# new grow room 250w or 400w hps?



## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

hey guys heres my new grow room, wayy bigger than my old one. its 4ft 2inches tall x 3ft wide x 15 inches deep

i have two 4 inch tubes running in and out. and a squirrel cage fan blowing air out.

i was using a 70w hps for a while but i don't have it anymore so i need to buy one. 

i am either going to get the 250w or 400w from high tech garden supply

http://www.htgsupply.com/growlights.asp?categoryID=1&subcategoryID=155&typeID=55

but i can't decide if the 400 will be overkill.
what do you guys think? 

btw all the plants in there are female, the two ladys that are almost ready are 3 months 4 days old. i can't decide when to harvest, maybe a week or two? i've just started flushing


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## fried at 420 (Aug 4, 2009)

go with 250 for now just to see how it goes heat wise


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## fish601 (Aug 4, 2009)

250w will do great but you just built a new bigger grow room how long till you build an even bigger one  400w might be the way to go unless you are happy with the size you are at

also is that the best price you found?


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## Twils (Aug 4, 2009)

Hey bud I've got about the same size grow room as you do, Check out my journal! Go with the 400!


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## Heady Hitter (Aug 4, 2009)

Your going to probably have problems keeping temps down with the HID in such a small space. with 4ft of room allow 6in. or so for bulb and reflector, then the plant tops need to be atleast 12inches away from light. if you have 1 or 2 gallon pots 6 in tall your only giving yourself about 2 foot or less of grow room. looks like good results with those fluros. keep it simple


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

fish601 said:


> 250w will do great but you just built a new bigger grow room how long till you build an even bigger one  400w might be the way to go unless you are happy with the size you are at
> 
> also is that the best price you found?


exactly, thats why i want to go with the 400. but i am worried about heat.

yes have you found anything cheaper? i want to buy one light now, and not have to go buying another in a few months cuz i need more light


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## Megapot (Aug 4, 2009)

400 watt is probably going to be too much for that area. However when you buy the HPS you also need the ballast and if you go upto the 400 you'll probably have to rebuy everything. It's a toss up, get the 400 and worry about venting. Or get the 250 and if ever needing to upgrade paying the $$ for it...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

Megapot said:


> 400 watt is probably going to be too much for that area. However when you buy the HPS you also need the ballast and if you go upto the 400 you'll probably have to rebuy everything. It's a toss up, get the 400 and worry about venting. Or get the 250 and if ever needing to upgrade paying the $$ for it...



i'm leaning towards the 400 because i probably wont have the money to upgrade in the future


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

Twils said:


> Hey bud I've got about the same size grow room as you do, Check out my journal! Go with the 400!


looks good! yours is about the same size but your using 6" ducting and i have 4"
also you have room outside your grow room for fans, mine is a little more enclosed.


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## Megapot (Aug 4, 2009)

From what I've read you should be able to vent out that 400 watt, but it'll just be something you'll always have to keep your eye on. It's a shame you've only got 4 feet of height though. Easily a foot for the container/pots, a foot for light room/hood. Then you've only got room for a 2 ft plant. CFL's aren't that bad, and in a small area you can put them almost on top of the plants so that's probably the easiest/best for what I could see for pics. Maybe stick with the CFL until you've got a little bigger space?


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

2ft is plenty of room, i will be doing a lot of LST 

but maybe i better stick with the 250 because its so small....

ahhhh its so hard to decide


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## Crystal Intake (Aug 4, 2009)

if you have a cooltube go with the 400w if you dont go with the 250watt because rising heat will be an issue for sure.


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

Crystal Intake said:


> if you have a cooltube go with the 400w if you dont go with the 250watt because rising heat will be an issue for sure.


nope no cooltube, i was hoping the squirrel cage fan would do it, it sure does move alot of air


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> i'm leaning towards the 400 because i probably wont have the money to upgrade in the future



This is the smartest post I ave sen in a while...

Get a cooltube... and go with the 400...

You will thank yourself when harvest comes...

Proper ventilation is key...

But it can be done.. easily...

I used to run a 600 HPS in a homemade tent... 20"x36"x54"... no issues...

Upgrading is expensive and wasteful...

My two cents...


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

Just to re iterate my point...

The better buds in more quantity will more than make up for the difference in initial cost and electric bill...

Get a cooltube... My plants can touch the glass with a 600 inside....


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> This is the smartest post I ave sen in a while...
> 
> Get a cooltube... and go with the 400...
> 
> ...


thanks dude, i haven't been able to find a cool tube that is cheap and 4" inches. maybe i can make one? i don't have very much money thats why i'm buying the cheap lamp.

i would hate to have to buy another lamp in the future when i could buy like a grow tent or something instead, or another 400w


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## fish601 (Aug 4, 2009)

buy the 400w and if to hot build bigger grow room lol


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

fish601 said:


> buy the 400w and if to hot build bigger grow room lol


haha thats what i would love to do, but i dont really have the room lol


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

I like HTG... especially their Digis.. I have 2x 600W digi from them...

This one is $231.95 WITH the cool tube...

http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=48943











This one is $189.95 WITH the cool tube...

http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=47929







And you can always go cheapo and DIY...

$54.95 for the ballast and socket... 

http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=45693








you would need to get the cooltube separate... $85.95








You do not need a 4" cooltube...

Just use 6" duct with adapters at the fan...

A 6" tube is really what you need...

Remember what you said about updating...

Everytime you buy something.. make sure it is the last you buy..

Buy the right shit the first time and be done...

Al the stuff I used in my tent is in full use today in my op many times bigger...

I hate waste.. and crap laying around...

Do it right ... do it once... and enjoy...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I like HTG... especially their Digis.. I have 2x 600W digi from them...
> 
> This one is $231.95 WITH the cool tube...
> 
> ...


hey good idea man thanks,
i think i might get the 400w with the cooltube for 189. thats a really good deal
i didn't even think of using a reducer. so i can go from 4 to 6 inches then back to 4 no problem?

what i would probably do is have the squirrel cage sucking air from inside the grow room, blowing it into the cooltube then out the exhaust. then i would have a small fan on the intake blowing fresh air into the room

i know what you mean about waste, i hate having good equipment laying around, especially with the economy like this.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

How serious are you about doing this right?


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

i'm 100 percent serious about doing it right, i hate jerry rigging shit.
i just don't have much $$$


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

Well...

There are 2 school of thoughts on "budget grows"

1 says that you should use the cheapest materials available...

I believe that is the option for the kids...


...


My take on a budget grow is that the grower is tight for money...

None of us do this for the growing... we do it for the buds...

So I believe in having patience and building the "perfect set-up" the very first time...

The "perfect set-up" will cost a lot more that the "cheapest set-up"..

But it will put out MORE, BETTER buds...

A "budget grower" should be concerned with one thing... and one thing only...

HOW MANY WATTS (DOLLAR$) WILL YOU BURN FOR EACH GRAM OF SMOKE-ABLE BUD???

We call that Grams per Watt... or G/W...

A "cheapest grow" may do good and achieve 0.2~0.4 G/W... IF all goes well...

A "perfect set-up" is capable of giving you 1 g/w... the very first time around...

