# Why should I respect your beliefs?



## Padawanbater2 (Jun 29, 2012)

If I believe your beliefs, when practiced in the real world, are dangerous?


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## Kaendar (Jun 29, 2012)

This is a bait thread and im running as fast as possible in the opposite direction. Im sure CWE will be here soon enuf tho..


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## Zaehet Strife (Jun 29, 2012)

I don't think i understand.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> This is a bait thread and im running as fast as possible in the opposite direction. Im sure CWE will be here soon enuf tho..


Dont forget to bring your bible! (Towley voice)


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## Kaendar (Jun 29, 2012)

I will say one thing tho. You dont have to respect the belief, but you do have to respect the persons right to believe. Which means you cant prejudice their reason for believing at all.


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## cannabineer (Jun 29, 2012)

I don't believe this. cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 29, 2012)

Depends on who's beliefs you're following. If you voice kaendar's beliefs, you'll surely catch a swift kick in the ass. In that case, yes, it's dangerous.


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## Cut.Throat. (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> I will say one thing tho. You dont have to respect the belief, but you do have to respect the persons right to believe. Which means you cant prejudice their reason for believing at all.


So you respect the KKK's right to believe that black people are inferior?


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## Kaendar (Jun 29, 2012)

Exceptions to the rule: Satanism, or any type of pagan worship that can endanger others health, any type of racist teachings, and also any cult (ya know, the lets all kill ourselves type, not Jehovahs witness or Scientology types).


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> I will say one thing tho. You dont have to respect the belief, but you do have to respect the persons right to believe. Which means you cant prejudice their reason for believing at all.


This isn't a bait thread, don't assume everything. 

That's an honest question, and I'm trying to make a point. Beliefs shouldn't be respected just because somebody believes them. Do you agree, or disagree with that? 

What makes a belief respectable, to you? 


I can respect a person only so far as their beliefs carry them. Why would I respect a person if they believed that euthanizing the homeless was the right thing to do? Or that a person was less of a person because of the color of their skin? 

Forgive me if you find this kind of conversation _offensive_..


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> Exceptions to the rule: Satanism, or any type of pagan worship that can endanger others health, any type of racist teachings, and also any cult (ya know, the lets all kill ourselves type, not Jehovahs witness or Scientology types).


Even in Satanism there is some truth! Everyone is their own god, or everyone is a god... Thats about all I know about Satanism besides some freaky sacrifices and stuff.


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## Cut.Throat. (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> Exceptions to the rule: Satanism, or any type of pagan worship that can endanger others health, any type of racist teachings, and also any cult (ya know, the lets all kill ourselves type, not Jehovahs witness or Scientology types).


Why does it have to be pagan worship? Endangering others health is ok if it's only one god?


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## Heisenberg (Jun 29, 2012)

What do you mean by respect? I am not sure how you can respect a belief you do not believe in, even if it is non-harmful. The respect assigned to a belief comes from the answers or direction it provides, and rarely do people who's beliefs provide solid answers plead for respect. When people ask for respect, the respect they are demanding is respect for freedom of speech, respect for standards of conduct, respect for a person right not to have their own thoughts controlled. The only valid request for respect for a particular belief must be accompanied by solid information, knowledge or perspective.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 29, 2012)

Furthermore, I'd take it as far as arguing that respecting beliefs for the sake of... what, not being offensive? has actually harmed people. 

That idea is just silly, when you actually think about it.

I think people should be called out on the stupid things they believe, this includes me! Why is it OK for people to believe things that aren't true? That we _know_ aren't true? 

[youtube]UkrkaH_V7fE[/youtube]

Believe it or not, ^^^ hurts people. 

"is the world flat?... Idk Whoopie... I've never thought about it..."

Are. You. Serious? 


Honest question, do you think people should be called out on beliefs like that? Should I respect that belief because that woman believes it? 

I'm not saying stand up and call the woman an idiot, that's pretty mean, it would publicly humiliate her, why would I get any kind of pleasure in doing that? That isn't the goal. The goal is to have people understand that reality isn't something you can argue with, you don't get to pick and choose what's real and what's fake..


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 29, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> What do you mean by respect? I am not sure how you can respect a belief you do not believe in, even if it is non-harmful. The respect assigned to a belief comes from the answers or direction it provides, and rarely do people who's beliefs provide solid answers plead for respect. When people ask for respect, the respect they are demanding is respect for freedom of speech, respect for standards of conduct, respect for a person right not to have their own thoughts controlled. The only valid request for respect for a particular belief must be accompanied by solid information, knowledge or perspective.


Ah, so are you saying if you don't accept a belief as true, you can't/aren't under any obligation to _respect_ it?


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 29, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Even in Satanism there is some truth! Everyone is their own god, or everyone is a god... Thats about all I know about Satanism besides some freaky sacrifices and stuff.


I'm sure there's truth to every single religion, even Scientology. 

But just because something has an element of truth to it doesn't mean it's true, right?


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## Heisenberg (Jun 29, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Ah, so are you saying if you don't accept a belief as true, you can't/aren't under any obligation to _respect_ it?


Exactly, though as you point out, it does not give us the right to silence beliefs, or demand they be abandoned. We allow people like Oprah to voice her beliefs because we respect free speech, and by that very same standard we must allow people who criticize Oprah to have a voice as well, nothing disrespectful about it. Spreading beliefs like most of the ones she does is demonstrably wrong, but we have ample tools to deal with that besides controlling her speech, and respecting her rights or the standards of conduct should not interfere with those tools at all.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 29, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> Exactly, though as you point out, it does not give us the right to silence beliefs, or demand they be abandoned. We allow people like Oprah to voice her beliefs because we respect free speech, and by that very same standard we must allow people who criticize Oprah to have a voice as well, nothing disrespectful about it. Spreading beliefs like most of the ones she does is demonstrably wrong, but we have ample tools to deal with that besides controlling her speech, and respecting her rights or the standards of conduct should not interfere with those tools at all.


OK, I get what you're saying. She can have all the silly beliefs she wants, that's America, free speech, something I don't disagree with. But we should also have equal free speech to disagree, and voice our disagreement (any way we see fit?) accordingly. How far does this extend? Do you think I have the right to publicly say something like "She's [the woman saying she doesn't know if the world is round or flat..] an IDIOT!" (even though that's not what I would personally say, just an example)? 

Do I have the right to my free speech, even though it may offend people who disagree with what I have to say?


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## Kaendar (Jun 29, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> This isn't a bait thread, don't assume everything.
> 
> That's an honest question, and I'm trying to make a point. Beliefs shouldn't be respected just because somebody believes them. Do you agree, or disagree with that?
> 
> ...


Ok you have a point. I assumed this was just gonna be another atheist propoganda thread. Well not all beliefs should be respected. Refer to my exceptions post.


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## Heisenberg (Jun 29, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> OK, I get what you're saying. She can have all the silly beliefs she wants, that's America, free speech, something I don't disagree with. But we should also have equal free speech to disagree, and voice our disagreement (any way we see fit?) accordingly. How far does this extend? Do you think I have the right to publicly say something like "She's [the woman saying she doesn't know if the world is round or flat..] an IDIOT!" (even though that's not what I would personally say, just an example)?




You have the right to say she is an idiot if you then support the right for people to backlash. That backlash might include criticism of your conduct, but something like that is a choice of expression, and therefore okay. Again even if you clean up your expression, to say something like "the woman is not with reality", you are still bowing to the pressure to respect conduct, and not the belief. How far does it extend? It extends as far as words allow. It stops at actions, which includes inciting action.



> Do I have the right to my free speech, even though it may offend people who disagree with what I have to say?


That is the very idea behind free speech, because there is no one standard for what is offensive. Everything you do and everything you say offends someone somewhere. Any clothing you put on will be objectionable to someone, and if you take them all off you are offending people too. The only way we could guarantee no one offended anyone else is if we made everyone stay inside and never talk or look at one another.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 29, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> You have the right to say she is an idiot if you then support the right for people to backlash. That backlash might include criticism of your conduct, but something like that is a choice of expression, and therefore okay. Again even if you clean up your expression, to say something like "the woman is not with reality", you are still bowing to the pressure to respect conduct, and not the belief. How far does it extend? It extends as far as words allow. It stops at actions, which includes inciting action.
> 
> 
> 
> That is the very idea behind free speech, because there is no one standard for what is offensive. Everything you do and everything you say offends someone somewhere. Any clothing you put on with be objectionable to someone, and if you take them all off you are offending people too. The only way we could guarantee no one offended anyone else is if we made everyone stay inside and never talk or look at one another.


It's too bad people like you don't get elected to public office..


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## bluntmassa1 (Jun 29, 2012)

of course it aint my buissness if they want to where bed sheets and hang around a fire damning minorities their no worse then those religos nuts who say I'm going to hell cause I don't beleive the right religon or go to their church 


Cut.Throat. said:


> So you respect the KKK's right to believe that black people are inferior?


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## Seedling (Jun 29, 2012)

Thoughts and actions are two different things...

The difference between prejudice and discrimination is that prejudice is a thought, and discrimination is an action. You see the difference? Well, the same goes for the difference between beliefs and actions. A person can believe whatever they like, but it's their ACTIONS for which they are held accountable. People can say what they believe, but they are then responsible for those words. Freedom of speech doesn't mean that it's okay for you to go around town slandering somebody, that is against the law. You can express your ideas, but if they are later found to be unsubstantiated and harmful to another, you are held accountable!!


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## scroglodyte (Jun 29, 2012)

.................so i don't bust yer nose


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## Doer (Jun 29, 2012)

Funny thing is, I doublt many will realize what respect is. You can't demand respect. That's gangland and it's not respect.

No one needs to respect belief, but many people don't give a bit of respect to the next guy as a fellow struggler in the game of life.

Respect, to me has bcome a sily, thowaway word like Trust or Truth. If we can't respect a fellow for his fellowship alone, you won't be able to undersand his beliefs, cause you are not listening, right? This is especially true in forum. 

You don't know anything except what is written. You don't know the person or their persona, or if they are DEA, or Juvie Sex trolls. So, I say we should respect our own ignorance in the situation. And we should have some natural respect for anyone that comes with ideas to discuss. It is not that easy to express ourselves in writting.

