# How Do We Eradicate Religion From Modern Society?



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 9, 2011)

I know in the uk, religion has become less n less popular in the last 15 years , most people who claim to be religious have never even been to church and only say they believe in there god because they have been told to do so growing up .when you question there beliefs they have no idea what they are talking about .I truly believe people in the uk are slowly waking up to religion and it lies . but what about places like america ? religion has a massive grip on the people and has a massive wealth behind it able to indoctrinate religious belief to children in schools on the tv and at your doorstep . 
How do we go about erradicating this evil and hatred for good ?


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 9, 2011)

It's not all evil and hatred bro. I believe in god and rarely show hatred and I'm certainly not evil, so I don't know what you're talking about when you group us all together. How about you leave us alone?


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## Heisenberg (Sep 9, 2011)

In simple terms, the answer is education and promotion of critical thinking. With this approach not only can we eliminate the potential evil inherit to dogmatic religion, we can also preserve the benefits, such as hope, humanistic pride, and inspiration. The goal is not to eradicate the idea of god, but dogmatic adherence to certainty in God.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> It's not all evil and hatred bro. I believe in god and rarely show hatred and I'm certainly not evil, so I don't know what you're talking about when you group us all together. How about you leave us alone?


 wich god is it that you believe and why is it you chose that god and not any of the other thousands of gods ?
and why dont you leave us alone , stop building your places of worship , and stop indoctrinating our children , then we can call a truse .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 9, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> In simple terms, the answer is education and promotion of critical thinking. With this approach not only can we eliminate the potential evil inherit to dogmatic religion, we can also preserve the benefits, such as hope, humanistic pride, and inspiration. The goal is not to eradicate the idea of god, but dogmatic adherence to certainty in God.


yes i like this .


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## Luger187 (Sep 9, 2011)

book burning!!!

jk lol


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## Prefontaine (Sep 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> I know in the uk, religion has become less n less popular in the last 15 years , most people who claim to be religious have never even been to church and only say they believe in there god because they have been told to do so growing up .when you question there beliefs they have no idea what they are talking about .I truly believe people in the uk are slowly waking up to religion and it lies . but what about places like america ? religion has a massive grip on the people and has a massive wealth behind it able to indoctrinate religious belief to children in schools on the tv and at your doorstep .
> How do we go about erradicating this evil and hatred for good ?


 Sociology was at one time thought to be the replacement for religion,


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> wich god is it that you believe and why is it you chose that god and not any of the other thousands of gods ?
> and why dont you leave us alone , stop building your places of worship , and stop indoctrinating our children , then we can call a truse .


I Believe in god and Jesus for his moral teachings. I don't follow other gods because I don't agree with them. First off I "worship" him alone and don't go to church because those people are usually hypocrites when it comes to their own beliefs. Anyway why should they stop building places of worship? Does it offend you when you see a building of worship? Either way they shouldn't care what you think of their building because they have the right to follow their beliefs. I don't indoctrinate children nor do I agree with it, but it's their child and you are in no place to tell people how to raise their children. Instead of getting mad at people for indoctrinating their own children why don't you go get mad at abortion, child labor, pedophiles, and just bad parenting? I don't see Religious people turning people's houses into places of worship nor do I see people indoctrinating atheists kids who's parents do not allow indoctrinating. So they leave you alone so why don't you leave us alone. Maybe when you stick to your own beliefs then we can call a truce.


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## Luger187 (Sep 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I Believe in god and Jesus for his moral teachings. I don't follow other gods because I don't agree with them.


there are many gods with the same teachings. budhists take the whole peace thing a lot further. they include animals, instead of seeing animals as things to be used for the benefit of humans.



> First off I "worship" him alone and don't go to church because those people are usually hypocrites when it comes to their own beliefs. Anyway why should they stop building places of worship? Does it offend you when you see a building of worship?


actually yes it does offend me. i feel ashamed that our species is still subject to such idiocy.
off topic a bit - some people in this country believe mosques should be blocked from being built because theyre afraid of being taken over by muslims. but we are already taken over by christians! they are just too blind to see it because they are christians themselves, and see this as a good thing. because they REALLY have the good morals... 



> I don't indoctrinate children nor do I agree with it, but it's their child and you are in no place to tell people how to raise their children.


i believe there are things that all children should learn, such as science. religion can stop that from happening, especially in the southern states. they tend to say 'jesus did it' rather than finding out the real cause. this produces idiots, who then go on to do the same to their children.



> Instead of getting mad at people for indoctrinating their own children why don't you go get mad at abortion, child labor, pedophiles, and just bad parenting?


why cant we include children indoctrination along with the rest? teaching children religion is bad parenting. it makes them have a fucked up view of the world.



> I don't see Religious people turning people's houses into places of worship nor do I see people indoctrinating atheists kids who's parents do not allow indoctrinating.


but what about the kids of religious parents? why should they be subjected to it?



> So they leave you alone so why don't you leave us alone. Maybe when you stick to your own beliefs then we can call a truce.


they dont leave me alone. im constantly being told that god is real and jesus was the prophet, etc. there are churches and crosses everywhere. have you ever driven through texas? they have HUGE white crosses all over the highways, and ads that tell you to believe in jesus. i dont think anyone should believe that because its absolutely ridiculous.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 9, 2011)

how can you say you dont indoctrinate our children ? you really believe if noone was taught any religious beliefs before they were 18 you would have any followers . religion prays on the fact that it can poison childrens minds . your mind has been poisend that is why you can not let go of the indoctrinated beliefs you have been taught ........but guess what ....muslims have been brainwashed by another god and yopurs means nothing to them , they think your god is bullshit and they would happily kill you to prove there point . i still dont see what it is that convinces you that YOUR god is the real one , theres so many more than the shitty christian one , it just happens that you were born in america .[/QUOTE]


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 9, 2011)

Yeah well there's no point in trying to defend religion you are set on your belief that religion is EVIL, ha that's funny. Oh and luger I live in Texas they don't have signs that tell you to believe in Jesus. And even if they did you shouldn't give a shit because you don't believe it. Plenty of religious people are forced to learn things they don't want to in school. Also yes they teach science in southern states. I mean shit I live in texas and had to learn a crap load of science but they never taught religion so i dont know what atheists are bitching about. The churches there are just church's you don't have to look at them nor pay attention to them. But whatever I can just as easily say all atheists are evil just like you guys think all religion should end because we are wicked. I'm done with people who don't give religion a chance. I'm gonna go to oly's house to go smoke a bowl, peace. But wait I can't say peace because I'm a Christian and we are evil, so sorry I forgot.


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## Luger187 (Sep 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Oh and luger I live in Texas they don't have signs that tell you to believe in Jesus.


ive been through texas about 5 times and have seen them myself.



> The churches their are just church's you don't have to look at them.


i do when its a building that is bigger than anything else around and has a big cross out front.
if there was jewish stars or crescent moons all around your neighborhood, would you be okay with someone telling you just to not look at them? especially when you believe your god is the one true god. its the same thing for us, except we believe your god simply doesnt exist



> But whatever I can just as easily say all atheists are evil just like you guys think all religion should end because we are wicked.


how does a lack of belief in something make us evil?\
we believe religion should end because it produces idiots that cant understand reality, and they depend on their god for answers, when they should be relying on science to fix the situation. like those prayer services they do in stadiums. those people really believe that if they pray hard enough, god will come down and change events on earth. like i said, IDIOTS.
its not because you are wicked. it is because we see it as harmful to society as a whole, while in disguise as a peaceful religion that harms no one. 



> I'm done with people who don't give religion a chance. I'm gonna go to oly's house to go smoke a bowl, peace. But wait I can't say peace because I'm a Christian and we are evil, so sorry I forgot.


we give you and oly plenty of chances. but your explanations are nothing but faith and bullshit. we demand evidence, logic and facts. none of which you guys provide when asked.

edit: actually, hep uses logic. but my point is still valid


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 9, 2011)

* Hepheastus420 there is no point in arguing with a mind like this , you may aswell argue for the existance of the loch ness monster , this guy has been brain washed and theres nothing us intelligent guys can do to change this disgrace to the human life . 
*


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 9, 2011)

he is a freak and will never admit to true reasoning cause his mommy told him different , seriousley disregard anything his mind says hes a disgrace to humans and has no part in our society .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 9, 2011)

heph continues to ignore evidence, there is no reasoning with a mind like this .


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## DSB65 (Sep 9, 2011)

You cant..everybody wants to believe in something.....


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## dam612 (Sep 9, 2011)

i live in america and can honestly say that we are on the decline as well with religion. havent been to church in like 15 years and only know a handful of people who do. most;y eldr people stuck in their ways. i think the younger society realize its all bs, and most people i know only went as far as they had to make confirmation bc if you dont you cant get married in a church. i have no intentions of getting married in a church but it was imposed upon me to go to religion classes for such reasons, and as a child i did as i was told.


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## undertheice (Sep 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> .....why don't you leave us alone , stop building your places of worship , and stop indoctrinating our children , then we can call a truce .


silence that with which you disagree and bury anything that may offend your delicate sensibilities? is that really the way you would have your "world without religion" started?

i've never had any use for religion. in fact, i have only the vaguest understanding of how anyone could get caught up in such a mania, even though i grew up as the eldest grandson of a baptist minister. what i do understand is that billions of people *need* that faith in something greater and it helps many of them lead a better life. it may not be realistic to have such a faith and there may not be a shred of truth to any of it, but it is no more harmful than your rabid hatred of it. i'm reminded of the massive confiscations of property and the imprisonments aimed at the religious under stalin, mao and myriad other petty tyrants through history and i wonder what separates your view from theirs.


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## Dizzle Frost (Sep 9, 2011)

You can never eradicate any religion, the more you take away, the more people will want to be there...they call it having faith and stuff lol

example...the nazis tried to eradicate Jew's, but what they did was make a proud strong group of survivors

Im working on how to eradicate assholes in the world right now, but thats not going so well either


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## dam612 (Sep 9, 2011)

funny how people can have more faith in non existent things but cant find faith in themselves. stop believing in god and believe in yourself.


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## Dizzle Frost (Sep 9, 2011)

dam612 said:


> funny how people can have more faith in non existent things but cant find faith in themselves. stop believing in god and believe in yourself.


 well put man, that pisses me off to...people are to weak to fight cancer..but religion somehow gives em the power to. the human mind is the most powerful thing a person can own.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> heph continues to ignore evidence, there is no reasoning with a mind like this .


WTF are you talking about? I agree with science I just believe god has a plan for us. I believe science has not counted out the possibility of god. So how am I not facing the evidence?


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## mindphuk (Sep 9, 2011)

undertheice said:


> what i do understand is that billions of people *need* that faith in something greater and it helps many of them lead a better life.


Maybe one day you will provide some evidence to back this claim up. The null hypothesis being that without religion, billions of people would lead worse lives. 


> it may not be realistic to have such a faith and there may not be a shred of truth to any of it, but it is no more harmful than your rabid hatred of it. i'm reminded of the massive confiscations of property and the imprisonments aimed at the religious under stalin, mao and myriad other petty tyrants through history and i wonder what separates your view from theirs.


To answer the second question first and that is that most atheists are not tyrannical and would prefer religion go away because of enlightenment and not forced away at the point of a gun.

We have been around and around with this before but I believe that claim that religion is not harmful has been shown to be false many times in many threads. At the very least it leads to sloppy thinking and the erroneous belief that blind faith is a positive attribute. These ideas damage society from within.


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 9, 2011)

I worry that possibly we may never get rid of it as it is a side effect of peoples inability to understand chain of events and ultimate causality,its a coping method to make sense of that which we dont really understand but always wonder about. Socialogically speaking,aside from those with anxiety disorders or ocd etc., people are more likely to be more superstitious the less educated they are. This ties in with what I was saying previously. I do believe though that as information and science pushes forward it will help to reduce the amount of rediculousness. Think for example how a long time ago people jsed to think that thunder was ghe sound of an angry god and such. Now, as science.has helped assure us, we know this is not the case. But to ask people to stop with the religios rediculousness is equal to asking people to get smarter faster. Sorry if I sound pompous, but this is just my opinion. We just need to leave them alone and politely insist they give us the same courtisy. If they arent in your face with it,then I dont hate them, only feel bad for them. Compassion is the answer for now and probably a while to come...IMO


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## undertheice (Sep 9, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> Maybe one day you will provide some evidence to back this claim up. The null hypothesis being that without religion, billions of people would lead worse lives.


the sheer number of the religious of various faiths points undeniably to some need that is filled by whatever it is that religion gives these people. you can fiddle and fret over my use of the word "need", but it gives them something that nothing else seems to provide. would they be better off without it? who's to say. having dealt with some who seem almost fanatical in their faith, it appears to be the sense of fellowship and the stability of an unchanging creed that most impacts their lives most and turns them toward their better selves when tempted by the worse. 



> .....most atheists are not tyrannical and would prefer religion go away because of enlightenment and not forced away at the point of a gun.


i know that well. after all, i'm one of them and refuse to associate with the activist sort. my post was in response to the quote and its implications. the very thought of demanding that anyone hide away their true selves for the sake of the bias of another is an old tune and incredibly distasteful. 



> We have been around and around with this before but I believe that claim that religion is not harmful has been shown to be false many times in many threads.


i know your stance on the subject, you know mine and there is little point in rehashing the matter. i do find it amusing that you seem to think religion's harmfulness has been proven, but i suppose it's a small conceit. i'd love for you to realize that those things which bring out the worst in humanity may also bring out his best, but i'll leave that to someone with more patience than i possess.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 9, 2011)

You shall never eradicate us mmwhahahahaha.


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## Luger187 (Sep 9, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> Maybe one day you will provide some evidence to back this claim up. The null hypothesis being that without religion, billions of people would lead worse lives.


its like an addict saying they need their drug. they just feel the urge because thats what they are used to and it gives them comfort. but they dont really _need_ it


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Sep 9, 2011)

You cant get rid of religion by force,im sure most of us know this,there are countless people who live their life by it and who will continue to do so.But it will be the passage of time to which the prophecies dont come true,as all other predictions of the end of the world have come to pass and guess what no end.The" prophets" were wrong each and every time they predicted the end of humanity in the course of history.I believe they will continue to be wrong as time goes by,but it must come to pass that the fervent believers see that there reality isnt in sinc with the natural laws that govern each and every life on the planet and perhaps the real light of life can shine for them.But this must take time and patience for they must unplug from the "Matrix" so to speak,and im saying this on the level that those who believe blindly are to the point that they are breaking their own dogma countless times without knowing it and never even considering the fact that God isnt going to strike them down because he dosent exist so tangibly to the world as scriptures would have mankind believe,they are just living a life with contradictorial notions of right and wrong screwing up their own minds and never finding the truth that already exists within themselves.Now i dont wish to undermine that there are morals being taught in this system that are upright and beneficial to the world a few of which I personaly adhere to,but the methodology behind the teaching is just as shameful as deceit itself.


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## cannabineer (Sep 9, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> its like an addict saying they need their drug. they just feel the urge because thats what they are used to and it gives them comfort. but they dont really _need_ it


I'm not an addict. It's a drug deficiency.


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## kindnugz (Sep 9, 2011)

You say you want to eradicate religion? Would you make religion illegal like Stalin or Hitler and persecute believers? Maybe you should move to China so you can live in a secular-by-force society and see how you like it.

Grow up and realize that the world is full of opposing viewpoints and beliefs. If you dont like that, too bad. Sounds like you are the one with the hatred.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 10, 2011)

A simple solution is getting rid of atheism and those who go against religion.


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## Carne Seca (Sep 10, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> A simple solution is getting rid of atheism and those who go against religion.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 10, 2011)

kindnugz said:


> You say you want to eradicate religion? Would you make religion illegal like Stalin or Hitler and persecute believers? Maybe you should move to China so you can live in a secular-by-force society and see how you like it.
> 
> Grow up and realize that the world is full of opposing viewpoints and beliefs. If you dont like that, too bad. Sounds like you are the one with the hatred.


Well put bro. Like seriously all these atheists bitching an shit and then when someone like me comes along and says how about we bring peace among the religions and atheists many of the atheists tell me to stop complaining.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 10, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> A simple solution is getting rid of atheism and those who go against religion.


Oh how the tables have turned.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 10, 2011)

carne seca, i dont get it.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 10, 2011)

Yeah, i think they got some type of fetish getting off on trying to make.believers into none believers just cause they think it lacks validity, yet they claim anectodal evidence does not suffice, while their own views about beievers is anectodal as well. Truly hypocrites





Hepheastus420 said:


> Well put bro. Like seriously all these atheists bitching an shit and then when someone like me comes along and says how about we bring peace among the religions and atheists many of the atheists tell me to stop complaining.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 10, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> carne seca, i dont get it.


He's cooking the atheist, that's how is is exterminating the atheists.


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## PetFlora (Sep 10, 2011)

Most religious people are followers. Their parents, grand parents, great- grand parents... all participated in the sham. Anyone who delves deep below the surface will see that all religions stem from Ra in Egypt: virgin births, son (sun) of god, burning bush, commandment tablets... 

Thankfully, conscious or not, people are slowly waking up. Maybe it's all the UFO sightings, combined with authors exposing who really seeded human life on earth- Ea. Alas, Ea's jealous son killed his good son: see Enlil/Enki (think Cain & Abel) and began a reign of terror that we still find ourselves in today. The good news is we are at the end of a 26,000 year cycle. A new conscious energy is approaching. It acts as a reboot of sorts. The closer we get (almost there) the more awake and aware we become, putting an end to religions part in the reign of terror.


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## Luger187 (Sep 10, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Well put bro. Like seriously all these atheists bitching an shit and then when someone like me comes along and says how about we bring peace among the religions and atheists many of the atheists tell me to stop complaining.


you only want peace because people dont like your religion and you want it to stop. sorry, but religion deserves everything thats coming at it and more. we dont need it anymore



olylifter420 said:


> Yeah, i think they got some type of fetish getting off on trying to make.believers into none believers just cause they think it lacks validity, yet they claim anectodal evidence does not suffice, while their own views about beievers is anectodal as well. Truly hypocrites


we are trying to show you that what you believe in is nothing but old stories that have been changed over time. it is not the word of god in your holy book. you have yet to provide any evidence or anything that shows god can exist, even when asked MANY times. without any reason to believe in it, why the fuck would you believe in it? if you have a reason, tell us. btw, faith IS NOT a legit reason. that just means you believe without questioning it.
what views do we have about believers that are anecdotal?


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 10, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> you only want peace because people dont like your religion and you want it to stop. sorry, but religion deserves everything thats coming at it and more. we dont need it anymore
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have already told you that I have my own reasons that do not concern you, if I did tell you, you would just mock me for my beliefs. So can you give me proof and facts of how the big bang initially started? Like how did nothing turn into the universe? That doesn't make sense either.


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## Luger187 (Sep 10, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I have already told you that I have my own reasons that do not concern you, if I did tell you, you would just mock me for my beliefs. So can you give me proof and facts of how the big bang initially started? Like how did nothing turn into the universe? That doesn't make sense either.


for the last time, the big bang theory is just our best theory at the moment. we dont know what was before the big bang. but just because we dont know DOES NOT give us the right to suggest we do know a god did it. that sounds MUCH more ridiculous. especially considering you have NOTHING to even suggest it is true. and even if that god did exist, why do you think he would give a shit about us? we are EXTREMELY insignificant in the universe.

edit: just like if i were to say that i know for a fact what happened before the big bang. there was a spaghetti god that combined with some special god sauce. then a reaction occurred, and a new universe came forth from the god sauce. we are that universe. i know this happened because i have this old book here that tells me. the spaghetti god came down and talked to people, and they wrote the book. i have faith, and you should too.
how stupid does that sound? that is exactly what the religious do. they say they know for a fact, but they have ZERO backup for their claims. and their excuse for it all is that they have faith. its utter bullshit


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 10, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> for the last time, the big bang theory is just our best theory at the moment. we dont know what was before the big bang. but just because we dont know DOES NOT give us the right to suggest we do know a god did it. that sounds MUCH more ridiculous. especially considering you have NOTHING to even suggest it is true. and even if that god did exist, why do you think he would give a shit about us? we are EXTREMELY insignificant in the universe


 So you have no facts and I have no facts? Tell you what, when you find out for sure that the big bang theory turns into fact and that is how the universe began then you can complain about religion. Until then just face the fact that religious people think different then you.


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## Luger187 (Sep 10, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So you have no facts and I have no facts? Tell you what, when you find out for sure that the big bang theory turns into fact and that is how the universe began then you can complain about religion. Until then just face the fact that religious people think different then you.


we do have facts that show that the universe was once a singularity. science does not claim to know what happened before the big bang. they say 'we dont know'. you on the other hand claim to know, so you must provide evidence.


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## Luger187 (Sep 10, 2011)

Hep, you must realize that atheists do not claim to know how the universe was created. we do not know. but we think it is crazy to believe a 2,000 year old book that has been changed MANY TIMES by humans, is fact. you claim to know god did it, but fail to explain why or how, or even show any evidence at all that he did. shouldnt you have SOMETHING to rely on that says you are right?


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## Luger187 (Sep 10, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Until then just face the fact that religious people think different then you.


should we just let a group of muslims think we are evil and want to kill us, just because they interpret their holy book as saying so? does freedom of religion go so far as to say you can believe in ANYTHING and nobody can argue with it, because you believe it?
religion is not automatically correct because it calls itself a religion


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 10, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> should we just let a group of muslims think we are evil and want to kill us, just because they interpret their holy book as saying so? does freedom of religion go so far as to say you can believe in ANYTHING and nobody can argue with it, because you believe it?
> religion is not automatically correct because it calls itself a religion


Come on bro you know I don't agree with killing. I'm only defending the religious people who don't corrupt what they read and understand. Besides the Quran never said to kill us so if a Muslim wants to kill us that's because he is crazy and you have the right to smack him on the head with a baseball bat.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 10, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> we do have facts that show that the universe was once a singularity. science does not claim to know what happened before the big bang. they say 'we dont know'. you on the other hand claim to know, so you must provide evidence.


 And I have said I have no evidence so sorry for constantly asking to prove what you believe is fact. How about this I have faith that god is our creator. Now I never said it's fact nor did I say I can provide evidence.


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## Luger187 (Sep 10, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Come on bro you know I don't agree with killing. I'm only defending the religious people who don't corrupt what they read and understand. Besides the Quran never said to kill us so if a Muslim wants to kill us that's because he is crazy and you have the right to smack him on the head with a baseball bat.


you dont agree with killing, but your god does. so do a lot of other gods, according to their holy books. its very easy for religion to be practiced in such a way that it is 'ok' for them to harm others, as long as their god says its ok. 
those that practice their religion peacefully and spread the idea of freedom of religion are also spreading the idea of religious fundamentalism/extremism. the two go hand in hand. there will always be factions of religions that view it in such a way that average society would consider bad. the more you protest those who speak negatively of religion, the more you defend those who harm others in the name of religion. by not having that opposing force to keep religion in its tracks, religion will not think twice about spreading like a virus and taking control of its hosts. it always has, always does, and always will


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 10, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> you dont agree with killing, but your god does. so do a lot of other gods, according to their holy books. its very easy for religion to be practiced in such a way that it is 'ok' for them to harm others, as long as their god says its ok.
> those that practice their religion peacefully and spread the idea of freedom of religion are also spreading the idea of religious fundamentalism/extremism. the two go hand in hand. there will always be factions of religions that view it in such a way that average society would consider bad. the more you protest those who speak negatively of religion, the more you defend those who harm others in the name of religion. by not having that opposing force to keep religion in its tracks, religion will not think twice about spreading like a virus and taking control of its hosts. it always has, always does, and always will


 Yeah my god does not me. So it still doesn't justify why others kill. And if it's always gonna happen then just face the music.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 10, 2011)

So then why dont you shut then, huh? 

Giving us shit cause we aint got "facts" while you dont have the facts.to base what happened pre "bing bang"






Luger187 said:


> we do have facts that show that the universe was once a singularity. science does not claim to know what happened before the big bang. they say 'we dont know'. you on the other hand claim to know, so you must provide evidence.


