# Grow Room Floorplans. Here to help.



## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

Well, this really sucks. Lost all of that great info that was posted on this thread and have to start it over again. Complete waste. Anyway, to all of those who had questions or floorplans up on here just let me know and I will repost them. Be specific as to which was yours as I have them all saved. Here you go Phishtank. This is the one we hae been working on.


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## phishtank (Mar 16, 2012)

Thanks brother. They can knock us down but they cant knock us out brotha. The joys of the internet. Atleast it's been claimed that anon. has been doing it...i'm a fan of them...so they can deface and hack any website they please in my mind.


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## xRenox (Mar 16, 2012)

Can you keep a T-5 Fluro for clones and mothers all in one area instead of the 600w MH....looking to cut costs right now. I have the fluro's but would have to get the ballast and bulb for the MH. I was told that a few T-5's would do the job in my clone room and mothers.


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## tehgenoc1de (Mar 16, 2012)

xRenox said:


> Can you keep a T-5 Fluro for clones and mothers all in one area instead of the 600w MH....looking to cut costs right now. I have the fluro's but would have to get the ballast and bulb for the MH. I was told that a few T-5's would do the job in my clone room and mothers.


Definitely.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

xRenox said:


> Can you keep a T-5 Fluro for clones and mothers all in one area instead of the 600w MH....looking to cut costs right now. I have the fluro's but would have to get the ballast and bulb for the MH. I was told that a few T-5's would do the job in my clone room and mothers.


Sure. What a lot of guys do is build a shelf about 5' high and mount the T5 underneath for the mothers and then put their clones on top with some CFL's or a smaller T5. You might not want to put them under the same T5 because your moms are going to be a lot bigger so you will have to keep the light farther away and this may stretch your clones.


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## therealrobo (Mar 16, 2012)

Ok, gotta start over again lol. To answer ur questions

* i planned on using a portable a/c to cool the room

* 1 6"inline fan to cool the 1000w hoods, seperate

* 1 inline fan and carbon filter to ventilate the rooms

* wall fans as needed (whatever u suggest, they are cheap)

* dehumidifier - not sure if im gonna need on

Also gonna chang the 600w for the mothers to a t5 fluro. The back wall with the recessed section (the 10' part is against a bedroom and the 4' part is back up the the back yard)


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## therealrobo (Mar 16, 2012)

Not sure if im using co2, get a lot of mixed answers when talking to ppl as far as the ventilation goes


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## phishtank (Mar 16, 2012)

what i was asking last night....was how big of an AC would i need to not have to vent anything out of my room?


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

phishtank said:


> what i was asking last night....was how big of an AC would i need to not have to vent anything out of my room?


Ambient Room Temps (40btu per 1sq.ft.) = 16,000btu (20'x20'x40btu)
600w Lights (2,400btu x 10) = 24,000btu
600w Ballasts (1,500btu x 5) = 7,500btu
Dehumidifier Flower (30btu x 70pint rating) = 2,100btu
Dehumidifier Veg (30btu x 50pint rating) = 1,500btu

51,100btu. This doesn't factor in a Co2 generator if you get one. So what you are looking at is a 4 ton a/c. You could try it out with a 3 ton (36,000btu) unit and see if it works. These are just generally accepted calculations but aren't true for mst rooms. Worse comes to wrse you just have to vent the lights if it doesn't work. Not hard to add some ducting and a few holes in the wall for exhaust.


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## phishtank (Mar 16, 2012)

Yeah was just wondering. If I dont have to poke holes in the exterior walls of the home it would be nice. I've also thought about starting the vent system at one wall of the room facing the garage..and exhausting to another wall facing the garage....and just venting air out of that side of the garage since there is a window over there.


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## Kyle Keen Green (Mar 16, 2012)

Need some Help designing my Grow please 
*

Ok, So the room size first of all is 100" x 124" box shape There is a hole in the wall that is currently being used for ventilation from my bathroom, that's next door. There is also another ventilation hole at the bottom of my room. Im new to growing so any help is appreciated. Just downloading sketchup to give you a plan. Ive got a 600watt HPS Wing Reflector and an 18" air circulator. Anything else you need to know, just ask. Looking to grow 6-10 Plants.​
​

*


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

phishtank said:


> Yeah was just wondering. If I dont have to poke holes in the exterior walls of the home it would be nice. I've also thought about starting the vent system at one wall of the room facing the garage..and exhausting to another wall facing the garage....and just venting air out of that side of the garage since there is a window over there.


iIf you are doing a window a/c then just pull the air from that side through the space on the side of the a/c and exhaust it into the garage. You just make plywood cutouts on ither side of the a/c with 6 or 8" holes and flanges. then just connect ducting to your lighs and pull straight through. really easy.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

Kyle Keen Green said:


> Need some Help designing my Grow please
> *
> 
> Ok, So the room size first of all is 100" x 124" box shape There is a hole in the wall that is currently being used for ventilation from my bathroom, that's next door. There is also another ventilation hole at the bottom of my room. Im new to growing so any help is appreciated. Just downloading sketchup to give you a plan. Ive got a 600watt HPS Wing Reflector and an 18" air circulator. Anything else you need to know, just ask. Looking to grow 6-10 Plants.​
> ...


You sure those distance are correct? That is a 12,400 sq.ft. room. That is twice the size of my house.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

therealrobo said:


> Ok, gotta start over again lol. To answer ur questions
> 
> * i planned on using a portable a/c to cool the room
> 
> ...


Hey Robo, this is what I've got so far. If you are using a protable a/c then you eed to put a passive intake fan on the wall with a temperature controller to pull cool air from the flower room into the veg room. You are going to need to put some type of fan on your mothers just to push that air out of that cubby space. Any wall fan will work. Hang your carbon filter and fan against the ceiling. It will save you a ton of space. I HIGHLY recommend Co2 in your flower room. Get yourself a small Co2 generator and a controller. Look at the Mini Gen for Hydro Innovations. They even have a controller fro it. All together about $500 plus a propane tank. Co2 will significantly increase your yield. Still do not understand how you will be venting your lights in the flower room and in the veg. Are you going to be just blowing that air back into the room? Or are you going to be pulling/venting that air from outside? Which wall will you be using? Let me know.


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## Kyle Keen Green (Mar 16, 2012)

I've done the measurements in Inches  hehe


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

Kyle Keen Green said:


> I've done the measurements in Inches  hehe


Ooops! My bad.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

Kyle Keen Green said:


> I've done the measurements in Inches  hehe


How tall is the room and where are the doors (north, south, etc../middle of the wall, bottom, right, left, etc..)


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## Kyle Keen Green (Mar 16, 2012)

Basically Window is north facing, door is south-west corner, Pretty high about 80inch


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## Kyle Keen Green (Mar 16, 2012)

To make it easier window on back of house say thats back wall then my door is on the bottom left wall. Vents are Below and above the window.


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## phishtank (Mar 16, 2012)

I plan on installing a minisplit.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

phishtank said:


> I plan on installing a minisplit.


Even better. Make a cutout of plywood or drywall to cover the window and seal around it. Put two 6" holes in it and attach flanges to the holes. Then just attach ducting to your hoods and you're good. Or buy a dual zone 4 ton mini split and stick on ein your veg and another in your flower.


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## phishtank (Mar 16, 2012)

There isnt a window so I'm going to have to install it into the wall. Just didnt know if it was possible to cool the entire room with like a 3 ton unit.


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## Kyle Keen Green (Mar 16, 2012)

What you think Phil can you help me out?


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

You can definitely do your flower room with a 3 ton unit. Even if you put your ballasts in there. You are just gonna have to look into something for your veg room because i'm not sure an intake fan will cover it. Maybe just vent the hoods from your flower room and have an intake fan/controller on the wall pulling air into your veg.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

Don't forget about +rep fellas.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

Kyle Keen Green said:


> What you think Phil can you help me out?


Working on it right now.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

Kyle Keen Green said:


> What you think Phil can you help me out?


How are you going to cool the room? Do you want a seperate area inside the room for veg/clone/mother? What other equipment will you have in the room (i.e. ballasts, filter, Co2, etc...)


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## Kyle Keen Green (Mar 16, 2012)

What you think Phil can you help me out?


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## Kyle Keen Green (Mar 16, 2012)

oops didnt mean to put that last post again, I need help with all that, No serperate area, will be needed. Will have 600 watt hps ballast with 600watt wing reflector, 18 air circulator.


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## Kyle Keen Green (Mar 16, 2012)

Looking to place plants in middle of room with light hanging down from ceiling. Never done this before, so any points in the right direction will be much appreciated. Will be using Bio-Bizz full mix soil.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

Kyle Keen Green said:


> Looking to place plants in middle of room with light hanging down from ceiling. Never done this before, so any points in the right direction will be much appreciated. Will be using Bio-Bizz full mix soil.


What about a/c? Is the room cool or are you going to have to add some type of cooling? A 600w light won't affect temps that much but if it's hot during the summer than centrail air is not going to cut it. Especially since the hood is not air cooled.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

Do you have money to buy extra things like Co2, a mother/clone tent, T5's, etc...?


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## Kyle Keen Green (Mar 16, 2012)

Its only going to be a quick opp, Ive got a 3 month time scale max, very risky biz. So dont want to spend big bucks, but I am willing to buy whats necessary. Can Buy t5's yeah, Dont no much about venting!


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

This is what I have so far. You need to answer a lot of questions before I can really design something. Placing your plants in the middle of the room is a waste of space. You are going to need a space for Mother plants and clones/veg. Tent would be the easiest way to go. If you can build then even better because with a tent in that room then you won't be able to go into the tent when the flowering plants are in dark cycle. Building a wall to seperate them would be ideal and probably cheaper than a tent.

Still need to know about a/c, carbon filter, C02, budget, etc..


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

If you are only doing 1 grow then you don't need a space for mother plants or veg either. You just veg them in the room and then switch light cycle when you want to. It's not that hard. If you have an a/c in the room or central air then that will be enough to cool the hood. You don't need to have any ventilation besides the fan in the room. Just buy a cheap carbon filter/fan combo. Something with a 4" fan will be fine and should run you under $100. Then all you need are seeds/clones, pots, soil, nutrients and you are good.


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## Kyle Keen Green (Mar 16, 2012)

I was going to Veg and Flower my plants at same time really, I can build a tent, I suppose, but I thought this would Reduce my available space. I was going to use the whole space for veg, then flower. I have a good few hundred english pounds to spend on some Ventilation, I wont be getting A/C so I would need an alternative. English weather isnt great tho, so I didnt think this would be a problem. I was also going to install a Carbon filter, there is a big hole in the wall I can fit this to with some ducting.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

You said 3 months. That is only enough time to do 1 cycle. Therefore you won't need to build anything. Start your seeds in the room under some cheap CFL's. When they get about 10" tall switch them to the 600w. If it's a switchabel ballast them but an MH bulb for it. Veg them till they are 2' tall then switch to a HPS bulb and 12/12. Flower the plants and bounce. Put a fan in the window that sucks air out of the room and put a carbon filter on it. Bring air into the room from the house (passive intake). It will come in from under the door most likely. Or use the two vents you have. Bring air in the bottom one and exhaust if through the top one. Then just scrub the air in the room with the filter. You are making this WAY more complicated than it has to be for a 1 time grow. You can basically do whatever you want. It's not going to be sustainable so who cares. A 600w light isn't going to create that much heat. Just scrub the air in the room for smell and you should be fine. DOn't even have to worry about ventilation. Worry more about actually growing the plants. That's gonna be the hard part.


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## Kyle Keen Green (Mar 16, 2012)

Yeah good advice +rep, I see you around the forum a lot so ill get on with it and come back to you with any problems if ok? Hell ill even add you as a friend. Thanks again.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

Drop by anytime with questions man. Good luck.


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## Kyle Keen Green (Mar 16, 2012)

Thanks man, will need it ,like I said, Its pretty risky, got helicopters heat scanning and my landlord could be knocking around, but I hopefully have it all worked out!


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## oHsiN666 (Mar 16, 2012)

hey can you help me. i would like to run a 2x1000w system in a 4x8 tent. i have the room space, but can not make any design adjustments to the house im renting. wife would freak out on me!! i have heard about water chilled hoods. and would need to run that in my set up.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

oHsiN666 said:


> hey can you help me. i would like to run a 2x1000w system in a 4x8 tent. i have the room space, but can not make any design adjustments to the house im renting. wife would freak out on me!! i have heard about water chilled hoods. and would need to run that in my set up.


4x8 would be perfect for 2 600w lights. If you haven't bought them already. Plus, you could get the Lumatek Dual Ballast. It has to be wired 240v but it only uses 5.5 amps and it runs 2 bulbs off the one ballast. They are pretty cool. 600w lights will save you a lot on cooling costs as well. 2 1000w bulbs in that space is a little overkill in my opinion. As for water cooling them...that's ballsy bro. No offense but it will be a lot cheaper for you to get a portable a/c and it will take up a lot less space. To cool that area and those lights you would need a 3/4 - 1hp chiller, good pump, reservoir, manifold lines, etc... Kind of a pain in the ass if you ask me for suck a small space. I love water cooling and I am a big supporter of it but in most small situations like yours it's not really needed and not cost effective.


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## oHsiN666 (Mar 16, 2012)

damn!! back to the drawing board again.... my thing is. i have to have 2x1000w. it is a must!! i have a buddy pulling 2.5 pounds off each 1000w he is running. 1.14g/w. is amazing in my book. i would be very happy with a total yield of 1g/watt. it does run a little hot here. ok, so my next concern is, if i can not make any holes in walls, how can i exhaust the heat out? or can i exhaust it into my a/c ducting? the one the a/c normally comes out of in any home. take the grill off, stuff insulation or something in the duct work and draw the exhaust out through there? would that work? i have also heard about getting a portable fridge and cutting a hole on top. seems a little much for me though. i do not own any hardcore power tools. i can't imagine what would cut a hole through the top of a portable fridge. im at a brick wall with all this again. i am running 1x1000w in a 4x4 right now. and it is AWESOME!!! i love it. i couldn't imagine a 600w doing the same thing. less lumans. and i have heard from an old close friend that 1000w in a 4x4 is overkill. i just have better results with it. and feel comfortable running it. 

im having a damn issue now with my exhaust though. 4x4 tents have 6" exhaust ports. i have been having some major issues with the ducting not drawing the heat out properly. and during the day it is a major issue. plus it is major a ungodly humming noise in the living room. before it was pretty damn silent out here. but lately is messed up. i have a thread posted with pics. but i know im doing something wrong. this set up is from dude at the hydro shop that is no longer there. guess he fucked a lot of peoples shit up before getting canned. needless to say i trusted him and i got fucked over hard. but if you can help, please see my thread. i cant get a link right now...


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

Hey guys...cool grow journal that an RIU frien has going. Check it out. 2hp chiller, 3000w, Co2, etc...

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/513182-newb-grow-journal.html#post7153220


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

oHsiN666 said:


> damn!! back to the drawing board again.... my thing is. i have to have 2x1000w. it is a must!! i have a buddy pulling 2.5 pounds off each 1000w he is running. 1.14g/w. is amazing in my book. i would be very happy with a total yield of 1g/watt. it does run a little hot here. ok, so my next concern is, if i can not make any holes in walls, how can i exhaust the heat out? or can i exhaust it into my a/c ducting? the one the a/c normally comes out of in any home. take the grill off, stuff insulation or something in the duct work and draw the exhaust out through there? would that work? i have also heard about getting a portable fridge and cutting a hole on top. seems a little much for me though. i do not own any hardcore power tools. i can't imagine what would cut a hole through the top of a portable fridge. im at a brick wall with all this again. i am running 1x1000w in a 4x4 right now. and it is AWESOME!!! i love it. i couldn't imagine a 600w doing the same thing. less lumans. and i have heard from an old close friend that 1000w in a 4x4 is overkill. i just have better results with it. and feel comfortable running it.
> 
> im having a damn issue now with my exhaust though. 4x4 tents have 6" exhaust ports. i have been having some major issues with the ducting not drawing the heat out properly. and during the day it is a major issue. plus it is major a ungodly humming noise in the living room. before it was pretty damn silent out here. but lately is messed up. i have a thread posted with pics. but i know im doing something wrong. this set up is from dude at the hydro shop that is no longer there. guess he fucked a lot of peoples shit up before getting canned. needless to say i trusted him and i got fucked over hard. but if you can help, please see my thread. i cant get a link right now...


You don't want to exhaust it into the a/c vent cause then your whole house will smell. do you have a windo in the room? what is above the room? you could exhaust into the ceiling. It's an easy fix later on. If you are in a tent then just exhaust into the room the tent is in.

you can run a 1000w in a 4x4 space but you aren't getting anything more off your plants that you would't get from a 600w. You are actually just wasting electricity and adding heat in my opinion. If you are in a tent you really aren't concerned with liht penetration cause even the tallest tents are only 7'. I could put 2 1000w lamps in a 4x4 but it doesn't mean that because I have more lumens it is better. What's more important is the footprint, footcandles, and height of my canopy. With a 1000w you have light that is not being used by your plants.

send me the link to your thread. with all that money you were going to spend on water cooling why not just get a portable a/c. stick it in the room that the tent will be in. put it on as low as it will go. then use that air to run straight through your hoods and also as the passive intake air for the tent. you create the negative pressure in your tent by exhausting your carbon filter out of the tent.


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## phishtank (Mar 16, 2012)

Well I'm going to start peicing together my shopping list. trying to figure out how much of this 10K will go to equipment costs. So far for all the lights i'm only looking at like 2700 dollars.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

That's not too bad. Lights are always to most expensive part. The rest of that stuff you can get pretty cheap. I'll hook it up for ya with my boy and make sure he gives you my pricing when he does your quote. Then you can compare it to pricing you get elsewhere. He's gonna beat anybody else if he gives you the same discount I get. He can probably get you that Lumatek ballast for like $280.


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## phishtank (Mar 16, 2012)

Right now I'm getting the ballasts for 275 a peice.

this is what I have so far.

*View Cart
[HR][/HR]
*
*Sl.#**Item Description**UM**Price**Qty**Amount*1600W DUAL Lumatek Digital Ballast - 240V EA$275.95 5$1,379.75 2LumenAire 8" Reflector EA$81.95 10$819.50 3600 HPS Digilux Bulb - 95,000 lumens EA$60.95 8$487.60 4400 MH Regular Bulb - 36,000 lumens EA$15.39 2$30.78 5MaxLume T5 Light System - 4', 6 Bulbs EA$145.95 1$145.95 6MLC-8XT Lighting Control w/ Timer EA$189.95 1$189.95 7EC/TDS/Temp Combo Waterproof Meter EA$47.95 1$47.95 8PPM3 - CO2 PPM Monitor/Control by CAP EA$329.95 1$329.95 9REG-1 CO2 Regulator / Valve EA$91.95 1$91.95 *Cart weight: *766.50lbs. *Total Quantity: *30 *Total Amount:* $3,523.38 


*Note:**




*



*




*Indicates the item is configurable.


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## phishtank (Mar 16, 2012)

ignore the 400W bulbs...trying to dig up a good price on some 600W ones...but added them in there untill i could find them.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

mind if he changes a few things? i'm sure he can get most of that but the T5 might be a Sun Blaze model (same as I use) and the hoods might my Sun Systems. You could sace some money going with 6" hoods too. With a 600w bulb you really don't need 8" hoods and fans. Saves you some money too. I'll send it over to him and see what he comes up with.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

Just sent it out to my boy. He might have something for me tomorrow, if not, then Monday for sure.


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## phishtank (Mar 16, 2012)

Alright yeah. The only reason why I was going with the 8" was for moving more volume. I know with 6" the velocity will be greater and technically I can still run the larger 8" fan to move more air.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

Another thing I just noticed. You only have 4 trigger cords in your flower room so you don't need the MLC-8. That's an 8 trigger box. You can get by with the MLC-4XT. Is that cool? Plus, add the C.A.P. HLC-3e. This is the EXACT setup I have with the MLC-8, HLC-3e and my Agrowtek Environmental Controller. The HLC will only cost you another $70 and it will save your ass. It's worth it.


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## phishtank (Mar 16, 2012)

Alright does the MLC-4XT have a 40 amp 220v?


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

The 4XT is rated for 30amps. I have one of those in my veg room. You are running 4 Dual ballasts in your flower at 5.5 amps per ballast. That's only 22amps. You are fine.


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## phishtank (Mar 16, 2012)

Alright that works then ^_^.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

Then you just get a simple 240v timer for the ballast in your veg room.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 16, 2012)

Titan Controls Apollo 11 (240v Digitial Timer)


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## oHsiN666 (Mar 19, 2012)

HEY~ i have a question. how about i get the 1000w dimmables, get 1000w bulbs. run everything at 600w, and if it does not produce like i think it should or could, i can then just switch it up to 1000w and be where i want to be. im not disagreeing with you by any means. i have been told a few times that 1000w is a little much for a 4x4. but a lot of grow books, and other growers DO advise using or say you can use a 1000w in a 4x4. i know a 1000w would be more efficient in a 6x6 tent or space. im mostly thinking about the future. 1 day, these tents will be gone, i will be in my own house, and then i will use 4 1000w in a 12x12 room. that is my ultimate goal!!! i also go by watts. i have heard 1g/watt is about average. in my head 600w is less then 1000w. my 1st set up involved a 1000w light and a light mover. how does that sound? i just hear my buddies grower getting 2.5 pounds from 2x1000w lights. in a 4x8 tent. is it safe to say that i could get 5 pounds out of a 4x8 with 2x600w lights? i have a pretty good feeling you will say "yes"!


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## oHsiN666 (Mar 19, 2012)

oh! 1 more question. you said they make a ballast that i can plug 2 600w lights into, correct? do they make the same ballast for 2x1000w lights? and if so, how many amps does that draw?

are bathrooms wired the same as other rooms. i know, it sounds like a dumb question, but i heard bathrooms are grounded. and that is why they are on their own circuit. true?


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## phillipchristian (Mar 19, 2012)

oHsiN666 said:


> HEY~ i have a question. how about i get the 1000w dimmables, get 1000w bulbs. run everything at 600w, and if it does not produce like i think it should or could, i can then just switch it up to 1000w and be where i want to be. im not disagreeing with you by any means. i have been told a few times that 1000w is a little much for a 4x4. but a lot of grow books, and other growers DO advise using or say you can use a 1000w in a 4x4. i know a 1000w would be more efficient in a 6x6 tent or space. im mostly thinking about the future. 1 day, these tents will be gone, i will be in my own house, and then i will use 4 1000w in a 12x12 room. that is my ultimate goal!!! i also go by watts. i have heard 1g/watt is about average. in my head 600w is less then 1000w. my 1st set up involved a 1000w light and a light mover. how does that sound? i just hear my buddies grower getting 2.5 pounds from 2x1000w lights. in a 4x8 tent. is it safe to say that i could get 5 pounds out of a 4x8 with 2x600w lights? i have a pretty good feeling you will say "yes"!


Hey Oshi,

Since the RIU hack we lost a lot of the posts. Which room was yours again? I can't remember.

Running 1000w lights dimmed to 600w actually changes the color spectrum on them. I have read some research that says it is better to put in 600w bulbs if you are going to run your ballasts on a dimmed setting. If I were you I would get the 1000w dimmable ballasts but run them on 600w with 600w bulbs for now. If your space is ONLY 4x4 then I would say yes; go ahead and run a 1000w light. But if you are talking about stacking multiple lights in a 8x8 space then 4 1000w lights is a waste because 4 600w lights is more than enough.

I am not a big fan of light mover during flower. During veg maybe. I guess I am not a big fan of light movers period. I think they are best suited for situations where you have limitations (heat, money, electricity) and want to get the most you can out of the situation.

I honestly think 5lbs out of a 4x8 tent is gonna be real tough! Maybe if you did a SOG. Even then I don't think so. If your buddy has a 4x8 tent and is only getting 2.5lbs then he is pulling roughly .5g per watt. That's realistic. Experienced growers get 1-1.5 MAX. 5lbs out of a 4x8 tent with 2,000 watts is a little over 1.1g per watt. I think that is a stretch for a newer grower in a new environment.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 19, 2012)

oHsiN666 said:


> oh! 1 more question. you said they make a ballast that i can plug 2 600w lights into, correct? do they make the same ballast for 2x1000w lights? and if so, how many amps does that draw?
> 
> are bathrooms wired the same as other rooms. i know, it sounds like a dumb question, but i heard bathrooms are grounded. and that is why they are on their own circuit. true?


I've never seen a dual 1000w and Lumatek is the only dual 600w that I know off. That Lumatek has to be wired 240v so that's why it only draws 5.5 amps. A single 600w Lumatek draws 2.75 amps if it is wired 240v so you aren't saving any electricity by using them.

Bathrooms are usually wired the same as the rest of the house; with a sigle circuit (breaker) for that room. Usually 15-30 amps depending on your house. Kitchens are really the only rooms that normally have multiple circuits because of the high draw of appliances. Most homes have GFCI outlets in the kitchens and bathrooms because it is code in the U.S. and it is safe to have these outlets in areas where there is water or the possibility of water being spilled on the outlets.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 19, 2012)

I wanted to throw these back up here. I am not sure who I did some of them for.


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## Diesel89 (Mar 19, 2012)

Hey Philip I don't know if this is your line of work but I was wondering my options on a sealed tent setup for a 5x5 tent. I saw a post that is the style you run. Also what fans and hood would you say to use in that space. Any suggestions id appreciate


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## phillipchristian (Mar 19, 2012)

Diesel89 said:


> Hey Philip I don't know if this is your line of work but I was wondering my options on a sealed tent setup for a 5x5 tent. I saw a post that is the style you run. Also what fans and hood would you say to use in that space. Any suggestions id appreciate


Hey Diesel. It's not my line of work. I am a real estate developer. I build high end spec homes and condo developments in Central America. I have been growing for 12 years and built quite a few crazy setups for myself and helped a bunch of friends with it too. I just figured I'd give something back to the RIU community instead of just always taking.

Are you looking to use the whole tent for plants or do you need a little space for other equipment (a/c, dehumidifier, filter, etc...)? The hood really depends on what lights you'll be using. If you are using the whole space then I would say get a 1000w and a Magnum XXXL hood with a Can High Output 8" fan. If you need room for other things in the tent then a 600w light with any of the good Sun Sytem 6" hoods would be fine. Same brand of fan though. I like Can Fans and I have never had a problem with any of them. Let me know and I can draw something up for you. Also, what style of grow (SOG, SCGROG,trees, etc...), what size pots, how wide are your plants, how many in the tent, etc... The more info the better.

Not sure what post you are referring to but I don't run tents anymore. It's been 5 years since I even owned a tent and even then it was for clones/veg. This has been my room for the last 4 years.


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## hockey4848 (Mar 19, 2012)

*:I wish i had the funds to do this, but even if I did it would be legal in my state:

Have 72 plants total at all times (legal in my state).

18=clone tray
18= stage 1 veg under T5's
18= stage 2 veg under T5's
18= flowering under 12 XXXL hoods with 1,000 watt bulbs

Perpetual harvest every month.

How much square footage would this realistically take? Anyone ever build a room like this? 

going with the scrog method.
*


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## phillipchristian (Mar 19, 2012)

Those are some monster plants! 18 plants under 12,000w of light? You're growing 8' footers huh? 

Those hoods cover a 25sq.ft. area so that's 300sq.ft. just in plants in the flower. Probably need another 100sq.ft for other equipment and to get around. The probably another 200sq.ft for vegging, clones, and moms. Say 650-700sq.ft to be safe. Just a guess though. Would have to know all the equipment you are using to be specific. You would probably need 3-4 4ton a/c units.


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## hockey4848 (Mar 19, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Those are some monster plants! 18 plants under 12,000w of light? You're growing 8' footers huh?
> 
> Those hoods cover a 25sq.ft. area so that's 300sq.ft. just in plants in the flower. Probably need another 100sq.ft for other equipment and to get around. The probably another 200sq.ft for vegging, clones, and moms. Say 650-700sq.ft to be safe. Just a guess though. Would have to know all the equipment you are using to be specific. You would probably need 3-4 4ton a/c units.




three 4 ton a/c units?? Am I reading that correctly?? 

Are t5's the way to go for vegging the fastest? I have an extra 3 xxxl hoods laying around with some spare MH's..would that work better?

Would having 18 plants flowering under 12,000w of light even be efficient? Could I get them big enough in a month of vegging for it to even be worth while? The biggest 12 harvests you can get a year with 72 plants in the goal here.


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## phishtank (Mar 19, 2012)

....it would be pointless. The plants can only use so much light...and they will only flower for so long. If you vegged for a much longer period of time...then you could make use of those lights but would need to hang some bulbs vertical also to make it worth while. If you want 72 plants at all times....

12 clones veg stage 1 (seed or clone - 2 weeks)
12 clones veg stage 2 (2 weeks - 4 weeks)
48 plants in flower....so basically start 12 plants every 2 weeks...and by the time your first 12 come along you should be ready to bring 12 from veg to flower and have 12 clones rooting ready for veg. Nice perpetual 12 plants every 2 week harvest

(this is assuming that plants actually finish from start to end in 12 weeks.)


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## phillipchristian (Mar 19, 2012)

hockey4848 said:


> three 4 ton a/c units?? Am I reading that correctly??
> 
> Are t5's the way to go for vegging the fastest? I have an extra 3 xxxl hoods laying around with some spare MH's..would that work better?
> 
> Would having 18 plants flowering under 12,000w of light even be efficient? Could I get them big enough in a month of vegging for it to even be worth while? The biggest 12 harvests you can get a year with 72 plants in the goal here.


To cool all those 1000w lights in your flower room plus all of the lights yuou would need for moms, clones, and vegging plants. It would be around that much a/c. Unless you live in the mountains somewhere.

If you are trying to veg larger plants the MH bulbs are the way to go. Especially if you are trying to cycle them every 2 weeks.

I think Phishtank has it right. I was just going off what you said. If you are looking to do a perpetual harvest then you'll need to push plants every 2-3 weeks depending on the strain. Probably grow smaller plants too.


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## Diesel89 (Mar 19, 2012)

Hey phillip about my 5x5 tent. I want to have space to put one small fan for user canopy and also a dehumidifer..I as well was thinking 1k in xxxl hood with between 4-7 plants growing under a screen going for multi tops sog... I'm mostly meaning towards a hydro set up maybe coco I'm not set yet. Also ballast outside and ill veg and do clones outside this tent


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## Diesel89 (Mar 19, 2012)

Also do you have any experience in which fans produce less noise? I just bought a house the tent will go in a sub room of my office in the basement and I just wanna make sure I'm not hearing this all going on in my living room upstairs Haha


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## phillipchristian (Mar 19, 2012)

Hey Diesel, something like this should work. If you do hydro then keep your reservoir and any controller buckets out of the tent, under the table, or in the corner with the wall fan.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 19, 2012)

Diesel89 said:


> Also do you have any experience in which fans produce less noise? I just bought a house the tent will go in a sub room of my office in the basement and I just wanna make sure I'm not hearing this all going on in my living room upstairs Haha


Can fans are pretty good. You will only need a 6" hood and fan for that 1 light. Look at the Can 6" High Output fan. You can also reduce the noise they make by getting insulated ducting. You won't need much ducting so dropping a few extra bucks on the insulated kind would be worth it. Plus hang the fan freely from the ceiling of the tent. Less vibration is less noise.


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## Diesel89 (Mar 19, 2012)

Thanks a lot good sir! Would you run this set up sealed with co2? Or maybe down the road?


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## Diesel89 (Mar 19, 2012)

Thanks a lot good sir! Would you run this set up sealed with co2? Or maybe down the road? Hope you received the rep+


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## phillipchristian (Mar 19, 2012)

You won't need much Co2 in a space that size. If you don't like bottles look at the Hydro Innovations MiniGen. I have 1 in my clone room. They can be water cooled but don't need to be. Run on a propane tank and you can get it and the controller for it for around $400. Pretty simple to use. You can hang it from the ceiling of the tent; it weighs nothing. Then just suck air from outside through the lights and back outside. Not sure where the tent is going to be but if need be you can exhaust that hot air to a ceiling or out a window by just extending the ducting. If you are in a basement or a big room you won't even need to. The room will cool the exhaust air. Then get yourself a cheap 4" carbon filter/fan combo off ebay for like $50. Hang that in the corner of the room to scrub the air in the tent and exhaust it back into the tent. If you have heat issues then exhaust it out of the tent and open a port hole in the tent as a passive intake to bring in cold air from the basement.


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## ThorWho (Mar 22, 2012)

Hey Phillip, could you please help me set up my basement garden? In my last thread that you helped me with I stated that I wanted to use grow tents, but now I'm thinking something more permanent. In the next few days I have an electrician coming to rewire my basement and give me a nice new breaker box. Very soon I'll be able to legally possess up to 48 plants, and I'd like to set up a garden that I can harvest a few plants every couple weeks. I will have to start with a small set-up and add more equipment as I can save money, but I would like to construct my space with the intent to use four 600w lights in my flowering area, using both MH and HPS, and have an area for vegging as well as clones and mothers. I found someone I trust that I think will help building walls and more wiring if I need it.

I want to use subcool's super soil, and grow large plants. I have a 10,000btu window air conditioner and a fairly old dehumidifier to work with and that's about it. If I need to use the air conditioner it will have to be replaced by winter because the windows are at ground level and... well... snow.

Here's the basic layout of my basement, I'm considering using the back 15 feet of it for growing and space to work but I would like your opinion on how big it should be. The ceiling is 6 1/2'.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 22, 2012)

Hey bud, I'll get working on something right away. Just a few questions.

How tall are you growing your plants
What growing style do you use (SOG, SCROG, hydro, soil, flood tables, rdwc, etc...)
How will you vent your lights
How many moms do you have or need room for
What light will you use for moms. Clones. Veg.


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## ThorWho (Mar 22, 2012)

I have no real world experience here so I'm just going with what I think I need from some research. 4' tall plants, grown in organic soil with some lst and love, watered by hand. Air cooled hoods. I think I want four moms under T5s with clones, and a 600w mh for vegging.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 22, 2012)

got a couple ? for ya phil you can probablyhelp me with, first my dry ass 0% humidity basement turned into an 80% humidity room after the first rain im either A) gonna buy a portable AC for the basement. but rght now my girl is bitch n at and and making me wait. so whats a good dehumidifer for a 5x7x5 area thats pretty cheap its co2 sealed for most of the time but for 12 hours its venting out. i was thinking one of those 40$ mini dehu from home depot on only when sealed or some damprid but i dont know how effective damp rid is?


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## phishtank (Mar 22, 2012)

Quick question.....how possible would it be to pull 2 # from a 1000 watt light? Going between doing the 8 600W over the flood tables or doing 4 1000W with each light covering a 5X5 area. Still trying to figure out what I want to do...lol.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 22, 2012)

polyarcturus said:


> got a couple ? for ya phil you can probablyhelp me with, first my dry ass 0% humidity basement turned into an 80% humidity room after the first rain im either A) gonna buy a portable AC for the basement. but rght now my girl is bitch n at and and making me wait. so whats a good dehumidifer for a 5x7x5 area thats pretty cheap its co2 sealed for most of the time but for 12 hours its venting out. i was thinking one of those 40$ mini dehu from home depot on only when sealed or some damprid but i dont know how effective damp rid is?


Hey Poly, with dehumidifiers more than air conditioners you want a unit that runs efficiently because a dehumidifier produces heat. I would say a Danby or Sunpentown 30 pint would be perfect. Probably run you $100.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 22, 2012)

phishtank said:


> Quick question.....how possible would it be to pull 2 # from a 1000 watt light? Going between doing the 8 600W over the flood tables or doing 4 1000W with each light covering a 5X5 area. Still trying to figure out what I want to do...lol.


Basically you would need a little under 0.9g per watt to get 2lbs from a 1000w light. Very possible but you would need to change your layout to take advantage of the full footprint from the light. The flood tables would work still but you would have to change the payout of the plants on them. Move the plants toward to outside of the tables.


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## phishtank (Mar 22, 2012)

I'd have to use different tables. I plan on building tables so any size is fine. Figured 5X5 table would work well. Still might go with the original plant...just trying to plan out the most efficient use of everything.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 22, 2012)

you say the dehu over the portable ac? i though AC would be more useful as it cools the air as well as dehumidifies it. but i was looking at sunpentown im thinking im gonna go with the portable and go ahead and buy the big boy dehu anyways(later after AC). im gonna need them both in the end.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 22, 2012)

wont let me give some rep so i guess it will have to wait.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 22, 2012)

phishtank said:


> I'd have to use different tables. I plan on building tables so any size is fine. Figured 5X5 table would work well. Still might go with the original plant...just trying to plan out the most efficient use of everything.


4' tables will stil work. If you have plants on the outside then they will grow out to 5' if the main stem is at 4'. Just a thought.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 22, 2012)

polyarcturus said:


> you say the dehu over the portable ac? i though AC would be more useful as it cools the air as well as dehumidifies it. but i was looking at sunpentown im thinking im gonna go with the portable and go ahead and buy the big boy dehu anyways(later after AC). im gonna need them both in the end.


I just assumed you weren't going to be able to get the a/c right now. Also, you never mentioned any problems with heat. If you get a portable a/c just make usreit's one with an evaporation coil or at least that you have somewhere to drain it to. Draining the drip pans on those things can be tedious sometimes. Plus, if you are worried about humidity; remember that your a/c usually won't run during the dark cycle that much. Air cooled a/c units can only dehumidify when the condensor is on and the a/c is working. This means you coul have humidity spikes when the lights are off. Thanks for the intended +rep!


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## polyarcturus (Mar 22, 2012)

no problems with heat becase of experience, but a few minor switchs back to the way i run the room in the winter and my heeat will be perfect (with AC) and my lighting will be too.(right now i have a 400w dimmed to 250 and i added 2 t12 shop lights till i got a t5 fixture to replace it all for the summer months) and the humidity has settled, but like i said it not 100% sealed room so at night when vents are on the humidity only gets up to 54% its only when i seal it it jumps up to 80%
not worried about emptying or dripping water i usually take care of theses thing immediately.... good answer though and the only reson i wasnt buying the AC is not price but inconvenience if i spend a 100$ on the dehu i may well just save and spen 200$ on the AC. im just gonna hit up craigslist till i find a good portable AC for 100-200$ range (also i could convert my window AC to portable for about 50$ i was thinking dehumidifying would be easier never had humidity problems b4 and all my big grow rooms had plenty of AC) i have the money she will just bitch that i spent it, haha o well, its my money so she will have to deal with it. but at least i took her word into consideration it just not feasible to follow her advice, i will spend more money buying one piece at a time, over time. at least as far as something like this goes thx man


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## johnnymcpotts (Mar 22, 2012)

I wish your thread was up when I was building and setting up my rooms! This is great info! 

What's an effective footprint for a 600 watt HPS and 400 watt HPS? I'm looking at building 3x3ft scrog frames and am trying to figure out my setup. I've been thinking 6 set up 2, 2, 2 in line. 

Based on what you have seen on my thread any thoughts on how to make the most of what I've got?

Thanks for the help


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## johnnymcpotts (Mar 22, 2012)

Oh yeah + Rep!


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## phillipchristian (Mar 22, 2012)

johnnymcpotts said:


> I wish your thread was up when I was building and setting up my rooms! This is great info!
> 
> What's an effective footprint for a 600 watt HPS and 400 watt HPS? I'm looking at building 3x3ft scrog frames and am trying to figure out my setup. I've been thinking 6 set up 2, 2, 2 in line.
> 
> ...


Hey Johnny, Welcome Welcome!!

The OPTIMAL footprint for a 600w light is 4'x4' at 12" from the canopy. For a 400w light it is 3'x3' at 8" from the canopy. You can stretch that a little if you have lights next to eachother as their light will overlap on the sides that face eachother thus giving you an area with overlapping light from 2 different sources. Lumes and Footcandles are stackable.

Best of luck man. Let me know if you need anything bud.


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## MrStoney (Mar 26, 2012)

[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Hey Philip, I see that you are far more experienced in this field than I. I'm working with a room that is 5x8 with 8 feet of hieght. This room has ducting running to it from the attic and A/C works great. I would greatly appreciate it if you could possibly draw me something for these specs. I'm planning on (1) t5 that will eventually be changed to a 1000w hps, on roughly 8 plants. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.[/FONT]


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## phillipchristian (Mar 26, 2012)

MrStoney said:


> Hey Philip, I see that you are far more experienced in this field than I. I'm working with a room that is 5x8 with 8 feet of hieght. This room has ducting running to it from the attic and A/C works great. I would greatly appreciate it if you could possibly draw me something for these specs. I'm planning on (1) t5 that will eventually be changed to a 1000w hps, on roughly 8 plants. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.


Hey Stoney, welcome. Mind telling me where the door and any windows are at (i.e. 5' wall, south side)? Unless you are doing a SOG I'm pretty sure that a T5 won't handle 8 plants. If it is a SOG you are going to need a 6 or 8 bulb unit. Any other equipment in the room like fans, filters, etc..?


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## MrStoney (Mar 26, 2012)

Of course man. 8' walls on the north and south side with a door entering from north, 5' walls east and west. I most likely will be doing SOG. If need be I can always go with a larger unit. I will be placing a couple oscillating wall fans according to what i feel is necessary. Possibly a filter later down the road. Also, is it a bad idea to run ducting from my light to the attic(too cool?) thanks again!


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## phillipchristian (Mar 26, 2012)

Honestly Stoney, I don't think you really need my help. A T5 isn't going to produce enough heat to even worry about. Just hang it from the ceiling and put a table under it with the plants on them. You are not trying to seperate this room into a veg and flower room. Growing SOG with 8 plants you only need 1 oscillating fan and you don't need any ducting unless you get a carbon filter. Then you can just scrub the air and exhaust it right back into the room. I mean, I could draw up a plan for you but what would really be on it?


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## 400wattsallday (Mar 27, 2012)

phill will hook u up


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## 400wattsallday (Mar 27, 2012)

hey what do u think about t8s? i saw a 6 tube t8 at HD for 60$


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## MrStoney (Mar 27, 2012)

Well I guess all is well and I greatly appreciate the input, good man! Might be back for some questions down the road. Thanks.


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## goodro wilson (Mar 27, 2012)

I have a closet in my garage it's 5'x5'x8'
Until now I've been using only the back half of the closet 
Anyways I have a digital 600 hps/mh in a cooltube and an old 400hps With homemade cooltube
What I want to do Is reposition my lights so that the 600 covers the back area I've been growing in (5'x3')
and hang the 400 on the right front corner of the closet in a (2'x3)
My main question is will I get goOd enough light coverage or maybe need to add some 42w cfl to every corner?
Another question is the ducting that's hooked up to the lights (6inchduct and 4inch duct) well it's running out a hole I cut in the back right corner of the ceiling, but the hole is square .... Should I use tape or spray foam sealer stuff to seal the hole around the ducts?
I completed a grow as is but think if the room was a little more sealed it may be easier to keep temps steady(hard Bc of garage)
One last question is I have no intake and think my plants would benefit from it.... I almost always have the door cracked sometimes open and the crack under the door is pretty big even when I do close it but do you think I need intake? Or is the passive intake ok? Probably the only way I could get fresh air would be to run ducting from the vents in attic down into closet so I wanna final answer before I do seal it up(if I even have to) thanks for being so helpful buddy


Oh yeah my"exhaust fans" are two Stanley blowers that blow through the light and into attic
Only other fan is one of those tall skinny oscillating fans. What do u think?

Thought of another question.. Last two runs I crammed as many one gallon pots I could fit in the 5x3
They were pitcher containers so very tall and slim
Well now I have switched to 7gallon grow bags and already put supersoil in the bottom and filled them
22 fit in the 5x3 area .....so the question. Is when people say the footprint of the light does that really mean the number of plants don't matter as long as they r in the footprint


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## phillipchristian (Mar 27, 2012)

MrStoney said:


> Well I guess all is well and I greatly appreciate the input, good man! Might be back for some questions down the road. Thanks.


Feel free to stop by anytime with questions or comments. I'm always glad to help. Sorry, but it just seems pointless to draw a T5 in a room which is basically all you need.


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## MrStoney (Mar 27, 2012)

I completely understand the simplicity here, just the kinda guy the checks everything I can before screwing myself royally. I think your thread has helped me plenty already. Great info, I already +rep ya on this thread (won't let me again). Thanks for bringing something great to this community.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 27, 2012)

goodro wilson said:


> I have a closet in my garage it's 5'x5'x8'
> Until now I've been using only the back half of the closet
> Anyways I have a digital 600 hps/mh in a cooltube and an old 400hps With homemade cooltube
> What I want to do Is reposition my lights so that the 600 covers the back area I've been growing in (5'x3')
> ...


Hey bud, thanks for stopping by. I'll try and answer all of your questions.

It is the footprint of your light that determines how many plants you can fit under it. A 600w light has a footprint of 53"x53" so it almost perfectly covers the entire floorplan of your closet. If I were you I would line the walls with a reflective material (duct wrap, panda film, diamond foil, etc...) and make sure to rotate your plants every few days. This will make it so that your 600w light is enough for that space. You won't need to use the 400w, or the added electricity and cooling issues it brings. If you still want to use the 400w light then it is just an added bonus and can be placed anywhere inside the closet.

For the square port that you have I would just purchase a round flange and screw it into the wall around the hole. You can then attach your ducting right to it with tape or a worm clamp. 

Cooling all depends on your environment. Everyone is different. You really don't want to leave the door cracked during the dark cycle because light can turn your plants into hermies. If the passive intake from under the door is sufficient to cool the room then you will know after running the space for a while. If not then look into exhausting more air which will increase the air being taken in from under the door and create a higher turnover.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 27, 2012)

MrStoney said:


> I completely understand the simplicity here, just the kinda guy the checks everything I can before screwing myself royally. I think your thread has helped me plenty already. Great info, I already +rep ya on this thread (won't let me again). Thanks for bringing something great to this community.


Thanks man. I appreciate it. Glad to help anytime.


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## bigsexyshaned (Mar 27, 2012)

Hows it going man cool thread ya got goin on. So im pallid on starting up my two 54x98x78 grow tents. I'm running two digi 600 watt my/GPS in each and I'm air coolin em with a 424 cfm inline. Now I've never actually had an enclosed environment before like this so I have a few questions about the intake(passive or fan) and possibly an intake filter to controll possiblt problems with mold spores bugs etc??) I'm growing in soil and ill also need a watering/drain table of sorts. I was going to make one out of some 2x4s and plywood lined with panda film or a tarp with a simple pvc drain at the lower end of the table seeing as I will have one end of the table raised ill let gravity do its thing!! But please if you have any better ideas I'd love to hear em!


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## phillipchristian (Mar 27, 2012)

bigsexyshaned said:


> Hows it going man cool thread ya got goin on. So im pallid on starting up my two 54x98x78 grow tents. I'm running two digi 600 watt my/GPS in each and I'm air coolin em with a 424 cfm inline. Now I've never actually had an enclosed environment before like this so I have a few questions about the intake(passive or fan) and possibly an intake filter to controll possiblt problems with mold spores bugs etc??) I'm growing in soil and ill also need a watering/drain table of sorts. I was going to make one out of some 2x4s and plywood lined with panda film or a tarp with a simple pvc drain at the lower end of the table seeing as I will have one end of the table raised ill let gravity do its thing!! But please if you have any better ideas I'd love to hear em!


Glad to help man. Welcome to the thread. What questions do you have about intakes in specific. A lot will depend on your temps where the tents are. But with 2 600w lights in each tent I don't see you needing more than 1-2 passive intakes per tent. If you are looking to filter that air then you will have to make it an active intake though. For blocking pests, mold, spores, and pathogens you really want a HEPA filter. Something like one of these (http://www.greners.com/i/fans-ventilation-filters/filters-odor/hepa-filters.html) paired with an inline fan. The drain on your table sounds fine. Just would need to make sure you raise your tables off the ground enough so that you can angle the drain out of the tent and into whatever drain you have in the room. Don't want to have water sitting in the drains of your trays; leads to some funky stuff.


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## MYWhat? (Mar 27, 2012)

Hey phillipchristian what CAD program are you using? 

I also build real nice homes or did before the maket collapsed. So I know you definitely have a vast knowledge of how to build just about anything you put your mind too. 

Nice to see folks sharing that knowledge !!


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## phillipchristian (Mar 27, 2012)

MYWhat? said:


> Hey phillipchristian what CAD program are you using?
> 
> I also build real nice homes or did before the maket collapsed. So I know you definitely have a vast knowledge of how to build just about anything you put your mind too.
> 
> Nice to see folks sharing that knowledge !!


Hey bud, I'm a developer of high end spec homes so we use the new 3D AutoCad software for actual construction and design. On here I'm just using a program called Smart Draw. It's a lot easier to just sketch things out in it. Everything I've learned in building has helped so much when designing rooms. Even some of the stuff we incorporate into our homes are starting to find their way into the rooms I build. It's cool.

Thanks for stopping by.


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## goodro wilson (Mar 28, 2012)

Thanks Phil honestly I never even thought of using the 600 for the whole floors pace I've heard people say 5x5 3x3 but I guess where u mostly shed ur light was on rotating the plants I used to do that but got away from it anyways I think I'll still use the 400 but prolly in a different room(my ol lady will love this!) haha thanks for ur input ur very helpful forums are great Bc a lot of genius people grow weed apparently hell if u ask me we r the ONLY smart ones 
Anyways thanks again thats part of what this hobby is about teaching others


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## The Scooby Master (Mar 28, 2012)

What software did you use to make the growroom diagrams?


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## phillipchristian (Mar 28, 2012)

The Scooby Master said:


> What software did you use to make the growroom diagrams?


Smart Draw Pro


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## TheGreenHornet (Mar 28, 2012)

P.C. you are the man. I will definitely be using this thread with increasing frequency over the next two months.

Is it safe to run a 30 amp box and line at 100% capacity? I might use 6-600's instead of 4, with two vertical / supplemental MH for flower.

Ima draw out a pretty diagram like yalls and get back here stat


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## phishtank (Mar 28, 2012)

It's definitely not safe to run that 30 amp breaker at 100%. Even if you over-sized the wiring any tiny surge in power the ballasts are pulling will flip the breaker constantly.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 28, 2012)

TheGreenHornet said:


> P.C. you are the man. I will definitely be using this thread with increasing frequency over the next two months.
> 
> Is it safe to run a 30 amp box and line at 100% capacity? I might use 6-600's instead of 4, with two vertical / supplemental MH for flower.
> 
> Ima draw out a pretty diagram like yalls and get back here stat


Hey bud, thanks for stopping by and welcome. You only want to run a circuit at 75-80% capacity. So a 30 amp breaker shouldn't have more than 23-24 amps on it. You could go as high as 26 amps MAX if you HAD to.


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## LiquidGTX (Mar 29, 2012)

Hey phil, you seem to have the knowledge and answers i've been looking for. What can i expect in terms of breakers in an older home my wife and I are buying? I have not had a chance to take a flashlight over to the basement and spend time on the breaker box. I guess my question is what can i do to get a dedicated circuit without paying a fortune for an electrician to come in. If it helps i plan to put in a 1000w digital ballast, and add 2 600w in the future. Ill run a CF and 8 in inline through the hoods. The plants will be put in soil, subcool's recipe, and grown in 7 gallon pots. I believe the area space is 12x15 with the water heater and ac in a small room in the corner. I plan to keep 1 mother, 12 in veg if they'll fit and 24 in flower (harvest every 4 weeks). I have yet to get my pots down there and space them out to see how the room fairs. I know ill have to add a an ac at some point. If this all makes sense do you have any pointers?

Mostly concerned with the electrical as previously i only had 1 lamp to worry about and 2-3 plants so odor control and the fans were not an issue?

Will i be able to use the lights to there full potential in that space?


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## phillipchristian (Mar 29, 2012)

LiquidGTX said:


> Hey phil, you seem to have the knowledge and answers i've been looking for. What can i expect in terms of breakers in an older home my wife and I are buying? I have not had a chance to take a flashlight over to the basement and spend time on the breaker box. I guess my question is what can i do to get a dedicated circuit without paying a fortune for an electrician to come in. If it helps i plan to put in a 1000w digital ballast, and add 2 600w in the future. Ill run a CF and 8 in inline through the hoods. The plants will be put in soil, subcool's recipe, and grown in 7 gallon pots. I believe the area space is 12x15 with the water heater and ac in a small room in the corner. I plan to keep 1 mother, 12 in veg if they'll fit and 24 in flower (harvest every 4 weeks). I have yet to get my pots down there and space them out to see how the room fairs. I know ill have to add a an ac at some point. If this all makes sense do you have any pointers?
> 
> Mostly concerned with the electrical as previously i only had 1 lamp to worry about and 2-3 plants so odor control and the fans were not an issue?
> 
> Will i be able to use the lights to there full potential in that space?


Hey Liquid, thanks for stopping by.

If it is an older home then you could have a number of different electrical hookups. It could be anything from an old 60amp fuse box to an upgraded 200amp breaker panel. You really need to look at the loadcenter and see what it is and how many amps it has. Homes are usually wired electrically by zones so that means that the most likely all of the existing outlets in your grow area are all on 1 circuit; probably 15-20amps. If you are running your light at 120v then it is pulling between 9 and 10amps depending on the ballast. Since your grow room is in the basement and you said that your loadcenter is down there too then it really isn't going to be hard for you to wire an additional outlet to that area. If you can take a picture of the loadcenter (breaker panel/fuse box) and post it on here then that would help alot. Also, if it is a breaker panel then take the cover off and take a picture of that as well. Also, try and figure out which fuse/breaker is for the outlets in your grow area. Most likely you'll be able to wire something yourself with a little help from me for less than $100. 

You can PM me if you want.


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## LiquidGTX (Mar 29, 2012)

Thank you phil, Next time the realtor lets us in for our final showing ill be sure to take some nice pictures of the breaker box i saw in the basement. Im a mechanical person so ill definitely be asking around for help. I've looked into 100 amp dual breakers (my understanding its 2 50 amp breakers on #8? wire?) but ill be sure to ask a 100 questions so that electricity is not my problem and i can focus on the one thing most important. The plants!


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## phillipchristian (Mar 29, 2012)

LiquidGTX said:


> Thank you phil, Next time the realtor lets us in for our final showing ill be sure to take some nice pictures of the breaker box i saw in the basement. Im a mechanical person so ill definitely be asking around for help. I've looked into 100 amp dual breakers (my understanding its 2 50 amp breakers on #8? wire?) but ill be sure to ask a 100 questions so that electricity is not my problem and i can focus on the one thing most important. The plants!


Glad to help bud. One thing though; you won't need 100amps in your grow room inless you are putting in 6,000w of lighting. A dual breaker is just 2 breakers that fit into 1 slot on your breaker panel. Each breaker would still require their own #8 or #6 line depending on the distance or the wiring run. If you are somewhat handy then I can walk you through the process fairly easily. Having pictures of the panel with the cover off is your first step. Just post here or send me a PM when you get that.


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## TheGreenHornet (Mar 29, 2012)

Here are my thoughts.. I did some math and I just cant afford the 6 600's. I am going to have to go with 4 for now and see what happens.




I was also wondering, the subpanel I need is around 100 bucks right?


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## myblocc (Mar 30, 2012)

I need help i have a 15x10 room with 11 lights. only 5 lights are on and its already 93degree...i have an 12" fantech (intake) and 12" fantech on carbon filter for exhaust...


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## phillipchristian (Mar 30, 2012)

TheGreenHornet said:


> Here are my thoughts.. I did some math and I just cant afford the 6 600's. I am going to have to go with 4 for now and see what happens.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2097748
> ...


Hey bud, I think the subpanel you'll need for that room will only cost you around $40-$50. I think you can wire the whole thing with breakers, outlets, etc... for around $150-$200.

You are wasting a lot of money on inline fans and duct boosting fans; plus the way you have it laid out is extremely inefficient. If I were you I would get 8" hoods if you are going to be trying to pull air through all 4 hoods with 1 fan. Lose all of the inline booster fans cause you won't need them. You have two options. One is to pull air from outside directly through your hoods and then exhaust it back outside. The just have the carbon filter and fan setup to recirculate the air in the room. Your lights will probably run much cooler this way. The other option is like what you have. Pull air through the carbon filter, then through the lights and exhaust it outside. In either scenario you'll only need 1 fan to do this. Purchase a quality 10" inline fan (Can Fan High Output or Max Fan) and use a duct reducer at the fan to connect your 8" ducting from the hood to the fan. Then use 10" ducting on the exhaust side of the fan. Use the fan to pull air through the hoods and exhaust it outside. You don't need (or want) a fan right after the carbon filter and you won't need the inline boosters.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 30, 2012)

myblocc said:


> I need help i have a 15x10 room with 11 lights. only 5 lights are on and its already 93degree...i have an 12" fantech (intake) and 12" fantech on carbon filter for exhaust...


How many watts are your lights? You only have 1 fan for all 11? How many curves are in your ducting? Are you pushing air through your carbon filter?


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## phillipchristian (Mar 30, 2012)

myblocc said:


> I need help i have a 15x10 room with 11 lights. only 5 lights are on and its already 93degree...i have an 12" fantech (intake) and 12" fantech on carbon filter for exhaust...


I just read your other thread and now I am super confused. You need to explain exactly how your room is setup cause I don't understand.


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## myblocc (Mar 30, 2012)

hey phillip..so i have 3 rooms. each room has an carbonfilter with fan attached. they are Y connected to exit an 12in


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## phillipchristian (Mar 30, 2012)

myblocc said:


> hey phillip..so i have 3 rooms. each room has an carbonfilter with fan attached. they are Y connected to exit an 12in


Is each room 15x10 or the whole space is 15x10? If so, then how big is each room. Do you have any air conditioning or fresh air intakes? How many watts are your ballasts? What size is are your hoods (6" or 8")? Are your hoods wunning in straight lines? Do they then connect to "Y" ducts and duct reducers/expanders before connecting to the 1 fan? Is the fan pulling the air from all 3 rooms? What other fans do you have and where are they?

You really need to explain the situation a lot better.


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## myblocc (Mar 30, 2012)

here is what it looks like


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## myblocc (Mar 30, 2012)

sorry for not explaining so well so the 2 small rooms are about 8x10 and are freshed air with an 12in fantech that are (Y) to each of the 2 small rooms. the main room is pulling in fresh air from a 12in fantech. the hoods are not cooled air yet. basically a friend was helping me and fucked it up and left me


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## phillipchristian (Mar 30, 2012)

myblocc said:


> View attachment 2097802here is what View attachment 2097802it looks likeView attachment 2097802


Ok, I see your problem. You have the ducting setup all wrong. You should have fans after the "Y" ducts an not before. You are pushing to much air through the ducts and not pulling enough. Is there anyway you can make additional exhaust holes in the walls? Also, can you give me the room dimensions so I can draw up an example for you?


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## myblocc (Mar 30, 2012)

my main room is too hot and would like to know how to cool it down. its at 93. is it because i (Y) the exhaust exiting 12in?


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## myblocc (Mar 30, 2012)

so the two back rooms are 8x10. main room 15x10. well im trying to exhaust everything to 1 hole. i should add a fan at the end ? let me draw a better picture


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## phillipchristian (Mar 30, 2012)

myblocc said:


> sorry for not explaining so well so the 2 small rooms are about 8x10 and are freshed air with an 12in fantech that are (Y) to each of the 2 small rooms. the main room is pulling in fresh air from a 12in fantech. the hoods are not cooled air yet. basically a friend was helping me and fucked it up and left me


Your friend REALLY fucked it up. Can you draw me something a little more detailed? Show me where the lights are and what wattage they are? Show me the carbon filter, show me the size of the ports on your hoods as well.


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## phillipchristian (Mar 30, 2012)

Can you put holes in the walls? Do you have any kind of a/c or fresh air coming in to the rooms? Are you hoods just pulling air from the room through the filter and exhausting that?


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## myblocc (Mar 30, 2012)




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## myblocc (Mar 30, 2012)

hope the pictures work...no ac...if you see intake thats pulling in fresh air. didnt cool the lights yet because as you see the lights set up is mess up...


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## tehgenoc1de (Mar 30, 2012)

The first ever 0001 watt lights! 

Those _are _messed up.


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## pencap (Apr 1, 2012)

ok hey thanks for replying to my post so fast...I was thinking 4 lights in the 15x15 area,( was leaning on 600's) if ya think I can get 6sq out of each 1k lamp I'll be ok. I'm gonna modify the AC's return air. The "thermostat" on a ac unit works from the temps around it's return air. I plan to duct the Return Air (RA) directly into the grow room at about 6ft high, So temperatures from bulbs/ wont be a problem (no inline ducting from lamps) My Vent air is going to be a 10 inch hole cut into the ceiling of the rooms closet/roof of the house, pushed out by a separate "box" fan, but most likely a squirrell cage, I'll put a mini turbine on the roof so it dont look strange. I'll be out in the country so smell is not a problem either. Honestly bro, I've got most of the bugs worked out prior.....ha ha I've had 4 years to build this in my head while in prison. I even took a HVAC class for the sole purpose of temp and vent control!! The only real true questions i have left are on Co2. What kind of regulator, how the hell do you hook up a timer to a Co2 tank/reg? How much will I need to pump into the room and at what intervals. Wilth out foreknowledge of what temps on 4 1k lamps will be how can I determine co2 usage? 
I'll be growing DWC/ Deep Water Culture but that's neither here nor there to do with temps and co2 useage. I mean Co2 is just an option and I understand it can increase yeilds up to 15-20% I'll go turn the dam vlave on high for a few seconds each hour if I have to~ we still havent nailed co2 into the equation...yet...


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## phillipchristian (Apr 1, 2012)

pencap said:


> ok hey thanks for replying to my post so fast...I was thinking 4 lights in the 15x15 area,( was leaning on 600's) if ya think I can get 6sq out of each 1k lamp I'll be ok. I'm gonna modify the AC's return air. The "thermostat" on a ac unit works from the temps around it's return air. I plan to duct the Return Air (RA) directly into the grow room at about 6ft high, So temperatures from bulbs/ wont be a problem (no inline ducting from lamps) My Vent air is going to be a 10 inch hole cut into the ceiling of the rooms closet/roof of the house, pushed out by a separate "box" fan, but most likely a squirrell cage, I'll put a mini turbine on the roof so it dont look strange. I'll be out in the country so smell is not a problem either. Honestly bro, I've got most of the bugs worked out prior.....ha ha I've had 4 years to build this in my head while in prison. I even took a HVAC class for the sole purpose of temp and vent control!! The only real true questions i have left are on Co2. What kind of regulator, how the hell do you hook up a timer to a Co2 tank/reg? How much will I need to pump into the room and at what intervals. Wilth out foreknowledge of what temps on 4 1k lamps will be how can I determine co2 usage?
> I'll be growing DWC/ Deep Water Culture but that's neither here nor there to do with temps and co2 useage. I mean Co2 is just an option and I understand it can increase yeilds up to 15-20% I'll go turn the dam vlave on high for a few seconds each hour if I have to~ we still havent nailed co2 into the equation...yet...


