# Trichome Color is a Waste of Time



## Sunbiz1 (Oct 12, 2011)

After 6 years of looking at them, some strains do NOT develop opaque or amber.

This is NOT a viable determination of harvest time.


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## jesus of Cannabis (Oct 12, 2011)

yes it is 
just cause you cant see them


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## bigbillyrocka (Oct 12, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> After 6 years of looking at them, some strains do NOT develop opaque or amber.
> 
> This is NOT a viable determination of harvest time.


then, in your opinion, what is? ive read many books myself and they all say the same thing...  not pickin a fight BTW...


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## Sencha (Oct 12, 2011)

get a 100x scope with an led light. ebay $9.00


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## ghb (Oct 12, 2011)

you should be looking at the overall plant, red hairs should be receding into the calyx and the buds should be rock solid. when the plant stops drinking as much and yellows off and some of the trichomes are going brown it is time.


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 12, 2011)

jesus of Cannabis said:


> yes it is
> just cause you cant see them


I have a 60X mag microscope here, not all strains change to determine peak harvest.


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 12, 2011)

ghb said:


> you should be looking at the overall plant, red hairs should be receding into the calyx and the buds should be rock solid. when the plant stops drinking as much and yellows off and some of the trichomes are going brown it is time.


I've already posted this here in other threads. My point is trichs do not determine harvest times.


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## probo24 (Oct 12, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> After 6 years of looking at them, some strains do NOT develop opaque or amber.
> 
> This is NOT a viable determination of harvest time.


I can not help but be swayed by such compelling evidence.
Thank You


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 12, 2011)

bigbillyrocka said:


> then, in your opinion, what is? ive read many books myself and they all say the same thing...  not pickin a fight BTW...


The same as below, red to rust colored pistils receding back, all white pistils no longer producing oils. I cannot go by the old-school amber method...could wait 100 flowering days and not see amber.


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## ghb (Oct 12, 2011)

i think the amber trichome method is for noobs, since my first plant i have retired my microscope and i can tell by glancing at them if they are done.


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## panhead (Oct 12, 2011)

I 100% agree that trichome color is meaningless as when to harvest,many strains will never turn amber,some strains will only show an extremely low number of golden color trichs & those have to be searched high n low for.

I have never used trichomes as an indicator to harvest,i look at new pistil & calyx development as well as bud growth,buds will exibit a 2nd growth spurt at the end of their cycle,once i see new calyx & fresh pistils forming on buds that are at the end of their cycle i then inspect the plants.

Using the plants 2nd growth spurt as an indicator i then look at the pistils,once i see approx 70% of the pistils have turned red i check calyxs,i look for tight calyxs on the bud that have lost their ability to recieve pollen,once i see those things i chop.

The only thing i use a microscope for is to check for mold & mildew,i have hand scopes as well as a powered table top microscope that magnifys from 10x to 10,000x & magnification dont matter,trichome color is the worst indicator to harvest that could be used.

High times has published several articles on this subject,the classic strains of indica & sativa have been altered so much over the last 10 years that some strains will never have golden trichomes,its a genetic issue not a skill issue,some strains wont have golden trichs if you wait 300 days.


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 12, 2011)

panhead said:


> I 100% agree that trichome color is meaningless as when to harvest,many strains will never turn amber,some strains will only show an extremely low number of golden color trichs & those have to be searched high n low for.
> 
> I have never used trichomes as an indicator to harvest,i look at new pistil & calyx development as well as bud growth,buds will exibit a 2nd growth spurt at the end of their cycle,once i see new calyx & fresh pistils forming on buds that are at the end of their cycle i then inspect the plants.
> 
> ...


Thank you, this is what I should have taken the time to post upon starting this thread.


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## MJstudent (Oct 12, 2011)

if you use it right you dont go by 10% amber type shit. you figure out what % of what color trics you like, and then next time your growing your strain, to make sure your not harvesting to early you check to see if they are at the samwe stages as they were preivous harvvest. using 10% amber or 15 or whatever is like saying when your hairs change theyre done. its not science its guesstimating.


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## lioncub (Oct 12, 2011)

the general consensus seems to say: Im right


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## PIPBoy2000 (Oct 12, 2011)

Yellow leaves with the technicolor rainbow tops - that's how I tell.


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## billy4479 (Oct 12, 2011)

i have a couple plants that wont turn amber on the plant but after i cut them hang them in the dark for two weeks and check again once there dry there like 10 /20 percent amber .....


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## dirtysnowball (Oct 12, 2011)

I always use the pistol growth as the ripeness indicator. once the pistols are about 85% orange/red i harvest. people tend to pick early far too often


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## growone (Oct 13, 2011)

i had a plant that had golden yellow trics, but no amber
the trics refused to amber, or even cloud, just turn a golden honey color
drove me a bit crazy, my 1st inside grow, it was a nl#5


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## k0ijn (Oct 13, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> After 6 years of looking at them, some strains do NOT develop opaque or amber.
> 
> This is NOT a viable determination of harvest time.



Which strains are these?
By the way that doesn't really prove anything. 

Anyway, you want to look for 100% milky, you shouldn't look for amber (unless you assume you can only see the maturity by if amber trichs are present).
2 other factors that are widely accepted as a viable maturity check methods are:

Receding pistils (not colours of the pistils)
Swollen calyxes

When you put all those three together you can determine maturity of any strain and know when to harvest.


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## massah (Oct 13, 2011)

TY for passing this information along man...ive been telling people way too much to look for amber trichs...but I usually do tell people all plants/strains/etc are different...just because a plant does it for one person doesn't mean its going to do it for another since of all the variables in genetics and environment, but yet alot of people think that growing marijuana is an exact science(i.e. they always use X amount of water/nutes, they always grow at X speed, are always X size at Y time, etc)...I dunno about you but my tomato plants all look different


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## cb99 (Oct 13, 2011)

Have you determined strains that don't turn amber> Is this more likely to occur inside or outside? I picked some some Pure Afghan (Pure????) from Amsterdam seeds. She is 5/6 weeks into flowering. God knows I'm a newbie, so I'm going to follow what you are saying. She has a huge single cola and I don't want to mess her up.


