd why fix what isnt broken. But youre right...since i typically place orders for more than a thousand bux at a time...they could show me a little love...lol


why dont you make your own seeds?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 18, 2015)

bf80255 said:


> why dont you make your own seeds?


That is definitely on the table as a possibility moving forward.


----------



## Mr.Head (May 18, 2015)

Dude just send pics of your grows around to a few breeders you're interested in and say you'd like to test their gear. You know how to grow, what you do might be a bit unorthodox  but your plants look great and that's what matters. 

I'm sure you could find someone interested to help you out in your journey, and in turn help them out by testing the genetics. Worth a shot  

Granted you might not want to be watching for hermies on plants packed that tightly.


----------



## akhiymjames (May 18, 2015)

Mr.Head said:


> Dude just send pics of your grows around to a few breeders you're interested in and say you'd like to test their gear. You know how to grow, what you do might be a bit unorthodox  but your plants look great and that's what matters.
> 
> I'm sure you could find someone interested to help you out in your journey, and in turn help them out by testing the genetics. Worth a shot
> 
> Granted you might not want to be watching for hermies on plants packed that tightly.


Yea with an octagon I wouldn't want to check for herms and stuff even tho that could happen with bought gear but test strains you know nothing about.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 18, 2015)

Mr.Head said:


> Dude just send pics of your grows around to a few breeders you're interested in and say you'd like to test their gear. You know how to grow, what you do might be a bit unorthodox  but your plants look great and that's what matters.
> 
> I'm sure you could find someone interested to help you out in your journey, and in turn help them out by testing the genetics. Worth a shot
> 
> Granted you might not want to be watching for hermies on plants packed that tightly.


Very good points bro...and I could totally see breeders being interested (maybe). Hermies was a big worry going into this 2nd chapter but I havent seen shit...no signs of nanners or seeds so I think I'm OK for this round.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 18, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Yea with an octagon I wouldn't want to check for herms and stuff even tho that could happen with bought gear but test strains you know nothing about.


The octagon will be a lot easier to check on plants than my current round. It's actually going to be in 2 pieces which will allow me to open it.


----------



## akhiymjames (May 18, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Very good points bro...and I could totally see breeders being interested (maybe). Hermies was a big worry going into this 2nd chapter but I havent seen shit...no signs of nanners or seeds so I think I'm OK for this round.


Having it full with tester plants you or the breeders knows nothing about doesn't sound like fun. Having to check every single plant for herms would suck plus dealing with males oh no lol


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 18, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Having it full with tester plants you or the breeders knows nothing about doesn't sound like fun. Having to check every single plant for herms would suck plus dealing with males oh no lol


Very good point. I guess a high volume grow is not exactly suitable as a test bed.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 18, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 108
Flowering Day 65*
*
Left Tub - Chronic Thunder ~ 53 Plants
Right Tub - Skunk #1 ~ 56 Plants*

Chugging right along I guess. I'm sorry it's the same 10 plants over and over. It's just hard to really see the others...they are there I promise!. This big tall bitch right in front does not help things either.


----------



## akhiymjames (May 18, 2015)

Forest of ganja!!!! Looking amazing bro that big gal in front is the watcher of them all lol she makes sure all of them are on point. Swelling up nicely should be a nice harvest for you bro. Look forward to seeing the finish.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 18, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Forest of ganja!!!! Looking amazing bro that big gal in front is the watcher of them all lol she makes sure all of them are on point. Swelling up nicely should be a nice harvest for you bro. Look forward to seeing the finish.


I'm getting some really odd fox tailing on some of the thunders. Take a look at the last picture...the plant that is center right. The top cola has started splitting into 2. Those 2 pony tails are about 2 or 3 inches tall now...lol


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 18, 2015)

Wish I was strong enough to lift these tubs out of the tent for a close inspection. They are sitting on milk crates and while I might be able to get them out I'm certainly not man enough to get them back in. Got no helpers so that's not an option. Watered yesterday...come Thursday I'll see what they feel like and maybe I'll give it a try.


----------



## DirtyNerd (May 18, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 2 Update
> Day 108
> Flowering Day 65
> Left Tub - Chronic Thunder ~ 53 Plants
> ...


Looking great bro they are really packing it on now I can't wait to see the root ball in the tubs once you chop Not long now great job


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 18, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Looking great bro they are really packing it on now I can't wait to see the root ball in the tubs once you chop Not long now great job


It's going to be redic. You can rub your hand across the top of the coco and there is nothing loose. It's just one massive chunk of roots.


----------



## DirtyNerd (May 18, 2015)

Need to put the tubs on wheels  or if you have a table the same height put it next to the tent and pull it on to the table but only if you ca. Get to be back of the tent to pull it back in to the tent


----------



## DirtyNerd (May 18, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> It's going to be redic. You can rub your hand across the top of the coco and there is nothing loose. It's just one massive chunk of roots.


Easy to clean up just let it dry out then pull it out don't break your back when it's wet


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 18, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Easy to clean up just let it dry out then pull it out don't break your back when it's wet


I'll try. The minute this grow gets chopped, the tent comes down and the room gets cleared for the octagon. I got about 60 feet to the door...thank god my basement has walk out french doors and woods all around...lol I'll drag it out and take pics afterwards.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 18, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Need to put the tubs on wheels  or if you have a table the same height put it next to the tent and pull it on to the table but only if you ca. Get to be back of the tent to pull it back in to the tent


Wheels would have been brilliant. You're on a roll today! Can I hire you for design consulting?


----------



## DirtyNerd (May 18, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Wheels would have been brilliant. You're on a roll today! Can I hire you for design consulting?


Haha any time bro


----------



## akhiymjames (May 18, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I'm getting some really odd fox tailing on some of the thunders. Take a look at the last picture...the plant that is center right. The top cola has started splitting into 2. Those 2 pony tails are about 2 or 3 inches tall now...lol


Bro I see that that's crazy lol your gonna have to get some good pics of that when you harvest. Never seen that before I've seen self topped plants but nothing where top bud splits into two. You got colas growing out of colas


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 18, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Bro I see that that's crazy lol your gonna have to get some good pics of that when you harvest. Never seen that before I've seen self topped plants but nothing where top bud splits into two. You got colas growing out of colas


I sure will. The thunders are kind of all over the place as far as appearance and maturity. But the Skunk #1's...they are pimpin pretty good. As I weed thru the tub, virtually every single plant is just like the handful you can see in the pictures...just shorter. Big fat meaty top cola...great color, great resin. Wish I had done both tubs with this.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 19, 2015)

Sometime within the next few days I'm going to remove the 2 tubs from the tent, break down the tent, add a 2nd 600...I'll do one HPS and one MH and finish them in this fashion. I know this is completely cheating and my grams per watt that I'll report at the end will be skewed, I just don't care. I need these to finish as quickly as possible and to be the best they can be. Plus this will give me a jump start on getting the room prepared for the octagon. I expect some pretty kick ass pictures once I do this as I'll be able to see everything much easier.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 19, 2015)

It will also test my odor system. My tent is my primary odor control but the room the tent is in also is controlled. Without the tent I'll be relying on only the room...fingers crossed.


----------



## bf80255 (May 19, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> That is definitely on the table as a possibility moving forward.


if your droppin racks on orders just toss in a bottle of tiresias mist over on amazon and fem 1 or 2 of the girls you order and badda bing! free femmed seeds lol


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 19, 2015)

bf80255 said:


> if your droppin racks on orders just toss in a bottle of tiresias mist over on amazon and fem 1 or 2 of the girls you order and badda bing! free femmed seeds lol


I will be doing so soon. This is probably the last big order of seeds ill ever make.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 20, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 110
Flowering Day 67*
*
Left Tub - Chronic Thunder ~ 52 Plants
Right Tub - Skunk #1 ~ 56 Plants*

Today was the big day to bring the girls out from the tent. These tubs weigh a ton and it was difficult but I got em out without damage. Brought on a 2nd 600. Running one HPS and one MH Blue. 2 600's still doesn't seem like enough light. Looking at them outside of the tent, I'm kind of shocked they were in there. The seem to take up so much more space now...lol

There are a few Charlie Brown's but to my surprise most of them are actually doing OK.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 20, 2015)

I could just be covered in resin from moving them but it seems like the odor control is not working perfectly like I had hoped. I hope its just me I'm smelling. I've got the big 740 CFM fan exhausting the room and then im running 2 more fan/filter combos inside the room just scrubbing.


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## DirtyNerd (May 20, 2015)

Great job on pulling the girls out shit looks crazy I can't be leave how huge it looks when its out of the tent I think yours going to do a lot better then you were thinking are they staying out of the tent now ... Till finished


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 20, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Great job on pulling the girls out shit looks crazy I can't be leave how huge it looks when its out of the tent I think yours going to do a lot better then you were thinking are they staying out of the tent now ... Till finished


I think you're right! The Skunk #1's are much more mature than the CT's and will certainly finish 1st. Most of the MH is on the Skunk #1's and the HPS is mostly on the Thunders but I'd say over 1/2 of all the plants are getting a nice 50/50 mix of both lights which should be great.


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## bf80255 (May 20, 2015)




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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 20, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Great job on pulling the girls out shit looks crazy I can't be leave how huge it looks when its out of the tent I think yours going to do a lot better then you were thinking are they staying out of the tent now ... Till finished


Yes...they wont be going back into the tent. I'm going to go ahead and finish them with the 2 600's, break down the tent and start cleaning the room getting it prepped for octa-goodness.


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## Mr.Head (May 20, 2015)

bf80255 said:


> View attachment 3423325


Damn where those kids trick or treating? I used to get candy.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 20, 2015)

Well...odor control seems fine. I think I was just smelling myself from touching them. A big sigh of relief. Final assembly on the octagon underway. Hope to have it ready to go by the end of the weekend.


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## akhiymjames (May 20, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Well...odor control seems fine. I think I was just smelling myself from touching them. A big sigh of relief. Final assembly on the octagon underway. Hope to have it ready to go by the end of the weekend.


I hate messing with the plants sometime as the smells stick to you like crazy  especially if they're dank!!! I almost went to work smelling like lemon diesel the other day. Luckily I keep smell good on me lol. Can't wait to see this next run going


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 20, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> I hate messing with the plants sometime as the smells stick to you like crazy  especially if they're dank!!! I almost went to work smelling like lemon diesel the other day. Luckily I keep smell good on me lol. Can't wait to see this next run going


Haha...too funny.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 22, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 112
Flowering Day 69*
*
Chronic Thunder Tub ~ 50 Plants
Skunk #1 Tub ~ 50 Plants*

I removed 7 Charlie Brown plants and this is pretty much what I will end up with...50 out of 86 in each tub. Some of the Skunk #1's are swelling massively. I'm probably going to start slowing harvesting them in a few days. The Chronic Thunders have quite a bit of time left. Some of the CT's are getting massive...really massive. Like 12 inch colas or longer and 4 inches in diameter.


Chronic Thunder


Chronic Thunder 
 
Skunk #1


Skunk #1 - Note some of the calyx swelling on the top. 

Skunk #1

 




Skunk #1 - Sorry this one turned out like shit...I tried to shoot this blind. She is the most swollen. Her fan leaves are starting to purple up too.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 22, 2015)

In picture #4, this plant's leaves are curling up pretty bad. I think this is a sign of too much food maybe? What do you guys think?


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## DirtyNerd (May 22, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> In picture #4, this plant's leaves are curling up pretty bad. I think this is a sign of too much food maybe? What do you guys think?


Can be from the temps being to high or low or PH my brother had it happen on his last grow it turned out to be PH i told him to get a new PH pen and it fixed it self after a week
awesome job by the way its great to see the purple starting to come out on a couple of the skunks very cool.

i noticed it on a couple of my bubblegum leafs when i chopped her down looks like she will be around 5-6oz not the best rest of the girls should be done with in the next 2 weeks but will see i am going to let them go as lone as they want the blue dream now are under better lighting so i am looking forward to see how much weight they put on.

Great job bro keep it up not long now


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 22, 2015)

Temps in the room are 75 lights on. I did have the lights a little close perhaps so I raised both of them up several inches. I tested the ph runoff from yesterday's watering and it was 6.0. Since I haven't really ever flushed these tubs i just ran a bunch of tap water thru the skunk tub. My tap water is 7.0 and 147 ppm. Runoff today was 722 ppm at 6.0...lol. i think this will help and next water might be tap water again ph'd to 6.

I just flushed the CT tub in the same way and run-off for this one was only 525 so the CT's are eating more than the Skunk #1's...not surprising based on the maturity. Don't think I can continue watering both tubs the same but no biggie...almost done.

On a side note, my first of three orders from Attitude arrived for the next round.


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## sky rocket (May 22, 2015)

What strains did you get?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 22, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> What strains did you get?


HSO Blue Dream, Blueberry Headband, Sour Blueberry and then Female Seeds C99.
40 of each.


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## marquezmurder (May 23, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 2 Update
> Day 112
> Flowering Day 69
> Chronic Thunder Tub ~ 50 Plants
> ...


I have some chronic thunder in veg, YAY!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 23, 2015)

marquezmurder said:


> I have some chronic thunder in veg, YAY!


haha...sweet! They were my best yielders in Chapter 1.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 24, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 114 Part #1
Flowering Day 71*
*
Chronic Thunder Tub ~ 49Plants
Skunk #1 Tub ~ 49 Plants*

This will be a 2 part update as I have a lot of pictures to share. Many of the Skunk #1's are swelling nicely and I plan on starting to harvest them beginning Wednesday. The Chronic Thunders are still growing but have not started to swell. Once they do, there are going to be some giants....not a lot but some.

I rotated the Skunk #1 tub 180 degrees so the 1/2 that were under the MH mainly are now under the HPS and vice versa.

These first pictures are group and canopy shots. The follow-up will be some close-ups. It's very easy to tell what is what. The Chronic Thunders have many more pistols than the Skunk #1's and the Skunk #1's have way more resin.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 24, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Update
Day 114 Part #2
Flowering Day 71*

Some random close-ups. Most are of Skunk #1's but one or two CT's in here too.


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## glockdoc (May 26, 2015)

wow looking great


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## hayrolld (May 27, 2015)

Hey Hot Diggity, awesome grow/experiments! Its really cool to see all the testing you have done and the plans you have for more in the next grow. Round two I think was slow due to the chilly start, but I bet it comes out well in the end  My apologies if I missed it, but is there a reason you are not considering clones, or a separate veg area? It would add watts but cut down time in your flower area so grams per kilowatt hour should still be OK.


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## bf80255 (May 28, 2015)

you said the skunk was the overall winner right? how about calyx to leaf ratio? a lot of these plants look to have a bit more leaf than Id like to see in the bud, are both strains like that?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 28, 2015)

Thanks guys. All of the top half of the plants were harvested yesterday and today. Much of the bottom half on most is garbage and I'll probably just throw away. All in all I have mixed feelings. The overall appearance is sub-standard. Not really sure what to expect for the yield. I'll take a bunch of pictures during this last phase and be sure to share.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 28, 2015)

Oh...and Attitude order #2 of 3 arrived today safely. Just one more to go and it cleared customs so I should be good.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 28, 2015)

bf80255 said:


> you said the skunk was the overall winner right? how about calyx to leaf ratio? a lot of these plants look to have a bit more leaf than Id like to see in the bud, are both strains like that?


It's really a mixed bag but yes...many have very poor calyx to leaf ratio.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 28, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> Hey Hot Diggity, awesome grow/experiments! Its really cool to see all the testing you have done and the plans you have for more in the next grow. Round two I think was slow due to the chilly start, but I bet it comes out well in the end  My apologies if I missed it, but is there a reason you are not considering clones, or a separate veg area? It would add watts but cut down time in your flower area so grams per kilowatt hour should still be OK.


The only reason I have not considered that for now is space, the amount of time involved and the quantities I would need. Right now I'm only focused on process. I gotta get a reproducible technique/style that is going to get me my 2+ grams per watt at no more than 95 days start to finish. After I do that, home made fem seeds or clones will come into the picture. Right now, I don't mind dumping a few grand into seeds but longer term that will become cost prohibitive.

Chapter 3 will be starting in a couple of weeks. This will be a drastically different approach to growing and I will be creating a new journal for it.


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## Dadioski (May 28, 2015)

Hey HDS, do you have a list of all your tested strains with traits and your ratings on same in one list? I appreciate all the work you are doing here, it will help me in my seed selection.
2+ GPW a nice goal.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 28, 2015)

Dadioski said:


> Hey HDS, do you have a list of all your tested strains with traits and your ratings on same in one list? I appreciate all the work you are doing here, it will help me in my seed selection.
> 2+ GPW a nice goal.


Absolutely. Ill post it on here for you tonight.


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## RED DANSON (May 28, 2015)

super interesting thread, looking forward to that strain report, that sounds rad.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 29, 2015)

Dadioski said:


> Hey HDS, do you have a list of all your tested strains with traits and your ratings on same in one list? I appreciate all the work you are doing here, it will help me in my seed selection.
> 2+ GPW a nice goal.


The Grow Tier is a number between 1 and 3 with 1 having the best growing traits and 3 is the worst. The criteria was calyx to leaf ratio, ease of trim, height (extremely tall was penalized), resin, yield, and just general overall appearance.

The smoke tier represents reviews from 2 blind testers. So when you you see 1/2, one reviewer graded it 1 (the best) and the other a 2 (average)

#2 - Barneys Farm Seeds Top Dawg
Fruity...Pineapple
60-70 days
THC: 19%
CBD: 1.3%
Clear, energetic high
Sativa 50% Indica 50%.

12.5 Grams. Large top cola. Very leafy. Not dense.

Grow Tier: 2
Smoke Tier: 1/2


#3 - Barneys Farm Seeds G13 Haze
70 to 80
ripe fruits and earthy tones
THC: 21%
CBD: 0.7%
Sativa 80% Indica 20%
uplifting and still retaining the heavy hitting indica undertones

Plant #1: 4.8 Grams (Harvested way early)
Plant #2: 13.6 Grams. Little leafy. Probably still immature

Grow Tier: 2
Smoke Tier: 1/2



#4 - Barneys Farm Seeds Chronic Thunder
THC: More than 20%
CBD: High
Indica stone
57 to 62 days
100% Indica

Plant #1 - 15.2 Grams
Plant #2 - 20.6 Grams

More body than head. Pretty heavy stone. Not as social.

Grow Tier: 1
Smoke Tier: 1/2




#5 - Barneys Farm Seeds Red Dragon
THC: 23%
CBD: 1.2%
Sweet Guava fruit
Very resinous with red hair
Narcotic high but is mostly sativa
60-65 days
Sativa 50% Indica 50%

10.8 Grams. Great resin. Pretty
Grow Tier: 2
Smoke Tier: 2


#6 - Delicious Seeds Critical Jack Herer
9 Weeks
20% THC
Euphoric with heavy mix
20% Indica / 80% Sativa

Plant #1: 14.5 Grams. Very pretty
Plant #2: 19.9 Grams. Dense. Great resin. Easy Trim.

Grow Tier: 1
Smoke Tier: 1


#7 - KC Brains Northern Lights Special
Heavy lethargic stone
THC: 18% to 20%
8 to 11 weeks

Plant #2: 18.1 Grams. Great Resin. Overall very good

Grow Tier: 1
Smoke Tier: 3


#8 - Reserva Privada Sour Kush AKA Headband
Not too overpowering
9 to 10 weeks

9.9 Grams - Great resin.

Grow Tier: 3
Smoke Tier: 1, 2


#9 - Sensi Seeds Skunk #1
THC: 8% but could be more
7 to 11 weeks
35% Sativa / 65% Indica
High/Stone combo...almost psychedlic

4" cola and 5" cola...I did not track which pot size was which.
Prolly around 27" tall based on what the others were...i failed to log it

Plant #1: 11.3 Grams - Nice
Plant #2: 15.4 Grams - Nice

Grow Tier: 1
Smoke Tier: 1


#10 - Sensi Seeds Silver Haze #9
Almost pure sativa
65 to 80 days

9.8 Grams - Pretty leafy but insane resin. Didnt even really need to do much trim.
Pretty sure she could have gone much longer

Grow Tier: 3
Smoke Tier: 2


#11 - Barneys Farm Seeds Critical Kush
THC: 25%
CBD: 2.1%
55 to 60
Indica
Knockout stoney high

4" Pot - 30" tall, 5" cola
3" Pots - 30" tall, 7" cola

Plant #2: 5.4 Grams

Grow Tier: 3
Smoke Tier: 2



#12 - Bomb Seeds Bubble Bomb
Indica Dominant
8 to 9 weeks
THC: 18-20%

Very weak plant. Short, small cola...fail.
9.2 Grams - Hmm...not so bad afterall

Grow Tier: 3
Smoke Tier: 3


#13 - Connoisseur Genetics Seeds East Coast Sour Diesel Haze
Lemon, Piney, Diesal
10-12 weeks
Very strong
Mostly Sativa

11 Grams. Looked awesome during flowering as if it was a monster. Buds ended up being airy.

Grow Tier: 2
Smoke Tier: 1,3


#14 - Strain Hunters Seedbank Seeds Flowerbomb Kush
70% indica - 30% sativa
8 Weeks
Taste (burned): earthy, vegetal, fruity, sweet.??Scent (unburned): very kushy, earthy, orange, rose, with some warmer, spicier background.
Indica 1st then sativa afterwards...complex

9.2 Grams - Pretty ugly...terrible trim

Grow Tier: 3
Smoke Tier: 3



#18 - Barneys Farm Seeds Blue Cheese
Calming and Relaxing Indica
Blueberry...berries n cream 
60-65 days
THC: 20%
CBD: 1.3%

8.7 Grams

Grow Tier: 3
Smoke Tier: 3



#19 - Delicious Seeds Critical Sensi Star
50 to 55 days
Citrus...grapefruit, kiwi or lemon
THC: 18% +
Very Indica

Taken at day 59
29" Tall
5" Cola
9 Grams - Little on the leafy side

Grow Tier: 3
Smoke Tier: 2



#20 - Dinafem Seeds Critical Cheese
65% sativa, 35% indica
Fruity lemon, pine, perfume, cheese
55 to 60 days
THC: 19%
CBD: 0.3%
12.7 Grams

Grow Tier: 1
Smoke Tier: 3, 1


#23 - Samsara Seeds Green Love Potion
Mint and Lavendar or sweet fruit
55 to 65 days
20% sativa, 80% indica

14 Grams. Good resin. Fairly easy trim. Pretty.

Grow Tier: 1
Smoke Tier: 1, 3


#24 - Seedism Seeds Cheese
Genetics: Cheese clone S1
Flowering: 8-9 weeks
Mostly Sativa (70%-80%)

8.5 Grams. Leafy.

Grow Tier: 3
Smoke Tier: 3


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## cc2012 (May 29, 2015)

Nice Thread HdS, Will jump on board if that's OK, My next Grow will be 12/12 from bean, So been back reading through this and any other Info I can find..still looking into Strains at the moment, thinking along the lines of Sativa.. maybe D.P. Efurio(Photo and/or Auto) and possibly D.P. Powerplant and when other that's caught my eye is.. .. D.P. DesFran.

anyhoos back to tha daily grind!!

atb


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## Dadioski (May 29, 2015)

You lab tested some of these as well? oh man, very nice, great info.
Looks like I may to grow some Jack Herer, never have, but I keep hearing good things about it.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 29, 2015)

Dadioski said:


> You lab tested some of these as well? oh man, very nice, great info.
> Looks like I may to grow some Jack Herer, never have, but I keep hearing good things about it.


These were not lab tested. The THC/CBD is just info I copied from the breeder description.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 29, 2015)

*Beginning Harvest Pictures
*
I've got all of the top's hanging up and I'll go in for a closer trim in a few days. I cut down the rest of the plants and took what I thought was at least decent regarding stuff under the top cola. Ended up with quite a bit more than I expected. Wish I could hire someone to trim that 

Looking at them under incandescent light instead of HPS/MH and the quality looks to be there. Not nearly as sub-par as I originally stated. Once I get a better trim and a good cure it should end up OK. I'm going for a super slow hang again as that worked awesome last time. I'm manually turning on and the dehumidifier as needed to really slow down this process.

Once stuff starts getting their 2nd trim and is dry enough to jar I'll get another update. I bought (4) 2 1/2 gallon jars and man are they big. Can't wait to use them.


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

Dadioski said:


> You lab tested some of these as well? oh man, very nice, great info.
> Looks like I may to grow some Jack Herer, never have, but I keep hearing good things about it.


They told me that it took Jack Herer to make my Pure Power Plant, just sayin' -- Great choice.


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 2 Update
> Day 114 Part #1
> Flowering Day 71
> Chronic Thunder Tub ~ 49Plants
> ...


What does 12/12 from seed mean? You have "Day 114, Flowering Day 71" so I'm confused. I'm also a newbie. I have a friend who's doing 12/12 from seed and he went from seed to harvest on 12/12, no veg. I'm really confused. It looks like the simplest, most stress-free way to go because you don't have to be there to babysit them all the time like I do.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 29, 2015)

Silky T said:


> What does 12/12 from seed mean? You have "Day 114, Flowering Day 71" so I'm confused. I'm also a newbie. I have a friend who's doing 12/12 from seed and he went from seed to harvest on 12/12, no veg. I'm really confused. It looks like the simplest, most stress-free way to go because you don't have to be there to babysit them all the time like I do.


Day 114, Flowering Day 71 meant it's been 114 days since the seeds went into rockwool and 71 days since the 1st set of pistols were seen. 12/12 from seed simply means from the moment the seed is germinated, the light schedule is set to 12 on 12 off. The obviously won't start flowering until they are sexually mature but there is no "Veg" period in the traditional sense using 18/6 or 24/0.


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## cc2012 (May 29, 2015)

Think HdS breaks it down for peeps, is indeed 12/12 from Seed Grow, but I think he watched,waited and Rec what Day flowering started.. Day 114 being the Whole Grow..if you follow(though I could be Wrong, happens a lot.. LoL!!) atb


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Day 114, Flowering Day 71 meant it's been 114 days since the seeds went into rockwool and 71 days since the 1st set of pistols were seen. 12/12 from seed simply means from the moment the seed is germinated, the light schedule is set to 12 on 12 off. The obviously won't start flowering until they are sexually mature but there is no "Veg" period in the traditional sense using 18/6 or 24/0.


For a newbie, this is valuable info. I didn't know it could be done until this week.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 29, 2015)

For a variety of reasons, this grow took much longer. Typically you should expect to see the 1st signs of flowering between days 30 and 40 and then, depending on strain, roughly 60 days after that you're done.


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Day 114, Flowering Day 71 meant it's been 114 days since the seeds went into rockwool and 71 days since the 1st set of pistols were seen. 12/12 from seed simply means from the moment the seed is germinated, the light schedule is set to 12 on 12 off. The obviously won't start flowering until they are sexually mature but there is no "Veg" period in the traditional sense using 18/6 or 24/0.


 This is also confusing because I have 4 in flower and 5 in veg and they were all germinated the same week. Some are no bigger than a 1-2 week old and they are the same strains that grew normally to nearly a foot in 28 days. See (photo attached). So from day one to begin veg was also about a month? Am I still confused?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 29, 2015)

Silky T said:


> This is also confusing because I have 4 in flower and 5 in veg and they were all germinated the same week. Some are no bigger than a 1-2 week old and they are the same strains that grew normally to nearly a foot in 28 days. See (photo attached). So from day one to begin veg was also about a month? Am I still confused?


That is interesting. So these are all 28 days old and you've been running a 12/12 light cycle the whole time?


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## Mohican (May 29, 2015)

Some strains are sensitive to high levels of P and K, and will start flowering.


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> That is interesting. So these are all 28 days old and you've been running a 12/12 light cycle the whole time?


No, no, I haven't, I was talking about somebody else. I'm running 4 on 12/12 and 5 on 18/6 and yes, they are all 28 days, give or take a day or two. I was talking about the fact that I'm not following the 12/12 thing unless you put the seed in and then day 40-something, started 12/12 because of the dicrespancy between 114 and 71. I'm misunderstanding. I would think it would be about a week of germination, then 12/12, that way you'd have only one week difference in *Day 114 Part #1, Flowering Day 71* instead of 41 days- what was going on those 41 days?
The reason I am wondering about this is the fact that I put my seeds in on May 1 (ordered on 4/20/15 from Nirvana). Some of the seeds popped right off the bat and some never came up at all and some all days in between. That's why I had to plant all 20. I would wait for a few days, then nothing, then plant 3 more and some would come up and sometimes none. But my point is that there are so many different days I could say I went in veg because all but 4 of the 20 came up at different times. That's why I have 4 big ones and those little ones you see in the pic. There's not a 41-day difference in my good ones and my little ones, but it does happen I see, I think. 

I've never had any problems germinating or even just planting the seed in soil and it growing when I was growing outside. It just always seemed to come up. Some ppl on here say that Nirana seeds are "hit and miss" and I definitely got some "miss" ones . I find it odd that my 5 little ones are going into the flower cave a month or more behind the first 4 that were all planted around the same time (hence the 71 v. 114 discussion) It sucks. But then, it's given me an idea. I guess, since I have a second grow coming in behind the first one that now's the time to learn how to *cut and grow clones*. Then I could just keep it going FOREVER. Can I get a ballpark on how much a pound goes for primo weed? Both to pharmacies and street value. I'm just curious. I've dealt with other stuff but I find weed not only interesting but legal.  EXHALE.


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Beginning Harvest Pictures
> *
> I've got all of the top's hanging up and I'll go in for a closer trim in a few days. I cut down the rest of the plants and took what I thought was at least decent regarding stuff under the top cola. Ended up with quite a bit more than I expected. Wish I could hire someone to trim that
> 
> ...


I forgot to tell you how yummy these looked. Jeez. That is some awesome looking weed. I noticed your clones. They look like you start them with just a stem and no leaves whatsoever? Do the plants grow differently when you do that rather than a stem with one or two fan leaves?


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Beginning Harvest Pictures
> *
> I've got all of the top's hanging up and I'll go in for a closer trim in a few days. I cut down the rest of the plants and took what I thought was at least decent regarding stuff under the top cola. Ended up with quite a bit more than I expected. Wish I could hire someone to trim that
> 
> ...


Your statement, "Wish I could hire someone to trim that " In 2012 a friend of ours asked us to come out and help him trim his first harvest. He had 10 acres (40 acres total) in in Telluride, Colorado. We took a week and went out and it was a gorgeous trip. We'd trim from around 11 pm to the wee hours of the morning, in the basement and hung out during the day. It was in the Rockies so there was a lot to do. The house actually had a "trap basement" whereas, the door was in the middle of the living room floor under an oriental rug. I think it was an addition to the house-- really cool. Anyway, even tho we were friends, he still paid my CL husband and I each $200 a day, so we came home with an extra $2000 for the week and a pound followed us a week later of 12 different strains. We listened to Bob Marley all night, smoked and trimmed and it was great. He wanted us to come back out when Stewart finished this job that was due to complete in December (he had his stoke in November) and we _were_ going back to live. He was going to give us 10 of his 40 acres. It would have been a great retirement if only he could have held out one more month, I'll bet you everthing I own that he wouldn't have had that stroke had we gone to Colorado. What do you think? No stress, smoke weed, go skiing, the easy life for a change instead of working at Exxon 7 days a week, 12 hours a day, getting up at 3:30 in the morning, cooking breakfast with my eyes closed. It sucks. He could have started out as one of the security guards to chill before we did a grow. In Colorado, there were three guys with shotguns who took 8-hour shifts up at the grow. There was a 5th wheel parked on the property. Pretty cool setup. One of the guys that helps with security raises goats for cheese. And that was some of the best cheese I've ever eaten. The goats wander around the mountains while he's working. Didn't mean to go all off on that but when you said that, it reminded me. I type so fast that sometimes I don't realize how much I've said. (I was a paralegal for 33 years, comes with the job.) Ciao!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 29, 2015)

Silky T said:


> Your statement, "Wish I could hire someone to trim that " In 2012 a friend of ours asked us to come out and help him trim his first harvest. He had 10 acres (40 acres total) in in Telluride, Colorado. We took a week and went out and it was a gorgeous trip. We'd trim from around 11 pm to the wee hours of the morning, in the basement and hung out during the day. It was in the Rockies so there was a lot to do. The house actually had a "trap basement" whereas, the door was in the middle of the living room floor under an oriental rug. I think it was an addition to the house-- really cool. Anyway, even tho we were friends, he still paid my CL husband and I each $200 a day, so we came home with an extra $2000 for the week and a pound followed us a week later of 12 different strains. We listened to Bob Marley all night, smoked and trimmed and it was great. He wanted us to come back out when Stewart finished this job that was due to complete in December (he had his stoke in November) and we _were_ going back to live. He was going to give us 10 of his 40 acres. It would have been a great retirement if only he could have held out one more month, I'll bet you everthing I own that he wouldn't have had that stroke had we gone to Colorado. What do you think? No stress, smoke weed, go skiing, the easy life for a change instead of working at Exxon 7 days a week, 12 hours a day, getting up at 3:30 in the morning, cooking breakfast with my eyes closed. It sucks. He could have started out as one of the security guards to chill before we did a grow. In Colorado, there were three guys with shotguns who took 8-hour shifts up at the grow. There was a 5th wheel parked on the property. Pretty cool setup. One of the guys that helps with security raises goats for cheese. And that was some of the best cheese I've ever eaten. The goats wander around the mountains while he's working. Didn't mean to go all off on that but when you said that, it reminded me. I type so fast that sometimes I don't realize how much I've said. (I was a paralegal for 33 years, comes with the job.) Ciao!


Telluride is gorgeous. My dad took me there many times when I was younger to ride dirt bikes in the mountains.


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Telluride is gorgeous. My dad took me there many times when I was younger to ride dirt bikes in the mountains.


It's postcard gorgeous. Matter of fact, every pic I took looked like a post card. It was awesome. So you know what I mean.


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Some strains are sensitive to high levels of P and K, and will start flowering.


I've got to print out that page with the pics of the leaves that tell you what they need. Although some can be confusing. Like what makes them droop. Some say overwatering and on the other end of the spectrum, some say too much water. Throw a blonde in that equation and stir.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 29, 2015)

Here is a picture...somewhere in between Ouray and Telluride.
And yes, that's my dumb ass picking up my bike.


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Beginning Harvest Pictures
> *
> I've got all of the top's hanging up and I'll go in for a closer trim in a few days. I cut down the rest of the plants and took what I thought was at least decent regarding stuff under the top cola. Ended up with quite a bit more than I expected. Wish I could hire someone to trim that
> 
> ...


I see a lot of nugs in that top photo.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 29, 2015)

Here was a cool spot we stumbled upon riding.


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Here is a picture...somewhere in between Ouray and Telluride.
> And yes, that's my dumb ass picking up my bike.
> 
> View attachment 3429756


Coming back atcha! Oops! I sent two of the same and I can't delete it.. too late...oh, well.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 29, 2015)

And 1 final shot of me in CO.

I really love CO...it's a special place to me.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 29, 2015)

Silky T said:


> Coming back atcha!


Nice pics!


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Here is a picture...somewhere in between Ouray and Telluride.
> And yes, that's my dumb ass picking up my bike.
> 
> View attachment 3429756


Yep, gorgeous place to visit! That's Telluride! I never even heard of it before Hubert (he's full-on rasta with dreds to the floor!) Dang that's gorgous. Is that the creek that runs by the side of Telluride or is it further up in the mountains?


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> And 1 final shot of me in CO.
> 
> I really love CO...it's a special place to me.
> 
> View attachment 3429765


Really good memories for me too!


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> And 1 final shot of me in CO.
> 
> I really love CO...it's a special place to me.
> 
> View attachment 3429765


That's a nice angle. It looks kinda like the area where the 40 acres is because it's up in the mountains but about 10 miles from the city. It's a very safe place to raise kids too. He's got a boy 16 and a girl 5 and they love it.


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Here was a cool spot we stumbled upon riding.
> View attachment 3429759


Look how clean that water is. Probably comes off the Colorado River like the way it runs through the Grand Canyon.


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

I just had to send this one of Grand Canyon and we are waaay off track. But since we are in YOUR GROW JOURNAL, we can slide this time!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 29, 2015)

Silky T said:


> I just had to send this one of Grand Canyon and we are waaay off track. But since we are in YOUR GROW JOURNAL, we can slide this time!


That's a nice pic. Never been. Looks a little scary from where you were standing!


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> That's a nice pic. Never been. Looks a little scary from where you were standing!





Hot Diggity Sog said:


> That's a nice pic. Never been. Looks a little scary from where you were standing!


This was a great trip too. In 2006 we traveled the US- all the southern states from Virginia to California. Just driving. It was a great summer. I'm glad I have these memories and we were able to do a lot of cool stuff before he had his stroke. We lived in Costa Rica for a year. Went to Hawaii to see a friend and while we were there, they called that famous surf contest called Pipeline in Oahu so we hiked from one side of Oahu to the other to watch and be a part of the contest. Every sponsor you can think of was there and every news station, CNN, you name it. It was big and a great trip. Went to Guam the same year. Actually it's prettier than Hawaii. We visited Nicaragua while living in Costa Rica. Your visa runs out after 90 days and you have to leave the country for 48 hours then come back. So every 90 days we'd go chill in Managua and the beaches there are white sands, whereas Costa Rica is black because of the volcanos. Went to Southeast Asia in 2009. I'd rather go camping. He'll never be able to drive again. Stroke was too severe. He doesn't even know me after 14 years and that's tough. He taught me to grow weed.  We never grew indoors tho, that's why I have sooooo many questions. Sorry, I mean I'm sorry for going down memory lane. It just came out of nowhere. Gotta get the girls to bed anyway. I'm gonna check and see if I see any white hairs. I should have some after 5 days, shouldn't I?


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

Silky T said:


> This was a great trip too. In 2006 we traveled the US- all the southern states from Virginia to California. Just driving. It was a great summer. I'm glad I have these memories and we were able to do a lot of cool stuff before he had his stroke. We lived in Costa Rica for a year. Went to Hawaii to see a friend and while we were there, they called that famous surf contest called Pipeline in Oahu so we hiked from one side of Oahu to the other to watch and be a part of the contest. Every sponsor you can think of was there and every news station, CNN, you name it. It was big and a great trip. Went to Guam the same year. Actually it's prettier than Hawaii. We visited Nicaragua while living in Costa Rica. Your visa runs out after 90 days and you have to leave the country for 48 hours then come back. So every 90 days we'd go chill in Managua and the beaches there are white sands, whereas Costa Rica is black because of the volcanos. Went to Southeast Asia in 2009. I'd rather go camping. He'll never be able to drive again. Stroke was too severe. He doesn't even know me after 14 years and that's tough. He taught me to grow weed.  We never grew indoors tho, that's why I have sooooo many questions. Sorry, I mean I'm sorry for going down memory lane. It just came out of nowhere. Gotta get the girls to bed anyway. I'm gonna check and see if I see any white hairs. I should have some after 5 days, shouldn't I?


Of all the places I've been, I like New Mexico the best. It's got everything! (Except the ocean, hence that's why I'm in the south. Can't beat the weather.


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## Silky T (May 29, 2015)

What is the purpose of having the lights OFF and I mean, complete dark for the plants on their OFF cycle. Even outdoor plants grow just fine and they get ambient light. But there's such a hard and fast rule about the dark. Why?


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## Mohican (May 30, 2015)

Growth hormone cycles can be detrimentally affected.


----------



## Silky T (May 30, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Growth hormone cycles can be detrimentally affected.


Ahhh that's why I've been getting up so early and sleeping so good. Inside info. Hit me up in PM if interested.


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## Mohican (May 30, 2015)

Suzanne Somers plan?


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## DirtyNerd (May 30, 2015)

this is what happens when i am high and nothing to do


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## sky rocket (May 31, 2015)

Hot diggity did you pop your blue dream beans because I popped my 20 blue dream beans in a cup of water along with my Dna sour kush.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 31, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> Hot diggity did you pop your blue dream beans because I popped my 20 blue dream beans in a cup of water along with my Dna sour kush.


Not yet. I'm probably going to get this next round ready to germinate on Wednesday. All of the hanging buds should be down and jarred by then so I can break the tent down. I'm also waiting for a few final octagon related parts to be delivered. I can't actually pre-assemble this as it won't fit through the door so final assembly needs to be in the room. Can't do that til the room is emptied. So...sometime next week for sure.

Probably going to do this run with:
40 Blue Dream
20 C99
20 Sour Blueberry
20 Blueberry Headband

Toying with the idea of this though:
20 Blue Dream
20 C99
20 Sour Blueberry
20 Blueberry Headband
20 Misc freebies


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## Sativied (May 31, 2015)

I'd go with option 1, simply because the misc freebies will add more variables and possibly some unstable plants or worse.

Did you make any pics of the root mass in the tubs?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 31, 2015)

Sativied said:


> I'd go with option 1, simply because the misc freebies will add more variables and possibly some unstable plants or worse.
> 
> Did you make any pics of the root mass in the tubs?


OK...option 1 it is then. I did not but they are pulled out of the room and are just sitting there so I certainly can. I'll see if I can shovel a chunk out tonight and take some shots of it.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 31, 2015)

Looks like I'm going to have to buy a chiller too. My vegetable prototype is going very well but water temps have surpassed 70. I was hoping my basement would stay cool enough but I don't think it will. The expenses never end...haha


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## Mohican (May 31, 2015)

Let me know if you need any seeds. I need testers that can grow quickly.




Cheers,
Mo


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 31, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Let me know if you need any seeds. I need testers that can grow quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a lot of seeds!


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## Mohican (May 31, 2015)

Are you buying all of those seeds?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 31, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Are you buying all of those seeds?


Yeah...last batch arrived yesterday.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 31, 2015)

So I am utterly shocked at what I saw when I took a shovel and dug out a big chunk of one of the tubs. These tubs had 50 liters of perlite on the bottom and then 1.5 blocks of coco on top of that. A very light coco/perlite mix was sprinkled on top a little later. There is no evidence that the roots ever made it to the perlite. It is as if they hit the bottom of the coco and then simply stopped. I really don't know what to make of this.


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## ifatty (May 31, 2015)

I like to put some of those seeds outdoors


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 31, 2015)

I'll pop another core and try and get a better picture.


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## Yogie Bear (May 31, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Btw, del6666, this experiment goes out to you man. You are my inspiration for this!


That's a lot of strains, I will definitely follow your post.


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## Sativied (Jun 1, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> It is as if they hit the bottom of the coco and then simply stopped. I really don't know what to make of this.


Just thinking out loud, but if the perlite is dry and the coco wet the roots would grow towards the wetter side. It's something I need to keep in mind with small plants in large soil pots too, in that case watering from the bottom (letting the medium suck it up) or at least soaking it thoroughly every watering encourages it to use the entire pot. Water moderately from the top has the opposite effect and tend to turn the top layer in a root mass. From what I read you water plenty with run off, but is that drain at the bottom or on the side like a hempy bottle? Perhaps the coco+roots suck the perlite dry before the coco dries out? Based on the size of the plants and the amount of them I did expect more roots. Just shows again what a great job you did though, keeping them healthy with less roots is even harder.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 1, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Just thinking out loud, but if the perlite is dry and the coco wet the roots would grow towards the wetter side. It's something I need to keep in mind with small plants in large soil pots too, in that case watering from the bottom (letting the medium suck it up) or at least soaking it thoroughly every watering encourages it to use the entire pot. Water moderately from the top has the opposite effect and tend to turn the top layer in a root mass. From what I read you water plenty with run off, but is that drain at the bottom or on the side like a hempy bottle? Perhaps the coco+roots suck the perlite dry before the coco dries out? Based on the size of the plants and the amount of them I did expect more roots. Just shows again what a great job you did though, keeping them healthy with less roots is even harder.


I think your assessment was spot on. The coco in the tubs is still quite moist, even after almost a week of harvesting. The perlite is bone dry.


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## bf80255 (Jun 1, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> So I am utterly shocked at what I saw when I took a shovel and dug out a big chunk of one of the tubs. These tubs had 50 liters of perlite on the bottom and then 1.5 blocks of coco on top of that. A very light coco/perlite mix was sprinkled on top a little later. There is no evidence that the roots ever made it to the perlite. It is as if they hit the bottom of the coco and then simply stopped. I really don't know what to make of this.
> 
> View attachment 3431252 View attachment 3431253 View attachment 3431254



-this would explain a lot like the high ass ppm of the runoff and the buds not filling in fully very interesting stuff man great thread.
any issue with pests?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 1, 2015)

bf80255 said:


> -this would explain a lot like the high ass ppm of the runoff and the buds not filling in fully very interesting stuff man great thread.
> any issue with pests?


No, not really. A few gnats towards the end but that was about it. Yeah, the buds are pretty disappointing. They definitely smell good and are sticky but they are really loose and leafy. Almost embarrassing. Oh well, I guess those are the breaks sometimes. Just gotta keep trying different things.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 1, 2015)

They are all in jars except for the popcorn. I should have final pics and weights within the next day or two and then Chapter 2 will be a wrap.


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## Mohican (Jun 1, 2015)

Are you still running a 600?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 2, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Are you still running a 600?


Yep...running a 600 is the current plan for next round. After watching @DirtyNerd and his recent grow, the 1000 Watters look pretty impressive but for now, I'm sticking with 600.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 2, 2015)

*Chapter 2 Weight update
*
The top colas came in at a total of 428 grams. Their RH is still in the high 60's so it's going to end up being less than that.
The popcorn has not been weighed but just eyeing it, I'm going to guess 2 to 3 ounces tops.

All in all, I am extremely disappointed.


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## DirtyNerd (Jun 2, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 2 Weight update
> *
> The top colas came in at a total of 428 grams. Their RH is still in the high 60's so it's going to end up being less than that.
> The popcorn has not been weighed but just eyeing it, I'm going to guess 2 to 3 ounces tops.
> ...


It was a great run bro you learned a lot over this past grow and it's only going to make the next one even better I hope that buds covers the cost of chapter two not a total win but also not a total lose your a very skilled grower and you make some insane ideas come to life it's a pleaser to watch and learn with you and I thank you for putting in the time to share with us all here can't wait for the next run its going to be epic


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 2, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> It was a great run bro you learned a lot over this past grow and it's only going to make the next one even better I hope that buds covers the cost of chapter two not a total win but also not a total lose your a very skilled grower and you make some insane ideas come to life it's a pleaser to watch and learn with you and I thank you for putting in the time to share with us all here can't wait for the next run its going to be epic


Thanks man...I'm not really that upset. I was hoping to recoup more money than I will but that's ok.
A note to anyone watching: 16 plants per square foot --> I don't suggest trying it.

My pieces came in today so I can do some dry fit assembly and make sure they are going to work. It's kind of hard to build a multi-leveled octagon (or partial octagon) without framing to support everything.


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## DirtyNerd (Jun 2, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Thanks man...I'm not really that upset. I was hoping to recoup more money than I will but that's ok.
> A note to anyone watching: 16 plants per square foot --> I don't suggest trying it.
> 
> My pieces came in today so I can do some dry fit assembly and make sure they are going to work. It's kind of hard to build a multi-leveled octagon (or partial octagon) without framing to support everything.


What did you end up going with the 1" or the 3" did you have any luck finding the parts


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 2, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> What did you end up going with the 1" or the 3" did you have any luck finding the parts


I did...finally found the feet for the 1" spacers and they arrived today. So the plan is to use these PVC spacers and place my tubes in alternating rows. My row spacing is going to end up being approximately 11 1/2 inches and my plant spacing on the tubes is going to be 5 1/2" on center. So still pretty tight but a lot more room than what I have been doing. And really, the big difference here is going to be 11 1/2" vertical spacing.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 2, 2015)

This is what it's going to look like. I'll show how the rows connect once I transfer it into the room and finish assembly.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 2, 2015)

Those pictures are using the 3 inch spacers which makes the row spacing over 15 inches which is just too much. Going to be 4 rows total.


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## bf80255 (Jun 2, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> No, not really. A few gnats towards the end but that was about it. Yeah, the buds are pretty disappointing. They definitely smell good and are sticky but they are really loose and leafy. Almost embarrassing. Oh well, I guess those are the breaks sometimes. Just gotta keep trying different things.


hahaha youve got nothing to be embarrassed about bro this was a fantastic log and I learned a lot! thanks again for seeing this run through to the end.


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## hayrolld (Jun 2, 2015)

QUOTE="Sativied, post: 11640183, member: 539919"]Just thinking out loud, but if the perlite is dry and the coco wet the roots would grow towards the wetter side. It's something I need to keep in mind with small plants in large soil pots too, in that case watering from the bottom (letting the medium suck it up) or at least soaking it thoroughly every watering encourages it to use the entire pot. Water moderately from the top has the opposite effect and tend to turn the top layer in a root mass. From what I read you water plenty with run off, but is that drain at the bottom or on the side like a hempy bottle? Perhaps the coco+roots suck the perlite dry before the coco dries out? Based on the size of the plants and the amount of them I did expect more roots. Just shows again what a great job you did though, keeping them healthy with less roots is even harder.[/QUOTE] 
I think Sativied is right with this. If you grow in airpots the root ball is thick but they stop/die off where they leave the media. Its called air pruning and makes the root ball fill in more than trying to grow long and binding up at the edge of the pot.


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## hayrolld (Jun 3, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Those pictures are using the 3 inch spacers which makes the row spacing over 15 inches which is just too much. Going to be 4 rows total.


Looks like a good design. I think the vertical grow will get you closer to your goals than the flat SOG. If you end up with more total height for the four rows than you want, you could set your bulb up with a light mover.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 3, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update
Day 0 - Official start tonight or tomorrow*

Here is the setup:
 

5 sides of an octagon. 4 Rows.
Each side has 5 plant sites spaced 5.5" on center.Row spacing from plant to plant is 11.5"
Total capacity of 100 plants.

This is a recirculating design where water will flow into the top tube on the left and then exit the lower left tube back into the reservoir.

Diameter of this, measured from the center of plant sites, is 75 inches. I've built a full octagon that was 90 inches and one that was 60. 90 was too big...60 was too small. Hoping this will be just about right. There are a lot of variables at play such as:

How much will the plants lean towards the light which is hung vertically in the middle.
Will the tubing that returns water to the reservoir become obstructed by roots?
What impact, if any, will the roots have on the overall water level in the tubes?
There are many more data points I intend to collect but these are the main reasons I opted against building a full 8 sided octagon. As you can imagine, a full octagon poses many access challenges and I did not want to have to add those challenges for this experiment.

Tonight or tomorrow morning, I will be germinating the following in 1.5" rockwool cubes in 2" net pots:


(40) Humboldt Seed Organization Blue Dream
(20) Humboldt Seed Organization Blueberry Headband
(20) Humboldt Seed Organization Sour Blueberry
(20) Female Seeds C99
All of the seeds are feminized.
It is important that the seedlings have a tap root extending no less than 2 1/2" from the bottom of the net pot. Because of this, the net pots will be semi-buried in perlite. I'm hopeful they will able to be transferred into the octagon within 14 days.

Another update will come once the seeds have germinated, the water intake and return are completed and all of the other misc parts are up and running.


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## sky rocket (Jun 3, 2015)

Looking real good. I put my 20 hso blue dreams in a cup of water last Sunday for 24 hours. After that I use the paper towel method Monday night. I checked them this morning and 19/20 all rooted nicely. I'm sure you should have no problem with the blue dreams. Plus I think I bought them last year too.


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## DirtyNerd (Jun 3, 2015)

That is awesome glad to see the project is finally ready for action you know ill be hear for round 3 can't wait!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 4, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> Looking real good. I put my 20 hso blue dreams in a cup of water last Sunday for 24 hours. After that I use the paper towel method Monday night. I checked them this morning and 19/20 all rooted nicely. I'm sure you should have no problem with the blue dreams. Plus I think I bought them last year too.


You gunna do yours 12/12 from seed again?


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## sky rocket (Jun 4, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> You gunna do yours 12/12 from seed again?


No sir. This time I'm going to pheno hunt and try to find me a keeper.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 13, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*

I'm a little late getting started but the seeds went into rockwool on Thursday. Everything is tested and water tight. I've got the seeds sitting in perlite because I need them to grow their taproot out of the net pot by about 2 inches before I can transfer them. Hopefully it works.

The only other thing worth mentioning is a minor line-up change.


(20) Humboldt Seed Organization Blue Dream
(20) Humboldt Seed Organization Blueberry Headband
(20) Humboldt Seed Organization Sour Blueberry
(20) Female Seeds C99
(20) Barneys Farm Chronic Thunder


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## GroErr (Jun 13, 2015)

Looking awesome Hot Diggity, can't wait to see the outcome with this rig


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## Mohican (Jun 13, 2015)

Blueberry Headband! Yum.

Looks like a Banksy project 

I can't wait to see her full of medicine!


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## HappyMan420 (Jun 13, 2015)

I love my HOS Blue Dream.


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## Mohican (Jun 13, 2015)

I have the Santa Cruz cut of BD and it is my favorite smoke


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## hayrolld (Jun 13, 2015)

Love the lineup - that should be a lot of amazing smells in one place!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 13, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> Love the lineup - that should be a lot of amazing smells in one place!


I hope so. I swapped out the extra 20 Blue Dream for the Chronic Thunder for a couple of reasons. Since I've grown the CT twice now I can use it as a control plus it's somewhat unlikely that I'll grow it again so use up the seeds. This will leave me with 20 seeds of each of the other 4 strains.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 13, 2015)

This is going to be my first ever hydro try and the setup is probably a little bit more advanced than a typical 1st time hydro so if anyone has advice or sees something I'm doing that is wrong please chime in!


