# Yeah! It's Bud Worm Season. Pics



## CrazyChester (Sep 11, 2008)

Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.

I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?

Here's some pics of my two plants progress. You can see the damage done to one of the buds and one of our crawly little pests.

If anyone has any idea of the strains I'm growing I'd sure like to know.


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## KushKing949 (Sep 11, 2008)

i hate them bastards i have to go out into my garden every morning with latex gloves and tweasers and pick the fuckers outta my sweet smelling buds and clean up the mess they made if that means chopping and throwing away buds i also find tons of eggs as well and fuck its just so many..good thing i got alot of colas that arent infested yet im not afraid to dig into my sticky buds to make sure they are clean this is my first grow and i will be prepared for em next yr.


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## bterz (Sep 11, 2008)

wtf I thought this was all stuff up north.

If your plants are in pots does this reduce the chance of getting them....

Damn im scared now!!


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## KushKing949 (Sep 11, 2008)

bterz said:


> wtf I thought this was all stuff up north.
> 
> If your plants are in pots does this reduce the chance of getting them....
> 
> Damn im scared now!!


if your outdoors u have a good chance of getting them unless u were prepared i wasnt so i got them i have to search my buds everyday and i find tons its gross


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## potroast (Sep 11, 2008)

For budworms, you should spray your plants every 3 weeks with BT, a beneficial bacteria, throughout their veg state, and the first half of flowering. That will keep the worms from growing on your plants. And that way, you don't have to spray your ripening buds.

BT will affect the taste of your bud if used too late in the season. It's just fine to wash your plants before harvest. Even my indoor plants are sometimes taken outside on harvest day and sprayed down well with a fine spray, and then dried for a couple of hours and harvested.

HTH


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## KushKing949 (Sep 11, 2008)

i think my buds are too far along for me to be spraying BT on em


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## CrazyChester (Sep 11, 2008)

The buds on my infested plant are about three weeks out from harvest so I'll hit it again in about 10 days then let it finish. My other plant is about 4 to 5 weeks out so I might have to hit it twice. If I remember correctly fdd sprayed his last year up until about two or three weeks before harvest. Am I correct on that fdd? 
I've sprayed my tomatoes with BT in the evening and harvested the next morning with no problems. I'm not to afraid of toxic problems because BT is considered an organic pesticide. I'm more worried about flavor.


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## Dan Nabis (Sep 11, 2008)

I think I would dry those worms out and crush em up into a bowl and puff away.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 11, 2008)

potroast said:


> For budworms, you should spray your plants every 3 weeks with BT, a beneficial bacteria, throughout their veg state, and the first half of flowering. That will keep the worms from growing on your plants. And that way, you don't have to spray your ripening buds.
> 
> BT will affect the taste of your bud if used too late in the season. It's just fine to wash your plants before harvest. Even my indoor plants are sometimes taken outside on harvest day and sprayed down well with a fine spray, and then dried for a couple of hours and harvested.
> 
> HTH


I couldn't quite determine how big that bud worm was. A week or two ago I found a little brown caterpillar thing in one of my girls, and I picked it off. Now I'm noticing that I have what locals call "meat bees" picking through my plants, and I'm wondering if they're finding and eating more of these little things I found. It was between 1/4"-18" long.

What's the BT, or the bacteria that are in it?

Are the GrowFAQs back up yet?


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## KushKing949 (Sep 11, 2008)

Dan Nabis said:


> I think I would dry those worms out and crush em up into a bowl and puff away.


why in the world would you do that?????? i would seriously like to see you do it. I think it would be funny. and a lil dee dee dee !


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## DIRTHAWKER (Sep 11, 2008)

I had to chop the colas off of two of my best plants and harvest early beacuse of these bud worms. What happends is, butterfly moths lay there eggs in the bud and a week or so later you get the worms that eat your bud and there excriment is what rots the bud from inside out.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 11, 2008)

i've been spraying Bt at least once a week. i will spray until the last 2 weeks or so. we have foggy evenings in the fall so it rinses everything.


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## Blazingimmortals (Sep 11, 2008)

Monterey Insecticide with spinosad use that make sure you spray them good once a week until them little buggers are no more this stuff is so good it will kill the larvae 

It will not interfere with taste  




Good Luck


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## madcow (Sep 11, 2008)

put a scarecrow up it'll scare away all the moths!!!


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## madcow (Sep 11, 2008)

in Canada where I am anyway we don't have this problem.u still see the odd Caterpillar around but the moths are done laying eggs by now,lucky i guess.if any one knows about this pls enlighten me!!


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## stonerbean (Sep 11, 2008)

wow dude ur plants are nice. wouldn't mind smokin that lol
but negative on the worms n moths, i dont know about them but those aren't our friends. =(
thats gotta suck.


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## otisroundtree (Sep 11, 2008)

BT to the rescue...no worreis man it will work..you need to really drench those buds with a sprayer. This is also a good time to find the weak spots that may break off when those things pack weight the final 2 weeks and the wind and rain picks up...just tie em up if they get to leanin'. You see how that thing is embedded in the bud so really get them soaking wet!


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## blackout (Sep 11, 2008)

man i have never seen bugs like that in my buds in oz ,fucking horrilble litter critters.
we do get cabbage moths though ,but i put down large broken eggshells ,and they are supposed to think they are other cabbage moths so stay away,that could be utter crap ,but the shells are good for the garden eventually ,and i have never seen them in my plants ,and hope never too ,maybe we dont get them here.??


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## CrazyChester (Sep 12, 2008)

The first two pics show the type of damage done to the three buds in question. Now that I've sprayed, should I remove the damaged buds? 

Thanks fdd for your comment. I remembered correctly your advise from last year.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 12, 2008)

CrazyChester said:


> The first two pics show the type of damage done to the three buds in question. Now that I've sprayed, should I remove the damaged buds?
> 
> Thanks fdd for your comment. I remembered correctly your advise from last year.


yes, remove any damaged bud. if the dead or damaged bud gets wet it starts to rot. you have to get all the bug poop outta there as well. it will cause rot and mildew.


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## CrazyChester (Sep 12, 2008)

Thanks, I'll cut off the damaged buds this morning. Is it better to completely saturate the plant with BT or would it be better to hit it more often and use less. With my veggies I hit it until its just wet then hit it again about 3 days latter.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 12, 2008)

CrazyChester said:


> Thanks, I'll cut off the damaged buds this morning. Is it better to completely saturate the plant with BT or would it be better to hit it more often and use less. With my veggies I hit it until its just wet then hit it again about 3 days latter.


use less more often. it burns. i mixed it just a little heavy last year, maybe a tablespoon and a half in a gallon of water. burnt my plants. i have been misting until the leaves just start to drip. i do this 3 times a week. i can see small holes in my leaves here and there but no further damage and no caterpillars. *keeping fingers crossed*


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## Kludge (Sep 12, 2008)

Use neem oil. It's safe for fruiting plants which means it won't kill you if you spray it on the buds.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 12, 2008)




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## CrazyChester (Sep 13, 2008)

Yep, that's the stuff. With veggies you can spray and harvest the same day. I've read that ranchers feed it to animals to ride them of certain parasites. 

The directions say to mix one or two teaspoons per gallon so I mixed it at 2 tsp/gal and haven't seen any plant damage. I'm going to spray a second dose tomorrow. Its three times a week until I get down to the last two weeks. 

I hope I can make it another month without getting to paranoid. The Mormon neighbors make me worry.


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## tristis (Sep 13, 2008)

Praying Mantis solves this NP. They hatch in late July but mature and feed at the end of August when buds are blooming. We've had them established in our yard for 15 years plus. Very cool looking but also killers when it comes to plant parasites. You can buy them but it wouldn't help until next year. I have seen at least 5 sitting on my plants at any one time ready to eat anything that dares to touch my babies. You also don't have to flush after spraying lol.


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## potroast (Sep 16, 2008)

Well, I meant what I said about *B*acillus* T*huringiensis affecting the taste of your bud. The last time I grew an outdoor crop (uhhh, 1994) I sprayed them 3 weeks before harvest, which I thought was plenty of time to wait, and the buds smelled like BT for a month after drying.

HTH


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## Sedition (Sep 16, 2008)

I'd like to see Dan do that aswell actually. What a retard lol.


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## Petrostyle (Sep 16, 2008)

Damn buddy that looks like some straight fire that sucks about the worms. Hope its all taken care of very soon!


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## CrazyChester (Sep 17, 2008)

I've only lost about 4 buds. I removed the damaged buds cleaned them up, fast dried them and gave them a smoke. WOW!

I'm hoping I've got them under control but if not I'm going to harvest my plant. Its about two weeks from finishing but I'd rather harvest early than loose it all to the worms.

Its funny, my other plant shows no damage so far.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 17, 2008)

CrazyChester said:


> I've only lost about 4 buds. I removed the damaged buds cleaned them up, fast dried them and gave them a smoke. WOW!
> 
> I'm hoping I've got them under control but if not I'm going to harvest my plant. Its about two weeks from finishing but I'd rather harvest early than loose it all to the worms.
> 
> Its funny, my other plant shows no damage so far.


i lost a few lbs to them last year. went straight into the garbage.


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## bterz (Sep 17, 2008)

If it makes anyone feel better I lost well over 2 oz's to them this season.


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## Dan Nabis (Sep 17, 2008)

ahh fellas, I would never crush up and smoke a worm even if it was full of my hard grown THC. Was just joking around

Is it okay to soak your budding plants with neem oil and will that prevent or kill these worms and caterpillars? Also, will neem oil help keep rot and/or mildew in check on your maturing buds?


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## CrazyChester (Sep 19, 2008)

I went out this morning and after 3 doses of BT I still had worms. So I decided to start taking the plant down. As I started manicuring the buds I learned a little about Bud Worms. They seem to hatch and grow from the inside of the bud and then eat and crap their way out. Sometimes they take a round about way out to the surface and sometime they come straight to the surface. I had one work its way half way up to the top of a nice cola.
To me it stands to reason that the moth comes in and lays its eggs on the buds, then the plant grows the bud around the eggs, then after the bud has developed the worms hatch. This makes it real important that you start spraying early because its hard to get the BT deep enough into the bud to kill the worms when they first hatch. You can spray late and still kill the worms that are already on the surface and you should, but the damage has already been done once you see the worms on the surface. 

Conclusion: Follow fdd's advice and start spraying early and spray often. I think that if you did this you could use lighter concentrations of BT.

Fortunately I've had a lot of worms that made for the surface right away. So I've only lost about 8 buds, which were all at the top of the plant. The lower limbs have little to no damage so far. I'm glad that I cut it. Two more weeks and I would have probably lost half of the plant. And when you're only growing two plants that's a lot of loss.

I would have taken pictures today but my hands were so stickey that I didn't want to pick up my camera.

I do have some Pics of the plant just before I started chopping it. The first four pics are of the infested plan and the rest are from the other plant that needs at least another three weeks but seems bug free so far. I'm sure bummed that I had to cut her down early. But its better than giving half of it to the bugs.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 19, 2008)

beautiful plants. stupid worms. i have those little tiny brown moths all over my backyard. i'm still lightly misting every 3 or 4 days. everything looks ok, so far.


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## Tongbokes (Sep 19, 2008)

Hope all works out well for ya CrazyChester . Those are butes !!!!


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## CrazyChester (Sep 19, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> beautiful plants. stupid worms. i have those little tiny brown moths all over my backyard. i'm still lightly misting every 3 or 4 days. everything looks ok, so far.


You probably won't have the problems I had since you started early. Next time I'll take your advice and start as soon as I see flowers. I'll still get about a half pound from this plant which would nearly fill my needs for the year. And I'll get nearly the same from the other plant as long as the bugs don't start in.

I noticed one other thing about my two plants. The plant that is bug free has spiders on it and the bug ridden plant doesn't. Could be that the spiders either ward off the moths or they eat the eggs or the eat the hatchling worms. Who knows.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 19, 2008)

CrazyChester said:


> You probably won't have the problems I had since you started early. Next time I'll take your advice and start as soon as I see flowers. I'll still get about a half pound from this plant which would nearly fill my needs for the year. And I'll get nearly the same from the other plant as long as the bugs don't start in.
> 
> I noticed one other thing about my two plants. The plant that is bug free has spiders on it and the bug ridden plant doesn't. Could be that the spiders either ward off the moths or they eat the eggs or the eat the hatchling worms. Who knows.


spiders do help. i have little brown moths flying everywhere. those ones you find in your flour or whatever. as i walk across my yard they fly up outta the grass. they are EVERYWHERE!! i hope the Bt is working. my plants are too tall for me to see the tops. i have no idea what's going on up there.


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## CrazyChester (Sep 19, 2008)

I know the little brown moths lay eggs on broccoli plants and broccoli has flowers that in some ways resemble pot flowers. BT works great on the broccoli worms.

I've also found that bud worms like sunlight. Last year I brought my buds out into the sunlight to take some pictures and as soon as I spread them out in the sun they all came up to the surface. That's probably why I find them in heaver concentration on the colas.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 19, 2008)

I can't remember the name of those moths, are you two sure it's those that make the worms? Do you think someone who hasn't seen moths is alright? I usually have a lot of "baby hornets" out going through my girls first thing in the a.m., but these past few mornings have been getting cooler and cooler and I don't see them anymore. Now we've got praying mantises all over the place, but they don't stay where you put them.

Anyway, my buds aren't too thick yet, how common is this problem? I see a lot of threads on bud worm and rot lately and it's got me concerned.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 19, 2008)

tristis said:


> Praying Mantis solves this NP. They hatch in late July but mature and feed at the end of August when buds are blooming. We've had them established in our yard for 15 years plus. Very cool looking but also killers when it comes to plant parasites. You can buy them but it wouldn't help until next year. I have seen at least 5 sitting on my plants at any one time ready to eat anything that dares to touch my babies. You also don't have to flush after spraying lol.


Aha! That explains the explosion of them that we've been seeing.  I put one of them in my plants this morning, but now I'll just start catching them and moving them all out there.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 19, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> I can't remember the name of those moths, are you two sure it's those that make the worms? Do you think someone who hasn't seen moths is alright? I usually have a lot of "baby hornets" out going through my girls first thing in the a.m., but these past few mornings have been getting cooler and cooler and I don't see them anymore. Now we've got praying mantises all over the place, but they don't stay where you put them.
> 
> Anyway, my buds aren't too thick yet, how common is this problem? I see a lot of threads on bud worm and rot lately and it's got me concerned.


you have all the right defenses if they do come. wasp are excellent hunters. mantis as well. i hatched out mantis eggs again this year but only saw one mantis about 2 weeks ago. i only kill the wasp that are in common areas. we have nests everywhere throughout the property that i leave alone. keep an eye out for top fan leaves close to the buds. you will see little eaten holes here and there. i have numerous species of moths attacking me.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 20, 2008)

I have noticed little holes on higher fan leaves on two plants, but not a lot, just a couple here and there. I also thought about putting out some wet catfood to attract the hornets and wasps back up here, I'm wondering if the cooler weather is signaling them to go underground, or what. I told Dave I want to try to collect the mantises, and maybe give them a few of Yoshi's crickets, see if that will encourage them to stay up on the deck. I haven't noticed any tiny moths, though (we also have no grass, just dry weeds for the most part).

It looks like it's gonna be a bright and sunny day today. Thank you for the info, fdd.


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## worble (Sep 20, 2008)

whats this BT spray real name? thanks jeff


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## fdd2blk (Sep 20, 2008)

Bacillus Thuringiensis


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## [email protected] (Sep 20, 2008)

This may be a bit long-winded, but please bear with me.

I grow outdoors and haven't had a problem with budworms (didn't even know there was such a thing until I spoke with a friend today. We're both novices  at outdoor growing, but I am lucky enough to have found a knowledgeable supply store. My friend (in another state) doesn't have the same good fortune. I've been able to pass on a lot of information to him but there are still a couple of questions we haven't been able to solve. You sound pretty up-to-date with grow info,so perhaps you'd be kind enough to help out?

1. Where can BT be purchased and what is its full name?

2. What are the possible ramifications of early harvest (potential weather problems in my friend's neck of the woods (SF Bay Area).

3. General info: On many websites relative to mj I see references to "420". What does that mean?

Many thanks in advance if you're able to help a couple of novices!

P.S. I'm also not terrifically computer-savvy. I think the only reason I got this far on this site is PFL (pure fucking luck).

If you are willing to answer my questions, I'd love to have you send me a direct email. I'm *[email protected]*. I'm a state-licensed user/grower in Coos Bay, Oregon, so I feel secure in discussing problems online, but perhaps there are issues involved that I'm not aware of. If so, I'll cross my fingers and hope I can find my way back to this site later on. (I'm blaming ALL my problems on rapidly-advancing age!)

Now that I've looked at this site, I realize I don't know what a "thread" is. Would you educate me, please? Does it have anything to do with on-line chat rooms? I've never been in one.
If there are any security issues involved with a direct email, I understand.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 20, 2008)

A thread is basically a written conversation that remains more.. "permanent". There is a chat, but you have to be set up and I believe it's through the IRC networks. Pain in the ass, I used to use IRC years ago, but now I have other things I'd rather do.

Ok, onto your questions.

1. Bacillus thuringiensis. Bacillus thuringiensis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (the link is blue, click it)
Edited to add another link: http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/Insect/05556.html

2. Vastly decreased bud potency. Fdd has a thread about the problems of harvesting early versus harvesting late somewhere.

3. 420: 420 (cannabis culture) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wikipedia is pretty cool, the community sorts itself out sooner or later.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 20, 2008)

i'm in the bay area and there is NO reason to harvest early. i've had them outside until the end of Nov.


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## -=4:20=-Guy (Sep 20, 2008)

Wow those are some vibrant colors on your girls there; what strain are they?


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## worble (Sep 20, 2008)

thanks fdd wish i know about this i hope my buds dont have catapillars in them i ordered a bottle for them if the come i pray they are not in my buds grrrrrrrrrr jeff


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## fdd2blk (Sep 20, 2008)

i just chased that little butterfly all over my garden. it was trying to lay eggs in my buds. i watched it. little gold thing. about this size of a nickel. i also saw a wasp checking the leaves for eggs to eat.


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## paullee (Sep 20, 2008)

Hello all, My girls have been protected by a rather large yellowjacket's nest. I see them checking the girls all the time. I never seen any bugs on the ladies so I think the bees be good!


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## Seamaiden (Sep 20, 2008)

So, there really IS a use for yellowjackets (besides teasing).


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## CrazyChester (Sep 22, 2008)

-=4:20=-Guy said:


> Wow those are some vibrant colors on your girls there; what strain are they?


Man, I wish I knew. I got about 10 seeds form some really great pot about three years ago. I grew it last year and it was fantastic. If anybody has any idea of the strain please let me know. Does it look more sativa or indica.


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## CrazyChester (Sep 22, 2008)

I believe that the above plants have been protected by the spiders that live in the grape vines growing around the plant. My other plant was infested pretty bad so I harvested it about two weeks early. I'm happy I did because I lost about 3 ozs. Another two weeks and it would have been at least twice that much. Preliminary samplings of the buggy plant are really killer, I can't wait until it has cured for a few weeks. The above plant will probably finish around mid October.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 22, 2008)

CrazyChester said:


> Man, I wish I knew. I got about 10 seeds form some really great pot about three years ago. I grew it last year and it was fantastic. If anybody has any idea of the strain please let me know. Does it look more sativa or indica.


Pine tree. Maybe fir or cedar, maybe even a small redwood. That's my best guess, and I'm stickin' to it.


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## maxtor (Sep 22, 2008)

yup smoke those worms..........anyway dont cry your babies looks awesome


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## capnQWERTY13 (Sep 24, 2008)

Where can bud worms be found naturally?


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## otisroundtree (Sep 24, 2008)

On buds..it's outdoor thats still natural right???


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## deesbarrett (Sep 25, 2008)

What is BT??


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## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

Bacillus thurieng... hold on.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

Bacillus thuringiensis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## fdd2blk (Sep 26, 2008)

i've brought in about 3 pounds so far and not 1 worm. *knocks on wood*


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## 707DankSmoker (Sep 26, 2008)

Fuck these little bastards!!! They are everywhere!!! Luckily I havent found any in my crop yet but they are eating everyones elses. Im thinking about getting some BT just to be safe.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

I'd say that might be recommended. I'm finding HELL of praying mantises all over the place still, too. I think they have tiny little personalities, some let me hold them and others are totally skittish. They all trip me out when they turn their tiny heads to look at me, they're PEERING at me.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 26, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> I'd say that might be recommended. I'm finding HELL of praying mantises all over the place still, too. I think they have tiny little personalities, some let me hold them and others are totally skittish. They all trip me out when they turn their tiny heads to look at me, they're PEERING at me.


put 2 in a cage together and they will fight to the death. the loser gets eaten.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

Oh.. like cricket fights!  Dave would probably scalp me if I did that, though (and I'd deserve it).


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## deesbarrett (Sep 26, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> Oh.. like cricket fights!  Dave would probably scalp me if I did that, though (and I'd deserve it).


I went and Checked on my plants today and harvested one of them and the other 2 had little Catepillar eggs all over them...So I took some tweezers and picked every single one off...Took like 2 hours....And I went and Bought some BT Caterpillar killer today...Will be spraying it on them in the morning.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

deesbarrett said:


> I went and Checked on my plants today and harvested one of them and the other 2 had little Catepillar eggs all over them...So I took some tweezers and picked every single one off...Took like 2 hours....And I went and Bought some BT Caterpillar killer today...Will be spraying it on them in the morning.


Holy crap, I hope it does the job for you.  (You must have good eyes, too.)


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## deesbarrett (Sep 26, 2008)

LOL not really...Blind as a bat without my glasses...But I just took my time and checked every bud twice to make sure I got all those tiny little yellow eggs...wish i had my camera so i could of taken pictures of them..And they popped when you squeeze them...its so cool...lol...And for the stuff I harvested...I took a little bud and put it in a paper bag and stuck it on top of the fridge all night...And I just rolled it up and it smoked ok and tasted ok but it got me nice and toasty...got a little Permagrin going right now.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

deesbarrett said:


> LOL not really...Blind as a bat without my glasses...But I just took my time and checked every bud twice to make sure I got all those tiny little yellow eggs...wish i had my camera so i could of taken pictures of them..And they popped when you squeeze them...its so cool...lol...And for the stuff I harvested...I took a little bud and put it in a paper bag and stuck it on top of the fridge all night...And I just rolled it up and it smoked ok and tasted ok but it got me nice and toasty...got a little Permagrin going right now.


Permagrin, I like that. Shit-eatin' permagrin.


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## deesbarrett (Sep 26, 2008)

You got it...Cant wait for the Sour D to be dried a cured...My friend told me a way to do it in 2 weeks...So im gonna try that way...Time for a couple more tokes on the Joint...Stomach is acting up.


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## catstallker (Sep 27, 2008)

Thanks to everyone and there info. I have learned a lot . Thankls again!!!!


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## CrazyChester (Sep 30, 2008)

My plant is now cut, dried and in jars. I'm exceedingly happy with the yeald. I ended up with 14.5ozs of good smoke and 4 ozs of buggy stuff that I had to trash.Its too bad I had to cut it about two weeks early but at least I beat the bugs to it. Next year I'll start the BT as soon as I see the first flowers.
Its a great tasting smoke with an indica high. I'm dry mouthed with two good hits from the ol' bongo.
Here's a few pics of the plant from April 22 to September 18. Four days shy of 5 months. My other plant won't be finished for at least 2 more weeks. I hope the bugs don't get it.


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## doublejj (Sep 30, 2008)

How small are the moths?

Has anyone tried a screen or netting to cover the plants?


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## FastImpala (Oct 2, 2008)

I have a 2x2 redwood framed structure around mine thats about 4 or 5 feet tall and has screen door screen on it along with a heavy duty chicken type wire. Kinda double layer. Heavy duty chicken wire to keep out the animals and screen door screen to keep out the insects. View attachment 207737Tonight I added clear plastic visquine to the top to protect from the rain we are supposed to get tommorow. Easy to add a roof when you already have the walls. Sure makes it easy to tie to and the animals havent got to it yet. My theory is the worms are from moths and even though I have the top open 3 months out of 4, I still think it cuts down on the moths cause the moths have to fly upward and in to land on the buds and lay their eggs. I could be and probably am wrong. I was gonna put it on top too but thought it would cut down on the sunlight. Have had one worm so far and I elimintated him. No bud rot so far. Knock on wood.


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## deesbarrett (Oct 2, 2008)

FastImpala said:


> I have a 2x2 redwood framed structure around mine thats about 4 or 5 feet tall and has screen door screen on it along with a heavy duty chicken type wire. Kinda double layer. Heavy duty chicken wire to keep out the animals and screen door screen to keep out the insects. View attachment 207737Tonight I added clear plastic visquine to the top to protect from the rain we are supposed to get tommorow. Easy to add a roof when you already have the walls. Sure makes it easy to tie to and the animals havent got to it yet. My theory is the worms are from moths and even though I have the top open 3 months out of 4, I still think it cuts down on the moths cause the moths have to fly upward and in to land on the buds and lay their eggs. I could be and probably am wrong. I was gonna put it on top too but thought it would cut down on the sunlight. Have had one worm so far and I elimintated him. No bud rot so far. Knock on wood.


I am thinking about building something simular to yours but a little smaller for next years crop.How much did it cost for your materials?


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## deesbarrett (Oct 2, 2008)

doublejj said:


> How small are the moths?
> 
> Has anyone tried a screen or netting to cover the plants?


Not sure how small the moths are but the eggs are very tiny...took me hours to pick ever single one off.


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## FastImpala (Oct 2, 2008)

Most of my materials were from recycled past projects except the screen door screen, door hinges, hasp and a padlock i got at home depot .That stuff was about 75-100 bucks. The most important tool was the air powered stapler to make it somewhat easy to attach the wire and screen. Its all screwed together with galvanized deck screws done with my 7.2 volt cordless makita.


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## deesbarrett (Oct 2, 2008)

FastImpala said:


> Most of my materials were from recycled past projects except the screen door screen, door hinges, hasp and a padlock i got at home depot .That stuff was about 75-100 bucks. The most important tool was the air powered stapler to make it somewhat easy to attach the wire and screen. Its all screwed together with galvanized deck screws done with my 7.2 volt cordless makita.


Sounds very doable...I have alot of scrap wood sitting around too...May do some measurement tomorrow and see what I will need.Thanks.


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## doublejj (Oct 3, 2008)

I was thinking about something like Subcool's "Garden of Weeden" style. 

Bend some PVC tubing over the plants & cover it with screen-cloth.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 3, 2008)

doublejj said:


> I was thinking about something like Subcool's "Garden of Weeden" style.
> 
> Bend some PVC tubing over the plants & cover it with screen-cloth.



they crawl thru the lawn. i bet they'd get underneath. 

i just sprayed again. it may be the last time before i start harvesting. i plan on starting next weekend. i see eggs and moths. i think i saw one tiny dead spot on the tip of a cola. nothing inside.


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## doublejj (Oct 3, 2008)

.............Pesky little fuckers!

Well, if you could keep it down to, them having to crawl under, you could spray the ground with some 'SERIOUS' insecticide & that should stop them.

I'm just thinking out-loud here.


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## ****spliffstar***** (Oct 8, 2008)

I am in the same situation, I have three nice girlies and two of them have these caterpillars, I am picking them out every morning, and cutting off the affected bud. It's breaking my heart I am like 1 week away from harvest.

If I cut away the affected buds and dry them out, is it still smokable?


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## CrazyChester (Oct 8, 2008)

****spliffstar***** said:


> I am in the same situation, I have three nice girlies and two of them have these caterpillars, I am picking them out every morning, and cutting off the affected bud. It's breaking my heart I am like 1 week away from harvest.
> 
> If I cut away the affected buds and dry them out, is it still smokable?


I've cleaned em up and smoked em. Yum, tastes like chicken. But I did have some that were so damaged that I had to trash. I lost 4 oz from one plant this year and just a few buds off the other. I'm beginning to think that its the plants smell that attracts the moths. The Worm damaged plant (I call it Das Worm) had a heavy smell real early but the relatively undamaged plant (I call it Chopper because a police chopper circled my house so I freaked and chopped it down last Friday)didn't start to smell until about 4 weeks ago. Once it did start to smell it really reeked and the worms began to show up. Fortunately I started BT treatments back when I found worms on the damaged plant. So My second plant didn't get nearly the damage that my first plant got.


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## Seamaiden (Oct 8, 2008)

Jeez, I don't think I'll even be getting 4oz. from any single plant. Good thing I've gotten good at cloning, eh?

Have you seen the thread on japonic acid..? Damn.. I don't think that is its proper name. Someone just posted an article from a UK publication about a treatment for plants in the seed stage that seriously improves disease and pest resistance. I even found a U.S. source for it, and now I can't remember the name of the thread.


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## Smiley D (Oct 8, 2008)

Anybody have any idea what species of moth/butterfly caterpillars attack ganja?

I have yet to come across these things, I'm in the midwest.

There was a time a few years ago when I found a caterpillar chomping a nugget in a curing jar, that's it. I figured it was just a random caterpillar, no others on the plants.

Those of you that have trouble with bud worms, do you use any kind of pest control or bt or anything?

I never have and my plants are always just crawling with beneficials; spiders, daddy long legs, predatory crickets, yellow jackets, spiders, and more spiders. Even the occasional robber fly. I don't see how any pest insect could last more than a few minutes on the plants.

I've taken quite a few spider bites while working the garden, definitely worth it though.

Anybody know the species? I want to see if the much maligned bud worms are even native to my area.


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## ****spliffstar***** (Oct 8, 2008)

I am in Southern California and the caterpillar problem is pretty rampant. I stalked my plants and found out what's happening. Moths land on the plant at night, drop eggs and a week later you have these green and brown caterpillars free loading on my plants. I am going to go with a screen next grow.

I have been picking the caterpillars off in the morning, I look for buds that the hairs have turned all red, then I open the bud and sure enough caterpillar and eggs, I then pick the caterpillar off and smash it with a rock...It's probably stoned anyway hahaha.

Crazy Chester, I had a police helicopter circling and got paranoid as hell, but left the plants, I think I am ok.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 8, 2008)

every moth and butterfly in my county has visited my garden. from little tiny brown moths that fly outta the lawn to big gold butterflies. i have wasps and spiders working for me but the moths still get by them. i started spraying Bt when flowers first started forming. once your buds get some density to them the Bt won't get down inside. if the worm makes it past the Bt he's home free. if you have fat colas and you haven't sprayed yet you may already have them deep inside.


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## ****spliffstar***** (Oct 8, 2008)

I have never hated caterpillars and Moths so much in my life!!! 

Anyway, I guess I will pick out what I can, and harvest next week and dry those suckers out. I smoked Mexican Shwag for half my life back in day, not telling what I have smoked. Caterpillars and Eggs can't be too bad...

I must say, I wouldn't mind being a caterpillar eating through some Dank buds


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## Smiley D (Oct 8, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> if you have fat colas and you haven't sprayed yet you may already have them deep inside.
> 
> View attachment 212740 View attachment 212741


:shudder:

the horror


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## MediMaryUser (Oct 10, 2008)

crazychester said:


> yep, that's the stuff. With veggies you can spray and harvest the same day. I've read that ranchers feed it to animals to ride them of certain parasites.
> 
> The directions say to mix one or two teaspoons per gallon so i mixed it at 2 tsp/gal and haven't seen any plant damage. I'm going to spray a second dose tomorrow. Its three times a week until i get down to the last two weeks.
> 
> I hope i can make it another month without getting to paranoid. The mormon neighbors make me worry.


i have mormon neighbors too. Lol


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## MediMaryUser (Oct 10, 2008)

Is it all good to make hash out of the trashed bud?


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## Don't Do Drugs (Oct 11, 2008)

do praying mantises really work?


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## whoreable (Oct 12, 2008)

How about powder Diatomaceous Earth


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## Seamaiden (Oct 13, 2008)

Diatomaceous earth is widely used to control soft-bodied insects. However, one of my sisters has a pest control guy for their ant problem (she's in SoCal, so those of you down there probably know exactly what I mean) and HE uses nothing but DE. She says it WORKS, big time.


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## whoreable (Oct 13, 2008)

I like DE because its organic, and washes off after a few floral sprayings.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 17, 2008)

Don't Do Drugs said:


> do praying mantises really work?



You bet they do. Hands down a very efficient predator. I live in the country so I have TONS of Mantis' and they are all over my weed doing their job. If I find one in another part of the yard I will transport "it" on my shoulder to my patch. The mantis goes straight to work. Just don't drop one right next to another. 

If you have plenty of Ladybugs and Mantis' you won't have any problems at all with your buds concerning insect parasites.

out..


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## CrackerJax (Oct 20, 2008)

Unless you have a LOt of weed growing, I'd suggest just picking them off by hand. that's what I do. i don't kill them either, merely transport them elsewhere. They all have their jobs to do and I don't have the worm work manual to guide me, so I go by the best rule whenever possible. Do no harm.

Besides, they're cute.

out.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 20, 2008)

CrackerJax said:


> Unless you have a LOt of weed growing, I'd suggest just picking them off by hand. that's what I do. i don't kill them either, merely transport them elsewhere. They all have their jobs to do and I don't have the worm work manual to guide me, so I go by the best rule whenever possible. Do no harm.
> 
> Besides, they're cute.
> 
> out.



what do you suggest for those with A LOT of weed growing? i tried 200 mantis and they all just flew away. i've been spraying Bt for 2 months. i pick off everything i can.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 20, 2008)

Have you tried tying a string around their legs? JK!! Like I said if you have alot like, oh, I'll just throw out a completely random number .. 250, you may have to spray.
Did you introduce the mantis'? Or were they already in your yard? I have them everywhere so they stay put, but I'm guessing that if your area doesn't have a big pop, then they may move on more quickly. I live way down south so my mantis' are year round and plentiful. I get four harvests a year so i plant 50 at a clip and can pick thru them in about a half hour. It also lets me examine and catch Hermies (don't u hate 'em!?) now and again. I'm pretty much growing sans any chemicals whatsoever. Just hand picking and caring for them.
The mantis will not hover around and on my weed once it gets resiny tho. I guess its too sticky for their tastes.


Good luck!!

out.


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## imagoodgirl (Oct 20, 2008)

Help! I am pretty sure we have bud worms. We didn't know what they were so we harvested the buds which are now drying. The little worms we have look like greenish/brown inch worms with stripes. Is that what a bud worm looks like? And if so what do we do now? What is BT and where can i get it? I also have gnats. What do i do about them? Thanks


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## whoreable (Oct 20, 2008)

imagoodgirl said:


> Help! I am pretty sure we have bud worms. We didn't know what they were so we harvested the buds which are now drying. The little worms we have look like greenish/brown inch worms with stripes. Is that what a bud worm looks like? And if so what do we do now? What is BT and where can i get it? I also have gnats. What do i do about them? Thanks


 
It's too late to apply BT spray or powder now. You gotta watch out for those.

I have them too, i was going to harvest soon aswell, did you have little white egg's on the plant to? 

I just applied BT, pyrtherum didnt work to well.


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## imagoodgirl (Oct 20, 2008)

Not that i saw. Have the plants hanging now and removed all worms that are visable. will keep checking and removing worms. Dont know what else to do. have never had this problem before.


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## Seamaiden (Oct 21, 2008)

Yeah, I think it's a bit late. The BT spray is a preventative measure, it's got to be applied before the buds are thickened, so that it can already be in the areas it needs to be in so that the bacteria will attack the eggs/larvae (whichever means it uses) and kill before they grow. Bummer, I hope you didn't lose too much of your crop. 

The gnats are a sign of moisture, I wanted to get sticky traps for my room but we already had fly... what are those things? They're in a little cylinder and you pull it and this sticky yellow tape unwinds (IF you're lucky) and then you hang it up, those things.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 21, 2008)

you can always release ladybugs in your room. They will eat those mites.


out.


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## ****spliffstar***** (Oct 21, 2008)

imagoodgirl said:


> Not that i saw. Have the plants hanging now and removed all worms that are visable. will keep checking and removing worms. Dont know what else to do. have never had this problem before.


 
Did you have the plants close to a light at night? Those caterpillars are from Moths that have landed on your buds, and planted eggs on your buds, they then hatch into those green/brown caterpillars.

I had some this year, but I kept picking them off, the problem was that sometimes, I would turn the light on in my backyard to cook on the Barb B Q and the moths would land on my plants.

I am curing in jars right now, and I noticed another little green caterpillar in the Jar. I am for sure using BT next year...


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## CrackerJax (Oct 21, 2008)

Never underestimate the power of spiders either. We have Banana Silk spiders here who are ferocious moth catchers. I never clear a spider web in my plants. Also, if you run across any Wolf spiders, they are awesome on the worms. Nothing escapes those guys and they are fun to watch.

Good Luck!


out.


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## whoreable (Oct 22, 2008)

Harvested tonite, goddamn Im not growing outdoors anymore, or atleast leaving them to flower outside. 

They developed some Moth-Caterpillar's and they ruined some of the bud, and maybe a few passed my eye when trimming, i guess we will see. :smokin2:

They were sprayed with BT recently and not flushed correctly.

I have learned, the Durga Mata and Master Widow grow of mine will gain a great deal from this learning experience. RoorRip

Im going to invite a buddy over tonite, and start a fire in this small portable Open caged fireplace in the front yard. Im going to throw all the trimmings and 'bad-bud' into the fire, chief it indian style :ganjamon:


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## Seamaiden (Oct 23, 2008)

I love the tube of toothpaste for sizing.


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## psilocybin52 (Oct 25, 2008)

if I was a worm, I'd be a bud worm


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## livininbatcountry (Oct 28, 2008)

are they tiny green ones?


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## deesbarrett (Oct 28, 2008)

livininbatcountry said:


> are they tiny green ones?


yes...tiny green ones...they are actually Caterpillars.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 28, 2008)

Well, any way you slice it (EW!) Caterpillars are not on your plant to party,... no!!

They are there to eat their way to the next stage of life, moth or butterfly. I simply move mine to other green plants nearby. This works just fine. 

Moths and butterflies lay eggs at a specific time of the year depending on where you are. learn when they are searching for likely spots to deposit their eggs and cover your plants with fine screen or mosquito netting. A simple hoop net will do. In a few weeks, the chance of infestation will lower dramatically.


Hope this helps.


out.


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## Seamaiden (Oct 29, 2008)

Also, if your county has a vector control or agriculture department, you can use them for excellent information.

Oops! Ok, in some counties vector control is limited to bugs like mosquitoes and Africanized bees.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 29, 2008)

I put a big cutout of Al Gore next to my plants. Scares the heck out of everything!!


out.


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## Seamaiden (Oct 29, 2008)

Inventor of the interwebs!


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## CrackerJax (Oct 29, 2008)

He's one of the VERY few ppl that do not need a mask come Halloween. 


out.


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## PKDoom (Oct 29, 2008)

I did not know these worms even existed until I found some on my buds during the drying process. I don't know how I missed them while I was manicuring but I did. I was wondering if the buds were still salvageable. They look healthy and so far none are rotting of have mold. I only have one plant and it would be unfortunate if I had to toss it. My questions are: Are there any health risks of smoking these buds if I remove all of the worms? Will the buds still retain their potency or will the worms affect it? I have found about 10 so far and I check every few hours for more in case I missed any. I haven't seen any of the eggs or cocoons described in previous posts. Thanks in advance for any advice (this is my first harvest by the way).


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## CrackerJax (Oct 29, 2008)

Nah, u'll be just fine. They hide inside the buds for protection from any number of predators. Eat in peace so to speak. Other than enjoying the very same thing as you (weed) they are harmless.



out.


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## Seamaiden (Oct 30, 2008)

CrackerJax said:


> He's one of the VERY few ppl that do not need a mask come Halloween.
> 
> 
> out.


The last one I remember like that was Tricky Dick. 

Hey, I wonder if you could make a protenaceous cannabutter with the bud worms. I mean, they have to have been munching down trichomes along with bud matter, right? Cook 'em up!


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## CrackerJax (Oct 30, 2008)

Shake a little kief in the flour and quick skillet them!! Yumm!! A new Thanksgiving tradition is born...


out.


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## Seamaiden (Oct 30, 2008)

Oh damn.. that actually sounds kinda good. Make 'em crispy on the outside, gooey on the inside.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 30, 2008)

Here Aunt Martha, try these!! 


lol....


out.


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## Smiley D (Oct 30, 2008)

This is my first year dealing with these little rapscallions. A week or so ago I notice what looks like frost damage on the tip of a cola. As I go in to remove it I realize one of the little bastards had chewed through the stem, causing the dead cola tip. He wasn't far from the scene of the crime, tried to make a crawl for it, but I brought him to justice. 

Since then I have pulled out three more, finding them by looking for abnormal bud/leaf death. Lost about 5-6 dry grams removing the affected growth.

One of the earlier maturing strains I pulled out a week ago was riddled with mold, but no worms, just the shit strewn tunnels they left behind, coursing through the molded areas. Threw out about a dozen grams. Sadly, I think the perps might have escaped judgement in this case.

Anyways, just a heads up to those that have even less experience with the little bastids than me; If you notice strange localized bud death, start digging in.


I posted in this thread a few weeks ago, about the lack or absence of bud worms in my area. Seems I jinxed myself, though I think my bud worm issues are far less dire than in most parts of the world, from what I hear and read. Especially when I use no BT or sprays of any sort.

I would still like to know just what species of moth or butterfly these bud worms typically are, if anyone has any idea.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 30, 2008)

Smiley D said:


> This is my first year dealing with these little rapscallions. A week or so ago I notice what looks like frost damage on the tip of a cola. As I go in to remove it I realize one of the little bastards had chewed through the stem, causing the dead cola tip. He wasn't far from the scene of the crime, tried to make a crawl for it, but I brought him to justice.
> 
> Since then I have pulled out three more, finding them by looking for abnormal bud/leaf death. Lost about 5-6 dry grams removing the affected growth.
> 
> ...




i think in my case it's every species in my area. i have all different types of caterpillars.


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## Seamaiden (Oct 31, 2008)

'Tis the price those who live in prime agricultural/growing environments pay, it seems. Good thing we monkeys are clever.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 31, 2008)

Well I got to thinking about how we are all spread out all over the map on this forum and my caterpillar may not be your caterpillar. So, I peeped around the web and came up with a site to help us all. If anyone can find one better, please post it.

What's this caterpillar.. Identifying caterpillars made easy.

From the U.S. to the U.K. and back again .. 


out.


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## mrgreenbudz (Nov 7, 2008)

Probably the best thing you can do for next yr is grow in a greenhouse or build a few lightweight PVC huts and put them over your plants and cover with shadescreen and cover every night. I know it's a pain but it stops these F***'s from ruining lot's of buds.

I'm setting up 2 greenhouses for next season using the double tubular carports, wrap all sides permanently with shadescreen and use 6 ml *visqueen *on the top. Not only with this prevent moths from getting in and laying eggs but also protect from rains.

This method will allow plenty of ventilation and not allow excess heat build up and also help keep critters out also.

Catipillars not only eat buds but shit in the buds which are what turns to mold from moisture. This yr I grew 24 large babies *(northern Ca)* and spent nearly 25 + hours between spraying twice and picking off catipllars with magnafying glass and tweezers and let's not forget I lost over 1 1/2 lbs in damage and the time of cutting all the ruined parts off the buds at harvest. 

So I have no problem investing under $1000 on supplies to build these greenhouses.

Good luck I feel your pain
mrgreen


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## Seamaiden (Nov 7, 2008)

You can do the greenhouse with under $1K? My interest is piqued.


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## mrgreenbudz (Nov 7, 2008)

Hi,
Sure can....The fat round metal tube carports are around $350 ea for a double car structure, next throw in a $30 roll of 6 mil visqueen and around another $50 for the green shadescreen and a few dollars for misl parts and you are set. 

I bet if you look on craigslist.org you could find the carports used for about $100-$200 ea. 

Again it beats the alternitive of many wasted hours spraying and picking these bugs off your plants and still lose poundage. 

So even if all said and done it casts me $1500 it's worth it. You gotta think of them as tools and once you have them built you got them for yrs to come.

Check out Harbore Frieght online for carports

Good growing
Mrg


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## CrazyChester (Nov 11, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i think in my case it's every species in my area. i have all different types of caterpillars.


I'm sure that I had at least two types of Caters. An all green cabbage worm and a yellow and black critter as well.


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## Grapeman420 (Nov 13, 2008)

that same shit happpend to me.. looked just like that actually. i smoked it though and it was fine.


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## idol (Nov 24, 2008)

I have heard you could make a natural repellent by boiling 5 ore 6 smashed "chiles de arbol" (a very spacey chilly) in 1/2 liter of water and spraying it over your plants. all bugs hate chilly. I haven't tried it, bot the guy that told me about it swears it works great.
Good luck man, your plants look beautiful.


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## livininbatcountry (Nov 29, 2008)

That is fucking hysterical! Check out my post and photos, haze and purp kush... I just switched to Hortilux Super Blue Metal Halide and the results are off the scale... Triple the weight, in four weeks I have 5 ft height and 3 -4 ft around... Huge bushes!


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## delstele (Dec 2, 2008)

Wow never seen those before .. Little basters look like they could wipe out a plant quick..


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## JuicyCola420mon (Jan 1, 2009)

what is BT exactly


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## aknight3 (Jan 1, 2009)

bterz said:


> wtf I thought this was all stuff up north.
> 
> If your plants are in pots does this reduce the chance of getting them....
> 
> Damn im scared now!!


 


actually those type of worms dont prefer lower climates which is up north so there most likley to be found in warmer regions


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## fdd2blk (Jan 1, 2009)

JuicyCola420mon said:


> what is BT exactly


it is a caterpillar killer. it only kills caterpillars. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_thuringiensis


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## CrackerJax (Jan 1, 2009)

BT must be sprayed on early........ if you wait until you see the worms...BT won't help much...... o o o o out.


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## DankMan!!! (Jan 3, 2009)

I had these this year with my out door garden it killed like half of my buds they are really gross what is the best way to prevent them ? any one know ?


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## quercus017 (Jan 13, 2009)

http://www.nosprayzone.org/pesticides/quickBtfacts.html

I recommend Conserve SC used at a 6oz/100gal. dilution
the active bacteria in conserve is spinosad. It will remain active on plant tissue for about 2 weeks. The things that break it down are sunlight and water. Applying with a spreader sticker helps it last to full potential. NOTE: it is only effective against caterpillers when they are in the early instars. It will kill on contact and is used on and around ebible plants. I would hit your plants as soon as the buggers show up. There are usually two rounds in which the caterpillers get you. The first is a bud break (usually before most growers transplant outdoors) and the second 3-4 weeks later. In New England we are getting lit up by a new invasive species called the Winter Moth. They will start chomping on maple leaves before they pop out of the buds. In addition, we get the forest tent, eastern tent, gypsy moth, and sawflies. Two treatments, a month away from each other early in the season will take care of your problems. Too bad pesticides suck balls. For someone who is an organic nerd, I have way too much experience with this stuff...


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## greenthumb111 (Jan 15, 2009)

quercus017 said:


> http://www.nosprayzone.org/pesticides/quickBtfacts.html
> 
> I recommend Conserve SC used at a 6oz/100gal. dilution
> WOW! That stuff is expensive at $150/quart although you wont be using very much for each application.


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## Arizona Farmer (Jan 23, 2009)

I am in the Phoenix Arizona area and plan to plant a few plants in my back yard. How early in the season can I plant them outdoors in the ground? I have two outdoor plants just popping up now and was wandering if this is too early or? Thanks.


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## augiethedude (Jan 27, 2009)

those things are beautiful!!


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## fadetoblack72 (Jan 29, 2009)

Anybody get this problem in New England?


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## b0bdyl4n420 (Feb 1, 2009)

Dan Nabis said:


> I think I would dry those worms out and crush em up into a bowl and puff away.


ahaha for sure i got a half 8er if you wanna match up


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## moonshield (Feb 11, 2009)

hahaha its funny because I've smoked caterpillar before. My friends and I were being retards at the smoking corner at our school so we decided to burn and torture some falltime caterpillars cuz there were so many of em out. So we killed a couple and then we decided to make a smoke torture chamber suffocating device for shits and giggles lol I know were sick kids. After that hilarious shit we rolled a couple dead ones up into some of my homework and another kid there said hed pay whoever took a puff on the caterpillar joint 10 dollars so I said hell yea I'll be a freak if it will get me a 20 bag (I already had ten bucks and i can be quite the fiend as ive been getting high for so long) So it took a zippo to the end plus two bics to get the fucker lit lol dont ask me why it takes caterpillars so long to catch and burn. I took a disgusting puff of what tasted like a mix of burnt hair, paper, butane and some other unknown but equally disgusting taste that i believe was probably some part of the caterpillar. Now that im telling this story it all seems really gross and stupid but it was funny at the time, us kids do stupid shit


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## moonshield (Feb 11, 2009)

The funniest part is we all passed it around just to get the kid to cough up all his beans and then we tossed all that money down for a fat sack. HAHA gotta love it


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## donthatetaylor (Feb 17, 2009)

man i hope we dont have this problem in north carolina


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## donthatetaylor (Feb 17, 2009)

ive smoked a few roaches in my day but never a catapiller


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## Kuji (Feb 20, 2009)

tristis said:


> Praying Mantis solves this NP. They hatch in late July but mature and feed at the end of August when buds are blooming. We've had them established in our yard for 15 years plus. Very cool looking but also killers when it comes to plant parasites. You can buy them but it wouldn't help until next year. I have seen at least 5 sitting on my plants at any one time ready to eat anything that dares to touch my babies. You also don't have to flush after spraying lol.


Lol, you got an army of praying mantis's protecting your crop, that's just fuckin cool.

Sorry, I'm a bit of a nerd


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## fdd2blk (Feb 20, 2009)

mine all just bailed. i saw 2 or 3 throughout the whole summer. oh well, at least that's 2 or 3.


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## kiddcuruption (Feb 20, 2009)

wow!!! where can you get praying matis at? thats a great idea!


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## fdd2blk (Feb 20, 2009)

kiddcuruption said:


> wow!!! where can you get praying matis at? thats a great idea!


check out counter in the garden center at Home depot in the spring time. lady bugs as well.


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## JuicyCola420mon (Feb 22, 2009)

Im not really sure about what ur saying but if Canada wouldnt have to worry about it what are the chances of Maine not having to worry about it??


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## greenleafhigh (Feb 22, 2009)

I love Praying Matis ...They eat EVERYTHING


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## Hulk (Mar 7, 2009)

The meat bees are beneficial to your plant. Leave them be.


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## swiss210 (Mar 17, 2009)

i am looking for a very fruity strain sweet in smell and fruity in taste any ideas


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## Mr. Pif (Mar 17, 2009)

bugs eatting way at it?


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## BluntRoller420 (Mar 17, 2009)

How Oftan do i spray my plants with bt


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## moonshield (Mar 23, 2009)

Smoke crack!


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## moonshield (Mar 23, 2009)

burnin rocks in the evenin', smokin crystal on the sunrise oh ya I love drugs


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## Greeneyed (Apr 8, 2009)

those plants are real nice looking. Get those fuckers outta there.


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## BCbakedlife (Apr 8, 2009)

shittt i dont want these things in my buds when im growin this season. itl be my first time so if i see them ill probly freak hahah. nice lookin plants by the way!


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## [email protected] End (Apr 15, 2009)

Hello fdd2blk Im doin my first outdoor grow and my plant are 60 days into veg anything i can do to prevent the bullshit bugs that everyone has problems with. Also im growing in south east tx so i dont no if that will play a factor. THANKS HAPPY TOKIN?


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## Funfurrlander (Apr 15, 2009)

What is it you are spraying plants with "BT" what is that?


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## Cannabis Cutie (Apr 16, 2009)

If you move your potss twice a day it reduces the risk tremindously. I have done this scence the first spider mite infestation and the only bug iveseen onthem since then are butterflys an bees. (i flower half my plants in the spring for weed soon an keep them in a cabnient covered up w/ a blaket at night and movem in the sun after my early morn inspection


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## kremnon (Apr 24, 2009)

forget all that sprayin and stuff, the easyiest way to prtect ur girls is to put a mosquito net over them and u wont have any worms, they are the larva from moths and butterflies hatching on ur ladies


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## burnaby (Apr 29, 2009)

To me ur strain with the pink hairs looks like either spring of 76 or sweet swiss. I would love to get my hands on a couple of those seeds.


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## kata (May 1, 2009)

eww gross lol... must suck... i dont grow but once a friend shipped stuff to me and i found a roach or some sort in a zip.. i was appalled


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## thchero (May 4, 2009)

awsome threads thanks to all that added info


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## tad (May 20, 2009)

You guys need to buy some Chickens....and let them keep your girls clean....


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## grow space (May 23, 2009)

super nice crop dude
keep up the good work....


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## OntarioGro (May 26, 2009)

CrazyChester said:


> I went out this morning and after 3 doses of BT I still had worms. So I decided to start taking the plant down. As I started manicuring the buds I learned a little about Bud Worms. They seem to hatch and grow from the inside of the bud and then eat and crap their way out. Sometimes they take a round about way out to the surface and sometime they come straight to the surface. I had one work its way half way up to the top of a nice cola.
> To me it stands to reason that the moth comes in and lays its eggs on the buds, then the plant grows the bud around the eggs, then after the bud has developed the worms hatch. This makes it real important that you start spraying early because its hard to get the BT deep enough into the bud to kill the worms when they first hatch. You can spray late and still kill the worms that are already on the surface and you should, but the damage has already been done once you see the worms on the surface.
> 
> Conclusion: Follow fdd's advice and start spraying early and spray often. I think that if you did this you could use lighter concentrations of BT.
> ...


Hey crazychester.. that looks identical to the plants i had.. its called ("Early Pearl" by Sensi Seeds).. they are 50%Indica 50%Sativa.. its a hybrid.. its sposto finish early, but it didnt seem too down here.. anyways, a piece of the main cola rotted so i had to cut her 2 weeks early.. i know how it is.. beleave it or not you lose quite abit... either way its fun.. lmao,, sometimes..... alrite laterr


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## HIGHFLY (Jun 6, 2009)

i got spiders and geckos that protects my girls but i did happen to find a worm in one plants new growth leaves sliced the lil baztards head off wit my finger nail


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## magicbeanz (Jun 7, 2009)

moth balls....... they are great deterent for most insects.


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## mikemoto67 (Jun 11, 2009)

potroast said:


> For budworms, you should spray your plants every 3 weeks with BT, a beneficial bacteria, throughout their veg state, and the first half of flowering. That will keep the worms from growing on your plants. And that way, you don't have to spray your ripening buds.
> 
> BT will affect the taste of your bud if used too late in the season. It's just fine to wash your plants before harvest. Even my indoor plants are sometimes taken outside on harvest day and sprayed down well with a fine spray, and then dried for a couple of hours and harvested.
> 
> HTH


forgive my ignorance, but does washing off the plants affect the trichomes?


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## DMC65 (Jun 12, 2009)

These "worms" are actually named budworms-what a coincidence. I grow in southern cali and the bastards are a pain in the ass. Spray with Safer brand caterpillar killer as much as 3 times a day. Its a bacteria (BT) that stops the larvae from eating within a few days and then they die. You'll see them shriveled up and turning black as they die. You will also need to inspect very carefully because they blend in well and pick them off with a sharp pair of tweasers. You can also look for the eggs and pick them off. They're little off white/cream colored round balls tht pop when you squeeze them between the tweezers. You will have to pry the buds open to find them all because they eat from the inside out. BT is harmfull only to the worms and dont harm any mammals but i would spray them off good with water before harvesting. Water wont affect the THC glands at all.


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## phil le b (Jun 12, 2009)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


well i heard tha using ladiebirds is good if u put hem on the plan they will eat all the bug and not do any think to the plant its worh a go and is free


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## willywill (Jun 24, 2009)

I had bought some organic bt how often do I spray. My plant is on its 2 week of flowering


KushKing949 said:


> why in the world would you do that?????? i would seriously like to see you do it. I think it would be funny. and a lil dee dee dee !


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## CrazyChester (Jun 25, 2009)

phil le b said:


> well i heard tha using ladiebirds is good if u put hem on the plan they will eat all the bug and not do any think to the plant its worh a go and is free


Ladiebirds? Like in Ladiebird Johnson? What's a ladiebird? 

Start early with the BT. Follow the directions on the bottle. Don't mix too strong and only spray as often as the directions say. Don't spray for the last two weeks before harvest unless you see worms on your buds. If the weather is warm and dry rinse your plants a couple of times a few days before harvest. Some growers don't like to do this because they are worried about mildew but if you spray in the morning on a warm dry day it shouldn't do any harm and it will remove some of the BT residue. How could it be any different than spraying BT mixed with water as far as the mildew is concerned.


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## carhopper6 (Jun 25, 2009)

think about it. the bud worms eat the bud. the bud contains thc. it only seems logical that smoking a couple bud worms would give you a head change. makes sense to me


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## Anonononymous (Jun 28, 2009)

Would a net used to keep butterflies off strawberries work if it was draped over the plant? the holes in the netting are about 1cmx1cm.


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## irish farmer (Jun 28, 2009)

Hi thare im new hear. Im a little woried about what im reading hear. I started my first outdoor grow this year is thare anything i can do to prevent bud worm. I dont hav it yet. My babys are in 10 litre pots in a cleared woods they look great so far. HELP


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## irish farmer (Jun 28, 2009)

What is BT. Pleas


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## trippinballs (Jul 1, 2009)

what does it mean if you have a plant that has leaves of 5 6 and 7 on it?


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## Grandma Gudenhi (Jul 3, 2009)

Budworms suck! I've had them the past three seasons. We put some nematodes in our soil this past fall. I hope it works.
We normally just pick them off daily. 
I don't like using any sprays, etc. When we hang the buds to dry, the worms leave. IMO, they do very little damage and I'd rather smoke a little worm poo then insecticide.


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## sutra (Jul 4, 2009)

Bacillus Thurengensis


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## zen10 (Jul 9, 2009)

i cant stand those things man, but from what i know of you should wash them and keep doin what your doing


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## chesirecat1701 (Jul 14, 2009)

carhopper6 said:


> think about it. the bud worms eat the bud. the bud contains thc. it only seems logical that smoking a couple bud worms would give you a head change. makes sense to me


that reminds me of the scene in Cheech and Chong's Next Movie where chong smashes the beetle he had in his roach bottle and smokes it


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## maxi (Jul 15, 2009)

u wudnt get this problem indoors...wud u?


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## ultimate procrastinator (Jul 15, 2009)

Thinking of buying BT spray my plants will start flowering in a months time; anyone else in the northeast usa that knows if budworms are a problem? I have never seen them before but this is my first outdoor.


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## HIGHFLY (Jul 15, 2009)

Found a baby one on my plants outdoors yesterday it was under a dead leave that fell on top of one of my heads chopped dat lil bitches head off with my fingernail


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## drogrower (Jul 19, 2009)

dude those are some serious plants...


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## canadianchronic (Jul 20, 2009)

what do these worms look like. im a first timer, and would like to keep an eye out for them. also is there any other problems i should be on the look out for? my plants are in some mountains in gatineau que.


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## fried at 420 (Jul 20, 2009)

your pistils are blood red? is that just the plant or a result of the worms?


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## Stolas (Jul 22, 2009)

srry if it has already been posted but how exactly do you prepare for these and does anyone know their exact name?


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## doublejj (Jul 31, 2009)

I have one of these hanging 'upwind' of my plants and it's working so far, no worm eggs. Knock, Knock!

Although it is inside a PVC hoop hut covered with shade cloth. (ala garden-of-weeden style)

If they get past the shade screen, this is waiting for them!

http://www.touchfreeconcepts.com/products/timemist-purge-insecticide-kit.php


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## KroniK. (Aug 2, 2009)

our plants are about three months old , or will be this week and they are sooo full and bigg... no bud worms yet so pray for our gurls...lol... this is our first grow so if you guys will take a look at some of the pix tht we have posted and tell us wht you think about them...


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## BuddhaBud (Aug 8, 2009)

I'm growing outdoor, and definitely dont wanna get those fuckers - yall said you have a good chance of gettin them if ur not prepared, what do I do to keep the little stoners off?


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## MartinezTree (Aug 8, 2009)

2 of my white widow plants go infected with worms and both the plants turned brown. The weed can be used for somethin like cookies or hash


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## jberry (Aug 10, 2009)

my plants were moved outside late, they are just forming small flowers and others are just showing hairs.
i'm already getting worms on the more developed buds. i believe that it is these white moths with a single dot on their wing laying the eggs.

anyhow, i will spray the BT but i was also concidering buying some sort of bug netting to cut and drape over each individual plant to prevent any more moths from landing and laying eggs...

Do you think this will work?
Is there any reason why i couldnt do this?

not sure where to buy the netting though?


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## Nemmies (Aug 11, 2009)

the worms would be full of thc


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## volcomrider157 (Aug 11, 2009)

I have these bud worms already and i dont even have buds lol, I have a feeling there is a lot of them too...sounds like BT is the best choice for getting rid of them...i cut a few out today and they are bright BRIGHT red....do they ever come out of the stalk...like at night or something?


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## Grandma Gudenhi (Aug 12, 2009)

Stolas said:


> srry if it has already been posted but how exactly do you prepare for these and does anyone know their exact name?


I've tried to research this online and it's not easy.
Here's what I've found: 
There's a caterpillar called a Hemp Borer (_Grapholita delineana) _that appears to be the culprit. They are also called hemp leaf rollers and hemp seed eaters. 
The damage they do mostly fits the description given but I haven't been able to catch a moth to compare it to pics, and I can't find a pic of the caterpillar.
There is also something called a budworm (Heliothis armigera and Heliothis viriplaca). The damage seems more exact but I can't find a picture of the moth or caterpillar.


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## jberry (Aug 12, 2009)

im telling you, the ones in my greater area are white with a single purple/brownish dot on their wing.


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## gsljacobb (Aug 12, 2009)

What is the best way to totally avoid the situation before it comes? Seems to be inevitable, little bastards! Please let me in on your secrets!


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## Grandma Gudenhi (Aug 12, 2009)

jberry said:


> im telling you, the ones in my greater area are white with a single purple/brownish dot on their wing.


 Do you know the name of them? Preferably the scientific name. I'd like to find a pic and read what there is to say about them.
I haven't seen any moths like those in my garden. Mine just look very small and light brownish, but I haven't been able to catch one and look closely.


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## Grandma Gudenhi (Aug 12, 2009)

I found a good life cycle pic of the African Bollworm aka Heliothis (Helicoverpa) armigera. It says they're in Africa but I also seen another web site that said they were a problem in the cotton in the US. 
Take a look and see if it's it. It's not the moth I thought it was, but then I think I've also seen these in my garden. It would explain why I have different looking caterpillars, because they are in different life stages. I thought so.
http://www.infonet-biovision.org/print/ct/76/pests


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## Grandma Gudenhi (Aug 12, 2009)

Here is the pic from the link http://www.infonet-biovision.org/print/ct/76/pests . It looks like most of the options are from the Helicoverpa (heliothis) genus. I figure find a pheromone trap for those kinds of moths and it should cover it all? I guess? The web site describes each individual phase.


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## jberry (Aug 12, 2009)

nope, i call them DEATH MOTHS lol. they land , lay eggs, and take off.
i only see them here and there... same lil suckers every year tho, and my dad gets the same ones 200 miles away from here 

next year im investing in a screen house, i think thats the true preventive measure.


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## liljaybahbi (Aug 12, 2009)

If you use garlic extract it will keep the bugs away and is organic


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## liljaybahbi (Aug 12, 2009)

Its also a good idea to use lady bugs or spiders to keep the bugs away


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## volcomrider157 (Aug 12, 2009)

I'm hearing about this stuff called "azamax" its suppose to killl anything IN OR ON your plants...


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## fried at 420 (Aug 12, 2009)

hmmmm
neem oil wont kill these fucks??


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## Grandma Gudenhi (Aug 13, 2009)

My problem is I don't like to put anything on my plants that may effect the final product. When I smoke bud grown by other people and it makes my tongue tingle. Even safer soap makes bud taste like crap. I guess I've been smoking my clean organic bud for so long that I've become super sensitive to anything funky in my bud. 
I'm thinking pheromone traps or netting. If I see alot of moth like things, maybe garlic spray.
I'm not even sure if it will be a big problem this season as we used nematodes in our soil so it should have killed them in the pupae stage, but my neighbors also grow and they did nothing to prevent the moths.
I also use beneficial bugs but what do you use for moths? We do have wasps but not alot. If we end up with alot of caterpillars, I think I'll get some preying mantis and try them.


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## rchambers (Aug 15, 2009)

how do i get rid of bud worms


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## keith83 (Aug 16, 2009)

Oh shit bud worms? Never thought of that. But hell i live in PA so what are the chances? What the hell is BT? This is my first year. So i am trying to learn as much as possible before i run into this problem.


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## volcomrider157 (Aug 16, 2009)

bud worms are eveywhere im pretty sure...I'm going to use this stuff called azamax its organic and used once every 10 days...three applications and all the bugs and eggs die inside and out....and doesnt affect the smoke at all...so i've been told. i'm going to get some very soon cuz i have a shit ton of bud worms that will be a problem soon if i dont stop them now.


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## MOBee (Aug 17, 2009)

there is good product that alot of store sell to kill those and avoid em to repopulate. Dr doom and stuff like that. look for it.


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## Grandma Gudenhi (Aug 17, 2009)

I still haven't seen any budworms (caterpillars) yet this season. I did have budworms the past three seasons so I used some nematodes this past fall. Maybe it's working? There was quite a few pupae in the soil last year and practically none this year. 
My neighbor said he's seen a few worms on his buds. I've seen a few moths. Probably from his yard. I got some lacewing eggs today. Apparently the larvae will eat anything small and soft. I have some aphids in one of my plants so they should take care of them and any caterpillar eggs from the neighbors moths.


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## Gardener 09 (Aug 17, 2009)

I dont have problems with it either, but if i did i would just put a drop of milk,a drop of dishsoap, and a drop of hotsause in a measuerd amount of water, then just spray on the leavs. Works great and its not harmful!


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## MartinezTree (Aug 17, 2009)

Better get rid of them na me and my friends lost 2 huge white wido plants because of the worms then they got a disease and turned brown. It was sad lol.


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## bongofblitzing (Aug 18, 2009)

i can really sympathize with the feeling of resentment towards these little bastards. i was in my garden not 24 hours ago. and when i came out today one of my plants had several chomped on leaves and the tippy top of the cola was eaten on.. from only 1 little worm!!!!


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## Bluemax (Aug 19, 2009)

dude the first post with the pics,those last three plants are some of the biggest ive ever seen!!!!!!the 2 pics before last look killer,the main cola must have at least a pound on it,goddamn!


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## gshof945 (Aug 19, 2009)

I bought a bottle of bt, and it says to apply with a high pressure hose, would it work with a spray bottle cuz that is about my only option?


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## doublejj (Aug 20, 2009)

Here is my answer to the bud worm problem. For around $300 you can put one of these over them.

10'x20' Costco carport awning ala FDD covered in plastic and 2 rolls of shade cloth. I've seen 1 moth inside (& I think it flew in while I had the doors tyed back, watering.) No spray on the plants!


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## genfranco (Aug 20, 2009)

keith83 said:


> Oh shit bud worms? Never thought of that. But hell i live in PA so what are the chances? What the hell is BT? This is my first year. So i am trying to learn as much as possible before i run into this problem.


Do you see any butterflies or moths outside? ... If so then youll get the caterpillars man... Need to spray using that bt caterpillar killer...safer brand... and heres a tip. the butterflies lay the eggs on the tops of the buds a day after they start to grow trichs everywhere.. (which is actually pretty early in the growth)... they lay 1 or 2 eggs on the tops and they stick to the trichs... look for them and pull them out if you can... I do a cleaning in the mornings and usaully cant find none by day 3... Not to say i dont stop getting wroms... but im sure pulling those out saved some buds....

Good luck!


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## Grandma Gudenhi (Aug 21, 2009)

I still haven't seen any budworms and only one moth (came from the neighbor's garden). I think my nematodes and lacewings may actually do the job. I'm still keeping a daily watch just incase.
FUNNY STORY: My niece is such a noob. lol (so cute). She has her first outdoor grow this season. As I was reading this thread just now, she called me with a few grow questions. Of course I had to let her know about budworms. I asked if she had any budworms yet. She answered, "no, should I go get some?" lmao


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## genfranco (Aug 21, 2009)

Grandma Gudenhi said:


> I still haven't seen any budworms and only one moth (came from the neighbor's garden). I think my nematodes and lacewings may actually do the job. I'm still keeping a daily watch just incase.
> FUNNY STORY: My niece is such a noob. lol (so cute). She has her first outdoor grow this season. As I was reading this thread just now, she called me with a few grow questions. Of course I had to let her know about budworms. I asked if she had any budworms yet. She answered, "no, should I go get some?" lmao


hehehe ... tell her to get you a cable stretcher while she goes to the store....


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## graiggrady (Aug 23, 2009)

Good morning 
Was looking to put up something smaller and then I saw your pics. I notice alot of growth in those big pots but how is the light per say. Do they get enough as they should or did you bring them out from the indoors. Wow a car port my nieghbor down the street has one for his boat but it has no light, its the white kind of structure but no layer on top to let in light. Did you say costco is the place you found it. Thats next springs project, hell i might go buy if now and be ready. I see they are doing just fine please fill me in if you can find the time to let me know how your crop turns out. Oh yeah do you keep your pot off the ground an inch or so for air flow. I have 7 total 3 Rhinos and I tried the 3 Fem. lowlife white russians just for kicks every one is is different. I want to take pics but i cant post pics because of my newbie status to this site. Let me know. Thanks GRAIGGRADY THE SUPER FARMER!


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## sixheads (Aug 25, 2009)

I have smoked the worms . there was no negative effect. 


Worm smoker


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## BluntMan666 (Aug 25, 2009)

The worms sound like a annoyance...do they come around everywhere or just in certain places?


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## chiefbootknocker (Aug 26, 2009)

Does anyone have any knowledge of Safer Brand Insecticide? That stuff is sold more commonly in my area, and they claim you can use it up to the day of harvest with "fruit".

I think I burned a worm type creature this morning on one of my tops so I don't want to fuck around.


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## Grandma Gudenhi (Aug 26, 2009)

chiefbootknocker said:


> Does anyone have any knowledge of Safer Brand Insecticide? That stuff is sold more commonly in my area, and they claim you can use it up to the day of harvest with "fruit".
> 
> I think I burned a worm type creature this morning on one of my tops so I don't want to fuck around.


I think when they say it can be used up until harvest, they're expecting you to wash the fruits before eating.
If it's that close to harvest, IMO your only option is to check the plants daily and pick the caterpillars (budworms) off and remove any damage to the bud.


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## northeastern lights (Aug 26, 2009)

genfranco said:


> hehehe ... tell her to get you a cable stretcher while she goes to the store....


 

We sent a kid from work with a list of stuff to Home depot. The one thing he said he couldn't find was the powdered water. Hmmm just add water?


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## firelane (Aug 26, 2009)

Northeastern lights, are these the same worms I have, or is the stalk borer different


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## northeastern lights (Aug 26, 2009)

firelane said:


> Northeastern lights, are these the same worms I have, or is the stalk borer different


 

Here are some pics from last year.https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/108627-officially-war.html



I don't remember you posting pics of the worm or hole?


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## firelane (Aug 26, 2009)

northeastern lights said:


> Here are some pics from last year.https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/108627-officially-war.html
> 
> 
> 
> I don't remember you posting pics of the worm or hole?


I don't have a pic of the hole, and I haven't seen the worm yet. The hole is almost perfectly round and then 8 inches up the is another hole that is not a perfect circle. Another 8in above that is the bulge


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## northeastern lights (Aug 26, 2009)

See if you can squeeze the buldge area to get it to come out.


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## doublejj (Aug 26, 2009)

graiggrady said:


> Good morning
> Was looking to put up something smaller and then I saw your pics. I notice alot of growth in those big pots but how is the light per say. Do they get enough as they should or did you bring them out from the indoors. Wow a car port my nieghbor down the street has one for his boat but it has no light, its the white kind of structure but no layer on top to let in light. Did you say costco is the place you found it. Thats next springs project, hell i might go buy if now and be ready. I see they are doing just fine please fill me in if you can find the time to let me know how your crop turns out. Oh yeah do you keep your pot off the ground an inch or so for air flow. I have 7 total 3 Rhinos and I tried the 3 Fem. lowlife white russians just for kicks every one is is different. I want to take pics but i cant post pics because of my newbie status to this site. Let me know. Thanks GRAIGGRADY THE SUPER FARMER!


Here are more details on the greenhouse:
https://www.rollitup.org/outdoor-growing/230510-doublejjs-out-grow.html


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## chiefbootknocker (Aug 28, 2009)

Grandma Gudenhi said:


> I think when they say it can be used up until harvest, they're expecting you to wash the fruits before eating.
> If it's that close to harvest, IMO your only option is to check the plants daily and pick the caterpillars (budworms) off and remove any damage to the bud.


 
I'm not really close to harvest. I've still got at least 4 weeks to go yet. Even with that said when you say wash are you suggesting that the chemical remains are stong enough that you would need soap and water to remove the danger? 

The reason I say that is because it is an outdoor grow and I was thinking of maybe hitting it a couple times then at the end of flowering just douche the whole garden down while I flush......not a good idea?


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## northeastern lights (Aug 28, 2009)

chiefbootknocker said:


> I'm not really close to harvest. I've still got at least 4 weeks to go yet. Even with that said when you say wash are you suggesting that the chemical remains are stong enough that you would need soap and water to remove the danger?
> 
> The reason I say that is because it is an outdoor grow and I was thinking of maybe hitting it a couple times then at the end of flowering just douche the whole garden down while I flush......not a good idea?


 

When stated that the buds could be washed it's not with soap and water. You can take a bucket of water and dunk and swirl them around. I am using BT and will continue it for a few more weeks. 



I will just let the rain do mine. You could use a sprayer if need be.


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## Jonathan61009 (Aug 28, 2009)

yeah um what is bt and where would i be able to get it...do i need it now...i just started to grow some plants, they're only about a week old and looking good already. I was wondering if i have to worry bud worms?


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## northeastern lights (Aug 28, 2009)

Jonathan61009 said:


> yeah um what is bt and where would i be able to get it...do i need it now...i just started to grow some plants, they're only about a week old and looking good already. I was wondering if i have to worry bud worms?


 
In my neck of the woods it's a bit to late to start anything outside. BT is the active ingredient in the SAFER brand Caterpillar Killer. I have seen similar stuff at home depot.

You should really treat at the beginning of flowering to prevent or diminish bud worms. 


Moths lay eggs on your bud and the caterpillars that hatch eats and shit all over. The shit causes the bud to rot.



http://www.saferbrand.com/store/garden-care/5160


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## Jonathan61009 (Aug 29, 2009)

Awesome. Thank you. Well I live in Florida so it is pretty warm most of the time. Even "Winter" Time. So i should spray in the beginning of flowering, okay Thanks!!


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## northeastern lights (Aug 29, 2009)

Jonathan61009 said:


> Awesome. Thank you. Well I live in Florida so it is pretty warm most of the time. Even "Winter" Time. So i should spray in the beginning of flowering, okay Thanks!!


 

It's better to start before there is a problem. Try to stay one step ahead of those bastard bugs.


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## 5150 (Aug 29, 2009)

How often do you spray with BT for prevention only?


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## northeastern lights (Aug 29, 2009)

once a week, now I'm doing it twice a week.


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## greenentrepreneurmanure (Aug 31, 2009)

Hey There.....
Iam a newbie to this. and a first time grower, Iam having the same exact problem with these worms. sorry for the dumb question, but what is "BT" is this what you are using to get rid of worms/catipillars? or can you tell me what to use to get rid of these damm things. I notice all my flowers that have the woms are orange and the other newer flowers with out them are still flowering white hairs? any help would much appreciated. by the way its outdoor grow.

Thanks .... This place is awesome!

"Greenentrepreneurmanure"


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## northeastern lights (Aug 31, 2009)

greenentrepreneurmanure said:


> Hey There.....
> Iam a newbie to this. and a first time grower, Iam having the same exact problem with these worms. sorry for the dumb question, but what is "BT" is this what you are using to get rid of worms/catipillars? or can you tell me what to use to get rid of these damm things. I notice all my flowers that have the woms are orange and the other newer flowers with out them are still flowering white hairs? any help would much appreciated. by the way its outdoor grow.
> 
> Thanks .... This place is awesome!
> ...


 
Go back a few posts and read. You'll find your answers


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## thefranchize08 (Aug 31, 2009)

where can you find BT and how late is too late to put it on?


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## northeastern lights (Aug 31, 2009)

thefranchize08 said:


> where can you find BT and how late is too late to put it on?


 
I get mine at the local shop. Saw Home Depot had it but it isn't from Safer.


Safer Brand Caterpillar killer, google it


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## growitEZ (Sep 1, 2009)

hey do you get these in socal???


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## northeastern lights (Sep 1, 2009)

growitEZ said:


> hey do you get these in socal???


 

Moths lay eggs on your buds.


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## greenentrepreneurmanure (Sep 3, 2009)

Thanks Northeastern lights!
Got it.... seems to be working. I noticed all the hairs even the white ones turned orange is that normal? Iam trying to determind when to pull /harvest. 
some of the trichomes under the leaves on the big flowers are lightish brown clear- while some of the other flowers are still clear- the thing is I didnt log or know when i started this plant, it was kinda of an experiment that went good. do all the flowers need to be amber brown trichomes or do you just harvest the ones that look ready and let the other flowers grow? 



any information you can give would be much appreciated.

Thanks.
greenentrepreneurmanure


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## northeastern lights (Sep 3, 2009)

greenentrepreneurmanure said:


> Thanks Northeastern lights!
> Got it.... seems to be working. I noticed all the hairs even the white ones turned orange is that normal? Iam trying to determind when to pull /harvest.
> some of the trichomes under the leaves on the big flowers are lightish brown clear- while some of the other flowers are still clear- the thing is I didnt log or know when i started this plant, it was kinda of an experiment that went good. do all the flowers need to be amber brown trichomes or do you just harvest the ones that look ready and let the other flowers grow?
> 
> ...


 

Well a pic would help. It's pretty early to harvet just yet. Not saying it isn't but it most likely isn't just yet.


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## Stealthfader (Sep 4, 2009)

I don't have any signs of caterpillars on the reef right now, but my brussel sprouts have been getting chowed by caterpillars for a couple weeks now.

I have been hand picking the bastards in my brussel sprouts but they already have done a ton of damage.

I'm about 2-3 weeks into flower and I would like to start some kind of preventative maintenance to avoid these things boring through my buds later.

I picked up some "All SeasonsHorticultural Spray Oil", it's supposed to be organic and I would prefer to stay organic if I can.

I'm wondering if any of the experts on this forum have any experience, good or bad, with this product. 

Thanks


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## niggz (Sep 6, 2009)

doez it have to be 100 % neem oil or doez it have to be at least 70% to work


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## radric davis (Sep 6, 2009)

Ugh I got these things. I've been using azamax but I guess not a good enough concentration. So I'm gonna increase my use and keep a eye on it. I think they are only affecting one or two of my plants but damn!!! I hate to see them destroy my perfectly good plants. Already claimed most of a auto ak plant. I may have to harvest early if I can't get this shit under control. They seemed to come from no where. My plants were fine the other day, now the top cola was rotting on a auto ak and a caterpillar was munching on the outside so I kno it was the culprit.


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## HimilayaGold (Sep 10, 2009)

has anyone try ed vegg'n for over a year?


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## blazincajuns420 (Sep 11, 2009)

lol yea i would have to see that as well. i could only imagine the taste of that.


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## Grandma Gudenhi (Sep 13, 2009)

NEMATODES!!!!!!! 
I've had budworm problems for the past few seasons. We put nematodes in our garden this past fall. I've still not seen even one caterpillar (budworm). My neighbor still has budworms this season but we don't.
However, I have seen some little brown moths, I'm sure from the neighbor's yard, so we still check daily.
We are harvesting our Huckleberry right now........with no budworms.
Nematodes must be introduced to you garden in the fall. Budworms pupate in the soil during that time.


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## DontDoDrugs (Sep 14, 2009)

i got some of these.. one of my white rhinos' buds were falling off so i looked closer and i see a nasty green caterpillar in the bud! it really scared me cus it was looking right at me & i was high as hell.. 

so my Q is.. should i seperate this plant to prevent them from spreading to my other plants or will this not make a difference? do they turn into some type of moth or butterfly? or do they just die as caterpillars. thanks.


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## Grandma Gudenhi (Sep 14, 2009)

DontDoDrugs said:


> .........so my Q is.. should i seperate this plant to prevent them from spreading to my other plants or will this not make a difference? do they turn into some type of moth or butterfly? or do they just die as caterpillars. thanks.


I don't think the caters will travel from one plant to the other unless their touching. 
At this point you will need to check your plants daily. The caterpillars can be small and brownish grey, up to the big green ones. Look for damage then follow it to the worm, which is most likely buried in your bud. When you hang your buds to dry, the worms will leave. 
Some people use BT but I don't know if it's too late. Read through the threads. There's lots of info on BT use.
You must have the moths in your yard. Basically, they go from caterpiller, to pupae/cacoon (in the soil), to moth that lays eggs on your plant. That's why we used nematodes in the fall. So they would eat the pupae and therefore no moths to lay eggs. We tilled them into our garden. It seems like it worked because we have had no caterpillars, but yet our neighbor has many.


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## DontDoDrugs (Sep 14, 2009)

fuuuck.. i hope my other plants dont get these.. and on top of this.. it rained last night and earlier this morning.. so many problems these past few days! i have a plant maybe 2-3 weeks away from harvest i hope this one comes out good before things get worse.


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## whoreable (Sep 14, 2009)

This is the main reason i switched from flowering outdoors. Because, besides mites, I never had problems. Then I was introduced to the garden-moth. I actually found two caterpillars on my vegging plants, Inside.

Well, it is Moth-Season.


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## Leavis (Sep 14, 2009)

nice plants there mate ,wish i cud grow em out door lyk that in england


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## Wheeler man (Sep 16, 2009)

I ran into those little bastards last season
.I could not keep up wit h them.My whole harvest was shit.I dried it all out,and the worms would come out of the buds after they were in the jars.I was picking worms out of jars for days.Smoke was harsh,and nasty.But it packed a good buzz......WORST HARVEST EVER!!!


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## DontDoDrugs (Sep 16, 2009)

i fuckin hate these bitches!


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## genfranco (Sep 16, 2009)

Hate the worm farmin eh?... Me too... i cannot beleave they dont make some type of butterfly moth repellent... like i said... a screen house is my next years project for sure... But then i said this last year too...LOL


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## genfranco (Sep 16, 2009)

My sacrificial Pole...


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## DRO KING (Sep 17, 2009)

When is og kush done outside, harvest time


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## siek13 (Sep 17, 2009)

i took all them off anf today i keep finding more and more each day..
perty soon my plant is a gonner wtf can i do i spent to much time on these plantts and i dont wanna harvest lyet but itss about 6 weeks intobudding and fuck what do i dod?????\WHO EVERS TREAD THIS IS REPLY TO ME IN A MESSAGE PLASE THANKS!!!!!


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## Nostradamus (Sep 18, 2009)

siek13 said:


> i took all them off anf today i keep finding more and more each day..
> perty soon my plant is a gonner wtf can i do i spent to much time on these plantts and i dont wanna harvest lyet but itss about 6 weeks intobudding and fuck what do i dod?????\WHO EVERS TREAD THIS IS REPLY TO ME IN A MESSAGE PLASE THANKS!!!!!


my plan since i did not use BT early enough is to spend a little bit of time each day picking off the cats. You can see which buds they are in because the hairs in that are get prematurely red. I will do this for 2 more weeks and try to make it to October 1st. My goal was OCtober 20th but these caterpillars are eating the buds too quickly. I've researched this topic for hours in the past few days and i can tell you there is not a solid solution. chop now and get premature buds or wait and get moldy, poopy, half eaten ripe buds. Can't win eirther way.


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## bbgood (Sep 20, 2009)

Hey, what about the worms,,,I hear dried worms covered in choco can be a real treat...lol


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## lanebaby67 (Sep 20, 2009)

I'm not sure what kinda bug I have, its small, white, in the soil and is eating at the bottom of the stalk of my mom. It also has antenna's


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## ReggaeGanja (Sep 20, 2009)

thats y the camera was invented..


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## bbgood (Sep 20, 2009)

white flies from down under...lol


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## poplars (Sep 22, 2009)

I managed to dodge them this year with my plants. I would just go out there a lot, and any moths I saw land I'd flick them, they'd get nocked out and I could then kill them haha.

I only see like 1-3 of those moths every 4-7 days. but they always happen to show up when I'm around


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## gonefishing (Sep 28, 2009)

so my 2 plants got moths in the last couple weeks. they are outside, as well as a dozen of other vegitating plants. are the moths more likely to inhabit the mj plants, or should i been wary of them getting into the other non mj plants?


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## yardsale (Oct 3, 2009)

can you sprinkle sulphor on your plants and will it affect the taste


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## tokeCALIkush (Oct 3, 2009)

yardsale said:


> can you sprinkle sulphor on your plants and will it affect the taste


I just started seeing bud worms on my plants this week when I cut down a sample bud.What are the chances that there is a bunch of bugs in my plants if one of them had them, they are all potted all all skunk weed, the plant that I found them in is close to harvest...

what can I do ti get them fuckers outt my weed??????

I saw the thread has 29 pages, I dont have that much time, can you guys help I will check on this tommorow THANKS


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## tokeCALIkush (Oct 4, 2009)

tokecalikush said:


> i just started seeing bud worms on my plants this week when i cut down a sample bud.what are the chances that there is a bunch of bugs in my plants if one of them had them, they are all potted all all skunk weed, the plant that i found them in is close to harvest...
> 
> What can i do ti get them fuckers outt my weed??????
> 
> I saw the thread has 29 pages, i dont have that much time, can you guys help i will check on this tommorow thanks


bump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## poplars (Oct 5, 2009)

tokeCALIkush said:


> I just started seeing bud worms on my plants this week when I cut down a sample bud.What are the chances that there is a bunch of bugs in my plants if one of them had them, they are all potted all all skunk weed, the plant that I found them in is close to harvest...
> 
> what can I do ti get them fuckers outt my weed??????
> 
> I saw the thread has 29 pages, I dont have that much time, can you guys help I will check on this tommorow THANKS


you're pretty much doomed if they spread too much, sorry .. . .


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## tomato worm (Oct 7, 2009)

I HAVE THE FUCKERS.

Heres my thread of me finding some a while ago (really late too.. they were big fat green fuckers)
https://www.rollitup.org/outdoor-growing/244264-catapilliers-arrgg-w-pics-some.html

Still now, into October I go out daily and find them. Usually they are less than 1cm and a light brown.

I do the same as others.. find the damage, follow it, you'll likely find the worm.

I HATE THEM!!!!! I FIND MORE EVERYDAY!!! often they go right to the center and chew at the stock of the head of the bud, and the whole fucking thing dies.

Its come to the point that when I smell my plants, I think of the worms, just like how when I smell tomato plants, I think of tomato worms. (the whole brain association thing) 

So now everytime I smell weed growing I think of worms and get grossed out. I have bad dreams about them.

Its so sad, but true. 

God I hate them.

To all those looking for a solution...

Waste tons of man hours every day picking them out to reduce damage. Thats all you can do.

They really really do suck ass!!!!


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## Sakca (Oct 7, 2009)

You know THIS is one of the biggest issues in growing outdoors, I really consider grabbing a tent or some kinda bug spray to keep handy if you think you can't reach the worms. Otherwise just pluck em and chuck em away, that saved my other plants. The funny thing is that I was getting pissed after a week of dealing with them so the last biggest one I found, I had splattered all over the rim of the barrel my plant was being grown in, it was cracking me up. Btw the species I had on my buds were green. Nothing else was different about it's pattern in the design.


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## tomato worm (Oct 7, 2009)

Sakca said:


> You know THIS is one of the biggest issues in growing outdoors, I really consider grabbing a tent or some kinda bug spray to keep handy if you think you can't reach the worms. Otherwise just pluck em and chuck em away, that saved my other plants. The funny thing is that I was getting pissed after a week of dealing with them so the last biggest one I found, I had splattered all over the rim of the barrel my plant was being grown in, it was cracking me up. Btw the species I had on my buds were green. Nothing else was different about it's pattern in the design.


Most of the time they are green, it depends on what they eat. If they are eating alot of material with chlorophyll they will be bright green.

Caterpillars in labs are often fed wheat-germ, and they are not green.

Whatever color they are, I really really hate them. The only time its safe to spray is durring vegging and early flower, but the fuckers dont show up until late flower... its like they wait on purpose to destroy your hard work juuuust before its ready.


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## grnhrvstr (Oct 8, 2009)

My first outdoor I aslo found out the hard way about these dam things.All mine have them now and by by going through them all day/everyday i can tell my buds no longer smell as nice and have less trics from me digging through them.grrr!
So I started harvesting and so far have made some ok BHO with it thinking this method will filter out the wormpoo and I think it did as I found lots of wormpoo in the leftovers so the butane does not disolve it like the trics.idk.
I have a set of 5 bubblebags and wondered if anyone has ever tried them with wormpoo buds?Does the wormpoo get filtered by one of the the bags?I woulnt mind at least one bag of hash without poo but would hate it in all of them just to trash afterwards.Thanks for any ideas!


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## genfranco (Oct 8, 2009)

grnhrvstr said:


> My first outdoor I aslo found out the hard way about these dam things.All mine have them now and by by going through them all day/everyday i can tell my buds no longer smell as nice and have less trics from me digging through them.grrr!
> So I started harvesting and so far have made some ok BHO with it thinking this method will filter out the wormpoo and I think it did as I found lots of wormpoo in the leftovers so the butane does not disolve it like the trics.idk.
> I have a set of 5 bubblebags and wondered if anyone has ever tried them with wormpoo buds?Does the wormpoo get filtered by one of the the bags?I woulnt mind at least one bag of hash without poo but would hate it in all of them just to trash afterwards.Thanks for any ideas!



I didnt see any poo in my batches... And im positive that there were infected buds in there


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## grnhrvstr (Oct 8, 2009)

genfranco said:


> I didnt see any poo in my batches... And im positive that there were infected buds in there


Great to hear and thanks for looking out brotha!May all your grows from now on be poop free!!!


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## cam128 (Oct 18, 2009)

If I were you and I was using a BT, I'd be sure to not only spray the crop before harvest but also water cure the buds. Once you have let them dry out off the plant for about a week you should put them in jars then add fresh water and let them sit for a few minutes in the water. Then hang them back up and when they get crisp again repeat the process. After this you can throw em in the curing jars opening them 3 times a day taking them out gently, then putting them back in, and after a few days youll have dank, water cured chemical free smoke.


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## 2much (Oct 21, 2009)

a white sheet on a clothes line with a flood light behind it will attract moths, kill them as they land on the lit sheet, repeat the process about once a week during grow season and you will have far less problems with worms


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## SmOkEyMc.PoT (Oct 24, 2009)

KushKing949 said:


> if your outdoors u have a good chance of getting them unless u were prepared i wasnt so i got them i have to search my buds everyday and i find tons its gross


 i have 12 plants under sb420 and ill tell you these fucking bugs have gone and fucked up my erbs


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## greenthumz (Oct 26, 2009)

Holy crap... bud worms??? FOR REAL??? How come I've never heard of those before?

Will praying mantises eat the bugs? I've never grown outdoors before but I was thinking about doing it this year... Now I'm not too sure. I have a praying mantis egg case though, maybe I'll hatch them when "bud worm" season starts... see if maybe my praying mantises will have a little feast and save my buds.

Or maybe I'll try planting marigolds around my weed. I've heard marigolds repel insects... but I can't do both cuz it will repel my praying mantises too.
any suggestions?


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## hazex (Nov 1, 2009)

No buddy dont trash it make hash from it bubble hash or drysift it if it has valuable seeds


----------



## BodyHigh (Nov 4, 2009)

I have very nice outdoor grown Master Kush but it seems that I have to wait something around 2-3 weeks to start harvesting. The weather is rainy and it has been raining for almost 48 hours. Should I be worried about the potency of the end product ? I do know that I should only start cutting the branches when they are fully dried.


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## constructionpig (Nov 5, 2009)

Luckily I only had about 6 or 7 this year.
I feel lucky.


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## poplars (Nov 9, 2009)

I dodged them completely this year.

next year I'm netting my entire outdoor garden.


no moths = no worms.


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## camelialong (Nov 17, 2009)

Bananas. Containing three natural sugars - sucrose, fructose and glucose combined with fiber,
a banana gives an instant, sustained and substantial boost of energy.
Research has proven that just two bananas provide enough energy for a strenuous 90-minute workout.
No wonder the banana is the number one fruit with the world's leading athletes.
But energy isn't the only way a banana can help us keep fit. 
It can also help overcome or prevent a substantial number of illnesses and conditions, 
making it a must to add to our daily diet.
CHEERS ^_^


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## 2much (Nov 17, 2009)

put up a white sheet on a clothesline and put a strong lamp or floodlight behind it. light up the sheet to attract the moths. pull a lawn shair up with your favorite shotgun, or a can of raid,flyswatter, get creative
some bud , and get some revenge. doing this a few times a year has greatly reduces bud worm infestations.......happy hunting


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## MediMaryUser (Nov 17, 2009)

2much said:


> put up a white sheet on a clothesline and put a strong lamp or floodlight behind it. light up the sheet to attract the moths. pull a lawn shair up with your favorite shotgun, or a can of raid,flyswatter, get creative
> some bud , and get some revenge. doing this a few times a year has greatly reduces bud worm infestations.......happy hunting







hahahahah pull up with your favorite shotgun lol ahahha i wanna try this but i live in town haha


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## dragonhide (Nov 29, 2009)

what strains would those beautys be?


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## veggiegardener (Dec 1, 2009)

I haven't read every post, but I'll mention this, anyway. At least in my area, the source of bud worms is the Fiery Skipper butterfly. In the summer, they are all over my garden, and, if you can get a butterfly and a worm, you'll see the resemblance between them. I spray liquid Bt all summer. 

Saw two worms, this year. One was already dead. The other was very small. Bt bacteria are harmless to mammals(us). They are often suspended in liquid maple sugar, so wisdom dictates washing the plant a few days after each application. Especially during late flowering when that sugar can cause mold, without the worm's help.

Pictured below is the last plant in this year's grow. The calyxes are black after curing, with a nice layer of trichs, and almost no leaf. Awesome!(Yes, I see butterflies in my greenhouses, too.)


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## chuajhea (Dec 1, 2009)

I accept with information:For budworms, you should spray your plants every 3 weeks with BT, a beneficial bacteria, throughout their veg state, and the first half of flowering. That will keep the worms from growing on your plants. And that way, you don't have to spray your ripening buds.


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## veggiegardener (Dec 3, 2009)

chuajhea said:


> I accept with information:For budworms, you should spray your plants every 3 weeks with BT, a beneficial bacteria, throughout their veg state, and the first half of flowering. That will keep the worms from growing on your plants. And that way, you don't have to spray your ripening buds.


In most areas, with higher humidity, I'd agree, but in my area(Central California) the Skippers were still active at Halloween.

When spraying late in the season, I try to use a very fine mist, basaically covering the leaves, lightly.

As I've been trimming, I've found quite a few dead, pea sized buds, where a worm had begun feeding, only to find Bt, very quickly. Nearly all of these occurred very late in flowering.


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## Schecter666 (Dec 3, 2009)

so fungual spores on buds, and also bud worms? that sucks, outdoor growing is gonna take a lot of maintenance to keep this shit away, but then again even the bugs know how good weed is, even they cant keep away lol


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## cancunphoto12 (Dec 7, 2009)

Schecter666 said:


> so fungual spores on buds, and also bud worms? that sucks, outdoor growing is gonna take a lot of maintenance to keep this shit away, but then again even the bugs know how good weed is, even they cant keep away lol


Thank you very much for clarification.
I bookmarked these info and will be back soon for further discussion. THanks again for sharing!


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## crazyMIman (Dec 12, 2009)

are these things in michigan?


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## stilldreaming5446 (Dec 12, 2009)

Dan Nabis said:


> I think I would dry those worms out and crush em up into a bowl and puff away.


 what are you a juggalo?


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## xtensity (Dec 23, 2009)

I've searched this entire thread..... does neem oil stop these from eating your buds?

I know neem oil doesn't kill but it's suppose to stop insects from being hungry and they just die from unknowing hunger and cant breed etc.... Does neem oil effect these guys?


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## 5tevie (Dec 26, 2009)

HA HA


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## indyman (Dec 30, 2009)

Dan nabis you really dont grow do u. Because if u did you would know what these things do to a plant.Don't be an idiot!


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## roomsupervisor (Jan 2, 2010)

Down with worms!


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## RedsGerrard (Jan 2, 2010)

bud worms are the worst m8 

thats why i vacated to ze indoors


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## slightlyjooish (Jan 2, 2010)

i dono if this helps, but if u cover the base of ur baby with SAP(like the stuff from trees) the worms will crawl on it and get stuck and die. its not really a way to kill them. just prevent them from getting on ur baby. but ya, iv had this problem before. i spent hours every day cleaning a big bush like that. bascially end of story is, i now grow indoor because i hate worms... hahah. good luck man


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## JoeCa1i (Jan 2, 2010)

Did'nt read all the replies,but the key is too keep moths out your grow area.you can spray neem oil around the plants,grow herbs that moths hate,you can buy moth lure traps and place um away from your plants.


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## Spinelli (Jan 7, 2010)

Hi all,

I'm new! Will be starting my first small indoor grow real soon, I'm in BC so I thought I would go local and ordered some Kush from BCSK should be here early next week, hope it's good! I'm glad I joined because I wanted to start my first outdoor crop as well this year after the first frost, I am in such a great place to do it that I just couldn't resist giving it a go. I thought that I would get some experiance under my belt though so am starting off indoors.

What are the best strains to go grow outdoors in mountainous terrain? Is it true that you can yield a pound or more off of 1 outdoor plant and roughly only an ounce with a plant indoors under a 400 watt HPS lamp? If I use a 1000 watt lamp at the flowering stage how much more per plant should it produce and how obvious is that to the electtric company?

How does sexing your plants outdoors work, I am assuming I would need to get rid of any males? How often does one need to check on the outdoor crop as I am trying to map out locations and such, if they require lot's of attention then it should be closer to home.... Also, there is tons of wild life, the deer especially, should I be concerned with them eating the crop?

Lots of questions, I know. I need the help though! Ok 1 more, What is a resonable amount to plant outdoors, would 2 people be enough to harvest let's say 100 plants or is that excessive when push comes to shove and it's time to pick the buds?

Thx


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## fitch303 (Jan 12, 2010)

What is BT?


----------



## Dayute (Jan 25, 2010)

fitch303 said:


> What is BT?


One thing that amazes me about this site is even in a 33 page thread like this you'll get the same question being asked, and being answered almost every single page. Read the thread or use the search feature. 

Was some great information in this thread though and definitely worth sifting through the whole thing. Will definitely do more research into moth traps.


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## zoefresssh666 (Feb 3, 2010)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


These are some beautiful plants. Don't really notice the damage :-/


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## Wetdog (Feb 3, 2010)

fitch303 said:


> Nice fuckin answer douche


Stupid fucking question asshat.

Didn't you ever learn to read? I found the answer on page 2 of this thread.

If your lazy ADD afflicted ass thinks all your answers are just going to come to you with no research on your part, your grow will most likely turn out to be shit, if you don't kill the plants first due to bad information from others as lame as yourself.

Wet


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## SpicyAK (Feb 7, 2010)

Awsome thread thanks guys for all the good info


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## NorCalTemp (Feb 10, 2010)

Is there any way to keep them out entirely? Fences? Barriers? Anything?

IM SCAREDD NOWW!


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## beefmaster (Feb 16, 2010)

i use a 4 foot pvc cube lined covered with tulle or some white fine net from joans basically making a screen room. I used a glue gun to attach the tulle. I don't have it sealed at the bottom but i have only seen one moth and a few flies get caught inside, like a bee trap. The moth must of been male because i never saw babys.


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## boseke420 (Feb 20, 2010)

ok bros those r thc worms if u pic em out put em in a jar and feed em weed then once they get so big u put it in a napkin and poke it with a needle then u squeeze all the liquid organs out dry it then smoke it my buddies dad does it every year hes got lik500 of the fuckrs


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## WheresWaldosBUD (Mar 5, 2010)

this is going to my first outdoor grow and i have 97 seeds. I'll appreciate all the help i could get or just come by and check my grow journal out and subscribe. see how everything turns out for my gorilla grow!


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## McGyver (Mar 7, 2010)

IS it high odds that youll get budworms if your growing outdoors?


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## pabloesqobar (Mar 8, 2010)

McGyver said:


> IS it high odds that youll get budworms if your growing outdoors?


It depends. The moths that lay their eggs, which become budworms, seem to like California, particularly Southern California. 

Even the more experienced Cali growers on this site have issues with them. If you've read this thread you can see there are several approaches to trying to prevent them - which should presumably lower the odds of getting them.

I'm not sure about other geographical areas.


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## shaftergardener (Mar 13, 2010)

i have used bt to no avail it doesnt affect taste but if your already infested it wont cut it its strictly preventative you could try predators ive heard of a predatory wasp that works well im using that next season also predatory nematodes are very effective when mixed with hor. oil to prevent dessecation and applied foliarly but if you have them you still gotta dig into your buds every morning and destroy resin glands to dig the mother [email protected]#kers out


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## KusHeD UP (Mar 14, 2010)

Dam what r the advantages of growing outside vs inside?


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## oscrogo (Mar 15, 2010)

pabloesqobar said:


> It depends. The moths that lay their eggs, which become budworms, seem to like California, particularly Southern California.
> 
> Even the more experienced Cali growers on this site have issues with them. If you've read this thread you can see there are several approaches to trying to prevent them - which should presumably lower the odds of getting them.
> 
> I'm not sure about other geographical areas.


Long time grower, first time poster (actually a former long time poster on OG back in the day, RIP OG...). 

I live in Maryland and we get them here, whether they are the same species of moth/larva or not, I dunno. From my experience, the moths seem to like to lay their eggs on more Indica heavy plants and not so much on Sativas. 

One year, we had some c99's growing next to some Sweettooth #3 (SoL strain). The c99's had no moth damage whatsoever while the sweettooths were decimated. We probably lost a quarter of the ST#3 harvest from mold/rot caused by the worms. This has held true for the most part, though we've had some odd balls; Skunk, for example, strains don't seem to get hit at all.

Over the past few years though, we've been spraying the ground with insecticide, especially towards the end of July and beginning of August when you really see the moths jumping up from the ground. The first couple years, the problem wasn't too bad at all and last year we had none at all. But, last winter, we did have a deep ground freeze where temps averaged about 25 degrees during the day for about a month, which could have something to do with how many hatch during mid-late summer. 

One last thing, as been probably said in this thread, look at your plants every day and pick the damaged bud out as soon as possible. The rot and mold these guys cause spreads and you'll lose a cola before you know it.


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## CBRider09 (Mar 17, 2010)

dude this is the first time ive seen this thread and i must say ... those are some big ass weed plants, or i should say big ass weed trees !!!! if i didnt know what weed looked like, id think those were some everyday bush i see on the side of the road...good work, besides the worms!


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## solartoke (Mar 21, 2010)

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


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## Ganjacooker (Mar 26, 2010)

Do these only show up during flowering?


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## MartinezTree (Mar 27, 2010)

Ganjacooker said:


> Do these only show up during flowering?


Yea I think so, last grow they got to my plants here in Northern California. They love the fat juicy buds. I would try and pull them out with tweezers and sometimes they would pop and green slime would ooze everywhere haha. Hope I don't get them this time around.


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## HeyHigh (Mar 29, 2010)

I live in Southern California and grow outdoors in self watering planters. I use 5 gallon buckets and the lid has a hole for the stem.
I have not had bud worms yet and am going to treat with BT. The lid of the planter I use would restrict the open soil the worm eggs start in.
So far I've just grown in winter lately so will update.
I just found and joined this forum and see a lot I plan to read.


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## pabloesqobar (Mar 29, 2010)

HeyHigh said:


> I live in Southern California and grow outdoors in self watering planters. I use 5 gallon buckets and the lid has a hole for the stem.
> I have not had bud worms yet and am going to treat with BT. The lid of the planter I use would restrict the open soil the worm eggs start in.
> So far I've just grown in winter lately so will update.
> I just found and joined this forum and see a lot I plan to read.


Just a quick FYI. The moths lay their eggs directly on your buds - I don't believe they start in the dirt. A lid on your planter will not prevent budworms. Here's a couple of pics from the eggs on my plant.


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## prof. chaos (Apr 3, 2010)

will neem oil or BT kill the good bugs ie. ladybugs, spiders and such?


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## MediMaryUser (Apr 3, 2010)

prof. chaos said:


> will neem oil or BT kill the good bugs ie. ladybugs, spiders and such?




i am pretty sure neem oil will do the same thing to good bugs as it does to bad bugs, and i think that bt is specific for caterpilliars and cutworms and other bugs like that it does something to them and i dont know if it does stuff to other bugs


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## legalize not legal lies (Apr 4, 2010)

is there anyway to keep budworms away naturally would garlic and mineral water work


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## humble learner (Apr 5, 2010)

this is how I protect from caterpillars, haven't had 1 yet.....


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## thebudmaster (Apr 5, 2010)

are they real worms?? or is it something that grows on the bud??? cuz now im scared all my stuff will be screwed ~help~


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## pabloesqobar (Apr 5, 2010)

thebudmaster said:


> are they real worms?? or is it something that grows on the bud??? cuz now im scared all my stuff will be screwed ~help~


Budmaster, if you read this thread - hell just the first page, it will answer your questions.


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## Coreyhulick (Apr 7, 2010)

What regions of the states would they live in


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## redfox30 (Apr 8, 2010)

That's kind of unfortunate if all these flowering plants will just be screwed up by these pests


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## TheOrganic (Apr 12, 2010)

U can get High off Bud worms


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## KuSH4LiFe (Apr 18, 2010)

Does NY usually have problems with budworms?


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## plantdreams (Apr 24, 2010)

What is BT? Would this be a problem in South Texas right on the border? Thanks everyone.


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## Chumlie (May 1, 2010)

what type of bt do you recomend, I found thuricide by bonide. Also what if your gorilla growing and you can not go out there every week and spray. Like yall know the urban grower? I know he grows on the inside, but he mixes up a preventive spray of like 4 or 5 different organic pest controls and spray it on his veging plants a couple weeks before flowering. Is there anything like this for outside?


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## naturesluxuries (May 2, 2010)

I am wondering if it would Mayyyybe help to put vasaline or something similar around the base of the plant?? I know that tooth paste will prevent ants from passing on my fruit trees. Just a thought. Has anyone tried it?


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## pabloesqobar (May 3, 2010)

naturesluxuries said:


> I am wondering if it would Mayyyybe help to put vasaline or something similar around the base of the plant?? I know that tooth paste will prevent ants from passing on my fruit trees. Just a thought. Has anyone tried it?


How would vaseline at the base of the plant prevent moths from laying eggs on the top of your buds? I don't see how that would be effective.


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## naturesluxuries (May 3, 2010)

Lol thank you. I just read back through the thread and caught that. I'm a dork. I thought they crawled up, not produced on it already. I have never grown outdoors but I am planning to start tomorrow. I'm just learning here.


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## [email protected]$ (May 5, 2010)

i hate those fuckers im pickin them off my girls every 2 days cause i dont want that BT shit touchin wat imma b smokin


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## veggiegardener (May 6, 2010)

[email protected]$ said:


> i hate those fuckers im pickin them off my girls every 2 days cause i dont want that BT shit touchin wat imma b smokin


Bacon is more harmful than Bt.

Bt is a bacteria that attacks the digestive system of caterpillars. It kills them. It has NO effect on us.

Every bud I've grown in the last 25 years has been treated with Bt. No ill effects.

And very few bud worms.


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## ocotillo1 (May 7, 2010)

OK my first year growing a plant outdoors in Phoenix bought a feminized seed blue mystic planted March 11 in a 1 1/2 gallon pot now it is only a foot high and it has buds growing I know I should have planted in a small container and then replanted to a bigger pot but too late now ...suggestions can I re pot it now or too late why is it budding allready does that mean it is flowering ?


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## Zig Zag Zane (May 9, 2010)

Trying to figure out this budworm catastrophe for our 2010 grow, last year we had a pretty decent grow....
We were not prepared for the budworms though...such devastation. and it seems Socal gets em baddd. Anyways we did some research and im a bit surprised I havent heard any mention of "Trichogramma Wasps" which are beneficial insects specifically for caterpillars, we're thinking about ordering some, but kinda on the fence.....we just took such a fucking *loss* last year ONLY because of the budworms, my son was outside everyday diggin through the buds and it was still just aweful, musta lost a whole pound because of those fuckers. this year we MUST prevent them, any of you guys think I could spray BT and use those wasps? What would yall do? google those trichogramma wasps though real quick, they look perfect for the job.


