# The Bloom Boom Room (Back to Basics)



## drekoushranada (Aug 11, 2013)

I started out with vertical growing and had awesome results.I then went against the golden saying which is "if it's not broke don't fix it". I started doing horizontal grows and realized how much time and money I wasted. So here I am back to vertical growing. The strain is OGR WIFI and I think a Blue OG is in the DWC. The system is a 4 site DIY Under Current system. Lighting is 1000watt hps. The pics are from first and second week of flower. I will be putting a screen up around the bulb this week also. Any questions or critiques please feel free to chime in.


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## drekoushranada (Aug 11, 2013)

Here are the pictures.


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## CaptainCAVEMAN (Aug 11, 2013)

Nice man.


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## drekoushranada (Aug 11, 2013)

CaptainCAVEMAN said:


> Nice man.


 Thanks. I am hoping I can hit 2lbs or more from this run. If it was not so freaking hot I would add another 600 watt light.


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## whodatnation (Aug 11, 2013)

Looks great so far  frosty nugs not too far off now. 
What diameter will your screen be?


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## drekoushranada (Aug 12, 2013)

whodatnation said:


> Looks great so far  frosty nugs not too far off now.
> What diameter will your screen be?


 I am not really sure. I was wondering if I should go 24" diameter or 48". What do you think I should go with?


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## drekoushranada (Aug 12, 2013)

Also for those who are wondering what I am feeding it is Dyna Gro Foliage Pro along with Pro-Tek. The ppm is at 750. I am going to add powdered Kool Bloom around week 3 or 4.


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## whodatnation (Aug 12, 2013)

For a 1k I think 4' diameter would be good. Can't wait to see this unravel.


peace


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## drekoushranada (Aug 13, 2013)

Awesome. I will post some pics of the screen when I set it up in a few days.


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## Prawn Connery (Aug 15, 2013)

Nice set-up. I love how close you have your plants to the light source - that will make all the difference during flowering. With that in mind, I reckon 24" diameter cage will be fine. Mine's about 18" wide (just enough to fit around a 12" floor fan) and I run 1200w.

Also, 2lb should be well within reach. Maybe even 3lbs if all goes well . . .


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## drekoushranada (Aug 15, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Nice set-up. I love how close you have your plants to the light source - that will make all the difference during flowering. With that in mind, I reckon 24" diameter cage will be fine. Mine's about 18" wide (just enough to fit around a 12" floor fan) and I run 1200w.
> 
> Also, 2lb should be well within reach. Maybe even 3lbs if all goes well . . .


 That's what I am hoping for. I have a 8 bulb t5 with only 2 bulbs working (crappy ballast) in my veg tent. Will it be better to put my 600w hps dimmed down to 300w in there rather than have 108w of light for 5 plants in there? I am looking into getting a 600w MH bulb until I can grab a new t5 fixture once funds permit me to do so. I need the awesome growth the 8 bulb t5 was giving me when it worked.


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## drekoushranada (Aug 16, 2013)

I have the screen up. In a few days I may trim up the huge plant. I have learned it is best to put the screen in before the stretch and not during it. I'm at 750ppm right now. I feel I have taken for granted how much the WiFi can fill in. The next area will be done with a 600 watter. Here is a pic of the new round in the veg tent.


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## drekoushranada (Aug 17, 2013)

One of the plants went a bit droopy on me for some reason. I I wonder if it is stress from being tied up last night?.... Well I added a stone in the Rez for that plant.


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## whodatnation (Aug 17, 2013)

Where are the roots?


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## drekoushranada (Aug 17, 2013)

Here is a better pic. They are healthy. The plant root system is not as full as the others though. I'm going to give it one more day. If nothing changes by tomorrow I'm going to have to replace it.


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## whodatnation (Aug 17, 2013)

I'm thinking that stalk is too submerged. Are all the plants lower halves looking like that?


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## drekoushranada (Aug 18, 2013)

No they are not. It did happen after I topped it off though. I raised it up some. I will see if I can raise it up some more though.


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## drekoushranada (Aug 18, 2013)

The plant is raised up about 6". I hope that fixes the problem. If not it will have to go. That is some prime real estate it is taking up. haha.. I will report back when the lights come on.


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## whodatnation (Aug 18, 2013)

If I had to guess I'd say she did t make it... What's the word?


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## drekoushranada (Aug 18, 2013)

I am going to check on her in a few hours to see if she made a recovery. If not it will be easy to replace her. I cant wait until my other strains are big enough to give clones. I am thinking the WiFi may not be a yielder at all. But we shall see. She might be a surprise!


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## drekoushranada (Aug 18, 2013)

I forgot to add that I transplanted the WWxBB and the Snowcap plants in a mix of coco and Pro Mix HP. I didn't have any perlite so I used the pro mix. I am sure it will be fine.


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## drekoushranada (Aug 18, 2013)

Well the droopy plant didn't make it and got replaced. This is the start of week 3 and we have a bit of bud porn.


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## drekoushranada (Aug 22, 2013)

The plants are drinking damn near 10 gallons of water a week. I will be changing the rez and snapping more pics this weekend. Do you think it will be a good time to start the powdered Kool Bloom?


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## drekoushranada (Aug 24, 2013)

This is the start of week 4 bloom. Everything is looking great. I am running Dyna Gro Foliage Pro all the way through. I upped the ppm to 1000 and added 2 tsp of Kool bloom powder. I only used it because I had it from my first grow. Any questions feel free to ask. Also I added some pics of the new mother plants.