Hey pencap, thanks for stopping by. First off your lighting should be planned around the footprint of your plants; not your rooom. Let's say you are growing big plants that will need a 2x2 footprint for each one and you want to do 2 rows 6 plants. That means the footprint of your plants will be 4x12. That is perfect for 3 600w lamps (4x4 each). A 1000w will only get 6x6 if it's surrounded by 1000w lamps. Plan on 5x5 and anything extra is just icing on the cake. 

With that many lights not being vented you had better have more than your central a/c blowing in that room. Look into a portable a/c maybe. That will not be enough cooling as you have it laid out; unless I am missing something.

With Co2; you get a valve and also get a sensor/controller. The sensor will tell the valve when to open and close. Then plug it all into a timer to shutoff when the lights go off and to come on 30 minutes before the lights do. If you are venting your room with an exhaust fan you are going to be wasting Co2 but I wouldn't worry about it.


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## zmansmoke (Apr 1, 2012)

Hey Phil 
this what i have my room is 10'w by 14'L by 8'h with a window 3' by 3'
Already have the following and ready to flower 
14 3 gallon
2 magnam xxxl 1000 hps
1 box fan
2 16" fans


my last run did not have a exaust fan last few weeks i had pm


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## phillipchristian (Apr 1, 2012)

zmansmoke said:


> Hey Phil
> this what i have my room is 10'w by 14'L by 8'h with a window 3' by 3'
> Already have the following and ready to flower
> 14 3 gallon
> ...


Hey bud, thanks for stopping by. What would you like me to do? You want a layout for the room? How wide are your plants going to be at the end of flower (footprint of each plant approximately)? Sounds like you have PLENTY of lighting. Where are the doors and windows of the room? Do you have a dehumidifier? That can help a lot with PM. What is the humidity in the room?


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## kingleroyone (Apr 1, 2012)

ok i have a 10x6 flower room how many lights should i use 1000's or 600's 3 lights or 2, dirt pot or rockwell or buckets drip system or flood and drain,anyone


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## phillipchristian (Apr 1, 2012)

kingleroyone said:


> ok i have a 10x6 flower room how many lights should i use 1000's or 600's 3 lights or 2, dirt pot or rockwell or buckets drip system or flood and drain,anyone


Ok. Well exactly how big is your "plant" space? I knnow your room is 10x6 but how much of that space actually has plants? How tall is your ceiling as well?


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## kamie (Apr 3, 2012)

hey phillip, i have 2 4x4x6 tents with 6 in blockbuster hoods. i was wondering if there was a way to use one exhaust fan for both tents? i'll be using 1k ballasts dimmed down to 600. should i just get a carbon filter and fan for each tent? also its right next to my veg room which already has a 10 in filter and fan for exhaust.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 3, 2012)

Hey, thanks for stopping by. If you can line up the vent holes on the tents then you should have no problem running the air for your lights through both tents and then exhausting it out the last tent. You are probably going to have to get a carbon filter for both tents though. For tents that size you can pretty much get away with a small filter/fan combo; a 4" fan would be fine for each.

One suggestion is not to run 1000w bulbs dimmed to 600w. You are better of running a 600w bulb with the ballast dimmed. Running an HID bulb to a dimmed setting actual changes the spectrum of the bulb.


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## Wordz (Apr 3, 2012)

I have a 2x2x4 spot with 76 watts cfl and a box fan exhausting through dryer sheets. I planted 65 seeds but they all turned yellow and died a week or so later. Should I add an ona block so the plants don't all die?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 3, 2012)

Wordz

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## hellraizer30 (Apr 3, 2012)

Hey wordz stop trolling phillip thread!


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## kamie (Apr 4, 2012)

hey phillip would this work? http://www.amazon.com/LED-Wholesalers-GYO2306-Hydroponic-Scrubber/dp/B0050HSL4U/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333520302&sr=8-2 
should i get a duct booster for the hood too? can i use a 8 in exhaust fan connect to a Y connector to exhaust the air from both carbon filters in each tent?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 4, 2012)

kamie said:


> hey phillip would this work? http://www.amazon.com/LED-Wholesalers-GYO2306-Hydroponic-Scrubber/dp/B0050HSL4U/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333520302&sr=8-2
> should i get a duct booster for the hood too? can i use a 8 in exhaust fan connect to a Y connector to exhaust the air from both carbon filters in each tent?


Hey bud, I really can't comment as to whether that stuff will work. I'm sorry but all that stuff on eBay, Amazon, etc... just looks super cheap to me and from what I have heard and seen it all ends up turning to shit within a few months. I only buy high end equipment. I am not trying to be a dick; I just feel that quality may cost twice as much bit it will last 4 times as long. If you are on a budget i totally understand and therefore that filter looks is might even be too big for what you need. I would get the 4" (http://www.amazon.com/LED-wholesalers-Hydroponic-Scrubber-GYO2305/dp/B005HT0GZ8/ref=pd_sbs_hg_5) and like you said connect it to a "Y" duct; but get a reducer. They make "Y" ducts that have 2 4" ports and a 6" port. You can find them on most of the bigger online hydro stores like Greners or Monster Gardens. Then get a good 6" fan to pull the air through the 2 filters.

Don't wast your money on a duct booster fan. They are crap for the most part. If you are running the ducting in a straight line then you will be fine. Just get a good 6" fan. Even if you aren't running the ducting perfectly straight then I would just get a high output 6" inline fan like the CAN Fan and you'll be fine.


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## kamie (Apr 4, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Hey bud, I really can't comment as to whether that stuff will work. I'm sorry but all that stuff on eBay, Amazon, etc... just looks super cheap to me and from what I have heard and seen it all ends up turning to shit within a few months. I only buy high end equipment. I am not trying to be a dick; I just feel that quality may cost twice as much bit it will last 4 times as long. If you are on a budget i totally understand and therefore that filter looks is might even be too big for what you need. I would get the 4" (http://www.amazon.com/LED-wholesalers-Hydroponic-Scrubber-GYO2305/dp/B005HT0GZ8/ref=pd_sbs_hg_5) and like you said connect it to a "Y" duct; but get a reducer. They make "Y" ducts that have 2 4" ports and a 6" port. You can find them on most of the bigger online hydro stores like Greners or Monster Gardens. Then get a good 6" fan to pull the air through the 2 filters.
> 
> Don't wast your money on a duct booster fan. They are crap for the most part. If you are running the ducting in a straight line then you will be fine. Just get a good 6" fan. Even if you aren't running the ducting perfectly straight then I would just get a high output 6" inline fan like the CAN Fan and you'll be fine.


Thanks phillip, I'm trying to be on a budget but im with ya on getting the high end equipment. these 2 tents are actually for doing some testing on 600w lights and trying out SOG. if i was to go 1k watts instead would the filter and fan still be okay? i might just end up getting the max fan and 2 can lite filters


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## phillipchristian (Apr 4, 2012)

kamie said:


> Thanks phillip, I'm trying to be on a budget but im with ya on getting the high end equipment. these 2 tents are actually for doing some testing on 600w lights and trying out SOG. if i was to go 1k watts instead would the filter and fan still be okay? i might just end up getting the max fan and 2 can lite filters


If you are gonna throw the cash down get a CAN 6" High Output Fan and 2 CAN 33 Filters. You can probably get a deal on them if you talk to the online shops or your local guys. Figure at least 10-15% off the listed price. Whether you run at 1000w or 600w the filter size won't need to change. Filters are sized based on cubic feet, not light wattage.

I wouldn't run your tents on 1000w if I were you. You are going to create heat issues in that small of a space. Plus a 600w light has the perfect footprint for a 4x4 tent anyway.


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## Trulife69 (Apr 4, 2012)

I need some more pointers on how to control odor from portable a/c. I have a 10000 BTU Portable A/C with a single 4" duct hose to exhaust heat . Hate ducting to window,just reaks outside. I was wondering if a heavy duty 50 gallon barrel with a sealed lid would work...? Duct 4" ac exhaust into the 50 gallon barrel. Cut a 6" or 8" hole in lid for carbon filter to fit inside barrel. Then duct to chimney with an inline fan...so basically a/c would exhaust heat into the 50 gallon barrel and the carbon filter would pull it to the chimney up and out. That sound like a bad idea?? I think my ac on high airflow puts out 350 cfm but im not sure what the a/c would exhaust through the duct..maybe the same?? Would the inline fan attached to carbon filter in the barrel have to match the cfms the portable a/c is exhausting? Would it be harder of the a/c if the inline fan had more cfms than what the ac is exhausting? Let me know if this makes sense. And if you have any other ideas let me know,Im trying to find the easiest way possible but either way its gotta be done.
Thanks
oh heres a little stoned diagram haha


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## phillipchristian (Apr 4, 2012)

Trulife69 said:


> I need some more pointers on how to control odor from portable a/c. I have a 10000 BTU Portable A/C with a single 4" duct hose to exhaust heat . Hate ducting to window,just reaks outside. I was wondering if a heavy duty 50 gallon barrel with a sealed lid would work...? Duct 4" ac exhaust into the 50 gallon barrel. Cut a 6" or 8" hole in lid for carbon filter to fit inside barrel. Then duct to chimney with an inline fan...so basically a/c would exhaust heat into the 50 gallon barrel and the carbon filter would pull it to the chimney up and out. That sound like a bad idea?? I think my ac on high airflow puts out 350 cfm but im not sure what the a/c would exhaust through the duct..maybe the same?? Would the inline fan attached to carbon filter in the barrel have to match the cfms the portable a/c is exhausting? Would it be harder of the a/c if the inline fan had more cfms than what the ac is exhausting? Let me know if this makes sense. And if you have any other ideas let me know,Im trying to find the easiest way possible but either way its gotta be done.
> Thanks
> oh heres a little stoned diagram haha


By using the carbon filter and fan you will in turn actually be sucking air through the a/c unit which will shorten the life of your portable a/c. It's like grinding the gears on a car. If it's at all possible just duct the a/c directly to the chimney. Then use some carbon filter pads to filter the exhaust before it goes into the chimney.


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## Trulife69 (Apr 4, 2012)

if i wanted to do that would i just need to find an inline fan that matches the cfms from ac exhaust? I am wanting to duct my hps lights and portable ac out the 6" hole in the chimney. the chimney is to far from grow room to duct straight to it. i Tried using carbon filter pads before the window but didnt work. Do you have any idea how many cfm a portable ac would exhaust??


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## phillipchristian (Apr 4, 2012)

I would imagine that it would be pretty hard to determine the cfm of the exhaust on one of those a/c units. Plus, what happens when the a/c shuts off? Why not just stick the exhaust hose inside of 6" ducting and run the 6" ducting to the chimney. If you are blowing out the chimney I don't think you need to filter it that much.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 4, 2012)

Dam phillip just took the time to read through your thread! And wow nice work and riu and its members are lucky to have you
On board  keep doing your thing man!


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## phillipchristian (Apr 4, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Dam phillip just took the time to read through your thread! And wow nice work and riu and its members are lucky to have you
> On board  keep doing your thing man!


Hey Hellraizer. Welcome Welcome!! Thank you for the compliment. Just trying to do my part.


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## Trulife69 (Apr 4, 2012)

I guess i could always go to straight to attick and then run an inline fan and scrubber up there. I just think the barrel idea would work...that way I could duct ac and light at a "y" and then run to chimney and would take care of smell. just going straight into the chimney does not solve the problem. Thanks for the help,I think im gonna try the barrel and maybe just get a smaller cfm inline fan. Wouldn't you think if an a/c claims on low speed it blows at 200 cfm,wouldn't it exhaust at 200 cfm as well? thats a good point when it shuts off...But if I left the spicket open all the time or had a smaller hole at the bottom of the barrel it would be pulling in air through the hole and might work...Heres an idea...If I made a hole on the side of barrel below the 4" ac exhaust duct maybe 3" hole...it would probably scrub part of the chimney room which would be perfect for harvest during the stank.


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## Trulife69 (Apr 4, 2012)

Thanks for the replys phillip. I got couple weeks to figure this out so Im exploring all options and just need to get er done ha.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 4, 2012)

I was just thinking that. I mean if you are gonna run the carbon filter 24/7 then just put a few holes in the bucket and you will always have negative pressure in there. I think that might work.


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## Trulife69 (Apr 4, 2012)

I will try it out and ill keep ya posted.who knows could be a waste haha. Probably within 2 weeks. Thanks for the help


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## kamie (Apr 4, 2012)

hey phillip, so i was putting in the hoods into the tent and realized theres only a 6 in vent hole on the left wall and a 6 in vent hole on the top. originally i thought there was 6 in vent hole on both left and right walls so i can just connect the ducting to both so i can aircool both hoods.. should i duct the carbon filter through hood in tent 1 to the outside to the Y connector and then do the same for tent 2? its alot of curveness. u think the 6 in max fan would still work? if you have a different way im up for it too. i already bought both the can 33 and 6 in max fan. i can still take it back to the store to exchange


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## phillipchristian (Apr 4, 2012)

Hook up the carbon filter to each hood. Hook up 1 fan on the otherside of each hood. Suck air through the carbon filter, then through the hood, then exhaust it out of the tent. 2 independent systems. Then you have created negative pressure in the tent which will help with cooling. Just make sure to let your fan run even when the lights are off.


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## vertigo me (Apr 4, 2012)

Hey Phillip i would like to make my first post on this forum commending you on your vast knowledge and assistance to the other members...

I am hoping you can make a growroom plan to suit my needs and hopefully give me some other advice.
I will start with the room its 8' x 8' x 8' it is a south facing bedroom. See below for room.
From my research i am attempting to grow 20 plants 3 ft tall avg in a 5 x 8 area of the room (this is what i think is the right space needed) also i was looking at using 2 or 3 600s 2 lightwould be ideal but i will run 3 if needed to getter a better yield. For the exhaust fan i was looking at 250-300 cfm (is this correct as i calculated growing space not total room space) which will be going directly out the window and the intake is coming from a hole in the ceiling going into a t bend and ducting going along wither sides of the ceiling dropping either side to the floor. Im unsure to go passive or agressive intake for the setup taking into account UK climates, . I was also considering a temperature controller unit to keep optimum temp dont know if i am over complicationg things so hopefully from what i have given you can come up with a tweaked or a grow room plan more suited.

Also i am no electricial there is one Doudble socket in the room will this be ok to run everything without problems ?

Eagerly await your respone Thanks


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## phillipchristian (Apr 4, 2012)

vertigo me said:


> Hey Phillip i would like to make my first post on this forum commending you on your vast knowledge and assistance to the other members...
> 
> I am hoping you can make a growroom plan to suit my needs and hopefully give me some other advice.
> I will start with the room its 8' x 8' x 8' it is a south facing bedroom. See below for room.
> ...


Hey Vertigo, thanks for stopping by and for the kind words. Welcome to RIU.

There are some issues with your layout and planning but I think we can get them fixed. First thing is your electrical. If there is only 1 outlet in the room then chances are that that outlet is shared with outlets in the hallway or another room next door. Would you know how many amps that circuit is rated for? I am not familiar with UK electrical standards but I do believe you are 240v there. This being said I would also assume that you are using 15amp breakers for household outlets. You will need to check the breaker panel and see which breaker or fuse is controlling that outlet. Simply plug something into it and turn the light on in the room. Flip breakers till you see that the outlet shuts off. You may notice the light in the room shuts off as well. Check other outlets and equipment in the area to see if that breaker also controls them. Make a not as to the rated amps for that breaker. You will find the number 10 or 15 or 20, etc... on the handle for the breaker. If you can it would help a lot if you could take a picture of the breaker panel and distinguish which breaker is controlling that outlet.

Chances are you are going to have to add an additional outlet to that room or look into using less wattage. A 600w ballast pulls around 2.7amps at 240v. This means you will be pulling just over 8amps with just your ballasts and you will still have to put fans, dehumidifiers, pumps, a/c, etc... on that circuit. I am not sure if that "Electrical Positioning" space on your diagram is the actual breaker panel; if so then you are in luck because wiring your room will be easy then. 

I am assuming that this entire space is meant to be a flower room? Do you already have a veg room or are you planning on doing both in this room? If so then I assume you will be growing from seed everytime because you will not be able to have your clones/moms in the same room as your flowering plants. Can you ecplain to me your plan in regards to this. If you need a room for veg then we have to design something into this space.

Chances are you are going to need an a/c unit. Running 1800w of light in a space that big is going to create some heat that probably can not be dealt with via an active or passive intake and exhausting the hoods. The issue I see with your intake is that it is coming from the attic. Attic air; especially in the summer; can be extremely hot. Uing that air to cool your room could be counter productive. The other issue that I see is that you will be exhasting 3 hoods through 1 vent to the window. this would be fine if you hade them in a straight line but as you have then setup I do not believe a 6" fan will have enough CFM to compensate for the curves in the ducting. Even a high output fan. You may want to look into either using a large fan and a duct reducer or oversizing a portable a/c unit and venting the hoods back into the room.

I am also confused about your Carbon Filter. Do you have it inline with the exhaust from your hoods? Are you planning on pulling room air through your hoods and then exhausting that? I would just attach the carbon filter to a fan and mount it from the ceiling. Have it exhaust directly back into the room or into the attic to create some passive intake from under the door or via a port you construct somewhere.

I know it's a lot to think about but feel free to keep the questions coming.


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## vertigo me (Apr 4, 2012)

Thanks for the speedy reply. I will check about the electrics for you and get back to you ASAP, the point i marked is where i was looking at mounting the sockets etc and not the breaker panel.

As for my vegging and clone/mom room i am using another room for this which will be 7x10x8. 

I aggree with you about the attic so can you think of another way of getting fresh air in? What about through the window and venting it out of the attic possibly. As for the heat issue i thought the extraction fan being controlled by a controller unit will sort this and havent even thought about the need of a a/c unit. Aslo i have not got ducting between the lights i have not thought about a setup like that. Think it would be easier if you could design something for that size room to grow 20 plants that would be great and we can go from there  and i will take on board your advise ..


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## phillipchristian (Apr 4, 2012)

vertigo me said:


> Thanks for the speedy reply. I will check about the electrics for you and get back to you ASAP, the point i marked is where i was looking at mounting the sockets etc and not the breaker panel.
> 
> As for my vegging and clone/mom room i am using another room for this which will be 7x10x8.
> 
> I aggree with you about the attic so can you think of another way of getting fresh air in? What about through the window and venting it out of the attic possibly. As for the heat issue i thought the extraction fan being controlled by a controller unit will sort this and havent even thought about the need of a a/c unit. Aslo i have not got ducting between the lights i have not thought about a setup like that. Think it would be easier if you could design something for that size room to grow 20 plants that would be great and we can go from there  and i will take on board your advise ..


I think you will be much better of pulling air from the window and ducting it to the attic. Just use that air for your hoods and exhaust the carbon filter back into the room. Wince your hoods will be a closed system then you won't have to worry too much about smell getting in and passing to your attic.

With that much light bud I really think you need to look into a portable a/c. I mean, we can setup your filter to exhaust to the attic and that would create negative pressure in the room but even if you had a 12" high output fan sucking air out of that room I still don't think it would draw air in fast enough to keep the room cool. You can pick up 12.000btu portable a/c units for less that $400. You are going to save money on fans and ducting anyway so in reality you'll probably only be spending another $150 and you for sure won't have to worry. If you decide to get one try and find a dual hose unit.

Let me know what you decide and I'll start drawing up some plants. With 3 600w lights you'll have no problem flowering 20 plants in there.


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## Trulife69 (Apr 5, 2012)

yo phillip..If I do suck all the air out of my grow room with the portable a/c..Would I need to be pulling fresh air in like from a window...I read "The room should completely exchange air every 5 minutes" so.. How would a guy set that up?? Would it be bad to just suck all the air out the portable and not have fresh air in? Bad for plants??? Anyways...I got a window and a 6" booster and I didnt know if thats something that would work but... Maybe you could straighten me out on this so im not so lost.
Thanks Phil


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## phillipchristian (Apr 5, 2012)

Trulife69 said:


> yo phillip..If I do suck all the air out of my grow room with the portable a/c..Would I need to be pulling fresh air in like from a window...I read "The room should completely exchange air every 5 minutes" so.. How would a guy set that up?? Would it be bad to just suck all the air out the portable and not have fresh air in? Bad for plants??? Anyways...I got a window and a 6" booster and I didnt know if thats something that would work but... Maybe you could straighten me out on this so im not so lost.
> Thanks Phil


Hey bud, if you get a dual hose portable a/c you won't have to worry about sucking air out of your grow room or even worry to much about the smell. They do not exchange air with the room. The air used to cool the coils is taken in by 1 hose and exhausted by another.

If you are worried about negative pressure don't be. Air will come into the room via cracks in the doors and walls. Unless you were a contractor and built the room specifically to seal it you will have passive intakes that will allow air to be replaced in the room. Having fresh air in the room is always good. Just realize that if you actively bring air in from outside via the window then you raise the chance of getting mold, bugs, mildew, etc...


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## vertigo me (Apr 5, 2012)

Thanks for the response paul. First off i would like to make it clear i want to try and keep electrical consumption down to not alert the electrical company. Do you or anyone else have any ideas on what i could get away with in the UK. The electric is payed via a pay as you go key and since being in the house only once (2 wks ago) has anyone come to take readings to my knowledge. I est. that 3 x 600w lights alone @15p a KWH will be over hundred pound a month. Thats not taking into account everything else and then the veg/clone room etc. Am i ok with electrical company or you think it will be too suspicious? I know that electrical companies would rather the cash and from research people only get caught when using a ridicolous amount of electric. Hope im being over cautious but if you or someone could clarify it would put me at much more ease.

Taking into account the above and also this is my first grow. I would like to keep pricing at a reasonable amount im allready expecting 1-1.5k for all equipment etc. As for your design i see you are looking at me using vented hoods and ducting them all etc. I have seen some designs like this but have not looked into the benifits or even thought this is what would suit my growroom. As i am a newbee i made the design from what i thought technically is sound but as you pointed is flawed. The main design came from a video i saw (the video link in next post) and i tryed recreating that to suit my room. I then thought about how i would control temperature and thought i could purchase a temperature controller unit for the intake and exit fan so when temp rises fans kick in and when it lowers fan knocks off, i thought this system would keep noise and electric would only be used when needed, would this system work and avoid the use of the aircon?. i would like to keep things budgeted for the build of the growroom, but i dont want to compromise on what is the correct setup. 
Await your respons and hopefully a design that will be suited for my needs 
Thanks


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## vertigo me (Apr 5, 2012)

[video=youtube;Ahj1Hjw3URs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahj1Hjw3URs[/video]


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## phillipchristian (Apr 5, 2012)

vertigo me said:


> Thanks for the response paul. First off i would like to make it clear i want to try and keep electrical consumption down to not alert the electrical company. Do you or anyone else have any ideas on what i could get away with in the UK. The electric is payed via a pay as you go key and since being in the house only once (2 wks ago) has anyone come to take readings to my knowledge. I est. that 3 x 600w lights alone @15p a KWH will be over hundred pound a month. Thats not taking into account everything else and then the veg/clone room etc. Am i ok with electrical company or you think it will be too suspicious? I know that electrical companies would rather the cash and from research people only get caught when using a ridicolous amount of electric. Hope im being over cautious but if you or someone could clarify it would put me at much more ease.
> 
> Taking into account the above and also this is my first grow. I would like to keep pricing at a reasonable amount im allready expecting 1-1.5k for all equipment etc. As for your design i see you are looking at me using vented hoods and ducting them all etc. I have seen some designs like this but have not looked into the benifits or even thought this is what would suit my growroom. As i am a newbee i made the design from what i thought technically is sound but as you pointed is flawed. The main design came from the video link below and i tryed recreating that to suit my room. I then thought about how i would control temperature and thought i could purchase a temperature controller unit for the intake and exit fan so when temp rises fans kick in and when it lowers fan knocks off, i thought this system would keep noise and electric would only be used when needed, would this system work and avoid the use of the aircon?. i would like to keep things budgeted for the build of the growroom, but i dont want to compromise on what is the correct setup.
> Await your respons and hopefully a design that will be suited for my needs
> Thanks


Hey Vertigo, I think a lot depends on whether you are living in the house. You said you have only been there once in 2 weeks so does that mean that you are not living there full time? If not then you are definitely fine. 3 600w lights basically pull the same electricity as your would use every day in kitchen appliances. If you are living in the house then their are some things you can do to cut down on electricity in other areas. Like using less a/c and heat. Turning your hotwater heater off or buying an tannkless hot water heater. Putting your fridge on a timer to shut off when you go to bed and for a few hours during the day. Also try unplugging as much stuff as you can when you aren't using it. If you can do all of this then pulling an extra 2500-3000 watts in light and equipment will be fine.

Those lamps you see in the video are not familiar to me. I have seen them before but they seem to be almost a fluorescent lamp. If you are using HID (HPS & MH) lights then you will have heat issues in your room and will either need to duct the lights out of the room or get an a/c to handle the heat load; or both. Just having an air intake and exhaust works for tents or rooms that have only 1 light or low wattage. In your case this is not applicable. If you are on a budget and concerned about electricity right now then maybe 2 lights would be a better choice for now. You will most likely still have to cool the room with an a/c but you will have less setup costs and electricity usage.


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## vertigo me (Apr 5, 2012)

Thanks for that reply. Puts me at ease with the electrical issues and know of people around my area doing 30 plant growns with no issues. As for living there yes i live there but use very little electric at the moment just the basics no dishwasher tubledryer though. And when i saod only been there once i was referring to the elec guy coming to read the meter, that is to my knowledge has only been once in two years to read it? I am going to have a word with an electrician friend who im hoping can clear a few electrical questions up but i am wondering if that means they dont come to read the meter very often and i am using a pay-go system then they will not know how much electricity is being used anyway or do they know directly? Also without trying to be too sketchy about getting caught the roof of the house is inadequitely insulated, i can get hold of insulation cheap through a builder friend but what i am getting at is will the heat signature from the roof be like a beacon for infa red choppers or will this not differ from going out the window or up the attic? ui did think about going out the boiler flu in the room ?? I have spokenb to one or two people about my concerns and they say i am worrying but i would rather be cautious than nieve ...

Anyway back to the plan. I will stick with 3 x 600s and just save untill i can afford them and running them it woint cost alot more running the 1 600hps compared to the return in crop. I would also like to note that when taking into consideration the design i would like to make my growroom based around a perpetual cycle so i am having a continual outgoing of crop on a reg basis. The other room i have available is 7x10x8 and has again one large window opposite the door on the shortest walls.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 5, 2012)

vertigo me said:


> Thanks for that reply. Puts me at ease with the electrical issues and know of people around my area doing 30 plant growns with no issues. As for living there yes i live there but use very little electric at the moment just the basics no dishwasher tubledryer though. And when i saod only been there once i was referring to the elec guy coming to read the meter, that is to my knowledge has only been once in two years to read it? I am going to have a word with an electrician friend who im hoping can clear a few electrical questions up but i am wondering if that means they dont come to read the meter very often and i am using a pay-go system then they will not know how much electricity is being used anyway or do they know directly? Also without trying to be too sketchy about getting caught the roof of the house is inadequitely insulated, i can get hold of insulation cheap through a builder friend but what i am getting at is will the heat signature from the roof be like a beacon for infa red choppers or will this not differ from going out the window or up the attic? ui did think about going out the boiler flu in the room ?? I have spokenb to one or two people about my concerns and they say i am worrying but i would rather be cautious than nieve ...
> 
> Anyway back to the plan. I will stick with 3 x 600s and just save untill i can afford them and running them it woint cost alot more running the 1 600hps compared to the return in crop. I would also like to note that when taking into consideration the design i would like to make my growroom based around a perpetual cycle so i am having a continual outgoing of crop on a reg basis. The other room i have available is 7x10x8 and has again one large window opposite the door on the shortest walls.


I am going to be honest with you Vertigo, I really can't comment on the "Pay-as-you-go" systems cause we have nothing like that here. I imagine that the electrical company always knows your consumption whether an inspector comes out or not. I don't think a grow of your size will draw any suspicion though. As for infra red helicopters I think the laws are different in the UK then in the US. If you can get the insulation for chep then I would go ahead nad use it. Any exhaust heat from your lights should be exhausted through the biler flu or kept in the room and cooled with the a/c. If you exhaust it out the window I imagine that might be suspicious. Going to the attic with the exhaust air would also be a good idea.


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## vertigo me (Apr 5, 2012)

Ok well taking into consideration what has been said can you make up a floorplan for me. I know you have mentioned about having vented hoods but a question out of curiosity how would the design differ with other open hoods?

Also i managed a picture of the electrical board:
One switch controlls all the upstair lighting.


One last thing i have read up about the electrical con unit only briefly and saw a few comments mentioning about the costs of running one of these. Can you explain to me the need of the aircon unit for me to better understand the need for one of these or possible variations of another way to sort the problem the aircon is solving.

Also a little about the veging room can you make up a possible design for the 7x10 room and equipment to be needed (pretty please) so i can start putting in place a total cost of equipment to get it all up and running.

Thanks


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## vertigo me (Apr 5, 2012)

If the image is not clear then it says the circuit is protected by 80A 240V 30mA and main switch 100A


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## phillipchristian (Apr 5, 2012)

Hey Vertigo, 

First things first; I'll put the design up in a little bit. Still working on it and I have some things to finish but I'm headed to dinner in a little with some friends.

Open hoods will add ALL of the heat from your lights into the grow room. It will also shorten the length of your bulbs and require you to clean your bulbs regularly. The advantage is you have less light lost via the glass on a air cooled hood. You will not have a choice if you go this route; you will need to oversize your a/c unit. A portable unit may not be enough and you might possibly need 2. Air cooling your hoods is not hard. All you will require is the hoods; some ducting and a single inline fan. I would exhaust them into your attic. I understand you want to try and avoid putting in an a/c but you might not have a choice. Especially with summer coming. These HID lights put off a lot of heat. As well do the ballasts for them and any dehumidifier you have in the room. From experience I can tell you that even if you exhaust your hoods into the attic or outsid you may still need an a/c; if you have open air hoods with no exhaust I can gurantee you are going to need a/c.

That electrical picture is too fuzzy and it's hard for me to determine which breaker is for the actual room that you are using. Plug something in the outlet in the room you are using. Then flip the breakers till that outlet shuts off. Then check all of the outlets around it in other rooms and lights in other places as well. You want to see what else is on that breaker. Then let me know the size of it. I need the number on the actual breaker. I can see that they are numbered B32, B15, and B6. The red breaker on the right is your main service disconnect. The larger breakers with the orange tabs are most likely heavy appiances like heaters or central a/c. It says on the board that their is only 1 circuit for outlets. I wonder if they are wired so that all outlets are on the same breaker. If so, then you will need to be carful as to what is plugged into outlets if you are going to be running your grow equipment. The B32 breaker for the outlets is a 20amp breaker. Each one of your ballasts will draw 5amps. So you will be at capacity with just the ballasts for that breaker. I need more info though. You need to see what else is plugged into the ballasts and also what that breaker actually controls.

What do you need to have in your veg room? Are you going to have mother plants in there? How many vegging plants do you need?


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## kamie (Apr 5, 2012)

hey phillip i just picked this up for my 4x4 http://solis-tek.com/1000_watt_electronic_ballast_dimmable.html gives off no heat and theres no noise at all. i also ended up getting a 8in max fan for my exhaust. i got it for $195. thanks for helping me out on my tent


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## phillipchristian (Apr 5, 2012)

kamie said:


> hey phillip i just picked this up for my 4x4 http://solis-tek.com/1000_watt_electronic_ballast_dimmable.html gives off no heat and theres no noise at all. i also ended up getting a 8in max fan for my exhaust. i got it for $195. thanks for helping me out on my tent


Glad to see it all worked out bud. Keep me posted on how things go. Good luck.


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## Bwpz (Apr 6, 2012)

How does this one look? Each frame is made of 2x4's and stapled/velcrowed panda film to make every wall accessible. 6 Plants in each section, except the mothers/clones. 435CFM exhaust fan with 2' carbon filter in veg room. 745CFM exhaust fan with 2' carbon filter in the flowering room. There will also be 16" oscillating fans in both rooms. They're flood and drain systems with 15 gallons of water in each resevoir (4 resevoirs). Growing in 6" rockwool cubes only, shielded by panda film covers.


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## Trulife69 (Apr 6, 2012)

Yo phillip! I just got done reading some of the haters of a.n. and some of the post you were in. Those guys are a bunch of douches,all they do is bash when a guy needs a little advice. Funny part was you have been helping me with the portable a/c and barrel idea and then I was reading other post about a.n. and just realized it was you. ha your all over RIU. I had a couple questions about a.n. that might help me out a little in my grow room. But I dont want 80 people chimming in to bash me. Also..what is the recommended inline fan cfms for 2 1000W HPS and ducting 12-15' to chimney?? I have a 6" inline but I think it is either 400 or 440 cfms.


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## Trulife69 (Apr 6, 2012)

The hps ducting is 6" as well


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## vertigo me (Apr 6, 2012)

to find out the fan to exchange the air correctly you want to look at the size of the room. Also add 10-15% per light and 20% for a filter and a little for ducting etc. This may help you 
http://www.uk420.com/growroomtools2.php


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## Trulife69 (Apr 6, 2012)

awesome,thanks vertigo.Ill check it out


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## Trulife69 (Apr 6, 2012)

awesome,thanks vertigo.Ill check it out


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## Trulife69 (Apr 6, 2012)

dont know why that posted twice,the site crashed right after trying to post that..weird. Anyways...so my room is 12'x12'x7'..so if I multiply all that I get 1008 and then I divide by 4? That gives me 252. so after adding some for lights and ducting I could get away with around 400 cfms?


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## vertigo me (Apr 6, 2012)

That sounds about right for me. I am totally new and have not started a grow myself only know from what i have read not experience, but from your math it sounds right and i have read its better to go a little more than a little less when getting the fan to match your needs. Im sure someone with alot more knowledge and experience can confirm this otherwise just spend a little time on the net and im sure it will clarify things alot more for u ...


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## phillipchristian (Apr 6, 2012)

Trulife69 said:


> Yo phillip! I just got done reading some of the haters of a.n. and some of the post you were in. Those guys are a bunch of douches,all they do is bash when a guy needs a little advice. Funny part was you have been helping me with the portable a/c and barrel idea and then I was reading other post about a.n. and just realized it was you. ha your all over RIU. I had a couple questions about a.n. that might help me out a little in my grow room. But I dont want 80 people chimming in to bash me. Also..what is the recommended inline fan cfms for 2 1000W HPS and ducting 12-15' to chimney?? I have a 6" inline but I think it is either 400 or 440 cfms.


Hey bud. Just ignore those haters. They are everywhere on this forum an the majority of them have no clue what they are talking about and have never used AN. They just repeat the same bullshit they've heard from the other haters. Feel free to post any questions in here.

Here is the deal with fans. About 80% of them sick. LOL. Seriously, the majority of them do not pull anywhere near the CFM they are rated for. Try and stick with CAN,Max, and Vortex if you can.

That chart that Vertigo provided seems like it would be for air turnover in your room. If you need to figure out how much air you need to pull through your lights to keep them cool then I don't think I have ever seen a formula for that. With 2 1000w lights they need to be in a straight line with no curves before the ducting and I think 400cfm would be ok. Any curves before the fan and you will need a stronger fan.


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## Dutchmast3r (Apr 6, 2012)

Damn bro beastly set-up cant wait to see it in action. KEEP US POSTED


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## Bwpz (Apr 6, 2012)

Hey phillip, do you have any input on my setup I posted?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 6, 2012)

Bwpz said:


> Hey phillip, do you have any input on my setup I posted?


Hey bud, sorry about that. I missed you there. You were the last post on that page and I guess a few posts were put up after you so I missed yours.

I really don't think you'll need a carbon filter in your veg room. You won't have any smell to deal with. Could save a little money there. I know the theory about using MH the first weeks of flower but I don't buy it. I would use that MH light in your veg room or switch it to HPS and put a 400w MH on your vegging plants. Doing a perpetual cycle like that you'll need your plants to grow as quick as possible and a MH will speed up your veg time. My only other suggestion would be the medium. I would use 4" rockwool block. Transfer from your 1" starter blocks and when the plants are rooted then transfer them to 4" blocks. I used to use the 6" blocks but I felt like they stunted the growth too much when transplanting the 1" cubes into them. Also, they hold too much liquid for the plants that are in 1" blocks. Also, fill your trays with hydroton. This will help the roots grow out more. Or you can get a tray cover from Hydrofarm and just cut out squares for your blocks. Anything to give the roots a place to grow without lights hitting them. Lastly, make sure you keep your reservoirs clean. Easiest way is with Hygrozyme and keeping the reservoir temps between 62-68. You can also use h2o2 or beneficial teas. I use hygrozyme and a chiller to kep my reservoirs clean. A frozen bottle of water will do the same as a chiller though for a 20 gallon reservoir. Just have to play with the bottle size to see what works for that reservoir. Keep an airstone in each reservoir as well. Oxyginated water is a huge bonus for your plants.

Hope all that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 6, 2012)

Hey phillip i picked up my heat exchanger today  got a few odds and ends to collect then i will run it!


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## phillipchristian (Apr 6, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey phillip i picked up my heat exchanger today  got a few odds and ends to collect then i will run it!


SWEEET! New Toys. Like Christmas morning for Hellraizer. Let me know how that thing runs man. Those units look super bad ass.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 6, 2012)

Will do phillip..........


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## vertigo me (Apr 6, 2012)

Thanks for clarifying that for me, im wondering what brand would you suggest for my lighting setup from your experience. Also concerning the electrics your right the MCB for the sockets controlls all the sockets in the house and are B32 and you say are rated at 20Amps? but i have been reading a electrical threads on a UK forum and they say that means its actually 32 Amp.. im confused :s I also noted in the thread i read that each socket will allow 13A so thats 26A out of my double socket, can you clarify this and then i was looking at using a blackbox contactor to plug in all the neccesery equipment. Can you shed some expertise if im going along the right track with that?


As for the Veg room i have been told that a good way is to take 2 cuttings from each one of my plants hopefully 20 and then veg them. Then pick a mother from the best plants out of the cuttings i have taken. Then flower the rest and keep the superior plant back to take future cuttings (how far back would you go with cuttings). I would be looking at having 20 plants in flower at all times and however many to keep this cycle going in the veg room. Can you give me a lighting setup for the veg room so i can also start pricing up some equipment needed and approx how much space i will be looking at using of if not all of the 7x10 room.

Thanks and sorry for so many questions :L


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## kamie (Apr 6, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey phillip i picked up my heat exchanger today  got a few odds and ends to collect then i will run it!


Hey HR, whats a heat exchanger?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 6, 2012)

vertigo me said:


> Thanks for clarifying that for me, im wondering what brand would you suggest for my lighting setup from your experience. Also concerning the electrics your right the MCB for the sockets controlls all the sockets in the house and are B32 and you say are rated at 20Amps? but i have been reading a electrical threads on a UK forum and they say that means its actually 32 Amp.. im confused :s I also noted in the thread i read that each socket will allow 13A so thats 26A out of my double socket, can you clarify this and then i was looking at using a blackbox contactor to plug in all the neccesery equipment. Can you shed some expertise if im going along the right track with that?
> 
> 
> As for the Veg room i have been told that a good way is to take 2 cuttings from each one of my plants hopefully 20 and then veg them. Then pick a mother from the best plants out of the cuttings i have taken. Then flower the rest and keep the superior plant back to take future cuttings (how far back would you go with cuttings). I would be looking at having 20 plants in flower at all times and however many to keep this cycle going in the veg room. Can you give me a lighting setup for the veg room so i can also start pricing up some equipment needed and approx how much space i will be looking at using of if not all of the 7x10 room.
> ...


I'll get you a plan and some answers tomorrow.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 6, 2012)

kamie said:


> Hey HR, whats a heat exchanger?


Exactly what it sounds like. If you see in my signature there's a thread about water cooled grow rooms. Heat exchangers are basically any piece of equipment built for efficient heat transfer from one load to another. In this instance Hell and I are talking about heat exchangers which use chilled water to cool the air. Water is a more efficient way to remove heat from air then using air to remove heat from air. Your a/c unit passes the air from your room over a heat exchanger which transfers that heat from the air to the refrigerant in the coils. The coils then flow to another heat exchanger where air from outside is passed over them to remove the heat from the refrigerant before it goes back. Water can actually remove more heat and do it more efficiently. I use water cooled equipment and air handlers in my grow room so that none of the equipment in my room (lights, ballasts, Co2 generators, reservoir, etc..) produces heat. Hell just got a water cooled air handler (or heat exchanger).


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## Bwpz (Apr 6, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Hey bud, sorry about that. I missed you there. You were the last post on that page and I guess a few posts were put up after you so I missed yours.
> 
> I really don't think you'll need a carbon filter in your veg room. You won't have any smell to deal with. Could save a little money there. I know the theory about using MH the first weeks of flower but I don't buy it. I would use that MH light in your veg room or switch it to HPS and put a 400w MH on your vegging plants. Doing a perpetual cycle like that you'll need your plants to grow as quick as possible and a MH will speed up your veg time. My only other suggestion would be the medium. I would use 4" rockwool block. Transfer from your 1" starter blocks and when the plants are rooted then transfer them to 4" blocks. I used to use the 6" blocks but I felt like they stunted the growth too much when transplanting the 1" cubes into them. Also, they hold too much liquid for the plants that are in 1" blocks. Also, fill your trays with hydroton. This will help the roots grow out more. Or you can get a tray cover from Hydrofarm and just cut out squares for your blocks. Anything to give the roots a place to grow without lights hitting them. Lastly, make sure you keep your reservoirs clean. Easiest way is with Hygrozyme and keeping the reservoir temps between 62-68. You can also use h2o2 or beneficial teas. I use hygrozyme and a chiller to kep my reservoirs clean. A frozen bottle of water will do the same as a chiller though for a 20 gallon reservoir. Just have to play with the bottle size to see what works for that reservoir. Keep an airstone in each reservoir as well. Oxyginated water is a huge bonus for your plants.
> 
> Hope all that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.


Thanks for your help  I figured I'd use panda film as a cover to shield the roots from light, and thanks for the input on 4" rockwool cubes and the carbon filter, big money saver  I planned on having 2 airstones in each, and a tea but if you say hygrozyme works well then I'll look into that. The main reason I was going to use the 600w MH in flowering was because I already have 1 MH and 2 HPS 600w bulbs  I'll invest in another 600w bulb and replace the veg room with a 400w MH, but leave the mothers and clones under Fluorescent. Does that sound like a good idea?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 6, 2012)

Bwpz said:


> Thanks for your help  I figured I'd use panda film as a cover to shield the roots from light, and thanks for the input on 4" rockwool cubes and the carbon filter, big money saver  I planned on having 2 airstones in each, and a tea but if you say hygrozyme works well then I'll look into that. The main reason I was going to use the 600w MH in flowering was because I already have 1 MH and 2 HPS 600w bulbs  I'll invest in another 600w bulb and replace the veg room with a 400w MH, but leave the mothers and clones under Fluorescent. Does that sound like a good idea?


If you have a good recipe for a tea and don't mind brewing itevery couple weeks then go with that. It has a lot more benefits than Hygrozyme.

Now that I think about it I would stick with your fluorescents in veg. You are only vegging them for 3 weeks so you realy won't need any penetrating light and your fluorescents will actually give them a better spectrum. Stick with the lighting that you have.


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## Bwpz (Apr 6, 2012)

Do you think it'd be worth the extra $60 to get a 600w HPS bulb to replace the 600w MH for the first trimester? I've read that it might reduce the stretching, but would it lack in anything beneficial?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 6, 2012)

Definitely.


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## Bwpz (Apr 6, 2012)

Thanks man  That floor plan is what I'll be building in a couple months since I need a big investment and I am just starting my job. Right now I got some Fruity Chronic Juice by Delicious Seeds that just sprouted, I'll hit you up with a link when I start my journal


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## kamie (Apr 7, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Exactly what it sounds like. If you see in my signature there's a thread about water cooled grow rooms. Heat exchangers are basically any piece of equipment built for efficient heat transfer from one load to another. In this instance Hell and I are talking about heat exchangers which use chilled water to cool the air. Water is a more efficient way to remove heat from air then using air to remove heat from air. Your a/c unit passes the air from your room over a heat exchanger which transfers that heat from the air to the refrigerant in the coils. The coils then flow to another heat exchanger where air from outside is passed over them to remove the heat from the refrigerant before it goes back. Water can actually remove more heat and do it more efficiently. I use water cooled equipment and air handlers in my grow room so that none of the equipment in my room (lights, ballasts, Co2 generators, reservoir, etc..) produces heat. Hell just got a water cooled air handler (or heat exchanger).


is this it? http://www.watercooledgardens.com/predefined_package.php?packageid=9 if i were to go the water cool route would i have to replace all my equipment for water cooled equipment?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 7, 2012)

kamie said:


> is this it? http://www.watercooledgardens.com/predefined_package.php?packageid=9 if i were to go the water cool route would i have to replace all my equipment for water cooled equipment?


Something like that. That is a smaller system than what we are talking about but the same principle. The "Ice Box" is a heat exchanger on a smaller scale. If you decided to go with a water cooled system then you would have to size a chiller to meet your needs (lights, Co2, air conditioning, etc...). You wouldn't need to get rid of any of your equipment. The technology can be used as an add on to your existing system. It is expensive though and often times not the best idea. You really need to take full advantage of the benefits of the chiller; have an extreme case in which you beef to go this route; or understand the efficiency of the systems and the long term electrical savings to justify purchasing one of these systems. You can find a ton of info in the thread in my signature or you can PM me anytime you have questions.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 7, 2012)

kamie said:


> is this it? http://www.watercooledgardens.com/predefined_package.php?packageid=9 if i were to go the water cool route would i have to replace all my equipment for water cooled equipment?


I actually use a Chillking Chiller and 2 of there water cooled Air Handlers as well as a few of the other products on that website from Hydro innovations. I've also used Ice Box before and still have a few.

Hellraizer is referring to a different heat exchanger that he found.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 7, 2012)

vertigo me said:


> Thanks for clarifying that for me, im wondering what brand would you suggest for my lighting setup from your experience. Also concerning the electrics your right the MCB for the sockets controlls all the sockets in the house and are B32 and you say are rated at 20Amps? but i have been reading a electrical threads on a UK forum and they say that means its actually 32 Amp.. im confused :s I also noted in the thread i read that each socket will allow 13A so thats 26A out of my double socket, can you clarify this and then i was looking at using a blackbox contactor to plug in all the neccesery equipment. Can you shed some expertise if im going along the right track with that?
> 
> 
> As for the Veg room i have been told that a good way is to take 2 cuttings from each one of my plants hopefully 20 and then veg them. Then pick a mother from the best plants out of the cuttings i have taken. Then flower the rest and keep the superior plant back to take future cuttings (how far back would you go with cuttings). I would be looking at having 20 plants in flower at all times and however many to keep this cycle going in the veg room. Can you give me a lighting setup for the veg room so i can also start pricing up some equipment needed and approx how much space i will be looking at using of if not all of the 7x10 room.
> ...


Hey bud, unfortunately I really can't be of much help with the electrical at this point. I am pretty sure that is a 20amp breaker but past that I shouldn't be giving you advice. I am not familiar with codes and practices in the UK so I am the last person to be asking about these things. Either way, if that breaker controls all of the outlets in your house then you need to be careful how much you plug into the outlets. Remember that you already have several things already plugged into outlets and adding that type of load to 1 circuit will most likely throw the breaker.

If you are looking to get 20 plants then you will need to take 28-34 clippings until you get good at cloning. In order to do this you are going to need 2-3 moms. What kind of light are you planning on using in your veg room? I think you would be fine with 2 T5 systems. 6 or 8 lamps for your moms and 4-6 lamps for your clones depending on how long you will be vegging them.


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## vertigo me (Apr 7, 2012)

Hmm i totally understand what you mean with overloading the circuit.. How do you suggest we overcome this problem? Again i have an electrician friend and hopefully he can clarify alot of the electrical issues for me. I am assuming that i will have to have another circuit board or msb etc to allow the amount of Amps used from both rooms...

As for the Veg room its not an area that i have researched that much in depth but T5's seem very common and most likely what i will opt for and having said you also suggested them i take it a definate thats what i will use. So baring all this in mind i just want to make sure that the total wattage is not exceeding 3k Watts. Are we close or over this for my kind of setup taking into account the amount of equipment needed. I say 3k watt as from reading forums a bedrrom should produce 1k watt avg . Is this right or am i taking information from not a very good source..


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## phillipchristian (Apr 7, 2012)

vertigo me said:


> Hmm i totally understand what you mean with overloading the circuit.. How do you suggest we overcome this problem? Again i have an electrician friend and hopefully he can clarify alot of the electrical issues for me. I am assuming that i will have to have another circuit board or msb etc to allow the amount of Amps used from both rooms...
> 
> As for the Veg room its not an area that i have researched that much in depth but T5's seem very common and most likely what i will opt for and having said you also suggested them i take it a definate thats what i will use. So baring all this in mind i just want to make sure that the total wattage is not exceeding 3k Watts. Are we close or over this for my kind of setup taking into account the amount of equipment needed. I say 3k watt as from reading forums a bedrrom should produce 1k watt avg . Is this right or am i taking information from not a very good source..


Your friend should be able to help you out better with the electrical. Looks like the board that you have has room for additional breakers. It may be as simple as just adding a breaker and running a line to that room with several outlets at the end of it.

You are going the be over 3000w for sure. 1800w in flower lighting and maybe 750w in veg lighting. Then add inline fans, oscillating fans, any pumps, controllers, sensors, etc... Plus you still may need an a/c and a dehumidifier/humidifier. 

Again, I really can't comment on what is normal electricity usage where you live but in the U.S. anything under 3,000w of lighting is usually nothing to worry about. I think you'll be fine running this equipment as long as you actively conserve the other electrical devices in your house. Turn of the a/c or heat whenever you can, turn off the hot water heater whenever you can, unplug the fridge at night or when you leave for the day. You need to talk to your buddy and see what he thinks about the electrical and bringing in a dedicated circuit just for your flower room.


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## BLAZDBANDIT (Apr 7, 2012)

Hey Phil,

what problems if any would venting a 800 ft3 room through the in ceiling vent, pushing back against the running system of central heating and air? air would be sucked through a carbon filter and be cooling two 1000w hps through 8" duct before going into system?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 7, 2012)

BLAZDBANDIT said:


> Hey Phil,
> 
> what problems if any would venting a 800 ft3 room through the in ceiling vent, pushing back against the running system of central heating and air? air would be sucked through a carbon filter and be cooling two 1000w hps through 8" duct before going into system?


Could create a ton of problems and break your central air system. You would be creating positive pressure in the central air system as well as pushing grinding the motors on the air handler's fan. Not a good idea. Put a hole in the ceiling next to the vent and push the air into the crawl space.


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## kamie (Apr 7, 2012)

hey phillip, is it okay to plug both my 600w ballast to a 15 amp digital timer? the cords are also too short to reach the timer would it be okay if i use extension cords as well?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 7, 2012)

kamie said:


> hey phillip, is it okay to plug both my 600w ballast to a 15 amp digital timer? the cords are also too short to reach the timer would it be okay if i use extension cords as well?


Sure, you should be fine. 600w ballasts draw about 5.5amps at 120v. Just make sure you don't put much else if anything on the outlet or any other outlets on the same circuit. Most breakers for household outlets are only rated for 15-20amps and you shouldn't put more than 75-80% of that load on them. So on a 15amp breaker you don't want to put more then 12amps.

Extension cords are fine. Just make sure they are rated for 10amps each. Not the cheap 12v cords.


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## Bwpz (Apr 7, 2012)

Have you ever seen the Hydrofarm Tower of Power? It says you can throw anything at it pretty much, and I was thinking about getting it to run my 3 600w ballasts and 600 watts of fluorescent t5s.

Link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001WAL58I/ref=s9_simh_gw_p86_d7_g86_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-5&pf_rd_r=0RF4Q40QWX3MFK02Y8VW&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470939291&pf_rd_i=507846


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## phillipchristian (Apr 7, 2012)

Bwpz said:


> Have you ever seen the Hydrofarm Tower of Power? It says you can throw anything at it pretty much, and I was thinking about getting it to run my 3 600w ballasts and 600 watts of fluorescent t5s.
> 
> Link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001WAL58I/ref=s9_simh_gw_p86_d7_g86_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-5&pf_rd_r=0RF4Q40QWX3MFK02Y8VW&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470939291&pf_rd_i=507846


Seems like a wast of money to me. It has 14 gauge wire which means it's rated for 20amps. You could put your 3 600w lights (16.5amps total) on it but that is it. You don't want to put more than 75-80% of the rated load for any electrical equipment. Then you plug it into the wall and that circuit will have to be a 20amps or more. If you have a 15amp breaker it won't work with all 3 lights on it.

I think I mentioned this to you earlier; if you really want to do it correctly then you are going to need to either hardwire a dual trigger 8 light controller or a subpanel to your room. Either way you are going to need more electricity for all of your lights, fans, pumps, etc... than you will get from the outlets in your room. Even if you bring in power from another room/different circuit with an extension cord it may not be enough. Do it right the first time and you won't have to ever worry again in the future.


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## Bwpz (Apr 7, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Seems like a wast of money to me. It has 14 gauge wire which means it's rated for 20amps. You could put your 3 600w lights (16.5amps total) on it but that is it. You don't want to put more than 75-80% of the rated load for any electrical equipment. Then you plug it into the wall and that circuit will have to be a 20amps or more. If you have a 15amp breaker it won't work with all 3 lights on it.
> 
> I think I mentioned this to you earlier; if you really want to do it correctly then you are going to need to either hardwire a dual trigger 8 light controller or a subpanel to your room. Either way you are going to need more electricity for all of your lights, fans, pumps, etc... than you will get from the outlets in your room. Even if you bring in power from another room/different circuit with an extension cord it may not be enough. Do it right the first time and you won't have to ever worry again in the future.


So I could just run in a 240v line and use that with the dual 600w 240v ballast I guess, that way it's seperate from everything else and the outlets in the room could run the pumps and whatnot. Seems like the most logical choice suggested 

I wish I could rep you again lol


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## phillipchristian (Apr 7, 2012)

Bwpz said:


> So I could just run in a 240v line and use that with the dual 600w 240v ballast I guess, that way it's seperate from everything else and the outlets in the room could run the pumps and whatnot. Seems like the most logical choice suggested
> 
> I wish I could rep you again lol


If you did it that way you still would have to put the 1 600w, the T5's, and the rest of the equipment on the other circuit which might overload it. Especially if you end up having to put an a/c or dehumidifier in there.

In my opinion you have 2 options. Either run a 240v line in there to a 50amp subpanel. Then come off that subpanel to whatever 120v & 240v outlets you need. The other option would be if your 2 room are close enough; you could just bring the same 50amp into a dual trigger box (light controller) and use 1 side for you flower room and the other side for your veg room. You could plug in all of the ballasts and hood exhaust fans and put them all on 1 trigger (timer) for each room. You would have 4 outlets per trigger. So in you flower room you could put 2-3 ballasts (depends if you get the Lumatek Dual Ballast) and 1-2 inline fans that will be on the same timer as your lights. For your veg room you could put both T5's and any other piece of equipment that is on the same timer as the lights. If you are running your veg at 24/0 then you could put anything you want on that trigger from wither the flower or the veg. Then I would put a High Temp/Hot Strike box on your flower room trigger. The cheapest way is with the subpanel. You just need to get an electrician to do it for you have someone who REALLY knows what they are doing walk you through it step by step.


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## Bwpz (Apr 7, 2012)

It wouldn't be a little suspicious having an electrician install a 240v line and a 50amp subpanel for me?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 7, 2012)

Bwpz said:


> It wouldn't be a little suspicious having an electrician install a 240v line and a 50amp subpanel for me?


No. Tell him you are putting in a saltwater reef system. Those thing use huge pumps, filters, water chillers, etc... Tell him you are putting in a recording studio. If you are in a legal state who cares. If notm who cares. Electrician isn't going to ask you why. Just tell him what you want and where you want it. Would take him 2 hours MAX to wire up everything. If you are really concerned..then send me a PM and we'll talk about it and see if you can do it yourself. I can walk you through it but I would need some info.


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## Bwpz (Apr 7, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> No. Tell him you are putting in a saltwater reef system. Those thing use huge pumps, filters, water chillers, etc... Tell him you are putting in a recording studio. If you are in a legal state who cares. If notm who cares. Electrician isn't going to ask you why. Just tell him what you want and where you want it. Would take him 2 hours MAX to wire up everything. If you are really concerned..then send me a PM and we'll talk about it and see if you can do it yourself. I can walk you through it but I would need some info.


I wouldn't want to put my house's security in my hands, I'll just pay an electrician to do it  It would be cool if you could list everything I need so I can tell the electrician


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## phillipchristian (Apr 7, 2012)

Bwpz said:


> I wouldn't want to put my house's security in my hands, I'll just pay an electrician to do it  It would be cool if you could list everything I need so I can tell the electrician


I don't know what breaker panel you have or how much space you have on it or anything so I really can't give you a list of materials.

Tell the electrician you need a 50amp subpanel put into that room. Then tell him you want 4 four 20amp outlets at 120v and show him where you want them. If you get that dual ballast from Lumatek then you'll need a 240v outlet 15amps for it. That way you'll have 2 dual outlets in your flower room to run all your ballasts on 1 or 2 and another 1-2 for the rest of the equipment. Then 1 outlet should be fine for you veg room. I don't know your setup or anything so I can't really tell you what you'll need. Are you in tents or did you build a room. Too many unknowns for me to get specific.


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## Bwpz (Apr 8, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> I don't know what breaker panel you have or how much space you have on it or anything so I really can't give you a list of materials.
> 
> Tell the electrician you need a 50amp subpanel put into that room. Then tell him you want 4 four 20amp outlets at 120v and show him where you want them. If you get that dual ballast from Lumatek then you'll need a 240v outlet 15amps for it. That way you'll have 2 dual outlets in your flower room to run all your ballasts on 1 or 2 and another 1-2 for the rest of the equipment. Then 1 outlet should be fine for you veg room. I don't know your setup or anything so I can't really tell you what you'll need. Are you in tents or did you build a room. Too many unknowns for me to get specific.


I'm building a room and using panda film as the walls. The equipment I'll need to run is:

3 600w Ballasts
16 40-watt fluorescent tubes
4 250gph water pumps
2 35w air pumps
2 inline fans (1 amp and 1.7 amp)
Separate timers (Flowering, Vegging,Water pump timer)
16" Oscillating fan, couple other smaller fans

Later I'll be adding a CO2 tank with a regulator. 

Thanks for that information, any idea on about how much that'd cost?


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## ThorWho (Apr 8, 2012)

Hey Phil you probably forgot about me, I would be grateful if you could help me out. Here's my original post https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/513173-grow-room-floorplans-here-help-8.html#post7178589 Even though I've done a ton of research, it's kinda hard for me to design a growroom when I've never even been inside of one. I think I want a flowering area with four 600w lights and a vegetative+mother area with a 600w mh and 8bulb t5. Does this sound about right? I'm thinking 16 plants in flowering, room for 16 clones vegging and 4 mothers. That gives me 36, and using the other 12 plants I'm legal to possess for breeding or pheno selecting or whatever.
I definitely don't plan on starting with this many plants, but I have the ability to save money and work my way up to that much equipment. I just want to do this right the first time. The electrician is finally coming this week to upgrade my service to 200amps and the wiring in my basement, could you also point out where I need him to put outlets? Or possibly a subpanel? Feel free to tell me that I'm asking too much from you. Thanks for any help you can provide


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

You should be fine with 4 outlets. 3 for flower and 1 for veg. You can run most of that stuff on power strips. Just not the lights.

Probably run you $150 for the electrical boxes, wire, and breakers. Maybe another $200 to have the dude install it all.


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## Bwpz (Apr 8, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> You should be fine with 4 outlets. 3 for flower and 1 for veg. You can run most of that stuff on power strips. Just not the lights.
> 
> Probably run you $150 for the electrical boxes, wire, and breakers. Maybe another $200 to have the dude install it all.


Thanks man, you saved my house


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitress.


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## Bwpz (Apr 8, 2012)

ThorWho said:


> Hey Phil you probably forgot about me, I would be grateful if you could help me out. Here's my original post https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/513173-grow-room-floorplans-here-help-8.html#post7178589 Even though I've done a ton of research, it's kinda hard for me to design a growroom when I've never even been inside of one. I think I want a flowering area with four 600w lights and a vegetative+mother area with a 600w mh and 8bulb t5. Does this sound about right? I'm thinking 16 plants in flowering, room for 16 clones vegging and 4 mothers. That gives me 36, and using the other 12 plants I'm legal to possess for breeding or pheno selecting or whatever.
> I definitely don't plan on starting with this many plants, but I have the ability to save money and work my way up to that much equipment. I just want to do this right the first time. The electrician is finally coming this week to upgrade my service to 200amps and the wiring in my basement, could you also point out where I need him to put outlets? Or possibly a subpanel? Feel free to tell me that I'm asking too much from you. Thanks for any help you can provide


Damn dude, sounds like you're gonna have a nice setup  You should look at my setup for a perpetual outline, unless you didn't want to do a perpetual grow.

Just noticed the image was deleted, here's a reupload:


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

ThorWho said:


> Hey Phil you probably forgot about me, I would be grateful if you could help me out. Here's my original post https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/513173-grow-room-floorplans-here-help-8.html#post7178589 Even though I've done a ton of research, it's kinda hard for me to design a growroom when I've never even been inside of one. I think I want a flowering area with four 600w lights and a vegetative+mother area with a 600w mh and 8bulb t5. Does this sound about right? I'm thinking 16 plants in flowering, room for 16 clones vegging and 4 mothers. That gives me 36, and using the other 12 plants I'm legal to possess for breeding or pheno selecting or whatever.
> I definitely don't plan on starting with this many plants, but I have the ability to save money and work my way up to that much equipment. I just want to do this right the first time. The electrician is finally coming this week to upgrade my service to 200amps and the wiring in my basement, could you also point out where I need him to put outlets? Or possibly a subpanel? Feel free to tell me that I'm asking too much from you. Thanks for any help you can provide


Hey bud, if you look below your original post I asked you some questions to help me lay the room out but you never got back to me. You just answered some of them but I still need to know answers to the other ones. I also need to know if you are going to be building seperate rooms for them.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

ThorWho said:


> Hey Phil you probably forgot about me, I would be grateful if you could help me out. Here's my original post https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/513173-grow-room-floorplans-here-help-8.html#post7178589 Even though I've done a ton of research, it's kinda hard for me to design a growroom when I've never even been inside of one. I think I want a flowering area with four 600w lights and a vegetative+mother area with a 600w mh and 8bulb t5. Does this sound about right? I'm thinking 16 plants in flowering, room for 16 clones vegging and 4 mothers. That gives me 36, and using the other 12 plants I'm legal to possess for breeding or pheno selecting or whatever.
> I definitely don't plan on starting with this many plants, but I have the ability to save money and work my way up to that much equipment. I just want to do this right the first time. The electrician is finally coming this week to upgrade my service to 200amps and the wiring in my basement, could you also point out where I need him to put outlets? Or possibly a subpanel? Feel free to tell me that I'm asking too much from you. Thanks for any help you can provide


I've actually gotten most of the info I need now. Just a few questions.