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## pabloesqobar (May 10, 2010)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> Trying to figure out this budworm catastrophe for our 2010 grow, last year we had a pretty decent grow....
> We were not prepared for the budworms though...such devastation. and it seems Socal gets em baddd. Anyways we did some research and im a bit surprised I havent heard any mention of "Trichogramma Wasps" which are beneficial insects specifically for caterpillars, we're thinking about ordering some, but kinda on the fence.....we just took such a fucking *loss* last year ONLY because of the budworms, my son was outside everyday diggin through the buds and it was still just aweful, musta lost a whole pound because of those fuckers. this year we MUST prevent them, any of you guys think I could spray BT and use those wasps? What would yall do? google those trichogramma wasps though real quick, they look perfect for the job.


I just googled it and came across an older link for this site where this idea was discussed:

https://www.rollitup.org/outdoor-growing/120651-ideas-controlling-bud-worms-moths.html

Seems like a viable solution.


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## Cali chronic (May 10, 2010)

tristis said:


> Praying Mantis solves this NP. They hatch in late July but mature and feed at the end of August when buds are blooming. We've had them established in our yard for 15 years plus. Very cool looking but also killers when it comes to plant parasites. You can buy them but it wouldn't help until next year. I have seen at least 5 sitting on my plants at any one time ready to eat anything that dares to touch my babies. You also don't have to flush after spraying lol.


 can you get a picture of that----I would love to see that


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## youngcultivater (May 16, 2010)

in the southern hemisphere in australia is it common to get these insects ans worms in your plants?????


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## pabloesqobar (May 18, 2010)

I just spotted the moth eggs on my Easyryders. Fortunately, they can probably be harvested anytime now. I removed each one I could find. I poked through the bud and couldn't find a single worm or any damage. I should be in the clear. I'm surprised the moths came around this early in the season.


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## dirrtyd (May 18, 2010)

They are already here in the Bay Area also.


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## Zig Zag Zane (May 19, 2010)

Ive already decided now that im ordering $100 worth of trichogramma wasps come flowering.


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## pabloesqobar (May 19, 2010)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> Ive already decided now that im ordering $100 worth of trichogramma wasps come flowering.


Should be money well spent. You still gonna use the BT? Keep us posted on the results.


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## Zig Zag Zane (May 19, 2010)

Naw, its either beneficials...or sprays, dont think you could do both... I may spray bt before I use the wasps though. If the wasps are anything like they're described then they should dramatically reduce the havoc the fucking worms cause lol These wasps lay eggs IN the moths or butterflies eggs, so it should stop em before they even have a chance at birth...I really hope it works well.


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## pabloesqobar (May 19, 2010)

Yeah, I just looked at the other link about the wasps. Which kind are you getting? I see some species are recommended for plants over 8 - 10 feet tall - and a different species for smaller plants: http://greenmethods.com/site/shop/buy-bugs/2/

I followed your '09 journal off and on. I was bummed when my one (1) plant was infested last year. I can't imagine how pissed off you must have been. Your plants were monsters.


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## Zig Zag Zane (May 19, 2010)

pabloesqobar said:


> Yeah, I just looked at the other link about the wasps. Which kind are you getting? I see some species are recommended for plants over 8 - 10 feet tall - and a different species for smaller plants: http://greenmethods.com/site/shop/buy-bugs/2/
> 
> I followed your '09 journal off and on. I was bummed when my one (1) plant was infested last year. I can't imagine how pissed off you must have been. Your plants were monsters.


Im getting these ones in this link: http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/itemdesc.asp?ic=PCBENTRICHO&eq=&Tp=, they're alive and not eggs so it should be easier to use them.

I saw that thing too about the different species but I dont think Ill have to worry, my plants are gonna be less tall and real bushy this year, plus the way it was last year, the wasps should have plenty to do...it was a fucking infestation last year that I didnt notice till it was too late, thats one of the reasons I never finished my journal, shit got CRAZY near harvest, constant harvesting at different times, non stop trimming for those like 2 months of my life, and picking worms daily, everything was so hectic I just didnt have the time or energy to keep the journal updated, I felt bad haha but yeah it sucked really bad, still a big harvest, but so many big colas were just too fucked lol


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## Mrmb (May 21, 2010)

Does anyone know what the ideal environment is for these worms is? The reason I ask is, I am at 6,000 feet in the mountains of socal and I see them having trouble living at this altitude. Although it does get plenty warm in the summer up here.


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## pabloesqobar (May 21, 2010)

Mrmb said:


> Does anyone know what the ideal environment is for these worms is? The reason I ask is, I am at 6,000 feet in the mountains of socal and I see them having trouble living at this altitude. Although it does get plenty warm in the summer up here.


I don't have any personal knowledge, but it seems that moths should be able to survive just fine up there. Do you grow, and if so have you had any issues with budworms?


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## GodsCreat0r (May 21, 2010)

Its unbelivable , Every time i go to my site , it feels like im walking threw a haunted house , no matter where i turn theres this clear web that the worms hang off , and it gets alll over me , i was watching brown dirt warrior the other day and i was like hmm , no wonder he wears a facemask , so if any1 takes pitures they cant say its actually him , and he dosent have to deal with that web getting on him as mutch.

Also the ticks are fucking crazy , i found on on my neck like 3 on my arms , is there any repelents that make the ticks wana drop off your skin ?


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## pabloesqobar (May 21, 2010)

GodsCreat0r said:


> Its unbelivable , Every time i go to my site , it feels like im walking threw a haunted house , no matter where i turn theres this clear web that the worms hang off , and it gets alll over me , i was watching brown dirt warrior the other day and i was like hmm , no wonder he wears a facemask , so if any1 takes pitures they cant say its actually him , and he dosent have to deal with that web getting on him as mutch.
> 
> Also the ticks are fucking crazy , i found on on my neck like 3 on my arms , is there any repelents that make the ticks wana drop off your skin ?


I'm not sure if you're just goofing around or if this is a serious question.


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## Zig Zag Zane (May 21, 2010)

Not sure what climate they prefer but I think anywhere outdoors is vulnerable to the budworms, basically if you see butterflies and/or moths, then its a problem. The budworms seem to love Southern california though because its hot and arid. Godscreat0r, not sure about ticks, never have had any problems with them.


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## CptTrips (May 26, 2010)

I have a marshy area behind my grow & the Praying mantis there are a great help. I had 0 bad bugs last grow


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## veggiegardener (May 29, 2010)

View attachment 964837

I haven't been through this thread completely, so if someone already mentioned this, my apologies. I discovered which butterfly was leaving bud worm eggs in my garden.

These are Fiery Skippers. They're small. About 3/4 inch long, and very fast and energetic.

Do a search and you'll find pictures of their heads. this is a dead giveaway when you compare them to a bud worm.

If you see these guys in your garden, go buy a bottle of Bacillus Thuringiensis. Bt, also known a Caterpillar Killer. I use the stuff from Safer.

If this saves one bud, it is worth it.


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## veggiegardener (May 29, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> i just chased that little butterfly all over my garden. it was trying to lay eggs in my buds. i watched it. little gold thing. about this size of a nickel. i also saw a wasp checking the leaves for eggs to eat.



I think Fdd saw a Fiery Skipper.


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## veggiegardener (May 29, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> every moth and butterfly in my county has visited my garden. from little tiny brown moths that fly outta the lawn to big gold butterflies. i have wasps and spiders working for me but the moths still get by them. i started spraying Bt when flowers first started forming. once your buds get some density to them the Bt won't get down inside. if the worm makes it past the Bt he's home free. if you have fat colas and you haven't sprayed yet you may already have them deep inside.
> 
> View attachment 212740 View attachment 212741


Just found this. WTG, FDD!


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## Jut (May 30, 2010)

woah thas scary i dont want my ladys getting infected by them lil buggers are they everywhere or just in certain places ):


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## inmate177 (Jun 3, 2010)

waz good people i got some seeds i took off my brother and planted them i have grown b4 indoor and outdoor but this looks like no bud i have seen b4 can some one tell me here's a picView attachment 973526 its 3 weeks old.


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## kizzahlicken (Jun 4, 2010)

i dident read any other posts so som1 might have already sed this but, only every spray pesticides on marijuana before it flowers only spray while its in a vegitative state otgherwise you will be smoking your pesaticide and u will probly choke to death and scream while your gasping for your last breath because your lungs had just beed killed. sooo be safe and dont have nightmares heheheh


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## Zig Zag Zane (Jun 4, 2010)

kizzahlicken said:


> i dident read any other posts so som1 might have already sed this but, only every spray pesticides on marijuana before it flowers only spray while its in a vegitative state otgherwise you will be smoking your pesaticide and u will probly choke to death and scream while your gasping for your last breath because your lungs had just beed killed. sooo be safe and dont have nightmares heheheh


yeah thats our problem, spraying during flowering is a definite no-no...yet these worms only attack our buds! it blows. When I have the extra cash, im thinking a huge carport with mesh over the entire thing will be the only fullproof way....


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## greenjoe (Jun 4, 2010)

crushed egg shells around the base, it is suppose to scratch their bellies,then they die apparently Also what about those sticky sheets that are used to trap roaches and mice?


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## veggiegardener (Jun 4, 2010)

Bt is completely non toxic. I spray until about the 1st of October.

I wouldn't do this with anything else.


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## roundplanet (Jun 4, 2010)

Hey, check out the new slogan, its really cool man


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## Zig Zag Zane (Jun 4, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Bt is completely non toxic. I spray until about the 1st of October.
> 
> I wouldn't do this with anything else.


You really think spraying BT all over your flowers isnt affecting them? Ive always heard not to during flowering....


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## veggiegardener (Jun 6, 2010)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> You really think spraying BT all over your flowers isnt affecting them? Ive always heard not to during flowering....


I started using Bt for tomato worms before I started growing pot.

A friend warned me about bud worms before I got my first crop in. I started using Bt on my Cannabis, too.

If you read the contents of the Bt preparation, you'll realize that maple sugar is the worst part of it. That can be washed away a few days after application.

Enough Bt bacteria remain to snuff any worms, for a few weeks.

There are far worse things in the dust that settles on your plants.

I give my girls a bath weekly, but during late flowering, I choose my days, carefully, picking warm dry days to rinse the plants in the morning.

I've been using Bt for decades and exclusively smoking my home grown. Never noticed anything negative.

I know of nothing that outperforms and is less toxic than Bt. Do you?

Bud worms can each destroy at least one khola, in a very short time.

I'll take my chances.

BTW, my late season applications are set at a very fine mist, which doesn't penetrate the bud enough to cause mold problems.

Earlier, the Bt is one part of the mixture I use to foliar feed, which is a drench.

My greenhouses very rarely get worms, but I've found butterflies in them, so I spray those plants lightly, as well.


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## SCherbologist (Jun 7, 2010)

Are these worms in southeast us tho?


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## veggiegardener (Jun 7, 2010)

You can probably find out by searching "Fiery Skipper". It is the butterfly that lays the eggs.


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## sugarbush (Jun 8, 2010)

Great.. I was wondering what those white foams were... eggs.. Damn their all over the place.. :[


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## pabloesqobar (Jun 8, 2010)

sugarbush said:


> Great.. I was wondering what those white foams were... eggs.. Damn their all over the place.. :[


Post some pics of them here if you can. Do they look like tiny, perfectly round "eggs", smaller than the size of a pin head? I'd remove as many as you can by hand, and spray with BT. Inspect your buds for worms. If you don't find any, there's a chance the BT will work. The worms have to digest the BT, which means they have to hatch first and start eating. That's if I understood the process correctly.

By the way, veggiegardner, or anyone else for that matter, will spraying plants with Neem after spraying with BT, effectively "wash" the BT off? I sprayed with BT a couple of days ago, but plan on spraying with Neem tomorrow evening. Hopefully the Neem doesn't wipe out the BT.


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## roundplanet (Jun 9, 2010)

Where can you buy BT? Is it sold at retailer's? Thanx.


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## pabloesqobar (Jun 9, 2010)

roundplanet said:


> Where can you buy BT? Is it sold at retailer's? Thanx.


I purchased some at Lowe's. I'm assuming Home Depot carries it too.


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## CONNISSUER (Jun 9, 2010)

how u get ur plant(s) 2 bud so early..?


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## pabloesqobar (Jun 9, 2010)

CONNISSUER said:


> how u get ur plant(s) 2 bud so early..?


Not sure who you're referring to. I'm growing mostly autos. They start flowering automatically around 21 days from seed. Very small plants.


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## Budlover25 (Jun 11, 2010)

Yeah, that sounds like the best solution to me.LOL


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## Budlover25 (Jun 11, 2010)

pabloesqobar said:


> Post some pics of them here if you can. Do they look like tiny, perfectly round "eggs", smaller than the size of a pin head? I'd remove as many as you can by hand, and spray with BT. Inspect your buds for worms. If you don't find any, there's a chance the BT will work. The worms have to digest the BT, which means they have to hatch first and start eating. That's if I understood the process correctly.
> 
> By the way, veggiegardner, or anyone else for that matter, will spraying plants with Neem after spraying with BT, effectively "wash" the BT off? I sprayed with BT a couple of days ago, but plan on spraying with Neem tomorrow evening. Hopefully the Neem doesn't wipe out the BT.


Where do these worms reside? im from Alabama but I have never seen them before.


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## DanKnuG (Jun 13, 2010)

whats BT stand for ¿? where can i get it if i need it


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## BigBug (Jun 14, 2010)

Im finding these in my outdoor, its my first grow... i picked a bunch out by hand, also i notice wasp out there in the day i leave them be, i saw someone post on here they make good hunters for bugs on your plants.. 

i picked out all the lil rott stuff it left in the buds also just tryed FF dont bug me... might just get the catapillar killer. and get some moth balls to put around to prevent this mabey a few bars of irish srping soap... these commen for most people in solcal?

plan on picking up some ladybugs would get a mantis but its not sesion for them yet...

how many of these worms could u expect to find on a plant i found atleast 5 on one so far, others nothing really yet...


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## BigBug (Jun 14, 2010)

if i have to harvest early due to this, is there something i can do the plants that have these budworms to get the remaining ones out?


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## colaboy22 (Jun 15, 2010)

these are beautiful pics. try to enter them in a weed pic contest. i think u could win


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## kbaked420 (Jun 16, 2010)

im pretty sure its fine to use spray, but you should stop about a month before harvest, other wise its pretty much like smoking poison


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## GanjaVerde (Jun 17, 2010)

Had a problem with these guys last year, not making the same mistake twice. Running out to get some spray tomorrow...


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## saint Superior (Jun 17, 2010)

First off, ive smoked em, they go pop, as far as the comments on BT being organic, it may be but if its strong enough to kill bugs... anyways, ive also heard that you should cut out all fertilizer (and spray) for the week or so before you harvest, it makes the smoke less harsh? i havent had time to do a double blind study, some how i always get distracted...


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## veggiegardener (Jun 18, 2010)

I've posted several times in this thread regarding Bt. I'm amazed that no one has read those posts.

Bacillus thurengiensis is NON TOXIC, because the active ingredient specifically attacks only the caterpillars of butterflies and moths. NOTHING ELSE.

There ARE other strains of Bt that attack mosquitos(dunks), and others may be in development for other insects.

Bt is one of the oldest organic pesticides and I've told hundreds of gardeners(actually tens of thousands if you include a previous incarnation as a paid organic gardening adviser at a 90's chat site.), and never had a complaint.

In California there is no better alternative to Bt.

Begin spraying now, and continue applications every three weeks until a month before harvest.

If you are still seeing a lot of Fiery Skipper butterflies, consider spraying the leaves and buds with a very fine mist that won't penetrate the buds.

Give the buds a good bath a few hours before harvest to minimize any traces of the spray, bird shit and dust.

Take a good look at the picture linked below. THIS is the source of bud worms!

http://www.genehanson.com/photos/butterfly/fiery_skipper_9086.jpg


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## BigBug (Jun 18, 2010)

define bath like how? dunk the nugs in water?


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## veggiegardener (Jun 18, 2010)

You can dip them in water, but I usually just hose the plants down a few hours before I cut them. I usually hang branches at least three feet long.

I hose down all my plants regularly, throughout the season, so they're already strong enough to handle the extra weight, PLUS, as the season goes on I provide various supports to minimize breakage due to weight, water and wind.


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## roundplanet (Jun 18, 2010)

WOW! Insects are just the coolest looking things.


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## DOPEYSstoned (Jun 22, 2010)

i understand your stress, but i really dont think that would be to good for your lungs ( if you were being serious) lulz


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## city limit warrior (Jun 29, 2010)

pabloesqobar said:


> I purchased some at Lowe's. I'm assuming Home Depot carries it too.


what is the name of bt and does it say that name on the label?


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## odbsmydog (Jul 1, 2010)

catapiller killer is what its sold as. Bacillus Thuriengensis is the ingredient.


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## city limit warrior (Jul 2, 2010)

odbsmydog said:


> catapiller killer is what its sold as. Bacillus Thuriengensis is the ingredient.


Thanks man I went into home depot a couple of wks ago and asked for it and got looked at like i was a idiot, quess i shouldve looked closer myself.


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## veggiegardener (Jul 2, 2010)

Bt is the BOMB for Tomato Horn Worms. In most cases, nursery employees are very familiar with the question, "What do I do about tomato worms?"

it also works on cut worms and cabbage worms, as well.


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 3, 2010)

What are the drawbacks of using BT? My ladies are vegging out beautifully outside, and I had to pick some small dark worms off them when they were younger. So I'm guessing the bud worms are just waiting to break my heart. I'm trying to be 100% safe in terms of toxins and keep the flavor perfect. I'm currently using AzaMax and SM-90 but I don't think these will help with worms at all.

These are my two best plants. They're growing from clones in a mix of Foxfarm Ocean and old sun-baked cheap potting soil enriched with worm castings and mixed with perlite.


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## veggiegardener (Jul 3, 2010)

Beautiful plants!

The _ONLY_ downside to Bt is that it usually comes suspended in a maple sugar syrup. It is diluted heavily so even the sugar in the spray is a tiny amount. After a couple days, I give my girls a bath, which seems eliminate any residual sugar. I've been using this stuff for nearly three decades and have never had a negative result.

It is as organic as anything we use.

BTW, Azamax is doing a wonderful job eliminating a nasty thrip problem I had last season. Good stuff.


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 3, 2010)

Thanks! Sorry the pix are so big. Other forums resize them automatically, but I don't know how to do that here.


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## veggiegardener (Jul 3, 2010)

The third icon from the right, just above the "Quick Reply" window will allow you to upload pix from your computer. It does a good job posting thumbnails.


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 3, 2010)

Actually, that's what I did...then just pasted in my IMG links, but it didn't thumbnail them. Weird.


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## veggiegardener (Jul 4, 2010)

Well, after 15 years online, I'm up to "incompetent". Hopefully someone else has an idea?


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 4, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Well, after 15 years online, I'm up to "incompetent". Hopefully someone else has an idea?


No worries! These girls look GOOD up close!  And you're hardly incompetent, my friend. Hey, which brand of BT do you use, if you don't mind me asking.


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## veggiegardener (Jul 5, 2010)

ChemoBoy said:


> No worries! These girls look GOOD up close!  And you're hardly incompetent, my friend. Hey, which brand of BT do you use, if you don't mind me asking.


I use Safer's.

http://www.flowerdepotstore.com/sacakiwibt.html

or

http://www.plantitearth.com/pest-control/safer-caterpillar-killer.aspx

I think the first link pictures an older package design. The second is what I currently have.

Shop around and buy several bottles at the lowest price.

I usually find it for under $10. Sometime $8.


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## rootsorganic (Jul 5, 2010)

Does anyone knw the shelf life of the saferbrand??I have some frm last year still left.


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## veggiegardener (Jul 5, 2010)

I've kept opened bottles for two years. It was still effective.

Last year, the Fiery Skipper butterflies showed up in May in HUGE numbers.

Oddly, this year, I've yet to see one.

I generally don't spray Bt much until I see them.(One application so far, this season.)


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## rootsorganic (Jul 5, 2010)

Veggie im in the same area as you.Im already dealing with caterpillars,this is the earliest iv'e ever had them.To top it off im now dealing with grasshoppers.It seems im only gettin the pillars on my plants from seed nothing on the clones.


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## veggiegardener (Jul 5, 2010)

rootsorganic said:


> Veggie im in the same area as you.Im already dealing with caterpillars,this is the earliest iv'e ever had them.To top it off im now dealing with grasshoppers.It seems im only gettin the pillars on my plants from seed nothing on the clones.


Since I haven't any plants in bud, I haven't looked for early caterpillar damage(webbing of leaf surfaces). I'll take a hard look in the morning. I think it's time for another foliar spray, as well.

I've noticed over the years that the butterflies sometimes show a preference for certain strains. Herijuana comes to mind.


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 5, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Since I haven't any plants in bud, I haven't looked for early caterpillar damage(webbing of leaf surfaces). I'll take a hard look in the morning. I think it's time for another foliar spray, as well.
> 
> I've noticed over the years that the butterflies sometimes show a preference for certain strains. Herijuana comes to mind.


Veggiegardener, I saw a few 1/2 cm worms maybe a month ago and removed them with extreme prejudice. Since then, I've seen occasional damage but VERY light, and no particular attention from butterflies. Would you recommend I go ahead and start with the BT or just keep an eye on it? Some growers have recommended spraying every 3 weeks through veg, but I've got months left.


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## veggiegardener (Jul 5, 2010)

ChemoBoy said:


> Veggiegardener, I saw a few 1/2 cm worms maybe a month ago and removed them with extreme prejudice. Since then, I've seen occasional damage but VERY light, and no particular attention from butterflies. Would you recommend I go ahead and start with the BT or just keep an eye on it? Some growers have recommended spraying every 3 weeks through veg, but I've got months left.


If you haven't applied Bt yet, it is time.

I sprayed the first time about three weeks ago, just because.


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 5, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> If you haven't applied Bt yet, it is time.
> 
> I sprayed the first time about three weeks ago, just because.


Thanks. Operation BT commences tomorrow.


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## Mrmb (Jul 7, 2010)

Does anyone have experience with the BT powder?


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## veggiegardener (Jul 8, 2010)

Mrmb said:


> Does anyone have experience with the BT powder?


I'm not familiar with it.

Read labels. Some Bt products are for mosquitos and are ineffective on caterpillars.


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## blower (Jul 9, 2010)

Seeing some holes on leafs in garden. Some white flys on other veggies and black dot-bug???
Mister is a mix of insect soap and neem oil. If done early in day may burn leafs?
How many times a day to mist? Or just water leafs with hose?
What else to prevent these pests


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## kamonra (Jul 10, 2010)

hey guys .. does lady bugs pose danger to your plants ... i read that they may help eat some of the pest .. is it true .. beacuse i put a fat lady bug on my plant an it seemed to love it she crawl all over the plant i mean it crawl on every inch of the plant as if it was searching for the critters .. or was it looking for the best spot to munch down on ????


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 10, 2010)

kamonra said:


> hey guys .. does lady bugs pose danger to your plants ... i read that they may help eat some of the pest .. is it true .. beacuse i put a fat lady bug on my plant an it seemed to love it she crawl all over the plant i mean it crawl on every inch of the plant as if it was searching for the critters .. or was it looking for the best spot to munch down on ????


No. They don't eat plant matter. Ladybugs will eat the aphids that are there and then fly away. It's best to put the out in the evening just before dark (like when it's VERY close to dark). First mist the plants and the soil lightly, then put the ladybugs out at the base of the plant on the soil. They'll climb the plant and huddle down for the night. Then the next day they'll start exploring (when it's warm again). When the aphids are gone, the ladybugs are gone. 

This is how they look when they're waiting for it to get warm or if aphids have infested your new growth. But they'll be gone soon!


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## veggiegardener (Jul 10, 2010)

I put ladybugs in my greenhouses, each Spring. A couple thousand each.

This is usually enough to slow any infestations way down.

Ladybugs migrate to the Sierra foothills each fall, and return to their birthplace each Spring to lay eggs, so each Spring I get a bunch of ladybugs in my garden. 

They eat all the small pests like Aphids, White Flies, Spider Mites and Thrips.

Good luck!


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 10, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> I put ladybugs in my greenhouses, each Spring. A couple thousand each.
> 
> This is usually enough to slow any infestations way down.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the migration info. I just assumed they went far far away and never came back. So if I can get them breeding in my garden, they'll come back maybe.


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## Cali chronic (Jul 10, 2010)

To whom it may concern:
Bud worms are the start but not always the cause of Bud mold. Or known as Botrytis. Not sure of the spelling.
BT is a hormone you can use it to the last day of harvest. After 3 days in UV light it is gone ---dissipated!

When the Cat eats it poops that poop will cause a fungus. That fungus is bad to smoke it will damage humans and their lungs. 
If you have bud mold because of worms you need to cut about 1 inch below the infected area. As the Mold grows inside the stalk too and will infect the top soon enough and travel down as it's spores drop down too.
I delved into Mold although it is a worm topic as I am hoping to save some ones respiratory system here.
To thwart bud worms you must get rid of the mama's the moths that lay them or butterflies also seen on as a tramp stamp on a woman's back.
Spray your girls with BT once a week if you see moths and butterflies up to every other day. The mixture is 1/2 tsp to a 23 oz spray bottle. Neem oil is always a good idea I feed in soil upto last 4 weeks as well as spray on leaves and buds (never in the sun)
Tight compact bud must be harvested at cloudy if you wait till amber you have increased the possibilites of Mold expodentialy. 

I have had good luck with feeding and watering up to the last week flush with R.O H20 and a Flush product that contains folic acid "b" I think or 'A' to help release nutes. By keeping her strong and healty she can fight off infection and disease those worms bring. I also wash my girls at harvest Morning of---trim shade leaves off ---hudson sprayer----4 oz of h202 to 2 gallons of H20 and spray them down real good 'carwash style' let dry that afternoon under shade that evening toss her in the dark and go get her the day after in the morning snip and hang. 
Clean washed bud no Mold Worms or Neem or B.T nada nothing bud bud.
If she had a mold spot #1 Mold needs UV top complete cycle #2 real evident after being in the dark 48 hours #3 gives me the oppurtunity to cut and throw away potential bud that could get me sick or a memeber of the collective I belong too. Bud worms=Bud mold ----Bud Mold= sick Human!


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 10, 2010)

Cali chronic said:


> To whom it may concern:
> Bud worms are the start but not always the cause of Bud mold. Or known as Botrytis. Not sure of the spelling.
> BT is a hormone you can use it to the last day of harvest. After 3 days in UV light it is gone ---dissipated!
> 
> ...


what strength H2O2? Anyone else spraying with peroxide at harvest?


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## veggiegardener (Jul 10, 2010)

Cali chronic said:


> To whom it may concern:
> Bud worms are the start but not always the cause of Bud mold. Or known as Botrytis. Not sure of the spelling.
> BT is a hormone you can use it to the last day of harvest. After 3 days in UV light it is gone ---dissipated!
> 
> ...


Please check your facts, or cite credible sources. Bt is NOT a hormone. UV kills it but not in three days. 

I never spray Bt more often than every two weeks, but usually once every three weeks is adequate. It's best not to use Bt in the last few weeks before harvest. If you've been using Bt through the season, about three weeks before harvest, using a very fine mist, spray your plants lightly. Done correctly, the mist will coat the leaves without excess moisture on and in the buds. Worms will die before they can do any serious damage.

Agreed. Never smoke moldy weed.

Thank you.


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## kamonra (Jul 11, 2010)

thanks you are right .. i put the lady bug in the dirt i tclimbed ny trees and search thoe whole tree .. it was there for hours and then it wasa gone .. i wanted it to come back


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## RockstarEnergy (Jul 12, 2010)

will pyrethrin prevent budworms or does it have to be BT?


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## veggiegardener (Jul 12, 2010)

Many things will kill caterpillars. But they can also kill any beneficials, as well.

Bt is preferable because it attacks ONLY caterpillars and is almost 100% effective.


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## RockstarEnergy (Jul 12, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Many things will kill caterpillars. But they can also kill any beneficials, as well.
> 
> Bt is preferable because it attacks ONLY caterpillars and is almost 100% effective.


ok thanks veggie! do you know any good brands to buy? i was looking a Safer Brand caterpiller. it says it has BT in it but i dont really know what to look for.


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## 7thtoker (Jul 17, 2010)

little wormies hahaah. worm castings in mah soillll for life!!!!


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## Cali chronic (Jul 17, 2010)

Here this may help it is like a Hormone as mentioned before---not a hormone---Like a Hormone---Safe to use---and does burn off with sunshine
Ughhhh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_thuringiensis
There you will find on that a page a link for bacterium. I was referencing the Bible and I may have read someones reference to safety of the bacteria like a yeast. But all in all with out Nit picking --- but expect nothing less veggie--- true it is not a hormone. Like a Hormone because it interrupts breeding too. I think it will help those trying to battle infestation currently. Pyrythium is more like a flash bang it disorientates knocks em down but older stuff will get back up. so to knock em down shake em off and then B.T em I guess would be the order to use it.

Now if 7thtoker would elaborate on the theory or why worm castings in his soil for life will or how much ??


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## JoeCa1i (Jul 18, 2010)

After the 2-3 week mark I would spray anything on them.


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## veggiegardener (Jul 19, 2010)

JoeCa1i said:


> After the 2-3 week mark I would spray anything on them.


Including gasoline?


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## Shredder111 (Jul 19, 2010)

How can you guys use those nasty ass chemicals on your plants? If I used shit like that, I wouldn't even smoke them! It's just not worth the health risk. Why not try some organic methods u big silly gooses!?


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 19, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Including gasoline?


Yeah, I'm getting great results with gasoline.  Just spray that shit on and I have NO plant problems after that...well, after they die anyway.



Shredder111 said:


> How can you guys use those nasty ass chemicals on your plants? If I used shit like that, I wouldn't even smoke them! It's just not worth the health risk. Why not try some organic methods u big silly gooses!?


BT is bacteria. How is that less "organic" than, say, AzaMax or even coriander oil?


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## veggiegardener (Jul 19, 2010)

ChemoBoy said:


> Yeah, I'm getting great results with gasoline.  Just spray that shit on and I have NO plant problems after that...well, after they die anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> BT is bacteria. How is that less "organic" than, say, AzaMax or even coriander oil?


Sorry, once in a while I can't resist. I'm figuring there was an "n't" missing.

Regarding Bt, agreed, it doesn't get any more organic unless you enjoy smoking mold! (There's nothing more "organic" than fungi.)


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## chris chronic (Jul 25, 2010)

what would happen if u dryed one of those fuckers out and smoked it ?


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## veggiegardener (Jul 25, 2010)

chris chronic said:


> what would happen if u dryed one of those fuckers out and smoked it ?


If you're talking about a worm, I think you'd cough a lot.

I think I might be able to get $20 a gram for my old lady, dried out.


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## JoeCa1i (Jul 25, 2010)

Yeh would'nt spray anything on them.The only thing I spray is a low dose neem spray,until the 10th day of 12/12,then I hit them with my homemade bloom spray(organic)a couple times.Then I spray them with water on week 3 1/2,after that no more sprays.Might be different for hazes,or strains with longer flowering times.


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## chris chronic (Jul 26, 2010)

ive heard of people getting fucked up smoking those


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## veggiegardener (Jul 27, 2010)

I saw my first Skipper butterfly this morning. I put together a foliar spray that included Bt, soluble NPK, epsom salts, Superthrive, Cytozyme foliar, and Seaweed emulsion. The ingredients vary, depending on what I have at the moment. I take care not to make the foliar solution too strong. On two occasions I've burned leaves with it. Nothing disastrous, but unsightly for a couple weeks.

I used to add a lot of fish emulsion to that mix, but my wife complained that it made the weed take on a strong menthol flavor. I didn't see the down side, but she didn't like it.


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 27, 2010)

VG, I know you must have mentioned this before but I can't find it. Did you say you spray BT right up to 2 days before harvest?

Thanks!


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## pabloesqobar (Jul 28, 2010)

Not surprisingly, I woke up the other day and upon inspection found several little moth eggs on one of my plants. I removed all of them and sprayed with BT. The plants I sprayed have about 2 weeks until harvest. 

Since I grow autos (which the exception of 1 Kandy Kush) I looked for a lightweight material to use as a screen. The "pest screen" material at Lowe's wouldn't have worked because the holes were too big. So I wandered around and found this sheer material that should work great. It's some kind of curtain. Cost $10.00 at Lowe's, but I bet you could find the same type of thing at Target/Walmart/Drugstore for less.

I lashed some skewers together to make them longer, stuck them in the dirt on each side of the plant, cut a square of the material and draped it over. I think this should work. I'll drape these over the plants in the evening, and remove in the morning. There was plenty of material in that one package to make one for each plant.


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## veggiegardener (Jul 28, 2010)

ChemoBoy said:


> VG, I know you must have mentioned this before but I can't find it. Did you say you spray BT right up to 2 days before harvest?
> 
> Thanks!


No.

My last application is usually about two or three weeks before harvest. After that, I wash the girls down a couple times on warm sunny mornings to allow time for the buds to dry out.


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## veggiegardener (Jul 28, 2010)

pabloesqobar said:


> Not surprisingly, I woke up the other day and upon inspection found several little moth eggs on one of my plants. I removed all of them and sprayed with BT. The plants I sprayed have about 2 weeks until harvest.
> 
> Since I grow autos (which the exception of 1 Kandy Kush) I looked for a lightweight material to use as a screen. The "pest screen" material at Lowe's wouldn't have worked because the holes were too big. So I wandered around and found this sheer material that should work great. It's some kind of curtain. Cost $10.00 at Lowe's, but I bet you could find the same type of thing at Target/Walmart/Drugstore for less.
> 
> I lashed some skewers together to make them longer, stuck them in the dirt on each side of the plant, cut a square of the material and draped it over. I think this should work. I'll drape these over the plants in the evening, and remove in the morning. There was plenty of material in that one package to make one for each plant.


I like your idea!


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## Wordz (Jul 29, 2010)

So i went to the spot yesterday and I noticed on 3 plants the little bastards have bored into some stems. FUCK FUCK FUCk. All i had to spray with is neem. do i need to take the stalk off that's been invaded? will the bt kill them up inside the stem? there are little white moths on the plants and they just jump off when they get sprayed with neem and then jump right back on. also should I sevin dust the area?


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## veggiegardener (Jul 29, 2010)

We don't get borers locally. I'd leave the stem but apply Bt to the holes and the entire plant.

The tiny white moths are white flies. Ladybugs will eat their eggs, but if you have a lot of them, try neem oil or insecticidal soap to knock down their numbers.


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 29, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> No.
> 
> My last application is usually about two or three weeks before harvest. After that, I wash the girls down a couple times on warm sunny mornings to allow time for the buds to dry out.


Thanks. Is the washing down to get rid of the BT or to wash away eggs or worms or what?


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## Wordz (Jul 29, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> We don't get borers locally. I'd leave the stem but apply Bt to the holes and the entire plant.
> 
> The tiny white moths are white flies. Ladybugs will eat their eggs, but if you have a lot of them, try neem oil or insecticidal soap to knock down their numbers.


thanks so much I apply neem once or twice a week but those things jump off when they get sprayed and then come right back to the wet plants lol. That's what i wanted to hear about the stems. I'll go get bt and apply it into the holes this evening. Do you think i should get a syringe and inject some bt in from the where they entered and then maybe another inch and a half above? First time I've seen them in 4 years of outdoor.


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## pabloesqobar (Jul 29, 2010)

Thanks VG. I'm going to try your tip of rinsing the plants prior to chop. ChemoBoy, I believe the rinse is just to rinse off any remnants of BT that didn't naturally go away. Unfortunately SoCal decided not to have warm sunny mornings this year. I'm hoping that changes soon.


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 29, 2010)

pabloesqobar said:


> Thanks VG. I'm going to try your tip of rinsing the plants prior to chop. ChemoBoy, I believe the rinse is just to rinse off any remnants of BT that didn't naturally go away. Unfortunately SoCal decided not to have warm sunny mornings this year. I'm hoping that changes soon.


Thanks! I'm in San Diego and had my outdoor plants start flowering during late June when it dropped below 50 at night and was cloudy for days. What a weird year to start my first grow...lots of learning.


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## pabloesqobar (Jul 29, 2010)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> Im getting these ones in this link: http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/itemdesc.asp?ic=PCBENTRICHO&eq=&Tp=, they're alive and not eggs so it should be easier to use them.
> 
> I saw that thing too about the different species but I dont think Ill have to worry, my plants are gonna be less tall and real bushy this year, plus the way it was last year, the wasps should have plenty to do...it was a fucking infestation last year that I didnt notice till it was too late, thats one of the reasons I never finished my journal, shit got CRAZY near harvest, constant harvesting at different times, non stop trimming for those like 2 months of my life, and picking worms daily, everything was so hectic I just didnt have the time or energy to keep the journal updated, I felt bad haha but yeah it sucked really bad, still a big harvest, but so many big colas were just too fucked lol


Hey Zig, any update on the effectiveness of the wasps?


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## veggiegardener (Jul 29, 2010)

ChemoBoy said:


> Thanks. Is the washing down to get rid of the BT or to wash away eggs or worms or what?


Bt, bug shit, bird droppings, and dust.


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## pabloesqobar (Jul 29, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Bt, bug shit, bird droppings, and dust.


Makes sense. Not sure why I didn't think of doing this before now. I guess there's no concerns with spraying the plants down whilst the sun is out at this stage.


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## veggiegardener (Jul 29, 2010)

Another couple of things.

Regular bathes help strengthen stems and naturally causes the branches to spread. A sort of impromptu LST.

Plants love it.

I try to do this early in the day to avoid minor burning from a hot overhead sun, when droplets can lens sunlight.


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 30, 2010)

I'm getting close to 3 weeks since my last BT spray, and I just found two 1/4 inch budworms right there in the flowers. One had damaged a stalk but hadn't gotten in yet. Those two got two-finger insecticide with extreme prejudice. Once it cooled off in the evening, I sprayed Safer BT with a 2 tsp/gallon dilution bottom and top of leaves and misting every flower. So far it seems like the little dudes always take a bite out of a small new leaf first, even though I find them in the flowers. So I keep looking for any little hole and if I see one I get in there. 

If you have any other suggestions, please let them flow....


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## Wordz (Jul 30, 2010)

TLFrench3 said:


> well what if the plant is in a screen cage (pool side).??an down in fl?? those things everywhere??


 if it's in a screen cage it will probably keep them out.


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## TLFrench3 (Jul 30, 2010)

word hopefully.ima still check just incase lol


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## veggiegardener (Jul 30, 2010)

Bud worms aren't borers, at least, in my garden. If you see another, a few good pix might identify it. I'm not certain that Bt will work on the borers but a good pic could confirm that, one way or the other. There's only one bug that I hate worse than bud worms.

Squash Bugs. The only thing that works well against them is hand picking. I put them in a glass jar and leave it in the sun for a few days. I usually wash the jar out, and pour the buggy water on my squash plants. I can't say for certain, but that seems to deter them.(TMI? If you grow veggies, and like like squash, pumpkins, melons and cucumbers, it would be good to find out what they are. In large numbers they can make a garden look awful, and kill all the stuff mentioned.)


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 31, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Bud worms aren't borers, at least, in my garden. If you see another, a few good pix might identify it. I'm not certain that Bt will work on the borers but a good pic could confirm that, one way or the other. There's only one bug that I hate worse than bud worms./QUOTE]
> 
> That's my mistake on the budworm damage, VG. I saw damage on a soft stalk and assumed it was trying to bore in there. Here are the pix:
> 
> ...


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## veggiegardener (Jul 31, 2010)

Thanks!

Bud worm, definitely. Bt will kill that little fucker.


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 31, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Bud worm, definitely. Bt will kill that little fucker.


I sprayed yesterday. I hand misted a quart of BT solution on 6 plants, CAREFULLY. I actually think that fucked up part of the worm on the left side of the 100x picture is the BT taking it out from inside. He was barely moving. Cruel at that magnification, but I can live with myself. 

By the way, I think these pictures below might be an earlier stage of the larvae. They appeared as black dots on the smallest leaves and buds where a moth might land. They're smaller than the 1/4th the width of a fingerprint, and I couldn't get a totally sharp shot at 200x, so I thought they might just be poop. Now that I've seen the (relatively) big worm shape, I'm wondering:

















Yeah, I'm neurotic. Sue me.


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 31, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Squash Bugs. The only thing that works well against them is hand picking. I put them in a glass jar and leave it in the sun for a few days. I usually wash the jar out, and pour the buggy water on my squash plants. I can't say for certain, but that seems to deter them.(TMI? If you grow veggies, and like like squash, pumpkins, melons and cucumbers, it would be good to find out what they are. In large numbers they can make a garden look awful, and kill all the stuff mentioned.)


Oh, not to try to school you or anything, but I spent a good part of my childhood chasing squash bugs. Have you tried putting out a board or paper or something under the plants? The bugs go there at night and you can get them in the early morning before they go out to play. We mostly got them at egg stage -- made it a game and all the kids helped. Free labor ftw. I think malathion also when they got the upper hand, but that shit is dangerous. If memory serves, they eat Sevin like it's candy. Marigolds would help RIGHT BY a leaf, but you couldn't plant enough flowers to really help a big yellow squash grow. The best thing was to do what we called outrunning the bugs. We'd use a cubic meter of compost every 6 feet or so and the soil was BLACK. Once those plants got going, there wasn't a bug alive that could strip them down. You could SEE them grow. Anyway...there's some random info for you, VG. Hopefully it'll help as much as your advice has helped my buds.


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## veggiegardener (Jul 31, 2010)

Thanks, CB!

My history with squash bugs is long and painful(mostly for them).

About thirty years ago, I discovered that drenching the plants during mid day was a great way to find them.

They hate getting wet and will climb to the top of the plants once you stop watering.

After doing this about fifty times in a row, so far, I've seen only one bug, this year. He's a large smear on the walk. Last year, during a hot spell, about fifty bugs showed up, all at once.(They fly during very hot weather.) It took me a week to kill all the adults, but I only found one small group of eggs. Some years, before I retired, I lost all my squash plants not long after they started producing. No time to pick bugs.

I think this year has been so cool, they just aren't migrating as they have in the past.

I'd never set traps for them. They gather underneath like snails would? When do I "harvest" them? Time of day? 

I'll take any weapon I can get to kill them. I wax profane when discussing their futures, and ancestry.


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 31, 2010)

You love to wet those plants! 

Yeah, you just put down some slightly damp newspaper or cardboard on the ground next to the plants during the day and they may congregate under at night when it's cool. You just have to get to them early morning before it warms up enough for them to fly well. Lift and smash, or smash and lift and smash. Smashing is the important part.  Unfortunately, they don't like beer as much as snails and I don't know any other way to bait them, but YOU drinking beer helps the problem not seem so bad. If they're breeding and/or sleeping elsewhere and descending on your crops during the heat of the day, you're pretty well fucked unless you're patient and have LOTS of chasing/smashing time.


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## veggiegardener (Jul 31, 2010)

ChemoBoy said:


> You love to wet those plants!


LOL!

I guess it seems that way, but I only wet those that benefit from it.

For instance, I _never_ wet tomato or pepper plants once they start setting fruit. Calyx end rot will appear immediately if I do.

I think I started "washing" plants after reading an article in Organic Gardening a few years before I started growing Cannabis. My Grandmother washed her garden plants frequently. Living in the middle of a huge expanse of great farmland exposes everything to a lot of dust. I remember seeing the dust jump off her corn plants when the water hit them.

If you haven't tried wetting down the squash plants, maybe try it, and let me know what you think?


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## ChemoBoy (Jul 31, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> LOL!
> 
> I guess it seems that way, but I only wet those that benefit from it.
> 
> ...


I don't do veggies anymore, just stinky flowers.


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## veggiegardener (Aug 1, 2010)

A veggie garden makes it possible to burn a fatty, and deal with the munchies without going indoors. I've got Red Flame grapes, and free stone peaches getting ripe, along with figs and tomatoes and cucumbers.

I'm getting hungry!

LOL


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## dumbthumb (Aug 1, 2010)

Thankfully, knock on wood, I've not had a pest problem this year, but....
A post about annihalation with extreme prejudice brought this back to mind....
About six weeks ago, while the girls were still juveniles...
Every time I'd go out to say HI to them there's this grasshopper who won't let me get close...
He takes wings and flies just out of reach, I deal with this for about three days, trying to sneak up on him...
Out comes the Co2 BB pistol, one shot kill, complete with the thousand yard stare....

Now THAT is extreme prejudice!

(I forgot to take his picture though)


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## blower (Aug 3, 2010)

Do you guys mix neem oil and insect soap in water feedings. And foliar
What to place outdoor or other plants to keep away pests???


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## veggiegardener (Aug 4, 2010)

blower said:


> Do you guys mix neem oil and insect soap in water feedings. And foliar
> What to place outdoor or other plants to keep away pests???


No. Those things are for foliar applications.

I'd be inclined to apply them separately on different days unless label directions say otherwise.

On a couple of occasions, I've found that combining different substances can be counterproductive.


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## ChemoBoy (Aug 4, 2010)

blower said:


> Do you guys mix neem oil and insect soap in water feedings. And foliar
> What to place outdoor or other plants to keep away pests???


I'm a well-informed newbie. Here's what I do for pests outdoors. Working great -- maybe it will for you too.

Google and read everything I can read on insects that target cannabis
Read it again
Start with bleached pots and Foxfarm Ocean
Add Zho to soil as directed on package for defense against soil pests
Use a copper tape around the plant or snail pellets on soil surface; use both if you're not a cheap bastard
Examine the base of the plant and top and bottom of each leaf twice a day if it's important to you to have good bud. Three times a day if it's really important.
Azamax and SM-90 mixed according to foliar application directions every 7-10 days starting from the first sign of any bug and up to week before harvest
Safer brand BT insecticide (caterpillar killer) every three weeks up to 2-3 weeks from harvest
Safer brand organic outdoor insect killer (listed for whiteflies, aphids, etc); this is an insecticidal soap and water solution
Neem is on hand if any of these fail.
Everything is misted top and bottom of leaves.

Every night before bed I go out with a little spray bottle of OMRI organic vegetable pest spray (VERY weak solution with pyrethrins) and a flashlight. I shake the plants a little and spray everything that moves. I check a leaf or a bud randomly or check just the new growth or just damaged leaves or whatever. It's good for the soul to stand out there with your ladies in the dark. Keep in mind that if you're having trouble getting the plants to flower, some people say that flashlight could be the cause. Just a thought...

So that's what I do, but I'm really REALLY high right now, so who KNOWS what I just wrote.


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## Yaboii (Aug 4, 2010)

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## Yaboii (Aug 4, 2010)

Im using these mosquitoes nets this year ^^^ to keep the egg laying moths and butterfly off my gals! Hope it works..




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## ChemoBoy (Aug 4, 2010)

Cool idea! At night or all day?


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## Wordz (Aug 4, 2010)

so far the bt appears to be working against the borers. I got the powder bt and packed it into the holes, dusted the plants, and the area around them. That was last friday. I've only found 4 new holes since then. This morning I found one for the first time maybe an 1/8 of an inch long. After finding that I open up the stem by a different hole but there was nothing in there so that's a good sign i'm thinking. I wish a woodpecker would come visit my garden for a minute.


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## Fuhrer (Aug 13, 2010)

A worm just killed my sour cream


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## ChemoBoy (Aug 13, 2010)

Fuhrer said:


> A worm just killed my sour cream


Maybe it's your username!  Just kidding! Sorry man. Did the worm get the buds or was it a borer?


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## Wordz (Aug 14, 2010)

the bt works on borers i haven't seen any evidence of them in a week


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## LIAMGREENFINGER (Aug 14, 2010)

great growing man!!! any advice you could give a man growing outdoar in uk??? should i remove some of the big fan leaves atached to the flower tops??? let more bud get the sun????? realy could do with some advice week 3 day 5 flower was wondering if you would take look at my garden on my profile you will see the pics 3 wk 5 day !!! thanks alot wonderfull plants you have peace!!!


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## veggiegardener (Aug 14, 2010)

LIAMGREENFINGER said:


> great growing man!!! any advice you could give a man growing outdoar in uk??? should i remove some of the big fan leaves atached to the flower tops??? let more bud get the sun????? realy could do with some advice week 3 day 5 flower was wondering if you would take look at my garden on my profile you will see the pics 3 wk 5 day !!! thanks alot wonderfull plants you have peace!!!


There are better places to ask questions unrelated to bud worms.

IMO, "No!" is the answer. Opinions vary.


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## LIAMGREENFINGER (Aug 14, 2010)

great pics those worms live inside our buds???? nasty lookin buggar!!!!


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## fuck u (Aug 15, 2010)

Im fairly new 2 growing,4 yrs now (outdoor). Never even heard of them! Lmao! Just found this site 2day.people on here seem 2 be quite serious and knowledgeable , i havent been previously. Plant em and walk away kind of guy.i could use some advice on feed if anyone has any. Im using 10/52/20 bloom. Is there anything better 2 use? My plants are early and starting 2 bud alot.


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## veggiegardener (Aug 15, 2010)

fuck u said:


> Im fairly new 2 growing,4 yrs now (outdoor). Never even heard of them! Lmao! Just found this site 2day.people on here seem 2 be quite serious and knowledgeable , i havent been previously. Plant em and walk away kind of guy.i could use some advice on feed if anyone has any. Im using 10/52/20 bloom. Is there anything better 2 use? My plants are early and starting 2 bud alot.


That blend will work for flowering.


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## pabloesqobar (Aug 15, 2010)

I'm still fighting the budworms. I've been removing the little moth eggs for the past 2 mornings. And spraying with BT. It's not possible I got all of the eggs, so I'm about to find out if BT works.


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## chris chronic (Aug 15, 2010)

ive ben lucky to not have problems yet . but white flys are around .


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## fdd2blk (Aug 15, 2010)

saw my first worm a few days ago. i gotta go spray again.

i stripped all the apples off my apple tree a few weeks ago. it's in the corner of my garden and i think it was attracting a lot of moths. the apples were all full of worms.


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## veggiegardener (Aug 15, 2010)

Those worms that attack apples are a bitch. I cut down an apple tree a previous owner had left. All the fruit were full of worms. I think the eggs are layed in the calyx, making them very difficult to kill.

I'm about due to spray again, as well.


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## pb for life (Aug 18, 2010)

potroast said:


> For budworms, you should spray your plants every 3 weeks with BT, a beneficial bacteria, throughout their veg state, and the first half of flowering. That will keep the worms from growing on your plants. And that way, you don't have to spray your ripening buds.
> 
> BT will affect the taste of your bud if used too late in the season. It's just fine to wash your plants before harvest. Even my indoor plants are sometimes taken outside on harvest day and sprayed down well with a fine spray, and then dried for a couple of hours and harvested.
> 
> HTH


my plants are just starting to bud and iv found some bud worms so i wanna get atleast one spray of bt in before the buds get too big. my question is where can i buy it and how should i use it?


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## veggiegardener (Aug 19, 2010)

Follow product directions.

Safer Caterpillar Killer is available at most upscale nurseries. If they sell tomato plants, they'll have Bt. I think Ace hardware stocks it.

I usually order it on line for the best price and buy half a dozen bottles. About two years worth for me.


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## pb for life (Aug 19, 2010)

thank you veggie gardner im gonna try and find some


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## dylandestroy (Aug 21, 2010)

Rookie of the year over here. What is BT? Where can i get it? This thread has me terrified!


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## veggiegardener (Aug 21, 2010)

dylandestroy said:


> Rookie of the year over here. What is BT? Where can i get it? This thread has me terrified!


That's the point of this thread. To make newer growers realize that these things exist and MUST be addressed, at least here, in the Central Valley.

Read a few posts back and you'll find ouit where you can get it.

"Safer's Caterpillar Killer".

The first site listed on a quick Google search...

http://www.saferbrand.com/store/garden-care/5160


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## ukjw (Aug 22, 2010)

Today i noticed a tiny amount of brown gooey stuff on my top and when i scrapped it off in the rain i smeared it on my key and it looked kinda like small eggs in it...is that the beginning?


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## ukjw (Aug 22, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Might be worm droppings.


I dont have any kid of worms yet..i dont even have much of a bud going on yet....it just reminded me of frog eggs, except much smaller....after reading most this thread im kinda freaking out on this shit


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## weedboy613 (Aug 22, 2010)

I have this white powder than kills them so I dont need to worry about them, or any other bugs.


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## Majik260 (Aug 22, 2010)

how much bt spray do you guys mix or do you just follow what the bottle says.


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## ukjw (Aug 22, 2010)

weedboy613 said:


> I have this white powder than kills them so I dont need to worry about them, or any other bugs.


sevin? i have it but im afraid to sprinkle it on my plants flowers that are so fresh...i dont want it to flower over and i end up smoking it....or am i being crazy?


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## veggiegardener (Aug 22, 2010)

Majik260 said:


> how much bt spray do you guys mix or do you just follow what the bottle says.


I use about two tablespoons per gallon.

I rarely see a worm.


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## veggiegardener (Aug 22, 2010)

ukjw said:


> sevin? i have it but im afraid to sprinkle it on my plants flowers that are so fresh...i dont want it to flower over and i end up smoking it....or am i being crazy?


I wouldn't use sevin on something I will smoke or eat. I do use it when dealing with ornamental issues.


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## PURPLEPOWERPLANT (Aug 22, 2010)

ive never seen no shit like that....now i wana go check my plant out make sure them fookers arnt on there


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## Nugz209 (Aug 24, 2010)

I had the same problem last season and I found a caterpillar killer from the brand "Safer", it worked great and it says its safe to use even up to day of harvest on vegetables so I imagine it wouldnt hurt your flowers.


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## Skin420Kontrol (Aug 24, 2010)

Nugz209 said:


> I had the same problem last season and I found a caterpillar killer from the brand "Safer", it worked great and it says its safe to use even up to day of harvest on vegetables so I imagine it wouldnt hurt your flowers.


...YEp thats what I use!..it works Great and is Totally Organic!...in Breaks down in Sunlight after a Day or two..so It Won't Flavor the buds!..


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## Nugz209 (Aug 24, 2010)

Nice pics. What strand?


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## Mountainfarmer (Aug 24, 2010)

lmfao...this is too funny


cam128 said:


> If I were you and I was using a BT, I'd be sure to not only spray the crop before harvest but also water cure the buds. Once you have let them dry out off the plant for about a week you should put them in jars then add fresh water and let them sit for a few minutes in the water. Then hang them back up and when they get crisp again repeat the process. After this you can throw em in the curing jars opening them 3 times a day taking them out gently, then putting them back in, and after a few days youll have dank, water cured chemical free smoke.


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## Mrmb (Aug 25, 2010)

I am about 3-4 weeks into flower and the bud sites are definitely beginning to bulk up. I have been using the BT in powder form from Safer for the past few months, and it has been working great. My question is, what is the cutoff point with this stuff? It seems like after the buds get larger, they will suck up that powder on the sticky buds. I understand it is organic and deteriorates after a few days, but are there any side affects from putting it on sticky buds?


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## veggiegardener (Aug 25, 2010)

Mrmb said:


> I am about 3-4 weeks into flower and the bud sites are definitely beginning to bulk up. I have been using the BT in powder form from Safer for the past few months, and it has been working great. My question is, what is the cutoff point with this stuff? It seems like after the buds get larger, they will suck up that powder on the sticky buds. I understand it is organic and deteriorates after a few days, but are there any side affects from putting it on sticky buds?



Get the liquid, and make a very weak solution. Spray it as a fine mist so that it mists the leaves without penetrating the buds. After a couple days, hose the plants off. It's best to do these things early in the day, allowing the plants to dry before the heat of the day. Even after washing the plant, enough Bt will remain to protect the plants for a couple weeks, or more.


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## Mrmb (Aug 25, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Get the liquid, and make a very weak solution. Spray it as a fine mist so that it mists the leaves without penetrating the buds. After a couple days, hose the plants off. It's best to do these things early in the day, allowing the plants to dry before the heat of the day. Even after washing the plant, enough Bt will remain to protect the plants for a couple weeks, or more.


Gotcha, Thanks for the info!


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## odbsmydog (Aug 26, 2010)

anyone have any experience using spinosad to prevent caterpillers? its all i have and i dont want to have to buy bt if i dont need too...


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## Mountainfarmer (Aug 26, 2010)

Is that 2 tablespoons or two teaspoons? The bottle says 1-2 teaspoons. Just wanted to clear that up before someone smokes their plants.


veggiegardener said:


> I use about two tablespoons per gallon.
> 
> I rarely see a worm.


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## Mountainfarmer (Aug 26, 2010)

I have no idea about spinosad. I have heard some here say that is what they use. GL


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## Mountainfarmer (Aug 26, 2010)

This past monday I went out to my patch and noticed that one of my plants was not looking to hot. Upon further inspection I noticed that the plants had bud worms. After the initial panic I went down to my local hydro store and bought some BT. $25.00/8 o.z. bottle. Fucking rip off. I just found some online for $11.22. w/ free shipping. Anyway, my question for all who are experienced with using BT is: How long after using do you start to see dead catepillars? Another question I have is has anyone ever used moth balls for control? The reason I am asking is cause I used moth balls early in the season to ward off small rodents and deer. During that time I did not have any problems with moths, worms, or catepillars. peace


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## Nugz209 (Aug 26, 2010)

Your way better off using "Safer Caterpillar Killer," its organic and the bottle lasts a while, down side is it last only for 2-5 days before needing sprayed again. ( in case your not close to your plants) Its safe to use on vegetables up to the day of harvesting. I used it last year with great results and no left over flavor or ill effects to my ladies.


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## Mountainfarmer (Aug 26, 2010)

View attachment 1121576here it is chowing down!!!


CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


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## pabloesqobar (Aug 26, 2010)

Mountainfarmer, I believe mothballs are highly toxic. Not something you want around your plants. I've used BT and smoked bud from plants that were sprayed with BT - and from some that were not. I can't tell any difference. And yes, Veggiegardner explains the benefits of rinsing your plants down prior to harvest, a few pages back I believe. In any event, BT should dissipate and be gone from your bud as a result of being exposed to the outdoor elements: wind, air, sun, etc. I'd stop using it around 2 weeks prior to harvest. Unless conditions demand you spray again 1 week prior to harvest.

Oh, that link you attached doesn't work. Best of luck!


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## fdd2blk (Aug 26, 2010)

i use *1 teaspoon* per gallon.


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## big20 (Aug 27, 2010)

ive heard of people makin tea out of them b4


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## veggiegardener (Aug 27, 2010)

My bad on the amount of Bt per gallon. Stronger solutions work, but I apparently had a brain fart, regarding what's recommended. Thanks for the corrections.


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## pabloesqobar (Aug 27, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> My bad on the amount of Bt per gallon. Stronger solutions work, but I apparently had a brain fart, regarding what's recommended. Thanks for the corrections.


I've been going by the directions that came with my BT, which says to use 4 teaspoons per gallon. That works out to .5 teaspoon for my 16 ounce spray bottle. Hopefully I haven't been using 4x more than needed.


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## whietiger88101 (Aug 27, 2010)

you can go down and buy a pest sticky traps in circle your bottom brachs with one and make sure it touches the ground were the bugs try to crawl up onto you plant. come on now you do not want them bugs on your buds !


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## veggiegardener (Aug 28, 2010)

whietiger88101 said:


> you can go down and buy a pest sticky traps in circle your bottom brachs with one and make sure it touches the ground were the bugs try to crawl up onto you plant. come on now you do not want them bugs on your buds !


So how does this apply to caterpillars whose eggs are laid in the top of the plant, and don't touch the ground until they are ready to become a cocoon?

I've used tanglefoot and sticky traps. Mostly an expensive waste of time.


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## Mountainfarmer (Aug 29, 2010)

Good morning RIU, I would like to say BT works. I sprayed one application (2 teaspoons/gallon) on wenesday and on by friday I started seeing little dried up black caterpillars. BT is a beautiful thing. I have also been picking through each plant and manually removing caterpillars with a pair of long tweezers. Tonight I will spray another application of BT. One thing I noticed was that while picking through the plants, 99% of the caterpillars are tiny, like 3/16 of an inch. I believe that these are new hatchlings and the BT has killed off most of the larger caterpillars. Another thing I noticed was that I have a population of spiders on the plants. I think these are helping me control the little devils.


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## veggiegardener (Aug 29, 2010)

I encourage Spiders throughout my garden. I even catch and put them in my greenhouses. I also keep Black Widows in them in case of night visitors.(Actually, the Black Widows move in with no help from me. The other spiders will eat them if they get too numerous.)


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## Mountainfarmer (Aug 29, 2010)

I sprayed the second application tonight. two more months, then chop chop. Here are a few picks of my garden.


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## zzoomm1000 (Aug 31, 2010)

Just curious. Are there a lot of people in the 310 who are battling bud worms?

I have a white widow, 100 feet up in the air on a balcony with nothing on it to ward off insects. Its starting to swell so I'm thinking of taking preventative measures with the BT. 

But I haven't seen a bug around it all summer.


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## petersparker (Sep 1, 2010)

I found a very small little white caterpillar in one of my buds... I've also found some tiny reddish spiders, I've found and disposed of 3 of these little white guys in the last week... what to do?


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## veggiegardener (Sep 1, 2010)

Get some Bt and Safer's Insecticidal Soap. If early enough, that should take care of the problems.


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## wheezer (Sep 2, 2010)

I'm starting to get the little buggers too dang it! I'm gonna start the BT tomorrow evening. Most of my stuff only look like they're about 3 weeks in, but I just hate spraying anything now. I'm hearing here that I'm safe up to 2 weeks, that will give me plenty of time to work on em'. So far only a couple on 1 plant, and I sprayed organic tea on them all through veg which is supposed to help and I believe it did. Th eplant I found them on was the Super Silver Haze that started budding first, and really only looks about 3 weeks ou tops, but I could let it go longer if I can get the bugs off......Pray for me guys!


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## veggiegardener (Sep 2, 2010)

Spray the Bt thoroughly, and then light misting until a couple weeks before harvest.

A dead give away that a worm is in a bud is the sudden appearance of a single dead leaf in an otherwise healthy appearing bud. Kill the worm, and remove the molded parts for best results.


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## okayimreloaded (Sep 2, 2010)

i heard ladybugs are good for pests


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## veggiegardener (Sep 2, 2010)

okayimreloaded said:


> i heard ladybugs are good for pests


Not worms, as a rule. They're often bigger than a Ladybug.


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## jethead (Sep 2, 2010)

Anybody ever use Cpt. Jack's Deadbug brew?


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## odbsmydog (Sep 3, 2010)

so does anybody know anything about spinosad? the people at the shop says it will work to kill or prevent catapillers but I dont wannt risk using it if I need to use BT instead..


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## ChemoBoy (Sep 3, 2010)

This is what a budworm does to the top of a cola (in this case the top cola of Odele). I've opened the bud where there was ONE funky looking fan leaf and a brown calyx or two. He was in the middle eating. You can see the worm at the top still sticking to the bud, and the light brown pebble-looking 'dirt' in the middle is budworm shit. Little fuckers.

btw, I used BT every 3 weeks throughout the grow starting about 3 weeks into veg. Also used Azamax mixed with SM-90 every 7-10 days, picked off everything that moved 1-2 times a day, and used OMRI insecticides for spot spraying of things that moved at night when I checked on the plants before bed. Still, by the time I got to the end of my grow, because I held off on all insecticides for the last 2 weeks, I had tiny worms that did no damage and a few like this that took out big buds.


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## jethead (Sep 3, 2010)

Spinoside is what is in Cpt. Jack's. I used it last night and it worked well with no smell.


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## Milesmkd (Sep 5, 2010)

I'd just get bt


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## veggiegardener (Sep 5, 2010)

ChemoBoy said:


> This is what a budworm does to the top of a cola (in this case the top cola of Odele). I've opened the bud where there was ONE funky looking fan leaf and a brown calyx or two. He was in the middle eating. You can see the worm at the top still sticking to the bud, and the light brown pebble-looking 'dirt' in the middle is budworm shit. Little fuckers.
> 
> btw, I used BT every 3 weeks throughout the grow starting about 3 weeks into veg. Also used Azamax mixed with SM-90 every 7-10 days, picked off everything that moved 1-2 times a day, and used OMRI insecticides for spot spraying of things that moved at night when I checked on the plants before bed. Still, by the time I got to the end of my grow, because I held off on all insecticides for the last 2 weeks, I had tiny worms that did no damage and a few like this that took out big buds.


Sometimes, no matter how hard you try, they find a way...

Caterpillars are just tough. In my garden, if I miss even part of a bud, I'll probably get a worm. I take great care to cover everything.


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## Raptured (Sep 6, 2010)

I have never had bud worms. I guess I am a lucky guy. Are they in New England or like out west?


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## deemd (Sep 7, 2010)

wondering if anyone has pictures of the eggs. I got those bastards and have been checking daily, curious are the black/brown sand grained type things the eggs or there shit.


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## pabloesqobar (Sep 7, 2010)

deemd said:


> wondering if anyone has pictures of the eggs. I got those bastards and have been checking daily, curious are the black/brown sand grained type things the eggs or there shit.


Here's some pics of them on last season's plant. It is common for them to be on the underside of the tiny leaves around the bud. They will also be right in the buds themselves. They are usually white. I believe the dark grainy stuff is worm poo.


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## marcu5 (Sep 7, 2010)

first time poster, my crop is currently being destroyed by these little critters. 5 weeks into flowering and i'm going to harvest early to avoid losing the entire crop. i purchased BT spray a week ago but it was too little too late. even the plants that appeared to be fine a few days ago are being eaten from the inside out today. 

question, what methods could i take to avoid bugs eating my plants during the drying/curing process? also, could water curing help drown the caterpillars and remove their eggs?


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## bicycle racer (Sep 8, 2010)

this season since the onset of flower i have sprayed once weekly with spinosad and bt full and total coverage i see many eggs but not one live worm. spinosad in particular is wonderful no smell no taste organic harmless to mammals and most good bugs same with bt both very safe. i soak a mosquito dunk in a gallon of water for a week or so and add a few ounces of that to my spinosad mix n o smell or taste is affected this way. the caterpillars have no chance of survival as soon as they hatch there eating bt/spinosad also i have lacewing eggs all over those hatch and eat thrips and caterpillar eggs but the bt and spinosad dont kill them its perfect. neem and pyrethrum suck and fuck up your plants do not use in flower. spinosad/bt mix weekly up to 1 week of harvest is the way to go imo.


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## bicycle racer (Sep 8, 2010)

left untreated they will destroy healthy plants real fast.


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## odbsmydog (Sep 8, 2010)

I'm using a hose end sprayer from ace hardware that doesnt let me measure very accuratly. if i use a little too much BT or spinosad will it hurt anything?


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## bill avoider (Sep 8, 2010)

what is bt and where can i get it


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## DontKn0wM3 (Sep 8, 2010)

This Thread Rocks! I am also battleing these bud killers! I have still seen the damage but then i see dead caterpillars on the ground and on leaves. These things are getting so big and they have to be high as hell . I wonder if you bread them let them eat the trees and then dehydrate them and smoke them would you get high? LOL It would be legal to transport dead worms. 
Ifi have found a bit of solace in battling these buggers it would be that i pick off the deadend area from the buds and you can sample your shit then because its so dry. again i say LOL


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## pothead31 (Sep 8, 2010)

ive always grown outdoor and ive never had a problem with them i guess im just lucky


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## pothead31 (Sep 8, 2010)

2 much of anything will harm your plants so u mite want 2 measure from now on


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## veggiegardener (Sep 9, 2010)

pothead31 said:


> ive always grown outdoor and ive never had a problem with them i guess im just lucky


Here, in California, everyone eventually sees them. I didn't see them until my third season.


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## StoneyC (Sep 9, 2010)

hopefully they dont come around here. i had a pretty big spider mite problem indoors but have been fortunate enough not to run into any outdoor pests. i just loaded my garden with lady bugs and they seem to handle everything for me just fine


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## odbsmydog (Sep 9, 2010)

odbsmydog said:


> I'm using a hose end sprayer from ace hardware that doesnt let me measure very accuratly. if i use a little too much BT or spinosad will it hurt anything?


anybody know?


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## JayTrinity (Sep 9, 2010)

to the topic OP Poster, are the red hairs in the photo symptoms?
Some of my buds have long pink hairs but no eggs or anything.

first timer by the way, assuming red hairs are good?


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## veggiegardener (Sep 10, 2010)

odbsmydog said:


> anybody know?


Bt is harmless to the plant and us.


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## DontKn0wM3 (Sep 10, 2010)

I used the BT on my big girls that were under attack last week and i have not seen anymore damage or bud worms (thank God) Things are nasty! I have another grow site that until yeterday i was using this 3 in 1 organic spray . But after what i saw yesterday , I sprayed the shit out of all 9 females with BT. I had to clip a whole bud off and when i got back here to go through it , i found 16 tiny hatchlings getting high off my shit. They were introduced to the fire ants.


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## Outdoorgreen (Sep 10, 2010)

i the last time i grew outdoors through away almost a pnd due to those bastards.
I have been spraying them with stuff i have but i am going to 77 hydro neck week and picking up stuff just for catapillars. just saw a very very small one tonight and started freaking out. I sprayed the shit out of all my plants.


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## anomolies (Sep 11, 2010)

Did anyone ever figure out what this strain was in the opening post? I'd sure like to grow it:

https://www.rollitup.org/attachments/outdoor-growing/190607d1221114030-yeah-its-bud-worm-season-picture-12.jpghttps://www.rollitup.org/attachments/outdoor-growing/190609d1221114030t-yeah-its-bud-worm-season-picture-14.png


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## CultivationArt (Sep 11, 2010)

yea i got those fuckers, what do i do, i dont want it to get worse


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## veggiegardener (Sep 12, 2010)

CultivationArt said:


> yea i got those fuckers, what do i do, i dont want it to get worse


C'mon Dude!

Read back a bit!

Bt is the ticket.


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## Mountainfarmer (Sep 12, 2010)

right now those caterpillars are chowing on your buds cause your to lazy to read a few pages of this thread. GL


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## DANKY17 (Sep 12, 2010)

heard to mix and then strain chewing tobacco with water to make a "tobacco tea", and spray that on the plant to kill caterpillars. 

Has anybody done this? and Will this work?


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## veggiegardener (Sep 13, 2010)

DANKY17 said:


> heard to mix and then strain chewing tobacco with water to make a "tobacco tea", and spray that on the plant to kill caterpillars.
> 
> Has anybody done this? and Will this work?


No, but you might get a nicotine buzz.


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## veggiegardener (Sep 13, 2010)

OK, the best way to deal with bud worms(caterpillars) is with Bt. Bacillus thurengiensis. Caterpillar Killer is what its called. Easily available for about $12. Sold anywhere that sells tomato plants. (It kills tomato horn worms, and pretty much all caterpillars, so use it sparingly. Butterflies are important.)

EVERYTHING else is less effective, if you figure in toxicity to US.


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## ChemoBoy (Sep 13, 2010)

Hey VG, just wanted to catch up with you on the subject. I harvested my six plants and as I harvested the budworms got worse, because I started harvest about 2 weeks after the last BT (didn't wanna push it) and finished 4 or so weeks after because of the different strains. Bottom line is that I got bigger and bigger worms as I went, which tells me the BT wiped them out, but the hundreds of moths/butterflies that we used to LOVE dropped fresh ones. I think they also dropped lots of eggs that were on the buds when I harvested, because as the buds dried, tiny worms would drop from the buds as they hung in the closet, on little lines of silk. They are about 3 mm long and easy to kill because they just hang there. My theory is that they only like live plant material and they are programmed to attach a line and bungee jump to another branch if they find themselves in a bad place to eat. Good news for me, because I only lost a few buds and I lost NOTHING during drying. But I killed a LOT of worms. Next time, BT every 3 weeks MINIMUM from the start outside. Don't know if you saw my pictures a few weeks back in the thread, but I got some good shots of the actual worms going at it.

-hal


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## sonofnothing (Sep 13, 2010)

CrazyChester said:


> If anyone has any idea of the strains I'm growing I'd sure like to know.


i sure would.. those are some pink ass buds man and HUGE ass colas... damnit!


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## Elgrande (Sep 14, 2010)

I harvested my buds today and I found a bunch of worms inside, any chance of getting rid of them without hand picking them?


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## Elgrande (Sep 14, 2010)

similar to this f#&ker?


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## tuxedotoker (Sep 14, 2010)

Kind of random question, does anyone smoke the bud worms? Yes smoke. A lady friend of mine mentioned this to me, All I did was look at her with a confused look. This is the first time hearing this sort of thing. Sound gross acually. 
Anyone do this? 

-tux


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## veggiegardener (Sep 14, 2010)

tuxedotoker said:


> Kind of random question, does anyone smoke the bud worms? Yes smoke. A lady friend of mine mentioned this to me, All I did was look at her with a confused look. This is the first time hearing this sort of thing. Sound gross acually.
> Anyone do this?
> 
> -tux


Don't do it. Bad taste and a waste of time.


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## anomolies (Sep 14, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Don't do it. Bad taste and a waste of time.


haha he's done it before! What about rolling the worms around in thc and soaking in tequila?


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## dumbthumb (Sep 14, 2010)

I have been invaded by these little buggers too, first only two, so I inquired, then read the last fiteen pages or so of this thread, went out and found some BT concentrate, and gave all the girls a nice soaking bath in it. Did it late in the eve as the sunset, yet still enough warmth to dry everything out. I must admit I did go a little heavy handed on the spray!

Sure hope this works, the next day I found two more, hanging out atop leaves, one in the same area I found the first ones, and one on my precious kush girl, who's just about to start the pre-harvest flush. Now I'm out there every fifteen minutes, but they are hard to spot, little green bastages about 3/4" long.

Are there any sure-fire signs of BT's effectiveness? Anybody??


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## pabloesqobar (Sep 14, 2010)

dumbthumb said:


> Are there any sure-fire signs of BT's effectiveness? Anybody??


Good question. I think my 1st spray with BT was after I found the eggs. Definitely too late. In any event, I have found several damaged buds, but I have yet to find the actual worms, with the exception of one. Last year I could easily find the worm when digging through the damage. Perhaps this is evidence of a sign of BT's effectiveness? I'm hoping they ate enough to cause a bit of damage and then died. The one worm I did locate was looking poorly, presumably from eating BT tainted bud.

For now I'm content to blame myself for not applying the BT sooner. There's always next year.


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## blower (Sep 14, 2010)

preventing this pests in outdoor is the most important. therefore precautions are the main thing. when plants are young in veg stage. give them anything that is good to prevent pests. when they get older and the soil already has all this killer soap shit. then plant wont really need help from us but do its own thing.
if budding best thing is, water some lemon juice, or wipe leafs off with a leaf shiner, or wet paper towels.


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## Mountainfarmer (Sep 14, 2010)

Yea, when looking through your plants for caterpillars you should see dead caterpillars here and there. They usually turn a blackish color and dry up. Wait at least 48 hours for results. Make sure you saturate the plant. I spray mine with a garden sprayer, it has a two gallon tank, 3 foot hose, and a wand. With this setup I can spray a ten foot plant in about 5 minutes. Like I said, saturate the buds. Do it in the morning so the buds can dry out. peace


dumbthumb said:


> I have been invaded by these little buggers too, first only two, so I inquired, then read the last fiteen pages or so of this thread, went out and found some BT concentrate, and gave all the girls a nice soaking bath in it. Did it late in the eve as the sunset, yet still enough warmth to dry everything out. I must admit I did go a little heavy handed on the spray!
> 
> Sure hope this works, the next day I found two more, hanging out atop leaves, one in the same area I found the first ones, and one on my precious kush girl, who's just about to start the pre-harvest flush. Now I'm out there every fifteen minutes, but they are hard to spot, little green bastages about 3/4" long.
> 
> Are there any sure-fire signs of BT's effectiveness? Anybody??


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## fdd2blk (Sep 14, 2010)

just hit mine this morning. i walked away leaving them dripping. i love foggy mornings.


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## tuxedotoker (Sep 14, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Don't do it. Bad taste and a waste of time.


Absolutely not! I would never do such thing, just throwing it out there. I was dumfounded when she told me.


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## seems1 (Sep 14, 2010)

dammit just found some worms on my buds. this is my first outdoor grow. i cut the damaged buds off and killed the worms.  

now where can i buy BT??? whats the full name of this product??


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## ChemoBoy (Sep 14, 2010)

seems1 said:


> dammit just found some worms on my buds. this is my first outdoor grow. i cut the damaged buds off and killed the worms.
> 
> now where can i buy BT??? whats the full name of this product??


Google "safer caterpillar killer"; Home Depot also has one called Thuricide which I have, but I've only used the Safer brand because that's what I opened first and it lasts FOREVER. Look at the ingredients of any caterpillar killer in any garden shop for BT "Bacillus thuringiensis".

Edit: if you don't have a good misting sprayer, at a minimum get one of those Home Depot spray bottles or equivalent that hold 32 oz (quart). Be sure you spray top and bottom and buds and EVERTHING, and in the morning before the bright sun hits them so the water drops don't lens the sunlight and burn your plant. I usually spray around 6 in the evening, but I use a light mist so that I don't risk mold. If you do it in the morning you can soak em with that shit. The bacteria will kill the worms within 3 days either way. If you already have worms when you spray, spray again in TWO weeks and then spray every three weeks after that or if you see worms or if you have lots of butterflies. The bacteria dies under UV and will be completely gone within 3 days outside. You can actually eat it safely, but why?  I alternate every 7-10 days with Azamax (OMRI organic) and SM-90 for other bugs as well, but it kills caterpillars also but only if they eat enough plant matter that has Azamax on it. Gets the very young ones that have just hatched very reliably. Next summer, I'm also going to use mosquito netting on my plants at night because the moths and butterflies were like a CLOUD around my plants sometimes.


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## seems1 (Sep 14, 2010)

ChemoBoy said:


> Google "safer caterpillar killer"; Home Depot also has one called Thuricide which I have, but I've only used the Safer brand because that's what I opened first and it lasts FOREVER. Look at the ingredients of any caterpillar killer in any garden shop for BT "Bacillus thuringiensis".


thanks for the info. should it be safe to spray? i got like 2 weeks left till harvest.


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## ChemoBoy (Sep 14, 2010)

seems1 said:


> thanks for the info. should it be safe to spray? i got like 2 weeks left till harvest.


Check my edit above. You can spray up to 3 days before harvest. I played it safe and didn't spray for the last 2 weeks and I had a dozen or so very small worms, the ones that hatched right after the BT killed the previous population. It would have saved me maybe a half ounce out of a final harvest of about a pound of dried bud if I had sprayed once more. Definitely worth it.


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## seems1 (Sep 14, 2010)

ChemoBoy said:


> Check my edit above. You can spray up to 3 days before harvest. I played it safe and didn't spray for the last 2 weeks and I had a dozen or so very small worms, the ones that hatched right after the BT killed the previous population. It would have saved me maybe a half ounce out of a final harvest of about a pound of dried bud if I had sprayed once more. Definitely worth it.


ok bought some BT thuricide how much do i add to a 32oz. spray bottle?


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## pabloesqobar (Sep 14, 2010)

seems1 said:


> ok bought some BT thuricide how much do i add to a 32oz. spray bottle?


I've only gone by the directions that came with my BT. It calls for 4 teaspoons per gallon, unless you're growing in an indoor greenhouse in which case you would use 2 teaspoons per gallon. That equates to 1 teaspoon or 1/2 teaspoon, respectively, for 32 ounces. 

Others on here use less and seem to have good results. I'm not sure if all BT is of the same strength, tho.


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## ChemoBoy (Sep 14, 2010)

seems1 said:


> ok bought some BT thuricide how much do i add to a 32oz. spray bottle?


I add 1 tsp / quart (32 oz) if I already see worms, and then drop back to 1/2 tsp / quart for maintenance spray every 2-3 weeks. But be sure you check the label. My bottles are between 12% and 15% active ingredient (BT). If your percentage is double that, use half as much as I use. If it's half that, use double what I use. Make sense?

Edit: oh, and remember you're spraying a fine mist with millions of BACTERIA. Don't spray it on yourself, don't breath it, wear long sleeves and gloves, etc. It's a good idea for just about anything you spray on a plant, even when it's organic. There doesn't seem to be any real injury that comes from ingesting this stuff, but do YOU wanna try it?


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## seems1 (Sep 14, 2010)

ChemoBoy said:


> I add 1 tsp / quart (32 oz) if I already see worms, and then drop back to 1/2 tsp / quart for maintenance spray every 2-3 weeks. But be sure you check the label. My bottles are between 12% and 15% active ingredient (BT). If your percentage is double that, use half as much as I use. If it's half that, use double what I use. Make sense?
> 
> Edit: oh, and remember you're spraying a fine mist with millions of BACTERIA. Don't spray it on yourself, don't breath it, wear long sleeves and gloves, etc. It's a good idea for just about anything you spray on a plant, even when it's organic. There doesn't seem to be any real injury that comes from ingesting this stuff, but do YOU wanna try it?


good looking out on the info. chemoboy  i'll be waking up early to spray my girls.


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## ak47skunk (Sep 14, 2010)

what about sevindust? would that work?


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## marcu5 (Sep 15, 2010)

i've found my remedy to this worm problem and it's spiders. there's a couple of small and huge garden spiders that are now killing everything in or around my babies. i'm kind of scared of harvesting now because i'm horrified of these huge spiders, but it's a good pay off


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## Elgrande (Sep 15, 2010)

Cut one all the buds off a main stem, went through them by hand, got some big green worms, then put the buds on wax paper and into the microwave for 25 seconds.

Whatever worms were still inside - all came out.

Used a magnifying glass and checked the buds - nothing left.

I did notice very few eggs - is that a big deal?


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## bud good (Sep 15, 2010)

hey bro cali gets worms alot you do what you can while ther growing when you harvest put your buds in the microwave for 10 or 15 seconds to make sure the pests are dead they will munch it up in storage. for the most part you will get strong weed just pretty harsh stuff after all this.


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## bud good (Sep 15, 2010)

ak47skunk said:


> what about sevindust? would that work?


I also new a friend who used malithion long time ago alot of these things work but does alter the weed harsh


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## fdd2blk (Sep 15, 2010)

bud good said:


> hey bro cali gets worms alot you do what you can while ther growing when you harvest put your buds in the microwave for 10 or 15 seconds to make sure the pests are dead they will munch it up in storage. for the most part you will get strong weed just pretty harsh stuff after all this.


clever idea.


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## olga1995 (Sep 15, 2010)

I am in the east bay, could you tell me please how long untill I harvest my plants?View attachment 1157887
I am growing outside first time
thanks


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## odbsmydog (Sep 15, 2010)

I definitely hate the bud worms we get here. These little bastards are the culprits too, I know it! Caught some in the act today, gonna hit them hard with BT and spinosad tonight!

I'm not sure what kind of moth they are, I believe someone said it on an early page in this thread. these are the ones I always see in my garden. hope these pics help!


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## marcu5 (Sep 16, 2010)

i've had great success with garden spiders and BT spray. only problem with the BT spray is it isn't immediate. it took me around 3-4 spray downs over the span of a week to notice a resistance. however, once a few garden spiders took the territory, they've been non existent. complete with a few worms, moths and butterflies caught in spiderwebs


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## Bynk (Sep 16, 2010)

I recently harvested a Frisian Dew that evidently was full of worms. They were not obvious during trimming.

When I checked on the 3rd morning of hanging there were flying things all around the now crispy hangings. I assume they were the now matured worms. They had devoured the dry leafy material on several hanging buds. After I brought them down and put them in a bowl for further trimming, several white worms crawled out of the bowl.

What do you guys suggest I do in future encounters to remove the bugs *after* harvest?

With vegetables, I usually drown them to kill any bugs.

Thanks


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## Elgrande (Sep 16, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> clever idea.


surprsingly enough, even after 25 seconds in the microwave, didn't manage to kill them all - gave them another blast of 20 seconds, hope they don't come back!


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## slabhead (Sep 16, 2010)

[video=youtube;SvFsbwd-g-0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvFsbwd-g-0[/video]


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## sonofnothing (Sep 16, 2010)

what is that setup you got there with the spray wand?


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## odbsmydog (Sep 16, 2010)

dude you sound creepy!!


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## Awill1818 (Sep 16, 2010)

Sound like your from North Carolina. And thats a good thing.


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## Apadravya (Sep 16, 2010)

I have these worms/caterpillars. Just noticed 2day. FML.!!!


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## seems1 (Sep 16, 2010)

Apadravya said:


> I have these worms/caterpillars. Just noticed 2day. FML.!!!


it sucks to find those suckers mf'ers


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## plhkarma (Sep 17, 2010)

Hi all. We're 1st time outdoor growers(next project will be indoor). We have 7 girls of unknown strains. All bagseed.We've spent hours reading the different threads and educating ourselves. 
Our problem is not being sure of the best thing for the caterpillars. We haven't seen any ....yet. We couldn't find BT anywhere around here. So yesterday we picked up Sevin Concentrate. We wanted something on hand just in case.
So the questions are: has anyone ever tried it....can you spray directly onto the bud....does it affect the flavor of the bud....would you give it a water bath after harvest....how much time should there be between application and harvest? Sorry for so many questions, but we really want to do this right...well, as right as we can at this point. 
Thanks for any advice. We would never have made it this far with the girls without the help of all you kind folks


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## ChemoBoy (Sep 17, 2010)

plhkarma said:


> We couldn't find BT anywhere around here. So yesterday we picked up Sevin Concentrate.


BT is available fucking everywhere. Google it. Home Depot and Lowes carry it. Look for a little bottle about 4 inches high with the ingredient BT (Bacillus Thurigen...whatever). EVERY garden shop that I've checked has it listed as worm/caterpillar killer. Using Sevin is a bad idea unless you've decided you want to smoke or eat Sevin dust. Don't put shit on there that you don't know will dissipate quickly and/or that's not gonna affect your taste/health.



ak47skunk said:


> what about sevindust? would that work?


Dumb idea...shit's poison to you too.



Elgrande said:


> I did notice very few eggs - is that a big deal?


Eggs taste bad and they will hatch during drying. In my case, little worms dropped down on silk threads and I smashed them. Get all of the eggs you can...they're usually in bunches together.



bud good said:


> hey bro cali gets worms alot you do what you can while ther growing when you harvest put your buds in the microwave for 10 or 15 seconds to make sure the pests are dead they will munch it up in storage. for the most part you will get strong weed just pretty harsh stuff after all this.


Microwave? Harsh is a gentle word for the way that shit's gonna taste. Take a microscope and look at trichomes, then microwave that shit and look at it again. In my case, the worms I missed or the eggs that hatched in the drying closet starting crawling or dropping out of the buds FAST. Within a few days they are all gone/smashed. They don't even go to the floor...they just hang waiting for you to smash them.




odbsmydog said:


> I definitely hate the bud worms we get here. These little bastards are the culprits too, I know it! Caught some in the act today, gonna hit them hard with BT and spinosad tonight!
> 
> I'm not sure what kind of moth they are, I believe someone said it on an early page in this thread. these are the ones I always see in my garden. hope these pics help!


Definitely seen these little fuckers. You can rig stakes and mosquito netting to keep them off somewhat at least at night, but they're gonna get in there somehow. 



marcu5 said:


> i've had great success with garden spiders and BT spray. only problem with the BT spray is it isn't immediate. it took me around 3-4 spray downs over the span of a week to notice a resistance. however, once a few garden spiders took the territory, they've been non existent. complete with a few worms, moths and butterflies caught in spiderwebs


Spiders helped me out big time also. I also found that when I put a fake owl by the plants to protect them from birds when young, my hummingbirds stopped coming around and my whitefly population boomed. Took away the owl, hummingbirds came back and whiteflies were all but gone. Birds and spiders are our friends. 


Also remember that if you are inspecting your buds every day, you'll usually see the spot where the worm went in the bud. They leave a little brown circle. If you get a syringe with BT solution and stick it in there and squirt the solution, you'll kill the worm without fucking up the bud. The plant will fix itself in a week or two. The worm usually is very nice about it and crawls OUT and dies on a leaf or the ground. 

Someone said it takes 3 days to kill them, btw. YES, but they stop eating the first day. The BT gets in their digestive system and starts eating it, so they can't eat. Eventually they die from starvation and internal organ death. I love that part.


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## Apadravya (Sep 17, 2010)

Great post.!! I hate caterpillars. Totally munched my buds.. Hope I can recoup a good amount..


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## odbsmydog (Sep 17, 2010)

Is it true if you use tap water with BT it will kill the bacteria? I have been using hose water the whole time. has it not been working?


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## Apadravya (Sep 17, 2010)

okay.. so i found about 30 of these suckers today.. i sprayed my plants down with SAFER caterpillar killer and clipped off all the damaged buds. so bummed. i figured i didn't wanna keep the nugs that had tons of caterpoop on em. i feel better knowing my plants are treated and hopefully will be caterpillar/worm/insect free in 3 days or less.


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## odbsmydog (Sep 17, 2010)

View attachment 1162723View attachment 1162724View attachment 1162725View attachment 1162726

*edit*I figured I would copy my post from my grow journal and put it in this thread since this one will be around for years I'm sure*edit*

My caterpillar killing kit. today they got pounded with spinosad. in 2 or 3 days I'll hit them hard with bt. then rotate on and off every few days until the last week. hopefully I wont have the same bud worm problem I had last year!


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## blower (Sep 17, 2010)

green caterpillar with black dots
so early rinse off with water?
in plants feeding should i add neem and the caterpillar soap?


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## seems1 (Sep 18, 2010)

ive been checking through my buds manually should that be a problem? i think id rather damage thc a lil rather than more of my buds dying bcus of the caterpillars.


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## Apadravya (Sep 18, 2010)

seems1 said:


> ive been checking through my buds manually should that be a problem? i think id rather damage thc a lil rather than more of my buds dying bcus of the caterpillars.


No doubt. I am manually checking my buds from here on out. My widows buds are huge and a lil bushy and there is no way to tell they're being attacked unless u manually pick thru them pulling buds back to expose the stem/branch. No doubt, I cut down like a pounds worth of damaged good yesterday. Not a happy camper.. !!!!


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## techno (Sep 18, 2010)

stinky cheese


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## odbsmydog (Sep 18, 2010)

is there caterpillars on that bud or something? cause I think you might be in the wrong thread...

maybe you were looking for this one. *post your outdoor flowers here!*


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## ChemoBoy (Sep 18, 2010)

odbsmydog said:


> Is it true if you use tap water with BT it will kill the bacteria? I have been using hose water the whole time. has it not been working?


I would NEVER put tap water on my ladies. That shit comes out of the faucet with a TDS (total dissolved solids) of almost 700 for me. Reverse Osmosis (RO) water ends up about 35 TDS, and Distilled is 0, just to give you a comparison. Most of that is shit you don't want your plants to have. Including chlorine and chloramine in most places, which, YES, kill BT and most other bacteria. Get the cheapest purified water you can find or get a simple Brita-type filter to get rid of chlorine. Get a RO filter or buy RO water from a fish store or a WATER store; that's even better. You're bud will thank you. Literally.



seems1 said:


> ive been checking through my buds manually should that be a problem? i think id rather damage thc a lil rather than more of my buds dying bcus of the caterpillars.


I do a lot of microscopic (100-400x) video of my flowers, and I can assure you that touching them fucks up the potency. The trichomes crush and stick to whatever touches them. Although to be honest, I've vaped some of the buds that I had to shred to get out worms, and they were potent as hell. Just not as much as the regular buds. You might wanna consider just getting a 60x+ magnifier of some kind and examining the buds that way. I've never had a problem finding out where they went in. They don't crawl in, they EAT their way in.


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## doublejj (Sep 18, 2010)

Hey guy's I just wanted to take a moment & remind people again at this time, about physical barriers. & no, I'm not just being a smart-ass, I just wanted to remind that there are alternatives to spraying.

I have 14ft'rs growing in my backyard this year, there is no way I could inspect/spray everything. 

Because I have them inside this $300 greenhouse, I don't have any bud worm problems. The mesh walls keep the moths/butterflies at bay.

I'm just saying

peace
doublejj


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## Apadravya (Sep 18, 2010)

^ definitely a chill idea but i don't think that would look very low pro in my backyard.. but i know it would work..!!!


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## ChemoBoy (Sep 18, 2010)

doublejj said:


> Hey guy's I just wanted to take a moment & remind people again at this time, about physical barriers. & no, I'm not just being a smart-ass, I just wanted to remind that there are alternatives to spraying.
> 
> I have 14ft'rs growing in my backyard this year, there is no way I could inspect/spray everything.
> 
> ...


Where'd you get your greenhouse materials? 300 is cheap!


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## doublejj (Sep 18, 2010)

It looks more low pro than a 14ft marijuana plant!

You get the materials from Costco & Home Depot, click on my signature below

peace
doublejj


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## fdd2blk (Sep 18, 2010)

i'd still spray.


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## Apadravya (Sep 18, 2010)

okay.. i'm a bit confused.. i sprayed the other day.. manually pulled out like 30 f'in caterpillars.. went thru most all my buds, pulled a crapload of damaged buds, and hoped for the best.. i have been away from home most of the day and just came home.. it's late, dark and i went outside with a flashlight and i was checking my buds and noticed some new dead buds... i dug thru and there was a caterpillar. then another.. then another.. wut the hell do i have to do..????


it sux cuz they didn't touch the main colas before but tonight they killed the very top of two huge colas... WTF..??


FML.


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## dylandestroy (Sep 19, 2010)

is BT commonly found? where should i go to get it?


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## ChemoBoy (Sep 19, 2010)

dylandestroy said:


> is BT commonly found? where should i go to get it?


Dude, you gotta at least read the thread a little first...jeez...

Google "safer caterpillar killer" to buy online; Home Depot also has one called Thuricide which I have, but I've only used the Safer brand because that's what I opened first and it lasts FOREVER. Look at the ingredients of any caterpillar killer in any garden shop for BT "Bacillus thuringiensis". Look for a little bottle about 4 inches high with the ingredient BT. EVERY garden shop that I've checked has it listed as worm/caterpillar killer.


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## odbsmydog (Sep 19, 2010)

doublejj said:


> Hey guy's I just wanted to take a moment & remind people again at this time, about physical barriers. & no, I'm not just being a smart-ass, I just wanted to remind that there are alternatives to spraying.
> 
> I have 14ft'rs growing in my backyard this year, there is no way I could inspect/spray everything.
> 
> ...


It's super hot where I live so I would get a bad spidermite / powdery mildew problem if I had a greenhouse like that.. Looks like it works great for you though!


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## doublejj (Sep 19, 2010)

I live in Sac, it get's over 100 all summer. This greenhouse has mesh walls, air just flows thru.

peace
doublejj


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## odbsmydog (Sep 20, 2010)

wow, I'm suprised. even with the airflow it seems like you would get spidermites and PM easier. I living in Redding so it's a little hotter but not a whole lot and the plants I have just on the side of my house get less airflow then the ones in my backyard and they sometimes get mites. the ones that have full access to the wind never do though. either way I want one of those carports to use a makeshift greenhouse for the rain!


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## veggiegardener (Sep 20, 2010)

doublejj said:


> Hey guy's I just wanted to take a moment & remind people again at this time, about physical barriers. & no, I'm not just being a smart-ass, I just wanted to remind that there are alternatives to spraying.
> 
> I have 14ft'rs growing in my backyard this year, there is no way I could inspect/spray everything.
> 
> ...


That's a great point. Even though my greenhouse vents are unscreened, I rarely see a worm in them.

I do spray the plants lightly if I find a butterfly inside.


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## doublejj (Sep 20, 2010)

So far I've been lucky, I've never had any bud worms inside the greenhouse.

Spyder mites? Well, that's another story. I lost 2 plants to Spyder Mites earlyer this season.

And they work great for rain

peace
doublejj


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## odbsmydog (Sep 20, 2010)

yeah, when there is restricted airflow I always get those little bastard mites, that's why I just spray with BT for cat's. then again, one bad enough storm and I could lose everything...


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## A.J. (Sep 21, 2010)

Im in Redding, too. Just dosed my Cali-o and Purple K with BT. The worms dont like my Sativa(sp) plants.


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## A.J. (Sep 21, 2010)

Giant Citronella candle (gallon size) is working for me so far.


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## AFU420 (Sep 21, 2010)

Who knows how to keep the pink hairs when harvesting and curing?.. first year with pink hairs..


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## ChemoBoy (Sep 21, 2010)

AFU420 said:


> Who knows how to keep the pink hairs when harvesting and curing?.. first year with pink hairs..


You want good bud or pink hairs? Harvest when your trichomes are right. Hairs are just trich holders.


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## odbsmydog (Sep 21, 2010)

AFU420 said:


> Who knows how to keep the pink hairs when harvesting and curing?.. first year with pink hairs..


This doesn't belong in this thread. it's a thread to help people with bud worm (caterpillar) problems. 


Anyone else been using spinosad and BT this year?


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## zigzagzak (Sep 21, 2010)

heynow riu. I'm in need of some help. i saw a bud worm on my purple gorilla yesterday. and then this morning i found 2 more on my grape ape plant. So i came here and started reading this thread. About 8 pages in I said oh shit i better do something fast. So i ran outback mixed up a gallon of azamax and drenched my 8 beautiful girls. Then, soon as I was finished, i remembered how just 2 days ago i hurried and put stakes in the ground and hung a tarp over my patch, because I was warned i could get bud rot from just a little bit of rain. So now I'm worried I might get bud rot from the azamax drench.

Are all of my buds going to rot now, because I drenched them?

Did I really even need to worry after only seeing 3 stupid worms?

If my buds survive the drench are they going to taste or smell like azamax?

I read FDD and Potroast say in this thread that they foliar spray there plants closer to havest than i am right now.
How do you spray this late in budding and avoid budrot?


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## veggiegardener (Sep 21, 2010)

Did you read about Bt?

That is the real fix.

It gives the worms a fatal belly ache in just a day or two after application.


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## veggiegardener (Sep 21, 2010)

zigzagzak said:


> heynow riu. I'm in need of some help. i saw a bud worm on my purple gorilla yesterday. and then this morning i found 2 more on my grape ape plant. So i came here and started reading this thread. About 8 pages in I said oh shit i better do something fast. So i ran outback mixed up a gallon of azamax and drenched my 8 beautiful girls. Then, soon as I was finished, i remembered how just 2 days ago i hurried and put stakes in the ground and hung a tarp over my patch, because I was warned i could get bud rot from just a little bit of rain. So now I'm worried I might get bud rot from the azamax drench.
> 
> Are all of my buds going to rot now, because I drenched them?
> 
> ...


Rinse the plants in a day or two, in the morning, on asunny day.

They should be fine.


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## zigzagzak (Sep 22, 2010)

Heynow, thanks for the advice VG. I did read about BT in this thread, but I already had the Azamax. And the Azamax booklet says it kills budworms and everything else. So i just went with what I had. I went out back this morning and it seems to have all dried up already. No BUDROT yet. I guess the reason I got really worried, is bcs I sprayed My indoor garden with the Azamax a couple weeks ago and got budrot in a few different places on a couple of plants. I can't lose my backyard babies, they're to big and beautiful. 

So now my questions are 

You said rinse the plants, Do you mean with my hose or PHed water in the sprayer?

How late into budding can I spray my babies without having to worry about BUDROT?
All the way until the day of harvest, like Potroast said in this thread?

If so how come everyone here in NorCal is warning me to tarp up, everytime it spits?
or else I'll get BUDROT, thats what I've been told 10x now in the last month.

Last year in Delaware my outdoor girls went through 2 severe storms, almost back to back, literally right before I harvested them. No BUDROT anywhere on them. A stupid slug did get to one of my plants though. I still smoked that shit though. It tasted better than the mexican dirt and it was free. Now i live in Santa Rosa, where its HELLA nice for sure bro.


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## odbsmydog (Sep 22, 2010)

rain is a lot different than spraying in the morning on a sunny day. your plants are dry in like an hour on a normal day. if it rains for a couple days your plants stay wet the whole time. there in lies the problems for budrot and mildew. budrots also caused by caterpillars eating through your buds and leaving shit in their path..


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## dumbthumb (Sep 22, 2010)

slabhead said:


> [video=youtube;SvFsbwd-g-0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvFsbwd-g-0[/video]


All the girls got a good soaking dose of BT spray again yesterday morning, thought about this video the whole time, even imitating the voice....talking to the 'pillar's, come on, get yo'self a nice big bite o' this.

I hate these little beasts, they wait until now to descend, right when things are ripe, little bastages!


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## blower (Sep 22, 2010)

Spraying with killer shot for bugs will damage buds for taste 
Pick them off , and just feed azatrol or azamax in water feeds


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## odbsmydog (Sep 22, 2010)

if you use bt or spinosad and stop a week before harvest there wont be a taste because it's just an organic bacteria that evaporates off. I also spray the plants with distilled water a couple days before harvest to wash them off..


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## dumbthumb (Sep 22, 2010)

odbsmydog said:


> if you use bt or spinosad and stop a week before harvest there wont be a taste because it's just an organic bacteria that evaporates off. I also spray the plants with distilled water a couple days before harvest to wash them off..


that's the plan, to rinse this saturday, in the morning so they'll dry, then a week to harvest, at least on the one plant that's ready. most of them have at least another three weeks to go, three llllooooonnnnnggggg weeks! Last year's shit is running out!

 DT


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## GotBud? (Sep 22, 2010)

KushKing949 said:


> why in the world would you do that?????? i would seriously like to see you do it. I think it would be funny. and a lil dee dee dee !


Why not, i'd smoke those fuckers, just think about what they eat. They prolly eat all the good shit from the buds. Hell i'd give em' a puff.


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## seems1 (Sep 22, 2010)

i sprayed my two girls with BT a week ago and since then i've just been manually checking it found a sick looking one today on a leaf. im harvesting one this weekend and spraying the other one once more. dam worms got me tripn. dont want to lose more budsss!
this is a bud of the girl im chopn on sunday.


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## zigzagzak (Sep 22, 2010)

Do you think that those hairs are all turning brown bcs of damage from a punk ass budworm? Or do you think they are turning bcs of the insect spray? Or is just that the plant is maturing and they are supposed to be dying.

The reason I ask is bcs two days ago I saw a couple budworm, so I sprayed the plants down with the recommended medium dose of Azamax. Now 2 days later, almost every white hair everywhere is dying. I also fed them the recommended medium dose of Budda Bloom, But these are big girls, so I figured they'd have no probs.

If all my white hairs die, should I chop down my plants?

Also I found another budworm chomping down on my Hog today, 2 days after spraying with Azamax. I'm going to buy that BT today.


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## B2GROW (Sep 23, 2010)

I've noticed they go brown out a bit faster where there has been worm activity... maybe it's just me. They're supposed to turn brown though, don't trip.


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## zigzagzak (Sep 23, 2010)

cool, thanks man. I'm still tripping though


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## A.J. (Sep 24, 2010)

It's because they fcked that area up. You'll notie that it's dry and clumpy. I pulled my clumps out, picked the crap out, and they are recovering.


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## blower (Sep 26, 2010)

Yes think about it tho, like huge farming for veggies. Do you want to produce medicine that has been sprayed. Even though it's 'safer or organics like
Just pick them bugs off, feed in waterings 
Tag affect buds and check every day


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## obijohn (Sep 27, 2010)

I found one on top of my main cola last week. haven't seen any more. 2 weeks til harvest, just I just not worry about it at this point? Will FF's Don't Bug Me work?


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## MrSaltine420 (Sep 27, 2010)

Man, just quit putting chemicals on them and pick them out.


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## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

MrSaltine420 said:


> Man, just quit putting chemicals on them and pick them out.


Bt is a bacteria suspended in liquid maple sugar.

It is nearly 100% effective and completely non toxic.

You'd be damn lucky to find half the worms before they do damage.


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## obijohn (Sep 27, 2010)

Will Don't Bug Me work?


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## odbsmydog (Sep 27, 2010)

MrSaltine420 said:


> Man, just quit putting chemicals on them and pick them out.





blower said:


> Yes think about it tho, like huge farming for veggies. Do you want to produce medicine that has been sprayed. Even though it's 'safer or organics like
> Just pick them bugs off, feed in waterings
> Tag affect buds and check every day


If you have more than a few plants and they are all over head height there is no way to pic them off. maybe if you are just growing one little plant for personal use. even then you should use BT as a preventative as there is NO WAY to pick all the caterpillars off since they are born at a tiny size that's super hard to see until they eat and get bigger.

Also chemical sprays are used all the time on weed and most the shit you buy has chem's on it which I hate and totally disagree with. BT is not a chemical though it's an organic bacteria that has been used for 80 years.

I'd like to see you try to pick every 'pillar off of a 30-100 plant garden of 10 foot tree's. don't be ridiculous.


here is the info on BT for all you naysayers that have no idea what you are talking about

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_thuringiensis




obijohn said:


> Will Don't Bug Me work?


No! does anybody read this thread at all or do they just comment after reading the title?


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## orionhcca (Sep 27, 2010)

dose walmart have Bt ?


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## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

orionhcca said:


> dose walmart have Bt ?


Sometimes.

Any local nursery that sells tomato plants will have it.

OSH probably keeps it in stock. Home depot and Lowe's both carry it, but I'm not sure if it is seasonal.

You can order it on line, and have it in a couple days.


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## swanmyst (Sep 29, 2010)

Hi ya'll. thanks for all the great knowledge. This is my first grow, in pots outside in Sac, and I have just found those dang worms in my lovely buds too! Was out there with the flashlight in my mouth while I desperately searching for them chopping critters in my buds in the dark. Squished a bunch of them tonight, and cut the damaged buds and trimmed 'em up and got them drying. 

Seems the thing do do is spray the BT early, so guess best thing is to pick as many as I can off. Am I right in that its mostly too late for the BT at this stage so close to harvest? I'm hoping that they can last a few more weeks. Been using the fox farm cha ching on them and they are so frosty they were glittering in the led light and my fingers were all stuck together. Had some solace from the scissor hash after trimming the poor buds. Some were gutted. Got 'em on paper plates drying in the dark guest room as I don't have a way to hang 'em yet. Figured I had another couple weeks to get that set up, then this happened!


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## ChemoBoy (Sep 29, 2010)

swanmyst said:


> Hi ya'll. thanks for all the great knowledge. This is my first grow, in pots outside in Sac, and I have just found those dang worms in my lovely buds too! Was out there with the flashlight in my mouth while I desperately searching for them chopping critters in my buds in the dark. Squished a bunch of them tonight, and cut the damaged buds and trimmed 'em up and got them drying.
> 
> Seems the thing do do is spray the BT early, so guess best thing is to pick as many as I can off. Am I right in that its mostly too late for the BT at this stage so close to harvest? I'm hoping that they can last a few more weeks. Been using the fox farm cha ching on them and they are so frosty they were glittering in the led light and my fingers were all stuck together. Had some solace from the scissor hash after trimming the poor buds. Some were gutted. Got 'em on paper plates drying in the dark guest room as I don't have a way to hang 'em yet. Figured I had another couple weeks to get that set up, then this happened!


I would be comfortable using BT right up to a week before harvest. I'd go up to 4 days before harvest if I was outside and I saw worms 4 days before harvest. I'd spray with BT in the early morning and then spray with water only two days later to help things along. So the most aggressive would be to mist BT on the morning 4 days before harvest, then mist water only on the morning two days before harvest. From what I've studied, the BT bacteria, which is harmless to us really anyway, is effectively gone within 48 hours with UV exposure. Azamax kills some worms if it hits them directly and is safe up to the day of harvest according to the label, on edible products. Fingers work well, and don't forget that those damaged buds will smoke JUST FINE once they're cleaned up a bit. All that's really damaged is our pride.... 

Veggie Gardener is the really experienced guy here with the BT regimen. I'd go with his advice.


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## anomolies (Sep 30, 2010)

Fuck... BT isn't working for me... I think it's good as a preventative but doesn't work once you've got an infestation.
Actually I'm not so sure if it even works at all. I sprayed down some of my 2 week budding plants twice this week, completely drenched them. I took care in spraying* every single* *bud. *and what do I find today? A *big fat caterpillar sitting on top of a bud.*

I've got 2 plants that are infested and trying to make it through the last 2-3 weeks and I've picked out 40+ caterpillars and sprayed BT. I still keep on finding newly hatched catepillars and one or two newly destroyed bud everyday.

What to do guys? I'm gonna go look for some Spinosad... but from what I understand they both work the same so I'm kind of doubtful.

I need something 100% safe to spray during last weeks and kills within a day.


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## odbsmydog (Oct 1, 2010)

the chlorine in tap water kills a lot of the BT, you should be using bottled/distilled/ROd water. also nothing kills withen a day because it just makes them stop eating. and yes it's better as a preventative. once you are infested it's hard to fight them off.

I like spinosad and then 3 days later BT and then a week off and repeat. been working good so far!


