# Voting Against Prop 19 means :



## The Potologist (Aug 1, 2010)

voting against the safest and most defenseless medicine on the planet earth

voting against the millions of lives ruined by marijuana prohibition everyday

voting against the movement which we worked so hard for 70 years

voting against the CHANCE that you wont make as much money when all likelyhood you will make more and be safer - effectively voting against yourself.

voting against the truth that all marijuana use is medicinal and safe

voting against THE PEOPLE

Voting for hypocracies that marijuana shouldnt be legal cause its a medicine and that no human has the right to use it for recreation

Voting against the herb and telling the Government that you believe in prohibition, you are okay with being a suppressed victim of prohibition. That the mexican mafia is okay. That the black market is where you like to get your drugs. That you dont care about the laws?

Seriously, lets set ones own selfish desire aside. Even those who are responsible for Prop 19 agree that it is not perfect, but its our start. There is absolutely NO REASON TO VOTE AGAINST IT. IF YOU DO, YOU SUPPORT :

Prohibition ( kinda odd/hypocritical to be a prohibitionist but consume cannabis)
DONT SUPPORT MEDICAL MARIJUANA ( supporting against Prop 19 means you WANT PROHIBITION...which includes Medical or not)

THE DEA ( they believe regulation or legalization is a "Non-Starter". Prop 19 is our start. Either you are with Prop 19 or with the Dea and the whole "non-starting" ideologies)

The Mexican Mafia ( or any illegal growers) They REALLY dont want any regulation or legalization. 

You Also are telling the Government that ITS OKAY TO BE A VICTIM OF PROHIBITION. I guess some people have not suffered enough consequences of Prohibition. Moreso, Nothing like an invitation to suppress the people and its plant!!

THIS IS SO SO SAD. We are a Cannabis Forum!!!! TO say you are against Prop 19 is just tragically ignorrant. ( I say that with no disprespect to ANYONE).


Laslty, we are a reformed society. We have more amendments than any other country. We start with Prop 19 and amend it from there. The Pros and Cons are way to obvious and clear here. Personally...if prop 19 fails.....shame shame shame on us! We have our chance...if you consume cannabis or believe that A PLANT HAS A RIGHT TO BE FREE AND NOT SUPRESSED, or have had enough of being a victim of prohibition, or dont want the mexican mafia around anymore, or want to grow your own medicine or get it from some other place other than the black market ...Than do the RIGHT FUCKING THING...HIT THE YES BUTTON COME NOVEMBER!!!

AS things stand right now...The Government has FULL CONTROL. They have TOLD US NO WE WONT regulate and legalize. When WE SHARE THE POWER, WE HAVE A SAY...Until then....Dont bitch, whine, cry because its illegal. Moreso....Make sure to hit yourself REAL FUCKING HARD...RIGHT IN THE BACK OF YOUR OWN HEAD...IF you vote NO and get caught up in a pinch....bet you will wish for Prop 19 then!!!

Voting Against SHOULD BE NON OPTIONAL!!! IF YOU DO, GO JOIN THE CRIMINALS IN THE MEXICAN MAFIA>>>THATS WHO YOU ARE SUPPORTING IF YOU VOTE AGAINST IT. THERE IS NO TWO WAYS AROUND THAT FACT!!!!!

Lets do this People! Prop 19 is not perfect, but its our chance to send a very clean message to the Federal Government. Dont be selfish, do THE RIGHT THING...VOTE FOR PROP 19 in November!!!

Peace, Love, and Happiness


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## ganjaluvr (Aug 1, 2010)

Vote _*YES *_for *Prop 19!*


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## The Potologist (Aug 1, 2010)

My biggest Point that I really wish to say and clarify as much as possible is this ...VOTING AGAINST PROP19 Means You believe that INNOCENT CHILDREN BEING KILLED OVER OUT PLANT is CONDONABLE and is a situation that can "wait" because the measure in place to get rid of that is not "good enough or is bad"....If You think that INNOCENT CHILDREN CAN WAIT FOR A BETTER PROP...PLEASE GET THE FUCK OUT THIS PLANET....These are CHILDREN PEOPLE that ARE BEING SLAIN!!! KILLED BY DRUG LORDS...Seriously WHAT IN THE HELL DOES IT TAKE TO SHOW ONE THAT VOTING AGAINST PROP 19 IS SUCH THE WRONG THING TO DO. If you have kids, and you vote against Prop 19....seriously....fuck outta here with calling yourself a parent or even a human. ITS OUR DUTY TO PROTECT OUR KIDS...PASS PROP 19

Peace, Love, and Happiness


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## ford442 (Aug 2, 2010)

prohibition fuels the Mexican drug war! i am voting *YES*.

http://projects.latimes.com/mexico-drug-war/#/its-a-war


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## Dan Kone (Aug 2, 2010)

ford442 said:


> prohibition fuels the Mexican drug war! i am voting *YES*.
> 
> http://projects.latimes.com/mexico-drug-war/#/its-a-war


It fuels the drug war on both sides of the boarder. Cannabis is actually a significant portion of the drug cartels income. Ending prohibition will deal a significant blow to the cartels.


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## The Potologist (Aug 3, 2010)

ford442 said:


> prohibition fuels the Mexican drug war! i am voting *YES*.
> 
> http://projects.latimes.com/mexico-drug-war/#/its-a-war


Thanks so much for the support on Prop 19 guys  

Peace, Love, and Happiness


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## CultivationArt (Sep 13, 2010)

Vote yes, iv been around on these stupid vote no on 19, it will destroy 215 and overule sb 420.
well it wont, thats all bull shit ass rumors stated by people who hate for a living. Pass this link.
my step father is a doctor who know all rights to 215 ofcoarse, as well as 19, pass this link
and provide the infromation around. it need to be seen. VOTE YES ON 19


PROP. 19 IS THE BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO MMJ PATIENTS SINCE PROP. 215

Anyone who claims that Proposition 19 will restrict or eliminate rights under the Compassionate Use Act (CUA) or the Medical marijuana Program (MMP) is simply wrong. If anything, Proposition 19 will permit individuals to grow and possess much more than ever before with patients, coops and collectives still receiving the same protections they are entitled to under the CUA and MMP.


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## mr2shim (Sep 14, 2010)

Don't vote no on prop 19. That's so arrogant. At least it's giving marijuana a change. No law or bill is perfect, yes prop 19 is far from perfect but it is a HUGE step in the right direction. That's why you should vote for it. Turning it down would only make matters worse. It will only postpone the legality of it longer and that is wrong.


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## Needofweed (Sep 14, 2010)

prop 19 is bad for small business
go to youtube-search-marijuana walmartization then google-oakland marijuana massproductin.
if you know someone who owns a hydro supply shop or any other small busines that is assotiated with small local grow opps they will probibly go out of businuse due to "BIG MARIJUANA".


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## Dan Kone (Sep 14, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> prop 19 is bad for small business
> go to youtube-search-marijuana walmartization then google-oakland marijuana massproductin.
> if you know someone who owns a hydro supply shop or any other small busines that is assotiated with small local grow opps they will probibly go out of businuse due to "BIG MARIJUANA".


How come the current large grow ops don't put smaller growers out of business then?

There is nothing new about large California grow ops. What you mean to say is that ending prohibition is bad for current commercial growers that make high profits due to risk.


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## Needofweed (Sep 14, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> How come the current large grow ops don't put smaller growers out of business then?
> 
> There is nothing new about large California grow ops. What you mean to say is that ending prohibition is bad for current commercial growers that make high profits due to risk.


no it bad for local business that depend on local growers to buy products like "fox farm nutrients" and hydrofarm light".
ever wounder why it illegal to grow tabacco in almost every state,ever heard of "BIG tabacco" they made it that way.
how long before "BIG marijuana" lobbies for the samething. remember that they will sell it for a profit so if you grow your own they make no mony.


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## Dan Kone (Sep 14, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> no it bad for local business that depend on local growers to buy products like "fox farm nutrients" and hydrofarm light".
> ever wounder why it illegal to grow tabacco in almost every state,ever heard of "BIG tabacco" they made it that way.
> how long before "BIG marijuana" lobbies for the samething. remember that they will sell it for a profit so if you grow your own they make no mony.


So you support prohibition then?


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## Needofweed (Sep 14, 2010)

i believe in decriminalization of cannabis,not legalization.
prop 19 was made up buy big business for big business
i do not support big business.
i support cheap good weed for all.
i support the Right to grow your own.
i support small business.
i support legal marijuana.
i do not support prop 19


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## Dan Kone (Sep 14, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> i believe in decriminalization of cannabis,not legalization.





> i support legal marijuana.


lol? 



> i support cheap good weed for all.


The current system does not allow for good cheap weed. The markup is over a 1000% for indoor, several thousand percent for outdoor. That's not cheap. Bud has roughly the same value as the pre-recession price of gold. That's an insane price. 

If it was legal, there is no way it stays that high.


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## bigv1976 (Sep 14, 2010)

I am sorry but it makes me sick to be in a state where weed is 100% illegal and listen to some shitbag whine over the idea that legalizing weed will cut down on their profits. Fuck you and your profits.


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## Needofweed (Sep 15, 2010)

look lets get one thing strait first and formost im not trying to disresrect anyone. this is my point of view. i want just as bad to have legal bud in the state i just dont think that prop 19 is the right way to do it. also im not talking about growers and there profits im talking about small companies that depend on todays maket wich will be destroyed buy big marijuana corporations. i know full well that there is larg scale marijuana ops exist in cali but they dont go down to to local head shop to buy a quart of nutrient or 12 plastic pot or a hydro set up. they buy bulk from big manufactering companies.also why is there such harsh restritions on how much people can grow at there own homes, because "they"(big marijuana) dont want competition.it says that a person can grow at a private residents in a 25 squared foot area. theres no specification on how many people at the resedent can grow,in othere words i live with 4 othere people all over the age of 21 and this prop does not garantee all of use individual 25 square foot plots. insted it sugguest that each household use a 25 foot plot regardless of the number of people in the house hold that use marijuana. this again is to prevent compitition with corporations what will try and monopolize the industy.
one othere thing legal bud does not mean full scale legalization of bud. theres no county in the world that has legal bud to the extent that prop 19 alows


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## Needofweed (Sep 15, 2010)

california needs to take a duth approach at it.

*The regulations*

The Dutch have divided drugs into two groups, depending on their influence on human health &#8211; *soft drugs* and *hard drugs*. Hard drugs as cocaine, LSD, morphine, heroin are forbidden in the Netherlands as in any other country. 
Soft drugs as *cannabis* in all its forms (marijuana, hashish, hash oil) and hallucinogenic mushrooms (so called magic mushrooms or paddos &#8211; from Dutch: paddestoel - mushroom) are legal under condition of so called &#8220;*personal use*&#8221;. As a result smoking of cannabis even in public, is not prosecuted as well as selling it although technically illegal under still valid Opium Act (dating from 1919, cannabis added as drug in 1950), is widely *tolerated* provided that it happens in a limited, controlled way (in a coffee shop, small portions, 5 grams maximum transaction, not many portions on stock, sale only to adults, no minors on the premises, no advertisement of drugs, the local municipality did not give the order to close the coffee shop).


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## Needofweed (Sep 15, 2010)

im not saying use this word for word im just saying it a better moddel then prop 19


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## Needofweed (Sep 15, 2010)

lear the truth watch this!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/v/nJhBWaNPV3w&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGWSdrU31B0


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## mr2shim (Sep 15, 2010)

bigv1976 said:


> I am sorry but it makes me sick to be in a state where weed is 100% illegal and listen to some shitbag whine over the idea that legalizing weed will cut down on their profits. Fuck you and your profits.


I will give you a internet pat on the back. That's exactly how I feel. Maybe Prop 19 is the paving way to get marijuana legal across the US. You'll always have idiots shit on solutions for their own selfish reasons. It's really pathetic but it's part of life. They don't give a shit about Marijuana and why it should be legal, all they care about are themselves and how much money they are bringing in.


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## Needofweed (Sep 15, 2010)

The Rancho Cordova measure would impose a $600 annual tax per square foot of indoor cultivation of 25 square feet of marijuana or less and a $900 per square foot tax if the indoor growing area is more than 25 square feet.The city tax would cost a local indoor grower $6,000 a year on 10 square feet of pot plants and $15,000 for 25 square feet. Outdoor growers, who would be billed at a lower rate, would pay a $1,200 residential tax for 25 square feet of marijuana plants.If Proposition 19 passes, it would allow California adults over 21 to cultivate in a 25-square foot residential space. Medical growers often exceed those limits by cultivating with other potpatients. http://calpotnews.com/government/bal...ordovaballot/ these taxes brought to you buy prop19 and this is for everyone even prop215 people.this is why prop19 sucks there no limitations on the goverment capabilicies of every resteriction on the average joe.who the fuck want to get taxed to grow mj even if your not selling it. its bswe the people of ca. can only legalize mj once, then thats it.and prop 19 is the wores peace of legislative cap ive ever seen in my life.are people that desperate to smoke mj with government opproval.give me a fucking brake and get a life and build some fucking standers for fucks sake.</p>


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## miteubhi? (Sep 15, 2010)

mr2shim said:


> I will give you a internet pat on the back. That's exactly how I feel. Maybe Prop 19 is the paving way to get marijuana legal across the US. You'll always have idiots shit on solutions for their own selfish reasons. It's really pathetic but it's part of life. They don't give a shit about Marijuana and why it should be legal, all they care about are themselves and how much money they are bringing in.


You fail to see the point. The rich get rich and the poor get poorer.


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## mistaphuck (Sep 15, 2010)

its still a step forward in my mind, besides its only one states law, I say cooperate and make it go smoothly so other states fall in line and it becomes federally legalized, I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is a CAPITALIST country, the little guys going to get boned no matter what, it doesn't matter what fashion in which you implement legalization, capitalism will still show its face. 



"You fail to see the point. The rich get rich and the poor get poorer." < so whats new?


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## underplay (Sep 15, 2010)

Absolutely agree with the OP. Great post.


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## miteubhi? (Sep 15, 2010)

mistaphuck said:


> its still a step forward in my mind, besides its only one states law, I say cooperate and make it go smoothly so other states fall in line and it becomes federally legalized, I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is a CAPITALIST country, the little guys going to get boned no matter what, it doesn't matter what fashion in which you implement legalization, capitalism will still show its face.
> 
> 
> 
> "You fail to see the point. The rich get rich and the poor get poorer." < so whats new?



Mista, you live in a medical state, why would you want them to take rights away from you.

Signing of from sunny southern California, where it was eighty degrees today

Have a nice winter.


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## mistaphuck (Sep 15, 2010)

miteubhi? said:


> Mista, you live in a medical state, why would you want them to take rights away from you.
> 
> Signing of from sunny southern California, where it was eighty degrees today
> 
> Have a nice winter.


I live in a medical state with no dispensaries and a bs way of getting your card, I grow illegally, I'd sure like to grow legally, even if I had to pay. what rights would I be losing? the way I see it, I stand to lose more now than if it were legalized.



I rather enjoy our nine month winters..


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## underplay (Sep 15, 2010)

miteubhi? said:


> Mista, you live in a medical state, why would you want them to take rights away from you.
> 
> Signing of from sunny southern California, where it was eighty degrees today
> 
> Have a nice winter.


Hey fool, here you go.

Prop. 19 makes it perfectly clear that the Initiative does NOT give municipalities any control over how medical marijuana patients obtain their medicine or how much they can possess and cultivate as the purpose of the legislation was to exempt the CUA and the MMP from local government reach. Whatever control municipalities have over patients and collectives is limited by the CUA and the MMP, not by Prop. 19.

Prop. 19 makes it perfectly clear that the Initiative does NOT give municipalities any control over how medical marijuana patients obtain their medicine or how much they can possess and cultivate as the purpose of the legislation was to exempt the CUA and the MMP from local government reach. Whatever control municipalities have over patients and collectives is limited by the CUA and the MMP, not by Prop. 19.

Prop. 19 makes it perfectly clear that the Initiative does NOT give municipalities any control over how medical marijuana patients obtain their medicine or how much they can possess and cultivate as the purpose of the legislation was to exempt the CUA and the MMP from local government reach. Whatever control municipalities have over patients and collectives is limited by the CUA and the MMP, not by Prop. 19.

Prop. 19 makes it perfectly clear that the Initiative does NOT give municipalities any control over how medical marijuana patients obtain their medicine or how much they can possess and cultivate as the purpose of the legislation was to exempt the CUA and the MMP from local government reach. Whatever control municipalities have over patients and collectives is limited by the CUA and the MMP, not by Prop. 19.

Prop. 19 makes it perfectly clear that the Initiative does NOT give municipalities any control over how medical marijuana patients obtain their medicine or how much they can possess and cultivate as the purpose of the legislation was to exempt the CUA and the MMP from local government reach. Whatever control municipalities have over patients and collectives is limited by the CUA and the MMP, not by Prop. 19.


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## BL0TT0 (Sep 15, 2010)

Taken from wiki

According to the State of California analysis, the bill will have the following effects.[6]
*[edit] Legalization of personal marijuana-related activities*

Persons age 21 and older:


May possess up to 1 ounce (28 g) of marijuana for personal consumption.
May use marijuana in a non-public place such as a residence or a public establishment licensed for on site marijuana consumption.
May grow marijuana at a private residence in a space of up to 25 square feet (2.3 m2) for personal use.
 *[edit] Local government regulation of commercial production and sale*



Local government may authorize the retail sale of up to 1 ounce of marijuana per transaction, and regulate the hours and location of the business.
Local government may authorize larger amounts of marijuana for personal possession and cultivation, or for commercial cultivation, transportation, and sale.
Allows for the transportation of marijuana from a licensed premises in one city or county to a licensed premises in another city or county, without regard to local laws of intermediate localities to the contrary.
 *[edit] Imposition and collection of taxes and fees*



Allows the collection of taxes specifically to allow local governments to raise revenue or to offset any costs associated with marijuana regulation.
 *[edit] Authorization of criminal and civil penalties*



Maintains existing laws against selling drugs to a minor and driving under the influence.
Maintains an employer's right to address consumption of marijuana that affects an employee's job performance.
Maintain existing laws against interstate or international transportation of marijuana.
Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any marijuana to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four or five years.
Every person 21 years of age or over, who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any marijuana to someone older than the age of 18 but younger than 21, shall be imprisoned in county jail for up to six months and fined up to $1,000 per offense.
Any person who is licensed, permitted, or authorized to sell marijuana, who knowingly sells or gives away marijuana to someone under the age of 14, shall be imprisoned in state prison for a period of three, five, or seven years

Looks like it adds a bit more responsibility to being a stoner. Adds rights to the stoner. Where does it take away any? There is no mention of 215 at all!


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## Needofweed (Sep 15, 2010)

besides the name, were els in the props literature dose it say legal or legalization.It doesnt..all it take about is taxes and regulations.Becuase thats all it does. This bill was not made to leaglize mj the only reason it in the title is to get people exited.this bill is designed to sipmly charge people outrageous taxes to smoke and grow weed. WHY DO WE NEED GOVERNMET APPROVAL


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## mistaphuck (Sep 15, 2010)

needofweed said:


> besides the name, were els in the props literature dose it say legal or legalization.it doesnt..all it take about is taxes and regulations.becuase thats all it does. This bill was not made to leaglize mj the only reason it in the title is to get people exited.this bill is designed to sipmly charge people outrageous taxes to smoke and grow weed. Why do we need governmet approval


 I'm pretty sure its so we don't have the chance of getting BUTTFUCKED IN PRISON


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## BL0TT0 (Sep 15, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> besides the name, were els in the props literature dose it say legal or legalization.It doesnt...


 It's not even in the title. It's called The Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010. Not the Legalize, and Regulate Weed bill...


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## underplay (Sep 15, 2010)

BL0TT0 said:


> Taken from wiki
> 
> According to the State of California analysis, the bill will have the following effects.[6]
> *[edit] Legalization of personal marijuana-related activities*
> ...


Thats called legalization.


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## Needofweed (Sep 15, 2010)

no it not it called taxation and regulation


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## mistaphuck (Sep 15, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> no it not it called taxation and regulation


 No offense, but you edited your post but left the S's off your its?
A vital part of winning a "debate" and changing views and opinions is being articulate.
Just an observation, I'm not trying to be a dick.

Edit: Or a grammar nazi.