----------



## sky rocket (Jun 13, 2015)

Looking good dwc/aero are my favorite but coco is growing on me. What nutes will you be using?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 13, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> Looking good dwc/aero are my favorite but coco is growing on me. What nutes will you be using?


I'll be sticking with the Blue Planet Elite for this.


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## Mohican (Jun 13, 2015)

You might want to paint the pipe or wrap it to keep the light out and to keep the roots cool.

Roots have been known to fill up the pipes and block water flow. You might need some sort of bypass or secondary flow route for the water.

Ask @jigfresh - he had a similar system he was using.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 13, 2015)

Mohican said:


> You might want to paint the pipe or wrap it to keep the light out and to keep the roots cool.
> 
> Roots have been known to fill up the pipes and block water flow. You might need some sort of bypass or secondary flow route for the water.
> 
> Ask @jigfresh - he had a similar system he was using.


I don't see any reason to think that light will be able to get in but temps could be an issue. I did buy a chiller and will definitely be using it if needed. I want to try and keep the rez water around 68F right? Def not into the 70's?

Regarding the roots clogging the drain...this is something I'm concerned about. The return pipe can be easily removed and cleaned or replaced but I'm still concerned.


----------



## Mohican (Jun 13, 2015)

I am still not sure what is the optimum water temp. I know in the summer the soil can get up to the 70s and that is when the plants explode with growth.

I have never measured the soil temp in my garden. I need to track the temps over the summer at different depths and see what nature does.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 13, 2015)

Mohican said:


> I am still not sure what is the optimum water temp. I know in the summer the soil can get up to the 70s and that is when the plants explode with growth.
> 
> I have never measured the soil temp in my garden. I need to track the temps over the summer at different depths and see what nature does.


From the little I know it seems that it's a balancing act. Warmer water can lead to better growth but contains less dissolved oxygen and is more prone to yuckies.
I'm going to do the best job I can at letting zero light in and keep the water as oxygenated as possible.


----------



## Mohican (Jun 13, 2015)

Apparently it is dependant on the plant:

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/archives/parsons/earthkind/ekgarden15.html

Cheers,
Mo


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 13, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Apparently it is dependant on the plant:
> 
> http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/archives/parsons/earthkind/ekgarden15.html
> 
> ...


That's a nice page...bookmarked.
Well...I hope I don't fuck this one up! haha


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## Mohican (Jun 13, 2015)

Found this - specifically talks about cannabis:

"...in a true deep water culture system, (bubblebuckets/totes) where the roots actually are completely submerged in water all day everyday.... 68-70° is best.... no problem if it hits 72°....... same for RDWC or drip systems... but many studies have shown, and i agree, that if you are at 73° or above for any length of time you will begin to see problems. it could be in the form of algae, or brown slimy roots, but you will begin to see bad stuff if your water is too warm.

NFT systems can be a bit warmer as far as water goes...... because the roots are not 100% submerged in most systems. if you just have a thin layer of water running at the roots constantly, it can be up to 75°.

ebb and flow can be room temp water. 80°+. in a "true" ebb-n-flow system, the roots are flooded for a couple minutes, and then the water drains back out and the wet roots are left to air out. for this reason, the water can be warmer..."


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 13, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Found this - specifically talks about cannabis:
> 
> "...in a true deep water culture system, (bubblebuckets/totes) where the roots actually are completely submerged in water all day everyday.... 68-70° is best.... no problem if it hits 72°....... same for RDWC or drip systems... but many studies have shown, and i agree, that if you are at 73° or above for any length of time you will begin to see problems. it could be in the form of algae, or brown slimy roots, but you will begin to see bad stuff if your water is too warm.
> 
> ...


More great info...thanks!
When my girls get going, there will be plenty of air in the PVC tubes but what I don't know yet is once the roots get massive, how much higher will the water level rise due to the roots acting as a dam. I'm probably going to try and error on side of safety for this 1st try and keep temps under 68.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 13, 2015)

Seeing pretty rapid germination and I grabbed one of the net pots at random and saw a little tappy coming out of the bottom...woohoo!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 13, 2015)

The vertical light was not really giving them much light so I put them under a normal reflector for now...600 MH of course.


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## Sativied (Jun 14, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> This is going to be my first ever hydro try and the setup is probably a little bit more advanced than a typical 1st time hydro so if anyone has advice/QUOTE]


- Start with 350-400ppm (0.5 scale) for seedlings/small plants, 450-550 during veg, and 450-650 during flower. There's no medium to buffer the nutes so it quickly gets too much on the roots, while too little is hard in tubes. Or run 500ppm/1.0EC from start to finish and you won't have to measure 'if' you:
- refresh (the entire system's contents) frequently, at least once a week the first round, but no shame in doing it faster. If for example after 2-3 days it starts smelling like an aquarium, simply refresh (till you found the issue). If the PPM drops a lot during the week just add more frequently (opposed to dropping all the nutes for one week in the rez like many do with root probs as a result).
- Don't spike nutes, it's not about prevent overfeeding and burning of the plants, it's about growing high quantity and quality healthy plants, for which a balanced nutrient solution is key. Using unnecessary high ppm levels leads to more ph fluctuation, nutrient imbalance and above all unhealthy roots that become susceptible to pythium, hydrogrower's nr 1 enemy: http://www.eurohydro.com/pdf/articles/gb_pythium.pdf
- Mohican already mentioned light leaks and while they may seem unlikely, tripple-check it. Light will enter through the netcups if you don't cover/fill them but not all PVC is actually 100% lightproof, especially white. I think yours is fine. Hang a regular light bulb in an enclosed white elbow and see if it start glowing 
- Temp, keep water between 64-69f. Good info what Mo posted but i.m.e. 69f is the limit.
- Keep pH on 5.6 to 6.2. If you suspect calmag def, or want to prevent it, run 6.2-6.4 for a few days a week. Don't aim to keep pH on one exact level, let it drift a little between those values. Use nitric acid for pH down.

I use 1 layer of hydroton / clay pebbles below the rockwool cube to prevent it from getting soaked 24/7. Since you don't, I'd keep an eye on that.

Your system turned out great, looks very clean and pro with the pipe holders you used for vertical support.

Although from a different nute company, they do have solid info:
http://generalhydroponics.com/site/index.php/resources/faqs/
http://generalhydroponics.com/site/gh/docs/instructions/AF30_inst.pdf (different setup but again relevant solid info).

Last but not least: get those tap roots in the water as soon as you can. Roots that didn't grow submerged will have a hard time adapting to it later, want them to grow up swimming instead of doing a sort of mini-hempy to hydroponics. Ideally you build a larger DWC tote or aero cloner and use that next time.


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## bf80255 (Jun 14, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Seeing pretty rapid germination and I grabbed one of the net pots at random and saw a little tappy coming out of the bottom...woohoo!
> 
> View attachment 3439707 View attachment 3439708


 im excited!!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 14, 2015)

Sativied said:


> - Start with 350-400ppm (0.5 scale) for seedlings/small plants, 450-550 during veg, and 450-650 during flower. There's no medium to buffer the nutes so it quickly gets too much on the roots, while too little is hard in tubes. Or run 500ppm/1.0EC from start to finish and you won't have to measure 'if' you:
> - refresh (the entire system's contents) frequently, at least once a week the first round, but no shame in doing it faster. If for example after 2-3 days it starts smelling like an aquarium, simply refresh (till you found the issue). If the PPM drops a lot during the week just add more frequently (opposed to dropping all the nutes for one week in the rez like many do with root probs as a result).
> - Don't spike nutes, it's not about prevent overfeeding and burning of the plants, it's about growing high quantity and quality healthy plants, for which a balanced nutrient solution is key. Using unnecessary high ppm levels leads to more ph fluctuation, nutrient imbalance and above all unhealthy roots that become susceptible to pythium, hydrogrower's nr 1 enemy: http://www.eurohydro.com/pdf/articles/gb_pythium.pdf
> - Mohican already mentioned light leaks and while they may seem unlikely, tripple-check it. Light will enter through the netcups if you don't cover/fill them but not all PVC is actually 100% lightproof, especially white. I think yours is fine. Hang a regular light bulb in an enclosed white elbow and see if it start glowing
> ...


Great info as usual. Regarding your last point, its not too late for me to switch from perlite to hydroton. I can fill the same type tub with hydroton and water and run air stones in it. Keep the water level like 1/4" below the bottom of the net pots?


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## HappyMan420 (Jun 14, 2015)

sealing up the tubes from light penetration around the netpot holes was a concern i thought of


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## Sativied (Jun 14, 2015)

Just read on the previous page you need to get the tap roots to be about 2" before moving to the tubes. Check out my post here where I depicted how I go about it. That's about 2" (in first taproot photo). Only a small part of that actually become submerged partly because of that layer of hydroton on the bottom of the cup, and indeed the water doesn't come up to touch the netcup. About 1/4" would work yes, it doesn't really matter as much as it may seem inititally. I go for roughly 1/3". No need to get it as close as possible from the plant's perspective anyway, it will have no problem sucking up water through several inches of air once it touched down.

I've done a lot of transplanting out of necessity as well as for giggles and transplanting "to" hydroponics (i.e. from medium to mediumless) while keeping the roots is really hard. Hydro roots (those grown submerged) can be transplanted to any medium but those fuzzy roots you get in for example perlite (or even a bed of hydroton) will have a hard time surviving submerged. The point is basically that you need to let the roots grow into the water rather than grow roots and then put them under water. 

It's like with human babies, if they are born under water they can instinctively swim  I clearly noticed that while the plant is still in germinating mode, rapidly growing that tap root, it adapts much easier and faster than if it has like a 4-inch tap with roots 'branching' out already.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 15, 2015)

I replaced the perlite with hydroton and placed an air stone in it. The net pots are now sitting on top of that and the tap roots can be submerged in water. I'm hoping in just another day or two I can begin moving the seedlings into the main apparatus. All but 2 or 3 seeds are germinated and up.


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## 王子麻 (Jun 15, 2015)

Before harvest, they need 72h dark period?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 15, 2015)

王子麻 said:


> Before harvest, they need 72h dark period?


Some do that. I'm not one of them.


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## 王子麻 (Jun 15, 2015)

Direct harvest, to hang how long?


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## 王子麻 (Jun 15, 2015)

I tried, but the first two are very small, do not know where the problem lies.
Please advise


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 15, 2015)

王子麻 said:


> Direct harvest, to hang how long?


Really depends on your environment...temps and humidity. No easy answer but usually 3 days to 9 days. There is a ton of great information on the Harvesting and Curing thread.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 15, 2015)

王子麻 said:


> I tried, but the first two are very small, do not know where the problem lies.
> Please advise


Not really sure what you are talking about.


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## 王子麻 (Jun 15, 2015)

I mean, I try to change practices, but Coke is very, very small


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## RED DANSON (Jun 15, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 3 Update*
> 
> I'm a little late getting started but the seeds went into rockwool on Thursday. Everything is tested and water tight. I've got the seeds sitting in perlite because I need them to grow their taproot out of the net pot by about 2 inches before I can transfer them. Hopefully it works.


DUDE — this new set up is insane!!! def digging the underground laboratory feel. SO looking forward to seeing all this play out!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 22, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 11
*
98 out of the 100 seeds germinated and are alive.
40 out of the 98 are successfully in the apparatus with the other 58 still being nursed along until their tap roots are long enough to be transferred.

The seedlings that have yet to be transferred originally were sitting on perlite...then they sat on hydroton and now they are sitting in baskets so their roots are completely submerged. I underestimated the importance of this step...things are going quicker now and I'm hopeful that all of them will be ready to move within a week. I'm running the water at 1/4 strength of my week #1 schedule and changing the water every 2 days.

In the apparatus, I'm running the nutes at 50% strength of Week #1 which comes out to 300 PPM.
The chiller is working great. Water temps fluctuate between 67.5 degrees and 68.5 degrees.
I just did my 3rd water change and plan on changing every 5 to 7 days...will not go beyond 7 days.

Temps in the room are 73 with lights on and 68 with lights off...pretty perfect really.

My reservoir is a 27 gallon tote and I'm oxygenating it in 3 ways.
1) Small amount from when the water returns from the apparatus.
2) A 40 gallon air pump with air stone.
3) A 396 GPH water pump with a venturi adapter so it pulls air in. This is working fantastic as it pulls a ton of air in and provides very aggressive agitation.


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## DirtyNerd (Jun 22, 2015)

Looking awesome bro did you ever think of making a wall to isolate that area with white wall or mylar to bounce all the light ... ? might make temp control easier might not just throwing it out there  apart from that doing awesome


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 22, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Looking awesome bro did you ever think of making a wall to isolate that area with white wall or mylar to bounce all the light ... ? might make temp control easier might not just throwing it out there  apart from that doing awesome


You know I did think about it but ultimately I just decided that since they will consume all of the space, that a reflective material on the outside just wouldnt have much value. It certainly would until they are close to entering the stretch...I guess I just kind of figure its not that important. I'm all ears tho if you or anyone else wants to change my mind...haha.


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## akhiymjames (Jun 22, 2015)

Man bro this is some awesome fuckin shit right here. Truly a great setup would love to just see it in person. You really killed it bro. I'm gonna be so glued to this its not even funny. Keep up the great work man


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## akhiymjames (Jun 22, 2015)

Also don't know how much light your losing by not having a reflective surface around them but I'm sure that would make them grow better with light surrounding every direction but like Nerd said could mess with temps too depending on how inclosed the material used around it but I think it would def help


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 22, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Man bro this is some awesome fuckin shit right here. Truly a great setup would love to just see it in person. You really killed it bro. I'm gonna be so glued to this its not even funny. Keep up the great work man


Thanks homey...I hope it works. I've never done anything like this and there is little margin for error.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 22, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Also don't know how much light your losing by not having a reflective surface around them but I'm sure that would make them grow better with light surrounding every direction but like Nerd said could mess with temps too depending on how inclosed the material used around it but I think it would def help


If you guys think it's worth it then I'll try and figure something out.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 26, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 15*

Things are going pretty well. I'm encountering a few minor root issues that I'll need to show you guys and get some feedback on.
I'm using Dutch Master Gold Zone as my only non-nutrient additive and I'm hopeful it's as good as everyone says.
Finally got my BlueLab Guardian up and running and this thing is pretty cool. Gives me PPM/EC, Temp and PH all in one nice digital read out.
32 seedlings remaining so 66 of them are in the octagon and doing well.

I've ordered some of the really big reflectix and will be putting up reflective material as several of you suggested.
I just switched the rez water which is why the temp is a little colder. Rez temps are being managed perfectly by the chiller. Maintaining 68 degrees.


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## DirtyNerd (Jun 26, 2015)

Looking amazing my brother great job  reflective material will be great even on floor level


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## Mr.Head (Jun 26, 2015)

everything Ive grown is nice and dense since I added it. One of the cheapest ways to improve your grow if you don't have reflective surfaces.

reflectix improved my grow a great deal, and it's cheap and saved me crawling in a small ass closet.


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## RED DANSON (Jun 27, 2015)

lookin' dope diggity. cant wait till that thing is one big wall of green.


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## bf80255 (Jun 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 3 Update
> Day 15*
> 
> Things are going pretty well. I'm encountering a few minor root issues that I'll need to show you guys and get some feedback on.
> ...


 I seriously feel like im touring the star ship Enterprise when I check on your grow hahaha great job so far bro


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 29, 2015)

bf80255 said:


> I seriously feel like im touring the star ship Enterprise when I check on your grow hahaha great job so far bro


Haha...thanks. I havent even taken detailed shots of the other things I've built that was intending on using. Put a lot of time and effort into those.

Will be getting another update in a day or two. Will be replacing my 600W setup with 1000W. The contraption is just a tad too big for a 600 I feel. More info coming soon.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 29, 2015)

Also have a brand new and super simple design that I'll be bringing online within a week. Making room for more lights and more plants in my space. Hope to get everyone's feedback and opinions!


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## hayrolld (Jun 29, 2015)

Looking good man! I think between switching to 1000w and adding reflective walls your plants will pack on weight this time


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jun 29, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> Looking good man! I think between switching to 1000w and adding reflective walls your plants will pack on weight this time


Sure hope so. 1000 watter will be here Wed and the 4 foot wide reflectix comes tomorrow. Fingers crossed.
Got some other possible issues with rooting and what not but I'll address these with pics in a day or two.


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## RED DANSON (Jun 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Also have a brand new and super simple design that I'll be bringing online within a week. Making room for more lights and more plants in my space. Hope to get everyone's feedback and opinions!


hell yeah! i'm planning out my indoor setup for the fall right now, and haven't fully decided how i wanna do it yet/still looking for ideas.


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## sky rocket (Jun 30, 2015)

Just caught up with chapter 3. I also use Dutch masters zone along with there main nutrient line up in my aero/dwc. With your water temps at a constant 67-68 you shouldn't never have to worry about root issues as I use the old school method of frozen water bottles.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 3, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 22*

Just a brief update today. I decided to do a comparison of all 3 chapters at or around this stage.
 

I have the outer permiter mostly wrapped with reflectix.
The 1000 Watt replaced the 600 Watt last night and wow...this thing is a beast. More details coming soon.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 3, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 22 Continued*

I have been having some troubles getting plants to get roots long enough to be able to go into the contraption. I know where I went wrong but we're almost there now.
There are exactly 50 plants in the contraption. 3 plants have not made it and 47 are being nursed. It should just a few more days before most of the 47 will be able to go in.

I also am working on a new really simple design that I'll be running in parallel with this grow. Basically a PVC hempy container that is automatically watered and has an air stone at the bottom. These containers could be the best of both worlds.

The one picture of the root I took is pretty typical. Of the 50 plants in the contraption, the roots are anywhere between 8 and 15 inches long already.
Most of them only have a single tap root but some of them have 2 and even 3 taps coming out.


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## drcrumble (Jul 3, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 3 Update*
> 
> I'm a little late getting started but the seeds went into rockwool on Thursday. Everything is tested and water tight. I've got the seeds sitting in perlite because I need them to grow their taproot out of the net pot by about 2 inches before I can transfer them. Hopefully it works.
> 
> ...


omg this fucking cool!


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## DirtyNerd (Jul 3, 2015)

Looking awesome brother glad to hear your going with the 1000 watt i think it will be better in that space your the master of DIY i love it the 1000 watts will stop the girls from stretching for the light so much as well

One thing that comes to mind when i look at this set up this is me forward thinking and i would recommend adding some string around the the PVC so you can tie the girls back to it once they start flowering i could be wrong and they might be fine but i would think they would be to top heavy and try to lay down or even some hooks on the back reflector something to support the girls later keep up the great work bro


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 3, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Looking awesome brother glad to hear your going with the 1000 watt i think it will be better in that space your the master of DIY i love it the 1000 watts will stop the girls from stretching for the light so much as well
> 
> One thing that comes to mind when i look at this set up this is me forward thinking and i would recommend adding some string around the the PVC so you can tie the girls back to it once they start flowering i could be wrong and they might be fine but i would think they would be to top heavy and try to lay down or even some hooks on the back reflector something to support the girls later keep up the great work bro


_the 1000 watts will stop the girls from stretching for the light so much as well_
I hope so...they definitely look a little stretchy and spindly. The 600 just was not enough horse power.

_i would recommend adding some string around the the PVC so you can tie the girls back to it once they start flowering_
For sure man. Not sure what's gunna happen or be needed yet but the top heavy cola's combined with the lean is going to require something.


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## DirtyNerd (Jul 3, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> _the 1000 watts will stop the girls from stretching for the light so much as well_
> I hope so...they definitely look a little stretchy and spindly. The 600 just was not enough horse power.
> 
> _i would recommend adding some string around the the PVC so you can tie the girls back to it once they start flowering_
> For sure man. Not sure what's gunna happen or be needed yet but the top heavy cola's combined with the lean is going to require something.


Where are the fans... ? once you get the stems to bulk up you might be fine they are always weak at the start anyway


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 3, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Where are the fans... ? once you get the stems to bulk up you might be fine they are always weak at the start anyway


I have one single oscillating fan on them. Ill get a pic. Ive had it relatively low but set it to 2 today which is pretty agressive for the exact reason you said


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 4, 2015)

Hoping you guys can critique this container idea.

 

4" PVC with the bottom glued.
The lower 2 holes at the bottom: The bottom most one is a passive drain. Could be drain to waste or drain back into a rez.
The hole above that feeds an air stone sitting in the bottom.
The drain hole would allow about 2 inches of water to sit on the bottom.
Ultimately this would be watered from the top on a timer.
May or may not have a lid.

The idea of the air stone in the bottom sounds really good in theory. One thing I worry about is pushing 75 to 80 degree air into the container could make it too warm.

Perlite vs Hydroton: I'm inclined to think both would work. With hydroton, I think I could add fresh water every hour which would help combat the temp concern I mentioned above. What about perlite? How often could I water that?

Any and all suggestions, thoughts, concerns are welcome and appreciated.


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## akhiymjames (Jul 4, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Hoping you guys can critique this container idea.
> 
> View attachment 3453483
> 
> ...


That's pretty much the same system I run except I have a pot/container inside of another. Go look at Nerds post of the 4 pot setup he's about to do. That exactly how I run mines. The bottom pot is basically the pot that catches the drain water from the plant being top fed from a reservoir. Then the drain water is recirculated back to the reservoir. Very easy system but you have to have to right type of pots that leaves you enough space in between the pots once you set one inside the other. The drain water can't be stagnant as it causes ph problems and deficiencies. 

I've seen a system like the one your showing and have heard of people putting airstones in the bottom of them but like you said could be a recipe for disaster with too much warm air so I would go the route of the system me and Nerd use as you have an airstone in the reservoir so roots get plenty oxygen when being top fed.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 4, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> That's pretty much the same system I run except I have a pot/container inside of another. Go look at Nerds post of the 4 pot setup he's about to do. That exactly how I run mines. The bottom pot is basically the pot that catches the drain water from the plant being top fed from a reservoir. Then the drain water is recirculated back to the reservoir. Very easy system but you have to have to right type of pots that leaves you enough space in between the pots once you set one inside the other. The drain water can't be stagnant as it causes ph problems and deficiencies.
> 
> I've seen a system like the one your showing and have heard of people putting airstones in the bottom of them but like you said could be a recipe for disaster with too much warm air so I would go the route of the system me and Nerd use as you have an airstone in the reservoir so roots get plenty oxygen when being top fed.


What are you guys using to allow the drainage but prevent the perlite from coming out? My little test clogged my drain line immediately.


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## akhiymjames (Jul 4, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> What are you guys using to allow the drainage but prevent the perlite from coming out? My little test clogged my drain line immediately.


Nerd is using pot sox. It's basically a bag with a small micron screen on the bottom that doesn't allow the perlite to come through. For me the pot that holds the perlite has a zillion 1/8th size holes to allow the pot to drain but not allow the perlite to go through. That's the only thing I could think of to do maybe get some window screen for the bottom the pot but other than that that's what I do


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## Melbs92 (Jul 6, 2015)

Hey @Hot Diggity Sog, I love the look of that new setup man! The NFT pipes look wicked! You could put up like a 2m tall piece of lattice (the checkered wood stuff) behind each straight section to provide anchor points for ties. Just an idea! 

Hey @DirtyNerd i checked out my local hardware and hydro shops today! A 4 pot system is looking to cost me about $130AUD minus the pump. Struggling to find one 600+ LPM 

@akhiymjames did you say you had trouble landing pot sox due to the price? Have you tried www.cheaphydroponics.com? They had 4 packs for like $16ish


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 6, 2015)

Melbs92 said:


> Hey @Hot Diggity Sog, I love the look of that new setup man! The NFT pipes look wicked! You could put up like a 2m tall piece of lattice (the checkered wood stuff) behind each straight section to provide anchor points for ties. Just an idea!
> 
> Hey @DirtyNerd i checked out my local hardware and hydro shops today! A 4 pot system is looking to cost me about $130AUD minus the pump. Struggling to find one 600+ LPM
> 
> @akhiymjames did you say you had trouble landing pot sox due to the price? Have you tried www.cheaphydroponics.com? They had 4 packs for like $16ish


The lattice is a great idea man...thanks!


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## akhiymjames (Jul 6, 2015)

Melbs92 said:


> Hey @Hot Diggity Sog, I love the look of that new setup man! The NFT pipes look wicked! You could put up like a 2m tall piece of lattice (the checkered wood stuff) behind each straight section to provide anchor points for ties. Just an idea!
> 
> Hey @DirtyNerd i checked out my local hardware and hydro shops today! A 4 pot system is looking to cost me about $130AUD minus the pump. Struggling to find one 600+ LPM
> 
> @akhiymjames did you say you had trouble landing pot sox due to the price? Have you tried www.cheaphydroponics.com? They had 4 packs for like $16ish


Where did you them at on there I looked and can't find them?


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## Sativied (Jul 6, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Hoping you guys can critique this container idea.


Just some thoughts based on own experiences. I've done hempy runs and plants as an alternative to nft because it doesn't require the chiller, and also to grow males besides the females in the tubes.

-Vertical (tall narrow instead) containers don't work as well as shorter wide containers. Simply put, the less wide the container, the higher the contents of the reservoir needs to be. Too high and too many of the roots are soaked, too low and... well, perlite alone dries out very fast. Watering with a timer will help of course.
- They would be suitable for SoG size plants so you'd need a lot of them to fill a space (like 36, 6x6). Growing in relatively narrow tubes is doable because we don't use a medium, once you start adding it, you significantly reduce the root space. The plants sort of follow the narrow structure and you risk gettig tall stretchy plants that quickly get root bound.
- 1 air stone per pot per plant is a pita. They can usually be reused but not endlessly (in my case barely 2 runs, tried various stones). I frankly don't think the airstone will have any noticeable effect (on top of using something airy as perlite). As for blowing in warm air, I actually used air stones to help keep my rez cool. I put the air pump itself in my intake of my closet.
- Recirculating soilless ( /hyroculture) is tricky. Can't entirely 'refresh' the root zone if something goes wrong, and by recirculating from a single rez, if one goes bad they all do.

I use a layer of carefully placed hydroton at the bottom of hempy bucket, basically make sure there's not 1 pebble exactly in front of the drain hole. I do unplug them a couple of times during the run though.

So my suggestions would be to get wider PVC, and use a drip system (e.g. a ring, or cap with holes to spread it evenly at the top). instead of periodic watering and the rez+stone at the bottom. Dripping will allow you to keep waste to a minimum so no need to recirculate, and you'll only need a couple of stones for in the rez.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 6, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Just some thoughts based on own experiences. I've done hempy runs and plants as an alternative to nft because it doesn't require the chiller, and also to grow males besides the females in the tubes.
> 
> -Vertical (tall narrow instead) containers don't work as well as shorter wide containers. Simply put, the less wide the container, the higher the contents of the reservoir needs to be. Too high and too many of the roots are soaked, too low and... well, perlite alone dries out very fast. Watering with a timer will help of course.
> - They would be suitable for SoG size plants so you'd need a lot of them to fill a space (like 36, 6x6). Growing in relatively narrow tubes is doable because we don't use a medium, once you start adding it, you significantly reduce the root space. The plants sort of follow the narrow structure and you risk gettig tall stretchy plants that quickly get root bound.
> ...


This all makes sense. Before you posted this I was thinking about the drain to waste versus recirculating and I think I came to the same conclusion. If I size my reservoir such that after 5 to 7 days, all of the water has been used then there simply is no reason to recirculate at all.

Very interesting thoughts on tall narrow vs wide pots. I'll bring on some more examples this week and see what ya think.


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## akhiymjames (Jul 6, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Just some thoughts based on own experiences. I've done hempy runs and plants as an alternative to nft because it doesn't require the chiller, and also to grow males besides the females in the tubes.
> 
> -Vertical (tall narrow instead) containers don't work as well as shorter wide containers. Simply put, the less wide the container, the higher the contents of the reservoir needs to be. Too high and too many of the roots are soaked, too low and... well, perlite alone dries out very fast. Watering with a timer will help of course.
> - They would be suitable for SoG size plants so you'd need a lot of them to fill a space (like 36, 6x6). Growing in relatively narrow tubes is doable because we don't use a medium, once you start adding it, you significantly reduce the root space. The plants sort of follow the narrow structure and you risk gettig tall stretchy plants that quickly get root bound.
> ...


I wonder would blumats work for this idea that you just stated. Since it is a drip system that only goes by the moisture of the medium. I know they work for soil but I wonder would they work for a medium like perlite? If it does they would be perfect for what your trying to do main thing is with the res for blumats it has to elevated high so gravity feeds the line.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 6, 2015)

My biggest thing is I don't want a container that is too wide...I can't have any wasted space so the closest the plants can be next to one another is the maximum pot width I can go.


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## Sativied (Jul 6, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> I know they work for soil but I wonder would they work for a medium like perlite?


The clay, the artificial root that is, needs to soaked and enclosed tightly by a medium that attempts to suck water through the clay. That causes the pressure inside, which on my blumat tensiometer results in a digital reading but the blumat tropf (name is drip in german) uses that same system to pulls open a membrane to allow water through the drip line above it. 

When you remove a cone to refill and move it back (or measure a different pot if using the meter for multiple pots or multiple spots in a large container) you ideally, according to blumat instructions, fill the hole from which the cone was removed with some dirt, add a little water so it become muddy, and then place the cone back. Even though that skews the reading initially and requires a couple of hours waiting, that all to ensure it encloses the clay part properly and operates accurately. 

So it doesn't actually measure moisture but pressure (psi/bar), which for the artificial root is the same in water, air, and perlite ('zero' on the display, meaning fully saturated), meaning it would entirely fail and keep the lines closed.


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## Sativied (Jul 6, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> My biggest thing is I don't want a container that is too wide...I can't have any wasted space so the closest the plants can be next to one another is the maximum pot width I can go.


That's my issue too, with the added variable that I remove males and possibly some females. So I want to start with 36 plants, something similar but without perlite/medium (e.g. a sprayer or two in each container, mini low pressure aero chambers), would keep the roots from plants apart so I can move them around and remove plants without ripping roots apart. All easy enough BUT, once I'm back to like 9-12 plants or so, I don't want to waste the root space of the remaining 25 or so plants. In soil I obviously just pot up. I may at some point just settle for creating a 6x6 system and a separate 3x4 that can be scaled back to 3x3 if needed. 

Anyway, I get the dilemma. So what is the grow space + light you will have available for the individual container grow? My main issue is that I rather not create and connect and maintain 36 or more individual hydro containers. If you have no problem doing that for example for a 4x4 space with a 750watter then my second point is less of an issue. Actually, doh... you're doing 12/12 from seed so you can ignore that part on getting root bound etc.

 
Was looking for another pic but I ended up placing 1 liter bottles, after cutting off the bottom like in the pic, on top of 2 liter bottles.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 6, 2015)

Sativied said:


> That's my issue too, with the added variable that I remove males and possibly some females. So I want to start with 36 plants, something similar but without perlite/medium (e.g. a sprayer or two in each container, mini low pressure aero chambers), would keep the roots from plants apart so I can move them around and remove plants without ripping roots apart. All easy enough BUT, once I'm back to like 9-12 plants or so, I don't want to waste the root space of the remaining 25 or so plants. In soil I obviously just pot up. I may at some point just settle for creating a 6x6 system and a separate 3x4 that can be scaled back to 3x3 if needed.
> 
> Anyway, I get the dilemma. So what is the grow space + light you will have available for the individual container grow? My main issue is that I rather not create and connect and maintain 36 or more individual hydro containers. If you have no problem doing that for example for a 4x4 space with a 750watter then my second point is less of an issue. Actually, doh... you're doing 12/12 from seed so you can ignore that part on getting root bound etc.
> 
> ...


That's some wound up roots! Yeah...in Chapter 1 I took apart some of the containers and they did not really look to be root bound. They actually had fewer roots than I expected....so I kind of think any option will be OK in regard to roots. I do have some interesting containers I'm looking at. I only have the clear ones but they make white and they are cheap.
http://www.thecarystore.com/containers-catalog/packaging-and-containers-plastic-containers-rectangular-ez-stor-containers-1-gallon-ez-store-pails-and-lids/1-gallon-white-ez-stor-plastic-pail-with-plastic-handle-56WEZT

They are approximately 8"x6"x8". I will be arranging whatever pots I use in a circle with a 600 hung vertically. I also just ordered some of these:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=37019&catid=752

Both of these are appealing not only because of their shape but they will stack great so I could put one with the plant into a 2nd one. 1st one has small drain holes, drain into 2nd and drain that into my catch pans. Going back to these single containers will allow me to move them around and also expand and shrink the circle as needed.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 6, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 25*

Things are going OK...I can't say they are going great but they are not going terrible either. I've got a few experimental containers going and will be adding a few more in the coming days. Plan on starting a chapter 4 in parallel in a few weeks.

I increased the nutes and changed the water today. Been averaging water changes at about 5 days.
Many of them look a little droppy and sad. I've been continuing to water from the top manually but I'm going to stop as that might very well be the problem. The roots are nice and healthy looking but there is just a single tap in the water (granted it's long) and just does not seem like its pulling enough water. Maybe it is so I'll stop top watering.

The 1000 watt HPS is providing substantially more light than the 600 (duh). Having never actually seen a 1000 HPS, I'm pretty impressed.


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## akhiymjames (Jul 6, 2015)

How much water are they getting during the cycle could be a lil over watered but they look good. Very green just a lil drop that may be from too much water or like you said being watered from the top. I see those rockeool cubes and they hold moisture so that could be the reason right there too. They really haven't taken off much so when they do I think you will get the more pointing up look. Everything looks great I love how your always experimenting trying to make things better. Look forward to seeing more from you as always


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## Sativied (Jul 6, 2015)

An NFT system like that takes some dialing in and as long as the roots are healthy and they get balanced nutes they should take off very soon. I think you'll be surprised. Tubes/nft is more suitable for rooted clones, so you directly get a bunch of them growing into the water.

That said, the drooping can be from a lack of oxygen in the nutrient solution, similar to overwatering. Once they get a little bigger they will transpire a lot more water. They are now roughly the size/age that I move them from dwc to tubes and then they do droop for a day or two before sort of adapting. I think the system could be improved by creating several entry points for the solution. That's the main advantage of the sprayers in the aeroflo and clones like mine, keeps the flow aerated and the first plant in line gets a similar solution as the last one. I stopped using the sprayers and used just the spaghetti lines to split the supply line to 8 small ones. If I rebuild tubes I do plan to use just a single point of entry for each tube, but those would be much shorter.

Edit: and the long roots is sort of normal in NFT. You don't get a root ball like in DWC. That's why I mentioned in pm I trimmed the tap early, to let it branch out like with topping. Not recommending you do that at this point but it's still an option. And yes, I think you should try without top watering, or less at least (prevent the cube from drying out entirely at most).


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 6, 2015)

I currently have two 4" air stones in my 27 gallon reservoir with a 40 gallon Tetra air pump powering each stone. I also have a 268GPM water pump with a venturi adapter agitating and aerating the water. I can certainly add more if you guys think this is not enough.


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## akhiymjames (Jul 6, 2015)

Like Sativied said they'll look much better me they take off. I think there fine and just have to get used to the setup. Still young plants so I would try to make some changes if the health goes downward. Long as they look good then keep it the same. Also like he said its gonna take a while t get this dialed in so keep doing what your doing and if things get worse make changes


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 6, 2015)

Cool, will do. Thanks so much guys for always looking in and helping out. Your feedback is incredibly valuable and very much appreciated.


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## glockdoc (Jul 6, 2015)

you running aero diggity?!? set up looks good. like akhiym said give them a bit.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 6, 2015)

I just popped 8 blue dream seeds into a cup of water. I'm going to prepare 8 more of these pvc containers.
2 with hydroton and air stone.
2 with hydroton and no air stone
2 with growstone and air stone
2 with growstone and no airstone

Growstone link if you're not familiar: I have some bags arriving this week to try em out...1st time.
http://www.growstone.com/hydroponic-substrate/

I really want to try perlite too but it clogs my drain line so I have to come up with a different idea...maybe I'll pop 2 more blue dreams and do these other buckets I have.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 6, 2015)

glockdoc said:


> you running aero diggity?!? set up looks good. like akhiym said give them a bit.


No, not aero. NFT in the big octagon-ish thing and just fiddling around different ideas for the others. Want to get another batch started in early August so I've got a month to figure out which direction to go with.


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## Melbs92 (Jul 6, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Where did you them at on there I looked and can't find them?


These are the ones I found man. I can't remember where specifically! But it's fun looking through all the other stuff they sell anyway! Haha.. Took me about 5 min! Hope this helps!


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## akhiymjames (Jul 6, 2015)

Naw bro those are bubble bags for making hash pot sox are similar but hold medium in the pot to dispose of once finished. It allows the soilless medium to be drained easily with any medium coming through your lines


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## Melbs92 (Jul 6, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Naw bro those are bubble bags for making hash pot sox are similar but hold medium in the pot to dispose of once finished. It allows the soilless medium to be drained easily with any medium coming through your lines


Damn. Thought I was on to something


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## akhiymjames (Jul 7, 2015)

Melbs92 said:


> Damn. Thought I was on to something


Here they are bro. Can only get them in Australia and UK but I haven't found a supplier that ships them cheap well maybe if I just ordered pot sox it wouldn't be bad but I want 4 of those 50L/15gal pots for my hydro system.


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## hayrolld (Jul 7, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I just popped 8 blue dream seeds into a cup of water. I'm going to prepare 8 more of these pvc containers.
> 2 with hydroton and air stone.
> 2 with hydroton and no air stone
> 2 with growstone and air stone
> ...


 Hey Hot Diggity, I have an idea for this setup. If you Google 'capn style' you can see the hydro setup I was running before. You see more of it on 420mag and icmag than here. Basically, the hydro containers sit on the lid of a tote bin with relatively small pump in the bin that goes to top feed lines. You use pots that drain well (I used airpots) and put an empty net basket in a hole in the lid to let everything drain back down. Its a really simple but effective hydro system, and the multiple reservoirs let you adjust your nute mix for different strains.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 7, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> Hey Hot Diggity, I have an idea for this setup. If you Google 'capn style' you can see the hydro setup I was running before. You see more of it on 420mag and icmag than here. Basically, the hydro containers sit on the lid of a tote bin with relatively small pump in the bin that goes to top feed lines. You use pots that drain well (I used airpots) and put an empty net basket in a hole in the lid to let everything drain back down. Its a really simple but effective hydro system, and the multiple reservoirs let you adjust your nute mix for different strains.


I'll go find it and get reading...thanks!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 7, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> Hey Hot Diggity, I have an idea for this setup. If you Google 'capn style' you can see the hydro setup I was running before. You see more of it on 420mag and icmag than here. Basically, the hydro containers sit on the lid of a tote bin with relatively small pump in the bin that goes to top feed lines. You use pots that drain well (I used airpots) and put an empty net basket in a hole in the lid to let everything drain back down. Its a really simple but effective hydro system, and the multiple reservoirs let you adjust your nute mix for different strains.


Is this the series: http://dudegrows.com/lets-captain-style-baby-part-1/


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## hayrolld (Jul 7, 2015)

That's the right guy, but let me see if I can find you one with more description of the construction. He does scrogs for huge plants, but the same build with more, smaller pots worked great for me.


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## hayrolld (Jul 7, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Is this the series: http://dudegrows.com/lets-captain-style-baby-part-1/


 OK, I found one of his threads on 420mag. http://www.420magazine.com/forums/hydroponic-gardening/193337-thecapn-s-ultimate-flowering-machine.html You may have to log in to see the pictures. Hopefully that link is ok.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 7, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> OK, I found one of his threads on 420mag. http://www.420magazine.com/forums/hydroponic-gardening/193337-thecapn-s-ultimate-flowering-machine.html You may have to log in to see the pictures. Hopefully that link is ok.


Pretty cool indeed!


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## hayrolld (Jul 7, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Pretty cool indeed!


 Glad you like it. It works way better than ebb and flow (for me). I had three totes under each light, so I think with a 600 watt bulb set vertically, you could have four or five totes in a ring around the bulb and get good yields. You might want to set them out in the store to figure out how big a circle you want so they are close enough to the light. The only other thing I would say, is with hydroton,grow stones, and probably the perlite too, you will need to run the pumps more often than in those instructions to keep them from drying out compared to using rockwool.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 7, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> Glad you like it. It works way better than ebb and flow (for me). I had three totes under each light, so I think with a 600 watt bulb set vertically, you could have four or five totes in a ring around the bulb and get good yields. You might want to set them out in the store to figure out how big a circle you want so they are close enough to the light. The only other thing I would say, is with hydroton,grow stones, and probably the perlite too, you will need to run the pumps more often than in those instructions to keep them from drying out compared to using rockwool.


For sure. I figure anywhere between 4 and 24 times a day for the watering. Growstone arrived today and wow...it looks really cool.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 8, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 27*

Many of the rockwool cubes are pretty much bone dry so I will be keeping very close eye on them. The plants look fine so this should tell me if they are drawing enough water up unassisted.
Several of them look to be about ready to take off. First sighting of pistols is expected in about 1 week. Unfortunately, there are still many that simply have not reached the water. I've begun taking some of these and putting them into my experimental containers. The octagon was intended to hold 100 plants. It's probably going to only end up with between 50 and 60. Also, I over-estimated the vertical coverage of the light. I think only 3 rows will be able to be adequately lit and not the 4 rows so, while 2 of the strains have plants in the 4th row, I probably won't be adding any more.

My grow stone arrived yesterday and I really like what I see. It is a little dusty like perlite but does not seem to gum up a container at the bottom at all. It also does not get air borne like perlite and tends to just stay on your hands or whatever it comes in contact with. Probably should be washed prior to use but may not be necessary.

I've got a bunch of supplies coming soon...multiple containers and various things related to automated watering...more on that as they come in.

Out of the 5 strains, Sour Blueberry and Blueberry Headband are definitely doing the best in the octagon. Blue Dream is next followed by C99 with Chronic Thunder doing the worst.


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## akhiymjames (Jul 8, 2015)

Great update bro. Kinda surprised a few of them haven't touched the water yet. You would think by now all of them would be but that could be contributed to the rockwool holding access moisture. They're dry now so your not top feeding anymore right? I don't really see any plants that look horrible. They all look green and healthy. 

I see what you mean tho about the 4th row and not enough light. Maybe if there was some type of reflective material above the light would help reflect it back down on top of them. I think you have enough light but with this basically being in the open you may be losing lots of light to the plants. I think this would be great in a all white room. Maybe surround it with white poly with a zipper added to it to close it up. I'm just throwing stuff out there but they look great bro. I cant wait to see them flower bro gonna be very nice


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 8, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Great update bro. Kinda surprised a few of them haven't touched the water yet. You would think by now all of them would be but that could be contributed to the rockwool holding access moisture. They're dry now so your not top feeding anymore right? I don't really see any plants that look horrible. They all look green and healthy.
> 
> I see what you mean tho about the 4th row and not enough light. Maybe if there was some type of reflective material above the light would help reflect it back down on top of them. I think you have enough light but with this basically being in the open you may be losing lots of light to the plants. I think this would be great in a all white room. Maybe surround it with white poly with a zipper added to it to close it up. I'm just throwing stuff out there but they look great bro. I cant wait to see them flower bro gonna be very nice


Yeah...I'll take some pictures that illustrate why. Basically, if I put a net pot into the tube...even if it has a ton of roots sticking out...if they don't actually touch the water, it's a 50/50 proposition. They might make it, they might not. Had I to start over, they would be in the net pots and surrounded with hydroton and left that way for prolly 2 weeks or until there were a lot of roots and at least 2 inches long.


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## akhiymjames (Jul 8, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Yeah...I'll take some pictures that illustrate why. Basically, if I put a net pot into the tube...even if it has a ton of roots sticking out...if they don't actually touch the water, it's a 50/50 proposition. They might make it, they might not. Had I to start over, they would be in the net pots and surrounded with hydroton and left that way for prolly 2 weeks or until there were a lot of roots and at least 2 inches long.


Yea I see what your saying. I think I saw someone mention it earlier your system would be best for established clones that way you out them in and they're already touching. yea next run for sure with it do it that way with the net pots and establishing roots. Shouldn't have that problem no more. Still looking great tho bro


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## hayrolld (Jul 8, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Yeah...I'll take some pictures that illustrate why. Basically, if I put a net pot into the tube...even if it has a ton of roots sticking out...if they don't actually touch the water, it's a 50/50 proposition. They might make it, they might not. Had I to start over, they would be in the net pots and surrounded with hydroton and left that way for prolly 2 weeks or until there were a lot of roots and at least 2 inches long.


 Well, considering they are rockwool cubes, you could cut the bottom out of the net pots and push the cube closer to the water for the ones that are struggling. As soon as roots hit that flowing water they will get longer fast. The plants look good, I think the whole group will take off soon.


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## Sativied (Jul 8, 2015)

Nice, they are starting to look vigorous indeed. 

The issue of the roots not being able to reach the water yet is sort of inherent to NFT in a tube. The water concentrates in a narrow stream at the bottom. Hence flooded tubes. I used the same adapter pvc end cap piece (end cap with a hole offset from center) Heath used in his system to raise the water level i.e. as a dam. The tubes aren't actually completely flooded, less than half actually. Raising the water level just half an inch already widens it a lot in a pipe. In your case that would require a dam at every level. There's another way to achieve that, rotating an elbow at the end of each row slightly upwards.


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## akhiymjames (Jul 8, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Nice, they are starting to look vigorous indeed.
> 
> The issue of the roots not being able to reach the water yet is sort of inherent to NFT in a tube. The water concentrates in a narrow stream at the bottom. Hence flooded tubes. I used the same adapter pvc end cap piece (end cap with a hole offset from center) Heath used in his system to raise the water level i.e. as a dam. The tubes aren't actually completely flooded, less than half actually. Raising the water level just half an inch already widens it a lot in a pipe. In your case that would require a dam at every level. There's another way to achieve that, rotating an elbow at the end of each row slightly upwards.


Great info right there bro. That's why I love this site cus if you live where cannabis is frowned upon your gonna have a hard time finding someone who you can trust to give you great tips and info. I used to only use this site for info purposes only until couple years ago when I got back to growing. I'm hooked now lol


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 8, 2015)

Yeah...I really understand now about the dams. The water is only about an inch deep in most places...its not perfectly level so some spots its deeper but there is still a considerable gap between the bottom of the pot and water. The dams elevate the water which reduces that gap. I have no dams .


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 8, 2015)

All in all I really have nothing to complain about. I keep checking my journal and I compare how far along these are to my earlier runs and these are further developed than even in the 1st chapter which for the most part ran without a hitch in near ideal conditions.


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## Sativied (Jul 8, 2015)

I had to 'experience' the effect of not having dams in my tubes too before adding them. I didn't actually buy those endcaps for damns, just to easily connect 40mm pvc drain to rez. Even had my tubes slightly tilted to keep it low. All I had to do was rotate the end cap (which fortunately was not glued) cause the hole was offset. My issue was slightly different, I started mine with roots submerged in dwc, then they barely reached the flow in the tubes after transplanting. This thread was from slightly before that, contains a pic of the dam piece too.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/drooping-after-transplant-from-dwc-to-nft.636245/

You're doing great though, it's just the dialing in part a system like that requires. Once you got it full tuned in...
Only reason I don't grow in my tubes is because it's not handy for breeding, but to produce high quality and quantity mj in as little time as possible it's imo the best way to grow. Noticeably fast in veg and I do get the impression that carries on in flowering. 
https://www.rollitup.org/t/flooded-tubes-is-the-best.706564/ didn't even mention the highly efficient nutrient usage there, and the reduced waste at the end, just roots and plants. The roots dry out fast and can then be compacted to a fraction of their size. I don't want to sound lazy but it's nice not having to drag with bags of soil/coco/perlite in and out the house especially with 4-5 runs a year.

Anyway, like we determined earlier, the roots will fill up the bottom of the tubes too which should raise the level a bit, nice and gradually too.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 8, 2015)

Sativied said:


> I had to 'experience' the effect of not having dams in my tubes too before adding them. I didn't actually buy those endcaps for damns, just to easily connect 40mm pvc drain to rez. Even had my tubes slightly tilted to keep it low. All I had to do was rotate the end cap (which fortunately was not glued) cause the hole was offset. My issue was slightly different, I started mine with roots submerged in dwc, then they barely reached the flow in the tubes after transplanting. This thread was from slightly before that, contains a pic of the dam piece too.
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/drooping-after-transplant-from-dwc-to-nft.636245/
> 
> You're doing great though, it's just the dialing in part a system like that requires. Once you got it full tuned in...
> ...


As they start to take off it will be interesting to see how the roots impact the tubes. One of the big motivations was as you said...minimal disposal at the end. As you scale up, disposing of medium becomes a serious issue.


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## akhiymjames (Jul 8, 2015)

Sativied is putting it on us today. You make me feel so bad thatbinhave to get all this soil over and over and over and mixing it up hand watering shit gets very tiring but there's no better taste than soil grown. Plus I just reuse my soil so I don't have to dispose of much except for plant material but this is def a great way to grow tho and I would prolly do more hydro if I didn't like to grow so much variety. Still gonna always do a hydro plant or two to cus the growth is amazing and end products is very close to soil. Keep coming with the info bro and you might turn me into a NFT man lol


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## glockdoc (Jul 9, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Sativied is putting it on us today. You make me feel so bad thatbinhave to get all this soil over and over and over and mixing it up hand watering shit gets very tiring but there's no better taste than soil grown. Plus I just reuse my soil so I don't have to dispose of much except for plant material but this is def a great way to grow tho and I would prolly do more hydro if I didn't like to grow so much variety. Still gonna always do a hydro plant or two to cus the growth is amazing and end products is very close to soil. Keep coming with the info bro and you might turn me into a NFT man lol


i hear ya.
he makes me want to do an aeroponic run.
i think you should next run diggity...same set up just grab a short cycle timer and some fine misting nozzels and you could flip them ladies now and get the results ur aiming for.


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## Sativied (Jul 9, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> You make me feel so bad that I have to get all this soil over and over and over and mixing it up hand watering shit gets very tiring but there's no better taste than soil grown.


The hand watering of more than a handful of pots gets tiring indeed. Makes the blumat tropf so appealing and good chance I'll buy them some day sooner or later. I think cannabis can reach its max genetic potential taste-wise on both soil and hydro and any other difference is a matter of taste  Taste is a phenotype, as in genetic+environment. Hydro or soil is a pretty big difference in the environment so differences are possible, up to missing terpenes. But that works both ways. Some strains work out better on hydro (or whatever environment the breeder selected in).



akhiymjames said:


> S would prolly do more hydro if I didn't like to grow so much variety


That was a major concern for me too, even with 6 plants I wanted to grow 2 or 3 strains to have some variety. First few runs I noticed there was always one plant that could use some more nutes and one that could use less (too dark or burned tips). The solution turned out to be lowering the ppm by topping off more often. So instead of dumping all the nutrients for one week in the rez at the start of the week, I added a bit every two or 3 days to prevent the ppm from dropping too far and to prevent starting out higher than necessary.

Although it takes some time to set up and dial in and get it running smooth, once that's done it's imo the easiest way to grow and despite the high-tech look fits in keeping it simple. It really made me realize plants grow themselves, all you have to do is provide a good environment and cannabis thrives in a good hydro setup. It's a rather boring way to grow eventually. Change rez occasionally (done that twice last run on tubes during entire cycle) and keep ppm and ph 'roughly' within a range. Apart from that it's just a matter of observing the plants. I miss my tubes


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## glockdoc (Jul 9, 2015)

Sativied said:


> The hand watering of more than a handful of pots gets tiring indeed. Makes the blumat tropf so appealing and good chance I'll buy them some day sooner or later. I think cannabis can reach its max genetic potential taste-wise on both soil and hydro and any other difference is a matter of taste  Taste is a phenotype, as in genetic+environment. Hydro or soil is a pretty big difference in the environment so differences are possible, up to missing terpenes. But that works both ways. Some strains work out better on hydro (or whatever environment the breeder selected in).
> 
> That was a major concern for me too, even with 6 plants I wanted to grow 2 or 3 strains to have some variety. First few runs I noticed there was always one plant that could use some more nutes and one that could use less (too dark or burned tips). The solution turned out to be lowering the ppm by topping off more often. So instead of dumping all the nutrients for one week in the rez at the start of the week, I added a bit every two or 3 days to prevent the ppm from dropping too far and to prevent starting out higher than necessary.


i agree with ya on behalf of missing some terpens or not. i grew hawkeye from redeyedgenetics 1 in promix 1 perlite verm hempy , with no variation in taste between them.. its all in the pheno.

and i couldnt agree anymore with how you go about watering and feeding. some techniques should be kept traditional, but when dealing with something that is constantly evolving, shouldnt some techniques evolve too??!?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 10, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 29*

Pretty good progress. Many of the plants that are starting to really do well have developed a really nice thick tap root that extends into the water. I'm gaining more and more confidence with each passing day.

A few closeups and then some group pictures.

*Chronic Thunder
 


Blueberry Headband
 


Blue Dream
 


Sour Blueberry
 


C99
 


Group Shots
 

 

*


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 10, 2015)

I'd like to show you guys a few things that I'm working on. While I certainly have not given up on the NFT tube idea, I'd like to try a few new things and since I have quite a few plants that are still not in the octagon, I figure what the hell...lets use those for these new ideas.

All of the ideas I'm about to share will be in 1 gallon containers. The ones I'm prototyping with are black and circular. I have on order white circular ones and white rectangular ones...both 1 gallon still. Because black will absorb heat, I won't be using these containers but all of the ideas will of course transfer.

