# This LED Light claiming 210w draw but 1000w equivilent??



## gubblebum (May 8, 2016)

Hollandstar is the one im looking at, is this for real? Or some kind of mistake? I'm debating if I should go LED so I can get more light without drawing suspicion... Or just stick with simple HID

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HollandStar-1000W-LED-Grow-Light-Full-Band-Flowering-Hydroponic-Plant-Grow-Lamp-/121934212214


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## 420producer (May 8, 2016)

gubblebum said:


> Hollandstar is the one im looking at, is this for real? Or some kind of mistake? I'm debating if I should go LED so I can get more light without drawing suspicion... Or just stick with simple HID
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HollandStar-1000W-LED-Grow-Light-Full-Band-Flowering-Hydroponic-Plant-Grow-Lamp-/121934212214


here my question on that led. if its got 100 diode and they 2 five watts at each one .then why only 240 watts . is it running at only 24% . this is where . the led over hid gets confusing . i do like the design. but will you get the same .results.. im ready to step over, but then i see these types of stats . and it gets me wondering .. anyways good luck on your grow.


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## chuck estevez (May 8, 2016)

420producer said:


> here my question on that led. if its got 100 diode and they 2 five watts at each one .then why only 240 watts . is it running at only 24% . this is where . the led over hid gets confusing . i do like the design. *but will you get the same .results.. *im ready to step over, but then i see these types of stats . and it gets me wondering .. anyways good luck on your grow.


you WILL NOT, cobs can grow lots of weed, but HID still kicks its ass in size and quality. LED fanboys like to think they can compete with HIDS best, but they ALL talk out their asses and can't produce a decent picture of some finished bud.


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## ttystikk (May 9, 2016)

No. Fucking. Way.

Just another blurple Mars knockoff. 

Believe me when I tell you I know about what's coming in LED, and that's straight bullshit designed to separate the unwary from their money.

You're on RIU, bro; some of the best lighting designers in plant cultivation are right here. Come on over to the LED section and we'll be happy to help you bone up on the newest tech and how to use it to best advantage!


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## 420producer (May 9, 2016)

for sure. and @ chuck this day 32 of flower. 1000watts hps 4x4 space avg temp 77 rh. 40% lights on 73 and Rh 49% off


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## gubblebum (May 9, 2016)

Ah sorry didnt realize there was an LED section! Looking through it now! I'd much prefer to grow using HID but, I'd say I'm safely limited to around 2000w of lights in my 2 bedroom apartment so I'm thinking how I can get more yield without raising suspicion on electricity usage! 

So I'm thinking

HID Vertical grow SOG or Horizontal and LED lights if they allow you say get close to double output per watt. My worries about a vertical SOG is the first grow or 2 I wont be sure about spacing and will get less yield than a traditional SOG.


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## EarthBow (May 9, 2016)

No, 210 watts won't give you the output of 1,000 watts.

However, if LEDs are 60% efficient and HID is 30% efficient, you will still be putting out more light per watt with LEDs and wasting more of your energy as heat with HIDs.

Two other factors come into play...

LEDs usually concentrate their light into the red and blue parts of the spectrum, and these parts of the spectrum are used more effectively by plants. HID lights "waste" some of their power by putting light into yellow/orange/green parts of the spectrum, and plants aren't good at using these colors of light.

LEDs are more directional. HID fixtures output light in every direction. The reflectors aren't 100% effective, so some of this light is lost. Some of this reflected light hits the bulb again, and is lost. Also, the reflected light has to travel farther, so loses intensity.

Anyway, I would guess that a 210 watt LED could put out as much usable light as a 600 watt HID, but would fall short of a 1,000 watt HID.


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## gubblebum (May 10, 2016)

Ok, well cheers for the info guys! So conflicting though reading up about LED's. Seems some people swear by them and others are adamant they will not give you results as good as HID!


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## ttystikk (May 10, 2016)

My 225W modules are doing as well as 600W HPS in veg. Elsewhere in veg, 315W CMH lights also replaced 600W HPS to great effect, with attendant savings in power and cooling costs.


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## chuck estevez (May 10, 2016)

gubblebum said:


> Ok, well cheers for the info guys! So conflicting though reading up about LED's. Seems some people swear by them and others are adamant they will not give you results as good as HID!


go look at ALL the LED grow pics, you will notice a common look and theme to their bud, it usually will be fluffy or really small.Not very many pics of finnished dried led grown bud. LED guys will tell you all kinds of bullshit. CAN THEY GROW WEED? YES, will they grow more than hps watt for watt? yes, will they grow better than hps as far as bag appeal/size and density? NO 
It comes down to your application, if your growing lots of weed for money, stick with hps, if your growing a couple plants in a closet,LED is probably a better choice.


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## morgwar (May 17, 2016)

Sorry man check out mine. I don't have a great camera but I've got 4zips and off 1 plant (after one went male)and two cheap Apollo 400s , those colas were dense and sticky!
https://www.rollitup.org/t/first-legitimate-grow-ams-nyc-turbo-diesel-ak47-led-flouro.896464/#post-12549388


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## Ecosunlite CREE LED (May 18, 2016)

Easy to check out the power .


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## Ecosunlite CREE LED (May 18, 2016)




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## Ecosunlite CREE LED (May 18, 2016)

So far , we have one led which is not claiming equal to 1000W HPS ,HID , Ours works equal to 1000W HPS. HID .http://www.ecosunlite.com/e_productshow/?56-ESL-CREE-CX-COB-LED-6-56.html


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## testiclees (May 18, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> go look at ALL the LED grow pics, you will notice a common look and theme to their bud, it usually will be fluffy or really small.Not very many pics of finnished dried led grown bud. LED guys will tell you all kinds of bullshit. CAN THEY GROW WEED? YES, will they grow more than hps watt for watt? yes, will they grow better than hps as far as bag appeal/size and density? NO
> It comes down to your application, if your growing lots of weed for money, stick with hps, if your growing a couple plants in a closet,LED is probably a better choice.


Chuck is a tiresome luddite. He has zero experience with led. And he is the guy pulling the toot toot on the hooterville cannonball as the levitating train flashes by at 10x the speed.


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## ttystikk (May 18, 2016)

By comparison to HID, the product I've grown under CXB3590 3500K @54W was denser, frostier, smelled better, looked better, stonier....

...and GONE!

In addition, I pulled my first 2lb plant under COB LED, first run with them; that never happened in years of running the same strains in the same RDWC setup with the same trellis panels.

You may draw your own conclusions.

EDIT: I neglected to mention that not only was the growing style and surface area held constant between the two lighting sources, but they pulled the exact same 5400W.


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> By comparison to HID, the product I've grown under CXB3590 3500K @54W was denser, frostier, smelled better, looked better, stonier....
> 
> ...and GONE!
> 
> ...


let's see some pics of the finished product.


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## ttystikk (May 18, 2016)

Just another COB story;


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## Phatlewtz (May 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Just another COB story;
> View attachment 3684803 View attachment 3684804


Very nice homie! Yeah them cob stories sure are sad


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

why is it so hard for you guys to take a pic of the bud after it is dried and ready to be smoked, I want to see the BAG APPEAL. it seems to be the great ghost of pictures for some reason. HMMMMM???