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## veggiegardener (Oct 1, 2010)

Honestly, I've never used it to knock down an infestation. I just start spraying in May or June and rarely see a worm.


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## anomolies (Oct 1, 2010)

Anyone had any luck with neem?


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## Noballs (Oct 1, 2010)

Safer makes a tomato and vegetable spray that kills caterpillers. Its OMRI approved and can be used up to the date of harvest. At least for veggies! Its mostly pyrethrins and a little potassium of fatty acids which are both good for your plants. Hope this helps!


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## I dont know (Oct 1, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Honestly, I've never used it to knock down an infestation. I just start spraying in May or June and rarely see a worm.


Im going to do what you do spray earlier in the season and try to prevent it sooner then later... They almosted kicked my ass but I won the little battle stupid things I hate them. For a second there I thought I had done somthing wrong and was the only one with this problem, till i went to my local store and they said your not the only one with this problem, feww relief


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## swanmyst (Oct 1, 2010)

Hey there anomilies, you have my shared sympathies for sure!

I've been picking out the worms ever since I first found them a few days ago. Had to pull up the Blue Dream yesterday as it was the last planted and wasn't very big, and the worms seemed to like it best. I just didn't want to take the risk of losing the whole thing.. better to have some, then none.

Next they like the White Widow's.. and like you, I've found some damaged buds every day. As I was trimming, I have found some very small worms buried deep that I'd never see if I was looking for them.
I keep taking the mag glass out hoping the tricomes will be cloudy and amber.. but so far, mostly all clear still. At least the Blue Dream was a hybrid, so not terribly awful to be a few weeks early but I would much rather it had a chance to grow longer. 

I hate to pull them up early and so seem to be harvesting bud by bud or branch by branch when there is a series of damaged buds on one, or if I can't find the worm, cuz I know it must be in there somewhere, and I generally do find them. 

*sighs* So next year, will start with the BT early and keep it up.. If nothing else, I've learned a lot this first growing year.


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## anomolies (Oct 1, 2010)

Hey Swan, don't give up. Keep spraying and hand-picking them. I am checking the buds every single day, but somehow they just keep appearing.

Get in your buds with a tweezer. I had one plant I didn't really care about and didn't think to check for caterpillars. It was still healthy since I last saw it 3 days ago (outward appearance alone you wouldn't think there were caterpillars) but today I found the caterpillars completely destroyed the plant. So if you give up the battle now it'll never make it through harvest. The eggs are timed to hatch right when your plants are in mid flower. Those damn bastards...

Other than drenching the buds in neem / BT, I thought of something that might work?

*Electrocution.. will this work? lol..* hopefully it's not a dumb idea.
Hoping it will kill the caterpillars but not affect the plant.
My plants aren't that huge so I can submerge one cola at a time in a bucket of water and run electricity through it?

How big of a battery do you think I'll need to kill the caterpillars but pose no risk to myself or the THC?


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## veggiegardener (Oct 2, 2010)

LOL!

Plants can die from electrocution.

Use 240 to make it quick and painless....

Better to mix Bt and dip the plant in it. 3 teaspoons in five gallons of water should do it.

This should be 100% effective against live caterpillars.

Spraying sometimes misses worms that have hatched and burrowed inside the bud.

Spraying regularly insures they'll eat some Bt before invading the khola.


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## odbsmydog (Oct 2, 2010)

anomolies said:


> Hey Swan, don't give up. Keep spraying and hand-picking them. I am checking the buds every single day, but somehow they just keep appearing.
> 
> Get in your buds with a tweezer. I had one plant I didn't really care about and didn't think to check for caterpillars. It was still healthy since I last saw it 3 days ago (outward appearance alone you wouldn't think there were caterpillars) but today I found the caterpillars completely destroyed the plant. So if you give up the battle now it'll never make it through harvest. The eggs are timed to hatch right when your plants are in mid flower. Those damn bastards...
> 
> ...


lol. For some reason I thought of the dude getting electro-shocked to death in the green mile when I read this.


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## obijohn (Oct 2, 2010)

anomolies said:


> Fuck... BT isn't working for me... I think it's good as a preventative but doesn't work once you've got an infestation.
> Actually I'm not so sure if it even works at all. I sprayed down some of my 2 week budding plants twice this week, completely drenched them. I took care in spraying* every single* *bud. *and what do I find today? A *big fat caterpillar sitting on top of a bud.*
> 
> I've got 2 plants that are infested and trying to make it through the last 2-3 weeks and I've picked out 40+ caterpillars and sprayed BT. I still keep on finding newly hatched catepillars and one or two newly destroyed bud everyday.
> ...


I'm in the same general area as you and noticed the first worm a week ago. Who here has used Monterey gardens Spinosad? I used it Thursday, soaking the buds. Friday morning more worms and the top of a big cola was severed from the plant. Sprayed again. Today I lost a whole branch and saw several worms, including a baby one. All the other ones I saw were close to an inch long

Hydro shop guy says it takes several days for them to ingest the stuff and dehydrate. For those that use it, that seem to be the case? I have 2 weeks at least to go and don't like the buzz the plant provised right now...all clear trics for the most part and the buzz isn't stoney. It's a very intense head high without the relaxing part and just seems kind of rough

Guess I wanna know...should I keep using Spinosad every few days and hope for the best, and wait out the 2 + weeks. Or chop and cut my losses.




edit: unless they are outside the bud I just cant see 'em. I went thru a bud yesterday and saw nothing, a big fat one was there today.


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## anomolies (Oct 2, 2010)

Today I was on a trip somewhere and I noticed ants in my car.

Then it hit me.

Ants will devour anything in it's path. If you could collect a bunch of ants by baiting them with sweets, discovering a nest, or collecting ant queens and brooding them, you could unleash an army of ants onto your plants and they will drag those caterpillars out and eat them alive.

I think it's a pretty solid idea because there are many different size ants and the smaller ones are able to get deep inside the buds. Now whether or not the ants will panic and run around instead of killing caterpillars is another story.
I'm thinking keeping queen ants in a terranium near your plants would be a better idea but that would time, so maybe next summer.

I'm going to try and look for some ants tomorrow. This BT shit ain't workin and my hydro stores don't carry spinosad.


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## Noballs (Oct 2, 2010)

Noballs said:


> Safer makes a tomato and vegetable spray that kills caterpillers. Its OMRI approved and can be used up to the date of harvest. At least for veggies! Its mostly pyrethrins and a little potassium of fatty acids which are both good for your plants. Hope this helps!


Before you assemble your ant army why dont you give this stuff a try? Its available at walmart.


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## TycoonTrees (Oct 2, 2010)

anomolies said:


> Today I was on a trip somewhere and I noticed ants in my car.
> 
> Then it hit me.
> 
> ...


I would suggest not to do this because ants will bring aphids to your plants


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## anomolies (Oct 2, 2010)

Noballs said:


> Before you assemble your ant army why dont you give this stuff a try? Its available at walmart.


Pyrethrins are toxic, no thanks. I'm 2 weeks from harvest.



> Pyrethrins are used in many varieties of insecticide, fogging products and in some pet products. Care should be taken when using this substance around humans and animals. Overdose and toxicity can result in a variety of symptoms, especially in pets, including drooling, lethargy, muscle tremors, vomiting, seizures and death.[5] Toxicity symptoms in humans include asthmatic breathing, sneezing, nasal stuffiness, headache, nausea, incoordination, tremors, convulsions, facial flushing and swelling, and burning and itching sensation.[6]


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## anomolies (Oct 2, 2010)

TycoonTrees said:


> I would suggest not to do this because ants will bring aphids to your plants


I knew a lot about insects when I was a kid and that is generally incorrect. Aphids fly to a plant and hatch young. The ants find and protect the aphids in exchange for the honeydew that they secret. It is symbiosis.
However, I have never had an aphid problem and if there are no aphids the ants aren't going to bring aphids because aphids aren't required for ant survival.
There are some ant species that depend solely on "aphid farming," but they aren't present around here.

Also, aphids are the easiest to deal with in my opinion, because they are visible on the stalk and can be easily squished by rubbing your fingers across the stem. It is very difficult to have an aphid problem unless you completely ignore your plant for weeks or are just fuckin blind.

I see a lot of people using bug spray on ants-- totally unnecessary. I always tell people there's nothing to fear from ants if you know how they work but they don't believe me until I show them.
Here is what you do: Remove the food source, erase the trail with bleach or oil or whatever (the invisible line they are following), and they will disappear or eventually wander back to their nest. Ants do not run around aimlessly, except for those scouting for food. They follow scent trails, if there are no scent trails they won't be there in the first place.


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## Noballs (Oct 3, 2010)

anomolies said:


> I see a lot of people using bug spray on ants-- totally unnecessary. I always tell people there's nothing to fear from ants if you know how they work but they don't believe me until I show them.
> Here is what you do: Remove the food source, erase the trail with bleach or oil or whatever (the invisible line they are following), and they will disappear or eventually wander back to their nest. Ants do not run around aimlessly, except for those scouting for food. They follow scent trails, if there are no scent trails they won't be there in the first place.


Bleach and oil are more toxic than 0.01% Pyrethrins. Iunderstand your concern, but the air in CA is more toxic than 0.01% Pyrethrins. Pyrethrum is a substance that is obtained from certain types of chrysanthemums, sometimes called pyrethrum daisies. Pyrethrins are chemical compounds within pyrethrum that act as insecticides. Because pyrethrins are naturally occurring chemcials, using pyrethrum as an insecticide is less environmentally damaging than using man-made chemicals. Heck man made nutes are more toxic​


​


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## anomolies (Oct 3, 2010)

that last paragraph had nothing to do with plants-- that was my recommendation on how to get rid of ants in your house, so I don't know why you're telling me that bleach and oil are more toxic than pyrethrins. 

Pyrethrins are toxic to cats and dogs. Ironically, you find them in Hartz and several other brand's flea control products. Even though it's only .01% or whatever, if you go to hartzvictims.org or google "hartz killed my pet," you'll be surprised at how many complaints there are and after so many years of complaints the product is still on the shelf.

If the nearly 2000 complaints and painful stories about facial paralysis, itching, allergy, balding symptoms, etc. in pets, doesn't convince you, well that's too bad.



I'm not going to be smoking herb sprayed with the same poison that has killed hundreds of pets.

Nor do I want to be smoking stuff that can cause these symptoms: "Toxicity symptoms in humans include asthmatic breathing, sneezing, nasal stuffiness, headache, nausea, incoordination, tremors, convulsions, facial flushing and swelling, and burning and itching sensation."

Even if it's .01%, It might become concentrated after several applications or the plant absorbs it.

Also... I'm seeing less caterpillars now.. and finding more dead ones. Either the neem or BT is working so I'll just keep spraying like crazy and hand-picking.


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## Noballs (Oct 3, 2010)

Sorry just trying to help. I thought you meant put it on your plants! At least you think outside the box. 
(electrocution, ant armys)


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## anomolies (Oct 3, 2010)

Yea I know. But pyrethrins are really toxic and intelligent veterinarians will tell you this. Just cus it's natural doesn't mean it can't kill you. (i.e. venom, bee sting, poisonous berries, etc)

I do think the ant army thing will work, haven't you seen those army ants on discovery channel? They kill everything in their path! haha. Though you don't need ants that big.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXaaTQztoI0


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## Noballs (Oct 3, 2010)




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## anomolies (Oct 3, 2010)

Nice! crazy looking spider.


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## senorcoconut (Oct 4, 2010)

Noballs said:


> View attachment 1191139View attachment 1191137


haha they look awesome


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## veggiegardener (Oct 4, 2010)

Noballs said:


> View attachment 1191139View attachment 1191137


Jumping Spiders are amazing critters.

I have the black and white jumping spiders with the electric blue "eye" patches, the regular garden spider, and black widows. I'd like to get rid of the last, but not at the price, of losing the others.

I've started harvesting and found three small dead spots on the tips of buds.

An indication the worm burrowed into the bud before it found the Bt.

I haven't sprayed in several weeks.

All three buds were near each other. Probably a spot I missed when I last sprayed.


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## veggiegardener (Oct 4, 2010)

anomolies said:


> that last paragraph had nothing to do with plants-- that was my recommendation on how to get rid of ants in your house, so I don't know why you're telling me that bleach and oil are more toxic than pyrethrins.
> 
> Pyrethrins are toxic to cats and dogs. Ironically, you find them in Hartz and several other brand's flea control products. Even though it's only .01% or whatever, if you go to hartzvictims.org or google "hartz killed my pet," you'll be surprised at how many complaints there are and after so many years of complaints the product is still on the shelf.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting that. I'd feel terrible if I did that to our cats.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 5, 2010)

take your nasty pictures elsewhere please, thank you. it was obviously removed for a reason.


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## odbsmydog (Oct 5, 2010)

it was a good warning.. I don't think he meant for the pics to be entertainment or anything. poor kitties. good to know.


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## anomolies (Oct 5, 2010)

fuck... how do you get these caterpillars when they're super tiny and hiding inside the stem? They eat your buds from the inside out.


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## veggiegardener (Oct 5, 2010)

anomolies said:


> fuck... how do you get these caterpillars when they're super tiny and hiding inside the stem? They eat your buds from the inside out.


Spray Bt every two or three weeks beginning in June.

The eggs are layed on the outer leaves.

The tiny worm eats its way into the interior of the bud. If you've been spraying regularly, they eventually find the Bt, and die of indigestion.

Check post #697.


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## blower (Oct 6, 2010)

Best insects to kill all bad annoying pests?
Tell us !


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## TycoonTrees (Oct 6, 2010)

blower said:


> Best insects to kill all bad annoying pests?
> Tell us !


Praying mantis do a good job dey eat all the ones we hate wenever I can find sum I always catch em and let them have fun in my plants


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## odbsmydog (Oct 6, 2010)

TycoonTrees said:


> Praying mantis do a good job dey eat all the ones we hate wenever I can find sum I always catch em and let them have fun in my plants



Did some one say praying mantis?!

View attachment 1197453View attachment 1197459



Mantis' rules but I don't think they are gonna help much with bud worms.


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## blower (Oct 7, 2010)

Really yes thats it praying mantis


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## California Buds (Oct 7, 2010)

Next year I am going to get an army of praying mantis'. They are the lion of the insect world!


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## sonofnothing (Oct 7, 2010)

there was one flying around my girlfriends room the other night. i got a sweet vide of it, i took em outside and let em go.

as for worms, ive found 2 so far on my hollands hope plant. i just smush them.. havent found signs of worms eating heavily and still no bt. i gotta go get some but im broke!


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## valley grower (Oct 7, 2010)

ladybugs work good they will actually go inside your buds and get those cats out. matis might catch a moth before it lays its eggs


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## sonofnothing (Oct 7, 2010)

so ladybugs good huh? ok


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## holycheezit (Oct 9, 2010)

I bet those worms are super stoned those buds look nice


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## veggiegardener (Oct 9, 2010)

sonofnothing said:


> so ladybugs good huh? ok


Due to a cool Spring, the ladybugs didn't arrive on schedule, opening the way for thrips, spider mites, aphids(first time ever, on Cannabis) and white flies.

I purchased and applied several thousand ladybugs several times, but too late to do more than make a dent.

I also save Mantid egg cases, placing them in quiet safe corners along the fence and in the greenhouses.

When small, they eat a ton of the tiny critters, but grow too fast to remain effective for long.

Garden spiders also thrive in my garden. They eat a lot of butterflies.

Still, for caterpillars, BT is the only really effective treatment.

I happened to notice an egg case hatching one day, on my remesh trellis. The mantis pictured is about 1/4" long. The other pix were taken about a week later.


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## odbsmydog (Oct 9, 2010)

what do they eat when they get bigger?


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## anomolies (Oct 9, 2010)

yep, mantis eat mainly the larger bugs, like flies / grasshoppers / bees / moths/ butterflies / spiders / etc.
so, not effective for caterpillars. + mantis will not go digging through your buds to find bugs to eat, they don't have the ability to do so (do not burrow). They wait for prey to pass by.

Ladybugs go in hibernation and fly away into the mountains or huddle in a nest with a bunch of other ladybugs (I think in the Fall?), so not very effective either.

To the guy saying no money for BT, better get on that shit, it's only $10 for a small bottle. Caterpillars are no joke and will destroy your plant faster than you know it. You may think there's only 1 or 2, but realistically do you think a moth / butterfly is only going to lay 2 eggs? Most of them are tiny and hiding inside the buds or burrowed into the stems already.


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## veggiegardener (Oct 10, 2010)

anomolies said:


> yep, mantis eat mainly the larger bugs, like flies / grasshoppers / bees / moths/ butterflies / spiders / etc.
> so, not effective for caterpillars. + mantis will not go digging through your buds to find bugs to eat, they don't have the ability to do so (do not burrow). They wait for prey to pass by.
> 
> Ladybugs go in hibernation and fly away into the mountains or huddle in a nest with a bunch of other ladybugs (I think in the Fall?), so not very effective either.
> ...


Exactly.

I used to find worms or insects and feed the mantises.

Ever watched half a worm disappear?

Mantises are FAST.

Caterpillars are invisible, inside the buds, until the buds begin to rot.


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## odbsmydog (Oct 10, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Caterpillars are invisible, inside the buds, until the buds begin to rot.


 amen!


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## too xntrik (Oct 11, 2010)

Early am and right at dusk is the best time to look for caterpillers for you hand pickers... I catch them napping on the SURFACE of the bud right at first light before they warm up. They seem to come out to grab breakfast and warm up. The evening as well but early am has always been best!! Or use BT and sleep in...lol.


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## bchboy147 (Oct 13, 2010)

After spraying BT a week ago, I still am finding caterpillars! I hand pick them out if I can find them but I'm worried about damaging my buds. Also, their poop has gotten in some pretty tight pockets next to the stem. Is there any way to remove these so they don't cause mold? I'm so fucking pissed because this happened to me last season. Thanks for any ideas.


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## Noballs (Oct 14, 2010)

My pillars are more like stem borers. They live somewhere *in* your stem, close to where you see the poo. (Usually where a leaf meets the stem). They move upward eating and pooing inside the stem. I remove the leaf where I see the poo, thats where I find the entry hole. The pillars are about 1/4 inch long, tan with brown heads. I have sliced the stem length wise to pick the damm things out the plant recovered well. If I was unable to, or couldnt bring myself to slice at it, I took a pin and stabbed the stem upwards for about two inches. The damage did cease after stabbing the plant and I hardly think the plant even noticed. I must have killed alot of them this way. I picked any poopie stuff off and tossed it. (kinda like a marijuana torture chamber for worms) Oyeah I started using a Safer BT powder and havent seen any since.


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## anomolies (Oct 15, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Exactly.
> 
> I used to find worms or insects and feed the mantises.
> 
> ...


hAHA, when I was a kid i used to squish a bunch of aphids together (kinda like a hash ball) and feed it to mantis that I kept as pets. Otherwise they only eat bugs that they can catch with their arms.

BT finally worked, I had to spray like every 3 days and hand-pick in between.
I see a shriveled up caterpillar here and there, just hanging off a stem, and I'm like, "Couldn't find the bathroom in time huh? That's what you get fucker!"

On a side note I think 2 tsp/gal might have been too much it started shriveling the hairs. Anyone else having this problem?



Don't worry about the poop, it doesn't cause mold. At least not for me. I think all the budworms everyone here is having burrow into the stems anyway. Just spray the buds like mad. I make sure to drench EVERY single bud inside and out. I think it only sleeps inside the stem to avoid the cold at night or something. They feed during the day.

lol, stabbing the stem with a needle is pretty crazy they must be like "wtf ahhhh help me!". Though unnecessary, they don't hide in the stem forever so eventually when they come out they come into contact with the BT and die of horrible diarrhea.


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## odbsmydog (Oct 19, 2010)

bchboy147 said:


> View attachment 1210399After spraying BT a week ago, I still am finding caterpillars! I hand pick them out if I can find them but I'm worried about damaging my buds. Also, their poop has gotten in some pretty tight pockets next to the stem. Is there any way to remove these so they don't cause mold? I'm so fucking pissed because this happened to me last season. Thanks for any ideas.


if you already have worms it's not gonna work unless you spray it like 10 times. BT is much better as a preventative sprayed every 3-10 days throughout the end of veg and flower. once you get those bastards it's really hard(impossible) to reverse the damage.


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## BarzMcGee707 (Oct 25, 2010)

I guess im a lucky McGee. The ONLY problems ive had this outdoor season were minor spider mites. Got rid of those with some eucalyptus. Them worms are nasty tho. Hope i beat around em again. Then again im sure growing them in containers and not having multiple variety plants around prevented me from bug invasion.


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 27, 2010)

those fucking worms got me dirty.... my plant turned out bomb too but i only harvested a lil under a zip.... THEY ROBBED ME..... I was growing up a tree somewhere where i couldnt check on it a lot and well thats the way the cookie crumbles...


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## 1freezy (Oct 28, 2010)

I've read this whole thing and the last outdoor grow I did was thankfully not affected. Next year doing another outdoor grow (colorado right where forest and desert meet) and from the moment the clones hit the dirt (April) till harvest (November) what should the anti-piller routine be. Got the bear and moose piss for the big problems but it's the little ones that worry me!


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## mayor juana (Nov 18, 2010)

Yikes, don't bring those things to Texas, looks like a Cali thing.


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## veggiegardener (Nov 20, 2010)

Bacillus Thurengiensis is sold as Caterpillar Killer.

Spraying every three weeks, starting in June is very effective.

Earlier if the butterflies show up early, as they did here, in '09, BIG time.

Regular spraying creates layers of protection.

Even if a worm begins to burrow into the bud, he'll soon run into the spray, which, once shaded inside the bud, will remain effective for months.

I found worm damage on about a dozen buds this year, due to missing a spot for one spray.

I found no live worms, and the total loss was less than 1/4 ounce.

I can live with that.


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## nikole957 (Nov 30, 2010)

KushKing949 said:


> i think my buds are too far along for me to be spraying BT on em


 The buds on my infested plant are about three weeks out from harvest so I'll hit it again in about 10 days then let it finish. My other plant is about 4 to 5 weeks out so I might have to hit it twice. If I remember correctly fdd sprayed his last year up until about two or three weeks before harvest. Am I correct on that fdd? 
I've sprayed my tomatoes with BT in the evening and harvested the next morning with no problems. I'm not to afraid of toxic problems because BT is considered an organic pesticide. I'm more worried about flavor.


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## Ganjasism (Jan 25, 2011)

What about a BUGLIGHT????


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## hic (Feb 4, 2011)

budworms? who needs em.


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## first be (Feb 16, 2011)

The ONLY problems ive had this outdoor season were minor spider mites. Got rid of those with some eucalyptus. Them worms are nasty tho. Hope i beat around em again. which, once shaded inside the bud, will remain effective for months.


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## Daveychaos (Mar 28, 2011)

throw those bastards in a tequila and call it a day = P

i f*cking hate Bud worms!


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## angryblackman (Mar 30, 2011)

I will be ready this year.. They cost me a couple of colas last season..


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## syrianweedman (Apr 1, 2011)

most people cover their bud,right?


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## Fat Freddys Cat (Apr 5, 2011)

I had these last year,and they almost cleaned me out Someone told me to cover the girls with fine net at night to keep the moths,from laying the eggs.


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## lobsterxmanx (Apr 22, 2011)

man, i just saw one of these bastards in my plant, i squished him. and there were like 30 little teeny tiny worms on the bottom side of the leaf he was on. what were those?


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## jamboss (Apr 26, 2011)

i got caterpillars gnawing my girl, but i can only go to her at night, is it possible to pick them off at night and how effective are pepper and garlic sprays against them?


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## ChemoBoy (Apr 26, 2011)

Yes you can pick the worms at night -- use a flashlight but remember that you'll stress your plants like that with light in the dark hours. And forget the other sprays. Get a caterpillar killer that has BT in it. Safer Caterpillar killer is one of the two I got, from a garden store. The other one is called Thuricide from Home Depot. Both are little bottles, about 10-12 bucks, but they make enough spray for 10 years prolly. Read the directions, follow them. Spray every 2-3 weeks and squish every worm you see.


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## jhod58vw (Apr 26, 2011)

fuk those bastards they got me last year tore up my aloha berrys


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## jamboss (May 2, 2011)

i got some Dipel Pro DF for those fuckers.


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## pabloesqobar (May 2, 2011)

jamboss said:


> i got some Dipel Pro DF for those fuckers.



Yep, that's basically BT. It works.


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## obijohn (May 11, 2011)

bryon209 said:


> jesus fuck this thread is three years old


 Because Budworms never sleep!


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## chef c (May 20, 2011)

i got em once in cali.. Sad for the grow. Cant really sell it, trashed a bunch.. I guess i coulda hashed it but grosssssssssss!!!! kill em all.


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## veggiegardener (May 21, 2011)

Bud worms are just a fact of life.

Around here, "Skipper" butterflies are the primary culprit. I'm told that other species of butterflies and moths can also attack buds(haven't noticed others, locally).

Using BT is a fact of life if you grow here(California's Central Valley), and want to be successful.


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## bluedream64 (May 23, 2011)

KushKing949 said:


> why in the world would you do that?????? i would seriously like to see you do it. I think it would be funny. and a lil dee dee dee !


<br>fuck yeah dude youll get high as fuck


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## FR4NKtheT4NK (May 29, 2011)

haha i wouldnt mind seeing him hittin the bubbler with a bowl full of worms YUCK lmao. Ive had an instance with those little bastards chowin down on my plants like right when they started flowering. Mine are in pots so im able to just up and move them away from the tree they were Parajumping from like little soldiers in a war on bud lol. I managed to take them all off one by one by hand(ewww) lol and all was well say for a few leafs that were now a bit blessed(HOLY) lol. Try to plant AWAY from other high growing Veg to avoid them being able to land on ur plants when they do there leaving home thing which is catch the wind with their silk and right it out till they land some place nice..like our Weed! lol


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## Bynk (Jun 1, 2011)

I found some cutworms curled around the base of a trunk. I didn't find much about them in search, other than they are actually caterpillars and may come w/ horse manure in the soil. (guilty)

I sprayed w/ ferti lome Borer, Bagworm, Tent Caterpillar and Leafminer Spray wh/ contains neem oil. Today they were curled up but still alive.

I'll try a spinosad product tomorrow if they are still around
Any other ideas?

Thanks


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## FR4NKtheT4NK (Jun 2, 2011)

is it a whole bunch of little ones?


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## Bynk (Jun 3, 2011)

FR4NKtheT4NK said:


> is it a whole bunch of little ones?


 Ther were 3 curled up at the base of one. No sign of new ones there, yesterday, but found 1 at the base of a second one
Spinosad spray today.....I'll have to find some BK next if necessary, I guess


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## Budsmoker187 (Jun 4, 2011)

Bynk said:


> Ther were 3 curled up at the base of one. No sign of new ones there, yesterday, but found 1 at the base of a second one
> Spinosad spray today.....I'll have to find some BK next if necessary, I guess


if there is three there is probably like 20 more... budworms are masters of disguise and can be almost microscopic when hatched


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## FR4NKtheT4NK (Jun 6, 2011)

Bynk said:


> Ther were 3 curled up at the base of one. No sign of new ones there, yesterday, but found 1 at the base of a second one
> Spinosad spray today.....I'll have to find some BK next if necessary, I guess


Yea well atleast u didnt get over run REALLY quick like i did with my first attack. LOL i mean these little shits were EVERYWHERE, but i managed to salvage the plant(barely). Like i said ppl be careful where u keep ur babies cause the higher the veg around ur plants the more likely u r to get them. Since mine are in pots i can move them at will obviously so it gives me a bit of an edge i guess.


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## Bynk (Jun 6, 2011)

I used Safer brand Bacillus Thuringiensis dust, dusted the stalk base and that seemed to do the job......so far

http://www.saferbrand.com/store/garden-care/5162


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## dababydroman (Jun 19, 2011)

Fuck fuck fuck catipilars! Butterflys make me sick.


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## allamay1608 (Jun 22, 2011)

Chester how did you get them to grow soo tall with little sun light?


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## hightide00 (Jun 29, 2011)

Buddy. I have the same problem. I think I'm just gonna go back to indoor. It's to heartbreaking to grow these beauty and then let these freeloaders just ruin them


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## MediMaryUser (Jul 10, 2011)

kill butterflies kill butterflies kill butterflies kill kill destroy die die die lol


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## veggiegardener (Jul 12, 2011)

MediMaryUser said:


> kill butterflies kill butterflies kill butterflies kill kill destroy die die die lol


Exactly my sentiments!

Now is the time to start spraying Bt. Cover everything lightly but thoroughly. "Caterpillar Killer" made with Bacillus Thurengiensis works 100% of the time, used correctly. Just take care not to miss any buds.

I spray about every 3 weeks until about a month from harvest. I begin spraying when I first see butterflies.

I've seen very few, this year.


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## pabloesqobar (Jul 12, 2011)

veggiegardener said:


> I spray about every 3 weeks until about a month from harvest. I begin spraying when I first see butterflies.
> 
> I've seen very few, this year.


I've sprayed a couple of times already out of an abundance of caution . . . but I haven't seen any butterflies yet this season. Now I'm far enough along that I think I'm in the clear (an autoflower). Figures this would be a light butterfly year now that I decided not to grow a photoperiod plant.


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## veggiegardener (Jul 13, 2011)

pabloesqobar said:


> I've sprayed a couple of times already out of an abundance of caution . . . but I haven't seen any butterflies yet this season. Now I'm far enough along that I think I'm in the clear (an autoflower). Figures this would be a light butterfly year now that I decided not to grow a photoperiod plant.


Irony seems to be a product of Mother Nature.

Really, the most important times to spray are at the beginning of flower, and then again, once or twice during flower. They worms will find Bt inside the bud, even if you haven't sprayed for a few weeks.

I've seen a worm destroy a khola in less than a week, when it was missed during spraying.


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## Noobie. Kinda (Jul 15, 2011)

wow im a bit scared now. if u go to my page nd look at my recent post or my one like, your can see what i am growing id really like if you posted on it with some feed back and if u think if im going to get those worms? thanks!


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## pbeer (Jul 28, 2011)

Can we get a guide from the people that BT Has worked for besides mixing info.. Ive read by some people to spray directly on flowers while others say just leaves.. Than others saying dont spray the florwers the hairs will turn brown and shrivel up.. Much appreciated to someone that can clear this up... Also how far a long in flowering should I STOP using it..


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## HippyCrac (Jul 28, 2011)

I have used BT in the past and it worked ok but I felt I had to apply more often then every 3 weeks for it to work, this year I am going with Spinosad because I heard it lasts twice as long as BT anyone ever use Spinosad? If so how did it work?


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## nazZty (Jul 28, 2011)

FUck dem yo`


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## MediMaryUser (Jul 30, 2011)

finally got some safer caterpiliar spray and sprayed my plant while shes vegging still yesterday


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## CmderData (Aug 1, 2011)

I'm in Orange County, CA as well, wondering if anyone has any luck with Neem sprays. I think I am about 2 weeks out from harvest and I have noticed some bud rot typical of those little bastards getting into my girls. Very isolated though, only 1 or 2 buds.


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## obijohn (Aug 1, 2011)

HippyCrac said:


> I have used BT in the past and it worked ok but I felt I had to apply more often then every 3 weeks for it to work, this year I am going with Spinosad because I heard it lasts twice as long as BT anyone ever use Spinosad? If so how did it work?


 Works great for me, but I was told the residue dissipates after a few days, so I don't think it stays on very long. I sprayed every 5-8 days last year soon as i saw a budworm and kept anything from getting ruined except for the initial bud.

Can anyone more knowledgeable than I confirm or deny how long it stays on?


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## marcu5 (Aug 2, 2011)

had this problem last year and i've been vigilante ever since. i spray both BT and Spinosad over my back yard, not just my plants. the trees, grass, bushes, everything green. 

another successful method that i'd easily recommend is turning your outdoors into a bird sanctuary. a few bird feeders, seeds and nectar, maybe a bird bath and bird house as well. they'll hunt any flying insect that dares trespass into your yard.


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## SWUSAZ (Aug 2, 2011)

Put the worms in tequila?


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## CannabisError (Aug 3, 2011)

I have this problem every year. Even with BT you will still have catapillars. Just because you spray with BT doesnt mean your not going to want to go out every day and check your buds.


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## loprofile (Aug 4, 2011)

I just found this seasons first batch of eggs on my girls. Been spraying spinosad and inspecting daily. I HATE catapillars!


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## veggiegardener (Aug 4, 2011)

I use Bt. Most years I never see a live caterpillar. In the times I do, they're always some place that was overlooked when I sprayed.

Be thorough and the worms will all die.

BTW, Bt is usually added to a foliar feeding, using fish emulsion, seaweed emulsion, a bio-enhancer(bacteria stimulant), a bit of epsom salts, a few drops of Superthrive, along with the Bt.

Use small amounts, because it is easy to overdo the nutrients.

Try to spray early in the morning, or late afternoon, but while the sun is still up, to dry the droplets before dark.


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## n0va59 (Aug 5, 2011)

Holy god you guys are scaring me.... I have 2 plants out on a 12th floor balcony in containers and only once (about a month ago) I found a little tiny green worm on 1 plant. I squished it and so far have seen no more. I have other vegtable plants on my balcont as well and they seem ok. 

1 of my plants is in flower about 10 days now and I check every day...can some1 explain what exactly I should be looking for in terms of bugs in my buds


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## veggiegardener (Aug 6, 2011)

feces, mold, small caterpillars. Sometimes you can see damage to a stem. Use Bt and stop worrying.


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## 420tycoon (Aug 11, 2011)

had found bout 10 caterpillars on one of my early flowering plants and sprayed BT twice since then and haven't found one yet! i had saved my plants wit BT and now feel safer n more confident in collecting my harvest with out throwing huge colas into the BHO batch lol


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## pickle8 (Aug 12, 2011)

I lost quite a few zips last year to worms. Not cool at all. Not gonna happen this year though. Funny this was last year while curing finding bud worms trying to get out of the jar. Found about 5 like that.


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## veggiegardener (Aug 12, 2011)

Generally, if I have a live worm at harvest, I'll find them dangling from hanging buds, unable to produce enough silk to reach the floor.

They die a horrible death...


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## geminirat (Aug 13, 2011)

i use neem oil once evey 3 weeks! i stop using it 3 weeks before harvest, seems to do the trick


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## geminirat (Aug 13, 2011)

i use neem oil once every 3 weeks and stop using it 3 weeks before harvest! this seems to work best for me, i use to pick them out by hand and thats a pain! since i started using neem oil i have no more pests


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## slipknot1 (Aug 14, 2011)

Has anyone tried to put window screening around your girls to actually keep out the moths?


----------



## veggiegardener (Aug 15, 2011)

slipknot1 said:


> Has anyone tried to put window screening around your girls to actually keep out the moths?


My greenhouses rarely get worms. Occasionally a butterfly will get in, and lay a few eggs, but I've been lucky and noticed them. I sprayed, and never found a worm.

Screen would work, but screen blocks some of the sunlight, lowering yield.


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## slipknot1 (Aug 15, 2011)

I hear ya but it definitely sounds better than throwing away alot of good bud that has been infected with worms so I am trying that this year to see what happens since I got ruled with worms last year and I even sprayed BT bastards still got me. I have my girls where they get full sun from 7 in the morning to 5:30 in the evening. I know the screen will filter the sun but I would rather have a lil filtered sun than worms.


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## mwooten102 (Aug 16, 2011)

.. these dirty rotten motherfuckers are everywhere !!! gah !


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## doublejj (Aug 17, 2011)

I use sunscreen mesh for the greenhouse walls, works great. 

Like VG, I rarely get worms. Mesh works great, more than makes up for any lower yield!

peace
doublejj


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## Joedank (Aug 18, 2011)

spinosad, then neem for me weekly till golfballs.... and to throw my two cents in .there are studies showing diffused light is better for ladies due to a number of transpiration issues old ask ED stuff has him recomending using sailcloth to diffuse light to really get monsters. the pics show 20 foot wide/ tall monsters in 500 gallon pots under a circus tent of sailcloth ten foot spacing on plants. nothing about reduced yeilds only about how plants that are tall have a hard time getting water to tops in full sun .... my greenhouse plants always look tasty and less dustyView attachment 1741680View attachment 1741681View attachment 1741682


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## veggiegardener (Aug 18, 2011)

Joedank said:


> spinosad, then neem for me weekly till golfballs.... and to throw my two cents in .there are studies showing diffused light is better for ladies due to a number of transpiration issues old ask ED stuff has him recomending using sailcloth to diffuse light to really get monsters. the pics show 20 foot wide/ tall monsters in 500 gallon pots under a circus tent of sailcloth ten foot spacing on plants. nothing about reduced yeilds only about how plants that are tall have a hard time getting water to tops in full sun .... my greenhouse plants always look tasty and less dustyView attachment 1741680View attachment 1741681View attachment 1741682


Agreed, greenhouses provide a lot of benefits and a bit of downside, by protecting white flies and spider mites from predators. I use Solexx fabric, which is claimed to allow 75% of sunlight to pass through, yet the plants thrive and produce more per square foot that my outdoor garden.

During veg and early flowering, I wash my plants, inside the greenhouses and out, several times per week. This reduces harshness to a large degree, making smoking a much more pleasant experience.

Sometimes I think the younger generation(under 30) have become addicted to dirty weed. It seems that they prefer weed that causes lung irritation because of the head rushes caused by hard coughing.

Just an observation.


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## doublejj (Aug 18, 2011)

These guy's didn't think the sunscreen would be bad for their plants. 300 acres of pot under sunscreen!

peace
doublejj


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## Moteasah (Aug 19, 2011)

mwooten102 said:


> .. these dirty rotten motherfuckers are everywhere !!! gah !


I check my stuff a couple times a day and I just don't see ANYTHING. Maybe the spinosad I'm using as a preventative really is helping? I haven't seen one single butterfly though outside yet, only moths.


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## justsmoked (Aug 21, 2011)

Someone was telling me hummingbirds help? Anyone know about that?


----------



## pabloesqobar (Aug 21, 2011)

I've got plenty of hummingbirds around my grow. Never helped.


----------



## veggiegardener (Aug 21, 2011)

Hummingbirds eat nectar. I've never heard of them eating critters.


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## diskodan (Aug 22, 2011)

dragonflies are predators.


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## TwistedGenetics (Aug 23, 2011)

Yep. Dragonflies and Damselflies are spectacular predators, especially of mosquito. 

If you have a guerrilla grow near a body of standing water, or sometimes streams- you probably have these near your babies. Both the predators, and the mosquitoes.

I, for one, have been getting bit up! After a few weeks of dryness in early July, all we have had is rain.


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## ST Grower (Aug 23, 2011)

this is gonna sound weird, but smoke those fuckers. theve been eatin bud there full of thc


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## 420tycoon (Aug 23, 2011)

aha green slimy doobie anyone? ^^^ hilarious id prolli eat em but doubt u could smoke a bug....


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## johnny garcia (Aug 24, 2011)

will azamax help with the war?


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## <3too.grow (Aug 25, 2011)

can someone tell me if these are finished?


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## RawBudzski (Aug 25, 2011)

mMmm Bud Worms.. Nice & Crunchy if you cure them just right.. you're a lucky one.


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## <3too.grow (Aug 25, 2011)

i have no budworms youre trippin


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## imagreenwitya (Aug 25, 2011)

Dont look close to done to me, bout another 30 days or so I bet.


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## 420tycoon (Aug 25, 2011)

@ &#8249;3togrow, this the caterpillar forum. u must b trippin to put bud porn on a bud war forum lol but yea no cigar yet, got a few weeks left


----------



## <3too.grow (Aug 26, 2011)

so sorry mann..sheesh. best of luck on eliminating all those fuckin worms and shits out of your DANK! im just here for the bud porn, thought id show mine. i really dont advise smoking them tho


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## 420tycoon (Aug 26, 2011)

u should start a forum, id like to see those buds when they finished bruh


----------



## SweetestCheeba (Aug 26, 2011)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


Plz explain to me how u got theose plants so damn big in soil


----------



## <3too.grow (Aug 26, 2011)

420tycoon said:


> u should start a forum, id like to see those buds when they finished bruh


i have a forum its in outdoor "called 2011 outdoor gorilla" ..should be in my thread. pop by! ill update soon


----------



## <3too.grow (Aug 26, 2011)

nvm its called "2011 guerilla early finishers"**


----------



## fisch28 (Aug 28, 2011)

Soo I just picked 25+ caterpillars and worms off my ATF plant that is almost ready to harvest. I found one and just kept digging through. The plant is only 2.5 feet tall..ill throw some pics up shortly.


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## pabloesqobar (Aug 28, 2011)

fisch28 said:


> Soo I just picked 25+ caterpillars and worms off my ATF plant that is almost ready to harvest. I found one and just kept digging through. The plant is only 2.5 feet tall..ill throw some pics up shortly.


Damn, that sucks . . . I feel your pain. I chose to harvest early. Best of luck whatever you decide.


----------



## fisch28 (Aug 29, 2011)

Yeah I'm going to head out and give it a look again. Found a black widow on her yesterday..just hoping no more freakin worms! Otherwise might pull it..


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## imagreenwitya (Aug 30, 2011)

Been spraying with BT this year since the ladies were 1ft tall, at this point no worms whatsoever. BT is a godsend  (I will try to post tome pics later)


----------



## pabloesqobar (Aug 30, 2011)

imagreenwitya said:


> Been spraying with BT this year since the ladies were 1ft tall, at this point no worms whatsoever. BT is a godsend  (I will try to post tome pics later)



I sprayed with BT this year as well. No worms. However, I haven't seen a single butterfly (the kind that lay the eggs) around this year. I've seen this one white butterfly, but it never caused a problem. Veggiegardner posted some pics of what I'm talking about. Those were nonexistent this year.


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## fisch28 (Aug 30, 2011)

pabloesqobar said:


> I sprayed with BT this year as well. No worms. However, I haven't seen a single butterfly (the kind that lay the eggs) around this year. I've seen this one white butterfly, but it never caused a problem. Veggiegardner posted some pics of what I'm talking about. Those were nonexistent this year.


So the white butterflies usually don't cause you any problems? I killed 3 today, feel a lil bad now lol. Missed all of the brown ones and orange ones and the moths...guess they're already expecting the punishment I'm lookin to give them and the white ones are like what the heck mayn I'm not leaving my babies over there. ahhhh medication


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## Oskie301 (Aug 31, 2011)

im new what the F is BT, sorry i dont want worms in my girl its my first born lol and this only hapens cause of butterfly so if i havent seen not one this summer would i be ok?


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## imagreenwitya (Aug 31, 2011)

http://www.amazon.com/Safer-Brand-5160-Caterpillar-Killer/dp/B000GA7ZO8

BT, here you go. Better safe than sorry I say.


----------



## Moteasah (Aug 31, 2011)

<3too.grow said:


> can someone tell me if these are finished?


Hold on. I have to download your pictures and get out my magnifying glass and check your trichs.


----------



## husalife (Sep 3, 2011)

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]*Don&#8217;t Bug Me® Environmentally Friendly Insect Spray

I* Love this stuff, no bug problems since I have started spraying with it. Is a bit on the high dollar

side but it works well.

It contains : Pyrethrins 0.02% & Piperonyl Butoxide, Technical 0.20%


[/FONT]


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Sep 3, 2011)

i lost one again this year to em, i only sprayed twice, and i think i started a bit later than i should have but i thought it would have been enough i guess i gotta spray from about a foot tall but how long can i go for and how frequent can my sprayings be, thats what im confused on.


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## husalife (Sep 4, 2011)

I guess that would depend on your spray of choice. 

First, I'd look on the back and see what the directions say. Not meaning to be a smart ass by any means. Just see what the company says to do

I Usually spray when I start to see bugs on the girls again about every 2 weeks maybe every 2 1/2 weeks 

with Dont Bug Me.


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## Bigapple420 (Sep 4, 2011)

Ya the safer caterpillar killer is suppose to be used every 3 days. It also recommends that you spray at dusk because the sun makes BT dissipate so soaking all night helps a lot.


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## doublejj (Sep 4, 2011)

I'm spraying Azatrol twice a week

peace
doublejj


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## husalife (Sep 5, 2011)

doublejj said:


> I'm spraying Azatrol twice a week
> 
> peace
> doublejj


In the little jug you squeeze to get your measured amount? I used that last year and it worked out pretty good.

I just didnt spray early enough in the life stage / bud stage and worms got me anyhow.


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## obijohn (Sep 5, 2011)

Don't Bug Me is good for whiteflies and thrips, but doesn't do a lot IME against budworms. You need Spinosad or BT and spray it into the buds, something specific to caterpillars. lat year I was infested by the time I figured it out, but weekly Spinosad applications saved my crop.

By the way, budworms are moth larvae, not butterfly


----------



## blower (Sep 5, 2011)

Hey do you guys recommend any foliar spray or any pest repellent that Is home remedy and organic. They are outdoors and in mid flowering. Maybe something to place around soil???


----------



## blower (Sep 6, 2011)

Tobacco or something called miety
Mite...


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## fullmeltmonsta (Sep 6, 2011)

cotinue pluckin 'em.. i got one or 2 those size and you have to be on point when looking. they blend in. i would say continue the hard work without pesticides itll pay off. iv found some so far this year, not many though. maybe because i just got mmy place tented for bugs/:


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## UncleBuck (Sep 6, 2011)

i don't notice many moths in my area outside of portland, though i do see the odd one or two at night flying around light fixtures.

this is my first time outside, i will be combing through buds tomorrow to check. so far, just the normal aphids, mites and whiteflies. 

3,000 ladybugs were of no help. might be time for me to clean off the sprayer and get to work.


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## veggiegardener (Sep 7, 2011)

blower said:


> Hey do you guys recommend any foliar spray or any pest repellent that Is home remedy and organic. They are outdoors and in mid flowering. Maybe something to place around soil???


Safer Caterpillar Spray is all organic. The active ingredient is a Bacteria(Bacillus Thurengiensis) and can not affect humans. I've been using it for over two decades with excellent results.


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## blower (Sep 8, 2011)

Ok. Just feed to soil??


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## blower (Sep 9, 2011)

Hey when a plant is indica and you want to harvest with full amber thc. When does one start to flush or cut?
The same question for sativa ??


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## veggiegardener (Sep 9, 2011)

blower said:


> Hey when a plant is indica and you want to harvest with full amber thc. When does one start to flush or cut?
> The same question for sativa ??


Probably the wrong place for the question, but, the short answer is "Never." I usually leave a few buds on selected plants well into December. I don't think I've ever seen 100% amber. The most was about 50%. 

Personally, I think going beyond 25% is counterproductive, regarding potency, as amber trichomes are a sign of THC oxidation.

If you prefer extremely sedative herb, you might consider picking strains for that quality. In my experience, Granddaddy Purple was the best for sleeping.


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## MediMaryUser (Sep 10, 2011)

am i supposed to pick eggs off as while as spray? ive sprayed safer caterpilliar spray since before i even flowered and i haven beenspraying still and i have no caterpilliars but everyone else i know does and i see about a dozen eggs daily if i look closely maybe more and tweezer them out lol


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## veggiegardener (Sep 10, 2011)

MediMaryUser said:


> am i supposed to pick eggs off as while as spray? ive sprayed safer caterpilliar spray since before i even flowered and i haven beenspraying still and i have no caterpilliars but everyone else i know does and i see about a dozen eggs daily if i look closely maybe more and tweezer them out lol


Pick any eggs off when you trim.

You are spraying effectively.

You shouldn't see one live worm.

Good job!

(If you just can't stand it, remove the eggs. It shouldn't cause any harm. Truthfully I've never even looked for eggs, but I've been using Bt for nearly three decades.)


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## MediMaryUser (Sep 10, 2011)

so i really dont need to worry about picking out the eggs cuz i was afraid they would start like breaking down and causing mold or bud rot the same as the caterpilliars shit does thats my question cuz they are hard to get out and ill leave em if i have to and when there on hairs it rips the hair off its almost impossible not to rip the hair off when tweezing a sticky egg of of it


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## veggiegardener (Sep 10, 2011)

MediMaryUser said:


> so i really dont need to worry about picking out the eggs cuz i was afraid they would start like breaking down and causing mold or bud rot the same as the caterpilliars shit does thats my question cuz they are hard to get out and ill leave em if i have to and when there on hairs it rips the hair off its almost impossible not to rip the hair off when tweezing a sticky egg of of it


I don't mind losing the pistils ASAP, because they contain no THC.

I had a strange Durban Poison suddenly drop ALL the pistils at once, about four weeks into flower. It produced no new flowers, but every calyx swelled to impressive size, covered with very large, very dense, trichomes. Excellent weed.


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## blower (Sep 11, 2011)

Hey for any indoor or outdoor. So for a sativa strain does one flush by 50% cloudy tall trichomes?
For indica 50% amber??
I have sprayed BT INSECT SOAP 
Outdoor plants some have red hairs 40%
others a lot of white pistils
So I hope that the spray kills these caterpillars green and brown pests.


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## veggiegardener (Sep 11, 2011)

My best results come with all cloudy, with 0% to 25% amber, depending on strain.


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## blower (Sep 11, 2011)

Hey y'all. I have outdoor bud damage from green and brown caterpillars
Last night we deep sprayed BT INSECT SOAP. Will go and buy neem oil. Any other tips??
How to clean their poop off bud?


----------



## trento (Sep 11, 2011)

hi guys and gals.I am a certified organic grower.my main pastime is veggies of all sorts.I have been growing the demon weed for decades as I'm a child of the 50's.I use a product for bugs called spinosad.It works on many kinds of critters and is real good for leaf miners and worms.It is 100% organic and is safe up to one day before harvest.As far as ingesting in the smoke I dont know anyone that can answer that.One of the science guys can do a study maybe.Any way,the active ingredient is a naturally ocurring element called spinosin and is used for foliage feeding worms and such.It is a recent arrival on the scene so thats why you may not have heard of it yet.IT is OMRI listed and sanctioned by all the organic regulatory bodies.AND IT WORKS!!! like a hot damn.I used to have leaf miner so bad on my spinach and other greens that i have to waste the entire crop.Now i dont worry.I have done a control with the girls and there is 100% satisfaction.Look it up.I searched and found it by mail order but it should be at the garden centers.


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## trento (Sep 11, 2011)

ChemoBoy said:


> Yes you can pick the worms at night -- use a flashlight but remember that you'll stress your plants like that with light in the dark hours. And forget the other sprays. Get a caterpillar killer that has BT in it. Safer Caterpillar killer is one of the two I got, from a garden store. The other one is called Thuricide from Home Depot. Both are little bottles, about 10-12 bucks, but they make enough spray for 10 years prolly. Read the directions, follow them. Spray every 2-3 weeks and squish every worm you see.


there is a somewhat new product on the market called spinosad.100% organic and OMRI listed.I am an organic certified grower and this stuff works beautifully for foliage feeding worms and insects.An outfit called Monterey is one of the makers.I found it online but some garden centers will have it.BT works for some critters but there is some guarded information about ingesting it.Where I live in BC bud country they used to use it for gypsy moth control but stopped that because of certain studies that showed some danger to humans.IF you care about what you put in your body dont use it.IT is suspect.you can research spinosad for your self and make a no-brainer decision.


----------



## squarepush3r (Sep 13, 2011)

one of my farms in san diego got manhandled by worms the past few weeks.


----------



## grizlbr (Sep 13, 2011)

pabloesqobar said:


> I've got plenty of hummingbirds around my grow. Never helped.


 No real flowers and nectar to drink.


----------



## Grow Info (Sep 14, 2011)

I picked off around 15 worms 2 days ago off one plant, examining the entire plant extremely thoroughly (all over the buds, tops, bottoms, sides, etc etc), and re-examining each day now, and there hasn't been any worms since. Do you guys think I have gotten all of them and won't have another invasion?

P.S. -- I fed the worms to my Carnivorous Fly-Trap Plant for some pay-back!!! =)


----------



## vangrav (Sep 15, 2011)

because their little bodies are protein and thc...good food source


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## dbudman (Sep 16, 2011)

veggiegardener said:


> Safer Caterpillar Spray is all organic. The active ingredient is a Bacteria(Bacillus Thurengiensis) and can not affect humans. I've been using it for over two decades with excellent results.


Hey Veggie...
When you spray, how heavy do you spray? I would think it would be hard to get the spray into the dense buds when you are close to harvest.
That seems to be the only time these bastards strike. Then after you spray do you shake the branches to try kind of wring our the buds to minimize risk of powdery mildew?
I understand it is recommended to spray for 3 days concurrently.

This is the first time I got em and am trying to learn what I can from those who have won the battle in fighting them off. 
I think next year I am going to build a screened enclosure to keep the bastards out.


----------



## imagreenwitya (Sep 16, 2011)

Personally I spray 2xweek with recommended dose, I soak them good with 1/4 gallon sprayed on each plant each time. I'm in SoCal so mold isn't really an issue as things dry out quick here. BT is best used as a preventative. If you start spraying early, before you see any caterpillars you have a good chance of never seeing any.

https://www.rollitup.org/outdoor-growing/465175-socal-updates-w-pics-course.html

Here is the 2011 outdoor crop, started spraying at 1ft. twice a week (2tsp per gal http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OBIP20/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000GA7ZO8&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0T32VQ57WMZ9VH7N11ZT , whole gallon sprayed each time over 4 plants total) So far zero caterpillars found. Last 2 seasons we had them bad.

I know that doesn't help you now but next season it will.


----------



## doublejj (Sep 16, 2011)

What ever you spray, get a fogger!

Well worth the $200, it will save more than that much bud!

A must have

peace
doublejj


----------



## smokedogg69 (Sep 17, 2011)

View attachment 1792029View attachment 1792025View attachment 1792021hi all. im a newb here. this is my second garden this years pics........ yah all like?


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## smokedogg69 (Sep 17, 2011)

my main pest, an i know this sounds weird, but rolly polly bugs, the ones that curl up into a ball. yes they eat my leaves by climbing up the wooden fences, little coc* suckers. and of course white flyes but not too many at all anymore too cold at night. those rolly pollys loved my tester clones i clipped and put in the ground with the bottom of a 2 L bottle covering over top of the clone, the next morning the clone was chopped down like beaves do trees, lol wish i took a pic of that


----------



## smokedogg69 (Sep 18, 2011)

new pics update today


----------



## smotpoker541 (Sep 18, 2011)

are the pink hairs bad?


----------



## grizlbr (Sep 20, 2011)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


 The bacteria attacks the gut of cattepillars and they starve to death! Different strain for masquitos. What happened to auto spell check? Sun light kills the bacteria so a couple of days out side should kill it.


----------



## dirtgirl (Sep 23, 2011)

What kind of worm and can I get rid of them this late in the game (bout 2/3 weeks from harvest)? And if so how? I have found maybe a dozen between 3 plants.


----------



## hazyintentions (Sep 23, 2011)

dirtgirl said:


> What kind of worm and can I get rid of them this late in the game (bout 2/3 weeks from harvest)? And if so how? I have found maybe a dozen between 3 plants. View attachment 1802279


Fuck those fuckers! 

Spray your babies with a BT based spray ASAP. 

In the meantime, mercilessly inspect you plants and kills all parasites that would not stopp eating your buds until they are gone, i've lost 60% of a plant because I didn't prepare or react soon enough, don't make my mistake.


----------



## vivyvalle (Sep 26, 2011)

So what is BT and Where do I get it in general? I'm a first time grower in Socal.


----------



## vivyvalle (Sep 26, 2011)

Where can I get this?


----------



## pabloesqobar (Sep 26, 2011)

vivyvalle said:


> Where can I get this?


Home Depot carries it.


----------



## fisch28 (Sep 27, 2011)

i hate these things..


----------



## GreenTreeMachine420 (Sep 28, 2011)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


Im not sure of the strains but are the from seed? Can't tell from you pics. I got a few in my monkey-gro that are crazy pink like yours but less dense and more on the elf side, not so big. Mine are from seed, my cultivated calls it snicklefritz..


----------



## closetkush (Sep 30, 2011)

made a video of the caterpillar catastrophe I am faced with, please watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eRTlJ2EMrA
this fella hasn't left in about a month, hope he will learn to seek out the motherfuckers


----------



## ClaytonBigsby (Oct 1, 2011)

I have only found this one. Am I not looking close enough or is it possible he's the only one?


----------



## closetkush (Oct 2, 2011)

i doubt there is only one, you have to spread each flower open and look between where they hide, if you see a bunch of rotting brown buds that fall apart when you touch them, there is caterpillar activity


----------



## obijohn (Oct 4, 2011)

Monterey Spinosad works great and is safe to use


----------



## HUSTLERBOY20 (Oct 5, 2011)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> Here's some pics of my two plants progress. You can see the damage done to one of the buds and one of our crawly little pests.
> ...





what do those thing even turn into ? butterflies ?


----------



## doublejj (Oct 6, 2011)

Yes, or moths

peace
doublejj


----------



## pritighij (Oct 23, 2011)

hi i wold like to say the warm season is like to the in India required


----------



## pabloesqobar (Oct 24, 2011)

pritighij said:


> hi i wold like to say the warm season is like to the in India required


Took the words right out of my mouth.


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## Majik260 (Oct 28, 2011)

catapillers this year were horrid I used the bt catapiller killer (2tsp p.Gal moved onto 2.5tsp p.Gal) spraying every 4 days but was still getting tons of them. Then I started to get powder mildew so I made solution (drop of dish soap, tsp of baking soda, quart of water) but that seemed to make it worse and burned the pistols from white to brown. Dunno what happend this year but next year im making a greenhouse. Plants were looking so good too before they budded and catapillers and powder mildew got them.


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## WesternBotany (Dec 15, 2011)

This thread makes me very glad I'm an indoor grower. Those things are disgusting!


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## ojaijim (Dec 23, 2011)

Try Capt Jacks dead bug brew


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## perry420 (Jan 12, 2012)

Damn man that is really shitty,

I can't believe this is so prevalent for outdoors. I have never had a chance to successfully flower outdoors. I remember once I had a healthy beautiful sprout and I checked it one day and there was a worm on the stem. It had eaten everything. The little true leaves and the new ones just coming out. Bugs love to attack plants


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## perry420 (Jan 12, 2012)

yea smokin's real good for that shit


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## The3rdisight (Feb 5, 2012)

Mmmm. Cutworms. Got pilfered last year. My neighbor has had success with using Roundup to kill surrounding vegetation on and in your grow in spring, tilling the garden in early May and using a combination of Garden Take-down, BT and Tea to Foley feed through the year (no less then once a week), then use Avid (we have a bad leaf-hopper issue) ONCE! 4 weeks before harvest, at the last three weeks of flower avoid the colas as much as possible.


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## veggiegardener (Feb 5, 2012)

For best results, spray Bt four months from today, and repeat every three weeks(or more) until four weeks before harvest. Spray your girls down with water, a few days later. Enough Bt will remain to make the worms dead.


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## themullet (Mar 31, 2012)

middle of a joint question. during a full moon the light bouncing off the only other rock humans have shit upon, equals at least a couple thousand lumens, maybe 100s. who knows. now during flowering stages does this decrease in photosynthesis producing light affect production. meaning growers of the outdoor nature encounter this for damn near a wk once a month. and ive never seen photo evidence of a 13 pound single plant grown under lights. but if the exact same light quality (lumen count, intesity etc) conditions are employed with regularly employed lighting fixtures what potential effect would be encountered.


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## Kb's seeds (Apr 2, 2012)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...



hey i didnt read all the pages of this forum so idk if someone already mentiond this but Monteray garden insect spray works better than BT in my experince i have tried BT and safer and the Monteray spray works best, its all organic made from spinsosad which is naturally occuring soil bacteria found in a old wine distellery, u dont want to use as often as BT cause u dont have to just a couple sprays a season will do, once the worms ingest the spinosad they die within a day or two and fall down into soil and get broken down, also takin preventive measures and begining of season will help, make sure u dont plant right next to silk or oak trees, also go to a nursery and buy sum orb weaving spiders, they are the spiders that spin a web between trees that kinda resemble a a circle, u can find them online if ur local nursery doesnt have them, then eat the moths before they can lay the eggs for the catipillars, also i know there is a certain type of wasp that will attack catipillars but ive never used em so idk how good results are, i have used the spiders tho i usually start gettin em out in the area this month, but definitly try the monteray garden insect spray ul like the results


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## Kb's seeds (Apr 2, 2012)

The3rdisight said:


> Mmmm. Cutworms. Got pilfered last year. My neighbor has had success with using Roundup to kill surrounding vegetation on and in your grow in spring, tilling the garden in early May and using a combination of Garden Take-down, BT and Tea to Foley feed through the year (no less then once a week), then use Avid (we have a bad leaf-hopper issue) ONCE! 4 weeks before harvest, at the last three weeks of flower avoid the colas as much as possible.


why are u using avid? there are plenty of other ways to get rid of leaf hoppers instead of using avid even if u spray once it still will be somewhat contaimented, look for natural predators for the leaf hoppers and get them out there early like when ur tilling ur garden, but please consider not using avid im not trying to sound like a dick or anything jus kinda concerned for your health cause avid is not meant to be consumed even in minute traces


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## JuGG4l0 (Apr 2, 2012)

I bet those worms are gettin high as shit.


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## The3rdisight (Apr 2, 2012)

Yeah. Had to wear a suit and respirator for that shit...
It actually wasn't my call to use it. 
It worked. But because of the lazy asses running the hill that waited til the leafhoppers and worms spread like the plague before doing any thing about it,
we either lose the crop or spray that gnarly stuff. They choose to use it and it worked. It's my hill now. Would I use it again?; only if it was my last resort.
Although I meant to say in the directions "Use once, 4 weeks into veg".


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## Kb's seeds (Apr 3, 2012)

The3rdisight said:


> Yeah. Had to wear a suit and respirator for that shit...
> It actually wasn't my call to use it.
> It worked. But because of the lazy asses running the hill that waited til the leafhoppers and worms spread like the plague before doing any thing about it,
> we either lose the crop or spray that gnarly stuff. They choose to use it and it worked. It's my hill now. Would I use it again?; only if it was my last resort.
> Although I meant to say in the directions "Use once, 4 weeks into veg".



i hear ya if its lose the crop or spray id spray, sucks when its not ur fault but other lazy growers faults, had the same problem with last years outdoor one of the patients cultivating their meds did real good and was really enthusiastic for the whole veg cycle but as soon as they started budding idk what happend to his enthusiasm, he just let his plants fall over didnt try to stake didnt pick of the dead undercarriage it got bad quick, but since they were his i didnt cut them, well round end of september i convinced him to pick his white widow off the ground and trim it up a bit so undercarrage bud would get sum light, when he pickd it up and i could see the soil underneath it the soil lookd alive cause it was completely covered in worms that were working there way to the other plants most importantly mine, luckly it was closer to end of season so damage was mimnal but could have been worse if we didnt start spraying the spinosad then, i sprayed with the spinsoad they went with safer so i got to see a pretty good side by side trial and the spinosad is the shit if will work for other insects as well check it out if u gota bad bug problem this upcoming summer


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## The3rdisight (Apr 3, 2012)

Kb's seeds said:


> i hear ya if its lose the crop or spray id spray, sucks when its not ur fault but other lazy growers faults, had the same problem with last years outdoor one of the patients cultivating their meds did real good and was really enthusiastic for the whole veg cycle but as soon as they started budding idk what happend to his enthusiasm, he just let his plants fall over didnt try to stake didnt pick of the dead undercarriage it got bad quick, but since they were his i didnt cut them, well round end of september i convinced him to pick his white widow off the ground and trim it up a bit so undercarrage bud would get sum light, when he pickd it up and i could see the soil underneath it the soil lookd alive cause it was completely covered in worms that were working there way to the other plants most importantly mine, luckly it was closer to end of season so damage was mimnal but could have been worse if we didnt start spraying the spinosad then, i sprayed with the spinsoad they went with safer so i got to see a pretty good side by side trial and the spinosad is the shit if will work for other insects as well check it out if u gota bad bug problem this upcoming summer


Man. If I didn't know any better I think I know who you're talking about!

Thanks for the spinosad info!


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## Favre2Harvin (Apr 5, 2012)

Kb's seeds said:


> why are u using avid? there are plenty of other ways to get rid of leaf hoppers instead of using avid even if u spray once it still will be somewhat contaimented, look for natural predators for the leaf hoppers and get them out there early like when ur tilling ur garden, but please consider not using avid im not trying to sound like a dick or anything jus kinda concerned for your health cause avid is not meant to be consumed even in minute traces


wow, I am glad I started reading this thread, funny your mentioning leaf hoppers. I had a bug on my small outdoor crop last year and could not figure out what it was at all. Then I just googled leaf hoppers and it was the exact same bug I saw on my crop. 

I wish I had known how to control them last yr. I ended up finding a few worms in my buds. Will the Spinosad that you mentioned work for the leaf hoppers as well do you think? 
Thanks.

F2H


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## obijohn (Apr 5, 2012)

Spinosad works on any critter that ingests it


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## RawBudzski (Apr 5, 2012)

What is worse.. . A plant that begins to hermi due to stress midway in bloom or having mad bud worms days from chop.


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## The3rdisight (Apr 8, 2012)

Favre2Harvin said:


> wow, I am glad I started reading this thread, funny your mentioning leaf hoppers. I had a bug on my small outdoor crop last year and could not figure out what it was at all. Then I just googled leaf hoppers and it was the exact same bug I saw on my crop.
> 
> I wish I had known how to control them last yr. I ended up finding a few worms in my buds. Will the Spinosad that you mentioned work for the leaf hoppers as well do you think?
> Thanks.
> ...


I think spinosad is more for the critters(caterpillars, etc) that eat the plant matter. 
It may keep them off the plant but leafhoppers suck the juices with their poison mandibles. 
I'm gonna try this:Permethrin

It says insecticides with permethrin or resmethrin work on leafhoppers. Garden Take-Down has the unsynthesized version pyrethrum. 
But it doesn't hold up to the elements like per/resmethrin does.


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## Favre2Harvin (Apr 10, 2012)

Has anyone ever used AzaMax? I was thinking of trying this.


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## Kb's seeds (Apr 15, 2012)

Seamaiden said:


> I couldn't quite determine how big that bud worm was. A week or two ago I found a little brown caterpillar thing in one of my girls, and I picked it off. Now I'm noticing that I have what locals call "meat bees" picking through my plants, and I'm wondering if they're finding and eating more of these little things I found. It was between 1/4"-18" long.
> 
> What's the BT, or the bacteria that are in it?
> 
> Are the GrowFAQs back up yet?



one of the budworms (i call em catipillar worms) natural predators is either some type of wasp or bee i cant remeber the exact name of the type of wasp or bee but ya its prolly pickin thru and eatin the worms, idk how gentle the bees are with ur buds tho and remeber bees carry pollen so if there is another garden in the area with a male or hermie in it the bees might bring that pollen ur way, i use spinosad instead of bt, i get the monteray garden insect spray which has spinosad in it, its all organic and omri rated, ive had better results with spinosad than bt, spinosad is naturally occuring soil bacteria, i think bt has bacctillus subtillus (<-prolly not spelled right) in it


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## Kb's seeds (Apr 15, 2012)

Favre2Harvin said:


> wow, I am glad I started reading this thread, funny your mentioning leaf hoppers. I had a bug on my small outdoor crop last year and could not figure out what it was at all. Then I just googled leaf hoppers and it was the exact same bug I saw on my crop.
> 
> I wish I had known how to control them last yr. I ended up finding a few worms in my buds. Will the Spinosad that you mentioned work for the leaf hoppers as well do you think?
> Thanks.
> ...



never had to use with leaf hoppers, i think obijohn got it right, if they ingest it it will kill them, but im not guarenteeing it, il do sum research see if anybody has any leaf hoppers in the gardens yet (i know alot people who grow winter food crops like broccelli and rose greenhouse gardens too) it might be alittle to early in the year but if i kno someone who has got sum living in the greenhouse il go do a test with the spinosad and let u kno the results


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## UnderCoverAgentOrange (Apr 25, 2012)

whats the full name for BT?


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## veggiegardener (Apr 26, 2012)

Bacillus thuringiensis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_thuringiensis


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## ghettocowboy (Apr 28, 2012)

what is bt im a new growwer and im trying to get some good tips


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## obijohn (Apr 29, 2012)

The post above yours links to the info


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## imagreenwitya (May 1, 2012)

Been using BT for years, works like a charm.


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## Smallgrowoutdoors (May 2, 2012)

What if my plant is 3weeks flowering and I sprayed soapy water all over her what would happen please help


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## ZigZagXain (May 2, 2012)

Thought I should post this in here, I built this screenhouse structure with fine insect netting last year for the sole purpose of taking care of budworms. Without it, we get ridiculous infestations of caterpillers just wrecking shit. I used BT with ok results years previous but it just wasnt the same, and they are still being birthed b4 they ingest the BT, that just wasn't good enough for me. The butterflies and moths now can lay alllll the eggs they want, they wont make it to the plants. I owe it all to "Mrcouchlok". He was on youtube for a while posting his outdoor and was extremely popular for a while but then vanished. I copied this design almost exactly from Mrcouchlok, im still so grateful that he ever posted his vids on youtube. I was on the fence about going all out and doing something so drastic to prevent the cat's, but he inspired me, and told me to do it and im glad I did. I hope he somehow sees this cuz I never got to show him when he closed his youtube and I know he would be stoked! I learned a lot from that dude. Theres always challenges but now I dont have to worry about cat's, EVER. I suggest anyone who has extreme problems with budworms do this, you can do it as big as you want or as small as you want. Heck if I had one plant I would cover it. Good luck as always I know how frustrating cat's can be.


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## blindbaby (May 23, 2012)

i have only grown one so far outside last year, and had no probs with any bugs. i put two of the same type out a week or so ago. (jack herers). looks like cataillars to me. from moths. i spread stuff on the lawn to keep bugs down. my prob with my one last year, was i had to harvest it on oct 19, because a start of bud rot. im lucky. i have only had gnats (and one potatoe bug), lol, inside. gnats come in all organic soil. i would freak if i saw my buds with worms on em. never heard em called "bud worms". whats the real name?


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## veggiegardener (May 31, 2012)

veggiegardener said:


> For best results, spray Bt four months from today, and repeat every three weeks(or more) until four weeks before harvest. Spray your girls down with water, a few days later. Enough Bt will remain to make the worms dead.


If you haven't bought it yet, it's time!


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## The3rdisight (Jun 8, 2012)

blindbaby said:


> i have only grown one so far outside last year, and had no probs with any bugs. i put two of the same type out a week or so ago. (jack herers). looks like cataillars to me. from moths. i spread stuff on the lawn to keep bugs down. my prob with my one last year, was i had to harvest it on oct 19, because a start of bud rot. im lucky. i have only had gnats (and one potatoe bug), lol, inside. gnats come in all organic soil. i would freak if i saw my buds with worms on em. never heard em called "bud worms". whats the real name?


They're called Cut-worms. Tobacco plant's worst enemy.


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## toocoolo (Jun 9, 2012)

ZigZagXain said:


> Thought I should post this in here, I built this screenhouse structure with fine insect netting last year for the sole purpose of taking care of budworms. Without it, we get ridiculous infestations of caterpillers just wrecking shit. I used BT with ok results years previous but it just wasnt the same, and they are still being birthed b4 they ingest the BT, that just wasn't good enough for me. The butterflies and moths now can lay alllll the eggs they want, they wont make it to the plants. I owe it all to "Mrcouchlok". He was on youtube for a while posting his outdoor and was extremely popular for a while but then vanished. I copied this design almost exactly from Mrcouchlok, im still so grateful that he ever posted his vids on youtube. I was on the fence about going all out and doing something so drastic to prevent the cat's, but he inspired me, and told me to do it and im glad I did. I hope he somehow sees this cuz I never got to show him when he closed his youtube and I know he would be stoked! I learned a lot from that dude. Theres always challenges but now I dont have to worry about cat's, EVER. I suggest anyone who has extreme problems with budworms do this, you can do it as big as you want or as small as you want. Heck if I had one plant I would cover it. Good luck as always I know how frustrating cat's can be.
> View attachment 2151367


This is awesome! Can you please point me out to the instructions to make one of those? I'd like to make a smaller one, but can't find Mrcouchlok.


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## Newbmeister (Jun 13, 2012)

Anybody have any suggestions for pest control? I've heard a few ways of making your own organic deterrents. Liquid soap and water is one. I've also heard stuff about cinnamon and garlic being used as well(not sure how well this stuff works). Any ideas/suggestions ? I'm already being attacked by unknown bugs. Not bad but its going to get worse if I don't act early on.


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## phenohype (Jun 17, 2012)

I would use some neem oil, it works wonders if you spray top and bottom of leaves every 2 weeks, not sure about BT though.


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Jun 17, 2012)

lady bugs and mantis's...poison bad


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## Greenhead910 (Jun 24, 2012)

neem oil do i spray in on direct or mix it with water if so how much. will neem oil take care of leafhoppers


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## veggiegardener (Jun 28, 2012)

BT is organic/non-poisonous. It kills only caterpillars from butterflies and moths. I've been using it for about 28 years. At first, my targets were Tomato Horn Worms. I haven't seen one of those in fifteen years. Bud worms are very destructive, if ignored. I spray every three weeks until about a month before harvest, starting a couple weeks ago.


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Jun 29, 2012)

So question for all whom may have insight into this matter. I know bud worms are devastating to cannabis plants but i am unsure of the moth or butterfly that lays the eggs for these buggers..I have broccoli and those white butterflies are laying eggs all over my shit and the caterpillars are chewing holes like it's no ones business. My question is do those cabbage butterflies care about cannabis or are they more so interested in my vegy's because Im finding various snail trail looking marks on my upper fan leaves about 2-3 feet off the soil surface and Im assuming snails don't just duck and dive that quick. any ideas


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## ZigZagXain (Jun 29, 2012)

HUSTLERBOY20 said:


> So question for all whom may have insight into this matter. I know bud worms are devastating to cannabis plants but i am unsure of the moth or butterfly that lays the eggs for these buggers..I have broccoli and those white butterflies are laying eggs all over my shit and the caterpillars are chewing holes like it's no ones business. My question is do those cabbage butterflies care about cannabis or are they more so interested in my vegy's because Im finding various snail trail looking marks on my upper fan leaves about 2-3 feet off the soil surface and Im assuming snails don't just duck and dive that quick. any ideas


Thats wishful thinking bro, those butterflies and moths are interested in anything in your backyard that produces lol I wouldnt risk it, if you have butterflies and moths laying eggs, they will soon be laying eggs on those buds forsure.


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Jun 29, 2012)

ZigZagXain said:


> Thats wishful thinking bro, those butterflies and moths are interested in anything in your backyard that produces lol I wouldnt risk it, if you have butterflies and moths laying eggs, they will soon be laying eggs on those buds forsure.



Im gunna strap some BT to a hand grenade and drop that sucker in the middle of my GH


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## ZigZagXain (Jun 30, 2012)

HUSTLERBOY20 said:


> Im gunna strap some BT to a hand grenade and drop that sucker in the middle of my GH


good call, bt goes a long way if your on top of your spraying regularly


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Jun 30, 2012)

So I come out to my garden this morning to Green GOO everywhere !!!...those bastards are bleeding from the inside out haha..DIIIEE !!


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## ZigZagXain (Jun 30, 2012)

hell yeah thats what I like to hear


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## veggiegardener (Jul 1, 2012)

Bt works on ALL caterpillars. In my area the Fiery Skipper is the egg laying culprit. Do a search to see what they look like(or just go back a ways where I posted pix). I used Bt for tomato horn worms and cabbage worms before discovering "bud worms". Spray regularly and thoroughly for best results.


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## Zig No Zag (Jul 1, 2012)

Someone please tell me what BT is?????


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Jul 1, 2012)

Zig No Zag said:


> Someone please tell me what BT is?????



Bacteria that poisons caterpillars only. doesn't hurts anything else in your garden. Apply close to sun down with a weed sprayer and watch the caterpillars bleed out literally. its a bacteria that eats them inside out and then they fall off the leaves. they have to eat a leaf treated with the stuff but it works extremely well...anything at lowes home depot or a home garden center that says BT caterpillar killer will kill those pillars with the bacteria...basilis theragensis= BT


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## 2much (Jul 5, 2012)

bacillus thurengenses


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Jul 9, 2012)

Can you mix BT with Dawn dish soap to make an all around killing solution ?


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## nowhereland (Jul 10, 2012)

^ been wondering if any1 does that with neem too? all around killing machine


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## greennewfie (Jul 10, 2012)

does anyone know if liquid seaweed extract works for those? i know the slugs and little green caterpillars hate it havent seen any since i started spraying them with the liquid seaweed extract...
i spray them every 2 to 3 days depending on the weather they seem to love the nutrients and hormones in it as well..
but this is my first grow using it as a spray so its experimental for now wondering if anyone has any experience with it??


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Jul 10, 2012)

greennewfie said:


> does anyone know if liquid seaweed extract works for those? i know the slugs and little green caterpillars hate it havent seen any since i started spraying them with the liquid seaweed extract...
> i spray them every 2 to 3 days depending on the weather they seem to love the nutrients and hormones in it as well..
> but this is my first grow using it as a spray so its experimental for now wondering if anyone has any experience with it??



causes crazy resin production kinda like Humboldts Snow Storm i gather


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## marines (Jul 11, 2012)

nowhereland said:


> ^ been wondering if any1 does that with neem too? all around killing machine


i mix half a teaspoon of dish soap with about a tablespoon of neem oil in a half gallon mister. havnt had any bug issues since ive started using it. im still gonna go get bt to prevent since im still in veg for a while. ive bener heard of those bud worms but i dont want them


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## greennewfie (Jul 12, 2012)

HUSTLERBOY20 said:


> causes crazy resin production kinda like Humboldts Snow Storm i gather


yeah the pic in my avatar was grown with it in the soil indoors which turned out crazy with lots of resin can see it in my flowering link below... 
but it seems to detour bugs as well i never used it as a spray outside first then we started to get attacked by slugs and these little green caterpillars that sucked the life outta the leaves and now they have all disapered i dont know if we get bud worms here but ill be ready in case lol..

i made my own liquid seaweed extract so i got tons of it to use so come on bugs lets see what ya got!!!


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## Badmf (Jul 13, 2012)

DIRTHAWKER said:


> I had to chop the colas off of two of my best plants and harvest early beacuse of these bud worms. What happends is, butterfly moths lay there eggs in the bud and a week or so later you get the worms that eat your bud and there excriment is what rots the bud from inside out.


So true but bo one is covering with bfine mesh screnning? Do it block out those lazy egg layers, you mat remove in the day if you want more light I soaked my netting in insecticide to make em like it even less.


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## spongey600 (Jul 16, 2012)

i use SAFER brand BT on my cannabis every 3-4 days good saoking, i also have used it on my pepper plants. but yesterday i was showing my buddy the pepper plants and i found a yellow jacket chomping the head off a caterpiller! it was AWESOME! here is a pic of the caterpillers head in the YJ mouth





then he flew away and came back for more!





pretty cool stuff, i have 20+ pepper plants and they get the worst of the pillers but i spray them religeously


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Jul 16, 2012)

wasps and yellows are carnivorus..get a can of chicken or tuna and yellow jackets will fight over it..there crazy but good garden bugs if you're not a chicken


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## Badmf (Jul 17, 2012)

Yo friends why not just net the plants ? I do remove during days.


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## angryblackman (Jul 20, 2012)

Badmf said:


> Yo friends why not just net the plants ? I do remove during days.


Unless your net is completely sealed you can still get them. Once you remove the net they can land and lay eggs and boom you have them again. It's best to combat them with beneficial insects or chemical warfare if you can't go a sealed greenhouse.


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## Badmf (Jul 20, 2012)

Been usin nets going on 45 years never the issues you state. Course its sealed lol.


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## blindbaby (Jul 21, 2012)

in in the pac nw. i have two jack herer outside. i had my first outdoor plant last year. had no worms. obviously, they come from lil butterflys? like cabbage worms?


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## Hasbroh (Jul 21, 2012)

2much said:


> bacillus thurengenses


You're getting closer...


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## smok3h (Jul 24, 2012)

Anybody in the northern Midwest have any issues with these?

My plant is just starting to flower, and I'm wondering if I should get some BT. I've never heard of anybody around here getting these before though.


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## Laney (Jul 25, 2012)

This is my 7th season (Southern IA) and I've never seen these. I am using BT this year for the first time because I was getting leaf rollers.


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## smok3h (Jul 25, 2012)

Laney said:


> This is my 7th season (Southern IA) and I've never seen these. I am using BT this year for the first time because I was getting leaf rollers.


Good to hear. 

From what I've read on here these things seem pretty heavy on the west coast and down south where it's a lot warmer. But I'm still curious to hear if anyone else near my location has had them.


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## firelane (Jul 25, 2012)

They are in Michigan. If you see a lot of moths around, you are should probably take precautions.


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## smok3h (Jul 25, 2012)

firelane said:


> They are in Michigan. If you see a lot of moths around, you are should probably take precautions.


There are a fair amount of moths here at night. Alright, I'll take precautions with BT. Thanks for the responses.


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## smok3h (Jul 26, 2012)

Went and looked at my plant last night, and sure as shit there was a moth chilling on one of my leaves. Little fuckers. THEY MUST DIE!!


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## FresnoFarmer (Jul 26, 2012)

I already have worms chopping on my leaves. time to break out the sevin dust. Once that's done I'm gonna start the BT applications. Little bastards.....I could already feel it. It's gonna be a long season with the early morning picking and spraying.


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## smok3h (Jul 26, 2012)

FresnoFarmer said:


> I already have worms chopping on my leaves. time to break out the sevin dust. Once that's done I'm gonna start the BT applications. Little bastards.....I could already feel it. It's gonna be a long season with the early morning picking and spraying.


What's the sevin dust for? Isn't the BT enough?


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## FresnoFarmer (Jul 26, 2012)

smok3h said:


> What's the sevin dust for? Isn't the BT enough?


I already have it. And it works on more than just worms. I just came back from a local nursery right now. I bought some Tanglefoot to help prevent the little bastards from crawling up the stocks of the plants. I hope this shit works. It was only 6.50 but still.


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## Laney (Jul 26, 2012)

FresnoFarmer said:


> I already have it. And it works on more than just worms. I just came back from a local nursery right now. I bought some Tanglefoot to help prevent the little bastards from crawling up the stocks of the plants. I hope this shit works. It was only 6.50 but still.


I have some Tanglefoot products that I use with great success. They are a marvel for keeping ants out of the hummingbird feeders. However, you have to be very careful applying directly to plants. Most people don't do that. Tamglefoot makes a tree tape to put on your tree and then paint the Tree Tanglefoot on that (there are several Tanglefoot products). Weatherstripping applied and then encased in aluminum foil works well for this. I have not used it on my ladies because they are LST'd with multiple routes of entry, like stakes and tomato cages, fencing and wire. Besides it would not help with the moths who lay their eggs on the plants.


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## smok3h (Jul 26, 2012)

Checked my plants again tonight, and found another visitor on my plant this time. This one, however, I will gladly welcome. This visitor was a tiny tree frog. I guess you could call it a froglet. Must have just outgrown it's tadpole state within the past few days. The past two nights my windows have just been absolutely covered in these little guys; it's awesome. I live on a lake (more like a giant pond, but officially it's a lake). This gives me hope that I'll have some assistance in my pest control. I can't believe I forgot about all the frogs and toads in my yard. They've probably been helping all summer and I just haven't realized it.


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## FresnoFarmer (Jul 26, 2012)

smok3h said:


> Checked my plants again tonight, and found another visitor on my plant this time. This one, however, I will gladly welcome. This visitor was a tiny tree frog. I guess you could call it a froglet. Must have just outgrown it's tadpole state within the past few days. The past two nights my windows have just been absolutely covered in these little guys; it's awesome. I live on a lake (more like a giant pond, but officially it's a lake). This gives me hope that I'll have some assistance in my pest control. I can't believe I forgot about all the frogs and toads in my yard. They've probably been helping all summer and I just haven't realized it.


I have praying mantis'(contemplating actually ordering some) in my potted garden. I also have a bunch of tiny quarter size frogs in my planting bed. I see them every time I water
they look pretty cool up close with a magnifying glass. Hopefully they are eating the moths at night over there. I skipped the sevin dust today and just started spraying the BT(wanna see if it actually works).


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## Teccmoney (Jul 27, 2012)

i have a ton of wasps in my garden everyday destroying all my unwanted pest and i spray with bt once every 2 weeks, hopefully i can stay bud worm free....


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## Laney (Jul 27, 2012)

I am spraying once a week and everything is going great. I was alternating neem and bt but, for the rest of the grow, I will be alternating bt with spinosad or azamax. Not liking the neem oil smell ... 

So far I seem to be keeping everything at bay. I did have a spate with some pretty persistent leaf rollers a few weeks back but I sprayed with permethrin (while waiting for the bt to arrive) and that wiped them out. I don't plan on repeating permethrin unless there is a persistent problem.


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Jul 28, 2012)

Im about ready to dunk my plants in BT..I keep finding pillars that are of a size pretty well visible which means he's been there a while..I just hack them in half with my scissors or drown them...I need a bug zapper or maybe ill just screen all the openings in the GH cause I'm starting to freak out whether or not the little ones are deep in the buds or not


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## greennewfie (Jul 29, 2012)

you need some liquid seaweed spray works amazing i have 3 local growers saved from the all out invasion of caterpillars 
1 friend almost lost everything he started using the spray i gave him and BAMMM!!! no more caterpillars lol!!


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## FresnoFarmer (Jul 29, 2012)

i found a huge praying mantis and a bunch of baby ones yesterday when watering my roses. yay!!


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Jul 30, 2012)

How long do you have to use mixed up BT if you mixed it up in a sprayer and say set it aside and ran into some hang ups but mean to come back and use that sprayer 2 days later..will the BT bugs die off in the sprayer ?


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## UncleBuck (Jul 30, 2012)

HUSTLERBOY20 said:


> How long do you have to use mixed up BT if you mixed it up in a sprayer and say set it aside and ran into some hang ups but mean to come back and use that sprayer 2 days later..will the BT bugs die off in the sprayer ?


my bottle says use within 24 hours.


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## Laney (Jul 30, 2012)

HUSTLERBOY20 said:


> How long do you have to use mixed up BT if you mixed it up in a sprayer and say set it aside and ran into some hang ups but mean to come back and use that sprayer 2 days later..will the BT bugs die off in the sprayer ?


With stuff like that, I'll usually just spray it on my tomatoes and mix a new batch for the girls


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Jul 30, 2012)

UncleBuck said:


> my bottle says use within 24 hours.



Thanks...will the water in BT cause a GH jungle fire ? I saw yours and I'm starting to get scared it may happen to me


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## UncleBuck (Jul 30, 2012)

HUSTLERBOY20 said:


> Thanks...will the water in BT cause a GH jungle fire ? I saw yours and I'm starting to get scared it may happen to me


make sure to spray at sundown or just before sunrise so that the sun does not cause that combustion. same goes for neem.


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## FresnoFarmer (Jul 30, 2012)

It's best to spray at night so there is no danger......keep all porch lights off though


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## gioua (Jul 31, 2012)

Ok......... i tried to read the whole thread. 
Is there a post which shows the eggs of these worms?

n.m

https://www.rollitup.org/attachments/bugs/557145d1253730496-budworms-everything-you-need-know-bollworm_eggs_on_leaf2.jpg


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## veggiegardener (Aug 1, 2012)

gioua said:


> Ok......... i tried to read the whole thread.
> Is there a post which shows the eggs of these worms?
> 
> n.m
> ...


Your attachment looks like the eggs I occasionally find when trimming. Some are in clusters of 10 to 30 eggs. I rarel;y find a live worm, because I spray Bt every few weeks. Although I don't recommend it, I've found left over mixed Bt to still be effective for a month or more if kept in a cool sunless place(my garden shed).


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Aug 2, 2012)

Alright guys, so after having to chop 2 plants because of those damn worms/caterpillars I decided to take it upon myself and give up on the Mantises to solve my problem and utterly hosed the shit out of my plants. I mixed up 2.5 Tbsp of BT per gal and hosed my plants 4 separate times with the final tally at 4gallons of BT water total. After doing so I figured I am most likely going to have to run something over my plants to battle rot/PM but Im sick of these little fucks eating up all my colas...did I fuck up rampaging like I did or what.


Im in a GH and I sprayed at 9 at night to allow the leaves to soak up all the kill juice !!


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 2, 2012)

HUSTLERBOY20 said:


> Alright guys, so after having to chop 2 plants because of those damn worms/caterpillars I decided to take it upon myself and give up on the Mantises to solve my problem and utterly hosed the shit out of my plants. I mixed up 2.5 Tbsp of BT per gal and hosed my plants 4 separate times with the final tally at 4gallons of BT water total. After doing so I figured I am most likely going to have to run something over my plants to battle rot/PM but Im sick of these little fucks eating up all my colas...did I fuck up rampaging like I did or what.
> 
> Im in a GH and I sprayed at 9 at night to allow the leaves to soak up all the kill juice !!


yup.......I got pissed too....I said fuck the preying mantis' and started blasting my plants with the BT too.....the praying mantis' were slackin.....probably gettin all high off the worms and getting couchlock lol


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Aug 2, 2012)

FresnoFarmer said:


> yup.......I got pissed too....I said fuck the preying mantis' and started blasting my plants with the BT too.....the praying mantis' were slackin.....probably gettin all high off the worms and getting couchlock lol



Those worms are so fucking small I dont think there chinky bugs eyes can even see them wiggling around. I found some that were normal caterpillar size so I no for damn sure they've been in there a while because of how small they start to how big I find them...arrgh i wanna use pesticides but I don't want to kill the lady beetles or the mantis's


Dude have you ever had an aphid bite you cause I keep getting white or green specs that bite my ass while im doing work in the GH. I feel a pinch on my arms now and again and then I see those specs trying to suck my blood or some shit. Bastards are relentless.


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 2, 2012)

HUSTLERBOY20 said:


> Those worms are so fucking small I dont think there chinky bugs eyes can even see them wiggling around. I found some that were normal caterpillar size so I no for damn sure they've been in there a while because of how small they start to how big I find them...arrgh i wanna use pesticides but I don't want to kill the lady beetles or the mantis's
> 
> 
> Dude have you ever had an aphid bite you cause I keep getting white or green specs that bite my ass while im doing work in the GH. I feel a pinch on my arms now and again and then I see those specs trying to suck my blood or some shit. Bastards are relentless.


lol yeah.....I can't find the worms because there are in my other garden out by the edge of my fence where there is no light at night.....navigating out there with a flashlight is a bitch lol.......but in my halfass GH I don't see any worms.....I have one Armenian Cucumber plant outside the GH an when I water it I get bit buy some little white/light green bug every now and again lol.....it feels just like you said....a pinch.......sometimes I water in my boxers and my legs get bit.....sucks lol. did you pay for the lady bugs?? I found a bunch in my grass when I let it grow too tall and brought them in the GH.....and I found all my preying mantis' on the surrounding vegetation near my home lol


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Aug 2, 2012)

FresnoFarmer said:


> lol yeah.....I can't find the worms because there are in my other garden out by the edge of my fence where there is no light at night.....navigating out there with a flashlight is a bitch lol.......but in my halfass GH I don't see any worms.....I have one Armenian Cucumber plant outside the GH an when I water it I get bit buy some little white/light green bug every now and again lol.....it feels just like you said....a pinch.......sometimes I water in my boxers and my legs get bit.....sucks lol. did you pay for the lady bugs?? I found a bunch in my grass when I let it grow too tall and brought them in the GH.....and I found all my preying mantis' on the surrounding vegetation near my home lol



I bought 2 egg sacks for the mantises and the lady beetles found there way into my GH but they aren't eating fast enough to totally eradicate the biters but then again I don't have them bad I just know their there cause I can feel them pricking me every now and again. I found a 2 inch Mantis by my fly bag and threw him into the GH and today I traded my GF's father weed for a mantis also 2 inches haha. ( weird trade ) but I am not sure if the BT or the Snow storm kills the beneficial bugs  but who knows. I find the mantis skins every now and again so I know they're there and they are growing. The bigger one tho is no where to be found but he is green so I probably wont see him in a 16x10 GH lol.


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 2, 2012)

HUSTLERBOY20 said:


> I bought 2 egg sacks for the mantises and the lady beetles found there way into my GH but they aren't eating fast enough to totally eradicate the biters but then again I don't have them bad I just know their there cause I can feel them pricking me every now and again. I found a 2 inch Mantis by my fly bag and threw him into the GH and today I traded my GF's father weed for a mantis also 2 inches haha. ( weird trade ) but I am not sure if the BT or the Snow storm kills the beneficial bugs  but who knows. I find the mantis skins every now and again so I know they're there and they are growing. The bigger one tho is no where to be found but he is green so I probably wont see him in a 16x10 GH lol.


lol the other day I found a 3 inch preying mantis and introduced him to the garden.....he is a beast....I caught him when he was snacking on a huge grasshopper lol......I can't find him now though.....I don't think the beneficial insects like us spraying stuff while they are on the plants......but who gives a shit lol....I foliar feed every morning so I think I ran off most of the preying mantis now lol. that is a weird trade though haha. ppl would think outdoor growers are crazy hippies because we are so intact with nature lol....I don't think the BT or snowstorm kills the beneficials....i just think they don't like it


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Aug 2, 2012)

If I could fit a cot in the GH id sleep in it..Most likely get scolded by my Gf but it would be pretty cool little camping trip. I have a garden spider that likes to migrate around my GH and he is the #2 reason I am holding off on sleeping in there. Wake up to a charlott web over my bed and a spider above my face would probably startle the shit out of me haha.


I like being a hippie.. it gives you a better perspective on life and its a very calming hobby...fuhk it...not many young people have appreciation for nature


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## veggiegardener (Aug 2, 2012)

My Praying Mantises leave egg cases all over my garden. When I clean up in the fall, I gather them a put them in my greenhouses. It protects them and the added warmth lets them hatch a bit earlier. They escape through the vents when food becomes scarce.(White flies, spider mites, etc.)


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## Humboldt DWC (Aug 3, 2012)

Kludge said:


> Use neem oil. It's safe for fruiting plants which means it won't kill you if you spray it on the buds.


Please DONT use neem oil on your buds. It is safe for fruiting plants only up to a certain number of days before harvest and you can not wash it off of cannabis after harvesting like most fruits, Plus you are expected to eat the fruit not smoke it. Neem leaves are safe to eat if you are not pregnant or trying to convince but but neem extracts are a whole different thing and there is not research on how safe it is to smoke.


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 4, 2012)

Yeah I woul only use it in veg up until the 2nd or 3 week of flowering....no later than that


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## smok3h (Aug 4, 2012)

Ordered some Safer BT online today. There's just way too many moths around here at night for me not to take any precautions. The worms must die!


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 4, 2012)

smok3h said:


> Ordered some Safer BT online today. There's just way too many moths around here at night for me not to take any precautions. The worms must die!


Yeah I thought it was all cool....just saw a couple butterflies every now and then......and the BLAM!! one of my plants got almost DEVOURED in like 5 days.....I went instantly to the local nursery and bought some BT for like 6.50......I had to start blasting with Neem recently because I started getting rust(fungus) on my leaves......The Neem worked last time so I hope it does again....I am going to keep applying BT and and Neem(alternating mind you) up until 3 weeks into flowering....and then I'm gonna just keep blasting the BT until I feel "safe" lol


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## smok3h (Aug 5, 2012)

Caught a bunch of little tree frogs tonight and let them go on my plants. They probably won't stick around, but maybe one or two might. 

I'm just trying to help my plants out in any way I can.


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 6, 2012)

smok3h said:


> Caught a bunch of little tree frogs tonight and let them go on my plants. They probably won't stick around, but maybe one or two might.
> 
> I'm just trying to help my plants out in any way I can.


If you have moths or butterflies around those tree frogs will stick with ya......I know when I was mulching yesterday I saw a bunch of them trying to catch butterflies lol.....I love nature man....so soothing.


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## Laney (Aug 6, 2012)

FresnoFarmer said:


> If you have moths or butterflies around those tree frogs will stick with ya......I know when I was mulching yesterday I saw a bunch of them trying to catch butterflies lol.....I love nature man....so soothing.


They come on to my window at night. The light attracts the moths and they come to chow down, lol.


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## mikeandnaomi (Aug 7, 2012)

Take Down by Monterey


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## Ryandoe11 (Aug 8, 2012)

thee mother plant...


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## veggiegardener (Aug 8, 2012)

Now is the critical time to spray Bt. Buds are beginning to form, and those caterpillars will burrow into them and destroy your beautiful buds.


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## Laney (Aug 8, 2012)

veggiegardener said:


> Now is the critical time to spray Bt. Buds are beginning to form, and those caterpillars will burrow into them and destroy your beautiful buds.


Yep, I'm alternating weekly applications with azamax, spinosad and bt. I've never had budworms and don't plan on letting them take up residence in my lovely buds. I'm going to continue until 2 weeks from harvest.


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 8, 2012)

I am alternating neem(for rust fungus), BT, and seaweed extract now......i'm out in my gardens early every morning trying to find any worms I can and squish their ass lol....so far I have only found one grub. Squished his ass with a stick lol.


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## Laney (Aug 8, 2012)

I absolutely smacked down a butterfly when I was out there this morning. Never did that before


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 8, 2012)

Laney said:


> I absolutely smacked down a butterfly when I was out there this morning. Never did that before


I've had to do it 2 or 3 times....it sucks. But it was my buds or him......he had to go lol


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## Laney (Aug 8, 2012)

I usually only spray once per week for insects as I've mentioned. So I sprayed Monday evening with spinosad (Monteray) and last night and this morning we had a real downpour (2.6" in my rain gauge!). Did it all wash off? Do I need to reapply?


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## Ryandoe11 (Aug 8, 2012)

Ive never seen thos bitches on my buds??


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Aug 8, 2012)

veggiegardener said:


> Now is the critical time to spray Bt. Buds are beginning to form, and those caterpillars will burrow into them and destroy your beautiful buds.



Ya unless your greenhouse is popping out buds a lot earlier then the rest of the group and you don't realize until your buds have brown patches in them..!!! I had to cut shit down early to save what I could before they eat it all..


What I want to know is how bugs get stuck or deterred from eating or getting trapped on the buds but caterpillars can mozy around free of any hang ups...I think I need stickier shit


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Aug 9, 2012)

Laney said:


> I usually only spray once per week for insects as I've mentioned. So I sprayed Monday evening with spinosad (Monteray) and last night and this morning we had a real downpour (2.6" in my rain gauge!). Did it all wash off? Do I need to reapply?


 Are you in Cali ? I had sunflowers kissing the dirt because of the rain..thank god for my GH


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 9, 2012)

Laney said:


> I usually only spray once per week for insects as I've mentioned. So I sprayed Monday evening with spinosad (Monteray) and last night and this morning we had a real downpour (2.6" in my rain gauge!). Did it all wash off? Do I need to reapply?


all my bottles say if there is heavy rain to reapply


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 9, 2012)

I wish I had rain lol


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 9, 2012)

HUSTLERBOY20 said:


> Ya unless your greenhouse is popping out buds a lot earlier then the rest of the group and you don't realize until your buds have brown patches in them..!!! I had to cut shit down early to save what I could before they eat it all..
> 
> 
> What I want to know is how bugs get stuck or deterred from eating or getting trapped on the buds but caterpillars can mozy around free of any hang ups...I think I need stickier shit


Look into buying some Tanglefoot.......They will get stuck for sure then


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## St1cky1cky (Aug 9, 2012)

Found 2 eggs last night on my only plant that isnt protected by screen (No room). l have been spraying with BT (safer Cat. Killer). All of the girls protected by screen havent found a single egg, fingers crossed!!. My question is, do the moths/butterfly's only lay eggs at night in the dark? I check on my girls several times a day and have never seen a butterfly or moth roaming during the day.


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## Laney (Aug 9, 2012)

I have seen butterflies and skippers during the day. Caught one on my plants today and yesterday. I've been spraying so haven't seen eggs (saw one thing that might have been an egg but not sure - looked flat like a hockey puck but microscopic and yellow). Moths come out more at night but you can see them during the day, too.


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 9, 2012)

St1cky1cky said:


> Found 2 eggs last night on my only plant that isnt protected by screen (No room). l have been spraying with BT (safer Cat. Killer). All of the girls protected by screen havent found a single egg, fingers crossed!!. My question is, do the moths/butterfly's only lay eggs at night in the dark? I check on my girls several times a day and have never seen a butterfly or moth roaming during the day.


They lay eggs when ever you give them the window bro lol....i have to go out there about every 2-3 hours and check to see if they are chillin in my garden sometimes.....I always bring a sandal lol......They are out during the night the most tho.....I think the heat from the plants attracts them.....that is just a guess though


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## veggiegardener (Aug 9, 2012)

Spraying Bt regularly provides some residual protection as some will survive in the interior of each bud. I've seen small buds(pea sized) turn brown. When I pull off the tiny brown bud, I'll often find a desiccated worm underneath, where he tasted Bt. Thoroughness is the key. Bt can be mixed with foliar nutrients like Fish and seaweed emulsions. Foliar feeding really makes a difference.


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 9, 2012)

veggiegardener said:


> Spraying Bt regularly provides some residual protection as some will survive in the interior of each bud. I've seen small buds(pea sized) turn brown. When I pull off the tiny brown bud, I'll often find a desiccated worm underneath, where he tasted Bt. Thoroughness is the key. Bt can be mixed with foliar nutrients like Fish and seaweed emulsions. Foliar feeding really makes a difference.


I totally agree with you on foliar feeding....And WOW!! Thanks!! I didn't know I could foliar feed with the bt in the mix. That is some very useful information.


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Aug 9, 2012)

FresnoFarmer said:


> Look into buying some Tanglefoot.......They will get stuck for sure then



Not if the butterflies lay eggs above the strip


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## Laney (Aug 10, 2012)

FresnoFarmer said:


> I totally agree with you on foliar feeding....And WOW!! Thanks!! I didn't know I could foliar feed with the bt in the mix. That is some very useful information.


You can mix a lot of things but I never like to do that (at least not for now). I like to see how they respond. I might mix BT, spinosad or azamax with my most innocuous foliar feed (Foliar Harmony 2-4-2). It will help when the budding nears the end as it will cut down on mold risk. I'll probably spray until just a couple of weeks before harvest.


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 10, 2012)

HUSTLERBOY20 said:


> Not if the butterflies lay eggs above the strip


If you are applying a caterpillar specific pesticide then those eggs shouldn't matter much.......it's the big, already "grown up" caterpillars that you gotta watch out for


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## ammoniacal (Aug 11, 2012)

Im new & maybe this is dumb..... but couldnt you build a scaffold and tent over your plants & then set off one of those gas "bug bomb"? You are supposed to let those things go for a couple hours, so you could do it really early or at night so it wont roast in the sun & then take down the tent. This would kill everything & the eggs too. What do you veteran growers think?


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## Laney (Aug 11, 2012)

It's just easier to spray Spinosad or BT, once per week or two is all you need.


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 11, 2012)

Yeah setting up the scaffolding every time you have a bug problem would be time consuming and and tiring.......better to just get an atomizer or fogger and blast your plants once a week.....maybe twice if it rains hard


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## Teccmoney (Aug 11, 2012)

Am I a chicken because i am scared to go in my garden during the heat of the day? because there is like 60-100 wasps flying through my garden and i got stung 3 times the other day on the side of my house. I like the wasps because they are destroying the bugs in my garden. i even put a kiddy pool full of water in my backyard to give them a water source and they seem to like since there is constant flow of them landing on top of the water to take a quick drink. I have 3 cantaloupe sized wasp nest around my residence that i know of. If the little bastards were not such an asset i would kill them off in a heart beat. wasps= Caterpillar destroyer lol.....


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## gioua (Aug 11, 2012)

Teccmoney said:


> Am I a chicken because i am scared to go in my garden during the heat of the day? because there is like 60-100 wasps flying through my garden and i got stung 3 times the other day on the side of my house. I like the wasps because they are destroying the bugs in my garden. i even put a kiddy pool full of water in my backyard to give them a water source and they seem to like since there is constant flow of them landing on top of the water to take a quick drink. I have 3 cantaloupe sized wasp nest around my residence that i know of. If the little bastards were not such an asset i would kill them off in a heart beat. wasps= Caterpillar destroyer lol.....




I'd kill em.. I like spending the day by the ladies as much as I can.. that or get a beekeeper suit 

you would kill a nest of blackwidows wouldnt ya? (I dont think they have :nests: but the point is there somewhere..


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## Teccmoney (Aug 11, 2012)

lol my girlfriend told me to kill the nest's yesterday and just spray more of that stuff that smells like nasty pee ( she is referring to the BT) to kill the caterpillars, but the wasps are doing a nice job keeping the pests at bay. Might have to kill two nests and leave one.


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 11, 2012)

Teccmoney said:


> Am I a chicken because i am scared to go in my garden during the heat of the day? because there is like 60-100 wasps flying through my garden and i got stung 3 times the other day on the side of my house. I like the wasps because they are destroying the bugs in my garden. i even put a kiddy pool full of water in my backyard to give them a water source and they seem to like since there is constant flow of them landing on top of the water to take a quick drink. I have 3 cantaloupe sized wasp nest around my residence that i know of. If the little bastards were not such an asset i would kill them off in a heart beat. wasps= Caterpillar destroyer lol.....


Bro......I have huge black bumblebees and i water shirtless......don't fuck with them and they won't fuck with......but any sudden movements......and your ass is grass lol......I have had to drop my watering can and run like a bitch on a few occasions lol


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 11, 2012)

Teccmoney said:


> lol my girlfriend told me to kill the nest's yesterday and just spray more of that stuff that smells like nasty pee ( she is referring to the BT) to kill the caterpillars, but the wasps are doing a nice job keeping the pests at bay. Might have to kill two nests and leave one.


Yeah just get the Spectracide wasp killer.....I did it to 2 nests and kept one.....Now I have only a few wasps compared to the 50-100 I had before


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## Teccmoney (Aug 11, 2012)

FresnoFarmer said:


> Bro......I have huge black bumblebees and i water shirtless......don't fuck with them and they won't fuck with......but any sudden movements......and your ass is grass lol......I have had to drop my watering can and run like a bitch on a few occasions lol


man that gave me a good chuckle lol... i run all the time full sprint and i try not to fuck up my plants in the process lol....


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 11, 2012)

Teccmoney said:


> man that gave me a good chuckle lol... i run all the time full sprint and i try not to fuck up my plants in the process lol....


I accidentally almost uprooted one plant lol. I ended up pulling it any ways because it was so stunted due to worm damage


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## Ryandoe11 (Aug 11, 2012)

at least 10 characters.


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 11, 2012)

Ryandoe11 said:


> View attachment 2291281at least 10 characters.


I hope that is your corn


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## Ryandoe11 (Aug 11, 2012)

FresnoFarmer said:


> I hope that is your corn


naa a local farmers, but that is my grandparents land that they rent out....


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## Laney (Aug 11, 2012)

Ryandoe11 said:


> naa a local farmers, but that is my grandparents land that they rent out....


Oh, that's okay then, lol


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Aug 12, 2012)

Laney said:


> Oh, that's okay then, lol



that sucks for the farmer if the feds fly over and ask if he's legal and cant provide a MMJ script


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 12, 2012)

Ryandoe11 said:


> naa a local farmers, but that is my grandparents land that they rent out....


be careful......out here the farmers work with the police


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## Ryandoe11 (Aug 13, 2012)

HUSTLERBOY20 said:


> that sucks for the farmer if the feds fly over and ask if he's legal and cant provide a MMJ script


uhh its ny, no such thing as a script for mmj


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Aug 13, 2012)

Ryandoe11 said:


> uhh its ny, no such thing as a script for mmj



too shay ....


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## gioua (Aug 13, 2012)

FresnoFarmer said:


> Bro......I have huge black bumblebees and i water shirtless......don't fuck with them and they won't fuck with......but any sudden movements......and your ass is grass lol......I have had to drop my watering can and run like a bitch on a few occasions lol


I use to do that.. now I just dont move when those effers are near.. had a mud wasp land on my hand once.. not sure if they sting.. but they sure as hell make me nervous...


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 13, 2012)

gioua said:


> I use to do that.. now I just dont move when those effers are near.. had a mud wasp land on my hand once.. not sure if they sting.. but they sure as hell make me nervous...


lol I tried the "stay still" technique.. It works the majority of the time. Sometimes the bumblebees will fly right in front of my face and hover and then fly away because I pose no threat. But then there are some bumblebees that will just straight try to attack me lol. I don't even worry about the wasps.....I water my planting bed all the time and they are always rummaging through the flowers on my pepper and tomato plants.


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## Laney (Aug 13, 2012)

Those large bees are carpenter bees. They are very curious and like to hover around you watching what you are doing. They rarely sting (it costs them their lives). Wasps are a different story. I tolerate them only because they are good pollinators and predators but I kill the nests when I see them. I've had a couple of large local reactions to wasp stings and they are not pleasant. Fortunately none this year and I was only stung twice so far. 

