# Should you cut off fan leaves during flowering



## baggins1986 (Dec 14, 2008)

i have 4 plants 2 weeks into their flowering stage. i have been told that cutting off some of the fan leaves will allow more light to reach the lower flowers. does this work or do the fan leaves act as light catchers for nutrients? thanks alot


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## TRICKKY (Dec 14, 2008)

I wouldn't really recommend cutting large fan leaves from your plant. Yes They do catch light and convert to food, so if you look at it this way, you would be cutting a big food catcher so that a smaller food catcher could catch light.

The smaller leaf is obviously not going to be as efficient as the large leaf.


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## zidzag (Dec 14, 2008)

TRICKKY said:


> I wouldn't really recommend cutting large fan leaves from your plant. Yes They do catch light and convert to food, so if you look at it this way, you would be cutting a big food catcher so that a smaller food catcher could catch light.
> 
> The smaller leaf is obviously not going to be as efficient as the large leaf.



agree, imo i would only cut bad leaves.


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## TRICKKY (Dec 14, 2008)

However....

If, say at week 6 you have a large fan leaf that is yellow and soon to die off from lack of Nitrogen. It would than probably be better to cut it off so that any healthy leaves it is blocking could more efficiently use the light.

Again tho, I would wait until it is nearly dying as up until then the plant will be taking nutes (nitrogen) from the larger fan leaves and using it.


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## timpaperclip (Dec 14, 2008)

There's also a chance you could send it into shock if the leaves stem is wide enough


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## socalkushman (Dec 14, 2008)

plants are more substenint to shock during flowering..unless the leafs dead..leave it..even being nitrogen defecient....any green means its still alive!


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## RL420 (Dec 14, 2008)

baggins1986 said:


> i have 4 plants 2 weeks into their flowering stage. i have been told that cutting off some of the fan leaves will allow more light to reach the lower flowers. does this work or do the fan leaves act as light catchers for nutrients? thanks alot


LET IT GROW.

don't cut, cutting the fan leaves off might create a metabolic imbalance.


"Removing large amounts of leaves may interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. If this metabolic change occurs too late in the season it could interfere with floral development and delay maturation. If any floral inhibitors are removed, the intended effect of accelerating flowering will probably be counteracted by metabolic upset in the plant. Removal of shade leaves does facilitate more light reaching the center of the plant, but if there is not enough food energy produced in the leaves, the small internal floral clusters will probably not grow any larger. Leaf removal may also cause sex reversal resulting from a metabolic change."

marijuana botany chapter 2.


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## newbgrower944 (Dec 14, 2008)

hmmm. i just cut off like a shitload of lower branches and fan leaves that weren't getting any light so I would get more of a huge main bud then little lollypops.
ill make another thread later


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## RL420 (Dec 14, 2008)

newbgrower944 said:


> hmmm. i just cut off like a shitload of lower branches and fan leaves that weren't getting any light so I would get more of a huge main bud then little lollypops.
> ill make another thread later


Removing lower stems during flowering is something i also practice.

But..removing fan leaves seems a little bit backwards to what you want to achieve

"Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth sub stances. They also create shade, but at the same time they are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant. Premature removal of leaves may cause stunting, because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced."


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## topfuel29 (Dec 14, 2008)

I've had that problem too. There's a nice flower under this fan leaf.
what do I do?
You do not want to start pruning a flowering plant.
You've got a couple options.
you could tie the leaf up.
you could train the leaf with a small coated wire.
make it grow in a direction that doesn't shade any flowers.

The last resort. you could cut the leaf. Trim it.
you could cut the leaf in half, or remove the whole leaf.
If you cut one leaf your plant isn't gonna go into shock and die.
one or two leafs being cut it's gonna slow the flowering growth.
I've done it before, and you do have to be carefull not to cut
to many leafs, because it will slow the flowering growth.
I'm talking about a plant thats 14 -24 inches tall.
with about 12 or more nodes.
I can see letting light to the lower flowers would promote
a higher THC potency, because of the amount of UV getting to the
flowers as to being shadded.

another thing to consider is plants that have been pruned though
there vegatative cycle are more stressed to being pruned than pants that
haven't been pruned through there vegatative cycle.


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## baggins1986 (Dec 14, 2008)

thanks alot for all your input, i def wont be cutting any leaves off now ha


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## boneyshapeye (Dec 14, 2008)

you could just add a light next 2 the lower branches ;P


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## RL420 (Dec 14, 2008)

topfuel29 said:


> I've had that problem too. There's a nice flower under this fan leaf.
> what do I do?


tuck the fan leaf underneath another stem, thats usually what i do. You can also tie em up like you said


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## Str8y180 (Jan 6, 2009)

On good advise from a long term grower mate i trimmed all my huge fan leaves 5 weeks into flowering which exposed an enormous amount of light to my lower buds. I cant see any adverse affects so far. The plant still has plenty of leaves to photosynthesize or whatever. Its just a weed remember think of the cunts that grow in your gardens, you can smash them with a weedeater and they will still bound back. Ive had plants with branches completely severed off on one whole side and it still lived with vigour so really i think people look too far into it, trim i say and let there be light.


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## the357ink (Jan 6, 2009)

They are resilient, but i would not do anything to shock the plant during flowering..I want 100% concentration of bud growth..imo


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## Dilligaf13 (Nov 14, 2009)

*during flowering be prepared for your leaves to yellow and fall off... unless your bloom nutes have small amounts of nitrogen in them your leaves will yellow... I have personally cut off fan leaves and stems during 1st 2nd 3rd weeks of flowering and have had no problems with stunting or end yield results. Stress/stunting varies upon strand, maturity of plant and growing set up... I have found dwc/hydro recover faster than soil. I also agree with Str8y180 it is a weed and can edure a lot more than you think without effecting yeild. Peace
*


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## Heads Up (Nov 18, 2009)

Once you plants start to flower, fan leaves do present a problem in that they block light to the middle of the plant. You can either remove some here and there completely or you can cut them in half thereby keeping some of the leaf intact. By week five fan leaves are no longer photosynthesis machines for growth, growth of the overall plant has almost stopped and the plant is now putting her energies into making thc trying its best to capture some pollen that is nowhere to be found, but the girls keep trying and producing more and more thc.

I look at it like this, I read as much as possible and then I experiment, after all isn't each and every grow another experiment unless you are an expert and keep to a strict regiment?


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## Philo2 (Nov 18, 2009)

I've taken off nearly all the fan leaves during flowering with no ill effects. During flowering I refer to them as shade leaves. 

Most of the recent studies I have read state that the fan leaves provide no energy to the buds during flowering. All of that energy is absorbed through the leaves on the buds themselves. Thus the fan leaves do nothing for the buds and only absorb nutrients that could be going to the buds.


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## widdopa (Nov 18, 2009)

its actually a herb not a weed and bad advice to cut healthy fan leaves just tie back as suggested. a flowering plant will most always yellow - the best advice is let the plant do its job, it will drop leaves when it doesnt need them.


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## shannonball (Nov 20, 2009)

very good advice to follow...just tie them back or off to the side, but don't cut them off...eventually the larger ones will yellow and drop. 



widdopa said:


> its actually a herb not a weed and bad advice to cut healthy fan leaves just tie back as suggested. a flowering plant will most always yellow - the best advice is let the plant do its job, it will drop leaves when it doesnt need them.


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## GoldenGanja13 (Nov 26, 2009)

Leave leaves alone! Removal of healthy leave hacks up a healthy plant. Removing large or shade leaves DOES NOT make plants more productive. This practice DOES NOT supply more light to smaller leaves and growing tips. Plants need all their leaves to produce the maximum amount of chlorophyll and food. Removing leaves slows chlorophyll production, stresses the plant, and stunts its growth. Stress is a growth inhibitor. Remove only dead leaves or leaves that are more than 50 perfect damages.


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## wyndorf (Nov 27, 2009)

I kind of did the same thing, but have these little scrawny flowers at the bottom of my plant... These aren't developing into much of anything, where as the flowers higher up are getting nice and dense and smelly... Should i remove the little aborts at the bottom that aren't getting much light and aren't developing into anything? I figure this would make the plant focus more on the growth towards the tops...


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## tokealotz (Dec 3, 2009)

good info. i was wandering about the fans myself.


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## Grapeman420 (Dec 3, 2009)

i taje almost every leaf off once the buds are there...


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## RedClaywarrior (Dec 30, 2009)

i've chopped off fan leaves during past grows with no problems. what i did was the last couple of weeks of flowering i'd prune 2-3 leaves a day giving more light to lower plants, but for the record it was an outdoor grow too. i haven't tryed an indoor grow yet. i agree with every saying its a weed. it is very resilient.


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## plaguedog (Dec 30, 2009)

Yeah it's also a plant, not just a weed. Plants use their leaves for energy which intern leads to growth. Cutting off energy sources is just bad basic botany. I don't get were all this bad information come from and how it started. Why prune anything off unless it's 75% dead? It makes no sense, getting more light to bud sites doesn't do a whole lot when it's the leaves on the plant that make and transfer the energy to the buds.


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## VidiotRayM (Jan 1, 2010)

Wow...this is the argument that never ends.... So here's my fence riding position.... I remove any leaf bigger than my middle finger during veg......It's about controlling growth. It makes short , close noded plants....with a healthy root system. It's an adaptation of bonsai techniques. Bound roots and proper pruning create minature copies, which is what sog with clones is all about, As soon as they move to bloom I quit taking leaves and let them bud.....removing lower, nonproductive growth... I guess I'm gonna have to try going a few weeks into bloom to see if it decreases stretch without reducing yield.....but I have a very consistent perpetual going, so I'll just have to get a bug and do it on a few plants out of a batch. Only problem then is the ones without the leaves removed would block the ones with them removed, cheating the outcome........don't like to experiment with full batches..... I love to tinker but I've gotten very lazy and methodical..
Remove if you want to I say.......but a few at a time, not all at once.......to be sure....


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## SIV3L (Jan 6, 2010)

I usually take off the bottom 4 nodes of my plants as they get no good light unless you have good side lighting. I was also under the assumption you want to have good airflow UNDERneath your growing colas. Leaving those on will NOT give you better airflow rather it might restrict it. The upper fan leaves should be stronger than those below not receiving good light and be able to feed your plant adequately.


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## ref (Jan 13, 2010)

I cut my fan leaves and small lengthy leaves 5 days before flowering and 4 weeks into flowering. You do allow more light to enter and more nutrient for your buds.


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## FuZZyBUDz (Jan 13, 2010)

NEVER romve leafes, I learned that the hard way myself!! it promotes maturity, depleets yeild & *GROWTH. *Has FDD been in this thread? look at his crops and yeilds and tell me that u SHOULD clip leafes off.


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## FuZZyBUDz (Jan 13, 2010)

goldenganja13 said:


> leave leaves alone! Removal of healthy leave hacks up a healthy plant. Removing large or shade leaves does not make plants more productive. This practice does not supply more light to smaller leaves and growing tips. Plants need all their leaves to produce the maximum amount of chlorophyll and food. Removing leaves slows chlorophyll production, stresses the plant, and stunts its growth. Stress is a growth inhibitor. Remove only dead leaves or leaves that are more than 50 perfect damages.


 
*best advice in thread!*


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## sambo020482 (Jan 13, 2010)

im a total noob but have always thought it to be bad pratice removing fan leaves or any healthy leaves? 

but the last grow i was involved in 2 blueberry clones in soil, 600hps had 50-70% of the large fan leaves removed 3-4days before flowering and the yield from the 2 was 13oz so i really dont think it done the plants much harm???

and the bottom buds were pretty big! so im really in 2 minds now weather to remove fan leaves from my current grow, i didnt have much control of the plants that the fan leaves were removed from.


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## ref (Jan 14, 2010)

Doesn't matter fuzzy look at my yields a dry p per plant. Everyone has. different opinions by my patients love what I offer and I cut off leaves imma put up some pics for yal hopefully later today.


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## infdjedi (Jan 14, 2010)

I am a relatively new grower and researched this a lot as well. The thing about it is... How many of you who gave your opinion actually conducted a scientific experiment with a side by side comparison of similar genetics? I doubt a lot of folks have.. I sure havent. Im lucky to get things going at all =] I would love to see someone with a real setup and time to do this and document the differences. I think that would be interesting.


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## Metalarc Lemon (Jan 14, 2010)

Lots of succesfull growers and even commercial greenhouses prune off leaves during flower. I have a 16 place hydro set up and have done side by side comparisons with Sensi's super skunk. The pruning does'nt effect the yield at all but does improve taste.


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## ref (Jan 15, 2010)

So there you have it. Case closed. Thanks meta now I got some leaves to prune lol. But trash my buds look like rockets when I de leaf it


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## droskiboy (Jan 15, 2010)

baggins1986 said:


> i have 4 plants 2 weeks into their flowering stage. i have been told that cutting off some of the fan leaves will allow more light to reach the lower flowers. does this work or do the fan leaves act as light catchers for nutrients? thanks alot


 

Cut the leaves that cover the bud spots or trim them round so light can get to the bud spots


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## fatfarmer (Jan 15, 2010)

herbs are use to cook with and has to be trim,cut to be use. then it grows back.even better. so its a weed its a herb, on this i know it will grow.to each his own , but one thing we all do the same is ,CHILL OUT with a little smoke. its alot like working in your yard, what evre looks good to you! FARM ON!


