# Brown / Rust spots all over lower fan leaves



## @Charlie (Aug 5, 2009)

Hey all, something is wrong with my plants lower fan leaves. Rust/brown spots are all over the lower fan leaves. Here's my info and pics*

System*: bubble buckets w/ airstone
*Nutrients*: floranova grow @ 1200ppm
*ph*: ~5.75. checked everyday
*Lighting:* 400w mh 16 inches away
*Temp:* ~85F
*Humidity:* ~50%
*Ventilation:* intake connected to a/c vent, passive when not on. 500cfm booster fan exhaust


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## mambokabui (Aug 5, 2009)

Lets see the bottom side of a bad leave.

No misting right?


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## @Charlie (Aug 5, 2009)

mambokabui said:


> Lets see the bottom side of a bad leave.
> 
> No misting right?


Absolutely no misting.

This is the best I can do right now for an underside pic. All you can really see underside is just the circles where the spots are on the top


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## LoPro (Sep 12, 2009)

I would like to know what this is as well. Did you ever figure out what it was?


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## doc111 (Sep 12, 2009)

@Charlie said:


> Hey all, something is wrong with my plants lower fan leaves. Rust/brown spots are all over the lower fan leaves. Here's my info and pics*
> 
> System*: bubble buckets w/ airstone
> *Nutrients*: floranova grow @ 1200ppm
> ...


Could be magnesium deficiency. Are you using r/o water?


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## Genosyde (Sep 14, 2009)

my plant looks just like this but not as severe very few brown spots, but i DO mist my plant often, does that have something to do with it as well? my plant looks like that last pic that @charlie posted in certain areas, should i run a ph test?


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## LUDACRIS (Nov 9, 2009)

thats spider mites.

LUDA.


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## joshkrauss (Nov 9, 2009)

LUDACRIS said:


> thats spider mites.
> 
> LUDA.



pretty sure spider mites leave white spots. ive had mite before and they left white spots and cob webs, i have a similar problem to the pics above now and its not a mite infestation


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## hoots123 (Nov 9, 2009)

i get this in all my grows too i still havent figured out what it is.. but i really think it could be MAG DEF. i even bought mag pills for humans and broke off little bit it seemed to help. mine go from rust to green and sometimes really bad rust if i dont co anything.

right now mine are turning yellow/brown like oily looking. and the really green onse are turning from dark green to a yellow green. any ideas?


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## The Lorax (Nov 9, 2009)

SIPDER MITES. for sure, they eat the leaves and leave brown spots if u dont treat it with floramite or something of the sort, a fogger, or neem oil the browns spots will get worse as they eat and dry and eventually fall off. best to take care of spider mites sooner rather than later. look under the leaves with the brown spots and look for little black dots, mites. if you have one, look thru a 30X magnifying glass


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## hoots123 (Nov 9, 2009)

here is a couple that have rusted bad.. and i really have no nutes in these onse.. some are seedling femenized seeds and the others are clones.. but ya this is when the rusting's gone wild.

wow they look bad haha! damnit.. i neglect them a bit too much sometimes.


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## LUDACRIS (Nov 9, 2009)

joshkrauss said:


> pretty sure spider mites leave white spots. ive had mite before and they left white spots and cob webs, i have a similar problem to the pics above now and its not a mite infestation


100% mites i have dealt with them and know straight away that thats mites.
no doubt whatsoever.
but this thread is very old.

LUDA.


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## consume (Nov 10, 2009)

LUDACRIS said:


> 100% mites i have dealt with them and know straight away that thats mites.
> no doubt whatsoever.
> but this thread is very old.
> 
> LUDA.


 
Here's a look at one of my plants. No bugs, but rust color on lower leaves. 

I had been using rhizotonic as a foliage spray once a day.

Aero system, with Canna aqua veg at 600 ppm. 1 week in veg.

Any idea what is going on?

First two pics, top of lower leaf with problems. Third pic is of top growth. Fourth pic is the bottom side of first two pictures.


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## Roland (Nov 10, 2009)

consume said:


> Here's a look at one of my plants. No bugs, but rust color on lower leaves.
> 
> I had been using rhizotonic as a foliage spray once a day.
> 
> ...