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## Luger187 (Sep 10, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Yeah my god does not me. So it still doesn't justify why others kill. And if it's always gonna happen then just face the music.


if your god does, then other people like you may find an excuse and reason to kill someone by reading scripture. all it takes is a different interpretation to obtain justification. 
yes, killing will always be a human problem. but religion can so easily be twisted and taught in a way that manipulates people. it can give people a REASON to kill. we saw this on 9/11.
religion gives us too many problems compared to the positives it gives(only for those who believe in it, of course). look at our political system. all the politicians are religious people, or people that pretend to be religious just to get votes. people even vote in politicians that are of the same religion as them, nevermind their background or what they plan to do. then all these people put intelligent design into textbook form and try to claim its science. they slow down funding for very important scientific research.

also you have ZERO evidence. the stuff the religious 'scientists' come up with gets laughed at by everyone because they flat out lie or change things around to fit their preconceived ideas. they have a whole museum dedicated to creationism where they teach kids dinosaurs lived with humans! http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=creation+museum&aq=0&oq=creation+muse
that is totally WRONG(even if they were to find good evidence today, it would still be wrong because they had nothing beforehand, and were lying to people while acting like an educational museum.)
imagine if they didnt do things like this. imagine how much this changes peoples lives. what if the next great scientist grew up in a house that taught this garbage and visited museums like this? as opposed to a legitimate education that teaches how reality works and WHY it works. which is going to come up with better theories?

all these problems religion causes society, just so YOU can have a nice fuzzy feeling inside. all of which is nothing but a process of the brain and body.


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## Dizzle Frost (Sep 10, 2011)

well put down Luger


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## Luger187 (Sep 10, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> So then why dont you shut then, huh?
> 
> Giving us shit cause we aint got "facts" while you dont have the facts.to base what happened pre "bing bang"


who claims to know what happened before the big bang? not me.

[video=youtube;uyCkADmNdNo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyCkADmNdNo[/video]
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/astronomy/bigbang.html
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/03/0317_060317_big_bang.html
http://big-bang-theory.com/


> First of all, we are reasonably certain that the universe had a beginning.
> Second, galaxies appear to be moving away from us at speeds proportional to their distance. This is called "Hubble's Law," named after Edwin Hubble (1889-1953) who discovered this phenomenon in 1929. This observation supports the expansion of the universe and suggests that the universe was once compacted.
> Third, if the universe was initially very, very hot as the Big Bang suggests, we should be able to find some remnant of this heat. In 1965, Radioastronomers Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson discovered a 2.725 degree Kelvin (-454.765 degree Fahrenheit, -270.425 degree Celsius) Cosmic Microwave Background radiation (CMB) which pervades the observable universe. This is thought to be the remnant which scientists were looking for. Penzias and Wilson shared in the 1978 Nobel Prize for Physics for their discovery.
> Finally, the abundance of the "light elements" Hydrogen and Helium found in the observable universe are thought to support the Big Bang model of origins.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 10, 2011)

> who claims to know what happened before the big bang? not me.




how funny cause that is the same thing we (believers) say when you accuse us of being some "religious nut job"! You seriously need to step out of your bubble and into reality... You all speak of reality like some natural thing for you all, but what is reality when it is construed with this hatred for believers and a want to put them down... that my friend is a mental issue and you probably do not live in reality...


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## olylifter420 (Sep 10, 2011)

imagine if hitler or stalin would of not have killed so many millions of people what great minds we could of had now... dont you just think if these aforementioned atheists were not to of done the things they did, what advances do you think we would have had?





Luger187 said:


> if your god does, then other people like you may find an excuse and reason to kill someone by reading scripture. all it takes is a different interpretation to obtain justification.
> yes, killing will always be a human problem. but religion can so easily be twisted and taught in a way that manipulates people. it can give people a REASON to kill. we saw this on 9/11.
> religion gives us too many problems compared to the positives it gives(only for those who believe in it, of course). look at our political system. all the politicians are religious people, or people that pretend to be religious just to get votes. people even vote in politicians that are of the same religion as them, nevermind their background or what they plan to do. then all these people put intelligent design into textbook form and try to claim its science. they slow down funding for very important scientific research.
> 
> ...


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## bud nugbong (Sep 10, 2011)

i saw this ad on tv where a pastor or whatever was asking for 1,000$ donations, and if you did that most likely god will grant you a favor. wtf is that? and for an example he talked about a woman who was struggling and because she gave 1,000 to god (this fools house payment) she got "blessed" with a new job and a loan or some bullshit. 

religion is just a different way for people with no skills to make money, well they have skills in bullshitting people/.


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## Luger187 (Sep 10, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> how funny cause that is the same thing we (believers) say when you accuse us of being some "religious nut job"! You seriously need to step out of your bubble and into reality... You all speak of reality like some natural thing for you all, but what is reality when it is construed with this hatred for believers and a want to put them down... that my friend is a mental issue and you probably do not live in reality...


oly says the darndest things...



olylifter420 said:


> imagine if hitler or stalin would of not have killed so many millions of people what great minds we could of had now... dont you just think if these aforementioned atheists were not to of done the things they did, what advances do you think we would have had?


if religion wasnt a part of the process, the people wouldnt have been persuaded to do what they did. hitler would not have been powerful because he couldnt have gained political momentum with no jews to hate on. how can you hate jews if there is no such thing as a jew? if they were just other germans, how would he differentiate them? maybe race(which he also did), but thats another issue


BTW, sorry about the bad audio quality on the vid


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## Luger187 (Sep 10, 2011)

bud nugbong said:


> i saw this ad on tv where a pastor or whatever was asking for 1,000$ donations, and if you did that most likely god will grant you a favor. wtf is that? and for an example he talked about a woman who was struggling and because she gave 1,000 to god (this fools house payment) she got "blessed" with a new job and a loan or some bullshit.
> 
> religion is just a different way for people with no skills to make money, well they have skills in bullshitting people/.


aka psychopaths http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
theyre also good in the banking industry


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 10, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> if your god does, then other people like you may find an excuse and reason to kill someone by reading scripture. all it takes is a different interpretation to obtain justification.
> yes, killing will always be a human problem. but religion can so easily be twisted and taught in a way that manipulates people. it can give people a REASON to kill. we saw this on 9/11.
> religion gives us too many problems compared to the positives it gives(only for those who believe in it, of course). look at our political system. all the politicians are religious people, or people that pretend to be religious just to get votes. people even vote in politicians that are of the same religion as them, nevermind their background or what they plan to do. then all these people put intelligent design into textbook form and try to claim its science. they slow down funding for very important scientific research.
> 
> ...


Are you not listening to anything I say? I agreed that religion is gonna be abused and I don't agree with it. So you're arguing with the wrong person. And I have said I don't have evidence dipshit. Man LISTEN I already said I don't care what you say, because you group me with every other religious person out there. If an atheists sees no point in life so causes destruction then I can group you with him and say everyone should have a religion. But guess what. I'm not gonna do that because unlike you I'm open minded to other people's beliefs. How about you do the same? Get over it you lost against all religious people around the world. Besides stop acting like religion is causing every problem in the world. Religious people and atheists are both just as bad and ending religion won't cause those people to be any better. Shit you guys are blind to see that. How about you go find how the universe actually began and stop hating religion as a whole.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 10, 2011)

bud nugbong said:


> i saw this ad on tv where a pastor or whatever was asking for 1,000$ donations, and if you did that most likely god will grant you a favor. wtf is that? and for an example he talked about a woman who was struggling and because she gave 1,000 to god (this fools house payment) she got "blessed" with a new job and a loan or some bullshit.
> 
> religion is just a different way for people with no skills to make money, well they have skills in bullshitting people/.


Listen, not every religious person does that.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 10, 2011)

> how can you hate jews if there is no such thing as a jew?



are you really that stupid? he killed cause of their beliefs. what about stalin? he just liked killing germans and whoever they cam across

no apologies needed...


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## olylifter420 (Sep 10, 2011)

> Are you not listening to anything I say?



no they dont bro... i saw that along time ago so i stopped be coherent with them and made myself seem like a "religious nut job" LOL

when i ask them valid questions, they respond with their childish responses, oly says the darndest things, lol... shows how blind they are


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 10, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> no they dont bro... i saw that along time ago so i stopped be coherent with them and made myself seem like a "religious nut job" LOL
> 
> when i ask them valid questions, they respond with their childish responses, oly says the darndest things, lol... shows how blind they are


 Damn bro it's like you're my future self.


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## smokey mcsmokester (Sep 10, 2011)

As I sit and read all of your opinions, Im left wondering what this world is coming to. I respect each and every one of your opinions, therefore I will state mine... I am aware that religion is something thats been fading for years now throughout Eroupe and the United States and the pace is picking up... I myself do believe in God and Jesus Christ.. Of course I am skepticle with God at times, If I wasn't, I wouldn't be human..

Lets say religion in God IS A BRAINWASHING TOOL as many think..Now look back 30, 40 years ago before many turned there backs on religion..

It was rare in America to hear of individuals running rampant around schools , restaraunts, and malls with machine guns killing innocent children and other human for self gratification... Am I not right??

So lets keep up the fight of keeping religion out of schools and so forth....

IMO... Brainwashing techniqe or not..... IT WORKED!!!!

Again this is my opinion....


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 10, 2011)

smokey mcsmokester said:


> As I sit and read all of your opinions, Im left wondering what this world is coming to. I respect each and every one of your opinions, therefore I will state mine... I am aware that religion is something thats been fading for years now throughout Eroupe and the United States and the pace is picking up... I myself do believe in God and Jesus Christ.. Of course I am skepticle with God at times, If I wasn't, I wouldn't be human..
> 
> Lets say religion in God IS A BRAINWASHING TOOL as many think..Now look back 30, 40 years ago before many turned there backs on religion..
> 
> ...


Yeah I hav said that before bro. I have stated that not all religion doesn't cause destruction like they say it does but they are just gonna ignore it. Good point though, but it doesn't count to them.


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## Luger187 (Sep 10, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Are you not listening to anything I say? I agreed that religion is gonna be abused and I don't agree with it. So you're arguing with the wrong person.


so why are you religious? do you join the nazi party, even though you dont partake in their activities and you know they do bad things?



> And I have said I don't have evidence dipshit.


sorry, but again why are you religious?



> Man LISTEN I already said I don't care what you say, because you group me with every other religious person out there. If an atheists sees no point in life so causes destruction then I can group you with him and say everyone should have a religion.


me and that atheist are not related, because you are connecting us based on the LACK of belief in something. its like connecting people who DONT believe in bigfoot.
but i am making a connection between religion and the negative things it does, which are DIRECTLY related to the PRESENCE of a belief in religion.



> But guess what. I'm not gonna do that because unlike you I'm open minded to other people's beliefs. How about you do the same?


im willing to have my beliefs questioned



> Get over it you lost against all religious people around the world.


i think you claimed victory too soon...



> Besides stop acting like religion is causing every problem in the world.


if you have a problem with my argument, refute what i said. i dont mind it



> Religious people and atheists are both just as bad and ending religion won't cause those people to be any better.


so 9/11 definitely would have happened if islam didnt exist? right...



> Shit you guys are blind to see that. How about you go find how the universe actually began and stop hating religion as a whole.


we have been trying to do that. but religion is slowing us down by teaching kids that god definitely created the universe and the big bang theory is a bunch of horse shit.


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## bud nugbong (Sep 10, 2011)

ill state my view. religion is for weak minded people who cant make it through life on there own. or drug addicts looking for a helping hand. (Alcoholics Anonomys is pretty much a cult that you must give in to god) I hated having other peoples religous views pressed on me as a kid and i think thats why i look at it so negativly. i figured out when i was like 10 its all a fat balogna sandwich. but like i said if it makes your life better go for it just dont go around trying to convert other ppl, or collect donations for gods new church and the pastors bills.


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## Luger187 (Sep 10, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> are you really that stupid? he killed cause of their beliefs. what about stalin? he just liked killing germans and whoever they cam across
> 
> no apologies needed...


thats what i was getting at. if he had no group to point to and say "they did it" he wouldnt have gained power because the people wouldnt have been swept up by it. his entire campaign was based on putting one group against the other. he would have had a harder time doing what he did if he could not do that.

i dont know too much about stalin



olylifter420 said:


> no they dont bro... i saw that along time ago so i stopped be coherent with them and made myself seem like a "religious nut job" LOL
> 
> when i ask them valid questions, they respond with their childish responses, oly says the darndest things, lol... shows how blind they are


you think you asked valid questions in that thread?! show us please


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## Luger187 (Sep 10, 2011)

smokey mcsmokester said:


> As I sit and read all of your opinions, Im left wondering what this world is coming to. I respect each and every one of your opinions, therefore I will state mine... I am aware that religion is something thats been fading for years now throughout Eroupe and the United States and the pace is picking up... I myself do believe in God and Jesus Christ.. Of course I am skepticle with God at times, If I wasn't, I wouldn't be human..
> 
> Lets say religion in God IS A BRAINWASHING TOOL as many think..Now look back 30, 40 years ago before many turned there backs on religion..
> 
> ...


what reason do you have to connect lack of religion to the killings? just the time it started?


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## Heisenberg (Sep 10, 2011)

smokey mcsmokester said:


> As I sit and read all of your opinions, Im left wondering what this world is coming to. I respect each and every one of your opinions, therefore I will state mine... I am aware that religion is something thats been fading for years now throughout Eroupe and the United States and the pace is picking up... I myself do believe in God and Jesus Christ.. Of course I am skepticle with God at times, If I wasn't, I wouldn't be human..
> 
> Lets say religion in God IS A BRAINWASHING TOOL as many think..Now look back 30, 40 years ago before many turned there backs on religion..
> 
> ...


Just one point of clarification. The worst school massacre in history was in the 1920's. I think you need to consider the increase in population and the increase in weapon availability, as well as increased awareness due to the media before you make a conclusion such as yours. How many of these people were atheists? Your conclusion may indeed be correct, but the evidence you offered is in no way sufficient or even suggestive, and the evidence I see suggests nothing towards the lack of religion.


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## Dizzle Frost (Sep 10, 2011)

Mankind is the most dangerous animal on the planet because...before there was religion humans were killing eachother , and then people killed for religion like the crusades. So in all reality, humans will kill eachother for the rest of our time on earth no matter what beliefs we carry with us. 150 years ago it was ok to kill people if they did certain things to you, your fam, or your proerty. Society has gotten so fuckin lame by protecting everyone that they lost that connection. So now adays its easy to pass shit off on religion. Its just all in how you look at it i guess. I see religion as a belief or something to have that people cant take from you, nothing more. I have no like for the extremist relgion people no matter if thier muslin or christians. I have my own religion, its called "Freedom" freedom of choice of everything, but i also know things come at a price.

Im super fuckin baked so sorry if this post sucks lol


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 10, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> thats what i was getting at. if he had no group to point to and say "they did it" he wouldnt have gained power because the people wouldnt have been swept up by it. his entire campaign was based on putting one group against the other. he would have had a harder time doing what he did if he could not do that.
> 
> i dont know too much about stalin
> 
> ...


So you asked me if I was joining the nazi party yet you try to justify hitler and say it was the Jews fault. Ha, typical atheist.


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## Carne Seca (Sep 10, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> He's cooking the atheist, that's how is is exterminating the atheists.


If you can't beat them... eat them.


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## Luger187 (Sep 10, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So you asked me if I was joining the nazi party yet you try to justify hitler and say it was the Jews fault. Ha, typical atheist.


why do you say im justifying hitler? im pointing out that he used religion as a reason to take control and also to go to war.

also, how does that make me a typical atheist?


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## Luger187 (Sep 10, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So you asked me if I was joining the nazi party yet you try to justify hitler and say it was the Jews fault. Ha, typical atheist.


and id like responses to my posts plz


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 10, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> why do you say im justifying hitler? im pointing out that he used religion as a reason to take control and also to go to war.
> 
> also, how does that make me a typical atheist?


 It sure does sound like you're blaming Jews for hitlers actions to me. And I'm saying typical atheist because you're going to use every cheap example to blame religious people for creating a negative impact.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 10, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> so why are you religious? do you join the nazi party, even though you dont partake in their activities and you know they do bad things?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not a nazi. Obviously they did not teach all kids because I see a shit load of atheists around me all the time that are all for the big bang. I'm not slowing anyone down when it comes to science so once again you're arguing with the wrong person. Eradicating religion won't do shit when it comes to the world working hand in hand in your perfect little world that has been corrupted due to religion alone. I claimed victory because no matter how you decide to attempt to eradicate religion you won't end my beliefs. Once again I have my own reasons to believe in god that don't concern you. Anyway we are going around in circles so I'm not going to reply to your pointless questions. If you have a beneficial question then by all means ask it.


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## Luger187 (Sep 10, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> It sure does sound like you're blaming Jews for hitlers actions to me. And I'm saying typical atheist because you're going to use every cheap example to blame religious people for creating a negative impact.


i was partially blaming the religion itself, not the jews.

these are cheap examples?
-9/11
-politics(you know, the people who control our lives...)
-people voting only based on religion
-intelligent design
-research funding
-no evidence(teaches people you can believe whatever you want and make up stuff in order to keep it going)
-denying real evidence that contradicts their beliefs
-creationist museum
-they are taught to never question their beliefs

all of these except intelligent design and the creationist museum affect me every day of my life


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## Luger187 (Sep 10, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I'm not a nazi.


it was a bad example, but i was trying to point out that you know religion does bad things, and you have no evidence for why you believe, so why do you believe?
just like joining the nazi party even though you arent a nazi will give the party one more person to count under its ranks. im high, so i cant really explain better than that lol



> Obviously they did not teach all kids because I see a shit load of atheists around me all the time that are all for the big bang.


that is because they were not taught that god did it, which allowed them to accept the idea of the big bang. although you could believe in god creating the big bang, but thats not how it happens usually. some do though



> I'm not slowing anyone down when it comes to science so once again you're arguing with the wrong person.


while that may be true, you cant deny that others do in the name of religion. how many times have you heard politicians say theyre against same sex marriage because god says its bad(or something to that effect)?



> Eradicating religion won't do shit when it comes to the world working hand in hand in your perfect little world that has been corrupted due to religion alone.


it will take away the creationist museum, increase funding for science, and get religion out of politics. thats enough for me. it doesnt need to become heaven on earth or anything



> I claimed victory because no matter how you decide to attempt to eradicate religion you won't end my beliefs.


thats fine. i just expect you to back up your beliefs, and if you cant you will be called out for it. you dont get special privileges.



> Once again I have my own reasons to believe in god that don't concern you.


im gonna guess faith



> Anyway we are going around in circles so I'm not going to reply to your pointless questions. If you have a beneficial question then by all means ask it.


why do you consider my questions pointless?


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## Carne Seca (Sep 10, 2011)

The problem isn't religion. The problem is ideology. You can take any ideology and make fanatics with it. Doesn't matter what it is. How many millions died with the implementation of Communism? MILLIONS. China, North Korea, Vietnam, Russia (and all the countries it gobbled up), Tibet, Most of central and south America (The Shining Path ring a bell?), Cambodia (the killing fields), etc. You can take any thought process and turn it into a weapon of mass destruction. 

Blame religion all you want but it's just a catalyst for power hungry men. Look at what's going on with America today and it's corporate takeover. It was implemented so a few could get rich off the backs of many. Millions are suffering. It all started with a scheme.


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 10, 2011)

It seems that this thread has changed from how do we end religion to "why do athiests amd agnostics dislike us religious folk?" I think its a hard thing for you guys (religious folk) to get your head around. Think of it this way, I used to go to college at FSU, Florida state... Its a big football college, and during big games as many as 100,000 EXTRA people would come to Tallahassee for the games. The town would be filled with people, packed. It was a lot of fun deffinately, but also, parties get destructive, traffic is longer, the town gets trashed, lots of fights, drunk driving accidents, blah blah blah. So, id you are a person who hates football, and doesnt like to party, you might have seen this all with a view like, "you come to our town, the place is trashed, my friend got beat up, there was a car accidnt down the road, and a couple peole probably died of alcohol poisoning! And all for what, some stupid fucking game?!?" 

In this example, we agnostics and athiests are the non partiers who dont like football, you religious people are the drunken sports fans who piss all over the town and fuck it all up for the rest of us. And all for what, some STUPID FUCKING STORIES?!? You see?

Thats how I view it at least, you bring detriment to the progress and security that the responsible ones of us are trying to create and ensure, and you do it all so noisilly. No one would have a problem with your religion if it were capable of genuinely not impacting the rest of us.


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## Carne Seca (Sep 10, 2011)

That is a terrible analogy. It makes absolutely no sense. Did you even bother to read my previous post?

I can turn it around and use Communism as the "drunk football fans."


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## Luger187 (Sep 10, 2011)

Carne Seca said:


> That is a terrible analogy. It makes absolutely no sense. Did you even bother to read my previous post?
> 
> I can turn it around and use Communism as the "drunk football fans."


isnt that why we tend to see communism as bad? we have been shown the negatives of it get out of hand.


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## bud nugbong (Sep 10, 2011)

i thought it was a good analogy. if you wanna belive then belive, but why try and convert other people and change other peoples lives. and rape children


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## Carne Seca (Sep 10, 2011)

You think Christians cornered the market on child rape? It's rampant in all societies and ideologies. That's people. It's always just people. The dogma doesn't matter because you can take any ideology and twist it to fit an agenda. I have never tried to convert anyone. I'm a firm believer in free agency. And Luger I agree that true communism is a wonderful ideal but look what happens when it's in place. Corruption.


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 10, 2011)

Carne Seca said:


> That is a terrible analogy. It makes absolutely no sense. Did you even bother to read my previous post?
> 
> I can turn it around and use Communism as the "drunk football fans."



Well I didnt ask you to AGREE with the analogy, and its cool if you dont, I'm just trying to tell you how some of us see it and why we dont like the religious. Disagreement is irrelivant because our view, unlike yours, doesnt require others to agree. Considering the while world hates y'all, maybe you shoukd try to understand WHY


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## grizlbr (Sep 10, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I Believe in god and Jesus for his moral teachings. I don't follow other gods because I don't agree with them. First off I "worship" him alone and don't go to church because those people are usually hypocrites when it comes to their own beliefs. Anyway why should they stop building places of worship? Does it offend you when you see a building of worship? Either way they shouldn't care what you think of their building because they have the right to follow their beliefs. I don't indoctrinate children nor do I agree with it, but it's their child and you are in no place to tell people how to raise their children. Instead of getting mad at people for indoctrinating their own children why don't you go get mad at abortion, child labor, pedophiles, and just bad parenting? I don't see Religious people turning people's houses into places of worship nor do I see people indoctrinating atheists kids who's parents do not allow indoctrinating. So they leave you alone so why don't you leave us alone. Maybe when you stick to your own beliefs then we can call a truce.


 "That all might come to the knowledge of the truth." You understand in your spirit unless you claim not to have one.


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## grizlbr (Sep 10, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Well I didnt ask you to AGREE with the analogy, and its cool if you dont, I'm just trying to tell you how some of us see it and why we dont like the religious. Disagreement is irrelivant because our view, unlike yours, doesnt require others to agree. Considering the while world hates y'all, maybe you shoukd try to understand WHY


 As stated you do not have to agree BUT if We are correct and there is a judgement what will you be judged on "your works"?
Or that every word was recorded?


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 10, 2011)

grizlbr said:


> As stated you do not have to agree BUT if We are correct and there is a judgement what will you be judged on "your works"?
> Or that every word was recorded?


See, thats what I mean, our beliefe doesnt require that you believe it. You say yours doesnt either, but thats a lie. You believe that if we dont agree with you we will burn in fire forever. Sounds to me like you think we have to believe it. and we all know this too, that all you religious people look at us and judge us that we are wrong, that we'll burn in hell forever. If you disagree with mine, unlike you I dont damn you for all eternity, I just look down on you. The thing Ir find wierd about you guys is you make the jump from believing there is a god to all these other things, like we KNOW what god is, that jesus is tje sun of god (ha), that he was born a virgin (hahahaha), that he wasnt murdered by romans but voluntarilly died for OUR "sins" and that god has a bunch of rules for your life. Its so unrealistic, this god of yours. &nd he must be a racist too the way he decides to treat white people so damn well. Whatever...


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## XxM1k3YxX (Sep 11, 2011)

?What is religion when I can smoke, and enjoy my company as long as I'm not told what to do I'm fine with tht. and yes I did have a small issue with school :]


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## XxM1k3YxX (Sep 11, 2011)

Should all just learn to Co exist. Shouldn't be fighting each other, should be fighting that damn Government..


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 11, 2011)

Here I posted this on another thread but feel it would fit better on this thread.

everything has the potential to cause a negative impact. some examples:
Music- it can cause depression or influence people into acting in a negative way.
Movies- has the same potential as music.
School- a kid may be bullied and shoot up the place.
Those are just from the top of my head, my point is that it can be beneficial but it depends on how you use it. People don't want to eradicate music, movies, or school just because of the negative impact it can have on a person. So IMO religion shouldn't be hated to this degree either unless you want to start making threads to get rid of everything else in this world that has the potential to cause negativity.