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 13, 2011)

Hi all,

Hope I didn't sound like a jackass yesterday, sometimes I get frustrated here when the same questions are asked repeatedly. For fun, I bought a new portable microscope from Radio Shack today. It adjusts from 60-100X, only it appears I would have to remove a leaf for examination under it.


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## Brick Top (Oct 13, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> After 6 years of looking at them, some strains do NOT develop opaque or amber.
> 
> This is NOT a viable determination of harvest time.


It is the most accurate way to determine when is the best time to harvest. 

You cannot rely on pistil color to know the best time to harvest since not every strain will have orange/red/brown (or whatever) pistils when it is time to harvest. Some strains, Matanuska Tundra being one, will still have white pistils when the plant is ready to be, and should be, harvested. In cases like that if you wait for pistil color change and or for them to recede you will be harvesting very late, too late in fact if you want quality.

The most knowledgeable, experienced and skilled growers know that going by trichome color is the best way to decide when to harvest.


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## Brick Top (Oct 13, 2011)

cb99 said:


> Have you determined strains that don't turn amber>


Not every strain will follow the clear, milky/cloudy, amber trichome progression that most people assume is all trichomes will do, though most do. Some will begin clear, others a clear-yellow, others a clear-amber and I have seen clear-reddish and clear-purple. In the cases where they do not begin just clear (no coloration) you wait for clouding. They may never change to a different color, they may only cloud. When mostly, or all, cloudy that would equate to a clear trichome that turned milky/cloudy and be a sign that it is time to harvest. If someone waits and waits and waits for a color change that will never occur they will end up harvesting late. 

Far more times that not people will see a clear, milky/cloudy, amber trichome progression. But it will not always happen and when it doesn't happen people need to know to not expect the same signs of when to harvest and know what to look for.


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 13, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> It is the most accurate way to determine when is the best time to harvest.
> 
> You cannot rely on pistil color to know the best time to harvest since not every strain will have orange/red/brown (or whatever) pistils when it is time to harvest. Some strains, Matanuska Tundra being one, will still have white pistils when the plant is ready to be, and should be, harvested. In cases like that if you wait for pistil color change and or for them to recede you will be harvesting very late, too late in fact if you want quality.
> 
> The most knowledgeable, experienced and skilled growers know that going by trichome color is the best way to decide when to harvest.


Yet when pistils turn from orange/red to eventually brown, we know they are no longer producing oil...correct?. And if this the case, then there is some merit to aging. I have read quite a bit on the subject, some prefer earlier harvest for less CBD's etc, I always considered that aspect a grower's choice or preference as opposed to a necessity. I have a sativa here I had to force flower, somehow I screwed up last Spring and mixed up a bean...I have no idea what it is!. It took 17 days to show the first pistil. It is now at day 70, I'm guessing another 3 weeks minimum. That's why I bought the microscope, the other strains I've worked with already so I know when they're done...but not this one.


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## Stonerman Enoch (Oct 13, 2011)

Trichromes...... the food of the future......


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## Brick Top (Oct 13, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> I have read quite a bit on the subject, some prefer earlier harvest for less CBD's etc,


THC, CBD and CBC all begin with the same precursor element, CBGA. Different alleles determine how much CBGA becomes THCA or CBDA or CBCA, (which of course then become THC, CBD and CBC) not age/length of flower, harvesting earlier or later. 

What comes with harvesting later is increased amounts of CBN. CBN is pretty much a waste byproduct of lost/degreaded/oxidized THC. It is only mildly psychoactive and it causes confusion and drowsiness, neither being a true high or a true stone. Sadly, many believe the confusion and drowsiness to be a sign of increased potency and a true couchlock stone so they throw away THC in favor of increased levels of CBN.


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## Keefers26 (Oct 13, 2011)

^^^^^^
nice chart!


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 13, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> THC, CBD and CBC all begin with the same precursor element, CBGA. Different alleles determine how much CBGA becomes THCA or CBDA or CBCA, (which of course then become THC, CBD and CBC) not age/length of flower, harvesting earlier or later.
> 
> What comes with harvesting later is increased amounts of CBN. CBN is pretty much a waste byproduct of lost/degreaded/oxidized THC. It is only mildly psychoactive and it causes confusion and drowsiness, neither being a true high or a true stone. Sadly, many believe the confusion and drowsiness to be a sign of increased potency and a true couchlock stone so they throw away THC in favor of increased levels of CBN.


Thank you for this. I think I may have purchased a microscope that is too powerful. I removed a bud leaf and have it focused in here at 60X. There's a bug on this leaf that cannot be seen with the naked eye, looks like a horror movie or an extra from the remake of King Kong!. 60X is the lowest setting, do I need to exchange this for a 30-40?.


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## Brick Top (Oct 13, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> Thank you for this. I think I may have purchased a microscope that is too powerful. I removed a bud leaf and have it focused in here at 60X. There's a bug on this leaf that cannot be seen with the naked eye, looks like a horror movie or an extra from the remake of King Kong!. 60X is the lowest setting, do I need to exchange this for a 30-40?.



60-100x magnification should be good. That is what I use and it works well for me.


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## sso (Oct 13, 2011)

i just snip off a tiny bud and testsmoke it.

what are colors gonna tell me?

next time around i know exactly when to harvest or even if i should harvest the same plant twice.


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 13, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> 60-100x magnification should be good. That is what I use and it works well for me.


Now I got it, the inversion threw me off...still clear after 70 days.


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## doser (Oct 13, 2011)

ghb said:


> i think the amber trichome method is for noobs, since my first plant i have retired my microscope and i can tell by glancing at them if they are done.


First off, I'm a nooby but I do agree. If you know your plants, then you will know when they change to "ripe". Bassically, I'm looking for "Fall colors".
After that they are just too late. Also, I'm entering the problems that are occurring durring the finish such as budworms and mold into the decision making. If It's now or nothing then I'm cutting and running! I also leave a good portion of bud on the plants to further finish. This time I was blessed with some summer weather to finish the final buds of this harvest.


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## Brick Top (Oct 13, 2011)

doser said:


> First off, I'm a nooby but I do agree. If you know your plants, then you will know when they change to "ripe". Bassically, I'm looking for "Fall colors".


