# 180w jumbo ufo grow(in progress)



## beeker74 (Aug 9, 2009)

Whats up yal.What this crazy looking thing is a 180w jumbo ufo.The larger more mature plants are 1-blueberry, 1-blue hash, 1 Cali Hash, 2 Nightshades.Just going into flower are 17 6" tall blueberry, and nightshade clones.And 7 big bangs just completed 10 days 12/12.The name of the company is Prosource, and they gave this thing to me for 300US-cost, as long as I present this grow to you.Now the 5 maturing plants were under 2-90w tri-band ufo's for 28 days, so they didnt get the full effect of the added spectrum of the 180.2 bands of blue, 2 bands of red and a band of infrared.The unit is held 18" above the canopy(more on this later)but love it or hate it-here she is...


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## tea tree (Aug 9, 2009)

that is awseome! how the hell did you wrangle that deal. I liek the thought of being green. I tried a ufo but I was too desperate a grower to trust it at the time.


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## beeker74 (Aug 10, 2009)

tea tree said:


> that is awseome! how the hell did you wrangle that deal. I liek the thought of being green. I tried a ufo but I was too desperate a grower to trust it at the time.


I did a few grow journals with their old 90w tri-band model ufo's, I guess they liked what they saw-then out of the blue, I get the offer.They really want to show this thing in a 4x4 packed tent.I guess having a 4x4 tent helped too.


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## AquafinaOrbit (Aug 10, 2009)

LEDs 18" above the plant. Seems a tad far to me based on heat they should be putting off but then I've never used them.


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## beeker74 (Aug 10, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> I did a few grow journals with their old 90w tri-band model ufo's, I guess they liked what they saw-then out of the blue, I get the offer.They really want to show this thing in a 4x4 packed tent.I guess having a 4x4 tent helped too.


 all but 6 plants(blueberries) are in ffof with extra perlite, and dolomite lime.I've been underferting, so now every other watering, to one gal of H20-30 mils of Pura Vida Bloom, 2 1/2 tspns of Liquid Karma-3/4 tspn of Atami-B-Cuzz bloom, 1 tspn epsom.The 6 that arent in ffof are in a perlite vermiculite mix-still watered with Pura Vida+additives.You can see the nute defs on the blueberries-gave em a feed today


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## beeker74 (Aug 10, 2009)

AquafinaOrbit said:


> LEDs 18" above the plant. Seems a tad far to me based on heat they should be putting off but then I've never used them.


Thats the new school of thought.The newer units put out some photons-too close(oversaturation)-weird twisted growth.Part of the deal was that I follow their instructions- so 18" it is.After this grow, I plan on doing some messin around of my own.


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## beeker74 (Aug 10, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> Thats the new school of thought.The newer units put out some photons-too close(oversaturation)-weird twisted growth.Part of the deal was that I follow their instructions- so 18" it is.After this grow, I plan on doing some messin around of my own.


Something of note-this unit def runs warmer than 2-90w tri-bands.I think that the band of infrared is the culprit.Temps stay below 80, 77-79


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## beeker74 (Aug 10, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> Something of note-this unit def runs warmer than 2-90w tri-bands.I think that the band of infrared is the culprit.Temps stay below 80, 77-79


Heres my last hps grow-just to show yal I've grown with HID too.I get asked that alot.


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## beeker74 (Aug 10, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> Heres my last hps grow-just to show yal I've grown with HID too.I get asked that alot.


more pics, day 45, and 35


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## beeker74 (Aug 10, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> more pics, day 45, and 35


pretty pics


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## violator kush (Aug 10, 2009)

damn looks great for l.e.d's i'm still waiting for them to be better, they will become the golden standard


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## beeker74 (Aug 10, 2009)

violator kush said:


> damn looks great for l.e.d's i'm still waiting for them to be better, they will become the golden standard


I'd wait for prices to drop, the tek is performing well, on a homegrow scale-and I believe many will benefit from it.But until the cost comes down to an acceptable level,it's just simply inaccessable to many.And I really dont think thats fair.But thats the way the world works-I sure as shit know I wouldnt have paid full freight.And thanks man-the next couple weeks should be interesting.


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## beeker74 (Aug 11, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> I'd wait for prices to drop, the tek is performing well, on a homegrow scale-and I believe many will benefit from it.But until the cost comes down to an acceptable level,it's just simply inaccessable to many.And I really dont think thats fair.But thats the way the world works-I sure as shit know I wouldnt have paid full freight.And thanks man-the next couple weeks should be interesting.