So while while it is not the cheapest to put together... the "perfect set-up" will prove more economical EVERY TIME... 

At EVERY HARVEST the op will pay for the equipment over and over and over again...

With a 400w HPS.. pretty much ANY smoker will never have to buy bud again...

And still have some for the edibles... the hash... the closest friends... etc...

But as you can see...

It will require lots of time .. and some pretty big decisions...


and I should warn you.... I can be very .. short sometimes.... I deal with some pretty fucked up pain .. so some days I get real cranky.. but I never mean any disrespect...

I just get VERY to the point... and I do not send flowers with it...

If you can deal with my weirdness... You can have a kick ass grow in less time than you imagine...


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

This is the tent I built...

600 HPS...

20"x36"x54"...

Cost me ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS.. and I had change for an ice cream...

but you already have some things...

Don't get scared...

It sounds like a big number...

But you do not have to spend it all at once...

Check...

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/122687-gypsys-600-watt-home-made.html


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

Am I moving too fast???

Are you familiar with ebb/flow?


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

Something else to keep in mind when deciding HOW you will grow...

This is a PROVEN recipe... anyone can duplicate it... in any scale... from 4 to 400 thousand plants...

Check...

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/6592-get-harvest-every-2-weeks.html


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

Here is a DIY Ebb/Flow from the GrowFAQ 

https://www.rollitup.org/view.php?pg=faq&cmd=article&id=466

*How do I make an ebb & flow
hydroponic system?*





*The goal: To demonstrate the construction of an Ebb & Flow hydroponic system.*

The system being constructed is small, however the design is the same as larger systems.






 



 
*Parts list...*


 Restaurant bus tub, 15 1/2" x 20 1/2" x 4 1/2", flood tray.

 Restaurant bus tub, 15 1/2" x 20 1/2" x 7", reservoir.

 Reservoir lid, 15 3/4" x 22".

 Overflow fitting.

 Fill/drain fitting.

 Water pump, 70 gph.

 Tubing, 1/2" ID.

 Aquarium air pump.

 Air stones.

 Green air line.

Notice, in the pictures above, the one inch holes, in the flood tray for the overflow, and fill/drain fittings, also, the two inch holes in the lid, for the fittings to pass through.




 
A view of the plumbed flood tray with lid. See how it fits over the fittings.​ 



 
This is a view of the reservoir with lid, and plumbed flood tray.




 
Here, it's all assembled. The water and air pumps are not shown. The power cord, and air lines fit between, the reservoir and lid. A small notch may need to be added, to avoid pinching the air lines, and to help the flood tray sit level.




 
Assembled with six 5 1/2" square pots. Notice the easy access to both fittings. The fill/drain fitting has a connector for a 1/2" hose, under the screen. Remove the screen, connect the hose, turn the pump on, and pump out the nutrient solution. Makes reservoir change outs very easy.




 
Another view of the system.




 
*Note: Choosing a container...*

Not all containers are made equal. Some are very sturdy, while others are not. Using a weak container will only lead to failure and a flood. Choose heavy duty containers. Also, some containers will need a *center support* to keep them level under the weight of the nutrient solution.

*Note: About sizes...*

The reservoir should be large enough, to hold two, to three times the volume of the flood tray or table. The pump should be sized to flood the tray in 5 min. or less.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

OK... now I KNOW I am moving too fast...

Hit me back when you catch up...

and feel free to hit up journal... link is in the sig... pictures start on page 9... lots of them...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

well i am definitely looking for the perfect setup, and i think i have a lot of what i need. i want to get as much as possible out of the space i have. i think the 400w with the cool tube will be perfect. hopefully. i have lots of time to care for them, they're right next to my bed
i am doing this mostly for a medical grow, but i lovee smoking it as well  
sweet tent, i bet you got some nice ass bud outa there. i want a tent but i have no where to put it, this is all i have right now.
heh i'm very familear with the ebb and flow, i want to get my light situation 100% before i start messing with anything other than soil.


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

heh i'm trying to smoke a bowl and type at the same time..


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

i also have like 5 clones in my veg room ( aka my old grow room ) which are going to hopefully take root in the next few days. hopefully

also i have another female outside in a big pot. i am hoping to turn that one into a tree


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> heh i'm trying to smoke a bowl and type at the same time..





Well.. I can assure you.. and can actually point you to many growers here that made the switch to hydro with ZERO regrets...

I know nothing of soil...

But I can tell you that if you follow a recipe... it's like baking a cake...

Just like baking a cake...

We grow scientifically...

No guessing... everything by the numbers...

Guaranteed success the very first time... IF YOU FOLLOW THE RECIPE...

There are dozens of us Fuctheads here on RIU...

It's easy... and it is the most economical way to grow..

You will ring every bit of efficiency out of your set up...

I have seen as high as 1.8 g/w on my op... once.. but I did it..


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> i also have like 5 clones in my veg room ( aka my old grow room ) which are going to hopefully take root in the next few days. hopefully
> 
> also i have another female outside in a big pot. i am hoping to turn that one into a tree


Trees require space and light.. lots.. here are my 3 "Sativica" trees... under 1200W...


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

oh wait...

you meant outdoors didn;t you...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

i'm planning on switching to hydro as soon as my lights are set up and working for a little while. i have a lot of the things i need for it but am still going to have to order net pots and a growing medium. also nutes. i've only been using shultz 10-15-10 and bone meal. which seems to be working fine


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

haha thats crazy. i can't wait to have the room to grow big


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## westchef (Aug 4, 2009)

Hey my friend I'm new here..so what do you do run air at the cooltube 24-7...I've been looking at this light and was wondering how many plants it coulc cover..

Let's say I do auto-flowering from seeds..

Maybe 8, or so


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

I keep myself and a few other families supplied with 4x 600HPS...

We're all medical users too...

...

What is the ambient temperature of thye area where the grow is going to be...?

Is it a closet?

Have you planned ventilation?

This is how an op should be set up .. IDEALLY... there a few "approved" variations.. but this is the best...

 ​


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## westchef (Aug 4, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I like HTG... especially their Digis.. I have 2x 600W digi from them...
> 
> This one is $231.95 WITH the cool tube...
> 
> ...


 

permalink
 Hey my friend I'm new here..so what do you do run air at the cooltube 24-7...I've been looking at this light and was wondering how many plants it coulc cover..

Let's say I do auto-flowering from seeds..

Maybe 8, or so


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

it sometimes gets up in the 90s but rarely. summers almost over.
yes its a closet.
have you looked at the pictures? i have two 4 inch tubes running in and out of the closet

i have no need for a carbon filter, i'm not worried about the smell


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

westchef said:


> Hey my friend I'm new here..so what do you do run air at the cooltube 24-7...I've been looking at this light and was wondering how many plants it coulc cover..
> 
> Let's say I do auto-flowering from seeds..
> 
> Maybe 8, or so



The answer to your question is not straight... it depends on the size of the plant...

You just saw 3 plants under 1200 watts...

Now I am going to show you 48 plants per 600 watts... in my SOG...

If you pruned for single cola you could do the same with the Autos... but 36 under a 400w... in a 3x3'ish tray...