*DWC #1:*
This uses a single container. It has 2 intakes at the top...one for air and one for water. The drain is up near the top and would be positioned approximately 1/4" to 1/2" below the bottom of the 2" net pot that would be sitting on top. The last picture compares the 2 air stones I would be considering. a 4" air stone requires a pretty strong air pump and is probably way overkill. I'll be filling the bucket and try both stones and just see how they look. The reservoir would be well oxygenated as well. Note the water line...this is submerged all the way to the bottom so all new water coming in will arrive at the bottom. In theory, this should force the old water through the drain hole. Water pump would be on 24/7 of course.
      

*DWC #2:*
This idea is nearly the same as the above example except that 2 buckets are involved. A few very small holes are drilled in the inner container to let water overflow into the outer container. These holes are positioned just below where the bottom of the net pot would be sitting. The outer container has a drain at the bottom which returns to the reservoir. Everything else about the air stone and water coming in are identical.

Pros/Cons between the 2 DWC ideas:
The main pro for idea #1 is that the drain hole is already elevated which means these containers could possibly sit right on the floor and not have to be elevated.
The main pro for idea #2 is that the temperature of the water in each container should be less affected by heat. With the outer layer of plastic followed by a steady stream of water coming from the run-off, there is somewhat of a shield. This could all be bullshit and wrong...I'm just thinking outloud. Maybe this would make zero difference at all...maybe it would actually be worse as the water would be coming in direct contact with the outer bucket and actually absorb more heat. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

*Idea #3:*
Nothing really special here but want to see what you think. This one is similar to DWC #2 in that 2 buckets would be used. The inner bucket would be filled with about anything. I'm probably going to try the following: Coco/Perlite, Perlite only, Hydroton, Growstone. The container holding the medium just has a few small holes in the bottom that I drilled. Depending on the medium, I might adjust the size of these holes. For the larger stuff like hydroton and growstone, I've done three 1/4" holes. The lid is really what is worth talking about. It might seem ridiculous and maybe it is. I have not been able to find any halo water rings that have 1/4" inlets. These sprayers I have do not give great coverage but 4 of them oriented like this gives the entire container perfect coverage. Of course, this means I have to waste 4 lines to feed it.
    


Any and all thoughts, ideas, criticisms, etc are welcome!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 12, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 31*

Just a quickie this morning. Changed the water and began the Week 1 flowering schedule. A few pistols have been sighted 
Did 25 gallons @50% strength and then added 5 more gallons of plain water to dillute a little. I'm staying pretty aggressive on my feeding but keeping a very close eye.
Many of them are preparing to enter the stretch and look fantastic. Quite a few are behind because of their delayed root issue but I expect them to pick it up soon. I now risk shading issues as their progress is not uniform. Damnit!

I'll be working on my various prototypes this week and will be using the plants that *still* cannot be moved into the octagon for these prototypes. All in all, I think we're around 70 plants that are in the octagon of the 100 projected...not too bad considering I ruled out using an entire row (which is 25 plants).

Picture update in a day or two.


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## hayrolld (Jul 12, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I'd like to show you guys a few things that I'm working on. While I certainly have not given up on the NFT tube idea, I'd like to try a few new things and since I have quite a few plants that are still not in the octagon, I figure what the hell...lets use those for these new ideas.
> 
> All of the ideas I'm about to share will be in 1 gallon containers. The ones I'm prototyping with are black and circular. I have on order white circular ones and white rectangular ones...both 1 gallon still. Because black will absorb heat, I won't be using these containers but all of the ideas will of course transfer.
> 
> ...


 Hey Hot Diggity. Love how you are always trying to improve your hydro system, I know the feeling. I have a couple thoughts/questions. If you are going to put an airstone in every bucket, individual dwc for each might be a lot simpler than trying to recirculate to a central reservoir. It might also help if water temp is an issue - the water pumps can add a lot of heat depending on their size compared to the amount of water in the reservoir. You might need bigger bucket though, roots get huge in dwc. For the third design, you said you could not find drip rings that use 1/4" feed. Is there a reason you have to use that size line?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 12, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> Hey Hot Diggity. Love how you are always trying to improve your hydro system, I know the feeling. I have a couple thoughts/questions. If you are going to put an airstone in every bucket, individual dwc for each might be a lot simpler than trying to recirculate to a central reservoir. It might also help if water temp is an issue - the water pumps can add a lot of heat depending on their size compared to the amount of water in the reservoir. You might need bigger bucket though, roots get huge in dwc. For the third design, you said you could not find drip rings that use 1/4" feed. Is there a reason you have to use that size line?


Can you elaborate on what you mean by individual dwc? Did you basically mean where each bucket is filled but not recirculated...the water would sit isolated in that bucket for a week or so and then be changed?


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## hayrolld (Jul 12, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Can you elaborate on what you mean by individual dwc? Did you basically mean where each bucket is filled but not recirculated...the water would sit isolated in that bucket for a week or so and then be changed?


 Yes, basically. The airstone keeps the water oxygenated and moving around the roots. During flowering you need weekly changes, but less often in veg. You can also just keep an eye on ppm, pH, and water level to judge whether to top off with plain water or add fresh mix. 1 gallon pots might be a challenge though, root balls on dwc can get bigger than that.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 12, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> Yes, basically. The airstone keeps the water oxygenated and moving around the roots. During flowering you need weekly changes, but less often in veg. You can also just keep an eye on ppm, pH, and water level to judge whether to top off with plain water or add fresh mix. 1 gallon pots might be a challenge though, root balls on dwc can get bigger than that.


Being a hydro novice, is this the general approach that folks typically take? To treat each vessel/plant as it's own environment?
If so, I guess what I was thinking is completely different from this.

1) I totally hear what you're saying about 1 gallon possibly being too small. I'm guestimating based on non hydro root volume using a lot of assumptions based on my 1st chapter with the very small containers. With no *veg* time (12/12 from seed), I honestly believe that 1 gallon will be more than enough space. Do I know? Absolutely not!

2) If I were to treat each container as it's own individual DWC, it would be impossible to manage water temps. I guess where I was coming from was to have a single water pump that fed a 1/2" hose and had a bunch of these:
 
I'm visualizing 1/2" tubing coiled up with about 4 of these. I've got a crude prototype using a 300 ish GPM water pump connected to two of these and it works fantastic. While I might need to fiddle with pump size, in principle, this seems like it will work.

By running water from the rez into each container and having a chiller on the rez, I will be able to keep temps where I want them.


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## skunkwreck (Jul 12, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 3 Update
> Day 22 Continued*
> 
> I have been having some troubles getting plants to get roots long enough to be able to go into the contraption. I know where I went wrong but we're almost there now.
> ...


This is some epic shit bro !


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## hayrolld (Jul 12, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Being a hydro novice, is this the general approach that folks typically take? To treat each vessel/plant as it's own environment?
> If so, I guess what I was thinking is completely different from this.
> 
> 1) I totally hear what you're saying about 1 gallon possibly being too small. I'm guestimating based on non hydro root volume using a lot of assumptions based on my 1st chapter with the very small containers. With no *veg* time (12/12 from seed), I honestly believe that 1 gallon will be more than enough space. Do I know? Absolutely not!
> ...


 It is not the general approach for hydro to run every pot separately, but with dwc it is because it is much easier. After seeing pics of those emitters, you are talking about a top feed system. Which works quite well without making the pots into dwc at the same time. Use the growstones/perlite in the buckets, and put the airstone in the main reservoir. You probably want to let the pots drain from near the bottom, so the roots do not drown. They will only have gravity to feed the return line, not pump pressure, because the buckets are not sealed. You mentioned wanting the buckets on the floor before. Depending on the shape of the main reservoir, they can be kept pretty low if height is a concern. But if they are in the same room as your octagon build, you use a vertical bulb, and you are not aiming for trees, you should be fine making a low table right over the reservoir. It takes very little elevation to get nice flow back down, and you can use a res that is more wide than tall to keep the base height down. With the top feed into buckets of media, your plants will get plenty of nutes and oxygen, and you can use the chiller. Also, the 1 gallon buckets should be fine with the short veg you are planning using media instead of dwc.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 13, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> It is not the general approach for hydro to run every pot separately, but with dwc it is because it is much easier. After seeing pics of those emitters, you are talking about a top feed system. Which works quite well without making the pots into dwc at the same time. Use the growstones/perlite in the buckets, and put the airstone in the main reservoir. You probably want to let the pots drain from near the bottom, so the roots do not drown. They will only have gravity to feed the return line, not pump pressure, because the buckets are not sealed. You mentioned wanting the buckets on the floor before. Depending on the shape of the main reservoir, they can be kept pretty low if height is a concern. But if they are in the same room as your octagon build, you use a vertical bulb, and you are not aiming for trees, you should be fine making a low table right over the reservoir. It takes very little elevation to get nice flow back down, and you can use a res that is more wide than tall to keep the base height down. With the top feed into buckets of media, your plants will get plenty of nutes and oxygen, and you can use the chiller. Also, the 1 gallon buckets should be fine with the short veg you are planning using media instead of dwc.


What are your thoughts on this though:
 

Where there are 2 intake lines and out line. One in line is connected to an air stone (probably not this big 4 incher but a smaller one). The 2nd in line you see would be connected to one of the ports on the manifold bringing in a constant supply of fresh water from the rez. Because this line would be at the bottom of the pot, in theory the older water would leave the pot from the drain pipe and return to the rez. This is the DWC idea I'm trying to explain and experiment with.


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## Mohican (Jul 13, 2015)

The bigger the air stone the better!


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## hayrolld (Jul 13, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> What are your thoughts on this though:
> View attachment 3458512
> 
> Where there are 2 intake lines and out line. One in line is connected to an air stone (probably not this big 4 incher but a smaller one). The 2nd in line you see would be connected to one of the ports on the manifold bringing in a constant supply of fresh water from the rez. Because this line would be at the bottom of the pot, in theory the older water would leave the pot from the drain pipe and return to the rez. This is the DWC idea I'm trying to explain and experiment with.


 Your design can work. You will want a return line a lot bigger than the intake to avoid overflows, with some kind of screen cover to keep roots out. The buckets still might need elevation above the reservoir to circulate well. The only problem you will run into is the bucket size. Roots in dwc grow much faster than the plant, and once the one gallon is full of roots, dealing with feeding gets really hard. Having very little space in the res and lots of thirsty roots means water is taken up almost too quickly. Keeping pH in an acceptable range and avoiding nutrient burn/lockouts is tough. On the plus side, it looks like an effective design and if you use large enough buckets your design I bet you will grow big, vigorous plants. Edit: The central reservoir will help avoid the nute/pH problem, but you will probably need a higher amount of water moving through each bucket per hour than one 1/4 line can provide.


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## Sativied (Jul 13, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Being a hydro novice, is this the general approach that folks typically take? To treat each vessel/plant as it's own environment?


It's, in cannabis forums anyway, typically the difference between DWC and RDWC. With DWC you have 1 or more containers with 1 or more plant sites each. I.e. a bucket with 1 plant, or a larger container with like 6x6 or even more. Each container has its own air stone(s), pump can be shared given enough capacity. Once you start interconnecting all the buckets, recirculate, including through one brain/control bucket (to adjust ph and nutes gradually as well as refill and drain), you get RDWC. RDWC is imho the second best way to grow hydro. Slightly less efficient than tubes, I prefer not to use air stones (save money and waste), but pretty much same deal as with the tubes.

Main difference is that RDWC is more suitable for growing trees, i.e. large plants, and tubes are more suitable for SoG (optimally with clones). Ideally, well, what I would do for a mini "pot factory", create a few DWC buckets or a small RDWC setup for moms. Grow moms in the DWC, take cutting from those and put those in an aero or bubble cloner (like a DWC rez with multiple sites), and once rooted run them 12/12 in the tubes (from which you can then harvest every 8-9 weeks, 5-6 times a year).

This might be interesting for inspiration if anything, from the Lucas from Lucas' Formula:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1988600/how-many-pepper-plants
It's from 2010 and RDWC is quite popular and I think there are probably better examples by now even at riu.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 13, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 32*

Girls are really jamming now! I checked 5 random plants and 4 of the 5 had tiny pistols so I'll probably call day 1 of flowering in a day or so.
Many of them took to the octagon slower than others but they are really taking off now too so all in all they will probably just be a little bit behind. Nothing to worrisome.


----------



## hayrolld (Jul 13, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 3 Update
> Day 32*
> 
> Girls are really jamming now! I checked 5 random plants and 4 of the 5 had tiny pistols so I'll probably call day 1 of flowering in a day or so.
> ...


 Looks great Hot Diggity!


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## skunkwreck (Jul 13, 2015)

Hot Diggity is a mad scientist with this $hit !!


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## Sativied (Jul 13, 2015)

Yeah looking really good seeing those rows fill in. Great internode spacing too. 

Would you mind continuing to add the names of the strains with the individual pics? Really like the structure of the first two. Third (headband?) looks almost _too_ branchy although it will probably stretch out a bit I think the others are going to form better colas.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 13, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Yeah looking really good seeing those rows fill in. Great internode spacing too.
> 
> Would you mind continuing to add the names of the strains with the individual pics? Really like the structure of the first two. Third (headband?) looks almost _too_ branchy although it will probably stretch out a bit I think the others are going to form better colas.


Sure will!


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## skunkwreck (Jul 13, 2015)

Last time I saw something like that was in a movie...called a NFT spiral system...it rotated under a 1k bulb...I think the movie is called "leaves of grass " You ought to check it out .


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## Mr.Head (Jul 14, 2015)

Fucking killing it dude. Keep it up.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 14, 2015)

Just a quick cloesup of the strains. I skipped Chronic Thunder.

*Blueberry Headband
 


Blue Dream
 


Sour Blueberry
 


C99
 *


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## hayrolld (Jul 14, 2015)

Those are stacking up nicely Hot Diggity. You can really see improved structure this run. They look like they are setting up to bulk up later. Even without the fourth row it looks like you are headed for good yields!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 14, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> Those are stacking up nicely Hot Diggity. You can really see improved structure this run. They look like they are setting up to bulk up later. Even without the fourth row it looks like you are headed for good yields!


Thanks man...i am pretty pleased so far.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 15, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 34*

Things are still going very well. I diluted down my reservoir a little...I felt some of them were being fed a tad too aggressively. Next water change will be in a few days and I'll drop down some.
I feel like I'm in uncharted territory for a variety of reasons. I'm seeing plant growth like I have never seen. As these girls are entering the stretch, the amount of node growth is like nothing I've ever seen. It could be the breed. It could be the fact I'm running a 1000 watt and not a 600. It could be that the vertical light is why. It could be the hydro. It could be all of them. These things look like they have the potential to not grow straight up and give me a meaty top cola and rather try and bush out on me.

   



I also got my 1st 4 mini-DWC buckets in place. Once I got everything connected I've got a few issues. Some minor leaks near the manifold and water pressure variation. One of the 4 pots cannot drain fast enough too.

Will be replacing the drain lines with 3/8" hose instead of 1/4". Also need to learn about what kind of water pressure regulators I could use. My manifolds have individual screws I can use but I'd rather something I could put right inline that affects all of them. Will be putting some reflectix up for the buckets too. The buckets have an air stone and they are getting a constant flow of fresh water and the run-off returns to the rez. I guess this is RDWC. Whatever you want to call it is fine. I'm going to call them 'The Buckets' The 4 plants I chose were the best of the duds...the ones that never got strong enough and long enough roots to put into the octagon.
 
 

Just a rough prototype to see how they do....
Until next time


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## akhiymjames (Jul 15, 2015)

Looking good glad everything is going well for you. It does look like they will make a nice cola and branch out. I believe it is cus of the vertical light IMHO what I've seen from vertical light runs is the plants love to branch out so it looks like that's what in seeing. Man that's a great setup bro loving it should produce well for you. Look forward to seeing more


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 15, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Looking good glad everything is going well for you. It does look like they will make a nice cola and branch out. I believe it is cus of the vertical light IMHO what I've seen from vertical light runs is the plants love to branch out so it looks like that's what in seeing. Man that's a great setup bro loving it should produce well for you. Look forward to seeing more


Thanks man! I'm learning a lot with the tubes and based on other things I've tried I wanna really give this technique a try. I've got some modification ideas and by the time these are nearing the finish line, I just might have a brand new one ready.


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## hayrolld (Jul 15, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 3 Update
> Day 34*
> 
> Things are still going very well. I diluted down my reservoir a little...I felt some of them were being fed a tad too aggressively. Next water change will be in a few days and I'll drop down some.
> ...


 Looks good Hot Diggity. It is fun how fast plants in grow in active hydro with a big light. Are you planning to trim branches off the backs or sides of the plants? I like that your tubes leave enough space between holes to not need SOG style single colas. The dwc looks like it came together well. I think your testers will perk up quickly. They make ball valves for various diameter lines you could put between the pump and manifold. You probably want to paint your res, or switch to black, and add a lid. All that lovely oxygen/nute rich water can get algae. It will be interesting to see if dwc can catch up to the tubes, but everything is looking healthy and happy.


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## Mohican (Jul 15, 2015)

I love how you keep experimenting with new options! Great work


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## Sativied (Jul 15, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> It could be the hydro. It could be all of them.


I'm sure the 1K watter has a positive influence and there are multiple factors at play, but, it's kind of a classic for people growing in tubes (or similar aeroflo clone like setups), the grow rate and vigor is exceptional. I was warned for that myself but thought people were exaggerating... so I got this the first run:
 
Had to buy a spreader to put under the HPS bulb as I ran out of space.

During transition they still veg and the hydro veg rate carries on. It's during that time of the cycle the plants branch out the most, so I'm not surprised you're seeing more bushy plants. You could perhaps steer them a little by pruning the lowest and smallest branches from the smallest plants. i.e. let the bigger ones spread out and let the smaller plants catch up with their main cola.

I like the mini buckets a lot. I think you're going to get great results with those too.

You seem to be recirculating each bucket individually... so you can replace one of the buckets with a larger one without having to reconnect the RDWC chain... yet still have a recirculating system... I think you may have just solved my problem. I would just need to create a hole in the larger buckets in which the lid+netcup of the smaller fits for easy plant transplant. And plant mobility is achieved by simply moving a bucket around. I could start with 36 mini DWC buckets and replace 4 small ones with 1 larger, and end up with 9, and keep a few males in the mini buckets... Nice. Ideally the buckets would be able to easily snap on a drain system. Like a grid of 2" pvc... By circulating fast enough the mini buckets may not even need an airstone.

Still got 10+ weeks on another soil run so got some time to work it out but that sure sounds good.



Mohican said:


> I love how you keep experimenting with new options! Great work


+1 Really nice to see someone just do it.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 15, 2015)

Sativied said:


> I'm sure the 1K watter has a positive influence and there are multiple factors at play, but, it's kind of a classic for people growing in tubes (or similar aeroflo clone like setups), the grow rate and vigor is exceptional. I was warned for that myself but thought people were exaggerating... so I got this the first run:
> View attachment 3459835 View attachment 3459836
> Had to buy a spreader to put under the HPS bulb as I ran out of space.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot Sat. That means a lot, especially coming from you.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 15, 2015)

Mohican said:


> I love how you keep experimenting with new options! Great work


Thanks!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 16, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 35*
*Flowering Day 2
*
I've decided to call day 1 of flowering yesterday so here we go! I will probably post daily pictures up thru the stretch as I really need to well document the growth pattern.
  

From left to right, here are some individual close-ups.

*Chronic Thunder
 


Blueberry Headband
 


Blue Dream
 


Sour Blueberry
 


C99
 


*


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## Mohican (Jul 16, 2015)

Are they Fems or Regs?


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## akhiymjames (Jul 16, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 3 Update
> Day 35
> Flowering Day 2
> *
> ...


Bro this is really looking amazing. I love how this is really going for you. I swear if I wasn't a soil lover I would have to build a system like this and run straight clones. I would have to have you make it for me cus I could do it but I love the way you've made this system. Of course I would pay you very good for your hard work 

That bare vertical bulb is really got them branching out. I love that I've seen some bare bulb grows and most use some type of trellis or net cus of they way it makes them branch out. I wanna make a bare bulb veg area and I prolly will when I upgrade the whole area. Can't wait to see more they are really gonna make some nice buds on them.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 16, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Are they Fems or Regs?


These are all Fem's


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## DirtyNerd (Jul 16, 2015)

Looking Awesome Diggity i really like the look of the Blueberry Headband i can't wait to get home and start some new seed i wasn't going to but i can't help myself  keep up the good work


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 17, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 36*
*Flowering Day 3*

After carefully weighing my options and comparing the pros and cons to all of these various ways to grow, it is finally settled and I will be doing no more prototyping. It's going to be tubes, more tubes and nothing but tubes. Had @Sativied not provided all of the valuable feedback that he did, I probably would continue down the path of trying different techniques. But the reality is that I've seen enough to know that this is the technique for me and once he confirmed this, the decision was easy. I've gotten rid of everything in the room and am back to the original 5 sided octagon.

These tubes don't really *need* major modifications but my next design is all ready to go. It's going to be modular in that the number of rows and their spacing will be completely customizable. Each row will not be physically connected to another row. Once this run completes, I will have more than enough data to determine optimum spacing between plants, optimum spacing between rows, and how many rows a 1000 watter can handle. Yes, I'm done with 600's...(Probably). Starting with James and then Nerd and now after the short time I've been using one, I'm converted.


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## numberfour (Jul 17, 2015)

Looking great Hot, cant wait to watch this turn into a wall of buds in the next few weeks


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## Alaric (Jul 17, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 3 Update*
> 
> I'm a little late getting started but the seeds went into rockwool on Thursday. Everything is tested and water tight. I've got the seeds sitting in perlite because I need them to grow their taproot out of the net pot by about 2 inches before I can transfer them. Hopefully it works.
> 
> ...


HDS ------major kudos for your effort.

If you're interested, I will offer my perspective of your tube design. Not my first rodeo with tubes.

Again, nice work.

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 17, 2015)

Alaric said:


> HDS ------major kudos for your effort.
> 
> If you're interested, I will offer my perspective of your tube design. Not my first rodeo with tubes.
> 
> ...


Very cool! I'm all ears so anything you'd like to share is welcome!


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## Alaric (Jul 17, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Very cool! I'm all ears so anything you'd like to share is welcome!


Things that can be greatly improved (IMO).

1) Too much light *not* delivered to the plant material. In that half octagon and bare bulb----wasted light.

Think of it this way-----if your tubes and light were rotated 90 degrees so the tubes were on the floor (plants facing up) what would you have. 

2) Static, fixed spacing for tubes and plants----not a lot of flexibility. I decided to suspend my tubes from a 10' box rail and rollers so I could slide the tubes sideway and adjust vertically.

3)Trellis-----in that design of yours, you already have a way to attach between the risers.

4) Unless you like dealing with medium-----get rid of it and run medium less and add plant support to the tubes.

I think you need a little veg time to reach the "sweet spot" (about 1' or 2' tall) for yield production relative to time.
That's just my gut opinion (nothing to support it).

Hope my comments were taken in the spirit intended .

A~~~


----------



## Mohican (Jul 17, 2015)

Great info!

I have seen vertical where they use a reflector to light a half circle.


----------



## Alaric (Jul 17, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Great info!
> 
> I have seen vertical where they use a reflector to light a half circle.


Yes, that's kinda what I was getting at. If your space is limited horizontally but have adequate vertical height (7' or higher ) straingt tubes at different heights, light in reflector turned toward the plants and on a light rail mover. In effect or affect? conventional flat horizontal canopy rotated 90 degrees---very easily done with hanging tubes.

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 19, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 38*
*Flowering Day 5*
*
     *


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## hayrolld (Jul 19, 2015)

And the jungle wall begins! Looking good Hot Diggity! If they get too crowded you could move some to your top row.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 19, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> And the jungle wall begins! Looking good Hot Diggity! If they get too crowded you could move some to your top row.


Ya know...that would be a great idea. Problem is there no moving them anymore. I was able to take one of the smaller ones out a few days ago. It was rough with the roots being tangled bit i was able to get it out. Roots were over 4 feet long and this was one of the smaller ones who entered the octagon later. The larger ones simply cannot be removed. Lifting a net pot out just an inch feels like youre fishing and have a big one hooked...lots of resistence and you can feel the drag.


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## hayrolld (Jul 19, 2015)

It will be all good brother. I thought you might be able to move some since it was not long ago the roots were not reaching down far enough on all of them. I am kind of surprised the chronic thunder is the smallest of the bunch. Is that not a fairly fast flowering strain?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 19, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> It will be all good brother. I thought you might be able to move some since it was not long ago the roots were not reaching down far enough on all of them. I am kind of surprised the chronic thunder is the smallest of the bunch. Is that not a fairly fast flowering strain?


The Chronic Thunders took the longest to actually have roots good enough to enter the octagon (for the most part). As for flowering time, about 60 days for them. All of the runts are about 7 to 10 days behind the rest. I'm reasonably confident they will catch up and just be harvested a little later.


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## hayrolld (Jul 19, 2015)

I am sure they will catch up, I just thought that was a fast flowering strain for some reason. Truthfully, your hands will appreciate it if the harvest is staggered. You are going to have a lot of nug to trim


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## glockdoc (Jul 20, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 3 Update
> Day 38
> Flowering Day 5
> View attachment 3462514 View attachment 3462515 View attachment 3462516 View attachment 3462517 View attachment 3462518 *



havent checked in a week.. they are taking off IMO.
at least compared to my plants....
now imagine aero..true aero.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 20, 2015)

glockdoc said:


> havent checked in a week.. they are taking off IMO.
> at least compared to my plants....
> now imagine aero..true aero.


Yeah, they are definitely taking off. Starting to drink and transpire too. Brought a dehumidifier online on a timer. Runs 15 minutes each hour. Keeping it in the 50's for now.
I don't know anything about aero but I'm kind of at the point where I need to stop prototyping and find my process.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 20, 2015)

I'm super anxious to begin building the next octagon but I have to force myself to wait a little longer. I keep taking light readings with my lux meter and as the plants are growing, they are getting closer and closer to the bulb. Ultimately I'm going to have a dilemma. Do I size the octagon such that they are in the sweet spot in the middle of flowering when their size is mostly realized? Or do I size it with the possibility of running a 1000 HPS at the start and then reduce down to either a 600 HPS or a 1000 MH. Right now, each of the 3 rows is receiving about 50,000 LUX...a lot more than they were receiving as seedlings.

Regardless of that, this next octagon will be a full 8 sides and it will have some slick features to it.


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## Alaric (Jul 20, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Ultimately I'm going to have a dilemma. Do I size the octagon such that they are in the sweet spot in the middle of flowering when their size is mostly realized? .


The girls look super happy for now-----with roughly 50 days left, what then?

If I did the math right (10.764 lux = 1 foot-candle).

50,000 lux = 4645 footcandles (full sunlight = 10,000 foot-candles).

For those reasons you have mentioned-----I hate fixed position tubes/posts.

If you are ever interested in having the flexibility of:

1) Growing large and small plants the same distance from the light.

2) Being able to have easy access to all the plants forming a 360 canopy around the light.

3) mediumless aero / circulation.

4) Trellis for training.

5) easy access to the roots.

I would be glad to help.

Anyway, I assume you're having loads of fun (except for the spend, spend, spend part).

Stay safe and have fun,

A~~~


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## Don Geno (Jul 20, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I'm super anxious to begin building the next octagon but I have to force myself to wait a little longer. I keep taking light readings with my lux meter and as the plants are growing, they are getting closer and closer to the bulb. Ultimately I'm going to have a dilemma. Do I size the octagon such that they are in the sweet spot in the middle of flowering when their size is mostly realized? Or do I size it with the possibility of running a 1000 HPS at the start and then reduce down to either a 600 HPS or a 1000 MH. Right now, each of the 3 rows is receiving about 50,000 LUX...a lot more than they were receiving as seedlings.
> 
> Regardless of that, this next octagon will be a full 8 sides and it will have some slick features to it.


Finish strong my man !! Definently watching this !!


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## DirtyNerd (Jul 21, 2015)

Looking good brother just something i was thinking about is if you are worried about the 1000 watts being to much for the girls could you use flexible elbows and put the bases on wheels if the flexible elbows have lets say 5-10" you can have it close at the start when your running the 600 then stretch it out and put the 1000 watts in... ? do you understand what i am trying to say i can make a diagram if that helps


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 21, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 40*
*Flowering Day 7*

About 1/2 of the late additions have started to take off. The ones that have not yet are starting to get a little shaded and left behind...ugh. All in all though I'm still pleased.

 

*C99* 

*Sour Blueberry*
 


*Blue Dream*



*Blueberry Headband *
 


*Chronic Thunder*


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## hayrolld (Jul 21, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I'm super anxious to begin building the next octagon but I have to force myself to wait a little longer. I keep taking light readings with my lux meter and as the plants are growing, they are getting closer and closer to the bulb. Ultimately I'm going to have a dilemma. Do I size the octagon such that they are in the sweet spot in the middle of flowering when their size is mostly realized? Or do I size it with the possibility of running a 1000 HPS at the start and then reduce down to either a 600 HPS or a 1000 MH. Right now, each of the 3 rows is receiving about 50,000 LUX...a lot more than they were receiving as seedlings.
> 
> Regardless of that, this next octagon will be a full 8 sides and it will have some slick features to it.


 I think you will the plants in the sweet spot during flowering to get the best yields and potency. My plants have always grown well getting less light when they are vegging than during flower.


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## gulfcoastgrower (Jul 21, 2015)

They look good how much you looking to pull ? What size lamp you using?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 21, 2015)

gulfcoastgrower said:


> They look good how much you looking to pull ? What size lamp you using?


No idea on weight...will be interesting to see. I'm using a 1000 watt HPS hung vertically. I raised the light way up before taking pictures today but normally it is positioned right in the center of the partial octagon.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 21, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> I think you will the plants in the sweet spot during flowering to get the best yields and potency. My plants have always grown well getting less light when they are vegging than during flower.


I'm inclined to agree with you which means the next octagon might need to be a tad bit bigger. Too early to say that for sure though. I'm also thinking that the spacing between rows needs to be a little more and the plant spacing could be a tad more as well.


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## bf80255 (Jul 21, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 3 Update
> Day 40
> Flowering Day 7*


----------



## glockdoc (Jul 21, 2015)

@jigfresh can give u some very good insight. if you need it.. maybe next run?!
he ran aero same set up as u in a small closet 1000w vert and did well.

i personally think you will be satisfied.
it will all come to what cut puts out for ya and accommodates to your accommodation.
get a good idea of what to run in a staggered perpetual grow

that and your running multiple strains which can be hard if one or a few are finicky. that would fuck everything up.
your doing well


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## PatchKid (Jul 21, 2015)

Fuckin a!!!! Vertical ????


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## jigfresh (Jul 22, 2015)

Did someone say my name? What up Glocdoc.

Not having read more than the past two pages I can say that I think you spacing things out would be a good idea. Both plants sites and rows, like you mentioned. In my heath inspired setup I ended up using every other plant site to space things out and found I liked it a lot better.

Good luck with everything, and if you have any ideas you'd like a second opinion I'd be glad to offer mine. 

I ran 2 rows in a 2' x 3' closet with a 1000w going up the middle, after that I switched to 450w of LED's. I was pulling from 14-20 oz with 6 plants. I had 10 sites, but started skipping some as I mentioned.



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I'm inclined to agree with you which means the next octagon might need to be a tad bit bigger. Too early to say that for sure though. I'm also thinking that the spacing between rows needs to be a little more and the plant spacing could be a tad more as well.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 22, 2015)

jigfresh said:


> Did someone say my name? What up Glocdoc.
> 
> Not having read more than the past two pages I can say that I think you spacing things out would be a good idea. Both plants sites and rows, like you mentioned. In my heath inspired setup I ended up using every other plant site to space things out and found I liked it a lot better.
> 
> ...


I've read thru much but not all of your journal...it's quite long! 
I'm tentatively thinking of increasing the row spacing from 11.5" to 14" and increase the plant spacing from 5.5" to somewhere around 7 or 8 inches. Need to wait a few more weeks before these decisions can be made.


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## jigfresh (Jul 22, 2015)

Wow, I always find it amazing for anyone to read half my journals. We like to talk a lot. 

I think that spacing sounds about right. I think my rows were spaced 18 inches. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.


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## gulfcoastgrower (Jul 22, 2015)

like your grows jig


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## Alaric (Jul 22, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> increase the plant spacing from 5.5" to somewhere around 7 or 8 inches. Need to wait a few more weeks before these decisions can be made.


I fought plant spacing issues until I went to this method:
 

A~~~


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## jigfresh (Jul 22, 2015)

WTH? You got a journal or something I can check out your setup Alaric?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 22, 2015)

Alaric said:


> I fought plant spacing issues until I went to this method:
> View attachment 3464116
> 
> A~~~


I plan on reaching out and speaking with you more pretty soon man.


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## Alaric (Jul 22, 2015)

jigfresh said:


> WTH? You got a journal or something I can check out your setup Alaric?


Not yet----kinda scattered around. I have plans to get off my lazy arse and create one.

A~~~


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## drgroove (Jul 22, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Not yet----kinda scattered around. I have plans to get off my lazy arse and create one.
> 
> A~~~


+1 !

Amazing


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 23, 2015)

Hey everyone...I'll get a proper update later today but I'm having some troubles and I'm hoping you can help. Let me start with some pictures and then I'll provide as much helpful information as I can.

    

Water Temps: The chiller is working flawlessly. Water temps fluctuate between 67 and 68 degrees. I even took readings of the water as it left the tubes to return to the reservoir (thinking maybe the water warmed during it's trip). This measurement came in at 67.5 degrees.

Root Conditions: Most plants cannot be lifted far enough to get a really good look but I found one of the smaller ones and was able to pull it completely out. Her roots as well as the ones I could see floating in the tubes looked great. Nice and white and the felt great too. No slimy feeling at all.

Variations in Strains: This problem is affecting all 5 strains but the C99's are being affected the least. The other 4 strains have a pretty equal distribution.

Not all plants have this and the ones that do seem to only have a few leaves affected. Most of them are on the bottom 1/2 of the plant but some of them have this on the upper half but none of them have it on the very top most leaves.

EC: Over the lat 6 days, EC was pretty consistent. 6 days ago when I changed the water, it was 1.4. I added fresh water twice due to how much they are drinking. It went from 1.4 down to 1.2 and then down to 1.0.

PH: PH has been fluctuating a lot. The pattern I see is that it is around 6.2 or so when I change the water and it remains pretty consistent there for 3 days. It might rise a small amount for the 1st 2 days...Up to 6.3 or 6.4 but never higher. On the 4th, 5th and 6th day, the PH starts to drop considerably. Typically on day 4 it will be 5.9. Day 5 it will be 5.5. Today was the 1st time I've gone 6 days without changing the water and it was 5.1 this morning.

I changed the water this morning and also flushed an extra 10 gallons of plain water through before mixing up fresh nutrients. PH is at 6.2. EC is 1.2.

Based on this information, can anyone help diagnose this?


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## akhiymjames (Jul 23, 2015)

Seems like they are starting to eat a lot more since they are hitting the flower session. With them eating more the ph will start to drop rapidly which I believe is the indication that they have used up the available nutes thus creating the rapid ph drop. With the ph dropping like that it has caused some lockout. I think because your on top of things is the reason it isn't affecting a lot of plants but you may have to top up nutes during midweek to help keep the ph in range. Def not a hydro guru but I experienced a lot of this with my hydro run so that's what I'm thinking and those were the things I did. Mines had a medium so that may have been affecting mines too but you don't so it has to be when the ph drops below 5.8 and lower and something is getting locked out


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## Mohican (Jul 23, 2015)

Seems like they should make some kind of device that buffers the pH changes in hydro like Dolomite Lime does for soil.

Hydro beat my ass last time so I only clone in hydro now.

My pH would start at 5.7 and go up to 8. It was a constant battle.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 23, 2015)

So I've been thinking about what James said as well as just my own experience...which of course is quite limited.
My tap water (well water) is PH 7.2. Adding nutes drops the PH. So logic says if PH starts rising a little for the first couple of days that might mean they are consuming nutes. But wouldn't the EC drop if that is the case? This week I will change things up a little bit. When I need to add water I won't add plain water. I'll mix up another batch with nutes and ph down as if it was a complete rez change.


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## Mohican (Jul 23, 2015)

Are you using airstones?

Are you using any silica?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 23, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Are you using airstones?
> 
> Are you using any silica?


Airstones yes. Silica No.


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## Sativied (Jul 23, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> PH: PH has been fluctuating a lot. The pattern I see is that it is around 6.2 or so when I change the water and it remains pretty consistent there for 3 days. It might rise a small amount for the 1st 2 days...Up to 6.3 or 6.4 but never higher. On the 4th, 5th and 6th day, the PH starts to drop considerably. Typically on day 4 it will be 5.9. Day 5 it will be 5.5. Today was the 1st time I've gone 6 days without changing the water and it was 5.1 this morning.


That first part sounds good, it's supposed to climb a little. The EC should drop a little. And the water level should drop too. That second part you describe, about the ph dropping, sounds like imbalance from over-fertilizing. The ratio you give is never the exact ratio the plant takes up and the larger the difference, the bigger the issue. For example, it possibly sucks out most of the N and K which leaves a high amount, relatively, of P. pH fluctuations are often a result of an imbalance between cation and anion, between positively charged and negatively charged ions that is. Every time an elements This is also why controlling PH with products like Ph down (P or N acid) and pH up (K) is not very effective once that imbalance is fact - it often only makes it worse (ie. drop or climb faster).

 Too much of one element, i.e. imbalance, messes with the uptake of others, even if there's enough of it in the soup. 

It's highly unlikely that 1.0 EC is not enough in NFT to a point that it causes deficiencies. Cannabis also doesn't start using more nutrients drastically during early flowering compared to the transition/stretch period where it still adds on a lot of mass ( leaves and branches and roots). The symptom in the first pic looks like a deficiency but it's unlikely from a too low EC. The edges on the leaves in the last couple of pics look burned. 

I always burn the tips of some of my plants on my tubes at the end of the stretching period, when they stop vegetating and need less nutes, the EC stops dropping and PH starts dropping. Then I lower EC, and build up, and lower again near the end. 1.0 EC from start the finish should work for pretty much every strain though, given a some balanced soup to start with.

What is the NPK ratio of the nutrients you use? And what type of PH down do you use? (I suggest nitric acid, not phosphor).



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> When I need to add water I won't add plain water. I'll mix up another batch with nutes and ph down as if it was a complete rez change.


That first part is exactly what I would suggest, don't add just water but add water with nutrients. That's doable if you run slightly below that spot where the EC stays stable (which isn't a goal nor ideal by itself). This is why I don't put the nutes for one week in a rez at the start of the week, I add a little every 2 - 4 days. Last run on my tubes I refreshed the rez entirely twice during the entire cycle, the rest I just added water and nutes. So I suggest lowering the EC to a point that you notice it drop a minimal amount every day or two. If the pH drops too fast, just add water (lowering the EC, raising the Ph). By itself some pH fluctuation between 5.8 and 6.2 is good, between 5.6 and 6.5 still as long as the soup is balanced. 

Also, are those pics with the light on, or another light? Can you take some with flash in the dark, tends to show their natural color better.

Is the smaller one with the healthy roots affected too? Does the water still smell fresh at the end?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 23, 2015)

_Also, are those pics with the light on, or another light? Can you take some with flash in the dark, tends to show their natural color better._
These pictures are with the HPS on and then color corrected with the Nikon Capture NX-D software. Sure, I will take pics again to get clearer detail.

_It's highly unlikely that 1.0 EC is not enough in NFT to a point that it causes deficiencies._
OK. And you have said this before. Basically I've been trying to follow what I've done the past 2 grows but not quite as aggressively. I'll continue to tone down to try and stay around 1.0. I just switched to the Week #2 and #3 flowering schedule. In the past I would feel comfortable jumping right to 50% strength in my coco grows. Today I did 25% strength...so 1/2 of what I normally would do.

_What is the NPK ratio of the nutrients you use?_
So...I'm still using Blue Planet Nutrients and there are 7 parts to it. Collectively, I have no idea. If you're interested, here is the feed schedule and their NPK's are in the pictures:
http://blueplanetnutrients.com/index.php/application-guides/3-part-feed-chart

_Does the water still smell fresh at the end?_
It does...at least as fresh as when I mix a fresh batch. The Seaweed portion of the nutrients really stinks. In addition, I like to rub the water between my fingers to see if it feels a little slimey or funky and it does not. I also do this on the sides and bottom of the rez.

I'm going to try what you did and just add more water as needed with nutes and just keep a close eye on things. Because the temps are under control and light leaks *should* be eliminated I feel pretty safe trying this. I'm keeping a very close eye on them and will report back.

Thanks for taking the time


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 23, 2015)

Oh...worth mentioning. I'm going to estimate that they are drinking about 5 gallons a day now so yes, the water level drops by a noticeable amount on a daily basis.
One question on topping off. Since they are eating more of this and less of that, wouldn't topping off replace what they ate but double up on what they haven't thus risking issues? Is that why you chose to not mix your soup entirely up front and to gradually introduce it? Did you get really granular like certain things at first and then other stuff the next few days or was it the same recipe each time...just a little at a time?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 23, 2015)

Here are some new pictures of the problem taken with the HPS turned off.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 23, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 42*
*Flowering Day 9*

Despite the issues we've been discussing, things are still going quite well. We lost 2 of the Chronic Thunders...their exposed roots just did not make it. There is one more at the bottom of the Blue Dream section that is on the chopping block too. A few of the really late additions are kind of strange. They appear to be entering flowering and completely skipped the stretch. These will likely be throw away's. Hopefully just a small handful. This proves that the initial 2 to 3 weeks is of critical importance....will be addressing this for the next round.

This morning I did a little defoliating. Nothing major but just cleared out a few leaves here and there to get more light to the inner canopy. It definitely looks thinned out now. I should have taken pictures before and after. Oh well...here are the pics from just a minute ago.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 23, 2015)

Alright, so how does this logic sound:

I had indicated that the 1st two days of a rez change has been resulting in PH rising a little and EC remaining constant. I think I misinterpreted what this meant. In the past, I've had weird issues with PH down where the PH would drop immediately and then slowly creep back up...as if it's effect diminishes. But after thinking about this some more, a rising PH and a constant EC might mean they are being fed correctly...in that the amount of water being consumed is consistent with the amount of food being eaten. If PH were to rise and EC fell, I would think they are being underfed and if PH rises and EC rises then they are being overfed. Does this logic sound reasonable? In my case, I think I've been feeding at an acceptable level and where I was fucking up was topping off with either plain water or PH'd water only...no nutes. I think the solution might be simple. If I don't want to top off regularly, get a larger rez. If I don't mind topping off frequently, just mix the new incoming water the way I would as if I was changing the rez.


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## Mohican (Jul 23, 2015)

Have you used silca before? It raises pH and gives you stronger plants.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 23, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Have you used silca before? It raises pH and gives you stronger plants.


I havent. Can you suggest a specific product or link? The only thing beyond my nutrients and PH down that I'm using is Dutch Masters Zone. Don't know if I even need it but it does not seem to affect anything and from what I've read is good to have to keep the yuckies away.


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## Mohican (Jul 23, 2015)

Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt is the one that I use.







Cheers,
Mo


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 23, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt is the one that I use.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cool, found it. Anything worth mentioning or just follow the instructions?


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## Sativied (Jul 23, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> One question on topping off. Since they are eating more of this and less of that, wouldn't topping off replace what they ate but double up on what they haven't thus risking issues? Is that why you chose to not mix your soup entirely up front and to gradually introduce it? Did you get really granular like certain things at first and then other stuff the next few days or was it the same recipe each time...just a little at a time?


Good point. In that simple NPK example i used earlier for example, the ratio is skewed by some elements being used up so much that the P in that example is too high but relatively. Topping off with nutes would for example increase the depleted part tenfold while only adding 10% of the P still present. Simply put, everytime you top off with the desired ratio (or the one following nutrient manufacturer) the average of the soup becomes more like the ratio of that initial desires ratio. 

For example, I want to use NPK 4-3-5, I add that to a 40 gallon rez.
4 days later, NPK of soup is 2-3-5, 20 gallon left
I add 20 gallon with 4-3-5, making the average of the soup 3-3-5.

Just an extreme example to show what happens. In reality it can be something like 10 gallon with a double nute dosis resulting in that same 3-3-5, but only if the EC dropped enough to be able to add enough.

The ideal EC is a range and dropping doesn't equal underfeeding. It just means it takes up water at a higher EC than the soup, lowering the EC more than the water. That's not only acceptable (for max yields) but desirable ime and trying to avoid that does not help the plant, just the rez balance, just the number. The EC number is a useful but misleading guideline. For example, if the EC dropped 10% and the water 5 gallon,the plants took up more nutes than when they take up 4 gallon without the EC dropping. In the end what matters is how much nutrients your plants take up in total.

Running at slightly lower EC yet topping off with nutes results in the same, if not more, total nutrient uptake on a weekly basis. You can for example use the same amount of nutrients in ML as you normally do per week, but instead of adding it all at the start of the week save some for a top off on day 3 or 4. The let the ec and water levek drop for 3-4 days and refresh ( or repeat, what I basically ended up doing).

A larger does have its advantages and tends to remain stable longer, but the smalLer the portion used the less influence you have when topping off. So there's a trade off. With a small rez you can refresh more often without wasting a lot or even most of the solution.



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> If I don't mind topping off frequently, just mix the new incoming water the way I would as if I was changing the rez.


Yes, or just slighlty more concentrated to bump the EC back to for example 1.1 so it drops to 1.0 in a few days. If it then drops must faster you can still add some.

I use pretty much the same recipe from start to finish. Started out with 7 bottles too, ended up using mainly just A and B which is like using micro, grow and bloom only. If imbalance is the issue it would be best to use those only when topping off, i.e. the base nutes. 

Going to read a bit more about that nute line but did the problems appear after running with liquid blue added to the mix? I got to say though, using 7 parts does not make things easier and ime using only the base nutes gives the best results.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 23, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Good point. In that simple NPK example i used earlier for example, the ratio is skewed by some elements being used up so much that the P in that example is too high but relatively. Topping off with nutes would for example increase the depleted part tenfold while only adding 10% of the P still present. Simply put, everytime you top off with the desired ratio (or the one following nutrient manufacturer) the average of the soup becomes more like the ratio of that initial desires ratio.
> 
> For example, I want to use NPK 4-3-5, I add that to a 40 gallon rez.
> 4 days later, NPK of soup is 2-3-5, 20 gallon left
> ...


Ya know...I was hoping you would bring your last point up. While I have nothing but good things to say about Blue Planet, I would really love to try and simplify. I'm in the middle of studying this right now to learn as much as I can: https://www.rollitup.org/t/beneficial-additives-in-hydroponics-a-must-read.574371/#post-8168615

Before this chapter started, I had intended on switching to GH FloraNova A&B but because of who now owns them I can't in good conscious use their product. A simple 2 part suggestion would be very welcome!

As far as the topping off topic goes, I am going to implement your approach and see how it goes. 20% of the suggested strength is probably going to get me my 1.0 EC and I will probably need to top off every other day for the next week. I'll add PH'd 20% strength top off and just see what happens. Fortunately I'm able to check on them pretty much all day so I can react when needed.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 23, 2015)

@Mohican
Silica is ordered. Will introduce cautiously when it arrives.


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## Sativied (Jul 23, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> A simple 2 part suggestion would be very welcome!


In that case, House and Garden Aqua Flakes. Just A and B, contains everything the plants need. I went from nearly the complete line to just AB, over several runs ditching additives. I don't expect that to change again, I'm not saying all additives are useless, at least not entirely, but especially the flower additvies can quickly have undesired effects in mediumless hydro. The portion of the EC taken up by for example liquid blue is better spend on the 3 base part. Once you got it dialed in with base nutes you can still try certain additives but blue planet' schedule is not designed for the efficient system you build and tweaking it to your needs with 7 bottles is very hard (since we know only the ec and not the npk of the soup).

I actually went to the hydro store initially to get GHE(urope) tri part but they had a good deal on a H&G starter pack so ended up with that one, I considered floranova too, I know a mapito (rockwool like slabs) grower who gets great results with those too. I got a GHE tri pack later and while I didn't have major problems, 

I'm frankly without logical reason perhaps a little biased when it comes to H&G aquaflakes but several others at RIU use it with great results too and @homebrewer who compared various brands had good things to say about it to so I can still safely recommend it. It's too my knowledge the only one specifically for recirculating hydro. Blue planet seems suitable for hydro but they do mention soil and soilless is best.
@skunkd0c uses something similar, also mostly or soley AB and littile over 1.0ec. He posted some pics of his latest results here: https://www.rollitup.org/t/bud-pics-bud-porn.628338/#post-11771710 (thread is worth the loading time  ) 

Also, the liquid seaweed seems tricky. For all I know it actually contributes to your roots being healthy but I would avoid anything organic and anything that stains the roots for example. I like my soup to be bright as water, but there are plenty of guys getting great results with teas and stuff so.... It's basically a choise betweem running sterile or not.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 23, 2015)

_but I would avoid anything organic and anything that stains the roots for example_
I hear you. Especially early on, I could not really tell if I had root problems or not due to this.

Alright...I'm going to order some House and Garden A&B. Your recommendation is more than enough although I will still check out the links you shared.
What about PH management? I've been using GH PH Down. Should I look for acid alternatives? What are your thoughts on the ZONE product I've been using? If temps are kept under 70 and light is kept out can I do without? And finally Silica...I've read quite a bit over the last few hours and I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of it's purpose, the water solubility issues as well as the PH implications. In theory, it sounds like a worthwhile addon.


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## Sativied (Jul 23, 2015)

_[Sillica] In theory, it sounds like a worthwhile addon._
Agreed. I never had problems 'not' using it though and some of those who noticed an improvement may have just solved the K def they had. I honestly don't know enough about its effect on cannabis and the usefulness for us bud growers. 

_What are your thoughts on the ZONE product I've been using?_
Though one. Ime when using moderate and balanced base nutrients only the nutrient solution stays fresh and the roots healthy and nothing else is needed. I used to flush with a low concentration of bleech every refresh but that was before I got a chiller and before moderate EC. I used cannazym and H&G enzyms for my dwc boxes which are not chilled and get warm. I never did a good comparisson. 

I do like to add a product that helps to keep the solution and the roots healthy, just don't know which one is most effective and luckily never had the need to find out. If zone seems to do the trick I would continue to use it for now.

GH PH down is phosphoric acid. I get better results with nitric acid. More stable ime, and instead of adding P it adds N and makes some of the calcium in your tapwater available in the right form. I prefer to have a bottle of both. I.e. when they clearly had too much N I rather not add nitric acid and use phosporic acid instead.


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## jigfresh (Jul 24, 2015)

Zone is the shiznit. I suggest keep it on board. It's always done me wonders.

And silica is the ticket too. Those two products/ additives are the two things I suggest anyone growing in hydro use.

Just my 2c


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## keeper1981 (Jul 24, 2015)

Wow interesting method I have not seen this before. Will be keeping an eye on it to see your results great stuff very interesting


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## skunkd0c (Jul 24, 2015)

Sativied said:


> In that case, House and Garden Aqua Flakes. Just A and B, contains everything the plants need. I went from nearly the complete line to just AB, over several runs ditching additives. I don't expect that to change again, I'm not saying all additives are useless, at least not entirely, but especially the flower additvies can quickly have undesired effects in mediumless hydro. The portion of the EC taken up by for example liquid blue is better spend on the 3 base part. Once you got it dialed in with base nutes you can still try certain additives but blue planet' schedule is not designed for the efficient system you build and tweaking it to your needs with 7 bottles is very hard (since we know only the ec and not the npk of the soup).
> 
> I actually went to the hydro store initially to get GHE(urope) tri part but they had a good deal on a H&G starter pack so ended up with that one, I considered floranova too, I know a mapito (rockwool like slabs) grower who gets great results with those too. I got a GHE tri pack later and while I didn't have major problems,
> 
> ...


hey mate, i have you and alpha phase and a few others from the msn forum to thank
who have been showing me how plants grow fine on a 1.3 rather than a 2.0+ lol for years now, i have finally got round to letting them run into minor deficiencies to find the sweet spot

i ran the kush x cheese on a+b flower during veg on an ec of no more than 1.0
.8 most of the time, if i had some a+b veg i would of used that too but i ran out
i only normally buy a little bit of the veg and buy the flower in 10 or 20 liter to save money

i started to see some slightly lighter green leaves and a few orange/rust spots on some leaves
i changed the solution at 5 weeks for fresh nutes, i did not mind doing this
i normally go a complete crop with no res changes, but this is because i am topping up with water all the time
and nutes when needed, 1 res change per crop is ok with me,
if i ever see any problems with leaves looking a little odd i will just replace the res, rather than try to diagnose any kind of deficiency
and add separate elements like cal mag or whatever, i just pump it out and start again, this has worked for me
i have never seen any "nute imbalance"

i bought and added some veg a+b and brought the ec to 1.3 the plant was fully green in 3 days
with no more new orange spot leaves, i am happy to run the ec as low as possible now
until i see minor deficiencies as they can be fully corrected in a few days with a res change
in contrast i can burn them in less than 24 hours, with quite a few leaves affected
overall this does not really harm the plant as once the food is brought back down again the new growth is not affected
i am finding the sweet spot between deficiencies and burn

i am happy now to set them at 1.5 and allow it to drift i will add more food when it drops to 1.2

in the past i would of run them as high as 1.2-1.5 during veg and 2.0- 2.5 during flower, there is no advantage to this as far as i can see now
running them on a lower ec saves some food , and less is always more to me when growing weed plants


i would only use a+b foods. i have used 3 part foods before but i do not like the extra cost of them
and the way the foods are used in very uneven amounts,
like you need lots of pink a little bit of brown and the green is basically a bottle of piss,
so you end up with lots of left over brown, no pink and a bottle of green piss
then you work out that you don't need the green at all and feel like a cunt for wasting money on that shit

i have been looking at optimum bloom recently might give that a run
its made by the clonex people. growth technology it is the cheapest "branded" food i can find in the uk
you can get 20L of a+b for £80 or something like that making it like £4 per liter which is cheap
they do not give much info on the bottle so i sent them an email they sent back this



Iron is DTPA chelate

Manganese, zinc and copper are EDTA chelates

No pH stabilizers/buffers


vitalink max is the seconded cheapest branded food here , it seems to keep them green well
and the food is very clean, not like canna which makes the res nasty because of that fluvic acid or whatever is added
the brown food is like iodine lol one drip and it stains its nasty horrible stuff
but i must say overall the canna disolves very well into the solution quickly
i can get accurate readings within 10 minutes of adding food,
with vitalink you need to wait for a good few hours to get accurate readings

i am still waiting vitalink people to email me whether any ph buffers in there food
i doubt it or they would most likely be screaming about how great it is,
also i want to know more details about there chealted elements
they claim that all micros are chealted appart from 3 of them which would mean
8 elements are chealted if you count npk as primary and cal mag as secondary
with vitalink which is higher than most other foods

i would always recommend canna to folk as it works its not too expensive
its easy to get hold of, and you can take quick readings, dissolves very quickly
i ran both the aqua version for recirculating systems, and the regular version of canna
for years, i preferred the regular version mainly because it is less messy than that horrible brown shit but they both work fine in NFT

"plant magic" have a a+b hydro food now
i have never used any of their products they are quite popular here mostly with organic growers
they make a lot of shit for those type of growers too

"SHO GUN Samurai" is the slightly more expensive brand of a+b nutes getting pushed here at hydro shops
never tried it, have no plans to either

peace


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## Mohican (Jul 24, 2015)

When I started adding ProTeKt to both hydro and promix soil I had huge improvements in plant growth and bug resistance.