So, my question to myself, do I possesses self-respect, at this moment? We can callenge beliefs and that's good for all.
But, it is an art to learn how not to be a turd in forum.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> I will say one thing tho. You dont have to respect the belief, but you do have to respect the persons right to believe. Which means you cant prejudice their reason for believing at all.


it depends where you live , in some countries still today , merely talking about your beliefs could get you killed ,and this was world wide not to many years ago .


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## Doer (Jun 29, 2012)

As I see this, anywhere in the world, at any moment, one can be seriously injured by talking about the wrong belief. It even extends to forum.

The mob is a danger whereerver we go. And it only takes one person to shout, He's a _____________, get him!


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## cannabineer (Jun 29, 2012)

Aw crap. Not _________s. Grab the torches and pitchforks!! cn


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## Kaendar (Jun 29, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> of course it aint my buissness if they want to where bed sheets and hang around a fire damning minorities their no worse then those religos nuts who say I'm going to hell cause I don't beleive the right religon or go to their church


You cant compare a church to the Klan. Thats just stupid.


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## Heisenberg (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> You cant compare a church to the Klan. Thats just stupid.


They are each a result of adhering to and failing to question an ideology. They both foster hate, preach intolerance and they are the same in their dogmatic nature.


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## Kaendar (Jun 29, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> They are each a result of adhering to and failing to question an ideology. They both foster hate, preach intolerance and they are the same in their dogmatic nature.


You are insane. Churches are all about helping others and improving the quality of life. The KKK is all about hate and bigotry. You sir have negative feelings towards the church, which means your opinion has been compromised.


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## cannabineer (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> You are insane. Churches are all about helping others and improving the quality of life. The KKK is all about hate and bigotry. You sir have negative feelings towards the church, which means your opinion has been compromised.


Dissenting opinion. Many many churches, including *all *the truly virulent Evangelical denominations, are about divisiveness. Chosen v. Damned. To me _that _is evil incarnate. They are the actual Satanists, because no decent God would want people so blindered. cn


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## Cut.Throat. (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> You are insane. *Churches are all about helping others and improving the quality of life.* The KKK is all about hate and bigotry. You sir have negative feelings towards the church, which means your opinion has been compromised.


As long as you adhere to their beliefs. If not they'll damn you and preach down on you in a heartbeat. True story.


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## Kaendar (Jun 29, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Dissenting opinion. Many many churches, including *all *the truly virulent Evangelical denominations, are about divisiveness. Chosen v. Damned. To me _that _is evil incarnate. They are the actual Satanists, because no decent God would want people so blindered. cn


Ok, if thats how you interpret that.. but it still cant be compared to the outright hate that the KKK preaches. Look at a church - they offer forgiveness, programs for you and your kids, assistance when you need it, emotional support, etc.. all in the name of saving souls for god. Look at the KKK - they teach hate, intolerance, ignorance, and lies based on the color of somebodies skin. Im sorry, but comparing the 2 is stupid. Its like comparing someone that has to use prescription narcotics for back pain to a heroin addict.


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## cannabineer (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> Ok, if thats how you interpret that.. but it still cant be compared to the outright hate that the KKK preaches. Look at a church - they offer forgiveness, programs for you and your kids, assistance when you need it, emotional support, etc.. all in the name of saving souls for god. Look at the KKK - they teach hate, intolerance, ignorance, and lies based on the color of somebodies skin. Im sorry, but comparing the 2 is stupid. Its like comparing someone that has to use prescription narcotics for back pain to a heroin addict.


The KKK is at least honest and open about their hate. The churches who preach their hate, their artificial but ideologically required divisions, camouflage it. They're the worse criminals of the mind. (My opinion.) cn


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## Kaendar (Jun 29, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> The KKK is at least honest and open about their hate. The churches who preach their hate, their artificial but ideologically required divisions, camouflage it. They're the worse criminals of the mind. (My opinion.) cn


Churches dont preach hate. They teach that anyone, even KKK members have a chance at salvation. They dont single out anybody and say that they are less or anything. Dont get me wrong, there are some false churches like that one that burnt the qurans, but thats a tiny percent.. maybe 1 out of every 1000 is extreme like that.


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## Heisenberg (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> You are insane. Churches are all about helping others and improving the quality of life. The KKK is all about hate and bigotry. You sir have negative feelings towards the church, which means your opinion has been compromised.


You misunderstand. The KKK does charitable things as well. Doesn't change the fact that the ideology is flawed and fosters discrimination.

I suggest you look at the things the church has done when it had all the power. They burned women for being witches, because witchcraft was seen as the devils work. They skipped the step where they ask themselves if the devil is real. They covered the feet of non-believers in fat and roasted them. (The fat helped the nerve endings last longer) Once these non-believers succumbed to the pain and accepted God, they killed them immediately before they could backslide, for the benefit of their soul. Now, if these people had admitted they can not prove a soul, that it is merely a belief they prefer, would they then be able to find the ability to do these horrible things to people? I could fill this entire thread with examples of people committing heinous acts against their fellow man due to some belief they can't even begin to substantiate. If the church had it's way, there would be no tolerance for middle ground, no tolerance for non-belief.

Sophistication has eliminated potential for some of the most terrible acts, but we still see plenty of examples of a false and unproven ideology causing people to have ill-will towards their fellow man. This is my criticism of the church, irresponsibility, arrogance, and hypocrisy. (hypocrisy meaning, being critical of others and not yourself). The good that comes from the churches ideology is not unique to the church, it is not necessary to be a christian to want to help others. Atheists are capable of being just a charitable and for near identical reasons.

As you say, you have never personally seen an atheist help. That doesn't mean there isn't evidence of it that you yourself can view if you look. Denying that atheists can be charitable simply because you have not personally witnessed it is an example of bigotry. You are ignoring solid evidence and logic based arguments in favor of preserving your prejudice, and using a disingenuous reason to back it up. I can tell by your words that you are smart enough to realize that seeing an atheist help personally is an unreasonable qualification for believing they never help at all. It also doesn't seem that hard of a concept to understand that placing good acts and bad acts on a scale and weighing them doesn't lend any credence to the ideology behind them. We call that sort of thinking an appeal to final consequences. The idea that we can believe something because good things happen if we do. Not only is it a false idea (bad things happen as well) but it does nothing to speak to the truth value of the belief.


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## Kaendar (Jun 29, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> You misunderstand. The KKK does charitable things as well. Doesn't change the fact that the ideology is flawed and fosters discrimination.
> 
> I suggest you look at the things the church has done when it had all the power. They burned women for being witches, because witchcraft was seen as the devils work. They skipped the step where they ask themselves if the devil is real. They covered the feet of non-believers in fat and roasted them. (The fat helped the nerve endings last longer) Once these non-believers succumbed to the pain and accepted God, they killed them immediately before they could backslide, for the benefit of their soul. Now, if these people had admitted they can not prove a soul, that it is merely a belief they prefer, would they then be able to find the ability to do these horrible things to people? I could fill this entire thread with examples of people committing heinous acts against their fellow man due to some belief they can't even begin to substantiate. If the church had it's way, there would be no tolerance for middle ground, no tolerance for non-belief.
> 
> ...


Salem witch trials? Your talkin about stuff from a long time ago. Name an instance in modern times where a legitimate church did any harm or taught anything hateful.


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## Cut.Throat. (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> Salem witch trials? Your talkin about stuff from a long time ago. Name an instance in modern times where a legitimate church did any harm or taught anything hateful.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/17/pope-africa-condoms-aids


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## cannabineer (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> Churches dont preach hate. They teach that anyone, even KKK members have a chance at salvation. They dont single out anybody and say that they are less or anything. Dont get me wrong, there are some false churches like that one that burnt the qurans, but thats a tiny percent.. maybe 1 out of every 1000 is extreme like that.


If you really, _really _study the First Commandment, you'll find the hinge of it right there. Divide. Conquer. Hate the Other. Imo. cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 29, 2012)

Comparing the KKK to regular everyday churches is like comparing seaweed to a cheeseburger. They're both food, but one is far worse IMO (the KKK).

Neer is right in saying "they're the worst criminals of the mind", but I'd rather deal with somebody that preaches things that can be shot down with logic than having to deal with somebody that would gather a group of people to chase me down and beat me to death.


Apologies to anybody that enjoys seaweed.


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## Doer (Jun 29, 2012)

And really, do we need to split hairs? Our highest aspirations become twisted tools of hate. Par for the course, I'd say. My worst enemy is my own blindness to Truth. Now I know that word is taken, and to try to attribute another meaning is woo. Granted. I stiptulate to that.

So, without allowing any poetic license at all, to me, we are blinded from essential facts. There are so many I can't list them again, but I have discussed the conundrum of Now. And all who think it is easy, to actually, be clear of the mind cloud, are wrong They can't do it, I say, unless they have stopped dismissing the worth of it.

From the Perspective most don't kmow exisst, there are certain facts in evidence. I can only summerize to say we each are being seriously bullied by our own mind cloud. And every petty stupidity and cruelty comes from there.

In other words, we have met the enemy and it is us, personally against us, with all this hope belief, meanspirit and fear, judgement and rejection. Expectation and Reget, bad behaviour in general. We are kept from the comfort of Now. This is the Truth that is keeps us from, by us. Not any woo, at all.


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## cannabineer (Jun 29, 2012)

Doer ... have you just gone to plaid?  cn


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## Heisenberg (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> Salem witch trials? Your talkin about stuff from a long time ago. Name an instance in modern times where a legitimate church did any harm or taught anything hateful.


Hello...September 11th. Aids in Africa. Birth control/abortion. Stem cell research. Preventing education of science, namely evolution. None of this stuff comes from atheism. It can all be traced back to acting on beliefs before you substantiate them.

You missed the point. The acts themselves are a separate criticism. The point is, dogmatically adhering to a belief, being afraid to question it and give it honest review, often leads to people feeling a false sense of authority and feeling justified, even entitled, to commit irrational and harmful acts. 

My criticism is not the acts themselves, but the ideas that support the acts. You can not name any heinous acts that have stemmed from _skeptical_ atheism. You could name horrible atheists, but their horror does not arise from their ideology on God.