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> it sometimes gets up in the 90s but rarely. summers almost over.
> yes its a closet.
> have you looked at the pictures? i have two 4 inch tubes running in and out of the closet
> 
> i have no need for a carbon filter, i'm not worried about the smell



I did see the pictures... but they did not help me "paint the big picture"...

No worries though...

For best results, I would isolate the light... with it's own fan, as well as intake/exhaust...

Keeping the air separate gives you the best heat fighting and temperature control capabilities...

But you can leave on end open in the op... and double that as your exhaust... 

You just need to MAKE SURE the fan runs with the light... thus killing some of your temp control... but it requires only one fan...

I would leave the intake passive... and use every last cfm to get rid of the heat.. exhausting it...

...

As for 90F... you will have problems with that...

You can expect a properly ventilated, ENCLOSED grow-op to be 5F warmer than the ambient temperature of the room where the tent/closet is in...

I hope summer IS almost over... or you will have troubles..

What temperatures are your plants seeing right now?


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I did see the pictures... but they did not help me "paint the big picture"...
> 
> No worries though...
> 
> ...


i will take some more tomorrow maybe but heres a better picture of what i want to do.

i just got an air conditioner set up so it wont be that hot anymore, but those ladys that are about ready have seen some hot days. 

right now with just the cfls its about 76


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

Ditch the intake fan and use it as another exhaust...

What kind of fans do you have anyways? ans how many? cfm?type?

How many CFLs you are using and holding 76F...

Chances are you will be able to hold the same temps with a cooltube and a strong exhaust...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

well i have a squirrel cage fan, idk the cfm but it spins at 3020 rpm. and i have two 4 inch desktop fans. 
i'm trying to avoid drilling anymore holes so i want to keep the one intake and one exhaust

right now 4 30w and 2 42w bulbs


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

I'd say you will see similar temps with the cooltube...

But I'd really like to know how many cfm it is before I can tell you for sure...

and what are desktop fans... just the small circulating fans?

and you do not need an intake fan... air WILL get sucked in... save the power if you do not need the extra exhaust...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

i have no idea how many cfm's it doesn't say it on the label. it came from a big wood stove. 
yes they are small circulating fans.
i will probably just use them to circulate air around the room


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

well.. unfortunately we will only know if it works when you hook it all up...

I'd say you need a bare bone minimum of 100cfm... 150 being ideal...

But ultimately... the temperature is the number we need to look at...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 4, 2009)

yes, the total comes to $213 with shipping. so soon i will order that up and we'll see what happens!


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

Best of luck mate.. keep me posted...

If things start happening and I don't show up.. feel free to send me PM...

I subscribe to a LOT of threads...


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## fever (Aug 5, 2009)

why not just do the 250 and some flo? You already have some flo's and that's working good. Not going to have money later....? I'm sure one or two of your "peeps" would thro you a couple of bucks for some bud at harvest. Get a piggy bank put that away and if you still want to upgrade you have some dollars stached.Oh I would get a digital blast so if you do upgrade later to the 400 you can use the 250 MH functions for veg.


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 5, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Best of luck mate.. keep me posted...
> 
> If things start happening and I don't show up.. feel free to send me PM...
> 
> I subscribe to a LOT of threads...


thanks, i'm sure you will be hearing from me very soon



fever said:


> why not just do the 250 and some flo? You already have some flo's and that's working good. Not going to have money later....? I'm sure one or two of your "peeps" would thro you a couple of bucks for some bud at harvest. Get a piggy bank put that away and if you still want to upgrade you have some dollars stached.Oh I would get a digital blast so if you do upgrade later to the 400 you can use the 250 MH functions for veg.


how about the 400 and some cfls?
i need to keep all the bud i get at harvest. selling some would leave me with very little bud.
what i have been doing is taking a little bit out of each paycheck and setting it aside. i have $100 so far and i need $110 more. hopefully by early next week i will be ready to order.
i would love a digital ballast but way to much $$$


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## GypsyBush (Aug 5, 2009)

Digis are nice...

I like the fact that I can run HPS or MH... 110v or 220V... and HTG's run super cool...

But in all reality, a magnetic ballast will last much longer... even if it gets really hot...

If you HAVE to keep the ballast inside of the op... you might want to consider digi... 

but if you can put the ballast out of the grow space somewhere, heat is not really a prob...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 5, 2009)

i would rather have a magnetic ballast. i could buy a cool tube with the money i saved not buying a digi. plus if it lasts longer and is cheaper....

i will be keeping my ballast outside my grow room so no problem there


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## Crystal Intake (Aug 5, 2009)

if it was me i'd go with guana soil, biobizz bloom, topmax, bioheaven and use the 400 watt with a 6 inch cooltube and one 125 mm fan. buildit on the one ducting...example : carbon filter-ducting-suckingFanblowinginto-cooltube-ducting-outake(out the top of room if possible) you'll need two small clip in or sway desk fans. with the 400 watt and a cooltube you may still have some heat isues due to the small width so u may need to go 250W as i have tried and tested a very similiar space with 400w and cooltube and temps where 30-32. ideally u be wanting 1metresquared with the above setup that way u will keep 20-25 temps alltime. in winter u will be able to fire in a 600w and may need to use heater during winter nights also. i think u be besy going with soil to start with as hydro can get expensive and if u dont know what your doing can have chain reaction failures.

i have two ancient magnetic ballast at mo but i will be moving to digi next time round to save little bit of energy/money/buyinglamps and i can throw away my MH conversion bulb LOL plus plus plus the digi has a super switch that u can boost 30 percent more energy out of a hps which i would activate on 3rd week of flowering


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 5, 2009)

Crystal Intake said:


> if it was me i'd go with guana soil, biobizz bloom, topmax, bioheaven and use the 400 watt with a 6 inch cooltube and one 125 mm fan. buildit on the one ducting...example : carbon filter-ducting-suckingFanblowinginto-cooltube-ducting-outake(out the top of room if possible) you'll need two small clip in or sway desk fans. with the 400 watt and a cooltube you may still have some heat isues due to the small width so u may need to go 250W as i have tried and tested a very similiar space with 400w and cooltube and temps where 30-32. ideally u be wanting 1metresquared with the above setup that way u will keep 20-25 temps alltime. in winter u will be able to fire in a 600w and may need to use heater during winter nights also. i think u be besy going with soil to start with as hydro can get expensive and if u dont know what your doing can have chain reaction failures.
> 
> i have two ancient magnetic ballast at mo but i will be moving to digi next time round to save little bit of energy/money/buyinglamps and i can throw away my MH conversion bulb LOL plus plus plus the digi has a super switch that u can boost 30 percent more energy out of a hps which i would activate on 3rd week of flowering


 dude you must be on the other side of the lake, your confusing me with the metric measurements! 

so i'm buying a 400w system with a 6" cooltube from HTG supply
i have two 4" desktop fans which i will be using to push fresh air in and circulate air around the grow room.

i just put an A/C in so the temps are staying real low.
i wont have any money to put in a 600w in the winter, although it would be nice...
the 400w will be plenty though. plus a bunch of 30w and 42w cfls

i have to use soil anyways because i can't afford a hydro set up right now
but as soon as i get the money i'm switching over, maybe i will win the lottery or something?
i definitely have the knowledge, i am certain. 

a digi would be nice, but again, i don't have the money...
i won't need a MH conversion bulb because i am using cfls as well. i want to stick with just the HPS for now


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## Crystal Intake (Aug 6, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> dude you must be on the other side of the lake, your confusing me with the metric measurements!
> 
> so i'm buying a 400w system with a 6" cooltube from HTG supply
> i have two 4" desktop fans which i will be using to push fresh air in and circulate air around the grow room.
> ...


sounds good man, you can't go wrong with soil. make sure its a good brand tho with all the goodies init that way you can feed the plants water ONLY rite up till 2ndor 3rd week of flower then u can fire in some bloom feed, bloom boost & plant stimulator.

the bigger the pots the better 4-5 galon b4 u flower or shortly after. topping the plants worked wonders for me also aslong as you leave them to veg for atleast 2 weeks after an you'll get alot more heads.

good luck, hope to hear soon.