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## Luger187 (Sep 11, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Here I posted this on another thread but feel it would fit better on this thread.
> 
> everything has the potential to cause a negative impact. some examples:
> Music- it can cause depression or influence people into acting in a negative way.
> ...


people dont kill eachother because someone likes a different kind of music. music doesnt hinder a persons education like religion can. i guess if you listened to music that told you that you suck all the time you might get depressed(though in this case, other factors are probably there). but usually music is uplifting for me and takes me out of depression. thats because people listen to music they enjoy.
can you tell me a negative impact of music?

movies can affect young people if it is too violent or sexual for their age. other than that, i dont see it affecting people much. ive never been depressed by a movie and they dont make people go out and do bad things. its just entertainment and people know that its not real.
can you tell me a negative impact of movies?

a child shooting up the place because he was bullied wasnt something caused by the school. the bully caused it, and the kid either didnt tell anyone or didnt get help. then he loses control and makes a drastic decision to kill everyone. kids make stupid decision, especially when under stress like that.
our society would crumble if we had no schools. it is necessary for a society to run efficiently.


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## munch box (Sep 11, 2011)

Religion is not going anywhere! Its always been a part of humanity, and always will be. There is nothing anybody can do to change that. Without freedom of religion, there would most likely be no freedom at all.

vot Ron Paul wants freedom 2012!


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 11, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> people dont kill eachother because someone likes a different kind of music. music doesnt hinder a persons education like religion can. i guess if you listened to music that told you that you suck all the time you might get depressed(though in this case, other factors are probably there). but usually music is uplifting for me and takes me out of depression. thats because people listen to music they enjoy.
> can you tell me a negative impact of music?
> 
> movies can affect young people if it is too violent or sexual for their age. other than that, i dont see it affecting people much. ive never been depressed by a movie and they dont make people go out and do bad things. its just entertainment and people know that its not real.
> ...


 Exactly. If someone goes crazy from a song, movie, or bullying there is something else wrong with that person and either the music, movie, or bullying set him off. Much like religious nutjobs. If someone kills someone else because that person doesn't believe in their belief then there is something else wrong with that person.
What my previous post was saying is that many things have the POTENTIAL to directly affect a Person in a negative manner. I'm not gonna lie and say religion doesn't have that potential, but I will say that it's not religions fault that some people become crazed and use their religion to justify their actions. But if atheists want to get rid of religion so bad then make it fair and get rid of everything that has a negative impact on a person.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 12, 2011)

This dudes aint never gonna listen heph and will always ignore valid points or misunderstand them purposely.

Fuuny thing is that most other atheists dont think like these dudes do, they actually hate atheists like these guys, they too see their hypocrisy



Hepheastus420 said:


> Exactly. If someone goes crazy from a song, movie, or bullying there is something else wrong with that person and either the music, movie, or bullying set him off. Much like religious nutjobs. If someone kills someone else because that person doesn't believe in their belief then there is something else wrong with that person.
> What my previous post was saying is that many things have the POTENTIAL to directly affect a Person in a negative manner. I'm not gonna lie and say religion doesn't have that potential, but I will say that it's not religions fault that some people become crazed and use their religion to justify their actions. But if atheists want to get rid of religion so bad then make it fair and get rid of everything that has a negative impact on a person.


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## Zaehet Strife (Sep 12, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> In simple terms, the answer is education and promotion of critical thinking. With this approach not only can we eliminate the potential evil inherit to dogmatic religion, we can also preserve the benefits, such as hope, humanistic pride, and inspiration. The goal is not to eradicate the idea of god, but dogmatic adherence to certainty in God.


you tell them bro, these fools who refuse to accept their ignorance in the face of their fears


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 12, 2011)

Zaehet Strife said:


> you tell them bro, these fools who refuse to accept their ignorance in the face of their fears


First may I ask if this question was aimed towards me too? And if it is can you tell me what my fears are?


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## Heisenberg (Sep 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> First may I ask if this question was aimed towards me too? And if it is can you tell me what my fears are?


You can answer this better than he. He was referring to fools who choose ignorance for the sake of fear. Does this apply to you? If so, what are your fears? Don't mean to imply anything, I don't know you well enough to say, thus the reason for questioning.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 12, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> You can answer this better than he. He was referring to fools who choose ignorance for the sake of fear. Does this apply to you? If so, what are your fears? Don't mean to imply anything, I don't know you well enough to say, thus the reason for questioning.


That's the thing I have no fears. If you translate the first bible you do not come out with the definition of hell many organized "Christian" religions use to scare people into following their religion. Instead what you come out with is the word sheol which means grave in English. So that means (IMO) that if we do not get to go to heaven we simply become worm food and continue the beautiful circle of life. So really I have no fears, after death I only have to look forward to giving someone else or another animal the opportunity of life or hopefully go up to heaven. So back to zach why do you call me a fool and say I can't face my ignorance due to these fears that I do not have?


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## Luger187 (Sep 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Exactly. If someone goes crazy from a song, movie, or bullying there is something else wrong with that person and either the music, movie, or bullying set him off. Much like religious nutjobs. If someone kills someone else because that person doesn't believe in their belief then there is something else wrong with that person.
> What my previous post was saying is that many things have the POTENTIAL to directly affect a Person in a negative manner. I'm not gonna lie and say religion doesn't have that potential, but I will say that it's not religions fault that some people become crazed and use their religion to justify their actions. But if atheists want to get rid of religion so bad then make it fair and get rid of everything that has a negative impact on a person.


how do you not see that people use the words of their holy book do justify their actions? its not because theyre crazy(some might be though). its because their god is telling them that others are not good, and they believe it. thats it. it can happen to completely normal people, and does all the time. look at afghanistan. you think those people would blow themselves up if they didnt believe they would go to heaven for killing the infidels? they have no problem volunteering because they believe their god is on their side. whether he is or not doesnt really matter, because the guy believes it and is going to blow himself up anyways.
people dont believe in music, movies, or bullying like they do religion. people dont take music so seriously that they go out and kill people. and if they do, they also have other problems, like at home or at school. you cant say its the musics fault because there are a lot of other factors in the equation. but religion itself is definitely a catalyst for negative things, because its teachings can be interpreted countless ways, and their followers believe the creator of the universe is the one teaching them. that is a problem because the people will totally follow anything that creator tells them.
religion has much more than potential to affect a person in a negative manner. how many people have visited the creationist museum? probably at least 90% of the people that go there believe its fact, and the rest are there to laugh at it. how many people believe intelligent design is a legitimate science? how many people vote based on their religious affiliation? how many research funding dollars have gone to something else because conservative politicians need votes? how many religious people REFUSE to question their own beliefs, and DENY any evidence shown to them, for the sake of saving face? how many musical artists do these things to people? what about movies?


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## Luger187 (Sep 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> That's the thing I have no fears. If you translate the first bible you do not come out with the definition of hell many organized "Christian" religions use to scare people into following their religion. Instead what you come out with is the word sheol which means grave in English. So that means (IMO) that if we do not get to go to heaven we simply become worm food and continue the beautiful circle of life. So really I have no fears, after death I only have to look forward to giving someone else or another animal the opportunity of life or hopefully go up to heaven. So back to zach why do you call me a fool and say I can't face my ignorance due to these fears that I do not have?


so basically its a win-win situation for you? if you are good enough, you get to go to heaven. but if you arent, you just rot in the ground? that sure sounds nice, but is it true? if you rely on faith, i guess so
question - why do you think you will/can go to heaven?


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## olylifter420 (Sep 12, 2011)

Because we will and have repented and asked for forgiveness from God.

Why will you not get into Heaven?





Luger187 said:


> so basically its a win-win situation for you? if you are good enough, you get to go to heaven. but if you arent, you just rot in the ground? that sure sounds nice, but is it true? if you rely on faith, i guess so
> question - why do you think you will/can go to heaven?


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## Luger187 (Sep 12, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> Because we will and have repented and asked for forgiveness from God.
> 
> Why will you not get into Heaven?


because it doesnt exist and we have absolutely no reason to believe it does. its just comforting for people to believe, so they do. thats the only reason it is in the bible.

also why would god care about you? doesnt he have all the other shit in the universe to take care of?


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 12, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> because it doesnt exist and we have absolutely no reason to believe it does. its just comforting for people to believe, so they do. thats the only reason it is in the bible.
> 
> also why would god care about you? doesnt he have all the other shit in the universe to take care of?


At one moment you can't say but he doesn't exist and then at the next say but if he did. Anyway once again how is it comforting?


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## olylifter420 (Sep 12, 2011)

I make time to give grace and appreciation to God, why else does He care about me. You must make time for Him, if not you will wonder off the path as you have demonstrated already.


Why doesnt it exist to you?





Luger187 said:


> because it doesnt exist and we have absolutely no reason to believe it does. its just comforting for people to believe, so they do. thats the only reason it is in the bible.
> 
> also why would god care about you? doesnt he have all the other shit in the universe to take care of?


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## Farfenugen (Sep 12, 2011)

When (organised) religion is no more in our society then I see that society becoming more stronger, intelligent, reasoning, compassionate and above all common sense minded.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 12, 2011)

Farfenugen said:


> When (organised) religion is no more in our society then I see that society becoming more stronger, intelligent, reasoning, compassionate and above all common sense minded.


When I see religion eradicated from our society I see it as the same it is today. But hey what do I know? Maybe the world will be a perfect place where people can run in fields while holding hands in the cool air.


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## fireproof (Sep 12, 2011)

The same way Hitler "eradicated" the Jews...

Seriously though, live and let live.


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 12, 2011)

Oh my goodness... This is rediculous. FIRST one reason we dislike the religious is because they push themselves where they arent wanted. Take this thread for example, we wanted to dis,uss how to get rid of you guys, the religious. This wasnt an in invitation for a bunch of christians to come in and explain to us why we should like you. Know where you arent wanted. We have the debate going now so I guess its tooo late, but you guys totally misdirected this thread.

SECONDLY the idea of heaven is comforting in the very least because its an answer. Uncertainty is much more difficult than even a wrong answer. Thats why when someone is hysterical you tell them any thing to calm them down, something like "dont worry little girl, your parents died but they are in a better place now, a perfect place...blah blah blah."

Thirdly, do you really think that our current world resembles one that is free of religion? You dont think it would be a different world without you guys, one where we can study stem cells, not harrass women who decide to terminate pregnanies, not carry a rediculous stance in the middle east so as to fulfill biblical rapture prophecies, a world where africa isnt as fucked by aids because the fucking pope said rubbers are illegal, a.world where perverts and child mollesters have one less place to hide, a world without religiously instigated war. Hows this sound, go to fucking jerusalem or beirut and explain to the people there how their world would be completely the same without religion. This is ludicrous.

On a psychological level, there is an inability amongst the religious to accept falsities because the implications it would have on how they lived their life would be too severe. Thats why so often information hits their head and bounces right off, because the implications are so severe.that it is infinitely easier to not recognize it. .Of all the negative things going on in the world, so many of them are due to religion. It is the bane of our existance. Somone befor mentioned that if we got rid of religion it would be like china...an d while china is pretty lame on multiple levela, they are seeing some of the most amazing growths in history. Why? Because they got fucking realistic... Why dont y'all?


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## Luger187 (Sep 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> At one moment you can't say but he doesn't exist and then at the next say but if he did. Anyway once again how is it comforting?


why cant i? its just a hypothetical
heaven is comforting because you feel that life doesnt end after death. you think you will continue on in the afterlife in heaven. this can be comforting if you are miserable or just dont feel good. or if you are on your deathbed, you dont get scared because its not the end



olylifter420 said:


> I make time to give grace and appreciation to God, why else does He care about me. You must make time for Him, if not you will wonder off the path as you have demonstrated already.
> 
> 
> Why doesnt it exist to you?


yes i know you think that your actions can be seen by god. what im saying is why would he care? its like bacteria in a petri dish, except on a MUCH smaller scale. 
what gives you the idea that he is doing this? what tells you that he is watching over us? what makes it true to you?

god doesnt exist to me because the universe gives me no reason to believe he does. sure the universe is an amazing place with lots of mystery, and we dont have all the answers. but that doesnt mean its okay to just make up some bullshit about how theres this god that somehow created the universe and he cares about *YOU* specifically. aww thats nice, i bet it makes you feel warm. its all fake nonsense that uses human emotion and lack of understanding to keep people in.

the only thing the religious have to defend their beliefs is their holy books, which is just sad to me, really. theres no reason to believe what that book says is true(with the exception of the people and names of towns but thats not really evidence of anything other than humans wrote it), but they believe it anyways. you can also see humanistic qualities all over the bible. god is angry, vengeful, giving, a bully, plays tricks on people for no real purpose, etc.

im gonna post this again. you have to refute all this scientific data with legitimate evidence. good luck oly  let me know when you have your evidence compiled together
[video=youtube;uyCkADmNdNo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyCkADmNdNo[/video]


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## bud nugbong (Sep 12, 2011)

i get mad religous when i hear 'jesus walks' by kanye...and thats about it lol.


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## Luger187 (Sep 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> At one moment you can't say but he doesn't exist and then at the next say but if he did. Anyway once again how is it comforting?





Filthy Phil said:


> Oh my goodness... This is rediculous. FIRST one reason we dislike the religious is because they push themselves where they arent wanted. Take this thread for example, we wanted to dis,uss how to get rid of you guys, the religious. This wasnt an in invitation for a bunch of christians to come in and explain to us why we should like you. Know where you arent wanted. We have the debate going now so I guess its tooo late, but you guys totally misdirected this thread.
> 
> SECONDLY the idea of heaven is comforting in the very least because its an answer. Uncertainty is much more difficult than even a wrong answer. Thats why when someone is hysterical you tell them any thing to calm them down, something like "dont worry little girl, your parents died but they are in a better place now, a perfect place...blah blah blah."
> 
> ...


aww man i forgot to add the whole isreal and biblical apocalypse thing to my list earlier. thats another HUGE issue in the world that would not exist if it werent for religion. the palestine/isreal/pakistan situation is crazy. now pakistan is building a bunch of nuclear weapons with our money. oh joy!


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 12, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> why cant i? its just a hypothetical
> heaven is comforting because you feel that life doesnt end after death. you think you will continue on in the afterlife in heaven. this can be comforting if you are miserable or just dont feel good. or if you are on your deathbed, you dont get scared because its not the end
> 
> 
> ...




That was sweeet! You know how sometimes you have a feeling that can be difficult to decribe adequately, and then someone says it pretty much perfectly 
Yeah, that just happened.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 12, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> why cant i? its just a hypothetical
> heaven is comforting because you feel that life doesnt end after death. you think you will continue on in the afterlife in heaven. this can be comforting if you are miserable or just dont feel good. or if you are on your deathbed, you dont get scared because its not the end
> 
> 
> ...


 IMO you make it seem that just because we believe in god we must be inferior to you. Go smoke a bowl and chill out. Besides we don't have to prove anything to you. It's up to you if you want to believe or not. You chose not to believe so just leave it at that. Once again we don't claim that we have evidence. You can say we don't think rationally when it comes to religion, but honestly we don't care. Anyway you can't act like you know how the world workms when you don't have any idea how the first matter was created. But if you want to ask us for evidence then we should ask you for evidence. So then Luger, let me know when you have your evidence compiled together.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 12, 2011)

i would have to agree with you bro. it is funny when i ask them for some evidence or what they think of major atheists within our history and all they do is ignore it or say something stupid...

I have known since the first time i engaged with these type of atheist, notice how i say these atheists', as most other atheists out there hate these type of atheists, just as some religions hate other religions, so atheism is a form of religion... they have the same demeanor and agenda that other hatred driven "religious nut jobs" have, although they will ignore that fact by saying that "they are men of science and nothing more". I mean like, does no one else see their hypocrisy?








Hepheastus420 said:


> IMO you make it seem that just because we believe in god we must be inferior to you. Go smoke a bowl and chill out. Besides we don't have to prove anything to you. It's up to you if you want to believe or not. You chose not to believe so just leave it at that. Once again we don't claim that we have evidence. You can say we don't think rationally when it comes to religion, but honestly we don't care. Anyway you can't act like you know how the world workms when you don't have any idea how the first matter was created. But if you want to ask us for evidence then we should ask you for evidence. So then Luger, let me know when you have your evidence compiled together.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 12, 2011)

you are the bullfrog of this video,

[video=youtube;DXHaCEhOiWU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXHaCEhOiWU[/video]






Filthy Phil said:


> That was sweeet! You know how sometimes you have a feeling that can be difficult to decribe adequately, and then someone says it pretty much perfectly
> Yeah, that just happened.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 12, 2011)

hey hep, check this out, funny how these guys use jim jones for example of religious "nut job" when he himself was an atheist, and check this list out..

please, luger, when you offer the evidence to justify these peoples actions, i will answer anything you want the way you want it,


Alfred Kinsey


Alfred Kinsey was an infamous American biologist and professor of entomology and zoology, who made groundbreaking research on human sexuality. Undoubtedly, he helped to progress social values &#8211; but, nevertheless, he took sadistic pleasure out of his research, and did some very weird stuff, including exploiting children for sex. Moreover, much of his research was fraud.


9
Napoleon Bonaparte


Many people agree that Napoleon Bonaparte, heavily involved in the anti-clerical French Revolution, was atheist &#8211; he claimed that &#8220;all religions have been made by men&#8221;. He was one of the best ever military commanders, and conquered much of Europe. He staged a coup and declared himself Emperor. While he ended anarchy in post-Revolution France, many considered him a tyrant and usurper. He ignored treaties and conventions, seeking undisputed rule throughout Europe. He plundered conquered territories. His 17 years of rule resulted in the bankruptcy of France, loss of many of her territories, six million dead Europeans and economic setback in just one generation.


8
Than Shwe


Than Shwe is the 77 year old dictator of Myanmar/Burma, the head of the ruling military junta. He has overseen the formation of one of the most closed societies in the world. There is no notion of free press, and journalists who opposed his regime are detained. Aung Suu Kyi, the leader of the main opposition party, is kept in house detention by him. Civil servants are forbidden from resigning. Burma has the highest rate of child soldiers in the world, and uses forced labor on construction projects. As far as dictators go, Than Shwe keeps a relatively low, and even sullen, profile. Nevertheless, he reportedly leads an extravagant lifestyle, while his people continue to suffer a life of extreme poverty and natural disasters. In the aftermath of Cyclone Nargis, he refused entry into the country for many foreign aid organizations.


7
Kim Jong Il


Kim Jong-Il is the de facto leader of the Democratic People&#8217;s Republic of Korea, and responsible for the deaths of four million of his fellow Koreans. He is also at the heart of a bizarre personality cult; apocryphal stories such as how &#8220;at the time of his birth there were flashes of lightening and thunder, the iceberg in the pond on Mt. Paektu emitted a mysterious sound as it broke, and bright double rainbows rose up&#8221; are abundant. Those caught stealing food in the famine-struck nation, or attempting to cross the borders, are subject to public execution. Kim is continuing his lavish lifestyle and military obsession in spite of the crumbling economy. In North Korea he and his father are deified, considered saviors of the whole universe. 250,000 dissidents are confined to &#8220;re-education camps&#8221;. He has waged a war on South Korea that involved assassinating South Korean leaders and blowing up South Korean planes. He presents a great threat to the world in terms of nuclear warfare, having persuaded the Soviet Union to award him a nuclear reactor in 1984.


6
Jeffrey Dahmer


Jeffrey Dahmer, an infamous serial killer and atheist sentenced to 900 years in prison, said &#8220;if a person doesn&#8217;t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what&#8217;s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?&#8221;. He brutally killed seventeen men and boys, dismembering them, storing their parts and indulging in cannibalism and necrophilia. In 1991, he was caught by the police after one of his would-be victims escaped. Despite pleading not guilty on the basis on insanity, the court found him sane and fully accountable. He later expressed remorse.







5
Jim Jones


Jim Jones drew people into atheism through the People&#8217;s Temple, largely based in California. He said that he &#8220;took the church and used the church to bring people to atheism&#8221;. In 1978, 909 people at the restricted communist &#8220;sanctuary&#8221; he presided over in Jonestown, Guyana, committed &#8220;revolutionary suicide&#8221; at his command. This occurred after the arrival of an American delegation, which he claimed was conspiring against the People&#8217;s Temple. Men, women and children took a vial of cyanide and died within five minutes. Only a few people escaped. This event was the largest single loss of American civilian life, in a non-natural disaster, up until 9/11. This entry has the unique status of being on both the atheism and Christianity list. The reason is that the majority of people considered Jones to be the leader of a type of Christian cult, but, as the quote above illustrates, it was really a ruse to attract people who would otherwise have steered well clear of him.


4
Benito Mussolini


Mussolini is notorious for his war crimes as a Fascist dictator during World War II. As a young man he openly declared his atheism, and in his early career as a politician was openly anti-clerical. He was the Italian leader of the National Fascist Party, became Prime Minister in 1922 and was eventually a dictator who severely restricted freedom of speech. Mussolini supported Hitler&#8217;s conquest of Austria. In 1935, he invaded Ethiopia, using poison gas, bombing Red Cross hospitals and concentration camps to kill civilians and destroy &#8220;inferior&#8221; cultures. He ordered the execution of prisoners without trial and the shooting of &#8220;witch-doctors&#8221;. Italian troops used public executions, hostage taking and burning of villages to crush the Slavic population of Yugoslavia. These acts are now widely considered an attempt at genocide. However, later he tried to associate Fascism with Catholicism in order to garner dwindling support (however his widow made it clear that he was still staunchly atheist). Mussolini was also deeply anti-Semitic.


3
Mao Zedong


Mao Zedong led the Communist Party of China to victory in the Chinese Civil War, helping to establish the People&#8217;s Republic of China. He had ambitions for a strong China, but his programs largely failed altogether. He has been blamed for the death of between 20 and 67 million of his &#8220;comrades&#8221;. Under his insane rule there was a culture akin to anarchy, that killed the economy and industrial production. His &#8220;Great Leap Forward&#8221; triggered a catastrophic and massive famine. However, he is most notorious for the precepts of the &#8220;Cultural Revolution&#8221;, which led to perhaps the greatest era of cultural vandalism the world has ever known. Antiques, historical sites, artifacts, ancient documents, feng shui traditions, Chinese traditional dresses and monasteries were destroyed for being associated with the &#8220;old ways of thinking&#8221;. Many copies of the Qu&#8217;ran were burnt. Red Guard groups around the country destroyed political and educational stability, criticizing anyone who considered himself superior, destroying reputations and lives. Mao, privately, led a life of great deviancy and excess. He also exacted revenge on all those, mainly intellectuals and professionals, who had disgraced Mao in his earlier career. He also targeted anyone with links to the Chinese Nationalist Party as well as anyone who posed a threat to him. Five million were executed in death camps. 36 million were persecuted and tortured. There were even instances of cannibalism.


2
Pol Pot


Pol Pot was the leader of the Khmer Rouge and Prime Minister of Cambodia from 1976 to 1979, having been de facto leader since mid-1975. During his time in power Pol Pot imposed an extreme version of agrarian communism, where all city dwellers were relocated to the countryside to work in collective farms and forced labour projects. The combined effect of slave labour, malnutrition, poor medical care and executions is estimated to have killed around 2 million Cambodians (approximately one third of the population). His regime achieved special notoriety by singling out all intellectuals, and other &#8220;bourgeois enemies&#8221;, for murder. The Khmer Rouge committed mass executions in sites known as the Killing Fields, and the executed were buried in mass graves. In order to save ammunition, executions were often carried out using hammers, axe handles, spades or sharpened bamboo sticks. His attempts to &#8220;cleanse&#8221; the country resulted in the deaths of 1.7 to 2.5 million people. He also had an intense dislike of anyone with the semblance of being intelligent, such as those who wore glasses or who spoke another language.


1
Joseph Stalin


Stalin was General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union&#8217;s Central Committee, from 1922 until his death in 1953. Under Stalin&#8217;s leadership, the Ukraine suffered a famine (Holodomor) so great it is considered by many to be an act of genocide on the part of Stalin&#8217;s government. Estimates of the number of deaths range from 2.5 million to 10 million. The famine was caused by direct political and administrative decisions. In addition to the famine, Stalin ordered purges within the Soviet Union of any person deemed to be an enemy of the state (i.e. capitalists, theists). In total, estimates of the total number murdered under Stalin&#8217;s reign, range from 10 million to 60 million. His government promoted atheism with mass propaganda in school, and held a terror campaign against the religious. He crushed the Russian Orthodox Church, leveling thousands of churches and shooting more than 100,000 priests, monks and nuns between 1937 and 1938.

N.B. Adolf Hitler is left off this list because it is widely acknowledged that, while he abhorred organized religion, there is much evidence that he engaged in &#8220;nazi mysticism&#8221; or occultism.