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## Heisenberg (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> Salem witch trials? Your talkin about stuff from a long time ago. Name an instance in modern times where a legitimate church did any harm or taught anything hateful.



And again, did you seriously think about this question yourself before you asked me? Why do you feel you can be critical of others without first being critical of yourself? You are smart enough to have answered this question with just a little thought. I mean I laid out the ground work for you.


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## st0wandgrow (Jun 29, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> Exactly, though as you point out, it does not give us the right to silence beliefs, or demand they be abandoned. We allow people like Oprah to voice her beliefs because we respect free speech, and by that very same standard we must allow people who criticize Oprah to have a voice as well, nothing disrespectful about it. Spreading beliefs like most of the ones she does is demonstrably wrong, but we have ample tools to deal with that besides controlling her speech, and respecting her rights or the standards of conduct should not interfere with those tools at all.



I don't watch Oprah often, but I've always had the impression that she's a pretty good person, with a pretty good set of values.

Can you shed some light for me on your comment ..." Spreading beliefs like most of the ones she does is demonstrably wrong..."


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## Heisenberg (Jun 29, 2012)

st0wandgrow said:


> I don't watch Oprah often, but I've always had the impression that she's a pretty good person, with a pretty good set of values.
> 
> Can you shed some light for me on your comment ..." Spreading beliefs like most of the ones she does is demonstrably wrong..."


When I say wrong, I mean irresponsible and very often harmful.

She promotes 'the secret'. The idea that wanting something bad enough tells the universe to give it to you, even if that something is being cured of cancer or aids. She promotes alternative medicines as opposed to evidence-based medicine. She preaches against vaccination and claims they cause autism. She claims thyroid dysfunction is due to "a lifetime of 'swallowing' words one is aching to say." She thinks psychics who claim to talk to dead loved ones are helping people. She gives credence to all sort of ideologies and pseudoscience and, if you look deep enough, it certainly appears as if she knows at least some of what she is doing and does it for ratings.


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## Doer (Jun 29, 2012)

Plaid!?

Red, red, I love red, there is no subsitute for red. 

Or is plaid some other reference that I'm just not grasping?


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## cannabineer (Jun 29, 2012)

Doer said:


> Plaid!?
> 
> Red, red, I love red, there is no subsitute for red.
> 
> Or is plaid some other reference that I just not grasping?


[video=youtube;NP6DXoNKITc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP6DXoNKITc[/video]


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## Cut.Throat. (Jun 29, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> [video=youtube;NP6DXoNKITc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP6DXoNKITc[/video]


Omg spaceballs. Downloading now.


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## Doer (Jun 29, 2012)

Well, yes, thank you. That does just about cover it. 

Was watching a show about nothing. No not, Seinfeld. Wormhole. Just gotta love Freeman's voice. IAC, the quantum energy contained in a speck of Nothing is enough to wipe out the Universe. OK, that got my attention. It's the quantum vacumn that isolates and modiulates the particles appearant strengh., in this Reality. oooOK???


But, then thinking about the quantum mind, we should be able to experience those non-cusual energy exchanges, directly. And perhaps they represent the Music, the harmonious ever changing sounds that become present when the mind cloud is ducked.

That's Plaid, right?


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## cannabineer (Jun 29, 2012)

There's a level beyond, and it's Paisley. It's like Plaid but relativistic.  cn


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 29, 2012)

canna, what were people of the 70's thinking with those clothes, and people of the 80's with that hair?


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## cannabineer (Jun 29, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> canna, what were people of the 70's thinking with those clothes, and people of the 80's with that hair?


Pretty much the same thing the people of the Naughties were thinking with those tats. Diff is, we could shave our clothes and change our hair. cn


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## Shannon Alexander (Jun 29, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Comparing the KKK to regular everyday churches is like comparing seaweed to a cheeseburger. They're both food, but one is far worse IMO (the KKK).
> 
> Neer is right in saying "they're the worst criminals of the mind", but I'd rather deal with somebody that preaches things that can be shot down with logic than having to deal with somebody that would gather a group of people to chase me down and beat me to death.
> 
> ...



Apology accepted...


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## Doer (Jun 29, 2012)

Powder Blue Paisley <aaaaahhhhhh>


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 29, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Pretty much the same thing the people of the Naughties were thinking with those tats. Diff is, we could shave our clothes and change our hair. cn


Yeah glad I missed the tribal craze! lol


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## Kaendar (Jun 29, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Comparing the KKK to regular everyday churches is like comparing seaweed to a cheeseburger. They're both food, but one is far worse IMO (the KKK).
> 
> Neer is right in saying "they're the worst criminals of the mind", but I'd rather deal with somebody that preaches things that can be shot down with logic than having to deal with somebody that would gather a group of people to chase me down and beat me to death.
> 
> ...


More like dogshit to filet mignon.


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## Kaendar (Jun 29, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> Hello...September 11th. Aids in Africa. Birth control/abortion. Stem cell research. Preventing education of science, namely evolution. None of this stuff comes from atheism. It can all be traced back to acting on beliefs before you substantiate them.
> 
> You missed the point. The acts themselves are a separate criticism. The point is, dogmatically adhering to a belief, being afraid to question it and give it honest review, often leads to people feeling a false sense of authority and feeling justified, even entitled, to commit irrational and harmful acts.
> 
> My criticism is not the acts themselves, but the ideas that support the acts. You can not name any heinous acts that have stemmed from _skeptical_ atheism. You could name horrible atheists, but their horror does not arise from their ideology on God.


September 11? I thought there was a seperation of church and state.. and aids in Africa? My church's youth group went on a mission to West Africa to help AIDs and malaria victims. And all non denominational christian churches ive been to support scientific research.. even stem cell. I think you have been spending too much time reading about extremists and quakers.


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## Kaendar (Jun 29, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Callling the KKK filet mignon is in questionable taste, but hey. cn


Please.. you know what I meant.


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## cannabineer (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> Please.. you know what I meant.


I sometimes fail to resist a truly tempting straight line. cn


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## Kaendar (Jun 29, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> I sometimes fail to resist a truly tempting straight line. cn


fair enough


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## Heisenberg (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> September 11? I thought there was a seperation of church and state.. and aids in Africa? My church's youth group went on a mission to West Africa to help AIDs and malaria victims. And all non denominational christian churches ive been to support scientific research.. even stem cell. I think you have been spending too much time reading about extremists and quakers.


I am sure at the time some Christians were appalled at the witch trials, that is beside the point. 

You still aren't seeing the point of my criticism. In each of the cases I listed the problem can be distilled down to failure to properly question and honestly review their beliefs. Your church people do the things they do because they are good people, not because it is god's command, though I am sure they feel more righteous in thinking so. If they were really interested in carrying out god's commands, they would be willing to sacrifice their children when god gives the word, they would be okay with slaves, and okay with loving Jesus above family members, for this is the morality outlined in the bible. The reason they pick and choose the good commands, or morals, is because they are good people. These are not people who would rather not help anyone, but do so anyway out of strict adherence to scripture. 

The good that comes from religion is non-proprietary and not due to dogma, yet the potential harm is demonstrably unique.


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## Kaendar (Jun 29, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> I am sure at the time some Christians were appalled at the witch trials, that is beside the point.
> 
> You still aren't seeing the point of my criticism. In each of the cases I listed the problem can be distilled down to failure to properly question and honestly review their beliefs. Your church people do the things they do because they are good people, not because it is god's command, though I am sure they feel more righteous in thinking so. If they were really interested in carrying out god's commands, they would be willing to sacrifice their children when god gives the word, they would be okay with slaves, and okay with loving Jesus above family members, for this is the morality outlined in the bible. The reason they pick and choose the good commands, or morals, is because they are good people. These are not people who would rather not help anyone, but do so anyway out of strict adherence to scripture.
> 
> The good that comes from religion is non-proprietary and not due to dogma, yet the potential harm is demonstrably unique.


Well I think you focus too much on the potential harm rather than the good that is done around the world everyday.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> Well I think you focus too much on the potential harm rather than the good that is done around the world everyday.


It's not at all worth it, not even close.


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## Kaendar (Jun 29, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> It's not at all worth it, not even close.


But Christians as a whole arent going around crusading and burning alive alleged witches.. you guys are very focused on past events and you dont acknowledge the fact that most churches today acknowledge science.


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## Cut.Throat. (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> But Christians as a whole arent going around crusading and burning alive alleged witches.. you guys are very focused on past events and you dont acknowledge the fact that most churches today acknowledge science.


If they acknowledged science they wouldn't believe in god.


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## cannabineer (Jun 29, 2012)

Cut.Throat. said:


> If they acknowledged science they wouldn't believe in god.


That need not be true, CT. cn


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## Cut.Throat. (Jun 29, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> That need not be true, CT. cn


True. But there's more evidence that there isn't a god then there is.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> But Christians as a whole arent going around crusading and burning alive alleged witches.. you guys are very focused on past events and you dont acknowledge the fact that most churches today acknowledge science.


Most churches today acknowledge science only when they have to and a lot of people around the world suffer because of that.


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## cannabineer (Jun 29, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> But Christians as a whole arent going around crusading and burning alive alleged witches.. you guys are very focused on past events and you dont acknowledge the fact that most churches today acknowledge science.


Kaendar, I suggest you read up on the denominations/congregations that believe in Biblical inerrancy. The strictures that they embrace and vigorously seek to propagate are a bit scary imo. It is those that prompted my jeremiad earlier. 
<c_eterum censeo_> Inerrancy is really the only integral approach to Biblical Christianity. Once you introduce loopholes, like believing that the Bible is a blend of literal and metaphoric bits, you're in a continuum that can only lead to either complete rejection ... or benign neglect of the inconsistencies. Ime most self-confessed Christians choose the latter. cn


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## Doer (Jun 30, 2012)

To some the inconsistancies are explained with the most fundamental view that is. God can do anything. God put all the rock layers there 8000 years ago to make it look like epochs of deposits. Why? Because he can.

Ok, that's silly and cultish and dangerous. But, most will just accept the old strories are just that. About days of wonder that can't be explained.

And maybe, a lot of it never happened, so what? Christians, in the main stream, these day, really just want the GOOD and the fellowship.