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 8, 2009)

i just found this.

http://www.hidhut.com/catalog/400w-hps-digital-ballast-bulb-and-glass-tube-reflector-combo-p-408.html

what do you guys think? its about the same price as the one from HTG supply


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## GypsyBush (Aug 8, 2009)

The only reason I would suggest HTG over that one are..

I have dealt with HTG...

Other than that... it's pretty much your choice...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 8, 2009)

yeah i'm probably going to go with the htg supply setup because there is so much good feedback, plus they are really close.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 8, 2009)

I highly recommend you get all the info online and PLACE YOUR ORDER ON THE PHONE..!!!!

I can't stress ORDERING ON THE PHONE enough...

Every time I ordered from them ON THE PHONE, I was given an even better deal than online...

PLUS.. if you have a problem... you can deal with the EXACT PERSON THAT SERVED YOU BEFORE...

but that's just my experience...


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## GypsyBush (Aug 8, 2009)

and if they are close to you.. saving on S&H is a good thing...


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## jrp677 (Aug 8, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> The only reason I would suggest HTG over that one are..
> 
> I have dealt with HTG...
> 
> Other than that... it's pretty much your choice...


 
I'm running a 400 watt hps in a 6" cooltube. My cabinet is located in the garage and so far this summer I have been battling heat issues daily. I have to run the light at night due to the high daytime temps. My flower room dimensions are 3' x 2.5'. The flower room is Cooled by 2 x 4 axial intake fans, 2 x mini fans for circulation, 1 x 465 CFM exhaust fan w/ carbon sock. I expect that I will have an amazing yield come harvest time but it hasn't come without the constant burden of heat buildup. So I guess my point is, I have a shit load of air circulation but still have heat issues. Here's a link to my newly posted first grow if your interested.  OUT! https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/220054-first-grow-400-watt-hps.html


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 8, 2009)

jrp677 said:


> I'm running a 400 watt hps in a 6" cooltube....


May I ask what the ambient temperature in the garage is?

I mean.. what temperature is the air in your intake?

A properly ventilated tent/cab usually runs about 5F higher that the room it sits in... and MOST of that is radiant heat...


----------



## jrp677 (Aug 8, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> May I ask what the ambient temperature in the garage is?
> 
> I mean.. what temperature is the air in your intake?
> 
> A properly ventilated tent/cab usually runs about 5F higher that the room it sits in... and MOST of that is radiant heat...


It runs almost exactly 10 degrees hotter than ambient when the light is on. It runs about 5 degrees cooler when the light is off. To answer your question the garage ranges from about 65-80 degrees between 10pm and 10am which is when the light is on. Do you have any suggestions of how I could ventilate it better?


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 8, 2009)

yeah i like to order over the phone, i hate putting in the credit card through the internet. even though i'm close, shipping is still like 20 bucks.

man i hope i dont have the same heat issues as you do jrp, i have way less ventilation than you do. is your ballast outside your grow room?


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 8, 2009)

yes you will have an amazing yield!! 

what brand cooltube and hps system are you using?
digital?


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 8, 2009)

I have no idea how your set up is ventilated...

But if you are exchanging the air properly, it should be closer to ambient...

What makes it hotter inside during lights off??? it should be the same as outside...

And I am sure you know.... but even if you only have 1 CFL... if your intake is at 80F.. it will never be cool in there...

I had a 600 HPS in a 20"x36"x54" tent inside of my room with no issues... I just kept the room at 70F...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 8, 2009)

here's some pics of my girls


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 8, 2009)

Hellz yeah bro...!!! 

You are going to see SUCH A HUGE DIFFERENCE....

I am excited for you...

are you gonna do the first 400w HPS grow from clones or seeds?


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 8, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Hellz yeah bro...!!!
> 
> You are going to see SUCH A HUGE DIFFERENCE....
> 
> ...


thanks man! 

i'm reallyyy excited.

i will have mostly clones, and a couple plants from seed.

the 3 plants in the pictures i just posted are all from bagseed


----------



## jrp677 (Aug 8, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I have no idea how your set up is ventilated...
> 
> But if you are exchanging the air properly, it should be closer to ambient...
> 
> ...


 
I wish I had the option to keep the cabinet inside the house but I don't. The ballast is inside the cabinet but in a different section than the flower room. I use Sun System digital ballast and cooltube. I think you misread, the cabinet is 5 degrees COOLER than the garage when the light is off. I'm running 2 105 CFM axial fans for intake and a 465 CFM squirrel cage fan for exhaust but yes I know the cabinet can only be as cool as the air being circulated so I'm just going to have to tough it out through the rest of the summer. With that being said though I still think the cabinet would heat up 10 degrees hotter than ambient temp even if I kept it in a room that was only 50 degrees. How can I get it down 5 degrees?


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 8, 2009)

ok... my bad... I must have mis-read... 

you say you have a cooltube... it should have it's own fan... and the air for the light should never mix with the op's air...

then I would use every last cfm you have available for exhaust... believe me, if you exhaust it, more air WILL COME IN...

Here this is the best way I know to describe how to vent an op, ANY OP, properly...

Is this how you have it?

as a note... the intake blower is optional on 99% of the cases...

 ​


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 8, 2009)

and I know that you have them and that you should use them... but AXIAL fans have no place in your op... other than the circulating fans...

Get a 4" centrifugal fan FOR YOU LIGHT... set it up like the drawing shows... and you will see a drop in temps...


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## jrp677 (Aug 8, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> and I know that you have them and that you should use them... but AXIAL fans have no place in your op... other than the circulating fans...
> 
> Get a 4" centrifugal fan FOR YOU LIGHT... set it up like the drawing shows... and you will see a drop in temps...


 
The axial fans are only for air intake. I have a duct booster hooked up to my cooltube. The cooltube is definitely not hot to the touch, the glass is just barely warm so it leads me to believe that I have a heat buildup problem but I don't really understand why.


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 8, 2009)

do you have it hooked up like the drawing?

in duct booster fans are axial and wimpy...


----------



## jrp677 (Aug 8, 2009)

jrp677 said:


> The axial fans are only for air intake. I have a duct booster hooked up to my cooltube. The cooltube is definitely not hot to the touch, the glass is just barely warm so it leads me to believe that I have a heat buildup problem but I don't really understand why.


