# White Widow Waterfarm. 1st Journal on the forums.



## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 12, 2010)

Hey all, so this is my first time starting a journal on the forums and my first time with hydro. I have been growing in soil for a few years now and am finally going to get my feet wet with hydro.

Specs:
400W MH/HPS
2 4in Can fans
1 WaterFarm
1 Nutrient Flora Nova

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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 12, 2010)

Well so far the Ph just keeps rising, I just have to keep monitoring/adjusting it.

All tips and suggestions are welcome as stated above this is my first time with hydro.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 12, 2010)

New pics.

She seems too be poking out I hope to see some leaves tomorrow morning.

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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 13, 2010)

Self bump since no one cares to even comment.


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## reefcouple (Oct 13, 2010)

so you still having PH problems? What water ya using? RO? Tap? And what are you using to balance it? I used to grow WW often and I kept my PH at 6.0 on the button and the girls loved it.. 
When I mixed my tap water thats been sitting in 5 gallon buckets with my RO water 50/50 it balanced out nicely and held there for the week.. just an idea for ya.. RO I find goes off kilter alot quicker.. But my mixing the tap and RO i never needed to add cal/mag..


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 13, 2010)

reefcouple said:


> so you still having PH problems? What water ya using? RO? Tap? And what are you using to balance it? I used to grow WW often and I kept my PH at 6.0 on the button and the girls loved it..
> When I mixed my tap water thats been sitting in 5 gallon buckets with my RO water 50/50 it balanced out nicely and held there for the week.. just an idea for ya.. RO I find goes off kilter alot quicker.. But my mixing the tap and RO i never needed to add cal/mag..


 I am using RO water I bought from the store, but I just got a Brita water filter and will be using that, it is all I can afford. I am having less and less problems with Ph I never actually soaked the Hydroten so I think that was the issues.


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Oct 13, 2010)

Hey man!

Glad to see your getting off to a good start... dont worry about the PH right now. PH main concern is nute lockout.. adjusting the PH up and down and up and down will do more damage then good, the roots will accumulate to the ph.. you dont need any nutes for 2 weeks, when you start adding the Flora Nova bloom it has PH buffers and will self adjust the PH for you.. you may need some cal-mag later during flower since you using RO water...

BTW you dont need the root plugs.. introducing orgainics to hydro is probly why your smelling somthing funny in your water.. when the tap root is 1/2 inch long I insert it in the hydroton so it automaticly adjust to the grow media..


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 13, 2010)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> Hey man!
> 
> Glad to see your getting off to a good start... dont worry about the PH right now. PH main concern is nute lockout.. adjusting the PH up and down and up and down will do more damage then good, the roots will accumulate to the ph.. you dont need any nutes for 2 weeks, when you start adding the Flora Nova bloom it has PH buffers and will self adjust the PH for you.. you may need some cal-mag later during flower since you using RO water...
> 
> BTW you dont need the root plugs.. introducing orgainics to hydro is probly why your smelling somthing funny in your water.. when the tap root is 1/2 inch long I insert it in the hydroton so it automaticly adjust to the grow media..


Ok, I will take the plug apart and get that root out. I just took everything apart and I am soaking the hydroton, I never did that just washed it. I noticed bubbles and it smelled like a dirty fish tank so I got them soaking in Ph 5.1 water and a little florakleen in it. Tomorrow I will set the system back up it just smelt so dirty right at the start.


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## jesus of Cannabis (Oct 13, 2010)

with the plant being so young I wouldnt even start the nutes until the 2-3rdth week of veg., but thats me.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 13, 2010)

I am going to keep my seedling in the root plug becasue I have all the hydroten soaking overnight. I plan on taking it out of the plug tomorrow and putting it directly in the hydroten, good idea or bad?


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## jesus of Cannabis (Oct 13, 2010)

it works either way.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 13, 2010)

jesus of Cannabis said:


> with the plant being so young I wouldnt even start the nutes until the 2-3rdth week of veg., but thats me.


 Jasus of Cannabis with a picture of Darwin Fuck Yea.


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## jesus of Cannabis (Oct 13, 2010)

you are the first person to get the "joke"
+rep


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## remi11 (Oct 13, 2010)

helll yaaaa this is sooooo awesome i too started a white widow seed dropped it in 6 days ago. i was inspired by SCOTTYBALLS journal and also have the water farm. sucks i think my bulb was going out so i had to switch to an emergency dual 4ft flourescent shoplight lol atleast till i get a bulb. cant wait to see how your goes


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 13, 2010)

remi11 said:


> helll yaaaa this is sooooo awesome i too started a white widow seed dropped it in 6 days ago. i was inspired by SCOTTYBALLS journal and also have the water farm. sucks i think my bulb was going out so i had to switch to an emergency dual 4ft flourescent shoplight lol atleast till i get a bulb. cant wait to see how your goes


 Yes ScottyBalls is awsome he has inspired so many. But I am rewashing my hyrdroten my whitewidow seedling looks weird, it is popping out of the plug but the two leaves are just white, it has been in the light all day hoperfully tomorrow it will be green and open if not I will post pics.


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## venacular (Oct 13, 2010)

great job! I love to see Waterfarm grows as that was my first hydro system also. That's gonna be one monster plant! Keep it up.


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Oct 13, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Yes ScottyBalls is awsome he has inspired so many. But I am rewashing my hyrdroten my whitewidow seedling looks weird, it is popping out of the plug but the two leaves are just white, it has been in the light all day hoperfully tomorrow it will be green and open if not I will post pics.


Dont worry about the first to leaves they will always be white till they start to produce chlorophil.. and be really carfull if when you take the seedling out of the plug rinse in water till the plug falls apart.. then move the hyrdroton out from the center so you can get the seedling down below a few layers as it gets taller start to move in hydroton for suport and extra root formation...


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 14, 2010)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> Dont worry about the first to leaves they will always be white till they start to produce chlorophil.. and be really carfull if when you take the seedling out of the plug rinse in water till the plug falls apart.. then move the hyrdroton out from the center so you can get the seedling down below a few layers as it gets taller start to move in hydroton for suport and extra root formation...


Ok, I got pics its still white, might be a little stress from all of this nonsense I put it through. I should have tested my methods out on bag seed first to make sure I had a fluid plan but no worries I have a female cole train seed as backup, and I will be ordering seeds in a few weeks.

I am seeting up my unit as I type this so I will be gently putting her in their whish me luck.

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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 14, 2010)

The stem just below the cotyledon is a little green which is good I guess, but the leaves themselves aren't green and still haven't separated it doesn't look happy. I am use to soil usualy all my sprouts usually pop up green and ready too go. Do you think I should start to germ my cole train or give it another day.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 14, 2010)

Got her out of the plug and into the hydroten, I have her covered up so no light gets down to the roots, lets hope she makes it.

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## T.M.B (Oct 14, 2010)

man this is great seeing another waterfarm grow going, i was so blown away by scottyballs grow that i have changed all my plans.one thing i cant figure out is what the heck is RO water.i have city water and that is puzzleing me on what i am going to use already checking on filters.also glad to learn from you about soaking that hydroton that would have fucked me up as well.i can see i will learn off your grow as well thanks.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 14, 2010)

T.M.B said:


> man this is great seeing another waterfarm grow going, i was so blown away by scottyballs grow that i have changed all my plans.one thing i cant figure out is what the heck is RO water.i have city water and that is puzzleing me on what i am going to use already checking on filters.also glad to learn from you about soaking that hydroton that would have fucked me up as well.i can see i will learn off your grow as well thanks.


 Yea soak and agitate the shit out of your hydroten the buckets make a nice strainer so use them. But RO water is reverse Osmosis water, make sure u let your water sit so no chlorine is in it.


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## reefcouple (Oct 14, 2010)

T.M.B said:


> man this is great seeing another waterfarm grow going, i was so blown away by scottyballs grow that i have changed all my plans.one thing i cant figure out is what the heck is RO water.i have city water and that is puzzleing me on what i am going to use already checking on filters.also glad to learn from you about soaking that hydroton that would have fucked me up as well.i can see i will learn off your grow as well thanks.


RO= Reverse Osmosis, it has fewer metals, such as chlorine and floride.. Much better for your plants.. But its also missing Calcium and magnesium which your tap has..
What I do is fill a few 5 gallon pails with tap water, let it sit for 3 days so the chlorine evaporates then I mix it 50/50 with RO water.. This enables me to not add cal/mag and helps stabilizes the ph levels..

Hope that helps, many ppl do it differently.. But if you use tap exclusively..let it stand for a few days prior to use..


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## T.M.B (Oct 14, 2010)

thanks for clearing that up guys years ago in soil grows i used all creek water great results never even checked it.i still live by a creek now was gonna do my same method as years ago but as i said scottyballs has changed my vision,and i dont think the creek water would be as good in the waterfarm.i also did investigate those CMH bulbs and they are the ticket good from start to finish with a very full light spectrum. this new plan will definately save some cash setting up as well and less to operate so glad i found you guys my shipment came from attitude yesterday and i am so rdy to get going.


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## remi11 (Oct 15, 2010)

Ya attitude is awesome I order two single fem white widow and they gave be a DNA sour cream Fem. Planted the white widow and so far everything is great I still have to get another bulb for my hps but its doing just find under the flourescent. I could post a pic if jim don't mind and ya to rinse out the hydroton I just but in the 2gallon bucket that I drilled MORE holes in and just rinse till water ran clear. ALMOST didn't lol but ya this water farm looks great and promising can't wait to see how it turn out jim. DEF subscribed.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 15, 2010)

remi11 said:


> Ya attitude is awesome I order two single fem white widow and they gave be a DNA sour cream Fem. Planted the white widow and so far everything is great I still have to get another bulb for my hps but its doing just find under the flourescent. I could post a pic if jim don't mind and ya to rinse out the hydroton I just but in the 2gallon bucket that I drilled MORE holes in and just rinse till water ran clear. ALMOST didn't lol but ya this water farm looks great and promising can't wait to see how it turn out jim. DEF subscribed.


 You can post pics no worries.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 15, 2010)

Update.

I have been germing my cole train seed since yesterday and I made the right move. The white widow seed is not growing its still white I have never seen a seedling do that. I either stressed it out from moving it out of my res and out of the plug or it was doomed from the begining.

Anyways how can I change the title of this thread from White Widow to Cole Train?


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## rotunda1887 (Oct 15, 2010)

Don't know how to or if you can even change a thread name. I was also on board for Master Scotty's thread. I am a noob and I had purchased a GH power grower module that I planned to use for a Mom but have decided to try Scotty's method instead and have started a 3rd grow. I am growing Barney's Vanilla Kush from attitude. I started in a rootplug as well uner florescent and it has its first set of true leaves. I will be moving it to the power grower this weekend. I've done a lot of research and I don't think that the super plug should cause a problem (keeping fingers crossed).

Since I currently have an autoflower grow going under 600watts in a 4ft tent I am going to use my 200watt CFL until that grow finishes in a few weeks. I also have a 2nd grow (3 OG kush, 1 Sour Kush and 1 Bubba Kush) that will go to flowering as soon as the autoflowers come out This new grow is going into a darkroom DR80 tent and I will be using 400 watt HPS and a SCROG with flora nova bloom. I have been using Advanced Nutrients and a number of their add-ons (plants are looking great) but after finding Scotty's thread, I think I will be selling the large tent and 600 watt equip on ebay when the 5 kush plants are finally done. Good luck on your grow Jim!


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## remi11 (Oct 15, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> You can post pics no worries.




this is how shes doing right now pretty much EXACTLY 8 days from dropping the seed in the plug. notice the flourescent due to my bulb going on and off on my hps. ONLY TEMPORARY. and sorry to hear that JIM about yours. was excited to have someone growing the same strain with almost the sae method. but atleast you have the cole train germ'd


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## remi11 (Oct 15, 2010)

...(repost)


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 15, 2010)

remi11 said:


> View attachment 1214930View attachment 1214929View attachment 1214927
> 
> View attachment 1214926this is how shes doing right now pretty much EXACTLY 8 days from dropping the seed in the plug. notice the flourescent due to my bulb going on and off on my hps. ONLY TEMPORARY. and sorry to hear that JIM about yours. was excited to have someone growing the same strain with almost the sae method. but atleast you have the cole train germ'd


Awesome reminds me just like where I grow, I am going to use the plugs again I have the cole train germing, how and when do you put the seed in their. I feel like I fucked my white widow up maybe I messed it up by pouring water on it. But your seedling reminds me of what my soil seedlings look like I need that with my cole train seed it is my last female seed for a bit.


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## myselfship (Oct 16, 2010)

I have a Waterfarm myself, and the Ph does tend to be a bit high. I'm pretty sure it's due to the hydroton pellets. It's not as much of an issue now for me, plus my flowering nutrients lower the Ph level, so that should become less of a problem. I started mine in an AG first though.


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## remi11 (Oct 16, 2010)

All I did was soak the plug completely put it in the water farm took the seed out the freezer and drop her in. Left the water one the water farm going and the lights on tore a little piece off the corner of the plug to cover the seed and 3 days later she broke the "soil" sooo I don't know everytime I do it this way making sure temps are correct and all it works but EVERYTIME I try the paper towel it doesn't soooo iiii don't know I figure keep things simple. Even though most simplest I think would be like SCOTTYBALLS by just dropping the seed dirrectly in the hydroton. GL Jim ur first one was probably too much stress. I try. Not to mess with the seeding for the first two weeks and make sure everything is correct and ready before I drop it in so I'm not having to do anything in that two weeks except water a few drops when I see the surface of the plug drying up


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## remi11 (Oct 16, 2010)

Lol sorry for the novel. Was a bit lifted lol


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 16, 2010)

remi11 said:


> All I did was soak the plug completely put it in the water farm took the seed out the freezer and drop her in. Left the water one the water farm going and the lights on tore a little piece off the corner of the plug to cover the seed and 3 days later she broke the "soil" sooo I don't know everytime I do it this way making sure temps are correct and all it works but EVERYTIME I try the paper towel it doesn't soooo iiii don't know I figure keep things simple. Even though most simplest I think would be like SCOTTYBALLS by just dropping the seed dirrectly in the hydroton. GL Jim ur first one was probably too much stress. I try. Not to mess with the seeding for the first two weeks and make sure everything is correct and ready before I drop it in so I'm not having to do anything in that two weeks except water a few drops when I see the surface of the plug drying up


 I see I will have too do that trick with covering the hole I kept noticing the light was shooting down that hole didnt know if it was supposed to do that. Damn soil was always so easy to germ, or I just suck.

Dont worry about the long post im not afraid to read unlike most of my generation.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 16, 2010)

My tent stays around 80-83 never goes higher. I have my air pump on the outside of my tent so it doesn't pump hot air into my res, do I have to monitor the res's temperature or is 80 a good temp for the tent to be.


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## remi11 (Oct 17, 2010)

Ya mine usually stays about 79 consistantly. I never let it get above 85 or below 75 so ya u shoul be just fine


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## T.M.B (Oct 17, 2010)

hey Jim sucks about the ww i know for my first go at this i am not going to use my favorite seeds out of my collection'had a ? for you though i am really struggling on what test meter to get i see prices go from pretty low to pretty outragious any reccomendations also kinda confused about these calibration liquids how do you know what one to get i think once i understand this a little better i will feel relieved thanks for any help. as soon as i can get my electrician over here ill be in the game with you.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 17, 2010)

T.M.B said:


> hey Jim sucks about the ww i know for my first go at this i am not going to use my favorite seeds out of my collection'had a ? for you though i am really struggling on what test meter to get i see prices go from pretty low to pretty outragious any reccomendations also kinda confused about these calibration liquids how do you know what one to get i think once i understand this a little better i will feel relieved thanks for any help. as soon as i can get my electrician over here ill be in the game with you.


 http://www.eseasongear.com/

This website has all the answers for you look at the Hanna ones they are cheap and good quality I hear. Yea screw the WW seed it was free I got the other free seed Cole train going in the plug she shot up and I will post pics as soon as I see some leaves... Fingers Crosed.


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## Spoc (Oct 22, 2010)

Hows it going for you Jim? Are these Waterfarms easy to operate? After looking through Scottys thread; a Waterfarm seems like the right fit..


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 26, 2010)

Update, the Cole Train is doing great Ph is stable and my temps are 78-80.

Here are some pics, I have hooked up my 4in Can Fan to pump some fresh air into the tent.
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The first three are from the 25th.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 26, 2010)

Spoc said:


> Hows it going for you Jim? Are these Waterfarms easy to operate? After looking through Scottys thread; a Waterfarm seems like the right fit..


 They are almost too easy to operate just a nice and simple system.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 27, 2010)

I took some more pictures just to show how fast it is growing, I cant believe it grew that much in one day.

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## jesus of Cannabis (Oct 27, 2010)

Looks good m8. I am doing WW too and my first clones are almost ready to be transplanted


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 28, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I took some more pictures just to show how fast it is growing, I cant believe it grew that much in one day.
> 
> View attachment 1236674View attachment 1236677View attachment 1236679


 got any tips for cloning my buddy tried it but none of them rooted.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 28, 2010)

10-28-10
I am going to try and do a daily update to show the rapid progression from this hydro setup, I have to say I am very impressed with the performance.

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## upthearsenal (Oct 28, 2010)

Nice job man, she looks healthy


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 29, 2010)

Update.

Someone asked me about how the drain worked so I snapped a pic somehow I didn't drop my phone.

Also I had to move the setup to a buddy's house I just couldnt keep the temps stable.

Anyways here are the pics,
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## Spoc (Oct 29, 2010)

jim..Got a couple basic questions for you. After you set you rez with the proper nutes and the following day you check and adjust. Am I topping off with fresh ph water or nute solution? Say the ppms are at 650 , do you wait till the ppms register zero before feeding again? What is your routine the following day? Sorry for my lack of knowledge in advance as I'm sure the hounds are out.....


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 29, 2010)

Spoc said:


> jim..Got a couple basic questions for you. After you set you rez with the proper nutes and the following day you check and adjust. Am I topping off with fresh ph water or nute solution? Say the ppms are at 650 , do you wait till the ppms register zero before feeding again? What is your routine the following day? Sorry for my lack of knowledge in advance as I'm sure the hounds are out.....


 No I think you are supposed to change the water every few days, this is my first hydro grow so I am not the right person to ask maybe someone more experienced can help.


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## remi11 (Oct 30, 2010)

I know scotty was saying he would change a few day after he topped it off. I was reading through his jounal AGAIN lol but ya I'm probably due for a resevoir change myself I'm on day 23 still smaler than I like but other than a few tips burnt from being to close to the flouro I think its looking healthy ill try to post a few pics later if ud like jim this is all off my phone (no comp) lol and glad to see this ones working for u jim.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 30, 2010)

remi11 said:


> I know scotty was saying he would change a few day after he topped it off. I was reading through his jounal AGAIN lol but ya I'm probably due for a resevoir change myself I'm on day 23 still smaler than I like but other than a few tips burnt from being to close to the flouro I think its looking healthy ill try to post a few pics later if ud like jim this is all off my phone (no comp) lol and glad to see this ones working for u jim.


 Lol are you browsing on your phone, I wish this site would make a app so it was formatted for the phone.


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## remi11 (Oct 30, 2010)

Ya the only way I can browse is on my phone cause both my laptops went down. And this site seems to work great with the android platform. I just need to figure out how to upload photos lol


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 30, 2010)

remi11 said:


> Ya the only way I can browse is on my phone cause both my laptops went down. And this site seems to work great with the android platform. I just need to figure out how to upload photos lol


 Yea I have a galaxy s phone, I couldn't log in though it just wouldn't let me do it.

Thats a tough one uploading I had a idea but then I thought about it more and no good luck let me know if you figure it out.


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## remi11 (Oct 31, 2010)

Sooo what's up with the updates? Lol


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 31, 2010)

Here is a update everything is going good I think I will start adding nutrients tomorrow I will be doing a very light dose.

These are from 10-30
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And these are from today.
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## SCOTTYBALLS (Oct 31, 2010)

Go ahead and give her the first shot of nuts about 1/2 tsp per gallon right about now is the perfect time to start the feedings


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 31, 2010)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> Go ahead and give her the first shot of nuts about 1/2 tsp per gallon right about now is the perfect time to start the feedings


 Should I just drain as much water out as possible and then pour in two gallons of the light nutrient solution?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Oct 31, 2010)

Alright so I added the nutrients now what do I do next, do I wait a few days and flush the nutrient solution out and give her fresh water for a few days?


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## Spoc (Oct 31, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Alright so I added the nutrients now what do I do next, do I wait a few days and flush the nutrient solution out and give her fresh water for a few days?


From what I've read from two other members jim, is to top off your rez daily with ph corrected water until the water you have replaced equals the capacity of the rez. It's a two gallon rez so when you have topped off with 2 gallons, next day drain and replace with fresh nute solution.


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Nov 1, 2010)

Every day top off with fresh water till the water level is at least up to the white line on the drain tube.. and like spoc said once you have added 2 gallons of fresh water you can drain and replace with a fresh batch of nutes.. I dont use PH balaced water like some.. When I top off with my tap water It will hit about 6.1 after adding fresh water.. a few hours later it will be 5.9-5.4 ... its ok to let you PH move around.. it allows the plant to pick up things it normally could not. If you forced it at 5.8 24/7 ... that would be like you eating chicken everyday for every meal for the rest of your life.. I love my baby mj's I would never do that to them


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 1, 2010)

Spoc said:


> From what I've read from two other members jim, is to top off your rez daily with ph corrected water until the water you have replaced equals the capacity of the rez. It's a two gallon rez so when you have topped off with 2 gallons, next day drain and replace with fresh nute solution.


 Thanks Spoc.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 1, 2010)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> Every day top off with fresh water till the water level is at least up to the white line on the drain tube.. and like spoc said once you have added 2 gallons of fresh water you can drain and replace with a fresh batch of nutes.. I dont use PH balaced water like some.. When I top off with my tap water It will hit about 6.1 after adding fresh water.. a few hours later it will be 5.9-5.4 ... its ok to let you PH move around.. it allows the plant to pick up things it normally could not. If you forced it at 5.8 24/7 ... that would be like you eating chicken everyday for every meal for the rest of your life.. I love my baby mj's I would never do that to them


 Thanks Scotty, I will probably set the Ph to 5.5 and let it slowly rise up to 6.0 so they can absorb everything.

Is Ph fluctuation not a problem in Hydro?


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Nov 1, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Thanks Scotty, I will probably set the Ph to 5.5 and let it slowly rise up to 6.0 so they can absorb everything.
> 
> Is Ph fluctuation not a problem in Hydro?


can be depending on your water quality.. I use to live in a area where tap was 320ppm had so much calcium you could see it floating around in a clear glass.. I would bring the PH down to 5.2 and a hour later it would be back up in the 7's .. I fixed it with RO... I also beleave if you have decent quality water the plant itself can help adjust the ph to its needs.. I have not used PH up or Down in over 5 yrs.. The PH buffers in flora Nova are extreamly good compard to most nutes wich also contributed to me not having to use PH up and Down


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## remi11 (Nov 1, 2010)

Looking good jim about how mine looks and I'm on day 24  but I think I added nutes too early and got some nute burn which I'm hoping just caused it to grow slower not to mention not having a ph meter  but there's still new growth coming up so I think I'm ok so far wish I had a way to get pics up but ya looks real good jim


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## remi11 (Nov 1, 2010)

Just read scottys post on here and eases my mind on not having a ph meter and yes SCOTTY the calcium in the water here in san antonio is baddddd like u say u can see it so I set it out for 24hrs before adding. Man I love this site lol


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 1, 2010)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> can be depending on your water quality.. I use to live in a area where tap was 320ppm had so much calcium you could see it floating around in a clear glass.. I would bring the PH down to 5.2 and a hour later it would be back up in the 7's .. I fixed it with RO... I also beleave if you have decent quality water the plant itself can help adjust the ph to its needs.. I have not used PH up or Down in over 5 yrs.. The PH buffers in flora Nova are extreamly good compard to most nutes wich also contributed to me not having to use PH up and Down


 I am on a mission to find out my water quality, I have a sneaking suspicion it isn't that great but I hope I am proved wrong.

My Ph was 4.8 last night around 1a.m. and then this morning at 9 it was at 6.3 it does go up but if I just add a tiny tiny bit of Ph down once a day it seems to keep it stable.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 1, 2010)

remi11 said:


> Looking good jim about how mine looks and I'm on day 24  but I think I added nutes too early and got some nute burn which I'm hoping just caused it to grow slower not to mention not having a ph meter  but there's still new growth coming up so I think I'm ok so far wish I had a way to get pics up but ya looks real good jim


 Could just be the strain too what are you growing again?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 1, 2010)

I can afford to supplement RO water from the store probably 50% of the watering. I really hate wasting all that plastic though, I am using a Brita filter that should take most of the unwanted crap out of my tap water correct.


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## upthearsenal (Nov 1, 2010)

I've heard mixed things about Brita, although I'm sure it improves the water. Idk about where you live, but where I live we have these things called "Water Mills" which are located on the corner of streets typically, and you just take a 3-5gal reusable jug and just fill it up with distilled water for about $1.25.

A bit off topic, but do you think it's a good idea to have two plants in a waterfarm?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 1, 2010)

upthearsenal said:


> I've heard mixed things about Brita, although I'm sure it improves the water. Idk about where you live, but where I live we have these things called "Water Mills" which are located on the corner of streets typically, and you just take a 3-5gal reusable jug and just fill it up with distilled water for about $1.25.
> 
> A bit off topic, but do you think it's a good idea to have two plants in a waterfarm?


I wouldnt put two plants in one WaterFarm incase one of the plants hermes or is a male or if it just dies you will never get the roots out and the dead roots will just rot causeing fungus to grow and eventually killing your other plant I am pretty sure that is a possibility.

I do have a water mill type place I have never been there but I saw on there sign some prices one day they weren't that cheap but I probably should go there and find out because they have a drive through window so I would love going through there.

So is distilled better for hydro or Reverse Osmosis?


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## upthearsenal (Nov 1, 2010)

I have no idea if distilled is better, I'm sure someone more experienced can chime in, yet for me, it's a lot better than my tap. I get the Water Mill water with a pH of 6.8, and ppm of around 40, to me that's good for sure. 

Good points as far as having two plants per WF, I would have never though about the root thing.

Great avi by the way!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 1, 2010)

upthearsenal said:


> I have no idea if distilled is better, I'm sure someone more experienced can chime in, yet for me, it's a lot better than my tap. I get the Water Mill water with a pH of 6.8, and ppm of around 40, to me that's good for sure.
> 
> Good points as far as having two plants per WF, I would have never though about the root thing.
> 
> Great avi by the way!


Yea I love that picture there is another one thats funny too. I am not trying to stir up trouble they are just funny pictures.

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## SCOTTYBALLS (Nov 1, 2010)

Just to let you guys know you can get a RO system for right around $100 here is a random buy now that I found on ebay there are some for under $100 beats the hell out of buying water.. I had a cheap system like this and it took my 340ppm tap down to 0.3ppm not even 1 part per million

http://cgi.ebay.com/Reverse-Osmosis-Water-Filter-Systems-4-stage-105-GPD-/140452349896

also I forgot who mentioned it in the page before but leaving the water out dose not help with PH it just lets the chlorine evaporate..


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 1, 2010)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> Just to let you guys know you can get a RO system for right around $100 here is a random buy now that I found on ebay there are some for under $100 beats the hell out of buying water.. I had a cheap system like this and it took my 340ppm tap down to 0.3ppm not even 1 part per million
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Reverse-Osmosis-Water-Filter-Systems-4-stage-105-GPD-/140452349896
> 
> also I forgot who mentioned it in the page before but leaving the water out dose not help with PH it just lets the chlorine evaporate..


I cant afford it right now just invested over $300 into my fish tank(Stupid Fish). But I will save and after this is completed I will buy one, I need one anyways to make a saltwater tank. Thats a pretty good price too also free shipping is always good.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 1, 2010)

So after adding the nutrients it seems to be more green and growing stronger and faster. My Ph is still rising alot I think I will get some RO water from the store and see if I get better results.