A way to bring up family. Western religion is 90% secular, and only 10% Crazy. Some scpetics might be suggest we see it the other way around.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jun 30, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> This isn't a bait thread, don't assume everything.
> 
> That's an honest question, and I'm trying to make a point. Beliefs shouldn't be respected just because somebody believes them. Do you agree, or disagree with that?
> 
> ...


Amazingly well written, and an extremely good question. I look forward to hearing a reply. 

Scrotie Mcboogerballs... you need to write something so i can plus rep you for having such a funny ass name! lol!


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## Shannon Alexander (Jun 30, 2012)

Cut.Throat. said:


> True. But there's more evidence that there isn't a god then there is.


A lack of evidence is not evidence for a lack of a god...


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## cannabineer (Jun 30, 2012)

Shannon Alexander said:


> A lack of evidence is not evidence for a lack of a god...


It is, actually, if incomplete. It's suggestive but does not allow a conclusion. cn


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 30, 2012)

Shannon Alexander said:


> A lack of evidence is not evidence for a lack of a god...


It's not a lack of evidence. The existing evidence is in direct opposition to the idea of a god. 

Every time something new is found which God was responsible for previously, the goal posts are moved and usually, what's found is rejected until the church is forced to accept it.


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## eye exaggerate (Jun 30, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> It's not a lack of evidence. The existing evidence is in direct opposition to the idea of a god.
> 
> Every time something new is found which God was responsible for previously, the goal posts are moved and usually, what's found is rejected until the church is forced to accept it.


...seems a little biased towards scientism at the same time. Neither is better, imho. Some of the tools in the non-believers belt were initiated by church-going scientists. I can list them if you'd like, though I have a couple of times here - as recently as a few days ago.


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## eye exaggerate (Jun 30, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> It is, actually, if incomplete. It's suggestive but does not allow a conclusion. cn


...seems about right "...and always will be"


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 30, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...seems a little biased towards scientism at the same time. Neither is better, imho. Some of the tools in the non-believers belt were initiated by church-going scientists. I can list them if you'd like, though I have a couple of times here - as recently as a few days ago.


What is 'scientism'? 

No need if you can direct me to the post # so I understand the context clearly


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## cannabineer (Jun 30, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...seems about right "...and always will be"


Unless (or, I hope, until) we experience a phase transition in the way we "consh", I fear you're spot-on. cn


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## Heisenberg (Jun 30, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> Well I think you focus too much on the potential harm rather than the good that is done around the world everyday.



Having people honestly review their beliefs and admit when answers are pretend will not hinder their good will, they will still do good things.



With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But *for good people to do evil things*, that takes religion. -Steven Weinberg,


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## eye exaggerate (Jun 30, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> What is 'scientism'?
> 
> No need if you can direct me to the post # so I understand the context clearly


...I'll look for the post number in a bit, Pad. For now, here's a wiki clip of scientism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism


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## Shannon Alexander (Jul 1, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> It's not a lack of evidence. The existing evidence is in direct opposition to the idea of a god.
> 
> Every time something new is found which God was responsible for previously, the goal posts are moved and usually, what's found is rejected until the church is forced to accept it.



Sorry, I should have stated my position a little clearer as you seem stuck on the idea of God as pertaining to the Christian religion etc... and not just the Idea of a god...


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## Zaehet Strife (Jul 1, 2012)

I always liked this quote.


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## cannabineer (Jul 1, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I always liked this quote.
> 
> View attachment 2235619


I would disagree. 
Cussing someone out is fruitless and inelegant, rather like a cheap Continental breakfast. 
But saying "I am offended" in its place can have real value ... if your interlocutor meant no offense, it grants both parties an easy means of resolution without loss of face. It effectively says "I am extending a path of negotiation to you, should you choose/happen to be good enough to use it". Jmo. cn


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## Doer (Jul 1, 2012)

I don't know. I think there has been an instititional attempt to force us to believe that "words matter." It is billions in business.

I was raised, on the idea that physical things can hurt me, but not words. Words may seem offensive but they cannot be.

It is much better, imo, to ask, "Are you intending to be offensive?" That will clear it up and everyone can have more face. And it will show you are containing your gut reaction for the moment to seek clarity and to put the fellow more gently on notice.

My gut reaction to "I'm offended." is "so what?" Of couse, I'm much more beer bottle than champange.


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## cannabineer (Jul 1, 2012)

Doer said:


> I don't know. I think there has been an institution attempt to force of to believe that "words matter." If was raise, on the idea that physical things can hurt me, but not words. Words may seem offensive but they cannot be.
> 
> It is much better to asked, "Are you intending to be offensive?" That will clear it up and everyone can have more face. And it will show you are
> containing your gut reaction for the moment to seek clarity and to put the fellow more gently on notice.
> ...


Me otoh ... I live and breathe words. I completely embrace the idea that they matter, that they can be the hinge of things, and that there are forms that are better than others. If I were to receive "so what?" as an answer to "I am offended", I would at once recognize someone who has just very probably declared contempt beyond renegotiation. It's a naked "fuck you, nobody". I believe that an appreciation of nuance transcends traditional class boundaries ... to define true class. I peremptorily reject "street" manners. Jmo. cn


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## Doer (Jul 1, 2012)

Well, as I said, no one can accuse me of class, crass maybe. But, I do try to keep the gut reaction silent and use the form of the question I suggested.


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## cannabineer (Jul 1, 2012)

Well shit, son. Then we'll git along famously.  cn


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## Doer (Jul 1, 2012)

And we do. We both prefer rancourless discussion, I hope.

So, let's explore. And let us say, for the sake of discussion, that we are not talking about the patent, obvious intent to offend. And we are casual strangers.

When someone announces, "I'm offended." Are they not offering up the first attack? Doesn't that tone put me on defensiveness? 

You are abruptly stating that you have been wronged and suggesting you require apology as a social form before proceeding. How am I to know what you find offensive? And as a gut reaction, I take offense that you assume that.

We both, being offended, in another age, it would be, choose seconds and meet at dawn. The "sticks and stones" arguement is what really and finally ended sactioned dueling, as i see it. Oh sure rules were made to not decimate the ranks of malehood. But, society finally changed.

I am too serious, OK. So what? I just wonder about these turns in history and how it is coming back to allow "offended" in the purely self-defined way. And, if I may be ulta-serious, teachers, etc, are being killed because of the return.


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## thagooroo (Jul 1, 2012)

You put it perfectly and if anything we should practice being understanding that everyone has different beliefs based on what they have seen, heard and been taught/learned I personally learn a lot from all on this site and all my thoughts are views change with life experiences and constant learning I think religion retards learning


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## Doer (Jul 1, 2012)

It may. But, in the East it it is said, in the end we must pass thru Guru to have our own enlightenment. By learning in religion and then exploring the truth for myself has lead me to accelerated understanding. Al least... I have no complaints on that score.


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## Cut.Throat. (Jul 1, 2012)

Doer said:


> It may. But, in the East it it is said, in the end we must pass thru Guru to have our own enlightenment. By learning in religion and then exploring the truth for myself has lead me to accelerated understanding. Al least... I have no complaints on that score.


999! Make your next post count.


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## WyoGrow (Jul 1, 2012)

There is no requirement for you to respect my "beliefs". But so long as my beliefs do not interfere with your life and your beliefs then what is the issue??? You can choose to be offended by them all you want... but if they don't actually affect you then I can't see an issue. What I feel needs to be respected is that if my beliefs fit the criteria I mentioned and you attempt to interfere in my life asserting your beliefs over mine you'd be well served to not be surprised by the impending foot about to be wedge in your ass.


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## Doer (Jul 1, 2012)

Cut.Throat. said:


> 999! Make your next post count.


Huh? Do over? Mulligan? Thanks.


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## cannabineer (Jul 1, 2012)

WyoGrow said:


> There is no requirement for you to respect my "beliefs". But so long as my beliefs do not interfere with your life and your beliefs then what is the issue??? You can choose to be offended by them all you want... but if they don't actually affect you then I can't see an issue. What I feel needs to be respected is that if my beliefs fit the criteria I mentioned and you attempt to interfere in my life asserting your beliefs over mine you'd be well served to not be surprised by the impending foot about to be wedge in your ass.


Fast-moving feet are a traditional tool in philosophic discourse. Said Samuel Johnson of Bishop Berkeley's immaterialist concept: "I refute it this!" while kicking a stone unto detectable bejeezus deficiency. Toes of Honor. cn


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## cannabineer (Jul 1, 2012)

Doer said:


> And we do. We both prefer rancourless discussion, I hope.
> 
> So, let's explore. And let us say, for the sake of discussion, that we are not talking about the patent, obvious intent to offend. And we are casual strangers.
> 
> ...


If someone said to me "I'm offended", I would view it as a way to tell me that I might have overstepped a boundary. I see courtesy there, and would respond with respect ... perhaps asking what the point of offense was. If the offended party explains, we're on our way to reconciliation. Sometimes that requires ... conciliation. My opinion. 

I don't know what you mean by teachers being killed ... can you tell me who what where? cn


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## olylifter420 (Jul 1, 2012)

follow whatever the hell you want...


it seems you have a major issue with individuals right to practice their religion or beliefs...

Get over it man...There is no point in what you are trying to do on the internet...

Go out and make a MOVEMENT of some sorts in REAL LIFE rather then spew your bigotry on the web where no one can sock you in the face for it...


That is an unbiased opinion... thats all...




Padawanbater2 said:


> If I believe your beliefs, when practiced in the real world, are dangerous?


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 1, 2012)

olylifter420 said:


> it seems you have a major issue with individuals right to practice their religion or beliefs...


When their religion or beliefs hurt people, yeah. You do too, you're just too stubborn to admit it.



olylifter420 said:


> Get over it man...There is no point in what you are trying to do on the internet...


It wouldn't bother people like you so much if what I was doing wasn't accomplishing anything.



olylifter420 said:


> Go out and make a MOVEMENT of some sorts in REAL LIFE rather then spew your bigotry on the web where no one can sock you in the face for it...


Words upset you to the point of violence. That says plenty about you and the confidence you have in your beliefs. 