The last time I was stung it was out of the blue - I was lolling in a gravity chair on the deck with my eyes closed, not moving. So much for the don't bother them, they won't bother you theory. Totally pissed me off and I killed that sucker deader than a hammer.


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 13, 2012)

Laney said:


> Those large bees are carpenter bees. They are very curious and like to hover around you watching what you are doing. They rarely sting (it costs them their lives). Wasps are a different story. I tolerate them only because they are good pollinators and predators but I kill the nests when I see them. I've had a couple of large local reactions to wasp stings and they are not pleasant. Fortunately none this year and I was only stung twice so far.
> 
> The last time I was stung it was out of the blue - I was lolling in a gravity chair on the deck with my eyes closed, not moving. So much for the don't bother them, they won't bother you theory. Totally pissed me off and I killed that sucker deader than a hammer.


Yeah the carpenter bees live in a huge pile of leaves behind the fence around my planting bed. I have never been stung by a wasp.......Just a regular bee and it hurt but only for like 30 minutes and then I got over it lol.....I hear wasp stings hurt more like a bite than a pinch......let's hope I don't find out lol.......So how has your pest control been going? Ever since I started alternating the BT and Neem I haven't seen any bite marks on my leaves from worms. I think I'm going to start spraying Neem in my screenhouse now too because the grasshoppers are coming back since my praying mantis' left.


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## Laney (Aug 13, 2012)

I haven't had any real issues. I still see a little nibbling but that's to be expected. To be frank, the bugs aren't that bad here. This is the first year I've even bothered to spray (it was the first time I had leaf-rollers) and so the once per week seems sufficient. I may even stretch it to once each 10 days.


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## Teccmoney (Aug 13, 2012)

wasps were trying to build a nest in my vanilla kush and i knocked that sucker down asap, i dont want them making my garden home..... im going to go out early tomorrow morning when it is cooler to check for more nests. I guess they think my plants are real trees lol....


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 13, 2012)

Teccmoney said:


> wasps were trying to build a nest in my vanilla kush and i knocked that sucker down asap, i dont want them making my garden home..... im going to go out early tomorrow morning when it is cooler to check for more nests. I guess they think my plants are real trees lol....


lol.....If you look on youtube there is a guy who recorded him removing a bird nest out of one of his "trees" lol. It was quite amusing


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 13, 2012)

Laney said:


> I haven't had any real issues. I still see a little nibbling but that's to be expected. To be frank, the bugs aren't that bad here. This is the first year I've even bothered to spray (it was the first time I had leaf-rollers) and so the once per week seems sufficient. I may even stretch it to once each 10 days.


I went out to my screenhouse to check on my ladies earlier and ended up facing off a 4 inch grasshopper lol.....I will definitely be spraying some Neem tonight.


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## SenorBrownWater (Aug 13, 2012)

reading this thread make me feel hella lucky..
only shit we got here is cucumber beetles and scale
we have grass hoppers and deer but they don't eat my draw for some reason...


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Aug 14, 2012)

do wasps eat sunflower leaves to make their paper nests...I have something eating them and I don't see pillars lol..any one else growing sun flowers ?


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 14, 2012)

HUSTLERBOY20 said:


> do wasps eat sunflower leaves to make their paper nests...I have something eating them and I don't see pillars lol..any one else growing sun flowers ?


I hear that they will eat straight through the sunflower STALKS.


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## Ryandoe11 (Aug 14, 2012)

HUSTLERBOY20 said:


> too shay ....


Unfortunately...


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## CamGirlKitten (Aug 17, 2012)

If they're eating your bud, just eat them. lol


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 17, 2012)

CamGirlKitten said:


> If they're eating your bud, just eat them. lol


Why don't you come eat them for us?


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## St1cky1cky (Aug 17, 2012)

FresnoFarmer said:


> Why don't you come eat them for us?



LMAO. Fucking Fresno!


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 17, 2012)

St1cky1cky said:


> LMAO. Fucking Fresno!


What? I thought maybe she could use a snack or two


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## St1cky1cky (Aug 17, 2012)

I got a snack alright!


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## nowhereland (Aug 20, 2012)

is bt systemic?


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 20, 2012)

nowhereland said:


> is bt systemic?


no&#8203;........


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## nowhereland (Aug 20, 2012)

fffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuckkk so is now a good time to spray the buds cause last year they were deep in core of the bud

ive been sprayin em though so i hope iam covered


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 20, 2012)

nowhereland said:


> fffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuckkk so is now a good time to spray the buds cause last year they were deep in core of the bud
> 
> ive been sprayin em though so i hope iam covered


it is best to start spraying when the buds are starting to form. It is a great preventive measure that can save many people ounces.....even POUNDS of bud.


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## Ryandoe11 (Aug 22, 2012)

Growing under the sun


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## LatelySeeingDemons (Aug 22, 2012)

Ive found two or three big stinkbugs jus hanging out on two of my plants. Havent seen any bud worms. I sprinkle sevindust here and there away from the buds, and thruout veg and early flowering i was making sure there was no pest problem. Now im jus seeing flying insects here and there, little orange things.


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## kack (Aug 25, 2012)

The wider sun leaves indicate an indicus. The bud structure also looks indicus


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## veggiegardener (Aug 28, 2012)

LatelySeeingDemons said:


> Ive found two or three big stinkbugs jus hanging out on two of my plants. Havent seen any bud worms. I sprinkle sevindust here and there away from the buds, and thruout veg and early flowering i was making sure there was no pest problem. Now im jus seeing flying insects here and there, little orange things.


Those "little orange things" are Skipper butterflies. The WORST caterpillar producer.(At least in California.)


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## Laney (Aug 28, 2012)

I just gave another good dose of Spinosad (Monterey) -- that stuff rocks! I may give one more round of something (Spinosad, Azamax or BT) in a couple of weeks and hope that will do me for my early girls. Then just one last round for harvest Part Deux. The end is in sight!


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## ebgood (Aug 28, 2012)

how often are yall hittin them with the BT? Im three weekes into flower, started spraying bt first week and ever week so far. just found the first worm egg this morning. i shouldnt spray more than once a week right??


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 28, 2012)

ebgood said:


> how often are yall hittin them with the BT? Im three weekes into flower, started spraying bt first week and ever week so far. just found the first worm egg this morning. i shouldnt spray more than once a week right??


Every 5-7 days


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## Laney (Aug 28, 2012)

I'm seeing people hit them every 3-5 days or as long as 2-3 weeks. I would say that you should tailor your application to whether or not cats are a real issue in your area and whether or not you are having issues and how severe they are. Seems like once per week should be good for you. I've dropped back to once every 10 days or so. Not seeing any signs and I examine my girls closely daily.


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 28, 2012)

Laney said:


> I'm seeing people hit them every 3-5 days or as long as 2-3 weeks. I would say that you should tailor your application to whether or not cats are a real issue in your area and whether or not you are having issues and how severe they are. Seems like once per week should be good for you. I've dropped back to once every 10 days or so. Not seeing any signs and I examine my girls closely daily.


I have to do it every 5-7 days because the UV Level is high out here and it degrades the BT in a matter of days. I should really spray every 3-5 days......I will start that now that you mentioned it


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## veggiegardener (Aug 29, 2012)

I spray about every 3 weeks until mid September. It has always(over 2 decades) been adequate. Although Bt degrades in direct sunlight, it lasts quite a bit longer on the shady parts of the plant. Undersides of leaves, and inside the buds.


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## smok3h (Aug 29, 2012)

I bought some Safer BT spray, but it's up to my partner to apply it to the plants. I told him to do it a few weeks ago. I haven't got the chance to ask him if he's done it yet, but at this point I've already got little buds on my plants so it's probably too late. I'm just hoping that I won't get them. All the growers I've talked to around here (four different ones) have never gotten them though, so I'm hoping I'll be just as lucky.


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## gotroots (Aug 29, 2012)

proof that bt knocks them dead. found this guy on this leaf a few mornings ago, after hitting the plants the night before with some bt. i call these things tomato worms, cause thats what i primarily get them on. it looks so cute...dead.


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## Laney (Aug 30, 2012)

^^Looks like an inchworm!

Smok3h - it's not too late! Just spray right away. I will be spraying until mid-September.

I've never had any either but I am spraying (now every 2 weeks) because I do not want any surprises


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## dante76 (Aug 30, 2012)

What up RIU!!!

i would encourage any of you outdoor indica growers to also get a mosquito net like this one to cover your plant....This works great...just make sure you understand that whats inside - stays inside so be sure there no moths/butterflies flying around inside once you put something like this up. In addition, tuck whats hanging in the pot so nothing that flies low and get inside.

Does anyone know if drenching a preflowering plant with water will wash away budwom eggs? Gotta a plant that just beginning to preflower and i had moth flying around in my net. After I killed it, i drenched my plant with BT but am wondering if worm eggs can be drinched off with water.

thanks,


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## Rizzo00 (Aug 30, 2012)

I think I havebud worms for the first time. What does BT stand for cuz I need to get some ASAP!


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## Fungus Gnat (Aug 30, 2012)

Rizzo00 said:


> I think I havebud worms for the first time. What does BT stand for cuz I need to get some ASAP!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_thuringiensis
Safer brand caterpillar killer.


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## veggiegardener (Sep 1, 2012)

The eggs are stuck to the leaves pretty firmly. A stream of water won't do the trick. A fine spray, covering the entire plant is best. Be sure to spray from underneath, as well as over head. Most years, Bt has proven 100% effective in my garden.


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## 5150 (Sep 2, 2012)

How long can BT stay good in your sprayer? Say I have 1/2 gallon left over. Is it still good 6 days later? I just been dumping it but just wondering if it was still good?


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## lollapalooza (Sep 2, 2012)

My bottle says to use within 24 hours of mixing.


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## Teamfresno (Sep 2, 2012)

Whts the best bt out there to buy and is organic


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## Laney (Sep 3, 2012)

I use Safer's.


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## veggiegardener (Sep 3, 2012)

Kept in a cool dark shed, I've found it to remain effective after three weeks.


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## Teamfresno (Sep 3, 2012)

Thnks laney.....does tht kill thm rite awy


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## Laney (Sep 3, 2012)

I think it takes a few days. If you think you have a problem, I would spray (and you must spray in the evening due to UV) and then again in 3-5 days. I don't have any problems so I just spray something (spinosad, bt or azamax) every 10-14 days as a preventative.


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## Teamfresno (Sep 3, 2012)

Ya cuz last year those fuckers got good but still came out wit some koo super lemon haze


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## Teamfresno (Sep 3, 2012)

I meant they got me good


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## dante76 (Sep 4, 2012)

Teamfresno said:


> I meant they got me good


they got me good too last year....the bt works good. you just have to keep spraying the plant once or twice per week. moth eggs can take up to 2 weeks to hatch. i had it so bad that budworms were coming out as the herb was hanging up for drying.


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## Teamfresno (Sep 4, 2012)

I wldve been sad cuz its Gona ruin tht bud


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## Laney (Sep 4, 2012)

Wow - that sucks, Dante! Did you miss the signs?


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## dante76 (Sep 4, 2012)

Laney said:


> Wow - that sucks, Dante! Did you miss the signs?


sort of...last year outdoor was my first attempt to growing and i had no clue that moths/butterflies laid eggs on plants. I was picking a shit load of catepillars off. By the time i learned about BT it was too late. I was already in late flowering. I harvested early to save as much bud as i could. 

I've learned so much since then and now i've been hitting it with BT/insectical soap every week and i use a mosquito net to cover the plant. The aim of this bud war is to eliminate as many eggs b4 mid/late flowering so i cover my plant with the net in early flowering and keep up a regimen of BT and insectal soap. I hope i'll be succesfull with this...i'm really trying to stay away from spraying in late flowering. i don't want to risk mold or having BT on my flowers when i'm drying/curing.


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## Teamfresno (Sep 4, 2012)

Wish I got one of those......I dnt hav thm bad but it's better to be ready thn sorry


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## Laney (Sep 4, 2012)

That looks great, Dante! It's my 7th grow and I have never had them. I will spray one last time in 2 weeks and that will be it. I don't have netting but I'm watching closely for signs.


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## dante76 (Sep 4, 2012)

what other signs could i look for besides leaves that are being eaten?


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## Laney (Sep 4, 2012)

Eggs. Poo. Also, sometimes the stigma turn red.


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## newbie9 (Sep 4, 2012)

Hey everyone watch this video its an ingenious method used for many many generations and is most popular within the wooded growing areas. But any plant is subject to needing a bath. 

http://the420times.com/2011/10/jorge-cervantes-washing-away-powdery-mildew/ its a crazy method but should work if your using the BT or anything. It is okay to do this but its not for the faint of heart because shit can get messey but this method is so easy even I can acomplish it. With a larger grow this may be an important step to take befor the final dry and cure. It sterilizes everything and will take all the bad crap away including pesticides or soaps. Try it and it will amaze you. It also acts a fungicide and will kill all the spores that may be in hiding. I mean who wants to smoke Powedery mildew with a side of pesticide


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## Teamfresno (Sep 4, 2012)

Didn't think I had these assholes as bad as I'm startn to find....goin on the hunt tomarrow for catterpillars and death to all butterfly s lol


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## dante76 (Sep 4, 2012)

newbie9 said:


> Hey everyone watch this video its an ingenious method used for many many generations and is most popular within the wooded growing areas. But any plant is subject to needing a bath.
> 
> http://the420times.com/2011/10/jorge-cervantes-washing-away-powdery-mildew/ its a crazy method but should work if your using the BT or anything. It is okay to do this but its not for the faint of heart because shit can get messey but this method is so easy even I can acomplish it. With a larger grow this may be an important step to take befor the final dry and cure. It sterilizes everything and will take all the bad crap away including pesticides or soaps. Try it and it will amaze you. It also acts a fungicide and will kill all the spores that may be in hiding. I mean who wants to smoke Powedery mildew with a side of pesticide


i tried this and all my bud (350g+) becames crap. i would not recommend it....last resort definitely. Your bud will be noticeably different with less aroma.

BEWARE of this hydrogen peroxide bath as recommend by J Cervantes...if that has been successful with other growers, i would inquire on their recipe and compare to Cervantes


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## dante76 (Sep 4, 2012)

what color are the eggs? and are the eggs laid on the upper side of the leaf? this part confuses me a little. i also think that as bud starts to swell in weeks 3 -6 that it can start to "cover" unhatched eggs. Am I right?


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## ebgood (Sep 5, 2012)

right dante. i have found eggs on top of buds, inside the buds, in between pistils, over and under leaves and even right on the stems. the eggs ive seen are very small, like the size of a salt or sugar grain.. maybe the tiniest bit bigger. white to a dull yellow in color


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## Majik260 (Sep 6, 2012)

do you guys think this stuff would work good to keep them buggers off? http://www.gardeners.com/Summerweight-Garden-Fabric/11749,default,pd.html or would something else be better? I got my babys in a greenhouse finally this year but still got 3 in ground that are not covered. Really don't want to bother with the catapillars this year had to throw away so much last few years because of them even with catapillar killer spray.


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## Majik260 (Sep 6, 2012)

can you take a picture of what the eggs look like by any chance please? I useally dont spot them untill there is damage which then is easy to notice where they are. thanks


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## dante76 (Sep 6, 2012)

the super hoops sounds like a good idea, but honestly its not big enough...check out my pic on page 106 of this thread...if you like what you see, all you would need is the mosquito net (COGHLAN'S Mesh Mosquito Net)and bamboo stakes. About $25 altogether.

the fabric roll looks interesting...you could possibly build a frame and line it with that....i've thought of doing it with wood or pvc and build a frame large enough to enclose a few plants. Maybe next season


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## pabloesqobar (Sep 6, 2012)

Majik260 said:


> can you take a picture of what the eggs look like by any chance please? I useally dont spot them untill there is damage which then is easy to notice where they are. thanks


This is what they looked like on my plants.


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## primewish (Sep 7, 2012)

So is the powder form or the liquid the way to go?


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## dante76 (Sep 7, 2012)

primewish said:


> So is the powder form or the liquid the way to go?


what are you referring to? BT?


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## Laney (Sep 7, 2012)

primewish said:


> So is the powder form or the liquid the way to go?


Either. The liquid is easier to apply. When you use the dust, you need to make sure the plant is damp so spray in the very early morning or late in the evening and wet her with a fine mist if she needs it prior to dusting. I use the Safer's. It's more expensive but easier to apply (IMO).


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## newbie9 (Sep 7, 2012)

dante76 said:


> i tried this and all my bud (350g+) becames crap. i would not recommend it....last resort definitely. Your bud will be noticeably different with less aroma.
> 
> BEWARE of this hydrogen peroxide bath as recommend by J Cervantes...if that has been successful with other growers, i would inquire on their recipe and compare to Cervantes



90% of my out door harvest has been completed after this method. The peroxide 3% will do nothing on tast and aroma. If you do it the minute you harvest and then completley dry the dripping water then there is no problem. The only way it would have turned your crop would have been from mold which you didnt dry properly after or you left it in too long. Either way if you do it right you come out with a 1000% better quality. Who wants to smoke powdery mildew hash. I dont. These spores if not taken out will always be in your product. Not good medicine if you ask me


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## Spliffer1 (Sep 7, 2012)

I've recently found a couple of budworms on one of my babies, now I'm worried. They're within a couple of weeks of finishing, so I don't feel comfortable spraying them with anything. I'm picking over the buds meticulously trying to find any others before they can do any more damage on a daily basis to get through the last couple of weeks.
Has anyone tried soaking their fresh cut buds in a salt water bath?
I soak my brocoli and other veggies in it and the little green worms (and any other bugs) die pretty quickly and are easily rinsed away. Not that this would be better than than finding the little bastards and disposing of them properly, or better yet, preventing them from happening in the first place, but a method of getting rid of any that might make it through the harvest.
I'm already going to have to rinse them good after picking, the little piss ants here have been bad this year, and I see a few here and there that are stuck in the resinous goo on my bud.
Just an idea, anyone tried it?


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## veggiegardener (Sep 7, 2012)

Outdoors, I bathe my plants several times a week until the buds become too dense, about half way through blooming. This makes a huge difference in the finished products. As Jorge said, "not too hard of a spray". Just rinse them off. This has the added benefit of strengthening the stems before the bud weight gets too heavy to support. And the planrs love it.


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## Wesbrook (Sep 7, 2012)

I am beginning to harvest and noticing the little tiny bastards. Is it too late to spray the BT on it?


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## nowhereland (Sep 7, 2012)

i dont get it, if bt is used when the catpillier/bud worm eats it, how is it a preventative if the bug already exsist

ive used safer brand bt on mines, havent seen any live or dead adult ones yet, seen eggs today though, took about 40-45 mins looking at each branch carefully, plucking them off, they hide underneath the top/main colas a lot, bastards wanna ruin your best looking buds

from here on in i guess i gotta look for eggs everyday, gonna spray some bt tommorrow too,there about a month more or less, hopefully i can save 90% ish percent of my crop i just think one of those bastards will sneak through and lay eggs and all that, prob take out a few branches

******just to be sure the eggs are from the moths and not any worms themselves, again i havent seen any live or dead ones on my buds


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## veggiegardener (Sep 7, 2012)

A fine mist is OK until the last week of September, or later if you know there is a major infestation. Jorge's H2O2 wash is a good idea if you need to spray later.


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## mikeandnaomi (Sep 7, 2012)

You use "stuff" to kill the eggs. This stuff will do both. Its not harmful to humans. Next time start with neem oil from the beginning (preventive) then switch to this 2 months into the cycle. http://encinalnursery.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/100_3499.jpg


nowhereland said:


> i dont get it, if bt is used when the catpillier/bud worm eats it, how is it a preventative if the bug already exsist
> 
> ive used safer brand bt on mines, havent seen any live or dead adult ones yet, seen eggs today though, took about 40-45 mins looking at each branch carefully, plucking them off, they hide underneath the top/main colas a lot, bastards wanna ruin your best looking buds
> 
> ...


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## mikeandnaomi (Sep 7, 2012)

Use this mid july to 3 weeks pre harvest or 2 weeks even one week pre harvest - depending on your needs. Chill out - you will always have to deal with bugs, pest, insects - when going the outdoor route. I use the method I mentioned and get little insect, bug, catapillar problems. Today I rounded up a grass hoper and shot some direct spray http://external.ak.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQC_xvYXeaexA1Pl&url=http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51BOHgDYk2L.jpg 

and killed him. Organic pesticides are the best. The two products I mentioned contain the main ingredient that many sell under COMMERCIAL HYDRO STORE name and mark up.


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## lollapalooza (Sep 8, 2012)

One question about BT - my bottle says to reapply after rain but I'm fairly sure I remember reading somewhere that BT is still on the leaves after a rain. What is the truth? I applied BT to my plant yesterday and it rained today pretty hard for two or three hours, is this enough to wash off the BT?


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## Laney (Sep 9, 2012)

Yes. You need to reapply. The same with Spinosad. I missed that once and had to reapply. I now watch the weather closely and only spray when a few days of clear weather are expected.


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## dante76 (Sep 9, 2012)

mikeandnaomi said:


> You use "stuff" to kill the eggs. This stuff will do both. Its not harmful to humans. Next time start with neem oil from the beginning (preventive) then switch to this 2 months into the cycle. http://encinalnursery.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/100_3499.jpg


i always wondered what can kill eggs becuase they can take up to 3 weeks to hatch. Wesbrook, thats why you still seeing hatchlings coming out of your bud...i've been there...

search on http://www.montereylawngarden.com to find a retailer and spoke with a store rep...pyrethrin is the main ingredient here that kills eggs...it was explained to me that is like a "birth control"...it'll keep eggs from hatching.

so any product with pyrethrin should work just make sure the these bastards are listed under the insects/eggs they kill...

i'll definitely pick up a bottle of this!


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## semor90 (Sep 9, 2012)




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## codster25 (Sep 10, 2012)

semor90 said:


>


\

I was just curious what is usually expected in weight from each plant at that size and variety? I have some that look pretty similar in height and appearance, and am hoping for at least an ounce or more off each. What's your guess at this point?


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## semor90 (Sep 11, 2012)

i have 7 plants they all really vary in size.the biggest im hoping for 3 zips.


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## MrN1ceGuy (Sep 12, 2012)

thats crazy now we have to worry about worms too lol


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## MrN1ceGuy (Sep 12, 2012)

looking nice semor


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## grownitt (Sep 12, 2012)

BT= bacillus theringas?


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## veggiegardener (Sep 12, 2012)

Bacillus thurengiensis


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## darbear (Sep 13, 2012)

where do u get praying mantis eggs or praying mantises?


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## lahadaextranjera (Sep 13, 2012)

Is BT in brown powder form? I've been given some powder to mix at 1g/litre but so far there's still caterpillars. Used it twice in a week. Neem the rest of grow. Tried Pythrum today. I've got more than 12 plants.


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## mikeandnaomi (Sep 13, 2012)

1/4 to 1/2 oz of dried at this point...


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## obijohn (Sep 13, 2012)

Spinosad has always worked great for me. Does neem also kill them? Friend has been using neem for whiteflies and spider mites, and say no sign df budworms yet


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## FresnoFarmer (Sep 13, 2012)

Neem works. But it doesn't work as well as BT imo. And BT doesn't stink.


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## Homer13063 (Sep 14, 2012)

Wasps will search & destroy bud worms. I saw it with my own red eyes!


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## MrRoberto (Sep 15, 2012)

I had worms about 3 weeks ago... I lightly sprayed my plants with nicotine spray and have not seen a single one since... Nor have I seen any other bugs... Didn't effect my plants at all... And it's organic...


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## dante76 (Sep 15, 2012)

lahadaextranjera said:


> Is BT in brown powder form? I've been given some powder to mix at 1g/litre but so far there's still caterpillars. Used it twice in a week. Neem the rest of grow. Tried Pythrum today. I've got more than 12 plants.


no bt is only available in liquid but if you'd rather use a powder i would suggest diatomaceous earth...its usually sold in two forms..one in garden but is difficult find at homedepot/lowes but they also carry in large volumes of 25lb bags in the pool care section.


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## Upperceck (Sep 16, 2012)

is Bt something I can buy easily and whats the name and where do I get it, havent noticed any worms yet but have a late bloomer in the midwest only 2 weeks in and seems to be early enough to head off any problems, hope she hurries up, any suggestions for preventive worms and bugs and any suggestions to speed up process, average first frost in about 25 days


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## onlikepopcorn (Sep 17, 2012)

Check the underside of the leaves too, they make lil hammock like nests on the bottoms of leaves or in between overlapping leaves. I had a problem with inch worms that would walk around and snip the hairs off my buds. If you can find a praying mantis, you can actually tie them to the stalk of your plant with thread and they will chow down anything that tries to crawl up the stalk.


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## Homer13063 (Sep 20, 2012)

I just found 3 worms. I had 'em last year so I know what to look for. In fact bud worm damage is easy to spot. Your eye's get used to all of the green & then before you know it you are spotting brown patches with ease. I sprayed with BT about a month ago but I won't spray now. I just offer damaged buds to the cannabis god as a sacrifice for all of the killer buds I did get.

I hate bud caterpillars with a passion. They destroy the best buds first. I guess it means my plants are doing good is the worms chose them....???


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## Tmethod (Sep 22, 2012)

I had my first run-in with these little fkrs they are disgusting! I flower outdoors and after my sixth or seventh grow they attacked my plant. It sucks to pick through your delicious buds inevitably destroying a lot of the trichomes. I refuse to spray my future smoke with anything so I spent hours picking those worms out of my buds. In the end my plant survived ( minus some buds that had to be removed ) I probably ended-up smoking some of the little worms that were dried along with the buds haha. That plant turned out great though ( L.A. OG ) it was uplifting and relaxing! so keep a close eye on your girls and relentlessly pick-off those little bastards and don't worry about smoking some of them. Revenge is sweet, sweet smoke.


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## obijohn (Sep 22, 2012)

Using spinosad won't hurt the buds or anything. It's a bacteria, not a poison, and it can be sprayed up to harvest. No oil or residue


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## merlubroza (Sep 22, 2012)

somango x chocolope 
dejo una foto


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## dawn99 (Sep 23, 2012)

Were the plants already budding? And how close are you now to harvest? I have budworms every single year; I'm still looking for a cure. The picking them off is just not good enough, I tried spraying w/insecticidal soap before the plants budded, but we've got so many moths it's a losing battle. My husband wants to build a screened in area in our backyard where we now grow in big planters (our soil is clay & husband has chosen to use pots). Anyway it seems a bit much, farmers don't build enclosures for their fields. Anyone with any ideas?


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## dawn99 (Sep 23, 2012)

I have had so much trouble w/the* things* I could scream. I think I have more than one kind too. They seem to do different damage at different times, I'm not sure if it's just what they're accomplishing at a specific time in their development or if it's two different caterpillars doing two different forms of eating. Anyway, it sure feels like they're getting more than their fair share!


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## Coho (Sep 23, 2012)

BT is just a bacteria..they eat it and die. I like the screen area idea..keeps mantises at home.


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## bombasticson (Sep 23, 2012)

Im not having any budworms over here


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## bombasticson (Sep 23, 2012)

.............................


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## grower215 (Sep 23, 2012)

what does the caterpillar poop look like? ive seen some black specs on top of the leafs on a couple plants of mine


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## Fungus Gnat (Sep 24, 2012)

grower215 said:


> what does the caterpillar poop look like? ive seen some black specs on top of the leafs on a couple plants of mine


like small poppy or strawberry seeds, if it's on top of a leaf its likely fly shit.


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## SmokingCali3 (Sep 25, 2012)

Ive read a good potion of this thread and im really scared that im going to lose my plant. So ive found some caterpillars on one of my plants and ive picked them off and cleaned their dropping off as well. my plant is about 2 months old is it too late to use BT? this is a outdoor grow btw.


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## blindbaby (Sep 25, 2012)

this is my second year doing any out door, but im in tacoma, wash, and i have not seen any of these catapillares you have there. its not that we dont have differnt moths, but i see no worms. not in washington? maybe just the right temp in cal. hey. i have something to say about the term "ORGANIC". DONT THINK ITS PERFECT this organic this, organic that. cant hurt u if its organic, right? tell me. when you go into the woods, or meadow, and find one of many poisinous mushrooms, not to mention a few other bad things, do you think they are NOT ORGANIC!? most of natures purenst poisons, are ALL ORGANIC!! and deadly! did you know if you have the "word" organic, on your product, you have to pay for the priviledge? its all buisness. pay em their fee, and tought that whats in there is organic. lmao. fox farm is not organic, nor are many. but, nearlly all of the ingreideients, come from mother earth. they mine em. now thats organic, without paying the fee to brag it up. the days of bottled nuclear waste we mixed with water are over. i am more turned off by peeps who feel they need to use 15-15-15, in order to force grouth, and wonder how the heck they are gonna ever flush that foul-tasting stuff out. its more of a problem with that, than any danger from the assortment of stuff we have at our disposal to use. but, im just one opinion. right now, im using the two flora novasl, from gh. and the kool bloom. i had been using the fox farm for near 3 years, with no real complaints, other than there is no way to fit all those feedings into the schedule. i used open sesame ounce. beastie blooms twice, and cha ching last, on plants that looked faded. if not faded, id give em one last beastie. only the big bloom is listed as "organic" of their entire line. (bat/worm). peace to all. time for a bong.


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## blindbaby (Sep 25, 2012)

hey. i just remembered. i was out one day, and a whole bunch of yellow jackets were all over my plants. they must have been after something. i know they would not harm anything. i left em be........lol


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## obijohn (Sep 27, 2012)

I've always used spinosad in the past. Just helping with a friends grow this year. We didn't see any worms but figured we'd have them, so tried bt for the first time Monday. Today we are seeing a few worms crawl out from a bud and look like they are dying. Woo hoo!

How long does will bt be effective? With spinosad I sprayed every week, same with bt?


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## Laney (Sep 27, 2012)

I sprayed my last dose a 2-3 weeks ago (both bt and spinosad, though not at the same time) and am still finding dead insects. I think it stays effective for at least a couple-three weeks unless you have a heavy rain.


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## obijohn (Sep 27, 2012)

Ok, I thought it degraded and went away after a certain amount of days


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## jcmjrt (Sep 28, 2012)

obijohn said:


> I've always used spinosad in the past. Just helping with a friends grow this year. We didn't see any worms but figured we'd have them, so tried bt for the first time Monday. Today we are seeing a few worms crawl out from a bud and look like they are dying. Woo hoo!
> 
> How long does will bt be effective? With spinosad I sprayed every week, same with bt?


My experience (just a couple of seasons so limited) is that one needs to spray every week. I know some people spray every few days but that may be overkill after the first week or so. I think next year if/when I get the caterpillars, that I'll try spraying every three days for a week+ and then maintain 'til the end with a weekly spray.

I do prefer this product to spinosad for caterpillars because you can supposedly spray a product and eat it right away. Spinosad gives different lengths of time for safe eating of veg/fruit after application...so I definitely don't want to smoke it.


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## Laney (Sep 29, 2012)

obijohn said:


> Ok, I thought it degraded and went away after a certain amount of days


According to the manufacturer of Monterey, spinosad is effective for up to 4 weeks. I think ppl spray it a lot more than neccessary (myself included). I was alternating weekly with BT and Azamax, then went to every 10 days and stopped a few weeks ago as harvest is nearing. If you are in an area that has a lot of issues (I'm not), you might need to spray nore often or continue closer to harvest.


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## mwooten102 (Oct 2, 2012)

when pruning I would suggest looking inside the nugs for the pillars .. the caterpillars do alot of damage but their shit does even more IMO especially in really dense nugs.


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## dieselhound (Oct 13, 2012)

Next year I am going with netting on adustable poles covering the entire grow. I'm sick of those lil bastards.


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## donnysmacks (Oct 15, 2012)

Everyone looks real good comin around this time of year heres a few of my babies..like and comment thanks a lot
Purps!!
View attachment 2374235

View attachment 2374237
WHite fire go
View attachment 2374238


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## toocoolo (Oct 31, 2012)

I keep getting those worms every year! I used BT before, but still.

This year has been the best, tho. I increased the spraying to up to twice a week, and/or once after a heavy rain. I still had worms, but less than previous years. And since its raining so much, It washess off the dead worms and leftover bt before cuting down. 

A piece of advice I would give to novel outdoors growers: If you find a single worm/caterpillar, no matter if its the size of a rice grain or a cigarette butt, or you find your best buds getting mold: just ASSUME you have more worms and spray all your plants with BT. You're never safe. Every year I think I am until the last days come and my best buds rot from their shit!


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## dante76 (Oct 31, 2012)

toocoolo said:


> I keep getting those worms every year! I used BT before, but still.
> 
> This year has been the best, tho. I increased the spraying to up to twice a week, and/or once after a heavy rain. I still had worms, but less than previous years. And since its raining so much, It washess off the dead worms and leftover bt before cuting down.
> 
> A piece of advice I would give to novel outdoors growers: If you find a single worm/caterpillar, no matter if its the size of a rice grain or a cigarette butt, or you find your best buds getting mold: just ASSUME you have more worms and spray all your plants with BT. You're never safe. Every year I think I am until the last days come and my best buds rot from their shit!


using BT twice a week is a good idea...i would also use pyrethrin before flowering to kill eggs. if you are growing an indica (short plant) use some mosquito netting like the one below...it will improve your harvest and keep moths from getting to the plants. word of caution though - keep the netting closed at the bottom..moths can fly low and enter from any opening. best of luck


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## SkyWalker009 (Oct 31, 2012)

**WHAM* >>> liquid chitosan* ... Agricultural and horticultural use[h=4][edit] Natural biocontrol and elicitor[/h]In agriculture, chitosan is used primarily as a natural seed treatment and *plant growth enhancer*, and as an ecologically friendly biopesticide substance that boosts the innate ability of plants to defend themselves against fungal infections.[SUP][4][/SUP] The natural biocontrol active ingredients, chitin/chitosan, are found in the shells of crustaceans, such as lobsters, crabs, and shrimp, and many other organisms, including insects and fungi. It is one of the most abundant biodegradable materials in the world. Degraded molecules of chitin/chitosan exist in soil and water. Chitosan applications for plants and crops are regulated by the EPA, and the USDA National Organic Program regulates its use on organic certified farms and crops.[SUP][5][/SUP] EPA-approved, biodegradable chitosan products are allowed for use outdoors and indoors on plants and crops grown commercially and by consumers.[SUP][6][/SUP] The natural biocontrol ability of chitosan should not be confused with the effects of fertilizers or pesticides upon plants or the environment. Chitosan active biopesticides represent a new tier of cost-effective biological control of crops for agriculture and horticulture.[SUP][7][/SUP] *The biocontrol mode of action of chitosan elicits natural innate defense responses within plant to resist insects, pathogens, and soil-borne diseases when applied to foliage or the soil*.[SUP][8][/SUP] Chitosan increases photosynthesis, promotes and enhances plant growth, stimulates nutrient uptake, increases germination and sprouting, and boosts plant vigor. When used as seed treatment or seed coating on cotton, corn, seed potatoes, soybeans, sugar beets, tomatoes, wheat and many other seeds, it elicits an innate immunity response in developing roots which destroys parasitic cyst nematodes without harming beneficial nematodes and organisms.[SUP][9][/SUP][SUP][10][/SUP] Agricultural applications of chitosan can reduce environmental stress due to drought and soil deficiencies, strengthen seed vitality, improve stand quality, increase yields, and reduce fruit decay of vegetables, fruits and citrus crops (see photo right).[SUP][11][/SUP] Horticultural applications of *chitosan increases blooms *and extends the life of cut flowers and Christmas trees


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## SkyWalker009 (Oct 31, 2012)

...peace out


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## dwillhauck2229 (Oct 31, 2012)

Those little fuckers really hurt your yields. I was too close to harvest to use any chemical insect repellents. My only option was to go thru every bud with a pair of tweezers and a magnifying glass and pull them all out one by one. This was a big plant too. It was about a foot taller than me and I am 6'1". You MUST get then out ASAP!!!! Or your buds will be turning brown and falling off before you know it.


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## gtowngrow (Nov 2, 2012)

my bad if i sound like a newb but whats bt


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## veggiegardener (Nov 15, 2012)

I never saw one live OR dead worm this year, but found about a dozen small dead buds where worms had started eating before getting Bt'd. A thorough spraying of the buds during the second or third week of flowering(mid August)b may pay off if you miss a bud during the later, lighter applications. I am having problems with mold in a couple greenhouse plants that produced VERY large dense buds. They were harvested a couple days before a three day wet spell, a few weeks ago. Fans usually minimize this problem, but I'll probably lose a couple ounces.


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## ironcross360 (Nov 19, 2012)

wow dats crzy bro


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## merlubroza (Nov 21, 2012)

morango haze exterior


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## CrimsonN9NE (Feb 1, 2013)

Ok what does BT mean? i tryed looking it up and i get alot of random stuff. Im preping for this summer it will be my first outdoor grow


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Feb 1, 2013)

CrimsonN9NE said:


> Ok what does BT mean? i tryed looking it up and i get alot of random stuff. Im preping for this summer it will be my first outdoor grow


[h=1]_

Bacillus thuringiensis


_[/h]


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## Walter9999 (Feb 11, 2013)

I put a couple dollops of Vaseline on the main stem up from the dirt line and check there for "tracks" first thing every morning, kinda gives me an idea of any activity


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## Hazydat620 (Mar 3, 2013)

I've read quit a few pages of this, Does anyone use neem/karanja oil? My very large crop was devastated by these little bastages, learned after the fact that this is the best prevention, food grade organic, you can actually eat straight out of bottle. spray twice a week through the whole thing maybe stop couple weeks before harvest.


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## BroJohnson (Mar 9, 2013)

Im on the central coast of Cali, gonna be throwing some plants outside this year, should I be worried about any moths or bugs in my area? Been thinking about either having them covered in a mosiqto net or just spraying BT and PYRETHRIN till about 2-3 weeks b4 harvest. Anyone having problems this year or last around in this area?

Is there something better I can spray them with or does BT pretty much eliminate most bugs?

Grew a crop last year and had no moth problems, but I really wanna be certain this year, spraying the plants wont affect the yield, or taste?
THanks RIU!!!


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## Fungus Gnat (Mar 13, 2013)

BroJohnson said:


> Grew a crop last year and had no moth problems, but I really wanna be certain this year, spraying the plants wont affect the yield, or taste?
> THanks RIU!!!


BT is a bacteria targets caterpillar guts, there's also spinosad which is more multipurpose. Neem oil works well against other pests and there is Serenade organic fungicide for mold control.


PYRETHRIN is still an organophosphate, something to think about if you're smoking it.


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## SoCal88 (Apr 3, 2013)

I've heard this works very well !!


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## dante76 (Apr 3, 2013)

Any active ingredient with "thrin" on the end is good for killing all stages of insects including eggs. But u don't want to u this in flowering. BT is ok in flowering.


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## Kevdogg5555 (Apr 4, 2013)

it crucial to spray two weeks before you go into flowering and throughout the flowering process. The moths lay microscopic eggs that you cant even see! The the only way to be sure is PREVENTION. + fresh caterpillar larva is very sensitive to BT. If you try to spray when there already a inch long munching hardcore, your too late


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## Milovan (Apr 4, 2013)

My last grow had these Caterpillars and they came down from the big tree above 
the pot plants. They came down on a silk string that they produce just like a spider.
I seen them easily hanging on the silk strings coming down to the plants so this year I will put
up a clear thin tarp above the plants to stop the Caterpillars.

The year before on a outside grow, I used a tarp to cover above the plants at night and I had zero Caterpillars
all the way to harvest. They seem to come only in flower otherwise. Fuckers do big damage no doubt.


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## didly (May 8, 2013)

I was absolute demolished by bud worms last year easily lost some #'s 
Im curious if anyone knows where to buy big mosquito nets? The bigger the better.
i will sew them together if I have to.
I don't want to worry about a spray working or not working..
in previous posts I seem someone mentioning shadescreen but that blocks uv and that is defeating the purpose of having this awesome weather..

acouple years ago me and some guys use a fabric called Thule its basically a screen looking fabric we used brown to blend in ( gorilla)
It worked well but we already had a care built and just went over the cage 

it was really light and thin so it didn't block much sun it was damn near transparent.

the only downfall was that the Hoyt summer ruined it and we had pieces of this plasticky/nylony/ fabric everywhere 
and that it was only one yard wide we we had to sew the crap out of it


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## Milovan (May 12, 2013)

didly said:


> I was absolute demolished by bud worms last year easily lost some #'s
> Im curious if anyone knows where to buy big mosquito nets? The bigger the better.
> i will sew them together if I have to.


I'm getting mine at Bed Bath & Beyond at $30 a piece.
Bed canopy and mosquito netting. They are big at 8' x 40' each.


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## didly (May 13, 2013)

Milovan said:


> I'm getting mine at Bed Bath & Beyond at $30 a piece.
> Bed canopy and mosquito netting. They are big at 8' x 40' each.


Fuck yeah that's awesome bro!!! 
Thanks for the info
Are they only white?? 
Whatever I will deal with white paint it if I have to.
not gorilla or anything but I'm not far from the airport and do get heli's
8 x 40 feet?? That's huge!! 
8 x 4?


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## Kailuagirl (May 14, 2013)

What is BT? I am a newbie and found 2 of these buggers this morning. White Widow is 9 weeks. They were really small. should i expect more?


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## Fungus Gnat (May 14, 2013)

bacillus thuringiensis, it's in safer brand caterpillar killer. Yes.


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## davidjwest (May 19, 2013)

first time posting....
will "pyrethrins" work on them and are they a problem in the north east?


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## piatch (May 20, 2013)

BroJohnson said:


> Im on the central coast of Cali, gonna be throwing some plants outside this year, should I be worried about any moths or bugs in my area? Been thinking about either having them covered in a mosiqto net or just spraying BT and PYRETHRIN till about 2-3 weeks b4 harvest. Anyone having problems this year or last around in this area?
> 
> Is there something better I can spray them with or does BT pretty much eliminate most bugs?
> 
> ...


Some strains are more resistant to caterpillar and mold but if you are on the central coast I wouldn't take any chances. If you see any 50 cent piece size white moths fluttering around your yard, they are one of the culprits and can devastate your final yield. I have been spraying with the "Safer" brand "Caterpillar Killer" about once a week. in the early evening and will continue until about a week before harvest. Good luck!


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## vallilynn (May 30, 2013)

Bt needs to b used n veg because when buds come the bt will already n there i only use n veg think too late to use when n bud eorm eat bud eith bt it makes them not eat right n they die there r threads about it


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## mr sunshine (Jun 10, 2013)

just bysbuy some praying mantis buy some ladybugs tooo release the ladys first aka marines a month into flowering u can let the mantis go aka assasins


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## veggiegardener (Jun 13, 2013)

Predatoryv insects won't do an adequate job. My garden has both Ladybugs and Praying Mantises, but Bt can be 100% effective with frequent and thorough applications.Start no later than July first and apply at least every three weeks.


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## dirrtyd (Jun 14, 2013)

Nice seeing you VG still gleening through your thread. keepem green dirrtyd


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## youngfarmer92 (Jun 14, 2013)

its my first grow and today I found like spider mites, centipedes, and other tiny bugs on my girl. how would I stop this pest problems? A little about my plant: Outdoor Grown, personal soil mix, no nutrients (yet). also what would I do with the leave(s) that has been all chewed up?


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## veggiegardener (Jun 16, 2013)

dirrtyd said:


> Nice seeing you VG still gleening through your thread. keepem green dirrtyd



Thanks for the greeting! Things are doing well in my garden this year after several weather issues. I'm currently photographically handicapped. A friend gave me a three foot clone of Pineapple Thai. Potent and among the best tasting herbs I've smoked. This is my third year growing it. When I brush against it(Now five feet tall) it gives off a potent blast of canned pineapple.


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## veggiegardener (Jun 16, 2013)

youngfarmer92 said:


> its my first grow and today I found like spider mites, centipedes, and other tiny bugs on my girl. how would I stop this pest problems? A little about my plant: Outdoor Grown, personal soil mix, no nutrients (yet). also what would I do with the leave(s) that has been all chewed up?


Leave the chewed up leaves, after inspecting them for bug eggs. Left alone, the plant will draw the energy from severely damaged leaves. If they don't turn brown and drop off, the plant has decided they are worth keeping. Let her be the judge.

Read up on your bug pests. Safer's insecticidal soap is effective against tiny insects/mites. Once "they" show up, they'll probably continue munching. Use all your resources to minimze their numbers. Don't forget the Bt.


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## angryblackman (Jun 16, 2013)

veggiegardener said:


> Thanks for the greeting! Things are doing well in my garden this year after several weather issues. I'm currently photographically handicapped. A friend gave me a three foot clone of Pineapple Thai. Potent and among the best tasting herbs I've smoked. This is my third year growing it. When I brush against it(Now five feet tall) it gives off a potent blast of canned pineapple.


Welcome back! I had a Pineapple Thai and it was my first "wish I had kept it" strain.


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## Rackdales (Jul 6, 2013)

First year ever growing, decided to go outdoors. I am running 3 autoflower plants and 3 photo plants. The autos are Azure rocket which is nearly impossible to find any info on and pink ogre. The photo plants are 2 chem dawg and 1 spacedawg.


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## Rackdales (Jul 6, 2013)

These are my two azure rocket autos. They are two completely different phenos. The one is a short bushy dominate single cola that's really filling out. http://m1367.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/rackdales/photo_zpsc30e67f3.jpg.html?o=0
The second is the purpling pheno that I think may come from the blue Himalayan. This one is taller lanky and not a very good producer. It's a really pretty plant though. 
http://m1367.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/rackdales/photo_zpsc8980f51.jpg.html?o=1


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## ammoniacal (Jul 7, 2013)

I hit my outdoor plants with BT followed by spinosad 2 weeks later them in 2 weeks BT again. It's all I can do to keep these caterpillars under control. I grow at 34` N in California where it is really dry and bright. The wet plants are really attractive to the dessert flying insects so if you grow in a south western environment you gotta use lots of these controls. And rinse them off with hydrogen peroxide water solution as you harvest to sterilize them, bugs have shat upon them after all.


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## azryda420 (Jul 7, 2013)

I used BT last year and i'm still not sure if it worked, I still found lots of worms. 

This year I have netting around the perimeter and a predator wasp nest inside my garden, I thank them for choosing this location, you can't walk in it without getting buzzed by many wasps.


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## Dibbsey (Jul 10, 2013)

Would safer's insecticidal spray work its for edible plants. But would it kill the larvae and prevent moths from coming afterwards? im in first week of budding. Have looked around for bt and can only find some real expensive shit at the hydroponics store they always jack up prices home hardware is out of stock and wont be getting any for awhile and wal mart doesnt carry it.


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## danbridge (Jul 23, 2013)

KushKing949 said:


> why in the world would you do that?????? i would seriously like to see you do it. I think it would be funny. and a lil dee dee dee !


I think he was joking. Sorry for answering a 5 year old post.


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## sallyann (Jul 24, 2013)

I have been growing outdoors for five years, with last year being the first I had problems with bud cat's. I want to do if there is anything (organic) that i can do Preventative wise,now, so that I can avoid the little monsters ?


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## Riverbuzzrat (Aug 2, 2013)

what is BT and where can i get it


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## jbrown3 (Aug 2, 2013)

Get safer caterpillar killer, you'll like it. Amazon has it


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## Lobochristy (Aug 5, 2013)

Smoke the worms


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## buckets (Aug 6, 2013)

Does the budworm problem happen all over the pacific northwest? Just curious.


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## 5toes (Aug 7, 2013)

azryda420 said:


> This year I have netting around the perimeter and a predator wasp nest inside my garden, I thank them for choosing this location, you can't walk in it without getting buzzed by many wasps.


I have a few buzzing my girls now. Seems like the caterpillars have been less damaging since the wasps showed up.


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## smokin away (Aug 7, 2013)

I'm growing in the Southwest. The strains I have used outside have been bug resistant knock on wood. Some chomping on the fan leaves but that's it. When I was younger I saw someone using Tobacco juice in a Hudson sprayer. It seemed to repel most bugs and was probably homemade. I decipher that it may have been as simple as chewing tobacco in water. I was wondering if any one has heard of such an item and whether it would be effective?

I too am left wondering what is BT? How about some names 

I'll look at Safer Caterpillar killer but if it's not organic I won't use it.


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## BigB 420 (Aug 7, 2013)

smokin away said:


> I'm growing in the Southwest. The strains I have used outside have been bug resistant knock on wood. Some chomping on the fan leaves but that's it. When I was younger I saw someone using Tobacco juice in a Hudson sprayer. It seemed to repel most bugs and was probably homemade. I decipher that it may have been as simple as chewing tobacco in water. I was wondering if any one has heard of such an item and whether it would be effective?
> 
> I too am left wondering what is BT? How about some names
> 
> I'll look at Safer Caterpillar killer but if it's not organic I won't use it.


BT is Bacillus thuringiensis. It's a bacteria. It's the active ingrediant in Safer and it's organic.


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## smokin away (Aug 7, 2013)

I just searched for the Safer stuff. Apparently BT is an ingredient in it called "bacillus thuringienesis (Bt) ". The dust product is for worms. They also sell a 3in1 product. It had mixed reviews and about 2.5 out of 5. It is marked an Organic material. It costs money to experiment with these items and I just don't know how effective they may be


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## blackdog (Aug 7, 2013)

use it at night, the active ingredient breaks down in the sun...then you'll make sure the little bastards eat it


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## smokin away (Aug 7, 2013)

I was searching on Wal-Mart and sure enough they sell the Safer material. They also carry a different product that is cheaper and has 4 out 5 star rating. I'm wondering if anyone has tried this material and whether it might work as well. It's organic and states is works for just about any pest about.
[h=1]Garlic Barrier Insect Repellent Liquid Spray, 1-Quart[/h]


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## smokin away (Aug 7, 2013)

smokin away said:


> I'm growing in the Southwest. The strains I have used outside have been bug resistant knock on wood. Some chomping on the fan leaves but that's it. When I was younger I saw someone using Tobacco juice in a Hudson sprayer. It seemed to repel most bugs and was probably homemade. I decipher that it may have been as simple as chewing tobacco in water. I was wondering if any one has heard of such an item and whether it would be effective?
> 
> I too am left wondering what is BT? How about some names
> 
> I'll look at Safer Caterpillar killer but if it's not organic I won't use it.


There is a recipe on E-how for tobacco juice. Evidently it's been used since the late 1800's. It explains everything at this site:
http://www.ehow.com/how_5577325_use-juice-control-pest-garden.html


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## greenthumber67 (Aug 16, 2013)

Are they in the adirondacks cause this is the first time I've heard of these things.


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## RIPE (Aug 18, 2013)

Can he use something like AzaMax, Active Ingredient is Azadirachtin? Is this something that should be used on a regular basis on outdoor plants? I'm trying to kill the fungus gnats larvae in my other potted plants before I put out any Mary Jane. What is the magic bullet for outdoor plants?? Thanks in advance.


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## RIPE (Aug 18, 2013)

Bacillus thuringiensis. It is a biologist's experiment in the sense that there are different strains. It kills mosquito larvae but not the mosquito. There is a strain that kills both but I doubt if they have ever marketed it. I don't have any yet but need to find some before I put my Mary Jane, should it actually sprout, outside under the bright sun. I would guess my local rip-off hydroponics store has some for the right price. There has got to be an honest place online that sells to the average budget - I usually use Amazon but since the Chinese invasion I have to scrutinize everything they sell.


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## bluntforcemarijuana (Aug 19, 2013)

RIPE said:


> Bacillus thuringiensis. It is a biologist's experiment in the sense that there are different strains. It kills mosquito larvae but not the mosquito.


Thanks for the info! I, too was wondering what this was. still a newbie, so I'm trying to get caught up and familiarized.


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## TWS (Aug 20, 2013)

Is this a bud worm ?


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## Urhighness88 (Aug 21, 2013)

TWS said:


> Is this a bud worm ?


wtf is that real?


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## junior870 (Aug 23, 2013)

TWS said:


> Is this a bud worm ?


that good sir is a monster! i would call the local zoos and tell them you got the next big attraction!


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## doublejj (Aug 24, 2013)

TWS said:


> Is this a bud worm ?


looks like tw's been using Maxsea again!lol


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## TWS (Aug 24, 2013)

This way I only have to watch one budworm, He eats the rest.


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## AaronHernadez (Aug 28, 2013)

I got some Seven spray for my plant that already has a few worms on it. Will it help?


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## skoobie dew (Aug 28, 2013)

AaronHernadez said:


> I got some Seven spray for my plant that already has a few worms on it. Will it help?


You want to smoke seven? Get some spinosad or bt.


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## smokin away (Aug 28, 2013)

smokin away said:


> There is a recipe on E-how for tobacco juice. Evidently it's been used since the late 1800's. It explains everything at this site:
> http://www.ehow.com/how_5577325_use-juice-control-pest-garden.html




I just read about a virus in another blog. It's called TMV. All though I have never experienced any of the symptoms I don't think it would be worth finding it out later. I also read on eHow that the Government is pulling all tobacco insecticides off the shelf. I guess some old fashioned remedies are just that.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/DG1168.html


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## ( . Y . ) (Aug 28, 2013)

it is said that cannabis cant replicate TMV but that has yet to be proven


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## smokin away (Aug 28, 2013)

I found another product similar to the Safer material. I bought something else from this company recently and it seems to work OK so far. It's the same BT product but instead of a dust it's in liquid form. Guess I'll look for it.

http://www.bonide.com/products/product.php?category_id=802


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## wvblazin (Sep 1, 2013)

When do the budworms first start to show? When your plant starts to bud? Are they a problem in the Northeast? I live on the border of PA/WV..


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## veggiegardener (Sep 2, 2013)

I've been using Bt for over 20 years. Originally on tomato plants, but one I discovered bud worms, I've used it on my pot plants as well, with excellent results. Bt not only protects Tomatoes and bud, but also peppers and everything in the cabbage/mustard family. There's a reason why those white and yellow quarter sized butterflies are called 'cabbage worms'. Try not to overuse Bt. Some caterpillars are the offspring of our prettiest butterflies.Especially those you might find on carrots and parsley.


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## Lobochristy (Sep 3, 2013)

I use this lol


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## Norcalbay (Sep 4, 2013)

I'm using catapillers killer on mine and they are half dead and some are just dead after sprayin last nite . What is BT?


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## Fungus Gnat (Sep 5, 2013)

Norcalbay said:


> I'm using catapillers killer on mine and they are half dead and some are just dead after sprayin last nite . What is BT?


A bacteria that burns holes into caterpillar intestines.


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## BigNBushy (Sep 7, 2013)

Can you get high from eating a worm you pull out of your buds?


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## skoobie dew (Sep 8, 2013)

Norcalbay said:


> I'm using catapillers killer on mine and they are half dead and some are just dead after sprayin last nite . What is BT?


It's the active ingredient in caterpillar killer.


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## TripleMindedGee5150 (Sep 12, 2013)

I fired up some eggs


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## FileError404 (Sep 12, 2013)

Can I spray BT and Spinosad at the same time or will that interfere with the bacteria?
Thanks!


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## TWS (Sep 13, 2013)




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## Krspies (Sep 13, 2013)

fuck! I pulled a few worms off my plant today. I pulled 2 off yesterday. One of these little assholes ate a hole right through the center of a top cola. bastard! Hubby's plant has plenty of them. He's thinking of pulling the plant so it doesn't get eaten up. ggrrrrrr give me back mites, I can handle those!


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## veggiegardener (Sep 13, 2013)

C'mon people! Do some READING. I've posted about Bt HUNDREDS of times on this thread! It works! It contains Bacillus thurengiensis which is 100% effective if applied THOROUGHLY. Most years I only see one or two worms. Some years, NONE. Unfortunately it is pretty much too late for this year. Your plants will reward hard work and punish neglect.


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## Krspies (Sep 13, 2013)

veggiegardener said:


> C'mon people! Do some READING. I've posted about Bt HUNDREDS of times on this thread! It works! It contains Bacillus thurengiensis which is 100% effective if applied THOROUGHLY. Most years I only see one or two worms. Some years, NONE. Unfortunately it is pretty much too late for this year. Your plants will reward hard work and punish neglect.


my problem is I can't find it. I went to lowe's, orchard's and our local hydro shop and was told they were sold out. obviously everyone has worms lol so I bought Garden Safe Multi-purpose killer. It's all I could find. it does not have BT in it though  Will this work? 
http://www.gardensafe.com/Products-and-Solutions/Insecticide/Multi-Purpose-Garden-Insect-Killer.aspx

It looks like it could be about a week or so before anyone in town is going to have BT. Even the Garden Safe with BT was sold out.


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## BigB 420 (Sep 13, 2013)

Amazon will ship it to your house. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000GA7ZO8


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## BWG707 (Sep 13, 2013)

Got mine from Amazon within 5 days. Before recieving it I used Monterey With spinosad 3x 3 to 5 days apart and so far it's worked. Each day found less and less worms now 3 days after the last spraying, no worms or even eggs. Might be able to save the BT for next year. Spinosad helps eliminate many pesky insects, completely destroyed my minor thrip problem and have never seen any spider mites.


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## BigB 420 (Sep 13, 2013)

BWG707 said:


> Got mine from Amazon within 5 days. Before recieving it I used Monterey With spinosad 3x 3 to 5 days apart and so far it's worked. Each day found less and less worms now 3 days after the last spraying, no worms or even eggs. Might be able to save the BT for next year. Spinosad helps eliminate many pesky insects, completely destroyed my minor thrip problem and have never seen any spider mites.


Spinosad is good stuff. Killed thrips for me quickly as well. 

I've been experimenting by mixing BT and Spinosad in the same sprayer and spraying them together. I want to see if the they still work when applied at the same time. So far it's working the same as when I apply them separately. So far. Not sure if I would recommend it just yet.


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## Krspies (Sep 13, 2013)

I saw the Monterey stuff too. wasn't sure about it because I couldn't remember what I read here so I left it alone. I thought about ordering some bt online but i was afraid if I waited that long I wouldn't have any bud left on my plants. This reminds me of getting rid of head lice when my kids were little, treat and pick...treat and pick. lol


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## TripleMindedGee5150 (Sep 13, 2013)

So I just trimmed my buds. Dried them for 72 hours. Didn't see any worms. Hallelujah praise the RIU Gods. I salvaged a zip.


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## BWG707 (Sep 14, 2013)

BigB 420 said:


> Spinosad is good stuff. Killed thrips for me quickly as well.
> 
> I've been experimenting by mixing BT and Spinosad in the same sprayer and spraying them together. I want to see if the they still work when applied at the same time. So far it's working the same as when I apply them separately. So far. Not sure if I would recommend it just yet.


Keep us up to date on mixing these, I've been wondering the same thing myself. It sure would be a killer of a mix.


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## BigB 420 (Sep 14, 2013)

BWG707 said:


> Keep us up to date on mixing these, I've been wondering the same thing myself. It sure would be a killer of a mix.


Yeah and a nice time saver as well. I'll report back after harvest. So far the only bad bugs I've seen are a few aphids and a few cucumber beetles.


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## MADVILLAIN.CA (Sep 15, 2013)

I can go to green thumb, home depot, lowes or orchard .... where can I find the best product? and what's it called. need to grab it today!


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## BigB 420 (Sep 15, 2013)

Safer brand caterpillar killer, Garden Safe Bt Worm and Caterpillar Killer Concentrate Liquid, there are several. Check the active ingredient on the front of the bottle for the Bt that you need.


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## alita (Sep 17, 2013)

does anyone know what tempatures budworms die at. i got beautifhl buds but im sure there are some worms in them. ive been using azamax and picking them off everyday. i have bout a month left till i harvest and wanted to do an extra cleanse before they are smokable.


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## dante76 (Sep 18, 2013)

alita said:


> does anyone know what tempatures budworms die at. i got beautifhl buds but im sure there are some worms in them. ive been using azamax and picking them off everyday. i have bout a month left till i harvest and wanted to do an extra cleanse before they are smokable.


Ifs not too hot for your plants, budworms won't die....meaning it'll never get hot enough for them to die unless you burn your plant down. You should try spinosad or bt like the other peoe in this thread and continue to pick them off everyday. Look in all crevices of your flowers. They are masters at keeping hidden


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## alita (Sep 18, 2013)

your right. i kept a caterpillar in a jar to see how they work and they are strong creatures! they can withstand fire for bout ten seconds. its crazy. they sell bt at walmart or fredmeyerk? ive tried searchinf through my buds but thefe too dense. i feel like i ruin my buds when im check the crevices.


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## dante76 (Sep 18, 2013)

alita said:


> your right. i kept a caterpillar in a jar to see how they work and they are strong creatures! they can withstand fire for bout ten seconds. its crazy. they sell bt at walmart or fredmeyerk? ive tried searchinf through my buds but thefe too dense. i feel like i ruin my buds when im check the crevices.


Walmart? Maybe. Try your local nurseries, they'll have catepillar killer for sure. Use some tweeters, toothpick it even a screwdriver to bend the buds back to check those crevices. I was hesitant before but don't worry. Just bend them back enough to see if u can see them or if there's any damage. They'll be ok


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## FonzoB5S420 (Sep 18, 2013)

how much of the safer cat killer do you guys recomend per gal? i had used this stuff once before, a very long time ago, and burnt all my buds. i'm pretty sure i used WAAAAY to much! they say on the instructions to use 1-2 teaspoons or up to 4 teaspoons if its really bad. i use azamax twice a week @ 15ml per gal and these things still keep coming!

thanks in advance for any help.


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## B0SSofB0SSES (Sep 19, 2013)

fucking caterpillars....i was so excited to chop some of my bud but when i did the fuckers were everywhere...1st outdoor grow....ehhh u live n u learn....next year ill be more prepared spraying with BT thru veg and mid flower and using tin foil and vaseline on the stalk....i never hated caterpillars until now lol....Thank god they didnt infest all the bud....had to toss out about 10-15 % cut from the 1st 2 plants...shit happens...happy tokes


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## ggi (Sep 19, 2013)

Is this a "bud worm"? What kind of bug is this?

I keep finding them on my plant... 
I have already applied Neem Oil Solution + Safe Bug Soap + Tanglefoot... and I am still finding these things!
This one is from this morning and I sprayed Bug Soap last night, so I guess they are not impacted from that.

I'm kind of worn out from dealing with pests. I have already bought a lot of stuff to keep them at bay and they have come back time and time again. Nature wants to eat my weed.


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## FonzoB5S420 (Sep 19, 2013)

ggi said:


> View attachment 2827529
> Is this a "bud worm"? What kind of bug is this?
> 
> I keep finding them on my plant...
> ...


thats the same type of worm i have.


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## AaronHernadez (Sep 19, 2013)

Does anybody having experience using tobacco and water and sprayed it on ur plants during flowering? Thinking about trying this tomorrow morning heard they hate it.


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## japanese steel (Sep 21, 2013)

I just spent the last half hour outside chopping a bunch of my plants because of these fuckers. It is such a tedious job trying to look through all the buds for them. I killed about 10 of them that were dug deep into the bud and stem. I'm getting worried about how much I will even be able to salvage off these 2 plants.

I'm getting worn out waiting for these plants to finish up. The pest problem is just ridiculous and I'm unable to get any Bt at the moment because I'm broke as fuck and live in the boondocks.


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## Krspies (Sep 22, 2013)

hey guys my husbands plant had a ton of these. everywhere in my town was sold out of BT so I bought garden safe general purpose killer that did not have BT in it but said it worked on tomato hornworms so I gave it a go. We sprayed every morning for 3 mornings and every morning I went at it with tweezers. It's like treating headlice. you have to treat and pick. pull those buds apart and use a magnifying glass because the green ones blend in. 

After the 3 days I went behind with regular old hydrogen peroxide and sprayed the hell out of the buds. I soaked them good. We ended up pulling his plant because it was ready and we didn't want to have to battle another round. The peroxide kept the damage from spreading. The buds are drying as we speak. they go into jars tomorrow. So far we have seen no more catepillars and his plant was covered in them. big fat fuckers too! gggrrrrr I hate these stupid worms. 

My plant had a few worms and I only got one really good spray in of the safe garden stuff because we used it all on my husband's plant. I worm hunted on my plant every day too and also treated it with peroxide. my plant is still in the soil and I'm not finding anymore worms. The damage is not spreading and my plant is looking pretty darn good I have to say. 

Just thought I'd offer up what I've done to fight these things. good luck everyone!


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## japanese steel (Sep 22, 2013)

Well, last night I pulled a few popcorn buds off the bottom of my plant and quick dried them. I just smoked a bowl and it did get me quite high but I know my plants still have at least 3 or 4 weeks left on them and first frost should be hitting around then too. Most of the pistils are still white but the buds are getting a bit damaged from me digging around in them looking for worms. I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and harvest now or try to battle these bastards for 4 more weeks?

I do have a nice high right now and the bud wasn't even dried properly or cured.


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## FonzoB5S420 (Sep 23, 2013)

used the "BT" last week on Tuesday and havent seen one since. i've only come across a couple dead spots here and there from where these death worms had been eating. 

i'm running five plants, which are all over 6ft. its a bitch looking through them all, but cant find any since the spraying. i ended up using two teaspoons/gal. i am also using azamax 2x a week @ 15ml. 

fingers crossed.


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## Loto (Sep 24, 2013)

I am using Safer "BT".. highly recommend. Start looking for worms on the best buds first. They tend to go for the best ones. If you see a dying leaf, that is your sign to investigate. a little search will lead you the worm. once I started with BT, they haven't been a problem and the ones I find are dead or dying.


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## Krspies (Sep 24, 2013)

well here we are 2 days from when I last said everything was okay and my plant had a bunch of caterpillars. I went all over 2 towns in search of bt and I could not find any. walmart, target, orchard, tractor supply, home depot, lowes, kmart and the feed store. Everybody is out. I picked up some bayer advanced that says it kills all kinds of worms and caterpillars including the cabbage looper which is most of what I have. little bastards are also eating the hell out of my broccoli plants not just my pot plants. I really don't want to use the bayer advanced because it has permethrin in it. I am afraid to poison myself because it is too close to the end. I"ll be lucky to keep this plant in the soil for 2 more weeks. temps have gotten drastically colder and she's gone purplish. 

Just before dusk I dunked my buds in 3% hydrogen peroxide. I poured that shit down the stems and just basically soaked the plant in it. my plant is small, I used lst techniques so it is a manageable plant. I literally doused the damn thing in peroxide and let it air dry. there was a nice breeze tonight so it dried pretty quickly.

I am not afraid to go organic . I brewed up a pot of peppers from my garden. I grow thai red dragon peppers and jalapenos so I cut up 6 of each and added 1/4 cup crushed red pepper and 1/4 cup of cayenne pepper, 1 whole onion, 1 whole head of garlic to 6 cups of water. brought it to a boil, steeped it for 30 minutes, strained it and soaked the fuck out of my buds. That shit was so hot that there is no way the worms will be able to eat it. 

I worm hunt in my buds almost every day but the last couple of days have been busy because my son who is stationed in the navy is home on leave. I haven't seen him in a long time so my garden wasn't my top priority. I'll be worm hunting every morning again starting tomorrow. hopefully this method works because there is no damn BT anywhere in my town and I don't have time to wait to order it online.


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## BWG707 (Sep 25, 2013)

Krspies said:


> well here we are 2 days from when I last said everything was okay and my plant had a bunch of caterpillars. I went all over 2 towns in search of bt and I could not find any. walmart, target, orchard, tractor supply, home depot, lowes, kmart and the feed store. Everybody is out. I picked up some bayer advanced that says it kills all kinds of worms and caterpillars including the cabbage looper which is most of what I have. little bastards are also eating the hell out of my broccoli plants not just my pot plants. I really don't want to use the bayer advanced because it has permethrin in it. I am afraid to poison myself because it is too close to the end. I"ll be lucky to keep this plant in the soil for 2 more weeks. temps have gotten drastically colder and she's gone purplish.
> 
> Just before dusk I dunked my buds in 3% hydrogen peroxide. I poured that shit down the stems and just basically soaked the plant in it. my plant is small, I used lst techniques so it is a manageable plant. I literally doused the damn thing in peroxide and let it air dry. there was a nice breeze tonight so it dried pretty quickly.
> 
> ...


You can also use something with spinosad in it, such as Monterey.


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## Krspies (Sep 25, 2013)

BWG707 said:


> You can also use something with spinosad in it, such as Monterey.


I did consider that because I've been following this thread. a couple of weeks ago I saw some of that but I can't find that in town either. I just spent some time out there digging around in my bud and I found 3 dead worms. I couldn't find any more worms so I'm hoping that's a good sign and not a sign of me missing them. hubby wants me to pull the plant but I think its too early.


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## PhilGoode (Oct 1, 2013)

Just wondering if the worms will vacate during the drying process. Or will they still eat the bud?


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## NikeSmoke (Oct 2, 2013)

*S W E E T ! ! ! *


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## Xub420 (Oct 2, 2013)

I hung some buds straight off the plant. in the garage. the next day, their were little strings with worms at the ends of them, like they were escaping the drying process. It makes a bit of sense because they seem to suck every bit of moisture out of the nugs when its still on the plant. It wasn't all of them though. just little fresh hatch lookin mofos.

So i think they didn't have enough moisture to hang around in the plant. I also never seen a caterpillar or worm eat dried bud either.


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## coffeenbud (Oct 3, 2013)

do these worms leaves tight white webs in the nugs, that are stringy if you pull it apart? the worms are on it for sure but i want to make sure its not mould.


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## Lobochristy (Oct 4, 2013)

Is [h=1]Safer Brand Caterpillar Killer with BT good ?[/h]


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## Rold2Tight (Oct 4, 2013)

Lobochristy said:


> Is *Safer Brand Caterpillar Killer with BT good ?*


That's the one LC, or as BWG707 posted Monterey with spinosad works well too. I alternate them about every 4 days and I think I am winning the war  After losing at least 1/4 lb of bud...LOL 

Good luck 

R2T


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## BigB 420 (Oct 4, 2013)

Lobochristy said:


> Is [h=1]Safer Brand Caterpillar Killer with BT good ?[/h]


Yes. I've been using it weekly. Started spraying in July. I also spray with Monterey garden spray with Spinosad. Sometimes I mix them and spray them together to save time.

I also use a bug zapper in my front yard to draw the moths away at night and kill them.

I've had one caterpillar this year so far and it was already dead when I found it.


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## Gypsy088 (Oct 4, 2013)

_Hey Sugar, leave the bumblebees alone!! Don't be afraid, they won't hurt you. They are just very curious and maybe a little too friendly for your liking... I have several different kinds, from really big black ones to little black ones, to black and yellow ones, and even big fat beautiful shiny gold ones that really love to show off... I even pet them! When one comes near you speak to it! Stop laughing, I'm serious. Use a tone like you're talking to a kitten, and reach your hand out. Your tone will tell it you're not a threat and extending your hand will make it keep a greater distance while checking you out... Then it will simply fly away. Try it, you'll be amazed at how well it works!!_


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## Lobochristy (Oct 4, 2013)

BigB 420 said:


> Yes. I've been using it weekly. Started spraying in July. I also spray with Monterey garden spray with Spinosad. Sometimes I mix them and spray them together to save time.
> 
> I also use a bug zapper in my front yard to draw the moths away at night and kill them.
> 
> I've had one caterpillar this year so far and it was already dead when I found it.


Do you use it daily or weekly ? I've been using it daily will it burn the leaves


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## BigB 420 (Oct 4, 2013)

Lobochristy said:


> Do you use it daily or weekly ? I've been using it daily will it burn the leaves


Weekly. I tried to spray BT, wait 2-3 days, then spray Spinosad, repeat, but work and weather got in the way so I didn't keep a perfect schedule. I did burn a a couple of my stunted reveged plants but I think that was from using too much soap in my mix. Others plants took the same mix without issue though so it could have just been those plants. You could always start with a half strength mix and test it on a few leaves before you hose down a plant just to see how she takes it.


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## Chartreuse Spruce (Oct 5, 2013)

Fucking maggots! I know! so I read the first page and skipped right to the last so this maybe mentioned and sorry if it has. Has anyone ever thought to put crushed egg shells at the base of their plants for this maggot problem? I don't mean a few, but a lot of finely crushed shells. It is advised with some plants in regular gardening. I am thinking these kind of caterpillars crawl up the stems rather that hatching already in the bud. Supposedly the shells will cut them so they wont crawl over. But I don't really know, maybe they do hatch in the bud.


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## BWG707 (Oct 5, 2013)

Chartreuse Spruce said:


> Fucking maggots! I know! so I read the first page and skipped right to the last so this maybe mentioned and sorry if it has. Has anyone ever thought to put crushed egg shells at the base of their plants for this maggot problem? I don't mean a few, but a lot of finely crushed shells. It is advised with some plants in regular gardening. I am thinking these kind of caterpillars crawl up the stems rather that hatching already in the bud. Supposedly the shells will cut them so they wont crawl over. But I don't really know, maybe they do hatch in the bud.


Eggs are laid on the buds and usually the bud grows around the eggs so they are in bedded in your bud. They will hatch and either stay inside the bud while eating away at it or they will crawl out for whatever reasons.


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## kristobal (Oct 6, 2013)

Ok does anyone know if the moth or any other butterflys stop laying eggs at one point ? or do i have to expect more coccons even in october ?


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## Chartreuse Spruce (Oct 6, 2013)

I think they all hatch at once and then there are no more.


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## kristobal (Oct 6, 2013)

Chartreuse Spruce said:


> I think they all hatch at once and then there are no more.


ok thanks i thought so to cause it seems like they are all maturing and chewing at the same time..


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## onlytheone (Oct 6, 2013)

Check out this little guy I found staring up at me and smiling. He was about 8 inches away from the base of my plant! I did a little research and found out it's a Spicebush Swallowtail caterpillar. I did not kill him, I moved him to the other side of my yard. Funny lookin little guy!


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## BigB 420 (Oct 6, 2013)

onlytheone said:


> Check out this little guy I found staring up at me and smiling. He was about 8 inches away from the base of my plant! I did a little research and found out it's a Spicebush Swallowtail caterpillar. I did not kill him, I moved him to the other side of my yard. Funny lookin little guy!
> View attachment 2848583View attachment 2848582View attachment 2848586


Wow. That's nuts. Nature is weird man. My guess is that he looks like a snake so that birds won't eat him.


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## Ismokeittoo (Oct 11, 2013)

I think that end is his butt.


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## Ismokeittoo (Oct 11, 2013)

Watch out for worm eggs to be on nursery plants that you buy.
I got tomato plants from Home Depot this year that had worm eggs. No tomato worm moths here but I had tomato worms on my tomatoes.


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## 420rhino (Oct 14, 2013)

there gorgeous trees just love the Color of the Mota Buds awesome View attachment 2857841View attachment 2857846View attachment 2857847View attachment 2857842View attachment 2857843this Only One White-Rhino The Final Stage of Flowering!! First time Grower! lol,


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## 420rhino (Oct 17, 2013)

can anyone tell me what the hell is that to left of the leaves I see theses Black little thing'!!! Need some feedback,!!!!!


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## 420rhino (Oct 17, 2013)

View attachment 2861299That Caterpillar looks like a little toy.!!! lol, hey there can you look at this Photo & tell me what the hell is that to the left of the photo See these black thing's On the leaves!!! ?


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## BWG707 (Oct 17, 2013)

Could be fly shit.


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## pabloesqobar (Oct 18, 2013)

420rhino said:


> View attachment 2861298can anyone tell me what the hell is that to left of the leaves I see theses Black little thing'!!! Need some feedback,!!!!!


Kinda looks like worm poop to me. Check directly above that spot and look for worms/caterpillars.


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## FilthyFletch (Oct 18, 2013)

Could be baby catapillars hard to see. Looks like didnt get much light though as the buds are small and underformed thats for sure. Almost looks like bud rot on the hairs forming.


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## Villa (Oct 25, 2013)

out of 26 plants i only had maybe 12 bud worms this year. i wonder if its because i use bt in my soil. i crush up mosquito dunks in my soil to prevent fungus gnats and thripes (yes it works great for this). i wonder if using it in the soil helped repell them?


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## ilyaas123 (Jan 13, 2014)

Woah... your plants are looking *beautiful*


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## ebuds13 (Jan 14, 2014)

anyone use spinosad for these fuckers?


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## MariJuanita (Jan 26, 2014)

Will Spinosad and Neem oil kill ALL worms/insects? I don't want to use anything that will kill the beneficials -- like my ladybugs.


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## easy jimmy (Feb 23, 2014)

worms that eat bud suck I have had those in los angeles before ,,,they suck I never sprayed before ,I never spray the weed make sure you wash it one week before harvest ,,,,


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## gazajay808 (Mar 15, 2014)

ok my land had alot of pest and bugs on my plants last year is it a better way to prepare myself for this grow (spidermites and other insects)


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## gR33nDav3l0l (Apr 8, 2014)

Found this little fuck cold lamping on my fucking stalk. There were 3 more after this one.


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## thump easy (Apr 15, 2014)

shit i got a fucken problem my grape tree stangled my bud tree no lie and it want to reach for the other one two.. ill post pic in the morning..


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## TWS (Apr 15, 2014)

whats that got to do with budworms Thump ?


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## thump easy (Apr 19, 2014)

tws im stoned man give a stoner a break.. lolz im not normal something is wrong inside my head for realz.. or its just out thier!!! your write i was gona post a pic of worms and i seen that my fucken grape tree strangled my bud plant but origianaly i was gona post pics..


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## Daub Marley (Apr 23, 2014)

ebuds13 said:


> anyone use spinosad for these fuckers?


Yeah I have used spinosad and it is not strong enough to kill the caterpillars alone. I combine it with some BT and spray it throughout veg and I still get them. This year I think I might get some netting for them and put some tanglefoot around the trunk. If you ever get thrips though spinosad is basically the only cure.


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## thump easy (Apr 24, 2014)

Thrips use azosol it's a powder neem I know it sounds crazy but fuuuuuucccckkkkk!!! I didn't believe it till I tried it..
Not oil it's water soluble this auto spell checks a some !!!on this tablet


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## TWS (May 7, 2014)




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## veggiegardener (May 8, 2014)

Hi, all!

We're expecting 100 degree weather next week. This may inspire an early appearance of the Fiery Skipper butterfly here in the Central Valley. If you are going to use Bt, consider spraying before the 1st of June. Happy growing!


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## S'Manta (May 8, 2014)

veggiegardener said:


> Hi, all!
> 
> We're expecting 100 degree weather next week. This may inspire an early appearance of the Fiery Skipper butterfly here in the Central Valley. If you are going to use Bt, consider spraying before the 1st of June. Happy growing!


I found a bud worm, today. I am in Central Ca., too. I'm going to buy some of that organic BT caterpillar killer but our temps are going to soar in the next few days, is it too late to use it? TIA


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## Rhizosphere (May 9, 2014)

Dan Nabis said:


> I think I would dry those worms out and crush em up into a bowl and puff away.


nothing like smokin a bud worm haha!!


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## BWG707 (May 11, 2014)

TWS said:


>


Damn I hate seeing that! I can handle most outdoor pests but budworms drive me crazy. Time for the tweezers. It is funny though, I've had strains that for some reason the worms wouldn't touch. But I hate to limit myself to those particular strains.


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## FresnoFarmer (May 11, 2014)

S'Manta said:


> I found a bud worm, today. I am in Central Ca., too. I'm going to buy some of that organic BT caterpillar killer but our temps are going to soar in the next few days, is it too late to use it? TIA


Nope, not too late. Spray before night fall though, as this is when alot of pests are most active and in the day time our high uv levels degrade the BT. I had worms tearing up my garden bed one year and after a week of BT they were pretty much all gone. But still continue to use it because moths/butterflys love to lay lots of eggs. I have started treating my front yard garden with BT because worms have started to tear up my mint plant. I have seen little butterflys flying out when I spray too. I used to think that butterflies were cute. Now, I hate them lol.


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## S'Manta (May 12, 2014)

theQUOTE="FresnoFarmer, post: 10492733, member: 428905"]Nope, not too late. Spray before night fall though, as this is when alot of pests are most active and in the day time our high uv levels degrade the BT. I had worms tearing up my garden bed one year and after a week of BT they were pretty much all gone. But still continue to use it because moths/butterflys love to lay lots of eggs. I have started treating my front yard garden with BT because worms have started to tear up my mint plant. I have seen little butterflys flying out when I spray too. I used to think that butterflies were cute. Now, I hate them lol.[/QUOTE]

I hate them, too. I think I nipped it in the bud....groan.... I had no idea growing a weed, correctly, was as mind boggling as growing orchids.  
Thankewe, FF. Stay cool...jumping to the 90's this week.


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## TripleMindedGee5150 (May 16, 2014)

TWS said:


>


Damn that's what I had last year. I was pissed off. My frosiest plant got hit hard. I had to use spinsad late in bloom. I've been already fighting bugs and I'm barely even starting . Seedlings and establishing roots stage. I hate spraying the plants but I'm not going to make the same mistake. 

Been using neem and spinsad interchangeably(like it's war) I'm wondering where can I get Mantis eggs and lady bugs(bay area ca) ?? I have a netting that should keep them around for ahwhile. But don't the poop on the plants ? 

Edit : oh what are those little mini locust looking leaf eaters called ?? They look like little triangles, brownish in color 

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## BWG707 (May 16, 2014)

Might sound crazy but I get my tweezers and look over my buds ( I know its a lot of looking and time consuming). I look for the eggs as well as the worms. You can hear/feel the eggs pop when smashed. I look for dis colored or dried bud leaves, then start gently digging for the worm. I've found that an hour or so after sunrise the worms get active and you can find them on the outside of the buds. And for some damn reason they seek out the best buds on your plants! I caught one at the very top of my main cola just getting ready to dig in, luckily I saw him. After a while you seem to be able to spot them easier and easier. They are the scourge of my garden.


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## TripleMindedGee5150 (May 16, 2014)

So is BT > or = 2 to spinsad ?

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## BWG707 (May 17, 2014)

Haven't had enough experience with both to give an accurate answer. I'm sure some other growers here would be able to answer that.


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## JackandJill (May 19, 2014)

I found like 10 worms in 1 plant when I was breaking it down and manicuring it. Here's a snap with the microscope.


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## JackandJill (May 19, 2014)

Should the plant just go into compost or is it Kosher to toss the buds that look dead and smoke the rest?


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## Sparkticus (May 20, 2014)

BWG707 said:


> Might sound crazy but I get my tweezers and look over my buds ( I know its a lot of looking and time consuming). I look for the eggs as well as the worms. You can hear/feel the eggs pop when smashed. I look for dis colored or dried bud leaves, then start gently digging for the worm. I've found that an hour or so after sunrise the worms get active and you can find them on the outside of the buds. And for some damn reason they seek out the best buds on your plants! I caught one at the very top of my main cola just getting ready to dig in, luckily I saw him. After a while you seem to be able to spot them easier and easier. They are the scourge of my garden.


Aye.... tweezer time. Found one between two popcorn nugs on the bottom of a stem. I'm so close, I'll be tweezing until I chop. Did a thorough check on the rest of the girl and she has no bites/poop anywhere but that one spot.


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## kmog33 (May 21, 2014)

So what does everyone here use for these bastards? Just started popping up on some of mine so im about to go buy something new to deal with them. Opinions would be appreciated. 

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## kmog33 (May 21, 2014)

JackandJill said:


> Should the plant just go into compost or is it Kosher to toss the buds that look dead and smoke the rest?


Throw away rotten bud, smoke the rest 

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Rollitup mobile app


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## veggiegardener (May 21, 2014)

I've been using BT for about thirty years. The3 reason? The shit works. I found one dead worm while trimming. No live ones last fall. This success is due to spraying every two or three weeks with Bt. I take great care to cover the plants thoroughly. It is completely non toxic and organic. I stop spraying about September 10th, depending on weather and and frequency of butterfly sightings. Good growing, everyone. Looks like a bumper season coming up.


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## FresnoFarmer (May 23, 2014)

I hate these bastards. I'm starting to see leaf damage on my tomatoes and radishes. Just like veggiegardener said, the 100 degree heat brought these bastards to life.


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## TheDirtGrub (May 24, 2014)

Hey I just put some clones outside and they've gone unrequestedly into flower any suggestions on how to fix my problem short of popping on a light?


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## Hubey (May 24, 2014)

I live in alberta. I've seen caterpillars but never really on my plants. Usually black an yellow fuzzy things. Does anything eat dem caterpillars? Birds? I got a shit ton of frogs here. One year grasshoppers but again just kinda stayed away from plants. Perhaps cause the proximity to a drying up lake, a swamp.
Have had a lot of ant problems. Spiders, not spider mites. Spiders just make homes in leaves they curl over.
Caterpillars are coming at some point I'm sure of it.
3 years now an each year is something different.


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## FresnoFarmer (May 27, 2014)

Frogs eat the moths and butterflies that worms become. Lizards too. Grasshoppers suck. They can destroy a plant in no time. Birds like to eat all the grubs and worms out of my compost piles. I love catching large spiders and bringing them to my garden. They protect the plants pretty good. My favorite is praying mantises. They will tear up a grasshopper twice their size.


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## veggiegardener (May 28, 2014)

Regarding early flowering, I've found that when I move plants from artificial lighting on an 18-6 or 16-8, putting a small light on a timer among them. I set the timer to come on 16 or 18 hours before sunset, and reduce this time by a half hour per week. The light only needs to come on for about 30 minutes. This is enought to 'lengthen' the day.


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## veggiegardener (Jun 6, 2014)

Did my second application of Bt/caterpillar killer today. I apply it every two or three weeks until mid flowering or the second week of September. The late applications are a fine mist instead of a soaking spray. Bt is suspended in a sugary sollution. I prefer not to have it penetrate dense buds because the sugar can attract mold. Two days after an application. I'm careful to hose down the plants to remove the residue. The Bt remains on the plant, awaiting the vicious 'pillars'.


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## tioMATE (Jun 13, 2014)

I stopped spraying years ago and bought a bird bath. By spraying you eliminate a whole level of the food chain in your garden and ur going to experience problems, and chase that mistake the whole season. Instead attract birds and predator insects. Organic gardening is about ecological balance. If u have infestations then your ecosystem is unbalanced. There's websites that sell "good bug blend" seeds. These are seed mixes designed to attract predatory insects. I plant them along the borders and unused patches of garden. Haven't had a problem in years.


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## PsychoticOne (Jun 13, 2014)

Might sound like a silly question but I am gonna ask it anyway, what is BT?


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## veggiegardener (Jun 13, 2014)

Bt is bacillus thurengiensis. It kills the caterpillars of all moths and butterflies. Cannabis attracts certain butterflies which lay eggs on the plants. Don't spray this bacterium on any plants but those you want to prevent caterpillar on. Tomatoes, peppers and Cannabis each attract 'pillars.


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## veggiegardener (Jun 13, 2014)

tioMATE said:


> I stopped spraying years ago and bought a bird bath. By spraying you eliminate a whole level of the food chain in your garden and ur going to experience problems, and chase that mistake the whole season. Instead attract birds and predator insects. Organic gardening is about ecological balance. If u have infestations then your ecosystem is unbalanced. There's websites that sell "good bug blend" seeds. These are seed mixes designed to attract predatory insects. I plant them along the borders and unused patches of garden. Haven't had a problem in years.


This treatment is specific to pests that can destroy a pot garden in a few days, left unaddressed. Bt is considered an organic remedy. Only companies like Monsanto abuse its use. I gardened organically for thirty years and understand your reservations, BUT these caterpillars affect a garden like a swarm of locusts can affect a wheat field.


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## PsychoticOne (Jun 13, 2014)

My first grow last year I was fighting these little green caterpillars like crazy, ended up pulling my beautiful baby girl early because I just couldnt keep up with them or their shitting.....Don't really want to head down that road again this season if I can help it. Cheers veggiegardener for the info.


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## veggiegardener (Jun 13, 2014)

Best brand I've found is "Safer's Caterpillar Killer". It is easily found on line. Amazon.com has it. About $12.


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## PsychoticOne (Jun 13, 2014)

cheers mate, will check it out.


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## tioMATE (Jun 14, 2014)

I always have tomatoes and pepper growing nearby, maybe the worms are attracted to them instead but I haven't had this problem yet (knock on wood). I have read a few studies on BT and although they say its non toxic to mammals and birds the tests show rats died when ingesting it in higher doses. I sit in my yard and watch the birds pick worms off my plants and I'd b scared that spraying would drive them away (for lack of food). Beside the occasional bird shit on a fan leaf they're my favorite form of pest control, but il keep BT in mind as an organic solution, thanks veggiegardener.


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## veggiegardener (Jun 14, 2014)

tioMATE said:


> I always have tomatoes and pepper growing nearby, maybe the worms are attracted to them instead but I haven't had this problem yet (knock on wood). I have read a few studies on BT and although they say its non toxic to mammals and birds the tests show rats died when ingesting it in higher doses. I sit in my yard and watch the birds pick worms off my plants and I'd b scared that spraying would drive them away (for lack of food). Beside the occasional bird shit on a fan leaf they're my favorite form of pest control, but il keep BT in mind as an organic solution, thanks veggiegardener.


You're very welcome! The worms that attack weed are generally very small, reaching about an inch long, before making a cocoon, but do a ton of damage due to mold that develops on their feces. The Tomato Horn Worm is MUCH larger, reaching as long as four inches. Their damage is easy to spot if you look for it. If you do find defoliated stems near the top of the plant, the well camoflaged worm will be nearby, hiding in the lower foliage. The horn worms are very sensitive to Bt and easily controlled with applications every week or two.


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## PsychoticOne (Jun 14, 2014)

Might consider planting some veggies around my plant this season and see what happens, last season I had so many green caterpillars I couldn't keep up! I am unable to get BT so easily in Australia, I have found that the Yates Caterpillar Killer has BT in it so I am guessing that would be the closest comparison, might give it a go. How often would you say to apply? once a week?


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## tioMATE (Jun 14, 2014)

I've heard of commercial growers in Colorado having potted bean plants in the grow rooms and green houses. They're reasoning was spider mites and other insects will almost always attack the beans first. So u can spray beans, not buds. Haven't tried it tho.


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## foreverflyhi (Jun 16, 2014)

I agree with baalnce of environment. 

Companion crops, beneficial insects birds, lizards are also your friends. 

I also believe medium plays a huge role, healthy soil equals strong immune system.
Till this day I've yet to encounter a infestation indoors, 
HOWEVER having said that, healthy immune system or not, bastard caterpillars will fuck your garden up!
BT and other IPMs keep me clear from bad outdoor bugs, which really is only the infamous caterpillar. And no BT will not harm most beneficial bugs and birds as long as its used to a minimum and precise. Also would like to mention, ive recently tried scots og blasted with BT grown by a riu organic grower and wow, taste and high was not effected by BT believe it or not. Just my experience


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## Darrin661 (Jun 20, 2014)

No one likes smokeing worms...take care of your plants.


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## Mr. Bongwater (Jul 20, 2014)

just be like "worm maan you got to pay me if you wants to smoke up all my shit"


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## mwooten102 (Jul 21, 2014)

Lol the piesas east the worms add they work the fields. It's supposed to get you high.

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## Aweshit (Jul 21, 2014)

bterz said:


> wtf I thought this was all stuff up north.
> 
> If your plants are in pots does this reduce the chance of getting them....
> 
> Damn im scared now!!


I spray Catapillar killer from June 15 to six weeks from harvest. But if you have them already tried Dawn dish soap and water


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## veggiegardener (Jul 25, 2014)

Just spray Bt. The next bite will kill them.


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## mike lanza (Jul 27, 2014)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


what would be the best seed strain to start out with as a beginer, is there a strain that is good and takes the least amoaunt of time too bloom heheh...


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## Daub Marley (Jul 31, 2014)

My plan is to use this type of fabric on the plants this year to prevent the caterpillars. 
Does anyone have experience with it?


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## mike lanza (Jul 31, 2014)

really never heard of that it works though??


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## mwooten102 (Aug 2, 2014)

Every year somebody tries something like this and its yet to prevent anything except from keeping natural predators from keeping pests populations under control.

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## Daub Marley (Aug 2, 2014)

mwooten102 said:


> Every year somebody tries something like this and its yet to prevent anything except from keeping natural predators from keeping pests populations under control.


 Well maybe I won't do anything but will wait and pray for birds to tear apart my buds so they can eat the caterpillars. There are no effective natural predators for them or it wouldn't be a problem dipshit.
It's gardening fabric and is made with the intention to keep out bugs and insects. A neighbor tried it last year and said it worked really well. It's not a cure all just another weapon to fight them with. We'll see how well it works. Anything is better than spraying your plants late into budding.


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## veggiegardener (Aug 3, 2014)

Daub Marley said:


> Well maybe I won't do anything but will wait and pray for birds to tear apart my buds so they can eat the caterpillars. There are no effective natural predators for them or it wouldn't be a problem dipshit.
> It's gardening fabric and is made with the intention to keep out bugs and insects. A neighbor tried it last year and said it worked really well. It's not a cure all just another weapon to fight them with. We'll see how well it works. Anything is better than spraying your plants late into budding.


I've been using Bt for MANY years. It is non toxic and has no effect on taste or quality. I spray Bt and then wash my girls down a day or two later. The Bt remains effective because it is a bacteria and remains on the plant in sufficient numbers to kill the worms. The moths/butterflies are usually gone by mid September, here in the valley.

Enjoy your moldy buds.


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## rastadude (Aug 3, 2014)

where can i purchase BT? is it something that home depot carries or the local nursery?


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## dante76 (Aug 7, 2014)

The best defense for budworms is SPINOSAD...this stuff works. I swear by it. In order to get the best results from it, you'd have to spray your plants 2 -3 times per week during each week of flowering. Spinosad is most effective at killing larvae and the small hatchlings that emerge from eggs laid by moths/butterflies. BT only kills adult catepilliars.
If you spray the flowers with spinosad as directed ( 2 - 3x per week) you'll be killing any new eggs laid during flowering; as a result there will never reach the adult stage. At first I was worried about spraying this stuff directly on the flowers but didn't have any problems. Its totally organic and if you're worried still, use MightyWash before or after harvest to clean your bud.
My last harvest, i lost 75% of my bud to catepillars; my new harvest....0%; no catepilliars; no damage to any buds!!! Just don't go too long between spraying becuase moths lay eggs constantly.


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Aug 7, 2014)

Noticed I had a bunch of holes in the leaves of some of my plants....I didnt see any caterpillars but I wasnt looking for them either.....I guess I assumed it was some bugs that were eating them.....my plants are a long ways away from me....so if I go I should bring stuff rather than going there then going to get stuff and returning.....

Safe to assume caterpillars ? And if so, spray down with BT or that spinosad stuff ?

I'm in the NE US, plants really have not started flowering yet....

Thanks, SC


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 7, 2014)

SpaaaceCowboy said:


> Noticed I had a bunch of holes in the leaves of some of my plants....I didnt see any caterpillars but I wasnt looking for them either.....I guess I assumed it was some bugs that were eating them.....my plants are a long ways away from me....so if I go I should bring stuff rather than going there then going to get stuff and returning.....
> 
> Safe to assume caterpillars ? And if so, spray down with BT or that spinosad stuff ?
> 
> ...


Spinosad or bt wouldnt hurt. I have been seeing caterpillar damage as of yesterday. Time to whip out the Captain Jacks Deadbug Brew


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Aug 7, 2014)

FresnoFarmer said:


> Spinosad or bt wouldnt hurt. I have been seeing caterpillar damage as of yesterday. Time to whip out the Captain Jacks Deadbug Brew


hmmm, what's in that dead bug brew ?


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 8, 2014)

SpaaaceCowboy said:


> hmmm, what's in that dead bug brew ?


Spinosad ks the active ingredient. This stuff works on budworms, thrips, spidermites. Its good stuff. I ordered mine on amazon. Get the concentrate, not the ready to use crap.


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Aug 8, 2014)

FresnoFarmer said:


> Spinosad ks the active ingredient. This stuff works on budworms, thrips, spidermites. Its good stuff. I ordered mine on amazon. Get the concentrate, not the ready to use crap.


thanks for that info....I may just get that....When you said Captain Jacks Bug Brew I thought it was some homemade recipe that you concocted or something, lol.


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## bud nugbong (Aug 8, 2014)

Just ordered some captain jacks, fres makes it sound good! Last year I had nothing and was picking out caterpillars daily. I bought sevin a week ago but It seemed too poison for me. I try to stay as organic as possible.


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 8, 2014)

bud nugbong said:


> Just ordered some captain jacks, fres makes it sound good! Last year I had nothing and was picking out caterpillars daily. I bought sevin a week ago but It seemed too poison for me. I try to stay as organic as possible.


Nooooo!! Sevin dust is poison lol. That shit makes my throat raw and makes me dizzy. I only use that stuff in early veg if there is a real infestation. And wear a mask and long clothing. Captain jacks is awesome. I didnt believe it killed spidermites until I saw it work. Killed my thrips too.


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## Daub Marley (Aug 8, 2014)

veggiegardener said:


> I've been using Bt for MANY years. It is non toxic and has no effect on taste or quality. I spray Bt and then wash my girls down a day or two later. The Bt remains effective because it is a bacteria and remains on the plant in sufficient numbers to kill the worms. The moths/butterflies are usually gone by mid September, here in the valley.
> 
> Enjoy your moldy buds.


I will be using both Bt and spinosad all the way until halfway through budding. I also use seranade and prune heavily to ensure good airflow. I will not have any moldy buds, but you will have Bt on your buds. It might be perfectly fine to ingest it, but inhaling it is a different story. If they advise you to wear a mask to spray it then its probably not very safe to be inhaling it on your buds. Anything that says safe to use until harvest is assuming its a fruit or vegetable that is eaten and not smoked. Its probably not too much of a worry, but I'll err on the side of caution. Bt does smell like moldy books but it just doesn't last too long. Bt is not a silver bullet, it's just one bullet of many that can be used.


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## veggiegardener (Aug 8, 2014)

Daub Marley said:


> I will be using both Bt and spinosad all the way until halfway through budding. I also use seranade and prune heavily to ensure good airflow. I will not have any moldy buds, but you will have Bt on your buds. It might be perfectly fine to ingest it, but inhaling it is a different story. If they advise you to wear a mask to spray it then its probably not very safe to be inhaling it on your buds. Anything that says safe to use until harvest is assuming its a fruit or vegetable that is eaten and not smoked. Its probably not too much of a worry, but I'll err on the side of caution. Bt does smell like moldy books but it just doesn't last too long. Bt is not a silver bullet, it's just one bullet of many that can be used.



LOL!

Believe what you like. I've done my research. Can you say there are NO bacteria on/in your buds? Bacteria more toxic than Bt? Did you read my post? I wash my girls a couple times a week to remove foreign materials. Bug feces and the like. I foliar spray about twice a month throughout vegging. Most indoor grows accumulate a lot of things on leaf surfaces and buds. If your outdoor grow is perfectly sterile, I'd like to know how you do it. Enjoy your weed. I'll enjoy mine.


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## bud nugbong (Aug 9, 2014)

FresnoFarmer said:


> Nooooo!! Sevin dust is poison lol. That shit makes my throat raw and makes me dizzy. I only use that stuff in early veg if there is a real infestation. And wear a mask and long clothing. Captain jacks is awesome. I didnt believe it killed spidermites until I saw it work. Killed my thrips too.


yea I went in looking for that gardensafe stuff, but all they had was sevin. I didn't want to buy it, but I went all the way to the store. I might just use it as a perimeter barrier, nothing on the plants.


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## FresnoFarmer (Aug 9, 2014)

bud nugbong said:


> yea I went in looking for that gardensafe stuff, but all they had was sevin. I didn't want to buy it, but I went all the way to the store. I might just use it as a perimeter barrier, nothing on the plants.


Yeah. I use the sevi. Around plants to discourage pests. Mainly ants becuse they will farm the shit out of aphids. I also put tangle foot at the base of the plants on the main stem. It helps alot with most crawlers.


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## bud nugbong (Aug 9, 2014)

yea I got a handful of ants and aphids on my pepper plants, and a shitload on a couple sunflowers. I was actually showing my niece how they protect the aphids and got bit on the finger.


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## Daub Marley (Aug 9, 2014)

veggiegardener said:


> LOL!
> 
> Believe what you like. I've done my research. Can you say there are NO bacteria on/in your buds? Bacteria more toxic than Bt? Did you read my post? I wash my girls a couple times a week to remove foreign materials. Bug feces and the like. I foliar spray about twice a month throughout vegging. Most indoor grows accumulate a lot of things on leaf surfaces and buds. If your outdoor grow is perfectly sterile, I'd like to know how you do it. Enjoy your weed. I'll enjoy mine.


Of course my buds will have bacteria on it, and Bt is a strain of bacteria. The difference is the number of bacteria cells present. I feel that it is unhealthy to inhale in such large numbers, and while cleaning with water probably would remove it sufficiently it would also remove trichomes and terpenes from them. I've done your exact process before and moved on because I don't like to wash them, but to each their own. How to do wash them exactly? Are you just spraying them with clean water?


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## veggiegardener (Aug 9, 2014)

Exactly


Daub Marley said:


> Of course my buds will have bacteria on it, and Bt is a strain of bacteria. The difference is the number of bacteria cells present. I feel that it is unhealthy to inhale in such large numbers, and while cleaning with water probably would remove it sufficiently it would also remove trichomes and terpenes from them. I've done your exact process before and moved on because I don't like to wash them, but to each their own. How to do wash them exactly? Are you just spraying them with clean water?


Clean water from the tap. Pretty much like a medium to heavy rain. I stop spraying and washing when the buds are dense enough to hold water. Around here about the time dew begins to form in the mornings. I REALLY doubt that Bt is present in a heavier concentration than other bacteria. I don't think it adds to the total numbers of bacteria at all. I do use a product that actually feeds leaf surface bacteria which are crucial to some plant processes.(Cytozyme Foliar). I've been using that product for about 25 years. Ever look up how many bacteria live in your lungs? Yes, the products of oxidation aren't a good thing to inhale.(About 3/4 of my consumption is edibles.) Do you use foliar sprays of any kind? I do. Frequently. My normal foliar spray contains Bt, Cytozyme Foliar, fish emulsion, seaweed emulsion, Superthrive, small amounts of soluble NPK, and epsom salts. This mix has proven itself to me over three decades. On top of that, many people who have sampled my herb appreciate its lack of a 'bite'. It just doesn't force a cough, yet I'll put it up against anything else out there. This is my 47th year burning the precious herb. Several of my friends have smoked as long. They all have gone to clubs to sample their wares. I've never had one tell me my outdoor/greenhouse herb doesn't match or exceed the club's 'top shelf' for flavor and potency. Not to be pissy, but my experience predates nearly all the products and hype available today.

The oldest grow book I own is "Everything You've Always Wanted to Know About Marijuana" by C. Castle. It was published in 1973. 28 pages of mostly misinformation, but it was a start. I purchased it in Portland Oregon in 1975 in a head shop, when pot was almost legal there. I still have my first bong that I purchased there at the same time. A "Triple Bubble" ceramic bong that we still use, occasionally.

Sorry. TMI. Sometimes I can't believe how time flies.

http://www.cytozyme.com/

I started using this company's products after a friend introduced me to the head biologist at Cytozyme labs. My friend had told him about my gardening efforts. He really liked what I was doing and shipped me a selection of their products to experiment with. The results demonstrated clearly that these products WORK. Cytozyme has concentrated on agriculture around the world with proven success. They suffered in the early years of the company due to a poorly trained sales staff that were overzealous in their claims, but have since proven repeatedly that, applied in the correct amounts, they will pay for themselves many times in increased yields. 

Nowadays, there are MANY(high priced) products that mimic Cytozyme's results.


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## st0ric (Aug 14, 2014)

An old bloke I know recommends homemade White Oil watered down enough it doesn't hurt the plant.
http://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s2281115.htm


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## FLkeys1 (Aug 19, 2014)

Love the tangle foot. Off to get some BT now, found two bud worms, crazy how little caterpillar can do so much damage! DIE SUCKER!


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## bobbybuflay (Aug 24, 2014)

KushKing949 said:


> i think my buds are too far along for me to be spraying BT on em


Have you ever tried spinosad ?, montery makes a spray. This is the key i swear. Little jerks eat it and die. I didnt believe it until i tried it. Works best as a preventative but it will keep things in check if theres an infestation. Also Actinavate for PM. I guess it eats the fungus or somthin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinosad


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## mike lanza (Aug 24, 2014)

veggiegardener said:


> LOL!
> 
> Believe what you like. I've done my research. Can you say there are NO bacteria on/in your buds? Bacteria more toxic than Bt? Did you read my post? I wash my girls a couple times a week to remove foreign materials. Bug feces and the like. I foliar spray about twice a month throughout vegging. Most indoor grows accumulate a lot of things on leaf surfaces and buds. If your outdoor grow is perfectly sterile, I'd like to know how you do it. Enjoy your weed. I'll enjoy mine.


blooming now my buddy gave them to me 3 weeks ago, i put some bloom booster yesterday n water once a day this is my first grow, the flowering looks purple n pinkish when u think it will rapidly grow dont seem like its growing fast hmmmm????


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## rastadude (Aug 26, 2014)

still in veg mode here in sunny southern calif. just got my BT cant find any info on how often to spray? any thoghts from the chosen few?


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## veggiegardener (Aug 27, 2014)

_I spray about every two weeks until midway through flowering._


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## tuszynrp (Aug 28, 2014)

For sure remove your damaged buds. Last year was a horrible year for me and was my first time having issues with the pesky budbusters. I have to gorilla grow my shit tho. But what I found out is that the damaged shit I didnt remove just kept spreading throughout the plant. Thats a good reason to cut out what you can see, however, there could also be larva that you cant see and then a week or two from removing the damaged bud you begin to notice the damaging effect again from the budbusters. Wherever your location is you are about 4-5 weeks ahead of me, cheers! Plants look good and my guess on what some genetics would be is a berry bomb or something that resembles. Hard to tell with so many mixed genetics out there. Here is a gorilla grown blue cheese with no problems, so far! fingers crossed


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## st0ric (Aug 29, 2014)

After some research neem oil seems to be the best bet, it kills caterpillars and the larvae pretty much instantly at full strength and can be used up until about 2 weeks before harvest.

It should be extremely diluted although I do not know the exact measurements, I am sure Google will find the answer if you want it.


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## veggiegardener (Aug 31, 2014)

st0ric said:


> After some research neem oil seems to be the best bet, it kills caterpillars and the larvae pretty much instantly at full strength and can be used up until about 2 weeks before harvest.
> 
> It should be extremely diluted although I do not know the exact measurements, I am sure Google will find the answer if you want it.


I prefer Bt. Organic and very effective. It will kill worms weeks after application.


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## Krspies (Aug 31, 2014)

Daub Marley said:


> My plan is to use this type of fabric on the plants this year to prevent the caterpillars.
> Does anyone have experience with it?
> 
> 
> View attachment 3218113


I'm using it this year. It's called tulle and sells for .97 cents a yard. You can water through it and wash and reuse it more than one year. If you look at my profile I've posted pics of my setup.


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## Krspies (Aug 31, 2014)

If I get budworm this year I will scream. there isn't enough of me to deal with it this year. thus the tulle. I know it isn't perfect but I'm hoping if I can keep the moths and butterflies out then I reduce the caterpillars.


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## Daub Marley (Sep 1, 2014)

I ended up using a nylon screen called ultravue. The fabric I was using was very weak and ripped all the time. Expensive but very durable.


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## bobbybuflay (Sep 1, 2014)

I spray spinosad, and fingers crossed still but no signs of caters, maybe one or two babies once, but im attributing that to keeping them off.[/ATTACH]


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## xp0c (Sep 1, 2014)

I've been using BT, and Neem together emulsified with silica blast.
I've got spiders, ants, and little brown mantis patrolling my plants too. I've never seen mantis around here up until now.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 4, 2014)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


Wow...those worms are TINY...
Btw, your 2nd to last picture...AMAZING!


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## vn1 (Sep 5, 2014)

,E="CrazyChester, post: 1300361, member: 17574"]Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.

I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?

Here's some pics of my two plants progress. You can see the damage done to one of the buds and one of our crawly little pests.

If anyone has any idea of the strains I'm growing I'd sure like to know.[/QUOTE]
Hello


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## vn1 (Sep 5, 2014)

Hello, just wondered what BT is.My son grew here a few yrard ago and worms ruined 1/2 of his buds.judtE="CrazyChester, post: 1300361, member: 17574"]Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.

I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?

Here's some pics of my two plants progress. You can see the damage done to one of the buds and one of our crawly little pests.

If anyone has any idea of the strains I'm growing I'd sure like to know.[/QUOTE]
Helli


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## veggiegardener (Sep 5, 2014)

i've been using Bt for about thirty years. I've used it on weed a majority of that. The bacteria is very effective, even after washing the plants down(without a lot of pressure). Bt is usually suspended in a maple syrup mixture. The sugar washes away quickly while sufficient individual bacteria remain to kill off the worms. I'd be dead if it was toxic to humans. I've always washed my plants off once a week until a month before harvest. Birds, spiders and insects live in my garden, along with dust blown in on windy days. I believe the mildness of the smoke is worth the effort. I wait two or three days after application before rinsing the plants off.


