# 1800 watts Sealed and CO2 Enriched."A Teachers Learning Process"



## Shrubs First (Dec 2, 2010)

Hey guys, I thought it fitting to restart my thread on my home grow. It was becoming a little unorganized and I would like to dedicate my "Controlled Environment Agriculture" thread to the 24kW warehouse space, and have this as my home grow.

First things first, the equipment.

(Pics from my last few grows)

Lighting is 3x 600 Watt HIDs.

I'm currently testing a couple Sunpulse Metal Halides outside of a HPS, it's my belief that just a little HPS lighting goes a long way underneath some Halides.






I don't need to duct the lights because my AC is more than adequate. 12,000 BTU Ductless Mini-Split from Grunaire.






For Dehumidifying I run a 70 Pint/day Frigidaire. I'll be keeping RH% around 55-60 for veg and 45-50 for flower.






CO2 is controlled using the Hydro Innovations monitor. Very simple, turns on at 1300ppm, turns off at 1500ppm.






It's sealed, so my Carbon Filter just recirculates. I also have Ona Gel sitting on the exhaust . Max Fan 6 inch has 3 settings, 220 CFM, 270 CFM, 320 CFM. With the Can 50 filter I have little smell if any in the rest of my home.






I have been working towards growing perpetually but due to the intensity of the warehouse I've decided it's just easier to slow it down and do one cycle at a time. It's personal consumption anyways. 

I will be growing 18 plants, 6 under each 600W, 9 Bruce Banners (OG Kush x Rez's Strawberry Diesel) and 9 Alient OGs.. Those will be in tonight.

I grow in Canna Coco using Canna Coco A+B and the rest of the Canna line with some other additives here and there.


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## pilgram (Dec 2, 2010)

do you have glass in those hoods? and if not is that why you got them so far away? and it all looks real nice.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 2, 2010)

pilgram said:


> do you have glass in those hoods? and if not is that why you got them so far away? and it all looks real nice.


Yes there's glass in the hoods, I've had the best growth with my 600's spaced around
28-34 inches from the canopy. At 30" from a 600 you're sittin at 9k-10k lumens. I've 
got 3 real close together, that's a lot of radiant heat.


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## ptone (Dec 2, 2010)

Subbed... looking forward to this! You said 6 Plants per light? What Size pot will you be finishing in?


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## Shrubs First (Dec 2, 2010)

ptone said:


> Subbed... looking forward to this! You said 6 Plants per light? What Size pot will you be finishing in?


Debating 3 or 5 gallon smart pots. I've always done 3 gallon, thats what I'm leaning towards.


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## ptone (Dec 2, 2010)

Shrubs First said:


> Debating 3 or 5 gallon smart pots. I've always done 3 gallon, thats what I'm leaning towards.


 Yeah 3 gallon smart pots is what I use under my 600. I can't imagine filling a 5 gallon smart pot unless vegged for 60 days.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 3, 2010)

ptone said:


> Yeah 3 gallon smart pots is what I use under my 600. I can't imagine filling a 5 gallon smart pot unless vegged for 60 days.


Meh, I kinda disagree, I vegged for just over three on my last Chem Sour Diesels and
would have benefited so much from 5 Gallon over the 3's. More water retention, and just
a ton more root space. In coco you're trying to achieve that perfect balance of moisture
for as long as possible, and I'm trying to not have to water every other day here so that would be
my 5 gallon argument.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 3, 2010)

18 clones in the room, to be potted tomorrow.

9 Alien OG #1's, henseforthe known as AOG






9 Bruce Banner #5's, to be known as BB


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## Shrubs First (Dec 3, 2010)

Its nice to take your time while potting, I feel it is necessary to create a bonded relationship between you and
your plants. I like to cut the top off off of a bag of coco and break it up between my hands until its a fine, grain like 
substrate. I try to minimalize the dense balls which can hold excess moisture or salts, and insure that everywhere
throughout the medium is uniform in propensity. Having a potting table on hand to dump the coco completely out of 
the bag is the quickest and easiest way to do this. Especially if your table is waist high, so that you need not bend
over and/or work on your knees all day. I have this luxury at the warehouse. At home, I sit on a bucket. 8D







The AOG's are marked using zip ties for now.







Couple of AOG root shots













BB root shots













BB's







BBs on right, AOG's on left







AOGs







Group Photo!!


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## jesushadafender (Dec 3, 2010)

Gotta say bro those clones roots look bomb. Rhizotonic is amazing stuff. Im really eager to see you document these and do a damn good job representing the genetics.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 3, 2010)

jesushadafender said:


> Gotta say bro those clones roots look bomb. Rhizotonic is amazing stuff. Im really eager to see you document these and do a damn good job representing the genetics.


Ha, no doubt.

So ya, I'm applying a mix of Rhizotonic, Mayan Microzyme, Hygrozyme and Great White to 
help these plants transition in to the Coco. No soluble ferts yet. I'll do that next feeding.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 3, 2010)

HASHISH!

Used the bubbleator today, as well as the new set of bags to make hash from the CSD trim. My old set was falling apart. 
Some of them had holes and it was just a mess.

Its super gooey though, full melt to the max, and it reaks and tastes like te Chem Sour D
il try and snap a melting picture tomorrow, as well as use the 200x scope at the dispensary 
to take some pics. Its pure though.













The lighter one is 90micron, the darker is 45micron. I never understood that, the higher the
quality the lighter the color should be, but thats never been the case when I make it. Either way
theyre both nice, but i like the 90 better, it's *full* melt and smokes better.


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## Pon De Floor (Dec 3, 2010)

Shrubs,

If this is half as informative and amazing as your controlled enviroment thread (which it already is) then count me in!

Clones look awesome, they'll do grrrrreat!


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## xivex (Dec 4, 2010)

Dude your setup is so gorgeous, its what I wished my setup was. Stupid knee-wall basement under stairs room... /me kicks room.  I wish I had that room!! I need more room in my room, argghhh!! I'm always bumping my friggin' head on the wall or some shit..lol. 

Seriously, very professional and sterile looking. Very lab-like. Great job. Gorgeous plants!


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## Shrubs First (Dec 4, 2010)

xivex said:


> Dude your setup is so gorgeous, its what I wished my setup was. Stupid knee-wall basement under stairs room... /me kicks room.  I wish I had that room!! I need more room in my room, argghhh!! I'm always bumping my friggin' head on the wall or some shit..lol.
> 
> Seriously, very professional and sterile looking. Very lab-like. Great job. Gorgeous plants!


Jeeez, thanks man. I appreciate it. I know what you mean though, I've been growing in this room for over a year now.
The thing is I have only been out of the 5'x5'x6' tent for like 5 months. So I know what you mean, I had 6 foot ceilings for way
too long. I finally acquired the balls (and dollars) to just drop the tent, add a light, grab the bad ass AC, CO2 monitor, and larger can fan.

I like the room much better nowadays.  

Thanks for checkin and the words.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 4, 2010)

Temp 75F, RH 35%, CO2 1400ppm. The RH is a little low, but until the plants get bigger
there's nothing that'll really change, I lower the temp a little here and there to get a little
RH spike, every 10F changes the RH by about 25%, so I'll have it at 80 for a little while at 15-20%
RH an then drop it to 70F and watch the RH rise to about 35-40%. The plants are showing a little
transplant shock, some drooping happening, I'm sure it also has to do with the acclimation to
the new environment all around.


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## xivex (Dec 4, 2010)

Oh ya one last thing..I wanna see those Alien OG's...sounds chronic! I read about those in HT and have seen the Cali Connection hype..I'm very curious to see how they turn out!


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## Shrubs First (Dec 4, 2010)

Serious, the Tahoe OG x Alien Tech. I'm really lookin forward to both of these variety.


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## jesushadafender (Dec 4, 2010)

Yea it'll really kick up the yield on the Tahoe as well as adding more resin to her. Im interested to see how the #1 pheno does as there are a few other people who got the #3. That hash looks great bro


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## Shrubs First (Dec 5, 2010)

jesushadafender said:


> Yea it'll really kick up the yield on the Tahoe as well as adding more resin to her. Im interested to see how the #1 pheno does as there are a few other people who got the #3. That hash looks great bro


Nice, that's what I'm looking for. The hash is amazing man, gotta come try it.

Hey on the clones for the warehouse, can you line em up to be done on December 16th?
I'll need another 90. 

How's the room coming? I'm not a member at THCfarmer, so my time spent over there is
very limited.

The clones in my room are lookin good, gonna give em their week one feeding today.

Typical AOG






BB






Preparing water for the fertilization.


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## jesushadafender (Dec 5, 2010)

Yea Ill see what I can do man, Ill take more tonight. Orders have been going out like crazy heres a pic of a few days ago. First pics are Chemdog Sour Diesels next are Oger99's and a few Glass Slippers. I really compacted the CSDs with that Silica its amazing


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## Shrubs First (Dec 5, 2010)

jesushadafender said:


> Yea Ill see what I can do man, Ill take more tonight. Orders have been going out like crazy heres a pic of a few days ago. First pics are Chemdog Sour Diesels next are Oger99's and a few Glass Slippers. I really compacted the CSDs with that Silica its amazing


What week are they in? They look great.

Please take cut those clones if you're sold out of this last batch already. I need to get the perpetual going
properly at the warehouse.


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## jesushadafender (Dec 5, 2010)

I still have plenty just wondering what you want to run there this next time? Theyre in like week 2 and Im really happy with their progress. You can be the first to run some Raskals if you want. We'll get ya hoooked up proper


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## Shrubs First (Dec 5, 2010)

jesushadafender said:


> I still have plenty just wondering what you want to run there this next time? Theyre in like week 2 and Im really happy with their progress. You can be the first to run some Raskals if you want. We'll get ya hoooked up proper


Woooo, week two, keep me updated how that silica goes, the next 3 weeks were crazy stretch for me.

I'd run those Raskals for sure, and I'd take pretty much anything else elite if you can get em in high numbers.
Maybe 30/30/30 again of some danks.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 5, 2010)

Fertilized the ladies.

4 gallons water
30 mL Coco A
30 mL Coco B
50 mL Rhizotonic
40 mL Cannazyme
10 mL Mayan Microzyme

EC 1.01, pH 6.0, Temp 65F


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## jesushadafender (Dec 5, 2010)

Mk Ill sit and have a session with the moms and see which elites will take kindly to some cloning. MMM maybe some Chem #4


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## Shrubs First (Dec 5, 2010)

Woot, roots are poking out of the bottom on several clones already, these pots
are 5"x5"x7", so they are a little deeper than a regular 5x5. Pearly whites two
days after potting.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 6, 2010)

Decided to make some changes, I think they're receiving too much light.

I turned off the HPS in the center and now have the 2 MH's running on the
outside. I think it should help the plants. And it'll save me $20 on the next 
energy bill.

I also turned the CO2 off. At least for the next week I will do that. The plants
went from average enviro, to maximum light/co2/air movement very fast. I
don't think it was a "smooth" transition. But they are showing improvement since
the last fertilizer application and things are on the way.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 8, 2010)

Solid growth, slow going, they look about the same as right there^^ still ..

Check back soon, or check the warehouse, more happening.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 10, 2010)

Anybody in Boulder, or Colorado area who can access The Rooster magazine should
definitely check out the January edition Bud of the Month. That Chem Sour Diesel
should be making a guest appearance as our dispensary's attraction herb.

Fertilized tonight

6 mL/G Coco A
6 mL/G Coco B
10 mL/G Rhizo
7 mL/G CannaZyme
1 tsp/G Great White

EC .9, pH 6.1 Temp 68F


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## jesushadafender (Dec 11, 2010)

WOOOOT! Good job bro. That makes me feel quite proud actually.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 12, 2010)

jesushadafender said:


> WOOOOT! Good job bro. That makes me feel quite proud actually.


For sure man, I'm stoked to see my nug as a centerfold in a magazine = )

Check the veggies.

AOG












BB


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## Shrubs First (Dec 16, 2010)

Lovin it. Look at these healthy ladies







Alien OG






Bruce Banner


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## AudiA6Driver (Dec 18, 2010)

AMAZING, rockin it man! Congrats on the center fold, I'd be stoked as fuck to have a center fold of your own work. Keep it up man! Subbed


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## Shrubs First (Dec 24, 2010)

Home garden is lookin good still. Been havin some nutritional disorders. 

Slight chlorosis of the inter-veins. As well as purpling of the petioles.

Now this can be brought about by many factors. One certainly is allowing the plants to get a 
little too dry between applications, 50% dry is the measure. Even this is allowing your salt to
water ratio to potentially double.

Another can be low temps decreasing flow rate, growing above 78F but below 82F is ideal. Humidity is very important because 
cool roots, below 72F and dry humidity, below 60% day in especially earlier stages (ideal is starting around 70-80% and 
dropping slowly to harvest at 50%), can cause a decrease in water movement through the plant. Any of these things can 
cause what also would be considered beginning root binding symptoms on older and bigger plants in containers. Adding 
Mycorrhizal fungii to the medium will hold the water stress down some but does not fix all the issues. All nutrients move 
into and through the plant in a water matrix!

Suction applied through transpiration at the leaf is as important as the supply at the other end. As the water slows, 
so does the nutrient flow which leads to the purpling of the stems. The plant begins shutting down less productive leaves to 
keep water moving to where it is needed and they do so in the manor described. Plants also exhibit a darker green 
from a thicker cuticle that forms to protect the leaves from desiccation and can take on a "tired" appearance. Increasing
the EC or salt concentration in the root zone by feeding higher, doing less leaching per watering, adding supplements 
like Cal Mag, or allowing the medium to run dry each time increases the effect by slowing the osmotic gradient that 
moves water and the nutrients into the plant. Slower gradient, slower water movement, slower nutrient movement, 
equals a water relation issue again.

I need to stabilize my EC and water more often, or use much larger pots.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 24, 2010)

AOG #3's






BB #5's


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## rastadred22 (Dec 28, 2010)

wow man lookin great over here too! def subbd


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## Shrubs First (Dec 28, 2010)

Potting and fertilizing today. Flowering cycle should be starting today or tomorrow. 
We'll see if I get my CO2 refilled and everything potted. Looks like I may not have
enough coco.


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## MEANGREEN69 (Dec 28, 2010)

cant tell but looks like you topped some of them?..if so do you top more then once?


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## Shrubs First (Dec 29, 2010)

MEANGREEN69 said:


> cant tell but looks like you topped some of them?..if so do you top more then once?



I topped every single one this time at around week 2. I didn't do it again because the
cut I made seemed to create perfect bushes and I don't want to mess with em. These
are some of the most perfectly postured and profiled plants I've grown.

Transplanted in to 5 gallons tonight. And fertilized. Flowering begins tomorrow.

Again they got a little too dry today, so they are a little "tired" looking.


Bruce Banners on Right, Alien OG #3's on the Left






Bruce Banners






Banners on right, AOGs on left






AOGs


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## jesushadafender (Dec 29, 2010)

Yea those do look quite uniform, spaced out nice and even going into bloom. I cant wait to see some Banner bud shots.


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## MEANGREEN69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Shrubs First said:


> I topped every single one this time at around week 2. I didn't do it again because the
> cut I made seemed to create perfect bushes and I don't want to mess with em. These
> are some of the most perfectly postured and profiled plants I've grown.


nice..now for the magic to start.


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## zem (Dec 29, 2010)

nice grow!


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## nugbuckets (Dec 29, 2010)

nice work, keep it up...sub'ed


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## Grow'N'Smoke (Dec 30, 2010)

Any success with your nutritional issues, did the transition to larger pots alleviate the problem?
Subbed.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 31, 2010)

Bigger pots have helped a lot. Much more stable root environment and accelerated growth 
is easily seen. I am still holding off on flowering though. Haven't had the chance to refill
my CO2. I'm startin to keep my eyes on Monday for the cycle change.


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## Shrubs First (Jan 4, 2011)

Plants lookin good, flowering has begun.


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## medimaker (Jan 8, 2011)

Great thread Shrubs.
Our setups are very similar. I have a sealed room with 2 x 1000w HPS running on a 220V dedicated circuit. Dedicated AC and Co2 identical to yours. Love that simple co2 system. Same can fan too.
Although, I went 1 step further and added vented 6" cool tubes. I completely sealed the line that runs into the sealed room, into the lights and out of the room. Then I added a y splitter to my basement laundry dryer vent. Before the y vent I placed a 6" vortex that sucks air through the whole length of ducting, about 30 feet. I know thats crazy long but it helps make my 14k BTU ac run very little. To smell proof the cool tube ducting in the room so it cant suck smell into the line and then escape when it hits back pressure at the "Y", I used a whole roll of cling wrap to cover and recover and recover all the ducting in the room. All around the lights and cool tubes I used metal ducting tape, and I taped the shit out of it. No smell escapes into that line, hot air simply exhausts out my dryer vent into the backyard. 