There are those who believe in keeping their plants green right up until harvest. I have seen some breeder information on strains say to get the best results keep the plant green right to the end. If someone believes in keeping plants green or grows a strain where the breeder says for best results keep them green then there will not be any "Fall colors." What would you then use to judge when to harvest? 

There has been enough research and enough written on the subject of trichome color and harvesting and other ways to judge when to harvest and how they are not as accurate as trichome color that there should never be any discussion of it other than to inform noobies. It should be accepted common knowledge. 

Anyone who claims that trichome color is not the best way to judge when to harvest might as well also say that seeing the first light of the morning is not an accurate sign that morning has arrived and a more accurate way to judge when morning has arrived would be when the temperature begins to rise.


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## CR500ROOST (Oct 13, 2011)

the plant is ready when she tells me shes ready


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## Brick Top (Oct 13, 2011)

CR500ROOST said:


> the plant is ready when she tells me shes ready



On behalf of everyone here I would like to thank you for that in depth explanation on how is best to judge the best possible time to harvest.


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## Samwell Seed Well (Oct 13, 2011)

you are simply wrong my friend

get a usb scope that goes to at least 60x with a blue led light on it, not only will you see the tricks go from clear to cloudy to colored, one of the big book of buds goes into it(different terpines and all) but ya it does very based on the color of the bud and and the colors around it just like most human eye perseption

doesnt change the fact that it is and does happen

also the shape of the resin or thc gland is also an indicator of maturity if your eyes are sensitive enough to see the colors

all over the plant are visible indications of how mature it is


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## jesus of Cannabis (Oct 13, 2011)

i like celery

i got drunk 2x going to Japan, 13 hour flight.


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## Brick Top (Oct 13, 2011)

jesus of Cannabis said:


> i like celery



I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.


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## CR500ROOST (Oct 13, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> On behalf of everyone here I would like to thank you for that in depth explanation on how is best to judge the best possible time to harvest.


 no problem


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## Jogro (Oct 14, 2011)

I take a "moderate" position here. Trichomes are definitely not "worthless". To the contrary, they are probably the best SINGLE indicator of ripeness. If you want to go by one thing and nothing else, the majority of the trichomes going from transparent to cloudy is the best signal.

But there are other non-microscopic clues worth looking at too: Calyx swelling/fullness, pistil* coloration change, pistil withering/receding, and yellowing of the upper fan leaves are also all clues that the plant is ripe, or close. 

Again, the exact changes will vary from strain to strain: Some plants pistils will either start off non-white, or simply won't change color from white until its way late. Many plants also won't yellow until its way past peak, plus of course poor nutrition can cause any plant to turn yellow early. You do have to know your strains. 

In my experience, with most plants, its basically not worth it to even start with the microscope until you start seeing the physical maturity changes listed above. Once you know your particular strains well, you can usually determine peak ripeness (or pretty darn close) without a microscope. 

For examining trichromes, personally, I prefer a 40 or 45x loupe. 

They're cheap (you can get one on Ebay for literally under $5), much smaller in overall size than the pocket microscope, require no external focusing, give you a wider field of view than a 60-100x scope so you can look at more trichromes at once, and you don't have to push the objective right up against the plant to see what's going on. 

But its largely a matter of personal preference. The 60-100x microscope has one big advantage of massive magnification, and you can really get a good look at individual trichomes with one. It also lets you focus externally, which might be helpful depending on your particular eyesight. 



* "Pistil" is a part of a female flower. "Pistol" refers to a firearm designed to be operated by one hand.


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## homebrewer (Oct 14, 2011)

75% red hairs and swollen calyxes, those are my signs. I bought a scope a few years back and found that these indicators correspond with trics that are clear-to-cloudy in appearance.


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## dirtysnowball (Oct 14, 2011)

i take test samples for every week of flowering. remember lots of thc = intense but short lived high.

test samples of; 1/2 grams from my 75% sativa:
[email protected]: slightest head change -----30min
[email protected]: slight head change-----------40min
[email protected]: acceptable head change --1hr
[email protected]: good head change -----------1.5hrs
[email protected]: strong head change ----------2hrs
[email protected]: to be determined


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## Beansly (Oct 14, 2011)

Trichomes are a part of the bigger picture you should be looking at, but I agree that saying to harvest based on trichs is to general and shouldn't be given as advice anymore in this day and age. For example, my SSH didn't develop cream white trichs, it went from clear to clear-amber.


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

Upclose tric pics just for the sake of it... 

The focus is shitty on some of them, sorry.


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 14, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> There are those who believe in keeping their plants green right up until harvest. I have seen some breeder information on strains say to get the best results keep the plant green right to the end. If someone believes in keeping plants green or grows a strain where the breeder says for best results keep them green then there will not be any "Fall colors." What would you then use to judge when to harvest?
> 
> There has been enough research and enough written on the subject of trichome color and harvesting and other ways to judge when to harvest and how they are not as accurate as trichome color that there should never be any discussion of it other than to inform noobies. It should be accepted common knowledge.
> 
> Anyone who claims that trichome color is not the best way to judge when to harvest might as well also say that seeing the first light of the morning is not an accurate sign that morning has arrived and a more accurate way to judge when morning has arrived would be when the temperature begins to rise.


https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/465868-jelly-fish-like-leaves.html

That's the stubborn, sativa dominant lady(from a month ago)that is still clear after 10 weeks. Another factor in trich color is genetic quality of the strain. I have a feeling this particular plant is average, since I don't recall where the seed even came from. All I know is it isn't my usual 2 strains. I have heard that those growing "bagseed" never see cloudy let alone amber due to poor genetics.


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 14, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Upclose tric pics just for the sake of it...
> 
> The focus is shitty on some of them, sorry.


Hard to tell by those pics, clear or cloudy?.


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## clouds (Oct 14, 2011)

how can you tell if purple Trichomes are done


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## fdd2blk (Oct 14, 2011)

arguing when to harvest?


noobs.


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 14, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> arguing when to harvest?
> 
> 
> noobs.


Toolbox...........


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## rocknratm (Oct 14, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> Toolbox...........


rabbit.....