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## PsychoticOne (Sep 6, 2014)

Any experienced aussie growers with product suggestions for me to combat this problem with? I had heaps of the little green fkers last season and I was devo! They made me nervous and along with the early wet season I ended up pulling my beautiful girl early and fked my whole season up totally. I really don't want that to happen again this season......


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## Bullethighway (Sep 6, 2014)

What is bt
ive kinda looked back but didnt see it
can someone throw it out there for me real quick


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## veggiegardener (Sep 6, 2014)

Bacillus thurengiensis. It produces severe and fatal gastric distress in all caterpillars. On tomatoes it kills Tomato Horn worms. On the cabbage family, it kills Cabbage worms. On weed it kills bud worms. I see butterflies and moths in my garden all through the growing season but rarely find more than two or three worms at harvest. Those are usually very small or dead. Safer caterpillar killer is the the brand I use, but there are other brands out there. If the contents don't list Bacillus thurengiensis, it isn't the right stuff.


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## Bullethighway (Sep 6, 2014)

Uh huh i got em bad
cut worms and catterpillars
they shit in it and just pure rots it
worst year ever for me
so thats the active ingredient 
How long before harvest can i spray it
2 weeks 1 week
Preciate your you setting me in good diection


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## veggiegardener (Sep 6, 2014)

If you have a lot of worms, spray the buds NOW. Soak them, let them dry for a day or two, then rinse them early in the day, and let the sun dry them. Done thoroughly, this should kill all the worms. If you must spray again, use a fine mist on each bud. Rinse as before. Don't wait more than two weeks between applications.Normally I'd spray the last applications 4 weeks before harvest, but you can spray later, if you don't mind washing the buds the morning before harvest.


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## Bullethighway (Sep 6, 2014)

I got ya i tried picking what i could
by hand
thanks for your info
Try and hunt some of that stuff down
And spray em for they kill em all


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## tyson53 (Sep 6, 2014)

the worse part of cata's is the shit they do all over the buds...thats mold area for sure...if your plants are not tall...should get most of the crap off the buds...or the cata's will be the least of your problem ..I had them bad last year...and threw 3 lbs of rotted bud out do the shit in them...my plants were close to 13 feet so was hard cleaning...


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## Bullethighway (Sep 6, 2014)

Yea man i know
any of ya get cob webs on ur buds
What causes that
Its kinda hard for me to read through
all the info on here
i get headachs bad after ten minutes of reading


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## Extacie (Sep 6, 2014)

So is B.T./Spinosad a very effective approach, or does it just sort of help? I've read mixed things on it, some say it's very effective, others not so much.

Would "Sevin" or a dif. chemical be a more effective approach? (I am sure this will be highly recommended against, but just trying to learn what would be the most effective)

Btw, chemicals would only be used on plants one week into bloom barely forming pistils, wasn't sure if that'd be alright or not?

Thanks all!


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## PsychoticOne (Sep 7, 2014)

Bullethighway said:


> Yea man i know
> any of ya get cob webs on ur buds
> What causes that
> Its kinda hard for me to read through
> ...


I believe that might be spider mites? I had some of them but my worst issue last season was the grubs. They shat all over my buds too and munged out on them like there was no tomorrow!


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## PsychoticOne (Sep 7, 2014)

I just purchased Yates caterpillar killer Dipel. It says that BT is one of the main components so hopefully its strong enough to do the job!


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## Extacie (Sep 7, 2014)

PsychoticOne said:


> I just purchased Yates caterpillar killer Dipel. It says that BT is one of the main components so hopefully its strong enough to do the job!


Psycho, I read on an article about tobacco budworms that dipel when used as baits hand placed in each individual flower is 90% effective where as b.t. & spinosad as sprays are only 60-70% effective so sounds like you did good to me.

What is the best option for plants in late bloom? Alternating bt and spinosad? I read that, & alternate every 5 days (I was thinking more often)

Best to drench the buds completely? Maybe even pull the buds apart to really drench them?


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## PsychoticOne (Sep 7, 2014)

Cheers Ex, thats what I like to hear!


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## Extacie (Sep 7, 2014)

PsychoticOne said:


> Cheers Ex, thats what I like to hear!


Is it like baits/pellets or a liquid? I want to order some, but wasn't sure which to order lol.

Best of luck!


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## OUTDOOR FARMER (Sep 7, 2014)

Krspies said:


> I'm using it this year. It's called tulle and sells for .97 cents a yard. You can water through it and wash and reuse it more than one year. If you look at my profile I've posted pics of my setup.


I prefer mosquito netting, about same price very durable


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## PsychoticOne (Sep 7, 2014)

Extacie said:


> Is it like baits/pellets or a liquid? I want to order some, but wasn't sure which to order lol.
> 
> Best of luck!


What I got has has 10 x 10 g sachets which each sachet is dissolved into 10 litres of water and sprayed onto foliage. Thanks Good luck to you too, especially with those pesky pests!


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## Bullethighway (Sep 7, 2014)

Found me some
high yield bacillus thuringiensis
15 %
Tried finding it made by bonide couldnt find though
Anyone use the highyield


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## MrRare (Sep 7, 2014)

Wow what a long thread.
After reading all the way through it appears the best protocol is to start spraying early and stay on a alternating weekly spray program of BT and Spinosed up until two weeks of harvest. Additional pest control can be accomplished with Neem oil or Azamax.
In the final week before harvest wash the plants with a mixture of RO water and Hydrogen Peroxide at a ratio of 4oz H2O2 to 2gallons H2O with a Hudson sprayer. 
Dry, cure and enjoy!


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## FresnoFarmer (Sep 8, 2014)

Captain Jacks Deadbug brew. FTW!


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## Extacie (Sep 8, 2014)

PsychoticOne said:


> What I got has has 10 x 10 g sachets which each sachet is dissolved into 10 litres of water and sprayed onto foliage. Thanks Good luck to you too, especially with those pesky pests!


Thanks man, fuck those little things, trying to eat up all are hard earned work!! I sprayed yesterday and found 3 today when cleaning them up.. Tortured those fuckers to get revenge for my girls then fed them to the birds lol.



MrRare said:


> Wow what a long thread.
> After reading all the way through it appears the best protocol is to start spraying early and stay on a alternating weekly spray program of BT and Spinosed up until two weeks of harvest. Additional pest control can be accomplished with Neem oil or Azamax.
> In the final week before harvest wash the plants with a mixture of RO water and Hydrogen Peroxide at a ratio of 4oz H2O2 to 2gallons H2O with a Hudson sprayer.
> Dry, cure and enjoy!


Thank you for reading through everything and summing up, I unfortunately have not had time to with work, only got through 6 or 7 pages.
I love the idea of h202/watering down before harvest!
Thans man.



FresnoFarmer said:


> Captain Jacks Deadbug brew. FTW!


Lol thanks Fres. You had pretty good luck with it? I read mixed reviews on it and spinosad in general. I'm gonna alternate that and safer caterpillar spray anyways.


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## PsychoticOne (Sep 8, 2014)

Yeah I remember last season when I got caterpillars, at first I didn't want to kill them, in the end I was stabbing them with scissors lol. Will let ya know how the Dipel works when I get to that stage.


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## Krspies (Sep 10, 2014)

OUTDOOR FARMER said:


> I prefer mosquito netting, about same price very durable


thats what I was looking for. where did you buy it? the only stuff I could find in town was super expensive.


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## OUTDOOR FARMER (Sep 10, 2014)

Krspies said:


> thats what I was looking for. where did you buy it? the only stuff I could find in town was super expensive.


a local retailer santa ana. I've seen it online, I just haven't found larger than 48" wide


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## FresnoFarmer (Sep 10, 2014)

@Extacie I would alternate them. I would stop spraying captain jacks in the last 2 weeks and the bt in the very last week.


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## Krspies (Sep 13, 2014)

OUTDOOR FARMER said:


> a local retailer santa ana. I've seen it online, I just haven't found larger than 48" wide


 that's how wide a bolt of fabric is so my tulle is 48" wide. What i am going to do next year is sew my panels together and make them 4 yards in length instead of 3 yards to give myself more height and I am going to build a pvc frame around my garden for the tulle to drape over instead of bamboo stakes this way it is reuseable, washable and easy to disassemble.


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## OUTDOOR FARMER (Sep 13, 2014)

Krspies said:


> that's how wide a bolt of fabric is so my tulle is 48" wide. What i am going to do next year is sew my panels together and make them 4 yards in length instead of 3 yards to give myself more height and I am going to build a pvc frame around my garden for the tulle to drape over instead of bamboo stakes this way it is reuseable, washable and easy to disassemble.


Here's another thought, REI a sports place. they carry double wide covers ( mosquito netting ) for cots ( camping ) $ 14.95 I believe it was.. or single wides ( not sure of price for single ) , fits over a pvc frame nice. I tried it but my garden got to large, also a place called ART SUPPLY WAREHOUSE THEY HAVE SILK SCREEN MATERIAL THAT'S WIDER ( FORGET i THINK 5-6' WIDE ) and what ever length you want, I think both can be purchased online.
CORRECTION mosquito netting was >99cents per square foot


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## Organicpoop (Sep 13, 2014)

hi just found this thread and just found Caterpillars.
I got safer caterpillar killer. Its what 1 tsp a gallon? (says 1 to 2 tsp gallon)

Im in week 5.,
can any cool experienced guru help me?

Just go spray right now on buds? Its near dark/getting dark. Outside.

thank you! 

The store lady said its safe, not oil wont turn buds brown.
help? Thanks!


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## BuzzD2Kill (Sep 13, 2014)

Ive been soaking plants with bt 1-2 per week, we have found 1 dead pillar and two noticable spots were they have been. Very little damage as if they died after eating some of the leaf, no poop in the nuggs which is awesome so far. GL a solid rotation of bt and azamax has done me well, think they sprayed avid once. Stay on top of the sprays, its a bitch sometimes but the end is always better. And yes spray the bt directly on the nuggs, soakem good get it in there, other bugs usually are located on the underside of leaves.


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## BuzzD2Kill (Sep 13, 2014)

OUTDOOR FARMER said:


> Here's another thought, REI a sports place. they carry double wide covers ( mosquito netting ) for cots ( camping ) $ 14.95 I believe it was.. or single wides ( not sure of price for single ) , fits over a pvc frame nice. I tried it but my garden got to large, also a place called ART SUPPLY WAREHOUSE THEY HAVE SILK SCREEN MATERIAL THAT'S WIDER ( FORGET i THINK 5-6' WIDE ) and what ever length you want, I think both can be purchased online.
> CORRECTION mosquito netting was >99cents per square foot



If you use netting, still use BT. Only takes one strong healthy worm to shit throughout a good 5 footer. Better to be safe then sorry. remember those videos hahahaha


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## Krspies (Sep 14, 2014)

OUTDOOR FARMER said:


> Here's another thought, REI a sports place. they carry double wide covers ( mosquito netting ) for cots ( camping ) $ 14.95 I believe it was.. or single wides ( not sure of price for single ) , fits over a pvc frame nice. I tried it but my garden got to large, also a place called ART SUPPLY WAREHOUSE THEY HAVE SILK SCREEN MATERIAL THAT'S WIDER ( FORGET i THINK 5-6' WIDE ) and what ever length you want, I think both can be purchased online.
> CORRECTION mosquito netting was >99cents per square foot


 Nice! I searched all winter and spring locally to find something like that because I read on another thread mosquito netting at camping stores were cheap and easy. Well, we have a big 5 and they don't carry squat and what they do carry is unreasonably priced. I also read that if you can find the kind of mosquito netting that's made for traveling to far away places it drapes over a frame and is supposedly fairly cheap. i couldn't find those anywhere nearby. We don't have an REI but I may be able to order from them online. Thanks for the heads up. So far I haven't seen any signs of caterpillars yet so I think my tulle is working but the season ain't over yet lol


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## HippieYippie (Sep 14, 2014)

I heard these come from overwintering in the ground... I have them, and just about heartbroken... attacked the tops... I am a real newbie and do not know all the terms... cutting off the infected just recently, 3-4 weeks grown flower buds. Buying some BT, maybe save some of the garden....


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## veggiegardener (Sep 16, 2014)

HippieYippie said:


> I heard these come from overwintering in the ground... I have them, and just about heartbroken... attacked the tops... I am a real newbie and do not know all the terms... cutting off the infected just recently, 3-4 weeks grown flower buds. Buying some BT, maybe save some of the garden....


Not so. The worms come from eggs deposited on the bud leaves(usually). Some are laid in groups, but in my area most a laid one to a bud. Watch for small butterflies and moths around your plants. If you see them, they are laying eggs. Spray regularly and thoroughly.


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## Krspies (Sep 16, 2014)

Yea and if there are oleander bushes anywhere near you then nuke the hell put of them because you are in for an invasion!! Butterflies and cabbage moths freaking love oleander bushes!


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## Krspies (Sep 17, 2014)

Shit! Just pulled 3 worms off my frostiest plant. Fuck! I have to go to work so no time to deal with it and I'm broke and I bet there's no bt in town


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## Organicpoop (Sep 19, 2014)

so whats the verdict? I'm 3+ weeks before harvest.
The store lady says Safer BT is fine to use on buds and the rain will wash out any residue and no flavor at all.

The store lady is usually 100% correct on everything every time on everything.

Spray half dose?
will it effect flavor at all?


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## Krspies (Sep 19, 2014)

I just bought some safer. I spent 4 hours driving around trying to find some. I finally found a new hydro shop and got some. Tomorrow the fuckers die


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## FresnoFarmer (Sep 20, 2014)

I used spinosad full strength 2 weeks before harvest with no flavor effects. Smooth burning buds too with no cure.


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## veggiegardener (Sep 21, 2014)

Organicpoop said:


> so whats the verdict? I'm 3+ weeks before harvest.
> The store lady says Safer BT is fine to use on buds and the rain will wash out any residue and no flavor at all.
> 
> The store lady is usually 100% correct on everything every time on everything.
> ...


The store lady was completely right.


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## Extacie (Sep 22, 2014)

FresnoFarmer said:


> @Extacie I would alternate them. I would stop spraying captain jacks in the last 2 weeks and the bt in the very last week.


Thanks brotha, it's much appreciated!


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## mamie (Sep 24, 2014)

I am about 2 weeks from harvesting my 1st lady!...this morning I found the bottom fan leaves were discolored and had holes in them. I also noticed that the stem of the leaves had some white fuzzy mold-looking stuff?? There was a very small green worm on the bottom of the fan leaf I removed and I smashed it. I pulled the affected leaves off and thoroughly inspected my colas and can't seen anything wrong with the rest of the plant. My husband is growing a container garden of peppers, we caught a bird trashing his prize specimen and witnessed the bird pulling big green worms off. We harvested all of the peppers and found 2 more worms...big fat ones. Could this lonely worm have found his way to my plant? I don't do anything to this plant...I allow nature to do it's thing. So far so good...how concerned should I be?


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## oregonboy (Sep 25, 2014)

outdoor grower here, very very close to harvest.....biggest cola turning brown....had to cut it.......loaded with "corn burrower" in the stem....DAMN!!!!......about 4 days from harvest and there is nothing I can do at this point........probably have more somewhere,....if anything else starts browning, it is Chop Chop time for everybody....I realized that if shit goes downhill late into flowering,...the 99% answer is to harvest....the plants are late into flowering , most leaves have fallen off,the cold has turned them purple,....always amazes me how when I have the biggest most beautiful buds, the plant itself is looking its worst.My Big , bushy vibrant vegie phase plants are long gone, now they are wilty , scraggly,sticks down below, with massive, leaning flowers all over the tops. I love this time of year when harvest time could be any minute......


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## Krspies (Sep 25, 2014)

Look at this asshole on the outside of my netting. and this AFTER spraying safer


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## veggiegardener (Sep 25, 2014)

f he gets a bite, he'll die. It is more fun to stomp them.


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## HippieYippie (Sep 25, 2014)

veggiegardener said:


> Not so. The worms come from eggs deposited on the bud leaves(usually). Some are laid in groups, but in my area most a laid one to a bud. Watch for small butterflies and moths around your plants. If you see them, they are laying eggs. Spray regularly and thoroughly.


Thanks..... sprayed the BT- "Safer" and will keep an eye out....


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## rastadude (Sep 30, 2014)

"Enjoy your moldy buds." lmfao

those of you who think you know everything are entertaining those of us who do!

play nice girls, you're both pretty


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## Krspies (Oct 2, 2014)

Wait...who has moldy buds? My buds aren't moldy. Why is someone gonna have moldy buds?


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## oregonboy (Oct 6, 2014)

day 3 of my drying process and the budworms are falling out onto the floor..........niiiiice....also magnified and every single drying bud is coated in mites............ho hum.......might try to freeze them for half an hour.....any advice??...put buds in a jar and freeze is all I can think of, CO2 is another option, but no thanks........switching to indoor , after 3 years outdoors the pests and hail are winning the battle....I live next to massive agriculture farms , and their "tiny" infestations are biblical in proportion to my little plants.


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## ULEN (Oct 6, 2014)

Day 56 and she comes down due to the elements. She looks done but I would have liked for her to go 80 days.


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## RIPE (Oct 11, 2014)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


I see the worm in one picture but don't see any in the other pictures. Where is the damage to the buds. I've got a bud on one of my plants and it is half black. I know something has been messing with it. You've got a few buds to spare. Nice pics.


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## Cons7 (Oct 18, 2014)

Anyone ever try these guys? https://insects.tamu.edu/students/undergrad/ento402/Cotton_files/Cotton_parasites.html They look like pure awesomeness and they aren't that expensive from what I've seen. There are several posts on this site about them, didn't see this post come up when I searched their name though.


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## FresnoFarmer (Oct 19, 2014)

Captain jacks dead bug brew. Not 1 budworm or budworm damageed bud found so far. I have harvested around 20 small plants so far. I saw moths and butterflies all year in the greenhouses and the outdoor plot. Found 0 budworms!! Still finding moths stuck to buds too!! No worms tho......yet.


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## veggiegardener (Oct 21, 2014)

oregonboy said:


> day 3 of my drying process and the budworms are falling out onto the floor..........niiiiice....also magnified and every single drying bud is coated in mites............ho hum.......might try to freeze them for half an hour.....any advice??...put buds in a jar and freeze is all I can think of, CO2 is another option, but no thanks........switching to indoor , after 3 years outdoors the pests and hail are winning the battle....I live next to massive agriculture farms , and their "tiny" infestations are biblical in proportion to my little plants.


I've had large spider mite infestations a few times. Usually late in budding. Very little real damage. I've found that spider mites will always climb up, gathering at the tip of the stem if the buds are pointed down. Once the buds begin to dry, the mites can't feed off them and wander away to die. I haven't seen a web this year. I have nine plants hanging with no visible mites on the twine the buds are hanging on.


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## ILikeKindBud (Nov 1, 2014)

Here in Hawaii the bud worms are bad all year long it seems. I spray with Bt once a week. I have read that it breaks down in the air 3-5 days after applying. I Usually spray up till about a week before harvest. As soon as a worm eats some of the sprayed leaf he stops eating. Dies in 3-5 days and spreads more Bt when he does. I also give my plants a good shake a couple times a day. You see the small white moths that lay the eggs come fluttering off the plant. These moths need some time to burrow into the plant and lay eggs, so by keeping them moving they don't have as good of a chance. Thats my 2 cents!


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## The303Yeti (Nov 10, 2014)

I have always used beneficial bacteria and have never had bud worms. I'm wondering if maybe it's the climate though. What type of climates are you guys in?


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## The303Yeti (Nov 10, 2014)

ILikeKindBud said:


> Here in Hawaii the bud worms are bad all year long it seems. I spray with Bt once a week. I have read that it breaks down in the air 3-5 days after applying. I Usually spray up till about a week before harvest. As soon as a worm eats some of the sprayed leaf he stops eating. Dies in 3-5 days and spreads more Bt when he does. I also give my plants a good shake a couple times a day. You see the small white moths that lay the eggs come fluttering off the plant. These moths need some time to burrow into the plant and lay eggs, so by keeping them moving they don't have as good of a chance. Thats my 2 cents!


Are these worms tropical? I live in the high rockies and never have had a problem. We always have late frost though.


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## ILikeKindBud (Nov 11, 2014)

They are all over the place but I believe the cold winters help keep them down. When I was farming in Colorado they were a bigger nuisance on tomatoes and corn. I've been told some species love marijuana more then others and will go for it first. If you've never had a problem, I wouldn't worry to much!


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## thepenofareadywriter (Dec 26, 2014)

The303Yeti said:


> Are these worms tropical? I live in the high rockies and never have had a problem. We always have late frost though.


if you have those white butterflies, you will have the worms.... put screens around your plants


CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


 you can wash your weed I have done it before...it is called water curing or some shit, any way I soaked mine for a few hours all the shit comes out with the water...it wont affect the potency of your weed it just turns really dark...it is not bag pretty, and the taste is very mellow and it is extra work


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## TheGreenStash (Jan 28, 2015)

I live In san Diego and have been growing medicinally outdoors for the past 5 season and only these last 2 season did I use BT to prevent and deter caterpillar infestations. I've always tried to avoid any pesticides or anything that's not organic on my fruits as I am a strong believer in natural methods being the key to healthy medicine. Caterpillars can be the equivalent to a plague of locusts depending on how you deal with them. Even in a green house with a UV-C / HEPA Air Purifier unit installed those little bastards some how manage to finagle there way in in the mid weeks of flowering and all it takes one or 2 of those white moths, yellow moths, to lay hundred's of hair like egg's just waiting to burrow into the leaves and later erupt havoc unto your precious fruits of labor. With the eggs in place the parasitic larvae becomes dependent on your plant and literally grows into full adult stage in less than 3 weeks, by that time the little fuckers have vapiristicly sucked the vital essence that was needed develop the oil oozing thrichomes that you diligently worked for and sought after, yet is destroyed if one is not prepared. Anticipating an attack on a species that matures from larva to mature breeding pupa in such a short time can be hard to foresee. The life line and nature of these monstrosities that eat constantly, leaving trails of little black crap balls inside of your once gorgeous kola's that seemingly spontaneously combust, not on fire but into black mold, as there shit contains the foundation for even more problems.... Literally shitting all over your hard work, and these endomorph's life cycles from egg to cocoon to breeding adult only takes less than a month. So If your In Southern California, and you plan on going outdoor with your fruits, I would totally recommend BT as a preventative and a counter measure, as it is a safe and bio-degradable/ biological warfare against these pesky little guys. Use Caution though, I've noticed that when spraying with bt that it will increase your chances of developing PM: powder Mildew if you spray at night, so you have to be careful what time of day your spraying as to prevent stagnant water deposits that can develop unwanted fungal culture and spread nasty spores throughout your garden. I tend to spray early as possible, 1-3 times a week so that the moisture will evaporate, as to prevent pm. Hope this was helpful, #dabLyfe. #FuckCattipilars


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## TwistItUp (Jan 31, 2015)

I might have been wrong or confused about the bit where I said that mulch helps a plant not transpire so much of its liquids. I don't even remember saying that, and don't recall where I would have read such a thing. But anyway if I was wrong about that or anything else I suggested to this guy, that is all beside what I'm saying in this post. Here is a screen shot from youtube when I messaged someone who is basically claiming to be a pro who makes grow videos. I asked him how he deals with pests and if he could do a video covering this. I thought I made it pretty clear to him that I have problems with my outdoor with caterpillars specifically. Just yesterday I realize the guy actually wrote me back. I didn't even know they guy replied, and I had forgotten about messaging him. 
When I did read his reply I was a bit taken back by what he had to say. The guy claims that "nature takes care of bugs outdoors.", then he goes on to say something to the effect of "never" having a bug problem outdoors in over two decades, that sometimes maybe a caterpillar would like to mulch a bit, then he declares that when growing outdoors that plants will overgrow the damage from the caterpillars. I was left wondering if maybe this guy is all Hollywood, smoke and mirrors, if he actually does grow outdoor or just wants to appear that way. The rest of us seem to have problems with these worms. Why does this other guy not have any bug problems. Now I really want to know his secret to warding off pests. Over two decades growing outdoor and never a bug problem. ;D What is the trick with that.


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## TwistItUp (Jan 31, 2015)

Hmmmm, whats that device you are using at 00:3 in the intro to every video Mr. Brown dirt warrior ;D
Why would a guy who has never had a bug problem in over two decades be using a atomizer bug sprayer?
I must be confused, or he is full of shit. I'm still trying to figure this out.

https://www.youtube.com/user/brwndirtwarrior





Screen shot from his intro to every video.


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## TwistItUp (Feb 14, 2015)

http://www.gardeninsects.com/prayingMantis.asp
http://www.planetnatural.com/product/praying-mantis-egg-cases/

Om nom nom nom...


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## nuggs (Apr 1, 2015)

potroast said:


> For budworms, you should spray your plants every 3 weeks with BT, a beneficial bacteria, throughout their veg state, and the first half of flowering. That will keep the worms from growing on your plants. And that way, you don't have to spray your ripening buds.
> 
> BT will affect the taste of your bud if used too late in the season. It's just fine to wash your plants before harvest. Even my indoor plants are sometimes taken outside on harvest day and sprayed down well with a fine spray, and then dried for a couple of hours and harvested.
> 
> HTH


bullshit it don't stop them.


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## CA MTN MAN (Apr 2, 2015)

That old dude is freaking yoked


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## CA MTN MAN (Apr 2, 2015)

nuggs said:


> bullshit it don't stop them.


Really??? Shit that's scary I was hoping it would help this year... What do you use for worms ?


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## TWS (Apr 2, 2015)

Not sure why nuggs says that ? it does help or manage the issue. Try it with out. It doesn't stop all damage but it sure as hell controls it. in fact I lose less than an oz a season.


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## nuggs (Apr 2, 2015)

It slows them down but used every 3 weeks isn't enough. he said to stop spraying bt half way through flower. half way through flower for me is when they get to distroying mine. when they start getting sticky is when they are the worst. I thought you were using spinasad TWS .? Which didn't seem to help me so much either. I'm trying the bioworks for worm control this year.


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## TWS (Apr 2, 2015)

I use both and try to spray once a week starting at pre flower and spray up to a week before harvest.


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## nuggs (Apr 2, 2015)

http://www.everwoodfarm.com/Pest_Insect_Cross_Listing/Help_with_Russet_Cyclamen_and_Broad_Mites

In the left column read about control of butterfly and moth. the B B is the ticket to disrupt their life cycle.


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## nuggs (Apr 2, 2015)

http://www.everwoodfarm.com/Organic_Pest_Control/Beneficial_Nematodes/Steinernema_carpocapsae/CAPSANEM_50_million?cPath=284_287&


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## GreenerBoB1 (Apr 12, 2015)

I never had this problem until all the bats were gone now the only thing I have is my bug zapper to kill the moths and all are not
attracted to it so I'm out there from dusk to two hours after dark swatting them with my electric fly swatterthis is the only way I keep down the numbers without pesticide


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## nuggs (Apr 12, 2015)

Bats are good .I put up a box to attract them to my area but them haven't taken up housing yet. wondering what to use to attract them.


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## TWS (Apr 18, 2015)

batgirl


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## CA MTN MAN (Apr 20, 2015)

I bought a bag of wild bird feed and spread it all over my property... Before I got the seed I had tons of worms hanging around my property... After the bird feed I have attracted dozens of different types of birds and I haven't seen a single worm since


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## GrowTheBest (May 25, 2015)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


 Sorry for a late reply but you should've just groomed it daily to make sure pest are away. Every now and then I get a spider or two on my plant [The Damn Spider will bend a Leaf as Shelter] and I just simply squash the pest and cut the peace of leaf off [only the effected area]
I dont get those type of pest but poisonous spiders are all to commopn where I live [South of Texas] so yeah, I preffer you not to spray pesticides due to the fact you plant might absorb some and You or your clents will be smoking harsh chemicals, However, Im not sure about any spray effecting the plant as long as the chemicals dont make their way to the roots.


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## Krspies (May 25, 2015)

I will be netting again this year using BT and I might try the birdseed idea that sounds like a really good idea. Praying mantises ladybugs frogs - anything that will help naturally keep damn cabbage moths and worms off my plants is a good idea to me but overall I've had the most success with netting my grow Area. A couple of cabbage moths made their way inside my netting last year and so I had a handful of worms, literally five or six. this year I recognize the area of weakness that let in the cabbage moths and I will correct that vulnerability and no moths will make it in


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## smoker61904 (Jun 5, 2015)

These green spiders feed on any worm or harmful bugs .I'm doing Outdoor for 4 years now .roots organic veg and bloom 707 soil


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## Organicpoop (Jun 6, 2015)

wow, where to get green spiders>
I purchased some praying mastitis sacks this week and bird feeders.


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## Humanrob (Jun 9, 2015)

Organicpoop said:


> wow, where to get green spiders>
> I purchased some praying mastitis sacks this week and bird feeders.


Won't the birds eat the (young) Praying Mantis? I was thinking about adding bird seed, but I've already got the PM eggs hanging from the plants, which got me thinking...


Also, I went to two different local Hydro stores and asked for "BT" and neither knew what I was talking about. Sorry for the newbie question, but what does BT stand for?


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## Organicpoop (Jun 10, 2015)

* 
[URL='http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/insect/05556.html']Bacillus thuringiensis, it works really really well. I used up to the late days with no discoloration. 
one has about double the amounts then safer, I forget what one is best. I ignored them one year and had to play catch up. this year im going full crazy.[/URL]*


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## Humanrob (Jun 10, 2015)

Organicpoop said:


> *
> Bacillus thuringiensis, it works really really well. I used up to the late days with no discoloration.
> one has about double the amounts then safer, I forget what one is best. I ignored them one year and had to play catch up. this year im going full crazy.*


Thank you!


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## NorthernCalifornia (Jun 29, 2015)

Neem oil in spray bottle with a dab of dawn soap to dilute oil kept the worms away. All natural won't harm buds


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## Smoke_Sensi (Jul 20, 2015)

Those catapillers are bad news. I like how you kept the colo buds from peeking out at the top smart move. Unique style


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## CBDFarm (Aug 25, 2015)

Neem oil and BT are the way to go for outdoor IMO. I do outdoor hydro. Check out my intro thread, im new here  https://www.rollitup.org/t/hello-i-am-cbdfarm.881754/#post-11854328


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## oragrow (Aug 27, 2015)

Humanrob said:


> Won't the birds eat the (young) Praying Mantis? I was thinking about adding bird seed, but I've already got the PM eggs hanging from the plants, which got me thinking...
> 
> 
> Also, I went to two different local Hydro stores and asked for "BT" and neither knew what I was talking about. Sorry for the newbie question, but what does BT stand for?


I have noticed that people are using Spinosad, which is a bacteria.
http://www.livingwithbugs.com/spinosad.html
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:Spinosad
going to pickup some today to try.
But have BT as a backup spray


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## novanov (Aug 29, 2015)

Had this problem but didn't go the bt route, instead i got benificials that i should have introduced during late vegg.
Green lacewings larve
eat young caterpillars up to about a half inch in size and also hunt for moth and butterfly eggs they are non flight insects for 2-3 weeks so that's all their doing in the meantime is hunting.
And i also got
Parasitic Wasps, 
predatory in all stages of life, its larvae eats worms from the inside out, when the larve gets wings they inspect every cola and inch of the plant being a very small wasp, any way these wasps Use their butts as a shank almost when they see prey and inject their eggs into the body of any worm, off guard leaf hopper etc. 

I applied these 3 days ago to clean my plants up before harvest, idk about the worms yet but what i assumed to be white fly are far less active and im seeing far less leaf hoppers gonna let theses good bugs and my plants finish maturing then do part 1 of my harvest.


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## marcospartida (Sep 1, 2015)

bterz said:


> wtf I thought this was all stuff up north.
> 
> If your plants are in pots does this reduce the chance of getting them....
> 
> Damn im scared now!!


Nope moths and butterflies fly and lay eggs on tops


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## marcospartida (Sep 6, 2015)

bterz said:


> wtf I thought this was all stuff up north.
> 
> If your plants are in pots does this reduce the chance of getting them....
> 
> Damn im scared now!!


No there dropped off by moths and butterflies ..not from the ground


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## ShabbaDanks (Sep 10, 2015)

Was thinking about doing a run outdoors next year but F that! It's just too much to deal with. Only bug problem I ever had was fungus nats and a little peroxide and some sticky traps took care of that in no time.


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## cowtown (Sep 10, 2015)

72 pages of replies. Can anyone point me to a page with a picture of what they look like? Just want to check some plants to be safe. Thanks.


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## ShabbaDanks (Sep 10, 2015)

cowtown said:


> 72 pages of replies. Can anyone point me to a page with a picture of what they look like? Just want to check some plants to be safe. Thanks.


Dude... They look like off yellow / light orangish caterpillars... you'll see them!


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## ShabbaDanks (Sep 10, 2015)

cowtown said:


> 72 pages of replies. Can anyone point me to a page with a picture of what they look like? Just want to check some plants to be safe. Thanks.


look at krspies post on page 70... they are big as hell on his net


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## cowtown (Sep 10, 2015)

ShabbaDanks said:


> look at krspies post on page 70... they are big as hell on his net


Thanks. Nothing like that here, I was thinking of some kind of tiny caterpillar not a big ass one that easy to see. Sorry first timer here.


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## ResinDabz (Sep 10, 2015)

ShabbaDanks said:


> Was thinking about doing a run outdoors next year but F that! It's just too much to deal with. Only bug problem I ever had was fungus nats and a little peroxide and some sticky traps took care of that in no time.


Don't let the moths deter u can put up an easy net around your plants, that's what I'm doing next year..


cowtown said:


> Thanks. Nothing like that here, I was thinking of some kind of tiny caterpillar not a big ass one that easy to see. Sorry first timer here.


They start off pretty small and eat the bud from inside out after they hacth so it's good to spray early on the buds and keep reapplying you will see burnt looking buds that will crumble as a sign of them


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## rexpop (Sep 12, 2015)

ResinDabz said:


> Don't let the moths deter u can put up an easy net around your plants, that's what I'm doing next year..
> 
> They start off pretty small and eat the bud from inside out after they hacth so it's good to spray early on the buds and keep reapplying you will see burnt looking buds that will crumble as a sign of them



So, this is pretty much exactly what's happening to me right now re: burnt looking buds that will crumble. I've lost about 5 tops already off of a couple of plants- is it too late to apply this BT? Do I spray the actual buds? They're kinda crystally, and i feel like getting them wet is bad. I've been in flower for 4 weeks. Sorry, I'm new to this.

Thanks..


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## ResinDabz (Sep 12, 2015)

rexpop said:


> So, this is pretty much exactly what's happening to me right now re: burnt looking buds that will crumble. I've lost about 5 tops already off of a couple of plants- is it too late to apply this BT? Do I spray the actual buds? They're kinda crystally, and i feel like getting them wet is bad. I've been in flower for 4 weeks. Sorry, I'm new to this.
> 
> Thanks..


I would spray BT or spinosad like monterey garden insect spray immediately all over the plant and reapply in like 5 days or sooner. If u find worms sfter they shouldent be moving much. And it's ok for your buds to get wet, mold shouldent be an issue and your trichs will be fine.


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## rexpop (Sep 12, 2015)

ResinDabz said:


> I would spray BT or spinosad like monterey garden insect spray immediately all over the plant and reapply in like 5 days or sooner. If u find worms sfter they shouldent be moving much. And it's ok for your buds to get wet, mold shouldent be an issue and your trichs will be fine.


Thanks again sir. I'm going to go with BT then and do that tomorrow.


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## ResinDabz (Sep 12, 2015)

rexpop said:


> Thanks again sir. I'm going to go with BT then and do that tomorrow.


just don't spray during the day wait till early morning or in the evenings don't want to fry them gl!


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## TWS (Sep 12, 2015)




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## cowtown (Sep 12, 2015)

TWS said:


>


LOL. Pompous plant eating basterd.


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## ResinDabz (Sep 13, 2015)

cowtown said:


> 72 pages of replies. Can anyone point me to a page with a picture of what they look like? Just want to check some plants to be safe. Thanks.


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## JJ43 (Sep 14, 2015)

My four outdoor plants are absolutely infested with these little green bastards.
I think there is another three weeks until harvest, but these won't make it that long due to rot.
Can I pull them now and still use them for bubble hash (after trimming rotten parts)?


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## Lara vanhousen (Sep 16, 2015)

cant get to the store anyone use azamax this late? Ive heard of a week before harvest... does it help with caterpillars? I have neem and bt but both are over a year old and have been sitting in the backyard.... im assuming theyre exprired by now...


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## marcospartida (Sep 19, 2015)

Dont let some bugs stop you.. Grow it ..


ShabbaDanks said:


> Was thinking about doing a run outdoors next year but F that! It's just too much to deal with. Only bug problem I ever had was fungus nats and a little peroxide and some sticky traps took care of that in no time.


----------



## marcospartida (Sep 19, 2015)

Lara vanhousen said:


> cant get to the store anyone use azamax this late? Ive heard of a week before harvest... does it help with caterpillars? I have neem and bt but both are over a year old and have been sitting in the backyard.... im assuming theyre exprired by now...


Safer catillerpiller killer w
orks.. its good to uze on harvest week..no azamax wont help for that..


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## marcospartida (Sep 19, 2015)

HippieYippie said:


> I heard these come from overwintering in the ground... I have them, and just about heartbroken... attacked the tops... I am a real newbie and do not know all the terms... cutting off the infected just recently, 3-4 weeks grown flower buds. Buying some BT, maybe save some of the garden....


No butterflys and moths fly lay eggs and then they turn into catipillers ..


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## tyson53 (Sep 19, 2015)

We have problems here with the tobacco bud worms..and some others ...I use Bt but i also have a bug light set up to go on at dusk..most moths lay at night..I can hear the zapper working..i was told to hang yellow sticky traps near plants as they will go to it..I did and i see moths stuck to it in the morning when checking plants...so it works...worms are a big cause of bud rot,..they shit inside the buds and it rots there causeing the gray mold to develope...bug netting is great but cant always use it when plants are to tall or wide..just does not cover them...Neem or Spinosad after 5-6 weeks will make your buds taste bad..have not seen that yet with Bt....i use a plant wash 3 days before harvest that works very good..its coconut water..aloe and a very little dr bronners ..the day before or day of.i use my atomizer of just plain water first thing in the morn till run off..then use a leaf blower to blow them off..let dry and cut...


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## rexpop (Sep 19, 2015)

rexpop said:


> So, this is pretty much exactly what's happening to me right now re: burnt looking buds that will crumble. I've lost about 5 tops already off of a couple of plants- is it too late to apply this BT? Do I spray the actual buds? They're kinda crystally, and i feel like getting them wet is bad. I've been in flower for 4 weeks. Sorry, I'm new to this.
> 
> Thanks..





ResinDabz said:


> I would spray BT or spinosad like monterey garden insect spray immediately all over the plant and reapply in like 5 days or sooner. If u find worms sfter they shouldent be moving much. And it's ok for your buds to get wet, mold shouldent be an issue and your trichs will be fine.





rexpop said:


> Thanks again sir. I'm going to go with BT then and do that tomorrow.


Update for you guys! I did what you suggested, picked up some monterey garden BT, and sprayed the flowers. In the next few days I noticed 2 more cases of crumbly brown tops and took them off, resprayed. Since then I have only seen 1 more case, so it looks pretty damn controlled to me. I watered down what was left of the bottle and I've sprayed once- plan on spraying with the diluted version every couple of days for a week or two and by then it might be harvest time. Thanks so much for your help!

edit: also, i found a bunch of dead caterpillars and noticed one alive after i pulled a piece of brown flower off- things are freaking nasty.


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## bang bang (Sep 22, 2015)

Cheers to all

One question , are my outdoor mountain plants ready to harvest  ? pictures uploaded where that shows the whole plant where done on 22.sep/15 . the bud picture are older , was done 8 days ago.they where planted at the end of May transported outside in June dont remb. the day .2 different plants seeds bag .europe. thank you in advance for any reply .


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## ResinDabz (Sep 22, 2015)

bang bang said:


> Cheers to all
> 
> One question , are my outdoor mountain plants ready to harvest View attachment 3505515 ? pictures uploaded where that shows the whole plant where done on 22.sep/15 . the bud picture are older , was done 8 days ago.they where planted at the end of May transported outside in June dont remb. the day .2 different plants seeds bag .europe. thank you in advance for any reply .


Your in the wrong section pal, but I'd say let it keep going gl!


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## TokeySmurf (Sep 28, 2015)

I use 5% Sevin Dust from sprout and don't get pests anymore. Once you have bud worms, especially borers, you'll be picking them off beyond harvest. At harvest I just rinse the dust off and slap fans on my girls for about 12 hours to prevent molding.


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## TokeySmurf (Sep 28, 2015)

bang bang said:


> Cheers to all
> 
> One question , are my outdoor mountain plants ready to harvest View attachment 3505515 ? pictures uploaded where that shows the whole plant where done on 22.sep/15 . the bud picture are older , was done 8 days ago.they where planted at the end of May transported outside in June dont remb. the day .2 different plants seeds bag .europe. thank you in advance for any reply .


Harvest when the majority of the trichomes are clouldy/milky looking. Don't jump the gun and start pulling plants because you see a couple of amber trichomes.


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## FresnoFarmer (Sep 30, 2015)

Sevin dust in flowering? No bueno.


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## budlover13 (Sep 30, 2015)

Damn bud worms.


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## hlpdsk (Oct 1, 2015)

Any clues on what these little dots are? Seem like eggs, they pop between your fingernails and are filled with goo.


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## TokeySmurf (Oct 1, 2015)

FresnoFarmer said:


> Sevin dust in flowering? No bueno.


It washes right off with no ill effects at harvest/when it rains. It doesn't hurt a crop at all. I've had no pests and some great results using Sevin Dust.


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## ResinDabz (Oct 2, 2015)

hlpdsk said:


> Any clues on what these little dots are? Seem like eggs, they pop between your fingernails and are filled with goo.


Yup those sure are the moth eggs


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## hlpdsk (Oct 5, 2015)

Thanks for the confirmation. Picked up some BT, wish it wasn't so late in the game but i'd rather deal with trying to rinse off this stuff than get killed by caterpillars. Hopefully I am still a couple of weeks out...


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## budlover13 (Oct 6, 2015)

hlpdsk said:


> Thanks for the confirmation. Picked up some BT, wish it wasn't so late in the game but i'd rather deal with trying to rinse off this stuff than get killed by caterpillars. Hopefully I am still a couple of weeks out...


Same boat here. Sprayed last week. Stopped those fuckers quick! Now to find a good plant wash....


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## ResinDabz (Oct 6, 2015)

budlover13 said:


> Same boat here. Sprayed last week. Stopped those fuckers quick! Now to find a good plant wash....


If anyone said to me after on a first grow to name 1 thing that ud never expect growing out doors, is 1. BUD WORMS spray them dead


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## leoshitz (Oct 7, 2015)

I used Neem oil(from Home Depot not cold pressed) and BT with no success. Hydro store told me about AzaPlus and it has worked like a charm.


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## budlover13 (Oct 7, 2015)

I applied Safer BT once. Picked worms for about 4 days before spraying 30 Oz of solution to 3 plants. 10 Oz per plant +/-. No sign of worms whatsoever now.


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## thompeace (Oct 13, 2015)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


wow the big one big heads beautiful


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## TWS (Nov 6, 2015)




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## Oregon Gardener (Nov 23, 2015)

KushKing949 said:


> i hate them bastards i have to go out into my garden every morning with latex gloves and tweasers and pick the fuckers outta my sweet smelling buds and clean up the mess they made if that means chopping and throwing away buds i also find tons of eggs as well and fuck its just so many..good thing i got alot of colas that arent infested yet im not afraid to dig into my sticky buds to make sure they are clean this is my first grow and i will be prepared for em next yr.


I know I posted this somewhere else, but here it goes again. Those fuckers terrorized us in Southern Oregon, I experimented and that I want on my property will kill them. I wound up hiring a guy with a good eye to pick them off by hand! However we use sunflowers for privacy. One day I was in the garden with my Sure Shot and saw this. Sorry about my photography skills. I stopped smashing wasp's nests and became,"one" with the wasp.


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## ResinDabz (Nov 23, 2015)

Oregon Gardener said:


> I know I posted this somewhere else, but here it goes again. Those fuckers terrorized us in Southern Oregon, I experimented and that I want on my property will kill them. I wound up hiring a guy with a good eye to pick them off by hand! However we use sunflowers for privacy. One day I was in the garden with my Sure Shot and saw this. Sorry about my photography skills. I stopped smashing wasp's nests and became,"one" with the wasp.


Bt spray right as you see the buds forming little spike hair clusters and keep spraying for a couple weeks 2 times a week then once again every once in awhile to be sure. Tweezer method is really disruptive to the buds and your never going to get them all and they keep planting new eggs each day it's a real battle that way


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## Kcbscrogger (Dec 10, 2015)

It all starts with those damn little butterflies that you see flying around your garden, the only way to stop them is to put plants in greenhouse or under netting.


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## Greenacorn (Dec 18, 2015)

Rumor has it....BT and sphenoid spray every week up till 2 weeks before harvest is the way to go. No toxics, just naturally occurring products keeps these bad boys away.


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## gillman20 (Jan 12, 2016)

potroast said:


> For budworms, you should spray your plants every 3 weeks with BT, a beneficial bacteria, throughout their veg state, and the first half of flowering. That will keep the worms from growing on your plants. And that way, you don't have to spray your ripening buds.
> 
> BT will affect the taste of your bud if used too late in the season. It's just fine to wash your plants before harvest. Even my indoor plants are sometimes taken outside on harvest day and sprayed down well with a fine spray, and then dried for a couple of hours and harvested.
> 
> HTH


Wash plant before harvest? Sounds dangerous.


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## Oregon Gardener (Jan 12, 2016)

ResinDabz said:


> Bt spray right as you see the buds forming little spike hair clusters and keep spraying for a couple weeks 2 times a week then once again every once in awhile to be sure. Tweezer method is really disruptive to the buds and your never going to get them all and they keep planting new eggs each day it's a real battle that way


We dont spray anything on our buds. We are heavily regulated and tested here. Anyway, my outdoor bud gets ground up for concentrates.. I keep some of the primo tops for myself but the rest..... The leaves I use in my artwork.


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## MileHighMasterGrower (Jan 15, 2016)

Never understood the use of nasty chemicals on plants. Nor have I understood why the hell anyone would spray or wash their buds! For that matter, I never understood why people encourage others to do the same! 

Instead try these two methods:

1. Mix cayenne pepper foliar spray. All natural! Mix 1/8 teaspoon ground cayenne to 1 gallon of purified water. Spray only on leaves and never on buds. Start this before any flowering begins. Most all spiders, worms and bugs hate this. 

And/Or

2. Use a tomatoe tray. Dig hole for the plant. Put tray over hole, place plant in the cut out center and into the hole. Backfill the hole and roots. Center tray and fill with the cayenne water mixture. Keep filled at all times. Will not harm flowering stage.

Planting lots of wild flowers around your yard helps too! Attracts bees, butterflies, and ladybugs! The good stuff!!


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## MileHighMasterGrower (Jan 15, 2016)

Guess this site doesn't get any new posts, nor does it get rid of really old posts and replies. Finding myself posting to really old stuff. They need to do a lot of house cleaning around here, looking sloppy with all this old junk!


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## ResinDabz (Jan 15, 2016)

MileHighMasterGrower said:


> Never understood the use of nasty chemicals on plants. Nor have I understood why the hell anyone would spray or wash their buds! For that matter, I never understood why people encourage others to do the same!
> 
> Instead try these two methods:
> 
> ...


Nasty chemicals bt is a natural bio degradable pesticide and a very real way to deal with caterpillars it saved my outdoor harvest to each there own.. and ps it's not bud worm season or this thread come alive..


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## MileHighMasterGrower (Jan 15, 2016)

ResinDabz said:


> Nasty chemicals bt is a natural bio degradable pesticide and a very real way to deal with caterpillars it saved my outdoor harvest to each there own.. and ps it's not bud worm season or this thread come alive..


Oh...BT! I thought you were talking BS! Why didn't you say so! That's a chemical of a different color! lmao! No it's not worm season, but offered another alternative for viewers. And I am newbie on this site so I wasn't expecting to find so many old postings. But hey, I guess that's the way you all hang around here! And yes each to his own. For every method out there given by others, you'll find a million more!


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## Bear Country (Jan 16, 2016)

Dan Nabis said:


> I think I would dry those worms out and crush em up into a bowl and puff away.


 Mmmmmm THC infused bud worm!!!! LOL! I like your attitude.


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## smokealotabuds (Jan 17, 2016)

okay so ive just got my seeds and have germed a few was wondering when I should start using lights and adding fertilizer any recommendations??


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## MileHighMasterGrower (Jan 19, 2016)

Don't give nutes to early. Wait till third set Of leaves to appear. Light is ok anytime now. But not to much as you don't want to burn or kill them. Fluorescent lights work best.


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## smokealotabuds (Jan 20, 2016)

MileHighMasterGrower said:


> Don't give nutes to early. Wait till third set Of leaves to appear. Light is ok anytime now. But not to much as you don't want to burn or kill them. Fluorescent lights work best.


okay thanks for the advice sir lol wish I wouldhave saw that earlier my seedling flopped over when I gave it ferts lmao


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## Soilwatcher (Feb 10, 2016)

Problem with getting B.t. at a box or grow shop is you don't know how long it has been on the shelf.

We have been using Grandevo for foliar, and H.miles and nematodes for the soil: very effective. All bud worm and other caterpillars are DOA. Rarely see them since we started this program some years ago.


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## thumper60 (Feb 10, 2016)

Oregon Gardener said:


> I know I posted this somewhere else, but here it goes again. Those fuckers terrorized us in Southern Oregon, I experimented and that I want on my property will kill them. I wound up hiring a guy with a good eye to pick them off by hand! However we use sunflowers for privacy. One day I was in the garden with my Sure Shot and saw this. Sorry about my photography skills. I stopped smashing wasp's nests and became,"one" with the wasp.


yes they do the same tjing with


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## thumper60 (Feb 10, 2016)

thumper60 said:


> yes they do the same tjing with


tomato horn worm its laying egg nice pic


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## thumper60 (Feb 10, 2016)

I have been growing in maine 25 yrs 2015 first time I had to deal with bud worms crazey had a bunch,climate change?


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## trippnface (Feb 13, 2016)

thumper60 said:


> I have been growing in maine 25 yrs 2015 first time I had to deal with bud worms crazey had a bunch,climate change?


brutal. i wouldn't doubt it. 
i have read reports of new species of plants starting to grow in the south. climate certainly shifting


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## Herb_Potent (Apr 19, 2016)

I know the fact that is says on the bottle "for organic gardening" doesn't make it organic but I just wanted to let you guys know I had them as bad as anyone in modesto ca and once I started using this I never had them again. I only sprayed them with it in veg by the way. When I seen them flipping and the nodes starting to form flowers I sprayed one more time and that was it for 2 months.


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## Rhizosphere (Apr 20, 2016)

Herb_Potent said:


> I know the fact that is says on the bottle "for organic gardening" doesn't make it organic but I just wanted to let you guys know I had them as bad as anyone in modesto ca and once I started using this I never had them again. I only sprayed them with it in veg by the way. When I seen them flipping and the nodes starting to form flowers I sprayed one more time and that was it for 2 months.


safer caterpillar spray OMRI listed have used it for like 10 years super clean no harsh oils


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## Herb_Potent (Apr 20, 2016)

Good to hear from someone else. Nothing even compares to it in my experience.


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## germangrower (Apr 24, 2016)

Man your Plants look amazing, especially the second one. Damn


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## Rhizosphere (Apr 24, 2016)

2016 seedlings lookin good so far first pic taken 4-5-16 last two pics were taken on 4-20-16 and im gonna put them in the ground the 4-25-16 will put up some pics Tuesday hopefully


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## Weedman1108 (May 22, 2016)

So I have two plants growing outdoors would you guys say a windex bottle full of slug/worm repellant is enough for the two or them? I sprayed on the plant but mostly around the plant on the soil and whatnot, was that too much?


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## trippnface (May 27, 2016)

azamax & safer on the ready. Fuck these bugs


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## oldbikepunk (Jun 11, 2016)

trippnface said:


> azamax & safer on the ready. Fuck these bugs


Many of the worst ones are actually living in lawns in the neighborhood. Or your own. If you use a treatment on the lawn that is also beneficial to the lawn, you can kill a lot. I would lose whole plants, usually like Urkle or Space Queen or GDP. I took care of a kids rabbits. He was a day late and one wiggled into a closet. Guess what he only ate? The two best-GDP and GSC. I told the kid later and he guessed which one of three it was, ate like 18" plants...He said, "Oh, I bet it was the white one...he was being really nice last night to my brother and sister..." He also assumed I was mad, but it was too funny. They were killer clones too of course, but i got a lot left anyway.


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## oldbikepunk (Jun 11, 2016)

I want to find some kind of very fine & soft material like a mosquito net this fall and see if I can block them out. It's really annoying because between the little ones to the large ones, you can have a dead plant in a week from bites and the mold from their poops.


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## oldbikepunk (Jun 11, 2016)

Personally, I just smoke the spider mites. i don't care. If you use a magnifying scope you'll see that all a spider mite does is consume THC crystals like they're cramming a giant ice cream cone in their mouth. I saw one once, just engorged on a THC crystal as wide as his body.


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## TWS (Jun 14, 2016)

Should smoke the damn rabbit.


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## kilojay619 (Jun 15, 2016)

Had these attack my 1st grow ever about 3 week from harvest! I was devastated but learned a tough lesson


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## Nonagronomist (Jun 23, 2016)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


I found one of these today, nesting in a (formerly) Big Fat Bud. It's the first time in my life I actually wished for the extinction of an entire species.


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## JohnMotayo (Jun 25, 2016)

You guys make me scared to grow outdoors, I think i'll stick with my future indoor setup for cannabis this time around until i'm a bit more prepared. Did get a lot of great tips though reading over everything but until I have a more efficient setup i'll wait on growing cannabis seeds outdoors.


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## egiii (Jun 27, 2016)

My First time growing


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## trippnface (Jun 27, 2016)

oldbikepunk said:


> Many of the worst ones are actually living in lawns in the neighborhood. Or your own. If you use a treatment on the lawn that is also beneficial to the lawn, you can kill a lot. I would lose whole plants, usually like Urkle or Space Queen or GDP. I took care of a kids rabbits. He was a day late and one wiggled into a closet. Guess what he only ate? The two best-GDP and GSC. I told the kid later and he guessed which one of three it was, ate like 18" plants...He said, "Oh, I bet it was the white one...he was being really nice last night to my brother and sister..." He also assumed I was mad, but it was too funny. They were killer clones too of course, but i got a lot left anyway.


lol i love bunnies... but not when they munch my dank


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## BrownsWeed (Jul 4, 2016)

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this but try applying bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) it is safe for humans. I know that a lot of people do not like pesticides so try using it. It gets a bad rap thanks to uninformed people thinking the Bt gene introduction is evil (thanks Monsanto) but it really does work well if you catch the larva early.


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## Nonagronomist (Jul 4, 2016)

BrownsWeed said:


> I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this but try applying bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) it is safe for humans. I know that a lot of people do not like pesticides so try using it. It gets a bad rap thanks to uninformed people thinking the Bt gene introduction is evil (thanks Monsanto) but it really does work well if you catch the larva early.


I recently used BT on my grow area because of caterpillars eating my buds. I couldn't use a broad-spectrum insecticide because 1) of course you wouldn't and 2) I have a healthy ecosystem of beneficial insects in my grow area (aka my backyard) and I don't want to mess with them at all.

BT seems to be working, with no new bud invasions (and I have two plants at vulnerable stages right now) and a reduction in leaf munching as well. And the butterflies, ladybugs, and predator beetles are all still around.


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## dondeeno264 (Jul 5, 2016)

your buds look awesome


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## BrownsWeed (Jul 8, 2016)

Nonagronomist said:


> I recently used BT on my grow area because of caterpillars eating my buds. I couldn't use a broad-spectrum insecticide because 1) of course you wouldn't and 2) I have a healthy ecosystem of beneficial insects in my grow area (aka my backyard) and I don't want to mess with them at all.
> 
> BT seems to be working, with no new bud invasions (and I have two plants at vulnerable stages right now) and a reduction in leaf munching as well. And the butterflies, ladybugs, and predator beetles are all still around.


Serious question if a breed was developed that was resistant to bud worm and other insects would you buy it


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## dondeeno264 (Jul 9, 2016)

BrownsWeed said:


> Serious question if a breed was developed that was resistant to bud worm and other insects would you buy it


most likely it will be a strain thats not as good as a high quality grade


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## Nonagronomist (Jul 9, 2016)

BrownsWeed said:


> Serious question if a breed was developed that was resistant to bud worm and other insects would you buy it


I'm told that the ruderalis genes in autoflowering cannabis is somewhat resistant to insects in its own right. So far I've been able to mostly control insect pests by locating my grow area in my garden, which attracts all sorts of predators -- spiders, ladybugs, beetles, mantises, etc. -- and which keeps insect populations under control. I only used BT on the caterpillars because they managed to evade those natural systems.


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## josevolution (Jul 9, 2016)

New around here I'm a 2yr grower here in NY currently have 3 5 gallon buckets can someone just pointing in direction on purchasing the spray BT here are my plants I wanna prevent them worms


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## josevolution (Jul 10, 2016)

Ok found BT placed order


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## backtracker (Jul 12, 2016)

Here's a caterpillar control new to me, spendy but would be better than spraying buds with bt or poison let these little fellers do it. 

*http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/koppert-capsanem-steinernema-carpocapsae-p-11606.html*


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## Nonagronomist (Jul 12, 2016)

backtracker said:


> Here's a caterpillar control new to me, spendy but would be better than spraying buds with bt or poison let these little fellers do it.
> 
> *http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/koppert-capsanem-steinernema-carpocapsae-p-11606.html*


Like you say, a bit pricey. I suppose if it allows you to create a population of nematodes that would handle the problem in the future, that might be worth the prices. However, BT is really just bacteria, so I don't think I'm poisoning anything.


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## Diabolical666 (Jul 12, 2016)

I soooo hate moths. I wish I had a powerful hand vac so I can just suck them out of the air as they flutter around my plants. Last year I had 2 lb outdoor plants and each plant had a cpl buds infected.. some more then others, some not at all, 1 totally anihilated. So maybe some factors with these bastards:strain preference and how much rain has your area had ( more rain, more bugs). I used the bt lightly as I could, bc that smell is gross (menthol). After rains with I light mist, and aftwr inspections when needed. Maybe I should have used more...maybe they would have got infected anyways...


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## backtracker (Jul 12, 2016)

Nonagronomist said:


> Like you say, a bit pricey. I suppose if it allows you to create a population of nematodes that would handle the problem in the future, that might be worth the prices. However, BT is really just bacteria, so I don't think I'm poisoning anything.


Sunlight degrades Bt after a few hours so it needs to be sprayed after sunset and after they burrow in to the bud it wouldn't help,t is hard to cover every bud on a big plant but the nematodes are mobile as long as it is moist so if they were applied in the evening they would have all night to hunt the worms. I found this stuff https://www.fabric.com/buy/btr-039/54-wide-tulle-red they make it in different colors too. if someone just needed to protect a smaller plant this would keep the moths from laying eggs on the buds. red mulch is used to increase yields in strawberries and tomatoes wonder if it works on pot too.


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## Nonagronomist (Jul 12, 2016)

backtracker said:


> Sunlight degrades Bt after a few hours so it needs to be sprayed after sunset and after they burrow in to the bud it wouldn't help,t is hard to cover every bud on a big plant but the nematodes are mobile as long as it is moist so if they were applied in the evening they would have all night to hunt the worms. I found this stuff https://www.fabric.com/buy/btr-039/54-wide-tulle-red they make it in different colors too. if someone just needed to protect a smaller plant this would keep the moths from laying eggs on the buds. red mulch is used to increase yields in strawberries and tomatoes wonder if it works on pot too.


Hadn't thought of a screening fabric. I've been following the BT instructions, which are for a thorough soak of the plants, topside and bottomside. I've also inspected the buds closely for any sign of infestation. I did find one individual caterpillar (obviously a hatchling, since it was about a millimeter long) sitting on top of a growing bud, but no other evidence. As for the fluttering moths/butterflies, I welcome them to my yard -- it's a sign of its overall health that they come to it. I just draw the line at them raising their young in my buds.


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## backtracker (Jul 12, 2016)

I use these guys at the start of flowering until done: "The _Trichogramma spp_., as parasitoids, work by laying eggs in the eggs of many Lepidopteran spp (moths and butterflies). The adult wasps can lay up to 300 eggs each, parasitizing an equivalent number of soon-to-be destructive caterpillars, loopers and/or worms.The wasps’ larvae hatch from the eggs, attack the moths’ eggs’ embryos from within (endoparasitism). Instead of pests hatching out, more mini-wasps emerge instead.The lifespan of these parasitoids is roughly 7 days in their immature stages, then up to 10 days as adults." Do the perimeter out away too. Makes for a lot less work and stress but you still need to look because a few do make it. A bug zapper at night attracts night flying moths ZAAAP!! ZZZZZZ!!! what a beautiful sound. https://greenmethods.com/trichogramma/


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## josevolution (Jul 13, 2016)

Can I spray my outdoor plants before any flowers start popping up as a preventive measure against caterpillars , thanks for any help  with BT


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## WildeHilde (Jul 18, 2016)

BIRDS! you need birds, put out feeders and water baths.. they will start to wait for the seed and clean up branches as they wait. That's what I'd do, as well as hand pick. This is what I did for my vegetable plots works very well and quicker than you might think.


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## josevolution (Jul 19, 2016)

WildeHilde said:


> BIRDS! you need birds, put out feeders and water baths.. they will start to wait for the seed and clean up branches as they wait. That's what I'd do, as well as hand pick. This is what I did for my vegetable plots works very well and quicker than you might think.


Really never heard of this thanks I'll give it a try ! So you wouldn't use BT on the plants ..


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## thumper60 (Jul 19, 2016)

josevolution said:


> Really never heard of this thanks I'll give it a try ! So you wouldn't use BT on the plants ..


bt safe up to a point,get out early morning hand pic


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## Dready420 (Jul 19, 2016)

KushKing949 said:


> i think my buds are too far along for me to be spraying BT on em


The bud worms actually have to eat part of the the bud contaminated with the BT to die. So I do not believe it they are too far along. Of course you want to be cautious about mold and mildew and when to spray. BT degrades in sunlight and is best sprayed at dusk which is favorable for mold, but if you have lower humidity night its ok. You can also spray in the morning. It should degrade within 1 week of use. I use it once a week if necessary, but usually not. Ive never tasted it or smelled it, but also have never used past week 6 of flowering. Preventative maintenance is the best medicine here!


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## santacruztodd (Jul 19, 2016)

Dready420 said:


> The bud worms actually have to eat part of the the bud contaminated with the BT to die. So I do not believe it they are too far along. Of course you want to be cautious about mold and mildew and when to spray. BT degrades in sunlight and is best sprayed at dusk which is favorable for mold, but if you have lower humidity night its ok. You can also spray in the morning. It should degrade within 1 week of use. I use it once a week if necessary, but usually not. Ive never tasted it or smelled it, but also have never used past week 6 of flowering. Preventative maintenance is the best medicine here!


Bottom line-you need to be a budworm detective. Look for their poop, and for recently eaten leaves. Where there is poop there are worms. You can shake a branch vigorously and the worms generally fall off. BY sprays like Safer are good-make sure you coat the underside of the leaves. I don't spray buds, so it is only good for vegetative phase. It's OK to give some back to nature, but there is no cure for laziness. You need to stay on top of it and you only have yourself to blame if the worm problem gets out of control.


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## backtracker (Jul 20, 2016)

josevolution said:


> Can I spray my outdoor plants before any flowers start popping up as a preventive measure against caterpillars , thanks for any help  with BT





santacruztodd said:


> Bottom line-you need to be a budworm detective. Look for their poop, and for recently eaten leaves. Where there is poop there are worms. You can shake a branch vigorously and the worms generally fall off. BY sprays like Safer are good-make sure you coat the underside of the leaves. I don't spray buds, so it is only good for vegetative phase. It's OK to give some back to nature, but there is no cure for laziness. You need to stay on top of it and you only have yourself to blame if the worm problem gets out of control.


Early morning is a good time to find them they come out to get the morning sun, they are tiny at first and that's when to get them before they burrow in.


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## trippnface (Jul 22, 2016)

first cats spotted. it's on boys


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## trippnface (Jul 22, 2016)

backtracker said:


> I use these guys at the start of flowering until done: "The _Trichogramma spp_., as parasitoids, work by laying eggs in the eggs of many Lepidopteran spp (moths and butterflies). The adult wasps can lay up to 300 eggs each, parasitizing an equivalent number of soon-to-be destructive caterpillars, loopers and/or worms.The wasps’ larvae hatch from the eggs, attack the moths’ eggs’ embryos from within (endoparasitism). Instead of pests hatching out, more mini-wasps emerge instead.The lifespan of these parasitoids is roughly 7 days in their immature stages, then up to 10 days as adults." Do the perimeter out away too. Makes for a lot less work and stress but you still need to look because a few do make it. A bug zapper at night attracts night flying moths ZAAAP!! ZZZZZZ!!! what a beautiful sound. https://greenmethods.com/trichogramma/



those things sound badass; where do you pick em up?
I would love to see those elite soldiers fucking these devil moth/worms up

and hell ya; i would love a tesla coil capable of frying anything coming near my plants lol


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## backtracker (Jul 22, 2016)

trippnface said:


> those things sound badass; where do you pick em up?
> I would love to see those elite soldiers fucking these devil moth/worms up
> 
> and hell ya; i would love a tesla coil capable of frying anything coming near my plants lol


https://greenmethods.com/trichogramma/ http://www.evergreengrowers.com/moth-control/trichogramma-pretiosum-planteri-minutum-brassicae-moth-control.html


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## beanieldc (Jul 25, 2016)

Just started getting bud worms on only one of my plants? whats up with that?


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## thebonzaseedbank (Jul 25, 2016)

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/what-up-with-that/n12867


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## Pat666 (Jul 27, 2016)

backtracker said:


> https://greenmethods.com/trichogramma/ http://www.evergreengrowers.com/moth-control/trichogramma-pretiosum-planteri-minutum-brassicae-moth-control.html


Wow browsed the link and was amazed. That's so cool I'm ordering some rt now. Thanks for sharing this


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## Jared Cox (Jul 29, 2016)

Inspection, inspection, inspection. Those darn white flies. You can spray Dipel around your area to cut down the population.


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## Sativa911 (Jul 29, 2016)

BrownsWeed said:


> I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this but try applying bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) it is safe for humans. I know that a lot of people do not like pesticides so try using it. It gets a bad rap thanks to uninformed people thinking the Bt gene introduction is evil (thanks Monsanto) but it really does work well if you catch the larva early.


When should you stop using before harvest? I would hate for my bud to taste bad =(


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## josevolution (Jul 31, 2016)

Can anyone tell me what these guys are and should spray anything to get rid of'em they have wings are very fast any help would be greatly appreciated ..


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## backtracker (Jul 31, 2016)

josevolution said:


> View attachment 3746141 Can anyone tell me what these guys are and should spray anything to get rid of'em they have wings are very fast any help would be greatly appreciated ..


Leafhopper and do kill them asap they suck juice from the plant and spread nasty shit around. Captain Jacks Bad Bug Spray works.


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## thumper60 (Jul 31, 2016)

josevolution said:


> View attachment 3746141 Can anyone tell me what these guys are and should spray anything to get rid of'em they have wings are very fast any help would be greatly appreciated ..


if outside imposable to get rid of,grow big healthy plants letem chew


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## josevolution (Jul 31, 2016)

Thanks yeah hard to control will look into CJBB spray ...


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## backtracker (Jul 31, 2016)

thumper60 said:


> if outside imposable to get rid of,grow big healthy plants letem chew


Not impossible but damn hard. I had an invasion of the bastards this spring. I got a hose end sprayer a gallon of CJBBS and in the early morning and late evening I sprayed around every plant and any place they were seen also mowed all the places they could hide. They hop on and off the plants and they lay eggs in the soil so getting them and the soil wet with CJBBS kills the eggs and the adults. It took about three weeks but they're all dead now. Persistence.


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## josevolution (Jul 31, 2016)

Ok thanks for the advice ^^^^


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## kowski (Aug 11, 2016)

KushKing949 said:


> i hate them bastards i have to go out into my garden every morning with latex gloves and tweasers and pick the fuckers outta my sweet smelling buds and clean up the mess they made if that means chopping and throwing away buds i also find tons of eggs as well and fuck its just so many..good thing i got alot of colas that arent infested yet im not afraid to dig into my sticky buds to make sure they are clean this is my first grow and i will be prepared for em next yr.


Have you tried diatomaceous earth on the plants to kill the bugs?


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## indican3 (Aug 21, 2016)

Questions

First season growing outdoor in Southern Ontario Canada, I went to my local hydroponics store and asked about bud worm and if they sold anything. Guy looked really puzzled, he'd been there for over a decade and said he never heard of anyone really with budworm issue and had nothing for it. So my first question is.....do I need to be concerned about this like how regional is budworms lol?

Second question is I bought some BTK, if I spray my plants with it, how long do I have to wait before I can add pollen to the bud sites? I'm trying to cross 2 plants.

Edit: I asked a second hydro store and the guy gave me the same response, I don't think it's something I have to worry about it in my area.


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## thumper60 (Aug 22, 2016)

indican3 said:


> Questions
> 
> First season growing outdoor in Southern Ontario Canada, I went to my local hydroponics store and asked about bud worm and if they sold anything. Guy looked really puzzled, he'd been there for over a decade and said he never heard of anyone really with budworm issue and had nothing for it. So my first question is.....do I need to be concerned about this like how regional is budworms lol?
> 
> ...


been growing in maine 20 plus yr,last yr first time I had bud worms, climate change?


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## josevolution (Aug 27, 2016)

backtracker said:


> Not impossible but damn hard. I had an invasion of the bastards this spring. I got a hose end sprayer a gallon of CJBBS and in the early morning and late evening I sprayed around every plant and any place they were seen also mowed all the places they could hide. They hop on and off the plants and they lay eggs in the soil so getting them and the soil wet with CJBBS kills the eggs and the adults. It took about three weeks but they're all dead now. Persistence.



So an I spray the plants directly with cjbbs ? Now that they are totally flowering ?


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## backtracker (Aug 27, 2016)

josevolution said:


> So an I spray the plants directly with cjbbs ? Now that they are totally flowering ?


In flower you can use The Amazing Doctor Zymes https://nhs-hydroponics.com/doctor-zymes-eliminator-1-quart/ it doesn't leave any thing on the flowers it dissolves them and their droppings.


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## josevolution (Aug 28, 2016)

backtracker said:


> In flower you can use The Amazing Doctor Zymes https://nhs-hydroponics.com/doctor-zymes-eliminator-1-quart/ it doesn't leave any thing on the flowers it dissolves them and their droppings.


Thanks s ton !


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## josevolution (Aug 29, 2016)

Took this tonight


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## josevolution (Aug 29, 2016)

Like this shot


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## slow drawl (Sep 4, 2016)

The culprit..


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## backtracker (Sep 5, 2016)

slow drawl said:


> The culprit..View attachment 3772785


That's a butterfly bud worm caterpillars come from moths. Butterflies are mostly plant specific so they lay eggs on plants that the caterpillars can eat like the Monarch butterfly caterpillars only eat milkweed. Bud worm moths fly at night. 
*"One of the easiest ways to tell the difference between a butterfly and a moth is to look at the antennae. A butterfly’s antennae are club-shaped with a long shaft and a bulb at the end. A moth’s antennae are feathery or saw-edged."*


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## slow drawl (Sep 5, 2016)

slow drawl said:


> The culprit..View attachment 3772785





backtracker said:


> That's a butterfly bud worm caterpillars come from moths. Butterflies are mostly plant specific so they lay eggs on plants that the caterpillars can eat like the Monarch butterfly caterpillars only eat milkweed. Bud worm moths fly at night.
> *"One of the easiest ways to tell the difference between a butterfly and a moth is to look at the antennae. A butterfly’s antennae are club-shaped with a long shaft and a bulb at the end. A moth’s antennae are feathery or saw-edged."*


The pic I posted is a Cabbage White butterfly...they do lay their eggs on cannabis flowers.


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## thumper60 (Sep 5, 2016)

slow drawl said:


> The pic I posted is a Cabbage White butterfly...they do lay their eggs on cannabis flowers.


u r correct,igrow lots of cold crops,fighting them bad right now I have also caught them on my other plants ,long handle net is what I use


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## backtracker (Sep 5, 2016)

slow drawl said:


> The pic I posted is a Cabbage White butterfly...they do lay their eggs on cannabis flowers.


"All known host plants contain natural chemicals called glucosinolates, *glucosinolates* are natural components of many pungent plants such as mustard, cabbage, and horseradish." I can't find if cannibus contains glucosinolates but it has over 400 componds. Those bastards eat my collards so they are DOA. I see butterflies on pot plants sometimes but they aren't laying eggs and hate to kill something for no reason. From what it says if they do lay eggs on the wrong plant the larvae won't eat it and starve. .


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## Stickyicky42O (Sep 8, 2016)

fdd2blk said:


> i've been spraying Bt at least once a week. i will spray until the last 2 weeks or so. we have foggy evenings in the fall so it rinses everything.


Soap an water kills them stupid ass things.. last year I got them so I sprayed with soap an water and them bitches just feel off .... use dawn dish soap no frag if possible


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## illmatix (Sep 11, 2016)

These things are attacking my buds too... I have the little webs, black eggs and brown mushy dead bud they leave behind. Now i also pick them out almost daily and its been fine since.


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## Stickyicky42O (Sep 12, 2016)

Just do a spray every 2-3 nights of the soap n water....


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## tyson53 (Sep 12, 2016)

we been getting the worms here in the North East...I been using BT every 5 days and been working..no more worms...I tear thru the buds daily to check...I tried the soap thing last year..worked so so..does not last long..and also I would not spray Dawn or any dish soaps on budded plants..they aree more a detergent than soap..and will degrade the waxy substance of the trics....use a soap like Dr Bronners...use either the peppermint or the lavender..they will more deter the moths from laying eggs more than any thing...

I am around a lot of farm country and also where they grow tobacco so they are bad here at times...but so far using BT the last few years has worked great...a few brands are Thuricide BT...safers worm and catapiller killer and southern AG catipiller killer...get at Lowes..Home Depot or tractor supply...

i had to use pyrethrum 1 year as they were so bad..then I followed with BT after the first big kill to control them...


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## Stickyicky42O (Sep 12, 2016)

Dang good to know I was told to use dawn


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## dopechess (Sep 12, 2016)

I've been proactive this year with bud worms, been spraying BT every 5days or so from about week 4 in veg. I found a couple of spherical egg like things on my buds. Do you think those are caterpillar eggs? (in center of the frame, there are 2 spherical objects)

Do the moths like to lay their eggs on the surface of the Buds? or do they bury them deeper in the buds?


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## seanmace54 (Sep 25, 2016)

Dan Nabis said:


> I think I would dry those worms out and crush em up into a bowl and puff away.


haha. not a bad idea.


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## slownickel (Oct 6, 2016)

Spinosad has a prolonged response verus BT's. Javelin is the BT that seems to work for a couple of days. 

Spinosad even works on the caterpillar/moth eggs. Entrust is an organic source, there are a couple of them out there.


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## slownickel (Oct 6, 2016)

dopechess said:


> I've been proactive this year with bud worms, been spraying BT every 5days or so from about week 4 in veg. I found a couple of spherical egg like things on my buds. Do you think those are caterpillar eggs? (in center of the frame, there are 2 spherical objects)
> 
> Do the moths like to lay their eggs on the surface of the Buds? or do they bury them deeper in the buds?
> 
> View attachment 3779183


Sure looks like lepidoptera eggs.... (moths/caterpillars).


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## roflcopter420 (Oct 9, 2016)

slownickel said:


> Sure looks like lepidoptera eggs.... (moths/caterpillars).


I think so too! What do others say?


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## GreenBoxGrown (Oct 24, 2016)

I hate those nasty little things, especially when they are crawling around on my buds! Those red Pistils in the sunlight are so crazy though. Such beautiful buds!


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## jbcCT (Nov 6, 2016)

Lost some bud on my last harvest before fall to the worms. Wasn't infested but enough to cause a loss. You also end up with gross black little grit, either their poop or eggs. It was the only pest I really had to deal with this year.


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## sandhill larry (Nov 8, 2016)

jbcCT said:


> Lost some bud on my last harvest before fall to the worms. Wasn't infested but enough to cause a loss. You also end up with gross black little grit, either their poop or eggs. It was the only pest I really had to deal with this year.


I had a problem with them on my Bag Seed Testers. Worms, then rot. Lost some. Picked a whole lot early.


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## jbcCT (Nov 8, 2016)

P


sandhill larry said:


> I had a problem with them on my Bag Seed Testers. Worms, then rot. Lost some. Picked a whole lot early.


Yeah mother nature will force our hand from time to time. No rot, these were tiny, almost like an inch worm. I didn't let them get big maybe. what's good protection from worms?


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## sandhill larry (Nov 11, 2016)

jbcCT said:


> P
> 
> Yeah mother nature will force our hand from time to time. No rot, these were tiny, almost like an inch worm. I didn't let them get big maybe. what's good protection from worms?


If there is any worm shit in the buds, you may get rot on down the road.

Google BT. That is what most folks use in one form or the other for their IPM.


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## Sir Napsalot (Nov 20, 2016)

jbcCT said:


> P
> 
> Yeah mother nature will force our hand from time to time. No rot, these were tiny, almost like an inch worm. I didn't let them get big maybe. what's good protection from worms?


Mosquito netting enclosure 
bug zapper


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## jbcCT (Nov 23, 2016)

sandhill larry said:


> If there is any worm shit in the buds, you may get rot on down the road.
> 
> Google BT. That is what most folks use in one form or the other for their IPM.


The afflicted areas we're small enough to cut out, taking the little black worm shit with it. Took forever to trim as I went over it with magnifying glass, wanted the cleanest product possible. Most plants were worm free. 

I ran 100%Afghan and these suckers were not only resilient against pests, they were most happy in 90-95 degree summer sun and they liked it on the dry side water wise.


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## TheHempberg369 (Dec 2, 2016)

Sorry to hear about the worms, you got a pretty looking lady.


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## dano88 (Dec 5, 2016)

Never heard of that only snailsand they like smaller juicer plants I find.


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## vino4russ (Jan 29, 2017)

potroast said:


> For budworms, you should spray your plants every 3 weeks with BT, a beneficial bacteria, throughout their veg state, and the first half of flowering. That will keep the worms from growing on your plants. And that way, you don't have to spray your ripening buds.
> 
> BT will affect the taste of your bud if used too late in the season. It's just fine to wash your plants before harvest. Even my indoor plants are sometimes taken outside on harvest day and sprayed down well with a fine spray, and then dried for a couple of hours and harvested.
> 
> HTH


Thanks Potroast, I know this was a longtime ago post but it works great. Great advise


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## BushMaster15 (Jan 31, 2017)

dano88 said:


> Never heard of that only snailsand they like smaller juicer plants I find.


I always had problems with slugs. I fucking hate those things!


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## Mysticalgrower94 (Mar 1, 2017)

What is b


potroast said:


> For budworms, you should spray your plants every 3 weeks with BT, a beneficial bacteria, throughout their veg state, and the first half of flowering. That will keep the worms from growing on your plants. And that way, you don't have to spray your ripening buds.
> 
> BT will affect the taste of your bud if used too late in the season. It's just fine to wash your plants before harvest. Even my indoor plants are sometimes taken outside on harvest day and sprayed down well with a fine spray, and then dried for a couple of hours and harvested.
> 
> HTH


What is BT? New on these things, sorry.


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## 37Caligrown (Mar 5, 2017)

Cut the dead or damaged part out 
If it's to bad cut the whole bud off if u have them its hard to just be rid of them ,but manage them til u harvest


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## Fender Super (Mar 14, 2017)

KushKing949 said:


> if your outdoors u have a good chance of getting them unless u were prepared i wasnt so i got them i have to search my buds everyday and i find tons its gross


When you say 'prepared,' can you please define that more, in the context of your own grow? Will a greenhouse do anything to keep them away?


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## Purpnugz (Mar 29, 2017)

No pest strips


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## Jaybodankly (Mar 29, 2017)

I would grow in a pollination cage and avoid all the bugs, slugs and random pollen!

https://www.google.com/search?q=pollination+cage&safe=off&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwir2Iuo1PzSAhXC54MKHVjIDcAQsAQILQ&biw=1296&bih=695


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## chemphlegm (Mar 29, 2017)

Bt is what monsanto makes corn produce within its genome. GMO foods allow us to eat Bt. 
Since 80% of your immune system is located in your gut, the last thing you want to do is eat gut-destroying Bt toxins

Bacillus thuringiensis (BT) is a gram-positive soil-dwelling bacterium that has been used as an insecticide since the 1920s. When farmers spray their crops with this bacterium or its insecticidal proteins or spores, insects eat it and they die when their intestines explode. When this pesticide is just sprayed *on* your food, you are able to wash it off. Indeed, the spraying of it on crops, even organic crops, allows it to be washed off. Sunshine also quickly degrades it. When used in this way it is considered effective against pests and harmless to humans, as it is not absorbed into the plant.

Mice fed natural Bt-toxin showed significant immune responses and caused them to become sensitive to other formerly harmless compounds. This suggests that Bt-toxin might make a person allergic to a wide range of substances. (1, 2, 3) Farm workers and others have also had reactions to natural Bt-toxin, (4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ) and authorities acknowledge that “People with compromised immune systems or preexisting allergies may be particularly susceptible to the effects of Bt.” (9) In fact, when natural Bt was sprayed over areas around Vancouver and Washington State to fight gypsy moths, about 500 people reported reactions—mostly allergy or flu-like symptoms. Six people had to go to the emergency room.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mercola/bt-corn_b_2442072.html


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## chemphlegm (Mar 29, 2017)

Jaybodankly said:


> I would grow in a pollination cage and avoid all the bugs, slugs and random pollen!
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=pollination+cage&safe=off&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwir2Iuo1PzSAhXC54MKHVjIDcAQsAQILQ&biw=1296&bih=695



a pollination cage, you dont say......thanks for that


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## Purpnugz (Mar 31, 2017)

4x Twisted sister


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## Purpnugz (Mar 31, 2017)

Iiberty haze
 
 
LSD


----------



## Joey McBuds (Jun 15, 2017)

KushKing949 said:


> why in the world would you do that?????? i would seriously like to see you do it. I think it would be funny. and a lil dee dee dee !


Clearly that one crawled over your head lol


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## SnakierGrizzly (Jun 18, 2017)

Purpnugz said:


> Iiberty haze
> View attachment 3916883
> View attachment 3916890
> LSD
> View attachment 3916891


BEAutiful


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## Lord Kanti (Jun 19, 2017)

I really hate that It's come to this, but I don't think I can pick out all the caterpillars by hand this season. They can be so annoying, but they grow up to be pollinators and are crucial for our environment, also they are rather cute and friendly when they're bumbling around in your palm and not eating your crops. I know that the large spooky horned ones grow up to be the beautiful sphinx / hummingbird moth. If I can see any, I will grab them and put them in the flower garden, but as of tonight I will be experimenting with an unconventional bacterial control agent. I'll try to post results, but harvest is still quite a way off, so no promises as of yet. 

Protip: DO NOT REMOVE THE PAPER WASPS FROM AROUND YOUR HOME. Paper wasps prey upon caterpillars. If they are too close for comfort and they are attacking you, then you must do what you've got to do, but not many people realize that paper wasps are beneficial predatory insects. I have a ton that I was going to remove, but now I will not, as they are not bothering anyone, even though they scary to some visitors.


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## trippnface (Jun 24, 2017)

Lord Kanti said:


> I really hate that It's come to this, but I don't think I can pick out all the caterpillars by hand this season. They can be so annoying, but they grow up to be pollinators and are crucial for our environment, also they are rather cute and friendly when they're bumbling around in your palm and not eating your crops. I know that the large spooky horned ones grow up to be the beautiful sphinx / hummingbird moth. If I can see any, I will grab them and put them in the flower garden, but as of tonight I will be experimenting with an unconventional bacterial control agent. I'll try to post results, but harvest is still quite a way off, so no promises as of yet.
> 
> Protip: DO NOT REMOVE THE PAPER WASPS FROM AROUND YOUR HOME. Paper wasps prey upon caterpillars. If they are too close for comfort and they are attacking you, then you must do what you've got to do, but not many people realize that paper wasps are beneficial predatory insects. I have a ton that I was going to remove, but now I will not, as they are not bothering anyone, even though they scary to some visitors.



FLCL season 2 on the way son!


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## Lord Kanti (Jun 26, 2017)

Has a date been given?

I sprayed for caterpillars with some bacteria that I brewed. Haven't seen any caterpillars lately, but they could be hiding. I'll spray again in a few days after I pick out all the dead matter that has been drying up from the caterpillars before.


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## trippnface (Jun 28, 2017)

Lord Kanti said:


> Has a date been given?
> 
> I sprayed for caterpillars with some bacteria that I brewed. Haven't seen any caterpillars lately, but they could be hiding. I'll spray again in a few days after I pick out all the dead matter that has been drying up from the caterpillars before.


http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2017/06/17/flcl-23-trailer-presentation-planned-for-anime-expo

i won't spray BT yet until plants start to flower; cuz it seems like the cats really like to lay eggs in devoloping nodes. then i hit hard up until about mid august


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## Lord Kanti (Jun 28, 2017)

trippnface said:


> http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2017/06/17/flcl-23-trailer-presentation-planned-for-anime-expo
> 
> i won't spray BT yet until plants start to flower; cuz it seems like the cats really like to lay eggs in devoloping nodes. then i hit hard up until about mid august


too late. I found another caterpillar in the bud this morning so I sprayed while the sun was down. My leaves are going to shit on some of my plants, I pretty much spray in the middle of the night so I'm not sure what the deal is. I wonder if I need to just put up a shade cloth or move the plants into partial shade. It's triple digits here. 

I'll check the link in the meantime.


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## potroastV2 (Jun 30, 2017)

There are a couple of general rules to follow when spraying your plants with anything:

1. The rule of 140 - Add the current temperature and the relative humidity, and if the total is more than 140 then do not spray.

2. Never put your plants to bed wet - don't spray in the evening, or at night. It's best to spray plants in the morning before they are in full sun.


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## thumper60 (Jun 30, 2017)

rollitup said:


> There are a couple of general rules to follow when spraying your plants with anything:
> 
> 1. The rule of 140 - Add the current temperature and the relative humidity, and if the total is more than 140 then do not spray.
> 
> 2. Never put your plants to bed wet - don't spray in the evening, or at night. It's best to spray plants in the morning before they are in full sun.


yes let them dry with rising sun


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## Lord Kanti (Jun 30, 2017)

That 140 rule will come in handy this summer. 

The plants didn't like my repellent spray that I use for mites. I sprayed them again with my Epsom salt mix and they look like proper sun worshippers now. I think that after it sets, the mite spray needs to be rinsed before full sun. No issues with the caterpillar spray. At least not yet. I might not be able to tell how well it works until the next round of plants go into flower.


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## doug mirabelli (Jun 30, 2017)

rollitup said:


> There are a couple of general rules to follow when spraying your plants with anything:
> 
> 1. The rule of 140 - Add the current temperature and the relative humidity, and if the total is more than 140 then do not spray.
> 
> 2. Never put your plants to bed wet - don't spray in the evening, or at night. It's best to spray plants in the morning before they are in full sun.


This is great advice. I've been scrambling since I've converted to outdoors. Bud rot and worms are now the enemy eh? Is BT going make my bud taste poo? I've tried to hard to use organic products for the sake of taste. I'm not excited about this. Especially since it's a problem that I've only read about and assume I'll run into


----------



## Lord Kanti (Jun 30, 2017)

doug mirabelli said:


> This is great advice. I've been scrambling since I've converted to outdoors. Bud rot and worms are now the enemy eh? Is BT going make my bud taste poo? I've tried to hard to use organic products for the sake of taste. I'm not excited about this. Especially since it's a problem that I've only read about and assume I'll run into


I haven't noticed any smell. Once the buds are ready I can vaporize a sample. Worst case scenario is I make RSO from it.


----------



## sandhill larry (Jul 1, 2017)

rollitup said:


> There are a couple of general rules to follow when spraying your plants with anything:
> 
> 1. The rule of 140 - Add the current temperature and the relative humidity, and if the total is more than 140 then do not spray.
> 
> 2. Never put your plants to bed wet - don't spray in the evening, or at night. It's best to spray plants in the morning before they are in full sun.


So you are saying I can never spray? My temp is 91 and RH is 56%. Each day as one goes up, the other comes down, but the sum of the two will not get below 140 until about the end of September.


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## potroastV2 (Jul 1, 2017)

sandhill larry said:


> So you are saying I can never spray? My temp is 91 and RH is 56%. Each day as one goes up, the other comes down, but the sum of the two will not get below 140 until about the end of September.


It's a general rule. If your total is always above 140 then you must spray sparingly and carefully, and only in the early morning.


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## sandhill larry (Jul 1, 2017)

rollitup said:


> It's a general rule. If your total is always above 140 then you must spray sparingly and carefully, and only in the early morning.


I was joking. NW Florida makes you break all the general rules.


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## potroastV2 (Jul 1, 2017)

NW Florida? Are you sure the humidity is only 56 percent?


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## sandhill larry (Jul 1, 2017)

rollitup said:


> NW Florida? Are you sure the humidity is only 56 percent?


It's a fine day compared to the last three or four weeks. I started late so my plants would stay smaller, and our rainy season started in June instead of July or August. Who knew it, 20+ days of rain and no sun is bad for sprouts.


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## Sir Napsalot (Jul 1, 2017)

My $5 St. Vinnie's bug zapper has been working like a charm so far- gotten quite a few little white moths.
I mounted it around a corner from where my plants spend the night on the patio to avoid the flourescent light from the bug zapper messing with my plants, so far so good but will have to see once I get into flowering.


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## ladybug2 (Jul 4, 2017)

Hello, I'm new. This is my third grow. There in the house right now. But, I'm bring them out soon. Not looking forward to the bug war. Sir Napsalot love the bug zapper idea. I would get one, but I do not live in a free state for mj grow. From the road, I do not want people to drive by and see a zap. That would make people curious. Although, my grow area is in the woods and covered by trees and bushes. I can still see parts of cars driving by. Purpnugz, I love the pictures of your grow.


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## sforza (Jul 8, 2017)

rollitup said:


> It's a general rule. If your total is always above 140 then you must spray sparingly and carefully, and only in the early morning.


I spray in the evening and the morning. No problems. It is not a good idea to spray at night if you have buds, but it is not a good idea to spray in the morning if you have buds either, since the buds act like sponges.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 16, 2017)

I'm honestly thinking predatory wasps for my gorilla grow. Does anyone have a rough guesstimate as to when the moths start to lay eggs? I'm eastern Ontario so I may order a couple of batches starting mid to end of August unless I start seeing eggs . Last year I didn't have any but the year before I had lots of buds effected.


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## too larry (Jul 30, 2017)

I found a worm on a seedling a couple three weeks ago. Due to current events, I haven't been able to spray for the last 2 weeks. Hope it was just a one off.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 30, 2017)

too larry said:


> I found a worm on a seedling a couple three weeks ago. Due to current events, I haven't been able to spray for the last 2 weeks. Hope it was just a one off.


I have some auto's fattening now so if I got em I'll see soon.


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## Kygiacomo (Aug 5, 2017)

too larry said:


> I found a worm on a seedling a couple three weeks ago. Due to current events, I haven't been able to spray for the last 2 weeks. Hope it was just a one off.


usually if u find one there is more that u dont see..thats at least how its been with my outdoor girls..but i never have no issues till the buds get big,then the little bastards hide in there..i bought some BTK powder its 54% ktk..its called dipel dust..i usally start spraying around week 2 of flower on my ladies so i can get the bacteria in there in the nooks and crannys early on


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## too larry (Aug 5, 2017)

Kygiacomo said:


> usually if u find one there is more that u dont see..thats at least how its been with my outdoor girls..but i never have no issues till the buds get big,then the little bastards hide in there..i bought some BTK powder its 54% ktk..its called dipel dust..i usally start spraying around week 2 of flower on my ladies so i can get the bacteria in there in the nooks and crannys early on


I took the seedling from my screen room to the patch. It was small enough I would have seen more. Didn't see any on any of the other seedlings. I've never seen them on seedlings before, but this is late start stuff.


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## jbcCT (Sep 2, 2017)

I don't spray anything directly on my plants ever. This year, I treated my actual patch. Because I run outdoor pots I moved them several times and used Sevin & Cutter liquid, sprayer attached to garden hose, multiple treatments of patch and surrounding area. Stuff worked so well it killed all airborne mosquito. I can sit out at night, not a single bite. Amazing. All without spraying the plant.


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## Sir Napsalot (Sep 3, 2017)

I keep a good watch on my shit


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## marcospartida (Sep 4, 2017)

Wh


Sir Napsalot said:


> I keep a good watch on my shit
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4004771


What are those


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## marcospartida (Sep 4, 2017)

rollitup said:


> There are a couple of general rules to follow when spraying your plants with anything:
> 
> 1. The rule of 140 - Add the current temperature and the relative humidity, and if the total is more than 140 then do not spray.
> 
> 2. Never put your plants to bed wet - don't spray in the evening, or at night. It's best to spray plants in the morning before they are in full sun.


Why not??mold?


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## Jimmy Verde (Sep 4, 2017)

Yoooo wtf please tell me this not a bud worm


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## Chunky Stool (Sep 4, 2017)

You could use a decoy plant. Moths *love* laying eggs on mint plants! (Mites like basil.)


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## Sir Napsalot (Sep 4, 2017)

marcospartida said:


> Wh
> 
> What are those


Moth eggs- left alone they'd hatch out into many caterpillars


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## Sir Napsalot (Sep 4, 2017)

Jimmy Verde said:


> Yoooo wtf please tell me this not a bud worm


That's one of the many species of "bud worms". Spray BT early in the morning


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## Jimmy Verde (Sep 4, 2017)

Sir Napsalot said:


> That's one of the many species of "bud worms". Spray BT early in the morning


 Someone told me its more of a leaf then bud eater is this true


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## Sir Napsalot (Sep 4, 2017)

Jimmy Verde said:


> Someone told me its more of a leaf then bud eater is this true


Possibly- different species like different parts of the plant


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## Jimmy Verde (Sep 4, 2017)

So I got inch worms? Not harmful?


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## potroastV2 (Sep 4, 2017)

Yes, your picture is a little worm. They eat plant matter, so none are good to have. 

That worm has already eaten a bunch, so it is big enough for us to see. When they are tiny, they eat the inside of the bud. Then they get bigger and turn more green in color.

BT is a beneficial bacteria so when mixed in water, you are spraying your plants with water mostly. I've never noticed that BT affected anything about the finished bud. 

Besides, I spray my plants with water before harvest anyway. Then let them dry and chop.


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## Jimmy Verde (Sep 5, 2017)

rollitup said:


> Yes, your picture is a little worm. They eat plant matter, so none are good to have.
> 
> That worm has already eaten a bunch, so it is big enough for us to see. When they are tiny, they eat the inside of the bud. Then they get bigger and turn more green in color.
> 
> ...


OH damn good looks I thought it was just a leaf eater didn't want to get bt for only find 2 on 12 plus plants but if u say it's a bud eater it's getting juiced


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## sh0x (Sep 13, 2017)

rollitup said:


> Yes, your picture is a little worm. They eat plant matter, so none are good to have.
> I've never noticed that BT affected anything about the finished bud.


Never? Really? lol, why is this thread still alive.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/yeah-its-bud-worm-season-pics.108398/#post-1300453
https://www.rollitup.org/t/yeah-its-bud-worm-season-pics.108398/page-2#post-1324715


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## sh0x (Sep 13, 2017)

Just my .02, use BT "when needed". When in need, use it every few days because eggs hatch between 4-10 days. When the caterpillar's eat the BT, they don't technically die right away. They get sick and can't eat anymore then eventually die. You may see them alive but not healthy after spraying. New eggs can be laid and can hatch after initial spraying, so monitor and continue spraying every few days until harvest (most likely). Moths typically lay eggs on the upper / biggest buds, but they can lay anywhere.

BT needs to be sprayed when the sun is down. Early morning or evening are your best options.


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## Dreadfully dank dd (Sep 15, 2017)

What is BT? Im in my first grow, outdoor. How can you tell when you have bud worms?


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## Sir Napsalot (Sep 16, 2017)

sh0x said:


> Just my .02, use BT "when needed". When in need, use it every few days because eggs hatch between 4-10 days. When the caterpillar's eat the BT, they don't technically die right away. They get sick and can't eat anymore then eventually die. You may see them alive but not healthy after spraying. New eggs can be laid and can hatch after initial spraying, so monitor and continue spraying every few days until harvest (most likely). Moths typically lay eggs on the upper / biggest buds, but they can lay anywhere.
> 
> BT needs to be sprayed when the sun is down. Early morning or evening are your best options.


I've never found any eggs on buds, only on leaves and lower ones at that.


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## SageFromZen (Sep 20, 2017)

Little rat bastards are hitting my plants right now too. I've been out there every morning with the plastic tweasers picking them off and hacking away whats been contaminated. This morning threw me an added bonus feature because the marine layer started dumping a steady mist. So I brought em' in under the awning with the wheel barrow til it blew through. Sun came out so I put em back out again. Then I'm making eggs and hash browns and happen to glance out the kitchen window... it's misting again. Back under the awning.

I can't win for losing today.


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## Dreadfully dank dd (Sep 20, 2017)

SageFromZen said:


> Little rat bastards are hitting my plants right now too. I've been out there every morning with the plastic tweasers picking them off and hacking away whats been contaminated. This morning threw me an added bonus feature because the marine layer started dumping a steady mist. So I brought em' in under the awning with the wheel barrow til it blew through. Sun came out so I put em back out again. Then I'm making eggs and hash browns and happen to glance out the kitchen window... it's misting again. Back under the awning.
> 
> I can't win for losing today.


But youve got eggs and hash browns! Its not all that bad!


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## SCJedi (Sep 20, 2017)

Well, they got me. I became a bit complacent since I have been at war with spider mites. I have been dosing with alternating rounds of essential oils and orchard strength pyrethrin/sulfur mix. Mites are still there but kicked to the curb HARD. The problem was that cocktails did ZILCH for the worms. NADA!

A few days ago I noticed a little bit of necrosis on a bud tip. I tugged on the dead leaf and the whole tip pulled off and there was a baby worm. FUCK. I began looking around and found 3 more dead tips. More fuck. Spent a few days hunting and cleaning and today in the mid-day 80 degree weather I soak the crap out of everything with BT. Veggie garden to. I see the skipper moths and thought nothing of it. DIE! I said.

Included a couple of pics I took at inspection. You can see the dead tip(s) or where I pulled them off.


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## Warpedpassage (Sep 20, 2017)

Have you folks noticed these critters forming stuff that looks like webbing on flowers? The "webbing" only becomes apparent after harvest when breaking up flowers. Practically no damage to leaves. Will post some pics in a day or two.


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## potroastV2 (Sep 20, 2017)

Wow, that doesn't sound good. Is the webbing like a spider-web? That sounds suspiciously like spider mites. Look closely on the bottom of a leaf, they will look like black specs. With magnification, you'll see they are spider-like mites.

Since you said you see it when breaking up buds, if it's on the inside, it could be fungus.


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## Chunky Stool (Sep 20, 2017)

rollitup said:


> Wow, that doesn't sound good. Is the webbing like a spider-web? That sounds suspiciously like spider mites. Look closely on the bottom of a leaf, they will look like black specs. With magnification, you'll see they are spider-like mites.
> 
> Since you said you see it when breaking up buds, if it's on the inside, it could be fungus.


Are your leaves speckled? 
Here are pics of textbook spider mite damage:


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## Sir Napsalot (Sep 21, 2017)

I'm doing pretty good- I found one small bud that was affected today, I cut it out and examined it closely and found caterpillar poop but no critter. I think the BT may have killed it. I'm spraying again tomorrow morning.


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## Dreadfully dank dd (Sep 21, 2017)

I have a personal war with spider mites and white spiders in general. I dont want to imagine the sick feeling one gets at the discovery of infestation.
On another note...
I have found myself, this evening, lying in the hammock among my garden looking at tonights pictures of the plants and giggling. And giggling. I am so pleased with myself and the outcome (almost) of my first grow that im giddy. I think im hooked. I never want to stop. I cant be the only one to get this excited about growing.


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## Warpedpassage (Sep 29, 2017)

Warpedpassage said:


> Have you folks noticed these critters forming stuff that looks like webbing on flowers? The "webbing" only becomes apparent after harvest when breaking up flowers. Practically no damage to leaves. Will post some pics in a day or two.


Alright folks false alarm. Looks like im dealing with something entirely different. Definitely not spider mites. Dealt with those buggers in the past, and can spot them a mile away. 

I believe i have some kind of eggs (maybe some kind of leaf miner) hatching in my coco, and the little microscopic bastards make there way up the foliage. And create webbing to set up for their next stage of life(cocoon?). Its really terrible because unlike spider mites this webbing covers each calyx on the flowers really tightly. Making it almost impossible to even notice that there is webbing. Also had some minor holes showing up on the leaves. 

Will still post a couple pics in this thread. I was so sure it was caterpillar from moth.


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## jbcCT (Oct 3, 2017)

It just seems like worms is part & parcel with outdoor growing. Im in the process of chopping down and I am finding the occasional tiny worm. I'm talking real small, like half the length of a pinkie fingernail. I'm cutting out the affected areas & washing all the bud with a peroxide mix, then clean water.

I'm assuming an airborne fly of some sort might lay the egg for these things to get in there. They are real tiny so the damage can be disposed of.


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## jbcCT (Oct 3, 2017)

It's just a bitch cause I literally have to get into each bud I'm trimming to look for these things, I obviously don't want contaminated product.


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## jbcCT (Oct 3, 2017)

I've read various threads, where you go into cure and the worm will then parachute down on a string of silk, have had that happen too. It's too late when that happens. That means it was in there shitting and the bud is contaminated.

You need to cut out the afflicted area when you trim before you cure.

Also, washing your bud will not hurt the product. You want a clean sterile product. Trim, debug, dunk in peroxide water mix, final rinse, hang. I've found dead flies in my water solution after, you don't want that in your smoke either. I'm of the opinion washing outdoor bud is a MUST.


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## Chunky Stool (Oct 3, 2017)

jbcCT said:


> I've read various threads, where you go into cure and the worm will then parachute down on a string of silk, have had that happen too. It's too late when that happens. That means it was in there shitting and the bud is contaminated.
> 
> You need to cut out the afflicted area when you trim before you cure.
> 
> Also, washing your bud will not hurt the product. You want a clean sterile product. Trim, debug, dunk in peroxide water mix, final rinse, hang. I've found dead flies in my water solution after, you don't want that in your smoke either. I'm of the opinion washing outdoor bud is a MUST.


Washing is good, and it's also important to inspect your bud thoroughly. I've lost *way* more bud to rot than bugs. 
I've chopped 4 and still have 7 to go. Two of them are 6-footers. 
Pretty sure I've got carpal tunnel syndrome, or I'll have it soon. Gotta find some gloves that fit over my wrist brace.


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## Dreadfully dank dd (Oct 4, 2017)

I'm about to harvest my first plant this morning. As its my first time i welcome your opinions.


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## grantbuk (Oct 4, 2017)

damaged buds could really make things worse if not properly taken car of


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## SageFromZen (Oct 6, 2017)

"I've read various threads, where you go into cure and the worm will then parachute down on a string of silk"...

Dude, you nailed it. I've caught a few silk-line parachuters myself after about a week of drying time. Two teeny tiny worms that the sunlight coming in the door just happened to light them up otherwise I'd not seen them. My second plant to come down saw a few as well while alive and upright. Same scenario; after about a week of drying time I caught one 3/4 inch worm hanging about a foot below one of my colas so I've ribboned that branch to check for damage whence trimming.


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## jbcCT (Oct 7, 2017)

SageFromZen said:


> "I've read various threads, where you go into cure and the worm will then parachute down on a string of silk"...
> 
> Dude, you nailed it. I've caught a few silk-line parachuters myself after about a week of drying time. Two teeny tiny worms that the sunlight coming in the door just happened to light them up otherwise I'd not seen them. My second plant to come down saw a few as well while alive and upright. Same scenario; after about a week of drying time I caught one 3/4 inch worm hanging about a foot below one of my colas so I've ribboned that branch to check for damage whence trimming.


You know exactly what I'm talking about. I've got ZERO rot this year but I'm gonna lose 25% to worms. Pisses me off.

I'm near completion on the takedown. I'm literally combing through each bud, digging in, extracting the teeney tiny worm, cutting out that section and washing. I'm having to pull open bud sections for thorough inspection. I still catch the occasional parachuter. They are so small. They haven't matured to even do any damage but it still grosses me out and I cut the entire section.


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## jbcCT (Oct 7, 2017)

I'm trying to catch them before cure. Once they parachute you can't tell where it came from.


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## jbcCT (Oct 7, 2017)

Yeah so I guess it's the white moth laying these eggs. I'm gonna f***ing nuke my yard next season. I'm gonna lay so much poison no moth will dare enter. Jokes aside I don't now how you fully prevent the worm outdoors.


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## jbcCT (Oct 7, 2017)

I literally spayed my yard this year with so much bug juice, so frequently I could sit outside at night and not one single mosquito ever but me, bit I couldn't stop a dam moth. When I spray the shit you could see them fly out the grass trying to escape.


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## jbcCT (Oct 7, 2017)

Dreadfully dank dd said:


> I'm about to harvest my first plant this morning. As its my first time i welcome your opinions.View attachment 4021399 View attachment 4021400


I think if that's your first harvest you did a hell of a job. You finished. Welcome to the 15% club. Cause the other 85% kill their plants.


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## too larry (Oct 7, 2017)

jbcCT said:


> I literally spayed my yard this year with so much bug juice, so frequently I could sit outside at night and not one single mosquito ever but me, bit I couldn't stop a dam moth. When I spray the shit you could see them fly out the grass trying to escape.


The Mendo Dope boys use a bug zapper to cut down on moths. If you are growing in your yard, you might want to look into that.


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## too larry (Oct 7, 2017)

jbcCT said:


> You know exactly what I'm talking about. I've got ZERO rot this year but I'm gonna lose 25% to worms. Pisses me off.


I am 180 degrees from you. I have only seen a few really small worms, but I have had to chop lots of plants due to rot this year. It rained just about everyday this summer, so there was that.


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## jbcCT (Oct 7, 2017)

Dreadfully dank dd said:


> I have a personal war with spider mites and white spiders in general. I dont want to imagine the sick feeling one gets at the discovery of infestation.
> On another note...
> I have found myself, this evening, lying in the hammock among my garden looking at tonights pictures of the plants and giggling. And giggling. I am so pleased with myself and the outcome (almost) of my first grow that im giddy. I think im hooked. I never want to stop. I cant be the only one to get this excited about growing.


Congrats. Looks like you got the nutrients & water right. Looks like high on the nitro but I'm nuke man myself, I torch em just below point of leaf burn. On $100 bucks in seeds this year I'm multi pound. Love outdoor.


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## jbcCT (Oct 7, 2017)

too larry said:


> I am 180 degrees from you. I have only seen a few really small worms, but I have had to chop lots of plants due to rot this year. It rained just about everyday this summer, so there was that.


Yeah that's us outdoors. Fighting that good fight. Different parts of U.S diff problems same game.

Connecticut summer this year, very little rain, cool temps. Shit October we're dry and low 80's, which blessed me, they got a way from me a little, working two jobs.....

But after all they don't really need me, few cuts, little dis little dat......


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## SageFromZen (Oct 8, 2017)

Instead of emblazoning your growing space with a toxic cloud try spraying your plants with BT from mid-veg through early bloom. I myself have only learned of this recently and am trying it on my crucifereous vegetables and I'm not seeing pincher bugs so I think there may some validity to the BT thing. Another fail-safe that I like to do every season is to dab Tanglefoot all around the base of each of my plants. Just above the cork line. Stops any and all crawlies and slimers from coming up your stalk and wreaking havoc.


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## gg2 (Oct 8, 2017)

Dan Nabis said:


> I think I would dry those worms out and crush em up into a bowl and puff away.