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## SSGrower (May 18, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> why is it so hard for you guys to take a pic of the bud after it is dried and ready to be smoked, I want to see the BAG APPEAL. it seems to be the great ghost of pictures for some reason. HMMMMM???


Who has time or desire to do this before loading one up?


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

SSGrower said:


> Who has time or desire to do this before loading one up?


they have plenty of time to take the pics of it growing, or zoom up close. but they always fail to take one when it's ready, and there is a reason.
and the reason isn't time.lol


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

led growers


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## Olive Drab Green (May 18, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> led growers


Fuuuuuuuck you..


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Fuuuuuuuck you..


truth hurts, awww


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## Olive Drab Green (May 18, 2016)

I was pretty happy with 3.8 ounces from a single plant, but it does come short, yield-wise in comparison to HID, not necessarily quality.


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> I was pretty happy with 3.8 ounces from a single plant, but it does come short, yield-wise in comparison to HID, not necessarily quality.


i'll say it again
led, 10 ounces that sell for 100-125 a zip
hid 8 ounces that sell for 200 plus a zip and fly out the door.


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## Olive Drab Green (May 18, 2016)

I'll agree to disagree. I got rid of some of the best weed my friend who has a lot of other friends has ever smoked. Only 2 snobs said it wasn't their thing. I don't sell, though. That was a gift. The only issue was yield, and it was a little premature.


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## radrolley (May 18, 2016)

LEDs are actually great in the warmer climates. I never used the COBs but some of these other newer ones have very promising results. I use both 600 hps and KIND LEDs. In cold places like where I am, the HPS is very practical because the heat will greatly save on your heating bill. If you live far enough south growing can be hell with HIDs and a lot of people go outdoor for the summer. Personally I hate outdoor grows. I like LEDs in the summertime. Run less AC and inline fans. The good ones are expensive but they do work awesome. Much better than I thought they would.


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## SSGrower (May 18, 2016)

Your ranting is exactly why it is not worth anyone's time to appease you. Try doing anything close to what leds can do in a confined space with an excited gas bulb, besides once they are illegal you'll be begging for advice on leds, get ahead of the game now and combine them into your routine and the advantages should be apparent as soon as you turn it on.....

But then again this was a waste of my time bc you have no interist in keeping an open mind.

I like 100W incandescents in my garage because of heat but I can't buy them anywhere, so now I need to find another option and admittedly an led is not it.


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

SSGrower said:


> Your ranting is exactly why it is not worth anyone's time to appease you. Try doing anything close to what leds can do in a confined space with an excited gas bulb, besides once they are illegal you'll be begging for advice on leds, get ahead of the game now and combine them into your routine and the advantages should be apparent as soon as you turn it on.....
> 
> But then again this was a waste of my time bc you have no interist in keeping an open mind.
> 
> I like 100W incandescents in my garage because of heat but I can't buy them anywhere, so now I need to find another option and admittedly an led is not it.


when the ACTUAL horticulture industry starts using them, Then I might take a look, But I see exactly what is going on now and I call it as I see it, sorry if no one likes or wants to hear the truth, but it is what it is.


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## Olive Drab Green (May 18, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> when the ACTUAL horticulture industry starts using them, Then I might take a look, But I see exactly what is going on now and I call it as I see it, sorry if no one likes or wants to hear the truth, but it is what it is.


..They do. Are you serious? LEDs are definitely used by legitimate growing businesses. Especially because of the energy draw of HIDs, marijuana businesses are "going green."


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> ..They do. Are you serious? LEDs are definitely used by legitimate growing businesses. Especially because if the energy draw if HIDs, marijuana businesses are "going green."


I'm talking about sunlight supply, hydrofarm, they sell what the industry is hot on and they QUIT selling LEDS. BWGS sells KIND and well, I don't need to say anything else bout that.


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

as a matter of fact,let me know when nanolux, or hortilux or any other of those type companies start selling leds.


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## testiclees (May 18, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> I'm talking about sunlight supply, hydrofarm, they sell what the industry is hot on and they QUIT selling LEDS. BWGS sells KIND and well, I don't need to say anything else bout that.


Chuck you're a widely recognized idiot. Your words are laughed at, discarded, mocked etc have some dignity and STFU

"as a matter of fact" oh thats rich. Your every post is a feather in your hat of clown turds.


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

testiclees said:


> Chuck you're a widely recognized idiot. Your words are laughed at, discarded, mocked etc have some dignity and STFU


By who, YOU? NUTSACK? STFU nutsack, everyone is laughing at you and how mad you are right now.


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

it's especially funny, cause you used to like me and tell me I grew dank,BEFORE I told you the truth about your shitty lights, BWAHAHAHA!!!


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## testiclees (May 18, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> By who, YOU? NUTSACK? STFU nutsack, everyone is laughing at you and how mad you are right now.


dude medicate. you are ranting like a straight up psycho bitch

you might grow dank i wouldnt doubt it...nearly everyone here does. the problem is you are like juvenile half wit. You rant about shit that I suppose you are jealous of???

damn youre upset ! Easy baby...start by not staring at my gear


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

says the guy with the bright red face. It's ok nutsack, I get it, your mad.and you should be.


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## Olive Drab Green (May 18, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> I'm talking about sunlight supply, hydrofarm, they sell what the industry is hot on and they QUIT selling LEDS. BWGS sells KIND and well, I don't need to say anything else bout that.


What does that matter? We are talking the CannaBiz in specific. And, yeah, Kinds... Eh.. I use BlackStars. Here's what I got my first grow, and keep in mind I harvested a bit early. I mistook springtails for root aphids:


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## SSGrower (May 18, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> I'm talking about sunlight supply, hydrofarm, they sell what the industry is hot on and they QUIT selling LEDS. BWGS sells KIND and well, I don't need to say anything else bout that.


Same reason you are now seeing calories posted next to you combo meal at mickey d's. They ignored cultural desires for healthier eating and are beginning to feel the impact to the bottom line. Excited gas bulbs will go the way of the 100W incandescents and these companies will fall in line only when it required by regulation or is fiscally benificial to them, and have very little concern for what bennifites you so long as you content to purchase the product.

Hybrid cars and electric cars, solar pannels, alt. energy, heat pumps......the list of good thing taking an inordinate amount of time to reach market only because consumers are not speaking with their wallets is very long.


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Clearly, if people are banking on/investing in a technology before they put it out there, there's something to it. And, my plant, premature or not, came out pretty frosty and extremely smooth and tasty.


I am not saying they are not the future, i am saying they are not now, and the people claiming they can compare to a 1000 watt hps with 350 watts of led are full of shit. thats all
you guys tried to feed people on blurples and those flopped, get it?


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## Olive Drab Green (May 18, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> I am not saying they are not the future, i am saying they are not now, and the people claiming they can compare to a 1000 watt hps with 350 watts of led are full of shit. thats all


I said from the beginning, at this stage? Yield, no; quality, yes. Of course 350w LEDs would not yield as much as a 1kW HID.