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## Brick Top (Oct 14, 2011)

clouds said:


> how can you tell if purple Trichomes are done


The only purple trichomes I have ever had were a clear purple to begin with and when they were cloudy they were ripe. If trichomes begin a clear color, yellow, amber, reddish, purple, whatever else may occur, you go by clouding.


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## Brick Top (Oct 14, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> arguing when to harvest?
> 
> 
> noobs.




Yep. It's just like deja vu all over again!


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## novice11 (Oct 14, 2011)

Actually, it would be a service to all if someone would post a comprehensive link or pictures to describe what you are talking about. Calyxes swelling, pistils retreating, turning red, etc. A picture is worth a thousand words.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 14, 2011)

novice11 said:


> Actually, it would be a service to all if someone would post a comprehensive link or pictures to describe what you are talking about. Calyxes swelling, pistils retreating, turning red, etc. A picture is worth a thousand words.



checkmate, .... https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/28072-harvest-time-tutorial.html


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 14, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> checkmate, .... https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/28072-harvest-time-tutorial.html


I've already seen this thread, outside of the intro posting it doesn't go into much detail.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 14, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> I've already seen this thread, outside of the intro posting it doesn't go into much detail.


do you really need more?

noobs i tell you, noobs. 

keep arguing over stupid shit, it's what this site runs on. 

you've been here 2 and half years. are you seriously STILL confused?


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## fdd2blk (Oct 14, 2011)

just post a pic here - https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/328642-want-know-if-your-plants.html


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## doser (Oct 14, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> do you really need more?
> 
> noobs i tell you, noobs.
> 
> ...


I've been around for close to sixty years and most of the time I'm confused


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 14, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> do you really need more?
> 
> noobs i tell you, noobs.
> 
> ...


Yes, I did...this is what I was looking for:

"Every strain has its own unique window of peak maturity, typically one to two weeks long. However, there is a difference between har vesting early or late within that window, depending on whether you want a head high or a body high.

As cannabis matures the chemistry of the plant changes, as does the type of effects. While these differences in chemical nature still require a lot of research to fully understand, you can utilize them to produce different types of highs for different needs.

By harvesting earlier in the window your buds tend to produce more of a cerebral head high, an effect much more pronounced in Sativas than Indicas."

http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/articles/4822.html

Nobody is arguing here, simply looking for info you don't have.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 14, 2011)

doser said:


> I've been around for close to sixty years and most of the time I'm confused


i am too, i figured out when to harvest.


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## Jogro (Oct 15, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/465868-jelly-fish-like-leaves.html
> I have heard that those growing "bagseed" never see cloudy let alone amber due to poor genetics.


I guess this will depend on what's in your bag, but in my experience this isn't true. 

The Mexican schwagg is (or at least used to be) Sativa-heavy. The trichomes will turn cloudy; it just takes longer than usual for it to happen.


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 15, 2011)

Jogro said:


> I guess this will depend on what's in your bag, but in my experience this isn't true.
> 
> The Mexican schwagg is (or at least used to be) Sativa-heavy. The trichomes will turn cloudy; it just takes longer than usual for it to happen.


I just took another peek at 60X, day 72 and now have about 30% cloudy.


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## mr2shim (Oct 15, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> I just took another peek at 60X, day 72 and now have about 30% cloudy.


Maybe, just maybe you have a strain or a genome that finishes a bit longer. Maybe...


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 15, 2011)

mr2shim said:


> Maybe, just maybe you have a strain or a genome that finishes a bit longer. Maybe...


If that's the case, I'll name it patience

I doubt that plant is anything special, I only saved it b/c she's been a challenge since June...and I like challenges!. I have other indoors that were started and vegged outdoors as well, those always finish behind in-ground outdoor. 

At any rate, change has occurred in said plant in the past 2 days, clear to 30% opaque/cloudy in 48 hours.

Peace!


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## TinyGrow (Oct 16, 2011)

Although a lot of people have their ideals on when to pick nuggets I choose to stand by a saying somebody told me a while ago, your buds are done when they look done. This is a general rule of thumb, but to use it you must have a couple grows experience. My first grow ever was too premature, my second grow was way over done, my third grow was "just right" and now I keep repeating what works. I dont judge by the trics a lot, however, i do check them to see if I am missing something with the naked eye. I like a slight amber coating on my buds, this gives my buds a slightly more "narcotic" feeling high where my back pain subsides and can put me to sleep in one rip. 

The way I look at buds is that my bud is a piece of bread, and the lights are the toaster - I put the bread into the toaster and have to wait 4 months for my toast - Do I keep pulling it out of the toaster and checking every inch of the bread to ensure its golden brown, or do I wait until the bread visably looks golden brown and then take it out of the toaster? Makes sense if you think about it  Although I am SURE many people are going to argue with me. Im not a dispensary grower and dont sell my shit, my way of harvest is for ME not you or anybody else so feel free to object


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 16, 2011)

TinyGrow said:


> Although a lot of people have their ideals on when to pick nuggets I choose to stand by a saying somebody told me a while ago, your buds are done when they look done. This is a general rule of thumb, but to use it you must have a couple grows experience. My first grow ever was too premature, my second grow was way over done, my third grow was "just right" and now I keep repeating what works. I dont judge by the trics a lot, however, i do check them to see if I am missing something with the naked eye. I like a slight amber coating on my buds, this gives my buds a slightly more "narcotic" feeling high where my back pain subsides and can put me to sleep in one rip.
> 
> The way I look at buds is that my bud is a piece of bread, and the lights are the toaster - I put the bread into the toaster and have to wait 4 months for my toast - Do I keep pulling it out of the toaster and checking every inch of the bread to ensure its golden brown, or do I wait until the bread visably looks golden brown and then take it out of the toaster? Makes sense if you think about it  Although I am SURE many people are going to argue with me. Im not a dispensary grower and dont sell my shit, my way of harvest is for ME not you or anybody else so feel free to object


The nice thing about indoor is I have the luxury of checking different portions of the plant daily. I always harvest in stages indoors, generally from the bottom up. Although not always, it seems to be the case that the plant does not finish up all at once. I do the same for in-grounds when I have the opportunity.