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## mistaphuck (Sep 15, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> The Rancho Cordova measure would impose a $600 annual tax per square foot of indoor cultivation of 25 square feet of marijuana or less and a $900 per square foot tax if the indoor growing area is more than 25 square feet.The city tax would cost a local indoor grower $6,000 a year on 10 square feet of pot plants and $15,000 for 25 square feet. Outdoor growers, who would be billed at a lower rate, would pay a $1,200 residential tax for 25 square feet of marijuana plants.If Proposition 19 passes, it would allow California adults over 21 to cultivate in a 25-square foot residential space. Medical growers often exceed those limits by cultivating with other potpatients. http://calpotnews.com/government/bal...ordovaballot/ these taxes brought to you buy prop19 and this is for everyone even prop215 people.this is why prop19 sucks there no limitations on the goverment capabilicies of every resteriction on the average joe.who the fuck want to get taxed to grow mj even if your not selling it. its bswe the people of ca. can only legalize mj once, then thats it.and prop 19 is the wores peace of legislative cap ive ever seen in my life.are people that desperate to smoke mj with government opproval.give me a fucking brake and get a life and build some fucking standers for fucks sake.</p>



Read it, where does it give a dollar amount for the taxation? Where did you get this 6000 dollars a year stuff?
http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/pdf/english/text-proposed-laws.pdf#prop19


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## underplay (Sep 15, 2010)

mistaphuck said:


> Read it, where does it give a dollar amount for the taxation? Where did you get this 6000 dollars a year stuff?
> http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/pdf/english/text-proposed-laws.pdf#prop19


mistaphuck, he is correct about the prices. For SACRAMENTO county ONLY.

You see, prop 19 allows counties to set there own taxes, so Sacramento county chose $600 annual tax per square foot.

So, who really cares? All you gotta do is move out of Sacramento county to a more reasonable county to grow. They will lose out for providing such a large tax increase.


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## Dan Kone (Sep 16, 2010)

underplay said:


> mistaphuck, he is correct about the prices. For SACRAMENTO county ONLY.
> 
> You see, prop 19 allows counties to set there own taxes, so Sacramento county chose $600 annual tax per square foot.
> 
> So, who really cares? All you gotta do is move out of Sacramento county to a more reasonable county to grow. They will lose out for providing such a large tax increase.


It's not even that. It's just in one city in Sacramento. And I doubt that will stand. In all probability that law is unconstitutional. The courts will have to decide.


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## underplay (Sep 16, 2010)

Ah ok, thanks for the correction.


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## Needofweed (Sep 16, 2010)

say you got about 5.5 million people in cali that smoke weed...OKnow say each person smoke 2 grams a day.OK2x5.5million=11 million grams adayOKnow 11million X one year (365)=4.015 billion grams a year.OKnow divided that buy one kilo(1000 grams)..4.015 billion\1000=4,015,000 kilos a yearOKbut right now a huge percent of someker are prop215 paitent wich grow and smoke there own weed for cheap.but if 19 passes it will be cheaper for them to buy it due to outrages taxes on non profit growers and that floods the market with huge demand wich will raise prices to posibly never befor seen prices.this leaves a huge market for illegal sellers and yes even cartells wich will still grow illegal taxe free cheap weed.it will take an huge amount of square feet,electricity,wate,nutriens,and man power to provide for this demand and weed prices will drop maybe 20-60 dollors an oz. at the most.


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## Dan Kone (Sep 16, 2010)

miteubhi? said:


> You fail to see the point. The rich get rich and the poor get poorer.


No. It's the people who prepared getting what they deserved and the people who instead just sat around and bitched about it getting the shaft. Fighting against prop 19 is essentially just fighting for the rights of the lazy and blaming other people for being informed and motivated. 

Prop 19 isn't a surprise. You've all had time to step your game up.


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## Needofweed (Sep 16, 2010)

say you got about 5.5 million people in cali that smoke weed...OKnow say each person smoke 2 grams a day.OK2x5.5million=11 million grams adayOKnow 11million X one year (365)=4.015 billion grams a year.OKnow divided that buy one kilo(1000 grams)..4.015 billion\1000=4,015,000 kilos a yearOKbut right now a huge percent of someker are prop215 paitent wich grow and smoke there own weed for cheap.but if 19 passes it will be cheaper for them to buy it due to outrages taxes on non profit growers and that floods the market with huge demand wich will raise prices to posibly never befor seen prices.this leaves a huge market for illegal sellers and yes even cartells wich will still grow illegal taxe free cheap weed.it will take an huge amount of square feet,electricity,wate,nutriens,and man power to provide for this demand and weed prices will drop maybe 20-60 dollors an oz. at the most. ..............................................learn the facts........................................................................................


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## mistaphuck (Sep 16, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> No. It's the people who prepared getting what they deserved and the people who instead just sat around and bitched about it getting the shaft. Fighting against prop 19 is essentially just fighting for the rights of the lazy and blaming other people for being informed and motivated.
> 
> Prop 19 isn't a surprise. You've all had time to step your game up.


yup capitalism is a bitch isn't it?


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## Needofweed (Sep 16, 2010)

people simply dont understand the law im not against leganization im against prop19 I would father wait 2 more years for a better prop to come along(cause they will) instead of voteing for this trash


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## mistaphuck (Sep 16, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> say you got about 5.5 million people in cali that smoke weed...OKnow say each person smoke 2 grams a day.OK2x5.5million=11 million grams adayOKnow 11million X one year (365)=4.015 billion grams a year.OKnow divided that buy one kilo(1000 grams)..4.015 billion\1000=4,015,000 kilos a yearOKbut right now a huge percent of someker are prop215 paitent wich grow and smoke there own weed for cheap.but if 19 passes it will be cheaper for them to buy it due to outrages taxes on non profit growers and that floods the market with huge demand wich will raise prices to posibly never befor seen prices.this leaves a huge market for illegal sellers and yes even cartells wich will still grow illegal taxe free cheap weed.it will take an huge amount of square feet,electricity,wate,nutriens,and man power to provide for this demand and weed prices will drop maybe 20-60 dollors an oz. at the most. ..............................................learn the facts........................................................................................




how can one trust your math when you obviously failed english? you just keep copying and pasting these poorly worded paragraphs all over the place, maybe your right maybe not, all I have to say is you should take some english and economics night classes or something..


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## Needofweed (Sep 16, 2010)

look dued your threatened because im exposing your little prop19 im here to get my voice heard and may point across.so if all you got is my spelling ...lol its true i cant spell for shit but somehow i still know more about this stupid prop then you.


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## mistaphuck (Sep 16, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> look dued your threatened because im exposing your little prop19 im here to get my voice heard and may point across.so if all you got is my spelling ...lol its true i cant spell for shit but somehow i still know more about this stupid prop then you.


ok first off dued I'm not threatened by anything you write, and this isn't "my prop 19" dued. I live in ALASKA and give ZERO hamster doodies about california. and how do you expect to get your "voice heard" when you can barley articulate. all you probably did was watch some youtube video and your just re-spewing it all over the place, "lear the truth!" I just started reading about prop 19 earlier today and I can already tell that your making this into something its not, your never going to stop "big business" not in this country. free market buddeh. your most likely mad because you won't be able to sling your dime bags anymore. Anything even resembling legalization is better than nothing.


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## Dan Kone (Sep 16, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> due to outrages taxes on non profit growers


lol @ non-profit growers btw. These nonprofit growers are making obscene amounts of money compared to cost/labor.

Prop 19 doesn't tax non-profit growers. One city out of hundreds in the state has proposed a law taxing growers. Even if that law is constitutional, which I doubt it is since there are 2 arguments for it being unconstitutional, I seriously doubt that the city of Rancho Cordova is producing enough bud to effect prices state wide.

Claiming that they are going to tax personal grows across the state is completely dishonest on your part. When ever you misrepresent the truth to oppose prop 19 all you're doing is showing everyone that you need to lie to oppose prop 19. If prop 19 was really something worthy of opposing, you wouldn't need to lie to do it.


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## Dan Kone (Sep 16, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> look dued your threatened because im exposing your little prop19 im here to get my voice heard and may point across.so if all you got is my spelling ...lol its true i cant spell for shit but somehow i still know more about this stupid prop then you.


I don't give a shit if you can't spell. I do care that you're misrepresenting the truth. You're going around telling everyone that their personal grows are going to be taxed. Does it bother you at all that you are lying to support prohibition? I'm shocked that anyone but a cop would do this. It's mind blowing that people on these forums are willing to lie to support prohibition.


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## mistaphuck (Sep 16, 2010)

miteubhi? said:


> Dude, not dued.


 hey dued I cant make fun of lear the truth guy who would father wait two years instead of voteing for this trash?


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## Raptured (Sep 18, 2010)

I vote yes.. but I dont live in cali.


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## Dan Kone (Sep 19, 2010)

Raptured said:


> I vote yes.. but I dont live in cali.


prop 19 may effect you too some day even if your not in Cali. Hopefully may other states will come up with their own legalization laws after prop 19 passes.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 20, 2010)

mistaphuck said:


> I'm pretty sure its so we don't have the chance of getting BUTTFUCKED IN PRISON


We don't need government approval, we need the option to legitimize. And to not be violated in prison...for sure.

Most Cali Cannabis will go where it has always gone...to the black market and out of Cali. And the current growers, the ones who are against 19 and reporting income like responsible contributing Americans, will not be affected. Their sour d will go for the same price as always. And they will squeak by, pretending to be legit under 215, as usual.

Yes, the wording sucks in 19. The Jack H initiative is more of something I can fully support. But, 19 was written to pass this year. Not in two years, or in ten. NOW. Let's lead the way. Of course 19 sucks on the ground, Big Business and that can of worms, but we will set the stage for the rest of the world to consider steps in the right direction. I hate to admit it, but big business has a right to exist, even in the canna-world, unfortunately. I know for a fact that small farmed products will always fetch top dollar and be in high demand. Phillip morris will never be able to do what I do. NEVER.

So for the poor people, the one's who can't buy a 215 rec, pass this initiative. 
Or do it for the international headlines "California Legalized Pot". And the millions of people who have new ideas planted in their heads when they hear an American state legalized ganja (even though we just taxed and regulated it).


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## Needofweed (Sep 20, 2010)

Matt Rize out of all the shit ive read on these threads what you just wrote in #54 is probably the only thing that makes me kinda want to vote yes.Great Job!


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## Matt Rize (Sep 20, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> Matt Rize out of all the shit ive read on these threads what you just wrote in #54 is probably the only thing that makes me kinda want to vote yes.Great Job!


Thanks. We all need to take a realistic look at the long term ramifications of this proposition. I do not approve of the specifics. I support the global "head change" if you will, that may come about by this HISTORIC legislation. Cannabis used to be taxed and regulated, back in the day before prohibition, this is nothing new and specifics will be different in each county. Can Cali "take one for the team"? I'm not so sure right now, the polls are useless. And if this passes will it also pass the challenges in court that are sure to come? 

Stopping big business is impossible, they will have their hand in this one way or another. The US gov't already has the patent on Cannabinoids as cancer preventatives and the cancer-stick companies are drooling. BUT diminishing both big business and big gov't is possible via grass roots movements. Support your local organic farmers, and grow the organic nation. Shop at the farmer's markets, and small family run markets.

Currently undecided, but leaning towards yes on 19...


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## Dan Kone (Sep 20, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> Stopping big business is impossible, they will have their hand in this one way or another. The US gov't already has the patent on Cannabinoids as cancer preventatives and the cancer-stick companies are drooling. BUT diminishing both big business and big gov't is possible via grass roots movements. Support your local organic farmers, and grow the organic nation. Shop at the farmer's markets, and small family run markets.


I understand not wanting big corporations growing/selling bud, but don't we want corporations who can afford to throw millions of dollars in cannabinoid research to do so if it could potentially save lives?


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## tc1 (Sep 20, 2010)

Having big business involved with marijuana only ENSURES that it stays legal and regulated sensibly.


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## Raptured (Sep 20, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Having big business involved with marijuana only ENSURES that it stays legal and regulated sensibly.


Yeah and we are certainly not talking about Microsoft, Apple or Google like companies here.. Many many companies will be competing over your weed money. Who will be the Budweiser of Marijuana? Who will be the Keystone light? lol... If you ever had the pleasure of drinking keystone light you might chuckle a bit cause its the nastiest beer ever.. or at least right up there.


IMO Marijuana is fun to grow.. I love watching the plant grow and form its beautiful smokable flowers.. I never made my own alcohol but imo there is a big difference between these 2 drugs. I think one of the real reasons why Marijuana is illegal is because so many people in the summer months can make a small garden and supply a lot of there own weed thus making a lot less profit from its legalization. God only knows how much money is given to politicians directly or indirectly from the people who want to keep it illegal for there own profits. Does anyone agree with that point of view?


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## Dan Kone (Sep 20, 2010)

Raptured said:


> Yeah and we are certainly not talking about Microsoft, Apple or Google like companies here.. Many many companies will be competing over your weed money. Who will be the Budweiser of Marijuana? Who will be the Keystone light? lol... If you ever had the pleasure of drinking keystone light you might chuckle a bit cause its the nastiest beer ever.. or at least right up there.


A very good point. The budweiser of cannabis will probably some medical grower 
who currently has no idea that is what he'll end up becoming. 

Quality is king when it comes to bud. The people who can put out large quantities of top shelf bud are going to be the most successful. It definitely won't be who ever can put out the cheapest ditch weed. When it comes to bud, on the average people choose quality over price. In dispensaries, it's always the best bud that sells out quickest, not the bud with the lowest price. 

There is no saying who will end up with the biggest most profitable operations in California. One thing I can guarantee is that it won't be Richard Lee like a lot of people are saying. The guy doesn't know shit about growing bud. Just go to the bluesky dispensary and see it for yourself. All most all of the bud sold their is his own. It's an inferior product. 



> IMO Marijuana is fun to grow..


I like growing it more than smoking it.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 21, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> I understand not wanting big corporations growing/selling bud, but don't we want corporations who can afford to throw millions of dollars in cannabinoid research to do so if it could potentially save lives?


Of course "we" do. That is the other side of this big business coin. But the research doesn't come without profit. The research will only be to that end.


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## Dan Kone (Sep 21, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> Of course "we" do. That is the other side of this big business coin. But the research doesn't come without profit. The research will only be to that end.


Sure. But research doesn't always lead to the intended objective. If they started to allow large corporations to do serious large scale medical research on cannabis, there's no telling what they'll find.


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## 1gamma45 (Sep 21, 2010)

No The U.S. is bad for small business. The U.S. is run by lobbiest and big business. Pot candy condoms or chew toys. Anything that will put a dent as a small business in big business is bad.


Wake the fuck up and understand this is what the Gov. is willing to give if you dont take it your spitting in thier face and you will likely never in your lifetime see anything close to this again. Voteing no on Prop 19 is cuting your own throat and if your too blinded by the preaching of a dead man to see it then your enjoy your PROHIBITION.

Is prop 19 perfect no. Is anything in the U.S. hell no. Stop tring to have your cake and eat it too. Unless your ready to lead the next 1776 STFU and vote yes cause your points a retarded as compaired to what your losing.


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## mistaphuck (Sep 21, 2010)

1gamma45 said:


> No The U.S. is bad for small business. The U.S. is run by lobbiest and big business. Pot candy condoms or chew toys. Anything that will put a dent as a small business in big business is bad.
> 
> 
> Wake the fuck up and understand this is what the Gov. is willing to give if you dont take it your spitting in thier face and you will likely never in your lifetime see anything close to this again. Voteing no on Prop 19 is cuting your own throat and if your too blinded by the preaching of a dead man to see it then your enjoy your PROHIBITION.
> ...



ok your right for the most part, but where you say "Unless your ready to lead the next 1776 STFU" I have to laugh, has the year of independence become just another numeral reference date like 9/11? and on a side not I've always hated the "have you cake and eat it too" saying. wtf are you supposed to do with cake, look at it?


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## miteubhi? (Sep 21, 2010)

I have yet to see anyone post anything on why industrial hemp is nowhere to be found in this whole proposal.

Charging the same taxes on this would be facist. 

Another reason to vote no.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 21, 2010)

miteubhi? said:


> Charging the same taxes on this would be facist.


Huh? Not sure what that means. And facism...come on buddy, let's keep this conversation intelligent. You must be one of the 20% that thinks Obama is a secret Muslim too...

The tax system is going to vary by city and county, much like the current 215 restrictions...what do you mean by this statement?


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## Matt Rize (Sep 21, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> Sure. But research doesn't always lead to the intended objective. If they started to allow large corporations to do serious large scale medical research on cannabis, there's no telling what they'll find.


I'll tell you what big business will find (the cig companies for sure, but not the drug companies)...a way to insert PM resistant genes, and ways to get bigger yields for cheaper. The true medical research will come about by either a gov't organization (because the US already holds the patent on Cannabinoids as medicine) or from the collegiate world. Either way, the research needs to happen.


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## miteubhi? (Sep 21, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> Huh? Not sure what that means. And facism...come on buddy, let's keep this conversation intelligent. You must be one of the 20% that thinks Obama is a secret Muslim too...
> 
> The tax system is going to vary by city and county, much like the current 215 restrictions...what do you mean by this statement?


Hemp retard. Charging the same taxes on HEMP. Can you fucking read?


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## Matt Rize (Sep 21, 2010)

miteubhi? said:


> Hemp retard. Charging the same taxes on HEMP. Can you fucking read?


You need to learn to write correctly. And your whole point about charging the same taxes is baseless. The taxes will be different in each county, and those rates are yet to be determined. Are you ill-informed or just an idiot?


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## swishatwista (Sep 21, 2010)

Very well said, with everybody sayin the same thing, couldn't we rap this shit up, i mean shit it is our government, you'd think we'd have at least a little say in the functions of our nation, besides it fucking us every way they can, i see just a little bit of a choke hold lol, little bit. I say, the more people that smoke weed, the better -in the broad sense, dont be gettin all the neighbor kids fuckin high, let em ride their bikes or run around or whatever they wanna do. And to the guy that said that prop 19 will lead to industrial research on canabinoid study to save lives, son light up a joint, there's your research, why scope the shit out of canabis when that shit is already sittin on your kitchen table, you dont gotta research banana's to gain the vitimins it contains, you just eat that shit to give you vitimins, easy as that, then if someone wants to come up to me and tell me its got vitimin D, i'd be like, good deal. Its like that guy said on here, just put that shit in the air, and done deal.

"I have yet to see anyone post anything on why industrial hemp is nowhere to be found in this whole proposal." I read all about that a year or so ago, good job to bring it up. Indust. hemp will take a while to get established, that is one of those main things that is sure to come around, just not tommorow, as oposed to canabis sativa . It has a high start up cost because its a hardy plant that needs special equipment to harvest into different types of plant material coming off hemp-different strands of fibers, which make different things, -about 5,000 differnt uses, and counting. We would still have to cut out the current places in the market that would be replaced by hemp, which shouldn't be too hard considering it would mean the stopping of cutting down rainforest for wood, -or anywhere else as a certain matter of fact!!, That means the stopping of depletion of the Earth, almost intirely, because our dependence on oil is just about a thing of the past, after we can unseat the corrupt chairs of our government, which is waaay too many people, like..all of em.
And hemp is really effective in deleaching the soil of contaminated waste,-pestisides,herbasides, and any other chemical in feilds, or contaminated places in general. And hemp does not require any chemical to go because of its hardy, benefitial nature. You'd think our tax dollars would go into the production of the hemp industry, or anything really, rather than being sucked away and lined in pockets and used against us, I'm just sayin its about time we stood up, and take some action, even those that are sittin comfortable smokin legal ass weed, can't you see the condition of our State, compassion needs to be sittin shotgun while we drive this mother fucker some where. lets do it


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## Matt Rize (Sep 21, 2010)

swishatwista said:


> And to the guy that said that prop 19 will lead to industrial research on canabinoid study to save lives, son light up a joint, there's your research.


That's funny  BUT the research is important for a larger reason. Modern Cannabis research will change the world's mind on Cannabis as a medicine. The world will no longer be able to label Cannabis as a schedule 1 drug. Decrim will follow, and then tax/regulation. True legalization is a "pipe dream", if you will. This is as good as it gets.


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## miteubhi? (Sep 21, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> You need to learn to write correctly. And your whole point about charging the same taxes is baseless. The taxes will be different in each county, and those rates are yet to be determined. Are you ill-informed or just an idiot?


No dipshit, cannabis is cannabis as far as the U.S. is concerned. In counties? I am talking different plants with different uses being taxed the same.

Or does your puny brain lack the cognitive capacity to comprehend that.

You do realize growing hemp is illegal?


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## Matt Rize (Sep 21, 2010)

miteubhi? said:


> No dipshit, cannabis is cannabis as far as the U.S. is concerned. In counties? I am talking different plants with different uses being taxed the same.
> 
> Or does your puny brain lack the cognitive capacity to comprehend that.


You are funny, and your attacks show how weak you really are. And you show how ill-informed you really are. Cannabis (caplitalized because it is a genus) is Cannabis, YES. And prop 19 allows for each county/city to regulate/tax Cannabis as they see fit. I don't see how this does not allow for some counties to encourage the agricultural development of hemp. Much like current dispensaries, hemp will exist where it is wanted by the community.

Hater counties will tax the shit out of hemp, and non-hater counties will encourage hemp's development. This is really not that difficult to comprehend. Not every county will fail to see the difference between medicine and fiber production.


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## redivider (Sep 21, 2010)

stop the insults or fdd will lock this thread and i'm gonna have nothing to laugh at.

Marijuana decriminalization/legalization is not on the ballot because stoner's want to smoke. it's not on the ballot to increase smoker's rights. it's not on the ballot to be fair.

it's on the ballot because california is in deep debt, and they're betting that taxing marijuana will help eliminate the deficit.

if you vote against it because it's not perfect, then you cannot complain the law is unfair if you get thrown in jail for weed, nor can you argue about how unfair current law is, because by voting NO, you're voting yes for the status quo.

the status quo says you're a worthless criminal, and you deserve to be locked in a cage like an animal at a zoo. only animals at the zoo get visitors all day. you'd only get 20 minutes per day.