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## remi11 (Nov 2, 2010)

Hell ya looking good jim oh an I am growing seedsman ww which I've been reading and seems not to like nutes for the first month I can already see the yellowing on the tips going away and now can actually notice it growing have in mind I do visit my girl abojut 3-5 times a day. But yours is looking great


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 2, 2010)

remi11 said:


> Hell ya looking good jim oh an I am growing seedsman ww which I've been reading and seems not to like nutes for the first month I can already see the yellowing on the tips going away and now can actually notice it growing have in mind I do visit my girl abojut 3-5 times a day. But yours is looking great


 Yea remember its no longer White Widow I am growing Cole Train, I wish I could change the title. I didn't know if you were comparing them thinking it was still White Widow, that bastard seed was so weird just never turned green.


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## remi11 (Nov 2, 2010)

Oh ya na I know u started a diff strain lol but ya its looking good here's a pic from a few days finally figured just download the photobucket app lol its all crappy due to it being a camera phone


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## remi11 (Nov 2, 2010)




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## remi11 (Nov 2, 2010)

Whoa..... why's it sooooo big


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 2, 2010)

remi11 said:


> Oh ya na I know u started a diff strain lol but ya its looking good here's a pic from a few days finally figured just download the photobucket app lol its all crappy due to it being a camera phone


 Nice she looks great man. post more pics as she progresses.


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## remi11 (Nov 3, 2010)

Ok here a clearer one when I turned the lights back on 26 days from seed.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 3, 2010)

So she is still looking great, my two bottom leaves have some spots on the tips of the leaves but I know they will be long gone soon anyways, but there are also some spots starting on my other leaves nothing serious looking. I know I am just being paranoid but I have had disasters in the past and since I only have one here I cant fuck this up.

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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 4, 2010)

Another update, its doing great the roots are shooting through the bottom.
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## remi11 (Nov 9, 2010)

updates?


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## T.M.B (Nov 9, 2010)

glad things are comin along,well my room is done i went with 2 400w cmh room stays at about 76 degrees after running for about 8 hour test happy with that.I have 4 waterfarms only starting off with 2 to start with been running the farm for two days even after cleaning the hydroton first to make sure all is clean, bigger air pump has em spitting fantastic.The seeds went in the germ bag tonight,the one thing i need help on is on can i go right into my grow room or do i need to start them under flouresence first?I do have light hangers and tall ceilings so i can have the lights pretty far away,I am sprouting a pe fem and a sharksbreath fem sorry to write a book on your thread but i know you were hip on scottyballs grow as well appreciate any help thanks.oh and i built a kick as scrog table 6ft by 4ft with garden fence squares are 2inch by 3inch i thnk i would have struggled with that chicken wire.wish i had a camera to show my room did come out sweet.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 10, 2010)

remi11 said:


> updates?


 Ill have some up tonight she is much bigger.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 10, 2010)

T.M.B said:


> glad things are comin along,well my room is done i went with 2 400w cmh room stays at about 76 degrees after running for about 8 hour test happy with that.I have 4 waterfarms only starting off with 2 to start with been running the farm for two days even after cleaning the hydroton first to make sure all is clean, bigger air pump has em spitting fantastic.The seeds went in the germ bag tonight,the one thing i need help on is on can i go right into my grow room or do i need to start them under flouresence first?I do have light hangers and tall ceilings so i can have the lights pretty far away,I am sprouting a pe fem and a sharksbreath fem sorry to write a book on your thread but i know you were hip on scottyballs grow as well appreciate any help thanks.oh and i built a kick as scrog table 6ft by 4ft with garden fence squares are 2inch by 3inch i thnk i would have struggled with that chicken wire.wish i had a camera to show my room did come out sweet.


I put mine under my HID and I had no problems I had the light about 20inches above the plant.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 10, 2010)

So here is my update I just got done feeding here I think I had the beginning of P Deficiency so I feed her today I had already filled her up with 2 gallons of fresh water so it seemed time. But anyways I took some pics of the leaves that are fucked up hopefully they go away.
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## T.M.B (Nov 10, 2010)

Thanks for the reply Jim i just didnt want to fry the little bithes right off the bat,wasnt sure on Scotty because he said he kept two in rotation.thanks again.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 10, 2010)

T.M.B said:


> Thanks for the reply Jim i just didnt want to fry the little bithes right off the bat,wasnt sure on Scotty because he said he kept two in rotation.thanks again.


 2 ft will be good I just do the old hand trick to see if its too hot above my plant. I still haven't raised the light at all, I hope the curling on the sides of the leaves isn't heat stress it doesn't go above 79 in there but maybe I should raise it.


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Nov 13, 2010)

There is Nothing wrong with that plant just keep doing what your doing.


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## remi11 (Nov 13, 2010)

Man urs looks good mine has like the bottom leave what started at the tips only browning ended up takeing up most the leaf its cool cause they were only about the size of a quarter but I wonder if it was what started as nute burn and later turn to something else cause recently I notice some of the othe leave becoming dry.. so I spray some mist into the air and seems to helped but still as to a loss of what it all coulda been. And she still seem to be growing off ONE main root that breaks of into tons of other ones I though alllllllll these holes I screwed were for more roots WHERE ARE THEY lol well your is looking great jim nice to see u still got her was afraid u stopped after not seeing an update


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## superhigh21 (Nov 13, 2010)

yeah bro your doing good but remember plants dont grow when your looking at them to much


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 13, 2010)

superhigh21 said:


> yeah bro your doing good but remember plants dont grow when your looking at them to much


 lol I know right, its like people asking to witness evolution with their eyes.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 13, 2010)

Update, Look what I made. Unfortunittly I dropped the mesh on her twice accidentally and It bent the top dramatically I think she bruised too, I never knew marijuana could bruise.
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## upthearsenal (Nov 13, 2010)

Nice! that screen looks great can't wait to see it fill up.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 14, 2010)

I decided to make a charcoal filter today, my old one wasn't doing the trick so instead of buying a new one I made one. I smashed the charcoal forever but there were still some larger chunks and of course they were the ones that fell into the PVC pipe first but I will save all the nice smaller pieces for when this one isnt buffering so well. My exhaust fan is sucking in less air then before hopefully my temps dont raise.
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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 15, 2010)

So I noticed this thing growing and it looked like a preflower but im still vegging and its only been 4 weeks, I hope its nothing and not a male banana its a female seed but you never know. Anyways I am going to flip the lights to twelve/twelve Friday and I hope to see pistils in a couple of weeks otherwise I will be one angry person.
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## Megalith (Nov 15, 2010)

Im sub'd. I want to to first say nice grow. Now, you do not want your PH jumping "around" you want it stable. The way you get it stable is by observing. You know the target range but if you dont stablize it will always go one way or the other and when its too high or too low they dont get sqaut for nutes. You watch the PPM and the PH daily. Depending on your set-up most of us lose a liitle H20 to evapoation. When the PPM goes up the plants are taking more H20 than nutes. When they go down its getting more nutes than H20. When the PH goes up it means their taking in nutes which is good but it may be too little. When the PH goes down the nutes are too high. The trick is to monitor this and get it stable. The PH will stablize when the nute level is correct for your farm/system/plant. Its also good to know this si9nce your adding water and nutes daily or whatever so you can set it back to that stable environment. Otherwise you spend way too much time screwin around with everything and it cost $ to always add PH up and down. I will say this tho. less is more. better to see PH go up and know plant is doing its processes verse it going down cuz below 5.2 it doesnt get much. Lava rocks are better in my opinion as well. The hydrot always has residue. I use both now but only because my store is out of the rocks I want. I hope this info helps, once I got this down hydro was simple.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 15, 2010)

Megalith said:


> Im sub'd. I want to to first say nice grow. Now, you do not want your PH jumping "around" you want it stable. The way you get it stable is by observing. You know the target range but if you dont stablize it will always go one way or the other and when its too high or too low they dont get sqaut for nutes. You watch the PPM and the PH daily. Depending on your set-up most of us lose a liitle H20 to evapoation. When the PPM goes up the plants are taking more H20 than nutes. When they go down its getting more nutes than H20. When the PH goes up it means their taking in nutes which is good but it may be too little. When the PH goes down the nutes are too high. The trick is to monitor this and get it stable. The PH will stablize when the nute level is correct for your farm/system/plant. Its also good to know this si9nce your adding water and nutes daily or whatever so you can set it back to that stable environment. Otherwise you spend way too much time screwin around with everything and it cost $ to always add PH up and down. I will say this tho. less is more. better to see PH go up and know plant is doing its processes verse it going down cuz below 5.2 it doesnt get much. Lava rocks are better in my opinion as well. The hydrot always has residue. I use both now but only because my store is out of the rocks I want. I hope this info helps, once I got this down hydro was simple.


 Great info, thanks.


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## Megalith (Nov 15, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I see I will have too do that trick with covering the hole I kept noticing the light was shooting down that hole didnt know if it was supposed to do that. Damn soil was always so easy to germ, or I just suck.
> 
> Dont worry about the long post im not afraid to read unlike most of my generation.


I use the brown seeds mostly. I pinch them 1st b/w thumb and pointer to make sure they dont crumble. You want a strong seed. Then I place them in good water for 24/36 hours. If its a good seed it will sink. If they float I tap them down beause air bubles keep them up. They crack usually in 24 hours. After I see theyre open I drop them in the plugs about1/8-1/4 in. Within 3 days theyre up. I use a 200-250 PPM on all seedlings and clones. I spray the plug and plant 3-4 times a day. they root within 7-10 days


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## Megalith (Nov 16, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Great info, thanks.


anytime dude. no sense in wasting $ on nutes not used and PH like its 80's hair gel. I dont know much about your nutes but I would say a 2 part syytem is minimal in hydro. Look for a bolom formula you like. If you use a high N veg form then you want to flush. The N makes them stretch in the first couple weeks of flower. you aslo want to use the MH-HPS in 3:1 0r 2:1 ratio. The MH definately helps minimize the stretch. They will love you for a High P bloom form.


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## remi11 (Nov 16, 2010)

Man urs started later than mine and looks as big if not bigger. I was planning on flowering Friday too ill see if I could get ya pic tonight looks good. Love the screen bro


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## legallyflying (Nov 16, 2010)

Looking good. I would FIM that fucker for sure and start to get it mega branching. I'm two weeks into my first scrog as well. You look like your getting close to flip time no?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 16, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> Looking good. I would FIM that fucker for sure and start to get it mega branching. I'm two weeks into my first scrog as well. You look like your getting close to flip time no?


Yes I am I have never FIMed before would I do it to all the bud sites or just the top cola. This is my first time using a scrog method, I also didn't know what to do with the big fan leaves will they remain under the screen or do I tuck them through. I already started positioning bud sites through the individual holes and I plan on just weaving them along as they progress during the beginning of flowering when they stretch.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 16, 2010)

remi11 said:


> Man urs started later than mine and looks as big if not bigger. I was planning on flowering Friday too ill see if I could get ya pic tonight looks good. Love the screen bro


 Yea she seems to be really taking off I cant wait for her to flower I am so nervous about that growth.


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## legallyflying (Nov 16, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Yes I am I have never FIMed before would I do it to all the bud sites or just the top cola. This is my first time using a scrog method, I also didn't know what to do with the big fan leaves will they remain under the screen or do I tuck them through. I already started positioning bud sites through the individual holes and I plan on just weaving them along as they progress during the beginning of flowering when they stretch.


also,
Well if the main stems are in the screen already then I wouldn't really worry about it. Guess I would need to see a really recent picture. I FIM'd when they had about 5 nodes. When you FIM you end up with about 5-6 growing "tops". This is good for a scrog as you get main branches heading to different parts of the screen and its a little easier to train. Also, when you have more main branches you have more nodes that can shoot up as branches through your scrog screen. More main "thick" branches that bud stems are shooting off of. 
This is really just a strategy for those like me with fewer plants. I have 7 plants in a 24 sq. ft. screen so I need to really train the shit out of them.

Don't worry about the fan leaves yet, just pull them through the screen. Your screen holes look pretty damn small in the picture. Your really going to have to stay on top of the plants and keep scrogging them as I think that if you let the branches grow for 2-3 days without training your not going to be able to push them back through the screen without breaking them. 

I'm going to update my scrog pics, I'll shoot you a link to my grow journal.


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## OGPanda (Nov 16, 2010)

How big are those squares? Looks like 1 inch by 1 inch from the photos..


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## legallyflying (Nov 16, 2010)

OGPanda said:


> How big are those squares? Looks like 1 inch by 1 inch from the photos..


that's what I thought.... ugggh. mine are tough enough and they are 2 1/4". 

Probably be fine but going to beat uo the plants pretty good if training hard.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 16, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> that's what I thought.... ugggh. mine are tough enough and they are 2 1/4".
> 
> Probably be fine but going to beat uo the plants pretty good if training hard.


 In scottys journal someone said 1in will be fine they are tight but I will weave them through. In the future I will probably make one with a larger screen.


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## Serapis (Nov 16, 2010)

Good looking grow. Scotty inspired me to do 2 waterfarms. I'm running them now with no plants and the PH is hard to keep stable. I have RO water and ppm is at 500 as a test run. I quit adjusting the PH because it always goes back to high 7's. I guess I'll be adjusting daily. I have 2 Bubblelicious seeds germing in two rapid rooters, sitting on a heat pad. The tray has a dome and about 1/8" of a weak solution with B1 Thrive. I was going to try Scotty's method of placing tap root in hydroton, but I keep having visions of my $7 fem seed falling through the cracks and getting burried in clay pebbles.

I hope to get as good as a start as you have had for my first hydro. How is your PH reacting now that you are feeding and maintaining the PPM?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 16, 2010)

Serapis said:


> Good looking grow. Scotty inspired me to do 2 waterfarms. I'm running them now with no plants and the PH is hard to keep stable. I have RO water and ppm is at 500 as a test run. I quit adjusting the PH because it always goes back to high 7's. I guess I'll be adjusting daily. I have 2 Bubblelicious seeds germing in two rapid rooters, sitting on a heat pad. The tray has a dome and about 1/8" of a weak solution with B1 Thrive. I was going to try Scotty's method of placing tap root in hydroton, but I keep having visions of my $7 fem seed falling through the cracks and getting burried in clay pebbles.
> 
> I hope to get as good as a start as you have had for my first hydro. How is your PH reacting now that you are feeding and maintaining the PPM?


 If you have any kind of florakleen or a product similar I would soak it in that it seemed to do the trick for me, it was unstable as hell in the beginning but now I only have to adjust it maybe once a day which isn't bad at all I like knowing the Ph is always in range. I was scared too about putting in the pebbles it was my last female seed it the plugs seem to work great. I havent got a PPM meter yet I just havent had any available funds but I am just feeding light she is drinking close to a half gallon a day. I am working in the lair right now and will be posting pictures in a hour or so.


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## Serapis (Nov 16, 2010)

I have drip clean, so I think before I actually place the plugs into the farms, I'll disassemble and soak in PH'ed water with some drip clean.

Thanks for the tip. I'm subed and watching. Scotty got me excited with 16 O's with one farm. I went and bought a 4x4 Jardin with all the fixings and two farms. I hope to be able to harvest alternating halves of the tent every 4 weeks or so.

Looking forward to the pics.

Scottyballs, you rock! You gave me the confidence to go hydro. I love your KISS way of thinking. Thanks for sharing you guys!!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 16, 2010)

Update
I agree the 1in will be a pain so I decided to go with 4in and I custom made them while I was gone, I also smoked a bowl too. Anyways that stupid growth is still pissing me off it looks so reminecient to the start of a pollen sac, I really hope its a girl. But it is strange in other spots where preflowers appear there is growth with something sticking strange out so maybe this plant just has weird shit going on. Anyways I am going to start to flower Friday so we shall see in a short time.

Note the strange brown color on the stem is that similar to damping off in soil should I tear off the top part of the plug? Or is this common in Hydro I have never really noticed this with my soil grows or maybe I dont remember correctly.
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## Serapis (Nov 16, 2010)

Please forgive me if you aren't looking for this kind of feedback, but it looks like some of the leave serated edges are curling up? Very visible in last two photos.

Great fix on the mesh, just watch out for those gotchya points. Those will draw blood it looks like. 

I spotted the growth you were talking about. I'm hoping that is just from the branching hormones encouraging new shoots. The parts of the plant coming up through the screen need to be pulled back under.

Beautiful looking plant!! +REP


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 17, 2010)

Serapis said:


> Please forgive me if you aren't looking for this kind of feedback, but it looks like some of the leave serated edges are curling up? Very visible in last two photos.
> 
> Great fix on the mesh, just watch out for those gotchya points. Those will draw blood it looks like.
> 
> ...


All observations are welcome.

The leaves have always seemed to curl up I raised my light and my temps are around 75-79 and it will get cooler as winter is rolling in. I dont know why the leaves are always like that I thought it might just be the strain. I might need another fan in there but its pretty windy in their as it is. I also thought it could have been a little bit of K deficiency.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 17, 2010)

I have also grown in that tent with much higher temps and never had the leaves like that. but I wish I had a PPM meter I need to invest in one so I could be sure how strong the brew is.


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## remi11 (Nov 17, 2010)

Man urs is looking really great jim I don't know after looking at urs I'm thinking maybe I stunted mines growth casue I planted her oct 7 and shed I don't know not where I thought she would be what do u think. Oh and mannnn I'm gonna need a bigger screen well with bigger holes I had got like some chicken wire lol http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p253/da691gsr/2010-11-17012754.jpg


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## Serapis (Nov 17, 2010)

Lowes has some good material for making cheap scrog netting. It is 2.5" mesh, usually used to keep animals out of gardens or to mark off construction sites... In my tent, I placed two bungee cords from pole to pole, opposite of each other. Then, using small bungee cords, attached the mesh to the bungees running the sides. It makes a quick and easy screen, is cheap, and it is light weight, meaning it can't hurt your plants. Here is a pic of the fencing mesh I'm talking about...


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## The Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

Serapis said:


> Lowes has some good material for making cheap scrog netting. It is 2.5" mesh, usually used to keep animals out of gardens or to mark off construction sites... In my tent, I placed two bungee cords from pole to pole, opposite of each other. Then, using small bungee cords, attached the mesh to the bungees running the sides. It makes a quick and easy screen, is cheap, and it is light weight, meaning it can't hurt your plants. Here is a pic of the fencing mesh I'm talking about...


yeah those are nice, but a lot of people actually use a scrog to hold the plant up too


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## Serapis (Nov 17, 2010)

The Snowman said:


> yeah those are nice, but a lot of people actually use a scrog to hold the plant up too


???

Do you care to define scrog please, cause when I look it up, it is a method more than a single item. The netting that makes up a scrog can be made of wire, plastic, metal, etc. so I don't understand your point.


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## The Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

Serapis said:


> ???
> 
> Do you care to define scrog please, cause when I look it up, it is a method more than a single item. The netting that makes up a scrog can be made of wire, plastic, metal, etc. so I don't understand your point.


 all i was saying was that some people such as myself prefer a more sturdy screen to hold all those fatty budz up? geez
i didn't say those wouldn't work?
sorry about the inconvenience jimbizz


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## Serapis (Nov 17, 2010)

I get your point now. 

I thought about that too, but the more I thought it out, I realized that the screen doesn't actually support the weight, the plant does. The stem bends from underneath the screen and then grows straight up towards light. How does that screen then support the weight? It's mainly a training device. If you are right and the screen does support the weight, I have a handy roll of velcro tape and can always tie the stems to the screen, but I really don't think it will come to that. 

I was just confused about the snippet about most people use a scrog..... I was like, a scrog is whatever we happen to make it out of... This plastic will easily support a 16 lb bowling ball. If I ever have a need to support more weight than that, I'll go to a metal screen.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 17, 2010)

Yea I was at lowes but the stupid guy kept asking what I was using it for I guess he was genuinely trying to be helpful so I didn't have much time too look and I just grabbed the 1in oh well some more pinching and Ill have all 4in.

And as for that cupping of the leaf I forgot before I took the pics I was attempting to push that leaf through the small 1in square I had it all smashed up in my hand so I guess it did look bad its gone now.


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## Serapis (Nov 17, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Yea I was at lowes but the stupid guy kept asking what I was using it for I guess he was genuinely trying to be helpful so I didn't have much time too look and I just grabbed the 1in oh well some more pinching and Ill have all 4in.
> 
> And as for that cupping of the leaf I forgot before I took the pics I was attempting to push that leaf through the small 1in square I had it all smashed up in my hand so I guess it did look bad its gone now.


I just hate to be out shopping for my grow and have someone come up and ask if they can help me. They always want details of my project, so they get a picture and see what I'm trying to ask for. I'm always afraid I'll slip and say "grow" or "garden".... Damn I can't wait until the day that this shit is not illegal... I know having a garden is not illegal, but in my mind and my security while growing, it sets off alarm bells... lol.... 

I really need to plow a few rows outside and start some tomatoes or something so that the word "garden" doesn't sound so guilty to me. lol


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## Megalith (Nov 17, 2010)

Serapis said:


> ???
> 
> Do you care to define scrog please, cause when I look it up, it is a method more than a single item. The netting that makes up a scrog can be made of wire, plastic, metal, etc. so I don't understand your point.


its is a method. scrog= screen of green. in the method you use a screen to train your plants to grow horizontal maximizing yield by the light hittingall flowers evenly because of the screen


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## Megalith (Nov 17, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Yes I am I have never FIMed before would I do it to all the bud sites or just the top cola. This is my first time using a scrog method, I also didn't know what to do with the big fan leaves will they remain under the screen or do I tuck them through. I already started positioning bud sites through the individual holes and I plan on just weaving them along as they progress during the beginning of flowering when they stretch.


I would top. I fimmed mine but will top nxt time. Fim is ok but topping will encourage better secondary growth. I topped all my clones already. I cut above the 2nd node when there are 5 or 6. No point in worrying about exact placement now, theyre going to move. Just keep pulling the tops of branches back under for at least the 1st 3 weeks of flower. Tuck fans leaves under. they will eventually yellow and fall off. This method of topping will give you 4 branches vs 1 if you dont.


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## Serapis (Nov 17, 2010)

Megalith said:


> I would top. I fimmed mine but will top nxt time. Fim is ok but topping will encourage better secondary growth. I topped all my clones already. I cut above the 2nd node when there are 5 or 6. No point in worrying about exact placement now, theyre going to move. Just keep pulling the tops of branches back under for at least the 1st 3 weeks of flower. Tuck fans leaves under. they will eventually yellow and fall off. This method of topping will give you 4 branches vs 1 if you dont.


That is a good point. Scrog plants actually should be topped early in growth to encourage new branching. The also allows you to direct the 2-4 mains in different directions on the screen.


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## T.M.B (Nov 17, 2010)

hello all, i did do the scottyballs method of germinating and it worked great,I put them in friday afternoon and they are doing great for the first couple days i made a little v with foil so it ran water right on the seed to keep it wet i was afraid of them drying up in front of my eyes.I did not like the looks of chicken wire either i bought fencing at tractor supply company 2inch by 3inch its a 4ft by 6ft scrog table i have 2 400 cmhs.I bought 4 waterfarms but only going with 2 my first time out,1 g-13pe and 1dna sharksbreathe both fem seeds i got free from attitudes promo. I only wish i wouldnt have put them quite so deep in the hydro but seems like it will work out fine.I keep reading scottys journal to make sure i try and follow it to a t,i didnt go with the extra airstone in the bottem either that big airpump i got has those farms bubbling like crazy,I wish i had a camera to share my grow as well but all my cash went into building my set up really happy with the room i built i am just so glad i came upon scottys journal just in time i think his technique is spot on totally stoked.


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## legallyflying (Nov 17, 2010)

Megalith said:


> I would top. I fimmed mine but will top nxt time. Fim is ok but topping will encourage better secondary growth. I topped all my clones already. I cut above the 2nd node when there are 5 or 6. No point in worrying about exact placement now, theyre going to move. Just keep pulling the tops of branches back under for at least the 1st 3 weeks of flower. Tuck fans leaves under. they will eventually yellow and fall off. This method of topping will give you 4 branches vs 1 if you dont.


So you got more growing shoots with topping? That is interesting as my experience was different. Whenever I top I get two main trunks. When I FIM I get like 5-6. Topping does however seem to be a little more predictable however as I always get the same result. The FIM results are fairly strain dependent (and FIM dependent). I may just place my plants in a single row next time, top them, and then orient all the stems out towards the sides of the screen. I need to post pics in my journal, my plants are mobbing out of the screen and flowering like mad. Not even out of the second week of flower and they have already slowed and are flowering.


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## Serapis (Nov 17, 2010)

I get 4 colas after topping, but it takes light to do it. You'll have to cut some leaves off to allow the alternate branches to stretch for the top. If you don't, topping gives only two mains. That has been my experience with topping.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 17, 2010)

Serapis said:


> I get 4 colas after topping, but it takes light to do it. You'll have to cut some leaves off to allow the alternate branches to stretch for the top. If you don't, topping gives only two mains. That has been my experience with topping.


 So do you top the main cola completly off and then FIM the two nodes that are now exposed and the new tops to get 4?

What are the main differences between toping and FIMing I am high and confused but I found this great instructional video on youtube.
[video=youtube;QGe_WvezuAc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGe_WvezuAc[/video]


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## upthearsenal (Nov 17, 2010)

Topping is good for an even canopy but you remove the primary apical meristem which has the potential for the most potency and to form the largest buds, also, if you remove it it takes a plant longer to respond to light cycle changes... Topping is really popular here on RIU but personally, I prefer simple LST and supercropping, and if anything a FIM is helpful.

Just my view on topping...


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 17, 2010)

upthearsenal said:


> Topping is good for an even canopy but you remove the primary apical meristem which has the potential for the most potency and to form the largest buds, also, if you remove it it takes a plant longer to respond to light cycle changes... Topping is really popular here on RIU but personally, I prefer simple LST and supercropping, and if anything a FIM is helpful.
> 
> Just my view on topping...


I am just going to keep it simple this time around and maybe go experimental in the future.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 17, 2010)

Update 
I cut a more holes out the rest i will do as I go along. I am tucking everything back under the screen and will weave it in and out. I am also going to leave all the fan leaves under the screen.

View attachment 1275628View attachment 1275629View attachment 1275630View attachment 1275631View attachment 1275632View attachment 1275633


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 17, 2010)

Any thoughts on this? The browning on the stem.

View attachment 1275639


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## Megalith (Nov 18, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> So do you top the main cola completly off and then FIM the two nodes that are now exposed and the new tops to get 4?
> 
> What are the main differences between toping and FIMing I am high and confused but I found this great instructional video on youtube.
> [video=youtube;QGe_WvezuAc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGe_WvezuAc[/video]


Fimming should only give you two buds on the main stem that you fim. It also encourages secondary growth. When you top you essentially turn 1 branch into two. I have done both and prefer topping for scrogg. My way, asI learned by Uncle Ben is to cut above the 2nd node when theyre are 5 or 6. This gives you four mains. Also better for scrog and also encourages secondary growth


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## OGPanda (Nov 18, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Any thoughts on this? The browning on the stem.
> 
> View attachment 1275639


It seems you are using hydroton clay pellets.... if so, did you wash and rinse them before use? If you didn't its probably just clay sediment from rubbing on each other while it was in the bag.


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## Megalith (Nov 18, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> So you got more growing shoots with topping? That is interesting as my experience was different. Whenever I top I get two main trunks. When I FIM I get like 5-6. Topping does however seem to be a little more predictable however as I always get the same result. The FIM results are fairly strain dependent (and FIM dependent). I may just place my plants in a single row next time, top them, and then orient all the stems out towards the sides of the screen. I need to post pics in my journal, my plants are mobbing out of the screen and flowering like mad. Not even out of the second week of flower and they have already slowed and are flowering.


your grow sounds awesome. Love the sig by the way. I would say it al depends where you cut when topping. My fimmed only splits the top and 1 became two. I only fimmed the main as I did it only to encourage secondary growth. If you just top the main at he top you get two mains. There is actually a whole mathematical system of where to cut(which node) to determine how many branches. I'll look for it when I get time. I'll alo say for the people afraid of losing the potency of main stem "potency-smotency" lol. My secondary buds were just as good as the main cola. Now I have no ay to measure other than the high, and stone couch lock is stoned couch lock, no matter where it comes from on the plant. Here is one of my secondaries and it was bad-ass.