What are you going to do when winter comes and you have no a/c?
What window is the a/c in right now?
Can you duct your lights out the windows or to a crawl space? Can you duct them into the basement if you build a dividing wall?


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## ThorWho (Apr 8, 2012)

My window ac isn't in anything right now, when it gets hot we have a smaller one for the bedroom. When winter comes I was considering buying a portable ac or 2. There was a small wood stove attached to the chimney down there so I assume I can duct everything into it.


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## Bwpz (Apr 8, 2012)

Ducting into a chimney is a great idea  I've heard of ducting through dryer vents, but a chimney sounds simpler


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## ThorWho (Apr 8, 2012)

Bwpz said:


> Ducting into a chimney is a great idea  I've heard of ducting through dryer vents, but a chimney sounds simpler


While we're on the subject, I could just duct some stuff into the other part of the basement to help heat my house in the winter right? My bedroom is right above the laundry room.


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## Bwpz (Apr 8, 2012)

ThorWho said:


> While we're on the subject, I could just duct some stuff into the other part of the basement to help heat my house in the winter right? My bedroom is right above the laundry room.


The best way to use your ducting is to heat your house, so it spreads the heat out instead of concentrating it. If you don't want to spread it, at least vent it through something that normally produces heat (chimney, dryer ducting).

You should watch Barry Cooper's Never Get Busted Vol. 1 & 2, there's tons of information about this kind of stuff


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## thousanaire (Apr 8, 2012)

Wassup guys hey i jus finished reading everythang and noticed it was getting bigger so i guess u guys r up late with me. Ok so heres my situation my roommate tells me yesterday she wants to move back in with her mom. So i could have some one come rent it out but im thinking i can jus grow in it and pay the rent myself. So the room is about a 9.5ft wide by 11.5 feet long and about 8-10 ft ceilings. This is in an apartment and i already have a nice 3x3 tent going in my room wiht a 600 watt hps and a small cloner cabinent. so i was thinking i cud do a veg room in the 3x3 tent in my room and was planning on either doing a 8x8 tent or possibly a 5x10 tent. I want to have a lil room around the tent to put stuff n a chair to smoke in there n such. So what do u think is my best bet inbetween the two choices.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

ThorWho said:


> While we're on the subject, I could just duct some stuff into the other part of the basement to help heat my house in the winter right? My bedroom is right above the laundry room.


I sent you a private message. Let me know.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

thousanaire said:


> Wassup guys hey i jus finished reading everythang and noticed it was getting bigger so i guess u guys r up late with me. Ok so heres my situation my roommate tells me yesterday she wants to move back in with her mom. So i could have some one come rent it out but im thinking i can jus grow in it and pay the rent myself. So the room is about a 9.5ft wide by 11.5 feet long and about 8-10 ft ceilings. This is in an apartment and i already have a nice 3x3 tent going in my room wiht a 600 watt hps and a small cloner cabinent. so i was thinking i cud do a veg room in the 3x3 tent in my room and was planning on either doing a 8x8 tent or possibly a 5x10 tent. I want to have a lil room around the tent to put stuff n a chair to smoke in there n such. So what do u think is my best bet inbetween the two choices.


What up? Thanks for stopping by. Glad to help. 

If I were you I would put all 3 tents in that room. Since you are in an apartment and I'm guessing that electricity is somewhat of an issue I would get a 4x8 tent. That is perfect for 2 600w lights. Then you would still have room for the 3x3 tent for your vegging plants and the clone tent for your clippings. 600w lights are better in tents anyway. Most tents are only 7' tall and putting 1000 lights in them is a fucking heating and plant height nightmare. You could also do the 5x10 tent with 600's and that would leave you room in the tent for other things like dehumidifiers, a/c units, etc.. 600w lights have a 4x4 footprint of optimal PAR lighting. If you use 600w lights you could get those Lumatek Dual Ballasts for like $300 and run 2 lights off 1 ballast. You have to wire them 240v from the breaker panel but that shouldn't be a problem since you'll have to run new electrical anyway. 

If you wanna get really ballsy you could do 2 4x8 tents on a FLIP in that room. Do them as a perpetual and you would be harvesting 1 tent every 4 weeks. Will cost more money up front cause you need a FLIP box, the extra hoods, extra bulbs, ducting, fans, etc... The ballasts would be the only thing you wouldn't need extra. 

Just brainstorming.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

This is what I have so far Thor. I need a lot more info to give you a more detailed plan and shopping list. This is assuming you put up a dividing wall in the basement at 15' and then seperate that room into 2 rooms.


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## thousanaire (Apr 8, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> What up? Thanks for stopping by. Glad to help.
> 
> If I were you I would put all 3 tents in that room. Since you are in an apartment and I'm guessing that electricity is somewhat of an issue I would get a 4x8 tent. That is perfect for 2 600w lights. Then you would still have room for the 3x3 tent for your vegging plants and the clone tent for your clippings. 600w lights are better in tents anyway. Most tents are only 7' tall and putting 1000 lights in them is a fucking heating and plant height nightmare. You could also do the 5x10 tent with 600's and that would leave you room in the tent for other things like dehumidifiers, a/c units, etc.. 600w lights have a 4x4 footprint of optimal PAR lighting. If you use 600w lights you could get those Lumatek Dual Ballasts for like $300 and run 2 lights off 1 ballast. You have to wire them 240v from the breaker panel but that shouldn't be a problem since you'll have to run new electrical anyway.
> 
> ...


I was thinking a 8x8 with four 600's and harvesting one 4x4 table every 2 weeks. Yea i am worried about the electricity getting wayy too high tho. Might go with the 4x8 and possibly add the flip tent later i like that idea. Save some money on the electricity and on the ballasts. So what amount of plants do u think is best i want to go a quick veg maybe go with a sog jus not with too too many plants.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

thousanaire said:


> I was thinking a 8x8 with four 600's and harvesting one 4x4 table every 2 weeks. Yea i am worried about the electricity getting wayy too high tho. Might go with the 4x8 and possibly add the flip tent later i like that idea. Save some money on the electricity and on the ballasts. So what amount of plants do u think is best i want to go a quick veg maybe go with a sog jus not with too too many plants.


You said you wanted room in your tents for stuff that you may need to put in there like a/c, dehumidifier, etc... You go with an 8x8 or 4x8 with 4 or 2 trays in there and you have NO room to put anything else. You kinda gotta figure out which way you want to go from the beginning or it will cost you more in the end. You have a 4x8 tent packed with 2 4x4 trays and it's gonna be a butch getting to some of the plants in the back. You can run your a/c and dehumidifier in the bedroom and control the environment in the tents with active intakes. Maybe run 4x8 tents with 3x3 tables and 400w lights. If you are doing a SOG then you won't need anything more than 400w and it has a footprint of 3x3. Gives you a little room to play with in the tent and also allows you to reach the back corners. Plus it's less electricity and cooling to worry about.

Doing a flip doesn't lower your electricity bill. It just splits the load you are running in half. Instead of running 4 lights for 12 hours a day you are running 2 lights for 24 hours a day basically. 12 hours in the first tent then 12 hours in the second tent. The reason for doing this is that sometimes you can't put all of that electrical load on your breaker panel cause you don't have enough free amperage. Therefore you split it in two and run them on different cycles. You could also get 240v ballasts which would help reduce the load on your panel if you wanted to run them all at the same time. It's hard to say when I don't know your exact electrical situation.

I'd set itup like this. Not all right away but 1 tent then another in the future. 9 plants per tray. 9 plants in veg. 400w lights. All the lights and a/c on a 240v subpanel. I would need more info to figure out the ducting, etc...If you have a breaker panel in the apartment or somewhere that only you have access to then running this setup would not be hard to wire up at all and really wouldn't use that much power. 400w lights use 3.6amps max. That would be 7amps at one time in lighting. That's 30% less than running a single 1000w light for 12 hours. You could easily get away with that. Then just run one of those Clone Lab 2x4 tents in your room that has the shelves in it. 3 moms on the bottom under a T5 and clones on the top shelf with some CFL's.


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## vertigo me (Apr 8, 2012)

Hi Phillip any luck with the design yet. From reading your comments to another forum user who has insufficient power to run his rooms i am going to opt for another subpanel upstairs, i am going to have a word with my electrician and hopefully the subpanel will be in place soon . I know you havent come up with a design for the rooms yet but wondering if you can give me a low down on what electrical equipment will be needed from lights to pumps/fans etc so i can start making a shopping list and pricing things up. If its easier to have my design up first and then go through the equipment then i will wait.

Thanks V


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

vertigo me said:


> Hi Phillip any luck with the design yet. From reading your comments to another forum user who has insufficient power to run his rooms i am going to opt for another subpanel upstairs, i am going to have a word with my electrician and hopefully the subpanel will be in place soon . I know you havent come up with a design for the rooms yet but wondering if you can give me a low down on what electrical equipment will be needed from lights to pumps/fans etc so i can start making a shopping list and pricing things up. If its easier to have my design up first and then go through the equipment then i will wait.
> 
> Thanks V


Hey Vertigo. I was waiting on you to get some answers from your electrician buddy. You currently have a 100 amp panel providing electricity to your entire house. You may not have room on that panel for the amount of electronics you want to put on it. And it's not as easy as just getting another panel. Plus you have a major issue with all of your outlets being on 1 breaker. I don't see how you will have the power to do what you want to do. I can design you a fantastic room but what's the point if you don't have the power to actually run it. You need to have your electrician friend come over and let you know exactly how many dedicated amps he can give you to that room. Once I know how much power you have available then I can design a room for you.


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## vertigo me (Apr 8, 2012)

Spoke to the electrician briefly and he says that i shouldnt have a problem as the ring circuit for the sockets are 32 Amp and aslong as i dont exceed 13amps per socket then i will be ok.
He did say that you possibly thought it wouldnt be possible as you are not converting it 240 volts. I did some calculations from what i believe and that is :
13 Amp = 3120 watts OR 2,220 watts safely (75% of full power)
SO
32 Amps = 7680 watts OR 5,769 watts safely (75% of full power)

So aslong as the total equipment dont exceed 5-6k watts i should be fine?


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## redcaes (Apr 8, 2012)

hi guys 

still kind of new at this and thought i was on my way until I hit a brick wall and had to rethink some things...maybe someone can help. i Have roughly 800 cubic feet in a room that is 12X8x15 minus 2 angled ceilings. I just finished a table and felt the buds we're a little too fluffy for my liking and was told co2 would firm things up a bit. looked into the cost of regulators tanks and supply and decided to go for it. I have a small 3x6 flood table with 1 1000 watt hps, 2 oscillating fans and managed to control ambient temp at a steady 25c and 45 humidity in the open room.

now co2 needs to be in a sealed environment for effectiveness, right? 
so I sealed up a 10X8X4 area and put mylar all around and prepared to test this out as the parts are already on the way and need to get this done first. turned on the lights and 2 and half hours later realized forgot the fan went in there and it looked like London fog or something it was a fricking sauna! lol rookie mistake I guess but I was reminded of the movie the Mist by stephen king, just hoping my ladies didn't die. 
so now I'm wondering if maybe I need a portable a/c in there to help out or will removing the reservoirs from the tents and putting the fans in do the job? 
the temp still read 25??? but humidity was at 75%!!!! i'm pretty sure that would be ok with co2 added but the mylar is so steamed I must be losing light efficiency. I've already paid for a sniffer and a regulator just picking up the tank this week so I'm pretty much all in at this point on the co2! lol

any help would be appreciated.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 8, 2012)

You saying 10 long 8 wide and 4 high? Or 10tf. Long 8ft. Tall and 4ft. Wide


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## redcaes (Apr 8, 2012)

sorry, 10' long 4' wide 8' high this is just for my flowering though, using aprrox' the same size for veg with 1000 watt mh in the open area and small cloning 3x3x3 area


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

vertigo me said:


> Spoke to the electrician briefly and he says that i shouldnt have a problem as the ring circuit for the sockets are 32 Amp and aslong as i dont exceed 13amps per socket then i will be ok.
> He did say that you possibly thought it wouldnt be possible as you are not converting it 240 volts. I did some calculations from what i believe and that is :
> 13 Amp = 3120 watts OR 2,220 watts safely (75% of full power)
> SO
> ...


Hey Vertigo. This is what I have so far. If you are only going to be growing plants to 3' tall then you won't need 3 lights. In this setup I have 18 plants under 2 lights. Based on your size plants you could easily fit 16 plants per 600w light in this room. 2 lights makes it easier to manage and less heat and power consumption. I have both lights being exhausted to the attic. I have your carbon filter being exhausted back into the room. You can try and do some kind of active or passive intake through the window first and see if that can maintain the temps. If not, then you will need to put in an a/c unit. Also, I wasn't sure if you were growing soil or hydro and if you were going to need a dehumidifier or humidifier. In this setup you have plenty of room for those things and more. With your ceiling height you can actually go up to 5' plants if you choose. You would have to change the layout slightly though. 4' plants would be just fine in the current layout. Let me know what you think and we'll get started on a list of equipment.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

redcaes said:


> hi guys
> 
> still kind of new at this and thought i was on my way until I hit a brick wall and had to rethink some things...maybe someone can help. i Have roughly 800 cubic feet in a room that is 12X8x15 minus 2 angled ceilings. I just finished a table and felt the buds we're a little too fluffy for my liking and was told co2 would firm things up a bit. looked into the cost of regulators tanks and supply and decided to go for it. I have a small 3x6 flood table with 1 1000 watt hps, 2 oscillating fans and managed to control ambient temp at a steady 25c and 45 humidity in the open room.
> 
> ...


Hey bud, I'm a little confused but I'll try my best to help. Hellraizer should probably chime in too.

If you have no issue controlling the temps then why not just get a portable dehumidifier. Seems like all you need to do is bring the humidity down. You could even put your dehumidifier on a stand and drain it to a reservoir. Dehumidifier runoff usuall has a ppm of around 25-40 and is very clean water. You would be able to use this water to feed your plants. 

I'm not sure if your buds being airy is from Co2. They way I was taught is that you add Co2 after everything else is dialed in and you can go 1-2 harvest without any major problems. For your plants to take afvantage of the Co2 made available by these systems they already need to be in PEAK condition. Adding Co2 will not help with humidity issues. Some growers incorrectly add Co2 to deal with high temperatures but I think this is a mistake. Plants are able to handle higher temps and actually process Co2 at higher temps then without it. This doesn't mean you should add the Co2 because you can't control the temperatures in your room. Just my opinion. 

I hope that helped. If you have any other specific questions let me know.

Anyone else have any suggestions?


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## thousanaire (Apr 8, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> You said you wanted room in your tents for stuff that you may need to put in there like a/c, dehumidifier, etc... You go with an 8x8 or 4x8 with 4 or 2 trays in there and you have NO room to put anything else. You kinda gotta figure out which way you want to go from the beginning or it will cost you more in the end. You have a 4x8 tent packed with 2 4x4 trays and it's gonna be a butch getting to some of the plants in the back. You can run your a/c and dehumidifier in the bedroom and control the environment in the tents with active intakes. Maybe run 4x8 tents with 3x3 tables and 400w lights. If you are doing a SOG then you won't need anything more than 400w and it has a footprint of 3x3. Gives you a little room to play with in the tent and also allows you to reach the back corners. Plus it's less electricity and cooling to worry about.
> 
> Doing a flip doesn't lower your electricity bill. It just splits the load you are running in half. Instead of running 4 lights for 12 hours a day you are running 2 lights for 24 hours a day basically. 12 hours in the first tent then 12 hours in the second tent. The reason for doing this is that sometimes you can't put all of that electrical load on your breaker panel cause you don't have enough free amperage. Therefore you split it in two and run them on different cycles. You could also get 240v ballasts which would help reduce the load on your panel if you wanted to run them all at the same time. It's hard to say when I don't know your exact electrical situation.
> 
> ...



Dude that shit is bad ass i jus downloaded smart pro and made one too but yours is way nicer. what i was saying about the having extra space i meant in the actual room not in the tent i have a 3x3 tent with a 3x3 tray and still have room to hang fans n stuff. so i would probally wanna go with 4x4 trays and 600 watters. How much electrical work would it take to plug in 4 600s and what do u think wud be the cost of electricity per month my pg&e costs .12c a kw but when i go over the 100% usage median it goes up to .22 and .32 so i kno i wud be paying a lot in electricty. But i also have the 30% care discount. Ok also do u guys think the apartment can kick me out for growing even tho its all medical??


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## thousanaire (Apr 8, 2012)

my attempt doesnt look as good as the professinals tho.




This would be if i stuffed a 8x8 tent in the room and with 4 4x4 trays under 4 600 watts althought i kinda do like the two separate tents idea. It seems like it would be easier for me to actually get to the plants. 

So if i did two 4x4s in each 4x8 tent would i be able to fit 32 plants in each.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

thousanaire said:


> Dude that shit is bad ass i jus downloaded smart pro and made one too but yours is way nicer. what i was saying about the having extra space i meant in the actual room not in the tent i have a 3x3 tent with a 3x3 tray and still have room to hang fans n stuff. so i would probally wanna go with 4x4 trays and 600 watters. How much electrical work would it take to plug in 4 600s and what do u think wud be the cost of electricity per month my pg&e costs .12c a kw but when i go over the 100% usage median it goes up to .22 and .32 so i kno i wud be paying a lot in electricty. But i also have the 30% care discount. Ok also do u guys think the apartment can kick me out for growing even tho its all medical??


Hey bud, couple things.

A 600w light running 12/12 would cost you about $50 a month if you were paying the $0.22 rate. So figure 4 of them would be around $200 a month plus add another 60% to that for other equipment and you are at $320 a month in extra electricity. Maybe closer to $400 if you are kicked into the $0.32 tier.

A 3x3 tent with one light is easy to cool. An 8x8 tent with 4 lights is going to require a dedicated a/c and probably a dehumidifier. The electrical probably wouldn't be an issue. You could run all 4 lights off 1 light controller that you wired 240v. Then just get 240v ballasts and you'll only be drawing 11 amps with all that light. Your electricity bill would be the same but you would be reducing the draw on your power board so that you would be able to fit all that equipment on there and not overload it. You could probably get a portable a/c that is wired 240v as well. Not sure though.

I really can't comment on the whole apartment situation. I mean, since you are legal then I would immagine that they can't really say anything. But I am also pretty sure that they have rules to prevent fire hazards and such. Get a copy of your lease and look it over to see what it says regarding fire hazards, electrical work, etc...




thousanaire said:


> my attempt doesnt look as good as the professinals tho.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2113036
> ...


I think you are forgetting a couple things here. First off, even with a tent that is 9x9 you won't be able to fit 4 4x4 table in there. Those tables have 2-4" lips on them so they are really more like 4'6". At that size you wouldn't be able to walk in the tent at all. You would have to go around back to get to the other tables and reservoirs. You also woudn't be able to reach the plants in the middle. The other issue I see is that you would have no room for a dehumidifier or anything else you would need in there. Doing a 3x3 tent is easy but a tent that big is going to require that you be able to get inside of it and have some room to put other equipment or even lower the lights if need be. Even if you got a portable a/c and ducted it somehow into the tent that really wouldn't be all that efficient. I can tell you that you aren't going to be able to control temps with passive and active ports. You are going to need spot a/c units. That's why I suggested the 2 tents. Less amperage on your board at 1 time. Only have to buy half the ballasts. If you bought those Lumatek Dual Ballasts you would only need 1 and a FLIP box. It would also be a lot easier to cool 2 lights in a tent instead of 4. You might be able to do it with a portable a/c in the room and active inline fan intakes hooked up to thermostat controllers.

If you did a SOG then I think you'd have no problem fitting 16 on each tray. That's basically 1sq.ft. per plant. which seems like plenty to me. You could grow 2-3' plants in 3 gallon mesh pots with hydroton in the pots and the tray and you would have room to work with.


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## vertigo me (Apr 8, 2012)

Hey Phillip thanks for that mate. So looking at the plan and from what your saying i could fit 16 plants in 11 litre pots under one 600w light? I see from the design you have got them 9 under each if i had 100% germ success then i could easily fit them under also? I am going to look at a few grow diaries and see what they got from veggin them longer, because as you say i have room for 5'. If i did go that route which would produce a larger yield could you be so kind as to show me the layout i would need. Also to add if i did grow 5' im guessing i would have to veg them untill approx 2' so how many T5's would i be looking at taking into consideration i am looking at doing a perpetual cycle.

As for the 'air intake' i was possibly thinking do a few holes or vents in the ply board over the window to allow air in OR have a fan and draw air in. If i used the fan and then hooked both the extractor fan and intake fan to a temperature controller unit so it will control the fans and keep a constant temp. Will this work in my situation?

Many Thanks and rep +
V


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## thousanaire (Apr 8, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Hey bud, couple things.
> 
> A 600w light running 12/12 would cost you about $50 a month if you were paying the $0.22 rate. So figure 4 of them would be around $200 a month plus add another 60% to that for other equipment and you are at $320 a month in extra electricity. Maybe closer to $400 if you are kicked into the $0.32 tier.
> 
> ...


Ok well i guess its a good thing i didnt give u rep yet cuz that answer definatly deserves it bro. Ur the man bro. yea i was thinking that two i think the idea with two tents would be better but i went in today and measured it out while she was gone  haha and unfourtunalty the door is like right at 8 feet so two 4x8s wouldnt work so i get all sad but then i get the great idea i cud jus do a 3x6 and a 4x8. ok so im trying to be as cool as you how do u like this layout..


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## thousanaire (Apr 8, 2012)

ok here goes im gettin alil better with each one. haha i better pratice quick i only have 7 days on my free trial


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

vertigo me said:


> Hey Phillip thanks for that mate. So looking at the plan and from what your saying i could fit 16 plants in 11 litre pots under one 600w light? I see from the design you have got them 9 under each if i had 100% germ success then i could easily fit them under also? I am going to look at a few grow diaries and see what they got from veggin them longer, because as you say i have room for 5'. If i did go that route which would produce a larger yield could you be so kind as to show me the layout i would need. Also to add if i did grow 5' im guessing i would have to veg them untill approx 2' so how many T5's would i be looking at taking into consideration i am looking at doing a perpetual cycle.
> 
> As for the 'air intake' i was possibly thinking do a few holes or vents in the ply board over the window to allow air in OR have a fan and draw air in. If i used the fan and then hooked both the extractor fan and intake fan to a temperature controller unit so it will control the fans and keep a constant temp. Will this work in my situation?
> 
> ...


Hey Vertigo, thanks for the rep.

A 600w light has a optimal footprint of 4x4. If you are going to squeeze these limits then I just siggest you rotate smaller plants to the middle and keep taller ones on the outside. It also helps to rotate your plants 90 degrees every few days. A 3 gallon pot is like 8" wide I think so you should have no problem fitting 16 in that space. Just really depends on your growing style. If you are doing single cola SOG then no problem at all. If you train your plants (LST, Supercropping, etc..) then 9 would be a safer bet. The reason I put 9 in your design was because you said you wanted to stay under 20 plants. If you squeezed 16 under each light and added another 600w in the middle you could do 50-60 plants easy. 

If you go with 5' plants figure on 2sq.ft. per plant. That means you would only be able to fit MAYBE 4 plants under each light. The bigger your plants the less plants you can fit under a light. I suggested going with bigger plants cause sometimes they are easier to managae then a bunch of smaller ones. If you go bigger you are going to need a lot more light or a lot less plants. Either way; if you are a good grower then SOG is probably the most efficient horizontal method for high yields. I'd stick with SOG if I were you. If not, you are looking at a lot fewer plants or a lot more money and electricity in lights, fans, a/c, etc...

If you were to place plywood over the window then I would pull air from outside through your lights and vent it into the attic. This will actually cool your lights more and give you a closed system so you wouldn't have to worry about smell being in your attic. Then I would put an inline fan hooked up to a thermostat controller on the window as well. Have that bringing fresh air into the room based on demand. Use the filter to just scrub the air in the room. You will need the intake to be active because with that much heat passive intakes won't do the job.

Lastly, I am assuming you are running your lights at night. If you are running them during the day you will 100% need an a/c. You may still need an a/c if it is warm during the day because even if your lights aren't on you will eed to bring cool air into the room and bringing in 85 degree air from outside is not gonna help. Even if you are running them at night; depending on your outside temps at night; you still might need an a/c.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

thousanaire said:


> ok here goes im gettin alil better with each one. haha i better pratice quick i only have 7 days on my free trial


Think you've got bro. Looks great to me. That is exactly how I would lay it out. Only problem I see is that if you use 400w lights in the smaller tent then you won't be able to use a FLIP box. You'd have to get another 2 ballasts. Also, before you buy any tents or trays, double check all the measurements. A lot of those tenst say 4x8 but are actually up to a foot biiger or smaller than that. Had a buddy get a 4x8 tent that couldn't even fit a 3x6 tray because the tent was really like 3'8" wide on the exterior and 3'5" on the interior. The tray he got has 3" lips on all sides so it wouldn't fit. He had to shave the lips off the tray.

Now you just need to figure out hoy you're going to cool that room and those tents. You're gonna need a portable a/c or 2 and access to a window or attic to vent them and the lights.


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## kamie (Apr 8, 2012)

hey phillip for veg do u use 1k's or 600's? i have 2 1k's atm but i wanna add another. not sure if i should do 2 1k's and 1 600 in between or do all 600's instead


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## thousanaire (Apr 8, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Think you've got bro. Looks great to me. That is exactly how I would lay it out. Only problem I see is that if you use 400w lights in the smaller tent then you won't be able to use a FLIP box. You'd have to get another 2 ballasts. Also, before you buy any tents or trays, double check all the measurements. A lot of those tenst say 4x8 but are actually up to a foot biiger or smaller than that. Had a buddy get a 4x8 tent that couldn't even fit a 3x6 tray because the tent was really like 3'8" wide on the exterior and 3'5" on the interior. The tray he got has 3" lips on all sides so it wouldn't fit. He had to shave the lips off the tray.
> 
> Now you just need to figure out hoy you're going to cool that room and those tents. You're gonna need a portable a/c or 2 and access to a window or attic to vent them and the lights.



yea i have a big long window that was the thing was at the end. So ok im drawing stuff up and i was wondering what do u think about doing a rotating set up where i start off with 35 clones i would have 32 plants in 1g smartpots in the veg tent for 4 weeks under T5s or a 400w MH then move them to 32 3g smartpots in the 3x6 for 4 weeks then drop them in 32 5g smart pots for the last 4 weeks in the 4x8 tent under the 600w Hps. Do you think that many pots would fit in the 3x3 tent and the 3x6. And would that be doing way too much transplanting 3 times or would that be cool cuz i cud add some vegg addmenments to first pots(1g) and then put flowering ammendmants to the 2nd(3g) and 3rd pots(5g)


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

kamie said:


> hey phillip for veg do u use 1k's or 600's? i have 2 1k's atm but i wanna add another. not sure if i should do 2 1k's and 1 600 in between or do all 600's instead


I use 1000w lights for vegging and my moms. I clone and root them under T5's until that are rooted in 1.5" rockwool cubes. Then I transfer them to 4" blocks and move them to MH light. 

For you it just depends how much more light you need. If you have 1000w lights in there already then just add another 1000w so that you have even footprints side by side. Light intensity has nothing to do with quality of plant in veg to a certain point. I mean you can't veg 50 plants under 2 fluoro tubes but if you stay within the footprints of your light then a 1000w, 600w, and 400w light all do the same thing. Your plants don't need that much light during veg. This is why they invented light movers. They are for vegging plants; not for flowering them.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

thousanaire said:


> yea i have a big long window that was the thing was at the end. So ok im drawing stuff up and i was wondering what do u think about doing a rotating set up where i start off with 35 clones i would have 32 plants in 1g smartpots in the veg tent for 4 weeks under T5s or a 400w MH then move them to 32 3g smartpots in the 3x6 for 4 weeks then drop them in 32 5g smart pots for the last 4 weeks in the 4x8 tent under the 600w Hps. Do you think that many pots would fit in the 3x3 tent and the 3x6. And would that be doing way too much transplanting 3 times or would that be cool cuz i cud add some vegg addmenments to first pots(1g) and then put flowering ammendmants to the 2nd(3g) and 3rd pots(5g)


Couple issue I see. You aren't fitting 32 one gallon pots in a 3x3 tent. Maybe 16-20 but not 32. Second, if you veg plants for 4 weeks then you aren't fitting 32 in 5 gallon pots in a 4x8 tent. Those plants will be 4-6' tall and need 2sq.ft. per plant. I wouldn't want to deal with constantly having to move those pots around. The whole point of a perpetual is to not have to do that. Just harvest 1 tray every 2 weeks. A simple solution to your problem is to turn the door to the room around. Have it open outward and you'll have no problem fitting 2 4x8 tents in there.


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## kamie (Apr 8, 2012)

hey phillip how far do you keep each hood apart? in my flower room i have 4 magnum xxxl's i keep them about 3 ft apart. is that too little? should i keep them further apart?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

kamie said:


> hey phillip how far do you keep each hood apart? in my flower room i have 4 magnum xxxl's i keep them about 3 ft apart. is that too little? should i keep them further apart?


I have the same hoods with 1000w bulbs. I heep mine 6' apart. A 1000w light has a footprint of 5x5 when 18" from your plant canopy. That means 2'6" in all directions from the bulb. You can add a little more when you have 2 lights side by side because the extra foot in the middle is receiving tlight from 2 bulbs which add up to sufficient footcandles.


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## BLAZDBANDIT (Apr 8, 2012)

Hey phil
ive got another question for you: venting my room and cooling lights with an inline set-up, 800cf space. This is the order of setup can 66, 8" inline (720cfm), 8" ducting, 1000w/hps, 8" ducting, 1000w/hps, 8" ducting through a/c vent duct in ceiling. Question is my room is setting pretty steady @86 degrees during the lighting period according to my probe im wondering if i move the inline fan to the end of the lights right before the vent will it work that much more effectively and lower my temp anymore? have 6"ducting along bottom of floor feed with 6"inline(400cfm). Trying anything to not have to run ac and summer is coming in CA soon, any ideas?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

Move your fan as close as you can to the ceiling. Mount it on the a/c vent duct if you can. Inline fans are much better if ised to pull air rather than push it. The way you have it set up you are creating positive pressure in your reflectors which is probably pushing hot air into your room.


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## BLAZDBANDIT (Apr 8, 2012)

and this will still be sufficient to pull air through the filter at the opposite end


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

BLAZDBANDIT said:


> and this will still be sufficient to pull air through the filter at the opposite end


What kind of fan is it. I would say 90% of all inline fans don't pull their rated CFM's. Some don't even pull half. What brand is yours? If it's a straight shot with just a curve upwrd to the ceiling you should be fine. Get your filter as close to your hood as possible to reduce the ducting run. Take out as many curves as you can in the ducting.


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## thousanaire (Apr 8, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Couple issue I see. You aren't fitting 32 one gallon pots in a 3x3 tent. Maybe 16-20 but not 32. Second, if you veg plants for 4 weeks then you aren't fitting 32 in 5 gallon pots in a 4x8 tent. Those plants will be 4-6' tall and need 2sq.ft. per plant. I wouldn't want to deal with constantly having to move those pots around. The whole point of a perpetual is to not have to do that. Just harvest 1 tray every 2 weeks. A simple solution to your problem is to turn the door to the room around. Have it open outward and you'll have no problem fitting 2 4x8 tents in there.


Ok so then it would be best to jus fill em up tray by tray every two weeks jus transplanting 16 of them from one gals in the veg tent into the trays in the 4x8 tents n jus leaving em in five gals for eight weeks. So next question if im doing four trays at seperate times I need to have different ratios of nutes for all the different stages. do u kno how to set up auto watering like a sprinkler or somethimg


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## BLAZDBANDIT (Apr 8, 2012)

its a hydrofarm 8" rated for 720cfm and im gonna have to have 3 90 here is a ghetto ass drawing i could draft real quick


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

thousanaire said:


> Ok so then it would be best to jus fill em up tray by tray every two weeks jus transplanting 16 of them from one gals in the veg tent into the trays in the 4x8 tents n jus leaving em in five gals for eight weeks. So next question if im doing four trays at seperate times I need to have different ratios of nutes for all the different stages. do u kno how to set up auto watering like a sprinkler or somethimg


I'm lost. Why are you putting plants in 5 gallon pots? You said you were growing short plants; maybe SOG. You don't need pots that big to grow short plants. I would veg them for 2 weeks in 1 gallon pots and then transplant them 1 to 3 gallon pots 1 week before you swithc them to flower. That way; depending on the strain you will get 30-36" plants. You can't grow much taller then that. All those bigger tents are at most 7' tall. With a light hanging in there and the distance you need to keep the plants from the light you only have 5' really. Then you have to have tables and reservoirs. You will never need a 5 gallon pot.

If you have 4 trays then you have 4 different nutrient mixes that you are making every week. Your mixes never change. What changes is the reservoir that you add those mixes to. For example...every week you will be mixing a 200-400ppm solution, a 600-800ppm solution, a 1000-1200ppm solution, and a 1000ppm or flush solution. The only thing that will change is every 2 weeks those solution will be going in different reservoirs. You should have a square reservoir under ever tray. Then you would use a water pump, tubing, timer, and drip stakes to feed each plant. Or you could do hydro (clone your plants in rockwool then move them to hydroton) and just flood the tables 3-4 times a day. Either way is very simple.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

BLAZDBANDIT said:


> its a hydrofarm 8" rated for 720cfm and im gonna have to have 3 90View attachment 2113495 here is a ghetto ass drawing i could draft real quick


Get your filter as close as you can to your light. Reduce the ducting distance as much as you can. If it is the green fan you bought off Hydrofarm.com then that is actually an Active Air fan. No offense but those fans are dogshit. I would still make the changes because it is going to help. If you still have problems with the heat afterward then look into a fan that actually does what it is rated for. I would recommend the CAN High Output 8" Inline Fan. Those are what I use and they actually do achieve their rated CFM. I've also heard good things about the Vortex Fans.


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## BLAZDBANDIT (Apr 8, 2012)

phil greatly appreciate it man


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## phillipchristian (Apr 8, 2012)

BLAZDBANDIT said:


> phil greatly appreciate it man


I'm here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitress..

My pleasure bud...


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## thousanaire (Apr 9, 2012)

Yea thanks phil ur the man ill let u kno and send u some pic when I start to setup the room.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 9, 2012)

Hey phillip got a ?

That heat exchanger has a baffel that stops the water from moving through! When the therma stat shuts the fans off!
So ho do i setup a pump to shut off during this time, to eliminate it from dead heading and burning up! Any ideas


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## phillipchristian (Apr 9, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey phillip got a ?
> 
> That heat exchanger has a baffel that stops the water from moving through! When the therma stat shuts the fans off!
> So ho do i setup a pump to shut off during this time, to eliminate it from dead heading and burning up! Any ideas


That's crazy, you sure it isn't just routed to different port? You would think they would let the water continue to run and just shut off the fans. Water pumps are really designed for continuous use anyway. Or at least just have the water routed through an auxiliary port. That's really weird Hell. I'll think about it but I bet the guys at H&M will have a logical answer for you if you call them tomorrow.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 9, 2012)

Well i did talk to them and they said stuff like re wiring it to run the pump power cord from the unit!
But thats not plug and play as it was sold to be! Guess RV pump can be dead headed so i might look
Into one of those.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 9, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Well i did talk to them and they said stuff like re wiring it to run the pump power cord from the unit!
> But thats not plug and play as it was sold to be! Guess RV pump can be dead headed so i might look
> Into one of those.


That's kinda bogus on their part. I mean they must know you are going to be hooking up a water pump. Any way to trip the relay on the baffle or lock it open? Maybe you could just wire a simple bridge and trick it to think it's always on?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 9, 2012)

Thats a trick idea i will look into a wiring on it and see


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## vertigo me (Apr 9, 2012)

Thanks for the reply Phillip. I have looked more in to a perpetual grow cycle and found a great link on this forum https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/6592-get-harvest-every-2-weeks.html. Its alot of pages and just started reading it but am liking the idea and would like your take on it. I was thinking 1 Msq tray with 25x3.4ltr square pots. Sorry to mess you about but taking this into consideration and how the guy has his perpetual grow cycle could you adjust the room/rooms accordingly. I will also read thoroughly through that thread and will update you with any relevant information. Just took into coinsideration that for this style cycle i will need 4 lighting systems so thats 4 x 600 watts. As you know i want to keep the power consumption and costing down. Have i hit a brick wall with trying a perpetual grow?

And from understanding what you are saying with the intakes/ventialtion i will be looking at 3 fans then one to draw in from the window, one to extract from the hoods through the attic and one connected to a carbon filter, is that right? Living in the UK the temperatures are never high sometimes we may get a few days of mid to low 20's (celcius) but the majority of the time its 10 celcius. Winter even colder  So taking this into account getting cold air into the room shouldnt be an issue should it and the need of an aircon unit shouldnt be needed? I will be looking at running the lights at night aswell and i would like to mention the temp at night here can get quite low to single figures, even on a hot day 20 celcius the temp can drop below 10 celcius in the night. Also from alot of grow diaries on a UK forum they use parabolic or open hoods would you still stay stick to the vented hoods as outside temperature rarely gets upto mid teens for any length of time. Im not contradicting you just making you aware of the temperatures so i can get the best setup ..

Lastly what are your suggestions for lighting them in Veg? i was looking at maxibright T5's 4' 8way possibly and what lights would you recommend for the mums.

Many thanks again and again
V


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## redcaes (Apr 9, 2012)

de humidifier was on the list for sure but just didn't want to have to buy an a/c later so I was looking at a 3-1 with de humidier included in case it does get too hot in there at some point. I still haven't tested the tent with the mh light on for 18 hours next to it so I'm not sure if that will affect the heat at all. I know for sure it is going to get hotter up there in july and august so I may as well be ready for the heat!

didn't know about the runoff being good enough for the plants that could be very useful since i need to top off the reservoir on a regular basis anyways.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 9, 2012)

Just make sure you get one thats rated larger than your room. This will allow it to not run constantly.
The one i went with was ideal air and it plugs 240v so theres savings right there!


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## phishtank (Apr 9, 2012)

just because its 240V doesnt mean it will use any less power then 120V...just means that you pull less amps....js.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 9, 2012)

vertigo me said:


> Thanks for the reply Phillip. I have looked more in to a perpetual grow cycle and found a great link on this forum https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/6592-get-harvest-every-2-weeks.html. Its alot of pages and just started reading it but am liking the idea and would like your take on it. I was thinking 1 Msq tray with 25x3.4ltr square pots. Sorry to mess you about but taking this into consideration and how the guy has his perpetual grow cycle could you adjust the room/rooms accordingly. I will also read thoroughly through that thread and will update you with any relevant information. Just took into coinsideration that for this style cycle i will need 4 lighting systems so thats 4 x 600 watts. As you know i want to keep the power consumption and costing down. Have i hit a brick wall with trying a perpetual grow?
> 
> And from understanding what you are saying with the intakes/ventialtion i will be looking at 3 fans then one to draw in from the window, one to extract from the hoods through the attic and one connected to a carbon filter, is that right? Living in the UK the temperatures are never high sometimes we may get a few days of mid to low 20's (celcius) but the majority of the time its 10 celcius. Winter even colder  So taking this into account getting cold air into the room shouldnt be an issue should it and the need of an aircon unit shouldnt be needed? I will be looking at running the lights at night aswell and i would like to mention the temp at night here can get quite low to single figures, even on a hot day 20 celcius the temp can drop below 10 celcius in the night. Also from alot of grow diaries on a UK forum they use parabolic or open hoods would you still stay stick to the vented hoods as outside temperature rarely gets upto mid teens for any length of time. Im not contradicting you just making you aware of the temperatures so i can get the best setup ..
> 
> ...


I'll work on something for you but I don't think you will be able to fit 4 600w lights on your electrical. I'm almost sure you won't. You don't need 4 lights to do a perpetual. Especially since you are in soil. You just need plants at different stages of flower and veg. The lighting doesn't have to be seperate. You can also do a perpetual where you harvest half your plants every month. Anyway, there is no way you are getting 4 lights on that 1 outlet in that room woth all of the fans and other stuff you will need. Also, sounds like you will be using 1 gallon pots to do this. That means you will have smaller plants that will basically be a SOG. You can't grow big plants in those small pots. You will probably veg them for 1 week at the maximum before putting them into flower. How beg is the tray you will be using?


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## vertigo me (Apr 9, 2012)

Hows things Phil, been reading on that thread i linked you to basically since i posted the link bar a few J's to let things sink in. The guy used a 8x9 foot room and was using 3x3 trays with approx 20 pots of approx 7" dia. He was using 2x1000hps lights with large parabolic reflectors with a reflector thing to stop burn on closer plants. So basically 2 trays were covered by the one light. His grow medium was rockwool and rockwool floc. He says growing with soil is not a gd idea for costing and also with rockwool due to constantly potting its the ease of use and watering is easier. When he cuts his clones he keeps them under fluro light for around 10-12 days and then puts them straight into flower room.
As for the power in the room i can draw 20 Amps from the one double socket from my research and there is also another double socket directly out of the door that i could run a extension lead from etc. The size of the trays i was looking at were going to be 3x3.

What are your thoughts on this as i am looking at producing high yield in short time continually 

I have to shoot out now but will read more into that thread and hopefully be more prepared

Many thanks
V


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## Rrog (Apr 10, 2012)

I'm remodeling a house. Would like a small hidden room to grow just for my own use. Don't need a lot of space. Would like separate veg and flower rooms. Would have 9' ceilings. I can add whatever for power, water and waste. 

I was initially thinking of a 8x10 Veg / work / Mother room and 6 x 10 Flower room. No CO2, and I'd plan to use 1000W HPS. 

Do these dimensions seem OK?


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## 1337hacker (Apr 10, 2012)

I'm getting an 18k BTU Minisplit and want to know how many watts I should run in my room in a closed system. I can vent the lights through the attic if need be, but it's hot here in the summer don't know if I will really be reaping any benefits or if I should just run them open...

The room is at maximum 11x11 (but I can limit the space if need be) and as I said we have extreme temps in the summers (temperate winters though don't need to heat)

I was thinking 3kw, but have an extra 400, 600 and 1kw on top of that so I could run 3400, 3600 or 4000watts

If I am adding it all up... I get :

3 x 4K BTU (for the 1000w lights) = 12000 BTU
1 x 2150 BTU (for the dehuey) = 2150 BTU
100 SQ ft x 40 btu / sqft (for ambient cooling)= 4000 BTU

total 18150 btu


roughly 18k BTU Right there... am I over doing it on the lights? Should I only be running like 2600 or something? 

Thanks for the help


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## phillipchristian (Apr 10, 2012)

Rrog said:


> I'm building a house. Would like a small hidden room to grow just for my own use. Don't need a lot of space. Would like separate veg and flower rooms. Would have 9' ceilings. I can add whatever for power, water and waste.
> 
> I was initially thinking of a 8x10 Veg / work / Mother room and 6 x 10 Flower room. No CO2, and I'd plan to use 1000W HPS.
> 
> Do these dimensions seem OK?


Seems fine to me; I can't really tell if I don't know what you are trying to put in there. You'll have plenty of extra room in your veg area for storage and workspace since it is bigger than your flower room. Try and design your rooms to fit the lights and plant layout you are going to have since you will be building your room. For example; if you want to use 2 1000w lights in your flower room then plan on a 5x10 area for your plant and then build around that while taking into account your need for other space to accomodate dehumidifiers, a/c units, reservoirs, fans, etc...


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## phillipchristian (Apr 10, 2012)

1337hacker said:


> I'm getting an 18k BTU Minisplit and want to know how many watts I should run in my room in a closed system. I can vent the lights through the attic if need be, but it's hot here in the summer don't know if I will really be reaping any benefits or if I should just run them open...
> 
> The room is at maximum 11x11 (but I can limit the space if need be) and as I said we have extreme temps in the summers (temperate winters though don't need to heat)
> 
> ...


4,000btu per light if they are sufficiently air cooled and vented out of the room. More like 8,000btu if they are not vented. If you have extreme temps n the summer then I would make is 5,000btu for ambient cooling. These are the base requirements. Remeber that you will most likepy have other equipment in the room that produces heat. Plus you should oversize the unit based on these numbers. I would go with 24,000btu. Can't be that much more expensive and will be a lot more efficient as it won't have to run as much. You might find an 18,000btu unit running 24/7 to keep up.


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## kamie (Apr 10, 2012)

hey phillip wats the difference between using 6 in aircooled hoods and 8 in aircooled hoods? is it for how many hoods u use? so the more hoods then you would use 8 and less hoods you would use 6? also for ur veg room do u aircool those hoods too?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 10, 2012)

kamie said:


> hey phillip wats the difference between using 6 in aircooled hoods and 8 in aircooled hoods? is it for how many hoods u use? so the more hoods then you would use 8 and less hoods you would use 6? also for ur veg room do u aircool those hoods too?


8" hoods are a little more expensive and they let you move more air through them. You can cool a 1000w light in a 6" hood. Maybe even 2 if you have a good fan and the ducting run is straight. Anymore then that and you really want 8" hoods. Also, if you have to run curved ducting or long runs then having 8" hoods helps.

I would aircool all of your hoods if you can. The cost of hoods, ducting, and a fan will be paid for in energy savings from not having to run your a/c as much. Plus it lengthens your bulb life.


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## Rrog (Apr 10, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Seems fine to me; I can't really tell if I don't know what you are trying to put in there. You'll have plenty of extra room in your veg area for storage and workspace since it is bigger than your flower room. Try and design your rooms to fit the lights and plant layout you are going to have since you will be building your room. For example; if you want to use 2 1000w lights in your flower room then plan on a 5x10 area for your plant and then build around that while taking into account your need for other space to accomodate dehumidifiers, a/c units, reservoirs, fans, etc...


I had planned for two 1000W lights for flower. Overhead, not vertical. That would use a 5x10 footprint, then? Good to know. 8x10 seems good for veg for the extra space as you said. 

Thanks



phillipchristian said:


> You can cool a 1000w light in a 6" hood. Maybe even 2 if you have a good fan and the ducting run is straight.


How long would the straight run have to be for two 1000W 6" hoods? 10' ? Ambient room temp with lights of I assume would be 65F, as this is a basement. I'd like to avoid AC and handle cooling with a lot of air movement through carbon filters exhausting into the rest of the basement in a hidden fashion. No exhaust to the outside.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 10, 2012)

Rrog said:


> How long would the straight run have to be for two 1000W 6" hoods? 10' ? Ambient room temp with lights of I assume would be 65F, as this is a basement. I'd like to avoid AC and handle cooling with a lot of air movement through carbon filters exhausting into the rest of the basement in a hidden fashion. No exhaust to the outside.


You'd be beter off with 8" hoods then. If you have no a/c and are only using intakes then I would try and move as much air throught those hoods as possible. Look at the 8" High Output Can Fan. Try not to use different size fans and ducting. Not very efficient when you have a bunch of duct reducers in your setup. If you aren't exhausting anything outside then your basement is gonna be hot as hell. Where are you going to draw air from to cool your room? If you are exhausting your lights and heat into the rest of the basement then you will need another areas from which to draw cool air. I don't know your setup so maybe you have something that will work.


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## Rrog (Apr 10, 2012)

Hmmm... I only have a single 600W running now in a 4' x 3' x 54" and with 6" exhaust to balance of basement. Stays cool in there, but I have three 6" centrifugal fans controlling airflow from the cooler basement. I didn't grasp the heat. 

I don't know what I'd have for lights in the new veg room (open to suggestions) but obviously heat is built up there also. I'll have to join the ranks of those that have AC, I guess. I'll check out your water cooled grow rooms thread.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 10, 2012)

You might not be ready for water cooling just yet. It's easy to keep 1 light cool but you are gonna have a lot of wattage. A/C is really gonna be necessary if you can't vent outside. Even then your basement is going to be hot as hell outside of your grow room. May have to leave some windows open.


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## kamie (Apr 10, 2012)

hey phillip so i've decided to set up my other two rooms and was wondering if you can help me with the design. can you tell me what details you need? also how do i measure my ceilings if theyre really high?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 10, 2012)

kamie said:


> hey phillip so i've decided to set up my other two rooms and was wondering if you can help me with the design. can you tell me what details you need? also how do i measure my ceilings if theyre really high?


I need to know: 

dimensions of the rooms (just estimate height of the ceiling)
where are the windows and doors and how big are they
what lights are you gonna be using
how big do you grow your plants (SOG, SCROG, 4' trees)
hydro or soil. if hydro then what type
hood and fan sizes and ducting sizes
will you have a/c or will you be using intakes. where do you want to vent the lights.
a/c or dehumidifier in the room. ballasts and electrical in the room

that should be enough to get me started.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 10, 2012)

Hey phillip got another question lol!! How large of a pump would i need to push water through x2 of those 3/8 x 50 wort
Chillers? If you can post a link


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## Gastanker (Apr 10, 2012)

Phillip, you might be interested in this - https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/519884-free-lighting-cad-program-attention.html#post7279409


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## phillipchristian (Apr 11, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey phillip got another question lol!! How large of a pump would i need to push water through x2 of those 3/8 x 50 wort
> Chillers? If you can post a link


Hey Hellraizer, considering how efficient those things are I don't think you need much of a pump at all. I have the resevoir that feed my room at 57 degrees and I still have to close the valve on my Wort's like 50% just so it won't get too cold. She holds at around 62-64. I would say even one of those Ebb & Flow 200gph pumps would be more than enough. If you wanted to play it on the safe side then just get a 350gph mag drive pump (http://www.greners.com/i/hydroponics/components/water-pumps/mag-drive-pumps.html) and "T" it to the 2 Wort's. Dont pump it straight line through 1 and then the other. Your second reservoir won't cool as much that way. Another tip is to install T-Ball valves before each Wort. This will allow you to remove 1 if you need to and also restrict flow if it gets too cold.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 11, 2012)

Gastanker said:


> Phillip, you might be interested in this - https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/519884-free-lighting-cad-program-attention.html#post7279409


Hey Gastanker, I was just checking out your thread man. Very cool stuff. I use autoCad 3D for a lot of our development projects and for actual rooms that I've built. I'm gonna check that DIALux program out for sure. Thanks.


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## Rrog (Apr 11, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> You might not be ready for water cooling just yet. It's easy to keep 1 light cool but you are gonna have a lot of wattage. A/C is really gonna be necessary if you can't vent outside. Even then your basement is going to be hot as hell outside of your grow room. May have to leave some windows open.


Thanks for the help. So if I have two 1000W in flower room and maybe two more in veg (?) that's not enough to warrant water cooling? Is that your point?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 11, 2012)

Rrog said:


> Thanks for the help. So if I have two 1000W in flower room and maybe two more in veg (?) that's not enough to warrant water cooling? Is that your point?


If you have two 1000w lights in your flower you won't need that much in your veg room. You can do your clones with T5's, your moms with a 400-600w and your vegging plants under a 600-1000w.

Here's the deal, water cooling is expensive for smaller setups. The larger the room the less expensive it is in comparison to other methods. The real key with water cooling is the efficiency. You will literally spend 30-50% less on cooling electricity. For that type of setup I just described you are looking at $2500 for a chiller, reservoir, and pump. Another $1200 in Ice Boxes. $500 for a water cooled Co2 generator and controller. And another $200 in manifold lines. You won't have to buy an a/c units; not as many inline fans; and you can completely seal your room. NO in or out vents. It is more expensive but you will save a ton of money on electricity over using a/c units. When you get up aroun 10-12 lights then water cooling actually costs the same as installing a/c units.


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## Rrog (Apr 11, 2012)

Very helpful. Thank you. Makes great sense. I may look at that geothermal scenario that was described earlier by burying a deep coil 48" and lower in the ground to a radiator or such in the room. I like the idea and could easily do this. That combined with my original plan of exchanging the air with the rest of the basement.

I haven't looked into AC but the necessity to vent the hot air from an AC unit poses yet another cooling challenge.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 11, 2012)

Rrog said:


> Very helpful. Thank you. Makes great sense. I may look at that geothermal scenario that was described earlier by burying a deep coil 48" and lower in the ground to a radiator or such in the room. I like the idea and could easily do this. That combined with my original plan of exchanging the air with the rest of the basement.
> 
> I haven't looked into AC but the necessity to vent the hot air from an AC unit poses yet another cooling challenge.


You're gonna need about 500ft of coil buried in the ground if you want to cool that room with it. Plus you're gonna have to go lower than 4 feet. Think more like 8'.


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## Rrog (Apr 11, 2012)

Is that an actual estimate or are you just saying I'd need a shitload of coil = not worth the effort?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 11, 2012)

Rrog said:


> Is that an actual estimate or are you just saying I'd need a shitload of coil = not worth the effort?


I was just fucking around. It really depends on where you live. You are going to need a good amount of coil or a decent sized reservoir even if you live in a moderate climate. You need to replace the heat created by 3-4000w of light, ballasts, dehumidifiers, pumps, Co2 generators, and the ambient heat in your room. There are some great DIY chiller threads around here somewhere. If you go to my Water Cooled Grow Rooms thread there are some great DIY guys in there. I haven't seen anyone doing that kind of load though. Check around though. Would be cool to see.


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## Rrog (Apr 12, 2012)

If I'm doing this as a hobby for myself and am not interested in volume production, would 4 plants under two 1000w HPS really be wasteful? Sorry for the adolescent question, but I like the idea of having large plants that I can completely walk around.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 12, 2012)

Just depends on the size of your plants. If you really want to be efficient then you size your plants to your lighting footprint. Usually this means having a square plant footprint. Something like 4, 9, 16, etc... plants. A 1000w has a footprint of 5x5 so work around that. If your plants are 2.5' in diameter then that is 4 plants per 1000w.


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## Sencha (Apr 13, 2012)

Hey phill. I'm getting ready to frame a new flower room. Are you up for helping out? I'll be running 2x 1000 watts and 1 600 in it.

Looking to be 9'x9'...8' ceiling, in a basement corner. Veg room will be added later, for now, I have a 4x8 tent.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 13, 2012)

Sencha said:


> Hey phill. I'm getting ready to frame a new flower room. Are you up for helping out? I'll be running 2x 1000 watts and 1 600 in it.
> 
> Looking to be 9'x9'...8' ceiling, in a basement corner. Veg room will be added later, for now, I have a 4x8 tent.


I'll be the bigger man here because I enjoy helping people. But a few months ago when I (and 3 other contractors/builders) advised someone that they couldn't go 10' below grade with only wood framing (PWF) for a subterranean grow room you went apeshit. You called me names; trolled me in other threads; and just wanted to argue about a subject you had no experience with. I don't like getting into pissing contests on this forum. I'm here to learn and hopefully help a few others. So if you are cool and not here to try and start shit again then I am more then happy to help.


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## Hash Bandit (Apr 14, 2012)

Hey Phillip, just looking for some advise on my rooms. I have 2 main rooms with a smaller 5x5'x6'tall room for my mom/cuttings and earily veg plants. My 2 main rooms are 5x14'x6'tall each and each have 4 600watts aircooled lights with a 6" fan on them (run them dimmed for the first part). Each has a carbon filter with a 6" fan and uses a passive intake, I have a dehumidifier that I use for the last 3 weeks or so most of the time im running a humidifier to keep it a 60%, no Co2 yet but an considering it for the summer, along with an AC unit, or 2 i guess...? I have never ran this setup in the summer, and have just finshing setting it up and getting it dialed in, i'm starting to get concrned with heat as it start to warms up, im limited on cutting holes in the walls i have a 8" that everything exhausts through, and a 6" for the lights that i split between the 2 rooms. 

The room is in the basement so im assuming it stays relatively cool in there in the summer but no too sure, it gets warm here in the summer prob avg aroung 70-90deg. Right now with it being 65 in the basement the coldest I can keep my room is 75 running everything at full so... Not sure what direction to go with the AC or maybe using a chiller(drain to waste type) or .....? I dont know thats why im asking, and for Co2... propane burner or tanks... I guess i could build a little addition on my rooms that i could chill and Co2 enrich but it couldnt be very big maybe 2x10'x6 tall... I dont know, I probably should have asked for advise before built it but i was trying to hold the record for the longest lurker... thanks alot for your help





These are they rooms any advise would help thanks


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## phillipchristian (Apr 14, 2012)

Hash Bandit said:


> Hey Phillip, just looking for some advise on my rooms. I have 2 main rooms with a smaller 5x5'x6'tall room for my mom/cuttings and earily veg plants. My 2 main rooms are 5x14'x6'tall each and each have 4 600watts aircooled lights with a 6" fan on them (run them dimmed for the first part). Each has a carbon filter with a 6" fan and uses a passive intake, I have a dehumidifier that I use for the last 3 weeks or so most of the time im running a humidifier to keep it a 60%, no Co2 yet but an considering it for the summer, along with an AC unit, or 2 i guess...? I have never ran this setup in the summer, and have just finshing setting it up and getting it dialed in, i'm starting to get concrned with heat as it start to warms up, im limited on cutting holes in the walls i have a 8" that everything exhausts through, and a 6" for the lights that i split between the 2 rooms.
> 
> The room is in the basement so im assuming it stays relatively cool in there in the summer but no too sure, it gets warm here in the summer prob avg aroung 70-90deg. Right now with it being 65 in the basement the coldest I can keep my room is 75 running everything at full so... Not sure what direction to go with the AC or maybe using a chiller(drain to waste type) or .....? I dont know thats why im asking, and for Co2... propane burner or tanks... I guess i could build a little addition on my rooms that i could chill and Co2 enrich but it couldnt be very big maybe 2x10'x6 tall... I dont know, I probably should have asked for advise before built it but i was trying to hold the record for the longest lurker... thanks alot for your help
> 
> ...


Hey Hash, thanks for stopping by. I'm assuming that since you have 2 flower rooms you are running them on a FLIP? One on while the other is off? I would recommend portable a/c units with dual hoses. You could pull cool air from outside of the tents and exhaust it through the same ducting as the lights. Each room has it's own climate that needs to be controlled independently. Even if you had both rooms on the same light cycle it would be really hard to control the temps in both from 1 a/c unit.

As far as Co2 goes it is just a matter of preference. I use burners but with a good controller/monitor and regulator bottles are just as effective. It's really personal preference in my opinion.


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## Hash Bandit (Apr 14, 2012)

Hey thanks fot the quick reply. I'm not running flip setup, it seemd almost as cheap to just buy the 4 extra ballasts, plus i can run them dimmed at different times... Ya i was thinking i might have to get two seprate ACs, we do have central air, but its a old unit and im not even sure if it runs... Any recomdations on a AC (BTUs/brand), or are thoes chillers any good, the guy at the hydro store recomended them to me he said just hook one end to a tap and the other to a drain i think they were $1200CAD for the 12000 BTU model


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## phillipchristian (Apr 14, 2012)

Hash Bandit said:


> Hey thanks fot the quick reply. I'm not running flip setup, it seemd almost as cheap to just buy the 4 extra ballasts, plus i can run them dimmed at different times... Ya i was thinking i might have to get two seprate ACs, we do have central air, but its a old unit and im not even sure if it runs... Any recomdations on a AC (BTUs/brand), or are thoes chillers any good, the guy at the hydro store recomended them to me he said just hook one end to a tap and the other to a drain i think they were $1200CAD for the 12000 BTU model


What are you gonna do with a chiller? This is why I love those hydro store guys. They'll try and sell you anything. Don't get me wrong man...I love water cooled grow rooms. It's kinda my thing. But not every situation calls for it. If you bought a chiller to just cool your rooms then you would need a reservoir, pumps, manifold lines, fans, and heat exchangers. Trust me, cheaper to get a/c units. If you've got the money though then water cooling is more efficietn and you will see the difference on you electricity bill versus a/c units. You would make the money back within a year. A 12,000btu chiller (1 ton) probably wouldn't do it. He's probably trying to sell you and Active Aqua or EcoPlus unit. Those units have shitty components and dont have compressors designed for constant load like you find in hydro applications. They are really designed for a static load like an aquarium. In all honesty you'd probably need a 1.5-2hp unit. 

I've never used portable a/c's before so I am not the guy to be recommending brands. I do know that you want dual hose units and I would oversize them. You don't want your a/c running all the time to try and keep up. They burn out that way and are way less efficient. I would say 10,000-12,000btu units would definitely do the trick since you seem to be running pretty cool in your oom without them.

Best of luck man. Let me know if you need anything else.


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## Hash Bandit (Apr 14, 2012)

Very true with the hydro store guys selling you anything, i've put way too much trust in them from day one, thats why im here. I wont have to worry about an AC for a few more months yet so i'll have lots of time to figure it out...

Thanks for the help


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## Sencha (Apr 14, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> I'll be the bigger man here because I enjoy helping people. But a few months ago when I (and 3 other contractors/builders) advised someone that they couldn't go 10' below grade with only wood framing (PWF) for a subterranean grow room you went apeshit. You called me names; trolled me in other threads; and just wanted to argue about a subject you had no experience with. I don't like getting into pissing contests on this forum. I'm here to learn and hopefully help a few others. So if you are cool and not here to try and start shit again then I am more then happy to help.


I'm not here to start shit. I'm here for advise because you have much more experience with this then I do. I sent you a message and I hope we can move on.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 14, 2012)

Hey (sencha) how you doing? Just wanted to say ! Like this thread and its on the top 5 threads in this forum
That has the ability to help so many! And phillips a great member with great skills. So to the point! Please dont
Stirr up any shit here! Toke n talks the place for that stuff! Other than that you all have a great day


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## Sencha (Apr 14, 2012)

Ok then. The space I'm working with is 20x9. I currently have a 9x9 sectioned off, with panda film. That is my flower room. Outside the flower room is my 8x4 tent for veg.

I thought this panda film wall idea was good enough but it's not. So I'm going to start a framing project in the next two days.

I'll frame the 9x9 in first, I'll add the extra 11' wall later. I only have to frame two walls of the 9x9, the other two walls are pre existing. I won't be hanging anything on the new walls, so here is the first question.

Two options; (the basement is carpeted) remove the carpet so studs can be secured to the floor, or lay the studs on the carpet and not secure the walls to the floor? I will also want some kind of door (sliding?) to seperate the veg and flower room.

Thanks in advance.


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## kamie (Apr 14, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> I need to know:
> 
> the room is 13ft long, 10 ft wide, 9 ft high. the ceiling is actually higher. i have a center beam
> the window is on the long wall and its about 6.5 x 4 ft
> ...


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## phillipchristian (Apr 14, 2012)

Sencha said:


> Ok then. The space I'm working with is 20x9. I currently have a 9x9 sectioned off, with panda film. That is my flower room. Outside the flower room is my 8x4 tent for veg.
> 
> I thought this panda film wall idea was good enough but it's not. So I'm going to start a framing project in the next two days.
> 
> ...


Hey man, glad we could get all of that behind us. Onward and upward!! Let's get growing!!

The it works is, the more information you can give me the better. Like soil or hydro; where the doors and windows are; do you have Co2; what equipment is in the room; etc...