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## BINFORD (Jan 19, 2010)

I just gotta throw my experience out there! I DID cut the big fan leaves off of one of my white widow's in my last crop of 15 plants. The result was terrible. Very small/airy buds. The plant suffered bad while all of it's sisters flowered beautifully. I realize that some of you cut your fan leaves with success but this is just my story and personally I will NEVER touch them again unless they're over 50% dead already.


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## knallmeannn (Jan 19, 2010)

socalkushman said:


> plants are more substenint to shock during flowering..unless the leafs dead..leave it..even being nitrogen defecient....any green means its still alive!


 I agree. These fan leaves are still creating food for your plant, unless they are completely yellow and falling off. I would just leave the fan leaves.


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## Afka (Jan 19, 2010)

So much garbage misinformation on these forums, bullshit non-researched 2cents tidbits from morons who don't understand how plants work. 



Keep pulling off those leaves which you spent all that time GROWING DURING VEG.


How the hell can pulling leaves "not affect yield" and improve taste?


INTERNET RAGE.


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## Metalarc Lemon (Jan 20, 2010)

then why do the commercial greenhouses in holland prune? to lower their profits for the fun of it? or is from years of trial & error?


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## Acuity (Jan 20, 2010)

Yes everyone, you should remove your leaves during flowering, not just the fan leaves though. Removal of photosynthate storage and production facilities in a plant is key to it's energy intensive flowering development. In fact everyone just remove all the leaves on your plants and you'll get bumper crops that taste like sugared virgins and rainbows. For real yo.

[Insert sarcasm here].


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## jkmovies (Jan 20, 2010)

BINFORD said:


> I just gotta throw my experience out there! I DID cut the big fan leaves off of one of my white widow's in my last crop of 15 plants. The result was terrible. Very small/airy buds. The plant suffered bad while all of it's sisters flowered beautifully. I realize that some of you cut your fan leaves with success but this is just my story and personally I will NEVER touch them again unless they're over 50% dead already.


Even with 50% dead, just cut off the dead part and keep the 50% that's alive. Leaves are there for a purpose. Go with nature.


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## knallmeannn (Jan 20, 2010)

Metalarc Lemon said:


> then why do the commercial greenhouses in holland prune? to lower their profits for the fun of it? or is from years of trial & error?


 Pruning and completely eleviating fan leaves is 2 different things. Cutting off and pruning leaves that are next to dead is fine, but why would you cut off leaves that obviously grow for a reason?! I'm sure the Cannabis plant wouldn't grow those if they weren't needed. Simple fact, as someone stated before, let nature run it's course.


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## knallmeannn (Jan 20, 2010)

Afka said:


> So much garbage misinformation on these forums, bullshit non-researched 2cents tidbits from morons who don't understand how plants work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more. Kids and their forums.


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## sambo020482 (Jan 20, 2010)

lol 

i totally get the not cutting the fan leaves off cause they are there for a reason etc, but have seen plants with 50-75% of large fan leaves cut off b4 flowering yield very well in soil and the bottom buds i dont beleive would have got as big had the large fan leaves stayed.

i personally wont be cutting any fan leaves off my grow but ive seen it done with good results.


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## dwaenekd2 (Jan 20, 2010)

if you grow indoors its definitely not in nature, obviously. its a controlled artificial environment, so the plant is gowing to do things slightly different than in "nature". example, they get much more light in the artificial environment so they"re gonna put out more leaves, but the plant may not be able to use all the energy the leaves are making and in that case the bud would be small because the thick leaf foliage would always shade them. you should expirement with your plants to find the right ratio of leaves to bud, and remember that everyones grow room is different so you will have to see what works for you. don't listen to the narrow minded morons that think its one way or the other.


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## mary jane 123 (Jan 24, 2010)

man i worked myself to death pruning fan leaves. my first indoor grow, i stopped about 2 weeks ago. i hope i didn't do any major damage.


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## charwhite (Jan 24, 2010)

mary jane 123 said:


> man i worked myself to death pruning fan leaves. my first indoor grow, i stopped about 2 weeks ago. i hope i didn't do any major damage.


Well I'm in the 5th week of flowering and this is my first grow ever. i just removed a lot of fan leaves that started turning yellow, or the stems were purple. I did this because my 8 White Widow plants were to big for the space so I have massive buds on the all the tops of the plants and underneath the tops of buds and fan leaves the buds were a big as my fingernail, so i removed these leaves so light could get to them for the next 3 weeks.
ANY THOUGHTS ON MY DECISION TO DO THIS??


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## Whey2Sly (Jan 27, 2010)

Well i always thought that to keep ur leaves till i took a few plant science classes and was told that a mature leaf almost stops growing and the procedures in that leaf slow way down.So that has me thinken Out with the old In with the new or younger leaves since there working alot harder and making the plant grow more??????????????????


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## mrdrywall (Feb 5, 2010)

guess this is one thats never gonna be settled to each his own my fan leaves on 1 ak 48 were fuckin huge at the bottom blockin air light so i cut em seems to be growing better now my other ak s didnt have that prob so i left it to nature


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## i need help I'm rookie (Feb 8, 2010)

I never cut them off unless they are curled up and changed color if they are in the way of something move them tuck it somewhere it isnt in the way. Cutting shuts the plant down for up to 24 hours sometimes longer


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## midnightoker (Feb 8, 2010)

NEVER! 

Let the plant do its thing....


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## Griffin285 (Feb 11, 2010)

Ive trimmed up my leaves just to make everything a little cleaner and to have more light reach the buds. Some people say this is bad and will stunt growth. Ive never noticed anything bad though. Honeslty as long as you dont go too crazy it wont make that much of a difference. You might as well just leave them on though. 

If your really worried about stunting the plant give it some super thrive after you trim it up. 

I dont think theres anything wrong with doing some light trimming but i could be wrong idk. Id like to see someone grow 2 clones, trim one of them, and compare yields in the end.


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## dl604 (Feb 12, 2010)

i have half my crop trimed half not, i will update u guys


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## Growzaa (Feb 17, 2010)

What are fan leaves? Im a newbie!


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## solidstuff (Feb 17, 2010)

ya you could let them be like as if it were natural. why not at the same time leave the males because it is natural. Cut off large fan leaves, sometimes twice during flower


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## runninupinya (Feb 17, 2010)

From what I have been reading on this site, I would not cut any healthy leaves. What I would do however, is to do a staggered harvest. In doing this, you can clip the mature buds along with the fan leaves(usually closer to the light source), and that will let the lower buds/fan leaves mature in their own time with more direct light.


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## Rusty Crutch (Mar 13, 2010)

runninupinya said:


> From what I have been reading on this site, I would not cut any healthy leaves. What I would do however, is to do a staggered harvest. In doing this, you can clip the mature buds along with the fan leaves(usually closer to the light source), and that will let the lower buds/fan leaves mature in their own time with more direct light.


I do the same thing. I'll crop all of the main colas in week 8 and then take the rest of the plant in week 10. I have gotten almost as much bud from the second pick as I've gotten from the first. I ruined my last crop by taking fan leaves off, now I only pick off the dead or dying leaves. Supercropping and LST is a good way to uncover lower budsites. I've started supercropping my current crop with great results.


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## jjmd (Mar 26, 2010)

I took some advise and listened to a member on here that said you should keep your leaves as green as you can as long as you can. If your plant gets a slower change over in nutes, you will lose less leaves slower and get better flowering. growth/bloom (nutes) start with 50/50 1-4 weeks. 5-6 weeks 25%/75%. week 7 0%/100%. Then your flush to finish. Never had grows go as well as these have with this practice.

Going into week 5 haven't cut 1 leave off yet. had to trim one or two. (light burn)


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## sven deisel (Mar 26, 2010)

gee sub cool say to trim some shit here go look ur self on the tudde
*TGA Subcool Seeds Deep Purple* is a strain that was created to lock down more of the Urkle dominant traits and bring out more of the musty grape taste that Urk is famous for.
*Deep Purple* produces a wide range of female plants and not all of them will exhibit colours at all. The ones that do however are highly sought after and several people consider their Purple Grape females among their best Indicas strains. *Deep Purple* can be cultivated both indoors and outdoors and flowering for *cannabis seeds* take between 50-60 days. Best way to grow is long veg and remove some shade leaves to allow light under. Not a huge producer or a fast growing plant but it makes up for it in taste and high quality. *Deep Purple* is calming, relaxing and very fun to smoke.

now im sure if the breeder is telling you esp someone like sub it cant be bad but im sure you all natural hippy fucktards will still disagree.
the sites fucked up or ild link you my grow but im sure you can find it i trim the hell out mine


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## Rusty Crutch (Mar 27, 2010)

jjmd said:


> .... growth/bloom (nutes) start with 50/50 1-4 weeks. 5-6 weeks 25%/75%. week 7 0%/100%. Then your flush to finish. Never had grows go as well as these have with this practice.
> 
> Going into week 5 haven't cut 1 leave off yet. had to trim one or two. (light burn)


Hell yeah! I'm going to try that, it makes a lot of sense. +rep


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## HAGGIS N HASH (Mar 27, 2010)

I think the best way to think of it is if your solar panels are cut off wheres your electricity going to come from?Better to tuck them or tie them out the way imo,I do cut off yellowed leaves or burnt tip leaves.


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## HAGGIS N HASH (Mar 27, 2010)

jjmd said:


> I took some advise and listened to a member on here that said you should keep your leaves as green as you can as long as you can. If your plant gets a slower change over in nutes, you will lose less leaves slower and get better flowering. growth/bloom (nutes) start with 50/50 1-4 weeks. 5-6 weeks 25%/75%. week 7 0%/100%. Then your flush to finish. Never had grows go as well as these have with this practice.
> 
> Going into week 5 haven't cut 1 leave off yet. had to trim one or two. (light burn)


I read another cutting fan leaves off thread and found out some great info,thats where I learned its best to tuck them or tie them.It makes perfect sense cos they bring the energy in to the buds,better to train at the start in veg.I also learned exactly what you said its all about the nute dosage to keep your leaves happy.If you do the research you can keep problems to a minium but you learn from mistakes too.RIU is a great site.


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## gor420 (Mar 29, 2010)

Fellaz. Let me pllllllease end this debate. I have read these posts on all the forums for years looking for the answer when in reality I have done it both ways and have all the answers right in front of me. If you don't have enough light in your setup and you let your plant get too big for the amount of light you will be at a disadvantage right away. Now let's talk about clipping at the 3rd set of leaves for bushiness. If you do this you will definitely have a harder time getting light to the inner, lower sets of branches and leaves, but you will get more tops. No matter what though, if you don't have enough light you will get fan leaves that will warp and twist and canoe yet remain mostly green and slowly die away. On these leaves I have seen the individual blades turn and twist individually to face the light source, but still even when facing they will not get enough light as they are too far away or blocked by other more important upper fan leaves feeding the tops. If this is the case just cut your losses and get rid of them and face the fact you grew too big without enough light, or get yourself some more lights and wires and shit and run em all over. I know this is a lame pain in the ass though. I think the answer is if you go the route of a bushy plant and you are indoors you must begin flowering much earlier on, while the plant is smaller so it won't end up too big later. Plants can easily double in size through the flower period. If you grow one tall non-clipped stalk indoors you will most likely get a better result if you're underlit. You could have one light on top and maybe one on each side of it and be ok. I have done this both ways. One time I was growing a plant indoors and I clipped it once and ended up with 4 main shoots each of which having a top. It started getting too big and bushy for how much light I had. So what I ended up doing was trimming the fan leaves evenly off in a spiral stair case manor. I went to each node clipped one of the two fan leaves off then the next node in circular motion all the way up, but I did NOT do the main tops. When this was done it looked like a spiral staircase of leaves all the way down. Every bud on the side of the node I clipped the leaf off of was definitely smaller than the one on the side that still had the leaf. The tops were still nice and fat though. All in all I think it got me the most out of the plant as I could with the lighting I had. I would definitely say it was obvious that the fan leaves had something to do with yield and productivity. I would also say that it will push your flowering time up a little if you clip. Not too much though. Maybe a week or two. I might want to mention I am the king of low power light growing. I don't like using big ass lighting units because risk of fire, high electric bill and heat regulation concern me. I always used a 70 watt metal hallide above and two of those big 100watt coiled CFL bulbs that each supposedly uses like 40 watts. One on each side. Combined light power usage was something like 150watts. Now with this lighting I don't get huge yields anyways, but I easily get an ounce or two of some sticky shit. And I would always have clones ready to go into the flower cycle right behind the floweing mom. If you time it all right you get a good system for the cost of only 160watts and not too much space either.