Here's a crude drawing of my flower room. I had to resize it to be able to post it so sorry if it's too small to see.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 8, 2009)

so the cooltube draws air form the garage and dumps it back to the garage?


----------



## jrp677 (Aug 8, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> so the cooltube draws air form the garage and dumps it back to the garage?


You got it.


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 8, 2009)

Well, the only differences I see in what you are doing is using the axial/duct booster fans and that "box" on top...

I can imagine that it adds considerable drag to the airflow...

And I would bet that you would get more intake if you removed that fans and had proper sized holes...


----------



## jrp677 (Aug 8, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Well, the only differences I see in what you are doing is using the axial/duct booster fans and that "box" on top...
> 
> I can imagine that it adds considerable drag to the airflow...
> 
> And I would bet that you would get more intake if you removed that fans and had proper sized holes...


I think I'm going to try hooking up an axial fan in the 4" passive intake hole to help draw the air out of the flower room. When I close the doors the axial fans in the other chambers spin from the suction so I thought for sure the 465 CFM fan would be powerful enough on its own. Hey, sorry about the previous pics, I didn't realize how small they were.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 8, 2009)

jrp677 said:


> I think I'm going to try hooking up an axial fan in the 4" passive intake hole to help draw the air out of the flower room. When I close the doors the axial fans in the other chambers spin from the suction so I thought for sure the 465 CFM fan would be powerful enough on its own. Hey, sorry about the previous pics, I didn't realize how small they were.


The axial fan will actually block the airflow... they just get in the way...

Make that hole bigger for one thing...

another consideration would be to isolate that box with the ballast...

Use your axial fans to exhaust that area and use ALL cfm of your big fan for flower room...


----------



## jrp677 (Aug 8, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> The axial fan will actually block the airflow... they just get in the way...
> 
> Make that hole bigger for one thing...
> 
> ...


That's an excellent idea! I'm going to move things around tomorrow. If you wouldn't mind, I'd really appreciate it if you would also follow my grow journal. I haven't had anyone offer any good advice on my heat issue and it would be great to have a pro to turn to when problems come up.

BTW ForcedInduction, sorry I kind of took over for a bit, that wasn't my intention when I posted my experience with a 400 watt hps but I hope that people who read your journal are able to learn from my mistake.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 8, 2009)

I am not a pro bro...

I am just a newb...

I just followed proven recipes... that is why my grows look so good...

But I am just a copycat...

I'll take a peek at your journal...

But I subscribe to 659 threads...

Feel free to drop by my journal with your questions... that is the only reliable place to find me...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 9, 2009)

jrp677 said:


> BTW ForcedInduction, sorry I kind of took over for a bit, that wasn't my intention when I posted my experience with a 400 watt hps but I hope that people who read your journal are able to learn from my mistake.


hey no problem, hopefully you get it sorted out


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 11, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> hey no problem, hopefully you get it sorted out



my grow room is now 1/3 bigger than it was. i have plenty of room for the 400w now
i spent the last 4 hours doing some major remodeling. time to smoke a bowl

i'll have pics up tomorrow, iits a huge difference. 
i have a couple of space blankets to put up too


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 11, 2009)

nice... can't wait to see...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 11, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> nice... can't wait to see...


yeah its pretty cool. instead of using plywood to block out the light, i used black and white poly and velcro.

i'll post up the dimesions later when i open it back up but its a good 8 inches deeper than it was. still the same height and width.

i also scored a 70w hps streetlamp to hold me over till i get the 400w. then it will go in my veg room. 
it took a while to pull it apart and rewire it, but it was worth it. i put 6 feet of wire in between the ballast and reflector.


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 12, 2009)

no pics tonight, i just got home and i'm ready to go to sleep!


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## DenseBuds (Aug 21, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> ​


My setup is currently a bit different than your drawing in that I have my carbon filter and fan *inside* my tent. Hot Air/Smell is sucked from the inside of the tent through the filter, through the cool tube, through the fan and out the top vent.

I have a 250watt right now in a 20x36x54 tent and am considering going up to a 400 watt. We do a lot of LST, so I'm not expecting height to be an issue, but if it does become one, I was thinking of moving the fan and filter outside the tent to gain some height back.

Have you noticed any difference *pushing* air through your filter vs pulling it?

Thx


----------



## thechoroid (Aug 21, 2009)

Go for the 400, they're almost the same price as the 250 but work on the air ventillation system, that's gonna be the bitch!


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 21, 2009)

thanks, i'm going for the 400 and the cooltube.

weellll i just called up HTG supply to place my order, and they are SHUTDOWN till next week!!!! WTFFF???


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 21, 2009)

remove Hydroton 10 liter bag $11.95





remove TEN PACK - 3" Net Pots $5.00
remove GH Flora Series Liquid Concentrate - Flora Kit 3 Pack $36.95
remove HTGSupply 400 watt High Pressure Sodium Grow Light
CoolTube 6 Reflector + $70.00
GrowBright 400 watt HPS Bulb + $10.00
No MH Conversion Bulb
No Spare HPS Bulb
No Sunrise Hi-Low Reflector Hangers
No Timer
Standard Warranty
$199.95





remove 2x Sunleaves 12" Air Stone $6.00





remove General Hydroponics pH Control Kit $17.50





remove 2x Sunleaves 6" Air Stone $3.50





remove Sunleaves DuraPump Air
$39.95 $39.95


heres what i am going to order...but now i have to wait an extra week..


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## DenseBuds (Aug 21, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> thanks, i'm going for the 400 and the cooltube.
> 
> weellll i just called up HTG supply to place my order, and they are SHUTDOWN till next week!!!! WTFFF???


Ya. They outgrew their warehouse. Not sure why they need to shutdown for 2 weeks to move though.


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 21, 2009)

yeah its pretty lame, i wanna get this shit going


----------



## fish601 (Aug 21, 2009)

that sucks for you LOL i just got my stuff in a few days ago


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 21, 2009)

haha lucky you


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 26, 2009)

just placed my fist order from cheaphydroponics.com, i just couldn't wait for htg supply any longer, plus this place has really good prices.
i'm still going to order the 400w and cooltube from htg as soon as they come back in business.



General Hydroponics FloraBloom - Qt 1 $8.50
General Hydroponics FloraGro - Qt 1 $8.50 
General Hydroponics FloraMicro - Qt 1 $13.50 
General Hydroponics Liquid KoolBloom - Qt 1 $15.00 
Sunleaves DuraPump H20 - 185GPH 1 $13.00 
1/2" Barbed Elbows - 5pk 1  $3.00 
Sunleaves Fill & Drain Kit 1/2 1 $7.00 
Sunleaves Soft Black Tubing 1/2" - 25Ft $10.00 
1/2" Barbed Tees - 5pk 1 $3.00 
GH pH Control Kit 1 $12.75 
Bluelab Truncheon Meter - PPM/TDS, CF, EC 1 $110.00 
Nutrient Syringe 60cc / 2oz 1 $2.35 
General Hydroponics 1/2" Grommet 8 $5.60 
Hydroton Grow Rocks - 10l 2 $17.00 
3" Net Pot 8 $2.80 
Kord Square Pot 4" 8 $2.40


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## DenseBuds (Aug 27, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> just placed my fist order from cheaphydroponics.com, i just couldn't wait for htg supply any longer, plus this place has really good prices.
> i'm still going to order the 400w and cooltube from htg as soon as they come back in business.
> 
> 
> ...