I found this info ... it pertains to Rust fungus ... I don't know if this is what you have ..


http://www.gardensalive.com/article.asp?ai=682&eid=082706ga&sid=143894&gclid=CMC_uoeUgJ4CFQgtawodDQUUqQ&bhcd2=1257846759


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## consume (Nov 10, 2009)

Roland said:


> I found this info ... it pertains to Rust fungus ... I don't know if this is what you have ..
> 
> 
> http://www.gardensalive.com/article.asp?ai=682&eid=082706ga&sid=143894&gclid=CMC_uoeUgJ4CFQgtawodDQUUqQ&bhcd2=1257846759


I did a nute flush a few days ago when I first saw the issue. It's been 3 days. Going to wait and see if things turn around. 

If not, back to the drawing board.


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## LUDACRIS (Nov 10, 2009)

consume said:


> Here's a look at one of my plants. No bugs, but rust color on lower leaves.
> 
> I had been using rhizotonic as a foliage spray once a day.
> 
> ...


 

P.H fluctuation.

LUDA.


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## demonic1 (Nov 10, 2009)

Its magnesium deficiency. Starts on the older fan leaves and moves up the plant. The fan leaves canoe shape and the veins stay dark green while the leaves develop necrosis between the veins. (Which are the brown spots you see?) Give it 1 tsp Epson salt per gallon for the next two watering. The spots wont heel but the leaves will start looking healthier and your plant will start greening back up. You can also add garden lime to your soil before planting next time but feeding them some Epson salt now will help it a lot.


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## LUDACRIS (Nov 10, 2009)

demonic1 said:


> Its magnesium deficiency. Starts on the older fan leaves and moves up the plant. The fan leaves canoe shape and the veins stay dark green while the leaves develop necrosis between the veins. (Which are the brown spots you see?) Give it 1 tsp Epson salt per gallon for the next two watering. The spots wont heel but the leaves will start looking healthier and your plant will start greening back up. You can also add garden lime to your soil before planting next time but feeding them some Epson salt now will help it a lot.



bullshit.

LUDA.


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## Imaulle (Nov 10, 2009)

My leaves looked identical to OPs, and it was 100% magnesium deficiency.

I bomb and bleach my entire room between each grow so no way it could have been spider mites for me...


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## SMOKEnCHOKE (Nov 11, 2009)

I get same problem early in vegging and it's def not bugs...I find if I adjust the ph a little too much it gets worse so I assume that's the cause


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## SOTW GTR (Dec 24, 2009)

LUDACRIS said:


> bullshit.
> 
> LUDA.


your bullshit LUDA learn your plant problems and stop giving bad advice. yes its mag def. 100% that early in plant life IF it was mites, would have NO brown spots. that plants what 3-4 weeks old? mites need to infest for a solid six weeks to BROWN spot damage. the mites need time to eat plant, plant needs time to brown the damaged spot. 


i get this as well in every grow i do. at first sign i spray with epsom salt foliar feed @ 1 tsp per 32oz of water. make sure to use 2 oz of warm water to desolve the salt. fill rest of the way with cool water. spray 2x week till problem stops. should take no time at all, your plants will respond very well and fast to a foliar feeding.

peace \m/ SOTW


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## Mr.GreenJeans (Dec 25, 2009)

Get some Cal-Mag and add 1 tsp to each gallon of water (every watering). Problem should go away within 5 to 10 days.


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## streetlegal (Jan 9, 2010)

consume said:


> Here's a look at one of my plants. No bugs, but rust color on lower leaves.
> 
> I had been using rhizotonic as a foliage spray once a day.
> 
> ...


i have this exact problem, which was mainly just older bigger fan leaves but now its moving on to basically all the fan leaves except for the really new ones..
I foliar sprayed with some epsom salts about a week ago and they have only deterioated more..
Is the consensus still Mag def?
The plants is about 2 months old in coco using canna coco a+b.. other strains of various ages some showing slight signs but others showing none at all

Edit: i have to add that the rusting is mostly concentrated BETWEEN the leaf veins and more spread along the whole leaf, but its very similar and im sure its the same as Consume's pic.


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## streetlegal (Jan 9, 2010)

bump


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## t0hkin (Jan 9, 2010)

I use DWC with R/O water and GH nutes I had those same spots on my leaves too. I've started adding cal-mag 10ml/g to my regular nutes. All the new growth is fine...