If your growing indoors and lighting is not plentiful just grow a smaller plant. Begin flowering sooner and keep the lights as tight down on it as you can through the whole growth period. Make the light adjustable right off the start so as the plants gets taller you can easily raise the lights with it. Also look into a strain like LowRider. Those little bastages grow quick and short and auto flower while still producing some fat nug. You could probably grow 6 of those 1 to 1.5' tall in one pot and get up to an ounce off each in 6 weeks total with something like a single 150watt metal halide. And yes you can be all technical and switch to a sodium bulb for flower, but I never do and I still get good buds.

If you grow a single stemmed plant you will have much less trouble with lighting. I had a buddy with 6 beauties in a closet and he did not clip them so they were just tall stalks. He used 3' CFLs running vertically up and down between them all and two 4' CFLs running horizontally above the plants that he raised as they got taller. He also had tin foil on the walls of the closet all the way around. He had no symtoms of burning on the leaves as people always say happens with tin foil, but they were also only CFL lights so they are not that intense. When these got done flowering they were about 3 to 3.5' tall looking like a big fat donkey dick bud all the way up. A couple to a few ounces off of each.

One thing I should mention I have noticed over the years is that when I've grown bag seed that is obviously not pre-feminized. I always clipped them to keep them shorter and bushier and had something like 98% success rate with them being females. I believe firmly that shorter bushier plants tend to naturally go female and tall stick plants (not guaranteed feminized of course) tend to go the male route naturally. In theory the males want to be the tall skinny one so when it opens its little nutsacks to spread it's seed, the taller it is the better chance the pollen will get up in the air and spread further and better. The females want to be short and bushy with lots of surface area and seed producing locations to catch all the pollen fall out. This is not a fact, but it is an observation I have made over the years. Only one time I had a short bushy one come close to being a male and it was stress related. It was growing in a basement and it was winter time so the basement was like 55 degrees and lower sometimes in the room it was in. It was already showing female flowers and then it started showing some male balls in there too. It was going hermie on me. I bought a ceramic heat lamp and pointed it at the pot to combat the cold and keep the roots warmer. Keeping the roots and soil warm was key because at least the roots will feed the warm water in the soil up to the plant that is cold because of the air temp. Meanwhile I was plucking the nutsacs off here and there as they would show up. In no time they began to stop showing up. There was a couple left on the plant that I missed before. I plucked them off and I happened to squish them in my fingers and look inside and I swear I saw a female pistil in it. I may have been wrong, but it appeared that way. Either way the point is the one time I had a bushy short plant going hermie on me and I corrected the cold issue it went right back to being 100% female and the male flowers quit showing up. It fully flowered and was good seedless bud. I acted quickly, though, in correcting the problem. This is key

All in all. If your leaves are not drooping and wilting then don't clip them off. Some of them will normally eventually yellow and die during the flower. When they do, pluck em off. This is normal. If your leaves are droopy, curling, still green and you are sure it's not anything other than a lighting issue, meaning you went too big for your light and area, then just clip the messed up leaves and accept the reduced yield and understand the yield is just equivalent to the energy and space you gave it anyways. You will still get some some nug out of the deal. Just make sure to make clean precise clips of the dead or underlit leaves. This way you won't stress the shit out of it or disease it. I usually squirt a bit of fresh tap water on the exposed flesh where it was clipped with the idea the chlorine may help keep the area germ free. Either way I have clipped many many leaves and never ruined the plant. Only affected the yield a little and maybe length of grow time. I have even clipped all the fan leaves off during flowering and only left all bud leaves and small newer fan leaves and the plant still budded out, but definitely with a lesser yield.


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## jjmd (Mar 29, 2010)

Besides rhat what if you like what you have and decide to do more of it? Reveg? How do I do that with no leaves? Leave are your options to do more with the plant.


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## GrowinthaBudz (Mar 29, 2010)

I cut most of the fan leaves off in flowering stage and the bottom buds end up the same size as the upper ones.


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## rbahadosingh (Apr 25, 2010)

maybe you guys should take a look at this.

guy claims 4-8gram increase per plant after trimming the fans, pretty extreme.. check him if u got time, hes legit.. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=165741


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## Weeded.dk (Apr 25, 2010)

knallmeannn said:


> Pruning and completely eleviating fan leaves is 2 different things. Cutting off and pruning leaves that are next to dead is fine, but why would you cut off leaves that obviously grow for a reason?! I'm sure the Cannabis plant wouldn't grow those if they weren't needed. Simple fact, as someone stated before, let nature run it's course.


Well now i cba reading further in this thread as the general concensus seems to be not to cut at all..
This is not my experience at all..
I did this very experiment this grow because I had great results pruning leaves that were "untuckable" to allow more light into the plant..
The one i never cut a leaf from had significantly lower yield than the pruned sister..
Have a look at Arjan & Co. and tell me they only remove dying leaves 
Obviously removing all fanleaves or just too many is a bad thing, but only slightly worse than not tending to the lightneeds of lower flowers at all..

I think it is a judgement call, but rather leave it on than cut it off if in doubt..


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## lolopakalolo (Apr 26, 2010)

Philo2 said:


> I've taken off nearly all the fan leaves during flowering with no ill effects. During flowering I refer to them as shade leaves.
> 
> Most of the recent studies I have read state that the fan leaves provide no energy to the buds during flowering. All of that energy is absorbed through the leaves on the buds themselves. Thus the fan leaves do nothing for the buds and only absorb nutrients that could be going to the buds.


i have found that shade leafs take the most abuse first, being a newb, i'll take any help i can get. I only remove if they pull off easy. i had problems switching from MG to organic ferts and plenty of fan leaves saved my harvest.


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## Nitegazer (Apr 26, 2010)

Most folks here are talking about light. In a cabinet grow, air circulation is also key. Plants are packed in the cab more than they would be in nature, so I trim enough of the fan leaves to let the air move.

In terms of the amount of harm it causes to prune, I would imagine it has a lot to do with the variety. Some strains like to be trained, others don't; some like high nutes, some don't. I figure pruning is much the same. I would only go by what someone's experience with YOUR strain is-- or try it a little at a time.

Hell, isn't this all about getting into a close relationship with the plant?


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## Gemdaddy54 (May 29, 2010)

Cut it off to make light for the little bud.I do it all the time and it works great.These plants are tougher than you may think.


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## louisc (May 29, 2010)

as long as u got enough strong veg going, start
pinching those lower fans to promote branching,
3-4 weeks, just do a node every few days, 
a good strong plant will bush like crazy,
ie 8 week widow, and some fans, cut near the top
note how the bottom filled in


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## gazza255 (May 30, 2010)

Philo2 said:


> I've taken off nearly all the fan leaves during flowering with no ill effects. During flowering I refer to them as shade leaves.
> 
> Most of the recent studies I have read state that the fan leaves provide no energy to the buds during flowering. All of that energy is absorbed through the leaves on the buds themselves. Thus the fan leaves do nothing for the buds and only absorb nutrients that could be going to the buds.


yep i totaly agree with you there mate,after a week of flowering i trim 75% if not all fan leafs so my light hits every bud site on the plant,,your plant looks twice as small after you takin the fan leafs but trimin the fan leafs from shading the bud sites could get you up to a 20% beter yeild ,,,,its my first time growing so im just learning from a friend whos grown for about 20years now and he always takes away his fan leafs and never gets less than 4oz a plant,,fair enough the plant may go in to shock after triming for a week but after that sit back an watch them buds faten up haha,,,,,ill put a pic up of before and after triming,,i felt gutted after triming but i no it should help my yeild in the end,,,the guy who asked the question mite also se these pics,,,just agreeing with ya on this one


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## purplegangster420 (Jun 1, 2010)

I just recently pruned nearly all fan leaves except for the ones growing from the bud. I've read many different opinions and decided there is only one way to find out for sure is to experiment. i had a plant before that i pruned nearly all the fan leaves because they were dying (due to my lack of knowledge of growing). The buds ended up growing very large so I'm gonna see how a plant with healthy leaves being cut affects the buds. The first picture is the plant which I pruned all the fan leaves before flowering. The second picture is the plant I just cut all the fan leaves off (picture is before my pruning). sorry about the sideways pics. I dont know why the went sideways :/


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## chb444220 (Jun 1, 2010)

yeaa.. idk i feel like theres a good pint for both views.. i feel like there will never be an "accurate" answer.. some will say To cut.. and other will say DO NOT cut... =/

but for me.. I do trim the fan leaves... usually once i get to week 4 of flowering.. i start trimming any that will cover potential bud sites.. and do a few leaves every few days so i dont shock the plant.. i got over 3 ounces from my last plant.. and i trimmed the hell outta the leaves.. lol by week 6.. i had no more "big" fan leaves.. and the plant did fine.. in my opinion.. it did GREAT actually. lol. 3.15 ounces. =) and i only vegged for 3 weeks and im using CFL's. its Nirvana's White Widow if any1's wondering.. its actually the plant thats my avatar pic. =)

and my new plant (another White Widow.. check my signature if u wanna go to the journal) i have been trimming leaves as well.. and she seems to be doing fine. =) TRIMMING FAN LEAVES OFF. lol


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## trichlone fiend (Jun 1, 2010)

I lollipop @ week 2-3 and I remove any fan leaf that isn't attached to a bud @ week 5, view pics.


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## DocDoom85 (Jun 1, 2010)

I used to always cut of the fan leaves so lower buds would get bigger........Wich would give me fatty bottom nugs.....but i noticed growth is slower......this grow im leaving them alone


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## MMAFanatic (Jun 3, 2010)

I cut some off and Saw my plants suffer for them. I did it to 6 of them
I just tie them back now and my results so far have been way better but I dont know crap this is just what happened with me
Still waiting for bud 
My dumb but got up to 32 plants going I am down to 5


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## Cap'n Jack (Jul 1, 2010)

Your plant may not generate much new energy with fan leaves during flowering, but the yellowing indicates that your plant is taking nitrogen away from the fan leaves and using is to feed the budleaves. On my outdoor grows I have trimmed the huge leaves from higher up, but with careful planning during veg you can avoid this.
By pruning off the leaves that will shade buds when they are tiny and hardly developed, you girls will put the energy elsewhere. Like topping and dimming.

Plants take better to being pruned during veg when they are growing like weeds.


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## Cap'n Jack (Jul 1, 2010)

You could also hang some cfls into the lower canopy to fatten up that lower buds.


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## sven deisel (Jul 1, 2010)

YES YOU CAN CUT SOME FANS OFF stupid hippies think plants r people or something tga subcool says its ok i think hes knows what hes doing
*TGA Subcool Seeds Deep Purple* is a strain that was created to lock down more of the Urkle dominant traits and bring out more of the musty grape taste that Urk is famous for.
*Deep Purple* produces a wide range of female plants and not all of them will exhibit colours at all. The ones that do however are highly sought after and several people consider their Purple Grape females among their best Indicas strains. *Deep Purple* can be cultivated both indoors and outdoors and flowering for *cannabis seeds* take between 50-60 days. Best way to grow is long veg and remove some shade leaves to allow light under. Not a huge producer or a fast growing plant but it makes up for it in taste and high quality. *Deep Purple* is calming, relaxing and very fun to smoke there ya go straight copy and paste


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## louisc (Aug 8, 2010)

yep, if u got heavy veg, 
start at the bottom and
start letting in the light, a node a day or two
but only after 2-3 weeks into 12/12, when
its past the growth spurt


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## pointswest (Aug 8, 2010)

The leaf is what is creating the food for the bud through photosynthesis. The flowers do not have to be in the direct light because they are not doing much photosynthesizing because of the small amount of green leaves in the buds. Don't remove leaves until they have been exhausted of their nutrients and yellow. The plant will give up the leaf when it is not needed. 
Stripping the food factories from the plant at a time when it needs the most energy is counterproductive to good growth. If you were really hungry would you prefer an adult portion or a child's plate? This is a much debated topic, but if you look at recommendations by top growers they will always say, leave it alone. Some people will say they are fertilizing, so they don't need the leaves. For your information, the chemical structure of the fertilizer as applied has to be converted to usable energy through the photosynthetic process.


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## jointsallday (Aug 24, 2010)

Afka said:


> So much garbage misinformation on these forums, bullshit non-researched 2cents tidbits from morons who don't understand how plants work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


with all due respect, during veg I am interested in cultivating bud sites , not big leaves

removal is a process ,,anything over 5 inches off main stem and everything over 4 inches on side limbs...seems like plenty left over...



just an opinion


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## Serapis (Aug 24, 2010)

jointsallday said:


> with all due respect, during veg I am interested in cultivating bud sites , not big leaves
> 
> removal is a process ,,anything over 5 inches off main stem and everything over 4 inches on side limbs...seems like plenty left over...
> 
> just an opinion


 AMEN!! Proper pruning during vegetative growth will almost always assure that you don't have to consider it in the flowering stage. Pruning encourages vigorous new growth if done properly. You can prune alternating node branches to keep a plant somewhat flat. This allows you to train the remaining branches up on a single trellis, all receiving good light. 