When all else fails, pull the bigot card. Just like all the other ignoramuses around here who spout off the first personal attack that comes to their mind when they lose control of their emotions, quote it or STFU.


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## Doer (Jul 1, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> If someone said to me "I'm offended", I would view it as a way to tell me that I might have overstepped a boundary. I see courtesy there, and would respond with respect ... perhaps asking what the point of offense was. If the offended party explains, we're on our way to reconciliation. Sometimes that requires ... conciliation. My opinion.
> 
> I don't know what you mean by teachers being killed ... can you tell me who what where? cn


Well, to get closer to the point, I have family members in the teacher business. We recently had a long discussion about the concept of safety for teachers and other public employees. And I don't think we have to list these events that are accelerating in schools and elsewhere, even in the home. It's not guns, really, it is the warpped concept of gangland respect. This concept fits certain political agendas.

OK, so in polite society we have PC smoozed our way around this shift in ethics. Words matter. Fine. Perhaps there is trauma, at a young age with words alone. I get that. But, now we see, below the edge of polite society a gang culture emerging as consequence. And teachers live in fear they don't offend the little monsters. We have unintentionally created the very mob we fear. This more clear?


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## Ringsixty (Jul 1, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> If I believe your beliefs, when practiced in the real world, are dangerous?


I don't give a shit if you believe what I believe...... I don't believe what you believe......So the answer is.._*NO*_ LOL


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## olylifter420 (Jul 1, 2012)

Not really dude, since being on here and off, i learned we take all this shit too serious. So i said fuck it... I just do not think about this stuff anymore. All it does is make people fight.

Your perception of me has not changed, you obviously are the bigot here.

I am not bothered by this, i got real world issues to take care of.

Thanks for the discussion though.





Padawanbater2 said:


> When their religion or beliefs hurt people, yeah. You do too, you're just too stubborn to admit it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jul 2, 2012)

olylifter420 said:


> follow whatever the hell you want...
> 
> 
> it seems you have a major issue with individuals right to practice their religion or beliefs...
> ...


True that. Its sad that he thinks hes accomplishing something.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 2, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> True that. Its sad that he thinks hes accomplishing something.


That's the only reason it bothers people like you and every post proves it.


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## Heisenberg (Jul 2, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> True that. Its sad that he thinks hes accomplishing something.


Even if the only thing he is accomplishing is sorting out his own view of the world, he is accomplishing more than anyone I see telling him to be quiet. What I see is pad listening to other views and asking questions. Question which BTW, should have easy answers. Beyond that I see him showing the same imperfections that we all share.

What I don't hear is Pad bellyaching about others views, acting indignant when people ask him questions, or telling anyone they should be quiet.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jul 2, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> That's the only reason it bothers people like you and every post proves it.


Your imaginary accomplishments bother me? Here I thought I was the one with irrational belief


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 2, 2012)

Clearly_. _........


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## Doer (Jul 3, 2012)

To me the Tower of Babel concept is simple. We just accuse everyone else of not understanding us. Attempts to understand are met with dogma and harsh language. Babel. 

Then it morphs. We don't want understanding after all. We want agreement. We demand that we be acknowledged for our power to sway the tide. We have to WIN. Stupidly down the slippery slope.

"In a family argument, if it turns out you are right -- apologize at once!" Robert A. Heinlein

I'm sorry, ya'll.


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## cannabineer (Jul 3, 2012)

I don't understand. But i agree. cn


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## Doer (Jul 3, 2012)

Well, at least you understand me.


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## Toorop (Jul 4, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> Exceptions to the rule: Satanism, or any type of pagan worship that can endanger others health, any type of racist teachings, and also any cult (ya know, the lets all kill ourselves type, not Jehovahs witness or Scientology types).


What is wrong with Satanism?


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 4, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> Exceptions to the rule: Satanism, or any type of pagan worship that can endanger others health, any type of racist teachings, and also any cult (ya know, the lets all kill ourselves type, not Jehovahs witness or Scientology types).


 pagan worship? seriously???? satanism??? satanism is basically a fake religion dude lol, i read the satanic bible at 10 years old, all it really tells you is to follow your carnal desires and think for yourself... basically my belief system already, makes more sense than any other religion in that you could be a satanist and an atheist. do some reading up. i'm still curious why paganism is harmful in your opinion.


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## tyler.durden (Jul 4, 2012)

^^ LOL! Anton LaVey...


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## cannabineer (Jul 4, 2012)

Toorop said:


> What is wrong with Satanism?


It's such a half-step. Satanism is essentially an adolescent rebellion against Abrahamic religion, but without rejecting the most important part: the forms and premises. It's not an adult's choice. My opinion. cn


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## Shannon Alexander (Jul 4, 2012)

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> why paganism is harmful in your opinion.



I know that several pagan cults commit acts of Beastiality... That might be what he is against...


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## cannabineer (Jul 4, 2012)

But they also sacrifice goats. So maybe bestiality is the lost sacrament ... and we're denied our spiritual evolution until we embrace our outer animal ... cn


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## Shannon Alexander (Jul 4, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> But they also sacrifice goats. So maybe bestiality is the lost sacrament ... and we're denied our spiritual evolution until we embrace our outer animal ... cn


The sacrificing comes last on the list of what they do to the goats...

And for those particular pagan cultists that know what I'm talking about... Shame..! on..! you..!


I was just a little kid...


Just a little kid...


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## cannabineer (Jul 4, 2012)

Oh my. I did not mean to get your goat, Shannon.

~quietly replaces goat~

cn


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## Zaehet Strife (Jul 5, 2012)

olylifter420 said:


> I just do not think about this stuff anymore.


Always taking the "easy way out" 

Keep those ears plugged and those eyes closed, the critical thinkers are here.


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## Kaendar (Jul 7, 2012)

Satanism and forms of paganism are putting ppl and animals in direct harm.. part of the worship process is killing shit and casting spells on ppl to cause harm.. ive seen it done and seen it work. Voodoo spells are no joke.. not to mention your worshipping the devil.. whats not wrong about that?


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## Heisenberg (Jul 7, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> Satanism and forms of paganism are putting ppl and animals in direct harm.. part of the worship process is killing shit and casting spells on ppl to cause harm.. ive seen it done and seen it work. Voodoo spells are no joke.. not to mention your worshipping the devil.. whats not wrong about that?


Christianity does not oppose human sacrifice. It simply celebrates a single sacrifice as if it were effective for all of us. Jesus was called the Lamb of god, that's because lambs used to get a raw deal.

Many prayers look a lot like spell casting to me. They use trinkets, chant words, make specific hand gestures, and attempt to influence luck via supernatural will.


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## Dr Kynes (Jul 7, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> Exceptions to the rule: Satanism, or any type of pagan worship that can endanger others health, any type of racist teachings, and also any cult (ya know, the lets all kill ourselves type, not Jehovahs witness or Scientology types).


so only "pagan" (kaendar doesnt know what the word means) beliefs can be dangerous? only "pagan" beliefs can lead to suicide, and only "pagan" beliefs can be racists? wow youre a fucking genius. 

speaking as a "pagan" and a non-believer of your particular brand of bullshit, i declare YOUR shit to be dangerous. 

mohammedan beliefs endanger the health of others (female circumcision anyone)
mohammedan beliefs are facist ("you will fight the jews until the last jew hides behind a stone, and th4e stone shall cry out, Oh Abdullah! there is a jew hiding behind me, come and kill him")
mohammedanism is a cult (a singular "charismatic" leader who directs his follower's daily lives with threats of violence for the apostate)
mohammedans kill themselves with a shocking regularity as part of their bomb vest sacrament. 

welcome to the real world. awrannites, wiccans, hindus, buddhists, zoroastrians, animists, ancestor worshippers, polytheists, and all the other "pagan" beleifs you so readily condemn are far less damaging to the world and it's people than your brand of fuck-nuttery. 

lets ban mohammedanism for the good of the planet.


----------



## Heisenberg (Jul 7, 2012)

&#8220;I know of no society in human history that ever suffered because its people became too desirous of evidence in support of their core beliefs.&#8221; 
&#8213; Sam Harris


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## Zaehet Strife (Jul 7, 2012)

I like that Heis.


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## cannabineer (Jul 7, 2012)

What an offensive post. Harumph. cn


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## Doer (Jul 8, 2012)

Well 6' 4" and is Director of a Footballer club. You would think his was part of polite society. Of, course, like me, he only feels that way. Doesn't say so, outloud, I suppose. So, in both cases, it does seems like a whine to get too ruffed, either way. IAC, it's just sex, ah, I mean conversation.


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## 420IAMthatIAM (Jul 8, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I'm sure there's truth to every single religion, even Scientology.
> 
> But just because something has an element of truth to it doesn't mean it's true, right?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMjGzQ93XO4 thats right it does not make that religion the truth or the way...


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## Kaendar (Jul 8, 2012)

Dr Kynes said:


> so only "pagan" (kaendar doesnt know what the word means) beliefs can be dangerous? only "pagan" beliefs can lead to suicide, and only "pagan" beliefs can be racists? wow youre a fucking genius.
> 
> speaking as a "pagan" and a non-believer of your particular brand of bullshit, i declare YOUR shit to be dangerous.
> 
> ...


Yes pagan, as in the lets kidnap the neigbors cat and boil him in the woods type of pagan.. fucking slaughtering animals and shit in the woods like savages.. Idk what the fuck you are talking about in the rest of the post.. mohammedan? Im not a muslim dude, get your shit straight.


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## cannabineer (Jul 8, 2012)

http://www.examiner.com/article/do-neo-pagans-practice-blood-sacrifice


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## Shannon Alexander (Jul 8, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> Yes pagan, as in the lets kidnap the neigbors cat and boil him in the woods type of pagan.. fucking slaughtering animals and shit in the woods like savages.. Idk what the fuck you are talking about in the rest of the post.. mohammedan? Im not a muslim dude, get your shit straight.


You mean the bible has no sacrificing of animals..? Get fucked Kaendar...


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## Shannon Alexander (Jul 8, 2012)

I'm fairly sure I know more made up shit than you Zaehet Strife... maybe...