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## streetlegal (Jan 9, 2010)

t0hkin said:


> I use DWC with R/O water and GH nutes I had those same spots on my leaves too. I've started adding cal-mag 10ml/g to my regular nutes. All the new growth is fine...


 thanks man.. well im gonna have to go ahead and start blind with the cal/mag cos ive just noticed the same rust shit startin up on my whiteberrys now..
It occours in between the leaf veins


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## DannyGreenEyes (Jan 17, 2010)

Looks like either a calcium or mag deficiency, check this site for examples and you'll see problems that look just like yours http://www.ganjaguerrilla.net/index.htm Everyone should have this site book marked, it helped me out many a time when I couldn't find help here, and I'm only half way through my first grow. lol

I had a similar problem recently, I thought it was nute burns at first because I had more deficiences that turned the leaf tips brown. I fed them with just 1/3 teaspoon of FF Tiger Bloom per gallon and it stopped. So my brown spots must have been a mag deficiency because FF Tiger Bloom doesn't have calcium.

Cal-Mag would cover both bases just in case, and personally I would also feed them something else so I can cover more of the minor nutes just in case.

And there's no way it's Mites. I see Luda's spreading his bad advice here too. Not only does it not look like mite damage, but if it were mites, by now they'd be way out of control and all your plants would be dead.


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## Imaulle (Jan 17, 2010)

that floranova grow has too much Calcium and is causing a Magnesium deficiency.


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## metroplex (Jan 18, 2010)

yip deffinitely a magnesium problem after checking this site out http://www.ganjaguerrilla.net/index.htm thanks Imaulle that sie you posted i will seriously book mark if i were you chaps. i go the same problem with the leaves cupping upwards a little then eventually the droop a little then that rusty shit starts. going to get some epsom salts right now... cheers


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## CheechD (Jan 18, 2010)

I had the same in my white widows it was a mag deficincy i started doing a carbo mag feed it cleared up


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## katfish32 (Apr 5, 2010)

hoots123 said:


> here is a couple that have rusted bad.. and i really have no nutes in these onse.. some are seedling femenized seeds and the others are clones.. but ya this is when the rusting's gone wild.
> 
> wow they look bad haha! damnit.. i neglect them a bit too much sometimes.



I am having this same problem has any one determined what is causing this


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## perfectgrow033 (Apr 5, 2010)

Spidermites as well? Already checked for black dots and there are none.. week 6-7 of flowering..


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## dangledo (Apr 5, 2010)

old thread... but thanks for the info, I was assuming i have a mg def and I was going through forums just to see if any had same problems. sure enough mine looks identical to most. with no spidermites to speak of. Thanks for that link of GANJA GUERRILLAS! bookmarked and rep to you!


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## OhiOhi (Apr 6, 2010)

Boring Infos:
-dwc setup 
-lucas formula
-ph 6.0
-ec 1,0
Same problem: RUST SPOT

I think it is cal mag def but my nutrient label say:

FloraMicro: N 5% K 1,3%* Ca 7%* ......

FloraBloom: P 5% K 4% *Mg 3% * S 5%.

I'm using Lucas Formula at half strenght: 4 ml M 8 ml B per gallons.

I don't know how much calcium and magnesium a plant needs but i think this formula has enough cal mag.

What do you think?


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## OhiOhi (Apr 7, 2010)

I hope you could help me because i really dont' know what it is...


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## guappy17 (Apr 7, 2010)

i've had my leaves looking like this too and i've had spider mites. The spider mites were white spots (I used a neem oil spray) and the rusty spots were a mg def, but also heat stress will produce a similar effect to the rusty spotting only fuller in color instead of spotty in color.


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## doniawon (Apr 7, 2010)

LUDACRIS said:


> bullshit.
> 
> LUDA.


 its not mites .. too many nutes..


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## caligrow (Jun 30, 2010)

hey did u ever get the solution to that problem?


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## Themightyquinn (Jan 14, 2011)

Im having the same problem. Its not spider mites ive checked over and over with eyes and 30x and 60x magnifying glass. Ive seen spider mites before. Im curious to know what it is though. If anyone has a good answer besides spider mites please post! I just started doing some research on it. I think i might be over fertalizing im not sure though.


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## knowledgelife (Feb 15, 2011)

ph is more accurate, mite's are visible once a mite problem gets that bad.


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## knowledgelife (Feb 15, 2011)

check roots, for fungus nats, other wise nut defect. flush lightly and try again. Foliar feedings should help in these cases. don't over fertilize.
you'll cause a lock up.