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## drekoushranada (Aug 27, 2013)

No major updates for the room yet. The room is starting to stink though!


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## JeromeT (Aug 28, 2013)

Looking good. Sub'd.


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## drekoushranada (Aug 29, 2013)

I am going to be tucking a few big fan leaves back tonight. Will post pictures after I am done.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 1, 2013)

Here are a few bud shots.


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## medicineforpatients (Sep 1, 2013)

Wow Im interested in how it turns out. Im going to do my first vertical soon after my plants get too big for the cfl. You're plants look sativa dominant. Are only sativas really any good for vertical?


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## drekoushranada (Sep 2, 2013)

medicineforpatients said:


> Wow Im interested in how it turns out. Im going to do my first vertical soon after my plants get too big for the cfl. You're plants look sativa dominant. Are only sativas really any good for vertical?


I like a plant that stretches a bit. On my first grow I did about 5 different strains. I love the wifi but I don't think it is good in my grow situation for a monocrop grow situation. It is very sativa dom. Too dom for my taste. I hope they swell in the upcoming weeks though. I'm ready doe my next strains also.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 2, 2013)

New clones and topped WWxBB and Snowcap.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 2, 2013)

I just decided that I need to up the lighting in the veg cabinet. The horrible 108w from 2 4 foot t5 bulbs are not going to cut it. I am going to put a MH bulb in there dimmed down to 400w and see what it does. If the plants are growing so well in vegg given the weak lighting they are given I would love to see them under some actual power. I just need them to grow faster if I am going to start up my 3 week perpetual grow/harvest. Any suggestions or comments?


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## drekoushranada (Sep 2, 2013)

I just put a 400w mh in the veg tent. I think my digital thermometer does not like it. LOL it is reading 88f but it feels cooler than my flower room with a ton of air movement. Not to mention I have a 8" inline fan exhausting the tent.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 5, 2013)

This is My next round.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 6, 2013)

One thing that I noticed is the clones from the mother plant are flowering faster than the mother plant in the same grow. It seems as if they are going to produce more as well if you were to compare the size. I shall post pics later of what I mean.


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## hyroot (Sep 8, 2013)

drekoushranada said:


> One thing that I noticed is the clones from the mother plant are flowering faster than the mother plant in the same grow. It seems as if they are going to produce more as well if you were to compare the size. I shall post pics later of what I mean.


from my experience. Clones almost always finish a week sooner the mother seed. Veg faster and produce more. The seed is more symetrical

happy growing


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## drekoushranada (Sep 8, 2013)

That is exactly what I am seeing.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 11, 2013)

Well one of my UC buckets are leaking pretty bad and I'm having a horrible time trying to seal our up. Next time I Will use thick wall square totes instead of crappy 5 gallon buckets. I'm going to put them in individual DWC buckets to finish up these next 3 weeks while I do the UC system over.


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## hyroot (Sep 11, 2013)

PVC glue and PVC sealant. You have to let each dry and cure for a day without getting wet. I used that back in the day when I made fill and drain x ebben flow x film kits. They were those white plastic poly what ever fence posts. I uses the glue on the end caps. So they wouldn't .
leak. The smell and from the glue and sealant is pretty strong and over bearing. So do it outside or open a window.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 14, 2013)

I was tired of the buckets leaking so I put them in individual DWC buckets. This is starting week 7.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 15, 2013)

I had to break down the UC system and put them all in DWC buckets. They are doing really well so far. These new strains that I have are have awesome vigor. They are damn near catching the ones planted way before them. I am using my personal blend of Coco and Promix HP also. Please feel free to add comments and suggestions.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 15, 2013)

I am not really sure why they came out sideways.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 16, 2013)

Does anybody know a good carbon filter for pushing and not pulling?


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## whodatnation (Sep 16, 2013)

drekoushranada said:


> Does anybody know a good carbon filter for pushing and not pulling?



I push through a "phresh filter" They say it works either way, but Im sure you can do the same with most carbon filters.

Looking good drek!


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## drekoushranada (Sep 16, 2013)

whodatnation said:


> I push through a "phresh filter" They say it works either way, but Im sure you can do the same with most carbon filters.
> 
> Looking good drek!


Thanks. What size do you use? My room is about 8'x8'. My fans are 8" 720cfm. I don't want to buy too small of a filter.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 16, 2013)

whodatnation said:


> I push through a "phresh filter" They say it works either way, but Im sure you can do the same with most carbon filters.
> 
> Looking good drek!


Thanks. What size do you use? My room is about 8'x8'. My fans are 8" 720cfm. I don't want to buy too small of a filter.


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## whodatnation (Sep 16, 2013)

Each filter has a cfm rating, just match the filters cfm with your fans cfm closely.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 19, 2013)

I'm going to put some updated pictures up tonight. Free the plant of some of these big fan leaves. A bit of a jump start on trimming.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 19, 2013)

I need to hurry up and get these into flower!


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## drekoushranada (Sep 22, 2013)

I had to make space for the new additions to the grow room. They are Blue Og, Snowcap, WWxBB, and Judy. The Wifi is going to be pulled this Saturday which would put her at 9 weeks. I am really not liking her flower time and insane stretch for my growing style. She is a beast for sure though. I may grow one Wifi per grow. When I add the 600w on the other side of the room I will be able to harvest once every 3 weeks for sure. Plus it is even easier because I now only use Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro from start to finish. I took for granted how strong the 1000w is and should of made my screen a bit bigger than 38" diameter. But I don't think I will use another hanging screen again. I may try one attached to the wall though.


