# Electrical Ques. If I can help someone I will...



## kushmonster (May 17, 2008)

I've been a member here for almost a month now and I see alot of people asking electrical questions...

I've been an Electrician for about 10yrs now so if someone has a question pertaining to electrical or wiring, I'll be happy to help if I can


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## UserFriendly (May 18, 2008)

I hope FloJo knows the voltage of his ballast before he runs any new lines.


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## Clash990 (May 18, 2008)

i heard the electrical bill goes up quite a bit once you start growing.
with one or two 1000 watt lights on at 12 hours a day, how much of a change/increase would it make in the electric bill?


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## Clash990 (May 18, 2008)

never mind, i found it. thanks

BC Hydro - Power Smart for Business - Online Lighting Calculator


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## lylastarr (May 18, 2008)

I have heard that using 220v ballasts is more efficient than the 110v that American households typically support but I never got a good reason why. Do you think there is any truth to that?


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## Ebil (May 18, 2008)

Ok, heres a question for you  I recently set up a 3 light bulb vanity for my closet, clipped the wires of an extension cord, tied those to the vanity, and have it plugged into the timer. My question is, can I take a computer fan, and put the fan wires inbetween the vanity and the extension cord wires? Will it blow, not work, etc?


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## ghengiskhan (May 18, 2008)

A friend told me about a box you hookup to a 240V out that has a 30AMP fuse and puts out 120V (not sure, think he said that) that's suppose to save electricity usage. Does that sound correct at all?

Also, what's the most energy efficient way of running 3 1000 watt lights? 240V? 120V?


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## UserFriendly (May 18, 2008)

lylastarr said:


> I have heard that using 220v ballasts is more efficient than the 110v that American households typically support but I never got a good reason why. Do you think there is any truth to that?


Higher voltage line can handle more voltage drop and still perform without burning anything down. [(120 -> 110) vs. (240 -> 220)]


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## UserFriendly (May 18, 2008)

Ebil said:


> Ok, heres a question for you  I recently set up a 3 light bulb vanity for my closet, clipped the wires of an extension cord, tied those to the vanity, and have it plugged into the timer. My question is, can I take a computer fan, and put the fan wires inbetween the vanity and the extension cord wires? Will it blow, not work, etc?


Computer fans run on DC. It will not work.


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## kushmonster (May 18, 2008)

Ebil said:


> Ok, heres a question for you  I recently set up a 3 light bulb vanity for my closet, clipped the wires of an extension cord, tied those to the vanity, and have it plugged into the timer. My question is, can I take a computer fan, and put the fan wires inbetween the vanity and the extension cord wires? Will it blow, not work, etc?


Sorry guys been pretty busy, OK to answer your question about the computer fan If were on the same page Im assuming your refering to the little blower fans that are inside the towers, those are low voltage here is a thread I found to wire the fan to a cell phone charger, hope it helps

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/48068-diy-wiring-fans.html

after that just use a power strip...


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## UserFriendly (May 18, 2008)

ghengiskhan said:


> A friend told me about a box you hookup to a 240V out that has a 30AMP fuse and puts out 120V (not sure, think he said that) that's suppose to save electricity usage. Does that sound correct at all?


NO!



ghengiskhan said:


> Also, what's the most energy efficient way of running 3 1000 watt lights? 240V? 120V?


240

Higher voltage is always the way to go, not that it will save you money.


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## kushmonster (May 18, 2008)

lylastarr said:


> I have heard that using 220v ballasts is more efficient than the 110v that American households typically support but I never got a good reason why. Do you think there is any truth to that?


its all about amps, 120v will use more amps to pull power, were 240v pulls less amps because of the higher power that is available.


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## kushmonster (May 18, 2008)

UserFriendly said:


> I hope FloJo knows the voltage of his ballast before he runs any new lines.


well if its any kind of ballast I've wired up they are multi tap.


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## UserFriendly (May 18, 2008)

kushmonster said:


> well if its any kind of ballast I've wired up they are multi tap.


It's a 600w Lumatek digital he's talking about, not just any kind, you dig?


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## kushmonster (May 18, 2008)

UserFriendly said:


> It's a 600w Lumatek digital he's talking about, not just any kind, you dig?


Dude when I said multi tap, that means it can be wired either way, all H.I.D lighting that has a seperate ballast, igniter, and compaciter can be wired 120/240 or 120/240/277/480 you dig??


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## SmokenGirl (May 18, 2008)

Thanks for your help electricity Man...ha...setting up my 1st grow room and all I got in the room is one 110v outlet on a light at the ceiling. I want to plug in a 1000 watts hps system/maybe 1-2 fans and 6-8 42 watt cfl's....what do you think? Fire hazard or not?


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## kushmonster (May 18, 2008)

well chances are that the receptical and the light are on the same circuit, If that is the case that is a lot of juice off of one breaker, dont know how many amps a 100hps draws


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## spark1 (May 18, 2008)

Digital ballasts are not multi-tap in the traditional sense.. You can use either the 240v cord or the 120v cord. The higher the voltage,the lower the amperage. Yes, running 240v is cheaper than 120v. Whether you'll be able to see any savings with one light is questionable. The more lights you are using the more you'll save.

SmokenGirl....... If that was a dedicated circuit (only thing on the circuit) you would be ok, but the chances of that are practically nil. More than likely all or at least half your lights are on that circuit.


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## UserFriendly (May 18, 2008)

kushmonster said:


> Dude when I said multi tap, that means it can be wired either way


Why would you be trying to have someone rewire a 120v ballast to run on 240v? Anyway, I'm just making you aware of the specifics; don't get your panties in a bunch.


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## kushmonster (May 18, 2008)

UserFriendly said:


> Why would you be trying to have someone rewire a 120v ballast to run on 240v? Anyway, I'm just making you aware of the specifics; don't get your panties in a bunch.


Who said anything about about wiring a 120v ballast 240v?? and no big deal I dont wear panties, like to free ball


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## kushmonster (May 18, 2008)

spark1 said:


> Digital ballasts are not multi-tap in the traditional sense.. You can use either the 240v cord or the 120v cord. The higher the voltage,the lower the amperage. Yes, running 240v is cheaper than 120v. Whether you'll be able to see any savings with one light is questionable. The more lights you are using the more you'll save.
> 
> SmokenGirl....... If that was a dedicated circuit (only thing on the circuit) you would be ok, but the chances of that are practically nil. More than likely all or at least half your lights are on that circuit.


whats code for residential 10 recepticales per circuit right??(not including kitchen)


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## primeralives (May 18, 2008)

if i attach aligator clips to the end of an extention cord and hook them up to my nipples... will i suffer any long term damage?


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## kushmonster (May 18, 2008)

well pending on where you are, I know Canada is different


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## kushmonster (May 18, 2008)

primeralives said:


> if i attach aligator clips to the end of an extention cord and hook them up to my nipples... will i suffer any long term damage?


No I've been known to do that quite frequently lol


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## UserFriendly (May 18, 2008)

kushmonster said:


> Who said anything about about wiring a 120v ballast 240v?? and no big deal I dont wear panties, like to free ball





kushmonster said:


> Dude when I said multi tap, that means it can be wired either way, all H.I.D lighting that has a seperate ballast, igniter, and compaciter can be wired 120/240 or 120/240/277/480 you dig??


I just want the process to be as trouble-free as it can for FloJo is all. He said he's already bought the ballasts (they're on the way), but there was no question in regards to the voltage of said ballasts.



FLoJo said:


> well im not sure what gauge the wires are, i will be using the lumatek 600w digis, they are on the way. but running them at 120v... 600w/120v is 5 amps per light... 3 lights on the 20 amp circuit is 15 amps, so you say it will trip... however if i could find a way to run them at 240v, like hooking up a 240v outlet with three hookups that would be 2.5 amps per light or 7.5 amps total... right?
> 
> on the 15 amp circuit i still plan on only running one 600w plus all the pups and fans ect..


Do you see what I mean? Don't help this person run a 240v line if he's already bought 120v ballasts............. is all.


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## spark1 (May 18, 2008)

kushmonster said:


> whats code for residential 10 recepticales per circuit right??(not including kitchen)


It's NOT a receptacle circuit. They said it is a light,with a receptacle on it (commonly seen in bathrooms). It is on the lighting circuit.


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## whutsupevry1 (May 18, 2008)

If you have a 400 watt metal halide light ballast and reflector (older crappy one) and I put a hps bulb what will happen?


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## kushmonster (May 19, 2008)

spark1 said:


> It's NOT a receptacle circuit. They said it is a light,with a receptacle on it (commonly seen in bathrooms). It is on the lighting circuit.


Simple misunderstanding, and im sure that I would have been corrected when they read the reply, Im greatful that there is another sparky in the house.... and I know I dont know it all, but it seems like your one of those that do, its cool to put heads together and help people out in here, but dont come in here with the attitude, like some of the guys I have to deal with in my company on an every day basis, you know the guys with 20+ in that act like their shit dont stink, now If that isnt the case "my bad"  Just trying to help people out thats all brother.... And by all means the more people to help the better


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## kushmonster (May 19, 2008)

whutsupevry1 said:


> If you have a 400 watt metal halide light ballast and reflector (older crappy one) and I put a hps bulb what will happen?


Unfourtunatly it will not work, that ballast is strictly for a 400watt MH, I think it has something to do with the filament in the bulb that differs from MH to HPS and Merc. Vapors, they do have conversion ballsts now that will support both bulbs MH/HPS.


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## kushmonster (May 19, 2008)

UserFriendly said:


> I just want the process to be as trouble-free as it can for FloJo is all. He said he's already bought the ballasts (they're on the way), but there was no question in regards to the voltage of said ballasts.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you see what I mean? Don't help this person run a 240v line if he's already bought 120v ballasts............. is all.


OK let try to get beyond this, flo said he is running 3=600w at 5amps each, 15amp total on a 20amp breaker, kinda pushing the envelope, like spark said breakers will handle 80% of their load, which would be 16amps, I really wouldnt be pushing it imo, then he asked about running it 240v so he can lower the amperage...any ballast thats over A certain wattage(250watt I think) can be wired 120v OR 240v, when you start getting into the higer wattage ballasts (400 plus) they also have a multi tap ballast, which means it can be wired either 120v,240v,277v,or 480v


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## smokeh (May 19, 2008)

how do i know or tell that i need to use a ballast? i dont have any equipment yet as im in the process of looking / buying.

i will be buyin 2x150W CFL's 6400k spectrum's for my grow process, and 2x150W CFL's 2700k spectrum for flowering. (these 2 stages are in different 'rooms')

i dont know if id need to control current flow?

any other info on setting up lighting for my 1st grow would be good as well. thanks


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## spark1 (May 19, 2008)

kushmonster said:


> Simple misunderstanding, and im sure that I would have been corrected when they read the reply, Im greatful that there is another sparky in the house.... and *I know I dont know it all, but it seems like your one of those that do*, its cool to put heads together and help people out in here, but *dont come in here with the attitude,* like some of the guys I have to deal with in my company on an every day basis, you know the *guys with 20+ in that act like their shit dont stink*, now If that isnt the case "my bad"  Just trying to help people out thats all brother.... And by all means the more people to help the better


Actually, I have 25+ years in the trade so my shit not only doesn't stink,it absorbs odors like a carbon filter. Sorry if you took offense. It's your thread and I wasn't trying to hijack it.


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## kushmonster (May 19, 2008)

Like I said bro if both of us could help people in here, I have'nt the slightist problem with that in any way, lol on the carbon filter


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## kushmonster (May 19, 2008)

smokeh said:


> how do i know or tell that i need to use a ballast? i dont have any equipment yet as im in the process of looking / buying.
> 
> i will be buyin 2x150W CFL's 6400k spectrum's for my grow process, and 2x150W CFL's 2700k spectrum for flowering. (these 2 stages are in different 'rooms')
> 
> ...


No you dont need a ballst to run CFLS.


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## UserFriendly (May 19, 2008)

kushmonster said:


> OK let try to get beyond this, flo said he is running 3=600w at 5amps each, 15amp total on a 20amp breaker, kinda pushing the envelope, like spark said breakers will handle 80% of their load, which would be 16amps, I really wouldnt be pushing it imo, then he asked about running it 240v so he can lower the amperage...any ballast thats over A certain wattage(250watt I think) can be wired 120v OR 240v, when you start getting into the higer wattage ballasts (400 plus) they also have a multi tap ballast, which means it can be wired either 120v,240v,277v,or 480v


Then why do they sell 120v versions and separate 240v versions? Maybe you could learn a bit about the product before you go preaching its capabilities? 
Google I'm done with you.


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## paddy510 (May 19, 2008)

UserFriendly said:


> Then why do they sell 120v versions and separate 240v versions? Maybe you could learn a bit about the product before you go preaching its capabilities?
> Google I'm done with you.




like kushmonster said, a lot of ballasts have the option to change the voltage by changing where the wires are soldered to the transformer in the ballast.
not everyone knows how to solder and it could be dangerous so they sell 120v and separate 240v versions so you dont have to change where the wires are attached to choose the voltage yourself.
some come with a switch for choosing the voltage.


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## ORECAL (May 19, 2008)

kushmonster said:


> I've been a member here for almost a month now and I see alot of people asking electrical questions...
> 
> I've been an Electrician for about 10yrs now so if someone has a question pertaining to electrical or wiring, I'll be happy to help if I can



I got one......... where do you live? I have so much electrical issues with my house..... lights that don't work but supposedly did when we moved in, just bullshit stuff that I know nothing about....... and need a weed friendly electrician to come take a look at it..........



I know it's not possible........ just venting..... sorry.


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## Ebil (May 19, 2008)

kushmonster said:


> Sorry guys been pretty busy, OK to answer your question about the computer fan If were on the same page Im assuming your refering to the little blower fans that are inside the towers, those are low voltage here is a thread I found to wire the fan to a cell phone charger, hope it helps
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/48068-diy-wiring-fans.html
> 
> after that just use a power strip...


Woah, luckily I have like 4 chargers laying around my room. THANKS!


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## BigBudBalls (May 19, 2008)

smokeh said:


> how do i know or tell that i need to use a ballast? i dont have any equipment yet as im in the process of looking / buying.
> 
> i will be buyin 2x150W CFL's 6400k spectrum's for my grow process, and 2x150W CFL's 2700k spectrum for flowering. (these 2 stages are in different 'rooms')
> 
> ...


Put the plug down slowly and nobody gets hurt.

Go buy a complete lighting setup. Questions like that scare me.

CFL grow? just talk to the idiots at Deep Homo.


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## BigBudBalls (May 19, 2008)

UserFriendly said:


> Then why do they sell 120v versions and separate 240v versions? Maybe you could learn a bit about the product before you go preaching its capabilities?
> Google I'm done with you.


Scarey! I've SO many items that are 120/240 compatible by just plugging them in. Others have a switch. A multi-tap transformer is a *rather* common item.

I have seen *many* multi tap transformers that can handle the voltages he stated. Even ones that can convert Delta to Wye on trip phase.

But since UF says it, it must be true. An item can *only* work on one voltage. No chance of it working on a different with a slight configuration change. (so multi-tap transformers now, poof!!, disappear from the face of the earth.)


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## Ebil (May 19, 2008)

Well, I got to work and tore apart an old computer that has been sitting out back for over 2 years, I'm surprised the fans even work!

I tore out two fans, and got a little help from my dad with wiring one fan into one cell phone charger. All of them happened to be 12 volts..

Careful though, those babies run FAST! Nicked my finger pretty bad 

Attached pictures, if your interested in wiring two up to one charger. They run at the same speed.


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## ganjagoddess (May 20, 2008)

I Just want to post about the argument between the thread OP, and User friendly.

He is talking about digital ballasts... they are something new and special.

The only thing you need to convert a digital ballast from 120v to 240 or vice versa is the manufacturers 240 volt or 120volt power cord, you just swap it out.. that simple...

90% of digis have a microprossers (sorry cant spell) that knows when the power has been switched...

but you still need the different power cord sold by the manufacturer....

Check it out on most any website that sells digi ballast...

or check out lumatek.com

it is all described there, and no Opening the case to resolder anything...

GG


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## kushmonster (May 20, 2008)

BigBudBalls said:


> Scarey! I've SO many items that are 120/240 compatible by just plugging them in. Others have a switch. A multi-tap transformer is a *rather* common item.
> 
> I have seen *many* multi tap transformers that can handle the voltages he stated. Even ones that can convert Delta to Wye on trip phase.
> 
> But since UF says it, it must be true. An item can *only* work on one voltage. No chance of it working on a different with a slight configuration change. (so multi-tap transformers now, poof!!, disappear from the face of the earth.)


LMAO!!!


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## kushmonster (May 20, 2008)

Ebil said:


> Woah, luckily I have like 4 chargers laying around my room. THANKS!


Cool, your on the way!!!


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## kushmonster (May 20, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> I Just want to post about the argument between the thread OP, and User friendly.
> 
> He is talking about digital ballasts... they are something new and special.
> 
> ...


 
Thks GG for clearing the air


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## ganjagoddess (May 20, 2008)

No prob Kushmonster... I like how you made this thread to help others, very noble of you.

I was wondering kM could you "help", "walk-me through", adding two 20 amps fuses to power outlets in my house... I am a little worried there is something Im gonna miss....

Like can I just setup the outlet (GFCI) with appropiate guage wire (20 amp) run that through the basement floor to the main circut breaker ( I HAVE ROOM in there for both 20 amps)then dissconnect the main breaker (2X 200AMPS) hook the wires for my new outlet into two new 20 amp breakers then Break out two new spaces on the outside board, unscrew the cover and slot them into place...

Turn back on main breaker switches...

DO I need to use conduit?
What is the CODE for stapling the wire every X inches?
Any reccomendations?

Oh and Dressing wires??? Confused as to what that really means, all I can gather is you loop em around the Inside of the box once.?

THanks


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## headbandrocker (May 20, 2008)

Hello,I have a question for you might be able to help me figure it out.I am running 3 1k lights all 12ov and had my comcast cable {runs by my panel} melt.I was told i have 32o amp service and the cable guy came out and said somthing to the effect of the power in the house jumped onto the cable line,and that cable cannot handle that much electricity so it melted.I noticed that my lights will flicker in the house in general,like my kitchen lights go brighter when i run the microwave,orlights dim when i run the vaccume.cable guy told me to call pg&e and have them come check the drop etc,but i wanted to ask a grow friendly electrician first,the house is only 2o yrs old.Any advice/help would be arsome,thanks hb


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## BigBudBalls (May 20, 2008)

headbandrocker said:


> Hello,I have a question for you might be able to help me figure it out.I am running 3 1k lights all 12ov and had my comcast cable {runs by my panel} melt.I was told i have 32o amp service and the cable guy came out and said somthing to the effect of the power in the house jumped onto the cable line,and that cable cannot handle that much electricity so it melted.I noticed that my lights will flicker in the house in general,like my kitchen lights go brighter when i run the microwave,orlights dim when i run the vaccume.cable guy told me to call pg&e and have them come check the drop etc,but i wanted to ask a grow friendly electrician first,the house is only 2o yrs old.Any advice/help would be arsome,thanks hb



You can get some induction. Sounds a bit fishy to me. Typically data (like cable tv) should be run perpendicular to the power lines, never along side.

320amp service? dang.


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## kushmonster (May 20, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> No prob Kushmonster... I like how you made this thread to help others, very noble of you.
> 
> I was wondering kM could you "help", "walk-me through", adding two 20 amps fuses to power outlets in my house... I am a little worried there is something Im gonna miss....
> 
> ...


 OK u want to add 2 new gfi recepticales to exsisting electrical boxes??, or run new conduit/romex back to your main panel, when you say running conduit, thats new construction tearing holes in the walls your opening up a can of worms. If you have existing recepticals in the room you can pull an extra line in each box. Usually houses have 14awg solid wire but depending on where you are US? Canada? Euro? North US where cold you have to run wire through 1/2 in EMT conduit. South US, warmer weather it's Romex wire. I need you to be more specific, How close to the breaker box are you? is the receptical you want to use tied into anything else ie. another light, outlet ect.


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## kushmonster (May 20, 2008)

headbandrocker said:


> Hello,I have a question for you might be able to help me figure it out.I am running 3 1k lights all 12ov and had my comcast cable {runs by my panel} melt.I was told i have 32o amp service and the cable guy came out and said somthing to the effect of the power in the house jumped onto the cable line,and that cable cannot handle that much electricity so it melted.I noticed that my lights will flicker in the house in general,like my kitchen lights go brighter when i run the microwave,orlights dim when i run the vaccume.cable guy told me to call pg&e and have them come check the drop etc,but i wanted to ask a grow friendly electrician first,the house is only 2o yrs old.Any advice/help would be arsome,thanks hb


Cant understand how that would even be possible with the cable, that has nothing to do with your main panel.... plus its a digital communication cable, im baffled about that one!! as far as lights going dim when certain appliances are on is because there are to many things on that circuit, (outlets, lights ) and your getting like a surge of power, yeah those kinda things should absolutely not be happening to a 2 year old house,!! please call someone to have that checked immediately before something else happens


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## 420EVERYDAY (May 20, 2008)

electrical ballasts just lights youre lamps full power faster it does save you electricity plus usa gets billed by killowatts not voltage


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## ganjagoddess (May 21, 2008)

kushmonster said:


> OK u want to add 2 new gfi recepticales to exsisting electrical boxes??, or run new conduit/romex back to your main panel, when you say running conduit, thats new construction tearing holes in the walls your opening up a can of worms. If you have existing recepticals in the room you can pull an extra line in each box. Usually houses have 14awg solid wire but depending on where you are US? Canada? Euro? North US where cold you have to run wire through 1/2 in EMT conduit. South US, warmer weather it's Romex wire. I need you to be more specific, How close to the breaker box are you? is the receptical you want to use tied into anything else ie. another light, outlet ect.


Let me clarify big time...

I have no outlets in my basement at all.

I want to add two new GFCI outlets to my basement specifically for my grow

My main breaker is outside the house.

I am running three 1000 watt lights plus accesories.

I want each outlet to be rated for 20 amps.

I have space for two 20 amp BREAKERS in the main box (sorry I said fuses in the first post)

Is it as simple as 20 amps breaker to 20 amp wire into basement to GFCI outlet?


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## kushmonster (May 21, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Let me clarify big time...
> 
> I have no outlets in my basement at all.
> 
> ...


Yes you would have to run 20 amp rated wire which is 14awg or 12awg, imo I would go 12,


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## Pete Moss (May 21, 2008)

14g wire is rated at 15amps--12g is definitely better but realistically you can only run one 1000w fixture on a 20amp circuit...one 1k fixture will draw somewhere south of 10amps at 120v so 2 would be in the 18amp range which would push a 20amp breaker past its 80% rating, pushing it for sure. A better way to go would be to run a single 12g home run for each 1k fixture or run 2 10g(30amp rated=30amp breakers) circuits. If you do want run the 3 12g circuits but you only have 2 spaces in your panel you might be able to get twin breakers where 2 breakers fit in the space of one...personally I like the 10g/30amp setup with cr20 receps instead of the standard 15a receps..ya just can't be too safe with this stuff, IMHO.


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## ganjagoddess (May 21, 2008)

Ya 3 1000 watt lights maybe plan to go to four, so 30 ampers it is then huh.

I will plug two into one and one and all the rest of stuff(ventilation, ect) into the other.

But What is a cr20 receps, I see it has a little tEE on it, but will this 125volt rated receptecle allow me to still plug in a standard power cord..?

Thank so much for helping, oh and at 30 amps what AWG wire to use?


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## Pete Moss (May 21, 2008)

Hi GG, the cr20 receps are just a heavier duty receptacle, still rated for 125v, just rated for 20amps instead of 15...costs a little bit more but you get what you pay for I guess...you can still plug in any standard power cord. At 30 amps you have to run 10g wire...with copper prices being what they are now, this will be quite a bit more expensive than the 12g but well worth it I think...it's also a bit harder to work with...I also advise NOT using the push in connections on the receps but side-wiring with the screws, making sure you wrap the wire in a clockwise rotation so that when you tighten the screw it isn't trying to loosen the wire. Sorry for rambling on, is that too much information? Just want everybody to be safe.


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## ganjagoddess (May 21, 2008)

Thanks Pete Moss, Ya that was really helpful!!

one other ? for you guys, 

Off of each of my 30 amp breakers I have to wire two 20 amp receps right.

Since the receps are only wired for 20 right?

thanks for your help


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## FullMetalJacket (May 21, 2008)

Kush and PeteMoss, know anything or had experience with thermoelctic devices. I started a thread with some idea...I could really use your expert knowledge/opinions.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/75109-thermoelectric-devices-need-input-please.html

TY


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## 420EVERYDAY (May 21, 2008)

i meant to say electrical ballasts DOES NOT save you money on youre electric bill


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## TetraHyC (May 21, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> I Just want to post about the argument between the thread OP, and User friendly.
> 
> He is talking about digital ballasts... they are something new and special.
> 
> ...


I don't understand lumatek ballasts are single voltage 120 OR 240 for better performance.
Look here.
Lumatek Digital Ballastss


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## Pete Moss (May 22, 2008)

FMJ--never really dealt with thermoelectric devices so can't help ya--sorry...I'm from the KISS school--Keep It Simple Stoopid..

Ganjagoddess, in looking over these posts I just realized that you are gonna protect everything with GFCI so ferget what I said about the cr20s, those are just regular receps. What you want are leviton 7899s--a 20amp GFCI recep. You could put one of those at the start of the run, making sure to put the black and white incoming wires on the 'line' side and the black and white outgoing wires on the 'load' side, and then use the regular cr20s downstream from the GFCI, and that will make all the downstream receps protected by that first one in the stream. It's fine to run more than one recep on each circuit as long as you make sure you don't go over about 24 amps total on the circuit. On all the downstream stuff I would do 'pigtail' wiring where you take the incoming black, the outgoing black, and a 6" pigtail and put them together in a red wire nut and then use that pigtail for that recep, doing the same with the white wires. Just make sure everything is tight--looseness is what causes fires. Good luck and be safe! Especially when you go to hooking it all up in the panel--find the breaker that controls that and turn it off before putting your hands(or any other part!) in there. Everybody should have a cheap little device called a voltage tic that is just a plastic pen-looking device that will tell you if a wire is hot or not with a beeper and light just by touching the wire, insulation still on or not.


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## ganjagoddess (May 22, 2008)

fuck yes pete moss, you just gave my final piece of knowledge that need.. thank you so much.... love this thread


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## CustomHydro (May 30, 2008)

I was wondering if I can just pop a 30 amp breaker in to take the place of a 15 amp breaker? If not, what can I do to boost the amps.... I live in an upper duplex, so no thrashing walls or big construction jobs... I just need some more power


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## ganjagoddess (May 30, 2008)

DONT DO THAT!!! the wiring will melt when overloaded and not tripping the 15 amp breaker that was replaced by a 30.

FIRE!!!!


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## kushmonster (May 31, 2008)

As GG just said that wiring thats tied to that 15amp breaker is to small of wire(14awg solid probably) to handle the power provided by the 30amp breaker, you would have to run thicker wire, number 10wire(10awg) would be the only solution to your problem


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## bcurwi1 (May 31, 2008)

Hey kushmonster I am using using 2 utility lamps with a light bulb splitter and using two 45 watt bulbs making about 150 watts, (2 lamps of 2 bulbs) and was thinking about getting two more setups for the flowering stage do you think that this would be two much or should i save up for a high power (HPS) or something.....is there another setup i could do thats cheap other than CFL's...suggestions??


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## ganjagoddess (May 31, 2008)

OH YES, try t8 flourescents 

Go to home depot, find the light fixture called the shoplight for $8.32 it holds 2 4' t8 light bulbs.

GET 5 of these

then get a 10 pack of the t8 6500k or 5000k daylight t8 bulbs for $30.

Viola $75 a massive veggin light.


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## dvsmoi6 (Jun 2, 2008)

I have a closet i plan to move my plants in. its a simple 29inch by 24inch by 8ft high. With now outlest in the closet i need to find out how do i put more than one florescent bulb ?

Should i just go buy some crappy lamp with three bulbs hanging out? u know, the "Tree" style. Please help me out on this one. i eventually plan on making a hydro set, but that'll be my third grow. or maybe on my second, which is going to be with HID's. Please help! i just wanna smoke my own sht !  i bet it feels awsome.





kushmonster said:


> I've been a member here for almost a month now and I see alot of people asking electrical questions...
> 
> I've been an Electrician for about 10yrs now so if someone has a question pertaining to electrical or wiring, I'll be happy to help if I can


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## zeke907 (Jun 2, 2008)

Just wondering If I can plug two 400w lights into the same power strip without any negative consequences??? I mean if an outlet can handle a single thousand watt light, wouldn't it be safe to say it could hold two 400's? Any reply or answer will be greatly appreciated. Please and thanks.


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## kushmonster (Jun 2, 2008)

dvsmoi6 said:


> I have a closet i plan to move my plants in. its a simple 29inch by 24inch by 8ft high. With now outlest in the closet i need to find out how do i put more than one florescent bulb ?
> 
> Should i just go buy some crappy lamp with three bulbs hanging out? u know, the "Tree" style. Please help me out on this one. i eventually plan on making a hydro set, but that'll be my third grow. or maybe on my second, which is going to be with HID's. Please help! i just wanna smoke my own sht !  i bet it feels awsome.


So you have only 1 exsisting light in that closet, well you can either remove the bulb and put in A base plug, that is a plug that screws in like a lightbulb but has 1 recepticale at the end so you can convert your light socket into a recepticale. Or you can disconnect the light from the power(make sure power is off first),take a measurment from light to the wall, then down the wall about a foot above the floor, with that measurment,(probably about 12') go and buy 3wire(hot, nuetral, ground) 12gauge romex from HD or Lowes, A standard single gang box and a 20amp GFI recepticale, and cable clips(for mounting romex). Strip wires and color match romex wire to the old light wires, (white to white, blk to blk, green to green)Mount the romex onto wall, at the other end mount single gang box to wall feed romex into box and hook up GFI recepticale accordingly, now you have a recepticale that you can plug lighting into



zeke907 said:


> Just wondering If I can plug two 400w lights into the same power strip without any negative consequences??? I mean if an outlet can handle a single thousand watt light, wouldn't it be safe to say it could hold two 400's? Any reply or answer will be greatly appreciated. Please and thanks.


 What size circuit breaker?? what else is on that circuit?? 2 400watt tansformers are gonna draw more amps then 1 1000watt ballast, what you can do is plug everything in(let it run for about an hour) and see if it trips the breaker, if thats the case I would try and have each one on a seperate circuit


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## zeke907 (Jun 2, 2008)

Not sure what size circuit breaker. I am guessing 15A, I live in a house. The only things I have running in that room are the lights, and the fans. I have a 16 oscillating fan, and a 10 inch fan, and the 400 W MH, and was gonna hook up the 400W HPS as well, but didnt wanna short the circuit or do any other damage unnecassarily. Thanks for the response KUSH. How do I find out what size circuit? Trip the breaker meaning it will shut off correct? As like a surge protector or what have you? Also when you say separate circuit, do you mean just another plug in the same room?


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 2, 2008)

At 120 Volts
400 watt = 4.0 amps
430 watt = 5.2 amps
600 watt = 5.5 amps
1000 watt = 9.5 amps 

At 240 volts
400 watt = 2.0 amps
430 watt = 2.6 amps
600 watt = 2.9 amps
1000 watt = 4.8 amps

He should be fine to run the two 400's and fans off the room.


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## CustomHydro (Jun 2, 2008)

Can I branch off before the stove's outlet. I want to share the lights with the stove's breaker. The breaker for the stove says 40amps I'm running around 2600 watts in lights at the most... Im thinking this may be the only option...


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 2, 2008)

You can BUT, your stove outlet runs on 240v, your lights are set up for 120v, you HAVE to change this on your lights, which is very simple if your lights are magnetic ballasts.


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 3, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> You can BUT, your stove outlet runs on 240v, your lights are set up for 120v, you HAVE to change this on your lights, which is very simple if your lights are magnetic ballasts.


Don't *have* use the 240, you can just use a single 120 leg (240 is 2 phase. 2 120 lines that are 180 degree out of phase)

But I'd go the 240 ballast adjustment. Keep the load in balance.


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## nickfury510 (Jun 3, 2008)

kushmonster said:


> As GG just said that wiring thats tied to that 15amp breaker is to small of wire(14awg solid probably) to handle the power provided by the 30amp breaker, you would have to run thicker wire, number 10wire(10awg) would be the only solution to your problem


what about going from 15a to 20a....i believe my house is wired on 12guage, my dad is an electrition and rewired half the house when it was under remodel...unfortenatley i cant just ask him..i have 20a non dedicated in the bathrooms and kitchen...but would like to bump one of the bedrooms to 20a


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 3, 2008)

No I highly highly doubt that he used 12 awg and hooked it up to 15 amps, electricians do not do that. You cannot just swap out breakers and say Okey Dokey, you would need to run all new 12 gauge wire for 20 amps, and 10 guage for 30 amps.

Both 20 and 30 come in 120v version breakers.


Also A 20 amp breaker cannot POWER (2) 1000 watt lights.

the 20 amp breaker will trip past 17 amps.

So if that is what you are trying to accomplish here you are going to burn your house down.

Yeas I know it is really hard to get electricity set up appropiatly but it is viable and possible.


When I had a apartment what we did was disconnect the stove, turn of the main breaker.

Unscrewed the stove plug, installed a Junction box, splice on a extra length of about 20 feet of 10awg, ran it to the bedroom under the carpet as best as possible, and set up a subpanel from that feeding out 15 amp lines around the grow room.

Yeah you get no stove but you get a solid 50 amps to pull on for anything you could want.


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 3, 2008)

Well put. I ran 10 Gauge to my compressor/welder (switchable out let that can only allow one device to operate at a time) on a 20amp breaker. (but I'm not an electrician, I care a bit more, its *my* house.) Copper is *expensive* these days, (and for the last few years) Going over spec just isn't done.

He's NOT going to burn his house down The breaker (which is UL/CSA listed, and UL/CSA is the insurance company for the breaker) The breaker will trip. The concept of a breaker is to PROTECT THE WIRING, hence, reduce chances of a fire. Breakers can't trip an indefinite amount of times. They get weak. They are a combo of therm and magnetic. Thermal gives out faster after numerous trips.



ganjagoddess said:


> No I highly highly doubt that he used 12 awg and hooked it up to 15 amps, electricians do not do that. You cannot just swap out breakers and say Okey Dokey, you would need to run all new 12 gauge wire for 20 amps, and 10 guage for 30 amps.
> 
> Both 20 and 30 come in 120v version breakers.
> 
> ...


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 3, 2008)

If you have a 15 amp breaker wired with 14 awg

and you just switch it for a 20 amp breaker, then overload it.

It could cause the wiring to melt, and start a fire.

Growrrom Leccy is a vary serious biz, and needs to be treated with the utmost caution,


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 3, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> If you have a 15 amp breaker wired with 14 awg
> 
> and you just switch it for a 20 amp breaker, then overload it.
> 
> ...



Yes it WILL overload it. But *THATS* the job of the breaker; to protect the wiring. If the wires still fail, sue UL/CSA since they have put their 'ok' on it. Thats what they do and why they are there.

And melt the wire? Thats actually not likely. What happens is that the wire gets hot, and melts the insulation. Europe is good about using a smaller gauge wire and higher temp insulation. (now melted insulation is just as dangerous, but the insulation melting is way behind a breaker tripping.)

Breakers do NOT protect the device, just the wiring to said device.

Still no reason to wire it up incorrectly. 
I wasn't going that route. Just saying that he wouldn't burn his house down. He'd trip a breaker. Repeatedly.


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## nickfury510 (Jun 3, 2008)

ok.so again........my house is wired on 12 guage wire.....(the yellow insulated that says 12-2 on the insulation).....can i switch out a 15a breaker for a 20a breaker....no disrespect gg..but if you are not an electrician..you should not be given out electrical advice....and im not trying to run 2 1000w setups....im actually only going to be pulling 11-12a.....i just dont want to over load.....and bigbudballs is right....the breaker will pop before any fire starts....


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 3, 2008)

nickfury510 said:


> ok.so again........my house is wired on 12 guage wire.....(the yellow insulated that says 12-2 on the insulation).....can i switch out a 15a breaker for a 20a breaker....no disrespect gg..but if you are not an electrician..you should not be given out electrical advice....and im not trying to run 2 1000w setups....im actually only going to be pulling 11-12a.....i just dont want to over load.....and bigbudballs is right....the breaker will pop before any fire starts....


No GG *is* right. It needs to be wired correctly. Tripped breakers deliver ZERO light.

As to the 11-12 amps on the 15A outlet. you gotta see what else is on that breaker.