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> I said from the beginning, at this stage? Yield, no; quality, yes. Of course 350w LEDs would not yield as much as a 1kW HID.


that's what started it all, people claiming HPS killer and my 500 watts out grows 1000 hps. just be honest, watt for watt, led grows more, but HPS stills grows better bigger quality buds and that is what matters to me.


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## Olive Drab Green (May 18, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> that's what started it all, people claiming HPS killer and my 500 watts out grows 1000 hps. just be honest, watt for watt, led grows more, but HPS stills grows better bigger quality buds and that is what matters to me.


See, and I think it's the opposite; that quality-wise, they're comparable. But yield is a little less, by like, 3/5-3/4.


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> See, and I think it's the opposite; that quality-wise, they're comparable. But yield is a little less, by like, 3/5-3/4.


that why I ask and keep asking for a solid pic of some top shelf bud when it's ready to smoke and I have yet to see 1. Sorry, not a personal insult to you, but your pic is far from top shelf, I couldn't give that away.


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## Olive Drab Green (May 18, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> that why I ask and keep asking for a solid pic of some top shelf bud when it's ready to smoke and I have yet to see 1. Sorry, not a personal insult to you, but your pic is far from top shelf, I couldn't give that away.


Your opinion, I suppose. My shit saved a friend from eviction.


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Your opinion, I suppose.


I suppose


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## Olive Drab Green (May 18, 2016)

Very nice. But your good bud doesn't make my bud not headies-quality. My only issue was my two-week-early premature harvest.


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Very nice. But your good bud doesn't make my bud not headies-quality. My only issue was my two-week-early premature harvest.


I know, I said I didn't mean anything by it. I am looking at this from a customers perspective and I need "bag appeal" I want my bud to sell it's self and that is what I get with DE HPS lighting, plus I am clearing 2 Lbs a light.


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## ttystikk (May 18, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> they have plenty of time to take the pics of it growing, or zoom up close. but they always fail to take one when it's ready, and there is a reason.
> and the reason isn't time.lol


For once, you're correct;

In this case, the reason is DEMAND, LOL


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## Olive Drab Green (May 18, 2016)

Fair enough, man. I'm a medical patient. So, different strokes.


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> For once, you're correct;
> 
> In this case, the reason is DEMAND, LOL


keep telling yourself that!!


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## chuck estevez (May 18, 2016)

@ttystikk , how come hortilux isn't doing bright white cobs?


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## morgwar (May 18, 2016)

"Bag Appeal" lol my wife gave some of my finished stuff to a card carrying coworker and the old hippy said it looked home grown and artisanal, smoked tasted like iced tea and the happiest buzz he ever had. I spent very little effort to trim and only had cured for 3weeks.
I'm new at this and never grew with HPS or MH but this elitist perfect beauty pagent bud crap will die out once Phillip morris starts pumping out its weederettes by the billions.
And with even the lowest prices in the country your not going to find a "125.00 " bag anywhere, even full of seeds and smelling like gasoline. (God I miss those days) on top of that consumables, wax and shatter seem to be the new craze so "pretty bud" is pointless.
I'm looking at goregeouse better than dispensary pics in this thread and you all are sneering at it like the one chubby chick at a skinny bitch convention.
Do your best with what you've got. And if someone does it better with different equipment for the same price take it or leave it.


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## dbkick (May 18, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> @ttystikk , how come hortilux isn't doing bright white cobs?


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## bravedave (May 18, 2016)

If i wanted to get 24 zips in 100 days with a bubblegum kush...in a 4x4 room what would my approx. $$ outlay be on an LED setup.


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## ttystikk (May 18, 2016)

morgwar said:


> "Bag Appeal" lol my wife gave some of my finished stuff to a card carrying coworker and the old hippy said it looked home grown and artisanal, smoked tasted like iced tea and the happiest buzz he ever had. I spent very little effort to trim and only had cured for 3weeks.
> I'm new at this and never grew with HPS or MH but this elitist perfect beauty pagent bud crap will die out once Phillip morris starts pumping out its weederettes by the billions.
> And with even the lowest prices in the country your not going to find a "125.00 " bag anywhere, even full of seeds and smelling like gasoline. (God I miss those days) on top of that consumables, wax and shatter seem to be the new craze so "pretty bud" is pointless.
> I'm looking at goregeouse better than dispensary pics in this thread and you all are sneering at it like the one chubby chick at a skinny bitch convention.
> Do your best with what you've got. And if someone does it better with different equipment for the same price take it or leave it.


I've seem some fire zips for 125 right here in Colorado. Prices are coming down and while it's true that eventually there will be a basic grade, it's especially true of Cannabis that better grades will find a niche. Why? Well- alcohol is alcohol and nicotine is nicotine- but weed really does come in infinite variety!


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## ttystikk (May 18, 2016)

Tell me tell me what does it say?!?!


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## bravedave (May 19, 2016)

bravedave said:


> If i wanted to get 24 zips in 100 days with a bubblegum kush...in a 4x4 room what would my approx. $$ outlay be on an LED setup.


Crickets. That expensive?


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## Joegrowsalot (May 19, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> why is it so hard for you guys to take a pic of the bud after it is dried and ready to be smoked, I want to see the BAG APPEAL. it seems to be the great ghost of pictures for some reason. HMMMMM???



I can't speak for any one else but once I'm dryed and cured I'm to stone to take pics lok


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## Joegrowsalot (May 19, 2016)

bravedave said:


> Crickets. That expensive?


A 4x4 is what I've got and total tent price complete was 560$ USD as
16 square feet of canopy my lights where marshydro 300 x 4 I'll let you know my yield in two months when I harvest
I think I'll get a pound and a half of the genetics are true to print


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## bravedave (May 20, 2016)

Joegrowsalot said:


> A 4x4 is what I've got and total tent price complete was 560$ USD as
> 16 square feet of canopy my lights where marshydro 300 x 4 I'll let you know my yield in two months when I harvest
> I think I'll get a pound and a half of the genetics are true to print


Don't need a tent and don't see the 300x 4 on their website.


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## Joegrowsalot (May 20, 2016)

bravedave said:


> Don't need a tent and don't see the 300x 4 on their website.


Sorry I'm stone
My point is 2footsquared of light for about 70$


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## bravedave (May 20, 2016)

Joegrowsalot said:


> Sorry I'm stone
> My point is 2footsquared of light for about 70$


You are still stoned.


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## Olive Drab Green (May 20, 2016)

lul.


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## morgwar (May 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I've seem some fire zips for 125 right here in Colorado. Prices are coming down and while it's true that eventually there will be a basic grade, it's especially true of Cannabis that better grades will find a niche. Why? Well- alcohol is alcohol and nicotine is nicotine- but weed really does come in infinite variety!