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## budbro18 (Sep 22, 2013)

Looks like a nice yield. i see you use air pots for veg. Do you just use them for mothers or all the way through flowering??


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## drekoushranada (Sep 22, 2013)

Well I will be using them all the way through flowering. I am2 very happy with the way th they are working. But in all honesty I won't purchase any more. Just simple 2-3 gallon pots for flowering.


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## hyroot (Sep 22, 2013)

Check out green gator filters.

edit:
http://greengatorfilters.com/


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## drekoushranada (Sep 22, 2013)

These will be put in after 3 weeks under the 400 watt Mh. I will take clones tomorrow for the next round after that.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 27, 2013)

I will be sure to throw up some week 9 pictures this weekend for sure.


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## Magical Unicorn (Sep 27, 2013)

Have your heard of DNA Lighting? Their Tru Sun 900w lamp is made for vertical burn... They also have a stealthy 330w unit that can burn in any position. Full spectrum CMH is the way to grow my friend.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 28, 2013)

Magical Unicorn said:


> Have your heard of DNA Lighting? Their Tru Sun 900w lamp is made for vertical burn... They also have a stealthy 330w unit that can burn in any position. Full spectrum CMH is the way to grow my friend.


 No I have not heard of them. I just keep it simple and use what I already have these days.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 29, 2013)

I am ready to pull these and give the room a quick redesign. The cool tube is pretty dusty on the 1000 watt light. I will give it a good clean after harvest. I am not liking how the plants are stretching on me. Unless it is normal for the internodes to spread out like that. I think it is strain dependent also. I am leaning on going bare bulb 1000w also. My 4x4 veg tent is reading 5% RH for some reason. I do have a 730cfm can fan for the exhaust on it. The plants blew up from last week though so I might just ignore the readings. Though my clones seem to be a bit droopy.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 29, 2013)

The site wont let me upload pictures at the moment so I will try again later!


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## drekoushranada (Sep 30, 2013)

I was finally able to get the pictures up.


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## drekoushranada (Oct 1, 2013)

The ladies are most certainly ready now. I looked under the scope at the trichs and they are cloudy with a few amber coming in!


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## drekoushranada (Oct 5, 2013)

I'm finally done harvesting. I shall post results later!


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## harris hawk (Oct 5, 2013)

I harvest when I see one or two amber when looking thru a 60x's 80-85% milky what do yopu think?


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## drekoushranada (Oct 5, 2013)

harris hawk said:


> I harvest when I see one or two amber when looking thru a 60x's 80-85% milky what do yopu think?


That is pretty much how I do mine. I also make sure the whole plant "looks" done as well.


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## drekoushranada (Oct 5, 2013)

I have a new round in flower. They are in the 3rd week of 12/12. The strains are Blue OG, WWxBB, Snowcap, and Judy. I will add the Wifi in a few days after I take clones from it. Has anybody ran the blue OG? I'm very curious about this plant because the pheno I have is very huge compared to what I researched. I ran it outdoor and I think it may be a keeper. Here is a pic of the ladies drying also. Any questions or critiques please comment.


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## budbro18 (Oct 6, 2013)

Looks like a good harvest. Are your WWxBB clones or from seed? I got some Dinafem blue widow goin that's WWxBB. I've always liked berry white and I'm hopin to get a phone similar to it.


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## drekoushranada (Oct 6, 2013)

budbro18 said:


> Looks like a good harvest. Are your WWxBB clones or from seed? I got some Dinafem blue widow goin that's WWxBB. I've always liked berry white and I'm hopin to get a phone similar to it.


I have the White Widow x Big Bud from female seeds. It is from seed. I did run the white widow x blue berry from dinafem. It was a great strain f to say the least.


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## budbro18 (Oct 6, 2013)

Ah got you. How'd the blue widow yield? I've heard it's some good smoke. 

The WWxBig bud should yield really nice. Got a guess at the yield from the recent harvest?


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## drekoushranada (Oct 6, 2013)

budbro18 said:


> Ah got you. How'd the blue widow yield? I've heard it's some good smoke.
> 
> The WWxBig bud should yield really nice. Got a guess at the yield from the recent harvest?


The Blue Widow was a decent yield. I don't remember the exact numbers though. I just hope I got a pounds or more. The buds are so dense so I can't give a good guess. Lol


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## budbro18 (Oct 6, 2013)

Nice! i just harvested about 8-10 oz off the hog under my 600w. Sticky fingers

Its a pretty nice producer but doesnt have any specific smell. Just kushy/hashy. Almost like the smell of just thc. haha

Its strong and super coated from calyx to fan leaf but still doesnt have any major flavor in the smoke.

Hopefully the blue widow will be a little of both.


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## drekoushranada (Oct 7, 2013)

budbro18 said:


> Nice! i just harvested about 8-10 oz off the hog under my 600w. Sticky fingers
> 
> Its a pretty nice producer but doesnt have any specific smell. Just kushy/hashy. Almost like the smell of just thc. haha
> 
> ...


Now that is awesome. I'm going to have to fire up my 600 also.


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## budbro18 (Oct 7, 2013)

haha thanks, the trim will make some nice hash. Its definitely the "cash cropper" they claim it to be. But its just that. Alot of weight, easy to grow, and flowers fast.

Just wish it had some FLAVAAAAA!

600s are the shit. Bouta get another one and have a bigger flower room in a few months. Then ill have a 1200w hps/mh flower room and 400-650w cmh veg room.