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## mexiblunt (Sep 12, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> i would have to agree with you bro. it is funny when i ask them for some evidence or what they think of major atheists within our history and all they do is ignore it or say something stupid...
> 
> I have known since the first time i engaged with these type of atheist, notice how i say these atheists', as most other atheists out there hate these type of atheists, just as some religions hate other religions, so atheism is a form of religion... they have the same demeanor and agenda that other hatred driven "religious nut jobs" have, although they will ignore that fact by saying that "they are men of science and nothing more". I mean like, does no one else see their hypocrisy?


What do you need evidence for? Unless your questioning your own beliefs, which is perfectly understandable. Your beliefs by thier very nature don't require any evidence. Let alone evidence for something you don't believe in. I don't believe in hoaxed moon landings, therefore I defenitly don't go to moon landing conspiracy forums and participate in how to eradicate the belief that we landed on the moon threads. Why would I waste a min of my life on something I don't believe?


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## mexiblunt (Sep 12, 2011)

It is funny huh. Seems without christian followers Jim jones would have been nothing. Why because they had faith and did not ask for evidence.

Jim Jones


Jim Jones drew people into atheism through the People&#8217;s Temple, largely based in California. He said that he &#8220;took the church and used the church to bring people to atheism&#8221;. In 1978, 909 people at the restricted communist &#8220;sanctuary&#8221; he presided over in Jonestown, Guyana, committed &#8220;revolutionary suicide&#8221; at his command. This occurred after the arrival of an American delegation, which he claimed was conspiring against the People&#8217;s Temple. Men, women and children took a vial of cyanide and died within five minutes. Only a few people escaped. This event was the largest single loss of American civilian life, in a non-natural disaster, up until 9/11. This entry has the unique status of being on both the atheism and Christianity list. The reason is that the majority of people considered Jones to be the leader of a type of Christian cult, but, as the quote above illustrates, it was really a ruse to attract people who would otherwise have steered well clear of him.

If religion did not exist. the likes ofstalin wouldn't have even been able to think about killing thiests.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 12, 2011)

That answer doesnt cut it, sorry.

I have seen it plenty of times already, you have to do better


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## Luger187 (Sep 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> IMO you make it seem that just because we believe in god we must be inferior to you. Go smoke a bowl and chill out. Besides we don't have to prove anything to you. It's up to you if you want to believe or not. You chose not to believe so just leave it at that. Once again we don't claim that we have evidence. You can say we don't think rationally when it comes to religion, but honestly we don't care. Anyway you can't act like you know how the world workms when you don't have any idea how the first matter was created. But if you want to ask us for evidence then we should ask you for evidence. So then Luger, let me know when you have your evidence compiled together.


i believe you have to at least try to prove it to us. your religion affects my life in many ways. i think since it affects me, i should at least be shown a reason why you believe. and if you have no evidence on your side, your religion shouldnt have the power it does.
you dont know how the first matter was created either, but you believe you know what happened before. god did it. i want to know why you believe that. is that so hard? how many times have i asked and you scapegoat it every time? 
i dont claim to know how matter was created, or how the universe was created, so i dont have to prove anything. you are the one making the claims that affect my life, and i think i deserve an answer at least. once again, it is the one making the claim who must provide evidence...

i dont understand why this is so hard for you to understand. im not attacking you. i am simply asking for SOMETHING, but you seem to not have any. and i dont understand how someone can openly say they have zero evidence or anything at all to support their side, yet still defend it like it is your life. it is all based on faith, but you dont even have a reason for why you have faith. do you see the problem here?


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## olylifter420 (Sep 12, 2011)

I see now how many deaths have been caused by atheistic beliefs and believe there have been more deaths by the hands of atheists then religious nut jobs.

Oh how the tables turn, dont i say the darndest things


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## olylifter420 (Sep 12, 2011)

I see now how many deaths have been caused by atheistic beliefs and believe there have been more deaths by the hands of atheists then religious nut jobs.

Oh how the tables turn, dont i say the darndest things


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## Luger187 (Sep 12, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> most other atheists out there hate these type of atheists, just as some religions hate other religions, so atheism is a form of religion.


thanks for the sig


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## mexiblunt (Sep 12, 2011)

You clearly still do not even know what athiest means.


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## Luger187 (Sep 12, 2011)

why does oly think atheism is a belief system?


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 12, 2011)

Ok...am I wrong in assuming there is a huge difference is saying ,"there is a god that created" and saying "god is christian" its interesting how you say "evolution is wrong, so is the big bang theory...thus...jesus is the son of god" I dont see the logical link. Just simply saying there is a god is in no way saying that god is christian or muslim... You negate the big bang....for what? how would that establish that yoi are correct? Its like playing raquetball with you guys, logic being the ball... And your mind is the wall....i guess it doesnt really matter how hard we throw some logic your way, your brains are as thick as walls...


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## mexiblunt (Sep 12, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> why does oly think atheism is a belief system?


This should be the new "oly says the darndest things" And on that note I think I'm done with oly. aside from using that line. 
Like mother terresa once said. *"*I was once asked why I don't participate in anti-war demonstrations. I said that I will never do that, but as soon as you have a pro-peace rally, I'll be there.*"* _- Mother Teresa_


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 12, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Ok...am I wrong in assuming there is a huge difference is saying ,"there is a god that created" and saying "god is christian" its interesting how you say "evolution is wrong, so is the big bang theory...thus...jesus is the son of god" I dont see the logical link. Just simply saying there is a god is in no way saying that god is christian or muslim... You negate the big bang....for what? how would that establish that yoi are correct? Its like playing raquetball with you guys, logic being the ball... And your mind is the wall....i guess it doesnt really matter how hard we throw some logic your way, your brains are as thick as walls...


Who said we don't believe in science?


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## Luger187 (Sep 12, 2011)

[video=youtube;qmU5fpVkUQs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmU5fpVkUQs[/video]


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 12, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> i believe you have to at least try to prove it to us. your religion affects my life in many ways. i think since it affects me, i should at least be shown a reason why you believe. and if you have no evidence on your side, your religion shouldnt have the power it does.
> you dont know how the first matter was created either, but you believe you know what happened before. god did it. i want to know why you believe that. is that so hard? how many times have i asked and you scapegoat it every time?
> i dont claim to know how matter was created, or how the universe was created, so i dont have to prove anything. you are the one making the claims that affect my life, and i think i deserve an answer at least. once again, it is the one making the claim who must provide evidence...
> 
> i dont understand why this is so hard for you to understand. im not attacking you. i am simply asking for SOMETHING, but you seem to not have any. and i dont understand how someone can openly say they have zero evidence or anything at all to support their side, yet still defend it like it is your life. it is all based on faith, but you dont even have a reason for why you have faith. do you see the problem here?


why is it that you can't understand me when I say over and over that I have no evidence nor can I prove anything. So if neither of us fan prove anything then we are arguing for fucking nothing, get what I'm saying? Damn we are going in circles. Ugh I need another bowl.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 12, 2011)

does it not have followers like religion? Do people not kill because of their atheist beliefs?

I know what atheism is you dunce, but you all do not know what believers are either.

Im glad you can keep playing your gay games by using "sigs!" that is really gay, oh wait, you are gay, sorry... that must mean all gays are atheist, therefore share the hatred you do.






Luger187 said:


> why does oly think atheism is a belief system?


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## olylifter420 (Sep 12, 2011)

these dudes play the merry go round quite well dont they? 

never understanding what the other side is saying, but always enforcing their beliefs on us... 

fucking hypocrite assholes if you ask me...

funny how they have not said anything about all those killers and murderers i posted that are atheist





Hepheastus420 said:


> why is it that you can't understand me when I say over and over that I have no evidence nor can I prove anything. So if neither of us fan prove anything then we are arguing for fucking nothing, get what I'm saying? Damn we are going in circles. Ugh I need another bowl.


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## Underthelight (Sep 12, 2011)

We are all atheists in some form, the lack of believe is all atheism is. So as soon as you realized why you dismiss all other gods through out history other then whatever you may believe now, you will realize why I would dismiss yours.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 12, 2011)

why should we believe that idiot or you? what makes that idiot different from you?

nothing, both of you are idiots.






Luger187 said:


> [video=youtube;qmU5fpVkUQs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmU5fpVkUQs[/video]


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## olylifter420 (Sep 12, 2011)

> its interesting how you say "evolution is wrong,



who said evolution is wrong?




> , your brains are as thick as walls...



thats really funny.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 12, 2011)

just in case you guys missed it





olylifter420 said:


> hey hep, check this out, funny how these guys use jim jones for example of religious "nut job" when he himself was an atheist, and check this list out..
> 
> please, luger, when you offer the evidence to justify these peoples actions, i will answer anything you want the way you want it,
> 
> ...


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 12, 2011)

Underthelight said:


> We are all atheists in some form, the lack of believe is all atheism is. So as soon as you realized why you dismiss all other gods through out history other then whatever you may believe now, you will realize why I would dismiss yours.


The thing is we don't give a shit whether or not you have a religion. It's just annoying listening to some of these atheists bitch and complain about religion. 
Ps. Not a very warming invite, but welcome to RIU. (stranger danger)


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 12, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> just in case you guys missed it


I'm surprised they had nothing to say to that. I guess they jut don't wish to face the unfortunate truth.


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## Luger187 (Sep 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> why is it that you can't understand me when I say over and over that I have no evidence nor can I prove anything. So if neither of us fan prove anything then we are arguing for fucking nothing, get what I'm saying? Damn we are going in circles. Ugh I need another bowl.


if you have nothing, why do you believe it? why is it such a big fucking deal in your life if there is no real reason to believe it? why waste your time on a total guess?
i understand what you are saying. but i dont feel that we are arguing over nothing. the religion you subscribe to affects my life, and i would like to just know why people like you(no offense) believe. you are making extraordinary claims(god definitely exists and created the universe and jesus was a real prophet) that you say has no evidence at all, yet still whole-heartedly believe in it. WHY?! how do you not see that you are apparently believing in your religion for no reason at all? you see other religions as not true because they have nothing to stand on. whats different about christianity?

i dont mean for this to sound like an attack. i really am curious how this kind of thing happens and why


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## mexiblunt (Sep 12, 2011)

Underthelight said:


> We are all atheists in some form, the lack of believe is all atheism is. So as soon as you realized why you dismiss all other gods through out history other then whatever you may believe now, you will realize why I would dismiss yours.


Welcome to rollitup! This is not correct but I hear what ur saying. It is only correct if the "whatever you believe now part has no deities".


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 12, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> if you have nothing, why do you believe it? why is it such a big fucking deal in your life if there is no real reason to believe it? why waste your time on a total guess?
> i understand what you are saying. but i dont feel that we are arguing over nothing. the religion you subscribe to affects my life, and i would like to just know why people like you(no offense) believe. you are making extraordinary claims(god definitely exists and created the universe and jesus was a real prophet) that you say has no evidence at all, yet still whole-heartedly believe in it. WHY?! how do you not see that you are apparently believing in your religion for no reason at all? you see other religions as not true because they have nothing to stand on. whats different about christianity?
> 
> i dont mean for this to sound like an attack. i really am curious how this kind of thing happens and why


Alot of the messages from the bible are very true to me. I have looked into other religions but Christianity just stuck with me. Jesus is a great role model and I honestly want to follow in his footsteps. I have no proof but I don't need any. If for some reason I would lie and say I killed in the name of god then I could understand why I would need evidence to back myself up. But the thing is I hurt nobody and don't vote when it comes to politics so I really don't affect anyone's lives including yours. If it does affect anyone's lives it would be my own life. And that's ok because it only has positive qualities FOR ME. I can't answer why anyone else believes in a religion because I can't choose whether or not I want them to believe in a god.


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Who said we don't believe in science?


Hahaha... Well history for one...you guys get the convenience of saying it isn.t science if you dont believe it. Hawkings just said our universe easnt created by god and has mathematical and scientific backing...how do you feel about that?


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Alot of the messages from the bible are very true to me. I have looked into other religions but Christianity just stuck with me. Jesus is a great role model and I honestly want to follow in his footsteps. I have no proof but I don't need any. If for some reason I would lie and say I killed in the name of god then I could understand why I would need evidence to back myself up. But the thing is I hurt nobody and don't vote when it comes to politics so I really don't affect anyone's lives including yours. If it does affect anyone's lives it would be my own life. And that's ok because it only has positive qualities FOR ME. I can't answer why anyone else believes in a religion because I can't choose whether or not I want them to believe in a god.


And I.m sure you gave all the other religions an honest chance right, like budhism... Beside that, what does thinking jesus was cool have anything to do with christianity? Lets be real, jesus's words are like 50 pages out of a 12oo page bible. Christianity really has nothing to do with jesus aside from needing a mascot, or as the spanish like to say, mascote...hahaha sorry, a bit baked now


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 12, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Hahaha... Well history for one...you guys get the convenience of saying it isn.t science if you dont believe it. Hawkings just said our universe easnt created by god and has mathematical and scientific backing...how do you feel about that?


First of it is isn't not easnt. And it's isn't not isn.t.
Next, Please show me the proof that this guy knows how the universe was created. 
After that please tell me how there was nothing and that certain nothing exploded and became our universe.
Also what time are you talking about when you say history?


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 12, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> And I.m sure you gave all the other religions an honest chance right, like budhism... Beside that, what does thinking jesus was cool have anything to do with christianity? Lets be real, jesus's words are like 50 pages out of a 12oo page bible. Christianity really has nothing to do with jesus aside from needing a mascot, or as the spanish like to say, mascote...hahaha sorry, a bit baked now


Yes you are completely right. It was my mistake for thinking CHRISTianity had anything to do with following Jesus CHRIST.


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 12, 2011)

They should call it Paul-ianity since he had more to say that jesus did...but no one wants to worship a psychotic executioner... The deeper I get into this talk the more I think the only answe IS like in the Bible, have them all axed...talk about a self fulfilling professy. I think that is part of y'alls problem, te inherrant victimization that comes from believing we will eventually want to kill you all. Fucking martyrs


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 12, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> They should call it Paul-ianity since he had more to say that jesus did...but no one wants to worship a psychotic executioner... The deeper I get into this talk the more I think the only answe IS like in the Bible, have them all axed...talk about a self fulfilling professy. I think that is part of y'alls problem, te inherrant victimization that comes from believing we will eventually want to kill you all. Fucking martyrs


So pretty much you have nothing beneficial to bring to the table, am I correct?


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 12, 2011)

Hahaha, buddy, you have no idea what I have to bring to the table, its just not wroth the time it takes to blast another one of you out of the water by typing through my cellphone...trust me, I know your damn bible, cover to fucking cover. I also know the hiatory of christianity, the history of religion, the sociological a.d psychological aspects of it all... Yoh have no fucking idea, sitti.g across from a table with a panel of judges, like we do it in the intellectual debate world, I would rip you a new asshole so fucking big you.d look like a swarm of sharks just took you for dinner. You dont even know pal... I'm trying to be polite and somewhat diplomatic, its just aggrevating, its hard to have patience with the religious...


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## Underthelight (Sep 12, 2011)

I did not realize how heated the discussion was, I was raised Roman Catholic so I studied the Bible (Old and New Testament ) exclusively until I was older , I know it quite well, and must say I never questioned a thing at first.Later in life I started learning about what occurred through history in the name of my specific form of Christianity and began to have deep questions no one could/would answer for me, like whom combined the Bible in it's current form and why, what was lost in the original translations, why some of the gospels were left out, why so many had to die in the crusades, why we share so many pagan holidays and traditions, why the protestants separated from the main church long ago, etc. I studied the other gospels next which showed quite a different view on things, at that time I decided to read the Qur'an, it just lead me to have more questions on how this all came about, next was the religion of the Egyptians and how that was constantly evolving , then the older European gods of the Greeks, Romans, and Norse. After that I was hooked and started looking into the gods of the Native Americans, Inuit, Mayans, Incas and so on. That lead me back to the more recently developed followings of the Mormons and Scientology.

In the end I had learned so much of the rich history that religions have to offer, and came to the conclusion personally that no one really has a clue whats going on, and if there was a specific all powerful god out there, what a pansy to just not show up and clear all the confusion up.

I truly do believe everyone would get along better in today's world if religion had no influence. I will not try to convince anyone whom is religious in whatever sense that they are incorrect I just wish everyone open there mind to all the information out there and treat it all equally. Sadly most put on the blinders and ignore all but what pertains to there beliefs, or even worst they believe something and know a lot less then even I do about what they are telling me they believe in.

I find much more wonder in the world around us , and all that we can learn and see in this vast universe, and our short time to experience it, then what any religion has to offer.

Alas nothing I believe or you believe is going to matter in the end as we will all be dust , and go back to where ever we were before we came here, if we were anywhere at all. So lets all get along and enjoy this roller coaster of an experiences we get to all share in.


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 12, 2011)

fucking christians, come onto an ANTI CHRISTIAN thread and push your fucki ng agenda. Mind your own business, stick to your own posts, I dunno, something about protdcting pedophile priests or something. You obviously were never wanted here. I blame the romans, there were originally only 12 of you guys, how hard could that have been.... Damned romans!


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## Underthelight (Sep 12, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> fucking christians, come onto an ANTI CHRISTIAN thread and push your fucki ng agenda. Mind your own business, stick to your own posts, I dunno, something about protdcting pedophile priests or something. You obviously were never wanted here. I blame the romans, there were originally only 12 of you guys, how hard could that have been.... Damned romans!


Hope you didn't mean me as I am far, far from being a christian. That or you can't read?


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 12, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Hahaha, buddy, you have no idea what I have to bring to the table, its just not wroth the time it takes to blast another one of you out of the water by typing through my cellphone...trust me, I know your damn bible, cover to fucking cover. I also know the hiatory of christianity, the history of religion, the sociological a.d psychological aspects of it all... Yoh have no fucking idea, sitti.g across from a table with a panel of judges, like we do it in the intellectual debate world, I would rip you a new asshole so fucking big you.d look like a swarm of sharks just took you for dinner. You dont even know pal... I'm trying to be polite and somewhat diplomatic, its just aggrevating, its hard to have patience with the religious...


So in short, you have nothing to bring to the table. Do you know what I find aggregating? I find it aggravating when someone claims they are so intelligent when they don't know how to spell basic words nor can have a mature debate. You should rethink about your debating skills and try to improve them alot before you go off typing misspelled words like a dumbass who claims to have intellectual debates.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 12, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> fucking christians, come onto an ANTI CHRISTIAN thread and push your fucki ng agenda. Mind your own business, stick to your own posts, I dunno, something about protdcting pedophile priests or something. You obviously were never wanted here. I blame the romans, there were originally only 12 of you guys, how hard could that have been.... Damned romans!


Ha look how pissed he gets, that's hilarious.


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## Luger187 (Sep 12, 2011)

let the battle commence!

[video=youtube;T0RpMW2PlLQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0RpMW2PlLQ[/video]
[video=youtube;IVbnciQYMiM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVbnciQYMiM[/video]


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 12, 2011)

Underthelight said:


> I did not realize how heated the discussion was, I was raised Roman Catholic so I studied the Bible (Old and New Testament ) exclusively until I was older , I know it quite well, and must say I never questioned a thing at first.Later in life I started learning about what occurred through history in the name of my specific form of Christianity and began to have deep questions no one could/would answer for me, like whom combined the Bible in it's current form and why, what was lost in the original translations, why some of the gospels were left out, why so many had to die in the crusades, why we share so many pagan holidays and traditions, why the protestants separated from the main church long ago, etc. I studied the other gospels next which showed quite a different view on things, at that time I decided to read the Qur'an, it just lead me to have more questions on how this all came about, next was the religion of the Egyptians and how that was constantly evolving , then the older European gods of the Greeks, Romans, and Norse. After that I was hooked and started looking into the gods of the Native Americans, Inuit, Mayans, Incas and so on. That lead me back to the more recently developed followings of the Mormons and Scientology.
> 
> In the end I had learned so much of the rich history that religions have to offer, and came to the conclusion personally that no one really has a clue whats going on, and if there was a specific all powerful god out there, what a pansy to just not show up and clear all the confusion up.
> 
> ...





Underthelight said:


> Hope you didn't mean me as I am far, far from being a christian. That or you can't read?


No, of course I didnt mean you, I thought what you had to say was insightful. After I posted I saw your post...sorry bout that.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Typical ignorance on a mass scale with these atheists. 


Its funny how they always give us shit about deflecting and what not, i believe i have owned them and they have nothing to say. All they do is say their stupid lil "oly says the darndest things" queer verse.

Typical and expected of these low lifes






Hepheastus420 said:


> I'm surprised they had nothing to say to that. I guess they jut don't wish to face the unfortunate truth.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

I know, hahaha lol!


Man i am out of pot, nooooooo!





Hepheastus420 said:


> Ha look how pissed he gets, that's hilarious.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 13, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> I know, hahaha lol!
> 
> 
> Man i am out of pot, nooooooo!


 Damn oly that sucks, I jut bought some dro. Not sure what strain but it's ok.  hope you get some soon.


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## Heisenberg (Sep 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I'm surprised they had nothing to say to that. I guess they jut don't wish to face the unfortunate truth.


We have said it, over and over and over in many threads. Pick any name from that list, any example, and ask yourself. Was the problem here that these people were being too rational? 

Lets take Jim Jones. Did this atrocity occur because Jim and his followers applied too much critical thought? Did they demand too much evidence and were too consistent in their logic? Was the problem that they wanted things to make too much sense?

Lets take Kim Jong. Is the problem with this situation that he and his people apply too much analysis? Are they being too careful in their thinking and being too reasonable in their actions? Are they too concerned with being conscientious and precise? 

Lets take Jeffrey Dahmer. Was his rape, murder and cannibalistic acts a result of being too focused on legitimacy? Was he requiring too much validation and keeping his thoughts too organized? Was he too involved with accuracy and fastidious inquiry?

Do I need to go through the entire list? Skepticism is essentially what every atheist here is promoting. We advocate applying critical examination to the claim of a deity. Is this what lead Alfred Kinsey to exploit children for sex?


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## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Hahahahahahahaha, i told you hep, they would find some "x factor" and justify those peoples actions as non atheist or "if there wasnt religion, they wouldnt of done anything close" what naive douche bag says that? Apparently these atheists see no harm in what they did cause their motive was religion.


Man whatever! I see the what you are heis,maybe others dont... Let me see, are you going to use hou gay line or something new to try and break the ownership i won here


Pretty funny!.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

I hope so also bro, ill have to drive a fews hours to your locale for the hook up. Funny how these guys dont want to debate with me, i am just too good for them and i bring too many facts to the table. What do they bring? Only stories out of a book they claim to be false and ask us to explain it to them. How is that not breaking so many rules of debate, but these atheists use no mirror






Hepheastus420 said:


> Damn oly that sucks, I jut bought some dro. Not sure what strain but it's ok.  hope you get some soon.


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## ginjawarrior (Sep 13, 2011)

lmao olylifter flexes his intellectual muscles and we all quiver in fear


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## jackoladd (Sep 13, 2011)

I think of religion as a tool to indoctrinate and control the population.


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 13, 2011)

Ok... So it does seem the mushroom guy amd olly have taken over this thread. Good job guys. Your persistance has made everyone so tired of speaking to you that you just drive people away. Like the old quote, "you give me a dessert and call it peace" I feel I should disengage this conversation as it is bringing a lot of bad out of me. I prefer not to be an amgry person. I prefer not to lie there angry stirring up old feelings that make me VIZUALIZE the brutal death amd torture of christians. I dont enjoy thw feeling of enjoying the thought of seeing chriatians have their skin roasted off with red hot pokers. Its disturbing. You guys are really angering. However, befor you start fondeling yourself with pride and saying, "yay, we won we won" I would like to say a few things.

Firstly, I dont think any of us agnostic/athiests would argue that there have been some pretty fucked up people who were athiests who did some pretty fucked up things. Of course. The difference is that these things were not done with athiesm being the motivating factor,for example Kensey didnt study sexuality as a way to glorify athiesm, he did it because of the huge gray areas in the science of sexuality. He is still the single largest contributor to human sexuality. He was also born into a fundementalist christian home.

Napoleon didnt try to take over europe to glorify athiesm, in fact in many of his pre battle speaches Napoleon uses "god" to help rally his troops and enspire them.

JIM JONES! ARE YOU KIDDING, HE WASNT AN ATHIEST... He claimed to be the son of god. Originally jim jones following was gained at his fundementalist christian church in southern ca. Deffinately he was a thiest.