That is good to hear! And you are right I'm personally hoping its like wine and liquor, Indica/sativa = red/white sour diesel = sailor jerry rum, white widow = jack d etc.etc.etc.
I would pay extra for some foxtailed artisanal African grown by locals as apposed to standard dispensary stuff for me bag appeal is defined as looking or smelling unique
In the end hopefully we will be all growing in the sunshine, legal and free of lights.
After Septembers vote, I'll be growing light of jah under the light of Rah


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## ttystikk (May 22, 2016)

morgwar said:


> That is good to hear! And you are right I'm personally hoping its like wine and liquor, Indica/sativa = red/white sour diesel = sailor jerry rum, white widow = jack d etc.etc.etc.
> I would pay extra for some foxtailed artisanal African grown by locals as apposed to standard dispensary stuff for me bag appeal is defined as looking or smelling unique
> In the end hopefully we will be all growing in the sunshine, legal and free of lights.
> After Septembers vote, I'll be growing light of jah under the light of Rah


No, man. I mean that ethanol is the same whether it's beer, wine or distilled spirits. 

Cannabis will always be different because of the number and variety of cannabinoids. Different ratios really do make a difference in medicinal qualities.


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## Wisher2 (May 22, 2016)

350W of LED will never outgrow in yield to a 1k HPS ...but my 350w of LED does "compare" to a 600w HPS ...now if you wanna talk apples to apples....you could run 16 CXB3590's at 1.7 amps which would give you 63w per sqft literally a COB every sqft running 63w every sqft would make HPS look like a joke......but the problem is there reaches a point of photon saturation when plant growth starts to diminish......a major reason why cob builders scale down matching the maximum amount of photons the plants can intake with the square footage available...which makes for very modular design......you can also scale up or down in amperage to suit your needs 
so yes 350W of LED will never come close to 1K HPS but 1K LED will literally murder a 1K HPS...depending on what type LED we are talking


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## bravedave (May 22, 2016)

Wisher2 said:


> 350W of LED will never outgrow in yield to a 1k HPS ...but my 350w of LED does "compare" to a 600w HPS ...now if you wanna talk apples to apples....you could run 16 CXB3590's at 1.7 amps which would give you 63w per sqft literally a COB every sqft running 63w every sqft would make HPS look like a joke......but the problem is there reaches a point of photon saturation when plant growth starts to diminish......a major reason why cob builders scale down matching the maximum amount of photons the plants can intake with the square footage available...which makes for very modular design......you can also scale up or down in amperage to suit your needs
> so yes 350W of LED will never come close to 1K HPS but 1K LED will literally murder a 1K HPS...depending on what type LED we are talking


Ok thx, now can you point to a specific "type" of 350w of LED that I could buy to replace my 600w mh/hps?


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## Wisher2 (May 22, 2016)

yes 
8 Cree CXB3590 36V
8 Passive pin heatsinks
6 48' angle aluminum 3/4x3/4 1/8" thick
1 Meanwell HLG-320H-C1050 
you will be running 320watts 37.8 watts per COB

you could get the Cutter Mau5 kit
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut2903
and ask to leave the Driver out and get the Meanwell or you could go with the 400 watt driver supplied...either way you would be easily pulling away from a 600W HPS

or you could run 6 with HLG-320H-C1400....at 50 watts a cob


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## EarthBow (May 23, 2016)

Watt for watt, LEDs produce less heat and more light than HID bulbs.

At any given wavelength and frequency, LED photons carry exactly the same energy as photons produced by any other source... plants can't tell the difference.

Used correctly, LEDs can out-perform HID in yield and in quality on a watt per watt basis.

Physics is physics, you can't argue with it. OK, you can, but people then have the right to call you a clown. It's really not all that complicated.


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## Afgan King (May 23, 2016)

EarthBow said:


> Watt for watt, LEDs produce less heat and more light than HID bulbs.
> 
> At any given wavelength and frequency, LED photons carry exactly the same energy as photons produced by any other source... plants can't tell the difference.
> 
> ...


I believe they definitely can out do an hps but still haven't seen one putting down massive numbers definitely have quality can't lie about it but idk I'll find out with @ttystikk but as far as I'm seeing on large scales LED are pulling a g to 2 a watt as well. I'm still waiting for that 3gs a watt number to hit before I invest and overhaul a whole grow


----------



## bravedave (May 23, 2016)

Wisher2 said:


> yes
> 8 Cree CXB3590 36V
> 8 Passive pin heatsinks
> 6 48' angle aluminum 3/4x3/4 1/8" thick
> ...


Yikes, so about $900 to replace my setup. 

Yeah, no. I grow in an unheated barn. My climate has me adding heat for 2/3s of the year so I would be adding significant heat with LEDs. So , about 2 mos. a year it would save me from heat worries 3-4 months a year it might save 50% of my power usage, but most the year would probably be a wash in the power-saving arena. I am just starting my 3rd year with a Quantum 600 digital ballast and some cheapy wing reflector. I have used only 3 bulbs in that ballast. 2mh/1hps. I pulled my first lb in my room with a MH on its fourth grow doing much of the work. That Plantmax bulb cost me < $40. 

I know there is a bunch of ways to look at it but... In 2 years I have spent <$300 on lighting equipment. If instead of buying a $900 LED system for 1 room, I set up 3 rooms with 600w MH/HPS...I am pretty sure I eclipse any power saving difference rather quickly. 

I think I also just explained why big grows are still not turning to LED. 

Thanks for helping me out.


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## ttystikk (May 23, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> I believe they definitely can out do an hps but still haven't seen one putting down massive numbers definitely have quality can't lie about it but idk I'll find out with @ttystikk but as far as I'm seeing on large scales LED are pulling a g to 2 a watt as well. I'm still waiting for that 3gs a watt number to hit before I invest and overhaul a whole grow


I've never seen 2g/w from an HID grow. Best I've seen is 1.5, and usually closer to 1.0.

If LED can bring those numbers up then it has a future. If it can do so while maintaining or improving quality and resin production, it's a slam dunk. 

Based on what I've already seen, it's a slam dunk. I'm still spinning the dials to get things running properly set up, but early indications are pretty convincing.


----------



## Wisher2 (May 23, 2016)

bravedave said:


> Yikes, so about $900 to replace my setup.
> 
> Yeah, no. I grow in an unheated barn. My climate has me adding heat for 2/3s of the year so I would be adding significant heat with LEDs. So , about 2 mos. a year it would save me from heat worries 3-4 months a year it might save 50% of my power usage, but most the year would probably be a wash in the power-saving arena. I am just starting my 3rd year with a Quantum 600 digital ballast and some cheapy wing reflector. I have used only 3 bulbs in that ballast. 2mh/1hps. I pulled my first lb in my room with a MH on its fourth grow doing much of the work. That Plantmax bulb cost me < $40.
> 
> ...


so you are basically saying it will be benificial for 6 months ......that is half the year.....how is that not savings.....
or do you need the 600 because it gets cold in the barn......
and honestly there are alot of big grows using LED's ....Heliospectra, Lumigrow, BML......etc.....
but if you would have to use a heater to keep the temps up then I see how it may not be beneficial.....but for the most part usually indoor growers are usually trying to keep the heat down with cooling and whatnot......


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## ttystikk (May 23, 2016)

Wisher2 said:


> so you are basically saying it will be benificial for 6 months ......that is half the year.....how is that not savings.....
> or do you need the 600 because it gets cold in the barn......
> and honestly there are alot of big grows using LED's ....Heliospectra, Lumigrow, BML......etc.....
> but if you would have to use a heater to keep the temps up then I see how it may not be beneficial.....but for the most part usually indoor growers are usually trying to keep the heat down with cooling and whatnot......