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## drekoushranada (Oct 7, 2013)

budbro18 said:


> haha thanks, the trim will make some nice hash. Its definitely the "cash cropper" they claim it to be. But its just that. Alot of weight, easy to grow, and flowers fast.
> 
> Just wish it had some FLAVAAAAA!
> 
> 600s are the shit. Bouta get another one and have a bigger flower room in a few months. Then ill have a 1200w hps/mh flower room and 400-650w cmh veg room.


I am pretty much doing the same. I hope to find a keeper out of these new strains I am running.


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## drekoushranada (Oct 8, 2013)

Well I harvested 20.5oz or 574g. I am going to give the WiFi another run. I hope with the cooler weather approaching I can increase the yield.


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## drekoushranada (Oct 12, 2013)

Here are some shots of the new group. 7 plants total. 4 of them are in their 3rd week of flower and 3 of them just got put in. I'm trying to get a perpetual set up going. A harvest every three weeks. Maybe 2 once I set up the other light.


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## max420thc (Oct 14, 2013)

I dont know what to say or where to start.I suppose its none of my business how you grow.
Brother your shit is all fucked up.Im not saying this to be mean to you but there is nothing in your grow that cannot be improved greatly upon.
Get rid of the vert. You are losing floor space for growing with the vert. You cannot direct to intensity or focus your lamp. Get you a good hood like the super corba that will spread and focus the light.This will hit the tops of the plants with more intense light keeping your plants more compact and bringing your internodal spaces closer together.Also allowing you to grow more plants with more efficient use of floor space.Your losing huge growing space around the lamp and are losing production.Not to mention burning your plant up with the vertical.
Who ever told you to use dynagrow foliage pro should have their ass whooped..keeping your plants green but losing production and quality.
To much nitrogen will make your buds shit at the end of harvest.
A light bulb throws light in 360 degree all the way around it.The logic behind a vertical is somewhat sound if a HOOD had never been invented.But it has..decades ago actually.
The light from the bulb is directed into the reflector around the bulb focusing and directing the intensity of the bulb in the direction YOU want it to go.Preferably DOWN.
If you dont believe me take your plants and situate them to cover a 5x5 area of floor and see how much room you have left and how much room the light in the center has taken away from you.
The plants should be stalked and trained to form multi colas all similar in height during the vegetative cycle.Pinch, top ,.shake trim lower branch's ect.Get them trained before they ever go to flower.This will keep the canopy even and increase your production greatly.
Purchase some orca film and ditch the tin foil and panda film..PUT the orca film under your plants and sit the buckets back on top of them this will reflect wasted light back up into the canopy.
Situate your plants near a wall and line the wall with orca film.Make you some curtains out of orca film and put them on ratchet hangers near the plant to drop hang the curtains you make as close to the plants as you can on the sides reflecting wasted light back into the plants.The curtains can be made out of orca with a piece of 1/2 inch electrical conduit. spray glue a couple of eye bolts that your ratchet straps hook to to make the curtain easy to move out of the way for work and allow air to move around the curtain and through the plants.My curtains are 2.5 ft is all in height. The closer you can get the orca to the light and plants the faster and more intense it will deflect the light back into the plants.There is no such thing as too much light.
ORCA film is not the same as panda film or mylar or any other product made..The shit is bad ass easily cleanable lasts a long time.Cost is twice as much as mylar..BUT IT WILL PAY FOR ITSELF FIRST GROW.Would you trade me a hundred for a thousand dollars? well would you?
There are three stages of plant growth in bud.
The first phase of a plants life cycle in BUD or bloom is the transition phase.This is the phase of a plants life that it converts from a vegetative phase to the bloom phase.
During this phase a plant is using huge amounts of N/P. With a two month strain it is around 2 weeks for the plant to transition.
During this stage a increase in feeding of a high N is ok..but MOST plant foods have enough N to make the transition OK.If a grower wanted to add a LITTLE EXTRA N at this stage ONLY.
AS SOON as you see the plant set bud its time to start boosting P/K rates.
The second stage of development is called the development stage.This is when the plant builds bud and puts on weight.This stage lasts for around 4 weeks.At this stage the plant will not need as much N and will need P/K more.Your bloom boosters will work best in this stage.
The third stage is the finishing stage.The last two weeks of a two month cycle. This is where your buds ripen and harden.During this stage the plant will want increased amounts of K and a SLIGHT increase in N.
Your plants from the High N food are not finishing or fading correctly.Dynagrow is fooking you hard core.Its fooking you out of quality its fookin you out of production and its fookin you out of money.
If you are going to use us that crap only use it the first two weeks then change to something with a lower N ratio and higher PK ratios.ANY OTHER BLOOM FOOD WOULD BE BETTER..ANYTHING..ANYTHING AT ALL.
I grow some amazingly unproductive strains and they are twice as developed at the same stage of growth your plants are.TWICE.
ALLOT of growers keep trying to push dynagrow on me around here..but none of them can show me the results other than complete crap.
Everyone keeps saying how it does as good as anything else..No one around here has been able to prove it to me.Then they say how concentrated and cheap it is. Yea..you get what you pay for.Dynogrow is for growing corn and beans or farm crops cheaply .Not marijuana.
The only pictures of my grow are on raiders thread.
Now let the haters come out on me.I know..i asked for it
I hope this post does help someone though.