But sure, plenty of harm has been done by the non religious. I wont deny it. But in all honesty those things dont seem to match the magnanomy of religious harm done to the world. We can all name wars and genocide that was started in the nam e of god, with god being the reason to kill. Can you name some wars where people fought in the name of believing there was no god?
We want an end to religion because of all the harm it has done and continues to do to our world. Are there bad athiests, yes certainly. But the fundementals of an athiestic beliefe dont and havent been an enciting force to go to war. As likeable as you guys are though, I could guess.that one day it will be.

Can you explane to us now how having the religious in the world benefits everyone else? Be,ause I certainly dont see it..


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 13, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> I hope so also bro, ill have to drive a fews hours to your locale for the hook up. Funny how these guys dont want to debate with me, i am just too good for them and i bring too many facts to the table. What do they bring? Only stories out of a book they claim to be false and ask us to explain it to them. How is that not breaking so many rules of debate, but these atheists use no mirror


And if you guys arent growers what are you doing on this site to begin with. I should go hang out on a breast inplant forum simply because I love breasts...


----------



## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Again, sorry ass excuses for these murderers, killers, exploiters and dictators. 

The hard reality and you all speak so much about reality is that you all cannot accept the flaws within atheism and your beliefs and justify other atheists actions as being driven by religion. What religion? 


You all just cant accept defeat and the fact that atheism is nothing more then an Unorganized religion of people who are afraid of the truth.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Are you dumb jf? Ther called "implants" !


And it is none of your business what i do, so stay out of it


And please, we need scientific evidence backing your claims and that goes for Heis as well, just as you all dont accept anectodal evidence, we dont either, and i mean evidence for all those murderes, killers, rapers, and dictators actions not being driven by atheism...


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## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Is that you in the pic?





ginjawarrior said:


> lmao olylifter flexes his intellectual muscles and we all quiver in fear


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## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

I read a bit of it amd its the.same.thing heis said, so sorry, you are.dumb and a killer if i understood that 1st paragraph right





Filthy Phil said:


> Ok... So it does seem the mushroom guy amd olly have taken over this thread. Good job guys. Your persistance has made everyone so tired of speaking to you that you just drive people away. Like the old quote, "you give me a dessert and call it peace" I feel I should disengage this conversation as it is bringing a lot of bad out of me. I prefer not to be an amgry person. I prefer not to lie there angry stirring up old feelings that make me VIZUALIZE the brutal death amd torture of christians. I dont enjoy thw feeling of enjoying the thought of seeing chriatians have their skin roasted off with red hot pokers. Its disturbing. You guys are really angering. However, befor you start fondeling yourself with pride and saying, "yay, we won we won" I would like to say a few things.
> 
> Firstly, I dont think any of us agnostic/athiests would argue that there have been some pretty fucked up people who were athiests who did some pretty fucked up things. Of course. The difference is that these things were not done with athiesm being the motivating factor,for example Kensey didnt study sexuality as a way to glorify athiesm, he did it because of the huge gray areas in the science of sexuality. He is still the single largest contributor to human sexuality. He was also born into a fundementalist christian home.
> 
> ...


----------



## Filthy Phil (Sep 13, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> Again, sorry ass excuses for these murderers, killers, exploiters and dictators.
> 
> The hard reality and you all speak so much about reality is that you all cannot accept the flaws within atheism and your beliefs and justify other atheists actions as being driven by religion. What religion?
> 
> ...


Firstly, I.m not athiest. I believe in a god. The confines of my mind lead me to believe that since there is matter, something created it. I believe in what is "the first cause argument" being the first cause in a long chain of cause and effect. I'm not an athiest, more accurately, I am agnostic, which is a form of thiesm. That does not mean though that because a believe in the existance of a force beyond my understanding that I believe anything elser religions try to associate with that believe. From here on out I will call the force which I have little understanding of that is responsible for the existance of matter, I will call it god...it will be easier. I dont believe that god created us or our galaxy, that god has any rules for our lives, that there is an ultimate system of punishment and reward, that god even cares about anything that happens to us. I believe that if you take an open minded look at the evidence our word has to offer that thses views are more likey. If god cared, africa wouldnt be so screwed...and there are many examples of this.lds But I am not athiest.

What I feel has happened is that people have taken this feeling that many of us have and create a whole networks of stories and manipulations to exploit peoples curriosities and fears for power, wealth, control, whatever. I think religion is a harmful way of creating ethics around the beliefe in a god. 

What we want most really isnt for you to be gone because religion adds to the culture of life on earth, what we really want is you to keep to yourself. Religion is like a dick, do.t take it out in public and certainly dont try to shove it down my or my kids throats. Be religious, just keep it to yourself like the buddhists do. Everyone loves buddhists, they dont fuck with everything like judean based religions.

Also, I dont make any excuses for the horrible people of the past, they were horrible...bad people. I've been to cambodia and seen the killing fields, ive been to burma and seen what the junta have done. Ive been to china and seen how single dimensional they all are. They were bad people.

All I.m saying is that the absence of religion, not spiritualism, could make the world a better place.


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## Luger187 (Sep 13, 2011)

again, oly shows he has no idea what atheism is

how does he not understand that those people didnt do those acts in the name of atheism? he is essentially saying because they didnt believe in a god, and they committed those acts, it is because of the lack of belief in god that those acts were committed. big fail on his part. they didnt collect stamps or bugs also, so that must also be the reason, right? anyone who doesnt collect stamps or bugs has a tendency to commit those acts?


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## XRagnorX (Sep 13, 2011)

Well that's simple, eliminate all carbon based life forms......

Frickin heretics!


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## cannabisguru (Sep 13, 2011)

eradicating religion here in the U.S.A. .... the whole idea of that even having the slightest chance of happening, is quite comical.

religion will ALWAYS be a part of the human race.


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## Luger187 (Sep 13, 2011)

heres a question... why do people feel they NEED religion in their life? why are some people totally fine with not having a religion, but others go nuts over the idea of not having their religion?
why do people think life would be meaningless without a god? isnt the universe a fantastically amazing place thats full of wonder? thats not enough for you? you have to have a creator of this universe in order to feel comfortable?

and can anyone give me proof that there is just ONE god? not your god specifically. just show me that there is definitely ONE god, as opposed to 2, or 3, or 4, etc. that would be a nice start at least


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## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

lol, girl you say the darndests things!


Jackass, let me dumb it down for you,

Atheist killer has nothing or no one to fear or answer to. Witheld and free of judgement(God) they feel no moral value for life(believers) therefore, they felt the need to "erradicate" the believers and those who were curious to know how God started it all. .


Name one mass(in the millions) murdere or dictator that has done everything by the book(bible). One that could trump stalin or hitler. There is none. 


Oh, and did you see my reply to mindphuks stupid post about stamp collecting? If not, ill share it here,


"since gays are not wanted by God, and atheists despise God, therefore all atheists are gay and all gays are atheist." 









QUOTE=Luger187;6274193]again, oly shows he has no idea what atheism is

how does he not understand that those people didnt do those acts in the name of atheism? he is essentially saying because they didnt believe in a god, and they committed those acts, it is because of the lack of belief in god that those acts were committed. big fail on his part. they didnt collect stamps or bugs also, so that must also be the reason, right? anyone who doesnt collect stamps or bugs has a tendency to commit those acts?[/QUOTE]


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## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Girl, you say the darndests things! 


So many questions from a person who is quite in limbo. Not knowing what to do about their beliefs a bit confused you sound like luger. Its easier once you accept the facts that atheists have been a negative aspect of history. How many great minds were killed by atheists? What makes atheism and atheists much different from believers? Why should people accept atheism over believing? Whats different frombeing atheist and.believing?





Luger187 said:


> heres a question... why do people feel they NEED religion in their life? why are some people totally fine with not having a religion, but others go nuts over the idea of not having their religion?
> why do people think life would be meaningless without a god? isnt the universe a fantastically amazing place thats full of wonder? thats not enough for you? you have to have a creator of this universe in order to feel comfortable?
> 
> and can anyone give me proof that there is just ONE god? not your god specifically. just show me that there is definitely ONE god, as opposed to 2, or 3, or 4, etc. that would be a nice start at least


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Sep 13, 2011)

Oly, do you mind if I ask you a few personal questions?

How old are you?

What state did you grow up in?

How long have you been smoking/growing weed?

Did you grow up in a ''family unit'', that is both a mother and a father?

Did you graduate high school or attend any college?

If you had to pick, what would you say is your biggest interest?



olylifter420 said:


> Atheist killer has nothing or no one to fear or answer to.


We answer to ourselves which is much more important than an unstable moral code.

Honestly, the way I felt about it when I was a believer was "I can always just ask for forgiveness". How messed up is that?



olylifter420 said:


> Witheld and free of judgement(God) they feel no moral value for life(believers)


That's totally backwards from my point of view. I value life MORE because I acknowledge this is the only life we get, once its gone, you're gone. This goes for just about all forms of life. This simple realization has impacted me in ways I probably haven't even seen yet. You understand that everything is a system, everything ties into something else and you start to realize that even the most harmless thing like throwing trash on the ground actually does harm yourself in the long run. It makes you consider your actions more.

Contrast that with conflicts influenced by religion, life is the last thing considered.



olylifter420 said:


> Name one mass(in the millions) murdere or dictator that has done everything by the book(bible). One that could trump stalin or hitler. There is none.


Why, for you to misunderstand it again?

It's been said more than twice in this thread alone;

If somebody kills somebody (or millions), it isn't because he was an atheist. The guy didnt wake up in the morning, say to himself "I don't believe in God, I'm going to go mass murder millions". It has never happened in human history. That has never been a reason for someone to take that kind of action, and if it was, if you could find even ONE case where they've caught the guy afterwards and during the interview he admitted his atheism was an influence on his actions, I guarantee every psychiatrist who studied the case found him to be insane by every notable standard. 

Where as religion IS A DIRECT INFLUENCE on MANY cases where a lot of people have been harmed. 

We've showed you the link, plenty of times, and you have yet to show us any kind of link at all. All you can do is say "atheism is bad" without giving any examples (besides ones you misinterpret that we've shown you to be wrong many times before) of why it's bad. 



olylifter420 said:


> Oh, and did you see my reply to mindphuks stupid post about stamp collecting? If not, ill share it here,
> 
> 
> "since gays are not wanted by God, and atheists despise God, therefore all atheists are gay and all gays are atheist."


::sigh:: facepalm...  



olylifter420 said:


> accept the facts that atheists have been a negative aspect of history


Show me the link, provide evidence



olylifter420 said:


> How many great minds were killed by atheists?


Whose been killed by an atheist?


----------



## Luger187 (Sep 13, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> lol, girl you say the darndests things!
> 
> 
> Jackass, let me dumb it down for you,
> ...


this presupposes that all morals come from god. what you are referring to is a psychopath, which has nothing to do with atheism. and the need they feel to eradicate the religious people is Antitheism, which some atheists are(edit: agnostics too). but the antitheism is above and beyond atheism. again, atheism is merely the lack of belief in a god.




> Name one mass(in the millions) murdere or dictator that has done everything by the book(bible). One that could trump stalin or hitler. There is none.


what is your point? like we have told you before, those murderers were not doing their crimes in the name of atheism. very few people follow everything in the bible. if they did, they would be doing a lot of evil things.



> Oh, and did you see my reply to mindphuks stupid post about stamp collecting? If not, ill share it here,
> 
> 
> "since gays are not wanted by God, and atheists despise God, therefore all atheists are gay and all gays are atheist."


i saw it, i just didnt think it deserved a response. atheists dont despise god. this shows your complete lack of understanding.




olylifter420 said:


> So many questions from a person who is quite in limbo. Not knowing what to do about their beliefs a bit confused you sound like luger.


what are you, yoda? lol why do you think i am questioning by beliefs? edit: and what beliefs am i questioning?



> Its easier once you accept the facts that atheists have been a negative aspect of history. How many great minds were killed by atheists? What makes atheism and atheists much different from believers? Why should people accept atheism over believing? Whats different frombeing atheist and.believing?


we have already answered these many times, and im not going to waste my time. it is obvious to everyone that you think atheism is a belief that there is no god.


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## Heisenberg (Sep 13, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> Man whatever! I see the what you are heis,maybe others dont... Let me see, are you going to use hou gay line or something new to try and break the ownership i won here


No Oly, If to you listing examples and showing no evidence of what drives these people somehow indicates atheism, then it must be so.

If to you being driven by reason and rationality is an 'x-factor' then it must not have anything to do with the subject, just as you say.

If you think pretending to be intellectual by posting write ups written by someone else, failing to understand that write up, and mimicking the big words and ideas used by your superiors equals ownership, then I suppose I have been owned.

If to you irrelevant insults and random name calling demonstrates sophistication, then you must be the winner.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

No, i left the evidence keeping up to you and other atheists just as you all ask us for evidence. And you dont need name calling to be a dick, pontificators are dicks in intellectual disguise.


The "x factor" is the excuses you all are throwing up here to defend atheism as some peaceful loving beliefs.


But someone like you will not understand it cause you dont consider what i say.


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## Padawanbater2 (Sep 13, 2011)

...yet you still can't link atheism with anything bad.


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## Luger187 (Sep 13, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> No, i left the evidence keeping up to you and other atheists just as you all ask us for evidence.


if you really consider that evidence, i feel sorry for you. stay in school, man




> The "x factor" is the excuses you all are throwing up here to defend atheism as some peaceful loving beliefs.


ONE MORE TIME, atheism is not a belief. we are not portraying it as peaceful or loving. we are portraying it for what it is, which is the lack of belief in a god. nothing else.



> But someone like you will not understand it cause you dont consider what i say.


because most of what you say is just insults against atheists and the 'evidence' you post is showing your lack of understanding


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## blazinkill504 (Sep 13, 2011)

i mean religion has good and bad. i saw countless church groups come to new orleans to help with any kinda clean up they could after katrina and all the charities they have...you cant label it all bad. i believe religion has a place in society, but all this rapin kids and christians not actin christ-like has to go. plus not to mention the immense panic that would go down if religion wasnt there.


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## Luger187 (Sep 13, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> i mean religion has good and bad. i saw countless church groups come to new orleans to help with any kinda clean up they could after katrina and all the charities they have...you cant label it all bad. i believe religion has a place in society, but all this rapin kids and christians not actin christ-like has to go. plus not to mention the immense panic that would go down if religion wasnt there.


yes religious centers do have a lot of charity stuff. but i think if they werent there, people would still form charity organizations. humans can still be giving without being told by god that they should be.


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## blazinkill504 (Sep 13, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> yes religious centers do have a lot of charity stuff. but i think if they werent there, people would still form charity organizations. humans can still be giving without being told by god that they should be.


that is true, but to me the church empowers those people to go out there and do those kinda things cause if they just had that idea. they wouldnt just go themselves, but then a group forms out the church and they hop on.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Ok... So it does seem the mushroom guy amd olly have taken over this thread. Good job guys. Your persistance has made everyone so tired of speaking to you that you just drive people away. Like the old quote, "you give me a dessert and call it peace" I feel I should disengage this conversation as it is bringing a lot of bad out of me. I prefer not to be an amgry person. I prefer not to lie there angry stirring up old feelings that make me VIZUALIZE the brutal death amd torture of christians. I dont enjoy thw feeling of enjoying the thought of seeing chriatians have their skin roasted off with red hot pokers. Its disturbing. You guys are really angering. However, befor you start fondeling yourself with pride and saying, "yay, we won we won" I would like to say a few things.
> 
> Firstly, I dont think any of us agnostic/athiests would argue that there have been some pretty fucked up people who were athiests who did some pretty fucked up things. Of course. The difference is that these things were not done with athiesm being the motivating factor,for example Kensey didnt study sexuality as a way to glorify athiesm, he did it because of the huge gray areas in the science of sexuality. He is still the single largest contributor to human sexuality. He was also born into a fundementalist christian home.
> 
> ...


Alright so you're always talking shit about me and say you're gonna stop posting on these threads. So you should just stop. Also how do you know I don't grow? I would like to know where you got that from, ha. Anyways go away if you just want to talk about how you want to burn religious people. Oh and go learn how to spell dipshit.


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 13, 2011)

Well...i said I should disengage, I know texas isnt up to date on vocab, but thats not the same thing as leaving. I fealt I was becoming too easily attatched to what was being said and that this ludicrous argument isnt worth allowing it to rent space in my head. As usual though, you dont tackle the argument, you simply twist away and take the time to point out my poor spelling, which is true, my spelling has been pretty bad. I'm still getting the hang of this new phone. But being the superior speller can be your title if you'd like.

I assumed you dont grow because you guys were mentioning having to go buy another sack of grass...false assumption I guess.

Back to the same point, you fail to counter or acknowledge even other people arguments.. You offer no evidence to support the claims you make, and the evidence you do offer pertains to a slightly different argument. your whole mode of deduction is flawed. 

Our statements here, many are supported by historical and current scientific documentation. This is the most you can really work with, I feel our arguments have been fairly clearly stated, yet remain truly unaddressed or improperly counter-argued. I am approaching a loss of ability to find another way to approach the situation in a manner you are able to comprehend. My bad I guess....

And I would like to note that you guys have done a wonderful job of portraying the love of christ. Very christian of you. And my hat off to the state of texas, one of our most god fearing states, for executing over 270 people last year, the highest per capita in the world. Such a good example of ,"doing away with the rules of the past of an eye for an eye, a footh for a tooth." Thats exactly what jesus meant when he said to turn the other cheek.

This is all just so rediculous, its like arguing with children....or a wall...nothing sinks in. its cool though, just keep to yourself and when the day the great purge of the religious happens, dont say no one ever explained why.


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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Sep 13, 2011)

OP how old are you? 

You start with a false premise then question why the real world does not reflect your view. You attempt to use anecdotal evidence and generalizations to support your false premise and then insult a country whose foundation lies in Judeo-Christian beliefs.

You are free to believe anything you desire, please allow the rest of us the same freedom.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Well...i said I should disengage, I know texas isnt up to date on vocab, but thats not the same thing as leaving. I fealt I was becoming too easily attatched to what was being said and that this ludicrous argument isnt worth allowing it to rent space in my head. As usual though, you dont tackle the argument, you simply twist away and take the time to point out my poor spelling, which is true, my spelling has been pretty bad. I'm still getting the hang of this new phone. But being the superior speller can be your title if you'd like.
> 
> I assumed you dont grow because you guys were mentioning having to go buy another sack of grass...false assumption I guess.
> 
> ...


I'm not twisting away from anything. I see no argument from you just insults. And why bring up Texas? You say that Texas killed 270 people last year. But may I ask if it was in the name of god? That is the same argument atheist use to defend themselves (which I have no problem with) but you want to use that against me, hypocrite. Besides Texas has nothing to do with what we are talking about. You say we have not addressed your argument but again I don't see an argument. You also say you have historic and scientific evidence to back up your imaginary argument, so where is this evidence? I would like to see it. What are you talking about when you say I don't listen to the other persons debate? I have been proven wrong on certain occasions and have admitted to my fault. I'm not arguing like a child, on the other hand you were the one who came into these threads blasting insults at all the Christians with childish insults. Also I will claim "superior speller" between us. I find it funny that you use your phone as an excuse for your horribly misspelled words, I didn't know it was impossible to spell correctly on a phone. I will not bring up the spelling anymore unless you too wish to insult me for things that have nothing to do with the debate. Now then back to my other point, please restate your imaginary argument and your imaginary historic and scientific evidence.


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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Sep 13, 2011)

luger187 said:


> there are bars and clubs everywhere. Have you ever driven through texas? They have huge billboards all over the highways, and ads that tell you to drink. I dont think anyone should believe that because its absolutely ridiculous.


fyp 567890

It's a shame your hate is so strong that you are offended by others free speech.


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## Underthelight (Sep 13, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> No, i left the evidence keeping up to you and other atheists just as you all ask us for evidence. And you dont need name calling to be a dick, pontificators are dicks in intellectual disguise.
> 
> 
> The "x factor" is the excuses you all are throwing up here to defend atheism as some peaceful loving beliefs.
> ...


Curious why someone would have to prove anything to claim to be an atheist ? Anyone with an education will tell you that the burden of proof always rests with the side making the claim. The theist claims that there is some sort of god; the atheist does not agree with this claim. Where lies the burden of proof ? Not trying to argue with you just curious to you logical reasoning?


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## Luger187 (Sep 13, 2011)

Bonzi Lighthouse said:


> fyp 567890
> 
> It's a shame your hate is so strong that you are offended by others free speech.


im offended by their beliefs, not free speech. those crosses do nothing but to show that christianity is correct and you should submit now while you have the chance, if you havent already. i dont think its okay to spread ignorance and submission, and those big crosses on the side of the highway are a symbol of that.

i dont see a problem with an advertisement for a bar or club because they are a business that needs customers. religion on the other hand doesnt NEED more customers. they only feel the need to get more because they believe their god said to spread the word. they think it is righteous when they get more people to join them. they think it is a good thing that more people believe the lies they believe.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> im offended by their beliefs, not free speech. those crosses do nothing but to show that christianity is correct and you should submit now while you have the chance, if you havent already. i dont think its okay to spread ignorance and submission, and those big crosses on the side of the highway are a symbol of that.
> 
> i dont see a problem with an advertisement for a bar or club because they are a business that needs customers. religion on the other hand doesnt NEED more customers. they only feel the need to get more because they believe their god said to spread the word. they think it is righteous when they get more people to join them. they think it is a good thing that more people believe the lies they believe.


Before you pointed out that I would be offended if the star of David was hung up everywhere, I would like to clarify I would not care. They believe I have to submit to them but I don't have to if I don't want to. Same in your case. The difference between us is you don't agree that religious people get to express their beliefs.


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## mindphuk (Sep 13, 2011)

Underthelight said:


> Curious why someone would have to prove anything to claim to be an atheist ? Anyone with an education will tell you that the burden of proof always rests with the side making the claim. The theist claims that there is some sort of god; the atheist does not agree with this claim. Where lies the burden of proof ? Not trying to argue with you just curious to you logical reasoning?


 Don't bother using logic and reason with oly. He's only here to cause grief and aggravation. He's been on ignore for the most part yet he still pops up in every thread and cries and whines about atheists and how his beliefs are being belittled (whether the thread is about religion or not). 

Recently people have begun to respond to him again, try to explain that atheism isn't a belief or doctrine, he doesn't listen or doesn't care and acts like a child in a roomful of adults that feels he's not getting any attention. 

The best thing you can do is go to your user control panel and put him in your ignore list. That way his inane rantings won't interfere and ruin the dialogue and the only time you will see his posts is when someone unwisely quotes him.


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## Luger187 (Sep 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Before you pointed out that I would be offended if the star of David was hung up everywhere, I would like to clarify I would not care. They believe I have to submit to them but I don't have to if I don't want to. Same in your case. The difference between us is you don't agree that religious people get to express their beliefs.


i wouldnt care if they could defend their beliefs. the problem is they make shit up and say they rely on faith. by this same logic, you could defend anything. i think we as a species should evolve past this way of thinking, and start relying on actual facts and data to form beliefs. instead of just believing it because it sounds good and you like what jesus said


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## Heisenberg (Sep 13, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> i wouldnt care if they could defend their beliefs. the problem is they make shit up and say they rely on faith. by this same logic, you could defend anything. i think we as a species should evolve past this way of thinking, and start relying on actual facts and data to form beliefs. instead of just believing it because it sounds good and you like what jesus said


Hes goading you into another strawman, unless you really do feel religious people should be deigned the right of expression. Do you? To me it looks as if you were simply pointing out that when they do express themselves, it serves to spread lies and misinformation and to discourage the human race from progression, which you find contemptible. If free expression take precedence over all, then you should be as free to express your contempt as they are to express their beliefs.


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 13, 2011)

I always love it when I hear,"what evidence? What history? to not see it you would have to actively avoid it, its like you stand in a freeway median asking, "what cars?" The evidence is all around you, and I suppose depending on the paradigm view you could say the same to me about how the evidence of your view is all around us. However, mine is documented through historians and replicable through science. My beliefs dont hinge upon what some dessert dwelling goat herders passed along by word of mouth for a few thousand years. Remember, these were the same people who thought the earth was flat and wanted to burn gallaleo and copernicus at the stake for the correct scientific view that they fealt challenged their religion.
my argument is simple, had there not been religion, the number of attrocities.commited in the name of god would surely be less, thus making the world a better place. You arent saying the world is a better place because of religious attrocities are you? For reference we could chose the crusades and the spanish inquisition. Your turn curly bill, make texas proud!