The other end of the ducting line starts at the open end of my 600w MH cool tube in the small veg room. So my little 6" vortex sucks cool basement air through an open end of a cool tube, then through the flower room wall, loop through 2 more cool tubes and out the other side of the room. Then goes under my stairs and into the vortex itself, then the Y and outside. That air suction in the veg room cool tube is enough to remove and clone odours, except for the stinkiest of plants. But so far the rest of my house is smell free.

Anyway, the reason for my small book in your thread  
I'm debating on not using my cool tube track for the next few cycles, and letting the dedicated ac do all the work. 

I'm licensed but I don't like the flex ducting running through my basement and a vortex in my laundry room. Looks getto  Plus this setup creates back pressure at the Y splitter which cant be good for the vortex itself nor my dryer.

I'll see what the electricity bill has to say about it. However my AC exhausts in the basement so that hot air might offset my heating bill this winter......cold up here in Canada eh

PS. I switched to 5gal buckets and never looked back.

Awesome grow!!


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## xivex (Jan 8, 2011)

Can't wait to see what happens in the next 8 weeks!!


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## Shrubs First (Jan 9, 2011)

medimaker said:


> Great thread Shrubs.
> Our setups are very similar. I have a sealed room with 2 x 1000w HPS running on a 220V dedicated circuit. Dedicated AC and Co2 identical to yours. Love that simple co2 system. Same can fan too.
> Although, I went 1 step further and added vented 6" cool tubes. I completely sealed the line that runs into the sealed room, into the lights and out of the room. Then I added a y splitter to my basement laundry dryer vent. Before the y vent I placed a 6" vortex that sucks air through the whole length of ducting, about 30 feet. I know thats crazy long but it helps make my 14k BTU ac run very little. To smell proof the cool tube ducting in the room so it cant suck smell into the line and then escape when it hits back pressure at the "Y", I used a whole roll of cling wrap to cover and recover and recover all the ducting in the room. All around the lights and cool tubes I used metal ducting tape, and I taped the shit out of it. No smell escapes into that line, hot air simply exhausts out my dryer vent into the backyard.
> 
> ...


Very nice. What kind of AC do you run? Mini-split? If yes, a 14,000 BTU should be able to easily handle
the load. My 12,000BTU is handling 3x 600 Watts and could definitely handle one more. Although my AC
unit is a 20 SEER rating. It is 96% energy efficient, I received a tax credit for the purchase. If you're using
a different type of AC such as a window unit or ducted hose like single or dual you are only around 50-60%
energy efficient, and the ducted lights will help you keep the costs low. My monthly energy has been around 150
as of late.



xivex said:


> Can't wait to see what happens in the next 8 weeks!!


Yea, they'll be blowin up, couple days in and they are really showing me some growth already.


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## xivex (Jan 9, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> Very nice. What kind of AC do you run? Mini-split? If yes, a 14,000 BTU should be able to easily handle
> the load. My 12,000BTU is handling 3x 600 Watts and could definitely handle one more. Although my AC
> unit is a 20 SEER rating. It is 96% energy efficient, I received a tax credit for the purchase. If you're using
> a different type of AC such as a window unit or ducted hose like single or dual you are only around 50-60%
> ...


I've got a Mitsubishi 9000Btu heat pump (AC and heat) rated at 20 SEER. Brand new as of last spring from Mitsubishi directly..with all the Platinum Enzyme and smell filter crap add-ons on it!  

Keeps all 5 of my 400watt lights cool and the room just comfy!  They are great units...


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## medimaker (Jan 9, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> Very nice. What kind of AC do you run? Mini-split? If yes, a 14,000 BTU should be able to easily handle
> the load. My 12,000BTU is handling 3x 600 Watts and could definitely handle one more. Although my AC
> unit is a 20 SEER rating. It is 96% energy efficient, I received a tax credit for the purchase. If you're using
> a different type of AC such as a window unit or ducted hose like single or dual you are only around 50-60%
> ...


I have a dual hose style. My next house will be fitted with a mini split, for now this monster dual hose does the job. I'm new to sealed room growing, but the results are very impressive when everything is dialed in. I think I'm better to keep the cool tube system running. 

I have some bubba kush, ak-47's and tangerine dreams under 600wMH. Nothing in flower at the moment as I'm topping half my ak's and half the dreams. The remaining of each strain remains unmolested in a head to head to see how it likes to be grown, to top or not to top. I'll try to figure out which pheno to keep and take one clone of it. The rest all go into flower.


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## Shrubs First (Jan 13, 2011)

Blow it up man, sounds like a great project.


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## ptone (Jan 28, 2011)

How are the girls looking?!?


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## Shrubs First (Jan 28, 2011)

ptone said:


> How are the girls looking?!?


I've been so busy with my warehouse operation this has taken a serious back seat.

I'm real sorry to have kept you guys hangin. Pics tomorrow. But they have serious
issues currently.


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## Grow'N'Smoke (Jan 29, 2011)

If I had to put that my plants had serious issues I would probably follow it up with a face like this one  or this one . But I guess if you have a whole warehouse full of bud without issues then it's not too bad.

-GNS


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## Shrubs First (Jan 29, 2011)

Ha for sure. I am definitely feeling that way. But yea, Idk, I'm kinda over it.

Here are some pics. Sorry for delay.







AOG#3






AOG#3 on left. Bruce Banner #5 on right.






Bruce Banner #5






Same order


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## Shrubs First (Jan 29, 2011)

Soon as the drip system is in at the warehouse this will improve a lot. Either that or I have to stop wasting electricity and put my equipment in storage...


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## rastadred22 (Jan 29, 2011)

despite the few visual problems they look good man some look pretty healthy too! u have a good number in there so im sure those def. arent goin to have u lose out on yeild...what do u think it is?


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## Shrubs First (Jan 29, 2011)

rastadred22 said:


> despite the few visual problems they look good man some look pretty healthy too! u have a good number in there so im sure those def. arent goin to have u lose out on yeild...what do u think it is?


I appreciate the encouragement. That definitely helps.

1. I haven't been getting the run-off I'm accustomed to at my homegrow.

2. Not frequent enough watering. With everyday work at the warehouse, coming home to fertilize even
more is very discouraging.

Because of both of these factors, I'm having some plant moisture stress and TDS issues. 

It's tougher than I thought it would be taking care of both gardens.


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## rastadred22 (Jan 29, 2011)

yea man i kno exactly how u feel...wen ever we have a shipment in the greenhouse and i gotta be down there all day i hate to come home and have to work more! but im sure u dont mind as u will have a nice sized harvest outa there despite


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## Shrubs First (Jan 29, 2011)

Maybe I'll switch to soil growing at home so I don't need to mix up hydroponic solutions. That
and i should grab a bigger reservoir so i can mix bigger solutions and actually get some runoff.


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## Someguy15 (Jan 29, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> Maybe I'll switch to soil growing at home so I don't need to mix up hydroponic solutions. That
> and i should grab a bigger reservoir so i can mix bigger solutions and actually get some runoff.


 Or go hydro . I spend 1 hour a week changing my rez and top off once in the middle with water and that's IT. I know your the natural guy and all, but if your just offloading it anyhow... Now if I could just figure out how to not have to wash hydroton and condition RW life would be real ez. Maybe you could do coco in smartpots in a flood table? idk RaiderFan did it with pretty good results...guess u could do organic hydro too but I think we all know what a bitch that is to get right.


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## Shrubs First (Jan 30, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> Or go hydro . I spend 1 hour a week changing my rez and top off once in the middle with water and that's IT. I know your the natural guy and all, but if your just offloading it anyhow... Now if I could just figure out how to not have to wash hydroton and condition RW life would be real ez. Maybe you could do coco in smartpots in a flood table? idk RaiderFan did it with pretty good results...guess u could do organic hydro too but I think we all know what a bitch that is to get right.


I know, my neighbor runs an Ebb+Grow system. It just runs with no effort. 

Only reason I don't like the idea of Ebb + Flo is the movement of salts from the bottom up.
I see so much potential for salt build ups. I am much more inclined to drip systems. Salts
are more readily washed away in drip, rather than possibly being elevated.

Organic hydro? What a mess, that's what coco is for. Idk, we'll see!


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## jesushadafender (Jan 30, 2011)

Build a bigass coco bed bro, thats what Ill be doing next time. Im gonna make like a 4 X 10 bed for both sides of my room and fill them with coco, have a drain for some runoff if you prefer in the bed. Was reading a few posts on the farm about Obsoul33t's coco smart beds that he's made. He will water like once or twice a week and says it cant be simpler. Just a thought, like I said that's what Ill be phasing me room into so I can like leave my house for more than a day lol. Everythings looking great man!


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## Shrubs First (Jan 30, 2011)

jesushadafender said:


> Build a bigass coco bed bro, thats what Ill be doing next time. Im gonna make like a 4 X 10 bed for both sides of my room and fill them with coco, have a drain for some runoff if you prefer in the bed. Was reading a few posts on the farm about Obsoul33t's coco smart beds that he's made. He will water like once or twice a week and says it cant be simpler. Just a thought, like I said that's what Ill be phasing me room into so I can like leave my house for more than a day lol. Everythings looking great man!


I will be moving in a 600Watt LED if I continue the grow, so I'll be doing another reconstruction.

A representative of a company came and gave us a unit to to test. Looks pretty nice. 

So I should be up to 2400 Watts of light shortly.

I'll be moving in a 4x8 tray. With the new room design I should have enough room to store a reservoir
in the room and have an irrigation setup.

That setup you describe is similar to my buddy up in the FC, he is using 4x8 trays filled with coco. Similar watering schedule, once maybe twice a week. He got Smart-Pot to custom make him a huge Smart-Pot liner for each of his 4x8 trays. I haven't been able to take a tour, but I have seen pictures and hope to soon visit.


----------



## Illumination (Feb 8, 2011)

xivex said:


> Dude your setup is so gorgeous, its what I wished my setup was. Stupid knee-wall basement under stairs room... /me kicks room.  I wish I had that room!! I need more room in my room, argghhh!! I'm always bumping my friggin' head on the wall or some shit..lol.
> 
> Seriously, very professional and sterile looking. Very lab-like. Great job. Gorgeous plants!



I can't believe I just noticed and found the house thread Shrub's!!! Well I am here now my friend I was wondering why just today your house grow was never mentioned anymore! Finally looked at your sig (was actually the "safe access" which caught my eye???) Only got this far into reading before I had to write something So please my friend forgive my ol burnt out hippy ass!

Xi you ought to see it in person...definitely the clean lab aspect...biggest thing though is the plants are happy and cheerfully light bathing....just great positive energy you know? And lemme tell you my lil bud here Shrub's knows his shit and is an awesome dude. smart but not arrogant, laid back real and just must be the source of the pos energy witnessed in the growroom... And his weed is *BAD FUCKING ASS!!!* MAYBE HE CAN TELL YOU BUT I WAS SO BLOW'D I CAN'T EVEN REMEMBER WHAT STRAINS WE SMOKED!!!

And Shrub's you tired of the "how come your lights are so high?" comments questions yet?? LOL...take care lil buddy ...gonna give u call sometimes soon

And as always GREAT JOB BRO!!!

Namaste'


----------



## Shrubs First (Feb 8, 2011)

Illumination said:


> I can't believe I just noticed and found the house thread Shrub's!!! Well I am here now my friend I was wondering why just today your house grow was never mentioned anymore! Finally looked at your sig (was actually the "safe access" which caught my eye???) Only got this far into reading before I had to write something So please my friend forgive my ol burnt out hippy ass!
> 
> Xi you ought to see it in person...definitely the clean lab aspect...biggest thing though is the plants are happy and cheerfully light bathing....just great positive energy you know? And lemme tell you my lil bud here Shrub's knows his shit and is an awesome dude. smart but not arrogant, laid back real and just must be the source of the pos energy witnessed in the growroom... And his weed is *BAD FUCKING ASS!!!* MAYBE HE CAN TELL YOU BUT I WAS SO BLOW'D I CAN'T EVEN REMEMBER WHAT STRAINS WE SMOKED!!!
> 
> ...


Ha, what up Lumi, yea bro, if I had a nickle for everytime somone told me my lights
are too far from my plants, not only would I have a shit load of nickles, but I would still
have a ton of weed every harvest..

You were smokin on the Chem Sour Diesel when you were visiting, voted as the Bud of The Month
for the month of January here in Boulder.

More pics soon, unfortunately, theyre not as healthy as when you stopped over. The warehouse has 
taken over my life.


----------



## Illumination (Feb 8, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> Ha, what up Lumi, yea bro, if I had a nickle for everytime somone told me my lights
> are too far from my plants, not only would I have a shit load of nickles, but I would still
> have a ton of weed every harvest..
> 
> ...



I wonder why?? That;s alotsa work for one dude bro...make them unass some more money and get you some real help you know?? LOL...yeah I thought that it was the csd just was so blowed I wasn't sure..I am sure you will be busy as hell for April but I want to see you for sure while there so will be in touch...Any word bout our "Uncle" yet?? lol

I know they aren't up to snuff for you but they still looking scrumptious!! So what's on the menu in April?? Glass Slippers? Really wanna try those you know


Namaste


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## Snafu1236 (Feb 8, 2011)

Shrubs, have you toyed with the idea of just doing a few larger container, organic soil-based plants with an added organic concentrate, so watering is limited? The warehouse you have is nothing short of spectacular, so I can imagine that coming home to take care of another garden is quite wearing. I was just reading the updates of both your warehouse journal and this thread and got to thinking...an organic soil could be awesome for you so you only have to check on things, and water like every 3-5 days, so you could focus on your crown jewel, the warehouse. I dunno, just trying to help ya out.

Thank you for your numerous posts and journals, they are both enlightening and inspiring. Keep up the good work, I'm looking forward to your next posts.


----------



## Shrubs First (Feb 8, 2011)

Snafu1236 said:


> Shrubs, have you toyed with the idea of just doing a few larger container, organic soil-based plants with an added organic concentrate, so watering is limited? The warehouse you have is nothing short of spectacular, so I can imagine that coming home to take care of another garden is quite wearing. I was just reading the updates of both your warehouse journal and this thread and got to thinking...an organic soil could be awesome for you so you only have to check on things, and water like every 3-5 days, so you could focus on your crown jewel, the warehouse. I dunno, just trying to help ya out.
> 
> Thank you for your numerous posts and journals, they are both enlightening and inspiring. Keep up the good work, I'm looking forward to your next posts.


Thats exactly what I was mentioning a few posts ago. It would be so much easier.

I definitely appreciate the affirmation.


----------



## garlictrain (Apr 7, 2011)

ok wow, very nice threads you have here, a real contribution to riu and the colorado mmj scene.  

i am am also an ally to coco, mixing my coir 40/60 with coco husk chunks, with the coco husk chunks already prewashed and inoculated. often times i cut the coco w/ sunshine #4 if watering multiple times per day is desired. other times i use more soil base to water less frequently. 5 gallon pots are standard in my garden from the moment each cut has rooted, smart pots being preferred. 

automated watering with drip tubing is the next step when it comes to watering larger set ups or above average plant numbers. (though i know a many who will never part with their watering wands.) can't wait to see what you come up with for the warehouse drip wise.

i didn't see the specs (sqft) listed for your home grow space? also curious if you make any of your own fertilizers or compost teas, at home or the shop?

keep it up, it's inspiring others!


----------



## Shrubs First (May 29, 2011)

garlictrain said:


> ok wow, very nice threads you have here, a real contribution to riu and the colorado mmj scene.
> 
> i am am also an ally to coco, mixing my coir 40/60 with coco husk chunks, with the coco husk chunks already prewashed and inoculated. often times i cut the coco w/ sunshine #4 if watering multiple times per day is desired. other times i use more soil base to water less frequently. 5 gallon pots are standard in my garden from the moment each cut has rooted, smart pots being preferred.
> 
> ...


Thanks! 

I am having an impossible time moving away from hand watering. (I'm still doing it)

My home grow is in a spare office room of my condo. It's roughly 7'x8'x8'. I have a good amount of space
to work in front of the plants. I'm sure I lose a little light due to the size of the room but it's just so nice.