From the looks of their site, I'd say they're back up and running today.


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 28, 2009)

nope he said to call after 4 but i only got the answering machine. maybe tomorrow...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 1, 2009)

*well instead of waiting for htg supply i decided to place an order at growwurks.com

i think i will be much happier having the switchable ballast.

does anyone know if i can run a 600 watt bulb on the 400 watt setting?


Sun Tube 6" Air-Cooled Reflector*
Ship in discrete brown box?: Yes
9043151$117.95$117.95 
*
Eiko HPS - 400 Watt*
BLB-0031$19.95$19.95 
*
Nextgen 400 and 600 Watt Digital Ballast (Works on MH and HPS Bulbs) *** FREE SHIPPING*
Select power cord.: 120v Cord (Included)
NG400/6001$217.95$217.95


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## Brick Top (Sep 1, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> *does anyone know if i can run a 600 watt bulb on the 400 watt setting?*


 
Not exactly what you asked but I believe it still applies.



*Q.* Can I interchange bulbs between systems?​​​
*A.* No. You should never interchange bulbs between systems unless they are specifically made to do so. Lots of people ask if they can use a 250 watt bulb in a 400 watt system. The answer: Definitely NOT! The bulb could become unstable and explode. Also, never put Halide bulbs in a High Pressure Sodium system. The ballasts are only meant to run the type of bulb they are rated for. A Halide bulb in a Sodium system could overheat and explode. There are conversion bulbs available. These are High Pressure Sodium bulbs that are meant to run off of a Halide ballast.

*I must stress again: use bulbs only in their corresponding systems.*

http://www.accessdiscounts.com/growlightsfaqs.html​


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 1, 2009)

yeah i doubt you can but that would be really cool so i don't have to disconnect the duct on my cooltube everytime i want to run 600 watts


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 1, 2009)

i just called the manufacturer and they said it will work, but will burn the bulb out


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## GypsyBush (Sep 1, 2009)

Bro...

DO NOT MIX WATTAGES....

AT BEST YOU BURN THE BULB...

THE WORSE *STARTS* WITH A FIRE...

You will not be switching bulbs all the time...

400w for the hot months and 600 for the rest...

and you will want to clean the glass anyways...

...

remind me how you are ventilating your tent...

the 4" squirrel cage fan for the light .. right?

and what for an exhaust?


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 1, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Bro...
> 
> DO NOT MIX WATTAGES....
> 
> ...



yes i know not to mix wattages haha 

i only ordered a 400w bulb for now, but will get the 600 very soon..


yes i'm using the squirrel cage to force air through the cooltube and suck air through the intake as well. and if that doesn't work its plan B!

its not a tent either lol, its a small closet...


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 1, 2009)

So you will use the cooltube's fan as exhaust and cooling for the light?

and my bad on the tent thing...lol... stoners...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 1, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> So you will use the cooltube's fan as exhaust and cooling for the light?
> 
> and my bad on the tent thing...lol... stoners...


yeah, well i'm going to try atleast!


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 7, 2009)

man this sucks so bad waiting for this thing, it wont be here till thursday


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 7, 2009)

...................


----------



## customcloset (Sep 8, 2009)

Nice thread!!! You guys just convinced me to bump my watts up to 400 from the planned 250!! 

My grow closet is 3ft x 2ft x 5ft and i'm planning on 2 fans. 1 for the hood and one for ventallation. do you think 2 6in 160cfm infline fans would cut it?

BTW this is my first thread subscription.



Thanks,
CC


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 8, 2009)

no axial fans allowed...

Fans like these are a waste of money.. in my opinion...


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 8, 2009)

you need centrifugal fans...

like these...







or "squirrel cage" fans like these...


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 8, 2009)

some people use axial fans...

But I believe in getting the job done with the right tools...

you can always "tone" the fan down with a speed controller...

a bigger fan at 50% power is quieter than and uses less energy than a small fan "all out"...


----------



## customcloset (Sep 8, 2009)

Thanks,

So if would have a centrifical fan in there say a
http://www.wormsway.com/detail.aspx?t=prod&sku=EIF604&AC=1

which is 152 cfm. would i be able to split the run and have it cool the cool tube and the grow area? or would i have to get 2 of them?

CC


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 8, 2009)

with a small area you could run...

room air >>> reflector>>> fan >>> filter>>>

but ideally you want 2 fans...

and run it like this... intake fan optional...


 ​


----------



## customcloset (Sep 9, 2009)

Ok cool well i found this online at grainger and it looks like it could work well...

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1TDR5


any thoughts my biggest concern is the fact that it has a listed ambient tempeture of 104 degrees do you think this will mess up the temps? 

I looked at other squiral cage fans similar to what other people have recomended and used on RIU and they all seem to have this 104* F rating of ambient temp. 

Do you think i should just dismiss this? or should i keep looking?

Thanks,
CC


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 9, 2009)

it will be fine bro...

but the other type of fan I showed you... is easier to hook up directly to the ducts...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 9, 2009)

i decided to look up my fan

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4C442

thats it exactly! now how can i attach a 6 inch duct to it? i was just gonna stick it over it and duct tape the shit out of it


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 9, 2009)

it spins at 3020 rpm and its pretty loud! but i hope it will be enough to cool my 400/600


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 9, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> i decided to look up my fan
> 
> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4C442
> 
> thats it exactly! now how can i attach a 6 inch duct to it? i was just gonna stick it over it and duct tape the shit out of it


That is why I cose the "other kind"...

The ducting just slips in and clamps down...

Get creative bro... but I will tell you that tape will start letting go about 2 months in...

Your best bet is with adapters from Home Depot or something...

or tape... but that's not a permanent solution...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 9, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> That is why I cose the "other kind"...
> 
> The ducting just slips in and clamps down...
> 
> ...



yeah but it was free.... so i can't complain. it was on a wood stove. 

i don't think i'll have much luck finding an adapter locally. i would have to order something. f that.

duct tape will work fine....i'm only gonna be living here for a couple more months anyways. then i'm moving to utah!


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 9, 2009)

well its supposed to come tomorrow 
hopefully


its really weird, i got an email with a UPS tracking number, but today i got a call from fed ex confirming delivery of a package tomorrow..........


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

well my ballast and bulb came!!!

it was by fedex, so i guess my cooltube is coming by ups

the ballast is really small! i thought it would be bigger


----------



## alforra (Sep 10, 2009)

I don't know if this has already been said but I would go with a SOG grow and yeah.. cooltube that shit.


----------



## alforra (Sep 10, 2009)

If you could keep the ballast on the outside of your grow room that might help with heat a little bit also.


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

lol yeah my cooltube should be here today....


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

alforra said:


> If you could keep the ballast on the outside of your grow room that might help with heat a little bit also.


thats the plan! i can actually have my ballast up to 65' from my bulb!


it also says on the box it works great with generators!

not that i'm using one but hey you never know what will happpen in the future!