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## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

There is rep for that bro, just check yours. Hypocrite baby back bitches





mindphuk said:


> Don't bother using logic and reason with oly. He's only here to cause grief and aggravation. He's been on ignore for the most part yet he still pops up in every thread and cries and whines about atheists and how his beliefs are being belittled (whether the thread is about religion or not).
> 
> Recently people have begun to respond to him again, try to explain that atheism isn't a belief or doctrine, he doesn't listen or doesn't care and acts like a child in a roomful of adults that feels he's not getting any attention.
> 
> The best thing you can do is go to your user control panel and put him in your ignore list. That way his inane rantings won't interfere and ruin the dialogue and the only time you will see his posts is when someone unwisely quotes him.


----------



## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Funny how no one sees the hypocrisy in his statemwnts. Heis, yu are always changing positions





Heisenberg said:


> Hes goading you into another strawman, unless you really do feel religious people should be deigned the right of expression. Do you? To me it looks as if you were simply pointing out that when they do express themselves, it serves to spread lies and misinformation and to discourage the human race from progression, which you find contemptible. If free expression take precedence over all, then you should be as free to express your contempt as they are to express their beliefs.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Inquisition and crusades! The people who did those things obviously were atheists at heart. With hatred these rejects on here are spewing, it is clear anyone with such hate should be labelled an atheist. Yes, atheists i know this wont make sense to you for obvious reasons(you are an atheist)





Filthy Phil said:


> I always love it when I hear,"what evidence? What history? to not see it you would have to actively avoid it, its like you stand in a freeway median asking, "what cars?" The evidence is all around you, and I suppose depending on the paradigm view you could say the same to me about how the evidence of your view is all around us. However, mine is documented through historians and replicable through science. My beliefs dont hinge upon what some dessert dwelling goat herders passed along by word of mouth for a few thousand years. Remember, these were the same people who thought the earth was flat and wanted to burn gallaleo and copernicus at the stake for the correct scientific view that they fealt challenged their religion.
> my argument is simple, had there not been religion, the number of attrocities.commited in the name of god would surely be less, thus making the world a better place. You arent saying the world is a better place because of religious attrocities are you? For reference we could chose the crusades and the spanish inquisition. Your turn curly bill, make texas proud!


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## Heisenberg (Sep 13, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> Don't bother using logic and reason with oly. He's only here to cause grief and aggravation. He's been on ignore for the most part yet he still pops up in every thread and cries and whines about atheists and how his beliefs are being belittled (whether the thread is about religion or not).
> 
> Recently people have begun to respond to him again, try to explain that atheism isn't a belief or doctrine, he doesn't listen or doesn't care and acts like a child in a roomful of adults that feels he's not getting any attention.
> 
> The best thing you can do is go to your user control panel and put him in your ignore list. That way his inane rantings won't interfere and ruin the dialogue and the only time you will see his posts is when someone unwisely quotes him.


Unfortunately as a mod I don't have the luxury of ignoring people via digital selection. I advocate reinstituting the "oly says the darndest things" campaign, only lets just say it in our minds and move on, instead of wasting thread space. His goal is to confound us into senseless diatribe, or to exasperate us into silence. The best response is to simply treat him as if he is silent, until such time he decides to say something with substance. If you don't want to act like an adult, you don't get to talk with the adults. Of course he will see this as exclusion due to his beliefs instead of his conduct, and why shouldn't he, that's exactly how a child would see it.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> I always love it when I hear,"what evidence? What history? to not see it you would have to actively avoid it, its like you stand in a freeway median asking, "what cars?" The evidence is all around you, and I suppose depending on the paradigm view you could say the same to me about how the evidence of your view is all around us. However, mine is documented through historians and replicable through science. My beliefs dont hinge upon what some dessert dwelling goat herders passed along by word of mouth for a few thousand years. Remember, these were the same people who thought the earth was flat and wanted to burn gallaleo and copernicus at the stake for the correct scientific view that they fealt challenged their religion.
> my argument is simple, had there not been religion, the number of attrocities.commited in the name of god would surely be less, thus making the world a better place. You arent saying the world is a better place because of religious attrocities are you? For reference we could chose the crusades and the spanish inquisition. Your turn curly bill, make texas proud!


Finally a real debate from you. Alright I have to agree with you that there would be no more atrocities in the name of god (which I have already admitted and I have stated I don't agree with using religion to justify your actions). I have stated I don't represent the crusades or Spanish inquisitors. So yes you are right and I never twisted away from that, I never said your previously imaginary argument was false. My argument all along was that religion shouldn't be eradicated as a whole. Anyways do you believe that these people would not have found a way to create other atrocities? People that claim they do these evil/cruel acts because their religion wants them too are either evil for following that religion or are lying hypocrites for blaming their religion. So my point is that either way these people would have made a way to control a certain group with or without religion. There has been many atheist dictatorships (not saying their atrocities were motivated by their atheism), but my point is that they did not need religion to create atrocities. And the reason I asked where is your evidence is because you never posted any evidence nor argument so I was curious to what evidence you were referring to. So in conclusion yes you are right and my new argument is that there would still be just as many atrocities in the world with or without religion.


And don't complain about my insults towards your crappy spelling when you keep insulting Texas for no reason. And could you answer my question I previously asked? If you have a bad memory and simply forgot what question I'm referring to I will ask it again. Are those murders from Texas last year in the name of god?


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## mindphuk (Sep 13, 2011)

As a mod, you should have the power to hide or even delete any OT posts, especially those of an obvious troll/thread saboteur (or at least forum mod Pad should be able to). In spite of what he thinks, I do not have him on ignore as I read his posts, hoping for that glimmer of sanity that I saw within him just a few short weeks ago. I wonder what it is about atheism that bothers him so much that he invests so much time and energy into posting about it. Start a blog already for fuck sakes!


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## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Im offrnded with you being gay, but i aint gay bashing am i?


So you defend muslims for makings mosques all over the place in the US, but you are against freedom of speech from Christians, how hypocrite of you gurl!

I remember clearly you defending them, so please dont go back on your word if you got balls





Luger187 said:


> im offended by their beliefs, not free speech. those crosses do nothing but to show that christianity is correct and you should submit now while you have the chance, if you havent already. i dont think its okay to spread ignorance and submission, and those big crosses on the side of the highway are a symbol of that.
> 
> i dont see a problem with an advertisement for a bar or club because they are a business that needs customers. religion on the other hand doesnt NEED more customers. they only feel the need to get more because they believe their god said to spread the word. they think it is righteous when they get more people to join them. they think it is a good thing that more people believe the lies they believe.


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## Luger187 (Sep 13, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Hes goading you into another strawman, unless you really do feel religious people should be deigned the right of expression. Do you? To me it looks as if you were simply pointing out that when they do express themselves, it serves to spread lies and misinformation and to discourage the human race from progression, which you find contemptible. If free expression take precedence over all, then you should be as free to express your contempt as they are to express their beliefs.


i think they should be able to express their beliefs. but at some point it becomes ridiculous, you know? if someone wanted to put billboards up that said bigfoot exists, i wouldnt have a problem with the billboard itself, but rather the idea behind the billboard. especially if that belief was as widespread and ingrained as christianity is in america. and ontop of that, the only thing they had was 'faith' and this book that says hes real and is mostly third person accounts of events.
for these reasons, i would not agree with it. i do not think we should go around taking down crosses or anything. i just think they shouldnt be there in the first place because people shouldnt believe such things


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## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

When did you become an adult?


Last i checked, you all asked for negatives of atheism and posted not 1, but 10 dudes who did some fucked up shit. Now, did they do cause they felt no restraint or value for human cause they were atheists, or did they do it cause they hate believers like you all do?


Last i checked i was an adult, i dont know about you bro. Ignoring fact and using big words to impress the small atheist minds on here is truly not being an adult, but an internet bully!






Heisenberg said:


> Unfortunately as a mod I don't have the luxury of ignoring people via digital selection. I advocate reinstituting the "oly says the darndest things" campaign, only lets just say it in our minds and move on, instead of wasting thread space. His goal is to confound us into senseless diatribe, or to exasperate us into silence. The best response is to simply treat him as if he is silent, until such time he decides to say something with substance. If you don't want to act like an adult, you don't get to talk with the adults. Of course he will see this as exclusion due to his beliefs instead of his conduct, and why shouldn't he, that's exactly how a child would see it.


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## tyler.durden (Sep 13, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Unfortunately as a mod I don't have the luxury of ignoring people via digital selection. I advocate reinstituting the "oly says the darndest things" campaign, only lets just say it in our minds and move on, instead of wasting thread space. His goal is to confound us into senseless diatribe, or to exasperate us into silence. The best response is to simply treat him as if he is silent, until such time he decides to say something with substance. If you don't want to act like an adult, you don't get to talk with the adults. Of course he will see this as exclusion due to his beliefs instead of his conduct, and why shouldn't he, that's exactly how a child would see it.


Great idea, Heis. I've never experienced a creature quite like Oly, not even among small children. There is absolutely no value, merit, style or substance to anything he has to say, so I recently stopped replying to his posts about/to me altogether. Not even his fellow theists seem to respect or listen to him, and I've never seen that before. I really respect other theists on this forum, their beliefs are usually well thought out, they contribute interesting ideas and they sometimes even admit when they are wrong. I originally thought Oly wasn't getting what we were saying, so I tried to make my points in simpler and simpler ways, as I do with children. I've come to believe that he does understand all of our points (the same way I believe that he dresses and feeds himself), but chooses to run from his comprehension. It's not that he doesn't see, but that he WON'T see (there's none so blind as those who will not see), and there's nothing to be gained by interacting with someone who makes that choice. His ranting smacks of desperation, it is not us he is trying to convince, but himself. I didn't know about the ignore feature, I'm going to figure out how to do this now, sorry you have to absorb his lunacy as mod. If he ever actually contributes something worthwhile, I'll know it from your response to him. Good luck...


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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Sep 13, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> im offended by their beliefs, not free speech. those crosses do nothing but to show that christianity is correct and you should submit now while you have the chance, if you havent already. i dont think its okay to spread ignorance and submission, and those big crosses on the side of the highway are a symbol of that.
> 
> i dont see a problem with an advertisement for a bar or club because they are a business that needs customers. religion on the other hand doesnt NEED more customers. they only feel the need to get more because they believe their god said to spread the word. they think it is righteous when they get more people to join them. they think it is a good thing that more people believe the lies they believe.


Seriously????? You are offended by other peoples feelings? Huh?

Hang on I got some offending to do.


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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Sep 13, 2011)




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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Sep 13, 2011)




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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Sep 13, 2011)




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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Sep 13, 2011)




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## otheryoda (Sep 13, 2011)

One word, ALIENS!!!! They show up, it all ends. Faith does not equal Truth. Its the belief in something without proof.


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Finally a real debate from you. Alright I have to agree with you that there would be no more atrocities in the name of god (which I have already admitted and I have stated I don't agree with using religion to justify your actions). I have stated I don't represent the crusades or Spanish inquisitors. So yes you are right and I never twisted away from that, I never said your previously imaginary argument was false. My argument all along was that religion shouldn't be eradicated as a whole. Anyways do you believe that these people would not have found a way to create other atrocities? People that claim they do these evil/cruel acts because their religion wants them too are either evil for following that religion or are lying hypocrites for blaming their religion. So my point is that either way these people would have made a way to control a certain group with or without religion. There has been many atheist dictatorships (not saying their atrocities were motivated by their atheism), but my point is that they did not need religion to create atrocities. And the reason I asked where is your evidence is because you never posted any evidence nor argument so I was curious to what evidence you were referring to. So in conclusion yes you are right and my new argument is that there would still be just as many atrocities in the world with or without religion.
> 
> 
> And don't complain about my insults towards your crappy spelling when you keep insulting Texas for no reason. And could you answer my question I previously asked? If you have a bad memory and simply forgot what question I'm referring to I will ask it again. Are those murders from Texas last year in the name of god?


Ah, Texas, now that is an arguable debate there on if the death penalty institution is motivated through Christian ideology. I would say yes...nut that wasnt my point and a WHOLE other argument. The reason i mentioned it was to highlight the correlation between areas of intense religious beliefs and intense craziness, like leading the world in executions from the land of the free. My reference to Texas wasn't to argue that Texas does it because of their extreme religious devotion (even though I do believe that) it was to show extremism walking hand in hand with extremism.

you asked," Anyways do you believe that these people would not have found a way to create other atrocities?" I believe that other atrocities throughout the course of humanity would happen certainly even despite the absence of religion. I dont claim that the absence of religion would make the world a PERFECT place, only a BETTER one. However, one atrocity less is always a good thing no? Furthermore, on these specific atrocities, they never would have happened without religion to begin with, so for these specific ones i see to reason to assume that another atrocity would happen in its exact place in substitute. THOSE THINGS HAPPENED SOLELY BECAUSE OF RELIGION. Their absence would have made the world better.

You said, "People that claim they do these evil/cruel acts because their religion wants them too are either evil for following that religion or are lying hypocrites for blaming their religion." It is a convenient stance to take to say that anyone who does something bad in the name of god was never representing that religion to begin with (despite the perpetrators statement that it does) If bad happens because of religion, it HAPPENS BECAUSE OF RELIGION. it is an objection to your belief, that is why you are finding coping methods, like denial, to say they are unrelated.

you said, "Alright I have to agree with you that there would be no more atrocities in the name of god" then you say ,"my new argument is that there would still be just as many atrocities in the world with or without religion." So if there are one or two fewer attrocities due to the lack of religion, (in reality hundreds more), isnt that FEWER ATROCITIES?

You have basically agreed, despite your recognition of such, that the world would have been a better place without those atrocities, which were due to religion, and would never have happened if religion was not present. In texas terms, that means the world would have been a better place if religion hadnt occurred. You know that feeling that just happened in your brain, a combination of frustration and denial...thats what we call coping.

your turn curly


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## tyler.durden (Sep 13, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> You have basically agreed, despite your recognition of such, that the world would have been a better place without those atrocities, which were due to religion, and would never have happened if religion was not present. In texas terms, that means the world would have been a better place if religion hadnt occurred. You know that feeling that just happened in your brain, a combination of frustration and denial...thats what we call coping.
> 
> your turn curly


Love your sig, that would scare the living shit outta me...


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## otheryoda (Sep 13, 2011)

[video=youtube;55h1FO8V_3w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55h1FO8V_3w[/video]


My pie got is better than your cake god..... YUM CAKE!!! BRB.


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## Heisenberg (Sep 13, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> I wonder what it is about atheism that bothers him so much that he invests so much time and energy into posting about it. Start a blog already for fuck sakes!


Ha, and you know what, I'd read it! I love for oly to get his own public access show. Maybe even some youtube vids. The rainbow sprinkler lady gets old after a while.

[video=youtube;aIYZvr3ueGw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIYZvr3ueGw[/video]



Luger187 said:


> i think they should be able to express their beliefs. but at some point it becomes ridiculous, you know? if someone wanted to put billboards up that said bigfoot exists, i wouldnt have a problem with the billboard itself, but rather the idea behind the billboard. especially if that belief was as widespread and ingrained as christianity is in america. and ontop of that, the only thing they had was 'faith' and this book that says hes real and is mostly third person accounts of events.
> for these reasons, i would not agree with it. i do not think we should go around taking down crosses or anything. i just think they shouldnt be there in the first place because people shouldnt believe such things


Great response Luger. Now hep can stop accusing you of denying free speech to Christians. 



tyler.durden said:


> Great idea, Heis. I've never experienced a creature quite like Oly, not even among small children. There is absolutely no value, merit, style or substance to anything he has to say, so I recently stopped replying to his posts about/to me altogether. Not even his fellow theists seem to respect or listen to him, and I've never seen that before. I really respect other theists on this forum, their beliefs are usually well thought out, they contribute interesting ideas and they sometimes even admit when they are wrong. I originally thought Oly wasn't getting what we were saying, so I tried to make my points in simpler and simpler ways, as I do with children. I've come to believe that he does understand all of our points (the same way I believe that he dresses and feeds himself), but chooses to run from his comprehension. It's not that he doesn't see, but that he WON'T see (there's none so blind as those who will not see), and there's nothing to be gained by interacting with someone who makes that choice. His ranting smacks of desperation, it is not us he is trying to convince, but himself. I didn't know about the ignore feature, I'm going to figure out how to do this now, sorry you have to absorb his lunacy as mod. If he ever actually contributes something worthwhile, I'll know it from your response to him. Good luck...


Didn't mean to complain about my situation. I'm glad to help even if it means suffering olys wrath. No need to be so confused about olys mentality, his is just an extreme case of cognitive dissonance reduction coupled with partiality bias and void of discerning logic. But you're right, it is exciting to see one in the wild!


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 13, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> When did you become an adult?
> 
> 
> Last i checked, you all asked for negatives of atheism and posted not 1, but 10 dudes who did some fucked up shit. Now, did they do cause they felt no restraint or value for human cause they were atheists, or did they do it cause they hate believers like you all do?
> ...


you make the assumption that having no religion means that you have no ethics or moral values. You assume that because these people, some of whom actually were thiests, did these things because they lacked the love of jesus. The answer to each individual case can be found in history books, as to why they did it I mean. Making a simple assumption that they did it because they weren't christians shows a huge level of ignorance for history as a whole.

the reason people are asking you how old you are is because you are using reasoning methods that we all remember using in highschool. Seriously. You argue with the methods that teenagers use. And thats not meant ass a slam, but an explanation.


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## Luger187 (Sep 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Finally a real debate from you. Alright I have to agree with you that there would be no more atrocities in the name of god (which I have already admitted and I have stated I don't agree with using religion to justify your actions). I have stated I don't represent the crusades or Spanish inquisitors. So yes you are right and I never twisted away from that, I never said your previously imaginary argument was false. My argument all along was that religion shouldn't be eradicated as a whole. Anyways do you believe that these people would not have found a way to create other atrocities? People that claim they do these evil/cruel acts because their religion wants them too are either evil for following that religion or are lying hypocrites for blaming their religion. So my point is that either way these people would have made a way to control a certain group with or without religion. There has been many atheist dictatorships (not saying their atrocities were motivated by their atheism), but my point is that they did not need religion to create atrocities. And the reason I asked where is your evidence is because you never posted any evidence nor argument so I was curious to what evidence you were referring to. So in conclusion yes you are right and my new argument is that there would still be just as many atrocities in the world with or without religion.


it is true that religion isnt needed to start a movement that leads to evil. however it makes it much easier. when 85% of the people believe in chrisianity(for example), it is easy to use that to gain political momentum. you can create religious hysteria. you may even have your citizens snitching on neighbors for crazy reasons, which may or may not be true(doesnt really matter does it?). if you truly believe your god is demanding you to do an action, you are more likely to commit that action, be it good or bad. take the islamic jihadists. i doubt very many of them would blow themselves up in the name of allah if allah didnt exist. if he didnt have heaven and killing the infidels as a reason, what other reason could he have to justify the murder of himself and the other people?

now, if a country does not have a major religion or you dont want to use religion to take control, what do you use? 
race? everyone may be the same race since they come from the same place. not so much anymore, so it could be used to push a white vs. black agenda for example. or in an environment like todays america, someone could use the islamaphobia and the whole border security issue to rile up the people.
economic class? you could make the poor hate the rich or vice versa.
fear? if the people think the communists are after them, maybe theyll let the government have more control to 'protect' them.
im trying to think of other methods but im too baked. anyone want to add to the list?


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 13, 2011)

tyler.durden said:


> Love your sig, that would scare the living shit outta me...


THANKS!! thats what I said but my wife just thought i was being stupid.... If i big ole spider mite showed up at my place askin for candy...I'd punch him in his ugly face and say , "your kind aint welcome here...now get goin!"


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 13, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> it is true that religion isnt needed to start a movement that leads to evil. however it makes it much easier. when 85% of the people believe in chrisianity(for example), it is easy to use that to gain political momentum. you can create religious hysteria. you may even have your citizens snitching on neighbors for crazy reasons, which may or may not be true(doesnt really matter does it?). if you truly believe your god is demanding you to do an action, you are more likely to commit that action, be it good or bad. take the islamic jihadists. i doubt very many of them would blow themselves up in the name of allah if allah didnt exist. if he didnt have heaven and killing the infidels as a reason, what other reason could he have to justify the murder of himself and the other people?
> 
> now, if a country does not have a major religion or you dont want to use religion to take control, what do you use?
> race? everyone may be the same race since they come from the same place. not so much anymore, so it could be used to push a white vs. black agenda for example. or in an environment like todays america, someone could use the islamaphobia and the whole border security issue to do rile up the people.
> ...


Uh-oh curly bill...you're up on the ropes now, better come out swingin!


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## otheryoda (Sep 13, 2011)

Fear of gnomes. That would take out people with beards, people with pointy hats. Without them we would not have to buy new underwear.


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## Luger187 (Sep 13, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Ha, and you know what, I'd read it! I love for oly to get his own public access show. Maybe even some youtube vids. The rainbow sprinkler lady gets old after a while.
> 
> [video=youtube;aIYZvr3ueGw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIYZvr3ueGw[/video]
> 
> ...


that video is so fuckin funny!
and thanks


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## tyler.durden (Sep 13, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> THANKS!! thats what I said but my wife just thought i was being stupid.... If i big ole spider mite showed up at my place askin for candy...I'd punch him in his ugly face and say , "your kind aint welcome here...now get goin!"


Of course if someone were afraid of you in that costume, you'd know they grow weed


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## Luger187 (Sep 13, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> THANKS!! thats what I said but my wife just thought i was being stupid.... If i big ole spider mite showed up at my place askin for candy...I'd punch him in his ugly face and say , "your kind aint welcome here...now get goin!"


haha what if you showed up at a growers house and he starts spraying you with neem oil?
have you ever looked at a spider mite under a microscope? they are scary as fuck and have red eyes haha


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Ah, Texas, now that is an arguable debate there on if the death penalty institution is motivated through Christian ideology. I would say yes...nut that wasnt my point and a WHOLE other argument. The reason i mentioned it was to highlight the correlation between areas of intense religious beliefs and intense craziness, like leading the world in executions from the land of the free. My reference to Texas wasn't to argue that Texas does it because of their extreme religious devotion (even though I do believe that) it was to show extremism walking hand in hand with extremism.
> 
> you asked," Anyways do you believe that these people would not have found a way to create other atrocities?" I believe that other atrocities throughout the course of humanity would happen certainly even despite the absence of religion. I dont claim that the absence of religion would make the world a PERFECT place, only a BETTER one. However, one atrocity less is always a good thing no? Furthermore, on these specific atrocities, they never would have happened without religion to begin with, so for these specific ones i see to reason to assume that another atrocity would happen in its exact place in substitute. THOSE THINGS HAPPENED SOLELY BECAUSE OF RELIGION. Their absence would have made the world better.
> 
> ...


If you can't see my response check the quote.


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## Luger187 (Sep 13, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Uh-oh curly bill...you're up on the ropes now, better come out swingin!


im just trying to show that those are seperate issues, and have nothing to do with atheism


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Ha, and you know what, I'd read it! I love for oly to get his own public access show. Maybe even some youtube vids. The rainbow sprinkler lady gets old after a while.
> 
> [video=youtube;aIYZvr3ueGw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIYZvr3ueGw[/video]
> 
> ...


This won't stop me of accusing Luger of denying free speech to Christians. For religious people it's like saying I don't have a problem with people believing in science but they shouldn't teach it in schools because that's not right. That would be an asshole move just like saying Christians can express themselves but they shouldn't.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Uh-oh curly bill...you're up on the ropes now, better come out swingin!


How am I up on the ropes? He's just listing ways that atrocities could have been created without religion.


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## Heisenberg (Sep 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> This won't stop me of accusing Luger of denying free speech to Christians. For religious people it's like saying I don't have a problem with people believing in science but they shouldn't teach it in schools because that's not right. That would be an asshole move just like saying Christians can express themselves but they shouldn't.


There is nothing wrong with saying someone can express themselves but shouldn't. That is the same as saying, I don't agree with your opinion but I agree with your right to have it. If someone thought science was evil, they have a right to express that they don't want it in the classrooms. What would you say about KKK and God Hates Fags people? Do you agree with what they are saying? Do you feel they shouldn't say it? Do you, in spite of that, feel they have the right to say it?


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## tyler.durden (Sep 13, 2011)

In coming up with answers for the OP, we've seen that education, skepticism and critical thinking may be key. Open ridicule may help: Sam Harris uses a great analogy that if one were to claim that they believed that Elvis was still alive in any social situation, a job interview, first date, they would be openly ridiculed by almost everyone. This would happen so often that even if one were to believe Elvis still lived, they would rarely, if ever, express this belief. I think humor would also assist in this goal. I love a comedy troop entitled Mr. Deity, and I've never seen them come up on this forum, so I thought you gents would love the good natured and intelligent way that they take on all the contradictions of christianity. Enjoy!