----------



## Klik339 (Jul 16, 2011)

cant even begin to explain how envious i am of this setup. great work man


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## Shrubs First (Sep 29, 2011)

Klik339 said:


> cant even begin to explain how envious i am of this setup. great work man


Thanks man, I gotta document another grow in here to the fullest. It's a great space and I'm pullin an awesome crop down right now.


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## Illumination (Sep 29, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> Thanks man, I gotta document another grow in here to the fullest. It's a great space and I'm pullin an awesome crop down right now.


Cool you got the personal going eh? Bummed I didn't get to see ya when I was there

Namaste'


----------



## Shrubs First (Nov 1, 2011)

Alrighty, I'm back.

The room has been completely sterilized today. I picked up 20 White Fire OG Kush to work with for this round.
Not going to mess with a multiple strain setup right now. Tomorrow I'm going to pick up a bag of perlite because
I'm running half of my crop in 100% CANNA coco and half in 2/3's coco 1/3 perlite. Seeing if the perlite will lower
my EC and allow me run it a little higher. Got some pics of the setup all cleaned up. New fans new pots new 
everything this time around.

















































Ask away


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## jesushadafender (Nov 1, 2011)

Whitefiya! Cant wait to see what you yield off these ladies bro, should be real solid. If you still want that extra 600 its yours. Lemme know, I will stay tuned


----------



## Illumination (Nov 1, 2011)

Great to see you back on the homefront as well...you logging some impressive percentages at full spectrum my lil bro  Be careful with the "FED" crackdown my friend


Namaste'


----------



## Someguy15 (Nov 2, 2011)

Sweet to see your back. Wish I had some fire genetics like that to work with, gettin a little sick of beans. Nothing like the reliability of a sick clone. I'll be tuned for another awesome show.


----------



## Shrubs First (Nov 2, 2011)

jesushadafender said:


> Whitefiya! Cant wait to see what you yield off these ladies bro, should be real solid. If you still want that extra 600 its yours. Lemme know, I will stay tuned


I probably should have done the extra 600 for this round, but they look pretty perfect situated how they are. 



Illumination said:


> Great to see you back on the homefront as well...you logging some impressive percentages at full spectrum my lil bro  Be careful with the "FED" crackdown my friend
> 
> Namaste'



Yea man, happy to say I'm out of the dispensary so I'm not too worried about it anymore being that this 
as big as it gets for me right now. And thank you, I'm happy to be able to see two strains I grew up on the
top 3 highest strains in the CO. Seeing how Full Spectrum won't be testing for awhile I should be at #1 all-time
for quite some time. Until the state mandates some ability of the dispensary to get their herb the laboratory. 
There is no legal way (besides selling it to them) to get them the herb.




Someguy15 said:


> Sweet to see your back. Wish I had some fire genetics like that to work with, gettin a little sick of beans. Nothing like the reliability of a sick clone. I'll be tuned for another awesome show.


Nice to see some familiars. I'll be around.


Pics of the potting and first fertilizing.


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## Shrubs First (Nov 4, 2011)

The plants took the transplant very well, although I had little bit of fertilizer burn after that first feeding.

EC was 1.15 pH 6.0 Temp 66.5F

I will lower the EC to around .7 next feeding.


----------



## Someguy15 (Nov 4, 2011)

They look healthy, just a hint of tip burn. I found hand watering difficult to control EC, but I was using hydroton & rockwool combo which seems to dry very quickly. Is coco a little better at retaining moisture or do u have to be on top of watering cycles to combat that problem?

Just got a new thread up myself. Take a gander if you got a few mins my man. *SG15's 2kw Flood & Drain Perpetual - PE, NLxS, Sour Kush, PPP*


----------



## Snafu1236 (Nov 4, 2011)

Looking good man. Happy to see youre back. I just started a second thread, a fully organic DJ Short Blueberry run.Bout to hit it in my sig, hit me up I would be delighted if you kept a gander on it.


----------



## Shrubs First (Nov 4, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> They look healthy, just a hint of tip burn. I found hand watering difficult to control EC, but I was using hydroton & rockwool combo which seems to dry very quickly. Is coco a little better at retaining moisture or do u have to be on top of watering cycles to combat that problem?
> 
> Just got a new thread up myself. Take a gander if you got a few mins my man. *SG15's 2kw Flood & Drain Perpetual - PE, NLxS, Sour Kush, PPP*


It's pretty slight, so I'm not too worried. I did the fertilizing on Wednesday evening and those pics are from yesterday.
As of today the burn hasn't progressed and growth looks pretty good.

As far as difficulty controlling EC in coco it is very easy. CANNA coco retains water as if it were soil, I do not water these
but every 3-4 days right now. Until the roots and plants are bumping, then it goes to about every other, once it's consistently
every other I will transplant. If I feel the plants are having a bit of a build up in the coco I can just drop the EC to .1-.5 and 
dilute the medium. 

I'll be over to check the thread shortly.



Snafu1236 said:


> Looking good man. Happy to see youre back. I just started a second thread, a fully organic DJ Short Blueberry run.Bout to hit it in my sig, hit me up I would be delighted if you kept a gander on it.


Thank you, I'll see what's up.


----------



## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 5, 2011)

Subbed. ...


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## Shrubs First (Nov 5, 2011)

My lights haven't been the most convenient things to raise and lower since I built 
this configuration. You can see they are individually hung by chain links. I fixed that 
problem by buying a 1/2" x 72" galvanized steel rod.







Now that my plants are acclimated to these 600 watt lights I can begin lowering them, 
2 feet today, and another 2 feet tomorrow.


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## Someguy15 (Nov 5, 2011)

Might as well have them all on one set of grips. Gotta love those pro-grips I think I have like 10 pairs of them lol What's your target height above the plants? 3' or so?


----------



## Shrubs First (Nov 5, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> Might as well have them all on one set of grips. Gotta love those pro-grips I think I have like 10 pairs of them lol What's your target height above the plants? 3' or so?


yep, once they're all acclimated and asking for it, I'll have the light around the 2.5'-3' mark.


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## Shrubs First (Nov 6, 2011)

Lowered the lights another 14", things look good from my end.



















Fertilized last night. .7 EC, 6.0 pH

The spots on that leaf look like thrip markings. I have been scouring the place and have seen random
spots on other leaves as well. Yet to see an actual pest. Tomorrow I will foliar once again with Organocide.


----------



## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 7, 2011)

Awww man. i fuckin hope you don't have thrips. But everything looks good otherwise. What are you using as a substrate. If its in the thread just point me there. and also towards what you are feeding too.


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## Someguy15 (Nov 7, 2011)

TrynaGroSumShyt said:


> Awww man. i fuckin hope you don't have thrips. But everything looks good otherwise. What are you using as a substrate. If its in the thread just point me there. and also towards what you are feeding too.


 Canna Coco, but I'm not sure what he's feeding with. I got a ? for ya too shrubs, is the canna coco ready to use out of the bag or does it require a soak or rinse?


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## Shrubs First (Nov 7, 2011)

TrynaGroSumShyt said:


> Awww man. i fuckin hope you don't have thrips. But everything looks good otherwise. What are you using as a substrate. If its in the thread just point me there. and also towards what you are feeding too.


Yea it would be unfortunate. But I'm confident I will take care of them. I've had them in the past and
they haven't been too bad of a problem. I'm growing in Canna coco. Running CANNA nutes, Coco A+B
Rhizotonic, Hygrozyme, Cannazyme, Mayan Microzyme, PK 13/14 for flowering. I also randomly add some
Aqua Flores 0-4-4 during flowering when I'm not running PK 13/14 to not lock out the K and Ca from
each other. The Flores also gives a bit of Molybdenum boost.



Someguy15 said:


> Canna Coco, but I'm not sure what he's feeding with. I got a ? for ya too shrubs, is the canna coco ready to use out of the bag or does it require a soak or rinse?


Canna coco is ready out of the bag it's the Canna CoGr you have to prepare.


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## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 8, 2011)

I'm assuming you've grown with other nutes before canna. i've heard only great things of canna and their products. Do you see any noticeable difference in the products?


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## genuity (Nov 8, 2011)

following this.


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## Shrubs First (Nov 8, 2011)

TrynaGroSumShyt said:


> I'm assuming you've grown with other nutes before canna. i've heard only great things of canna and their products. Do you see any noticeable difference in the products?


I started using Botanicare Pure Blend Pro lineup in 2008 while growing in soil.

From there I moved away from soil and began growin in soil-less mixes, with 
those I used Humboldt Master A+B lineup and really liked that. As i began working
with pure coco medium, I continued using Humboldt with good results but noticed
some interesting and consistent deficiencies. I decided to try running Canna nutes
through their media and have had the best results every time I use em. Love the flavor
and the cannabinoid content.


----------



## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 8, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> I started using Botanicare Pure Blend Pro lineup in 2008 while growing in soil.
> 
> From there I moved away from soil and began growin in soil-less mixes, with
> those I used Humboldt Master A+B lineup and really liked that. As i began working
> ...


 i Have switched over to soil-less mixes now recently and was guided towards botanicare. so i picked up a few products tho i'm really liking hydroplex. i know alot of people dont try foxfarm because its cliche' or seems like a con for beginners but im still screwed on them until i find a simpler line up without 200 different products to mix n match. which is my problem matchin em up.


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## Someguy15 (Nov 8, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> I started using Botanicare Pure Blend Pro lineup in 2008 while growing in soil.
> 
> From there I moved away from soil and began growin in soil-less mixes, with
> those I used Humboldt Master A+B lineup and really liked that. As i began working
> ...


 Canna has an attractive product line but I was very off put when I calculate my cost per grow for the boost based on their nutrient calculator. It makes the canna line significantly more expensive than the schedule for H&G which made me lean towards that. So my ? is, are u using the boost, or did u decide it wasn't worth the dough?


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## lostNug (Nov 8, 2011)

Lookin good man.

Get monterey garden spray (spinosad). I had thrips and it got rid of em in a few days. Its a organic bacteria that's harmless to humans and destroys bugs. Got rid of my spider mites also. You can use it even into late flower but I wouldn't recommend it since it could effect taste and smell.

Dilute 2.5ml per gallon of ph water, add lil non scented dishwash soap to help dissolve better. Spray every 3 days and in between those days spray with plain water. Make sure to keep ur humidity in check when foliar spraying to prevent mold. You can also use this stuff to soil drench


----------



## Shrubs First (Nov 8, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> Canna has an attractive product line but I was very off put when I calculate my cost per grow for the boost based on their nutrient calculator. It makes the canna line significantly more expensive than the schedule for H&G which made me lean towards that. So my ? is, are u using the boost, or did u decide it wasn't worth the dough?


I like to use Boost at 10mL/gallon between weeks 3 and weeks 7 (4 weeks total). That usually takes a liter of Boost ($100) if I have any left over I will continue using it but that's my budget for the Boost. It's worth it though. If I was ballin' I would use it week 1 through week 9. It contains a ton of Fulvic acid. The permeation of the casparian strip through the use of Fulvic acid is key in the transport of not only the carbs in the Boost but also the nutrients in the rest of the mix.



lostNug said:


> Lookin good man.
> 
> Get monterey garden spray (spinosad). I had thrips and it got rid of em in a few days. Its a organic bacteria that's harmless to humans and destroys bugs. Got rid of my spider mites also. You can use it even into late flower but I wouldn't recommend it since it could effect taste and smell.
> 
> Dilute 2.5ml per gallon of ph water, add lil non scented dishwash soap to help dissolve better. Spray every 3 days and in between those days spray with plain water. Make sure to keep ur humidity in check when foliar spraying to prevent mold. You can also use this stuff to soil drench


We learned about Spinosad in class. A chemist claims to have discovered it while on vacation in the carribean
or some crazy story. It's bomb though. Don't want to use it more than once per month because of how effective it
is however because if a bug builds a tolerance you have some problems. But it does claim to have a 100% 
mortality rate as long as the bug ingests it. Good tips though.


----------



## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 8, 2011)

What kind of classes. if i may ask?


----------



## Shrubs First (Nov 8, 2011)

TrynaGroSumShyt said:


> What kind of classes. if i may ask?


Was in the College of Agricultural Science up at CSU. Didn't finish.


----------



## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 8, 2011)

cool man. finishing or not i bet you got alot of knowledge. i dont believe a college degree is going to be worth as much in a few years anyway. So uhh you a Tebow fan?


----------



## Someguy15 (Nov 8, 2011)

TrynaGroSumShyt said:


> cool man. finishing or not i bet you got alot of knowledge. i dont believe a college degree is going to be worth as much in a few years anyway. So uhh you a Tebow fan?


 I agree... I got a degree still jobless damn economy...


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## Shrubs First (Nov 8, 2011)

Ha, I feel you. I'm from Minnesota. Big Vikings fan. I'd like to see the Donkies do well but 
I'm not so specific on any players here, especially some god-loving virgin from Gator country


----------



## lostNug (Nov 8, 2011)

That's cool man. I only used it 4 times within a 2 week period and bugs were gone. Haven't needed it since.

I see ur from boulder.

That's where I grew up. My dad was a proffesor at CU. He's a quantam physicist.

Im plannin on moving back out there in the next few years. I miss the mountains so much. Snowboarding is my passion.


I postted a bncha harvest pics in grow thread if u wanna check em out. Links in my sig. Pics are on few last pages. Gonna post more tonight


Im a denver fan by the way, but not much of a teebow fan. He did pretty good this weekend and couple weeks ago when they came back in last 3 min. I went to john elways last game at there 2nd consecutive superbowl. Man that was a great game.


----------



## Shrubs First (Nov 10, 2011)

Wow, THCFarmer.com; where shwag growers unite. There are some serious haters over there. Absolute assholes.


----------



## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 10, 2011)

i concur...


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## Shrubs First (Nov 10, 2011)

Leached the plants pretty heavily yesterday with a .3 EC and tons of Rhizotonic. Today I think I see some improvement.


----------



## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 10, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> Leached the plants pretty heavily yesterday with a .3 EC and tons of Rhizotonic. Today I think I see some improvement.


Was there a problem, or was that just routine?


----------



## Shrubs First (Nov 10, 2011)

TrynaGroSumShyt said:


> Was there a problem, or was that just routine?


Yea, my first feeding was a 1.15 EC, the plants didn't seem to mind it, but they didn't explode like they
usually do from my first feeding. So my 2nd feeding i lowered to .7 EC, but didn't really give any runoff
so I think I just added the .7 to the 1.1 for the most part. Their toxicity began to spread and was showing
in more places than just the margins of the leaves, the leaves began to hook and curl down and were
showing some real toxicity, so I leached with .3 yesterday and gave to the point of some serious run off.
Tomorrow they should really be picking back up and their roots better be exploding.


----------



## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 10, 2011)

ahhh ok i see. im having some small ph issues myself. but this might because. i was doing fine in my old house, but now it ain't working as well. im going to start testing ph through my whole next grow. i remember when i first started growin i used to leach and feed with every problem i saw. do you use any leaching/flushing agents.


----------



## Someguy15 (Nov 10, 2011)

TrynaGroSumShyt said:


> ahhh ok i see. im having some small ph issues myself. but this might because. i was doing fine in my old house, but now it ain't working as well. im going to start testing ph through my whole next grow. i remember when i first started growin i used to leach and feed with every problem i saw. do you use any leaching/flushing agents.


 Those agents are pretty useless IMO, they are typically sugar based (Clearex). Your best off flushing with a very mild nutrient solution. This will actually draw more nutes from the medium then flushing with pure water.

Too bad about the toxicity. That's my gripe with hand watering, I feel like I'm always making stupid decisions looking at the pots like well can't take it out now haha


----------



## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 10, 2011)

Thx, and Ditto on the 2nd part. i hated adjustin ph so much i just gave up on it. the effects weren't that much different. i get leaf curling and some lite nute lockiut. but like i said i plan on using the organization of my first grow with the knowledge i have now.


----------



## Shrubs First (Nov 10, 2011)

Can't add much to that, SG! Pretty spot on.


----------



## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 10, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> Those agents are pretty useless IMO, they are typically sugar based (Clearex). Your best off flushing with a very mild nutrient solution. This will actually draw more nutes from the medium then flushing with pure water.
> 
> Too bad about the toxicity. That's my gripe with hand watering, I feel like I'm always making stupid decisions looking at the pots like well can't take it out now haha





Shrubs First said:


> Can't add much to that, SG! Pretty spot on.