 These 5 will be the upcoming harvest- I'm sure it'll be one plant at a time, It'll def be Nightshade first-blueberry second, followed by the blue hash-wrapping it up with the Nightshade, and Cali-Hash.Tentatively


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## beeker74 (Aug 11, 2009)

Quality control


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## beeker74 (Aug 12, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> Quality control


 Enough of the seed plants for now( the flowering plants) week 1-21 blueberry and nightshade clones, 7-2 week old Big Bangs, and a squatty 5 week old big bang that I just tied down and put into 12/12-I havent done lst with led yet, so we'll see how she turns out


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## beeker74 (Aug 13, 2009)

I know the daily pics may seem excessive, but prosource wanted me to post daily pics.So here ya go


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## beeker74 (Aug 17, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> I know the daily pics may seem excessive, but prosource wanted me to post daily pics.So here ya go


Heres my hps-fluoro grow-for comparison bud shots at end of the grow.2x2 homebox xs, 1 1/2 gallon buckets of ffof-the strain is Big Bang- I also have some of those in the led tent.People always ask about the comparisons between hps and led, I'm going to give you an unbiased comparitive grow.If this led unit is really more than just hype-she should have no problem moppin the floor with the 150w hps- 100w fluoro combo.I highly doubt it, but we'll see. I raised the hps for the photos-usually she's 3" from the canopy. The hood has 400cfm pullin out the heat


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## beeker74 (Aug 18, 2009)

led clones 2 weeks, last 2 pics are hps clones-2 weeks


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## seasmoke (Aug 19, 2009)

beeker, what do these lights look like? Got a pic?( I'm not buying LEDs untill they are surefire....and cheaper.


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## beeker74 (Aug 19, 2009)

seasmoke said:


> beeker, what do these lights look like? Got a pic?( I'm not buying LEDs untill they are surefire....and cheaper.


Good idea-my general assertion is that these lights are no where near as efficient as they claim.Right now we're seeing alot of new colors creeping into these units-I guess red and blue really isnt all that.My personal belief is that plants photosynthesize optimally under the full spectrum provided by the sun-or an hps/mh combo for that matter.But these units are progressing-I dont buy the whole selective spectrum thing, so I believe this unit at 180 watts is simply using better diodes-the old ufo's had 14 lm/watt- this ufo is using 100 lm/w diode, has to be.The other led ufo's I tested didnt do dick-dandelion weed.This unit-the nugs are growing tighter-hmmm-gotta be mo lumens in there-the company refuses to state the lumen output.And we all know it's lumens that brings the fat dank.That'll be the future of this tek-diodes that produce an unbelievably high lumen count.They have one in China now that puts out(1 watt diode) 50,000 lm...but it only lasts 2-3 seconds.BTW-somebody correct me if I'm wrong-but hps puts out 140lm/watt correct?And the most "efficient" diodes, that can be used-put out 100lm/watt-and man are they expensive.Right now If I only had one grow it would be an HID grow.Heres the 180 unit I'm using-the quadrants can be turned on and off independantly-I guess this is to gradually introduce tender young seedlings and clones to the full 180.


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## beeker74 (Aug 19, 2009)

http://www.ledgrow.eu/ this guy, ole Hans is doing some interesting work with leds-pulls a g/watt and proves it.But even he very freely states that hps is far more efficient.Interesting read


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## beeker74 (Aug 19, 2009)

what we need to make these work is more lm/watt, and a sharp drop in price


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## genfranco (Aug 19, 2009)

that is some airy buds on those... Ill keep my 600 hps anyday...


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## beeker74 (Aug 19, 2009)

genfranco said:


> that is some airy buds on those... Ill keep my 600 hps anyday...


 they're like dandelions- and I think it's partially the narrow beam emission-alot of light just isnt getting to the plants.Thats why I'm here-shit, I'd love these things to work as promised- they just dont.


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## beeker74 (Aug 19, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> they're like dandelions- and I think it's partially the narrow beam emission-alot of light just isnt getting to the plants.Thats why I'm here-shit, I'd love these things to work as promised- they just dont.


 150w hps-2 weeks 12/12


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## beeker74 (Aug 19, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> 150w hps-2 weeks 12/12


 180w led-2 weeks 12/12, can we see where this is going?


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## beeker74 (Aug 19, 2009)

the first pic is my hps/fluoro blueberry, the second is led blueberry.Still thinkin about converting, I tried to talk a young dude out of buying 1000US worth of led bulbs, he didnt listen-dont be like that kid.The first blueberry was grown with a 150 hps and some fluoro(52w)-total cost was 65US, the unit that grew the second plant is 700, to reiterate-I just traded a 300US beat up ufo(they wanted to make sure I had one of their models) for the 180-on the condition that I post all this-I dont think they'll ask me again


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## J R (Aug 19, 2009)

When are you going to terminate the grow and compare yield and quality ?


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## beeker74 (Aug 19, 2009)

J R said:


> When are you going to terminate the grow and compare yield and quality ?