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## drekoushranada (Oct 14, 2013)

max420thc said:


> I dont know what to say or where to start.I suppose its none of my business how you grow.
> Brother your shit is all fucked up.Im not saying this to be mean to you but there is nothing in your grow that cannot be improved greatly upon.
> Get rid of the vert. You are losing floor space for growing with the vert. You cannot direct to intensity or focus your lamp. Get you a good hood like the super corba that will spread and focus the light.This will hit the tops of the plants with more intense light keeping your plants more compact and bringing your internodal spaces closer together.Also allowing you to grow more plants with more efficient use of floor space.Your losing huge growing space around the lamp and are losing production.Not to mention burning your plant up with the vertical.
> Who ever told you to use dynagrow foliage pro should have their ass whooped..keeping your plants green but losing production and quality.
> ...


I am sure no hate will come to you at all m8. Everybody is due to voice their own opinion. You provided some very useful information.


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## Bud Candy Man (Oct 14, 2013)

max420thc said:


> I dont know what to say or where to start.I suppose its none of my business how you grow.
> Brother your shit is all fucked up.Im not saying this to be mean to you but there is nothing in your grow that cannot be improved greatly upon.
> Get rid of the vert. You are losing floor space for growing with the vert. You cannot direct to intensity or focus your lamp. Get you a good hood like the super corba that will spread and focus the light.This will hit the tops of the plants with more intense light keeping your plants more compact and bringing your internodal spaces closer together.Also allowing you to grow more plants with more efficient use of floor space.Your losing huge growing space around the lamp and are losing production.Not to mention burning your plant up with the vertical.
> Who ever told you to use dynagrow foliage pro should have their ass whooped..keeping your plants green but losing production and quality.
> ...


 When someone says "I am not saying this to be mean" , they are being mean .


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## drekoushranada (Oct 14, 2013)

max420thc said:


> I dont know what to say or where to start.I suppose its none of my business how you grow.
> Brother your shit is all fucked up.Im not saying this to be mean to you but there is nothing in your grow that cannot be improved greatly upon.
> Get rid of the vert. You are losing floor space for growing with the vert. You cannot direct to intensity or focus your lamp. Get you a good hood like the super corba that will spread and focus the light.This will hit the tops of the plants with more intense light keeping your plants more compact and bringing your internodal spaces closer together.Also allowing you to grow more plants with more efficient use of floor space.Your losing huge growing space around the lamp and are losing production.Not to mention burning your plant up with the vertical.
> Who ever told you to use dynagrow foliage pro should have their ass whooped..keeping your plants green but losing production and quality.
> ...


I am sure no hate will come to you at all m8. Everybody is due to voice their own opinion. You provided some very useful information. But there were problems with my grow for sure. That is way growers chart and log the things they do. It is a constant cycle we go through to improve what we are doing. Growing vertical is my preference right along with using Dyna gro from start to finish. I would tune the nutrient ratios more for my next grow. The fun of growing to me is being able to experiment and try new things. Now Dyna Gro has proven to be a good fertilizer but you can ask HB and Uncle Ben about that. I do understand that some people grow for a living and some do it as a hobby. I tend to fall in the hobby category. With experimentation you win some and you lose some. I have lost some but I can afford to do that for the hobby I love doing. I am having fun and tend to think I'm dynamic. Now that's all subjective of course.


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## Purpsdro420 (Oct 14, 2013)

Lol this maxthc is funny. You come to the vert section and tell this guy his shit is fucked up and get rid of vert. You obviously have never grown vert.


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## max420thc (Oct 14, 2013)

If i were to grow vert how would i do it?Would it b e the most effective use of space,light and air?
Just thinking how i would do it.Id use a vert bulb with a parabolic hood mounted someplace above the light but high enough to allow the light spread from the hood.
Plants would be set under the hood and bulb to use the space under the bulb and staggered upward in a stadium out from their .The plants would be pulled over and died down the allow the side branch's to grow up allowing more bud sites on TERMINAL shoots,instead of side branchs that do not contain as much energy for bud development.Tying the plant side ways will pump more hormones to the side branch's acting as terminal shoots.Plants would be under the bulb and all around the bulb, canopy management,trimming would be done to the lower branch's forming nothing but terminal shoots going up .Everything would be covered in orca with curtains hung behind the plants on the outside to reflect as much light back in as possible.
That being said..You will lose the intensity and focus of the bulb.Like a flash light.The light hits a reflective cone intensifying it and focusing the beam where you want it to go.
Some flash lights you can get even ajust the spread and intensity of the beam of light.
This is what a hood does for your light..it focus's the beam of light and intensify's the light into the target area.
The whole idea of a vert grow is to maximize the use of space and increase production? or am i wrong? apparently im wrong?
But yea..his shit is fucked up..from go to whoa he has been giving them way to much nitrogen enriched food.
The sides of his branchs are burned up. the light is not contained,.Use of space is poor at best.
And he asked for advice,
Would you all have me lie to the man and tell him his shit is great?
So far everything i have told the man makes logical sense. correct? 
Drek has never done anything to me to cause me to fuck the dude over with bad opinions and advice.Matter of fact he has been very gracious.
He can take my advice or not as he sees fit.But at least someone needs to say hay dude..There is a better way.
There are people on here..good, bad, intentional or otherwise giving out BAD advice to people and they are hurting their plants.Like blasting nitrogen to your plants all the way through bloom.
Does anyone here think that the nutritional needs of the plant do not change through its growing cycle? 
Then what would make you think blasting it with nitrogen all the way through bloom is a good thing?
Come on people you need to learn to smell bull shit when you see it.If it does not sound logical it probably isnt..If it sounds logical and has logic behind the opinion or basis of fact..it probably is.