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## obijohn (Oct 16, 2011)

I've grown many different strains, and not one had any amber trichs. Early on, I let a few go way too long a few years back, no amber but they were past their prime. Generally speaking, when the trichs are all cloudy and the plant is putting out few, if any trichs is the perfect time to harvest. If you do see amber, they are already starting the decline in potency. After having some solid grows under one's belt, you should be able to tell by general appearance of the buds and the plant if it's ready or not


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## TheOrganic (Oct 16, 2011)

Ive got a sour pheno of querkle that I let go to 10w and was to long compared to 8-9w of a few tops I took. Have clones of her so was testing. Mind though I don't go by weeks though its just a guide line. And the 10w cut trichs were cloudy clear and warped looking with some amber heads.


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## p3ps1c0la (Oct 16, 2011)

good thread. get a lot of good info.


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## meezy4tw (Oct 16, 2011)

isnt there some new study on cbd content and having to do with amber trichs? I swear I heard someone talking about it.


Oh well, I say harvest 30-50% amber while a majority are cloudy. (personal preference.)

HOWEVER, I have noticed that with certain strains, letting them get more amber does help the overall bud in couchlock qualities, such as og kush. If you ask me its better to let your indica strains amber more, and keep your sativas around cloudy when you harvest.

And I do know it to be true that some plants never amber, or get cloudy. But a vast majority of them do.


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## k0ijn (Oct 17, 2011)

meezy4tw said:


> isnt there some new study on cbd content and having to do with amber trichs? I swear I heard someone talking about it.
> 
> 
> Oh well, I say harvest 30-50% amber while a majority are cloudy. (personal preference.)
> ...



I have not heard of one no.
CBD is formed along with THC, although it is minor compared to THC (about 10 to 1).

What is formed when trichomes turn amber is CBN, which is a substances that does affect the high but it's not desirable to have at all.
CBN delivers a drowsy and very weird and unpleasant high.
When you do get a lot of CBN (people who harvest 20% amber - 100% amber) you will get a lot less out of your harvest.
You will lose up to 90% (depending on when you harvest) of the possible achievable effect from the weed (due to losing THC).


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## fdd2blk (Oct 17, 2011)

um, i often smoke weed so i can go to sleep.



you guys are funny.


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## k0ijn (Oct 17, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> um, i often smoke weed so i can go to sleep.
> 
> 
> 
> you guys are funny.



The point is that CBN does not deliver a true stone or high, wether it makes you drowsy or just feel ill.
I don't see drowsy as a desirable high, and especially not on the behalf of losing THC.


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## growone (Oct 17, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> um, i often smoke weed so i can go to sleep.
> 
> 
> 
> you guys are funny.


not every one gets that effect from weed
for me, smoking before bed utterly screws up my sleep
not only does it not help, but makes thing worse
i've seen a good number of posts of others who get the same effect
there may be a few strains that help, but i haven't found them yet


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## Brick Top (Oct 17, 2011)

growone said:


> not every one gets that effect from weed
> for me, smoking before bed utterly screws up my sleep
> not only does it not help, but makes thing worse
> i've seen a good number of posts of others who get the same effect
> there may be a few strains that help, but i haven't found them yet



http://www.medicalmarijuanastrains.com/tag/insomnia-relief/

http://www.medicalmarijuanastrains.com/tag/night-time-use/


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## growone (Oct 17, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> http://www.medicalmarijuanastrains.com/tag/insomnia-relief/
> 
> http://www.medicalmarijuanastrains.com/tag/night-time-use/


i have tried a few that have been touted for sleep, NL for example
for me, they just don't work, everybody has a different chemistry


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## fdd2blk (Oct 17, 2011)

i use weed in place of ambien. i need one or the other. 


i'm not sure what you all are arguing. personally i prefer some of my weed to cause drowsiness. and it does.


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## Ricky Pastille (Oct 18, 2011)

How much does proper curing effect THC/CBN levels? Will THC continue to degrade into CBN after the weed is dry and curing?


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## k0ijn (Oct 18, 2011)

Ricky Pastille said:


> How much does proper curing effect THC/CBN levels? Will THC continue to degrade into CBN after the weed is dry and curing?


That is hard to say because much is still not known fully about how substances within Cannabis interact and produce.
Consensus is that THC will stop degrading after you harvest the plant since you effectively kill the plant and therefore halt it's growth. 

Depending on how you trim and when you trim (some people hang up the plant with stem and all), THC and CBN could still be changing during drying but even though some people say that it might not be entirely true and hard to know until proper studies have been done.


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## Brick Top (Oct 18, 2011)

Ricky Pastille said:


> How much does proper curing effect THC/CBN levels? Will THC continue to degrade into CBN after the weed is dry and curing?


Conclusive research has shown that wet (uncured) marijuana is not fully psychoactive. Before drying, decarboxylation of inactive THCA acid into THC has not yet occurred. During the curing (final drying) process, the COOH bonded to the THC is released. The result is the psychoactive compound delta9 THC. Amounts of THC do not actually increase during the curing process. Non-psychoactive THCA, in part, becomes psychoactive THC. Even then not all THCA has become THC. Heat while being smoked finishes the process of decarboxylation. Harvested cannabis can also be heated to achieve decarboxylation. In either case levels of CBN do not increase much, as long as both are properly performed. 


Will THC continue to degrade and become CNB? Yes, over time THC will continue to degrade and become CBN. Not quickly, not more than minimally during normal proper curing. Heat and light increase the rate of decomposition but over a long enough period of time THC will totally degrade regardless of conditions.


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## PuffinDaWeed (Oct 18, 2011)

Ok now im really confused How do I know if my plant is ready


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## fssalaska (Oct 18, 2011)

Books can make one dumb. I got a friend that grows and is always reading books about growing and his weed is never as good as mine.


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## Brick Top (Oct 18, 2011)

fssalaska said:


> Books can make one dumb. I got a friend that grows and is always reading books about growing and his weed is never as good as mine.


It depends on who wrote a book. If it was written by someone who knows their stuff a book can be of tremendous help. But if written by someone who does not know their stuff, but who is known and knows that if they sound at least half factual their book will sell and they will earn a lot of money, then if that book is accepted by readers as being the God's honest truth that book will hold someone back from becoming the best grower they can be.