More important than any other support I really think you need to secure the footings to the floor. Probably would be a good idea to seal it with silicone or caulk as well. If you plan on having this room for a while it would be a good idea to remove the carpet. Carpets are breeding grounds for mold and mildew; especially in a grow room environment. Once you take the carpet up you can lay down your own floor from plywood or cheap linoleum. I would go with somtheing that is easy to clean and moisture proof. Basements usually are built with moisture barriers anyway but it's always a good idea to add a little extra just in case.

For your door; anything that can seal the air and light in the room is fine. I would think a standard door might be better for security reasons. Give you the ability to lock your room. If you do put a standard door in though; make sure it opens outward to save you room inside your grow.

Hope that helps.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 14, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey (sencha) how you doing? Just wanted to say ! Like this thread and its on the top 5 threads in this forum
> That has the ability to help so many! And phillips a great member with great skills. So to the point! Please dont
> Stirr up any shit here! Toke n talks the place for that stuff! Other than that you all have a great day


Haha, thanks Hellraizer. Me and Sencha squashed it in PM's. All good now. On to bigger things.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 14, 2012)

kamie said:


> the room is 13ft long, 10 ft wide, 9 ft high. the ceiling is actually higher. i have a center beam
> the window is on the long wall and its about 6.5 x 4 ft
> i plan on using 6 lights
> SOG
> ...


Working on it now Kamie. I'll have something for you later or tomorrow.


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## Sencha (Apr 14, 2012)

I honestly don't know how long I'll grow here and the carpet is in pretty good shape. If I don't have to seccure it to the floor I won't.

I understand the risks with mold, pollen, dust etc. I'll have enough panda film left over to cover the floor 3 times.

I own and live in this house, at least the bank owns it. However, I'm considering a move in the future and this house would become a rental. I need the option to disassemble because it's prime living space.

As far as grow style? I'm only a 3 year grower so I'm just now getting through all the styles. I've tried almost everything. I have not grown SOG or vertical yet. I will probably always grow some form of DWC or Aero in half the room and Coco or soil in the other half. 

Current equipment list to follow....


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## phillipchristian (Apr 14, 2012)

Sencha said:


> I honestly don't know how long I'll grow here and the carpet is in pretty good shape. If I don't have to seccure it to the floor I won't.
> 
> I understand the risks with mold, pollen, dust etc. I'll have enough panda film left over to cover the floor 3 times.
> 
> ...


I would try and secure it to the floor. I understand that you don't want to devalue your home by ripping up carpet in a corner of your room. If you can, then at least build a floating floor. If you lay down panda film over that carpet for a few years it's gonna be discolored anyway. If it's in your budget you frame out a floor with 2x2's. Lay it down and fasten it to your exterior walls. Then you could just lay plywood across the top of it and panda or linoleum on top of that. Would help keep your room cool too because you would have airflow underneath.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 14, 2012)

Carpet is easy to pull up and roll it up and store it! Then when your done just lay it back down kick stretch it and tac it.
Cheaper to store than distroy!


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 14, 2012)

Carpet is easy to pull up and roll it up and store it! Then when your done just lay it back down kick stretch it and tac it.
Cheaper to store than distroy!


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## Sencha (Apr 14, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> I would try and secure it to the floor. I understand that you don't want to devalue your home by ripping up carpet in a corner of your room. If you can, then at least build a floating floor. If you lay down panda film over that carpet for a few years it's gonna be discolored anyway. If it's in your budget you frame out a floor with 2x2's. Lay it down and fasten it to your exterior walls. Then you could just lay plywood across the top of it and panda or linoleum on top of that. Would help keep your room cool too because you would have airflow underneath.


I like the raised idea. I'll have to consider it. 4- 4.5' x 4.5' squares that latch in the center would be portable enough as well. Cost is the only issue I guess.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 14, 2012)

Sencha said:


> I like the raised idea. I'll have to consider it. 4- 4.5' x 4.5' squares that latch in the center would be portable enough as well. Cost is the only issue I guess.


You wouldn't lose too much vertical space if you did the framing of the floor in 2x2's and used 1/2" plywood.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 14, 2012)

kamie said:


> phillipchristian said:
> 
> 
> > I need to know:
> ...


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## kamie (Apr 15, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> kamie said:
> 
> 
> > Just some quick questions Kamie.
> ...


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## phillipchristian (Apr 15, 2012)

kamie said:


> i'll be using 6 1k ballasts 3 are lumateks and 3 are quantums from my last grow.
> i thought with good ventilation i'd get by, but youre right im going to need a/c. any recommendations? im in ca bay area and right now its been very cold still..
> i wasn't planning on adding anything, but how does the 20% worm casting and dolmite lime work? can i get that at the local hydro store?
> i was thinking in 5 gal pots no taller than 2ft. what do you think about 3 gallon pots? would that be better?
> ...


Hey Kamie,

That is an awful lot of light for that room and for 2' plants. Couple things I have noticed: First, even though the room is 13x10 I am assuming you won't have the ENTIRE space covered with plants? I mean, you are going to need room for other equipment and to walk around. I would say 4 lights max is all you will need. You could probably run those lights dimmed to 600w (use 600w bulbs if you do this) and save a lot on heating and electricity. Second; if you are only growing 2' plants you don't need all that penetration of a 1000w light. You are just adding heat and electrical draw that you don't need. Are you growing SOG on trays? If so, how big are your trays and how many do you have?

If you end up going with 6,000w in there then I would look into a minisplit. 18,000-24,000btu. That is a ton of heat you will be producing. If you don't want to do the minisplit then I think you are going to need 2 12,000btu portable a/c units. You can try it with 1 but I'm pretty sure you are going to need another. I really can't recommend any particular brand cause I have never used them before. I do know you want a dual hose unit as they are more efficient. You will need a place to draw air from and to exhaust it. That means more vents.

You can get both worm castings and lime online. Most hydro stores carry worm castings but a lot of them do not carry lime. I would say 3-4 15lb. bags of worm castings and a 5lb bag of dolmite lime would be plenty to hold you over for a while. Worm Castings provide great beneficial bacteria additives to the soil which Sunshine lacks a little on. They also make it easier for you plant to uptake Nitrogem and Potassium. I've heard the new Sunshin #4 Pro has added beneficials and bacteria but I 'm not sure cause I haven't really looked into it. Dolmite lime is stricly for pH stability in your soil as Sunshine is a soiless mix and tends to fluctuate pH a lot. You can get the lime on Amazon for $20 (http://www.amazon.com/Dolomitic-Lime-6-5-lb-bag/dp/B001L9QFOY/ref=sr_1_sc_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1334476141&sr=8-6-spell) and the worm castings as well (http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Organic-Worm-Castings-15/dp/B00062KQ42/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1334476256&sr=1-1). Remember, 20-25% worm casting mixed in with your soil and 1 tablespoon of dolmite lime per gallon of soil and casting mix. Helps to just get a wheel barrow or tub. Grab a 3 gallon pot and for every 4 scoops of Sunshine you add a scoop of worm castings. That will be 15 gallons of soil mix. Then just add 15 tablespoons (1 cup) of lime.

If you aren't going any taller than 2-3 feet then 3 gallon pots will be plenty and will allow you to fit more plants under your lights. 5 gallon pots are for bigger plants; 4-5'.

Totally confused about your room layout. Anyway to just sketch it out on paper real quick so I can see what you mean? Just give me the layout and the dimensions for the walls, doors, windows, etc... Take a picture of your drawing and post that.


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## Sencha (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm going to post this equipment list, maybe you can help me decide on a 1k light/hood and a new meter. I currently have...

1-LumenAire 8" Reflector w/600 watt Quantum/Hortilux
1-EasyCool 6" Reflector w/600 watt HTG/HTG
(adding a 1k light this week)
1- CAP Valuline 8" fan 745 cfm with an 8" Phresh filter
1-HTG 6" fan 450 cfm for cooling the hoods.
1-CAP intermitent timer for my Aero unit
I have a custom built Aero cloner and an Aero/NFT (6 unit site) for flower.
Plenty of air pumps
Shitty meters pH and PPM
4-4' T-8s and a 150 watt HPS for veg
2-10'x20' sheets of Panda
4'x8' Ebay Tent
1-6" Inline fan
1-4" Centrifugal fan ~180 cfm

As far as the floor goes, I don't think I have the time or skill for it. These panda film walls need to go, SOON. May be removing carpet today


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## phillipchristian (Apr 15, 2012)

Sencha said:


> I'm going to post this equipment list, maybe you can help me decide on a 1k light/hood and a new meter. I currently have...
> 
> 1-LumenAire 8" Reflector w/600 watt Quantum/Hortilux
> 1-EasyCool 6" Reflector w/600 watt HTG/HTG
> ...


If you can build the walls then building the floor is just as easy. Frame out the exterior size of your rooms. Then just lay it on the floor and add plywood. I would make the spacing 2' on the studs since it's a floor. For your walls just put up plywood as well. Then get duct insulation wrap. It's cheap, insulating, and very reflective. They sell it an Home Depot or Lowes.

For a pH/ppm meter I would go with a Hanna. I like them a lot. I've had one for 2 years with no problems. Buy the 2 bottles of calibration solution. 4.01 and 7.0. Also, wash it off before you store it with the cleanest water you have.


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## Sencha (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm a stoner. I'd spend too much time figuring out how to make the floor, 4 pieces and interlocking. HR made a good point. If I take out the whole 20x9 section, I can put it back as needed. I'll save some much needed time.

Can you recommend a good, concrete, drill bit? ...and size.

Lets talk about a bit of sound proofing before we talk plywood. I have some extra sheets of drywall for the outside. Some new, fireproof, drywall might be doable instead. 4xsheets whould do it. FP 4x8s are ~$7

Why do you recommend plywood on the inside? I will have plenty of panda film left over. I was thinking, inside out: panda film/cheap insulation(mostly for sound) foamboard or what? not sure/drywall. Plywood is also too expensive.

I need extra thought for sound deadening because the Valuline is pretty loud, it shakes the room upstairs as well. I know I need a speed controller but that is NOT in budget atm.

Thanks for your help. I really needed someone elses input on this. I wasted alot of energy on the panda film walls. I want to do it right this time.

Next up...atmosphere, to seal or not to seal


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## Rrog (Apr 15, 2012)

5/8" thick drywall is the goal. Use the heavy stuff on the inside of the walls, where the noise is being produced. If the walls were 2x4, and spaced every 24" rather than 16", your sound isolation will improve a lot. Consider using a first layer of OSB, then drywall. That way you can drive a screw and hang a light anywhere. Use standard R13 fiberglass in the wall. Paper faced so you can staple to studs.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 15, 2012)

Sencha said:


> I'm a stoner. I'd spend too much time figuring out how to make the floor, 4 pieces and interlocking. HR made a good point. If I take out the whole 20x9 section, I can put it back as needed. I'll save some much needed time.
> 
> Can you recommend a good, concrete, drill bit? ...and size.
> 
> ...


Drillbit? They are all the same for what you are trying to do. Just get one from the hardware store. Dewalt, Bosch, Milwaukee, whatever.

I recommended plywood cause it is cheap and durable. I don't know what materials you have to work with. Any sturdy board material will work. It's up to you. Use whatever you want; I'm just giving suggestions. Use drywall, plywood, foam board, particle board, whatever.


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## Sencha (Apr 15, 2012)

I asked about the bit because everytime I buy a concrete bit, it only lasts about 20 holes. The foam board was more a question of insulation/sound proofing. I've updated my equipment list. I also have 6 sheets of drywall and 2 sheets of green board.

I don't want to drywall both sides and the plywood is twice the cost. Panda film for the inside wall or bad idea? Not enough sound proofing?

@Rrog, thanks for the input. I like the idea of 24" stud space. That insulation might be out of budget though. Is there a cheaper option?


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## Rrog (Apr 15, 2012)

Foam won't soundproof. It has no mass.

Some thicknesses of OSB are pretty darned cheap, though it weighs less than drywall. 

Insulation helps, but people believe it does more than it really does. It's an intuitive conclusion. If cash was fixed, I would pay for extra drywall and skip the insulation


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## Sencha (Apr 15, 2012)

Opting for a happy medium between easy of tear down and sound proofing.....I'll use the drywall that I have on the outside. I'll buy the R-13 insulation, and I'll panda film over it on the inside. If I don't get the sound proof I need, I can always add drywall to the inside later, and it will be easy to do.

If I stumble on some extra cash, I'll OSB the inside. I know I'll be getting some for the ceiling regardless.


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## Rrog (Apr 15, 2012)

There is no question whatsoever that not installing the drywall on the inside will result in a big waste. Personally, I would pass on the insulation, use the heavy drywall inside and out, seal the drywall with caulk, and paint the inside surface with gloss white paint.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 15, 2012)

Rrog said:


> There is no question whatsoever that not installing the drywall on the inside will result in a big waste. Personally, I would pass on the insulation, use the heavy drywall inside and out, seal the drywall with caulk, and paint the inside surface with gloss white paint.


Agreed! I don't know your budget Sencha. That's why I suggested plywood. 1/2" CDX is pretty cheap man.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 15, 2012)

I use the plywood and roll it with kills then gloss white! All corners are sealed with calking. Then white poly, if humidity
Is kept well this should last many years


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## Rrog (Apr 15, 2012)

Nice HR30!


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## Sencha (Apr 15, 2012)

Nixing the insulation frees enough money for plywood. I'll do, drywall on the outside and plywood on the inside as suggested. Lowe's dosn't carry CDX, it says coming soon. I want fire resistant.

Lights come on in 20min. I dread moving all this stuff again.

Is there any reason you might want a seperate thread for this build? It's going to have alot of details. Especially if I decide not to seal it. I'll be putting alot of extra work into environment.


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## Rrog (Apr 15, 2012)

Cheapest fire resistance is from 5/8" Type X drywall. It's found everywhere. You might switch the drywall and plywood, or install a thin layer of OSB, like 7/16", for a nail base, then add a sheet of fire rated 5/8" drywall. This gives you the mass you want, the nail base you want, and the fire resistance also.

Drywall is like $8 a sheet, and OSB is I don't know. Used to be less than drywall. Fire-treated plywood is pricey


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## Sencha (Apr 15, 2012)

Rrog said:


> Cheapest fire resistance is from 5/8" Type X drywall. It's found everywhere. You might switch the drywall and plywood, or install a thin layer of OSB, like 7/16", for a nail base, then add a sheet of fire rated 5/8" drywall. This gives you the mass you want, the nail base you want, and the fire resistance also.
> 
> Drywall is like $8 a sheet, and OSB is I don't know. Used to be less than drywall. Fire-treated plywood is pricey


Sounds good. I'll be doing that on the ceiling for sure. I have a bit of work to do before I get to that.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 15, 2012)

Sencha said:


> Nixing the insulation frees enough money for plywood. I'll do, drywall on the outside and plywood on the inside as suggested. Lowe's dosn't carry CDX, it says coming soon. I want fire resistant.
> 
> Lights come on in 20min. I dread moving all this stuff again.
> 
> ...


Keep on posting here man. This is exactly why I created the thread. To get a collective of design and construction knowledge and ideas in one place. Lot's of guys here have better ideas than me.


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## greencrack99 (Apr 16, 2012)

One sec to re post


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## phillipchristian (Apr 16, 2012)

Hey Crack, anyway you can repost that floorplan? I can't see anything cause it's too small.


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## greencrack99 (Apr 16, 2012)

I will try to re format it


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## greencrack99 (Apr 16, 2012)

hope this turns out better


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## phillipchristian (Apr 16, 2012)

Hey crack. Much better couple quick questions. First off the plant looks great. Nicejob. I'm just wondering since I have never used cooltubes before; why are you pushin the air through them? Also, what are the dimensions of the space? Are you gonna put a carbon filter in the flower room?


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## greencrack99 (Apr 16, 2012)

The dimensions can be whatever it needs to be to allow for a setup like this, i will leave size up to you to figure out.
There will be x2 6in stealth air scrubbers in the main flower room and a 4in stealth air in the veg/cloning room.
The cool tubes are just a vented shield moving air to remove heat, the room i want to be sealed the venting on the
Lights are on a closed loop.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 16, 2012)

greencrack99 said:


> The dimensions can be whatever it needs to be to allow for a setup like this, i will leave size up to you to figure out.
> There will be x2 6in stealth air scrubbers in the main flower room and a 4in stealth air in the veg/cloning room.
> The cool tubes are just a vented shield moving air to remove heat, the room i want to be sealed the venting on the
> Lights are on a closed loop.


Gotcha. Still confused about the lights though. If they are on a closed loop then where are you drawing air from and where are you exhausting it? Are you drawing from the veg room and exhausting outside?


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## 209 Cali closet grower (Apr 16, 2012)

Damn you guys doing big things up in here


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## greencrack99 (Apr 16, 2012)

It going to pull from the attic on the south side and exit the north side to the attic. South an north side walls will be
8 in wall allowing for 6in ducting to be plumbed in.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 16, 2012)

Ok crack, this is what I have for you. I have a couple suggestions though. First off, I'm not sure if 4 lights is going to cover 10 plants in a row. Assuming you are growing average sized plants I would say you are looking at least 2sq.ft. per plant. That mean you need to cover a length of 20ft. and a width of 4ft. The 4ft. is no problem but 20ft with 4 600w lights might be pushing it. If you are buying new ballasts for this op then I would recommend those Lumatek dual ballasts. You carbon filter I have hanging from the ceiling. I would also put your chiller and it's reservoir in the grow room. They work more efficient that way as it tends to have the most controlled climate. It will also save you from long tubing runs where you lose temperature and efficiency. I would place them under the air handler. You could also place the air handler on the wall above the door which would allow you to keep the chiller and reservoir in your veg room.


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## greencrack99 (Apr 16, 2012)

Looks good phillip, so you think adding another 600 to each side would be better? Or switch to 1000s?
Also where in the room do you think the co2 gen should'be located?
And do you think the cooling system is enough?
This layout will be a basement completly underground no windows.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 16, 2012)

greencrack99 said:


> Looks good phillip, so you think adding another 600 to each side would be better? Or switch to 1000s?
> Also where in the room do you think the co2 gen should'be located?
> And do you think the cooling system is enough?
> This layout will be a basement completly underground no windows.


I would go with 600's man. Add one to each side. If you do 1000's then you'll be using 4,000w per side as opposed to 3,000w (5x600w) if you just added a 600w. Plus you won't need the width that a 1000w will have so it's a lot less efficient. Not to mention the additional electric and cooling issues.

I'd hang the Co2 generator in the middle of the room. Try and get the best disbursement possible. I've seen that larger rooms tend to have and airflow pattern that develops and sometimes you can get dead zones. Once you get it setup try moving your sensor around the room and see if you have any defficient areas on the plants. If so then raise the level on your controller or try and position the sensor in the defficient area.

It's hard to say if the cooling system will be enough. Every room is different and depends on where you live, the insulation in the room, the airflow, etc.. I think running the Cooltubes like that is gonna help alot. Plus yoy'll have really good airflow with the dehumidifier and wall fans. I think if you run into issues is going to be your chiller not being able to handle the load when lights are on.


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## kamie (Apr 16, 2012)

hey phillip, i have a friend who is going to help me set up my breaker box and timers and outlets. He told me he will be setting up 220v outlets and 110v outlets. what i don't get is shouldnt it be 240v and 120v? he showed me the outlets where i would be plugging the ballasts into for the 220v and the outlet is for a 120v plug not a 240 plug... i should find someone else huh? i been to his place and it looks great but the whole 220 and 110 and outlets got me confused about him helping me.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 16, 2012)

your gear will run 220v and 110v but the wiring and breakers will be 240v and 120v


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## DankShasta (Apr 16, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Well, this really sucks. Lost all of that great info that was posted on this thread and have to start it over again. Complete waste. Anyway, to all of those who had questions or floorplans up on here just let me know and I will repost them. Be specific as to which was yours as I have them all saved. Here you go Phishtank. This is the one we hae been working on.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2070632



Why doesn't everything exhaust through the air scrubber?


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## kamie (Apr 16, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> your gear will run 220v and 110v but the wiring and breakers will be 240v and 120v


Hey HR is that good or bad? so when i plug my ballast into that 220v outlet using a the 120v cord, am i technically pulling 220v or am i pulling 120v? I'm just trying to figure out how many amps I actually using because i want to run 240v to use half the amps of 120v, but he has the outlet labeled as 220v and i plug a 120v plug into it.. confusing isnt it? thanks HR!


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 16, 2012)

its all about rating kamie I know its hard to understand. your ballast will run at 220v the wireing needs to be a 2 phase wire to a 240v breaker.

and your standard wall socket IE duplex receps are 110v and ran to a 120v breaker, do not mix these up!

also you need to balance your 120v sockets. A 240v breaker is already balanced due to it having duel poles,
and 120v breakers are single pole. reason to balance is if you pull a 1000watts draw off your A side pole and
nothing off the B side the electric company charges you for the b side even though theres nothing there. so
when your buddy sets it up have him split you 120v gear between the A and B side to eliminate this charge.


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## kamie (Apr 16, 2012)

Hey HR, I'm still confused lol. what he showed me so was was a piece of wood that has a timer. 6 outlets, 4 which he said was 220v and 2 is 110v which he said that is always on and would not shut off. So if i was to use 4 1k ballasts, am i running at 8.9 amps x 4? or am i really running half of those amps?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 16, 2012)

ballasts running 120 will be alot more amps than ones running 240v. sounds like he know what hes doing kamie, its hard for me to know if its right without seeing it!
running 240v theres good savings there! and balancing your 120v power can save a ton to. there is the posability hes using a 120v outlet with x plugs if this is the
case then hes running 240v ballasts through a 120v outlet lol i know its confusing


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## phillipchristian (Apr 16, 2012)

Hey Kamie, sorry but was out on the boat today.

For the most part Hellraizer is spot on man. It does sound like your buddy knows what he is doing. Although, if you have 240v outlets then you are probably running your ballasts on 240v. A 1000w ballasts uses roughly 9.5amps at 120v and 4.75amps at 240v. 120/240v is just the force at which your electricity is delivered. If you have twice as much force (240v) then you need half the draw (amps). This doesn't affect your electrical bill though because you are still using the same amount of watts. Electrical companies bill for kilowatt hours. They do not bill based on your amps. The reason for using the 240v lines is that it allows you to use less draw off your main panel. If you have a 100amp service for example and you put everything on 120v service in your house then you wouldn't have enough room on your main panel. Large appliances have significant draws (a/c, electric stove, hot water heaters, etc...) so they are put on 240v service.

As far as your setup goes; do not worry about your equipment being 110v and the outlets being 120v. It's the exact same thing; same outlet; etc... It's totally normal.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 16, 2012)

DankShasta said:


> Why doesn't everything exhaust through the air scrubber?


Not sure what you are referring to?


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## Sencha (Apr 16, 2012)

Well, I removed my carpet, cleaned the floor and framed a wall today. I ran short on time so I had to put panda film back up. 25' of it!! I'm glad I had help.

My poor plants are getting shit for fresh air for a few days, that's for sure. Room construction + a running bloom room + a running veg room = 1 Big Headache (and twice the work)

I've also decided not to seal the room. I just won't have the gear to do it right. Maybe next time.....and next time I won't have plants in the way!!!!!


- If I frame a door opening for a 24" door, I actually make the opening 29" right?


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## kamie (Apr 16, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Hey Kamie, sorry but was out on the boat today.
> 
> For the most part Hellraizer is spot on man. It does sound like your buddy knows what he is doing. Although, if you have 240v outlets then you are probably running your ballasts on 240v. A 1000w ballasts uses roughly 9.5amps at 120v and 4.75amps at 240v. 120/240v is just the force at which your electricity is delivered. If you have twice as much force (240v) then you need half the draw (amps). This doesn't affect your electrical bill though because you are still using the same amount of watts. Electrical companies bill for kilowatt hours. They do not bill based on your amps. The reason for using the 240v lines is that it allows you to use less draw off your main panel. If you have a 100amp service for example and you put everything on 120v service in your house then you wouldn't have enough room on your main panel. Large appliances have significant draws (a/c, electric stove, hot water heaters, etc...) so they are put on 240v service.
> 
> As far as your setup goes; do not worry about your equipment being 110v and the outlets being 120v. It's the exact same thing; same outlet; etc... It's totally normal.


hey phillip, what im confused is that he tells me the outlet is 220v, but the cord i use to plug into that outlet is the 120v. so am i really running at 220v? or am i running at 120v? i'm just confused cuz im using a 120v cord, but hes telling me that outlet is actually 220v.. lol i'm just trying to figure out how many amps im really running. thanks for be patients with me on all these questions guy =]


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## phillipchristian (Apr 16, 2012)

Sencha said:


> - If I frame a door opening for a 24" door, I actually make the opening 29" right?




Depends on the size of your door jamb. 29" seems a little big. Most jambs are 1 - 1.5" so your "opening would be 26-27".


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## phillipchristian (Apr 16, 2012)

kamie said:


> hey phillip, what im confused is that he tells me the outlet is 220v, but the cord i use to plug into that outlet is the 120v. so am i really running at 220v? or am i running at 120v? i'm just confused cuz im using a 120v cord, but hes telling me that outlet is actually 220v.. lol i'm just trying to figure out how many amps im really running. thanks for be patients with me on all these questions guy =]


Sounds like he's basically making a sub panel or light controller box on the wall for you. Pictures would really help. Either way; if your ballast or equipment cord and plug are 120v then that is what you are using. Every ballast is different but they all state on the ballast or in the manual how many amps they pull at 120v. for a 1000w it's usually between 9-10amps.


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## kamie (Apr 17, 2012)

hey phillip i noticed the 750w feature on the ballast and have seen only talks about either 1000w and 600w. Is 750w not any good? I am planning on using 600w since i won't be growing plants taller than 4ft. also what is the footprint of a 600w? i remember you saying 1000w is 5x5 so would that mean a 600w would be a 4x4?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 17, 2012)

kamie said:


> hey phillip i noticed the 750w feature on the ballast and have seen only talks about either 1000w and 600w. Is 750w not any good? I am planning on using 600w since i won't be growing plants taller than 4ft. also what is the footprint of a 600w? i remember you saying 1000w is 5x5 so would that mean a 600w would be a 4x4?


Hey bud, there are a few manufacturers that make 750w bulbs. Not too many though. Some guys run their bulbs at dimmed settings; especially early in flower when their plants are smaller. I don't recommend doing this at all. I've talked to the guys at Lumatek and Hortilux and they all say the same thing...running a ballast at a dimmed setting is fine but running a bulb at a dimmed setting actually changes the spectrum of the bulb. You are better off running a 600w bulb on a dimmed ballast. Don't run a 1000w bulb dimmed to 600w. If you are going to run the 1000w dimmed then there is nothing wrong with running it at 750w. Just more penetration and electrical draw.

600w lights all vary but for the most part 4x4 is a pretty good rule of thumb when your light is 12" from the canopy inside of a standard air cooled hood. Farther away and you lose footcandles but gain width.


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## kamie (Apr 17, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Hey bud, there are a few manufacturers that make 750w bulbs. Not too many though. Some guys run their bulbs at dimmed settings; especially early in flower when their plants are smaller. I don't recommend doing this at all. I've talked to the guys at Lumatek and Hortilux and they all say the same thing...running a ballast at a dimmed setting is fine but running a bulb at a dimmed setting actually changes the spectrum of the bulb. You are better off running a 600w bulb on a dimmed ballast. Don't run a 1000w bulb dimmed to 600w. If you are going to run the 1000w dimmed then there is nothing wrong with running it at 750w. Just more penetration and electrical draw.
> 
> 600w lights all vary but for the most part 4x4 is a pretty good rule of thumb when your light is 12" from the canopy inside of a standard air cooled hood. Farther away and you lose footcandles but gain width.


thanks phillip, i always thought that running 1k's means bigger yields so i always assumed 1k's were the best. thanks for the clear up. *Like button*


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## phillipchristian (Apr 17, 2012)

kamie said:


> thanks phillip, i always thought that running 1k's means bigger yields so i always assumed 1k's were the best. thanks for the clear up. *Like button*


You can get the same yield per size with a 400w that you can get with a 1000w. It just depends on the size of your plants and the area you are growing in. Most guys are growing plants 4-5' by the time they are harvested. In this situation a 1000w will give you more footcandles and penetration to the lower canopy. It really just depends on the size of your plant. If you are growing 4' plants and you lollipop and trim the leaves a little than a 600w light is just fine actually.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 17, 2012)

I have alway got my best results with 600s a nice trimmed up plant and lollypoped and about 2 1/2 3 ft. Tall


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## kindlyginger (Apr 17, 2012)

Where are you guys finding the dual 600w ballasts for $275? Can this ballast be run with one reflector or does it always have to have 2 on?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 17, 2012)

kindlyginger said:


> Where are you guys finding the dual 600w ballasts for $275? Can this ballast be run with one reflector or does it always have to have 2 on?


BCHydro.com had them for that price. Not sure if they still do though. Couple sites are around there as well. It's 2 ballasts in 1, how are you not running a second reflector? You don't have to run them both but what's the point of getting it then?


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## kindlyginger (Apr 17, 2012)

Thanks. Well, I am going to shoot for a perpetual grow rotating 2 plants. So the first time I put plants in there will only be 2, than about a month later 2 more.
It's nice to have the flexibility. I see the dual draws 5.5 amps. I thought I saw the single drew 2.7 amps. Two singles would be less than a dual. I must be mistaken.


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## kindlyginger (Apr 17, 2012)

BCHydro the electric company?


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## kindlyginger (Apr 17, 2012)

Ok, I found it at bghydro.com for $275 plus shipping.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 17, 2012)

K phillip im taking the h&m heat exchange back, cant get past the pump dead heading!
So what one do you think i should get?


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## + WitchDoctor + (Apr 17, 2012)

Hi, I'm trying to change things around a little to make them more convenient for me in my rooms. I normally keep my cuttings outside of my veg room in a small humidity dome on a table with a heating pad under it. (typical probably) I want to move them into my veg room. It's a 54"x54" room with 1000w MH. And maybe have a small 12"x48" shelf going across on one side up close to the reflector with a 4 ft T5 above it. I found a 48"x10" white flood tray which would be a great size for me, but the plastic humidity dome is about $100 bucks or something and seems pointless. 

So my question is since the humidity can be over 50% in my veg room anyways, could I just not use the lid and keep the humidity over 50%? And does this sound like a good plan at all? Thanks in advance.


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## Sencha (Apr 17, 2012)

I can see it taking longer with a low humidity but if you're cloning in rockwool or using a flood table to clone, I see no problem. 

My veg room is about 45% and I don't use domes. My clones root ~12 days.


-Hey phil, I have existing duct work going to my room (heat and CA). Would you move it to the bloom or veg room?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 17, 2012)

kindlyginger said:


> Ok, I found it at bghydro.com for $275 plus shipping.


Sorry about that buddy. I meant BGHydro. Was reading an article earlier about a grower and BC Hydro. Made me think of that I guess. Just know that those dual ballasts HAVE to be wired 240v. You can't use 120v plugs with them.

They use the same as a single unit. A single one uses 2.73 so they round down. A double uses 5.46 so they round up. All the same though. Even if it wasn't you'd be talking about such a small difference that the price savings would more than justify it.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 17, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> K phillip im taking the h&m heat exchange back, cant get past the pump dead heading!
> So what one do you think i should get?


Hey Hellraizer, I'd go with the Chillking Air Handler. I absolutely love them and they are so simple to setup. They will also continue to dehumidify even if the cooling has shutoff which is a drawback to most a/c units and other heat exchangers. PM me and I can get you a price from my boy if you are interested. Then you can take it from there.

Still think that chiller size is gonna be an issue. If anything you are gonna need to add another 1hp chiller to the reservoir. I think those EcoPlus units are stackable (you can sit one on the other).


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## phillipchristian (Apr 17, 2012)

+ WitchDoctor + said:


> Hi, I'm trying to change things around a little to make them more convenient for me in my rooms. I normally keep my cuttings outside of my veg room in a small humidity dome on a table with a heating pad under it. (typical probably) I want to move them into my veg room. It's a 54"x54" room with 1000w MH. And maybe have a small 12"x48" shelf going across on one side up close to the reflector with a 4 ft T5 above it. I found a 48"x10" white flood tray which would be a great size for me, but the plastic humidity dome is about $100 bucks or something and seems pointless.
> 
> So my question is since the humidity can be over 50% in my veg room anyways, could I just not use the lid and keep the humidity over 50%? And does this sound like a good plan at all? Thanks in advance.


Hey Witchdoctor. There are 2 trains of thought on cloning. Most guys use humidity domes to increase RH to 90-100% as they feel it increases the intake of water by the plants (myself included). Other guys actually never use a dome during cloning and feel that hardening off their clones is better right from the beginning. I've never tried it but they seem to do just fine with it. I know a Mondi Tray and 7" Dome costs like $10 together. Why not just have 2 10"x20" trays and dome? Get an extra heat mat as well. All of that will cost a lot less than another large tray and dome.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 17, 2012)

Sencha said:


> I can see it taking longer with a low humidity but if you're cloning in rockwool or using a flood table to clone, I see no problem.
> 
> My veg room is about 45% and I don't use domes. My clones root ~12 days.
> 
> ...


Hey Sencha, I wouldn't move it to either room. Keep it in the common area. You don't want to be blowing heat into one of your rooms while the a/c is working in there or vice versa. Since the thermostat for that ducting is in your house then it's not efficient to put the ducting in your room.


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## Sencha (Apr 17, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Hey Sencha, I wouldn't move it to either room. Keep it in the common area. You don't want to be blowing heat into one of your rooms while the a/c is working in there or vice versa. Since the thermostat for that ducting is in your house then it's not efficient to put the ducting in your room.


Thanks for that. It's already in the grow area where I'm building. Just wondered if it had ANY value. Minimizing labor today so, I'll cut some off and vent to the common room at a later date. I'll leave it in the veg room for now.


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## Sencha (Apr 17, 2012)

Two more walls done. Bloom room might get bigger and swallow the HVAC duct after all. This is taking a little longer then planned, due to smoking BUKU. I also decieded to go modular with my walls. With my studs 24" apart, I was able to build 6' sections. I built the wall on the floor and attached one side of the drywall before setting it in place. This really is a two man job, as is checking the squarness of each section while someone else drills holes. I've spent a little extra on materials to do it this way, but it's been a killer lesson in modular wall building. I'm using 2 x 3" studs and 1/2 dry wall. The next time I do this I'll use thicker drywall. Although, my noise level has already been cut in half.

A couple nice "C" clamps would have saved me a brief headache and I'm still using panda to cover a spot. I'll remedy those issues tomorrow.

A whole, modular, grow could be framed by one person if he built 4' walls instead of my 6 footers. Being secured to the concrete floor, making sure your walls are square, and having C clamps, are key for this project.

Cheers


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## phillipchristian (Apr 17, 2012)

Sencha said:


> Two more walls done. Bloom room might get bigger and swallow the HVAC duct after all. This is taking a little longer then planned, due to smoking BUKU. I also decieded to go modular with my walls. With my studs 24" apart, I was able to build 6' sections. I built the wall on the floor and attached one side of the drywall before setting it in place. This really is a two man job, as is checking the squarness of each section while someone else drills holes. I've spent a little extra on materials to do it this way, but it's been a killer lesson in modular wall building. I'm using 2 x 3" studs and 1/2 dry wall. The next time I do this I'll use thicker drywall. Although, my noise level has already been cut in half.
> 
> A couple nice "C" clamps would have saved me a brief headache and I'm still using panda to cover a spot. I'll remedy those issues tomorrow.
> 
> ...



Sounds like is coming along nicely man. It would be a 1 man job if you had my toolshed & workshop!


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## Sencha (Apr 18, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Sounds like is coming along nicely man. It would be a 1 man job if you had my toolshed & workshop!


....and it would take me 3 times longer. I'd end up building a modular floor and a removable ceiling. I'd spend a month just wondering about the endless possiblities, another month trying to build a rotating fireplace like in Scooby Doo, and that's IF I quit smoking to do it. Double that time if I was medicating, LMAO.

Someday phil, someday.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 18, 2012)

Haha buddy! Someday. The guys at the hardware store come to my house to see what the new tools are. I have shit they haven't even seen yet. Granted it is Costa Rica. Feel like DeWalt needs to pay me a sponsership fee.


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## vertigo me (Apr 18, 2012)

room


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## kamie (Apr 19, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> I have the same hoods with 1000w bulbs. I heep mine 6' apart. A 1000w light has a footprint of 5x5 when 18" from your plant canopy. That means 2'6" in all directions from the bulb. You can add a little more when you have 2 lights side by side because the extra foot in the middle is receiving tlight from 2 bulbs which add up to sufficient footcandles.


hey phillip how do you measure 2'6"? do you measure it from the long end of the hood and wide end of the hood? i just got the magnum 8in xxxl and im trying to figure out how far to keep the hoods from each other and the wall. im doing 2 1000w for right now.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 19, 2012)

kamie said:


> hey phillip how do you measure 2'6"? do you measure it from the long end of the hood and wide end of the hood? i just got the magnum 8in xxxl and im trying to figure out how far to keep the hoods from each other and the wall. im doing 2 1000w for right now.


Measure it from the center of the bulb. Line your reflectors up length wise of course because that's how the vents line up. So if you had 2 1000w lights they will cover an area 5' wide (2'6" from the wall to the center of the bulb) and a length of 11' (instead of just 5' for 1 light). Instead of placing the 2 hoods 5' apart length wise you can place them 6' because they are stacking light between the 2 of them. I wouldn't do it unless you have to. If you can fit all the plants under them and keep the lights tighter then do that.


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## Sencha (Apr 19, 2012)

I just ordered one of these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-LUMATEK-BALLAST-AIR-COOLED-1000-600-400-watt-HPS-MH-BULBS-LOWEST-PRICE-/200741324882?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ebd1d8852


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## phillipchristian (Apr 19, 2012)

Sencha said:


> I just ordered one of these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-LUMATEK-BALLAST-AIR-COOLED-1000-600-400-watt-HPS-MH-BULBS-LOWEST-PRICE-/200741324882?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ebd1d8852


Hey Sencha, I'd be real careful with that. Looks like a knockoff. Try calling some of the bigger hydro stores or Lumatek themselves. Don't think they have a 400/600/1000w ballast. Not sure but that thing looks fake.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 19, 2012)

This is what I've got for you so far Vertigo. Still a bunch of questions to be answered.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 19, 2012)

Looks like that room needs another 1k


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## phillipchristian (Apr 19, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Looks like that room needs another 1k


You have no IDEA! I've told this guy a 100 times that is not enough light; 3 600's or 4 400's would be better coverage, more economical, and easier to cool. Especially since he's only vegging for 1 week. He keeps telling me about Al B. Fuct and his methods and what he says and how he did it. I finally said dude I'll draw it up anyway you want and just let you learn from experience. He's dead set on following Al's gameplan so I'm just gonna give him what he asks for.


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## Strankon (Apr 19, 2012)

OK Phillip. this is what I have to work with, (1) closet approx. 19 1/2 inch's x approx. 96 inches x 96 inches tall. I intend to use this space for veg. and clone room.
I found that the Quantum badboy 4 foot 6 bulb florescent fixtures will fit perfectly in this space, placing 2 fixtures end to end.
(2) closet, 64 inches x 64 inches x 96 inches tall. this space will be used as a flowering room, I intend to use 1 600 watt HPS in this space.
What are your thoughts on maximizing productivity in the space I have to work with?


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## Sencha (Apr 19, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Hey Sencha, I'd be real careful with that. Looks like a knockoff. Try calling some of the bigger hydro stores or Lumatek themselves. Don't think they have a 400/600/1000w ballast. Not sure but that thing looks fake.



I didn't even think about that. I know the design is different. I sent an email out to Lumatek today. I already ordered it though, couldn't pass up the deal. Fuck!

Edit: Have not heard back from Lumatek but I've found multiple shops selling it. Including Hydrofarms own website. It's new to the mark, from what I can tell. I'll post back when I hear from Lumatek.

Until then. Can someone recommend a bulb for it? I think I'll be putting it in a C.A.P. Luminaire 8" reflector.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 19, 2012)

Strankon said:


> OK Phillip. this is what I have to work with, (1) closet approx. 19 1/2 inch's x approx. 96 inches x 96 inches tall. I intend to use this space for veg. and clone room.
> I found that the Quantum badboy 4 foot 6 bulb florescent fixtures will fit perfectly in this space, placing 2 fixtures end to end.
> (2) closet, 64 inches x 64 inches x 96 inches tall. this space will be used as a flowering room, I intend to use 1 600 watt HPS in this space.
> What are your thoughts on maximizing productivity in the space I have to work with?


Hey bud, thanks for stopping by. Well, i've never designed anything that small but what the hell.

What style grow do you do? How many plants do you want? A 600w light has a footprint of 4x4 basically so you'll have a little room to play with on either side. Where are you exhausting your light to? What about cooling; what are your plans? Are you hydro or soil? I think a SOG or maybe SCROG would be a good option for you. If not you could probably get 4 nice sized trees (4-5') under that light. Your ceiling is 8ft. so you have plenty of room there.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 19, 2012)

Sencha said:


> I didn't even think about that. I know the design is different. I sent an email out to Lumatek today. I already ordered it though, couldn't pass up the deal. Fuck!
> 
> Edit: Have not heard back from Lumatek but I've found multiple shops selling it. Including Hydrofarms own website. It's new to the mark, from what I can tell. I'll post back when I hear from Lumatek.
> 
> Until then. Can someone recommend a bulb for it? I think I'll be putting it in a C.A.P. Luminaire 8" reflector.


Yea, just checked it out on the Hydrofarm website. Wow. That's the first time I've seen that ballast. Very cool.

For bulbs I think you're fine with any of the major brands; Hortilux, Digilux, etc... I personally use Sunmaster bulbs most of the time because they are great bulbs; I've never had a problem with them; and they are a lot cheaper than the others.


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## Strankon (Apr 19, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Hey bud, thanks for stopping by. Well, i've never designed anything that small but what the hell.
> 
> What style grow do you do? How many plants do you want? A 600w light has a footprint of 4x4 basically so you'll have a little room to play with on either side. Where are you exhausting your light to? What about cooling; what are your plans? Are you hydro or soil? I think a SOG or maybe SCROG would be a good option for you. If not you could probably get 4 nice sized trees (4-5') under that light. Your ceiling is 8ft. so you have plenty of room there.


Thanks for that warm welcome.
As far as "style", I prefer to grow in a soilless mix, and stick to a prescribed nutrient plan, per stage of development, I also prefer to top my plants to produce more tops and maybe some LST to keep the tops level.
I plan to have a passive intake allowing cool air from my air conditioned house to cool the room, and a 6'' air cooled hood exausting through the ceiling into the attic.
I'd like to grow plant big enough to produce around 8 oz's of bud apiece. 4 8 oz. plants would be awesome!


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## Sencha (Apr 19, 2012)

I couldn't believe the price on it. I had been considering the Harvest Pro E, Magnetic, so I could spend some extra on a big ass reflector. I just couldn't pass up the 1000 watt lumatek, so I'll be buying a cheap reflector. 

Sorry to derail the thread. No work on the room tonight. My real job is kicking my ass this week.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 19, 2012)

Strankon said:


> Thanks for that warm welcome.
> As far as "style", I prefer to grow in a soilless mix, and stick to a prescribed nutrient plan, per stage of development, I also prefer to top my plants to produce more tops and maybe some LST to keep the tops level.
> I plan to have a passive intake allowing cool air from my air conditioned house to cool the room, and a 6'' air cooled hood exausting through the ceiling into the attic.
> I'd like to grow plant big enough to produce around 8 oz's of bud apiece. 4 8 oz. plants would be awesome!


If you top and LST your plants then you should be able to fit 4 under that light. Figuring 2sq.ft. per plant. Just don't LST too much. LOL. Even then 8oz. per plant might be pushing it. That would require bigger plants I think. 4-5oz. per plant would be a safer bet. Smaller plants give you better yields per space anyway.


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## georgyboy (Apr 20, 2012)

Do you help with tiny grow systems? I have a 2x5x6.5 closet and a lot of ideas but really need some direction.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 20, 2012)

georgyboy said:


> Do you help with tiny grow systems? I have a 2x5x6.5 closet and a lot of ideas but really need some direction.


Post away buddy! I don't have much experience with small grows so I don't know all the tricks to cooling and lighting but I'm here to help in anyway that I can.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 20, 2012)

georgyboy said:


> Do you help with tiny grow systems? I have a 2x5x6.5 closet and a lot of ideas but really need some direction.


I would be willing to help anyway i can to


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## kamie (Apr 20, 2012)

hey phillip, when using a/c with an intake and outake fans, do i keep my fans on the high setting? i usually have them on the high setting except when its really cold i have it either on medium or low.... also do i keep the A/C on 24/7? its about 80 degrees here. good thing i have them sleeping during the day and awake at night.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 20, 2012)

kamie said:


> hey phillip, when using a/c with an intake and outake fans, do i keep my fans on the high setting? i usually have them on the high setting except when its really cold i have it either on medium or low.... also do i keep the A/C on 24/7? its about 80 degrees here. good thing i have them sleeping during the day and awake at night.


Hey Kamie, if you have an a/c in the room you shouldn't need intake and exhaust fans.. if you are trying to bring fresh air and C02 into the room then just run the intake fan on low speed when the lights are on. This will create positive pressure in your room which will force air out through the cracks and under doors. If you are worried about smell then seal your room or get a good carbon filter. In my opinion you should just seal the room anyway. Get a good carbon filter and close up those vents. Will help eliminate possible future problems like bugs, mold, and mildew. Your plants don't need elevated Co2 levels to produce nice buds. Plenty of really good growers don't even use Co2. You can get a generator later on when you have your grow dialed in. Get you setup and nutes on point through a few grows then look at adding Co2.

Your a/c should have a thermostat on it. It should be left on all the time. When it hits the set temperature usually the fans and display will stay on but the compressor will shut off. The compressor is what uses most of the electricity. Set the a/c to the temperature you want. Always measure temps on your plant canopy (under the lights at tops of plants) for a true reading of their temps. 75 for rooms with no Co2. 84 for rooms with Co2. Those are the temps you want to shoot for. If your a/c doesn't have a thermostat then you need to get a thermostat fan controller with a temperature probe. Any hydro store has them. You plug the controller into the outlet and the a/c into the controller. You'll have to play with it for a while to get your temps dialed in. They aren't always totally accurate. You may have to set it 2-3 degrees in wither direction to get the temps you want. Try and get one with day and night dials. Your plants actually like a temperature drop during daark cycle (5-10 degrees). Something like this:




Another thing to remember is that when your a/c is not running it cannot dehumidify your room. A/C's are heat pumps essentially and the compressor needs to be running in order for them to dehumidify. This usually isn't a problem when the lights are on but when they go off and your a/c isn't on that often it can be an issue. If you have humidity issues then look for a small (30 pint) portable dehumidifier. Just leave it on 24/7. It is like the a/c and will only run when needed. If you have somewhere to drain it then get one that has a drain to waste hose (Danby, Sunpentown, DeLonghi). Another thing you could do is stick it on a stand and drain it to a reservoir. The runoff from dehumidifiers is VERY clean. You can use it to feed your plants. It's basicallly distilled water and has a pppm usually around 15-20.

Best of luck man.


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## HydroDawg421 (Apr 20, 2012)

I've completed 2 grows with some amazing results. I am now in the process of tweaking my 13' x 7' x 7' grow room and would love a floor plan and some assistance on how to layout my lights for max lumens/coverage. I currently have (2) Magnum XXXL 1,000W lights and _may_ need to add another for a total of (3) Magnum XXXL's.

I haven't had issues with heat since I grew in the fall & winter of 2011. With the summer fast approaching the outside temps will be 95+ degrees. So there is no way I can grow without an a/c in that room. I'm going to do the following upgrades:


Install 24,000 BTU mini split a/c system
pull a 100amp sub panel off of my 200amp main panel
mount my (2) 1,000w ballasts outside the room and put them on dedicated 20amp breakers
locate everything that I can that generates heat outside the room
pull some additional outlets from the sub panel so I can have power, power and more power without worrying about tripping breakers. All on dedicated circuits.

*
Here is what I'm concerned with and would love some input* 

During flowering my whole damn house and depending on the wind direction, some of my yard smells like weed. BIG TIME! 

I'm going to line the floor, walls & ceiling with 20Mil heavy duty vapor barrier (*$550 a roll & used in construction to prevent Radon gas from entering crawl spaces, etc!*) and install a BIG can filter and HO fan to scrub the air in the room and hopefully eliminate seepage in to the rest of the house and the yard. 

It is my intentions to have a sealed grow. I can pull cool air from INSIDE the room across my lights and just exhaust inside the room since I have a 24k BTU a/c. I do NOT want to intake or exhaust any air outside of the room. I want this bitch sealed 100%. 

I'm not really worried about the heat. EVERYTHING that generates heat will be outside the room except the lights themselves. I'll have a HUGE 24k BTU a/c in a relatively small space so even with (2) 1,000w lights I should be able to hang meat in there! I also run a water chiller so I'm not worried about res temps. I also run CO2 @ 1500ppm. 
*
This room is VERY stealth . . . Right up to the part where it smells like a dead skunk in the house/yard!!!
*

*Am I being naive to think I can COMPLETELY kill the smell of Cannabis flowering?*
*Can you tell me about positive & negative air pressure and how it may affect my ability to hide the smells in this scenario?*
*How should my lights be arranged? I have (2) Magnum XXXL's that are 32.5"L x 26.25"W x 7.75"H*
*Do I need to add a 3rd Magnum XXXL*
*I'm looking to maximize my space and grow as much as I can in an RDWC setup. Probably 18 buckets total. *
*The total length of my RDWC setup from the heart cell (reservoir) to the last bucket will be about 100" total.*
*The DWC buckets are in rows of 2 buckets. So 9 rows of 2 buckets = 18 total.*
*I can easily adjust the width of the buckets.*
*

*


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## kamie (Apr 20, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Hey Kamie, if you have an a/c in the room you shouldn't need intake and exhaust fans.. if you are trying to bring fresh air and C02 into the room then just run the intake fan on low speed when the lights are on. This will create positive pressure in your room which will force air out through the cracks and under doors. If you are worried about smell then seal your room or get a good carbon filter. In my opinion you should just seal the room anyway. Get a good carbon filter and close up those vents. Will help eliminate possible future problems like bugs, mold, and mildew. Your plants don't need elevated Co2 levels to produce nice buds. Plenty of really good growers don't even use Co2. You can get a generator later on when you have your grow dialed in. Get you setup and nutes on point through a few grows then look at adding Co2.
> 
> Your a/c should have a thermostat on it. It should be left on all the time. When it hits the set temperature usually the fans and display will stay on but the compressor will shut off. The compressor is what uses most of the electricity. Set the a/c to the temperature you want. Always measure temps on your plant canopy (under the lights at tops of plants) for a true reading of their temps. 75 for rooms with no Co2. 84 for rooms with Co2. Those are the temps you want to shoot for. If your a/c doesn't have a thermostat then you need to get a thermostat fan controller with a temperature probe. Any hydro store has them. You plug the controller into the outlet and the a/c into the controller. You'll have to play with it for a while to get your temps dialed in. They aren't always totally accurate. You may have to set it 2-3 degrees in wither direction to get the temps you want. Try and get one with day and night dials. Your plants actually like a temperature drop during daark cycle (5-10 degrees). Something like this:
> 
> ...


hey phillip i have the single hose ac unit. would that mean i can't seal everything up and leave the a/c on? if not I'm okay with buying the dual hose one. with the dual hose i'd pull air in through one hose and then vent the other right? also the run off from dehumidifiers can i save it in a 5 gal water bottle with the lid closed for another day or would i have to use it during a certain period? i have a dehumidifier and when the bucket is full i usually just pour it out. didn't know i can reuse it. thanks phillip


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## cuzogucci19 (Apr 20, 2012)

Wondering if you can help me out I have a room with 1 window it 10x10x8. I have 3 600w hps, 2 exhaust fans(1 has carbon filter with it, 1 blower fan. How would you set this up? Any lldesigns would be greatly appreciated.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 21, 2012)

kamie said:


> hey phillip i have the single hose ac unit. would that mean i can't seal everything up and leave the a/c on? if not I'm okay with buying the dual hose one. with the dual hose i'd pull air in through one hose and then vent the other right? also the run off from dehumidifiers can i save it in a 5 gal water bottle with the lid closed for another day or would i have to use it during a certain period? i have a dehumidifier and when the bucket is full i usually just pour it out. didn't know i can reuse it. thanks phillip


Hey Kamie, go ahead and seal the room. You a/c will exhaust air out of the room creating a slight negative pressure in there. That is fine as it will help you keep smells in. Just make sure not to seal it up too tight. Have a crack under the door or something. No need to get a dual hose unit. You can save the dehumidifier water as long as you want. Just make sure you clean the air filter every couple weeks.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 21, 2012)

cuzogucci19 said:


> Wondering if you can help me out I have a room with 1 window it 10x10x8. I have 3 600w hps, 2 exhaust fans(1 has carbon filter with it, 1 blower fan. How would you set this up? Any lldesigns would be greatly appreciated.


Hey bud, thanks for stopping by.

Can youl let me know wha wall the window and the door are on? Like north, east, etc... Also, what grow style do you use? Soil or hydro? And generally speaking, how tall do you grow your plants?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 21, 2012)

HydroDawg421 said:


> I've completed 2 grows with some amazing results. I am now in the process of tweaking my 13' x 7' x 7' grow room and would love a floor plan and some assistance on how to layout my lights for max lumens/coverage. I currently have (2) Magnum XXXL 1,000W lights and _may_ need to add another for a total of (3) Magnum XXXL's.
> 
> I haven't had issues with heat since I grew in the fall & winter of 2011. With the summer fast approaching the outside temps will be 95+ degrees. So there is no way I can grow without an a/c in that room. I'm going to do the following upgrades:
> 
> ...


Hey HydroDawg. Thanks for stopping by. Glad to help. Sounds like you are ready to step it up a notch. Congrats man. Always fun when you grow BIG!!!  Just a couple suggestions and feedback and then i'll get working on a plan depending on your answers.

Is there anyway you could mount that minisplit on the North or East walls? You can put the coondensor anywhere outside but I think that West wall is you best bet for plants and lighting. Would be ideal if you could have the a/c on the East wall blowing at the plants. Also more efficient. Let me know. 

I'm gonna make some suggestions in regards to your lighting. First off, you have plenty of cooling with a 2 ton a/c unit for 3 lights. It's up to you but I would get a 3rd light ad maybe a 4th in the future. If you have no electrical issues and are looking to expand then you have plenty of room in there for up to 4; an possibly 5; lights. For now I would get the 3rd light if you are thinking about it anyway. If you are going to get the 3rd light then let me know so that I can make the plan accordingly.

Something to think about...with only a 7' ceiling you have very limited plant height to work with using those 1000w lights. Your light will take up a foot and then you can't have plants any closer than a foot. Plus you DWC buckets will use 14-18". So you are looking at 3'6" plants max I think. You could add 6" to that by running your ballasts dimmed to 600w. If you have dimmable ballasts then you always run the appropriate bulb for the setting. Don't dim a 1000w bulb; dim your ballast and run a 600w bulb. Just something to think about.

How tall do you normally grow your plants? Do you make them bushy as well? Just trying to get a general idea as to the footprint you will need for that system. Sounds like you grow fairly large plants and I think you might need a 3rd light to cover the distance of 9 plants.

If you are bringing a subpanel into that room then I would make some changes to your electrical setup. Are you running the a/c off that subpanel? What kind of ballasts do you have? I imagine that the a/c runs on 240v. If you have ballasts that can be wired for 240v as well then I would get the cords and wire then that way. The amount of money you'll save on cable and the subpanel will more than pay for the 240v cords. If you go that route you won't need a 100amp subpanel anymore. You will be fine with a 60amp panel as your lights will only be drawing about 10-15amps total and your a/c would draw another 10amps. That would leave you safely 20amps for other equipment. Either way, when you get into 3-4 light grows Irecommend light controller boxes. They are the safest way to run multiple lights. Basically you would hardwire the box directly from your subpanel. Then you would plug the ballasts into the box. You can get the box with a built in timer or just use any timer that you have. The box runs the power for the lights on a seperate circuit that is hardwired to your subpanel. You still need to power the relays of the box and the timer. This is why the boxes have a "trigger cord" which it a 120v plug that does't use any more electricity than it takes to flip a relay. You would then plug this trigger cord into a High Temp/Hot Strike box which is plugged into the wall outlet or into your timmer if you choose to use that. These high temp boxes basically prevent your lights from Hot Restrikes after a power failure or surge.The box will make your lights wait 10 minutes before coming back on. Will save your bulbs and increase their lifespan. They also have thermostates and probes to shut your lights off in the event that something happens and your room reaches a temperature setpoint. Usually 90-95 degrees and you want to shut it down. As soon as temps drop back down the box with then flip the relays on your light controller and turn the lamps back on. These boxes ar well worth the $70 they cost. Also; having a light controller is very efficient and safe.

If you set it up this way then all you would need were 4 outlets in the room on 2 20amp breakers. 20amps for 2 outlets is more than enough. You won't need anymore power than that for the additional equipment you will put in there. A dehumidifier or a chiller is only going to use 5 amps.

I would recommend a small dehumidifier. Minisplit units are great at dehumidifying but like all a/c's they have to be cooling to actually dehumidify. During the dark cycle most a/c units don't work as often and therefore do not dehumidify as much. Sometimes this can lead to humidity spikes. Something to think about. Although, if you are running your lights at night and during the day it gets to 90+ outside maybe your a/c will be running enough to keep the humidity in check. I would keep an eye on it.

$550 a roll? Damn bro. I would save your money man. Get some silicone and caulk and seal the room up nicely. If you have exposed joists or framing then hang some plywood or drywall. Then put duct insulation wrap on all of the walls (http://www.ecofoil.com/Applications/Residential-Insulation/R-8-HVAC-Duct-Wrap-Insulation). Not only is it a great reflective material but also acts as insulation for your room which will make your a/c much more efficient. That with a good carbon filter and you will be fine. I promise. Plus it will save you a ton of money. I would recommend the CAN 75 filter and a good 8" high output fan. Buy CAN or Vortex cause most of the other fans don't come close to their advertised CFM ratings.

I'm all for sealed grow environments. You can still seal your room but exhaust your lights though. If it get's hot outside I think you'll be surprised how much your a/c is going to be running; especially with 3,000w of lighting. 1000w lights can create a need for 8,000btu of cooling all by themselves if they are not vented from the room. So you could easily find yourself in a situation where your a/c is running the whole time the lights are on. If it is a possibility I would just create a closed loop on your lights. Pull air from outside of the room through the lights and then exhaust it back out of the room. You can seal this loop by using insulated ducting and flashing tape or foil tape to completely seal your hoods. You won't have any odor issues with the exhausting air this way. The other option would be to pull air from your room through a carbon filter and then exhaust that outside. I would still use the CAN 75 to scrub the air in the room and just get a small CAN 33 for the intake side of your lights. Either way you aren't going to have ANY issues with odor. Plus your a/c will work much more efficiently and last a lot longer. I know you said "NO" vents but I just wanted to throw that out there.

Just a suggestin but try and put your ballasts in a room that is cooled by the house or with a wall fan mounted to blow on them. Electronics like to run in cool temps. They can heat up really fast (especially if that chiller is in the room with them) and this can lead to shortened usage times and other problems.

Your specific questions:

1. You are not being naive. You ould fill that room with 4-5 lights and all the plants you want. If it is sealed correctly (vented hoods or not) and you have an appropriate filter/fan then you won't have any issues with odor outside. 
2. You either create positive, negative, or neutral air pressure in your room with the ventilation setup that you have. If you are bringing air into your room from outside of that space then you hav positive pressure in the room and the air will look for places to get out as new air comes in; usually under doors or through cracks and windows. If you are pulling air out of the room (like i described with the filter on your lights and exhausting the air outside) then you have created negative pressure in your room. This is ideal for most growers because you are controlling the odor of the exhausting air and by creating negative pressure all of the places where air can move in and out are sucking air into the room. That way no air is escaping that is not passed over a filter. Keeps smells from pouring out cracks and under doors. The way you have it setup is neutral air pressure. You are neither exhausting air from anywhere or intaking air. The problem with neutral pressure is that you can not control the intake or exhaust of the air. That will be determined by the airflow and the pressure of the rooms around you. If the other side of your door has negative pressure than it will pull air from your room.
3. I really think you are going to need another light. If at all possible I would run them at 600w with 600w bulbs. If not I just don't see how you can fit 9 plants in a row under a 10' span. A 1000w lights basically has a 5x5 footprint; even with those hoods. Maybe 6-12" more if they are side by side. Still, that would mean you really only have about 14" width for each plant. I would put them on the West wall. At 13' long that would be perfect for 3 lights and would also keep them in a straight line which is always more efficient for ducting. If that is a problem then I would do an "L" shape between the West & North walls or the North & East walls. If you go with 2 lights fo now then you can put them on either the East or the West wall. I just don't like having my lights right in front of the door to the room.
4. I think so. You could get more grow sites if you add another light. You say that your system is only 100" long but that must mean you are growing some SMALL plants man. With that length you are only giving your plants like 8" of width. A 12" plant needs that much width. Your bucketsa have to be bigger than that? If so then you could definitely get away with 18 under the 2 lights. I would say go with 3 and maximize the amount of buckets that you can fit in there. Maybe 22-26. Grow some bushy plants. Maybe LST and TOP them in veg. Keep them short but with multiple colas.
5. If you wanna grow "as much as you can" then get 2 600w ballasts nd create and "L" shape between the West & North walls. You can fit maybe 26-30 buckets in that space. Probably would want to get a bigger reservoir or run dual reservoirs. If you ran dual reservoirs you could do a perpetual cycle which would allow you to harvest every month instead of every other month. I'm just fantasizing for you right there. LOL!!! Shit, you could get up to 6 lights in that room no problem and still have plenty of room. Get 40-50 buckets going....no I'm getting crazy!

Well, I think that's all I have to say on that. Probably just gave myself arthritis. Let me know what you think.


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## HydroDawg421 (Apr 21, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Hey HydroDawg. Thanks for stopping by. Glad to help. Sounds like you are ready to step it up a notch. Congrats man. Always fun when you grow BIG!!!  Just a couple suggestions and feedback and then i'll get working on a plan depending on your answers.
> 
> Is there anyway you could mount that minisplit on the North or East walls? You can put the coondensor anywhere outside but I think that West wall is you best bet for plants and lighting. Would be ideal if you could have the a/c on the East wall blowing at the plants. Also more efficient. Let me know.
> 
> ...