It also is the magic ingredient in my aero cloner (thanks @BobBitchen ).

Fast growing plants such as dandelions use a ton of silica to allow rapid growth without flopping over. In fact most fast growing weeds are very beneficial in teas and compost because the uptake so many beneficial nutrients and minerals from the soil.

The only thing negative about ProTeKt is the fact that it raises your pH. Add it after you have mixed up all of your water and additives.

I agree about not using any brown additives in your hydro. It promotes root slime. That is what got me.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 24, 2015)

The silica you suggested will be here tomorrow and the House and Garden A&B shipped today. Once these both arrive I will mix up 5 gallons and kind of learn how much I need for 1.0 - 1.2 EC and see how the PH is and what not. Once I experiment a little I'll be ready for the switch from Blue Planet over to these. I feel pretty good about this. Keeping it really simple.
A + B with silica and Zone. Next will be a replacement for my PH down.


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## Sativied (Jul 24, 2015)

Good info @skunkd0c, thanks for writing. I agree down to the canna recommendation (H&G is just a canna clone but ime slighlty better). The socalled cannabis specific nutes tend to be rip offs but only if you buy the entire line, a couple of bottles or jugs of the base nutes are relatively cheap and can last a very long time. I spend about $20 per run and don't get a gram less then when I spend 4 times that amount. Fun at first, being able to mix a soup with so many bottles but after a while AB becomes the obvious choice.

I should probably go back to grasscity some day and thank the guy who led me to lower ppms. Funny discussion, I was doing a pretty good job defending 2.0 EC and higher with haelthy plants to back it up but the dude was right in hindsight. Skeptic as I am it took me 3 runs to lower the EC from 2 to 1-ish, ended up doing a .72 run ( half from tap already) after that just to find the bottom of the range and still got very healthy plants with the usual results, just had to add nutes more often. Hence 0.9-1.3. Convenient, safe, and plenty. Heath, Lucas, and several other hydro guys here came to the same conclusion. Based on system difference and amount of leaves it can vary and slighlty higher may be neccessary. Eg when you remove leaves th plants transpire less (easily observable in soil pots too), thus drink less water. If the nutrient uptake remains similar but the water level drops less fast the EC of the rez will drop faster. I also think that the speed of the water flow plays a role. Up to a point recirculating faster should allow for lower EC while still having plenty of all ions available at a given moment. Similar to how proper ventilation can be better for refreshing the CO2 depleted zone around leaves than adding high amounts of stagnant CO2 in the air. The contents of tapwater plays a role too which is not used up in an amount equal to the nutrient portion of the soup. Lighting affects both water and nutrient uptake as well and all these factors is why a system like NFT requires some dialing in, even if they were all the same AeroFlo system.



skunkd0c said:


> i normally go a complete crop with no res changes, but this is because i am topping up with water all the time
> and nutes when needed, 1 res change per crop is ok with me,
> if i ever see any problems with leaves looking a little odd i will just replace the res, rather than try to diagnose any kind of deficiency
> and add separate elements like cal mag or whatever, i just pump it out and start again, this has worked for me
> i have never seen any "nute imbalance"


Not using bloom boosters or other additives high on one or more elements, but instead base nutes with good ratio, in combination with a not too large rez size that allows you to top off a good amount frequently should indeed avoid ever running into major imbalance. I started out refreshing every week regardless of usage and freshness, then I figured out if I don't dump my rez full with nutes and water, basically run with a smaller rez contents, I top off enough to avoid a complete refresh. I do think a weekly refresh is good practice for the first run or two. Just preventative.

Probably everyone who has grown mediumless noticed the improved nutrient uptake after a refresh. I try to keep that going by topping off with water and nutes frequently. It was the key to running as low as 0.72ec (which was a test and not what I recommend) as with such low ec the imbalance became obvious faster. I.e. When dropped to 0.70 after three days it appearantly still had a similar EC but undoubtedly a completely different composition, a different ratio with some elements more depleted than others. Ideally we'd be able to measure the npk and other elements in the soup and steer the ratio similar to the total amount based on EC. See Hanna photometer, $200 buck per piece and pretty much per element.

That turned out abit longer than planned...


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## Alaric (Jul 24, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Main difference is that RDWC is more suitable for growing trees, i.e. large plants, and tubes are more suitable for SoG (optimally with clones).


What is your definition of trees (large plants) grown with artificial light/s?

If your assumption is tubes with holes for plants-------then I agree. GH even warns about it in their aeroflow doc. I wouldn't
even want to run SOG in plant holes.

If just tubes in general-----then NO----I do not agree. Got that T shirt.

In my opinion----from what I've seen-----you're a great resource for this community.

A~~~

(BTW, Spent the last two days selecting pics for a journal.)


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## Mohican (Jul 24, 2015)

I know a bunch of growers that never go above 600 ppm. I know I didn't have problems until I went that high.

I think that when you are feeding the roots directly you can starve them a little and the roots will grow in response to looking for food. I still don't know whether big roots are a benefit in hydro like they are in soil.


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## Sativied (Jul 24, 2015)

Mohican said:


> The only thing negative about ProTeKt is the fact that it raises your pH. Add it after you have mixed up all of your water and additives.


That's because of the K probably, ph up usually is potassium carbonate / potassium hydroxide, a form of K too.

@Alaric, good point, "tubes with holes" a la GH aeroflo indeed, and yes I realize the open acces you have makes a difference. Surely one can grow large plants in tubes too. I look forward to your journal!


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## skunkd0c (Jul 24, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Good info @skunkd0c, thanks for writing. I agree down to the canna recommendation (H&G is just a canna clone but ime slighlty better). The socalled cannabis specific nutes tend to be rip offs but only if you buy the entire line, a couple of bottles or jugs of the base nutes are relatively cheap and can last a very long time. I spend about $20 per run and don't get a gram less then when I spend 4 times that amount. Fun at first, being able to mix a soup with so many bottles but after a while AB becomes the obvious choice.
> 
> I should probably go back to grasscity some day and thank the guy who led me to lower ppms. Funny discussion, I was doing a pretty good job defending 2.0 EC and higher with haelthy plants to back it up but the dude was right in hindsight. Skeptic as I am it took me 3 runs to lower the EC from 2 to 1-ish, ended up doing a .72 run ( half from tap already) after that just to find the bottom of the range and still got very healthy plants with the usual results, just had to add nutes more often. Hence 0.9-1.3. Convenient, safe, and plenty. Heath, Lucas, and several other hydro guys here came to the same conclusion. Based on system difference and amount of leaves it can vary and slighlty higher may be neccessary. Eg when you remove leaves th plants transpire less (easily observable in soil pots too), thus drink less water. If the nutrient uptake remains similar but the water level drops less fast the EC of the rez will drop faster. I also think that the speed of the water flow plays a role. Up to a point recirculating faster should allow for lower EC while still having plenty of all ions available at a given moment. Similar to how proper ventilation can be better for refreshing the CO2 depleted zone around leaves than adding high amounts of stagnant CO2 in the air. The contents of tapwater plays a role too which is not used up in an amount equal to the nutrient portion of the soup. Lighting affects both water and nutrient uptake as well and all these factors is why a system like NFT requires some dialing in, even if they were all the same AeroFlo system.
> 
> ...


the kush x cheese plant i was growing, was in a 20liter res, it ended up needing 12 liters per day to keep the water level the same
this is over half the total res contents, not a good idea if you only want to check on the plants every few days, but i am here all the time so it does not matter
during the hot months this helps keep the res cool as i am constantly adding cold water

the ph and ec would be fluctuating daily from something like 1.3 to 2.3 when the water level drops 
as i am adding new tap water daily the ph would of most likely been now lower than 6.8 for most of the grow
i always add nutes based on ec readings, but now i think i will not bother adding any food unless the plants seem to be growing slowly
or show any slight deficiencies, i find that the food additions are very irregular, even with this plant that appeard to have a very even growth pattern through all of its growing time
some weeks i will be adding food maybe 2-3 times in the same week as the ec constantly drops points, other weeks i will not feed them at all as the ec never drops

because i have been keeping the ec lower i have been adding phosphoric acid a little more often
i add 4ml or so almost a t-spoon full every other week or when i can remember, i know i could stop doing this, its just habit
at an ec of 1.5 the nutes are acidic enough to bring it below the alkaline threshold, which is enough to keep them healthy 
my starting tap water is 7.4 ph at .2 ec , the recommendation for these systems when they first came out was ec 2.0 ph 6.2 

i used to keep it like that all the time, adding acid all the time to keep the ph constant, i would also change the res every 2 weeks or so
but i found all these things have no benefit
allowing the ph to drift along with lower ec has given me the same results
i personally do not believe the food is that important compared to the other variables
its the hydro that i can most relay on to work, i do not worry about it too much, as long as the pumps keep pumping
i dialed the system in , round about 1997 i have been repeating what works
my main focus is selecting new genetics as this makes the biggest difference overall 
i am not interested in trying a new food unless it saves me money, or a bud enhancer
the tiny amount of difference it could make is not worth the effort imo, and i do not like spraying anything on plants 
i do not think weed plants are big eaters, giving them growth regulators / hormones will cause an affect perhaps, 
but a change in diet i do not believe it will do much for the price on the bottle of bud candy or whatever

for yield and size and such, water is just if not more important, like with soil folk try to provide more drainage
so they can water the plant more often without rotting the roots, making the wet/dry cycle quicker makes plants in soil grow quicker
with hydo the plants can drink huge amounts of water, i think this is overlooked as one of the reasons why hydro tends to grow larger plants in the same time frame 
all of that extra water allows the plant to stay cool in higher temps, which also speeds things up imo 

peace


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## Sativied (Jul 24, 2015)

Your experience, methods and observations sound very similar to mine. My rez is roughly 45liter but I ended up not using it entirely. A benefit of smaller res is also that it'easier to keep the DO level high enough. Even your tapwater ph and ec is pretty much the same as mine.



skunkd0c said:


> my main focus is selecting new genetics as this makes the biggest difference overall


Yes once you experience that those additives don't actually "add" anything and the plants grow exceptional on nft it also becomes appearant that the limit is primarily genetically determined. It's directly why I got into breeding. If you want to feed more to get bigger buds you first need a plant that wants more nutrients and grows larger buds.


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## Alaric (Jul 24, 2015)

@skunkd0c I believe the starting water quality is the most important part of nute soup. I like to strip the water with RO, then build it back up.

@Sativied How about this: When out weakest link in production is the plant's genetic potential to produce---we have arrived. Right now, me thinks it's artificial lighting.

WOW, am I stoned, special brownie hour ago,

A~~~


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## Alaric (Jul 24, 2015)

Mohican said:


> I
> 
> I think that when you are feeding the roots directly you can starve them a little and the roots will grow in response to looking for food. I still don't know whether big roots are a benefit in hydro like they are in soil.


I don't know either------what strength do you "starving" occurs?

My theory (totally non-sciencetific) Larger roots= larger branches = larger stems = larger buds----i've never seen a massive cola on a toothpick stem / branch----but I have seen massive  colas produced from massive roots.


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## DirtyNerd (Jul 24, 2015)

Alaric said:


> I don't know either------what strength do you "starving" occurs?
> 
> My theory (totally non-sciencetific) Larger roots= larger branches = larger stems = larger buds----i've never seen a massive cola on a toothpick stem / branch----but I have seen massive View attachment 3465891 colas produced from massive roots.View attachment 3465892


They are some very nice colas good job if that was your grow


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## Alaric (Jul 24, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> if that was your grow


Ouch! ---------Yes mine.

I checked out your journal-----extremely impressive.

twilight zone moment-----first thing I saw----blue dream----surfing the solar waves now.

A~~~


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## DirtyNerd (Jul 24, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Ouch! ---------Yes mine.
> 
> I checked out your journal-----extremely impressive.
> 
> ...


Have you got a grow log would love to check it out... ? also no disrespect about if it was your grow or not i didn't know if you were just using the photos to prove that big roots = big fruits that's all


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## Alaric (Jul 25, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Have you got a grow log would love to check it out... ? also no disrespect about if it was your grow or not i didn't know if you were just using the photos to prove that big roots = big fruits that's all


^^ It's all good. Trying to put a journal together now.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 25, 2015)

Hey guys...quick question. The ProTekt silica is arriving today. The instructions say to use 0.5 to 1.0 tsp per gallon for recirculating. Does this sound correct or is it like nute manufacturers where they always overstate what you really need? In the event I mix my soup and then top off every other day, should I be including more silica in the topoff too?


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## akhiymjames (Jul 25, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Hey guys...quick question. The ProTekt silica is arriving today. The instructions say to use 0.5 to 1.0 tsp per gallon for recirculating. Does this sound correct or is it like nute manufacturers where they always overstate what you really need? In the event I mix my soup and then top off every other day, should I be including more silica in the topoff too?


I always start of using half of what the manufacture stats as that is usually too strong. Silica will make your ph rise tremendously so take that into account too

It's good stuff this helps protects against heat stress and helps build nice thick stems. I need to get some organic silica for my soil. Don't want to use any synthetics but a lol silica may not hurt my microcredit. I'll have to do some digging around to see what others are experiencing.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 25, 2015)

Quick update:

Before lights out last night, EC was sitting at 1.2 and PH was 6.3. Both had been pretty stable since the rez change (36 hours ago as of last night).
This morning when the lights came on, EC was at 1.2 and PH was down to 5.6. I topped off with 5 gallons which was the perfect amount. I had previously said they were drinking 5 gallons a day....I was wrong...5 gallons every 2 days. I topped off with 20% strength and did not use PH down. EC is now 1.1 and PH is 6.1.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 25, 2015)

Thinking about adding more air pumps and stones for DO and maybe dropping the rez temps just a tad bit. The girls just don't look quite right to me.


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## Alaric (Jul 25, 2015)

^^ air stones added to what? Nute temp now?

Your nute consumption rate is only going to increase as they grow. I'm guilty of looking for leaks before (could hardly believe that much consumption even though my grow room) One of those things people have to experience for themselves (well, I did anyway).

Don't remember if you're running a chiller?

Do you have any "foreign materials" (organic) in your tubes?

Large rez volumes = less swing and more nute stability.

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 25, 2015)

Alaric said:


> ^^ air stones added to what? Nute temp now?
> 
> Your nute consumption rate is only going to increase as they grow. I'm guilty of looking for leaks before (could hardly believe that much consumption even though my grow room) One of those things people have to experience for themselves (well, I did anyway).
> 
> ...


I need to get some more pictures to you guys. The 1st sign that something was not quite right was about 2 weeks ago. Some of the leaves were curling under. This happened before any spots on leaves were seen. The curl under is still happening. I does not seem to be getting worse, just remaining consistent.

The nute temp is very consistent...67 to 68 degrees. Yes, the rez temps are managed by a chiller.
There should not be any foreign materials of any kind in the tubes. They were clean to start with.

I'll upload some pictures for you guys to look it. The rez is being oxygenated like so:
There are 4 of these 4 inch air stones.
 

2 of them are running on their own 40 gallon pump:
 
The other 2 stones are being powered from a single Tetra 60 gallon air pump.

And finally, I have a 396 Gallon per minute water pump fitted with a Venturi. This does a great job agitating the rez as well as bringing in fresh O2. I figured this would be way overkill but now I'm not sure. 

My rez is 27 gallons.


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## Sativied (Jul 25, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> The nute temp is very consistent...67 to 68 degrees.


By itself very acceptable temps but I do run a little lower with chiller. Specifically 65, but it climbs up to 69 before the chiller kicks in. Point is if you want to drop it one or two degrees you can. Colder solution does allow for slightly increased DO.

The air stones are already sort of extra. The flow is constantly aerated along the path too plus you got the venturi. If the air stones, or lack of, would be the problem, then theoretically the plants at the end of the line should be more affected than at the start. With multiple strains that can be misleading though, the one at the end could be the one that deals best with it.

I noticed some of that curling I think you are referring to, I got that a little sometimes before they take off, once they are able to transpire enough and fast enough it always disappeared. 

Also, you mentioned you couldn't lift the pots from most plants to check the roots. While that is obviously inconvenient now it's by itself a good sign. If the roots gone bad and you lift a pot it won't resists as much (and break off its roots so be careful). Just something I considered doing myself before I figured I can take pics of my roots through the holes of my sprayers, melt a peeping hole in a tube near on of the worst plants, so you can check the roots. 

They are probably done creating most of the root mass by now, is it possible the shallowness of the flow is causing issues now? Can you see if it raised slightly because of the roots?


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## DirtyNerd (Jul 25, 2015)

Hey bro also remember that Silica needs to be added before anything else or its a waste if your mix is already done just mix it in a bottle and
dilute it i noticed a bit change when i started mixing my nutrients right hope this helps the guy talks to much but there is some great info in there


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 25, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Hey bro also remember that Silica needs to be added before anything else or its a waste if your mix is already done just mix it in a bottle and
> dilute it i noticed a bit change when i started mixing my nutrients right hope this helps the guy talks to much but there is some great info in there


Thanks for the heads up. I decided I'm going to hold off introducing this until I can wrap my head around what the problem is (if it is in fact a problem). But noted and thank you!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 25, 2015)

Sativied said:


> By itself very acceptable temps but I do run a little lower with chiller. Specifically 65, but it climbs up to 69 before the chiller kicks in. Point is if you want to drop it one or two degrees you can. Colder solution does allow for slightly increased DO.
> 
> The air stones are already sort of extra. The flow is constantly aerated along the path too plus you got the venturi. If the air stones, or lack of, would be the problem, then theoretically the plants at the end of the line should be more affected than at the start. With multiple strains that can be misleading though, the one at the end could be the one that deals best with it.
> 
> ...


I'm going to be making some alterations during this run...something I was hoping to avoid.
I'm not very satisfied with the rate of water flow. If I pull a net pot up high enough to see the water, it looks almost stagnant.

I swapped out my 396 gpm feed pump with one almost twice its size and saw no improvement in the rate. When I first set this stuff up I made a bone-headed decision. The water pump pumps from the rez, thru the chiller and then into the tubes. The chiller might be limiting the flow. I'm going to redesign this aspect 1st so a pump moves water from the rez, thru the chiller and back into the rez. Have a separate pump that moves water from the rez to the tubes. I'll try both pump sizes and see if flow is affected. If it is not, then it's gotta be the 1/2" hose that is the limiting factor...too small. In this case, I will have to drill another and equip it with another fitting and run 2 feed pumps to the tubes. Running 2 feeds is part of my new design anyway so this will be a good proof of concept. Better flow and even more importantly, if a pump dies I'm not fucked.


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## Sativied (Jul 25, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I
> The chiller might be limiting the flow. I'm going to redesign this aspect 1st so a pump moves water from the rez, thru the chiller and back into the rez. Have a separate pump that moves water from the rez to the tubes.


That's how I run as well, 2 aqua pumps, one for tubes, smaller one for chiller. Downside in my case is that the pump for the chiller also warms up the water (even if it would normally not get too warm) so the chiller runs more often than when using the same pump for tubes and chiller. The upside is that you get two waterfalls for increase DO.

A major factor in aquapump's flow rate is usually above all the.. ummmm, I don't know the english word lol.... the 'up-pump-height'. Oh, google shows me it's called 'head', 'delivery head'. Point is, if you have to pump the water upwards the flow decreases drastically. If that is the case and you can raise the rez. I have my water pump hanging in the rez rather than standing on the bottom, just to save another 6inches of pumping upwards.

A hose is usually too small if it pushes out the water out in a too harsh stream or if the pressure of the pump is really too low (which again can be a result merely from having to pump upwards too far). Smaller hose means relatively faster flow (inside that hose), not necessarily less throughput in total. I actually do that on purpose with the chiller's return waterfall, I fold up a piece of plastic and put that in the end of the hose that ends slightly above the rez, to narrow it. That results in the return waterfall from the chiller 'spraying' in the soup but does not noticeable reduce the throughput (because the pump can handle it).

My feed line is probably 3/8", but it spreads out in 8x 4mm lines with the sprayers attached. You got more tubes and can probably use bigger but I don't think it's 'the' issue.

That head value differs a lot per pump, per brand, but for example:

That 4000l/hr (roughly 1100gph) as you can see, loses performance quite rapidly if you pump higher than 3 feet/1m.

I use a 350GPh for the tubes, would have liked a bit more already if you used 396 gph then the one with twice the size seems more suitable for your setup yes.



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> If I pull a net pot up high enough to see the water, it looks almost stagnant.


Then I do think that is likely the primary cause of the plants not looking optimal. If the throughput is not good enough and the flow already shallow it's possible pools form in valleys of roots sort of speak, and those parts are then not as often refreshed as the main stream. That would result in drooping plants exactly like overwatering on soil. This is also why GH aeroflo systems (and my tubes) contain sprayers, not to mimic aero, but to aerate the flow and spread out the supply feed. I won't be using sprayers if I rebuild but that does indeed require the flow is optimal (and will be less of any issue with separate tubes like you already planned).


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## Mohican (Jul 25, 2015)

The best hydro plants I have seen had roots in massively bubbling water. I have never seen a downside to adding more bubbles. I am still not convinced that the O2 is the reason that the plants are so happy with bubbles. Our atmosphere is 80% nitrogen.

As for the Pro-TeKt - I use double with no ill effects. Pour it in slowly as you mix. You will see it react with your mix. I am pretty sure that the label says to add it last. Since I am in soil now I add it and Cal Mag with every watering. Both of these additives are the only ones I have used that I would call essential for Cannabis. When I ran out and stopped using them I had bug and vigor issues.

Are you using a micro nutrient additive? When I found out that adding copper to your water makes citrus fruit sweeter, I started adding micronutrients to my feed. I started with AN Jungle Juice Micro. It worked great on my whole garden! Now I use liquid kelp because I am growing organically. Kelp would probably be bad in the res but AN Micro may help with any deficiencies. I use it at quarter strength. Pro-TeKt and Cal Mag are the only additives I have found that are OK to use in higher doses. Everything else I use at about quarter strength and then half strength when there is massive growth or flowering.

How fast and heavy is the flow of water through your tubes?

Sorry if it sounds like I am criticizing or lecturing - I just want to help you succeed at this frickin amazing experiment you have going on!

Cheers,
Mo


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## jigfresh (Jul 25, 2015)

Only downside to so much oxygen is it can raise pH, as far as I know.


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## Mohican (Jul 25, 2015)

I wonder if running CO2 will help? Have you toyed with adding that dimension to your setup?

I am working on plans for a completely sealed grow lab where I can measure each variable until I have the perfect environment.

I was amazed at how much my indoor girl drank! Made my room way too humid!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 25, 2015)

Mohican said:


> I wonder if running CO2 will help? Have you toyed with adding that dimension to your setup?
> 
> I am working on plans for a completely sealed grow lab where I can measure each variable until I have the perfect environment.
> 
> I was amazed at how much my indoor girl drank! Made my room way too humid!


I haven't but only because I was not really sure if it was needed since my basement is so large. Something I better start reading up on though I guess.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 25, 2015)

Mohican said:


> The best hydro plants I have seen had roots in massively bubbling water. I have never seen a downside to adding more bubbles. I am still not convinced that the O2 is the reason that the plants are so happy with bubbles. Our atmosphere is 80% nitrogen.
> 
> As for the Pro-TeKt - I use double with no ill effects. Pour it in slowly as you mix. You will see it react with your mix. I am pretty sure that the label says to add it last. Since I am in soil now I add it and Cal Mag with every watering. Both of these additives are the only ones I have used that I would call essential for Cannabis. When I ran out and stopped using them I had bug and vigor issues.
> 
> ...


OK on the Pro-Tekt...it arrived today btw.

One of the 7 parts to my nutes is a Micro bottle so yes, using Micro's.

Regarding the speed of flow...I'll time this next time I change the rez but when I remove the drain pipe and let the water drain into 5 gallon buckets, I'm going to estimate it takes about 2.5 to 3 minutes for the 5 gallon bucket to fill up. So that's the rate of fresh water coming in as well.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 25, 2015)

Sativied said:


> That's how I run as well, 2 aqua pumps, one for tubes, smaller one for chiller. Downside in my case is that the pump for the chiller also warms up the water (even if it would normally not get too warm) so the chiller runs more often than when using the same pump for tubes and chiller. The upside is that you get two waterfalls for increase DO.
> 
> A major factor in aquapump's flow rate is usually above all the.. ummmm, I don't know the english word lol.... the 'up-pump-height'. Oh, google shows me it's called 'head', 'delivery head'. Point is, if you have to pump the water upwards the flow decreases drastically. If that is the case and you can raise the rez. I have my water pump hanging in the rez rather than standing on the bottom, just to save another 6inches of pumping upwards.
> 
> ...



_ If the throughput is not good enough and the flow already shallow it's possible pools form in valleys of roots sort of speak, and those parts are then not as often refreshed as the main stream. That would result in drooping plants exactly like overwatering on soil.
_
Bingo! This has to be it. I'm going to add that 2nd input valve and if I have space maybe even a 3rd.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 25, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 44*
*Flowering Day 11*

The girls seem to be doing a 2nd stretch. The initial stretch seemed to be interrupted...maybe due to recent issues. At any rate, starting to see a little bit of bud starting to form...very exciting! The C99 plants...I'm just not sure what to make of them. They look so weird to me. Very sativa. Very thin leaves and stems. At this point, my expectations are pretty low for them.

      


*C99*
 

*Sour Blueberry*
 

*Blue Dream*
 

*Blueberry Headband*
 

These might be the last pics I take with the HPS turned on...sorry they suck.


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## Sativied (Jul 25, 2015)

I see what you mean with the C99, it branched out a lot, too much to form a good main cola and not enough to get smaller colas on the branches. Still, I think she'll surprise you, it's normal that it starts out with less pistils, less dense pompons of pistils that is.

Anyway, looks pretty good man. Once you got the flow improved and the AB nutes things should go a bit smoother. AB contains plent of calmag by the way... It's complete.

All the petioles, leaf stems, look healthy green. Shows again it's unlikely a nute def. the cotyledons are probaby still green too right?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 25, 2015)

Sativied said:


> I see what you mean with the C99, it branched out a lot, too much to form a good main cola and not enough to get smaller colas on the branches. Still, I think she'll surprise you, it's normal that it starts out with less pistils, less dense pompons of pistils that is.
> 
> Anyway, looks pretty good man. Once you got the flow improved and the AB nutes things should go a bit smoother. AB contains plent of calmag by the way... It's complete.
> 
> All the petioles, leaf stems, look healthy green. Shows again it's unlikely a nute def. the cotyledons ate probaby still green too right?


I'm going to guess 1/2 of them are. Next time I'm down I'll take a close look. Cool regarding the calmag...BPN has it as well and since I have well water I try and avoid it now. Havent used calmag at all this round.


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## Mohican (Jul 25, 2015)

Here is my mainlined landrace sativa when I started flower:




Here is what she produced:










Cheers,
Mo


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## Sativied (Jul 25, 2015)

If you do happen to run into Ca or Mg def the easiest solution is to raise the PH a little to 6.2-6.3 for a couple of days. Just one of many examples, some variation but for Ca and Mg it's fairly consistent:





That's why ph fluctuation is actually a good thing and keeping it fixed on 5.8 for example is not ideal.


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## Mohican (Jul 25, 2015)

Looks like swinging from 4 to 7.5 would be beneficial!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 25, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Here is my mainlined landrace sativa when I started flower:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


HAHA! That's awesome. Alright...we'll see soon enough


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## skunkd0c (Jul 25, 2015)

Mohican said:


> The best hydro plants I have seen had roots in massively bubbling water. I have never seen a downside to adding more bubbles. I am still not convinced that the O2 is the reason that the plants are so happy with bubbles. Our atmosphere is 80% nitrogen.
> 
> As for the Pro-TeKt - I use double with no ill effects. Pour it in slowly as you mix. You will see it react with your mix. I am pretty sure that the label says to add it last. Since I am in soil now I add it and Cal Mag with every watering. Both of these additives are the only ones I have used that I would call essential for Cannabis. When I ran out and stopped using them I had bug and vigor issues.
> 
> ...


i have always found the logic of dwc hard to get my head round, plants do not like sitting in water, so the bubbles are there to stop them drowning , 
i know dwc does very well i have built some systems before , it just makes more sense to me to keep the roots in shallow water, with as much of the root mass directly in air as possible
30-40% nft or even better aero 100%

allowing roots to grow into a root ball or in pots is not the best idea also imo, 
training roots to grow out evenly and flat allows the roots to occupy the maximum surface area the roots can develop into to a thin but dense rootmat ,
the more surface area of roots directly in the stream the more points the plant can feed from
training the roots to grow organised and flat allows the roots to be covered by a very shallow 3-5mm constantly moving stream of nute solution
because the stream is shallow and spread out wide over a large surface area "tray" it can easy pull in oxygen as it travels across the roots
plants will grow very big and yield well in this type of system, but i guess the downside is they are not so practical space wise, spreading out the roots like this takes up more
space than cramming roots into a pot 

peace


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 25, 2015)

Minor update:

I added a 2nd feed pump and wow...good and bad. 1st off, the water is coming out of the line much more aggressively than the line going thru the chiller. The rate of flow is very good now but defects in the tubes have surfaced. There are some spots where leveling is a problem...specifically the last row under the C99's. The water level is within a 1/2" of overflowing thru the net pots. I'm going to keep the pump running and just monitor. My rez level dropped considerably...there is at least 5 more gallons in the tubes now...maybe more than that. I've ordered some more pumps and will experiment using 2 weaker pumps not running thru the chiller. Will report back.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 25, 2015)

@Sativied 
You've probably already answered this so I apologize in advance but did you find there was a sweet spot when it came to water depth in the tubes? Does the air in between the water and the net pots play much of a role?

Btw...I turned off the 2nd pump for now. I'm not comfortable with how high the levels are right now. Will revisit tomorrow.


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## Sativied (Jul 25, 2015)

There's little to no space between the flow and the bottom of my cups. By itself the distance doesn't matter a whole lot (within reason of course) but it's best to avoid sudden changes during the cycle, If that second pump ends up raising the level a lot it would be ideal to set the pump at a lower setting first if possible and change the level gradually. Also don't want to go so high you start flushing the stem instead of the roots.

The second pump does sound like an improvement if it increases the flow a lot. Perhaps try it on a timer. That 1/2" from overflowing does sound too high, to get that high something must obstruct the flow, ie. like a dam, is the drain pipe clogged with roots from the last plant?

And np man, ask all you want.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 25, 2015)

Sativied said:


> There's little to no space between the flow and the bottom of my cups. By itself the distance doesn't matter a whole lot (within reason of course) but it's best to avoid sudden changes during the cycle, If that second pump ends up raising the level a lot it would be ideal to set the pump at a lower setting first if possible and change the level gradually. Also don't want to go so high you start flushing the stem instead of the roots.
> 
> The second pump does sound like an improvement if it increases the flow a lot. Perhaps try it on a timer. That 1/2" from overflowing does sound too high, to get that high something must obstruct the flow, ie. like a dam, is the drain pipe clogged with roots from the last plant?
> 
> And np man, ask all you want.


The high level is due to the contraption being uneven and out of level in spots. My newest design will do a better job on that topic. The immediate fix I think is to shim that side up a little bit.
2nd pump on a timer is certainly a good option too.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 26, 2015)

The girls are looking fantastic now! Topped off with 4 gallons @25% strength...no PH down. PH had crept down to 5.2 overnight and the topoff has it at 5.8 now. I turned the 2nd feed pump on for a couple of minutes but unfortunately the problematic tube started to overflow. No worries though...I'll be shimming that side soon and will start experimenting with different pump sizes to find the sweet spot.


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## akhiymjames (Jul 26, 2015)

Yea it seems like you found the problem with the water flow not flowing as good as it should and having stagnant water. Your system is good and I'm sure those roots are clogging things up a lil too but that just shows how good you've got them going. Glad to hear they are looking back good cant wait to see what this produces. If you can get this mastered I don't think you will need to prototype or experiment with new system cus this looks amazing.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 26, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Yea it seems like you found the problem with the water flow not flowing as good as it should and having stagnant water. Your system is good and I'm sure those roots are clogging things up a lil too but that just shows how good you've got them going. Glad to hear they are looking back good cant wait to see what this produces. If you can get this mastered I don't think you will need to prototype or experiment with new system cus this looks amazing.


Thanks man! Yup, I'm going to devote all of my mental energy into this. Construction on the next one starts soon. I'll be germinating seeds and establishing roots DWC style right in this same octagon approx 20 days before these finish. This is part of my perpetual plan as well. Think of a childrens swimming pool with foam board on top with 2" holes to hold 100 ish net pots. Put them inside the octagon 20 days before harvest. Once the flowering girls finish, these will have roots long enough to go right into the tubes for the next round. 1 light still and shave 20 days off the total time. Almost 4 1/2 harvests per year per octagon.

Regarding clogging, I'm not really seeing any signs of this. Are the roots causing the water level to rise a little? Yes, I think they are.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 26, 2015)

@Sativied 
I'm not looking to challenge your experitse but it would seem to me that if I aim for shallow water depth that might be the best. The less water in the tubes the better the flow will be. With my 8 sided design, I could actually design this so the tubes ran with a slight down hill bias. Providing the plants go in with mature enough roots, I'm not really seeing any downsides. Thoughts?


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## Sativied (Jul 26, 2015)

Keep in mind you are using round tubes so a shallow flow automatically means a narrow flow (unlike for example @skunkd0c's trays which are flat and wider allowing him to spread out the roots and the flow. I'd love to see a pic Skunkd0c, of a tray alone, never entirely understood how your system connects).



Put it in the pic already, but running shallow in a tube fits better with running sprayers in between netpots.

My tubes are slightly tilted too, but then without the dam the flow would be very shallow and narrow, i.e. the tubes would drain faster than the pump could supply enough new water. Only a dam changes that effectively. A bigger pump raises it only slightly, it just makes the same stream go faster (up to a point of course, but then the flow becomes to harsh).

By itself either way should work. In addition to a shallow flow you could even put that flow on a timer. Many different ways to Rome. But, I don't agree with this conclusion per se:
"_The less water in the tubes the better the flow will be."_
It's true that tubes that hold more water need a bigger pump to recirculate everything often enough but the amount of water in the tubes is by itself not a determining factor of the quality of the flow. It depends on what causes the increased amount of water in the tubes. The amount you recirculate is what matters. If you recirculate 100 gallon per hour with 10 gallon in the tubes that flow is better than recirculating 50 gallon per hour with 7 gallon in the tubes for (an exegarrated) example. A shallow flow will also have a harder time overcoming obstacles, like concentration of roots, i.e. you risk more pooling. Also, just perception and not science to back it up but my root mass gets as high as my flow.

I'm going to look up a formula I once posted in a bit. By itself not very practical for us but it shows what's important.

Also, if you start in DWC I would flood them to make sure those DWC submerged roots are submerged in the tubes as well, or at least add a means to start flooded and lower gradually to avoid transplant stress/delay (first problem I ran into pre-dam).


Hot Diggity Sog said:


> @Sativied
> I'm not looking to challenge your experitse


I enjoy sharing my thoughts extensively because I know you won't simply replicate it without giving it thought yourself. In the end you got to do what you think is best for your setup 

Great to hear the plants are doing well again. Try to avoid ph lower than 5.6 if you can (should be less of an issue with the AB. If it still drops too fast start out a little higher, like 6.3. Note the small notes in the ph graph I posted, there are a couple of other factors that play a role. Too low and too high ph has chemical reactions that essentially reduce nutrient availability too.


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## Sativied (Jul 26, 2015)

Found it: Ideally, with 4kg of roots per square meter you need to refresh the root zone with 100 liter water per hour, which should contain 8 mg oxygen per liter.

That's from a large professional test setup and holds true for most (if not all) plant species.

Fresh water at 68f contains (according to some aquarium site) avg. of 9.1mg oxygen per liter. In sea water this is nearly 25% less, 7ish. "Any dissolved solids will reduce the dissolved oxygen level by that amount, not just salt." It's more or less the same for fish. Using air stones, but also things like return waterfalls and the flow itself should be enough to get to that 8mg. Plenty of folks figured out that it's not hard to reach that max DO level, it's maintaining it that's the challenge. 8 mg in the rootzone is not enough if it's not refreshed often enough. Once that is reached however, there's imo no benefit to having parts of roots not submerged, on the contrary. The flow flowing through all roots is what makes the system so great.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 26, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Found it: Ideally, with 4kg of roots per square meter you need to refresh the root zone with 100 liter water per hour, which should contain 8 mg oxygen per liter.
> 
> That's from a large professional test setup and holds true for most (if not all) plant species.
> 
> Fresh water at 68f contains (according to some aquarium site) avg. of 9.1mg oxygen per liter. In sea water this is nearly 25% less, 7ish. "Any dissolved solids will reduce the dissolved oxygen level by that amount, not just salt." It's more or less the same for fish. Using air stones, but also things like return waterfalls and the flow itself should be enough to get to that 8mg. Plenty of folks figured out that it's not hard to reach that max DO level, it's maintaining it that's the challenge. 8 mg in the rootzone is not enough if it's not refreshed often enough. Once that is reached however, there's imo no benefit to having parts of roots not submerged, on the contrary. The flow flowing through all roots is what makes the system so great.


OK. Thanks for the input as usual. I will adjust my PH to get it more in line. If I'm going to have these 1/2 point overnight drops then my range should be 6.2 to 5.7 or thereabouts.
I'm also going to take some pictures to try and illustrate the tube transitions in the new design.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 26, 2015)

@Sativied
Another quick question: You had mentioned a while back about running EC 1.0 from start to finish. I'm currently working on the DWC design for seedlings before they would enter the tubes. Using 2 inch net pots and 1 1/2" rockwool, they will need top watering daily most likely. If I top water with PH'd only water but their roots were to dip into 1.0 EC at a very early age, such as a week old, do you think this is OK or is that too hot for them? The main reason I ask is that it would be a lot easier if the seedlings could receive water from the same rez as the flowering plants that are nearing completion.


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## Sativied (Jul 26, 2015)

I usually run 0.72-0.86 EC in my pre-veg (first 10-14 days from seed) dwc boxes. Then when I move to tubes they get roughly 0.9-1.1. I need to keep it low in the dwcboxes because it rises too fast ( and ph drops) if I run higher, the boxes are small so fluctuations happen fast. I don't think they will actually burn at 1.0 ec, especially combined with the topwatering, but it might be a little stressfull on the roots. I think if everything else is optimal it could work.

Also, that's after 1 week of that first 20 days of the next plants for the octagon, and thus the last 13 days of the flowering plants right? The plants slowly reduce nutrient uptake late in the cycle, so I run slighlty lower then already, pretty much down to that first range I mentioned above. The easy solution would be running 0.8 EC the last couple of weeks, which is plenty at that time.. The last week or two I just add water instead of topping of with nutes, to lower the ec along with the decreasing demand. So that's potentially an issue.

Another thing to consider is that the plants will get in a worse shape near the end, some perhaps more than others, possibly need to harvest in stages with old roots going bad. In that case you obviously don't want to use that same water for the seedlings and use a fresh solution instead.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 26, 2015)

Sativied said:


> I usually run 0.72-0.86 EC in my pre-veg (first 10-14 days from seed) dwc boxes. Then when I move to tubes they get roughly 0.9-1.1. I need to keep it low in the dwcboxes because it rises too fast ( and ph drops) if I run higher, the boxes are small so fluctuations happen fast. I don't think they will actually burn at 1.0 ec, especially combined with the topwatering, but it might be a little stressfull on the roots. I think if everything else is optimal it could work.
> 
> Also, that's after 1 week of that first 20 days of the next plants for the octagon, and thus the last 13 days of the flowering plants right? The plants slowly reduce nutrient uptake late in the cycle, so I run slighlty lower then already, pretty much down to that first range I mentioned above. The easy solution would be running 0.8 EC the last couple of weeks, which is plenty at that time.. The last week or two I just add water instead of topping of with nutes, to lower the ec along with the decreasing demand. So that's potentially an issue.
> 
> Another thing to consider is that the plants will get in a worse shape near the end, some perhaps more than others, possibly need to harvest in stages with old roots going bad. In that case you obviously don't want to use that same water for the seedlings and use a fresh solution instead.


The lower EC towards the end makes sense but I had not considered the older roots going bad. OK.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 27, 2015)

Just to be safe then, I'll plan on having a separate rez and chiller for the seedlings.


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## Alaric (Jul 27, 2015)

Sativied said:


> I usually run 0.72-0.86 EC in my pre-veg (first 10-14 days from seed) dwc boxes. Then when I move to tubes they get roughly 0.9-1.1. I need to keep it low in the dwcboxes because it rises too fast ( and ph drops) if I run higher, the boxes are small so fluctuations happen fast. I don't think they will actually burn at 1.0 ec, especially combined with the topwatering, but it might be a little stressfull on the roots. I think if everything else is optimal it could work.
> 
> Also, that's after 1 week of that first 20 days of the next plants for the octagon, and thus the last 13 days of the flowering plants right? The plants slowly reduce nutrient uptake late in the cycle, so I run slighlty lower then already, pretty much down to that first range I mentioned above. The easy solution would be running 0.8 EC the last couple of weeks, which is plenty at that time.. The last week or two I just add water instead of topping of with nutes, to lower the ec along with the decreasing demand. So that's potentially an issue.
> 
> Another thing to consider is that the plants will get in a worse shape near the end, some perhaps more than others, possibly need to harvest in stages with old roots going bad. In that case you obviously don't want to use that same water for the seedlings and use a fresh solution instead.


Interesting points:

Any idea how much yield reduction you would expect if running staggered veg and flowering and one size fits all nute soup (all 2' - 5' plants veg and flower)?

A~~~


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## Budget Buds (Jul 27, 2015)

Holy shit man  I just read all 74 pages of your growing journal , It took me almost 5 hours to read it all . Its nice to see what others have come up with and the problems they have to overcome. I'm really diggin the new setup and all the automation you have installed to make things easier for yourself. Keep up the good work and the best of luck !!
BB


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## Alaric (Jul 27, 2015)

Did a little digging on the GH aeroflow "laser drilled" spray line------I don't see anything aero about it.

http://generalhydroponics.com/site/gh/docs/instructions/LaserSprayline_inst.pdf

I molded one of my first designs after it but used 6" pvc tubes and 1/2" pvc with 1/8" holes (never clogged up).

@Satived I did this with you in mind buddy----perhaps I dreamed it But I vaguely remember you saying something about sprayers used in the Aeroflow----could be wrong (again).

A~~~


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## Sativied (Jul 27, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Interesting points:
> 
> Any idea how much yield reduction you would expect if running staggered veg and flowering and one size fits all nute soup (all 2' - 5' plants veg and flower)?


Zero grams.

I already use the same soup for tubes (flower) as DWC (veg). I.e. After mixing a fresh batch in the large rez I use some of it for dwc (or hempy or coco but then I do ). They are however not connected to the same rez so I can mix a soluion for it separately, and top off separately.

Zero because running lower ppm does not equal underfeeding, just means you have to top off with nutes more often to keep it from really dropping too low and prevent imbalance. The whole concept of flower nutes is largely bs but one could simply run a little more A than B in veg and a little more B than A at the end (A is high on Ca and N, B high on P).

It's actually quite normal in large hydroponic greenhouses where plants of various age and size are in the same tray or bath.

A larger plant transpires more, has more root mass, so already takes up more nutrients. I.e. A larger plant does not necessarily require a high nutrient concentration, but will use more nutes regardless so will reduce the nutrient level in the rez faster.

So the larger flowering plants take up nutrients faster than the seedlings in veg, which means the EC will drop faster and you have to add nutes more often. 

There's from the plant's perspective really no reason to stay on that socalled sweetspot where water uptake and nutrient uptake is balanced. Convenient for the grower, but all the plant needs is being able to take up enough nutrients over time. It can do that at 600ppm but also at 400ppm. The difference is that the 400ppm makes the rez ppm drop faster so requires more maintenance.

I think the common misconception about the sweetspot is caused by an assumption that drinking from a high ec soup equals more nutrient uptake. Which is not necessarily the case. True for Ca and perhaps a few others, and in soil drinking pulls nutrients to the roots (flow beats that) but nutrient uptake (cation anion exchange) is a separate process. The EC climbing or dropping does not directly say something about the amount the plant needs to reach its genetic potential. 

Above all, unlike bloom boosters etc suggest, those few grams of nutrients are just a small factor. And then it's still the total amount of nutrients it takes up over time that's key, not the concentration of the soup it takes it from. Lower ppm is less stressful on the roots and plant which in turn maximizes allows for a more consistent nutrient uptake. 

That run I did to see what the minimum would be was at 360ppm, half being tap, and I don't think it reduced the yield by a single gram (impossible to measure so exact because there are so many other variables). It would perhaps become obvious on a hectare sized grow, but if it's like 2-5% it's hard to notice in a single bulb grow. That's also exactly the ppm I start out with for seedlings (that rooted through the cubes).


----------



## Sativied (Jul 27, 2015)

Alaric said:


> @Satived I did this with you in mind buddy----perhaps I dreamed it But I vaguely remember you saying something about sprayers used in the Aeroflow----could be wrong (again).


The spray line in the aeroflo does not actually have separate sprayers but just holes. It still comes down to the same thing. It has indeed nothing to do with true aero, adding a few sprayers to it wouldn't change that either, it's to spread out the solution instead of having an entry point on one side, and not actually to mimic aeroponics. The spray line in the aeroflo is pointless, unless you run very long trays/tubes the solution can be pumped in on one side without adverse affects (depleted nutrients or oxygen at the end of the line).


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## Alaric (Jul 27, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Zero grams.
> 
> The whole concept of flower nutes is largely bs but one could simply run a little more A than B in veg and a little more B than A at the end (A is high on Ca and N, B high on P).
> 
> It's actually quite normal in large hydroponic greenhouses where plants of various age and size are in the same tray or bath.


Thanks---good read. Conclusions I've reached also. I do run my aero cloner / freshly rooted babies with separate rez ( large kitchen trash can, more N added).

I take my cuttings from veg plants 60 days old from cut till 12/12 using the same bloom soup.

It seems to me--- cuttings taken from veg plants feeding on a low N diet roots a little faster / better.

A~~~

I tried sending you a PM----wouldn't let me----still selecting pics of this journal (almost two decades)


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 27, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 46*
*Flowering Day 13*

Girls are doing pretty good. Still having some curling and spotting issues but collectively they look pretty healthy. Added some PH Up last night...1st time I've ever used PH Up. To my surprise, the PH remained stable overnight. Sitting at 6.0 currently. EC very steady at 1.1.

The pictures did not come out very well so I'm only going to post a few.

  


And a few close-ups of some buds starting


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## Alaric (Jul 27, 2015)

Sativied said:


> The spray line in the aeroflo does not actually have separate sprayers but just holes. It still comes down to the same thing. It has indeed nothing to do with true aero, adding a few sprayers to it wouldn't change that either, it's to spread out the solution instead of having an entry point on one side, and not actually to mimic aeroponics. The spray line in the aeroflo is pointless, unless you run very long trays/tubes the solution can be pumped in on one side without adverse affects (depleted nutrients or oxygen at the end of the line).


My Knock off before panels added-----drain port raised in tube to set nute level.


Edit: Just noticed an important change I made----the blue cobra line was positioned before the drain port----helps prevent roots from making it to the drain

A~~~


----------



## Alaric (Jul 27, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 3 Update
> Day 46
> Flowering Day 13*
> 
> ...


Already a jungle in there (yikes with 53 Days left).

Suggestion:

Train (trellis) your plants so they're growing out toward the light pruning a few of the lower branches thats going to be shaded anyway.

I always assumed plants would naturally grow toward the light----NOT SO----always up---must be this gravity thing.

I admire your commitment----hope you don't run out of gas.

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 27, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Already a jungle in there (yikes with 53 Days left).
> 
> Suggestion:
> 
> ...


I kind of figured they would grow toward the light too. This is my 1st ever vertical as well and the amount of lean was completely unknown. To my surprise, they are mostly going straight up as you said. I'm working on the trellis concept...trying to make something very simple...imagine 3 hoola hoop's connected...one for each row. Still letting the concept tumble around in my head.

Thanks for the encouragement and kind words. And I won't run out of gas!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 27, 2015)

Alaric said:


> My Knock off before panels added-----drain port raised in tube to set nute level.
> View attachment 3467442
> 
> Edit: Just noticed an important change I made----the blue cobra line was positioned before the drain port----helps prevent roots from making it to the drain
> ...


What did you use to cut those openings in the PVC? What technique did you use to seal those drain holes?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 27, 2015)

Okay everyone...my House and Gardens Aqua flakes arrived today...woohoo! To my surprise, I am happy to see that they are bottles of liquid. I was totally expecting the nutes to be dry powder. I guess the name "flakes" threw me...lol

I recalibrated my PH/EC gear and will prepare for the nutrient change soon.


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## Sativied (Jul 27, 2015)

Alaric said:


> I always assumed plants would naturally grow toward the light----NOT SO----always up---must be this gravity thing.


This thing in particular: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitropism

I expected them to lean more too though, I expected longer plants with less branches with their main cola hanging towards the center. Instead it looks like a flat canopy (from the side...), which is a good thing by itself. In addition to plant size spacing ideally the amount of buds is limited too.

I think it does show the light is sufficient in that regards, I mean if it weren't they would bend more towards the light: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phototropism So I think the main reason they don't bend towards the light is because they already oriented the leaves to the light being able to capture plenty of light without having to grow towards it.



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> To my surprise, I am happy to see that they are bottles of liquid. I was totally expecting the nutes to be dry powder. I guess the name "flakes" threw me...lol.


I have no idea why they call it "flakes", just a liquid indeed. I started out with "Hydro" AB, then read about AquaFlakes being created for recirculating systems with magnetic pumps and supposedly cleaner, purer or something. Both work fine but I stuck with the AquaFlakes. Still got 3gallons I look forward to using (can't buy it locally anymore).

Add A to water first ,15 min or so later add the B, let that mix a little, then use ph down. When I top off with nutes, I premix in a bottle or jug, so add A to water again and not to an AB solution. For example if I need to top off 10liter and want to add bit of nutes too I mix the nutes separately in a 1 liter bottle.


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## Alaric (Jul 27, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> What did you use to cut those openings in the PVC? What technique did you use to seal those drain holes?


Those 5'x9'x5" wide slots were marked with a sharpie then used a large drill bit and made holes inside the marked rectangle at the 4 corners just enough to get the jigsaw blade in and tried to make straight cuts.

Example:http://www.cpotools.com/bosch-jig-saws/bosch-jig-saws,default,sc.html?ref=msn&utm_source=msn&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=jig saw&utm_content=jig saws - gen&utm_campaign=cpo bosch - m__reconditioned - desktop

For drain (1" hose barb to 1" male pipe thread) used hole saw slightly smaller than a 1" tap----tapped hole and screwed the drain fitting in----works great (no leaks) Notice the wall thickness of that schedule 40----main reason why I chose that pvc instead schedule 20, also lends itself well for attaching the vinyl panels.

Same process used for supply line (spray line) except 3/4".

If you ever try this I suggest:

1) Once the slot is marked practice with the hole saws and taps before you try it for real (stings like a bitch getting the hole too big for the tap/s)

2) marking those cut outs takes some time but once one is remove it can be used as a template for marking more tubes----so hang on to it. 

A~~~


----------



## Alaric (Jul 27, 2015)

@satived When I first realized the gravity effect----it was on the stems above the light/s----and yes, the fans tended to follow the light making them "look" droopy---especially on the sides.

Good point about bud weight bending the branch----but until then upper plant branches are moving away from the light without any kind of training.