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## oHsiN666 (Oct 18, 2011)

if anyone has watched Jorge Cervantes's grow dvd set, he says wait till ALL trichromes HAVE turned amber. and after only harvesting 10 plants, i can tell you that the first chickens i harvested were NOT finished!! and i looked for "the first amber trichs" to harvest. that fucked my shit up bad!!! i have been waiting, each day. i have seen that the CALYXES are actually what tell you when a plant is finished. a lot of strains do not turn amber. i have a plant that i waited til the plants had all amber trichs, and it seemed to be the most finished of all of them. im starting to think that is quit impossible to tell by just looking at the trichs alone. after all the research i did, it did NOT prove helpful. although it was highly appreciated. but the next round, im not harvesting on trichromes alone. but looking for that amber glow the plants seem to exhibit when they are completely finished. if you look at the thread that fddblk has started, if you look at the plants in his first post, the 2 differences you will see is that amber glow im speaking of. check it out, its here in this area. fuck the "harvest at first sign of amber trichs" bullshit!! its for the birds.


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## Mr.GrÃ¸nn (Oct 19, 2011)

Ricky Pastille said:


> How much does proper curing effect THC/CBN levels? Will THC continue to degrade into CBN after the weed is dry and curing?


Yes, and I know this because of experience.
First grow I harvested a little bit early, all thrics were milky, none amber.

After curing, about 2 months, I used the scope again and found PLENTY amber thricomes! 
I figured this must the THC turned CBN (because of oxygen etc).

Anyway, the resulting CBN-heavy buds did NOT give me couchlock stone. It was... sleepy but not in the right way.. it was a boring smoke, and did not last for long.

I guess my jar was not 100% air-tight.

Edit: The high from the plant was great after the drying, before the 2 month cure. So in this case, curing failed.


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## malignant (Oct 19, 2011)

you dont want all amber, you want a blend. 10% amber, mostly milky. if all are amber it went too long and your high will be lame. if its all clear, its premy and it will be underweight, and you high will be a short fizzling out head high. you want right in between.


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## Brick Top (Oct 19, 2011)

oHsiN666 said:


> if anyone has watched Jorge Cervantes's grow dvd set, he says wait till ALL trichromes HAVE turned amber.


George Van Patten, AKA Jorge Cervantes, has been known to be incorrect about a few things over the years so I would not hold him up as the ultimate authority on when is best to harvest.


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## irieie (Oct 19, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> Heat while being smoked finishes the process of decarboxylation. Harvested cannabis can also be heated to achieve decarboxylation. In either case levels of CBN do not increase much, as long as both are properly performed.


 if it is dry enough to burn then wouldnt all the THCA be converted to THC when burned. if this is the case then what would be the point in letting the decarboxylation process occur naturally or inducing it with heat if it is going to be smoked.


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## malignant (Oct 19, 2011)

*George Van Patten, AKA Jorge Cervantes is not infallible.. he is not the all knowing ganja god and is bound to be incorrect about a couple things. you want to end this argument? buy a brix refractometer and go off the peak sugar production for peak ripeness.. takes all guess work out.
*


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## 420forme (Oct 19, 2011)

That's interesting, but how do you know the peak level of each different strain?


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## oHsiN666 (Oct 19, 2011)

yeah and i also know Ed Rosenthal contradicts himself quite often, so i know to NOT always listen. but the 10% amber is bullshit! i had about 6-7 of the plants i have cut down NOT be finished and i chopped at 10% amber. so that statement is not true. maybe it is true with certain strains. i have a Skunk plant that is in her 9th week, and i still hardly see any trichromes, but if you look super close there is some. i would not go by trichrome color at all on a full blooded Sativa. swollen calyxes, and when about 90% of the stigmatas have turned darkened and shriveled up is thee best point to harvest your plants. studies have proven that maximum potency is when that happens. or so i have read. but its very open to debate, as each persona has their own personal preferences. im doing some more at home tests on my plants to see what is best for my strains and my situations.


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## malignant (Oct 19, 2011)

420forme said:


> That's interesting, but how do you know the peak level of each different strain?


you check everyday once your close and you'll see it level off right before it drops.


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## k0ijn (Oct 19, 2011)

420forme said:


> That's interesting, but how do you know the peak level of each different strain?


You watch every plant and judge it on what it shows you.
You need to read a plant to get the real feel of how to tell how mature it is, you can't just follow some fixed guidelines (although they may help you), you need to take under consideration that every strain behaves differently, and every plant can behave differently, due to many variables, most profoundly genetics.


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## Brick Top (Oct 19, 2011)

oHsiN666 said:


> i would not go by trichrome color at all on a full blooded Sativa. swollen calyxes, and when about 90% of the stigmatas have turned darkened and shriveled up is thee best point to harvest your plants. studies have proven that maximum potency is when that happens. or so i have read.


I am very curious as to where you have read what you said above about when to harvest pure sativas? Was it from someone like George Van Patten (AKA Jorge Cervantes)? Was the information found in an actual scientific research study? Or was it the opinion of some in grow forums like this?


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## irieie (Oct 19, 2011)

irieie said:


> if it is dry enough to burn then wouldnt all the THCA be converted to THC when burned. if this is the case then what would be the point in letting the decarboxylation process occur naturally or inducing it with heat if it is going to be smoked.


bricktop, what do you think?


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## oHsiN666 (Oct 19, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> I am very curious as to where you have read what you said above about when to harvest pure sativas? Was it from someone like George Van Patten (AKA Jorge Cervantes)? Was the information found in an actual scientific research study? Or was it the opinion of some in grow forums like this?


can't remember where i exactly read it, but i can tell you i only frequent this forum for growing info. like i said, "or so i have read", don't hold it against me if it is not true. im just going by what people say around here. 

so, is it not true then? 

and if so, would be able to tell a finished Sativa and a finished Indica be the same principal? i figure it would be, but this Skunk i have is not looking anywhere near finished, she was started 1 week before the rest of my plants, and they are all done and finished. she looks as she has about 4-6 weeks left. but im sure its only 2-4. its the oddest thing, i see hardly ANY crystals. no frost, NO TRICHROMES> i don't like!! so, its just an observation. but please fill me in if i am wrong, there is lots of mis-leading, uninformative information on here.