In rush current vs running currents are different. and different for inductive vs resistive loads.

Turn off the breaker and test every outlet and wall switch for every adjacent rooms.

Putting in a 20A breaker in a 15A wiring is violation of NEC code. (and your house insurance won't cover it)


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## nickfury510 (Jun 3, 2008)

BigBudBalls said:


> *No GG *is* right. It needs to be wired correctly. Tripped breakers deliver ZERO light.*
> 
> *As to the 11-12 amps on the 15A outlet. you gotta see what else is on that breaker.*
> 
> ...


im sorry..i just cant take electrical advice from someone who is on another thread asking electrical questions...sorry but my common sense wont allow it....

ive locked down the circuit i want to use...like i said...i will ony be pulling about 11-12a....im building a small closet grow running 2 150w hps...1 s&p 150 rated at 290cfm. and a couple small fans.....i just want to have a little leg room for adding if i need to

please explain rush-v- current and inductive -v- restrictive.

thats what im saying....i have a 15a breaker that has 12-2 yellow insulated wiring running to it...so running 20a from 12g should be ok....no


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 3, 2008)

In rush vs running current. Think abot it like a car. you use a lot more gas to go 1/2 mile from a red light then 1/2 mile while running at 50mph.

The turn on can take a lot of instant current. Have you seen fast blow and slow blow fuses? The slow blow are there for items that need a little extra humph to start up.

A resistive load would be say a standard light bulb. Just a thin wire in, all honesty, a short.

An inductive load is more like a motor where you need to create a magnetic field and induct that energy into another coil. 

A HPS/MH ballast/light can be a merger of the two, but most likely are seen by the house wiring as inductive.

Oh Damn!!! 2 150W HPS and a few other items? Don't sweat it, roll.
I have the same set up on a standard outlet with *zero* probs.
(I've even grabbed single conductor wires to see if they are getting warm. Nice and cool) I don't think you are pulling that much. 

Think about it, the 2 150's are pulling about 330W. The fan? 40-80W. You can plug in a 1500W hair drier no prob, can't ya?




nickfury510 said:


> im sorry..i just cant take electrical advice from someone who is on another thread asking electrical questions...sorry but my common sense wont allow it....
> 
> ive locked down the circuit i want to use...like i said...i will ony be pulling about 11-12a....im building a small closet grow running 2 150w hps...1 s&p 150 rated at 290cfm. and a couple small fans.....i just want to have a little leg room for adding if i need to
> 
> ...


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## nickfury510 (Jun 3, 2008)

BigBudBalls said:


> In rush vs running current. Think abot it like a car. you use a lot more gas to go 1/2 mile from a red light then 1/2 mile while running at 50mph.
> 
> The turn on can take a lot of instant current. Have you seen fast blow and slow blow fuses? The slow blow are there for items that need a little extra humph to start up.
> 
> ...


lol......yeah a hair dryer is no problem....the only thing that worried me was the vent fan....i cant find anything that will give me the amp rating for it...im just being overly cautious...the fucked up thing is im in the building trades and hold ca.licenses in specific trades....i just never picked up electrical...its fuckin lame because my dad is an awesome electritian and its my fuckin kryptonite...i can build almost anything and plumb it and water/wheatherproof it....i just cant fuckin wire it....



also..great explanation of the currents and loads...+rep


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 3, 2008)

If the fan has a watt rating, just divide the watts by the volts.

Wiring tough? Nah its easy. Gotta think of it like water. Need and in and out. Restrict the out and flow goes down. but also need a pipe strong enough to handle the pressure 

Volts is pressure amps is volume




nickfury510 said:


> lol......yeah a hair dryer is no problem....the only thing that worried me was the vent fan....i cant find anything that will give me the amp rating for it...im just being overly cautious...the fucked up thing is im in the building trades and hold ca.licenses in specific trades....i just never picked up electrical...its fuckin lame because my dad is an awesome electritian and its my fuckin kryptonite...i can build almost anything and plumb it and water/wheatherproof it....i just cant fuckin wire it....
> 
> 
> 
> also..great explanation of the currents and loads...+rep


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 3, 2008)

I may be asking questions in the other thread, but I just wired a Subpanel, and Feel I have gained enough knowledge about how wiring works.

Would like to know where and what I said wrong, if you dont mind.


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## nickfury510 (Jun 3, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> I may be asking questions in the other thread, but I just wired a Subpanel, and Feel I have gained enough knowledge about how wiring works.
> 
> Would like to know where and what I said wrong, if you dont mind.


like i said..no disrespect...but wiring 1 subpanel does not make you qualified to give electrical advice...i removed an engine from a car once...that doesnt make me a mehcanic..let alone enough knowledge to give someone technical info about cars....you were wrong on this thread when you said you doubt that an electrician would run 12g to 15a...i just opened my pannel and guess what....12g running to 15a breakers....
Im not trying to be an ass here in any way at all...and you are free to post how and when you like..im just saying that i would rather get my info from someone who knows enough about something to make a living at it...


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 3, 2008)

whatever dude.


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## southfloridasean (Jun 5, 2008)

UserFriendly said:


> Then why do they sell 120v versions and separate 240v versions? Maybe you could learn a bit about the product before you go preaching its capabilities?
> Google I'm done with you.



Why must you endlessly try to talk to people like their shit? You've done it like three times in this one thread. If you know so much start your own fucking Electrician journal & answer everyones questions. Have you ever asked yourself the question that maybe the guy (electrician) probably feels like the ballast is dual voltage 120~240V?

They make them like that now a days. So, the moral of the story is before you start your rants instead of sounding like a sarcastic prick who probably weighs a buck twenty soaking wet kindly ask the man what he really meant to say or suggest to him & in a polite way that he could be wrong.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 5, 2008)

Digital Ballasts come in a variety of flavors apparently.

Some Are only set for either 120v or 240v and cant be rewired.
Some are set for 120v or 240v and are able to switch back and forth by changing only the power cord.
Some Dont need anything done to them and can swithc back an forth with nothing needed.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 5, 2008)

nickfury510 said:


> like i said..no disrespect...but wiring 1 subpanel does not make you qualified to give electrical advice...i removed an engine from a car once...that doesnt make me a mehcanic..let alone enough knowledge to give someone technical info about cars....you were wrong on this thread when you said you doubt that an electrician would run 12g to 15a...i just opened my pannel and guess what....12g running to 15a breakers....
> Im not trying to be an ass here in any way at all...and you are free to post how and when you like..im just saying that i would rather get my info from someone who knows enough about something to make a living at it...



So just switch it out, and quite being a smart ass to me for trying to help people.

Nothing I have said here is wrong, It is even good that we all speculated YOU were wrong about your dad using 12awg wire, JUST so a NEWBIE who apparently doesnt know shit, makes sure he gets it right and doesnt burn down you little grow op.

Good for you your dad used 12awg, fucking joy, theres your fucking answer

GOD, ignorance breeds insults, fuck your just arrogant.


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## southfloridasean (Jun 5, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Digital Ballasts come in a variety of flavors apparently.
> 
> Some Are only set for either 120v or 240v and cant be rewired.
> Some are set for 120v or 240v and are able to switch back and forth by changing only the power cord.
> Some Dont need anything done to them and can swithc back an forth with nothing needed.


I know this. I just bought 5 dual voltage ballast off of these guys at Ebay because I was tired of going back & forth with the fact of using 120 or 240 so I just went ahead & got the dual voltage. They are excellent, cant complain.

New 1000 Watt 150,000 LM Digital MH/HPS Dual V Ballast - eBay (item 260248037171 end time Jun-11-08 14:53:23 PDT)

New 600 Watt 95,000 LM Digital MH/HPS Dual V Ballast - eBay (item 150255408841 end time Jun-11-08 15:33:15 PDT)


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## kushmonster (Jun 5, 2008)

southfloridasean said:


> Why must you endlessly try to talk to people like their shit? You've done it like three times in this one thread. If you know so much start your own fucking Electrician journal & answer everyones questions. Have you ever asked yourself the question that maybe the guy (electrician) probably feels like the ballast is dual voltage 120~240V?
> 
> They make them like that now a days. So, the moral of the story is before you start your rants instead of sounding like a sarcastic prick who probably weighs a buck twenty soaking wet kindly ask the man what he really meant to say or suggest to him & in a polite way that he could be wrong.


LMAO!!!!Amen bro!! Im not going to even go there about UF, if you've been in other threads you'll aready know hes not exactly the most liked person, but you hit it on the head


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 5, 2008)

No worries I wasnt trying to educate you, just the fellow user friendly and others reading this thread. I do appreciate your input about him though kinda hard to help when some dont want to be helped.

Thanks!!


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## kushmonster (Jun 5, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> So just switch it out, and quite being a smart ass to me for trying to help people.
> 
> Nothing I have said here is wrong, It is even good that we all speculated YOU were wrong about your dad using 12awg wire, JUST so a NEWBIE who apparently doesnt know shit, makes sure he gets it right and doesnt burn down you little grow op.
> 
> ...


 Listen I dont mind when other ppl answer questions on here in fact I encourage it, If you know what your talking about. I unfourtunatly cant be on here 24/7, (I do work to support my family), what I do have a problem with is when someone dosent want to take your advice(for whatever reason!!) dont come off like that on this thread!!! If you want to get all sensitive because your advice wasnt taken, go else where, I didnt start this thread so ppl can bash other ppl on here find another thead for that.

Thanks KM


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 5, 2008)

Word, sorry kushman to bum in on your thread.

No offense, I did get sensitive, I tried to just write whatever dude, but it was irritating me for a while. haha

Apoligies, Apoligies, apoligies. Forgive me  pretty please.

I felt I was just trying to help, and its like getting backhanded.

BTW the GanjaGods are blessing your plants, I talked to em this morning and they mentioned you.


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## southfloridasean (Jun 5, 2008)

No problem, I just hate to see that shit man. Your trying to help people & some jack ass comes in flaming like hes going thru it with his wife or something. But continue with your thread its well worth it.


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## southfloridasean (Jun 5, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> No worries I wasnt trying to educate you, just the fellow user friendly and others reading this thread. I do appreciate your input about him though kinda hard to help when some dont want to be helped.
> 
> Thanks!!


Dont worry about it ganjagoddess, your good with me.


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## kushmonster (Jun 5, 2008)

LMAO No worries GG!!! I just read some of these other threads and ppl are just bashing the hell out of each other!!! I dont have time for that kid shit!! Im on here to get ques. I have answered cause believe me, I need all the help I can get and If I can help someone, well Im pretty sure thats why RIU was started


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 5, 2008)

UserFriendly said:


> Higher voltage line can handle more voltage drop and still perform without burning anything down. [(120 -> 110) vs. (240 -> 220)]


Voltage line? LOL!!! the voltage rating on wire is for the INSULATION , not the metal. Has ZERO, repeat ZERO to do with voltage drop.

I'm done with you.


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## nickfury510 (Jun 5, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> So just switch it out, and quite being a smart ass to me for trying to help people.
> 
> Nothing I have said here is wrong, It is even good that we all speculated YOU were wrong about your dad using 12awg wire, JUST so a NEWBIE who apparently doesnt know shit, makes sure he gets it right and doesnt burn down you little grow op.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry I hurt your feelings gg....good luck to you in life and keep fighting for 420 rights.....


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 5, 2008)

Dude I was a bitch when I wrote that, sorry.

haha, no hard feelings?


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## nickfury510 (Jun 5, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Dude I was a bitch when I wrote that, sorry.
> 
> haha, no hard feelings?


 naahhh...lifes to short for hard feelings.....reading back at my post I can see where someone would take offense....im really not as big an asshole as I come off in text.....


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 5, 2008)

tis the beauty of forums me thinks, lets you speak your mind without the other person right there. haha.

My mind can be mean. lol

shoot i'll stop taking up space in kushmonstas thread.


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## dragracer1589 (Jun 6, 2008)

IS it possible to wire a lamp so that is runs off a comouter power supply. THe lamps i got are 110V! and i have a power supply that gives 5V and 12V when turned on by a homemade switch, and if you got any info im open to it cuz im a POOR COLLEGE STUDENT looking to make some killer bud!


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## kushmonster (Jun 6, 2008)

dragracer1589 said:


> IS it possible to wire a lamp so that is runs off a comouter power supply. THe lamps i got are 110V! and i have a power supply that gives 5V and 12V when turned on by a homemade switch, and if you got any info im open to it cuz im a POOR COLLEGE STUDENT looking to make some killer bud!


 No, because the power supply is a stepdown coverting AC to DC, which is low voltage, you cant run those lamps off of low voltage, LED lights run off low voltage if you want to go that route, Is it a PC grow??


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## 4maggio (Jun 6, 2008)

kushmonster said:


> Listen I dont mind when other ppl answer questions on here in fact I encourage it, If you know what your talking about. I unfourtunatly cant be on here 24/7, (I do work to support my family), what I do have a problem with is when someone dosent want to take your advice(for whatever reason!!) dont come off like that on this thread!!! If you want to get all sensitive because your advice wasnt taken, go else where, I didnt start this thread so ppl can bash other ppl on here find another thead for that.
> 
> Thanks KM



Thank you, KM... Great thread.. keep it yours and the BS (bickering) out.


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## LoudBlunts (Jun 6, 2008)

hahaha.....yea. i would have to say UF is quite the butthurt type.


for fucks sake he made a whole dedicated to me!!!


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 6, 2008)

dragracer1589 said:


> IS it possible to wire a lamp so that is runs off a comouter power supply. THe lamps i got are 110V! and i have a power supply that gives 5V and 12V when turned on by a homemade switch, and if you got any info im open to it cuz im a POOR COLLEGE STUDENT looking to make some killer bud!



It IS possible if its an *old* AT (non ATX style) power supply. Easiest way to tell is if the back of it has 2 power (AC) ports on it. IT was used to turn on the monitor when the 'puter turned on.

Why the 'puter PSU? For fans?


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## blackcoupe01 (Jun 6, 2008)

Didnt realize there were so many electricians on here willing to help the electrically inclined. Im a licensed master electrician and own my own company so I'll be checking this thread to see if i can be of any help as well. I must say, being an electrician does help a lot when it comes to the lighting setup of a grow room. Has anyone started a fire with their setup yet?


----------



## BigBudBalls (Jun 6, 2008)

blackcoupe01 said:


> Didnt realize there were so many electricians on here willing to help the electrically inclined. Im a licensed master electrician and own my own company so I'll be checking this thread to see if i can be of any help as well. I must say, being an electrician does help a lot when it comes to the lighting setup of a grow room. Has anyone started a fire with their setup yet?



LOL! No fires here with growing. (though did burn a few leaves with a CFL, just killed the tips in contact)

People ask me how I learned this stuff. I usually tell them I just bought some wire, parts, soldering iron and fire extinguisher and went to town!

I have created a few SEDs in my time (smoke emitting diodes)


(hey, have ever found those smoke re-installation kits? )


----------



## dragracer1589 (Jun 8, 2008)

BigBudBalls said:


> It IS possible if its an *old* AT (non ATX style) power supply. Easiest way to tell is if the back of it has 2 power (AC) ports on it. IT was used to turn on the monitor when the 'puter turned on.
> 
> Why the 'puter PSU? For fans?


Well I go to college and was looking to make some extra cash, But i got a lot of ppl around and wanna keep it a secert and alos cutt the middle man. yea its a PC grow and was wondering if anyone can give me some tips plz? Also its is an old power supply and it will run two 12V DC fans and 2 lights CFL possibly 100 watts or 1600 lumens apiece.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 8, 2008)

dragracer1589 said:


> Well I go to college and was looking to make some extra cash, But i got a lot of ppl around and wanna keep it a secert and alos cutt the middle man. yea its a PC grow and was wondering if anyone can give me some tips plz?



Wrong thread, wrong reasons....


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## dragracer1589 (Jun 8, 2008)

I meant on the electrial part ganja. And its not the wrong reason when you got over 9 ounces of seeds sitting in your room! I have been selling them like crazy locally AND STILL HAVE THAT MANY LEFT! So right now im wanna try this on a small scale BEFORE i got spend all my money when i got the small supplies right here! Thank You for your concer thought


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 8, 2008)

oh ok sorry, thought you just walk into this thread asking for advice on how to grow.

haha sorry didnt know you were asking for advice on to wire up anything for the pc case.

and dang 9 zones of seeds!!! You could go guerilla planting!!!! haha


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 8, 2008)

dragracer1589 said:


> Well I go to college and was looking to make some extra cash, But i got a lot of ppl around and wanna keep it a secert and alos cutt the middle man. yea its a PC grow and was wondering if anyone can give me some tips plz? Also its is an old power supply and it will run two 12V DC fans and 2 lights CFL possibly 100 watts or 1600 lumens apiece.


Make a little cash with a PC grow? Hope you have a server farm!

What do you mean the PSU will run 2 lights?


----------



## jimmyspaz (Jun 8, 2008)

I saw a post saying that someone had 2/12 wire. I thought I'd chime in with advice. Always use 3/12 wire as ballasts MUST be grounded. Personally I use 3/10 for 20 amp lines. Ground fault receptacles are a good idea too.


----------



## powerplant (Jun 8, 2008)

how can i make my own ballast?
what things do i need?


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## spark1 (Jun 8, 2008)

blackcoupe01 said:


> Didnt realize there were so many electricians on here willing to help the electrically inclined. Im a licensed master electrician and own my own company so I'll be checking this thread to see if i can be of any help as well. I must say, being an electrician does help a lot when it comes to the lighting setup of a grow room. Has anyone started a fire with their setup yet?


 
Apparently, there are quite a few of us, BlackCoupe.


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## jimmyspaz (Jun 8, 2008)

powerplant said:


> how can i make my own ballast?
> what things do i need?


MH- transformer and capacitor,
HPS-transformer, capacitor and igniter,
You would also need a chassis, connecters, wire etc. as well as a fixture(socket and reflector ) to have a complete unit. 
Ballast kits are available, and may be the easiest way if you feel confident in your electrical skills. If you are in any doubt best use a prewired ballast though, it's possible to screw them up, and that is a fire hazard.


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 8, 2008)

jimmyspaz said:


> I saw a post saying that someone had 2/12 wire. I thought I'd chime in with advice. Always use 3/12 wire as ballasts MUST be grounded. Personally I use 3/10 for 20 amp lines. Ground fault receptacles are a good idea too.


12/2 comes with a ground wire too. Its 2 conductor and ground.


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## Emperor2008 (Jun 8, 2008)

Here is my question...I am needing to know how big a breaker I need to handle a 1000 watt,400 watt, fluro lights and a fan or two..plus hydro pumps etc..I am wiring new and adding a breaker for this new adventure...thanks oh yeah it is a 6x9 room also..


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 8, 2008)

Emperor2008 said:


> Here is my question...I am needing to know how big a breaker I need to handle a 1000 watt,400 watt, fluro lights and a fan or two..plus hydro pumps etc..I am wiring new and adding a breaker for this new adventure...thanks oh yeah it is a 6x9 room also..



30 amps. 40 amps for a cushion. Now at 40 amps, might better off running 2 lines/breakers to balance the load.


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## powerplant (Jun 8, 2008)

thanks for that.. 
heres another question.
do i need a ballast for a 100 watt HPS? or can i just stick it into a normal light fixture?


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 8, 2008)

powerplant said:


> thanks for that..
> heres another question.
> do i need a ballast for a 100 watt HPS? or can i just stick it into a normal light fixture?


Put the screwdriver down and no one gets hurt!

NO! HPS/MH/Floro need more then just the straight mains to the bulb terminals.

*you* need to buy a pre-made/wired lamp. (save a life, most likely yours)


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## -Dopeman- (Jun 8, 2008)

I am lucky enough to have the breaker room in my grow room, anyhow, how do i wire a few 15 ( or 20 amp, whichever is better, atleast want to run 1200 watts in lights some day ) Breakers, How do i go about this not shocking myself..

Any reading material you can point me to?


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 8, 2008)

Buy the following:

1 25foot roll of romex 12-2awg wire
2 or 3 (your choice) 20 amp outlets back feed design
2 or 3 Outlet boxes (Get the Heavy duty HPDE plastic one, there more fire resistant)
2 or 3 20 Amp Breakers (MAke sure to get the same brand as your main power supply)


Directions:

1. Tap in where you want you outlets to go, and install the Recep Boxes.
2. Cut out the appropiate length of wire you need for each outlet PLUS like 5 or so feet.
3. Turn off Main Breaker Dissconect.
4. Test adjacent outlets arounf to make sure there is no power coming from main.
5. Knock out a Knock out, or go through a already open one.
6. Feed wire into main box.
7. Split wire into its three wires and strip back to where the wire goes into box.
8. Leave the wire hanging
9. Run the wire over, under, through whatever to your recep box and feed into it.
10. connect wire to your recep and install recep into its outlet box.
11.Connect Main side wires to you new breaker. and to the appropiate bus bars.
12. carefully connect you breaker to your main panel.
13. Pull all extra wire taught, and secure with electrical wire staples every 4 feet or less
14. Knock out new spaces in the main box panel for the new breakers.
15.Turn back on main breakers.
16. TEST new outlet(s) with a outlet tester.

Tidy up, and put a cover on the outlets.

also a few of these may be done in a slightly different order like pull the wire taught, then staple then sut excess, the strip then attach to new breaker, then connect breaker.

You will figure out your appropiate strategy.


----------



## -Dopeman- (Jun 8, 2008)

Thank you for the detailed post - ill give you an update here soon when i do it, and if i have any questions, mind if i pm?


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## SEEDLESSvw (Jun 9, 2008)

Alright, I have a power strip(15A 125V 60Hz 1875w). Can I connect a Light timer(125V 60Hz 15A 1875w) to a 2 split extension cord(125v, says that on both sides of outlet) <does that mean it equals 250v? Connected to that I have a "screw in bulb thing" that you can plug into the splitter ext. cord and its connected to a "Y" splitter bulb thing(it can hold 250v each) and could I put 2- 26w bulbs in it? (total of 4- 26w bulbs). Does that make sense?? I can't really explain it...I will try to get pics 

&


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 9, 2008)

Yes you can do that and be fine.

and two no it doesnt make it 250v

it is still 120v


----------



## SEEDLESSvw (Jun 9, 2008)

Ok, I think the bulbs I have are 100v and I have 4. So it's ok to run that through the 120v splitter ext. cord? Thanks for the quick reply, I want to get my set up up and running tonight.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 9, 2008)

The bulbs you have a 100 watt, volts are not watts.

Volts means the voltage that power is being supplied at, the voltage of your power from your outlets is 120v.


----------



## SEEDLESSvw (Jun 9, 2008)

Alright, thanks for clearing things up for me...I think I'm ready to grow...

/thanks again


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## jimmyspaz (Jun 9, 2008)

Voltage is consatant, amperage varies with load. 120 volt supply is always 120 volts. Wattage is voltage times amperage. For example a 10 amp load on a 120 volt line would be 1200 watts.


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## powerplant (Jun 9, 2008)

good news everyone... i bought the lighting kit i was looking for.


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## Jriggs (Jun 24, 2008)

Hello,
I hope oyu can answer my questions.

I have my grow in a shed, right now its all run through 1 extension cord.... I kow bad...

I want ot wire my shed from teh house and add a sub panel.

Here is what I would like to run.
1 400 watt HPS
1 250 wat MH
5 CFL's
1 portable AC unit
1 portable heater
1 heating mat for propagation
2 air stones
1 water pump
4 fans.

the ocasional power tool to make it a legit shed...

off the extension cord (im sure im losing voltage..) I can run off the extension cord.

the 400 watt on 12/12 the 250 on 18/8 a heater 2 fans and a cfl. (1 surge protector)

right now its running the portable AC unit, 2 fans, and the 250.



Please give me a link to a DIY sight with pictures on how to wire and all.


Do you have any sugestions -- the wire would be run underground from the house to the shed. I will be re-doing the shed also -- addinga false wall in the back, sheetrock on all walls, insulation etc... 


please help .... i am a visual person and prefer pictures with descriptions on how to if oyu have a link..

I also woudl like to know what gage wire i need etc...


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 24, 2008)

Spend the money on an electrician.

Now that being said, spend the money on a home wiring book. Some web site is bound to be missing a few items.

They do make direct burial wire, or you can run it in conduit.




Jriggs said:


> Hello,
> I hope oyu can answer my questions.
> 
> I have my grow in a shed, right now its all run through 1 extension cord.... I kow bad...
> ...


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jun 24, 2008)

Everything you listed actually runs just under 15 amps, thats why you are able to run it all on a extension cord. Suprisingly..

You could continue to run it all on that cord, but I wouldnt use any thing else in the house on the circuit. AT ALL.

you dont need a subpanel, just one open slot in your main breaker box.
From there you could add two slim line 15 amp breakers and get 14/2 UF wire (must be UF, NOT NM) wire and run that to the shed to receps. And voila you have 2 dedicated 15 amp circuits to your shed.

This whole thing wouldnt cost you more than $100, whereas if you installed a sub panel, you are working with seriosly expensive Thick Guage Copper wire like 6/3 which is $3 a foot.


----------



## Jriggs (Jun 24, 2008)

thanks that seems simple enough.


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jun 24, 2008)

I can easily draw up a better explination if you want, just let me know...


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## Jriggs (Jun 24, 2008)

I think I understand it -- but if it was drawn up thier is less likely to be a mistake.


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## kambone (Jun 24, 2008)

2-1000 ballasts 240v 
1-vortex fan 120v
1-room ac 120v
1-eb n grow 120v
1-fish tank aerator 120v

These item all to run from a 50amp breaker on main inside service panel 
to a sub panel containing 1-30 amp breaker/1 -20 amp breaker.

Currently, i need wiring info as far as correct gauge to account for
14 hours of use. THX! purely newbee 2 so all help is greatly appreciated.


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 24, 2008)

kambone said:


> 2-1000 ballasts 240v
> 1-vortex fan 120v
> 1-room ac 120v
> 1-eb n grow 120v
> ...


??? You are going to pull one leg of the 240V from the 30a breaker and the other leg from the 20a breaker for the 2 1000W lights?
It will work, but *seriously* doubt that would pass code.

I'd run (if using a sub panel)
1 15a 240V breaker (lights take about 9a)
1 15A 120V for the AC
1 15A 120V for the rest.

Why does everyone want a sub panel?


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 24, 2008)

Exactly the cost of copper wire is crazy!!! Its cheaper to run multiple 15 amps off the main panel all the way to somewhere instead of throwin in a subpanel with 6/3 wire

If you do HAVE TO HAVE A SUBPANEL because all your slots on your main are full with slimlines.... Then for 50-60 amps the wire needs to be 6/3AWG

For 20 amps the wire needs to be 12/2 and for 30 amps you need 10/2


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## rawgit (Jun 25, 2008)

Hi, I just upgraded to a 400w digital lumatek. The light strikes, starts to glow and brighten, then just dies, all in all about 30 seconds. Then it rests about 5 mins to recycle. What gives?


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 25, 2008)

Cut-off circuitry automatically shuts off in case of a short


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## KozZza69 (Jun 25, 2008)

hey man, I'm a 1st time indoor grower and iv set up a 2 stealth grow boxes in my room. i plan to have 8-9 CLFs running in one box and 2 in the other. i read on the GROW FAQ about how to modify my CFL's to take up less space. but iv found myself rather frustrated trying to get a straight answer on how to run these lights from an outlet in the wall. its a 23W 6500k 120V 60Hz 360mA light bulb. modifying these things are a bitch, but i need all the space i can get. what do i need to buy to make these baby's shine? how many can i run through one outlet? Oh and i live in Canada if that makes any difference.

this is a picture of one of my modified CFL's






i don't wanna burn my place down trying to grow weed!! help


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## BigBudBalls (Jun 25, 2008)

That mod is just silly.(aka: too much work. easier to remote ballast a standard floro lamp) 

AC typically has 2 lines a hot and neutral. House wiring is, again typically, White = neural and Black = Hot/Line 
So the wire that *was* going to the threaded part of the base goes to Neutral, and the tip wire goes to Hot/Line. On a polarized plug, the wider one is neutral.



KozZza69 said:


> hey man, I'm a 1st time indoor grower and iv set up a 2 stealth grow boxes in my room. i plan to have 8-9 CLFs running in one box and 2 in the other. i read on the GROW FAQ about how to modify my CFL's to take up less space. but iv found myself rather frustrated trying to get a straight answer on how to run these lights from an outlet in the wall. its a 23W 6500k 120V 60Hz 360mA light bulb. modifying these things are a bitch, but i need all the space i can get. what do i need to buy to make these baby's shine? how many can i run through one outlet? Oh and i live in Canada if that makes any difference.
> 
> this is a picture of one of my modified CFL's
> 
> ...


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 26, 2008)

heres a simple diagram. BTW in the diagram the red and blue wires are the white wire, and the bare copper wire in the 14/2 wire and they are plugging into the "bus Bar" or "ground bar" you should have no problem seeing this in the main panel of yours.


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## Jriggs (Jun 26, 2008)

thanks id give you more rep, but i need to spread more around it says... 

thank you


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 26, 2008)

No rep needed, but thankx

and remeber to use UF wire not NM wire.

NM isnt rated for wet areas, whereas you can UF through a puddle of water and be ok.

NM has cardbooard inside it for some reason as insulator.

I dont know why they even make NM wire IMO, it should all be UF.


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## tobaaaac (Jun 26, 2008)

I have an electrical question: How many 600w lights can I run in a 3 bedroom house in Georgia without drawing attention from the power company? I'm running a 1000w and a 400w now. I really want to step it up to maybe perpetual harvesting with veg under a single 400w mh and flower under 3x600 mh and 3x600 hps. That's about 1540 kwh per month just for lights. Is that questionable power consumption?


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## potlike (Jun 27, 2008)

It's possible... but doubtful.. chances are as long as you aren't hurting the neighborhood power and paying your bills on time....everything should be fine.

Power companies want you to spend as much as you can.. that's how they make their money!


-potlike


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 27, 2008)

tobaaaac said:


> I have an electrical question: How many 600w lights can I run in a 3 bedroom house in Georgia without drawing attention from the power company? I'm running a 1000w and a 400w now. I really want to step it up to maybe perpetual harvesting with veg under a single 400w mh and flower under 3x600 mh and 3x600 hps. That's about 1540 kwh per month just for lights. Is that questionable power consumption?


You can run two 600 watt lights on a single 15 circuit breaker.

For the other one you would need a additional circuit, but the bright side is that you can use the second circuit to power everything else!

Also If you are currently running both a 400 watt light and a 1000 watt light plus all accs on the one circuit, you are cutting it REALLY CLOSE!!

I am suprised you havent tripped the breaker yet, or the circuit for that room is a 20 amp.


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## potlike (Jun 27, 2008)

I started to answer the question the same way goddess, but I think he is asking whether or not it would look suspicious to the utility company.


-potlike


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 27, 2008)

well then we both answered the question in its entrity! haha

I though he was actually asking about the electrical issues.

Man I always read between the lines too much.


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## boss30 (Jun 28, 2008)

Hello I'min the process of buying a light and I'm a little confused about ballasts. What is the difference in the different kinds (ie:magnetic, digital, remote,)

Also is it a good idea to use a higher wattage ballast than your light, would it be more or less efficient. 

Any help is greatly appreciated


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 28, 2008)

The ballast must match the light exactly...

And here are the differences in ballast type:

Magnetic: 

This is what a magnetic ballast looks like, not in a Ballast Box






This is also a magnetic ballast, and it has one of those above in it!








Next we have Digital ballasts:

Digital ballast are much much more efficient ballasts over magnetic versions









A remote ballast is any of the ones I posted above, meaning it has a long cord from the ballast to the actual light bulb, remote ballasts can be placed outside the growroom, and this will help with tempatures since ballasts can get very hot.

This is a NON REMOTE BALLAST.


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## boss30 (Jun 28, 2008)

Thank you so much. You pretty much verified what I thought, I just wanted to ;make sure I was correct.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 28, 2008)

No problem, glad to help easy as pie.


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## dankiestdank (Jun 28, 2008)

Would a 10 amp timer burn out on using like 10 CFL's in a surge protector?


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## NoWayOut (Jun 28, 2008)

look in orderto know what wire you will need you have to know how many amps you will be pushing in order to know what size breakers to put in the sub panel.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 28, 2008)

dankiestdank said:


> Would a 10 amp timer burn out on using like 10 CFL's in a surge protector?


No, no way actually, you could probally run like 50 of them on one timer.


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## dankiestdank (Jun 28, 2008)

Thank you GG!


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 28, 2008)

Oh and if you want to know a trick.

Its Watts/Volts = Amps

so 50 watt CFL / 120 volts (usa current) = .41 amps

If you have 10 amps you can run 20 50 watt CFL's on it.

or 

like 50 23 watt CFL's


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## dankiestdank (Jun 28, 2008)

Great. You're obviously very experienced. I'll be growing soon.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 28, 2008)

good to hear sir, post a link to your journal in your signature and Ill check it out if I run into you again....


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## dankiestdank (Jun 28, 2008)

Will do.


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## CustomHydro (Jul 1, 2008)

I have a problem. I wired up a 40amp dual pole breaker to my room. I strung out 6 single outlet boxes and decided to test it out. I plugged my fan in and it has too much power! It will only run on high, even higher than high! It smells like something is burning. When I plug the fan into a pre-existing outlet it works fine. Any Ideas?? The only thing I think it could really be is I wired the poles wrong, I will go switch them now and see what happens....


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 1, 2008)

CustomHydro said:


> I have a problem. I wired up a 40amp dual pole breaker to my room. I strung out 6 single outlet boxes and decided to test it out. I plugged my fan in and it has too much power! It will only run on high, even higher than high! It smells like something is burning. When I plug the fan into a pre-existing outlet it works fine. Any Ideas?? The only thing I think it could really be is I wired the poles wrong, I will go switch them now and see what happens....



LOL You wired it for 240V.

Hook your meter to the outlet, and see if its 240 across the main lines and 120 from each to ground.

Each wire off the break is 120. but 180^ out from each other, so when one is +120V the other is -120V hence a 240V sum.


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 1, 2008)

Is the fan meant to run on 120V.

Because you wired up a 240v outlet.

Also make sure you used 240 recpes!

Are you in the USA? because if you are then guranteed that the fan your running and almost every single other electrical appliance you have is 120v.

Also what gauge wire did you use for 40 amps?


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jul 1, 2008)

damn BBB you are quick.


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## B4 Time (Jul 1, 2008)

hi everyone I got an electrical question for ya. 

I got a hot tub line 240V, that is run off two breakers tied together 50 AMP each.
I would like to re run this in to the G.R. and use it to run my lights.
How easy would this be? 

Is it worth it?

What do I need to know about 240V out lets and wiring to make it work?

I have a meeter and some minor electrical exp, enough to know I don't want to screw this up


Thanks 

Ps meter and small screwdriver on floor...... Backing away slowly.... With hands in the air.


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 1, 2008)

Is the room where the tub is? 50 amp wire is expensive. If you are running other side of the house, then not the best idea. Though you are looking at 100amps of 120V One breaker would work with a lot left over.



B4 Time said:


> hi everyone I got an electrical question for ya.
> 
> I got a hot tub line 240V, that is run off two breakers tied together 50 AMP each.
> I would like to re run this in to the G.R. and use it to run my lights.
> ...


----------



## B4 Time (Jul 1, 2008)

The line will reach as is. I'll just disconnect it from the tub and pull it back , wire , conduit, and all. I would just be adding out lets. (?) and the wire between them. (???)

I am running a 1000 W HPS and 600 W MH so I thought the 240 V might be the way to go? The 110 room circuit is shared buy another room, Thought this may be to much load for it?

I am planning on using some of the 110 for smaller things like fans and such.

Thanks again


----------



## B4 Time (Jul 1, 2008)

Ballasts are old school magnetic (Switchable Voltage)


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## capncash (Jul 1, 2008)

I just wired up a brand new ballast 1000w. I went by the diagram on the ballast but the bulb wont fire up. Ive double checked everything. the ballast is humming the bulb and cord are brand new. 

The only thing I can suspect is the plug in for the 120 on the old ballast case was plugged into 240 at the wall and it blew it. Could the receptacle on the ballast case have been fried? 

I plugged in the old ignitor and the bulb came on for 1 second then went off?

Any ideas?


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## 4maggio (Jul 2, 2008)

B4 Time said:


> Ballasts are old school magnetic (Switchable Voltage)


High B4time.. you are correct when I think you're saying that magnetic ballasts are old school... digital is the new type ballast....

BUT!! I've sent back 2 digital ballasts after 3 months each (1 Lumatec 400w hps & 1 Gallaxy 400wHPS/MH).. sure they fix/replace them but who has confidence with a ballast that was fixed (the Lumatec would flicker but not go completly out)?