A~~~


----------



## hayrolld (Jul 28, 2015)

Dang man, you have had a busy week while I was on vacation. That was a lot to catch up on. Glad to hear your plants are bouncing back. I think the new nute set will help take care of the rest. @Sativied +rep for managing to explain clearly and cohesively the concepts behind why changes affect the hydro system. Hot Diggity what have you decided to do with the water pumps? Depending on where you are having overflow issues, you could try adding the second line after that in the tubes, instead of both at the beginning.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 28, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> Dang man, you have had a busy week while I was on vacation. That was a lot to catch up on. Glad to hear your plants are bouncing back. I think the new nute set will help take care of the rest. @Sativied +rep for managing to explain clearly and cohesively the concepts behind why changes affect the hydro system. Hot Diggity what have you decided to do with the water pumps? Depending on where you are having overflow issues, you could try adding the second line after that in the tubes, instead of both at the beginning.


Thanks man. @Sativied is simply an incredible resource and I am lucky to have him contributing to this 
Regarding the pumps...you know I'm not sure yet. The last few days I've just been turning the 2nd pump on for like a minute and then shut it down. Been doing this like 5 times a day. I have some less powerful pumps coming soon as well as 3/8" related gear. So I'll trying an assortment of pump sizes as well as trying 3/8" feed lines. If I have to do this manually for the duration that's ok but I feel pretty confident I can find a good combination that will work.


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## sunny747 (Jul 28, 2015)

I have a Lemon Kush seed germinating... I have 5 plants in flower right now, but have some extra space in my tent. Thinking of running her 12/12 or I could veg her for a few weeks, but that requires a veg space and more electricity etc.. What do you guys think? Put her in a 2 gallon pot and pop her into the tent?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 28, 2015)

sunny747 said:


> I have a Lemon Kush seed germinating... I have 5 plants in flower right now, but have some extra space in my tent. Thinking of running her 12/12 or I could veg her for a few weeks, but that requires a veg space and more electricity etc.. What do you guys think? Put her in a 2 gallon pot and pop her into the tent?


If you've never tried it, go for it! Feed it just like you normally would if it was on a regular light schedule and once you see pistols, pretend that you switched the lights to 12/12 a week or two ago and feed according to that timeline.


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## Alaric (Jul 28, 2015)

HDS,

Any decisions about trellis implementation?

If not, Here's what I ended up with. Player around with wire screen (hated it) settled on 1/2 electrical conduit running parallel to the tubes ( better rigidity than pvc).

Anyway, seems you already have vertical attachment points for something similar.

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 28, 2015)

Alaric said:


> HDS,
> 
> Any decisions about trellis implementation?
> 
> ...


Not quite yet. As soon as I get thru this nute lineup change and get a better handle on my pump situation, that's next on the list. Figure I've got several more weeks before that will be a problem.


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## Alaric (Jul 28, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Figure I've got several more weeks before that will be a problem.


Well OK, I think you'll discover it's much easier to train branches while they are small.

A~~~


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 29, 2015)

*Nutrient Change Update
*
So this morning was the big day to change my nutrient lineup from Blue Planet Elite to House & Garden Aqua Flakes.

Here is the new lineup:
Pro-Tekt Silica
Aqua Flakes A + B
Dutch Master Gold Zone

This update is kind of boring but it's so I have a permanent record of how this 1st mix went. If this ends up being helpful to anyone, then great!

I began by flushing my whole system with a ton of tap water to try and remove as much of the old recipe as possible.

I then filled up my 27 gallon rez and it was sitting at 0.4 EC and 7.2 PH
I added 75 ml of Pro-Tekt Silica and waited between 5 and 10 minutes. Note, that my rez is aggressively agitated with air stones and a water pump.

After the silica was well mixed, EC was 0.5 and PH was 9.3

I then added 100 ml of Aqua Flakes Part A. After 10 minutes, EC was 1.0 and PH was 9.0

Next, I added 100 ml of Aqua Flakes Part B. After 5 minutes EC was 1.4 and PH was 7.5

I then added 30 ml of ZONE and the EC held steady at 1.4 as did the PH at 7.5

Next came PH down. I did 40 ml and after several minutes everything stabilized at EC 1.4 and PH at 5.9.

The tubes were more or less void of water by this point so I connected everything back up and turned the pumps on. Knowing how much water the tubes hold, I knew I would have the option to add 5 more gallons of water to the rez which is exactly what I did.

After letting everything cycle for another 10 minutes, EC was sitting at 1.2 and PH was at 6.2.

I then added 10 more ml of PH down and after stabilizing, EC is at 1.2 and PH at 5.9. It held steady for about 10 minutes and then EC fell to 1.1 and PH rose to 6.1. I expect EC to be fine but the PH will probably bounce around a little for the next few hours. I'll keep an eye on things and adjust as needed.


----------



## Budget Buds (Jul 29, 2015)

I used to use BC nutrients , I took a trip out to a friends family members grow and he turned me on to dyna gro nutrients , he also explained to me about how the nutrient companies are ( while making good nutrients) are for the money , They could make a one bottle for veg and one bottle for bloom but most do not because they will loose out on lots of $$$. This guy knows his shit and sent me home with a bottle of the bloom for my 12/12 run I was about to do and told me if I did not see better results that he would give me a pound. I had better results and he still sent me one anyways lol . I ran the dyna grow and never looked back. I still have some of the original bottle he gave me . I used to pay 40-70 bucks every grow for nutrients from bc , I paid 16 bucks for the bloom 5 or 6 grows ago and barely used 1/3 of a bottle . I run aeroponics and have had positive results with no clogging or lock up. Try em out HDS , you wont be disappointed


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## Mohican (Jul 29, 2015)

Are the plants perking up?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 29, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Are the plants perking up?


They look about the same. They were not really looking bad perse...just some spots on leaves and some leaf dropping but the drooping is like maybe 5% of the plants. I'll check again soon. I had to add 20 more ml's of PH down but I refuse to add anymore. Sitting in the low 6's and if it does what it has been doing, hanging out in the low 6's for 2 days and then dropping...that's kind of what I want.

I know you had said you do double the suggested does of silica but I didnt have the balls to do that for the 1st time. Directions called for 0.5 to 1.0 tsp (or 2.5 to 5 ml) per gallon so I just went in the middle of that range...a little less actually.

Edit: I just went and checked on them...had not seen them for about 4 hours. They look about the same I guess. Maybe a tad bit better but I could be imagining it too. EC is at 1.1 and PH at 6.3


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## glockdoc (Jul 30, 2015)

you need to get that ph to a steady 5.9 or around the 5.7-6.0 area.
do not get me wrong they all look very very happy and healthy.


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## akhiymjames (Jul 30, 2015)

Never been a fan of having ph set at one reading. I like having it swing from 5.8 to 6.4 and def over 6.0 when in flower. Now if your handwatering that would be different but when dealing with a res I want it to swing to get food at different levels. Since he's in flower now I think the 6.3 is just fine gonna give more calmag to them and should help those flowers start to put out


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## glockdoc (Jul 31, 2015)

if the ph is rising on him, being at 6.3 it will get up there.. if he had it at 5.6-5.7 then lets it rise to 6-6.1 he'd be golden..
the ph fluctuation is minuet so he wont see any aliments from the ph swings.
any higher then 6.3 wouldnt lockout begin? 
yes it would require constant upkeep and adjusting but the fruits of his labor should pay off


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## cc2012 (Jul 31, 2015)

Awesome Thread/Journal HDS!! back to page 4.. Only another 71 pages to go and I’ll be caught up.

atb


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## harris hawk (Jul 31, 2015)

Doing a 12/12 from seed works better than most people think - especially auto's


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## Mohican (Jul 31, 2015)

My first grow outside was seeds put in the dirt on August 4th.

Mr Goo in October:



And I only fed it once! I can't imagine how nice it would have turned out if I had known what I was doing!

Cheers,
Mo


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## cc2012 (Jul 31, 2015)

Well I'm now on Page 13 and Post #258 by HdS, Oct 10, 2014.. WoW!! I'm not even into 2015 yet.. Bloody Good Read though HdS 12/12 from bean WILL be my next Grow.. again very interesting and full of Info.. even checked out the Link to NoMercySeeds.. .But all Regs(not for me anymore, each to their own though) Quick Splif break and back to reading.. ..

atb


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## Sativied (Jul 31, 2015)

cc2012 said:


> even checked out the Link to NoMercySeeds.. .*But all Regs*(not for me anymore, each to their own though)


That doesn't sound right, SpeesCees was a pioneer in feminized seeds. The one I've grown years ago was fem too.


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## cc2012 (Jul 31, 2015)

Ok..LoL!! Will have another Look, Little baked!!

Thanks 

Just got to Post #370 by HdS wasn't expecting that.. Sorry for your loss.. hope you and your family are all good.

atb


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## sunny747 (Jul 31, 2015)

Quick question.. I sprouted my Lemon Kush. She is a really strong seed. Had a tap root in 36 hours. 
Should I just pop her under my 400w HPS or would you advise putting her under some CFL or LED for a few days/weeks? I have her in the corner of the tent in a sort of shaded area. I feel like she is going to stretch for the stars.


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## Mohican (Jul 31, 2015)

400 is fine if it is up and away.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 1, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 51*
*Flowering Day 18*

Hey everyone. Sorry I've been a little MIA...got busy with life. I'll try and keep this update brief.

It's been 5 or so days since the nutrient lineup change. Everything is going great although I experienced the same dramatic PH drop which caused me to add more PH Up than I would like. I'm slowly learning and will probably do a full water change in a few days and if the PH is sitting at 6.5 then so be it. It will drop 3/4 of a point within 3 days and by then I will be able to top off and bring the PH back up a little. I'm trying to use as little PH management as possible.

I'm also still in the process of thinking about the next design. Hope to have some exciting updates on that front soon.

On to some pics.

*Group Shot*




*C99*
 




*Sour Blueberry*
 



*Blue Dream*
 



*Blueberry Headband*






*Chronic Thunder*




*Closeup of a Blueberry Headband. This one is a little further along than the others.
 



Closeup of a Sour Blueberry - This is one is also a little further along than the others
 *


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 1, 2015)

@cc2012 - I'd like to give you a proper and warm welcome! I've been lurking the last week and saw tons of likes coming from you but have not really had the chance to reply. I see you started all the way at the beginning...impressive! Again, welcome and glad to have you.

I've been collecting a massive amount of data. Things like Avg/Min/Max height. Avg/Min/Max girth (I'm calling girth how much space into the inner space of the octagon they are going). As several of you pointed out, there simply is no lean whatsoever...pretty interesting really.

I've also been carefully measuring and taking lux readings to determine the true shape that a vertical light covers. Again, pretty interesting. Once I finish with the 1000 I'll perform the same measurements on a 600. I can tell you now, it is very likely this next design will incorporate 2 600's stacked.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 1, 2015)

sunny747 said:


> Quick question.. I sprouted my Lemon Kush. She is a really strong seed. Had a tap root in 36 hours.
> Should I just pop her under my 400w HPS or would you advise putting her under some CFL or LED for a few days/weeks? I have her in the corner of the tent in a sort of shaded area. I feel like she is going to stretch for the stars.


Totally up to you. I've had nothing but success putting them right into an HPS or MH. That said, I've seen plenty of people that do just as well with CFL's too.


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## hayrolld (Aug 1, 2015)

HotDiggity the girls are looking good! I do not run 1212fs, how many weeks do you expect the plants to stretch during flower? Curious if that is why you are thinking of stacked 600s. I have seen a 1000w vertical with a light mover if you want to keep using that bulb/ballast. Question, the silica guys may need to chime in, but could you add the silica after the res pH has started dropping to offset that? Or would it precipitate out?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 1, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> HotDiggity the girls are looking good! I do not run 1212fs, how many weeks do you expect the plants to stretch during flower? Curious if that is why you are thinking of stacked 600s. I have seen a 1000w vertical with a light mover if you want to keep using that bulb/ballast. Question, the silica guys may need to chime in, but could you add the silica after the res pH has started dropping to offset that? Or would it precipitate out?


I thought about adding silica instead of PH Up but I was chicken and didn't. I don't have enough experience with silica to willy nilly it.

Regarding the stretch, it should be about over now. They will still get taller as the top colas grow but I think the majority of the height has been realized. The reasoning for 2 600's stacked is a lengthy explanation. I promise to share all my thoughts on this fairly soon. But basically it comes down to the footprint of a vertical bulb....its very circular. I'm going to be able to have more than 2x the number of plants vs a single bulb due to the overlapping. But as I said, I'll bring numbers with me when I start discussing it.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 1, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> HotDiggity the girls are looking good! I do not run 1212fs, how many weeks do you expect the plants to stretch during flower? Curious if that is why you are thinking of stacked 600s. I have seen a 1000w vertical with a light mover if you want to keep using that bulb/ballast. Question, the silica guys may need to chime in, but could you add the silica after the res pH has started dropping to offset that? Or would it precipitate out?


The light mover idea is intriguing...you've got me thinking again


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## Sativied (Aug 1, 2015)

Looking good HDS, beautiful picture of that BB Headband.


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## Mohican (Aug 1, 2015)

@whodatnation - had two octagons side by side with one light mover attached to both bulbs. When one bulb went up the other bulb went down. Back and forth.

@DST has two 600w bulbs in a tube in the middle of his vertical grow.

I saw a picture of a tube as big as a car that rotated on its side. the roots of the plants were on the outside and the leaves were on the inside pointing towards a light. There was a tray of water underneath that the roots would roll through as it turned.

All I have is dirt:




Cheers,
Mo


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## akhiymjames (Aug 1, 2015)

Let your nutes dictate the ph try not to use adjusters so regularly if you can. Try upping the silica a lil more as it raised ph pretty good. Cant remember if your using RO water or not but if you are you should prolly use some tap water with the RO well help with the ph. Everything is looking amazing bro your killing it cant wait to see the progression and finish


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## RED DANSON (Aug 1, 2015)

holy shit SOG! i've been MIA for a few weeks and am just getting caught up on some of the grows — these gals are goin' NUTS! in the first pic you posted today is it just my eyes, or have a couple of those lower cindys stretched all the way up to the top tube? very stoked to see how well this experiment is working for ya.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 1, 2015)

RED DANSON said:


> holy shit SOG! i've been MIA for a few weeks and am just getting caught up on some of the grows — these gals are goin' NUTS! in the first pic you posted today is it just my eyes, or have a couple of those lower cindys stretched all the way up to the top tube? very stoked to see how well this experiment is working for ya.


lol...I'll have to double check. The C99's are just crazy. I can't even really tell what's what in that sativa mess. I'll check and see if any bottom rows have reached the top.


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## glockdoc (Aug 1, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 3 Update
> Day 51
> Flowering Day 18*
> 
> ...


jesus christ almighty.

keep it up hds keep it up!!!
aero/nft for the win!


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## cc2012 (Aug 2, 2015)

Hiya HdS, james and well everyone else.. I'm still reading through this and tbh I'm SOLD on the Idea.. Indeed a small SoG? 12/12 from bean is in tha Planning stage ask We speak.. just got a Quick Question...then back to page 37 I go.. 

Question: I will be doing just tha 10x beans for my 1st 12/12 from Seed.. What would you say would be tha Better Pot Size 3L or 6L? any Ideas/thoughts on this folks.. Cheers..

@ HdS, I can't wait to get closer to the end of this Thread, Pretty sure I seen some "Starship Enterprise" Grow going on..

atb


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 2, 2015)

cc2012 said:


> Hiya HdS, james and well everyone else.. I'm still reading through this and tbh I'm SOLD on the Idea.. Indeed a small SoG? 12/12 from bean is in tha Planning stage ask We speak.. just got a Quick Question...then back to page 37 I go..
> 
> Question: I will be doing just tha 10x beans for my 1st 12/12 from Seed.. What would you say would be tha Better Pot Size 3L or 6L? any Ideas/thoughts on this folks.. Cheers..
> 
> ...


First of all, thank you! The fact you're taking the time to read thru literally thousands of posts is impressive!
Regarding container size, I really don't think it's going to matter. If you're going to do 10 seeds, what will you be using for lighting? You probably want to go the biggest you can for your space. The larger your containers and the more room you give them, the larger they will end up. All of my experiments have been focusing on cramming them in really tight but if you give them some elbow room and good root room they will get much larger and yield much more than what I've gotten.


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## akhiymjames (Aug 2, 2015)

cc2012 said:


> Hiya HdS, james and well everyone else.. I'm still reading through this and tbh I'm SOLD on the Idea.. Indeed a small SoG? 12/12 from bean is in tha Planning stage ask We speak.. just got a Quick Question...then back to page 37 I go..
> 
> Question: I will be doing just tha 10x beans for my 1st 12/12 from Seed.. What would you say would be tha Better Pot Size 3L or 6L? any Ideas/thoughts on this folks.. Cheers..
> 
> ...


Depends on your space and lighting bro, the genetics you will be running. Sativa dom will need bigger with all the stretch they have. Indica dom prolly not so much but still could need it as roots may grow fast. If your wanting buds from it off jump then fem seeds is the way to go unless your gonna pop 20+ reg seeds every few weeks to weed out males and replace with others. Get you a good strain in fem seeds and you should be good to go but lots of factors to think of


----------



## cc2012 (Aug 2, 2015)

Cheers for the replies Guys, I will start a Journal on this as to not hijack this Thread, but a little bit of quick Info won't hurt..
GR(cupboard) is about 4x4x8' and the Light will be 400w Dual Spectrum Mh/Hps and the strain, You'll probably Laugh.. because very "Cheap" compared to HdS Order for Chapter II.. waffling!!

Female Seeds Lemon Kush(Fems) £18.81 for 10, well £19 + £4 PnP so £23 in Total on Beans.. 

atb

@HdS, Well the Thread caught My eye and I liked what You was doing, still do.. but gotta read it all.. hate missing bits.. I have been looking into 12/12 for a while and contemplating it all.. But reading this made my mind up about it tbh, for Me its the using less Electricity and still achieving respectable results(only grow for Me & Missus) Waffling again..do it a lot..

atb


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 2, 2015)

cc2012 said:


> Cheers for the replies Guys, I will start a Journal on this as to not hijack this Thread, but a little bit of quick Info won't hurt..
> GR(cupboard) is about 4x4x8' and the Light will be 400w Dual Spectrum Mh/Hps and the strain, You'll probably Laugh.. because very "Cheap" compared to HdS Order for Chapter II.. waffling!!
> 
> Female Seeds Lemon Kush(Fems) £18.81 for 10, well £19 + £4 PnP so £23 in Total on Beans..
> ...


Have you decided on what your growing medium will be yet? And did I read that correctly...you will be using a 400 watt inside of a 4x4 tent?


----------



## cc2012 (Aug 2, 2015)

Sorry about delay in reply was still reading... I could use a tent..do have a roughly 4x4 but tbh never really liked it after buying it?? But yeah the space is just over 4x4' the 400w is Air Cooled and exhausted straight out of Cupboard.. as for Medium it will be mainly a CocoCoir Mix with added Fungi and whatnot, just something I've been playing with on tha last couple of Grows..Me Strawberry Blue ScroG is in this Mix as well as Me Blackberry Kush Autos.. I just can't decide on the 3L or 6L for Pots..Normally use 10/11L and 18L but for this Experiment figured they are way to BiG.. .Splif Time and back to Reading...You've just given the Tubs a Feed is where I'm @... Past Christmas now.. .. LoL!

atb


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 2, 2015)

cc2012 said:


> Sorry about delay in reply was still reading... I could use a tent..do have a roughly 4x4 but tbh never really liked it after buying it?? But yeah the space is just over 4x4' the 400w is Air Cooled and exhausted straight out of Cupboard.. as for Medium it will be mainly a CocoCoir Mix with added Fungi and whatnot, just something I've been playing with on tha last couple of Grows..Me Strawberry Blue ScroG is in this Mix as well as Me Blackberry Kush Autos.. I just can't decide on the 3L or 6L for Pots..Normally use 10/11L and 18L but for this Experiment figured they are way to BiG.. .Splif Time and back to Reading...You've just given the Tubs a Feed is where I'm @... Past Christmas now.. .. LoL!
> 
> atb


Here's my 2 cents then.
I don't think your 400 will be able to do 16 sq/ft (4x4). In fact, a 600 cannot do that much either.
I'd aim for about 30 inches square and try and fit all 10 in that footprint. Regarding container size, whatever you decide will be fine. 6 Liters seems just fine. What are the dimensions of your container?


----------



## cc2012 (Aug 3, 2015)

Well I'm getting there "loving" the Octagon Design and Ideas.. Experiment No.2 seems to have Turned out Nice towards the end.. . On Page 77 Post #1126 .. .20 Pages and I will be caught up. ...







It will be interesting to see what the end Results of Experiment No.2 are... 

Again very Interesting read!!

atb


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 3, 2015)

*Minor update:
*
I decided to do a full rez change this morning. I kept the recipe the same as last time but altered what I did for the PH management. I had a little bit of an issue worth mentioning and hopefully it's no big deal but you silica users can hopefully clear it up for me.

I mixed 75 ml's of Silica in 5 gallons and let sit for 15 minutes (stirred repeatedly)

I mixed 100 ml's of Part A into 5 gallons and let sit for 15 minutes (stirred repeatedly).

Once the tubes were drained and I had flushed probably 20 extra gallons of fresh water thru them, I poured the 5 gallons of silica mix into the rez. The rez prolly had about 5 gallons of water in it. The water became fairly cloudy. I hand stirred for a minute and then poured in the Part A mix. I continued stirring but it still looked cloudy. This lasted for about 5 minutes or so and then the cloudiness went away.

I then added Part B and ZONE.

Is the cloudy thing anything I need to worry about?

At the end of all of this, I added 37.5 ml's of PH down, mixed thoroughly and then turned the pumps back on. Going back to last week when I 1st mixed this soup, here is what I did:

40 ml's of PH Down. A few hours later, 10 ml more of PH down. Later that day, 10 ml more. This got me to 6.1/6.2 but then 2 days later I was fighting rapidly dropping PH and had to add 10 ml' of PH UP on 2 occasions before it finally stabilized.

The PH is currently sitting at 6.7 and although it's a tad on the high side, I think it's ok knowing that in 2 days it will start to drop. Besides, having the PH fluxuate seems like a great idea for the nute uptake. Any errors in my thinking here?

As usual, thanks for watching and providing feedback.

A full pic update will be coming in a few days.


----------



## Mohican (Aug 3, 2015)

I see this often too. I am not sure if it is a precipitate. 

When you cleaned out your res was there anything at the bottom?

Do you run a filter on your pump?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 3, 2015)

Mohican said:


> I see this often too. I am not sure if it is a precipitate.
> 
> When you cleaned out your res was there anything at the bottom?
> 
> Do you run a filter on your pump?


My rez was not completely empty. It had roughly 5 gallons in it...just plain water.
I don't run any filters on my pumps except for the filters that are built into them.

All of the pumps I use are EcoPlus pumps and they have a filter. Granted, they probably can only stop things as small as course perlite.


----------



## Mohican (Aug 3, 2015)

Have you checked the filters? I was amazed at how much stuff built up in mine. I finally removed it because it was gunking up with root bits so quickly.

I was just wondering whether there was a layer of precipitated silica at the bottom of your res or did it dissolve back into the mix.

I did the same thing with pH. I had to start low and it would creep up.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 3, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Have you checked the filters? I was amazed at how much stuff built up in mine. I finally removed it because it was gunking up with root bits so quickly.
> 
> I was just wondering whether there was a layer of precipitated silica at the bottom of your res or did it dissolve back into the mix.
> 
> I did the same thing with pH. I had to start low and it would creep up.


I'll check them all and give them a thorough cleaning if needed. Every time I change the water I run my fingers on the sides and bottom of the rez to just check for anything slimy or gross. Felt clean as new still. I would have surely felt silica if it was on the bottom, yes?


----------



## Mohican (Aug 3, 2015)

Yes - it would have felt like sand or grit.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 3, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Yes - it would have felt like sand or grit.


OK. Definitely did not feel any grit.


----------



## sky rocket (Aug 3, 2015)

I throw my 2 cents. When I used house and garden I first added cal mag, base a & b nutes, then I ph'ed to the ph range, and last the additives. I was following there directions. Don't know if that makes a difference.


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## Mohican (Aug 3, 2015)

Doesn't the ProTekt label directions say to add it last?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 3, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Doesn't the ProTekt label directions say to add it last?


It actually does not say. I was advised earlier to use it 1st...?


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## Mohican (Aug 3, 2015)

All I can find on their site is that you should dilute it with water before adding. I will go look at my bottle. I was sure it said to add last and then adjust pH.


----------



## Mohican (Aug 3, 2015)

My bottle says to add it first! I have been doing it wrong all this time!


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## akhiymjames (Aug 3, 2015)

Yes all Silica no matter the brand you should add it first if not you will see your nute water turn a cloudy milky color. This is not good and will lockout nutes and cause deficiencies. I learned the hard way lol had to dump a whole res smdh


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 4, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Yes all Silica no matter the brand you should add it first if not you will see your nute water turn a cloudy milky color. This is not good and will lockout nutes and cause deficiencies. I learned the hard way lol had to dump a whole res smdh


Crap...ok. Thanks for the help guys


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 4, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 54*
*Flowering Day 21*

Everything is going quite well. It's becoming pretty clear which plants took to the octagon early on and which ones didn't take to it for a couple of weeks after. I can't really capture all of the buds growing in the group shots...they just are not big enough yet but there are TONS!

Does it seem strange to anyone that some of the pistols are already starting to wilt to change color? Could they be getting too much light perhaps? Or maybe the heat? The temps in the room do not exceed 82 degrees.


----------



## Mohican (Aug 4, 2015)

The only thing I have seen make early hairs turn brown is pollination. Have you been around any males?

It is getting big in there!

Look at all of the flowers    

Are you backing off of the N and giving them PK and micro nutes?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 4, 2015)

Mohican said:


> The only thing I have seen make early hairs turn brown is pollination. Have you been around any males?


Nope. I better start weeding thru all of these and make sure there are no balls floating around. Ugh...That would be catastrophic.


----------



## Mohican (Aug 4, 2015)

Probably too early to be getting selfed. Unless you have some True OG from seed. They always throw a few male stem flowers. Clones are safe.

Don't wear clothes that have been outside and don't let people into your grow room. A few seeds won't hurt you though. Are you going to pollinate any of the flowers?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 4, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Probably too early to be getting selfed. Unless you have some True OG from seed. They always throw a few male stem flowers. Clones are safe.
> 
> Don't wear clothes that have been outside and don't let people into your grow room. A few seeds won't hurt you though. Are you going to pollinate any of the flowers?


Alright. Nobody but me is ever in there. I'll be cautious about my clothing too. I won't be doing any pollinating quite yet...that's 2 chapters from now


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## Sativied (Aug 4, 2015)

Based on the forelast pic it does not appear to be from pollination. When pollinated they don't all turn brown from the tip only. 

Besides pollination there are a quite a few possibilities, environment not being optimal, from night temps/humidity, to too much nutrients.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 4, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Based on the forelast pic it does not appear to be from pollination. When pollinated they don't all turn brown from the tip only.
> 
> Besides pollination there are a quite a few possibilities, environment not being optimal, from night temps/humidity, to too much nutrients.


Alright. Well, as usual I'll just keep a close eye on things. I'm still seeing some of that curling under as well as some leaf spotting too.


----------



## Mohican (Aug 4, 2015)

My eyes are so bad - I didn't even see any brown ones in those pictures!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 4, 2015)

Mohican said:


> My eyes are so bad - I didn't even see any brown ones in those pictures!


2nd from last picture. I can take some closer ones too. I'm probably just being overly sensitive to the slightest of problems.


----------



## Sativied (Aug 4, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> 2nd from last picture. I can take some closer ones too. I'm probably just being overly sensitive to the slightest of problems.


Being able to see more on close ups is handy but sure can cause unnecessary worrying too. I don't think you have to worry, its leaves look great so can't be terribly unhappy. Brushing your arm or something against them can have the same effect.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 4, 2015)

Quick update regarding PH as well. When I flushed and refilled the rez yesterday I mentioned that I used less PH down. The mix came out to 6.5 and slowly climbed to 6.8 throughout the day. This morning when the lights came on the PH was down to 6.4 and I just checked now and its down to 5.9. We'll see if it stabilizes here...I kind of think it will. Tomorrow morning will be ready for a topoff so I'll report back how it's doing.


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## Mohican (Aug 4, 2015)

If it is just the tip of the hair then you are fine. Normal wear and tear.


----------



## glockdoc (Aug 5, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Yes all Silica no matter the brand you should add it first if not you will see your nute water turn a cloudy milky color. This is not good and will lockout nutes and cause deficiencies. I learned the hard way lol had to dump a whole res smdh


silica then calmag, then whatever nutes your using.


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## cc2012 (Aug 5, 2015)

Well I've started a 12/12 thread and Indeed popped the 1st bean yesterday(hopefully be in the Dirt Tonight) this one is more for fun and to see.. What If? while I wait for the other Gals to finish. atb


----------



## akhiymjames (Aug 5, 2015)

cc2012 said:


> Well I've started a 12/12 thread and Indeed popped the 1st bean yesterday(hopefully be in the Dirt Tonight) this one is more for fun and to see.. What If? while I wait for the other Gals to finish. atb


Will be looking to see your results. What did you pop reg or fem?


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## cc2012 (Aug 5, 2015)

You'll Laugh Paradise Seeds - Vertigo *Autofem*  was a Freebie, and well I've not only been reading up on 12/12 but also Autos on 12/12 from seed.. just had to try..


----------



## akhiymjames (Aug 5, 2015)

cc2012 said:


> You'll Laugh Paradise Seeds - Vertigo *Autofem*  was a Freebie, and well I've not only been reading up on 12/12 but also Autos on 12/12 from seed.. just had to try..


I'll like to see what comes from that because your not doing the normal on a auto which usually states for at least 18hours of light so will be interesting to see how it goes. Its just a test run anyway so its good to use freebies that aren't much to us. Paradise had some good stuff tho ran 3 fems from them my first indoor grow and boy they were good the Nebula was very very good. Need to get a few of those to run again wish they would make regs again but seems like Paradise wont do that again


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 6, 2015)

Hey gang...quick question.

I've begun to transition from 5 or 6 day reservoir changes to the technique of simply topping off with fresh water and nutes every couple of days. Adding 5 more gallons to my 27 gallon reservoir every two days is the pace I'm on. My specific question involves ZONE. I've been operating under the assumption that the plants are not consuming ZONE and because of that I've not been adding more to the topoff. Can anyone provide feedback on how to properly use a product like ZONE when a reservoir is constantly being added to but not changed frequently?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 6, 2015)

cc2012 said:


> You'll Laugh Paradise Seeds - Vertigo *Autofem*  was a Freebie, and well I've not only been reading up on 12/12 but also Autos on 12/12 from seed.. just had to try..


Hey...I don't mean to criticize but are you sure it's a good idea to try your 1st 12/12 from seed with an Auto? I'm concerned that you will have unexpected and likely poor results as Auto's are not meant for 12/12. Just a kind suggestion that perhaps you should reconsider and go with a non-auto instead.


----------



## Budget Buds (Aug 6, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Hey...I don't mean to criticize but are you sure it's a good idea to try your 1st 12/12 from seed with an Auto? I'm concerned that you will have unexpected and likely poor results as Auto's are not meant for 12/12. Just a kind suggestion that perhaps you should reconsider and go with a non-auto instead.


Yea I will concur with the 12/12 being a bad idea for an auto, I run 20/4 with autos , anything less and you wont get good results


----------



## Mr.Head (Aug 6, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Hey...I don't mean to criticize but are you sure it's a good idea to try your 1st 12/12 from seed with an Auto? I'm concerned that you will have unexpected and likely poor results as Auto's are not meant for 12/12. Just a kind suggestion that perhaps you should reconsider and go with a non-auto instead.


Too add a little bit from my experience auto's in 12/12 won't yield for crap. Like a quarter if you're lucky. I ran a bunch of auto's when I started they weren't doing much and I wasn't impressed so I switched to 12/12 for the photo's I had in the same space. The auto's just basically stopped. They still flowered but extremely little and slow. 

I agree that you should try and find a photo to run. I've never hit under an OZ. per plant running 12/12 from seed and I've never got over a 1/4 with auto's in 12/12 after a 3 week 24hour light cycle. So even with a proper "Auto-veg" they still yielded less then the others. I may be able to find some pics in my old thread I'll look around for a sec.


----------



## cc2012 (Aug 6, 2015)

I know this fellas, and thanks  it's just something I gotta do, I will inc some of the material I've been reading online in the Thread I've started. Thanks again. How's that Jungle doing HdS.. ..


----------



## Mr.Head (Aug 6, 2015)

I'm almost positive the one on the left is either Pyramids Auto NYC or it's Blue Mystic auto from Nirvana.Either way you can see it sitting beside a photo ak.


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## Mr.Head (Aug 6, 2015)

cc2012 said:


> I know this fellas, and thanks  it's just something I gotta do, I will inc some of the material I've been reading online in the Thread I've started. Thanks again. How's that Jungle doing HdS.. ..


I hear you. trying new things is fun and you learn a lot  Just don't want you to feel like you've wasted your time is all.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 6, 2015)

cc2012 said:


> I know this fellas, and thanks  it's just something I gotta do, I will inc some of the material I've been reading online in the Thread I've started. Thanks again. How's that Jungle doing HdS.. ..


Doing very good. Will try and get an update today.


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## cc2012 (Aug 6, 2015)

Hiya Guys, thanks for input! I've just gotta do it though, just for seeing for my self and to Rec/Log Results.. I will probably do it with 3 different Autos over a period of time

For the 1st proper 12/12 I will be running Photos(Female Seeds Lemon Kush x 9) 3 x 3 in 3L Pots under a brand new 400w Dual Spectrum bulb(going to give Main 12/12 Grow all I can) Just waiting on Autos that are Cooking to finish..

atb


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 6, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 56*
*Flowering Day 23*

Things are going great. Only the Chronic Thunders are significantly under performing but since they were the last to go in, it's to be expected. Not sure what to make of the C99's. They are either going to be great or terrible. Very weird strain.

*C99's*
 

*Blueberry Headband*
 

*Sour Blueberry*
 


*Mostly Blue Dream here.*


----------



## Budget Buds (Aug 6, 2015)

Looking great  Any chance I could get a shot backed up a few feet so I can check out your awesome set up?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 6, 2015)

Budget Buds said:


> Looking great  Any chance I could get a shot backed up a few feet so I can check out your awesome set up?


Yup. I have a work conference call but afterwards. Gimme about an hour.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 6, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update - Continued*
*Day 56*
*Flowering Day 23*

Here are some group shots and and a couple of shots with me on a ladder. I've got to work on getting better lighting for these pictures.


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## Budget Buds (Aug 6, 2015)

Those c99 look like stringy sativa s lol but a clean room is a happy room and your room is very happy. You have come a long way in your endeavors my friend , Any plans to change the system any in the future or are you pretty content with the current set up?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 6, 2015)

Budget Buds said:


> Those c99 look like stringy sativa s lol but a clean room is a happy room and your room is very happy. You have come a long way in your endeavors my friend , Any plans to change the system any in the future or are you pretty content with the current set up?


Thanks man. With this being only my 3rd grow, 1st ever hydro, and first ever crazy container (the PVC tubes), I am thrilled with how things are going.

Regarding plans...lol. Yes, I've been going super nerd for the last few weeks. Measuring, drawing up plans, taking notes, etc. I'm pretty OCD so this is about all I think about these days.
The next round will be of the same concept but with a new design and it will be a full octagon. Start date for the seeds will be the 1st week of September and these are expected to finish on or around September 13th. The plan is to chop, trim, take a saws-all to this partial octagon and get the new one assembled all within a 2 day window and plop the new plants right in...already properly rooted.


----------



## Mohican (Aug 6, 2015)

No experience but your ZONE theory is sound.


----------



## Mohican (Aug 6, 2015)

Did you check the filters? Did you see anything?


----------



## Alaric (Aug 6, 2015)

Hey HDS-----accidently found your update----wonder why I didn't an alert?

Have you under estimated the explosive growth with a well designed system?

Wow---jungle in there ALREADY. I've grown c99 and it yielded nicely----great citrus flavor smoke.

Be careful with RH----had a couple of big colas get mold---yuk!

A~~~


----------



## Alaric (Aug 6, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> The next round will be of the same concept but with a new design and it will be a full octagon.


A full stationary octagon-- how do you plan to access the plants and light?

A~~~


----------



## cc2012 (Aug 6, 2015)

I've been getting massive Slow Down(only R.I.U.) and No Alerts. .. ..


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 7, 2015)

Hmm...I got no notifications of all of these replies either.
@Mohican - Filters on the pumps look perfectly clean.

@Alaric - 4 of the 5 strains going right now I have never done so I tried to size this 5 sided octagon based on nothing more than assumptions I made. The Sour Blueberry and Blueberry Headband are exhibiting the growth traits I'm looking for. Will just have to wait and see how they finish and smoke. I'm taking all of this knowledge and will use it when I finalize the next octagon. Regarding RH...I brought on a dedicated dehumidifier just for this room. I already have another running in my basement 24/7. This one in the room is currently on a timer to run 15 minutes each hour. It's keeping the room at a pretty consistent 48%. I'll increase the amount of time it runs as needed. Regarding the next design and accessing the plants...great question and I've been battling with this. It is possible I'll have to crawl under to access them.


----------



## Mohican (Aug 7, 2015)

Awesome! Your jungle is getting so big! 

How do you like this method?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 7, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Awesome! Your jungle is getting so big!
> 
> How do you like this method?


Absolutely love it. The next one will be even better. Details soon


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 10, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 60*
*Flowering Day 27*

Things are going great still. Now that I've been topping off the rez instead of changing it, I'm really on auto-pilot for the most part. I just love this system. The thought of going back to hand watering and then disposing of run-off...yuck. They are drinking about 4 1/2 gallons a day now so I'm topping off each day with Part A&B, ZONE and PH down. EC, temps and PH are very stable. PH usually jumps to 6.1 after the top-off and slowly trickles to 5.9 by the following day. Honestly, I would not mind seeing it fluctuate a bit more than that but the consistency is nice.

I've decided to remove the 1000 watt HPS and now have (2) 600 watt HPS. The C99's are really hogging the space and causing some issues. With (2) 600's, I have more flexibility with positioning. Also, the 1000 watt was having a difficult time giving good coverage from top to bottom. It also was a little too close to the plants due to the C99's sticking out so damned far.

I'll be taking all of my nerd measurements over the next few days to determine the final specs on the next octagon. I've decided to run Skunk #1 for the next octagon. While the Sour Blueberry and Blueberry Headband strains are exactly what I'm looking for from a growth standpoint, I have no idea if these strains will be well received. People went nuts over the Skunk #1 and I already know it is a very stable strain and am confident it will be suitable.

EC crept up to 1.2 last night and is currently sitting there. It's hard to fathom that they are being overfed at 1.2 but I think they are. Tomorrow's topoff will have a nute reduction. I guess I'll try and get down to 1.0 and see how they look.

 

*C99*


*Blue Dream*
 

*Sour Blueberry*
 


*Blueberry Headband*


----------



## cc2012 (Aug 10, 2015)

Looking Sweet HdS! that 1st Picture is like outta some Sci-Fi Horror Movie... the last remaining Lights... Plants are gonna get Ya!!

atb


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## Budget Buds (Aug 10, 2015)

I was offered clones of the c 99 once and turned it down due to them possibly having mites, Not sorry at all about it after seeing yours, No disrespect to your grow but c99 will be ones I will never try. Of course I'm a sog guy and we all love the short single cola indica too. Your room and plants look great as always


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 10, 2015)

Budget Buds said:


> I was offered clones of the c 99 once and turned it down due to them possibly having mites, Not sorry at all about it after seeing yours, No disrespect to your grow but c99 will be ones I will never try. Of course I'm a sog guy and we all love the short single cola indica too. Your room and plants look great as always


Thanks man. And yup, no C99 for me ever again.


----------



## Sativied (Aug 10, 2015)

Where did you get the C99? It's supposed to be short for a sativa and fast flowering (barely 8 weeks). Yours looks more like a remake than the actual cubed C99 from the Grimm Bros.



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> EC crept up to 1.2 last night and is currently sitting there. It's hard to fathom that they are being overfed at 1.2 but I think they are. Tomorrow's topoff will have a nute reduction. I guess I'll try and get down to 1.0 and see how they look."


As you can see in the last pics the bb headband has some burned tips indicating it prefers a little lower EC. The others have some clawing at the top too so yeah 1.0 will probably be a little easier on them. 



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I've decided to run Skunk #1 for the next octagon.


Excellent choice imo. 

And great to hear the topping off with nutes is working out as well for you as it did for me ("auto-pilot"... 'nough said.)


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 10, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Where did you get the C99? It's supposed to be short for a sativa and fast flowering (barely 8 weeks). Yours looks more like a remake than the actual cubed C99 from the Grimm Bros.
> 
> 
> As you can see in the last pics the bb headband has some burned tips indicating it prefers a little lower EC. The others have some clawing at the top too so yeah 1.0 will probably be a little easier on them.
> ...


The C99's are from 'Female Seeds'. I'm actually considering chopping some branches cause they are interfering with the plants next to them. Female seeds states flowering time of 7 to 8 weeks. Based on how they look, that seems incredibly unlikely.


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## Sativied (Aug 10, 2015)

Figured they were from Female Seeds. They chucked a C99 pineapple pheno with a C99 grapefruit pheno to create some fem beans. It often gets great reviews but that seems more about the product than the plants. The compact indica-like pheno of C99 needs about 8 weeks, the hazy/sativa pheno more like 9-10 and it's obvious which of the two you got. Especially considering you grow 12/12 from the start yours got very tall and lanky. I still think it could surprise later on, it does tend to fill in nicely and keep stacking layers of bud.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 10, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Figured they were from Female Seeds. They chucked a C99 pineapple pheno with a C99 grapefruit pheno to create some fem beans. It often gets great reviews but that seems more about the product than the plants. The compact indica-like pheno of C99 needs about 8 weeks, the hazy/sativa pheno more like 9-10 and it's obvious which of the two you got. Especially considering you grow 12/12 from the start yours got very tall and lanky. I still think it could surprise later on, it does tend to fill in nicely and keep stacking layers of bud.


Well...we're all gunna see!


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## Mohican (Aug 10, 2015)

I am up in Woodland Hills this morning. Anybody live up here?


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## sky rocket (Aug 10, 2015)

Looking good hotd. Any plans of defoliation soon? I remember a company about 2-3 years ago was selling a system like yours. They had systems that would go from 48-96 sites and it would fit in a gorrila 5x5 tent. I should have jumped on it. And no it wasn't the coliseum. Lol


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## Alaric (Aug 10, 2015)

Ditto the auto pilot. 

You could add a float valve to your existing rez. Add a large tank elevated higher than your rez ( I added a float valve to the large tank so I would't hear that splash- splash sound when filling.
A valve I really like came from Agri-supply (last time $30)---called a ro-jo valve.

Hey S, the c99 I grew once came from Mr Soul via Heavens Stairway---- looked nothing like the one in the pic and very close in yield to NL5. 

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 10, 2015)

sky rocket said:


> Looking good hotd. Any plans of defoliation soon? I remember a company about 2-3 years ago was selling a system like yours. They had systems that would go from 48-96 sites and it would fit in a gorrila 5x5 tent. I should have jumped on it. And no it wasn't the coliseum. Lol


I've been doing a little here and there the whole time. Will probably do some more soon to clear up a little space and get some more light in there.


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## hayrolld (Aug 10, 2015)

*Hey Hot Diggity, glad to hear the system is running well now. The plants are looking good! I would not judge any strain based off of Female Seeds version of it. I tried a couple things from them, and both were very dissapointing. I really like the C99 bx from Mosca, had a couple good phenos including a fast pineapple smelling one. Probably would still be a little bushy to run easily in your setup. Once you build an octagon you are happy with, we are going to have to get you cloning. That way once you find a plant that grows and smokes the way you want, you can make as many copies as you need for each grow.*


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 10, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> *Hey Hot Diggity, glad to hear the system is running well now. The plants are looking good! I would not judge any strain based off of Female Seeds version of it. I tried a couple things from them, and both were very dissapointing. I really like the C99 bx from Mosca, had a couple good phenos including a fast pineapple smelling one. Probably would still be a little bushy to run easily in your setup. Once you build an octagon you are happy with, we are going to have to get you cloning. That way once you find a plant that grows and smokes the way you want, you can make as many copies as you need for each grow.*


Ya know, longer term you're probably right. I was hoping to be able to create my own fem seeds but the thought of finding a couple of awesome pheno's to make mom's out of is probably the way to go.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 10, 2015)

On a side note, I was able to add some more fresh water to my rez and got the EC down to 1.0. In a few days we'll see if that helps.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 10, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Ditto the auto pilot.
> 
> You could add a float valve to your existing rez. Add a large tank elevated higher than your rez ( I added a float valve to the large tank so I would't hear that splash- splash sound when filling.
> A valve I really like came from Agri-supply (last time $30)---called a ro-jo valve.
> ...


Thats a really good idea. Gunna get to reading to learn about these.


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## Alaric (Aug 10, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Thats a really good idea. Gunna get to reading to learn about these.


Another feature I accidentally discovered. Say you have a 44 gallon garbage can filled with 35 gallons elevated above the lower rez------your pump is running continuously feeding your plants----T into the feed line coming from the pump and put a valve going to the upper tank (I just used 1/2" poly) By doing this you're constantly recirculating your full volume of nutes through the tubes. Just make sure the nutes being bleed back to the upper rez is less than the amount being fed to the lower rez.

Over in the hydro forum I'm about to get into the design I used (An outlaw's journal).

A~~~


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## Don Geno (Aug 13, 2015)

Good stuff brother this 12/12 experiment gave me an idea of testing a 12/12 from seed in a 10gallon smart pot just to see how much space the roots will take up in short amount of time


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 13, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 63*
*Flowering Day 30*

Things are going great still. The girls are really starting to put out some flowers. I am very impressed with all 3 HSO strains so far. Not too much to say for this update so here are some pics.


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## akhiymjames (Aug 13, 2015)

HSO gear is fire. One of the few fem seed makers I really like. I figured you would like them glad you got them and are loving them. Always heard good things about the C99 from Female but those ladies are outta control lol hope they turn out ok for you. Keep killin it bro love it I know you love the seed thing but if you found a god pheno and cloned the hell outta it you would really killin in this system. Clone veg for a week then flower plus you could devote all that cash you spending on beans into the grow room more and nutes


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## DirtyNerd (Aug 13, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 3 Update
> Day 63
> Flowering Day 30*
> 
> ...


Oh my the frosty is coming in nicely things are looking amazing so glad this system is working out for you sure there will be bugs in a beta but once you iron them out this will be a well oiled machine great job can't wait to see them in full swell mode it's going to be unreal


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 14, 2015)

Minor update on the next chapter. After much deliberation, the specs have been decided. The octagon will be reduced from 75 inches in diameter to 70 inches measured from the center of each net pot. There will be 4 rows spaced 14" apart...an increase from the current 11.5". Each side will have 3 plants...a decrease from the current 5. The 8th side of the octagon is a little up in air somewhat. I would very much like to be able to walk into the octagon and not be forced to crawl under. Being able to walk thru will result in fewer plants as well as alternating water direction which I would very much like to avoid.

At any rate, stay tuned. Will be running only 1 strain...Skunk #1. The specs call for a minimum of 84 plants. In the event the 8th side is able to accommodate plants then this number will likely jump to 92 plants. Will be using two 600 Watt lights like I have them now. Seeds will be germinated under the current lights approximately 10 days before this chapter is due to be harvested. The plan is to harvest, disassemble the current octagon, perform assembly of the new octagon and get the seedlings into it all within a couple day window. My germination and submerged root approach will be vastly superior this time...fingers crossed as it is critical they all enter the octagon at roughly the same time.


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## cc2012 (Aug 14, 2015)

Sounds like a Plan HdS, been thinking about 8th side, would be a pain, but like you say means less Plants Alternating Water direction if not...hmm No way to Raise up Octagon? so you could crouch under slightly. ..

How You gonna hang the bulbs next time(still Vertical i know)..what about one of these.. ..







Of Course You wouldn't have the Reflector on, for 360 spread..but you could blow cool air through from the bottom and out the top Hanging it Vertical as You have the bulbs anyway... just an idea, you won't burn yourself or plants.. just a thought, though you do lose they say about 10% of Lumen output..what ave you from using a CoolTube..

atb


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## Alaric (Aug 14, 2015)

cc2012 said:


> Sounds like a Plan HdS, been thinking about 8th side, would be a pain, but like you say means less Plants Alternating Water direction if not...hmm No way to Raise up Octagon? so you could crouch under slightly. ..
> 
> How You gonna hang the bulbs next time(still Vertical i know)..what about one of these.. ..
> 
> ...


Hey cc,

If that's the hydrofarm 5' tube-----I've used it without the reflector.

Real pain to remove the sockets for bulb replacement and *trying* to clean it the glass-----my arm too short to reach the center.

For those reasons alone ----not to mention took three tries to get two non broken during shipment.

I would opt for two shorter cool tubes with ducting.

Also, the things cost around $300 us

 

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 14, 2015)

cc2012 said:


> Sounds like a Plan HdS, been thinking about 8th side, would be a pain, but like you say means less Plants Alternating Water direction if not...hmm No way to Raise up Octagon? so you could crouch under slightly. ..
> 
> How You gonna hang the bulbs next time(still Vertical i know)..what about one of these.. ..
> 
> ...


I'd like to avoid using that for the mentioned 10-15% loss. I don't think I'm going to have any problems with heat...particularly as I enter the fall and early winter months for the next go around. These things are great, conceptually, but I've taken enough light readings now that I just don't think I need it.


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## Mohican (Aug 14, 2015)

Could you make it a clamshell and have it on wheels? Then you could open it to work on it and close it for operation.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 14, 2015)

cc2012 said:


> Sounds like a Plan HdS, been thinking about 8th side, would be a pain, but like you say means less Plants Alternating Water direction if not...hmm No way to Raise up Octagon? so you could crouch under slightly. ..
> 
> How You gonna hang the bulbs next time(still Vertical i know)..what about one of these.. ..
> 
> ...


I could certainly raise it up. I'm currently using cinder blocks for the feet to rest on and they are 16" tall. I could another 1/2 block...don't see any problems doing that.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 14, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Could you make it a clamshell and have it on wheels? Then you could open it to work on it and close it for operation.


I've put some thought into that and the best I've come up with is to make the octagon in 2 parts. The 2 parts would have have to operate independent of one another. Separate feed lines, separate drain lines, etc. Not a biggie and can certainly be done. The biggest risk for me now is in how the thing is constructed. With no framing, I just would not feel comfortable doing this. The octagon is stable but I don't know how well it would move...there is risk of it tipping over. To put the thing on wheels and make it so it could open and close...I would really need to frame out a skeleton for it.


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## hayrolld (Aug 14, 2015)

Hot Diggity, I have a different idea for the eight side. If you change directions between the bottom and second to bottom (and the second and third tube if you don't mind the extra direction change / loss of planting space) you would have a mini doorway. You would have to duck, but not crawl.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 14, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> Hot Diggity, I have a different idea for the eight side. If you change directions between the bottom and second to bottom (and the second and third tube if you don't mind the extra direction change / loss of planting space) you would have a mini doorway. You would have to duck, but not crawl.


This would work...almost like a cave door feeling. Speaking to the directional water change...the only reason I wanted to avoid that was due to leveling issues. The current setup is not 100% level and when the water moves in both directions, I lose the ability to shim a side. But yes, perhaps the compromise is exactly as you said. Good idea and thanks.


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## hayrolld (Aug 14, 2015)

Thanks, glad to help. If you are going to put in dams at the end of the levels like Sativied said a while back, you should be able to decline each whole section more. Levelling might still be a pain, but should make it a little easier to avoid spots that aren't flowing


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## Thronez (Aug 14, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Summary Results*
> Average Yield across 27 plants and 18 strains: 12.1 Grams. If we exclude the G13 that was taken early due to nanners, the average becomes 12.4 grams
> 
> Smallest Yield: Early G13 @4.8 grams. If we exclude her, smallest was 5.4 grams followed by 8.5 grams.
> ...


I know this is old, but I'm just seeing this....I'm so glad I found this thread. I can't believe the strain I was going to use (critical kush) was one of the lowest yeilders! I'm also starting a sog , and Ive did a bunch of research on the best dense single cola strains with highest yeild, and I thought ck was a win!....that just goes to show, no research or recommendations or verbal reviews are better than an actual visual grow review from seed...I really appreciate this yeild comp....the funny thing is, northern lights was my initial pick based on it being one of top 3 favorite tasting buds. But I chose ck based on what I've read. Glad I saw this before I actually started everything. Lol.

P.s. hey and just to be sure, this was all done under 1x600w light???


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 14, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> Thanks, glad to help. If you are going to put in dams at the end of the levels like Sativied said a while back, you should be able to decline each whole section more. Levelling might still be a pain, but should make it a little easier to avoid spots that aren't flowing


I've come up with a clever solution for this (maybe). I have not decided the exact orientation but here is an example of how each row would end and then transition to the next row.
   