There are sooo many readers on this site that do not understand pruning at all. Some of the pics I see of flowering plants look silly all bushed up, with only the cola getting sufficient light. If you prune and stake your girls with some care, you'll get a lot more yield then no pruning and letting them grow "naturally" 

+REP


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## stealthymurph (Sep 2, 2010)

i would. it helps get light to bud sites.


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## pointswest (Sep 2, 2010)

stealthymurph said:


> i would. it helps get light to bud sites.


This is the misconception being propagated by this thread. Light on the leaves is what gives the energy to the flower for growth. Light on the flower is not making the flower larger. 

Serapis and Jointsallday are talking about pruning techniques during veg that are used for shaping and opening the plant to light and to encourage branching, this is much different than the people who advocate stripping their branches of fan leaves to encourage larger growth in the flowers.


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## iNCoGNiTiX (Dec 28, 2010)

Ok. A few questions for you all to think over, so that you can further your own understandings. Do the bud sites have their own leaves? Are those leaves closer to the bud than the other fan leaves you want to remove? Do nutrients get to the buds faster and/or more efficiently when their personal leaves are receiving maximum light as opposed to being shaded and having fan leaves receive the maximum light? Is it more efficient to have less leaves in an attempt to proportionally distribute nutrients [from the roots] and energy [produced by a lower number of leaves that will eventually grow in size] to a smaller plant? Or, is it more efficient to have as many leaves as possible, despite whether ot not they cover a sizeable portion of the remaining leaves?


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## chb444220 (Dec 31, 2010)

iNCoGNiTiX said:


> Ok. A few questions for you all to think over, so that you can further your own understandings. Do the bud sites have their own leaves? Are those leaves closer to the bud than the other fan leaves you want to remove? Do nutrients get to the buds faster and/or more efficiently when their personal leaves are receiving maximum light as opposed to being shaded and having fan leaves receive the maximum light? Is it more efficient to have less leaves in an attempt to proportionally distribute nutrients [from the roots] and energy [produced by a lower number of leaves that will eventually grow in size] to a smaller plant? Or, is it more efficient to have as many leaves as possible, despite whether ot not they cover a sizeable portion of the remaining leaves?


those are a lot of really really good questions... honestly...... i think this will be debated forever.. lol. i think theres good adn bad in cuttin ghtem off... i usually do trim off the big fan leaves anywhere from 4-6 weeks into flowering.. then like 1-2 weeks b4 harvest.. i usually trim off any leaves that arent "attached" to the buds.. adn my plants seem to turn out fine..but like i said.. i think this debate will never be settled. lol


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## iNCoGNiTiX (Dec 31, 2010)

chb444220 said:


> those are a lot of really really good questions... honestly...... i think this will be debated forever.. lol. i think theres good adn bad in cuttin ghtem off... i usually do trim off the big fan leaves anywhere from 4-6 weeks into flowering.. then like 1-2 weeks b4 harvest.. i usually trim off any leaves that arent "attached" to the buds.. adn my plants seem to turn out fine..but like i said.. i think this debate will never be settled. lol


Glad you respect the questions. I agree that it's another seemingly neverending debate. I have done late trimming. I do notice delayed growth right after removal, but that does not last long. I had removed some fan leaves and lower branches. Everything gets at least pretty good light. The key is a balance between fan leaf light and bud leaf light. One is not more important the other until you can prove it.


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## Zetch (Dec 31, 2010)

A lot of this depends on the size of your plant as well. A small plant you pushed through a short veg cycle will have less leaves and therefore depend more heavily on each one. By the time my indicas are halfway through flower they are 5-6ft tall and I can cut a number of leaves off them without any ill effect.

That having been said, I'd spot light a grow with florescents before I'd start hacking away at it if I needed more light.


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## Max Q (Jan 23, 2011)

I've read a lot about this, and done some experiments of my own, and usually do some moderate defoliation towards the end of the bloom cycle, especially of yellowing leaves.

What I notice about this never-ending-debate is that you've got true believers at both ends. Some guys swear by extreme defoliation, others cherish every leaf no matter how yellowed. Looking at that, my take away is that it probably doesn't matter all that much. If there were a clear harm or benefit to either approach this issue would have been resolved a long long time ago.


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## atomicronick (Jan 24, 2011)

three things to look at. your lighting, your plant size, and whats done to the plant. a bit of tying down gives you lots of new light angles. are you running multiple or single lights? not an easy question or an easy answer here. aside from that, if this is done, would there be need to remove anything nice and green?


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## chb444220 (Jan 27, 2011)

yeaaa i agree.. there is going to be a never ending debate.. i usually trim leaves off thoughout the grow cycle... an dhavent had any problems... one thing to know tho. is if ur gonna do sum trimming.. jsut say for example.. your gonna trim 30 leaves. try to do like 10 1 day. 10 another day.. adn the last 10 sum other day.. cuz i know if u do TOO much trimming at once. it "can" cause your plant alot of stress..a dn turn it into a hermie... =/


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## smil3y (Feb 12, 2011)

I've got a huge bush atm ^_^ Shes flowering nicely and generally havent taken anything off it other than what was already dying, My early opinion is if it looks yellowed or browed or wilted give it a gentle pull if the leaf disconnects from its node easily then you've just done what the plant was planning to do already, I cant say im an expert or that my opinion is right, but if you pull on a healthy leaf it will resist pull on a dying one and it comes off with ease...


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## Serapis (Feb 12, 2011)

This is actually some great advice in my opinion. Considering that the plants are with us from 3-5 months, there should be no rush to remove leaves. Everytime I add water to my Waterfarms, I pluck some leaves to allow light in or to encourage a node to branch. I have had more new growth generated on lower branches that have had their leaves removed than not. If you are looking to get some cuttings from a plant and only have tops, pluck some lower fan leaves, about a fourth of the way up your plant, to encourage new growth. Of course, in flowering, you would have already of done this, and shouldn't need to defoliate the bottom, except for suckers that might grow ( I call them 'cuttings' when the plant is in vegetation cycle).

The reason is we want to focus our growth and resources on the top of the plant, the portion that bears the fruit of our labor. By selectively removing leaves, a few here and there, you are truly benefiting the plant. Air will move more freely, light will penetrate further and you will stimulate growth. It certainly seems like a win win situation to me.

I understand the naturalists too, and I respect their view, as long as they don't make claims of larger harvests due to not removing leaves. It has been my own personal experience that the strain I'm currently working with for the last year responds great to defoliation. Keep in mind, we probably should have little to no reason to defoliate a true sativa plant, as it is limited on leaves as it is. Defoliation is done more to indica varieties than sativas generally.



chb444220 said:


> yeaaa i agree.. there is going to be a never ending debate.. i usually trim leaves off thoughout the grow cycle... an dhavent had any problems... one thing to know tho. is if ur gonna do sum trimming.. jsut say for example.. your gonna trim 30 leaves. try to do like 10 1 day. 10 another day.. adn the last 10 sum other day.. cuz i know if u do TOO much trimming at once. it "can" cause your plant alot of stress..a dn turn it into a hermie... =/


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## SMOTHERme (Feb 12, 2011)

I was told that if u take leaves off while in flowering stage the plant wastes energy repairing damage than using it for growth.


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## jdizzle22 (Feb 12, 2011)

I look at it this way: If I can tuck the fan leaf under the bud site then I do. If there is a bud site with a fan leaf in the way which is to far or in such a position that I can't tuck it under the bud site, then I leave it alone and wish that bud site the best of luck (often they get tall enough after a few days that I can tuck them under).

In nature the plant thinks that fan leaf is important enough to keep until for some reason it can't. If the plant thinks its in its own best interest to have the fan leaf, then I do too.


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## Derple (Mar 15, 2011)

if anything i would cut the bottom leaves and have a small smoke


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## chb444220 (Mar 15, 2011)

yeaa this is a heated debate.. hahaha. i think its all a personal preference... if u want to... then go ahead.. if u dont. then dont.. dont worry about what other people are doing with THEIR OWN plants. and worry bout ur own... ive done both methods before... and i like to trim SOME of the fan leaves off... usually just any that are big... and blocking any light from getting to certain budsites.... but again... jsut a personal preference. =)


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## bigchiefa (Mar 18, 2011)

I found out the hard way. Had the most beautiful blueberry a week into flowering and a "experienced grower" told me to cut off the fan leaves so the buds would get more light. That put my plant into shock and i barely got a oz from a plant i was planning on getting atleast 6ozs from.


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## Serapis (Mar 18, 2011)

I find that extremely hard to believe. the only way you would have ruined such a plant is if you removed every leaf. And you aren't getting 6 ounces a plant without any training, pruning or defoliation. Most of us don't wait til flowering to remove leaves anyways. It is an ongoing process, like pruning a plant to achieve desired shape and results. If you got less than an ounce from your plant, that is a reflection of your own experience.



bigchiefa said:


> I found out the hard way. Had the most beautiful blueberry a week into flowering and a "experienced grower" told me to cut off the fan leaves so the buds would get more light. That put my plant into shock and i barely got a oz from a plant i was planning on getting atleast 6ozs from.


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## pnkrck (Mar 28, 2011)

I can't help but notice most of the people who suggest you leave those leaves have high rep, and the people who cut them have no rep. I know which way i'd go!


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## cheeseyblue (Mar 28, 2011)

The fan leaves are like the engine for your plant. If you started removing them two weeks in then you would shock the plant and your yield would be subsequently less. On an eight week grow i start removing fan leaves at about 6 weeks, but only if they are dying anyway or they are severly blocking light to another bud, but i would not remove any more than a few each time. You must give the plant time to adapt to the loss.


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## Buddy Ganga (Mar 28, 2011)

I'm a fan of trimming but only for the sake of lower buds.

I have seen first hand how a plant can go into repair/rooting stage again due to over trimming. 
Rebuilding becomes the focus rather then bud production. 

So like with anything in life, when done in moderation it can be bennificail.


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## 408RAIDER (Mar 28, 2011)

thes thread id giving me a headache..  but I love this debate..


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## Buddy Ganga (Mar 28, 2011)

I share my growing methods rather then debate them.


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## wanabe (Mar 28, 2011)

dont stress plant during flower i did it to one that was a female one week in veg i toped lst and trimmed and she hermied


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## stonner2k (Apr 5, 2011)

i allso have a sore head because of this debate but it's another coolshades one do ya suck air threw or blow it threw.
but what i have learnt is what i was thinking seems to be the wright thing to do and trim as you go, but what i have not seen and will stick my own 2 cents in is if ya have let them get a bit too bushie then trim them down abit (not so bushie looking) before you turn them and once turned tuck and only take what coming off anyway.
ps but i am sure someone will have something to say about that to lol
paece out


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## soofresh (Apr 5, 2011)

Im new but the way it was explained to me was its like solar power and the leaves are the panels. the more panels the more power. If you have a defected panel you get rid of it. Made alot of sense and seems to be working so far.


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## spacecake13 (Apr 6, 2011)

I am currently growing 7 clones of Mk-Ultra strain under scrog with a 600hps after reading up on this topic i decided to trim 3/7 plants, and gradually bonsai some of fan leaves on 2/7 while leaving 2 unaltered. They have been lst'd since they sprouted fourth leaf set so high control wont be an issue. I will post my conclusion on it shortly and will keep you updated
.


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## spacecake13 (Apr 6, 2011)

......


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## Cloud9GanjaGod (Jul 11, 2011)

I understand that the leaves are the energy source for buds. A lot of indica dominant varieties grow little sugar leaves all through the buds. Is it possible these sugar leaves are the main source of energy for the growth of the buds? Sativa dominant strains normally stretch a little with more space between leaves. Would it not be a good idea then to trim some of the larger fan leaves from the more indica dominant varieties and maybe leave the sativa dominant plants alone? Just my thoughts.


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## bonedaddy4u (Aug 12, 2011)

I like to clip any leaves over an ince when the node at the base has little leaves and have great resalts the bigger leave dont take in as much as the small leaves and the leave stems ted to turn red.


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## karmeron (Sep 5, 2011)

This is a much discussed topic, Im no expert but some of the comments amuse me like:

"I cut off fan leaves to give more light to bud leaves" - Scientifically speaking, do bud leafs produce more food for the bud or does the food from those leafs directly go to the bud? Of course it "seems" to make sense to people doing it, but is it "Scientifically" proven? What are the advantages of bud leafs over fan leafs? Does anyone know the facts that actually does cut off fan leafs? 

"I suppose it comes down to what is best for each individual grower" - not really, there has to be either a right way or wrong way based on how the plant scientifically works. If you understand exactly how the plant works and what it needs then you will have the correct answer as to wether removing fan leafs or not is correct.

Dont get me wrong, I'm no expert, but logic has got to dictate this debate, there has to be a scientific answer, not just "it works for me" or " it doesnt work for me".

My thoughts on it are (only thoughts, not fact) - the plant is a whole connected system, why would you chop one type of leaf to get more light to another type of leaf if they both do the same job? You are effectivly reducing food production for the plant by a percentage and If the fan leafs do stop producing food in flower, then you are reducing a percentage of "stored" food for the plant. It really doesnt make sense to me to cut off leafs when they are part of the whole plant system that it has spent time and energy and food creating.