Old school magnetic ballasts run, run, run... they too are now available in HPS/MH switchable. I still have a 400w MH ballast that I bought in 1992 and although I do not use it as much as the others, it still operates perfectly..

Gimme the mag type... I replace bulbs every 6 months anyway.

Just my 2c.


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## fogerty72 (Jul 2, 2008)

I am trying to wire together 10 CFL lights and don't know how?
How do you wire AC powered lights??
Series or parralell?


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## CustomHydro (Jul 3, 2008)

BigBudBalls said:


> LOL You wired it for 240V.
> 
> Hook your meter to the outlet, and see if its 240 across the main lines and 120 from each to ground.
> 
> Each wire off the break is 120. but 180^ out from each other, so when one is +120V the other is -120V hence a 240V sum.


Woops, I can be a real moron sometimes... It's 240..

Do I need a different breaker?


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## CustomHydro (Jul 3, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Is the fan meant to run on 120V.
> 
> Because you wired up a 240v outlet.
> 
> ...


 Yes I'm in the us, and I don't want 240, I want 120 (I'm not experienced in this, the only wiroing I have done before was on auto's & Cycles so never had a choice in voltage.... 

I used 10 guage solid, I know thats pushing it, do u think I should just go to a 30 amp or will I be okay?


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jul 3, 2008)

CustomHydro said:


> Yes I'm in the us, and I don't want 240, I want 120 (I'm not experienced in this, the only wiroing I have done before was on auto's & Cycles so never had a choice in voltage....
> 
> I used 10 guage solid, I know thats pushing it, do u think I should just go to a 30 amp or will I be okay?


Yes you need a Single pole breaker! The black goes into the breaker, the white and bare copper wire into the bus bar. dont put em into the same slot though. The white needs its own slot, but the bare ground can be doubled up with another ground if need be. Tighten Really good.

And boy am I glad I asked you what gauge wire you used.

You had better switch that to a 30 amp. You were gonna melt that wire right through and burn the mother down...


----------



## BigBudBalls (Jul 3, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Yes you need a Single pole breaker! The black goes into the breaker, the white and bare copper wire into the bus bar. dont put em into the same slot though. The white needs its own slot, but the bare ground can be doubled up with another ground if need be. Tighten Really good.
> 
> And boy am I glad I asked you what gauge wire you used.
> 
> You had better switch that to a 30 amp. You were gonna melt that wire right through and burn the mother down...


Yuppers. Oversizing wire is not a problem (other then cost)
Over sizing the breaker is a *bad* thing.

Hey gg, did you get my reply to your pm? I'm testing out a few a proxies and it can be strange at times.


----------



## CustomHydro (Jul 3, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Yes you need a Single pole breaker! The black goes into the breaker, the white and bare copper wire into the bus bar. dont put em into the same slot though. The white needs its own slot, but the bare ground can be doubled up with another ground if need be. Tighten Really good.
> 
> And boy am I glad I asked you what gauge wire you used.
> 
> You had better switch that to a 30 amp. You were gonna melt that wire right through and burn the mother down...


Damn, I need those amps. I got lucky tho and found a 12/3 G wire running from my main to the attic, and it stops right above my room... (it's just there, not connected to a thing, maybe for a bathroom fan that never got installed??) I can use that right, I just only use the wh/bl/g, and leave the red be?? If that will work I can run a 20amp off that and a 30 off of the 10/2 g...

It's really a great thing u are here to hwlp all the time GG. U answer everyones questions no matter how dumb they may seem to u... I really appreciate the help.


----------



## jayrollinhippy (Jul 3, 2008)

lol you are running 240 volts


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jul 3, 2008)

BigBudBalls said:


> Yuppers. Oversizing wire is not a problem (other then cost)
> Over sizing the breaker is a *bad* thing.
> 
> Hey gg, did you get my reply to your pm? I'm testing out a few a proxies and it can be strange at times.


Ya I did get the PM thank you, still trying to figure out how to find relays that will run off the output, control 120v and at low aps, 

All the ones I have found have a min range of amps, and a maximum.

Still working out the bugs. Any Suggestions?



CustomHydro said:


> Damn, I need those amps. I got lucky tho and found a 12/3 G wire running from my main to the attic, and it stops right above my room... (it's just there, not connected to a thing, maybe for a bathroom fan that never got installed??) I can use that right, I just only use the wh/bl/g, and leave the red be?? If that will work I can run a 20amp off that and a 30 off of the 10/2 g...
> 
> It's really a great thing u are here to hwlp all the time GG. U answer everyones questions no matter how dumb they may seem to u... I really appreciate the help.



Theoretically, That would work. Um have you traced back to what breaker its connected to, and checked if it is truly independant of other circuts?

Also BigBudBalls can clarify if it is ok to use 10/3 as if it were 10/2 wire, Im not clear whether or not that doable per SEC Code.

But in theory ya your all set. Just throw up some receps.


----------



## BigBudBalls (Jul 3, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Ya I did get the PM thank you, still trying to figure out how to find relays that will run off the output, control 120v and at low aps,
> 
> All the ones I have found have a min range of amps, and a maximum.
> 
> Still working out the bugs. Any Suggestions?


A min spec and max?? Sounds *very* odd. You might see a 65ma and 6A on the same. If so, then the smaller one (65ma) is the coil power requirements and the larger (6a) the contact rating.

Other option is a solid state relay (SSR) they have different control and output configs. and usually draw very little current to 'fire', like 5-10ma but can switch a 15 amp load no prob.

A good place for some DIY stuff is All Electronics | Electronic and Electro-Mechanical Parts and Supplies at Discount Prices


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jul 3, 2008)

You know, I think im just gonna go with one of these suckers.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]ACF 120v Programmable Plug-in Thermostat [/SIZE][/FONT]




[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]*Plug-N-Play, For Heating or Cooling*
This thermostat is very accurate and can be used to control 110/120 volt heating or cooling appliances (15 amp max). To operate, simply plug it into an outlet, and plug your appliance into the front of the thermostat! This energy-saving thermostat has up to 4 different daily temperature settings during weekdays and another 4 on weekends. The thermostat can be set to automatically lower the night temperature and raise it in the morning and you will have 2 extra settings that can be set to automatically raise or lower the temperature at anytime. Simply flip open the protective cover to access the easy-to-use controls. Temperature range is 45° to 90° F. Thermostat comes with a battery backup so programs are not lost in a power outage. Batteries (included).
[/SIZE][/FONT] 
[SIZE=+1]*[SIZE=+1]Price:[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] [/SIZE]*[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]*$59.95*[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1] [/SIZE] * qty:* ​

It seems to me that for the price of the Programmable thermostat, relays, ect It would cost about this anyways, and I would always prefer a premade system.

what are your thoughts on this unit BBB?

Use 1 for the heater, and 1 for the ac.


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## CustomHydro (Jul 3, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Ya I did get the PM thank you, still trying to figure out how to find relays that will run off the output, control 120v and at low aps,
> 
> All the ones I have found have a min range of amps, and a maximum.
> 
> ...


I have not hooked it up to a breaker yet to check it, I just found it...

BBB, can u verify if that would be dangerous to use 12/3 as 12/2?

I don't think this will help what u all are working on, but someone may want to use it, check here... International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - Thermostat Controlled Outlets (for cooling), just plug in a couple fans or a single Air conditioner and set the temp and ur good to go... I just threw one together real easily and it is perfect for what I need.


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 3, 2008)

Ahh yes, unfortionatly though it isnt programmable for different temps for night day...

Just one setting, still Im repping ya for the find!


----------



## CustomHydro (Jul 4, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Ahh yes, unfortionatly though it isnt programmable for different temps for night day...
> 
> Just one setting, still Im repping ya for the find!


 Good lookin out GG


----------



## BigBudBalls (Jul 4, 2008)

CustomHydro said:


> I have not hooked it up to a breaker yet to check it, I just found it...
> 
> BBB, can u verify if that would be dangerous to use 12/3 as 12/2?


You want to use 12/3 for a system that only needs 12/2?

Not a prob. Your car has a spare tire, no? Just cap off the extra wire at both ends.


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## violated (Jul 4, 2008)

I started a thread and someone pointed me in this direction.

Im in need of some help with my MH, building a DIY Projector and can not find anything on wiring this up except for ones that have up to 7 wires comming off the ballast but i only have 4. I know this setup works because it was wired up and working at one time, not sure of the brand but its a 70w ballast, 70/100w ignitor, socket and 70w bulb. The pink and blue wires coming from the ballast are over what i think is the short end ( has thinner gauge wire than the other side )

What i need is someone to say connect [ballast, color] wire to [socket, color] wire, etc....


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## capncash (Jul 4, 2008)

I think you need a capacitor. I didnt think MH needed an ignitor?

www.simplyhydro.com/images/ballast.htm

after doing some research it looks as tho some MH dont have capacitors.


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## violated (Jul 4, 2008)

As far as i know it's a Metal Halide, was originally my brothers ( worked for lowes as an electrician specialist ) which he used for growing, he then gave me 2 sets of these which i gave one up to a friend and we used them for growing. Then i jumped out of the grow scene and ended up throwing mine away and this one was the loaner i gave to my friend, as far as i remember i don't think mine had a CAP ( it might have but memory is vague ). Its possible that my friend removed the CAP to use for some other reason cause it was returned it this condition. But from what i remember when it was in use it was blueish in color and had no CAP.


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 4, 2008)

The black round cylinder in the pic is the capacitor???

Besides color are they labled with lettering, caus I could help you out if they are otherwise I dont know whats what.


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## violated (Jul 4, 2008)

I figured it was an ignitor since it has 3 wires but here goes.

Socket = 4-K Pulse Rated Challen____ <-- the rest has rubbed off but i think it says Challenger

Ignitor (i think) = 600-0016 MH70/100 Watt Made in Mexico. Top says 9920.

Ballast = Top half of label ripped off. OP CUR: 2.4 , START CUR: 2.8, WATT: 70 , LAMP: m98 MH , OCV: 280 , INSUL: RBI-200 , 400-0745 , *RU* E124006.

There is a wiring diagram but i only understand half of it, prob should have posted the diagram earlier, i hope it's readable, also on a side note i prob wouldn't trust the wire colors to much as its possible the wires on the ballast may have been removed and put back in the wrong place but they could be in the right place but im just not 100% sure.



```
BLK \/\/\/\/BLU------
    \    |   |BLU   |
    /    |   |      |
    \   RED-[STR]  (0)
    /        |      |
    \        |WHT   |
COM-------WHT--------
```


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## spark1 (Jul 4, 2008)

Easy as pie,Violated! Hook all the white wires together. Hook the black from the cord to the black on the ballast and the green wire to the case that holds your ballast.Hook the blue ballast wire to the blue wire on the capacitor and the black wire on the socket. Hook the red ballast wire to the red capacitor wire. Then plug her in and rep me.LOL


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 5, 2008)

its not a ignitor its a capacitor.


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## NoWayOut (Jul 5, 2008)

Ebil said:


> Ok, heres a question for you  I recently set up a 3 light bulb vanity for my closet, clipped the wires of an extension cord, tied those to the vanity, and have it plugged into the timer. My question is, can I take a computer fan, and put the fan wires inbetween the vanity and the extension cord wires? Will it blow, not work, etc?


the computer fan runs on dc current and your wall outlet is ac so in order to do that is you have to put a transformer between the ac feed and the load on the fan.... iman electrician so any other questions dont be afraid to ask me.


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## 4maggio (Jul 5, 2008)

This thread has morphed into the : 
Electricians Answering Questions thread!!

Haven't seen kushmonster in a month.. Hey KM.. good thread.
But the answers keep coming... I'm learning!

No really.... in the absence of KM others have taken over. 
All answers seem to be real and no one has said 
"you don't know shit, asshole" .. I LOVE IT!!!!

And everyone seems to be on the same page with the answers...

tHANKS.y'all


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 5, 2008)

I got told I dont know shit about ten pages back, haha...

I think I proved it wrong by now...

And KushMonster where did you Go??

Big Bud Balls is a VERY Knowledgeable person when it comes to Electricity though...


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## violated (Jul 5, 2008)

Thanks spark1 i was so close except i had the white power cord running to the white ballast and the white socket running to the white cap instead of all 4 together. Hooked them up and the bulb started to flicker to life.


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## spark1 (Jul 5, 2008)

Good deal,man! Glad I could help you. That's as close to doing electrical work as I plan to get until Monday.LOL  I haven't been checking this thread lately,because there seemed to be lots of other licensed electricians already helping people


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## 4maggio (Jul 5, 2008)

spark1 said:


> Good deal,man! Glad I could help you. That's as close to doing electrical work as I plan to get until Monday.LOL  I haven't been checking this thread lately,because there seemed to be lots of other licensed electricians already helping people


They're not all liceneced, but I'll bet all are certifiable! LOL!!!!


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## B4 Time (Jul 5, 2008)

Fan control VS dimmer switch?
So can someone explain why it's bad to run a fan off a dimmer switch?
Thanks in advance


----------



## spark1 (Jul 5, 2008)

Do I have to type out the long explanation,or will you just believe an electrician with 25 years experience? A Dimmer will work,but your motor will hum and it's life will be shortened.


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## B4 Time (Jul 5, 2008)

So a dimmer will work but a fan control is better?
Thanks, I believe you


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## spark1 (Jul 5, 2008)

A dimmer will work for awhile, at the expense of your fan. Just buy a fan speed control. You are only talking about a few dollars difference. Doing it right will save you money,since you won't have to keep replacing fans.


----------



## BigBudBalls (Jul 5, 2008)

spark1 said:


> A dimmer will work for awhile, at the expense of your fan. Just buy a fan speed control. You are only talking about a few dollars difference. Doing it right will save you money,since you won't have to keep replacing fans.


Its fun how people think a motor works like a light bulb, huh?


now just a general statement:
Think it is like a floro. Can't just dim them with a normal dimmer either.


Speed control done *correctly* on an AC motor is pricey. Also should have a motor to match the control. (ie:inverter and inverter motor)

The typical speed switch on a fan is a mechanical connection to different coils inside the motor with different phasing to control the speed.


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 5, 2008)

I've always loved working with 12 volt dc. so much easier and safer, usually. pick up fan speed controllers from a computer store. they can handle up to 5 or 6 inch computer fans, or maybe more with modifications.

once, I had a wall switch for a ceiling fan. the ceiling fan itself gets set on high and stays there, then the wall switch has high, medium, low and off. it just routes the power through high voltage capacitors inside the switch. granted, not the perfect way to slow a motor, but I never noticed any degrade in performance or excessive heat, and I ran the fan constant. I think I was starting to wear out the barrings. lol


----------



## 4maggio (Jul 6, 2008)

Hello electricians and other normal folk. 
NO, no, I dont meen 'normal'.. LOL,

I have a strange happening.

I have an extension box with 6 outlets, it services the res area of my grow only.. 
It gets power from being pluged into a battry backup 24/7. 

Pluggged into that extension are: 
2 water pumps, 1 IceProbe, an air pump and my grocheck meter.

I have found that I can drop res temps by usning only one of the water pumps primarilly, 
so I turn one on for only 10-15 minutes durning the time that I spend with them, each day, 
then off the rest of the day (keeping the res colder by about 2 degrees) .

*Delema: If I unplug (or plug in) the water pump without turning the Grocheck off, *
*the Grocheck goes into hyroglifics (<< better spelling thru phonics, LOL!) and then shuts off, every time!* 

What!????? It does turn back on and readings seem to be consistant.

Something isn't grounded correctly?

Thanks electricians....


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 6, 2008)

When you say Battery Backup what do you mean.

Why would you yun the EB off a battery backup box? Why not just normal 120v power from a wall outlet.

I can gurantee your problem lies there.

Most likely Why the Intial Pull Amperage of the pumps turns on, the amps in the BB get to low for the Grocheck and it glithces for a second due to a temporary amp loss, then when the Intial amp pull goes to normal running amps it restarts.

Most likely the Battery Backup doesnt have enough amperage rating to take the fire up hit of the pump and run the Grocheck at the same time.


----------



## 4maggio (Jul 6, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> When you say Battery Backup what do you mean.
> 
> Why would you yun the EB off a battery backup box? Why not just normal 120v power from a wall outlet.
> 
> ...


Don't know about BB amp rating.. will check it.

Thanks for the ideas GG.


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 6, 2008)

Ahh I see, I Would have to say somewhere in the backup to the wall outlet somethings a miss.

Just a guess though, sucks you guys have such bad outages down there...


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## Charred (Jul 6, 2008)

alright i'm looking at purchasing the 6" cool tube from htgsupply but it comes with a built in 5kv pulse rated mogul socket. I'm from australia and my 600w HPS light is using at 4kv pulse rated socket... 
would it still work?


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 6, 2008)

if the socket is for the same shape bulb and can be mounted the same, but it's just a higher voltage rating, that is perfectly fine to use.

most battery backups don't actually do anything to your power in the outlets while your source is stable. they usually have a relay inside them that switches your outlets over from normal household power to the power generated by the batteries. if you unplug the battery backup from the wall while it's still turned on, you usually hear a click and some beeps. the click is the relay. if you don't hear it, your battery backup might have what's called a line conditioner. it could cause more constant problems with things like pumps.

it's more then likely a loose wire or plug someplace. maybe inside your outlet box, or a cord someplace. one thing easy and obvious to try is unplugging the battery backup and plug your extension box right into the wall. see if you have the same problem that way.


----------



## spark1 (Jul 6, 2008)

4maggio said:


> Hello electricians and other normal folk.
> NO, no, I dont meen 'normal'.. LOL,
> 
> I have a strange happening.
> ...



OK, this is another easy one (since I use a Hanna Combo Gro Chek). When you connect/disconnect the pump,it moves the outlet box slightly, and the weight of the Gro Chek transformer makes it wiggle,losing connection for a millisecond. If you hold the transformer down,while you connect/disconnect your pump, I bet it doesn't shut down. I zip-tied mine to the plug strip, and that solved the problem.


----------



## Charred (Jul 6, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> if the socket is for the same shape bulb and can be mounted the same, but it's just a higher voltage rating, that is perfectly fine to use.


thanks heaps, the site said it can carry any HPS globe so my 600w should fit. my current mount is horizontal so will work in the cool tube as well.

can anyone(preferably qualified electrician) just confirm wether it will still work, just want to be definate that i'm not going o come home and find my house on fire

thanks again


----------



## B4 Time (Jul 6, 2008)

My 240 V by 100 Amp is four lines, two black, one black with white tape, and a solid green. 

Sooo... The two black I'm guessing are 120 by 50 Amp, The black with white tape is common??, and the solid core green coper is ground.? .....Right?

So I take the two black 50 amp and use each as it's own circuit? ( splitting the common between both. (A "Y" Connector splitting that (common) going to each circuit?))

Green to ground strip in box, shared by both circuits. (ok?)

What about the line load? will I need to balance each line/circuit??
Thanks for any help you can provide.


----------



## 4maggio (Jul 7, 2008)

spark1 said:


> OK, this is another easy one (since I use a Hanna Combo Gro Chek). When you connect/disconnect the pump,it moves the outlet box slightly, and the weight of the Gro Chek transformer makes it wiggle,losing connection for a millisecond. If you hold the transformer down,while you connect/disconnect your pump, I bet it doesn't shut down. I zip-tied mine to the plug strip, and that solved the problem.


"Experience *is* the best answer", Spark1 !!!!!! Loose transformer! 
I can't believe it was as simple as that.

Thanks for the repiles y'all.


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 7, 2008)

Wow I woulda never guessed that... Cheers to spark1...

Dont you just love this site...


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## B4 Time (Jul 7, 2008)

Buler?........Any one?


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 7, 2008)

Charred said:


> can anyone(preferably qualified electrician) just confirm wether it will still work, just want to be definate that i'm not going o come home and find my house on fire



if it's a good quality item you ordered, I'm sure they'd give you a socket rated for your bulb. you can always ask them if you're unsure. I would think they'd give you a wattage rating on the socket.


----------



## 4maggio (Jul 7, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Wow I woulda never guessed that... Cheers to spark1...
> 
> *Dont you just love this site*...


Yes I do... I would have been screwin with that for who knows how long.

Thanks for the ideas GG.

And yes the power outages are a PITA. 

Gotta keep a battery powered clock around all the time! LOL!!!!

Thanks again..


----------



## lorenzo08 (Jul 7, 2008)

actually, I've been wondering, how badly would that hurt the plants if there was a power outage in the middle of the light cycle? probably mess with the plant pretty bad if it was in flowering?


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## 4maggio (Jul 8, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> actually, I've been wondering, how badly would that hurt the plants if there was a power outage in the middle of the light cycle? probably mess with the plant pretty bad if it was in flowering?


High Lorenzo... my thoughts are that it will not be good for the bulb..hot start. Isn't it recommended to wait for the bulb to cool before restarting it. Shortens bulb life...?!!

But if you are so inclined.. program your light timer to go off in the middle of their night... let us know what you find.. I'm good with 12/12.

But what do I know!??? LOL!~!!


----------



## realmeatdildo (Jul 8, 2008)

Hi, firstly, thanks for offering your services to everyone on the site, it's very generous of you to do that. 
I am having what I believe is an electrical problem with timers. I am running 1x600w hps and 20x15w cfls. So far, I have fried 2 of those cheap timers and one of those with a supposed 30 amp switch inside. The maximum rating is 10 amps on these timers. 
According to the guy at the hydro shop, the ballast for the 600w 'spikes' (whatever that means), at 15 amps, and so, apparently, you need a timer with a 30 amp switch in it. 
The guy at the other hydro shop says they 'spike' at 2.8 amps. I don't know who's right and really wtf they're talking about, but I'm kind of sick of getting out bed every morning at the same time to turn off the lights (it kind of ruins your Saturday morning sleep-in). 
The total wattage of my setup is about 983 watts including one tubular fluoro that has its own ballast which is an older type of cloning light with its own special reflector (looks like what they used in the early eighties) and I was wondering, since each of the cfls has its own little built-in ballast and I'm using two other devices, as mentioned before, that also have ballasts, whether this could be the reason that these timers, supposed rated for loads of 2400 watts, which I am way under. 
Could it be the fact that maybe these ballasts are all building up the initial pull of current (which is what is what I assume 'spiking' is) and this is overloading the timer? Any ideas?


----------



## 4maggio (Jul 8, 2008)

realmeatdildo said:


> Hi, firstly, thanks for offering your services to everyone on the site, it's very generous of you to do that.
> I am having what I believe is an electrical problem with timers. I am running 1x600w hps and 20x15w cfls. So far, I have fried 2 of those cheap timers and one of those with a supposed 30 amp switch inside. The maximum rating is 10 amps on these timers.
> According to the guy at the hydro shop, the ballast for the 600w 'spikes' (whatever that means), at 15 amps, and so, apparently, you need a timer with a 30 amp switch in it.
> The guy at the other hydro shop says they 'spike' at 2.8 amps. I don't know who's right and really wtf they're talking about, but I'm kind of sick of getting out bed every morning at the same time to turn off the lights (it kind of ruins your Saturday morning sleep-in).
> ...


RMD.. thanks for the question...Hey electricians... 
I have a 600w ballast (upgrade from 400w) on the way. 
Am I going to need new timers?


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jul 8, 2008)

realmeatdildo said:


> Hi, firstly, thanks for offering your services to everyone on the site, it's very generous of you to do that.
> I am having what I believe is an electrical problem with timers. I am running 1x600w hps and 20x15w cfls. So far, I have fried 2 of those cheap timers and one of those with a supposed 30 amp switch inside. The maximum rating is 10 amps on these timers.
> According to the guy at the hydro shop, the ballast for the 600w 'spikes' (whatever that means), at 15 amps, and so, apparently, you need a timer with a 30 amp switch in it.
> The guy at the other hydro shop says they 'spike' at 2.8 amps. I don't know who's right and really wtf they're talking about, but I'm kind of sick of getting out bed every morning at the same time to turn off the lights (it kind of ruins your Saturday morning sleep-in).
> ...



I could see having a problem running 980 watts on a 10 amp fused timer, but even homedepot carries the now standard 15 amp fuse timers.

With that wattage and a 15 amp timer you should be fine.

Heres a link to a standard timer from HTGsupply

High Tech Garden Supply

Cheers. 

GG


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jul 8, 2008)

4maggio said:


> RMD.. thanks for the question...Hey electricians...
> I have a 600w ballast (upgrade from 400w) on the way.
> Am I going to need new timers?


No a 600 watt light draws about 5.9 amps, so most any timer can handle it just fine.


----------



## realmeatdildo (Jul 8, 2008)

Thanks very much for your response. However, I am in Australia so there's no home depot here, and we have a standard that 10 amps is the legal limit for devices such as timers, this is why the hydro shop sting you $60 for a timer with a 30 amp 'switch' in it, that can supposedly handle what I',m doing, that is running basically 1000 watts. I don't know what the 30 amp 'switch' is? 
The hydro shop guys also are telling me they've got people using 3x1000watt lights using these same timers without a problem. They're assuring me that it can handle at least 10 amps without burning out, but so far, well, I have the burned out timers to prove that's wrong. 
So, why do you think this keeps occurring, please?


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jul 8, 2008)

Well Now I am dumb founded because I just googled australia standard current and found out you guys run on 240v so even with 980 watts, you are only drawing 4.1 amps.

There should be no way the amp draw is fusing the contacts in a 10 amp timer at even with a high inductive load.

But I did find something for you to do that will solve this problem once and for all for less than $20.00.

Here you go.

GROWFAQ

There is also a bit of info in there for you.

If I am mistaken and you are running at 120v then I can see why the timers keep fusing.


----------



## Charred (Jul 8, 2008)

yeh we do use 240V over here,
hey realmeatdildo, g to bunnings and buy the best timer you can. will cost about 30$max, works for me


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 8, 2008)

might not help you in your country, but here, I got a brinks digital timer from walmart. the type I got has what I guess you could call a solid state relay. there are no relay contacts to fuse together or wear out. it uses what's called a triac, something like a transistor. a timer like this might work better for you.

you most likely have a transformer based ballast with a high voltage capacitor in it. these use a lot of power when they first turn on. kinda like an air conditioner. this fix might be a little more costly, but you could try buying a digital ballast with a "soft start" feature in it. these will first start off using less power to charge up when first turned on, so there's not as big of an initial surge.

I built a power supply for my living room stereo a few years ago. when it first turns on, it draws a surge of power to charge up the capacitors. this can burn up the contacts on the relays, so I put a soft start circuit in it. the first few seconds that it's turned on, it runs on low power, then switches a second relay to pull full power. works very nice.


----------



## B4 Time (Jul 8, 2008)

My 240 V by 100 Amp is four lines, two black, one black with white tape, and a solid green. 

Sooo... The two black I'm guessing are 120 by 50 Amp, The black with white tape is common??, and the solid core green coper is ground.? .....Right?

So I take the two black 50 amp and use each as it's own circuit? ( splitting the common between both. (A "Y" Connector splitting that (common) going to each circuit?))

Green to ground strip in box, shared by both circuits. (ok?)

What about the line load? will I need to balance each line/circuit??
Thanks for any help you can provide.



Any one?......
Thanks again.


----------



## lorenzo08 (Jul 8, 2008)

this is something beyond the scope of the forum. you should have an electrician check your work before turning anything on.

I haven't been following your posts, so not exactly sure what you have or are trying to do. you're pretty much right so far. the 2 blacks are the hot wires, and the black with white tape is neutral (common). the hots are both 120v relative to the neutral, adding up to 240v. they are each 100 amp.

not exactly sure what you're doing with a "Y" connector, or with the 2 hot wires even. you probably have something like 2 gage cable coming in. this cannot be split off or spliced into at all! these cables have to go into a breaker panel before it can be of any use. I got a small panel for my house from home depot for $45.

where your 240v 100 amp wires are coming from, is there a 100 amp circuit breaker feeding that source? if there is a breaker on that end, then it is optional to have one in your sub panel. if your feed is coming right from the meter, then you will need a 100 amp breaker in your new panel. I always use anti-corrosion paste on all the high amperage connections. it's cheap, just put plenty on. you will also need a breaker panel with separate ground and neutral bars. if the panel is right at the meter, the ground and neutral can go together on the same bar, but with any distance and a sub panel, like in your case, they will be separate.

balancing the circuit can be worried about once the panel itself is installed. I think I talk to much, but no one's told me to shut up on here yet.


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 8, 2008)

2 black (if in USA) are 2 120V. The one with the white tape is neutral, the sold green is ground.

So between either black and neutral (or ground) you should see 120.
Between the 2 black, 240,
between the white and neutral nothing (other then a few milli volt.)

Now, neutral is used because the 2 legs may not be equal to ground.
One may swing 150+ and 90-. exaggerated and not normal. (but then neutral is tied to ground in the box)


Load balancing probably isn't needed, but usually a good thing to do.
But you should ditch the double breaker and pop in 2 singles if splitting the circuit. Because if one leg pops, it will take the other with it if left as a double.




B4 Time said:


> My 240 V by 100 Amp is four lines, two black, one black with white tape, and a solid green.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## B4 Time (Jul 8, 2008)

No, No Buy all means keep going!

What I have is a line that use to feed a hot tub, it is 240 V by 100 Amp. It comes from the main panel off two 50Amp breakers. From the main panel it runs to a sub panel, again with two 50 amp breakers. Out of the sub panel runs the four wires that I am referring to in the above post, Black , Black , White, and Green. 

What i want to do is remove the sub panel off the side of the house and relocate it in the room. All cable will just be moved over about 20' 

The four wires coming out of the sub I want to make in to two new 120 V by 50 Amp circuits.

I havent wired any of this yet so there is no "Y". I'm just confused on how to make 2 common circuits out of one line. 

Same for the ground

The two hot lines seem fine because I want two circuits. 

Thanks for any help


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## B4 Time (Jul 8, 2008)

Ps I am in usa

I think all my electronics run on smoke, because every time I try to take one apart that's whats inside?????......


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 8, 2008)

I think you cleared it up a little better for us. the 2 50 amp breakers add up to 240v 50 amps. you only add the volts in this case, not the amps. is there room in this sub panel to add more breakers? or is the hot tub not in use and those are being removed? if everything is wired safely, you might still have trouble with breakers tripping if the hot tub is in use while lights are on. depends how much each is pulling.

to run grow lights off this panel, you'll want to get 2 single 20 amp breakers, not 50's. run 12-2 wire to outlet boxes and use standard outlets. you might be looking at $30 in supplies. not to bad.


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## B4 Time (Jul 8, 2008)

The hot tube dose not exist any longer. Why 20 amp and not 50? Is there just no need for the extra juice? I plan on running at least one 1000 Watt HPS one 600 MH some large fans, o2 pumps, H2o pumps and some misc. stuff. 

Will the two 20's be enough?
The circuit in the room as of now is a shared circuit with other rooms. That is another reason I figured I would re route the hot tub line in and just have a no worries set up.

Thoughts?
Thanks again


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 8, 2008)

outlets can't be wired into 50 amp outlets. big old fire hazard. your 1000 watt lamp should use about 9 amps. 2 20 amp circuits should be plenty, and have extra room to expand if needed. even 2 15's would work.

use 14 gage wire with 15 amp breakers and 12 gage with 20 amp breakers. gfi outlets are also a good idea.


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 8, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> outlets can't be wired into 50 amp outlets. big old fire hazard. your 1000 watt lamp should use about 9 amps. 2 20 amp circuits should be plenty, and have extra room to expand if needed. even 2 15's would work.
> 
> use 14 gage wire with 15 amp breakers and 12 gage with 20 amp breakers. gfi outlets are also a good idea.


He already has the heavy wire in the house for the hot tub. There is zero problem keeping it, and just using a smaller breaker a pair of 20amp'ers (just not a dual). No code violations in using a bigger wire. I missed the outlet sizing, oops.
20Amps outlets have that little 'goiter' off the one leg.


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## B4 Time (Jul 8, 2008)

Cool, Thanks a bunch!

I'll get some wire (12 gauge) and a few out lets, boxes, breakers.
How many out lets could I wire off this set up? Would 3 out lets for each 20 breaker be ok? (total 6 plugs)


Thanks again


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 8, 2008)

yes, keeping the 50 amp sub panel is fine. not sure exactly what's in it. it sounded to me like 50 amp breakers going in and 50 amp going out. wiring the outlets directly into a 50 amp breaker is a bad idea.

my experience with outlets, a cheap outlet is a cheap outlet. doesn't matter so much if it's rated at 15 amps or 20. I've melted 20 amp cheap outlets with small heaters and air conditioners.

for my grow room, I'm getting a 400 watt lamp, and running a dedicated 20 amp 12 gage line to outlets, with 1 gfi outlet protecting everything, as well as an arc fault breaker.


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## B4 Time (Jul 8, 2008)

I will be replacing the two 50's with two 20's. Should I leave the two 50's in the main panel or switch them out to 20's as well? 

Thanks again


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 8, 2008)

B4 Time said:


> How many out lets could I wire off this set up? Would 3 out lets for each 20 breaker be ok? (total 6 plugs)



that sounds like a good plan. you can put however many outlets you need on a circuit. post a thread if you have questions hooking it up. and be safe!


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 8, 2008)

B4 Time said:


> I will be replacing the two 50's with two 20's. Should I leave the two 50's in the main panel or switch them out to 20's as well?


if there's nothing running off the 50's, you can turn them off and pull them out. just watch you don't touch the metal bars behind it. they are live and painful/deadly. (shh, I heard they taste like candy)


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## spark1 (Jul 8, 2008)

You will have to trim down the wires to fit in a 20A breaker's lug. The wire is at least #8 and could be #6.

Lorenzo.....they taste like toffee


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 8, 2008)

I'd like to see someone try hooking a 6 gage cable to an outlet. maybe with one strand of the wire.


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 8, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> I'd like to see someone try hooking a 6 gage cable to an outlet. maybe with one strand of the wire.


stub wire and wire nuts.


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## spark1 (Jul 8, 2008)

Yeah, He'll have to pigtail with #12 solid


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 8, 2008)

I think he has 6 or 8 gage going to the sub panel with a 50 amp 2 pole breaker for a main in there. he's then adding 2 20 amp breakers to that sub panel and running 12 gage from there out to 6 outlets. it's nice to see someone taking the time to do it right. hope he's proud of his work when it's finished.


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## B4 Time (Jul 8, 2008)

I'll post some picks when it's all ready. will be a while tho.

Thanks for the complement, and all the help


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 8, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> I think he has 6 or 8 gage going to the sub panel with a 50 amp 2 pole breaker for a main in there. he's then adding 2 20 amp breakers to that sub panel and running 12 gage from there out to 6 outlets. it's nice to see someone taking the time to do it right. hope he's proud of his work when it's finished.


Yes do this! Good advice +rep....


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## spark1 (Jul 8, 2008)

hmmmm and I never get rep

​


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 8, 2008)

Its not really advisable to to advise to trim down #6 or #8 wire to fit into receps or smaller guaged breakers. You really shouldnt even use a Pigtail...

Sorry.


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 8, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Its not really advisable to to advise to trim down #6 or #8 wire to fit into receps or smaller guaged breakers. You really shouldnt even use a Pigtail...



hah... not sure about them, but I was joking about it. I try to keep jokes like that obvious so no one tries it. also been trying to help keep people safe, but try not to be pushy or step on toes.

how do you give rep anyway? I haven't seen a button for it.


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 8, 2008)

On the right top of each post there are these little scales, kinda like the scales of justice.

Click it, and a box will pop up...


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## spark1 (Jul 9, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Its not really advisable to to advise to trim down #6 or #8 wire to fit into receps or smaller guaged breakers. You really shouldnt even use a Pigtail...
> 
> Sorry.



Can you give me the reference in the NEC ?


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 9, 2008)

No reference, I was saying its not advisable to try to shove 6awg or 8awg into a 20 amp breaker, actually there might be a code in there about that in specific but Im not gonna go find it.

Thats Why I didnt +rep you, then you said "hey how come I dont get Rep"

Now you have your answer.


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## spark1 (Jul 9, 2008)

I was actually referring to the people whom I have helped,when I mentioned getting rep.
"hmmmm and I never get rep" would be the actual quote.
Enjoy your thread.


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 9, 2008)

Ok, sorry if I came off a bitch. thought you were talking to me.

Ne ways here some Rep love for you....


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## bryant228 (Jul 9, 2008)

Good thread and poster to keep on hand. Thank you very much for your offer to help with elec questions. Just imagine the fires that you have helped avoid.