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## Dan Kone (Sep 21, 2010)

miteubhi? said:


> I have yet to see anyone post anything on why industrial hemp is nowhere to be found in this whole proposal.
> 
> Charging the same taxes on this would be facist.
> 
> Another reason to vote no.


Industrial hemp does become legal under prop 19. That isn't a reason to vote no. At least not a good one. 

Do you understand how retarded it is to vote against legalization over some minor details?


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## Dan Kone (Sep 21, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> Are you ill-informed or just an idiot?


Intentionally ignorant is more accurate. He's not alone. You've got to take into consideration that a lot of people on these forums have their own personal financial reasons for supporting prohibition and they aren't going to come out and admit that.


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## mistaphuck (Sep 21, 2010)

were the only country that doesn't utilize hemp on a large scale basis .. we fail


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## veggiegardener (Sep 22, 2010)

I'm not going to vote for a law thar limits my ability to provide meds for my wife.

Prop 19 will do that.

*VOTE NO!*


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## Needofweed (Sep 22, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> Intentionally ignorant is more accurate. He's not alone. You've got to take into consideration that a lot of people on these forums have their own personal financial reasons for supporting prohibition and they aren't going to come out and admit that.


Well Ive admitted my reson.But you guys called me stupid and said 19 will only boots business for hydro supply shops._ dont understand how,_ if 19 passes all the big coporate marijuana growers will put the small growers out of business,I mean how many people actually grow tomatoes indoors.Hydro supply shops make money off selling complete grow ops for the indoor grower.who the hell is going to invest thousands of dollors of money and countless hours of work if theres no money to be made in return. And yes I am supporting the profits of the lettle guy,if you havent notice Im against big business.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 22, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> I'm not going to vote for a law thar limits my ability to provide meds for my wife.
> Prop 19 will do that.[/B]


I call BS. If your wife has her medical, and you are her caretaker, then prop 19 in no way limits your garden. 215 is still real, so is sb 420. You/her actual garden limits will still depend on your physician's rec. For the average 150 pound person, most doctors suggest (aka testify in court) that a 10x10 is needed to fulfill their CBD requirements.


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## Needofweed (Sep 22, 2010)

Well Ive admitted my reson.But you guys called me stupid and said 19 will only boots business for hydro supply shops._ dont understand how,_ if 19 passes all the big coporate marijuana growers will put the small growers out of business,I mean how many people actually grow tomatoes indoors.Hydro supply shops make money off selling complete grow ops for the indoor grower.who the hell is going to invest thousands of dollors of money and countless hours of work if theres no money to be made in return. And yes I am supporting the profits of the lettle guy,if you havent notice Im against big business.


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## Dan Kone (Sep 22, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> if 19 passes all the big coporate marijuana growers will put the small growers out of business,


How do you not understand that there are large grows all over California now and have been for 40 years? A few large grows doesn't put all the small growers out of business. The bud market in Cali is huge. 

If large grows were going to put all the small growers out of business that would have already happened. Are you really so ignorant to what is going on that you don't think there are large warehouse/greenhouse grows all over California right now?


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## Matt Rize (Sep 22, 2010)

Again: We deserve the option to legitimize. We are not criminals (well, some of us, many actually are living highly illegal lifestyles and are hiding under 215 and 420 as fake co-ops.).

Most Cali Cannabis will go where it has always gone...to the black market and out of Cali. Big business can't take part in that market, and the price will stay the same for the majority of current growers. Let's not pretend that Cali herb stays in Cali. The dispensary's demand pales in comparison to rest of the country's demand, and they sure love that Cali ganja in the other states . 

What is going to be effed up, as needofweed brings up, is the commercial production of Cannabis in Cali by nefarious corporations. Well, that 'bomba clat' Cannabis will be stuck in Cali, and many of us will not buy it. A strong movement for local organic small farmed Cannabis, from within the Californian Cannabis community, is what we need. Not to stop this tax/regulate proposition. Sure, poor people will buy Phillip Morris's pre-rolled joints because they will be cheap in comparison to some local organics. But most everyone who smokes herb wants to smoke high grade, even those who buy from the lower quality selections at dispensaries. 

Yes, the wording sucks in 19. The Jack H initiative is more of something I can fully support. But the 2012 Jack H initiative has about zero chance, so let's work with what we've got. 19 was written to pass this year. Not in two years, or in ten. NOW. Let's lead the way. Of course 19 sucks on the ground here in California, but what about the rest of the world? Are we that selfish? Big Business is a can of worms, but we will set the stage for the rest of the world to consider steps in the right direction. I hate to admit it, but big business has a right to exist, even in the canna-world, unfortunately. I know for a fact that small farmed products will always fetch top dollar and be in high demand. Phillip morris will never be able to do what I do. NEVER. 

So for the poor people, the one's who can't buy a 215 rec, pass this initiative. 
Or do it for the international headlines "California Legalized Pot". And the millions of people who have new ideas planted in their heads when they hear an American state legalized ganja (even though we just taxed and regulated it).


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## Matt Rize (Sep 22, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> How do you not understand that there are large grows all over California now and have been for 40 years? A few large grows doesn't put all the small growers out of business. The bud market in Cali is huge.
> 
> If large grows were going to put all the small growers out of business that would have already happened. Are you really so ignorant to what is going on that you don't think there are large warehouse/greenhouse grows all over California right now?


YES. The boutique market will never go away. Snoop will alway want the very best in the world, same with the rest of the canna-nation. Look at the success of local farmer's markets here in Cali. It is all about quality, and you can charge whatever you want. That is our future.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 22, 2010)

For those who believe that prop 19 will limit their ability to provide medicine for themselves/loved ones: You have a valid concern. The wording is so poor in this proposition that we do not really know how that will play out, and there will most likely be different taxes/regulations depending on where you live in Cali. But if you have a solid doctor's rec, yeah Medicann is BS, I mean your actual physician, then you will have no worries. They got you covered under 215/420. 19 does not erase the personal rec you get from your doctor for you and your condition.

But no matter what happens, this is a step in the right direction. No one can say for certain how this will affect us on the individual level, we each have our own stake in this. Do it for the world, they will think we "legalized it", even though that is the biggest pipe dream ever.


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## redivider (Sep 22, 2010)

let's stop assuming the worst is going to happen. truth is the pot is grown indoors or out depending on the need of the grower.

saying that this is bad because it will put hydro stores out of business is bullshit. the hydro stores that adjust to fluctuations in demand will stay in business. those that do not may very well go out of business whether or not the law passes. good business management, not the law, will decide what stores make it.

it's the same line of reasoning that says it's bad because it puts small growers vs. large corporate grows. once again: the growers who better adjust their operation to the changing environment will succeed. those that don't will fail. it does not have anything to do with the size of the grow operation. those that fail are the ones growing weed in a wasteful manner, which in turn costs them more, bringing down their bottom line. competition will improve quality and the efficiency with which weed is grown.

assuming every single grower will stop buying bulbs to grow outside is a falsehood, an assumption not backed up by any facts. i know this because there's no case study on weed being decriminalized in such a fashion in the United States, or anywhere else in the world for that matter. 

small growers will go out of business because of commercial growers, that's also an assumption not backed up by any facts. 

the netherlands doesn't count because technically, growing weed is illegal in the Netherlands. buying and selling weed is _tolerated_. California is looking to completely legalize production, possesion, and consumption of marijuana. that is unprecedented.

if your a grower and you feel threatened because of this law. it's not the law. it's your poor business sense. only the fact that weed is an illegal product with limited supply has kept you in business. you know that as soon as it's legal, and all those business saavvyy entrepeneurs 'get on it' you'll be screwed. and you better believe entrepeneurs are 'getting on it'. i know about a dozen middle-aged, well to do men, who are ready to pump little over $1.5 million into this gold rush. and that's just the tip of the iceberg. get ready. it's going to be fun.


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## Needofweed (Sep 22, 2010)

man if yor going to quote me quote me in my entirety,why you insist on dissecting my replies I dont know?


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## Needofweed (Sep 22, 2010)

Growing marijuana outdoors is simple in California. The anticipated legalization of marijuana - Prop 19 on the November ballot - is already being greeted with proposals for pot factory farms. Now small growers cry foul; but what did they think would happen?

It Started with Medical marijuana

Getting legal Mary Jane is nothing new in the Golden State. The "American Medical marijuana Association" devotes itself to protecting patients' rights and access to prescribed dope. They also work to protect patients who choose to smoke medically sanctioned weed from far-reaching consequences. A case in point is the recent news that smoking medical marijuana led to the firing of a Wal-Mart employee.

Then Came a Push for the Blanket Legalization of marijuana

Championed in 2009 by San Francisco Democrat Tom Ammiano, the idea never really went away. As a result, California voters have the option of voting for the legalization of marijuana on the November ballot in the form of Proposition 19. Perfectly summarized by AOL News, Prop 19 proposes to make the private possession of weed (up to one ounce) legal for adults over 21 years of age. It would also turn dope into a taxable crop.

Enter the Pot Factory Farm

A savvy Oakland business entrepreneur is getting ready ahead of the anticipated legalization of marijuana. Seeking to carve out a sizable niche of the market, the L.A. Times reports that the owner of the already incorporated AgraMed proposes to take Mary Jane production into the big leagues.

The entrepreneur has outlined plans to "manufacture growing equipment, bake marijuana edibles in a 10,000-square-foot kitchen and use two football fields of space to grow about *58 pounds of marijuana every day*." The irresistible hook in this scenario is the influx of ready cash and jobs: 371 workers would staff the plant, and a projected $1.5 million in annual tax payments would make it into Oakland's coffers.

Small Time Dope Growers are Outraged

Although in the past the electorate was sold on the idea of medical marijuana as a doctor-patient decision and on the mushrooming number of small-time dispensaries in Los Angeles as necessary for the good of needy patients, these same marijuana activists are now crying foul. It appears that it is no longer really just about the patient and ready availability of the drug, but also about cold, hard cash.

With pot factory farming likely to do to smalltime growers what Costco and Wal-Mart have done to mom-and-pop grocery stores and Ace Hardware, detractors - as outlined in the New York Times - ask why this proposal should be considered in the first place. Small grower representatives are asking to "bring these citizen farmers out of the shadows and into the light and give them a role in this new industry."

It is true that the mom-and-pop medical marijuana growers are the backbone of the legalization effort. It is also true that growing marijuana outdoors is a simple task in California, with little need for pot factory farming.

All that said, the activists who worked so tirelessly on the legalization of marijuana may have overlooked just one tiny fact surrounding the purple haze: Once dope becomes legal, it also becomes big business.



*Did you really think it was about legalization??? It is about taxation and monopoly!* 

(Taken from GanjaAl)​


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## Needofweed (Sep 22, 2010)

And if you still think little growers wont go under well heres *Allen St. Pierre* the Executive Director NORML saying it himself

(skip to 2:30 in the video where he comes on) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGWSdrU31B0


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## redivider (Sep 22, 2010)

the measure is supposed to be a cost savings/revenue generating move for the state. should weed be taxed? i don't know. but that's why weed may become legal, because it's gonna make the state money.

and life in america is about monopoly. it's not just weed, don't think weed is getting any preferential treatment. weed shouldn't get any preferential treatment, because it will be a legal product. and as such a market will develop.


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## Needofweed (Sep 22, 2010)

not if I vote no and it doesnt pass


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## Dan Kone (Sep 22, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> YES. The boutique market will never go away. Snoop will alway want the very best in the world, same with the rest of the canna-nation. Look at the success of local farmer's markets here in Cali. It is all about quality, and you can charge whatever you want. That is our future.


The thing that makes bud different from things like beer is that the high end bud market makes up the majority of sales. The top selling buds at clubs are always the top shelfs. Sure, there are micro brews, but the bud market revolves around the small boutique grows. This has nothing to do with lack of mass produced cheap bud. That shit is everywhere and it always has been. It just doesn't sell as well. There is nothing about prop 19 that will change what type of bud people want to buy.


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## Needofweed (Sep 22, 2010)

redivider said:


> the measure is supposed to be a cost savings/revenue generating move for the state. should weed be taxed? i don't know. but that's why weed may become legal, because it's gonna make the state money.
> 
> and life in america is about monopoly. it's not just weed, don't think weed is getting any preferential treatment. weed shouldn't get any preferential treatment, because it will be a legal product. and as such a market will develop.


yeah it supposed to make the state 1.4 billion dollors a year but thats taxing todays maket price at an average of 300 dollors an oz.
but they say an oz. will drop to 30 dollors so thats a 90% drop in price witch means a 90% drop in proposed tax revanue so 1.4 billion realy means 140 million  thats a 1,260,000,000 (One billion two hundered million) dollor down fall).Thats going to get my state out of a 9 billion dollor hole?Dont twist me up I do want legalization butnot the way prop 19 says it,Im not going to vote for it just cause it allows me to smoke mj. I do got standers and im not some pothead junky that will do anything just to get hi with government approval.You all can get as mad as you want but like I said before Ill see you at the polls.


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## Needofweed (Sep 22, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> The thing that makes bud different from things like beer is that the high end bud market makes up the majority of sales. The top selling buds at clubs are always the top shelfs. Sure, there are micro brews, but the bud market revolves around the small boutique grows. This has nothing to do with lack of mass produced cheap bud. That shit is everywhere and it always has been. It just doesn't sell as well. There is nothing about prop 19 that will change what type of bud people want to buy.


So you dont believe what *Allen St. Pierre* is saying in the video?
Cause he flatout says the mom&pop growers will go out of business.


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## mistaphuck (Sep 22, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> So you dont believe what *Allen St. Pierre* is saying in the video?
> Cause he flatout says the mom&pop growers will go out of business.


mom&pop anything will always be in danger of going under. even if you got every mofo in cali to vote no it wouldn't make a difference


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## redivider (Sep 22, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> So you dont believe what *Allen St. Pierre* is saying in the video?
> Cause he flatout says the mom&pop growers will go out of business.


is he an economist?? is he a business man? or is he an activist?? 

as much as I love NORML, a lot of times they should just stick to what they know, THE LAW. NORML also has trouble endorsing ideas that are not originated within it's ranks, or ideas it considers to be 'imperfect'. NORML is being this way with prop 19 because they can't take full credit for it.

what that man is saying is an ASSUMPTION. he cannot back it up with any EVIDENCE. it's what he _thinks_ is going to happen.

i think i'm gonna fly if i jump out of a building. the facts say otherwise though.

could this law drive small growers out of business?? absolutely. but the growers that go out of business are the ones not doing it efficiently enough to compete in the market. 

and if you vote no on Prop 19 your not stopping big business from having interest in the 30+ billion dollar marijuana trade. that's not gonna happen with so much money involved. you can forget about it. 

if you vote no to stop big business, this is going to hurt:

MJ's illegal status in the US is partly lobbied by the alcohol, tobacco, and pharmaceutical industries. big pharma stands the most to loose, the numbers are a trade secret, but it's estimated that big pharma has spent around 200 million or so developing synthetic THC, or Marinol, under the assumption that the US will be stupid enough to keep MJ illegal, while selling it's active ingredient on shelves. this way the only, I REPEAT, ONLY source of LEGAL THC would be through big pharma.

so take that. you're voting no on prop 19 to stop big business. big pharma wants you to think that way. that way they, not you or other growers, can be the ONLY suppliers of legal THC.

IRONY!


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## Needofweed (Sep 22, 2010)

Well I dont realy care for popping pill or eating mj brownies or icecream for that matter but I do love the way GDPurp and Hindkush tast when Im blowing a fats ass rip out of my lungs.


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## Dan Kone (Sep 22, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> So you dont believe what *Allen St. Pierre* is saying in the video?
> Cause he flatout says the mom&pop growers will go out of business.


Then, no I don't believe him at all. It defies common sense to say that. If big grows put small growers out of business then how come they aren't out of business now? There is nothing new about large scale growing in California.


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## Dan Kone (Sep 22, 2010)

redivider said:


> i
> 
> MJ's illegal status in the US is partly lobbied by the alcohol, tobacco, and pharmaceutical industries. big pharma stands the most to loose,


Surprisingly, the group that has paid the most money to oppose legalization is none of the above. It's the prison guards union. Legalization = out of a job for them.


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## Dan Kone (Sep 22, 2010)

redivider said:


> so take that. you're voting no on prop 19 to stop big business. big pharma wants you to think that way. that way they, not you or other growers, can be the ONLY suppliers of legal THC.
> 
> IRONY!


Big pharma, tobacco, alcohol, prison guards, the DEA, the majority of police officers, and the logging industry all support prohibition because it's a cash cow for all of them. And people are willing to side with them because they are afraid of legal cannabis businesses. 

Irony indeed.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 22, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> Well I dont realy care for popping pill or eating mj brownies or icecream for that matter but I do love the way GDPurp and Hindkush tast when Im blowing a fats ass rip out of my lungs.


That's pretty selfish bro. What about the people who do take Cannabis orally or as tincture. Open your mind to the other ways of medicating. In fact, the different forms of ingestion (smoke, vapor, baked edible, raw edible, tincture, transdermal oil, suppository) all have different affects that may help different needs. 

Remember, big business outlawed Cannabis in the first place.


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## Dan Kone (Sep 22, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> That's pretty selfish bro. What about the people who do take Cannabis orally or as tincture. Open your mind to the other ways of medicating. In fact, the different forms of ingestion (smoke, vapor, baked edible, raw edible, tincture, transdermal oil, suppository) all have different affects that may help different needs.
> 
> Remember, big business outlawed Cannabis in the first place.


big business and profits are what is keeping it illegal now. 

There really are worse things in the world than big cannabis businesses. I think we can all agree that big lumber corporations logging all those norcal redwoods are worse. How many of those tree's will be saved by prop 19 legalizing hemp production? A frequently used statistic is that you can make 4x as much paper from an acre of hemp than an acre of trees per year. 

So every acre of bud grown you're saving 4 acres of natural California forest. Why isn't that part of the discussion when talking about all of this?

I guess it's hard to point to Richard Lee as an arch villain if he's 2 story 23 acre grow ends up saving over 150 acres of forest per year from logging. People look at every negative byproduct at prop 19. But there are some big positives too that aren't even being discussed.


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## Needofweed (Sep 22, 2010)

selfish? wtf are you talking about. Now I cant even deside how I want to use mj without being selfish. I dont give a rats ass how anyone use desides to use mj people can inject it if they found a way,what ever get you hi I guess.I was refering to redividar or whay ever his name is in thread #96 where he talks about big pharma making thc pills.


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## Needofweed (Sep 22, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> That's pretty selfish bro. What about the people who do take Cannabis orally or as tincture. Open your mind to the other ways of medicating. In fact, the different forms of ingestion (smoke, vapor, baked edible, raw edible, tincture, transdermal oil, suppository) all have different affects that may help different needs.
> 
> Remember, big business outlawed Cannabis in the first place.


Yeah big business outlawed Cannabis in the first place, so lets all support them.
And another thing is I dont smoke as a medicen not saying it not right but I smoke for fun and yes I do got my 215 card.Anyone can get them for any reason at all.Every one here thats voting yes on prop19 is just trying to get rich after it passes(there drug dealers now but if 19 passes and you do it legaly, what are you then.) If you realy wanted to get hi without worry of the law you would have caughed up the $60 for your card like every one els did because Prop215 and sb420 are way better then prop19 will ever be anyways.


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## Needofweed (Sep 23, 2010)

Prop 19 is just another way for the government to take control of cannabis, cause those motherfuckers on capital hill over in sac know damn well that shit is getting out of control with prop215 and sb420 so they tell themselfs "let make some money of these potheads"How the fuck is the state going to say mj is medican and tax it at the same time.why not tax oxycontin then legalize it for recreatinal use?Medican is medican and it should not be tax in any way or form right?
Quit being cheap and go get your cards.Or are you just thinking of all the $$$$$$$$$ youll make after it legal.


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## bassinmatt4 (Sep 23, 2010)

since cities and counties will be able to regulate and tax cannabis as they see fit, How will your city deal with the prop when it passes? Mine will ban it completely. Please inform yourself before heading to the ballot box. I like my medical recommendation and would like to perserve my current prop 215 rights. Read the entire prop 19 and see for yourself. People say it will not effect prop 215, but why in the script of the prop cleary state that it would provide safer access for medical marijuana? I like my cannabis to be medicinal. I do not want to get it from Richard Lee and the few other big business that will be "lucky" enough to be chosen as one of the few growers of cannabis. I like to know what goes into my bud! Govenment putting shit in your weed......... Vote NO!!!! Educate yourself http://votetaxcannabis2010.blogspot.com/2010/07/why-pro-pot-activists-oppose-2010-tax.html


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## Dan Kone (Sep 23, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> Prop 19 is just another way for the government to take control of cannabis,


No dude. It's not. Right now we prohibition which is the highest level of government control. Prop 19 forces government to give up some of that control. You have no idea what you're talking about.