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## 0calli (Oct 19, 2011)

thought id share these since i found this thread very helpful to me
here is my white widow at 60 days


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## malignant (Oct 19, 2011)

beautiful work!


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## 0calli (Oct 19, 2011)

thnk u very much im a newbie to growing but i got the pic side nailed lol


malignant said:


> beautiful work!


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## 0calli (Oct 19, 2011)

looked at some of your threads and the white widow i did these pics with was nirvanna also


malignant said:


> beautiful work!


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 19, 2011)

0calli said:


> thought id share these since i found this thread very helpful to me
> here is my white widow at 60 daysView attachment 1846303View attachment 1846304View attachment 1846305View attachment 1846306View attachment 1846307View attachment 1846308


These are really nice photos. I have a Canon EOS Rebel, no way can I get that close-up. If you have a moment, would love to see how you magnify further and capture.


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## 0calli (Oct 19, 2011)

i made the lense and use my ipod youtube diy macro lense lots of vids how its just dialing it in thats all


Sunbiz1 said:


> These are really nice photos. I have a Canon EOS Rebel, no way can I get that close-up. If you have a moment, would love to see how you magnify further and capture.


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 19, 2011)

0calli said:


> i made the lense and use my ipod youtube diy macro lense lots of vids how its just dialing it in thats all


You made the lens?, I think I'll stick to growing!. Thanks again for sharing.


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## oHsiN666 (Oct 20, 2011)

its not hard. im sure it wont take too much skill or time either. also, ebay sells USB microscope camera. really affordable considering the ones at Radio Shack are a grip! 

TIME TO TRIM!!!


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## Rrog (Oct 20, 2011)

Related to conversation: [FONT=&quot]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/story/2011/10/19/sk-marijuana-genetics-111019.html

Of note is the THC gene which is turned on in our MJ strains, and not turned on in hemp strains. Also interesting that humans were manipulating strains thousands of years ago for better hemp, as a food source, and for the buzzzzz
[/FONT]


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## chasmtz (Oct 20, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> After 6 years of looking at them, some strains do NOT develop opaque or amber.
> 
> This is NOT a viable determination of harvest time.


im not gonna read this whole thread to tell you that you dont know what you are looking for or at.


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## dannyboy602 (Oct 20, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> After 6 years of looking at them, some strains do NOT develop opaque or amber.
> 
> This is NOT a viable determination of harvest time.


...on those strains it is not and you're right in pointing it out. I also don't use a scope anymore. And there are more than a few ways to determine ripeness. If you're waiting on amber you may wind up waiting till the cows come home. I'm finding no one who smokes my shit knows the difference anyway.


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## malignant (Oct 20, 2011)

0calli said:


> thnk u very much im a newbie to growing but i got the pic side nailed lol


 what are you feeding? just curious.
I have in a journal a pic of nirvana misty, and dna rocklock.. i need to post the outdoor pics from the kalichakra.. an amazing strain from mandala. mostly sativa takes up alot of space but oh so worth the 11 week wait.


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## ghb (Oct 20, 2011)

not done








done









no scope needed for telling if this is ready for harvest, these pics were taken from around 8 foot away.

this is what i mean when i say i can "glance" at my plants and see if they are done.


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## malignant (Oct 20, 2011)

very nice setup, are you using co2?


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## Rrog (Oct 20, 2011)

A very informative thread. Great discussions and photos about flower indicators other than trich color. Interesting is the revelation that the amber color is coming from THC degradation. Also interesting the false high given by CBN. Some like it, others don't.


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## Rrog (Oct 20, 2011)

dirtysnowball said:


> i take test samples for every week of flowering. remember lots of thc = intense but short lived high.
> 
> test samples of; 1/2 grams from my 75% sativa:
> [email protected]: slightest head change -----30min
> ...


This is interesting to me. I wonder if we are seeing not only increasing levels of cannabinoids, but maybe a ratio change between THC, CBD and CBC over time


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## sso (Oct 20, 2011)

well, for me, plants flower like this (talking hybrids and indicas,those ive worked with)

flowers appear and in about 5 weeks, they have grown all over the plant.

in the 6th they start filling out, then in the 7th 8th week, the seedpods will swell up. (not always this timeframe, but that exact pattern)

after this swell up, generally nothing happens sizewise and at that moment, the plant is fully mature. (just get heavier stone if you wait)

thats really what i wait for, that last swelling up of the seedpods, after that the pistils just finish dying off along with the stone getting heavier and sleepier.

this is a fairly obvious process in any strain ive seen.

but hey, this is just my experience, im a firm believer in each man doing his thing, doing what suits him best.

after all, if we only had one size in clothing for all, it would be a pretty sucky world for most.


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## ghb (Oct 21, 2011)

malignant said:


> very nice setup, are you using co2?


nah just intake/exhaust, 1600g from 1200w of lights in the middle of summer, for anybody wanting a good commercial strain try dinafem critical+


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 24, 2011)

Day 82(almost 12 weeks)and no change other than buds continued growth...still at 30-40% cloudy. I still have 50% white pistils, so I wait...and wait.


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## k0ijn (Oct 24, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> Day 82(almost 12 weeks)and no change other than buds continued growth...still at 30-40% cloudy. I still have 50% white pistils, so I wait...and wait.



You know you can't judge maturity based on pistil colours right?

Get as close to 100% milky/cloudy trichomes as possible.
Look for swollen calyxes and receding pistils as well.

Those three combined with the overall look of the bud sites (and entire plant) will determine when you should harvest.


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## Rj41 (Oct 24, 2011)

CR500ROOST said:


> the plant is ready when she tells me shes ready


 I'm with you. 
There is just too much over complication and imo needless data being produced for the everyday grower. 

It's a friggin plant. Period. Treat it as a plant and you will have wonderful results.


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 24, 2011)

k0ijn said:


> You know you can't judge maturity based on pistil colours right?
> 
> Get as close to 100% milky/cloudy trichomes as possible.
> Look for swollen calyxes and receding pistils as well.
> ...


That's what I'm doing, and the entire plant is still green...not one hint of a yellow leaf. I figured when it took 17 days to show sex I was in for a long run.