*WoW! This is amazing information! Thank You so MUCH!!!*



I will definitely set this up for 240v so it draws less amps
The a/c will run off of 240v also
My ballasts will be mounted to the backside of the South wall which is actually in a very big crawlspace area. The temps are usually 65-70 degrees in this area.
Integrate a light controller box & hot strike box. I'm assuming these are 2 separate devices? (do you recommend any particular brands? CAP, Titan?)
Add a 3rd light. I think a 3 light setup will be easier with ducting & raising/lowering the lights. I'll attach 2 drawings. one for a 3 light setup & one for a 4 light setup.
I currently have (2) of the Quantum 1000w dimmable ballasts and can run them at 25, 50, 75 or 100% ( http://www.quantumhort.com/quantum-1000-watt-dimmable.html )
I currently have a 6 site DWC and can expand to 12 or 18 buckets depending on the lighting, etc. I'm not dead set on doing 18 buckets, I can consider doing just 12 buckets and growing larger plants. I don't want to crowd my room with too many plants and I want some room to move around inside the room. I need some input on this! 12 or 18 ???
I am concerned with the height of the room. My first grow I LST'd & topped. My 2nd grow I did a SCROG (this is a lot of work!) For this grow I was thinking about topping/fimming to get short bushy plants
I will find some 5 or 10MIL vapor barrier that is a lot cheaper and also caulk/seal the room. I was going overkill with the $550 a roll stuff just to be safe.
The room has plywood on the floor, walls & ceiling and the room is insulated with either R19 or R22 (I forget).
I will DEFINITELY be getting a CAN75 filter and a couple of CAN or Vortex fans.

*Here are my options for cooling the lights:
*


I can intake air for the lights from the South wall which is the crawl space underneath the house. The air will always stay 65-70 degrees since it comes from under the house. I can then exhaust it outside via the foundation vent on the North wall. I'll use a CAN/Vortex fan(s) to drive this at a HIGH CFM. This option won't allow for a 'straight run' of ducting though so it WILL be less efficient.
I could intake air for the lights from the West wall throughout the foundation and exhaust it out the foundation vent on the North wall. However this air would be as hot as 95 degrees in the summer. I know a straight run allows for more CFM air flow but where is the trade off? Hot air in a straight run or much cooler air with a couple of bends?
I could intake from either the crawlspace or outside and then vent it back in to the crawlspace via the East wall. Although I don't know about blowing warm air under the house.I would worry about condensation and then mold/mildew once the outside temperatures drop in the fall/winter.

*Should I mount these lights to the ceiling and not worry about raising or lowering or will my lumens drop off? I think at the beginning of the grow the lights will be 40"-48" or more from the tops of the buckets to the lights. Is this too far?

OR Should I stick with (3) lights and a 6 bucket setup and just grow some HUGE plants?
*
Checkout the 2 .jpg's I have attached. I like the 3 light setup for simplicity but am not opposed to a 4 light setup if it gives me distinct advantage of the 3 light setup!

*Feel free to add anything that I may have missed!
*


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## HydroDawg421 (Apr 21, 2012)

I have found a couple of lighting controllers, I guess either will work just fine?

*CAP MLC 4x lighting controller:
*http://www.vminnovations.com/Product_15615/MLC-4X-C-A-P-4-HID-Light-Master-Lighting-Controller.html 

*Titan Controls Helios 11 - 4 light controller
*http://www.ebay.com/itm/110841106902?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_1180


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## phillipchristian (Apr 21, 2012)

HydroDawg421 said:


> *WoW! This is amazing information! Thank You so MUCH!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey bud. This is why we put things on paper first. Know that I have it laid out I think some changes need to be made.

First off, I think you can do 12 plants pretty easily under 2 lights. Assuming you bush them out a little to keep them short and each plant has a width of 18-24" then you will have no problem fitting them all under 2,000w. A 1000w light has a footprint of roughly 5x5. That footprint increases when you have 2 lights side by side. So covering a plant area that is 3'-4' wide and 9'-12' long will not be a problem.

I would try and keep the chiller outside of the room as well. Not a big deal but they do produce heat that should be exhausted out of the room. I'm not sure which one you have but it soulnd like you are running you nutrient solution through the chiller. This is not a good idea and will lead to chiller failure. Not sure how the aquarium ones function but maybe they work for this application since they are designed to run saltwater through them anyway.

Your venting is gonna be tough. Long runs like that with curves in them just kill the CFM on a fan. You might have to oversize the fan (10" high output) and use a duct reducer. Also, hang your carbon filter and fan close to the ceiling to save room.

The light controller box and hot strike box are differrent. I use C.A.P. and I've never had a problem with them. I'd recommend the MLC-4XT which has the built in timer. For the hot strike box I'd recommend the HLC-3e.

With 2 lights I think you can get away with venting them back into the room if you get all the other equipment that produces heat out of there. I would still try and vent it outside but maybe getting extra fans and all that ducting might not be worth it for now.

I think it would be way more efficient to have your a/c unit on the North wall if at all possible. This will keep the lights from interfering with the air from the a/c and will blow cold air directly onto your plants. Not that big a deal though.

Let me know what you think. I just realized I messed up the ducting by accident. Should be pulling from up top and venting down below.


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## cuzogucci19 (Apr 21, 2012)

Wondering if you can help me out I have a room with 1 window it 10x10x8. I have 3 600w hps, 2 exhaust fans(1 has carbon filter with it, 1 blower fan. How would you set this up? Any designs would be greatly appreciated.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 21, 2012)

cuzogucci19 said:


> Wondering if you can help me out I have a room with 1 window it 10x10x8. I have 3 600w hps, 2 exhaust fans(1 has carbon filter with it, 1 blower fan. How would you set this up? Any designs would be greatly appreciated.


You posted yesterday and I responded with some question. Please look at my response to your last post on the previous page.


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## cuzogucci19 (Apr 21, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Hey bud, thanks for stopping by.
> 
> Can youl let me know wha wall the window and the door are on? Like north, east, etc... Also, what grow style do you use? Soil or hydro? And generally speaking, how tall do you grow your plants?



Sorry about that. Door would be on north side of room and the window is directly across on the south side. In growing in soil and let my plants get no bigger then 4 feet. Something like that

.......Wall......
door.........window
........wall......


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## cuzogucci19 (Apr 21, 2012)

I'm also having heating issues with the setup I currently have now which is in the shape of a triangle with lights. I need to keep heat down as much as I can because 88 is way too high and ac really is no option. My current setup is something like this ( I'm on my phone so nevermind the periods)

....light....
|............| 
Light...... Light


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## phillipchristian (Apr 21, 2012)

cuzogucci19 said:


> I'm also having heating issues with the setup I currently have now which is in the shape of a triangle with lights. I need to keep heat down as much as I can because 88 is way too high and ac really is no option. My current setup is something like this ( I'm on my phone so nevermind the periods)
> 
> ....light....
> |............|
> Light...... Light


 3 lights (1800watts) seems like a lot without a/c. Surprised you aren't getting higher temps already. Summer's coming and my guess is you're gonna need some other form of cooling. Why is a/c not an option?

Roughly how many plants do you want to grow? Are you exhausting your hoods out of the room with air cooled reflectors? What size are the vents; 6" or 8"?


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## cuzogucci19 (Apr 21, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> 3 lights (1800watts) seems like a lot without a/c. Surprised you aren't getting higher temps already. Summer's coming and my guess is you're gonna need some other form of cooling. Why is a/c not an option?
> 
> Roughly how many plants do you want to grow? Are you exhausting your hoods out of the room with air cooled reflectors? What size are the vents; 6" or 8"?



Well of I absolutely have to I can purchase a AC system just didn't know where to put one. In growing 7 plants under each light. Yes I'm exhausting the heat out the the lamps with a 440cfm fan and two 240 cfm duct boosters. Everything is 6"


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## cuzogucci19 (Apr 21, 2012)

Also what size AC unit would you recommend for the room size of 10x10x10 with those 3 600w running?


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## HydroDawg421 (Apr 21, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Hey bud. This is why we put things on paper first. Know that I have it laid out I think some changes need to be made.
> 
> First off, I think you can do 12 plants pretty easily under 2 lights. Assuming you bush them out a little to keep them short and each plant has a width of 18-24" then you will have no problem fitting them all under 2,000w. A 1000w light has a footprint of roughly 5x5. That footprint increases when you have 2 lights side by side. So covering a plant area that is 3'-4' wide and 9'-12' long will not be a problem.
> 
> ...




*This looks fantastic!

I do have a couple more questions:*



Should I mount my lights flush to the ceiling and not worry about raising or lowering them?

This would put the plants 40"-48" from the lights at the beginning of the grow and will be reduced as the weeks pass because the plants will grow up. Is this too far away?



What are your thoughts on adding a 3rd light?

I think I'm going to use an HO fan to pull cool air from within the room across the lights and just vent it in to the room. This will at least pull some of the heat away from the canopy and will help lower the temps. 



Can I get away with not exhausting the lights if I use a 3rd light? Is 2 the limit without exhausting?

Bulbs


I have used HPS for BOTH veg & flower. Should I use MH for veg & HPS for flower?
Should I use the Hortilux Super Blue MH/HPS Dual Arc? That way I don't have to change bulbs between veg & flower.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 21, 2012)

cuzogucci19 said:


> Also what size AC unit would you recommend for the room size of 10x10x10 with those 3 600w running?


You said you are exhausting your lights but are you exhausting them out of your grow room?

They make portable 12,000btu a/c units. Get a dual hose unit and connect the hoses to your window or a vent. That way you won't be exchanging air with the outside. Just using the outside air to cool the a/c unit.


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## cuzogucci19 (Apr 21, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> You said you are exhausting your lights but are you exhausting them out of your grow room?
> 
> They make portable 12,000btu a/c units. Get a dual hose unit and connect the hoses to your window or a vent. That way you won't be exchanging air with the outside. Just using the outside air to cool the a/c unit.


Do you have a picture of the setup I should use for the 3 lights? It would be greatly appreciated if you had any ideas.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 21, 2012)

HydroDawg421 said:


> *This looks fantastic!
> 
> I do have a couple more questions:*
> 
> ...


Hey bud, I would mount the lights flush to the ceiling and create a table system to raise your plants. I know it seems like a lot fo work but trying to move 2 lights and inline fans and ducting all at once is really tough. Even for 2 people. You don't want to leave your plants that far from the lights; even when they are young. I would honestly build a lift system and put your entire plant setup on the system. They are not hard to build at all. Just some welding needed probably. You could get a contractor to do it in a day or two. Took me and a guy who works for me 2 days to build a system for 84 plants. I have a workshop that puts Bob Villa to shame but it isn't much to do.

If you run a 3rd light then you should put the a/c on the North wall and run your system setup against the South wall. You could probably get 4-6 more buckets in there no problem. 2 rows of 9.

If you vent that air back into the room I think you'll see in the summer that youa/c is working awfully hard to keep up. Try it out. Worst case scenario is you have to get some ducting and a flange later on. With a 3rd light I don't see how you could pull that off. Just too much wattage.

Definitely use HPS for flower. Actually, use MH for veg and the first 2 weeks of flower. Then switch out your bulbs for HPS ones. During the first 2 weeks of flower your plants actually will benefit more from an MH than an HPS.

I wouldn't touch that dual arc with a 10' pole dude. Heard some horror stories about it. Plus the technology is not there. If you want supplemental lighting for flower (without all the expense) then look into UVB bulbs. Sold by most pet stores. They throw off some heat but they give you an excellent mixed spectrum and will increase trichrome production. Just turn them on a little at a time in the beginning and let your plants get used to them. Maybe 3 three 1 hour segments the first week. Then thress 2 hour segments the second week. Then just have them on the full 12 hours. Plants need to harden off to them. Start them out like 2-3' away. You'll see sign of heat stress if they are too close. You can get them as close as 18" byt the end. Check these links out.

Domes
http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/reptile/lighting/clamp-lamps/106745.asp
http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/reptile/lighting/clamp-lamps/116922.asp

Lamps
http://www.petguys.com/-097612340100.html
http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/reptile/lighting/uv-lamps/12129.asp


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## phillipchristian (Apr 21, 2012)

cuzogucci19 said:


> Do you have a picture of the setup I should use for the 3 lights? It would be greatly appreciated if you had any ideas.


Look man, I've asked you a ton of questions that you don't answer. What do you want me to do? Draw you a picture of three lights in the middle of the room? I really don't have enough info man. You have a 10x10 room. Take the 3 lights and make a L shape in a corner of the room. Isn't that the most logical? 1 light in the corner covering a 4x4 area and 1 light on either side. 

I've asked you a ton of questions and you've given very few answers. I really don't have any info besides the wattage of your lights, the size of the room, and that you might get an a/c. You just want me to draw something for you so you can have a picture? Come on man.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 21, 2012)

Based on the LIMITED info you gave me bro...this is the best that I can do.


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## cuzogucci19 (Apr 21, 2012)

Actually bro I gave u all the answers to your questions if you go back and read all the replays u gave me I replied right back with all the answers. I just needed some help no need to come at me like that. But u should go back over these past couple posts between us and u will see all the info I gave you


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## cuzogucci19 (Apr 21, 2012)

Again I will give you the info. 3 600w hps lights 2 exhaust fans, 1 blower fan. Door on north side window on south side. Growing in soil no plant will be taller then 4ft. any help will be greatly appreciated. I thank you for taking the time to help me. If u need anything else I can easily write it for you


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## phillipchristian (Apr 21, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> *Roughly how many plants do you want to grow? Are you exhausting your hoods out of the room with air cooled reflectors? What size are the vents; 6" or 8"?*





phillipchristian said:


> *You said you are exhausting your lights but are you exhausting them out of your grow room?
> *





phillipchristian said:


> Hey bud, thanks for stopping by.
> 
> Can youl let me know wha wall the window and the door are on? Like north, east, etc...* Also, what grow style do you use? Soil or hydro?* And generally speaking, how tall do you grow your plants?





cuzogucci19 said:


> Again I will give you the info. 3 600w hps lights 2 exhaust fans, 1 blower fan. Door on north side window on south side. Growing in soil no plant will be taller then 4ft. any help will be greatly appreciated. I thank you for taking the time to help me. If u need anything else I can easily write it for you


Above you will find a few questions that you did not answer. Also, if you look back on this page you will see that I already posted a design for you. What do you want me to do bro? I have no info. Could you design a room with no info?

* Can you exhaust the lights out of the room? Where?
* What other equipment is in the room?
* How big are the door and window? Are they located smack dab in the middle of the walls? Does the door open inward or outward?
* Where are your vents now?
* How wide are your plants? What size pots are they in? You fit 7 under 1 light? How? Seems like an odd number.
* Soil or hydro? If hydro then what kind?

You've asked me 4 times in 3 pages to post a drawing for you. Based on what I had I already did post one. I don't have any info to determine how to place your plants or what walls you can vent out of. I don't even know if you have flood tables or what you are growing in. I have no clue what you want to do as far as your grow. So, with the very little info I have that is the design you get.


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## bigsexyshaned (Apr 22, 2012)

You have any suggestions for a direct drain dehumidifier? Its for a 500 sq ft room and I have two 4x8 tents and 3x3 also. Humidity is 63 rite now I haven't started yet but I just got everything set up today trying to get everything fine tuned before I start. I had problems with mold before I even thought about starting something here I scrubbed the walls and sprayed the carpets with water that was phd super high. There was only one spot that looked like had mold but I know it spreads really easy so I'm hoping the dehumidifier will help keep the mold at bay if i missed any.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 22, 2012)

@cuzog. Hey dude phillip trying to help you! Might help him if you just scribbled something on paper and take a pic of it
And post it! Then phillip can alter it to whats best.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 22, 2012)

bigsexyshaned said:


> You have any suggestions for a direct drain dehumidifier? Its for a 500 sq ft room and I have two 4x8 tents and 3x3 also. Humidity is 63 rite now I haven't started yet but I just got everything set up today trying to get everything fine tuned before I start. I had problems with mold before I even thought about starting something here I scrubbed the walls and sprayed the carpets with water that was phd super high. There was only one spot that looked like had mold but I know it spreads really easy so I'm hoping the dehumidifier will help keep the mold at bay if i missed any.


I use Danby dehumidifiers. I also know that Sunpentown and DeLonghi are great units as well. Are you putting one in each tent or in the room the tents are in? If you are putting one in each tent then go with the little 30pint Danby. If it's for the room then go with a 70pint. You can also put dehumidifier on a stand and drain them to a reservoir. Then you can use that water for your plants. It basically comes out at 15-25ppm so it's SUPER clean. Just make sure to wash out the air filters every once and a while on the dehumidifier.


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## MonsterBuzz (Apr 22, 2012)

Looking for some pointers on a split ac. I would really like to stay under 1000 but i could go slightly higher if the unit is worth it.

When I was looking them up I found way more than I expected so I hoped to get some opinions as to mfg., features and anything else a newbie might over look.

My room is/will be a sealed 7x9x8 on a north wall with no windows with 3 600w (these are sealed by drawing the air from outside the east wall and exiting it on the outside of west wall). Insulation is r12 or better all around. co2 is by 50# bottles controlled by a cap controller. Plus a 40pint dehumidifier. Ballasts are digi. and will be outside the room. 

I'll add more info on my room if it helps to make a more informed opinion. From what I found so far is 9kbtu unit should do the trick...using some formulas I found around but would it be more advised to get a 12kbtu? 

Now my room is not up and running yet so IF I have to have a tech come out I have no problem with that if it saves me money  I did see a couple of splits that have the charged lines and say you dont need a tech... but they were like 2700 and thats way more than I would care to spend. So do you have a mfg that you would suggest...options that you would look for and any additional items I should get with it? And a good place to buy from? 

Thanks for any insight you can lend!


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## phillipchristian (Apr 23, 2012)

MonsterBuzz said:


> Looking for some pointers on a split ac. I would really like to stay under 1000 but i could go slightly higher if the unit is worth it.
> 
> When I was looking them up I found way more than I expected so I hoped to get some opinions as to mfg., features and anything else a newbie might over look.
> 
> ...


Hey man, try www.minisplitwarhouse.com They have a ton under $1000 and even a few under $800. I'm no expert on mini splits but I think you should go with 12,000btu. You will make up the small price difference on you electricity bill in no time because the a/c will run much more efficiently which will in turn make it last longer. As fo recommendations as to manufacturer I'm not really the guy to ask because I've never owned any of the models I see advertised. I've had only LG models and they have all worked great but they were for homes and not grows. Maybe someone else can chime in.


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## Sencha (Apr 23, 2012)

Now that my bloom room is framed in, I'm doubting my choice to run 2-600s and 1-1k in it. My new Lumatek 1000 watt ballast came today. Final demension is 9'9"x8'10

I know it will all fit. It's a matter of venting the lights with minimal bends in the duct work. I wanted to buy a XXXtreme 8" reflector for my 1k but I might be better off with a smaller reflector.

Any thoughts?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 23, 2012)

How are you setting your plants up Sencha? In an "L" shape? Maybe just run the Lumatek at 600w for now. I agree man, in small spaces the XXXL's just aren't worth it. They are huge and end up causing problems trying to move them or get around them. Check out the Radiant 8".


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## mike91sr (Apr 23, 2012)

Hey man just wanted to run a couple ideas past you. Planning a 5x10x8 room, no co2, inside a cooled room like a mechanical lung. 2600-3000w, ucdwc system w 8 plants.

Gastanker was nice enough to come up witha couple CAD plans for what I was thinking. There is 1x1k with 1x600w on each side, vented together and scrubbed. Also, the plant spacing is because each side has a 400w bare vert bulb hanging to help with the bottom fluff. You can kinda see the fixture that represents it(the circle) behind the front fans. Gastanker has a thread with all the details of the setup and more pictures, footcandle stats, etc. Really some pretty cool shit. 

My original plan was 2x1k with 1x600w MH in between. I'm in the middle of my first run with a 1k, and so far I'm still seeing more fluff than I'd like, hence the new plans. Any suggestions/ideas/criticisms are welcomed! 



This shows the vert bulbs better, and has specs for the bottom of canopy area


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## phillipchristian (Apr 23, 2012)

mike91sr said:


> Hey man just wanted to run a couple ideas past you. Planning a 5x10x8 room, no co2, inside a cooled room like a mechanical lung. 2600-3000w, ucdwc system w 8 plants.
> 
> Gastanker was nice enough to come up witha couple CAD plans for what I was thinking. There is 1x1k with 1x600w on each side, vented together and scrubbed. Also, the plant spacing is because each side has a 400w bare vert bulb hanging to help with the bottom fluff. You can kinda see the fixture that represents it(the circle) behind the front fans. Gastanker has a thread with all the details of the setup and more pictures, footcandle stats, etc. Really some pretty cool shit.
> 
> ...


Hey man, welcome to the thread. Yea, I've stopped by Gastankers thread a few times and talked with him. He's got some really cool shit in that lighting program. I downloaded it and piggybacked it to my autoCad 3D program. Still messing around with it but it'e even better when you have the full capabilities of autoCad 3D to back it up. Let's you put a lot more design specific items in the room. Very cool what he's doing over there. I don't have the patience to be on autoCad. I have to be on it enough for work.  Plus I only have it on my office computer. The full versions are really big programs. Not meant for my laptop.

Seems like you have a pretty good plan there. Any plant over 4' and you should really lollipop them anyway. What you trim off the bottom will grow double on top. Plus it allows for airflow over the soil. I'm guessing your plants right now are pretty big if you have fluff problems with a 1000w. I hang vert bulbs in my room for the exact same reason. 400w MH vertical for every 1000w HPS. If you have adequate cooling and ventilation you should be able to keep a 1000w light as close as 14" from your plants.

I really can't tell where the door is from the drawing but with a 5x10 room you could easily do more than 8 plants if you wanted to. I think you will be fine with 2 x 1000w lights. They have a footprint that will cover that 10' wall easily when side by side. Essentially giving you a grow area of 10'x5'. I would drop in 3 vertical 400w MH, lollipop your plants, and also rotate them every few days so that they get good coverage. I've also seen guys use T5's hung vertically along the walls with great success as supplemental lighting. That might be something to look into.


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## mike91sr (Apr 23, 2012)

Yeah I was pissed when I found out it doesn't work on Mac's (my only personal computers). I have all sorts of software converting software...no use. Ah well, good people RIU are always helpful.

Good advice, thanks. The plan has no door, I was thinking of having an open front. I can't wait to upgrade from the tent I'm in now, but the full access is really nice. Being that I'm not running co2, light leaks are my only concern, not air-tightness. I have a 750cfm fan right now and no issues adding another, so negative pressure is definitely strong enough for smell.

Right now my plants are about 4' tall(not including medium) and I trimmed the bottom foot or so off. I'm not a huge fan of growing plants so tall that I just cut off half of what I grew so I stopped there, but I do still see a few inches of fluff. I'd thought of supplemental lighting, but I couldn't justify anything less than 5-600w for the space and I'd rather just have more main HID lighting. 

Tahoe OG in the waterfarms right as we were trimming the other night. Sorry no better pics of the lower parts of the plants. The right half is mixed mediums with a bare 600 to fill space so don't worry about that lol.


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## Sencha (Apr 23, 2012)

My lights will be in an L-shape. Air in from the veg room cooling my lights and venting to dead space above my drop ceiling. ~400 CFM for now. Keep in mind there's a 4x8 tent in the veg room. 6" flex from the tent, through the bloom wall, into a 450 CFM fan, and out through my 3 sealed lights. I'll also use 2- 6" flex passive into the bloom room. Flex hanging down to create a light trap(this works right?). I'll have a negative pressure room room with the 700 CFM extracting through the Phresh filter.

Since I plan on air cooling both rooms I've decided to grab a new 600 watt bulb and run the new ballast at 600 watts.

That helps the reflector choice because I already own a Luminare 8" and like it, I'll just buy another one.

I'll post an updated sketch tomorrow.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 23, 2012)

mike91sr said:


> Yeah I was pissed when I found out it doesn't work on Mac's (my only personal computers). I have all sorts of software converting software...no use. Ah well, good people RIU are always helpful.
> 
> Good advice, thanks. The plan has no door, I was thinking of having an open front. I can't wait to upgrade from the tent I'm in now, but the full access is really nice. Being that I'm not running co2, light leaks are my only concern, not air-tightness. I have a 750cfm fan right now and no issues adding another, so negative pressure is definitely strong enough for smell.
> 
> ...



I bet if you cut off another 6-8" of the bottom you would get that much more on the tops. I tried it a few years back ona side by side and you may lose 10-12g of fluff on the bottom but I think you get 15-20g more on the top buds.

Plants look great man. Keep us posted.


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## djshorty06 (Apr 24, 2012)

Was wondering it you could help me on a design. Was growing out of tent and not have a 5ft wide x 13 1/2ft long space that I want to have a veg and flower room in. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 24, 2012)

djshorty06 said:


> Was wondering it you could help me on a design. Was growing out of tent and not have a 5ft wide x 13 1/2ft long space that I want to have a veg and flower room in. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Need more info to help out with a design. Like how many doors and windows in the room? What style grower are you; soil or hydro? What size plants do you grow and how many? What equipment do you have or are buying? etc...


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## djshorty06 (Apr 25, 2012)

Sorry about that. Growing in soil. Would like to have one window per room and two doors. Currently growing out of 5 gallon pots with later plans to move to bigger pots like 7 gallon pots. I have T5s in the Veg room and was planning on getting some 600w for the flower room. Been doing SCROG as of lately in the flower room.
*
*


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## Sencha (Apr 25, 2012)

Is standard, indoor/outdoor, caulk light proof?


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## killer chronix (Apr 25, 2012)

Wondering if I could get a little insight on the best way to set up my room. I just recently upgraded and added a second room for flower. It's grow lab 4x8x8 tent with 2 radiant 6's, 2 600 watt lamps, an 8" inline fan, 6" inline fan, and a 6x20" phresh filter. I set it up so the 8" inline is pulling fresh air from outside Through the hoods then exhausting out the chimney stack of the house. I mounted the 6" right to the filter to scrub the air inside of the tent. It is sealed and I do plan on adding co2, is this the best way to set up or is there a better way.

Thanks.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 25, 2012)

djshorty06 said:


> Sorry about that. Growing in soil. Would like to have one window per room and two doors. Currently growing out of 5 gallon pots with later plans to move to bigger pots like 7 gallon pots. I have T5s in the Veg room and was planning on getting some 600w for the flower room. Been doing SCROG as of lately in the flower room.


I'm really confused man. You have a 5' wide space; how are you going to have 2 rooms with 2 doors? Am I reading that wrong? Can you give me more info? Is this halfo of a garage or the back of a basement? Are you building this yourself? Can I put a seperate door for each room (i.e. seperate entrance for the flower room and the veg room). I'll start drawing something up.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 25, 2012)

Sencha said:


> Is standard, indoor/outdoor, caulk light proof?


Caulk comes in a ton of colors. Should be able to find a dark shade. I would think anything but clear would be light proof.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 25, 2012)

killer chronix said:


> Wondering if I could get a little insight on the best way to set up my room. I just recently upgraded and added a second room for flower. It's grow lab 4x8x8 tent with 2 radiant 6's, 2 600 watt lamps, an 8" inline fan, 6" inline fan, and a 6x20" phresh filter. I set it up so the 8" inline is pulling fresh air from outside Through the hoods then exhausting out the chimney stack of the house. I mounted the 6" right to the filter to scrub the air inside of the tent. It is sealed and I do plan on adding co2, is this the best way to set up or is there a better way.
> 
> Thanks.


That's exactly how I would set it up man. Nice job. The only suggestion I would make is maybe picking up a roll of flash tape from the hardware store and making sure your hoods are completely sealed. Will be a pain in the ass everytime you have to clean your bulbs but will keep your room completely sealed. I have heard that the Radiant hoods are pretty well sealed though. I don't know how well they are sealed though cause I have never used them. Another thing to totally reduce the need to clean your glass and bulbs would be to install a filter on the outside of your tent. Most hydro stores sell 6" intake filters. A good HEP one will cost you around $30 and you'll need a flange to attach it to.


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## djshorty06 (Apr 25, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> I'm really confused man. You have a 5' wide space; how are you going to have 2 rooms with 2 doors? Am I reading that wrong? Can you give me more info? Is this halfo of a garage or the back of a basement? Are you building this yourself? Can I put a seperate door for each room (i.e. seperate entrance for the flower room and the veg room). I'll start drawing something up.


Am sorry for the confusion. Yes I am going to be custom building this room. The room will be 4ft wide and 14ft picture it like a rectangle. I am going to be using a corner of my garage. Am going to split the room in half to have two rooms which each will measure 4x7. Yes you can add two doors one for the veg and one for the flower. Hope this helps you and sorry for the confusion. Thanks again for all the help.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 25, 2012)

djshorty06 said:


> Am sorry for the confusion. Yes I am going to be custom building this room. The room will be 4ft wide and 14ft picture it like a rectangle. I am going to be using a corner of my garage. Am going to split the room in half to have two rooms which each will measure 4x7. Yes you can add two doors one for the veg and one for the flower. Hope this helps you and sorry for the confusion. Thanks again for all the help.


No worried bud! I'm on the case. How many plants do you want to grow? How tall do you normally grow your plants? Can I make the veg room smaller than the flower?


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## killer chronix (Apr 26, 2012)

Since the only fresh air I will be bringing into the room will be going directly through my hoods and out my exhaust. Do you think humidity will be an issue once I get some plants in there? also, do you think it would be safe to exhaust air from the hoods out of a window rather then out of a chimney stack? it about 15ft closer to a window then the chimney stack. and lastly if humidity is an issue and I add a dehumidifier that will bring up my temp inside of the tent, how hot is too hot if I add co2? Again, I would like to say thanks for your help.


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## djshorty06 (Apr 26, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> No worried bud! I'm on the case. How many plants do you want to grow? How tall do you normally grow your plants? Can I make the veg room smaller than the flower?


How much smaller? I Have been letting the plants get some what big. My tangerine dream x og kush was about 2ft tall when I sent her into flowering. I have been trying few plants but letting them Veg longer. Trying out different ways to get bigger yields but you the man and any advice I can get from you I am willing to try out! Thanks again


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## phillipchristian (Apr 26, 2012)

killer chronix said:


> Since the only fresh air I will be bringing into the room will be going directly through my hoods and out my exhaust. Do you think humidity will be an issue once I get some plants in there? also, do you think it would be safe to exhaust air from the hoods out of a window rather then out of a chimney stack? it about 15ft closer to a window then the chimney stack. and lastly if humidity is an issue and I add a dehumidifier that will bring up my temp inside of the tent, how hot is too hot if I add co2? Again, I would like to say thanks for your help.


I think you'll be fine as far as humidity if your hoods are sealed correctly. Even if they are not you shouldn't have a problem. I would exhaust them out the window too if the chimney is that far away.

If you have a small space then just get a 30 pint dehumidifier. They hardly add any heat to a room. Plus you can run them drain to waste so you are not constantly changing the collection bucket. If you don't have anywhere to drain it to with the hose then put it on a stand and put a bucket underneath it. Collect the water and use it to water your plants. It's basically distilled water with a VERY low ppm.

With Co2 you want your temps around 82-86. Really don't want to hit 90.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 26, 2012)

djshorty06 said:


> How much smaller? I Have been letting the plants get some what big. My tangerine dream x og kush was about 2ft tall when I sent her into flowering. I have been trying few plants but letting them Veg longer. Trying out different ways to get bigger yields but you the man and any advice I can get from you I am willing to try out! Thanks again


Can you answer these questions?

You have 1 600w in your flower room?
You use a T5 in your veg room?
Do you have moms or do you grow from seed?
Do you have a/c or just intake/exhaust fans?
How many plants do you want to grow? I mean, If you are vegging plants to be 2' tall then you really can only fit about 4 of them under 600w.


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## djshorty06 (Apr 26, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Can you answer these questions?
> 
> You have 1 600w in your flower room? Currently I have a 400w at the moment
> You use a T5 in your veg room? yes
> ...


Filled the answers in the quote box


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## phillipchristian (Apr 26, 2012)

djshorty06 said:


> Filled the answers in the quote box


You basically have to fit all of this into a 4x14 space? What's gonna hurt you is the 4' depth. No matte rhow you set it up you really can only use 1 light in there. I would do like you were originally thinking and just seperate it into 2 rooms that are 4x7. That will give you 3' to have the door open into each room then in your flower room just have 4 plants under a 600w light. You can grow them as big as you need to to fill up the area. You put anymore lights in there and you won't be able to get around the plants. Then use your 400w for your veg room.


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## bigsexyshaned (Apr 26, 2012)

Well I was planning on just doing on dehumidifier but if you suggest doing one in each tent then that's what i will do. I also have a quick question on my exhaust. Seeing as how I am running two 600's in each tent now I only have a 400 cfm fan acting ad both the exhaust and cooling the lights. Do you think this is enough or should i get another small intake fan for only the lights. There in 6" cool tube by the way. Imy set up will look like this. Filter==600==600==fan==.
= equals ducting. Look good to you?
Thank you so much for all the help too I appreciate it brother!


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## phillipchristian (Apr 26, 2012)

bigsexyshaned said:


> Well I was planning on just doing on dehumidifier but if you suggest doing one in each tent then that's what i will do. I also have a quick question on my exhaust. Seeing as how I am running two 600's in each tent now I only have a 400 cfm fan acting ad both the exhaust and cooling the lights. Do you think this is enough or should i get another small intake fan for only the lights. There in 6" cool tube by the way. Imy set up will look like this. Filter==600==600==fan==.
> = equals ducting. Look good to you?
> Thank you so much for all the help too I appreciate it brother!


I think your fine with the fan you have. Especially since the lights are in cooltubes. Just as long as it's not one of those cheap fans that actually only pulls about half its rated CFM. Then I would just upgrade to better fans. The setup looks fine just as long as you are pulling air through you filter and lights and not pushing it.

Always glad to help.


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## djshorty06 (Apr 26, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> You basically have to fit all of this into a 4x14 space? What's gonna hurt you is the 4' depth. No matte rhow you set it up you really can only use 1 light in there. I would do like you were originally thinking and just seperate it into 2 rooms that are 4x7. That will give you 3' to have the door open into each room then in your flower room just have 4 plants under a 600w light. You can grow them as big as you need to to fill up the area. You put anymore lights in there and you won't be able to get around the plants. Then use your 400w for your veg room.


I was thinking about making like barn doors that swing out that way I wont kill space from the door opening in.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 26, 2012)

djshorty06 said:


> I was thinking about making like barn doors that swing out that way I wont kill space from the door opening in.


I gotcha. That's a good idea. In that case I would make the flower room 8' and the veg room 6'. Then just use the 400w in your veg room and 2 600w lights in your flower room. You may still need a little extra light in your veg room if you are going to grow them to 2' in there. Maybe some T5's hung horizontally on the walls or another 400w. Up to you.


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## djshorty06 (Apr 26, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> I gotcha. That's a good idea. In that case I would make the flower room 8' and the veg room 6'. Then just use the 400w in your veg room and 2 600w lights in your flower room. You may still need a little extra light in your veg room if you are going to grow them to 2' in there. Maybe some T5's hung horizontally on the walls or another 400w. Up to you.


Good idea! Am just trying out different styles and methods until I find one that will give me the best results and yield.


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## Sencha (Apr 27, 2012)

Here are the final numbers....Veg room is 9'7"x8'11"x7'9".......Bloom room is 9'9"x8'11"x7'9"

Here is a drawing of the veg room and vent scheme. Fresh air into both rooms will be passive and will share the same fresh air. I'm pushing ~250 CFM into the veg tent. I'm pulling ~400 CFM into the veg room, via sealed light cooling. I'm pulling ~750 CFM into the flower room, via the carbon scrubber. This gives the veg. tent positive pressure, while maintaining negative pressure in both the veg and bloom room.

I have not installed the 6" flex (passive Bloom) yet. And the final Veg wall isn't up. Everything else is done. I still need to buy a couple 24"x80" doors.

-Will the 6" flex, hanging down, be a good enough light trap?
-If I buy some used doors, can I make my own door jams fairly easily?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 27, 2012)

Sencha said:


> Here are the final numbers....Veg room is 9'7"x8'11"x7'9".......Bloom room is 9'9"x8'11"x7'9"
> 
> Here is a drawing of the veg room and vent scheme. Fresh air into both rooms will be passive and will share the same fresh air. I'm pushing ~250 CFM into the veg tent. I'm pulling ~400 CFM into the veg room, via sealed light cooling. I'm pulling ~750 CFM into the flower room, via the carbon scrubber. This gives the veg. tent positive pressure, while maintaining negative pressure in both the veg and bloom room.
> 
> ...


Hey Sencha, i would put another curve in your flex ducting; that will trap the light much better. Let it hang and then curve the bottom part and pin it up somehow. You want 2-3 curves if at all possible. If you have the tools then making a door jamb is pretty easy. You can probably get the wood precut and then all you'll need is a hammer, saw, and wood chisel.


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## ShadesOfBlue (Apr 27, 2012)

phillipchristian is fucking BADASS!


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## Sencha (Apr 27, 2012)

Chisel for routing the door for the hinge? We have a local recycle center that sells used solid core doors. The door I buy will likely be hinged; or at least routed for them.

I love my new grow room. I think I'll be able to cool 1800 watts all summer with 2-3 fan upgrades. I'm willing to run the room around 98F for a month or two.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 27, 2012)

ShadesOfBlue said:


> phillipchristian is fucking BADASS!


Lol! Thanks man.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 27, 2012)

Sencha said:


> Chisel for routing the door for the hinge? We have a local recycle center that sells used solid core doors. The door I buy will likely be hinged; or at least routed for them.
> 
> I love my new grow room. I think I'll be able to cool 1800 watts all summer with 2-3 fan upgrades. I'm willing to run the room around 98F for a month or two.


You need to carve out the slot for the latch in the jamb


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## djshorty06 (Apr 27, 2012)

ShadesOfBlue said:


> phillipchristian is fucking BADASS!


I second that ! !


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## HydroDawg421 (Apr 28, 2012)

MonsterBuzz said:


> Looking for some pointers on a split ac. I would really like to stay under 1000 but i could go slightly higher if the unit is worth it.
> 
> When I was looking them up I found way more than I expected so I hoped to get some opinions as to mfg., features and anything else a newbie might over look.
> 
> ...



I just ordered a 24,000 BTU mini split for $1,024 from http://www.heatandcool.com/

You can never have too much cold air. I would get an 18 or 24k BTU for this setup. That way you can add more lights and not have to upgrade your a/c. This is called scalability !!!


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## phillipchristian (Apr 28, 2012)

HydroDawg421 said:


> I just ordered a 24,000 BTU mini split for $1,024 from http://www.heatandcool.com/
> 
> You can never have too much cold air. I would get an 18 or 24k BTU for this setup. That way you can add more lights and not have to upgrade your a/c. This is called scalability !!!


Whay up Hydro? How goes the new room?


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## evanb (Apr 28, 2012)

First off sorry if this is posted some where, I just can't find the answer.


Hi all. A simple question I hope. Should I get my fresh air intake directly from out side of the house? I live in an area that gets really cold in the winter and can get damn hot & humid in the summer. I am thinking the fresh outdoor air is the best but I would think a "dust shroom" cap needs to be on the intake so no pests, molds or other funk gets into the room.


Thank you in advance.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 28, 2012)

evanb said:


> First off sorry if this is posted some where, I just can't find the answer.
> 
> 
> Hi all. A simple question I hope. Should I get my fresh air intake directly from out side of the house? I live in an area that gets really cold in the winter and can get damn hot & humid in the summer. I am thinking the fresh outdoor air is the best but I would think a "dust shroom" cap needs to be on the intake so no pests, molds or other funk gets into the room.
> ...


Hey Evan, welcome to the thread. I'm not gonna get all the way into this but you don't need a fresh air intake unless you are using it to cool your room. That being said, if you need one then you should put some type of filter over it. You don't have to buy a shroom; you can get a sheet or two of carbon prefilter and HEPA filter from any hardware store and make your own. If you don't want a filter on the outside of your house then pull the outside air into a box you construct and then filter the air in the box before pulling it into your room.


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## Sencha (Apr 28, 2012)

I plan on using 2 or 3, 15 gallon rezes in my veg room. This is the exact container I'll be using until need for something else comes up. http://www.amazon.com/15-Gallon-Water-Storage-Barrel/dp/B0050IO7LA



I get mine for free. Found them in dumpsters outside, do it yourself, car washes. Easy to clean.
The threaded hole on top is about 2- 1/4", I just need to find some kind of hand pump that fits it.


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## Sencha (Apr 29, 2012)

This is going to sound really dumb, but so be it. Until yesterday, I've always had my digital thermometer on a shelf in the room. Close to the lights, but never under them. I also run my lights pretty close to my canopy. 10-12" for both 600s. I always just used the hand test. A minute or two without burning my hand seemed ok. The room itself never got over 75F.

I was actually running 98F at my canopy. So I raised my lights.

I'm working on getting cooler air through my lights, but I might be in the market for a mini split after all


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## phillipchristian (Apr 29, 2012)

Sencha said:


> This is going to sound really dumb, but so be it. Until yesterday, I've always had my digital thermometer on a shelf in the room. Close to the lights, but never under them. I also run my lights pretty close to my canopy. 10-12" for both 600s. I always just used the hand test. A minute or two without burning my hand seemed ok. The room itself never got over 75F.
> 
> I was actually running 98F at my canopy. So I raised my lights.
> 
> I'm working on getting cooler air through my lights, but I might be in the market for a mini split after all


Yea bud, I always tell people to get thermometers with probes on them and actually hang them in their canopy. 10-12" is PERFECT for 600w lights in my opinion. See what you can do to get those temps down so that you can get your lights back into that sweetspot.


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## Sencha (Apr 29, 2012)

My RH is really low at the canopy too. 20%.......Guess I need a humidifier.

-What are my negative affects of maintaining such a low RH?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 29, 2012)

Sencha said:


> My RH is really low at the canopy too. 20%.......Guess I need a humidifier.
> 
> -What are my negative affects of maintaining such a low RH?


http://www.jasons-indoor-guide-to-organic-and-hydroponics-gardening.com/plant-growth-and-humidity.html


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## Hasbroh (Apr 29, 2012)

Hi Phillip, 
I'm really enjoying this thread. Here's one for you;

- Tucson area, hot, hot, hot
- garage is over 100 in summer, humidity around 15% .
- 7x7x7.5h or 6x8 home made closet, 1x1 or 1x2 framing with solid core insulation, thin outer plywood skin
- north wall against interior wall, 6" hole at base for air supply from interior (bedroom)
- exhausted through top, through ceiling into attic
- outward opening door on south side, 4' wide, full height
- (I think) 4x400 HPS for four larger plants at a time, for flowering - this is very flexible. Organic. More plants initially before sexing and maybe some smaller cutting plants (from topping) squeezed in for quicker harvest. Lumatek Ballists on exterior top of closet, can also be tuned for 250 watt and/or 25% energy reduction. 6" air cooled sealed reflectors
- seedlings and vegging (400 MH) in the garage for now, also vegging outdoors
- using Mandala Seeds, which are developed to handle high heat and low humidity, they seem to be living up to claims. Garage is currently 88 degrees and plants are 6 inches from reflector glass and loving it. 
- trying not to use a portable ac but will use if I have to
- ro water, teas, all organic

That's all I can think of, whatcha think?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 29, 2012)

Hasbroh said:


> Hi Phillip,
> I'm really enjoying this thread. Here's one for you;
> 
> - Tucson area, hot, hot, hot
> ...


Hey bud, thanks for stopping by. I know the Arizona heat well my friend. Lived in Scottsdale for almost 5 years. 

Sounds like a great plan. Couple things...

You are gonna need a/c in there. I'm almost sure of it. Get everything up and running and see how them temps do before you put plants in the room but I'm pretty sure that 6" intake fan from the bedroom isn't going to cut it. The ambient heat in the garage is going to make the room into a sweat box. Look into ways to vent the heat from the garage. This may reduce your cooling needs in the room. 88 is really too high for those plants. Do you have Co2 in the room? Even if you do you should look into a dual hose portable a/c or a minisplit for the garage itself. If your seeds are doing fine then that's great but I think the whole point of indoor growing is to get optimal conditions. Plus, in the future you may want to grow other strains.

Where are you venting the lights to? The garage?

Use 1x2's to frame the box. You want an uneven shaped board when framing out a room. The 1" becomes your stud and by having it 2" thick you create a stringer support and a deeper foundation to drive your nails into for the plywood.

Sounds like you want to grow larger plants. If you are going over 3'-4' tall with your plants then I would suggest a higher wattage light. 400w lights are great but they will not give you the canopy penetration you need on taller plants. Either get higher wattages or grow more 3'-4' tall plants. At that height you can fit 4 under each light.


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## Hasbroh (Apr 29, 2012)

They are designed to handle 100+ degrees but I'll get the ac.

Venting to the attic.

How about T5s(coral bulbs etc.) or some other side lighting instead of 600s? I do like big plants- cant' help it, I'm a horticulturalist, lol. But I would like to have versatility as methodologies may change, after all, production is the main factor. Just trying to use less plants for legal reasons (24 total plants). With that in mind is the 7x7, as opposed to 6x8, the best option?

Thanks

Also growing two outdoors in 50 cubic foot planter with shade cloth.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 29, 2012)

Hasbroh said:


> They are designed to handle 100+ degrees but I'll get the ac.
> 
> Venting to the attic.
> 
> ...


I don't have any experience with the coral bulbs but I know there are some threads in the indoor growing section on it. Check the fluorescent sub forum. I use uvb and vertically hung mh bulbs but i have a much larger room. Any veg spectrum supplemental lighting in flower will always aid your grow. Even hanging veg spectrum CFL's will help.

Design your room to your light footprint. If you are going to be using 400w bulbs then they have an optimal footprint of 3x3 when 6-8" from the plant canopy. So if you did 2 rows of 2 lights on either side of the room then you would have a 2' walkway in the middle. Sounds like 6x8 would be the route to go.


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## 420greendream (Apr 30, 2012)

What is the best way to have 12 plants (4 different strains) and harvest every month? no mothers involved


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## HydroDawg421 (Apr 30, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Whay up Hydro? How goes the new room?



My mini split a/c is being delivered today, electrical upgrades are complete, I excavated more dirt to allow for an area for mothers and cloning. I have ordered ALL my supplies and should have this room ready within the next 5-7 days!


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## phillipchristian (Apr 30, 2012)

420greendream said:


> What is the best way to have 12 plants (4 different strains) and harvest every month? no mothers involved


Not sure what your question is. Are you trying to harvest 12 plants every month or are you limited to 12 plants total?


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## jared118 (May 1, 2012)

Would I flip my breaker with 2/1000w plus a 400w


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## jared118 (May 1, 2012)

How hard to do yourself?


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## jared118 (May 1, 2012)

Extension cord from another curcuit?


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## jared118 (May 1, 2012)

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/ContentView?pn=KH_PG_EL_Installing_New_CircuitI'm confused on step 6


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## firsttimehydrogrower (May 1, 2012)

Hey I need help with a closet design. If anyone could help me out that would be awesome. I grow using rubbemaid tubs for my res and my plants. Here's a pic of my room right now.


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## phxrocks (May 2, 2012)

Did some improvements to my room. 12' x 14' x 8' sealed. 6 1000 phantoms over 2 x 18 site 3 gallon bucket systems. The dual zone mini split and Co2 are the recent upgrades. Hoods do not have air moving through them anymore. Temp hasn't been over 81F since I dimmed the ballasts to 750.
3 strains on day 28 of flower.
View attachment 2150515View attachment 2150516View attachment 2150517View attachment 2150518


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## Sencha (May 2, 2012)

phxrocks said:


> Did some improvements to my room. 12' x 14' x 8' sealed. 6 1000 phantoms over 2 x 18 site 3 gallon bucket systems. The dual zone mini split and Co2 are the recent upgrades. Hoods do not have air moving through them anymore. Temp hasn't been over 81F since I dimmed the ballasts to 750.
> 3 strains on day 28 of flower.
> View attachment 2150515View attachment 2150516View attachment 2150517View attachment 2150518View attachment 2150519View attachment 2150520


Can you move the ballasts out of the bloom room? Might drop another 2F in there. Good stuff though. Cheers.


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## Sencha (May 2, 2012)

@ firsttime..........first things first, get your power off the floor.


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## firsttimehydrogrower (May 2, 2012)

Sencha said:


> @ firsttime..........first things first, get your power off the floor.


Ok got it. Now what lol


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## jared118 (May 3, 2012)

The 1g per watt rule of thumb.. Conceits of how much veg?


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## JASON79 (May 3, 2012)

jared118 said:


> The 1g per watt rule of thumb.. Conceits of how much veg?


its hard to get 1g per watt with most strain and systems, its more like 1/2 gram a watt
with a good yielding plants, most will be happy with 10-12 oz's in a basic setup under a 600hps,



ok sog you could get 1g per watt with a lot of strains but a lot of growers do not want 20 + plants under a 600w hps,
laws and time taken for a large amount of cutting from mother plants or seedlings costing a lot and long time to root


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## JASON79 (May 3, 2012)

jared118 said:


> The 1g per watt rule of thumb.. Conceits of how much veg?


more veg time will increases yield 
i found topping and lust increase my canopy size and the extra veg time increase the root mass and in turn increased yield
but some strain do not like topping and lst 

i veg for 6-8 weeks and they are more like bushes than a plant 
my 4 plants under 2 600w hps could do with more space, room size 2.4m x 1m 
i am in 1st week or flower


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## Trulife69 (May 3, 2012)

Yo Phillip, hoping you could help me out. You always seem to have good pointers and I know you have used advanced Nutes a bunch. I posted a question on the forms here and switched my girls into flower 4 days ago and was hoping you could take a look at a couple pics I posted and see what you think it could be. I took pic with the lights on but tomorrow morn I will take a couple when they shut off. 
Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks bro
link below is my post
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/525452-3-days-into-flower-need.html


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## Brother Numsi (May 3, 2012)

I am curious about light rail movers. I am looking at two unfinished closets off of a bedroom over the garage. Ventilation will be easy using direct vent into the attic. The door to the veg area can be left open 24/7. That said, I am hesitant about using 600w or 1000w HPS because of heat searching aircraft. I can use a lot of 250w CFL and 2 T5 or T8 to veg.

So back to the light rail mover. My plan is to grow 6 plants at a time....veg for 5 weeks and flower the remainder of the time. When I begin flowering I'll plant 6 more. If I overcome my fear of aircraft what do you think about 600w HPS on a mover with rachet system in the flower room? Augmenting with 250 CFL of both colors is easy. I could also use a heavy duty light mover and put 2 250w CFL on the mover instead, but it's not as effective.
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance!!

I'll get you some room dementions and a pic or too which should help. I'm in no hurry and want to do it right the first time.


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## phxrocks (May 3, 2012)

Sencha said:


> Can you move the ballasts out of the bloom room? Might drop another 2F in there. Good stuff though. Cheers.


It would be difficult to move them outside. 2 degrees would help though,
Thanks


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## nuglets (May 3, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> I am curious about light rail movers. I am looking at two unfinished closets off of a bedroom over the garage. Ventilation will be easy using direct vent into the attic. The door to the veg area can be left open 24/7. That said, I am hesitant about using 600w or 1000w HPS because of heat searching aircraft. I can use a lot of 250w CFL and 2 T5 or T8 to veg.
> 
> So back to the light rail mover. My plan is to grow 6 plants at a time....veg for 5 weeks and flower the remainder of the time. When I begin flowering I'll plant 6 more. If I overcome my fear of aircraft what do you think about 600w HPS on a mover with rachet system in the flower room? Augmenting with 250 CFL of both colors is easy. I could also use a heavy duty light mover and put 2 250w CFL on the mover instead, but it's not as effective.
> Any ideas?
> ...


adding 500w of cfl's will actually produce as much heat in your room as a 600w light. actually more if that 600w is air cooled and especially if it's exhausted out of the room.

light movers are not good as a primamry lighting source in flower. trying to cover twice the space with half the lighting is not the idea. light movers are made for supplemental and veg lighting. not flower.


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## Brother Numsi (May 4, 2012)

nuglets said:


> adding 500w of cfl's will actually produce as much heat in your room as a 600w light. actually more if that 600w is air cooled and especially if it's exhausted out of the room.
> 
> light movers are not good as a primamry lighting source in flower. trying to cover twice the space with half the lighting is not the idea. light movers are made for supplemental and veg lighting. not flower.


I appreciate your thoughts, but isn't heat, heat? If I remove the heat from the room and send it into the attic won't a heat signature show up there, too? Also, if a mover is used to cover a larger area with more light, how does a plant differentiate between a slow moving light during veg vs flower? I'm a newbie, but logical. Why isn't a moving light OK as a primary source during flowering? The mover is somewhat mimicking the movement of the Sun and if it does a cycle every 20 minutes the coverage is pretty good. I could always hang 2 400w lights on a mover or 2 600w lights, and yes, they'd be air-cooled. Also, I think the cops are also using devices to pick up the "hum" of the lights here.
Thanks again in advance.


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## nuglets (May 4, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> I appreciate your thoughts, but isn't heat, heat? If I remove the heat from the room and send it into the attic won't a heat signature show up there, too? Also, if a mover is used to cover a larger area with more light, how does a plant differentiate between a slow moving light during veg vs flower? I'm a newbie, but logical. Why isn't a moving light OK as a primary source during flowering? The mover is somewhat mimicking the movement of the Sun and if it does a cycle every 20 minutes the coverage is pretty good. I could always hang 2 400w lights on a mover or 2 600w lights, and yes, they'd be air-cooled. Also, I think the cops are also using devices to pick up the "hum" of the lights here.
> Thanks again in advance.


heat is heat. but air cooled reflectors are a lot easier to exhaust the heat from. the idea is to get the heat out of your room as quickly as possible before it dissipates. the longer it stays in your room the more your room cooling equipment has to work and the more electricity you use. i don't know where you live or why you are worried about your heat signature but even in the uk where they do flir flyovers i still think putting the exhaust from 1200w into your attic is little to nothing to be worried about.

vegging plants don't require as much light as flowering plants. especially if they are on a 24/0 cycle. when you have flowering plants on 12/12 they need as much light as possible during those 12 hours. having a light mover that only casts directly light on your plants half the time and then is on the other side of the grow the other half of the time will only lead to lower yields. the idea is to have direct light over your plants at all times in flower. if you had a mover for supplemental broader spectrum lighting that was in addition to direct lighting then yes that would be great. also, using a mover to move several lights in rotation so that the plants were always receiving direct light just from different angles would be great as well. using a light rail to make a 600w bulb cover an 8' length is just going to hurt your yield and density.


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## Brother Numsi (May 4, 2012)

Hi Nug,
I got this reply from a horticulturalist:
"
"You can actually grow with a light mover during vegetative and bloom grow cycles. The issue really is how much light do the plants want/need. If the plants are light loving they would do better under two 600w HPS lamps instead of one which is moving. Unless of course heat becomes and issue with multiple lights in which case you would need to vent the room and or run an AC to maintain optimum temperature and humidity. Generally however one 600w HPS lamp with cover a 6.5'x6.5' area and on a rail can cover the additional 6 ft length with sufficient light to grow almost anything. Only sun loving plants would really produce higher yields with the additional light. Hope this helps. Please let us know if we can assist with anything else."

I find that to be a bit non-commital on his part. Again we are looking at 6 plants and I am in my learning mode i.e. trying not to spend money needlessly.
I can always use a 1000w on a mover or 2 600w's not moving. I live in a rather warm climate from May to October. I suppose the heat in an attic may not be that noticeable. Any thoughts on the HPS hum?
Thanks.


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## nuglets (May 4, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Hi Nug,
> I got this reply from a horticulturalist:
> "
> "You can actually grow with a light mover during vegetative and bloom grow cycles. The issue really is how much light do the plants want/need. If the plants are light loving they would do better under two 600w HPS lamps instead of one which is moving. Unless of course heat becomes and issue with multiple lights in which case you would need to vent the room and or run an AC to maintain optimum temperature and humidity. Generally however one 600w HPS lamp with cover a 6.5'x6.5' area and on a rail can cover the additional 6 ft length with sufficient light to grow almost anything. Only sun loving plants would really produce higher yields with the additional light. Hope this helps. Please let us know if we can assist with anything else."
> ...


hey man, most of those guys aren't growing mj. i don't think you'll find too many growers that will tell you that a 600w light will cover 6.5' squared. not even close. it's more like 4' and that is even pushing it a little. there are a ton of light tests that have been done on the well known bulb companies and they all pretty much say that is the norm. you will get light out to 6.5' but what you are looking for is optimal footcandles which is between 5,000 and 10,000. that is the sweetspot for mj. i guess you could do 6.5' but you would need to rotate the plants from the outside to the inside everyday to make up for the diminished footcandles on the outside parameter of your light pattern. 

honestly bro i really don't see exhausting 2 1200w to your attic as being a problem. plenty of people actually heat their attics because they are in use or because it reduces heating needs during the winter. in the summer the added few degrees of exhausting those lights into the attic will be so minimal i really don't think it will eb a problem. exhausting the lights outside through a single port would be a much more conspicuos way to go as you would be exhausting a heat signature into the open air.

if you do a light mover you aren't going to get the same yield as consistent lighting. if you want to evenly distribute light over the plants then give them a 90 degree turn every other day. all a lightmover is going to do is reduce your yield because your plants will not be getting optimal lighting for the entire light cycle.

i've never heard of hps hum? lights don't hum, ballasts do as far as i know. i think if you insulate your room though this shouldn't be a problem. plus if you are running 2 600w ballasts inside of a house i can't see how the police can detect the hum. maybe via frequency meters. i'm not really sure though. if you are still concerned about heat maybe run a single ballast on a flip. half the crop for 12 hours and then the other half for 12 hours. you would only need 1 ballast and a flip box. or you could just do 2 ballast (flip boxes cost about 65% of a ballast). would cost a little more in construction, ducting, and an extra fan probably.


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## Brother Numsi (May 4, 2012)

nuglets said:


> heat is heat. but air cooled reflectors are a lot easier to exhaust the heat from. the idea is to get the heat out of your room as quickly as possible before it dissipates. the longer it stays in your room the more your room cooling equipment has to work and the more electricity you use. i don't know where you live or why you are worried about your heat signature but even in the uk where they do flir flyovers i still think putting the exhaust from 1200w into your attic is little to nothing to be worried about.


Nug,
What do you think of two of these?
http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/gavita-pro-600-se-complete-electronic-fixture-p-3820.html

Good or waste of funds? (No hum and need to find a lower price) Also, for veg, T5 or T8...leaning toward T8HO with CFL side lights. I'd likely use CFL on the sides with the HPS, too. Opinion?
Thanks.


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## nuglets (May 4, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Nug,
> What do you think of two of these?
> http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/gavita-pro-600-se-complete-electronic-fixture-p-3820.html
> 
> ...


those gavita ballasts are GREAT. the only problem i see is that they are not designed to be air cooled. so you will have to compensate for the extra heat in the room with your cooling system. intake/exhaust fans may not be enough and you may have to get an a/c unit. i think the ballasts on those actually run very cool as well but the heat is exhausted from them into the room too. check around or maybe call them cause i believe the recommend using special bulbs with their ballasts. not sure though, think it mught be a philips bulb. also, think the ballast only runs 240v. not sure if that is an issue for you.

if you can run a 240v line to your room then look at these(http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/lumatek-600w-240v-dimmable-dual-electronic-ballasts-p-2109.html). basically it's a dimmable dual ballast from lumatek. powers 2 bulbs for the price of 1 ballast basically. they only run on 240v though so you would need to bring a 240v outlet (nema-15r) into your room.

you won't need any side lights in veg. vegging plants don't benefit for supplemental lighting like flowering plants do. the whole reason for side lighting is because your overhead lighting does not have the penetration to reach the lower canopy. since you aren't growing 3-4' plants in veg you really don't need any side lighting. i would get a T5HO system and not a T8. T5's come in 2-16 bulbs fixtures. not sure how many plants you are doing but anything from 6-12 bulbs should be just fine. if anything, mix a little bloom spectrum in with your T5's. for example, if you have an 8 bulb fixture, use 5 veg spectrum bulbs and 3 bloom spectrum bulbs. one of these is what you want (http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/quantum-t5-badboy-grow-lights-c-321_952.html). they make cheaper models as well. Sun Blaze, Hydrofarm, etc... all are a little cheaper than the Quantum model. just make sure it is a 4' model and bulbs and not a 2' model.

if you are going to use supplemental CFL's in your flower room then they don't need to be high wattage. make them 40-75w bulbs. also, make them veg spectrum (6500k) as this will give you a broader spectrum in flower which means healthier plants and better yields.


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## Brother Numsi (May 4, 2012)

nuglets said:


> those gavita ballasts are GREAT. the only problem i see is that they are not designed to be air cooled. so you will have to compensate for the extra heat in the room with your cooling system. intake/exhaust fans may not be enough and you may have to get an a/c unit. i think the ballasts on those actually run very cool as well but the heat is exhausted from them into the room too. check around or maybe call them cause i believe the recommend using special bulbs with their ballasts. not sure though, think it mught be a philips bulb. also, think the ballast only runs 240v. not sure if that is an issue for you.
> 
> if you can run a 240v line to your room then look at these(http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/lumatek-600w-240v-dimmable-dual-electronic-ballasts-p-2109.html). basically it's a dimmable dual ballast from lumatek. powers 2 bulbs for the price of 1 ballast basically. they only run on 240v though so you would need to bring a 240v outlet (nema-15r) into your room.
> 
> ...



Nug,
I am fortunate that I have a very friendly electrician who will wire whatever is needed., so running a pair of 240v lines if needed is no problem. I see one is needed for that ballast and that's no problem as well as buying bulbs and reflectors. The guy can also do the fan/vent/duct work.

To answer your question it will be 6 plants with 5-6 weeks of veg I believe. Based on that I think we'd need two T5HO 8 bulb systems...6 plants under one to start and then use two when they grow up. I can do something similar for venting in the veg room simple to aid in circulation.

What's your opinion on CO2...needed or a waste? Whatever the electrician does will be mounted up high to keep all cords off the floor. We will use eye hooks and string to keep the girls stretching and straight. We'll be careful with climate control...nutrients will be an entirely different issue.

Anything else you can think of? You have been a great help. I am not going to choose wisely when it come what to grow since the grow times will differ a bit. It will probably be GrapeGod and Kali Mist, although I have other seeds I can use.
Thanks again.


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## Brother Numsi (May 4, 2012)

Nug,
Just doing research:
Need 2 of these..... http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/quantum-badboy-t5-4ft-lamp-grow-light-p-3353.html
Need 1 of these... http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/quantum-2900k-t5-fluorescent-grow-lamp-8pack-p-3516.html
Need 1 of these... http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/quantum-6500k-t5-fluorescent-grow-lamp-8pack-p-3518.html
Need 1 of these... http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/lumatek-600w-240v-dimmable-dual-electronic-ballasts-p-2109.html
Need 2 of these... http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/hydrofarm-da6ac-daystar-air-cool-reflector-p-2114.html
Need 1 of these... http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/orca-grow-film-54-50ft-roll-p-3714.html
Maybe need 1 of these...or duct tape... http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/orca-grow-film-seam-tape-3x75ft-p-3716.html

Just a preliminary list for a possible set up. I can actually be at their store later this month to pick it all up LOL The total is about $1,046 (without negotiating) to set up the lighting for both rooms. Wiring and climate control will be extra.