People who say they need heaters during the daytime operation of their grows in the winter actually need INSULATION. Which saves money, lol


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## bravedave (May 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> People who say they need heaters during the daytime operation of their grows in the winter actually need INSULATION. Which saves money, lol


My room is well insulated but it is not uncommon for many successive days of double digit below zero temps...Not to overlook the fact that my intake air is not heated. "Lol"


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## bravedave (May 23, 2016)

Wisher2 said:


> so you are basically saying it will be benificial for 6 months ......that is half the year.....how is that not savings.....
> or do you need the 600 because it gets cold in the barn......
> and honestly there are alot of big grows using LED's ....Heliospectra, Lumigrow, BML......etc.....
> but if you would have to use a heater to keep the temps up then I see how it may not be beneficial.....but for the most part usually indoor growers are usually trying to keep the heat down with cooling and whatnot......


Power usage was not my main issue. Price is. 

LED savings on my power bill is certainly going to be undone by producing 3x as much product with the 3 MH/HPS, 600w setups I could afford to buy with the same money as the 1 LED. Get it? 

6-8 more lbs produced in a year covers a bunch of power even if we are now comparing 320w to 1800w. 

This is where it is relevant to businesses. Both you and are given $10k to start our grows in identical warehouses. You buy 9 320 LEDs. I buy 27 600w MH/HP. With a conservative 3 harvests a year and 1 lb per light....after 2 years I have produced 162 lbs and you have produced 54. Sure my power bill is significant, but nothing 108 extra pounds doesn't compensate for.


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## Abiqua (May 23, 2016)

bravedave said:


> Power usage was not my main issue. Price is.
> 
> LED savings on my power bill is certainly going to be undone by producing 3x as much product with the 3 MH/HPS, 600w setups I could afford to buy with the same money as the 1 LED. Get it?
> 
> ...


this comparison is invalid. It pretends that an led fixture by wattage alone is the exact same comparable to HID. There are several comparisons left out. 

In almost 3 three years I haven't used AC or made a bulb change, how do you calculate that? Have you? that is just one issue of difference. Bag appeal? is for suckers, what ever happened to HEAD fucking Appeal


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## ttystikk (May 23, 2016)

Abiqua said:


> this comparison is invalid. It pretends that an led fixture by wattage alone is the exact same comparable to HID. There are several comparisons left out.
> 
> In almost 3 three years I haven't used AC or made a bulb change, how do you calculate that? Have you? that is just one issue of difference. Bag appeal? is for suckers, what ever happened to HEAD fucking Appeal


Since I'm still running active AC, I'm expecting to be able to make comparisons there. Bulbs are simple; just add up all the lamps you AREN'T using and add them to the cost of running HID!


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## ttystikk (May 23, 2016)

Wisher2 said:


> so you are basically saying it will be benificial for 6 months ......that is half the year.....how is that not savings.....
> or do you need the 600 because it gets cold in the barn......
> and honestly there are alot of big grows using LED's ....Heliospectra, Lumigrow, BML......etc.....
> but if you would have to use a heater to keep the temps up then I see how it may not be beneficial.....but for the most part usually indoor growers are usually trying to keep the heat down with cooling and whatnot......


Time to put your thinking cap on; it's a different light so you treat it differently.


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## bravedave (May 23, 2016)

Abiqua said:


> this comparison is invalid. It pretends that an led fixture by wattage alone is the exact same comparable to HID. There are several comparisons left out.
> 
> In almost 3 three years I haven't used AC or made a bulb change, how do you calculate that? Have you? that is just one issue of difference. Bag appeal? is for suckers, what ever happened to HEAD fucking Appeal


I guess you did not read or understand the whole progression here. My numbers are based on my own reality. My light setup $s included new bulb purchases and I do not run AC either. Your response is invalid...but wait are you saying your stuff lacks bag appeal?


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## Abiqua (May 23, 2016)

bravedave said:


> I guess you did not read or understand the whole progression here. My numbers are based on my own reality. My light setup $s included new bulb purchases and I do not run AC either. Your response is invalid...but wait are you saying your stuff lacks bag appeal?



I am saying quantitative analysis of THC and Terpenoids thru GC/HPLC is better than the eyeball method..
.*so are you saying good looking pot is better than pot that actually affects your head, I am confused too by your post *

*What if you grow CBD strains? are you growing for bag appeal there too, lol. This is medicine not a lollipop. *


I quoted you, my bad, not really directly at you....You need to calculate total costs of both systems to make a correct evaluation. I have seen none.


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## HydroRed (May 23, 2016)

bravedave said:


> Yikes, so about $900 to replace my setup.
> 
> Yeah, no. I grow in an unheated barn. My climate has me adding heat for 2/3s of the year so I would be adding significant heat with LEDs. So , about 2 mos. a year it would save me from heat worries 3-4 months a year it might save 50% of my power usage, but most the year would probably be a wash in the power-saving arena. I am just starting my 3rd year with a Quantum 600 digital ballast and some cheapy wing reflector. I have used only 3 bulbs in that ballast. 2mh/1hps. I pulled my first lb in my room with a MH on its fourth grow doing much of the work. That Plantmax bulb cost me < $40.
> 
> ...


This is about exactly where I'm at with the HPS/LED debate. It boils down to how you use each one to benefit your situation.
For me to grow in the warmer summer months, I have to use an A/C unit -no matter what light source I use. To use my 8 cob led light during those months is an absolute no brainer. Less electricity from the light itself from the wall, less heat expelled which in turn requires less A/C. The whole snowball effect of running cob led's makes total sense. As for the loss of heat being expelled from led's, this now effects my winter time grows because like @bravedave I too rely on the heat from the lights to keep the room warm. Without the heat from the light, I am forced to run a 1500W space heater throughout the entire day to maintain a good temp and that is completely counter productive on efficiency. My room is fully insulated from top to bottom so my loss is minimal. With my HPS the only time I need to use the heater is during the 12 hrs the light is off during flower. Im using my led's for their first run right now and so far the plants are loving life. As of now both HID and LED hold a solid place in my grow room and both aid in reducing my electronic footprint in my grow room.


----------



## bravedave (May 23, 2016)

Abiqua said:


> I am saying quantitative analysis of THC and Terpenoids thru GC/HPLC is better than the eyeball method..
> .*so are you saying good looking pot is better than pot that actually affects your head, I am confused too by your post *
> 
> *What if you grow CBD strains? are you growing for bag appeal there too, lol. This is medicine not a lollipop. *
> ...


You never quoted me and I have not commented at all on quality but if you think your light trumps strain then you would be mistaken. 

The premise I started was asking for a specific LED system that would rival my 600w HID and its price. The price was around $900. My total light need purchases (ballast, reflector, bulbs) over 2 years was $300. So I could have bought 3 of those set-ups 2 years ago for the $900 and thus produced 3x more product than the LED. Certainly not touching on all differences, but the impact of any is going to be quickly erased by the quantity advantage of HIDs in this scenario.