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## Megalith (Nov 18, 2010)

secondary


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## legallyflying (Nov 18, 2010)

nice looking nug for sure! Its weird that you only got two when you FIM'd. Maybe you cut too much off? My top split into 4 but also, the lower branches seemed to receive lots of grow hormone as they started to shoot out as well. It seems very logical to me but I haven't had the number of runs to really concrete the theory but it seems like the health of the plant at the time of the training has allot to do with the results. MY plants look good but the one plant that was looking just a little better than the rest has a MONSTER trunk on it. Its got to be as big as the handle on a comfy screwdriver with several large trunks coming off of it. I think there is a pic in my grow journal actually. Need to take pics tonight. 

this weekend was all about transplanting clones, taking more clones, washing hydroton, cleaning and changing the rez, cracking seeds, running to the store for more CO2, trimming, adjusting fans... Christ this shit is allot of fun but eats up time.


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## Serapis (Nov 18, 2010)

I need help.... 

I hope it is ok to ask in your thread Jim, because most readers are using waterfarms 

I have a seed that germinated in a plug. Within the next day or two, i'd like to get it in the waterfarm. For the past 5 days, I have been running water, a weak solution and some dri9p clear in my waterfarms. No plants, just the set up, hydroton and all. For the first few days, I monitored and adjusted PH daily, but noticed it kept going back to 7.5 or even 8 in the reservoir. I'm using a PH down acid made for aquariums, plants and fish. It is powerful stuff. 1 tbsp will take 2 gal of 7.5 water to near 6. I would set ph to 5.8 and I monitored ppms.

Today, I decided to flush the system and change out the reservoir, in prep for the new seedling. I emptied all the water, added water and Drip Clean and kept running water through until it was crystal clear. The PPM reading coming out was same as fresh water going in. I then ran straight water for an hour and emptied again. This time the water came out crystal clear, not muddy red looking from the clay like before. (yes, I rinsed the hell out of the hydroton first) I added 2 gallons of water. I brought PH down to 5.8. Fifteen minutes later, still 5.8.

At this time, one of my BRAND NEW flourescent T8 fixtures in nursery burns out and has an eletrical smell. Just bought the damn light yesterday. I take it back, swap it out and out of curiosity, decide to take a PH reading. I wish I hadn't. In less than ONE hour, my waterfarm water went from 5.8 to nearly 8 PH!!!! Why the hell would this happen? Is having a plant with actual roots in the hydroton going to help prevent this? I can't keep adjusting the water every hour, it wouldn't be worth it money wise. Hydroton has been rinsed, soaked, rinsed and rinsed again.

Any ideas? I want to get this plug going but not with PH swings like this. Is there a stabilizer I can add? Am I missing something? I've got a Milwaukee meter, it is accurate and was just calibrated recently and re-tested.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 18, 2010)

Megalith said:


> Fimming should only give you two buds on the main stem that you fim. It also encourages secondary growth. When you top you essentially turn 1 branch into two. I have done both and prefer topping for scrogg. My way, asI learned by Uncle Ben is to cut above the 2nd node when theyre are 5 or 6. This gives you four mains. Also better for scrog and also encourages secondary growth


 I have a few of uncle bens journals bookmarked dude is a RIU legend.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 18, 2010)

Serapis said:


> I need help....
> 
> I hope it is ok to ask in your thread Jim, because most readers are using waterfarms
> 
> ...


I had some bad problems with the Ph and Hydroten just seems to be fussy like that in the beginning. Once I had the plant in and had it running the spikes diminished, I am not going to say this will happen in your case but you should be fine. I am brand new to hydro so I am not the most knowledgeable in hydroten but when it happened to me I did research and it seems to be common.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 18, 2010)

Also scottey always says dont worry about the Ph in the beginning and its only important when nutrients are involved which makes complete sense and I believe he is right.


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## remi11 (Nov 18, 2010)

Ya my ph was all off in the begining I assume it was rising and I wouldn't check it for awhile, I only had a few strips but everytime I changed out the reservoir the ph was close to 8 but it seems to have level out and stayed constant after using this zerowater and now that I can observe and change my ph lol but ya like jim said I looked it up on here and some other site and it does seem to be common in he begining


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## Serapis (Nov 18, 2010)

Ok, you guys convinced me not to worry about. TY to Scotty as well for the initial inspiration, as well as Jim for following up with another one. I have decided to throw caution to the wind and start my farm up. RO water in, Drip clean in and 35% hydro peroxide in and 1/4 tsp SuperThrive. Thanks guys for the advice. 

Her name is Babylicious


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## remi11 (Nov 19, 2010)

Hell ya man all you can do is go for it. I think its better to get hand on and in there so u learn better. U can only prepare sooo much and seems to me ur more than ready to start gl with her def will be dropping by.


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## legallyflying (Nov 19, 2010)

check my grow journal. MY hydroton was fucking nuts at first. You need to soak it and keep adjusting the ph. mine took like 3 days of soaking. careful you don't over water that seedling


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## Serapis (Nov 19, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> check my grow journal. MY hydroton was fucking nuts at first. You need to soak it and keep adjusting the ph. mine took like 3 days of soaking. careful you don't over water that seedling


The seedling has plenty of oxygen to reach the root. It's in a rapid rooter plug, sponge and the only moisture getting to it is being transferred from clay pellet to clay pellet. No direct water. I really can't over water it, it is a hydro baby and will soon have roots in the water.


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## remi11 (Nov 19, 2010)

i wouldnt reccomend the rooter plug seemed to me to slow down my growing process some once the roots went from the environment of the plug to that of the hydroton. like scotty did once the taproot is about and inch just put it directly into the hydroton. i dont think it will really mess it up doing it with the plug but i hear its better the other way. but hey i used the plug too and she seems to be doing good now.


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## Megalith (Nov 19, 2010)

remi11 said:


> i wouldnt reccomend the rooter plug seemed to me to slow down my growing process some once the roots went from the environment of the plug to that of the hydroton. like scotty did once the taproot is about and inch just put it directly into the hydroton. i dont think it will really mess it up doing it with the plug but i hear its better the other way. but hey i used the plug too and she seems to be doing good now.


I use the Rapid Rooter line. I tried the mini blocks for grow blocks and the little tiny ones you soak that you can get anywhere. These do the trick for me and honestly did root faster than the other. The last ones I used had micro organism in them and they had roots spilling over the top in like 6 days. I also heat them up from the bottom seems to help.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 19, 2010)

Hey all, my charcoal filter I made sucked it didn't filter very good and reduced my fan way too much causing temps to rise, I went to the store and got a awesome charcoal filter by mountain air. I am busy as fuck today for some reason but I will be posting pics later and talk more about the mountain air filter.

I wish I could rename this thread not only because its no longer White Widow but also it should be called.

ScottyBallz Grow a Shit ton of weed with one system Method, because I am amazed how many of us were inspired to jump right in and use ScottyBalls simple but extremely productive way of growing. I noticed when I was at the hydroshop looking at all the fancy brand names, expensive equipment, and thinking if I could only show them Scottys thread they wouldn't have to waist all their money.


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## Megalith (Nov 19, 2010)

sorry to hear that. any chance you have a link to this guy scotty's method? I really havent a clue when U reference him. I tried to find something but just get post mentioning him. I'd like to read it even though I dont use this method.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 19, 2010)

Megalith said:


> sorry to hear that. any chance you have a link to this guy scotty's method? I really havent a clue when U reference him. I tried to find something but just get post mentioning him. I'd like to read it even though I dont use this method.


 https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/344359-pineapple-express-g13-labs-seed.html


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## remi11 (Nov 19, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Hey all, my charcoal filter I made sucked it didn't filter very good and reduced my fan way too much causing temps to rise, I went to the store and got a awesome charcoal filter by mountain air. I am busy as fuck today for some reason but I will be posting pics later and talk more about the mountain air filter.
> 
> I wish I could rename this thread not only because its no longer White Widow but also it should be called.
> 
> ScottyBallz Grow a Shit ton of weed with one system Method, because I am amazed how many of us were inspired to jump right in and use ScottyBalls simple but extremely productive way of growing. I noticed when I was at the hydroshop looking at all the fancy brand names, expensive equipment, and thinking if I could only show them Scottys thread they wouldn't have to waist all their money.


 man sorry to hear that im not to the point that smell is really causeing me to need a filter but in the near future i plan to make one. and your so right most of us WERE inspired by scotty and his method im debating rather or not to start a journal kinda backdating with pictures and minor datails up to where i am now at day 42. but yes much much credit goes out to SCOTTY


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## Megalith (Nov 19, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/344359-pineapple-express-g13-labs-seed.html


Great read. I'm on page 22 and it's funny how alot of the same techniques can be used in different systems. I also read some of the whiterasta stuff too. very interesting. I'll have to read his after. So far I'm intrigued to find out how much of a difference that ring makes in the system because my ebb n flo does the same thing except take water from the top of the res. I wont be happy if in the end the switch from cmh to hps caused thee nute problem or actually slows growth. What's your take on that part?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 20, 2010)

i am not sure i just switched from mh to hps last night so hopefully there are no adverse effects.


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## Megalith (Nov 20, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> i am not sure i just switched from mh to hps last night so hopefully there are no adverse effects.


Let me know if you see any nute burn on the tips or anything else unusual plz.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 20, 2010)

I am about to go back and take some pics Ill post some updates shortly.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 20, 2010)

Update.
So I flipped the lights two days ago, I added my HPS bulb and I am weaving the plants I took some close up of the weaving hopefully I am doing it right.

View attachment 1279877View attachment 1279878View attachment 1279879View attachment 1279880View attachment 1279881


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## OGPanda (Nov 20, 2010)

How long did you end veggin' for? It looks like you could of definetly filled out some more of that screen to me.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 20, 2010)

OGPanda said:


> How long did you end veggin' for? It looks like you could of definetly filled out some more of that screen to me.


 Nah the plant will double in size over the next few weeks I usually only veg plants till they are 12in tall this one was about 14in when I started flower I am sure I will have the screen full.


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## Megalith (Nov 20, 2010)

Room looks tight. She's looking good. I forget what strain that is too.lol I know it's not Widow. She'll definately stretch her leggs and fill that nicely. One little issue for me, the screen. There's a big ass wave in it. Can you tighten that up some? I know it doesn't have to be perfect but thats a wave dude. lol


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 20, 2010)

Megalith said:


> Room looks tight. She's looking good. I forget what strain that is too.lol I know it's not Widow. She'll definately stretch her leggs and fill that nicely. One little issue for me, the screen. There's a big ass wave in it. Can you tighten that up some? I know it doesn't have to be perfect but thats a wave dude. lol


 It is so hard to reach all the way back there I cant do much about it, I figure the plants will just ride the wave. Its Cole Train from Reserve Privada, and I hope its a girl I should know in two more days.


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## Megalith (Nov 20, 2010)

Right on. Surf's up Howley. chugga-chugga choo-choo!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 20, 2010)

Megalith said:


> Right on. Surf's up Howley. chugga-chugga choo-choo!


 I cant wait for the train to roll in.


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## Serapis (Nov 20, 2010)

Rather than "weave" the stem through and out and through and out, just pull any growth that has come up through the screen by 2" or more, back under the screen and away from the main stem. The side branches will end up shooting up and eventually filling the screen. I would keep pulling the main stems under and away and let the side branching have the top light. When they start to get bigger, gently pull them under and relocate under the screen. When your plants start the flowering stretch, you will be busy relocating the main stems back under the screen. Towards the end of stretching, allow the side branching to come through the screen, followed by the main tops. This will give you an even canopy with LOTS of cola tops. You are not really weaving the screen, you are using the screen to force the plant to grow horizontally. This stimulates branching and new growth tips, which become colas.

check on Scotty's PPM at this point in his journal. I believe he steps up the PPM at this stage to provide extra nitrogen for the new branch growth. 

I'm jealous of your grow. I'm only at day 3 of seedling life.


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## Rickybobby0007 (Nov 20, 2010)

Ah, it sucks stumbling into a new journal and coming to the last page... Grow Jim Grow


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 20, 2010)

Serapis said:


> Rather than "weave" the stem through and out and through and out, just pull any growth that has come up through the screen by 2" or more, back under the screen and away from the main stem. The side branches will end up shooting up and eventually filling the screen. I would keep pulling the main stems under and away and let the side branching have the top light. When they start to get bigger, gently pull them under and relocate under the screen. When your plants start the flowering stretch, you will be busy relocating the main stems back under the screen. Towards the end of stretching, allow the side branching to come through the screen, followed by the main tops. This will give you an even canopy with LOTS of cola tops. You are not really weaving the screen, you are using the screen to force the plant to grow horizontally. This stimulates branching and new growth tips, which become colas.
> 
> check on Scotty's PPM at this point in his journal. I believe he steps up the PPM at this stage to provide extra nitrogen for the new branch growth.
> 
> I'm jealous of your grow. I'm only at day 3 of seedling life.


Yea it seems hard to weave I am just going to run them under the screen.


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## Megalith (Nov 20, 2010)

I wouldnt thibk it makes a difference. Pulling them under is probably easier. Thats what I did.


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## legallyflying (Nov 21, 2010)

In only weaved when I didn't train for a couple days and they got farther above the screen then I wanted. You need twice the length of stem to weave. If your holes are an inch or smaller I wouldn't advise trying to weave, your going to break shit.


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## Serapis (Nov 21, 2010)

Weaving also makes it a pain to harvest, unless you plan on cutting from the top. It may also take a spot away from a tip. There may be a pro or two for weaving, but I can't think of one for the moment...

just thought of one, would add support to plant, especially if you have a rigid screen.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 21, 2010)

Update day 3 of flower.

I have been just running them along and exposing the bottom nodes to light they are shooting up everywhere I can already tell there will be alot of bud sites.

View attachment 1282222View attachment 1282223View attachment 1282224View attachment 1282225View attachment 1282226


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## Serapis (Nov 21, 2010)

Good job!! I see all kinds of branching taking place. Do you have a fan above and below the canopy? I have 4 plants, two weeks into flower, and I just pinched them and added a screen. It's amazing how the nodes pop up and start sprouting new grouth tops. Before I pinched, each plant had maybe 4-6 growth tops. After pinching, more than double. I decided to add the screen to support the pinched mains.

Jim, is the plant taking in more nutrients now that it has more tips? I'm just curious what a good PPM is at this stage. Are you using the Flora Nova Bloom? Sorry for all the questions. I'm extremely interested in your grow and outcome.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 21, 2010)

Serapis said:


> Good job!! I see all kinds of branching taking place. Do you have a fan above and below the canopy? I have 4 plants, two weeks into flower, and I just pinched them and added a screen. It's amazing how the nodes pop up and start sprouting new grouth tops. Before I pinched, each plant had maybe 4-6 growth tops. After pinching, more than double. I decided to add the screen to support the pinched mains.
> 
> Jim, is the plant taking in more nutrients now that it has more tips? I'm just curious what a good PPM is at this stage. Are you using the Flora Nova Bloom? Sorry for all the questions. I'm extremely interested in your grow and outcome.


I am just following the directions on the bottle I dont have a PPM meter, it seems to be working out I have some damaged leaves but only like 5% maybe less. I am just going to keep following the directions right now 2tsp per gallon.

I just have fans at the bottom I have that 4in can fan pumping fresh air in and another fan in their its pretty fuckin windy. I have two tiny clip fans but they dont seem to provide much wind, so I may look at some other ones I need one I can hang from the poles or suspend from the ceiling.


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## Megalith (Nov 21, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I am just following the directions on the bottle I dont have a PPM meter, it seems to be working out I have some damaged leaves but only like 5% maybe less. I am just going to keep following the directions right now 2tsp per gallon.
> 
> Do you have PH meter?
> 
> I just have fans at the bottom I have that 4in can fan pumping fresh air in and another fan in their its pretty fuckin windy. I have two tiny clip fans but they dont seem to provide much wind, so I may look at some other ones I need one I can hang from the poles or suspend from the ceiling.


as long as the air above the plants is being moved its fine.


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## remi11 (Nov 22, 2010)

man things are looking good jim. i just started flowering today well yesterday at 10pm. Was able to catch up on your journal and glad too cause i too was weaving, which seemed like it wasnt needed so that helped. i have a digi now but no cord or memory card (all internal). so until i get either a cord or card im stuck but its nice too see that even after your setback with the ww ur doing good excited to see how it goes


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## legallyflying (Nov 22, 2010)

I'm in my second week of flower and my PPM's are at 1540. (30 ppm tap water). I'm using organic BC nutes though and they are less likely to burn. I would say 1300 would probably keep you nicely covered. My plants are gulping water however. Gallon or two a day. 

Now which one of you is going to come over and water my plants when I'm gone for turkeyday?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 22, 2010)

remi11 said:


> man things are looking good jim. i just started flowering today well yesterday at 10pm. Was able to catch up on your journal and glad too cause i too was weaving, which seemed like it wasnt needed so that helped. i have a digi now but no cord or memory card (all internal). so until i get either a cord or card im stuck but its nice too see that even after your setback with the ww ur doing good excited to see how it goes


 I cant wait to see, I will maybe weave the top nodes just once twords the end of their stretching I feel it will add a large amount support but yea its so much easier running them underneath the screen.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 22, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> I'm in my second week of flower and my PPM's are at 1540. (30 ppm tap water). I'm using organic BC nutes though and they are less likely to burn. I would say 1300 would probably keep you nicely covered. My plants are gulping water however. Gallon or two a day.
> 
> Now which one of you is going to come over and water my plants when I'm gone for turkeyday?


 I feel you on the gallon each day its amazing how fast they drink it up. Two years ago I would have been able to help you I lived in the rocky mountain High but I had too move back. I live in a whale now as you can see. I am runing at 900ppm according too the back I will pump it up next watering probably in like 3 days the way she drinks.


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## legallyflying (Nov 22, 2010)

Sounds good. As someone else had commented earlier,make sure you have decent levels of nitrogen right now as they really need it in the stretch. Besides, that's what scottyballs did. scottyballs did it, hey did you see scottyball's grow? LOL 

Next go around I'm going to increase the amount of grow ferts the week before and the first week of the stretch. Not a whole lot as they didn't show any signs of deficiency but some of my top growth looks a little pale. The trainwrecks jsut don't seem to like to be close to the lights but at this point, I don't really care a whole lot as they are still budding up really nice. 

Important question..how much more room above the screen do you have to let them grow? I stopped training at day 9 of flower and at day 16, all the stems are maybe 6 inches above the screen. If I had to do it over, I would have let them go a little earlier to get at least a foot above the screen during flower formation. I have allot of flowers forming on the curved portions of the branches right at screen level. Not sure if the flowers will keep forming up the stem to make one large cola or if the flowers keep growing on the end of the stem...i.e. they get bigger only as they grow taller. My point, make sure you stop training in time to get them above the screen.

In terms of fans, I would mount the clip on fans to blow up through the bottom of the plants after they have stopped the stretch and you trim away the stuff under the screen. I have two large fans blowing my canopy pretty well but the main reason is that I'm using Co2 and I want to ensure good gas exchange at the leaf surface. (a small boundary layer of air develops around the surface of the leaf where Co2 levels will be lower than ambient if you don't exchange the air with "fresh" co2 laden air).


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## Megalith (Nov 22, 2010)

hey dude,
Just wondering if you have a PH meter. Observation is the only way to keep up with your plants. You could get away with not having a PPM. But not a PH meter, otherwise you really dont know what their doing. Genreally, when PH goes down the nutes are to high. When it goes up theyre too low. You need to know if your grow is taking in more water than nutes or vice versa. When PH stablizes(stays the same) its dead on(the PPM). This and observing foliage is the only way to know in hydro. Heres the thing about over nuteing your plants. Not only do the leaves burn, so do the roots. Thats the worst thing because they stop taking in both H20/nutes or take in very little which kills your yield. Some of my grows dont get past 400 ppm and their just as big if not better than grows I've seen where the PPM is 1000 plus. Adjusting PPM is always the correction to be made. The PH gives you the details. I never adress PH I use it to tell me what to do with the PPM. If the PPM is wrong, the PH will go out and now their not taking in any nutes because it out of the range. A friend of mine has a bubbler. His PPM he would push hard. Always having to adjust PH because it swings when PPM is wrong. Anyway, he followed the system I use and had double the amount of roots which of course increased the yield.


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## Serapis (Nov 22, 2010)

Nitrogen is very important during the stretch. I would def be at 1300 ppm with my nutes right now. I'm working on my last soil grow, got 4 3 gal pots under the screen and I pinched my main stems and laid down the tops. The reaction? The hormones went nuts, began repairing the pinched areas and every node on the main stems I pinched began branching out to form new tops. I'm doing this in week 2 of 12/12. I would have loved to have started sooner, however I had a batch finishing up flowering in the tent up until last Saturday. I'm hoping that the pinching will prolong the stretch with the rush of branching hormones being released by the plant. It's worth a shot.


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## remi11 (Nov 22, 2010)

Megalith said:


> hey dude,
> Just wondering if you have a PH meter. Observation is the only way to keep up with your plants. You could get away with not having a PPM. But not a PH meter, otherwise you really dont know what their doing. Genreally, when PH goes down the nutes are to high. When it goes up theyre too low. You need to know if your grow is taking in more water than nutes or vice versa. When PH stablizes(stays the same) its dead on(the PPM). This and observing foliage is the only way to know in hydro. Heres the thing about over nuteing your plants. Not only do the leaves burn, so do the roots. Thats the worst thing because they stop taking in both H20/nutes or take in very little which kills your yield. Some of my grows dont get past 400 ppm and their just as big if not better than grows I've seen where the PPM is 1000 plus. Adjusting PPM is always the correction to be made. The PH gives you the details. I never adress PH I use it to tell me what to do with the PPM. If the PPM is wrong, the PH will go out and now their not taking in any nutes because it out of the range. A friend of mine has a bubbler. His PPM he would push hard. Always having to adjust PH because it swings when PPM is wrong. Anyway, he followed the system I use and had double the amount of roots which of course increased the yield.


My thoughts exactly I've had some people do the same and were ALWAYS adjusting ph which didn't seem right like my I'm 2 days into flowering and only around 400ppm but my ph is stable and they seem to be drinking water but the ppms stay about the same range so what ur saying to me makes perfect sense I always see people going crazy on nutes and don't understand I always thought less is better but iiii don't know


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## Megalith (Nov 22, 2010)

I think it is better. Less is more. I read a paper done at the University of Colunbia I believe. Basically in the study they gave the same plants different nute levels as they grew. The results showed that even though they could handle the nutes didnt mean they should. The plant that had the lowest PPM grew faster and stronger. If I can find the link I'll post it, but I doubt it. It was about a year ago I read it.

I personally dont follow guides or labels. I introduce in small amounts and let the plants decide. I had over 24 inch cola's and my PPM was 400 in flower. I should add I flush after veg. It doesnt matter to me what number m PPM is. I'm just looking for stable PH, then I know I'm good to go.


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## Serapis (Nov 22, 2010)

Megalith said:


> I think it is better. Less is more. I read a paper done at the University of Colunbia I believe. Basically in the study they gave the same plants different nute levels as they grew. The results showed that even though they could handle the nutes didnt mean they should. The plant that had the lowest PPM grew faster and stronger. If I can find the link I'll post it, but I doubt it. It was about a year ago I read it.
> 
> I personally dont follow guides or labels. I introduce in small amounts and let the plants decide. I had over 24 inch cola's and my PPM was 400 in flower. I should add I flush after veg. It doesnt matter to me what number m PPM is. I'm just looking for stable PH, then I know I'm good to go.


I may adapt your methods..... I like the simplicity.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 22, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> Sounds good. As someone else had commented earlier,make sure you have decent levels of nitrogen right now as they really need it in the stretch. Besides, that's what scottyballs did. scottyballs did it, hey did you see scottyball's grow? LOL
> 
> Next go around I'm going to increase the amount of grow ferts the week before and the first week of the stretch. Not a whole lot as they didn't show any signs of deficiency but some of my top growth looks a little pale. The trainwrecks jsut don't seem to like to be close to the lights but at this point, I don't really care a whole lot as they are still budding up really nice.
> 
> ...


I have 2ft too work with so I will let them stretch out to like 12in twords the end, I am going o play it by ear but I imagine I will be fine. I need to find a fan that will blow the top layer once they are in full flower. The bottom is windy as hell and I feel once the bottom fills out it will reduce the amount that breaks through to the top. The clip fans might be worthless I also have two 4in muffin fans that migh be more productive.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 22, 2010)

Megalith said:


> hey dude,
> Just wondering if you have a PH meter. Observation is the only way to keep up with your plants. You could get away with not having a PPM. But not a PH meter, otherwise you really dont know what their doing. Genreally, when PH goes down the nutes are to high. When it goes up theyre too low. You need to know if your grow is taking in more water than nutes or vice versa. When PH stablizes(stays the same) its dead on(the PPM). This and observing foliage is the only way to know in hydro. Heres the thing about over nuteing your plants. Not only do the leaves burn, so do the roots. Thats the worst thing because they stop taking in both H20/nutes or take in very little which kills your yield. Some of my grows dont get past 400 ppm and their just as big if not better than grows I've seen where the PPM is 1000 plus. Adjusting PPM is always the correction to be made. The PH gives you the details. I never adress PH I use it to tell me what to do with the PPM. If the PPM is wrong, the PH will go out and now their not taking in any nutes because it out of the range. A friend of mine has a bubbler. His PPM he would push hard. Always having to adjust PH because it swings when PPM is wrong. Anyway, he followed the system I use and had double the amount of roots which of course increased the yield.


 Ohhh yea I have a digital Ph meter I test it like 4 times a day, and most of the time my Ph was staying stable but now its kinda rising I guess I need to up the nutes a little next time? I will definitely invest in a PPM meter for the next time but I am just keeping a balanced Ph.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 22, 2010)

Megalith said:


> I think it is better. Less is more. I read a paper done at the University of Colunbia I believe. Basically in the study they gave the same plants different nute levels as they grew. The results showed that even though they could handle the nutes didnt mean they should. The plant that had the lowest PPM grew faster and stronger. If I can find the link I'll post it, but I doubt it. It was about a year ago I read it.
> 
> I personally dont follow guides or labels. I introduce in small amounts and let the plants decide. I had over 24 inch cola's and my PPM was 400 in flower. I should add I flush after veg. It doesnt matter to me what number m PPM is. I'm just looking for stable PH, then I know I'm good to go.


 So basically as long as your Ph stays stable your plant is growing at its maximum ability relative to nutrients not c02 or anything. I will definitely focus on that it makes sense a plant can absorb more nutes even though it doesn't necessarily need or enjoy having the extra nutrients. Try and find that article I would love to read it.


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## legallyflying (Nov 22, 2010)

I absolutely agree that less can be more as it was pointed out, you can't MAKE a plant uptake more nutrients. On the relationship between PH and PPM though, I'm not sure if I am sold on that one. I'm at 1500 PPM right now and my PH raises about 0.2 a day. So by the raising PH rational, I should raise the PPM even higher. This may be a function of the fact that it is harder to get an accurate PPM reading on organic nutes as they are not all electrically charged like their synthetic counterparts. There is also the added variable of microbial activity in the reservoir and its effect on PH.I was told once that a slowly raising PH was a good sign, it meant that the plants were taking up nutrients. The other variable I am dealing with is the curse of the hydroton. For whatever reason, when my hydroton dries out, it becomes more alkaline. One theory I have is that the flow cycles re-wetting the hydroton are slightly raising my ph. 

I'm not trying to dismiss the notion of adjusting the PPM to stabilize PH, just trying to figure out what is going on. Why would the concentration of nutrients effect the PH? If you put more nutes in your PH would start lower.. but you would have to adjust. As the nutrients become depleted from the solution, then if theory holds true, your PH should rise. no? If this is the case, then perhaps OVER feeding your plants will stabilize the PH because the higher the concentration of nutrients, the smaller the proportion being used by the plants would equal less PH swing. 