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## Dr Kynes (Jul 8, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> Yes pagan, as in the lets kidnap the neigbors cat and boil him in the woods type of pagan.. fucking slaughtering animals and shit in the woods like savages.. Idk what the fuck you are talking about in the rest of the post.. mohammedan? Im not a muslim dude, get your shit straight.


the word pagan specifically refers to those who choose to reject your false monotheism. if your religion doesnt have abraham as the progenitor then you are pagan. that puts MOST OF THE WORLD as pagans.

your specious claims about kidnappings, animal tortures, animal sacrifices etc.. are a smokescreen to hide what you find most offensive about every religion that doesnt worship your fake diety is the rejection of the fake diety itself. whether you claim jehovah yaweh jesus or mohammed is your supernatural pimp, i dont care, you strut preen and preach against the ills of everyone who dares disagree like a true abrahamic douche, and your pissing and moaning about christians is not a trait found in either chritians or jews. thus, by process of elimination, you are a mohammedan. 

buddhists, zoroastrians, taoists, confucians, animists, awrannites, astrau, ancestor worshipers, jains, hindus, atheists, agnostics, aboriginal religions, scientists, and pretty much everybody who doesnt embrace the torah, koran or bible is automatically a baby stealing kitty murdering savage who delights in the suffering of animals. how very multicultural of you. thats about what i expect from a fan of tookie williams.


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## Doer (Jul 8, 2012)

We just have to ask ourselves...what would Jeffery Damler do?


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## cannabineer (Jul 8, 2012)




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## Dr Kynes (Jul 8, 2012)

Doer said:


> We just have to ask ourselves...what would Jeffery Damler do?


i prefer the philosophy of noted Australian dude Josef Fritzl, worlds greatest dad.


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## cannabineer (Jul 8, 2012)

Oh those wild&wacky Austrians. Two missed chances at world domination will breed a less-than-sporting outlook. cn


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 8, 2012)

Are you talking about the first two crocodile dundee movies?


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## cannabineer (Jul 8, 2012)

I was correcting the Dr.'s choice of hemisphere. cn


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## Dr Kynes (Jul 8, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> I was correcting the Dr.'s choice of hemisphere. cn


it's a well known fact that Josef Fritzl is from the land down under.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 8, 2012)

Oh that guy? Fuck that guy. What a creepy bastard he is.


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## Dr Kynes (Jul 8, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Oh that guy? Fuck that guy. What a creepy bastard he is.


no, thats phil garrido!


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## cannabineer (Jul 8, 2012)

Dr Kynes said:


> it's a well known fact that Josef Fritzl is from the land down under.
> 
> View attachment 2246280


Gevalt! cn


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## Dr Kynes (Jul 8, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Gevalt! cn


you mean "Crikey!"


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## cannabineer (Jul 8, 2012)

Dr Kynes said:


> you mean "Crikey!"


If you look up Joe Fritzl, you'll find that Amstetten is in Niederösterreich. cn


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## Shannon Alexander (Jul 9, 2012)

Please don't say that, that particular arsehole is one of my countrymen... Australia already has enough of it's own horrible people...


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## Dr Kynes (Jul 9, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> If you look up Joe Fritzl, you'll find that Amstetten is in Niederösterreich. cn


shhhhh! australians get butthurt if you try to steal their national heroes... like yahoo serious.


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## Kaendar (Jul 9, 2012)

Dr Kynes said:


> the word pagan specifically refers to those who choose to reject your false monotheism. if your religion doesnt have abraham as the progenitor then you are pagan. that puts MOST OF THE WORLD as pagans.
> 
> your specious claims about kidnappings, animal tortures, animal sacrifices etc.. are a smokescreen to hide what you find most offensive about every religion that doesnt worship your fake diety is the rejection of the fake diety itself. whether you claim jehovah yaweh jesus or mohammed is your supernatural pimp, i dont care, you strut preen and preach against the ills of everyone who dares disagree like a true abrahamic douche, and your pissing and moaning about christians is not a trait found in either chritians or jews. thus, by process of elimination, you are a mohammedan.
> 
> buddhists, zoroastrians, taoists, confucians, animists, awrannites, astrau, ancestor worshipers, jains, hindus, atheists, agnostics, aboriginal religions, scientists, and pretty much everybody who doesnt embrace the torah, koran or bible is automatically a baby stealing kitty murdering savage who delights in the suffering of animals. how very multicultural of you. thats about what i expect from a fan of tookie williams.


Your an idiot. Pagan, to me at least, are people that worship nature.. wiccans, satanists, voodoo worshippers, etc. I know other religions are technically pagan, but thats their perogative. I can respect most religions in the world.. especially buddhists, toaists, and Zoroastrians.. Stop using your ignorant western white mans word "Mohammedan". Its ignorant and certainly doesnt apply to me. Muhammad was a man like me or you. He had no divine powers or anything. Im not muslim so I dont even follow any of his teachings..


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## Dr Kynes (Jul 9, 2012)

Kaendar said:


> Your an idiot. Pagan, to me at least, are people that worship nature.. wiccans, satanists, voodoo worshippers, etc. I know other religions are technically pagan, but thats their perogative. I can respect most religions in the world.. especially buddhists, toaists, and Zoroastrians.. Stop using your ignorant western white mans word "Mohammedan". Its ignorant and certainly doesnt apply to me. Muhammad was a man like me or you. He had no divine powers or anything. Im not muslim so I dont even follow any of his teachings..


an idiot makes indefensible statements and outright lies defaming almost half the world's population based on your own personal bigotry against anyone who doesnt read the koran bible or torah.

an idiot would be unaware that the "big 3 monotheist religions" represent only a small portion of the world's people

an idiot would not understand that the "monotheism" of abrahamic religious cults is only thinly veiled polytheism, which is why they have satan, iblis, angels deivls demons djinns and all manner of sub-dieties. even judaism has a huge supply of named supernatural entities who work for their own purposes using supernatural powers despite the insistence that there is only one "god" 

an idiot would spend his breath trying to take back his statements defaming certain religious groups he didnt realize he had lumped in among the unacceptable "pagan" religions with his hamfisted sophomoric comments.

an idiot would be unaware that voodoo is a blend of roman catholic liturgy and religious ritual with primitive african ritual magic, and has more in common with christianity than it does wicked "paganism"

an idiot would simply assume that "satanism" is a religion at all. rather than reading their "scriptures" to discover that it is emo teen angst and an excuse to claim "religious persecution" when they see christian symbols anywhere in public

an idiot would believe the scary shit and evil dark magic he saw on a tv show has anything to do with wicca (psst... Charmed is not a documentary series)

an idiot would assume that "nature worship" is distinguishable from secular ecological fanaticism 

an idiot would assume those of us who do not indulge in the conceit of monotheism give two squirts of piss for your "respect" for any religion.

an idiot would assume that the term mohammedan is insulting. it describes the followers of mohammed, just like christian buddhist confucian zoroastrioan and rastafarian all name the prophet and spiritual leader of their movement in their name. mohammedans want everyone to uuse their chosen names (and theres LOTS) which in their language means variously things like peace, (islam) moslem/muslim (servant of god) and other such twaddle. mormons want everybody to call them "latter day saints", should we all grab ankles and let those dinks tell us how to speak too? mohammedan is a word in english which has been used historically and accurately to describe the followers of mohammed. if this offends you too bad. remeber in mohammedanism i am an "infidel' (oathbreaker) which is one of the worst things that you can call a paddy, or alternately a kafir which in swahili (the slave trade language of east africa which is based on the language of the slavers ie: mohammedans) means person who should be a slave, or subservient. mohammedans make lots of claims about what they SAY the word means and where it came from but in hebrew (which is a language with lots of common root words and grammar with arabic) it means apostate or, in modern parlance, oathbreaker. isnt that convenient.. 

mohammed was not a man like me, he was a caravan bandit who invented a religion by mixing christianity and judaism in a pot with his local polytheistic aboriginal beliefs and declared himself a prophet. mohammed is a man more like L Ron Hubbard.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jul 9, 2012)

Sadly enough,far to many of those that would label people with different beliefs outside of their own pagans such as christians,muslims etc, have the strongest tendencies of misunderstanding the natural world for what it is and an ignorant regard for the natural laws that govern each and everyone of us,because they believe as though they are privelaged and apart of something everyone else is not nor could ever be as though they were of better belief from the start somehow.This seperatism is a detriment to any real understanding to be gained about the nature of life and death.Very few people of those religions actualy get it,that God is not real,and that you are the maker of your own fate and or destiny.


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## Dr Kynes (Jul 9, 2012)

Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> Sadly enough,far to many of those that would label people with different beliefs outside of their own pagans such as christians,muslims etc, have the strongest tendencies of misunderstanding the natural world for what it is and an ignorant regard for the natural laws that govern each and everyone of us,because they believe as though they are privelaged and apart of something everyone else is not nor could ever be as though they were of better belief from the start somehow.This seperatism is a detriment to any real understanding to be gained about the nature of life and death.Very few people of those religions actualy get it,that God is not real,and that you are the maker of your own fate and or destiny.


it is one of the prime failings of "monotheism" in the form of abrahamic bullshit, that in order for THEM to be right, everybody else has to be absolutely wrong, despite numerous incidents in their own "perfect texts" that show other supernatural forces in competition with their "supreme" god-thing. if he were so supreme how could anyone compete?


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## cannabineer (Jul 9, 2012)

Dr Kynes said:


> an idiot makes indefensible statements and outright lies defaming almost half the world's population based on your own personal bigotry against anyone who doesnt read the koran bible or torah.
> 
> an idiot would be unaware that the "big 3 monotheist religions" represent only a small portion of the world's people
> 
> ...


I cannot +rep this, but i must say, as rants go, it is of epic proportion. It's an elegant jeremiad.
I have a wistful part of me however that would see it as doubly epic if it were presented in iambic pentameter. cn


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## Dr Kynes (Jul 10, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> I cannot +rep this, but i must say, as rants go, it is of epic proportion. It's an elegant jeremiad.
> I have a wistful part of me however that would see it as doubly epic if it were presented in iambic pentameter. cn


My rants may displease
their symmetry imperfect
but i choose their forms.


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## Doer (Jul 10, 2012)

Dr Kynes said:


> mohammed was not a man like me, he was a caravan bandit who invented a religion by mixing christianity and judaism in a pot with his local polytheistic aboriginal beliefs and declared himself a prophet. mohammed is a man more like L Ron Hubbard.