----------



## Wisher2 (May 23, 2016)

bravedave said:


> Power usage was not my main issue. Price is.
> 
> LED savings on my power bill is certainly going to be undone by producing 3x as much product with the 3 MH/HPS, 600w setups I could afford to buy with the same money as the 1 LED. Get it?
> 
> ...


actually that power bill has to factor in because of the fact you are running 16,200 watts then you need to cool all of that
add to it that about 60-70% is heat and only about 30% of those watts are actually contributing to photons.......all of that factors in......but it seems to me like you asked a ? so you could try to disprove the answer or really just looking for a debate.....suit your self....but in 2-3 years HID is obsolete the debate will then be.....I bet my led can outperform yours.....My cob spread is more efficient then yours....
arent we all in the same boat????dont we all grow the same plant????instead of a competition we should be making this about all of us competing against the powers that be to allow us the federal right to do as we please......with our beloved plant.....but if you are one of those people that is just interested in the money train .....maybe it better to invest that money in one of the large corporations gearing to take over this industry just as soon as they get done ironing out how to translate all the war on drugs jobs into cannabis industry jobs


----------



## ttystikk (May 23, 2016)

HydroRed said:


> This is about exactly where I'm at with the HPS/LED debate. It boils down to how you use each one to benefit your situation.
> For me to grow in the warmer summer months, I have to use an A/C unit -no matter what light source I use. To use my 8 cob led light during those months is an absolute no brainer. Less electricity from the light itself from the wall, less heat expelled which in turn requires less A/C. The whole snowball effect of running cob led's makes total sense. As for the loss of heat being expelled from led's, this now effects my winter time grows because like @bravedave I too rely on the heat from the lights to keep the room warm. Without the heat from the light, I am forced to run a 1500W space heater throughout the entire day to maintain a good temp and that is completely counter productive on efficiency. My room is fully insulated from top to bottom so my loss is minimal. With my HPS the only time I need to use the heater is during the 12 hrs the light is off during flower. Im using my led's for their first run right now and so far the plants are loving life. As of now both HID and LED hold a solid place in my grow room and both aid in reducing my electronic footprint in my grow room.


So what you're really saying is that you need insulation, as well. 

I'm working on solutions for removing heat from COB LED and returning it to the room in forms more useful to the grower.


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## bravedave (May 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> So what you're really saying is that you need insulation, as well.
> 
> I'm working on solutions for removing heat from COB LED and returning it to the room in forms more useful to the grower.


No he is saying that your one trick pony answer doesn't apply to him just like it didn't apply to me.


----------



## Wisher2 (May 23, 2016)

honestly why all the bickering......like I said....we are all on the same side right???just because we have differ ways of thinking...dosnt mean either one of us is wrong....there are better ways on all our sides and room to improve......


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## HydroRed (May 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> So what you're really saying is that you need insulation, as well.
> 
> I'm working on solutions for removing heat from COB LED and returning it to the room in forms more useful to the grower.


I wouldnt say need insulation. My rooms are insulated, but in the summer time my rooms will be swiltering hot even if I didnt have lights or anything in the rooms. Its just the environmental effect is greater in extreme months and I use what I have to balance it in my favor at all times. Im curious to hear about what ways you are using to "recycle" lost energy though. I cant seem to find a practical way to use heat in the summer time.


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## bravedave (May 23, 2016)

Wisher2 said:


> actually that power bill has to factor in because of the fact you are running 16,200 watts then you need to cool all of that
> add to it that about 60-70% is heat and only about 30% of those watts are actually contributing to photons.......all of that factors in......but it seems to me like you asked a ? so you could try to disprove the answer or really just looking for a debate.....suit your self....but in 2-3 years HID is obsolete the debate will then be.....I bet my led can outperform yours.....My cob spread is more efficient then yours....
> arent we all in the same boat????dont we all grow the same plant????instead of a competition we should be making this about all of us competing against the powers that be to allow us the federal right to do as we please......with our beloved plant.....but if you are one of those people that is just interested in the money train .....maybe it better to invest that money in one of the large corporations gearing to take over this industry just as soon as they get done ironing out how to translate all the war on drugs jobs into cannabis industry jobs


 You jump to a lot of conclusions and none of them correct and then it is YOU who tries to turn it into a pissing contest. I never said that power consumption was not a factor, just that it would be easily erased by 3x the quantity being produced. HIDs will only become obsolete when LED prices come down and until then we that use HIDs just have to suffer through the arrogance produced by people trying to justify spending too much money on their lights.


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## ttystikk (May 23, 2016)

HydroRed said:


> I wouldnt say need insulation. My rooms are insulated, but in the summer time my rooms will be swiltering hot even if I didnt have lights or anything in the rooms. Its just the environmental effect is greater in extreme months and I use what I have to balance it in my favor at all times. Im curious to hear about what ways you are using to "recycle" lost energy though. I cant seem to find a practical way to use heat in the summer time.


Night cycle heating and dehumidification.


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## ttystikk (May 23, 2016)

bravedave said:


> No he is saying that your one trick pony answer doesn't apply to him just like it didn't apply to me.


My dog does more tricks than you do. 

Don't even bother trying to denigrate my op, you'll just lose whatever respect you might have left on this forum.


----------



## Wisher2 (May 23, 2016)

bravedave said:


> You jump to a lot of conclusions and none of them correct and then it is YOU who tries to turn it into a pissing contest. I never said that power consumption was not a factor, just that it would be easily erased by 3x the quantity being produced. HIDs will only become obsolete when LED prices come down and until then we that use HIDs just have to suffer through the arrogance produced by people trying to justify spending too much money on their lights.


just to clarify.....where did I try to turn anything into a pissing contest....I looked through everything I have written....not once was I bashing or trying to create a pissing contest.....but I just dont understand the logic in asking a question then bashing the answer with how you are better or what you are doing is producing so much more......

as well .....what conclusions am I jumping to?


----------



## bravedave (May 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> My dog does more tricks than you do.
> 
> Don't even bother trying to denigrate my op, you'll just lose whatever respect you might have left on this forum.


Tyysick, denigrate your op? huh? Dude you bounce in twice with the same answer. I explained why you didn't know what you were talking about the first time. The room I built was done with 2x6 construction particularly to satisfy insulation needs. I also deal with intake air that can be sub zero. 
The next gentleman also said his room was insulated just fine, yet he too is blessed with rabbit droppings of your wisdom telling him he was wrong.


----------



## Ecosunlite CREE LED (May 23, 2016)

Around  USD 600 , you can get one full cree led which equal to 1000W HPS . Not claim , it really do .


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## bravedave (May 23, 2016)

Wisher2 said:


> just to clarify.....where did I try to turn anything into a pissing contest....I looked through everything I have written....not once was I bashing or trying to create a pissing contest.....but I just dont understand the logic in asking a question then bashing the answer with how you are better or what you are doing is producing so much more......
> 
> as well .....what conclusions am I jumping to?


Wisher2, maybe you should reread things again. You obviously jumped to the conclusion that I was here to debate. Pretty sure when I analyzed your first response to me, I did so matter of factly, ending with thanking you. Who pushed it forward from there again? I was sincere in finding out what actually was the LED equivalent and its price. You proceeded to muddy the waters, I guess because the simple truth of what I pointed out bothered you. 