WORM IN THE TEQUILLA OH YEA


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## Chunky Stool (Oct 8, 2017)

SageFromZen said:


> Instead of emblazoning your growing space with a toxic cloud try spraying your plants with BT from mid-veg through early bloom. I myself have only learned of this recently and am trying it on my crucifereous vegetables and I'm not seeing pincher bugs so I think there may some validity to the BT thing. Another fail-safe that I like to do every season is to dab Tanglefoot all around the base of each of my plants. Just above the cork line. Stops any and all crawlies and slimers from coming up your stalk and wreaking havoc.


When bugs are really bad outside, I religiously spray a deterrent on the soil & trunk after every feeding. My favorite is a 50/50 mix of Monterey spinosad + Natural Guard insecticidal soap.


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## Warpedpassage (Oct 9, 2017)

Alright folks, as promised.

I thought this was from a a caterpiller but now i think its some sort of larvae from some fly. There were virtually no visible pests,and practically no real damage to foliage. Found one single fly at 8 weeks of flower. Picture of the fly to follow as well. No spider mites were observed, nor their telltale damage signs. 

At harvest most flowers looks great, but when breaking apart the bud you see what looks like very fine webbing. 


This is apicture a piece i submerged in water for a couple hours. The amber coloring appeared after submerging.

In this pic you can kind of see that the "webbing" is resting on top of the trichome heads. This was from a plant 3 wks into flower.


View attachment 4024002


In this picture you can see this substance beginning to encompass each calyx. With a vigourous flowering plant, calyxs will continue to stack, creating what looks like webbing inside the buds.


View attachment 4024003
Next few are from dried flowers.

View attachment 4024004



View attachment 4024005 View attachment 4024006

These were from a live plant.


View attachment 4024007 View attachment 4024008


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## Reeves (Jan 18, 2018)

That's one of the reasons why Im growing in a greenhouse no pests at all. My last outdoor was infested as funk 

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Rollitup mobile app


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## Dreadfully dank dd (Jan 18, 2018)

I ended up harvesting and they turned out ok...some good, some meh. I took the ones in veg inside but I have gnats now. How can I get rid of them?


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## Budley Doright (Jan 19, 2018)

Dreadfully dank dd said:


> I ended up harvesting and they turned out ok...some good, some meh. I took the ones in veg inside but I have gnats now. How can I get rid of them?


Try mosquito dunks disolved in water and use that to water the girls. I have not tried it but tried everything else, I've read they work well. I got so frustrated with the little fuckers I switched to hydro.... thank you gnats lol.


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## medicman69 (Feb 8, 2018)

Dreadfully dank dd said:


> I ended up harvesting and they turned out ok...some good, some meh. I took the ones in veg inside but I have gnats now. How can I get rid of them?


Gnat nix works great.


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## Chunky Stool (Feb 11, 2018)

medicman69 said:


> Gnat nix works great.


It does!
Mosquito bits work well for me. Same ingredient as dunks. If you don't want those little pieces of cork in your nutes you can get a liquid concentrate. 
I've used Microbe-Lift BMC in the past and it worked great. Only takes 4 drops to treat 5 gallons. 
https://www.123ponds.com/elbmc6.html


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## Sir Napsalot (Mar 2, 2018)

too larry said:


> The Mendo Dope boys use a bug zapper to cut down on moths. If you are growing in your yard, you might want to look into that.


I used a bug zapper last year and it did seem to help- there were a pile of dead moths underneath it anyway


----------



## ofound (Mar 4, 2018)

2017 was my second season growing outdoor. 2016, I had serious moth/caterpillar infestations that led to low yields. So, for 2017 I bought trichogramma eggs from Amazon. These little guys seemed to do the trick. Though the moths were still present and laying eggs, the trichogramma mostly got to them before anything hatched. By the time my seedlings go into the ground this year, if I don't see any trichogramma buzzing around, hunting moth eggs, I'll be re-ordering.


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## Caosred (Jun 5, 2018)

KushKing949 said:


> i hate them bastards i have to go out into my garden every morning with latex gloves and tweasers and pick the fuckers outta my sweet smelling buds and clean up the mess they made if that means chopping and throwing away buds i also find tons of eggs as well and fuck its just so many..good thing i got alot of colas that arent infested yet im not afraid to dig into my sticky buds to make sure they are clean this is my first grow and i will be prepared for em next yr.


Same here bro lil fucks


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## Fourtwentysmokinplenty (Jul 4, 2018)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


I would be plucking those bastards off all day long if those were my girls then i would neem her up, too bad it's so far into flower any sprays would probably be a bad idea at this point


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## too larry (Jul 6, 2018)

Fourtwentysmokinplenty said:


> I would be plucking those bastards off all day long if those were my girls then i would neem her up, too bad it's so far into flower any sprays would probably be a bad idea at this point


BT is not harmful to the plant or to humans. It can be used on harvest day if need be. Lots of choices, but I got this off Amazon last week.

https://www.amazon.com/Monterey-704596-Caterpillar-Killer-Pesticide/dp/B00ANT611U/ref=asc_df_B00ANT611U/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167116476898&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11337629440816734651&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9011625&hvtargid=pla-309961191261&psc=1


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## SCJedi (Aug 6, 2018)

Bacillus thuringiensis and essential oil sprays.


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## jbcCT (Aug 12, 2018)

So I broke down this year for the first time and bought the Monterey BT. Now able to launch two pronged attack. Once a week treatment of entire growing area; literally watching the moths flop and die. Can't get them all though. I just sorted out the males, final count is in. First treatment of BT a week and a half into flower. 

I like a clean product. Outdoor your naturally going to pick up dust, nats, flies, worms etc. I do a peroxide/ water rinse while trimming and it's come down to surgically going through every bud for worms. Part of the process for me anyhow. Curious to see if I can reduce the damage the worms do. Never had an infestation per say, but they have spoil some nice bud the previous two summers. I just installed a zapper as well on the advice of a previous mendo post. Shit who knows better than those boys....


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## jbcCT (Aug 12, 2018)

Stuff seems potent. Less than a teaspoon for a 600 -700 mill hand sprayer. 4 teaspoons on the gallon. I can even spray it using a hose attachment sprayer. Smells fairly bad but diluted not so much.

Don't like spraying anything on my plants but this seems to be the least harmful thing out there.


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## too larry (Aug 12, 2018)

jbcCT said:


> Stuff seems potent. Less than a teaspoon for a 600 -700 mill hand sprayer. 4 teaspoons on the gallon. I can even spray it using a hose attachment sprayer. Smells fairly bad but diluted not so much.
> 
> Don't like spraying anything on my plants but this seems to be the least harmful thing out there.


I sprayed all my flowering herb twice so far, a week apart. Have not seen any worms, so waiting to spray again until I spot some.


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## jbcCT (Aug 12, 2018)

too larry said:


> BT is not harmful to the plant or to humans. It can be used on harvest day if need be. Lots of choices, but I got this off Amazon last week.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Monterey-704596-Caterpillar-Killer-Pesticide/dp/B00ANT611U/ref=asc_df_B00ANT611U/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167116476898&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11337629440816734651&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9011625&hvtargid=pla-309961191261&psc=1


I've seen a few photos on the internet, videos as well of that neem oil. People showing examples of it drying out the foilage. Don't think I'd want that stuff on my plants.


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## too larry (Aug 12, 2018)

I did find one worm when I took the early Ass Cheese f2 down.


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## jbcCT (Aug 12, 2018)

too larry said:


> I sprayed all my flowering herb twice so far, a week apart. Have not seen any worms, so waiting to spray again until I spot some.


Does it impact the foliage in any way that you can tell? That was my only concern with this stuff only cause it's my time using it.


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## too larry (Aug 12, 2018)

jbcCT said:


> I've seen a few photos on the internet, videos as well of that neem oil. People showing examples of it drying out the foilage. Don't think I'd want that stuff on my plants.


If you mix it right it does no harm in veg. The smell is shit for flowers. And it will cause problems with flowering too, or so I have heard.


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## jbcCT (Aug 12, 2018)

too larry said:


> I did find one worm when I took the early Ass Cheese f2 down.


Dam I'm not going to finish until October. I'm jealous. I can't even really run any sativa doms, just too dam short up here.....


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## too larry (Aug 12, 2018)

jbcCT said:


> Does it impact the foliage in any way that you can tell? That was my only concern with this stuff only cause it's my time using it.


I tested it on my tomatoes first. No signs of adverse effects there so I sprayed my flowering plants. I only get out to the bush once a week, but they looked fine when I went back a week later.


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## too larry (Aug 12, 2018)

jbcCT said:


> Dam I'm not going to finish until October. I'm jealous. I can't even really run any sativa doms, just too dam short up here.....


The Ass Cheese f1's were not like that. But the tall pheno of the f2's was budding in late May. It and the Ass Cheese Blues started about the same time. Both had to come down due to bud rot, but were over 8 weeks when I took them.


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## jbcCT (Aug 12, 2018)

too larry said:


> If you mix it right it does no harm in veg. The smell is shit for flowers. And it will cause problems with flowering too, or so I have heard.


That's exactly what I was afraid of. I did a fine mist, properly diluted. Hopefully I didn't fuck up. Never had a problem in veg. Was under the impression two treatments tops, one at the start of flower, one on developing bud. Am I off here?


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## too larry (Aug 12, 2018)

And my early shit/skunk crosses are all rotting in the daily rains. I've got some of my sativa crosses I just sprouted last month to cross all that with. If it continues to flower in June and July, it is no use to me.


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## jbcCT (Aug 12, 2018)

too larry said:


> I tested it on my tomatoes first. No signs of adverse effects there so I sprayed my flowering plants. I only get out to the bush once a week, but they looked fine when I went back a week later.


Ain't that something. Did my tomatoes first as a test, I lost a lot of those last year too though. Worms have no issue getting right through the skin.


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## too larry (Aug 12, 2018)

jbcCT said:


> That's exactly what I was afraid of. I did a fine mist, properly diluted. Hopefully I didn't fuck up. Never had a problem in veg. Was under the impression two treatments tops, one at the start of flower, one on developing bud. Am I off here?


I've heard you can spray until week 2 of flower. That is about as far as I've taken it. Well, not exactly true. I have bag seed tester strains named Peach and Rotten Stinking Bastard. Both were wrapped up in bud worms, so I did spray later into flower. I did effect taste some, but I washed it good before drying.

I ended up losing most of those plants anyway.


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## jbcCT (Aug 12, 2018)

too larry said:


> I've heard you can spray until week 2 of flower. That is about as far as I've taken it. Well, not exactly true. I have bag seed tester strains named Peach and Rotten Stinking Bastard. Both were wrapped up in bud worms, so I did spray later into flower. I did effect taste some, but I washed it good before drying.
> 
> I ended up losing most of those plants anyway.


I appreciate the feedback. Like I said I dont like spraying anything on them. Maybe I'll just leave it at a one time spray.

I'm less is more guy on everything. Less water, least amount of nutrients. I can always do more of something if I need to and this approach has never failed. I can even get them out of rain fairly quickly.


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## too larry (Aug 12, 2018)

jbcCT said:


> I appreciate the feedback. Like I said I dont like spraying anything on them. Maybe I'll just leave it at a one time spray.
> 
> I'm less is more guy on everything. Less water, least amount of nutrients. I can always do more of something if I need to and this approach has never failed. I can even get them out of rain fairly quickly.


I call some of my patches Darwin Dope. It's survival of the dankest. lol When it rains, I just carry enough water to deliver food. I don't use a lot of added ferts either. I try to make my soil mix hot enough to get me through to flower with only small amounts of 11-2-1 veg food, then I scratch in some 2-10-10.

I never did any IPM before I ran the bag seed testers. I had always grown local strains, which are sativa leaners. They never had bud rot or worm issues. But the BST's were big and sticky buds, and they were loaded with worms. Now I spray neem once a week in veg. 

My main problem is my length of day. I'm in NW Florida, and my longest day is 14 hours 7 minutes. When my buddies send me strains used to longer light hours {in the northern legal states}, they all flower in the summertime, when it rains everyday.


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## vino4russ (Aug 12, 2018)

BT just smells so bad though.


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## too larry (Aug 12, 2018)

vino4russ said:


> BT just smells so bad though.


That is why I'm holding off until I see worms. If the neem did it's work, maybe I can get through without it.


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## vino4russ (Aug 12, 2018)

I'm trying Dr Earth final stop vegetable bug spray. It kills caterpillars and is non toxic.


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## too larry (Aug 12, 2018)

vino4russ said:


> I'm trying Dr Earth final stop vegetable bug spray. It kills caterpillars and is non toxic.


Thanks, I will look into that.


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## jbcCT (Aug 14, 2018)

Just wanted to report BT is totally safe for the plants. No impact to foliage or flowering. I'm doing a 2nd treatment tomorrow.

Dilute it properly or over dilute to play it safe. Will report back at harvest on, see how good it takes care of worms & what not....


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## Chef420 (Aug 14, 2018)

There’s a product called Dr. Zymes. The wonderful thing about this one is that it’s citric acid based and completely non toxic. You can vary the concentrations for different purposes. 

http://doctorzymes.com/mo/index.html

Ive also used method 1 PPS with some success in flower for PM. Seems to work well as an IPM in veg for a multitude of issues.


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## SCJedi (Aug 16, 2018)

Just found my first one and sprayed with BT.


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## vino4russ (Aug 16, 2018)

SCJedi said:


> Just found my first one and sprayed with BT. View attachment 4181799


Bastards ....!


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## marcospartida (Aug 17, 2018)

I spray everyweek i loose about a half oz or an 8th every year.. Nothing at all..i use BT ..Neighboor looses whole ones he doesn't spray he tries to hand pick them out .Not gonna work..Smell goes away quick ..I sprayed yesterday today I didn't smell nothing they loved it..I soaked them..


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## See green (Aug 17, 2018)

Same here, BT is wonderful!! My experience is it must be used well before you even see them.Before I started using it I lost every single top to those little worms..smh


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## marcospartida (Aug 17, 2018)

See green said:


> Same here, BT is wonderful!! My experience is it must be used well before you even see them.Before I started using it I lost every single top to those little worms..smh


Facts ..Its a must in my book


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## SCJedi (Aug 17, 2018)

The day before I found the worm was my weekly IPM spray. This is Karanja, Neem, KSil, Pyganic, aloe flakes, soap, and about 10ml of a variety of three essential oils (cinnamon, peppermint, clove, eucalyptus, citronella, blah blah blah depending on how I feel)

Compared to my IPM (or even my weekly AACT drench) I will state that BT has no odor.


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## marcospartida (Aug 17, 2018)

vino4russ said:


> BT just smells so bad though.


I love it..its the smell of dying Worms


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## jbcCT (Aug 18, 2018)

I've read a few posts in this extremely long thread, about people spraying BT on fully developed buds. I'm not sure that is a worthwhile endeavor.

Worms tend to nestle inside the bud, close to the stem, around the nodes.

I'm thinking the best time for application is pre flower, and the first 30 days of flowering.


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## kindnug (Aug 18, 2018)

jbcCT said:


> I've read a few posts in this extremely long thread, about people spraying BT on fully developed buds. I'm not sure that is a worthwhile endeavor.
> 
> Worms tend to nestle inside the bud, close to the stem, around the nodes.
> 
> I'm thinking the best time for application is pre flower, and the first 30 days of flowering.


Shouldn't have fully developed buds this time of year, unless growing autos...
This is the first month of flower, perfect time for Bt IMO.

It says to use before or @ first sign of caterpillars, once they burrow all the way to the stem it's going to cause bud-rot anyway.


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## too larry (Aug 18, 2018)

kindnug said:


> Shouldn't have fully developed buds this time of year, unless growing autos.... . . . .


Or your genetics isn't used to the short ass days in the south. I've only found one worm this year, but had to chop several already for bud rot. Almost everyday for the last 2 months my 10 day forecast has said 10 days of possible rain. Heavy rain and sticky buds don't go well together.


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## Baja.Beaches (Aug 19, 2018)

Is anyone using a Dynatrap for worm control?

An outdoor grower I know in No Cal. kept raving on his DynaTrap & how much it had helped with the worms. I was skeptical but after many years of battle I was ready to try anything. They are not cheap, but I watched the you tube videos & finally put one out in the spring.

It’s a trap, not a zapper. The amount of moths that thing has caught is impressive. I see the evidence so it has to be helping. I skipped spraying at all so far as a test. Worms are still here but way less than any other year, when I had been spraying. I did not like spraying, it was not all the effective in flower & brought plenty of its own issues.

They also advertise to also attract mosquitoes. Yeah right. I thought nothing works on mosquitoes but I haven’t been bit this year so far, I am still deciding but I think this Dynatrap is helping a lot. The worms are still around & August is not done but so far I am encouraged. I’ll report back in a couple more months.


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## Muzzle2 (Aug 20, 2018)

I didn't pay attention to my auto and during the drying stage I noticed budworms all over my buds. Trashed the whole crop. Was about an oz or so. I have another one growing that was right next to it outside. It started flowering last week and the flowers are probably half inch to inch. Just got BT today. Thinking about soaking them up. Is it too late? The buds are just starting and they're pretty small. The tree is about 4.5 feet.


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## Muzzle2 (Aug 21, 2018)

Will BT help at this age? I see some black dots on leaves and only 1 leaf with holes.


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## jbcCT (Aug 23, 2018)

Muzzle2 said:


> I didn't pay attention to my auto and during the drying stage I noticed budworms all over my buds. Trashed the whole crop. Was about an oz or so. I have another one growing that was right next to it outside. It started flowering last week and the flowers are probably half inch to inch. Just got BT today. Thinking about soaking them up. Is it too late? The buds are just starting and they're pretty small. The tree is about 4.5 feet.


No, it's not too late if the plant is just starting to flower or a few weeks into flower. I believe that's the best time to spray. I'm of the belief that spraying this stuff on fully formed buds is pointless. The worms hang out in the buds near the nodes.

I also spray pesticides around my entire grow patch weekly through the entire summer. The moths hide in the grass. I kill as many as humanly possible as well as other insects. I believe this is key in many regions growing outdoors. You have to go after the moths. Electric zapper away from patch as well on advice from another poster.

BT is my last line of defense. Keep in mind as well the worm has to consume the product in order for it to work.


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## jbcCT (Aug 23, 2018)

Baja.Beaches said:


> Is anyone using a Dynatrap for worm control?
> 
> An outdoor grower I know in No Cal. kept raving on his DynaTrap & how much it had helped with the worms. I was skeptical but after many years of battle I was ready to try anything. They are not cheap, but I watched the you tube videos & finally put one out in the spring.
> 
> ...


Never heard of it. Since its a trap, does it use some sort of pheromones to attract?

If so, like the Japanese beetle traps I've heard it can turn your spot into a magnet, attracting more than would naturally exit. If used they say to keep them far enough away from the grow to not lead them to the plants.

Ever use pesticides to attack the moths?


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## jbcCT (Aug 23, 2018)

too larry said:


> I call some of my patches Darwin Dope. It's survival of the dankest. lol When it rains, I just carry enough water to deliver food. I don't use a lot of added ferts either. I try to make my soil mix hot enough to get me through to flower with only small amounts of 11-2-1 veg food, then I scratch in some 2-10-10.
> 
> I never did any IPM before I ran the bag seed testers. I had always grown local strains, which are sativa leaners. They never had bud rot or worm issues. But the BST's were big and sticky buds, and they were loaded with worms. Now I spray neem once a week in veg.
> 
> My main problem is my length of day. I'm in NW Florida, and my longest day is 14 hours 7 minutes. When my buddies send me strains used to longer light hours {in the northern legal states}, they all flower in the summertime, when it rains everyday.


I'm like you. I make mine hot enough though to get me from seedling to end of veg. I add a dash of low mag mid way through veg. Cal mag em' through flower and that's it. 

I'm really looking forward to see if BT works. No sign of any worms yet but have seen the occasional moth which I'm constantly battling with pesticides. Trying to kill those fuckers before they lay that larvae.


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## jbcCT (Aug 23, 2018)

SCJedi said:


> Just found my first one and sprayed with BT. View attachment 4181799


You pick anymore off? BT the shit out of the entire grow.


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## OnefootintheGrave’ (Aug 23, 2018)

jbcCT said:


> I've read a few posts in this extremely long thread, about people spraying BT on fully developed buds. I'm not sure that is a worthwhile endeavor.
> 
> Worms tend to nestle inside the bud, close to the stem, around the nodes.
> 
> I'm thinking the best time for application is pre flower, and the first 30 days of flowering.



I would think the worms would have a snack on the trip up to bud mountain and have upset tummy before the could really damage buds. Lol


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## Baja.Beaches (Aug 24, 2018)

jbcCT said:


> Never heard of it. Since its a trap, does it use some sort of pheromones to attract?
> 
> If so, like the Japanese beetle traps I've heard it can turn your spot into a magnet, attracting more than would naturally exit. If used they say to keep them far enough away from the grow to not lead them to the plants.
> 
> Ever use pesticides to attack the moths?


Look at the Dynatrap videos on YouTube, it uses black light, & produces CO2 for the lure, instead of zapping them a strong fan sucks them into the trap. I am getting a whole LOT of moths but I need to update my opinion.

It is awesome & catches a whole lot of moths & other pests. It definitely reduced the worms BUT I was still getting some. I realize that it does not seem to work against the Pieris rapae, the imported small cabbage butterfly. In my urban area I have fought those suckers for years, but never quite got rid of them. Trichogramma seemed to help. Mrs. Beaches hates it tho.

So I guess its usefulness depends on the worm you are fighting. A total solution for my No Cal friends, but not for me in an urban area for moths, however I am happy with the mosquito control & still very glad to have it. My neighbors have thanked me.

Good to know the enemy tho, it’s war on the Pieris rapae. 

And yes I have used BT plenty but once those worms are in the bud not very effective for me & I did not like the smell. Your mileage may vary but once flowering it is tough. Just released more Trichogramma (don't tell my wife). This is war.


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## SCJedi (Aug 24, 2018)

jbcCT said:


> You pick anymore off? BT the shit out of the entire grow.


Oh trust me, I sprayed the F^&* out of everything. I soaked is all. I'm on the war path with BT and Flying Skull now.


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## jbcCT (Aug 24, 2018)

Son of a bitch. Look what I found on my 7 footer. I hate these fucking things and I've been nuking my patch with pestices.


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## jbcCT (Aug 24, 2018)

25 minute visual inspection, no other worms found. Now's the time, they like to sneak into a developing flower and have a party at my expense. Another round of BT after Sun down. Lay some more napalm around my patch and carry on the good fight....


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## See green (Aug 24, 2018)

Spinosad also works very well at killing the worms and it is certified for organic gardening too. I have actually seen them dropping dead off my plants.


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## jbcCT (Aug 27, 2018)

Few more visual inspections and nothing. Buds are starting to swell and frost. Which means the old eyeball becomes pointless. One final BT mist planned for mid week. 

I did my tomatoes this year. The worm can penetrate the thin tipe skin easily. Lost 90% of my tomatoes last year. Not a single mark on any of them after heavy BT sprays this year. Hope it works as well on the bud.


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## jbcCT (Aug 27, 2018)

Baja.Beaches said:


> Look at the Dynatrap videos on YouTube, it uses black light, & produces CO2 for the lure, instead of zapping them a strong fan sucks them into the trap. I am getting a whole LOT of moths but I need to update my opinion.
> 
> It is awesome & catches a whole lot of moths & other pests. It definitely reduced the worms BUT I was still getting some. I realize that it does not seem to work against the Pieris rapae, the imported small cabbage butterfly. In my urban area I have fought those suckers for years, but never quite got rid of them. Trichogramma seemed to help. Mrs. Beaches hates it tho.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the tips on the dynatrap, I'm always looking for another weapon to add to the aresenal.

What surrounds your grow? Grass, weeds, brush, neither? I know your a moth killer like I am. In my area they hide in the grass to escape heat, direct sun. I've had good success nuking the grass with pesticides weekly this year.

The worst part of worms is yeah they fuck up bud, but then it triples my trim time cause I'm paranoid like that. Thus having to inspect every branch & bud for the pest.


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## Edwardo Ruffian (Aug 28, 2018)

SCJedi said:


> Oh trust me, I sprayed the F^&* out of everything. I soaked is all. I'm on the war path with BT and Flying Skull now.


Im really starting to freak out. I inspect my plants very thoroughly couple times a day (under control aphid issue) and have not seen worms or any signs of worms. The reason I'm worried is the veggie garden that is 10' away has loads of the 2 spotted moth flying around and laying eggs on the cabbage, kale, and broccoli. Plenty of worm damage on those plants, could planting attractant veggies near the cannabis garden keep the plants safe?


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## forestabri (Aug 29, 2018)

Has anyone tried screening your plants? I bought a zipper screen bag thing online. The big plant I used it with is doing fine, but ALL of my left over clones I put outside to finish have worms. I just sprayed them with spinosad, but they are sour diesels so they have until mid-october to finish, so I'm hoping they make it. 

The one drawback to screening is that it decreases the light intensity a bit, but it is very hot where I live so that's kinda ok. I had this problem last year too. I was spraying every week with spinosad but I stopped when they started flowering. I guess I should have kept spraying. Oh well, this is only my second year seriously trying to do this, so live and learn.


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## Baja.Beaches (Aug 30, 2018)

jbcCT said:


> What surrounds your grow? Grass, weeds, brush, neither? I know your a moth killer like I am. In my area they hide in the grass to escape heat, direct sun. I've had good success nuking the grass with pesticides weekly this year.


I am on a canyon rim so there is a whole lot that it out of my control. Been fighting worms in the same spot over 25 years with limited success. I admit I am overly paranoid about sprays, which have issues as well. Have lost crops due to reactions to sprays so I keep trying for prevention, but dang it is tough. I gave up a few days ago & sprayed BT, don't like to spray flowers but I had to do something.

So I have been working on knowing the enemy, mine is Pieris rapae, the imported small white cabbage butterfly. A butterfly technically so moth tactics don’t work. Bummer because the Dynatrap cleaned house on moths.

Ever notice how the mostly target your dankest plants? I had some blueberry muffin smelling plants in the same space, they were mostly worm free. While my dankest ones were infested. Why?

They appear to recognize the presence of glucosinolates, allowing it to identify the host plant. Glucosinolates are natural components of many pungent plants & that is what the small whites target.



Edwardo Ruffian said:


> Plenty of worm damage on those plants, could planting attractant veggies near the cannabis garden keep the plants safe?


I have been thinking of the same thing, planting decoy cruciferous. Not too close but close enough kinda late for this year but my plan for next.


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## Baja.Beaches (Aug 30, 2018)

forestabri said:


> Has anyone tried screening your plants?


That idea occurred to me too, I bought a mosquito net for sleeping as a test cover. So far it seems to be working but it's kind of a pain in the butt to work with. Maybe a pollination cage for the whole crop next year or build a maybe make a frame for the net..


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## too larry (Sep 1, 2018)

forestabri said:


> Has anyone tried screening your plants? I bought a zipper screen bag thing online. The big plant I used it with is doing fine, but ALL of my left over clones I put outside to finish have worms. I just sprayed them with spinosad, but they are sour diesels so they have until mid-october to finish, so I'm hoping they make it.
> 
> The one drawback to screening is that it decreases the light intensity a bit, but it is very hot where I live so that's kinda ok. I had this problem last year too. I was spraying every week with spinosad but I stopped when they started flowering. I guess I should have kept spraying. Oh well, this is only my second year seriously trying to do this, so live and learn.


Some of the greenhouse growers use screen. It doesn't add that much cost and will save you some heart ache.


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## dphresh (Sep 2, 2018)

forestabri said:


> Has anyone tried screening your plants? I bought a zipper screen bag thing online. The big plant I used it with is doing fine, but ALL of my left over clones I put outside to finish have worms. I just sprayed them with spinosad, but they are sour diesels so they have until mid-october to finish, so I'm hoping they make it.
> 
> The one drawback to screening is that it decreases the light intensity a bit, but it is very hot where I live so that's kinda ok. I had this problem last year too. I was spraying every week with spinosad but I stopped when they started flowering. I guess I should have kept spraying. Oh well, this is only my second year seriously trying to do this, so live and learn.


I built a screened in planter earlier this year. It has kept the pests out. The other big drawback is the greenhouse effect. The plants in the image got heat stressed when we had record highs a few weeks ago (mid 90s near the beach). I was out of town and yeah.. it was bad. I have a fan in it now and it's only gotten a few degrees f higher than outside, but we haven't had any more 90+ f days here either. I'm hoping it'll be fine with some ventilation.


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## See green (Sep 3, 2018)

little shits found about 6 this morning. They must have just hatched.


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## Muzzle2 (Sep 11, 2018)

I'm going crazy one day I have nice white hairs. The next I have dried brown hairs. I've soaked the plants with BT maybe 2 - 3 times in 2 - 3 weeks. I've also used neem oil one time. I've noticed my buds smell great, but all my white hairs are turning brown. The plant is not fulling budding and it's been almost 1 month. It's taking a very long time. Today I found a bunch of eggs and dead white worms most likely from the BT. However, I am trying to figure out how to get my buds to flourish like they were before I started spraying. Any ideas? Is it from the spray? I've fed it Flora Nova Bloom a few times. I water once a day. The only things that i've noticed were dead white celled worms, and a bunch of eggs. Do I have ANY chance to keep this baby girl?


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## Muzzle2 (Sep 11, 2018)

Here are some more pictures...

HELP!


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## jbcCT (Sep 12, 2018)

Edwardo Ruffian said:


> Im really starting to freak out. I inspect my plants very thoroughly couple times a day (under control aphid issue) and have not seen worms or any signs of worms. The reason I'm worried is the veggie garden that is 10' away has loads of the 2 spotted moth flying around and laying eggs on the cabbage, kale, and broccoli. Plenty of worm damage on those plants, could planting attractant veggies near the cannabis garden keep the plants safe?


I know the feeling. Growing outdoors for a few years now I've come to learn the worms are just unavoidable. I run crazy counter measures on these things and you still gonna find a few. Thing is, your not always going to see them as the burrow into the bud.

I read an article the other day that testing labs in legal states are finding pesticides in many test samples. I'm not willing to spray that stuff on my plants. Short of that it's gonna happen.


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## jbcCT (Sep 12, 2018)

Muzzle2 said:


> I'm going crazy one day I have nice white hairs. The next I have dried brown hairs. I've soaked the plants with BT maybe 2 - 3 times in 2 - 3 weeks. I've also used neem oil one time. I've noticed my buds smell great, but all my white hairs are turning brown. The plant is not fulling budding and it's been almost 1 month. It's taking a very long time. Today I found a bunch of eggs and dead white worms most likely from the BT. However, I am trying to figure out how to get my buds to flourish like they were before I started spraying. Any ideas? Is it from the spray? I've fed it Flora Nova Bloom a few times. I water once a day. The only things that i've noticed were dead white celled worms, and a bunch of eggs. Do I have ANY chance to keep this baby girl?


Your gonna have white hairs turn brown as you finish or from damage. Make sure the conditions are dry when you spray BT. When you harvest, your gonna need rubber gloves to thoroughly go through each bud and cut away the damage. With all outdoor bud I rinse completely with a diluted peroxide bucket of water before I hang to dry. Everyone who grows outside looses a little to the worms. That's the outdoor game.


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## jbcCT (Sep 12, 2018)

Edwardo Ruffian said:


> Im really starting to freak out. I inspect my plants very thoroughly couple times a day (under control aphid issue) and have not seen worms or any signs of worms. The reason I'm worried is the veggie garden that is 10' away has loads of the 2 spotted moth flying around and laying eggs on the cabbage, kale, and broccoli. Plenty of worm damage on those plants, could planting attractant veggies near the cannabis garden keep the plants safe?


Yeah it's safe but you have to spray the veggies with BT too.


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## jbcCT (Sep 12, 2018)

Baja.Beaches said:


> I am on a canyon rim so there is a whole lot that it out of my control. Been fighting worms in the same spot over 25 years with limited success. I admit I am overly paranoid about sprays, which have issues as well. Have lost crops due to reactions to sprays so I keep trying for prevention, but dang it is tough. I gave up a few days ago & sprayed BT, don't like to spray flowers but I had to do something.
> 
> So I have been working on knowing the enemy, mine is Pieris rapae, the imported small white cabbage butterfly. A butterfly technically so moth tactics don’t work. Bummer because the Dynatrap cleaned house on moths.
> 
> ...


I know exactly where your coming from. I'm to the point where I've excepted the fact worms are just part of the outdoor game. We do what we can and cut off the damage at harvest.


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## Baja.Beaches (Sep 12, 2018)

jbcCT said:


> I know exactly where your coming from. I'm to the point where I've excepted the fact worms are just part of the outdoor game. We do what we can and cut off the damage at harvest.


I used to wait until harvest to deal with the damage. I now clip the bud the minute I see the signs. Usually gets the worm too. Hate to do it but by the time you notice the worm is in the bud it is usually too late to save that bud, save the plant. Damaged buds go to hash. Those worms hide super well, many times they have crawled out after cutting it when I could not spot the worm even with the bud in my hand. Don't want my buds with worm stuff dead or alive.

Easier looking at your babies without the dead on them too. You are right though, part of the outdoor game. Grrrr...


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## jbcCT (Sep 12, 2018)

Baja.Beaches said:


> I used to wait until harvest to deal with the damage. I now clip the bud the minute I see the signs. Usually gets the worm too. Hate to do it but by the time you notice the worm is in the bud it is usually too late to save that bud, save the plant. Damaged buds go to hash. Those worms hide super well, many times they have crawled out after cutting it when I could not spot the worm even with the bud in my hand. Don't want my buds with worm stuff dead or alive.
> 
> Easier looking at your babies without the dead on them too. You are right though, part of the outdoor game. Grrrr...


You read my mind. I considered cutting it off the plant myself. I've only picked 3 or 4 small worms off the entire year. It hasn't gotten to the point where there is rot but I see a few suspect areas. I think cutting it off when it arises it a great idea.

The harvest takes so long now, because I'm going in with surgical gloves on the take down, having to inspect every bud, every layer for damage. I like a clean product, paranoid like that I guess.

It does suck, seeing any loss after the hard work and patience all summer. I've come to accept it's part of the outdoor game. I take a little solace in knowing us outdoors guys are all dealing with weather & worms trying to get to the end.


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## jbcCT (Sep 12, 2018)

Starting to doubt how effective BT really is. I don't like to soak them but finely mist, let dry and repeat.

Partly because your right. They stay tucked in the bud. They don't hang out off the bud as we know.


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## Edwardo Ruffian (Sep 12, 2018)

jbcCT said:


> Starting to doubt how effective BT really is. I don't like to soak them but finely mist, let dry and repeat.
> 
> Partly because your right. They stay tucked in the bud. They don't hang out off the bud as we know.


Hmm, pretty sure with bt you have to drench. The caterpillar has to eat leaf material with the bacteria on it.


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## Baja.Beaches (Sep 12, 2018)

jbcCT said:


> I've only picked 3 or 4 small worms off the entire year.


3 or 4 worms? You are really lucky. I'll bet I have picked at least 25, nearly all on the same plant. Of course my stinkiest prettiest girl which BTW has been sprayed with BT half dozen times.

BT is fine for veg or early flower, but those cabbage worms don't come in force until the plants gets stinky. Once they are in the bud there is not much you can do with it, clipping early before the whole bud dies off works best for me. What if BT did kill that worm...now you have a dead worm & its poop in a dying bud.

For me, if in full flower clipping right away is best.


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## kindnug (Sep 12, 2018)

Azamax 2-3 times(once a week) before flower begins
+Bt on them before the worms get there, as soon as flower starts or slightly before
Might have to re-apply Bt every 7-10days until the last 10-14 days during flower if they're bad all season


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## jbcCT (Sep 13, 2018)

Well boys fighting the good fight I see. Got home from work, did an inspection. Picked two off. They are really small at this point. Thoroughly sprayed with BT again. Had some rain recently. I f***ing hate bugs. The thing I mentioned about BT effectiveness; one they have to consume it, second it prevents them from eating but they could live on another week and like the other guy said, then you just have a dead worm in the bud.

I don't know man. F***ing bugs.


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## jbcCT (Sep 13, 2018)

Baja.Beaches said:


> 3 or 4 worms? You are really lucky. I'll bet I have picked at least 25, nearly all on the same plant. Of course my stinkiest prettiest girl which BTW has been sprayed with BT half dozen times.
> 
> BT is fine for veg or early flower, but those cabbage worms don't come in force until the plants gets stinky. Once they are in the bud there is not much you can do with it, clipping early before the whole bud dies off works best for me. What if BT did kill that worm...now you have a dead worm & its poop in a dying bud.
> 
> For me, if in full flower clipping right away is best.


Cant argue with this post. The man is right. From what I gather if your growing outdoors your going to lose a portion to the worms. Every. Single. Time.


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## Muzzle2 (Sep 14, 2018)

Any idea why this is happening to my WHOLE PLANT? The hairs dry and disappear. Makes no sense. I had long beautiful white hairs and all of a sudden they're NON stop drying out and disappearing. Along side some bug issues i'm having, but it's happening to the whole plant. Could it be from nutes? Should I trash the plant?


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## jbcCT (Sep 14, 2018)

Muzzle2 said:


> Any idea why this is happening to my WHOLE PLANT? The hairs dry and disappear. Makes no sense. I had long beautiful white hairs and all of a sudden they're NON stop drying out and disappearing. Along side some bug issues i'm having, but it's happening to the whole plant. Could it be from nutes? Should I trash the plant?


Can you put more pictures up? I would never trash the plant. It's resilient and maybe a portion of the flower can be rescued. Young bud worms will eat the hairs giving the top of the cola a bald look. From that pic it does not appear to be the case.


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## jbcCT (Sep 14, 2018)

As far as bud worms are concerned. I despise these little motherf**kers. I'm so f***ing pissed.


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## Edwardo Ruffian (Sep 15, 2018)

Muzzle2 said:


> Any idea why this is happening to my WHOLE PLANT? The hairs dry and disappear. Makes no sense. I had long beautiful white hairs and all of a sudden they're NON stop drying out and disappearing. Along side some bug issues i'm having, but it's happening to the whole plant. Could it be from nutes? Should I trash the plant?


Looks to me like you're in the home stretch. As the bud matures the pistils will die off and shrivel up. Followed by the calyx's swelling. The trichomes should (although I've heard that's not always the case with some varieties) continue their degradation and start turning amber.


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## too larry (Sep 15, 2018)

Up until yesterday, it was still raining everyday here. So my shit is rotting even without worms. But I saw a few brown buds on my Random Bud #5 X TPD a couple of days ago. When I snipped off the buds, they had little worms in them. I didn't have my BT in the pack, and it was getting dark anyway. I ended up giving the plant a pretty good haircut. Hate to do it, but I have lost several to meltdown this season. I went back yesterday and gave them all a good drench with BT.

#farmerlife


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## Gary123 (Sep 15, 2018)

Spiders and praying mantis work very well . I introduce a few mantis and caught up few spiders! Just do this every so often until you have them hanging out . Haven’t seen a bud worm since .


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## maui454 (Sep 22, 2018)

Found some of these fuckers, on one plant it's really close to being done the other two have about 4-5 weeks left,  damn. Should I just yank the one that's almost ready? All cloudy trichs with a few amber?


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## growslut (Sep 23, 2018)

If BT isn't working next year give Spinosad a try. Last year budworms devoured my garden. This year, after spraying Spinosad every 10 days through veg and flower I only lost 2 cola's to bud worms all season.


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## midiot (Oct 6, 2018)

Repeating much of what's here... (success?) story with only a few wigglers, in a humid grow.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/small-worms.975902/#post-14475905


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## jbcCT (Oct 28, 2018)

Some final thoughts on my first season using BT. Couple things in this thread I don't agree with wanted to share some thoughts on that.

First off, this product works very well. It eliminated 100% of any budworms I had. There are a few things though to maximize it's effect. First off is timing. In my neck of the woods, moths move in around mid July. Worms appear like clockwork first week of August. Get in tune with when these pests cycle in your area. During this period you want to apply the product every two days, early morning being the best time, as this is when worms feed most often. Proper dilution and really drench foliage and all growing or fully forming buds.

Been harvesting now for almost 3 weeks and not a single worm found, I go through my stuff with surgical gloves on doing the initial trim. 100% elimination.

This product will not impact the quality of your buds whatsoever. Which is awesome, as spraying anything is a concern. You can drench those white hairs & buds, it will not harm them at all. Spray early morning and the sun will burn off most of the product by days end. My buds are beautiful.

It has no impact and does not make your plants stink. The product smells bad in concentrate but proper dilution takes care of that. I wash my outdoor after initial trim anyway, cant imagine not washing my stuff before I hang it as I like a clean product.

So hopefully this helps the next guy who tries this for the first time. I had my doubts and worried about the impact to the plants that BT would have. So I was was pleasantly surprised to learn just how well it worked for myself.


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## bckpkrs (Oct 29, 2018)

First-time grower in Bay Area, CA; - I've read all 87 pages of this post and will NOT be asking "what is BT?"

We had a couple modest outdoor plants. We knew nothing about caterpillars until way too late. (We know now for next time, tho.) 

I was away for a month when my wife started noticing some buds dying and a friend who has grown a few times before came over and told her what was going on and to harvest ASAP. The plants were within a week or two so no worries there. But then she started finding a whole mess of caterpillars, and as stuff started to dry, they were coming out of the woodwork like rats out of a sinking ship.

So many beautiful top colas are laced with the little buggers droppings. Now that the buds are all dry and I'm back home, I'm trying to see if what can be salvaged. Looking with a loupe, If I see a dozen or so droppings it gets tossed. But if I see only 1 or 2, I try to clean and keep. But I have to assume there's gonna be some I miss, so I guess that gives rise to the old saying we had in college on the Mexican Brown Seed Weed, "That shit tastes like crap." I mean, having lived in Humboldt for a number of years, I can't imagine any big outdoor grower inspecting each and every bud like I've done for the last few days. I don't even want to think about how much sticky-stuff has been left on my rubber gloves peeling apart buds looking for droppings.

I have to assume at some point we've probably all unknowingly toked on a dry bug or it's droppings, so I'm not too worried about that; - but I'm wondering if there's anything that can be done with all those big beautiful colas that are pretty well littered with droppings? Is there any use trying to wash a big bud or three dozen after they've already dried? I don't want any mold rot, and we've been lucky not to have any because only the base of the plants was watered, so buds never got moisture. 

Are all those big pretty colas literally just trash can fodder and nothing to be done?


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## Mass Medicinals (Nov 1, 2018)

We had caterpillar in some of our buds. We are going to turn that stuff into hash for edibles.


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## A casual grower (Nov 11, 2018)

I myself notice it can happen from sept. 1st too november 15th-ish out here in cent.cali. thus year everything went extremly early starting from july1st-21st between 6 different plants/phenos dependong on transitional stretch time. 

Im not sure how much this would help some people but ive noticed a trend. Im not sure if the tobacco moth just hates cookies or loves fruity stuff. My rundown pf the past 4 grows to damage. 

-3years ago. 
4 sinsOG (bluepower x kosher kush) and 1 gdp x tangie s1 from a buddy. 
All suffered heavy damage

-2yrs
2x cookies and cream
3x bluepower 
2x sinsOG x ??? Seeds from last years keeper. 
The sins and BP took a beating, but the cookies and cream where hardly touched at all. The vanilla dom pheno take a slight hit but the cookie dom pheno didnt get hit at all. 

-Last years
Sinmint cookies (forum cut x bluepower) 5x all phenos showing cookie traights hard. 
No damage at all!

This year.
Dosimints (Dosido x sinmints) 5x
Plus one last sinsOG old bean i scuffed and got a fem. 

The 5 dosimints didnt see any damage at all! (heavy in forum cut and OGKB gas)The sins OG got fucking thrashed. 

My only conclusion i can point too are
1. They genuinly hate cookies
2. The heavily prefer zesty, citrus, berry, grape, etc flavored bud
3. Im just getting very lucky/unlucky(doubt now i did my last grow) 
Never used a single pesticide on my plants outside of a couple neem oil sorays during veg depending on damage caused. So anything like thats out of the question. Anyone else ever experiend similar results?
forum cut dom. No damage at all in the slightest
sins OG that got thrashed! justice...


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## jbcCT (Nov 13, 2018)

I'm telling you guys right now these little f**kers can be beat with just BT.

You have to start spraying as soon as buds start to form right through till the end of the season if necessary. When they hatch they are microscopic. You want that first bite to be the last.

You can soak the plants. One of my mistakes was worry that it would damage the bud but I was gonna lose it anyway. Next season I'll be on them early.

Moths were bad this year in the NE. Just got done taking the last down a week ago. Not a critter in the whole lot. No nasty paratroopers on the drying rack.....


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## Booyah! (Dec 17, 2018)

I totally agree. I had some mold issues when spraying just BT.

But when mixed with Serenade which contains a mold eating bacteria, the combo was incredible. No mold and no worms. Don't put anything else in there, but those two bacterias together play well together.

I'd mix them both in a 55gallon drum and use a paddle pump to spray down the plants top to bottom once a week.


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## jbcCT (Dec 17, 2018)

Great feedback in thread so far. Thanks to everyone whos contributed, recommended tips and tricks. This thread really solved this problem for me.

As far as doing stuff with with your product that's been contaminated with bud worms, like making hash or oil certainly won't kill you, lol. I just wouldn't wanna smoke any of that. I'm anal about my harvest. It's like I'm making wine for myself, friends & family. I just wouldn't want bugs and bug shit in my wine. That's just me though. I realize for some this is a $$$ endeavor and losing a whole crop is not an option, I get it.

I wash my stuff in buckets and go through everything with surgical gloves while I'm trimming. Nothing contaminated goes on my rack.

BT is like magic. It leaves no damage and will wipe out bud worm. 

Next summer I'll hit these fuckers hard at the right time, in mid July when the moths starting dropping the eggs.


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## jbcCT (Dec 17, 2018)

Also, a previous post did mention the worms gravitate towards certain strains. I did three different Bodhi packs this year and they definitely attacked my Hell's Angel x Snow lotus the most. They stayed away from my bubba kush x Snow lotus.

There must be something in certain plants that the moth prefer in terms of where to lay the eggs. They don't discriminate though any will devour and bud left unchecked.


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## TheGrassIsGreenerInAus (Jan 7, 2019)

What is BT?


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## potroastV2 (Jan 7, 2019)

Blood Test, or Blood Transfusion.


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## potroastV2 (Jan 7, 2019)

Blue Tooth.


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## potroastV2 (Jan 7, 2019)

Basic Training. (Boot Camp)


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## potroastV2 (Jan 7, 2019)

Bacillus Thuringiensis. (naw, too obscure!)


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## too larry (Jan 7, 2019)

Bra, Training.


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## TheHarvester (Feb 2, 2019)

One of the best and safest ways to combat caterpillars is neting your plants.
The caterpillars are born from eggs that have been layed by butterflys or a moth species.

Hoop house cover also helps if it's sealed.

lady bug larvae are a good defense I believe. They will eat the caterpillar larvae.


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## TheHarvester (Feb 2, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> Cant argue with this post. The man is right. From what I gather if your growing outdoors your going to lose a portion to the worms. Every. Single. Time.


Collateral damage of outdoor growing.


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## Native man (Feb 21, 2019)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


I have soaked mine in cooler of water for a couple of days, and changed the water 3 times a day...all it does is make the buds a dark color almost black and the taste is very mellow but the high is the same.


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## tylerdurz (Mar 25, 2019)

How do you prevent from getting worm / caterpillars


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## jbcCT (Mar 25, 2019)

tylerdurz said:


> How do you prevent from getting worm / caterpillars


My strategy is this. In my region the moths lays the eggs early July. Bud work is in full swing 1st day of August. Learn this cycle in your region. 

In my case I'm going to be soaking by plants in BT mid July through mid August. My photos run through October so I'm good. Make the first bite of plant be their last. Kill them while the are microscopic.

It's a timing thing with BT. Properly used it kills infestation dead. 

The ideal situation is to not let then get a toe hold. The shit works. No impact on bud quality whatsoever.


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## tylerdurz (Mar 27, 2019)

Thanks But what is BT


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## jbcCT (Apr 2, 2019)

http://www.gardensafe.com/products/insecticide/bt-worm-and-caterpillar-killer.aspx

It's s safe to use worm killer. It's what your going to need. Couple different companies put it out. Do a search for BT worm killer and buy a little jug off Amazon.


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## Zento (Apr 4, 2019)

tylerdurz said:


> Thanks But what is BT


Bacillus thuringiensis dude


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## Sir Napsalot (Apr 4, 2019)

Monterey BT


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## Srotak (May 1, 2019)

With out reading all the posts,,, what you guys are referring to as bud worms are actually corn bore. A small moth about 1/2 inch long lays eggs on the underside of the leaf, looks like a flat cocoon,,,, looking close you can see their eyes just before they venture out to bore in. They cause a lot of spit when they eat, thus causing all the mold in the buds.
But the real damage comes from interrupting the the plants vascular system by boring into the stems. This can fuck up the strongest plant which it will eventually side step the pest,, leaving a big ole knot in the stem.
I used to be so infested with them I’d loose 1/2 my crop. I found an easy way to control them, with out using any pesticides,,,,plant later, you miss their justation egg laying window.
Where I’m at that means planting after the first of July. If you have a sweet corn field near you,,,, yer fucked,,, they spray the fields 3 to 4 times a year, and the lil bastard will migrate to where there is no spray.
Just google European corn bore...
gona be a late spring here,,,, good growing guys,,,!!
Srotak


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## jbcCT (May 2, 2019)

TheHarvester said:


> One of the best and safest ways to combat caterpillars is neting your plants.
> The caterpillars are born from eggs that have been layed by butterflys or a moth species.
> 
> Hoop house cover also helps if it's sealed.
> ...



I thought about trying the nets. Seemed like a lot of work. But yeah obviously the best protection. What kind of rig do use to hold up the nets or do you just drape them over the plants?


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## jbcCT (May 2, 2019)

Srotak said:


> With out reading all the posts,,, what you guys are referring to as bud worms are actually corn bore. A small moth about 1/2 inch long lays eggs on the underside of the leaf, looks like a flat cocoon,,,, looking close you can see their eyes just before they venture out to bore in. They cause a lot of spit when they eat, thus causing all the mold in the buds.
> But the real damage comes from interrupting the the plants vascular system by boring into the stems. This can fuck up the strongest plant which it will eventually side step the pest,, leaving a big ole knot in the stem.
> I used to be so infested with them I’d loose 1/2 my crop. I found an easy way to control them, with out using any pesticides,,,,plant later, you miss their justation egg laying window.
> Where I’m at that means planting after the first of July. If you have a sweet corn field near you,,,, yer fucked,,, they spray the fields 3 to 4 times a year, and the lil bastard will migrate to where there is no spray.
> ...


Good post man. Unfortunately my season is short and my timing is everything. Matter of fact I'm dropping beans this weekend. Wish I could avoid them all together.


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## yellowcreek (May 13, 2019)

I guess BT at the start of flowering and throughout is the only real solution? I have same issue with my tomato plants, freakin' worms/caterpillars. I live in thick humid forest, so there are TONS. Problem is it rains a lot too, so if I sprinkle BT powder, will get washed off often. Every solution seems impossible. I assume fine netting won't even work. Sealed greenhouses get way too hot. The worm/caterpillar problem sucks.


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## jbcCT (May 29, 2019)

BT works wonderfully. In my region bud worms become known late July, first week of August. You want to mist your entire plant, vegetables & marijuana in my case, early July. Every two to three days in the morning. Let their first bite be their last. You want to catch these things as soon as they hatch, while they are super small, before they can do damage. 

Don't get me wrong, it will knock out an infestation, but by then it can be too late.

Make sure the product is properly diluted according to instructions. Get yourself a hand sprayer for smaller grows. You can buy a hose sprayer attachment with a bulb for concentrate to apply for larger grows.


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## blazeaglory420 (Jun 17, 2019)

BT for the win


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## potroastV2 (Jun 17, 2019)

I just saw that the DynaTrap is on sale at Costco for $80. I might try one.


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## growerNshower (Jul 4, 2019)

rollitup said:


> I just saw that the DynaTrap is on sale at Costco for $80. I might try one.


Good call. I just placed an order for the 1 acre size...I'm looking to kill these blood thirsty mosquitos along with the dirty moths!


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## mordynyc (Jul 10, 2019)

Friend or foe? 
A month ago I also had this weird green bug under a stem...when I went to flick it off it would rapidly move. I poked it with a stick and it was the funniest thing it would do a perfect 180 roll so fast many times. I gave up figired it wanted it more than me lol but it's been doin fine.


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## jbcCT (Jul 10, 2019)

Almost time to get the sprayer ready. Got some worm killin to do......


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## mordynyc (Jul 10, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> Almost time to get the sprayer ready. Got some worm killin to do......


Do u use both bt and neem? I don't wanna f up my plants or deter good predator bugs. I get a lot of those hover flies from my other plants though.


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## jbcCT (Jul 10, 2019)

mordynyc said:


> Do u use both bt and neem? I don't wanna f up my plants or deter good predator bugs. I get a lot of those hover flies from my other plants though.


No I don't use neem at all. You really only need the BT if it's worms your fighting. It works that well. The idea is to start spraying shortly after they start to flower so you never see any worms. Make that first bite their last, while they are microscopic.

Let us know how it turns out.


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## jbcCT (Jul 10, 2019)

mordynyc said:


> Friend or foe?
> A month ago I also had this weird green bug under a stem...when I went to flick it off it would rapidly move. I poked it with a stick and it was the funniest thing it would do a perfect 180 roll so fast many times. I gave up figired it wanted it more than me lol but it's been doin fine.
> View attachment 4362845 View attachment 4362844


' seen a few unusual


mordynyc said:


> Friend or foe?
> A month ago I also had this weird green bug under a stem...when I went to flick it off it would rapidly move. I poked it with a stick and it was the funniest thing it would do a perfect 180 roll so fast many times. I gave up figired it wanted it more than me lol but it's been doin fine.
> View attachment 4362845 View attachment 4362844


Funny you should mention that. I've watched many unusual, unknown strangers visit my plants. First thing on my mind is freind or for. Part of the fun and wonder of growing outdoors.


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## potroastV2 (Jul 11, 2019)

mordynyc said:


> Do u use both bt and neem? I don't wanna f up my plants or deter good predator bugs. I get a lot of those hover flies from my other plants though.


I've always thought that you don't want to mix any beneficials with neem oil, because the neem will destroy them. But now I'm using SoluNeem, on Ed's suggestion, as a pesticide and it's a water-soluble neem seed powder. The label says you can mix it with BT, and spray both at once. That sounds good to me.

SoluNeem is an organic pesticide that is much more potent than Neem Oil.


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## jbcCT (Jul 13, 2019)

rollitup said:


> I've always thought that you don't want to mix any beneficials with neem oil, because the neem will destroy them. But now I'm using SoluNeem, on Ed's suggestion, as a pesticide and it's a water-soluble neem seed powder. The label says you can mix it with BT, and spray both at once. That sounds good to me.
> 
> SoluNeem is an organic pesticide that is much more potent than Neem Oil.


Great post. Did not know you could mix that BT. Us peeps growing outdoors are always looking for ways to combat a host of pests, some as deadly as those dam worms.

I noticed last summer Japanese beetles starting to appear. Just great. This summer more prevalent. They can buzzsaw a plants folliage down to the stalk. They have a hard outer shell. Tough sob's.


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## grohkingg420 (Jul 19, 2019)

Anyone know what the cause of this is. Can’t find any bugs but I’m assuming it’s something eating it. Starting to spread on my plant and looking for remedies to cure the problem.


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## CanadianJim (Jul 19, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> Great post. Did not know you could mix that BT. Us peeps growing outdoors are always looking for ways to combat a host of pests, some as deadly as those dam worms.
> 
> I noticed last summer Japanese beetles starting to appear. Just great. This summer more prevalent. They can buzzsaw a plants folliage down to the stalk. They have a hard outer shell. Tough sob's.


Nematodes are the only preventive I know of for those. They lay eggs in your lawn, grubs overwinter, leaving big brown patches, then the adults emerge hungry in the spring. Nematodes kill the grubs. Problem is if your neighbours have them too, they'll come on over to your yard no problem. My neighbour neglected her yard for years, now I'm getting the beetles in my yard.


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## jbcCT (Jul 19, 2019)

CanadianJim said:


> Nematodes are the only preventive I know of for those. They lay eggs in your lawn, grubs overwinter, leaving big brown patches, then the adults emerge hungry in the spring. Nematodes kill the grubs. Problem is if your neighbours have them too, they'll come on over to your yard no problem. My neighbour neglected her yard for years, now I'm getting the beetles in my yard.


Totally agree. I have one of those attachments for my garden hose that you can fill with concentrated pesticides. I spray once a week after I mow. It has been very successful against the jap beetles. You have to spray once a week though.

On another note, began preventative BT spraying this week. Just in time too. Preflower is in full swing and I found one tiny bud worm. They start off almost microscopic and translucent, until they chomp those plants. I've got high hopes for this strategy, excited to see how it turns out.


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## growerNshower (Jul 25, 2019)

rollitup said:


> I just saw that the DynaTrap is on sale at Costco for $80. I might try one.


How is your dynatrap working out? Mine is collecting many a moth!


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## potroastV2 (Jul 26, 2019)

Yep, my trap looks like that, too. We'll know how well it works in a few months.


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## jbcCT (Jul 29, 2019)

CanadianJim said:


> Nematodes are the only preventive I know of for those. They lay eggs in your lawn, grubs overwinter, leaving big brown patches, then the adults emerge hungry in the spring. Nematodes kill the grubs. Problem is if your neighbours have them too, they'll come on over to your yard no problem. My neighbour neglected her yard for years, now I'm getting the beetles in my yard.


Dude you nailed it. Your neighbors got em. It's to the point I'm spraying general pesticide 10 ft out from my yard on both sides to extend my kill zone into my neighbors yards. I too have notice those dam jap beetles increase every year. I got a hose attachment sprayer, I use a concentrate. Spray once a week after I mow and Ive almost fully eliminated the beetles. If I stop they will run right over me.


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## jbcCT (Jul 29, 2019)

Just got in from my late night BT misting. Critical stage in pre spraying BT test. On my 4th or 5th treatment since end of first week of July. Very to full on flower. 

For me, what makes the worms so deadly, you can hardly spot them till it's too late. I got high hopes for this little experiment. In this doesn't work not what will.


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## SuperNutz (Jul 31, 2019)

Should I spray tonight or wait till morning. Daytime temps are just below 80 with morning temps around 55 and low humidity. Just got my BT in the mail and anxious to get spraying but idk if 55 is too cold to be wet or if the morning dew will make it less effective then drying in the morning sun. Thanks

Also it doesn't say to add dish soap like neem oil does.. Should I add it anyways at the same rate?


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## CanadianJim (Jul 31, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> Should I spray tonight or wait till morning. Daytime temps are just below 80 with morning temps around 55 and low humidity. Just got my BT in the mail and anxious to get spraying but idk if 55 is too cold to be wet or if the morning dew will make it less effective then drying in the morning sun. Thanks
> 
> Also it doesn't say to add dish soap like neem oil does.. Should I add it anyways at the same rate?


Tonight would be better for the spray as uv light can interfere with it IIRC. I'd say no dish soap since it's a bacteria.


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## SuperNutz (Jul 31, 2019)

CanadianJim said:


> Tonight would be better for the spray as uv light can interfere with it IIRC. I'd say no dish soap since it's a bacteria.


Thanks Jim, I gotta go rinse my sprayer good then. Used it for neem with soap about a week ago.


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## potroastV2 (Aug 1, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> Should I spray tonight or wait till morning. Daytime temps are just below 80 with morning temps around 55 and low humidity. Just got my BT in the mail and anxious to get spraying but idk if 55 is too cold to be wet or if the morning dew will make it less effective then drying in the morning sun. Thanks
> 
> Also it doesn't say to add dish soap like neem oil does.. Should I add it anyways at the same rate?



I always spray my plants in the morning, before the sunlight hits them. You never want to spray plants in the evening once buds are forming. The general rule says "never put your plants to bed wet."

I always add a few drops of Dr. Bronner's Magic Soap, which acts as a "sticker-spreader."


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## Sir Napsalot (Aug 1, 2019)

rollitup said:


> I always add a few drops of Dr. Bronner's Magic Soap, which acts as a "sticker-spreader."


I haven't tried the Dr. Bronner's Magic Soap, but I do use a few drops of aloe vera gel as a wetting agent


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## CanadianJim (Aug 1, 2019)

Sir Napsalot said:


> I haven't tried the Dr. Bronner's Magic Soap, but I do use a few drops of aloe vera gel as a wetting agent


A commercial BT product will have "sticker-spreader"s and such added. It's not like there's a homemade version.


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## CanadianJim (Aug 1, 2019)

rollitup said:


> I always spray my plants in the morning, before the sunlight hits them. You never want to spray plants in the evening once buds are forming. The general rule says "never put your plants to bed wet."
> 
> I always add a few drops of Dr. Bronner's Magic Soap, which acts as a "sticker-spreader."


I've heard the general rule as "dawn or dusk", but to each their own. Do the instructions have any cautions?


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## potroastV2 (Aug 1, 2019)

CanadianJim said:


> I've heard the general rule as "dawn or dusk", but to each their own. Do the instructions have any cautions?


Well, you can spray your plants at dusk if you want, but I said that it's not a good idea during flowering.

I don't know what instructions you're talking about, but if you want some more wisdom about spraying, I'll tell you another general rule. The rule of 140 says that if the air temperature added to the relative humidity is more that 140 then don't spray.


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## CanadianJim (Aug 2, 2019)

rollitup said:


> Well, you can spray your plants at dusk if you want, but I said that it's not a good idea during flowering.
> 
> I don't know what instructions you're talking about, but if you want some more wisdom about spraying, I'll tell you another general rule. The rule of 140 says that if the air temperature added to the relative humidity is more that 140 then don't spray.


The instructions I referred to were for the BT product @SuperNutz bought. Specifically I was wondering if the instructions indicated the best time of day for the spray to be applied.


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## SuperNutz (Aug 2, 2019)

CanadianJim said:


> The instructions I referred to were for the BT product @SuperNutz bought. Specifically I was wondering if the instructions indicated the best time of day for the spray to be applied.


I'm using Monterey BT, says nothing about time of day.


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## SuperNutz (Aug 4, 2019)

rollitup said:


> Well, you can spray your plants at dusk if you want, but I said that it's not a good idea during flowering.
> 
> I don't know what instructions you're talking about, but if you want some more wisdom about spraying, I'll tell you another general rule. The rule of 140 says that if the air temperature added to the relative humidity is more that 140 then don't spray.


I've had those over 140 nights lately, starting to see a bottom leaf here and there with some sort of white mildew or something, not from spraying though, that night was not humid and the next day was dry but past two nights humidity has been in the 90's.


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## jbcCT (Aug 7, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> I've had those over 140 nights lately, starting to see a bottom leaf here and there with some sort of white mildew or something, not from spraying though, that night was not humid and the next day was dry but past two nights humidity has been in the 90's.


I'm growing three different strains outdoors. One of my strains caught a little case of powdery mildew in June, early in veg. Impacted only the lower leaves but started moving up the plant. I caught it early and used a common fungicide from Home Depot. I diluted it a little bit and sprayed all my plants. It worked beautifully. I did end up removing most of the impacted leaves before I sprayed.

Just a suggestion, if your seeing any kind of white / grayish mildew, that's something you want to jump on asap. If left unchecked it will spread and can destroy the whole plant. 

Let us know how it turns out.


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## jbcCT (Aug 7, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> Should I spray tonight or wait till morning. Daytime temps are just below 80 with morning temps around 55 and low humidity. Just got my BT in the mail and anxious to get spraying but idk if 55 is too cold to be wet or if the morning dew will make it less effective then drying in the morning sun. Thanks
> 
> Also it doesn't say to add dish soap like neem oil does.. Should I add it anyways at the same rate?


I'm a big fan of spraying BT at night. I soak em down real good. I've observed bud worms and they will generally come out at dawn to feed. They can't take direct, hot sun for very long. Once they have breakfast they tend to retreat towards the stems, or back into your flowers. Late at night or crack ass of dawn. 

Please report back on how this turned out.


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## SuperNutz (Aug 7, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> I'm a big fan of spraying BT at night. I soak em down real good. I've observed bud worms and they will generally come out at dawn to feed. They can't take direct, hot sun for very long. Once they have breakfast they tend to retreat towards the stems, or back into your flowers. Late at night or crack ass of dawn.
> 
> Please report back on how this turned out.


Gonna have to wait till tomorrow night for good conditions to spray again, unfortunately I have to do a round of neem before the BT because I found a few leaves on one of my girls with spider mites while trimming out the little stuff in the middle, Grrr… I'll post back in about a week as far as cannapillars and these mites go.


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## jbcCT (Aug 8, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> Gonna have to wait till tomorrow night for good conditions to spray again, unfortunately I have to do a round of neem before the BT because I found a few leaves on one of my girls with spider mites while trimming out the little stuff in the middle, Grrr… I'll post back in about a week as far as cannapillars and these mites go.


Outdoors is a constant battle.


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## jbcCT (Aug 8, 2019)

Just got it from my gentle BT spraying. Love being out there in the dark, hearing the summer bugs, as I spray my properly diluted BT.

Soaked them ladies down. Flower tops are just starting to form on my feminized. Be a little longer on the reg Bodhi.

It's been four or five days since the last treatment.

The beauty of BT is you don't need a lot. Four teaspoons to a gallon.


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## SuperNutz (Aug 8, 2019)

I wasn't able to spray tonight, hope tomorrow the winds die down earlier. Was still 15 mph winds when I gave up waiting and went to the grocery store at 9 pm. The thing about wind here is it changes direction second to second lol. Was cutting low branches on the tomato plants this afternoon and every time I threw them out of the garden they came flying right back to me lol.


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## PinkFlight (Aug 10, 2019)

Seamaiden said:


> I couldn't quite determine how big that bud worm was. A week or two ago I found a little brown caterpillar thing in one of my girls, and I picked it off. Now I'm noticing that I have what locals call "meat bees" picking through my plants, and I'm wondering if they're finding and eating more of these little things I found. It was between 1/4"-18" long.
> 
> What's the BT, or the bacteria that are in it?
> 
> Are the GrowFAQs back up yet?


What region is this? I have not seen the worms here in the PNW.....YET!


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## SuperNutz (Aug 10, 2019)

PinkFlight said:


> What region is this? I have not seen the worms here in the PNW.....YET!


If you have moths around, you will have worms.


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## SuperNutz (Aug 10, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> Just got it from my gentle BT spraying. Love being out there in the dark, hearing the summer bugs, as I spray my properly diluted BT.
> 
> Soaked them ladies down. Flower tops are just starting to form on my feminized. Be a little longer on the reg Bodhi.
> 
> ...


Got them good and soaked with neem at dusk. How long you think I should wait to hit them with the BT again?


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## PinkFlight (Aug 11, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> If you have moths around, you will have worms.


I've had a few worms in my veg garden at times. But never in my grow....yet. Disgusting!!


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## jbcCT (Aug 12, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> Got them good and soaked with neem at dusk. How long you think I should wait to hit them with the BT again?


I've been treating every three to five days, late at night. For my part of the country, northeast, now is a critical time. Flower tops are forming. Stretching, packing on sugar leaf. Final leg of the race.

What makes bud worm so deadly, you don't need an infestation. You won't always see them until the flowers are formed and you got brown chunks of bud.

I'm going to spray every three to five days up until two weeks before I chop. For me that means till mid October.

I wash all my outdoor bud as I take it down. Aside from picking up dust, helps sterilize. 5 gallon home Depot buckets. One with some hydrogen peroxide, one clean water, then hang.

I go a little nuts on cleanliness. Surgical gloves, use my spring loaded pruners to open the bud up a bit, check for critters. To me, it's like making wine for friends, family and myself. I want a super clean product. That dank sticky outdoor.

Makes you think though. That's why those mendo boys doing trees out there, in some cases are dumping pesticide on the stuff not headed for dispensary. The Mexicans don't give a [email protected]#$, it's the money for them.


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## jbcCT (Aug 12, 2019)

PinkFlight said:


> I've had a few worms in my veg garden at times. But never in my grow....yet. Disgusting!!


Outdoor it's not a question of If but when. Once they blast into flower worms love bud. But good for you if you don't get them.


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## jbcCT (Aug 12, 2019)

PinkFlight said:


> What region is this? I have not seen the worms here in the PNW.....YET!


You won't always see them either.


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## SuperNutz (Aug 13, 2019)

It's gotten pretty bad in Norcal with all the runoff from synthetic nutes and whatnot


jbcCT said:


> I've been treating every three to five days, late at night. For my part of the country, northeast, now is a critical time. Flower tops are forming. Stretching, packing on sugar leaf. Final leg of the race.
> 
> What makes bud worm so deadly, you don't need an infestation. You won't always see them until the flowers are formed and you got brown chunks of bud.
> 
> ...


Hit all the gals past preflower with a good soak of BT. Conditions were perfect I think, cool and breezy with low humidity. Had to go straight into the shower lol, upper Midwest winds constantly change direction, literally N,S,E,W … I'm probably on your same timeline for chop, keep me updated.


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## jbcCT (Aug 15, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> It's gotten pretty bad in Norcal with all the runoff from synthetic nutes and whatnot
> 
> 
> Hit all the gals past preflower with a good soak of BT. Conditions were perfect I think, cool and breezy with low humidity. Had to go straight into the shower lol, upper Midwest winds constantly change direction, literally N,S,E,W … I'm probably on your same timeline for chop, keep me updated.


Funny you should say that. Everytime I go out to spray I'm covered in the shit.

Just did a full misting. Had an hour of rain yesterday. I'm trying to get in close to the stem with it. Pretty soon the growth of the flower will lock me out of those nooks and crannies. Haven't seen a worm at all this year. That can be more scary than seeing them.


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## SuperNutz (Aug 15, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> Funny you should say that. Everytime I go out to spray I'm covered in the shit.
> 
> Just did a full misting. Had an hour of rain yesterday. I'm trying to get in close to the stem with it. Pretty soon the growth of the flower will lock me out of those nooks and crannies. Haven't seen a worm at all this year. That can be more scary than seeing them.


I've been seeing them for weeks, even in veg they where hanging out. Pluck off and kill a few pretty much daily. Some are really tiny and hard to find. Sucks tho, rained for 12 hours straight this morning into evening so gonna be back out spraying again tomorrow. Never ending work with outdoor lol.


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## RipeLoud (Aug 16, 2019)

I previously posted in the wrong section:
I just came in from checking on my girl and found small caterpillars  
Last evening I sprayed , this morning I went to check and found six additional caterpillars on my girl afraid I might lose all ?

I found an informative article with pictures by searching google, "Washington State University Extension Rose Tobacco budworm".
Maybe the article will help others as well.


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## SuperNutz (Aug 16, 2019)

To spray or not to spray? Weather forecast 2 nights ago was a 10% chance of rain so I watered. Then it rained from like 4 am till about 6 pm or something like that soaking everything. Then the fog rolled in a few hours later and stuck around till 8 this morning and when I went out everything was still drenched, so Im guessing the BT from 3 nights ago is useless. They say 60% chance of rain tonight but I think it's just a wild guess being they're wrong constantly.


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## jbcCT (Aug 16, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> I've been seeing them for weeks, even in veg they where hanging out. Pluck off and kill a few pretty much daily. Some are really tiny and hard to find. Sucks tho, rained for 12 hours straight this morning into evening so gonna be back out spraying again tomorrow. Never ending work with outdoor lol.


Stay on top of it and don't get discouraged. If your seeing them, if they've establish a visual presence, you need to spray every two to three days.

I'm on a 4 to 7 day schedule and always after rain. (Have a large yard tent to sheild when needed).

I'm assuming they are present and I can't see them. Been spraying since early July if I'm not mistaken.

Good article on the fall armyworm. It's destroying crops across China. They are dousing corn in pesticide. These suckers are nasty.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-12/fall-armyworm-invades-china-wreaks-havoc-agriculture-lands


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## SuperNutz (Aug 17, 2019)

In the hour I was outside it went to 80%,


jbcCT said:


> Stay on top of it and don't get discouraged. If your seeing them, if they've establish a visual presence, you need to spray every two to three days.
> 
> I'm on a 4 to 7 day schedule and always after rain. (Have a large yard tent to sheild when needed).
> 
> ...


Just woke up and we got absolutely no rain lol. Now they say 0% for today and 80% for Sunday, dumb ass meteorologists.


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## SuperNutz (Aug 17, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> Stay on top of it and don't get discouraged. If your seeing them, if they've establish a visual presence, you need to spray every two to three days.
> 
> I'm on a 4 to 7 day schedule and always after rain. (Have a large yard tent to sheild when needed).
> 
> ...


Wasn't supposed to "possibly rain" till tomorrow evening. Why do I hear thunder 3 hours after spraying 3 gallons of mixed BT? Also, fugin sht, my neighbor has about 100 acres of soy growing this year 30 feet from my plants. This is gonna be a rough couple months.


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## RipeLoud (Aug 18, 2019)

I am a person who enjoys gardening and loves to watch my garden bloom. I have a variety of flowers which bloom throughout the seasons. Winter and spring I have pansies, daffodils, hellebores and azalea bushes. During the summer I have Coneflower, Black-eyed Susans, Hibiscus, butterfly bushes and other varieties of plants which attract butterflies. During the fall my Chrysanthemums, and Asters give the yard its color.
* Me and my dumb ass, Live and learn from my mistakes!!!* If these plants attract butterflies they also attract moths, and as I now know there is a type of moth which produce *BUD WORMS*.
My single girl is in a pot, I placed her in an area for the very best exposure to the sun. Also in the area only 3 foot away on each side were butterfly bushes and other butterfly attracting plants.
After reading several post here and researching other articles online, I realized there are bud worms on my single lady. I will take the butterfly bushes as well as other plants which attract butterflies, out of the area and place elsewhere.

*Again live and learn from my mistakes!!! *

Two days ago I sprayed with B.T Spinosad, no rain expected for 5 days, I will repeat the spray after it rains and hope the bud worms have not destroyed much of my product. Next year I will start spraying early in the season to avoid the problem.


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## jbcCT (Aug 18, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> Wasn't supposed to "possibly rain" till tomorrow evening. Why do I hear thunder 3 hours after spraying 3 gallons of mixed BT? Also, fugin sht, my neighbor has about 100 acres of soy growing this year 30 feet from my plants. This is gonna be a rough couple months.


I just got in from spraying. Had an hour long sunshower. Heat wave for the next two days in the NE. Was 90 today, pool all day for me gardening. Still seeing brown and white moths, still spraying.....


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## jbcCT (Aug 18, 2019)

RipeLoud said:


> I am a person who enjoys gardening and loves to watch my garden bloom. I have a variety of flowers which bloom throughout the seasons. Winter and spring I have pansies, daffodils, hellebores and azalea bushes. During the summer I have Coneflower, Black-eyed Susans, Hibiscus, butterfly bushes and other varieties of plants which attract butterflies. During the fall my Chrysanthemums, and Asters give the yard its color.
> * Me and my dumb ass, Live and learn from my mistakes!!!* If these plants attract butterflies they also attract moths, and as I now know there is a type of moth which produce *BUD WORMS*.
> My single girl is in a pot, I placed her in an area for the very best exposure to the sun. Also in the area only 3 foot away on each side were butterfly bushes and other butterfly attracting plants.
> After reading several post here and researching other articles online, I realized there are bud worms on my single lady. I will take the butterfly bushes as well as other plants which attract butterflies, out of the area and place elsewhere.
> ...



You don't need to move your plants around. You need a bottle of Monterey BT concentrate and you need to spray your whole garden with it. Next year you'll be ready.

My whole veg to flower pre spray was born out of your very problem. Lost my two biggest plants last year. You have to assume they will be present every season. Make the first bite the last...


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## SuperNutz (Aug 18, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> I just got in from spraying. Had an hour long sunshower. Heat wave for the next two days in the NE. Was 90 today, pool all day for me gardening. Still seeing brown and white moths, still spraying.....


I'm having a lucky streak I guess lol, both late lastnight and this evening the storms missed me by a couple miles. Looks like heat and humidity coming here again too. Had to do a serious cleanout of the insides of the canopy today and spray for mildew from that 14 hours of rain followed by 10 hours of fog the other day, friggin beat lol.


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## CanadianJim (Aug 18, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> You don't need to move your plants around. You need a bottle of Monterey BT concentrate and you need to spray your whole garden with it. Next year you'll be ready.
> 
> My whole veg to flower pre spray was born out of your very problem. Lost my two biggest plants last year. You have to assume they will be present every season. Make the first bite the last...


Unless you've got milkweed, don't spray that. Monarch butterflies will only lay their eggs on milkweed, and that's the only thing their caterpillars can eat.


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## RipeLoud (Aug 19, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> You don't need to move your plants around. You need a bottle of Monterey BT concentrate and you need to spray your whole garden with it. Next year you'll be ready.
> 
> My whole veg to flower pre spray was born out of your very problem. Lost my two biggest plants last year. You have to assume they will be present every season. Make the first bite the last...


Thanks for the reply and info. I am now spraying with Monterey B.T Spinosad, and will start as you suggest pre-spray, earlier in the season next year, as I plan for a larger garden.
Thanks again, PEACE


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## jbcCT (Aug 19, 2019)

RipeLoud said:


> I previously posted in the wrong section:
> I just came in from checking on my girl and found small caterpillars View attachment 4380136
> Last evening I sprayed View attachment 4380142, this morning I went to check and found six additional caterpillars on my girl afraid I might lose all ?
> 
> ...


Any articles on crops and worms are a great resource.

In regards to your plants. Hose them down with BT. Every two days if the worms are visible. 

If you nip it it the bud now you'll be able to salvage some flower. Be prepared at harvest to thoroughly inspect all the flower as you do the first trim. Your looking for what they call frass. That's the black poop they leave behind. Use your trimmer to peel back the bud so you can inspect it. 

Do this before you hang to dry. You don't want paratroopers dropping down from your drying rack cause then you can't tell where they came from.

Next year, you will start spraying BT at pre flower. Instead of reacting to the problem you kill it at the source. As soon as they hatch you want them chewing on BT. They are so small at birth they eat that shit and dry up and fall off your plants.


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## jbcCT (Aug 19, 2019)

CanadianJim said:


> Unless you've got milkweed, don't spray that. Monarch butterflies will only lay their eggs on milkweed, and that's the only thing their caterpillars can eat.


Can you expand on that? Milkweed? 

All I know is cabbage worms born of the brown moth love to eat my plants. I've witnessed BT stop infestations so I'm going to keep spraying cause the alternative is to lose all my plants to these nasty suckers.


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## jbcCT (Aug 19, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> I'm having a lucky streak I guess lol, both late lastnight and this evening the storms missed me by a couple miles. Looks like heat and humidity coming here again too. Had to do a serious cleanout of the insides of the canopy today and spray for mildew from that 14 hours of rain followed by 10 hours of fog the other day, friggin beat lol.


Been watching doplar like a hawk myself. Lot of pop up storms in the NE, was 92 degrees today. I have a massive tent but unfortunately have to work for a living so I can't get them out of the way all the time.
Just trying to make it to the finish line. I'm like two weeks into flower with a few still stretching before full flower.


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## ThailandBound (Aug 19, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> Been watching doplar like a hawk myself. Lot of pop up storms in the NE, was 92 degrees today. I have a massive tent but unfortunately have to work for a living so I can't get them out of the way all the time.
> Just trying to make it to the finish line. I'm like two weeks into flower with a few still stretching before full flower.


Just got back from someones medicine grow, he had told me he had a worm invasion so I had to check it out. Evidently they have picked somewhere around 400 of those off their plants over the past three days. This morning while I was there, I found 7, his girlfriend found probably 20 or more, and he was at 10ish. That is a lot of bud worms. Told him to use BT and hit them 3-4 days apart for two applications, then once a week up to 2 weeks before harvest. But with that said, I have also read you can use it right up to harvest too. He has another 4-5 weeks until harvest time. Me, I've got 8 weeks give or take a week, this is my first week of flower. We are both growing under plastic outdoors in Hawaii. Hope you spot them if the come!


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## SuperNutz (Aug 19, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> Been watching doplar like a hawk myself. Lot of pop up storms in the NE, was 92 degrees today. I have a massive tent but unfortunately have to work for a living so I can't get them out of the way all the time.
> Just trying to make it to the finish line. I'm like two weeks into flower with a few still stretching before full flower.


Little shits are driving me Nutz lol. Everyday I go out and the first bud I see has one on it, then I'm going crazy searching the whole plant and find no more... but it's always the 1st bud I see for some reason.


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## CanadianJim (Aug 20, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> Can you expand on that? Milkweed?
> 
> All I know is cabbage worms born of the brown moth love to eat my plants. I've witnessed BT stop infestations so I'm going to keep spraying cause the alternative is to lose all my plants to these nasty suckers.


Milkweed is usually about two to three feet tall, with single bladed leaves that grow in pairs on opposite sides of the stem. Monarch butterflies lay their eggs only on milkweed, and it is all their caterpillars will eat as it contains a toxic substance which makes them toxic and unappetizing to predators. It has seedpods that are forming right about now that will open in a month or so, full of seeds attached to stuff that looks like dandelion fluff, and the seeds are spread on the wind. Monarchs are endangered, partly because people usually pull up milkweed in their gardens. Lots of people here in Canada are planting it now, as are some schools, to give them places to lay their eggs.


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## CanadianJim (Aug 20, 2019)

Meant to add this...


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## RipeLoud (Aug 20, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> You don't need to move your plants around. You need a bottle of Monterey BT concentrate and you need to spray your whole garden with it. Next year you'll be ready.
> 
> My whole veg to flower pre spray was born out of your very problem. Lost my two biggest plants last year. You have to assume they will be present every season. Make the first bite the last...


Monterey B.T Spinosad

I sprayed with Monterey B.T Spinosad Thursday afternoon, no rain, I picked another 3-4 worms off the plant that day. Saturday because I realized the solution was incorrect, again no rain, and NO Worms found. This morning I reapplied after a very short misty rain last evening with 80% humidity and a low of 72 degrees during the night. I have not found any more bud worms, but I did see several pieces of frass which leads me to believe the bud worms are somewhere within the buds. I will as you recommended continue to spray every 2 days until a couple (2) days before harvest in approx. 2 weeks out.

I researched frass and found a site that sells it, pardon the pun, it sounds like some good shit, if purchased and applied as directed. Has anyone purchased and used if so did you see a positive effect? I’m very weary there is much snake oil out here and do not want to waste any hard earned money on a product that does not work.

*A Big Thanks* to everyone for all the valuable information and suggestions. The freedom of & exchange of knowledge here is unsurpassed on any other site I have visited in the past 10 years.

Pict’s included, for   opinion time to harvest?


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## SuperNutz (Aug 21, 2019)

I haven't been seeing any worms lately and I think I can thank the yellow jacket nest 15 foot from the garden for that. Didn't put it together till lastnight when I was trimming the small low and inside buds out and one was flying around in the same plant I was working on looking for dinner.


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## Jeziah (Aug 22, 2019)

I was just thinking about worms on my plant after reading this yesterday. Then I go out this morning to water and spot a worm on the first branch I look walking right over a bud lol. I think its a cabbage worm luckily I knew to spray some BT thanks to this thread before it gets infested


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## See green (Aug 22, 2019)

Yup, I think now and the next few weeks is prime worm time.


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## SuperNutz (Aug 22, 2019)

Sprayed BT again cause I damned myself with that last post and found 2 worms today lol. Hoping the ladybugs stick around, if not still have the nematodes working, so... Does anyone know if apple cider vinegar spray for mildew will counteract the BT or peroxide spray(idk)? Trying not to spend hours a day being counter productive lol. But anyone know?


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## RipeLoud (Aug 23, 2019)

I found a small lizard on a lower bud when I went out this morning to spray again with BT. I will give him until tomorrow to find and eat the worms, no I did not spray today.


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## budsfordayz (Aug 23, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> Sprayed BT again cause I damned myself with that last post and found 2 worms today lol. Hoping the ladybugs stick around, if not still have the nematodes working, so... Does anyone know if apple cider vinegar spray for mildew will counteract the BT or peroxide spray(idk)? Trying not to spend hours a day being counter productive lol. But anyone know?


Spray vinegar first then the bt after. The bt must dry on leaves and then the worms eat it. If u spray bt then the vinegar after the bt will simply get washed off.

Goodluck!


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## budsfordayz (Aug 23, 2019)

RipeLoud said:


> Monterey B.T Spinosad
> 
> I sprayed with Monterey B.T Spinosad Thursday afternoon, no rain, I picked another 3-4 worms off the plant that day. Saturday because I realized the solution was incorrect, again no rain, and NO Worms found. This morning I reapplied after a very short misty rain last evening with 80% humidity and a low of 72 degrees during the night. I have not found any more bud worms, but I did see several pieces of frass which leads me to believe the bud worms are somewhere within the buds. I will as you recommended continue to spray every 2 days until a couple (2) days before harvest in approx. 2 weeks out.
> 
> ...


Stuff works like magic doesn’t it? I’m no expert but looks to me you have atleast a few weeks left. The calyx need to swell still and get real fat. After swelling I usually wait about a week or two for the proper trichome ripeness.


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## CanadianJim (Aug 24, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> Sprayed BT again cause I damned myself with that last post and found 2 worms today lol. Hoping the ladybugs stick around, if not still have the nematodes working, so... Does anyone know if apple cider vinegar spray for mildew will counteract the BT or peroxide spray(idk)? Trying not to spend hours a day being counter productive lol. But anyone know?


Peroxide will kill bt. If you're going to use both, use the peroxide the day before the bt.


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## SuperNutz (Aug 24, 2019)

Supposed to rain Monday, think I should spray cider or peroxide sunday night then BT Tuesday? Found 1 worm today smushed it till it was a wet spot on my thumb lol.


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## olaf687 (Aug 25, 2019)

What state are you located in? Do you know if southern oregon has to worry about bud worms?


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## SuperNutz (Aug 25, 2019)

olaf687 said:


> What state are you located in? Do you know if southern oregon has to worry about bud worms?


If you have moths around you will have bud worms, they are the caterpillars hatched from moth eggs.


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## olaf687 (Aug 25, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> If you have moths around you will have bud worms, they are the caterpillars hatched from moth eggs.


Ughhhhh!!! What month are they most active? I got the frame done on my greenhouse but havent got the plastic. I only planned on covering it for rain and high winds. But now I'm thinking to prevent the moths from laying eggs I might be better off covering them almost all the time. Which kindda sucks cause I wanted more direct sunlight not filtered through plastic. I'm currently waiting for my mantises to hatch. And luckily I have tons of yellow jackets around my plants. I wet the ground down everyday and they come to drink from mud puddles. I used know a place where there was ton of baby frogs and lizards but they moved. I wish U could get whole bucket full of frogs to eat the moth bastards!


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## SuperNutz (Aug 25, 2019)

olaf687 said:


> Ughhhhh!!! What month are they most active? I got the frame done on my greenhouse but havent got the plastic. I only planned on covering it for rain and high winds. But now I'm thinking to prevent the moths from laying eggs I might be better off covering them almost all the time. Which kindda sucks cause I wanted more direct sunlight not filtered through plastic. I'm currently waiting for my mantises to hatch. And luckily I have tons of yellow jackets around my plants. I wet the ground down everyday and they come to drink from mud puddles. I used know a place where there was ton of baby frogs and lizards but they moved. I wish U could get whole bucket full of frogs to eat the moth bastards!


They're active all season but don't tend to do damage till the buds form. I got lucky this year, there's tree frogs, wood frogs, toads, lizards, yellow jackets and starting to see tiny mantis that all came on their own.


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## ThailandBound (Aug 26, 2019)

olaf687 said:


> Ughhhhh!!! What month are they most active? I got the frame done on my greenhouse but havent got the plastic. I only planned on covering it for rain and high winds. But now I'm thinking to prevent the moths from laying eggs I might be better off covering them almost all the time. Which kindda sucks cause I wanted more direct sunlight not filtered through plastic. I'm currently waiting for my mantises to hatch. And luckily I have tons of yellow jackets around my plants. I wet the ground down everyday and they come to drink from mud puddles. I used know a place where there was ton of baby frogs and lizards but they moved. I wish U could get whole bucket full of frogs to eat the moth bastards!


I think they really only become a big issue once the plants begin to flower. I have a pretty decent sized "garden" and have picked 5 off so far, but mine are just about to begin the second week of flowering. Yesterday I picked two more. With that said, my neighbor who probably has 50 plants in the 6th week of flowering has picked over 400 of them off his buds. I just ordered some BT, so in another week, I'll start weekly sprays hoping to avoid what he went through. I am growing outdoors in a hoop stye greenhouse in grow bags, but the ends are open so anything can fly in. Just ordered some insect netting off amazon to hang, so hopefully that will help in the future. It won't get here for another 2-3 weeks, so who knows what will happen between now and then.


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## deadjon (Aug 26, 2019)

Great thread, with a ton of great suggestions.

I'm giving all my plants a Montery BT treatment tonight / again this weekend. I have 3 autoflowers that are too close to harvest to spray however....

Other than manually picking them out & installing some bug netting, any other tips?

So far, I think I've been lucky, only found about 10-20 little worms total on the plants....


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## ThailandBound (Aug 26, 2019)

deadjon said:


> Great thread, with a ton of great suggestions.
> 
> I'm giving all my plants a Montery BT treatment tonight / again this weekend. I have 3 autoflowers that are too close to harvest to spray however....
> 
> ...


I have read that you can us BT right up to harvest, then on the other hand, I've read it is fine to use up to 2 weeks before harvest. I tend to lean on the "up to harvest" a little more because you aren't spraying a chemical per se. I have also read that some people will do a quick hydrogen peroxide dip at harvest (can't remember the dilution rate at this time) followed by a clean water rinse to eliminate stuff that may be on the flowers. Then I guess you dry as usual. I've never done any of it since this is my first time growing anything other than veggies and ornamental plants. It's all new to me... especially the drying and curing aspect, right now, I have no clue... guess I'll have about 6 weeks to figure it out, lol.


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## SuperNutz (Aug 26, 2019)

Damn it, had to cut out some rotted buds just now 4 weeks into flower on one of my Jack Herer. This weather is making it a pain to keep up with the BT spraying and it's supposed to rain till tomorrow afternoon. Gotta get these girls covered up asap so the BT doesn't keep getting washed off.


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## olaf687 (Aug 27, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> Damn it, had to cut out some rotted buds just now 4 weeks into flower on one of my Jack Herer. This weather is making it a pain to keep up with the BT spraying and it's supposed to rain till tomorrow afternoon. Gotta get these girls covered up asap so the BT doesn't keep getting washed off.


What state are you located in?


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## jbcCT (Aug 30, 2019)

ThailandBound said:


> I have read that you can us BT right up to harvest, then on the other hand, I've read it is fine to use up to 2 weeks before harvest. I tend to lean on the "up to harvest" a little more because you aren't spraying a chemical per se. I have also read that some people will do a quick hydrogen peroxide dip at harvest (can't remember the dilution rate at this time) followed by a clean water rinse to eliminate stuff that may be on the flowers. Then I guess you dry as usual. I've never done any of it since this is my first time growing anything other than veggies and ornamental plants. It's all new to me... especially the drying and curing aspect, right now, I have no clue... guess I'll have about 6 weeks to figure it out, lol.


I would agree with all these statements. I will continue to spray until a week or two before harvest. I'm spraying every 4-5 days.

I wash all my outdoor bud. I get two clean five gallon buckets. Few bottles of peroxide. I use a quarter bottle in bucket #1, plain water in bucket #2.

Outdoor picks up a certain amount of dust, small flies that get stuck, etc. The bud is so sticky and coated with resin it's almost waterproof. You ever put shoe waterproofer spray on your hand when you were a little kid and stick your hand in water. I find that that a decent wash actually aids in the curing process. I do a good wet trim, wash and hang. I manicure after drying for two weeks. 

I'm looking good so far. Not a single worm to be found. Critical stage as my feminized plants are stacking flower. My reg plants are starting to fill in. 

I know how depressing it is to go all season caring for plants to have them ruined by these disgusting worms. I lost half my plants last year. Instead of reacting to the problem when you visually see the worms you have to assume they will be there. If this proactive spraying approach doesn't I don't know what will. So far so good on this little experiment. Keep fighting the good fight boys.

I'm in Northeast U.S.

Got four strains this year. Grape pupil by Massmedical, feminized. Bohdi hells angel x snow lotis, Bohdi bubba kush x snow lotus and a mystery Indica, my son found a few seeds in a bag earlier in the year and they look ferocious.


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## jbcCT (Aug 30, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> Damn it, had to cut out some rotted buds just now 4 weeks into flower on one of my Jack Herer. This weather is making it a pain to keep up with the BT spraying and it's supposed to rain till tomorrow afternoon. Gotta get these girls covered up asap so the BT doesn't keep getting washed off.


I'm sorry to hear that man. Don't get discouraged. Keep spraying. Cutting out some brown is part of the outdoor game. You'll be able to salvage. One year they infected every one of my top colas. I wanted to fucking die. I know the feeling and it sucks balls. If your using Monterey BT you may want to run one batch at double strength. I know someone else asked you what state your in. If your in a non legal place please don't reveal the state out here but rather what part of the U.S are you in.


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## ThaiKwonDro (Aug 30, 2019)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


Beauty bro, ive been finding them damn worms too alot this year. Stay up cuz.


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## SuperNutz (Aug 30, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> I'm sorry to hear that man. Don't get discouraged. Keep spraying. Cutting out some brown is part of the outdoor game. You'll be able to salvage. One year they infected every one of my top colas. I wanted to fucking die. I know the feeling and it sucks balls. If your using Monterey BT you may want to run one batch at double strength. I know someone else asked you what state your in. If your in a non legal place please don't reveal the state out here but rather what part of the U.S are you in.


Haven't been able to spray BT in a week, rain everyday or morning and then the fog saturating everything. Been spraying neem every few days when it's dry enough to combat powdery mildew. Haven't seen a worm since the last round of BT though so I'm thinking all these different wasps, mantis, etc are eating good. Been working on my greenhouse to keep the rain and fog off them past couple days, should be done tomorrow and if there's time before dark or rain I'm going to hit them and let them dry before covering the roof and partial sides.


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## jbcCT (Sep 1, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> Haven't been able to spray BT in a week, rain everyday or morning and then the fog saturating everything. Been spraying neem every few days when it's dry enough to combat powdery mildew. Haven't seen a worm since the last round of BT though so I'm thinking all these different wasps, mantis, etc are eating good. Been working on my greenhouse to keep the rain and fog off them past couple days, should be done tomorrow and if there's time before dark or rain I'm going to hit them and let them dry before covering the roof and partial sides.


My grape pupils got hit with a little powdery, early in veg, on a few lower leaves. I have a copper soap fungicide and it stopped that shit dead in it's tracks. 

On another note, I grow sunflowers for the hell of it. Was observing worms eating out of the flower heads. Small too. Maybe a week old. Not a single one on my plants though.


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## RipeLoud (Sep 1, 2019)

My single female shows no sign, *now*, of the dreaded *BUD WORMS*.

I have sprayed every two days, Monterey BT, since seeing 4-6 small worms, and have checked the plant daily as instructed by members here, nothing visible since the on Labor Day 9/2/19 second application.

Although my production is not like others here, I consider it a success based on, my space or grow area, govt restrictions, as well as my personal usage. 

Dorian is headed towards the coast, it will not impose a danger to me or my single lady, other than several days of rain, I plan on harvesting her tomorrow on Labor Day 9/2/19 ? Will 2-3 days of rain affect the potency?

(Picture below for opinions)

Everyone here takes pride in their accomplishments in the garden, and are more than willing to share the experience and knowledge, that's what makes it work.
*THANKS TO ALL FOR THE HELP AND ADVISE
 
Not a good Pict.*


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## jbcCT (Sep 1, 2019)

RipeLoud said:


> My single female shows no sign, *now*, of the dreaded *BUD WORMS*.
> 
> I have sprayed every two days, Monterey BT, since seeing 4-6 small worms, and have checked the plant daily as instructed by members here, nothing visible since the on Labor Day 9/2/19 second application.
> 
> ...


Really glad it worked out for you. It's such a unique plant and to get to watch it grow is something special.

Guy down the street from me was only able to do one plant this season as well. He called me in a panick first week of July as his plant was covered in worms. Was still in veg. I made him up a sprayer of BT, he got his own Monterey and has been doing a 3-5 day spray schedule and has been clean ever since.

So congrats on the plant, looks good, let us know it turns out.


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## deadjon (Sep 3, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> I would agree with all these statements. I will continue to spray until a week or two before harvest. I'm spraying every 4-5 days.
> 
> I wash all my outdoor bud. I get two clean five gallon buckets. Few bottles of peroxide. I use a quarter bottle in bucket #1, plain water in bucket #2.
> 
> ...


mass medical strains are amazing, and grown a lot outdoors in the North East US, so they're generally hearty too.


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## Longsmoker (Sep 4, 2019)

potroast said:


> For budworms, you should spray your plants every 3 weeks with BT, a beneficial bacteria, throughout their veg state, and the first half of flowering. That will keep the worms from growing on your plants. And that way, you don't have to spray your ripening buds.
> 
> BT will affect the taste of your bud if used too late in the season. It's just fine to wash your plants before harvest. Even my indoor plants are sometimes taken outside on harvest day and sprayed down well with a fine spray, and then dried for a couple of hours and harvested.
> 
> HTH


Neem!!!!!!!!!


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## jbcCT (Sep 4, 2019)

deadjon said:


> mass medical strains are amazing, and grown a lot outdoors in the North East US, so they're generally hearty too.


Good to hear from you on this. I got that feminized grape pupil and I am getting excited. It's almost turning a blackish purple. I've read a few threads on massmedical out here and some people were poo pooing the yields. Which I don't think is true, these things are stacking and will finish by the end of September, my bodhi strains won't finish till end of October. I started the grape a week ahead of bodhi mid May.

One of the reasons I bought massmedical is because it's from Western Mass and he grows these organic and I'm in the same region diff state. Fucking tap water and certainly not metered which is my style outdoors.


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## jbcCT (Sep 4, 2019)

Longsmoker said:


> Neem!!!!!!!!!


This guy nailed it. I new I wasn't reinventing the wheel. I wash my bud too.

On a side I found something interesting and it's inside the topic;

Guilty pleasure is Joe Rogan podcast. Recent podcast #1341 he has a game ranger out of CA who developed a team that busts illegal cartel grows in the U.S. One of the things that struck me. The Mexicans are importing a pesticide so toxic that when a bust occurs they let the grow cool down for two weeks before cleaning it up cause the site is so hot with pesticide. Lot of poison product out there and it destroys out waterways and wildlife and these guys also clean up the mess. Definitely worth a listen boys


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## potroastV2 (Sep 5, 2019)

Longsmoker said:


> Neem!!!!!!!!!



Thanks for digging up my post from 2008. If your one-word response means that Neem oil will take care of bud worms, I'm not sure that is accurate. I've always used Neem Oil, and still have worms. I've also used BT and still have worms.

This year I installed a Dyna-Trap and it attracts all kinds of small moths, and I've sprayed with SoluNeem and BT, and I am seeing some worm damage.


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## deadjon (Sep 5, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> Good to hear from you on this. I got that feminized grape pupil and I am getting excited. It's almost turning a blackish purple. I've read a few threads on massmedical out here and some people were poo pooing the yields. Which I don't think is true, these things are stacking and will finish by the end of September, my bodhi strains won't finish till end of October. I started the grape a week ahead of bodhi mid May.
> 
> One of the reasons I bought massmedical is because it's from Western Mass and he grows these organic and I'm in the same region diff state. Fucking tap water and certainly not metered which is my style outdoors.


I follow a few talented growers and they crush the MM stuff... but you know how it goes. I am in MA like they are, so the hearty plants. grown in the same environment in organic soil really appeals to me. He's mega into uplifting sativa's tho, I think they've only got 1 or 2 real couch lock strains.


rollitup said:


> Thanks for digging up my post from 2008. If your one-word response means that Neem oil will take care of bud worms, I'm not sure that is accurate. I've always used Neem Oil, and still have worms. I've also used BT and still have worms.
> 
> This year I installed a Dyna-Trap and it attracts all kinds of small moths, and I've sprayed with SoluNeem and BT, and I am seeing some worm damage.


Yea, I think anyone / everyone has to really got to develop a multi-faceted IPM approach. Using several organic types of pesticide sprays, beneficial pests & regular sweeps of the plants and surrounding area is the best approach. Start with your routine early in the season, never stop because "you don't see bugs". My early auto crop got worms cause I relaxed my approach given I never saw any bugs. Now that the nights are longer & colder I think moths (and the worms the start as) really kick into high gear.)

For reference I'm using Trifecta, Montery BT & now Urb, along with a lot of checking the plants, shaking them out after rainfall and making sure nothing takes hold early.

Oh, I too am using those yellow tacky paper gnat / small fly traps. Simple and effective.


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## jbcCT (Sep 5, 2019)

deadjon said:


> I follow a few talented growers and they crush the MM stuff... but you know how it goes. I am in MA like they are, so the hearty plants. grown in the same environment in organic soil really appeals to me. He's mega into uplifting sativa's tho, I think they've only got 1 or 2 real couch lock strains.
> 
> Yea, I think anyone / everyone has to really got to develop a multi-faceted IPM approach. Using several organic types of pesticide sprays, beneficial pests & regular sweeps of the plants and surrounding area is the best approach. Start with your routine early in the season, never stop because "you don't see bugs". My early auto crop got worms cause I relaxed my approach given I never saw any bugs. Now that the nights are longer & colder I think moths (and the worms the start as) really kick into high gear.)
> 
> ...


Funny you should mention don't stop cause you don't see bugs.

One of my favorite things to do when I get home from work is to inspect my plants, at night, with an LED flash light. I've been spraying BT since July and I just picked a worm of a top cola. Now mind you, he was dark brown and he ate some BT but it reminded me, don't stop.

I'm still seeing moths too. DO NOT STOP SPRAYING BOYS. They love that stinky flower and they will destroy your top colas. I just soaked the whole crop. I haven't seen any frass (worm piss & shit) but there is no way I'm losing the show this close to the finish line. Listen to this guy who posted this original response. Do not stop now people. I'm looking clean as can be but If I stop now those nasty worms wanna steal my flower. I've come to appreciate how destructive worms/ caterpillars can be not only on bud but commercial and small produce gardens. They are the destroyer of worlds.

As for massmedical I really love the whole vibe he works off of. Definitely gonna run the star pupil next year.


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## jbcCT (Sep 5, 2019)

On a positive note though, this time last year I was reacting to the problem instead of constantly trying to prevent the problem. I had bud rot on several prized colas. This year I'm in the best shape I've ever been. Counting the worm I pulled tonight it's only the second all year I had a visual on. That was not the case at the end of last summer. Keep fighting the good fight people.


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## SuperNutz (Sep 5, 2019)

Finally got them all BT'ed last night and tonight for the first time in weeks. Wind completely stopped at dark last night so was running out moving the fan around a bunch of times lol. Still a couple weeks without seeing a worm, thinking the yellow jackets are doing most of my heavy lifting. Everyday I see them searching my buds like a honey bee on flowers. Starting to like them so much I don't even swap them when they land on me anymore lol. Next year I'm thinking of getting night vision goggles so I can spray anytime during the night lmao, I'm serious too.


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## SuperNutz (Sep 5, 2019)

Mother fucking son of a whore. Was 0% chance of rain tonight, now I just pull up the radar and there is a blob the size of Wisconsin crossing Lake Michigan coming right at me... ffs, wtf?


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## deadjon (Sep 6, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> On a positive note though, this time last year I was reacting to the problem instead of constantly trying to prevent the problem. I had bud rot on several prized colas. This year I'm in the best shape I've ever been. Counting the worm I pulled tonight it's only the second all year I had a visual on. That was not the case at the end of last summer. Keep fighting the good fight people.


awesome to hear, so far no bud rot on my end, and we only had to pull the some autos early due to worms (and my shitty IPM... I'm getting better!)

We're gonna get a ton of rain here in MA tonight / tomorrow, so I'm gonna bring the haze indoors and cover the final outdoor auto & hope for the best. It's still got a week or two before it's finished.


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## CanadianJim (Sep 6, 2019)

Anyone know if bt has a shelf life? My dad just offered me his, but it's been in his garage, which means it might be older than me, lol. Definitely more than a year.


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## deadjon (Sep 6, 2019)

CanadianJim said:


> Anyone know if bt has a shelf life? My dad just offered me his, but it's been in his garage, which means it might be older than me, lol. Definitely more than a year.


2 - 3 years according to this source - https://cals.arizona.edu/yavapai/anr/hort/byg/archive/Bacillusthuringiensis2009.html


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## CanadianJim (Sep 6, 2019)

deadjon said:


> 2 - 3 years according to this source - https://cals.arizona.edu/yavapai/anr/hort/byg/archive/Bacillusthuringiensis2009.html


Awesome, thanks!


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## Mr.GoodBudz (Sep 7, 2019)

Has anyone tried spinosad garden insect spray from Monterey on flowering plants? Just curious because I’ve been using b.t for years and it helps keep the numbers down but doesn’t stop them. Here’s my small garden in SoCal strains are all from Darkheart Nursery 1 Venom og 1 watermelon x Zkittles and 1 Mirage


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## sbcbd (Sep 7, 2019)

Wow that’s looking nice! 

I’m considering a outdoor grow next year, is there anything available in the stores to keep those bugs off?


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## ThailandBound (Sep 7, 2019)

Mr.GoodBudz said:


> Has anyone tried spinosad garden insect spray from Monterey on flowering plants? Just curious because I’ve been using b.t for years and it helps keep the numbers down but doesn’t stop them. Here’s my small garden in SoCal strains are all from Darkheart Nursery 1 Venom og 1 watermelon x Zkittles and 1 Mirage
> 
> View attachment 4390934


Just bought a quart of it to use "if" the worms invade, which I suspect they will. I have read opinions ranging from stopping its use two weeks before harvest, to using it right up to harvest. Some people rinse their crop in a hydrogen peroxide solution followed by a water dip to clean it, some don't. Right now, my issue is powdery mildew, not so much worms. Good luck!


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## SuperNutz (Sep 7, 2019)

sbcbd said:


> Wow that’s looking nice!
> 
> I’m considering a outdoor grow next year, is there anything available in the stores to keep those bugs off?


There is everything in the store, amazon, etc.


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## jbcCT (Sep 7, 2019)

deadjon said:


> I follow a few talented growers and they crush the MM stuff... but you know how it goes. I am in MA like they are, so the hearty plants. grown in the same environment in organic soil really appeals to me. He's mega into uplifting sativa's tho, I think they've only got 1 or 2 real couch lock strains.
> 
> Yea, I think anyone / everyone has to really got to develop a multi-faceted IPM approach. Using several organic types of pesticide sprays, beneficial pests & regular sweeps of the plants and surrounding area is the best approach. Start with your routine early in the season, never stop because "you don't see bugs". My early auto crop got worms cause I relaxed my approach given I never saw any bugs. Now that the nights are longer & colder I think moths (and the worms the start as) really kick into high gear.)
> 
> ...


Your assessment of the fall worm season is spot on. They love that stinky flower. Just got in from a night time BT sweep. You really can't let up. It's like a running gun battle. They attack the tops too. Be one thing if they hit a bottom piece. Was out there with an LED flashlight. Love that night time check, they glow pink. I'm seeing nice healthy tops. Perfect white hairs. I'm increasing my spraying in fall to every 3 days.


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## jbcCT (Sep 7, 2019)

Some of the massmedical grape...

and a bodhi hells angel x snow lotus...

From my backyard a few minutes ago.


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## SuperNutz (Sep 7, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> Some of the massmedical grape...
> 
> and a bodhi hells angel x snow lotus...
> 
> From my backyard a few minutes ago.


Looking purdy...


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## jbcCT (Sep 7, 2019)

Bodhi bubba kush x snow lotus. Weird pheno maybe. Purple stems all year. Lime green alien leaves.

and a pinkish massmedical.....

Come on people, throw up some garden photos...


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## jbcCT (Sep 7, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> Looking purdy...


Thank you sir. Love this time of the year. Although I miss summer....getting dank in the backyard though.....


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## SuperNutz (Sep 7, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> Thank you sir. Love this time of the year. Although I miss summer....getting dank in the backyard though.....


Some of mine are sweet, some smell like straight up lemon scented household cleaners. I miss winter man, sleep and eat, repeat. I've been a landscaper for 23 years so winter is my vacation and or sleep and eat and binge watch TV.


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## stray77 (Sep 8, 2019)




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## Mr.GoodBudz (Sep 8, 2019)

stray77 said:


> View attachment 4391544


 Yup, those are the start to those little bastards!!


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## Mr.GoodBudz (Sep 8, 2019)

ThailandBound said:


> Just bought a quart of it to use "if" the worms invade, which I suspect they will. I have read opinions ranging from stopping its use two weeks before harvest, to using it right up to harvest. Some people rinse their crop in a hydrogen peroxide solution followed by a water dip to clean it, some don't. Right now, my issue is powdery mildew, not so much worms. Good luck!