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## Needofweed (Sep 23, 2010)

Ok out of all I wrote thats all you got to quote.Plus im not prohibited to smoke at all.
Go get rich of prop 19 thats the only reason your voting for it anyways


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## redivider (Sep 23, 2010)

i did read the law. i can get you a copy. i don't live in california anyways. i'm just interested in all the bs being spread. because it's just that, BS.

it does not have ANYTHING to do with medicinal marijuana boy. the sentence you are reading is found in the PURPOSE section of the law document. the word medical is only found two times, both in the PURPOSE section of the law. read ahead:

the PURPOSE and INTENT sections are meant to give JUDGES an idea of the spirit of the law. it does not include the text of the law itself. 

let's look at the two times medical appears in the prop:

Purpose #6: Provide easier, safer access for patients who need cannabis for medical purposes. 

so, it does not say that it's purpose is to make access for patients any harder. any provision within the law tha would contradict this purpose, would make the law contradictory to itself, redundant, and would not be put up for a vote.

PURPOSE 12: Make cannabis available for scientific, medical, industrial and research purposes.

once again. any provision within the law that goes against this purpose makes the law contradictory to itself, and it would not have gotten to this level. you know, the ballot.

if i wasn't clear, the actual LAW part of this, and EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF LEGISLATION YOU EVER READ, starts out something like:

Article 23 of Chapter 2 of Division IV of the Health code, commencing in Article 1200 added to read:

Article 1200- Blah BLah Blah.

The actual law portion of any law/bill/proposition clearly states what volume/chapter/article/division/part/ of wherever the law is to be written, and that it starts at article XXXX reading as follows.... something like that.

in the case of prop 19, the changes in law that will occur are introduced like this:

Article 5 of Chapter 5 of Division 10 of the Health and Safety Code, commencing with section 11300 is added to read: 

the changes in law that will occur start with the following line. all those lines before it?? it's the findings, purpose, intent.... but not the law itself......


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## Needofweed (Sep 23, 2010)

prop 19 is written like crap, its open to too much debate and leaves to much up to the imagination.
You actual think that there can be two different set of laws on the same subject.one will out wiegh the other and the government will always side with the laws that make them the most money.


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## spandy (Sep 23, 2010)

Preaching to the choir


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## redivider (Sep 23, 2010)

what are you talking about is written like crap??

you guys don't even know how to interpret a legal document. you didn't even know how to distinguish between the changes in law, and the purpose. you thought it was all one thing..

how can you form an opinion about how the law is written if you can't understand what it says??


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## Needofweed (Sep 23, 2010)

How are you going to tell me that I dont understand the prop. Ive read it and I can say that it was written for two types of people (1)people that are looking to get filthly rich if it passes and (2) pothead junkies that dont have or dont wont the prop 215 and sb 420 rights.

Whats going to happen if this bill passes and I go get my card renewed and the doctor tells me to go buy my medical mj at a licenced mj seller or just grow your own in the 25 square ft. plot thats provide buy prop 19 .Why would Dr. still write prescriptoin if people can just go get it over-the-counter or grow there own legaly.How often do you see Dr. writing scrips for medican that you can buy over the counter and or grow\make youslef.

So no more scrips, no more card holders, no more collective, no more prop 215 or sb 420, no more compitition for Big Corprate Cannabis.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 23, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> ...So no more scrips, no more card holders, no more collective, no more prop 215 or sb 420, no more compitition for Big Corprate Cannabis.


Just to clarify: correct me if I have misunderstood. You believe habitual Cannabis users to be junkies. And you would be in favor or repealing 215 & 420. You are against the formation of collectives, and I'm assuming just the collectives that operate dispensaries and/or delivery services. Even though most dispensaries are small businesses disguised as non-profit organizations. You are also against my doctor writing on paper that I should be using Cannabis for it's therapeutic attributes. Is that accurate?

You have not said anything about co-ops, another crucial part of 215/420.


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## Needofweed (Sep 24, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> Just to clarify: correct me if I have misunderstood. You believe habitual Cannabis users to be junkies. And you would be in favor or repealing 215 & 420. You are against the formation of collectives, and I'm assuming just the collectives that operate dispensaries and/or delivery services. Even though most dispensaries are small businesses disguised as non-profit organizations. You are also against my doctor writing on paper that I should be using Cannabis for it's therapeutic attributes. Is that accurate?
> 
> You have not said anything about co-ops, another crucial part of 215/420.


Your misunderstood so consider yourself corrected. 
No im not against any of what you saying.Im agianst prop 19 because it underminds current mj rights provided by prop215 and sb420.

So pleace stop putting words in my mouth.All I hear is, "People voteing no are just worried about there profits"or "people voting no are drug dealers.So im guessing that people voting yes are drug addicts and or would-be mj entrepreneurs?

One other thing,dont sell youself short if you smoke weed and are a habitual smoker
then more then likely your probably addicted wich would infact make a person a drug addict.
If Im a acoholic it dont matter if I drink wisky or bud light im still a acoholic.
Or should there be a whole new name for people addicted to mj. Lets say cannaholics.

My name is Needforweed and Im a cannaholic.


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## mrFancyPlants (Sep 24, 2010)

Ya know, this thread and all the other bullshit threads like it are 'tl;dr'. It's the same shit over and over again - some tool like you watches a youtube video and thinks they've discovered some secret that everyone else in the legalization movement has missed. Grow the fuck up. Read what real lawyers have said. Use google. Listen to trustworthy organizations like NORML. 

You read the bill? Big fucking deal. I read the bill from start to finish. You're a *tool*. A *tool* of the entrenched cannabusiness industry. I hope you appreciate that - you're being used to spread lies that hurt people. You're being *used* to prop up someone's failed business model. 

YOU. ARE. A. TOOL.


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## Needofweed (Sep 24, 2010)

Fuck NORML
and fuck YOU AND PROP19
I could give a fuck what you or any other motherfuck "lawyer" or fuckin politician got to say.I read the prop itself and it fucking suck so fuck off.

See you at the polls bitch.


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## Needofweed (Sep 24, 2010)

You no stander having give you left nut if you had one to smoke weed legaly bitch.


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## vertise (Sep 24, 2010)

Everyone should vote yes.


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## vertise (Sep 24, 2010)

People who do not want it legal based on the argument it will hurt small business are just using a clever way to say I grow weed illegaly and make money from it. It is not bad for small business at all. In fact it will increase jobs, increase tourism, increase everything that goes into having it legal. It has become well known not only in this country but throughout the world that CA is a smokers paradise. Also those nay sayers who think it will affect medicinal marijuana are wrong. People who created prop 215 have stated that prop 19 will have no affect on medicinal marijuana.


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## vertise (Sep 24, 2010)

many lawyers, doctor's, even dispensaries, have stated that prop 215 will not be affected. It is illegal to prevent someone from receiving proper amounts of medication when given a doctors recommendation. The size of your garden will NOT be affected by the 25 foot minimum regulation. If your doctors recommends more you can grow more EVEN under prop 19. It has zero affect on medicinal marijuana.


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## vertise (Sep 24, 2010)

A major thing that people also seem to not realize is they are not planning on taxing the shit out of home growers. They may require tax in the form of a permit which would prob be 500-1000 a year. A permit would prob state something like the garden is of legal size ect ect. Now i used to spend well over 1000 dollars a year when buying from shady ass people. The reason i say tax would be 500-1000 is because it is practicle. I see people on this forum saying tax will be 60,000-100,000 a year for the individual grower. That is just ridiculous. Who would pay that? No one, however you collect 1,000 bucks from 1,000,000 people thats 1,000,000,000 right there. Also taxes will be collected from the money spent via tourists, and the casual smoker who will spend the 3 dollars in tax every weekend for a 20 dollar gram. Medicinal patients will not be affected because there medicinal permit, is different the the potential Recreational permit. They do not overlap because the medicinal grower and recreational grower have nothing to do with each other. Another reason why the government will NOT TAX the hell out of it is they will save billions in expenses dealing with the prosecution of marijuana users.


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## vertise (Sep 24, 2010)

*




*

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-..._b_735846.html

Prop 19 Would Help -- Not Hurt -- Medical [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana Patients[/URL] 

Are they misinformed or deliberately lying? I don't know anymore.
A group of medical marijuana dispensaries organized as the California Cannabis Association has come out against Prop 19, California's "Tax and Regulate Cannabis" initiative to legalize marijuana.
The coalition claims that Prop 19's provisions giving local jurisdictions the power to regulate cannabis sales, including the right to choose whether to allow commercial or other outlets, would enable them to prohibit the sale of medical marijuana to patients, something that under California they currently can't do. In the words of Cascade Wellness Center head Amir Daliri, quoted in the Associated Press, "The people who would be most affected are the sick, the elderly - patients who cannot grow their own and cannot travel to pick up a prescription."





The claim is completely false. As attorney J. David Nick explained in a widely disseminated legal analysis exhorting people to get on board and support the initiative, section 2B of the Prop 19 text explicitly guards against that: Section 2B presents the controlling and relevant purposes for understanding what Prop. 19 can and cannot do. This section EXPRESSLY excludes the reach of Prop. 19 from the CUA and MMP. Sections 2B (7 &  specifically state that the purpose of this initiative is to give municipalities total and complete control over the commercial sales of marijuana "EXCEPT as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9."​Even without that protection, Nick further explains, it would be virtually impossible for the courts to interpret Prop 19 as allowing cities or counties to gut the state medical marijuana law, because of the rules of statutory construction: Although extrinsic materials (such as legislative committee memos or voter pamphlet arguments) may not be resorted to when the legislative language is clear, courts may never ignore the purpose of the legislation. Every interpretation a court gives a statute must be consistent with the purpose of the legislation. This is why statutes have long "preambles" which explicitly state the purposes of the legislation.​Unfortunately, the press has largely given the group a pass. In the press mentions I could find of the story, LA Weekly, Capital Public Radio, KTVU and the aforementioned AP piece, campaign spokeswoman Dale Sky Jones is quoted making the opposite claim, that the initiative actually would clarify and improve protections for medical marijuana patients. But that important information appears toward the end of the articles, and the casual reader is left with the impression simply that different activists are saying different things, not necessarily knowing what to believe. I think the media professionals covering this should have taken the extra few moments needed to glance at the initiative text, or better yet spoken with a qualified attorney or legal analyst about it. They then could have verified that the campaign quotes were right and the opposition's wrong, and reflected that in their reporting.
Fortunately, only some medical marijuana people are so shortsighted as to oppose this historic and important measure. Harborside Health Center in Oakland, and the Berkeley Patients Group are among the top quality groups lending their support to Prop 19. But it's still worth asking, why are some other medical marijuana providers opposing it?
Famed Canadian Marc Emery, from his US prison cell offered the obvious explanation: money. I've been charitable about this in saying that there's a little more to it than that. The medical marijuana providers have by and large created a good and wholesome environment, bringing dollars in for sure, but providing high-quality, compassionate services for their clientele. They've risked a lot to do it -- Daliri's center is among those to suffer raids on their operations -- and they don't want to see the world they've brought into being fall into nothingness in the face of the hugely increased competition that legalization of marijuana for anyone will surely bring. I happen to think that legalization will bring more opportunities for everyone in the industry, including the current medical marijuana providers, but I could be wrong. Maybe they will be put out of business.
But that's not a reason to allow the continued mass law enforcement campaigns against marijuana users and sellers to continue -- more than 61,000 people were arrested for marijuana possession in California in 2009 alone. And these people were smart enough to start and maintain successful businesses, therefore they're smart enough to accurately understand the Prop 19 legislation, if they want to, so I say enough is enough. Whether they are doing it deliberately, or out of deliberate ignorance, they should stop spreading misinformation about Prop 19. Shame on the California Cannabis Association. And YES on PROP 19!​


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## redivider (Sep 24, 2010)

how dare you tell the truth??? lol


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## Matt Rize (Sep 24, 2010)

vertise said:


> many lawyers, doctor's, even dispensaries, have stated that prop 215 will not be affected. It is illegal to prevent someone from receiving proper amounts of medication when given a doctors recommendation. The size of your garden will NOT be affected by the 25 foot minimum regulation. If your doctors recommends more you can grow more EVEN under prop 19. It has zero affect on medicinal marijuana.


YES! Although we cannot say for certain how 19 will play out on the ground, 215 and 420 are still valid, and anyone with 100 bucks can still get a rec. Unless you are a die-hard proponent of minimizing gov't & big biz, vote YES on 19. Cali communities have the right to decide if they want to encourage Cannabis or tax the shit out of it. Up here, nor cal, I'm not worried about it.


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## mrFancyPlants (Sep 24, 2010)

Dude, is that spanglish? I have no idea what you're saying. You can't speak english yet you expect us to trust your understanding of the prop. Stop being a tool. Relax, and let the big fist of cannabusiness s-l-o-w-l-y slide out of your rectum.


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## Needofweed (Sep 24, 2010)

yeah yeah yeah, the fact of the matter is that most people already made thier decision whether to vote yes or no and trying to tell someone to change thier mind is like milking a dry cow.

But you sure do sound like a professional,and Harborside was against prop 19 when it first came out but the could not resist richard lees deep pockets either.They are already getting taxed for profits so if prop 19 passes all they got to do is put up a sign that says "welcome 21 and older".

Richard lee and any other million dollor supporter of prop 19 realy dont care about mj, all they're trying to do is sew up the industry to make even more millions of dollors by simply eliminating the compotition and getting the government on thier side with promises of huge tax revanue.At the same time they promise the average mj smoker 30 dollo oz in hope to get thier vote,but if a oz coast 30 dollors the 1.4billion dollor anual tax revanue promised to the govenment will never get reached. So someone is going to get bone in the ass,either the government with a huge downfall in preposed tax revanue(very unlikely) or the paying customer wich will still pay well over a 30 dollors an oz.Plus the fat-cats on capital hill have already preposed a 50 dollor per oz. tax if prop 19 passes.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 24, 2010)

> Damn, i guess the reason why you don't understand is cause you are infact to dumb to.


I thought he was talking to the other guy, the one who thinks we are addicts, not you. ?


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## NBKA (Sep 24, 2010)

WOW 13 pages of R E T A R D s........


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## Needofweed (Sep 24, 2010)

vertise said:


> mrFancyPlants said:
> 
> 
> > Dude, is that spanglish? I have no idea what you're saying. You can't speak english yet you expect us to trust your understanding of the prop. Stop being a tool. Relax, and let the big fist of cannabusiness s-l-o-w-l-y slide out of your rectum.
> ...


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## vertise (Sep 24, 2010)

Lol now i see i thought he was talking about something with in page 13. Hard to tell without a quote. Maybe i jumped the gun, but his clown avatar gets my blood boiling. Sorry bout that.


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## Needofweed (Sep 24, 2010)

what I dont understand is why people get so offended and threatened just because someone is not going to vote in thier favor.I mean did you realy think that all and every person that smoke mj would rise united to legalize mj when the day came.Well sir some of us do have higher standers than others and my right to vote No is just that, mine.


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## Needofweed (Sep 24, 2010)

vertise said:


> Lol now i see i thought he was talking about something with in page 13. Hard to tell without a quote. Maybe i jumped the gun, but his clown avatar gets my blood boiling. Sorry bout that.


Thank you .I will try and make myself more clear next time


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## vertise (Sep 24, 2010)

was actually apologizing to the clown avatar because i thought he was talking to me. But what a kind response from a no voter to a yes voter. bravo. Vote yes.


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## Needofweed (Sep 24, 2010)

LOL you are funny. I had that idiot clow head ignored.Now I understand what happend.
Personaly I do think that prop 19 is going to pass but I just dont like it so we will see how it turns out.


More people will vote yes then there is living on earth.


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## The Ruiner (Sep 24, 2010)

19=Obama.

Same hype, propaganda and misinformation, shit-tons of promises that already stand to be broken, and a lot of deflection and bullshit responses by attorneys that have a vested interest in the passage of 19 who admit in their "open letters" that MMJ patients will be forced (and taxed) to a 5x5 while trying to sell it as a good thing. And on top of it all, it opens the door for a bigger shit-ton of taxes on something that is already taxed, and wont even name dollar amounts because they know NOBODY would vote for it. That letter from that Nick-fucker is hilarious: he basically covers his own ass in the very intro so if 19 passes and is nothing like its being made out to be he can just sit back and say "look I said right here everything we are saying outside of the bill is meaningless and you are dumb for believing it." In fact, that guy goes so far as to say that not only can courts reject even the literal wording of the bill, they cannot consider literature from supporting organizations. SO EVERYTHING THAT ANYONE SAYS OUTSIDE THE BILL IS BULLSHIT AND DOES NOT MATTER!!! The courts must "remember the spirit" of the bill, which is to TAX and REGULATE cannabis. There are no exemptions for MMJ patient growers, you will be forced to a 5x5 unless you are part of a collective (which in the letter he considers as "inconvenient"). The only exemptions in the bill for MMJ patients is in regards to possession/consumption/purchasing.... not growing, and you definitely wont be safe from the taxes. Furthermore, In the paragraph saying which CA laws are to be unaffected, the CUA and MMP are not there. He covers this by only focusing on the fact that they didnt include it in the "limitations" portion either. Really a sweetheart of a deal.

I can hear all of the little kiddies now "where's your proof?!? blah blah blah!!! we are mad! how dare you!" Read the letter. Or...

I am working on a formal response to his letter...Hopefully will have it done by Monday. Then you can all go to town on your call-outs and I will gladly respond when able. But if you have nothing and just want me to do the research for you, its not happening.


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## mrFancyPlants (Sep 24, 2010)

vertise said:


> was actually apologizing to the clown avatar because i thought he was talking to me. But what a kind response from a no voter to a yes voter. bravo. Vote yes.


Sorry about that - I forgot that just replying without a quote doesn't provide a link back to the message that was replied to. 

Yes on 19!

The reason people are so pissed at the naysayers is that this is the first real opportunity for reforming marijuana laws and ending 80 years of failed international drug policy. A 'no' vote is like voting to continue slavery. It's frustrating that people who are new to the issue see some crank on youtube and start spreading their lies - bullshit interpretations like thinking prop 19 limits the freedoms granted under prop 215. It's funny to see people elevate a youtube crank above NORML, Students for Sensible Drug Policy, the Drug Policy&#65279; Alliance, Marc Emery, Ed Rosenthal and countless others. I understand potheads like conspiracy theories but come on. Just the fact that nearly every politician in California is against prop 19 should tell you something.


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## Needofweed (Sep 24, 2010)

who are you to say anyone is new to this issue?Nobody that who.

who ever said that prop 19 is our only chance and only way for the legalization of cannabis is a liar.



PROPOSED WORDING AS OF 05/13/2010:
California Cannabis Hemp & Health Initiative 2012​

California Cannabis Hemp & Health Initiative 2012​
AN ACT TO AMEND THE HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE OF CALIFORNIA:


I. Add Section 11362.6 to the Health and Safety Code of California, any laws or policies to the contrary notwithstanding:​
1. No person, individual, or corporate entity shall be arrested or prosecuted, be denied any right or privilege, nor be subject to any criminal or civil penalties for the possession, cultivation, transportation, distribution, or consumption of cannabis hemp marijuana, including:​
(a) Cannabis hemp industrial products.
(b) Cannabis hemp medicinal preparations.
(c) Cannabis hemp nutritional products.
(c) Cannabis hemp religious and spiritual products.
(d) Cannabis hemp recreational and euphoric use and products.​2. Definition of terms:

(a) The terms "cannabis hemp" and &#8220;cannabis hemp marijuana&#8221; mean the natural, non-genetically modified plant hemp, cannabis, marihuana, marijuana, cannabis sativa L, cannabis Americana, cannabis chinensis, cannabis indica, cannabis ruderalis, cannabis sativa, or any variety of cannabis, including any derivative, concentrate, extract, flower, leaf, particle, preparation, resin, root, salt, seed, stalk, stem, or any product thereof.
(b) The term "cannabis hemp industrial products" means all products made from cannabis hemp that are not designed or intended for human consumption, including, but not limited to: clothing, building materials, paper, fiber, fuel, lubricants, plastics, paint, seed for cultivation, animal feed, veterinary medicine, oil, or any other product that is not designed for internal human consumption; as well as cannabis hemp plants used for crop rotation, erosion control, pest control, weed control, or any other horticultural or environmental purposes, for example, the reversal of the Greenhouse Effect and toxic soil reclamation. 
(c) The term "cannabis hemp medicinal preparations" means all products made from cannabis hemp that are designed, intended, or used for human consumption for the treatment of any human disease or condition, for pain relief, or for any healing purpose, including but not limited to the treatment or relief of: Alzheimer's and pre-Alzheimer's disease, stroke, arthritis, asthma, cramps, epilepsy, glaucoma, migraine, multiple sclerosis, nausea, premenstrual syndrome, side effects of cancer chemotherapy, fibromyalgia, sickle cell anemia, spasticity, spinal injury, stress, easement of post-traumatic stress disorder, Tourette syndrome, attention deficit disorder, immunodeficiency, wasting syndrome from AIDS or anorexia; use as an antibiotic, antibacterial, anti-viral, or anti-emetic; as a healing agent, or as an adjunct to any medical or herbal treatment. Mental conditions not limited to bipolar, depression, attention deficit disorder, or attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, shall be conditions considered for medical use.
(d) The term "cannabis hemp nutritional products" means cannabis hemp for consumption by humans and animals as food, including but not limited to: seed, seed protein, seed oil, essential fatty acids, seed cake, dietary fiber, or any preparation or extract thereof. 
(e) The term "cannabis hemp euphoric products" means cannabis hemp intended for personal recreational or religious use, other than cannabis hemp industrial products, cannabis hemp medicinal preparations, or cannabis hemp nutritional products. 
(f) The term "personal use" means the internal consumption of cannabis hemp by people 21 years of age or older for any relaxational, meditative, religious, spiritual, recreational, or other purpose other than sale.
(g) The term "commercial production" means the production of cannabis hemp products for sale or profit under the conditions of these provisions. ​3. Industrial cannabis hemp farmers, manufacturers, processors, and distributors shall not be subject to any special zoning requirement, licensing fee, or tax that is excessive, discriminatory, or prohibitive.
4. Cannabis hemp medicinal preparations are hereby restored to the list of available medicines in California. Licensed physicians shall not be penalized for, nor restricted from, prescribing or recommending cannabis hemp for medical purposes to any patient, regardless of age. No tax shall be applied to prescribed cannabis hemp medicinal preparations. Medical research shall be encouraged. No recommending physician shall be subject to any professional licensing review or hearing as a result of recommending or approving medical use of cannabis hemp marijuana.​
5. Personal use of cannabis hemp euphoric products.