Maybe more a man that L. Ron ever was? He ran a total end run around Rome through N. Africa. And then Mormon is a straight up copy of Islam. Subsitute Maroni for the Angel David. The book of Maroni blasts the Jews and the Gentiles alike. And they live among us.


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## olylifter420 (Jul 10, 2012)

critical thinkers? LOL... man you just so high off your enlightened ass...

keep it up you bigot...

I just hope one day, you all see yourselves for what you really are, just a big bigot who loves bigotry so much they bigot all the people who they felt were smarter then them...

thats cool man... have fun in your wacky world... LOL...





Zaehet Strife said:


> Always taking the "easy way out"
> 
> Keep those ears plugged and those eyes closed, the critical thinkers are here.


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## missnu (Jul 10, 2012)

Well as a thinking person I need nobody to accept my beliefs...why not you worry with yours while I worry with mine, and then everyone will be happier...
Better question, why do people feel that others have to share their beliefs?


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## olylifter420 (Jul 10, 2012)

why can you not see what you just said applies to what I am doing as well? Are you taking sides heis? I thought you were the source of unbiased opinion? 

You see, just as it bothers atheists about how people have religion, it bothers me that atheists just cant seem to accept people are different. Everyone is not alike and for someone who claims they are fair and have an unbiased thought to continue making a moot point on the web, is hypocrisy. why cant you all live up to the "high standards" you all live by? righteous and prosper for the good of the people you all say. attacking peoples beliefs just because they are different then yours does not make you some holy saint... oh wait, you all are atheists... 

I just think most of the atheists on here are huge bigots and they will continue to deny the fact that they are, when everyone else can see the flaws that make them insecure.





Heisenberg said:


> Even if the only thing he is accomplishing is sorting out his own view of the world, he is accomplishing more than anyone I see telling him to be quiet. What I see is pad listening to other views and asking questions. Question which BTW, should have easy answers. Beyond that I see him showing the same imperfections that we all share.
> 
> What I don't hear is Pad bellyaching about others views, acting indignant when people ask him questions, or telling anyone they should be quiet.


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## missnu (Jul 10, 2012)

Well believers feel that atheists must believe, because they personally believe so feel everyone else should, and atheists don't think people should believe for much the same reason in reverse...
I don't give a happy shit whatever anyone else believes


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## olylifter420 (Jul 10, 2012)

exactly my point man or girl.... who gives a fuck what you or I believe. if we differ, does that make one of us better or worse? No... 

I just see atheists for the bigots they are... They want to accuse me of shit that I have never done in my life just cause my beliefs are different then their own... fucking bigots...





missnu said:


> Well believers feel that atheists must believe, because they personally believe so feel everyone else should, and atheists don't think people should believe for much the same reason in reverse...
> I don't give a happy shit whatever anyone else believes


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## RawBudzski (Jul 10, 2012)

Jebus is fictional & Obama is our Lord & Savior.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jul 10, 2012)

olylifter420 said:


> exactly my point man or girl.... who gives a fuck what you or I believe. if we differ, does that make one of us better or worse? No...
> 
> I just see atheists for the bigots they are... They want to accuse me of shit that I have never done in my life just cause my beliefs are different then their own... fucking bigots...


I for one have never accused you of anything and I dont believe in God.I think you are right,that it dosent matter what you or I believe in it dosent make anyone the better in the end.I understand that you and Strife have gone round for round in the forums and he has you pissed apparently,I mean just looking at youre posts here it is indicative of your current mood towards atheists is all im saying,your qualms seem to be with him,as they should be settled between you and him.But dont go calling all of us bigots,that simply is not the true.That is actualy a rather pre-judgemental statement on your part, of all who do not share the same belief about God as you do.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 10, 2012)

olylifter420 said:


> You see, just as it bothers atheists about how people have religion, it bothers me that atheists just cant seem to accept people are different.


I think you might be failing to realize the distinction. 

Having a religion isn't what bothers athiests, it's everything else that comes along with having a religion for a lot of people, the hatred, the blatant bigotry, sexism, etc. 

Atheists can accept people are different. But theists don't get special rights or get to have their beliefs shielded from criticism, especially if those beliefs are presented in a public forum, just because they believe it. 

Why should I respect your beliefs, Oly? What about them is respectable? 



olylifter420 said:


> attacking peoples beliefs just because they are different then yours does not make you some holy saint...


Again, you're mislabeling acceptable criticism for an attack, this is common among theists. If you feel threatened by something that's said about your beliefs, how strong could they be to begin with? Also, you can feel free not to post about them if you're not willing to accept criticism about them, it's all the same to everyone else.

The questions that make you uneasy about your beliefs are questions you should have asked yourself, and when somebody else reached the conclusion for you and pointed out the flaw in your logic, you don't stick with the same belief with flaws, you change the belief according to your current understanding of reality and how the rules of logic apply to it. 



olylifter420 said:


> I just think most of the atheists on here are huge bigots and they will continue to deny the fact that they are, when everyone else can see the flaws that make them insecure.


What 'flaws' would those be? Point them out, name some names.



olylifter420 said:


> who gives a fuck what you or I believe. if we differ, does that make one of us better or worse? No...


Differing in opinion isn't what makes religious belief worse. Again, I feel you're not getting it and almost all of your perceived hatred towards the non theists on the boards is completely self induced. You're pissed because you don't understand our point of view, each of us has tried to explain it to you a handful of times dating a ways back, and you still hold onto your own preconceived idea of 'ATHEIST'. 

When you get over yourself, and start acknowledging what is being said, not who is saying it, you might grow a little as a person and learn something. Till then, keep playing the victim.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jul 10, 2012)

I was hanging out with my five year old brother yesterday.. I started thinking that my past beliefs led me to believe that since he didn't have a religion, he would be sent to hell. WTF?? Stupid ass beliefs. I have lost all respect for most religions... Fuck..all religions.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 10, 2012)

I don't know enough about a lot of different religions, there might be some Native American or ancient Aztec religion that's buried in history that might be better, but even those would only be so much, whatever meaning someone might derive from them they could have derived in other ways, which, to me could really only mean one thing.. You find meaning within _yourself_. 

But all of the main major religions, absolutely, I agree with you. Those that like to twist our words around would probably have you believe that means we hate believers or something, which isn't the case at all in the same kind of way that you don't have to _be stupid_ to say something stupid...


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## olylifter420 (Jul 11, 2012)

So atheists calling or saying your beliefs are "dangerous" is not rather pre judgemental? 

Also, icould care less about striphe. I got better things to worry about then some internet mental case(straight out of the atheist book i learned on here) .

I respect your views and thoughts and have several atheist friends who are not douches and are accepting of otheres views and beliefs.

All this atheist hate is like those dumbass dance movies. Unnecessary.






Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> I for one have never accused you of anything and I dont believe in God.I think you are
> 
> 
> 
> right,that it dosent matter what you or I believe in it dosent make anyone the better in the end.I understand that you and Strife have gone round for round in the forums and he has you pissed apparently,I mean just looking at youre posts here it is indicative of your current mood towards atheists is all im saying,your qualms seem to be with him,as they should be settled between you and him.But dont go calling all of us bigots,that simply is not the true.That is actualy a rather pre-judgemental statement on your part, of all who do not share the same belief about God as you do.


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## olylifter420 (Jul 11, 2012)

I have learned. That you just cant get through to people who have the preconceived notion that believers are irrational and lack intelligence.

I have nothing against you or anyone else on here. I bet we would be buds if we knew each other. I know what atheists are and i thank you for thr explanations given to me a handful of times, i just dont buy into the whole, "we dont hate theists, just their beliefs and personal views on life matters.

One question, so saying your beliefs are "dangerous" without even knowing the person, all you know is that are a believer is not bigotry?


What about my religous beliefs have i tried to "indoctrinate" you with?


Who said anything about being attacked or being a victim? There you, go, using your preconceived notion that since i am a believer, i automatically play the hurt card? 





Padawanbater2 said:


> I think you might be failing to realize the distinction.
> 
> Having a religion isn't what bothers athiests, it's everything else that comes along with having a religion for a lot of people, the hatred, the blatant bigotry, sexism, etc.
> 
> ...


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## olylifter420 (Jul 11, 2012)

I think it is more of, what you made with your prior beliefs and how you interpreted them.


So since some atheists on here are always disagree with what i beleieve in, should lose all respect for all atheists?







Hepheastus420 said:


> I was hanging out with my five year old brother yesterday.. I started thinking that my past beliefs led me to believe that since he didn't have a religion, he would be sent to hell. WTF?? Stupid ass beliefs. I have lost all respect for most religions... Fuck..all religions.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jul 11, 2012)

olylifter420 said:


> I think it is more of, what you made with your prior beliefs and how you interpreted them.
> 
> 
> So since some atheists on here are always disagree with what i beleieve in, should lose all respect for all atheists?


You're right. I take back my dislike for all religions. I just dislike the book I followed.. And a few other religions I did research on. 

No, you shouldn't lose respect for all atheists since all atheists don't have anything in common that stems from atheism itself.. Well besides the obvious disbelief in a god or deity.


And whats up oly? Hope you're smoking some killer bud


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## 2xcharming (Jul 11, 2012)

I was raised Christian. Twenty years ago my son was born ten weeks early. He survived but is severely handicapped. I lost faith with God. There are monsterous people whom roam this earth perfectly healthy, while innocent childern are sticken with horrible diseases. It's just not right. I believe God is an asshole and just doesn't give a shit about us if he even existed at all. One of my old boss' said to me one day that he went to a sporting dinner where door prizes where being drawn. He said "God" has helped him get the prize he wants for the past three years. That God was really looking out for him. I told him, "Maybe that's why God can't help my son, He's too busy helping you win door prizes." I don't respect people who say stupid shit like he did. I don't beleive in fairytales anymore. You can believe in anything you want just keep it to your fucking self.