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## B4 Time (Jul 9, 2008)

+ rep for all who helped me...
Thanks again


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 9, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> No reference, I was saying its not advisable to try to shove 6awg or 8awg into a 20 amp breaker, actually there might be a code in there about that in specific but Im not gonna go find it.
> 
> Thats Why I didnt +rep you, then you said "hey how come I dont get Rep"
> 
> Now you have your answer.


you probably won't find any code about over sizing the wire from a breaker. The job of the breaker is to protect the wiring and thats it. (Since the wiring it in general in side of walls or in conduit) The NEC code doesn't care at all what you plug into the outlet. It only goes to the outlet. After that its up to the idiot pluggin something into it.

The NEC code is up for change. If its passed, all new outlets are gonna be big bucks. ($6-10 compared to now at $1) So buy outlets now.


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## 4maggio (Jul 9, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> hah... not sure about them, but I was joking about it. I try to keep jokes like that obvious so no one tries it. also been trying to help keep people safe, but try not to be pushy or step on toes.
> 
> how do you give rep anyway? I haven't seen a button for it.


Lorenzo I give you rep (ah!) for asking that question.
Who knew?! I smoke pot.. sometimes I overlook things! scales!? Who knew?

Thanks... now I have to go back and rep a buncha good people. Really!

But what is it? Rep? What does one gain....? Reputation.. I get that part.. but
is there a promotion.. 
whats the advantage of rep.. I guess, is what I'd like to know.

If I were to 'disaprove" does that take away rep?

Is there a "rep giving" thread? only half kidding.. Is there anything else I'm missing?


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 9, 2008)

It give validation to the person's advice.


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 9, 2008)

I wish people would stop giving me dumbass points. I don't know why they do that.. lol


you might have me there. I can't point you to a page describing this code. but it's still good practice to match up wire gage with breaker ratings. unless you're running the wire 100+ feet and need a thicker gage to have less of a voltage drop, it's not practical and more costly to use thicker wire.


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 9, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> I wish people would stop giving me dumbass points. I don't know why they do that.. lol
> 
> 
> you might have me there. I can't point you to a page describing this code. but it's still good practice to match up wire gage with breaker ratings. unless you're running the wire 100+ feet and need a thicker gage to have less of a voltage drop, it's not practical and more costly to use thicker wire.


We are back full circle. The heavy wire is already run. He just needs to downsize a bit to fit the items. Breaker sized to the smallest wire in the run.


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 9, 2008)

BigBudBalls said:


> We are back full circle. The heavy wire is already run. He just needs to downsize a bit to fit the items. Breaker sized to the smallest wire in the run.


I still think it's a better plan to use the existing sub panel for what it's meant for, and just add 2 20 amp breakers to branch off to his outlets, and spend the money on a little 12 gage. it's easier and safer to work with the right parts for the job. I enjoy rigging things as much as the next guy, but house wiring I do right. usually..

I do kinda have 2 100 amp sub panels going into the same 100 amp main breaker at the meter. I plan on upgrading it in a few years to 200 amp service with 2 100 amp mains. to do that, I have to replace the meter box and have everything inspected before it can be turned on. in the end, it will be done right.


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## bill coswell (Jul 10, 2008)

hi there. can you tell me the process in wiring 4 240 volt recepticles in series.


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## jahtrip (Jul 10, 2008)

Wats up kushmonster... i have a question for you thats causing me quite alot of problems..... and i really dont know why.... 
basically i entered my grow room last night and the lamp was still on when it was supposed to be off.... i tested the timer and it wasnt working... so i figured that was the problem and switched it .... unfortunatly my plants received 5 more hours of light than they were supposed to..... and it happened again tonight.... after i changed the timer..... i decided to test my old timer and the new one today.. and they both work with my iron but im worried about using them again in the grow room... maybe its not the timer thats causing a problem... but then wat could it be???? the fan and extractor are hooked up to different plugs but i think they
are on the same circuit and they are doing fine... it just seems so un logical to me that the timer just wont switch the lamp off... HELP!!!!!!! Pleaaase... and soooooon 
peace


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 10, 2008)

jahtrip said:


> Wats up kushmonster... i have a question for you thats causing me quite alot of problems..... and i really dont know why....
> basically i entered my grow room last night and the lamp was still on when it was supposed to be off....



haven't experienced this myself but I've heard of it a few times on the forum. the contacts inside the timer fuse together (stick together). the HID lamp you're using draws a surge of power when first turned on. this slightly melts the contacts together. you can either try getting a heavier duty timer, or try a solid state timer. solid state timers use a type of transistor called a triac instead of contacts like a normal switch.


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 10, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> I still think it's a better plan to use the existing sub panel for what it's meant for, and just add 2 20 amp breakers to branch off to his outlets, and spend the money on a little 12 gage. it's easier and safer to work with the right parts for the job. I enjoy rigging things as much as the next guy, but house wiring I do right. usually..
> 
> I do kinda have 2 100 amp sub panels going into the same 100 amp main breaker at the meter. I plan on upgrading it in a few years to 200 amp service with 2 100 amp mains. to do that, I have to replace the meter box and have everything inspected before it can be turned on. in the end, it will be done right.


Depends on how accessible the wiring is. No reason to rip up drywall if its buried.


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 10, 2008)

bill coswell said:


> hi there. can you tell me the process in wiring 4 240 volt recepticles in series.


In series? WHY?
Is this a US 240 or Euro 230? (US 240 is 2 120 hots 180 out Euro is 230 and a neutral)

One break in a series and *all* are dead. I can see for a safety issue in some applications.


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 10, 2008)

BigBudBalls said:


> Depends on how accessible the wiring is. No reason to rip up drywall if its buried.


good point there. sometimes I forget, not everyone does things the hard way like I do. no matter what, just keep it safe


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 10, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> haven't experienced this myself but I've heard of it a few times on the forum. the contacts inside the timer fuse together (stick together). the HID lamp you're using draws a surge of power when first turned on. this slightly melts the contacts together. you can either try getting a heavier duty timer, or try a solid state timer. solid state timers use a type of transistor called a triac instead of contacts like a normal switch.


SSRs are a viable solution. Just pick carefully. There are many configurations. Other option is an industrial contactor (sometimes, an somewhat incorrectly, called a relay) It functions like a relay, but the contacts are made for more current and more ON/OFF cycles.

To jahtrip, how big a lamp and what type? HPS vs MH are a bit different on inrush currents.


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 10, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> good point there. sometimes I forget, not everyone does things the hard way like I do. no matter what, just keep it safe


And as long as I keep this hat on, no one should notice the point


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## bill coswell (Jul 10, 2008)

Thanks for the reply big bud. I'm in the US. i've got 3 1000 watt lights and a 13 amp ac. also have a 60 amp mech. timer. how would you wire it?


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## jahtrip (Jul 11, 2008)

man im glad i got a reply so quick ...... thank you lorenzo im gonna invest in a new timer and see what happens...


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 11, 2008)

bill coswell said:


> Thanks for the reply big bud. I'm in the US. i've got 3 1000 watt lights and a 13 amp ac. also have a 60 amp mech. timer. how would you wire it?


Are the lights and AC both 240? If so, you're at about 20-25 amps. (shooting from the hip)
I' wire the outlets in parallel.
60amp timer? Dang!


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 11, 2008)

That is assuming they are all on the same 30 amp or more circuit.

If they are on seperate circuits you will need a different timer for each circuit.


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## bill coswell (Jul 11, 2008)

good lookin on the quick reply. bbb and gg I'm repin both of you. I'm using a 40 amp breaker and 8 gauge wire. oh and yes they are both 240. the ac is 18k btu the ballast are digital and 4.5 amps. trying to get the room worked out for some purple real soon. can't wait


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 11, 2008)

bill coswell said:


> good lookin on the quick reply. bbb and gg I'm repin both of you.


first glance, I thought you said rapin.

I'm keeping my nose out of most of this because I'm not familiar with international wiring. sounds like you know what you're doing. remember to keep everything protected with the right size circuit breaker. in the us, we split up circuits into 15 or 20 amp groups. 40 amps at 240v is a lot of power in one circuit. electric stoves can run on a line like that here.


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 11, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> first glance, I thought you said rapin.
> 
> I'm keeping my nose out of most of this because I'm not familiar with international wiring. sounds like you know what you're doing. remember to keep everything protected with the right size circuit breaker. in the us, we split up circuits into 15 or 20 amp groups. 40 amps at 240v is a lot of power in one circuit. electric stoves can run on a line like that here.


A raping would almost be welcomed. Been too long. 

He's in the US, so hop back in man!

I think my electric stove is 60 amps not sure. (can't figure out WHY there is the main panel is on the OUTSIDE of my house. Feeds the stove, AC and internal sub panel. Just what I want to do, reset a breaker in the dark in the rain outside. The house is only 12 years old).

Going 240 will save some on the electric bill, but doubt enough to notice. (so its NOT a reason to go 240) To drop wire size I can see that as a reason.

Yup 40 amp of 240 is a LOT. Thats 80 amps of 120!

Do people get overly worried about draw?

A dedicated 15 amp'er or two for a killer room should be just fine.


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 11, 2008)

BigBudBalls said:


> can't figure out WHY there is the main panel is on the OUTSIDE of my house. Feeds the stove, AC and internal sub panel.


sounds like a good layout to me. not so good being outside, but having the heavier loads on a separate panel closer to the meter eases the stress on the rest of your house.

when I moved in, my whole house was run on a 100 amp sub panel at the end of 50 or 60 feet of 2 or 4 gage. I put in a second 100 amp sub panel outside near the meter to run baseboard heat last winter. this winter, I'm putting in central air heat pump and will run it off that panel, as well as the kitchen.


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 11, 2008)

still not really sure what bill has planned. everything running off the 8 gage line? in cars, with large stereo's, it's fine to splice off 2 gage into 2 or 3 smaller gage cables for separate amps. but with household wiring, there's a lot more danger of overload with the higher voltages and risk of fire.


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## [email protected] (Jul 13, 2008)

kushmonster said:


> I've been a member here for almost a month now and I see alot of people asking electrical questions...
> 
> I've been an Electrician for about 10yrs now so if someone has a question pertaining to electrical or wiring, I'll be happy to help if I can


 hello just a quick one for ya ,would it be possible it install a fan controller unit in a portable ac unit ?ive had a nightmare with heat in my cab! so ac is only option (i think?) and in your opinion,would it cost too much to run at same time as lights?,also would a reduction in fan speed have much effect on power consumption? thanks kev.


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 13, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> hello just a quick one for ya ,would it be possible it install a fan controller unit in a portable ac unit ?ive had a nightmare with heat in my cab! so ac is only option (i think?) and in your opinion,would it cost too much to run at same time as lights?,also would a reduction in fan speed have much effect on power consumption? thanks kev.


A fan controler to control the whole AC unit or just the AC units internal fan?

If entire unit hell no! Even with a freq drive on the compressor (which isn't designed for a freq drive) wouldn't work for a damn!

Slowing the fan speed isn't a good idea either. The evaporator will over cool and frost up clogging itself defeating its effectiveness. You might be able to change the metering, but thats not a DIY type job.

As for cost, doesn't matter if the lights are on too (unless you have some odd peak-rate billing)


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## [email protected] (Jul 13, 2008)

BigBudBalls said:


> A fan controler to control the whole AC unit or just the AC units internal fan?
> 
> If entire unit hell no! Even with a freq drive on the compressor (which isn't designed for a freq drive) wouldn't work for a damn!
> 
> ...


 thanks for your answer,dont think i,ll bother with that one then


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 13, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> thanks for your answer,dont think i,ll bother with that one then


One thing I have been pondering is using a small dorm fridge, and building an acrylic tank to fit inside of it. Fill the tank with water, add a pump and a radiator (I have a nice one for this too) and a fan. Fridge cools the water, pump pumps it to the radiator in the room, the fan blows through it cooling off the air.

Sound good on paper.


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 14, 2008)

Sounds interesting on paper, I have a feeling though it would be highly ineffcient...


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 14, 2008)

my only thought is that it might not be able to move enough heat out of the reservoir in the fridge. if you find an evaporative fridge from a camper, those are extremely efficient. they only have to power a little heating element in the back, no compressor. but not sure if they can move heat as quickly as one with a compressor.

I had a similar idea once. I got it from reading about a university in texas or someplace. the air outside is cooler and makes air conditioners run more efficiently at night then during the day, so they put in huge holding tanks for water under ground. they cool the water all night (also being off peek hours) then pull that water from the tanks during the day to cool the buildings. they save hundreds of thousands a year doing this.

my idea was to use an upright freezer and antifreeze in tanks inside the freezer. cool the water at night then pull it into the house during the day. it never left the paper. not really practical, and don't know if it would actually save any money. but a small cube fridge to cool a grow room might work well.


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 14, 2008)

Please try it, and document it if possible...


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 14, 2008)

Keep in mind that during the 12 hors of off it has a lot of time to recoup. Plus if it flows fast through the radiator, there is little temp drop of the water. Also is dependent on res vs radiator vs room size (and room temp)
Air flow across the radiator and water flow through the radiator are independent of each other.

I plan on trying it. I have everything but the fridge. 
(people are using them to chill hydro res)


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## Dr Jones (Jul 14, 2008)

Hi M8, wondering if you're clued up on power cnsumption. I just installed an ac unit and intend to run it all day. It replaces 2 fans and a heater that was on for 8 out of 12 dark hours. My question is; in terms of percentage, how much more juice am i going to go through if any with these changes?


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 14, 2008)

Dr Jones said:


> Hi M8, wondering if you're clued up on power cnsumption. I just installed an ac unit and intend to run it all day. It replaces 2 fans and a heater that was on for 8 out of 12 dark hours. My question is; in terms of percentage, how much more juice am i going to go through if any with these changes?



Check my sig. You can tweak your whole room


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## skywalker1 (Jul 16, 2008)

In my new place theres a 20 amp breaker in the room I want to convert to a growroom and on the other side of the wall theres an outlet for the oven.If the oven is also on its own 20 amp could I run 3 600's on the rooms breaker and one 300 and all the fans,blower on the 20 amp on the other side of the wall?How do you tell if the wiring in your house is old or faulty?Should I get an electric clamp meter to tell me where im at regarding my amp usage?


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 16, 2008)

The stove is actually probally 40 amp, and it is on 240v.

The outlets in the room that you say are on a 20 amp breaker are probally 120 volts.

This is vital in running your room.

You can power 120v appliances off the room and possibly the lights if they are 240v compatable off the stove outlet, with some modification....

Check your box to see if your stove is on 20 amp, 30 amp, 40amp breaker.
And it will be on 240v, no matter what...

You could turn off power, undo the recep, hook on a normal 20 amp 240v recep and run that into the room behind the stove....


The main thing to remeber is the VOLTAGE that is being supplied...


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## jimmyspaz (Jul 16, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> The outlets in the room that you say are on a 20 amp breaker are probally 120 amp.


 *120 volts right? I know you were stoned, when you typed that,I've done the same thing myself.
*


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 16, 2008)

jimmyspaz said:


> *120 volts right? I know you were stoned, when you typed that,I've done the same thing myself.
> *


HAHA yeah good catch, thats what happens when last night was your birthday and you get really wasted....

Thanks Jimmy...


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 16, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> HAHA yeah good catch, thats what happens when last night was your birthday and you get really wasted....



sweet. good times.. happy birthday


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## jimmyspaz (Jul 16, 2008)

*Well it was obvious from context what you meant, but we have to be careful,a lot of people reading this don't have electrical training and need simple directions,, keep up the good work on this thread, noobs need a place to ask basic questions, electricity is unforgiving of errors after all,,,*


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## B4 Time (Jul 19, 2008)

First off, A big thank you to the folks who help me in my last question.
My wiring is as follows, Two one ten lines into a sub panel with two 20 amp breakers. (separate) From there it goes in to my control box. The control box as of now has one one ten line running in to a bus block with the other one ten line capped with wire nuts (<unused for now) In to the bus bar is the "Hot" line and below that is the common (white) line, The ground goes to a grounded block (four multiple grounds, Block grounded to metal control box) 

From the bus bar I have separate lines run for each circuit (12 GA.) One circuit is timed, One circuit is switch controlled, and one is constant on.

Both the timed circuit and the switch controled circuit are hooked to these. See below pick.












Well not those but the same, with a single circuit. Some times, and not All the the time they emit a loud hum. Why is this? Is it that I wired them wrong? I have the timer and switch Hot to the side pole (12 GA) and a larger 8 GA. to the main circuit.

Where did I go wrong? 

Or...... are they just about to burn out? I had some others that were burnt out, are these about to go the same way? 

As always thanks again


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## CustomHydro (Jul 19, 2008)

I have a 350 watt metal halide pulse start ballasts. Can I use any of the ballast parts for a 400 watt ballast? (like the ignitor, etc...)

_*GG, it's good to see u still holding down the fort. This should be a section not a thread. *People should be on there knees kiss-ass, it used to be really hard to get good electrical advice, especially as fast as you respond to the ?'s _


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## greatwhitehunter (Jul 19, 2008)

1000 watt on 24 is like 92$ so 12/12 would be around 45 or so.


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 19, 2008)

CustomHydro said:


> I have a 350 watt metal halide pulse start ballasts. Can I use any of the ballast parts for a 400 watt ballast? (like the ignitor, etc...)
> 
> _*GG, it's good to see u still holding down the fort. This should be a section not a thread. *People should be on there knees kiss-ass, it used to be really hard to get good electrical advice, especially as fast as you respond to the ?'s _



Thanks you Custom,

So from what I can gather, your pulse start ballast uses a Ignitor as opposed to a probe start inside the MH bulb, essentially I think you can get a simple 400 watt Ignitor and be fine.

Information is rather scarce about replacement parts and swappage regarding pulse start.


But I think it should work fine.


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## CustomHydro (Jul 20, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Thanks you Custom,
> 
> So from what I can gather, your pulse start ballast uses a Ignitor as opposed to a probe start inside the MH bulb, essentially I think you can get a simple 400 watt Ignitor and be fine.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for checking into that for me..!


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## B4 Time (Jul 20, 2008)

Any one got any thoughts on my situation? Why the switches emit such a loud hum sometimes?

As always thank you.


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 20, 2008)

B4 Time said:


> Any one got any thoughts on my situation? Why the switches emit such a loud hum sometimes?
> 
> As always thank you.


The relay makes the noise? You have the timer wired into the coil of the relay and the line and load wires of the relay on the NO contacts?
Odd for relay coil to make noise.

Timer
120 N
| |
{}{}{}{}

From breaker box
120 N Line
| |
| |
\ \
\ \
| |
| |
| | Load


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## B4 Time (Jul 20, 2008)

This is how it's wired, Is this right?
Thanks so much for your help.


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## BigBudBalls (Jul 20, 2008)

B4 Time said:


> This is how it's wired, Is this right?
> Thanks so much for your help.


Can't tell. not enough info.

Looking at the 'switch' (aka: relay)
From the first pic. (top view) Hook the lamp to one side (hot and common) Then to the wall on the other side. (hot and common)

Then on the second pic, those two spade terminals are for the coil. The timer's output go to these. Now I see them on both sides of the relay. You will need an ohm meter and figure out which are which. a reading of 0 ohms (dead short) and those are NOT the two you want to connect the timer to. If they read some resistance (150ohms is a normal resistance for a coil in 24VDC.)
Make it 'click' from the timer/coil first with nothing else hooked up. Then hook the lamp to it. 

Standard word of caution: Please turn off the power before each wiring change.


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## B4 Time (Jul 20, 2008)

Hmmm..... It sounds like I have it wired right. Both spade connectors are the same terminal. 

It all works just fine, it just makes a hum sometimes...
Let me get a pick of the actual wiring, one sec.

Thanks again


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## widowmaker182 (Jul 20, 2008)

kushmonster said:


> I've been a member here for almost a month now and I see alot of people asking electrical questions...
> 
> I've been an Electrician for about 10yrs now so if someone has a question pertaining to electrical or wiring, I'll be happy to help if I can


 where do u live m8?


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## B4 Time (Jul 20, 2008)

Sub Panel 





Two one ten lines, Common, and Ground.
One one ten line unused for now. Not sure why the pick wont rotate?

Power into control box.





Hot
Common
Hot 

Ground to strip on bottom of pick

Relay





Yellow is hot in.
Blue is hot out to timer motor.
Blue under that is hot out to timed circuit.
Red is hot in from timed circuit 
White is common in from timer motor.
Black is hot out of the relay, into a G.F.I. outlet 
The ground on the G.F.I. Goes in to the ground strip in the control box, The white commons are tied together and run back to the main common ("bus block"?) 

I would be easy just to change out the relay for another one.
Should I just change it out and see if it hums as well?
Thanks you so much, I just dont want to screw this up and burn down the house .


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## CustomHydro (Jul 22, 2008)

B4 Time said:


> I would be easy just to change out the relay for another one.
> Should I just change it out and see if it hums as well?
> Thanks you so much, I just dont want to screw this up and burn down the house .


This is what I would do. If it hums then u know u have a prob


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## lorenzo08 (Jul 22, 2008)

CustomHydro said:


> This is what I would do. If it hums then u know u have a prob



it could be perfectly normal. it is a high voltage ac relay. it has a magnet in it that changes polarity 120 times per second, which causes the hum. there may be a specific capacitor or other part that is made to help with this problem. maybe something called a choke. they are used in light dimmers to dampen hum and line noise.

if it's working and nothing is overheating, then it should be fine to continue using it.


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## B4 Time (Jul 22, 2008)

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You.....

May hap now I can sleep. I did change the relay out for a new one, It hums as well.
Heres some more rep for y'all.


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## rangman983 (Aug 10, 2008)

how bout a simple way of bypassing the ignitor in my hps ballast to run mh? i got from the ballast red, blue, and black wires.
From the ignitor, red, white, and blue.
And from the socket is white and black.
Anybody no of how i could bypass it?


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## pobamela (Sep 1, 2008)

Help me in this...
It's quite simple...https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/104801-wiring-easy-help.html


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## powerplant (Sep 4, 2008)

wasub, 
i bought a 400 watt HPS lighting system, lamp, ballast, reflector and all.
the problem is that where i bought it from the Nominal Voltage is 220 and the Frequency of Current is 50.
I want to take this system with me to canada where the Nominal Voltage is 120/240 and the Frequency of Current is 60, i was wondering if its gonna work or if i need an Inverter or some type of adapter. and how i can make it work... 
thanks
current


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## CustomHydro (Sep 4, 2008)

I think it will work fine. Run it off the 240volt. I stress the word think!
I don't have a clue about frequency. so... that may or may not be an issue.
As far as the voltage goes though, u should be fine...


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## powerplant (Sep 4, 2008)

CustomHydro said:


> I think it will work fine. Run it off the 240volt. I stress the word think!
> I don't have a clue about frequency. so... that may or may not be an issue.
> As far as the voltage goes though, u should be fine...


respects.....


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## mebesideme (Sep 4, 2008)

powerplant said:


> wasub,
> i bought a 400 watt HPS lighting system, lamp, ballast, reflector and all.
> the problem is that where i bought it from the Nominal Voltage is 220 and the Frequency of Current is 50.
> I want to take this system with me to canada where the Nominal Voltage is 120/240 and the Frequency of Current is 60, i was wondering if its gonna work or if i need an Inverter or some type of adapter. and how i can make it work...
> ...


I am in the electrical field for my day job as well, just wanted to chime in on this. I don't think you can use your ballast in Canada my friend. I know of several countries where the voltage standard is 220 and that is just one phase of power. The actual voltage in the services there is called 230/400. 

Your ballast is a 120/240 ballast, meaning that you can plug in for single phase use in a standard 120v outlet. OR, you can get a different plug end and cord that has two hots and uses 240 volts between the two phases.

So, if you try plugging the ballast in on a single phase or a two phase receptacle, it will not receive a high enough voltage to operate correctly.


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## ganjagoddess (Sep 4, 2008)

Dude you are so wrong...

220-240v is essentially the same thing, the are both dipole.

And You cant just change plug ends and presto things are all good...

You say you work in the electrical field.... no offense but I hope you dont actually have to do the work...


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## mebesideme (Sep 4, 2008)

What is "dipole"? I have been told by many people that the plugs in europe use one hot and one neutral, I may be wrong though. And I might add, insulting someone is not usually a way to continue intelligent conversation. Just saying you thought I was wrong would have sufficed. Also, the CORRECT voltage in most of Europe traditionally is called 230 volt, and in my post above I accidentally put 220/400 instead of 230/400.


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## powerplant (Sep 4, 2008)

> I am in the electrical field for my day job as well, just wanted to chime in on this. I don't think you can use your ballast in Canada my friend. I know of several countries where the voltage standard is 220 and that is just one phase of power. The actual voltage in the services there is called 220/400.
> 
> Your ballast is a 120/240 ballast, meaning that you can plug in for single phase use in a standard 120v outlet. OR, you can get a different plug end and cord that has two hots and uses 240 volts between the two phases.
> 
> So, if you try plugging the ballast in on a single phase or a two phase receptacle, it will not receive a high enough voltage to operate correctly.


Hey man, thanks for your information, can you make it clear for me? what do i have to do to make this work?


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## powerplant (Sep 4, 2008)

by the way, it says 230V-50HZ on the ballast.


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## mebesideme (Sep 4, 2008)

I have been studying through a couple of books. 230/400 IS the commercial standard of Europe that is found on a three phase system there. Also, read this:

WikiAnswers - What is the standard European household voltage and ampreage

It states that the voltage of 230 is found between one hot phase and one neutral phase or a ground, indicating that a single leg or phase of power for a 220 or 230 volt European device uses a neutral to complete the phase wave. It also says it is very uncommon to see a "2" phase system at a residence there, unless it has been split to "120/220" single phase for tourists.

to get 240 volts in America or Canada, you must check between two different 120 volt phases of power. Testing between one hot and one neutral or ground derives the standard single phase voltage, 120.

In conclusion, I was correct, you cannot plug your 230 volt ballast into anything but a European to American type power converter in Canada.


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 4, 2008)

powerplant said:


> Hey man, thanks for your information, can you make it clear for me? what do i have to do to make this work?



Just hit up Light bulbs, Rope Lights, Halogen and Fluorescent bulb - 1000-Bulbs - The Light Bulb Superstore and get a new ballast for the unit. They sell multitap ballast. Just open up what you got, replace with a new 120/60Hz ballast and go. Reuse your box/cables etc. Will probably have to change to a north american plug for the wall end too.

(your ballast might already be a multitap. Take a peek)

This isn't a digital, is it?


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 4, 2008)

wtf? people, if you don't know what you're talking about, don't try to give electrical advice.

does anyone here know what 1 and 3 phase really is? I have never heard of 2 phase being delivered to a building. it wouldn't make sense, it's the nature of the beast to need the 3rd phase to make it useful. I've also never heard of 3 phase for residential use. this is not something you need to worry about, ever. all homes are always 1 phase, and this has nothing to do with voltage.

frequency.. a lot of times things are designed to be used on either 50hz or 60hz. there isn't much of a difference. if anything, the ballast might perform better with the higher frequency current.

if the ballast is rated for 220 volts, you CAN use it on a 220 volt source. the country you're in doesn't matter, the voltage does. the difference is we usually have 220 with a center neutral wire and 2 hots on either side. your ballast would just be hooked up with one of the hots as a neutral and the other hot as a hot, and probably a ground. the other neutral wire from your power source wouldn't be used. anyone think I'm wrong?


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## mebesideme (Sep 4, 2008)

I do, actually. In America, we get a wire from the city's power grid that carries a neutral and two hot phases. The colors are black, red, and white. It is called single phase 120/240. It actually has 2 different AC phases. This allows us to run appliances from our houses that use either: 1 phase of power(120v) and one neutral or 2 phases of power(240v) and no neutral. It is called single phase because the degree of separation of the vectors of the phases is zero; so, we can simply add together the indivudal voltages and get 240. The neutral wire is attached to both transformers for the other wires and thus allows you to use it and either of the phases individually to get 120 volts. I am leaving out more complicated explanations here about the neutral and it correlation with the hot phases because it simply isn't relevant. In Europe, you simply have one true phase of 230 volts and one neutral going in, and thus you can't get the 230 to split without a transformer.


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 4, 2008)

mebesideme said:


> I do, actually. In America, we get a wire from the city's power grid that carries a neutral and two hot phases. The colors are black, red, and white. It is called single phase 120/240. It actually has 2 different AC phases. This allows us to run appliances from our houses that use either: 1 phase of power(120v) and one neutral or 2 phases of power(240v) and no neutral.


that's a slight missunderstanding. that's not what 2 phase is. the white wire is your neutral, and the black and red are your hot wires, but it's still single phase. one hot wire has the exact opposite ac phase of the other, but still the same. 3 phase is actually 3 seperate ac wave forms, each off-set by 1/3 of a wave. this is 3 phase





Three-phase electric power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 4, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> wtf? people, if you don't know what you're talking about, don't try to give electrical advice.
> 
> does anyone here know what 1 and 3 phase really is? I have never heard of 2 phase being delivered to a building. it wouldn't make sense, it's the nature of the beast to need the 3rd phase to make it useful. I've also never heard of 3 phase for residential use. this is not something you need to worry about, ever. all homes are always 1 phase, and this has nothing to do with voltage.


I feel fine giving out advice.

3 phase = 3 hot wires (we'll say 277VAC). Each one 120 degrees out of phase. A measurement between any two phases should be 480VAC on a 277 per phase. 
Math would be (VoltagePerPhase x 2)- (.5 * phase difference)
So (277*2) - (.5 * 30%) = 470.9
Any phase to ground/neutral will be 277 in a Wye system. On a delta things can be rather odd. Wild leg, or grounded leg Deltas are uncommon but still used in the states.

I the US/Canada 220 is made with 2 phases (they just don't call it 2 phase) Its 2 120 VAC 180 degrees out. Math makes it 240VAC

In EURPOE the 230VAC is a single phase One 230VAC line and neutral/ground.



> frequency.. a lot of times things are designed to be used on either 50hz or 60hz. there isn't much of a difference. if anything, the ballast might perform better with the higher frequency current.
> 
> if the ballast is rated for 220 volts, you CAN use it on a 220 volt source. the country you're in doesn't matter, the voltage does. the difference is we usually have 220 with a center neutral wire and 2 hots on either side. your ballast would just be hooked up with one of the hots as a neutral and the other hot as a hot, and probably a ground. the other neutral wire from your power source wouldn't be used. anyone think I'm wrong?



Probably work. But if the neutral leg into the primary coil is tied to any grounding, core, case, etc) it would have to be removed.

And if the igniter or cap are wired leg to ground they are getting only 1/2 voltage.


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## mebesideme (Sep 4, 2008)

Wow, everything I have said has been repeated. It WON'T work. Get a new ballast like dude above said.


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 4, 2008)

It IS what 2 phase is. BUT, the 120/240 in the us is 2 120 legs . phases, but 1/2 wave out.

for US 220/240
When leg A is at +120 leg B is at -120

You are showing us 3 phase below.



lorenzo08 said:


> that's a slight missunderstanding. that's not what 2 phase is. the white wire is your neutral, and the black and red are your hot wires, but it's still single phase. one hot wire has the exact opposite ac phase of the other, but still the same. 3 phase is actually 3 seperate ac wave forms, each off-set by 1/3 of a wave. this is 3 phase
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## mebesideme (Sep 4, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> that's a slight missunderstanding. that's not what 2 phase is. the white wire is your neutral, and the black and red are your hot wires, but it's still single phase. one hot wire has the exact opposite ac phase of the other, but still the same. 3 phase is actually 3 seperate ac wave forms, each off-set by 1/3 of a wave. this is 3 phase
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The graph you have shown is not relevant to the conversation. Three phase is 120/208 power. In these systems, if you test between two of the phases you get 208 volts. See my previous post for info about "single" phase systems in the US versus Europe.


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## mebesideme (Sep 4, 2008)

Wow BigBudBalls, I think we are on the same phase, lol


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 4, 2008)

if you want to think of it that way sure, it can be called 2 phase. technically that is right. but I have never seen it properly called 2 phase before. true 2 phase wouldn't be of much use, there for, doesn't exist in residential or commercial distributions. it's really just single phase 220 with a center neutral.


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## ganjagoddess (Sep 4, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> wtf? people, if you don't know what you're talking about, don't try to give electrical advice.


Just leave the advice giving to BBB.

Sorry I "insulted" you med.


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 4, 2008)

I've noticed how hard it is to give good electrical advice on here.. there are so many different variables and brands and minor things that can go wrong and cause complete disasters.. I try to give the best advice I can, but it's often advice that would work for me and I'd fix the "small" problems on the fly as they came up. but trying to give advice to someone else is much more difficult.


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 4, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> if you want to think of it that way sure, it can be called 2 phase. technically that is right. but I have never seen it properly called 2 phase before. true 2 phase wouldn't be of much use, there for, doesn't exist in residential or commercial distributions. it's really just single phase 220 with a center neutral.



Tell me what *true* 2 phase is. I'm listening.


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 4, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> I've noticed how hard it is to give good electrical advice on here.. there are so many different variables and brands and minor things that can go wrong and cause complete disasters.. I try to give the best advice I can, but it's often advice that would work for me and I'd fix the "small" problems on the fly as they came up. but trying to give advice to someone else is much more difficult.


I think it was more the comment that gangagoddess quoted.
(put the stones down?  )


In general I've like your posts and usually spot on. But this one just isn't. And to preface it with that comment is kinda humorous.

Now onto more fun stuff.

If I've read you right, I'd guess you play with PICs or other microcontrolers?


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 4, 2008)

BigBudBalls said:


> Tell me what *true* 2 phase is. I'm listening.



3 phase has multiple phases, each offset by 1/3, or 120 degrees as you said. the point of it is to always have one of the waves at or near the strongest voltage. 1 phase voltage crosses 0 volts 100 or 120 times per second. 3 phase never hits 0 volts, so it's not vulnerable in that sense. 2 phase doesn't exist, unless you consider the residential power we have in the states to be 2 phase. I'm just saying, technically, 2 phase is 2 waves, 0 and 180 degrees, but in the electrical field, doesn't exist. 1 and 2 phase power still both cross 0 volts 100 or 120 times per second.


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 4, 2008)

BigBudBalls said:


> I think it was more the comment that gangagoddess quoted.
> (put the stones down?  )
> 
> In general I've like your posts and usually spot on. But this one just isn't. And to preface it with that comment is kinda humorous.


I'm glad if you find me humorous, thanks. lol

if I offended anyone, I apologize. when I read the new posts in the thread, everything just sounded so far off.


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## mebesideme (Sep 4, 2008)

Wow, we finally all agree??? Oh and a link or two to true 2 phase power systems:

Two-phase electric power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2 Phase Power Systems and Two-Phase Electric Solutions

I have talked to a guy in Jersey before who has worked with this stuff.


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 4, 2008)

this website has a history of 2 phase. I never read about it before. it sounds like true 2 phase was used in the 1800's. it has 4 hot wires and uses 2 separate feeds, one pair of hot's each. I can't say I understand how that could be more useful then 2 hots and a neutral.

2 Phase Power Systems and Two-Phase Electric Solutions


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 4, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> 3 phase has multiple phases, each offset by 1/3, or 120 degrees as you said.


And residential has 2 phases of 120 offset by 180



> the point of it is to always have one of the waves at or near the strongest voltage. 1 phase voltage crosses 0 volts 100 or 120 times per second. 3 phase never hits 0 volts, so it's not vulnerable in that sense.


And? Its a result of the phasing of the cycles.
How does a freq drive work on an AC motor? It regulates the phasing between legs along with base freq.



> 2 phase doesn't exist, unless you consider the residential power we have in the states to be 2 phase. I'm just saying, technically, 2 phase is 2 waves, 0 and 180 degrees, but in the electrical field, doesn't exist.


Why isn't it 2 phase? Its 2 legs with different cycles from each other. They are considered 'out of phase' 



> 1 and 2 phase power still both cross 0 volts 100 or 120 times per second.


We measure the peek to peek. Euro measures peak to ground.
So Euro swings +230 to -230 while we swing +120 an -120


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## powerplant (Sep 4, 2008)

im very confused, you know what? im only gonna get a new plug and try it out for myself to see if it works as soon as i get to Toronto...
thanks alot everyone.


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## ganjagoddess (Sep 7, 2008)

I love electrician debates.

Oh and lorenzo, that quote was not aimed at you. I find BBB and you very helpful.


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## impwiz (Sep 8, 2008)

I have an electrical question regarding a fan and how to power it. Any more input would be appreciated. thanks! Here's the link.


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## Hairy Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

Heres one, is there any way I can wire a thermostat to a desk fan with variable speed so the thermostat switches the fan from its low speed to its high speed? It's just an el cheapo 12" oscilator with three buttons for the speed. Any ideas?