(a) No permit, license, or tax shall be required for the non-commercial cultivation, transportation, distribution, or consumption of cannabis hemp.
(b) Testing for inactive and/or inert residual cannabis metabolites shall not be required for employment or insurance, nor be considered in determining employment, other impairment, or intoxication.
(c) When a person falls within the conditions of these exceptions, the offense laws do not apply and only the exception laws apply. ​6. Use of cannabis hemp products for religious or spiritual purposes shall be considered an inalienable right; and shall be protected by the full force of the State and Federal Constitutions.
7. Commerce in cannabis hemp euphoric products shall be limited to adults, 21 years of age and older, and shall be regulated in a manner analogous to California's wine industry model. For the purpose of distinguishing personal from commercial production, 99 flowering female plants and 12 pounds of dried, cured cannabis hemp flowers, bud, not leaf, produced per adult, 21 years of age and older, per year shall be considered as being for personal use.
8. The manufacture, marketing, distribution, or sales between adults of equipment or accessories designed to assist in the planting, cultivation, harvesting, curing, processing, packaging, storage, analysis, consumption, or transportation of cannabis hemp plants, industrial cannabis hemp products, cannabis hemp medicinal preparations, cannabis hemp nutritional products, cannabis hemp euphoric products, or any cannabis hemp product shall not be prohibited.
9. No California law enforcement personnel or funds shall be used to assist or aid and abet in the enforcement of Federal cannabis hemp marijuana laws involving acts which are hereby no longer illegal in the State of California.
10. Any person who threatens the enjoyment of these provisions is guilty of a misdemeanor. The maximum penalties and fines of a misdemeanor may be imposed.​II. Repeal, delete, and expunge any and all existing statutory laws that conflict with the provisions of this initiative.

1. Enactment of this initiative shall include: amnesty, immediate release from prison, jail, parole, and probation, and clearing, expungement, and deletion of all criminal records for all persons currently charged with, or convicted of any non-violent cannabis hemp marijuana offenses included in this initiative which are hereby no longer illegal in the State of California. People who fall within this category that triggered an original sentence are included within this provision.
2. Within 60 days of the passage of this Act, the Attorney General shall develop and distribute a one-page application, providing for the destruction of all cannabis hemp marijuana criminal records in California for any such offense covered by this Act. Such forms shall be distributed to district and city attorneys and made available at all police departments in the State to persons hereby affected. Upon filing such form with any Superior Court and a payment of a fee of $10.00, the Court shall liberally construe these provisions to benefit the defendant in furtherance of the amnesty and dismissal provision of this section. Upon the Court's ruling under this provision the arrest record shall be set aside and be destroyed. Such persons may then truthfully state that they have never been arrested or convicted of any cannabis hemp marijuana related offense which is hereby no longer illegal in the State of California. This shall be deemed to be a finding of factual innocence under California Penal Code Section 851.8 et seq.​III. The legislature is authorized upon thorough investigation, to enact legislation using reasonable standards to:

1. License concessionary establishments to distribute cannabis hemp euphoric products in a manner analogous to California's wine industry model. Sufficient community outlets shall be licensed to provide reasonable commercial access to persons of legal age, so as to discourage and prevent the misuse of, and illicit traffic in, such products. Any license or permit fee required by the State for commercial production, distribution or use shall not exceed $1,000.00.
2. Place an excise tax on commercial sale of cannabis hemp euphoric products, analogous to California's wine industry model, so long as no excise tax or combination of excise taxes shall exceed $10.00 per ounce. 
3. Determine an acceptable and uniform standard of impairment based on performance testing, to restrict persons impaired by cannabis hemp euphoric products from operating a motor vehicle or heavy machinery, or otherwise engaging in conduct that may affect public safety. 
4. Regulate the personal use of cannabis hemp euphoric products in enclosed and/or restricted public places.​IV. Pursuant to the Ninth and Tenth Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, the people of California hereby repudiate and challenge Federal cannabis hemp marijuana prohibitions that conflict with this act.
V. Severability: If any provision of this Act, or the application of any such provision to any person or circumstance, shall be held invalid by any court, the remainder of this Act, to the extent it can be given effect, or the application of such provisions to persons or circumstances other than those as to which it is held invalid, shall not be affected thereby, and to this end the provisions of this Act are severable. 
VI. Construction: If any rival or conflicting initiative regulating any matter addressed by this act receives the higher affirmative vote, then all non-conflicting parts shall become operative.
VII. Purpose of Act: This Act is an exercise of the police powers of the State for the protection of the safety, welfare, health, and peace of the people and the environment of the State, to protect the industrial and medicinal uses of cannabis hemp, to eliminate the unlicensed and unlawful cultivation, selling, and dispensing of cannabis hemp; and to encourage temperance in the consumption of cannabis hemp euphoric products. It is hereby declared that the subject matter of this Act involves, in the highest degree, the ecological, economic, social, and moral well-being and safety of the State and of all its people. All provisions of this Act shall be liberally construed for the accomplishment of these purposes: to respect human rights, to promote tolerance, and to end cannabis hemp prohibition.
Eddy Lepp

George Clayton Johnson

Michael S. Jolson

http://youthfederation.com/cchhi2012.html​


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## vertise (Sep 24, 2010)

Yes they seem to love love love conspiracy theories and anything that "the man" is involved in....


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## Matt Rize (Sep 24, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> who are you to say anyone is new to this issue?Nobody that who.
> 
> who ever said that prop 19 is our only chance and only way for the legalization of cannabis is a liar.
> PROPOSED WORDING AS OF 05/13/2010:
> California Cannabis Hemp & Health Initiative 2012​


Homie, we all can fully support the Jack H initiative, seriously best initiative ever. But in reality it is ZERO CHANCE of ever going anywhere because it is too perfect. 19 is full of horrible compromises, but this is why it will pass, and that is the sad state of politics.


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## Needofweed (Sep 24, 2010)

Ive already desided to volunteer my time to gather signuaters.


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## vertise (Sep 24, 2010)

cchh has no chance. Non smokers along with most groups will not support it. Its a dream but a unreachable one.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 24, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> Ive already desided to volunteer my time to gather signuaters.


Good for you, but seriously, Jack H 2012 has ZERO chance. No compromise, no taxing, no regulation... no votes. 

So keep on doing what you are doing... because your grammar and spelling makes everyone want to vote YES ON 19.


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## Needofweed (Sep 24, 2010)

Well I dont care


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## Needofweed (Sep 24, 2010)

Im just trying to say thats there is other options out there. So quit trying to say it now or never cause thats not true.Ive seen to many people write about its now or never.Thats not true.Its now or 2012 and I choose 2012.


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## Needofweed (Sep 24, 2010)

They say that prop19 will legalize weed,how?
You see corn is legal to grow eat or even smoke if one wanted to.
Im not limited to buying a certain amout of corn, or limited to growing corn in a 5x5 area,or selling corn in small amounts and Im not taxed just for growing corn forsale and I dont need a special permit to grow large amounts of corn on my own land.No none of these restrictions apply for corn because corn is legal.


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## vertise (Sep 24, 2010)

corn has not been a victim of prohibition. No one will take a schedual one drug federaly and just make it 100 percent legal and a free for all. As Matt said it is all about compromise. The best compromis is prop 19


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## Matt Rize (Sep 24, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> They say that prop19 will legalize weed,how?
> You see corn is legal to grow eat or even smoke if one wanted to.
> Im not limited to buying a certain amout of corn, or limited to growing corn in a 5x5 area,or selling corn in small amounts and Im not taxed just for growing corn forsale and I dont need a special permit to grow large amounts of corn on my own land.No none of these restrictions apply for corn because corn is legal.


For one: Only ids think this is legalization. This is obviously about tax/regulate, no hiding that fact from anyone, it's the title.

Only ids say this is now or never. Cannabis is heading for tax/regulation (control) one way or another, it comes with legitimacy and general acceptance that it holds incredible therapeutic properties. Jack H 2012 has ZERO chance, so get over it, or at least don't hate on 19.

Your comparison to corn is full of holes, especially because you think we are Cannabis addicts. It's a good thing people like you don't vote, or take part in politics in general. 

Compromise is the whole point of American politics. 19 is far from perfect, but is a step in the right direction. baby-steps.


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## The Ruiner (Sep 25, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> For one: Only ids think this is legalization. This is obviously about tax/regulate, no hiding that fact from anyone, it's the title.
> 
> Only ids say this is now or never. Cannabis is heading for tax/regulation (control) one way or another, it comes with legitimacy and general acceptance that it holds incredible therapeutic properties. Jack H 2012 has ZERO chance, so get over it, or at least don't hate on 19.
> 
> ...


Why wouldnt CCHHI have a chance? If you could cull the pro 19 people and the non 19 people, why wouldnt it have a chance? 

Your deflection to personal expression is full of holes...there's no point for that.

As far as compromise, the only compromise is between drug dealers that have way too much money (you know who you are, and how you got it, and now you want to keep others from doing the same thing) and politicians you can buy as advertisements. There is no compromise between MMJ patients and 19.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 25, 2010)

baby steps are for BABIES.

i'm a grown adult.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 25, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> baby steps are for BABIES.
> 
> i'm a grown adult.


YOU may be, but the state in general is a bunch of babies. Politicians in general are a bunch of babies. And Jack H 2012 is so uncompromising that anyone with a brain knows it will never gain mainstream acceptance. ITS ABOUT MONEY FOR THE STATE.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 25, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> YOU may be, but the state in general is a bunch of babies. Politicians in general are a bunch of babies. And Jack H 2012 is so uncompromising that anyone with a brain knows it will never gain mainstream acceptance. ITS ABOUT MONEY FOR THE STATE.


i'm the one voting.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 25, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> i'm the one voting.


I know...me too...sigh. 

If Jack H 2012 had the slightest chance I would be here trashing prop 19 and pushing for 2012. But I don't see it happening. So here I am, as a public Cannabis activist and educator, who fears the changes that will occur after 19. But for the poor people who can't buy a rec...

YES on 19.

ps. fdd: best avatar ever


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## The Ruiner (Sep 25, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> I know...me too...sigh.
> 
> If Jack H 2012 had the slightest chance I would be here trashing prop 19 and pushing for 2012. But I don't see it happening. So here I am, as a public Cannabis activist and educator, who fears the changes that will occur after 19. But for the poor people who can't buy a rec...
> 
> ...


Poor people that cant buy a rec but can buy weed? Rec's are as low as $35 now... what's an 1/8 go for?
Arent you just the most self-less thing to grace these pages?


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## vertise (Sep 25, 2010)

Rec's should be for patients who need them, not for people who want to casualy smoke weed. Also rec's can affect ones employment/future employment. So those who need them get shafted especially when in fields of work that are more white collar. It is not all about the weed, there are other things that are with in the prop that are good.


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## Needofweed (Sep 25, 2010)

vertise said:


> Rec's should be for patients who need them, not for people who want to casualy smoke weed. Also rec's can affect ones employment/future employment. So those who need them get shafted especially when in fields of work that are more white collar. It is not all about the weed, there are other things that are with in the prop that are good.


No rec's should be for anyone who wants a better life.Isnt that what mj and medicine are all about,living better and more comfortable so one can enjoy life to its fullest potential.
All a person needs to get a card is a want to live a better life.Now you can even get Medi-Cal to pay up to 50% of the coast.


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## Needofweed (Sep 25, 2010)

I mean shouldnt every one be able to smoke a joint for the common headache insted of poping a pill.


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## The Ruiner (Sep 25, 2010)

vertise said:


> Rec's should be for patients who need them, not for people who want to casualy smoke weed. Also rec's can affect ones employment/future employment. So those who need them get shafted especially when in fields of work that are more white collar. It is not all about the weed, there are other things that are with in the prop that are good.


So your opinion of someones need for MMJ should mean more than a doctors? What kind of jobs are you refering to? Your words are vague, trying to evoke sympathy for some non-existant people you just made up...and how the heck are the white collar types more affected than blue? This makes absolutely no sense, and you probably cant establish this with any credibility. And yes, this is ALL ABOUT THE WEED. If it wasn't why are you here?


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## vertise (Sep 25, 2010)

Do you read what people say or just form an idea and no matter what is said respond with what is already in your head.


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## The Ruiner (Sep 25, 2010)

vertise said:


> Do you read what people say or just form an idea and no matter what is said respond with what is already in your head.


I am responding to you sentence by sentence... and you came back with nothing...support your arguments! Come on!


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## Matt Rize (Sep 25, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> I mean shouldnt every one be able to smoke a joint for the common headache insted of poping a pill.


Yes, that is part of what prop 19 does for everyone over 21. The rest is BS big business taxation and control. Is it worth it to Californians? We shall see. Respect to both sides of this issue.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 25, 2010)

The Ruiner said:


> Poor people that cant buy a rec but can buy weed? Rec's are as low as $35 now... what's an 1/8 go for?
> Arent you just the most self-less thing to grace these pages?


Not where I am, they go for 100 renewal and 150 for newbs. Either way, if you are a poor or on the street without a proper ID, it's kinda hard to get a rec. The people washing our dishes and picking our food should get to smoke too.


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## vertise (Sep 25, 2010)

So your opinion of someones need for MMJ should mean more than a doctors?

(What does this even mean. You are saying that someones need for medical marijuana should mean more then a doctors need for mmj) 

What kind of jobs are you refering to? Your words are vague, trying to evoke sympathy for some non-existant people you just made up...and how the heck are the white collar types more affected than blue? 

(Any and all company's can legaly deny ANY marijuana user a job. Medicinal or not. However, under prop 19, in order to deny a marijuana user employment the employer must accurately prove his/her use of weed will affect performance. Which tech cannot be done until that person performs such job. ) 

This makes absolutely no sense, and you probably cant establish this with any credibility. And yes, this is ALL ABOUT THE WEED. If it wasn't why are you here? 

(Not all about weed, i do not know if you are responding to something i said on another thread. The voters that make up most of the yes' are most likely none growers. The bill is the perfect compromise for growers/smoker/none marijuana users. Try thinking of a bill that would be supported by all different mindsets. Not just yours.)


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## fdd2blk (Sep 25, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> Not where I am, they go for 100 renewal and 150 for newbs. Either way, if you are a poor or on the street without a proper ID, it's kinda hard to get a rec. The people washing our dishes and picking our food should get to smoke too.


how are they going to pay for it?


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## Needofweed (Sep 25, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> Not where I am, they go for 100 renewal and 150 for newbs. Either way, if you are a poor or on the street without a proper ID, it's kinda hard to get a rec. The people washing our dishes and picking our food should get to smoke too.


But if someone is poor or sick then more than likely they got Medi-Cal wich will pay for a large portion of the cost.


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## Needofweed (Sep 25, 2010)

"The cards must be annually renewed and the $100 fee is charged each year, Elliott said. Patients who are eligible for Medi-Cal can have 50% of the fee waived."

take from here: http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/507445/medical_marijuana_users_protected_tulare_county_will_start_a_program/index.html


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## Matt Rize (Sep 25, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> how are they going to pay for it?


poor people, illegal immigrants, and the homeless in reality consume a lot of cigarettes and alcohol, they pay for it somehow. same with herbs.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 25, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> But if someone is poor or sick then more than likely they got Medi-Cal wich will pay for a large portion of the cost.


uhhh...homie...illegals don't get Medi-cal. same as any person without id.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 25, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> "The cards must be annually renewed and the $100 fee is charged each year, Elliott said. Patients who are eligible for Medi-Cal can have 50% of the fee waived."
> 
> Yeah, okay...and with 19 this silly medical card system is no longer needed for those who don't have large medical needs. Are you saying that we should have to pay for a rec to smoke legally?


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## fdd2blk (Sep 25, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> uhhh...homie...illegals don't get Medi-cal. same as any person without id.


um, illegals are the burden of medi-cal. or shall i say "anchor babies of illegals".


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## fdd2blk (Sep 25, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> Needofweed said:
> 
> 
> > "The cards must be annually renewed and the $100 fee is charged each year, Elliott said. Patients who are eligible for Medi-Cal can have 50% of the fee waived."
> ...


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## Needofweed (Sep 25, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> uhhh...homie...illegals don't get Medi-cal. same as any person without id.


lol most illegals dont care about smoking bud legaly the got bigger things to worry about.


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## The Ruiner (Sep 25, 2010)

Also, not every form of free health coverage is medi-cal....there are so many different kinds on the local levels its ridiculous....and yes, taxes pay for those too.


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## Needofweed (Sep 25, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> > Yeah, okay...and with 19 this silly medical card system is no longer needed for those who don't have large medical needs. Are you saying that we should have to pay for a rec to smoke legally?
> 
> 
> silly realy,I dont think its silly at all its a very appreciated sistem of laws and rights that must be protected in its entire form.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 25, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> Matt Rize said:
> 
> 
> > silly realy,I dont think its silly at all its a very appreciated sistem of laws and rights that must be protected in its entire form.
> ...


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## Matt Rize (Sep 25, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> Matt Rize said:
> 
> 
> > sure, why not. you're more than willing to be taxed for it, why not just pay a SMALL, once a year fee instead and be done with it? makes A LOT more sense then trying to figure out a whole new set of laws and regulations.
> ...


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## fdd2blk (Sep 25, 2010)

i don't think you will find 1 person here who doesn't agree that cannabis should be available to the public. there are other ways to do it though.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 25, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> i don't think you will find 1 person here who doesn't agree that cannabis should be available to the public. there are other ways to do it though.


That we can agree on. If Jack H 2012 had a remote chance of gaining mainstream acceptance...I'd be on that train. But it's like a stoner's wet dream.

I'm not into taxation or regulation by any means. Just sick of the BS, and I think the world might be fooled into thinking we LEGALIZED IT.

This may not be the best for Cali, but possibly for the world. No one knows really, this is unprecedented legislation in America.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 25, 2010)

there's that "fooled" word again. 

typical richard lee move.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 25, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> there's that "fooled" word again.
> 
> typical richard lee move.


What can I say, I'm an OU instructor 

I know....BOOOOO


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## The Ruiner (Sep 25, 2010)

It wouldnt have been had he not written a bill that fucks over all the people that go to the school.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 25, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> What can I say, I'm an OU instructor
> 
> I know....BOOOOO


i was offered a job there teaching. i did not like the way they ran things though. that and dick still owes me. i would never open myself up to be screwed by him twice.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 25, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> i was offered a job there teaching. i did not like the way they ran things though. that and dick still owes me. i would never open myself up to be screwed by him twice.


IDK bro, never met the man myself. I won't deny that he is behind 19 tho. BUT I will point out that his motivations and mine are not the same. I teach at a satellite campus in the north bay, and I LOVE it. The feedback is amazing. Plus, they pay great, but I only teach an hour or two a month. They don't pay my rent, in other words.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 25, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> IDK bro, never met the man myself. I won't deny that he is behind 19 tho. BUT I will point out that his motivations and mine are not the same. I teach at a satellite campus in the north bay, and I LOVE it. The feedback is amazing. Plus, they pay great, but I only teach an hour or two a month. They don't pay my rent, in other words.


i'm well aware of what they pay.


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## mrFancyPlants (Sep 25, 2010)

Looks like this thread went off into the weeds... 

For what it's worth - think of it this way: if we pass 19, CA will be a magnet for stoners, and we'll have a much better chance of passing a more permissive measure in 2012.