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## nuglets (May 4, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Nug,
> I am fortunate that I have a very friendly electrician who will wire whatever is needed., so running a pair of 240v lines if needed is no problem. I see one is needed for that ballast and that's no problem as well as buying bulbs and reflectors. The guy can also do the fan/vent/duct work.
> 
> To answer your question it will be 6 plants with 5-6 weeks of veg I believe. Based on that I think we'd need two T5HO 8 bulb systems...6 plants under one to start and then use two when they grow up. I can do something similar for venting in the veg room simple to aid in circulation.
> ...


you definitely won't need 2 T5's bro. that 8 lamp unit is 4' long and 2' wide. that is plenty for 6 plant. trust me. you are only vegging them for 5-6 weeks. that's a 3 gallon pot probably. 3 gallon pots are like 8" wide. you can fit 6 in a row under 4' of T5. if you are gonna be LST'ing them or any other type of training and expect them to be really bushy and short then i would get the 12 lamp one that Quantum makes. that will be more than enough and probably save you some money as well.

i would do a few grows first before adding Co2. it's only a 12v plug for the controller and/or generator so no need to worry about that. i always say when you can go a whole grow with no major plant issues then it's time to add Co2. for your plants to take advantage of increased Co2 levels (1100-1800ppm) then they need to be in peak condition. if not then you are just wasting it. get a crop or two under your belt and if all goes well and you have the nutes and system dialed in then get Co2. also, no need for Co2 in veg.


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## nuglets (May 4, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Nug,
> Just doing research:
> Need 2 of these..... http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/quantum-badboy-t5-4ft-lamp-grow-light-p-3353.html
> Need 1 of these... http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/quantum-2900k-t5-fluorescent-grow-lamp-8pack-p-3516.html
> ...


i'd get rid of the Orca film. that shit is a bitch to hang and really expensive. go to home depot or online and get a roll of duct insulation wrap. something like this (http://www.ecofoil.com/Applications/Residential-Insulation/R-8-HVAC-Duct-Wrap-Insulation). a lot easier to hang; cheaper; and better insulation than Orca. also will reduce your heat signature if you are worried about that. if you live in the U.S. you shouldn't be though.

what are you gonna do for bulbs? i recommend the hortilux eye super hps bulbs. little more expensive but they are top quality and have extra blue in the spectrum.

get a few digital thermometer/hygrometers that have probes. 1 for each room. you keep the probe on the plant canopy and the thermostat set to outdoor. that way you will know the temps on your plants at all times. they also have a high/low setting so when you are gone you can check when you get back to make sure temps weren't going wacky.

what about inline fans? i recommend CAN HO fans. the 6" one is great. plus CAN is one of the few companies that actually hit their rated CFM's. most inline fans advertise high CFM's but come nowhere close. also, use insulated ducting. will help reduce noise, odor leak, and heat leak as well.

let me know what you're gonna do about nutes. i can probably help.


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## Brother Numsi (May 4, 2012)

Not sure how I overlooked the bulbs...Digilux are about $180/pr....the Eye is more expensive...about $250/pr before any discounts....so both rooms for around $1,500 using a T5HO 8 or 12. Are you sure I can fit 6 plants under an 8 or 12?


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## nuglets (May 4, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Not sure how I overlooked the bulbs...Digilux are about $180/pr....the Eye is more expensive...about $250/pr before any discounts....so both rooms for around $1,500 using a T5HO 8 or 12. Are you sure I can fit 6 plants under an 8 or 12?


the Hortilux 600w bulbs shoudl run about $120 and the Digilux around $90. that is what Greners has them for. $180 and $250 must be a typo. i'm pretty sure you can fit 6 plants under and 8. positive you can fit them under a 12. how tall are you getting them before you flower them? what size pots will they be in when you put them to flower?


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## Brother Numsi (May 4, 2012)

nuglets said:


> the Hortilux 600w bulbs shoudl run about $120 and the Digilux around $90. that is what Greners has them for. $180 and $250 must be a typo. i'm pretty sure you can fit 6 plants under and 8. positive you can fit them under a 12. how tall are you getting them before you flower them? what size pots will they be in when you put them to flower?


Those aren't misprints, unfortunately. Hortilux is trying to force pricing up. They didn't want their products heavily discounted, so they have tried to establish a minimum adv price. I'll bet face to face in a store it's a different story. The $180 or $250 was for a pair.

My best guess on height before flowering would be 1 to 1 1/4 meters or about 3 to 4 feet high after topping. What's realistic?
I have a friend who uses 5 gallon pots and doesn't veg as long as I plan to do...and his plants are rootbound. I thought 7 gallon pots would do. His potency generally suffers, too....except for the last Kali Mist which was killer!! I know 7's can be cumbersome. I figured I'd transplant at 2 weeks or so. +rep for all the knowledge. Time for sleep. Catch you tomorrow.
Thanks.


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## nuglets (May 4, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Those aren't misprints, unfortunately. Hortilux is trying to force pricing up. They didn't want their products heavily discounted, so they have tried to establish a minimum adv price. I'll bet face to face in a store it's a different story. The $180 or $250 was for a pair.
> 
> My best guess on height before flowering would be 1 to 1 1/4 meters or about 3 to 4 feet high after topping. What's realistic?
> I have a friend who uses 5 gallon pots and doesn't veg as long as I plan to do...and his plants are rootbound. I thought 7 gallon pots would do. His potency generally suffers, too....except for the last Kali Mist which was killer!! I know 7's can be cumbersome. I figured I'd transplant at 2 weeks or so. +rep for all the knowledge. Time for sleep. Catch you tomorrow.
> Thanks.


that sounds about right for hortilux and digilux. i've never used digilux before but i have seen gains using the hortilux super hps and the added blue spectrum in the bulb. i say it's worth it if you have the extra cash.

bro, you're growing some MONSTERS. if they are 4' tall when you put them to flower you had better rethink some strategies here. first off, i don't think a 7 gallon pot will be big enough. might wanna go 11 gallon. your plants will get to 8-9' tall pretty easily. maybe taller. you are gonna need more than 1200w to cover 6 plants that big. more like 2400-3000w. you'll definitely need better lighting than T5's to veg them to that size as well. probably 2 400w MH bulbs or a 1000w. you might wanna rethink how big you are growing them. you'd need a lot more juice, cooling, lighting, etc...


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## Trulife69 (May 5, 2012)

yo nuglets, I have always wondered about using different colored spectrums of light in veg and flower. I have a 4' 6400K T5 for veg..would it be beneficial to use another light like red or hows that work. And for flower I have 2 cheap 1000w hps lights I got from ebay but would a added blue spectrum light be worth it as well? Just curious how those added extra light spectrums work and what is best


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## nuglets (May 5, 2012)

Trulife69 said:


> yo nuglets, I have always wondered about using different colored spectrums of light in veg and flower. I have a 4' 6400K T5 for veg..would it be beneficial to use another light like red or hows that work. And for flower I have 2 cheap 1000w hps lights I got from ebay but would a added blue spectrum light be worth it as well? Just curious how those added extra light spectrums work and what is best


what up true. hope things are working out for you. 

in veg it really won't make that big a difference. it does help a little though. if you had only 1 bulb then stick with the 6500k. i have an 8 bulb T5 and 3 of them are bloom spectrum. mixing the spectrum up promotes tighter spacing and slightly quicker growth i think.

in flower it's a big bonus though. having a mixed spectrum really improves results on bud density and yield. usually the ratio is 2 or 3 to 1 depending on who you ask. adding some grow spectrum cfl's would really help. hang them near the canopy on your plants and you will see a difference in the density.


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## Trulife69 (May 5, 2012)

I have a 4' 6 bulb but just using the lights that came with it. I was thinking of getting some new tubes for it but was sure if I could mix and match or what to mix into that t-5 for veg. What t5 bulbs you buy to replace yours? Or whats a good setup thats better than the bulbs that came with it. 
later nuglets


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## nuglets (May 5, 2012)

Trulife69 said:


> I have a 4' 6 bulb but just using the lights that came with it. I was thinking of getting some new tubes for it but was sure if I could mix and match or what to mix into that t-5 for veg. What t5 bulbs you buy to replace yours? Or whats a good setup thats better than the bulbs that came with it.
> later nuglets


any of the T5 bulbs are fine. most places sell the spectralux and quantum bulbs. both the same. i would get 4 6500k bulbs and 2 2700k bulbs. place them in this order 626626. that would be the best mixed veg spectrum i think.


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## Brother Numsi (May 5, 2012)

Glad to see this site is back up and the bills are paid LOL


nuglets said:


> that sounds about right for hortilux and digilux. i've never used digilux before but i have seen gains using the hortilux super hps and the added blue spectrum in the bulb. i say it's worth it if you have the extra cash.
> 
> bro, you're growing some MONSTERS. if they are 4' tall when you put them to flower you had better rethink some strategies here. first off, i don't think a 7 gallon pot will be big enough. might wanna go 11 gallon. your plants will get to 8-9' tall pretty easily. maybe taller. you are gonna need more than 1200w to cover 6 plants that big. more like


Actually I wanted to max out at 6-6 1/2 feet in height. We have the space and the time. I suppose the only cost difference in using MH to veg would be the bulbs. The only problem is when I move the plants from the veg room to the flower room the lights and fixtures would have to move, too unless I stepped up and used 4 bulbs and fixtures and twice the ventilation. I have the money, but not sure I want to do that...too much buyers remorse if I did....maybe down the road when the initial investment gets paid back.

So a T5HO 8 or 12 is what we'll do to start for veg. How tall do you think I should go in veg using that set up? Also, what do you think of buying 2 Quantum 4 bulb (unless I can find a cheap 2 bulb FL set up which would be a lot less expensive) connected back to back and suspend them between the plants in the flowering room to give the plants additional veg light? Just a thought. At 6 feet you think I need 10 gallon pots? Maybe I am over-reaching here.
Thanks!


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## nuglets (May 5, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Glad to see this site is back up and the bills are paid LOL
> 
> 
> Actually I wanted to max out at 6-6 1/2 feet in height. We have the space and the time. I suppose the only cost difference in using MH to veg would be the bulbs. The only problem is when I move the plants from the veg room to the flower room the lights and fixtures would have to move, too unless I stepped up and used 4 bulbs and fixtures and twice the ventilation. I have the money, but not sure I want to do that...too much buyers remorse if I did....maybe down the road when the initial investment gets paid back.
> ...


if you want your plants to be 6' tall then veg them to 2-3' max. they will double to triple in size depending on the strain. If you are gonna keep them at 6' in flower then i think 7 gallon pots would be fine. I thought you were going like 8-9' cause you said you were vegging them to 4'. Anything over 18" in veg and you should have MH lighting on them. considering they are gonna be in 7 gallon pots by the end of veg i would say you are probably gonna need both those 600w bulbs to illuminate the vegging plants.

go with the T5 8 lamp. that will be plenty for 6 plants in say 3 gallon pots. then when you transfer to the bigger pots at say 12-16" tall you can put them under the MH lights. If you want to keep the plants under the T5's then don't go any taller than 18" in veg. they will get to about 4' in flower that way. any taller under those T5's and you might run into some issues.

you could get 4 lights and fixtures or you could just get 2 ballasts and 4 fixtures and that way you only have to change the ballasts over. plus, the first 2 weeks of flower you should keep them on MH lighting anyway. that's what i do. they are still in a vegetative state and benefit more from MH lighting those first 2 weeks than they will from HPS.

i think getting T5's for flower is a waste of your money. if you really wanna spend the money for supplemental lighting on 6 plants then go for it but you don't need it. if anything get yourself some 400w ballasts and hang some 400w CMH bulbs or the Hortilux Eye Blue MH bulbs. those are full spectrum bulbs that give off little heat. or hang CFL'. putting some T5's around the outside isn't gonna do anthing.


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## cindysid (May 5, 2012)

phxrocks said:


> Did some improvements to my room. 12' x 14' x 8' sealed. 6 1000 phantoms over 2 x 18 site 3 gallon bucket systems. The dual zone mini split and Co2 are the recent upgrades. Hoods do not have air moving through them anymore. Temp hasn't been over 81F since I dimmed the ballasts to 750.
> 3 strains on day 28 of flower.
> View attachment 2150515View attachment 2150516View attachment 2150517View attachment 2150518View attachment 2150519


Such a sweet setup! I only have and 8x10x7 space, but I would love to have a similar setup on smaller scale.


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## kamie (May 5, 2012)

my local store sells the 1k eye hortilux and ushios for $61.. those online prices are expensive


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## nuglets (May 5, 2012)

kamie said:


> my local store sells the 1k eye hortilux and ushios for $61.. those online prices are expensive


if your local store has 1k hortilux bulbs for $61 i'll take 50. seriously. send me a link to their website or gimme their number.


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## Brother Numsi (May 5, 2012)

nuglets said:


> putting some T5's around the outside isn't gonna do anthing.


Actually it was hanging down the center of 2 rows of 3 plants....back to back...just thinking outside the box. If the Lum digital is OK with MH and HPS I can do that easily enough.
When I transplant I was going from a starter right to 7 gal...not a good idea?
Thanks.


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## nuglets (May 5, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Actually it was hanging down the center of 2 rows of 3 plants....back to back...just thinking outside the box. If the Lum digital is OK with MH and HPS I can do that easily enough.
> When I transplant I was going from a starter right to 7 gal...not a good idea?
> Thanks.


i wouldn't go straight to a 7 gallon pot. stunts the growth and messes your feeding up. go to 1 gallon, then 3 gallon, then 7 gallon a week before flower. you could even do 5 gallon instead of 7. i have some plants i lst'd the shit out of in 5 gallon pots for 10 weeks and they are fine.

if you got to a huge pot like a 7 gallon one right off the bat then you'll basically water them once a month which is not a good thing. you want mj to have a dry cycle. plus, your plant will spend to much energy trying to fill the pot up with roots. not recommended. size up over the course of veg.


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## Brother Numsi (May 5, 2012)

Hmmm, too much transplanting unless I have no choice. This is in a small way "commercial" so I expect some work is involved (Hell, I'm retired and going to be 64 LOL) so I can reinvest in more equipment. I don't see growing more than 8 plants in any cycle. How do people get away with 1 transplant?
Oh, BTW a 600w Eye seems to be about $110 unless you buy 6, then it's about $94.... http://goldcoasthydro.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/bulbs.html
Thanks!


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## Brother Numsi (May 5, 2012)

My $1,500 lighting budget is going to be exceeded LOL. As far as MH with the Lumatek ballast there are a few differences in the bulbs in the 600w category; HiLux, SolarMax, and Sunpulse...any preferences?

I may need a different reflector since this takes a 400 or 1000 bulb.... 
[h=1]Hydrofarm DA6AC Daystar 6" Air Cool reflector[/h][h=1][/h]


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## nuglets (May 5, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Hmmm, too much transplanting unless I have no choice. This is in a small way "commercial" so I expect some work is involved (Hell, I'm retired and going to be 64 LOL) so I can reinvest in more equipment. I don't see growing more than 8 plants in any cycle. How do people get away with 1 transplant?
> Oh, BTW a 600w Eye seems to be about $110 unless you buy 6, then it's about $94.... http://goldcoasthydro.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/bulbs.html
> Thanks!


a lotta people only do 1 transplant but they aren't trying to grow plants 6' tall and they aren't in 5 or 7 gallon pots. i use 5 gallon pots and i transplant twice. it's not like you are hurting the plants. a drop or two of superthrive in the water with light nutes and you might stunt them for a day or two. you stick an 8-12" plant in a 7 gallon pot and you are gonna run into some serious problems at some point. root rot, under fertilized, stunted growth, etc...

seems like a fair price. once you have your list together most hydro places will give you a 10% discount on the entire order.


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## nuglets (May 5, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> My $1,500 lighting budget is going to be exceeded LOL. As far as MH with the Lumatek ballast there are a few differences in the bulbs in the 600w category; HiLux, SolarMax, and Sunpulse...any preferences?
> 
> I may need a different reflector since this takes a 400 or 1000 bulb....
> *Hydrofarm DA6AC Daystar 6" Air Cool reflector*


HiLux are Ushio. never used them but some people seem to like them. 600w MH i use Digilux or Sunmaster Cool Deluxe. either one of those is great in my opinion.

make sure your ballast and reflector have the same lamp plugs. there are 2 types; common and hydrofarm (http://www.greners.com/expertadvice/ballast-reflector-compatibility.html). Lumatek makes ballasts with both. so find the reflector you want and then get the Lumatek's with that plug. that reflector will take a 600w bulb. all grow reflectors are the same. they'll take 400-1000w bulbs. it's all the same mogul socket.


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## Trulife69 (May 5, 2012)

I am running that portable a/c and the way its setup now it blows cold air across the canopy of the plants under the lights set on 65deg. I saw a few pictures of plants that were exhibiting that yellowing of younger leaves like mine due to the room being to cold. At plant height I am 72-75 but was wondering if the position of the a/c would be better not blowing directly over the tops of the girls and better just circulating the room.


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## nuglets (May 5, 2012)

Trulife69 said:


> I am running that portable a/c and the way its setup now it blows cold air across the canopy of the plants under the lights set on 65deg. I saw a few pictures of plants that were exhibiting that yellowing of younger leaves like mine due to the room being to cold. At plant height I am 72-75 but was wondering if the position of the a/c would be better not blowing directly over the tops of the girls and better just circulating the room.


that's definitely not the problem man. 72-75 at canopy level and 65 degree air being blown on them will have no negative effects at all. that canopy temp is perfect.


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## nuglets (May 5, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Actually it was hanging down the center of 2 rows of 3 plants....back to back...just thinking outside the box. If the Lum digital is OK with MH and HPS I can do that easily enough.
> When I transplant I was going from a starter right to 7 gal...not a good idea?
> Thanks.


here a thread on it...(*https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/525917-why-not-plant-straight-into.html*)


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## Brother Numsi (May 5, 2012)

nuglets said:


> here a thread on it...(*https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/525917-why-not-plant-straight-into.html*)


 Makes sense. My friend goes from small pot to 5 gal. I can transplant with a little effort 
If MH produce little heat then I might do 2 in the veg room instead of FL9Additional ventilation??)...will that work OK or do I need less light and better spectrum? It sounds like I may need MH in the flowering room all the time...true or just at the beginning of flowering? May be repeating myself...getting tired. LOL
Thanks!


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## nuglets (May 5, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Makes sense. My friend goes from small pot to 5 gal. I can transplant with a little effort
> If MH produce little heat then I might do 2 in the veg room instead of FL9Additional ventilation??)...will that work OK or do I need less light and better spectrum? It sounds like I may need MH in the flowering room all the time...true or just at the beginning of flowering? May be repeating myself...getting tired. LOL
> Thanks!


i was saying that the new CMH (Ceramic Metal Hallide) bulbs produce very little heat. they only come in 400w and require magnetic ballasts to run. Great for veg or supplemental lighting. Kind of a pain cause they require magnetic ballasts. MH bulb make just as much heat as HPS ones. MH is also good for the first 2 weeks of flower. then you switch the bulbs out for HPS ones.


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## Brother Numsi (May 5, 2012)

Do you know anything about this company...claims electronic ballast for 400w MH:
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewitem.aspx?idproduct=CV1511&child=CV1515&gclid=CO2FkK3Z6q8CFQLktgodQgQwCg

Would you recommend 2 MH in the veg room? It sounds like 2 footers , maybe 3 footers in the veg room maz. Guess I'll need exhaust there, too. Are you saying I can't change bulbs in the flowering room using the dual 600w Lumatek...start with MH then switch to HPS...I got confused, sorry.
Thanks,


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## nuglets (May 5, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Do you know anything about this company...claims electronic ballast for 400w MH:
> http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewitem.aspx?idproduct=CV1511&child=CV1515&gclid=CO2FkK3Z6q8CFQLktgodQgQwCg
> 
> Would you recommend 2 MH in the veg room? It sounds like 2 footers , maybe 3 footers in the veg room maz. Guess I'll need exhaust there, too. Are you saying I can't change bulbs in the flowering room using the dual 600w Lumatek...start with MH then switch to HPS...I got confused, sorry.
> Thanks,


not sure what you need a 400w ballast for. if you are looking for something for a CMH bulb then you need a magnetic ballast, not electronic.

i would recommend MH bulbs for the veg room but I think you'll be able to get my with just 1 of them. if your plants are 2-3; tall then they'll only need about 1-1.25 sq.ft. of space. all of that can easily fit under a 600w or even better 1000w MH light. totally up to you. 

with those Lumatek ballasts you can run both MH and HPS bulbs. just go in and change the bulb after 2 weeks.


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## Bsw9090 (May 6, 2012)

Hi, I just need some general help setting up a grow room..

What I will be having is 4 of DrGreenFingers 2x4 aeroponic sets in the beginning, so a total of 4x8 ft light coverage, and I'm wanting to look at different light setups, and also debating on what sort of light setup for my mother plant. 

Really what I'm looking for is help with choosing lights for both the cloning setup.. as well as the mother room. In total there will be 128 clones and I was thinking of getting a T5 light from lowes with 8 4 foot long cfls (I believe) and then a T5 light as well for the mother. 

I plan for this just to be temporary, until I have the funds to invest more into the grow room and design and thinking on later having 3 600 watt HPS with about 8 to 12 of the aeroponic setups... 

Please tell me if I'm thinking incorrectly, or if I should change, but the 8 light T5 setup is going to have to suffice for the time being, until I do get the funds together though...


I'd like to say thanks for the help beforehand,
Brad


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## hellraizer30 (May 6, 2012)

Skip geting the hid systems and look into a t5 light setups but not from lowes get the x8 bulb 4ft long setups from hydrofarms
or cap. There 400watts and kick ass as veg/cloning light systems


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## Bsw9090 (May 6, 2012)

Thats what I was thinking, was the t5 x8 4FT light.. but do you think a t5 x4 4ft light would suffice for the time being? Or do you think I should just go ahead and invest in the t5 x8 light? (I'm unsure of the differences of the prices right now..)

Now for the mother plant, do you think a T5 2 FT x4 light setup would be fine? I think I'll only have about 3 different mothers, also this raises a question, for 128 clones, how many mothers do you think I should have? Dependent on that answer, which sort of t5 light setup would you think would be the best setup (again going for cheaper, but want it to be efficient..)

Thanks hellraizer for your input already!
Brad


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## nuglets (May 6, 2012)

Bsw9090 said:


> Hi, I just need some general help setting up a grow room..
> 
> What I will be having is 4 of DrGreenFingers 2x4 aeroponic sets in the beginning, so a total of 4x8 ft light coverage, and I'm wanting to look at different light setups, and also debating on what sort of light setup for my mother plant.
> 
> ...


to cover the 4 aeroponic systems you should get 2 600w lights or 2 1000w lights. 600w lights would be fine, 1000w lights would be optimal.

128 clones is a ton. i can fit about 30 comfortably in one 10x20 cut tray. so 4 trays would be 20x40 which is an 8 lamp T5. mix the spectum up on the bulbs too. 5 grow and 3 bloom bulbs. or 6 and 2. more balanced spectrum.

if you are just taking cuttings every 2 months or a perpetual with 64 a month you are gonna need 6 moms in my opinion. you could probably get away with 4 but that would be a lot of stress on them and you might now be getting the best cuttings after about 20-25. 6 moms at 2x2 for each one is a 6x4 space to cover. you could do it much more efficiently with MH lights. 2 400w MH lights would be idea. if power and money are an issue then you are gonna need 3 8 lamp T5 setups or 2 12 lamp setups. Quantum makes a 12 lamp setup.


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## Brother Numsi (May 6, 2012)

Nug,
I guess this will come down to two things: whether or not my friend wants to use his house to do this and how much the electric bill will jump. I'm ready to do this and I can't at my house 
It looks like 1 1,000 w MH in the veg room and 2 600w HPS in the flowering room. We haven't talked much about fans yet. I noticed there are two openings on the reflectors. (one on each side) Do you attach one 6" HO fan to both reflectors and pull the air thru and vent into the attic and another to vent the room? Same in the veg room? I know that if a ceiling fan runs 24/7 here it adds a bit over $7/mo to the electric bill. Can't wait to get thru this stuff and onto nutes.

Oh, this is a pretty basic primer on a grow room, but not badly done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4odpIVLNro about 10 minutes

Full length version a bit over an hour:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dECnYjf5ABQ&feature=related

Thanks!


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## nuglets (May 6, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Nug,
> I guess this will come down to two things: whether or not my friend wants to use his house to do this and how much the electric bill will jump. I'm ready to do this and I can't at my house
> It looks like 1 1,000 w MH in the veg room and 2 600w HPS in the flowering room. We haven't talked much about fans yet. I noticed there are two openings on the reflectors. (one on each side) Do you attach one 6" HO fan to both reflectors and pull the air thru and vent into the attic and another to vent the room? Same in the veg room? I know that if a ceiling fan runs 24/7 here it adds a bit over $7/mo to the electric bill. Can't wait to get thru this stuff and onto nutes.
> 
> ...


hey bud, compared to all this nutes are gonna be easy and cheap. i've got a good formula for you that is fool proof.

with the fans, you will need 1 for each room. you can use 1 for both 600w lights in your flower room. the 2 holes on each hood are to pull air in and exhaust it out. how are you setting up your air cooling? are you going to take air from outside of the room and cool the lights with it? or are you taking air from inside of the room and using it to cool the lights? their are advantages and disadvantages to both. let me know and i can better explain how to set it up.


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## Brother Numsi (May 6, 2012)

Nug,
These "rooms" are unfinished large walk-in areas on either side of a bedroom over a garage. I just sent him an email to get the dimensions. I am also thinking of constructing "movable walls" using wood and reflective material so that the flowering area can be closed in, yet by having the walls movable, give us access to the plants. Still have to figure out the best way to protect the floor, but that should be easy enough.

As I see it the air would have to come from within the room...or the attic as to make an entire air loop...may be pretty warm up there to begin with except in the cooler months. I don't see how to bring it in from the bedroom other than put a hole in the wall.

Just checked out your journal...WOW what a great set up from the get-go!! I can't see doing anything like that unless they completely decriminalize it. I live in a more backward state 
I'll be happy with a 6 plant rotation 

Just as an aside my friend is measuring as we speak. He went over to another friend's yesterday and did some soldering on a board and sampled some bubble hash we made Thursday. This was his response, "[FONT=trebuchet ms,sans-serif]BTW I left with a small sample of the frozen hands product. Extremely potent...[/FONT]" LOL

Thanks!


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## nuglets (May 6, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Nug,
> I guess this will come down to two things: whether or not my friend wants to use his house to do this and how much the electric bill will jump. I'm ready to do this and I can't at my house
> It looks like 1 1,000 w MH in the veg room and 2 600w HPS in the flowering room. We haven't talked much about fans yet. I noticed there are two openings on the reflectors. (one on each side) Do you attach one 6" HO fan to both reflectors and pull the air thru and vent into the attic and another to vent the room? Same in the veg room? I know that if a ceiling fan runs 24/7 here it adds a bit over $7/mo to the electric bill. Can't wait to get thru this stuff and onto nutes.
> 
> ...


i don't watch those videos anymore. they are pointless in my book. they have great beginner knowledge but a lot of the stuff their is really broad. it's like a 20 page cliff notes to the book atlas shrugged. i mean can you really summarize a 2000 page book in 20 pages?

figuring out what your electric bill is gonna be is really simple. most everything in your grow rooms will have a listed watts consumption. all you need to know is the watts of everything drawing power; the time that each piece of equipment will be running; and the per kilowatt hour charge from your electric company (it's on the electric bill). here's an example based on the national average of $0.16 per kilowatt hour.

1 1000w light running 24 hours a day is 720kWh per month
2 600w lights running 12 hours a day is 432kWh per month
1 CAN 6" HO fan uses 138w. So running 24 hours a day that is 100kWh per month
1 CAN 6" HO running 12 hours a day is 50kWh per month

so the total there is 1,302kWh a month. multiplied by $0.16 equals $208 a month. you will have other things like timers and stuff but they won't add much really. some of that time you will be running the T5's and not the 1000w so that will cut that consumption in half as the T5 uses 54w bulbs so 8 of them is 432w or 311kWh per month. so if you veg for 1 month under T5's and another month under MH then it will be about $50 cheaper on your bill for the month you run T5's. 

if you add anything like motor loads (a/c units, dehumidifiers) then that will add to your bill sometimes significantly. they are hard to judge cause they aren't always running and when they are in standby mode or the condensor isn't working they really don't draw any power.

you can offset these costs by becomming more energy efficient. put the refrigerator on a timer to shut off at night and then come on for 10 minutes every few hours during the day. that's all you need. become vigilant at unplugging appliances and electronics you aren't using. turn computers off. put your hot water heater on a timer. shut off the a/c when you leave the house.


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## nuglets (May 6, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Nug,
> These "rooms" are unfinished large walk-in areas on either side of a bedroom over a garage. I just sent him an email to get the dimensions. I am also thinking of constructing "movable walls" using wood and reflective material so that the flowering area can be closed in, yet by having the walls movable, give us access to the plants. Still have to figure out the best way to protect the floor, but that should be easy enough.
> 
> As I see it the air would have to come from within the room...or the attic as to make an entire air loop...may be pretty warm up there to begin with except in the cooler months. I don't see how to bring it in from the bedroom other than put a hole in the wall.
> Thanks!


if you are building rooms inside of rooms then you could pull the air from the larger room that you are building in and exhaust it to the attic. or you can pull it from inside of the grow rooms and exhaust it into the attic. i would pull the air from inside of the room. will actually save you a little money on equipment. in the veg room you leave one end of the light open and attach the other to the fan. exhaust the air into the attic. in the flower room you attach a carbon filter to one end of a hood with ducting (shortest distance possible to avoid cfm loss). then you connect the hoods and the fan with ducting. that way you are pulling air through the carbon filter and into your lights before exhausting it. this will help you avoid any odor creeping into the house. think about getting a filter sheet or one of those hep filter for the veg room light. always helps to have something so that dust and bugs don't get in your hoods. that way you won't have to clean them and the glass as often.

for the rooms just frame them out of1x2's or 2x4's. then use drywall or plywood so that you have a solid surface to hang things on. this will also help a ton with insulation and sound proofing. they sell rools of duct insulation wrap at all of the hardware stores. usually it's 4' wide and comes in 25', 50', 100' lengths. it's great insulation and reflective material for a grow.

for the floor i would just frame out a floating floor with 1x1's or 2x2's and then lay plywood on top of it. if you want you can cover the plywood with linoleum. not necessary but will help prevent any water damage from spills getting through.


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## Brother Numsi (May 6, 2012)

nuglets said:


> for the rooms just frame them out of 1x2's or 2x4's. then use drywall or plywood so that you have a solid surface to hang things on. this will also help a ton with insulation and sound proofing. they sell rools of duct insulation wrap at all of the hardware stores. usually it's 4' wide and comes in 25', 50', 100' lengths. it's great insulation and reflective material for a grow.
> 
> for the floor i would just frame out a floating floor with 1x1's or 2x2's and then lay plywood on top of it. if you want you can cover the plywood with linoleum. not necessary but will help prevent any water damage from spills getting through.


Nug,
Too much work LOL. I was thinking 1x2 (2) 5 feet high frames and long enough to span 3 plants (2 rows of 3) and staple the reflective material to the frame for the long sides and do something similar (2) for the short sides.. The bottom of the frame would have "feet" so we can simply move the "walls" aside to get at the plants and provide an effective bounce back for light.

I just got back from another friend's (who I don't want to tell what I am doing) and he has 2 1,000w HPS and 2 600w MH over his 8 flowering plants. He also has a portable A/C unit, but no fan duct work on his lights..._pretty damn hot in there and a high electric bill. _He said he'd like to drop some big FL down amongst his plants. 
He uses 3 T5 set ups in the veg room trying to harvest every 2-3 weeks. _I don't want to do that much work_...that's why I chose a 6 plant rotation with the fan system and one 1,000w MH only. I can add FL if needed.

I'll have to check his charge /KWh...a $200 increase in his bill would be quite noticeable!!

What do you think of something like this or do you have a better idea?
https://rasahydroponics.com/cloning-seed-starting/heat-mats/windowsill-heat-mat
Thanks!


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## nuglets (May 6, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Nug,
> Too much work LOL. I was thinking 1x2 (2) 5 feet high frames and long enough to span 3 plants (2 rows of 3) and staple the reflective material to the frame for the long sides and do something similar (2) for the short sides.. The bottom of the frame would have "feet" so we can simply move the "walls" aside to get at the plants and provide an effective bounce back for light.
> 
> I just got back from another friend's (who I don't want to tell what I am doing) and he has 2 1,000w HPS and 2 600w MH over his 8 flowering plants. He also has a portable A/C unit, but no fan duct work on his lights..._pretty damn hot in there and a high electric bill. _He said he'd like to drop some big FL down amongst his plants.
> ...


hey man, thanks for stopping by the journal. glad you liked it. actually, using chillers is way cool an much more efficient. especially in backward legal states. no in or out vents and less electrical draw. more up front costs though.

you might need to go a little taller with the framing. at 5' tall the glass on your hoods will be at 4'. then you have the floor and the pots which is another 18" then you need to keep your plants about 12" from the glass. that would only leave you about 18" to grow plants in flower. don't think you are going that route. lol

why not just put a door in the room? you can frame them out and just stick a cheap $30 door in. be a lot easier than having to move a whole wall all the time. plus what if you find you want to hang something on that wall?

unless your friends plants are MONSTERS he's just wasting light. so many guys think that more light is better, usually it is but at some point it actually just hurts your plants by creating too much heat and too many footcandles. 3200w for 8 plants is insane. even with big ass bushy 6' plants you can easily fit 4 under a 1000w light. i understand eveyone is chasing the perfect mix of spectrum and tons of light but it's just not worth it man. you will create so much heat that you won't be able to cool it efficiently. plus you'll end up frying your plants and getting shitty yields from the heat in the room.

not sure where you are doing this grow but a $200 increase on a residential utility bill really isn't that much. a lot of things can actually do that to your bill.

they make 10x20 heat mats. all of the hydro stores have them. 3x20 seems like a waste. you'd need 3 of them to cover a 10x20 propogation tray. i don't know.


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## Brother Numsi (May 6, 2012)

Nug,
Yep he's insane and refuses to take advice. His potency is usually lower than expected, at least for my taste. The last two he grew were Critical+ and Kali Mist both of which were quite good! He's kinda like the Emperor's New Clothes LOL and yes, he's convinced more is better. He has a long string of failures like White Rhino, a strain of Northern Lights, NY Special, and Super Lemon Haze, Blueberry, and Tangerine Dream...all of which he refused to acknowledge as poor, yet his sales fell way off.

Maybe I don't understand the germination mat. I figured it was like a little heating pad for 6 seeds to germinate. I saw one that was 3"X17" that I thought would work. I thought his was about 6 inches square...I'll have to take a closer look.

Before I do anything I'll draw the set-up to see exactly what works. *Both rooms have a full size door that enters from the bedroom. *I figured when the veg light was on we could leave that door open...maybe the same with the flowering room so the draw would come from a larger open area. I'll take some pix this week and post them up.

I was also wondering about temperature control. Since I don't think there are A/C vents in those rooms I thought maybe a wall thermostat in the bedroom with the temp measuring device going thru the wall into the rooms. (requires 2) The electrician can rig something to start the fans based on temperature as well as a timer for the fans. Again, thinking without know LOL.

So I think we have the veg room figured out:
1,000w MH (Hortilux or equivalent?) with air-cooled reflector (carbon filter on open end of reflector) and magnetic ballast running 18/6 with 6" HO fan vented into the attic along with some sort of climate control and timer and maybe my movable wall contraption LOL..

Flowering room:
Lumatek dual electronic ballast with 2 air-cooled hoods and 2 400w MH for 2 more weeks (probably Hortilux) running 12/12, then switching to 2 600w HPS (Hortilux) with 6" HO fan sucking air from both reflectors...carbon filter on open end of one reflector...can those filters withstand the heat??? and venting into the attic. Reflective contraption to be used there, too.

Other fans to be used in both rooms for circulation and plant movement.

Is that it so far...except for fine tuning the climate control? My movable walls can't weigh more than a few pounds each and very easy to slide around. They may be 1X1's and the material stapled to the frame. For raising and lowering the lights I figured some sort of Yo-Yo system would work nicely or I can go a cheaper route.
Thanks!


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## nuglets (May 6, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Nug,
> Yep he's insane and refuses to take advice. His potency is usually lower than expected, at least for my taste. The last two he grew were Critical+ and Kali Mist both of which were quite good! He's kinda like the Emperor's New Clothes LOL and yes, he's convinced more is better. He has a long string of failures like White Rhino, a strain of Northern Lights, NY Special, and Super Lemon Haze, Blueberry, and Tangerine Dream...all of which he refused to acknowledge as poor, yet his sales fell way off.
> 
> Maybe I don't understand the germination mat. I figured it was like a little heating pad for 6 seeds to germinate. I saw one that was 3"X17" that I thought would work. I thought his was about 6 inches square...I'll have to take a closer look.
> ...


you want something like one of these with a controller. if you just plug them in they get too hot. i keep mine set on 85. http://www.greners.com/i/seed-starting-and-cloning/heat-mats.html but now that you mention seed and no mother then i realize you don't need the heat mat or humidity dome. may be good to get if you plan on having a mother plant later on but seedlings don't need heat mats or humidity domes. can actually be detrimental for seedlings. domes and mats are for clones as they have no roots heat and you are trying to promote root development and keep the air humid so they can absorb water through their leaves. really kinda pointless with seeds. they have taproots and absorb moisture that way. also, since they have a root; keeping the soil/rockwool warm is pointless.

what you want is a thermostat controller. something like this http://www.greners.com/cap-tmp-dne-digital-cooling-thermostat.html use that for your intake fans and leave your exhaust fans running all the time. that will create negative pressure in the rooms which will bring cool air in through the crack and help avoid odor leaking out. for the fans that are hooked up to the lights you just put them on the same timer as the lights. there are more complicated setups that will control all your fans but it't not worth it in your case. they can get real expensive.

no carbon filter needed in the veg room. vegging plants aren't priducing resin like flowering plants and really don't produce any odor. get an electronic ballast. magentic ballast create a ton of problems. Lumatek, Quantum, etc... are all electronic ballasts. Magnetic ballasts can also only run 1 type of bulb; either HPS or MH. to save money just get the CAN 6" fan. no need for high output if you are only clearing 1 hood. more than enough CFM with just the regular output model.

flower room looks good. if your filter is on the end the only air passing through it will be air from the room which shouldn't be hotter than 80 degrees. i think the filters are rated for over 100 degrees. when you get the dual ballast make sure it is the dimmable version. you don't want to run 400w bulbs on 600w setting. the dimmable version will have a 400w setting. also, don't use the SL (Super Lumens) setting on those ballasts. will only cause your bulb to burn out quicker.

yo yo's or hooks and daisy chains work fine. remember when you are setting up your ducting to set your lights low in the room so you give yourself some extra ducting to work with when you are raising and lowering the lights.


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## Brother Numsi (May 6, 2012)

Yeah, my bad. The 400w MH take magnetic ballasts...the 1,000w MH are OK with electronic ballasts...I'm learning. Yes it's would be the dual/dimmable Lumatek. The digital day/night thermostat is cool!
I don't see any intake fans on my list, just exhaust. Is that correct?
Thanks.


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## nuglets (May 6, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Yeah, my bad. The 400w MH take magnetic ballasts...the 1,000w MH are OK with electronic ballasts...I'm learning. Yes it's would be the dual/dimmable Lumatek. The digital day/night thermostat is cool!
> I don't see any intake fans on my list, just exhaust. Is that correct?
> Thanks.


you are going to have to bring cool air into the rooms somehow. you aren't running an a/c in there so you will need cool air. with that much wattage passive intakes might not work; actually probably won't work. a lot depends on how hool the air is in the house that you are bringing in. you might end up needing a portable a/c for flower at least. hard to say without actually knowing the environment the rooms are in. i would count on 2 intake fans hooked up to those thermostat controllers. one for each room. hang the probe from the thermostat controller on the tops of your plants and plug the fans into them. they will turn the intake fans on when the room gets too hot. let the exhaust fans run 24/7 or put them on timers if you want. i would just let them run. for intake and exhaust fans 4" cheap fans are fine.


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## Brother Numsi (May 6, 2012)

Nug,
That looks like another $500-600 plus connections and electricity......
http://www.bing.com/search?q=self-contained+portable+air+conditioner&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=self-contained+portable+air+conditioner&sc=1-39&sp=-1&sk=

I think I'm pushing $3K for the two rooms......if all went well I'd recoup after the third harvest sells...if all goes well.
I see the "original" Brother Numsi is on Game of thrones LOL.


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## nuglets (May 6, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Nug,
> That looks like another $500-600 plus connections and electricity......
> http://www.bing.com/search?q=self-contained+portable+air+conditioner&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=self-contained+portable+air+conditioner&sc=1-39&sp=-1&sk=
> 
> ...


yeah, it sucks. but unless you are in a very cold environment i don't see how you are going to cool those rooms without at least some sort of intake system. you sill might need an a/c anyway.


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## Bsw9090 (May 7, 2012)

nuglets said:


> to cover the 4 aeroponic systems you should get 2 600w lights or 2 1000w lights. 600w lights would be fine, 1000w lights would be optimal.


Like I said money is tight, but do you think I could get away with 2 400w hps/mh conversion lights? or 1 600 w potentially? I would think that the 400's would be more optimal (in the money situation). I most definitely do plan on having 1000w's in the end...



nuglets said:


> 128 clones is a ton. i can fit about 30 comfortably in one 10x20 cut tray. so 4 trays would be 20x40 which is an 8 lamp T5. mix the spectum up on the bulbs too. 5 grow and 3 bloom bulbs. or 6 and 2. more balanced spectrum.


What sort of 10x20 trays are you talking about? ebb & flow? Are you growing to fully grown and harvesting from the 10x20? Or just having it setup to grow the clones initially? I ask this because if I can end up having more setups in a smaller area, it would produce more.. How big of rock wool cubes would you suggest? 1.5x1.5 or 2x2?



nuglets said:


> if you are just taking cuttings every 2 months or a perpetual with 64 a month you are gonna need 6 moms in my opinion. you could probably get away with 4 but that would be a lot of stress on them and you might now be getting the best cuttings after about 20-25. 6 moms at 2x2 for each one is a 6x4 space to cover. you could do it much more efficiently with MH lights. 2 400w MH lights would be idea. if power and money are an issue then you are gonna need 3 8 lamp T5 setups or 2 12 lamp setups. Quantum makes a 12 lamp setup.


What did you mean by "you might now be getting the best cuttings after about 20-25"? Do you think you could make up like a general layout of what you think I should start with and possibly a beginning shopping list? I am getting ready to order some seeds in a few days, I'm thinking of a few strains from Nirvana.. AK-48, Northern Lights, White Widow, or Master Kush.. If you have any suggestions on strains to try out, please let me know, I'm trying to narrow it down to 2 high yielding strains that I can have that take around 6-8 weeks flowering period... Also, if its worth noting, we don't have any "brand name" strains around here, so I am definitely open to suggestions.. The seeds I just want fem, and it has to be around $40-50 per pack.

I definitely plan on having a perpetual grow, I just have to get this first grow completed to be able to reinvest back into the grow and trying to start out with putting as little into it as possible, but it is definitely one where I do have lee way for finances, I just want to not use up everything and looking for a ball park figure of how much it would cost to include a mother, clone, and flowering room, so if you could let me know about what I am looking at that'd be awesome. Also for the aeroponic setup by DrGreenFinger that I am looking mostly at, its around $400 for 4 setups (without lights), so if you know of any other setups I could make that still have around/more for cheaper and still efficient, please let me know, I do not do soil though... Also I did find some lights on amazon I believe that were around $165 for some 400w conversion mh/hps so I may be leaning more that way for the lights, but how much would the lights run up the bill say for... 2 400w and a 8 bulb t5?

What all should be on my initial list to purchase before I even start to germinate the seeds? 

I know lights, the system, timer(s), nutes, ph meter, rock wool, net pots, clay pellets, rooting compound... I do plan on having a fan and ducting for the hoods, but do you think that I could get away without for the first grow?

What your stance on mylar and/or panda plastic? Do you think its needed or just a "perk"?

I know that theres a lot of questions in here, if I have more, I'll just post after you let me know the answers to the above questions..


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## nuglets (May 7, 2012)

Bsw9090 said:


> Like I said money is tight, but do you think I could get away with 2 400w hps/mh conversion lights? or 1 600 w potentially? I would think that the 400's would be more optimal (in the money situation). I most definitely do plan on having 1000w's in the end...
> 
> What sort of 10x20 trays are you talking about? ebb & flow? Are you growing to fully grown and harvesting from the 10x20? Or just having it setup to grow the clones initially? I ask this because if I can end up having more setups in a smaller area, it would produce more.. How big of rock wool cubes would you suggest? 1.5x1.5 or 2x2?
> 
> ...


if money is tight but you can get a 240v outlet into the room then look at the Lumatek Dual 600w ballast. 1 ballasts controls 2 bulbs for the price of 1.5 ballasts. definitely worth it if you can get a 240v line in the room. here's a link. (http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/lumatek-600w-240v-dimmable-dual-electronic-ballasts-p-2109.html). the other option would be a T5 lighting system. since this is for your clones that would be just fine. Quantum makes 4-16 lamps setups. their 16 lamp setup would be perfect for a 4x4 area. this is the route i would go if i were you since money seems to be an option. you can pick one up for about $340 and that includes the bulbs. 

they are called "cut trays" or "propogation trays." something like these (http://www.greners.com/i/seed-starting-and-cloning/cut-trays/cut-tray-10-x-20.html). get the ones without holes. then you get a 7" humidity dome (http://www.greners.com/i/seed-starting-and-cloning/humidity-domes/mondi-7-mini-greenhouse.html) for each tray; a heat mat (http://www.greners.com/i/seed-starting-and-cloning/heat-mats/super-sprouter-seedling-heat-mat-2-tray.html) and a heat mat controller (http://www.greners.com/i/seed-starting-and-cloning/heat-mats/electronic-temperature-controller-for-heat-mat.html) for each heat mat. that heat mat will do 2 trays so you will only need 2 of them. there are others that do 1 tray so you would need 4. basically those are just for 1 week as you root your clone. as soon as they are rooted then you put them in the aeroponic system.

20-25 clones is a lot to take off 1 plant every month. you might end up having to take some really small cuttings that may not root. that's why i think you will need 6 mothers. that way you can take clones off 3 moms every month and then give them 2 months to recover as you take clones off the other 3 the next month. or take cuttings off 2 moms every 2 weeks. not sure how you are setting up this perpetual.

are you vegging and flowering in the aeroponic system?


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## wheels619 (May 7, 2012)

anyone posting in here have an idea on how to set up 2 4x4 vertical scrogs in 2 4x4 tents? not sure if its considered a floorplan but its worth a try. lol. ive got a couple ideas in my head but am kinda stuck. here is the link to the thread im posting on. any help would be appreciated. 

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/526269-help-setting-up-2-4x4.html#post7400577


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## nuglets (May 7, 2012)

not me bro. i'm lost on those things


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## Brother Numsi (May 7, 2012)

wheels619 said:


> anyone posting in here have an idea on how to set up 2 4x4 vertical scrogs in 2 4x4 tents? not sure if its considered a floorplan but its worth a try. lol. ive got a couple ideas in my head but am kinda stuck. here is the link to the thread im posting on. any help would be appreciated.
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/526269-help-setting-up-2-4x4.html#post7400577


Might try here:
https://www.rollitup.org/vertical-growing/

Good luck!!


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## wheels619 (May 7, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Might try here:
> https://www.rollitup.org/vertical-growing/
> 
> Good luck!!


thanks bro. repped.


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## Brother Numsi (May 7, 2012)

nuglets said:


> yeah, it sucks. but unless you are in a very cold environment i don't see how you are going to cool those rooms without at least some sort of intake system. you sill might need an a/c anyway.


Nug,
Money issue has resolved itself Can do pretty much what is needed. One friend has an LG portable A/C that may be drawing air from the attic, although that wouldn't make sense...maybe venting something there.....do you know of any that don't need to have the water emptied or is that a condition we have to live with? + repped


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## nuglets (May 7, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Nug,
> Money issue has resolved itself Can do pretty much what is needed. One friend has an LG portable A/C that may be drawing air from the attic, although that wouldn't make sense...maybe venting something there.....do you know of any that don't need to have the water emptied or is that a condition we have to live with? + repped


glad to hear things are looking up brother. what you want is a portable a/c with an evaporative coil. they sell them online everywhere. most of the newer models feature this. if the a/c is going to be in the grow room then get a dual hose model. if it's going to be in the main room and then you are using fans to pull that air into each room then a single hose is fine. exhaust into the attic. if it's in the grow room then pull the air from the outside room.


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## Brother Numsi (May 7, 2012)

nuglets said:


> glad to hear things are looking up brother. what you want is a portable a/c with an evaporative coil. they sell them online everywhere. most of the newer models feature this. if the a/c is going to be in the grow room then get a dual hose model. if it's going to be in the main room and then you are using fans to pull that air into each room then a single hose is fine. exhaust into the attic. if it's in the grow room then pull the air from the outside room.


I understand what you are saying...not sure how to pull the air from the bedroom without going thru a wall. Again this is a bedroom over a garage with two similar very large unfinished areas off each side. As the Japanese use to tell me, "We will have to study". LOL
Am looking forward to a trip to OH 17th-27th...road trip!. Have completed arrangements to stay with people so that freed up a lot of motel money 

I don't see any way of putting the unit in the bedroom and drawing enough cool air under a closed door....can probably leave it open.

This one looks pretty good, but I do not see where it is dual hose:
http://www.homedepot.com/Appliances-Heating-Cooling-Air-Quality-Air-Conditioners-Portable-Air-Conditioners/Whynter/LG-Electronics/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbv64Z6r2Z21j/R-202562962/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051


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## nuglets (May 7, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> I understand what you are saying...not sure how to pull the air from the bedroom without going thru a wall. Again this is a bedroom over a garage with two similar very large unfinished areas off each side. As the Japanese use to tell me, "We will have to study". LOL
> Am looking forward to a trip to OH 17th-27th...road trip!. Have completed arrangements to stay with people so that freed up a lot of motel money
> 
> I don't see any way of putting the unit in the bedroom and drawing enough cool air under a closed door....can probably leave it open.
> ...


can't you just put a fan in the wall on a thermostat controller? cut a hole in the wall and mount the inline fan with a flange. that way you can use 1 a/c to cool both rooms. maybe i'm not understanding though.

for a/c units just go to amazon and type in "dual hose portable a/c" here's one (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0060LZ7JC/ref=asc_df_B0060LZ7JC2001333?smid=A2RD94HAYE44NQ&tag=nextagusmp0355813-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B0060LZ7JC)


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## Brother Numsi (May 7, 2012)

nuglets said:


> can't you just put a fan in the wall on a thermostat controller? cut a hole in the wall and mount the inline fan with a flange. that way you can use 1 a/c to cool both rooms. maybe i'm not understanding though.
> 
> for a/c units just go to amazon and type in "dual hose portable a/c" here's one (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0060LZ7JC/ref=asc_df_B0060LZ7JC2001333?smid=A2RD94HAYE44NQ&tag=nextagusmp0355813-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B0060LZ7JC)


Nug,
Yeah I looked at that one and the 12,000 before...certainly in the running. Not concerned with the noise critiques, just the water condensation removal. Thanks.
Now there are a couple problems I cannot control:
1. I would be using a friend's house and I don't know how amenable he'll be to cutting a hole in the wall.
2. The two rooms are at least 15 feet apart with a bedroom in betwen them, so no way to cool both rooms that way. 

I'll have to see what he thinks. I wish I could do it in my house, but I can't  I have two friends that fit the profile needed...one of whom is not as reliable as I need and the other is understandably reluctant. I'm hoping the love of money wins out LOL.

OK, so recapping, we have a list of lighting needed for two rooms, fans needed, an A/C unit known to be needed...working on installation, movable walls LOL, so can we move onto soil, what else to put into pots, transplanting, and topping? 
Thanks!!


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## graab187 (May 7, 2012)

PEOPLE OF ROLLITUP

I need help with my closet grow set up. I have a 4' x 4' x 8' area in my closet. I need help with ventilation and keeping my temps down.
I have a 400 watt hps and a t5 for the grow. the T5's wont be a problem but when i switch to flower, heat will be a big problem. 
Ideas on ducting and exhaust and how to keep my light pollution down in the room. I have black-out material but i feel like when its down it traps all of the hot air in there. I have an intake fan blowing cool air from my room into the closet but no exhaust. I just keep the material off of the wall during the day so it has proper airflow. 

I need some good links that anyone has found that has the perfect closet grow layout. I need the actual layout!!

Any input would be awesome.


-G.Raab-


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## Brother Numsi (May 7, 2012)

I think the pros will need more to go on here:
1. House, apt, ...what is above and behind your closet?
2. Even if you had a tent the exhaust has to go somewhere....any vent in the closet.

We have opposite problems...right now it looks like I have plenty of exhaust, but no intake.
Maybe can go in and out thru a wall and a door using good filtering?
Need a bit more info.


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## wheels619 (May 7, 2012)

my room is hot as hell with just one 4x4 with a 400 mh in it. its livable now in the low 80s. but as soon as i put the other 4x4 in here with the 1000hps in it im going to cut a big ass 8 inch hole in my ceiling to my attic. lol. to vent both tents. intake on the tents is going to be an 8 inch 735cfm fan branched off to feed both tents. im going to have a 400cfm 6 inch venting the hoods with filters on them for each tent eventually coming together in a dual 6 into 8 adapter. so does everyone think that it would be ok to have them setup this way? about 360cfms going into each tent and 400cfms exhausted into the attic?


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## wheels619 (May 7, 2012)

or should i slow the 8 inch a bit with the controller? i guess what im asking is will it be enough?


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## Brother Numsi (May 7, 2012)

wheels619 said:


> or should i slow the 8 inch a bit with the controller? i guess what im asking is will it be enough?


I trust Nug's advice..see what he says


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## nuglets (May 7, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Nug,
> Yeah I looked at that one and the 12,000 before...certainly in the running. Not concerned with the noise critiques, just the water condensation removal. Thanks.
> Now there are a couple problems I cannot control:
> 1. I would be using a friend's house and I don't know how amenable he'll be to cutting a hole in the wall.
> ...


hey man, i was confused. i thought the 2 grow rooms were inside of a larger room sorry about that. yea, get a dual hose a/c for he flower room and let's rethink the 1000w in the veg room. this might create heat problems that you won't be able to handle without an a/c. it think you are back to T5's in the veg room. if not you need to find a way o cool the veg room as well.

soil...easy. sunshine #4 with 20% worm casting added in. plus a tablespoon of dolmite lime per gallon for pH control. sunshine is a soiless mix that has no nutes in it. the worm castings are for beneficial bacteria and fungi. easy medium to grow in and it's really cheap.

for pots i would go 1 gallon pots to 3 gallon to 7 gallon a week before flower. that simple.

topping? YES!! also LST. you are doing a long veg time and i would recommend both techniques to get really bushy plants. i'd also recommend growing in 4-5' tomato cages. you can get cheap ones on amazon. something like this (http://www.amazon.com/Glamos-710022-18-Inch-54-Inch-Green/dp/B004T82R2I/ref=sr_1_47?ie=UTF8&qid=1336446749&sr=8-47). these things are great for gorwing bushy plants and support in late bloom when the buds start to get heavy.


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## nuglets (May 7, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> I think the pros will need more to go on here:
> 1. House, apt, ...what is above and behind your closet?
> 2. Even if you had a tent the exhaust has to go somewhere....any vent in the closet.
> 
> ...


i agree, need more info. can you exhaust into the ceiling by cutting a hole? you obviously are going to need to exhaust the heat from at least the light somewhere. what are the options?


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## coolj (May 7, 2012)

*I have 2 gavita pro 1000s I have a 11x11 room, i cut the room in half it has a window and a door that leads to my enclosed back porch. the question i have is should i use the window AC i have or get a portable ac? what size portable would be good? also would the window ac suck out my room smells outside for all to smell? LOL. I thought i could get a portable ac and exhaust it onto my carbon filter and use my 6" fan to bring fresh air in from the window or cut a hole into my back porch door and pull air from there HELP ! *


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## nuglets (May 7, 2012)

wheels619 said:


> my room is hot as hell with just one 4x4 with a 400 mh in it. its livable now in the low 80s. but as soon as i put the other 4x4 in here with the 1000hps in it im going to cut a big ass 8 inch hole in my ceiling to my attic. lol. to vent both tents. intake on the tents is going to be an 8 inch 735cfm fan branched off to feed both tents. im going to have a 400cfm 6 inch venting the hoods with filters on them for each tent eventually coming together in a dual 6 into 8 adapter. so does everyone think that it would be ok to have them setup this way? about 360cfms going into each tent and 400cfms exhausted into the attic?


if you already have the ballast and bulb then it's fine but in a 4x4 tent you really don't need anything more than 600w. trust me. the light footprint for a 600w at 5,000-10,000 footcandles is almost exactly 4x4. just a though to help with temps.

i'd switch those fans around if i were you. you don't need that much intake air. a 1000w hood really needs to be cleared and using "Y" ducts heavily reduces the CFM rating on fans. I woul use the big 8" fan to pull air through the hoods and the 6" fan as your intake. if anything you will be creating negative pressure in your tent this way which helps to cool it and also keeps any odor in the tents and not leaking into the room.


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## nuglets (May 7, 2012)

coolj said:


> *I have 2 gavita pro 1000s I have a 11x11 room, i cut the room in half it has a window and a door that leads to my enclosed back porch. the question i have is should i use the window AC i have or get a portable ac? what size portable would be good? also would the window ac suck out my room smells outside for all to smell? LOL. I thought i could get a portable ac and exhaust it onto my carbon filter and use my 6" fan to bring fresh air in from the window or cut a hole into my back porch door and pull air from there HELP ! *


i would use the window a/c. they are WAY more efficient than portable a/c units. they don't mix air. they use outside air to cool the refrigerant coils and they only push the air from in the room over those coils to pull the heat out of it. definitely stick with the window a/c. they get some light odor leak on the cheap ones that are not dual chamber but you can fix that by just wrapping the front grate on the a/c with an extra layer of carbon pre filter. they sells sheets and rolls at any hardware store or anywhere they sell air purifiers. plus, the window a/c will save you a ton on electricity as opposed to the portable.


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## wheels619 (May 7, 2012)

nuglets said:


> if you already have the ballast and bulb then it's fine but in a 4x4 tent you really don't need anything more than 600w. trust me. the light footprint for a 600w at 5,000-10,000 footcandles is almost exactly 4x4. just a though to help with temps.
> 
> i'd switch those fans around if i were you. you don't need that much intake air. a 1000w hood really needs to be cleared and using "Y" ducts heavily reduces the CFM rating on fans. I woul use the big 8" fan to pull air through the hoods and the 6" fan as your intake. if anything you will be creating negative pressure in your tent this way which helps to cool it and also keeps any odor in the tents and not leaking into the room.


i think we switched something up here. lol. i would be using the 735cfm 8 inch with a dust shroom y'd into 2 4x4 tents as intake which should cut the cfms down to roughly 367 or so each tent. each tent would have a 400cfm 6 inch fan for exhaust for the light and the carbon filters. both 6 inch exhausts would after about 6-8 ft be y'd later into an 8 inch duct to help move the almost 800 cfms the 2 6 inch fans are said to move going thru it to the attic. my question is will the s 400 cfm fans be enough air movement to overcome the 735cfm fan set up this way? will it give me the negative presure that i need? the only reason im running so much circulation is becuz im not running ac and need the fresh air constantly from living so close to the beach. helps fight all the nasty pm and mold and shit.


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## Brother Numsi (May 8, 2012)

Nug,
I hope this site stays up for awhile. In case my friend is reluctant to cut holes in his house, what do you think of a VERY large grow tent in a garage...Danby feeding it cool air thru the intake opening and a Can 6" HO on the other end with the dual Lumatek running 2 400w MH to veg and 2 600w to finish? Other than a problem you'll see (LOL) I have no separate veg room and that really limits the number of harvests.
When you get a chance lets talk soil, pots, nutes, and transplants.
Thanks!


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## nuglets (May 8, 2012)

wheels619 said:


> i think we switched something up here. lol. i would be using the 735cfm 8 inch with a dust shroom y'd into 2 4x4 tents as intake which should cut the cfms down to roughly 367 or so each tent. each tent would have a 400cfm 6 inch fan for exhaust for the light and the carbon filters. both 6 inch exhausts would after about 6-8 ft be y'd later into an 8 inch duct to help move the almost 800 cfms the 2 6 inch fans are said to move going thru it to the attic. my question is will the s 400 cfm fans be enough air movement to overcome the 735cfm fan set up this way? will it give me the negative presure that i need? the only reason im running so much circulation is becuz im not running ac and need the fresh air constantly from living so close to the beach. helps fight all the nasty pm and mold and shit.


hey bud, i was slightly confused but i still think you should change the setup.

for the hoods i would use 1 8" high output fan to pull through both hoods. you want to set the fan up after the "Y" and as close to the exhaust point as possible. mount it on the ceiling if you can. this will be a lot more efficient than 2 fans pushing air through all that ducting and the "Y". inline fans; or any fan for that matter; is much more efficient at pulling air then it is at pushing it.

then i would get cheap 4" fans for the intake on each tent. lose the "Y" and just stick each fan on a thermostat controller. that way they won't run if you don't need the cooling. will save you on electricity. plus it splits the two tents whcih is good because 1 tent may beed cooling while the other doesn't. 

good luck.


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## nuglets (May 8, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Nug,
> I hope this site stays up for awhile. In case my friend is reluctant to cut holes in his house, what do you think of a VERY large grow tent in a garage...Danby feeding it cool air thru the intake opening and a Can 6" HO on the other end with the dual Lumatek running 2 400w MH to veg and 2 600w to finish? Other than a problem you'll see (LOL) I have no separate veg room and that really limits the number of harvests.
> When you get a chance lets talk soil, pots, nutes, and transplants.
> Thanks!


grow tents ROCK!!  seriously though, i really like tents for situations like yours. if you are handy with tools and have some basic construction knowledge you can build one really easily. up to you though.

i would go with 2 smaller tents in your situation though. if you can afford it. that way you have a veg tent and a flower tent. you can start vegging plants while the other ones are flowering. then when you harvest you will have plants ready to go into the flower tent instead of having to start from veg all over again. this way you get a harvest every 2 months. plus the veg tent can be used as a place to hang and dry your buds for a week. you won't need it right away.

you can just stick a fan and some ducting from the flower tent into the veg tent. stick the a/c in the flower tent and the fan in the veg tent on a thermostat controller. 

i'm sending you a private message. check it out.


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## Brother Numsi (May 8, 2012)

I'll get back to you on the PM, thanks!
I thought about 2 tents...I figure about $550 for a flower tent to hold 6-8 mature plants and $300 or so for the veg tent. Not sure how big these tents need to be to maneuver around in there  I'm not a small guy.