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## k0ijn (Oct 24, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> That's what I'm doing, and the entire plant is still green...not one hint of a yellow leaf. I figured when it took 17 days to show sex I was in for a long run.


17 days to show sex?
Holy shitballs!


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## ghb (Oct 24, 2011)

i want to see this heirloom sativa, any pics?


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 24, 2011)

ghb said:


> i want to see this heirloom sativa, any pics?


I had a thread on it a while back, I'll have to take more pics.

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/465868-jelly-fish-like-leaves.html

The above photo was taken on 9/14.


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## ghb (Oct 24, 2011)

it was the temps that caused the leaf curl, she likes it warm, either that or the ph was off but i'd bet my bottom dollar low temps of a night time caused that.

did it straighten out once she came indoors?. looks extremely sativa dominant, so keep her gren and enjoy the final product


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 24, 2011)

ghb said:


> it was the temps that caused the leaf curl, she likes it warm, either that or the ph was off but i'd bet my bottom dollar low temps of a night time caused that.
> 
> did it straighten out once she came indoors?. looks extremely sativa dominant, so keep her gren and enjoy the final product


The leaves grew in that fashion regardless. She was started indoors for the first 2 months, then moved outside for the entire months of June/July. Then I brought her in to force flower on 8/1. This plant never experienced one cold night. Even the new bud leaf growth points downward....weird.


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## JustAnotherHead (Oct 25, 2011)

I know this is late. I have the same 60-100x pocket microscope. Pain in the ass cause the focus is too stiff and you have to cut shit off to see the trichs. I think i've tried every pocket microscope on the market from $1 all the way up to $60. Then I found this one for $3. http://www.amazon.com/SE-Mini-Brass-Microscope-Illuminator/dp/B002E0MU70/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319523930&sr=8-1

Focus is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much easier. DOF is better, light is better... better better better. Buy it, it will be the best $3 you spend on your grow room.


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## JustAnotherHead (Oct 25, 2011)

Truth. I keep about these swollen calyx and receding hairs. Nobody ever posts pics of a bud before swollen calyx and after swollen calyx. I always see the same damn pic of the three different trichs. LOL One thing for sure it's hard to see the color, clarity, of the trichome ball heads under my HPS. Seems like am seeing "false" cloudy trichs because of the light.


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## JustAnotherHead (Oct 25, 2011)

0calli said:


> thnk u very much im a newbie to growing but i got the pic side nailed lol


Delete, My question was so stupid I want to slap myself.


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## JustAnotherHead (Oct 25, 2011)

ghb said:


> not done
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nope. I can tell your plants need 3.782 days of 12/12.


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## MORE COWBELL (Nov 2, 2011)

thanks briktop


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## Loaded for bud (Dec 6, 2011)

I have to say that on my current grow i was watching very close with a scope and my Trichromes 3 days ago were long with a perfect ball and they looked like crystal and today just looking at my girls I could tell they were ready ! I grabed my loop and spot check my crop and all trichromes are now milky opaque with the tops closer to the lights AMBER! But I will say I could tell just by looking at the girls. Even though im Flushing I am still letting them have sweetner just incase some of the lower flowers want some over the next week. So to look at what your saying Yeah I get it but they do tell the story. I am a fan of Ed Rosenthal, I started my first grow 29 years ago and only within the the last ten years did I start watching the Tri's.............. I love my snow covered girls, every harvest breaks my heart!!!LOL, So yes you can do just fine without watching but ........Lots of people have come up with the Trichrome technique and it does work,
Peace 
Loaded for Bud


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## rpgdude (May 30, 2013)

This is what I know. I started with A white Russian on my first grow. Never would amber. Five seeds and multiple clones over the span of a year and not one amber. Another grower said I must be doing something wrong. Said it was probably my temps or that I grow in coco" he is a 64 year old die hard soil man" so I Gave him a clone to show me how its done. He could not get it to amber, Even after a whopping 15 week try all we got was some giant leafy swag bud. Now same plant all clear at 9 weeks, pistils all orange=2 hits stoned. Every single strain I've tried sense has ambered except that one.


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## Gamberro (May 30, 2013)

Just like with every other science we've tried to overdevelop, the final answer is, "It just depends."

More and more I wish that repeat propagators of certain strains would post their analysis of preferred pH, harvest time, phenos etc in one central area in a uniform method for their particular strain. I think this would improve the cannabis community, there's way too much people blowing smoke up each other's asses.


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## Glenn_Coco (Nov 19, 2015)

I know I'm ressucitating an old thread but is it possible that Blue-Red LED lights don't typically make the trichomes change color like HPS and CFLs would?


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## farmasensist (Nov 19, 2015)

Glenn_Coco said:


> I know I'm ressucitating an old thread but is it possible that Blue-Red LED lights don't typically make the trichomes change color like HPS and CFLs would?



I use blurple LED's and have never seen a trich get past cloudy. What I want to know is if they change the color of the buds? Probably a dumb question but my last crop came out super purple but mostly on the top, the buds under the canopy were still purple but not as much, had more green where it got less light.


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## Glenn_Coco (Nov 19, 2015)

farmasensist said:


> I use blurple LED's and have never seen a trich get past cloudy. What I want to know is if they change the color of the buds? Probably a dumb question but my last crop came out super purple but mostly on the top, the buds under the canopy were still purple but not as much, had more green where it got less light.


I'm really relieved! I have 4 plants under LED 9 weeks from 12-12 and they all have huge bloated buds with swollen calyxed and 3 of them have barely visible retracted pistils, but they all have barely cloudy trichomes. Excuse the light bleaching, they stretched a lot during flowering. So I guess they are ready to harvest?

About purple, well I read that it's the light schedule that can trigger phenotypical characteristics. My two dance world seeds from last grow had purple buds and I used a 10-14 floweing schedule (stupid idea, my yields were pathetic) and on this grow, only one of my dance world plants has purple, and it's a clone from last grow. But DJ short said that using a 11-13 schedule was the best for making purple appear while not harming yields. I'l have to try it next grow.


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## Oregon Gardener (Nov 20, 2015)

Growing new strains is like opening a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get.


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