Bottom line is you told me what LED system I would need to buy to equal or better my HID setup. I discovered that the price was more than triple what I paid for my HID setup. I believe you when you suggest that, one to one, the LED draws less power overall. Problem is, the price makes it 3 to 1. No matter how fast you dance you cannot convince me (anyone?) that 6 extra pounds produced every year by having 2 extra HID setups does not eclipse any savings in power usage. 

Just sayin...but yeah no hard feelings. I look forward to my first LED grow.


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## bravedave (May 23, 2016)

Ecosunlite CREE LED said:


> Around View attachment 3689299 USD 600 , you can get one full cree led which equal to 1000W HPS . Not claim , it really do .


How much?


----------



## Ecosunlite CREE LED (May 23, 2016)

bravedave said:


> How much?


USD 600 , if you get it , think it's not equal to 1000W HPS , ask money return through paypal .


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## ttystikk (May 25, 2016)

Ecosunlite CREE LED said:


> Around View attachment 3689299 USD 600 , you can get one full cree led which equal to 1000W HPS . Not claim , it really do .





Ecosunlite CREE LED said:


> USD 600 , if you get it , think it's not equal to 1000W HPS , ask money return through paypal .


Specifications and spectrum output graph, please! We the users of RIU have seen more than our fair share of grand claims made with little supporting data, and so you will understand our reluctance to simply take you at your word.


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## Ecosunlite CREE LED (May 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Specifications and spectrum output graph, please! We the users of RIU have seen more than our fair share of grand claims made with little supporting data, and so you will understand our reluctance to simply take you at your word.


http://www.ecosunlite.com/e_productshow/?56-ESL-CREE-CX-COB-LED-6-56.html


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## malicifice (May 26, 2016)

gubblebum said:


> Ah sorry didnt realize there was an LED section! Looking through it now! I'd much prefer to grow using HID but, I'd say I'm safely limited to around 2000w of lights in my 2 bedroom apartment so I'm thinking how I can get more yield without raising suspicion on electricity usage!
> 
> So I'm thinking
> 
> HID Vertical grow SOG or Horizontal and LED lights if they allow you say get close to double output per watt. My worries about a vertical SOG is the first grow or 2 I wont be sure about spacing and will get less yield than a traditional SOG.


Why are you worried about your usage? Unless your not in a legal situation or state, electric companies don't give a shit as long as you pay your bill. I get where your coming from though, if you got your bases covered it's unneeded worry. The only reason I see to go led is cost for usage. Fuck PG&E and their level 4 usage bullshit. Edison in southern California doesn't pull that bull shit.


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## EarthBow (May 28, 2016)

Bingo. Commercial growers shouldn't be all that concerned with grams per watt because grams are worth so much more than kilowatt hours. A better metric for commercial growers is yield per square foot.

LEDs have much higher up front costs, but much lower operating costs. With HID, you have to figure in the cost of replacement ballasts, bulbs, and increased energy usage... over the life of the system. Secondary costs like increased AC cost and others factor in too.

Those of us growing on a small scale for personal use look at it a little differently. The "stealth" benefit of using a lot less watts can make up for the higher up front cost. LED systems can also run much quieter. There's no "one size fits all" answer, but for me, LED seems to be the way to go.


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## ttystikk (May 28, 2016)

EarthBow said:


> Bingo. Commercial growers shouldn't be all that concerned with grams per watt because grams are worth so much more than kilowatt hours. *A better metric for commercial growers is yield per square foot.*


BINGO! THIS, right here. If LED can do this for commercial growing, then commercial facilities will have little reason NOT to be interested. At any price, because the price of grams produced supports the upfront cost.


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## gubblebum (May 30, 2016)

Wow this really turned into a debate!!! Im just dreaming/hypothesizing really about what would be the most efficient way to maximize yield in a SOG with a 2000w limit. So 2000w of LED vs 2000w of HID vertical...

So I've concluded vertical would likely average say 1 gram per watt for an average grower with large plant numbers in a smaller floorspace.

LED seems to say around 1 gram per watt also BUT I dont think its suitable for a vertical setup?


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## gubblebum (May 30, 2016)

http://www.hightimes.com/read/grow-lighting-led-vs-hps Damming towards LED... allthough a few years old?


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## ttystikk (May 30, 2016)

gubblebum said:


> Wow this really turned into a debate!!! Im just dreaming/hypothesizing really about what would be the most efficient way to maximize yield in a SOG with a 2000w limit. So 2000w of LED vs 2000w of HID vertical...
> 
> So I've concluded vertical would likely average say 1 gram per watt for an average grower with large plant numbers in a smaller floorspace.
> 
> LED seems to say around 1 gram per watt also BUT I dont think its suitable for a vertical setup?


Lol


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## gubblebum (May 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Lol


What's funny Yoda? lol


----------



## bravedave (May 31, 2016)

@EarthBow
Bingo. Commercial growers shouldn't be all that concerned with grams per watt because grams are worth so much more than kilowatt hours. A better metric for commercial growers is yield per square foot.

*Certainly seems to put things on an even footing. *

LEDs have much higher up front costs, but much lower operating costs. With HID, you have to figure in the cost of replacement ballasts, bulbs, and increased energy usage... over the life of the system. Secondary costs like increased AC cost and others factor in too.
*
I am about to start year three having purchased only 3 bulbs. None over $50. Ballast is still running without a hiccup. While my bulb use may not be optimal i have continued to produce dank stuff and my yields continue to improve. 8* *months out of the year I am adding heat to my room. There are only 2 months that I wish I had AC, but I manage without. So temperature wise the advantage goes to HPS as I would be adding even more heat if I were running LED. Not to overlook that humidity would be more of an issue with LED, not burning it off and thus needing energy for more dehumidification. That certainly cuts into the often claimed 30% LED* *energy advantage. LED systems also do not come with lifetime guarantees. Don't the lights themselves have a 50000 hour lifespan or only about 5x more than most HID? *

Those of us growing on a small scale for personal use look at it a little differently. The "stealth" benefit of using a lot less watts can make up for the higher up front cost. LED systems can also run much quieter. There's no "one size fits all" answer, but for me, LED seems to be the way to go.

*Not sure what you consider "small scale" but lets say 1000w. The power company isn't going to sweat a 10 amp increase in someones power usage. Not sure about the quieter, either. LED users still exhaust their tents/rooms, right?...that and the dehumidifier I run are the noisemakers...I see no advantage there. "There's no "one size fits all" answer, but for me, HID seems to be the way to go"*


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## ttystikk (May 31, 2016)

gubblebum said:


> What's funny Yoda? lol


First, it's ttystikk to you. 

Second, you shouldn't write things off unless you actually know.


----------



## EarthBow (May 31, 2016)

I'm not an LED salesman, so I'm not trying to convince anyone to make the switch. If you can make use of the additional heat, then HID is probably right for you.

Let's crunch some numbers just for the hell of it...