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## Purpsdro420 (Oct 14, 2013)

Go read a couple bare bulb vert grows and then tell me they are inefficient. It's actually one of the easiest was to get 1 gpw and up. When using a reflector , the light from half the bulb must travel up and then back down into the plants. Which is a big waste of light. In a vert setup you drop the bulb directly in the middle which allows light from all sides of the bulb to blast the plant. I think you should go back to the horizontal growing side. As far as nitrogen during flowering I have no problem giving my plants N while flowering but in the last 2-3 weeks you should stop using N and start to lower the amount you feed until the last day or two then jutst use plain water.


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## drekoushranada (Oct 14, 2013)

Well the net round the climate is more controlled and I don't have a leaky hydro system. Like I said it is all about gaining experience from past grows. I am an amateur at growing to say the best. But I will not abandon a growing style because I don't hit 1gpw or whatever. But as far as vertical growing goes I think it is very effective. But all and all I got some awesome smoking OGR White Fire out of the grow!


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## Purpsdro420 (Oct 14, 2013)

As long as your happy that's all that matter bro! It just bugs me when ppl say vert growing is inefficient lol


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## drekoushranada (Oct 14, 2013)

Purpsdro420 said:


> As long as your happy that's all that matter bro! It just bugs me when ppl say vert growing is inefficient lol


I totally understand where you are coming from. I will post some pics tonight to show how I improved from my past grow. You grow and you learn. OAN: I think I have a mutant DNA Limited Snowcap plant. It looks pretty weird. I just cant figure out what is up with it exactly. Lol


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## max420thc (Oct 14, 2013)

Purpsdro420 said:


> Go read a couple bare bulb vert grows and then tell me they are inefficient. It's actually one of the easiest was to get 1 gpw and up. When using a reflector , the light from half the bulb must travel up and then back down into the plants. Which is a big waste of light. In a vert setup you drop the bulb directly in the middle which allows light from all sides of the bulb to blast the plant. I think you should go back to the horizontal growing side. As far as nitrogen during flowering I have no problem giving my plants N while flowering but in the last 2-3 weeks you should stop using N and start to lower the amount you feed until the last day or two then jutst use plain water.


Your not blasting the plant with nothing concentrated a vert bulb.The light in a hood is contained and bounced back with intensity toward the plants.The hoods reflectors are Close to the light Reflecting it back down with diffusion into the plants before the light travels far enough from the bulb to lose its intensity.
So according to your logic, not mine a flood light puts out more light than a focused beam of light?Does that sound right to you?
What it does it put out a arc of light that is not focused or intense.
By your logic german dimple alum with a over the light mirror polished stainless steel reflector that puts out around 95% reflection is losing massive light intensity?
I strongly disagree based on the laws of logic.I would argue that the glass in hoods steal more light and spectrum away than the alum or orca reflector.
I just built a 5ft by 5 ft parabolic hood with a vert bulb in it sitting above my plants in VEG,.No glass of course.I do not like glass.Thats just me.I dont like it because it cuts lumens and spectrum.
What it does is focus a nice diffused light Down into the plants over a large area.It works really well for vegetative plants.
Matter of fact its not too different from your vert grow.
It however does not focus the intensity of the light to make large top colas on TERMINAL stems.Or top colas.
The top cola is where the plant pumps its hormones and water directly too.This is part of the reason why top colas are always preferred to smoke right?They are also the most potent and flavorful,correct?Matter of fact they are so preferred many growers will grow nothing but them.Even if you were to pull your plant over sideways and let the lateral branch's grow up you would be forcing a slowing of vertical growth and growing dozens of top colas being pumped up each and everyone of them with more hormones better light and air to become larger better buds.
A plant does not need even at the start of bloom a N rate over 7 or 8.All you are doing because the plant does not need nor will use that much N after the first two weeks is cause the plant to store it within itself not being used so you can smoke it latter..
Some growers who use dynogrow Bloom add some dynogrow Grow to it in a % so it will be higher in N to grow with.These guys get OK results 
The foilage pro is to high in N.
There are a pile of companys that make a good base nute system for marijuana.They are called Base nutes for a reason.That means they will grow a plant basic.
Almost all of them will have more than enough N to run your plants from start to finish with no problem and a proper draw down at the end of bloom.
It would be difficult to argue that the floor space under the bulb not being used is a efficient use of space.
A unvented bulb with a parabolic hood would allow this space to be used.
Plants under it could be topped into multi colas or pulled over and tied down to make terminal colas out of the side branch's plants around it would be stepped up and topped or tied down probably in this type of grow.It would be a stadium grow i think you would call it.
I get twelve plants under a 1000 watt or a 600 watt in a 5x5 area. How many plants can you fit around your bulb?
A friend of mine uses a 16 plant aero set up in a tent under 1 600.
If a guy built a spiral like a spring..a 6 ft circle spiraling inward like a funnel or a cone to a res located in the center, aero of course with a light hung in the center a guy could probably fit more plants in the same space growing small single cola plants would be ignorant productive.
The first turn of the 6 ft circle would be 6x3.14 or PI.or 18 ft round. 
Has anyone done this?If so how has it worked?
There would be limits as to the type of plant you could grow in it though.


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## budbro18 (Oct 14, 2013)

Purps is right though based on the inverse square law. Every foot light travels its half as intense as the last foot, and so on.

So the distance from the bulb to the reflector and back to the level of the light probably looses a good 50% of its intensity. Even with a 95% reflective surface. Even with a 99.99999% reflective surface it cant stop the distance light travels and the amount of light lost per unit of travel. 