No argument from me. but why a mild nutrient solution rather than plain water? aren't we trying to leach the nutes out?

Here's a group for growers growing qith 600w's most people have more than one like you. there's a lack of good threads around here and i think the best group of growers on riu. i figured since your rockin 3 600's you'd like to check it out. 

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/285620-club-600-a.html


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## Shrubs First (Nov 10, 2011)

In coco leaching with pure water can cause problems by messing up the
natural anion and cation relationship within the coco. Canna recommends never
to leach with pure water and to always have at least some A+B to keep the coco
balanced. This keeps the pH and EC stable in the coco.


----------



## Someguy15 (Nov 10, 2011)

Hey shrubs, I was wondering if you've ever tried the air-pots before? I'm currently using the smart pots in the f&d, but looking at cost, throwing them away each cycle is costing me some big bucks each year. I was thinking of ordering 30 12.5 Liter pots but I just can't seem to find anyone using them, so I'm turning to you lol Think they will work just as effectively? Medium will still be hydroton/rw cubes 50/50. Thanks in advance for any reassurance.


----------



## Shrubs First (Nov 10, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> Hey shrubs, I was wondering if you've ever tried the air-pots before? I'm currently using the smart pots in the f&d, but looking at cost, throwing them away each cycle is costing me some big bucks each year. I was thinking of ordering 30 12.5 Liter pots but I just can't seem to find anyone using them, so I'm turning to you lol Think they will work just as effectively? Medium will still be hydroton/rw cubes 50/50. Thanks in advance for any reassurance.


Bro! You throw em away? I just empty the coco in to trash bags, turn them inside out and
beat the hell out of the remaining coco outside and run em through the laundry with no detergent. 
They come out looking brand new! 

But no, I havent tried air pots, and I was skeptical to smart pots in the beginning so would love to experiment.

I can't believe you've been throwing them away lol. mail em this way!


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## Someguy15 (Nov 10, 2011)

dude, my roots come out lookin like...



Am I suppose to let them dry out or what, because I've tried to get these out with minimal luck. h2o2, and oxyclean in the wash...still too dirty for my liking.


----------



## Shrubs First (Nov 10, 2011)

Holy shit.

Well... Yes, I let mine dry out before I dump. I have roots popping out like fuzz all around, but nothing
like that. That is a fucking root CITY bro.


----------



## anonz (Nov 10, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> Holy shit.
> 
> Well... Yes, I let mine dry out before I dump. I have roots popping out like fuzz all around, but nothing
> like that. That is a fucking root CITY bro.


how much would you say with this process overall this enrichment of the room with c02 speeds up the growth process of the plants?


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## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 10, 2011)

i love my smart pots.


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## Shrubs First (Nov 10, 2011)

anonz said:


> how much would you say with this process overall this enrichment of the room with c02 speeds up the growth process of the plants?


Can't say I'd personally say it speeds up my growth. It certainly has increased my yields.

As long as you keep the levels stable and the entire environment is kept stable the plant is going
to ripen as fast as it is able.


----------



## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 13, 2011)

Thanks to our lil' conversation it influenced me to ph my girls water & nute solution for the first time in years. its been like 3 days and things are looking great.


----------



## Snafu1236 (Nov 13, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> dude, my roots come out lookin like...
> 
> View attachment 1881588
> 
> Am I suppose to let them dry out or what, because I've tried to get these out with minimal luck. h2o2, and oxyclean in the wash...still too dirty for my liking.


Dude, wtf? How do you water...drip system? Explanation needed, stat.


----------



## Someguy15 (Nov 13, 2011)

Snafu1236 said:


> Dude, wtf? How do you water...drip system? Explanation needed, stat.


 Lol, it's in my sig bro. That came outta a Flood & drain table, watered 4x a day. Afgan Kush 8 weeks from 12/12. Was using H&G at the time + all additives according to the chart. Only thing I change is about half str shooting powder, they really pour it on.


----------



## Snafu1236 (Nov 13, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> Lol, it's in my sig bro. That came outta a Flood & drain table, watered 4x a day. Afgan Kush 8 weeks from 12/12. Was using H&G at the time + all additives according to the chart. Only thing I change is about half str shooting powder, they really pour it on.


 Nice man, nice. Thanks for the reply.


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## Someguy15 (Nov 13, 2011)

Question for ya shrubs...my local store says H&G is raising prices about 10 dollars/ea across their product line. I have been pricing out the Canna according to their schedule and the Boost is super expensive. I was thinking about using the entire canna aqua flores line and cutting the boost to half strength and only using it weeks 2-5. So my question is, in your experience is it worth using the boost lower than recommended? Should I just skip the boost and use the rest of the line? Or is it best to stick with H&G if I'm not using the boost?


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## Shrubs First (Nov 13, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> Question for ya shrubs...my local store says H&G is raising prices about 10 dollars/ea across their product line. I have been pricing out the Canna according to their schedule and the Boost is super expensive. I was thinking about using the entire canna aqua flores line and cutting the boost to half strength and only using it weeks 2-5. So my question is, in your experience is it worth using the boost lower than recommended? Should I just skip the boost and use the rest of the line? Or is it best to stick with H&G if I'm not using the boost?


Haha, man that is crazy. Sounds like a bait and switch, they got so many people to switch companies for the better
price and now they raise it. Start out using Boost in small amounts. Definitely worth it.


----------



## Someguy15 (Nov 14, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> Haha, man that is crazy. Sounds like a bait and switch, they got so many people to switch companies for the better
> price and now they raise it. Start out using Boost in small amounts. Definitely worth it.


 Thanks for the insight man. Going to buy the 5L aqua flores set tomorrow. Should be about out of all of my H&G line by the end of this run.


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## Shrubs First (Nov 14, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> Thanks for the insight man. Going to buy the 5L aqua flores set tomorrow. Should be about out of all of my H&G line by the end of this run.


You'll be one of the few switching from H&G to CANNA, considering everyone else is doing
the exact opposite currently. I'm curious to see what your thoughts are.


----------



## Someguy15 (Nov 14, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> You'll be one of the few switching from H&G to CANNA, considering everyone else is doing
> the exact opposite currently. I'm curious to see what your thoughts are.


 I already like their schedule better... highest EC is in week 3 and then a slight taper off, makes more sense to me than the H&G line which just builds and build until the last couple weeks with the shooting powder I'd be at 2.7EC (2.3 nutrient) and I just feel that is way damn high, even with low N.


----------



## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 14, 2011)

So as far as feeding goes. i should be feeding the heaviest at week 3-6. and not 5-End?


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## Someguy15 (Nov 14, 2011)

TrynaGroSumShyt said:


> So as far as feeding goes. i should be feeding the heaviest at week 3-6. and not 5-End?


 Always worked well for me. When are the most significant changes happening on your plant structure wise? I have always been a believer you don't need a ton of nutes (or CO2 for that matter) to mature your plants. I am interested to get shrub's feedback on this, but I know he's typically a less is more kinda guy...and I tend to agree.

I am also referring specifically to flood and drain, I won't try to extrapolate to other styles because I honestly don't have enough experience.


----------



## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 14, 2011)

man, i feed at 100%-125% strenth of nute throughout my whole flowering period. I use 
the fox farm liquid trio, Cha ching, Botanicare hydroplex. throughout the whole flower i use these the only thing that changes is that i stop using Grow Big after week 2. and start using chaching around week 6 as well as gravity. i go thru more nutes than i should, been thinkin i could slow down but dont want growth to stop. and i am in soiless medium.


----------



## Shrubs First (Nov 14, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> Always worked well for me. When are the most significant changes happening on your plant structure wise? I have always been a believer you don't need a ton of nutes (or CO2 for that matter) to mature your plants. I am interested to get shrub's feedback on this, but I know he's typically a less is more kinda guy...and I tend to agree.
> 
> I am also referring specifically to flood and drain, I won't try to extrapolate to other styles because I honestly don't have enough experience.


Speaking strictly for coco.

I agree I like the schedule a lot. Although I'm not as abrupt as Canna recommends. As far as only adding pK13/14 for week three I agree with because I supplement with Aqua Flores B(?) throughout weeks 4, 5 and 6m which is a 0-4-4 and adds some Mo. I like to keep my plants looking as healthy as possible up until I flush. I recently bought a digital refractometer and will be seriously testing my brix levels of my buds and oils.

As far as lowering CO2. I haven't had the ability accurately do so at my home operation. My meter is very basic and is set to keep the PPM between 1300-1500 during the lights on. Not much I can do about it but I don't really suspect it is lowers quality as it has been stated by others. My Full Spectrum tested herb had CO2 up until the end and all came out stellar. Maybe it would have been better without it but that is pure conjecture and unlikely I think.



TrynaGroSumShyt said:


> man, i feed at 100%-125% strenth of nute throughout my whole flowering period. I use
> the fox farm liquid trio, Cha ching, Botanicare hydroplex. throughout the whole flower i use these the only thing that changes is that i stop using Grow Big after week 2. and start using chaching around week 6 as well as gravity. i go thru more nutes than i should, been thinkin i could slow down but dont want growth to stop. and i am in soiless medium.


It's hard to tell someone to change methods, including lowering your fertilizer concentrations if you're not experiencing problems. If you're having solid yields, you're happy with your product and you are staying profitable/sustainable. In my experience building up the fertilizers throughout the entire process I have not had the best growth or yields. I do like the saying "less is more."


----------



## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 14, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> Speaking strictly for coco.
> 
> I agree I like the schedule a lot. Although I'm not as abrupt as Canna recommends. As far as only adding pK13/14 for week three I agree with because I supplement with Aqua Flores B(?) throughout weeks 4, 5 and 6m which is a 0-4-4 and adds some Mo. I like to keep my plants looking as healthy as possible up until I flush. I recently bought a digital refractometer and will be seriously testing my brix levels of my buds and oils.
> 
> ...


 I'm open to the idea of not using full strength nutes all the way through flower. It's costly and nutes aint cheap. i agree with less is more because i don't think a plant can be pushed past a certain point. but i also always figured put more juice in, get more out. i'll try on my next run. i'm planning on doing alot of things different to increase production and efficiency, even considering going vertical.


----------



## Shrubs First (Nov 14, 2011)

Plants are looking great. Pruned em up and took the lowest growth off. 



















Slowly raising the EC. It was .4 today with a pH of 6.0 as usual.


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## Someguy15 (Nov 15, 2011)

Lookin great man. Did u knock out those thrips successfully? They come and go for me, never seem to do too much dmg. I use spinosad on them, about 3 treatments over 2 weeks knocks em dead in their tracks. I prefer to only use it when no flower mass is present though. But I have found hitting them like this in veg almost seems to give them some systemic protection. Not 100% on that, but I have never had plants given this routine in veg end up with the thrips in flower. Dunno why I rambled that off randomly lol, hopefully it'll help some passer-by at least.


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## Shrubs First (Nov 15, 2011)

Thanks I forgot. I heavily foliar sprayed with Organocide once last week after noticing
a stippling pattern similar to that of thrips. Never actually saw a pest but the markings
were pretty clear so better safe than sorry. There are several products out there which 
contain Spinosad, which do you use? Monterey seems to be the most popular. I have a 
bottle of Monterey as well as Einstein Oil chilling on my shelf in case I need to go nuclear.
Otherwise the Organocide is cheap, effective and is basically 100% soy, sesame, and fish
oils. It smells fishy but is awesome. They've never really caused me detrimental problems
either. I always say "at least they're not mites."


----------



## Someguy15 (Nov 15, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> Thanks I forgot. I heavily foliar sprayed with Organocide once last week after noticing
> a stippling pattern similar to that of thrips. Never actually saw a pest but the markings
> were pretty clear so better safe than sorry. There are several products out there which
> contain Spinosad, which do you use? Monterey seems to be the most popular. I have a
> ...


 I've used the 'Bonide' brand 'Colorado Potato Beetle Beater' which contains a 0.5% mixture of spinosyn A and spinosyn D. Only thing my shop had in stock that had spinosad, but seems to be very effective on thrips. They also list it for moths, leaf miners, armyworms, various beetles, leafrollers, even fruit fly suppression. Pretty versatile product.


----------



## Shrubs First (Nov 15, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> I've used the 'Bonide' brand 'Colorado Potato Beetle Beater' which contains a 0.5% mixture of spinosyn A and spinosyn D. Only thing my shop had in stock that had spinosad, but seems to be very effective on thrips. They also list it for moths, leaf miners, armyworms, various beetles, leafrollers, even fruit fly suppression. Pretty versatile product.


.5% Spinosad A & D is the same as Monterey, good to know.


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## Shrubs First (Nov 17, 2011)

The ladies as of today














I've been cultivating the coco after each feeding to keep it from compacting.

Today I did a foliar feeding of my Sonic Bloom solution. It's the bomb. Everything is derived from seaweeds and over 70 complex
amino acids.






Also did some pruning and topping today, thought I'd show off my biology kit.


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## Someguy15 (Nov 17, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> The ladies as of today
> 
> I've been cultivating the coco after each feeding to keep it from compacting.
> 
> ...


 Are u using the CD with the sonic bloom? Lol I have heard about the research of effects of sound on plants. Convinced me enough to stick a boombox in my space and tuned the classical station.


----------



## Shrubs First (Nov 17, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> Are u using the CD with the sonic bloom? Lol I have heard about the research of effects of sound on plants. Convinced me enough to stick a boombox in my space and tuned the classical station.


Yes I am. Sprayin the solution every 5 days and playing the music everyday.


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## Shrubs First (Nov 20, 2011)

Stepped in to the finest warehouse I've been to last night. It was a dream. In Fort Collins
so production had to be stopped but at one point it was a 100% sealed environment clean
room. We're going to be working to seal it back up and set it up as a vegetable/herb garden 
and sell produce to local grocers.


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## Shrubs First (Nov 20, 2011)

Fed my plants today, I'll throw some pics up tonight or tomorrow morning.


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## Snafu1236 (Nov 20, 2011)

That---is pretty awesome.


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## Shrubs First (Nov 21, 2011)

Tomorrow is week 3 day 7 of veg so I decided to turn on the HPS tonight and plan transplanting in to 5 gallons on tuesday.













Average plant is about 12 inches. Shortest being 9, tallest being 14. Topped every one multiple times
really trying to bush these ladies.


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## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 22, 2011)

Snafu1236 said:


> That---is pretty awesome.


i said the same thing as soon as i read/saw it. Good luck with that shrubs


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## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 22, 2011)

Do u ever "fim" or not? any opinions on the technique? i "fim" , usually ill do the top and then when it branches out do it again.


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## Shrubs First (Nov 22, 2011)

TrynaGroSumShyt said:


> Do u ever "fim" or not? any opinions on the technique? i "fim" , usually ill do the top and then when it branches out do it again.



Yea I train the plants in all different ways. Fim, topping, some LST, supercropping. Whatever the situation calls for, I'm really trying to keep my canopy like a table top.


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## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 23, 2011)

understood... i love to see an even canopy. its somehing i never see being perpetual.


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## Someguy15 (Nov 23, 2011)

They're lookin good bro. How tall are you vegging these before flower?


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## Shrubs First (Nov 23, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> They're lookin good bro. How tall are you vegging these before flower?


Thanks, I plan on an average around 18-20 inches. I'd like them to be about 3-4 feet in the end.


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## lamabile85 (Nov 23, 2011)

I love your room. Also, I liked the room you posted in Ft. Collins. How many lights and watts were they running in that setup?


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## Shrubs First (Nov 23, 2011)

lamabile85 said:


> I love your room. Also, I liked the room you posted in Ft. Collins. How many lights and watts were they running in that setup?


Thanks bud.

As for the room in Fo Co. The room pictured is the flowering room, it is equipped with 10,000 watts but
has the capacity, HVAC and power ready to run a 30,000 watt flower room. Basically by replicating the same
setup on either side in the same room. A second AC unit will be installed on the opposite side of the other pictured
between the steel struts on the wall. The Veg room is about 5,000 watts.

We are going to be installing the other 20,000 watts and running a lot of shelving around the sides starting January. 
Small herbs under T5's on the shelves and larger crops under the HIDs.


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## ChristopherHitchens (Nov 23, 2011)

The Ft. Collins Warehouse is dope!


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## Shrubs First (Nov 26, 2011)

Average plant is 15 inches today. I've got a few shoots hitting the 16 inch mark, with a few just short around the 14.

I fed the plants an EC of 1.3, pH 6.0 today.

All in all I'm making a pretty solid canopy and it should get really thick when I flower.