So I'll have a little bit of flexibility regarding how deep the water can be before it escapes. I actually somewhat disagree with @Sativied on this one (Probably the ONLY time I've ever disagreed). Had I run dams or something along the lines of this in the current setup, it would have been terrible...possibly catastrophic. I keep coming back to the leveling issue. If the thing is not perfectly level *and* the water is bi-directional (which is exactly what I have at the moment), I'll have a section (or an entire row) that is downhill and the water stays shallow. Once it hits the next row though, the water is now travelling the opposite direction...uphill. The bottom portion of the tube with water running uphill is that the depth is very deep. My current octagon is only out of level a small amount but the effect is dramatic. On downhill runs, the water is perhaps 1 inch deep...no more. On the uphill, it gets as high as about 3 1/4" deep in places. This has led to a few problems. The most obvious...possible overflow. When I connected a 2nd feed line to increase the flow rate, these high spots overflowed almost immediately...not good.


So there next pictures are the basic 3 options that I'm looking at:
  

The 1st and 3rd option allow me to keep the water flowing in the same direction. Picture 2 would be alternating. Alternating would take up less space and allow for a few more plants. It would also allow me to make the transitions on the 8th side and leave room to walk in. Options 1 and 3 would not.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 14, 2015)

Thronez said:


> I know this is old, but I'm just seeing this....I'm so glad I found this thread. I can't believe the strain I was going to use (critical kush) was one of the lowest yeilders! I'm also starting a sog , and Ive did a bunch of research on the best dense single cola strains with highest yeild, and I thought ck was a win!....that just goes to show, no research or recommendations or verbal reviews are better than an actual visual grow review from seed...I really appreciate this yeild comp....the funny thing is, northern lights was my initial pick based on it being one of top 3 favorite tasting buds. But I chose ck based on what I've read. Glad I saw this before I actually started everything. Lol.
> 
> P.s. hey and just to be sure, this was all done under 1x600w light???


Yup, Chapter #1 was done under a single 600 Watt. Almost entirely with a metal halide! Chapter 2 was also done under a 600 until the very end when I brought a 2nd 600 on board. Dont' pay chapter 2 any attention...it was a colossal failure. This current chapter started out with a single 600, then moved to a single 1000 and is now (2) 600's.

Regarding all of the data I collected from Chapter 1...you have to take all of that with a grain of salt. I did not have a large enough sample size of any strain to be able to make definitive conclusions. Maybe Critical Kush is a rock star strain and I just got unlucky with a dud. The exact opposite happened with Chronic Thunder. I got 2 killer plants, invested a ton of money in more Chronic Thunder seeds only to learn that the strain is total shit...I must have gotten super lucky with the 2 seeds I had originally.

But hey...glad you're here and pull up a chair!


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## Thronez (Aug 14, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Yup, Chapter #1 was done under a single 600 Watt. Almost entirely with a metal halide! Chapter 2 was also done under a 600 until the very end when I brought a 2nd 600 on board. Dont' pay chapter 2 any attention...it was a colossal failure. This current chapter started out with a single 600, then moved to a single 1000 and is now (2) 600's.
> 
> Regarding all of the data I collected from Chapter 1...you have to take all of that with a grain of salt. I did not have a large enough sample size of any strain to be able to make definitive conclusions. Maybe Critical Kush is a rock star strain and I just got unlucky with a dud. The exact opposite happened with Chronic Thunder. I got 2 killer plants, invested a ton of money in more Chronic Thunder seeds only to learn that the strain is total shit...I must have gotten super lucky with the 2 seeds I had originally.
> 
> But hey...glad you're here and pull up a chair!


Yeah, I've only read chapter #1, but I am reading the rest as we speak. Its a long thread, but very worth it.

And yea, I understand. Sometimes its just a shitty batch. I wanted to only focus on one strain, but I'm thinking to go with two, just to be on the safe side now.

And I've already got my chair with a years worth of popcorn.


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## Mohican (Aug 14, 2015)

You could run sprayers in the tubes and then you could have better control over water delivery.

If the hinge of the clamshell is strongly anchored, then you can open and close without any tipping issues. Your feed and drain lines could terminate at the hinge and join together with a T.


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## hayrolld (Aug 14, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I've come up with a clever solution for this (maybe). I have not decided the exact orientation but here is an example of how each row would end and then transition to the next row.
> View attachment 3479139 View attachment 3479140 View attachment 3479141
> 
> 
> ...


Those look like they would be easier to deal with than your current elbows.

Maybe I am not following something, but why can't each ring be levelled separately? If you do that, you can change directions more easily.

I get what you are saying about the overflows, I felt like the dams should be small - just high enough to keep a small amount of water in the bottom even with a decline.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 14, 2015)

Mohican said:


> You could run sprayers in the tubes and then you could have better control over water delivery.
> 
> If the hinge of the clamshell is strongly anchored, then you can open and close without any tipping issues. Your feed and drain lines could terminate at the hinge and join together with a T.


Yeah, for sure. It's too late in the game for me to try something completely new. I really would need to run small prototypes to figure that out. I'm going to stick with this for now, focus on keeping the water moving in a single direction and just suck it up and crawl under when I need to.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 14, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> Those look like they would be easier to deal with than your current elbows.
> 
> Maybe I am not following something, but why can't each ring be levelled separately? If you do that, you can change directions more easily.
> 
> I get what you are saying about the overflows, I felt like the dams should be small - just high enough to keep a small amount of water in the bottom even with a decline.


Ya know what...they can. The pieces I'm using have 4 click settings so I would have a little bit of flexibility in this regard. I would be very worried if I only got 1 or 2 clicks though...could lead to stability problems. Here are the pieces I'm referring to:

 

If you click the image and look very closely, each piece snaps into the other piece. This snap is about 1 inch and there are 4 click positions. So, it's not a lot but should be more than enough. As long as I can get my cinder blocks pretty level and my first row is good, this may be enough to tweak as needed.


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## Sativied (Aug 14, 2015)

Ideally it (current setup that is) would go like this (exaggerated example)
 
I know exactly what you mean with a small difference in level potentially leading to big problems, surely even more with longer tubes but I had one side of a 4' tube lower itself (during the cycle by weight of plants, poor construction...) and while it only seemed a little, that lower corner was nearly filled to the top. The dam system is specifically used to set a steady minimum level throughout the entire tube, not to limit the max or prevent overflow by other factors. It results in more nutrient solution being in the tubes at any given time making suboptimal leveling more obvious or worse, an actually problem.


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## Sparadical (Aug 16, 2015)

So after 5 days and reading 82 pages all I have to say is wow, what a great journal, entertaining and educational great job hot diggity sog.

Now let's all do the hot dog dance  


If you could take a look at my journal I'd love to hear your thoughts! 

Thanks again


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 16, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 66*
*Flowering Day 33*

Things are going great. I've been running an HPS on top and a MH on bottom for 3 days now. Kind of just curious but I'm going to be going back to dual HPS until around day 50 or so and then reevaluate. The C99's are starting to surprise me a little...they're really starting to look like kind of nice...lol.

The Chronic Thunders are lagging but are finally at a point where I can show a picture without being embarrassed 

*First, a couple of group shots:
  


Next up...some C99's
 
 



Sour Blueberry
 



Blue Dream
 
 



Chronic Thunder
 
 

*
Pictures of Blueberry Headband did not come out well so I'll get better pics next time. BBH is doing quite well...very resinous.
Not much else to report on. Been running EC 1.0 with PH fluctuating between 6.2 and 5.8. I no longer add PH down at all. Just equal parts of A&B and fresh water and that's it. Maintenance is like....nothing. Complete auto-pilot.
*


*


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## Sativied (Aug 16, 2015)

Really nice to see things are going so well for you. 

Beautiful dense frosty layer on the BD and SB as well. Just shows no special additives or boosters are needed, just the basic essential elements so they remain healthy and function optimal and can reach their genetic potential. I already look forward to your smoke reports.


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## Mohican (Aug 16, 2015)

They are all looking great HDS! The frost is building hard on them!


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## akhiymjames (Aug 17, 2015)

Looking killer bro seems like you got everything dialed in perfect now awesome shit. You can tell by the plant they really look happy and healthy and the frost is amazing. I already knew which one that was before I saw the name I grew that seed and it was the same for me. Smelled like haze and blueberry syrup. Amazing flavor and great potency on it. Had clones of her but she died so only got to experience once but you will love her I guarantee it. Keep killin bro


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## Mr.Head (Aug 18, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 3 Update
> Day 66
> Flowering Day 33*
> 
> ...


holy hell man!  That's impressive. Good job!


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## ganja361 (Aug 19, 2015)

After a couple nights of reading I just finished 82 pages. For not growing for so long you sure seem to have everything well handled. Props to your ingenuity and abilities. You have solely inspired me to follow some of your guidelines in my next grow. Here in TX temps are finally getting out of the 100s so I'll be able to start a grow soon. Yesterday was 108 with 80% humidity. Smh. Anyway congratulations on your successes. Can't wait to see how this crop comes out.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 19, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 69*
*Flowering Day 36*

I decided to do a full reservoir change. Not because I felt that I had to but I just wanted to. It had been over 2 weeks since the last full change.
I kept this nutrient mixture very simple. Equal parts of A&B, ZONE and PH Down. I am no longer using GH PH Down and have switched to 2 different products...neither of which that have citric acid. During flowering (now), I am using Botanicare PH Down which is 29% phosphoric acid. Moving away from nitric acid during flowering just makes sense to me. This has a 0-15-0 ratio btw. The girls continue to look overfed to me so this week we are running at 0.9 EC.

I'm going to try and start doing updates more frequently and focus on a different strain for each update. Today we're doing Blue Dream as well as a group shot.


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## Mohican (Aug 21, 2015)

How does it smell in there now?


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## cc2012 (Aug 25, 2015)

Hows it going HdS, as Mo said bet its starting to smell gorgeous in GR now 

atb


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 25, 2015)

Going good guys. I've done 2 photo shoots over the last week and none of the pictures are coming out well. I think something is wrong with the camera...lol. Of course it could be the operator. I'll work on getting a proper update soon. Things are still going well.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 27, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 77*
*Flowering Day 44*

It's been 8 days since my last update so I apologize for that. I've been spending a lot of time preparing for the next chapter and we're less than 2 weeks away from getting it started so that's pretty cool. These plants have continued to exhibit leaf curl as well as burned leaf tips. I'm really just not sure what to make of it. Switching from Blue Planet Nutrients to Aqua Flakes did not really seem to make a lot of difference. The only item worth noting was the seem to be getting too much nitrogen with Aqua Flakes. Maybe these strains are just really finicky with nutrients...not sure. Long story short, a few days ago I switched back to Blue Planet. Not because I am in any way unhappy with Aqua Flakes, but Aqua Flakes is a simple 2 part A&B and the instructions clearly state to give equal portions. With BPN, I have more flexibility. So what I've begun doing is feeding at about 20% strength and I let this fluctuate a little. I've been going as high as 830 PPM's and as low as 640 PPM which is basically 0.9 to 1.2 EC. Letting PH also fluctuate between 5.6 and 6.7. I also stopped using ZONE. I'm just trying to gain as much useful information as I can going into the next round and see if I can find anything that might be causing some of the minor issues. The last thing I will be trying is to install a new RO system and run my well water thru that. I suppose my water could be the reason.

At any rate, I'm going to share a bunch of pictures. 1/2 of them color corrected and 1/2 of them as they were shot. I had little confidence in these coming out nice (and they only came out marginal) so I did not note what each and every picture was of.

In order of Left to Right we have:
Chronic Thunder
Blueberry Headband
Blue Dream
Sour Blueberry
C99

The C99's have kind of taken over a lot of the space. I actually had to kill one too.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 27, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 77*
*Flowering Day 44 - Continued*

C99 is front and Sour Blueberry kind of off to the side.


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## Mr.Head (Aug 27, 2015)

Looking great man ! That must be a pleasure to look at in the morning


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 27, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 77*
*Flowering Day 44 - Continued*

Misc Closeups - Original (Not color corrected)


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 27, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 77*
*Flowering Day 44 - Continued*

Misc closeups color corrected


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 27, 2015)

Mr.Head said:


> Looking great man ! That must be a pleasure to look at in the morning


Thanks man, it sure is. I'm eager for them to finish so I can get the next round going. Sure hope they can finish string. The quality looks to be great but the yield is probably going to be sub-par. But again, I have no experience with any of these strains except the Chronic Thunder and that strain is just sheit.


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## Alaric (Aug 27, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Thanks man, it sure is. I'm eager for them to finish so I can get the next round going. Sure hope they can finish string. The quality looks to be great but the yield is probably going to be sub-par. But again, I have no experience with any of these strains except the Chronic Thunder and that strain is just sheit.


Hey HDS,

Looks good considering loss of light. Are you planning to complete the octagon next run----if not, I believe you'd be better off yield wise with reflectors, light rail mover and a flat canopy----re-configure ( I assume you don't want to hear that).

Little bit of burn on the leaf tips-----which I never minded, just let me know not to go any stronger.

Let's hope for a very surprising strong finish.

A~~~


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 27, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Hey HDS,
> 
> Looks good considering loss of light. Are you planning to complete the octagon next run----if not, I believe you'd be better off yield wise with reflectors, light rail mover and a flat canopy----re-configure ( I assume you don't want to hear that).
> 
> ...


There is certainly a lot of lost light right now. I'm working on a cap/dome at the moment and hung up a sample piece and I think it's going to work pretty well. The new octagon will be 7 sided. Decided I wanted to be able to walk thru. So a lot less light loss with 7 sides vs 5 and then with the domed cap it should be alright I think.


----------



## Alaric (Aug 27, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> The new octagon will be 7 sided. Decided I wanted to be able to walk thru.


^^Wise move. 

After this run you'll have a gauge to determine approximately how the 7 sider will produce ( you probably already knew that).

A~~~


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 27, 2015)

This is a crude example of what I'll be doing for the cap/dome.
 

I'll use chain (or something else) to mimic the shape of the octagon only make it much smaller. The new octagon has an outer diameter of roughly 74 inches so perhaps the chain octagon on the ceiling might be 30 inches...just guessing. I'll cut a piece of reflectix equal to the circumference and wrap it around the whole thing. Using light hangers I can then suspend it and will have this nice shape to it.

Here is a shot of what the new octagon rows look like.


I've built 4 rows but not sure yet if I'm going to run 3 or 4 rows. The way the rows will connect is pretty sweet. You'll see soon.


----------



## Alaric (Aug 27, 2015)

If that reflective material is what I think it is----I love it. Enough rigidity to hold its shape----but easy to work with.

How I used it in my veg room.
 

A~~~


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 27, 2015)

Yup. Looks to be the exact same stuff. The stuff I have is called Reflectix...basically a radiant barrier material. Rigid enough to hold its shape as you said...its nothing like mylar.


----------



## hayrolld (Aug 27, 2015)

Looks like the next iteration of the octagon is gonna be great. I would not assume your yield for this run is going to be terrible. Those buds look like they have a lot of swelling left to do, especially if you stagger the harvest.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 27, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> Looks like the next iteration of the octagon is gonna be great. I would not assume your yield for this run is going to be terrible. Those buds look like they have a lot of swelling left to do, especially if you stagger the harvest.


Thanks man. Hopefully it will be an alright harvest.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 28, 2015)

Just a quick update. It's been about a week since switching back to BPN nutes and no ZONE. No real signs of improvement. I've decided I will empty the rez, go back to simple Aqua Flakes A&B with ZONE and simply continue to lower the strength. I'm going to target 550 PPM and it should fluctuate up to the low 600's as water is consumed. See if this makes much difference.

Update: Just some notes.
30 gallons of water. 2 ml per gallon of A&B. 30 ml of ZONE. 23 ml of PH down.
Sitting at 550 PPM or 0.785 EC. PH is 6.7 but will take 24 hours to really kick in and get in range.
Blue Lab says my tap water is 270 PPM so this is only 280 PPM of nutes. Seems insanely low but whatever...I'll keep my usual close eye on them.


----------



## Sativied (Aug 28, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Blue Lab says my tap water is 270 PPM so this is only 280 PPM of nutes. Seems insanely low but whatever...


I ended running roughly 460, tap 180, so 280 PPM of nutes. That wasn't that very low run in which I used 100ppm in total less than that, partly from diluting the tap water with demi water. You just build an efficient system with the available nutes in the solution bumping into roots frequently enough for the plant to do its thing. It becomes normal after a while and then it just seems most others are running insanely high.  I'd probably get an RO filter to reduce the ppm if it came out 270 though.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 29, 2015)

Just a quick update. For the first time this entire grow, some of the curling of the leaves are starting to uncurl. 550 PPM's @ 6.3 currently. Interesting.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 30, 2015)

Another minor update. Did the 1st top-off this morning with 5 gallons. The PPM's had dropped to 510. 1st time I've ever seen the PPM's drop. I stuck with 2 ml's per gallon of A&B and PPM's are now 570.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 30, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 80*
*Flowering Day 47*

Things are going quite well. Starting to have some problems with plants falling/leaning because of the cola weight. I'm tying things up as needed. Nothing has really started to swell that much. The next week should be pretty fun to watch. I've been running the hortilux blue MH on the bottom and the hortilux super hps on top for several days now. The bottom of the canopy is getting 100% MH. The top is getting 100% HPS and the middle is getting a nice mix.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 30, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update - Continued*
*Day 80*
*Flowering Day 47*
*
          *


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 30, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update - Continued*
*Day 80*
*Flowering Day 47*
*
        *


----------



## Mohican (Aug 30, 2015)

Looks great! So many different flower structures.

How does the room smell?

What is the blue thing in the back with the chains?


----------



## Joedank (Aug 30, 2015)

Sativied said:


> I ended running roughly 460, tap 180, so 280 PPM of nutes. That wasn't that very low run in which I used 100ppm in total less than that, partly from diluting the tap water with demi water. You just build an efficient system with the available nutes in the solution bumping into roots frequently enough for the plant to do its thing. It becomes normal after a while and then it just seems most others are running insanely high.  I'd probably get an RO filter to reduce the ppm if it came out 270 though.


this is quality advice for any hydro system . 
coupled with this gem :
Will be following this philosophy...
If your PPMs rise and PH rises nutrients are to strong.
If PPMs drop and PH rises, nutrients are to weak.
If your PPM drops and PH are basically stable then you have found the right mix for your plants.
your pretty set IMO


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 30, 2015)

Joedank said:


> this is quality advice for any hydro system .
> coupled with this gem :
> Will be following this philosophy...
> If your PPMs rise and PH rises nutrients are to strong.
> ...


What I was seeing before was my PPM's would rise as water was being consumed but my PH would tend to drop as well.
What I'm seeing now is PPM's dropped but PH remained steady.

When my PPM's were rising and the PH was dropping, that would make a lot of sense to me that the nutes were too strong. Since the nutes drop PH, the higher the concentration the lower the PH would go. Sound reasonable?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 30, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Looks great! So many different flower structures.
> 
> How does the room smell?
> 
> What is the blue thing in the back with the chains?


Ya know...the room does not seem to smell nearly as much as in the past. Maybe because they are not in a tent? Maybe because the air is being exchanged pretty aggressively? Don't get me wrong, it smells lovely. The C99's seem to be dominating the overall room smell. They went from having a really sweet smell to a mixture of sweet and musty now.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 30, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Looks great! So many different flower structures.
> 
> How does the room smell?
> 
> What is the blue thing in the back with the chains?


Missed your question...sorry. Those are how I hang dry. Got 5 of them hung up waiting to be used 
Here is a picture:

 

They are quite nice and only $7 a piece. I've had no problems with them not being able to hold heavy colas.


----------



## Mr.Head (Aug 30, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Missed your question...sorry. Those are how I hang dry. Got 5 of them hung up waiting to be used
> Here is a picture:
> 
> View attachment 3489258
> ...


damn that's slick. Ordering.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 30, 2015)

Mr.Head said:


> damn that's slick. Ordering.


They are pretty nice. Got mine on Amazon. They are called: 
*Whitmor 6171-844 Clip and Drip Hanger with 26 Clips*


----------



## Mr.Head (Aug 30, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> They are pretty nice. Got mine on Amazon. They are called:
> *Whitmor 6171-844 Clip and Drip Hanger with 26 Clips*


sweeeT! They are on Amazon.ca  that never happens. Makes it so much easier  11.99 here but that's a steal compared to the fabric racks.

I hate how the mesh racks square off my buds. I like to hang dry. 

Thanks man, this is going to make things easier.


----------



## Mohican (Aug 30, 2015)

No worries - proper equipment you got there! Can't wait to see it full of those flowers 

Which of your girls is the stickiest? 

I gave away my C99. I am not sure how it grew out for him.



My sativa girls are finally flowering!








Cheers,
Mo


----------



## Mohican (Aug 30, 2015)

I have seen those at the 99 cent store too - might try there.

Here are some of my hanging methods:


















Cheers,
Mo


----------



## Sativied (Aug 30, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Ya know...the room does not seem to smell nearly as much as in the past. Maybe because they are not in a tent? Maybe because the air is being exchanged pretty aggressively?


Happy plants don't smell is what @RM3 would say. Regardless, or additional, yes growing in a room yet not using it entirely makes a big difference in terms of smell compared to cramping plants in a tent/closet. And does not seem to affect the dried product.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 30, 2015)

Mohican said:


> No worries - proper equipment you got there! Can't wait to see it full of those flowers
> 
> Which of your girls is the stickiest?
> 
> ...


Those look fantastic MO. I wanna see them when they are done but before you cut em down!

Regarding stickiness, no contest. Hands down, all 3 HSO strains win in this category. Of the three, it's a close tie for 1st between blue dream and sour blueberry. Sour blueberry probably takes 1st but the bud size on the blue dream is far superior to sour blueberry. Blueberry headband is the worst of the 3 from a stickiness standpoint but is still orders of magnitudes better than the C99 and CT.


----------



## Sativied (Aug 30, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Another minor update. Did the 1st top-off this morning with 5 gallons. The PPM's had dropped to 510. 1st time I've ever seen the PPM's drop. I stuck with 2 ml's per gallon of A&B and PPM's are now 570.


Sounds good!

Hey, those leaves that uncurled, those were clawed right? Like curling under and not up. I have a cross that does it too and I'm really interested in figuring out what it is. It's not high N. At least not directly. I think indirectly perhaps, I think it's a form of PMS (plant moisture stress, see Uncle Ben's topic on that). Lower ppm is higher DO and easier on the roots, improving transpiration and possibly prevents and even fixes the clawing. 

I got a plant now that does it on one side only which got me scratching my head...


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 30, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Sounds good!
> 
> Hey, those leaves that uncurled, those were clawed right? Like curling under and not up. I have a cross that does it too and I'm really interested in figuring out what it is. It's not high N. At least not directly. I think indirectly perhaps, I think it's a form of PMS (plant moisture stress, see Uncle Ben's topic on that). Lower ppm is higher DO and easier on the roots, improving transpiration and possibly prevents and even fixes the clawing.
> 
> ...


That is very interesting. Yes...clawing is what ive been experiencing.


----------



## Sativied (Aug 30, 2015)

Addendum... On another plant I also have it on some branches / small budsites that are covered by large fans, while branches not covered, i.e. in direct light, are normal. I don't think it's the light itself, but again indirectly affecting transpiration. So I think it requires some additional dialing in whether it's nutes or temps or a combination of factors. Clearly some strains are more susceptible to it than others.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Aug 30, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Addendum... On another plant I also have it on some branches / small budsites that are covered by large fans, while branches not covered, i.e. in direct light, are normal. I don't think it's the light itself, but again indirectly affecting transpiration. So I think it requires some additional dialing in whether it's nutes or temps or a combination of factors. Clearly some strains are more susceptible to it than others.


I'm going to spend timing studying mine and see if I can find some of the same things that you're explaining.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 4, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 85*
*Flowering Day 52*

Things are going well. Running PPM's between 500 and 570. It's looking like these girls might need to go more than 60 days which is not ideal. I have a pretty tight time table right now and Chapter 4 seeds are getting germinated on Monday.

On to some pics!


----------



## cc2012 (Sep 4, 2015)

Looking Good HdS, Well better than good.. You going to be busy come Chop!! and quite Happy I would've thought.

One of them 3 x Autos I've got under 12/12 is surprising the Hell outta Me!! I won't go on about it here, but here's a quick Pic..





Anyhoos enough about that, I can't wait till you start the next Chapter tbh, mind I bet a few peeps are quite eager to see your next Adventure..

atb


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 4, 2015)

cc2012 said:


> Looking Good HdS, Well better than good.. You going to be busy come Chop!! and quite Happy I would've thought.
> 
> One of them 3 x Autos I've got under 12/12 is surprising the Hell outta Me!! I won't go on about it here, but here's a quick Pic..
> 
> ...


Those are looking right as rain!


----------



## Alaric (Sep 5, 2015)

Hey HDS,

Don't know why I don't get an alert is these journals when updated?

Are you satisfied with the way things have turned so far?

If I could say that was my first hydro run-----not yes----but *HELL YES!!
*
And will hopefully improve each run-----keep up the good work.

A~~~


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 5, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Hey HDS,
> 
> Don't know why I don't get an alert is these journals when updated?
> 
> ...


I definitely am. Looking forward to some tweaks and a single strain for the next chapter.


----------



## Alaric (Sep 5, 2015)

Mohican said:


> I have seen those at the 99 cent store too - might try there.
> 
> Here are some of my hanging methods:
> 
> ...


Hey Mo-----I'm envious.

Wish I could grow in my back yard like that and when I got hot just take dip in the pool.

Looks like you have a nice home-----do you ever worry about getting ripped off?

A~~~


----------



## bf80255 (Sep 6, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 3 Update
> Day 85
> Flowering Day 52*
> 
> ...


I want to give this another "like" lol


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 8, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Begins!
Day 2*

98 Skunk #1 Fem Seeds went into rockwool yesterday morning. I'll be running 84 plants in the new 7 sided octagon. These will remain here for up to 14 days. The reservoir underneath will be filled with water so the seedlings will be DWC style prior to moving into the octagon.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 8, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update*
*Day 89*
*Flowering Day 56*

Girls are doing well still. Did a full rez change yesterday...will be the last one. Running @530 PPM at the moment. I'm going to estimate about 1 more week remaining.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 8, 2015)

*Chapter 3 Update - Continued*
*Day 89*
*Flowering Day 56*
*
        *


----------



## Alaric (Sep 8, 2015)

Super---- HDS,

I like to take a sampling of buds at different stages when they get that far along to compare the smoke characteristics.
(and in a hurry to try any new strain)

Ahhhh------that first article smoke.

I hope I'm wrong -------I guesstimate between 2.0-3.0 lbs.

A~~~


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 8, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Super---- HDS,
> 
> I like to take a sampling of buds at different stages when they get that far along to compare the smoke characteristics.
> (and in a hurry to try any new strain)
> ...


I would be thrilled if it ends up being that much!


----------



## Mohican (Sep 9, 2015)

I worry all the time @Alaric !


----------



## drudigger (Sep 9, 2015)

Dam this is the most amazing thing Ive read on here, thanks for all the knowledge and different techniques.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 9, 2015)

drudigger said:


> Dam this is the most amazing thing Ive read on here, thanks for all the knowledge and different techniques.


Haha...really? Very kind words...thank you.


----------



## drudigger (Sep 9, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Haha...really? Very kind words...thank you.


Yea, I'm really excited to see your weigh in on the finish, and everyone chiming in with their help has been so informative for me its ridiculous, even in the beginning the post with 700ppm equaling 1ec was something i never knew before so even from the beginning this has been a very nice ride, thanks so much.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 10, 2015)

Just a quick update. I harvested a few branches today...a couple CT's, 1 blue dream and a few small C99 branches. The majority of the harvest will take place next week.

The Skunk #1's for chapter 4 are doing well. Will get some pictures of them tomorrow.

I made some significant purchases over the last few days and wanted to share them:

Ballasts: I have been running a variety of different ballasts and have decided to upgrade to Solis-Tek exclusively. What can I say...they rock. They have been the most reliable ballast out of the numerous I own.

Bulbs: Going to be doing a TON of experimenting this next chapter. I just received (2) Solis-Tek 10K Metal Halide bulbs and I put them in right before lights out in the current octagon. Good news and bad news. Good news is they are incredibly bright and the blue color is awesome. Bad news is they are HOT. Assuming I can manage temps, I will run these 10K bulbs for the remainder of chapter 3.

I also just ordered new Hortilux Super HPS bulbs as well as as Solis Tek 6K MH bulbs. My plan for chapter 4 is to run the 6K MH during veg, then the Super HPS during flower and finish the last 10 days with the 10K MH. I will probably experiment with running a super hps with a 6K MH during flowering and rotate their position every couple of days.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 20, 2015)

Hey everyone,

Sorry it has been so long since I posted updates. Chapter 3 came to a successful conclusion. I promise I will post bud pics soon. I have no idea what the final yield was but will let you know when I do.

Chapter 4 preparations are going great. The new octagon is assembled and I just did my first water test and it went great. No leaks and pretty consistent water depth in all of the tubes.
The Skunk #1 seeds are doing well. Tomorrow they will be 2 weeks old and I hope to move them into the Octagon on Thursday.

Here are some pictures of the new setup. The only major last minute change was to do 3 rows instead of 4. I kind of wimped out and was nervous that I would not have enough light for 4 rows.


----------



## Budget Buds (Sep 20, 2015)

Think it would be possible and productive to build a mini version in a 40 x 40 inch tent?? Can't wait for the bud shots  BB


----------



## Mohican (Sep 20, 2015)

Masterpiece!


----------



## Alaric (Sep 20, 2015)

Hey HDS,

Is there a reason you used the clear tubing? ------gonna get algae.

Based on your last run----are you concerned about roots clogging the small pipe between the tubes?

I hope you're very pleased with the final weight.

rock on,

A~~~


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 20, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Hey HDS,
> 
> Is there a reason you used the clear tubing? ------gonna get algae.
> 
> ...


Clear was all I could find of that size. I'll be wrapping reflectix around it...just wanted to 1st show what it looked like.


----------



## Alaric (Sep 20, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I'll be wrapping reflectix around it...just wanted to 1st show what it looked like.


Cool-----or you could use pipe insulation.

A suggestion/s:

On the lower ends of your tubes (direction of water flow) use a hole saw or something to make an opening large enough to get your hand into-----in case of root clog.

Also, if clogs become too big of a problem------you could go back to the Ls between tubes.

Have you decided how many plants and what size for next run?

A~~~


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 20, 2015)

Budget Buds said:


> Think it would be possible and productive to build a mini version in a 40 x 40 inch tent?? Can't wait for the bud shots  BB


For sure man. My only concern with that would be possibly too small. But if you did clones and not seed you could probably get away with it.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 20, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Cool-----or you could use pipe insulation.
> 
> A suggestion/s:
> 
> ...


I'm not too concerned with root clog. The drain on the first version was a 1 inch and these transitions and drain are 2 inch. The roots grew into into the 1 inch drain and extended about 2 feet but caused no noticeable issues. The clear tubing I'm using now can easily be removed and put back on. It's not siliconed or anything like that.

This run is using fewer plants and giving them much more room. 16 1/2" between each row...up from 11 1/2". 3 plants per row per side instead of 5...approx 8 inches of space between plants.


----------



## cc2012 (Sep 20, 2015)

Meanwhile down in HdS underground Laboratory the Mad Prof had bean rather busy of late.. 

Like something outta of a Sci-Fi Movie HdS, Kudos on the Build Skill.. looks pretty slick and clean..

keep expecting to see a Flux Capacitor pop up in a picture.. Roll on the Next Round!!

atb


----------



## Alaric (Sep 20, 2015)

cc2012 said:


> Meanwhile down in HdS underground Laboratory the Mad Prof had bean rather busy of late..
> 
> Like something outta of a Sci-Fi Movie HdS, Kudos on the Build Skill.. looks pretty slick and clean..
> 
> ...


That made my side hurt

A~~~


----------



## green217 (Sep 20, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Sorry it has been so long since I posted updates. Chapter 3 came to a successful conclusion. I promise I will post bud pics soon. I have no idea what the final yield was but will let you know when I do.
> 
> ...


impressive!


----------



## Alaric (Sep 20, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I'm not too concerned with root clog. The drain on the first version was a 1 inch and these transitions and drain are 2 inch. The roots grew into into the 1 inch drain and extended about 2 feet but caused no noticeable issues. The clear tubing I'm using now can easily be removed and put back on. It's not siliconed or anything like that.
> 
> This run is using fewer plants and giving them much more room. 16 1/2" between each row...up from 11 1/2". 3 plants per row per side instead of 5...approx 8 inches of space between plants.


Good-----no worries about clogs-----didn't realize those were 2". When I first saw those I wondered if they were for inspection.

IMO, good move for fewer plants----looked like a little crowed before.

A~~~


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 20, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Good-----no worries about clogs-----didn't realize those were 2". When I first saw those I wondered if they were for inspection.
> 
> IMO, good move for fewer plants----looked like a little crowed before.
> 
> A~~~


It definitely was. I started off giving them very little room and have been gradually increasing. It's been tiresome having many of the plants yield next to nothing because they get left behind. Hopefully this will be an improvement.


----------



## hayrolld (Sep 20, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> It definitely was. I started off giving them very little room and have been gradually increasing. It's been tiresome having many of the plants yield next to nothing because they get left behind. Hopefully this will be an improvement.


You have to be ruthless with pruning to run plants really close SOG style. Even knowing how they end up, it is still kinda painful to cut that much off each plant. Feels wasteful. 

The new octagon looks great. I think the larger spacing will make it easier to get light to all the plants if they have some variation in growth.


----------



## Budget Buds (Sep 20, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> For sure man. My only concern with that would be possibly too small. But if you did clones and not seed you could probably get away with it.


 No I run clones 99% of the time, I would think 5 day veg and then flop them into flower.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 30, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update*
*Day 24
*
Things are going pretty good everyone. Every spot in the Octagon has a plant but I am continuing to nurture the left over seedlings. In the event some of the plants in the octagon begin to look a little sub-par then I will replace them with available plants from the left over pile. The rate at which the roots grew (are growing) was pretty varied.

Currently running (1) 1000 Watt HPS and will stick with that for a few more weeks most likely and switch to (2) 600's.


----------



## Alaric (Sep 30, 2015)

Hey HDS,

Glad you completed the octagon 

What was the final weight from your last run?

If you can stand the heat-----I suggest two 1Ks instead of two 600s and here's why:

A 1K *without* a reflector is ~ 600 with reflector. A 600 *without *a reflector ~400 with reflector.

A~~~


----------



## Mohican (Oct 1, 2015)

Looks fkn awesome HDS!

Are they all the same strain this time?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 2, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Looks fkn awesome HDS!
> 
> Are they all the same strain this time?


Yup...All the same. Sensi Seeds Skunk #1 Feminized.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 2, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Hey HDS,
> 
> Glad you completed the octagon
> 
> ...


No weights yet man...everything is in gigantic 2.5 gallon glass jars still.


----------



## brimck325 (Oct 2, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Hey HDS,
> 
> Glad you completed the octagon
> 
> ...


i don't think this applies in a vertical grow.


----------



## Alaric (Oct 2, 2015)

brimck325 said:


> i don't think this applies in a vertical grow.


Hey brimck325,

Not sure what you mean by that? Care to explain?

A~~~


----------



## Sativied (Oct 2, 2015)

Alaric is right, roughly anyway. Even though you don't lose the light in the vertical setup, you do have less light on a given side where normally the direct light and the refelective light are combined. It's also best to start under the highest intensity, since the plants are smaller they have less leaf surface area and already get less light per plant.


----------



## Alaric (Oct 2, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Alaric is right, roughly anyway. Even though you don't lose the light in the vertical setup, you do have less light on a given side where normally the direct light and the refelective light are combined. It's also best to start under the highest intensity, since the plants are smaller they have less leaf surface area and already get less light per plant.


Hey S,

Always good to hear from you-----hope you and your garden are doing well.

You're right, those light numbers I threw out are rough taken with my light meter.

I've come to the conclusion that growing vertically or the way HDS is or the tunnel design DOES NOT increase the gram per watt yield-----only less space required.

I had delusions of grandeur (3 per 1K or even 4) by wrapping the canopy around the lights.
Oh well, live and learn (sometimes anyway).

A~~~


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 2, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Hey S,
> 
> Always good to hear from you-----hope you and your garden are doing well.
> 
> ...


Really? Damn...I've been having those same delusions...although I have not been aware they were delusions.


----------



## Sativied (Oct 2, 2015)

New setup looks great HDS. I like the transparent tubes too, I considered adding a few pieces on purpose just to be able to take a peak.



Alaric said:


> I've come to the conclusion that growing vertically or the way HDS is or the tunnel design DOES NOT increase the gram per watt yield-----only less space required.


I agree with your point in general but a slight increase in gpw is feasible. The thing is, when you run bare bulb you don't have reflector loss, i.e. the reflector itself does not reflect 100% of the light. The led guys claim up to 20% loss, so it's probably more around half of that  which is still a 10% loss. That's potentially a 10% increase in gpw, but obviously doesn't make up for using a much larger surface. A couple of dozen pages back I mentioned a few things about this too, suggesting HDS roll out the inner canopy of his octagon, convert to a flat surface to get a good idea of how much light is ideal. 

I.e. if the canopy is 3 feet high and 12 feet radius you got 36 feet to cover. 2x 600w would barely work in that case, 3 would be better. If the canopy is 4 feet high and radius is 15, 60sqft in total, then 2x 1k watt could work very nicely. Get roughly 5x5 per 1k watt normally, so two are good for 50sqft, add the lack of reflector loss and it should work nicely for 60sqft in a cylinder canopy around the bulbs.

"less space required" can result in more yield from the space you have available, but yes, generally only when adding more light to make up for spreading it out over a larger canopy. That's the key issue, the spread, the resulting ppfd is what matters most in this context. By removing the reflector you instantly reduce the ppfd drastically.


----------



## Alaric (Oct 2, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Really? Damn...I've been having those same delusions...although I have not been aware they were delusions.


Well----just think about how much fun you're having (I assume). Fun for me anyway.

If I understand correctly your space limitations (no separate veg room)? What you're doing is a good way to maximize your space. If interested, check out the link in my sig-----may give you some ideas.

I don't want to sound discouraging -------hope it turns out you prove me wrong.

I suggest focusing on yield vs space------not so much grams/watt.

A~~~


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## Alaric (Oct 2, 2015)

Sativied said:


> New setup looks great HDS. I like the transparent tubes too, I considered adding a few pieces on purpose just to be able to take a peak.
> 
> I agree with your point in general but a slight increase in gpw is feasible. The thing is, when you run bare bulb you don't have reflector loss, i.e. the reflector itself does not reflect 100% of the light. The led guys claim up to 20% loss, so it's probably more around half of that  which is still a 10% loss. That's potentially a 10% increase in gpw, but obviously doesn't make up for using a much larger surface. A couple of dozen pages back I mentioned a few things about this too, suggesting HDS roll out the inner canopy of his octagon, convert to a flat surface to get a good idea of how much light is ideal.
> 
> ...


Time to expose my dumbness again----What does "ppfd" refer to?

A~~~


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## Sativied (Oct 2, 2015)

It's simply put the light density on the surface being lit. The larger the surface area for a bulb the lower the resulting ppfd. For example, if you increase the surface area by raising the light (in a regular horizontal grow) you essentially spread out the light more and thereby decrease the amount of light per m2 (and per sqft...). By growing vertical (or tunnel) bare bulb you spread out the light from the bulb maximally and thus also reduce the ppfd. 

Here's a good article:
http://www.gavita-holland.com/index.php/item/lumens-are-for-humans.html

The 1k watt example:
1000W c) - 1,5 x 1,5 m - 2,25 m2 at a ppfd of ~800 µmol m-2 s-1

That's roughly 25sqft. When you double the surface area by running vertically bare bulb, you get half the ppfd (and need to add another light to make up).

Ppfd should be roughly 700-1000. The thing that makes the gpw inaccurate especially without taking space into account is that running 10% higher ppfd won't give you 10% more bud. Diminishing returns occurs quickly. Essentially, to an extend, the lower the ppfd the more efficient and the higher the gpw (common trick from led fans) but less fat / more leafy buds and less yield from a given space.

So I agree, focus on yield per space. But then growing vertically is about pushing the yields from a given space and having no reflector loss and less wall reflection loss should contribute to that total yield from the space. Heath supposedly got far over 2gpw from his vertical flooded tubes setup.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 8, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update*
*Day 32*

Things are going great. Several of the plants indicated sex and started growing pistols extremely early (Day 26)...the fastest I've ever seen. I actually had to remove some of them for fear of them starting to flower too early.

I still have the container of extra's but I'm pretty sure the final 63 plants that are in the octagon will be the ones. I've been gradually bringing up the nutrient concentration and it's currently sitting at 590 PPM or 0.84 EC.

The biggest procedural change I'm making this time is topping the plants. @Mr.Head inspired me to try this and so I am. Every single plant has been topped once. I am still shifting plants around daily. My approach is to place the plants furthest along in the bottom row. Next is the top row and then the least developed are going in the middle row.

    

This is a pretty typical example. All of the plants have a very nice root system already. This one that I pulled out extends about 2 feet already!
 


Since the rockwool cubes were establishing their roots before they were in their net pots, this is how I handled seating the cubes into the pots. A hole punch was used on all of the net pots to avoid the nightmare of trying to fish roots thru the small openings at the bottom. Just enough plastic was left to prevent any risk of the cubes falling thru.


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## hayrolld (Oct 8, 2015)

Looking Great HotDiggity! Topping should help keep the heights a little more consistent / less stretch to deal with. I think having more colas and trimming more of the small lowers should help with getting light to all the plants later when the jungle reappears. The plants all look very healthy and have good internode spacing. This is going to be your best run yet!


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 8, 2015)

HDS, like the set up, interesting!! how far away are the plants? is that 4 inch pvc? great idea...


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## Alaric (Oct 8, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 4 Update
> Day 32*
> 
> Things are going great. Several of the plants indicated sex and started growing pistols extremely early (Day 26)...the fastest I've ever seen. I actually had to remove some of them for fear of them starting to flower too early.
> ...


Hey HDS-----looks good.

I agree with hayrolld about removing the lower stuff.

Good idea using that reflectix behind the tubes. Are you planning on a trellis to train the plants in toward the light a ways----you know the stems will grow vertically anyway until buds fatten up.

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 8, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> HDS, like the set up, interesting!! how far away are the plants? is that 4 inch pvc? great idea...


4 inch pvc. Spaced 8 inches apart and the rows are 16 inches apart.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 8, 2015)

hayrolld said:


> Looking Great HotDiggity! Topping should help keep the heights a little more consistent / less stretch to deal with. I think having more colas and trimming more of the small lowers should help with getting light to all the plants later when the jungle reappears. The plants all look very healthy and have good internode spacing. This is going to be your best run yet!


I'm definitely going to spend time removing the crap secondary branches this time and just go for the colas!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 8, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Hey HDS-----looks good.
> 
> I agree with hayrolld about removing the lower stuff.
> 
> ...


The reflectix that you see is temporary. In the next week I'll be setting it up a little more proper.

Ya know, like you said last time, the plants tended to grow straight up without much lean towards the light. I don't have any trellis plans though. I reduced the diameter of the octagon hoping that most of the plants will end up in the sweet spot. If we ignore what the C99's did, the average plant extended 12 inches inward on average. With a 60 inch inner diameter, this is going to put the bulbs around 18 inches from the plants (a little less counting the thickness of the bulb). We'll see how it plays out I guess.


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## Alaric (Oct 8, 2015)

The main reason I'm suggesting a trellis is for space----imagine if the plants were trained outward toward the light (starting now)----then let then grow straight up. I know a pretty cheap way to do that and not too much effort (if interested). What I have in mind would like a scorg grow except with multiple tiers of plants like you have. 

I can't tell you how many times I've thought to myself----- "We'll see how it plays out I guess."

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 8, 2015)

Alaric said:


> The main reason I'm suggesting a trellis is for space----imagine if the plants were trained outward toward the light (starting now)----then let then grow straight up. I know a pretty cheap way to do that and not too much effort (if interested). What I have in mind would like a scorg grow except with multiple tiers of plants like you have.
> 
> I can't tell you how many times I've thought to myself----- "We'll see how it plays out I guess."
> 
> A~~~


Of course man...what are you thinking?


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 8, 2015)

i really like it,,very creative,,good use of space..


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## brimck325 (Oct 10, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Hey brimck325,
> 
> Not sure what you mean by that? Care to explain?
> 
> A~~~


i agree with you, on what you stated, but it doesn't apply in a bare vert grow.


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## Mohican (Oct 10, 2015)

Did you see the system @whodatnation created with the light mover and a pulley? His light moves up and down to give better coverage to all levels.


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## Sexologist420 (Oct 10, 2015)

Holy fucking shit man! This journal should be inducted into the RIU Hall of Fame! Just read all 87 pages this last week a few pages at a time. Crazy cool seeing your evolution. Im organic soil 100% so hydro isn't my thing but I still learned a shitload and its cool. Hydro will never touch soil for quality but for quantity and efficiency, hydro is king. Although reading through this inspired me to try something I think. Idk if ittl work. Prolly not but would be badass if it did. I think imma try a single 3 gal dwc next run 
Using ACT. Would have to change it every couple days but if it workex it would be true organic hydro and I would imagine the quality would be compareable to living soil organic with benifits of hydro. Plus every rez change would be good microbes to throw on garden outside. Yep...I think imma try it when I'm done with current run cuz tent is full. Thank you for all your valuable info. And to Sativied, mo, A~ and others who contributed. Great Shit man. Your officially inducted to RIU HOF!


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## Sexologist420 (Oct 10, 2015)

I think ill call it BioPonics if it works. Actually you know what....I got some seeds coming and imma toss a plant I have and do the bioponic experiment in its place cuz hell...every rez change is ACT for my girls so fucking A. Yep. Imma do some reading and planning and make a seperate journal when I start. I love doing random shit that prolly won't work and you inspired ne HDS  Thank you


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 10, 2015)

Sexologist420 said:


> Holy fucking shit man! This journal should be inducted into the RIU Hall of Fame! Just read all 87 pages this last week a few pages at a time. Crazy cool seeing your evolution. Im organic soil 100% so hydro isn't my thing but I still learned a shitload and its cool. Hydro will never touch soil for quality but for quantity and efficiency, hydro is king. Although reading through this inspired me to try something I think. Idk if ittl work. Prolly not but would be badass if it did. I think imma try a single 3 gal dwc next run
> Using ACT. Would have to change it every couple days but if it workex it would be true organic hydro and I would imagine the quality would be compareable to living soil organic with benifits of hydro. Plus every rez change would be good microbes to throw on garden outside. Yep...I think imma try it when I'm done with current run cuz tent is full. Thank you for all your valuable info. And to Sativied, mo, A~ and others who contributed. Great Shit man. Your officially inducted to RIU HOF!


Very kind words...thank you.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 10, 2015)

Well, almost as if on cue, that dreaded leaf curl and deficiency/toxicity problem has arrived just like last time. I have gradually been increasing the nutes and it peaked yesterday at 640 PPM's or slightly under 1.0 EC and then it happened. The largest fan leaves on the top started curling under and drooping and the lower smaller leaves started drying out and browning. I'll get some pictures but man...WTF.

I added some fresh water and brought it to 600 PPM. Air temps are 68 to 75. Water temps steady 68-69. The only other things that have changed in the last few days is that I took the 1000 Watt HPS out and put in the two 600 Watters. Running the Solis Tek 600 Watt 6K MH bulbs.

The only left to try is to change my water. I suspected this might be the problem last chapter and never did anything about it....time for action.
I have a well so no city water. PPM's are in the mid to upper 200's...~270 last time I checked.

PH has been very steady at 6.1 and just recently I started bringing it down a tad. From 6.1 to 6.0 a couple days ago and from 6.0 to 5.9 yesterday.

So the time has to come to address my water. I get my water directly from the water tank...it has a garden hose spigot on it. Where the grow room is located, an RO system is simply out of the question. I have no way to deal with the waste water that is produced. So here is what I ended up ordering:

 

And then I got a variety of filters. The finest of which is 0.6 microns. I'm not expecting 0 PPM but I'm very hopeful for a significant improvement and maybe with a little luck, a solution.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 12, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update*
*Day 36*

Things are going very well. I began working with the reflective material...it's still pretty ghetto but it's coming along. I'll be adding covering for the floor and what I'm trying to do for the top is to create something that might resemble a dunce cap...or a cone.

Overall, I am very pleased. The plants can no longer be moved as their roots are now intertwined and quite long. I feel pretty good about the job I did placing the best ones on the bottom, next best on top and the rest in the middle. Compared to last time, the differences between the best ones and the worst ones are not that dramatic. They are responding well to being topped and are starting to grow rapidly.

I've been running (2) 600 Watt metal halides but right after I took these photos I put a HPS in the top bulb and left the MH on the bottom...going for a little bit of mixed spectrum.


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## Mohican (Oct 12, 2015)

Looks amazing! Like a NASA lab 

How do you like the new configuration?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 13, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Looks amazing! Like a NASA lab
> 
> How do you like the new configuration?


Thanks! I really like it. If I can perfect the starting process, a lot of possibilities arise such as:

1) Perpetual: New seeds can be started within the same octagon under the same lights up to 4 weeks before harvest. This could shorten grow cycles from 95 days down to 67 days.
2) Possibility of using regular seeds as their sex should/could show prior to entering the octagon.

All in all, this method is just awesome. It is so low maintenance it's just crazy.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 14, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update*
*Day 38*

Girls are looking great. Some of them are experiencing the droopy leaves and leaf curl under and I took some shots of them. I'd say maybe 20% of them are showing this. At this point my best guess is either too many nutes or perhaps it's just the nature of the beast with RDWC.

They are starting to drink and eat more. PPM's dropped from 590 to 510 over the last 36 hours. Seems that high 500's is about where they want to be. When I got up into the mid 600's is when I first saw the leaf curl.

The additional space they have been given really looks to be paying off. We'll see in the next few weeks.


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## Alaric (Oct 14, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 4 Update
> Day 38*
> 
> Girls are looking great. Some of them are experiencing the droopy leaves and leaf curl under and I took some shots of them. I'd say maybe 20% of them are showing this. At this point my best guess is either too many nutes or perhaps it's just the nature of the beast with RDWC.
> ...


My opinion about droopy leaves (based on my observations):

When I first started my "tunnel" configuration (canopy section above the lights)----1st observed the gravity effect on the stems (straight up till bud weight)-----next the fans were not droopy due to some sort of problem, but rather a response of turning more toward the lights-----causing the leaves to "look droopy".

Like to hear from @tyystick and other vertical growers about their observation. I would't be surprised if @Sativied presents some sort of research material about this subject. 

A~~~


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## Alaric (Oct 14, 2015)

Hey HDS,

IMO, out designs share the same primary concept------how to get the most plant material exposed to the light/s.
Do you agree?

 

This is how I handled the plant training----the bottom limbs (in bottom tubes) are trained outward and the upper limbs trained upward-----even though there is three 1ks in that "tunnel"------the effective light from each light is ~600 watt with a hood.

In your case, I suggest trying a screen between the lights and your tubes-----it probably could just be stood up---if not----hung from the ceiling----just make sure your hands/arms will fit through.

Do you know the total yield from last crop?

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 17, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update*
*Day 41*

Things are going great still. I still have not changed the reservoir and am going to stick with topping off unless I see any problems. Nutrient strength is being kept between 530 and 560 PPM's and that feels like the sweet spot. PH is unbelievably consistent. I'm getting zero fluctuation which is great in one sense but I actually miss being able to set it to 6.5 and have to drop to mid 5's. Because of this, 5.8 is what I now aim for. Decided to put the other HPS in for now so running (2) HPS.

I'm very happy with the uniformity in the plants. The difference between the most and least advanced is simply not that dramatic. My spacing looks to be excellent at this point as well.

@Alaric - I owe you and others weights and pictures from last chapter which I PROMISE you will get.


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## akhiymjames (Oct 17, 2015)

Spectacular bro love how everything is so uniform. All the work you've put into this you def deserve for it to kill. Job well done will sit back and watch you grow some major dank


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 17, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Spectacular bro love how everything is so uniform. All the work you've put into this you def deserve for it to kill. Job well done will sit back and watch you grow some major dank


Thanks man...I really appreciate it! This is the 1st time I really feel like things are coming together.


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## twistedentities (Oct 17, 2015)

Really enjoyed reading through your thread. I was a fan of a similar setup by Heath Robinson. Best wishes to your grow!


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## Path of Light (Oct 17, 2015)

Diggity i agree u got some SERIOUS DIY skills & a great wife that is patient with u while u zero in on the best setup that works for u.If u gor the space I would def try the perptual with seeding or clone to cut ur harvest time down.enjoy watching ur grows.BTW what was ur final dried weight when u grew in the 2 totes?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 17, 2015)

twistedentities said:


> Really enjoyed reading through your thread. I was a fan of a similar setup by Heath Robinson. Best wishes to your grow!


Yeah, for sure. I came up with the basic idea of this on my own but then of course that Heath had pioneered this years ago. So I can take a little bit of credit for thinking of the idea but he gets all the credit for inventing it.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 17, 2015)

Path of Light said:


> Diggity i agree u got some SERIOUS DIY skills & a great wife that is patient with u while u zero in on the best setup that works for u.If u gor the space I would def try the perptual with seeding or clone to cut ur harvest time down.enjoy watching ur grows.BTW what was ur final dried weight when u grew in the 2 totes?


The 2 totes only yielded like 13 or 14 ounces. A very big disappointment.


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## Path of Light (Oct 17, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> The 2 totes only yielded like 13 or 14 ounces. A very big disappointment.


hey it was a heck of a try & worth doing as a learning lesson


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 17, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Hey HDS,
> 
> IMO, out designs share the same primary concept------how to get the most plant material exposed to the light/s.
> Do you agree?
> ...