Ya that’s one good thing living in SoCal is that I don’t really have to worry about P.M. Neem oil works good for P.M. as long as they aren’t flowering. I’ve heard of people using hydrogen peroxide but I’m to scared to do that so close to the end. I’ve also heard the same thing about spinosad that you can use it up to 2 weeks and up to day of harvest just not sure which one is true. Anyways good luck bud on your grow!


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## See green (Sep 8, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> Bodhi bubba kush x snow lotus. Weird pheno maybe. Purple stems all year. Lime green alien leaves.
> 
> and a pinkish massmedical.....
> 
> Come on people, throw up some garden photos...


I sprayed captn jacks spinosad tonight. Ive been doing BT ~every 7 days. I do a rotation BT twice then spinosad It seems to work well for me. I will continue for about another 2 weeks then stop. You will be risking bud rot once the flowers get thick. Then all the worm prevention will have been for nothing...
Bodhi dream lotus

Bodhi soul mate
 
Green point cookies n chem


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## jbcCT (Sep 10, 2019)

Mr.GoodBudz said:


> Has anyone tried spinosad garden insect spray from Monterey on flowering plants? Just curious because I’ve been using b.t for years and it helps keep the numbers down but doesn’t stop them. Here’s my small garden in SoCal strains are all from Darkheart Nursery 1 Venom og 1 watermelon x Zkittles and 1 Mirage
> 
> View attachment 4390934



I have not tried it. Tell us about it. 

I've found myself that you have to really stay on top of BT. I'm heading into fall and have been soaking them every three days. These look to be my cleanest outdoor crops ever.

They tend to attack you top colas. All I see are nice clean white hairs, which they love to eat.


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## jbcCT (Sep 10, 2019)

Mr.GoodBudz said:


> Ya that’s one good thing living in SoCal is that I don’t really have to worry about P.M. Neem oil works good for P.M. as long as they aren’t flowering. I’ve heard of people using hydrogen peroxide but I’m to scared to do that so close to the end. I’ve also heard the same thing about spinosad that you can use it up to 2 weeks and up to day of harvest just not sure which one is true. Anyways good luck bud on your grow!


The idea is to wash the bud with a peroxide solution and then in a bucket of clean water as you harvest. Outdoor bud picks up dust and all sorts of stuff. Not spraying it on live plants.


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## deadjon (Sep 10, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> I have not tried it. Tell us about it.
> 
> I've found myself that you have to really stay on top of BT. I'm heading into fall and have been soaking them every three days. These look to be my cleanest outdoor crops ever.
> 
> They tend to attack you top colas. All I see are nice clean white hairs, which they love to eat.


I was doing alternating weeks of Montery BT and Trifecta, but you're spot on, need to do each weekly at this time of the year. It's a chore!


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## deadjon (Sep 10, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> The idea is to wash the bud with a peroxide solution and then in a bucket of clean water as you harvest. Outdoor bud picks up dust and all sorts of stuff. Not spraying it on live plants.


Yea, it's a "hotly" debated topic, but for outdoor grows where you've almost got to use some sprays, I'm for it. 3 buckets, peroxide in one, water / lemon juice / baking soda the next ,water only the third. Dip and "swoosh" and then hang to dry...

(I've never done it, I'm scared... but I'm gonna with my last crop of this season (It's been soaked...)


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## budsfordayz (Sep 10, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> The idea is to wash the bud with a peroxide solution and then in a bucket of clean water as you harvest. Outdoor bud picks up dust and all sorts of stuff. Not spraying it on live plants.


Just a question what does dipping buds in water actually clean? I can see it cleaning the outside of the bud... but I can’t imagine my 2l pop bottle colas being “cleaned” of all the crap in them by just dipping them in water or anything else for that matter. Unless I have a bad grow and get all larf that is lol 

Wouldn’t the majority of the dirt/bugs/dust be in the inside as the plant continues to stack and swell?


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## jbcCT (Sep 10, 2019)

You watch to wash off any dust, dirt and tiny flies tend to get glued on. I put a quarter bottle (small) of peroxide into a five gallon bucket so it's well diluted. I dip the branch in the solution shake it around a bit, you'll see the loose debris float to the top. Then dunk it a few times in a clean bucket of water.

Does not impact the quality in any way. The stuff is so sticky with resin it's almost waterproof. 

I gave the example of spraying sneaker waterproofer on your hand (when you were a kid, lol) and then sticking your hand in water and your hand comes out almost dry. 

Lot of guys doing outdoor wash the bud. We're not talking about scrubbing the stuff, just getting off loose debris, sterilize it a little bit. 

I find it really dries nicely after a little bath.


----------



## CanadianJim (Sep 10, 2019)

Jorge Cervantes has a how-to video on YouTube. Pretty much exactly as @jbcCT described it.


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## jbcCT (Sep 10, 2019)

budsfordayz said:


> Just a question what does dipping buds in water actually clean? I can see it cleaning the outside of the bud... but I can’t imagine my 2l pop bottle colas being “cleaned” of all the crap in them by just dipping them in water or anything else for that matter. Unless I have a bad grow and get all larf that is lol
> 
> Wouldn’t the majority of the dirt/bugs/dust be in the inside as the plant continues to stack and swell?


I hear what your saying about the internals. I'm anal about how clean my bud is. Prior to washing my branches I'm doing a wet trim and thorough inspection. Using my hand trimmer blade to pull apart the bug a bit. Looking for that black grit or any other signs of damage. I don't want anything infected hitting the rack.

But the bud wash does catch the dust and small flies.


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## jbcCT (Sep 10, 2019)

deadjon said:


> Yea, it's a "hotly" debated topic, but for outdoor grows where you've almost got to use some sprays, I'm for it. 3 buckets, peroxide in one, water / lemon juice / baking soda the next ,water only the third. Dip and "swoosh" and then hang to dry...
> 
> (I've never done it, I'm scared... but I'm gonna with my last crop of this season (It's been soaked...)


Agree. You can't grow outside without treating the plants. Back when weed came almost exclusively from Mexico they were nuking it with poison.

A few posts back I posted a recent podcast of Joe Rogan where he had a game warden on that busts illegal cartel grows on U.S soil. They were smuggling in toxic Mexican pesticides to treat with. Worth a listen.


----------



## potroastV2 (Sep 10, 2019)

I've never dunked my harvested plants. I just spray the entire plant really well with a hose. I use a fine spray, and completely soak the buds. Then I let the plant dry in the sun, and harvest.

I always do that for my indoor plants, too, take them outside, and give them a good shower before harvest.


----------



## jbcCT (Sep 10, 2019)

God damnit guys. I'm doing my nightly LED inspection and there is powdery mildew on one of my purples. I had it hit a few purps early in veg but fungicide knocked it out. So lower branches only at this point on the one plant. Isolated the patient. Hit impacted areas with fungicide. Will remove those sections tomorrow. Supposed to be over 85 tomorrow so that will help. 

It's like a God dammed running gun battle sometimes. I've never seen this on any Bodhi strains by the way. Glad I saw it though. Can't let that shit get a toe hold so to speak.

Take it in stride I suppose.


----------



## jbcCT (Sep 10, 2019)

CanadianJim said:


> Jorge Cervantes has a how-to video on YouTube. Pretty much exactly as @jbcCT described it.


Link that for us please.


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## jbcCT (Sep 10, 2019)

ThailandBound said:


> Just bought a quart of it to use "if" the worms invade, which I suspect they will. I have read opinions ranging from stopping its use two weeks before harvest, to using it right up to harvest. Some people rinse their crop in a hydrogen peroxide solution followed by a water dip to clean it, some don't. Right now, my issue is powdery mildew, not so much worms. Good luck!



Remember your post. Found a few spots on one of my plants tonight. What fungicide are you using? Has it been effective? What are your daytime high temps? 

I'm using a copper soap fungicide. Used it alot on cucumber plants who are very prone to powdery. It's strong. It starts eating it away on contact.

Keep fighting the good fight.


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## jbcCT (Sep 10, 2019)

stray77 said:


> View attachment 4391544


Holy hell that thing is huge.


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## jbcCT (Sep 10, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> Link that for us please.








He uses granules for large crops, too much to spray. So you sprinkle that sh*t and head to the ground to eat it Jorge?

If I was dealing with large crops I would use a hose sprayer attachment that you pour the concentrate in. Jorge is the man though so granules must be effective on larger grows.


----------



## SuperNutz (Sep 10, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> He uses granules for large crops, too much to spray. So you sprinkle that sh*t and head to the ground to eat it Jorge?
> 
> If I was dealing with large crops I would use a hose sprayer attachment that you pour the concentrate in. Jorge is the man though so granules must be effective on larger grows.


LOL, I can't watch that space case. Or the Kaligrownbudz dude. Guess I got too much east coast left in me that Jorge makes me sleepy and the other guy with the sound affects makes me want to slap him lmao.


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## stray77 (Sep 10, 2019)

If it weren't for closeup's I'd never spot the eggs. This is my first outdoor. I haven't done any pest prevention to this point besides hosing it off, plucking damaged leaves and keeping a close eye on it. I have at my disposal, pyrethrin 0.2%/ Piperonyl butoxide 1.0% powder, diatomaceous earth 100% powder(silicon dioxide 80%), soap, water, baking soda, ph down (phosphoric acid) and Green Earth concentrated horticultural oil (which I'm trying to confirm is just neem but I'm still looking, my label is illegible). Suggestions welcome. This image is from today.


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## SuperNutz (Sep 10, 2019)

stray77 said:


> View attachment 4392652 If it weren't for closeup's I'd never spot the eggs. This is my first outdoor. I haven't done any pest prevention to this point besides hosing it off, plucking damaged leaves and keeping a close eye on it. I have at my disposal, pyrethrin 0.2%/ Piperonyl butoxide 1.0% powder, diatomaceous earth 100% powder(silicon dioxide 80%), soap, water, baking soda, ph down (phosphoric acid) and Green Earth concentrated horticultural oil (which I'm trying to confirm is just neem but I'm still looking, my label is illegible). Suggestions welcome. This image is from today.


Something about the skull and crossbones with the words CANCER POISON.... uhhh thinking it's not neem.


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## stray77 (Sep 10, 2019)

Ya you're right, I couldn't read my label and didn't actually read the one on the photo. Says 99% mineral oil, which is a petroleum distillate of some sort (so much for Green Earth). Looking closer at my labels, the pyrethrin is Doktor Doom, and the dude in the video above said it'll work but I'll definitely order some neem as well as BT, any recommended brands?


----------



## SuperNutz (Sep 10, 2019)

stray77 said:


> Ya you're right, I couldn't read my label and didn't actually read the one on the photo. Says 99% mineral oil, which is a petroleum distillate of some sort (so much for Green Earth). Looking closer at my labels, the pyrethrin is Doktor Doom, and the dude in the video above said it'll work but I'll definitely order some neem as well as BT, any recommended brands?


As long as the Neem Oil is 100% cold pressed it should be good because it will have the Azadirachta that the "Extracts" don't have. I use Dyna brand neem oil. BT I use Monterey as was recommended to me by a few people here. Watching these moths right now on night vision lol... idk if it's too late but I may add bat housing to my wooded area to attract more of them for the night moths. Yellow jackets are killing it on caterpillar patrol but these moths are everywhere at night.


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## SuperNutz (Sep 11, 2019)

stray77 said:


> Ya you're right, I couldn't read my label and didn't actually read the one on the photo. Says 99% mineral oil, which is a petroleum distillate of some sort (so much for Green Earth). Looking closer at my labels, the pyrethrin is Doktor Doom, and the dude in the video above said it'll work but I'll definitely order some neem as well as BT, any recommended brands?


Too, my bug zapper kills a couple hundred moths a night, if you got one hang it 100 feet away and keep that sucker on. Or 10 feet away with a garbage can lid or something blocking the light from the plants... I forget not everyone is in the boonies like me lol.


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## CanadianJim (Sep 11, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> Link that for us please.






I'm a couple years too early to really know how to put vids in the messages like you did, but here you go.
edit: and the internet did it for me lol


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## kds710 (Sep 11, 2019)

Noticed a buldge on the stock with a thumbtack size hole. Day later this stuff was oozing out of it, so I performed surgery with a razor blade and caught the bastard a little further ways up from the opening pictured. Found 1 more on a different stock so removed both stocks. Luckily no damage was really done yet, i myself did more by chopping the 2 big top stocks off


----------



## Longsmoker (Sep 11, 2019)

KushKing949 said:


> i hate them bastards i have to go out into my garden every morning with latex gloves and tweasers and pick the fuckers outta my sweet smelling buds and clean up the mess they made if that means chopping and throwing away buds i also find tons of eggs as well and fuck its just so many..good thing i got alot of colas that arent infested yet im not afraid to dig into my sticky buds to make sure they are clean this is my first grow and i will be prepared for em next yr.


I noticed yesterday one of my outdoor plants had a couple buds were the pistals browned at the tip...I freaked,but didnt dind anything initially. I finally found what looked to be a tiny caterpillar and squished the fucker...I cant find anymore but the plant is 6 weeks in flower..this was the only plant effected...help


----------



## stray77 (Sep 11, 2019)

kds710 said:


> Noticed a buldge on the stock with a thumbtack size hole. Day later this stuff was oozing out of it, so I performed surgery with a razor blade and caught the bastard a little further ways up from the opening pictured. Found 1 more on a different stock so removed both stocks. Luckily no damage was really done yet, i myself did more by chopping the 2 big top stocks off



Thanks, great pics, I knew they burrowed into buds but damn, now I'm going to have nightmares. I'm going to treat with BT (Bacillus Thuringiensis) first, If that doesn't work, I'll treat with pyrethrin now that I know I'll be washing my buds anyway.


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## jbcCT (Sep 11, 2019)

kds710 said:


> Noticed a buldge on the stock with a thumbtack size hole. Day later this stuff was oozing out of it, so I performed surgery with a razor blade and caught the bastard a little further ways up from the opening pictured. Found 1 more on a different stock so removed both stocks. Luckily no damage was really done yet, i myself did more by chopping the 2 big top stocks off
> 
> View attachment 4392809 View attachment 4392810 View attachment 4392813



Wow man. That's unbelievable. I never would have thought they could get into the stem. Mind blowing. Caterpillars and worms are the worst pests.


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## jbcCT (Sep 11, 2019)

CanadianJim said:


> I'm a couple years too early to really know how to put vids in the messages like you did, but here you go.
> edit: and the internet did it for me lol


Awesome. Thank you. I think a lot of people are going to find this helpful. It's okay to wash your buds boys. Dealing with a little powdery myself on one of my strains. Only one plant so far. I trimmed off the lower impacted area earlier today. I wonder if you can spray a water / peroxide solution right on to the plant.


----------



## jbcCT (Sep 11, 2019)

Longsmoker said:


> I noticed yesterday one of my outdoor plants had a couple buds were the pistals browned at the tip...I freaked,but didnt dind anything initially. I finally found what looked to be a tiny caterpillar and squished the fucker...I cant find anymore but the plant is 6 weeks in flower..this was the only plant effected...help


Get yourself a spray and Monterey BT quick. Every plant you have needs to be sprayed.


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## jbcCT (Sep 11, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> Something about the skull and crossbones with the words CANCER POISON.... uhhh thinking it's not neem.


Holy shit good catch.


----------



## Longsmoker (Sep 11, 2019)

stray77 said:


> Thanks, great pics, I knew they burrowed into buds but damn, now I'm going to have nightmares. I'm going to treat with BT (Bacillus Thuringiensis) first, If that doesn't work, I'll treat with pyrethrin now that I know I'll be washing my buds anyway.


Found some of little pricks myself this morning...only got to two bud tips...cit them of and spray begins....bt


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## Longsmoker (Sep 11, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> Get yourself a spray and Monterey BT quick. Every plant you have needs to be sprayed.


Done...and thanks


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## Longsmoker (Sep 11, 2019)

kds710 said:


> Noticed a buldge on the stock with a thumbtack size hole. Day later this stuff was oozing out of it, so I performed surgery with a razor blade and caught the bastard a little further ways up from the opening pictured. Found 1 more on a different stock so removed both stocks. Luckily no damage was really done yet, i myself did more by chopping the 2 big top stocks off
> 
> View attachment 4392809 View attachment 4392810 View attachment 4392813


I had no idea they could get in stems..thats just wrong


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## xtsho (Sep 11, 2019)

kds710 said:


> Noticed a buldge on the stock with a thumbtack size hole. Day later this stuff was oozing out of it, so I performed surgery with a razor blade and caught the bastard a little further ways up from the opening pictured. Found 1 more on a different stock so removed both stocks. Luckily no damage was really done yet, i myself did more by chopping the 2 big top stocks off
> 
> View attachment 4392809 View attachment 4392810 View attachment 4392813



Now that is disgusting


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## jbcCT (Sep 11, 2019)

Longsmoker said:


> Done...and thanks


Let us know how it turns out. I would soak them every two to three days at this point. Soak em man. 

Little bastards love taking top colas. It would be one thing if they took a piece on the bottom or something but no, they want our prime real estate.


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## jbcCT (Sep 11, 2019)

So another day in the garden. Removed all lower bud impacted by the powdery. Did a general clean up on all plants snapping off any yellowing leaves. I noticed they yellowed leaves retain a decent amount of moisture. Like a petri dish. Mixed up a 32 oz sprayer with a peroxide water mix and gently misted the whole crop to prevent any spores from spreading.

When I removed the lower impacted bud, I dug in for an inspection. Not a single worm found and I really dug in. This grape pupil is dank as hell so to see no worms in smaller lower colas is a good sign. Not seein any tops with white hairs mauled over on any of my strains.

Still can't believe that guy who had the worms in the stalks from the earlier post. That's madness. Little bastards.


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## jbcCT (Sep 11, 2019)

kds710 said:


> Noticed a buldge on the stock with a thumbtack size hole. Day later this stuff was oozing out of it, so I performed surgery with a razor blade and caught the bastard a little further ways up from the opening pictured. Found 1 more on a different stock so removed both stocks. Luckily no damage was really done yet, i myself did more by chopping the 2 big top stocks off
> 
> View attachment 4392809 View attachment 4392810 View attachment 4392813


Still can't believe you found that on two stalks. Amazing. Looks like it entered where the branch / node meets the stalk.


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## SCJedi (Sep 11, 2019)

Today on my Golden Goat S1


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## SuperNutz (Sep 11, 2019)

SCJedi said:


> Today on my Golden Goat S1
> 
> View attachment 4393168


Lil sumbitch is almost camouflaged lol.


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## SCJedi (Sep 11, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> Lil sumbitch is almost camouflaged lol.


I must've stunned it earlier with neem/karanja as it wouldn't move. No other reason to be fully exposed in the sun and it didn't move when I poked at it. I stuck it to the closest yellow martyr trap. I will wait but soak all with BT in short order.


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## UncleBuck (Sep 11, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> Lil sumbitch is almost camouflaged lol.


I bet the Jews sent him in there as a secret agent to mass murder his buds so that the government would take our rights away 









Just kidding, only retarded neo Nazis come up with ridiculous shit like that


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## SuperNutz (Sep 11, 2019)

UncleBuck said:


> I bet the Jews sent him in there as a secret agent to mass murder his buds so that the government would take our rights away
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You talking more fake news you commie nutjob? Shouldn't you be in Berzerkeley burning an American flag?

​


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## xtsho (Sep 11, 2019)

I'm going to have nightmares tonight from those pictures that have been posted.


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## UncleBuck (Sep 12, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> You talking more fake news you commie nutjob? Shouldn't you be in Berzerkeley burning an American flag?
> 
> ​


Are you calling your own neo nazi conspiracy theory fake news?


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## norcaliwood (Sep 12, 2019)

Just my 2 cents about budworms,, I use to get them all the time here in PDX area... A spray with Captin Jacks Dead Bug Brew,, Spinosad,,, the first couple weeks in Sept and I haven't seen anymore.. The stuff will dissipate after acouple weeks.. And It's not important to get both sides of the leaf. Doesn't burn your buds either if used correctly.... 

Of course, it won't work on the boring worms.. Or not that I know of???? 

GL with the worms...


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## jbcCT (Sep 12, 2019)

SCJedi said:


> Today on my Golden Goat S1
> 
> View attachment 4393168


Son of a b*tch. They are taking top colas coast to coast. I've come to hate these rat bastards. They destroy beauty and the babies we've cared for. Welcome to the club not one you want to be in.....

Hang in there man and start spraying.


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## norcaliwood (Sep 12, 2019)

After reading this it reminded me it's that time for mine to get a spraying... 

Least catterpillers are easier to handle than the Hemp Mites that been plaguing Oregon lately.... The Super Borg


----------



## See green (Sep 13, 2019)

Who can spot the Caterpillar egg in this picture?


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## CanadianJim (Sep 13, 2019)

Not me, but is that a moth egg on the underside of that sugar leaf?


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## See green (Sep 13, 2019)

Yes thats it .I should of said moth egg. You are correct.


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## CanadianJim (Sep 13, 2019)

See green said:


> Yes thats it .I should of said moth egg. You are correct.


Sorry, I didn't see the word egg in your original message. I thought you just said caterpillar.


----------



## Sir Napsalot (Sep 13, 2019)

What kind of moth lays ONE egg?


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## SuperNutz (Sep 13, 2019)

idk but I found those last week and poured gas on it and torched the leaf lol.


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## stray77 (Sep 13, 2019)

This was all I could find on short notice. $11.99 CAD at Canadian Tire. I just hope that's not an expiry date above the label on the back.


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## CanadianJim (Sep 13, 2019)

stray77 said:


> This was all I could find on short notice. $11.99 CAD at Canadian Tire. I just hope that's not an expiry date above the label on the back.


If there's a date on there its supposed to be the date of manufacture. Mine got partially wiped off. It's supposed to be less effective more than 2 or 3 years from that.


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## jbcCT (Sep 13, 2019)

UncleBuck said:


> Are you calling your own neo nazi conspiracy theory fake news?


Got to be honest,


See green said:


> Who can spot the Caterpillar egg in this picture?View attachment 4393871


Great post, lol. I can't see it.


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## jbcCT (Sep 13, 2019)

Sir Napsalot said:


> What kind of moth lays ONE egg?
> 
> View attachment 4394055


[email protected]#ing wow. I found them laying those on the mesh of my screen tent. Same as last year.


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## jbcCT (Sep 13, 2019)

stray77 said:


> This was all I could find on short notice. $11.99 CAD at Canadian Tire. I just hope that's not an expiry date above the label on the back.


That's the stuff man. Concentrate I assume. Roll with bro. Get that sprayer ready pronto.


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## jbcCT (Sep 13, 2019)

SuperNutz said:


> idk but I found those last week and poured gas on it and torched the leaf lol.


Your a friggin mad man, love it. Blow torch them bitches.


----------



## jbcCT (Sep 13, 2019)

norcaliwood said:


> After reading this it reminded me it's that time for mine to get a spraying...
> 
> Least catterpillers are easier to handle than the Hemp Mites that been plaguing Oregon lately.... The Super Borg


Tells us about these hemp mites. Is it like the black plague of death or what. War stories from the front lines, this is a great thread.....


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## norcaliwood (Sep 13, 2019)

Hemp mites have wiped out more than one plant of mine... I'm dealing with afew this year..

  I'm trying a new product called Big Time Exterminator. The best product I've found for them so far is the Green Cleaner... But shit is costy when you have plants that are 9-10'. I use an atomizer to spray with. Makes it abit easier when you got alot of leaf mass to coat...


----------



## jbcCT (Sep 13, 2019)

norcaliwood said:


> Hemp mites have wiped out more than one plant of mine... I'm dealing with afew this year..
> 
> View attachment 4394168 View attachment 4394172 I'm trying a new product called Big Time Exterminator. The best product I've found for them so far is the Green Cleaner... But shit is costy when you have plants that are 9-10'. I use an atomizer to spray with. Makes it abit easier when you got alot of leaf mass to coat...


Holy sh*t. Us worm guys thought we had it bad. Is this similar to spider mites where you can see them and spray them off the plant? Are they attacking the leaf, stems? You have massive plants to deal with.

It's funny and cruel how nature tries to take this from us. I'm in the NE. Buddy of mine stopped by tonight. He's fighting to get his across the finish line. Has a rust fungus setting it on the flower. He's like, "how do those guys in CA, WA and OR deal with this shit?"

You gotta be like a [email protected]$ing ninja to do this sh*t but dam is it pleasing......

Your garden looks fantastic by the way.

Just got in from some night gardening patrol. Love being out there at night. Can still hear the bugs chirping, full moon tonight. Winter is a coming.....


----------



## Blazeon_ (Sep 14, 2019)

I just went to check on my almost finished auto beauties and found sooo many centipedes or whatever it is. So I'm picking those fuckers with tweezers and killing them.


----------



## jbcCT (Sep 15, 2019)

Blazeon_ said:


> I just went to check on my almost finished auto beauties and found sooo many centipedes or whatever it is. So I'm picking those fuckers with tweezers and killing them.


I respect your diligence but when you see worms, assume there are 5 times as many you can't see. You need BT. Next grow you'll pre-spray every three to five days. This way you won't be reacting to the problem but preventing it. 

Weather, bugs, we're all dealing with it. Welcome to the club.


----------



## Thedillestpickle (Sep 15, 2019)

Oh damn I haven't even looked for pests in my buds. I just assumed my plants are healthy and no PM, so they should be able to fend for themselves. Been going all season on just garden soil and water, they look good so far.


----------



## norcaliwood (Sep 15, 2019)

BT works I hear? I myself stick with Spinosad. Been working for me... If ain't broke,,, don't fix........ Still, ain't too late for Early Oct harvests.. GL Ya'll....


----------



## The Gram Reaper (Sep 15, 2019)

norcaliwood said:


> Hemp mites have wiped out more than one plant of mine... I'm dealing with afew this year..
> 
> View attachment 4394168 View attachment 4394172 I'm trying a new product called Big Time Exterminator. The best product I've found for them so far is the Green Cleaner... But shit is costy when you have plants that are 9-10'. I use an atomizer to spray with. Makes it abit easier when you got alot of leaf mass to coat...


Your plants are looking great!


----------



## deadjon (Sep 17, 2019)

norcaliwood said:


> BT works I hear? I myself stick with Spinosad. Been working for me... If ain't broke,,, don't fix........ Still, ain't too late for Early Oct harvests.. GL Ya'll....


Yea, I think spinosad lasts longer than BT montery spray, as far as I know BT is 2 - 3 days "lasting" and you need to reapply every week or so to stave off any new eggs that hatch. Spinosad supposedly lasts 1 - 2 weeks, so you don't need to reapply as often.

I suggest also mixing in a organic oil based spray in addition to these, like Trifecta or Green Juice. Best to have a layered approach to IPM.


----------



## jbcCT (Sep 17, 2019)

One of my plants this year was bag seed. My son had collected them. One turned lady and was a runt, foot tall into July. It's just hitting the stride now. I'm starting to cut the grape Saturday, not all of it is ready but these danker purple strains tend not to do as well in the colder weather. Very prone to mold spores cause it's just that dank. Got a little lucky with weather sunny and 75 till the weekend, mid 80s over the weekend, just what I needed.

Still spraying BT. I did back to back morning sprays Sunday and Monday. The moths are still out in full force dropping eggs.


----------



## norcaliwood (Sep 18, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> Holy sh*t. Us worm guys thought we had it bad. Is this similar to spider mites where you can see them and spray them off the plant? Are they attacking the leaf, stems? You have massive plants to deal with.
> 
> It's funny and cruel how nature tries to take this from us. I'm in the NE. Buddy of mine stopped by tonight. He's fighting to get his across the finish line. Has a rust fungus setting it on the flower. He's like, "how do those guys in CA, WA and OR deal with this shit?"
> 
> ...



These things are small. You can see them with a 45x loupe,, but to really make them out,, use a 60x. They actually bore in the stem and winter over inside infected stemage. Bud turn brown and dead... Starting at the lower middle spreading outward and upward. Matter a fact you could say it looks like rust too.. Next to impossible to control once flowering sets in. I made the mistake of using my soil again I think. But the best way to stop them is preventive. Some DE sprinkled around the soil will help. And if your in area prone to them spray your plants regularly while in veg up till 4 or 5 days into flower. Claims I hear is Green Cleaner from Old Stage is the best. Neem works, even Azamax while in veg. 

Not sure if I posted this here,,, but there is very little info out there on these bastards but here's a fast read;

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/control-broad-mites-russet-marijuana-times-called-hemp-tvedten


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## jbcCT (Sep 18, 2019)

norcaliwood said:


> These things are small. You can see them with a 45x loupe,, but to really make them out,, use a 60x. They actually bore in the stem and winter over inside infected stemage. Bud turn brown and dead... Starting at the lower middle spreading outward and upward. Matter a fact you could say it looks like rust too.. Next to impossible to control once flowering sets in. I made the mistake of using my soil again I think. But the best way to stop them is preventive. Some DE sprinkled around the soil will help. And if your in area prone to them spray your plants regularly while in veg up till 4 or 5 days into flower. Claims I hear is Green Cleaner from Old Stage is the best. Neem works, even Azamax while in veg.
> 
> Not sure if I posted this here,,, but there is very little info out there on these bastards but here's a fast read;
> 
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/control-broad-mites-russet-marijuana-times-called-hemp-tvedten


Holy hell in a hand basket. Someone asked me the other day how outdoor growers deal with all this shit. It struck me cause I know the feeling.


----------



## The Gram Reaper (Sep 18, 2019)

Michigan has been hell on outdoor growers for years, but now it is really upping the bullshit level. Good luck and I suggest getting indoors. It's not changing for the better.


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## jbcCT (Sep 18, 2019)

The Gram Reaper said:


> Michigan has been hell on outdoor growers for years, but now it is really upping the bullshit level. Good luck and I suggest getting indoors. It's not changing for the better.


Yeah, part of the fun of outdoor is how much clean crop can you turn in? Nature is going to take a piece. The game is how much you can steal back from nature. It's a formidable opponent. Throws alot at us. Nothing can replace our sun. That dank sticky. I hear ya on the indoor.

I just posted some pics up last night. Lost half my plants last year. This year I won't lose a single plant. I'll give up a few branches, we all do.


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## stray77 (Sep 19, 2019)

We're most of the way through harvesting two large (7' tall 5' wide) outdoor plants. So far the most interesting find was an m&m sized snail in one of the top colas, it slimed a small area which I cut out completely. I've had a couple batches of spider eggs/nest that needed to be cut out as well. As for pests, I've been picking tiny little black flies off the sticky trichomes here and there, we've found 1 batch of unhatched moth eggs (about 60 grey .2mm honeycombed eggs on the underside of a leaf near the tip.) but that's about it. No actual worms, very little insect damage. So far so good.


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## Gravypurps (Sep 20, 2019)

bterz said:


> wtf I thought this was all stuff up north.
> 
> If your plants are in pots does this reduce the chance of getting them....
> 
> Damn im scared now!!


Not at all.I had a rad bug free summer, no PM, no nada, then came the fucking rain.Three weeks later I'm cutting out caterpillars like crazy.


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## WizardWeed (Sep 21, 2019)

I found 7 baby spittle bugs spittliting it up on 2 lowest nugs on 1 plant. They were in their pouches of bubbles just eating and putting out spittle.


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## jbcCT (Sep 22, 2019)

We have had the best 7 day weather wise in New England. Mid 80's all weekend, dry, not a cloud in the sky.

Started harvesting the most mature grape first. How nice it was to wet trim and to see only one tiny dying worm ready to fall off. They turn dark brown once poisoned with BT. 

This grape also has the color of like a blood rasberry in the middle of the flower. Stunning.


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## Thegermling (Sep 22, 2019)

You guys need to put misquito netting over your plants next season. I ran autos in the summer (201 and I found one plant that had budworms. I did research and I found out that moths or butterflies lay these little round white eggs usually on the top colas. Those eggs bust out little worms that usually go inside the buds and they start eating from inside out. You can tell you have budworms when your pistils are turning brown too early. The caterpillars crawl across. If you miss that sign for some reason then youll notice that a part of a cola is slowly losing color and then it turns brown (like it has bud rot). Sugar leaves close to that area will lose color too. They will turn yellow slowly. Pry apart the bud in that area and youll find fucken tunnels where the worms bore through.
I heard BTk (Bacillus thuringiensis subspecies _kurstaki)_ is good to use even in flower. Make sure its the kurstaki in the BT. The worms eat this and they starve to death.


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## See green (Sep 23, 2019)

Cant keep them all out. I have only foud a few. The spaying of BT and spinosad really works well.


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## RBGene (Sep 23, 2019)

I can Smell em a mile away, They turn buds to mush with poop and can ruin a cola in no time flat.
If it's not white flies, or mites, or worms, there is always something after our "Lucky Charms".


----------



## Growing24/7 (Sep 23, 2019)

Don't know what the weed gods have been doing, still have yet to see a bud worm in any grow (only grown 8 plants total in my life, i guess its very minimal considering the my first grows were small). How common are they? Pretty sure i might have found a nest once but dispatched of that leaf properly.


----------



## roaf (Sep 23, 2019)

Just found 1 bud worm on my sour diesel X lemon Kush hybrid....My biggest fear!! I sprayed BT just before flower and my other 2 plants are doing just fine. 

Haven’t seen any worms all season. 

I’m hoping I caught it pretty early. I noticed 1 small brown spot on a small side cola. Picked it off and sure enough that little fucker was in there. 

I scoured the rest of the plant and couldn’t find anything. I keep a close watch on my plants so I’ll be sure to check again in the AM.


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## jbcCT (Sep 23, 2019)

roaf said:


> Just found 1 bud worm on my sour diesel X lemon Kush hybrid....My biggest fear!! I sprayed BT just before flower and my other 2 plants are doing just fine.
> 
> Haven’t seen any worms all season.
> 
> ...


You would be able to visually see damage at this point. I have been spraying every two to three days. No way I'm giving up the goods now. Beautiful weather in NE continues, hit 90 today. Thank you weed God's. 

Harvest in it's 3rd day, carry on and thanks for the report man. The more contributors the better.


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## jbcCT (Sep 23, 2019)

See green said:


> Cant keep them all out. I have only foud a few. The spaying of BT and spinosad really works well.View attachment 4398717


Nah we can't beat em all. The goal is to deprive them of the other 95%. Looking good man......


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## Growing24/7 (Sep 23, 2019)

RIP to all the buds lost to bud worms!


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## RBGene (Sep 23, 2019)

Growing24/7 said:


> Don't know what the weed gods have been doing, still have yet to see a bud worm in any grow (only grown 8 plants total in my life, i guess its very minimal considering the my first grows were small). How common are they? Pretty sure i might have found a nest once but dispatched of that leaf properly.


HI, I would say every Outdoor Garden has it's own demon Insects. 
I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area, so we get everything from worms, mites, thrips, powdery mildew, and any other crap Mother Nature Blesses us with.  Preventative Spraying, and other methods will eliminate most. I tried Preying Mantis one season, but the lil guys froze to death from our Bay Area Summers.


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## roaf (Sep 23, 2019)

RBGene said:


> HI, I would say every Outdoor Garden has it's own demon Insects.
> I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area, so we get everything from worms, mites, thrips, powdery mildew, and any other crap Mother Nature Blesses us with.  Preventative Spraying, and other methods will eliminate most. I tried Preying Mantis one season, but the lil guys froze to death from our Bay Area Summers.


I’m in North Bay Area as well.


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## Growing24/7 (Sep 23, 2019)

RBGene said:


> HI, I would say every Outdoor Garden has it's own demon Insects.
> I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area, so we get everything from worms, mites, thrips, powdery mildew, and any other crap Mother Nature Blesses us with.  Preventative Spraying, and other methods will eliminate most. I tried Preying Mantis one season, but the lil guys froze to death from our Bay Area Summers.


I had spidermites last year, thought for sure i'd get it again this year. Only difference is i had no spidermites this year and i used seeds instead of clones like my last outdoor that had it. I thought for sure i'd get them, i did do a neem oil spray twice in its life but it never had a bug problem i needed to take care of this year anyway! I check all over my plant and have flicked off many bugs except the lady bugs and large spiders i find but you can see from my leaves 95% are very good looking while 5% might have some big bug bites, probably grass hoppers. Never enough to make me worry, i hate when you have millions of bugs all over the plant, i'm so thankful my grow is clean this year.

I believe having a healthy strong plant really helps, i never knew it was that simple but bugs like to take over unhealthy plants. Healthy plants are naturally bug resistant, i did research on this, was pretty interesting.


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## RBGene (Sep 23, 2019)

roaf said:


> I’m in North Bay Area as well.


Glad to meet you. Look forward to reading your posts and sharing info.


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## Thegermling (Sep 23, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> No way I'm giving up the goods now.


haha true that. Use mosquito nets next year. make a hoop house or something and seal up that fucker good. I wonder if the moths can still drop the eggs like an airstrike though. Ill find out next year. Only reason I didnt put any nets up is because it gets pretty cold up here in the PNW but these fuckers are resilient. I might even set up trap plants. Look into them too they can be useful.
I too have heard that running organics is probably the best way to keep your plants healthy and its the best form of IPM. I plan on making an outdoor organic garden next year and well see if its true.
I dont know of any beneficial insects that eat budworms sadly. Either way I heard beneficial insects for outdoors are useless unless theyre already in the area you grow in.
Keep your eyes peeled and check your plants out everyday, if you can, from top to bottom. Hope yall make it!!


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## Sir Napsalot (Sep 24, 2019)

I found 3 big patches of moth eggs on my my wife's gladiolas recently

Seems they like my wife's flowers more than mine


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## stray77 (Sep 24, 2019)

These weren't here (Essex County, Ontario) yesterday. Sprayed with baking soda and water with soap to suppress some powdery mildew and noticed these on the top cola of my pineapple express.


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## Fat_Tony (Sep 25, 2019)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


I buy a crappy bag of cigs from the rez and remove the tobacco and let it soak in water for a few days and filter it and spray my plants with it. Works for me


----------



## CanadianJim (Sep 25, 2019)

Thegermling said:


> haha true that. Use mosquito nets next year. make a hoop house or something and seal up that fucker good. I wonder if the moths can still drop the eggs like an airstrike though. Ill find out next year. Only reason I didnt put any nets up is because it gets pretty cold up here in the PNW but these fuckers are resilient. I might even set up trap plants. Look into them too they can be useful.
> I too have heard that running organics is probably the best way to keep your plants healthy and its the best form of IPM. I plan on making an outdoor organic garden next year and well see if its true.
> I dont know of any beneficial insects that eat budworms sadly. Either way I heard beneficial insects for outdoors are useless unless theyre already in the area you grow in.
> Keep your eyes peeled and check your plants out everyday, if you can, from top to bottom. Hope yall make it!!


No airstrikes lol, they need to land on the leaf to stick the egg to it. 
Hornets eat caterpillars, and I think that's one of the reasons why I haven't seen any budworms so far.


Fat_Tony said:


> I buy a crappy bag of cigs from the rez and remove the tobacco and let it soak in water for a few days and filter it and spray my plants with it. Works for me


One of the first insecticides, lol.


----------



## PunkleRuckus (Sep 25, 2019)

Blazingimmortals said:


> Monterey Insecticide with spinosad use that make sure you spray them good once a week until them little buggers are no more this stuff is so good it will kill the larvae
> 
> It will not interfere with taste
> 
> ...



Spinosad kills bees and other beneficial bugs. I know it works, but it's more like a nuclear option. Don't use it unless you absolutely have to. Then, just make sure you done't spray when bees are out and no wind....


----------



## Sweetred (Sep 25, 2019)

Growing24/7 said:


> RIP to all the buds lost to bud worms!


*removes hat*


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## roaf (Sep 26, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> You would be able to visually see damage at this point. I have been spraying every two to three days. No way I'm giving up the goods now. Beautiful weather in NE continues, hit 90 today. Thank you weed God's.
> 
> Harvest in it's 3rd day, carry on and thanks for the report man. The more contributors the better.


No other bud worms found to date. Let’s hope I got lucky!


----------



## Growing24/7 (Sep 26, 2019)

Fat_Tony said:


> I buy a crappy bag of cigs from the rez and remove the tobacco and let it soak in water for a few days and filter it and spray my plants with it. Works for me


Don't know what to think of this, but if you smoke lots of cigarettes this seems like a great fucking idea!


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## Cx2H (Sep 27, 2019)

Found one 1/2" caterpillar chilling on a cola the other day, same as last year. I plucked it off. I check that area daily. Probably gonna have to cut branches off if I find any more. Every year nature takes it cut I guess. I'm hoping it fell off the tree that's above it. Probably wishful thinking, considering I saw the bastard butterflies couple of weeks ago hanging around.  like 10-15 days away from harvest too..

I think I will go back indoors and deal with the limited bug invasion forces vs the entire insect world lol.


----------



## jbcCT (Sep 29, 2019)

RBGene said:


> HI, I would say every Outdoor Garden has it's own demon Insects.
> I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area, so we get everything from worms, mites, thrips, powdery mildew, and any other crap Mother Nature Blesses us with.  Preventative Spraying, and other methods will eliminate most. I tried Preying Mantis one season, but the lil guys froze to death from our Bay Area Summers.


Great post, totally agree. First time in five years I had a bout of powdery mildew. My Bohdi strains seem to be immune but one of my grape pupils was not. Mother nature throws a lot at us.


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## jbcCT (Sep 29, 2019)

We continue to have an Indian summer here in the NE. Hit mid 80's yesterday. I've been trimming and washing bud daily since the 21st. The preventative BT spraying was 100% effective. I've only found two very small worms, both of which were black and near death. As I take the most mature branches I continue to spray. Some of my regs won't finish till late October and I don't want to lose them now.


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## Thegermling (Sep 29, 2019)

So I was told predator bees like trichogramma, ichnuemon and chalcid are great for budworms and eggs. I think some attack the moths as well.


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## RBGene (Sep 30, 2019)

*BASTAGES!!!!!
 *


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## Sir Napsalot (Oct 1, 2019)

I've been using bt consistently and have zero caterpillar action thus far


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## Mysweetybird (Oct 2, 2019)

madcow said:


> put a scarecrow up it'll scare away all the moths!!!


What you been smokin lol!


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## Mysweetybird (Oct 2, 2019)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


I don't have any yet so far this year. This is my 2nd grow year. Last year I had some but they were .


SuperNutz said:


> Finally got them all BT'ed last night and tonight for the first time in weeks. Wind completely stopped at dark last night so was running out moving the fan around a bunch of times lol. Still a couple weeks without seeing a worm, thinking the yellow jackets are doing most of my heavy lifting. Everyday I see them searching my buds like a honey bee on flowers. Starting to like them so much I don't even swap them when they land on me anymore lol. Next year I'm thinking of getting night vision goggles so I can spray anytime during the night lmao, I'm serious too.


This is my 2nd grow. No worms so far this year but last year they were purple and look completely different than yours. In so cal high desert.


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## jbcCT (Oct 2, 2019)

Trimming up some Bodhi bubba kush x snow lotus. Clean as fuck. 98% of my plants are worm free. I found two or three smaller lower branch buds they got into and browned out but contained. I'm soaked them in BT this year. They cant get a foot hold if that first bite if food is toxic.


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## Cx2H (Oct 2, 2019)

I found a few more up on colas chilling across 3 other plants acting untouchable. Next year it's mesh butterfly netting. 

Either the worms are gonna get me or this sheety rainy cold sunless bullsheet weather.


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## Rollingup11 (Oct 3, 2019)

Try to grow next to ah area with spiders.. They will only help your plant against things like this brotha!


kds710 said:


> Noticed a buldge on the stock with a thumbtack size hole. Day later this stuff was oozing out of it, so I performed surgery with a razor blade and caught the bastard a little further ways up from the opening pictured. Found 1 more on a different stock so removed both stocks. Luckily no damage was really done yet, i myself did more by chopping the 2 big top stocks off
> 
> View attachment 4392809 View attachment 4392810 View attachment 4392813


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## EAR1974 (Oct 3, 2019)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


2 weeks after use is safe.use once week or so until I am ready to get close,on indicas this year that came fast,sativa I have says 12-14 weeks.From July when she first started to show signs thats still into november.As each strain I had started to flower at different times for some reason I had to develop a plan of attack..the mold from transpiration not getting out of the thick indica ,the caterpillars with babies and bright green inch long camo worms to the big fat alice wonderland type BT is ur best defense..still I grow on,even in these aphid days where I have done all organic I know to do ,even went the bribe em route with 5 lb bag of sugar I poured out if they just let my beauties finish.
ON the Crazy part,not so much...even dry to the bone inside,as to wait till soil dry if in pot,then cut down...still not thinking water and lemon juice with baking soda is bad idea..3 buckets,1 mild solution couple tablespoons lemon,2 or so baking soda..and two buckets room temp water..gently..i say gentle dip and slight twist at most in each..and ur not smoking worm or catipillar crap anymore..the amount of mold and pollen along with spores of the outside world u wont inhale..and really,thc isnt soluble with water so it runs off like a ducks back.For outside grows I think I am using the method i just explained this go round.1st outdoor and I thought same..wet and weed..but it dont seem to bother the early test limbs i had from a breakage.The cure is where its at they say,start right,with dank gentics is my reply.KISS method,slow and proper cure,enjoy.


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## jbcCT (Oct 4, 2019)

Cx2H said:


> I found a few more up on colas chilling across 3 other plants acting untouchable. Next year it's mesh butterfly netting.
> 
> Either the worms are gonna get me or this sheety rainy cold sunless bullsheet weather.


Just a heads up. I watched several brown moths lay a clutch of eggs on the fabric screen of my yard tent. You need BT.


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## roaf (Oct 4, 2019)

Anyone know the lowest temps that bud worms or their moth moms can survive? I had a bud worm scare a few weeks ago but since the temps have dropped in the AM I haven’t seen any of those fuckers.


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## SuperNutz (Oct 4, 2019)

roaf said:


> Anyone know the lowest temps that bud worms or their moth moms can survive? I had a bud worm scare a few weeks ago but since the temps have dropped in the AM I haven’t seen any of those fuckers.


From my night cameras I've seen a major drop in moth activity so worms should follow.


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## Cx2H (Oct 4, 2019)

roaf said:


> Anyone know the lowest temps that bud worms or their moth moms can survive? I had a bud worm scare a few weeks ago but since the temps have dropped in the AM I haven’t seen any of those fuckers.


I pulled a few off in 45° temps few days ago. Last year got a couple in 33° lows, when I ran extra long into Nov. So IDK when or if they die or just over winter in the area.


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## jbcCT (Oct 4, 2019)

Thegermling said:


> haha true that. Use mosquito nets next year. make a hoop house or something and seal up that fucker good. I wonder if the moths can still drop the eggs like an airstrike though. Ill find out next year. Only reason I didnt put any nets up is because it gets pretty cold up here in the PNW but these fuckers are resilient. I might even set up trap plants. Look into them too they can be useful.
> I too have heard that running organics is probably the best way to keep your plants healthy and its the best form of IPM. I plan on making an outdoor organic garden next year and well see if its true.
> I dont know of any beneficial insects that eat budworms sadly. Either way I heard beneficial insects for outdoors are useless unless theyre already in the area you grow in.
> Keep your eyes peeled and check your plants out everyday, if you can, from top to bottom. Hope yall make it!!


I have a large out tent that has screen mesh zip up sides. I've personally watched several brown moth on different occasions lays clutches of eggs right onto the mesh of my tent, two years in a row. I had good results with preventative BT spraying this year, I think I finally got this thing figured out. I've considered nets in years past but seems like too much of a pain in the ass.


----------



## jbcCT (Oct 4, 2019)

roaf said:


> Just found 1 bud worm on my sour diesel X lemon Kush hybrid....My biggest fear!! I sprayed BT just before flower and my other 2 plants are doing just fine.
> 
> Haven’t seen any worms all season.
> 
> ...


There is an old saying, if you see 1 there are 5 times that amount you can't see. Start soaking them in BY every three days


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## Growing24/7 (Oct 4, 2019)

2 plants harvested, just did my biggest plant which was the northern lights. 5-10% amber with lots of cloudy triches, very dense buds for its strain. Went over the whole plant could not find a single piece of rot or worm

I had a lot to look over too, i'm very happy i had no problems this grow. Dealt with many before and it sucks.


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## jbcCT (Oct 21, 2019)

What's going on people. Got the last fresh hanging. Been dry trimming manicuring as it comes of the rack in waves. Gonna make some bubble hash this weekend top off the season. Been smoking like a champ. I can't be the only one burning that fresh stuff off the rack and dam it is good....

Worms & caterpillars were thoroughly defeated this year. I wonder what outdoor commercial growers do for pests. You know dam well if it doesn't hit the dispensaries due to contamination it hits the black market...


----------



## jbcCT (Oct 21, 2019)

Growing24/7 said:


> 2 plants harvested, just did my biggest plant which was the northern lights. 5-10% amber with lots of cloudy triches, very dense buds for its strain. Went over the whole plant could not find a single piece of rot or worm
> 
> I had a lot to look over too, i'm very happy i had no problems this grow. Dealt with many before and it sucks.
> View attachment 4403710
> ...


Box of latex gloves is must have. Along with my fiskers titanium spring loaded trimmers.

Fucking things are made in China, good for like one season. You can't heat the blades with a lighter to clear resin and particulate or they go brittle and snap. 

I will try to find steel trimmers next year, might be extra but screw it. Had to clean with rubbing alcohol and paper towel this year.

Looking good bro. Congrats.


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## Cx2H (Oct 21, 2019)

jbcCT said:


> What's going on people. Got the last fresh hanging. Been dry trimming manicuring as it comes of the rack in waves. Gonna make some bubble hash this weekend top off the season. Been smoking like a champ. I can't be the only one burning that fresh stuff off the rack and dam it is good....
> 
> Worms & caterpillars were thoroughly defeated this year. I wonder what outdoor commercial growers do for pests. You know dam well if it doesn't hit the dispensaries due to contamination it hits the black market...


Good to hear. 

I got everything chopped, processed. Had 1 caterpillar make it to trimming. 4 total over 3 plants. None ever got into the buds or stem's. They were to dense I guess or the worms were late to the party. The other 3 got plucked off during flower.


----------



## blazeaglory420 (Oct 29, 2019)

potroast said:


> For budworms, you should spray your plants every 3 weeks with BT, a beneficial bacteria, throughout their veg state, and the first half of flowering. That will keep the worms from growing on your plants. And that way, you don't have to spray your ripening buds.
> 
> BT will affect the taste of your bud if used too late in the season. It's just fine to wash your plants before harvest. Even my indoor plants are sometimes taken outside on harvest day and sprayed down well with a fine spray, and then dried for a couple of hours and harvested.
> 
> HTH


Pretty much this. 

I use every couple of weeks up until after mid flower, stopping into late flower. I rinsed the plants with filtered water (RV filter on hose) a few times prior to harvesting but let dry for a day or two before chopping.

Other plants that I've used BT on until later in harvest without rinsing has definitely left a strange metallic taste when burning.


----------



## YardG (Feb 13, 2020)

Ugh, I have a few jars that have dead orange caterpillars affixed to the inside wall. Think they probably tried to escape the dried bud only to find themselves stuck in glass in a fairly cold garage.


----------



## mordynyc (Feb 13, 2020)

YardG said:


> Ugh, I have a few jars that have dead orange caterpillars affixed to the inside wall. Think they probably tried to escape the dried bud only to find themselves stuck in glass in a fairly cold garage.


mmm chinese food


----------



## Freedom seed (Feb 15, 2020)

My crop last summer was visited by wild turkeys every morning. I had really short, bushy plants and the turkeys ate the budworms and other bugs off the plants! At first I was upset they were tearing the leaves, until I realized what they were doing. Fun shit to watch from the porch. Had barn swallows doing a good job the rest of the day.

The Japanese beetles were a bit of a concern. Those things can eat plants fast. I found the fix on a gardening forum. Take a beer pitcher with water in the bottom and knock the beetles off the plants and into the water. They can’t fly away when you do it this way. Crush them and add them to your tea. Microbes that eat beetles will grow in the tea. Foliage and soak the roots, the beetle eating microbes will grow on the plant. It works for the same reason BT does. It blew my mind how good it worked.


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## potroastV2 (Feb 16, 2020)

Freedom seed said:


> My crop last summer was visited by wild turkeys every morning. I had really short, bushy plants and the turkeys ate the budworms and other bugs off the plants! At first I was upset they were tearing the leaves, until I realized what they were doing. Fun shit to watch from the porch. Had barn swallows doing a good job the rest of the day.



That's a great idea!

Next crop I'm gonna put bottles of Wild Turkey around my plant.


----------



## dubekoms (Feb 18, 2020)

Anyone know if mixing bt with greencure, potassium bicarbonate, or other high ph product will kill the beneficial bacteria in the bt?


----------



## wet dream (Feb 19, 2020)

I was wondering if anyone has ever tried spraying Surround WP on cannabis plants before they start flowering to deter moths from laying eggs on the shade leaves? Surround WP is 100% Kaolin clay and is OMRI listed crop protectant. Surround appears to be very effective in protecting my apple, peach and avocado trees from pests. I'm thinking if the moths land on cannabis leaves they will not like the kaolin clay attaching to their bodies and leave to lay their eggs on another plant. Any thoughts about using Surround WP up until the plants start to flower?


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## Menace805 (Apr 11, 2020)

Is BT only for the caterpillars? Does is work for other bugs?


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## FresnoFarmer (Apr 12, 2020)

Menace805 said:


> Is BT only for the caterpillars? Does is work for other bugs?


Bt is for caterpillars. Spinosad works on caterpillars and other bugs like thrips and spider mites.


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## Menace805 (Apr 12, 2020)

FresnoFarmer said:


> Bt is for caterpillars. Spinosad works on caterpillars and other bugs like thrips and spider mites.


Is that something you can use in combination as a preventative?


----------



## FresnoFarmer (Apr 12, 2020)

Menace805 said:


> Is that something you can use in combination as a preventative?


Yes. Good combo to use is BT, trichogramma, and a bug zapper. Spinosad is harmful to beneficial insects too. I only use it when I have to.


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## Titikshu (Apr 12, 2020)

You could always dip a joint in BT, smoke it, and see what happens


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## Titikshu (Apr 12, 2020)

Where are you in the world where your outdoor grow is budding?
Predator bugs an option?


https://www.sciencesource.com/Doc/TR1_WATERMARKED/5/d/a/0/SS2233526.jpg?d6364168647


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## Menace805 (Apr 12, 2020)

Titikshu said:


> Where are you in the world where your outdoor grow is budding?
> Predator bugs an option?
> 
> 
> https://www.sciencesource.com/Doc/TR1_WATERMARKED/5/d/a/0/SS2233526.jpg?d6364168647


In Socal..i looked a lil into praying mantis but not sure about effectiveness and they're requirements


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## Menace805 (Apr 12, 2020)

FresnoFarmer said:


> Yes. Good combo to use is BT, trichogramma, and a bug zapper. Spinosad is harmful to beneficial insects too. I only use it when I have to.


For using as a preventative using both once a week is ok? Bt and spinosad


----------



## FresnoFarmer (Apr 12, 2020)

Menace805 said:


> For using as a preventative using both once a week is ok? Bt and spinosad


Once a week as preventative. If you started seeing worms/damage then bump up to every 3-5 days


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## Srotak (Apr 12, 2020)

One simple solution for bud worm,,,( aka,, European corn borer )
After Losing major yields cple years in a row.
Just plant outdoors after July 3,,, at least here where I’m located.
It’s just outside it’s second Gestation period,,, I now have no problems with them,,,
and there is plenty of sweet corn fields near my grow spot.
Now,,, spider mites is another story,,,( soybean fields are notorious for spider mites infestations )
Luckily they are lazy and like the shady soybean plants Much better.
I live upper Midwest,,, plenty of warm and sunny days for a great crop July thru Nov. 1st. Using clones,,,

Srotak


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## Midiver (Apr 16, 2020)




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## Booyah! (Apr 16, 2020)

Assasin bugs did wonders for me last year. BT sprays ended up causing problems for me after a couple months. Assassin Bugs also completely got rid of a new type of grasshopper that was smaller and much more damaging than the regular ones.


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## ToneOZ (Apr 17, 2020)

Is it like tequila? Eat the worm!


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## Sir Napsalot (Apr 19, 2020)

Oregon's relatively dry winter and early spring seems to have brought out the white moths earlier than normal this year


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## Midiver (Apr 19, 2020)

I dont know if its the same pest but these White Moths showed up in late August a few years back, I had an acre of organic winter squash doing great. When (their eggs hatched) they boared straight into the vines. I threw every biological control I knew of at then, finally I use a chemical soon all the vines died, yet the squash were sparied. I think the moths only last a litte while before they lay their eggs and die. Id cover my crop, but only after speaking to your (agg agent or co opp agent). Those thing are the worst, eggs hard to see.


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## jbcCT (Apr 27, 2020)

How's it going boys? It's that time of year. Just got my beans in the mail. Fire up the bt sprayer.....


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## mikey1041 (May 4, 2020)

I got them last year here in So Cal. Used BT for the last month of flower which got rid of them. (now, I know to use it as a preventative)

I've had no indication of it affecting taste.


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## Rico2016 (May 8, 2020)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


amazing plant progress pics dude


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## Sir Napsalot (Jun 21, 2020)

Lots of moths this year, I started using the bug zapper 2 nights ago and the thing was going off nonstop

My little jug of Monterey BT is now 3 years old so I'm gonna pitch it. It worked last year as far as I can tell
I'd like to be able to buy like 4oz of the stuff


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## tylerdurz (Jun 22, 2020)

Wait have y’all tried nuke em I have always used Monterey BT. But now trying nuke em and it works well all the way till harvest.


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## Romulanman (Jun 27, 2020)

Once you get a good amount of them you can get a bowl and dump them in there. Put some money on which guy you think will end up the victor in the battle royal!! Watch em fight and bite each other. 1vs1 is ok too but they tend to crawl away from each other and if there is a lot, there aint nowhere to go!!! Green blood is drawn...its a battle to the death!!! Good stuff there.


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## PDiddyDank (Jun 30, 2020)

Budworms aint getting to my crop this year...


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## Sam smart (Jul 21, 2020)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


Im sorry for the question. Im very new to this game but what does B.T stand for? I have problems with well Im not sure what but something is eating the leaves like decimating them and Im not sure what to do other then Neem oil.


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## Rico2016 (Jul 21, 2020)

Sam smart said:


> Im sorry for the question. Im very new to this game but what does B.T stand for? I have problems with well Im not sure what but something is eating the leaves like decimating them and Im not sure what to do other then Neem oil.


I think it means Bacillus with the species but dont full quote me on it.


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## Sir Napsalot (Jul 22, 2020)

The white moths seem especially plentiful this year- they seem more attracted to my neighbor's vegies, but I've had my bug zapper going at night and there's a bunch of dead moths under it every morning.


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## Kerowacked (Jul 25, 2020)

Sam smart said:


> Im sorry for the question. Im very new to this game but what does B.T stand for? I have problems with well Im not sure what but something is eating the leaves like decimating them and Im not sure what to do other then Neem oil.


Bacillus thurengiensis, they are bacteria. BTI for skeeters, BTK for caterpillars, its a bacteria from butterfly gut thats fatal to budworms. Brands include Monterey and Thuricide.


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## Aapoo (Jul 26, 2020)

Nice plants bro. Effing hate bugs, unavoidable as they are.....


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## potpimp (Jul 26, 2020)

I just picked 5 off one plant this morning. Fortunately it's ready to chop. I girdled 5 of my girls today. I'm gonna let them sit in the sun for a couple of days like they do in Acapulco and Colombia to get that beautiful golden color. I let them go long to max out the CBN for my insomnia. The one plant is the only one that I've found bud worms on so far.


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## jbcCT (Jul 27, 2020)

Hello. Hope everyone has been well despite the world falling apart. Getting ready to fire up the ole BT sprayer. Sorting males from females getting ready for the final leg. Running Bodhi and an AK Bean Brain black dom. Was 100 degrees today in the NE. Hottest, dryest summer on record. Hardly any rain. I'll take it. 

Going to be applying my first coat of BT in the next few days.

Just a tip. When spraying, check the weather. Especially when spraying on developing or full flower. You want to hit it in the morning when expecting sun and no rain. You want it to be able to dry quickly. You don't want anything that will contribute to mold or mildew. Sometimes you can't wait if your under attack but if you're pre-emptive spraying like I do, try to get the weather right.


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## jbcCT (Jul 27, 2020)

CrazyChester said:


> The first two pics show the type of damage done to the three buds in question. Now that I've sprayed, should I remove the damaged buds?
> 
> Thanks fdd for your comment. I remembered correctly your advise from last year.


Get your spring loaded out son and clip that shit out. It can rot the stem as well if it's in tight near main stalks.


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## jbcCT (Jul 27, 2020)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


Doesn't effect the taste at all. I stop spraying a week or two prior to chop. I've mentioned this in the past but I wash all my outdoor in 5 gallon home depot buckets mixed with a cup of hydrogen peroxide. Dunk them a few times and they I rinse it with my garden hose. Dust, small bugs and the peroxide acts as a disinfectant and will wash away any unseen mildew or mold. 

It's like I'm making wine. I want the highest quality product that is clean. It's doesn't effect potency at all. You ever spray some shoes with waterproofer spray? Or spray that shit on your arm when your a kid and then stick your arm in a bucket of water and your arm comes out dry? 

It's so sticky it doesn't harm the bud at all. Dries so nice afterwards as well.


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## Kerowacked (Jul 28, 2020)

jbcCT said:


> Hello. Hope everyone has been well despite the world falling apart. Getting ready to fire up the ole BT sprayer. Sorting males from females getting ready for the final leg. Running Bodhi and an AK Bean Brain black dom. Was 100 degrees today in the NE. Hottest, dryest summer on record. Hardly any rain. I'll take it.
> 
> Going to be applying my first coat of BT in the next few days.
> 
> Just a tip. When spraying, check the weather. Especially when spraying on developing or full flower. You want to hit it in the morning when expecting sun and no rain. You want it to be able to dry quickly. You don't want anything that will contribute to mold or mildew. Sometimes you can't wait if your under attack but if you're pre-emptive spraying like I do, try to get the weather right.


Thats interesting, i use rain to spread it, applying before and after a storm figuring thats when they hatch and start feeding. What brand btk do u have?


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## jbcCT (Jul 28, 2020)

Kerowacked said:


> Thats interesting, i use rain to spread it, applying before and after a storm figuring thats when they hatch and start feeding. What brand btk do u have?


I use the Monterey. Last year was my best harvest free of worms. After crying over the havoc for two years I thought there is no way to stop them from coming. They are going to try and eat my plants.

When I hit pre-flower and I'm there now, I pre-spray. I'm laying the first coat tomorrow and I'll repeat the process every four to five days and I continue right up until two weeks prior to harvest.

My rational is why wait until they show up? By then they have a toe hold and are doing damage. They are going to be there. You want to kill them when they hatch, when there small. Like I said last year try to make the first bite the last.

I spray into the sun because I want the product to dry especially once I'm hitting fat buds. I don't want my buds to remain moist and wet for long. Mold and mildew are also a formidable outdoor enemy don't want to contribute.

I saw two brown moths land on the ladies earlier today. I smashed one.....


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## Sam smart (Jul 29, 2020)

Kerowacked said:


> Bacillus thurengiensis, they are bacteria. BTI for skeeters, BTK for caterpillars, its a bacteria from butterfly gut thats fatal to budworms. Brands include Monterey and Thuricide.


Thanku for the info!


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## jbcCT (Aug 3, 2020)

PDiddyDank said:


> Budworms aint getting to my crop this year...
> View attachment 4610415


Thats fucking awesome.


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## potpimp (Aug 7, 2020)

I bought some mosquito netting to cover my plants. The bud worms cost me half my cola on one of my plants.


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## Nex420 (Aug 11, 2020)

jbcCT said:


> I use the Monterey. Last year was my best harvest free of worms. After crying over the havoc for two years I thought there is no way to stop them from coming. They are going to try and eat my plants.
> 
> When I hit pre-flower and I'm there now, I pre-spray. I'm laying the first coat tomorrow and I'll repeat the process every four to five days and I continue right up until two weeks prior to harvest.
> 
> ...


I saw 2 today, smashed both.
Keep fighting the good fight brother!


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## PDiddyDank (Aug 12, 2020)

Well, the girls have started to plump up with buds and no sign of any budworms thus far. The added bonus of the mosquito net is not only keeping most bad insects out, but keeping predatory insects in! I've been dealing with thrips and no matter how much spinosad or neem I use, they are still there sucking at my bottom fan leaves. I released about 200 ladybuds and because of the net, they can't just fly off like they normally would. 

The only drawback so far is that I tried to fit waaay too many plants into the given space. I have 4 tomato plants, 2 jalapeno, 2 thai chilli and numerous cannabis plants all in the same space! This means I've had to get creative with LST to ensure my bud sites are getting sun and the space they need. Hey..it keeps me busy!  Next time, bigger net because...I'm not even going to convince myself I'll do less plants..haha


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## PioneerValleyOG (Aug 14, 2020)

Had corn borers last year, found holes at the crotch of branches, you can literally dig them out with a small pin or wire, or kill them with a thicker piece of copper wire. BT then injected into holes with syringe, what a nightmare. My friend almost lost while crop. That's why you need to be vigilant about inspecting your plants. I check everything close every day. 
YELLOW STICKY BOARDS, can't say enough good about them, kills aphids moths, paterkiller egg layin' sumbitches. Worth the few bucks.


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## PioneerValleyOG (Aug 14, 2020)

Also you should note BT is specifically for caterpillars and worms - not great at much else but super effective on the mini-snakes!


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## JcNooby (Aug 21, 2020)

Found this sucker he was hinding inside the stems probably making tunnels


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## Corporal_Biscuit (Aug 21, 2020)

PDiddyDank said:


> Well, the girls have started to plump up with buds and no sign of any budworms thus far. The added bonus of the mosquito net is not only keeping most bad insects out, but keeping predatory insects in! I've been dealing with thrips and no matter how much spinosad or neem I use, they are still there sucking at my bottom fan leaves. I released about 200 ladybuds and because of the net, they can't just fly off like they normally would.
> 
> The only drawback so far is that I tried to fit waaay too many plants into the given space. I have 4 tomato plants, 2 jalapeno, 2 thai chilli and numerous cannabis plants all in the same space! This means I've had to get creative with LST to ensure my bud sites are getting sun and the space they need. Hey..it keeps me busy!  Next time, bigger net because...I'm not even going to convince myself I'll do less plants..haha
> 
> View attachment 4651333


A drench application of Azamax should sort out your thrip problem, considering they are born in soil.


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## Humanrob (Aug 25, 2020)

PDiddyDank said:


> Well, the girls have started to plump up with buds and no sign of any budworms thus far. The added bonus of the mosquito net is not only keeping most bad insects out, but keeping predatory insects in! I've been dealing with thrips and no matter how much spinosad or neem I use, they are still there sucking at my bottom fan leaves. I released about 200 ladybuds and because of the net, they can't just fly off like they normally would.
> 
> The only drawback so far is that I tried to fit waaay too many plants into the given space. I have 4 tomato plants, 2 jalapeno, 2 thai chilli and numerous cannabis plants all in the same space! This means I've had to get creative with LST to ensure my bud sites are getting sun and the space they need. Hey..it keeps me busy!  Next time, bigger net because...I'm not even going to convince myself I'll do less plants..haha
> 
> View attachment 4651333


I'm using a similar solution with bug netting -- second year doing it -- I'm also getting great results.

But I have a question: Does anyone know how long between when the eggs are laid and when the worms hatch?

Reason I'm asking: Bug netting reduces the light by between 20-30% depending on the quality of the netting. When we get a brief rain, it also traps moisture and then drips on the plants for hours after the rain stops. So, while it saves them from worms it does come at a cost in terms of light reduction and possibly encouraging mold/PM.

Since my plants only have a couple of weeks left and the days are starting to get shorter at my latitude, I'm wondering if I can pull the netting at this point to give them more/stronger light while they finish flowering? If the moths lay eggs and there's only two weeks left in the grow, the eggs would be on the outside of the bud not the inside, and I'm not sure they would do much damage... if they would hatch at all?

Any thoughts?


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## Nimpire (Aug 27, 2020)

Noticed some yellowing leaves on my main cola, investigated further and found this little troublemaker. Checked buds around it, one had some browning in it, so chopped it and she is hanging now! GG Autoflower and almost 60 days in so hopefully everything will be ok.


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## PDiddyDank (Aug 27, 2020)

Nimpire said:


> Noticed some yellowing leaves on my main cola, investigated further and found this little troublemaker. Checked buds around it, one had some browning in it, so chopped it and she is hanging now! GG Autoflower and almost 60 days in so hopefully everything will be ok. View attachment 4666945View attachment 4666937


I can assure you you have more worms and even if you got them all, the Frass they deposited will probably cause additional losses. GL!


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## PDiddyDank (Aug 27, 2020)

Humanrob said:


> I'm using a similar solution with bug netting -- second year doing it -- I'm also getting great results.
> 
> But I have a question: Does anyone know how long between when the eggs are laid and when the worms hatch?
> 
> ...


I wouldn’t remove that net. Not worth the loss of your biggest colas compared to the marginal gain in yield.


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## Nimpire (Aug 27, 2020)

Thanks PDiddyDank, still think it’s ok to keep in the garage? Indoor tent is on the other side of the house! But in between grows now


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## PDiddyDank (Aug 27, 2020)

Nimpire said:


> Thanks PDiddyDank, still think it’s ok to keep in the garage? Indoor tent is on the other side of the house! But in between grows now


I’m a lil confused. Would you have them in the garage with a grow light? The main thing is trying to keep the moths off your buds. They mainly come out at night, but I’ve seen them during the day too. If you have a way to keep moths off your plants and supply enough light, as well as meeting all the other necessary conditions for the plant to continue to flower, I don’t see why not. As for me, I’ll be keeping my net on right up until harvest. Fool me once.. GL!


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## Nimpire (Aug 27, 2020)

I chopped the plant and hung it in my garage, just wondering if there are more in the plant if they will infest the house?! Lol it’s an autoflower and was almost done. Will the worms die off during the drying process?


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## PDiddyDank (Aug 27, 2020)

Nimpire said:


> I chopped the plant and hung it in my garage, just wondering if there are more in the plant if they will infest the house?! Lol it’s an autoflower and was almost done. Will the worms die off during the drying process?


Oh I see. Yeah, the worms will throw out silk line and drop out of the bud as it dries. They would need to find a way to cacoon and then turn into moths before continuing the life cycle. I think you’ll be fine. Just watch the temp and humidity for a proper dry/cure


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## jbcCT (Aug 28, 2020)

Freedom seed said:


> My crop last summer was visited by wild turkeys every morning. I had really short, bushy plants and the turkeys ate the budworms and other bugs off the plants! At first I was upset they were tearing the leaves, until I realized what they were doing. Fun shit to watch from the porch. Had barn swallows doing a good job the rest of the day.
> 
> The Japanese beetles were a bit of a concern. Those things can eat plants fast. I found the fix on a gardening forum. Take a beer pitcher with water in the bottom and knock the beetles off the plants and into the water. They can’t fly away when you do it this way. Crush them and add them to your tea. Microbes that eat beetles will grow in the tea. Foliage and soak the roots, the beetle eating microbes will grow on the plant. It works for the same reason BT does. It blew my mind how good it worked.


I've had jap beetles creeping into my yard last summer. They can devour a vegging plant in days. They tend to hide in the grass late in the day. I nuke them with general pesticides. I have one of those hose attachments to disperse the poison and dilute it. Works well.


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## See green (Aug 30, 2020)

Haven't found any worms yet but im starting to see a few eggs. Around here this is what they look like. See if you can spot it. There almost always on the top buds or near the top of the plant. Now is the time to get your protective measures in order if you haven't already...the war is on!!


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## doug58 (Aug 31, 2020)

Nimpire said:


> I chopped the plant and hung it in my garage, just wondering if there are more in the plant if they will infest the house?! Lol it’s an autoflower and was almost done. Will the worms die off during the drying process?


Do you wash your buds before hanging? I had a bud worm on one of my large autoflowers outside. Plucked it off and then spotted some bud rot. Cut those buds off and kept an eye on the plant. Rainy and humid with no sun for a week, cut the best buds off and washed them in lemon juice and baking soda, rinsed and hung to dry.

I usually do an H2O2 wash on my outdoor grows but has been impossible to find any at the two stores I usually buy at. I can't bring myself to smoke or use outdoor grown weed without washing it first.


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## Nimpire (Aug 31, 2020)

I didn’t wash the plant, just cut bad spots and hung, looked today and saw a tiny bastard hanging from the drying plant. Still not sure how this is gonna work out hahaha. Gonna put down some yellow sticky traps on the floor under it!


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## Sir Napsalot (Sep 4, 2020)

Humanrob said:


> I'm using a similar solution with bug netting -- second year doing it -- I'm also getting great results.
> 
> But I have a question: Does anyone know how long between when the eggs are laid and when the worms hatch?
> 
> ...


I put the leaf on the left in a plastic bag and the eggs hatched in 5-6 days, producing hundreds of tiny caterpillars


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## Humanrob (Sep 4, 2020)

Sir Napsalot said:


> I put the leaf on the left in a plastic bag and the eggs hatched in 5-6 days, producing hundreds of tiny caterpillars
> 
> View attachment 4673833


WOW! Good information, thank you!


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## Sir Napsalot (Sep 4, 2020)

Humanrob said:


> WOW! Good information, thank you!


Glad to help. 

the eggs were laid on a lower leaf, but judging by how active the little bastards were in the bag I'd imagine that they could have reached any area of the plant within a day


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## PDiddyDank (Sep 4, 2020)

Sir Napsalot said:


> I put the leaf on the left in a plastic bag and the eggs hatched in 5-6 days, producing hundreds of tiny caterpillars
> 
> View attachment 4673833


Wow, that pic is crazy. The moth we have around here lays a different kind of egg. Usually it’s singular and round, most often deposited on the bud or on a sugar leaf.


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## alphapinene (Sep 4, 2020)

does anybody know if wasps/yellow jackets/spiders are natural predators to budworms? idk if it's a coincidence but for the past two days I haven't found one single budworm (I look very carefully for 20 minutes) about 3-4x a day..usually find 2-4 a day. I was hit with a minor infestation this past week (pistils being eaten/brown red shit specks left over on buds but still no bud rot. There's alot of wasp/yellow jacket nests near by and I've been recently seeing them hover over/land on the buds. There's also a lot of spiders that have been taking up residence on my plant. It's very windy where I live as well (5-10mph avg daily) would constant wind 'dry' out the worm poop?


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## jbcCT (Sep 5, 2020)

Nimpire said:


> I didn’t wash the plant, just cut bad spots and hung, looked today and saw a tiny bastard hanging from the drying plant. Still not sure how this is gonna work out hahaha. Gonna put down some yellow sticky traps on the floor under it!


You caught a dreaded paratrooper. Sliding down a string.....
Now you can't tell where he came from ya gots to throw it out.
It takes me a while but my wet cut I'm going through with a fine tooth comb. Using my clips to look in as deep as possible, checking where stem and flower meet. That's also why I wash my bud before I hang. Couple 5 gallon home depot buckets, water and a cup of peroxide in each. It strips off any mold or mildew not visible to the eye, removes dust, small flies, etc. Rinse with a regular hose sprayer, gently......


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## jbcCT (Sep 5, 2020)

Sir Napsalot said:


> I put the leaf on the left in a plastic bag and the eggs hatched in 5-6 days, producing hundreds of tiny caterpillars
> 
> View attachment 4673833


Great photo and dam nice experiment with the bag.

I wish they were easy to find every time. This is my 3rd season outdoors working with BT. It's the kind of thing where you have to work with the product, see it in action to learn how to best use it. The most important things I've picked up:

-you have to begin applications as soon as the plants are sexed if your running regs
-spraying with frequency. I go every 3-5 days from sexing all the way to a week before harvest. You have to stay on it.
-applying the product. I always take my time, full application including branches and stems right down to where you hit the dirt.
-spray in the mornings before the sun hits them or early enough where the sun is less strong. You want it to dry quickly. Especially full flowers, the less wet outdoor bud gets the better.

When your early and consistent with BT, they can never get a toehold into your plant. In my second season with BT I had a 90% reduction in worms and I lost the 10% because I wasn't thorough with my spraying. It will stop an infestation in progress but by then your really too late. Early and often, live by it ...


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## jbcCT (Sep 5, 2020)

Nimpire said:


> I didn’t wash the plant, just cut bad spots and hung, looked today and saw a tiny bastard hanging from the drying plant. Still not sure how this is gonna work out hahaha. Gonna put down some yellow sticky traps on the floor under it!


You really need to go through on the first wet cut before you hang and make sure all contaminated areas are removed. I go deep boys. Use my sheers to check for the black grit, that's poop. Stem to node. You have to open the bud a little with the sheer tip.

Once you hang and they start to dry, it gets much harder to tell where they came from. If you have paratroopers shooting off your rack I don't know what you would do with that. It shouldn't make your place a mess unless the bud is infested.


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## jbcCT (Sep 5, 2020)

Bravo to the guys using nets out here this year. Would love to hear back about and success or failure with nets. I wanted to mention that last summer I watched a few moths leg clutches of eggs on my mesh screen tent, where I put my plants when it rains. I destroyed them but I could imagine if those things hatched they could have gone through the mesh. Just a thought.


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## jbcCT (Sep 5, 2020)

See green said:


> Haven't found any worms yet but im starting to see a few eggs. Around here this is what they look like. See if you can spot it. There almost always on the top buds or near the top of the plant. Now is the time to get your protective measures in order if you haven't already...the war is on!! View attachment 4669861


The war is on indeed.....


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## PDiddyDank (Sep 5, 2020)

jbcCT said:


> Bravo to the guys using nets out here this year. Would love to hear back about and success or failure with nets. I wanted to mention that last summer I watched a few moths leg clutches of eggs on my mesh screen tent, where I put my plants when it rains. I destroyed them but I could imagine if those things hatched they could have gone through the mesh. Just a thought.


Ive seen the bud moths around my net and on some plants outside the net, but I have not seen any eggs on my net or on the tips of leafs touching the net. I know to stay vigilant though. I wonder how far those worms can travel, since the bud moths here tend to lay the eggs close to the bud.


----------



## Silky T (Sep 5, 2020)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


Dang, those worms blend right in, don't they? Good thing you did a closeup. I think I will too.


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## jbcCT (Sep 6, 2020)

Add this to this list. Different species, white eggs. I'm out spraying BT, cleaning up some lower dead leaf and found this just now.....


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## jbcCT (Sep 6, 2020)

PDiddyDank said:


> Ive seen the bud moths around my net and on some plants outside the net, but I have not seen any eggs on my net or on the tips of leafs touching the net. I know to stay vigilant though. I wonder how far those worms can travel, since the bud moths here tend to lay the eggs close to the bud.


They can't travel far. They hatch on their food. If left alone they would strip mine the entire plant of foliage until they become full size caterpillar. That's the rational behind pre spraying and consistent spraying. For the ones that we miss, make the first bite of food the last, while they are small, before they can do damage. 

I would suspect netting combined with a spraying regime once a week from pre flower to a week before harvest could be very successful. It maybe the ultimate one two punch. I know not everyone can run nets and if that's the case a thorough spraying program is sufficient.


----------



## jbcCT (Sep 6, 2020)

alphapinene said:


> does anybody know if wasps/yellow jackets/spiders are natural predators to budworms? idk if it's a coincidence but for the past two days I haven't found one single budworm (I look very carefully for 20 minutes) about 3-4x a day..usually find 2-4 a day. I was hit with a minor infestation this past week (pistils being eaten/brown red shit specks left over on buds but still no bud rot. There's alot of wasp/yellow jacket nests near by and I've been recently seeing them hover over/land on the buds. There's also a lot of spiders that have been taking up residence on my plant. It's very windy where I live as well (5-10mph avg daily) would constant wind 'dry' out the worm poop?


I was thinking about that today. Bees around my flowers. There are likely many feeding frenzies protecting outdoor. It creates an small ecosystem. Not sure on the bees but they are active.


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## alphapinene (Sep 6, 2020)

jbcCT said:


> I was thinking about that today. Bees around my flowers. There are likely many feeding frenzies protecting outdoor. It creates an small ecosystem. Not sure on the bees but they are active.


Hell yeah, I really hope so. 



I’ve been finding these guys on my plant ever since I moved it in between two hives lol. Day 4 no visible worms ..fingers crossed

EDIT** so it turns out these wasps are paper wasps which are indeed natural predators to the budworm/any caterpillar


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## jbcCT (Sep 6, 2020)

Nex420 said:


> I saw 2 today, smashed both.
> Keep fighting the good fight brother!


It's just the most disgusting pest. You bust our your BT sprayer this year?


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## jbcCT (Sep 6, 2020)

doug58 said:


> Do you wash your buds before hanging? I had a bud worm on one of my large autoflowers outside. Plucked it off and then spotted some bud rot. Cut those buds off and kept an eye on the plant. Rainy and humid with no sun for a week, cut the best buds off and washed them in lemon juice and baking soda, rinsed and hung to dry.
> 
> I usually do an H2O2 wash on my outdoor grows but has been impossible to find any at the two stores I usually buy at. I can't bring myself to smoke or use outdoor grown weed without washing it first.


Sounds like you got it figured out. Thanks for the tip on the lemon juice. It's obviously very acidic how much do you dilute that? I've been washing mine in 5 gallon home depot buckets with a cup of peroxide. 

I hear you on that cut. Wet flower for days is not good and when your close to the end if the weather isn't dry and sunny it can become an issue fast. I had to cut some non Bodhi strains early last year due to the same situation you had, crap weather.

Personally I like my outdoor very clean. It has to be washed in my opinion. Treat this shit like your making wine boys.


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## doug58 (Sep 6, 2020)

jbcCT said:


> Sounds like you got it figured out. Thanks for the tip on the lemon juice. It's obviously very acidic how much do you dilute that? I've been washing mine in 5 gallon home depot buckets with a cup of peroxide.
> 
> I hear you on that cut. Wet flower for days is not good and when your close to the end if the weather isn't dry and sunny it can become an issue fast. I had to cut some non Bodhi strains early last year due to the same situation you had, crap weather.
> 
> Personally I like my outdoor very clean. It has to be washed in my opinion. Treat this shit like your making wine boys.


with H2O2 I use two quarts to about 4 gallons. I use Home Depot buckets or cheap plastic dish pans to trim and wash in. I use about two cups of Real Lemon type lemon juice or generic store brands. Neutralize with a baking soda rinse then fresh water.

I'd prefer to use H2O2 but every store was out of it. I rarely use a tent with lights anymore. Usually just to start my plants in toward the end of May. I don't have bud rot issues until late August. Autos usually finish before then but I got a late start with the total lockdown in my state.


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## jbcCT (Sep 6, 2020)

doug58 said:


> with H2O2 I use two quarts to about 4 gallons. I use Home Depot buckets or cheap plastic dish pans to trim and wash in. I use about two cups of Real Lemon type lemon juice or generic store brands. Neutralize with a baking soda rinse then fresh water.
> 
> I'd prefer to use H2O2 but every store was out of it. I rarely use a tent with lights anymore. Usually just to start my plants in toward the end of May. I don't have bud rot issues until late August. Autos usually finish before then but I got a late start with the total lockdown in my state.


Wow very interesting using the baking soda to neutralize the acidity. I got a late jump myself and I have a short window in the NE. I recall a year or two taking the last of it down first few days of November so I guess it can't be that bad. Weather has been awesome after we got hit with that cyclone. Dryest summer I can recall with low humidity. Hoping it holds.....

A good wash takes off any unseen mold or mildew as well. I'm surprised more heads aren't washing outdoor before hanging. I think a lot of believe it will ruin or hurt the flower, which it doesn't.


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## Nex420 (Sep 6, 2020)

jbcCT said:


> It's just the most disgusting pest. You bust our your BT sprayer this year?


Don’t ever miss a BT spraying after a bad battle one year. 
Most do a weekly spraying, but I try to do at least once every 3 days cause of my burning hate for these bastards!


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## NewEnglandFarmer (Sep 7, 2020)

For all you battling these sons-a-bitches, thought you might take some satisfaction in this picture. This poor bastard ate a little too much Bt on one of my plants this week. May they all meet the same grim fate:


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## jbcCT (Sep 7, 2020)

Looking super clean so far....


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## jbcCT (Sep 7, 2020)

NewEnglandFarmer said:


> For all you battling these sons-a-bitches, thought you might take some satisfaction in this picture. This poor bastard ate a little too much Bt on one of my plants this week. May they all meet the same grim fate:
> 
> View attachment 4676511


Sucker got big. Keep fighting the good fight.


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## See green (Sep 9, 2020)




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## jbcCT (Sep 9, 2020)

I wanted to share a photo I just took. Day off today. Went out and did a careful inspection. I was picking single moth eggs off my maturing flower. I used a big stitching needle to remove them. They stick so they are easy to remove. Point is, there are several photos in this thread showing clutches of eggs. Easy to see right? The inspection must go deeper boys. I believe the common white moth lays the single egg. Usually right at the top colas. They go for the heart people. This is why it's so important to spray BT thoroughly and frequently.


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## netjunky (Sep 9, 2020)

are these bud worms? they are about 1/4 inch max and at the bud... but only found 2 and 1 yesterday, killed yesterdays put the other two in a container to see


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## See green (Sep 9, 2020)

jbcCT said:


> I wanted to share a photo I just took. Day off today. Went out and did a careful inspection. I was picking single moth eggs off my maturing flower. I used a big stitching needle to remove them. They stick so they are easy to remove. Point is, there are several photos in this thread showing clutches of eggs. Easy to see right? The inspection must go deeper boys. I believe the common white moth lays the single egg. Usually right at the top colas. They go for the heart people. This is why it's so important to spray BT thoroughly and frequently. View attachment 4678656


I agree the ones doing us the most damage are the single eggs.


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## jbcCT (Sep 9, 2020)

netjunky said:


> are these bud worms? they are about 1/4 inch max and at the bud... but only found 2 and 1 yesterday, killed yesterdays put the other two in a container to see


To be honest I've never quite seen one that looks like that but there are many variations of moth & caterpillar. Do you have any damage as a result?


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## PDiddyDank (Sep 11, 2020)

Well, I had to lop off a top of a cola, despite having a net in place. I crammed too many plants into the netting space and some leafs were rubbing against the net. The moths came and laid their egg through the net and onto the tip of the leaf. Minimal damage so far, but won’t know until I harvest. I trimmed all the leafs in contact with the net, so hopefully that does the trick!


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## See green (Sep 13, 2020)

Well there is a new tool in our battle against these little pricks. A black light ,you can see the worms at night they glow green! They sell these light on amazon for about $10.


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## ronintank (Sep 15, 2020)

Oh man I got a get out my old black light. Maybe hang some old rock and roll posters on the fence.


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## jbcCT (Sep 15, 2020)

See green said:


> Well there is a new tool in our battle against these little pricks. A black light ,you can see the worms at night they glow green! They sell these light on amazon for about $10.View attachment 4682361


That's fucking bad ass!!!


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## jbcCT (Sep 15, 2020)

PDiddyDank said:


> Well, I had to lop off a top of a cola, despite having a net in place. I crammed too many plants into the netting space and some leafs were rubbing against the net. The moths came and laid their egg through the net and onto the tip of the leaf. Minimal damage so far, but won’t know until I harvest. I trimmed all the leafs in contact with the net, so hopefully that does the trick!


Not the end of the world. At least you caught it. You still applying BT every few days?


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## jbcCT (Sep 15, 2020)

I went out this morning and picked another dozen single eggs off the tops of my colas. Literally dropping them at the tippy top. One observation is that they usually stay away from the middle of the plant. Using a wooden tooth pick, they seem stick well to wood. This is the last hoorah for this year's moths. Starting to get chilly. They will be gone soon. 

Still have zero damage. No rot anywhere. I'll continue the sweeps until I see no new eggs. For what it's worth, if you have a medium or small outdoor grow I believe its a worthy endeavor to remove as many of these dam things as possible.


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## PDiddyDank (Sep 15, 2020)

3rd muncher I’ve found. Hopefully the last. Lesson: Don’t let any leaf material touch the netting!


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## jbcCT (Sep 17, 2020)

Continuing the know your enemy photo series. I snipped this leaf tip this morning and laid it out on concrete. When I can back to check it later in the afternoon the eggs were hatching. I think they sense dying plant matter and hit the eject button. I could not see the baby larvae without zoom all the way up on the my phone. I sprayed it with BT after the photo. I want to see the effect the spores have on eggs, if any. Will report back.


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## jbcCT (Sep 18, 2020)

This is the results of BT sprayed on that clutch of eggs a day later. They all look hatched. So I would say the spores have no effect on the eggs. The membrane the egg is in must not be permeable. All in all fellas this is why you wash your outdoor before you hang it. Just like you would wash tomatoes or anything else in your garden prior to consuming it.


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## potroastV2 (Sep 18, 2020)

Nice pictures! However, I need to correct some things. First off, there are no spores, BT is a bacteria. We spray the BT on the leaves, and the worms must eat those leaves and ingest the BT for it to have a deadly effect. If those hatching worms don't eat that leaf with the BT on it, then they will just crawl away.

Also, I'm not certain that those are "bud worms." I know they are moth eggs, but maybe not the kind of moths that make bud worms. They are certainly destructive worms. The bud worms that I have seen with magnification are black when newly hatched, and the eggs are not in groups on a leaf, but individually planted on the stem where a bud will form.

There are many kinds of worms, and BT may not help with all of them.


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## PDiddyDank (Sep 18, 2020)

Another few victims to bud worms. Man, these moths are just hovering around my net at night looking for some way to lay eggs on the slightest pun prick of leaf touching the netting.


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## jbcCT (Sep 18, 2020)

rollitup said:


> Nice pictures! However, I need to correct some things. First off, there are no spores, BT is a bacteria. We spray the BT on the leaves, and the worms must eat those leaves and ingest the BT for it to have a deadly effect. If those hatching worms don't eat that leaf with the BT on it, then they will just crawl away.
> 
> Also, I'm not certain that those are "bud worms." I know they are moth eggs, but maybe not the kind of moths that make bud worms. They are certainly destructive worms. The bud worms that I have seen with magnification are black when newly hatched, and the eggs are not in groups on a leaf, but individually planted on the stem where a bud will form.
> 
> There are many kinds of worms, and BT may not help with all of them.


Great information. Thank you. We're dealing with multiple species of moth for sure. I've noticed the eggs are different colors and quantities.

Working with BT the last few years it certainly handles both worms and caterpillar species. It's kept my plants remarkably clean. 

On the Monterey container it actually says it contains 6 million viable spores per mg with the active ingredient bacillus thuringiensis - subspecies kurstaki strain....

That first delicious bite.....


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## jbcCT (Sep 19, 2020)

PDiddyDank said:


> Another few victims to bud worms. Man, these moths are just hovering around my net at night looking for some way to lay eggs on the slightest pun prick of leaf touching the netting.


Can't really tell from the photo. I assume it's shitty and brown. These things are vicious. I would check your netting, top, sides, every couple days. The mesh net is actually a perfect place to lay a clutch. I watched a brown moth dump a wad on the side of my screen tent once and I've found them on the mesh plenty of time. Those suckers are so small they will slip right through.

No worries man. Next time around start spraying those plants at first sign of flower and you'll be good to go. I know it sucks.


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## jbcCT (Sep 20, 2020)

The weather in the northeast has been phenomenal. Little chilly at night. Back to the 80's. Just need to ripen a little more.....


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## HardBudz (Sep 20, 2020)

FrFr...


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## Haze the maze (Sep 20, 2020)

So..
I'm outside battling the flying aphid all morning with castile spray and I come across this tread.
Well I guess it's out for a look.
Please, Please don't be worms!


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## Haze the maze (Sep 20, 2020)

The week before this I was spraying horsetail to stop any PM that could come up.
Ugg! gotta get high.


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## propchef (Sep 21, 2020)

Oh hi


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## PDiddyDank (Sep 21, 2020)

propchef said:


> Oh hi
> 
> View attachment 4690472


Oh snap, that’s WormZilla!


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## keepitog (Sep 21, 2020)

Caught these little sh*%s this morning right in time! Doing daily morning check and took this right off. Crazy. It was just a cluster when I cut it, got busy with the kids and a bit later, boom! All hatching. They would’ve found the BT soon, I spray religiously, but wow incredible. Usually I deal with the bud worms that leave singular yellow ones sporadically. Pheww


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## jbcCT (Sep 23, 2020)

Haze the maze said:


> So..
> I'm outside battling the flying aphid all morning with castile spray and I come across this tread.
> Well I guess it's out for a look.
> Please, Please don't be worms!


Welcome to battle zone.


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## jbcCT (Sep 23, 2020)

keepitog said:


> Caught these little sh*%s this morning right in time! Doing daily morning check and took this right off. Crazy. It was just a cluster when I cut it, got busy with the kids and a bit later, boom! All hatching. They would’ve found the BT soon, I spray religiously, but wow incredible. Usually I deal with the bud worms that leave singular yellow ones sporadically. Pheww


Good catch bro. I found two egg clutches on leaf tips this year and hundreds would have hatched. They wouldn't have gotten very far due to my spraying regiment but still...

I also removed close to 60 single eggs from the tops of my colas. Pick em right off with a toothpick. This is the first year I incorporated a close, daily visual inspection, removing eggs. The single eggs will usually be stuck to the bottom of the leaves at the top of the cola. I can see them no problem. If someone has vision issues or glasses they might need some help. I'm definitely doing sweeps going forward, keep my worm killin game tight.

Anyone else out here find any single eggs on your tops yet?


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## keepitog (Sep 24, 2020)

jbcCT said:


> Good catch bro. I found two egg clutches on leaf tips this year and hundreds would have hatched. They wouldn't have gotten very far due to my spraying regiment but still...
> 
> I also removed close to 60 single eggs from the tops of my colas. Pick em right off with a toothpick. This is the first year I incorporated a close, daily visual inspection, removing eggs. The single eggs will usually be stuck to the bottom of the leaves at the top of the cola. I can see them no problem. If someone has vision issues or glasses they might need some help. I'm definitely doing sweeps going forward, keep my worm killin game tight.
> 
> Anyone else out here find any single eggs on your tops yet?


I do exactly the same thing, but those are the eggs I’m familiar with looking for, not those grey clusters type. But yes. Very visual and I find them on colas, stems and bottom sides of leafs. They’re Really sticky too! Keep diligent with the BT spraying and usually all is good. But I’d still rather get them before they hatch and eat their way to the BT. You can see in pics posted.


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## Warfox (Sep 24, 2020)

How frequently do you guys spray BT? I’ve been spraying Triple concentration weekly and so far so good, only seeing a few spots here and there. 

This close to the finish line I’m thinking of going to bi-weekly.


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## NewEnglandFarmer (Sep 25, 2020)

Warfox said:


> How frequently do you guys spray BT? I’ve been spraying Triple concentration weekly and so far so good, only seeing a few spots here and there.
> 
> This close to the finish line I’m thinking of going to bi-weekly.


Weekly for me....so far so good. Considering dropping it for the final 2 weeks.


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## See green (Sep 25, 2020)

Yes I stopped about 10 days ago. From here on out its just keeping a close eye for any stragglers.


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## jbcCT (Sep 25, 2020)

Warfox said:


> How frequently do you guys spray BT? I’ve been spraying Triple concentration weekly and so far so good, only seeing a few spots here and there.
> 
> This close to the finish line I’m thinking of going to bi-weekly.


I start spraying as soon as the plants are sexed, late June, twice a week.

As the flowers start to form I move to every three to four days right up until a week before harvest. 

I'm starting to harvest this weekend and there is not a single worm on any of my plants.


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## Warfox (Sep 25, 2020)

jbcCT said:


> I start spraying as soon as the plants are sexed, late June, twice a week.
> 
> As the flowers start to form I move to every three to four days right up until a week before harvest.
> 
> I'm starting to harvest this weekend and there is not a single worm on any of my plants.


Yours is the strategy that I’m adopting for next season. This was my first true foray into outdoor, and it was only because one of my girls started flowering 2nd week of July that my entire crop isn’t ruined. 

I noticed caterpillars and their frass on that early girl and then budrot, which then motivated me to to research and discover (*thanks to RIU*) BT.

I lost half my first girl to Rot, but almost NOTHING on the rest of my girls. Hallelujah!


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## jbcCT (Sep 25, 2020)

Warfox said:


> Yours is the strategy that I’m adopting for next season. This was my first true foray into outdoor, and it was only because one of my girls started flowering 2nd week of July that my entire crop isn’t ruined.
> 
> I noticed caterpillars and their frass on that early girl and then budrot, which then motivated me to to research and discover (*thanks to RIU*) BT.
> 
> I lost half my first girl to Rot, but almost NOTHING on the rest of my girls. Hallelujah!


Yeah the early and often spraying regime is 100%. As long as your consistent and take your time spraying. Be thorough. Top to bottom done in early sun, so the product can dry. 

This year, thanks to the forum, I was inspired to do the visual sweeps and remove the eggs. 

Hopefully everyone in the thread will be growing worm free flower next outdoor run...


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## Sir Napsalot (Sep 25, 2020)

I haven't seen a single egg or caterpillar so far this year

I sprayed BT about a week ago just to be safe- I'll probably reapply it in a couple of days when the threat of rain is gone


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## Warfox (Sep 25, 2020)

jbcCT said:


> Yeah the early and often spraying regime is 100%. As long as your consistent and take your time spraying. Be thorough. Top to bottom done in early sun, so the product can dry.
> 
> This year, thanks to the forum, I was inspired to do the visual sweeps and remove the eggs.
> 
> Hopefully everyone in the thread will be growing worm free flower next outdoor run...


Does the black light reveal eggs as well?


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## jbcCT (Sep 26, 2020)

Warfox said:


> Does the black light reveal eggs as well?


I don't know. Haven't tried it. Another guy out here illuminated the actual caterpillar.

Haven't seen any eggs in days. I'm gonna start cutting tomorrow. Weather is going to be cooler in the week ahead it's time. Got the Bodhi strawberry milk and some kush 4 this year.


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## Warfox (Sep 27, 2020)

jbcCT said:


> I don't know. Haven't tried it. Another guy out here illuminated the actual caterpillar.
> 
> Haven't seen any eggs in days. I'm gonna start cutting tomorrow. Weather is going to be cooler in the week ahead it's time. Got the Bodhi strawberry milk and some kush 4 this year.


I wish I was cutting this week: im going to try to push it out as far as possible 2 weeks if I can.


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## jbcCT (Sep 28, 2020)

Warfox said:


> I wish I was cutting this week: im going to try to push it out as far as possible 2 weeks if I can.


I started chopping yesterday. I went out this morning and picked 5 or 6 eggs off a cola. Friggin moths are still dropping eggs. A relentless enemy which is why you have keep spraying.

Took a whole plant down and I had no damage. No frass or rot. For those new to checking damage, you really have to get into close to the node, use your clippers to take a peek. You might not have rot but if you see black grit they got in there and took a shit.

Had to go to six different stores to find hydrogen peroxide. That and rubbing alcohol are almost impossible to find. Supply chain breaking down from this fake pandemic. Luckily I found some at a home depot. Washing bud just ain't the same without peroxide.....


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## jbcCT (Sep 29, 2020)

Warfox said:


> I wish I was cutting this week: im going to try to push it out as far as possible 2 weeks if I can.


I still have a few that need a week or two for ripeness. In my neck of the woods you balance ripeness with risk of mildew. The later into fall I go the greater the risk due to cool weather. 

I was chopping & trimming last night. Still finding single eggs on the bottom of sugar leafs. My spraying strategy is working well though. When you spray for weeks the caterpillar isn't able to burrow into the flower at all which is where they wreak havock. They hatch, one bite and dead. They fall off at that point or get eaten by spiders and other predatory insects.


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## HardBudz (Sep 30, 2020)

DIRTHAWKER said:


> I had to chop the colas off of two of my best plants and harvest early beacuse of these bud worms. What happends is, butterfly moths lay there eggs in the bud and a week or so later you get the worms that eat your bud and there excriment is what rots the bud from inside out.


Thia is what happening to me. Its so many and their fucking up my buds. I wqs thinking about harvesting early to save what i got. What would you suggest?


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## jbcCT (Sep 30, 2020)

HardBudz said:


> Thia is what happening to me. Its so many and their fucking up my buds. I wqs thinking about harvesting early to save what i got. What would you suggest?


At this point you maybe salvage what you can. You go through it thoroughly and most certainly wash the hell out of it, with water peroxide mix in a 5 gallon bucket. You need to check where the flower meets the branch to see if they shit in there. Will be like a black grit.

Depending on the unseen damage it may just be a wrap on the whole thing. If they are knocking colas out they've been in your plants a while. I have a very low tolerance for contamination, not sure what you're willing to accept.

The only way to keep them off the plants is to start spraying after sexing and don't stop. Next time you grow outdoors you'll be ready. I learn something new every year growing outside just from my own past fuck ups.


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## midgesmith (Oct 3, 2020)

I've had a load of eggs under leaves the last week. I've been picking them off where I can see them.

What do you recommend to spray plants with to protect them against these critters?

[EDIT] Sorry dude, just read up properly. Peroxide...


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## Sir Napsalot (Oct 4, 2020)

midgesmith said:


> I've had a load of eggs under leaves the last week. I've been picking them off where I can see them.
> 
> What do you recommend to spray plants with to protect them against these critters?
> 
> [EDIT] Sorry dude, just read up properly. Peroxide...


You want to spray BT, not peroxide


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## midgesmith (Oct 4, 2020)

Oh yeah, I've heard that mentioned before, thanks for correcting me there!

I'm new to outdoor gardening, so all this info is gold. Bacillus Thuringiensis BT spray to kill them, peroxide to disinfect / clean out their mess I guess. (I've long handed it there so I can check back  )

I'm probably going to harvest my last tomorrow, so I'll get some in next year for the next generation of plants


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## jbcCT (Oct 7, 2020)

My strawberry milk is off the drying rack. Been doing a second dry trim this week. I'll post some pics. Not a single worm on those three plants. No damage.

My kush 4 is liking this chilly weather. Probably two weeks out. Last BT treatment done today. No damage present.


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## HardBudz (Oct 8, 2020)

jbcCT said:


> At this point you maybe salvage what you can. You go through it thoroughly and most certainly wash the hell out of it, with water peroxide mix in a 5 gallon bucket. You need to check where the flower meets the branch to see if they shit in there. Will be like a black grit.
> 
> Depending on the unseen damage it may just be a wrap on the whole thing. If they are knocking colas out they've been in your plants a while. I have a very low tolerance for contamination, not sure what you're willing to accept.
> 
> The only way to keep them off the plants is to start spraying after sexing and don't stop. Next time you grow outdoors you'll be ready. I learn something new every year growing outside just from my own past fuck ups.


I just took one down yesterday. Trying to salvage what i can like you said. The BT stuff works great, wish i would have know about it sooner. It hurts, but i learned some valuable Information...‍


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## jbcCT (Oct 9, 2020)

That kush is turning black. Fucking love it....


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## itsmeifti (Oct 13, 2020)

Any UK suppliers for BT spray? Can't seem to find any? Many thanks!


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## BagseedBobby (Oct 16, 2020)

Has anyone used nets to keep away moths and butterflies from laying eggs during early flower? What was your experience like, if you have?

I don’t like to use foliar sprays, and was hoping for a more natural route. Had the little budworms come up this last week, and they’ve already taken out about 2-3oz of my plants (only grow the 4 plants). I meticulously check them every day or every other, so I’ve been able to catch and remove quite a few. I also budwash like Doc Brix so insects/poop isn‘t the biggest issue, just the mold and decay that happens when they munch on my ladies.


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## Kerowacked (Oct 16, 2020)

Seeing a lot of these as they hang dry. You have to backlight the buds to see their silk thread. Never see a moth but my girls get peppered every year with eggs. My new theory is the eggs are laid in fences and walls as clusters then individually go airborne as they dry and detach. This one is good sized And a day or two old i guess, most are much smaller as they hatch.


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## potroastV2 (Oct 17, 2020)

Yes, I've been inspecting my hanging plants with a back light for 30 years! I usually find a few of them trying to escape the dying plant.

If they make it down to the floor, the carpet will kill them.


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## NebieDewbieGrower (Oct 17, 2020)

Kerowacked said:


> Seeing a lot of these as they hang dry. You have to backlight the buds to see their silk thread. Never see a moth but my girls get peppered every year with eggs. My new theory is the eggs are laid in fences and walls as clusters then individually go airborne as they dry and detach. This one is good sized And a day or two old i guess, most are much smaller as they hatch.View attachment 4715813View attachment 4715814


Saw one on each of my hanging plants, so I did a quick wash again.. Also took my plant down after having to remove so many. BT the remainder today and will try to let them go until Nov 1


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## jbcCT (Oct 24, 2020)

itsmeifti said:


> Any UK suppliers for BT spray? Can't seem to find any? Many thanks!


Forgive me for sounding stupid but do you folks have Amazon across the pond. That's where I ordered mine for this summer. You want Monterey BT.


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## jbcCT (Oct 24, 2020)

Kerowacked said:


> Seeing a lot of these as they hang dry. You have to backlight the buds to see their silk thread. Never see a moth but my girls get peppered every year with eggs. My new theory is the eggs are laid in fences and walls as clusters then individually go airborne as they dry and detach. This one is good sized And a day or two old i guess, most are much smaller as they hatch.View attachment 4715813View attachment 4715814


Been there my man. Those are paratroopers. They sense their main food source dying and they are hitting the eject button.

One of the issues with that is the flower is likely contaminated. If they are shooting silk they were tucked in tight, eating your flower and defecating along the way.

You would need to get in close to where the bud meets the stem and look around. Any black grit is poop and I'm not sure you wanna smoke that. 

Like I said before, I have low to no tolerance for contaminated bud. To each is own. Next time around you get on the BT train and you'll be fine. 

I do a really good wet cut followed by washing in 5 gallon buckets. It's almost like I'm prepping vegetables out of the garden. You really need to inspect and cut away damage prior to the wash and hang if your trying to save stuff.


----------



## jbcCT (Oct 24, 2020)

BagseedBobby said:


> Has anyone used nets to keep away moths and butterflies from laying eggs during early flower? What was your experience like, if you have?
> 
> I don’t like to use foliar sprays, and was hoping for a more natural route. Had the little budworms come up this last week, and they’ve already taken out about 2-3oz of my plants (only grow the 4 plants). I meticulously check them every day or every other, so I’ve been able to catch and remove quite a few. I also budwash like Doc Brix so insects/poop isn‘t the biggest issue, just the mold and decay that happens when they munch on my ladies.
> 
> View attachment 4715748



A couple people in this thread used netting this year and still ended up with worms. The only way to keep these things off your plants is spraying BT throughout the outdoor season. It's a biologic not a pesticide. It's well diluted, a teaspoon per hand sprayer. Has zero impact on the plants, bud or taste. Plus if you wash your outdoor before you hang dry......good to go.


----------



## Kerowacked (Oct 24, 2020)

jbcCT said:


> Been there my man. Those are paratroopers. They sense their main food source dying and they are hitting the eject button.
> 
> One of the issues with that is the flower is likely contaminated. If they are shooting silk they were tucked in tight, eating your flower and defecating along the way.
> 
> ...


The paratroopers are all less than a day old so they don’t mess up the buds, obviously tiny but capable of spinning silk. I do a weak peroxide wash and water rinse, buds are clean, i think it kills mold spores too.


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## doug mirabelli (Oct 24, 2020)

I just wanna say fuck a bud worm


----------



## Kerowacked (Oct 24, 2020)

jbcCT said:


> A couple people in this thread used netting this year and still ended up with worms. The only way to keep these things off your plants is spraying BT throughout the outdoor season. It's a biologic not a pesticide. It's well diluted, a teaspoon per hand sprayer. Has zero impact on the plants, bud or taste. Plus if you wash your outdoor before you hang dry......good to go.


The reason netting fails is the eggs are dropping from overhangs individually. I see a lot more cats(killed by btk early on) and eggs in plants closer to the house than in the open yard. Netting might even increase the egg count.


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## doug mirabelli (Oct 24, 2020)

Kerowacked said:


> The reason netting fails is the eggs are dropping from overhangs individually. I see a lot more cats(killed by btk early on) and eggs in plants closer to the house than in the open yard. Netting might even increase the egg count.


Bt throughout flower too?does a greenhouse work?


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## Kerowacked (Oct 24, 2020)

doug mirabelli said:


> Bt throughout flower too?does a greenhouse work?


Be the moth, wheres that little mother laying her load? But yeah, btk works great, i use Thuricide, its 15%.