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## Devilspawn (Feb 15, 2011)

Mine turned out to be Cal Mg- as soon as I added some untreated well water ( 300 pmm, 19 grain) and epsom salts, it stopped. The DI water/RO water leaves them deficient. ALso helped buffer pH swings


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## dangledo (Feb 15, 2011)

knowledgelife said:


> check roots, for fungus nats, other wise nut defect. flush lightly and try again. Foliar feedings should help in these cases. don't over fertilize.
> you'll cause a lock up.


defect of the nut?


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## Shankapotomus (Mar 1, 2011)

Thought I would check this thread out and see what happens as I learn a lot from looking around and getting some advise. This post is old, but I will post anyway in hopes
that someone else can learn from my experiences.
The Particulars:
Flower room.
2 1000 HPS on rail 12/12
20 bucket RDWC 3.5 gals each + 50gal res. recirculates 1hr for every2
Inside grow 
City water, 24hr rest @117ppm
Nutes. GH, running Lucus 8/16 brought down to800-900ppm
Running CO2 generator with controller @1500ppm
Day air temp, 75/85
Night air temp 60/65
Humidity day up to 75% Night 45/50
*** Nute Temp trying to keep under 69, but has ran as high as 75. I currently await arrival of chiller, for now frozen water bottles.
I am 3 weeks old into this new room and am still dialing it in. It is fully controlled and I just need to get the nute temp in check. don't want to fully diagnose this till all is well and dialed in.
Plant health, 75 to 95%.
Ok following this thread here is the problem I have. Spots getting
worse,spreading and eventually the leaf dies.
FYI NO BUGS!

Here is what it starts off as.







Next it progress's to this.










And finally to here.










I am thinking it's a Mag deficiency. I am going to treat with foliage spraying
with Cal/Mag as soon as I get my nute temp in control.
Will give update through out treatment. 







 

​
​


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Jul 9, 2012)

something like this ?


HB20


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## purphayz (Jan 29, 2013)

who ever said spider mites needs to go back to kindergarden ....


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## WisdomFarmer (Jul 31, 2014)

20 years of growing told me its ph, like the first bloke said . The End.


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## Soilwatcher (Feb 11, 2015)

Although spider mites can leave similar symptoms, most of the example photos on this thread appear to be mag deficiency. If you use Epsom Salts, make sure it is Organic Epsom Salts (OMRI Listed) for Ag use. Make sure to keep an eye on your pH as the sulfur in ES can drop your pH very quickly (especially in soil grows) resulting in nutrient lock-up.

This problem can also result from high humidity or over-misting. Most leaf spot diseases need very high humidity for a prolonged period of time (12 to 24 hours) to start an infection. Leaf spots often mature in one to two weeks. At this point spores or bacteria can be spread throughout the canopy, starting a second set of leaf spots, or causing new infections on other plants. This cycle of infection and spore production repeats whenever conditions are favorable. As a result, leaf spot pathogens can spread throughout your canopy resulting in severe disease. In commercial organic Ag, we use BioWorks Cease for controlling a wide array of both fungal and bacterial pathogens. We normally add this to our "Worm Tea" for foliar and soil application. It is important to treat your soil as spores will reside there until favorable conditions occur and you get a repeat of the problem.


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## bullSnot (Jan 6, 2017)

what a bunch of quacks...I read three threads on this, I got mites, cigarette smoke, ph, fungus, nutes....you CANT diagnose accurately on a forum unless you have a botanist PHD and even that is questionable....you have light burn...thats my quack diagnosis


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## Misterbeans (Oct 26, 2018)

bullSnot said:


> what a bunch of quacks...I read three threads on this, I got mites, cigarette smoke, ph, fungus, nutes....you CANT diagnose accurately on a forum unless you have a botanist PHD and even that is questionable....you have light burn...thats my quack diagnosis