So would the system look like:
A/C (may go with 13K BTU) into the large tent from outside the tent, two reflectors and 2 bulbs in the flower tent, connect with fan (6" HO or reg?) to the veg tent , what can we get away with for lighting in the veg tent? back to 1,000 MH or less?, and then an exhaust fan pulling the air out. That put one fan pulling out of the flower tent and one pulling out of the veg tent. Where exactly would the timer(s) and thermostat go? Also, are you suggesting that the A/C unit actually go inside the flower tent? I think we're getting close to a solution  My friend with the house just backed out, so that leaves the less reliable friend. This shouldn't be that difficult LOL.


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## nuglets (May 8, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> I'll get back to you on the PM, thanks!
> I thought about 2 tents...I figure about $550 for a flower tent to hold 6-8 mature plants and $300 or so for the veg tent. Not sure how big these tents need to be to maneuver around in there)
> 
> So would the system look like:
> A/C (may go with 13K BTU) into the large tent from outside the tent, two reflectors and 2 bulbs in the flower tent, connect with fan (6" HO or reg?) to the veg tent , what can we get away with for lighting in the veg tent? back to 1,000 MH or less?, and then an exhaust fan pulling the air out. That put one fan pulling out of the flower tent and one pulling out of the veg tent. Where exactly would the timer(s) and thermostat go? Also, are you suggesting that the A/C unit actually go inside the flower tent? I think we're getting close to a solution  My friend with the house just backed out, so that leaves the less reliable friend using his garage. This shouldn't be that difficult LOL.


hey bud, i'd build two cheeap rooms out of 1x2's and drywall. gonna be a lot cheaper than tents. but if you are gonna get tents then i recommend growlab. that's what i use and i love them. great construction. for flower i thing the GL145L would be perfect (http://www.greners.com/i/grow-tents/growlab/growlab-portable-grow-rooms-gl145l.html). that will give you plenty of room for other equipment like the a/c and enough room to get around the plants. for the veg room it kinda depends. are you going to have moms and clones going or are you gonna start from seeds everytime? if you are gonna clone plants in there then you will need a larger tent to hold 6-8 vegging plants and 1 mom and a cloning station. maybe the GL120L (http://www.greners.com/i/grow-tents/growlab/growlab-portable-grow-rooms-gl120l.html). that will give you enough room for everything you would need.

i would place the a/c in the tent. having it running in the garage will be a pain and very inefficient. place it in the tent and then have some 4" ducting connecting the 2 tents and a 4" regular inline fan hooked up to a thermostat controller at the end of that ducting in the veg tent. that way when the veg tent needs cooling it will pull air from the flower tent. 2 400w lights are gonna be more expensive cause you have to buy 2 ballasts, 2 bulbs, and 2 hoods. but that would be the most efficient way to go. a 1000w light would be a cheaper way to go. whichever you decide will determine the veg tent you need to get. 

you would need a carbon filter inside of the flower tent. a fan for the lights. a fan in the veg tent on a thermostat controller. and a fan for the lights in the veg tent.


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## Brother Numsi (May 8, 2012)

nuglets said:


> hey bud, i'd build two cheeap rooms out of 1x2's and drywall. gonna be a lot cheaper than tents. but if you are gonna get tents then i recommend growlab. that's what i use and i love them. great construction. for flower i thing the GL145L would be perfect (http://www.greners.com/i/grow-tents/growlab/growlab-portable-grow-rooms-gl145l.html). that will give you plenty of room for other equipment like the a/c and enough room to get around the plants. for the veg room it kinda depends. are you going to have moms and clones going or are you gonna start from seeds everytime? if you are gonna clone plants in there then you will need a larger tent to hold 6-8 vegging plants and 1 mom and a cloning station. maybe the GL120L (http://www.greners.com/i/grow-tents/growlab/growlab-portable-grow-rooms-gl120l.html). that will give you enough room for everything you would need.
> 
> i would place the a/c in the tent. having it running in the garage will be a pain and very inefficient. place it in the tent and then have some 4" ducting connecting the 2 tents and a 4" regular inline fan hooked up to a thermostat controller at the end of that ducting in the veg tent. that way when the veg tent needs cooling it will pull air from the flower tent. 2 400w lights are gonna be more expensive cause you have to buy 2 ballasts, 2 bulbs, and 2 hoods. but that would be the most efficient way to go. a 1000w light would be a cheaper way to go. whichever you decide will determine the veg tent you need to get.
> 
> you would need a carbon filter inside of the flower tent. a fan for the lights. a fan in the veg tent on a thermostat controller. and a fan for the lights in the veg tent.


Hi Nug,
We're getting there, but as usual I'm a bit confused. First clarification...my original thought was to put the A/C in the garage and tape ducting around the blower and send it directly into the flower tent, pulling air from the garage.
By putting the A/C unit in the tent it's drawing warm air, isn't it?

We would be starting from seeds every time...no Mom or clones, so I figured the lighting and ballasts would be the same as if I were using my friend's house with the two rooms.
That said it would be a filter, reflector #1, 4" (not 6"?) ducting to reflector #2 (1st using a 400w MH, then change to 600W HPS) using the dual electronic ballast, then 4" (not 6") ducting to the duct exiting the flower room. Upon entry to the veg room used a 4" reg fan (not a 6"?) to pull the air out of the flower room into the veg room and that's where the thermostat would go, too? Then 4" ducting to the reflector with the 1000w MH with an electronic ballast, then 4" (not 6"?) ducting to the exit duct and another 4" (not 6") fan. I am missing the placement of one fan. Also what do I do with the entry duct in the flower room since I won't be pumping the A/C through it?

I have a Masters Degree, but was never a good standardized test taker and cannot visualize set ups..need a step by step picture for me. I think you probably see that from this communication. May all my buds be as dense as I am.
Patience is a virtue, oh virtuous one LOL.


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## Living The Dream (May 10, 2012)

hey guys...hope everyone is doing well.


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## kamie (May 11, 2012)

hey guys what should i keep my ph at when using sunshine #4? i was told to treat it as hydro so i kept the ph at 5.8


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## hellraizer30 (May 11, 2012)

Yep 5.8 kamie


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## Living The Dream (May 11, 2012)

kamie said:


> hey guys what should i keep my ph at when using sunshine #4? i was told to treat it as hydro so i kept the ph at 5.8


hey kamie, i also grow in sunshine. i've always kept mine at 6.3. i treat it just like soil.


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## kamie (May 11, 2012)

Living The Dream said:


> hey kamie, i also grow in sunshine. i've always kept mine at 6.3. i treat it just like soil.


i thought 6.5 was best for soil? how do u like yours at 6.3? is there ever any issues?


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## hellraizer30 (May 11, 2012)

Even in hydro you can go to 6.3 with to much if any issues, sinse sunshine is considered a soiless medium
it falls under a hydro medium. And should be treated as so


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## Living The Dream (May 11, 2012)

kamie said:


> i thought 6.5 was best for soil? how do u like yours at 6.3? is there ever any issues?


soil is best at 6.3-6.8. you just have to find the range that works for you, the strain that you are growing, and the nutes that you use. every strain and nutrient will need you to tweak a little just as every medium is slightly different. my soil has worm castings in it so maybe that makes a little difference. i've always run it between 6.2-6.4. when it get's out of that range then i adjust to compensate.

hellraizer, i'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one bud. even though it's soiless you should really treat it as soil. just like coco which is basically an inert medium often used in hydro but likes a pH a little higher in the 6.0 area. been using sunshine for a while and don't have any issues running her at 6.3 consistantly.


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## polyarcturus (May 11, 2012)

6.2 soiless or hydro or soil pH perfect regardless of buffer(soil and soiless, sometimes hydro) pHing feed will just extend its lifetime of effective pH buffering


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## ihavealotofquestions (May 11, 2012)

5.8 for hydro boyz. 



yup yup.


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## Living The Dream (May 11, 2012)

ihavealotofquestions said:


> 5.8 for hydro boyz.
> 
> View attachment 2162584
> 
> yup yup.


we're talking about sunshine #4 soiless mix. not hydro.


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## ihavealotofquestions (May 11, 2012)

polyarcturus said:


> 6.2 soiless or *hydro *or soil pH perfect regardless of buffer(soil and soiless, sometimes hydro) pHing feed will just extend its lifetime of effective pH buffering


This nigga was talkin' bout hydro throwin' some random number of pH for hydro bra. What will people do with false information?! They will FAIL.


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## Living The Dream (May 11, 2012)

ihavealotofquestions said:


> This nigga was talkin' bout hydro throwin' some random number of pH for hydro bra. What will people do with false information?! They will FAIL.


look dude...everyone is entitled to their opinion man. i know poly and he knows his shit. i he said 6.2 it's for a reason or he mistyped by accident. i agree, 5.8 for hydro has always been the sweetspot for me. just no need to get fired up about it. just an online forum man.


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## hellraizer30 (May 11, 2012)

Im running a bunch of shit in sunshine 4 at 5.8 ph also as a test i have a bucket of sunshine 4 on a flood table thats set to 5.8
And everything is looking great! And i got a buddy that does drain to waist with sunshine and he swears by 5.8. 
The fact is for soilless/hydro medium 5.8 to 6.3 is a ok range! So theres no right or rong to this debait, more personal prefference.


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## nuglets (May 11, 2012)

i've got my sunshine around 6.3 to 6.4 i'm gonna try and lower it and see how the plants react. i've got a crop in flower right now that is half "perfect" but the other half has this light yellow tinge to them. not sure if it is the strain or not. gonna try 6.0 and see what that does. maybe not 5.8 but if i lower it to 6.0 and it should be 5.8 then it will start to look better and then i'll know.


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## hellraizer30 (May 11, 2012)

That light yellowing is a sign of under feeding


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## nuglets (May 11, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> That light yellowing is a sign of under feeding


i tested that theory out. it's what uncle ben told me to do. i ran the nutes at 1250 and 1475 over the last 2 weeks. no change though. 1475 for week 3 is pushing it. even got a little burn. nothing major though. that's what makes me think it's the pH cause everything thing else is dialed in. the other strain in the room is rockin. they look so healthy it's crazy.


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## hellraizer30 (May 11, 2012)

Wow i thought you were running alot lower! Yah your ph is got to be it nuglet


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## nuglets (May 11, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Wow i thought you were running alot lower! Yah your ph is got to be it nuglet


do different strain like different pH levels? i though pH affected medium, not strain? could it be that pH affects one but not the other? i don't want to mess up the other half that are doing great. i've been doing a feed, water, feed, water schedule for about 2 weeks. i started flower at 950, then went to 1200, and just 2 days ago i fed them 1475. trying to test where the limits are but i'm not there yet. i haven't really gotten a burn yet. maybe 1 or 2 leaf tips on a plant. by the time i water it's back and going good. 

i'm gonna post some pics in my journal tonight when the lights come on. i think what i'm gonna do is like a mini flush on this next straight water. should be tomorrow. i'm feeding 1.5 gallons every 3 days and they are just soaking it up. i'm gonna pH the water to 5.9 for the yellow plants and put maybe 1.75 to 2 gallons through. not a real flush but get some runoff and really soak them. then on the healthy plants i'm gonna just dip it down a little to 6.1 and see how they react to that. i mean they are so healthy but not "perfect" maybe. 

what do you think about that hellraizer?


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## hellraizer30 (May 11, 2012)

Well nug some strains can be more picky on were they like the ph, and were you keep your ppm at.
why i stay at 5.8 as a average no higher than 6.0 although 6.3 has been ok to! Just not a sweet spot 
for me.


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## nuglets (May 11, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Well nug some strains can be more picky on were they like the ph, and were you keep your ppm at.
> why i stay at 5.8 as a average no higher than 6.0 although 6.3 has been ok to! Just not a sweet spot
> for me.


yea...i'm gonna test out my little theory there and post some results in the journal. i'll keep you up to date man.


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## Brother Numsi (May 11, 2012)

Nug,
I am in negotiation for some of my list now:
* Quantity Part # Description Disc. % Unit Price Extended*
 5 201851.2 BLB-023 Bad Boy 4ft 2900k Fl Grow Lamp 0 % $7.90 $39.50
 10 201851.1 BLB-021 Bad Boy 4ft 6500k Fl Grow Lamp 0 % $7.90 $79.00
 1 201850.3 Quantum Badboy T5 4ft 12 Bulb Fixture 0 % $279.90 $279.90
 1 201577-3 Lumatek LK6240D 600W 240V Dual E-Ballast 0 % $264.90 $264.90
 2 201551-1 RD6AC Radiant 6in AC reflector 0 % $109.90 $219.80
 2 601041 DX600MH 600w Digilux MH grow lamp 0 % $59.90 $119.80
 2 601045 DX600HPS 600w Digilux HPS grow lamp 0 % $59.90 $119.80
 1 221225 ART-Dne adjustable recycle timer 0 % $54.90 $54.90
 1 221253.2 Intermatic HB112C 15A 240v HD Timer 0 % $14.90 $14.90
 1 999990 Lumatek Ice Pack 0 % $8.90 $8.90
 1 999990 Can RS 6 HO, 440 cfm  0 % $149.90 $149.90
 1 199907.5 Phresh Filter 6" x 24" 550 CFM 0 % $119.90 $119.90
 *Sub Total:* $1,471.20
 *Tax:* $95.64
 *Total Quote:* $1,566.84


He has yet to quote me a 4" HO Can Fan and I asked him to quote me the Can Fan filter. His FL bulb pricing was $3 higher than his web site and the Ice Pack doesn't work with that ballast...a little test I gave him. I can get the Hortilux bulbs for $15 higher than the Digilux...worth it or not? His pricing was pretty sharp. Any comments?


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## nuglets (May 11, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Nug,
> I am in negotiation for some of my list now:
> * Quantity Part # Description Disc. % Unit Price Extended*
> 5 201851.2 BLB-023 Bad Boy 4ft 2900k Fl Grow Lamp 0 % $7.90 $39.50
> ...


hey buddy. nice stuff you got there. gonna be like christmas at numsi's house. lol.

* couple little things. first, you don't need the ice pack. those lumateks run pretty cool. just keep it out of the room and you'll be fine. you can put a fan on it if you want. no need though.
* you don't need a HO fan for the 4". not even a CAN fan. save yourself some money. any decent brand will be fine. it's only for an intake. get an EcoPlus or Active Air fan if he has them. should be around half the price. that 4" CAN will run like $140. get one for aroun $80-$90 and save the money.
* those Radiant hoods only come with the Hydrofarm lamp cord. there are 2 industry standard lamp cords (Common and Hydrofarm). this is the cord that runs from the mogul socket on the hood to the ballast. i am almost positive that the dual Lumatek ballast only comes with a Common lamp cord. the other Lumateks come in either but the dual one is only in Common. double check but I am pretty sure. if so then get a blockbuster, yield master, or cool sun. all great hoods and should be a little cheaper. they are Sun Systems hoods and come with Common styles lamp cords.
* it's up to you but i would recommend the Hortilux Super HPS bulbs over the Digilux ones. a much broaer spectrum with more blue light in it. the money you'll save on hoods and the 4" fan will more than cover it.

hope that helps bud.


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## Brother Numsi (May 11, 2012)

Fine tuned the order, thanks. This is still an expensive project....


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## ihavealotofquestions (May 11, 2012)

Living The Dream said:


> look dude...everyone is entitled to their opinion man. i know poly and he knows his shit. i he said 6.2 it's for a reason or he mistyped by accident. i agree, 5.8 for hydro has always been the sweetspot for me. just no need to get fired up about it. just an online forum man.


Don't be sillly, I'm just playin' dude. Anyways everyone runs a different pH, whatever suits them and their ladies


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## nuglets (May 11, 2012)

ihavealotofquestions said:


> Don't be sillly, I'm just playin' dude. Anyways everyone runs a different pH, whatever suits them and their ladies


yea, i'm gonna test out hellraizers theory. just ran about 2 gallons of pH 5.9 into each of my plants. we'll see if it helps fix the minor problems i'm having. nothing major going on though. go check out my grow journal. just posted like 12 pics. day 18 of flower.


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## Brother Numsi (May 12, 2012)

*Wow, they look great! You do good work





I got a local hydro store to match pricing so the project, as far as buying materials, started today with 2 Hortilux 600w HPS at $95.81 each including tax. It looks like I'll probably go with GrowLabs 145 for veg and GrowLabs 145L for flower unless the 240 or 290 make more sense. I may not get the Quantum 12...may use an 8 and 4 from someone else...a compromise for leaving him bloody on the floor after matching prices LOL.
Later Nugs. *


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## nuglets (May 12, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> *Wow, they look great! You do good work
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nice! glad to see you are on your way. just remember...a little extra room in a tent is a good thing. you are gonna need an a/c in the flower tent like we talked about but you may find that you need a dehumidifier later on or just want some room to move around. i see no problem using an 8 and 4 t5 light. when the plants are smaller you could probably just get away with the 8 bulb and save some electricity.


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## Brother Numsi (May 12, 2012)

nuglets said:


> nice! glad to see you are on your way. just remember...a little extra room in a tent is a good thing. you are gonna need an a/c in the flower tent like we talked about but you may find that you need a dehumidifier later on or just want some room to move around. i see no problem using an 8 and 4 t5 light. when the plants are smaller you could probably just get away with the 8 bulb and save some electricity.


Not my electricity LOL. It's a 3 way deal...a friend's garage, another friend looking after everything, and my $$$ to get it off the ground. I am just a bit concerned about the room in the flower tent and adding both an A/C and dehumidifier. The dehumidifier can be on cinder blocks or something else to raise it up so it can drain out thru a hose and be out of the way.
I don't see where there carry a 600 watt MH bulb other than a conversion bulb. I'm not in a hurry 

Your journal rocks!!


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## nuglets (May 12, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Not my electricity LOL. It's a 3 way deal...a friend's garage, another friend looking after everything, and my $$$ to get it off the ground. I am just a bit concerned about the room in the flower tent and adding both an A/C and dehumidifier. The dehumidifier can be on cinder blocks or something else to raise it up so it can drain out thru a hose and be out of the way.
> I don't see where there carry a 600 watt MH bulb other than a conversion bulb. I'm not in a hurry
> 
> Your journal rocks!!


thanks man...got a little something going on here at the house in the garage as well. flipping from 2 8x8 tents to 3 4x8 tents in a month or so after this harvest. gonna be running a hydro system with 18 plants and a soil setup with 18. do 2 flower tents on a perpetual flip. one runs for 12 hours and then the other for 12 hours. offset them by a month so that i can get a harvest every 30 days. who knows...may end up having to hire someone to help me with all that work and mixing different nutes. lol

test it out with the a/c first. you might not need a dehumidifier. not sure what the environment is like where you live. the a//c will dehumidify but the problem is even an a/c that is perfectly sized won't run much during lights out cycle. and a/c's need to run in order to dehumidify. that's how guys get humidity spike during lights out and walk into their tent walls covered in condensation. not good. invites mold and mildew. 

if you get a dehumidifier then drain that thing to a garabage can or reservoir with a lid. free filtered water. dehu runoff water is like 20ppm and really cold. just keep the dehu filter clean and you're good to go.

digilux makes 600w mh bulbs. conversion bulbs are fine too.


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## Brother Numsi (May 12, 2012)

I can pick up the Digilux on the road trip. I have to remember there is no rush on this. I would get a dehumidifier with a hose drain with the hose draining out of the garage...no problem....we'll make sure it's needed before I buy one.

Man you've got a great set up, but I know that it didn't happen overnight LOL. At some point when I get back we'll talk planting and feeding, etc.
Thanks!


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## nuglets (May 12, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> I can pick up the Digilux on the road trip. I have to remember there is no rush on this. I would get a dehumidifier with a hose drain with the hose draining out of the garage...no problem....we'll make sure it's needed before I buy one.
> 
> Man you've got a great set up, but I know that it didn't happen overnight LOL. At some point when I get back we'll talk planting and feeding, etc.
> Thanks!


sounds good brotha. be safe.

*"What is that feeling when you're driving away from people and they recede on the plain till you see their specks dispersing? &#8212; it's the too-huge world vaulting us, and it's good-by. But we lean forward to the next crazy venture beneath the skies." - *Jack Kerouac (On The Road)


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## nuglets (May 12, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Well nug some strains can be more picky on were they like the ph, and were you keep your ppm at.
> why i stay at 5.8 as a average no higher than 6.0 although 6.3 has been ok to! Just not a sweet spot
> for me.


hey hellraizer. ran some pH 5.9 water through her yesterday. got about 2 gallons in the pot and probably 1.5 quarts of runoff. just checked on them and no signs of improvement. maybe even a little worse as the cheese plants have started to show a few lighter colored leaves. i'm gonna ride it out for the next 2-3 days till i need to water again. i'm thinking it could be a lack of nitrogen. gonna throw some veg nutes in the mix next time. see how she reacts to that. probably keep it at 5.9 for that watering and see if it was the nitrogen. if not then i'm gonna move back to 6.3.


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## hellraizer30 (May 13, 2012)

It takes time to see a change, to a week! But nothing is rong with adding some N i would go
with a sensi cal sup! That would target cal/mag and N. but do as you feel is right


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## nuglets (May 13, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> It takes time to see a change, to a week! But nothing is rong with adding some N i would go
> with a sensi cal sup! That would target cal/mag and N. but do as you feel is right


i'm watering pretty much every 3 days now. so with this pH watering and the next pH feeding at 5.9 then that would be 9 days at pH 5.9 and 6 days with the added nitrogen. do you think thta would be long enough to test out the theory of the pH being too high at 6.3?

i already add about 150ppm of cal/mag to each feeding. i'm just gonna add some sensi grow 2 part to my nutrient mix. probably go with 600ppm of connoisseur. 400ppm of the sensi grow and 150ppm of cal/mag. that would be a decent N boost. 

any thoughts?


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## hellraizer30 (May 13, 2012)

Sinse i dont use sensi grow or connoisseur i dont know the chemical make up of it! And mixing by ppms
and not adding your npk ratio leaves me at a disavantage trying to help correctly 

Using AN sensi and conno is on there feeding chart, if i were you i would follow it to 3/4 strength and add
seni cal to eliminate any cal issue. Fyi botanicairs cal/mag i think sucks.

I think following there chart to 3/4 strength will solve your problems with N.

Alot of folks confuse a N issue with cal mag issues or vise versa. Sensi cal solves both


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## nuglets (May 13, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Sinse i dont use sensi grow or connoisseur i dont know the chemical make up of it! And mixing by ppms
> and not adding your npk ratio leaves me at a disavantage trying to help correctly
> 
> Using AN sensi and conno is on there feeding chart, if i were you i would follow it to 3/4 strength and add
> ...


i'm a little lost. why run it at 3/4 strength? i pushed it to 1475 last time and didn't see any burn. i've been giving them cal/mag with every feeding (150-200ppm) without any burn. plus the supplements i have and connoisseur have a fair amount of cal/mag. i was thinking of maybe backing off the cal/mag a little as i notice the advanced lineup i'm using seems to be heavier then most nutes in cal/mag.

guess i'm just confused as to why i would back it off 3/4 strength to solve N problems. wouldn't i want to add N? or do you think it's too much N that is causing the yellowing?


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## hellraizer30 (May 13, 2012)

I think your n.p.k ratios are not right and to much p and k are locking out your plant N!
aN formulas are extreme and need to followed via the feeding chart, reason i say 3/4 is
if you followed it 100% your ppms would be over 1800  do you have a feeding chart?
and are you useing the new ph perfect line?


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## nuglets (May 13, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I think your n.p.k ratios are not right and to much p and k are locking out your plant N!
> aN formulas are extreme and need to followed via the feeding chart, reason i say 3/4 is
> if you followed it 100% your ppms would be over 1800  do you have a feeding chart?
> and are you useing the new ph perfect line?


hey hellraizer, thanks for all the help man. you are great!! so patient it's scary sometimes..haha.

i have the feeding chart and i follow it to the T. same ratios and everything. what i do is just use half their recommended dosages of all the base nutes and supplements. that usually gets me to around the ppm i am looking for (usually a little lower than half the ppm on the chart). then i just add cal/mag (150-200ppm) to make up the difference. so my ratios are always the same as their chart. just using half the recommended dosages to get the ppm i want.

i'm not using their pH perfect lines.


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## Brother Numsi (May 13, 2012)

Nug,
This isn't for me, but it made for an interesting read:
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/116859-harvest-pound-every-three-weeks.html


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## nuglets (May 13, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Nug,
> This isn't for me, but it made for an interesting read:
> https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/116859-harvest-pound-every-three-weeks.html


Hey bud. Yea, I've seen that thread before. Not really my style of growing though. Differing opinions on some things too.


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## Brother Numsi (May 14, 2012)

Well Nug, packed in my garage is:
2 600w Hortilux HPS, 2 YieldMaster II Supremes, 1 CanFan 6" HO, 1 Phresh 6x24 filter, 2 Lumatek LK600's (went that route instead), 1 4" Ecoplus fan, 2 240v Intermatic timers, a Titan Apollo 12 timer, 1 Titan Zepher thermostat, and some confusion LOL.
I ordered the GrowLab 145 for the veg and a larger GrowLab 240 for the flower rooms (bigger than the 145L) which I will pick up on Wednesday along with 2 600w MH conversion bulbs by SunMaster, an 8 bulb and a 4 bulb T-5 HO...brand to be determined...they don't carry Quantum...considering New Wave.
That leaves the A/C unit, maybe a dehumidifier, ducting, a lot of incidentals, hanging adjustments, and a hole in my wallet LOL.
Again, thanks for all the help and I might give you a call later.


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## nuglets (May 14, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Well Nug, packed in my garage is:
> 2 600w Hortilux HPS, 2 YieldMaster II Supremes, 1 CanFan 6" HO, 1 Phresh 6x24 filter, 2 Lumatek LK600's (went that route instead), 1 4" Ecoplus fan, 2 240v Intermatic timers, a Titan Apollo 12 timer, 1 Titan Zepher thermostat, and some confusion LOL.
> I ordered the GrowLab 145 for the veg and a larger GrowLab 240 for the flower rooms (bigger than the 145L) which I will pick up on Wednesday along with 2 600w MH conversion bulbs by SunMaster, an 8 bulb and a 4 bulb T-5 HO...brand to be determined...they don't carry Quantum...considering New Wave.
> That leaves the A/C unit, maybe a dehumidifier, ducting, a lot of incidentals, hanging adjustments, and a hole in my wallet LOL.
> Again, thanks for all the help and I might give you a call later.


hey numsi, i'll be around. just hit me up.


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## polyarcturus (May 14, 2012)

didnt know i was getting knocked for my choice of pH. lol 6.2 has been the sweet spot for me i want GREEN leaves all the way to the end but in flower i pretty much stay at 6.0

i have pHed to 5.8 and hell even at 5.6 but i have encountered problems both ways and when i pH at 6.0-6.2 the pH seems to stay steady for longer

but hell yeah its just opinion i have had great results everybody's got a different style, and pH is realy relevant to your nutes too i use lower feed levels than most


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## Sencha (May 15, 2012)

Wow, this thread blew up. Where is phill?


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## hellraizer30 (May 15, 2012)

Sencha said:


> Wow, this thread blew up. Where is phill?


Phil has been banned!


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## Brother Numsi (May 15, 2012)

Hey nug,
Did some research, now your recommendation on a meter, please:
Hanna HI98150 4/7
Bluelab 2000E trencheon
Bluelab Blu2221
Hanna Grocheck combo
Blulab Blu 222031
Milwaukee SM802
Bluelab combo

I know some of these overlap and some are different. Guess I'm asking what I'll need...or what else do you think I'll need. Picking up the GrowLab 145, GrowLab 240, a T-5 system, and MH bulbs.


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## hellraizer30 (May 15, 2012)

Blue lab gaurdain ftw!


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## Brother Numsi (May 15, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Blue lab gaurdain ftw!


I looked at that one. You like it, huh? $211.37 out the door


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## hellraizer30 (May 15, 2012)

The gaurdain is closer to 300$ out the door and yep i like it thats why i have 3 of then


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## Brother Numsi (May 15, 2012)

I/ve been quoted that on it....plantlighting.com,,, ny bad...it was a differebt model:
http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/ph-combination-monitors-c-373_498.html

This is the one I saw:
http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/bluelab-combo-phectds-meter-p-1695.html


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## hellraizer30 (May 15, 2012)

Good price


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## Brother Numsi (May 15, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Good price


So the Guardian over the other one?


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## hellraizer30 (May 15, 2012)

Yep gaurdian kicks ass


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## chronicis (May 15, 2012)

New grower here... looking for some advice about my setup. 

I have a standard two car garage with no doors or windows to the outside, aside from the car door itself. I bought a 2'x4' grow tent to flower clones in, and placed it in my garage. I have a 6" exhaust (240 CFM in line fan) out of the grow tent, but it just exhausts into the garage space. Like i said, I have no exit to the outdoors to vent the exhaust, it simply vents up above the tent and off to the side, inside my garage. My temps are fine, but I am worried about maybe a lack of co2? I mean, I open the garage at least 2x per day (going to work, then coming home) so the garage does get fresh air, but with a few plants in there, will they suffocate with just ambient circulation? The garage is not air tight by any means, and of course I frequently open the door into the house when going into my garage 

Anyone think I have a problem with ventilation here? Thanks in advance, I appreciate any help and/or advice or experience with similar situations.


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## Sencha (May 16, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Phil has been banned!


What? Why?


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## Brother Numsi (May 16, 2012)

Hey Raizer and Nug I went with:
[h=1]Bluelab Combo pH-EC-TDS Meter
[222031][/h] $199.90

They didn't stock the Guardian at my local store that I made price match and this one should do nicely


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## bigsexyshaned (May 17, 2012)

Hey wondering if ya could help me out a little bit more. My last question had to do with humidity and now that I have gotten that under controlled I'm tackling the temp problems. My set up..
is a two tent (4x with two 600s in each tent. I'm using cool tubes with bat wings attached to them, that I purchased from htg. with the two lights going at 50 % in the one tent and the other lights completely off no intake fan on the temps were 110 when i got there today!!! I don't have the inline fans hooked up yet since I'm messing with wiring at the moment but I will be finished with that tomorow. 
So after all the ranting I guess my question is gonna be... how the hell am I gonna cool this. My exhaust setup was gonna be a 450 cfm inline pulling through a carbon filter and through both lights exhausted outside Im not sure how much this will help with the temps, I'm guessing quite alot but I think I'm going to have to buy an ac unit. The room that the tents are in is about 300 sq ft at the most. So what size ac should I buy and do you think i should have a separate exhaust fan hooked up to my lights then the filter? Sorry about all the questions also and thanks ahead of time!!!


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## nuglets (May 17, 2012)

also, ran that sunshine #4 at pH 5.9 for a week. that was a FAIL. saw major lockout on a few leaves. in the process of pushing her back to 6.3 - 6.6. gonna try and bump her a little higher and see what that does to the slight issues i've been seeing. also running more N with the nutes.


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## budleydoright (May 17, 2012)

> Originally Posted by *hellraizer30*
> Phil has been banned!
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe he was having a bad day when he got in that pissing match and posted pictures of dirty underwear! I bet that had something to do with it.
i really enjoyed Phil and his contribution here. I didn't always agree with him but always had nice dialog. Too bad. I didn't even know they did that here.

i can understand deleting an offensive post, but c'mon a ban is a bit harsh. Especially since there are few differences between us that can't be solved when we;re medicated.


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## nuglets (May 17, 2012)

budleydoright said:


> Maybe he was having a bad day when he got in that pissing match and posted pictures of dirty underwear! I bet that had something to do with it.
> i really enjoyed Phil and his contribution here. I didn't always agree with him but always had nice dialog. Too bad. I didn't even know they did that here.
> 
> i can understand deleting an offensive post, but c'mon a ban is a bit harsh. Especially since there are few differences between us that can't be solved when we;re medicated.


had nothing to do with dirty underwear. trust me. politics and jealousy. just saying that. check the facts. he just helped a guy who got raided and lost a bunch of his shit. got him a free ballast, nutes, additives, and can fan. all free. from his distributor. guy posted a thread thanking him. just saying thanks. admin erased it in within an hour. it waas in the toke and talk section. come on man. tell me that's not personal jealousy right there.


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## nuglets (May 17, 2012)

i think they banned the guy who wrote the thread too. lmao.


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## Sencha (May 18, 2012)

nuglets said:


> also, ran that sunshine #4 at pH 5.9 for a week. that was a FAIL. saw major lockout on a few leaves. in the process of pushing her back to 6.3 - 6.6. gonna try and bump her a little higher and see what that does to the slight issues i've been seeing. also running more N with the nutes.


I just scored some Advanced SM #4. I was hoping to run it around 6.0 along with my Botanicare Coco, for a little side by side testing. The Advanced SM is buffered with Dolomite Lime. Is the reg #4 not buffered?


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## dougoly (May 18, 2012)

Hi all, I'm new to the conversation but just finished using the sunshine mix #4. It works great for clones but I had the same lock out issues in flower. It does have dolomite in the mix but not enough to counter the peat in it breaking down. I started adding 2 tbsp/gal of dolomite when I transfered in to it and sometimes mixed in another on top 6-8 weeks in. That was for an eleven week strain though. I've just gone back to a localish mix called red wizard and am comparing the two. I have room design questions but I'm headed to work soon. Basically I'm looking for ideas on a room inside my garage. I'm thinking around 6x6 with a 4x4 flood table in the middle. 9 5 gallon pots and a 1000w over it. I already have a 2x4 tent for get and a clone cabinet. This is the first room I've built on my own so I'm looking for input.


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## dougoly (May 18, 2012)

Hi all, I'm new to the conversation but just finished using the sunshine mix #4. It works great for clones but I had the same lock out issues in flower. It does have dolomite in the mix but not enough to counter the peat in it breaking down. I started adding 2 tbsp/gal of dolomite when I transfered in to it and sometimes mixed in another on top 6-8 weeks in. That was for an eleven week strain though. I've just gone back to a localish mix called red wizard and am comparing the two. I have room design questions but I'm headed to work soon. Basically I'm looking for ideas on a room inside my garage. I'm thinking around 6x6 with a 4x4 flood table in the middle. 9 5 gallon pots and a 1000w over it. I already have a 2x4 tent for get and a clone cabinet. This is the first room I've built on my own so I'm looking for input.


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## Warlock1369 (May 18, 2012)

nuglets said:


> had nothing to do with dirty underwear. trust me. politics and jealousy. just saying that. check the facts. he just helped a guy who got raided and lost a bunch of his shit. got him a free ballast, nutes, additives, and can fan. all free. from his distributor. guy posted a thread thanking him. just saying thanks. admin erased it in within an hour. it waas in the toke and talk section. come on man. tell me that's not personal jealousy right there.


It didn't get deleted. Just locked. So there is no way to bump it up. And as fast as t&t moves it will be 100 pages back by the end of the weekend.


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## nuglets (May 18, 2012)

Sencha said:


> I just scored some Advanced SM #4. I was hoping to run it around 6.0 along with my Botanicare Coco, for a little side by side testing. The Advanced SM is buffered with Dolomite Lime. Is the reg #4 not buffered?


i don't know about regular sunshine. i've only ever used advanced #4. try out 6.3 first cause i just pushed mine down to 5.9 and got a ton of lockout. everyone else i have talked to is saying 6.3 is where it needs to be.


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## potroastV2 (May 18, 2012)

nuglets said:


> had nothing to do with dirty underwear. trust me. politics and jealousy. just saying that. check the facts. he just helped a guy who got raided and lost a bunch of his shit. got him a free ballast, nutes, additives, and can fan. all free. from his distributor. guy posted a thread thanking him. just saying thanks. admin erased it in within an hour. it waas in the toke and talk section. come on man. tell me that's not personal jealousy right there.



Well, when you talk about yourself like this, it is very entertaining! Since phillipchristian is another account of *yours*, and you are talking about *your account*, it really makes you look, oh I don't know, how about "pathetic."


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## nuglets (May 18, 2012)

rollitup said:


> Well, when you talk about yourself like this, it is very entertaining! Since phillipchristian is another account of yours, and you are talking about your account, it really makes you look, oh I don't know, how about "pathetic."


so far you have closed or claimed i have about 16 accounts. the list of names is mind boggling. you've closed threads claiming i was the person who started them. you've threatened me...posted nasty messages to me...and basically proven you don't know anything about growing...so you must just like starting smear campaigns. way to go buddy. PM's are flying about how shitty you run this site. even MODS are talking shit about you.


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## nuglets (May 18, 2012)

rollitup said:


> Well, when you talk about yourself like this, it is very entertaining! Since phillipchristian is another account of *yours*, and you are talking about *your account*, it really makes you look, oh I don't know, how about "pathetic."


i've got an idea...why not tell us about how you can SCROG 20 plants under a 4x6 screen so we can all have a laugh.


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## potroastV2 (May 18, 2012)

heehee, I've been growing pot since your mom was a girl.

I also love it when you quote me twice.

Rave on, young man! Like I said, our members love the entertainment.


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## 209 Cali closet grower (May 18, 2012)

So phillip is talking to him self??????


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## 209 Cali closet grower (May 18, 2012)

..........


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## nuglets (May 18, 2012)

rollitup said:


> heehee, I've been growing pot since your mom was a girl.
> 
> I also love it when you quote me twice.
> 
> Rave on, young man! Like I said, our members love the entertainment.


lmao...that's why you believe you can scrog 20 plants under a 4x6 screen? everyone disagreed with you and then you got mad and suspended me for 3 days. that is pathetic. on top of that you have threatened me, posted nasty comments about me on my rep wall, and accused me of being about 15 different members. the whole; i am this person or i am that person is getting old. i understand you though it may help add validity to your argument but now it just makes you look weak. you guys even shut down the thread in toke and talk just cause it had to do with phillipchristian cause a guy thanked him for getting him some free shit from his distributor. i find you comical and pathetic at the same time. unless you are 115 years old i doubt you have been growing since my mom was a girl. why not go back to the thread you started about me in the staff section and rant some more over there to those drinking your koolaid. or you could explain to people why it is you removed 2100 rep points from my account...were you upset with some of my comments? did the truth hurt? you just make too easy.


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## TheGreenHornet (May 21, 2012)

Hey Phillip! I hope this post finds you well.. I see you have switched to 'invisible' mode.. probably for the best but now I can't PM you anymore - add me to friends immediately!

I have been thinking quite a bit on your advice for redoing my ventilation, and you might have something there.. At the moment, however, I have just found a property that looks fairly suitable for my future garden and wanted some clarification on whether or not this breaker box looks worthy of my 3,600 watt gameplan. (+ miscellaneous fans & whatnot)



get back to me when you get a moment, and as always thanks for the help

-tgh


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## hellraizer30 (May 21, 2012)

Phillip has been banned and so has his many alt acounts to!


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## TheGreenHornet (May 21, 2012)

better pic I hope, or larger rather


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## TheGreenHornet (May 21, 2012)

wot wot?! phillip banned? ... what the fuk.. that guy was a charitable workhorse


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## phxrocks (May 22, 2012)

Sounds like you are going to need a good ac unit.
Minimum 12000 btu for a room that size.
If you have 2 inline fans, You can run 1 fan through your lights, and use another fan on to of a carbon filter standing upright.
The 1st fan will be strong enough to pull cool air through both lights, and you are filtering/recirculating the air inside the room with the 2nd.
I would set it up as sealed of a room as possible. Then you can think about some CO2 if you don't already have some.


bigsexyshaned said:


> Hey wondering if ya could help me out a little bit more. My last question had to do with humidity and now that I have gotten that under controlled I'm tackling the temp problems. My set up..
> is a two tent (4x with two 600s in each tent. I'm using cool tubes with bat wings attached to them, that I purchased from htg. with the two lights going at 50 % in the one tent and the other lights completely off no intake fan on the temps were 110 when i got there today!!! I don't have the inline fans hooked up yet since I'm messing with wiring at the moment but I will be finished with that tomorow.
> So after all the ranting I guess my question is gonna be... how the hell am I gonna cool this. My exhaust setup was gonna be a 450 cfm inline pulling through a carbon filter and through both lights exhausted outside Im not sure how much this will help with the temps, I'm guessing quite alot but I think I'm going to have to buy an ac unit. The room that the tents are in is about 300 sq ft at the most. So what size ac should I buy and do you think i should have a separate exhaust fan hooked up to my lights then the filter? Sorry about all the questions also and thanks ahead of time!!!


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## hellraizer30 (May 23, 2012)

Lol to funny aw yah reported


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (May 23, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Lol to funny aw yah reported


lol...check this post out. *https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/530844-hortilux-worth-2.html#post7470950
*
that's why i was so fired up.


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## hellraizer30 (May 23, 2012)

Yep seen that one to


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## kamie (May 23, 2012)

hey guys im upgrading my tent to a 4x8. Think i can get by with my old 6 in can 33 filter and ducting it through 2 blockbusters with 600w bulbs using a 6 in max fan?


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (May 23, 2012)

i think you'll be fine mr. kamie.


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## SimonD (May 23, 2012)

kamie said:


> hey guys im upgrading my tent to a 4x8. Think i can get by with my old 6 in can 33 filter and ducting it through 2 blockbusters with 600w bulbs using a 6 in max fan?


I'd strongly suggest upgrading to a Can50 or a Can66. Personally, I'd run a Can75. Why? Because I've done what you have planned. Good luck.

Simon


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (May 23, 2012)

the 33 is rated for 400cfm and the room is about 200cfm. the 6" max fan does like 250cfm. that is plenty to scrub the air in your room before you exhaust it. just my opinion.


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## Warlock1369 (May 24, 2012)

kamie said:


> hey guys im upgrading my tent to a 4x8. Think i can get by with my old 6 in can 33 filter and ducting it through 2 blockbusters with 600w bulbs using a 6 in max fan?


Think you will be fine like that. But would like to sugest upgrading to a higher cfm fan and a bigger filter. Not for the scrubbing but for larger air flow. The more and faster you can move air thru your lights the cool they will be. And what you have sounds like alot of restriction. But like I said think it will work.


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## SimonD (May 24, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> Think you will be fine like that. But would like to sugest upgrading to a higher cfm fan and a bigger filter. *Not for the scrubbing but for larger air flow.* The more and faster you can move air thru your lights the cool they will be. And what you have sounds like alot of restriction. But like I said think it will work.


Yes. In a setup such as the OP's, the filter almost always acts as the bottleneck. FWIW my veg room, similarly configured with 2x600HPS', runs 3-4F above ambient. In terms of odor control, depends on one's propensity to put his freedom on the line for a $200 filter. You'll have to excuse me on this one.

Simon


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (May 24, 2012)

SimonD said:


> Yes. In a setup such as the OP's, the filter almost always acts as the bottleneck. FWIW my veg room, similarly configured with 2x600HPS', runs 3-4F above ambient. In terms of odor control, depends on one's propensity to put his freedom on the line for a $200 filter. You'll have to excuse me on this one.
> 
> Simon


i think the difference is that kamie is in a tent and you are in a room. tents are much easier to filter air in. i run a CAN33 in both of my 4x8 flower tents and it's just fine. no odor whatsoever in my lung room.


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## Warlock1369 (May 24, 2012)

Just because someone has a different opinion then you your just gonna get pissed and start shit? That's childish. And even if someone never grew but knows what there talking about and answers the question right what's wrong with that? Not saying scooby hasn't grown. I don't know. But he is on point with what he says. Hell for that matter how do we know you grow? How do we know I grow? Grow photos are everywhere online.


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## TheGreenHornet (May 24, 2012)

[video=youtube;9TVz7MiFhAk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TVz7MiFhAk&amp;feature=related[/video]


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (May 24, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> Just because someone has a different opinion then you your just gonna get pissed and start shit? That's childish. And even if someone never grew but knows what there talking about and answers the question right what's wrong with that? Not saying scooby hasn't grown. I don't know. But he is on point with what he says. Hell for that matter how do we know you grow? How do we know I grow? Grow photos are everywhere online.


not even worth feeding the trolls man. they are like gremlins when you add water.


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## theexpress (May 24, 2012)

people been complaining... the back n forth shit between scoobie doo aka nuggletts and simond... could you guys please just calm it down? much appreciated..


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (May 24, 2012)

theexpress said:


> people been complaining... the back n forth shit between scoobie doo aka nuggletts and simond... could you guys please just calm it down? much appreciated..


pretty sure i'm not doing much of anything here but getting trolled by a picture ripper.


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## theexpress (May 24, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> pretty sure i'm not doing much of anything here but getting trolled by a picture ripper.


?
i could have sworn on my last post i said stop the back and forth...? all parties involved..


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (May 24, 2012)

i just think sometimes the MODS play it too safe man. take a look at the thread. i never started anything. guy doesn't even want me commenting in my own thread? even after he started flamming the shit out of me i still didn't respond in hostility like he did. so i don't see why you feel like you need to warn me when i didn't do shit but give an opinion.


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## hellraizer30 (May 24, 2012)

Dude put him on ignore, problem solved


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (May 24, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Dude put him on ignore, problem solved


fair enough hellraizer. i hear what your saying and you are right. sometimes though when someone constantly trolls the shit outta you for 5 months straight it get's annoying as hell. i'm all for turning the other cheek but after a while enough is enough. especially when someone follows you to every thread including your own with the sole intention of starting shit. he's on ignore but i think he needs to find a more constructive way to spend his time rather than following me around just to try and insult me and tell lies.


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## theexpress (May 24, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> i just think sometimes the MODS play it too safe man. take a look at the thread. i never started anything. guy doesn't even want me commenting in my own thread? even after he started flamming the shit out of me i still didn't respond in hostility like he did. so i don't see why you feel like you need to warn me when i didn't do shit but give an opinion.



you just wont let it die.. then pm me complaining.. simond stopped.. so should you.. put each other on ignore or something.. if you like it here nuggs then follow the rules.. there not soo bad.. this is the most leniant site you can comne to... but dont take advantage of it and make the site look ugly.. just let it go...


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## theexpress (May 24, 2012)

yall have a nice day.. be good nuggletts... and everyone else to.. much love..


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jun 2, 2012)

So how effective is a carbon scrubber in a sealed room. No intake/exhaust. 
I'm wondering if I can attach a nice quiet fan to a carbon scrubber, and place it in my grow room. My room is simply a 2'x3'x8' closet


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 2, 2012)

KidneyStoner420 said:


> So how effective is a carbon scrubber in a sealed room. No intake/exhaust.
> I'm wondering if I can attach a nice quiet fan to a carbon scrubber, and place it in my grow room. My room is simply a 2'x3'x8' closet


i'd get a 4" fan and CAN33 filter and hang it from the ceiling. carbon filter work great for scrubbing odor from the air. i use them in all of my sealed rooms.


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## Brother Numsi (Jun 4, 2012)

Scooby...we need to invent a Troll scrubber LOL. On a more serious note I noticed a product called Hercules. Do you know anything about it? I could probably build a strong structure for the GL240 tent to hang the heavy stuff on like the Phresh filter...kinda heavy. I figure the tent structure should hold the two MH/HPS reflectors and the two reflectors that'll hold the 250w veg CFL.
Thanks!


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 4, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Scooby...we need to invent a Troll scrubber LOL. On a more serious note I noticed a product called Hercules. Do you know anything about it? I could probably build a strong structure for the GL240 tent to hang the heavy stuff on like the Phresh filter...kinda heavy. I figure the tent structure should hold the two MH/HPS reflectors and the two reflectors that'll hold the 250w veg CFL.
> Thanks!


ordered some of those for my tents a few weeks back. lol. my tent has no problem holding you 2 magnum xxxl hoods, 6 uv bulbs and domes, as well as a CAN33 filter. i don't think you'll "need" them but if you have the extra money then i do think they are a cool way to make your tent much more sturdy.


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## Brother Numsi (Jun 5, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> ordered some of those for my tents a few weeks back. lol. my tent has no problem holding you 2 magnum xxxl hoods, 6 uv bulbs and domes, as well as a CAN33 filter. i don't think you'll "need" them but if you have the extra money then i do think they are a cool way to make your tent much more sturdy.


I ordered 1 set today for the GL240. I'm glad I have *a lot* of lead time on this project. I'll need to ask some questions if I decide to try something a bit different. Right now I plan to LST...just not sure how many I can comfortably get in the 240...that's why I originally thought only 6 plants. I haven't done the research yet, but do you transplant an LST'd plant the same way any plant? How do you deal with all the tie downs? I probably should just hit you up LOL.
Thanks.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 5, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> I ordered 1 set today for the GL240. I'm glad I have *a lot* of lead time on this project. I'll need to ask some questions if I decide to try something a bit different. Right now I plan to LST...just not sure how many I can comfortably get in the 240...that's why I originally thought only 6 plants. I haven't done the research yet, but do you transplant an LST'd plant the same way any plant? How do you deal with all the tie downs? I probably should just hit you up LOL.
> Thanks.


just IM me anytime. i have it on my phone so i can usually get back to you pretty quickly. lol.

i think you are gonna need more than 1 set for that 240 tent. i'm pretty sure you are gonna need another 2-3 sets. maybe not. when i bought them i needed 3 sets for a 120L tent. they were around $85 a piece i think. 

i don't tie my plants to the pot or anything when i lst. i use little stakes that i make out of galvanized wire. i just use some pliers to make a hook in it and then stake them into the soil. when i transplant i take all of the stakes out and then transplant. usually within 2 days i'll start staking them down again.


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## Brother Numsi (Jun 5, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> just IM me anytime. i have it on my phone so i can usually get back to you pretty quickly. lol.
> 
> i think you are gonna need more than 1 set for that 240 tent. i'm pretty sure you are gonna need another 2-3 sets. maybe not. when i bought them i needed 3 sets for a 120L tent. they were around $85 a piece i think.
> 
> i don't tie my plants to the pot or anything when i lst. i use little stakes that i make out of galvanized wire. i just use some pliers to make a hook in it and then stake them into the soil. when i transplant i take all of the stakes out and then transplant. usually within 2 days i'll start staking them down again.


Yeah I paid $71+ and shipping. I figured I could get away with 1 set if I just put the 2 reflectors, bulbs, and filter on it. I'm sure the structure will hold the 2 CFL and reflectors plus any fan(s) I have in there. Again, I guess it depends on what I really end up doing in the 240. The 145 should hold the 2 T5 systems OK.
Thanks again.


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## wheels619 (Jun 12, 2012)

hey im trying to build a bedroom. do u guys have any pics of ur setups? just kinda as reference? i got 2 thousands a couple xxxl hoods all the fans and stuff needed inline and wall fans not to mention a 400 already for the veg. and a separate tent to lightproof the veg stuff. i just really need a few ideas on how to set up tables or some kind of watering system in the room so i dont have to drag them outside like im doing now.  cuz carrying plants sucks for me cuz of my back not to mention carrying a big ass plant thru my house. lol. im in coco now and would like to eventually add a few more 1000s and another 400. but need to figure out a nice affordable watering/feeding system.


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## wheels619 (Jun 12, 2012)

and on a side note. ive already checked a lot of the show off ur grow room threads but they arent the size im loking for mostly one-two light setups.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 13, 2012)

wheels619 said:


> hey im trying to build a bedroom. do u guys have any pics of ur setups? just kinda as reference? i got 2 thousands a couple xxxl hoods all the fans and stuff needed inline and wall fans not to mention a 400 already for the veg. and a separate tent to lightproof the veg stuff. i just really need a few ideas on how to set up tables or some kind of watering system in the room so i dont have to drag them outside like im doing now.  cuz carrying plants sucks for me cuz of my back not to mention carrying a big ass plant thru my house. lol. im in coco now and would like to eventually add a few more 1000s and another 400. but need to figure out a nice affordable watering/feeding system.


easiest way to water plants in soil or coco is to set them up on flood trays. tilt the trays slightly to one side and put a drain in. then attach a drip stake system to all of the pots. then when you have to water just bring in a reservoir, mix your nutes, hook the drip stakes up to a pump and drop it in your res. then if you have any runoff it will pour out of the drain hole on the tray and into a bucket or something.


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## Yoghi (Jun 17, 2012)

Hey, was going to run 16 600w cooltubes, in two rows of eight. would it be best to have a carbon filter at the start of each row, 4 cooltubes with duct inbetween, fan, then another 4 cooltubes with duct inbetween then fan? Using this method I would then have another two carbon filters and extractors removing the air from the room into a void underneath the house, with passive intake from the outside through air bricks.
The room is 9m(L) x 4.5m(W) x2m(H) and is for flowering only as I would have a seperate veg room. Just wondered if this was a reasonable setup?
Thanks in advance!


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 17, 2012)

i've never used cooltubes before but aren't they designed to be closed loop? i think the best idea would be to pull air from outside of the room through the cooltubes and exhaust it back outside of the room. then just buy 1 carbon filter and recirculate the air in the room through that. for the cooltubes you probably could use 1 fan per row. just use a high output oversized fan. if they are 8" cooltubes then use a 12" high output fan and connect it with duct reducers. then on the exhaust side of the fan just use 12" ducting.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 17, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> i've never used cooltubes before but aren't they designed to be closed loop? i think the best idea would be to pull air from outside of the room through the cooltubes and exhaust it back outside of the room. then just buy 1 carbon filter and recirculate the air in the room through that. for the cooltubes you probably could use 1 fan per row. just use a high output oversized fan. if they are 8" cooltubes then use a 12" high output fan and connect it with duct reducers. then on the exhaust side of the fan just use 12" ducting.


Cooltubes work just as you said, although you can use it in other ways. If your thinking cooltubes get the 8in ones


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 17, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Cooltubes work just as you said, although you can use it in other ways. If your thinking cooltubes get the 8in ones


hey hellraizer. how's it going? 

what's the "advantage" to cooltubes? i mean, a sealed hood will give you a better light distribution won't it? i've never even looked into cooltubes before. can you keep them cooler than regular hoods?


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 17, 2012)

Yah in all the hoods i have use cool tubes have been the beast for cooling lights. Although they dont spread light out
aswell as some of the higher priced hoods. A hood i realy want to try is a melon head, its basic structure is a cool tube
with a hood over it. Look into them befor geting a cooltube.

Things have been good, lots of fishing so much so i still feel like im on the water, and the waves are hiting my bed lol


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## Yoghi (Jun 17, 2012)

Thanks guys, 
I am not sure about the diameter of the cooltubes yet, was thinking if I use 8" ones then I might have height issues, but I have read you can get them closer to the plants, so might not be an issue after all.
Thanks again


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 17, 2012)

Yoghi said:


> Thanks guys,
> I am not sure about the diameter of the cooltubes yet, was thinking if I use 8" ones then I might have height issues, but I have read you can get them closer to the plants, so might not be an issue after all.
> Thanks again


if you are gonna have rows of 8 lights then you will need to use 8" if not bigger. you need to move a lot of air through them. i don't think 1-2" is gonna make a difference in plant height.


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## Kush2180 (Jun 17, 2012)

I am currently using a cool tube but will be buying an adjust a wing very shortly

I would advise against getting a cool tube unless heat is a massive issue that you can't solve other ways. Because of the shape of the glass it decreases the amount of light that reaches the plant, the reflector is very poorly shaped so light dispersion is very bad, it doesn't cover a very big area either. 

I have found that if you have a normal reflector, put the ducting from your fan inline with the bulb facing it. That way it draws the hot air directly from the bulb and also exhausts the room at the same time.

Or you could use an air cooled hood with a proper reflector, the big square ones.

In summary cool tubes really aren't that great, i regret ever buying one.

Just my 2 cents


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## Yoghi (Jun 19, 2012)

Thanks for the info people!, We cant seem to buy Melon Heads in the UK yet, but I will keep researching!


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jun 19, 2012)

Yeah, I run a batwing reflector with a 250. My closet was getting over 90* on a hot day. I built my own cooltube and fit it to my batwing last weekend. The hottest I have seen thus far is 82*.

Well worth a $25 investment in my opinion.


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## NINO313 (Jun 19, 2012)

Whats up bro need help with a set up i already have 5 1000w lights 400w t5 and a 150 site cloning doing dwc 5 gal buckets trying to get the most out of my space can you help?


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 25, 2012)

NINO313 said:


> Whats up bro need help with a set up i already have 5 1000w lights 400w t5 and a 150 site cloning doing dwc 5 gal buckets trying to get the most out of my space can you help?


what are trying to do with that space? do you want to use it all for flowering? or do you want to split it up into a veg space and flowering space. need more info bro. like windows and doors. style of grow. size of flowering plants, etc...


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## lvtokerr (Jun 28, 2012)

Do you have any larger greenhouse floorplans?


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## Noalias1 (Jul 4, 2012)

need help with this, would this work?


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jul 4, 2012)

little confusing to see what's going on there but it looks like it would work. it looks like you are doing a lot of plants. is it a SOG grow? you might need more room for mothers then. you are gonna need quite a few.


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## Noalias1 (Jul 4, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> little confusing to see what's going on there but it looks like it would work. it looks like you are doing a lot of plants. is it a SOG grow? you might need more room for mothers then. you are gonna need quite a few.


i dont think sog is for me, i want 4 to 5 foot plants the first pic was an old room lay out, the second pic has the dimensions 

i want use this http://wholesale.cch2o.com//index.php?main_page=index&cPath=31 for my hydro system

i need to keep up with a 6 pound a month demand


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Noalias1 said:


> i dont think sog is for me, i want 4 to 5 foot plants the first pic was an old room lay out, the second pic has the dimensions
> 
> i want use this http://wholesale.cch2o.com//index.php?main_page=index&cPath=31 for my hydro system
> 
> i need to keep up with a 6 pound a month demand


i amtesting out one of their systems right now. it's fucking awesome. you had better have some high ceilings and a chiller. what size sytem are you looking at? my guess is you are gonna need 2 16 site systems if you wanna pull that kind of weight every month. probably be better off with an 18 or 20 site system. pulling 6 ounces off 4'-5' plants might be stretching it in the beginning. takes a minute to get used to those systems. you run half the nutes as most other hydro setups. plus they are tricky to get dialed in.

looks like you have the room against the 30' wall to place 2 of those systems. gonna need a big ass chiller though. maybe 2 or 3hp commercial.


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## Noalias1 (Jul 5, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> i amtesting out one of their systems right now. it's fucking awesome. you had better have some high ceilings and a chiller. what size sytem are you looking at? my guess is you are gonna need 2 16 site systems if you wanna pull that kind of weight every month. probably be better off with an 18 or 20 site system. pulling 6 ounces off 4'-5' plants might be stretching it in the beginning. takes a minute to get used to those systems. you run half the nutes as most other hydro setups. plus they are tricky to get dialed in.
> 
> looks like you have the room against the 30' wall to place 2 of those systems. gonna need a big ass chiller though. maybe 2 or 3hp commercial.


thanks for the input i posted a thread yesterday with my room requirements, ive grown organ veggies before for a local produce shop, growing weeds has to be easier! if stoners can do it, i mean cmon... lol jking check out my thread any input would be best. 

Are you familiar with automated systems that will release the nutes top off water and adjust ph automatically, i want this to be a standalone system. 

as for pulling 6 oz off each plant is stretching it i dontt hinks so, with 2 16 sites i only need to pull 3ozs off each plant to achieve 6 lb's a month i think i can do it if i can make the room. 

The systems sold by these people show 18 inch centers to the plants. i think if i cut down the 2 inch pipe i can squeeze in some more room.

As for the chiller part my house is run on a 5 ton geothermal heat exchanger i dont use the desuperheater so i have an extra tonage of heat that the furnace is over built for my size of house, in the summer months i can run basically a worm like how moonshiners chill down the moonshine( i used to make 190 proof in one run with my reflux fractionating still, still have it if anyone is interested in how to make them) so chilling wont be a problem, in the winter months same thing switch the lines to the what comes out after passing through my furnace and that water is below 50 degrees and will chill my shit out!

Im also investing in solar power to keep my hydro bills down, 6 pounds at 1200 each is 7200, after taxes and costs ill be lucky to have half of that, living off 3k a month sucks id like to aim for 4-5 oz's a plant

anyways check my thread out


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## jakeman12 (Jul 5, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Well, this really sucks. Lost all of that great info that was posted on this thread and have to start it over again. Complete waste. Anyway, to all of those who had questions or floorplans up on here just let me know and I will repost them. Be specific as to which was yours as I have them all saved. Here you go Phishtank. This is the one we hae been working on.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2070632


Thanks for the helpful post and pic. That is almost the exact dimensions and amount of plants that I plan to grow. I have a few questions. Are the lights you show air cooled and the arrows with the fan at the end , is that pulling air through the light hoods? If so, where do they vent? If they are vented out of the room, could you have both of them meet and vent out a single vent. About your A/C, I was planning on getting a 24,000 btu mini split. Would this be enough to keep the room cool enough with the 8x600w lights? Also what is the total amount of watts this room is using, not counting the veg room. I was planning on using just one room and switching from mh in veg to hps to flower. I have a 40 plant limit on my grow licence (want to do a SCROG) and a 70 amp limit on my power. I will be using as much 240v as possible to maximize my power. Might be possible to get 100 amps, but not sure so I can only count on 70. I am going to be growing in dirt for my first few grows.This is my first grow and any help on ths type of set up would be much appreciated. Pot size? dirt type?, nutrients? feeding method?? Thank you


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## calibear916 (Jul 7, 2012)

hey @phillipchristian i had a question. i am venting my 6000 watt lights in a sealed and insulated 15 x 20 garage through the addict and out of the house. i have my mother plants in a tent inside the house so that is not an issue but plan on having a veg room along side the flower room in the garage. i wanted to create a box on the roof between each of the rooms that runs all the heat from all of the lights through the ducting into the box which will be pulled into the addict using a 10 inch fan and is then dispersed out of the house. what do you think about this plan and how many btu's will i need when choosing an AC unit?


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jul 7, 2012)

calibear916 said:


> hey @phillipchristian i had a question. i am venting my 6000 watt lights in a sealed and insulated 15 x 20 garage through the *addict* and out of the house. i have my mother plants in a tent inside the house so that is not an issue but plan on having a veg room along side the flower room in the garage. i wanted to create a box on the roof between each of the rooms that runs all the heat from all of the lights through the ducting into the box which will be pulled into the *addict *using a 10 inch fan and is then dispersed out of the house. what do you think about this plan and how many btu's will i need when choosing an AC unit?



Addict: Someone who is physiologically dependent on a substance; abrupt deprivation of 
the substance produces withdrawal symptoms

Attic: Floor consisting of open space at the top of a house just below roof; often 
used for storage


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## calibear916 (Jul 8, 2012)

kidneystoner420 right on brotha thank you!


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## potroastV2 (Jul 8, 2012)

KidneyStoner420 said:


> Attic: Floor consisting of open space at the top of a house just below roof; often
> used for storage* and growing pot!*



Fixed it for ya.


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## sky rocket (Jul 8, 2012)

Much appreciated for this thread. I'll make mine simple and easy.

1. I'm going to buy a secret jardin tent dark room pro dr300w II (120"x60"x80")along with a portable digital ac 14,000 btu wich will be inside the tent wich has tubing to vent the hot air outside the tent.

2. I have two xxxl 8" magnum 1000 watters with 592cfm can pulling the air out from one end of the tent to the other outside of the tent.