 I figure theres 6 weeks left on the led grow- and as much on the hps grow.I'll be posting every spec-weight especially-you wont believe how light the led buds are until you see a big pile of it on the scale, and read the paltry number beneath.Fuckin sad really.Thats why I'm here tho- to put a fuckin end to this hps/led debate-cause the #'s dont lie.6 weeks and we'll all see the truth.


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## beeker74 (Aug 19, 2009)

genfranco said:


> that is some airy buds on those... Ill keep my 600 hps anyday...


and like my man here said, I'll be putting back my 600 in that nice mylar tent, thats currently being occupied by the led plants- ahhhhh, 600w hortilux- happy days big nugs again.


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## The Kush Guy (Aug 19, 2009)

Awesome post man, I was just chatting with a guy on another thread asking about LEDs. I sent him over here too.

+rep
TKG


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## beeker74 (Aug 19, 2009)

The Kush Guy said:


> Awesome post man, I was just chatting with a guy on another thread asking about LEDs. I sent him over here too.
> 
> +rep
> TKG


thank you very much-I just cant let another one of these fuckin things be bought under false, and hopefully any pretense.For the price of a decent unit that will deliver mediocre results-decent being maybe 1/3 g/watt-if your'e lucky, you could set up a kick ass 2 stage set-up-mh,hps-or just hps if you prefer- and still have enough cash left for 2 years supply of nutes.And hey, you'll actually have a set-up you can get something out of.I was fooled by the pretty looking, fuckin dandelionish-air weed my buddy calls it-excuse for bud I got-and thats the thing-under those pretty colors a pile of dogshit in the rain would look appetizing, lol-I got alot of good laughs out of this-particularily at myself for being so obsessed with the pretty colors- and thats all it is-pretty aesthetics pretending to be legit product.My past led grows have always included cfl supplementation, or a small-70w hps- I never felt confident enough to go "pure" well this time I did and are you ready-of the last 3 nice looking plants I harvested-12 fuckin grams was my BIG hauler-a 3 ft blue hash that I was pumped about- I gave the weed to a friend that said "What the fuck is this?"-to which I replied- "Free", need I say more?


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## beeker74 (Aug 19, 2009)

heres my big hauler-dont get jealous now, 12 fuckin grams, lol-I just think thats hilarious.My boys are still mercilessly breakin my balls


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## Syr (Aug 19, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> .My past led grows have always included cfl supplementation, or a small-70w hps- I never felt confident enough to go "pure"


How much more would you say the additional white light helped compared to what you saw from "pure" led?


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## beeker74 (Aug 19, 2009)

Syr said:


> How much more would you say the additional white light helped compared to what you saw from "pure" led?


 I'll put it this way- from what I weighed from this grow, I'd say the cfls we're doing 80% of the work.I guess I was too busy bein proud of my little led/cfl harvests, that I forgot that I had to add 150 watts of cfl to a 90w ufo- hmmm, maybe it should have hit my stoner ass then that the cfl's were doing all the flowering- but oh those pretty lights.


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## beeker74 (Aug 19, 2009)

It just hit me-whats the fuckin point of continuing the pure led grow-6 grams is all anybody reading this needs to hear, on a 3' plant.Never in my life, fuck it- I'll be harvesting a blueberry, Nightshade, and Cali Hash plant tomorrow-I'll post the weights of these 3 plants, after that- a fucking hps is goin in there to finish the job on the clones properly- when someone shows you their killer led grow, ask for some shots on the scale, can you tell I'm pissed-I wont even sell the thing-wouldnt do it to a fellow grower.My prediction on each plants weight-5 grams a piece-FUCK THAT


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## irishboy (Aug 20, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> It just hit me-whats the fuckin point of continuing the pure led grow-6 grams is all anybody reading this needs to hear, on a 3' plant.Never in my life, fuck it- I'll be harvesting a blueberry, Nightshade, and Cali Hash plant tomorrow-I'll post the weights of these 3 plants, after that- a fucking hps is goin in there to finish the job on the clones properly- when someone shows you their killer led grow, ask for some shots on the scale, can you tell I'm pissed-I wont even sell the thing-wouldnt do it to a fellow grower.My prediction on each plants weight-5 grams a piece-FUCK THAT


take it back you still have 90days. i hope this isnt going to hapen to me? when i did the total led grow with my 90w tri-ban i got a oz per plant and they were desnse to. i am going to squeze my buds tomarrow and see. now i am triping. fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i let u know how mine is doing. i just dont get it why did my 90w do so good?? they were solid nugd and a oz per plant is good for 90w's. i would have never guessed that would be the total of ur plant.


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

irishboy said:


> take it back you still have 90days. i hope this isnt going to hapen to me? when i did the total led grow with my 90w tri-ban i got a oz per plant and they were desnse to. i am going to squeze my buds tomarrow and see. now i am triping. fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i let u know how mine is doing. i just dont get it why did my 90w do so good?? they were solid nugd and a oz per plant is good for 90w's. i would have never guessed that would be the total of ur plant.