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 11, 2008)

Hairy Bob said:


> Heres one, is there any way I can wire a thermostat to a desk fan with variable speed so the thermostat switches the fan from its low speed to its high speed? It's just an el cheapo 12" oscilator with three buttons for the speed. Any ideas?


possible, but I wouldn't say it's a beginner project. most are low voltage wall stats that connect to a relay that allows switching of much higher voltages and currents. you wouldn't need a very big relay. the relay is essentially just a switch that is activated by a magnet hooked up to the wall thermostat. it would switch the fan to high when it kicks on.

probably much easier to just leave one fan on low and have a second fan on high on some kind of thermostat


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## highwayman (Sep 11, 2008)

would i beable to run a 600watt hps and fans in the one power bar on a outdoor digital timer? the extension chord comes from an outlet outside my house would it be enough power? and there will be one 12" fan 3 cpu fans hooked up to a adapter 1 squirl cage fan for exhaust and another fan for an inlet for air... will this be enough ventilation in the room for 6 plants? the room is 3'x2'x9' (width x depth x height)


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## royalgreen (Sep 11, 2008)

okay i have just ordered in a flip flop relay for my 1000watt lights so i can run two rooms off of 1 ballast on a 12/12 in each room...i'm just not sure about the timer deal :S 
the relay is a Bulletin 700-HG &#8220;Power&#8221; Relay. do you know of it? if so could you draw me a diagram of what goes where...


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## highwayman (Sep 11, 2008)

would i beable to run a 600watt hps and fans in the one power bar on a outdoor digital timer? the extension chord comes from an outlet outside my house would it be enough power? and there will be one 12" fan 3 cpu fans hooked up to a adapter 1 squirl cage fan for exhaust and another fan for an inlet for air... will this be enough ventilation in the room for 6 plants? the room is 3'x2'x9' (width x depth x height)


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 11, 2008)

royalgreen said:


> okay i have just ordered in a flip flop relay for my 1000watt lights so i can run two rooms off of 1 ballast on a 12/12 in each room...i'm just not sure about the timer deal :S
> the relay is a Bulletin 700-HG &#8220;Power&#8221; Relay. do you know of it? if so could you draw me a diagram of what goes where...



the ballast gets plugged into a normal outlet and stays powered on. the relay plugs into the timer where the ballast "used to be". the relay will be turned on and off on a 12/12 cycle and will switch the single ballast between rooms. understand that? good luck and lots of bud


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 11, 2008)

highwayman said:


> would i beable to run a 600watt hps and fans in the one power bar on a outdoor digital timer? the extension chord comes from an outlet outside my house would it be enough power? and there will be one 12" fan 3 cpu fans hooked up to a adapter 1 squirl cage fan for exhaust and another fan for an inlet for air... will this be enough ventilation in the room for 6 plants? the room is 3'x2'x9' (width x depth x height)



here are 2 options. you can either plug it in and give it a try. hope you don't have any problems with it. or you can look into it further and add up the power usage of everything. can one breaker handle what you're putting on it? my guess is it should be fine, but can't know for sure without more details.


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## royalgreen (Sep 11, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> the ballast gets plugged into a normal outlet and stays powered on. the relay plugs into the timer where the ballast "used to be". the relay will be turned on and off on a 12/12 cycle and will switch the single ballast between rooms. understand that? good luck and lots of bud



so even tho my timmer has an off swtich it should just turn the other one on :S????or is there another timer that i need to buy??


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 11, 2008)

royalgreen said:


> so even tho my timmer has an off swtich it should just turn the other one on :S????or is there another timer that i need to buy??


the ballast doesn't plug into a timer, it just gets plugged right into the wall outlet and stays powered 24/7. the relay should have a power cord on it to activate/deactivate it, that plugs into your 12/12 timer so it knows when to switch the light between rooms. how is that? did I explain it better? lol


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 11, 2008)

here's an example

when the timer is on, room A will be lit and room B will be dark
when the timer turns off and the relay deactivates, room A will be dark and room B will be lit


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 11, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> here's an example
> 
> when the timer is on, room A will be lit and room B will be dark
> when the timer turns off and the relay deactivates, room A will be dark and room B will be lit


Just wanna add in that the 2 bulb cords get plugged into the relay.
One bulb to the NO (normally open) set and the other to the NC normally closed contacts.

(Oh dang! thats an AB part? part number is the price! AB make good stuff, but really pricey new) That part comes in a lot of configurations. Check the coil voltage of *yours* Its also listed aas SPST to DPDT. DPDT is what he needs.

700-HG42A1
is the part number for a DPDT relay with 120VAC coil.


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## royalgreen (Sep 12, 2008)

thanks guy's you been a big help. and thank you for the head's up on the price thing that should really help do to the fact that i need 3 of the dam thing's...starting a stadium grow wish me luck....

BUMP..........ahhh that taste good


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 12, 2008)

royalgreen said:


> thanks guy's you been a big help. and thank you for the head's up on the price thing that should really help do to the fact that i need 3 of the dam thing's...starting a stadium grow wish me luck....
> 
> BUMP..........ahhh that taste good


a stadium grow?


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## royalgreen (Sep 16, 2008)

hey guys thank you for the help with the flip flop relay...i got a new one for yea...i need to make a vertical mover to make my lights go up and down...i was thinking a simple pulley system that allows me to move the lights up/down like so.High Tech Garden Supply. but i need it to be automatic. is there some kinda sensor that i can put on there to stop and then make it go up to a point???


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 17, 2008)

royalgreen said:


> hey guys thank you for the help with the flip flop relay...i got a new one for yea...i need to make a vertical mover to make my lights go up and down...i was thinking a simple pulley system that allows me to move the lights up/down like so.High Tech Garden Supply. but i need it to be automatic. is there some kinda sensor that i can put on there to stop and then make it go up to a point???



Light mover are simple in concept but the mechanics can be tough for a DIY project.

One idea is get a threaded rod and a DC motor (AC motors don't reverse easily) A switch at either end that reverses the polarity of the motor.

Another idea is to use a roller chain and weld a 'dog' onto it to pull the lamp.

Having the use of a machineshop will help greatly. Otherwise its going to be a lot of JB weld 

Now a threaded rod isn't the best for a leadscrew, but it will work for us low budget folks.


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 17, 2008)

BigBudBalls said:


> Light mover are simple in concept but the mechanics can be tough for a DIY project.
> One idea is get a threaded rod and a DC motor (AC motors don't reverse easily) A switch at either end that reverses the polarity of the motor.
> Another idea is to use a roller chain and weld a 'dog' onto it to pull the lamp.



"vertical mover" as in automatic height adjustment. I think that's what they meant 

not easy to do, or necessary either. just go check on the plants every few days and adjust the light manually. I use a simple chain from walmart and put hooks on the lights.

if you really want it automatic, I would mount a few sensors on the light. once a day, have the light raise up a few inches then drop back down until one of the sensors is tripped. maybe infrared or ultrasonic.

I've had my own thoughts about a horizontal light mover. just something simple like a carrage to carry the light, then a string or chain to a mini dc wench type thing. a small switch on each end of the track connected to a relay. actually, I had to do something like this back in high school years ago. I built a small elevator out of knex, with a string to a small motor, then 2 switches to a relay. it went up and down without stopping. just have to jump off quick when you get to your floor.


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## gusthacat (Sep 17, 2008)

For the people who were asking about using 240 volts to save electricity as opposed to 120volts , your answer is no it does not save. your meter measures watts or power . power is the same no matter how you slice it, 400 watts is still 400 watts no matter what the voltage is. the reason higher voltages are used ie. 240v , 277v, and 480v is that with lighting you can get more lights on a circuit because they pull less amps when you apply a higher voltage


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 17, 2008)

I think a few of those touch sensors wired up as an 'OR' could work




lorenzo08 said:


> "vertical mover" as in automatic height adjustment. I think that's what they meant
> 
> not easy to do, or necessary either. just go check on the plants every few days and adjust the light manually. I use a simple chain from walmart and put hooks on the lights.
> 
> ...


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 17, 2008)

gusthacat said:


> For the people who were asking about using 240 volts to save electricity as opposed to 120volts , your answer is no it does not save. your meter measures watts or power . power is the same no matter how you slice it, 400 watts is still 400 watts no matter what the voltage is. the reason higher voltages are used ie. 240v , 277v, and 480v is that with lighting you can get more lights on a circuit because they pull less amps when you apply a higher voltage


The higher voltage is more force for motors and less copper in the wiring; aka cost savings. Inrush currents, resistive vs inductive loads will play into things too.

Come across peak and demand metering? Spike a meter and jump a rate scale level or so for the rest of the month. (illegal but still done in the states)

Look at European machine wiring. They use a higher temp on the insulation so then can pull a few more amps for the same gauge wire.
(been through the US inspections of Euro equipment a few times. 3 day inspection.s They went over everything.)

240 vs 120 will save. Won't notice it in any bill, even over a year, but it is a 'tic' more efficient. So for real life, nope. no diff.

277 lights are used because a plants are wired for 480. And 277 is just a single leg of 480. So its 3 sets/runs of lights per single 480 3 phase breaker.

Haven't come across anyone using 480 lamps in a plant. And if they are I'd bet its because they are a Grounded Leg Delta vs Wye 480 system. (no 277 in that system.)


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 17, 2008)

BigBudBalls said:


> The higher voltage is more force for motors and less copper in the wiring; aka cost savings. Inrush currents, resistive vs inductive loads will play into things too.
> 
> Come across peak and demand metering? Spike a meter and jump a rate scale level or so for the rest of the month. (illegal but still done in the states)
> 
> ...


you lost me at "the"


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## NoDrama (Sep 17, 2008)

I have a friend who has Aluminum wiring in his home, I told him he should replace it, he says its ok, who is right? IMO Aluminum would be prone to catching fire?


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 17, 2008)

NoDrama said:


> I have a friend who has Aluminum wiring in his home, I told him he should replace it, he says its ok, who is right? IMO Aluminum would be prone to catching fire?



Aluminum wire has a bad rap.
Main prob is that it expands and contracts quite a bit with heat. (using the outlet will warm the wiring) This tends to loosen the connectors at the outlets, switches, breakers, etc. When they are loose, they can arc across the gap and possible create a fire.

(and yes this is possible. my childhood house burned down from this)

Aluminum will also oxidize and basically create the above scenario.

(and anodizing aluminum creates a layer of aluminum oxide on the surface of the aluminum. That is non conductive)

Aluminum wiring isn't up to the NEC these days as far as I know. Went out in the 70s


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 18, 2008)

royalgreen said:


> hey guys thank you for the help with the flip flop relay...i got a new one for yea...i need to make a vertical mover to make my lights go up and down...i was thinking a simple pulley system that allows me to move the lights up/down like so.High Tech Garden Supply. but i need it to be automatic. is there some kinda sensor that i can put on there to stop and then make it go up to a point???



OK, if its a light mover to run all the time (aka go up and down to reach them lower plants) And its a cooltube/vertical bulb style, I think I figured it out on the easy.

Have the lamp with some weight. Maybe even a soft bungee cord affixed to the floor and bottom of lamp. Then use an AC syncro motor (they are cheap, like $5 and turn real slow from .5rpm to 20 rpm) Attach a wheel to the motor, attach a cord to the edge of the wheel. Run the cord up and down to lamp. As the wheel spins, it will pull the cord raising it. Then down on the second 180 of the wheel. Just use some type of swivel to attach the cord to the wheel otherwise you will twist the cord.

The bungee will pull it back down and also keep it from swinging into the plants.

(looks good on paper)


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## ganjagoddess (Sep 18, 2008)

Thats an interesting idea, if the motor has enough strength to load the bungee with any force...

Could be that the motor wont even be able to stretch the cord at all, after all your talking about a really cheap motor.


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## ganjagoddess (Sep 18, 2008)

Why not just buy a $109 Hydrofarm linear light mover, and mount it vertical... use a pulley and some metal cable and viola!!!!

Actually you can mount it any way you want, just attatch a cord to it, through a pulley, and to the light fixture....


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 18, 2008)

maybe a counter weight would help a normal light mover move a light vertically


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## la9 (Sep 18, 2008)

You are thing too hard trying to add sensors for up and down. You just need a CAM and let it rotate and then you don't have to worry about what happens when a sensor fails.

I'll try to describe the best I can if it doesn't come out clear we can make some more attempts to make it understandable.

I imagine a gear on a motor. Drill a hole thru the gear close to the outside edge. Put a bolt or something thru the hole and tighten it down. Might think about using a bearing also. Hang your light on that. Use a Low RPM motor and you should be good. As the gear spins around the hole goes thru an up and down motion.

Make sense or not ?


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## la9 (Sep 18, 2008)

Here is a high quality picture I did myself to explain what I was talking about, hope it helps.


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 18, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Thats an interesting idea, if the motor has enough strength to load the bungee with any force...
> 
> Could be that the motor wont even be able to stretch the cord at all, after all your talking about a really cheap motor.


Those little syncro motors are geared and quite strong. Add in a little mechanical advantage (purchase) with some block an tackle and you are done.

Bungees on both up and down with a bias can really dial in a near zero load yet still keep on track. ( a guide wire can work too, but seems like more work)


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 18, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Why not just buy a $109 Hydrofarm linear light mover, and mount it vertical... use a pulley and some metal cable and viola!!!!
> 
> Actually you can mount it any way you want, just attatch a cord to it, through a pulley, and to the light fixture....



Just a thought (haven't looked at it. lazy stoner with no link; too lazy to do a google  ) But the linear are meant to hang a light and drag. The leverage to use on for up/down would require a counter weight (trip for fishing weights at Waly-World)

$5-7 For motor
$6 for some masonite to make wheel
$10 for rope
$6 for misc bolts, etc.
$8 for misc elect connectors and such.

(And the $400 for the power tools to pull off the above  Said the tool junkie)


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 18, 2008)

BigBudBalls said:


> Those little syncro motors are geared and quite strong. Add in a little mechanical advantage (purchase) with some block an tackle and you are done.


the diameter of the wheel would have to be about the same size as the distance you want the light to travel. a 3 foot travel distance would be a 3 foot diameter wheel. bbb might have a good solution, block and tackle. even just a single pulley would cut the diameter of the wheel in half.


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 18, 2008)

la9 said:


> You are thing too hard trying to add sensors for up and down. You just need a CAM and let it rotate and then you don't have to worry about what happens when a sensor fails.
> 
> Make sense or not ?


Already revised thought. But yup Spot on!!! 
Great minds think alike.

(us too!) lol!

Put the spot on the wheel/cam on a slot or various holes from the center point and you can adjust the travel.


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## TreeTrunkBuds (Sep 19, 2008)

hey guys, first post.

i've been wandering through these boards the past week, and the ball is in motion. i'm going to build my first cabinet. I think i have the general concept of construction down, I am just concerned about the electrical aspect. obviously, no one wants to burn the house down, you want your shit to run like its supposed to, and you want to do it in the most efficient way possible. at least i do, haha.

so, i have a closet about 3 feet deep, 8 feet wide and 7 feet tall. I think i'm going to get a 400 w lumatech hps/mh ballast that comes with the light fixture and a reflective hood. ideally, i would have duct tubing fitted with a fan running for just the light, along with another fan or two for the main compartment. The box I want to build is going to focus on one main flowering room that i'll use for everything while i get the process down, but i also want it to have a second veg room so i can beef it up once i get going, and a utility room, pretty much like TheGhost's stealth cabinet but with a 400 watt light and soil instead of hydro.

I guess my question is, what the heck do i do with all those wires? do i just get a surge protector and plug everything in to that, which plugs into my wall? something about fans losing power the more you string up? is there a way to distribute power so i dont fry anything? this is the only part that doesnt really seem intuitive for me, sorry if i come off as so noobish but its because i am, i've never done this. any help on setting up my lumatek light and the fans, with a little advice for when i expand with fluoros in the veg room would be appreciated.


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 19, 2008)

TreeTrunkBuds said:


> hey guys, first post.
> 
> i've been wandering through these boards the past week, and the ball is in motion. i'm going to build my first cabinet. I think i have the general concept of construction down, I am just concerned about the electrical aspect. obviously, no one wants to burn the house down, you want your shit to run like its supposed to, and you want to do it in the most efficient way possible. at least i do, haha.
> 
> ...


a power strip is ok to use. generally you can add up the watts of everything you're running to make sure the circuit can handle it all. a 15 amp breaker can safely handle about 1500 watts, and a 20 amp breaker can safely handle about 2000 watts. you might have other rooms on the same breaker, so whatever power is used in those rooms would count against it also. it's not fun having breakers trip in the middle of a light cycle and your plants are left in the dark for unknown hours.


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## allgino4life (Sep 19, 2008)

Hey I'm looking for some advice. Im in Canada. Im looking to run 2 1000w hps, 1 600w MH, and various vent fans and such in a friend's 2 bedrooms apartment. How do I know if i can safely plug all that in. I know not to put more than one 1000watter on a regular circuit, I was planning on just running the proper guage extension cord from various rooms. Is this smart at all? 

Also, a little later I will want to hopefully add up to 4000w hps, I know there are controllers that you plug into the 220v stove plug. Do i have to hard wire it or are there controllers that plug directly into the outlet?

Thanks alot if you can help clear up the few remaining q's I have left.


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## havefungodumb (Oct 13, 2008)

i saw this guy wire a ballest, he asked my friend if he wanted 240 or 120.. said u can connect wires different, he had 1 of those older 1000w .....

is that possible? i told him to say fuck it ...incase hes wrong....but he did wire up ballest for him and it worked


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## la9 (Oct 13, 2008)

havefungodumb said:


> i saw this guy wire a ballest, he asked my friend if he wanted 240 or 120.. said u can connect wires different, he had 1 of those older 1000w .....
> 
> is that possible? i told him to say fuck it ...incase hes wrong....but he did wire up ballest for him and it worked


 
Completely possible, it's called a multitap ballast.

You are just selecting the voltage it will run on.


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## seedfarmer123 (Oct 13, 2008)

Do i need a GFCI? with a surge protector for say a 400 watt light and fans?


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## la9 (Oct 13, 2008)

You don't need a GFCI but I would recommend one. You can get a breaker GFCI or a regular electric outlet with GFCI either one will protect the entire circuit if installed correctly. Basically what it does is shut off the electric branch if there is a ground problem anywhere. Extra Protection never hurts and at around $10 you might as well. Surge protector is up to you, but you are going to be connecting up lots of electrical things so you might as well get a surge strip, they have a smaller breaker in them and will trip sooner than the main, extra protection once again and they are about $5 and up for the 6 outlet ones. If you are thinking about battery backups then you probably won't need them because the lights and faans would run the batteries down so quick you'd probably be lucky to get 5 minutes out of them, but if the power surges a lot then it will save your HID's from shutting off and taking 10 minutes to come back on. You will have some money invested in a UPS battery backup system though.


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 14, 2008)

Surge suppressors are a joke!
All they are is a MOV. They 'wear out' anywhere from 6 months to a year. They give NO warning either. 

Now a line conditioner is something different. And a LOT more money.

A battery back up is a fine idea, just have it run a few CFLs and not the HID. That will be enough to keep the plant on sched.


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## Dr Jones (Dec 24, 2008)

Please advise if you can; I have had 3 timers short with my 400w hps. I have purchased an envirolite 22a timer and am concerned that where the timer was shorting previously, something else may burn now?


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## jimo09 (Dec 24, 2008)

I am wanting to set up a room with 240v. I have a dryer outlet about 10 feet away. Can I put a junction box in line before the dryer outlet then run romex to my room? Dryer is gas so outlet is not used. I would like to keep it however in case I sell the house later.


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## Higher Education (Dec 24, 2008)

Hey Everyone,

Any idea on how much a typical 120 volt outlet installation would be? The desired position of the outlet is about 16 feet from the breaker and it is also on the same floor so there is no need to go through any walls or floors. A good estimate is really all I am looking for. Any input is greatly appreciated!


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## TOKEMASTERFLEX (Dec 24, 2008)

jimo09 said:


> I am wanting to set up a room with 240v. I have a dryer outlet about 10 feet away. Can I put a junction box in line before the dryer outlet then run romex to my room? Dryer is gas so outlet is not used. I would like to keep it however in case I sell the house later.


 
im no electrician but i know this is easy to assemble yourself...because i did..or you can buy one already made...i have used this box in many houses...its the best thing i ever invested in...its always just three wires and the breaker for your particular fuse box...you could build it bigger if you want but i use this box with 4 220v 600w hps ballasts, 1 110v 1000w mh.I also run my oscilateing fan as well...to me this is the easiest way of adding outlets to any desired room..but thats just me i could be completely wrong...


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## stonywan (Dec 24, 2008)

my question is can you use 220 converter to run your 120 lights, and will it be cheaper ..
kiss-ass


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## stonywan (Dec 24, 2008)

I was woundering if 22o to 120 converter can be used to run lights, and will it be cheaper...


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## lorenzo08 (Dec 24, 2008)

stonywan said:


> my question is can you use 220 converter to run your 120 lights, and will it be cheaper ..


yes, you can use them, but no, they are less then 100% efficient so it would cost slightly more to run lights on a converter


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## ibeblzn (Dec 30, 2008)

I have a question pertaining to wiring CFL lights + Fixtures in parallel. I have yet to find a "CFL Parallel wiring guide for dummies" after sifting through google and various forums all afternoon.

Just completed my first grow and the lighting setup I currently have can be improved ALOT! I posted a thread a while back and it has pictures of my CFL light setup (can be found here: https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/118170-first-time-grow-looking-suggestions.html.) I have a few Y connectors connected to this other metal socket that has a white and black wire coming out from the bottom. Each Y connector is connected to just one of the metal sockets. Each of the metal sockets are then wired to a 10 or 12 gauge ext cord, could be wrong on the gauge, I don't remember the exact specifics of it.

After doing some brainstorming on how to IMPROVE my current setup, I figured creating a lighting setup running in parallel would be my biggest improvement and more likely than not, produce better quality bud.

Here's my understanding of how parallel works based off the pictures I have seen and the threads I have read. You need a source of power, such as an extension cord. This is the part i have trouble with, you strip the white and black away from each other, you know down the middle of the two, but do you actually take the wire covering off the white and black line all the way to where the white and black stop from being separated and then connect each white wire from the sockets, to the white wire on the ext. cord and same for the black? Or do you just spread the wire across where you plan to mount the lights, and cut off little slits of the wiring in the black and white( for example, say your holding a cord in your hands, and in the middle there is a slit w/o the plastic wire cover, exposing the wire inside) and then wrap the white wire from sockets into seperate slits? I hope this makes sense. After wired, you can just plug into a surge protector, and then the protector into a timer? 

I appreciate you reading this and any insight you can provide me as I make improvements to my setup!


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## lorenzo08 (Dec 30, 2008)

ibeblzn said:


> I have a question pertaining to wiring CFL lights + Fixtures in parallel. I have yet to find a "CFL Parallel wiring guide for dummies" after sifting through google and various forums all afternoon.


you sound like you have a clue of what you're doing, just need more experience. just keep in mind, safety first. not sure if you're using tape only for your connections, but you should use wire nuts/wire caps, or crimp on couplings.

wiring lights in parallel, you just match up the wire colors. the white wire in the extension cord goes to the white wires on all of the lights, and same with black. just match up the colors. you can use the same type of wire to extend the distance between the lights. like say you have an extension cord connected to a light, you can use the same type of wire to connect to that light, go a distance of 2 or 3 feet, then connect another light.

here's another idea that might improve your setup. I buy the blue plastic outlet boxes from home depot or lowes and screw 2 or 3 of them to a short piece of 2x4 wood, mounting by the back of the box so the wood can be hung on hooks and the opening on the boxes faces down. lowes here has cheap porcelain light sockets for a little over $1 each, and are really good quality. will never melt or cause a fire if wired properly. I first paint everything flat white (wood and plastic boxes) then wire and mount the light sockets on the boxes. screw in the Y socket adaptors into the porcalain sockets, then screw in the light bulbs and plug it in. if you want, you can take it another step further from there, I made V shaped reflectors out of sheet metal and used a flat white oil based spray paint to paint the inside of the reflector to reflect more light back down to the plants. 9,600 lumens with 23 watt cfl's or 15,600 lumen with 42 watt cfl's. works very well on a budget.


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## ibeblzn (Dec 30, 2008)

Ah dude Lorenzo that helps out so much! It's all coming together now. I can basically cut out 'portions' of 2-3 feet from my extension cord, and use those to connect one light to the next using both ends of said 'portion.' This makes so much more sense as I'm sitting here doodling illustrations of hooking the lights up lol. Thanks for the quick advice man I really appreciate it!


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## lorenzo08 (Dec 30, 2008)

ibeblzn said:


> Ah dude Lorenzo that helps out so much! It's all coming together now. I can basically cut out 'portions' of 2-3 feet from my extension cord, and use those to connect one light to the next using both ends of said 'portion.' This makes so much more sense as I'm sitting here doodling illustrations of hooking the lights up lol. Thanks for the quick advice man I really appreciate it!


no problem. glad you understood my long nonsensical post


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## Hulk Nugs (Dec 30, 2008)

Hey man shit your awesome helping every one out like this .....wellll i hope you can help me ....... i have been working on it all day trying differnt ways of wirring and everything i could think of but im not great with electrical so im asking for some help .....pics below of all the stuff im using.......i am trying to hook up a thermostat to a pc fan so i can controll the temp in my room.....if you need more info or have a question just let me know ......thanks for the thread......hope to hear back from you.


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## Hulk Nugs (Dec 30, 2008)

http://www.ritetemp-thermostats.com/6008.html heres the link to the thermostat they have wiring setups in there but i didnt know what they ment................


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## fat sam (Dec 30, 2008)

its not more efficent, i mean your still using 1000 watts of light, its just when you run 220 it pulls half the amps through so you can run smaller wire, but dont forget your pulling half the amps through each of 2 wires so its still the same to the meter and it wont reduce your bill


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## Hulk Nugs (Dec 30, 2008)

you talking to me fatsam i dont care about the bill i care about the temp and humidity


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## BigBudBalls (Dec 30, 2008)

Hulk Nugs said:


> Hey man shit your awesome helping every one out like this .....wellll i hope you can help me ....... i have been working on it all day trying differnt ways of wirring and everything i could think of but im not great with electrical so im asking for some help .....pics below of all the stuff im using.......i am trying to hook up a thermostat to a pc fan so i can controll the temp in my room.....if you need more info or have a question just let me know ......thanks for the thread......hope to hear back from you.


You'd be better off with the ultra old school thermostat. The old bimetal spring with a mercury switch type. The PC fan is DC and typical HVAC are 24volts AC. Or make sure the new thermostat has relay outputs, not triac (or solid state) Plus the newer HVAC thermo's need power (mine for my house is battery powered, thats good for your situation)


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## lorenzo08 (Dec 31, 2008)

Hulk Nugs said:


> Hey man shit your awesome helping every one out like this .....wellll i hope you can help me ....... i have been working on it all day trying differnt ways of wirring and everything i could think of but im not great with electrical so im asking for some help .....pics below of all the stuff im using.......i am trying to hook up a thermostat to a pc fan so i can controll the temp in my room.....if you need more info or have a question just let me know ......thanks for the thread......hope to hear back from you.


nice thermostat. it's a millivolt thermostat, it should handle the same power ratings as an old school one, about 500ma at 24 volt max. I'm not a heating/ventilation tech, so I'm taking my best stab at this. it looks like Y and RC are for cooling, so you hook one wire from the transformer and one wire from the fan to Y and RC, then the other wire from the transformer can connect right to the other wire on the fan. make sense?


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## Hulk Nugs (Dec 31, 2008)

yea i get it just one question .....does the wire from the transformer go to either y or rc or goes to both like i have to loop it so it connects to both y and rc ......or do i hook up one wire from the fan to the rc and the transformer wire to the y .....illl go give a shot see what happens there only 12v dc fans so i think i should be ok .....and i could probley hook up two fans to one thermostat with out hurtting anything right ? if it works


thanks for the info man


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## Hulk Nugs (Dec 31, 2008)

grrr alright tried it with the power wire from the fan going to the y and and the transformer wire to the rc didnt work switched it transfomer y and fan to rc didnt work grrr so i made a loop and connnected the y to the rc and hooked up one wire from the fan and one wire from the transformer twisted together and put it under the y witch was looped to the rc didnt work..... i might have blown the fan i dont know i actualy hooked up just the fan with out the thermostat didnt work switch the wires around still didnt work so i might have blown the fan ?????/  

well i have one more fan, and im going to try and return the fan that is not working anymore get a new one hehehe.....but i dont know what happend any ideas ?>???? i dont wanna give up  im not a quiter


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## havefungodumb (Dec 31, 2008)

my friends got some pics of a few ballest can i get some help, 400 and 1000 or something!

i think they work


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 2, 2009)

Hulk Nugs said:


> grrr alright tried it with the power wire from the fan going to the y and and the transformer wire to the rc didnt work switched it transfomer y and fan to rc didnt work grrr so i made a loop and connnected the y to the rc and hooked up one wire from the fan and one wire from the transformer twisted together and put it under the y witch was looped to the rc didnt work..... i might have blown the fan i dont know i actualy hooked up just the fan with out the thermostat didnt work switch the wires around still didnt work so i might have blown the fan ?????/
> 
> well i have one more fan, and im going to try and return the fan that is not working anymore get a new one hehehe.....but i dont know what happend any ideas ?>???? i dont wanna give up  im not a quiter


try hooking up the fan to the transformer without the thermostat. if it doesn't work, try reversing the wires, it might be hooked up backwards. the white stripe on the transformer wire doesn't always mean positive. factories like to non-standardize things like that.


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## caddyluck (Jan 2, 2009)

hello, great thread ya got here. I have a question... how much power should I ask for for a 20x15 garage? The previous owner said there used to be a old fuse box in there, and there is already about 5 or 6 standard outlets. I plan to run 2 1000w HPS & 400w MH, light movers, pumps, fans A/C floros ect. . I'll downgrade to 600's if I have to. I just need a little info before I call an electrician out. THANKS!! +REP


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## Isthisnametaken (Jan 3, 2009)

I have a question I'm hoping someone can help me with.

I'm looking for a good vegging light, I would like to have flourescent tubes. My space is 30" wide so I have been looking at some of the 2 light x 2' fixtures at Home Depot. The problem is they are dim as hell.

Here's the question. *Can I upgrade the ballast in the 2' fixtures with a HO ballast for the 4' fixtures. Will this blow the light out? Or will the 2' bulbs simply not get any brighter regardless of power?*

*Thanks!*


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 3, 2009)

Isthisnametaken said:


> I have a question I'm hoping someone can help me with.
> 
> I'm looking for a good vegging light, I would like to have flourescent tubes. My space is 30" wide so I have been looking at some of the 2 light x 2' fixtures at Home Depot. The problem is they are dim as hell.
> 
> ...


Not gonna work for ya. Sorry.

Ya can double up on them too (more fixtures)

But look into some T5 HO fixtures. CFLs work well too, but tubes can span a greater distance.


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## TOKEMASTERFLEX (Jan 3, 2009)

caddyluck said:


> hello, great thread ya got here. I have a question... how much power should I ask for for a 20x15 garage? The previous owner said there used to be a old fuse box in there, and there is already about 5 or 6 standard outlets. I plan to run 2 1000w HPS & 400w MH, light movers, pumps, fans A/C floros ect. . I'll downgrade to 600's if I have to. I just need a little info before I call an electrician out. THANKS!! +REP


 

you definately should have em put in at least a 50amp breaker box in there....that way you always have room for upgrades(more lightstell em you have a big wire feed welder as well as a big air compressor that you would like to put in there


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## Isthisnametaken (Jan 3, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Not gonna work for ya. Sorry.
> 
> Ya can double up on them too (more fixtures)
> 
> But look into some T5 HO fixtures. CFLs work well too, but tubes can span a greater distance.


Alrighty thanks for the info. 

+REP


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## caddyluck (Jan 3, 2009)

TOKEMASTERFLEX said:


> you definately should have em put in at least a 50amp breaker box in there....that way you always have room for upgrades(more lightstell em you have a big wire feed welder as well as a big air compressor that you would like to put in there


 
50 amps sounds good, thanks man +Rep


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## beginningbotanist420 (Jan 3, 2009)

I'm trying to set up a rubbermaid in my attic, and there are no outlets up there. I would run an outlet to the breaker box, but its all in the basement. There is only one open wire up there [except for the HVAC] and its from the fan in my bathroom thats not used very often, but i cant cut that cord for power. I'll be running (2) 150w HPS's, roughly a 250cfm in-line fan, 2 PC fans, maybe a few CFLs [no more than 200w], and a small clip-on oscillating fan. [Basically enough power for a full power-strip]

My question is, How should i route power up there? 
-Could i get a extension cord that has (3) female plugs, cut the fan cord, and wire it so the fan plugs in?
-Follow that cord and attempt to go to the breaker?


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## connoisseurde420 (Jan 3, 2009)

my question is in reference to an industrial warehouse grow. Now Ive done some research and I will have about 100amps at my disposal. Now I am an electrical engineer so I know how it works just not how to put it together and I like to be sure of myself in these things... Lets say I wanted to rig up 20 - 1000w hps, with only half the lights running at a time, thats not too much right? What materials would I need to pull this off correctly and do you know anything about industrial power and if I will have to get some city official to look at the work or what? I know basiclly what todo just want to get the details worked out as much as possible...


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## CustomHydro (Jan 3, 2009)

beginningbotanist420 said:


> I'm trying to set up a rubbermaid in my attic, and there are no outlets up there. I would run an outlet to the breaker box, but its all in the basement. There is only one open wire up there [except for the HVAC] and its from the fan in my bathroom thats not used very often, but i cant cut that cord for power. I'll be running (2) 150w HPS's, roughly a 250cfm in-line fan, 2 PC fans, maybe a few CFLs [no more than 200w], and a small clip-on oscillating fan. [Basically enough power for a full power-strip]
> 
> My question is, How should i route power up there?
> -Could i get a extension cord that has (3) female plugs, cut the fan cord, and wire it so the fan plugs in?
> -Follow that cord and attempt to go to the breaker?


 If u want to be discreet I would run it thru a closet ceiling. 500 watts isn't that much power at all. U don't need to go to the box, u just need to go to an outlet.


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## bericus (Jan 3, 2009)

I need 2 B showed or explain how 2 make a simple 4 light socket wiring light fixture 4 my 42w cfl lighting


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## CustomHydro (Jan 3, 2009)

connoisseurde420 said:


> my question is in reference to an industrial warehouse grow. Now Ive done some research and I will have about 100amps at my disposal. Now I am an electrical engineer so I know how it works just not how to put it together and I like to be sure of myself in these things... Lets say I wanted to rig up 20 - 1000w hps, with only half the lights running at a time, thats not too much right? What materials would I need to pull this off correctly and do you know anything about industrial power and if I will have to get some city official to look at the work or what? I know basiclly what todo just want to get the details worked out as much as possible...


Hey whats up, where did u go to become an electrical engineer? I want to do that.
Anyways, the well available formula is; Volts * Amps = Watts u can run. For example, with a 110 volt connection, V=110, A=100, so W=11,000, now the 1000watts is just for the bulb, the ballast runs 50-100watts on top of that, but being an electrical engineer u probably already knew that. U would be over capacity with just the lights anyways, u want to be about 20% under your maximum amperage so u can only run 7 lights safely. If u run it at a 220volt connection, which would be slightly more efficient u could run about 15 at a crack.


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 5, 2009)

Isthisnametaken said:


> I have a question I'm hoping someone can help me with.
> 
> I'm looking for a good vegging light, I would like to have flourescent tubes. My space is 30" wide so I have been looking at some of the 2 light x 2' fixtures at Home Depot. The problem is they are dim as hell.
> 
> ...


I've never tried it, but here's the info https://www.rollitup.org/view.php?pg=faq&cmd=article&id=166

I personally like cfl's better then tube florescent


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 5, 2009)

connoisseurde420 said:


> my question is in reference to an industrial warehouse grow. Now Ive done some research and I will have about 100amps at my disposal. Now I am an electrical engineer so I know how it works just not how to put it together and I like to be sure of myself in these things... Lets say I wanted to rig up 20 - 1000w hps, with only half the lights running at a time, thats not too much right? What materials would I need to pull this off correctly and do you know anything about industrial power and if I will have to get some city official to look at the work or what? I know basiclly what todo just want to get the details worked out as much as possible...


they sell switching boxes for big setups like this. you'd have 10 ballasts hooked into the switch, then all 20 lights hooked into that. the ballasts stay powered on 24/7, then it switches the power between the 2 sets of lights every 12 hours.

actually, the numbers fooled me for a second too. you probably have 100 amps 220v, or can be split off in separate circuits to get 200 amps at 120v. 10 ballasts would pull somewhere around 50 amps, so well under your max, even with fans.