Vert set ups limit the distance from bulb to leaf and turn the whole plant into a center cola because they get a more even dispersion of light from top leaf to bottom leaf.

If your top colas are better tasting and more potent than any other ones on your plant then you got some lighting/nute issues because even the popcorn nugs on my shit are as tasty and potent as the top nugs. Just not as dense.


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## max420thc (Oct 15, 2013)

So your saying the plant does not push its energy to the top and hormones for development through the terminal stem to the top?
Lumens tested from bulbs are 1 ft off of the bulb.The sooner you turn and direct the light the more intense the light will be when it hits the reflector and more intense it is when it bounces off..
I think loosing 50% of the light off of the reflector is complete bull shit.If you hit a reflector with 100K lumens and it reflects back 95K lumens is not a 50% loss of light orca film will reflect 99% and spectrum.Losing lighting a ft off the bulb is reasonable the further away from the bulb the more light it loses.
Matter of fact if you were able to focus a hood or reflector with the right material and magnification of it i would think it would be possible to start a fire with the beam.Just like you can with the sun light and a magnifying glass directing the beam.When you set a fire with sun light and a magnifying lens are you making the sun brighter? Nope.you are just focusing the light to a intense beam.
The same as a 1000 watt bulb has more canopy penetration than a 600 watt bulb.BUT the 600 can be kept closer to the canopy with less heat.(a 1000 still out preforms the 600)
Almost all branch's that produce fluff bud are chopped off to throw the energy to the top colas of my plants grown in a scrog.I only keep the top 1.5 ft of the plant normally. depending on plant.
There are over 100 top colas making a sea of colas in the screen 3 600 watt bulb under super cobra hoods ebb and grow over lapping light pattern.When finished it makes a almost level carpet of top colas.
Ive been around 5 years setting up this one room and am not done yet.There is always something to improve.Nothing is wasted No light is let to escape if i can help it.No air is not utilized NOTHING is wasted.A little ajustment and improvement ..another ..then another. ALL of it may not seem like much but when put together it adds up.
I tell you what, im going to get a light meter..The one i want is rather expensive like 600 bucks.I should be able to take a reading 1.5 ft off the bulbs and see what exactly is going on.Ive been kind of putting off buying one so this gives me another justification to spend more money.
I am looking for a new place to grow and have not purchased one stick of equipment for it yet.
The reason is i dont know what kind of place i can find.More often than not the room itself will dictate to you what style to grow in that is best for the particular situation.
Honestly id like to find something with ten ft ceilings In a basement.


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## Bud Candy Man (Oct 15, 2013)

^^^^^^ Just agree to disagree and go troll somewhere else ^^^^^^


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## budbro18 (Oct 15, 2013)

max420thc said:


> So your saying the plant does not push its energy to the top and hormones for development through the terminal stem to the top?
> 
> I think loosing 50% of the light off of the reflector is complete bull shit.If you hit a reflector with 100K lumens and it reflects back 95K lumens is not a 50% loss of light orca film will reflect 99% and spectrum.Losing lighting a ft off the bulb is reasonable the further away from the bulb the more light it loses.



They do push energy and hormones to the top through the terminal stem but that does not mean that they should be any tastier/potent than branches a few nodes down. Compared to the lowest popcorn nugs there will be some loss in potency maybe but if you keep your light close enough they should be right on par just not as dense. That is the main reason for vert growing so nugs from top to bottom are just as dense as the rest. 

And loosing 50% is a slight over estimation. Its realistically like ~40%. The vert style grow increases the area of your lights dispersion without increasing the foot print. 

And it doesnt matter how reflective a surface is. It is a LAW of science that light loses 50% of its power every foot it travels. Regardless of which direction, what its reflecting off of, how powerful it is, etc... Its not a "law of logic" that you think is true.

So lets break it down into a math problem. If you have a 6" cooltube and the bulb is in the midle of it the light would have to travel roughly 3" to the reflector (depending on the given angle. Then it would have to travel a minimum of 3" back to the same height the bulb is at. So far that a total of 6" of travel so the light has already lost 25% of its original lumens. Now if you let that light travel another 12" to where lumen readings are taken at youve lost another 50% of the already 25% reduced light. Not to mention the 5% loss from the 95% reflector. And lets assume theres a little dust on your reflector and add another 3%-5%. Even without that you are losing a considerable amount of light.

So when you measure with a light meter it wont be proving too much because in a vert configuration at 1 foot away the reading should be the same all the way around the bulb making for a larger surface area than a horizontal set up. Because once you move off center of the horizontal set up you will get a fluctuation in your reading.

Its really simple science. I grow horizontal myself but when someones arguing science the facts need to be laid down.

This says it all really.

View attachment 2858962

There may be points in a horizontal grow where the light is more intense than a vert grow but the average difference in lumens will be much different as well as the average lumens. It should be the same around the whole circle where as the horizontal grow will dramatically drop off the further you get from the middle.