 Walk me thru this picture. You say this has (3) 1K's? The plants appear to be way too close to the bulbs. What is the length of the tubes in that picture and exactly how far away is the bulb from plant material?

To answer your question, yes...of course!


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## Alaric (Oct 18, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Walk me thru this picture. You say this has (3) 1K's? The plants appear to be way too close to the bulbs. What is the length of the tubes in that picture and exactly how far away is the bulb from plant material?
> 
> To answer your question, yes...of course!


Hey HDS,

Sometimes I'm a little concerned I'm too intrusive into your thread----if so----I apologize.

To answer your questions, the tubes are 10' x 6" schedule 40 pvc. In that shot----yes---some canopy parts a little to close so I just spread the tubes apart a little.

The distance from the lights to the canopy I try to shoot for is 16" - 12" ( with 12" being at 10k fc which is full sunlight intensity). I had to use cool tubes, 8" blower and 15000 BTU window ac to cool the the flower room (Fl). I could rest my hand on the cool tubes----warm but not hot.

If you're interested in the details of that pic----in my journal (in my sig) beginning page 3, post 55.

Thank you for letting us ride along with you on your journey. I assume everyone that has responded to your thread-----wishes you much success and loads of fun.

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 20, 2015)

Just a quick update....pretty bad news to report. Hoping you guys can shed some light on how bad it is. Apparently when I switched from the single 1000 Watt to 2 600's, I did not double check both of my timers and one of them was set to the ON position instead of the T position. One of the 2 lights has been on 24 hours a day for approximately 10 days now. Today is day 44 and day 1 of flowering typically would have been around day 34. How bad is this?


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## Sativied (Oct 20, 2015)

So they basically had 24 hours per day light for the past 10 days, of which 12 hours per day only one bulb was on? If that's the case, then besides the obvious time delay I don't really see a major problem. Considering you're still vegging. The first pistils are a sign of maturity, and doesn't really mean they are flowering yet. They mature on veg schedule including 24hrs light too (if not faster). Point is, they should transition to flowering faster now that you basically vegged them first. Just as you will get more 'plant' now, you'll get a lot more roots now they will still have to transition to flowering, might be something to keep an eye on.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 20, 2015)

Sativied said:


> So they basically had 24 hours per day light for the past 10 days, of which 12 hours per day only one bulb was on? If that's the case, then besides the obvious time delay I don't really see a major problem. Considering you're still vegging. The first pistils are a sign of maturity, and doesn't really mean they are flowering yet. They mature on veg schedule including 24hrs light too (if not faster). Point is, they should transition to flowering faster now that you basically vegged them first. Just as you will get more 'plant' now, you'll get a lot more roots now they will still have to transition to flowering, might be something to keep an eye on.


Man, I sure hope so. I feel better after reading that. I'm so embarrassed I almost did not post this.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 20, 2015)

I'll post a proper picture update tomorrow. They are JAMMING.


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## Mohican (Oct 20, 2015)

We all are constantly learning. The more mistakes we share, the more we all learn. I go randomly check on my lights all the time now.

I want to get cameras like @GroErr has.

Hydro killed me because I was checking everything every 30 minutes. When I didn't - something would go wrong. 

Now you see why I am able to put up with the outdoor bugs and rain so easily!


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## Sativied (Oct 21, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Man, I sure hope so. I feel better after reading that. I'm so embarrassed I almost did not post this.


Pretty sure we all do things like that occassionally. Had my timers on On instead of clock/auto/T more than once. When I transitioned last round I went from 18/6 to several days 12/12, then several days 18/6 again before sticking with 12/12...


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## Alaric (Oct 21, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Pretty sure we all do things like that occassionally. Had my timers on On instead of clock/auto/T more than once. When I transitioned last round I went from 18/6 to several days 12/12, then several days 18/6 again before sticking with 12/12...


I'm guilty of that also----talk about confused plants. Girls got mad and some even grew nanners-----not fun.

HDS, hang in there. IMO, most if not all veteran weed growers have their own "accidental experiment/s".

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 27, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update*
*Day 51*

Things are going great still. I did the very first rez change 4 or 5 days ago. As it turns out, I waited just a little longer than I should have but I really wanted to know how long I could go. The girls experienced a little bit of problems due to that but nothing major. The care I took at the beginning is really paying off. The root system for each plant is just insane and unlike last time where perhaps 2/3rds of the plants did not do well because of immature roots and shading from neighbors, virtually all of them are thriving. Increasing the side to side spacing from 5 1/2 inches to 8 inches is making a huge difference. And the row spacing is also paying off. So as I mentioned a few posts back, I had decided to top all of the plants one time. This slowed them down just a little bit not bad at all. Over the last 10 days or so, I have been doing selective pruning on all of the plants removing nearly all of the small weak side branches. This is something that I will continue to do.

I've been running my nutrient strength within a tight range and I've found the sweet spot where the amount of nutes are being consumed at the perfect rate. When I do top-off's, I bring the PPM's up to 560/570 and I let them get as low as 500 but no less. All of the leaf curling I saw last time is a thing of the past. They are perfectly healthy. I am waiting to report on what day of flowering they are on until I have more to go on. That 10 day fuck up where the lights were on 24/7 certainly slowed this but I don't think by that much. If I had to guess today, I would say flowering day #10 based on how they look which is really only about 1 week behind schedule.

I've been running (2) 600 Watt HPS for quite a while but decided to put the 1000 Watt HPS in and see how that looks running by itself. It looked pretty good but not quite enough light to go from top to bottom. I'm not sure if I want to run 1600 Watts but I said what the hell...we'll see how it looks. So I have a 1000 Watt HPS on top and a 600 Watt HPS on the bottom. The area is very well lit right now. The space could certainly allow for (2) 1000's but I don't think I will do this.

The room smells like it is in full flower even though all we have is a few pistols. Very encouraging!

My new reservoir change strategy will be one change every 2 weeks. I will PH to 6.5 and drop it by 0.1 each top off until it is at 5.8 and then let it remain there until the next change.
Just to recap...I am keeping things very very simple. Aqua Flakes A&B, Dutch Master ZONE and PH Down...Nothing else.


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## Alaric (Oct 27, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 4 Update
> Day 51*
> 
> Over the last 10 days or so, I have been doing selective pruning on all of the plants removing nearly all of the small weak side branches. This is something that I will continue to do.
> ...


^^Bravo 

Imo, screams for two 1ks (if you can control the heat).

I usually notice a growth spurt after a rez flush and reload.

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 27, 2015)

Alaric said:


> ^^Bravo
> 
> Imo, screams for two 1ks (if you can control the heat).
> 
> ...


It totally could. I could easily have 4 rows with (2) 1K's and possibly even 5 but 5 would probably be pushing it. It's getting colder here so heat is not an issue. The range over the last 3 days has been 62 low during lights off and 68 during lights on. My readings are outside of the octagon...inside it is quite a bit warmer but the fan prevents it from getting hot. With the 600 and 1000, the room temp has gone up from 68 to 72.


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## Mohican (Oct 28, 2015)

Looking dialed in! I love it when vegging plants stink up the room - you know you are in for a treat


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 31, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update*
*Day 55*
*Flowering Day 11
*
Just a quick update today. I took the reflective wrap around the top down for the day so I can get in and trim up the top row from the outside. The girls are doing great.


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## akhiymjames (Oct 31, 2015)

KILLING!!!!!!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 31, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> KILLING!!!!!!


Thanks man! This is shaping up to possibly be my best performance yet.


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## akhiymjames (Oct 31, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Thanks man! This is shaping up to possibly be my best performance yet.


I knew it was gonna be when I saw how you constructed this setup. Lots of trials and tribulations and money you've put into trying to get the best setup and it has paid off bro. Keep killing man. Have you decide if your gonna continue to run seeds or run clones?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 31, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> I knew it was gonna be when I saw how you constructed this setup. Lots of trials and tribulations and money you've put into trying to get the best setup and it has paid off bro. Keep killing man. Have you decide if your gonna continue to run seeds or run clones?


That's a good question and I don't know. I owe it to myself to at least try the clone option. One promising new option if I continue running seeds is that I should be able to run regular seeds with this setup and simply germinate twice what I need. But clones offer some serious benefits that I just cannot get with seeds. I can pheno hunt and use spectacular mothers. I can expect extremely uniform growth. Time will tell.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 4, 2015)

I have not been as diligent with updates as I used to and I do apologize for that. Since I never took the time to explain some of the details of the current setup, I thought I would do so now. Most of you probably won't be interested but if even one person gets something useful out of this post then sweet!

So for Chapter 3 which was the 1st ever Hydroponics run for me as well as the 1st try with this NFT Tube setup I learned a few things.

 

I run my nutrient strength extremely low...almost unbelievably low. I keep my PH range between 6.5 and 5.8. When I do rez changes, the PH will remain very steady until about 10 or 12 days later and then it starts to drop off. This seems to be when a rez change will be needed soon. I like to start the PH off at 6.5 and just bring it down slowly a little every day when I do top-off's. Water temps are managed by a chiller which is sitting just to the left in this picture. 68/69F is what the temp always is...very little variance. My PPM range is between 500 and 600 and I generally like to keep it between 530 and 560 PPM's. Seems crazy huh? But if I even approach 1.0 EC I get burning and leaf curl.



 

This is the back side of the rez and is my wire management. All of the power cords for the pumps and what not come out here. This is nice so the lid can always fasten securely to keep it dark. It's high enough that even when I fill the rez all the way there is no risk of water escaping.



 

The water returns from the tubes via a 2 inch tube. You can see massive roots in this too. About once a week I take scissors and cut off any roots that are actually inside of the rez. These roots are meaty too. Not whimpy little roots but big pasta like roots...haha. The rez is about 5 feet away from the tubes so you can get a sense for just how many roots these girls have.


 

On the right side of the rez, I have 4 input holes for air lines. I'm only running one air stone which seems to be just fine. I had anticipated running 4 air stones but it's just not needed. These grommets work great. I actually should close these up as a little light appears to be able to get in.


 

This is the front-left side of the rez. All of the tubing is 1/2". The two on the left are for the chiller. A pump inside the rez pumps water to the chiller and is immediately returned. I have a 90 degree elbow on it just to control spraying/splashing.

The two up front feed the tubes. There are 2 feed pumps in the rez. I chose to use two for a few reasons. One, if my feed pump were to ever fail I would be royally screwed. By having two, I have some fault protection. The other reason is that I have a lot of flexibility in pump size. I've found that two 396GPH pumps is about perfect and that's what is currently running.


 

These are the 2 feed lines feeding the top of the tubes.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 4, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update*
*Day 59*
*Flowering ~ Day 15*

I've been doing very aggressive pruning on these plants. When I topped them, they ended up having 4 main branches plus tons of little stuff. I've removed almost all of the little stuff and in many cases I've removed 1 of the 4 main branches. When I topped them, I was careful to orient each plant so that the two main branches were side by side (not front to back). The 3rd and 4th branches that came were from lower branches. What I ended up with was a triangle shaped plant with the 2 main branches on each side and a lower branch out in front. The 4th branch was behind them and thus not receiving much light and so in those cases I simply removed the 4th. All in all I've removed about 2 full 5 gallon buckets worth of branches. Taking pictures is kind of difficult now so some of these are just me holding the camera in the octagon and shooting. What you will see in these pictures is pretty much only dominant branches that I hope will be big 'old colas!


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## Mohican (Nov 5, 2015)

Looks amazing HDS!

What made you decide to go with less bubbles?

I like the low PPMs. I know a guy who grew amazing OG and he kept it in the high 300s most of the time and only maxed out at 500 occasionally.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 6, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Looks amazing HDS!
> 
> What made you decide to go with less bubbles?
> 
> I like the low PPMs. I know a guy who grew amazing OG and he kept it in the high 300s most of the time and only maxed out at 500 occasionally.


No real reason. Sat had mentioned not running air stones at all with this system and how it would be just fine. Heath never oxygenated so it was more out of curiosity than anything.


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## Mohican (Nov 7, 2015)

I saw a similar post back when I was in hydro. I pulled out my airstones and everything when bad. Now I am a strong believer in as much air as possible


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## Mohican (Nov 7, 2015)

Purple Haze:




Jail Bird:




Looks like it is time to harvest:




Cheers,
Mo


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## Corso312 (Nov 7, 2015)

Gorgeous lookin...


Looks a lot like heath's setup...


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 7, 2015)

Mohican said:


> I saw a similar post back when I was in hydro. I pulled out my airstones and everything when bad. Now I am a strong believer in as much air as possible


Hmm. Well, I'll throw some more in then. Certainly won't hurt!


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## Sativied (Nov 7, 2015)

Max DO level is not so hard to reach in NFT if the pump runs 24/7. Once you reached that adding more bubbles doesn't help anything. It would depend on the rez contents and pump capacity whether I would use bubbles, the larger the res contents the less fast it recirculates... Most aeration however comes from surface aeration (also when using bubbles) which happens constantly in NFT. Add the additional return from the chiller recirculating it too...It ain't dwc... Frankly I personally would rather have the water go bad once and know I actually need the bubbles than not know and potentially run air pumps for no reason but that's just me, don't take that as advice, do what you think is best to keep'm healthy. Root problems are hard to recover from and like you said it won't hurt.

Hey, if you still interested in arduino, you could get a DO probe (pricey though) and measure it and really tune it optimally.


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## Mohican (Nov 7, 2015)

I am not 100% sold on the DO being the biggest benefit. Our air is 85% nitrogen.


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## Sativied (Nov 7, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Our air is 85% nitrogen.


N2, atmospheric nitrogen, which needs to be fixated (by nature or synthetically) into forms the plant can take up. In hydro the symbiotic nitrogen-fixing bacteria do not live, that's something for organic but even then atmospheric nitrogen it's not a major source. One of the main reasons we use synthetic nutes, one of the major export products of NL, one of the main problems with traditional agriculture, fixated Nitrogen. Speed up the natural nitrogen cycle.

"But plants do not use nitrogen directly from the air. This is because nitrogen itself is unreactive, and cannot be used by green plants to make protein. Nitrogen gas therefore needs to be converted into nitrate compound in the soil by nitrogen-fixing bacteria in soil, root nodules or lightning."
eschooltoday.com/ecosystems/the-nitrogen-cycle.html

Some crops you can plant to help: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Nitrogen-fixing_crops in soil...

And just in case you are not "sold" yet 

"A major new technology enables all of the world's crops to take nitrogen from the air rather than expensive and environmentally damaging fertilizers. Nitrogen fixation, the process by which nitrogen is converted to ammonia, is vital for plants to survive and grow. However, only a very small number of plants, most notably legumes (such as peas, beans and lentils) have the ability to fix nitrogen from the atmosphere with the help of nitrogen fixing bacteria. The vast majority of plants have to obtain nitrogen from the soil, and for most crops currently being grown across the world, this also means a reliance on synthetic nitrogen fertilizer. 

A major new technology has been developed by The University of Nottingham, which enables all of the world's crops to take nitrogen from the air rather than expensive and environmentally damaging fertilisers."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130725125024.htm


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 8, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update
Day 63
Flowering ~ Day 19*

Yesterday I decided to thin out the plants and remove a bunch of fan leaves. Most of this was concentrated on the top row. I will be addressing the middle row next. They look pretty butchered but I'm pretty confident it will be for the best and in 10 days or so you won't even be able to tell it was done.

One other big item to mention. Slot #1 (Top row, 1st plant) started to leak. As I inspected it, the water level has simply risen to the very top of the tubes. I'm not sure if the resistance of the roots is causing this or what. So for now I turned one of the two feed pumps off and the situation is resolved. The sheer amount of roots in the tubes is so much more than last time it's pretty crazy.

After the big thinning out, I treated the plants to a fresh rez change and toned the nutes back to 500 PPM.


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## Mohican (Nov 8, 2015)

It is going to get thick in there!

I believe if your plants are healthy, you can chop and train the shit out of them and they will just bounce back even stronger.

I had a lower branch rip off of the main trunk and it was only connected by a strip of the trunk. It turned darker green than the other branches and put out some of the nicest flowers.

When I was pheno hunting I mainlined 40 plants to slow them down until I had time to flower them. They did just fine.

@Sativied - I know the chemistry. I also know that it isn't all 100% of one kind of nitrogen, and that there are free radical oxygen reactions along with others going on in the water. The growth seen in bubbling water can't be explained by oxygen only. I would like to see an experiment with only O2 used in the bubbles and see if it is as effective as air. That is the only way I can see of proving that none of the atmospheric nitrogen is being used. Now I must add another experiment to my long list! I can't wait to get my botany lab built!

HASH!!!





Cheers,
Mo


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## Sativied (Nov 8, 2015)

Mohican said:


> The growth seen in bubbling water can't be explained by oxygen only.


There's no exceptional growth in "bubbling water" unless you add nutrients and you still get that growth if you don't have bubbles (but have other means of oxygenation the nutrient solution) so nobody is trying to explain that growth by oxygen alone. See skunkd0c's plants or my tube run from clones to see what growth looks like without bubbles. There's no mystery as to what causes the veg rates in hydro and it isn't bubbles or atmospheric nitrogen or an N boost specifically, it's the constant availability of the required elements in a form the plant can take up directly.


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## Mohican (Nov 9, 2015)

I saw a guy grow a plant for a month with nothing but water and bubbles. That is what got me to thinking about what was really going on in there.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 11, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update
Day 66
Flowering ~ Day 22*

Things are going great. Nothing to report so just a few pictures.


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## numberfour (Nov 11, 2015)

Tsunami of green, love it


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## DirtyNerd (Nov 12, 2015)

Wow just fucking wow 

Great job brother looks like the system is dialed in it's going to be a DWC if them roots keep growing sorry not much posting and stroking i been a lazy ass when it comes to posting of late 

If you get anymore HBO strains i recommend the Lemon Garlic OG and purple train wreak holy shit super sticky and super stinky the garlic smell from the OG is insane i had to put a net up today and it was so stinky in a good day with out going over 100 posts how did the last grow end in yield... ? 

Keep up the great work bro


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 12, 2015)

DirtyNerd said:


> Wow just fucking wow
> 
> Great job brother looks like the system is dialed in it's going to be a DWC if them roots keep growing sorry not much posting and stroking i been a lazy ass when it comes to posting of late
> 
> ...


I've been a little lazy keeping up with other journals as well as posting detailed info on my own. Still have not weighed the last round


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## jigfresh (Nov 12, 2015)

Nice stuff dude. Looking real good in there.

One other bit about the air thing... I read more bubbles can raise pH more, and I was always having problems with rising pH, so no airstone for me in my tubes setup. Just the waterfalls.


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## Mohican (Nov 12, 2015)

OK - that is why my pH kept going up!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 16, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update
Day 71
Flowering ~ Day 27*

Things are going great still. I did another rez change yesterday...only the 3rd change so far. It seems like rez changes are going to be needed a little more frequently now...probably weekly. Besides some of the general odor of the water, I've been getting odd things happening. For example, The PH will start to drop pretty rapidly to the tune of 1 whole point a day. It requires a lot of PH UP, CalMag and or Silica...I use all 3 at different times but pretty sparingly. All of which will obviously raise the PH. The other oddity is that the PPM's stay the same or actually start to rise. The girls are either uptaking fewer nutes or there is *something* in the water that is adding to the PPM's.

At any rate, I did a full rez change yesterday and to my surprise, the PPM's had dropped over 100 points overnight. I was able to take the following pictures right before the lights came on and I noticed a little bit of paleness so I've decided to start increasing the feed. I've been keeping nutes in a tight range...~530 to 560. I'm going to increase this today to around 630 and then re-evaluate in 2 days. Perhaps Skunk #1 just eats a little more...will report back on this soon.

All in all, the progress is fantastic. Out of 63 plants, only 4 of them are what I would consider dud's. I've continued to remove the smaller mostly worthless side branches that get no light and have also done some select fan leaf defoliation.


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## jigfresh (Nov 16, 2015)

Looking real good buddy. You flipped to 12/12 the day before me, it's fun to see the same progress going on as in my grow.

Strange about the rez issues. I don't know what that could be. And about calmag and silica, I used both at every rez change, even replacing silica when I topped up with water. There's no harm in using it often.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 16, 2015)

jigfresh said:


> Looking real good buddy. You flipped to 12/12 the day before me, it's fun to see the same progress going on as in my grow.
> 
> Strange about the rez issues. I don't know what that could be. And about calmag and silica, I used both at every rez change, even replacing silica when I topped up with water. There's no harm in using it often.


Thanks! Do you happen to use any kind of water treatment or root treatment? I use ZONE and i love it but i dont know if i should be adding more to my daily topoff or not. I emailed the company but got no reply.


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## jigfresh (Nov 16, 2015)

Yeah, I think I was one of the people who suggested zone. I use it as I use the water. I forget now, is it 1 mL per Gal? Anyways, I put what it says anytime I put in water.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 16, 2015)

jigfresh said:


> Yeah, I think I was one of the people who suggested zone. I use it as I use the water. I forget now, is it 1 mL per Gal? Anyways, I put what it says anytime I put in water.


Alright. I was not sure about that. My assumption was that nothing in ZONE was being consumed by the plants and I did not want to create a toxic environment for the roots. I've been adding it whenever I refill but I'll try adding it with every top-off too. Who knows...maybe I'll get extended time 

Btw...I'm gunna go peek in on your journal!


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## jigfresh (Nov 16, 2015)

Oh sorry, there's nothing there, nothing new at least. I'm in Spain growing seeds, running 16 strains right now. It's a jungle all over the place.

I'm on day 27 today. Here are a couple pics from yesterday. I hope you don't mind my posting them.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 16, 2015)

jigfresh said:


> Oh sorry, there's nothing there, nothing new at least. I'm in Spain growing seeds, running 16 strains right now. It's a jungle all over the place.
> 
> I'm on day 27 today. Here are a couple pics from yesterday. I hope you don't mind my posting them.
> View attachment 3544132 View attachment 3544133


Nice colors on that girl and that's quite a manly man there on the left!


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## bf80255 (Nov 18, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> gettin cakey in this piece! haha
> 
> View attachment 3543953 View attachment 3543954 View attachment 3543955 View attachment 3543956 View attachment 3543957 View attachment 3543958


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 20, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update
Day 75
Flowering ~ Day 31*

The girls are absolutely jamming. This is shaping up to be my best work to date. I have 17 pictures so I will spread them over two posts. The first series of pictures will try and capture how things look from the outside and from the top. The 2nd series will be shots from the inside. The very 1st picture will give you an idea of how aggressively I pruned the plants by removing most of the secondary weak branches.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 20, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update - Continued
Day 75
Flowering ~ Day 31*


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## jigfresh (Nov 20, 2015)

Wow, you are going to have so much herb... and so much trimming.  Nice work.


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## Mohican (Nov 20, 2015)

Looks like you are going to have a bit of top shelf!!!

 



Cheers,
Mo


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 20, 2015)

I'm thrilled with their progress and getting pretty resinous already!


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## Alaric (Nov 20, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I'm thrilled with their progress and getting pretty resinous already!


Very nice HDS 

Still have around 30 days before chop?

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 20, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Very nice HDS
> 
> Still have around 30 days before chop?
> 
> A~~~


Well...if my days are correct, then yes. They seem a tad bit further along than 30 days though. We'll see!


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## Sativied (Nov 20, 2015)

Looking good HDS, they are going to fatten up a lot and turn it into a wall of bud over the next 3-4 weeks.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 27, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update - Part #1
Day 82
Flowering ~ Day 38*

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! I hope everyone was able to spend quality time with family and enjoy some incredible food...I sure did!

Things are going great. I'm kind of in the auto-pilot mode so there is not much to say. I'm starting to see the 1st bit of color change in the hairs...just a faint orange starting to come through.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 27, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update - Part #2
Day 82
Flowering ~ Day 38*
*
...Pictures Continued

         *

*
*


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## Alaric (Nov 27, 2015)

Very nice HDS 

I can almost smell "skunk" from here. Auto pilot mode is about to end 

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 27, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Very nice HDS
> 
> I can almost smell "skunk" from here. Auto pilot mode is about to end
> 
> A~~~


I'm already scared about the daunting task of chopping down and trimming that will be before me. And yes, the smell is thick...heavy.


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## GroErr (Nov 27, 2015)

Fantastic setup and grow HDS, your setup/method is inspiring, great job. Cheers!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 27, 2015)

GroErr said:


> Fantastic setup and grow HDS, your setup/method is inspiring, great job. Cheers!


Thanks a lot! This appears to be my best effort so far


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## Sativied (Nov 28, 2015)

Very nice man, making that skunk #1 look great.



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I'm already scared about the daunting task of chopping down and trimming that will be before me.


I look forward to seeing the roots after you pulled them out.


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## bf80255 (Nov 28, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 4 Update - Part #1
> Day 82
> Flowering ~ Day 38*
> 
> ...


system looks to be getting pretty well dialed in brutha, nice uniform bud growth throughout the whole canopy with different strains, very impressive.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 29, 2015)

@bf80255
Thanks! This is the 1st time I'm running only 1 strain. Skunk #1 from Sensi Seeds is pretty consistent and uniform...something that is pretty important. The variance I had with my 1st prototype using 5 strains caused a lot of problems.

@Sativied 
I suspect it will be pretty impressive. In the 1st prototype, I could easily lift each plant up from the base a couple of inches and look at the roots. Many of these, however, are akin to trying to lift a post out of the ground that has poured concrete. They just don't even budge! I knew they were going to be crazy when I had to start cutting roots entering the reservoir during pre-flower...a 5 foot run from the exit of the tubes.


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## Lisa martinez (Nov 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 4 Update - Part #2
> Day 82
> Flowering ~ Day 38
> 
> ...


Awesome !


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 29, 2015)

Hey everyone...I'm hoping you can give me some advice. With winter coming, the temps in my grow space get too cold to grow effectively so I have 3 options:

A) Just wait until April or so.
B) Grow a round of Auto-Flowers. This is an option because the lights can be on most of the time providing enough heat.
C) Take some clones from the best Skunk #1's I have going right now and try and spend the next few months creating mothers and cloning them.

For option C, do any of you have any experience taking clones from a plant that is in full flower?
For Option B, I've always been under the assumption (not necessarily correctly) that all auto's will be sub-par in quality. Any thoughts on this?

Any and all suggestions/opinions welcomed


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## jigfresh (Nov 29, 2015)

Autos have come a long way man. There are some good ones out there. I don't know which ones, but I've heard some reputable people saying good things about them. They are really big here in Spain because everyone wants to grow outdoors, electricity is expensive, and they don't want to only harvest once a year... so lots of people run autos.

I would try option B and option C.

I've taken clones at harvest, didn't do anything special, just did it like normal. I think people cut the buds off, not really sure.


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## torontoke (Nov 29, 2015)

Hey hds 
Here's an idea to help with winter temps. If you have the room set up a second "octagon" with a separate curtain and wall. Have them on opposing times so that there's always a light on creating heat to keep the room ok.
If you get real crazy build 3 octagons and run a light over each one for 8 hrs a day. Or not lol

Imo stay away from the autos. I found them finicky low yielding and sub par potentcy wise.


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## ghb (Nov 29, 2015)

damn you torontoke beating me to it with that quick answer whilst i'm sitting here writing out an essay! lol

make 2 flower rooms and run them so that one is on in the day and one in the night, it is the most efficient way of doing things if you have the energy time and resources to do so.

i currently have a similar dilemma and am now using an electric radiator that is running at 3kw when the lights go out, my room is only a 2400w room so i am literally wasting electricity on creating heat when i could use that same power to grow me 2-3 kg of quality herbs. unfortunately for me i am a lazy bastard and have too much work on my hands do to ever do anything like that any time soon.

i have done it before with 2 grow tents in the same room, this was a few years ago and it was not to combat the cold of winter but the heat of summer which is sort of the same thing. there was a 15 second gap between one going off and one going on, the one that had lights on at night did ever so slightly better but yields were very similar.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 29, 2015)

I had not considered 2 grow chambers on opposing light schedules. That would take care of the cold most likely. Not sure I have the space to do so but I'll start thinking.


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## ghb (Nov 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I had not considered 2 grow chambers on opposing light schedules. That would take care of the cold most likely. Not sure I have the space to do so but I'll start thinking.


not perfectly suited to your octagon but grow tents are a room in a room and are ideal for such things, i'm sure you'll work it out if you really want to.

i mean NOT GROWING?! seriously? i shudder at the thought, a man of your talents it would be a crime.


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## torontoke (Nov 29, 2015)

Even if it means using 2-3 smaller setups if they are continually producing then overall yield should be still more than one octagon and it solves the temp issue.
Just my two cents


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## Sativied (Nov 29, 2015)

How cold does it get? When I built my tubes I expected I needed an aquarium heater but turned out the water pump gets warm enough to prevent it from getting too cold. That said, if it gets colder than 62 you could use one of those. If the roots don't get too cold,you already won half the battle, if not more.

I have a small vet cabinet with 54-72w T8 in which I germinate, keep clones, etc, to which I connect the intake ducting of my flower closet whn it gets too cold.

Normally in a fully enclosed space and pots I would recommend heating mats. How about one of those party tent heaters? If power use gets too high you could perhap consider running a row less and use 1 bulb only, and spend the rest on a heater.

Also, some strains can handle it much better than others. Besides afghani perhaps you could look at some canadian bred varieties, or holland's hope, frysian dew and similar varieties bred for cold climates. Some seed banks actually have an option to select for cold climate seeds. While usually outdoor many are perfectly fine for indoor as well.


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## Alaric (Nov 29, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Hey everyone...I'm hoping you can give me some advice. With winter coming, the temps in my grow space get too cold to grow effectively so I have 3 options:
> 
> A) Just wait until April or so.
> B) Grow a round of Auto-Flowers. This is an option because the lights can be on most of the time providing enough heat.
> ...


Some more options for the "too cold" problem (which I've never had).

D) run your lights at night and supplement heating during the day with a heater if necessary----or better yet, add another light/s to your octagon.

Option C---- I've done that before. Took forever to root (poor strike percentage) and then revert back to veg and some produced nanners. My opinion----don't do it unless as a last resort.

I have no experience with autos---only read some of the conflicting stories.

A~~~


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## Alaric (Nov 29, 2015)

Hey S,

I would like to see some pics of your tube setup (if comfortable).

A~~~


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## Sativied (Nov 29, 2015)

Ah yes of course, switch day and night, I've been doing that for so long it's normal to me. At night the light keeps it warm, during the day, in colder seasons I have the heating on anyway and direct the intake to my living room and hall.

I revegged quite a few plants and while that's usually without problems the best one did throw nanners at the end while a non-revegged clone I took earlier did not. Though that Skunk #1 is probably less likely to do that than many of the gazillion crosses made with it.

@Alaric: I just started another run on soil, already regretting it. Got a few in hempy that look so much better at week 8 than my soil plants at week 3. Got some new nutes (Atami AB) which do seem to suit me better than the organic mixes I tried this year. Since they closed so many growshops I tried out 4 different soil types from gardening center and while it works, it's not ideal. So I was referring to my old set up you've already seen. Actually started a round on those a couple of months ago, but didn't have enough females to justify running the tubes so transplanted them to soil. Which went great under 400w mh but they can't handle the 600w hps. I'm having a bad grow year...

Oh I actually do have a new tubes setup... Let me grab some pics


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## Sativied (Nov 29, 2015)

That's a 2-inch tube. Remember our talks about plant mobility? This was a little test setup for giggles. Worked so well (better/faster than my dwc preveg boxes) I moved them to my large tubes but most were male.


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## Alaric (Nov 29, 2015)

Hey S,

Thanks for the pic. Those plants look happy----except for that midget.

Seems I remember someone saying "soil----never again"  What happened? 

Bummer about the boy population. What's your opinion about fem seed? The only fem strain I've ever grown is Critical Kush I got through Attitude----no complaints.

Cheers,

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 29, 2015)

@Sativied 
Sometime in mid January the temps will reach their low point of 48F and remain there until early April...if memory serves correct from last winter.

One thing I forgot to mention was that I might not run the tubes for my next grow. I'm almost done building my 1st LED and want to give that a try so I'll probably go back to a drain to waste traditional style for at least one run.


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## Sativied (Nov 29, 2015)

The midget was added later, came from a bed of hydroton. The three largest ones were untouched till they had multiple roots and brached out tap. Second from left and right had its roots in a knot to keep them short but that damaged (broke) them.

I have nothing against fem seed for growing, I rather just not use them for breeding because there are still too many unknowns, else I'd still be running fem seeds (or clones) myself.



Alaric said:


> Seems I remember someone saying "soil----never again"  What happened?


I already vegged those females in the tubes and they roots were so large I decided to transplant to soil instead of hempy (which I've done more often but only when still being able to spread out the roots in the perlite). Needed more plants to fill the space and rather not run soil and tubes in the same small space so added even more soil plants. Had nearly 50 in total, down to little over 40 now.

I'm pretty sure I'll be moving to hempy (perlite) once I stop filling pots with dirt. Two hempy plants I got in flower now, they get 500ppm once every day (third is tap ppm) after a flush with water. First is in half a gallon medium, second is in 5L H&G jerry. Mostly perlite, and some coco and hydroton I still had.

        
Under 400w mh with an output similar to the 315w cmh, first got bend out of shape cause it's pushed in the corner against the wall. I could fit 49 of those on 4x4 and get exceptional high gpw. Probably going for flowering 12-16 like the second, topped to 4 mains. I bought a cycle timer that supports seconds and will probably set up some automatic watering system for a whole bunch of hempy containers on trays and then drain to waste. I can easily remove plants then, to trash or pollinate or move around.



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> @Sativied
> Sometime in mid January the temps will reach their low point of 48F and remain there until early April...if memory serves correct from last winter.
> 
> One thing I forgot to mention was that I might not run the tubes for my next grow. I'm almost done building my 1st LED and want to give that a try so I'll probably go back to a drain to waste traditional style for at least one run.


It gets that cold here easily but usually not in my grow room cause it's next to heated rooms. Plenty of growers here that have dealt with such temps for decades though, growing in cold attics, sheds, and basements. Yet people love a "winter grow" here, as it's usually dry. You could set up a grow tent, get some heating mats to put under the pots, and do a run on soil or coco. Heating mat under those tubs perhaps...

Since you have the freedom with LED to build w/e you need, why not build something that can be used vertically? You should have enough data now to be able to determine the required ppf. I highly recommend HPS for a winter grow though.


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## Alaric (Dec 1, 2015)

Sativied said:


> The midget was added later, came from a bed of hydroton. The three largest ones were untouched till they had multiple roots and brached out tap. Second from left and right had its roots in a knot to keep them short but that damaged (broke) them.
> 
> I have nothing against fem seed for growing, I rather just not use them for breeding because there are still too many unknowns, else I'd still be running fem seeds (or clones) myself.
> 
> ...


WOW! Those are some beautiful plants you have there S. My favorite pic is the 3rd from right (worthy of a weed rag cover).

Are you saying 40 plants under a 400W MH?

Cheers, 

A~~~


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## Sativied (Dec 1, 2015)

Thanks, and yes, well, 38, 4x4' under 400 watt. Roughly half are male, removed most of those already. I had 50 at first but moved 12 back to my veg box cause it was getting too full. I can fit 50 plants (roughly 9 x 9) in there, 36 single cola plants works better (6x6 plants), but the 400 watt doesn't cover the corners and two edges very well so I had to switch to 600w. Normally I wouldn't put this many plants in there, doing another selection run for whorled phyllotaxy plants, a trait that shows during veg already, so I won't actually flower that many, more like 20, of which most are single cola plants.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 1, 2015)

Those are exactly what I have always wanted since starting. Single donkey cola's crammed together.


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## Sativied (Dec 1, 2015)

Little over 20 in the right half of my flower closet/ Left in corner is a heavily cropped plant, different cross. Not a good example of a SoG though, the single cola thing is mostly because it was so crammed in there it became a battle between the terminal buds only, covering all the side shoots with a thick canopy leaving those behind. Hash farmers in Pakistan supposedly selected towards wide leaves to get the same effect. Works for afghani and kush perhaps but once you start doing that with sativa hybrids they stretch a lot and isn't much of a cola anymore. Hybrids should imo always have narrow leaflets but then I normally do like the branching.

....Oops I did it again. Kicked (literally...) my timer to "On" last night, didn't notice till it had nearly 18 hours light instead of 12... Not happy with that since they are transitioning but well, if there are any light sensitive hermies in there I rather find them asap.



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Those are exactly what I have always wanted since starting. Single donkey cola's crammed together.


I think that may prove to be impossible in NFT unless you use short indicas from clone or even autos. I'm also starting to think that 12/12 from seed is not the best way to go and vegging for 3 weeks minimum will actually make them mature thus flower faster. Could differ per strain, but I strongly get the impression that's the case. I determine sex within 25-28 days veg (of which first 2 weeks on 24 hrs light to keep them tight) on 4 different crosses.

To get similar results in the octagon, with seeds, I would veg for a few weeks, till they have 4-5 nodes. That's often where the first preflowers appear. Then top them down to only 4 branches (not necessarily the bottom two nodes, just 4 best branches), then after 1-3 days switch to 12/12. That way you put more mature plants in flower, have a good root mass already and with the fast veg rates in nft it will more or less be as fast, if not faster than on 12/12 from start. Veg a week extra, but transition a week faster.

That single cola plant in the hempy bottle is partly single cola because it's a narrow tall container, instead of wide and short. Hydroponics, in tubes and buckets alike, the roots have plenty of space to grow and seem to act as if they are in a wide large containers, contributing to the plants becoming wider too. SkunkD0c's grows are probably the best examples of that.


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 1, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I was hoping I could create a poll from here but I guess I can't. I'm skeptical that the 3" x 10" pots are going to work but because I can get 16 of them per sq/ft I had to try. I feel pretty good that the 4" x 12" pots are going to be fine as they are relatively comparable to the 2L Hempy's that a lot of people use.
> 
> 3" Pots - What do you think? Total failure? Total Success? No Idea?


The suspense is *KILLING ME*,! I shall read on.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 1, 2015)

Oregon Gardener said:


> The suspense is *KILLING ME*,! I shall read on.


Haha...it's going to be long read my friend


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 1, 2015)

@Sativied

Everything you said makes perfect sense. In my very 1st chapter, the plants did grow straight up and many had little if any side branches. The ones that had side branches stuck closely to the main stem. The close proximity to one another plus the skinny tall pots being the reason.

I think I've decided to modify the design for the next run so I can test my new LED which I will unveil soon. Perhaps take 3 sections of tubing and place them parallel to one another spaced 1 foot or a little more apart. Maybe do 6 or 7 feet long. I'll try vegging per your suggestion and not do 12/12. This will help combat my cold temp situation too so I could start this earlier than otherwise planned.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 1, 2015)

My next picture update will be Friday...flowering day 45 and I wanted to bring up a topic and get everyone's thoughts. Those of you that have been around in this journal for a while know that I like to experiment a lot with bulbs. This 4th chapter is the 1st time that I have not done much experimenting. Since the girls starting flowering, I have had a 1000 Watt HPS on top and a 600 Watt HPS on the bottom and I am thrilled with how they are performing. (Hortilux Super HPS bulbs).

Having already done a full grow with MH only (Chapter 1), I can attest to the great resin production that MH can provide. That said, the resin production that I am currently seeing appears to be on par with that. What are your thoughts on introducing MH on or around day 45?

These are all of the MH bulbs that I currently own:
Hortilux Eye Blue
SolisTek 6K
SolisTek10K


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## Sativied (Dec 1, 2015)

Nearly all those seeminlgy extra frosty mh buds, including my own, appear to be extra leafy as well. Seems to be more meat on hps buds, which covers the leaves more including the most frosty parts... All just perception though, but I think that's largely true for people 'seeing' more frost under mh.

I use the mh for veg and usually part or most of the transition period, and then flower under hps.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 1, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Nearly all those seeminlgy extra frosty mh buds, including my own, appear to be extra leafy as well. Seems to be more meat on hps buds, which covers the leaves more including the most frosty parts... All just perception though, but I think that's largely true for people 'seeing' more frost under mh.
> 
> I use the mh for veg and usually part or most of the transition period, and then flower under hps.


I definitely concur about the additional leafiness. I saw this in Chapter 3 when I brought MH on board a little too early. Alright...I have not run 100% HPS yet so this seems like the perfect time then. I'll keep those MH's on the shelf for now.


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## jigfresh (Dec 2, 2015)

I agree, especially because you are not lacking in frost. I think my is best applied early in flower vs. late. Get the tricks marching in with the my, then smack them with the how to build the weight towards the end.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 4, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update - Part #1
Day 89
Flowering ~ Day 45*

We're looking good!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 4, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update - Part #2: Closeups
Day 89
Flowering ~ Day 45*
*
    *


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 4, 2015)

On Day #40 (5 days ago) I brushed up against plant #21: Top Row furthest to the right and of her branches fell over. Instead of tying her I just decided to chop the branch. It represented about 25% of the plant. After 4 1/2 days of drying and then 12 hours in a jar here is what some of it looks like: It's very leafy and not much meat which is to be expected for being almost 3 weeks pre-mature but check out the resin!


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## DirtyNerd (Dec 4, 2015)

Looking great brother thing Round 4 is kicking some ass looks like everything is going to plan the girls look super healthy keep up the great work  i am only a week off looking forward to trying some new smoke 

Did you grow the garlic lemon OG... ? from HSO it is smelling awesome stunk the room out with garlic felt like a wog but now its really taken over the lemon smell i don't like touching my girls but i just get stop smelling it keep up the great work brother i am moving in a month in to the woods so going to get some outdoor girls going


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 4, 2015)

1 week....is that until chop or until drying is done and you can try it? I did not do the Garlic lemon OG...sounds amazing though. I'll poke in today and see what you've got going on 

Congrats on the move...I also live in the woods and love it!


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## drgroove (Dec 4, 2015)

Hi HDS 

Amazing again ! and beautiful too


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## DirtyNerd (Dec 4, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> 1 week....is that until chop or until drying is done and you can try it? I did not do the Garlic lemon OG...sounds amazing though. I'll poke in today and see what you've got going on
> 
> Congrats on the move...I also live in the woods and love it!


i have never done a OG before she is my first of many love her packing on some super hard colas next time ill train her a little better stretch was around 130% from flip she was main lined so she is doing well but mixed in with 2 others so i think main line is better if you can space them out a little more and maybe use a more powerful light as they 600 is doing okay but i think they would be huge under a 1000W yeah my partner is a farm girl so we will be growing a lot of our own food and getting some cows and good stuff like that try live as much off the grid as we can


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 9, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update - Part #1
Day 94
Flowering ~ Day 50*

Things are going great. I've tapered off the strength of the feed a little bit as we head into the home stretch. Over the last 2 weeks I was feeding pretty aggressively and got up as high as 680 PPM's and I started to see signs of burn so I backed it down to around 650. Over the last 5 days I've been reducing and am now sitting at 560 PPM.

I'm expecting to start the harvest in 5 or 6 more days.

Pictures will be spread across two posts.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 9, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update - Part #2
Day 94
Flowering ~ Day 50*
*
...Pictures Continued

     *


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## Alaric (Dec 9, 2015)

Pat yourself on the back and say "self, well done".

I can only imagine how good it smells in there.

Is your ppm meter .7 conversion?

I don't envy you getting those roots out of those holes.

Again, nice job.

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 9, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Pat yourself on the back and say "self, well done".
> 
> I can only imagine how good it smells in there.
> 
> ...


Yes, it's a .7 conversion. The smell has always been strong for my 4 grows but this one is especially stanky. I thought my large carbon filter was starting to fail but as it turned out it was just me stinking. I can go into the room for as little as 1 minute and without touching anything come out of the room and I will stink for at least an hour. Not terrible or anything but enough that it's on me and noticeable.

I'll be sure to tell you how the root removal goes and hopefully get some pictures. Not sure how I'm going to do it yet


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## Alaric (Dec 9, 2015)

Careful -----I once had a chic at a convenience store say "you smell yummy" and just grinned. Wasn't cologne either.

Can you take the ends off your tubes?

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 9, 2015)

Alaric said:


> Careful -----I once had a chic at a convenience store say "you smell yummy" and just grinned. Wasn't cologne either.
> 
> Can you take the ends off your tubes?
> 
> A~~~


No...the ends won't come off.
 

Where the clear 2 inch tubing connects to the fixture...that comes off. So I won't be able to get my hands inside the tubes but at least I can easily isolate each row.
I'l let you know how it goes.


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## Sativied (Dec 9, 2015)

If you let the roots dry a bit (don't water the last day helps speed that up) they come out a lot easier. Most of the weight is water, dried it's very light. I used to pull out the roots of one tube through a single plant site with little effort. Did have to literally chop out a plant once, bottom of the stem inside the tube didn't fit through the hole anymore but I vegged way too long that run so was more user error than a system flaw. 

Some of the buds look like they can use more than 5-6 days and still got some swelling up to do. Since you grow from seed it may be wise to harvest in at least two stages. Anyway, congrats on great run, it's been a pleasure following this run again. 

Oh and please let me know whether your roots smell like licorice or carrots/roots/veggies.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 9, 2015)

Sativied said:


> If you let the roots dry a bit (don't water the last day helps speed that up) they come out a lot easier. Most of the weight is water, dried it's very light. I used to pull out the roots of one tube through a single plant site with little effort. Did have to literally chop out a plant once, bottom of the stem inside the tube didn't fit through the hole anymore but I vegged way too long that run so was more user error than a system flaw.
> 
> Some of the buds look like they can use more than 5-6 days and still got some swelling up to do. Since you grow from seed it may be wise to harvest in at least two stages. Anyway, congrats on great run, it's been a pleasure following this run again.
> 
> Oh and please let me know whether your roots smell like licorice or carrots/roots/veggies.


Ok...will do!

And you're right, there are several plants that look like they will need much more time to finish. I'm not really in a rush this time as I don't have seedlings waiting to go in. It's going to be sticky Christmas this year


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## Alaric (Dec 9, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> So I won't be able to get my hands inside the tubes but at least I can easily isolate each row.
> I'l let you know how it goes.


I'm pretty sure you know my solution to that problem.

If you're planning to continue running that configuration----one possible way to access the tube ends (get your hand / arm in) replace your end caps that (I assume) are glued on with rubber end caps that's pretty easy to remove.

I agree with S----thanks for letting us ride along.

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 9, 2015)

Alaric said:


> I'm pretty sure you know my solution to that problem.
> 
> If you're planning to continue running that configuration----one possible way to access the tube ends (get your hand / arm in) replace your end caps that (I assume) are glued on with rubber end caps that's pretty easy to remove.
> 
> ...


I need to find end caps like the ones you use. After running this configuration, I really like the 2 inch 45 degree elbows...if I could incorporate those with the rubber end caps that would be ideal!

Overall I am pretty happy with this configuration but I will be taking it apart after this run. I've been building my own LED's so what I'm thinking about doing is still using PVC tubes but lay them out in a more traditional fashion with overhead lighting. Still thinking about it...not exactly sure what I'm going to do yet.


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## Alaric (Dec 9, 2015)

End caps----Check this place out AquaticEcoSystems lots of great toys and a very nice free catalog with lots of tech talk about pumps and such. looks like a 6" cap cost 15.45 ea.

http://pentairaes.com/quick-caps.html

A~~~


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 13, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update - Part #1
Day 98
Flowering ~ Day 54*

Looking great still! This is proving to be an exercise in extreme patience for me. I want to start chopping them! I took one branch this morning and did a thorough inspection and nope...not done yet. So far I've only had to tie up 3 branches. It has become nearly impossible to go into the octagon though...just no room left to move around.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 13, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update - Part #2
Day 98
Flowering ~ Day 54*
*
...Pictures Continued

       *


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 15, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update - Part #1
Day 100
Flowering ~ Day 56*

Fresh reservoir change today. Increased the nutes just a tad. Running @600PPM and 5.8 PH on the dot. Since Sunday, I've taken a few branches here and there...not many.
I'm going day to day now inspecting plants and looking for ones to take. I don't expect I'll take anything for another 3 days or so and some of them still need quite a bit of time.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 15, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update - Part #2
Day 100
Flowering ~ Day 56*
*
...Pictures Continued...

         *


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## potheadextraordinaire (Dec 15, 2015)

Such a great Journal.


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## Alaric (Dec 16, 2015)

Hey HDS,

Congrats on the "Skunk works"----- big improvement over 1st round.

Curious about the final yield (weight).

Have you decided on a plan of attack for the next round? Still planning to switch to LEDs?

A~~~


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## jigfresh (Dec 16, 2015)

I hope so, I can't wait to see someone do this kinda thing with LED's.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 17, 2015)

Quick Update.

Today is Day 58 flower and the official harvest day has been set for this Sunday. I've managed to get 2 helper which is going to be awesome...I'm going to need it. I expect Chapter 4 bounty to be my best by far. Much improved weight and the quality is on par with what I got in Chapter 1...excellent.

Here are a few pictures of some small buds I took on or around day 53. They will be manicured tomorrow and then begin the cure process.
(I should have waited until Lights out...sorry for the sub par quality)

    

@Alaric 
I will finally be able to get official weights and pictures of Chapter 3 harvest tomorrow afternoon


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## Sativied (Dec 17, 2015)

Damn... Now that is some attractive looking Skunk #1. Those with the blue background are Frostiest bud thread material.

Isn't it amazing what base nutes in an efficient nft system can do...


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 17, 2015)

If anyone would like to chime in and give feedback on the end strategy, please feel free to do so.

There are 2 things I've never done:
A) Given them an extended period of darkness leading up to harvest
B) "Flushed". I spent countless hours studying this topic way back in Chapter 1 and decided that flushing made no sense to me.

My current nutrient strength is on the upper band of what I've been running...~580 PPM.

I generally add about 5 gallons of fresh water per day with A&B. Any thoughts on simply doing my final top-offs with water only? A water only top-off will reduce the PPM by roughly 50 to 60 PPM's.

My current light schedule is on at 7:15 AM and off at 6:45 PM (11.5 on, 12.5 off). Harvest time is noon Sunday so my initial thought is just unplug the lights when they turn off Saturday night and come sunday, I will harvest after they have had roughly 17 hours of darkness. But I'm considering adding 1 more full day of darkness to this...any thoughts?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 17, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Damn... Now that is some attractive looking Skunk #1. Those with the blue background are Frostiest bud thread material.
> 
> Isn't it amazing what base nutes in an efficient nft system can do...


Sure is man...sure is. And I have you to thank for that. I was skeptical but trusted you and stuck with it. I also did not stick a MH bulb in once during flowering...as tempting as it was 
Those pictures don't even do the resin justice...I will get much better pictures...I promise.


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## Sativied (Dec 17, 2015)

It's been very rewarding to see you have success with your system especially considering the work and thought you put in to it. I look forward to seeing more pics.

I would not do A because they won't be just in the dark, they would be in the dark with their feet wet. They will soak up water to the max but not transpire it as much as under light. For me, it would be a quick way to get budrot (though I got to add that shit is just in the air here). So I don't turn off the light until they are chopped, and then they go into the dark and don't abruptly stop just because they are chopped. I do think it's best to harvest after a night but multiple days I would avoid in hydroponic anyway.

As for B, during both the high ppm and low ppm runs I always ended very low, letting the res (nutes) deplete or help that by adding water.

There's flushing and there's flushing... Which is still an understatement. Flushing, one of the acts that could be described as flushing anyway, in nft works rather well. If you would empty the rez, fill it with RO water, and recirculate through that root mass it definitely won't come out at 0ppm. So you can effectively flush nutrients from the root space, much more effective than trying to leach nutrient elements from soil or any other medium. That will force it to use its reserves, of which they got plenty to last to sunday.

Long story short, I would no longer add nutes and would let the ppm drop towards 300 or less for the past 2-3 days. Not because otherwise the bud will taste harsh or w/e, but because I'm cheap and it saves nutes and it won't cost a gram.

I usually don't put a lot of value in what nutrient manufacturers say but H&G does recommend a flushing period of 2-3 days if I remember correctly for the hydro and aquaflakes. Whether it helps anything is up for debate, but giving them only water for the past several days isn't going to affect yield or quality negatively either.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 17, 2015)

Sativied said:


> It's been very rewarding to see you have success with your system especially considering the work and thought you put in to it. I look forward to seeing more pics.
> 
> I would not do A because they won't be just in the dark, they would be in the dark with their feet wet. They will soak up water to the max but not transpire it as much as under light. For me, it would be a quick way to get budrot (though I got to add that shit is just in the air here). So I don't turn off the light until they are chopped, and then they go into the dark and don't abruptly stop just because they are chopped. I do think it's best to harvest after a night but multiple days I would avoid in hydroponic anyway.
> 
> ...


Sweet...thanks! My last rez change was Tuesday. I'll go ahead and do another one tomorrow with no nutes and PH'd only. I'll probably skip the ZONE too then. My well water comes in around ~250.
I had not considered the "Wet Feet" comment so I definitely won't do that then. I can't wait...I haven't been as excited about this harvest since Chapter 1


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## jigfresh (Dec 18, 2015)

I've never done the dark period thing, as sativied mentioned I worried I'd get rot with them sitting in the dark for a long time.

I have always flushed, aka used only water late in the cycle. I've never seen any problems with it. I don't know that it helps either, but in my head why keep using nutrients that cost me money on my plants that seem to already have all the goodies they need for the last week or so.

When I 'flush' I still use zone and silica.

Great job so far.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 18, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update - Part #1
Day 103
Flowering ~ Day 59*

2 More days until harvest day


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 18, 2015)

I just did a full reservoir change and used only plain water. My well water comes in around ~250PPM and after the change, we're sitting at 380PPM. I decided not to add anything at all to the water including ZONE. Water temps remain in the mid to high 60's and with only 2 days to go I just did not feel it was needed.