The corn analogy is stupid - look at alcohol. Has alcohol been legalized? In a sense, yes, but it is still regulated. Expect the same treatment for mj. We'll end the destructive prohibition on it, but we'll never let it be truly free. However, like alcohol, I'd expect you'll eventually be free to make as much as you want, provided you don't piss off the wrong people. So it is in the great US of A.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 25, 2010)

mrFancyPlants said:


> Looks like this thread went off into the weeds...
> 
> For what it's worth - think of it this way: if we pass 19, CA will be a magnet for stoners, and we'll have a much better chance of passing a more permissive measure in 2012.
> 
> The corn analogy is stupid - look at alcohol. Has alcohol been legalized? In a sense, yes, but it is still regulated. Expect the same treatment for mj. We'll end the destructive prohibition on it, but we'll never let it be truly free. However, like alcohol, I'd expect you'll eventually be free to make as much as you want, provided you don't piss off the wrong people. So it is in the great US of A.


Thanks for getting us back on track.


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## Needofweed (Sep 25, 2010)

mrFancyPlants said:


> Looks like this thread went off into the weeds...
> 
> For what it's worth - think of it this way: if we pass 19, CA will be a magnet for stoners, and we'll have a much better chance of passing a more permissive measure in 2012.
> 
> The corn analogy is stupid - look at alcohol. Has alcohol been legalized? In a sense, yes, but it is still regulated. Expect the same treatment for mj. We'll end the destructive prohibition on it, but we'll never let it be truly free. However, like alcohol, I'd expect you'll eventually be free to make as much as you want, provided you don't piss off the wrong people. So it is in the great US of A.


My father grows 3/4 of an acre of grapes tax free and he is a old portugese and a avid wine maker he built some costem equitmet and alsow bought some other equitment that he uses to make wine.There is no restrictions on how much grapes he can grow or even how much wine he can make or have at anytime.Every year we make about 300-400 gallons of wine.My father is 72 years old and we have been doing this since 1993. Alcohol is way less restricted then what prop 19 preposes for mj.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 25, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> My father grows 3/4 of an acre of grapes tax free and he is a old portugese and a avid wine maker he built some costem equitmet and alsow bought some other equitment that he uses to make wine.There is no restrictions on how much grapes he can grow or even how much wine he can make or have at anytime.Every year we make about 300-400 gallons of wine.My father is 72 years old and we have been doing this since 1993. Alcohol is way less restricted then what prop 19 preposes for mj.


I suppose that depends on the math. 300-400 gallons of wholesale wine is worth 5 to 15 dollars a gallon: http://www.walkersfruitbasket.com/Retail Prices.html

That comes up to maximum of $2,000 to $6,000 of wine that he is making. Not much in the Canna-world.


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## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 25, 2010)

fuk that one OZ at a time shit..there doing that so they can make more money and bust people who get caught with more..HHEELLLOOOO this is a growing site right?? u guys pull more then one OZ off your plants at a time right?? am i missing something.???? i buy 4-8oz at a time cuz it saves me money but if prop 19 passes im going to have to pay 225-300 an OZ or so..FUK THAT and i dont like the fact that there ganna retire (for lack of a better word) certain strains


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## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 25, 2010)

Taken from wiki

According to the State of California analysis, the bill will have the following effects.[6]
*[edit] Legalization of personal marijuana-related activities*

Persons age 21 and older:


*May possess up to 1 ounce (28 g) of marijuana for personal consumption. >>>FUK THAT
*
May use marijuana in a non-public place such as a residence or a public establishment licensed for on site marijuana consumption.
May grow marijuana at a private residence in a space of up to 25 square feet (2.3 m2) for personal use. BUT YOU CAN ONLY POSSES ONE OZ (28g) at a time SO GROW SMALL PLANTS>>*FUK THAT 2*


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## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 25, 2010)

NO ON PROP 19 till someone can make me think otherwise cuz most of the stuff i read was bs and ego's talking..u guys dont know how county's are ganna fuk u over obviously..the taxes will be so expensive only tobacco companies will be the one's growing big..say goodbye to ur gardens rollitup..and hello to ur one plant with one oz on it


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## medicalsb420 (Sep 25, 2010)

if 19 passes, employers can no longer guarantee a drug free work place. without a guaranteed drug free work environment california stands to loose billions in federal grant money( the feds dont pay if the drug free standard isnt imposed.) which means California based companies would no longer be eligible for federal contracts. this would impact our debt and economy in a very significant and negative way. it is true that the taxation and regulation of marijuana would generate billions in revenue for the state annually, however when the surprisingly high costs of regulation gets factored in, i'm not sure it any longer would generate revenue to exceed the federal grant money we currently enjoy. this federal money helps to pay teachers, civil servants, construction industries, and generally provides funding for "mainline" efforts of the common good. Also it could be assumed that regulation is where they will push home-growers out and it will be the high costs of regulation that allows their monopoly. Check out the U.S farm bill if you want an idea of how u.s regulation works to fuck over the small AMERICAN farmer. if 19 passes forget about bringing crop to market- you wont be able to afford the inspection costs, let alone the cost of strictly mandated production equipment; especially when corporate farms drop the price floor to $50 an ounce so only they can produce enough crop to turn a profit. if anything prop.19 will increase mafia activity on both sides of the law. who do you think big business turns to for investment prospects? PROP.19 does not end marijuana prohibition by a long shot- marijuana will remain federally illegal and nothing in prop.19 exempts a marijuana grower/dealer/user from federal prosecution. if we return to a conservative right wing regime after Obama, this whole house of cards comes tumbling down! (hope you didnt put your name on the list...terrorist!)


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## Needofweed (Sep 25, 2010)

Vote no on prop 19 and stop the Richard Lees cashcow.


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## mrFancyPlants (Sep 25, 2010)

Look, do you really think 19 is going to make the price of weed rise above the current street level? If it did, people would just use the established underground networks(or create new ones) and the state wouldn't get their money. 

I don't know what to say about federal grant money - I guess that's true but you've got to start somewhere. I seriously doubt the feds would fuck the most economically important state like that. We *are* the worlds.. 5th? biggest economy if you treat CA as a nation.

I grew for years without anyone noticing. I have a hard time believing prop 19 is going to change that. The practical effect is that law enforcement won't give a shit.

Also, I'm a med patient - and not for 'back pain' or some other horseshit(yes, lots of people with back pain use MMJ I'm just saying that it's a common excuse used to get a script). I can still grow and possess all I want. Do you think cops are going to carry around scales and weigh your shit if 19 passes? 

Also... how are these supposed large commercial farms supposed to work if the delivery guy can't transport more than an ounce at a time?

The key to 19 is that it's better than what we have now, which is a 0 oz limit and 100% taxation for non-medical users.


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## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 25, 2010)

look, if u dont know what ur taking about dont talk. The one oz law is for a person like u or me not commercial farmers they got laws they gotta follow to but not one OZ law lol cant even believe u said that so i had to say something..and i can legally have 8ounces on me at all times, thats my COUNTY law. If 19 passes i can only have a Oz and instead of buying 8oz at a time for 1600-1850 dollars im ganna have to buy an Oz a week or so and most likely the price will only drop if 19 passes by like 20-50 bucks an Oz


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## mrFancyPlants (Sep 26, 2010)

Cali.Grown>408 said:


> look, if u dont know what ur taking about dont talk. The one oz law is for a person like u or me not commercial farmers they got laws they gotta follow to but not one OZ law lol cant even believe u said that so i had to say something..and i can legally have 8ounces on me at all times, thats my COUNTY law. If 19 passes i can only have a Oz and instead of buying 8oz at a time for 1600-1850 dollars im ganna have to buy an Oz a week or so and most likely the price will only drop if 19 passes by like 20-50 bucks an Oz


Shit, sorry - it's been a while since I read it. 



> (l) such larger amounts as the local authority deems appropriate and proper under local circumstances, than those established under section 11300(a) for personal possession and cultivation, or under this section for commercial cultivation, processing, transportation and sale by persons authorized to do so under this section;


So higher limits for possession by commercial growers.

Still don't understand why you're going to have to buy an oz at a time if you qualify as a patient. Can you explain that?

What's the 8oz limit from? Is that your county's medical limit? I hope ya know that the county limits are now only guidelines for law enforcement and not legal limits. If you're a med patient, with or without 19, you can have as much as you can prove you have a need for. You might have to go to court to explain it, but legally they can't limit what you need to medicate.


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## The Ruiner (Sep 26, 2010)

mrFancyPlants said:


> Shit, sorry - it's been a while since I read it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes to the first sentence about commercial growers.

Oz at a time doesnt apply to med patients...thats literally the only exception that 19 makes in regards to MMJ. They've reiterated this point countless times like MMJ patients should be happy about it...it makes no sense to say "hey, we're not going to restrict your possession limits as patients but...we are going to make it impossible for you to cultivate your own, or for your caregiver to cultivate"

The biggest issue for MMJ patients, IMO, is that ALL grows, unless commercial, will be subject to the 5x5 AND quite possibly to NEW taxes ALLOWED by 19.
Essentially 19 will make every garden larger than 5x5 ILLEGAL, and whether its "legal" or not it will also NOW be subject to new taxes because of all the REGULATION 19 has opened the door for....Read the section on taxes, they list a grip of "possible" taxes but no solid amounts - pretty much letting the counties decide how much EVERYONE pays, medical or not. And given the numbers that have been thrown around they look to be astronomical. Just look at Rancho Cordova.

Most dispensaries (the small ones) aren't very hip to 19 from what I have gathered...because 19 will more than likely put most of them out of business within a year. And that's fucked up for the patients....shame on these people....the major pro-19 players....

They are disgracing themselves en masse, and I for one will never support corporate weed knowing what the REAL cost has been.


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## tc1 (Sep 26, 2010)

Cali.Grown>408 said:


> fuk that one OZ at a time shit..there doing that so they can make more money and bust people who get caught with more..HHEELLLOOOO this is a growing site right?? u guys pull more then one OZ off your plants at a time right?? am i missing something.???? i buy 4-8oz at a time cuz it saves me money but if prop 19 passes im going to have to pay 225-300 an OZ or so..FUK THAT and i dont like the fact that there ganna retire (for lack of a better word) certain strains




Ehhh.... you can have as much marijuana as you want within the privacy of your own home.

You're only allowed to travel with 1 ounce of marijuana on your person. (Unless you are a prop 19 patient)


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## tc1 (Sep 26, 2010)

The Ruiner said:


> Yes to the first sentence about commercial growers.
> 
> Oz at a time doesnt apply to med patients...thats literally the only exception that 19 makes in regards to MMJ. They've reiterated this point countless times like MMJ patients should be happy about it...it makes no sense to say "hey, we're not going to restrict your possession limits as patients but...we are going to make it impossible for you to cultivate your own, or for your caregiver to cultivate"
> 
> ...


Prop 215 grows are not subject to the same laws and regulations as Prop 19 grows. Even if they were ... if you can't grow tons of marijuana in a 25sft area (the equivalent of about 32 5 gallon buckets) you shouldn't be growing in the first place.


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## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Prop 215 grows are not subject to the same laws and regulations as Prop 19 grows. Even if they were ... if you can't grow tons of marijuana in a 25sft area (the equivalent of about 32 5 gallon buckets) you shouldn't be growing in the first place.


You obviously have never grown Cannabis.

I currently provide meds to myself and three others. My garden is over 300 sq. ft. I need that space. If 19 passes, I'll find out where you live and take your crop, along with 10 other prop 19 supporters.

My wife's good health is far more precious to me than your life.

Your short sightedness and lack of understanding of the current system will cause you a lot of grief if you think you'll benefit from this bill.

If I'm forced to reduce my grow, I'll be spending whatever it takes to have this law overthrown.

It can't pass muster with the California Supreme Court. To many loopholes and deception is evident if you read Prop 19 and the Health and Safety codes as they are currently written.

This might require some literacy on your part. A difficult thing to find among prop 19 supporters.


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## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Ehhh.... you can have as much marijuana as you want within the privacy of your own home.
> 
> You're only allowed to travel with 1 ounce of marijuana on your person. (Unless you are a prop 19 patient)


so they say..if it passes we'll have to see i guess..i just dont want them to make a big deal if i wanna grow 10-20 plants and right now i only have space for 1-6 but in the future i wanna do it bigger..what i read said u can POSSES one Oz (28g)..


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## JoesphStalin (Sep 27, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> You obviously have never grown Cannabis.
> 
> I currently provide meds to myself and three others. My garden is over 300 sq. ft. I need that space. If 19 passes, I'll find out where you live and take your crop, along with 10 other prop 19 supporters.
> 
> ...


Let me know Ill help you overthrow 19 all the way.


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> You obviously have never grown Cannabis.
> 
> I currently provide meds to myself and three others. My garden is over 300 sq. ft. I need that space. If 19 passes, I'll find out where you live and take your crop, along with 10 other prop 19 supporters.
> 
> ...



Please ... there's plenty of people on this website who have grown more with less. If you can't grow pounds of marijuana in a 25 square foot setting then perhaps you should learn from those on this site and others who ARE doing it. I mean for heavens sake ... there's people on here growing close to a quarter pound in rubbermaid containers using CFLs and/or low watt hids. That's what? a 4-6 square foot grow area? But you can't grow pounds with 25 square feet? Riiiiight ...... 

And once again ... YOUR grow operation would fall under Prop 215 guidelines ... NOT Prop 19. You wont have to reduce your grow area, because you fall under medical need ...not recreational. 

Prop 215 = Medical
Prop 19 = Recreational

I have absolutely NO idea why some of you continue to perpetuate this lie that somehow Prop 19 will effect Prop 215 patients. It simply won't.


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

Cali.Grown>408 said:


> so they say..if it passes we'll have to see i guess..i just dont want them to make a big deal if i wanna grow 10-20 plants and right now i only have space for 1-6 but in the future i wanna do it bigger..what i read said u can POSSES one Oz (28g)..



I don't say anything ... It's written in Prop 19. And yes, you can only possess 1 ounce on your person. That *does not* include the marijuana you harvest in the privacy of your own home. In other words, don't travel will more than an ounce and you'll be fine.

As far as how many plants you can have .... that simply depends on the design of your grow room. You can't go over 25 square feet but there is no plant limit under Prop 19.


BTW ... under Prop 19 an ounce of marijuana is defined as 28.5 grams. So yeah ... you get an extra .15 grams.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Prop 215 = Medical
> Prop 19 = Recreational
> 
> I have absolutely NO idea why some of you continue to perpetuate this lie that somehow Prop 19 will effect Prop 215 patients. It simply won't.


If you can convince me that will be true, in every town and county in cali, I will vote yes. This includes my current right to drive around with up to three pounds.


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## LsdgotAholdofMe (Sep 27, 2010)

from what i've seen, most who are against prop 19 are fools facing the fact they may have to go out and get a job instead of selling bags of weed


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> If you can convince me that will be true, in every town and county in cali, I will vote yes. This includes my current right to drive around with up to three pounds.



Sections of Prop 19 states:
_
7. Ensure that if a city decides not to tax and regulate the sale of cannabis, that buying and selling cannabis within that city&#8217;s limits remain illegal, but that the city&#8217;s citizens still have the right to possess and consume small amounts, *except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5* and 11362.7 through 11362.9._

*11362.5 = Prop 215*

Section 8 of Prop 19 states:

_8. Ensure that if a city decides it does want to tax and regulate the buying and selling of cannabis (to and from adults only), that a strictly controlled legal system is implemented to oversee and regulate cultivation, distribution, and sales, and that the city will have control over how and how much cannabis can be bought and sold, *except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 *and 11362.7 through 11362.9._

Again *11362.5* = Prop 215


As far as recreational ... I can't guarantee uniform legislation because Prop 19 specifically states that local municipalities will have the right to regulate marijuana the way they see fit as long as it does not overstep Prop 19 (Which is a POSITIVE step for marijuana activism)

In general (like most state laws), local municipalities will use Prop 19 as precedence. The differences will be in determining regulatory systems for the sale and tax of non-medical marijuana if they choose to do so.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Section 8 of Prop 19 states:
> 
> _8. Ensure that if a city decides it does want to tax and regulate the buying and selling of cannabis (to and from adults only), that a strictly controlled legal system is implemented to oversee and regulate cultivation, distribution, and sales, and that the city will have control over how and how much cannabis can be bought and sold, *except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 *and 11362.7 through 11362.9._
> 
> ...


Thanks. Localities may tax the shit out of medical Cannabis to the point of prohibition? Because a big part of medical Cannabis as it is right now is about recovering our expenses. So medical Cannabis sales to dispensares may or may not be heavily taxed? If 19 opens that can of worms, that would suck.


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

Matt Rize said:


> Thanks. Localities may tax the shit out of medical Cannabis to the point of prohibition? Because a big part of medical Cannabis as it is right now is about recovering our expenses. So medical Cannabis sales to dispensares may or may not be heavily taxed? If 19 opens that can of worms, that would suck.



Under Prop 19 .... Prop 215 provisions can NOT be changed. Section 7 and section 8 or both EXEMPTIONS for Prop 215 patients.


Let me make this clear .... Prop 19 has exemptions for 11362.5 (Prop 215) patients and caregivers. 
Prop 19 and Prop 215 are two completely different pieces of legislation for two completely different uses.

Prop 215 = Medical
Prop 19 = Recreational

People saying otherwise are using scare tactics and pure propaganda to get medical marijuana patients to vote no on Prop 19.


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## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Please ... there's plenty of people on this website who have grown more with less. If you can't grow pounds of marijuana in a 25 square foot setting then perhaps you should learn from those on this site and others who ARE doing it. I mean for heavens sake ... there's people on here growing close to a quarter pound in rubbermaid containers using CFLs and/or low watt hids. That's what? a 4-6 square foot grow area? But you can't grow pounds with 25 square feet? Riiiiight ......
> 
> And once again ... YOUR grow operation would fall under Prop 215 guidelines ... NOT Prop 19. You wont have to reduce your grow area, because you fall under medical need ...not recreational.
> 
> ...


If you haven't read and compared thew Health and Safety codes, you don't know what you're talking about.

I want links to every garden producing two ounces per square foot.

I don't see them.

You are obviously guessing.

What dispensary do you work for? 

In Oakland?


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

*Health and Safety Code 11362.5 IS Prop 215.*

Prop 19 Section 7 and Section 8 gives exemptions to people who fall under 11362.5 (Prop 215)



Good grief .... you're arguing against FACTS.


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## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Under Prop 19 .... Prop 215 provisions can NOT be changed. Section 7 and section 8 or both EXEMPTIONS for Prop 215 patients.
> 
> 
> Let me make this clear .... Prop 19 has exemptions for 11362.5 (Prop 215) patients and caregivers.
> ...



Wrong again. Anything unspecified under Prop 215 is subject to rules defined in Prop 19.

215 doesn't mention grow areas. Prop 19 does.

If passed, corrupt local LEOs will be trying to bust anyone with over 25 sq. ft.

Get your facts straight, instead of making assumptions.

You don't understand the issues.

STFU.(at least until you inform yourself.)


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## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Health Code 11362.5 IS Prop 215.
> 
> Good grief .....


Correct!

Have you READ it? Do you see any mention of area allowed?

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?


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## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> I don't say anything ... It's written in Prop 19. And yes, you can only possess 1 ounce on your person. That *does not* include the marijuana you harvest in the privacy of your own home. In other words, don't travel will more than an ounce and you'll be fine.
> 
> As far as how many plants you can have .... that simply depends on the design of your grow room. You can't go over 25 square feet but there is no plant limit under Prop 19.
> 
> ...


ur saying shit right now lol wtf..and they is not u..they meaning "The Government" anyways if it doesn't affect medical patients i dont have a problem with it i guess but think all u stoners who just wanna get stoned should get a job and only smoke if u need to and stop hating on people who got cards and wanna grow as much dank as they want..and either way that oz law is BS, so u can have more then a oz but only be caught with a oz?? so how would u even pick up over a oz if u can have over an oz at your house and u weren't growing?? lol whatever


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## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

You seem to be ignoring my assessment of your cultivation experience.

I'll assume you are inexperienced.

Also, nearly every one of your posts are about Prop 19.

Just shilling for the boys in Oakland?


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

Prop 19 gives EVERYONE freedom and takes NOTHING away from 215 patients.


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## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Prop 19 gives EVERYONE freedom and takes NOTHING away from 215 patients.


Prove it!

You haven't read the codes so you aren't capable of making your case.

Are you even registered to vote?


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Correct!
> 
> Have you READ it? Do you see any mention of area allowed?
> 
> DO YOU UNDERSTAND?



Medical patients are limited two 6 plants ... not a specific area.

So in other words ... Prop 19 will allow medical patients the possibility to grow MORE marijuana plants.


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

I love how the anti-Prop 19 folks resort to name calling and personal attacks.


You know why? Because that's all they have when they realize they can't argue against facts.


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## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Medical patients are limited two 6 plants ... not a specific area.
> 
> So in other words ... Prop 19 will allow medical patients the possibility to grow MORE marijuana plants.


DUDE!

PLANT LIMITS WERE OVERTHROWN ABOUT A YEAR AGO.

You Really don't know shit...


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## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> I love how the anti-Prop 19 folks resort to name calling and personal attacks.
> 
> 
> You know why? Because that's all they have when they realize they can't argue against facts.