Of course it may be the fact that it has no negative impact, but we cant base this on just other peoples grows, what are the scientific facts? 

Sorry if it seems like a bit of a rant, just seen a lot of threads/posts on this issue when there has to be a logical/scientific answer to this theory, instead of just "guessing". 

Dont get me wrong, I havent done any proper research on it myself, I do plan on doing it at some stage, just working out other small kinks in my setup as I go along and will then concentrate on other methods, as its not a big issue at the moment.


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## dandl (Sep 8, 2011)

Dont pick leaves at all, only remove dead or yellowing leaves..too much shock for the plant. takes days to come back.


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## doublejj (Sep 8, 2011)

I only remove leaves when they turn yellow during flowering. Leave all green leaves on the plant.

peace
doublejj
P.S. Here's a big yellow leaf off of my OG Kush


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## smokntwin (Nov 15, 2011)

i cut off 4 fan leaves blocking my water site and i dont give a damn...lol nothing happens and its still growing like a damn fool hahaha dont listen to what people say do yo own thing and try it out duh


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## awkinpup (Dec 25, 2011)

I guess when plants can talk we'll find out if it's good or bad, When I try to interpret what my plants are saying it seems like the same thing everytime Smoke Me....laughing right now from a fat rip. See I knew my girls were right


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## stonestare (Dec 25, 2011)

The last 2 weeks when I start the flush I chop off all of the fan leaves and have yet to hermie a plant. I do this so I can get the max out of the last 2 weeks. When I harvest I go until 80% on the trichs are resin and I usually only cut half the plant and leave the bottom half growing until the trichs are 80%


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## tokingtiger (Jan 31, 2012)

i started taking some fan leaves off my almost done plant. Resin increased and it started a growth spurt? I always believed in leaving the leaves on till its cutting time until a friend of mine grew 2 of my clones, my nutes, using nothing but 200watts of t-5's. He did remove the fan leaves a couple weeks before final maturity and since all things being the same except for the fan leaves, ( his plants where better in resin / high), i thought i would do the same.. this strain was an older Lemon Skunk. I also always understood that some stress makes the plant produce more resin as a defense. when i clone i clip the leaves to promote growth so removing some of the fan leaves might of caused the growth spurt and increase in resin? Not a professional study but first time i touched a fan leaf that wasn't ready to fall off by itself.

update: I am in the middle of cropping this first plant i ever cut my fan leaves off of.. it did create a growing spurt but all this new growth was " SEED PODS" ekkkk. i'm going back to leaving my plants alone unless leaves are dying.. i got with my friend and he did confuse that all his plants where going hermie bad and it was rough keeping up... ( i read in posts here that is a possibility from overly stressing by taking the palm leaves.).


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## kindbud27 (Jan 31, 2012)

tuck em if they are in the way man, no need to cut they will fall off when the ready. just tuck em!!


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## TsmokeTrain (Sep 9, 2012)

I always check which leaf-end steals the most light and cut off that part of the leaf. that way i double the penatration by cutting not everything but the part that needs to be cut. i once read: Never cut an entire leaf off, and so i didnt, it simply sounds the most logic.


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## roadkingrich (Oct 20, 2012)

Personally I leave all leafs on the plant until they yellow and as mentioned earlier, I give them a little tug and if they fall off, then I just sped up the amount of time the plant would have done in a couple days anyhow. It makes sense that if you pull off the food factories, the plant isn't going to produce as much food and therefore will not be as efficient in producing the best bud possible. If a fan leaf is blocking a bud site, I will tuck it behind a stem. This all works for me but everyone should do what works best for them. I've been growing about 20 years now, and this is what works for me. Might not be the RIGHT thing to do, but it's worked well for me. JMO.


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## yesum (Oct 20, 2012)

I am going to be trimming a bunch of fans real soon as my tent is packed and I have to do it or they will burn on the lights I have set vertically in the corners.

I think it is most likely a draw if you trim or do not, as to bud production. You will stunt the plant some by taking fans, though you can reduce this by taking over a period of days or weeks.

You will get a more developed bud if it has direct light, though growers tell me different here on the web. Air flow and space restrictions are real things that need to be addressed and if that means trimming then so be it.


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## Mikenite69 (May 12, 2013)

I aways take off the big ass sucker leaves really they are really there to shade the plant and also to collect sun and light and never have my plants went into shock over it. Also in a matter of days all those smaller leaves will become big leaves again if your plant is healthy also and the plant cycle still goes on in fact I know many people that preach to cut back the "sucker leaves" in harvest to increase yields now I was always a fan of just leave the plant alone and have noticed a big difference with cutting off the fans and increasing bud size so just like anything else you are the grower if you have two of the same strains try it one where you constantly take those big fucking sucker leaves off and the other where you leave them on and I bet the one that you take the big leaves out will result in bigger buds from my expirerience as well as a few growers who also recommended it to me.


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## wvblazin (Sep 4, 2013)

I've trimmed off my lower branches to focus on the main colas and my plants are doing great but I'm growing outdoors. On one of my plants I trimmed a few fans to open it up a little because I was afraid of mold setting in because of how humid it has been the past month or so. Anyway, I would suggest doing whatever YOU think your plants need.


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## 333maxwell (Sep 5, 2013)

After years of doing this I have discovered one truth.

Once in flower, this plant will do everything it can to provide the biggest buds it can for it's environment. If the plant feels a leaf is getting in the way of being the most productive fertile plant it can be (buds) it will get rid of that leaf all by it's self (and they do). 

If you cut a leaf that plant had plans for, you piss of the plant more than make it happy. A happy plant is a productive plant. I've tried it all, and these days I let the plant self prune it's self if the plant feels it needs. It knows best and it only has one task in mind, and it's the same task you want from it.

That's my take, everyone else's own mileage may vary.


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## guitarzan (Aug 31, 2014)

I dunno, half the folks say cutting fan leaves from a flowering plant is okay and have explanations to back that assumption, while the other half say that you shouldn't, with plausible explanations to back that up. I'm confused. My 3 females are in full bud, I cut most of leaves off one of them, and a handful of leaves from the other two. Only the big leaves coming from the main stalk and a few on the bud branches. The big-ass ones that seem like branches themselves come of...over a foot long from the stalk. I heard from one source, that the leaves serve little purpose when in bud stage, and most of the nutrients come from the root system directly and not so much the leaves. During vegetation, the leaves act as solar panels and nutrient delivery for the rest of the plant. That's the theory (I'm hoping) is proper. I do know rain water is something a plant will flourish in. We had 6 days of fairly heavy rain up here, and I rarely got to look at them. They were quite a bit bigger and healthier for sure. Only a botanist, or someone who's experimented thoroughly for years/decades, knows for sure about all these things...just like a chef, every little thing makes a different in the outcome. My 2¢ worth...if that.


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## plod super skunk (May 30, 2016)

widdopa said:


> its actually a herb not a weed and bad advice to cut healthy fan leaves just tie back as suggested. a flowering plant will most always yellow - the best advice is let the plant do its job, it will drop leaves when it doesnt need them.


Isn't it a nettle not a herb it's never been a herb


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## ISK (May 31, 2016)

plod super skunk said:


> Isn't it a nettle not a herb it's never been a herb


you just quoted a post from Nov 2009.... widdopa has not been online for over 2 years, so don't hold your breath for a response


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## plod super skunk (May 31, 2016)

ISK said:


> you just quoted a post from Nov 2009.... widdopa has not been online for over 2 years, so don't hold your breath for a response


I just cut my fans off was looking for info after I commented I seen the date lol thanks for heads up mate


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## ghEDo (Sep 1, 2016)

I heard some stories about this and gave it a try on my outdoor grow. I'm new to actually growing myself and figured fuck it I would give it a try. Left the 2 sets closest to the top and my plant is doing great the basically doubled in size the first 2 days..... if you have an extra plant I would give it a shot


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## MaineWeed04330 (Nov 17, 2017)

I clean em up. I do get rid of fan leaves. They stay on til they get to much. In my opinion doing indoor grow using Co2 they don't last long and newer ones come out to take over. I don't see any difference in growth. In fact they take the bleep off within a few days after cleaning them up. It doesn't take away from the plant. I definitely have noticed more yield doing it this way. this grow now I have taken 6 small from clone to 6 weeks veg to flower and now 8 1/2 weeks in flower with qp easily per plant. 2 gg4, 2 nor easter, 1 gsc and 1 blue kush. Nore Easter with some bad as nodes too.. So I say do as you like.  I just love my plants and listen to them. I clip away, I have great luck with it. Blunivers and Crater Lake are two of the bushiest I have seen. They if not are kept clean they will give you problems in the moldy mildew and but rot departments.


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## *** River Rat *** (May 16, 2018)

It still is amazing this debate continues !!! 
I belong to other forums (not just weed) because I have other interests and hobbies as well.
I've never seen so much disrespect and "trolling" as I've seen with pot !!

My feeling is you need at least 4 yrs growing just to get out of the "noobie" category. Scrape your knees a little.
The BEST people to listen to are the one's with experience...and never ignore them or call them "stupid hippies" (I crack up every time people use the word without even knowing what a hippie is). If someone has been growing for 20 yrs they deserve the utmost respect. You MUST value their opinions !! I would venture to say not many of the "young folks" on this forum haven't worked a real job long enough to be even in the middle of a seniority list. I'd also bet those same people don't realize the magnitude of things you can learn from elderly people either !! ......I digress...... 

You really don't need much education to grasp the thought that there are sooooo many variables that make it almost impossible to feel any situation of one person will parallel.yours !! C'mon now !!

Some very nice people have put great thought and effort into their responses....and thank you for that...some great advice too.
Others have kindly....and properly advised.... "do whatever works for you".
Hmmmm...trial and error...what a novel thought !!

Once you've grown long enough.....your girls will talk to you and tell you what they want...just listen to them !!

Lastly....the next person that types..." where's your science to back it up ??".....I hope your keyboard blows up !

Something the "hippies" will remember......."GAS...ASS..or GRASS---Nobody Rides for Free "

Oh....almost forgot !!!...."Should I cut off the fan leaves ?".....for myself...I change and adapt to the situation at hand. Pluck one hear and there..I always stop when I hear " OUCH !!! "

Peace


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## MichiganMedGrower (May 16, 2018)

*** River Rat *** said:


> It still is amazing this debate continues !!!
> I belong to other forums (not just weed) because I have other interests and hobbies as well.
> I've never seen so much disrespect and "trolling" as I've seen with pot !!
> 
> ...



Can’t agree with this. Especially with all the myth and misinformation out there from pot being illegal. 



Some people have 20 years experience. 

And some people have 1 year of experience and repeat it 20 times.


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## *** River Rat *** (May 16, 2018)

Don't mind you don't agree......since it's only MY opinion......that cool !! Seems the method of growing weed is the most opinionated topic I've ever run into. 

The point I was driving at was that a lot of people discount what seasoned growers have to say because they don't agree with what they say....I feel their input is valuable. 

Not sure what was meant by repeating something 20 times in 1 year.....still won't compare to someone having performed a task 20 times a year for 20 years. .Have you ever been in a job a job 15 yrs and a new hire walks in the door and thinks he/she knows everything with "zero" experience ?? If your old enough to have been in a job that long you would understand my point.

There ARE some great young minds out out there.....it might me more recognized if they would ever lift their heads from a smart phones..


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## MichiganMedGrower (May 16, 2018)

*** River Rat *** said:


> Don't mind you don't agree......since it's only MY opinion......that cool !! Seems the method of growing weed is the most opinionated topic I've ever run into.
> 
> The point I was driving at was that a lot of people discount what seasoned growers have to say because they don't agree with what they say....I feel their input is valuable.
> 
> ...



I just meant plenty of people still suck at their jobs after 20 years. 

And get this. Some of the old men out here in the woods that have been growing weed for 40 years+ hang their plants upside down in the barn roots and all to get the thc to “run” from the roots and stems down to the buds. 

They don’t know any better. 1 year of experience repeated 20 times. Or 40.


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## *** River Rat *** (May 17, 2018)

Ahhhhh...understand your point !!! Agreed !!! I've worked with people for 20 yrs that WERE useless !! I do agree with you......

On the internet....on a forum....with complete anonymity.....anyone can SAY they have 15 yrs growing experience.....can also post pics that aren't even theirs !! 
Deception can have no end !!.....No shortage of A-holes in this world !! 

I feel everyone should be a sponge and try to absorb as much knowledge as they can ...then pick the best pieces from everyone that works for you.

I have a perfect example of this. I also have been doing fish tanks for over 20 years. It's amazing the parallels it has to growing pot.
-- You need to keep something alive and healthy in a simulated environment for an indefinite amount of time --(for fish)--finite for weed (duh !) 
Just like pot.....EVERYONE has "the best way" to set up and keep a healthy fish tank. Very few people are in agreement of these methods.
Sooo..I tried a variety of ways and suggestions to attain a healthy fish tank that water is so clear it looks likes the fish are suspended in air. I fulfilled my task....after 8 years of listening...reading...and picking brains...I found the best combinations that worked for me.
Perfect environment......light.....proper Ph.....proper feedings (over/under is bad)....everything to grow and maintain life to its fullest potential and beauty.....
Sounds very familiar when discussing the intricacies of growing weed. 
I never discredit any opinions.....I try to listen...learn... &.experiment...till I find what works for me.