I hope it dosent happen to you-I just had to make a call-keep going with led and eventually run out of my hps stash, or pulling the led project and switchin out the leds for my tried and true hps- I dont know what the deal is, I've never had such a lousy pull Irish, it was so bad that I hooked up the 600w hps and the ac unit this morning- the leaves we're all hanging low this morning with the leds hovering over them- 10 min after the 600 went in, the leaves all picked up, and the plants looked much happier.Thinking on it, I now believe leds only work optrimally with certain strains-i.e. low light requirement plants, it's just too much fartin around when it's just much simpler, and guaranteed with hps.Just look at your hps grow brother-amazing, you're pulling POUNDS per plant my man-I dont think you could ever get those results with led.That one pic literally looks like a mountain of bud-do me a favor man, would you post some pics of your hps grow on here?


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## The Kush Guy (Aug 20, 2009)

I am by no means an LED hater, I did a couple week test with a couple clones and couldnt get a satisfactory Veg state under LEDs. I saw the same droppy leaves and unhappy plants.

This is a great thread brother, someone should really sticky this as I think you have the proof in the posts, LEDs VS HPS dont compare at all. Everyone talking about spending money on LEDs should have a read on what you have experienced so at least they go in eyes wide open.

TKG




beeker74 said:


> It just hit me-whats the fuckin point of continuing the pure led grow-6 grams is all anybody reading this needs to hear, on a 3' plant.Never in my life, fuck it- I'll be harvesting a blueberry, Nightshade, and Cali Hash plant tomorrow-I'll post the weights of these 3 plants, after that- a fucking hps is goin in there to finish the job on the clones properly- when someone shows you their killer led grow, ask for some shots on the scale, can you tell I'm pissed-I wont even sell the thing-wouldnt do it to a fellow grower.My prediction on each plants weight-5 grams a piece-FUCK THAT


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## rubberguard (Aug 20, 2009)

Fuck man im happy i didnt drop the cash on the similar LED unit. I didnt even read this thread at the time but i made the decision to not fall into the led hype yet but i was very very tempted. I end up going with Nextgen Digital ballasts, so so small and they run real nice.

Your thread is informative for many of the people thinking of droping the bucks on the leds

Thank you muchly and i hope your girls beef up with the 600 watter in there now.


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## J R (Aug 20, 2009)

Yep...We burn 2ea- 600W HPS with 400W of quad band LED's and produce very good meds. It has not been proven that you could produce good quality meds with LED's alone. There is another thread here on a 780W led grow that is very interesting to follow.

Thanks for relating your results.


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

rubberguard said:


> Fuck man im happy i didnt drop the cash on the similar LED unit. I didnt even read this thread at the time but i made the decision to not fall into the led hype yet but i was very very tempted. I end up going with Nextgen Digital ballasts, so so small and they run real nice.
> 
> Your thread is informative for many of the people thinking of droping the bucks on the leds
> 
> Thank you muchly and i hope your girls beef up with the 600 watter in there now.


 thank you, and they look much happier under a real light.I'm glad you didnt make that led purchase- your digital ballasted HIDs will reward you for your hard work-digital is what I use-Lumatek.And I gotta tell ya- the heat is totally manageable with 600w of air cooled, digital ballasted HID.I'm tellin ya, it's the pretty colors that draws ya in.Hopefully this thread will help many others make their decision.Wisely.


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

The Kush Guy said:


> I am by no means an LED hater, I did a couple week test with a couple clones and couldnt get a satisfactory Veg state under LEDs. I saw the same droppy leaves and unhappy plants.
> 
> This is a great thread brother, someone should really sticky this as I think you have the proof in the posts, LEDs VS HPS dont compare at all. Everyone talking about spending money on LEDs should have a read on what you have experienced so at least they go in eyes wide open.
> 
> TKG


 thanks man, I just sincerely hope this helps someone ready to drop some serious grippage on these sham-wows of the growlight industry.Today I harvested the rest of the failures-stripped all leaves(mostly leaves) and dandelion buds and unceremoniously tossed them is the trimmings box, I dont even care how much they weigh, they'll be in a bubble bag soon enough.Huh, a crop consisting entirely of trimmings...


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

J R said:


> Yep...We burn 2ea- 600W HPS with 400W of quad band LED's and produce very good meds. It has not been proven that you could produce good quality meds with LED's alone. There is another thread here on a 780W led grow that is very interesting to follow.
> 
> Thanks for relating your results.