I still haven't transplanted, and the tentative date is now Monday. Which will be week 5 day 1 veg. 

I'll give them a week to grow in to the 5 gallon pots and flip them on december 3rd.


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## rhump11 (Nov 26, 2011)

They look Beautiful! Awesome grow!


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## Shrubs First (Nov 28, 2011)

Thank you.


Tried my first photo stitch on the iPhone today. Came out pretty well.


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## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 28, 2011)

you mean like panorama? if so yea it did great. you did goos connectin em. and the girls look awesome.


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## Shrubs First (Nov 29, 2011)

Got off my ass and transplanted today. Took about 6 hours from start to finish including
watering them in. Fed them a 1.4 EC, pH 6.0


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## TrynaGroSumShyt (Nov 30, 2011)

Those are huge. you are gonna have some monsters. i love smart pots.


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## Shrubs First (Nov 30, 2011)

TrynaGroSumShyt said:


> Those are huge. you are gonna have some monsters. i love smart pots.



Definitely some of the most massive plants I will have flowered at home. 

It begins Monday after they've had a few days to grow in to the pots.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 2, 2011)

Blowin up, they will be over 20 inches tomorrow. Crushing it.







Super healthy as well







There will be so many flower sites! I'm already amazed.


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## Someguy15 (Dec 2, 2011)

Sweet, the fun begins on Monday then huh? Should be packed what u gonna do to support those fine ladies?


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## Shrubs First (Dec 2, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> Sweet, the fun begins on Monday then huh? Should be packed what u gonna do to support those fine ladies?


I have about 100x 5' stakes with clip rings to attach the limbs to the stakes. Goin old school


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## Shrubs First (Dec 5, 2011)

Rawr







21 inches and flowering begins tomorrow


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## Someguy15 (Dec 5, 2011)

Love it man. You ready for 5 footers? lol


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## Shrubs First (Dec 5, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> Love it man. You ready for 5 footers? lol


Hell yes! Bring on the beasts. Going for 80-90 grams per plant. 3.5 - 4.0 lbs


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## Snafu1236 (Dec 5, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> Someguy15 said:
> 
> 
> > Love it man. You ready for 5 footers? lol[/QUOTE
> ...


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## lamabile85 (Dec 6, 2011)

3.5 lbs - 4.0 lbs with only 1800 watts. That's impressive.


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## Someguy15 (Dec 6, 2011)

If anyone can pull it off it's shrubs. I'm shooting for 3 with my 2k but I think a few strains are holding me back yield wise.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 6, 2011)

lamabile85 said:


> 3.5 lbs - 4.0 lbs with only 1800 watts. That's impressive.


Really pushing for that G / watt. 4 lbs would be on the dot.

These WiFi's are super vigorous and if I've had any grow have the potential to give me a gram per watt it's this one.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 7, 2011)

Today they are sittin at 2 feet. Looking gorgeous.







From left to right



















No deficiencies.


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## lamabile85 (Dec 8, 2011)

Your plants look healthy. Great job! I was actually checking out your other thread with the 24,000 watt commercial warehouse. Awesome thread.


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## Snafu1236 (Dec 8, 2011)

Excellent job, the plants are looking fantastic.


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## johny1212 (Dec 8, 2011)

Looks great. I am in


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## Shrubs First (Dec 10, 2011)

Can't even open the door to my grow fully anymore. I was hoping for this.







Wall to wall, packed.


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## johny1212 (Dec 10, 2011)

Looks great! Healthy, happy little buddies. Looking forward to this grow!


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## Someguy15 (Dec 10, 2011)

Awesome look! Man I wanna visit Colorado... my boys cuz lives out there were trying to plan a trip out. Too bad your state doesn't recognize our cards we wanted to check out the dispensories. O well his cuz has his card we'll have to let him do the shopping haha


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## Someguy15 (Dec 13, 2011)

Hey bro I was about to stop at the store in a couple days and I was wondering you opinion on something. As you know I'm switching over to the Canna line, but I'm considering between the Rhizotonic and H&G Root Excelerator. I noticed that roots is about the same concentration based on recommended dosages, but have heard from numerous sources that it is the best root product on the market. Since your nute experienced, I was wondering which product you think would fit best in the Canna lineup? I wouldn't mind the roots excel for my veg area too (just use ionic grow there, cheap 1 part that works great for me) and I think it might be a little bit more cost effective in the end. Thanks a bunch man. -Sg15

-After looking a bit more I think the Rhizo would actually be a bit cheaper ($48 vs $76 per flower cycle). In veg is where the Roots wins as canna rhizo recommends 4x the dose in veg.


----------



## Shrubs First (Dec 13, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> Hey bro I was about to stop at the store in a couple days and I was wondering you opinion on something. As you know I'm switching over to the Canna line, but I'm considering between the Rhizotonic and H&G Root Excelerator. I noticed that roots is about the same concentration based on recommended dosages, but have heard from numerous sources that it is the best root product on the market. Since your nute experienced, I was wondering which product you think would fit best in the Canna lineup? I wouldn't mind the roots excel for my veg area too (just use ionic grow there, cheap 1 part that works great for me) and I think it might be a little bit more cost effective in the end. Thanks a bunch man. -Sg15
> 
> -After looking a bit more I think the Rhizo would actually be a bit cheaper ($48 vs $76 per flower cycle). In veg is where the Roots wins as canna rhizo recommends 4x the dose in veg.


The difference is Roots Excelurator is $75 or more for a 250 mL bottle. Rhizotonic is $65 for a Liter. That's
why I've never bothered doing the math, Roots Excel is a concentrate. And I never really go overboard with the 
Rhizo, 8-10 mL/ gallon and I have bumpin roots Rhizo is a great help for raising pH as well, (although it's an expensive
pH up) it does a great job of balancing it out cause the A+B drop it pretty low, 4.8-5.2. Being that Rhizo is 1/4 of the cost, 
it seems to be roughly even after adjusting for amount used. Have you ever used Humboldt Roots? Seems similar
to Roots Excel although it contains Mycorrhizae as well as Yucca and Quillaja Saponaria (both are cacti) and it is an amazing
root concentrate.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 13, 2011)

It's week 2 day 2 and they're 32 inches and counting.

Interestingly enough, I completely switched the two rear rows with my two front rows of plants. The plants
closest to the wall in back were growing the biggest and fastest, probably because of the reflection off the poly.

Anyway, I did a total mirror image of what it was before. This should help the other plants catch back up and also
it is better because the taller plants are now on the edge with no wall, catching more light that would have escaped.

Also, I took the time to stake these bigger front plants today, I will do the second half tomorrow. It has helped my spacing 
for sure, as I am now able to have my plants slightly closer together.













They received a feeding of 1.6 EC today. 10 mL coco A /B per gallon, 10 mL CANNAzyme / Gal, 8 mL BOOST / Gal, 2 mL Mayan Microzyme / Gal, 1/2 tspoon Oregonism / Gal.

And yes, that is a coconut shell lei from Hawai'i hanging from my lights. I like to bring the spirit of the islands
to my plants anyway I can. =) Aloha


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## Shrubs First (Dec 16, 2011)

36 inch average today, looks like they loved that 1.6 EC a few days ago. I'm gonna back off a little on my next feeding
before I begin giving them their PK additive.

Staked some more plants and used the rest of my stakes, may need to get more but I got the main colas for the most part.







Jungle Fever







Flowers are just beginning to show themselves, they will be ready for PK in a few days.


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## TrynaGroSumShyt (Dec 16, 2011)

Why do you feel the need to back off a little on the nutes?


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## Shrubs First (Dec 16, 2011)

TrynaGroSumShyt said:


> Why do you feel the need to back off a little on the nutes?


Since I haven't been getting run-off in the past 3 feedings or so I have to be very careful with my EC.

I fed 10 mL A+B / gallon last time. Think I'll drop it to 8 for this feeding, then raise it back up to 10
and begin adding my PK. This should max out my my EC at around 1.7 - 1.8.


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## TrynaGroSumShyt (Dec 16, 2011)

is ec as important as ph? and it is different that tds right?


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## Shrubs First (Dec 16, 2011)

TrynaGroSumShyt said:


> is ec as important as ph? and it is different that tds right?


EC stands for electrical conductivity, basically all positively and negatively charged ions (in this case we're
detecting dissolved fertilizer salts) conduct an electrical charge detected by the electrodes on our meters.

TDS is calculated based off EC. There are different scales for TDS and PPM, but EC always remains constant.

Some meters read 500ppm(referred to as tds) as 1.0 EC, some read 700ppm as 1.0 EC, and some are just straight up EC meters.
The EC value given is the constant and is what you are measuring as food for the plants.

EDIT:
You can do the conversion backwards if you have a ppm meter and want to know your EC value, thats what
I have to do. My meter tells me when I turn it on that it is on a .71 scale, basically that means that when my
meter reads 710 ppm I have a 1.0 EC, by doing a little math (1.0 / 710 = .0014), I figure out that all I have to do is take my PPM
on my meter, lets say I have a PPM of 1140 in my solution, I multiply that by .0014 and it gives me 1.59, basically
an EC of 1.6. Thats how I figure out my solution, if you're using a 500 scale meter you'd do your PPM x .002 = EC


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## Someguy15 (Dec 16, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> EC stands for electrical conductivity, basically all positively and negatively charged ions (in this case we're
> detecting dissolved fertilizer salts) conduct an electrical charge detected by the electrodes on our meters.
> 
> TDS is calculated based off EC. There are different scales for TDS and PPM, but EC always remains constant.
> ...


The fact that PPM meters even exist baffles me. Why convert something with a arbitrary (read, never accurate) formula that tries to estimate parts per million based on EC (diff salts, have diff ppms per EC hence inaccuracy) then have 3 scales so people are never sure wtf they are talking about lol Why can't we make it simple and use EC, one language, it's what the meter is actually reading, makes sense to me.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 17, 2011)

Decided to go with a 1.4 EC today, backed it off to 9 mL A+B / gallon.

Next 3-4 days they should finish their stretch and start asking for some PK, a request I shall satisfy. 

Healthy 37 inches today.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 19, 2011)

Been a great couple of days since that last 1.4 feeding. Today I began giving them their
PK additive, since I'm all out of my PK 13/14 from CANNA and I wasn't in the mood to drive
to the hydro store I substituted Ginormous from Humboldt Nutrients, which is a 0-18-16.

10 mL Coco A + B / gallon and I eased them in to the PK additive, starting with only 1 mL / gallon.

I'll pick up the PK 13/14 and and bump it a up a bit over the next few feedings. My final EC was 1.7 today.

























EDIT: They are breaking 40 inches, and some are hitting 41.


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## MEANGREEN69 (Dec 21, 2011)

whats up shrubs the plants are looking great..i see your mini split there, ive been looking into them can you tell me any pros/cons about them? do they make alot of noise/viberate? also whats the size of the room and what size is the mini split? thanks.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 22, 2011)

MEANGREEN69 said:


> whats up shrubs the plants are looking great..i see your mini split there, ive been looking into them can you tell me any pros/cons about them? do they make alot of noise/viberate? also whats the size of the room and what size is the mini split? thanks.


As far as pros, they are the highest efficiency ACs you can use. With SEER (seasonal energy efficiency ratings) of over 95% efficiency. They are extremely quiet. No noise or vibrations. They allow you to run a sealed grow room because there is no air exchange. My room is about 8x10x8 and my AC is a 12,000 btu, I run 1800 watts plus my dehumidifier and I'm sure the AC could handle at least one or two more 600's. 

For cons.. They are expensive, a solid unit will be around $1500.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 22, 2011)

Blowin up. They're all pretty much hittin that four foot mark and they seem to be super stable.


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## MEANGREEN69 (Dec 22, 2011)

thanks for the info man.


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## Someguy15 (Dec 23, 2011)

your on stilts like me shrubs lol. These sativa's are just too tall for their own good inside. Gotta loli them wish I had the sun indoors...or maybe a plasma sulfur the next best thing.


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## Shrubs First (Dec 23, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> your on stilts like me shrubs lol. These sativa's are just too tall for their own good inside. Gotta loli them wish I had the sun indoors...or maybe a plasma sulfur the next best thing.


I still have about 5 inches of space to move my lights up and the stretch is appearing to halt. They grew maybe a half
inch since yesterday where as they were growing 1-2 inches every day before. I'm lovin the canopy I've gotten, might be a little
too bushy horizontally though!


----------



## Illumination (Dec 24, 2011)

happy x-mas bro


----------



## TrynaGroSumShyt (Dec 24, 2011)

Illumination said:


> happy x-mas bro


Ditto!........


----------



## Shrubs First (Dec 24, 2011)

Hey guys, happy holidays for sure. My plants are getting a feast tonight to celebrate the birth of 
one of the most important men, if not the most important, in history. I'm talking of course about
Isaac Newton. Happy celebration.


----------



## TrynaGroSumShyt (Dec 24, 2011)

Happy B-day isaac!


----------



## Illumination (Dec 24, 2011)

HELL YEAH!!! gravity is da shit...math's pretty cool too...lol ...love


----------



## TrynaGroSumShyt (Dec 24, 2011)

i can never figure out how i should use my gravity. and my snow storm is growing.


----------



## Shrubs First (Dec 28, 2011)

Hello,

week 4 day 3 today, just fed em a super diluted solution with an EC of .42 they just look a little over fertilized.

Tallest cola is 49 inches, with the average being around 46. Vertical growth has been halted for the past week or so now.

I was doing quite a bit of shuffling, trying to keep the tallest plants around the borders, especially the edge with no wall,
I keep the tallest there to catch as much light as possible. Now it seems they won't need to move so much.


----------



## Someguy15 (Dec 29, 2011)

Awesome they are really rocking now! Still surprised how well they are standing, what am I missing about the staking? are they clipped with vine clips to the stakes?


----------



## Shrubs First (Dec 29, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> Awesome they are really rocking now! Still surprised how well they are standing, what am I missing about the staking? are they clipped with vine clips to the stakes?


Yea, they are connected using vine clips, most of the larger ones are clipped multiple times up the branch.

The problem this has created for me in the past (only in 3 gallon pots though, not in 5 gallon pots) is that
when my plants start getting thirsty in the later weeks, the tops become heavier than the roots/soil in the pot
and have just completely fallen over before. Will try to prevent this, although the 5 gallon should be heavy enough 
to offset.


----------



## Snafu1236 (Dec 29, 2011)

They seem to be enjoying your care!


----------



## Shrubs First (Dec 31, 2011)

Lookin beautiful today, had to snap a couple.


----------



## Shrubs First (Jan 4, 2012)

Week 5 day 3. Spectacular. I'm not sure I've had herb so frosty at the beginning of week 5 before.


----------



## Shrubs First (Jan 7, 2012)

Enjoy
[video=youtube;ksk5o4BMmJQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksk5o4BMmJQ&amp;feature=BFa&amp;list=UU8LHAxp3mu04 bGeWy9xOE_Q&amp;lf=plcp[/video]


----------



## MEANGREEN69 (Jan 7, 2012)

great looking room thanks for the video. so whats your guess on yield?


----------



## berrykid (Jan 7, 2012)

nice set up bro im subed +rep how long did u vegg srry m8 i didnt read the whole thread


----------



## Boyz N Da Hood (Jan 7, 2012)

Got some nice frosty manLooks real good yo !!


----------



## Shrubs First (Jan 7, 2012)

MEANGREEN69 said:


> great looking room thanks for the video. so whats your guess on yield?


Minimum 3 lbs. I am really eyeing a gram per watt though which would be 4 lbs on the dot.



berrykid said:


> nice set up bro im subed +rep how long did u vegg srry m8 i didnt read the whole thread


Thanks man, glad to have ya. Vegged for about 32 days - 4 1/2 weeks from clone. The first week I got them they were a little stunted.



Boyz N Da Hood said:


> Got some nice frosty manLooks real good yo !!


Hell yea, the WiFi is flame!


----------



## lamabile85 (Jan 8, 2012)

I been checking in on this thread a lot. I like your style of growing. Cool video


----------



## Dank Hands (Jan 8, 2012)

Sick journal bro. May I ask what brand of Carbon Filter that is?


----------



## Shrubs First (Jan 8, 2012)

lamabile85 said:


> I been checking in on this thread a lot. I like your style of growing. Cool video


Thanks bro, I've seen ya around.



Dank Hands said:


> Sick journal bro. May I ask what brand of Carbon Filter that is?