Any thoughts on how that process works?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 22, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> I absolutely agree that less can be more as it was pointed out, you can't MAKE a plant uptake more nutrients. On the relationship between PH and PPM though, I'm not sure if I am sold on that one. I'm at 1500 PPM right now and my PH raises about 0.2 a day. So by the raising PH rational, I should raise the PPM even higher. This may be a function of the fact that it is harder to get an accurate PPM reading on organic nutes as they are not all electrically charged like their synthetic counterparts. There is also the added variable of microbial activity in the reservoir and its effect on PH.I was told once that a slowly raising PH was a good sign, it meant that the plants were taking up nutrients. The other variable I am dealing with is the curse of the hydroton. For whatever reason, when my hydroton dries out, it becomes more alkaline. One theory I have is that the flow cycles re-wetting the hydroton are slightly raising my ph.
> 
> I'm not trying to dismiss the notion of adjusting the PPM to stabilize PH, just trying to figure out what is going on. Why would the concentration of nutrients effect the PH? If you put more nutes in your PH would start lower.. but you would have to adjust. As the nutrients become depleted from the solution, then if theory holds true, your PH should rise. no? If this is the case, then perhaps OVER feeding your plants will stabilize the PH because the higher the concentration of nutrients, the smaller the proportion being used by the plants would equal less PH swing.
> 
> Any thoughts on how that process works?


 Thats why I liked growing in soil with Organic nutes, it can get way to scientific with hydro and by scientific I mean expensive tools to measure everything to a T.


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## Serapis (Nov 22, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> I absolutely agree that less can be more as it was pointed out, you can't MAKE a plant uptake more nutrients. On the relationship between PH and PPM though, I'm not sure if I am sold on that one. I'm at 1500 PPM right now and my PH raises about 0.2 a day. So by the raising PH rational, I should raise the PPM even higher. This may be a function of the fact that it is harder to get an accurate PPM reading on organic nutes as they are not all electrically charged like their synthetic counterparts. There is also the added variable of microbial activity in the reservoir and its effect on PH.I was told once that a slowly raising PH was a good sign, it meant that the plants were taking up nutrients. The other variable I am dealing with is the curse of the hydroton. For whatever reason, when my hydroton dries out, it becomes more alkaline. One theory I have is that the flow cycles re-wetting the hydroton are slightly raising my ph.
> 
> I'm not trying to dismiss the notion of adjusting the PPM to stabilize PH, just trying to figure out what is going on. Why would the concentration of nutrients effect the PH? If you put more nutes in your PH would start lower.. but you would have to adjust. As the nutrients become depleted from the solution, then if theory holds true, your PH should rise. no? If this is the case, then perhaps OVER feeding your plants will stabilize the PH because the higher the concentration of nutrients, the smaller the proportion being used by the plants would equal less PH swing.
> 
> Any thoughts on how that process works?


If your PH is rising, your plant could use more nutrients. If the PH drops, you have too much in and should add water. It would be sweet if someone designed software for this... lol... As it is, i have to use my Outlook calendar to record ppm, ph and when I make adjustments. I would love to have a database set up that allowed you to upload pics, record stats, etc.


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## Serapis (Nov 22, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Thats why I liked growing in soil with Organic nutes, it can get way to scientific with hydro and by scientific I mean expensive tools to measure everything to a T.


I wouldn't sweat it, your halfway there, a ppm meter is about $40. Mine was cheaper than my PH meter. Also, think of the results! When would you get 16 oz a single plant? Growing outdoors.... thats where... lol I look at it as an investment. That meter could net you a few extra oz PER GROW.  

I need another fan too... all mine are floor fans. Are the 8" clip on fans worthless? I almost bough a few for cliping onto the tent poles.


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## growalater (Nov 22, 2010)

I am growing 2 plants in waterfarm as well. Stop in and say hi. https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/380829-pineapple-express-kandy-kush-hydro.html


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 22, 2010)

Serapis said:


> I wouldn't sweat it, your halfway there, a ppm meter is about $40. Mine was cheaper than my PH meter. Also, think of the results! When would you get 16 oz a single plant? Growing outdoors.... thats where... lol I look at it as an investment. That meter could net you a few extra oz PER GROW.
> 
> I need another fan too... all mine are floor fans. Are the 8" clip on fans worthless? I almost bough a few for cliping onto the tent poles.


 I have 4in ones and they suck I guess they are ok in certain situations I just foresee a shit ton of buds so I want something to really get the air above the canopy moving.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 22, 2010)

Update Day 4 of flower

I noticed the new growth areas are a little light green hopefully they clear up I just feed them yesterday. I am pretty sure I spotted some pistels so I am waiting for more defined calaxes.

View attachment 1283901View attachment 1283906View attachment 1283907View attachment 1283908


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## Megalith (Nov 23, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> I absolutely agree that less can be more as it was pointed out, you can't MAKE a plant uptake more nutrients. On the relationship between PH and PPM though, I'm not sure if I am sold on that one. I'm at 1500 PPM right now and my PH raises about 0.2 a day. So by the raising PH rational, I should raise the PPM even higher. This may be a function of the fact that it is harder to get an accurate PPM reading on organic nutes as they are not all electrically charged like their synthetic counterparts. There is also the added variable of microbial activity in the reservoir and its effect on PH.I was told once that a slowly raising PH was a good sign, it meant that the plants were taking up nutrients. The other variable I am dealing with is the curse of the hydroton. For whatever reason, when my hydroton dries out, it becomes more alkaline. One theory I have is that the flow cycles re-wetting the hydroton are slightly raising my ph.
> 
> I'm not trying to dismiss the notion of adjusting the PPM to stabilize PH, just trying to figure out what is going on. Why would the concentration of nutrients effect the PH? If you put more nutes in your PH would start lower.. but you would have to adjust. As the nutrients become depleted from the solution, then if theory holds true, your PH should rise. no? If this is the case, then perhaps OVER feeding your plants will stabilize the PH because the higher the concentration of nutrients, the smaller the proportion being used by the plants would equal less PH swing.
> 
> Any thoughts on how that process works?


All very good questions. Unfortunately, I cant answer them all. I don't know enough about plant biology to give you an explantaion on exact processes but I'[m sure someone can.

As far as the PH rising slowly thats great. That falls into less is more. The natural process of photosythesis in hydro make the PH rise slightly.Exactly why, I cant tell you. It may be due to what the plants put out as waste. Again, I'm not sure. However, I am sure thats what they do, at least in all of my grows.

It also should be noted that the more plants you have the more PPMt can be raised. I dont think this part needs an explanation. I believe stable or slightly rasing is perfect. Slightly raising PH should mean there getting more nutes than H20. Which is fine, you just dont want it(PH) dropping. So, your correct, slightly raising is a great sighn. You will see that in the system of hydro the plants eventually stabalize themselves if the nutes arent to high. 
I'm not by any means saying your grows need to have a low PPM. But what I am saying is they(my grows) do fine with it lower than I see in most. I am also trying to make sure it is understood that you "must" listen to your p[lants. This is the method I've found that does it best.

Over feeding( if you mean nutes) the Ph will drop if it's too high. There may be factors that change your system due to problems or generally things going wrong but the previous staements hold true. The other thing that can possibly causes wild swings is evapoation. If this isnt an issue then again the staements hold true.

Certain growth stages of the plant will show stability. Naturally theyre always growing and therefore should always need a little more nutes. Addressing the PPM is always the first correction. Of course you buffer your PH as well after, we need to be in range to gets nutes to the plant. However, when the PH swings widely, the PPM needs to be addressed otherwise it will just keep happening until it is corrected. I hope this helps. Just be sure that burning tips of leaves fro raising nute levels is not good and does damage under as well as above. Roots are just as important. So again, sometimes less is more.

I want to add the hydrotten is supposed to be neutral. It shouldnt be causing changes. Provided you treatted it coorectly with a presoak. I dont have all the answers. I'm learning more everyday just like all of you. If anyone has information that can prove this wrong I'd love to see it. I can adapt and love to learn. Everything I say is from what I've seen in my grows. Since we are all using simular techniques I think it has value. You can make your own judements.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 23, 2010)

Awesome info megalith that was a good read I learned alot of new things, I just notice she drank a gallon of water and I hadn't replaced any so I just filled it up with some fresh water I hope I didn't do any damage I noticed it right away. I have a few damaged leaves I will post pictures later I dont think its nute burn they have been messed up for a bit and all the new growth looks great. I have too be carefull with the evaporation I imagine it can really increase the PPM drastically.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 23, 2010)

Hey what are some good sites to upload pics besides flicker I am almost out of space for this month?


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## OGPanda (Nov 23, 2010)

Yeah... What Megalith said!


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## legallyflying (Nov 23, 2010)

Thanks mega. Yeah, there is some complicated shit going on there for sure. I know hydroton "should" be neutral but my experience as well as several others has proven otherwise. When the hydroton sits for awhile it undergoes a chemical reaction with oxygen and becomes more basic. I had to soak the hell out of mine and probably added A HALF A CUP of ph down!!! to a 5- gallon pail over the course of 4 days to keep the ph in range. Read a great post by a chemist on another site as to why this is so but can spit out the explanation right now. 

Anyways, I was going to put your theory to the test and added base nutes and some more liquid karma to my rez to see if this would slow down the PH increases. Then I took a ppm measurement and it read 1890. So I told myself "WTF are you doing, this isn't a lab, your going to fuck shit up" Panicked, scooped out 5-gallons and added tap to get things to 1600. 

I think the over-riding rule (and I might scribe this on my grow room door) If it ain't broke don't fix it.


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## T.M.B (Nov 23, 2010)

hey all you know i love what megalith said as well sounds logical but my little girls are only 11 days old and i tried that logic and had to tell myself wtf are you doing earlier i bumped my ppm up to 480 it started out at 5.5 ph and still rose to 6.1 i just ran downstairs and took ppm down to 350. This ph thing is makeing me stress out i dont want to hurt the little girls scotty made it seem so simple i may just be paranoid being my first hydro grow i dont know i wish that ph would just stable out i would rest easier for sure any ideas shoot them at me please and by the way i washed the hydroton well and preran them for a week before i put the seeds in them thnks for letting me use your thread for help jim.


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## legallyflying (Nov 23, 2010)

5.5 is not a big deal. Not terrific, but not terrible either. I would ph down to 5.6 at the lowest to start with. 480 ppm sounds fine for plants that old..but I don't know what nutrients your using. Another factor as well is how big is your rez compared to the space your flooding? A bigger rez will be more stable. The amount of nutrients you add will also stabilize the PH simply because the naturally act as a buffer. Meaning your PH will fluctuate less during flower as your ppm will be in the 1500 -1800 range.


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## Megalith (Nov 23, 2010)

T.M.B we all stressed the first grow. lol I'm pretty sure I panicked over everything. Just chill.

Legal post that link please so we can read it. Exactly on the if it aint broke theory.

For everyone else, If you have a system that produces what you want then dont change shit. The most important thing is to listen to your girls. Plain and simple.

I cant really give you guys my program and nute levels exactly since it changes. In general, I give clones a spray to the foliage and plugs @ 200-250 PPM. Then when they veg for the 3 weeks or so I have PPM 300-400. It usually stablizes in 2nd week and I just leave it until it swings. Now I have to add water and nutes during this perod but I always have records of where it was and just put it back. I flush for 5-6 days, usually starting couple days before flower. I do it because hi Nitrogen is a factor in strectch and my veg form is very hi Dynagrow Pro Foliage 9-3-6. Then in flower, I mix half and half my veg form and my bloom. Just so I know there getting ample N but not fool of it. At this stage I start gain at 250-300 PPM. I also mix the two to slowly introduce the bloom form which is high in P. Then I just slowly raise PPM with bloom form over the next 5 or 6 weeks(short flowering plant). Its usually stable around 3 of those weeks(not 3 weeks steady). I think just the change between nutes(where I do I fresh res clean of course) the whole system needs to stablize itself with good bacteria and other shit like a fishtank.
Before I know it the pistols are all turnig. At that point I start to flush again. So if my PPm is say 450 I just add water. I usually on keep around 7 gallons in my res so they drink it up fast. I just keep adding water within a week its 200 PPM or lower(my tap water is 90 after sitting). Now if you use alot of gallons the last part probably isnt ideal. I hope this is a clearer picture. 

Not saying to do this exactly, I'm just showing what a mega typical grow is like in my ebb n flow

I should add that I switched from the hydrotten to lava rocks for a mutitude of reason but mainly because they just all around suck!


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## T.M.B (Nov 23, 2010)

oh i am sorry i was so blown away by scottyballs journal p.e seed to harvest thats what i am trying to do. I am useing 2 waterfarms atm i purchased 4 but figured better take baby steps. I used a couple of my free promo fem seeds to start g-13 fem p.e and a dna fem sharksbreath,and I cant complain they are growing well this rising ph is just troubling me and i was wondering if jim had same probs at first and only 1 nute flora nova bloom start to finish i hope lol.


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## Megalith (Nov 23, 2010)

T.M.B said:


> oh i am sorry i was so blown away by scottyballs journal p.e seed to harvest thats what i am trying to do. I am useing 2 waterfarms atm i purchased 4 but figured better take baby steps. I used a couple of my free promo fem seeds to start g-13 fem p.e and a dna fem sharksbreath,and I cant complain they are growing well this rising ph is just troubling me and i was wondering if jim had same probs at first and only 1 nute flora nova bloom start to finish i hope lol.


Ah, are you giving them the Flora also? If so then theres your guide!

I just wanted to add you guys know my current grow is 650 PPM. This one has 4 plants and there not even 3 footers in this scrog. Like I said it's always different.


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## legallyflying (Nov 23, 2010)

here you go megalith:http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hydro/msg100749279742.html

I had a similar problem and there are a shit ton of links about hydroton jacking ph if not properly treated. 

Here is the meat of the thread (as a flame war erupted): 

Hi Lucas, I think you are underestimating the capacity of cation exchange to change pH. Clays - especially those that have been dry for long periods of time - tend to be very basic and they will buffer a solution (especially if its poorly buffered) from 6.8 to even 9 in overnight. Also clays do increase their basic activity if they are stored for prolonged periods of time due the oxidative activity of atmospheric oxygen that creates basic defects within the crystal structure. Of course, this depends on the actual nature and composition of the clay but it does happen with certain frequency. 
In commercial operations where media needs to be buffered the easiest thing to do is to first run a pH 3-4.5 buffer over the media within the hydroponic setup for a few days, adding more buffering agent if the pH drifts. When the pH remains constant the solution is ready. Usually good these buffering agents include acetate/actic acid and phosphoric acid/hydrogen phosphate but others such as citric acid species may also be used. Especially since they also have the ability to chelate cations and make the process faster. The initial buffer is usually prepared at 0.5 mM but the concentration can be increased if needed. After this the system is flushed and the crop is started.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 24, 2010)

Update: Day 6 of flower

I have some browning on some leaves, it happens to be leaves I will have to cut soon once the canopy fills out. But what do you guys think should I be concerned, am I feeding too heavy? As you can see she looks lush on the top.

Anyways I have spotted a few pistils so its a girl.

View attachment 1286017View attachment 1286019View attachment 1286020


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## legallyflying (Nov 24, 2010)

You have to ask yourself... WWSBD?

Seriously though, it doesn't look good and you should probably find out what is going on. To me, it looks like a calcium deficiency the only thing from saying YES, that is it, is the lack of interveinal chlorosis on the upper Ileaves. But it is starting at the bottom and working its way up AND your not adding anything but bloom macro nutrients. It's hard to tell from the angle of the photo but are the leaves all kind of pointing up, like they are reaching for something? That is another classic sign of a deficiency. Magnesium can be locked out by too mch amonium based nitrogen or calcium. Are you using RO water? Are you adding micro-nutrients? If your using distilled water I would highly suggest you throw some calmag in with your nutes. don't freak, its cheap. So I would say, just add the fucker as it can't hurt and i would bet that is what is going on.


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## Serapis (Nov 24, 2010)

That's strange, as the Flora Nova has Calcium in it. Interested in how this turns out.


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## legallyflying (Nov 24, 2010)

yeah apparently it does have that. It also says it has humic extracts in it. Not sure if that means fluvic acid as that it is the only humic compound that can be absorbed in a hydro system. Don't know much about the GH stuff, I'm just looking at the leaves. Serpis, does it look like Ca deficiency to you?


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## Megalith (Nov 24, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> here you go megalith:http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hydro/msg100749279742.html
> 
> I had a similar problem and there are a shit ton of links about hydroton jacking ph if not properly treated.
> 
> ...


Rep+(after I spread some)

Just out of curiosity, what is your feeding schedule?


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## Serapis (Nov 24, 2010)

Yes it does, which is surprising, due to Ca being in the soup. Let me check my handy lock out guide....

Calcium gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at pH levels of 2.0- 5.3 
Calcium is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at pH levels of 5.4-5.8 

If Jim is not doing it yet, I recommend that he try to adjust PH by adjusting PPM...

We should also check Scotty's journal and see what kind of water he was using. Jim very well may need al-Mag.... I wish Scotty was watching this thread closer.... Maybe he went away on holiday?


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## Megalith (Nov 24, 2010)

I'm not so sure it's calcium. It is after all just the bloom form which is probably high P and low N. I dont use it so it's an educated guess. When was the last res change? What is PH and PPM? If the res hasnt been changed since the start or within the last 4 weeks it could be that theyre using up all of and element. Then it wont matter what PPM is. I dont adhere to the 1 nute grow but thats just me. I'm not saying you cant, since Scott's grow did finish nicely. However, we all know they need nigh levels of N in veg and P in bloom. A 1 part nute cant address both. Another thing to consider is ph problems show on leaves. Has it been swinging widely?


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## Serapis (Nov 24, 2010)

Good point on the Res change. Maybe it is just time.

My baby broke past the cotelydon stage and has her first node. I'm so proud 

LOL


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 24, 2010)

i lost my wwsbd braclet today, but I do have some micronutrient stuff from earthjuice its called like microblast or something else and its made for hydro, i just wanted to make sure i wasent burning the plant. i will be feeding here again tomorrow or the next day do you think a little bit of that micronutrient will hurt?


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## Serapis (Nov 24, 2010)

I'd hate to tell ya to add it if the ppms are high.... How much water have you topped off with since the last reservoir change?

+REP

Jimbo now has two rep bars


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## Megalith (Nov 24, 2010)

again, what are the PPM and PH now. what were they on the previous readings you took? when was the last res change? before you start guessing.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 24, 2010)

fuck, i typed like a essay on my phone hit the wrong button and lost it all, so i tried again hit post reply and nothing crappy, ill post it when i get home.


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## legallyflying (Nov 24, 2010)

Couple things. Nurient lock out, especially micro is not just a function of ph. Excess concentrations of one may lock out another. Another big reason to change your Rez at least every ten days. I change mine everyweek. Some people don't change much at all bug then again some people don't brush their teeth either. 

My nutrient schedule is printed on the back of the botanicare bottles. Lol. Seriously though, after following someone elses nite schedule from a grow thread and pretty much starving my plants almost to death, i just followed the label. I don't blindly follow the label though. I only run grow and calmag during veg with a shot of superthrive. I save the liquid karma, sensizyme, sugars, carbos (liquid light foliar and mollasses in Rez every other week) until the week before 12/12. My veg ppms are in the 600-900 range and 
flower they range 1000-1700. 

Nutrient change and rez scrub every saturday. Flush between veg/flower. I also run a course of hydrogen peroxide when starting or whenever adding new plants. I innoculate each plant site with myco m. (but not before h2o2 as that is just dumb). 
That's it in a but shell. Organic nutes, biotics in the roots, fluvic acids and enzymes to keep the mycos happy. No bloom boosters or fancy multi mix stuff 

Not trying to hijack your thread, he asked


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 24, 2010)

My Ph was at 5.6 this morning and I just checked it and it was at 5.9 so its good it is rising. I dont know my PPM I dont have a meter and cant get one till the next grow but I am feeding from what it says too on the back and it says that it is 900PPM so I assume the PPM is less than that because I cant get all of the freshwater out when I feed her with the nutrient solution, the solution must be dilluted a bit maybe like 750 or 800PPM. 


Ok so I have no clue what a rez change is, is it just running clean nutrient free water for a couple of days if so I haven't done that yet. I also have florakleen should I be useing that when I flush I am so use to soil I didnt think I had to flush.

Here is how I have been feeding her, I have been following the directions on the back of the bottle and I make a 2gal solution and I feed her. As the water evaporates I add fresh water to make sure it stays at the 2gal mark. Then once I use 2gal of fresh water I drain as much water as I can out and I add a fresh nutrient solution and repeat the cycle. Should I be flushing at some point I had no clue about how to or how often.


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## Serapis (Nov 24, 2010)

Yes, a flush cycle is good to remove salts. I intend to do one with Drip Clean every other flush. My understanding with the waterfarm is that we empty it, add PH'd clean water and drip clean or florakleen and let that cycle for about 24 hours. Then we drain again and add fresh water and nutes. I plan on following a schedule like that every other flush, so maybe once in a plant's life time. For a simple flush, I'll drain, add PH'd water and drip clean, wait 24 and just add nutes, without swaping water out again.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 24, 2010)

How often should I be flushing, should I do it tonight? And what about a little florakleen to break down the accumulated salts.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 24, 2010)

I have this stuff too I am just not using it because I was going for simplicity, I was terrified I would screw this hydro grow up and wanted to take it easy.

View attachment 1287379

I have FloraGrow, FloraBloom, and FloraMicro, I also have View attachment 1287383 Earth Juice Microblast. 

Earth Juice Microblast is a proprietary liquid micronutrient formula to be used to prevent and correct micronutrient deficiencies. Contains Magnesium 0.50%; Boron 0.02%; Cobalt 0.0005%; Iron 0.10%; Manganese 0.05%; Molybdenum 0.0005%; and Zinc 0.05% in an organic base. Naturally buffered for assured plant absorption. May be watered in or used as a foliage spray. Use 2 tsp. Earth Juice Microblast / gallon of water.

Ingredients: Kelp meal, magnesium sulfate, borax, cobalt sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, sodium molybdate and zinc sulfate.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 24, 2010)

Do you guys think I should use some of the FloraGrow or just stay the course? Bush stayed the course and it didn't work out well.


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## Serapis (Nov 24, 2010)

I'd go with a flush, if you haven't done one since the start. Use some Florakleen and nothing else. New water and nutes about 24-48 hours later.

Maybe go through Scotty's journal and look for any problems and how he handled it.


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## legallyflying (Nov 24, 2010)

When you need to top off, the guideline is add 1/2 strength nutes typically. If you wanted to avoid always having to top stuff off. You could always build a seperate Rez out of a 5 gallon bucket or a tuff tote and just plumb it in to your buckets with some grommets and 1/2 black tubing. 

You don't neccessarily need to flush for two days, just empty the container pour some tap water through from the top, empty it, and then pour some floro clean mix through it, empty, and then put your nutes in. A GOOD ppm meter isn't really a luxury with hydro it's a nessasity. 

Flush, add some micro nutes and I'm sure you will be fine. Tips curling under and getting burnt is the classic sign of over feeding. Watch the bottom leaves for this.


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## Megalith (Nov 24, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> Couple things. Nurient lock out, especially micro is not just a function of ph. Excess concentrations of one may lock out another. Another big reason to change your Rez at least every ten days. I change mine everyweek. Some people don't change much at all bug then again some people don't brush their teeth either.
> 
> My nutrient schedule is printed on the back of the botanicare bottles. Lol. Seriously though, after following someone elses nite schedule from a grow thread and pretty much starving my plants almost to death, i just followed the label. I don't blindly follow the label though. I only run grow and calmag during veg with a shot of superthrive. I save the liquid karma, sensizyme, sugars, carbos (liquid light foliar and mollasses in Rez every other week) until the week before 12/12. My veg ppms are in the 600-900 range and
> flower they range 1000-1700.
> ...


I wanted to know how many times a day do you flood and when? I read your thread. You said you changed interval in the beginning but didn't say how often or when.


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## Megalith (Nov 24, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Do you guys think I should use some of the FloraGrow or just stay the course? Bush stayed the course and it didn't work out well.


lol. this is your grow. Plus Bush is , was, and always will be an idiot.

I would hit it with a little bit of that Eart juice. Dont go crazy with it. There is a deficency.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 24, 2010)

Megalith said:


> lol. this is your grow. Plus Bush is , was, and always will be an idiot.


 Lol, im gonna stay the course not because I agree with bush, oh no if I had one wish it would be to remove fox news from existence.


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## Megalith (Nov 24, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Lol, im gonna stay the course not because I agree with bush, oh no if I had one wish it would be to remove fox news from existence.


yeah, I think there motto is fair and unbiased news. what a load of sh*t


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 24, 2010)

Megalith said:


> yeah, I think there motto is fair and unbiased news. what a load of sh*t


 I know right and recently they called NPR nazies the irony kills me its like they are doing it on purpose just to piss me off.


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## Serapis (Nov 25, 2010)

Screw Fox News.... 

Let's grow a plant! 

I had a seed in a rapid rooter and the tap root emerged from the top and grew to about an inch. (I had the rooter covered with a solo cup for darkness). Maybe in soil it would have corrected itself, but in the rooter, it appeared 'confused'. I decided to take it out and place it in my other Waterfarm as a back up measure, to see if it would take. I thought about planting it in a seed mix, but decided to see how Scotty's method works. In less than 24 hours, the cotelydon is emerging from the embryo placenta and husk. I have a very close shot of it here...

I'm surprised it's going to make it.

If you see the green on the hydroton, good eye. I ran the unit 2 weeks straight with just water and drip clean. I noticed an algae forming 2 days ago and sprayed it with 35% h2o2 and added 7 drops of an algae killer for aquariums and plants. The algae is going away. I now have it covered with foil so it is not receiving light.


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## legallyflying (Nov 25, 2010)

+ rep for all those that shit on fox news 

My flood schedule was 7 minute flood with 1 1/2 hour interval. Now I'm on a deep 10 minute flood and 3 hour interval. There is a shit load of roots in the table and the prevent allot of nutes from draining hence the longer interval. Pumped up the nutes to 1800 noticed some tip curl on the lowers so immediately diluted to 1500. 

Happy thanksgiving


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 25, 2010)

Update: 1st week of flower

So I flushed and reefed her last night I gave her some micro nutrients also she looks very happy, She seems to be filling in the screen very fast I accidentally snapped a small branch just a bit so I taped her up and she should do fine. I have never abused a plant so much I still have to get a pic of the gash that was left from when I dropped the screen on her.

View attachment 1289001View attachment 1289002


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## legallyflying (Nov 25, 2010)

You need to delete some messages your box is too full for
me to send


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 25, 2010)

Here is a picture of where the plant bent way to much by accidentally dropping the screen on her when I was attaching it, and it left a gash. It hasn't affected the growth at all I added the fans that I had they are doing a good job for now well see if they hold up when the plant is bigger. You can also see the tape I had to attach to the branch I snapped recently I will remove the tape in a couple of weeks and see if she is all healed up.

View attachment 1289277View attachment 1289280


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 25, 2010)

I just purchased a PPM meter, and some calibrating solution off of ebay. I already have storage, and cleaning solution for my Ph meter I assume I can use those on the PPM meter.

View attachment 1289356


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## legallyflying (Nov 25, 2010)

Nice dude. I don't do anything special to my meter but I lost the instructions so maybe I should be.


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## Serapis (Nov 26, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I just purchased a PPM meter, and some calibrating solution off of ebay. I already have storage, and cleaning solution for my Ph meter I assume I can use those on the PPM meter.
> 
> View attachment 1289356


congrats! That will go a long way in keeping your grows healthy! 

Glad to see you could get that!


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## remi11 (Nov 26, 2010)

man looking good i too snapped one and i didnt learn till earlier today that i could use duct tape sucks though cause she broke about 3 days ago i dont know if its too late or not. but looks good man and that ppm meter will save u ALOT of guess work


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 26, 2010)

I know right I can not wait to dial it in, and know exactly what im feeding her. She needs to be in top shape there are a ton of bud sites I will definitely need to know how to feed her as much as she needs.