I'm sick of idiots who express uninformed opinions that will, in the long run, hurt them!

Prop 19 will do just what it says. Tax and control Cannabis.

Legalization is NOT mentioned.


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## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

haha he said plant limits tc1 take ur 49 posts and get up off of Rollitup with that BS false information..us patients determine how much medicine we need..we have no limit


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

Cali.Grown>408 said:


> ur saying shit right now lol wtf..and they is not u..they meaning "The Government" anyways if it doesn't affect medical patients i dont have a problem with it i guess but think all u stoners who just wanna get stoned should get a job and only smoke if u need to and stop hating on people who got cards and wanna grow as much dank as they want..and either way that oz law is BS, so u can have more then a oz but only be caught with a oz?? so how would u even pick up over a oz if u can have over an oz at your house and u weren't growing?? lol whatever


If it wasn't for all of us "stoners who just want to be stoned" ... you wouldn't even HAVE your medical marijuana. You might want to refrain from stereotyping people based on their desire to use marijuana recreationally. That's a slap in the face to the marijuana movement and the MAJORITY of people on this board. Again ... some of the people who voted YES on Prop 215 and allowed you to lawfully use your medical marijuana. I mean seriously ... you sound like someone on the governments bankroll trying to play up the whole "Lazy, jobless, and stupid stoner" stigma.

Under Prop 19 ... you're allowed to keep your harvested marijuana regardless if it's over 1 ounce. You are NOT allowed to walk around town with over an ounce. Not really hard to understand.

If you have a 215 card ... non of this applies to you. If anything, it enforces your right to USE MEDICAL MARIJUANA.


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> I'm sick of idiots who express uninformed opinions that will, in the long run, hurt them!
> 
> Prop 19 will do just what it says. Tax and control Cannabis.
> 
> Legalization is NOT mentioned.



_Title and Summary:
*Changes California Law to Legalize Marijuana and Allow It to Be Regulated and Taxed. Initiative Statute.*_ _

*Allows people 21 years old or older to possess, cultivate, or transport marijuana for personal use*._ _ Permits local governments to regulate and tax commercial production and sale of marijuana to people 21 years old or older. Prohibits people from possessing marijuana on school grounds, using it in public, smoking it while minors are present, or providing it to anyone under 21 years old. Maintains current prohibitions against driving while impaired. Summary of estimate by Legislative Analyst and Director of Finance of fiscal impact on state and local governments: Savings of up to several tens of millions of dollars annually to state and local governments on the costs of incarcerating and supervising certain marijuana offenders. Unknown but potentially major tax, fee, and benefit assessment revenues to state and local government related to the production and sale of marijuana products._

*
If you are allowed to possess, cultivate, and transport marijuana .... it's LEGAL.*

_Section 3: Lawful Activities
Article 5 of Chapter 5 of Division 10 of the Health and Safety Code, commencing with section 11300 is added to read:
Section 11300: Personal Regulation and Controls
(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, it is lawful and shall not be a public offense under California law for any person 21 years of age or older to:
(i) Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual&#8217;s personal consumption, and not for sale._



But HEY! Prop 19 isn't about legalization. All it does is* allow you to LAWFULLY possess, cultivate, and transport marijuana.* 

You can't reason with the unreasonable ....


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## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

That is a "summary" and isn't backed up in the text of the proposition.

You keep repeating the same lies, hoping the stupid will believe without looking for themselves.


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> That is a "summary" and isn't backed up in the text of the proposition.
> 
> You keep repeating the same lies, hoping the stupid will believe without looking for themselves.



_
Section 3: Lawful Activities
Article 5 of Chapter 5 of Division 10 of the Health and Safety Code, commencing with section 11300 is added to read:
Section 11300: Personal Regulation and Controls
(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, *it is lawful* and shall not be a public offense under California law for any person 21 years of age or older to:
(i) Personally *possess, process, share, or transport* *not more than one ounce of cannabis*, solely for that individual&#8217;s personal consumption, and not for sale._

_(ii) *Cultivate*, on private property by the owner, lawful occupant, or other lawful resident or guest of the private property owner or lawful occupant, cannabis plants for personal consumption only, in an area of not more than twenty-five square feet per private residence or, in the absence of any residence, the parcel. Cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property. Provided that, nothing in this section shall permit unlawful or unlicensed cultivation of cannabis on any public lands._

_(iii)* Possess* on the premises where grown the living and harvested plants and results of any harvest and processing of plants lawfully cultivated pursuant to section 11300(a)(ii), for personal consumption._
_
(iv) * Possess* objects, items, tools, equipment, products and materials associated with activities permitted under this subsection._



Sure sounds like it's backed up in the text of Prop 19 to me. Unless you're dumb enough to think something that is LAWFUL is illegal.


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## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> If it wasn't for all of us "stoners who just want to be stoned" ... you wouldn't even HAVE your medical marijuana. You might want to refrain from stereotyping people based on their desire to use marijuana recreationally. That's a slap in the face to the marijuana movement and the MAJORITY of people on this board. Again ... some of the people who voted YES on Prop 215 and allowed you to lawfully use your medical marijuana. I mean seriously ... you sound like someone on the governments bankroll trying to play up the whole "Lazy, jobless, and stupid stoner" stigma.
> 
> Under Prop 19 ... you're allowed to keep your harvested marijuana regardless if it's over 1 ounce. You are NOT allowed to walk around town with over an ounce. Not really hard to understand.
> 
> If you have a 215 card ... non of this applies to you. If anything, it enforces your right to USE MEDICAL MARIJUANA.


 lol are u fu%&^n retarded?? so u said we can have more then a oz but only walk around with a oz so how the FUK are u suppose to get it?? IF U CANT GROW IT?? and u dont even make sense..u would be the one on the governments bankroll trying to get this shit passed..and dont include US together in the same sentence cuz U personally haven't done a damn thing as far as im concerned but spread false information..and if it werent for us medical users u prop 19 stoners wouldnt even be having this debate


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

Cali.Grown>408 said:


> lol are u fu%&^n retarded?? so u said we can have more then a oz but only walk around with a oz so how the FUK are u suppose to get it?? IF U CANT GROW IT?? and u dont even make sense..u would be the one on the governments bankroll trying to get this shit passed..and dont include US together in the same sentence cuz U personally haven't done a damn thing as far as im concerned but spread false information..and if it werent for us medical users u prop 19 stoners wouldnt even be having this debate



YOU CAN GROW MARIJUANA UNDER PROP 19.

Good grief.


----------



## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

no im sayin like if you Couldn't..like if you had no room to grow where u live..and u wanted more then a oz cuz u said its legal to have more then a oz but u cant ride around with more then a oz. It sounds like conflicting laws and bullshit


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

Cali.Grown>408 said:


> no im sayin like if you Couldn't..like if you had no room to grow where u live..and u wanted more then a oz cuz u said its legal to have more then a oz but u cant ride around with more then a oz. It sounds like conflicting laws and bullshit


In such a case ... you'd have to buy an ounce ... go home and go back to buy another ounce.

Under Prop 19, you're only allowed to sell and buy 1 ounce at a time.


----------



## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> In such a case ... you'd have to buy an ounce ... go home and go back to buy another ounce.
> 
> Under Prop 19, you're only allowed to sell and buy 1 ounce at a time.


So you are encouraging people to keep illegal amounts in their homes?

The law clearly states that you MAY NOT possess more than one ounce.

So, you grow 3.25 pounds, and run 3.1875 pounds down the garbage disposal, one ounce at a time?

LOL!

This is too easy....


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> So you are encouraging people to keep illegal amounts in their homes?
> 
> The law clearly states that you MAY NOT possess more than one ounce.
> 
> ...



Where in the law does it state you're not allowed to store more than 1 ounce of harvested marijuana in your home? I don't see any weight limits.
_
(iii) Possess on the premises where grown the living and harvested plants and results of any harvest and processing of plants lawfully cultivated pursuant to section 11300(a)(ii), for personal consumption._

Prop 19 allows you to store as much harvested marijuana in YOUR HOME as you want.

Better yet ... Prop 19 keeps law enforcement out of your home for marijuana-related activities. PERIOD.


Too easy? Yeah ... ignoring the facts as they are written and making ignorant comments tends to be pretty easy.


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Where in the law does it state you're not allowed to store more than 1 ounce of harvested marijuana in your home? I don't see any weight limits.
> _
> (iii) Possess on the premises *where grown *the living and harvested plants and results of any harvest and processing of plants lawfully cultivated pursuant to section 11300(a)(ii), for personal consumption._
> 
> ...


it clearly says "where grown". what if you don't grow?

and by it being "regulated" it gives them EVERY right to come in and check your grow. otherwise there would be NO LIMITS.


----------



## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Where in the law does it state you're not allowed to store more than 1 ounce of harvested marijuana in your home? I don't see any weight limits.
> _
> (iii) Possess on the premises where grown the living and harvested plants and results of any harvest and processing of plants lawfully cultivated pursuant to section 11300(a)(ii), for personal consumption._
> 
> ...


You put it in bold. Put yourself in a LEO's shoes who comes to your home and finds 10 pounds. Prove that you grew it.

_"(i) Personally *possess, process, share, or transport* *not more than one ounce of cannabis*, solely for that individual&#8217;s personal consumption, and not for sale."

_See _*"possess"*_ ?


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> it clearly says "where grown". what if you don't grow?
> 
> and by it being "regulated" it gives them EVERY right to come in and check your grow. otherwise there would be NO LIMITS.



"The reason I have all this marijuana officer is because I just got done with a grow" See... was that hard? And no, the cops don't have any right to enter your home just because your smoking marijuana and they can see it through the window.


_Section 11303: Seizure_
_(a) Notwithstanding sections 11470 and 11479 of the Health and Safety Code or any other provision of law, *no state or local law enforcement agency or official shall attempt to, threaten to, or in fact seize or destroy any cannabis plant, cannabis seeds or cannabis that is lawfully cultivated, processed, transported, possessed, possessed for sale, sold *or used in compliance with this Act or any local government ordinance, law or regulation adopted pursuant to this Act._​_
So unless you're dumb enough to tell a cop you're breaking the law .... They have NO REASONABLE SUSPICION ... NO JUST CAUSE. They can't enter your home PERIOD.
_


----------



## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

So again, you are suggesting we break the law, but just keep it quiet?

Just like the good old days, before Prop 215.

Been there, done that, and don't want to go back.

Who is paying you to do this?


----------



## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Where in the law does it state you're not allowed to store more than 1 ounce of harvested marijuana in your home? I don't see any weight limits.


i do for prop 19 ONE Oz..where does it say u can have more but just cant carry more then a oz?? lol bullshit


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> You put it in bold. Put yourself in a LEO's shoes who comes to your home and finds 10 pounds. Prove that you grew it.
> 
> _"(i) Personally *possess, process, share, or transport* *not more than one ounce of cannabis*, solely for that individual&#8217;s personal consumption, and not for sale."
> 
> _See _*"possess"*_ ?


_*
(b) living and harvested cannabis plants shall be assessed by square footage, not by weight in determining the amounts set forth in section 11300(a);*_



Did YOU even read Prop 19?


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> So again, you are suggesting we break the law, but just keep it quiet?
> 
> Just like the good old days, before Prop 215.
> 
> ...


My suggestion would be to grow marijuana is you wish to possess more than 1 ounce at a time if you want to obey the law.

If not ... throw some soil in a pot and you'll beable to store as much maryjane as you want.


----------



## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

Cali.Grown>408 said:


> i do for prop 19 ONE Oz..where does it say u can have more but just cant carry more then a oz?? lol bullshit


That's the point. People like tc1 are showing up, brand new members on many sites and post about nothing but Prop 19, defending it by repeating "legal" without backing it up or addressing other's concerns.

Very much like those who voted for George W. Bush, twice.

Mindless drones, or paid help.

Which is it?


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> "The reason I have all this marijuana officer is because I just got done with a grow" See... was that hard? And no, the cops don't have any right to enter your home just because your smoking marijuana and they can see it through the window.
> 
> 
> _Section 11303: Seizure_
> ...



so you are asking me to lie about my marijuana use? isn't that what we already do? reasonable suspicion is the fact that you have pot period. they suspect you have TOO much or that your grow room is TOO big. or maybe a child is present. prop 19 gives them all kinds of reasons to enter your home. especially when you lie and thumb your nose at them.


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

Cali.Grown>408 said:


> i do for prop 19 ONE Oz..where does it say u can have more but just cant carry more then a oz?? lol bullshit



Right here ...

_*(b) living and harvested cannabis plants shall be assessed by square footage, not by weight in determining the amounts set forth in section 11300(a);*_


----------



## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> My suggestion would be to grow marijuana is you wish to possess more than 1 ounce at a time if you want to obey the law.
> 
> If not ... throw some soil in a pot and you'll beable to store as much maryjane as you want.


Eat shit, shill.


----------



## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

wow tc1 ur falling apart bro.."excuse me officer i have all this weed cuz i just got done with a grow" lol wtf no cop would just take ur word for it like that..u swear like u can read the future..just give up ur ego is to big for your own good


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> so you are asking me to lie about my marijuana use? isn't that what we already do? reasonable suspicion is the fact that you have pot period. they suspect you have TOO much or that your grow room is TOO big. or maybe a child is present. prop 19 gives them all kinds of reasons to enter your home. especially when you lie and thumb your nose at them.



What kind of false information is that?

The cops NEVER have the right to enter your home without your permission or a search warrant.

I'm not asking anyone to break the law. Under Prop 19 everything I have mentioned is perfectly legal.


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> My suggestion would be to grow marijuana is you wish to possess more than 1 ounce at a time if you want to obey the law.
> 
> If not ... throw some soil in a pot and you'll beable to store as much maryjane as you want.



you can't be serious.


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

_*(b) living and harvested cannabis plants shall be assessed by square footage, not by weight in determining the amounts set forth in section 11300(a);


*_Nowhere does it say you can only store 1 ounce of harvested marijuana in your home. FACT


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> What kind of false information is that?
> 
> The cops NEVER have the right to enter your home without your permission or a search warrant.
> 
> I'm not asking anyone to break the law. Under Prop 19 everything I have mentioned is perfectly legal.


you just told me to lie and say i finished a grow. prop 19 opens your front door. and you're the one allowing it.


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

And NEWSFLASH ... you medical patients are ALREADY breaking the law.

There is no federal medical marijuana law.....


----------



## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Right here ...
> 
> _*(b) living and harvested cannabis plants shall be assessed by square footage, not by weight in determining the amounts set forth in section 11300(a);*_


R U RETARDED..GOD how many times u ganna say it..show me where it says u can have over an oz at your house just not on your person..im not talking about growing it


----------



## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Right here ...
> 
> _*(b) living and harvested cannabis plants shall be assessed by square footage, not by weight in determining the amounts set forth in section 11300(a);*_


But you better only have an ounce when you're done trimming...

That is just a bone thrown to those who went to court with five pounds of wet moldy weed in an evidence bag.

Cops didn't always admit knowing there was a difference between an immature six foot bush, and an ounce of hash, when figuring weights and street value.

Truly meaningless, and another example of how this law was cobbled together with no thought for consistency and justice.


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> _*(b) living and harvested cannabis plants shall be assessed by square footage, not by weight in determining the amounts set forth in section 11300(a);
> 
> 
> *_Nowhere does it say you can only store 1 ounce of harvested marijuana in your home. FACT



i'm pretty sure this was written in to cover WET weed that so happens to be drying or still on the plant. why is "weight" even addressed? because there is a LIMIT, that's why.


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

Cali.Grown>408 said:


> i do for prop 19 ONE Oz..where does it say u can have more but just cant carry more then a oz?? lol bullshit


I already showed you.


Try and keep up.


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> And NEWSFLASH ... you medical patients are ALREADY breaking the law.
> 
> There is no federal medical marijuana law.....


so we certainly don't need prop 19, do we?


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> i'm pretty sure this was written in to cover WET weed that so happens to be drying or still on the plant. why is "weight" even addressed? because there is a LIMIT, that's why.


What part of "not by weight" means "by weight"?


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> so we certainly don't need prop 19, do we?



Riiight ... because one day the heavens will open up and the federal government will decide to end prohibition.

Come'on man. It's obvious why we need states to legalize marijuana.


----------



## TokinPodPilot (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> My suggestion would be to grow marijuana is you wish to possess more than 1 ounce at a time if you want to obey the law.
> 
> If not ... throw some soil in a pot and you'll beable to store as much maryjane as you want.


Hmm... despite your numerous erroneous arguments and infantile assessment of the legal ramifications, I think I'm still going to stick with the 20 years of experiences as defendant, witness and juror in numerous cannabis related trials and vote no on Prop. 19 still. But keep trying to pay for the rights you already have and either are ignorant of, or just choose to ignore because it doesn't support your argument.


----------



## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> I already showed you.
> 
> 
> Try and keep up.


lol u try n keep up bud..that was old lol..u getting over whelmed here?? might as well leave..


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

TokinPodPilot said:


> Hmm... despite your numerous erroneous arguments and infantile assessment of the legal ramifications, I think I'm still going to stick with the 20 years of experiences as defendant, witness and juror in numerous cannabis related trials and vote no on Prop. 19 still. But keep trying to pay for the rights you already have and either are ignorant of, or just choose to ignore because it doesn't support your argument.



What rights to marijuana do we have?

The right to get a medical card? That doesn't keep the DEA away if they see fit. "I've got the right to be busted by the DEA and be sent to prison for 5+ years" YIPPEE!


----------



## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Right here ...
> 
> _*(b) living and harvested cannabis plants shall be assessed by square footage, not by weight in determining the amounts set forth in section 11300(a);*_


u must be really overwhelmed seeing u responded twice to one message lol didnt know what u were getting into did ye?


----------



## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> And NEWSFLASH ... you medical patients are ALREADY breaking the law.
> 
> There is no federal medical marijuana law.....


DUDE!

The FEDS KNOW WHO I AM, and WHERE I LIVE.

Think about that...

Ever wonder why a medical marijuana case has never been ruled on by the Supreme Court, other than one narrow decision that made no change in any law.(Angel Raisch). The feds do NOT want certain individuals going through the appeals process.

Pretty much the same reason the DEA refuses to prosecute dispensary owners, solely based on their business. They will prosecute if they find evidence of tax evasion.


----------



## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> What rights to marijuana do we have?
> 
> The right to get a medical card? That doesn't keep the DEA away if they see fit. "I've got the right to be busted by the DEA and be sent to prison for 5+ years" YIPPEE!


no u dont lol the PRESIDENT said no more raids in california


----------



## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> What rights to marijuana do we have?
> 
> The right to get a medical card? That doesn't keep the DEA away if they see fit. "I've got the right to be busted by the DEA and be sent to prison for 5+ years" YIPPEE!


LOL!

So Prop 19 will change federal law?

You're going in circles, DUDE!


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

Cali.Grown>408 said:


> u must be really overwhelmed seeing u responded twice to one message lol didnt know what u were getting into did ye?



Your internet tough guy routine adds no substance to this thread.

Perhaps you should be the one who leaves ...


----------



## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

are u even from cali? u seem to be lost


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> LOL!
> 
> So Prop 19 will change federal law?
> 
> You're going in circles, DUDE!



Where did I say it would? Oh, I didn't. Putting words in my mouth just like your attempt to erase what is written in Prop 19.

Prop 19 won't make marijuana legal federally ... but it sure as hell will be the first brick to come down from the wall.


----------



## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Your internet tough guy routine adds no substance to this thread.
> 
> Perhaps you should be the one who leaves ...


y am i a tough guy? are u scared? u seem overwhelmed in this thread bud..and all u spit is BS so how bout u take ur prop 19 argument and shove it up ur U KNOW WHAT


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> What part of "not by weight" means "by weight"?


who said "by weight"? you completely missed my point.

try to keep up.


----------



## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

Cali.Grown>408 said:


> are u even from cali? u seem to be lost


Good point.

Maybe Bombay?


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Riiight ... because one day the heavens will open up and the federal government will decide to end prohibition.
> 
> Come'on man. It's obvious why we need states to legalize marijuana.


you are contradicting yourself now.


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

So veggie ... how much you charge those patients you care so much about for their marijuana?

No need to hide your interior motives behind voting no on Prop 19.


----------



## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

he said the first brick..dude are u even a patient?? i bet u smoke weed illegally now thats y ur going on and on, just go get ur state card and shut up.


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> What rights to marijuana do we have?
> 
> The right to get a medical card? That doesn't keep the DEA away if they see fit. "I've got the right to be busted by the DEA and be sent to prison for 5+ years" YIPPEE!


prop 19 won't change this.


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> you are contradicting yourself now.



How so? Prop 19 isn't going to legalize marijuana federally. But the continued reactions of STATES legalizing it will. How is that a contradiction?


----------



## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Where did I say it would? Oh, I didn't. Putting words in my mouth just like your attempt to erase what is written in Prop 19.
> 
> Prop 19 won't make marijuana legal federally ... but it sure as hell will be the first brick to come down from the wall.


Sorry.

Prop 19 will do just the reverse.

Vote NO on Prop 19.