Thanks much. It's your standard Can Filter, it is a Can 50 size which requires 200-400 cfm, my Max Fan 6 inch
has 3 settings from 200-350. It's set down to 200 for veg, 260 for early-mid flower and 350 for heavy flower.


----------



## Shrubs First (Jan 13, 2012)

Hey guys, week 6 day 5.



















Starting to pack on the weight, branches are beginning to lean and I will need a few more stakes on the 
larger stalks I missed.


----------



## MEANGREEN69 (Jan 13, 2012)

their filling in nicely...so are you hand feeding all those bitches or do you have a pump or???


----------



## Shrubs First (Jan 14, 2012)

MEANGREEN69 said:


> their filling in nicely...so are you hand feeding all those bitches or do you have a pump or???


It's the same as it ever was.

Eco Elite 1500 GPH submersible pump with a watering wand. I have it timed out to 15 seconds per gallon.

I mix up 20 gallons for 20 plants. Each plant gets 15 seconds and it is pretty spot on. I have a res that has about 40 
gallons of RO topped off at all times with a 20 gallon res to move water in to and mix nutes and apply... etc.

I let nutes mix for about a half hour and try to feed as soon as the lights come on. Takes 5 minutes to apply with my equipment. =D


----------



## roachclip420 (Jan 14, 2012)

Question...I understand your reason for using 600w bulbs, but since you are using 2 mh and 1 hps have you ever thought about using 400w cmh bulbs?


----------



## Shrubs First (Jan 14, 2012)

roachclip420 said:


> Question...I understand your reason for using 600w bulbs, but since you are using 2 mh and 1 hps have you ever thought about using 400w cmh bulbs?


400w lights just wouldn't put out the light I'm looking for, This is about a 6x8 area I'm covering and I'm actually debating stepping
the middle light up to a 1000W with two 600's on the outside.


----------



## roachclip420 (Jan 14, 2012)

Shrubs First said:


> 400w lights just wouldn't put out the light I'm looking for, This is about a 6x8 area I'm covering and I'm actually debating stepping
> the middle light up to a 1000W with two 600's on the outside.


makes sense...then again what about 5-400w for 2000w? or 6 for 2400w?


----------



## Someguy15 (Jan 14, 2012)

roachclip420 said:


> makes sense...then again what about 5-400w for 2000w? or 6 for 2400w?


That's a lot of magnetic ballasts...and hoods. Doubt it'd be worth the expense, but the light distribution would be awesome.


----------



## Shrubs First (Jan 14, 2012)

roachclip420 said:


> makes sense...then again what about 5-400w for 2000w? or 6 for 2400w?


When growing in smaller spaces it can be economical and more efficient to do as you say, and run higher numbers of
lower wattage bulbs. Although in my case I have more area to cover and the amount of hoods/bulbs/ballasts I would
have to purchase in order to cover the area does not save me money or up my yield. Also, spending the dollar to basically
retrofit my grow room by installing magnetic ballasts when I am a huge advocate of electronic/digital seems pointless.
The light would look good and would be very evenly distributed but it is not worth the trouble.


----------



## Shrubs First (Jan 15, 2012)

A solid nug shot.







And a my new glassware. Stemless Tube w/ honeycomb perc.


----------



## roachclip420 (Jan 16, 2012)

Can only imagine how smooth that thing hits...how much did it run you?


----------



## Snafu1236 (Jan 16, 2012)

Nice piece!!!


----------



## Shrubs First (Jan 16, 2012)

roachclip420 said:


> Can only imagine how smooth that thing hits...how much did it run you?


They were asking over $500 for it but I got it for $395. I really like it. Super clean and as smooth as it gets.


----------



## Someguy15 (Jan 16, 2012)

That's a sick piece! I need to replace my 16 arm Phire my damn cats broke... but the ladies been suckin me dry for cash lol


----------



## berrykid (Jan 16, 2012)

looking nice m8 looks like its gon be a good ending


----------



## Shrubs First (Jan 16, 2012)

Snafu1236 said:


> Nice piece!!!





Someguy15 said:


> That's a sick piece! I need to replace my 16 arm Phire my damn cats broke... but the ladies been suckin me dry for cash lol





berrykid said:


> looking nice m8 looks like its gon be a good ending



Thanks guys, I'm loving the piece for sure. Don't think I can hit another bong without a little disappointment.

Today I couldn't help myself, the nugs just looked so good, and I think everyday will be gettin better and better.

























They are really juicin up.


----------



## roachclip420 (Jan 17, 2012)

Shrubs First said:


> They were asking over $500 for it but I got it for $395. I really like it. Super clean and as smooth as it gets.


nice little pickup

nugs comin on nice and frosty


----------



## lamabile85 (Jan 23, 2012)

What bulbs are you blooming with? I heard you mention that you were going to use SunMasters earlier in the thread. Have you used them before and if so, how did they perform? I am thinking about blooming with these bulbs instead of the Hortilux.


----------



## Shrubs First (Jan 23, 2012)

Sunpulse, actually. They are pulse start metal halides. I have two of them at 4000K, and a HPS in the center to give em that 2700K.

Getting very very close, I'm thinkin by the end of the week?


----------



## Logges (Jan 23, 2012)

bravo man
bravo


----------



## farmerjoe420 (Jan 23, 2012)

nice man real frosty. does the alien og you have come in seed or clone only? that looks like what im looking for LOL. very nice bro


----------



## Shrubs First (Jan 23, 2012)

farmerjoe420 said:


> nice man real frosty. does the alien og you have come in seed or clone only? that looks like what im looking for LOL. very nice bro


I would grab OGRaskal's Alien Fire.


----------



## Snafu1236 (Jan 24, 2012)

How do you acquire OGs genetics? by auction?


----------



## Shrubs First (Jan 24, 2012)

Snafu1236 said:


> How do you acquire OGs genetics? by auction?


Canna Collective has a bunch of OGRaskal's gear right now. That's where my WiFi came from.


----------



## Someguy15 (Jan 24, 2012)

Shrubs First said:


> Canna Collective has a bunch of OGRaskal's gear right now. That's where my WiFi came from.


All outta stock! damn! lol o well says they are set to drop soon. I'll keep checking...


----------



## Snafu1236 (Jan 25, 2012)

Yeah they're sold out. Grabbed some Critical mass from Mr Nice Seeds for next fall.

Been trying to get some Cali Connection Tahoe OG regular gear for a while, always out of stock. That stuff is awesome, I've grown it once before.

I can never seem to get OG Raskal's gear before it sells out. It sells out every time before I can purchase.


----------



## Snafu1236 (Jan 28, 2012)

Hey Shrubs,

I am trying to send you a PM, but your inbox is full. I got a question for you, and feel free to PM me the response if you don't want to answer it here in your thread.

Hey Shrubs,

So recently I am updating my grow room. I am going ahead with a 7' tall, 8's long and 5' deep grow tent, which is an upgrade form my separate dual 4x4 tents.

I will be daisy-chaining 2 600W hydrofarm daystar air-cooled hoods for ventilation/cooling, using a 6" vortex 449 cfm fan.

Normally I used one 600W per tent, linked to a carbon filter to pull smell from tent, cool the light, and exhaust outside the tent.

Now, with two linked together(I know you have alot of experience doing it this way), I am running into some questions.

My question is this:

1. Do you recommend attaching a carbon filter to this setup(2 hoods), or do you think it will be too much load on the fan for such a large tent.(even though the 449cfm can handle an 8x5x7 tent)?

2. Is it more efficient to have the 6" for exhaust only, and have another, smaller fan doing odor control from pulling a carbon filter from within the tent?(this seems like a better option to me)

3. I am going to use the two 600W HPS hortilux eyes, but probably supplement with a few panels or UFOs of LEDs. Currently I have two 90W flowering lighthouse hydro UFO and a 240W blackstart LED panel. Aside from the LED heights, what would you recommend for a proper distance of the two 600W from canopy? Also, how far do you think they should be apart? I figured an equidstance from eachother in relation to the tent, but I would like to hear your input.

4. Any other recommendations or concerns you may have woiuld be appreciiated. Normally I do much smaller scales, but I am doing it in a bigger tenet now becuase it will just be so much more efficient.

Thanks to you for your response! I look forward to hearing from you.

_Snafu


----------



## Someguy15 (Jan 28, 2012)

Snafu1236 said:


> Hey Shrubs,
> 
> I am trying to send you a PM, but your inbox is full. I got a question for you, and feel free to PM me the response if you don't want to answer it here in your thread.
> 
> ...


I can help some. 
1) I am using the same exact fan daisy chaining a carbon filter, 2 thousand watt hoods and a 600w hood. Works fine, although I should add the 600w doesn't run at the same time as the 2x1000w. You lose more CFMs through flex duct, esp sharp angles, than you do through hoods. As long as your filter is larger than the fan rating you should be fine, mine is Phresh rated at 550CFM.

2) 2 fans are better then 1 yes, but that's double the electric draw and double the noise, if those considerations don't matter, dual fans will work better. Also consider if you do this, your exhaust may be too powerful causing your tent sides to be 'sucked in' due to negative pressure...which may require the addition of a intake fan to balance the pressure.

3) I'd go with equidistant, or maybe a touch closer together if you want to increase penetration. As for height, I know shrubs will say 2-3 ft, but I'm more of a 18" kinda guy lol This is really debatable and totally up to you.

4)Not much else except the fact that you might need an intake fan possibly depending on negative pressure in the tent.


----------



## Snafu1236 (Jan 28, 2012)

Awesome...you are helping me solidify my decisions. Shrubs, I know you hate explaining your method for light distance, but I could use a refresher and know that it would help anyone else that may see this thread...


----------



## Shrubs First (Jan 28, 2012)

Snafu1236 said:


> 1. Do you recommend attaching a carbon filter to this setup(2 hoods), or do you think it will be too much load on the fan for such a large tent.(even though the 449cfm can handle an 8x5x7 tent)?
> 
> 2. Is it more efficient to have the 6" for exhaust only, and have another, smaller fan doing odor control from pulling a carbon filter from within the tent?(this seems like a better option to me)
> 
> ...


SG15 hit em all on the head, I'll just add a few words.

1. Your fan should cool the lights no problem. Yes a carbon filter is necessary if you are trying to control smell. My hut stayed very well
concealed as far as smell goes until I opened the zipper.

2. I had separated ducts. One going straight through the lights and one exhausting out the top. If you recall though, in the very beginning
I also had a separate intake coming in direct from outside, this was until I bought a window unit airconditioner and just cooled the room
the hut was sitting in. Basically the room the hut sits in acts as a lung. The hut exhausts heat from the tent and cleaned air through the carbon filter
and the airconditioner cools it before it is taken back in to the tent. I like dedicated ducting.

3. I'd have the two 600's equally spaced over their respective 4'x5' area's and have the 90 watts evenly distributed either between them or around the edges.
I am trying to picture how it will fit together with the different lights, and if you remember from my grow tent I had the two 600's with the T5's on the outsides.

4. Congratulations on stepping up to the larger space, it's a lot of fun. Definitely think about the intake for offsetting your negative pressure. Negative is good, because
it guarantees you will not have air escaping except through the filter, which means no smell. But too much negative pressure stresses the fan and could stress the seams
of your tent over time, weakening the integrity.

For spacing lights, I like to give my plants roughly the same light energy that the sun is estimated to put out. Roughly 10,000 Lumens / square foot. A 600 watt light puts out 90,000 Lumens / foot at a one foot distance. Using the inverse square law, at two feet (twice the distance) it becomes 22,500 (1/4 the strength). At three feet from the bulb the light decreases to roughly 11,250 Lumens. Here is a really report on what happens to the photosystems of the plant when there is too much light. It basically explains that yes, plants in nature experience too much light basically everyday of their life. The sun puts out nearly twice as much light as plants require for photosynthesis. So what do plants do with it? They dissipate it as heat. They are very good at doing this but it does require energy to manage this function which would otherwise be used for other plant processes.

This here I find to be a key statement 

"At low irradiance levels (low light levels) when photosynthetic membranes are in the high-efficiency state (Fig.1), leaves demonstrate an efficiency (i.e. quantum yield) for CO[SUB]2[/SUB] reduction that is close to the theoretical maximum (13). This exceptionally high efficiency is possible only because the amount of light absorbed by the antenna serving the two photosystems is closely balanced. Thus it is inescapable that at high irradiance levels when PSII photoprotective thermal dissipation is engaged, PSI will be absorbing many more photons than it is receiving electrons from PSII." 


They are saying that at low, equal light distribution levels plants absorb the most light and use the maximum CO2 theoretically allowed. In high, unevenly distributed light systems one photosystem will be absorbing higher levels then the other, lowering overall efficiency. 

When I see people sitting with their 600 watt hoods at like 6 inches to a foot above their canopies, and I even see people with 1000 watt hoods doing this, I cringe. People are blasting their plants with 50,000 lumens or more if they were to actually do the math. But there are still many people arguing that more light is always better with no adverse affects as long as you have the temperature under control. I don't care if you have a 72 and 50% humidity at 1 inch from the bulb, it should never be that close. (unless it's fluorescent.)

Matter of fact if you want to see someone rage at me over my light distances just a couple of days ago, check out this thread. The dude gave no scientific evidence to back up his claims, basically directed me to forum grows that backed up his theory that the light always needs to be closer. The truth is, there is more than one path to get to Rome and your grow will definitely take some tweaking and time. No two are the same.


----------



## Snafu1236 (Jan 28, 2012)

Awesome post, Shrubs. Thank you to both sg15 and Shrubs for confirming my future setup.

I just read the whole thread over at reddit...that guy is a moron. 

Photoinhibition is real, and more growers should strive to understand it better.

Much thanks for some solid information here.


----------



## backwood grower (Jan 28, 2012)

Awesome grow man, On your very last statement I have to add this, take a look at some LED grows (not you so much as the neigh sayers) and you will see what super high intensity does to these plants, it will bleach the leaves out when you put the light to close, with HID they seem to burn first but with cool led it bleachs them, people think it looks "cool" but really from my limited knowledge and reading it seems plants do this as a protection, they kill off the over saturated leaves and pull the chlorophyll out of the leaves (no chlorophyll= no Photosynthesis= not production value) and then try to focus energy elsewhere, worst part is this happens 99% of the time on the TOP buds which should be your best buds, so yes i am a firm believer that lights need to be a certain distance to maximize plant efficiency, and to close seems to be far worse for them than too far (just my observation) In my grow I had 2 plants shoot up damn near a foot taller than everything else and had to do some quick moving to prevent over saturation from my light, since the move to a more indirect lighting spot they are already doing better which further proves the point.

sorry that got a little out of hand but yea your grow is awesome cant wait to see the final results, keep up the good work.


----------



## Tunes (Jan 28, 2012)

Great job here


----------



## Shrubs First (Jan 28, 2012)

Thanks guys. I've seen just what you're talking about with an LED grow. Tried explaining this and they
were convinced it was a unique plant deformation. Loved it.


----------



## Shrubs First (Jan 29, 2012)

Chopped today. Here are the pics. Got all twenty on to some clothes hangers and they're hanging just below the lights. 

Room is sealed up and dark with fans on. Temperature set at 70 degrees with my dehumidifier set at 40%. 

Just 8-10 days of drying now!


----------



## Snafu1236 (Jan 29, 2012)

Awesome job man, looks great.


----------



## Bobotrank (Jan 30, 2012)

Siiiiick grows, Shrubs. Sub'd.


----------



## Shrubs First (Jan 31, 2012)

Bobotrank said:


> Siiiiick grows, Shrubs. Sub'd.



Thanks, trimming should begin about a week from today. I'll post some pics then.

Haven't decided on the next round of clones, but it's sure to be a raw beast.


----------



## Someguy15 (Jan 31, 2012)

Shrubs First said:


> Thanks, trimming should begin about a week from today. I'll post some pics then.
> 
> Haven't decided on the next round of clones, but it's sure to be a raw beast.


U got some work ahead of you. Great lookin harvest. Wish I had the space to whole dry the crop but perpetual is always pushing me forward lol


----------



## Snafu1236 (Feb 3, 2012)

Hey Shrubs, OGRascals gear is also over at SowAmazingSeeds.com...very highly priced, but still available there.

I just bought a pack of White Fire OG BX...which I believe is the exact same as you are running here.

Damn feminized seeds(which I don't believe in, but no choice here) set me back a hefty 175. Yikes.

Interested to hear your thoughts on these genetics thus far.