Well time for me to pipe up as a 20 year grower of grass lol. I see different samples in the pics, to properly diagnose humidity and everything is a factor. The rust fungus is easy to figure out, rub the leaf with your fingers if it leaves your finger rust you figured it out, cut only the bad parts for the leaves. I've experienced it. I have dealt with several issues and studied for years deficiencies. I must say with the minimum info I have in my opinion it looks like ph fluctuation or incorrect ph. I recommend no nutrients at all and flushing the soil or . Then make sure you use correct ph for soil. If it's hydro I would say the same ph issue it's not spider mites people make a huge deal of mites and they are not cool but it takes long time to develop issues and it looks nothing like this. Nutes, nutes, nutes huh lol. I hate to rain on the parade but in soil they are not needed unless there is a deficiency. The hype that adding nutes gains yield and faster grows is a sales pitch, there is no magic formula. 2 plants same strain same nutes even from same mother will yield different amounts. If you want a successful grow I'll give you advice. Take 6 plants same strain give 3 nutes and the other 3 no nutes and tell me which one comes out better. Heat stress can be avoided with co2. Anyway I know it's an old thread but regardless cut the bad part of the leaves off and correct the ph and maintain the same level. They will be fine with minimal stress. Always start with ph first and it's more common to have too many nutrients or a lock out from incorrect ph than a deficiency. Deficiency had been thrown around to sell nutes like diamonds are rare lol. Most importantly of all and here it goes ventilation, make sure your tent has the correct air exchange you can get the same issues. Everything shrivels up and dies when you choke it, quit beating your meat and smoking grass and fix that weed


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## Loudigity (Dec 17, 2019)

Genosyde said:


> my plant looks just like this but not as severe very few brown spots, but i DO mist my plant often, does that have something to do with it as well? my plant looks like that last pic that @charlie posted in certain areas, should i run a ph test?


If you mist with lights on could burn leaves. In my experience its a fungi the rust coloured spots people often mistake it for a deficiency


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## vertnugs (Dec 17, 2019)

10 years


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## ruxing (Dec 19, 2019)

Misterbeans said:


> Well time for me to pipe up as a 20 year grower of grass lol. I see different samples in the pics, to properly diagnose humidity and everything is a factor. The rust fungus is easy to figure out, rub the leaf with your fingers if it leaves your finger rust you figured it out, cut only the bad parts for the leaves. I've experienced it. I have dealt with several issues and studied for years deficiencies. I must say with the minimum info I have in my opinion it looks like ph fluctuation or incorrect ph. I recommend no nutrients at all and flushing the soil or . Then make sure you use correct ph for soil. If it's hydro I would say the same ph issue it's not spider mites people make a huge deal of mites and they are not cool but it takes long time to develop issues and it looks nothing like this. Nutes, nutes, nutes huh lol. I hate to rain on the parade but in soil they are not needed unless there is a deficiency. The hype that adding nutes gains yield and faster grows is a sales pitch, there is no magic formula. 2 plants same strain same nutes even from same mother will yield different amounts. If you want a successful grow I'll give you advice. Take 6 plants same strain give 3 nutes and the other 3 no nutes and tell me which one comes out better. Heat stress can be avoided with co2. Anyway I know it's an old thread but regardless cut the bad part of the leaves off and correct the ph and maintain the same level. They will be fine with minimal stress. Always start with ph first and it's more common to have too many nutrients or a lock out from incorrect ph than a deficiency. Deficiency had been thrown around to sell nutes like diamonds are rare lol. Most importantly of all and here it goes ventilation, make sure your tent has the correct air exchange you can get the same issues. Everything shrivels up and dies when you choke it, quit beating your meat and smoking grass and fix that weed


Best advice I've read so far @Misterbeans! 


Soilwatcher said:


> Although spider mites can leave similar symptoms, most of the example photos on this thread appear to be mag deficiency. If you use Epsom Salts, make sure it is Organic Epsom Salts (OMRI Listed) for Ag use. Make sure to keep an eye on your pH as the sulfur in ES can drop your pH very quickly (especially in soil grows) resulting in nutrient lock-up.
> 
> This problem can also result from high humidity or over-misting. Most leaf spot diseases need very high humidity for a prolonged period of time (12 to 24 hours) to start an infection. Leaf spots often mature in one to two weeks. At this point spores or bacteria can be spread throughout the canopy, starting a second set of leaf spots, or causing new infections on other plants. This cycle of infection and spore production repeats whenever conditions are favorable. As a result, leaf spot pathogens can spread throughout your canopy resulting in severe disease. In commercial organic Ag, we use BioWorks Cease for controlling a wide array of both fungal and bacterial pathogens. We normally add this to our "Worm Tea" for foliar and soil application. It is important to treat your soil as spores will reside there until favorable conditions occur and you get a repeat of the problem.


Good stuff here too @Soilwatcher! I had the rust when I up-potted and the humidity increased... need to look into a good organic fungal spray, I'll be looking into that product thanks for sharing


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