That's what I try to take from forums......an education.....not interested in name calling and attitudes. 

All I want is what everyone else strives for....thick, heavy, stanky-ass buds that taste, smell, and smoke great.....with a great buzz !! I'm doing pretty damn well...far from perfect. Recognizing and correcting my mistakes. And continuing to educated myself on the way to growing that tasty bud !! AMEN....


ps..the fish I raise are African Cichlids


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## MichiganMedGrower (May 17, 2018)

*** River Rat *** said:


> Ahhhhh...understand your point !!! Agreed !!! I've worked with people for 20 yrs that WERE useless !! I do agree with you......
> 
> On the internet....on a forum....with complete anonymity.....anyone can SAY they have 15 yrs growing experience.....can also post pics that aren't even theirs !!
> Deception can have no end !!.....No shortage of A-holes in this world !!
> ...



I had fish tanks when I was younger and also feel keeping fish prepared me to run a Grow room. 

I had cichlids in one tank. I put a wall of lava rock in there and they all took a cave. Awesome electric colored fish!


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## Splaap (May 17, 2018)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> I had fish tanks when I was younger and also feel keeping fish prepared me to run a Grow room.
> 
> I had cichlids in one tank. I put a wall of lava rock in there and they all took a cave. Awesome electric colored fish!


We sleep next to a tank of golden severum.
They aren't quite as aggressive as some other S.A. and African cichlids.
Love the sound, usually, though they can get rambunctious.


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## *** River Rat *** (May 17, 2018)

I'm glad you see my fish/weed parallel !! I didn't mean to sidetrack the thread.....but yes.....I feel raising fish was my gateway drug to growing weed !! ha !


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## Beachwalker (May 17, 2018)

This Thread will live forever! 

I cut mine when there's two weeks or less to go and I only cut the ones blocking lower buds

I harvest in three levels so everything gets plenty light, and plenty time to ripen exactly where I want it before harvest..!


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## *** River Rat *** (May 17, 2018)

Sorry I can't give "likes" yet.....I guess I have to wait.....BUT....I LIKE a lot of comments and inputs expressed !! Pass it around with a knuckle bump.....


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## whitebb2727 (May 17, 2018)

Lol. Why people think it's a good idea I'll never know. It's not. It doesn't help. Leaves don't block light. They use it. Duh.


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## Beachwalker (May 17, 2018)

*** River Rat *** said:


> I'm glad you see my fish/weed parallel !! I didn't mean to sidetrack the thread.....but yes.....I feel raising fish was my gateway drug to growing weed !! ha !


I had a fish addiction for a while too (at one point I was up to three mackerel a day!)


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## MichiganMedGrower (May 17, 2018)

Beachwalker said:


> I had a fish addiction for a while too (at one point I was up to three mackerel a day!)



Holy Mackerel!


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## churchhaze (May 17, 2018)

Ahh the old hippies that still boil their roots, insist on using crazy spectrums with too much blue, think that trichs degrading early is a desirable quality, think unstressed plants don't smell. Yeah I know a few old hippies with 1 year of experience 20-40 times. Did you know that THC lives in the roots?

In general though, I think people with more experience are worth listening to.


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## 18B (May 18, 2018)

Beachwalker said:


> I had a fish addiction for a while too (at one point I was up to three mackerel a day!)


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## *** River Rat *** (May 18, 2018)

Boiling roots !!! LMAO !!......about 15 yrs ago someone actually told me that !! And in the pursuit of learning...I actually tried it.....once !!
Not sure if it irritated the plant or not.....but I certainly was !! Trying to carry a pot of boiling water outside big enough to hold a root ball had to be one the dumbest "tricks" I ever tried......WOW !!.....My buddy was so serious and convincing....just had to give it a whirl.....and no....I don't have any idea if it worked. Even if it did.....how stupid. I wasn't gullible, just trying to continue the chase of the best high !! ....the things we do...


" Holy fish sticks 18B !!! How did you get them all to pose at the same time for that picture !! "


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## 18B (May 18, 2018)

" Holy fish sticks 18B !!! How did you get them all to pose at the same time for that picture !! "[/QUOTE]
I immediately put them in ice and it chilled them out a bit...
FISH TACOS....


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## Mason Jar 92705 (May 18, 2018)

18B said:


> " Holy fish sticks 18B !!! How did you get them all to pose at the same time for that picture !! "


I immediately put them in ice and it chilled them out a bit...
FISH TACOS....[/QUOTE]
I LOVE fish tacos!!! I almost always order that when me and the ole lady go to the mexican restuarant! Just sayin'


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## MAGpie81 (Jul 13, 2020)

RL420 said:


> Removing lower stems during flowering is something i also practice.
> 
> But..removing fan leaves seems a little bit backwards to what you want to achieve
> 
> "Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth sub stances. They also create shade, but at the same time they are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant. Premature removal of leaves may cause stunting, because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced."


I'm wondering about which stems/leaves to cut, or not, during flowering, first week


gor420 said:


> Fellaz. Let me pllllllease end this debate. I have read these posts on all the forums for years looking for the answer when in reality I have done it both ways and have all the answers right in front of me. If you don't have enough light in your setup and you let your plant get too big for the amount of light you will be at a disadvantage right away. Now let's talk about clipping at the 3rd set of leaves for bushiness. If you do this you will definitely have a harder time getting light to the inner, lower sets of branches and leaves, but you will get more tops. No matter what though, if you don't have enough light you will get fan leaves that will warp and twist and canoe yet remain mostly green and slowly die away. On these leaves I have seen the individual blades turn and twist individually to face the light source, but still even when facing they will not get enough light as they are too far away or blocked by other more important upper fan leaves feeding the tops. If this is the case just cut your losses and get rid of them and face the fact you grew too big without enough light, or get yourself some more lights and wires and shit and run em all over. I know this is a lame pain in the ass though. I think the answer is if you go the route of a bushy plant and you are indoors you must begin flowering much earlier on, while the plant is smaller so it won't end up too big later. Plants can easily double in size through the flower period. If you grow one tall non-clipped stalk indoors you will most likely get a better result if you're underlit. You could have one light on top and maybe one on each side of it and be ok. I have done this both ways. One time I was growing a plant indoors and I clipped it once and ended up with 4 main shoots each of which having a top. It started getting too big and bushy for how much light I had. So what I ended up doing was trimming the fan leaves evenly off in a spiral stair case manor. I went to each node clipped one of the two fan leaves off then the next node in circular motion all the way up, but I did NOT do the main tops. When this was done it looked like a spiral staircase of leaves all the way down. Every bud on the side of the node I clipped the leaf off of was definitely smaller than the one on the side that still had the leaf. The tops were still nice and fat though. All in all I think it got me the most out of the plant as I could with the lighting I had. I would definitely say it was obvious that the fan leaves had something to do with yield and productivity. I would also say that it will push your flowering time up a little if you clip. Not too much though. Maybe a week or two. I might want to mention I am the king of low power light growing. I don't like using big ass lighting units because risk of fire, high electric bill and heat regulation concern me. I always used a 70 watt metal hallide above and two of those big 100watt coiled CFL bulbs that each supposedly uses like 40 watts. One on each side. Combined light power usage was something like 150watts. Now with this lighting I don't get huge yields anyways, but I easily get an ounce or two of some sticky shit. And I would always have clones ready to go into the flower cycle right behind the floweing mom. If you time it all right you get a good system for the cost of only 160watts and not too much space either.
> 
> If your growing indoors and lighting is not plentiful just grow a smaller plant. Begin flowering sooner and keep the lights as tight down on it as you can through the whole growth period. Make the light adjustable right off the start so as the plants gets taller you can easily raise the lights with it. Also look into a strain like LowRider. Those little bastages grow quick and short and auto flower while still producing some fat nug. You could probably grow 6 of those 1 to 1.5' tall in one pot and get up to an ounce off each in 6 weeks total with something like a single 150watt metal halide. And yes you can be all technical and switch to a sodium bulb for flower, but I never do and I still get good buds.
> 
> ...


Friend- You just wrote a book


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## MAGpie81 (Jul 13, 2020)

MAGpie81 said:


> I'm wondering about which stems/leaves to cut, or not, during flowering, first week
> 
> Friend- You just wrote a book


Great Advice, honestly. Thanks


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## Holeleeshet (Mar 24, 2021)

Griffin285 said:


> Ive trimmed up my leaves just to make everything a little cleaner and to have more light reach the buds. Some people say this is bad and will stunt growth. Ive never noticed anything bad though. Honeslty as long as you dont go too crazy it wont make that much of a difference. You might as well just leave them on though.
> 
> If your really worried about stunting the plant give it some super thrive after you trim it up.
> 
> I dont think theres anything wrong with doing some light trimming but i could be wrong idk. Id like to see someone grow 2 clones, trim one of them, and compare yields in the end.


I just done that with my plants this harvest and my trimmed plant grew foxtails. Got double with untrimmed plants than trimmed ones off


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## Scwirl1611 (Apr 9, 2021)

Afka said:


> So much garbage misinformation on these forums, bullshit non-researched 2cents tidbits from morons who don't understand how plants work.
> 
> Leave em and tuck them! Try it it works
> 
> ...


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## Scwirl1611 (Apr 9, 2021)

Leave the leaves and weave or tuck them behind one another


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## bk78 (Apr 9, 2021)

Holeleeshet said:


> I just done that with my plants this harvest and my trimmed plant grew foxtails. Got double with untrimmed plants than trimmed ones off


He hasn’t been active for 10 years now.


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## bk78 (Apr 9, 2021)

He hasn’t been active for 8 years now.


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## Scwirl1611 (Apr 9, 2021)

Who


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## Dreamwalker_j (Apr 19, 2021)

Afka said:


> So much garbage misinformation on these forums, bullshit non-researched 2cents tidbits from morons who don't understand how plants work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The idea is to only remove fan leaves that are blocking light from getting to apical growth (the apex from each node, or, "the bud site") and to allow adequate air flow rhrough the plant. I try to bend and tuck any leaves i can under existing branches and i remove the ones that need to be removed. The main reason for ALL THAT TIME IN VEG is TO GROW MORE NODES, NOT LEAVES. For someone raging about the forum being full of misinformation and opinion, then stating that people should learn the science behind the plant , im not exactly reading a whole lot of science in your comment.. Defoliation is good, extreme defoliation can be very harmful unless you know exactly what you are doing. If you can look down on your plant from above and you can see the floor/soil/hydroton/ect.... then you jave removed too many leaves. If there is light hitting your floor, it is wasting that precious light energy the plants could be using if there was a leaf there to absorb it. So, I'll state it again.... defoliating so that every node gets light is very very good for flower development. Extreme defoliation is very bad and you have removed so many solar panels that the plant is not getting as much light energy as it could be and bud growth actually BECOMES SEVERELY RETARDED. If you pulled all the fan leaves and still harvested decent nugs, imagine how much better it could have been if the plant was able to absorb more light per square foot. The only way removing fan leaves improves taste is if you remove them before smoking/processing. Look at the process of mainlining or manifolding and then look at rye results. Ive been growing for 15 years and in a side by side comparison, WHEN IT IS DONE PROPERLY, it definitely grows more bud


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## Scwirl1611 (Apr 19, 2021)

Dreamwalker_j said:


> The idea is to only remove fan leaves that are blocking light from getting to apical growth (the apex from each node, or, "the bud site") and to allow adequate air flow rhrough the plant. I try to bend and tuck any leaves i can under existing branches and i remove the ones that need to be removed. The main reason for ALL THAT TIME IN VEG is TO GROW MORE NODES, NOT LEAVES. For someone raging about the forum being full of misinformation and opinion, then stating that people should learn the science behind the plant , im not exactly reading a whole lot of science in your comment.. Defoliation is good, extreme defoliation can be very harmful unless you know exactly what you are doing. If you can look down on your plant from above and you can see the floor/soil/hydroton/ect.... then you jave removed too many leaves. If there is light hitting your floor, it is wasting that precious light energy the plants could be using if there was a leaf there to absorb it. So, I'll state it again.... defoliating so that every node gets light is very very good for flower development. Extreme defoliation is very bad and you have removed so many solar panels that the plant is not getting as much light energy as it could be and bud growth actually BECOMES SEVERELY RETARDED. If you pulled all the fan leaves and still harvested decent nugs, imagine how much better it could have been if the plant was able to absorb more light per square foot. The only way removing fan leaves improves taste is if you remove them before smoking/processing. Look at the process of mainlining or manifolding and then look at rye results. Ive been growing for 15 years and in a side by side comparison, WHEN IT IS DONE PROPERLY, it definitely grows more bud


hey thanks man,I’m new to this forum and have found most info to be helpful. What you said makes the most sense. When it comes to “the science of the plant” lol . I’m almost forty and have grown a few indoors and a lot of outdoor. So I need all the help I can get with these autos. I got a few photos going that I’m excited to see. If you don’t mind can I hit you up for advice or that’s not how this works?