I am happy to have finally acquired some of these elusive genetics


----------



## Shrubs First (Feb 3, 2012)

Snafu1236 said:


> Hey Shrubs, OGRascals gear is also over at SowAmazingSeeds.com...very highly priced, but still available there.
> 
> I just bought a pack of White Fire OG BX...which I believe is the exact same as you are running here.
> 
> ...


That White Fire OG in their pics looks just like mine, in my opinion. Great pick up!

The right pheno will be your star plant. It really shines, and has a killer high to boot!


----------



## Shrubs First (Feb 6, 2012)

Tried a sample today. It's ready for trimmin, and I'll begin tomorrow. 

The flavor is really great, a nice mouth full of sweet OG. My stone came on very
slowly but after about 45 minutes I had pretty much lost my shit. Very heavy stone,
Especially around the eyes. I seemed to get top heavy as well, it felt like my brain weighed 20lbs. Can't say coordination isn't
affected at least a little. Pics tomorrow.


----------



## Someguy15 (Feb 6, 2012)

Shrubs First said:


> Tried a sample today. It's ready for trimmin, and I'll begin tomorrow.
> 
> The flavor is really great, a nice mouth full of sweet OG. My stone came on very
> slowly but after about 45 minutes I had pretty much lost my shit. Very heavy stone,
> ...


Put on eye of the tiger and get those fingers stretched out lol


----------



## Shrubs First (Feb 7, 2012)

The WiFi OG.

A 1.75 gram nug






First plant trimmed, weighed 82 grams


----------



## Someguy15 (Feb 7, 2012)

Shrubs First said:


> The WiFi OG.
> 
> A 1.75 gram nug
> 
> ...


Looks amazing bro... seeing where you flipped these I am def over-veggin... Gonna try the double clone next round, this round I'm stuck trying to bonzi them.


----------



## xivex (Feb 7, 2012)

Looks very tasty mate!  Great job as always.


----------



## Someguy15 (Feb 7, 2012)

xivex said:


> Looks very tasty mate!  Great job as always.


How ya been man?? U got a thread goin around here or just lurkin?


----------



## xivex (Feb 7, 2012)

Someguy15 said:


> How ya been man?? U got a thread goin around here or just lurkin?


Lurking and playing scratch n sniff with my monitor!  Been okay..


----------



## Snafu1236 (Feb 7, 2012)

Awesome job man.


----------



## Bobotrank (Feb 7, 2012)

Well it's snowing in Boulder. . . mennnnntal.



Shrubs First said:


> The WiFi OG.
> 
> A 1.75 gram nug
> 
> ...


----------



## RawBudzski (Feb 7, 2012)

what did you pay to get the mini split installed if you do not mind.. that is all that is holding be back from sealing up & running co2.


----------



## Shrubs First (Feb 7, 2012)

Thanks guys, it's got a killer smell. Very indicative of the OG in there, same with the flavor.

My neighbor has a Nikon D700 with some great macro lenses and we'll be snapping a few
shots soon. And I hope to be running some samples through the lab as well.

RawBudzki - My unit was about $1500 with delivery.


----------



## lamabile85 (Feb 8, 2012)

Cool! I can't wait to see what you yielded


----------



## kriznarf (Feb 10, 2012)

Shrubs First said:


> The WiFi OG.
> 
> A 1.75 gram nug


I have a couple WiFi beans lurking around. I tried to germ 8 of them a while back and ended up with 8 sad little mutants. Was supper bummed considering I lucked out getting the seeds to begin with. Seeing that nug makes me want to try germing those last two beans... Damn Raskal!

Forgot to mention that I'm subbing for sure. Thanks again for all the great info, Shrubs.


----------



## roachclip420 (Mar 25, 2012)

Still gettin those Gavitas?


----------



## Shrubs First (Mar 25, 2012)

roachclip420 said:


> Still gettin those Gavitas?


Startin with one. Gonna swap out the center HPS.


----------



## roachclip420 (Mar 25, 2012)

Nice, when are you starting? What cut you going with this time?


----------



## Kite High (Mar 26, 2012)

RawBudzski said:


> what did you pay to get the mini split installed if you do not mind.. that is all that is holding be back from sealing up & running co2.


1 ton $1199 delivered, designed for GROWROOM applications, and to be self installed...truly a snap...my wife and I installed it and had it running in 6 hours

here's the link...jus sayin http://www.igrowhydro.com/Frostbox_1_Ton_Mini-Split.aspx


----------



## Shrubs First (Mar 26, 2012)

Kite High said:


> 1 ton $1199 delivered, designed for GROWROOM applications, and to be self installed...truly a snap...my wife and I installed it and had it running in 6 hours
> 
> here's the link...jus sayin http://www.igrowhydro.com/Frostbox_1_Ton_Mini-Split.aspx


I see no warranty on this discount unit. I would want a 5 year guarantee, for sure.


----------



## Kite High (Mar 27, 2012)

It is brand new...1 year parts and labor and 5 year compressor through Frostbox which is owned by...you guessed it Sunlight Supply Conglomerate... pretty good deal...your model is no longer available or it is the one I would have purchased...gruinaire correct?


----------



## Shrubs First (Mar 27, 2012)

Kite High said:


> It is brand new...1 year parts and labor and 5 year compressor through Frostbox which is owned by...you guessed it Sunlight Supply Conglomerate... pretty good deal...your model is no longer available or it is the one I would have purchased...gruinaire correct?


Bomb bro, 5 year compressor is where it's at. Should be a solid unit.

But yea, Grunaire is the maker of mine and they did slightly change up their unit selection,
and they are definitely more expensive.


----------



## Shrubs First (May 6, 2012)

Got that Gavita hooked up. Ready to begin my next round. Clones are in, and I'm waitin on bumpin roots.

Crop this time is going to be half Krome's White, and half Pestilence from Inkognyto. Also will have a cut
of the Diablo OG to test out in here. Anyway, look at how small this 1000 Watt Gavita hood is compared
to my 600 watts. It spreads light like nothing I've ever seen before. And is the brightest, SOB I've ever
tried to grow plants with. I'm stoked.

*&#8203;*


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## jesushadafender (May 6, 2012)

Lookin real solid man. Whats the heat like compared to a traditional 1000w unvented HPS? Cant wait to see you rock that Diablo I think thats something Im really gonna play with. Lots of peoples favorite cut of OG actually. Most likely its just an S1 of some other cut of OG (Tahoe, SFV, etc) but still rockin none the less. Lookin good brah!


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## Shrubs First (May 6, 2012)

jesushadafender said:


> Lookin real solid man. Whats the heat like compared to a traditional 1000w unvented HPS? Cant wait to see you rock that Diablo I think thats something Im really gonna play with. Lots of peoples favorite cut of OG actually. Most likely its just an S1 of some other cut of OG (Tahoe, SFV, etc) but still rockin none the less. Lookin good brah!


The AC seems to handle it no problem. It's pretty warm, not going to lie. There's no glass, and Gavita's plan is that the small reflector gets the light out as fast as possible with no wasted time/space. I also believe there is not a very focused hot spot, the light is very well spread.

I stand underneath 24,000 watts for hours a day at work. But coming home the past two days and just being in the same room as one of these gives me a headache after a few minutes. It is astonishingly bright.


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## roachclip420 (May 7, 2012)

I know this is a little off topic, but still has to do with Gavita...Remember that vid you posted about the rep talking about how air cooling causes you to lose lumens? This is not correct. I watched a test with air cooled/non air cooled with 2 different hoods and both times the air cooled put out more lumens. Using pyrex glass actually magnifyed the light aswell. I still got my eyes on a couple of these babies, but it makes no sense why he would blatantly lie like that. Stupid mj consumers buying into bs.


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## Kite High (May 7, 2012)

roachclip420 said:


> I know this is a little off topic, but still has to do with Gavita...Remember that vid you posted about the rep talking about how air cooling causes you to lose lumens? This is not correct. *I watched a test with air cooled/non air cooled with 2 different hoods and both times the air cooled put out more lumens*. Using pyrex glass actually magnifyed the light aswell. I still got my eyes on a couple of these babies, but it makes no sense why he would blatantly lie like that. Stupid mj consumers buying into bs.


link or it is bs


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## Shrubs First (May 7, 2012)

roachclip420 said:


> I know this is a little off topic, but still has to do with Gavita...Remember that vid you posted about the rep talking about how air cooling causes you to lose lumens? This is not correct. I watched a test with air cooled/non air cooled with 2 different hoods and both times the air cooled put out more lumens. Using pyrex glass actually magnifyed the light aswell. I still got my eyes on a couple of these babies, but it makes no sense why he would blatantly lie like that. Stupid mj consumers buying into bs.


I do remember that video. Gavita has been testing in the industry for a very long time. I would
enjoy seeing your video where air cooled hood out performed the non air cooled hood. Everything
he says in the video makes sense. Also 5-8% of light loss through glass is a very agreed upon number 
in the lighting manufacturing industry. And that's with clean glass, so a dirty/dusty glass hood could
dramatically reduce output. The cooling of the bulb does seem to be a more difficult sell, but I can tell
you from direct experience of cooling bulbs. I can stare, literally, stare at all 24 of my thousand watt
bulbs while they are on at the commercial warehouse. I can see the arc tube in the bulb clearly, and how it
is separately defined from the outer bulb casing. I can't even do this with my Gavita when it is set to 600 watts.
It is already too bright. It hurts my eyes and gives me a headache. This is my only personal evidence. 
I'm convinced.

In my opinion, where stupid MJ consumer bought into BS is when they started buying BIGGER hoods. Ocho's, and 
all the other huge hoods only create more distance for the bulb to travel before it is reflected. The claim to "spread"
the light, but really you don't need 4 feet of sheet metal to do that. A tiny reflector simply directing the light down
does the same thing. And depending on the angle of the aluminum, the hot spot should be negligible.

40 years of grow reflector manufacturing and only now do these companies begin producing bigger and bigger hoods. They
didn't make the lights more and more wattage, but they did make these giant hoods twice as expensive.. Gavita is convincing because they are upping efficiency in areas already prevalent in the grow industry, while being extremely market competitive, in terms of price / technological output. A quality 1000 watt digital ballast costs $300, at least. A quality NON oversized reflector (like a daystar AC) costs $150, and a quality bulb costs about $125-$150. That's $550-$600, I spent $600 on the gavita which is the most advanced ballast, a new style of hood, which I find to be of the HIGHEST
efficiency, and the bulb which is a 400V bulb converting to 240V through the ballast. A 400V bulb has the highest frequency
output of any grow bulb, that's a fact. And the higher the frequency, the more similarly the light resembles the sun.

Sit back and enjoy the show, I have a feeling two sunpulse halides and a Gavita Pro is a recipe for some amazing herb.


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## jesushadafender (May 7, 2012)

Dirty glass is a big fucking problem and Ive seen it first hand where I know my yield has suffered by simply being to lazy at the beginning of the round to clean off hoods etc. I agree with the 5-8% with glass I feel thats right in the range of lumen loss. I will say however I have had drastic increase in yield since I switched from Daystars to Blockbusters a year or two ago. I feel maybe this isnt so much of spread from the light but more of a dispersion of the hot spot on the blockbusters as I feel the Daystars have a major hotspot right underneath them, IMO. Magnums though are a bit ridiculous and IMO spread the light too thin. Personally, I wont own a Gavita until they figure out how to deal with the heat in a better manner than simply installing a bigger split unit, etc. In larger rooms you could probably get away with it, like say in a warehouse where some of the heat has some place to dissipate while your flooding it with cold air. Interesting, cant wait to see how it all comes together


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## Shrubs First (May 7, 2012)

jesushadafender said:


> Dirty glass is a big fucking problem and Ive seen it first hand where I know my yield has suffered by simply being to lazy at the beginning of the round to clean off hoods etc. I agree with the 5-8% with glass I feel thats right in the range of lumen loss. I will say however I have had drastic increase in yield since I switched from Daystars to Blockbusters a year or two ago. I feel maybe this isnt so much of spread from the light but more of a dispersion of the hot spot on the blockbusters as I feel the Daystars have a major hotspot right underneath them, IMO. Magnums though are a bit ridiculous and IMO spread the light too thin. Personally, I wont own a Gavita until they figure out how to deal with the heat in a better manner than simply installing a bigger split unit, etc. In larger rooms you could probably get away with it, like say in a warehouse where some of the heat has some place to dissipate while your flooding it with cold air. Interesting, cant wait to see how it all comes together


Haha, i totally hear you. "Too much heat problems? Get a bigger AC!"


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## roachclip420 (May 7, 2012)

Shrubs First said:


> I do remember that video. Gavita has been testing in the industry for a very long time. I would
> enjoy seeing your video where air cooled hood out performed the non air cooled hood. Everything
> he says in the video makes sense. Also 5-8% of light loss through glass is a very agreed upon number
> in the lighting manufacturing industry. And that's with clean glass, so a dirty/dusty glass hood could
> ...


I had a feeling my comment was going to be misunderstand. Wasn't ment to be a trolling remark at all. It wasn't a video but my buddy did it with pics of the readings on another forum that is much smaller, more close knit, and personal(no personal gain from sharing information). I wasn't comparing air cooled hps to gavitas or say glass doesn't remove lumens. Those have already been proven. I was simply saying that measurements taken with the same bulb being air cooled(and lowered because of cooler hood)/not air cooled were not what you would expect. Again I'm not trolling or starting bs. Just find it annoying how companies bend facts and deceive. You can also use a mushroom filter for your intake, that will solve the dusty glass problem.



> This first test will look for the difference in a horizontal 250 watt cmh in an air cooled reflector with tempered glass and without tempered glass.
> 
> The light is leveled off and is positioned 13" above a Hydrofarm Light meter that only tests foot candles. I'm looking at UV meters to order so hopefully by next week I'll run this same test with a UV meter and I'll be doing the fc and UV tests on pyrex glass too.
> 
> ...


Of course this test was down with a 250w cmh so the difference with a 1k would be a bit more noticeable, but still could be fixed with lowering the light. My apologies on getting you started on your reflector rant 

Also OUCH on staring directly into 1k's. Either your bulbs are dimming or your eyes are a lot less sensitive than mine...600s hurt mine


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## Shrubs First (May 8, 2012)

No stress. I didn't think you were trolling. Just a difference of opinions. I don't mean to 
come across as adversarial. 

The problem I see with having to lower the hood with your cooling is the reduction of light spread.

Say you want to overlap your lights and really pound the lumens on the plants. One bulb does not
crush yields. Overlapping light is where you crush the yields. One light casts N photons on X number
of plants, two lights cast 2N photons on X number of plants. I much prefer a raised system than trying
to cram my hoods as close to the plants as possible. I notice much much healthier growth, and not to 
mention a higher tested cannabinoid content.

We change our bulbs every year. So they shouldn't be "dimming" unless it's indeed because of the air-cooling,
which is what I suspect.


An example of proper distance.













Those are using Ochos, which I don't prefer but this guy knows how to use them.


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## roachclip420 (May 8, 2012)

Awesome reply shrubs, after this run I have learned exactly that. I have a 600 in a 4x4 tent and also 2x600 right outside of it and there will definitely be a higher gpw and more frost under the 2x600. It's actually very noticeable. But again this started as me commenting on the wise remark by the Gavita rep...Sorry for the hijack bro lol. 

But since we are on the topic... I'm looking to either run 6x600(two rows of three) or four 1k gavitas(2x2). I'm kind of stuck in the middle because of that "overlap" effect and the fact I can't budge myself to pay top dollar for older tech and less watts. I know you don't have personal experience with the gavita's yet, but I would enjoy hearing your opinion on this if you wouldn't mind.


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## Shrubs First (May 9, 2012)

roachclip420 said:


> Awesome reply shrubs, after this run I have learned exactly that. I have a 600 in a 4x4 tent and also 2x600 right outside of it and there will definitely be a higher gpw and more frost under the 2x600. It's actually very noticeable. But again this started as me commenting on the wise remark by the Gavita rep...Sorry for the hijack bro lol.
> 
> But since we are on the topic... I'm looking to either run 6x600(two rows of three) or four 1k gavitas(2x2). I'm kind of stuck in the middle because of that "overlap" effect and the fact I can't budge myself to pay top dollar for older tech and less watts. I know you don't have personal experience with the gavita's yet, but I would enjoy hearing your opinion on this if you wouldn't mind.




I've a good buddy who had the same dilemma. He went with the 600's but worked his way to the 1000's and
is much happier. Gavita does make 600 watt bulbs in this same style. They also have other styles of
hoods which resemble the more classic look, the triple star is a sick reflector that can reflect a-symmetrically if y you want. Hopefully Jesushadafender will chime in, he knows what's up.