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## remi11 (Nov 27, 2010)

major bugger i broke off TWO fan leaves and one side of new growth toward the end of the main stalk when i was bending her this morning


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 27, 2010)

remi11 said:


> major bugger i broke off TWO fan leaves and one side of new growth toward the end of the main stalk when i was bending her this morning


 No worries I have already broke two fan leaves and it didn't seem to hurt her at all. I also broke that one branch and its completely fine and perking up.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 27, 2010)

Update day 9 flower

So I have to say she is really taking off I am exposing a ton of sites and there are so fuckin many it is amazing. The growth is insane she is drinking a bucket a day of water I cant wait for my PPM meter to get here so I can really dial it in. I am just going to tie the branches in the back down because there is room over there and there is a exposed spot by the PVC so they should fit in just fine. The Ph has been slowly rising throughout the day, I guess she is eating a lot its become easier and easier to keep the ph stable. The stem is monstrous by the end of the grow it will be ripping the plug apart like the HULK.



View attachment 1292201View attachment 1292204View attachment 1292205


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## growalater (Nov 27, 2010)

Nice looking man. My stems look just like yours with the bubbles and everything. I am starting to fill out nicely too. Mine as well is drinking a lot per day. Stinky as all hell too lol. I am in about week 3 of veg and feeding 500ppm. Started to see a bit of a burn so tomorrow prolly going down to 425ppm. Nice to see your grow is really working out for you.


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Nov 27, 2010)

Jim.. I looked threw your last few set of pictures and I dont see much wrong.. them spots you see can come and go but Ive never seen them turn into somthing that effected yeild in anyway.. When I have seen them they last for a week or so then usally end up clearing itself up within about 2 weeks.. usally right before they start the 12/12 stretch.. it is posible it could use some cal.. however thats only if your using RO or Distilled water.. 


Scotty


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## Megalith (Nov 28, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I just purchased a PPM meter, and some calibrating solution off of ebay. I already have storage, and cleaning solution for my Ph meter I assume I can use those on the PPM meter.
> 
> View attachment 1289356


They need to be calibrated, even new. Glad you have meter now. I hope you had a good holiday.


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## Serapis (Nov 28, 2010)

Megalith said:


> They need to be calibrated, even new. Glad you have meter now. I hope you had a good holiday.


My TDC/EC/ppm meter came already calibrated. I did have to calibrate my PH meter though. I also saved the calibration liquids.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 28, 2010)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> Jim.. I looked threw your last few set of pictures and I dont see much wrong.. them spots you see can come and go but Ive never seen them turn into somthing that effected yeild in anyway.. When I have seen them they last for a week or so then usally end up clearing itself up within about 2 weeks.. usally right before they start the 12/12 stretch.. it is posible it could use some cal.. however thats only if your using RO or Distilled water..
> 
> 
> Scotty


Yea I noticed she looked much better after adding a little cal mag I have been using a lot of RO water from the store. I dont mind it because the only leaves that were affected were at the bottom and the way she is filling in they will be long gone.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 28, 2010)

Serapis said:


> My TDC/EC/ppm meter came already calibrated. I did have to calibrate my PH meter though. I also saved the calibration liquids.


 Yea I buy the calibrating liquid because I am always paranoid that my meter will become uncalibrated and my readings will be wrong without me knowing it I like to check my Ph meter every few months just to make sure its accurate. It is probably overkill since I am really not sure if they can uncalibrate themselves but better safe than sorry it was only 9 bucks for a big bottle that should last years..


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 28, 2010)

Update: day 10 of flower

So I used some twist ties to tie down the smaller branches that would have broke if I attempted to bend them, and I just keep pulling more and more bud sites up its amazing how many of them I keep noticing.

So how many of you trim the foliage below the screen. and when do you do this?

View attachment 1294038View attachment 1294039


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## Serapis (Nov 28, 2010)

I'm assuming you clean up the underside after the stretch is over. That would allow the plant to focus it's energy on the portion of the plant getting light.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 28, 2010)

Right, I think once the canopy is filled which should be by the end of the week I will start to slowly trim tiny hidden nodes off that wont make it up so they dont take away any energy. I will let the large fan leaves die off on their own I figure the plant already made them no sense in removing them when they will work till the end and the plant will absorb nutrients from them.


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## legallyflying (Nov 29, 2010)

yeah,don't mess with the lower yet. I typically TUCK them under the screen, I don't tie them down to the screen. But your at day ten and the stretch may be coming to an end. 

They look great, next time however, wait another week to flip and fill that screen a little more. Its all about knowing how much the strain stretches.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 29, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> yeah,don't mess with the lower yet. I typically TUCK them under the screen, I don't tie them down to the screen. But your at day ten and the stretch may be coming to an end.
> 
> They look great, next time however, wait another week to flip and fill that screen a little more. Its all about knowing how much the strain stretches.


 Yea I had no clue so I didn't want to over fill the screen I will definitely have some small gaps very small ones. Next time I think I will use two buckets, not only because I hate only having 1 plant in-case something happens to it Id rather have a backup. But I will be able to veg less and I feel the screen is too big its difficult to get those far edges filled.

I was going to tuck those one branches but I feel they are too far past the screen and I would definitely snap them.


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## Megalith (Nov 29, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> yeah,don't mess with the lower yet. I typically TUCK them under the screen, I don't tie them down to the screen. But your at day ten and the stretch may be coming to an end.
> 
> They look great, next time however, wait another week to flip and fill that screen a little more. Its all about knowing how much the strain stretches.


I kept pullling mine under into the 3rd week. It was too much I think for these F1 hybrids. I noticed some of the lower part of some buds are growing horizontal. Just a warning, I thought I would get more stretch and they would all come up. I didn't. 1st scrog is a learning experience. My next one I will let it go around 7-10 days. Specific for my strain. Just thought I should warn you. Ive seen in threads and guides to pull them under until strech is completed. I would say no, halfway through to ensure the bottom of the buds grow over the top of the screen. I have some uneveness where that nug on the bottom of the bud didnt make it up. It just wasted sspace. It was my error.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 29, 2010)

I can see that being a problem I think I am going to let them go, if they get to tall I can always tie them down a bit.


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## legallyflying (Nov 29, 2010)

I agree with mega. My plants were going ape ahit the first week. 3" a day growth. Kept training but around day ten the really slowed. They have grown maybe 6" in the third/forth week. Even the more sativa JH stopped stretching. Most buds are above the screen but would have been nice to have them a little taller so I could manipulate them to maximize direct lighting on all buds. Might not be a problem for most but my screen is packed tighter than a nuns cunt


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## remi11 (Nov 29, 2010)

man really looks good mines not as filled out as your but i dont know white widow seems kinda bushy lol maybe its just me but ya i took these with the webcam so they suck lol


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 29, 2010)

It does just look bushy maybe it will stretch a ton during flower.


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## remi11 (Nov 30, 2010)

Oh I started flower right at a week ago. Today is the 8th DAY. So ya its doing its thing just slower than id like lol


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 30, 2010)

lookin good man im sold on this method now. Right now im running a soma bed style ebb and flow table with a 240w 6 band led. My plants just got the flip the other day and they were going ape shit before the flip. I mean im talkin at least 2 inches of growth a day. It took them about 5 days to acclimate to the led and the table after being pulled out the dome and they were only 3 inches high now they are easily pushing 12. beasts lol, cant wait for that grow to get done and ill probably use it to fund a smaller personal closet grow and see how much i can get off of 1 plant like scotty. Im going to be low key og about it though and go led again plus it keeps my bills and heat down you know? looks good so far man cant wait til i can pick up my own waterfarm and start in on this method


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 30, 2010)

I feel you on the LED's I have seen some growers have great success with them. They are too expensive for me as of now, I am going to wait for the technology to advance and the cost to come down. But yea I dont understand how they grow so much, its insane in the past I though I had big stems in soil but my god this thing is huge.


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## Megalith (Nov 30, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I feel you on the LED's I have seen some growers have great success with them. They are too expensive for me as of now, I am going to wait for the technology to advance and the cost to come down. But yea I dont understand how they grow so much, its insane in the past I though I had big stems in soil but my god this thing is huge.


Same thgoughts. Ive seen great results with the expensive panels. I tried some UFO's. The 32 nm reds. Pfff. Flowering was week. Maybe not enough blue/white light. When theyre cheap I'll be knee deep in them. Although, I have considered buiding them and just adding whites.

or even this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76_XpxguEaA&feature=related


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 30, 2010)

Wow that dude has a nice light setup, once I have a permanent residence I would love to build something like that for lighting, combining LED's and HID lights.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Nov 30, 2010)

Update: Day 12 of Flower

So as you can see they are really poking through. I am going to take some measurements tonight and monitor them and I will just tie the taller ones over a bit because I anticipate some big buds. Hydro is much more simple to grow in than soil I am blown away and will only grow weed in soil if its a mother plant, even then I can just use a bucket like this. She is really taking off fast cant wait for the ppm meter too get here.

View attachment 1298266View attachment 1298268View attachment 1298284


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## remi11 (Nov 30, 2010)

wow loving it man


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## legallyflying (Dec 1, 2010)

Looking good jb. If you have 2 feet of grow room on top of your screen I would maybe tuck the biggest two
or three stems under (like the ones in back) under and just let them grow. They should really start to slow down soon. Have you seen any buds forming yet? They will explode overnight and then growth will really taper off. Once my buds formed they have grown maybe a foot in two weeks. You want the buds above the screen


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 1, 2010)

No buds yet this is one of the slowest strains to show sex, they just started to form calaxe's and pistils like two days ago. She will probably be exploding with growth soon, I am going to try and tuck those back ones its just so hard to reach all the way back there.


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## legallyflying (Dec 1, 2010)

Lol. You should see me trying to get to the backside of my screen. I have to slide on my back under the flood table which is 14" off the ground. Then when I get to the other side I have to pull myself into a seated position underneath the screen with 12" bewteen the table and the wall. My face is right in the middle of the plants and the make
my face itch. It's quite an ordeal but when I switch to buckets all that nonsense will be over  

I also picked up a patient so that's another 6 legal plants


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 1, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> Lol. You should see me trying to get to the backside of my screen. I have to slide on my back under the flood table which is 14" off the ground. Then when I get to the other side I have to pull myself into a seated position underneath the screen with 12" bewteen the table and the wall. My face is right in the middle of the plants and the make
> my face itch. It's quite an ordeal but when I switch to buckets all that nonsense will be over
> 
> I also picked up a patient so that's another 6 legal plants


 Congratz, Yea I am getting to the point where I think im just going to let her go. I have been working out for the past four weeks I haven't worked out in like 9 years so I can kinda balance and reach way back, but I am so afraid of falling on the screen or something. I really have to stretch and tie the twist tie's with two fingers so I can stabilize myself.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 1, 2010)

Update Day 13 of Flower

She is really filling in even more I am going to add another fan in the space that is open on the screen. I hope she is done stretching she is starting to shoot pistils out finally so I hope she is ready to just focus on making buds. 

I found my bottle of Earth Juice catalyst, info listed below but its about 2 years old there is not experation date on the bottle. How long do you think this stuff last for? It smells like it did when I first bought it, and I have stored it in a cool dark place the whole time. 
*Earth Juice Catalyst*


Earth Juice Catalyst is a premium organic nutrient additive that encourages compact branching, stimulates optimal fruiting sites, and triggers early yields. Contains enzymes, hormones, vitamins, amino acids, nutrients and surfactants to complete your fertilization program. Catalyst conditions soils and hydroponic solutions for better nutrient availability. Best to use in conjunction with other NPK fertilizers. Mix 3 tbsp. per gallon of water. OMRI Listed for use in organic production.


View attachment 1299928View attachment 1299929View attachment 1299930


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## upthearsenal (Dec 1, 2010)

Wow that looks great jim! How close is the canopy to the light?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 2, 2010)

upthearsenal said:


> Wow that looks great jim! How close is the canopy to the light?


 About 11in I run my light even closer most of the time, I just had it there the light stays fairly cool underneath the glass. Its a giant hood for just a 400w Light, my buddy has a 600w and the reflector is so much tinier then mine I think thats why it stays so cool.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 3, 2010)

Update: Day 15 of flower

They stretched a little more but I think they have to be slowing down they are starting to shoot pistils out like crazy. The idiot I ordered the meter from sent me six random bottles of calibrating solution, which would cost 60 bucks instead of the 30 I spent on the meter and single bottle of solution. I need that meter though, so the fucker better ship it out fast I am so annoyed never had any problems with EBay before but now all of this crap happens. Anyways I am doing a good job she still looks extremely healthy. 

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## remi11 (Dec 4, 2010)

Oh man she looks great hey just a head up if u don't wanna wait or anything there this thing called ZeroWater that comes with a free ppm meter that what I got and it works good. Just throwing that out there lol. Oh and also a piece of growth (very small) fell of last week so I put what little peice of stem I could in dirt and kept her moist and she has started showing signs of growing so another heads up to try with some parts that may or may not break off u may be able to save. But looks great man!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 4, 2010)

Holy fuck I had a horrible dream last night, that my light and tent pretty much collapsed and smashed my plant to bits. It was far to vivid and terrifying Im gonna smoke a ton today so I can forget about it.

This isn't the first time I had dreams about my girls I guess they are on my mind too often.

Yea I saw that zerowater, but I already paid this fucker, and I like Hanna Instruments they are a great brand. It sucks the happened right before the weekend, I probably wont receive a e-mail until Monday.


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## Serapis (Dec 4, 2010)

I'm still waiting for my no-wilt and cal-mag that I paid for on eBay about 10 days ago... I'm going to neg the hell out of the seller for speed...


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 4, 2010)

It sucks too, the place they shipped from is about 45min away from me, I had no clue would have just picked it up myself if I knew that ahead of time.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 5, 2010)

Update: Day 17 Flower

She is just chugging along. 

View attachment 1307828View attachment 1307829View attachment 1307830


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## Megalith (Dec 6, 2010)

They filled nicely. Good job man.


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## Serapis (Dec 6, 2010)

Good looking screen. of my 4 plants in my screen, one of them went funky looking and the top leaves are curling up and the leaves are dry as paper. I watered them heavily yesterday, weird to see only one plant of four in a scrog exhibit this behavior... baffling me....


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## legallyflying (Dec 6, 2010)

Serapis said:


> Good looking screen. of my 4 plants in my screen, one of them went funky looking and the top leaves are curling up and the leaves are dry as paper. I watered them heavily yesterday, weird to see only one plant of four in a scrog exhibit this behavior... baffling me....


hmmm, whats your humidity at? I have had some of my leaves get thick and leathery (combined with a little too dark) signs of over feeding. papery leaves though, hmmm.. 

give this thread a look: https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/1469-marijuana-plant-problems-cures.html


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## growalater (Dec 7, 2010)

Look awesome man. Plus rep for you. These Waterfarms kick ass. At 49 bucks per kit we can't go wrong. I love em.


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## Serapis (Dec 8, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> hmmm, whats your humidity at? I have had some of my leaves get thick and leathery (combined with a little too dark) signs of over feeding. papery leaves though, hmmm..
> 
> give this thread a look: https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/1469-marijuana-plant-problems-cures.html


That thread doesn't cover my leaf description.The fact that only one plant has the problem has me befuddled, because they are all exposed tot he same environment, food, water, etc...


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## remi11 (Dec 8, 2010)

Ya u would think one of the others would have some of the same problems. Looks good jim really filled in nice. I lost electricity two mornings ago and just got it back on today I tried to have a flashlight above the plant and blew in the check tube on the side to try and airate the roots she's still her nice green color hope nothing happened but looks amaIng jim


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## legallyflying (Dec 8, 2010)

How close are your lights? maybe that one plant is just a little bit more thin skinned?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 8, 2010)

So a quick update, my PPM meter came and I checked my PPM and it was 1500 is that good? The plants look great I will post some pictures later just didn't know if that was too high of a PPM.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 9, 2010)

So I had to tie down more branches they are just getting too tall. I hope they are done with their stretch I am running out of room. But anyways she looks good preflowers are coming in like crazy I dont know what my PPM should be at I guess I will see if she drinks it and causes the ppm to lower.

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## Serapis (Dec 9, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> So I had to tie down more branches they are just getting too tall. I hope they are done with their stretch I am running out of room. But anyways she looks good preflowers are coming in like crazy I dont know what my PPM should be at I guess I will see if she drinks it and causes the ppm to lower.
> 
> View attachment 1314109View attachment 1314112View attachment 1314113View attachment 1314114View attachment 1314115


1500 is fine for your stage of growth. Just remember to let the plant do the work. Let it tell you what it needs from here on.


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## Serapis (Dec 9, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> How close are your lights? maybe that one plant is just a little bit more thin skinned?


18" above canopy, 600w in a cool hood.

It's weird...


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 11, 2010)

Update: day 23 flower

Where's everyone at? 


Shit just got real. 

[video=youtube;IUH3JQjcweM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUH3JQjcweM[/video]




My girl is growing like a monster I cant even keep track of all the bud sites, every time I go in there I am rooting through a mini jungle of marijuana and constantly finding new bud sites. Pulling leaves back tieing plants down a bit, the stretch must be over. I am going to have to cut some slits in the top of my tent so I can raise my light more I am completely out of room. 

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## Serapis (Dec 11, 2010)

Looking REAL good.


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## remi11 (Dec 11, 2010)

Dam looking really really good. I just noticed pistils on mine which is a big relief since I just had that power outage a few days ago. Also by chance did u upgrade ur air pump? Or use the one that came with the waterfarm


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## T.M.B (Dec 11, 2010)

Looks good Jim i am learning from your journal and i see i dont want to get greedy thinking i need to fill every hole almost seems to thick for the light to get everything like they need. It looks like some of the nodes are so far apart they will never fill in.Otherwise fucking awesome grow for the first outing with the waterfarm I am really enjoying mine so glad i read scottys journal before i started nice job giving you rep my man.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 11, 2010)

remi11 said:


> Dam looking really really good. I just noticed pistils on mine which is a big relief since I just had that power outage a few days ago. Also by chance did u upgrade ur air pump? Or use the one that came with the waterfarm


 Ohh yea, that air pump that comes with it is worthless, go to a pet store or walmart and get a 60gallon aquarium air pump.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 11, 2010)

T.M.B said:


> Looks good Jim i am learning from your journal and i see i dont want to get greedy thinking i need to fill every hole almost seems to thick for the light to get everything like they need. It looks like some of the nodes are so far apart they will never fill in.Otherwise fucking awesome grow for the first outing with the waterfarm I am really enjoying mine so glad i read scottys journal before i started nice job giving you rep my man.


I dont think I have a problem with light penetrating through, I was looking at pictures of other people that have grown this strain I think it just has larger gaps and grows monster buds.

I had the light about 8in from the plants I have it completely reflective in their, sometimes the node spacing is in the genetics and not so much the amount of light penetrating. There is nothing else I could have done to make the node spacing tighter it was out of my hands I did my part.

Anyways I wouldn't suggest leaving gaps I think my screen filled in pretty damn well. The key is to not let any light go past the screen you want every part of the screen filled. In the end I anticipate I will have some pretty large nugs and alot of them, there are about 32 large colas, and 50 smaller ones give or take a few should end up well.


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## T.M.B (Dec 11, 2010)

please dont take me wrong Jim not knocking your grow or calling you greedy. I was just thinking of my own grow and i have a 4ft. by 6ft. screen and i dont think i want to try and fill every spot. Even though ceiling height should not be an issue cause i have around 5ft. above my screen to work with,I am useing the 2 400w cmhs on light hangers i also made mylar panels hanging on chains that are very easy to adjust. I am so glad i read scottys journal before i built my rooms i love these waterfarms and the 1 nute method my plants are as healthy as can be, it is hard to believe they are only 29 days old today from a 1/4 inch root they hit the top of my screen today which is 13.5 inches above the farms. To think i was almost gonna play in dirt like years ago,again your grow looks great.


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## remi11 (Dec 12, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Ohh yea, that air pump that comes with it is worthless, go to a pet store or walmart and get a 60gallon aquarium air pump.


 Well then that probably explains y mine has been growing at a slower rate. Thanks. + rep


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 12, 2010)

remi11 said:


> Well then that probably explains y mine has been growing at a slower rate. Thanks. + rep


 They are cheap too like 25.00 bucks.


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## legallyflying (Dec 12, 2010)

Looking good my man. One of the biggest factors for big node spacing is temperature difference between lights in and lights off. The smaller the diff, the tighter the nodes. Co2 helps as well. 

I need to post some pics as well but I have been busting hump building a bucket system.. Not waterfarm though, going to be ebb and flow.


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## growalater (Dec 12, 2010)

Looking sexy mAn. Nice grow.


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## al3k5 (Dec 13, 2010)

remi11 said:


> And this site seems to work great with the android platform. I just need to figure out how to upload photos lol


 Yes sir, I completely agree!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 13, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> Looking good my man. One of the biggest factors for big node spacing is temperature difference between lights in and lights off. The smaller the diff, the tighter the nodes. Co2 helps as well.
> 
> I need to post some pics as well but I have been busting hump building a bucket system.. Not waterfarm though, going to be ebb and flow.


I'll post some close ups, the nodes are pretty tight, my temp diff is like 8degres its around 77-79 degrees with the light on, and around 70 with it off. I might get a excel co2 bag for my next grow.

I just ordered some botanicare sweet so I can get this girl nice and plump.


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## Serapis (Dec 13, 2010)

Lot's of good discussions going on here... I LOVE it!.. I'm really pleased with my Waterfarms. I just added nutes to my second farm for the first time and the plant changed appearances overnight. It went lush green and grew about 1" overnight. Both waterfarms are looking sexah now. My soil grows have 3 more weeks to go before I can move the waterfarms under the 600 watter. I have two farms, so I'm thinking of 4'x4' of screen. I'm sure 2' x 4' would easily be filled by one water farm. Hell, looking at Scotty's and Jim's grows, 2 waterfarms is gonna be one too many. 

Keep it up Jim!! Watch those PPM's, the plant should be begging for food now. I'm guessing 1500-1800 ppm?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 15, 2010)

Update: Day 27 of flower.
pH 5.7 PPM 1500

She is in full flower and really shooting out pistils non stop. I am using Earth Juice catalyst now so hopefully that helps out in the weight department. I am going to just call this a tree from now on, the size and feel of the stalk is amazingly like a tree and not like any marijuana I ever grew in soil.

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## Serapis (Dec 16, 2010)

I see your colas have gotten another stretch. Time for the flowers to kick it in.

My Waterfarm baby is exactly 1 month old today from seed. She stands only 7" tall, (flouros) but the stems and stalks are unbelieveable!! My first time growing hydro. The main stem is about 5/8" in diameter. The stems of the fan leaves are about 3-4 times thicker than my soil grows. For a plant this young and under 6500k t-8's, I'm VERY impressed....

Considering the cheap investment cost of a hydrofarm and the easy to follow feed rules, it should be against the law to NOT grow in one of them. 

I think if pushed, a single plant in a farm can produce about 22-24 dried ounces, under the right conditions.

Jim, is your 1500 ppm self sustaining or are you having to add more water than nutes? I'm just curious if the plant wants to cross the 1500 ppm threshold? I'm thinking anything over 1500 ppm isn't used anyways.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 16, 2010)

Honestly I when I am still a little bit confused on figuring out when she wants more. If the PPM's dramatically decrees I imagine she is hungry, my problem is she is drinking a gallon a day so the Nutrients are constantly being concentrated so it is hard for me to gauge if she needs more. The very very tips on about 15% of the leaves is a little burnt so since then I have been taking it easy on the nutes I dont want to over fert at all. If I see any visual signs she is more hungry I will throw her a little more but for now I think 1500 ppm is working out great.

But like I said I dont have a vast understanding on everything about PPM and Marijuana. Im a dirt boy that just jumped into the deep end of the pool not knowing how to swim, but Im fuckin swimming.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 18, 2010)

View attachment 1332474

Can anyone hear me!!!!!!!


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## Serapis (Dec 18, 2010)

Loud n clear...


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 18, 2010)

No one comes by anymore but you serapis. Ohh well maybe once there is some mature bud porn this thread will be hot again. I will post some new pics later today she is looking good.


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## Serapis (Dec 18, 2010)

It is just the time of year is all Jim... Xmas is right around corner.... I'll be here though cause I got nothing or anybody to go see or do....


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## Serapis (Dec 18, 2010)

Bored, just ordered some Tangerine Dream, Barney's Farm from Attitude seeds for my next years grow. Should be interesting. Picture ripping into a fresh tangerine by hand and smelling the sweet citrus oils from the bitter skin spray the air as you pull apart the fruit..... The aroma is clean, vibrant, refreshing citrus that will make your mouth water.

I look forward to growing this. My bubblegums need to hurry up.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 18, 2010)

Update: Day 30 flower

Everything looks great, you really have to monitor the buckets PPM she is drinking so much water the nutrients just go so high, I think I am just going to keep the PPM around 1400-1500 for now.


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## Serapis (Dec 18, 2010)

Beautiful!! Those colas are gonna fill in nicely.


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## SmokeyDaBear84 (Dec 19, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Update: Day 30 flower
> 
> Everything looks great, you really have to monitor the buckets PPM she is drinking so much water the nutrients just go so high, I think I am just going to keep the PPM around 1400-1500 for now.


Wow! Your grow is Great. Thats my next design. I have a 2 x 3 tent with a 400hps cooltube. One plant is all you need. right on!


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## T.M.B (Dec 19, 2010)

hey jim looking good, i am no pro either but i would definately error on the side of caution. I would drain the rez run a day of ph correct water then tomorrow try a rez at 1200 maybe. Everything i have read says if ppm goes up it wants more water than nutes and you dont want to hurt your roots at this stage in the game. I myself am taking baby steps with nutes yesterday gave fresh rez at 800 ppm and today was at 330 so i will be comfortable to put mine at 1000 next time and see how they like it. You are further along but nutes are pricey water is cheap if the plant dont want it why give it.


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## Serapis (Dec 19, 2010)

T.M.B said:


> hey jim looking good, i am no pro either but i would definately error on the side of caution. I would drain the rez run a day of ph correct water then tomorrow try a rez at 1200 maybe. Everything i have read says if ppm goes up it wants more water than nutes and you dont want to hurt your roots at this stage in the game. I myself am taking baby steps with nutes yesterday gave fresh rez at 800 ppm and today was at 330 so i will be comfortable to put mine at 1000 next time and see how they like it. You are further along but nutes are pricey water is cheap if the plant dont want it why give it.


That is a single plant covering that entire screen. The plant drinks nearly a gallon a day. It is doing well at 1500 ppm, with maybe small traces of nute burns. The plant will actually tell you what it needs without you having to guess. All you have to do is read back a bit on this thread for a full understanding of our ppm discussion. Rather than make guesses, do unnecessary flushes, etc., we closely watch our plant and our ppm/PH. If the PH moves much overnight, we know we need to adjust our ppms up or down. It isn't rocket science, and I would hardly have a full grown adult plant at 800 ppms. You are only stunting it and constantly adjusting ppm and ph...


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## T.M.B (Dec 19, 2010)

serepis you are crazy read scottys journal again my friend,and i can tell you my plants are not close to being stunted at 36 days from seed they are huge my 4 by 6 foot screen is almost filled and i have not switched to 12/12 yet i have no yellow tips nothing but health and i heard you say how big your farm plants are at age and mine are over double your size at same age so lol at your advice.I have even looked at your grows not impressed and you wonder why people call you a idiot it fits.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 19, 2010)

T.M.B said:


> serepis you are crazy read scottys journal again my friend,and i can tell you my plants are not close to being stunted at 36 days from seed they are huge my 4 by 6 foot screen is almost filled and i have not switched to 12/12 yet i have no yellow tips nothing but health and i heard you say how big your farm plants are at age and mine are over double your size at same age so lol at your advice.I have even looked at your grows not impressed and you wonder why people call you a idiot it fits.