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## jigfresh (Dec 18, 2015)

Happy trimming pal.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 18, 2015)

jigfresh said:


> Happy trimming pal.


The part I hate. Well...I love it for about 30 minutes and then I hate it. I have 2 helpers this time so it's going to go much much faster!


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## jigfresh (Dec 18, 2015)

I know the feeling. It's such a shitty job. I've only had help twice and both times they didn't trim well enough for my tastes. Granted I've never harvested anything like the mountain you are facing. And it doesn't look like it will be very easy as everything looks as frosty as possible. Lots of scissor hash in your future. It's funny because i'm running 16 strains too, which at the beginning seemed like so much fun, and now I'm intimidated by the job ahead of not only trimming it all, but testing it all as well.  I'm sure that part wont be so bad. haha


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 18, 2015)

Neither of my helpers has ever trimmed before so I'm still formulating my plan. I'm capable of doing a great job but usually do a shitty job partly because I'm lazy and partly because I just hate trimming. I might pose the task in a similar way that detasseling corn is done. Person A will do all of the big fans and all of the easy secondary fans. Pass it off to person 2 who digs in a little deeper to get those harder to find stems. And then pass them off to me for the final manicure and hang.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 21, 2015)

*Chapter 4 Update - Harvest Time!*

Harvesting took place over Saturday and Sunday...days 104/105 and flowering days 60/61. It was a huge undertaking and the amount is staggering! After 21 man hours, here is what the room looks like right after we stopped. I ran out of hangers but have more coming on Wednesday. Ended up with ( 8 ) 26 site hangers, (3) 12 site hangers and then 5 layers of hanging racks. Most of what is in the hanging racks is yet to be trimmed...that will be dealt with over the next 2 days.

Temps in the room are 59 degrees and RH is at 40%. I'm going to bring in a 1K heater and get the room up into the mid 60's. My goal is to get a 8 to 9 day hang time and I should be able to get this with low to mid 60's. I'll use my dehumidifier as needed. The sheer quantity and quality of this harvest is breathtaking. Easily my best effort.


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## DirtyNerd (Dec 21, 2015)

It's a thing of beauty great job my brother love your work


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## GroErr (Dec 21, 2015)

Awesome grow/thread HDS, ho, ho, ho! Santa arrived a little early


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## numberfour (Dec 21, 2015)

Great harvest HDS


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## Alaric (Dec 21, 2015)

Hey HDS,

Almost to the final $tep for this round.

May your final weight be plea$ing.

Curious to see what's up for the next round (configuration).

A~~~


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## bf80255 (Dec 21, 2015)

whos on deck??


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Dec 21, 2015)

Thanks for all the love everyone!

As for plans...nothing set in stone yet. I'm going to get this stuff all dried up the best I can and get a lot of pictures and weights and then go from there.


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## jigfresh (Dec 21, 2015)

I think I have an idea of your upcoming plans.....


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## Sativied (Jan 5, 2016)

Bump!

How's it going HDS, hope you had a great holiday season.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 5, 2016)

Sativied said:


> Bump!
> 
> How's it going HDS, hope you had a great holiday season.


It's going great...hope you did too. I am only days away from posting final numbers


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 5, 2016)

The way the harvest went, I ran out of hangers so we basically had the 1st cut and then the 2nd cut. The 2nd cut dried out on a large 5 level circular drying rack.

The 1st cut ended up being exactly 1218 grams - 43 1/2 ounces - 2.71 Pounds.
The 2nd cut is still out being processed (I hired this out). I don't want to speculate but the 2nd cut should be no less than 1 pound but unlikely more than 1.5 pounds.


----------



## Mohican (Jan 6, 2016)

I will drink to that!


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 7, 2016)

Harvest Cleanup Update

It took a while for the roots dry up and today I decided to time how long clean-up would take and take a good close look inside the tubes to see how mucked up they were. To my surprise, the tubes were spotless. Completely clean! To remove the roots, I simply yanked on each plant until I could get my shears underneath the net pot and cut the tap roots. Once that was done (about 5 minutes), the roots pulled out of the tubes with very little effort. In 10 minutes I was able to remove all 63 plants and dispose of the roots in a single 5 gallon bucket. Sure beats the hell out of hundreds and hundreds of pounds of coco or dirt! At this point, the only thing I need to do is run some fresh water thru it to remove some of the root *dust* and it's ready to go again!

@Sativied The dry roots smell like produce or vegetables. Interesting 

Here are a couple of jars...I'm waiting on a new freezer before these go into storage for a bit.


----------



## Sativied (Jan 7, 2016)

Glad to hear it work out well for you. The lack of waste and ease of cleanup is definitely a huge plus, having only plant material as waste makes it even more attractive.

Some companies make a ton of money grinding up hemp roots to powder and selling it as superfood.



Hot Diggity Sog said:


> At this point, the only thing I need to do is run some fresh water thru it to remove some of the root *dust* and it's ready to go again!


I always added a good amount of bleach flushing it after cleanup. Not sure if necessary but since it costs little to nothing better safe than sorry.

I look forward to follow your next project.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 9, 2016)

Hey everyone,

It's time to start planning for the next round. With the success of the octagon, I feel it is important to run one more round without changing anything to confirm that it was not a fluke or luck.
That said, it is time to pick a strain. If anyone would like to suggest a strain that I can get from Attitude Seeds (Feminized only), I would love to hear from you.


----------



## gand3r (Jan 9, 2016)

HDS,

Sorry if already posted in this amazing thread, ive only started to reads it 

What additives do you use, do you run any root conditioner (Uc roots) or benifical bacteria?


----------



## Alaric (Jan 9, 2016)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> It's time to start planning for the next round. With the success of the octagon, I feel it is important to run one more round without changing anything to confirm that it was not a fluke or luck.
> That said, it is time to pick a strain. If anyone would like to suggest a strain that I can get from Attitude Seeds (Feminized only), I would love to hear from you.


I don't think it's a fluke or luck-----just good ole dedication and attention to detail.

Curious about your final yield?

As for a new strain, I got some fem critical kush from attitude-----no gripes about how it performed during growth, good smoke also.

Never grown the blue dream-----only read good things about it-----liked the smoke a lot.

How strong was the skunk smell compared to others you've grown?

A~~~


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 9, 2016)

Alaric said:


> I don't think it's a fluke or luck-----just good ole dedication and attention to detail.
> 
> Curious about your final yield?
> 
> ...


Don't have the secondary stuff back yet from the person I hired to trim it. He's dragging his feet a little. 2.7 pounds not including that...will let you know as soon as I know.
This Skunk #1 was the strongest smelling run to date for me. Empty jars are enough to destroy a room


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 9, 2016)

gand3r said:


> HDS,
> 
> Sorry if already posted in this amazing thread, ive only started to reads it
> 
> What additives do you use, do you run any root conditioner (Uc roots) or benifical bacteria?


For the octagon(s), I kept it very simple.

House & Garden Aqua Flakes A&B
EC/PPM's kept very very low...under 1.0 EC the entire time.

PH Down and PH Up although I began using Silica and/or CalMag anytime I needed to raise the PH. Raising PH was only ever needed for the last couple of days before a reservoir change. For whatever reason, PH would start to rapidly drop 5 to 6 days after changing the reservoir.

Aside from that, the only additive I ever used was Dutch Master Gold ZONE.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 9, 2016)

Well...as you guys can probably imagine, I have quite a variety of seeds now. I guess I'll go with one of the HSO strains again. Either Blue Dream, Sour Blueberry or Blueberry Headband. I should have around 30 or so of each so I won't need to order that much.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 9, 2016)

Well...scratch that. I only have 11 Blue Dream seeds...not the 30ish I thought I had. Still open to any and all seed suggestions.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 10, 2016)

Alright everyone...the next chapter is set. I will be taking a detour this chapter to revisit some techniques from the 1st chapter and to also test out my new LED that I built.
Over the last few days I've really convinced myself that I need to try out some Kush strains (based on some negative Skunk #1 feedback that I received primarily).

At any rate, I have chosen to go with Cali Connection and just ordered the following:

(12) Larry OG Kush
(12) Tahoe OG Kush
(12) SFV OG Kush

The foot print for this round will be roughly 3' x 10'. As long as I get 30 out of the 36 seeds to sprout then I'll be at 1 plant per sq/ft.
The lighting will consist of (2) 600 Watt HID's and my LED which pulls 392 watts out of the wall...(16) Cree CXB3590 3000K

The octagon will be simply be on vacation for this round...more on this later.


----------



## jigfresh (Jan 11, 2016)

Larry OG is a great plant.  I love the smell and the smoke.


----------



## Corso312 (Jan 11, 2016)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Well...scratch that. I only have 11 Blue Dream seeds...not the 30ish I thought I had. Still open to any and all seed suggestions.




Love to see a run of DNA lemon skunk or Dynasty Salmon River. 

Great job btw


----------



## Oregon Gardener (Jan 11, 2016)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Alright everyone...the next chapter is set. I will be taking a detour this chapter to revisit some techniques from the 1st chapter and to also test out my new LED that I built.
> Over the last few days I've really convinced myself that I need to try out some Kush strains (based on some negative Skunk #1 feedback that I received primarily).
> 
> At any rate, I have chosen to go with Cali Connection and just ordered the following:
> ...


I had a Larry O.G clone in my garden once, but regretfully didn't propagate it.I was another patients plant. It was planted late in a 10 gallon bag of used soil.....I know, I tried to tell em' too. Anyway It yealded a couple of the dankest ozs that ever came out of the garden. I always wanted another shot at that one.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 11, 2016)

Thanks everyone and @Oregon Gardener woohoo...hope I have a similar success story with it.

I'll be starting to prep my room today. At this point, I think I'm going to take (3) 10 foot PVC tubes and use the same NFT style/approach. I'm probably 2 weeks away from go time so more updates as I have them.

Also just got word from my trimmer...he will be finished this weekend so I can post final Chapter 4 numbers.


----------



## Alaric (Jan 11, 2016)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Thanks everyone and
> 
> I think I'm going to take (3) 10 foot PVC tubes and use the same NFT style/approach.




6" schedule 40 pvc tubes?

A~~~


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 11, 2016)

Alaric said:


> 6" schedule 40 pvc tubes?
> 
> A~~~


I'm going to use the same tubes I've been using. Schedule 35 4".
For this layout, 6" would likely be better but I'm not convinced it would make all that much difference.


----------



## bf80255 (Jan 13, 2016)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Thanks everyone and @Oregon Gardener woohoo...hope I have a similar success story with it.
> 
> I'll be starting to prep my room today. At this point, I think I'm going to take (3) 10 foot PVC tubes and use the same NFT style/approach. I'm probably 2 weeks away from go time so more updates as I have them.
> 
> Also just got word from my trimmer...he will be finished this weekend so I can post final Chapter 4 numbers.


youll definitely like the larry bro, deep musky ass dank smells and hard ass pretty nugs!


----------



## sky rocket (Jan 16, 2016)

Oh im curious to know what medium will you be using for the Cali connection beans?


----------



## dazzyballz (Jan 16, 2016)

Jus


Hot Diggity Sog said:


> 1 week....is that until chop or until drying is done and you can try it? I did not do the Garlic lemon OG...sounds amazing though. I'll poke in today and sewhat you've got going on
> 
> Congrats on the move...I also live in the woods and love it!


 Just finished the lemon garlic og by humbolt very small plant with couple of balls early in flower.small 20g yield.nice stash gear though curing it completly changes smell.sorry to interupt


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 17, 2016)

Final Yield in for Chapter 4.
3.5 Pounds
56 Ounces
1568 Grams

Just shy of 1 gram per watt.
24.8 Grams per plant

By far my best effort but I have to say...I'm a little disappointed still.

I think the best course of action moving forward is:
1) Increase the diameter of the octagon by about 18 inches. This will allow more space between each plant as well as safely accommodate a 1000 watt instead of a 600 watt
2) Bring the 4th row into play. (2) 1000's will certainly be able to adequately light all 4 rows.
3) Find a clever way to build the 8th side. I have some ideas and this will allow an additional 12 plants over the 7 sides.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Jan 17, 2016)

sky rocket said:


> Oh im curious to know what medium will you be using for the Cali connection beans?


I was considering using perlite or possibly coco and perlite but will be sticking with the NFT using 4 Inch PVC Tubes again. Lots of updates and pictures will be coming as I get prepared.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 17, 2016)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Final Yield in for Chapter 4.
> 3.5 Pounds
> 56 Ounces
> 1568 Grams
> ...


Pulling big numbers from vertical grows isn't as easy at it looks. In fact, it's hard enough that most people go back to flatlander grows.

Have you considered an additional 600W lamp? I'm pretty disappointed in my thouies, nevermind the '860W' CDM.


----------



## Alaric (Jan 17, 2016)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Final Yield in for Chapter 4.
> 3.5 Pounds
> 56 Ounces
> 1568 Grams
> ...


Bravo 

A~~~


----------



## Alaric (Jan 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Pulling big numbers from vertical grows isn't as easy at it looks. In fact, it's hard enough that most people go back to flatlander grows.
> 
> Have you considered an additional 600W lamp? I'm pretty disappointed in my thouies, nevermind the '860W' CDM.


Do you mean you're disappointed with 860 CDM?

A~~~


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 18, 2016)

Alaric said:


> Do you mean you're disappointed with 860 CDM?
> 
> A~~~


Here's the scoop; they do a a fine job of growing plants, once you get past the vertical only orientation. On the other hand, on my 240V single phase service, the two I tested on my Kill-a-watt and the magnetic ballasts they ran on were pulling between 1079 and 1103W each. This doesn't jibe at all well with the advertised wattage savings. I believe my lamps are simply being overdriven and I'm getting the same electrical consumption as of I were running thouies on those same magnetic ballasts. 

Part of this is the lamp, but much blame for the inefficiency must be laid at the feet of magnetic ballast technology. It's very inefficient itself and also drives the lamp relatively poorly. I'm making my COB LED purchase specifically to turn my back on this kind of excessive power consumption and its attendant heat consequences.


----------



## DirtyNerd (Jan 18, 2016)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Final Yield in for Chapter 4.
> 3.5 Pounds
> 56 Ounces
> 1568 Grams
> ...


Congrsts on the yield my friend it will only get better and better every run so keep things going always enjoyable to watch


----------



## Mohican (Jan 19, 2016)

Look at using a light mover to lower and raise the light. Check with @whodatnation - he had two octagons going at once with a light mover.


----------



## Sativied (Feb 9, 2016)

*bump*

Any updates on your adventures?


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 9, 2016)

Sativied said:


> *bump*
> 
> Any updates on your adventures?


Yup...Chapter 5 is officially on day 6. I'm not finished with the setup quite yet. Official release coming within days.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 9, 2016)

So here's the short summary of the setup.
9' x 3' using (2) 600 watt HID's and my 392 watt LED build (LED is in the middle)

(3) Tubes with 9 sites each for a total of 27 plants. Spacing is 12 inches square for each plant.
I WONT be doing 12/12 from seed this run. There will be a veg period...length TBD.


----------



## DirtyNerd (Feb 9, 2016)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> So here's the short summary of the setup.
> 9' x 3' using (2) 600 watt HID's and my 392 watt LED build (LED is in the middle)
> 
> (3) Tubes with 9 sites each for a total of 27 plants. Spacing is 12 inches square for each plant.
> ...


Looking awesome brother did you build that led your self What's the specs been wanting to build one for so long but to lazy


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 9, 2016)

DirtyNerd said:


> Looking awesome brother did you build that led your self What's the specs been wanting to build one for so long but to lazy


Thanks man. Room is still a pig sty but it will be nice and ready soon.

So the LED consists of (4) 4.9" x 34" heat sinks from Heatsinkusa.com The 2 outer ones are bolted to the aluminum L channel and the 2 inner ones are not...they simply rest on the rails. It would have been too unwieldy and heavy to try and hang by myself if all 4 were physically mounted so this was easier. The COB's are CREE CXB3590's - I went with 3000K spectrum. 4 per rail so 16 COB's total. I found the build to be pretty simple really...a lot easier than others have described. For example, drilling pilot holes and using self-tapping screws avoided the need to tap the holes. This was super easy and worked great. I also used solid 18 gauge wire which means no tinning and no soldering. 2 for 2 on those fronts.

I'll be happy to answer any questions on the LED...I'm excited to see how it works. It's fucking bright...I can tell you that!


----------



## DirtyNerd (Feb 9, 2016)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Thanks man. Room is still a pig sty but it will be nice and ready soon.
> 
> So the LED consists of (4) 4.9" x 34" heat sinks from Heatsinkusa.com The 2 outer ones are bolted to the aluminum L channel and the 2 inner ones are not...they simply rest on the rails. It would have been too unwieldy and heavy to try and hang by myself if all 4 were physically mounted so this was easier. The COB's are CREE CXB3590's - I went with 3000K spectrum. 4 per rail so 16 COB's total. I found the build to be pretty simple really...a lot easier than others have described. For example, drilling pilot holes and using self-tapping screws avoided the need to tap the holes. This was super easy and worked great. I also used solid 18 gauge wire which means no tinning and no soldering. 2 for 2 on those fronts.
> 
> I'll be happy to answer any questions on the LED...I'm excited to see how it works. It's fucking bright...I can tell you that!


Great I will pick your brain what drivers and voltage I need to stop being a tight ass and build one is it a passive cooling or did you add fans to the heatsinks also what size is the heat sink and if you dont mind me asking what was the total build cost Thanks


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 9, 2016)

DirtyNerd said:


> Great I will pick your brain what drivers and voltage I need to stop being a tight ass and build one is it a passive cooling or did you add fans to the heatsinks also what size is the heat sink and if you dont mind me asking what was the total build cost Thanks


I sized it so it could be cooled passively...hopefully. I wanna say around $1200 but I can go back and add it all up.

Here are the heatsink specs
http://www.heatsinkusa.com/4-900-wide-extruded-aluminum-heatsink/

Drivers
https://www.meanwell-web.com/en/product-info/ac-dc-power-supply/led-driver/gt-185-w-led-driver/hlg-185h-c/product/HLG-185H-C700A
2 of them...each one is doing 8 cobs.


----------



## DirtyNerd (Feb 9, 2016)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I sized it so it could be cooled passively...hopefully. I wanna say around $1200 but I can go back and add it all up.
> 
> Here are the heatsink specs
> http://www.heatsinkusa.com/4-900-wide-extruded-aluminum-heatsink/
> ...


Very cool thanks a lot that will help I might bite the bullet wish I didn't just buy two digital ballasts


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 11, 2016)

The girls have entered their rooting vessels now. Will be here for probably 10 to 14 days or so.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 24, 2016)

*Chapter 5
Day 21 Update*

Not too much to report really but I wanted to check in and show you guys how things are looking. The Tahoe OG's all got really burned and I'm not really sure why. They do happen to be the ones under the LED but I don't really think that's it. The burning happened after I did the first feeding...but I only fed at 110 PPM's. Maybe they are really sensitive to food??

Well...at any rate, all of their roots are doing great. Nice and healthy white so I'll just keep nursing them along for a little while..not too worried.

Lights have been on 24 hours a day since the start...it is kind of required with my ambient basement temps being at 48 degrees. To my surprise, I have not had to heat my rez. The water is coming out at 50 degrees F and within a few of hours it's at 69. Not using the chiller yet but I will have to sooner than expected.


----------



## Mohican (Feb 25, 2016)

I had the same thing happen to me with LEDs. I also had a pH issue. LEDs are intense and can fry young plants.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 25, 2016)

Mohican said:


> I had the same thing happen to me with LEDs. I also had a pH issue. LEDs are intense and can fry young plants.


Thanks man. I went ahead and turned the LED off for now. I'll keep the 2 MH's on 24 hours a day and maybe put the LED on a timer. 1 on, 2 off? Just until the girls get a little older. About 1/2 of the plants under the LED are starting to recover btw.


----------



## Alaric (Feb 26, 2016)

Hey HDS,

WOW-----you've been a busy boy (and spent several bucks).

I have a little experience with tube grows. No saying my methods are any better or worse-----just different

Very similar approach with that 3 tube configuration.
 

Question/s-------how are you delivering nutes in the tubes?

What are those black things the tubes are sitting on? They look kinda like the ones Sativied used.

Do you think those concrete blocks are necessary in the middle? If yes----wouldn't be needed using schedule 40.
 
^^Threw this pic up of two 10' sections end to end. Before I got the wall and door up between the veg and flower rooms.

Something I found useful are those 3/4" pipes running parallel to the 6" tubes (plant support / trellis)
 

Something else I found useful when running fixed position tubes. Add 2x4s at the corners and stretch a scorg screen over the canopy (streched with bungee cords that can be slid up/down)

^^Another shot of the trellis.

Just some things I've used.

A~~~


----------



## Sativied (Feb 26, 2016)

Alaric said:


> What are those black things the tubes are sitting on? They look kinda like the ones Sativied used.


PVC pipe clips, come in various shapes and sizes. Mine are more like this one






Prevents my (separate) tubes from rolling over.


----------



## Alaric (Feb 26, 2016)

^^ Hey S, been a while since we chatted. Hope everything is fine across the pond.

Thanks for identifying that part. I poked around and found those in 4" but not 6".

I've thought about using ~8" lengths of super strut with these straps.
link:
http://www.cesco.com/b2c/product/Unistrut-P1121EG-UNISTR-4IN-CONDUIT-CLAMP/76909

If that link worked, a pretty good example of what I talking about is shown on the right of the page.

Gad to see you're still around,

A~~~


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 27, 2016)

Alaric said:


> Hey HDS,
> 
> WOW-----you've been a busy boy (and spent several bucks).
> 
> ...


I'm delivering water and nutes this way: 3 pumps in the rez each providing the goods to one tube.
 

The black things are similar but not exactly what Sat is using. They are what I used to suspend each row of the octagon and are being used here just for some stability.

The concrete blocks are only used so the tubes would be at the same level as the rez when the water returns. The ones in the middle probably are not necessary but hey...overkill is OK.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 3, 2016)

*Chapter 5
Day 29 Update*

The girls don't really look all that great. I raised the lights up pretty high this morning to see if it's that. The roots on all of them are spectacular so I'm feeling pretty good that if the lights were just too close they will recover fine. They've been on 24 hours of light per day and I just installed timers and dropped them to 20 on and 4 off. Estimate maybe 2 more weeks before I flip them.

I began topping them 2 days ago and have only 2 left to top.


----------



## Alaric (Mar 3, 2016)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I'm delivering water and nutes this way: 3 pumps in the rez each providing the goods to one tube.
> View attachment 3618070
> 
> The black things are similar but not exactly what Sat is using. They are what I used to suspend each row of the octagon and are being used here just for some stability.
> ...


Hey HDS,

More specifically, are you running flood and drain type of system? I see only one port going to the tubes, if true, are the nutes flowing out the supply line back through your pumps in your rez/s?

IMO, good move to raise the light/s for now and run 20/4 or 18/6.

I hope you have a light meter-----if yes, would you please take a reading under your new LED light and determine at what distance is 10,000 foot candles (full sunlight intensity).

A~~~


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 3, 2016)

Alaric said:


> Hey HDS,
> 
> More specifically, are you running flood and drain type of system? I see only one port going to the tubes, if true, are the nutes flowing out the supply line back through your pumps in your rez/s?
> 
> ...


I'll try and take light readings tonight...good idea.

There are (3) sets of 1/2" tubing. Each one comes from the rez on it's own pump and flows to just one tube at the far end. The water from each tube flows back to the rez. Exact same thing as before except I have 3 feed pumps (one for each tube) instead of 1. If you refer to the 1st picture from today's post, the water enters the tube at the top of the picture and flows down to the bottom. All 3 tubes connect to one another at the bottom so there is only one pipe flowing back to the rez. It's really really simple...nothing special at all.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 18, 2016)

*Final Update
*
Chapter 5 has been ended early. We are packing up and moving across country. It has been a great ride and I really appreciate the support and feedback that you all gave me. I wish you all the best of luck and be safe!

HDS


----------



## Corso312 (Mar 18, 2016)

Wtf.. Hope nothing crazy happened, seems sudden.. Good luck though


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 18, 2016)

Corso312 said:


> Wtf.. Hope nothing crazy happened, seems sudden.. Good luck though


Nothing crazy happened but you're right...it is sudden.


----------



## Corso312 (Mar 18, 2016)

Ahh good 2 hear..Where ya headed to?


----------



## DogEatWeedWorld (Mar 18, 2016)

Good luck... Hopefully you'll be able to continue your hobby at the new locale!


----------



## Alaric (Mar 18, 2016)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Final Update
> *
> Chapter 5 has been ended early. We are packing up and moving across country. It has been a great ride and I really appreciate the support and feedback that you all gave me. I wish you all the best of luck and be safe!
> 
> HDS


Well, I hope your move is not too painful and you'll stay in touch.

(Did you have a chance to take those light readings?)

Sincerely,

A~~~


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 18, 2016)

If anyone is interested, I'm selling my custom LED that I built. Private message me...


----------



## DirtyNerd (Mar 19, 2016)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> If anyone is interested, I'm selling my custom LED that I built. Private message me...


Best of luck with the move my brother I hope the future brings only good things for you wish I could buy that light but the shipping would be nuts all the best hope to still see you around


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 9, 2018)

*Chapter 5 Update - Part #1*
Currently in the planning stage


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 14, 2018)

Meeting with an electrical engineer soon to help design this so it can pass inspection.


----------



## Mohican (Feb 14, 2018)

Make sure you have the correct wire colors.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 19, 2018)

Things are progressing nicely. I have secured the capital I need and this is about to get nuts. Applications for recreational licenses commence in T-Minus 7 weeks.
Final designs are still being negotiated but most likely I'm going to be running the POD design from chapter 4 but with one extra row. And the lower 600W watt will be replaced with a 1000W which means (2) 1000W bulbs and 4 rows per pod. ~16 Pods is the starting plan.


----------



## Mohican (Feb 21, 2018)

Have you looked into LEDs? Quantum boards are producing some killer buds.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Feb 21, 2018)

Mohican said:


> Have you looked into LEDs? Quantum boards are producing some killer buds.


Not yet and its probably beyond the scope for Year 1. But I am making room for LED R&D during year 1.


----------



## RoDDin (Feb 23, 2018)

subbed in. this is awesome!!


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 4, 2018)

Just a minor update guys. I've been experimenting with Cool Tubes and this is basically what I've come up with. I have two different products:
The Virtual Sun VSCR6000 and the iPower 6 inch cool tube (shown here). The VSCR's are quite a bit taller (not shown here).

I've settled on roughly the same POD design from before but just adding one more row for a total of 4 rows. I plan to use (2) of the VSCR's with 1000W HPS bulbs but if and when I encounter a strain that grows too far inward, then I am prepared to replace the tubes with the (3) iPower tubes using 600W HPS bulbs.



The basic idea here is that the carbon filter will serve as a foundation/base for the tubes to sit in. They will still need to be hung but more for stability and to prevent tipping. There will be a fan off somewhere connected to the top tube via flex duct sucking air. So the other purpose of the carbon filter is that clean air will be coming thru the tubes...hopefully will reduce the cleaning frequency.


----------



## UNkn0wn (Apr 5, 2018)

Wow. Took 2 days reading but i got through it all. 
All i can say is THANK YOU this is one of the best journals i have read.

One of the more educational ones thats for sure.

Good job sir


----------



## coreywebster (Sep 1, 2018)

Haha, I cheated and started on chapter 4...
Great set up man. Nice to see cool tubes been used for the system they seem to serve the best.
Awesome thread. Subbed, better late than never!


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 1, 2018)

coreywebster said:


> Haha, I cheated and started on chapter 4...
> Great set up man. Nice to see cool tubes been used for the system they seem to serve the best.
> Awesome thread. Subbed, better late than never!


This journal is pretty much finished. I don't know what's going to happen with the recreational thing. It's on hold.
But thank you!


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 1, 2018)

coreywebster said:


> Haha, I cheated and started on chapter 4...
> Great set up man. Nice to see cool tubes been used for the system they seem to serve the best.
> Awesome thread. Subbed, better late than never!


Depending on what you like, Chapter 1 is pretty cool and fun. Chapter 2 sucked. Chapter 3 was the birth of the octagon/nft idea and chapter 4 was a polished version of it. So 2 and 3 can prolly be skipped.


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## coreywebster (Sep 1, 2018)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Depending on what you like, Chapter 1 is pretty cool and fun. Chapter 2 sucked. Chapter 3 was the birth of the octagon/nft idea and chapter 4 was a polished version of it. So 2 and 3 can prolly be skipped.


I will defo go back to the beginning. I like a thread with a bit of positivity..


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## led1k (Oct 23, 2018)

Sativied said:


> "Know thy neighbor"
> http://5e.plantphys.net/article.php?id=236


Sorry I'm so late to the party but any chance an updated link?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 5, 2018)

led1k said:


> Sorry I'm so late to the party but any chance an updated link?


This thread has ended. My latest grow is in my signature. I will be starting a brand new journal in a few months - probably called something like "The Diggity Lab" or something cheezy like that. I've got all kinds of fun stuff in the works and I don't want to have journals spread out all over the place.


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## superman123 (Nov 5, 2018)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I've got all kinds of fun stuff in the works and I don't want to have journals spread out all over the place.


I cant wait!
you have some of the most interesting grow journals out there


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 5, 2018)

superman123 said:


> I cant wait!
> you have some of the most interesting grow journals out there


Thanks Super...that means a lot!


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## led1k (Nov 5, 2018)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> This thread has ended. My latest grow is in my signature. I will be starting a brand new journal in a few months - probably called something like "The Diggity Lab" or something cheezy like that. I've got all kinds of fun stuff in the works and I don't want to have journals spread out all over the place.


I've been following Chapter #4 and am amazed at your results! Can't wait for The Diggity Lab.


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## Anon25314 (Jul 29, 2019)

soon they will enter, THE OCTAGON!


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 29, 2019)

Anon25314 said:


> soon they will enter, THE OCTAGON!


It's been a minute since I've replied to this thread!


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## jzs147 (Aug 10, 2019)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> *Chapter 5
> Day 21 Update*
> 
> Not too much to report really but I wanted to check in and show you guys how things are looking. The Tahoe OG's all got really burned and I'm not really sure why. They do happen to be the ones under the LED but I don't really think that's it. The burning happened after I did the first feeding...but I only fed at 110 PPM's. Maybe they are really sensitive to food??
> ...



Fuck thats insane wish i haf room to try this sort of stuff


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## Lizard62 (Jun 4, 2020)

Hi from Tuscany, Italy. Is anyone still folowing this great post?


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## Lizard62 (Jun 4, 2020)

These are my strains, first attempt 12/12 fs, now at 6w from seedling, 1st w flowering
STRAIN No. indica sativa THC flow. days
white siberian 1 75 25 22 57
green crack 2 40 60 18 62
sour gorilla kush 1 65 35 20 65
blue dream 1 30 70 19 67
blueberry headband 3 70 30 21 67
double gorilla 1 50 50 26 75


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## Lizard62 (Jun 4, 2020)

Blue Dream hasnt still shown white preflowers... maybe because i did a little mistake on timer, 12 hours and 15 minutes light.. can it be?


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## Lizard62 (Jun 4, 2020)

My babies are on 3 10.5 liters pots, 40cm x 20 cm x 20 cm about, three each pot, under a 300w full spectrum led light (working really good previously) temp about 22-23 celsius and 50/70 % rh. Soil is 70% 6.5 ph soil added with 30% earthworm hummus


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## Lizard62 (Jun 4, 2020)

Constantly vented


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## Lizard62 (Jun 4, 2020)

Ventilated  there's nobody


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## Lizard62 (Jun 4, 2020)

Hi HDS... great job, great journal... ty


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## Mohican (Jun 4, 2020)

Got any pictures?


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## Lizard62 (Jun 5, 2020)

Mohican said:


> Got any pictures?


I'm going to get some today. They will be red, just because led lights change the real color, that is a great green btw, neither too pale nor too dark. Please wait for it. Now lights are off


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## Lizard62 (Jun 5, 2020)

Hi Mohican


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## Lizard62 (Jun 5, 2020)

Mohican said:


> Got any pictures?


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## Lizard62 (Jun 5, 2020)

Done in the dark with flash


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## jigfresh (Jun 5, 2020)

15 minutes of extra light won't make any difference. Some plants just take a lot longer than others. Sativas take the longest, and the blue dream is the most sativa or your strains, so it should take the longest all else being equal.


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## Lizard62 (Jun 5, 2020)

jigfresh said:


> 15 minutes of extra light won't make any difference. Some plants just take a lot longer than others. Sativas take the longest, and the blue dream is the most sativa or your strains, so it should take the longest all else being equal.


Effectively is my first time with a sativa dom. , BD is 70/30 I used to grow mostly indica strains.. i believed flowering was longer but starting at the same time. She will need more than 10 weeks to harvest, mid august i think. Thank you.


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## Lizard62 (Jun 5, 2020)

Btw i changed in 12/12 exactly (forgive my english)


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## Mohican (Jun 5, 2020)

With sativa you can go 11 hours lights on and 13 hours lights off.

Looks great!


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## Lizard62 (Jun 5, 2020)

Mohican said:


> With sativa you can go 11 hours lights on and 13 hours lights off.
> 
> Looks great!


Is it also good for indica doms?


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## Lizard62 (Jun 5, 2020)

I cropped most of lower branches and leaves, or I had a real jungle. I read 12/12 should give mostly a single big cola, but all plants developed significant branches. The tallest, a blueberry headband is about... 12" already with 4 lower branches I'm not able to cut .. other 2 same strain are much smaller, not more than 6", same pot, same light, same watering, cant understand why. 
The growroom is in an under roof attic. Theoretically they will be ready between 20 july and 10 august, I am afraid it will be too hot. Here in summer temps will be about 28/32 celsius during daytime... light are on from midnight to 12, leds dont heat too much, but im worrying about daytime temps. Cant buy any cooler... im unemployed now.. more vents would work for it?


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## Mohican (Jun 6, 2020)

Indica flowers quickly and doesn't need the extra push of 11/13.
Some hybrids I have grown will flower just by giving them bloom nutes!

Heat will be an issue. Can you get your hands on some insulation? Styrofoam room with some ice will stay cool


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## Lizard62 (Jun 7, 2020)

Growspace is surrounded by styrofoam already ... lol i'd need tons of ice! I could use those plastic camping "ice" but they stay cool a few hours only i should change them many times a day... heat will be higher when lights are off, during the day, nights, when lights are on, temp won't be higher than 26/28 celsius. I just started one month too late. Hope i will be able to manage it. Btw, if i had grown them under sunlight, during daytime temp would be much higher. Thanks bro for your support. Going to feed them now with 2cc/liter biobizz blooming nute.. see ya


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## Lizard62 (Jun 7, 2020)

Wow. Stretching and flowering good, except the sativa dom still nothing. The tallest blueberry headband got shiny resin drops already. Took off some leaves and lower branches... my hands smell a lot! I've lifted the lights a couple of inches, i have 30 inches more to reach the roof.. if they strech this way i'll have to bend them down. Now temp is 21 celsius, inside home i have 22. Where do you live Mohican? Is it legal in your state? Here is still forbidden, italy is a shitty country


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## Lizard62 (Jun 7, 2020)

Growers of the world are all brothers.


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## Mohican (Jun 7, 2020)

Cannabis loves the heat! You will be fine.


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## Lizard62 (Jun 8, 2020)

Mohican said:


> Cannabis loves the heat! You will be fine.


Not over 30/32 celsius expecially during flowering time.....


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## Mohican (Jun 8, 2020)

If it has water and a breeze it will keep itself cool enough.


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## Lizard62 (Jun 9, 2020)

Mohican said:


> If it has water and a breeze it will keep itself cool enough.


Water and breeze won't miss. 
Let me add sm new pics


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## Lizard62 (Jun 9, 2020)

Third pic is Blue Dream. I dont see any white hair......


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## jigfresh (Jun 9, 2020)

I live in southern spain... my plants didin't mind the summer heat, up to 38/40 some days. They were fine. Just make sure there is some air blowing over them, like a fan or something.

The blue dream will flower eventually... they all do.


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## Mohican (Jun 9, 2020)

Jig! Now you have an expert who can help you with your stealthy grow


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## Lizard62 (Jun 9, 2020)

Hola Jigfresh! I was in Sevilla last november, and in san jose de almeria 30 years ago..great land. Gracias, i had never grown indoor in summer cause i was afraid of high temps. I got vents enaugh to breeze them


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## Lizard62 (Jun 9, 2020)

Do you also are growing 12/12 from seed? Es la mia primera


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## jigfresh (Jun 9, 2020)

I have never gone 12/12 from seed that I can remember. I have grown indoors though... a few years back. That was when I lived in the mountains and had almost no sun. These days I'd prefer to save on electricity bills and use the big light in the sky.  I do miss my hydro setup though. Soil is sooooooo slooooowwww.


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## Lizard62 (Jun 10, 2020)

jigfresh said:


> I have never gone 12/12 from seed that I can remember. I have grown indoors though... a few years back. That was when I lived in the mountains and had almost no sun. These days I'd prefer to save on electricity bills and use the big light in the sky.  I do miss my hydro setup though. Soil is sooooooo slooooowwww.


Buenos dias Jig
I stopped too growing indoor for hps lamps consumed too much electricity. But led lamps not. With only 50 euro i got a 300w (nominal wattage, real is really much less) and it costs on the bill about 7 euro/month at 18/6, thats nothing. I must say that i have solar cells on the roof but i run light almost always on night time so i use them from dawn to 12 am, when light turns off to turn on at midnight. I was very surprised with this lamp, internodal distance is very (sometime too) short, fast grow and big and heavy colas. Obviously the final weight is not so much (expecially 12/12 will give no more than 10/30 grams for plant) but in a small space, 80x80 cm can put 12 plants to have 120/300 grams with that small light. I used to let veg for 1,5 months then turn 12/12 but i needed to go faster, i got nothing to smoke and i cant spend money on shitty and expensive hash on the "market". And having my plants alwsys under my eyes is beautiful . Growing outside is much better for the yeld, but here is not legal , guerrilla is too risky and my wife doesnt want in our garden. I know in Spain if you join a club can grow some plants legally, you're advanced italy is a fucking nation trust me... with a single plant you can have more than 500g.. even if you have to wait late sept/november to harvest and rain or cold, expecially for sativa doms, can be nasty. Maybe a led lamp could help you to grow a few plant at home added to the ones under the sky..


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## Lizard62 (Jun 11, 2020)

Update.. week 7 from seed, week 2 flowering (except blue dream) 

Put some pictures.
I believed to have single colas... that's not. 
Most plants got well developed branches, i'm not sure to crop. I think cropping them won't increase total yeld, better, would decrease it. Maybe potency of lowers will be less... but i cant crop them 
The advanced one already shows resin. At second week flowering. I love it! 
Last pic is blue dream it seems to have a very tiny preflower... but VERY


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## kmog33 (Jun 11, 2020)

You never increase potential yield taking plant matter off....you can increase/improve bag appeal, density, structure, airflow....but you’re never going to get more out of a plant chopping pieces of it off.


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## Lizard62 (Jun 11, 2020)

Ty. This worths for the power of the plant too?


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## kmog33 (Jun 12, 2020)

Lizard62 said:


> Ty. This worths for the power of the plant too?


Depends on if you have adequate light intensity to get all the way through the plants to the bottom/of youre happy with some larfy shit when you’re trimming. I tend to take off the entire bottoms of plants first 3-4 nodes from the cotyledon as they grow, then strip The inside when i flip and then once or twice a week through most of flower. But I’m not into larf so I end up throwing away a bunch of fluffy buds I don’t want to trim if I don’t defoliate.

defoliation isnt better or worse than all natural plants, but you should always have a reason you’re removing anything that generates or stored energy for your plants.


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## Lizard62 (Jun 12, 2020)

Thank you kmog
Very clear. Light is quite intense but cant reach the low properly. Upper leaves of taller plants cover some light to shorter planrs tops too.
I think im going to crop less developed lower branches up to the third nod, and defoliate those big leaves that shade too much under them. I've already cropped some of them during the growth and pants did not suffer ar all.. are just exploding .


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## Lizard62 (Jun 12, 2020)

Are you on 12/12 fs too?


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## Lizard62 (Jun 13, 2020)

Day 18 from first preflowers. Everything seems to be ok, blue dream is still very late, but all plants are healthy.
Weather here is quite crazy to be almost in summer. Daytime max 22 celsius, so my settings (lights on on nightime), make temperature is almost the same during the 24 hours. In fact, night temperatures are about 15 celsius and led light increase it to 20/21, no more. I'm just wondering if this situation is anyway acceptable. In july day temperatures should be 28/30 , an same into the growroom, and night 20/21 , 25 into the g.r. I say should, but summer must come... 
So i will have temps lower with lights on than with light off. A strange situation....


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## Lizard62 (Jun 13, 2020)

What if i give 24 h darkness and starts light when now it turns off?


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## Lizard62 (Jun 14, 2020)

What does it means? Leaves curlying on the leght...


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## Mohican (Jun 14, 2020)

Unhappy roots.


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## Lizard62 (Jun 14, 2020)

Mohican said:


> Unhappy roots.


Why just one plant? All 9 are in the same conditions of soil, nutes and water. This is on the first pot, the one closest to vent air flow.


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## Mohican (Jun 15, 2020)

Sometimes the drain holes get clogged. The plant could be more sensitive than the others.


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## Lizard62 (Jun 15, 2020)

Mohican said:


> Sometimes the drain holes get clogged. The plant could be more sensitive than the others.


It is flowering fine btw. Hope it will go over this crisis. What can i do? Cant transplant.. just wait and see


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## Lizard62 (Jun 15, 2020)

It is one of the two green cracks. The other is some days late with flowers (it just germinate 3 days latet) and in perfect conditions...


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## Mohican (Jun 15, 2020)

You can carefully lift up the plant with the root ball and inspect the roots.


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## Lizard62 (Jun 15, 2020)

Mohican said:


> You can carefully lift up the plant with the root ball and inspect the roots.


I got three plants each pot... im afraid i could damage the closest one. Next time single pots.. i believed they'd grown much less, just a single cola so i tried with 3 wach 10.5 liters pot.


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## Lizard62 (Jun 15, 2020)

Three Each*


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## Mohican (Jun 15, 2020)

OK - then we will pray for success!


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## Lizard62 (Jun 16, 2020)

Mohican said:


> OK - then we will pray for success!


Im not a believer, but in this case... better to pray.. 
Must add another thing. Leaves colour is really a very dark green, no burnt leaves but so dark it could be an excess of nitrogen? Would u try to wash her roots?


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## Lizard62 (Jun 16, 2020)

Pots were very light this morning given 1.5 liters water each pot, little more on the suffering one. I changed day/night periods, light from 5'30 am to.5.30 pm. Temps are 23 daytime and 19 nightime. Blue Dream started flowering . I love my plants, hope they feel it.. sm pics


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## Mohican (Jun 16, 2020)

They know you love them! 
New growers usually use too much water and too much food.
It is a weed. It will grow with very little water or food!
At least once during a grow I will let the soil dry until the plant droops.
Food is tricky. The best is worm compost. Perfect every time.

Cheers,
Mo


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## Lizard62 (Jun 16, 2020)

Mohican said:


> They know you love them!
> New growers usually use too much water and too much food.
> It is a weed. It will grow with very little water or food!
> At least once during a grow I will let the soil dry until the plant droops.
> ...


Well, I'm not exactly a new grower. It's my first 12/12 fs but i've been growing for about 30 years, i'm 58.. guerrilla farming for years, in 1991 i bought an hps 400w and grew indoor for the first time. I had never the right place or enaugh money to spend on it so i used that lamp until few years ago when it dead. Too much heat, too much for electricity bills, btw, i continued to grow a few plants in my garden, autos or std fem, then i bought a cheap led lamp fs 300w. I'd bought weed or hash a very few times. I know about nutes and water and try to minimize them. My soil is good quality topsoil ph 6,5 for 70% and earthworms compost 30%. Give them less than halfdose of biobloom (NPK 2-6-7 if i well remember) by biobizz, one time every 2 watering. Me too let them drop for dry soil once/two times in last two weeks flowering.
Here is forbidden, can't risk anymore, and im now unenployed so i cant buy a better light, air extractors, dehumidificators or cooler.. try to do my best with the few i have to smoke better i can, and free. 
I like to share and listen suggestions, that's why im here after casually i read this 12/12 journal


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## Mohican (Jun 16, 2020)

I am 58 also. I grew my first plant in 1975! Everything was sativa and it was all outdoors.
Here in California it was illegal but everybody did it.
I hope your part of the world opens up to the freedom of cannabis soon.
What do you do for work?


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## Lizard62 (Jun 16, 2020)

Brother  1962 great year
Actually unemployed. My company went bankrupt 5 years ago so i jump from a summer work to another each summer season, i live on tuscany's west coast.. i found a regular job wirking on the ferryboat from Leghorn to Capraia island but i had to make some tests (swim, raw, medical) to have the "sailor passport" and covid19 lockdown blocked everything so.i have to wait some months more.. luck my wife has a job. Italy is bs...


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## Lizard62 (Jun 16, 2020)

My first grow.. 1981 after my first (of 15) time in Amsterdam  
It was skunk, three plants on the forest 1.70 m tall christmas tree shaped... it was a bomb.


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## Lizard62 (Jun 17, 2020)

Mohican said:


> I am 58 also. I grew my first plant in 1975! Everything was sativa and it was all outdoors.
> Here in California it was illegal but everybody did it.
> I hope your part of the world opens up to the freedom of cannabis soon.
> What do you do for work?


Where in California? I got a very close italian friends married with a cali woman and living in Foster City, SF Bay area, just close the long bridge to Berkley. I was there three weeks in 2010 and must say it's a great place. Place and people.


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## Mohican (Jun 18, 2020)

San Francisco is very much like Italy. I have a close friend that lives in Milano. I loved my visit to Italy.

I live in southern California - Orange County - near Disneyland


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## Lizard62 (Jun 18, 2020)

You meant very much better than italy


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## Mohican (Jun 19, 2020)

No - I think Italy is much better!

Rome's graffiti is much better 



And there are no feces on the marble sidewalk.


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## Lizard62 (Jun 19, 2020)

Neighbor's grass is always more green 
For sure italy is plenty of arts, museums, ancient ruins, middleage villages, nice seas... but... it is plenty of italians.


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## Lizard62 (Jun 19, 2020)

I forgot the pope and priests...


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## Mohican (Jun 19, 2020)

Good happy healthy people!


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## Lizard62 (Jun 22, 2020)

Hey ho let's go!! Week 4 flowering update
Everything is going nice. 
Advanced one, blueberry headband crops are icy and sticky. Great smell of pinetree.. my fingers are glueing just having smoothly touched it. even if main cola is not going very big, it it has well formed lower branches. My lights are not so powerful, but it's amazing btw. The two bh sisters are much smaller, but looking the same. The second more advanced in flowering is the curly leaves green crack, icy and sticky too. Other plants are a week late but flowers are growing day by day. Blue Dream, the 70% sativa one, is 2 weeks late but flowering really good, it has 10/11 weeks flowering and i'm sure it will give me the bigger yeld, at the end. 
This morning i cropped some lower branches, they dont have enaugh light so.i prefer to give more strength to the uppers and main cola.
Temperatures are now optimal, 25/27 celsius 55/60% rh in daytime, and 20/22 celsius 70/75% rh in nightime. Outside temp is getting higher day by day, summer is coming, but it seems ventilation can manage it for the moment. I'm looking forward to be middle july when the first blueberry headband will be ready to harvest.
I'm watering every two days, 2 liters for the three pots, first tasting the soil. Very few nutes, biobloom obnltynly, just one third of the suggested dose, just to help a little the flowers. The curly leaves green crack is not getting worse, curled keaves are only on one side of the plant, btw.
At the end, i think i won't have more than 150 gram, but last weeks increase weight a lot.. btw quality is better than quantity.
I'm thinking about a big defoliation, to let light going deeper, but i'm not sure it is a good idea.. help me


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## Mohican (Jun 22, 2020)

Don't defoliate! I did a side-by-side experiment and the cola I didn't defoliate got much bigger than the cola that was defoliated.


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## Lizard62 (Jun 22, 2020)

Mohican said:


> Don't defoliate! I did a side-by-side experiment and the cola I didn't defoliate got much bigger than the cola that was defoliated.


Thank you. So i let lower branches get less light. Trust you.


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## Mohican (Jun 22, 2020)

You can remove lower branches with small flowers when they are not getting sufficient light.


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## Lizard62 (Jun 23, 2020)

Mohican said:


> You can remove lower branches with small flowers when they are not getting sufficient light.


Yeah this is what i'm doing. I smoke them too... not really bad


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## Lizard62 (Jun 26, 2020)

Blueberry Hedband tested at middle week 5 (three weeks more to harvest)
I could not waith. WOW. smoked 30 min ago.
WOW


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## Lizard62 (Jun 26, 2020)

Wait*


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## Lizard62 (Jun 26, 2020)

Fuck i'stoned
Wanted put a picture, just forgotten
Its a lower branch one.


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## Lizard62 (Aug 14, 2020)

Hola .... 6 plants already smoked/in smoking. Ridicoulous yeld of 5-10 grams each. High quality btw... today i have harvested the 7th, sour gorilla kush. Biggest crops I ever grown indoor.. it's quite big, sticky, i'll get 20/25 grams from her. One green crack and the blue diamond left, gonna cur the first in a few day, the second, sativa 70%, in a couple of weeks. Both are fat and shining. 
Soon i'll get more seeds, 12/12 for me has not shortered time so much and yeld was not sufficient. Gonna look for critical 2.0 auto or jack herer auto


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## Lizard62 (Aug 14, 2020)

Pic of sour gorilla kush


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## Naija (Oct 12, 2020)

Amazing journal, read it all very informative


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 12, 2020)

Naija said:


> Amazing journal, read it all very informative


Thank you! I no longer post in this thread but it's cool to see that people still stumble onto it from time to time.


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## Naija (Oct 12, 2020)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Thank you! I no longer post in this thread but it's cool to see that people still stumble onto it from time to time.


i noticed it turned to be a general thread lol, my problem now is you got me hooked to del666666 thread, that’s 600+ pages lol


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## Naija (Oct 12, 2020)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Thank you! I no longer post in this thread but it's cool to see that people still stumble onto it from time to time.


i am preparing for a new grow now, I ordered over 200 seeds with 15+ strains, you really got me thinking about the 12-12 from seed method....


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## Naija (Oct 12, 2020)

I have 30 6” diameter x 8” height airpots and an 8’x8’x6’ tent and over stocked with lights. Thinking of using good quality of garden soil mixed with zeolite and volcanic tuff, with treated cow manure. Would you advice if I went with 12-12 from seed?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 12, 2020)

Naija said:


> I have 30 6” diameter x 8” height airpots and an 8’x8’x6’ tent and over stocked with lights. Thinking of using good quality of garden soil mixed with zeolite and volcanic tuff, with treated cow manure. Would you advice if I went with 12-12 from seed?


Certainly! That sounds awesome...I hope you make a journal and I'll follow along. Otherwise feel free to ask me anything you want. Here to learn and share what I know!


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## Naija (Oct 13, 2020)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Certainly! That sounds awesome...I hope you make a journal and I'll follow along. Otherwise feel free to ask me anything you want. Here to learn and share what I know!


If I eventually go with the 12-12 from seed, I am rethinking my entire "Soil" options, I am thinking the soil mixture I mentioned might be a huge risk for 12-12, since I don't have a veg stage, using the 18-6 will give me time to fix any issues and expand my veg period till I get it all right, but with the 12-12 I think I don't have that flexibility and I should have everything right from the get go.

On the other hand if I want to go with a grow medium other than the soil I mentioned I am limited with one option only and that is basic coco coir with a PH range from 6.5-7.5 and perlite. Fertilisers won't be an issue as I have a wide range of fertilisers available; they are definitely not specialised for cannabis; but I can adjust concentrates and PH easily, I am not worried much about that.

advice needed:
1) 12-12 with soil mixture and see how it goes
2) 12-12 with basic plain coco and perlite
3) Normal veg them flowering with soil mixture


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## Naija (Oct 13, 2020)

The data of soil mixture I am planning is as follows:

The manure data is:
PH 8.0
Organic matter 51.8 wt/wt%
N 2.2 wt/wt%
P 1.1 wt/wt%
K 2.1 wt/wt%
Na 2.1 wt/wt%
Cl 1.7 wt/wt%
Fe 0.6 wt/wt%
Ca 5.2 wt/wt%

Zeolite is basically rich in Fe, Ca, Si, Al, and traces of P and K; PH is also on the edges of 8

Volcanic tuff and zeolite have great water capture capabilities.

Garden soil I have no idea of what it contains but its rich with no doubts.

my planned ratio is 3 Garden soil : 1 manure : 1 zeolite :1 tuff


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 13, 2020)

I don't have much to offer on your soil - I have very little experience with anything other than hydro. Starting your plants on 18/6 is perfectly fine and if you want to simulate 12/12 from seed, just flip them to 12/12 when they are 6 inches tall or so. If you really want big thick colas, try chopping all of your side branches off. See here for examples:





Hot Diggity's Lab


Chapter 8: Day 68 of 12/12 The garden is already starting to look a little smaller. I won't be turning any of the lights off as I need the heat. I misspoke yesterday when I said the 1st Super Silver Hashplant x Cobra Lips would be coming down this morning. It was actually a Forest Queen x...



www.rollitup.org


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