----------



## alforra (Sep 10, 2009)

nice!! sounds like a plan!


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

my cooltube finally came.

but of course the plug on the cooltube doesn't fit into the ballast.....


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

well it does actually fit, its kind of weird how it works but oh well!!

its fucking bright as hell!!!!


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 10, 2009)

Nice Bro...!!!

Now let's see it all...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

i'm still setting it up, man does it get hot! 

i'll have plenty of pics later don't worry


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 10, 2009)

That's why you need good ventilation...

My room goes from 75F to 120F in less than 10 minutes if the fans go off...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

i can see how. my temp is still goin up 83.5 now


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

it doesn't fit horizontally so i had to make it vertical....

my temps are back down around 81-82 

this is with the doors open a little bit.. but i think it should get even cooler with them closed because of the suction


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

i still have to line the inside with mylar and run the wires correctly but its working!  i'm very happy


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 10, 2009)

I am glad it's working... 

and I am glad that you put the loose end of the bulb downstream... 

But I am a little confused...

It doesn't fit?

What if you put the fan on the hot side of the tube.. and left the open end without any ducting...


so it would go...

room air>>>>> cool tube >>>> fan >>> outside world...

From the pics it looks like it should fit...


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 10, 2009)

But don't get me wrong...

That is all very very nice...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

my room just isn't wide enough.. the cooltube is way longer than i thought

and yes its all very very nice. i am really glad you convinced me to get it!


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 10, 2009)

not even diagonally?


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

like what do you mean?


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 10, 2009)

from one corner to the other... instead of from side to side...

Diagonally...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

yeah i was going to try to make more diagonal, but it seems to work really good like it is, especially when they grow taller.

its REALLY bright and i'm only using a 400w bulb. i can't even imagine the 600!! 

i'm gonna have to start wearing sunglasses or something? lol


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 10, 2009)

Don't look at it... it will hurt your eyes...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

i would imagine.....



i raised up the tray a lot i'll have pics soon


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

more pics. they really perked up under the new light


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

man this thing is so cool i love it!!!


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

the ballast that is. the cooltube is nothing special...


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 10, 2009)

You deff wanna have the light ABOVE the plants though...

You can make it fit... can't you?


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

yeah... i'm sure i can get it a lot better than it is. but i don't really want to right now. maybe tomorrow night lol i'm tired and pretty drunk haha


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 10, 2009)

right on...

I meant permanently.....


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 10, 2009)

you and your girls are gonna LOVE the new light.....


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

yep i'll be able able to figure something out. i really want to find a 600w bulb now. i'm sooo glad i got the switchable ballast. i would have been so disappointed by the htg supply setup..


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 10, 2009)

I am glad you went with a decent light...

nothing worse than wasting money on 17.3 upgrades...

You probably just bought the last light you will ever buy...

Now you will have a little op that grows nugs like the Pros...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

yeah i really hope so... i've been really struggling lately. smoking some dirty ass shit. lol


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 10, 2009)

Not anymore...

So...

Will you do each grow from seed?

or do you have plans for a Mom/clone station?


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

nope, i have a separate veg room with that DWC thing i made. and some clones in soil. but right now the nextgen is on 24/0 cuz i need to get a timer that is grounded lol.


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 10, 2009)

May I suggest that a cheapo plastic timer is only a TEMPORARY solution...

When an HPS first fires it pulls a LOT of juice...

Plastic is not the way to go...

I recommend that LAST timer you will ever buy..


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 10, 2009)

i have one of those somewhere. from a security light...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 11, 2009)

check it out, the light is perfect now. it was such a tight fit

i gotta get me a 600w bulb! its gonna be a bitch to change the bulbs though...


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 11, 2009)

Oh that looks much better...

Can you move the light up as the plants grow?


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 11, 2009)

yes, i can also move the tray down..


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## GypsyBush (Sep 11, 2009)

Good deal Bro...

What are your temps now?


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 11, 2009)

86..........


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## GypsyBush (Sep 11, 2009)

I bet if you move the fan outside you will lower a couple of degrees more...

what is the temp outside the grow area?


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 11, 2009)

what do you mean move the fan outside the grow area?

idk the temp outside the grow area but its kinda warm. it was really humid today 

it almost seems like my thermometer is lying to me... it doesn't seem that hot in there....


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 11, 2009)

too close?


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## GypsyBush (Sep 11, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> what do you mean move the fan outside the grow area?


Make it suck instea of blow.. and place it at the other end... outside the cab...



ForcedInduction said:


> too close?


Is it too close for the back of your hand???

It should feel like a day at the beach.. no more...


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 11, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Make it suck instea of blow.. and place it at the other end... outside the cab...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i would do that but there is no way to attach the duct to the other end of the fan....

thats exactly what it feels like a hot day at the beach. about an inch or two from the glass


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 11, 2009)

anyone there?

so this morning at 6:00 i got up to take a leak and realized my tray wasn't flooding! wtf! so i unplugged my fan so i could hear if the water pump was running. nope! needless to say my timer somehow reset itself? and i had to re enter everything and reset the time.

BUT! i forgot to plug the fan back in.....

so about a half hour later i was half asleep and noticed the lights were off!! then i noticed the ballast turned off and the red light was flashing. so after opening my cabinet and seeing the temperature was at 97 i realized i never plugged the fan back in! so i plugged it back in and within 5 minutes it was cool. so i plugged the ballast back in and it fired right back up 
thank god

i love this ballast, it somehow knew it was wayy to hot and shut it self down before the bulb exploded! 
i won't be doing that again


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## fish601 (Sep 11, 2009)

lol off to a good start haha


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 11, 2009)

yeah haha i'm being very careful now


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 12, 2009)

well instead of flooding 4 times a day at 12am, 6am, 12pm, and 6pm. i am now flooding 8 times a day. at 12am, 3am, 6am, 9am, 12pm, 3pm, 6pm, and 9pm

i changed it because it seems like they are getting just way to dry


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 12, 2009)

wellll i found an old sylvania 400w metal halide bulb. its OLD lol from the 90's. i popped it in and it fired right up  the thing barely fit in my cooltube lol

its not quite as bright as the hps but a lot better for vegging


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## GypsyBush (Sep 12, 2009)

> its not quite as bright as the hps but a lot better for vegging



Why would you say that?


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 12, 2009)

it just doesn't seem as bright. don't they have a few thousand less lumens?


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 12, 2009)

my temps are also lower


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 12, 2009)

i am still amazed at this ballast.....

i can already see new growth since i switched to the MH. this shits amazing!


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## GypsyBush (Sep 12, 2009)

*Why* are you saying that the MH is better for veg than the HPS?

What's the reason ?


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 12, 2009)

i have always heard that MH is for veg and HPS is better for flowering.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 12, 2009)

They are different...

HPS has more light... and will stretch the plants a bit...

MH will make the nodes tighter and will also produce more leaf matter...

...

In *MY OP* I would NEVER use MH for veg... but I do use for flowering...

It all depends on what you are doing and your preference in doing it...

..

Hearsay should be treated *VERY* cautiously...


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 12, 2009)

here are some more pics with the metal halide. they are growing fast!


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 12, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> They are different...
> 
> HPS has more light... and will stretch the plants a bit...
> 
> ...



well i guess i should put my hps back in!