 I know 1500 might seem high, but there are people that go into 1800, and I think the raising PPM is due to the amount of water and the rate she is drinking. I feel its a very large plant for the 2 gallon bucket it is in. I think 1500 is more on the side of caution, I was at one point reaching 1700 last week so since then I have slowed it down and no negative effects have aroused. But the PPM is also strain specific remember some strains are hungrier then others and this strain is not fucking around.

I wish I had the ability to experiment I would love to see how far I can push this plant but I am not going to take any risks.

I feed right at 1500, and then top of with plain water so she is always staying right around 1200-1500.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 19, 2010)

SmokeyDaBear84 said:


> Wow! Your grow is Great. Thats my next design. I have a 2 x 3 tent with a 400hps cooltube. One plant is all you need. right on!


 Yes it is all you need, I might do two next time because I had a few small gapes I could have filled in and I will have two strains instead of one. Also I will be able to veg for just 3 or 2.5 weeks instead of the 4 I did this time around.


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## Serapis (Dec 19, 2010)

T.M.B said:


> serepis you are crazy read scottys journal again my friend,and i can tell you my plants are not close to being stunted at 36 days from seed they are huge my 4 by 6 foot screen is almost filled and i have not switched to 12/12 yet i have no yellow tips nothing but health and i heard you say how big your farm plants are at age and mine are over double your size at same age so lol at your advice.I have even looked at your grows not impressed and you wonder why people call you a idiot it fits.


 I had written 3-4 responses to the above quoted thread and I couldn't come up with anything nice to say. I will therefore let the TMB noob get away with calling me an idiot. He'll claim he didn't, everybody else did. But since no one else is, he may have well just have been a man and said it. If TMB wants to hide behind 'others' calling me an idiot, so be it. Out of respect to Jimbo, this response was edited numerous times to prevent this from becoming a name calling match.


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## Serapis (Dec 19, 2010)

T.M.B said:


> serepis you are crazy read scottys journal again my friend,and i can tell you my plants are not close to being stunted at 36 days from seed they are huge my 4 by 6 foot screen is almost filled and i have not switched to 12/12 yet i have no yellow tips nothing but health and i heard you say how big your farm plants are at age and mine are over double your size at same age so lol at your advice.I have even looked at your grows not impressed and you wonder why people call you a idiot it fits.


Pictures please? I'd love to see your 4' x 6' screen 'filled' after only 36 days from seed.


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## Serapis (Dec 19, 2010)

T.M.B said:


> please dont take me wrong Jim not knocking your grow or calling you greedy. I was just thinking of my own grow and i have a 4ft. by 6ft. screen and i dont think i want to try and fill every spot. Even though ceiling height should not be an issue cause i have around 5ft. above my screen to work with,I am useing the 2 400w cmhs on light hangers i also made mylar panels hanging on chains that are very easy to adjust. I am so glad i read scottys journal before i built my rooms i love these waterfarms and the 1 nute method my plants are as healthy as can be, it is hard to believe they are only 29 days old today from a 1/4 inch root they hit the top of my screen today which is 13.5 inches above the farms. To think i was almost gonna play in dirt like years ago,again your grow looks great.


Wow, according to this post, at 29 days you were just reaching the screen, and yet 7 days later you have completely filled the screen.... Amazing.....

The only thing that will save you from looking like a complete liar and blowhard now would be pictures, which you have yet to post a single one.


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## T.M.B (Dec 19, 2010)

sorry jim but yes serrepis thats what i am saying when i hit the top of my screen and started pulling branches through 7 days ago each plant had around 8 tops sticking out, now twice a day i can go down and rearange branches and it has been multiplying faster than i could have ever hoped for, and i said i was not going to try and fill every hole. also from what i can see on this website is you getting on peoples nerves constantly and you do seem like a creep no doubt sorry it wasnt idiot, it was dousche. I will not respond to you anymore on jims thread.


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## Serapis (Dec 19, 2010)

T.M.B said:


> sorry jim but yes serrepis thats what i am saying when i hit the top of my screen and started pulling branches through 7 days ago each plant had around 8 tops sticking out, now twice a day i can go down and rearange branches and it has been multiplying faster than i could have ever hoped for, and i said i was not going to try and fill every hole. also from what i can see on this website is you getting on peoples nerves constantly and you do seem like a creep no doubt sorry it wasnt idiot, it was dousche. I will not respond to you anymore on jims thread.


Yeah, I have over 1000+ +REP points for being a douche, lol.... whatever dude... You must think highly of yourself and your 33 whole posts. You act like you know whats going on in the RIU forums yet, you have participated in what, 4 whole threads? You are nothing but a trouble maker with a mouth. It's a shame you apparently are unwilling to post pictures to back up your trash talk and name calling. This thread is about a waterfarm grow. The reason my 30+ day old plant is only 7-9" is because I'm patiently awaiting room in my 600 watt tent. The farm is currently under 6500k florescents, as I have already stated, while yours is under 2 400 watt lights. I'd expect your plant to be bigger, professor dim bulb. But once my plant is under the 600 watter and growing like there is no tomorrow, I'll up my nutes to 1500 ppm to achieve max growth rate. That is after all why I'm growing hydro... If TMB had the intelligence to know what he was spewing off about, he wouldn't be trying to compare our plants....

We were discussing ppms and PH before you butted in with your name calling and holier than thou advice. Stick with your 800 ppm... at least you'll be safe... lol.... Why not just go back to soil? Don't bother answering if all you are going to do is toss more names my way. I'm looking for intelligent conversation here, we aren't running a day care operation....

The poster, Jim, has already explained why he is running 1500 ppm. I support his assessment and reasoning. I'm terribly sorry that you do not....


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 19, 2010)

Hey at least my thread is getting some action. I dont mind the arguing just try and keeps the points legitimate no fallacy's here.


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## Serapis (Dec 19, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Hey at least my thread is getting some action. I dont mind the arguing just try and keeps the points legitimate no fallacy's here.


LOL.... and keep the childish name calling outside... If you need it to make a point, then you have no point to make TMB...


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## T.M.B (Dec 19, 2010)

what a joke we are all trying to copy i mans grow and thats scottyballs right, in my opinion he has done all the homework for us and i owe him all the credit to my plants success. As for my 800 i am right about were scotty was at the same time. As well scotty recomended a flush every 2 weeks and its not nutes its a healthy root system i would think the almighty serepis would know that so fu jackass and your useless post.


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## Serapis (Dec 19, 2010)

T.M.B said:


> what a joke we are all trying to copy i mans grow and thats scottyballs right, in my opinion he has done all the homework for us and i owe him all the credit to my plants success. As for my 800 i am right about were scotty was at the same time. As well scotty recomended a flush every 2 weeks and its not nutes its a healthy root system i would think the almighty serepis would know that so fu jackass and your useless post.


ROFL 

almighty? hardly.... lol

Look, this thread ain't about you or your grow. We were discussing Jim's PPMs and PH, compared to where his grow is at, not yours. 

Again with the name calling? Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

Lovely pics TMB.... absolutely lovely...


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## remi11 (Dec 19, 2010)

wow i leave for a week or so and man it got crazy in here well to lighten thing id like to FIRST say Jim your grow looks amazing (again) lol. wish i would have changed out the air pump sooner. here a couple pics where mines at right now now where near urs but im happy with it. oh and the little obe was some growth that fbroke off awhile back and i just stuck it in some soil


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 19, 2010)

T.M.B said:


> what a joke we are all trying to copy i mans grow and thats scottyballs right, in my opinion he has done all the homework for us and i owe him all the credit to my plants success. As for my 800 i am right about were scotty was at the same time. As well scotty recomended a flush every 2 weeks and its not nutes its a healthy root system i would think the almighty serepis would know that so fu jackass and your useless post.


 No offense to scotty, but no one has done all the research. You can never do enough research Scottys method is more of a cheap, and simple with great results kind of thing. You should always be doing more research and expanding ideas, although scottys method is dope as hell.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 19, 2010)

LOL remi, I cant believe those branches took off in soil like that, thats absolutely amazing. Marijuana is one tough SOB.


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## remi11 (Dec 20, 2010)

ya its dope. i always heard to take a full cutting so many inches long and remove All lower stems use root gel and put in dome shittttttttt imagime the beginning of growth and when ud normally cut off to top a plant well thats want got pulled off and just stuck in dirt NOT EVEN immediately and viola! maybe half an inch in dirt and half an inch out of dirt, lol


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## remi11 (Dec 21, 2010)

dam stilll no chatter? ooook bout that time. (4:20pm) happy smoking


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 21, 2010)

I just got back from getting a bag, fuck I missed 4:20 ohh well, I will have pictures later tonight tune in.


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## Serapis (Dec 21, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I just got back from getting a bag, fuck I missed 4:20 ohh well, I will have pictures later tonight tune in.


You still having to buy? You are going to love harvest then. I have 3 oz left from last harvest and am harvesting again this Friday. For Christmas, I'll be setting up a 4' x 4' screen and two waterfarms. The main stalks on these damn plants is amazing, almost an inch thick already. This will be my last bubblelicious grow for awhile. I'm going to do Tangerine Dreams next. I should be smoking Tangerine Dreams by summer 

If ya want some bubble gum smoke Jim, come on by, I can spare a z...


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 23, 2010)

Update: Week 5 of flower
She is really frosting out and filling in, I have bumped the ppm's to 1600-1700, she is looking great aot of buds, I dont know if I should have trimmed some of the lower bud spots of so the tops fill in more, either way ill have lots of bud.

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## remi11 (Dec 23, 2010)

mmmmmMMMMM


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## upthearsenal (Dec 24, 2010)

Looking great man! She's gonna be frosty


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## RonMcDonald (Dec 24, 2010)

I have GOT to try this next time!


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## Arsehole (Dec 24, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Update: Week 5 of flower
> She is really frosting out and filling in, I have bumped the ppm's to 1600-1700, she is looking great aot of buds, I dont know if I should have trimmed some of the lower bud spots of so the tops fill in more, either way ill have lots of bud.
> 
> View attachment 1340917View attachment 1340915View attachment 1340919View attachment 1340922


Looking good. I've got some white widow 7 weeks into flower myself, probably another 3 weeks before they're ready. These girls take forever to finish.


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## Serapis (Dec 24, 2010)

My fingers are stanky.... Guess I'lls tart my waterfarm thread. tri9mming my latest bud and making room in tent. Gonna switch over to MH conversion bulb


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## Serapis (Dec 24, 2010)

Just got an email from Nirvana..... The big Xmas sale is ON!!! a pack of 5 fem'ed White Widow for only 15 euros.


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## Arsehole (Dec 24, 2010)

Serapis said:


> Just got an email from Nirvana..... The big Xmas sale is ON!!! a pack of 5 fem'ed White Widow for only 15 euros.


I'm having some bad luck with the fem'ed WW from nirvana. Two of my plants are herming like crazy, I'm pulling bananas off twice a day.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 24, 2010)

I am waiting for Attitude to have a Christmas or at least a new year sale they have to do something. They just had that one giveaway and said more too come this month so I am hopeing tomorrow.


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## Serapis (Dec 24, 2010)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I am waiting for Attitude to have a Christmas or at least a new year sale they have to do something. They just had that one giveaway and said more too come this month so I am hopeing tomorrow.


They are outta stock of almost all of Barney's Farm seeds......


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## remi11 (Dec 25, 2010)

ya i got mine from attitute. and my girl went trrhough a TWO DAY power outage. now bubble from the pump no light NOTHING and shes doing good. i was afraid shed go hermie but no godd as she could be. oh and merry christmas jim and serapis and to all of riu.


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## remi11 (Dec 25, 2010)

oh and a couple christmas shot for ya jim oh and guess what. im using foil. no burn spots or anything. if theres no heat there cant be burn spots. eh eh eh  happy smoking also i counted the branches/colas there should be and right now im counting 14!!! hell of ALOT better than 1 or 2


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Dec 25, 2010)

Serapis said:


> They are outta stock of almost all of Barney's Farm seeds......


 They still have Red Diesel and that is all that matters for me, I am definitely growing that again.


Merry X-Mas Everyone.


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## T.M.B (Dec 29, 2010)

Hello fellows I thought i would let you guys know I took cuttings of my plants and decided to pop a couple in my 2 other farms as well as fill my DIY clone bucket and they are doing great, what i did was make 2 v trenches out of foil for each one and put one side under a drip hole and the other side leads right to the stem. One other thing i do is lightly scrape the stem with a blade where i want my roots to grow,i also take my cuttings at a spot that i can cut a set of leafs off i have found in my years root like to grow well from those spots hope it can help you guys some time happy new year to you all.


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## Serapis (Dec 29, 2010)

remi11 said:


> ya i got mine from attitute. and my girl went trrhough a TWO DAY power outage. now bubble from the pump no light NOTHING and shes doing good. i was afraid shed go hermie but no godd as she could be. oh and merry christmas jim and serapis and to all of riu.


Merry Christmas to you too!!! I apologize for the late reply, I never got email notices of the activity in the thread... grrr 



jimbizzzale67123 said:


> They still have Red Diesel and that is all that matters for me, I am definitely growing that again.
> 
> Merry X-Mas Everyone.


What traits did you like about Red Diesel? Hope you Xmas was great!!



T.M.B said:


> Hello fellows I thought i would let you guys know I took cuttings of my plants and decided to pop a couple in my 2 other farms as well as fill my DIY clone bucket and they are doing great, what i did was make 2 v trenches out of foil for each one and put one side under a drip hole and the other side leads right to the stem. One other thing i do is lightly scrape the stem with a blade where i want my roots to grow,i also take my cuttings at a spot that i can cut a set of leafs off i have found in my years root like to grow well from those spots hope it can help you guys some time happy new year to you all.


That sounds awesome. Are you saying that you don't use any rapid rooters or plugs to start your cuttings? Are you stiking the cutting diretly into the hydroton? If you could do a pic or two, that would be priceless... Do you use a dome of any kind?


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## Serapis (Dec 29, 2010)

Slef serving post here, but I got my tent back from a flower cycle and I started my Bubblelicious scrog grow. link in my sig. You guys are free to make comments in it, even TMB  Muho Gusto Muey Loveo


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## T.M.B (Dec 29, 2010)

lol thats funny Serapis, I bought my wife a nice cam for christmas and told her i wanted to post pics of my set up that i am very proud of and she freaked, she made me promise not to have any pics from our house going out on the web i can kinda understand her point. Even though i am totally legal as far as state goes,but any how i do my cutting just like i said i have 100% success with my method no powders or gels. I will tell you those cuttings placed right in the farms never even lost color, i dont clip my leaves or nothing like that either just lightly scrape my stems and what i think is most important is take cuttings at a spot that you can remove a set of leaves.Sorry about no pics if you want i can try to describe better.


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## Serapis (Dec 29, 2010)

I might just give it a try, I like the idea, for sure. I've been thinking about pinching or topping a lower branch and then cutting it once it recovered, in 48 hours or so. I think I can get a two to 4 tip cutting to root in a farm then. Do you do an early foliage feeding?


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## T.M.B (Dec 29, 2010)

no i dont spray,just do the standard 45 degree cut lightly scrape and i make my 45 about 1/4 below the set of leaves i shave off. The 2 trenches you will make out of foil will supply a steady supply of oxygenated water running down the stem,i have already removed mine now that i have established root growth good luck.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 2, 2011)

Update: Day 44 of Flower.

Its a New Year and she is going nuts, I cant believe how much she is filling in, cant wait for these last couple of weeks to be over and done with its been a journey and I cant wait to ride the cole train. I have had a slight P defecicency for a bit now, I am so afraid to up the PPM's as I am so close to being finished and she isnt showing bad signs of defeciencey, also My Ph was always hanging around 6.0 since then I try and keep it at 5.7. My next feeding I will maybe do 1650 ppm and use that until I am done.

Now how do you guys flush your plants at the end, I have heard you need to flush for a couple of weeks but I have some florakleen can I use the nutes until the last 4 or 5 days as long as I flush with a little florakllen added to the water for the last 4 or 5 days before harvest? 

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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 2, 2011)

Serapis, I grew Red Diesel my last grow it was a free seed I got from ordering on 4/20 fuckin love attitude. Anyways the plant was easy to feed and she never ever gave me trouble I gre her in soil along with Sharks breath and two PPP. The two PPP's had some crazy problems with multiple deficiency I thought it was due to pH problems they were pretty much worthless and I got rid of them.

The sharks breath was alright it stayed way too bushy and never was able to get a lot of light, remember back them I just tied plants down a bit never used a SCROG method. 

The Red Diesel was my prize winner she grew monster buds for being in soil, and she was a covered in THC, the smoke was incredible such a potent strain and tasted amazing. My friends have been requesting it and still talk about it too this day and they miss smoking on the red diesel.

I have too admit up until now, red diesel is definitely on my top 3 all time best buds I have ever smoked maybe even number 1. If you haven't grown it you should at least order one from the pick and mix section I guarantee fat buds, potent buds, and a easy too feed plant.


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## Serapis (Jan 2, 2011)

I'll have to consider that. My next strain, already ordered, is Tangerine Dream. I'm getting two UFO Pravada Kush seeds with that. I have enough to cover me this year. I'll keep Red in mind for the next order. I have two water farms and will gladly mix em up.


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## Arsehole (Jan 3, 2011)

Looking good. Just chopped one of my WW's yesterday.

I started flushing a week and a half before cutting (I'm also doing DWC) They probably would have been fine with 4 or 5 days though.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 3, 2011)

Serapis said:


> I'll have to consider that. My next strain, already ordered, is Tangerine Dream. I'm getting two UFO Pravada Kush seeds with that. I have enough to cover me this year. I'll keep Red in mind for the next order. I have two water farms and will gladly mix em up.


 U are lucky I just ordered today and all they had was those Kannanabia seeds for free I probably wont even grow them just give them to my friends.


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## Serapis (Jan 3, 2011)

Check out my grow when ya get a chance. I'm similar to yours, link in my sig. I haven't started flower yet, just starting the screen now.


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## Megalith (Jan 5, 2011)

hey dude,
Very nice! Great lookin bud. happy new year!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 6, 2011)

Update: Day 49 of flower, just two weeks left.

She has been just bulking up and getting ready for the two week sprint to the finish line. I am very happy since I could have had like 12 more bud sites and I could have had them all completely level increasing my yield dramatically, but next time I will make sure it is perfect. I think I am just going to flush for the last 5 days with florakleen, it sucks I have to chop everything I would have liked to chop the top and let the lower buds fill in for another week and a half oh well.

The first pic is of some crazy looking moss I found while hiking in the woods yesterday.


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## upthearsenal (Jan 6, 2011)

Hey man, I've been quietly watching and things are looking great! She's really putting on the weight.. awesome job so far man.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 6, 2011)

upthearsenal said:


> Hey man, I've been quietly watching and things are looking great! She's really putting on the weight.. awesome job so far man.


 I think its my pep talks, I literally stand over her yelling at her like a pissed off coach, I dont care how good she does its never good enough for me. Little does she know I am extremely proud at this point and will be satisfied with anything, but I cant let her know so I just give her pep talks like its the stanleycup finals.

I know its just the co2 she likes but I think she is listening.


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## Serapis (Jan 7, 2011)

Bumpage.... Lets talk dry and cure plans for these loaded grows. This will be my largest harvest. I am going to write and post about drying and curing this grow, so instead of just being a grow thread, it'll be a complete guide, from start to finish.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 7, 2011)

I am going to chop in one week and 6 days and I will be hanging them all inside of the tent and just run my exhaust that is hooked up to my carbon scrubber. I dont know how many jars I am going to need I dont want to pack the jars too tight dealing with this much bud Mold could be a prob.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 9, 2011)

Update: Day 52 Flower.

The buds are continually getting larger and larger, the calyxes are fattening up and the crystals are pouring out. The trics are about 70% cloudy and 30% clear I am going to go for a week and four more days no matter what I have too go out of town for four days and I know she wont make it four days with two gallons of water she drinks a gallon a day now. I have a feeling she will be done by then but I always like to get the most out of my grows next time I will be able to go till I please, I should be getting a pretty nice harvest off of this behemoth. 


Sorry some of the pics are a bit blurry.

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## Serapis (Jan 9, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Update: Day 52 Flower.
> 
> The buds are continually getting larger and larger, the calyxes are fattening up and the crystals are pouring out. The trics are about 70% cloudy and 30% clear I am going to go for a week and four more days no matter what I have too go out of town for four days and I know she wont make it four days with two gallons of water she drinks a gallon a day now. I have a feeling she will be done by then but I always like to get the most out of my grows next time I will be able to go till I please, I should be getting a pretty nice harvest off of this behemoth.


I was thinking about what I'm going to do when it comes time to chop, as this is my first hydro grow. When I grow in soil, I know not to water within 5 days of a chop. The last thing I want is "wet" bud. With hydro, we always have water....

I'm going to let the plant drain the res dry. Then I'll kill the lights and let the plants sit in darkness for 48 hours, maybe 72, depending on humidity and bud wetness. My goal is to chop the buds when they have lost water and are producing resin heavily in a last ditch effort to attract pollen. The bud will require less drying time that way and I can begin the cure sooner. 

You might be just fine to kill the lights and let them set while you are gone, if you needed to. It kinda sounds like your timing is where you want it anyway, I'm just rambling on after medicating.


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## growalater (Jan 9, 2011)

Looking sexy man. I had a grow once where I hung the plant upside down for one day. Didn't notice how dry our weather was and the buds turned to ash in a day. Now I harvest right away and put in jars. So be careful. Luck enough it was mersh weed I was just practicing with. Your buds look legit.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 9, 2011)

Serapis said:


> I was thinking about what I'm going to do when it comes time to chop, as this is my first hydro grow. When I grow in soil, I know not to water within 5 days of a chop. The last thing I want is "wet" bud. With hydro, we always have water....
> 
> I'm going to let the plant drain the res dry. Then I'll kill the lights and let the plants sit in darkness for 48 hours, maybe 72, depending on humidity and bud wetness. My goal is to chop the buds when they have lost water and are producing resin heavily in a last ditch effort to attract pollen. The bud will require less drying time that way and I can begin the cure sooner.
> 
> You might be just fine to kill the lights and let them set while you are gone, if you needed to. It kinda sounds like your timing is where you want it anyway, I'm just rambling on after medicating.



You know that was my other plan, because I could just fill the res with 2gal of fresh clean water and when it runs out it runs out, I am sure she wont drink much in complete darkness for a few days.

But, I didn't want to have all of my fans running while I am gone, I would be able to leave most of them on and I shouldn't have any mold problems. I am just terrified of coming home to a mess of mold or something like that. But I guess once she runs out of water the humidity in the cab would have to slowely drop as she is not able to prespire as much water(Dont really know if thats true).

I am sure it would increase my yield a tiny tiny bit but make them frosty as hell.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 9, 2011)

So I was looking at her more, and the buds aren't too close together, and what do you guys think about cutting away some of the fan leaves right before I go out of town, like maybe 15-20% of the fan leaves just in areas where they are bunching up a bit. It shouldn't affect the plant too negatively, isn't the whole point of the darkness at the end to kinda of fuck with the plant and stress it out a bit making it really desperate to get pollinated. Maybe butting the leaves before that will help stress her out a bunch and cause her to get even more dank, I dont know I dont think it would have negative effects i mean I was going o cut the whole thing down anyways.


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## upthearsenal (Jan 9, 2011)

The trichs degrade when the sun is up, or the lights are on for us indoor growers, so when you induce complete darkness there is uninterrupted trich production. As far as taking off any leaves, the jury is still out I think it's just dependent on the system that is being run. Try it out, it might work out wonderfully for you. 

If a plant is stressed to the point of self-pollination it'll go herm, idk if it would actually produce more resin, because the pistils are the ones that are receptive to the pollen.


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## Serapis (Jan 9, 2011)

I think I am going to make my ladies thirst in darkness before I decapitate em...


As for removing fan leaves, I have already removed anything that will not grow up to the screen. I only left the smaller upper fan leaves that are near the screen surface and are getting light. The plants have reacted very favorably, noticeably growing even more branching.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 9, 2011)

Yea I have everything below the screen gone, and I just want to avoid mold when I am gone but I guess really everything is kind of out of my hands, I cant get into the middle of the growth cause its thicker than a jungle in there, so if mold is gonna grow I assume it would have already grown. 

I think I will remove most of leaves before I turn the lights off for those last 4 days it cant hurt them.


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## Serapis (Jan 9, 2011)

I would just leave the leaves up near the top, but yeah, clean that center out, as best ya can so the air can flow through. The dry reservoirs and the air exchange in tent should be enough to avoid any mold issues. Go ahead and open up a tent vent or two as well, if you can darken your room. My room is near pitch black in middle of day thanks to some awesome shades.

I can't wait to see your harvest!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 9, 2011)

I also noticed at the grocery store they have these things that help remove moisture I might buy a couple of them and throw them in there before I go out of town.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 13, 2011)

Update: week 8 of Flower.



HELP IDENTIFY THIS PROBLEM: View attachment 1379414View attachment 1379417View attachment 1379419View attachment 1379420View attachment 1379421

I just noticed that the very tippy top leaves on just 3 colas are having the leaves turn straight yellow. They are pretty close tot he light but a lot of the tops are close and they aren't exhibiting the same traits. The calaxes on the tops are also yellow just on the tips and there is a clusterfuck of white pistils. I dont know if this is just nitrogen deficiency because they are in the 8th week of flower or if they are too hot. they dont have that brown burnt look that heat stress seems to leave behind so i am skeptical of that, but I was just concerned I am sure it is nothing I will be harvesting in a week and a half anyways.

Great news I dont have to go out of town so I can cut them when they are ready. Unfortunately I clipped a small bud like a half of a gram to sample and there is good news and bad news.

Good news the shit is dank as hell and I fast dried it. 

Bad news I found one seed  I picked a few bananas during the grow off, they showed up pretty late into flowering and there were only a few that I noticed but I guess I missed one. There is just too many buds to keep track of and I cant even get too the back part of the tent. I read here and on other forums that people often had this strain herm on them. Its a shame I ordered one more seed so i could clone it I really hope that one doesn't herm. maybe Ill let my buddy grow that one , I dont think he has encountered a herm yet its about time.

Luckily after I found the seed I did a extreme search and I dont notice any of the calaxes swelling up with seeds so hopefully it was just a small pollination or isolated. Either way the shit is dank and there is alot of it. The top buds definitly didn't get pollinated I kept track of them(Fingers crossed)


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## upthearsenal (Jan 13, 2011)

Looks like light bleaching. It's definitely not anything to do with nutrients, neither a deficiency or a toxicity.

If you ever have a problem with stray pollen just spray down your garden, the walls, ceiling and such, as water neutralizes it.


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## smokin1 (Jan 13, 2011)

Dam dude this is a hell of a grow, cant wait to see what you end up with.


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## Serapis (Jan 13, 2011)

I'm pretty sure I mentioned that problem a week or so ago. I noticed all of the leaf tips turning upwards. New growth coming up white is a deficciency in nutrients, most likely an immobile element such as Iron. The leaf tips turning up reminded me of a Magnesium issue or heat. Your almost there, no sense in doing anything drastic. How long since the last full res change out? I'm only planing on two myself, one right before flowering, and one about two weeks out from harvest, that I'll quit refilling with one week to go.


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## T.M.B (Jan 13, 2011)

Thats funny you mention res changes because my pe is drinking the farm dry in one day even if i fill it an inch past the white line. I about freaked out the other morning when i opened my door to see no water in the tube then i flipped up the foil to see no drips. My other farm can make it through the day but its close as well, I am pretty sure the root system is definately filled my res. For my next grow i am doing 2 pe's and I am going to get that larger res to add on i will probably get a couple more farms as well,and Jim i wouldnt sweat it at this point your buds look nice i am day 18 of 12/12 today and its pretty nice seeing them get bigger everyday.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 13, 2011)

Yea she drinks a gallon a day so i do about two res changes a week, I am running around 1700-1800 ppm so there shouldn't be a problem, she is a beast though. Those leaf edges have been like that the whole grow its funny, I also noticed in other pictures of coletrain on the internet that edges kinda spiked. I did have a P and possibily a K defeciencey throughtout the grow a very light one, I guess I could have been feeding her more. It is hard to asses what she wants because the PPM is always going to rise dramatically because so much water is used all the time. I would think if the PPM was going down she would want more food but its practically impossible to track this in a wasterfarm. I have another coletrain seeds got all my seeds yesterday from attitude Headband, ColeTrain, Pinapple Express, Pinapple Chunk, and Red Diesel. Fuckin love attitude except for the fact that one of my freebees is a autoflower even though I didn't order a single autoflower strain you think they would notice that and switch them out and vice versa.