 No problem, just tryin to do my part for the community.peace


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

I shall hereforth officialy retitle this thread-"Air Bud, an LED Rectal ASSault".Got a nice ring to it


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## irishboy (Aug 20, 2009)

so after tripng all night while my girls were sleeping this moring i went in their and squezd the shit out of them (i hate doing that!) and they were dense? i couldnt squez them flat without realy pressing hard. i dont get it? i dont think its less light strains because i have sativas and they need more light then indicas. my temps are 95-100F all the time, if anything that should give me airy buds.. so i dont know what the fuck is going on. ill have to post pics of my buds on a scale when i harvest, witch will be another 3weeks to 4weeks. i dont know what could have made urs like that? maybe it is a strain thing? and ive just gotton lucky the last two times? all i know is i want it to be consistint all the time not some airy and some dense. are u going to take the light back since u have 90 days?


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## seasmoke (Aug 20, 2009)

Well i'm some glad i went MH+HPS....been using floros +hps but upgraded with 2 mhs...1 1000wt, 1 400wt(to sit beside my 1000wthps.

I'm glad you did this study. was very informitive. LEDs might be the thing of the future, but it looks like the distant future. Why the hell do they build them round? i'd rather have square ones that I can place together neatly if they ever do get them right.


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

irishboy said:


> so after tripng all night while my girls were sleeping this moring i went in their and squezd the shit out of them (i hate doing that!) and they were dense? i couldnt squez them flat without realy pressing hard. i dont get it? i dont think its less light strains because i have sativas and they need more light then indicas. my temps are 95-100F all the time, if anything that should give me airy buds.. so i dont know what the fuck is going on. ill have to post pics of my buds on a scale when i harvest, witch will be another 3weeks to 4weeks. i dont know what could have made urs like that? maybe it is a strain thing? and ive just gotton lucky the last two times? all i know is i want it to be consistint all the time not some airy and some dense. are u going to take the light back since u have 90 days?


 Amen to that brother-consistency is key, it's just crazy that strains that we're putting out 2-3 oz a plant under hps, with the same conditions are now putting out, at best, less than a half ounce.Fuck this led thing man, I gotta play catch-up with my HID's.


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

seasmoke said:


> Well i'm some glad i went MH+HPS....been using floros +hps but upgraded with 2 mhs...1 1000wt, 1 400wt(to sit beside my 1000wthps.
> 
> I'm glad you did this study. was very informitive. LEDs might be the thing of the future, but it looks like the distant future. Why the hell do they build them round? i'd rather have square ones that I can place together neatly if they ever do get them right.


 the round thing is a marketing ploy, they put out different models, same leds, and I think they found the "cool" ufo shape to be most pleasing to the eye. But yeah man, it is totally impractical.


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## irishboy (Aug 20, 2009)

have u tried to take it back?? since you have 90 days?


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

irishboy said:


> have u tried to take it back?? since you have 90 days?


 My buddy wants one to veg clones-he likes the indi quadrants. I got the big discount, so I gave him the same.Pickin it up tonite.I busted out the ole 250 mh for veg.


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## irishboy (Aug 20, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> My buddy wants one to veg clones-he likes the indi quadrants. I got the big discount, so I gave him the same.Pickin it up tonite.I busted out the ole 250 mh for veg.


i think i am going to ride out this grow untill harvest and see what happens? do u think it was becasue you hade the light 2' away? its just driving me crazy! why ur are fluff shit and mine are dense. i mean they arnt like a rock but for 6 weeks they are where they sould be since i have a 9week plant.


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

irishboy said:


> i think i am going to ride out this grow untill harvest and see what happens? do u think it was becasue you hade the light 2' away? its just driving me crazy! why ur are fluff shit and mine are dense. i mean they arnt like a rock but for 6 weeks they are where they sould be since i have a 9week plant.


 I dont know brother, at this point these lights are a mystery to me.I got my fingers and toes crossed for ya man.I think a combo of the tent being too big, a prosource recommendation, and the lamp being too high, another prosource recommendation, more than likely contributed.But this light is supposed to be 600w hps equivalent, and according to Michael has greater penetrating power in the lower canopy than HPS.If all that was true, 2 ft from the canopy should have been no problem.I think this thing would work better in a little 2x2 homebox packed with rooted clones, maybe the narrow beams in the unit require a "cramming" of the light in a small space.It's just in five years of growing I've never seen buds that looked so plump wither to tiny tumbleweeds, never...til now.But who knows?All I know is that I've got a heavy habit, and there is no-way leds- in my experience - can tackle it.Who really has hard data published on the reasons for success or failure in this tek, with mj?Notice the lettuce tests?How many mj tests?None.It's all speculation, and someone out there is getting stinkin rich with this shit.Just look at the # of bids for these things on e-bay auction.And why are these companies selling their ufo's for half what they we're charging 6 months ago?And why the fuck is prosource still selling their supposedly out dated and according to them, inferior ufo's on e-bay for the same price as their "latest" miracle.Too many things arent adding up.The HID industry dosent resort to bullshit sales tactics because they have a product that consistently produces results.Just too many things arent adding up.In my case, it was the weight of my so called buds.Whew...rant over, sorry guys