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## hooksandflesh (Jan 5, 2009)

i have a 400w digi ballist and three sqirrel fans and a drip tote.and an a cooltube reflector.I only have one spot to grow which is in my closet in my bed room all of the plugins in the up stairs are on one cirrcut can i run this on the same cirrcuit and not blow anything and two will this draw alot of current to be noticed i live in canada


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 5, 2009)

hooksandflesh said:


> i have a 400w digi ballist and three sqirrel fans and a drip tote.and an a cooltube reflector.I only have one spot to grow which is in my closet in my bed room all of the plugins in the up stairs are on one cirrcut can i run this on the same cirrcuit and not blow anything and two will this draw alot of current to be noticed i live in canada


I don't know the specs of your fans and other equipment, but the ballast shouldn't pull more then 4 amps. add on whatever else is in your grow room, and what else might be on the same circuit in other rooms. the other day I had a 400 watt ballast and an electric heater alone on a 15 amp circuit, it tripped the breaker. you should look further into what else is on the same circuit, and how many amps it can handle.


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## XxstelxX (Jan 5, 2009)

ok as far as 120 volt and 240 volt is concerned power is always the same if you use 120 volts amperage is higher if u use 240 volts amperage is lower but since voltage times amperage is power (watts) then no matter the voltage the power used is always the same. so if u have a 120 watt bulb that uses 1 amp at 120 volts then that same bulb at 240 volts would use .5 amps. This is basic electrical theory. Higher voltage less amperage. lower voltage higher amperage. power is always the same Watts is power and you are charged by your electrical company by kilowatts/per hour so no matter the voltage the power is always the same its the amperage that changes with the voltage thus wire must be bigger for lower volatges because wire is sized on amperage rateings. I am also and electrian for ten years now licensed in 3 states. just wnated to clear that up


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## CustomHydro (Jan 5, 2009)

XxstelxX said:


> ok as far as 120 volt and 240 volt is concerned power is always the same if you use 120 volts amperage is higher if u use 240 volts amperage is lower but since voltage times amperage is power (watts) then no matter the voltage the power used is always the same. so if u have a 120 watt bulb that uses 1 amp at 120 volts then that same bulb at 240 volts would use .5 amps. This is basic electrical theory. Higher voltage less amperage. lower voltage higher amperage. power is always the same Watts is power and you are charged by your electrical company by kilowatts/per hour so no matter the voltage the power is always the same its the amperage that changes with the voltage thus wire must be bigger for lower volatges because wire is sized on amperage rateings. I am also and electrian for ten years now licensed in 3 states. just wnated to clear that up


U are probably talking about the comment that I made that 220 is a little more efficient. In terms of power consumption u are correct, I was talking in terms of setup costs, like wire and breakers. Running 220v u need half the wire u do for 110v. When I was maxed out on my amps, I wanted to run 2000watts instead of 1000w, all I had to do was switch the connection to 220v and violla....


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## Hulk Nugs (Jan 5, 2009)

Alright i got my self a humidistat and been thinking of how to hook it up.....took me come trys but i believe i have it right now..........i am just not to sure if the humidistat has like a sensor in it that will tell the humidity or is it just a guess? Pics on the bottom, as you can see i cut a plug off a power strip and i am going to use that to get power to my humidistat, i took your household plug and some wires hooked up the black wire from the outlet to the humidistat then took the black wire from the plug and hooked them all together using wire nuts, i also did that with the white wire and i hooked up the ground on the outlet to the plug, so the humidistat is in between the outlet and the plug witch im hoping will control the humidity of anything plugged into the outlet....do you think this will work ??


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## XxstelxX (Jan 5, 2009)

Hulk Nugs said:


> Alright i got my self a humidistat and been thinking of how to hook it up.....took me come trys but i believe i have it right now..........i am just not to sure if the humidistat has like a sensor in it that will tell the humidity or is it just a guess? Pics on the bottom, as you can see i cut a plug off a power strip and i am going to use that to get power to my humidistat, i took your household plug and some wires hooked up the black wire from the outlet to the humidistat then took the black wire from the plug and hooked them all together using wire nuts, i also did that with the white wire and i hooked up the ground on the outlet to the plug, so the humidistat is in between the outlet and the plug witch im hoping will control the humidity of anything plugged into the outlet....do you think this will work ??


 
looks ok too me just make sure u are going into the LINE side of that gfci(outlet) gold screw black wire and silver screw gets whit wire. on the back it should say line and load on gfci. Line is power comeing in load is if u want to gcfi other outlets downstream from this gfci. New gfci's will not function if hooked up backwords old gfci's will function but if backwards will not give gfci protection. the humidstat is basically a single pole switch (on/or off). If the test button on the gfci does not reset u know u have it hooked up backwards. make sure those wire nuts are twisted nicely so u don't get a short cause gfci's are very sensative and will trip easy.


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## Hulk Nugs (Jan 6, 2009)

right on man thanks after work today ill take out my humidifier and try it. so the humidistat does have a sensor that detects the humidity and will shut off and turn on whatever i set it to??


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 6, 2009)

Hulk Nugs said:


> Alright i got my self a humidistat and been thinking of how to hook it up.....took me come trys but i believe i have it right now..........i am just not to sure if the humidistat has like a sensor in it that will tell the humidity or is it just a guess? Pics on the bottom, as you can see i cut a plug off a power strip and i am going to use that to get power to my humidistat, i took your household plug and some wires hooked up the black wire from the outlet to the humidistat then took the black wire from the plug and hooked them all together using wire nuts, i also did that with the white wire and i hooked up the ground on the outlet to the plug, so the humidistat is in between the outlet and the plug witch im hoping will control the humidity of anything plugged into the outlet....do you think this will work ??


I can't tell what wire goes where. you don't have any white wires connected to the humidistat, do you?


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## GypsyBush (Jan 6, 2009)

Uh...  Dumb ass here... in need of help before I set the house on fire...



GypsyBush said:


> I am trying to get better power to my grow space...
> 
> I have an unused dryer plug/breaker rated for 50 amp...
> 
> ...





User #420 said:


> I know nothing of 240 wiring and won't give advice on something I don't know about. There is a thread n either general, indoor, or grow room design going on called "Electrical Questions I can help" which may help you. Good luck.


Well, what do you think?

Thanks !!!

Gypsy...


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 6, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Uh...  Dumb ass here... in need of help before I set the house on fire...
> 
> Well, what do you think?
> 
> ...


I think this may be over your head. the back and red wires do NOT go together. they are both hot wires, 240 volts. something like this, you never ever want to splice together like an extension cord, you'll end up with a fire in no time. on a lighter note, you'll have to switch out the breaker to a 30 amp if it's a 50. 10 gage is rated for 30 amps and not more. you need someone who knows what they are doing to hook this up for you. you'll need it to go into a sub panel with smaller circuit breakers to branch off from there to 20 amp outlets.

they aren't just trying to get more money out of you this time. there is a different type of outlet that is rated for the higher voltage, 240, and wont let 120v appliances fit into the outlet. this is a big safety thing, you don't want to use a 120 volt outlet for 240, it's way to easy to plug in the wrong thing.


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## Hulk Nugs (Jan 6, 2009)

yea the white wire is hooked up to the other black wire on the humidistat .... there are two black wires on the humidistat, they both have writing on them but one has more then other i hooked up the black wire coming off the outlet to the black wire on the humidistat then connected the plug black wire to the two black wires from the humidistat and outlet...........then i took the white wire on the outlet and connected it to the other black wire onthe humidistat then connnected the white wire from the plug to the black wire from the humidistat and white wire from the outlet.......then i hooked up the ground from the outlet and the ground from the plug together.

you get it ??


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## Hulk Nugs (Jan 6, 2009)

here are some more pics


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 6, 2009)

Hulk Nugs said:


> yea the white wire is hooked up to the other black wire on the humidistat .... there are two black wires on the humidistat, they both have writing on them but one has more then other i hooked up the black wire coming off the outlet to the black wire on the humidistat then connected the plug black wire to the two black wires from the humidistat and outlet...........then i took the white wire on the outlet and connected it to the other black wire onthe humidistat then connnected the white wire from the plug to the black wire from the humidistat and white wire from the outlet.......then i hooked up the ground from the outlet and the ground from the plug together.
> 
> you get it ??


I think I get what you're saying. don't plug it in how it is, you'll fry the stat. look up how to wire a thermostat, it's the same wiring as that. the ground wire is right, it goes from the plug to the outlet. the white wire is similar, it goes from the plug to the outlet and nothing else. the black from the plug goes to one of the black stat wires. the other black stat wire then goes to the black wire on the outlet. understand that?


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## Hairy Bob (Jan 6, 2009)

Hulk Nugs said:


> yea the white wire is hooked up to the other black wire on the humidistat .... there are two black wires on the humidistat, they both have writing on them but one has more then other i hooked up the black wire coming off the outlet to the black wire on the humidistat then connected the plug black wire to the two black wires from the humidistat and outlet...........then i took the white wire on the outlet and connected it to the other black wire onthe humidistat then connnected the white wire from the plug to the black wire from the humidistat and white wire from the outlet.......then i hooked up the ground from the outlet and the ground from the plug together.
> 
> you get it ??


Ever hear of a paragraph? Or a sentence? Or punctuation? I'm no grammar pedant but that's just unreadable.

Edit: After several reads I have determined (roughly) what you have done, and it amounts to naught, I am afraid, as you have simply connected a switch to an extension cable without allowing the switch to interrupt the current.
You should connect + on the socket to one wire on the humidistat, then - on the PLUG to the other wire coming from the humidistat. Then connect the - of the socket to + of the plug, and connect earth to earth (props for getting that right)
This is connecting the 'stat in series and allows it to complete/break the circuit when humidity goes past it's set point.

I attach a diagram for your understanding pleasure.


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## Hulk Nugs (Jan 6, 2009)

ok teacher  thanks for pointing that out, shit didnt know i was in class, i just type what i think of and theres no paragraphs Or sentences Or punctuations in my brain just words so thats wat you get then i pause to so thats were the ...... comes in, have a great day, go smoke a bowl


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 6, 2009)

Hairy Bob said:


> Ever hear of a paragraph? Or a sentence? Or punctuation? I'm no grammar pedant but that's just unreadable.


ever hear of "but out". I read it just fine, and they did post pictures before, and posted better ones just a bit ago. another useless post. don't you have something better to do with your time?


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## Hairy Bob (Jan 6, 2009)

lorenzo08 said:


> ever hear of "but out". I read it just fine, and they did post pictures before, and posted better ones just a bit ago. another useless post. don't you have something better to do with your time?


Sorry if I got up anyones nose there, I didn't think the pictures were very clear. I certainly couldn't tell where each wire was going, and I had a good look. 
I read both of the explanations the guy posted and could barely make head nor tail of 'em.
I understand sometimes people don't have time to proof read their posts, but I for one feel more inclined to assist someone if they take the time to construct an easily understandable post.
Am I alone in this? If so I apologize muchly.
Peace.

Edit: Apols, missed the second set of pics, much clearer.


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## GypsyBush (Jan 6, 2009)

lorenzo08 said:


> I think this may be over your head. ...



OK... 

All I need is to get the power I have at the dryer outlet to my room....

Basically I need an extension cord with a dryer plug on one end and a couple of outlets on the other...

Is that so dangerous?

The breaker on the panel is 50 amp. 

Can you help me figure out what I need...

I really don't want to complicate it...

I have the power... just need it a little further away....


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## bigsteve (Jan 6, 2009)

I've got a question about ballasts. I bought an old hydro set-up that included a 1000W ballast along with 
a 1000W vegging bulb and 1000W blooming bulb. When I switched the lights to 12/12 I found the blooming
bulb would not work in the same ballast. I assumed that although new the bulb didn't work. I bought 2 other bloom bulbs from
2 other sources and neither worked. I picked up another 1000W ballast and this one says right on it --
use metal jalide bulbs only. Popped in one of the "dud" bloomers and it works fine. What's up?

BigSteve.


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 6, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> OK...
> 
> All I need is to get the power I have at the dryer outlet to my room....
> 
> ...



trying to keep it as simple as possible, but still safe and not a fire hazard, you need a 50 amp sub panel with a dryer cord and a bunch of outlets on it for your room. you can't rig a smaller outlet to the 50 amp dryer outlet any other way without the big risk of fire. I've seen these sold online already put together, or you can have any electrician put it together for you. keep it safe


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 6, 2009)

bigsteve said:


> I've got a question about ballasts. I bought an old hydro set-up that included a 1000W ballast along with
> a 1000W vegging bulb and 1000W blooming bulb. When I switched the lights to 12/12 I found the blooming
> bulb would not work in the same ballast. I assumed that although new the bulb didn't work. I bought 2 other bloom bulbs from
> 2 other sources and neither worked. I picked up another 1000W ballast and this one says right on it --
> ...


you probably have 2 different types of ballasts. there are metal halide and high pressure sodium. they usually aren't compatible with both types of bulbs unless it specifically says it on the ballast. for a metal halide bulb you need a metal halide ballast.


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## GypsyBush (Jan 6, 2009)

lorenzo08 said:


> trying to keep it as simple as possible, but still safe and not a fire hazard, you need a 50 amp sub panel with a dryer cord and a bunch of outlets on it for your room. you can't rig a smaller outlet to the 50 amp dryer outlet any other way without the big risk of fire. I've seen these sold online already put together, or you can have any electrician put it together for you. keep it safe


What does the "sub panel" do? literally...


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## Dr.Dope (Jan 6, 2009)

quick question...... can a dell computer power supply power cfl???? would it even be economical to do?


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## XxstelxX (Jan 6, 2009)

no computer supplies are dc voltage and cfls are ac voltage. dc is like you car and ac is your house


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 6, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> What does the "sub panel" do? literally...


a sub panel is basically the same thing as the breaker panel with all the breakers in it for your house. trying to hook up something to a dryer outlet is like trying to splice into the meter outside without any protection. you're almost certain to have a fire. having a sub panel to plug into the dryer outlet can safely give you 6 outlets each on their own 20 amp circuit breaker


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## GypsyBush (Jan 6, 2009)

lorenzo08 said:


> a sub panel is basically the same thing as the breaker panel with all the breakers in it for your house. trying to hook up something to a dryer outlet is like trying to splice into the meter outside without any protection. you're almost certain to have a fire. having a sub panel to plug into the dryer outlet can safely give you 6 outlets each on their own 20 amp circuit breaker


So the sub panel is like a "distribution center" of sorts...

Big power comes in from the dryer outlet (and it's 50 amp breaker)... and goes to a... 

Is this where the relay goes?

I have most of the parts here... with a little help I can accomplish this...

Oh and the outlets I have look like a regular household outlet, but with the addition of a horizontal "T" on one of the prongs...

I am the only one here... and only the lights would plug in here.... don't even want to mess with the 120v... the house is good enough for that...



Thanks Lorenzo!!!!


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 6, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> So the sub panel is like a "distribution center" of sorts...
> 
> Big power comes in from the dryer outlet (and it's 50 amp breaker)... and goes to a...
> 
> ...


the sub panel is kinda like a distribution box. it splits off the higher current wire to lower current circuits. it also protects the smaller 20 amp outlets and wires from overload and fire. it will also distribute the 240 volts out to 120 volts, so there wouldn't be a need for a different power cord for the ballast.

you better be careful. don't mess around hooking a 120 volt outlet to a dryer outlet. that's just a stupid thing to try. you obviously don't know what you're messing with. not trying to pick a fight, but I don't want to see you get hurt. trust me, don't do it. you'd be better off running an extension cord from another room to power your ballast.


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 6, 2009)

lorenzo08 said:


> you probably have 2 different types of ballasts. there are metal halide and high pressure sodium. they usually aren't compatible with both types of bulbs unless it specifically says it on the ballast. for a metal halide bulb you need a metal halide ballast.


Word on the street is that the dif between the MH and the HPS ballasts is just the igniter (easy to bypass)

But overall:
Though haven't tested or investigated it myself. Feel floros and/or CFLS are fine for veggin.


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## GypsyBush (Jan 6, 2009)

I understand the worry.. and I appreciate it...

With that said... if I can run a 120v extension cord from another room, why can't I run a 220v extension cord (of correct gage, with crimped connectors-no tape jobs)????

It seems generators have 220v cables...

Why is it so dangerous... won't be even close the the 50 amp rating on the circuit breaker....

I am not following...

And I will take your word for it, but it sure would be nice to continue...

I want to build the thing... I have the parts... it's serious yeah, but it's not brain surgery...

AND I UNDERSTAND IT IS SERIOUS... but I am comfortable with serious stuff...

Is there an electrician in the house willing to walk me through this...

I promise to follow directions and not cut corners....


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 6, 2009)

Extension cords are frowned upon because most people just grab one. Fat insulation/cord means a LOT less then popper gauge. But insulation DOES matter. European companies are known to under rate the wire size, but compensate by increasing the *temp* rating of the insulation. (too much current makes heat and melts the insulation, causing a short and the possible fire shortly afterwards)

Now AC tends to flow along the perimeter of the wire, while DC like to go through the middle (too much info, I know)

I've hooked up machines wit 100A of 480VAC via 'bologna cord' (industrial extension cord; SEW?)

People here also get SO over worked and spew the doom and gloom of what they don't know about, and the worst part, they don't know *why* they spew the doom and gloom, just repeating whats been said prior.
(but the better safe then sorry does fit in)

(Lorenzo, don't read that last part, doesn't pertain to you)

Generators, Welders, lots of stuff have long range 220 ext cords.



GypsyBush said:


> I understand the worry.. and I appreciate it...
> 
> With that said... if I can run a 120v extension cord from another room, why can't I run a 220v extension cord (of correct gage, with crimped connectors-no tape jobs)????
> 
> ...


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## GypsyBush (Jan 6, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Extension cords are frowned upon because most people just grab one. Fat insulation/cord means a LOT less then popper gauge. But insulation DOES matter. European companies are known to under rate the wire size, but compensate by increasing the *temp* rating of the insulation. (too much current makes heat and melts the insulation, causing a short and the possible fire shortly afterwards)
> 
> Now AC tends to flow along the perimeter of the wire, while DC like to go through the middle (too much info, I know)
> 
> ...


So what would be the correct gage wire for an extension cord that can handle 240v and 50 amps?

I imagine I can crimp the dryer cord I have here to the correct gage wire and have a 240v outlet on the other end...

If I can have one outlet, I can have 3 or 4 right????

Is this really so dangerous... I though the dryer had to have all the protection to handle what it is rated for...

BigBudBalls you are a pretty smart guy... good common sense too.. I have read many a discussion of yours and Al B. Fuct...

I have a unused dryer outlet... 50 amp breaker...

I want to power 3x 600 w digital ballats... in the other room...

Waddayathink????


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 6, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Extension cords are frowned upon because most people just grab one. Fat insulation/cord means a LOT less then popper gauge. But insulation DOES matter. European companies are known to under rate the wire size, but compensate by increasing the *temp* rating of the insulation. (too much current makes heat and melts the insulation, causing a short and the possible fire shortly afterwards)
> 
> Now AC tends to flow along the perimeter of the wire, while DC like to go through the middle (too much info, I know)
> 
> ...


I was waiting for you to chime in. lol

gypsy, I just want to make sure whatever you decide to do is safe. can't be to gun hoe with electricity. do it the right way and you can continue to live and grow. some of what you were saying just scared me.


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## GypsyBush (Jan 6, 2009)

lorenzo08 said:


> I was waiting for you to chime in. lol
> 
> gypsy, I just want to make sure whatever you decide to do is safe. can't be to gun hoe with electricity. do it the right way and you can continue to live and grow. some of what you were saying just scared me.


Oh I hear you... one of my hobbies is to work on aircraft... I understand serious...

So now... can I safely build an extension cord and supply my needs while saving the wallet and the house?

It's like, what if I wanted to put the dryer on the other end of the room... would I need a sub panel???

Now, instead of a dryer, I will be plugging in 3 x 5 amps (120v)... would that make it necessary to have a sub panel?

Please help me understand this.... oh and by the way.. I am about 400 miles from the nearest road... in a small eskimo village in western Alaska... so we kinda tend to do our own... lol... expensive call to the electrician... 

OK. so what is the veredict?

Can I build and use it safely or do I need the whole giggamaflopper...?


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 6, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Well to run a 50 amp line/cord/etc from the dryer outlet is kind cost prohibitive and WAY overkill. (#6 wire)
> 
> What I'd do, is change the breaker(s) to say 15 amp versions (now your wire to that outlet is over sized, still conforms to code)
> 
> ...


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 7, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Well to run a 50 amp line/cord/etc from the dryer outlet is kind cost prohibitive and WAY overkill. (#6 wire)
> 
> What I'd do, is change the breaker(s) to say 15 amp versions (now your wire to that outlet is over sized, still conforms to code)
> 
> ...


I would get a panel that fits 2 breakers and is rated for at least 50 amps. split off 2 20 amp circuits from that and mount outlets to the box and put the whole thing in place of the dryer outlet. that's what I would do. being in the middle of nowhere like you are, it's not so easy to get in the car and go to lowes for parts. if you do how bigbud was saying, replace the 50 amp breaker with a 20 amp, 12 gage wire from the dryer outlet into the room, then a few outlets. your ground is either green or unshielded wire, nuetral for both outlets will be the white wire, then the black and red wires are 20 amp circuits each, you can run 2 sets of 12 gage from those (the black wires on the 12 gage)


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## TriggerFinger (Jan 7, 2009)

I have done some simple wiring in my house, recessed lights and a new outlet for my grow room, ect. 

This is not related to growing though and I tried searching online for the right diagram but couldn't find it. This is the only forum that I can actually get answers from so I figured why not ask a fellow grower

I have a light at the foot of my basement stairs thats controlled by a switch at the top of the stairs. The power comes from the other basement lights ( if that makes any sense) and the switch is at the very end of the run. I now want to add a light above the stairs that is also controlled by the switch. The only possible way to get power up there is from the switch (going from the light is the only diagram I could find) Is there a way to do this, I tried alot of differant combinations but all I could get it to do was when the switch was off the lights would flash like a strobe. 

If this dosn't make enough sense I can draw a diagram and post it in this thread.

Thanks for your help


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## Mammoth22 (Jan 7, 2009)

okay i have a Q. Say i have a light that is a pull string(dont think it matters), can i take off that light fixture and put a single outlet there instead and hook up a power strip to that?


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 7, 2009)

Mammoth22 said:


> okay i have a Q. Say i have a light that is a pull string(dont think it matters), can i take off that light fixture and put a single outlet there instead and hook up a power strip to that?


yes, just remember to turn off the breaker before you take it apart.




TriggerFinger said:


> I have done some simple wiring in my house, recessed lights and a new outlet for my grow room, ect.
> 
> This is not related to growing though and I tried searching online for the right diagram but couldn't find it. This is the only forum that I can actually get answers from so I figured why not ask a fellow grower
> 
> ...


could you post a diagram for us please, so we can understand better.


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## TriggerFinger (Jan 7, 2009)

Here is the diagram for the light above the stairs









I hope this makes sense.


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## TheWinter (Jan 7, 2009)

Are you going with tubes over HID because of money? Or because of heat?


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 7, 2009)

TriggerFinger said:


> Here is the diagram for the light above the stairs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the one switch works all the lights or just the one after it? what are you trying to add and where?


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 7, 2009)

kushmonster said:


> No, because the power supply is a stepdown coverting AC to DC, which is low voltage, you cant run those lamps off of low voltage, LED lights run off low voltage if you want to go that route, Is it a PC grow??


 
you dont need to convert anything plug the lamps in where the computer power supply was plugged in. make a tatoo gun out of the computer power supply just ground the green wire for an on-off switch!


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 7, 2009)

lorenzo08 said:


> the one switch works all the lights or just the one after it? what are you trying to add and where?


 
find the screws that have voltage with the switch on and no volts when switch is off. hook new lead to these screws... done deal.


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## TriggerFinger (Jan 7, 2009)

The switch has to control both lights.


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 7, 2009)

TriggerFinger said:


> The switch has to control both lights.


yep so if you find the switches "hot side" you will be golden, right?


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## Maudib (Jan 7, 2009)

I have a question. I'm new to these forums, so bear with me. I purchased a 400w HPS setup on eBay recently, and set it up in a 4x4 tent. When put it all together and turned the light on, it worked for about 30-45 minutes, and the light went out. It stayed off for a couple of minutes, and came back on. It has a pretty cheap (it says "Economy 400w" right on the side of it) ballast, that looks like it was part of a overhead lamp.

Any thoughts? Is it the light bulb? Or is it the ballast? And are there any replaceable parts in the ballast, or do I have to buy another one?


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 7, 2009)

Maudib said:


> I have a question. I'm new to these forums, so bear with me. I purchased a 400w HPS setup on eBay recently, and set it up in a 4x4 tent. When put it all together and turned the light on, it worked for about 30-45 minutes, and the light went out. It stayed off for a couple of minutes, and came back on. It has a pretty cheap (it says "Economy 400w" right on the side of it) ballast, that looks like it was part of a overhead lamp.
> 
> Any thoughts? Is it the light bulb? Or is it the ballast? And are there any replaceable parts in the ballast, or do I have to buy another one?


is it a digital or magnetic ballast?


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## Maudib (Jan 7, 2009)

My guess is it's magnetic, seeing as it was a pretty cheap setup.


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 7, 2009)

Maudib said:


> My guess is it's magnetic, seeing as it was a pretty cheap setup.


I don't have enough experience working with the lights to know for sure what the problem is, but my first guess is it's a really cheap digital ballast and it's going bad. it would work fine until it gets hot, then starts acting up. there's not much in a magnetic ballast to cause a problem like this. bulbs are the cheapest part to replace, so I would start with that, see if a new bulb fixes the problem. if not, probably the ballast.

htgsupply.com 400 watt hps ballast kit for $55


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## XxstelxX (Jan 7, 2009)

lorenzo08 said:


> I don't have enough experience working with the lights to know for sure what the problem is, but my first guess is it's a really cheap digital ballast and it's going bad. it would work fine until it gets hot, then starts acting up. there's not much in a magnetic ballast to cause a problem like this. bulbs are the cheapest part to replace, so I would start with that, see if a new bulb fixes the problem. if not, probably the ballast.
> 
> htgsupply.com 400 watt hps ballast kit for $55


I have tons exp with hps and mh lights used to drive a bucket trcuk replacin all the time. If its blinkin out like that its prolly bad bulb wrong wattage bulb like higher wattage then ballast is rated for can cause this too. i have also rebuilt a light replacing ballast and 3 light bulbs before blink condidtion went away its prolly the bulb if it is the correct wattage and typ of bulb double check before buying a new one. If u purchase another and it does this bring it back and tell them the bulb is shutting off MH are famous for this especially cheepiies. i know its hps but i was justin throwin that out there for others and i would buy sylvania in my exp they are the better of bulb manufacturers. good luck man.


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 8, 2009)

bulb is the cheapest case scenario just return the bad one in the good box probably a cold soldier joint you might even be able to see the bad joint hold the bulb to another light maybe you will see a cracked tube or broken wire(inside bulb)






Maudib said:


> I have a question. I'm new to these forums, so bear with me. I purchased a 400w HPS setup on eBay recently, and set it up in a 4x4 tent. When put it all together and turned the light on, it worked for about 30-45 minutes, and the light went out. It stayed off for a couple of minutes, and came back on. It has a pretty cheap (it says "Economy 400w" right on the side of it) ballast, that looks like it was part of a overhead lamp.
> 
> Any thoughts? Is it the light bulb? Or is it the ballast? And are there any replaceable parts in the ballast, or do I have to buy another one?


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## dusty26 (Jan 8, 2009)

ok well I have an extension cord with only 3 plug ins at the end... and I have 4 things to plug in ? what on earth do i do ? 


lol dude... im playing... great thread...


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## snowdog203 (Jan 8, 2009)

Will this work? I set up 4 150w HPS, I removed the ballast and housing from the lamp body and used cut down extension cord in between, about 18 ft. The cord rating is 16/3 SJTW, each lamp is 3.2 amp, I think I am OK there. My concern is the heat put off by the ballast and lamp, the rating on the cord says 75C, the lamp and ballast probably gets about that hot. To remedy this I am considering buying a foot or two of wire that has a higher heat resistance and splicing that in at the ballast and lamp (thoughts?). Luckly I have an outlet that all four lights can plug into that goes straight to the 15 amp circuit breaker, no other loads. I calculate that to be 12.8 amps from the 4 lights solely on the 15 amp line. I definetely could use help in the electirical work. Any comments any of the items (including pix) are appreciated and thanks to this whole thread!


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## XxstelxX (Jan 8, 2009)

should be at least a 14 awg wire man 14 wire is good for 15 amps. also code says not to use more then 80% of the rated breaker so you will be cutting this close but i do not see a fire hazard unless u have crappy connections . i would def up the wire size to 14 awg at all points. Up the wire size to be safe 16 will work but personally I would use 14 at least most cheap extension cords are 16 and some 18 , is the way to go. The thing is if you are connected to a 15 amp circuit then the wire should be able to handle 15 amps for a possible fault current before the breaker trips. Even if the lights not drawing close to that a short could cause more amperage then that wire is rated for. its all about saftey. Its your call but being an electrician for 10 years now i would def recommend at least 14 wire .


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## CrackerJax (Jan 8, 2009)

Just to be clear....

If you have two ballasts... one is 120V and the other is 240V and the wattage draw is equal, then the amps will be halved.... but the load has been doubled... i.e. twice the volts are applied. it comes out the same in the end of the month for your electrical bill.....

if you have a light set up that requires 4000 watts....that draw will not change whether you have wired up a 240 or 120V ballast system.... get it? In the end it's always how much is needed to power up...not how it is delivered, as long as you follow the code and the equation Volts=Watts X Amps


out.


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## XxstelxX (Jan 8, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Just to be clear....
> 
> If you have two ballasts... one is 120V and the other is 240V and the wattage draw is equal, then the amps will be halved.... but the load has been doubled... i.e. twice the volts are applied. it comes out the same in the end of the month for your electrical bill.....
> 
> ...


 yes your right there is noway to hook up yur shit to save money no matter the voltage the power is always the same so you get charges the same only gain u can get by using 240 verse 120 is smaller wire size but on a small scal wire size ain't gonna save shit (purchase wise) electric companies charge at kilowatts/hour so if power does not change u don't save anything only way to lower electric bill is to use less lights aka power. amperage times voltage is power(watts) so if u draw 1 amp at 120 you use 120watts verse if u use .5 amps at 240 its still 120watts. hope i helped


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## snowdog203 (Jan 8, 2009)

XxstelxX, Thanks for the quick response and my fault for not mentioning I am using the 16 guage on each ballast so there is only 3.2 amps on each line. I could run three of the lamps 9.6 amps (61%) to the dedicated 15 amp circuit, and run the other lamp to a shared house circuit, thoughts? That would resolve the 12.8 amps (85%) going to one 15 amp outlet, but may cause other problems on the shared circuit. 

As far as the heat generaton and the proximity of the 75C 16 guage cord to the ballast and lamp, I will see what sort of heat resistant wire (&connectors) I can splice in there, any recommendations are welcome.  thanks


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## XxstelxX (Jan 8, 2009)

use 14 wire cord for all the lights the way it is rule of thumb is 80% of breaker when one is sizing a circuit you will be fine the way it is but change all the wire to 14 wire becaue even though the ballast only draws 3.2 amps there is a potential of 15 or more amps in a short condition because its supplied by a 15 amp breaker. Its all about just in case. If short with 16 gauge wire it could easily melt no matter the insulation rateing its the wire that carrries the current(amperage) and thats what melts shit if under sized. so basically its not what the fixture draws its what its supplied by (15 amp breaker). I fu wire a houe and run a circuit from panel to a outlet with say 14 awg(15 amp breaker) you do not ever decrease the size of wire to next outlet EVER! Becaues the potential for 15 amps exist no matter what the light draws. I have seen many melted ballast especially HID (MH and HPS) when they cook they COOK!!! wire size is very important when it comes to fire man . Now if this was just a lamp that wasn't on all the time i wouldn't worry but were it is used for growing and on most of the day i would run 14 wire or 12 wire to all my lights just to be safe. when a ballast shorts out and this is common it can draw as much electricity as its being supplied by before tripping thus small wire in the circuit becomes your weak link. hope I explained this good. thermal rateing of wire really means nothing when it comes to sizeing what u are doin. 75c is very hot and most cords are rated for that. just remember its the copper in the wire that carries electricity and size of copper is what matters.


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 8, 2009)

XxstelxX said:


> use 14 wire cord for all the lights the way it is rule of thumb is 80% of breaker when one is sizing a circuit you will be fine the way it is but change all the wire to 14 wire becaue even though the ballast only draws 3.2 amps there is a potential of 15 or more amps in a short condition because its supplied by a 15 amp breaker. Its all about just in case. If short with 16 gauge wire it could easily melt no matter the insulation rateing its the wire that carrries the current(amperage) and thats what melts shit if under sized. so basically its not what the fixture draws its what its supplied by (15 amp breaker). I fu wire a houe and run a circuit from panel to a outlet with say 14 awg(15 amp breaker) you do not ever decrease the size of wire to next outlet EVER! Becaues the potential for 15 amps exist no matter what the light draws. I have seen many melted ballast especially HID (MH and HPS) when they cook they COOK!!! wire size is very important when it comes to fire man . Now if this was just a lamp that wasn't on all the time i wouldn't worry but were it is used for growing and on most of the day i would run 14 wire or 12 wire to all my lights just to be safe. when a ballast shorts out and this is common it can draw as much electricity as its being supplied by before tripping thus small wire in the circuit becomes your weak link. hope I explained this good


agreed, in a perfect world, you should use 14 gage extension cords on a 15 amp circuit. I'm sure many people here have 16 or 18 gage cords on 20 amp circuits even. a large transformer like a ballast does add to the danger. the way they can short out is much more dangerous then a normal light bulb, so safety should always be kept in mind in your grow room.

the way some electronic parts go out in flames is called the thermal runway. when a transformer reaches the thermal runway temperature, it starts to melt away the protective coating on the wire inside the transformer and damages the coils. the wire shorts out on the inside and starts drawing more current which makes it even hotter yet, until the part eventually causes a fire or burns out and stops drawing power. a large transormer like in a ballast can draw more current then it's rated for and cause problems long before the breaker is tripped. 3.2 amps is what the ballast is rated for when it's working properly. doesn't mean it wont ever draw more then that. many other things can go wrong. protect against these problems as best as you can, and you'll continue growing happily.


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## snowdog203 (Jan 8, 2009)

I got it, I will change out the wire to at least 14 guage, thanks.


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## Angus (Jan 8, 2009)

Can someone please explain boost converters that are supposed to 'step up' 120 to 240. I don't really understand how it's possible, but apparently it is because they sell them. What I want to know is if you used one would the amperage drawn be the same as if you used 120 or would it really be half what it was before? Thanks.


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## fureelz (Jan 8, 2009)

I have a question. Can I (me) install a breaker in the box and run 14g for 2 plugs on a 15amp circuit? The wiring in my house is terrible and I don't want to overload any circuits. I have no idea where to start and electricity scared the crap out of me. I know how to wire a light switch and a socket but I've never messed with that scary gray box.


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## gotot (Jan 8, 2009)

kushmonster said:


> I've been a member here for almost a month now and I see alot of people asking electrical questions...
> 
> I've been an Electrician for about 10yrs now so if someone has a question pertaining to electrical or wiring, I'll be happy to help if I can


here https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/147428-energy-savers-large-rechargable-batteries.html


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## CrackerJax (Jan 8, 2009)

Angus said:


> Can someone please explain boost converters that are supposed to 'step up' 120 to 240. I don't really understand how it's possible, but apparently it is because they sell them. What I want to know is if you used one would the amperage drawn be the same as if you used 120 or would it really be half what it was before? Thanks.



just a fancy term for transformer.... yes the amps will be halved.... the basic equation v=w x a cannot be undone......it's always works....
consequently knowing any two of the variables will reveal the other. They are directly proportional to each other. 
In your case your are doubling the load volts from 120 to 240 (times 2)....therefore amps will be cut by 1/2.


out.


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 9, 2009)

Angus said:


> Can someone please explain boost converters that are supposed to 'step up' 120 to 240. I don't really understand how it's possible, but apparently it is because they sell them. What I want to know is if you used one would the amperage drawn be the same as if you used 120 or would it really be half what it was before? Thanks.


it's a trade off. higher voltage and less amps, or lower voltage and more amps. either way you're using the same amount of power and will cost the same. adding a step-up transformer before the ballast wont save you any money, and will only add more inefficiency to the setup. so using one will only cost you more to run it and create more heat.