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## GypsyBush (Sep 12, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> here are some more pics with the metal halide. they are growing fast!


They look GREAT Bro...

And MH is soooooo much more picture friendly...

Looks real sharp...


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## GypsyBush (Sep 12, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> well i guess i should put my hps back in!


For what reason?

Everything you do should have a reason that MAKES COMMON SENSE to you...

Just cause so and so said it... doesn't cut it..

IF you are doing single cola lollipops... you deff want to veg with the HPS...

That LITTLE extra stretch is a good thing on single colas...


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 12, 2009)

i'm trying to get nugs as soon as i can. but i will prob put it back in tomorrow or the next day. tomorrow i'm doing my first res change and i'm using the lucas formula. 0-8-16 so no grow 8 micro and 16 bloom. per gallon


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 12, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> well instead of flooding 4 times a day at 12am, 6am, 12pm, and 6pm. i am now flooding 8 times a day. at 12am, 3am, 6am, 9am, 12pm, 3pm, 6pm, and 9pm
> 
> i changed it because it seems like they are getting just way to dry



gypsy did you see that post ^^^


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 12, 2009)

ok so something weird just happened. the light went out and the ballast show the fault setting. it says to unplug for 5 minutes then plug it back in.....i'm waiting with it unplugged. i hope its the bulb not my new ballast...


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 12, 2009)

well its working now, we'll see what happens...


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 13, 2009)

it just happened again. i hope its just the old metal halide bulb. i unplugged and waited 5 then it fired right back up. if it does it one more time i'm putting the hps back in...


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 13, 2009)

and it just happened again.


i'm putting the hps back in now.


i'm praying it solves the problem


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## GypsyBush (Sep 13, 2009)

I'll come back and \read everything again...

But are all the connections SECURELY FASTENED?

Is the bulb screwed ALL THE WAY IN???

It almost sounds like someting has a bad contact... flickering the bulb ff.... and the DO NOT fire up right away...

Read your manual... see what it says about the "fault" light...


..

as for your flood times...

Experiment...

I have done up to 12 floods a day.. but I stopped cause it was causing algae to grow on the tray that never dried completely...

Your plants will let you know if you're fucking up...


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 13, 2009)

i put the hps back in. i also put a fan on the ballast to keep the heatsink cooler. its seems to be alot cooler now


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 13, 2009)

yes i have read everything over and over again. its screwed in tight. all connections are good. it takes 2 minutes to warm up. the green light flashes when it is warming up, then turns solid green when its up to temp.

the hps is in now so we'll see what happens


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## GypsyBush (Sep 13, 2009)

Good Luck...


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 14, 2009)

some more pics, they seem to be growing even faster with the lucas formula 

so far so good... i added back a gallon of full strength nutes today, there are a little over 10 gallons in the res now.


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 14, 2009)

btw i only have like 105 volts at the outlet the ballast is plugged into


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 14, 2009)

i am so fucking sick of resin hitting my bowl


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 19, 2009)

hey guys sorry i haven't updated in a while. they are doing great! i can't believe how fast they are growing.

my PH and PPM have been almost perfect. i just added a gallon of PH'ed water because the PPM was creeping up around 1400 (using the .7 scale)

in the last few pics you can kind of see how the leaves are kind of yellow. is this from the light being too close?? it can't be nute burn because my PPMs and PH have been absolutely perfect.

regardless of the yellowing they are growing very very fast.


also my F ing digital timer for the pump has been somehow resetting itself at random times screwing up my watering cycle. i'm really pissed. i have two of these timers and they are both broken.


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 19, 2009)

oops missed one


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## GypsyBush (Sep 19, 2009)

It's hard to see with the yeloow light on top of them like that...

But you MAY be seeing some light BLEACHING...

As those plants look to be pretty young still...

I mean.. if you take a small plant and put her in full Sun she'll suffer right?

They gotta get used to it...

I would raise the lights a ways up and let hem get settled.. then star bringing the light back down gradually...

Sorry.. 

I* thought* you had the light kinda close for such small plants, but I didn't say anything...

My bad... I'll be more careful about what I don't say...


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 19, 2009)

haha yeah the light is reallyyy intense. i did raise it up a little bit earlier. i think they should be fine, they are growing REALLY fast


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 21, 2009)

i just wanna say.....

i couldn't be happier. my new setup is running very smooth so far.

thanks for all the help


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 21, 2009)

and i ABSOLUTELY LOVE the fact that i can screw in a 600w bulb, flick a switch on my ballast and have all the light i need


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## GypsyBush (Sep 21, 2009)

I am glad you are happy bro!

You will prolly never need to upgrade...

You might get MORE... but none better...

I would like to see your grow 3 years from now...


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 21, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I am glad you are happy bro!
> 
> You will prolly never need to upgrade...
> 
> ...



haha hopefully it will be comparable to SOG's op


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## GypsyBush (Sep 21, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> haha hopefully it will be comparable to SOG's op



I was thinking more in the lines of 1/10 of his cost and 2x the production...


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 21, 2009)

exactly lol i think he might have over did it just a little


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## GypsyBush (Sep 21, 2009)

Well...

It suits his purposes...

Plus... HE WILL NEVER HAVE TO UPGRADE...

And his shit is ALL automated...

It's pimp... It's deff a FERRARI...

But my VW bus gets me to where I need to go and I can take my friends too......


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 21, 2009)

haha if i had the money to burn, i would SURE AS HELL do the same as him


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## GypsyBush (Sep 21, 2009)

I'm too cheap...

And Lazy...

I would HATE to clean that system... 

Cleaning the glass on my cooltube is work enough for me...


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 21, 2009)

haha i'm pretty lazy too....its all automated though. you could set it up to automatically clean itself!


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 24, 2009)

here are some more pics i just took.

they are really starting to get big! the stems are swelling right up!

my EC/PPM is perfect right at 1.8 or 1300

same with the PH at 6.0

i haven't had to adjust it at all. just add full strength nut solution when the water level drops


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 24, 2009)

they are 24 days old today. well the big ones are.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 25, 2009)

Looking Good Bro!!!


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 25, 2009)

thanks i reduced the floods to every 4 hours because i was told i have signs of over watering "the claw"


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## ForcedInduction (Feb 26, 2010)

whats happening every1 haven't posted in a while. here's what i'm doin now.

the nextgen is still running strong with a 600w hortilux

i was told the strain was ak47 but i am not sure.

the first pic is in a 5 gal bucket DWC. now its in a 30 gal 

in a few days i'm gonna clone the shit out of her then switch it to flower after she recovers


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## ForcedInduction (Feb 26, 2010)

still using the lucas formula


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## ForcedInduction (Feb 26, 2010)

..............


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## GypsyBush (Mar 20, 2010)

Glad to see you around..


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## thcboy (Nov 6, 2010)

NOW THAT RIGHT THERE IS WHAT I CALL AN EBB N FLOW SYSTEM!!!!!!!!! only thing is, instead of using airpumps and airstones,i'll use h202 to oxygenate the nutrients.


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## thcboy (Nov 6, 2010)

how do you calculate the gallons and number of plants by size of room for E&F


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