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## Dreamwalker_j (Apr 20, 2021)

Scwirl1611 said:


> hey thanks man,I’m new to this forum and have found most info to be helpful. What you said makes the most sense. When it comes to “the science of the plant” lol . I’m almost forty and have grown a few indoors and a lot of outdoor. So I need all the help I can get with these autos. I got a few photos going that I’m excited to see. If you don’t mind can I hit you up for advice or that’s not how this works?


Hey, yeah man im happy to help with anything i can. My email is JS.BBEMAIL @ GMAIL.COM. i dont check this message board very often so email me any time you want. Happy growing.


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## DoubleAtotheRON (Apr 20, 2021)

About week 5... like now, I do a final stripping of "shade makers". It gets more light to the mid section that otherwise would make larfy crap. I've had good luck with it, but everybody does it different. Pulled about 15 lbs off this past week. It's made controlling the RH alot easier as well. YMMV.


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## Scwirl1611 (Apr 20, 2021)

Dreamwalker_j said:


> Hey, yeah man im happy to help with anything i can. My email is JS.BBEMAIL @ GMAIL.COM. i dont check this message board very often so email me any time you want. Happy growing.


thanks will do


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## xwant2LeaRNx (Apr 20, 2021)

I defoliate through veg and for first week of flower then one more time when the stretch is done... And lollipop and top and lst


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## Scwirl1611 (Apr 21, 2021)

xwant2LeaRNx said:


> I defoliate through veg and for first week of flower then one more time when the stretch is done... And lollipop and top and lst View attachment 4883774


Nice! How many are there? And is that an auto?


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## xwant2LeaRNx (Apr 21, 2021)

Scwirl1611 said:


> Nice! How many are there? And is that an auto?


8 plants no autos here....


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## GanjaGrowingGranny (Apr 21, 2021)

Acuity said:


> Yes everyone, you should remove your leaves during flowering, not just the fan leaves though. Removal of photosynthate storage and production facilities in a plant is key to it's energy intensive flowering development. In fact everyone just remove all the leaves on your plants and you'll get bumper crops that taste like sugared virgins and rainbows. For real yo.
> 
> [Insert sarcasm here].


 I know this is old but...
If u ask this question on google, ur reply comes up minus the sarcasm


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## Scwirl1611 (Apr 22, 2021)

xwant2LeaRNx said:


> 8 plants no autos here....


See the problem I’m having is with an auto. First time and last.


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## Holeleeshet (Apr 22, 2021)

So I purchased a spider farmer sf 4000 and learned from last harvest to only pull what’s under my scrogg net week one of flower and tuck for a week then untuck. After that raise the light and tie we down. I learned it’s better to only make 8 -10 bud sites that will be the size of my bed on each plant with satellites also having bud sites attached to it then to make as many cola sites as possible making popcorns if that makes sense. Last harvest it took almost 15 weeks to harvest because I pulled way to many levels at week 2 of flower and I got more leaf than calyx ratio. From learning that I am just flipping today and have at least 50 plus branches with main cola sites and sati as live that spider farmer. I’m trying to do a low nitrogen and all p and k for bloom. Gonna try 0-10-10 for flower. Last crop I used tiger farm and it was crap. Burned my ladies badly.


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## Rurumo (Apr 22, 2021)

Holeleeshet said:


> So I purchased a spider farmer sf 4000 and learned from last harvest to only pull what’s under my scrogg net week one of flower and tuck for a week then untuck. After that raise the light and tie we down. I learned it’s better to only make 8 -10 bud sites that will be the size of my bed on each plant with satellites also having bud sites attached to it then to make as many cola sites as possible making popcorns if that makes sense. Last harvest it took almost 15 weeks to harvest because I pulled way to many levels at week 2 of flower and I got more leaf than calyx ratio. From learning that I am just flipping today and have at least 50 plus branches with main cola sites and sati as live that spider farmer. I’m trying to do a low nitrogen and all p and k for bloom. Gonna try 0-10-10 for flower. Last crop I used tiger farm and it was crap. Burned my ladies badly.


Some nitrogen is still important during bloom, it has a huge impact on bud size and plant health, esp during stretch. If you want to tone down nitrogen in the final 3 weeks or so, that would be fine, otherwise you might bottleneck your plants if you do it from the beginning. In general, keeping your PPMs at a normal, healthy level, and not trying to "push" them will create good tasting buds.


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## Holeleeshet (Apr 22, 2021)

For some reason these plants love the ppm at 5.4–5.8. There very acidic I tried using 6.8 and they bairly wanted to take any nutrients at all if any. I have to add lemon juice just to average it out and lower the ph level. I might get Alaska more bloom since it’s 0-10-10 and add a different feed with maybe 2-0-0 and mix em for my feed. That way they get enough nitrogen but potassium for there flower. We’ll see in 12 weeks.


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## Dreamwalker_j (Apr 22, 2021)

Holeleeshet said:


> For some reason these plants love the ppm at 5.4–5.8. There very acidic I tried using 6.8 and they bairly wanted to take any nutrients at all if any. I have to add lemon juice just to average it out and lower the ph level. I might get Alaska more bloom since it’s 0-10-10 and add a different feed with maybe 2-0-0 and mix em for my feed. That way they get enough nitrogen but potassium for there flower. We’ll see in 12 weeks.


Check out gen hydro's koolbloom.the liquid is 0-10-10 but it has extra sulphur to aid essential oil production. The koolbloom powder is for the last 4 weeks and it makes for amazingly big, tight, glass-breaking nuggets. If you get the powder tho, its important to not go over the recommended amount


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## Holeleeshet (Apr 22, 2021)

I’ll look into it


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## Dreamwalker_j (Apr 22, 2021)

Also, with your pH that low are you growing in hydro or soilless? In soil is should be 6.3 because the soil and the bacteria/microbes/root processes drive the pH down an back up. If you literally have no biologicals in your soil (making it soilless, technically) then your pH needs tobe between 5.5 and 6. Personally, i keep ot at 5.8. As the media dries, the pH raises. If you start with a high pH, it will quickly raise too high for the plants to absorb any nutrients. I give between 500 - 700 ppm and in flower its between 900-1200 in late bloom. Then down to 400ppm for 2nd last week before harvest, then 0pmm for the last 7 days, then harvest.


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## Holeleeshet (Apr 22, 2021)

Growing in soil but they act like there in water. You’d think they were hydro. I tried 6.5 and they started to die.


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## Dreamwalker_j (Apr 23, 2021)

Are you sure your pH meter doesnt need caibrating? I've never heard of anyone needing the pH that low in soil unless the nutrients they were using were not the greatest. Theres also a couple brands ive heard of that do weird things like this. Oh and heres a chart that shows you cannabis nutrient requirements throughout its life cycle. an NPK ratio of 1:3:2 is best for early-mid bloom then 1:2:3 for mid-late bloom. Some people (myself included) use a finisher (like the dry koolbloom powder by gen hydro) the koolbloom liquid is a bloom BOOSTER where as the dry koolbkoom powder is meant to shock the plant durin the final 2 weeks before flush and it makes the buds, the calyxes swell with resin and get rock hard.


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## Scwirl1611 (Apr 23, 2021)

Holeleeshet said:


> So I purchased a spider farmer sf 4000 and learned from last harvest to only pull what’s under my scrogg net week one of flower and tuck for a week then untuck. After that raise the light and tie we down. I learned it’s better to only make 8 -10 bud sites that will be the size of my bed on each plant with satellites also having bud sites attached to it then to make as many cola sites as possible making popcorns if that makes sense. Last harvest it took almost 15 weeks to harvest because I pulled way to many levels at week 2 of flower and I got more leaf than calyx ratio. From learning that I am just flipping today and have at least 50 plus branches with main cola sites and sati as live that spider farmer. I’m trying to do a low nitrogen and all p and k for bloom. Gonna try 0-10-10 for flower. Last crop I used tiger farm and it was crap. Burned my ladies badly.


I had the same problem with my first grow and I also used fox farm TB? And I found that ocean Forrest was too strong for baby autos.


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## Scwirl1611 (Apr 23, 2021)

Scwirl1611 said:


> I had the same problem with my first grow and I also used fox farm TB? And I found that ocean Forrest was too strong for baby autos.


You also have to look at the company’s intent and that is to sell more product. So try using half of the recommended dosage. They tell you three teaspoons (to sell more) when one,one and a half should be good.


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## Dreamwalker_j (Apr 23, 2021)

Scwirl1611 said:


> I had the same problem with my first grow and I also used fox farm TB? And I found that ocean Forrest was too strong for baby autos.


Get away from fox farms. I know several guys that have bails of it sitting in the shed because fox farms, innce they make everything in small batches, they messed up the innoculant/biologicals/microbes/bacteria ect.... so the only way to get it to actually be "super-soil" they had to buy fox farm organics and add it to the soil themselves. Thats why they still have 200 gallons of FFOF soil sitting in the shed. You're seriously better off using promix with some perlite and some RAW microbes, its cheaper too. This is one of the many reasons i switched to hydro. Instead of buying all thay soil every time, just buy hydroton once. Uses up to 80% less water too. Sure you need constant power but you know what else does.... ligjtts! So if the power goes out so do your lights, at least in ebb/flow hydro you can still top feed if the pumps wont work but in DWC you're screwed unless you can oxygenate that water somehow. Ok sorry now im starting into a different topic... what was the question again? I love the first toke of the day.


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## xwant2LeaRNx (Apr 23, 2021)

Dreamwalker_j said:


> Get away from fox farms. I know several guys that have bails of it sitting in the shed because fox farms, innce they make everything in small batches, they messed up the innoculant/biologicals/microbes/bacteria ect.... so the only way to get it to actually be "super-soil" they had to buy fox farm organics and add it to the soil themselves. Thats why they still have 200 gallons of FFOF soil sitting in the shed. You're seriously better off using promix with some perlite and some RAW microbes, its cheaper too. This is one of the many reasons i switched to hydro. Instead of buying all thay soil every time, just buy hydroton once. Uses up to 80% less water too. Sure you need constant power but you know what else does.... ligjtts! So if the power goes out so do your lights, at least in ebb/flow hydro you can still top feed if the pumps wont work but in DWC you're screwed unless you can oxygenate that water somehow. Ok sorry now im starting into a different topic... what was the question again? I love the first toke of the day.


I can remember years ago when I was a dirt guy after harvest I would have to discard of so much soil then go buy new soil for my next round.. so then I jumped into hydro my first system was ebb and grow bucket system. Then after those harvests I would be cleaning hydroton for 2 weeks. I kept telling myself there has to be a better way to do this without having to do so much work after harvest. So I got rid of the bucket system and now I just run flood and drain tables with 8-in net pots. A running piece of white felt at the bottom of my table for the roots to grow through.... Cheap and easy set it and forget it.... I still have to clean hydroton after harvest but the amount I'm using now only takes about 30 minutes to clean and I'm done everything else goes in the trash....


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## raggyb (Apr 23, 2021)

no one ever mentions bending fan leaf stems similar to like we do super cropping. does that work? Just pinch it tightly between 2 fingers and it flops right down. I don't really like tucking cause it's all mangled, and I feel stupid buying ties just to tie a fan leaf down. I tried bending it because the leaf was all in the bulb trying to burn itself!


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## Holeleeshet (Apr 23, 2021)

Through veg I used 6–4-4 and just flipped the day before yesterday. I’m gonna use 8-22-18 Alaska. I tried happy farms fish feet last time and it didn’t work out so well. I’m growing peaches this time and it loves its ph at 5.1-6.1 and they like there humidity high as well. I’m assuming it’s where there sativa photo. Last harvest they were a train wreck but doing wonderful this crop. This was last harvest with dialed number in ph levels at 6.8 and ppm of 350. You can see the def. where they nutrient locked. I tried to go higher at first this season thinking it was the other way around but was wrong and it gave magnesium problems. I added that lemon juice and they blew up.


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## xtsho (Apr 23, 2021)

I like to cut fan leaves off as soon as they form. They're just sucking up energy from the plant. I keep all the leaves trimmed. Just stems and sprouts. That way everything goes into the new growth that I keep cutting off to save energy that could be going to new growth. 

And around and around we go.

My plants love their leaves.






Photosynthesis, Chloroplast


The sun is the ultimate source of energy for virtually all organisms. Photosynthetic cells are able to use solar energy to synthesize energy-rich food molecules and to produce oxygen.



www.nature.com


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## Dreamwalker_j (Apr 23, 2021)

raggyb said:


> no one ever mentions bending fan leaf stems similar to like we do super cropping. does that work? Just pinch it tightly between 2 fingers and it flops right down. I don't really like tucking cause it's all mangled, and I feel stupid buying ties just to tie a fan leaf down. I tried bending it because the leaf was all in the bulb trying to burn itself!