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 9, 2009)

fureelz said:


> I have a question. Can I (me) install a breaker in the box and run 14g for 2 plugs on a 15amp circuit? The wiring in my house is terrible and I don't want to overload any circuits. I have no idea where to start and electricity scared the crap out of me. I know how to wire a light switch and a socket but I've never messed with that scary gray box.


yes, if you have room in your panel to add another breaker. you might want to find someone to do it for you, or maybe get a do it yourself book.


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## fureelz (Jan 9, 2009)

I have room on the panel, i have no idea how to get power from that box to a breaker to a line to sockets so i can plug something in...is it something i should have subbed out? what is one to think when i tell them what i need? anyone in colorado want to help?


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 9, 2009)

fureelz said:


> I have room on the panel, i have no idea how to get power from that box to a breaker to a line to sockets so i can plug something in...is it something i should have subbed out? what is one to think when i tell them what i need? anyone in colorado want to help?


I'd help if you were local. have anything in the room yet? just say you need outlets in the room to run a drill press for your wifes craft business. don't know much about what she's doing and she's not home, but this is what she said she needs. be creative in your lies. lol. if you have an electrician put it in, go for a 20 amp circuit. only a few dollars more, and you'll be very thankful in the future if you do. less problems, more power available if needed.


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## burtonblunt86 (Jan 9, 2009)

i just picked up an inline duct fan for m y room. i'm tryin to wire it up, but i'm confused. it's a 120v motor, white and black wires, green ground. is that something i can hook straight up to a light switch? i tried to look for a switch or control online, but i couldn't fine any. heres the fan link http://www.suncourt.com/InductorHydroponics.html
thanks


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 9, 2009)

burtonblunt86 said:


> i just picked up an inline duct fan for m y room. i'm tryin to wire it up, but i'm confused. it's a 120v motor, white and black wires, green ground. is that something i can hook straight up to a light switch? i tried to look for a switch or control online, but i couldn't fine any. heres the fan link http://www.suncourt.com/InductorHydroponics.html
> thanks



Black is 120VAC, white is neutral, and green is ground


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 9, 2009)

to fureels!



im not sure about colarado but standard service around my neck of the woods is 200 amp so ad up the value of all your breakers and if it is below 200 you should be able to add more breakers. just because they fit doesnt mean you have enough power coming from the pole, as always with wiring if your not sure about something ask a pro! be safe.


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 9, 2009)

burtonblunt86 said:


> i just picked up an inline duct fan for m y room. i'm tryin to wire it up, but i'm confused. it's a 120v motor, white and black wires, green ground. is that something i can hook straight up to a light switch? i tried to look for a switch or control online, but i couldn't fine any. heres the fan link http://www.suncourt.com/InductorHydroponics.html
> thanks


just grab a three prong extension cord cut the female end off and strip the insulation off about 2 inches then go w-w b-b g-g. wire nut them then tape for good measure. if you soldier then you can do that as [email protected]


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## CrackerJax (Jan 9, 2009)

burtonblunt86 said:


> i just picked up an inline duct fan for m y room. i'm tryin to wire it up, but i'm confused. it's a 120v motor, white and black wires, green ground. is that something i can hook straight up to a light switch? i tried to look for a switch or control online, but i couldn't fine any. heres the fan link http://www.suncourt.com/InductorHydroponics.html
> thanks



Hook the black to either the top of the switch or anywhere between the switch and the light it is operating. Of course your fan won't run if the lights are off, but I'm guessin that's not a problem 

By the way don't get all hung up on colors.... it's more about making a circle .. a circuit .. a loop .. just keep your colors separate and make a loop. In and out, in and out, black and white, black and white .. say it with me .. 

Got hit with 480 once .. like a baseball bat that is .. 

out.


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## Infamous Zero (Jan 9, 2009)

Hello, im pretty new here. Also an electrician. I typically deal less with wiring installation and more with automation, specifically programmable logic controllers in an assembly type environment. I'd also be willing to help answer questions related to wiring, sizing, controllers etc. It might be easiest to pm me with your questions, but I'll subscribe to this thread and try to help stay ontop of any unanswered questions.


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## GypsyBush (Jan 9, 2009)

Uh ...

I am still here...

What about this...???

50 amp Breaker > dryer outlet > dryer cord > 30 amp Breaker > 10-3 gage wire to the other room > 6x6 box with (30amp relay???) some sort of a bus bar/distribution center > 16-3 wire to box with 220v outlets...

I am not sure what is supposed to go in the 6x6 box in the guess above...

Anyone...?!


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## sewlame (Jan 9, 2009)

I have a 15 amp all for myself in my grow room that has 2 outlets inside. I know there was once an air conditioner and electric garage opener(both of which are now unhooked/incapacitated) on this same fuse but I wanna know if my prospective 1000w hps, 400w hps, 3 6" inline fans, and 2 oscillating fans is achievable all on this circuit? I've done the simple math of adding all amps used by the lights, ballasts, ect. but as for real information on what to get instead to make my setup work? That is to say what combination of light wattage and parts listed above will keep me under the 80% goal. I don't need a calculator to know I'm cutting the 13.5 amp mark too close. Gracias


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## Infamous Zero (Jan 9, 2009)

sewlame said:


> I have a 15 amp all for myself in my grow room that has 2 outlets inside. I know there was once an air conditioner and electric garage opener(both of which are now unhooked/incapacitated) on this same fuse but I wanna know if my prospective 1000w hps, 400w hps, 3 6" inline fans, and 2 oscillating fans is achievable all on this circuit? I've done the simple math of adding all amps used by the lights, ballasts, ect. but as for real information on what to get instead to make my setup work? That is to say what combination of light wattage and parts listed above will keep me under the 80% goal. I don't need a calculator to know I'm cutting the 13.5 amp mark too close. Gracias


It is going to be very close, one thing you could do is check to see the gauge of wire used for those circuits. If its 12 gauge wire you could purchase a 20 amp breaker to run the circuit.


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 9, 2009)

Infamous Zero said:


> Hello, im pretty new here. Also an electrician. I typically deal less with wiring installation and more with automation, specifically programmable logic controllers in an assembly type environment. I'd also be willing to help answer questions related to wiring, sizing, controllers etc. It might be easiest to pm me with your questions, but I'll subscribe to this thread and try to help stay ontop of any unanswered questions.


 
so like the incredible automated assembly machines, things of that nature?? like canning and packing or like micro assembly?/ such cool work i just couldnt keep my head in the books but i always have enjoyed automation/automotion..


----------



## hmmgood (Jan 9, 2009)

PLEEZE help me!!

I have been growing about 4 months now, and had some really stupid problems so far, but here's the newest: mu bulb dimmed yesterday! 400 HPS attached directly to the ballast. Purchased new one today, and yep, bulb still dim. Thought the problem might be in my light strip, so bought stout one at same time picked up bulb (Home Depot). No difference. I finally got my blueberry beauties looking darn fine, and now this. I am almost in tears...AGAIN! Am supposed to bring Mozar's in, but cannot bring myself to kill them, too, ya know?? Aaaaggghhhhh!!

thankx and may the Big Bud Gods shineth upon u and all u grow!!

Hope you can help.


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 9, 2009)

the ballast is shot if its digital throw it out if old school mag.capacitor style rebuild kit on ebay 54 usd.. sorry but deff not good also if you do get a rebuil kit you can make it remote ballast style since you will have to take it apart anyway,kinda an upside?




hmmgood said:


> PLEEZE help me!!
> 
> I have been growing about 4 months now, and had some really stupid problems so far, but here's the newest: mu bulb dimmed yesterday! 400 HPS attached directly to the ballast. Purchased new one today, and yep, bulb still dim. Thought the problem might be in my light strip, so bought stout one at same time picked up bulb (Home Depot). No difference. I finally got my blueberry beauties looking darn fine, and now this. I am almost in tears...AGAIN! Am supposed to bring Mozar's in, but cannot bring myself to kill them, too, ya know?? Aaaaggghhhhh!!
> 
> ...


----------



## hmmgood (Jan 9, 2009)

now ya done it, ya made me cry (
wuz gonna bake u brownies, too...

Jest kiddin. Thanks for reply, have nuther ballast (more of the boyscout in me!). Will swap out before next cycle. Hey, thanks fer yer help and the girls send their love!!


----------



## winkdogg420 (Jan 9, 2009)

when i give advice about wiring on riu.com i try to keep people thinking colors it seems untill your a seasoned vet its hard to grasp the loop concept ? just trying to keep people safe hot from wall to green on fixture bad move, ya know...

my 2 cents




CrackerJax said:


> Hook the black to either the top of the switch or anywhere between the switch and the light it is operating. Of course your fan won't run if the lights are off, but I'm guessin that's not a problem
> 
> By the way don't get all hung up on colors.... it's more about making a circle .. a circuit .. a loop .. just keep your colors separate and make a loop. In and out, in and out, black and white, black and white .. say it with me ..
> 
> ...


----------



## winkdogg420 (Jan 9, 2009)

well its not so bad after all! i would switch asap dont run that bulb underpower too long ya know!

glad i could help out i just cant help helpin!





hmmgood said:


> now ya done it, ya made me cry (
> wuz gonna bake u brownies, too...
> 
> Jest kiddin. Thanks for reply, have nuther ballast (more of the boyscout in me!). Will swap out before next cycle. Hey, thanks fer yer help and the girls send their love!!


----------



## fureelz (Jan 9, 2009)

thanks for the input, i need a pro...there is no way im going to mess with it. I knew a plumber so i got lucky with that but i dont KNOW an electrician. S.O.L.?


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 9, 2009)

maybe find another circut with small stuff on it and buy some heavy extension cords maybe use a few diff circuts
?




fureelz said:


> thanks for the input, i need a pro...there is no way im going to mess with it. I knew a plumber so i got lucky with that but i dont KNOW an electrician. S.O.L.?


----------



## fureelz (Jan 9, 2009)

thats what is happening right now, just wanted something a little more pro, ya know?


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 9, 2009)

you could gety some plastic wire hiding moulding???



fureelz said:


> thats what is happening right now, just wanted something a little more pro, ya know?


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## sewlame (Jan 10, 2009)

Infamous Zero said:


> It is going to be very close, one thing you could do is check to see the gauge of wire used for those circuits. If its 12 gauge wire you could purchase a 20 amp breaker to run the circuit.


Alright, found out it was 12g and took the liberty of hooking up a 20 amp fuse to the circuit I'm using. So...ya think it's safe to have 400w, 1000w, 3 6" in line fans, ozone gen, and a couple oscillating fans hooked up. I'm feeling I should stagger all the start up times by a bit of time. Whadya think?


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## CrackerJax (Jan 10, 2009)

yes it is..... ur within the limits....enjoy.


out.


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## fureelz (Jan 10, 2009)

winkdogg420 said:


> you could gety some plastic wire hiding moulding???


a what? i just have a hole in a wall that the damn rats chewed out, i found that i needed a cord to run thru it for optimal performance. lol, i would like it wired professionally soon so that i can power a couple more things. The most experience i have with electricity is removing a light socket and replacing it with a plug.


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## spadegolf07 (Jan 13, 2009)

Grow shed containing 4 1000w lights and all the works. Water pump, ozone gen, a couple inline fans and exhausts. Everything else only uses a small amount of power.

I'm thinking of using 2 30amp with 10 gauge wire....I'm still not sure how this is all going to look or be setup. If there are 2 open spots in my main home box, how should I do this?

Thanks for the help


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 13, 2009)

sewlame said:


> I have a 15 amp all for myself in my grow room that has 2 outlets inside. I know there was once an air conditioner and electric garage opener(both of which are now unhooked/incapacitated) on this same fuse but I wanna know if my prospective 1000w hps, 400w hps, 3 6" inline fans, and 2 oscillating fans is achievable all on this circuit? I've done the simple math of adding all amps used by the lights, ballasts, ect. but as for real information on what to get instead to make my setup work? That is to say what combination of light wattage and parts listed above will keep me under the 80% goal. I don't need a calculator to know I'm cutting the 13.5 amp mark too close. Gracias


the 1000 watt light by itself uses about 9 amps. I would put that on it's own circuit. the 400 watt light and the fans on another circuit would be most reliable. trying to run everything on a single 15 amp circuit is asking for problems. one circuit to trip and your whole room will be in the dark.


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 13, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Uh ...
> 
> I am still here...
> 
> ...


maybe you need a new thread to help with your problems. lol. start a new one and post the link in here. I thought we had your problem sorted out the other day.


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 13, 2009)

hmmgood said:


> now ya done it, ya made me cry (
> wuz gonna bake u brownies, too...
> 
> Jest kiddin. Thanks for reply, have nuther ballast (more of the boyscout in me!). Will swap out before next cycle. Hey, thanks fer yer help and the girls send their love!!


htgsupply.com has ballast rebuild kits for 400 watt hps for $55. got mine there. I really should buy stock in the company. satisfied customer here. got a free lighter and a sticker! sweet..


----------



## lorenzo08 (Jan 13, 2009)

spadegolf07 said:


> Grow shed containing 4 1000w lights and all the works. Water pump, ozone gen, a couple inline fans and exhausts. Everything else only uses a small amount of power.
> 
> I'm thinking of using 2 30amp with 10 gauge wire....I'm still not sure how this is all going to look or be setup. If there are 2 open spots in my main home box, how should I do this?
> 
> Thanks for the help


I would run a single 50 or 60 amp 220 feed out to the building with 8-3 wire and put in a small sub panel right in the building. then you can run 5 or 6 dedicated outlets right from the box to around the building where ever you'll have the ballasts sitting. you'll have plenty of power and never have to worry about it. is my idea overkill?


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## CrackerJax (Jan 13, 2009)

lorenzo08 said:


> maybe you need a new thread to help with your problems. lol. start a new one and post the link in here. I thought we had your problem sorted out the other day.



Post me a pic......

I'm not clear on what you want.

out.


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## diemdepyro (Jan 13, 2009)

lorenzo08 said:


> I would run a single 50 or 60 amp 220 feed out to the building with 8-3 wire and put in a small sub panel right in the building. then you can run 5 or 6 dedicated outlets right from the box to around the building where ever you'll have the ballasts sitting. you'll have plenty of power and never have to worry about it. is my idea overkill?


That is not near overkill with the voltage drop. 6 awg copper at least.
The code is the minimum standard.


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## diemdepyro (Jan 13, 2009)

Hey CJ .....I think I know what he means.household current.


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 13, 2009)

diemdepyro said:


> That is not near overkill with the voltage drop. 6 awg copper at least.
> The code is the minimum standard.


depends on the distance the cable will be going. what I meant was, 60 amps 220 going to the building may be overkill, but it's what I would do. plenty of room to expand. or if needed, run heaters or air conditioners too.


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## diemdepyro (Jan 13, 2009)

lorenzo08 said:


> depends on the distance the cable will be going. what I meant was, 60 amps 220 going to the building may be overkill, but it's what I would do. plenty of room to expand. or if needed, run heaters or air conditioners too.


I would over kill that too. for future and present.


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## CrackerJax (Jan 13, 2009)

My fault for quoting Lorenzo instead of Gypsy.... I just didn't get the meaning of what he had or wanted to do...


out.


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## BRICKWeeD (Jan 13, 2009)

Is it possible to have a single ballast that will power multiple 150hps bulb/outlets?


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 13, 2009)

1 ballast 1 light thats how it works . i was thinking 4 100 watt hps on a single 400watt ballast but each bulb needs its own the $25 e-conolights.com lights come with the ballast included just add wire and plug in ... 




BRICKWeeD said:


> Is it possible to have a single ballast that will power multiple 150hps bulb/outlets?


----------



## Pirate420 (Jan 13, 2009)

Quick question. I tried searching through the 54 pages of posts but god there is alot of info. I just got my $25 lights from e-cono lights, the 150w hps. Would it be fine to plug two of these into an outlet? or would that be overkill?


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## keith6901 (Jan 13, 2009)

is there any how i can test a 400watt mh ballast to see if it still good witout hookin it up to hydro i got a volt meter if that helps you out thinking ohms but i rather be safe then sorry oh yeah and its a magnetic ballast its a quad hook up low bay fixture


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 14, 2009)

Pirate420 said:


> Quick question. I tried searching through the 54 pages of posts but god there is alot of info. I just got my $25 lights from e-cono lights, the 150w hps. Would it be fine to plug two of these into an outlet? or would that be overkill?


you will be fine. they plug one 1000w into an outlet. (can't split an outlet)


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 14, 2009)

lorenzo08 said:


> depends on the distance the cable will be going. what I meant was, 60 amps 220 going to the building may be overkill, but it's what I would do. plenty of room to expand. or if needed, run heaters or air conditioners too.


As long as you aren't over committing the service to the house.


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## Tiedstick (Jan 14, 2009)

Just a question regarding HPS (ha, I think I just heard the collective sound of en masse face-palming).

Anyway, about this ballast business. The sheer cost of the complete unit is what puts me off growing all together as I've never been one to compromise - love doing things properly. Anywho, I've seen these units for sale (without the bulb) wired to a normal three-pin plug with no ballast in between. I.e. all it comprises of is the fitting (the HPS E40 housing the bulb goes into), the reflective casing around it and a wire to plug it into a socket, some even without the reflective casing as is the case in the following link:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/E40-CERAMIC-LAMP-HOLDER-2m-ELECTRICAL-FLEX-13a-PLUG_W0QQitemZ230318745908QQihZ013QQcategoryZ43555QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
Now this suggests to me that I wouldn't necessarily need a ballast for pssh I dunno, a super top secret closet homegrow... or am I missing something important?

Any help would be great folks.

Toke owwwwna.


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 14, 2009)

that "normal" three prong is not so normal . it will plug into the output side of a balast this is only a socket,and cord . it will not function without a ballast if you were to plug this into a wall outlet(which you cant) it would not work possibly exploding ,or so ive heard. did you think you figured out the big scam being pulled by electricians all over the world, selling useless ballasts?? they are needed 100% to regulate the voltage,amperage,and frequency of the power going to the bulb. you can however find really good deals on complete setups including ballast bulbs and reflectors! or you could buy the socket mentioned and buid your own ballast for around 50 bucks(pretty simple wiring)! i think you an get the complete deal cheaper than you could build one , i saw a 400 watt complete setup on ebay for 160.00usd shipped free!

hope this helps! 





Tiedstick said:


> Just a question regarding HPS (ha, I think I just heard the collective sound of en masse face-palming).
> 
> Anyway, about this ballast business. The sheer cost of the complete unit is what puts me off growing all together as I've never been one to compromise - love doing things properly. Anywho, I've seen these units for sale (without the bulb) wired to a normal three-pin plug with no ballast in between. I.e. all it comprises of is the fitting (the HPS E40 housing the bulb goes into), the reflective casing around it and a wire to plug it into a socket, some even without the reflective casing as is the case in the following link:
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/E40-CERAMIC-LAMP-HOLDER-2m-ELECTRICAL-FLEX-13a-PLUG_W0QQitemZ230318745908QQihZ013QQcategoryZ43555QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
> ...


----------



## Tiedstick (Jan 14, 2009)

Ah I see.

Not so much uncovering a consipracy but not having any ideas about electrics.

Well, there goes that dream - simply don't have the money. All I do have in relation to lighting is a 2.5sq ft flourescent tube (quad-capacity) fixture and four 2ft, 20w (white) flourescent tubes.

From what I've read, that would only be useful for the germination/nursery stage (barely).

EDIT: Or would it? ^


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 14, 2009)

start with what you have and add cfls as you go they are a buck or twoeach and might be the way to go if your on a budget! alot of people dont like them but they are growing big healthy plants for me and many others on here! check out my grow in my signature . i firget but i think i only have about 75.00usd invested in my lights!



Tiedstick said:


> Ah I see.
> 
> Not so much uncovering a consipracy but not having any ideas about electrics.
> 
> ...


----------



## Tiedstick (Jan 14, 2009)

Winkdoggy dogg, you might be onto something. I think I've now accepted that the yield probably won't be as great or as potent as with a HPS system, but it would nevertheless be a good training exercise (if nothing else). A good place to start, especially given http://www.marijuanapassion.com/Growing-Marijuana-With-Fluorescent-Lights.html and more so, this: http://www.weedfarmer.com/growing_marijuana_with_fluoresce.htm .


Thanks man.


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 14, 2009)

Tiedstick said:


> Well, there goes that dream - simply don't have the money. All I do have in relation to lighting is a 2.5sq ft flourescent tube (quad-capacity) fixture and four 2ft, 20w (white) flourescent tubes.
> 
> From what I've read, that would only be useful for the germination/nursery stage (barely).


you can grow with cfl's. just use 2 or 3 100 watt equivalent bulbs per plant. just add up the lumens. you need at least 6000 lumen per plant. a 100 watt cfl has 1600 lumen, so 3 of them over one plant gives you 4800 lumen. you wont grow pro buds with it, but it will work! I got 2oz from a few plants under 14 cfl's.

http://htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=45693

just buy one of these and a bulb. it comes with instructions, so it's not hard to wire it. I used a piece of 10 inch stove pipe for a reflector. bend it into a bat-wing shape, spray paint it flat white, and mount the light socket on it, and hang on chains. 400 watt hps for under $100.


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## Tiedstick (Jan 15, 2009)

I've seen absurd variations in prices for HPS 400W ballasts. Can someone just make sense of these?

http://www.bltdirect.com/product.php?pid=6371

http://www.bltdirect.com/product.php?pid=6750

Or again, am I missing something?


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 15, 2009)

Tiedstick said:


> I've seen absurd variations in prices for HPS 400W ballasts. Can someone just make sense of these?
> 
> http://www.bltdirect.com/product.php?pid=6371
> 
> ...


those look like only single parts of a ballast. you want to find either a complete ballast or a ballast rebuild kit. those will come with everything you need.


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 15, 2009)

i think they are just pulse starting units, you still need all the other parts ballast kits are 50.00 usd on ebay complete with socket!





lorenzo08 said:


> those look like only single parts of a ballast. you want to find either a complete ballast or a ballast rebuild kit. those will come with everything you need.


----------



## BigBudBalls (Jan 15, 2009)

Tiedstick said:


> I've seen absurd variations in prices for HPS 400W ballasts. Can someone just make sense of these?
> 
> http://www.bltdirect.com/product.php?pid=6371
> 
> ...


MIA. First looks like a igniter, second looks like a ballast(x-former).

Ballasts will differ!! Some are copper windings while others are aluminum windings (The US baned aluminum wiring for homes decades ago) insulation on said winding will differ too.

Buy from a reputable company/MFG. More is at stake the just the lamp and possible fire.


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 15, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Buy from a reputable company/MFG. More is at stake the just the lamp and possible fire.


http://htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=45693

this is a good one. I got the ballast kit and a bulb for about $100 with shipping. only thing is, I should have gotten the 600 watt, not the 400, I think it would be worth the extra money.


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 15, 2009)

lorenzo08 said:


> http://htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=45693
> 
> this is a good one. I got the ballast kit and a bulb for about $100 with shipping. only thing is, I should have gotten the 600 watt, not the 400, I think it would be worth the extra money.


600W has a lot of pluses, but the biggest minus is that bulbs are a bit hard to find locally, so buy 2 at a time.


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## chucktownskunk (Jan 15, 2009)

how much will a 1k light raise your bill if its on 12/12


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 15, 2009)

chucktownskunk said:


> how much will a 1k light raise your bill if its on 12/12


watts used X hours per month X price per kwh / 1000

1000 X 360 X .07 / 1000 = $25.20


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## chucktownskunk (Jan 15, 2009)

is that a month


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## CrackerJax (Jan 15, 2009)

Just to be clear, aluminium wiring has not been banned, only the previous type of aluminium. AA-8000 Aluminium wire is used today with no safety issues. On these sorts of wiring jobs where so little supplies are actually needed, i would pony up the extra few cents for copper, but aluminum is safe to use as well.


out.


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## weedaweedaweed (Jan 16, 2009)

How much wattage can I run out of a light socket? I have no wall outlets in my room, i've just used an adapter to run a few CFLs from one light socket, and am temporarily using an extension cord to provide electricity from another room.


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 16, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Just to be clear, aluminium wiring has not been banned, only the previous type of aluminium. AA-8000 Aluminium wire is used today with no safety issues. On these sorts of wiring jobs where so little supplies are actually needed, i would pony up the extra few cents for copper, but aluminum is safe to use as well.
> 
> 
> out.


Local codes might over rule. Can you state NEC on the alum wiring?


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## XxstelxX (Jan 16, 2009)

aluminum romex has been banned and im not sure if u could even find it anywhere. I would not suggest any aluminum romex for sure becaues it is a fire hazard. Old trailors used to ues it and the connections corode and become loose. Only aluminum wire i have ever used in ten years was type SE ( ranges and small services) and also in the very large wire range like 1/0 and up. Copper wire for circuits for sure. Aluminum wire of type SE is fine for say a small 60 amp sub panel or range and even dryers but when it is used Oxide inhibitor must be applied to prevent corrision. Go copper on small scale copper is not that much more. no fires don't wana burn your babies before they hit your pipe or papers. Hehehehe good luck....O one more thing if u use aluminum wire and must junction it make sure the wire nuts or connectors are rated for aluminum wire this is a big deal for sure. Most wire nuts are rated for copper clad and copper. some are rated for aluminum and copper and copper clad the package should have a LISTED use on it make sure you read as this is very important so connection stays TIGHT!!!


----------



## panta (Jan 16, 2009)

can somebody help me i have a outdoor garden tipe reflector with the ballast atached so i drilled two holes in it and connected aluminium tubeing and the exhaust fan and now its a cooltube so my question is could this pose any problems and does the ballast create a significant amount of heat or is the bulb a major heat producer couse i was thinking of extracting the ballast from the reflector but then i would have to rewire it,never done that,also i was thinking of buying another reflector just like that one and making a cooltube.


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## XxstelxX (Jan 16, 2009)

they both get hot bulb and ballast i have seen bulbs melt the plastic lens on hps and mh lights outside on biuildings cooling is vrey important remote ballast and cool lamp if it makes grow area too hot. I have 10 years exp with electricity licensed in 3 states hid fixtures make lots of heat bulb and ballast just make sure whatever you do tight connections and fire proof container for remote ballast (metal) when these things short they got HOTTER then hell and melt. Bulbs will get extremely hot as well. good luck


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 16, 2009)

I have a 400 watt hps ballast, I just got it last week. the transformer in the ballast heats up to around 170F, is that normal? should I put a low speed computer fan on it?


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 16, 2009)

lorenzo08 said:


> I have a 400 watt hps ballast, I just got it last week. the transformer in the ballast heats up to around 170F, is that normal? should I put a low speed computer fan on it?


Yup. Can use a fan if ya like. but the 'built' version use the housing as art of the heat sink. I had put on on an aluminum plate.


----------



## lorenzo08 (Jan 16, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Yup. Can use a fan if ya like. but the 'built' version use the housing as art of the heat sink. I had put on on an aluminum plate.


mine's mounted on a large heat sink from an early 90's computer power supply. the mounting bracket blocks most of the heat from transferring into the heat sink.


----------



## slackjack (Jan 16, 2009)

would a line conditioner save alot of money on 4 digi 240v ballasts, 2 fans, 4 pumps, etc?


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## CrackerJax (Jan 16, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Local codes might over rule. Can you state NEC on the alum wiring?



Local codes are exactly that....local. I'm just stating that contrary to a previous post that indicated that aluminium wire had been banned, it has not been banned. It is still in use today. That's all. Don't read any more into it plz.


Is it something I would recommend? No..... not because of codes or safety (no safety issue really), but because it's hard to find  Copper is everywhere.

I just want people to have the correct info. else it gets repeated down the line. 



out.


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## XxstelxX (Jan 17, 2009)

cracker aluminum romex is not allowed per NEC whcih is NATIONAL ELCTRICAL CODE NOT LOCAL im not sure where u get yur info but aluminum romex is not even manufactured anymore becaues of the fire hazards it has caused . The only aluminum wire used today as i stated is of type SE and other types of single wire applications for services and such. It is not LOCAL pal IT IS NATIONAL NEC. Are you even an electrician?? I doubt it because you would know this if you where.


----------



## therealup (Jan 17, 2009)

Hi guyz,

Don't know if I am in the right thread but hey! Might as well post it here and see.

I have a basement in my house and I am planning on using part of it for a grow room. A small one, 4"x 6" x 4 1/2". I bought a 250 watt HID kit. I would like to run everything from one 15 amps circuit. It should include; intake fan, outake fan, in room fan, fluo for seed growing and a little light for servicing plants. Am I asking to much out of a 15 amps circuit?

Hop!


----------



## winkdogg420 (Jan 17, 2009)

i would use a GOOD surge protector with gfi and you will be fine! also when you get it all fired up feel the cover plate on the outlet it should never get much warmer than the wall next to it! hope this makes sense if the outlet warms up split the stuff up on two circuts!

ps my grow is in a basement 4x4 room i built for 30usd give or take chack it out!~




therealup said:


> Hi guyz,
> 
> Don't know if I am in the right thread but hey! Might as well post it here and see.
> 
> ...


----------



## therealup (Jan 17, 2009)

Thank you!

Better be safe than sorry, I'll use 2 x 15 amps circuits. The only problem is my house is not new, only have a 85 amps panel for the entire house... It would cost me a bit over 2000$ to regulate it to 200 amps.... Mmmm. Anyway, a real thank you for your dedicated answer!

Peace!


----------



## therealup (Jan 17, 2009)

> ps my grow is in a basement 4x4 room i built for 30usd give or take chack it out!~


Sorry, I am a noob at growing, what 30usd mean? 

Regards


----------



## winkdogg420 (Jan 17, 2009)

Keep it safe and clean and you should be fine! Remember you have the lights on to be careful with large applances -washer-dryer-dishwasher-try to run these when lights are off. I would light at night power is cheaper at night plus nobody does laundry or dishes at 2am ya know! 


Best of luck ! Post pics when you set it up ! If you have any more ?s just ask plenty of people here to help!11 





therealup said:


> thank you!
> 
> Better be safe than sorry, i'll use 2 x 15 amps circuits. The only problem is my house is not new, only have a 85 amps panel for the entire house... It would cost me a bit over 2000$ to regulate it to 200 amps.... Mmmm. Anyway, a real thank you for your dedicated answer!
> 
> Peace!


----------



## CrackerJax (Jan 19, 2009)

XxstelxX said:


> cracker aluminum romex is not allowed per NEC whcih is NATIONAL ELCTRICAL CODE NOT LOCAL im not sure where u get yur info but aluminum romex is not even manufactured anymore becaues of the fire hazards it has caused . The only aluminum wire used today as i stated is of type SE and other types of single wire applications for services and such. It is not LOCAL pal IT IS NATIONAL NEC. Are you even an electrician?? I doubt it because you would know this if you where.


I stated aluminium wiring is not banned. This is correct in every way.

You injected "Romex" into the equation, not I. I am quite aware of the NEC...... I have worked on everything from 13,400vac to 12 volt direct relay work.


Al wiring is still in use today....don't make more out of it. I still reccommend copper for these folks....for the third time.


out.


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 19, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> I stated aluminium wiring is not banned. This is correct in every way.
> 
> You injected "Romex" into the equation, not I. I am quite aware of the NEC...... I have worked on everything from 13,400vac to 12 volt direct relay work.
> 
> Al wiring is still in use today....don't make more out of it. I still reccommend copper for these folks....for the third time.


the thing is, the conversation was on new work, not old, so Al wire wouldn't be available.


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## CrackerJax (Jan 19, 2009)

Anyone can buy Aluminium wiring...it's not banned...that's my point. New or old makes no dif.... Just a point of clarification....I'm not impuning your electrical savvy, just filling in the gaps and correcting misstatements. 

I still recommend Copper wiring although almost any aluminium hazards were due to improper installation, not defective wiring.


out.


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## billdubz785 (Jan 19, 2009)

How about adding more sockets, from the breaker? Or maybe there's an easier way to take an existing socket pull it out and be able to get more out of it? I know nothing really about this... Or is there an easy book or website to learn this kind of stuff?

I'll be moving into a new place in the fall and I'm sure I won't have plenty of outlets in one room for 2X1000w bulbs, a humidifier, 450 and 188 cfm fans, heater/AC, etc. etc.


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## CrackerJax (Jan 19, 2009)

billdubz785 said:


> How about adding more sockets, from the breaker? Or maybe there's an easier way to take an existing socket pull it out and be able to get more out of it? I know nothing really about this... Or is there an easy book or website to learn this kind of stuff?


You can buy a multi plug strip like you use for your computer.... as long as you don't overload the circuit, you'll be fine. You'll also get another safety fuse in the strip, which is always a plus.


Good Luck...

out.


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 19, 2009)

billdubz785 said:


> How about adding more sockets, from the breaker? Or maybe there's an easier way to take an existing socket pull it out and be able to get more out of it? I know nothing really about this... Or is there an easy book or website to learn this kind of stuff?
> 
> I'll be moving into a new place in the fall and I'm sure I won't have plenty of outlets in one room for 2X1000w bulbs, a humidifier, 450 and 188 cfm fans, heater/AC, etc. etc.


you can add more outlets, but you will still have the same 15 or 20 amp limit on the circuit. everything on the same circuit adds up.


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## weedaweedaweed (Jan 19, 2009)

weedaweedaweed said:


> How much wattage can I safely run out of a light socket? I have no wall outlets in my room, i've just used an adapter to run a few CFLs from one light socket, and am temporarily using an extension cord to provide electricity from another room.



anybody know?


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 19, 2009)

weedaweedaweed said:


> anybody know?


you should be able to run a few cfl bulbs on it. just use common sense and keep it safe. you could also run an extension cord from another room.


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## weedaweedaweed (Jan 19, 2009)

yeah that's what I'm doing now, it's just less stealthy having a big yellow cord running across the house.


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 19, 2009)

weedaweedaweed said:


> yeah that's what I'm doing now, it's just less stealthy having a big yellow cord running across the house.


true true..


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## billdubz785 (Jan 19, 2009)

ok then let me see if I'm understanding I've got a 20 amp breaker, so that means I can run up to 20 amps in each socket running off that breaker or each pair of sockets?

and the only other way besides extension cords is learning how to run more sockets from the breaker?


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 19, 2009)

billdubz785 said:


> ok then I've got a 20 amp breaker, so that means I can run up to 20 amps in each socket running off that breaker or each pair of sockets?


the total of everything plugged into every outlet on that breaker


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## billdubz785 (Jan 19, 2009)

lorenzo08 said:


> you can add more outlets, but you will still have the same 15 or 20 amp limit on the circuit. everything on the same circuit adds up.


all outlets combined connected to the breaker can't exceed 20 amps?


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 19, 2009)

billdubz785 said:


> so the circuit is a single outlet or the pair of outlets?


my circuit, I mean everything connected to the one breaker. example, if you have a 20 amp breaker, adding up everything plugged into outlets on that same circuit can't come close or over that 20 amp limit or you'll have trouble with it tripping.


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## The Virginian (Jan 19, 2009)

kushmonster said:


> I've been a member here for almost a month now and I see alot of people asking electrical questions...
> 
> I've been an Electrician for about 10yrs now so if someone has a question pertaining to electrical or wiring, I'll be happy to help if I can


hey thanks dude some times getting info can make you not want to anyway how wil my bill go up using 400 watters?


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## CrackerJax (Jan 19, 2009)

each 400 watt bulb ( you didn't say how many) draws about 4 amps. Not much as far as electrical bills go.



out.


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## ManikMarijuana (Jan 20, 2009)

i got a question, iv got numerous cfl's and a problem with my wiring i wanna know if its possible to wire all my light sockets on to one plug and if not possible then how many sockets could i wire up to one plug? they all just regulat cfl bulbs, the screw in ones and a few bayonet caps. thanx for help in advance!


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## CrackerJax (Jan 20, 2009)

ManikMarijuana said:


> i got a question, iv got numerous cfl's and a problem with my wiring i wanna know if its possible to wire all my light sockets on to one plug and if not possible then how many sockets could i wire up to one plug? they all just regulat cfl bulbs, the screw in ones and a few bayonet caps. thanx for help in advance!



Your answer is in the previous 2 pages....

Watts divided by volts = draw


out.


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 20, 2009)

i have no heat issues or draw problems my whole room is on a 15 amp breaker i think im only using 6 amps with all my lights ant the timer and fan. common sense can help here too if your extension cord is warm your pushing the limit! i make sure that thr romex running to the breaker box stays cool too, nothing even warms up in my basement!




ManikMarijuana said:


> i got a question, iv got numerous cfl's and a problem with my wiring i wanna know if its possible to wire all my light sockets on to one plug and if not possible then how many sockets could i wire up to one plug? they all just regulat cfl bulbs, the screw in ones and a few bayonet caps. thanx for help in advance!