3. Inside I'll have a fan, dehumidifier,a/c, and carbon scrubber because I want to use co2.

4. Going to do a sog with about 120 2L bottles wich has a foot print of 4 bottles per sq ft.

5. It will grown inside a bedroom. The co2 I was going to use is. C.a.p. ppm-4 co2 monitor/controller.

My question is what size scrubber should I use and since I have space available on the floor should I put it on the floor or hang it?
Also I'm going to have the a/c hot hose venting out of the tent to a window could I just have the air cool light venting out of the tent in the room? Thanks


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## mike91sr (Jul 8, 2012)

I would hang the filter. Hot air rises, youll be better off pulling from up there. I have 2x600 and a 1000 on an 8" fan, mostly 6" ducting due to the 600 hoods, and my temps dropped ~2 degrees when I lifted my filter off the ground and hung it. 

I vent 2 tents into the bedroom which has ac in it. It works but its not the most efficient since youre cooling more space than required. Also, it would be better to vent completely elsewhere, since you're forcing the ac to cool hot air, instead of just getting rid of it at a much lower cost. I'm going to be running my exhaust through my ceiling within a couple days to see how drastic the improvement is.

You wont be very efficient with co2 in a tent. They're far from sealed.


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## sky rocket (Jul 8, 2012)

mike91sr said:


> I would hang the filter. Hot air rises, youll be better off pulling from up there. I have 2x600 and a 1000 on an 8" fan, mostly 6" ducting due to the 600 hoods, and my temps dropped ~2 degrees when I lifted my filter off the ground and hung it.
> 
> I vent 2 tents into the bedroom which has ac in it. It works but its not the most efficient since youre cooling more space than required. Also, it would be better to vent completely elsewhere, since you're forcing the ac to cool hot air, instead of just getting rid of it at a much lower cost. I'm going to be running my exhaust through my ceiling within a couple days to see how drastic the improvement is.
> 
> You wont be very efficient with co2 in a tent. They're far from sealed.



Thanks mike for the quick response.


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## Brother Numsi (Jul 10, 2012)

sky rocket said:


> Much appreciated for this thread. I'll make mine simple and easy.
> 
> 1. I'm going to buy a secret jardin tent dark room pro dr300w II (120"x60"x80")along with a portable digital ac 14,000 btu wich will be inside the tent wich has tubing to vent the hot air outside the tent.
> 
> ...


I bought a set of Hercules supports for my GL240...not sure if they make any for the 300, but you might want to look into it:
http://www.monstergardens.com/monster-store.html?page=shop.product_details&product_id=1413&flypage=flypage-vmshopgreen.tpl&pop=0
The extra support helps with the overall support of the tent and for hanging heavy things.....


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## smokingbluntsadailyroutin (Jul 10, 2012)

how much is the bill if u use hydroponic lights in ur room to grow weed?


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## sky rocket (Jul 14, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> I bought a set of Hercules supports for my GL240...not sure if they make any for the 300, but you might want to look into it:
> http://www.monstergardens.com/monster-store.html?page=shop.product_details&product_id=1413&flypage=flypage-vmshopgreen.tpl&pop=0
> The extra support helps with the overall support of the tent and for hanging heavy things.....


Thanks brother numsi. I'll email monster gardens to see if the bars are compatible with the secret jardin tents.


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## sky rocket (Jul 15, 2012)

sky rocket said:


> Thanks brother numsi. I'll email monster gardens to see if the bars are compatible with the secret jardin tents.


No need to. I just found a new tent company that allows you to hang up to 300 lbs (that you don't really need to) and it's height adjustable. Wich is something new in the tent industry. It's gorilla grow tents.


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## NINO313 (Jul 15, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> what are trying to do with that space? do you want to use it all for flowering? or do you want to split it up into a veg space and flowering space. need more info bro. like windows and doors. style of grow. size of flowering plants, etc...


im doing dwc i want to try veg/flower and about 2-3 oz a plant its 5 blocked windows and what would you do with this space also


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## Brother Numsi (Jul 15, 2012)

sky rocket said:


> No need to. I just found a new tent company that allows you to hang up to 300 lbs (that you don't really need to) and it's height adjustable. Wich is something new in the tent industry. It's gorilla grow tents.


Yeah they look great!! I like the anti-infrared ceiling, but the weight may be a bit much with steel poles...grew up camping with a steel-poled tent, but then again, if you only put it up once then it's not too bad. How much for what you ordered?


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## sky rocket (Jul 21, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> Yeah they look great!! I like the anti-infrared ceiling, but the weight may be a bit much with steel poles...grew up camping with a steel-poled tent, but then again, if you only put it up once then it's not too bad. How much for what you ordered?


I didn't order it yet but a 5x9 tent with an adjustable height to 12 ft is $700.


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## Liphted (Feb 17, 2013)

Still out there? I'm putting together a 4x1000 watt room. I am trying to decide whether to use the "exhausting method" or the "scrubbing method" as described by this site: http://www.sea-of-green.com/hydro/ventilation-sizing-carbon-filter/#comment-1022.

Here's the issue. I'm in Arizona, so cooling is going to be an issue. I plan to have an AC unit in the room and hate the idea of venting the air that I just paid to cool. However, if I seal the room and pull air from the attic to vent the lights, am I going to run into problems in the summer when the air temp in the attic is already 120+? 

Any thoughts are much appreciated


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## wheels619 (Feb 17, 2013)

Liphted said:


> Still out there? I'm putting together a 4x1000 watt room. I am trying to decide whether to use the "exhausting method" or the "scrubbing method" as described by this site: http://www.sea-of-green.com/hydro/ventilation-sizing-carbon-filter/#comment-1022.
> 
> Here's the issue. I'm in Arizona, so cooling is going to be an issue. I plan to have an AC unit in the room and hate the idea of venting the air that I just paid to cool. However, if I seal the room and pull air from the attic to vent the lights, am I going to run into problems in the summer when the air temp in the attic is already 120+?
> 
> Any thoughts are much appreciated


your going to have to run ac in az. you may want to run a closed loop lighting system. fresh air from outside the grow tent or area blowing thru the lights and back out of the tent or space. also you will need a carbon filter and fan for the air circulation of the tent itself. also id run in 50 amps of 220 unless you are eliminating a veg area. then you can run 30 amps and still use 120 for the ac. just remember to calculate the total amount of power your going to use before hand. id say at least 30 amps of 240 and 20 amps pf 120. to be safe to power everything.


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## Liphted (Feb 17, 2013)

Thanks Wheels. I hugely appreciate you weighing in! The electrician made up a game plan this morning and I'll pass your thoughts on to him. Truth is, electrical talk is still Mandarin to me - time to learn I guess. That's part of what I love about this - always learning something new!

It's a 12 X 12 room - no tent. I'll veg in the adjoining closet. 

A closed loop definitely makes the most sense to me too. Do you have any thoughts on trying to cool hoods with air that is already 120 F? The only available intake in this space will be from the attic unless I want to pull air from another place in the house in and vent it to the attic. I'm not sure that the circumstances will allow for that, and again, it pains me to vent air that has been $ cooled. But do I have a choice? Electric bills can get gnarly down here May-September. 

Any desert growers out there that have vented with attic intake?


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## menuink (Feb 20, 2013)

Been looking at your work and I'm impressed with your ideas. Well done! 

I have a space 80x100.... how would you propose it best be set up? It's completely open so we have the opportunity to build out seperate rooms within. No equipment purchased just yet so all options are on the table.

Could you provide a design and "wish list" of equipment? Your help is greatly appreciated so thank you in advance!

What do you think?


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## wheels619 (Feb 20, 2013)

menuink said:


> Been looking at your work and I'm impressed with your ideas. Well done!
> 
> I have a space 80x100.... how would you propose it best be set up? It's completely open so we have the opportunity to build out seperate rooms within. No equipment purchased just yet so all options are on the table.
> 
> ...


inches? ft? cuz ft would be bad ass. lmao. how many lights are you wanting to run? wattages? ac? dehumidifier? co2? ozone or filter scrubber? veg or flower or both? lots of stuff to consider? 120 volt or 240? running power or using existing? give me a few hints on what you are looking for and i can recommend a few things.


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## wheels619 (Feb 20, 2013)

Liphted said:


> Thanks Wheels. I hugely appreciate you weighing in! The electrician made up a game plan this morning and I'll pass your thoughts on to him. Truth is, electrical talk is still Mandarin to me - time to learn I guess. That's part of what I love about this - always learning something new!
> 
> It's a 12 X 12 room - no tent. I'll veg in the adjoining closet.
> 
> ...


they sell hood covers that are kinda like fire blankets made to fit specific hoods. they work really well to keep the heat inside the hoods for the air to suck out and not radiating heat to the whole room also insulated ducting. ac is a must also. closed loop. sorry i havent gotten back. been really busy.


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## menuink (Feb 21, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> inches? ft? cuz ft would be bad ass. lmao. how many lights are you wanting to run? wattages? ac? dehumidifier? co2? ozone or filter scrubber? veg or flower or both? lots of stuff to consider? 120 volt or 240? running power or using existing? give me a few hints on what you are looking for and i can recommend a few things.


hahah... 80x100 inches... not! They're all Feet! This is actually 1 of 3 spaces that I have available, so I'm setting up in the smallest one first and we'll see how business progresses from there. 

My thoughts are to have: 4 Flowering and 2 Veg Rooms, mother room, cloning room, one (or two) small "Testing rooms" to trial run various lights and strains before going into the primary grow areas and a drying room. I'd like to run 4-6 strains, one or two very high yieldling strains that are dominant Sativa, then two Sativas, and one Indica.

Im still debating the way we'll grow... using a soil, hydro (and what type of hydro) or aero. I'd love opinions on the single best way, or mix of ways... 

Lighting... I do want to max out this grow (and space) but don't want to exceed what is necessary. My plan is to mix lights to provide a solid spectrum and to include vertical lighting to minimize shadows. (Of course I would prefer to minimize the power footprint as much as possible...) Flourescents in the cloning room and green service lighting in each grow room.

Wattages... whatever works best for the space and I'll run power so I have 240 and 120 available.

AC... I would like to keep it simple.

Dehumidifiers, yes.

I figure that each room will need intakes and exhausts, CO2 burners and scrubbers for the air intake and exhaust. Wireless Humidity and temperature controls... 

I have to be missing something here I'm sure but in the meantime, thanks for your assist. So very cool of you. (sorry for the repost, just getting used to this)


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## wheels619 (Feb 22, 2013)

menuink said:


> hahah... 80x100 inches... not! They're all Feet! This is actually 1 of 3 spaces that I have available, so I'm setting up in the smallest one first and we'll see how business progresses from there.
> 
> My thoughts are to have: 4 Flowering and 2 Veg Rooms, mother room, cloning room, one (or two) small "Testing rooms" to trial run various lights and strains before going into the primary grow areas and a drying room. I'd like to run 4-6 strains, one or two very high yieldling strains that are dominant Sativa, then two Sativas, and one Indica.
> 
> ...


hmm. give me a minute to get high and put a little thought into this one. lol. so basically your asking me how i would build my dream warehouse? lmao. i love this kinda homework. lol. ill think about some stuff today while im gardening and watering the girls and taking cuts.  be on later to give you an idea.


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## menuink (Feb 23, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> hmm. give me a minute to get high and put a little thought into this one. lol. so basically your asking me how i would build my dream warehouse? lmao. i love this kinda homework. lol. ill think about some stuff today while im gardening and watering the girls and taking cuts.  be on later to give you an idea.


Take your time, please! I'm looking forward to your thoughts!


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## wheels619 (Feb 23, 2013)

menuink said:


> Take your time, please! I'm looking forward to your thoughts!


bahhahahahahaha


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## wheels619 (Feb 23, 2013)

wait what kind of price range am i looking at?


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## menuink (Feb 23, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> wait what kind of price range am i looking at?


Lets say that I have a budget of 100k, more is available but I like round numbers!


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## wheels619 (Feb 24, 2013)

BALLLIN. lol. ill see what i can do. are you wanting just an equipment list or the full shenanigans?


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## chuck estevez (Feb 24, 2013)

menuink said:


> hahah... 80x100 inches... not! They're all Feet! This is actually 1 of 3 spaces that I have available, so I'm setting up in the smallest one first and we'll see how business progresses from there.
> 
> My thoughts are to have: 4 Flowering and 2 Veg Rooms, mother room, cloning room, one (or two) small "Testing rooms" to trial run various lights and strains before going into the primary grow areas and a drying room. I'd like to run 4-6 strains, one or two very high yieldling strains that are dominant Sativa, then two Sativas, and one Indica.
> 
> ...


 you seal it up and run co2, or run intake and exhaust. not both.


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## wheels619 (Feb 24, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> you seal it up and run co2, or run intake and exhaust. not both.


um he has to to exhaust the lights smart guy. he lives in az where temps reach 120 degrees in summer. you have a better idea than a closed loop exhaust for the lights? cuz im all ears? also exhaust and excess heat may need to be vented so exhaust may actually be needed in some cases for exhausting heat. depends on your setup tbh and how you set it up.


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## chuck estevez (Feb 24, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> um he has to to exhaust the lights smart guy. he lives in az where temps reach 120 degrees in summer. you have a better idea than a closed loop exhaust for the lights? cuz im all ears? also exhaust and excess heat may need to be vented so exhaust may actually be needed in some cases for exhausting heat. depends on your setup tbh and how you set it up.


 open bulbs with an mini-split a/c and run the lights at night,not so smart guy.


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## menuink (Feb 24, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> BALLLIN. lol. ill see what i can do. are you wanting just an equipment list or the full shenanigans?


Well the full shenanigans of course!! If you're gonna go in, go balls deep, right?

Haha...


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## menuink (Feb 24, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> um he has to to exhaust the lights smart guy. he lives in az where temps reach 120 degrees in summer. you have a better idea than a closed loop exhaust for the lights? cuz im all ears? also exhaust and excess heat may need to be vented so exhaust may actually be needed in some cases for exhausting heat. depends on your setup tbh and how you set it up.


Actually, I live in Washington, but this particular space will be located east of the mountains where power is cheap but summer temps can exceed 100... on an 18/6 grow cycle I think it best to exhaust cause I would feel more comfortable with a set up that allows for me to control the environment... 

In the future, I'll look to set up to find a way to use and reclaim exhausted heat, water (if possible) and also set up solar panels and batteries for power.

(where'd you get AZ? I need to fix that).

Thank you both good sir's for your input. The more constructive dialogue the better the set up will be I'm sure!!


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## chuck estevez (Feb 24, 2013)

menuink said:


> Actually, I live in Washington, but this particular space will be located east of the mountains where power is cheap but summer temps can exceed 100... on an 18/6 grow cycle I think it best to exhaust cause I would feel more comfortable with a set up that allows for me to control the environment...
> 
> In the future, I'll look to set up to find a way to use and reclaim exhausted heat, water (if possible) and also set up solar panels and batteries for power.
> 
> ...


 That's what I'm trying to tell you. If you seal the room up and run a simple gull wing reflector, not air cooled, but open. Install a mini split a/c,supply co2 and a dehumidifier. Now you control all portions of the environment.


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## menuink (Feb 24, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> That's what I'm trying to tell you. If you seal the room up and run a simple gull wing reflector, not air cooled, but open. Install a mini split a/c,supply co2 and a dehumidifier. Now you control all portions of the environment.


But would this work for over 8000 square feet though? I don't think anything "Mini A/C" would support that much light wattage and keep the environment at an optimal temperature. I would think that the cost of air cooled lighting and exhaust would be far more cost effecient than dropping A/C tonnage into the facility. 

Thoughts?


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## chuck estevez (Feb 24, 2013)

menuink said:


> But would this work for over 8000 square feet though? I don't think anything "Mini A/C" would support that much light wattage and keep the environment at an optimal temperature. I would think that the cost of air cooled lighting and exhaust would be far more cost effecient than dropping A/C tonnage into the facility.
> 
> Thoughts?


 that's a huge place. You would have to get some 5 ton a/c units going in there with some zone dampening to pull it off. I have a friend who runs his warehouses like that, but none of his are 8000 sqft.


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## wheels619 (Feb 24, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> open bulbs with an mini-split a/c and run the lights at night,not so smart guy.


 mmm. so your a bare bulb guy huh. gotcha. id still have the hoods exhausted since its still 90 degrees mid summer even in the middle of the night. but hey its whateva.


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## wheels619 (Feb 24, 2013)

menuink said:


> Actually, I live in Washington, but this particular space will be located east of the mountains where power is cheap but summer temps can exceed 100... on an 18/6 grow cycle I think it best to exhaust cause I would feel more comfortable with a set up that allows for me to control the environment...
> 
> In the future, I'll look to set up to find a way to use and reclaim exhausted heat, water (if possible) and also set up solar panels and batteries for power.
> 
> ...


wait where the hell did i get az. oh wait. someone else that asked me for help was from az. my bad. lol.


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## wheels619 (Feb 24, 2013)

menuink said:


> But would this work for over 8000 square feet though? I don't think anything "Mini A/C" would support that much light wattage and keep the environment at an optimal temperature. I would think that the cost of air cooled lighting and exhaust would be far more cost effecient than dropping A/C tonnage into the facility.
> 
> Thoughts?


its a mini split not a mini ac. its actually a really good way to cool the environment. the waterchiller you will need for that sq ftage is going to cost a huge penny tho.


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## menuink (Feb 28, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> wait where the hell did i get az. oh wait. someone else that asked me for help was from az. my bad. lol.


I was just curious as to what you might be thinking about a design for this size... pins and needles, ya know! 

So looking forward to your thoughts and ideas!


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## wheels619 (Feb 28, 2013)

menuink said:


> I was just curious as to what you might be thinking about a design for this size... pins and needles, ya know!
> 
> So looking forward to your thoughts and ideas!


still working on it. have to work on it in my spare time since ive still got work and my girls to take care of.


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## mrCRC420 (Feb 28, 2013)

I'd buy 100 of those automatic grow-thru-harvest setups. And then go on a 5 month tropical vacation. Hahaha, yea; I think I'd just do that.. hmmm...


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## menuink (Mar 1, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> still working on it. have to work on it in my spare time since ive still got work and my girls to take care of.


It's all good! I'm happy to have the input! Thanks!


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## menuink (Mar 17, 2013)

menuink said:


> It's all good! I'm happy to have the input! Thanks!


What program do you use for design? I'm needing to put a few design plans together. Thanks!


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Mar 17, 2013)

8000 sq.ft. grow room? i have 1500 sq.ft. and it takes all of 10 tons of ac to cool it. are you sure you don't mean 8000 cu.ft.? even if you have 8000 sq.ft. you should probably build smaller rooms inside of it for your veg and flower. much more efficient and economical to cool.


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## wheels619 (Mar 18, 2013)

menuink said:


> What program do you use for design? I'm needing to put a few design plans together. Thanks!


autocad or any 3 dimensional software. i use autocad becuz thats what i have on hand and i didnt have to pay for the copy. perks of doing fab design work for a few companies i made money with a few years ago.


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## BleedsGreen420 (Mar 18, 2013)

Hi im a First time grower ive been reading your Forums and you seem to know what you are talking about i was wondering if you would be able to give me a couple pointers. I set up a Ghetto Grow box thats about 2 feet tall 2 feet wide 1 1/2 deep and have it Lined with Foil and reflective material and i am going to be running 4 CLF 100 watt equivalent lighting and i also have 2 LED Muliti specturem blulbs ment just for growing and i have One Intake Fan with a Couple holes on the other side of the box as a outtake. Do you think what i have will be able to give me a good grow?? And the inside of the grow box has a pretty Big Breeze do you think that'll Cause any problems? Im looking for any adivice pleasee helppp!!!


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## wheels619 (Mar 18, 2013)

BleedsGreen420 said:


> Hi im a First time grower ive been reading your Forums and you seem to know what you are talking about i was wondering if you would be able to give me a couple pointers. I set up a Ghetto Grow box thats about 2 feet tall 2 feet wide 1 1/2 deep and have it Lined with Foil and reflective material and i am going to be running 4 CLF 100 watt equivalent lighting and i also have 2 LED Muliti specturem blulbs ment just for growing and i have One Intake Fan with a Couple holes on the other side of the box as a outtake. Do you think what i have will be able to give me a good grow?? And the inside of the grow box has a pretty Big Breeze do you think that'll Cause any problems? Im looking for any adivice pleasee helppp!!!


you need a fan inside blowing the air around and the intake fan should be used for axhaust so its pulling the hot air out and not just pushing air in. but other than that you should be good. also foil isnt very awesome for reflectiveness. creates hot spots. your better off getting a can of flat whit spray paint and painting the inside of the box flat white.


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## BleedsGreen420 (Mar 18, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> you need a fan inside blowing the air around and the intake fan should be used for axhaust so its pulling the hot air out and not just pushing air in. but other than that you should be good. also foil isnt very awesome for reflectiveness. creates hot spots. your better off getting a can of flat whit spray paint and painting the inside of the box flat white.


Okay Makes Since Cool man thanks.. Do you think too high of a breeze will cause any problemss??


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## wheels619 (Mar 19, 2013)

BleedsGreen420 said:


> Okay Makes Since Cool man thanks.. Do you think too high of a breeze will cause any problemss??


no the bigger the better. the breeze helps keep you from getting nasty problems. just dont have typhoon winds in that bitch and your good.


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## menuink (Mar 20, 2013)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> 8000 sq.ft. grow room? i have 1500 sq.ft. and it takes all of 10 tons of ac to cool it. are you sure you don't mean 8000 cu.ft.? even if you have 8000 sq.ft. you should probably build smaller rooms inside of it for your veg and flower. much more efficient and economical to cool.


Nope, my space is as big as I said... And the plan is to partition the space


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## menuink (Mar 20, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> autocad or any 3 dimensional software. i use autocad becuz thats what i have on hand and i didnt have to pay for the copy. perks of doing fab design work for a few companies i made money with a few years ago.


Thanks, I figure you must be busy so I'll take a shot at designing that space we discussed myself. Getting to d-day and I soon need to begin constructing my space.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Mar 21, 2013)

menuink said:


> Thanks, I figure you must be busy so I'll take a shot at designing that space we discussed myself. Getting to d-day and I soon need to begin constructing my space.


when designing a room like that from scratch you build out the room based on 2 factors; light footprint and plant footprint. that's really it. you don't want a bunch of extra space that you have to cool or burn Co2 for but you also want to make sure you have enough room to move plants around and work in the space.


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## wheels619 (Mar 21, 2013)

menuink said:


> Thanks, I figure you must be busy so I'll take a shot at designing that space we discussed myself. Getting to d-day and I soon need to begin constructing my space.


ive started but in all honesty it takes a bit to get design work done. ive been working on it in my spare time in between work and working on the existing op i have. thats still not up to par yet. trying to figure out how to stuff a 15000 btu ac in it along with other shit to prepare for summer. sorry man thats its taking too long for you but ive gotta get mine done before i worry about the rest ya know? work and wifey and plants take a toll on ya sometimes. if you feel like hitting it up then feel free. good luck. begin with walls and measurements. if ypu plan on constructing rooms make them the first piece of the puzzle. next is electrical to all the objects you need. take into consideration voltages and amperages becuz odds are you will need to run cable for it all. also consider where and how your lights will be hung air cooled hoods or batwings ect. intake and exhaust. also dont forget to take light footprints into consideration when drawing up the spaces themselves. dont try to pack 4 1000 watters in a 200 sc ft area. each 1000 with a reg air cooled hood has a light footprint of about 4x4 ft or 16 sq ft-25 sq ft max dont overdue or underdue your space to light ratio. lots of other stuff to take into consideration. if worst comes to wortst pm me if you need help. good luck dude.

oh and get an electrician to do all the wiring and stuff unless your electrical savy. which is not most.


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## menuink (Mar 22, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> ive started but in all honesty it takes a bit to get design work done. ive been working on it in my spare time in between work and working on the existing op i have. thats still not up to par yet. trying to figure out how to stuff a 15000 btu ac in it along with other shit to prepare for summer. sorry man thats its taking too long for you but ive gotta get mine done before i worry about the rest ya know? work and wifey and plants take a toll on ya sometimes. if you feel like hitting it up then feel free. good luck. begin with walls and measurements. if ypu plan on constructing rooms make them the first piece of the puzzle. next is electrical to all the objects you need. take into consideration voltages and amperages becuz odds are you will need to run cable for it all. also consider where and how your lights will be hung air cooled hoods or batwings ect. intake and exhaust. also dont forget to take light footprints into consideration when drawing up the spaces themselves. dont try to pack 4 1000 watters in a 200 sc ft area. each 1000 with a reg air cooled hood has a light footprint of about 4x4 ft or 16 sq ft-25 sq ft max dont overdue or underdue your space to light ratio. lots of other stuff to take into consideration. if worst comes to wortst pm me if you need help. good luck dude.
> 
> oh and get an electrician to do all the wiring and stuff unless your electrical savy. which is not most.


I'm gonna give it a shot but I would love to see what a pro like yourself comes up with. I do appreciate your help and I understand your situation. I travel for work so I get it! Im in Cal now actually, Ojai to be specific!


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## Casper0878 (Mar 22, 2013)

Was wondering if you could look at my sketches real quick and give me some thoughts on my stealth grow box. Here is a list of the parts I was thinking of using:

Super Sun 2 AC Hood
400w Digital Galaxy Ballast
400w MH/HPS
Vortex 6" Inline Fan 452 CFM
Phresh 6" Carbon Filter 400 CFM



My current issue is the sheer size of this thing. Not gonna go down a hallway and pivot into a bedroom at all. If I built it in the room, I won't be able to take it out unless I take it apart. Currently going to put this in my room at my family's house. Want to try the ventilation out before I move out into my own apartment at the end of summer to make sure there is no smell. I went 64" across because of the filter and hood. I wanted the light to be centered in the cabinet. I can probably cut it down to 60" and the depth by a few inches as well. Let me know what you think. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Mar 22, 2013)

menuink said:


> I'm gonna give it a shot but I would love to see what a pro like yourself comes up with. I do appreciate your help and I understand your situation. I travel for work so I get it! Im in Cal now actually, Ojai to be specific!


i think wheels is trying to get you to provide more info. it's kinda hard to design a room without knowing all the equipment that will be in there; the size of the plants; number of plants; electrical situation; plumbing situation; space layout; etc... if you are building from scratch like i did you still need to know a lot of stuff to get the design just right. if your design isn't going to be close to exact then there really is no point in doing it. you can use a simple 2D program like SmartDraw or one of the free ones just to give you a rough idea of what you are gonna need.

i did this on SmartDraw but i already had the program for interior design and layout. 

View attachment 2581238


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## wheels619 (Mar 22, 2013)

menuink said:


> I'm gonna give it a shot but I would love to see what a pro like yourself comes up with. I do appreciate your help and I understand your situation. I travel for work so I get it! Im in Cal now actually, Ojai to be specific!


lmao. not a pro. just been doing it for a few years and have gotten pretty good at it. lol. you dont becom pro with weed becuz you will always learn something new and new techniques.


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## wheels619 (Mar 22, 2013)

Casper0878 said:


> Was wondering if you could look at my sketches real quick and give me some thoughts on my stealth grow box. Here is a list of the parts I was thinking of using:
> 
> Super Sun 2 AC Hood
> 400w Digital Galaxy Ballast
> ...


your drawings look legit. altho you may want to take into consideration a 400s light footprint. a 400 with a regular air cooled hood has about a 3x3 light footprint. max is 4x4 ft. once you get passed 4x4 ft your light becomes pretty worthless and your buds will become airy. also dont raise your light more than about 18 inches above your plants. i usually keep my 400s really close within 12 inches for best results. if you really want to bang for your buck get a 600 for flowering. it will increase your flowering footprint to about 4x4 easily and will give you 5x5 ft if you really need it to. but try avoiding it. also add circulation fans a box fan from walmart works pretty awesome for 10 bucks. also i would consider making it 3x5 ft instead of 2.5. once you start playing around with it you will be happy you have the space.


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## wheels619 (Mar 22, 2013)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> i think wheels is trying to get you to provide more info. it's kinda hard to design a room without knowing all the equipment that will be in there; the size of the plants; number of plants; electrical situation; plumbing situation; space layout; etc... if you are building from scratch like i did you still need to know a lot of stuff to get the design just right. if your design isn't going to be close to exact then there really is no point in doing it. you can use a simple 2D program like SmartDraw or one of the free ones just to give you a rough idea of what you are gonna need.
> 
> i did this on SmartDraw but i already had the program for interior design and layout.
> 
> View attachment 2581238


what that guy said. without all the variables i cant really do much but just try. show you how to set everything up and everything once you get down to the more intense stuff like elec and power. it becomes a hassle becus its better to be overdoing it and have a shit ton of amps not being used than have all the amps used and need more power. its a bit of a sticky situation when you dont have 100% of the info needed. but i am still dickin around none the less. lol.


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## menuink (Mar 26, 2013)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> i think wheels is trying to get you to provide more info. it's kinda hard to design a room without knowing all the equipment that will be in there; the size of the plants; number of plants; electrical situation; plumbing situation; space layout; etc... if you are building from scratch like i did you still need to know a lot of stuff to get the design just right. if your design isn't going to be close to exact then there really is no point in doing it. you can use a simple 2D program like SmartDraw or one of the free ones just to give you a rough idea of what you are gonna need.
> 
> i did this on SmartDraw but i already had the program for interior design and layout.
> 
> View attachment 2581238


Great layout scooby, besides smart draw (expensive) could you recommend other 2D software? It looks like you have quite a bit of experience with such programs!


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Mar 27, 2013)

menuink said:


> Great layout scooby, besides smart draw (expensive) could you recommend other 2D software? It looks like you have quite a bit of experience with such programs!


 sorry bud but I don't know any other ones. like I said we use these programs for my business so we already had them. try to google it and see if you can come up with any.


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## menuink (Mar 28, 2013)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> sorry bud but I don't know any other ones. like I said we use these programs for my business so we already had them. try to google it and see if you can come up with any.


Its all good! I was able to get myself a copy. It's the best I've been able to find so far.


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## cobragro (Mar 29, 2013)

To Scooby, smart as hell and humble, yea buddy! Scooby, I will be building new grow room, 24'x 10' x 6.5h. Thinking of dwc or several titan controls flo n gro bucket systems. Would feel much better with input from someone with your obvious experience. Longtime outside grower, currently growing in accelerated technologies ultimate XL combo cabinets. Love to hear your opinion on equipment and arrangement if you have the time.


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## JSJ (Mar 29, 2013)

WOW, nice thread. Wondering if there is anyway I could get a little help thrown my way?? I want to put a perpetual grow room in my attic. The space I have layed out for it is 8'x8'. The attic is total open from end to end. Center ridge height is right at 7'. The 8'x8' area I layed out is slighting off center due to heater runner running down attic. I know I am going to have to build me 4 walls and insulate the hell out of it, along with insulating the roof rafters real good. I would like to have a separate veg area, flower area and a place to start seedlings or clones. I have a 276W CFL hood, a 574W CFL hood and a 400W HPS mag. ballast and socket. Just got a good profit sharing bonus check and I want to do this room up proper. Any help or ideas on this guys?? Thanx in advance and as always +reps for the good answers!!!


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Mar 29, 2013)

cobragro said:


> To Scooby, smart as hell and humble, yea buddy! Scooby, I will be building new grow room, 24'x 10' x 6.5h. Thinking of dwc or several titan controls flo n gro bucket systems. Would feel much better with input from someone with your obvious experience. Longtime outside grower, currently growing in accelerated technologies ultimate XL combo cabinets. Love to hear your opinion on equipment and arrangement if you have the time.


 Hey Cobrago, thanks for stopping by and the compliments. more than happy to help. Got any specific questions? I'm in the middle of a holiday week here in Costa Rica but I'll put together a design for you as soon as possible. Seems like you have plenty of space but you have some height restrictions. In your case I would use 600w lights to give you a little more room to grow the plants taller. 1000w lights need 18-24" from the plant canopy while 600w lights are 8-12" on average. Gives you another foot in plant height. Another suggestion would be to just stick with one grow method for now. Plants react different in different methods and having both DWC and Ebb and Flow buckets means twice as much work and twice as much nutrient mixings cause they will use different ratios. Give me a little more info on how many plants you wanna do, how many lights, how many plants per light, do you want separate veg, flower, drying rooms, etc... I'll mock something up for you.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Mar 29, 2013)

JSJ said:


> WOW, nice thread. Wondering if there is anyway I could get a little help thrown my way?? I want to put a perpetual grow room in my attic. The space I have layed out for it is 8'x8'. The attic is total open from end to end. Center ridge height is right at 7'. The 8'x8' area I layed out is slighting off center due to heater runner running down attic. I know I am going to have to build me 4 walls and insulate the hell out of it, along with insulating the roof rafters real good. I would like to have a separate veg area, flower area and a place to start seedlings or clones. I have a 276W CFL hood, a 574W CFL hood and a 400W HPS mag. ballast and socket. Just got a good profit sharing bonus check and I want to do this room up proper. Any help or ideas on this guys?? Thanx in advance and as always +reps for the good answers!!!


 i'm no good with CFL grows but I would think that you could just build out a small cabinet in the 8x8 space and make that your veg/clone room. veg and clone are on the same light cycle and temperature controls and based on the size you wouldn't need much room anyway. just my opinion though. you are only growing with a 400w light so it's not like you'll have to veg or flower 40 plants.


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## cobragro (Mar 29, 2013)

I appreciate your help Snoopy. Would like to grow about 40 plants in veg with a separate flower room. I am open to suggestion on different types of systems, just considering the flo n gro for bigger plants. But hey man, don't want to occupy your holiday, have plenty time to get room started.


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## cobragro (Mar 29, 2013)

Scooby , sorry bout that. Will be able to buy whatever you recommend.work hard for a long time, now want to stay busy doing what pleases me, and that's gardening. Looking forward to what you might create. Thanks again.


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## itbe (Apr 1, 2013)

*[FONT=&amp]Hi Scooby and everyone else. I've been trolling for a while now and think I'm starting to get the hang of this. I would like youre help in figuring out my setup. I want to get a pattern together that will allow me to have plants at different stages of development a month or two months apart.[/FONT]*

I have a $2500 budget

*[FONT=&amp]I have a spare bedroom I will use as a grow room dimensions 144x96x96. The room has 2 doors a window and hardwood floors. The window will be covered and used for ventilation. One door will be sealed. I will erect a tent to contain my environment. [/FONT]*

*Tent: 600D Reflective Mylar Hydroponic Plant Grow Room Tent 118x60x79 Large Window Hut*

*Strain: I bought a total of 5 strains all feminized. **Reserva Privada Sour Kush AKA Headband, Reserva Privada OG Kush #18, Delicious Seeds Cotton Candy, Iced Grapefruit, Eva Seeds Jamaican Dream*

*Growing style: RDWC Waterfarm 8 pack with the recirculating kit and the mods suggested by the grasscity mod thread. *

*Methods: I am interested in Super Cropping, and SCROG*

*Medium: Hydroton after paper towel germination **
*
*Lights:* I dont know what type of light setup to get. At my local grow shop I was advised to get 2x1000w. That seems bigger then most peoples setup. Why? Isnt more light better? Or is it because of energy consumption.

*Ballasts:Solis-Tek MATRIX 1000W MH/HPS Dimmable LCD Remote Control Ballast w/ built-in Timer*

Nutes: I Dont Know
Additivies: I Dont Know, drip clean
Distilled Water

*Ventilation Tube: Dundas Jafine AF625ULPZW Aluminum Foil UL Listed and Marked Duct, 6-Inches by 25-Feet*

*Fan-**8" HO HIGH OUTPUT EXHAUST FAN 8 INCH 737 CFM*

*Carbon Air Filter-Can 100 840 CFM
Air Pump and 8x air stones
Light Timer 
PPM/PH Monitor 
Thermometer*

What am I missing? Any suggestions?


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## wheels619 (Apr 1, 2013)

1000s were recomended for light penetration. a single 1000 watt light has a 5x5 light footprint max or 25 sq ft. two will fit your tent perfectly. also you will need 2 timers. one per ballast if you are running 110v. the amperage draw will murder you if you try to put the two together on one outlet or circuit. you may need to consider how you will power the lights and equipment first. 2 1000 watt lights are pushing at least 18 amps together. more than a single bedroom can sustain. you may be running extension cords to ur grow. think power and dont always trust the hydro store. they are out for money remember.


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## wheels619 (Apr 1, 2013)

also depending on where you live and if summers get hot id consider an ac or window shaker.


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## wheels619 (Apr 1, 2013)

and yes more light is better. but consider this. it costs an average of 80-140 bucks to power a single thousand on 12/12 per month. take power costs into consideration. so do the calculations on your power bill to see what you will pay. they will give you a set amount for whichever tier your in. ruffly 8-30 cents per kw hour. or ruffly 8-30 cents per 1000 watts per hour. also this is to be taking into consideration for all the electronics. including air pumps water pumps circulation fans and exhaust fans.


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## itbe (Apr 1, 2013)

Thanks wheels. Makes sense. In a residential building how much is this a point of concern for detection by police? Should I aim for smaller lights say 2x600w?


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## cobragro (Apr 9, 2013)

Hey Scooby, you make it back from Costa Rico or they kidnapped you and forcing you to design grow rooms there? Need you and Phillip to help and share your expertise! I need ideas from you guys on what hydro system to use, leaning toward titan flo n gro buckets, and the design for 24 x 10 x 6.5h grow room. Want to vent on 24ft. sides so nothing vented on outside of barn. There is only one 10ft. side that is on outside, other three sides are on inside of barn structure. Let me know if you have ideas you would like to share. Thanks.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Apr 9, 2013)

cobragro said:


> Hey Scooby, you make it back from Costa Rico or they kidnapped you and forcing you to design grow rooms there? Need you and Phillip to help and share your expertise! I need ideas from you guys on what hydro system to use, leaning toward titan flo n gro buckets, and the design for 24 x 10 x 6.5h grow room. Want to vent on 24ft. sides so nothing vented on outside of barn. There is only one 10ft. side that is on outside, other three sides are on inside of barn structure. Let me know if you have ideas you would like to share. Thanks.


 hey bud, I am phillip. they banned me for a while and then let me come back but wouldn't give me my old account back so I had to create this one. still in central america most of the time. I live and work here. mostly costa rica. couple questions...that whole space for flower or you want separate rooms for flower and veg? how many lights? any chance you can make higher ceilings? what other equipment will you have in the rooms? will you be venting the rooms or keeping them sealed? how many plants per light? with 6' ceiling you are gonna need some short plants. have you ever grown before? if not then I would start in soil. just my opinion. let me know. glad to help.


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## cobragro (Apr 10, 2013)

Hey Phillip, glad you are back! I would prefer flower and veg rooms, maintain around 40-50 plants in veg with # lights that would require, all equipment needed for growing, sealed if possible, max. # plants per light, growing experience all outside, currently growing in Accelerated Technologies Stanley and Brian XL combo cabinets, hydroton, co2 boost buckets, water chiller, etc.. yea, plants would have to be short, read a thread in this site called mainlining, its was unbelievable, so probably go with that to keep short. Not completely opposed to soil but would prefer hydro. So, that's about it. Think you can do anything with this? I really appreciate your help Phillip.


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## stealth31639 (Apr 10, 2013)

I was looking for some advice. I just got a new space and am setting up a hydro drip system with between 12 and 18 1000W HPS for flower. I have other space for veg and clones. I would really appreciate if someone has some idea on what would be the best possible set up in this room. Thanks for the help!


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Apr 11, 2013)

I'm gonna be honest with you guys. My desk looks like a tornado hit it. Working on 2 new constructions and a huge remodel to one of my homes. Spending about 16 hours a day on the phone and internet. I'll try and help as best I can but right now I am swamped with work, fishing, and finding a day a week to get away from the computer. Sorry.


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## cobragro (Apr 11, 2013)

Not a problem Scooby, you take care of business and yourself, hey man this stuff can wait. I can be cleaning out my space and shoring up outside walls, etc.. let's us know what's going on with ya, catch some fish, and we can do something casual later mate. Pace yourself, you are too valuable an asset to burn out and lose. Talk to you soon, cobragro.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Apr 12, 2013)

cobragro said:


> Not a problem Scooby, you take care of business and yourself, hey man this stuff can wait. I can be cleaning out my space and shoring up outside walls, etc.. let's us know what's going on with ya, catch some fish, and we can do something casual later mate. Pace yourself, you are too valuable an asset to burn out and lose. Talk to you soon, cobragro.


 Cause you were so kind. LOL. This is what I threw together right now. Would need more info to really lay it out for you but this way you have plenty of room for extra equipment in each room and if you need to vent the rooms the 24' walls are available. Plus it gives you room to work in the flower room. Keeping the plants short usually means wider; this way you can get to all your plants.


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## cobragro (Apr 12, 2013)

Awesome Scooby, really appreciate you taking the time to help. I will start setting this up. The room is heavily wire as I originally planed to use as a workshop, but I will probably have to add more circuits to handle the hids. Will have to get a book because my electrical, carpentry, etc., skills are minimal at best. Hey, thanks again, take care of yourself and we will talk whenever you are ready. Later Scooby.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Apr 13, 2013)

cobragro said:


> Awesome Scooby, really appreciate you taking the time to help. I will start setting this up. The room is heavily wire as I originally planed to use as a workshop, but I will probably have to add more circuits to handle the hids. Will have to get a book because my electrical, carpentry, etc., skills are minimal at best. Hey, thanks again, take care of yourself and we will talk whenever you are ready. Later Scooby.


the carpentry and electrical is simple enough if you have some basic experience. I would use 2x4's to frame it out and then rough in all you electrical exactly where you need it. then do plywood or drywall on one side; insulate with fiberglass from the other side and seal it up with plywood or drywall. that way you get good insulation on your room and also eliminate a lot of the noise. also, when hanging drywall use silicone on the edges to create a tight seal where it will hit the studs. seal the floor studs as well. if your "barn" has concrete floors and it gets cold where you live look at making a subfloor out of 1x1's or 2x2's and plywood on top. will help keep that cold floor from sweating in your room and creating humidity. plus, will help you control the temps of the room a lot easier.


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## cobragro (Apr 14, 2013)

Thanks Scooby. The floors are wood and I will just need to insulate then put up some type of cover on inside walls, sheetrock or plywood. Now, you go catch a big fish and send us a picture. You are the best!


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## menuink (Apr 20, 2013)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> i think wheels is trying to get you to provide more info. it's kinda hard to design a room without knowing all the equipment that will be in there; the size of the plants; number of plants; electrical situation; plumbing situation; space layout; etc... if you are building from scratch like i did you still need to know a lot of stuff to get the design just right. if your design isn't going to be close to exact then there really is no point in doing it. you can use a simple 2D program like SmartDraw or one of the free ones just to give you a rough idea of what you are gonna need.
> 
> i did this on SmartDraw but i already had the program for interior design and layout.
> 
> View attachment 2581238


Hey Scooby, in your design you have 9 plants per 1000k. What's been your experience with this ratio of 9:1? Im thinking 6 per 1000k and 4 per 600k.... Thoughts?


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Apr 20, 2013)

menuink said:


> Hey Scooby, in your design you have 9 plants per 1000k. What's been your experience with this ratio of 9:1? Im thinking 6 per 1000k and 4 per 600k.... Thoughts?


I have 9 per light because of the size of the plants. I like growing mid sized indoor plants. the pots aren't that heavy and they are easy to maneuver. You can grow 48 plants under a 1000w light or you can grow 1. just depends on how long you veg them and any training techniques you use.


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## menuink (Apr 20, 2013)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> I have 9 per light because of the size of the plants. I like growing mid sized indoor plants. the pots aren't that heavy and they are easy to maneuver. You can grow 48 plants under a 1000w light or you can grow 1. just depends on how long you veg them and any training techniques you use.


Cool man, thanks! I figured I would be ok, but with so much information out there, the more you read the worse it all becomes!!! 

Here's something I'd like to get your opinion on... 

I want to build a veg "station", however I want it to be two tier. It's going to be "over/under" and be an 18'x6' PVC NFT system, used for a max of 3 weeks of veg before going into my flower rooms. What I'm having trouble with (and granted, this is all height related) is deciding upon what kind of lighting system woud be best. Obviously, for 3 - 6'x6' section per level, a 1000K MH would be best to veg, but because they're stacked Im concerned about the heat transfer from the lower section to the upper immediatly above it. 

I'm considering using t-5's for this, but I'm concerned about getting the best veg possible before flowering.

Anyones thoughts are much appreciated!!! 

~ b.


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## mdjenks (Apr 20, 2013)

hey all I'm new to this site but I have a small grow cab I built for people that live in big cities like myself with little room, this my cab, Im using an ebb & grow system:



It has a conversion ballast and a 200cfm fan connected to a carbon filter that vents outside. I usually yield about 3-4oz's a run.


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## cobragro (Apr 20, 2013)

Yea Scooby, I understand you would need more info to do something as exact as what I have seen you do. I am leaning toward 2 - 24 pot flo n gro systems from Titan Controls. All my experience has been outside with exception of now growing in the Stanley and Brian XL combo cabinets from Accelerated Technologies. Iwill have to have something to cool the reservoirs and the room. I have a 10K BTU window ac that I could build into the inside the barn 10ft. End of the room. Will have to use 600W HIDS because of the 6.5 ft. ceiling. Would appreciate ideas on what system might be better for fairly new hydro grower and the best way to supply co2. Scooby I read some of your previous threads; are you one of us, or could you give a little insight in regard to AREA 51, LOL a lot! Anyway, if you could help I would appreciate it , but again, no real rush, as I know you are very busy. Thanks Scoob.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Apr 20, 2013)

cobragro said:


> Yea Scooby, I understand you would need more info to do something as exact as what I have seen you do. I am leaning toward 2 - 24 pot flo n gro systems from Titan Controls. All my experience has been outside with exception of now growing in the Stanley and Brian XL combo cabinets from Accelerated Technologies. Iwill have to have something to cool the reservoirs and the room. I have a 10K BTU window ac that I could build into the inside the barn 10ft. End of the room. Will have to use 600W HIDS because of the 6.5 ft. ceiling. Would appreciate ideas on what system might be better for fairly new hydro grower and the best way to supply co2. Scooby I read some of your previous threads; are you one of us, or could you give a little insight in regard to AREA 51, LOL a lot! Anyway, if you could help I would appreciate it , but again, no real rush, as I know you are very busy. Thanks Scoob.


 I have heard a lot of good things about the Titan Flo and Grow system but even it has it's drawbacks. Sentinel makes a system called the MEF-1 if I am not mistaken. I hear it alleviates all the issues with bucket ebb & flow systems. I would definitely check into it. It's a tab bit pricier but may be well worth it. Ebb and flow bucket systems have inherent drawbacks that the Sentinel system seems to have cured. Going with 600w lights is a good call. Buy switchable 600/1000w ballasts just in case in the future you decide to upgrade. That way you won't have to buy new ballasts. Only if you have the extra money though. If you are gonna do that many plants I don't think a 10,000btu window unit is gonna cut it. You may need another window unit or a larger minisplit. With a flower room that size I think you should with a simple propane generator. Look into the Hydro Innovations MiniGen. It can be water cooled but doesn't need to be. It's more than enough and works on the same type propane tank you use for your outdoor grill. I think the bucket system is your best bet to start hydro. Then once you've got a few runs under your belt and some extra cash you can move to a RDWC (Under Current) system. They are expensive and not for new growers. I'd recommend flood tables if your ceiling weren't so low but since they are the buckets are the best route. Stay away from mainlining for the first few crops. Just top the plants twice and tie down the tallest branches until a week before flower. That is more than enough to give you nice bushy plants.


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## cobragro (Apr 21, 2013)

I checked out the Sentinel system and they seem to have eliminated the problem of water remaining in the bottom of the growing modules with a concaved bottom. The only negative is the 2.5 gallon pots compared to 4 gallon with the Titan Controls. I agree that I will need a larger ac, so that is an easy fix. The most important question now is the most efficient way to cool 2 - 55 gallon reservoirs. I would appreciate you're recommendation and also brand of ballast, bulbs, and reflectors. As always Scooby, you are the best!


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## wheels619 (Apr 21, 2013)

cobragro said:


> I checked out the Sentinel system and they seem to have eliminated the problem of water remaining in the bottom of the growing modules with a concaved bottom. The only negative is the 2.5 gallon pots compared to 4 gallon with the Titan Controls. I agree that I will need a larger ac, so that is an easy fix. The most important question now is the most efficient way to cool 2 - 55 gallon reservoirs. I would appreciate you're recommendation and also brand of ballast, bulbs, and reflectors. As always Scooby, you are the best!


best way. water chillers hooked up to your bucket system. it will chill the water and return it to the res. but you cant use it for more than one at a time.


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## mrwhatdahell (Apr 21, 2013)

i am a new to growing. my first grow was in my room with cfls. mostly stuff i had at home. out of the 10 i started with i ended up with 4 female all from seed. 2 bag seeds and 2 female seeds. that was last year. now i have a 4x4 tent with 9 pot ebb gro system. Is that too many in there? Now i am building a 5x8 grow room. I want it to eventually to grow and flower after the first grow. how many pots could i fit in the 5x8 for the max yield? things i have ebb 12 xxl 8 hood 600 watt light 4" inline fan 6" exhaust fan. i have spent alot of money on this setup. i did buy stuff that would end up needing like another controll bucket ,2 6" hoods, another 4x4 dr120 tent.holland secret nukes planning on cyco flower soon. any tips on 5x8 grow is needed thanks.


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## mrwhatdahell (Apr 21, 2013)

i have looked in to the sentinel system too. the guy at the garden center show me one problem that it has. on the bottom of the control bucket is water senser that will shut of the system if they get wet. due to condensation.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Apr 21, 2013)

cobragro said:


> I checked out the Sentinel system and they seem to have eliminated the problem of water remaining in the bottom of the growing modules with a concaved bottom. The only negative is the 2.5 gallon pots compared to 4 gallon with the Titan Controls. I agree that I will need a larger ac, so that is an easy fix. The most important question now is the most efficient way to cool 2 - 55 gallon reservoirs. I would appreciate you're recommendation and also brand of ballast, bulbs, and reflectors. As always Scooby, you are the best!


you aren't growing that many plants. I bet you could get away with just a single reservoir if you did the sentinel system considering that you are keeping them small anyway. the CAP system uses 2 or 2.5 gallon buckets and those were plenty when I experimented with the system. I think if you go with the sentinel system you can do 1 reservoir. as for a chiller, the cheapest way is to get yourself 4 1 liter plastic bottles and fill them with water. stick them in the fridge and use 1 in the reservoir every day or 2. just monitor the temp and you'll see when it need to be changed or if you need to use 2 smaller bottles. if not, then a chiller. 1/4hp ecoplus unit will do the job. just have it feed and exhaust into a 20 gallon sealed bucket with a small pump. then have another pump with a t-ball valve to control pressure/temps feeding a cooling coil in your reservoir. the coil you want is called a wort chiller. you can buy them cheap at any homebrewing website. stainless steel and not copper. use the t-ball valve to control the pressure in the line which will determine the water temp in your reservoir. easier than trying to dial in you chiller temp.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Apr 21, 2013)

mrwhatdahell said:


> i have looked in to the sentinel system too. the guy at the garden center show me one problem that it has. on the bottom of the control bucket is water senser that will shut of the system if they get wet. due to condensation.


 that sensor is not for condensation. it's to shut the system off in case of float valve failure and the room starts to flood. your bucket should never have condensation on it if your room temps and humidity are right. the dew point is much lower for water at those temps in rooms that are 70-80 degrees with 45-60% humidity.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Apr 21, 2013)

mrwhatdahell said:


> i am a new to growing. my first grow was in my room with cfls. mostly stuff i had at home. out of the 10 i started with i ended up with 4 female all from seed. 2 bag seeds and 2 female seeds. that was last year. now i have a 4x4 tent with 9 pot ebb gro system. Is that too many in there? Now i am building a 5x8 grow room. I want it to eventually to grow and flower after the first grow. how many pots could i fit in the 5x8 for the max yield? things i have ebb 12 xxl 8 hood 600 watt light 4" inline fan 6" exhaust fan. i have spent alot of money on this setup. i did buy stuff that would end up needing like another controll bucket ,2 6" hoods, another 4x4 dr120 tent.holland secret nukes planning on cyco flower soon. any tips on 5x8 grow is needed thanks.


you can fit 200 plants in a 4x4 tent if you keep them tiny. go straight to flower. it's all about the size of the plant. for max yields it's always better to grow smaller plants and more of them in my opinion. 600w lights in XXXL hoods is a complete waste. you lose to much light. those hoods are only designed for 1000w lights.


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## cobragro (Apr 21, 2013)

Yea that would be a problem, also the 2.5 gal. grow modules seem too small for the size plants I would like. Titan Controls has 4 gal. buckets with net pots inside that snap in preventing them from floating. I didn't see the reservoir size for the Sentinel system, guess it would be 55 gallons. Hey Wheels, what size and brand chillers would you suggest for the 55 gallon reservoirs?


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## cobragro (Apr 21, 2013)

Yea, I agree with the frozen water bottles. I did that yesterday in the reservoirs in my cabinets only I put ice in zip lock bags. So you think the 2.5 gallon grow modules are big enough?


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Apr 21, 2013)

cobragro said:


> Yea that would be a problem, also the 2.5 gal. grow modules seem too small for the size plants I would like. Titan Controls has 4 gal. buckets with net pots inside that snap in preventing them from floating. I didn't see the reservoir size for the Sentinel system, guess it would be 55 gallons. Hey Wheels, what size and brand chillers would you suggest for the 55 gallon reservoirs?


 you buy the reservoir separate with the sentinel system. it does come with a much more reliable digital control. you have 6.5' ceiling. your hoods are 1' deep and you have to strap them to the ceiling. your pots are 1' tall. you need to keep your plants 8" from the glass. exactly how big a plant do you think you are growing? I figure 3-3.5' plants max. grow more smaller plants in the 2-3 gallon buckets that the sentinel system has. you don't have the height to grow anything big anyway. like I said before. 1/4hp chiller for a 55 gallon reservoir. I have owned 2hp, 3hp, 5hp, and 12hp chillers. i run a 12hp chiller with 2 4 ton water cooled air handlers and water cooled Co2 generators, ice box heat exchangers, and water cooled dehumidifiers. trust me. 1/4 is plenty. also, you are factoring the size of the pot when sizing your reservoir. your pots are gonna be filled with hydroton. a 3 gallon pot will only hold about 1 gallon of water when it is filled with hydroton.


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## menuink (Apr 21, 2013)

menuink said:


> Cool man, thanks! I figured I would be ok, but with so much information out there, the more you read the worse it all becomes!!!
> 
> Here's something I'd like to get your opinion on...
> 
> ...


Bumping this forward.... don't want it to get lost without getting a cool opninon or two! (Pun Intended!)


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## cobragro (Apr 21, 2013)

That sounds good Scooby. With 6.5' ceiling I don't need the bigger pots and I can grow bushes rather than trees. In other words, what you said, lol. I saw a thread on reflector and ballast comparisons it showed Luxor ref. and Micro-mole ballasts to be the best. Any words of wisdom on these products?


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## wheels619 (Apr 21, 2013)

1/4 hp at least. any brand will do. i usually go with the one product that has the best warranty for the money. just google the brands and models ur looking at. the reviews will tell you if its shite before you buy.


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## wheels619 (Apr 21, 2013)

yeah. find a brand you like thats good quality and stick with them regardless of name. buy for quality. if you dont you will regret it later when you have to fork out more cash to replace burnt out equip.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Apr 21, 2013)

cobragro said:


> That sounds good Scooby. With 6.5' ceiling I don't need the bigger pots and I can grow bushes rather than trees. In other words, what you said, lol. I saw a thread on reflector and ballast comparisons it showed Luxor ref. and Micro-mole ballasts to be the best. Any words of wisdom on these products?


 I heard the luxor is great but it's also like 2' deep dude. stick with the sun system blockbuster or cool sun. you are using 600w lights. you don't want huge reflectors. don't know anything about micro mole ballasts...LUMATEK is the only one I will ever use.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Apr 21, 2013)

menuink said:


> Bumping this forward.... don't want it to get lost without getting a cool opninon or two! (Pun Intended!)


 if it's pure veg then go with a t5 system. take up a lot less room; will reduce your heat and even mix in a bulb or two (depending on how many bulbs are in your fixture) of flower spectrum bulbs (2700k). that will give you a nice balanced spectrum for veg. plus, t5's are just fine for 3 week veg. after that you run into light penetration problems.


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## menuink (Apr 21, 2013)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> if it's pure veg then go with a t5 system. take up a lot less room; will reduce your heat and even mix in a bulb or two (depending on how many bulbs are in your fixture) of flower spectrum bulbs (2700k). that will give you a nice balanced spectrum for veg. plus, t5's are just fine for 3 week veg. after that you run into light penetration problems.


Awesome! Thanks for the input!


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## cobragro (Apr 23, 2013)

OK, well with lights taken care of that's about it. Thanks for all the help Scooby. I'm sure I'll be talking to you later.


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## cobragro (Apr 23, 2013)

Thanks Wheels.


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## cobragro (May 2, 2013)

Hey Scooby! You still with us? Awful quiet, oh well, enjoy it while you can. Just read earlier post on this thread where you recommended the EcoFoil reflective , and if you want somewhat insulated. This stuff is great for grow rooms. You guys check it out, you can get insulated, non-insulated, perforated, non-perforated, and all with excellent reflective quality and gas tight if that's what you want. Read this mans threads; you will be eternally grateful.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (May 2, 2013)

Haha, thanks man. Kind of you to say. I'm still around. Go check out my thread Costa Rican Garden Show in my signature. I post there mostly right now. I also have a cool video in my signature of what I do in my spare time for fun. Working on a cliff diving video we made with GoPro cameras right now. Goddam YouTube won't let me use any of the music I keep laying over the footage. LOL.


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## cobragro (May 3, 2013)

Sounds good Scoob. Cliff diving!!!! Believe I'll stick with this. Hey, be careful, talk to you soon.


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## galaxy1965 (May 31, 2013)

After going over these threads for months, I've decided to go for it and build my own grow room. Scooby I would love your input. I've attached a schematic of the room I have available to grow. I will be growing organically using Sub's super soil. Ace of Spades is the strain I will be growing from clones. I want to get as much yield as I can. I have a 50amp subpanel going into the closet. The footprint for this strain using mainlining has been estimated at 28in in diameter. The three vents in the window are 6, 8 and 10" inches. So here is what I would like to know. I want to use the closet for a veg room. It is really small so I need to know the best way to utilize the space. I want to grow a perpetual garden harvesting 24 plants at a time. Using T5 lighting in veg room and 1000w Hps in the flower room. I could use input in lighting setup and also suggestions for reflective materials, humidity control, Co2 and waterproofing the floor. (I'm renting so tearing out the carpet is not an option.) The ceiling is 8ft tall. The light hoods will be 8in and air cooled. Will install a Carbon Filter 16x39 Can Filter 150 10in 1400cfm/flange. Also have 6, 8, and 10in max can fans. I will have pictures of the rooms posted by tomorrow. I'm sorry this post is so long but I wanted to give as much information as I could the first time around. Thanks in advance to anyone who offers assistance.


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## galaxy1965 (Jun 7, 2013)

No one has any feedback?


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## Tsanford (Jun 8, 2013)

Hey guys, just wondering if I could get some advice for floorplan and such for my grow I am planning on.

Currently its planned for a 11x11x9 room with a window that will be fitted with a 15,000BTU A/C.
I am planning on building it from 2x2's and pandafilm. 

I would like to incorporate a flower room, veg & mothers room, and a drying room into the 11x11 room that I have. Currently I am thinking a 5x10 for the flower, 3x5 for veg, and 2x4 for drying. I plan on butting up this structure to the window, so that the A/C is actually sealed within the wooden pandafilm "tent", and I am planning on running Co2. I haven't decided yet If I will have 2x 1000w or 3-4x 600w for the flower, but at least a 400 for the veg. I plan on having all HID's on closed circuits routed outside through a window.

I was thinking about building an undercurrent setup for flower, haven't came up with an idea for the veg system. I have 2 mothers in bubble buckets ATM that are about 1.5 months old, getting up to size for the grow to begin in the next 6 weeks.

I would appreciate any input as far as the floor plan and or any other aspects of the setup. I drew up this sketchup model for my current idea, but am open to ideas!


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## wheels619 (Jun 8, 2013)

Tsanford said:


> Hey guys, just wondering if I could get some advice for floorplan and such for my grow I am planning on.
> 
> Currently its planned for a 11x11x9 room with a window that will be fitted with a 15,000BTU A/C.
> I am planning on building it from 2x2's and pandafilm.
> ...


dude. ac already in place. id co2 that shit 5x10 flower 5x5 veg. flat white the walls and then make make shift rooms. the ac makes your day. trust me. no heat isueas whats so ever if done right. also my firend jack daniels speaks for me but its what id have done in your position.


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## Tsanford (Jun 9, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> dude. ac already in place. id co2 that shit 5x10 flower 5x5 veg. flat white the walls and then make make shift rooms. the ac makes your day. trust me. no heat isueas whats so ever if done right. also my firend jack daniels speaks for me but its what id have done in your position.


By shift rooms, do you mean an area to do trim work and such without smell leaking?


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## wheels619 (Jun 9, 2013)

Tsanford said:


> By shift rooms, do you mean an area to do trim work and such without smell leaking?


make shift. fabricated walls with panda film and 2x2s or 2x3s.


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## Tsanford (Jun 9, 2013)

wheels619 said:


> make shift. fabricated walls with panda film and 2x2s or 2x3s.


Oh I misread, that's what I said I was doing. For a 5x10 flower, how big of a drying room would you say I need?


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## wheels619 (Jun 9, 2013)

Tsanford said:


> Oh I misread, that's what I said I was doing. For a 5x10 flower, how big of a drying room would you say I need?


depends on how many and or how big your plants are. also varies on how crafty you are at hanging them. lol.


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## galaxy1965 (Jun 10, 2013)

WTF? Am I just vapor here. Am I missing some protocol or something?


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## djwimbo (Jun 11, 2013)

I'll try posting this here, instead of starting a thread for this.

I'm helping a friend set up a new space, no I really mean a friend. If you want to see what I've been doing, click the sig.

Basically dealing with an attic grow, we've pretty much narrowed it down to veg under fluoro's and flower under HID. The space overall is about 16ftx7.5ft, with a peaked roof, 44" height at the edge, 58" height at the center. Obviously limited on height, so we have to work around that. veg 4, flower 4. So far the idea is to have them all on skates/carts so moving is easy, and to have a 24x24" scrog net over them. The four flowering will be in-line, making the main flowering area 24" wide, 96" long and 58" high. I talked him into running 3x 400w CMH instead of 2x 600w HPS to cover that area, but I'm not as up on the "rules" of HID's these days as I used to be. I also suggested "CoolTubes" to keep the cost down. I'm figuring ~14" of space between the canopy during flower, and possibly hempy 5G buckets, but those are yet to be determined. Ideally not DWC, although both of us want to try it.

Main questions I want some input on.
#1: will 3x cooltubes in a line be an issue?
#2: what CFM would be required to cool 3 successive lights VS each individually?
#3: Anybody using a Lumatek with a CMH? (I need a refresher on fine details of the CMH stuff)
#4: BTU's, I don't know how many BTU's a CMH puts out, or if it differs from any other 400w HID.


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