I am not going to worry about that problem it could be light bleaching could be a nute problem all I know is its gonna be one hell of a sticky night trimming this bitch.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 13, 2011)

upthearsenal said:


> Looks like light bleaching. It's definitely not anything to do with nutrients, neither a deficiency or a toxicity.
> 
> If you ever have a problem with stray pollen just spray down your garden, the walls, ceiling and such, as water neutralizes it.


 Great tip I just read too use a little bleach witht he water I am going to make sure I wash that tent down good. I tried to catch all the pollen sacs but that damn coletrain I should have known she would do it, when you find 10 other people on the internet saying a strain hermed its never a good thing.

But listen to me complain how spoiled am I, the coletrain was a free seed and look what she has done for me, I am pretty impressed by her genetics if I could just find a pheno with non herme tendency's.


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## T.M.B (Jan 13, 2011)

That sounds like a nice batch of seeds I was so impressed how easy the pe was to grow compared to the sharksbreath i already have two clones started in my other farms. I have some tasty ones on deck as well SLH,WW WR,Trainwreck,church,KK,AMS and a blueberry gum all fem I have two reg seeds as well lemon skunk and sour cream but only growing 2 at a time i will stick with the fems. After my next round of pe iwill probably get a couple mango clones from my bro it seems pretty fricken tasty. So about your dilema all those choices whats next?


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## Serapis (Jan 13, 2011)

Speaking of freebies, I just starting germing a freebie Reserva Privada Kandy Kush.... Anyone here do one before?

I would love to grow mango.... smoked some not too long ago and it was the best.


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## upthearsenal (Jan 13, 2011)

The reason I say it's not a deficiency is because I read on Al B.'s most recent thread that any decent hydro nutrient will have everything a plant needs, and something that looks like a deficiency is some other fuck up... and to me, that makes perfect sense.


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## Serapis (Jan 13, 2011)

upthearsenal said:


> The reason I say it's not a deficiency is because I read on Al B.'s most recent thread that any decent hydro nutrient will have everything a plant needs, and something that looks like a deficiency is some other fuck up... and to me, that makes perfect sense.


And you may be right, however, you aren't considering that we are asking a single plant to support multiple new growth tips, and that plant could easily deplete a specific nutrient while allowing others to build up, meaning fewer ppm's available for new nutrient. The problem compounds until you change out reservoirs. In the case of a Waterfarm, it is too easy to consider daily waterings as equaling a change out. Just because a single formula has everything a plant needs in it, doesn't mean we are giving the plant everything it needs. It looks like a deficciency to me. I don't know what fuck up would cause new growth to be light in color, or white for that matter, but I'm willing to learn something new. I'd love to see what a foliar feeding of N would do


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## upthearsenal (Jan 13, 2011)

Okay, I see what you're saying. I don't know how high of a ppm this plant can take, but it seems like it's good. An N def. will show up on older leafs, and any kind of N def at this point is good considering where he is in flowering. Idk why anyone would foliar feed at eight weeks for an N def, plus the potentiality of mold but okay.. 

Although, if it does happen to be a deficiency it'd be interesting to see what causes calyxes to turn yellow/white along with the leafs.


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## inbudwetrust (Jan 14, 2011)

Great Journal bro


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 14, 2011)

It could be a couple of problems I think this plant is a pretty heavy feeder I just wasn't willing to take a chance at burning the roots. I will grow coletrain again so next time I will push the nutes a bit faster.


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## Serapis (Jan 14, 2011)

upthearsenal said:


> Okay, I see what you're saying. I don't know how high of a ppm this plant can take, but it seems like it's good. An N def. will show up on older leafs, and any kind of N def at this point is good considering where he is in flowering. Idk why anyone would foliar feed at eight weeks for an N def, plus the potentiality of mold but okay..
> 
> Although, if it does happen to be a deficiency it'd be interesting to see what causes calyxes to turn yellow/white along with the leafs.


I wasn't actually suggesting foliar feeding Areseneo, that was to make a point that this is indeed from a deficciency. http://www.amsterdammarijuanaseedbank.com/Growguides/troubleshootingsolutions/marijuana-health-problems.html#mn

There is an outside source. ANY discoloration of leaves and new growth is caused by a nutrient problem. In fact, foliar feeding with a complete fert is indeed called for with yellowing new growth or tops as a fix for the problem. I'm getting the feeling you think I'm in this tug of war or back and forth with you over his leaf problems. I've provided an outside source that seems to go along with what I'm saying. Are you able to provide any reasonable explanation or source about what is causing the problem and how to fix it? I still think it is an Fe or Mn problem.


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## upthearsenal (Jan 14, 2011)

Areseneo? Come on man no need for petty insults... 

I don't see anywhere in your little link that discusses calyxes turning yellow. Are you just overlooking that? It's quite clear in the pics that it's more than the leaf. So until you find me something that details what deficiency manifests itself on the calyxes don;t act like a dick, because until that last post I thought we having a simple discussion. So maybe you thought we were having a "tug of war", but it's not at all how I'm going about this, I'm not trying to win... What if it is just simple albinism?
There's more possibilities than deficiencies.

Either way, hypothetically, let's go with Fe and Mn deficiencies:
*Iron deficiency: 
- Pronounced interveinal chlorosis similar to that caused by magnesium deficiency but on the younger leaves. 
-Leaves exhibit chlorosis (yellowing) of the leaves mainly between the veins, starting with the lower and middle leaves.*
*Fe is unavailable to plants when the pH of the water or soil is too high. If deficient, lower the pH to about 6.5 (for rockwool, about 5.7), and check that you're not adding too much P, which can lock up Fe. Use iron that's chelated for maximum availability. Read your fertilizer's ingredients - chelated iron might read something like "iron EDTA". To much Fe without adding enough P can cause a P-deficiency. 

**Manganese Deficiency: 
Interveinal chlorosis of younger leaves, necrotic lesions and leaf shredding are typical symptom of this deficiency. High levels can cause uneven distribution of chlorophyll resulting in blotchy appearance (necrosis). Restricted growth and failure to mature normally can also result. 
-Mn gets locked out when the pH is too high, and when there's too much iron. Use chelated Mn. 

*here's a chart as well: http://www.weedfarmer.com/cannabis/tables_guide.php

I can kind of see why you think it's one of those deficiencies... 

Quick Breakdown:
It could be a Fe def. if his pH is off, or there is too much P which will will cause a lock-out.
If it's an Mn def. it's could be due to a high pH, or too much Iron.

So according to "any reasonable explanation or source about what is causing the problem", fix your pH, and make sure there isn't too much P to cause a lock out.

Hopefully, Serapis, you realize that just because you disagree with someone you don't have to call them names.


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## Serapis (Jan 14, 2011)

I wasn't calling you names, lol, you have an avatar of him and you have his name in your screen name, it seemed appropriate... I'm not sure where the defensive feelings are coming from on that one. 

And yes there very well could be other explanations, but up until a minute ago, you hadn't proffered any, you were just speculating.  I merely wanted you to offer us something in the way of a plausible explanation if it wasn't a nutrient issue, and now you have, albeit briefly, albinoism.


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## upthearsenal (Jan 14, 2011)

Okay haha, that's kinda funny, but surely if I had him in my avatar I'd get the joke .

Anyways, Jim, I'd say if it were a nutrient deficiency, you should maybe look at your notes and check when the problem started, and if there were any changes in your regime. It might be something to look out for in the future. Either way, it looks like she's put on some serious weight, and now those nugs just need to ripen. Btw how long were you planning on taking her?


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## Serapis (Jan 14, 2011)

It sucks to have anything go wrong in a grow, especially this far in. I think it will only show on that one top.... I had that issue as well, two grows ago. Mine showed up with about 3 weeks to go and I was terrified it was some bad omen. The top quit developing, and never regained color. At the time, I wrote it off as a fluke. Now that it has happened again and jogged my memory of the event, I wonder if it isn't something more common that we can prevent? I'm sure I have a pic of it somewhere, I'll have to look for it.

Jim, is your plant pushing up your screen? I think mine is. It almost looks like I need to deflate it. I think next time I should weigh it down in the center? I could also run a bungee down the middle to add support there, but I think a strong plant will still move it. My oldest plant has over 30 new growth tips on it and we haven't even flipped lights yet. 

Also, after some more research and reading, I'm going to change my earlier advice about just giving the plants straight water in the end days.... By doing so, we lock out nutrients that are used to break down sugars and chlorophyl, etc. We need to make sure we are feeding the molecular processes, but maybe not as much. I'm going to just start backing off my nutrients in the end and maybe stop at 500 ppm? I'm also hearing that we should unplug the air pump for the last 2 days and let the plant drown to start a fermentation process?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 14, 2011)

Hmmmmm fermentation process, sounds smelly. Can you talk more about what this will do, I am not going out of town anymore so I can harvest whenever I want to now, I think I am going to chop the tops in a week and a half or so maybe more Ill let the trics tell me when they are done. And then I will drop the light and let the buds fill in nicely for a couple more weeks.

I am going to try and take some good pics of all the different leaf problems I have as soon as my light goes off a little after midnight.

I just have too many ideas and it is so fuckin hard to actually accurately identify the exact problem but this is why I spend all day on the internet.

Ohh yea I came across this site and its money.

[video]http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688[/video]


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 15, 2011)

So here are some pics, its only affecting 3 buds out of all 43 so its pretty isolated. the plant seems to be exhibiting multiple signs of deficiency I was cautions and I cant complain, I just wish it wasn't all yellow and white and looking so stunted at the tips. Although I thought about it and I will probably only lose like 2grams at the most from the stunted tips if it is light bleaching or multiple deficiency causing trouble so no worries. I probably should have bumped the nutes up a couple of weeks ago I just didn't have the balls. I am pretty sure I will get a good harvest, what a start to the new year.

Sorry for the crazy zoom.

View attachment 1382427View attachment 1382428View attachment 1382429View attachment 1382430View attachment 1382431View attachment 1382432View attachment 1382433View attachment 1382434View attachment 1382435View attachment 1382436View attachment 1382437


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## T.M.B (Jan 15, 2011)

Glad to hear its only a few effected that is very strange isnt it,they do look tasty no doubt good job.


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## Serapis (Jan 15, 2011)

I'm going to worry about nailing the regular dry and cure process before I learn about fermentation. It's an advanced technique that we sometimes stumble upon, but it flirts with mold if I read correctly. However the result is better cured bud. I just got in 14 hygrometers and a dozen half gallon Ball mason jars. One jar that I thought was in cure actually had 71% moisture in it. Now with the hygrometer, I know to burp until it reads about 65%, then I cap again and watch it slowly go back up. This wicking of the internal moisture is fun... ;p


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 15, 2011)

How much did you pay for the hygrometers, it would be nice too know if u are curing correctly or not.


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## Serapis (Jan 15, 2011)

I got them for abut $6 each. I ordered all of the same kind. 2 of them seem way off, the rest are all within 1 mark of each other, if not dead on.


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Jan 16, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> So here are some pics, its only affecting 3 buds out of all 43 so its pretty isolated. the plant seems to be exhibiting multiple signs of deficiency I was cautions and I cant complain, I just wish it wasn't all yellow and white and looking so stunted at the tips. Although I thought about it and I will probably only lose like 2grams at the most from the stunted tips if it is light bleaching or multiple deficiency causing trouble so no worries. I probably should have bumped the nutes up a couple of weeks ago I just didn't have the balls. I am pretty sure I will get a good harvest, what a start to the new year.
> 
> Sorry for the crazy zoom.
> 
> View attachment 1382427View attachment 1382428View attachment 1382429View attachment 1382430View attachment 1382431View attachment 1382432View attachment 1382433View attachment 1382434View attachment 1382435View attachment 1382436View attachment 1382437


Jimbizzzale-100% positive Light burn... Ive seen that many times back the light up some if posible.. but note that even after backing the light up the leaves will not turn back green.. upping your nutrient level could also make it worse putting more salts in the leaves will make it easyier to burn.. But other then the burnt tips on them few looking good..


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 16, 2011)

No can do on the light it sucks, I already cut some slits in the top of the tent mounted my light to the ceiling and raised it all the way I am even stretching the top of the tent up to get the most room. I definitely let them get too tall, I dont know if it is nute burn though it looks like it as serapis pointed out I have a bit of a Mg deficiency and I think thats why some of the tips are a bit burnt looking. its hard to get good pics of the leaves but I can definitely see it and I was reading jorges marijuana bible the most recent edition and it definitely seems to be Mg deficiency. I also had P deficiency only on my lower leaves below the screen it never moved up to the other leaves. I dont know if I should have been going higher with the PPM's or not?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 16, 2011)

I thought it was light bleaching because its only on a few buds that are right around the bubl ohh well as said befoe i wont lose that much weight because its only on 3 buds and just the tips.


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Jan 16, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I thought it was light bleaching because its only on a few buds that are right around the bubl ohh well as said befoe i wont lose that much weight because its only on 3 buds and just the tips.


Its defiantly light bleaching. If was a deficiency you will see it on all the bud sites tips not just 2 or 3 closer to the light defintly not mg deficiency problem as I recall you using Nova Bloom? there is plenty of Mg in Nova bloom. But I agree don't worry about it if its only 3 or 4 tips.. the light being closer is helping the other bud sites more then it will help 2 or 3 sites..


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 16, 2011)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> Its defintly light bleaching. If was a defincacy you will see it on all the bud sites tips not just 2 or 3 closer to the light defintly not mg deficancy problem as I recall you using Nova Bloom? there is plenty of Mg in Nova bloom. But I agree dont worry about it if its only 3 or 4 tips.. the light beingcloser is helping the other bud sites more then it will help 2 or 3 sites..


I will try and get some closer pics a lot of the leaves on the larger colas are light green on the edges, burnt looking on the tips, and have speckled brown spots around the tips, it has been going on for a few weeks now slowley getting worse, I need to take some pictures of a leafe that I can cut off or something that damn light makes it impossible to get good pics. But the smaller bud sites are fine they have no burnt tips its just weird, I know there is a lot of Mg in Nova Bloom but I think the plant was so huge it was using a lot of it and maybe just needed a bit more. I didn't really go past 1800ppm the whole grow maybe the bitch wanted more I will try next time avoiding these problems I will definitely not let it get so tall i vegged way too long.


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Jan 16, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I will try and get some closer pics a lot of the leaves on the larger colas are light green on the edges, burnt looking on the tips, and have speckled brown spots around the tips, it has been going on for a few weeks now slowley getting worse, I need to take some pictures of a leafe that I can cut off or something that damn light makes it impossible to get good pics. But the smaller bud sites are fine they have no burnt tips its just weird, I know there is a lot of Mg in Nova Bloom but I think the plant was so huge it was using a lot of it and maybe just needed a bit more. I didn't really go past 1800ppm the whole grow maybe the bitch wanted more I will try next time avoiding these problems I will definitely not let it get so tall i vegged way too long.


lol see now you know why my vege time was so short.. plants just never stop growing in waterfarms


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## Serapis (Jan 16, 2011)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> lol see now you know why my vege time was so short.. plants just never stop growing in waterfarms


I'll probably have the same issue. I should have went 12/12 at least a week ago...


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Jan 16, 2011)

Serapis said:


> I'll probably have the same issue. I should have went 12/12 at least a week ago...


I noticed that too Serapis.. But trial and error are the best ways to learn.. Ive stretched the vege out a few times and had to do some serious Triming Im not talking a prune here and there Im talking like get the fucking hedge trimmers cause this shit is about to be all up in the light ! .. just keep tucking and weaving much as posible cause its going to stretch allot in a waterfarm.. Ill tell you what I grew a auto flowering Deisel lowryder once that was suposed to be 12-18" tall .. In my waterfarm that bitch grew 4.5 foot and yeilded 12 ounces no bs..


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## Serapis (Jan 16, 2011)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> I noticed that too Serapis.. But trial and error are the best ways to learn.. Ive stretched the vege out a few times and had to do some serious Triming Im not talking a prune here and there Im talking like get the fucking hedge trimmers cause this shit is about to be all up in the light ! .. just keep tucking and weaving much as posible cause its going to stretch allot in a waterfarm.. Ill tell you what I grew a auto flowering Deisel lowryder once that was suposed to be 12-18" tall .. In my waterfarm that bitch grew 4.5 foot and yeilded 12 ounces no bs..


Damn... I know this strain pretty well though, I think I'll be OK. I plan on tucking and working the scrog for at least another two weeks. I'm working the long stems out to the edges and the branchouts are filling the middles and in betweens. I'm afraid the right side of the tent is going to be explosive. Stay tned ;p


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## Serapis (Jan 16, 2011)

I'd like to introduce everyone to my new shadow. It's previous name was Japanesefreak and it was fond of trolling these and other forums. Today he finally wore out his welcome and he received numerous time outs that ended up equaling a ban of some time. He has decided to join us with a newly generated presence, that his screen name makes all too obvious, his purpose. Feel free to ignore him. I'm thinking his posts may get removed.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 16, 2011)

Serapis said:


> I'd like to introduce everyone to my new shadow. It's previous name was Japanesefreak and it was fond of trolling these and other forums. Today he finally wore out his welcome and he received numerous time outs that ended up equaling a ban of some time. He has decided to join us with a newly generated presence, that his screen name makes all too obvious, his purpose. Feel free to ignore him. I'm thinking his posts may get removed.


 LOL I just feed the troll, and I am sure I will have him in here. Little does he know that i love to argue and i will go toe to toe with him if he wants, I am always locked into my computer anyways.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 16, 2011)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> lol see now you know why my vege time was so short.. plants just never stop growing in waterfarms


 I am going to use two buckets next time and veg for like 2.5 weeks.


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## Serapis (Jan 16, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I am going to use two buckets next time and veg for like 2.5 weeks.


There ya go. I have another bucket on the way for a total of three.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 16, 2011)

And two strains, next grow is Headband and Pineapple express.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 17, 2011)

I am going to update later but for now I need to vent......

So I just got back from my good friends neighbor who started growing last year because of me talking about it. So his last grow was OK he has a 4x4 ebb and flow table and 600 watt light he grew like 5 or six plant and got like 5 or 6 ounces it was ok for a first grow. I gave him a few tips here and there, he never ever listened  he was growing his plants in like 1/4 gallon pots maybe even smaller they were tiny pots, I tried to explain to him the importance of a root structure, he didn't give a fuck. So I basically stoped giveing him tips because either he really didnt care or he assumed I didnt know what I was talking about, and that his method of cutting off leaves causing nutrient deficiency and bad contain choices were superior. 

Well so after I stumbled across scottys thread I showed it too him, and he built a screen for this most recent grow. And he grew some seeds that were from my last grow they were seeds that were pollinated by a herm plant. I told him probably 50 times that the plants would herm, he kept saying I dont think they will. I was always so pissed and knew they would herm.

Well guess what they hermed, today I went over there to check on his grow and a bunch of his bud sites were filled with seeds. Ohh and guess what, only half of his screen got filled cause he killed so many plants. So I am like well just keep looking for bananas and pick them off, and I noticed that his buds were starting to get light burned. They look just like mine, and so I made him aware, and he says he just raised the light up and it was right on top of them(ohh yea he doesn't even exhaust the heat from his light just lets it hang around). So his digital thrmomater is sitting right on the screen right below the light, so I look at it first off the room felt pretty humid and thats what I was looking for I notice the thing says the room which is in a basement in a fairly humid part of the US is at 12% RH I go bro t hat thing is broken there is no way it is 12% RH my room which is in a basment too same area stays around 55-60%RH with a dehumidifier in the basement.

So he just refuses to agree it is broken and swears it is and I quote "Dry as FUCK" so I look at the temp and it says 95F on it I go bro that is way too hot, and now he starts to get pissed and is like dude its fine it was lower and the tips got burnt so I raised it up its fine. I say no its not it is probably too hot and ur hydrometer on it is broken u should get a new one. No I think its fine, he sticks his hand under and says I dont give a fuck what the thermometer says I use my hand. I go yea alot of people say that but they dont say disregard the temp, u are running a 6oow light with no exhaust hooked up 8in above the canopy its too hot. And then he just tells me to leave, I guess he got offended by my vast knowledge. I go bro I am not tryiong to be a dick or anything just trying to help, people lose crops all the time, he tells me as I was leaving if I knew so much why wasent I growing the way I am the whole time.

As I left I couldnt believe it is this person that stupid to believe people are just born with understandings of everything, and that I dont know anything because I just stumbled across scottys grow and decided to switch over from soil to hydro. I was dissapointed by his hardheadedness and now I am offended by the image he has created of me in his head.

He also said he didn't need any PPM meter I mean why wont this guy listen all I do is research growing methods and I have a very vast knowledge I am no expert but that is my goal. You dont just become a expert it takes years of research and years of hands on experimentation.

Whatever I'm not even going to go over their, I am just going to laugh when I grow more than him using less lighting, one plant, and less growing space. Also my grow buck cost me $65 and his table was $500 and he doesnt even use it correctly, man research sure can get u far. And when ever he started he said his goal was to get 5lbs of his setup, I said it was impossible even with the most perfect setup to get 5lbs off of a 600w I mean I am sure some master grower could find a way but it sure as hell wont be him. He doesn't think he needs fresh air, he thinks trimming leafs off is beneficial, and root space isnt important at all.

Ohh yea this guy is like twice my age. I know I know u would expect him to be immature and young but no.

My one buddy justsaid to let him learn from his mistakes that is the only way.


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## Serapis (Jan 17, 2011)

Quit giving him advice and spend time on your grow. Like you said, he'll become frustrated and maybe come seeking advice. The problem is, before growing, he saw your friendship as equal. You were two equal dudes that liked hanging out. When growing was introduced to him, you already knew more than him, that makes him feel inferior. Whenever you point out problems or broken equipment, he feels you are chastising him, correcting his errors, and it makes him feel inferior to you and possibly even misinterpreted as rejection.

Call and apologize, let him know you only looking out for him, but will keep quiet in the future unless asked. That's what i would do. And it isn't an admission of guilt on your part, it is simply being the bigger guy and making the child feel better.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 17, 2011)

Serapis said:


> Quit giving him advice and spend time on your grow. Like you said, he'll become frustrated and maybe come seeking advice. The problem is, before growing, he saw your friendship as equal. You were two equal dudes that liked hanging out. When growing was introduced to him, you already knew more than him, that makes him feel inferior. Whenever you point out problems or broken equipment, he feels you are chastising him, correcting his errors, and it makes him feel inferior to you and possibly even misinterpreted as rejection.
> 
> Call and apologize, let him know you only looking out for him, but will keep quiet in the future unless asked. That's what i would do. And it isn't an admission of guilt on your part, it is simply being the bigger guy and making the child feel better.


On I made it clear I wasn't putting him down, I already knew going in he was kinda stubborn. I am not really good friends with him, I already apologized and I guess I was apologizing for making his knowledge of growing expand. IMO that is never ever anything to apologize for, I was pretty calm until he said he doesn't care what a thermometer says and that his hand is a thermometer, that was just too ignorant to ignore. Every time I am over I usually dont say anything, because he has so many problems it would take hours. His leaves are always miss-colored he always has many different deficiencies at once. I usually just tell my friend to tell him and I dont think my friend does I already learned not to point out too much. But I felt the temp problem was easy to understand and he had too agree, boy was I wrong.

I will just let him fail, and when he wants advise my response will be I learned everything I know from the internet Google it bro.

And I cant even count how many times I said I am just trying to help you out.


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## Serapis (Jan 17, 2011)

And there it is....  This guy is obviously beyond any help.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 17, 2011)

Serapis said:


> And there it is....  This guy is obviously beyond any help.


 It really is a shame, because its not him I am tryong to help. I dont give two shits about this guy, its really my passonite love for marijuana and the old if you are going to do something you might as well do it right.

When I cook food, I dont make a hot-pocket I will make jerk chicken with wild rice.

or look up another recipe, cause I have the internet and two eyes and my brain works unlike that guy(no longer refereed to as my friend, really wasn't ever a friend and sure as hell isn't now)


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 17, 2011)

The good news is I have another friend that is starting and he cant get enough of me talking about marijuana. He actually understands the importance of infinitely expanding knowledge.


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## WakethBaketh (Jan 18, 2011)

Just read through your entire journal and your grow looks great and boy did I learn a lot!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 18, 2011)

WakethBaketh said:


> Just read through your entire journal and your grow looks great and boy did I learn a lot!


 That's why I did it, good to hear. When I am finished harvesting some time in the next couple of weeks, I will be reflecting back going over all the things I learned and what I will do differently.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 18, 2011)

Update: Day 62 flower, the buds are swelling more and more. The calyxes are even more plump and the hairs are slowly turning red. The trics are still cloudy and a bit of clear so I am going to wait a bit and make sure they amber up just a bit.

That bud that is falling over is getting chopped tomorrow, I keep hitting it with my hand and knocking it around on accident pour little thing is begging to get smoked thats the one in the closeup too. I am also dead tired of the nasty shitty foul tasting buds that have been going around.

View attachment 1390346View attachment 1390347View attachment 1390348View attachment 1390349View attachment 1390350View attachment 1390351View attachment 1390352


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## The Freebird (Jan 18, 2011)

Holy shit... subbed! cant wait to see that harvest


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## Serapis (Jan 19, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Update: Day 62 flower, the buds are swelling more and more. The calyxes are even more plump and the hairs are slowly turning red. The trics are still cloudy and a bit of clear so I am going to wait a bit and make sure they amber up just a bit.
> 
> That bud that is falling over is getting chopped tomorrow, I keep hitting it with my hand and knocking it around on accident pour little thing is begging to get smoked thats the one in the closeup too. I am also dead tired of the nasty shitty foul tasting buds that have been going around.
> 
> View attachment 1390346View attachment 1390347View attachment 1390348View attachment 1390349View attachment 1390350View attachment 1390351View attachment 1390352


I left the images in the reply because it is on the following page.

Nice work Dude!!! Those buds look awesome! That is some large sugar leaves. They really stretch out.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 19, 2011)

I have to say she is a pretty strain with some monster buds, she stinks in a good way and is just coated in trics. The one problem with this strain is the fact that I had it herm and many many other complain of the same thing. Its not bad because if it did get seeded just a bit it surely didn't affect the THC output so I cant complain. I just wish I could clone and actually get a phenotype that wont herm on me.


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## Serapis (Jan 19, 2011)

Without having to go back and look, did you use reverse on the plant or just pick off bananas? I'm on my first scrog and the thought of a hermie worries me greatly, as I have yet to have one with my Nirvana Bubblelicious seeds. I constantly look for balls when I work the screen.


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## T.M.B (Jan 19, 2011)

Hey Jim i know you like to read so i figured i would let you know look up Heath Robinson without a doubt he is a guy to learn from. Let me know what you think.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 19, 2011)

Serapis said:


> Without having to go back and look, did you use reverse on the plant or just pick off bananas? I'm on my first scrog and the thought of a hermie worries me greatly, as I have yet to have one with my Nirvana Bubblelicious seeds. I constantly look for balls when I work the screen.


 I just picked off bananas the problem was I couldn't get too the back and could only get the ones on the front bud sites. It only hermed inside of the buds never on the actually nodes where the preflowers are. I had a PPP from nirvana hermie terribly by growing a huge ball sac on the node and it exploded without me noticing.

What is this reverse I have never heard of it, is it like a hormone that stops hermies I must know.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 19, 2011)

T.M.B said:


> Hey Jim i know you like to read so i figured i would let you know look up Heath Robinson without a doubt he is a guy to learn from. Let me know what you think.


 I goggled Heath Robinson and looked at the cartoonist and didn't think thats what u wanted me too look at than I found a heath Robinson on Roll it up and just came across his thread, I looked at the first 5 pictures my first thought. That dude is a mad scientist, and I am off to read his thread, hopefully its the heath u wanted me to check out.