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## panta (Jan 21, 2009)

can i use a 250mh bulb in 400w reflector


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## CrackerJax (Jan 21, 2009)

panta said:


> can i use a 250mh bulb in 400w reflector



Yes, that's affirmative.... you can.


out.


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## ManikMarijuana (Jan 21, 2009)

winkdogg420 said:


> i have no heat issues or draw problems my whole room is on a 15 amp breaker i think im only using 6 amps with all my lights ant the timer and fan. common sense can help here too if your extension cord is warm your pushing the limit! i make sure that thr romex running to the breaker box stays cool too, nothing even warms up in my basement!


how did u run all your cfl's and stuff off 1plug? i gotta know that!


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## ManikMarijuana (Jan 21, 2009)

do u plug them all into outlets on a circuit thats just plugged into an extention and run to 1plug?


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## chucktownskunk (Jan 21, 2009)

its 1 amp per 100 watts and i run 15 amps on a 20amp breaker!!! whatever you do dont let your girl use the hair drier upstairs or the lights will go out!!


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 21, 2009)

both vanity lights are wired together to 1 plug=16 bulbs and i have a three outlet adapter on my timer the other four bulbs plug into that the timer and fan are on a powerstrip fan stays on when lights go out ! the power strip plugs into 1 outlet! 20 bulbs 1timer 1fan one plug!! nothing even gets warm!! the power strip is gfi-surge protection must be a good one no dollar store powerstrips!!




ManikMarijuana said:


> how did u run all your cfl's and stuff off 1plug? i gotta know that!


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## connollyeamo (Jan 21, 2009)

iv a quiestion iv 3 hindu kush growin at the min nd they are gettin 2 big for the space i have them in , i made a tank for my snake nd its really big , i was thinkin of halfin it off nd puttin them in there , ya yhink the smell would effect the snake???


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 21, 2009)

the snake could break the plant trying to climb on it . the plant shouldnt hurt the snake though!




connollyeamo said:


> iv a quiestion iv 3 hindu kush growin at the min nd they are gettin 2 big for the space i have them in , i made a tank for my snake nd its really big , i was thinkin of halfin it off nd puttin them in there , ya yhink the smell would effect the snake???


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## Dirtfree (Jan 21, 2009)

I dont know if someone has already asked this but i couldnt find it in here. I ran a new line from my box to my grow room and come to find out it is 240. I would like to split this down to two lines of 120. If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated!!! I need to fire up my new light like NOW! Just a lil more info.. it is on a dual 40 breaker. Thanks again


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 21, 2009)

You can put a transformer in-line to give you 2x120v feeds i think you can buy a box that will make the split easy! I think a few pages back there is a full description of how this works!




dirtfree said:


> i dont know if someone has already asked this but i couldnt find it in here. I ran a new line from my box to my grow room and come to find out it is 240. I would like to split this down to two lines of 120. If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated!!! I need to fire up my new light like now! Just a lil more info.. It is on a dual 40 breaker. Thanks again


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## Dirtfree (Jan 21, 2009)

Thank you for your response Winkdogg! When you say transformer do you mean a pannel box or breaker box?? How would i go about finding one? Once again thank you my friend!


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 21, 2009)

i have never ran across this problem in my grow or my work but like i said i know there is something available i will find you something and post it here ok!




Dirtfree said:


> Thank you for your response Winkdogg! When you say transformer do you mean a pannel box or breaker box?? How would i go about finding one? Once again thank you my friend!


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 21, 2009)

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/1500W-AC-Power-Voltage-Converter-Transformer-240V-120V_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ370133416530

ebay has it all . you might be able to get one cheaper !!






Dirtfree said:


> Thank you for your response Winkdogg! When you say transformer do you mean a pannel box or breaker box?? How would i go about finding one? Once again thank you my friend!


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 21, 2009)

http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=SKT651004&seeimage=YES&img_name=651004_CO1

here is a more simple one!!!






Dirtfree said:


> Thank you for your response Winkdogg! When you say transformer do you mean a pannel box or breaker box?? How would i go about finding one? Once again thank you my friend!


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## Dirtfree (Jan 21, 2009)

Winkdogg you are the F-ing MAN!!! or woman, whatever! Thank you!


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 21, 2009)

dirtfree told me so!!! no prob dirt free glad to help! be safe and good luck!





Dirtfree said:


> Winkdogg you are the F-ing MAN!!! or woman, whatever! Thank you!


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## Dirtfree (Jan 21, 2009)

I dont think either of those will work because I just have a new line out there. I need something like a panel box. 240 comes in with a couple breakers and i run 120 lines out. Ya know what im sayin? This is the power supply for my whole grow room. I dont want any ext. cords or adapters or BS. Nice, neat and clean.


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 21, 2009)

Ok i just looked it up where the two main wires come in they are 120v each combined to make 240 volt all you need to do is take 1 of the main leads and a ground and there you have it 120v . Just get a junction box and run 1 leg of the 240 and a ground to it and you should have 120v ...i just googled "240volts to 120 volts" plenty of info there! 




dirtfree said:


> i dont think either of those will work because i just have a new line out there. I need something like a panel box. 240 comes in with a couple breakers and i run 120 lines out. Ya know what im sayin? This is the power supply for my whole grow room. I dont want any ext. Cords or adapters or bs. Nice, neat and clean.


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## Dirtfree (Jan 21, 2009)

Once again you da MAN!


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 21, 2009)

Im not sure if your 240v is two phase if it is than you can split it like you want to . If you are3 getting 240v from both leads in then you need a stepdown transformer they do make a model that fits in a breaker box but they are 150$ usd . Im not 100% on this but im pretty sure if you take a meter and read 1 side of that 240v and ground the other test lead youy should get 120v... 

A ? For real electricians is all 240volt two phase?? Its like running two 120v lines from the pole and using them both to make 240v correct/?


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## XxstelxX (Jan 21, 2009)

careful ground is not suppose to carry current if u use green wire to get 120 u will be putting return current on that ground must have a nuetral or white wire for 120. White carries volatge and current back to panel to complete circuit if u are useing the ground to make 120 u have then just made your ground wire a current carrying conductor which it is not designed for and could caue trouble in other parts of that circuit if u remove that ground while in use u will get zapped becaue it is completeing the path for the electricity to flow i would not suggest doing this because now your ground is not longer a ground it is carrying current and is not going to be safe at all man. Trust me im an electrician for 10 years. If your 240 has a nuetral (white) then thats what u want to use to make 120 not the green or bare copper. It will measure 120 but anything that ground is hooked too can become HOT aka light fixtures ballast houseing. Dirt free u can post in my journel i will be more then glad to return help seeings how you are helping me with my journel.


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## XxstelxX (Jan 21, 2009)

240 is both legs of electricity comeing into your panel DO NOT USE GROUND FOR 120 this is BAD!!! you must have a nuetral or white wire for 120. Ground is there for saftey and saftey only shorts and such. White or nuetral completes the circuit for current flow. Ground is there so any metal parts like your ballast housing and light houseing , anything that is metal with electricity going through has a Ground (green) to prevent you from getting shocked in case of a short or open circuit. Do not use ground to create 120 you must use nuetral for 120. Its to keep u from getting hurt. You can only get 120 from a 240 source if there is a nuetral available (white wire) , that is the wire that the completes the circuit and lets current flow. Green wire is ground to prevent injury to you and others. I hope i made myslef clear. and btw 240 is called single phase and all houses are single phase not 2 phase.


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 21, 2009)

thank you for clearing that up like i said i knew a real eletrician would straighten out! yes neatral not ground duh SORRY . so dirtfree do you have a neutral wire(white????) and two black and a green/bare??? if so your good to go just read the whole post by XxstelxX that should do it!!

and thanks for straightening me out on the two phase thing! so i guess two phase is when you start doubling 240v lines??





XxstelxX said:


> 240 is both legs of electricity comeing into your panel DO NOT USE GROUND FOR 120 this is BAD!!! you must have a nuetral or white wire for 120. Ground is there for saftey and saftey only shorts and such. White or nuetral completes the circuit for current flow. Ground is there so any metal parts like your ballast housing and light houseing , anything that is metal with electricity going through has a Ground (green) to prevent you from getting shocked in case of a short or open circuit. Do not use ground to create 120 you must use nuetral for 120. Its to keep u from getting hurt. You can only get 120 from a 240 source if there is a nuetral available (white wire) , that is the wire that the completes the circuit and lets current flow. Green wire is ground to prevent injury to you and others. I hope i made myslef clear. and btw 240 is called single phase and all houses are single phase not 2 phase.


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## XxstelxX (Jan 21, 2009)

2 phase is really not used at it has to do with electric motors its something i have only heard of not ever seen. Houses are single phase and most commercial buildings are 3 phase 208/277/480 voltages. single phase is 120/240 mostly and thats about it. good luck


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 21, 2009)

XxstelxX said:


> 2 phase is really not used at it has to do with electric motors its something i have only heard of not ever seen. Houses are single phase and most commercial buildings are 3 phase 208/277/480 voltages. single phase is 120/240 mostly and thats about it. good luck



NA 220/240 is 2 phase. Think about it. trip phase 480 is 3 legs 120 degrees out. 2 phase is 2 leg 180 out. The phase shifts need to add up to 360.

Any leg on a trip phase Wye 480 measured to ground is what? About 277. Do the math and you get 480VAC between phases. (trip phase Delta usually has that wild leg and gives strange measurements in relation to ground)


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## XxstelxX (Jan 21, 2009)

dude single phase is 120/240 are u an electrician? houses are single phase not 2 phase sorry its called single phase even when both legs are used to make 240. and the math is not as easy as adding it up because there is triganometry envloved because its AC electricity. AC is a sin wave postive and neg. DC is a straight line so it can be added up. I went to school for 4 years man 2 phase is only used in factories where certain motors come into play and i believe they are old and outdated. So i suggest u do some reading up on it man 2 phase is NOT 120/240 its called single phase and every house in the US just about is single phase. Excpetion this guy i wired his house had a garage with CNC machines in it he proto-typed parts for porsche racing and we brought 3 phase to his houses cost him 9 grand just to get 3 phase to his house hahah fucken rich prick. anyways i asked this question in school as well and i was told what im telling you. Learned it in my first year of electrical school man. 120/240 is callled single phase each phase opposes each other so when the sin wave one one leg is at a + number the opposite phase is at a - number thus its called single phase and thats how u get 240. try to buy a 2 phase transformer if u do not believe me they will look at you like you have 3 eyes or somthin. IM tellin the truth here ITS SINGLE PHASE. Call your power company and ask if they supply 2 phase see what they say you are wrong man its called single phase. all 2 wire services are called single phase. Try to buy an electrical panle for your house it will say SINGLE PHASE ON IT not 2 phase. go to homedepot and lookat the panels they say it right on them.


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 21, 2009)

SPLIT PHASE!


Three-wire, 120/240 volt single phase power used in the USA and Canada is sometimes incorrectly called "two-phase". The proper term is _split phase_ or _3-wire _

_just a simple mistake thanks wiki!_


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 22, 2009)

Whats the dif between a leg and a phase?

math is math. You sound like a girl I once knew "Thats trig, thats not math" we had a good chuckle over that. no shot at ya)
Why is trip phase 480 obtained by measuring any 2 leg of the 277? Because of the phase shift of the sine wave (120 degrees out) Now, if those same two legs were 180 degree out of phase what would you get?
Just toss it up on a scope and adjust the cursors and you will see.
The voltage is measured from a top peak to the intersection at the bottom of the other leg. Can't go peak to peak, because the two peaks don't happen at the same time on trip phase. 
Ever use a single leg of trip phase? Is that one leg still triple phase? No. its one leg, one sine wave, one phase.

'2 phase' may be an incorrect term, but household AC reacts and the math covers it as 2 phase. Its 2 sine wave that are not in phase (in sync or whatever you care to call it)

As for the porche guy, why not just use a phase converter? They have the rotary and slid state versions. Quicker, cheaper and just as good.



XxstelxX said:


> dude single phase is 120/240 are u an electrician? houses are single phase not 2 phase sorry its called single phase even when both legs are used to make 240. and the math is not as easy as adding it up because there is triganometry envloved because its AC electricity. AC is a sin wave postive and neg. DC is a straight line so it can be added up. I went to school for 4 years man 2 phase is only used in factories where certain motors come into play and i believe they are old and outdated. So i suggest u do some reading up on it man 2 phase is NOT 120/240 its called single phase and every house in the US just about is single phase. Excpetion this guy i wired his house had a garage with CNC machines in it he proto-typed parts for porsche racing and we brought 3 phase to his houses cost him 9 grand just to get 3 phase to his house hahah fucken rich prick. anyways i asked this question in school as well and i was told what im telling you. Learned it in my first year of electrical school man. 120/240 is callled single phase each phase opposes each other so when the sin wave one one leg is at a + number the opposite phase is at a - number thus its called single phase and thats how u get 240. try to buy a 2 phase transformer if u do not believe me they will look at you like you have 3 eyes or somthin. IM tellin the truth here ITS SINGLE PHASE. Call your power company and ask if they supply 2 phase see what they say you are wrong man its called single phase. all 2 wire services are called single phase. Try to buy an electrical panle for your house it will say SINGLE PHASE ON IT not 2 phase. go to homedepot and lookat the panels they say it right on them.


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## Dirtfree (Jan 22, 2009)

At least invite me if you are going to have a heated debate about me...LOL... Anyways it worked! My grow room didnt burn down and im still here. It took some thinking to get it to work but its fully operational. 

So this is how it went. I have three wires Black White and Green. Both the white and black are hot with 120v running thru them. The green which is normally ground, is my neutral. This would be alot easier if i took pics last night. So forget colors! I took one hot wire(w) and the neutral(g) for one side of the room and the other hot and the neutral and ran it to the other side of the room. Added outlets in a daisy chain and some out lets have thermostats for the fans and such. Everything works perfect. I was a lil worried so i did a test running everything at once, to try to overload or short something. Nope didnt happen. My voltage didnt even dip when my heater came on! I ran everything for over an hour, I mean everything. Of course on a normal day only half the stuff would be running at once. Gentlemen we are good!! 

*XxstelxX* Thanks for chiming in! I will take some pics tonight and let you look over what i did. Im glad i could help you on your grow and now you are helping me!


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 22, 2009)

i think bigbudballs said not to use the ground as a neutral?? if you are using the ground as neutral what is acting as your ground?? you cant safely run 120 or 240 withouta ground. im pretty sure that without two whites and two blacks you shouldnt split it????? i just want everyboy safe...






Dirtfree said:


> At least invite me if you are going to have a heated debate about me...LOL... Anyways it worked! My grow room didnt burn down and im still here. It took some thinking to get it to work but its fully operational.
> 
> So this is how it went. I have three wires Black White and Green. Both the white and black are hot with 120v running thru them. The green which is normally ground, is my neutral. This would be alot easier if i took pics last night. So forget colors! I took one hot wire(w) and the neutral(g) for one side of the room and the other hot and the neutral and ran it to the other side of the room. Added outlets in a daisy chain and some out lets have thermostats for the fans and such. Everything works perfect. I was a lil worried so i did a test running everything at once, to try to overload or short something. Nope didnt happen. My voltage didnt even dip when my heater came on! I ran everything for over an hour, I mean everything. Of course on a normal day only half the stuff would be running at once. Gentlemen we are good!!
> 
> *XxstelxX* Thanks for chiming in! I will take some pics tonight and let you look over what i did. Im glad i could help you on your grow and now you are helping me!


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## Dirtfree (Jan 22, 2009)

Thanks for your concern winkdogg but i grounded every outlet to the board i have everything mounted to. Safety is my main concern. I dont need my house to burn down. Tonight i am going to test everything for eight hours. Thanks again for your help guys!!


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 22, 2009)

so you ran seperate earth grounds from the outlets to the panel??? that should do it!! great work stay safe! pis would be great whn your all setup!


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## XxstelxX (Jan 22, 2009)

as for the porsche guy we had phase converters running to big cnc machines but he wanted to add like 5 more cnc machines so he bulit a huge attached garage then cam the 3 phase. Phase converters are really expensive and do not provide very clean power. So yes the first solution was phase concersters but he expanded so he wanted 3 phase at his house. LOL he lived down a dirt road in New Hampshire. Anyways we could argue all day and the math thing is a smart ass remark man stick to the facts. Anytime you deal with 3 phase a factor of 1.73 comes into play. Did you go to homedepot and look at the panels???????? Did you call your power comapny and ask for a 2 phase service I think not becasue like i said they would look at you like u have 3 eyes. Yes there are 2 phases in a house BUT its called single phase man wtf is wrong with you Look at any panel you buy a single phase and a 3 phase panels NOT fucken 2 phase smarten the fuck up man.


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## Dirtfree (Jan 22, 2009)

Relax buddy, I dont want anyone getting upset because of a question. I got what i was looking for and everthing is all good! Some people like to argue just to argue. Im not one of those people. Ill get some pics up soon so you can see the finished product.


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## ManikMarijuana (Jan 22, 2009)

just wanna be safe and ask if my set up is ok to run without burning out or tripping anything and able to run for up to 12h a day just to be safe - heres what i hav going and a pic - 

3 bulbs ruuning off there own plugs (srew ins)
2 bayonet cap bulbs running off 1plug wired to a switch
1 screw in bulb running off its own plug but its a 2prong plug (like used for radios and dvd players and stuff, dont think it has a earth)
also hav a pc fan, wired to a cellphone charger
and finaly just a normal fan.

they all plugged into an adapter if u could call it that, im not too clued up on the electric lingo bt ull see in the pic and then that just has a short cable wich plugs into an exstention and then finaly into a plug point in my wall. just need reassurance i guess that it aint gonna over heat some circuit or trip cuz iv plugged shit in be4 and tripped allot times so just wanna get it rite. Thanx for help in advance! and to all growers - GROW MONSTER NUGGS!


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## XxstelxX (Jan 22, 2009)

looks fine to me man nice plant


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## ManikMarijuana (Jan 23, 2009)

Thanx! yeah the lights went on this morning and everything seemed to be fine so i guess its all good!


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## codwalop (Jan 26, 2009)

hi! trying to sort out a mother cupboard, currently working on ventilation, just have a quick (and probably stupid) question..

with computer fans and wiring to 12VDC 1A output adaptor (an old mobile phone charger), can multiple fans be run off this safely?

and is it just a matter of splicing the two fans from the wires on the adaptor? in another thread it mentioned wiring the fans inline or in parallel, this confused me also..

im trying to get my head around whether 12VDC output means it will power as many 12V fans as need be, as long as the load amperage doesn't exceed the maximum output amperage of the adaptor..

or does it split the 12V into 6V for each fan, spinning each fan slower etc

im sure this has been answered before but i spent a while looking around.... 

regards


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## XxstelxX (Jan 26, 2009)

codwalop said:


> hi! trying to sort out a mother cupboard, currently working on ventilation, just have a quick (and probably stupid) question..
> 
> with computer fans and wiring to 12VDC 1A output adaptor (an old mobile phone charger), can multiple fans be run off this safely?
> 
> ...


ok i hvae a trickle charger running 6 cpu fans that are also dc voltage. most computer dc fans draw about .15 amps. my trickle charger puts out 1 amp safely without overheating at 12 volts. so 6 times .15 equals .9 amps and its running just fine. Check the current rateing on the charger and the current draw on the fans and addd them up and do not exceed charger spec. You would wire these in parellel which means you can splice all black together and all reds together this is parrellel. O and if fan does not run switch leads around. hope i helped


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 26, 2009)

twist all the reds together and all the black together red to + black to -. thats it, dont worry about series and paralel, you dont need to know about these yet.


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## BigBudBalls (Jan 26, 2009)

XxstelxX said:


> as for the porsche guy we had phase converters running to big cnc machines but he wanted to add like 5 more cnc machines so he bulit a huge attached garage then cam the 3 phase. Phase converters are really expensive and do not provide very clean power. So yes the first solution was phase concersters but he expanded so he wanted 3 phase at his house. LOL he lived down a dirt road in New Hampshire. Anyways we could argue all day and the math thing is a smart ass remark man stick to the facts. Anytime you deal with 3 phase a factor of 1.73 comes into play. Did you go to homedepot and look at the panels???????? Did you call your power comapny and ask for a 2 phase service I think not becasue like i said they would look at you like u have 3 eyes. Yes there are 2 phases in a house BUT its called single phase man wtf is wrong with you Look at any panel you buy a single phase and a 3 phase panels NOT fucken 2 phase smarten the fuck up man.


Euro is single phase 230, *single* hot and a neural. Our is a bastardized version. Calling it single phase, from a physics standpoint, is, well, just incorrect. But the 'name' is just a semantics game.

Call it anything ya like. I'm much more from an engineering base, then electrician. (lots of common man 'buzz words' in the trades that are technically incorrect.)


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## panta (Jan 26, 2009)

i have a problem can somebody help me,yesterday i gave my electrician this reflectore that i use 400w i told him to rewire it so that the ballast has a separate cable and then i made a cooltube from it.today i pluged it in and the starter was buzzing but the bulb is not working so i replaced the bulb and again the same sound from the starter but no light.what could this be and how can i connect it properly if its not right now couse i cant take it to anybody now,how could i explain the holes on the side i dont want to cause any suspicion


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 26, 2009)

just post good pics of the wiring someone on here can straighten it out for you prob just a crossed wire/to long of a wire maybe? i know you cant have the cap to far from the main ballast/.... pics bro pics!!!!!!!


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## panta (Jan 26, 2009)

this si the 600w thats working


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## panta (Jan 26, 2009)

this is the 400w thats making that sound but the bulbs not responding,im a noob for this but it makes me thing that the starter is screwed,but it was working just fine before this guy rewired it


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## panta (Jan 26, 2009)

one more pic


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 26, 2009)

maybe the tw white and the two black wires are not making good contact. take them out of that conector and twist wre nuts on them, that should secure the conection but that might not be the prob??


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 26, 2009)

or maybe its wired incorectly did it work when he was done wireing it??


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## XxstelxX (Jan 26, 2009)

need more info man like which is power coming in and which is light. Cannot determine if its wired right without knowing what wire comeing in is what. and what is supply voltage as well.


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## panta (Jan 27, 2009)

it did work before he rewired it,what does that mean which is power coming in and which is light,how can i find wich is supply voltage as well,im probably asking stupid questions but im a complete noob when it comes to this


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 27, 2009)

In the pic, is the left wire going to the bulb or are the right wires going to the bulb??


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## panta (Jan 27, 2009)

2 hours ago i unscrewed the cable from the reflector and took the whole thing back to that electrician,so tomorow will see thanks for the help anyway


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 27, 2009)

good idea but he cant testit without the socket and bulb??? maybe he has them laying around ...if he is a macguyver type comando electrician he will


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## panta (Jan 27, 2009)

i gave him everything ,took the bulb and the socket of


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 27, 2009)

Nice is it fixed?? Im sure it wont take him long??


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## gtlimited (Jan 28, 2009)

winkdogg420 said:


> Nice is it fixed?? Im sure it wont take him long??



hi i hav a question
my 15amps breaker keep blowin
i need a device that will let me plug in oven/drier/washer 240volt

and give me outlets in 120v

i seen some " step up and down transformer " devices.. is it what i need?


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## Dirtfree (Jan 28, 2009)

We just talked about this look a couple pages back. There is a couple different ways to do it. A sub-panel, an adapter(looks cheep) and a re-wire. I re wired mine and now i have two lines with 120v. Working great so far.


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## Dirtfree (Jan 28, 2009)

It starts on page 60. Hope this helps ya.


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## CrackerJax (Jan 29, 2009)

gtlimited said:


> hi i hav a question
> my 15amps breaker keep blowin
> i need a device that will let me plug in oven/drier/washer 240volt
> 
> ...



Okay, if you have an amp meter... turn on your equipment and then measure the draw (amps) If it is below 12 amps... you may just need to replace your breaker with a new one...they do wear out. 

Another very simple remedy if you are using 12 gauge (more than likely) is to simply slip in a 20 amp breaker instead. No need to transform the energy output.....unless you want to.


out.


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## panta (Jan 31, 2009)

i have 3 reflectors in my growroom,2 400w and 1 600w,i got this ballast out of the hood so it wouldnt release heat in the flowering room had this done on the 600w also the other 400w i left intact i use it for the mothers so its not a problem,every day i get to check on the flowering plants soon as the light come on the 600w works but the 400w doesnt start so i have to take it off and then it starts,why is this is the ballast to far away,i did cut the cable shorter now its about 4 feet is this to long again.any advice much appreciated


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 31, 2009)

"so i have to take it off and then it starts" TAKE IT OFF WHAT IM CONFUSED??







panta said:


> i have 3 reflectors in my growroom,2 400w and 1 600w,i got this ballast out of the hood so it wouldnt release heat in the flowering room had this done on the 600w also the other 400w i left intact i use it for the mothers so its not a problem,every day i get to check on the flowering plants soon as the light come on the 600w works but the 400w doesnt start so i have to take it off and then it starts,why is this is the ballast to far away,i did cut the cable shorter now its about 4 feet is this to long again.any advice much appreciated


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## panta (Jan 31, 2009)

off the chain from which it hangs,i didnt state that clear enough


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## winkdogg420 (Jan 31, 2009)

those big bulbs dont screw in to smooth maybe tighten it a bit or maybe there is a loose wire at the socket?? it comes on when you take the bulb/reflector off the chain right...? it has to be a loose connection somewhere?? pics of the wire and socket might help? just double check all the connections . but it sounds like it basicily needs to be "banged" to come on so maybe the bulb is bad??? and needs a tap to get going?? did the electrician have it all working ??




panta said:


> off the chain from which it hangs,i didnt state that clear enough


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## DoubleBubbler (Jan 31, 2009)

Wow, this is an awesome thread, so much knowledge... can anyone help me out with my elec. question? It's in my thread here.... https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/156921-cfl-operating-temperatures-bad-wiring.html


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## KooL BreeZe (Jan 31, 2009)

UserFriendly said:


> NO!
> 
> 
> 240
> ...


Electrical usage is based on kilowatt hours. The law of Ohm's. Divide the voltage into the wattage to get the amperage. Example a 1000 watts of light will cost the same no matter what voltage is applied. 120 volts into 1000 watts = 8.3 amps drawing power on a single pole breaker(one hot leg). 240 volts into 1000 watts= 4.16 amps drawing power on a double pole breaker(two hot legs). So a 1000 watts of light burning for 12 hours a day no matter what voltage is applied to the ballast, it will cost you 12 [email protected] $0.30 ( check elect. bill for your rate)= $3.60 a day, times 30 days= $ 108 per month. 
Remember the lower the voltage the higher the amperage, always be sure your breaker and wiring are size properly. You will always need a neutral wire for 120v, not need for 240v. Always make grounding connections for safety.
VERY IMPORTANT DO NOT OVERLOAD WIRES. Many ppl think, oh I'll just put a bigger breaker. NO STOP the wire has to match or exceed the breaker size. Ex. # 14 guage wire max. 15 amp, #12 wire max 20 amps, #10 wire max 30 amps. The higher the # the thinner the wire, thus holds less rated conductor amperage. Hope this clears up the myth of voltages. 
Electric bills are based on kilowatt hours of usage.


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## panta (Feb 1, 2009)

tonight il check the wires,its not the bulb i tryed it in the other reflector and it works perfect


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## CrackerJax (Feb 1, 2009)

Yes, let's be clear about this. It doesn't matter how you achieve your wattage goals, 120 vs.240. The energy bill for your system will be the same. 

That being said, a 2 pole breaker(240v) will cost you more than a single(120v). If you can wire it 120, it will invariably be simpler and cheaper. 

While high voltage is certainly common in the industry it is usually for power hungry machinery, not lights. Typically electrical motors need quite a bit of juice upfront to get going, and then reduces substantially. There are other reasons such as resistance and long distances of travel lines as well.

But for the most part every indoor light grow system can be safely powered 120. 

Take the money saved and buy a bong 


out.


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## winkdogg420 (Feb 1, 2009)

unless you have to use it or you get some hids for free that will only work at 240v stick with the 120v its just easier . if you are running 5kw 100 yards from the pole thats a different story! 




CrackerJax said:


> Yes, let's be clear about this. It doesn't matter how you achieve your wattage goals, 120 vs.240. The energy bill for your system will be the same.
> 
> That being said, a 2 pole breaker(240v) will cost you more than a single(120v). If you can wire it 120, it will invariably be simpler and cheaper.
> 
> ...


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## newyorksmoker (Feb 1, 2009)

right now i use a 150hps light and some fluoros for my grow.. 

One day i was watching my babygirl playing with an LED flash light and thats 
when the idea came to me...

im in HVAC classes and they have tought me something about electricity, wattage, voltage, amps, resistance, voltage drop, and Ohmz Law.. 

So my idea is just experiemental.. i want to buy some LEDS sodder them together
wire them up to a good power source and 
make a fixture out of reflecting sheet metal.. 

i have been searching where i can buy some LEDs fresh out the box.. im really not concerned with the wavelenght to the LEDs because im just experiementing with any light.. i will just use it to veg maybe 2 plants.. and i want the total wattage to be less then 40 watts..

So my questions are ..
can you recommend a place where 
i can get some Leds for less..
and I would like to know what can i use for a power supply.. cus the amp draw on the leds are so small.. im scared i might burn them out.. 

so can you help me on this one..


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## winkdogg420 (Feb 1, 2009)

for experiments you can get leds at radio shack . not good for growing but better to learn with! you need the correct colors to get any type of good results i know they are still expensive like 2.50 each for red and blue and the orange they say you need is 4.00 each .but you can get a 5 pack for 2bux at radio shack to play with . you will need some type of transformer fow a power supply like a cell phone charger or cordless phone base plug 12vdc .. then you get resistors and soldier them to the led to protect it from going pop! what voltage and amperage depends on how many and what kind of leds used but i think 10.00 at the closest radio shack will help out>>>

-<<<<<<<<<<resistorL-___-beam
+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>E-____-beam
.............................D-___-beam

getit???????


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## CrackerJax (Feb 1, 2009)

I'm gonna try and grow some plants with lava lamps 



out.


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## billdubz785 (Feb 7, 2009)

I'd like to go solar for part of the room, I have a thread going in advanced marijuana cultivation... but what could you tell me about the price of an in-grid setup that could handle up to 50 and separately 100 AMPS at 120V 85% of the time on a 12 hour schedule. OR POINT ME IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION?


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## BigBudBalls (Feb 8, 2009)

billdubz785 said:


> I'd like to go solar for part of the room, I have a thread going in advanced marijuana cultivation... but what could you tell me about the price of an in-grid setup that could handle up to 50 and separately 100 AMPS at 120V 85% of the time on a 12 hour schedule. OR POINT ME IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION?


got about $30-50k to drop?


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## XxstelxX (Feb 8, 2009)

any solar setup for that much power is gonna be very very $$$$$$$$$$$ they just have not flooded the market with enough solar stuff yet and the technology is still in the works. Top of the line solar is only for the rich fuckin tree huggers who can afford to spend it. Reg guys like us just forget about it. Now a wind generator might be more doable if u are in a nice windy spot. Less expensive but still cost lots. In Vermont I have heard of people useing streams on there property to make hydro power from and they do pretty good with it. initial investment is alot man.


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## GypsyBush (Feb 17, 2009)

OK so I go to my ladies this morning and the whole thing is quiet, dark and way too spooky...

NO POWER TO THE WHOLE ROOM...

circuit breaker is not tripped, and if it was I have re-set it a few times...

Any suggestions? 

Fuck...


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## CrackerJax (Feb 17, 2009)

Yes, if you have a meter (you should), check both sides of the breaker with it on. If you have power on the panel side, and none on the out line... you have a bad breaker. 
Put one meter prong on the neutral bar (white wires& green), and the other on the live wire. try that first.

if you have power going out then, it's possible you have dropped your neutral wire coming back. Check your connections with the power OFF  bzzz..


Good Luck.


out.


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## winkdogg420 (Feb 17, 2009)

Most likely you were pushing a breaker too hard and it cooked replace the breaker and lighten the load on the circut!


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## GypsyBush (Feb 17, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Any suggestions?





CrackerJax said:


> Yes ...  bzzz..
> 
> 
> Good Luck.
> ...


Thanks Man...

I appreciate the quick reply...

I'll check it out...

Ahhhh! It's always something...

I am supposed to be in bed resting ... after surgery on my leg... and intead I am running around like a chicken with it's head cut-off... and stoned off my gord on pain killers....(post-op remember...)

I might call a buddy who has not taken 12 percocet today to help me out... 

Thanks a bunch for your help... +rep...


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## winkdogg420 (Feb 17, 2009)

Tell them the perk 5-10s are not working they make 15 and 30 mg perks now!!!!


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## GypsyBush (Feb 17, 2009)

winkdogg420 said:


> Most likely you were pushing a breaker too hard and it cooked replace the breaker and lighten the load on the circut!


Most likely you are correct... the house is old and I though I had enough of a buffer...

Plus we had some wild power fluctuations yesterday.. soooo.....

I'll check things out.. when my buddy gets here...

Thanks for all the help....

What I need is one of these... but at the price.. I am considering building one...

I have a 50 amp/240v dryer outlet not being used


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## GypsyBush (Feb 17, 2009)

winkdogg420 said:


> Tell them the perk 5-10s are not working they make 15 and 30 mg perks now!!!!


Believe me dude... I do not need more or stronger pills... 

I hate these things and can't wait to be man enough to deal with the pain...

I have already cut back... I was taking dilaudid... and morphine...

and now I am taking half of the percs I was last week...

I just need a little juice in my op that's all....

Thanks!


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## winkdogg420 (Feb 17, 2009)

Yup i think building one is a better idea you can get exactly what you need that way! Buy a big enough box to put all your elecs in it it makes a really pro setup!


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## GypsyBush (Feb 17, 2009)

yeah... but I am not the world's greatest electrician...

If I am going to run 240v and 50 amps.. I need to know WTF is going on... that kinda power can hurt someone... and if done incorrectly can burn my house down...

SOOOO....

What exactly is a TASCO T Box Standard Temporary Power Distribution Center  ...

They have this locally... but I am not sure it would do the same job as the box pictured on the previous post...

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100635359&N=10000003+90401+502754


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## winkdogg420 (Feb 17, 2009)

Might be a good idea but dont skimp on the extension cords you might need to spend $2-400 bucks on cords with that thing so a electrician might be the way to go....i know a 16 foot 50amp 240 extension cord is $99 bux at the building supply near me!





gypsybush said:


> yeah... But i am not the world's greatest electrician...
> 
> If i am going to run 240v and 50 amps.. I need to know wtf is going on... That kinda power can hurt someone... And if done incorrectly can burn my house down...
> 
> ...


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## GypsyBush (Feb 17, 2009)

Emergency set up... 

I have household extension cords spread through the house...

Look at this....

*A* - I have *16.4 amps* on 20 amp breaker *A*...

*B* - So there are 2x 6 bulb* bathroom lights and 3amps* going to 20 amp breaker *B*...

*C* - and *11.2 amps* on 20 amp
breaker *C*... not counting the 2 ceiling lights and the phone/answering machine...

How does this sound for safety?

It is just temporary... probably a couple of days...


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## winkdogg420 (Feb 17, 2009)

Your right on the edge but should be ok as a temp setup! I think the rule is 7.5 amps per 10 amps of breaker..15 on a 20 and so on ...


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## GypsyBush (Feb 17, 2009)

winkdogg420 said:


> Your right on the edge but should be ok as a temp setup! I think the rule is 7.5 amps per 10 amps of breaker..15 on a 20 and so on ...


Thanks!

I need more extension cords.... fuck...!!!!

Wanna see someone that can hardly get up out of bed, jump up and get to work????

Turn the power off in their OP.... fuck me....!!!!!!

Long Live *MORE* Percocet....


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## Isthisnametaken (Feb 17, 2009)

*Hoping someone can help me with a question.*

*Was wondering if (6) 600W ballast's could go on the same 240V 50amp breaker/circuit. I would be using the Lumatek brand that draw 2.7amp a piece according to their webpage. Grand total of 16.2 amps. Just not sure if there are other factors that I'm not considering.*

*(http://www.lumatek.co.uk/products.htm) *


*There is nothing else on the circuit.*

*Also wondering about how much that might make the electric bill go up.*

*Thanks!*


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## winkdogg420 (Feb 17, 2009)

That is more than enough power for you . As far as the bill depends where you live maybe $100.00-200.00 a month for 6-600watt lights




isthisnametaken said:


> *hoping someone can help me with a question.*
> 
> *was wondering if (6) 600w ballast's could go on the same 240v 50amp breaker/circuit. I would be using the lumatek brand that draw 2.7amp a piece according to their webpage. Grand total of 16.2 amps. Just not sure if there are other factors that i'm not considering.*
> 
> ...


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