[video=youtube;6gnQz32c5EA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gnQz32c5EA[/video]

[video=youtube;2Clm6nlWxzc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Clm6nlWxzc[/video]

[video=youtube;UaZDcS-rMf4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaZDcS-rMf4[/video]

P.S. Larry is the Holy Ghost, named after Larry Fine of the 3 stooges


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## Luger187 (Sep 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> This won't stop me of accusing Luger of denying free speech to Christians. For religious people it's like saying I don't have a problem with people believing in science but they shouldn't teach it in schools because that's not right. That would be an asshole move just like saying Christians can express themselves but they shouldn't.


except the difference is science has massive catologs of data to back itself up and christianity has nothing. science should be taught in schools because it is a great way of verifying facts.
christians are free to express themselves. i just dont think they should believe in the nonsense they do, and shouldnt spread their nonsense to others that might not have the capabilities to discern fact from fiction


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## Filthy Phil (Sep 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> How am I up on the ropes? He's just listing ways that atrocities could have been created without religion.


Ugh... You just cant see it...its like one of those 3d images, some people just cant see it. Its all good.


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## Heisenberg (Sep 13, 2011)

[video=youtube;UHW6nsKbW0Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHW6nsKbW0Q[/video]


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> except the difference is science has massive catologs of data to back itself up and christianity has nothing. science should be taught in schools because it is a great way of verifying facts.
> christians are free to express themselves. i just dont think they should believe in the nonsense they do, and shouldnt spread their nonsense to others that might not have the capabilities to discern fact from fiction


So you're saying Christians shouldn't express their nonsense "beliefs". To me that sounds like you believe they shouldn't express what they believe. Which means you don't believe Christians should have freedom of speech when it comes to their religion.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> Ugh... You just cant see it...its like one of those 3d images, some people just cant see it. Its all good.


So are we done with your little pointless religious atrocities argument?


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## Luger187 (Sep 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So you're saying Christians shouldn't express their nonsense "beliefs". To me that sounds like you believe they shouldn't express what they believe. Which means you don't believe Christians should have freedom of speech when it comes to their religion.


no. i think they shouldnt be believing in their religion because it has no standing in reality


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## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Dude, are you really that dumb? Texas with a world record in executions! Hahahahaha, man you dumb atheist, does that mean all atheists are dumb?


Oh, turden, you are seriously on the verge of insanity, but ill get you through rep if you got me on ignore, but you know you cant ignore cause you want to feel supfeme






Filthy Phil said:


> Ah, Texas, now that is an arguable debate there on if the death penalty institution is motivated through Christian ideology. I would say yes...nut that wasnt my point and a WHOLE other argument. The reason i mentioned it was to highlight the correlation between areas of intense religious beliefs and intense craziness, like leading the world in executions from the land of the free. My reference to Texas wasn't to argue that Texas does it because of their extreme religious devotion (even though I do believe that) it was to show extremism walking hand in hand with extremism.
> 
> you asked," Anyways do you believe that these people would not have found a way to create other atrocities?" I believe that other atrocities throughout the course of humanity would happen certainly even despite the absence of religion. I dont claim that the absence of religion would make the world a PERFECT place, only a BETTER one. However, one atrocity less is always a good thing no? Furthermore, on these specific atrocities, they never would have happened without religion to begin with, so for these specific ones i see to reason to assume that another atrocity would happen in its exact place in substitute. THOSE THINGS HAPPENED SOLELY BECAUSE OF RELIGION. Their absence would have made the world better.
> 
> ...


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## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Hahahahaha, you really cant tell the sarcasm right? Works all the time.






Filthy Phil said:


> you make the assumption that having no religion means that you have no ethics or moral values. You assume that because these people, some of whom actually were thiests, did these things because
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## olylifter420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Hep, its funny how he dont reply to me saying im offended by him being gay.

They also get mad when i make the assumption(just like they do about all believers being religious nut jobs anfd thinking im some.ignoramous) that since God doesnt like gays all gays are atheist, therefore all atheists must be gay since they hate God and religion.







Hepheastus420 said:


> This won't stop me of accusing Luger of denying free speech to Christians. For religious people it's like saying I don't have a problem with people believing in science but they shouldn't teach it in schools because that's not right. That would be an asshole move just like saying Christians can express themselves but they shouldn't.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 13, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> Hep, its funny how he dont reply to me saying im offended by him being gay.
> 
> They also get mad when i make the assumption(just like they do about all believers being religious nut jobs anfd thinking im some.ignoramous) that since God doesnt like gays all gays are atheist, therefore all atheists must be gay since they hate God and religion.


Yes I agree that some atheists think all religious people are religious nut jobs, ha. Heis describes them as skeptics or debunkers.
Was that their logic? You know the whole if you're this then you must be that.


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## Luger187 (Sep 13, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> you guys are reallynot worth all this trouble. Go ahead, believe what you want. And yes oly, you stupid son of a lose whore, texas, per capita, does lead the world. Texas is like one big fuking joke to the rest of the world, you backward ass hicks. You guys win this thread, its not worth my emotion. Celebrations are yours...for now. Celebrations will be mine when we get to hunt you down to the last man, have you burned alive and thrown into a mass grave where I can piss on the crushed skulls of your stupid, worthlessly sad, shitheaded lives. Fuck you, fuck your mother, fuck jesus with a rusty fork, fuck your god, I piss down the throat of your christian dogma. You are loads that should have been swallowed and I look forward to the day I can look down on your grave, laugh, and whip my dick out to piss on the remains of your family and all the other christians who will take the brunt of payback for 15oo years of your STUPID FUCKING RELIGIOUS BULLSHIT. FUCK YOU! I look forward to that day with even more anticipation than I woke up with this morning. Filthy OUT!


that should change their opinions


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 13, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> you guys are reallynot worth all this trouble. Go ahead, believe what you want. And yes oly, you stupid son of a lose whore, texas, per capita, does lead the world. Texas is like one big fuking joke to the rest of the world, you backward ass hicks. You guys win this thread, its not worth my emotion. Celebrations are yours...for now. Celebrations will be mine when we get to hunt you down to the last man, have you burned alive and thrown into a mass grave where I can piss on the crushed skulls of your stupid, worthlessly sad, shitheaded lives. Fuck you, fuck your mother, fuck jesus with a rusty fork, fuck your god, I piss down the throat of your christian dogma. You are loads that should have been swallowed and I look forward to the day I can look down on your grave, laugh, and whip my dick out to piss on the remains of your family and all the other christians who will take the brunt of payback for 15oo years of your STUPID FUCKING RELIGIOUS BULLSHIT. FUCK YOU! I look forward to that day with even more anticipation than I woke up with this morning. Filthy OUT!


Yes so we are not worth the trouble when you are the litlle child who can't handle when people have separate beliefs. I'm sure you're a troll but you're hilarious when you get all butt hurt, ha. Go suck a dick and shut up, hahahahaha. Oh and I'm sure you can't hunt us down because we have the crusades on our side, dipshit. So fuck your grandma your mom and your dad bitch, haha look I'm acting like you.


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## tyler.durden (Sep 13, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> you guys are reallynot worth all this trouble. Go ahead, believe what you want. And yes oly, you stupid son of a lose whore, texas, per capita, does lead the world. Texas is like one big fuking joke to the rest of the world, you backward ass hicks. You guys win this thread, its not worth my emotion. Celebrations are yours...for now. Celebrations will be mine when we get to hunt you down to the last man, have you burned alive and thrown into a mass grave where I can piss on the crushed skulls of your stupid, worthlessly sad, shitheaded lives. Fuck you, fuck your mother, fuck jesus with a rusty fork, fuck your god, I piss down the throat of your christian dogma. You are loads that should have been swallowed and I look forward to the day I can look down on your grave, laugh, and whip my dick out to piss on the remains of your family and all the other christians who will take the brunt of payback for 15oo years of your STUPID FUCKING RELIGIOUS BULLSHIT. FUCK YOU! I look forward to that day with even more anticipation than I woke up with this morning. Filthy OUT!



Wow. That wasn't one for our side. I think you guys broke his brain...


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 14, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> that should change their opinions


Yeah you know someone is already grouping him with all the atheists, ha.


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## Underthelight (Sep 14, 2011)

What do you religious folks think God thinks as he watches all this craziness he created chug merrily along? Or why does God never show up and clear all the confusion up? Compared to creating the entire universe I would think he could spend just a min or two and clear this all up for us? He really cheeped out on his whole explanation thing and what we are supposedly supposed to base our life around compared to the rest of the wonders of universe he played with as a side project.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 14, 2011)

Underthelight said:


> What do you religious folks think God thinks as he watches all this craziness he created chug merrily along? Or why does God never show up and clear all the confusion up? Compared to creating the entire universe I would think he could spend just a min or two and clear this all up for us? He really cheeped out on his whole explanation thing and what we are supposedly supposed to base our life around compared to the rest of the wonders of universe he played with as a side project.


I don't know ask god when you see him.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 14, 2011)

Underthelight said:


> What do you religious folks think God thinks as he watches all this craziness he created chug merrily along? Or why does God never show up and clear all the confusion up? Compared to creating the entire universe I would think he could spend just a min or two and clear this all up for us? He really cheeped out on his whole explanation thing and what we are supposedly supposed to base our life around compared to the rest of the wonders of universe he played with as a side project.


I don't know ask god when you see him.


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## Underthelight (Sep 14, 2011)

*How Do We Eradicate Religion From Modern Society?


Final Answer: Clearly impossible.

*


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## Farfenugen (Sep 14, 2011)

invent a new religion with some other means of teaching morality, but base it on personal choice not organised or with big hatted men in robed gold to tell us how to live


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## olylifter420 (Sep 14, 2011)

Wow! I thought i was rough around the edges, lol!


Oh, and you prob dont know what per capita means, check china out on executions..


Originally Posted by Filthy Phil you guys are reallynot worth all this trouble. Go ahead, believe what you want. And yes oly, you stupid son of a lose whore, texas, per capita, does lead the world. Texas is like one big fuking joke to the rest of the world, you backward ass hicks. You guys win this thread, its not worth my emotion. Celebrations are yours...for now. Celebrations will be mine when we get to hunt you down to the last man, have you burned alive and thrown into a mass grave where I can piss on the crushed skulls of your stupid, worthlessly sad, shitheaded lives. Fuck you, fuck your mother, fuck jesus with a rusty fork, fuck your god, I piss down the throat of your christian dogma. You are loads that should have been swallowed and I look forward to the day I can look down on your grave, laugh, and whip my dick out to piss on the remains of your family and all the other christians who will take the brunt of payback for 15oo years of your STUPID FUCKING RELIGIOUS BULLSHIT. FUCK YOU! I look forward to that day with even more anticipation than I woke up with this morning. Filthy OUT!


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## cannabineer (Sep 15, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> Oh, and you prob dont know what per capita means, check china out on executions..


"per decapita"?
cheers 'neer


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## troylamonte (Sep 18, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> wich god is it that you believe and why is it you chose that god and not any of the other thousands of gods ?
> and why dont you leave us alone , stop building your places of worship , and stop indoctrinating our children , then we can call a truse .


the fact that our buildings and all that we do bothers u show no love. so why would i want to imitate or emulate u or ur actions. we should live in love and harmony bearing one another. u suggest strife, violence, hatred, animosity, and the like. why would i want to be grouped or in ur association. if i beleive the wrong thing or wat u dont beleive i am subject to anythingfrom u up to death.


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## troylamonte (Sep 18, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> there are many gods with the same teachings. budhists take the whole peace thing a lot further. they include animals, instead of seeing animals as things to be used for the benefit of humans.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


if u want to get the word out u advertise. we r charged with hearalding the gospel the good news. like anything advertized if u dont use or need it dont buy it. i don't need tampons or any of that female stuff but see that there is an audience that use the products. so respect those that use the product of what Jesus accomplished and love to see when it is advertised! one opinion is for one not the whole (2 billion followers)


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## troylamonte (Sep 18, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> ive been through texas about 5 times and have seen them myself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


facts me can provide. the facts are all around you, on u in u. logic is reasoning and your reasonings are not on par to understand, u cant even fathom the ocean deep or the universe or even our bodies. evidence; well u see but wont see, u'll hear but not hear. and faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. u cant fill old wineskins with new wine. u cant fill an already full glass. explaining and proving my relationship wont help develop your relationship with God. u see u dont understand that with which u r skeptical. u must come as a new born babe hence born again! babies dont come knowing and intellectually process with fully developed knowledge base (no matter how flawed). trust and beleive


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## troylamonte (Sep 18, 2011)

dam612 said:


> i live in america and can honestly say that we are on the decline as well with religion. havent been to church in like 15 years and only know a handful of people who do. most;y eldr people stuck in their ways. i think the younger society realize its all bs, and most people i know only went as far as they had to make confirmation bc if you dont you cant get married in a church. i have no intentions of getting married in a church but it was imposed upon me to go to religion classes for such reasons, and as a child i did as i was told.


Gods kingdom is not on the decline. the world is though and who will people trust. trust between people is eroding at exponential rates. where will people go to find peace rest, love. every man for himself. paranoia. im sorry i refuse to live that way. people let u down and there is no joy, peace, but i maintain mine. I will keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Me (GOD). let no man rob u of ur peace. I can exist, love, give to, help man expecting nothing from him but my Father in Heaven. but others get mad at the person, hate envy, expet the person to do for them. it all creates problems humans arent able to handle because of the barrage and tenacity in which affliction comes. u have problems an how u handle and hide them is in a human nature way. ur trails and troubles serve to help others but we r a society/nation/world of secrets. how do u think this will play out to get better if you say we r declining? what does the athesits say, how does the world play out? do we decline, or get better. destruction or reconstruction. and if so on what planet? you answer some questions for us. what is ur grand plan for man the world? what should we believe in? convince me ther is no hope, no God, and u people have a plan, a future.


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## troylamonte (Sep 18, 2011)

Dizzle Frost said:


> well put man, that pisses me off to...people are to weak to fight cancer..but religion somehow gives em the power to. the human mind is the most powerful thing a person can own.


can u will anything of substance in ur life, on ur body, u have no power. if so the use the other 90% of ur brain. do that in ur power. u have problems and how u handle them demonstrates tha u arent perfect and so arent responsible for one thing that is here on earth naturally or in the universe. fact is we kinow noone that has ever seen the other billion galaxies but we continually purport their existence. u purport and propagate things u have heard bu not seen for ur self.


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## troylamonte (Sep 18, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> Maybe one day you will provide some evidence to back this claim up. The null hypothesis being that without religion, billions of people would lead worse lives.
> To answer the second question first and that is that most atheists are not tyrannical and would prefer religion go away because of enlightenment and not forced away at the point of a gun.
> 
> We have been around and around with this before but I believe that claim that religion is not harmful has been shown to be false many times in many threads. At the very least it leads to sloppy thinking and the erroneous belief that blind faith is a positive attribute. These ideas damage society from within.


history shows that man, man has ruin everything he has come into conact with. man has ruined the earth, man has taken Gods Kingdom principals, statues and laws and have been terrible ambassadors. religion is not of God, religion (diversity of beliefs) is of the prince of the world. God is a God of love and relationship. individualism is harmful because u force on me wat u think and deride and kill me for my beliefs. thats history not Gods plan for us. we have free choice thats why u able to believe the way u do and others have their beliefs to. whos right? we will see until then why not love, respectand help one another.


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## troylamonte (Sep 18, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> I worry that possibly we may never get rid of it as it is a side effect of peoples inability to understand chain of events and ultimate causality,its a coping method to make sense of that which we dont really understand but always wonder about. Socialogically speaking,aside from those with anxiety disorders or ocd etc., people are more likely to be more superstitious the less educated they are. This ties in with what I was saying previously. I do believe though that as information and science pushes forward it will help to reduce the amount of rediculousness. Think for example how a long time ago people jsed to think that thunder was ghe sound of an angry god and such. Now, as science.has helped assure us, we know this is not the case. But to ask people to stop with the religios rediculousness is equal to asking people to get smarter faster. Sorry if I sound pompous, but this is just my opinion. We just need to leave them alone and politely insist they give us the same courtisy. If they arent in your face with it,then I dont hate them, only feel bad for them. Compassion is the answer for now and probably a while to come...IMO


so who created all that that unitelligent man back then saw and heard and experienced? who created the intelligence that we know have? what about the things we still don't know. is an intelligent man(one who knows something) better than an ignarant man(whos not quite familiar). u sir subscrie to the worlds opinion and view and i tend to beleive that there is something better. u continue in ur vain boundless pursuits in hopes that man as he get more intelligent he becomes more moral, social and humane. I dont see that and history doesnt show that. if anything as man becomes more intelligent he seems to become more brutal, secretive, evil. I mean wat history are u looking at and can i have a pair of the rose colored glasses so I can view pollyannah!


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## troylamonte (Sep 18, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> A simple solution is getting rid of atheism and those who go against religion.


this is the harvest and our mission field. they will soon relent when they run out of reasoning and face insurmountable odds. after all when any one i have ever seen or heard experienced difficulty the say Jesus Christ or OMG or for the Love of God. they all eventually come to the Lord. every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord above all.


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## troylamonte (Sep 18, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> for the last time, the big bang theory is just our best theory at the moment. we dont know what was before the big bang. but just because we dont know DOES NOT give us the right to suggest we do know a god did it. that sounds MUCH more ridiculous. especially considering you have NOTHING to even suggest it is true. and even if that god did exist, why do you think he would give a shit about us? we are EXTREMELY insignificant in the universe.
> 
> edit: just like if i were to say that i know for a fact what happened before the big bang. there was a spaghetti god that combined with some special god sauce. then a reaction occurred, and a new universe came forth from the god sauce. we are that universe. i know this happened because i have this old book here that tells me. the spaghetti god came down and talked to people, and they wrote the book. i have faith, and you should too.
> how stupid does that sound? that is exactly what the religious do. they say they know for a fact, but they have ZERO backup for their claims. and their excuse for it all is that they have faith. its utter bullshit


i beleive in God, Jesus, and the big bang. after all God had to do it some how. the precarious and intricate way in which all things the science of it chemically, physically God use element to make all things possible. after all ur composed of elements and the beath of God. someone is responsible, and continues to be responsible to keep things in alignment when man corrupts it. again man corrupts.


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## Luger187 (Sep 18, 2011)

troylamonte said:


> i beleive in God, Jesus, and the big bang. after all God had to do it some how. the precarious and intricate way in which all things the science of it chemically, physically God use element to make all things possible. after all ur composed of elements and the beath of God. someone is responsible, and continues to be responsible to keep things in alignment when man corrupts it. again man corrupts.


we are made of atoms so god must have made the atoms right?!


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## blazinkill504 (Sep 18, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> we are made of atoms so god must have made the atoms right?!


that is nothin we can do on this earth asides burnin a shit ton of fuels that will change ANY alignment in our solar system

i would quote the wrong person. too high!


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## cannabineer (Sep 18, 2011)

I can change one alignment in our solar system. One of my front tires is wearing funny.
cheers 'neer


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## ganjafarmer357 (Sep 21, 2011)

if a kid wants to know ware we all came from, expand his mind with science. not the bible. we created this religion war lets leave our new generations out of it. let our new generations shape our world without the contrasts of religion. because obviously the bullshit everyone taught you mother fuckers aint workin so well for us, if you havnt noticed. everything we know is based on a tug and pull system. one guy pulls while someone else sits around telling him why hes wrong and then we kill eachother... now if we taught our kids about the universe and how things are created in nature there brains would then solve problems together in our world and universe instead of arguing about a god and waiting for him to come save us. religion is war because thats what it is based off of. every one is just to stupid to realize it because its been disguised so well now


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## blazinkill504 (Sep 21, 2011)

troylamonte said:


> this is the harvest and our mission field. they will soon relent when they run out of reasoning and face insurmountable odds. after all when any one i have ever seen or heard experienced difficulty the say Jesus Christ or OMG or for the Love of God. they all eventually come to the Lord. every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord above all.


get rid of atheism???? you need to focus more on gettin the person you worship down before you start trhin to get rid of the only ppl who took a step back from religion and went HOLY FUCK THEY BEEN LYIN THIS WHOLE TIME. just as a little side not to see if you know..did you know that the jesus you worship is based off of like 4 other gods from other religions that were dated BEFORE jesus?


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 22, 2011)

Hi,

religion is not about church. This is an unfortunate misinterpretation. The reason churches have a declining population is because real religion is taking its place. Anyone who has made a real attempt at understanding this knows that the church is God's body ( = people in general). Churches were initially made to be communal structures. The money thing came after the templars lost control of banks to the 'money-changers'.

No God is a shitty one...whether muslim, christian or jewish. It's just a God. The tags added to it are man-made...God, or the planets, or the stars, were not. In other words, opinions - and we all know that those are like ash-holes, everyone has one to spew whatever kind of sht they want to. It's totally normal.

Create some fresh, brand new DNA for me..something no one has ever seen or known. Then I'll believe there is no God. I mean, create it from scratch without all of the matter we currently know of.

If you can't describe a protein, maybe best to veer away from describing God.


-eye

ps: right side of the brain = art and spirituality - left side = science and matter - in the middle of that is us. SO, go ahead and get rid of one or the other and see what happens. There would be nothing.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 22, 2011)

will this magical god step in and stop our sun from burning out when the time comes ? or will our sun just burn out like all the other millions of suns in space ?


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 22, 2011)

it will burn out - it's just the way it is. why do people feel God has to intervene to prove himself?


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 22, 2011)

can someone please create some DNA for us? I want someone to create DNA from nothing.


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## blazinkill504 (Sep 22, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> can someone please create some DNA for us? I want someone to create DNA from nothing.


im pretty sure they have scientist workin on that right now and i dunno how close they are but they're doin some pretty crazy stuff. as for your question above this one plain and simple...proof! thats all ppl ask for is proof and its never given. there is NOTHIN on this earth that can be directly linked to god. if you were lookin for a house and the real estate dude said yo we got this amazin house on yada yada street lets go look. then when you get there its just a blank lot im sure your response would be "wtf you said they had an amazin house here" and he says nah its there dude you just gotta believe it was there. its 250,000 for the house, you gonna accept that?


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## dababydroman (Sep 22, 2011)

proof of athiest going out of there way to try and make people not believe. witch is proof that they are jelouse of people of faith and wish they had some. witch is proof that they are insecure in what they believe in. and is proof that misery loves company.

if people are so athiest why do they care so much about what other believe in? its because they question them selfs if god is real or not.


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## blazinkill504 (Sep 22, 2011)

dababydroman said:


> proof of athiest going out of there way to try and make people not believe. witch is proof that they are jelouse of people of faith and wish they had some. witch is proof that they are insecure in what they believe in. and is proof that misery loves company.
> 
> if people are so athiest why do they care so much about what other believe in? its because they question them selfs if god is real or not.


or its because they see their fellow human race being lied to with the most outrageous stories out of a book of LITERATURE and people still believe it. maybe thats why. you wanna take shots at people who dont believe well lemme ask you this have you ever stepped out of your "i love jesus" bubble for any amount of time and thought maybe it could be wrong? or are you too scared that when you die you're gonna go into nothingness and you are beggin and prayin to somethin that isnt there to save you from that?


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## Heisenberg (Sep 22, 2011)

dababydroman said:


> proof of athiest going out of there way to try and make people not believe. witch is proof that they are jelouse of people of faith and wish they had some. witch is proof that they are insecure in what they believe in. and is proof that misery loves company.
> 
> if people are so athiest why do they care so much about what other believe in? its because they question them selfs if god is real or not.


Of course we question if god is real or not, how else does one arrive at atheism? I am quite happy as an atheist, and I know many others who are. An atheist is simply someone who remains unconvinced of the theists argument. It may be easier for you to blame jealousy and fight strawmen, but faith is believing for no other reason than you want to, which is certainly not a virtue I am interested in.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 23, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> or its because they see their fellow human race being lied to with the most outrageous stories out of a book of LITERATURE and people still believe it. maybe thats why. you wanna take shots at people who dont believe well lemme ask you this have you ever stepped out of your "i love jesus" bubble for any amount of time and thought maybe it could be wrong? or are you too scared that when you die you're gonna go into nothingness and you are beggin and prayin to somethin that isnt there to save you from that?


How do you know what happens when we die? Have you died and come back to life? That's pretty awesome that you are the only person in the world who knows what happens.

So you're saying religious people find comfort from religion and you wish to take away this comfort? Well that's rude.


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## tyler.durden (Sep 24, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> can someone please create some DNA for us? I want someone to create DNA from nothing.