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## max420thc (Oct 15, 2013)

On the third space you have a round grow room but for some reason it doesnt look like who ever done the math subtracted the loss of space in the middle.
Most bulbs are located within two inch's from a mirror polished stainless steel reflector(over the top of the bulb).If it hit the reflector with 100K lumens and lost 1% It would start as the light travels away from the reflector at that point losing lumens as distance increases away from the bulb/reflector.The bulb within 3 inch's of the reflector is being hit harder with more light than the 1 ft lumen rating.So assuming the lumens hitting the reflector with even more force than the rated lumens of the bulbs It still a ft off the reflector where the rated lumens should be measured.
A tester will indicate what the intensity of the light is at and at what distance.It should give me a good idea of the spread of light also.
According to the medical marijuana growers bible(a reference tool for me)Not written in stone.But page 184 says quote:A horizontal lamp yields up to 40% with hood than a lamp burning in vert. position.
To be fair the book also says a vert. grow is One of the most productive gardens per sq ft.
Then on another page it says its junk for flower.That vert bulbs are good for vegetative growth and not flower.
If i were just trying to prove my opinions i would have left those out and not told you about it.
I have a two lamp system set up for nothing but experimenting with.Lamps, hoods, nutes different plants etc. 
If i get a opinion that vert or stadium is more productive.I will have to be shown it though or proven it. Ill set the test system up for a vert stadium.Run it and see what it does.
The cost of setting up a aero 10 ft long by 5 ft wide V made out of 4x4 plastic fence material would work well.Plants spaced one ft apart in it would give me about fifty plants.They would have to be put in from clone.All of the plants would be single cola..short with no side branching.
Is there anyone on here who has a grow similar to this i can look at that is grown correctly?This would give me a general idea before i wasted allot of time.
Another thing i have thought of is a upside down pyramid. The top being a five ft square. It would hold around 20 plants then the next one being a 4 ft square stepped down from it holding around another 16 plants then a 3 ft square holding another 12 plants from there dropping off into a res located in the center of the bottom of the inverted pyramid.


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## budbro18 (Oct 15, 2013)

Even with the bottom unused it has over 2x the area of a standard horizontal grow. Not to mention the light penetrates easier because its coming form the side vs the top.

I understand what youre saying but light loses lumens for all the distance it travels. No matter how small. Regardless of original lumens of the bulb.

I measured my hood and bulb and from center of the bulb to reflector going straight up is just under 3 inches.

I would like to see youre comparison grow though when it you start it up.


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## drekoushranada (Oct 15, 2013)

The ladies are doing well.


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## max420thc (Oct 15, 2013)

Im just running thought through my head about how the best way about doing it would be.
I looked at another vert grow on here. The guy done a nice job in a tent.He also had a few extra LEDs hung above the plant to help out.
The best most effective grows i have seen on here have been grown in a tent.The reason why is they maximize the use of the enviro and waste no light.Even the light several feet from the reflectors still bounce back into the grow.It may not seem like much but it is, and it does make a difference.The orca paper makes a huge difference.You can see the tests for it on youtube if you want.I didnt used to be a big believer in mylar or panda film. I tried it and didnt see much effect.The orca however is a game changer.
I use it to great effect to simulate the light of inside of a tent by putting it on the floor and draping curtains made with it around the sides of the plants and light spread to bounce it back in.
I see a lack of reflective surfaces behind the plants in many of these vert. grows i have been looking at as a large downfall of many of their grows.
They are wasting light by not reflecting it back into the plants from behind that plant.
The gentleman was kind enough to include some of his weights.I know its not a true side by side comparison but even my horrible non productive strains were outproducing his plants.And i have more of them under a lamp.So my current method of growing is out producing his method of growing.From the comments made he is supposed to have one of the best vert grows around.
He was noticing how his plants were not fading at the end of the run and staying dark green.All of his plants were dark green at finish. I didnt say a damn thing.But was very glad he noticed something was not quite right.Also he was running plants into bud over or around 70 days or more.These issues are caused by to much nitrogen.
The logic behind a stadium is sound.You are just utilizing vertical space for plant production that was not utilized before.
By staggering spaces upward you are exposing more surface area of the plant for light exposure.
The three sure ways of increasing production i know of is..more light..more plants or larger plants with larger roots.

This would be cheap and easy to stair case something like this into a stadium.
 
Ebb & Grow 
This is currently the system i use now.Each 55 gallon barrel will support 48 two gallon pods.12 under a lamp.The control buckets are junk for that reason i would not recommend it and would at this time go with a titan.But no major sweat im going to build a custom control center to control 4 systems off of the same timer that will be a good digital electronic timer.With good float switch's.


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## drekoushranada (Oct 22, 2013)

Like I said. You have to learn from the past! These are from today. The bud shots are from different plants in week 4 of flower. The Snowcap strain I have is a mutant. The nodes don't alternate on any branch. It is weird. I shall get some pics up later. Any questions please feel free to ask.


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## drekoushranada (Oct 25, 2013)

I will be hanging up a 600w light today. That should really get the grow room going. My goal is to be able to harvest every 2-3 weeks. I'm sure that the mutant pheno of Snowcap I have will not be grown again.


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## budbro18 (Oct 25, 2013)

I had a plant like that snow cap. I loved it because every clone i took from it was basically already topped because it didnt have alternating nodes. This stopped after the 3rd generation of cloning though.


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## drekoushranada (Oct 25, 2013)

That is interesting. My plant is growing beyond weird. It is the only plant in the room that the pistils are changing color on. I been checking it to see if it hermed on me but I have not seen any balls yet.


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## drekoushranada (Oct 26, 2013)

This is the new set up. I'm going to be adding more panda film to the walls and floor.


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## drekoushranada (Oct 26, 2013)

For some reason the 600w seems a lot brighter than my bare bulb 1000w. I wonder if the cool tube is restricting that much light. I'm going bare bulb on both today. The heat can be used for sure.


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## drekoushranada (Nov 3, 2013)

I will post up some pictures of the new wall of weed set up. The 1000w will be going bare. Something about th the cool tube is just not right to me.


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