I did. I mentioned that I usually bend the leaves and tuck them behind or under a stem or another leaf anywhere its feasale and doesn't block bud sites.


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## raggyb (Apr 23, 2021)

Dreamwalker_j said:


> I did. I mentioned that I usually bend the leaves and tuck them behind or under a stem or another leaf anywhere its feasale and doesn't block bud sites.


yeah the leaf actually straigtened itself out so I bent it again. I didn't expect it to do that.


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## xrdamianxr (Apr 23, 2021)

These pics are each 9 days apart. Daily leaf trimming and LST. And definitely no I'll effect on growth. I've done both no trim and trim. And In my experience trimming over grown fan leaves seems encourages fast growth


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## Dreamwalker_j (Apr 25, 2021)

raggyb said:


> yeah the leaf actually straigtened itself out so I bent it again. I didn't expect it to do that.


Yeah its technically called _phototropism_. The leaves will always try to reposition themselves to absorb as much of that delicious light energy as they can. _Fun Fact: _It's when they are getting too little light energy (either the light is too far away or too dim) that stretch occurs. when they start getting too much light (above 84,000 lux for some strains) the plant starts closing off its photoreceptor cells in an attempt to protect itself from too much light. If left unchecked for too long, the plant will not reopen those photoreceptor cells even after you lower the intensity and the plants (and you) will suffer a severely diminished and stunted harvest.


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## Holeleeshet (Apr 27, 2021)

Last time I cut and lost a good 13-15 oz because of calyx to leaf ratio so I’m leaving all of them on until they wilt yellow from the nitrogen telling me they need more. I might have pull a couple big fans on top when I defoliate week two of flower but it will be very lightly and maybe one big from each cola site. Ladies are looking good but need watered tonight.


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## Holeleeshet (Apr 27, 2021)

xrdamianxr said:


> These pics are each 9 days apart. Daily leaf trimming and LST. And definitely no I'll effect on growth. I've done both no trim and trim. And In my experience trimming over grown fan leaves seems encourages fast growth


It works well when u do that to pull the big leaves but when that happens your also opening up that door for nitrogen to push up in more places faster then it’s needed. I never trim anything unless it’s week 1 after final transfer and week two of flower. Good luck you got a nice looking bush growing there. I would pull them six cola sites on your corners straight as an arrow as far as you can get em and let them lower nodes peak out. You’ll gain another six sites cause right now I can see part of there edges under you colas in the scrogg net


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## PJ Diaz (Apr 27, 2021)

Holeleeshet said:


> Last time I cut and lost a good 13-15 oz because of calyx to leaf ratio so I’m leaving all of them on until they wilt yellow from the nitrogen telling me they need more. I might have pull a couple big fans on top when I defoliate week two of flower but it will be very lightly and maybe one big from each cola site. Ladies are looking good but need watered tonight.


Narrow leaf varieties don't need as much leaf removal as broad leaf varieties. That said, I doubt you lost 13oz in that small space because of leaf plucking.


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## Holeleeshet (Apr 27, 2021)

Also I would go buy a pack of bananas and put the peels in water for a week and use it for some potassium when your vegging. Mine turned yellow like that and I gave em a potassium bath in between a feed.


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## PJ Diaz (Apr 27, 2021)

Holeleeshet said:


> Also I would go buy a pack of bananas and put the peels in water for a week and use it for some potassium when your vegging. Mine turned yellow like that and I gave em a potassium bath in between a feed.


You're bananas.


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## Holeleeshet (Apr 27, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> Narrow leaf varieties don't need as much leaf removal as broad leaf varieties. That said, I doubt you lost 13oz in that small space because of leaf plucking.


If not 13 close to it. All my buds didn’t dense and only grew foxtails up. I over plucked at flower and I ended up making the colas grow a foxtail and sugar leave between each layer all the way to the tips. You can see how many sugar leaves are on em.


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## Holeleeshet (Apr 27, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> You're bananas.


And your on of them people who always over analyze what advice one gives and assume your opinion is superior to others. I’ve banana peeled my pot for years and they love it. Especially in coco


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## PJ Diaz (Apr 27, 2021)

Holeleeshet said:


> If not 13 close to it. All my buds didn’t dense and only grew foxtails up. I over plucked at flower and I ended up making the colas grow a foxtail and sugar leave between each layer all the way to the tips. You can see how many sugar leaves are on em.





Holeleeshet said:


> And your on of them people who always over analyze what advice one gives and assume your opinion is superior to others. I’ve banana peeled my pot for years and they love it. Especially in coco


I stand by my previous assessment.


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## Dreamwalker_j (Apr 28, 2021)

Holeleeshet said:


> If not 13 close to it. All my buds didn’t dense and only grew foxtails up. I over plucked at flower and I ended up making the colas grow a foxtail and sugar leave between each layer all the way to the tips. You can see how many sugar leaves are on em.


Poor calyx to leaf ratio can be genetic or caused by grower error and foxtailing can be genetic too, however, if you have good genetics, proper defoliation will not make them foxtail. Proper defoliation only removes fan leaves that are blocking light to the nodes. If you can look down at your canopy and see the floor/soil/hydroton/whatever, you have removed too much foliage and are now wasting light. PGRs will also cause foxtailing as well as compost teas, if you have weaker genetincs or if you feed them any PGR past week 6. Too much phosphorous will also make them foxtail, but again, if you have good genetics, its unlikely (unless the foxtailing IS genetic). I have stripped almost every fan leaf off of a plant before doing an experiment and with almost no fan leaves, 18 inches under 1KW HPS, no foxtailing. The buds were definitely suffering for it but no foxtailing. So, especially since there are multiple causes for foxtailing, defoliation being the least likely, please stop spreading misinformation about defoliation. Defoliation, like most other things, is good in moderation. If you think you are right then prove it by getting good genetics, proving they are good genetics (like breeder packaging) and grow them without using a PGR or anything with triacantanol in it and defoliate them properly. Grow to clones from the same mom side by side and defoliate one properly and leave the other alone. If you are right then only the one you defoliate should foxtail, right? If you are so sure of what you know that you are advising others on the subject, you'll have no problem proving that people should listen to you instead of science and decades of experience. Sorry if i sound like an asshat but i hate it when people spread misinformation. If you had bad results from doing something that everyone else has great results with, then you did it wrong. THAT is why your harvest was apparently 13 oz under. By the way, im curious, with a space that size and you claim you lost over 3/4 of a pound, are you saying that because you have grown that exact strain in that exact setup last cycle and 13oz less OR did you just get 13oz less than what you were expecting? Im sorry if this post seems harsh but proper defoliation is a huge boost to node growth, air circulation, and helps keep humidity lower in bloom. If you had a bad experience with something, call it a bad experience until you test it again, properly and get the same results.. what nutrients and additives were you using, what was your TDS throughout flower? What type of lighting were you using? How close were the lights? What strain were you growing? Where were the genetics from? Have you tried to repeat exactly what you did with a different strain?


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## Dreamwalker_j (Apr 28, 2021)

Scwirl1611 said:


> You also have to look at the company’s intent and that is to sell more product. So try using half of the recommended dosage. They tell you three teaspoons (to sell more) when one,one and a half should be good.


Exactly right. Companies will tell you to use the strongest possible dose you can technically give them without them dying instantly. Because the faster you use your nutes, the faster you buy more. I use gen hydro nutes (except for my proprietary blend to increase terpenes and essential oils) and they recommend 1000-1400ppm in mid bloom and even at 900ppm they were still getting burnt tips. 50-60% strength seems to be best.


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## Holeleeshet (May 5, 2021)

It Came from the same closet and same mother plant. I’m on my third with same genetic. First round I pulled 13 ounces more than the second. To me that’s a loss. My ceiling is ten feet high and my light goes up to eight. Each plant a pull right under or over a pound. But I pulled to way to many way to far in flower. This time I only pulled the bottom out and leaving my big fans to prevent light stress cause this sf 4000 is massive . I have to leave my light at 60 for flower and that’s pushing par levels in my closet. I’m in week two of flower and there already reaching close to 25 plus inches tucked in two scroggs. Third times a charm ehhh.


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## bk78 (May 5, 2021)

Holeleeshet said:


> It Came from the same closet and same mother plant. I’m on my third with same genetic. First round I pulled 13 ounces more than the second. To me that’s a loss. My ceiling is ten feet high and my light goes up to eight. Each plant a pull right under or over a pound. But I pulled to way to many way to far in flower. This time I only pulled the bottom out and leaving my big fans to prevent light stress cause this sf 4000 is massive . I have to leave my light at 60 for flower and that’s pushing par levels in my closet. I’m in week two of flower and there already reaching close to 25 plus inches tucked in two scroggs. Third times a charm ehhh.


A pound a plant eh?

sounds like monsters, any pics?


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## Holeleeshet (May 5, 2021)

My light was 30 inches at 60 percent. If I go any farther it puts me par way over my closet size. It’s so strong I have to leave it 30 inches or I cook the center canopy. Using the sf4000 and my intake is Vivosun 440cfm. I pulled so many big fans too far in flower I think and they reached for light and stressed out and fox tailed.


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## MICHI-CAN (May 5, 2021)

bk78 said:


> A pound a plant eh?
> 
> sounds like monsters, any pics?


Was ready to enter a jungle. Guess monkey was me. LOL.


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## Holeleeshet (May 5, 2021)

bk78 said:


> A pound a plant eh?
> 
> There Clones from a mother monster I got from a med.


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## MICHI-CAN (May 5, 2021)

Multi-generational mother and I'm a noob. Be nice!


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## vintagedvd (May 6, 2021)

Hi everyone !
First 4 pictures show a before and after massacre,
and the next 2 pictures show the previous harvest,
with the same method, same clones from the same mother...
He also said:
"Well there was this thread in 08' called "Size does matter", there was a cat named jrosek that posted up with giving them haircuts at around 21 days, I had followed arguments about it over on OG, and I was def. from the school of NEVER cut fans off. That being said, it started really making sense to me as I am a traditional SOG guy, I did a test run with about a 1/4 of my room and keep track of what each plant weighed after, and the averages on the ones with the haircut were higher, noticably! The dont need those leaves the last 2/3 of flower, you dont cut them all off, and the have all the leaves coming out of the flower sites. I've had friends come over and see the garden after the haircut and be totally shocked! And, then they come back at the end, and go shit god damn. Not all strains respond well, but I dont cut any branches off, and I would have to say that a plant is gonna have less shock from taking a dying fan leaf, than a growing branch. It's not for everyone, but if you have the nerve and the numbers, I think you'll be surprised at how the bottom nugs are dense and not larfy! This is just what I've been doing for about a year and half, with great results! I average anywhere between 4 to 10 grams more on average per plant. I did tests weighing every plant, doing it on half tables, after a couple of runs, the proof was in the pudding (stole that from you J). There are plenty of leaves coming out of the flowers to sustain energy. This again is just what I spent months testing, and decided it worked for me. I just chose to try doing something outside the box. "






2000watt flip/flop SOG


Just subscribed and voted 5 stars! keep up the badass work bro! I posted a pic of my next project on my thread, 4x4 ebb and flow sog under 1k, hope to look alot like yours when im done. Props again.



www.icmag.com




I sent him a PM asking if he has any insight now, more than a decade later. I'll post here if he replys.
That being said, I could never do that. I know my setup, how much I can expect to harvest. I have healthy plants, decent buds for my light, slightly burned tips but no deficiencys, so all is within the sweet spot.
I think there's a individual defoliating formula, involving strain, genotype, training applied, grow medium, air, light, synthetic/organic, indoor/outdoor and so on.
That's why we see 2 sides, both thinking they are right, but with so many variables, the only thing we have in common is we all grow weed.


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## twentyeight.threefive (May 6, 2021)

Holeleeshet said:


> My light was 30 inches at 60 percent. If I go any farther it puts me par way over my closet size. It’s so strong I have to leave it 30 inches or I cook the center canopy. Using the sf4000 and my intake is Vivosun 440cfm. I pulled so many big fans too far in flower I think and they reached for light and stressed out and fox tailed.


Looks like maybe 3 ounces, not a pound.


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## Roger A. Shrubber (May 7, 2021)

Holeleeshet said:


> My light was 30 inches at 60 percent. If I go any farther it puts me par way over my closet size. It’s so strong I have to leave it 30 inches or I cook the center canopy. Using the sf4000 and my intake is Vivosun 440cfm. I pulled so many big fans too far in flower I think and they reached for light and stressed out and fox tailed.


you pulled a pound out of that closet?


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## par4in1 (Dec 28, 2021)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> you pulled a pound out of that closet?
> 
> View attachment 4896231


Even the crickets stopped chirping


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## Holeleeshet (Jan 3, 2022)

I actually pulled 1pd and 2 oz out my closet when it finished. Idk if it’s my closet in reference but when it’s 2x4 ft and ten feet high. Length works wonders when it doesn’t affect how much you reach em. I got a momma purple in my tent this grow and she loves it. She might pull 6 oz maybe More if I push it. She’s week 16 and still throwing pistils and covered in that frosty.


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