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## PDiddyDank (Oct 25, 2020)

jbcCT said:


> A couple people in this thread used netting this year and still ended up with worms. The only way to keep these things off your plants is spraying BT throughout the outdoor season. It's a biologic not a pesticide. It's well diluted, a teaspoon per hand sprayer. Has zero impact on the plants, bud or taste. Plus if you wash your outdoor before you hang dry......good to go.


I used a net and lost a few colas due to worms. However, I made the mistake of jamming my net full of more plants than I intended and this caused several fan leafs to touch the perimeter of the netting, allowing moths to lay eggs where the leafs pushed up against the netting. This was an operator error, rather than an inherent flaw in the net being used as a barrier. Lesson learned: provide ample space in the netted off area to avoid plant to net contact.


----------



## Sir Napsalot (Nov 3, 2020)

I didn't have any caterpillar or other bug damage this year


----------



## injinji (Dec 1, 2020)

Sir Napsalot said:


> I didn't have any caterpillar or other bug damage this year


I only saw one cat during flowering this season. But there were some Army worms in my late season seedling trays.


----------



## Humboldtcalikidd (Dec 1, 2020)

Bud worms I believe are from a moth that lands and lays eggs. Horned moth I believe. Net your plants or put them in a green house. Once they lay eggs they hatch and eat you plant until nothing is left.


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## injinji (Dec 1, 2020)

Humboldtcalikidd said:


> Bud worms I believe are from a moth that lands and lays eggs. Horned moth I believe. Net your plants or put them in a green house. Once they lay eggs they hatch and eat you plant until nothing is left.


Some folks have more infrastructure than others. Here is an example of my grow room.


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## Sir Napsalot (Dec 15, 2020)

Humboldtcalikidd said:


> Bud worms I believe are from a moth that lands and lays eggs. Horned moth I believe. Net your plants or put them in a green house. Once they lay eggs they hatch and eat you plant until nothing is left.


Actually, a number of different moths are the culprits
Also, it isn't so much that they* eat* your plant, it's that their shit grows a mold (which is not botrytis) that affects a localized area


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## Humboldtcalikidd (Dec 16, 2020)

Sir Napsalot said:


> Actually, a number of different moths are the culprits
> Also, it isn't so much that they* eat* your plant, it's that their shit grows a mold (which is not botrytis) that affects a localized area


I’ve noticed all above. Good call, what is the best way to make sure this doesn’t happen? Netting? Greenhouse?


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## Sir Napsalot (Dec 16, 2020)

Humboldtcalikidd said:


> I’ve noticed all above. Good call, what is the best way to make sure this doesn’t happen? Netting? Greenhouse?


I spray Monterey BT when there are moths about

I'll use it up until ~2 weeks from harvest if need be


----------



## mogie (Dec 23, 2020)

We accidentally found something to eat the bud worms. We constructed a bird feeding area and one day I went out to water the plants and at least 25 little birds came flying out of our Blue Dream. They must have found worms to munch on because when we harvested only found less then 4. So the birds get a place to stay out of the sun and we got 100% natural solution to that problem. 
Happy accident!


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## M.O. (Feb 1, 2021)

Do you ever notice wasps hunting around your beautiful trees? I’d love to get an outdoor plant to harvest but I’ve learned a lot just growing veggies and know I’d have trouble. 

Last year in Michigan around me we had an explosion of yellow jackets and hornets, as well as more mini and solitary wasps than I ever knew existed. They definitely hunted in my garden. 

I can’t say for sure but I think they farmed every moth/caterpillar in the yard. We always have tons of white caterpillars on the mulberries and there were zero. It was crazy. None. Maybe they didn’t cycle but I see them every year. 

Then I read corn naturally attracts a wasp to eat moth eggs. A burrowing moth/caterpillar that works just like one that eats cannabis. 

What do you think? Am I connecting stuff or just off in a cloud of vape lmao.


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## M.O. (Feb 8, 2021)

Not sure if people check here ever but yea wasps do hunt cannabis. Pretty freaking cool interview with an entomologist Suzanne Wainwright-Evans on the Shaping Fire podcast from July 17th 2020 “the difficult reality of banker and trap plants”. Apparently I’m just way behind the times.


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## M.O. (Feb 9, 2021)

I made it sound like Suzanne said wasps hunt our plants but that was just my haste. That was my research. 

More important in her interview was talking about the Minute Pirate Bug and plants to attract and keep them around like Allysum


----------



## shwamp (Feb 9, 2021)

Is there a certain terpene that caterpillars are more attracted to? I had a caterpillar problem on my last outdoor grow and most plants had minimal damage but there was one variety where all 3 of them seemed to have a good amount of caterpillar damage. It was an archive cross of papaya x moonbow. Anybody else experience anything like this?


----------



## aoseman90 (Mar 10, 2021)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


I know this is old but wow is that ever a beautiful lady right there. Them hues of red wow but stunning.


----------



## Newb2indoor (Mar 19, 2021)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


Hate those things. On a sidenote wonderful looking buds what strain is the one labeled picture 11. She’s beautiful in pink


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## Daffy Dank (Apr 4, 2021)

Im actually considering building a little screen cage around my plant to help keep moths out. Should be relatively small girl, its a blue cheese auto, so wouldnt have to be elaborate. Frame out with some 1×1 material and affix window screen. Its a good location and well concealed.


----------



## Massachusetts86 (Apr 15, 2021)

The best product I've found that works is captain jacks dead bug. Being from the north east those bastards don't quit. I've never used anything better. That for the girls and I use diatomaceous earth for the ground.


----------



## Massachusetts86 (Apr 15, 2021)

Massachusetts86 said:


> The best product I've found that works is captain jacks dead bug. Being from the north east those bastards don't quit. I've never used anything better. That for the girls and I use diatomaceous earth for the ground.


Try not to spray the buds, I found even when my buds were hit last year with captain Jacks growing purple afghan and ice it had no effect whatsoever. Within 5 days the problem was solved , worms were dead , and I didn't have that problem again


----------



## surfgeo (Apr 27, 2021)

just my $.02 from years of growing tomatoes and veggies - alternate the spinosad and the BT. many pests will buil a tolerance


----------



## FresnoFarmer (Apr 28, 2021)

Trichogramma


----------



## Mud-dog (May 5, 2021)

What Is the name of BT worm killer if I'm trying to by some?


----------



## Kerowacked (May 5, 2021)

Mud-dog said:


> What Is the name of BT worm killer if I'm trying to by some?


Monterey or Thuricide, be sure it is btk not bti.


----------



## Southernontariogrower (May 5, 2021)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


Kill them all with love from northern hemisphere.


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## Southernontariogrower (May 5, 2021)

Mud-dog said:


> What Is the name of BT worm killer if I'm trying to by some?


Pick them off, kill moths big bug zapper! They shit everywhere. Bastards! Wouldnt spray my buds with anything. See a butterfly lt better fucken fly. Ill kill it!


----------



## Mud-dog (May 6, 2021)

Kerowacked said:


> Monterey or Thuricide, be sure it is btk not bti.


Thanks for the information


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## jbcCT (May 7, 2021)

How's everybody been? It's that time. Plenty of spraying and egg destruction coming to a backyard near you.


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## Diverse&disordered (May 7, 2021)

I’m glad I live in an area where we don’t get those little devils!


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## jbcCT (May 7, 2021)

Diverse&disordered said:


> I’m glad I live in an area where we don’t get those little devils!


Do tell. Are you in a region of the U.S? I'm not sure what areas moth / caterpillar species are non existent. Interesting. Good for you though. We've got worm control nailed down pretty well in this thread.


----------



## BullerDude420 (May 26, 2021)

bterz said:


> wtf I thought this was all stuff up north.
> 
> If your plants are in pots does this reduce the chance of getting them....
> 
> Damn im scared now!!


I got mine in 5 gallon fabric pots sitting on a bench and still find them when looking through them. Bright flash light during dark hours I find it best to spot em out if you do have any problems.


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## gcubebuddy (May 26, 2021)

potroast said:


> For budworms, you should spray your plants every 3 weeks with BT, a beneficial bacteria, throughout their veg state, and the first half of flowering. That will keep the worms from growing on your plants. And that way, you don't have to spray your ripening buds.
> 
> BT will affect the taste of your bud if used too late in the season. It's just fine to wash your plants before harvest. Even my indoor plants are sometimes taken outside on harvest day and sprayed down well with a fine spray, and then dried for a couple of hours and harvested.
> 
> HTH


Hi i saw this post and had a question. does the BT also work for corn? i have had worms chew up my corn like its going out of style. i am wondering if it is the same insect. it looks the same as the ones chewing up my corn.... And is BT non-toxic?


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## Kerowacked (May 26, 2021)

A little research says btk is commonly used on sweetcorn. It is organic, you gotta spray early to get them on the silk before they move into the ear.


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## xtsho (May 28, 2021)

surfgeo said:


> just my $.02 from years of growing tomatoes and veggies - alternate the spinosad and the BT. many pests will buil a tolerance


Spinosad is highly toxic to bees. If you spray that stuff do it in the evening when bees are not active. I won't use it in my garden. My backyard is 100% bee safe. But regarding vegetables, why would you spray something that kills the pollinators that are needed to pollinate the plants? 

I just found these living in a birdhouse in the backyard today.







Please think about what you spray outdoors. There are plenty of options that are bee safe that should be used.


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## gcubebuddy (Jun 11, 2021)

I just went out to my garden during break and saw a caterpillar climbing up on 2 plants. i got this stuff and dusted all my plants with it. it now looks like christmas snow on my plants. i dont know how good this stuff is. i got it at a garden nursery a while ago when i was attempting to grow corn. i also noticed a catapillar on my tomato plant as well.... hopfully this stuff will keep them off...


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## gcubebuddy (Jun 16, 2021)

So I was looking up what this insecticide is. Apparently it’s made from bacteria that eats insects but leaves bees alone. Interesting… so far it’s kept the catipllers off my plants….


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## Kerowacked (Jun 16, 2021)

gcubebuddy said:


> So I was looking up what this insecticide is. Apparently it’s made from bacteria that eats insects but leaves bees alone. Interesting… so far it’s kept the catipllers off my plants….


0.6% btk is not a lot, monterey is 99% and Thuricide about 15%. Guessing the other 99% is diatomaceous earth. Btk comes from butterfly gut and is deadly when caterpillars eat it. They dry up and fall off.


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## gcubebuddy (Jun 16, 2021)

Wow interesting… I would have never guessed that it was made from butterfly guts… interesting that it would be poisonous to catapillars…


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## FidelCa$hflow (Jun 21, 2021)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


I dont think the name of those strains matters as much as you keeping them alive. Those are monster sativa strains. The worms suck but i think youll still have buds lol


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## slumerican666 (Jun 23, 2021)

So this stuff has helped my soil and plants stay strong and healthy. Haven't had any real issues with pests.. just trying to be as helpful as possible. Hydroponic research has some decent products


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## jbcCT (Jul 4, 2021)

Just as a reminder. If you have had caterpillar and worm issues in the past expect them every year. The formula for success is real simple;

-you must pre spray them with BT before you even see a single worm. 
-right as pre-flower starts for most.
-continue to spray from July right up until harvest at least twice a week
-best time is early morning. You want the sun to dry the product for best results.
-visually inspect the plants and remove by hand any egg clutches. 
-waiting until you have an infestation spells doom

I reduced damage to my plants by over 95% the last two seasons. When you spray early and consistently, the eggs that do hatch will die with the first bite of your plant. I spray BT on fully formed buds and it has no impact on taste or quality. I wash my outdoor before I hang anyway. Gets rid of any dust, small flies and particulate.

Good luck this season. I'll be throwing up some pics this year. I got in the dirt a little late this season but I think it will work out.

I bought some midnight frost from SGG. I guess it's crossed with DJ Short F13 blueberry. Got some bodhi lines as well.


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## YardG (Jul 6, 2021)

Heard on the radio that this is gonna be a particularly bad years for caterpillars, as the state didn't do much recon and spraying last year.


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## Sir Napsalot (Jul 7, 2021)

jbcCT said:


> I spray BT on fully formed buds


I don't spray buds- the moths generally lay their eggs on leaves big enough to support their clutch, then the caterpillars make their way to the flowers, eating the BT on the way

I've never found a dead caterpillar in a bud- this is just my personal experience and I agree with everything else you posted


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## Kerowacked (Jul 7, 2021)

I’ve never found an egg cluster on fan leaves, only single eggs stuck to sugar leaves. I firmly believe the eggs are laid elsewhere and drift in the wind like pollen til they stick to something.


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## potroastV2 (Jul 7, 2021)

Your "firm beliefs" are incorrect.

There are no moth eggs flying around in the wind.


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## Kerowacked (Jul 7, 2021)

rollitup said:


> Your "firm beliefs" are incorrect.
> 
> There are no moth eggs flying around in the wind.


Doesn’t really matter how they get there, could be the fall faeries spread ‘em like the Easter freaking bunny.


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## jbcCT (Jul 8, 2021)

Kerowacked said:


> I’ve never found an egg cluster on fan leaves, only single eggs stuck to sugar leaves. I firmly believe the eggs are laid elsewhere and drift in the wind like pollen til they stick to something.View attachment 4938646


Great post. For the first time last year I started removing single eggs off my buds every morning. We're dealing with multiple species. Some drop the singles off, some lay the clutch at the leaf tip.


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## jbcCT (Jul 8, 2021)

Match set, game on. Here we are first week of July in the NE and the battle lines have been drawn. Sprayed first BT application this morning. I found three just hatched singles yesterday. It's twice a week here on out. 

Pro tip; buy yourself a decent hand sprayer. Don't be cheap. For larger outdoor crops you can get the bulb attachment that fits on a hose. 

If your hand spraying, bend a knee and spray upward motion. You want complete coverage, even leaf bottoms. Coat the stems too. Really get in those nooks & crannies before they cover with flower.


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## Kerowacked (Jul 8, 2021)

And cover your eyes and nose!


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## Sir Napsalot (Jul 8, 2021)

Kerowacked said:


> I’ve never found an egg cluster on fan leaves, only single eggs stuck to sugar leaves. I firmly believe the eggs are laid elsewhere and drift in the wind like pollen til they stick to something.View attachment 4938646




I took this pic


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## Kerowacked (Jul 8, 2021)

Sir Napsalot said:


> View attachment 4939729
> 
> I took this pic


Flying salmon


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## Sir Napsalot (Jul 8, 2021)

I put that leaf in a plastic bag and in 4-5 days it was full of hundreds of tiny caterpillars, which would have posed a definite threat to my plant had they not expired in a plastic bag


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## jbcCT (Jul 18, 2021)

Sir Napsalot said:


> I put that leaf in a plastic bag and in 4-5 days it was full of hundreds of tiny caterpillars, which would have posed a definite threat to my plant had they not expired in a plastic bag


I copied you. I snipped off a leaf tip too. As soon as the plant matter dies they hatch. It was actually your pic that got scanning my leaf tips every day.


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## jbcCT (Jul 18, 2021)

So here's a good example of why pre treatment and frequent treatment with BT is important to keeping your plants super clean. Inspecting my plants this morning the sniper moth, lone egg droppers were busy last night.



With rain and morning dew you need to thoroughly spray at least once a week. When they hatch they are the size of a human hair. One bite of BT and thats it. They will fall off the plant or be eaten by a variety of other helpful pests, like spiders.


----------



## Slicksmitty (Jul 26, 2021)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


Bud Worms??? Never heard of such a thing! Please tell me the are just in states other than virginia. I fight enough battles with spiders, snails, and aphids. Please no more.


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## jbcCT (Aug 5, 2021)

Slicksmitty said:


> Bud Worms??? Never heard of such a thing! Please tell me the are just in states other than virginia. I fight enough battles with spiders, snails, and aphids. Please no more.


I'm in the northeast and I cant imagine moths are unique to my state alone. They are silent assassin's. In my region several species of moth lay eggs from early July to late October. 

I wouldn't be able to even grow outside unless I had BT. 

So if you have plants outdoors right now I highly suggest you purchase a bottle ASAP and apply it as soon as possible.


----------



## Jsingh (Aug 11, 2021)

KushKing949 said:


> why in the world would you do that?????? i would seriously like to see you do it. I think it would be funny. and a lil dee dee dee !


I've seen a friend take a few and freeze them then eat them... No joke .. he said eating them got him lit. .


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## Sir Napsalot (Aug 23, 2021)

I actually haven't seen that many moths this year, but I'm spraying BT every week


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## Kerowacked (Aug 23, 2021)

Sir Napsalot said:


> I actually haven't seen that many moths this year, but I'm spraying BT every week


Just hit mine tonight hopefully for the last time but i found an egg today, about two weeks in flower


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## VolimPicke (Aug 24, 2021)

Would it be a possible solution to use "bags" of translucent fabrics such as polyester organza and then tie these over the buds that you want to protect?

Being a translucent fabric sunlight will enter and the plant can breather but little critters will not be able to get onto your buds. 

Something like this








Organza Bags, Organza Gift Bags, Organza Favor Bags in Stock - ULINE.ca


Uline stocks a wide selection of Organza Bags. Order by 6 p.m. for same day shipping. Huge Catalog! Over 40,000 products in stock. Two Locations in Canada for fast delivery of Organza Bags.




www.uline.ca


----------



## GlassJoe (Aug 24, 2021)

I've started spraying BT a couple of times a week, but I was wondering if anyone has had success supplementing their pest control with sticky traps to get the adults. My main source of budworm pressure is southern pink moth, pyrausta inornatalis (see picture). 

BT does a good job, I just have the misfortune of having a salvia in my yard that I can't get rid of (which provides habitat for them), so anything to supplement the spraying regimen would be appreciated. I spray the salvia as well as my plants.

__


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## Nex420 (Aug 24, 2021)

You know how I like my catties?

Full on BT smoothies


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## Kerowacked (Aug 24, 2021)

Nex420 said:


> You know how I like my catties?
> 
> Full on BT smoothies
> View attachment 4971866


Cabbage moth egg?


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## Nex420 (Aug 25, 2021)

Kerowacked said:


> Cabbage moth egg?
> View attachment 4971919


With how much I hate these cocksuckers, I don’t do the extra work in identifying the species of Moth.

I just kill them. They all deserve to die.


----------



## See green (Aug 25, 2021)

Yip, this is the week they usually start for me in the North east. This was August 30 last year. Once you see the egg it gets easier to see more. The problem is the ones you miss. Its impossible to remember witch flowers you checked. The BT spray is the only thing I have found that will get 95% of these pricks after they hatch. The second picture was September 22.


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## Nex420 (Aug 25, 2021)

See green said:


> Yip, this is the week they usually start for me in the North east. This was August 30 last year. Once you see the egg it gets easier to see more. The problem is the ones you miss. Its impossible to remember witch flowers you checked. The BT spray is the only thing I have found that will get 95% of these pricks after they hatch. The second picture was September 22.View attachment 4972475View attachment 4972476


Agreed. I try to pick as many as I can but once you have a dozen or so plants flowering it gets to be tedious. 

BT all the way. I’ve had to go to a 2-3 day rotation since the heats been so bad this year.


----------



## FishingwithDave (Aug 25, 2021)

I’ve pretty much encapsulated my grow area with 30% shade cloth. There’s definitely some challenges with doing this, but twine, fencing stakes, bamboo stakes and shotgun hulls help prop up the netting fairly well.

The moths around here in Central California appear to be too big to get through the shade cloth, and I hope that’s true. So far so good and I have seen moths all over my unprotected veggie garden area. I seem to have fewer grasshoppers too, but I’ve killed a couple of those today. Those bastards are smarter than the moths. I’m still spraying BT weekly and inspecting daily, but haven’t found any eggs or worms yet . Has anybody else tried shade cloth to protect their plants from bud worms?


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## Str86ed (Aug 27, 2021)

bterz said:


> wtf I thought this was all stuff up north.
> 
> If your plants are in pots does this reduce the chance of getting them....
> 
> Damn im scared now!!


I’m in Virginia and it’s my first grow and these a$$holes are everywhere all over my bud plants and all other food kinda plants it’s heartbreaking and mine have leaf spot too now I want to cry

ohh mine are in POTS so the answer is no pots don’t make a poop


----------



## Str86ed (Aug 27, 2021)

Kludge said:


> Use neem oil. It's safe for fruiting plants which means it won't kill you if you spray it on the buds.


mans ive read not to spray neem on budding plants because there is no testing done on the effects of smoking neem. But I’m sure I’ve smoked them all in the crap I’ve bought over that past 20 years


----------



## Str86ed (Aug 27, 2021)

-=4:20=-Guy said:


> Wow those are some vibrant colors on your girls there; what strain are they?


That’s what I say


----------



## Cycad (Aug 29, 2021)

I'm coming across them on my plants now but not too many, I just pick them off. I wonder if spiders go for them? There are a few crab and wolf spiders on my plants, I think they keep the bugs down.


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## Autodoctor (Aug 29, 2021)

KushKing949 said:


> why in the world would you do that?????? i would seriously like to see you do it. I think it would be funny. and a lil dee dee dee !


Wonder if they would pop like seeds


----------



## buckaclark (Aug 29, 2021)

There are very similar worms in my peppers.a hole at the top.plus im seeing some brown buds lower on the stalk in the center.with white debris...


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## farmingfisherman (Aug 29, 2021)

Once a plant starts flowering can a person still spray with BT safely?


----------



## FishingwithDave (Aug 29, 2021)

farmingfisherman said:


> Once a plant starts flowering can a person still spray with BT safely?


Most everything I’ve read says it’s ok. I’m spraying mine weekly since they began flowering. I was spraying Neem oil but stopped spraying that after they started flowering.


----------



## islewarp (Aug 30, 2021)

farmingfisherman said:


> Once a plant starts flowering can a person still spray with BT safely?


I've heard it can affect the taste depending on how late you spray but I found caterpillar shits in my Apricot Kush plant and blasted the thing in BT a week or two ago. Seems fine now, in both caterpillar damage and smells just as nice as it did before.


----------



## See green (Aug 30, 2021)

I usually stop spraying about three weeks before harvest just to be safe. It has never affected the taste for me. This was a little while ago there starting to hatch now.


----------



## See green (Aug 30, 2021)

This one is a little harder to see.


----------



## FishingwithDave (Aug 30, 2021)

See green said:


> This one is a little harder to see. View attachment 4976397


I found it, but damn, it wasn’t easy! Bastards!!!


----------



## BudHuntersGuild (Sep 3, 2021)

PVC trellis frame wrapped in mosquito netting to stop the moths from laying eggs. BT and tweezers to take care of the current caterpillars


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## FishingwithDave (Sep 3, 2021)

BudHuntersGuild said:


> PVC trellis frame wrapped in mosquito netting to stop the moths from laying eggs. BT and tweezers to take care of the current caterpillars


Nice setup! How long have you had it setup and can you tell yet if it is filtering out too much sunlight?

I’m currently using 30% shade cloth and it seems to be working. I have mosquito netting ready to use if those bastards start showing up inside on my plants, but I haven’t put it up yet out of concerns of filtering out too much sunlight.


----------



## BudHuntersGuild (Sep 3, 2021)

FishingwithDave said:


> Nice setup! How long have you had it setup and can you tell yet if it is filtering out too much sunlight?
> 
> I’m currently using 30% shade cloth and it seems to be working. I have mosquito netting ready to use if those bastards start showing up inside on my plants, but I haven’t put it up yet out of concerns of filtering out too much sunlight.


I tried taking my pulse pro outside to measure PPFD but its out of wifi range. I used a lumen meter on my phone just to get an idea. inside the netting i loose about 5%. I think its worth it to not have to worry about caterpillars.


----------



## FishingwithDave (Sep 3, 2021)

BudHuntersGuild said:


> I tried taking my pulse pro outside to measure PPFD but its out of wifi range. I used a lumen meter on my phone just to get an idea. inside the netting i loose about 5%. I think its worth it to not have to worry about caterpillars.


Totally agree! Thanks for the valuable info.


----------



## Shinichichiba (Sep 3, 2021)

Str86ed said:


> mans ive read not to spray neem on budding plants because there is no testing done on the effects of smoking neem. But I’m sure I’ve smoked them all in the crap I’ve bought over that past 20 years


Yeah, you don't want neem in your budds, vegetables you eat don't absorb and retain it the way a budding plant does. The statement that it is safe on vegetables so it's safe to spray on budding plants is false and misleading.


----------



## crownpoodle (Sep 4, 2021)

BudHuntersGuild said:


> PVC trellis frame wrapped in mosquito netting to stop the moths from laying eggs. BT and tweezers to take care of the current caterpillars


A little late for this year, but this is flicking genius in my book. I got thrashed this year by them.


----------



## jbcCT (Sep 6, 2021)

Kerowacked said:


> Just hit mine tonight hopefully for the last time but i found an egg today, about two weeks in flower


I harvest end of October and continue bt treatment up until about a week before harvest. Once the buds fatten I also do a morning sweep and will hand remove any eggs I see as well. Toothpick, tweezers. Moths are aggressive egg layers. 

When I pull it down I do a complete trim and scour the branches for any pests or damage. I then wash the buds in 5 gallon buckets with a cup of peroxide mixed in. 

I'll post some pics soon. Best of luck to all finishing up this season.


----------



## jbcCT (Sep 6, 2021)

VolimPicke said:


> Would it be a possible solution to use "bags" of translucent fabrics such as polyester organza and then tie these over the buds that you want to protect?
> 
> Being a translucent fabric sunlight will enter and the plant can breather but little critters will not be able to get onto your buds.
> 
> ...


A few of the guys out here tried this last year. The moths were able to overcome the netting. Any branches touching the nets got hit with eggs. All you need is bt boys


----------



## jbcCT (Sep 6, 2021)

See green said:


> I usually stop spraying about three weeks before harvest just to be safe. It has never affected the taste for me. This was a little while ago there starting to hatch now. View attachment 4976378View attachment 4976379


Keep spraying right until harvest. Do you wash your outdoor before you hang it?


----------



## jbcCT (Sep 6, 2021)

farmingfisherman said:


> Once a plant starts flowering can a person still spray with BT safely?


BT will not impact the quality or taste of your smoke at all. However worms shitting and eating your buds will. It's water soluble and I would suggest washing the bud before you hang it.


----------



## Tucker wucker (Sep 6, 2021)

CrazyChester said:


> Chowing down on your buds at this very moment. At least their chowing down on mine. I hit them with some with some BT this evening.
> 
> I have a question or two for those who have used BT in the past. Does it effect the quality of the weed. (Taste, Buzz....) And is it really safe for smoking. How long do you have to wait after spraying before you harvest. I've been using BT on my garden for decades without any problems but I always wash the food I grow before I eat it. But I'd have to be crazy to wash my weed before smoking it. Though I could give it a little spray down a few days before harvest. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


Making bho is plan B


----------



## phrygian44 (Sep 7, 2021)

KushKing949 said:


> why in the world would you do that?????? i would seriously like to see you do it. I think it would be funny. and a lil dee dee dee !


'cause you eat the worm at the bottom of the Tequila bottle. it's no different with the worm that's gorged itself on cannabinoids and terpenes.


----------



## Bobdobbs420 (Sep 10, 2021)

I had budworms last year I really didnt realize until after harvest when i noticed all the little acrobats dangling in the drying room. they really seemed to hate the drying aspect of things. it was like a mass exodus! This year im using BT in hopes that I dont have the same issue. Honestly though I really didnt seem to notice any real adverse effects from the worms having once residing on the buds (i know smoking worm poop isn't ideal). What i would like to know is what does the moth look like that lays the eggs that produce the caterpillars??? Identifying that might be a great help in preventing them from starting in the first place. Is it the same damn white moth that lays eggs on squash/zuccini that kills the plant from the stem up?


----------



## buckaclark (Sep 10, 2021)

Welcome,Look up Fiery Skipper.Also here the white moth infests our Brassicas ,squash stems are attacked by hard shell bugs that look somewhat like stinkbugs.


----------



## jbcCT (Sep 11, 2021)

Bobdobbs420 said:


> I had budworms last year I really didnt realize until after harvest when i noticed all the little acrobats dangling in the drying room. they really seemed to hate the drying aspect of things. it was like a mass exodus! This year im using BT in hopes that I dont have the same issue. Honestly though I really didnt seem to notice any real adverse effects from the worms having once residing on the buds (i know smoking worm poop isn't ideal). What i would like to know is what does the moth look like that lays the eggs that produce the caterpillars??? Identifying that might be a great help in preventing them from starting in the first place. Is it the same damn white moth that lays eggs on squash/zuccini that kills the plant from the stem up?


There are multiple varieties. The common white moth bouncing along your lawn in summer is just one type. I see a brown moth frequently as well.

Good story on harvesting. Once the plant matter starts to die they shoot down that silk and bail out. That also means the harvest is ruined. Once the flower dries it's harder to spot contamination.

Prior to hanging you need to do a complete sweep as you wet trip. Use the tip on the shears to open or push aside bud attached to the stem. This will expose any of the black grit. The ideal situation is to keep contaminated bud off the drying rack. 

If you used BT weekly this year from the start of flower to finish you will be just fine. Let is know how it turns out.


----------



## laddyd (Sep 11, 2021)

We are having an epic moth and butterfly season in Arizona, I mean almost biblical they are swarming like gnats! Little bastards ruined some plants I had moved outside. I found out about budworms when the tops started dying. At first I thought it was just the heat until I found caterpillars on my bud sites.


----------



## Kerowacked (Sep 13, 2021)

FML!


----------



## FishingwithDave (Sep 13, 2021)

Kerowacked said:


> FML!View attachment 4986240View attachment 4986242


Are you spraying BT?


----------



## Bobdobbs420 (Sep 13, 2021)

jbcCT said:


> There are multiple varieties. The common white moth bouncing along your lawn in summer is just one type. I see a brown moth frequently as well.
> 
> Good story on harvesting. Once the plant matter starts to die they shoot down that silk and bail out. That also means the harvest is ruined. Once the flower dries it's harder to spot contamination.
> If you used BT weekly this year from the start of flower to finish you will be just fine. Let is know how it turns out.


 I wouldn't say ruined as i and everyone who tried last years crop enjoyed. It was more of a wakeup call to get ahead of the little buggers this year. and Up they are back not as bad though BT is seeming to work


----------



## Kerowacked (Sep 13, 2021)

FishingwithDave said:


> Are you spraying BT?


Yeah, probably 10 days ago, don’t want to spray again if i don’t have to. I’ll check her tonight with uv to see if i missed any. They’re fresh from last night.


----------



## FishingwithDave (Sep 13, 2021)

Kerowacked said:


> Yeah, probably 10 days ago, don’t want to spray again if i don’t have to. I’ll check her tonight with uv to see if i missed any. They’re fresh from last night.


Bastards! I’m basically in the same position as you regarding another application of BT. I’m around 15 days until harvesting and I really don’t want to spray again. But, I have mine encapsulated in shade cloth and so far, no worms or eggs found since covering. Good luck!


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## jbcCT (Sep 16, 2021)

Seems like every September I head out in the yard each morning with a knife and paper towel to pick eggs dropped the night before, off the top of my colas. These moths are relentless. While I don't need to do this, the BT will kill them, I'm a stickler for perfection. I can't help but to remove them.


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## jbcCT (Sep 16, 2021)

Kerowacked said:


> Yeah, probably 10 days ago, don’t want to spray again if i don’t have to. I’ll check her tonight with uv to see if i missed any. They’re fresh from last night.


I highly suggest you treat with BT at least once a week. As the over night temps drop morning dew and moisture will dilute the treatment. The thing with moths is they continue to lay eggs until they die in late fall. I'm finding eggs every day.

BT won't impact your flower at all. You want to spray on a dry morning right before the sun hits your plants. You want the product to dry. Never spray at night where it will leave the bud wet overnight.


----------



## Bmiranda (Sep 16, 2021)

jbcCT said:


> I highly suggest you treat with BT at least once a week. As the over night temps drop morning dew and moisture will dilute the treatment. The thing with moths is they continue to lay eggs until they die in late fall. I'm finding eggs every day.
> 
> BT won't impact your flower at all. You want to spray on a dry morning right before the sun hits your plants. You want the product to dry. Never spray at night where it will leave the bud wet overnight.


What is the measurment of bt spray to use, i heard something about using too much can turn pistils brown. What is a good amout per gallon to use? Thank you!


----------



## sirtalis (Sep 16, 2021)

Bmiranda said:


> What is the measurment of bt spray to use, i heard something about using too much can turn pistils brown. What is a good amout per gallon to use? Thank you!


1-2 tsp per gallon works for me. The only time pistils turned brown was when I tried to use a soap as a surfactant.

I think I've gone up to 4 tsp / gal with no problems.


----------



## Bmiranda (Sep 16, 2021)

sirtalis said:


> 1-2 tsp per gallon works for me. The only time pistils turned brown was when I tried to use a soap as a surfactant.
> 
> I think I've gone up to 4 tsp / gal with no problems.


Ok cool thank you, I just spotted a couple baby caterpullars on my girl, i have been spraying bt but ive only been using like 1-2tsp. But I wasnt sure if i was using enough. Its been raining last couple days but imma try and do spray early in am, i think rain is finally moving out. Thanks again!!


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## sirtalis (Sep 16, 2021)

Bmiranda said:


> Ok cool thank you, I just spotted a couple baby caterpullars on my girl, i have been spraying bt but ive only been using like 1-2tsp. But I wasnt sure if i was using enough. Its been raining last couple days but imma try and do spray early in am, i think rain is finally moving out. Thanks again!!


Yea the rain will wash off the bt, definitely spray after the rain has moved on. Until then just keep combing through and manually squash them.

Also, sometimes it takes a day or two for the bt to kill the caterpillars.


----------



## Bmiranda (Sep 16, 2021)

sirtalis said:


> Yea the rain will wash off the bt, definitely spray after the rain has moved on. Until then just keep combing through and manually squash them.
> 
> Also, sometimes it takes a day or two for the bt to kill the caterpillars.


Ok cool, i dont want to over apply but i don't want those caterpillars eating my beautiful girl! Thank you again!


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## jbcCT (Sep 16, 2021)

Bmiranda said:


> What is the measurment of bt spray to use, i heard something about using too much can turn pistils brown. What is a good amout per gallon to use? Thank you!


I put one cap full into a regular spray bottle.


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## jbcCT (Sep 16, 2021)

From today. Busted out Bohdi Roadkill Unicorn v2 from my seed library this year....

Gloomy morning in my neck of the woods.


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## Bmiranda (Sep 16, 2021)

jbcCT said:


> From today. Busted out Bohdi Roadkill Unicorn v2 from my seed library this year....
> 
> Gloomy morning in my neck of the woods.
> 
> View attachment 4988470


Looks good!!! 

Power punch. Colorado strain


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## sirtalis (Sep 16, 2021)

Looking good, here's my Bubba Kush x Old Family Purple cross. Going to be a long 4-5 weeks until harvest.


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## Bmiranda (Sep 16, 2021)

sirtalis said:


> Looking good, here's my Bubba Kush x Old Family Purple cross. Going to be a long 4-5 weeks until harvest.
> 
> View attachment 4988578


Wow beautiful!!


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## Sir Napsalot (Sep 16, 2021)

jbcCT said:


> I put one cap full into a regular spray bottle.


I use 1/4tsp in 8oz. which is plenty to spray my plant

The recommended usage is 1tsp./Gal.


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## jbcCT (Sep 19, 2021)

Stay off my tops ya filthy vermin.......


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## Kerowacked (Sep 20, 2021)

Hanging off my drying rack todaydart point for size reference


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## jbcCT (Sep 21, 2021)

Kerowacked said:


> Hanging off my drying rack todayView attachment 4991807dart point for size reference


Awful bro. Once they slink off your drying rack like spiderman, no telling where they came from. Contaminated. Needs to be thrown out.

When I harvest I check all the nodes for the tell tale signs: black grit poop. Using my small shears, peeking all around, node to stem. Ideally you want to catch this stuff before it hits the rack.

After a complete sweep and wet trim all the bud gets washed in 5 gallon buckets with a cup of peroxide to disinfect. I'm of the opinion outdoor bud needs to be washed just like fruit. Has no impact on the potency or trichomes.


----------



## Kerowacked (Sep 21, 2021)

jbcCT said:


> Awful bro. Once they slink off your drying rack like spiderman, no telling where they came from. Contaminated. Needs to be thrown out.
> 
> When I harvest I check all the nodes for the tell tale signs: black grit poop. Using my small shears, peeking all around, node to stem. Ideally you want to catch this stuff before it hits the rack.
> 
> After a complete sweep and wet trim all the bud gets washed in 5 gallon buckets with a cup of peroxide to disinfect. I'm of the opinion outdoor bud needs to be washed just like fruit. Has no impact on the potency or trichomes.


No loss, they just hatched. Btk would have killed them before getting into a bud, at least there haven’t been any inside a bud yet. Hard to spot but here they are hanging down.


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## sirtalis (Sep 21, 2021)

The worst feeling...


----------



## jbcCT (Sep 24, 2021)

sirtalis said:


> The worst feeling...
> 
> View attachment 4992376



I had one sneak by my BT shield too. Same deal. These things are fucking relentless. Spraying twice a week now until finish.


----------



## BurnDatShit35 (Sep 24, 2021)

I’m pretty sure these are caterpillar eggs but wouldn’t it be cool if they werent


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## jbcCT (Sep 25, 2021)

Bingo. The two most common types are the one in your pic, greenish and an orange version. Single egg snipers. In the morning they will be stuck all over your tops. I actually hand remove them. Knife and paper towel. 

There is another type of moth that will lay hundreds of eggs, coating the entire tip of a fan leaf.


----------



## jbcCT (Sep 25, 2021)

What I've come to realize in regards to people growing outdoors, some are taking down contaminated product without realizing it. Especially if details like this are overlooked. It's a special flower with nooks and crannies. Needs to be cleaned and disinfected like a piece of fruit. Inspected for quality with a fine tooth comb

Sorry for the gross worm pics peeps. On a lighter note I got a pack of SGG midnight frost this year, I think it's got DJ Short F13 in there. Supposed to turn black in flower. I dropped half the pack, 6 beans and only got one female but dam it smells so good.


----------



## Corporal_Biscuit (Sep 26, 2021)

Kerowacked said:


> Hanging off my drying rack todayView attachment 4991807dart point for size reference


H2O2 wash will solve that with a quickness.


----------



## sdboltdude (Sep 30, 2021)

Monterey BT says you can use it up to the last day of harvest completely organic certified


----------



## Kerowacked (Sep 30, 2021)

sdboltdude said:


> Monterey BT says you can use it up to the last day of harvest completely organic certified


You still want to wash it off before drying.


----------



## sdboltdude (Sep 30, 2021)

Kerowacked said:


> You still want to wash it off before drying.





Kerowacked said:


> You still want to wash it off before drying.


----------



## injinji (Sep 30, 2021)

I only saw one bud worm this season. But it was a bad rot year anyway. It rained everyday in July, almost everyday in August and a hell of a lot the first two weeks of September. Now that I have almost everything in the barn, we've had a couple weeks of sunshine. I say it every year, but I'm going to stop growing in the summer. I need to veg my plants until mid August, then they would have a chance to miss most of the rain while in flower.


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## jbcCT (Oct 2, 2021)

sdboltdude said:


> Monterey BT says you can use it up to the last day of harvest completely organic certified


I spray right until harvest.

Critical time right now. Last leg of the race. Too late in the game to let those little bastards take any. Spraying every two to three days. This is caterpillar season. Found two dying today. No damage. You want to keep them from getting inside the flower. 

Beautiful thing about this product is that it has 0 impact on the bud. Washing outdoor is a must. Couple home depot buckets, peroxide your good.


----------



## sdboltdude (Oct 3, 2021)

jbcCT said:


> I spray right until harvest.
> 
> Critical time right now. Last leg of the race. Too late in the game to let those little bastards take any. Spraying every two to three days. This is caterpillar season. Found two dying today. No damage. You want to keep them from getting inside the flower.
> 
> ...


Spraying heavy every 3 days
Not a lot of damage but find a little everyday


----------



## GTG (Oct 5, 2021)

Found my first caterpillar this morning. Noticed a brown sugar leaf on one bud. Pulled it apart and found the rot. Immediately cut the bud off the branch and dug through it and found a small green caterpillar. It's a purple strain so spotting the rotting sugar leaf wasn't as easy as the green plants but now I know exactly what to look for. 

Immediately mixed up some BT and saturated my whole grow and anything around it. Will be hitting heavy with BT until harvest now, every 4 days. Still have about 2 weeks of flower left, maybe more for 2 of my ladies. 

Here I have been reading all the caterpillar issues and thinking I skated the issue...nope. I dug through every flower and saw no other caterpillars or signs of rot but will be watching like a hawk.


----------



## sdboltdude (Oct 5, 2021)

GTG said:


> Found my first caterpillar this morning. Noticed a brown sugar leaf on one bud. Pulled it apart and found the rot. Immediately cut the bud off the branch and dug through it and found a small green caterpillar. It's a purple strain so spotting the rotting sugar leaf wasn't as easy as the green plants but now I know exactly what to look for.
> 
> Immediately mixed up some BT and saturated my whole grow and anything around it. Will be hitting heavy with BT until harvest now, every 4 days. Still have about 2 weeks of flower left, maybe more for 2 of my ladies.
> 
> Here I have been reading all the caterpillar issues and thinking I skated the issue...nope. I dug through every flower and saw no other caterpillars or signs of rot but will be watching like a hawk.


I spray Monterey BT every two days
Still find a little bit of Bud rot from the Worm but haven't found worm in days the worms I did find are brown and dead


----------



## GTG (Oct 5, 2021)

sdboltdude said:


> I spray Monterey BT every two days
> Still find a little bit of Bud rot from the Worm but haven't found worm in days the worms I did find are brown and dead


How strong do you mix? The label says 1 tbsp per gallon of water and to apply every 5 to 7 days. I was planning to keep mixing at the 1 tbsp to a gallon but apply every 4 days. I didn't want to hurt my ladies by going too strong or too frequent.


----------



## sdboltdude (Oct 5, 2021)

GTG said:


> How strong do you mix? The label says 1 tbsp per gallon of water and to apply every 5 to 7 days. I was planning to keep mixing at the 1 tbsp to a gallon but apply every 4 days. I didn't want to hurt my ladies by going too strong or too frequent.


I follow the bottle directions haven't had a problem yet still spray every two days


----------



## Rastadogcdx (Oct 7, 2021)

I found this today. An Asian hornet hugging a caterpillar on my plant.


----------



## jbcCT (Oct 7, 2021)

Rastadogcdx said:


> I found this today. An Asian hornet hugging a caterpillar on my plant. View attachment 5004913


Wow. Excellent shot. That's outstanding.


----------



## jbcCT (Oct 7, 2021)

GTG said:


> How strong do you mix? The label says 1 tbsp per gallon of water and to apply every 5 to 7 days. I was planning to keep mixing at the 1 tbsp to a gallon but apply every 4 days. I didn't want to hurt my ladies by going too strong or too frequent.


Just when you think you've sprayed enough......you haven't, spray some more. 

The great thing about BT is that it does ZERO damage to your flower. 

I'm treating every two/ three days right now as well.


----------



## sdboltdude (Oct 7, 2021)

Rastadogcdx said:


> I found this today. An Asian hornet hugging a caterpillar on my





Rastadogcdx said:


> I found this today. An Asian hornet hugging a caterpillar on my plant. View attachment 5004913


If you ever decide to rent out your hornet let me know he's doing a great job


----------



## GTG (Oct 8, 2021)

jbcCT said:


> Just when you think you've sprayed enough......you haven't, spray some more.
> 
> The great thing about BT is that it does ZERO damage to your flower.
> 
> I'm treating every two/ three days right now as well.


I've gone to spraying every two days. 1 plant has about a week or two before harvest and the others have a little longer. My next battle will be frost.


----------



## jbcCT (Oct 8, 2021)

Bodhi shit holds up so well in the fall. No mold, nothing. Going to need the whole month of October here.


----------



## Sir Napsalot (Oct 8, 2021)

I found 2 caterpillars total this year- they were maybe the biggest caterpillars I've had, but didn't seem to have caused any damage


----------



## Krit (Oct 13, 2021)

Anyone know if cold temps affects bud worms?


----------



## jbcCT (Oct 15, 2021)

Krit said:


> Anyone know if cold temps affects bud worms?


Not really. They can handle overnight temps of low 50 degrees. They usually feed at dawn or dusk.


----------



## jbcCT (Oct 15, 2021)

How many of you wash your outdoor bud? I remember when I first saw a video of somebody doing that I thought they were nuts. 

I started taking down my plants this week and was washing a batch up in 5 gall home depot bucket, with water, cup of peroxide. You can see all the dust, small flies and other debris floating on the top when your done. You'll also see dots of an oily substance. The peroxide strips off any unseen mold or mildew. I rinse them with a misting wand attached to my garden hose. High tech ops here boys. 

Plus, you want to wash off the BT as well. Does anyone use anything besides peroxide? Wash, don't wash?


----------



## Dark_Hatchling (Oct 16, 2021)

jbcCT said:


> Plus, you want to wash off the BT as well. Does anyone use anything besides peroxide? Wash, don't wash?


I wash. This year I was recommended to use potassium bicarbonate in the first bucket, peroxide in the second and then plain water for the 3rd. So far good. I'll most likely be sticking with it next year.


----------



## injinji (Oct 17, 2021)

jbcCT said:


> How many of you wash your outdoor bud? I remember when I first saw a video of somebody doing that I thought they were nuts.
> 
> I started taking down my plants this week and was washing a batch up in 5 gall home depot bucket, with water, cup of peroxide. You can see all the dust, small flies and other debris floating on the top when your done. You'll also see dots of an oily substance. The peroxide strips off any unseen mold or mildew. I rinse them with a misting wand attached to my garden hose. High tech ops here boys.
> 
> Plus, you want to wash off the BT as well. Does anyone use anything besides peroxide? Wash, don't wash?


I wash all of mine. If there is rot on the plant, I use more H2O2, otherwise the cup per five gallon bucket sounds about right.


----------



## jbcCT (Oct 30, 2021)

injinji said:


> I wash all of mine. If there is rot on the plant, I use more H2O2, otherwise the cup per five gallon bucket sounds about right.


I only grow outdoor every summer. Every harvest I'm reminded how important it is to wash the flower. I do a good wet trim before the wash. You have to go through it with a fine tooth comb. Literally checking the inside of every bud. Some damage can be hidden. Tiny flies stuck on the bud, etc. Nothing hits the rack contaminated. 

One more plant to go the SGG midnight frost.....


----------



## jbcCT (Oct 30, 2021)

Dark_Hatchling said:


> I wash. This year I was recommended to use potassium bicarbonate in the first bucket, peroxide in the second and then plain water for the 3rd. So far good. I'll most likely be sticking with it next year.


I like it. Sterilize the fuck out of it. The cleaner the better.


----------



## potroastV2 (Oct 30, 2021)

Dark_Hatchling said:


> I wash. This year I was recommended to use potassium bicarbonate in the first bucket, peroxide in the second and then plain water for the 3rd. So far good. I'll most likely be sticking with it next year.


Someone recommended that you dunk your buds in Potassium Bicarb? I can't imagine why that would help. I've sprayed with that, but it does not get rid of fungus, it only makes the leaf surface unlivable for fungus by raising the pH of the surface. Maybe I'm missing something, I don't see how dunking in it would help anything.

Dunking in Peroxide does kill the fungus, so I agree with that.


----------



## jbcCT (Oct 30, 2021)

Good question. Not sure on the potassium, I imagine it sterilizes and disinfects in some manner. Need to do my homework on that one. 

Due to the weather in my neck of the woods, going late into fall, mold was always a concern. It too is a formidable foe.

I started growing outdoors in 5 gallon home depot buckets. Not a suitable container by any means and I would get hit with PM on certain strains, even lose whole plants.(anything bodhi is as close to bulletproof as you'll get)

A few years back I made the switch to fabric pots and have had no PM issues since I made that change. 

If you look in the plant problems forum a lot of people having issues are using plastic pots and buckets (aside from killing their plants with water and nutrients). It's doable but they seem to breed mold and create other foliar issues.


----------



## outside Dixie (Dec 18, 2021)

I use Nemototes for all bug ..Put out when time They make them for any bug...Our problem is Termites and The same stuff ya;ll have .. But is it great for outdoors...


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## injinji (Dec 18, 2021)

outside Dixie said:


> I use Nemototes for all bug ..Put out when time They make them for any bug...Our problem is Termites and The same stuff ya;ll have .. But is it great for outdoors...


I lose a few to termites every year. The kick in the balls is it almost always happens when they are flowering.


----------



## toomp (Dec 27, 2021)

BudHuntersGuild said:


> PVC trellis frame wrapped in mosquito netting to stop the moths from laying eggs. BT and tweezers to take care of the current caterpillars


this looks like it keeps small worms out too. How did it do?


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## Swiller (Jan 21, 2022)

I never “wash” my outdoor medicine. Never use chemicals either. Just trim it very well and look for any insects or damage and cut it out. Then again, I am not growing to impress a buyer, just never to become one.


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## dakilla187 (Feb 27, 2022)

Bloody Bastards are back.....Its an army of them all spawned in a matter of days.........

I bag my plants in the evening when it gets rlly bad, its just a whole bunch of extra work cats bring


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## jbcCT (Feb 27, 2022)

dakilla187 said:


> Bloody Bastards are back.....Its an army of them all spawned in a matter of days.........
> 
> I bag my plants in the evening when it gets rlly bad, its just a whole bunch of extra work cats bring
> 
> View attachment 5093090


Hope ya got the secret sauce on hand to spray those suckers down.

If you don't mind me asking where in the world are you growing outdoors this time of yr.

Spring is 30 days away, can't wait......

I still am smoking last summers grow. Haven't run out yet.


----------



## Kerowacked (Feb 27, 2022)

I still am smoking last summers grow. Haven't run out yet.
[/QUOTE]
Hear that, cure is awesome at 4 months


----------



## potpimp (Feb 27, 2022)

dakilla187 said:


> Bloody Bastards are back.....Its an army of them all spawned in a matter of days.........
> 
> I bag my plants in the evening when it gets rlly bad, its just a whole bunch of extra work cats bring
> 
> View attachment 5093090


I had to do that last year. Of course the little shits go for the best colas. I'm still smoking my grow from last year. I'm about to germ 3 Platinum OG from Mendocino Farms.


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## MidWickedWest (Mar 10, 2022)

Damn...Its been bud worm season since 2008...THOSE FUCKERS ARE WINNING!. Buddy of mine just was telling me about some kind of uv light or something that kills moths.


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## Aapoo (Mar 19, 2022)

dakilla187 said:


> Bloody Bastards are back.....Its an army of them all spawned in a matter of days.........
> 
> I bag my plants in the evening when it gets rlly bad, its just a whole bunch of extra work cats bring
> 
> View attachment 5093090


Bugger. Devil worms


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## Sir Napsalot (Mar 25, 2022)

MidWickedWest said:


> Damn...Its been bud worm season since 2008...THOSE FUCKERS ARE WINNING!. Buddy of mine just was telling me about some kind of uv light or something that kills moths.


Electric bug-zappers use flourescent lights to attract the moths, could that be what your friend was thinking of?


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## Skopes120 (Apr 3, 2022)

can i utilize diatomaceous earth


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## GanjaMan420$ (Apr 12, 2022)

Try using some boiled oranges and orange peeles, they can turn into a great little natural pesticide that won’t cause harm to you or the plants, also dude wow the stigmas on your plant are gorgeous


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## GanjaMan420$ (Apr 12, 2022)

Kludge said:


> Use neem oil. It's safe for fruiting plants which means it won't kill you if you spray it on the buds.


Have you ever heard of boiling oranges and orange peeles instead of using neem


----------



## GanjaMan420$ (Apr 12, 2022)




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## PioneerValleyOG (May 2, 2022)

Three words: Yellow Sticky Pads.


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## Sir Napsalot (May 7, 2022)

PioneerValleyOG said:


> Three words: Yellow Sticky Pads.


Three words: useless against caterpillars


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## DCcan (May 12, 2022)

PioneerValleyOG said:


> Three words: Yellow Sticky Pads.


Keep the yellow sticky pads for indoor use, don't see the point of even using them outside.
Those kill hundreds of the wrong bugs, lure in parasitic wasps that prey on the caterpillars, as well as other beneficial bugs.


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## jbcCT (May 12, 2022)

It's that time again. Dropping my seeds this weekend. Been a cold spring in the NE. Temps just moved above 70 for the first time this week. 

Getcha fresh bottle of BT boys we got caterpillars to kill.


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## Canadian Joe (May 12, 2022)

Is that an autoflower? Or did you plant it early to get it to flower this time of year? I saw a few last year and pulled them out by had. Those folks will shit all over your buds ~ laying 3 finger deuces droppin them like their hot


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## jbcCT (May 12, 2022)

potpimp said:


> I had to do that last year. Of course the little shits go for the best colas. I'm still smoking my grow from last year. I'm about to germ 3 Platinum OG from Mendocino Farms.


They always try and hit the best tops. Thank goodness for the magic of BT.


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## Sir Napsalot (May 12, 2022)

DCcan said:


> Keep the yellow sticky pads for indoor use, don't see the point of even using them outside.


They're useful for knowing what kinds of bugs are about


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## DCcan (May 13, 2022)

Sir Napsalot said:


> They're useful for knowing what kinds of bugs are about


White ones are generally used for population monitoring outside, don't tend to draw in all the pollen collectors that yellow does.
Whatever works for you locally, I guess.


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## Sir Napsalot (May 13, 2022)

DCcan said:


> White ones are generally used for population monitoring outside, don't tend to draw in all the pollen collectors that yellow does.
> Whatever works for you locally, I guess.


I can't remember ever getting any pollen collectors- mostly a few gnats of little concern

The only thing I've ever used for pests is BT


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## DCcan (May 14, 2022)

Sir Napsalot said:


> I can't remember ever getting any pollen collectors- mostly a few gnats of little concern
> 
> The only thing I've ever used for pests is BT


My yellow ones filled with hover flies and hundreds of small parasitic wasps, and a few different types of gnats. Not really helpful, counter productive for me.
The white ones got a wider assortment of evil beetles and other leaf munchers, blue ones seemed to lure a couple odd bugs and more hover flies.

Point is,(like you said ) they are not effective on controlling moths, caterpillars and preventing budrot. Bt-k is stll one of the better treatments, just got to keep up with it when it gets washed off, and use it in conjunction with other IPM measures.

Link below to a fairly new budrot study that came out, take a look, as well as data for biological control agents.
The temp/wetness charts for propagation were informative, temps above 30c put spore formation on hold.

 Canadian Journal of Plant Pathology -bud rot pathogens infecting cannabis

Eww, look at the untreated control buds vs treated buds, and the 3 main types of pathogen in second figure




....Fig.6





Fig.11 

*Figure 11 of 15*
Fig. 11 (Colour online) Effect of biocontrol treatments on development of _Botrytis cinerea_ on detached buds of cannabis after 7 days. Treatments were applied 48 h prior to inoculation with the pathogen. *a*, Control buds showing extensive mycelial development. *b*, Buds treated with _Trichoderma asperellum_. *c*, Buds treated with _Bacillus amyloliquefaciens_. *d*, Buds treated with _Gliocladium catenulatum_. *e*, Sporulation of _G. catenulatum_ on treated buds after 10 days. *f, g*, Recovery of colonies of _G. catenulatum_ from a streaked sample or dilution plating, respectively, originating from treated buds. *h*, Disease severity ratings made 7 days after inoculation with _B. cinerea_ (control) or following pre-treatment 48 hr before pathogen inoculation with various biocontrol agents (Prestop, Asperello, Stargus). Data are the means from four experiments, each with four–six buds. Letters above bars denote significant differences using ANOVA followed by Fisher’s LSD test at P < 0.01


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## DCcan (May 14, 2022)

Another way to use Bt-k is a whole wheat flour paste, mixed with veg oil and Bt.
You can spread the paste or leave it in a bait ball for the bugs, they prefer the wheat paste over your plants.


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## PioneerValleyOG (May 17, 2022)

DCcan said:


> Keep the yellow sticky pads for indoor use, don't see the point of even using them outside.
> Those kill hundreds of the wrong bugs, lure in parasitic wasps that prey on the caterpillars, as well as other beneficial bugs.


Hmmmm. Haven't seemed to have that issue.


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## PioneerValleyOG (May 17, 2022)

Sir Napsalot said:


> I can't remember ever getting any pollen collectors- mostly a few gnats of little concern
> 
> The only thing I've ever used for pests is BT


Ummmm, I'll mention it again.... the ONLY thing BT is good for are caterpillars and worms. Does zero for bugs and pests. Just saying. Many people aren't aware of this.


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## Jafo232 (Jun 6, 2022)

Can you use neem oil and BT in the same mixture?


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## DCcan (Jun 7, 2022)

Jafo232 said:


> Can you use neem oil and BT in the same mixture?


Sure, better off encapsulating it in oil to keep it from breaking down quickly from sunlight.
Bt also works well with pyrethrins, you can alternate insecticides when applying.









Organic Insecticide Rotations and Tank-mixes for Vegetable Crops - Alabama Cooperative Extension System


Implement these organic prevention and control strategies to reduce pest populations in your vegetable crops.




www.aces.edu


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## Sir Napsalot (Jun 20, 2022)

Haven't seen many moths yet this year- it's been pretty wet



but they're coming


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## DancesWithWeeds (Jun 22, 2022)

PioneerValleyOG said:


> Three words: Yellow Sticky Pads.


Three words: Got That Right.


This is the second set of sticky this season and it's time to replace them.
They are especially effective on leaf hoppers. They are drawn to the yellow. There are a bunch of moths stuck to them now. All kinds of bugs.


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## DancesWithWeeds (Jun 22, 2022)

Skopes120 said:


> can i utilize diatomaceous earth


I use DE all the time. I do overhead watering until they start to flower. It keeps the plants a lot cleaner. Every time I water I spray soapy water for acids and dust with DE for most other bugs. BT once a week.


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## jbcCT (Jun 24, 2022)

Just over a month into the season and I did an inspection this afternoon. On the lowest leaves some were filled with eggs. I snipped them off and others I just wiped them off with a paper towel. If I didn't lift the leaf up I would not have noticed. They tend to stick the eggs under the leaf to shield them from the sun. 

When you spray BT make sure to bend a knee and angle up to coat the underside of leaf matter. I hit the stems and top of leaves as well. It's important to coat the whole plant. 

For those that do hatch it's impossible for them to move up the plant. The first bite they take is poison. Will simply fall off or be eaten by flies or spiders.


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## jbcCT (Jun 24, 2022)

DancesWithWeeds said:


> I use DE all the time. I do overhead watering until they start to flower. It keeps the plants a lot cleaner. Every time I water I spray soapy water for acids and dust with DE for most other bugs. BT once a week.


So you spray the plants with soapy water? What does this prevent? I'm curious. Thanks in advance.


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## DancesWithWeeds (Jun 24, 2022)

jbcCT said:


> So you spray the plants with soapy water? What does this prevent? I'm curious. Thanks in advance.


Afids. The soapy water suffocates them. It's supposed to do the plants some good, too, but I don't know what.
It's not that much soap a d it comes off it it gets warer on it. The DE washes off like dust.

The leaf hoppers are starting show. I've seen them on the leafs but they don't seem to be damaging them. There are quite a few of them on the sticky pads. I think it's the DE that's keeping them from sucking juice.


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## jbcCT (Jun 24, 2022)

DancesWithWeeds said:


> Afids. The soapy water suffocates them. It's supposed to do the plants some good, too, but I don't know what.
> It's not that much soap a d it comes off it it gets warer on it. The DE washes off like dust.
> 
> The leaf hoppers are starting show. I've seen them on the leafs but they don't seem to be damaging them. There are quite a few of them on the sticky pads. I think it's the DE that's keeping them from sucking juice.


Yeah....the outdoor battle. Always seems to be something. I can't imagine what it's like to farm cannabis outdoors at scale, commercially. They must spray heavy to keep everything off them. Once they flower I don't like to let my plants get hit with rain.


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## DancesWithWeeds (Jun 24, 2022)

jbcCT said:


> Yeah....the outdoor battle.


What part of the State are you in? I'm in ne Tulsa Co. Almost as far NE as you can git.


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## PioneerValleyOG (Jun 30, 2022)

jbcCT said:


> Just over a month into the season and I did an inspection this afternoon. On the lowest leaves some were filled with eggs. I snipped them off and others I just wiped them off with a paper towel. If I didn't lift the leaf up I would not have noticed. They tend to stick the eggs under the leaf to shield them from the sun.
> 
> When you spray BT make sure to bend a knee and angle up to coat the underside of leaf matter. I hit the stems and top of leaves as well. It's important to coat the whole plant.
> 
> ...


Be aware that BT is only effective for worms/caterpillar types. Not for insects. People push BT as be all end all, not realizing it's only for paterkillers n worms.


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## PioneerValleyOG (Jun 30, 2022)

jbcCT said:


> Yeah....the outdoor battle. Always seems to be something. I can't imagine what it's like to farm cannabis outdoors at scale, commercially. They must spray heavy to keep everything off them. Once they flower I don't like to let my plants get hit with rain.


Zerotol.


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## DancesWithWeeds (Jun 30, 2022)

PioneerValleyOG said:


> Zerotol.


This is what it's like growing outdoors commercially in Oklahoma. One of the "little old ladies " that has her garden here and grows with us was trimming for the growers I leased to and after a couple hours she left because of the bugs. She said said between the bugs and bud rot she couldn't handle it. 

I don't know how bad the bugs are for everyone else but I've had very little damage this year. I think it's dusting with DE that's doing the job. I've never dusted with it until this year and that's all I've been using. The sticky traps are the best. They are SOOO full of bugs it's time to change them. Almost no place for bugs to land on them.


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## DancesWithWeeds (Jun 30, 2022)

Has anyone ever dusted with DE? There are some things I would like to know about it if anyone has them, if not try guessing at what might happen. This _a food grade _and washes off with water, but what about the sticky buds.


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## PioneerValleyOG (Jul 1, 2022)

DancesWithWeeds said:


> This is what it's like growing outdoors commercially in Oklahoma. One of the "little old ladies " that has her garden here and grows with us was trimming for the growers I leased to and after a couple hours she left because of the bugs. She said said between the bugs and bud rot she couldn't handle it.
> 
> I don't know how bad the bugs are for everyone else but I've had very little damage this year. I think it's dusting with DE that's doing the job. I've never dusted with it until this year and that's all I've been using. The sticky traps are the best. They are SOOO full of bugs it's time to change them. Almost no place for bugs to land on them.


I'm surprised you don't wash your flower with bugs and Rot and all. Doesn't cost much, is easy to do, and finished product is cleaner, and you'll be amazed at the crap that comes out in the water. 
Perhaps do a small test run, and you'll be able to decide whether or not it's for you.


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## DancesWithWeeds (Jul 1, 2022)

PioneerValleyOG said:


> I'm surprised you don't wash your flower with bugs and Rot and all. Doesn't cost much, is easy to do, and finished product is cleaner, and you'll be amazed at the crap that comes out in the water.
> Perhaps do a small test run, and you'll be able to decide whether or not it's for you.


Thanks, but there are almost NO bugs. One thing in particular is I have watched leaf hoppers land on a leaf and stand on there noses to suck juice. No holes developed. The main damage is small grasshopper notches on a few leafs. It's like they take a couple bites and leave. It is time to stop using DE for dusting. They are all starting to flower and I don't think it would do bud.

In Oklahoma if you don't have bugs you ain't growing.


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## Kerowacked (Jul 1, 2022)

DancesWithWeeds said:


> Thanks, but there are almost NO bugs. One thing in particular is I have watched leaf hoppers land on a leaf and stand on there noses to suck juice. No holes developed. The main damage is small grasshopper notches on a few leafs. It's like they take a couple bites and leave. It is time to stop using DE for dusting. They are all starting to flower and I don't think it would do bud.
> 
> In Oklahoma if you don't have bugs you ain't growing.


Yeah, leafhoppers are vectors of disease, they can transfer pathogens from an infected plant to a healthy plant, but they don’t eat leaves as such. Budwashing outdoor plants is a necessity. Bugs, pollen, pollutants, mold spores, small squirrels, you wash out all kinds of stuff, leaves an oil slick.


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## DancesWithWeeds (Jul 1, 2022)

Kerowacked said:


> Yeah, leafhoppers are vectors of disease, they can transfer pathogens from an infected plant to a healthy plant, but they don’t eat leaves as such. Budwashing outdoor plants is a necessity. Bugs, pollen, pollutants, mold spores, small squirrels, you wash out all kinds of stuff, leaves an oil slick.


Last year they were one things that damaged the crop of some commercial growers here. They put some commercial insecticides out that were supposed to be OK. That's when I started using sticky traps. The things seem to be attracted to yellow. 

I checked the traps this morning and there are only a few leaf hoppers on the newer traps, mostly flys. The older ones are loaded filters with a LOT of leaf hoppers.


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## PioneerValleyOG (Jul 1, 2022)

DancesWithWeeds said:


> Thanks, but there are almost NO bugs. One thing in particular is I have watched leaf hoppers land on a leaf and stand on there noses to suck juice. No holes developed. The main damage is small grasshopper notches on a few leafs. It's like they take a couple bites and leave. It is time to stop using DE for dusting. They are all starting to flower and I don't think it would do bud.
> 
> In Oklahoma if you don't have bugs you ain't growing.


So, I'm confused. You said your trimmer bailed because she was freaked out by all the bugs. Now there are no bugs? Is this from introduction of sticky traps?


----------



## wiseguy187 (Jul 1, 2022)

Just caught my first one of the season last week. I sprayed with BT and pyrethrum (and neem) probably a month ago, but I should have kept it up instead of waiting to find new damage. I gently removed this fella, then enthusiastically smashed it with a shovel.


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## jbcCT (Jul 2, 2022)

PioneerValleyOG said:


> Be aware that BT is only effective for worms/caterpillar types. Not for insects. People push BT as be all end all, not realizing it's only for paterkillers n worms.



Yeah no doubt. To be honest the only pest that's ever caused a problem for me is caterpillars. 

I think I've mentioned this before but without BT I would not even be able to grow outdoors.


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## DancesWithWeeds (Jul 2, 2022)

jbcCT said:


> Yeah no doubt. To be honest the only pest that's ever caused a problem for me is caterpillars.
> 
> I think I've mentioned this before but without BT I would not even be able to grow outdoors.


BT's great. I had intended to spray once a week but haven't had to yet. I've killed 2 this year but last year they were thick.

Try this on for size. A volunteer came up in my compost pile and it's doing better than the rest. No feeding except for the compost, no watering, and no bug control. How is it that there are almost no damage. 

One good thing, this is growing along a fence were we have goats and donkeys and I found out they don't like it.


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## jbcCT (Jul 2, 2022)

wiseguy187 said:


> Just caught my first one of the season last week. I sprayed with BT and pyrethrum (and neem) probably a month ago, but I should have kept it up instead of waiting to find new damage. I gently removed this fella, then enthusiastically smashed it with a shovel.
> 
> View attachment 5157519


Your not flowering yet so you should be good to go. I start spraying pre-flower twice a week. Up that spraying game kill them suckers.


----------



## jbcCT (Jul 2, 2022)

DancesWithWeeds said:


> BT's great. I had intended to spray once a week but haven't had to yet. I've killed 2 this year but last year they were thick.
> 
> Try this on for size. A volunteer came up in my compost pile and it's doing better than the rest. No feeding except for the compost, no watering, and no bug control. How is it that there are almost no damage.
> 
> One good thing, this is growing along a fence were we have goats and donkeys and I found out they don't like it.



Haven't had to yet? You never want to wait until you see them show up. I would start the spraying twice a week.


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## jbcCT (Jul 2, 2022)

So this year I'm growing auto's outside with my reg plants. I'm already hooked. I usually don't harvest my regs till October so it will be nice to have an early and late harvest.

This is first attempt at autos. I have two diff Mephisto strains.

Then I'm doing Bodhi Neroli 91, AK Bean Brains Blueberry / Freezeland and my freebie this year Kingdom Genetics Blue Thai........

I'll start throwing up some pics soon.


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## DancesWithWeeds (Jul 2, 2022)

jbcCT said:


> Haven't had to yet? You never want to wait until you see them show up. I would start the spraying twice a week.


You're right.


----------



## DancesWithWeeds (Jul 2, 2022)

jbcCT said:


> So this year I'm growing auto's outside with my reg plants. I'm already hooked. I usually don't harvest my regs till October so it will be nice to have an early and late harvest.
> 
> This is first attempt at autos. I have two diff Mephisto strains.
> 
> ...


I have seeds coming from Seedsman. Never bought there before but they have Diet Durban THCV:THC. More meds. We just found two of our family have diabetes. THCV is supposed to help.

I'm starting to feel like I've come out of retirement and have a fulltime job just keeping the family healthy. 

Seedsman is sending some freebies. They are autos but don't know what kind. I've never grown autos.


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## jbcCT (Jul 7, 2022)

DancesWithWeeds said:


> I have seeds coming from Seedsman. Never bought there before but they have Diet Durban THCV:THC. More meds. We just found two of our family have diabetes. THCV is supposed to help.
> 
> I'm starting to feel like I've come out of retirement and have a fulltime job just keeping the family healthy.
> 
> Seedsman is sending some freebies. They are autos but don't know what kind. I've never grown autos.


I screwed two of them up in that I didn't top them in time so I held off. They just sorta got away from me. So they will be small just a stick of bud. However I did top & crop the other two and they look amazing. 

I have not seen any single assassins laying eggs yet at all. I'm anal like that so if I see them I pick em off. Everything is really clean so far. I've sprayed three times in the last week and a half. I'll do a nice BT misting this weekend. 

What's the saying; an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Something like that.


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## DancesWithWeeds (Jul 7, 2022)

jbcCT said:


> I screwed two of them up in that I didn't top them in time so I held off. They just sorta got away from me. So they will be small just a stick of bud. However I did top & crop the other two and they look amazing.
> 
> I have not seen any single assassins laying eggs yet at all. I'm anal like that so if I see them I pick em off. Everything is really clean so far. I've sprayed three times in the last week and a half. I'll do a nice BT misting this weekend.
> 
> What's the saying; an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Something like that.


Hay, man, let's update that."An once of prevention is worth a *Pound of Pot". *Literally.


----------



## Sir Napsalot (Jul 9, 2022)

Well, the white "cabbage moths" are out in force here now, but I'm not anywhere close to flowering


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## PioneerValleyOG (Jul 9, 2022)

jbcCT said:


> So this year I'm growing auto's outside with my reg plants. I'm already hooked. I usually don't harvest my regs till October so it will be nice to have an early and late harvest.
> 
> This is first attempt at autos. I have two diff Mephisto strains.
> 
> ...


I did some autos too. They didn't grow very big and I wasn't really impressed.


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## jbcCT (Jul 17, 2022)

PioneerValleyOG said:


> I did some autos too. They didn't grow very big and I wasn't really impressed.


Autos are perfect for a short summer season. First time doing it and and next year the majority of my plants will be autos. I had two that were no bigger than 16 inches but the other two I topped early enough and they look great. I definitely need to do my research on how to get them bigger. 



Clean as hell too. No caterpillar damage at all. 

One of my Bohdi neroli 91's.......three females so far. I dropped 9 reg seeds this year and 8 are female. Talk about deviation from the mean. I have a Kingdom Genetics free bee this year in my order, Blue Thai, two females. Monster indicas. I'll throw up some photos once I'm in full flower. I love the idea of a dual season harvest with the autos. Looks like end of August on those and my regs late, late October.


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## jbcCT (Jul 17, 2022)

Sir Napsalot said:


> Well, the white "cabbage moths" are out in force here now, but I'm not anywhere close to flowering


My buddy down the street grew for the first time outdoors last year and he got hit pre-flower, woke up one morning and they were everywhere, just chomping foliage. I've never really had them attack until the buds appear. However it's likely due to the fact my plants are well coated in BT before they lay any eggs.

That one species lays an entire clutch on the tip of the leaf. Couple hundo eggs. I caught one last year and put some pics up. It pays dividends to do an inspection couple times a week.


----------



## Sir Napsalot (Jul 17, 2022)

jbcCT said:


> My buddy down the street grew for the first time outdoors last year and he got hit pre-flower, woke up one morning and they were everywhere, just chomping foliage. I've never really had them attack until the buds appear. However it's likely due to the fact my plants are well coated in BT before they lay any eggs.
> 
> That one species lays an entire clutch on the tip of the leaf. Couple hundo eggs. I caught one last year and put some pics up. It pays dividends to do an inspection couple times a week.


----------



## PioneerValleyOG (Jul 17, 2022)

jbcCT said:


> Autos are perfect for a short summer season. First time doing it and and next year the majority of my plants will be autos. I had two that were no bigger than 16 inches but the other two I topped early enough and they look great. I definitely need to do my research on how to get them bigger.
> 
> View attachment 5165113View attachment 5165114
> 
> ...


Yes, I bitched about the autos and not being impressed, height wise, but they do finish early nicely, giving me more room for late starters. I am happy with the way they came out.


----------



## PioneerValleyOG (Jul 17, 2022)

jbcCT said:


> Autos are perfect for a short summer season. First time doing it and and next year the majority of my plants will be autos. I had two that were no bigger than 16 inches but the other two I topped early enough and they look great. I definitely need to do my research on how to get them bigger.
> 
> View attachment 5165113View attachment 5165114
> 
> ...


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## jbcCT (Jul 27, 2022)

PioneerValleyOG said:


> Yes, I bitched about the autos and not being impressed, height wise, but they do finish early nicely, giving me more room for late starters. I am happy with the way they came out.


I'm harvesting Friday. I don't why I didn't grow autos sooner. Soooooo easy......soooooo quick!

From what I can determine there is zero caterpillar damage. I found one tiny dead dried up worm on the end of a leaf tip this morning, that's it. His first bite was his last and never got to make a home inside by bud.

Another aspect that I face growing regs outdoors is mold. I don't harvest regs until middle / end of October. With the cooler temps mold popping up is always a concern. You don't have that worry with the autos. They mature well before the cool temps hit.


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## jbcCT (Jul 27, 2022)

Looks great. You growing in plastic pails & containers? 

I started my outdoor endeavors in 5 gallon plastic buckets. One fall when I was cleaning out my buckets I noticed the color from the plastic was stuck on the dead soil / root ball. From the sun beating on it all summer. I switched to fabric / smart pots the following season.


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## jbcCT (Jul 27, 2022)

Sir Napsalot said:


> View attachment 5165126



This is the last thing you want to go unnoticed. One snipped off the tip out on some concrete and they hatched within an hour. Almost like they could sense the dead plant matter.

A good coating of BT would ensure they don't go far. Untreated, something like that could destroy an entire plant.


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## Krit (Aug 12, 2022)

Found my first budworm of the season. Took a closer look and found about 10 eggs on the plant also.
Going to give them a good dousing of BT tomorrow. The season has begun, stay on the lookout RIU.
Didn't get a pic of the little guy, but here's the bud he was on.


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## radicaldank42 (Aug 20, 2022)

actually for those in short grow seasons look up kugel kulture(prolly slyaed)!! you can push a little bit longer naturally with that! also what are you guys spraying by chance? i use pyrethrins(when needed) till the flowering stretch is done. i also release a few predator bugs in the springs to help knock out the problem.


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## GTG (Aug 20, 2022)

I spray BT 2x per week as soon as they form flowers. I lost a bunch to worms last season, taking no chances this season.


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## DCcan (Aug 21, 2022)

Something to note for liquid BT products, liquid formulations break down in about a year, powders will keep their potentcy for 3-4 years.
It's also most effective at 1st and 2nd instar feedings, so when they are smaller. Don't wait till you see them in other words.
Re apply after rain and at least weekly, light breaks down the proteins.

Another thing you can do is alternate or mix BT products, much greater mortality rate than a single type since they have different proteins.
Several other promising new or mixed varieties of BT are coming down the pipe. Mostly to slow the growth of resistance that's beginning to show up for BT-k.
I have a preponderence of cabbage lopers, armyworms, and diamondback moths, so BT-a has been more effective at control.

*Table 1.* Cry toxin profile of _Bacillus thuringiensis_ spray products (upper table) and susceptibility of Lepidoptera species to those Cry toxins (lower table).


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## See green (Aug 24, 2022)

Guys this is the culprit.


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## radicaldank42 (Aug 26, 2022)

GTG said:


> I spray BT 2x per week as soon as they form flowers. I lost a bunch to worms last season, taking no chances this season.


have you tried pyrethrins?


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## radicaldank42 (Aug 26, 2022)

See green said:


> Guys this is the culprit. View attachment 5186910


that would be th parent laying eggs. also another thing to introduce are predator bugs. bugs stay in a general vicinity and dont venture like you think.


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## DCcan (Aug 27, 2022)

Pictures of 600+ most common species.





__





Butterflies and Moths


Index of the various Butterfly and Moth insect species found across North America.



www.insectidentification.org


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## radicaldank42 (Aug 27, 2022)

What about using sodium percarbonate? Make it a little stronger and wear gloves and spray at dusk but the super strong h2o2 will kill em or Evict them then die plus destroy the webs and eggs. And clean the leafs and plant.


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## Michigan grower1984 (Aug 27, 2022)

I'm far north in Michigan and I've never had a problem with them one day is extremely hot the next day it's cold but if I ever run into that problem I'm interested to figure out how people get rid of them


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## radicaldank42 (Aug 27, 2022)

Michigan grower1984 said:


> I'm far north in Michigan and I've never had a problem with them one day is extremely hot the next day it's cold but if I ever run into that problem I'm interested to figure out how people get rid of them


In on the far north as well and once in a while I found some but I always tried to ill them asap


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## radicaldank42 (Aug 27, 2022)

Michigan grower1984 said:


> I'm far north in Michigan and I've never had a problem with them one day is extremely hot the next day it's cold but if I ever run into that problem I'm interested to figure out how people get rid of them


Do you usually. Kugel culture at all. For the grow you have? You should look up deep watering.


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## PioneerValleyOG (Aug 28, 2022)

Found this little bastard today. Too late for BT spray? Pretty advanced buds.


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## burnpile (Aug 31, 2022)

After spraying with bt is it common to have alot of the pistols turn brown? sprayed at sundown.


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## PioneerValleyOG (Aug 31, 2022)

Sprayed yesterday as well. Ha ent checked for brown pistils yet, but will look asap. I hope not. Surprised there's not more responses to this thread since we are smack in wormpillar season. 
Q: I have a 5 gal pressure pump, in which I used 1 gal of bt mix=4t. Bt. I thought the wand was funky as it sprayed in two opposite directions. Then I realized that the wand was designed to reach into the plant and spray right and left. It was my first spray. I don't wanna say I soaked them, but I did be sure they had ample coverage.


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## Jeffislovinlife (Aug 31, 2022)

PioneerValleyOG said:


> Found this little bastard today. Too late for BT spray? Pretty advanced buds.


What is your plan? Ok I'm slow nevermind lol


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## burnpile (Aug 31, 2022)

PioneerValleyOG said:


> Sprayed yesterday as well. Ha ent checked for brown pistils yet, but will look asap. I hope not. Surprised there's not more responses to this thread since we are smack in wormpillar season.
> Q: I have a 5 gal pressure pump, in which I used 1 gal of bt mix=4t. Bt. I thought the wand was funky as it sprayed in two opposite directions. Then I realized that the wand was designed to reach into the plant and spray right and left. It was my first spray. I don't wanna say I soaked them, but I did be sure they had ample coverage.


I did soak them, also maybe had a heavier mix as I just poured some in without measuring.


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## PioneerValleyOG (Aug 31, 2022)

burnpile said:


> I did soak them, also maybe had a heavier mix as I just poured some in without measuring.


Oh. Yea, 4 teaspoons a gal isn't much. I went out n looked for brown pistils. Guess what I found instead? A freaking small green caterpillar, the inch worm type, that squinches up into a hump, then straightens out? Also, some kind of assassin bug with banded legs. Will try n post pics in a min. 
Also found botrytis or however you spell it, just in one spot. When I went to snip it, the branch almost broke off. This made me wonder if there is other underlying issues.
Here's a site that shows rainfall in the past 48 hours or longer. Works to tell me how much rain fell when I was dead asleep. 10 miles west of here was .12 but we were double that. And Double that ten more miles east.








Rainfall totals for the last 24 hours to 3 days - high resolution map – iWeatherNet


Radar-estimated precipitation accumulation for the past 24 hours to 3 days. High resolution and interactive rainfall data on Google Maps.



www.iweathernet.com





So I'm guessing yhe rain washed off my BT? How long before I should spray again? Should I right away? No signs of borers, that's good.
Last note, two of the plants that grew best, were in the half shade all day. I've heard tell that cannabis stops growing at 80°F. Which would explain my skinny ass plants this year.... That and I was not giving them the food I usually do. Now I'm back on track and it's September, I have one chance to get shit rolling down the right track, or it's gonna be a tough season, that may be only good for seeds. Too windy and too close to BT treatments to mess with pollinating today.
More later.


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## PioneerValleyOG (Aug 31, 2022)

I'm guessing we mostly deal with the cabbage looper, small green caterpillar, front and back feet, no middle, white stripe and the winter moth?


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## PioneerValleyOG (Aug 31, 2022)

Ok can someone help me identify thus? I wanna say assassin bug, and food, but I'm not sure.


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## radicaldank42 (Aug 31, 2022)

just use pyrethrins!!!


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## PioneerValleyOG (Aug 31, 2022)

radicaldank42 said:


> just use pyrethrins!!!


I think this is an assassin bug, and beneficial to my plants as it eats bugs and mites, not plants. I've never used pyrethrins before, can you tell me more about it?


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## radicaldank42 (Aug 31, 2022)

its a effective organic insecticide as long as its not mixed with a few ingredients. but it kills everything and keeps them safe for a hot second to by coating it in it as well
but thats a badside is it kills everytthing


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## oodawg (Aug 31, 2022)

I was covered up in bud worms last year all over everything out here, I really haven't seen them much this year. I did put out small buckets of dish soap and water around my greenhouse this year that caught a crap ton of those moths tho maybe that was it?


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## See green (Aug 31, 2022)

These are the eggs. The moths usually put only 1 or 2 on each bud mostly the tops. Ive been picking them off for the last few days. Now is prime time for budworm . Spray Bt at least once a week preferably after it rains and will be nice for a few days. You have to get them as soon as they hatch or else y0u will have a disaster. See if you can see the eggs.
There is a worm in this picture


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## See green (Aug 31, 2022)

oodawg said:


> I was covered up in bud worms last year all over everything out here, I really haven't seen them much this year. I did put out small buckets of dish soap and water around my greenhouse this year that caught a crap ton of those moths tho maybe that was it?


The problem is you won't see them until its too late. Trust me use the BT.


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## oodawg (Aug 31, 2022)

See green said:


> The problem is you won't see them until its too late. Trust me use the BT.


It's already too late, I ain't spraying my buds lol. I'd rather cut out some bud and/or rinse than smoke some chit I've seen people spray on thier plants in late flower. I did spray bt and neem in veg as a preventative.


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## obijohn (Sep 2, 2022)

See green said:


> These are the eggs. The moths usually put only 1 or 2 on each bud mostly the tops. Ive been picking them off for the last few days. Now is prime time for budworm . Spray Bt at least once a week preferably after it rains and will be nice for a few days. You have to get them as soon as they hatch or else y0u will have a disaster. See if you can see the eggs.View attachment 5190836View attachment 5190837View attachment 5190838
> There is a worm in this picture View attachment 5190839


I have Spinosad but may pick up BT as well. In your middle photo there's an egg hanging off a leaf. That's what I've seen over the years, it's like they are hanging on a little thread or something


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## Bus Stop Rat Bag (Sep 10, 2022)

burnpile said:


> After spraying with bt is it common to have alot of the pistols turn brown? sprayed at sundown.


A lot of mine did, from a hot dose batch of Neem that I applied right away after spotting worms. It was evening and next day it was brown city. For me it makes it more difficult to watch for bud rot, but would still have done it. Last year, my first grow, they really hit my Alien hard and I did get to keep some but had to toss a distressing amount that included every single one of the bigger main buds.

The night after the neem I sprayed a hot batch of BT I don't think it browned any worse than it already was. Found a mantis the next morning busily going over the best plant and I have looked quite a bit but found nothing for a couple of days now. Fingers crossed, it's been an unusually cooperative growing season here, if I can overcome worms and rot I think they can run until I cut them based on the appearance of the trichs, rather than the appearance of worms and rot


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## radicaldank42 (Sep 10, 2022)

Bus Stop Rat Bag said:


> A lot of mine did, from a hot dose batch of Neem that I applied right away after spotting worms. It was evening and next day it was brown city. For me it makes it more difficult to watch for bud rot, but would still have done it. Last year, my first grow, they really hit my Alien hard and I did get to keep some but had to toss a distressing amount that included every single one of the bigger main buds.
> 
> The night after the neem I sprayed a hot batch of BT I don't think it browned any worse than it already was. Found a mantis the next morning busily going over the best plant and I have looked quite a bit but found nothing for a couple of days now. Fingers crossed, it's been an unusually cooperative growing season here, if I can overcome worms and rot I think they can run until I cut them based on the appearance of the trichs, rather than the appearance of worms and rot


you shouldnt be using neem oil during flower its a vegg only thing. i believe somehting about the neem during flower and you smoke it idk cant fully remmeber. but buy some sodium percarbonate. mix into water and it becomes powerful hydrogen peroxide and you use that to stop any kind of fungus. and it will also dry out any eggs as well but h2o2 is amazing for fighint fungus, and if you wanted throw in some copper in the water and let itr soak for a few days and copper will breakdown in the water adn copper is also deadly to fungus spray plants.. again i just use pyrethrins (1 each month) for bugs plus use there predators that are released within the vicinity in spring. also control burning the area also helps.


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## Bus Stop Rat Bag (Sep 11, 2022)

radicaldank42 said:


> you shouldnt be using neem oil during flower its a vegg only thing.


Yikes ! Did not know that, so I really appreciate being told. I did notice that the neem shine and garlicky smell hung on longer than in past experience. I applied that Tuesday and they got rained on night before last and getting a better rain today. I won't make that mistake again, and I sure hope I didn't ruin my bud. I know it's not realistic to think I got them under control but I haven't seen any for 2-3 days now.

I use salts for nutrient and have no problem with chemicals, just want to stay safe and healthy y'know ? I knew about copper, is there a certain pyrethrin product you recommend ? Back in the day I did a lot of auto detailing, and had a great bug remover that used an enzyme to break them down, worked great and lately I've had thoughts of researching or testing to see if that or something similar might fly.

Mainly what I've learned is that late season bug control needs to start early season. I only have 3 plants this year but if they fall on their face I'll still be ok, last year went real well in spite of the worms I knocked down some decent yield. So 3 plants this year, but way better, they're in good health I'm sure that doesn't hurt anything. Last year the ones hit hardest were a bit sickly already when the worms came for them. Next year hopefully can be the year that the things I've learned bring out the grower in me. 3rd time is the charm they say.


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## buckaclark (Sep 11, 2022)

Bus Stop Rat Bag said:


> Yikes ! Did not know that, so I really appreciate being told. I did notice that the neem shine and garlicky smell hung on longer than in past experience. I applied that Tuesday and they got rained on night before last and getting a better rain today. I won't make that mistake again, and I sure hope I didn't ruin my bud. I know it's not realistic to think I got them under control but I haven't seen any for 2-3 days now.
> 
> I use salts for nutrient and have no problem with chemicals, just want to stay safe and healthy y'know ? I knew about copper, is there a certain pyrethrin product you recommend ? Back in the day I did a lot of auto detailing, and had a great bug remover that used an enzyme to break them down, worked great and lately I've had thoughts of researching or testing to see if that or something similar might fly.
> 
> Mainly what I've learned is that late season bug control needs to start early season. I only have 3 plants this year but if they fall on their face I'll still be ok, last year went real well in spite of the worms I knocked down some decent yield. So 3 plants this year, but way better, they're in good health I'm sure that doesn't hurt anything. Last year the ones hit hardest were a bit sickly already when the worms came for them. Next year hopefully can be the year that the things I've learned bring out the grower in me. 3rd time is the charm they say.


Pyrethrin is deadly poisonous,don't use in flower .BT and citric acid mostly.GL


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## Bus Stop Rat Bag (Sep 11, 2022)

buckaclark said:


> Pyrethrin is deadly poisonous,don't use in flower .BT and citric acid mostly.GL


Thank you buck. I can always just toss what bud I have to if it comes to that. I'm flexible you know ? not all Natzi about things but I don't want poison for me or anyone I might share a bit of my fruits with.


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## buckaclark (Sep 11, 2022)

Bus Stop Rat Bag said:


> Thank you buck. I can always just toss what bud I have to if it comes to that. I'm flexible you know ? not all Natzi about things but I don't want poison for me or anyone I might share a bit of my fruits with.


Well,BT is a bacteria that only targets caterpillar.Its not chemicals.It lasts a couple weeks and is gone.Trust ,it is much preferred to moldy caterpillar shit buds .I use it once when buds are starting and again after much rain or about four or five weeks in flower and then let them ride.I lost this whole plant last year before I started using BT .After BT ,my others had no damage.GL￼


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## buckaclark (Sep 11, 2022)

BT does not brown pistils or otherwise affect buds in my experience.


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## Bus Stop Rat Bag (Sep 11, 2022)

buckaclark said:


> Well,BT is a bacteria that only targets caterpillar.Its not chemicals.It lasts a couple weeks and is gone.Trust ,it is much preferred to moldy caterpillar shit buds .I use it once when buds are starting and again after much rain or about four or five weeks in flower and then let them ride. I lost this whole plant last year before I started using BT .After BT ,my others had no damage.GL￼


Agreed, I began using BT last year, just not til I had trouble late season. And then repeated that this year, but I broke it out the day after first spotting the worms and used as a spray and soil drench both. If I had soil drenched it 2-3 times earlier in the season the plant might have taken it up into it's tissues and be more ready to withstand the little buggers. I lost a bunch to worms last year from one strain I grew, probably tossed about a half bushel, it was a lot. But I had no reason to keep the moldy caterpillar shit buds either, don't want it for myself and wouldn't give that crap bud to anybody. Strange feeling to pull a bud open and it's looking back at you lol.


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## gzussaves69 (Sep 12, 2022)

Found this colorful sumbitch on my dill plant, squish!


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## Skopes120 (Sep 12, 2022)

How much do you mix for soil


Bus Stop Rat Bag said:


> Agreed, I began using BT last year, just not til I had trouble late season. And then repeated that this year, but I broke it out the day after first spotting the worms and used as a spray and soil drench both. If I had soil drenched it 2-3 times earlier in the season the plant might have taken it up into it's tissues and be more ready to withstand the little buggers. I lost a bunch to worms last year from one strain I grew, probably tossed about a half bushel, it was a lot. But I had no reason to keep the moldy caterpillar shit buds either, don't want it for myself and wouldn't give that crap bud to anybody. Strange feeling to pull a bud open and it's looking back at you lol.


how much do you mix for soil drench


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## See green (Sep 13, 2022)

gzussaves69 said:


> Found this colorful sumbitch on my dill plant, squish!


you killed a butterfly


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## Bus Stop Rat Bag (Sep 13, 2022)

Skopes120 said:


> How much do you mix for soilhow much do you mix for soil drench


I use mosquito bits currently, a fat cup in a gallon of water give or take. I put them in a cheap footie pantie hose from a dollar store and soak it all day. I sprayed the same mix also. Last year I mixed lighter than that and this year seems more effective than last. The color difference between what I was mixing last year and this year is obvious. I also set aside the used bits and later add them to water loose, after I give that water they're left lying around on top in case they have some residual goodness and just to add a little something back into the soil. 

I don't know if it's anything I did, but between a hot dose of neem spray, the BT, and a wee mantis I haven't seen a worm since the day after I first spotted them, and I've bored in and looked too because they like to make themselves a webby shitty little nest right by the branch or a stem.


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## Bus Stop Rat Bag (Sep 13, 2022)

See green said:


> you killed a butterfly


Right ? A Monarch unless I'm mistaken. My bud worms have been the inch worm kind, and a couple smaller ones I don't know but surely some moth. We have a lot of Monarchs around our place but there's a large patch of natural milkweed on nearby property that attracts them. They're numbers are declining because of lack of natural milkweed, other milkweed is bad for them.


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## burnpile (Sep 13, 2022)

gzussaves69 said:


> Found this colorful sumbitch on my dill plant, squish!


Thats a anise swallowtail caterpillar, they will only be on that type of plant, they dont touch pot. Looks similar to a monarch but the monarch will only be found on milkweed. they can live on all kinds of milkweed but it's best to not have tropical varieties, something to do with them blooming at the wrong time.


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## radicaldank42 (Sep 13, 2022)

buckaclark said:


> Pyrethrin is deadly poisonous,don't use in flower .BT and citric acid mostly.GL


Pyrethrin insecticides are biodegradable and will break down within a few days in direct sunlight. The insecticide does not persist in the soil or on the crop, which is why *it is relatively safe to use within a vegetable garden*. Remember that pyrethrin is highly toxic to most insects. fresh yes can be bad for you but any insecticide concentrate is bad for you to get on youre skin look at neem oil causes skin irritatioin and is also low in toxicitiy for humans. which is why it works. im not sayiung spray youre plants then harvest. spry when it is needed.


Bus Stop Rat Bag said:


> Yikes ! Did not know that, so I really appreciate being told. I did notice that the neem shine and garlicky smell hung on longer than in past experience. I applied that Tuesday and they got rained on night before last and getting a better rain today. I won't make that mistake again, and I sure hope I didn't ruin my bud. I know it's not realistic to think I got them under control but I haven't seen any for 2-3 days now.
> 
> I use salts for nutrient and have no problem with chemicals, just want to stay safe and healthy y'know ? I knew about copper, is there a certain pyrethrin product you recommend ? Back in the day I did a lot of auto detailing, and had a great bug remover that used an enzyme to break them down, worked great and lately I've had thoughts of researching or testing to see if that or something similar might fly.
> 
> Mainly what I've learned is that late season bug control needs to start early season. I only have 3 plants this year but if they fall on their face I'll still be ok, last year went real well in spite of the worms I knocked down some decent yield. So 3 plants this year, but way better, they're in good health I'm sure that doesn't hurt anything. Last year the ones hit hardest were a bit sickly already when the worms came for them. Next year hopefully can be the year that the things I've learned bring out the grower in me. 3rd time is the charm they say.


i use bonide pyrethrins. works wonders. and the poison breaks down after a few days and doesnt persist inthe soil for the plant to absorb nor stay on the plant permanentky. now it does kill all insects


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## Bus Stop Rat Bag (Sep 13, 2022)

I also like the idea of using predatory insects like the mantis, I was very happy to see that little guy. I know it's probably unrealistic to think they're gone, but I learned how to look and find them last year and I can't find any. The plant that had them has started to show signs of fade and also showing a bit of amber so maybe it can get across the finish line without becoming a colony. I'd like it to stay up another 7-10 days because it's supposed to be sunny and nice temps.


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## radicaldank42 (Sep 13, 2022)

Definitely do it man. And buy predators prior to the season. Plus do a few measures to help like a controlled burning of the area. Good idea is to use leafs in the spot use charcoal fluid and wet the outer area down heavily and have a few buckets on standby just in case and not on a windy day.


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## injinji (Sep 13, 2022)

See green said:


> There is a worm in this picture View attachment 5190839


I've only seen four or five worms all season. One like the skinny pale one pictured showed up after I got the plant in the barn today. 

I am still ass deep in rot. We had five days without rain in August. So far we've already had six with no rain this month. I'm going to have to start using the gas lantern to get them to mid August before they flower. But that means they won't have time to get any size to them.


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## Bus Stop Rat Bag (Sep 14, 2022)

Rediscovered my wee mantis buddy yesterday evening just a few feet away in the Durban Poison. I can only assume he moved off the Tahoe when he could no longer find a meal.


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## radicaldank42 (Sep 14, 2022)

im looking into this earth and grow shit i was talking to a person about electro culture adn they brought up earth&grow. and the method has been blowing up recently!! id definitely look a read into it.


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## radicaldank42 (Sep 14, 2022)

thath and ive been reading alot about how it increass yields by like 48-68 percent compared to those that arent. i was looking into when it was first a thing but now im definitely gonna try it.


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## Sir Napsalot (Sep 15, 2022)

I sprayed BT on my one lonely plant today


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## Derbud420 (Sep 18, 2022)

We had no idea what was in the brick weed back in the day. I'm sure there were bugs, molds, and who knows...smoked it all from gold to redbud. And still here to tell about it. I doubt if they even sepurated males out


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## Bus Stop Rat Bag (Sep 18, 2022)

Derbud420 said:


> We had no idea what was in the brick weed back in the day. I'm sure there were bugs, molds, and who knows...smoked it all from gold to redbud. And still here to tell about it. I doubt if they even sepurated males out


Roger that. Used to find eggs and bits of bugs or worms while cleaning seeds for sure. And thought nothing of it.


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## alaskanboy (Sep 24, 2022)

I am using spinosad and here is a link to a write up on it . https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/newsletters/hortupdate/hortupdate_archives/2004/mar04/Spinosad.html
this stuff works !my error was not starting it soon enough. I also read on here somewhere a guy contacted Monterey garden and asked about using it on marijauna during flower and was told it will wash right off. did not see any noticeable effect on pistils etc , just dead or dying catapillers


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## Sir Napsalot (Sep 25, 2022)

I've found ~5 caterpillars during my morning inspection over the past 3 days or so- 3 were dead and 2 were alive
I sprayed BT at just shy of double-strength this morning 
My BT is from last year and I'm wondering about it's potency


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## radicaldank42 (Sep 26, 2022)

alaskanboy said:


> I am using spinosad and here is a link to a write up on it . https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/newsletters/hortupdate/hortupdate_archives/2004/mar04/Spinosad.html
> this stuff works !my error was not starting it soon enough. I also read on here somewhere a guy contacted Monterey garden and asked about using it on marijauna during flower and was told it will wash right off. did not see any noticeable effect on pistils etc , just dead or dying catapillers


try the pyrehrins! its the same thing but stronger.


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## FishingwithDave (Sep 28, 2022)

I’m about to apply a third round of Doctor Zymes Eliminator to control White Flys and Thrips. (I also hung yellow and blue sticky cards.). Prior to using Eliminator, I was spraying BT every 7-10 days to control bud worms.

I’m likely gonna need to spray Eliminator weekly until everything is harvested. From what I’ve read, Eliminator is a contact killer that will kill eggs and larva. I’m thinking maybe Eliminator may also help to control bud worms by killing those eggs and larva too. Anybody have any experience using Eliminator and whether or not it will also eliminate bud worms with weekly spraying?

I would rather not have apply two different products, but will do so if that’s the best approach.

Appreciate the help!

Edit: I’ve reached out to Doctor Zymes asking them whether or not Eliminator plays well with BT. I’m waiting for them to call me back.


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## radicaldank42 (Sep 28, 2022)

FishingwithDave said:


> I’m about to apply a third round of Doctor Zymes Eliminator to control White Flys and Thrips. (I also hung yellow and blue sticky cards.). Prior to using Eliminator, I was spraying BT every 7-10 days to control bud worms.
> 
> I’m likely gonna need to spray Eliminator weekly until everything is harvested. From what I’ve read, Eliminator is a contact killer that will kill eggs and larva. I’m thinking maybe Eliminator may also help to control bud worms by killing those eggs and larva too. Anybody have any experience using Eliminator and whether or not it will also eliminate bud worms with weekly spraying?
> 
> ...


you should actually be using at least 2-3 different products for anything. being because whatever youre using it for gains a resistance to what youre using.


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## FishingwithDave (Sep 28, 2022)

radicaldank42 said:


> you should actually be using at least 2-3 different products for anything. being because whatever youre using it for gains a resistance to what youre using.


Good to know! I was spraying Neem Oil during veg and then BT after they started flowering. Once I became aware of the Thrip and White Fly infestations, I added Eliminator to the arsenal.


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## radicaldank42 (Sep 29, 2022)

and you shouldnt be using neem il during flower its bad for you. it should be used during veg.


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## Sir Napsalot (Oct 5, 2022)

Well so far I've found ~8 caterpillars, most of which were dead but 2-3 were still alive. I've also found at least a dozen small sites exhibiting "browning" which I pulled out with my zircon-encrusted tweezers and treated with peroxide to good effect
BT takes 2-3 days to kill caterpillars during which time they're free to fuck shit up


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## radicaldank42 (Oct 5, 2022)

Anyone been reading on spinosad being illegal to use for weed cultivation?? Cause of it being mildly toxic.


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## FishingwithDave (Oct 6, 2022)

Sir Napsalot said:


> Well so far I've found ~8 caterpillars, most of which were dead but 2-3 were still alive. I've also found at least a dozen small sites exhibiting "browning" which I pulled out with my zircon-encrusted tweezers and treated with peroxide to good effect
> BT takes 2-3 days to kill caterpillars during which time they're free to fuck shit up


I’m finding those little bastards everywhere the last few days, mostly on my herbs, but a few on buds too. Pulled up two mint plants and they were loaded with caterpillars!

Tell me more about how your using peroxide on those small brown spots.


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## radicaldank42 (Oct 6, 2022)

FishingwithDave said:


> I’m finding those little bastards everywhere the last few days, mostly on my herbs, but a few on buds too. Pulled up two mint plants and they were loaded with caterpillars!
> 
> Tell me more about how your using peroxide on those small brown spots.


you simply use concentrated in water or use store bought in a spray bottle. and just spray the affected areas.


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## Sir Napsalot (Oct 6, 2022)

FishingwithDave said:


> I’m finding those little bastards everywhere the last few days, mostly on my herbs, but a few on buds too. Pulled up two mint plants and they were loaded with caterpillars!
> 
> Tell me more about how your using peroxide on those small brown spots.


I pull the brown parts out with tweezers (they come out easily) and then spray the surrounding area with 3% hydrogen peroxide mixed 1:1 with water in a little misting sprayer


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## FishingwithDave (Oct 6, 2022)

Sir Napsalot said:


> I pull the brown parts out with tweezers (they come out easily) and then spray the surrounding area with 3% hydrogen peroxide mixed 1:1 with water in a little misting sprayer


Thank you Sir! I just found a dead worm near a small brown spot. Gonna try this now.


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## Sir Napsalot (Oct 6, 2022)

FishingwithDave said:


> Thank you Sir! I just found a dead worm near a small brown spot. Gonna try this now.


Are you using BT?


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## Sir Napsalot (Oct 6, 2022)

Also, hydrogen peroxide will kill mold, but it is also somewhat injurious to the plant's epidermis


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## FishingwithDave (Oct 6, 2022)

Sir Napsalot said:


> Are you using BT?


Yes, I’ve been spraying them with BT since they started flowering, but there were some greater than one week gaps in spraying. I also have them under 30% shade cloth, but it’s not 100% coverage so the moths still find their way in and lay eggs. BT spraying will be on point to I’m done harvesting.


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## Kerowacked (Oct 6, 2022)

I’ve used btk for the last couple years fighting cats and picking off eggs. This year i’m using spinosad and see less eggs and only lost one bud so far. Proof if it works better will be how many drop out while they hang dry.


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## DCcan (Oct 7, 2022)

Spinosad has a much higher motality rate ~80-85% vs 65% for _btk _for caterpillars
However, if you combine them when applying, it gets up around +98%.
Same with mixing_ btk_ with B Bassiana for caterpillars, it brings the mortality rate way up since there are several modes of action going on.

I mixed 2 types, Bt-k and Bt-a (Xentari) this year, really worked well.


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## FishingwithDave (Oct 7, 2022)

DCcan said:


> Spinosad has a much higher motality rate ~80-85% vs 65% for _btk _for caterpillars
> However, if you combine them when applying, it gets up around +98%.
> Same with mixing_ btk_ with B Bassiana for caterpillars, it brings the mortality rate way up since there are several modes of action going on.
> 
> I mixed 2 types, Bt-k and Bt-a (Xentari) this year, really worked well.


Appreciate the info! Do you mix BTK with Spinosad and then spray or are you spraying them separately at different times?


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## Sir Napsalot (Oct 7, 2022)

Every time I read "BTK" Dennis Rader comes to mind


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## DCcan (Oct 7, 2022)

Sir Napsalot said:


> Every time I read "BTK" Dennis Rader comes to mind


Same here, try to do lower case or a dash to keep the heebie jeebies away. 




FishingwithDave said:


> Appreciate the info! Do you mix BTK with Spinosad and then spray or are you spraying them separately at different times?


No, they tank mix fine. Just do them at the lower application rates when mixing.
Usually spray Regaila with it at the same time, no problem.


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## Snowgreen421 (Oct 9, 2022)

Yeah I found these f*ckers Iny babies just a few days ago. I sprayed with bt and now just looking for the rotting spots to tear put. So sad. My babies were looking so good until a week ago....here's one of them I pulled out yesterday after spraying with Monterey Bt.hes a bigger one. I found little budworms imbedded in my best buds...


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## Kerowacked (Oct 9, 2022)

Those hairs could be venomous, some are.


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## FishingwithDave (Oct 10, 2022)

Found a few more brown spots today and a couple live caterpillars. Used Sir Napsalot tweezers and peroxide to treat the spots and tortured the cats. I sprayed BT yesterday morning and on 10/4/22. I don’t know if it’s killing those bastards or not, but I think it is cause the damage seems to be limited.


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## Dark_Hatchling (Oct 10, 2022)

FishingwithDave said:


> Found a few more brown spots today and a couple live caterpillars. Used Sir Napsalot tweezers and peroxide to treat the spots and tortured the cats. I sprayed BT yesterday morning and on 10/4/22. I don’t know if it’s killing those bastards or not, but I think it is cause the damage seems to be limited.View attachment 5210652View attachment 5210653View attachment 5210654


Yeah those things are some little fuckers. You're almost there though, keep inspecting every day. I like to go worm hunting in the early mornings.


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## Snowgreen421 (Oct 12, 2022)

worm hunting for me in the north bay seems to be around 4 or 430pm. I sprayed with B.t. a few days ago. I pulled a little one off the outside, maybe it was dying. Plants seem to be holding on. Not getting worse anywAYS.


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## Sir Napsalot (Oct 20, 2022)

I'm starting to harvest now and so far I've found one small live caterpillar in a bud

It's really amazing how much damage one small caterpillar can do in a couple of days

On the plus side, most of my flowers are clean and unaffected


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## Snowgreen421 (Oct 22, 2022)

I've beem slowly harvesting mine. Found one live caterpillar and some bud rot but most of my flowers are good. Happy harvest!


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## FishingwithDave (Oct 24, 2022)

This has to be the worst year for bud worms for me! Just found six more damaged areas this afternoon and this morning, I didn’t see any bad spots! Maybe the morning sun messes with my eyes, I don’t know. Fuck! And, I’m not seeing any dead or alive cats and I’m not any eggs either. So fucking frustrating as these fuckers are really starting to take a toll.

A question. I’m usually done harvesting by now, but the four remaining plants still have a couple of weeks to go. I’m in central California. Are the moths more active this time of the year or could the warmer temps this October prolonged their activity?

I think I’m pulling down the 30% shade cloth and replacing with mosquito netting I have.


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## CaptainCAVEMAN (Dec 21, 2022)

Snowgreen421 said:


> Yeah I found these f*ckers Iny babies just a few days ago. I sprayed with bt and now just looking for the rotting spots to tear put. So sad. My babies were looking so good until a week ago....here's one of them I pulled out yesterday after spraying with Monterey Bt.hes a bigger one. I found little budworms imbedded in my best buds...


That is an excellent picture of the little fuckers.  Thanks for sharing here. Cheers!


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## BrassNwood (Dec 31, 2022)

FishingwithDave said:


> This has to be the worst year for bud worms for me! Just found six more damaged areas this afternoon and this morning, I didn’t see any bad spots! Maybe the morning sun messes with my eyes, I don’t know. Fuck! And, I’m not seeing any dead or alive cats and I’m not any eggs either. So fucking frustrating as these fuckers are really starting to take a toll.
> 
> A question. I’m usually done harvesting by now, but the four remaining plants still have a couple of weeks to go. I’m in central California. Are the moths more active this time of the year or could the warmer temps this October prolonged their activity?
> 
> I think I’m pulling down the 30% shade cloth and replacing with mosquito netting I have.View attachment 5217270


For BT to really be effective you have to start spraying when the buds first form and keep on the treatments once a week every week without fail. Even missing one week can let the little shitters get established and dug in to deep to eat treated leaf. Running a bug zapper near by will help to limit the damn moths that are the source of our troubles.

I chopped the grills out of this style so i can brush out the dead every morning as my monitor on how bad the infestation is.

10 years I've successfully fought the little bastards and Southern California is thick with them. BT is destroyed by sunlight in a few hours so you can spray right up to and including the week of harvest. If I lose a bud now I have only myself to blame and can always look back and think Ahhh I missed the middle week of Sept BT spraying when we were out of town.


I alternate BT on Monday and Potassium Bicarbonate for the Powdery Mildew on Thursday. This is all I find I have to treat for. Mother nature controls everything else.

BNW


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