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

http://www.ledgrow.eu/ I know I've already posted this, but check out the questions, and the facts section.Hans posts a very interesting article written by a PHD, not a college degree in advertising and marketing.It goes on to say that plants photosynthesize all light, not just their understandably preffered red and blue.And from experience I now believe 180 watts is just 180 watts.It'll grow weed, in a small grow box.I dont think 180 watts of led is any more efficient than 180 watts of HID.Less if you ascribe to the ole doc's article-I mean every 6 months the "ultimate led grow light" comes out-I always thought ultimate tied in with final.Maybe its bi-annually ultimate.And see the different colors and bandwidths creeping in more and more- will we have a deca ufo, probably.No one has proved to me they know the exact wavelengths required to grow cannabis- not in a led sense.Red an blue yes, but I see alot of variation between those little lines on the spectrum charts.And something else occured to me...if this shit really worked the way they say it does then why havent the hidden players in the BIG GAME gotten together, pulled their funds and made this work.If they believed you could grow more with less, wouldnt it encourage them to do it for the sake of VASTLY increasing their profit margin.Why arent the Dutch using LEDS.No-one grows indoors more than those guys, and I hear tell theres a giant pot industry a brewing over thar.All these little facts and #'s are rolling around in my head as we speak.Shit, if I was a heartless greedhead I would have jumped on board with this industry.


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

If we all had a background education in radioactive emissions-i.e. light, we wouldnt, or I wouldnt, be in this mess.Dont worry guys, I've almost completely vented.


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## irishboy (Aug 20, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> If we all had a background education in radioactive emissions-i.e. light, we wouldnt, or I wouldnt, be in this mess.Dont worry guys, I've almost completely vented.


just keep your fingures crossed for me. i just lowerd my light to 12". rember last time i said i tried the 18" with the 90w with my last grow? well i moved my light 12" above the tops and they went crazy. i still have 90 days to fuck around with this shit so i am going to at least finish up this grow. its just too hot over here to run my hps its 102F* out side every day almost.. and i dont have A/C. i will diff post pics of my total weight on a scale so you and every one can see. when your buds were on the plant did they still seem fluffy or only when dried?? i felt mine and their not fluffy at all. i just dont get it your looked so nice. WTF??? i dont blame you for being pissed i wonld be realy pissed. is their any reason you can think of besides the led? i just dont get it, if anything i should have the fluffy bubs because i have a sativa that needs more light, and my temps are always 95-100F* fuck i am triping out!!! did they ever seen fluffy while they were on ur plant? you looked at the trcs and they were ripe?


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

irishboy said:


> just keep your fingures crossed for me. i just lowerd my light to 12". rember last time i said i tried the 18" with the 90w with my last grow? well i moved my light 12" above the tops and they went crazy. i still have 90 days to fuck around with this shit so i am going to at least finish up this grow. its just too hot over here to run my hps its 102F* out side every day almost.. and i dont have A/C. i will diff post pics of my total weight on a scale so you and every one can see. when your buds were on the plant did they still seem fluffy or only when dried?? i felt mine and their not fluffy at all. i just dont get it your looked so nice. WTF??? i dont blame you for being pissed i wonld be realy pissed. is their any reason you can think of besides the led? i just dont get it, if anything i should have the fluffy bubs because i have a sativa that needs more light, and my temps are always 95-100F* fuck i am triping out!!! did they ever seen fluffy while they were on ur plant? you looked at the trcs and they were ripe?


 Yeah man, busted out the led scope-amber- and they looked so firm.The blueberry bud squashed flat, but the blue hash was soild wet-I just cant believe it, you saw that blue hash plant right?WTF!!Not only do I have my fingers crossed, but you get a prayer with that, choose your deity, you're one hell of a good guy Irish-and I'm throwing ya some Irish luck.


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## irishboy (Aug 20, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> Yeah man, busted out the led scope-amber- and they looked so firm.The blueberry bud squashed flat, but the blue hash was soild wet-I just cant believe it, you saw that blue hash plant right?WTF!!Not only do I have my fingers crossed, but you get a prayer with that, choose your deity, you're one hell of a good guy Irish-and I'm throwing ya some Irish luck.


oh shit so it was dense when wet but once dried it was fluffy? fuck!!! dude that would suck. i thought it was fluffy the whole time even when growing and u didnt notice it. i was wondering how u didnt notice that? i am just going to ride it out and give them a chance to grow my buds nice and dense i have about 3 or 4 weeks left. thanks for the prayer bro!