----------



## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> So veggie ... how much you charge those patients you care so much about for their marijuana?
> 
> No need to hide your interior motives behind voting no on Prop 19.


man prices are at there lowest..im getting 55dollar quarters some are still like 100 a quarter but i've been noticing that the prices have already been going down the past 6months


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> prop 19 won't change this.



It will in the end.


Only a fool would think California legalizing marijuana wont have a rippled effect on national marijuana policies.


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> So veggie ... how much you charge those patients you care so much about for their marijuana?
> 
> No need to hide your interior motives behind voting no on Prop 19.


backed into the corner and kitty has claws.


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> It will in the end.
> 
> 
> Only a fool would think California legalizing marijuana wont have a rippled effect on national marijuana policies.



*rolls out crystal ball*


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> backed into the corner and kitty has claws.



Coming from people who say something lawful means it's illegal and "not by weight" means "by weight"

Yeah ... I'm backed up in a corner alright. lol


----------



## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> How so? Prop 19 isn't going to legalize marijuana federally. But the continued reactions of STATES legalizing it will. How is that a contradiction?


I guess you weren't paying attention in high school Civics.

Under the Constitution, and the reason no broad based appeal to legalize has reached the Supreme Court is that the original Marihuana Tax Act, and all other statutes regarding Cannabis are Constitutionally irrelevant.

The issue has ALWAYS been about "State's Rights". 

Obama is the first president since Jimmy Carter to attempt to let a little sanity into the Fed's position.

Of course, he ran into a brick wall of opposition from the DEA and every other government and corporate entity that saw this costing them money.

Follow the money.

Oh, that's right. You get paid to do this.


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Coming from people who say something lawful means it's illegal and "not by weight" means "by weight"
> 
> Yeah ... I'm backed up in a corner alright. lol


please show me where i said "by weight". once again, you missed my point and you are arguing against yourself.

you made a PERSONAL ATTACK because you had no other defense. it shows desperation on your part. try to stay on the debate and not make it personal. people will better respect you that way.


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> I guess you weren't paying attention in high school Civics.
> 
> Under the Constitution, and the reason no broad based appeal to legalize has reached the Supreme Court is that the original Marihuana Tax Act, and all other statutes regarding Cannabis are Constitutionally irrelevant.
> 
> ...



I don't profit a single penny from ANYTHING marijuana related and I work hard for my money.
But given your stern stance and unwillingness to call things how they are written ... I question whether you are.


And don't tell me that marijuana is a state right. Then why are people STILL going to FEDERAL prison for marijuana? Why are Medical Marijuana facilities STILL being raided by federal agents? It wont be a state right until Cali along with other states decide to legalize it themselves.


----------



## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> So veggie ... how much you charge those patients you care so much about for their marijuana?
> 
> No need to hide your interior motives behind voting no on Prop 19.


Stupid, aren't you?

I get nothing for it. Basically I provide for my wife. My son and I use almost all the rest.

The 4th person is my oldest friend.

We never charged each other 40 years ago. Why start now?

Nice try.


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> please show me where i said "by weight". once again, you missed my point and you are arguing against yourself.
> 
> you made a PERSONAL ATTACK because you had no other defense. it shows desperation on your part. try to stay on the debate and not make it personal. people will better respect you that way.



LOL @ crying about personal attacks. Have you READ what these people have been saying to me? (long before I even made that comment) I guess that shows desperation on their part too huh?


----------



## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

I guess I must admit, my buddy has been known to buy me breakfast once in a while.

Does that count?


----------



## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Stupid, aren't you?



That's like Michael Moore calling Michael Phelps fat ...


----------



## medicalsb420 (Sep 27, 2010)

if you've been in the game 20yrs+ , raise yer fuckin hands! you youngster fuckin idiots need to listen to that man "veggiegardener", believe it or not he's looking out for a culture most of you fucks are so quick to sell out! fuckin kids talkin about "growers need real jobs"... listen you little pricks, theres people out here who have been strongly supplying all you little stoners for 50 fucken years- long before you planted yer first little clone! show some gratitude. if these people hadnt risked life and limb while it was still ILLEGAL we wouldnt have shit today as far as a legal movement. why are you so quick to build an empire for DICKHEAD LEE? fuck that perpetrating piece of shit! read this bill... analyze it.. go to school and learn basic economic theory.. review the current u.s farm bill... then speak up on 19. 19 is a clear representation of babylon deuche bags fucking our culture up the ass. as it stands we have the power thru 215-19 will change this.PROP 19 WILL CRIPPLE THE MEDICAL MOVEMENT.


----------



## TokinPodPilot (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> What rights to marijuana so we have?
> 
> The right to get a medical card? That doesn't keep the DEA away if they see fit. "I've got the right to be busted by the DEA and be sent to prison for 5+ years" YIPPEE!


Prop. 19 has no authority and nothing to do with the DEA. Nice deflection, but the utter lack of relevance is rather pathetic.

In any case, since Prop. 19 can only address state law and state law actually already allows for personal consumption and cultivation for personal consumption. Yes, you get a misdemeanor. It's also the only misdemeanor without jail time or arrest/detainment. You get a $100 fine and occasionally have to take a fairly lame "rehab" class. Aside from the misdemeanor charge, this is basically akin to getting a speeding ticket and doing traffic school. In addition, there is currently legislation that is sitting on the Governor desk to lower that offense to an infraction, removing the misdemeanor charge. In fact, the only thing that is really expressly illegal and will definitely land you jail time is "intent to sell" or "proof of sales" for recreational users. But, I expect that like most pro-19er's you'll piss and moan that it's not enough and it's not progress, etc. It's rather predictable at this point. In fact, there is no current limits on garden size for personal consumption. Granted if you have a fairly large one or large numbers of plants, you'll possibly be investigated for potential sales. But, the fact that you aren't selling and the services of a decent cannabis lawyer and that's easily beaten in court. The only thing that Prop. 19 adds is commercial sales for recreational users, a regulatory system with supporting tax structure, and limits on personal consumption which do not exist under current legislation.

And as for you're ridiculous argument that people are abusing Prop 215 and the medical cannabis system. As someone that was there gathering signatures and asking pertinent questions of the writers, no one is abusing the medical system. Prop 215 is for ANYONE that derives ANY benefits whatsoever to quality of life from the use of cannabis. If you'd rather take a rip of cush rather than take aspirin for your headache, that is your right under Prop. 215. Your regular doctor doesn't want to give you a recommendation, then you find one that will. It's no different than any other medical situation.


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2010)

medicalsb420 said:


> if you've been in the game 20yrs+ , raise yer fuckin hands! you youngster fuckin idiots need to listen to that man "veggiegardener", believe it or not he's looking out for a culture most of you fucks are so quick to sell out! fuckin kids talkin about "growers need real jobs"... listen you little pricks, theres people out here who have been strongly supplying all you little stoners for 50 fucken years- long before you planted yer first little clone! show some gratitude. if these people hadnt risked life and limb while it was still ILLEGAL we wouldnt have shit today as far as a legal movement. why are you so quick to build an empire for DICKHEAD LEE? fuck that perpetrating piece of shit! read this bill... analyze it.. go to school and learn basic economic theory.. review the current u.s farm bill... then speak up on 19. 19 is a clear representation of babylon deuche bags fucking our culture up the ass. as it stands we have the power thru 215-19 will change this.PROP 19 WILL CRIPPLE THE MEDICAL MOVEMENT.


you said "cripple".


----------



## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> I don't profit a single penny from ANYTHING marijuana related and I work hard for my money.
> But given your stern stance and unwillingness to call things how they are written ... I question whether you are.
> 
> 
> And don't tell me that marijuana is a state right. Then why are people STILL going to FEDERAL prison for marijuana? Why are Medical Marijuana facilities STILL being raided by federal agents? It wont be a state right until Cali along with other states decide to legalize it themselves.



Exactly.

I want marijuana legalized, not regulated into oblivion.

If you don't make a dime, you value your time too cheaply. If prop 19 passes, its authors will make a ton of money, selling you pot for $400/oz.

I don't think you'll get much smoke out of your 25 sq. ft.

You strike me as someone who refuses to learn.

Sometimes called a "Seed Killer".


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

medicalsb420 said:


> if you've been in the game 20yrs+ , raise yer fuckin hands! you youngster fuckin idiots need to listen to that man "veggiegardener", believe it or not he's looking out for a culture most of you fucks are so quick to sell out! fuckin kids talkin about "growers need real jobs"... listen you little pricks, theres people out here who have been strongly supplying all you little stoners for 50 fucken years- long before you planted yer first little clone! show some gratitude. if these people hadnt risked life and limb while it was still ILLEGAL we wouldnt have shit today as far as a legal movement. why are you so quick to build an empire for DICKHEAD LEE? fuck that perpetrating piece of shit! read this bill... analyze it.. go to school and learn basic economic theory.. review the current u.s farm bill... then speak up on 19. 19 is a clear representation of babylon deuche bags fucking our culture up the ass. as it stands we have the power thru 215-19 will change this.PROP 19 WILL CRIPPLE THE MEDICAL MOVEMENT.



_"Those who give up liberty in order to gain security do not deserve, nor shall they have either."_ - Thomas Jefferson.

Prop 19 wont cripple the medical marijuana movement ... it will ENFORCE the rights of LIBERTY for responsible adults to use marijuana in any way they see fit.


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Exactly.
> 
> I want marijuana legalized, not regulated into oblivion.
> 
> ...



You're living in a dream world if you think marijuana is going to be legalized without any regulation.
The ONLY way marijuana is going to be legalized is if we treat it the same way we treat alcohol ... regulated and taxed.


And you can't possibly believe if marijuana is legalized ... thus more accessible ... that marijuana will increase in price. Did alcohol become more expensive after the end of prohibition? Hell no, the price dramatically dropped.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> _"Those who give up liberty in order to gain security do not deserve, nor shall they have either."_ - Thomas Jefferson.
> 
> Prop 19 wont cripple the medical marijuana movement ... it will ENFORCE the rights of LIBERTY for responsible adults to use marijuana in any way they see fit.


as long as your grow is under 25 sqf, and you carry less than an ounce, and no kids are present, and, ...........


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## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 who are u?? u aint nobody stop talking like ur thomas jefferson or martin luther..ur dreams are JUST dreams u dont even know what ur talking about..read medical420 and tokinpods post..and everybody else's


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## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> as long as your grow is under 25 sqf, and you carry less than an ounce, and no kids are present, and, ...........


for real thats bullshit..how bout "its legal so grow as much as u want, it's like a fruit or a flower now" then i would vote yes


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

Cali.Grown>408 said:


> tc1 who are u?? u aint nobody stop talking like ur thomas jefferson or martin luther..ur dreams are JUST dreams u dont even know what ur talking about..read medical420 and tokinpods post..and everybody else's



u aint nobody either. stop talking like yous know someten. ur opinions are JUST ur opinions. u dont know what ur talking bout either.


LMFAO


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## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2010)

i'm gonna run to the liquor barn and pick me up a few kegs of IPA.


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## medicalsb420 (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> _"Those who give up liberty in order to gain security do not deserve, nor shall they have either."_ - Thomas Jefferson.
> 
> i couldnt agree more... the way i see it tho. you are the one giving up liberties (we already have) for security (we already enjoy).
> 
> i offer you this; i'll trade you $10 for a crispy $100. by your pro-19 logic, you should love that deal.


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> as long as your grow is under 25 sqf, and you carry less than an ounce, and no kids are present, and, ...........



Gotta start somewhere ....

Did you vote for Prop 215? Was it perfect? Or were you one of those people who said "I can't vote for this, too many loopholes and poor writing, I'll wait until something better comes around" Sound familiar?

And exactly what's wrong with not smoking while a kid is present? I don't approve of exposing children to second hand marijuana smoke either. Prop 19 says NOTHING about it being illegal to smoke marijuana on the same PREMISES of a child. You simply can not smoke in front of a child.


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

medicalsb420 said:


> tc1 said:
> 
> 
> > _"Those who give up liberty in order to gain security do not deserve, nor shall they have either."_ - Thomas Jefferson.
> ...


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## TokinPodPilot (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> _"Those who give up liberty in order to gain security do not deserve, nor shall they have either."_ - Thomas Jefferson.
> 
> Prop 19 wont cripple the medical marijuana movement ... it will ENFORCE the rights of LIBERTY for responsible adults to use marijuana in any way they see fit.


An intellectual quote doesn't really bestow any intellect to you. Your argument is still pretty shallow and naive. Assuming you're on the level and actually believe this tripe your spewing and are not just spewing talking points. Can't quite tell if you're a colluder or capitulant. Either way, the proposition is far to ambiguously worded for you to give ANY assurances against misinterpretation, especially given the propensity of law enforcement and government agencies to decide against the cannabis community. Prop 215 was purposely ambiguous in favor of patients/the public. Prop 19 is purposely ambiguous in favor of law enforcement and government agencies, the majority of which see us as a scourge on society still.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Gotta start somewhere ....
> 
> Did you vote for Prop 215? Was it perfect? Or were you one of those people who said "I can't vote for this, too many loopholes and poor writing, I'll wait until something better comes around" Sound familiar?
> 
> ...


um, prop 215 wasn't poorly written.


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## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> u aint nobody either. stop talking like yous know someten. ur opinions are JUST ur opinions. u dont know what ur talking bout either.
> 
> 
> LMFAO



Unfortunately, your opinions are worthless. 

His aren't.


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## medicalsb420 (Sep 27, 2010)

tc- you little fucking peon! nobody is against progression in the movement. THIS BILL IS BULLSHIT! this is NOT the bill for our culture. You are blinded by the shine of what is being called "legalization." you have no sense of defending whats been made of this culture- probably because you have next to nothing to do with the advancements that have been made. I am in fact acting on my patriotic sentiments of not taking shit. this bill is profiteer bullshit, that will CRIPPLE the medical movement we have worked so hard to make feasible. this bill needs to be thrown in the fucking trash.


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## medicalsb420 (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> medicalsb420 said:
> 
> 
> > You're giving up your freedom to smoke marijuana because you have the freedom to do so for any number of reasons in order to gain the security of Prop 215. (Even though they are two ENTIRELY different bills).
> ...


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## medicalsb420 (Sep 27, 2010)

in the long run..


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## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2010)

[video=youtube;dY7OtNfWahw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY7OtNfWahw[/video]


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## veggiegardener (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Gotta start somewhere ....
> 
> Did you vote for Prop 215? Was it perfect? Or were you one of those people who said "I can't vote for this, too many loopholes and poor writing, I'll wait until something better comes around" Sound familiar?
> 
> And exactly what's wrong with not smoking while a kid is present? I don't approve of exposing children to second hand marijuana smoke either. Prop 19 says NOTHING about it being illegal to smoke marijuana on the same PREMISES of a child. You simply can not smoke in front of a child.


So your kid is pissed because you confiscated his Ipod and mentions to his teacher that you smoked in front of him?

Ooops!

Now the cops have come over, and discovered your plants cover 25.5 sq. ft!

And you suggest we just break the law, but keep quiet?

I think you're going to have a lot of problems if 19 passes.


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

medicalsb420 said:


> tc1 said:
> 
> 
> > YOU PURPLE LITTLE ASSHOLE! what you describe is 19!
> ...


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> So your kid is pissed because you confiscated his Ipod and mentions to his teacher that you smoked in front of him?
> 
> Ooops!
> 
> ...


You smoked in front of your child ... you broke the law.

You grew more than the designated 25 square foot ... you broke the law.


I'm not encouraging either of those two things. Hence ... "the possession, sale, and cultivation for *responsible *adults". You have the opportunity to legalize .. YES legalize (deal with it) ....

And you're huffing and puffing because you cant expose kids to second hand marijuana smoke or exceed 25sft? Really?


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## medicalsb420 (Sep 27, 2010)

desperate? no, i'm fine. i'll be fine no matter what happens in nov. however i do hope all the people 19 does affect financially come to your house first. marijuana has been a medicine for 5000 years dick.


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

"I want marijuana to just be legal ... no regulation ... no taxes ... just free the weed man" = Another 70 years of prohibition.


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## TokinPodPilot (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Desperate are we?
> 
> 
> No ... legalizing the possession, sale, and cultivation of marijuana for EVERYONE is not the same as classifying marijuana as medicine and treating it as such.


Once again, possession and cultivation for personal consumption are not illegal. Only sales are. Cannabis has been medicine for thousands of years. Seriously, if your argument is that you don't want to have to call it medicine, then that's just kind of sad. At least our objections to the clauses regarding the presence of children and garden limits are reasonable due to the fact that the language of the bill is ambiguous. Just because you can't be arsed to stand up for your rights is no reason to vote in blanket policy legislation that can have very disastrous results in many unpredictable ways.


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## Matt Rize (Sep 27, 2010)

http://www.steephilllab.com/industryreport/sept-oct-2010.pdf

Here goes Steep Hill Lab's report, They cover some of the possible affects of Prop on 19 on medical Cannabis.

"1- Shrinking of doctors&#8217; sector. It seems feasible that if patients can get their cannabis without a doctor&#8217;s recommendation, they will do so.

2- Reduction of cannabis price overall. While this seems inevitable, Prop. 19 passing or not, the passing could speed up the process. Low income patients who cannot afford recommendations would be able to utilize local dispensaries. The increased demand would be met with increased supply and increased competition from dispensaries. This is a recipe for lower prices on the retail side.

3- Increased effort from outdoor growers to market their products. Outdoor cannabis is far cheaper to produce than indoor. With more price declines, outdoor cannabis becomes more competitive. Technological advances in outdoor growing are already closing the gap between indoor and high- end outdoor quality cannabis. With marketing, consumers may begin to migrate back to outdoor cannabis. 

4- Expansion of capital investment from other industries. Investors are waiting for legalization. Hundreds of millions of dollars will &#64258;ow into the industry over the next &#64257;ve years." Big up the researchers! Some really interesting ideas here, like the outdoor gaining in popularity. GO STEEP HILL LAB!


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

medicalsb420 said:


> desperate? no, i'm fine. i'll be fine no matter what happens in nov. however i do hope all the people 19 does affect financially come to your house first. marijuana has been a medicine for 5000 years dick.



Yeah ... but it hasn't been regulated by the FDA for 5000 years ... Which is EXACTLY what will happen ONCE enough states pass medical laws and the federal government caves.

Then we're looking at a state of permanent medicalization and an even MORE uphill battle towards legalization.
Then you and every other medical marijuana patient will be told if you're sick enough and/or where you have to buy your medicine.


If you think the wild wild west medical marijuana programs are going to last forever ... you've got another thing coming. The government will eventually say "You want it as medicine? Fine ... we're going to treat it like medicine".


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## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> u aint nobody either. stop talking like yous know someten. ur opinions are JUST ur opinions. u dont know what ur talking bout either.
> 
> 
> LMFAO


LMAO u cant even spell something fool and everybodys opinions are JUST there opinions lol..IDIOT and i know for a fact i know what im talking about and u just admitted u dont know what ur talking about..u said and i quote "u dont know what ur talking bout either" lol


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## Matt Rize (Sep 27, 2010)

Cali.Grown>408 said:


> LMAO u cant even spell something fool and everybodys opinions are JUST there opinions lol..IDIOT and i know for a fact i know what im talking about and u just admitted u dont know what ur talking about..u said and i quote "u dont know what ur talking bout either" lol


Uh... enough guys. It is entertaining, but: Back to PROP 19. YES/NO WHY?


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

TokinPodPilot said:


> Once again, possession and cultivation for personal consumption are not illegal. Only sales are. Cannabis has been medicine for thousands of years. Seriously, if your argument is that you don't want to have to call it medicine, then that's just kind of sad. At least our objections to the clauses regarding the presence of children and garden limits are reasonable due to the fact that the language of the bill is ambiguous. Just because you can't be arsed to stand up for your rights is no reason to vote in blanket policy legislation that can have very disastrous results in many unpredictable ways.


Why do you insist on pretending like I don't believe in Medical Marijuana? I absolutely do ... so let's get that out of the way.

My argument is that ANYONE should be able to use marijuana ... a substance safer than alcohol. It shouldn't matter WHY you need it. The only thing that should matter is that it's your RIGHT to use it.

Several years ago I witnessed a family member struggle with cancer before he passed away. I grew marijuana for him to ease the pain. Don't sit here and tell me I don't believe in medical marijuana.


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

Cali.Grown>408 said:


> LMAO u cant even spell something fool and everybodys opinions are JUST there opinions lol..IDIOT and i know for a fact i know what im talking about and u just admitted u dont know what ur talking about..u said and i quote "u dont know what ur talking bout either" lol



You have smoked yourself retarded.

Never thought it was possible ... But indeed it clearly is.


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## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

how many damn reasons do u need matt..this thread is on it's 33page or so lol


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## Cali.Grown>408 (Sep 27, 2010)

tc1 said:


> You have smoked yourself retarded.
> 
> Never thought it was possible ... But indeed it clearly is.


like wise..i wanted u to know how u sound..we can do this all day


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## tc1 (Sep 27, 2010)

Ummm ... yeah.

Re-editing your posts isn't gonna make you look like you didn't ride the short bus.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2010)

closed due to insults.


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