If you can handle the heat, you will pay for the 1000's faster than the 600's. And overlapping 1000's is epic.


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## roachclip420 (May 9, 2012)

Shrubs First said:


> I've a good buddy who had the same dilemma. He went with the 600's but worked his way to the 1000's and
> is much happier. Gavita does make 600 watt bulbs in this same style. They also have other styles of
> hoods which resemble the more classic look, the triple star is a sick reflector that can reflect a-symmetrically if y you want. Hopefully Jesushadafender will chime in, he knows what's up.
> 
> ...


I was about to run with the gavita 600's but they aren't the same as the 1k's. Different bulbs and I believe different ballast tech? Not to mention if I went with gavita I would have to rewire for 240 and I feel like if I was going through the hassle of that I might as well just go all the way with the 1k's lol. My a/c will be upgraded anyways and I only pay .05 per kw so electricity isn't exactly a problem. The more I think about it I think I could spread the 1k's out enough to have roughly the same footprint as 6x600 while keeping an overlapping effect. But still not confident with a decision.


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## marc88101 (May 9, 2012)

I just went through this thread for about an hour and a half, I read every word and looked at every picture...What an Amazing Grow!!!!!! Maybe the best one I have ever seen. Thank you for posting it and bringing it to life, full circle. I felt like I was right there with you in the room. I couldnt wait to see the next page...GREAT JOB!!!!!


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## Bird Gymnastics (May 11, 2012)

roachclip420 said:


> I was about to run with the gavita 600's but they aren't the same as the 1k's. Different bulbs and I believe different ballast tech? Not to mention if I went with gavita I would have to rewire for 240 and I feel like if I was going through the hassle of that I might as well just go all the way with the 1k's lol. My a/c will be upgraded anyways and I only pay .05 per kw so electricity isn't exactly a problem. The more I think about it I think I could spread the 1k's out enough to have roughly the same footprint as 6x600 while keeping an overlapping effect. But still not confident with a decision.


.05 per kw? Where are you man? I'm moving there  that is literally 1/3 of what I pay. Ha ha gavitas are where it's at. I think you nailed it right on the money Shrubs....a gavita plus two mh is going to make a perfect recipe for even better meds


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## jesushadafender (May 11, 2012)

roachclip420 said:


> I was about to run with the gavita 600's but they aren't the same as the 1k's. Different bulbs and I believe different ballast tech? Not to mention if I went with gavita I would have to rewire for 240 and I feel like if I was going through the hassle of that I might as well just go all the way with the 1k's lol. My a/c will be upgraded anyways and I only pay .05 per kw so electricity isn't exactly a problem. The more I think about it I think I could spread the 1k's out enough to have roughly the same footprint as 6x600 while keeping an overlapping effect. But still not confident with a decision.


Should be confident. Go with the 1000s I had a room of like 8 600s and I really like having rooms of 6 1000w instead. Yield is bigger, buds are better, quality is better. I will never ever run 600s again unless its not by choice. Always worth the upgrade. Now thats not to say they dont work. In fact, my largest yield ever was off some Mcfly with mis matching a few 1000s but the rest of the room 600s. I pulled like 13 1/2 ps off of 5800w while I was moving. They even had hardcore heat stress and still turned out fantastic. Overlapping 1000ws is where you get the yield. A single 1000w over the bed will yield, dont get me wrong but when people are talking about hitting the 2p + / 1000w ratio, they definitely have overlapping light help them out. Re wire your shit bro, youll thank yourself later when you can put in a badass split unit or other fun toys that operate on that voltage. I dont know what I would do without a 200 amp panel and 240v going to 2 of my rooms.


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## roachclip420 (May 11, 2012)

Bird Gymnastics said:


> .05 per kw? Where are you man? I'm moving there  that is literally 1/3 of what I pay. Ha ha gavitas are where it's at. I think you nailed it right on the money Shrubs....a gavita plus two mh is going to make a perfect recipe for even better meds


a sample bill from my utilities companies site 




jesushadafender said:


> Should be confident. Go with the 1000s I had a room of like 8 600s and I really like having rooms of 6 1000w instead. Yield is bigger, buds are better, quality is better. I will never ever run 600s again unless its not by choice. Always worth the upgrade. Now thats not to say they dont work. In fact, my largest yield ever was off some Mcfly with mis matching a few 1000s but the rest of the room 600s. I pulled like 13 1/2 ps off of 5800w while I was moving. They even had hardcore heat stress and still turned out fantastic. Overlapping 1000ws is where you get the yield. A single 1000w over the bed will yield, dont get me wrong but when people are talking about hitting the 2p + / 1000w ratio, they definitely have overlapping light help them out. Re wire your shit bro, youll thank yourself later when you can put in a badass split unit or other fun toys that operate on that voltage. I dont know what I would do without a 200 amp panel and 240v going to 2 of my rooms.


Thanks for the reply buddy, this input will put some weight on my decision. Shrubs seems to show a lot of respect towards you so obviously you know your stuff.


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## Kite High (May 11, 2012)

jesushadafender is the GENE man 4 sure

Godplaysarickbass


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## kriznarf (Jul 12, 2012)

Haven't been on RIU in a while. Was hoping there might be some updates here. Hope all is well with the personal operation, Shrubs. Would love to hear some further thoughts on the Gavita as well, since you've had one rocking for a couple months now, I think.


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## SFguy (Jul 13, 2012)

roachclip420 said:


> I was about to run with the gavita 600's but they aren't the same as the 1k's. Different bulbs and I believe different ballast tech? Not to mention if I went with gavita I would have to rewire for 240 and I feel like if I was going through the hassle of that I might as well just go all the way with the 1k's lol. My a/c will be upgraded anyways and I only pay .05 per kw so electricity isn't exactly a problem. The more I think about it I think I could spread the 1k's out enough to have roughly the same footprint as 6x600 while keeping an overlapping effect. But still not confident with a decision.


.05 per kw... fuuuu ck.. thats CHEEEEEEEPP!!! im closer to 30 cents i think if i read my bill right, im on a tierd rating schedule... what are you payin right now if ya dont mind me askin?? can i move in ill pay the whole bill... hahahha


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## SFguy (Jul 13, 2012)

you guy are huge man doin it major big.., I only run a 1k, and 2x600's in the same room 8k btu portable ac and 5kwindow, i veg with a 400, but shut it down for a minute cause i need to re-configure to make a cooler veg tent. but dAM.. my jaw dropped when i saw the hugenormous room with 24k i gotta got to sleep and dream a liil dream.. love it.!!!!!


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## Shrubs First (Jul 18, 2012)

kriznarf said:


> Haven't been on RIU in a while. Was hoping there might be some updates here. Hope all is well with the personal operation, Shrubs. Would love to hear some further thoughts on the Gavita as well, since you've had one rocking for a couple months now, I think.


Got some veggies runnin at home. Every time I've turned on the Gavita they just kinda droop and stress out. Gotta wait til
flowering, it appears. They just don't need that much light in veg apparently. No pics as of late.. but i'll see what I can do 



SFguy said:


> you guy are huge man doin it major big.., I only run a 1k, and 2x600's in the same room 8k btu portable ac and 5kwindow, i veg with a 400, but shut it down for a minute cause i need to re-configure to make a cooler veg tent. but dAM.. my jaw dropped when i saw the hugenormous room with 24k i gotta got to sleep and dream a liil dream.. love it.!!!!!


Ya that place is pretty big, but nothing compared to some.


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## hockey4848 (Aug 2, 2012)

what was your final GPW on your 1800watt grow??


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## Canniman12 (Aug 21, 2012)

hockey4848 said:


> what was your final GPW on your 1800watt grow??


Please do answer this; I read this entire thread and I'm dieing to know. In fact I registered just to say so and you motivated me to stop lurking and quite frankly, inspired me to start growing. I'm curious how this grow turned out and curious about your experience with the Gavita has been.


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## Shrubs First (Aug 22, 2012)

Sorry for delay in response. Last grow of full room of WiFi yielded .8 grams per watt, about 3.2 lbs from (3) 600 watt lights


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## Canniman12 (Aug 23, 2012)

Shrubs First said:


> Sorry for delay in response. Last grow of full room of WiFi yielded .8 grams per watt, about 3.2 lbs from (3) 600 watt lights


Really close to your goal of a g/W. Nice.

How about the Gavita?


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## Shrubs First (Aug 23, 2012)

Canniman12 said:


> Really close to your goal of a g/W. Nice.
> 
> How about the Gavita?


You asked for it. I tore down the grow I had going at home, it was in a spare office I have and I 
had the funds to lease a small warehouse space. Did a pretty serious build out in it. 6,000 watt flower,
all Gavitas.... Here it is _almost_ finished.

Decontamination room: Where we change out of clothes, spray down with alcohol and into chemical suits. 
It has a HEPA and Carbon filter and soon will have a UV light ducted in-line with the Carbon filter. 






Behold the flower room: It will have 6 Gavitas (5 are currently hanging, and only 4 are on.) over 3 trays
with a max of 24 plants in Flower. You can also see the door from the decontamination room across.






Sink and work space:






Looking at the door to the Veg room from flower.






The veg room: It has four 600 watt lights over six 2x4 trays. And space for clones and starters
at the back.







So far it is going great, as of yet we haven't pulled a crop. Plants have been in there for about 3 weeks now.
Although the flowers were vegged for about two months at my house.


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## kamie (Aug 23, 2012)

damn shrubs thats a nice set up. i been debating about getting the gavitas as well. my local store has em for 440 each, but at the same time theyre having a deal on 1k quantum ballast with a 1k digilux bulb for $200. With you gavitas do they produce alot of heat? At the moment i don't have A/C or co2 but i have aircool my hoods. For your veg room is it better using 600's to veg than 1k's? Do you use the 600's to spread out the light? thanks for the update shrubs been wanted to know whats been going on with ya. Are you still working with the commercial warehouse?


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## Shrubs First (Aug 23, 2012)

kamie said:


> damn shrubs thats a nice set up. i been debating about getting the gavitas as well. my local store has em for 440 each, but at the same time theyre having a deal on 1k quantum ballast with a 1k digilux bulb for $200. With you gavitas do they produce alot of heat? At the moment i don't have A/C or co2 but i have aircool my hoods. For your veg room is it better using 600's to veg than 1k's? Do you use the 600's to spread out the light? thanks for the update shrubs been wanted to know whats been going on with ya. Are you still working with the commercial warehouse?


Your local store must have the 600 watts for them to be $440, those are $400 at my local store. And the 1000's were $600 a piece, not including discount.

They produce as much heat as any 1000 watt. Average of 3.4 BTU's of heat per watt, so 3400 BTU's per 1000 watt. We have a 36,000 BTU AC. So it
keeps it perfect temp. No longer with the warehouse... _Again. _ Luckily my my contract had an exit clause and I was able to use it. There are some shady ass people in the world of business. But I got this spot all to me and one investor and we are looking forward to crushing it. Thanks for checkin back.

The key with the Gavitas is that they run at 240V but convert it to 400V for the bulbs. What a higher voltage does
is increase the frequency of light produced, which makes the light have a much higher energy. Light has properties 
of wavelengths, and long wavelengths &#8211; wave physics and particle physics are a part of that. Each color of light travels 
at its own speed, each carrying a certain number of electron volts; there&#8217;s more than one speed of light. Plants want 
all the colors all the time. The relationship between frequency and wavelength are inversely related. The Sun is shining 
with full spectrum light, at a speci&#64257;c frequency. Higher frequency electronics produce light that&#8217;s closer to the Sun, but man 
can&#8217;t perfectly replicate the sun. The Sun shines in space in the Penta and Terra Hertz, but not all that is received on the Earth. 
So we continue to try to replicate it.


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## kamie (Aug 23, 2012)

Glad to hear the new spot is all yours shrubs. This is the one I'm talking about http://www.sunlightsupply.com/p-14414-gavita-pro-1000-de-complete-fixture.aspx. MSRP they are $599.95. My store gets em for $400 and they charge me 10% above cost. I think if i switch to these i'd have to get a mini split. For veg do you think 4 600's spread out would be better than 2 1000's?


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## Shrubs First (Aug 23, 2012)

kamie said:


> Glad to hear the new spot is all yours shrubs. This is the one I'm talking about http://www.sunlightsupply.com/p-14414-gavita-pro-1000-de-complete-fixture.aspx. MSRP they are $599.95. My store gets em for $400 and they charge me 10% above cost. I think if i switch to these i'd have to get a mini split. For veg do you think 4 600's spread out would be better than 2 1000's?


Wow, that's the lock of the century. If you can get a 1000 Pro DE for $440 I'd say jump on it... Mine were 580 after my discount, and 
I am definitely at the highest tier of price drops I can get. You will definitely need AC, however, unless you upgrade and get the ducting
they sell for them, it incapsulates the ballast in, essentially, a PVC pipe and allows you to hook up 8inch ducting to them..
here they are hooked up to the 300 LEP's

And I just did the 600's in veg cause I already had all the hoods, and ballasts, just bought all new Halides for them.. I'd stick with them though.
No need for 1000's in veg, too much light in my opinion.


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## Canniman12 (Aug 23, 2012)

Thanks for the update, Shrubs. Based on your new setup and your explanations, it sounds like the Gavita gets the thumbs up.

Out of curiosity, is that a green CFL I see in the ceiling in the second picture?


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## GreenThumb2k10 (Aug 23, 2012)

Canniman12 said:


> Thanks for the update, Shrubs. Based on your new setup and your explanations, it sounds like the Gavita gets the thumbs up.
> 
> Out of curiosity, is that a green CFL I see in the ceiling in the second picture?


for working in the room when dark i expect


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## Shrubs First (Aug 23, 2012)

Canniman12 said:


> Thanks for the update, Shrubs. Based on your new setup and your explanations, it sounds like the Gavita gets the thumbs up.
> 
> Out of curiosity, is that a green CFL I see in the ceiling in the second picture?


Just love the Gavitas... There's no way you can veg with them though.. Even set down to 600 watts they stress the plants in Veg.
Once I flipped em into flowering they perked right up.



GreenThumb2k10 said:


> for working in the room when dark i expect


On the money, thanks a lot bro.


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## Kite High (Aug 25, 2012)

nice...pm'ed you


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## Shrubs First (Oct 27, 2012)

Thought I'd throw out an update. Still alive and kickin. Warehouse is crushin.

Week 2 day 1 flowering.






Mamba X Double Underdawg






White Fire






Veg room bumpin


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## Shrubs First (Nov 6, 2012)

Week 4 Day 1













White Fire OG






Mamba x Double Underdawg


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## AudiA6Driver (Nov 22, 2012)

i havent stopped by in ages, glad to see your still rockin shit proper!!! Good work man!! Very clean and organized setup by the looks of it.


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## Snafu1236 (Dec 26, 2012)

How you doing bud?


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## Shrubs First (Jan 19, 2013)

Hey bro! Happy late holidays. I'm doin great, that last crop pulled down just over 10 lbs. So ended at about .8 GPW from the Gavitas
with NO CO2 injection. I'll get pics up soon, sorry for delay.


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## TrynaGroSumShyt (Jan 19, 2013)

How has leglity affected you guys?


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## Kite High (Jan 19, 2013)

Shrubs First said:


> Hey bro! Happy late holidays. I'm doin great, that last crop pulled down just over 10 lbs. So ended at about .8 GPW from the Gavitas
> with NO CO2 injection. I'll get pics up soon, sorry for delay.


why you stopped co2?


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## Snafu1236 (Jan 19, 2013)

Shrubs! So good to see you still kickin' around here. 

Last time I heard from you, you were just beginning to play around with the Gavitas...nice to see you've expanded your repertoire in this area

I recently came back from a long hiatus of RIU, but am back at it. Check the link in my sig, still all organic soil based but am now fueling up the LED route....LEDs have come a long way in the past two years, and am now confident in giving them majority rule in my garden.

Still in Colorado? Would love to catch an update from you in a PM, hit me up!


-Snafu


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## Bird Gymnastics (Jun 16, 2013)

Hope all is well Shrubs, I miss reading your posts once a week. :-/ because of you, I have made the switch to gavita. Currently using 6 600w in co2 enriched room. Waiting for Gavita to be able to ship me the DE instead of the SE models. Very excited to start running all 1000w instead of of 600. I will make a thread and send you a link if you are ever on again. Take care and hope everything is great!


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