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

irishboy said:


> oh shit so it was dense when wet but once dried it was fluffy? fuck!!! dude that would suck. i thought it was fluffy the whole time even when growing and u didnt notice it. i was wondering how u didnt notice that? i am just going to ride it out and give them a chance to grow my buds nice and dense i have about 3 or 4 weeks left. thanks for the prayer bro!


 No problem brother-and I sincerely hope I'm the one thats fucked up here, just keep your eye on that 90 days-harvest a nug early if you have to-and then perform every test on that fuckin bud you can.Like I said, it would kill me to see you out that cash


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## irishboy (Aug 20, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> No problem brother-and I sincerely hope I'm the one thats fucked up here, just keep your eye on that 90 days-harvest a nug early if you have to-and then perform every test on that fuckin bud you can.Like I said, it would kill me to see you out that cash


 
ill harvest less then 30days so ill be cool. i just dont get why my last grow with the 90w was realy dense??? its bugging me what happen, they looked so good and fat. i thought ud get 1/2oz -1oz at least. so it was dense when growing and trimming then once it dried it was fluffy?????????. bascialy all water?? i fell so bad for you bro!! its just a fucked up deal for you. so ur rocking a 600hps now?


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

irishboy said:


> ill harvest less then 30days so ill be cool. i just dont get why my last grow with the 90w was realy dense??? its bugging me what happen, they looked so good and fat. i thought ud get 1/2oz -1oz at least. so it was dense when growing and trimming then once it dried it was fluffy?????????. bascialy all water?? i fell so bad for you bro!! its just a fucked up deal for you. so ur rocking a 600hps now?


Hell yeah brother-I'll post some pics of the 600 tomorrow.


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> Hell yeah brother-I'll post some pics of the 600 tomorrow.


 I'm so fuckin stoned(off hps bud mind you) that I forgot about these pics.Clones grew 2 inches in one day under HPS.Plants that looked stunted, one looked like a deformed clover plant, have already begun to rise and spread.I was getting 2 inches a week it seemed with the "miracle grow light" + I left one heavily, ha-ha, budding plant that was 2 weeks behind the rest-lets see if the hps will repair the poor thing.You always leave one alive, to let the others know you're not fuckin around


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## irishboy (Aug 20, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> I'm so fuckin stoned(off hps bud mind you) that I forgot about these pics.Clones grew 2 inches in one day under HPS.Plants that looked stunted, one looked like a deformed clover plant, have already begun to rise and spread.I was getting 2 inches a week it seemed with the "miracle grow light" + I left one heavily, ha-ha, budding plant that was 2 weeks behind the rest-lets see if the hps will repair the poor thing.You always leave one alive, to let the others know you're not fuckin around


 
dose ur temps go way up with ur 600w? how much differnts with fans running? they look nice bro. good luck.


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

irishboy said:


> dose ur temps go way up with ur 600w? how much differnts with fans running? they look nice bro. good luck.


 thanks man, I added a little transfer air fan to the tent, and with the fan going full bore-82, fuck it-I added a bunch of fans inside to keep air moving- the leaves look like their shimmering- and happy, like they've been starved, and just stumbled into the Country Buffet.


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## irishboy (Aug 20, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> thanks man, I added a little transfer air fan to the tent, and with the fan going full bore-82, fuck it-I added a bunch of fans inside to keep air moving- the leaves look like their shimmering- and happy, like they've been starved, and just stumbled into the Country Buffet.


what were the temps with the leds? what the diff now?


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

irishboy said:


> what were the temps with the leds? what the diff now?


 Only 6 degrees warmer, I was at 75 before- I have these AC boosters over the central air grates now- they work OK.Thats another thing-the temperature thing-after some serious looking around theres a shit-load of ways to keep a HID space cooler.Have you checked out portable ac units- the standup units?


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## irishboy (Aug 20, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> Only 6 degrees warmer, I was at 75 before- I have these AC boosters over the central air grates now- they work OK.Thats another thing-the temperature thing-after some serious looking around theres a shit-load of ways to keep a HID space cooler.Have you checked out portable ac units- the standup units?


ya i have one but i am a ass hole.. when its 105F* out at night and i am trying to sleep fuck the MJ plants i need that shit more. i used it one time and it coast too much money then it was worth to cool down the room.


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

irishboy said:


> ya i have one but i am a ass hole.. when its 105F* out at night and i am trying to sleep fuck the MJ plants i need that shit more. i used it one time and it coast too much money then it was worth to cool down the room.


 pretty decent size room? I can understand that, eh-summer dont last forever.What size is your tent Irish?


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## irishboy (Aug 20, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> pretty decent size room? I can understand that, eh-summer dont last forever.What size is your tent Irish?


not tent, just mylar on some wood walls i made. my room is 8x10. soon it will be cold as hell. but i rater deal with the cold then the heat. its cheaper to heat my room then cool it.