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## Serapis (Jan 19, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I just picked off bananas the problem was I couldn't get too the back and could only get the ones on the front bud sites. It only hermed inside of the buds never on the actually nodes where the preflowers are. I had a PPP from nirvana hermie terribly by growing a huge ball sac on the node and it exploded without me noticing.
> 
> What is this reverse I have never heard of it, is it like a hormone that stops hermies I must know.


It must have been another thread... 

I have a bottle of Dutch Master Reverse and a bottle of Saturator (wetting agent) that I have on standby just in case. Anyone using Fem seeds should have some on standby. It can be used in two ways, to pretreat plants once at begining of flower and then 10 days in and you'll not get a hermie. It will not reverse a true male however. You can also treat after locating hermie spots, but the schedule is more aggressive then witht he spraying.

Google up Duth Master reverse


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## T.M.B (Jan 19, 2011)

Yes the guy on roll it up no doubt a guru in growing mj, if you read on a bit he gets into feeding and explains plenty. He falls under the less is more so adding stronger nutes will not help but hurt more salts build up and then wont allow the plants to take in the nutes needed no matter how high you bump the ppm,very interesting when you get to it I think you will enjoy,good read for all us new hydro guys.


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## Serapis (Jan 19, 2011)

T.M.B said:


> Yes the guy on roll it up no doubt a guru in growing mj, if you read on a bit he gets into feeding and explains plenty. He falls under the less is more so adding stronger nutes will not help but hurt more salts build up and then wont allow the plants to take in the nutes needed no matter how high you bump the ppm,very interesting when you get to it I think you will enjoy,good read for all us new hydro guys.


Sounds like good reference! I'll check it out.


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## T.M.B (Jan 19, 2011)

heaths flooded tube vertical page 54 explains his nute beliefs.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 19, 2011)

So I have read up on that dutch masters seems to work great, looks like u need the reverse and the penetrator in order for it too be completely effective. the shit seems to work I read over on gardeners cure that many people used the two with success.

the only problem is that u must use it early in flowering because it is a foliar spray, and my hermies showed up like 4 weeks in and now that I am 9 weeks in they are always pooping up I just keep picking bananas. 

Makes me want to just spend the 50 bucks for the two and use it on every grow, I am so sick of hermies that have nothing to due with me fucking up just hermied out genetics.


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## legallyflying (Jan 24, 2011)

Good genes should never herm. I heard you were waiting and waiting for them to finish up. I would suggest turning your lights back to 9 on 15 off. That should signal to them that it's time to knock the shit off and mature


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## Serapis (Jan 24, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Good genes should never herm. I heard you were waiting and waiting for them to finish up. I would suggest turning your lights back to 9 on 15 off. That should signal to them that it's time to knock the shit off and mature


WOW. I advocate that all the time. This is the first time I see someone else on RIU suggesting it as well. Bravo


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 24, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Good genes should never herm. I heard you were waiting and waiting for them to finish up. I would suggest turning your lights back to 9 on 15 off. That should signal to them that it's time to knock the shit off and mature


 You know what I was sitting their last night thinking about doing that I had read it somewhere I just want them to know its time. I am taking some time off of the lights right now.

I have read on the grass city forums that their coletrain hermed on them also a couple of people on RIU said the same. And then a different guy said he noticed a lot of the coletraines hermed whenever I research strains I never come across comments like that. I have another coletrain seed I dont know if I am going to grow it or not, I think I will be just going with one plant next time instead of the two i wanted too grow. I dont want to complicate things just go with that pineapple express.

So bad genetics, But look at those buds.


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## Serapis (Jan 24, 2011)

You heard about cutting some time off of the lights from moi......


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 24, 2011)

Update: Day 67 of Flower.

They are looking sweet, I cut a sample last Thursday been smoking on it the past couple days. Shit is dank really frostey I just need the trics to amber up i took three hours off of the light schedule so hopefully they recognize they need to hurry the fuck up its almost 10 weeks. These god damn sativa wannabees, shes good though still shooting out fresh pistils hopefully she is ready to go down by next Thursday I really dont feel like waiting 11 weeks I am only giving her water here on out she has had enough.


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## Serapis (Jan 24, 2011)

The amount of new growth on those buds is nothing short of awesome. If you have a lot of clear trich's and your buds are still wanting to produce, you could wait em out 

I agree, they look big and dense as it is. Do you have your next grow started yet? I have a tap root out of seed, 6 days later, tap still alive, but only grew like a 64th of an inch since a few days ago.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 24, 2011)

Serapis said:


> The amount of new growth on those buds is nothing short of awesome. If you have a lot of clear trich's and your buds are still wanting to produce, you could wait em out
> 
> I agree, they look big and dense as it is. Do you have your next grow started yet? I have a tap root out of seed, 6 days later, tap still alive, but only grew like a 64th of an inch since a few days ago.


 No, I am starting just the pineapple express alone at the end of this week. Yea that new growth makes me very happy, the leaves are getting a bit worse as the days go on but no worries they will be done soon they have too be. But I am excited to see so many new white hairs they just need to swell up fast.

Hopefully that light change will help them along. Thanks for the tip.


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## JimBro (Jan 25, 2011)

Why am I just now seeing your journal? Looks like I made it just in time for the payoff, though. Gonna go through this sucker from the start as soon as I get the chance. Very nice, Atheist! Don't lie, you dig the name. Just don't change your avatar picture because it really won't make sense then.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 25, 2011)

JimBro said:


> Why am I just now seeing your journal? Looks like I made it just in time for the payoff, though. Gonna go through this sucker from the start as soon as I get the chance. Very nice, Atheist! Don't lie, you dig the name. Just don't change your avatar picture because it really won't make sense then.


 Lol I dont mind, good to have you in here jimbro I love ur avatar pic I still laugh the guy just looks so goofy.


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## PakChild (Jan 26, 2011)

damn dude, those look sooooooooo good. what nutes were you using?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 26, 2011)

PakChild said:


> damn dude, those look sooooooooo good. what nutes were you using?


 Just Flora Nova Bloom, Earth Juice Microblast, and Earth juice catalyst


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 26, 2011)

Jimbro the strain is Reserva Privadas ColeTrain its really nice but it hermed on me and I read on this forum and other forums of people running into the same prob. I have another seed so I will grow again but use that reverse and penetrator stuff just as a precaution.


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## JimBro (Jan 26, 2011)

That's lame...other people are running into the same problem with ColeTrain or RP in general? I hope not the latter because I just popped some RP Sour Kush seeds. Legal mentioned the penetrator (my old nickname) and I've read a few posts on the reverse. I don't see how the reverse could hurt even if it doesn't work, so why not give it a shot.

Hermie or not, I'm secure enough in my masculinity to say them bitches look hot.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 26, 2011)

Yea I tore most of the bananas off. I had chopped a small bud from the way bottom a few weeks ago, it was all week in the stem was about to just fall off, but it dried up into a few one hits but there was one seed.

But these samples I took last Thursday I didn't find a single seed so must have just been at the bottom.

I have some RP Headband and I researched it alot and no one complained about it herming, really this coletrain is a aggressive plant there are so many new pistils and it is week 10 I think it just has some mutated genes maybe I just got a seed that had something wrong in the DNA I have one more but will probably get the reverse and penetrator just to make sure.

That reverse and penetrator is $50 IMO its worth it too use every time.


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## upthearsenal (Jan 26, 2011)

Hey man, penetrator is now saturator, I think if you get penetrator it'll be an old formula.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 26, 2011)

upthearsenal said:


> Hey man, penetrator is now saturator, I think if you get penetrator it'll be an old formula.


 So just reverse and saturator?


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## upthearsenal (Jan 26, 2011)

Yeah, and you can use the saturator with just about any other foliar application..


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## Serapis (Jan 26, 2011)

upthearsenal said:


> Yeah, and you can use the saturator with just about any other foliar application..


Absolutely. I think they market it to add up to 60% effectiveness to your foliar applications if I remember correctly.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 26, 2011)

Serapis said:


> Absolutely. I think they market it to add up to 60% effectiveness to your foliar applications if I remember correctly.


 I have never been too into foliar feeding any of you guys partake in this practice, and have you done research is there benefits to foliar feeding? I mean can I get even bigger buds? Wait do I need bigger buds? What the fuck am I saying of course I need bigger buds.


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## JimBro (Jan 26, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I have never been too into foliar feeding any of you guys partake in this practice, and have you done research is there benefits to foliar feeding?


 Wait, I thought that's what Saturator was basically - foliar feed?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 27, 2011)

JimBro said:


> Wait, I thought that's what Saturator was basically - foliar feed?


 You can foliar feed with any nutrients I have just never attempted it.


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## Serapis (Jan 27, 2011)

JimBro said:


> Wait, I thought that's what Saturator was basically - foliar feed?


Saturator is only a wetting agent that encourages the plant to take in what is being sprayed on it's leaves. Dutch Master claims that their formula is more effective than water and dish soap.



jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I have never been too into foliar feeding any of you guys partake in this practice, and have you done research is there benefits to foliar feeding? I mean can I get even bigger buds? Wait do I need bigger buds? What the fuck am I saying of course I need bigger buds.


I'm not going to say it will give you bigger buds, it will however, give you happy plants. I only foliar feed between waterings, and then, only if the plant needs it. If not, I'll usually just use PH water and a weak mix of Big Bloom. Foliar feeding can be key to correcting a deficiency issue as well. Several fixes for deficiencies are slow acting, such as top dressing lime on a plant to treat for a Mg problem. Instead, you can dissolve lime in PH'ed water and mist the plant, or use some Cal-Mag and foliar feed. With foliar feeding, you are bypassing the roots and giving the plant what it needs directly.

Just don't overdo it. You don't want a plant to stop or decrease it's root production because it finds that it get's plenty of nutrients from above. That plant will become useless when buds start growing and you have to stop foliar feeding. Then the plant won't have the roots to keep itself alive.


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## frogster (Jan 28, 2011)

Dammit Jim, lets chop these biotches.... looking delicious...


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 28, 2011)

frogster said:


> Dammit Jim, lets chop these biotches.... looking delicious...


 Your telling me, I thought I would have had jars of coletrain by now but one more week it is. I chopped a few branches that were hidden and not getting much bigger they should last a week or two. the stuff is dank i just want some amber trics and all those new calaxes need to swell up just a bit.


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## Serapis (Jan 28, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Your telling me, I thought I would have had jars of coletrain by now but one more week it is. I chopped a few branches that were hidden and not getting much bigger they should last a week or two. the stuff is dank i just want some amber trics and all those new calaxes need to swell up just a bit.


I used to be an amber trich kinda guy myself. Then I read the Mar 2011 High Times. There was a reference to a study done by a scientist on trichomes. He was able to determine that THC content was highest, when the resin in the trichomes was clear. I'm going to shoot for 50/50 myself this time around, 50% clear, 50% cloudy. Of course I'll watch the calyxes too. My last harvest was a bit early, which is why I suspect the high is intense and not couchy, but the calyxes were almost non-existent.

BTW, I bought some tomato an herb seeds yesterday. I'm going to start an outdoor garden and throw in some RIU herbs too... Everything will have to be in pots this year, but next year....


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 28, 2011)

Serapis said:


> I used to be an amber trich kinda guy myself. Then I read the Mar 2011 High Times. There was a reference to a study done by a scientist on trichomes. He was able to determine that THC content was highest, when the resin in the trichomes was clear. I'm going to shoot for 50/50 myself this time around, 50% clear, 50% cloudy. Of course I'll watch the calyxes too. My last harvest was a bit early, which is why I suspect the high is intense and not couchy, but the calyxes were almost non-existent.
> 
> BTW, I bought some tomato an herb seeds yesterday. I'm going to start an outdoor garden and throw in some RIU herbs too... Everything will have to be in pots this year, but next year....


 I am going to give her another look under the scope today by next Thursday the tops have got to go then ill leave the bottom buds to fill in for another week and a half.

I got another water farm today, I also picked up some flora-nectar its got pineapple on the cover I forgot what it is called but it should go well with Pineapple Express. I am going to start germing my PE tonight and start cleaning that fuckin Hydroton and let it soak over night. I will just be using florescent's until my tent is available again as soon as Coletrain wraps up.

It begins again so exciting I love Hydro fuck dirt unless ur growin outdoors.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 28, 2011)

The only reason I like the amber trics is because I always have way too much energy, ill go to bed at 3am and get up at 9am so i like some bud that makes me tired I have always got way too much energy.

I use to sleep from 12-12 in highschool, I guess its a good thing you can sleep all you want when your dead.


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## Serapis (Jan 28, 2011)

I just picked up 3 1.5 C.F. bags today of Organic Choice MG. Of course that is for my tomatoes.

I'm going to get one more waterfarm as well, that will give me 4.


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## frogster (Feb 7, 2011)

Chop,, chop CHOP????? Looking for update& pics!


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## remi11 (Feb 7, 2011)

yes yes please update us


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 7, 2011)

If you say so........


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 7, 2011)

Fuck..... I had everything ready too go I typed a ton of stuff up attached a bunch of pictures and clicked a link on accident lost it all, so annoying when that happenes I will post everything in a bit.

View attachment 1427588


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 7, 2011)

So I chopped her Saturday she took so long a few days over 11 weeks of flowering, but it was worth it I have some monster buds the biggest buds I have ever grown.

The smoke is great very smooth, a earthy more nutty flavor almost like coffee not a fruity flavor I prefer fruity taste but I just see her as being more sophisticated. the high is very sophisticated it isn't a intense narcotic high I can feel my face buzz and I always have a clear head but can drift away and really relax. I prefer strains that knock me out but this is a great strain if you dont like those crazy intense highs.

Things I will do differently, guide the main cola far away from the light immediately and bring up the smaller bud sights by the bulb. the inconsistency really affected my yield not that I can't complain its just you might as well max it out. I have some giant buds and then smaller buds it would have been nice to have had all monster buds.

I am going to make some hash, and I will be making some tincture because I have to get my tonsils out next month and wont be able to smoke for a couple of weeks. 

I have Pineapple express going right now, I am leaving that carpet of smaller buds under the light till next week just so they get a little direct light. The Pineapple express will be fine under the flours I have untill then she is still a little seedling.

Here are the pics I will update some closeups Thursday or so when they are completely dry i have some personal smoke but you would rather see the monsters close up.

View attachment 1429307
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View attachment 1429336
View attachment 1429337


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## bongmarley2009 (Feb 8, 2011)

Awesome grow Jim. It's nice to see people growing "Scotty" style with the use of a waterfarm + flora nova bloom. It really doesn't get any simpler than this. You just need a good water source if your tap ppm is high. Will you be posting the final weight?


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## Serapis (Feb 8, 2011)

bongmarley2009 said:


> Awesome grow Jim. It's nice to see people growing "Scotty" style with the use of a waterfarm + flora nova bloom. It really doesn't get any simpler than this. You just need a good water source if your tap ppm is high. Will you be posting the final weight?


My tap water is pissing me off. It is nearly 400 ppm out the faucet, so I have been spending about $15 a week on water.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 8, 2011)

Serapis said:


> My tap water is pissing me off. It is nearly 400 ppm out the faucet, so I have been spending about $15 a week on water.


 Yea mine is like 250 its pretty crappy I almost went through one of the large bottles of Acid. I have a water store down the road that sells it for not too bad I will be doing that this time around.

I will have a final weight in a few days, but then i will have to include that carpet of weed when it is done.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 9, 2011)

Its crappy that RIU is so random, I have seen journals growing with CFL's getting a quarter off of one plant get more responses than my journal. I thought it was a pretty good grow I updated quite often what gives?

I was just expecting more of a response, I definitely wont be taking the time next go around its just not even worth it I am just basically showing off my grow which isn't really why i did this.

Maybe I should have titled it something extreme I just dont get it.


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## bongmarley2009 (Feb 9, 2011)

@ Jim: I think you would have a lot more views if you had titled the thread "400w White Widow Waterfarm Grow" or any combination basically listing the light you are using, the strain, and in your case the waterfarm.

On a side note, I would absolutely fork out the $$$ for a RO system instead of buying water from the store. In the long run, I think it'll save you money. Plus I'm lazy at times so I don't wanna carry a huge 5 gallon container of water.


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## WakethBaketh (Feb 9, 2011)

Congrats on the harvest man and don't worry about it. I learned a lot from your journal so there are people who appreciate what you're doing . In all honesty I don't understand it either lol.


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## Serapis (Feb 9, 2011)

bongmarley2009 said:


> @ Jim: I think you would have a lot more views if you had titled the thread "400w White Widow Waterfarm Grow" or any combination basically listing the light you are using, the strain, and in your case the waterfarm.
> 
> On a side note, I would absolutely fork out the $$$ for a RO system instead of buying water from the store. In the long run, I think it'll save you money. Plus I'm lazy at times so I don't wanna carry a huge 5 gallon container of water.



I'm actually going to buy the RO housing units and get some brass hose fittings and rig up an RO system for my garden hose. This way I can attach a hose to my sink with a waterbed adapter and have clean RO water out the other end. Now I just need to think about a reservoir for water storage.... Got just the thing, Rubbermaid 18 gal drk blue roughneck.


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## Serapis (Feb 9, 2011)

I enjoyed the grow. I agree about subject lines, they should be very detailed so peeps can find grows they are interested in. I think everyone is over White widow ;p They have moved on to Kush


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## JimBro (Feb 9, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Its crappy that RIU is so random, I have seen journals growing with CFL's getting a quarter off of one plant get more responses than my journal. I thought it was a pretty good grow I updated quite often what gives?
> 
> I was just expecting more of a response, I definitely wont be taking the time next go around its just not even worth it I am just basically showing off my grow which isn't really why i did this.
> 
> Maybe I should have titled it something extreme I just dont get it.


First of all, when I saw your harvest, I hated you. Hate born of envy. I've worked through my issues and while I can't say I'm happy for you, I have reached a point where I can say congratulations on a great grow -- you bastard. 

Can't speak for everybody, but I read your journal and learned a lot from it. I don't comment much because I'm too new to really add anything worth reading...and lately have been extremely busy. Do what you got to do, but if you start another journal on that PE I'll sub - and steal more of your experiences! And I'd say you got some quality followers here. Who cares about all those other 12-year old douchebags floating around RIU!?

By the way, what were your reasons for the journal?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 9, 2011)

Serapis said:


> I enjoyed the grow. I agree about subject lines, they should be very detailed so peeps can find grows they are interested in. I think everyone is over White widow ;p They have moved on to Kush


I know it sucks it wasn't even White Widow, LOL.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 9, 2011)

JimBro said:


> First of all, when I saw your harvest, I hated you. Hate born of envy. I've worked through my issues and while I can't say I'm happy for you, I have reached a point where I can say congratulations on a great grow -- you bastard.
> 
> Can't speak for everybody, but I read your journal and learned a lot from it. I don't comment much because I'm too new to really add anything worth reading...and lately have been extremely busy. Do what you got to do, but if you start another journal on that PE I'll sub - and steal more of your experiences! And I'd say you got some quality followers here. Who cares about all those other 12-year old douchebags floating around RIU!?
> 
> By the way, what were your reasons for the journal?


In the beginning it was to learn this was my first go at Hydro and I was nervous. I really wanted everyone to comment and critique or add tips I just wanted to make sure nothing went wrong. I just had a few followers though they were awsome I guess really there just isnt that much too it.

But when CFL threads are always getting commented in it just boggles my mind.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 9, 2011)

I will start a thread for PE under a new title and more attractive name. I wont update like I did for this, I mean who are we kidding were all a bunch of pervs that just want BudPorn none of that weak ass veg crap.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 9, 2011)

How about this title for the PE thread, 1 400wBulb, 1 seed, 1 pound..... thats my goal and all I have confidence I will reach it if not 14.


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## Serapis (Feb 9, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> How about this title for the PE thread, 1 400wBulb, 1 seed, 1 pound..... thats my goal and all I have confidence I will reach it if not 14.


Make sure you link it up here my man... I'll be there...


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## upthearsenal (Feb 9, 2011)

This has been a good grow man, and I'm still interested in your final weight. 

I guess I missed the part of it being a different strain. Which strain did it turn out to be?


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## bongmarley2009 (Feb 9, 2011)

You don't have to post pictures as much, but I do like to see how people's plants look. How about pictures every 2-3 weeks? Personally, I like to see pictures of when the lights switch to 12/12 and then once the stretch is over. The screen filling up is exciting! Veg pics are good too.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 9, 2011)

It was Reserva Privada's ColeTrain. 

Final weight should be in a couple of days.


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## JimBro (Feb 9, 2011)

And then when are the samples mailed out? Just kidding RIU admins and the NSA.


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## JimBro (Feb 9, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> In the beginning it was to learn this was my first go at Hydro and I was nervous. I really wanted everyone to comment and critique or add tips I just wanted to make sure nothing went wrong. I just had a few followers though they were awsome I guess really there just isnt that much too it.


 Two things I might throw out there. Might have been people like me that don't know crap and are just trying to steal your ideas and learn from any fuck ups. I know I said two things, but have forgotten the second.



jimbizzzale67123 said:


> But when CFL threads are always getting commented in it just boggles my mind.





JimBro said:


> Who cares about all those other 12-year old douchebags floating around RIU!?


But, to be fair, I'm betting CFL is a lot more accessible to some growers, so more followers. I'm just throwing shit on the wall...any of it sticking?

And it's funny because I followed your sig here and never even looked at the title. White Widow. That's funny. Maybe people felt mislead and said piss on the Bizzle.And since we're talking about titles, I wonder if '1st Journal' turned some people off. Kinda like those fuckers on the street corner begging for change. I don't read their shit either. I wonder if that makes sense to anybody but me.

Aight, my man. You can have your thread back. Let me know where that journal is so I can get on it from the getgo. Audi 5.


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## Serapis (Feb 9, 2011)

Good point... many people hide grows from girl friends, parents, faculty, family, etc. They grow covertly in Mom's house with a lighting system that costs less than the damn seed they are growing...


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## Budluvin (Feb 10, 2011)

Hey Jim, i just wanted to show my suport for your grow and sad to hear you didnt het more followers. I am new to the site and only found your journal a couple of days ago but have enjoyed every page and BUD! I am starting my first hydroponic grow and like you i am a bit nervous... considering doing a journal myself.o:


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## remi11 (Feb 12, 2011)

man looks great jim. sorry i didnt post up as much as i had been i didnt have internet for awhile but im glad to see it worked out for you. and i completely agree on the "getting a more consistant bud size" i completely half assed this grow and it shows but as you said it was more for my learning which i did and shoot IM HAPPY and that really should be all that matters. but ya you got some MONSTROUS buds i didnt but you know what i did do... grew white white in a confined space using 1000w hps AND FOIL!!!! lol no heat no burns lol. all im saying is great journal GREAT knowledge to be learned from reading it. sorry if i go on im highhhhh lol oh ya what i meant to say to i harvested 2 days ago my really only big bud was the main one but like i said learnig expierience got some pics if your interested i think ima post a "Quick overview" thread in the appropriate category. be sure to shoot you the link and again GRAND stuff bro


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## remi11 (Feb 13, 2011)

here the link to mine if you ever get bored and wanna check out some pics https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/408307-1000w-hps-white-widow-waterfarm.html#post5301975


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 14, 2011)

Thanks for coming through, I have a total weight well its some what of a guesstamit 10 ounces +or- .5. I weighed everything I had already dried and it was 8.5 ounces I just trimmed all the bottom buds and I low balled a possible outcome of 1.5ounces from all those buds which seems to be correct if not maybe 2 ounces.

So all in all a fantastic grow I have pictures of the roots and everything I will upload later. The only thing that would have made it better is having all the buds level it is the most important thing in a SCROG grow.


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## JimBro (Feb 14, 2011)

Nice payoff there Bizzle...that should keep you happy until the next harvest...speaking of the next harvest, started a new journal yet?


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## Serapis (Feb 14, 2011)

Don't beat yourself up over the scrog... I have two plants going, busted my ass to keep it all even, well, one plant kept stretching, because she had fewer branches to support, so the entire left side of my scrog is about 4" taller than the right side. Most of the right side is even, but the ones directly under the light are taller for obvious reasons...



jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Thanks for coming through, I have a total weight well its some what of a guesstamit 10 ounces +or- .5. I weighed everything I had already dried and it was 8.5 ounces I just trimmed all the bottom buds and I low balled a possible outcome of 1.5ounces from all those buds which seems to be correct if not maybe 2 ounces.
> 
> So all in all a fantastic grow I have pictures of the roots and everything I will upload later. The only thing that would have made it better is having all the buds level it is the most important thing in a SCROG grow.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 14, 2011)

Yea my problem was I kept the top cola too close too the bulb so they just took over everything. I am going to guid the PE's main cola far from the bulb and bring smaller branches twords the bulb this should help.

But really I dont know why I am trying to complain I just got over a half pound off of one plant. In the past one plant would yield 1.5ounces at most so woohoo I did well.

I smoke this bowl for all the stoner's out there on RIU, this Bowl's for you.


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## Serapis (Feb 14, 2011)

You did very well and yes, the idea is to stretch out the main branches as far as you can from center, this allow the lower nodes in the center to receive light and when auxin is released, they'll branch as well, and you can use them to fill under the light.


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## zamzia (Feb 28, 2011)

So what size tent is that one please? Great grow and outcome from one plant!!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 28, 2011)

It was a 3x3x5.4 or so, but I cut the sides down a bit so it is really 2.5x2.5x5.4. Its one of the smaller Secret Jardins.


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## Serapis (Feb 28, 2011)

I was going to buy a smaller height Jardin for my mother and clones but damn they are more expensive than my 4x4x6.5 Jardin.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 1, 2011)

Ya I use to drop money like it was going out of style.


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## zamzia (Mar 9, 2011)

Thanks. I've got the DR60 (60cmx60cmx160cm) for my first run. If it goes ok I will upgrade to something a little larger.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 9, 2011)

You'll do great.


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## buddha113 (Mar 9, 2011)

hey jim earlier in this thread you said you may do another journal with RP sour kush, just wondering if you still had any plans on that?

great grow btw, loved following this thread


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## Flo Grow (Mar 10, 2011)

*Congrats on your harvest Jim !*
*Outstanding results for your 1st SCROG !!*
*+Rep*

*If you want something that will finish 3 to 4 weeks sooner, yield as much (more IMO) and just as potent, if not more, then buy some C99.*
*Check my thread.*
*I just harvest 9 ounces from one plant that I didn't SCROG in a HomeBox Small (32 x 32 x 63) with my 400w Hortilux.*
*I still prefer the SCROG method and will be doing it to the C99 and Northen Lights I have growing now.*
*It was my 1st time growing C99 too.*
*I grow in two 12gal Igloo Marine coolers using 10gal of R/O water and GH Flora Micro and Bloom (RezDawg's "The Recipe") with PBP Cal/Mag and Liq. Karma.*


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 11, 2011)

I ahve so many seeds right now, but I have seen that c99 before looks like some good stuff.


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## zamzia (Mar 11, 2011)

Shame no one has stock of those, and from what I can see, they haven't done so for a while!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 11, 2011)

The Cinderella 99 thats what c99 is right?


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## Dick Moser (Mar 14, 2011)

i dont understand....but thanks for the laughs  hit me up anytime.


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## Serapis (Mar 14, 2011)

What don't you understand?



Dick Moser said:


> i dont understand....but thanks for the laughs  hit me up anytime.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 14, 2011)

Serapis said:


> What don't you understand?


Hes a idiot, just ignore his dumb ass.


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## rick19011 (Apr 24, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Hes a idiot, just ignore his dumb ass.


Watch it or you will get banned, RIU does not tolerate that kind of behavior at all.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Apr 24, 2011)

rick19011 said:


> I should just worry about myself


Yea you really should.


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## rick19011 (Apr 25, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Yea you really should.


That's your second report, grow up.

kfanxbie


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Apr 27, 2011)

rick19011 said:


> That's your second report, grow up.
> 
> kfanxbie


Hey report this, $^%* *^% $#@@^*


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## dwight smokum (Oct 1, 2013)

great read.thanks a lot.


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