Let's say a 300 watt LED is roughly the equivalent (in light output) of a 600 watt HID, but used 1/2 the electricity. Let's also say that the LEDs will last 30,000 hours (even though i have seen ratings from 50,000 to 100,000 hours)

Running 12/12 cycles for 9 weeks is about 750 hours. 30,000 / 750 = 40, so you should see 40 harvests out of the LEDs. If you run 5 crops a year, this would be 8 years.

300 watts for 30,000 hours is 9,000 kwh. Energy cost would depend on your local rates...

9.000 kwh @ .10 = $ 900
9.000 kwh @ .1258 = $1,132 (US National Average)
9.000 kwh @ .15 = $1,350
9.000 kwh @ .20 = $1,800

Since a 600 watt HID fixture would consume twice the energy over the same period of time, we can see that the energy cost of running LEDs is equal to the savings. For example, if you pay 15 cents per kwh, a 300 watt LED will cost $1,350 less to run over its life. This difference alone more than offsets the higher up front cost.

So the cost of a 600 watt HID fixture (looked at over 8 years) is the original cost of the fixture, plus its energy usage, plus a replacement bulb a year, plus at least one replacement ballast.

Or roughly...
Cost of hood, ballast, light $ 200
Energy @ .15/kwh 2,700
1 replacement bulb/year 350 (7 x $50)
1 replacement ballast 75 
total $ 3325

And the cost of the LED...
Initial cost of fixture $ 900 (300 "wall watt" HydroGrow Sol 6)
Energy @ .15/kwh 1,350
total $2,250

Unless I am missing something? If I'm wrong, I would appreciate someone taking the time to help me get my head out of my ass. Thanks!


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## dandyrandy (May 31, 2016)

My led is so efficient it powers my home with the excess energy


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## potpimp (May 31, 2016)

I love the pot plants pix at the bottom of their page. They don't make any bones about it. From my experience, LED's are great for vegging but I've got to upgrade my lights to flower. The COB would do the job.


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## potpimp (May 31, 2016)

Ecosunlite CREE LED said:


> So far , we have one led which is not claiming equal to 1000W HPS ,HID , Ours works equal to 1000W HPS. HID .http://www.ecosunlite.com/e_productshow/?56-ESL-CREE-CX-COB-LED-6-56.html


What's up with having to give your name to get a quote? You know, people are kinda funny about giving out their real names. Just saying. BTW, do we get an RIU discount?


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## redzi (May 31, 2016)

Several brands of LED are sold on Amazon....it's feedback is a good source of info on what to buy. The question and answer boards are also informative.


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## bravedave (May 31, 2016)

EarthBow said:


> I'm not an LED salesman, so I'm not trying to convince anyone to make the switch. If you can make use of the additional heat, then HID is probably right for you.
> 
> Let's crunch some numbers just for the hell of it...
> 
> ...


First, do you have an LED setup anything like you describe?


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## EarthBow (May 31, 2016)

Not as I described, no, but i do run LEDs in flowering.


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## bravedave (Jun 1, 2016)

EarthBow said:


> Not as I described, no, but i do run LEDs in flowering.


Cool. Not going to accept that a 300W LED equals a 600w HID, though. I think the general consensus is a 30% power usage advantage, not 50%, to match yields. So, we are looking at a 420w LED System then.

Still using the 8 year and $.15kW, my power number doesn't change: $2700. Yours however then is 70%*2700= $1890 or $810 in electricity savings or about $100 per year.

Your purchase price goes up also. 300w for $900 has the 420w coming in at about $1260. Right? So your total now is $1890+$1260= $3150.

Again, mine has not changed so we are talking $3325 vs $3150 or $175 advantage after 8 years. With the HID holding the advantage into the 7th year.

Show me a non-scrogged 300w LED grow that can pull 1.5 lbs in that 9 weeks and we can turn this over again.

Edit: This also ignores the financial advantage of having $1060 still in my pocket to make decisions with that first year after the HID system purchase.


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## EarthBow (Jun 1, 2016)

Yeah, fair enough. It's probably closer than I thought.

If you live in Cali and pay closer to .30 or .35 per kwh, then it seems like LEDs might be the way to go, especially when you factor in the cost of the additional AC to make up for extra heat of the HIDs.

I'm paying .17 per kwh, but then again, I didn't plunk down $900 for my LEDs. I wanted to try them out a year or so ago and got 4 Mars 300s for less than 300 total. In a 4x4 tent, it's almost too much light and slaughters my 600 watt HID fixture in terms of production, but draws about 560 from the wall total. I highly doubt they will last 30,000 hours, but it was a cheap way to get mt feet wet, so to speak.

My next LED adventure will be building some DIY Cree COB units, which I am going to build into stripped down 4' fluorescent fixtures. I mentioned this project (under my YouTube name) to GrowMau5, but he said he's too busy to do it. If I ever get around to building them, i think the fluorescent fixtures

I've


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## bravedave (Jun 1, 2016)

EarthBow said:


> Yeah, fair enough. It's probably closer than I thought.
> 
> If you live in Cali and pay closer to .30 or .35 per kwh, then it seems like LEDs might be the way to go, especially when you factor in the cost of the additional AC to make up for extra heat of the HIDs.
> 
> ...


You are a good man. In am also growing in about the same space under a 600 but without scrogging I can't imagine packing in many more colas. . This is from around week 6 of a 10 week strain...


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## kmog33 (Jun 1, 2016)

bravedave said:


> You are a good man. In am also growing in about the same space under a 600 but without scrogging I can't imagine packing in many more colas. . This is from around week 6 of a 10 week strain...
> View attachment 3697176
> View attachment 3697177


Looks good, but you could totally fit more in there. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ttystikk (Jun 1, 2016)

If y'all think LED is the answer just because it shaves a lil off your power bill, you're missing all the best parts.


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## bravedave (Jun 1, 2016)

kmog33 said:


> Looks good, but you could totally fit more in there.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks, correct, and I like how you think. I've opted for wiggle room as I end up with more than I need. Still more than the 3x3 600w optimum.


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## EarthBow (Jun 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> If y'all think LED is the answer just because it shaves a lil off your power bill, you're missing all the best parts.


The energy savings are just a small part of it, really. I think it's overall a better quality of light (spectrum-wise) too, and where I live, the lower heat is better.

Having said that, I'm not convinced the lights I have are providing the ideal spectrum. Then again, I'm not all that concerned with 5% or 10% increases in yield that the ideal spectrum might add. 

I've heard people say, "Plants evolved on Earth, so they use the entire spectrum that the sun provides." This, of course, isn't true, any more than saying, "fish evolved on Earth, so they can make use of any kind of water." 2/3rds of the planet is covered with salt water, and the fresh water fish can't use any of it.

Each strain has an ideal spectrum. If we all grew landraces, it would be relatively easy to nail this perfect spectrum for a particular strain, but we mostly grow crosses of crosses of crosses, so I don't see any sure way to determine the ideal.


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## stoner-socks (Jun 1, 2016)

bravedave said:


> You are a good man. In am also growing in about the same space under a 600 but without scrogging I can't imagine packing in many more colas. . This is from around week 6 of a 10 week strain...


That grow room is awesome.


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