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## Doer (Jul 11, 2012)

Yeah, you first convience untold generations of this Mafia boss God. Powerful and capricius. And completely a-moral. We are supposed to pile all the good we can think of and hope for into the Boss. But does the Boss have standards? No, the Boss is Aribitrary and Irrational. Oh, but it''s not the Boss, how could it be? No, it's your pitiful lack of understanding and hell on you. Suddenly mysterious, when it was supposed to be so Loving.

And then the major Dup. Well, then which one is better for religion? I know we have to have to have but we do get a choice, right? Freedom of Choice. That sounds right! Free will....the cruel joke,,,,,or is it? We do have a middle choice they want us to forget.

Just say no to all of it. We don't have to believe or dis-believe anything. That is freedom. That is our lives built upon the rock of reality. Only Now is real. Is the Diety?

Even that is based on pure assumption. Fear not and ignore the entire question or not. Just don't be fooled.


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## Morgan Lynn (Jul 11, 2012)

You don't have to respect my beliefs because, well, I don't have any.


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## Shannon Alexander (Jul 11, 2012)

Doer said:


> Yeah, you first convience untold generations of this Mafia boss God. Powerful and capricius. And completely a-moral. We are supposed to pile all the good we can think of and hope for into the Boss. But does the Boss have standards? No, the Boss is Aribitrary and Irrational. Oh, but it''s not the Boss, how could it be? No, it's your pitiful lack of understanding and hell on you. Suddenly mysterious, when it was supposed to be so Loving.
> 
> And then the major Dup. Well, then which one is better for religion? I know we have to have to have but we do get a choice, right? Freedom of Choice. That sounds right! Free will....the cruel joke,,,,,or is it? We do have a middle choice they want us to forget.
> 
> ...


It's funny tho that in the bible god says he likes people that are either for or against him and it's the middle of the road people that he can't stand... It's somewhere in revelations...


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## Doer (Jul 11, 2012)

That's right, how convienent it is, not for the Boss, but for the Wise Guys. We in the west are subject to the tyranny of opinion. You are either for or against, so your neighbors can keep the list. When they decide to be the mob they know where to go.

And of course, the boss has never been seen, has never said a word. We have to assmume there is Deity. So, there is no "God says" There is very little, "What Jesus said..." There are mind control stories, that's it. Not even a shred of evidence this is anything more than an ancient protection racket. 

All the evidence, says it is.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jul 11, 2012)

Morgan Lynn said:


> You don't have to respect my beliefs because, well, I don't have any.


Do you believe abortion is good or bad? Don't answer.. just making a point .


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## cannabineer (Jul 11, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Do you believe abortion is good or bad? Don't answer.. just making a point .


I think it's awful, as is the alternative. cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Jul 11, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> I think it's awful, as is the alternative. cn


So you believe both options are awful? Correct me here neer (if needed), am I using the word "believe" in the right context here? It _is_ a belief.. Right? 

Brain fart.


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## cannabineer (Jul 11, 2012)

Well since it's my subjective opinion, "belief" is accurate imo. 

Yes, I think abortions are awful. I cannot imagine anybody looking forward to one, and while I don't countenance the term "murder" for one, it is the taking of life.
At the same time, the alternative - forbidding or punitively restricting access to abortion - is also awful, and imo marginally more so. cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Jul 11, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Well since it's my subjective opinion, "belief" is accurate imo.
> 
> Yes, I think abortions are awful. I cannot imagine anybody looking forward to one, and while I don't countenance the term "murder" for one, it is the taking of life.
> At the same time, the alternative - forbidding or punitively restricting access to abortion - is also awful, and imo marginally more so. cn


I believe your beliefs are the same as my beliefs on the subject.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 11, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Do you believe abortion is good or bad? Don't answer.. just making a point .


People have opinions about things, like abortion, but I think beliefs and opinions are different, in that a belief is something much more ingrained in ones own conviction, whereas opinions are subject to change more often.

I forget who said it (I can always remember bits and pieces of quotes, but hardly ever the person who said it..), possibly Harris or Hitchens, (paraphrasing..) _beliefs are much more dangerous than opinions because they're harder to change_.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 11, 2012)

Try telling a theist "jesus is just your _opinion_"... lol


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## Doer (Jul 11, 2012)

It can't be "Just" anything else, can it? So, forgive any joking here, but, I did come to realize that Santa Claus, does exist, but, isn't "real."

It's a fine distinction, because we can't really say what is Real, since we only experience modulated energy reflections. Our outer senses.
We turn that into "real." The Metaphor for the day.

So, Objective becomes, are there these modulations that everyone can intercept, or not? Science. And of course, we know there are MERs that
we don't know about, like Higgs. Without MRE Jesus can be said to exist, but, not "real."

There is nothing that rules out God, just as there is no evidence for. It takes faith or assumption to get to even Diety. Only one thing is un-equvical
and that is Truth of Self. Not the freak show we call the mind. Self.


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## olylifter420 (Jul 11, 2012)

whats wrong with that? you have all the right in the world to state your opinion. anyone trying to shut you up should get socked in the face. it goes both ways.





Padawanbater2 said:


> Try telling a theist "jesus is just your _opinion_"... lol


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## olylifter420 (Jul 11, 2012)

Exactly my point. the book is somewhat old and rather biased. 

thank God that I got some good bud... 

how are things for you other then going over to the darkside? lol....




Hepheastus420 said:


> You're right. I take back my dislike for all religions. I just dislike the book I followed.. And a few other religions I did research on.
> 
> No, you shouldn't lose respect for all atheists since all atheists don't have anything in common that stems from atheism itself.. Well besides the obvious disbelief in a god or deity.
> 
> ...


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## Hepheastus420 (Jul 11, 2012)

olylifter420 said:


> Exactly my point. the book is somewhat old and rather biased.
> 
> thank God that I got some good bud...
> 
> how are things for you other then going over to the darkside? lol....


True. Don't you follow the bible though oly? 

Yes, thank goodness we have dankness .

Doing pretty good. Saving up money and started building a garden.. Plus the darkside has cookies (isn't that right neer?) lol.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 11, 2012)

olylifter420 said:


> whats wrong with that? you have all the right in the world to state your opinion. anyone trying to shut you up should get socked in the face. it goes both ways.


They will tell you it's not an opinion. 

Whose trying to shut anyone up?


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## tyler.durden (Jul 11, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> True. Don't you follow the bible though oly?
> 
> Yes, thank goodness we have dankness .
> 
> Doing pretty good. Saving up money and started building a garden.. Plus the darkside has cookies (isn't that right neer?) lol.



C is for Cookie, that's good enough for me...

[video=youtube;lfbAgqB121w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfbAgqB121w[/video]


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## olylifter420 (Jul 11, 2012)

nah man, I dont find what is stated in there is logical, some parts.

I just keep my faith man... Thats all... Im no hardcore religious nut. 

LOL... the darkside has cookies. so does I. 

and hopefully when i have enough money, I ll go to SA and kick it smokn some bud...





Hepheastus420 said:


> True. Don't you follow the bible though oly?
> 
> Yes, thank goodness we have dankness .
> 
> Doing pretty good. Saving up money and started building a garden.. Plus the darkside has cookies (isn't that right neer?) lol.


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## olylifter420 (Jul 11, 2012)

anyone trying to impede the opinion of another, whether good or bad, I believe in respecting others voice. 

I totally understand your view pad, I just think that you think I am some hardcore religious nut... not the case...





Padawanbater2 said:


> They will tell you it's not an opinion.
> 
> Whose trying to shut anyone up?


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 11, 2012)

Why do you make no distinction between rational beliefs and irrational ones? 

What if somebody wanted to systematically exterminate some group of people, would you still give that guys beliefs respect? ...you wouldn't right? 

So if someone came in and said "hey, I think this guys beliefs might be a little dangerous to that group of people, maybe we should put a stop to it before it gets too out of hand...", using your logic, that guy would be 'impeding the opinion of another'... See the problem?


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## olylifter420 (Jul 11, 2012)

yeah, I do. Those are extreme beliefs found in psychopaths who have no remorse for human life. 

Be more specific in your title next time by what you mean by "respecting your beliefs".

If there was someone with those types of beliefs around me, I would do everything I could to stop that person from going through with their plan. 

where are you from? I just think where I am from, there are not that many people that go around trying to indoctrinate you with their beliefs.

I respect where you are coming from pad....




Padawanbater2 said:


> Why do you make no distinction between rational beliefs and irrational ones?
> 
> What if somebody wanted to systematically exterminate some group of people, would you still give that guys beliefs respect? ...you wouldn't right?
> 
> So if someone came in and said "hey, I think this guys beliefs might be a little dangerous to that group of people, maybe we should put a stop to it before it gets too out of hand...", using your logic, that guy would be 'impeding the opinion of another'... See the problem?


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## Zaehet Strife (Jul 11, 2012)

If you have been taught some sort of theology and it is presented to you as true, you have been indoctrinated.


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## olylifter420 (Jul 11, 2012)

Cool, that is good to know.





Zaehet Strife said:


> If you have been taught some sort of theology and it is presented to you as true, you have been indoctrinated.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 11, 2012)

i fear oliver was a young alter boy, who was touched by the vicar on a regular basis.that is where his indoctrination started .


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## olylifter420 (Jul 11, 2012)

Whats up dude?

Seems you have not changed.

Kuddos to sharing your personal experience and changing point in your life. It takes courage to do what you just did





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i fear oliver was a young alter boy, who was touched by the vicar on a regular basis.that is where his indoctrination started .


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## cannabineer (Jul 11, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Try telling a theist "jesus is just your _opinion_"... lol


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## Zaehet Strife (Jul 12, 2012)

Yea, well, that's just like...

[video=youtube;pWdd6_ZxX8c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c[/video]


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## Dr Kynes (Jul 12, 2012)

that shitty film has what to do with who? 

it's just another self addressed love letter for the ME generation. masturbation disguised as art and social commentary.

i imagine in a few months the Big Lebowski will be replaced with pithy quotes and insightful clips from the new successor to the throne of pointlessness, Big Ang. 

Cest' Charmant non? 

let us all reach for the unattainable glory of mediocrity together. perhaps someday all the world will reach the rarefied intellectual heights found only among the parlours and salons of the cognoscenti on the Jersey Shore. 

move over William F Buckley, The Situation wants to flex in the mirror and oil himself up some more.


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