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## beeker74 (Aug 20, 2009)

just got an e-mail from my friend that I gave the fluffy blue hash to-5 people smoked it up in an hour with no noticeable effects-zero potentcy.I swear, you'll never see the word LED in another thread title of mine, unless it's followed by sucks dog dick.3 months to grow a shitty plant that gets smoked up in an hour.The only effects being a sore throat.ZERO POTENCY- something to consider.Fuck leds.They're absolute bullshit-this is directed at the led salesman...


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## beeker74 (Aug 21, 2009)

can you all believe this led bullshit has been going on for years now-fucking years.And it wont stop- I just tried to convince a kid with a glow panel that he may be able to grow some alfalfa sprouts-not many, maybe enough to garnish a plate.So he says " well how can I grow in an UNVENTILATED closet", I said not at all.This ended with the kid saying "Well I think it will work anyway." So there you have it, people see only what they want.Not me.This kid will fail horribly, and out of embarrasment fade away in cyberspace-his failure never recorded for all to see.Fuckem, I tried.


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## beeker74 (Aug 21, 2009)

3 days under 400w hps(I need a new 600 bulb, coming next week)


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## beeker74 (Aug 21, 2009)

Hps fuckin rules!!!!


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## irishboy (Aug 21, 2009)

hey did you ever get that water farm in bf? just wanted to know what u thought about it, was looking at these for a while now. pics of it would be cool id like to see the grow chamber.


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## beeker74 (Aug 22, 2009)

irishboy said:


> hey did you ever get that water farm in bf? just wanted to know what u thought about it, was looking at these for a while now. pics of it would be cool id like to see the grow chamber.


 I'm settin up the waterfarm today bro, will have tons of pics for ya-promise.


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## beeker74 (Aug 22, 2009)

LEDs are more efficient than HPS. Is not true! 
LEDs are currently less efficient than HPS, especially the blue ones and they are many times more expensive. A typical HPS gives about 140 Lumen/Watt, where the best LEDs still are at 100 Lumen/Watt. The often-heard statement that LEDs produce less heat than normal assimilation lighting is a misconception. Because the energy conversion is worse than in HPS, the heat per watt still higher than that of HPS. It begins to approach each other but just for the red LEDs and white LEDs. The heat is better to handle because it does not come out the front as radiation, but is concentrated on the back of the chip and can be lead to proper heatsinks.


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## beeker74 (Aug 22, 2009)

]


LEDs are more efficient because more light at the most efficient parts of the spectrum is used. Is not true! 
All photons in the visible light are used at almost the same efficiency. There is a slight decrease for the green photons, but it is no way as bad as Led-panel salesmen would like you to believe. (For fun you can compare this official graph with the ones found on Led-panel sites) 







Here is the light-output of a typical HPS bulb:







As you can see it matches the optimal spectrum quite nicely, using LEDs will not improve this very much. HPS's are really very good lights. LEDs are succesfully used in special horticultural applications but not (yet) to replace horticultural lamps, it will probably take 5-10 years until they do.


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## irishboy (Aug 22, 2009)

cant wait to see that WF setup and to watch this grow using it. do u think its worth getting the WF or just making my own? thanks Bro


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## beeker74 (Aug 22, 2009)

heres a sample of my upcoming thread-the power grower test.


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## irishboy (Aug 22, 2009)

ya thats going to be bad ass those stock holes suck, i was planning on drilling more holes with mine when i get it. watch this plant in going to grow very fast with this hydro setup. you should try scrog or lst. get some monster buds. good luck brother.


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## Munkey (Aug 23, 2009)

Great thread mate, very interesting read. I was thinking about trying led's but after all your hard work I dont think I will bother. Im sorry it didnt work out for you mate, thank you for saving me time and money. It's good to see your clones have survived and im sure they will give you lots of happy smoke.


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## beeker74 (Aug 23, 2009)

Munkey said:


> Great thread mate, very interesting read. I was thinking about trying led's but after all your hard work I dont think I will bother. Im sorry it didnt work out for you mate, thank you for saving me time and money. It's good to see your clones have survived and im sure they will give you lots of happy smoke.


 I'm just glad you read this before you talked to an led salesman(they can be quite convincing).That means this thread is working.Yeah man, cfls will clobber the hell out of your typical led system.The leds required to successfully replace hps light are outrageously expensive.Still only 100lm/watt vs hps 140lm/watt.And lumens is what counts-period.UFO's promise magic colors-enhanced spectrums.How can a spectrum be enhanced when it's incomplete?Plants process all light- yes, even green.Theres a ton of real info available about photosynthesis-I learned all this toiling with these leds.Hopefully so everyone else wont have to.Thanks M8- the clones are showing their appreciation for proper grow lighting.peace


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## beeker74 (Aug 23, 2009)

Heres whats goin on now


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