Your wish was their command!

http://www.tuftscopejournal.org/issues/F10/articles/show/synthetic_life


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## Samwell Seed Well (Sep 24, 2011)

bryan adams


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## Zaehet Strife (Sep 24, 2011)

Almost all the questions of interest to speculative minds are such that science cannot answer, and the confident explanation of theologians no longer seem as convincing as they did in former centuries. Is the world divided into mind and matter, and if so&#8230; what is mind and what is matter? Is mind subject to matter, or is it possessed of independent powers? Has the universe any unity or purpose? Is it evolving towards some goal? Are there really laws of nature, or do we believe in them only because of our innate love for order? Is man what he seems to the astronomer? A tiny lump of impure carbon and water impotently crawling on a small unimportant planet? Is he perhaps both at once? 

Is there a way of living that is noble and another that is base? Or are all ways of living merely futile? If there is a way of living noble in what does it consist and how shall we achieve it? Must the good be eternal in order for it to be valued? Or is it worth seeking even if the universe inexorably moving towards death? Is there such a thing as wisdom, or is what seems such merely the ultimate refinement of folly?

To such questions, no answers can be found in the laboratory. Theologies have professed to give answers all too definitely&#8230; but there very definiteness causes modern minds to view them with suspicion. 

The studying of these questions, if not the answering of them is the businesses of philosophy.

Science can tell us what we can know, but what we can know is little, and if we forget how much we cannot know we become insensitive to many things of very great importance in the universe. 

Theology on the other hand induces the dogmatic belief that we have knowledge, where in fact we have ignorance, and by doing so generates a kind of impertinent insolence towards the universe.
*
Uncertainty in the presents of vivid hopes and fears is painful, but must be endured if we wish to live without the support of comforting fairy tales&#8230;&#8230;..*


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## XxHazexX (Sep 27, 2011)

unfortunately that will never be unless we of no religon rise and up and do away with those irrational belivers who cling to outdated and useless beliefs like the christains did to the pagens and how Homosapiens _SNUFFED OUT Homoeretus_ .we must eradicate and erase those religous leaders & sites to force them to conform and any one who can't must be swiftly be delt with for the grater good.Religon dose nothing but spraed igorance, hate & violence with a flase and empty promise of love and peace


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## Charlie Who? (Sep 27, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> In simple terms, the answer is education and promotion of critical thinking. With this approach not only can we eliminate the potential evil inherit to dogmatic religion, we can also preserve the benefits, such as hope, humanistic pride, and inspiration. The goal is not to eradicate the idea of god, but dogmatic adherence to certainty in God.


Very well said.
But All religions arent bad.

Just the ones that started in the middle east. In fact, of those three, (Jews, Mus, Christers), Jews aint even so bad. OK, so they believe they are "God's Chosen People", whatever that means. "Chosen" for what? Jews dont worry much about an afterlife---they focus on THIS life and stress education, morality and ethics, which is pretty reasonable. At least they're willing to wait and see what happens , if anything, after death and dont pretend to know who will get in to heaven and who wont.

But the other two, Christianity and Islam are the truly dangerous religions, because each of them claims to be the ONE "True" religion and feels perfectly justified in killing anybody who isnt one. Each believes they alone are right and ONLY they will get into heaven (or Paradise, as the case may be). 

Because of their conviction of being the ONLY "true" religion, those fuckers are equally nits.

Buddhists are cool. They believe in Karma, as do the Hidnus. What goes around comes around and reincarnation eventually balances good and evil. What's wrong with that?
Neither of those two believe everybody BIT them are "damned", bad and evil.

Then there are the Nature oriented religions of Adrica, Australia Aborigines, south American Indians, Native Americans, Enuits, et. They see God in every part of nature--animals, water, the earth itself. They revere and respect all of Nature. They dont destroy any part of it.

What's wrong with that?

It's the chriatians and the mus that are seriously fucked up, dangerous and five minutes past midnight on the Crazy Clock.

Get rid of those two and everybody else will get along fine.

CW


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 27, 2011)

Charlie Who? said:


> Very well said.
> But All religions arent bad.
> 
> Just the ones that started in the middle east. In fact, of those three, (Jews, Mus, Christers), Jews aint even so bad. OK, so they believe they are "God's Chosen People", whatever that means. "Chosen" for what?



I'm not pushing a belief here, to be clear. I agree with a lot of your points. On to the post: my understanding is that 'chosen people' are chosen thoughts... those that move the human populous forward 'in the mind of god' - which to me (at present) is the cosmos.


Wow, did I ever pick the wrong file to work on today... lol


ps: you bring up the 'Hindus'... It is clear to me that they have a grasp on science that most don't have. Yet, at the core of their 'beliefs' is a blue man, a woman with more arms than me, and an elephant that removes obstacles. 

Variations of the same principles across the board.

I wonder also why Nataraja is standing in the form of a statue on the grounds at cern.


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## Padawanbater2 (Sep 27, 2011)

XxHazexX said:


> unfortunately that will never be unless we of no religon rise and up and do away with those irrational belivers who cling to outdated and useless beliefs like the christains did to the pagens and how Homosapiens _SNUFFED OUT Homoeretus_ .we must eradicate and erase those religous leaders & sites to force them to conform and any one who can't must be swiftly be delt with for the grater good.Religon dose nothing but spraed igorance, hate & violence with a flase and empty promise of love and peace


This is just about the worst idea yet. "Force them to conform"? You're kidding right? Substitute one extremely oppressive establishment for another? That doesn't sound like a very good plan. You can't force someone to believe something. The only way is through education and letting people figure things out for themselves.


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## Heisenberg (Sep 27, 2011)

Charlie Who? said:


> Very well said.
> But All religions arent bad.
> 
> Just the ones that started in the middle east. In fact, of those three, (Jews, Mus, Christers), Jews aint even so bad. OK, so they believe they are "God's Chosen People", whatever that means. "Chosen" for what? Jews dont worry much about an afterlife---they focus on THIS life and stress education, morality and ethics, which is pretty reasonable. At least they're willing to wait and see what happens , if anything, after death and dont pretend to know who will get in to heaven and who wont.
> ...


I was careful to single out dogmatic adherence. Any religion which forbids dispute and requires the surrender of the mind to unreasonable ideas is equally as bad as the other. When people train their brain that it is okay to believe some things based on no evidence or reasoning, the potential for great evil is always there. Even beliefs that seem benign have this potential. 100 years ago the belief that the soul enters the body at the moment of conception seemed silly, but harmless enough. Enter medical abortions and stem cell research, and now we have a benign belief that is causing misery and costing lives, not to mention allowing people to perceive they have an authority to dictate other's lives. That authority often leads to totalitarian mentality. If we took the top three religions away, there are dozens of others waiting to take their place. The enemy is not God, the enemy is not worship of god, the enemy is the certainty in ideas that can not possibly be supported. When people profess to know more than they can possibly know and do so with absolute conviction. It's when people use that conviction to justify actions, to govern their social interactions, and to influence decisions in social and public policy that problems arise. Nothing could be more irresponsible or indecent than that. The solution to these problems is not exclusion, suppression or eradication of religious ideas, but encouragement of doubt and critical analysis of those ideas. This includes giving people the tools they need to think skeptically and unbiased about all ideas, religion being only one.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 27, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I was careful to single out dogmatic adherence. Any religion which forbids dispute and requires the surrender of the mind to unreasonable ideas is equally as bad as the other. When people train their brain that it is okay to believe some things based on no evidence or reasoning, the potential for great evil is always there. Even beliefs that seem benign have this potential. 100 years ago the belief that the soul enters the body at the moment of conception seemed silly, but harmless enough. Enter medical abortions and stem cell research, and now we have a benign belief that is causing misery and costing lives, not to mention allowing people to perceive they have an authority to dictate other's lives. That authority often leads to totalitarian mentality. If we took the top three religions away, there are dozens of others waiting to take their place. The enemy is not God, the enemy is not worship of god, the enemy is the certainty in ideas that can not possibly be supported. When people profess to know more than they can possible know and do so with absolute conviction. It's when people use that conviction to justify actions, to govern their social interactions, and to influence decisions in social and public policy that problems arise. Nothing could be more irresponsible or indecent as that. The solution to these problems is not exclusion, suppression or eradication of religious ideas, but encouragement of doubt and critical analysis of those ideas. This includes giving people the tools they need to think skeptically and unbiased about all ideas, religion being only one.




"God doesn't kill people, people with Gods kill people" ...have always liked that.


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## blazinkill504 (Sep 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> How do you know what happens when we die? Have you died and come back to life? That's pretty awesome that you are the only person in the world who knows what happens.
> 
> So you're saying religious people find comfort from religion and you wish to take away this comfort? Well that's rude.


im not sayin blankness is what we're all goin too, but why would someone believe in god if that wasnt it? im sorry if thats rude or not but i dont have a vagina between my legs so im not gonna be scared of somethin that one i dunno whats gonna happen and two if it it nothingness why would anyone be afraid/ you arent gonna feel it


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## Zaehet Strife (Sep 27, 2011)

*existence could be real, could be illusion, we could have souls, could have consciousness, there could be god, nobody knows for sure. i think people who say that they know are still letting fear control their lives. as we all live our lives in fear to some extent...fear of not knowing weather or not we will get food or water, fear of not knowing weather we will be loved, or liked. 

fear of not knowing what happens when you die.

no one knows, and it sucks because the fear never goes away, it is always there...

it is how you deal with the fear, that makes the difference. its how you accept the fear, which stems from not knowing...thats what makes the difference. 

don't let fear control the way you live your life, and especially the way you think.*

but alas, people are scared of the unknown. how do we give people courage in the face of not knowing what happens when you die? i think it would all be resolved with proper education for children, education in morality, individualism and freedom to do anything. freedom of not being condemned when you dont conform to society. people want to belong so badly, people want to be loved so badly. this is such a hard topic, because so many people are just so damned afraid!

i think, if we could all just come to accept the fact that we dont know...and if we can just learn to live happily within that fear, things in the world could be better.

how do we do it in a positive way? how do we help people take control of their fear, rather than allowing and encouraging others to let it control their lives and the way they think? these are two very very hard question indeed.


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## Charlie Who? (Sep 28, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> This is just about the worst idea yet. "Force them to conform"? You're kidding right? Substitute one extremely oppressive establishment for another? That doesn't sound like a very good plan. You can't force someone to believe something. The only way is through education and letting people figure things out for themselves.


"unless we of no religion rise up and...."??? well, er uh....aint that about the same thought as "we of CHRISTIAN belief rise up...." or "we of Muslim belief rise up and...."???

The "rising up" IS the problem. When any group "rises up and makes"....we get what we have now.
Here's an idea....how bout if NOBODY "rises up"? and just lets folks choose whether they believe or dont believe?

What makes you think the "non-believers" are "right"? Any more "right" than the goddam Believers are?

When can all people get it that the question is UN-ANSWERABLE and UN-PROVABLE?

The Believers dont know for sure there IS a god....and the UNbelievers dont know for sure there isnt one.

Until a time comes when ALL people earnestly respect the other side's right to their beliefs, (or UN-beliefs as the sace may be) they're ALL dangerous to the Ones's Who Dont Agree.

For instance, suppose all the Mus should admit, "hey! Im a Muslim! But the truth is, I dont KNOW for sure!" and the Christers should say, "Hey! Im a Christer....but I dont actually KNOW!" and the atheists should say, "I dont THINK there's a god....but hell, I aint SURE!"

Then we might just realize we're ALL in the exact same boat----we dont, any of us, KNOW shit.

What we have here, globally, is a shitload of people with opinions about something not a damn one of us knows anything for SURE about.

Nobody knows. Everybody THINKS he knows. That's the one thing I kinda admire most about Jews. At least they KNOW they dont know anything about any suck thing as an "after-life" They're wise enough to say, "We dont know what happens after death....so let's focus on LIFE and how to best behave while we live." The othet two mid eastern religios cults keep insistineg THEY "know" what happens after death and furthermore "they"(the other guys) aint gettin IN.

It's the "we're right andf they're wrong" thing that has kept Mus and Cris killing each other for 1500 years, both in "the name of God" (or Allah).

Now, as far as "educating" people....the Chinese tried that, so did the now defunct Soviet Union. Both discovered that, regardless of "education" that "god is a false belief", a certain (latge) percentage of people STILL refused to give up their idea of "god".

There just MAY be a reason, fundamental to all humans, for this.

Since the first Cave Guy left his cave and stared up at the stars, some people have come to the conclusion that, "Somebody Out There MADE all this....and that mutherfucker MUST be GOD."

Spirituality is inherent within our species. We alone can look at this Cosmos and be awe-stricken. "HOW did all this come about?", we ask.

And, until the late 19th century, nobody even questioned it. Clearly, SOMEbody made the universe. Then along came the advent of "modern" science. By the 20th century, (the latrer half, at least), we had enough actual knowledge of physics, astronomy, biology, to begin to question whether "god" made it or if maybe it was all just some big cosmic accident of nature.

Before there was science (last couple hundred years), there was Magic (previous 10,000yers or so) Each of these is a reflection of the thought of Man. Man "evolved". However.....regardless of how humans changed, the universe stayed pretty much the same. It didnt care that early man looked out at the stars and was awe-stricken. It doesnrt care NOW that we peer into It's depths with the Hubble telescope, either. The constant is----both Mr. Neanderthall and Mr Astronomer STILL say, 
Holy shit....this is amazing....and I dont know how it all got started."

I was watching NOVA last night and some astronomers were showing the Huble and announced that at last we KNOW exactly WHEN the Universe began. The date of the Big Bang was 16.7 billion years ago. They know this by measuring the length of red waves and blue waves given off by stars as they move away from the viewer,(near as I could understand)

OK, Im happy with that. Except.....IF the universe had an actual Beginning.....a precise moment when it went from DOESNT EXIST to DOES EXIST, then....doesnt that mean there will also be an eventual ending?

These guys say the universe is expanding. Into....what? Empty space. OK. If the universe, then, is finite.....should we assume space is finite, also? Andf if so....what the fuck lies outside it's edge? Or, is space expanding, too? and if so, wont it always hold the millions of galaxies, no matter how spread out they get?

Here's another thing I thought was cool.....science used to think there was only one galaxy. Now, the Huble has shown there are millions of others. They showed a "hole" some astronomer looked thru, the size of a drinking straw, into am "empty" spot of empty space..... and woo hoo.....thru the rabbit hole, there were a whole nuther world of other galaxies. One can only assume a peek theu one of that other galaxies "dark spots" would reveal yet another....and another, and so on.

But here's the mind-blowing part: The images they showed looked EXACTLY like the images of fractals we've all seen.

I mean, exactly. In fact, If I showed you an image from those other galaxies and said, "What is this"? You guys would probaly reply, "looks like a fractal to me."

Now.....OK, so we didnt see a fractal until the computer came along and Dr. Mandelbrot produced a visual image of one. But they were always there. One could say that fractal geometry is the math God used to design the universe. Whether we use science to look deep inside the tinyest of matter....of to look outward at the galaxies....the images look just the same. Literally. I mean, I could show you a drop of urine with calcium oxilate crystals in it taken frm a patient with kidney stones thru an electron microscope and tell you it was a picture taken tru the Huble of a distant star and you'd say, "OK, I see it."

Now...if this is all just a cosmic accident, then....... well, I'll blow you on Main Street at high noon on Christmas Day. The more science reveals the complexity of this extraordinary universe, the less likely it seems to me it could be an "accident".

Perhaps what we "enlightened" folks of the 21st century need is NOT to throw out the outdated concepts of God....but to embrace a brand new one--- of God as the ultimate Scientist, not merely "discovering" the intricate Laws of the Uni, but thinking them up in the first place, setting them into motion and patiently waiting for us to begin to understand.

I heartily agree that religion is bullshit, mythology and lies. But that doesnt mean there is no God. It just means we're only NOW just at the earliest stage of beginning to tiptoe from what God is NOT to what God Is. God is NOT the gray-bearded old man handing out punishment and reward. That concept reflects our own evolutionary growth. We Had nothing BUT our own experience of the patriarchal "father figure", either happy(and rewarding) or pissed off (and punishing) at our behavior, to draw from. It was what we knew. That "God created man in His own image" is clearly, nonsense. Man created God in his own image is truth. That we imagined God to be The Big Daddy in The Sky is not surprising. What else could we have done prior to science?

OK, so we spent 100 little tiny years all full of ourselves for having finally "discovered" "there is no God." Oh, we're SO smart now, with all out science, we FINALLY figured it out that the Bible is all just mythology." Yeah, yeah, yeah. YES, the Bible IS all mythology. But let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. True, there was no Voice speaking from any damn Burning Bush, there aint no guy ever born of a virgin, aint no guy ever got up from the dead. But, so what? Those stories CAME from OUR desperate need to "know", with no science to draw from. Those stories are out-dated now, revealed to any 21st century, thinking mind as bullshit. But all that means is that our concept of god is no longer applicable, not that God doesnt exist.

We need to expand our concept. God, the Creator, the Scientist, the Mathemetician, the Engineer of the Cosmos. Beardless, genderless, Pure Aware Creative and Benevolent Energy.

CW


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 28, 2011)

Charlie Who? said:


> We need to expand our concept. God, the Creator, the Scientist, the Mathemetician, the Engineer of the Cosmos. Beardless, genderless, Pure Aware Creative and Benevolent Energy.
> 
> CW



It is interesting to me that we are drawn to pleasant things over grotesque. If nature had wanted us to eradicate ourselves would we be more prone to liking the grotesque? (f.e. war-like violence, improperly! placed punctuation, etc.  )


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## Padawanbater2 (Sep 28, 2011)

That entire post is one huge appeal to ignorance.

"I don't know how this works, so God did it" "It couldn't be an accident, so God did it" "It's too complicated, so God did it"

Give me a break.

Howbout if God actually did it, you guys start showing how. If there's no evidence showing how (as there shouldn't be if you're familiar with the concept of faith) then stop making claims one did. It makes believers look foolish.

Atheists are the only ones saying "I don't know", Christians, Muslims and Jews need to get on the wagon and stop throwing rocks at everybody, as has been the case for hundreds of years.


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## Heisenberg (Sep 28, 2011)

Charlie Who? said:


> We need to expand our concept. God, the Creator, the Scientist, the Mathemetician, the Engineer of the Cosmos. Beardless, genderless, Pure Aware Creative and Benevolent Energy.
> 
> CW


Nothing in your arguments indicates the requirement of a supernatural explanation for the universe. In fact, a creator god, whether hes a mathematician or a scientist, still compounds the problem rather than offering a solution. If the universe had a designer then that designer must be himself more complicated than the universe, so where did he come from? Without evidence it is just speculation, and that speculation serves to introduce more questions rather than supply any answers. That is not the sort of speculation that helps with problem solving.


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## Charlie Who? (Sep 28, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Nothing in your arguments indicates the requirement of a supernatural explanation for the universe. In fact, a creator god, whether hes a mathematician or a scientist, still compounds the problem rather than offering a solution. If the universe had a designer then that designer must be himself more complicated than the universe, so where did he come from? Without evidence it is just speculation, and that speculation serves to introduce more questions rather than supply any answers. That is not the sort of speculation that helps with problem solving.


Where is it written that problems with understanding the nature of God are supposed to be "solved"?

In fact, where is it written that God is "supernatural"? I dont think anything is supernatural. Some shit is inexplicable.....but not supernatural. To a mouse, a skyscraper is "supernatural". It is beyond his understanding. But the skyscraper is still there, regardless of the mouse's tiny intellect.

Humans just really WANT to believe they're the Top of the universal intelligence. Anything outside they're IQ range is dismissed as "not real".

Let's take something simpler than God. Some people say they have seen a ghost, spirit, whatever. Those who have NOT seen one dismiss this as "delusion", a "waking dream", "imagination", "hallucination". In other words, "since I have not seen a ghost, there are no ghosts." The implication is, "IF ghosts exist, then dammit I would have seen one." They just cant stand it that something outside their personal reality might be real.

Everybody is the Center of the universe, LOL. Each of us sees him/herself as the ultimate authority on what is and what isnt. If I see a ghost, then there are ghosts. If I have nerver seen one, they dont exist.

The person who has had a near death experience or an out-of-body experience says he had the experience. Those who have not say, "No, you didnt. You IMAGINED it." They just cannot stand that if anybody had such an experience, it want them.

Fuck man. Ive never been to Montana. Therefore, there is no Montana. Furthermore, anybody who says they have been to Montana is either lying, hallucinating, or just plain nuts.

Seriously. Because IF there was a Montana, goddammit, I WOULD KNOW IT. Because after all, I AM the Center of the Universe and privy to All Truth.

Because....well...if there IS a Montana....and IF I dont know it....then oh shit....maybe I aint as special as I think I am. If OTHER people are privy to the existence of Montana....and Im not....then OMG, THEY must be MORE special and smart and sighted than I am.....which makes me shit by comparison...which simply CANNOT and MUST NOT be true.....


so, there is no Montana. The existence of Montana would just....shake up my world way too much. I would be face to face with my obvious lack of of comprehenson and that would scare the crap outa me.


Probably mice think nothing is smarter than they are, too.

Humans being unable to understand or grasp something beyond their intelligence doesnt mean that which is beyond their intelligence doesnt exist.

CW


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## Charlie Who? (Sep 28, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I was careful to single out dogmatic adherence. Any religion which forbids dispute and requires the surrender of the mind to unreasonable ideas is equally as bad as the other. When people train their brain that it is okay to believe some things based on no evidence or reasoning, the potential for great evil is always there. Even beliefs that seem benign have this potential. 100 years ago the belief that the soul enters the body at the moment of conception seemed silly, but harmless enough. Enter medical abortions and stem cell research, and now we have a benign belief that is causing misery and costing lives, not to mention allowing people to perceive they have an authority to dictate other's lives. That authority often leads to totalitarian mentality. If we took the top three religions away, there are dozens of others waiting to take their place. The enemy is not God, the enemy is not worship of god, the enemy is the certainty in ideas that can not possibly be supported. When people profess to know more than they can possibly know and do so with absolute conviction. It's when people use that conviction to justify actions, to govern their social interactions, and to influence decisions in social and public policy that problems arise. Nothing could be more irresponsible or indecent than that. The solution to these problems is not exclusion, suppression or eradication of religious ideas, but encouragement of doubt and critical analysis of those ideas. This includes giving people the tools they need to think skeptically and unbiased about all ideas, religion being only one.


You're a bright dude, Heisenberg.

CW


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## Heisenberg (Sep 28, 2011)

Charlie Who? said:


> What makes you think the "non-believers" are "right"? Any more "right" than the goddam Believers are?


The same things that make us think we are right when we decide Elvis is dead, leprechauns are fantasy and the boogieman doesn't exist. Critical analysis.





> The Believers dont know for sure there IS a god....and the UNbelievers dont know for sure there isnt one.
> 
> Until a time comes when ALL people earnestly respect the other side's right to their beliefs, (or UN-beliefs as the sace may be) they're ALL dangerous to the Ones's Who Dont Agree.


Nothing about my atheism requires me to disrespect or hurt those who don't agree. I think the majority of religious beliefs are contemptible and deserving of ridicule, but that is not dictated by my atheism. Religious beliefs do not have to include intolerance or prohibit doubt, but most of them do.



> For instance, suppose all the Mus should admit, "hey! Im a Muslim! But the truth is, I dont KNOW for sure!" and the Christers should say, "Hey! Im a Christer....but I dont actually KNOW!" and the atheists should say, "I dont THINK there's a god....but hell, I aint SURE!"


This is essentially what atheists say. I am not convinced there is a god. Again, only religions claim certainty.



> Then we might just realize we're ALL in the exact same boat----we dont, any of us, KNOW shit.


I know it is not right to judge and oppress based on beliefs that can not possibly be known, let alone proven. I know it's not okay to hold false ideas about reality, that is if I am motivated to obtain valid knowledge. Rarely when atheists criticize religious people are they motivated by certainty that there is no god. 



> What we have here, globally, is a shitload of people with opinions about something not a damn one of us knows anything for SURE about.


Which of those opinions are causing problems? It is being too concerned with evidence and reason, or being too certain in the mind of god? 





> Now, as far as "educating" people....the Chinese tried that, so did the now defunct Soviet Union. Both discovered that, regardless of "education" that "god is a false belief", a certain (latge) percentage of people STILL refused to give up their idea of "god".


Why do you assume the goal of education is to eradicate the belief in god? I don't mind if people play with god, just don't bring him over to my house. Education is about combating the perceived authority that comes from being certain of god's mind. A large percentage of people refused to give up the belief that Y2K was going to cause armageddon, does that mean we should have stopped trying to educate people? Should we abandon rationale in the name of futility? 

Saying people will always need god so lets give them religion is like saying people will always need entertainment so lets give them snuff films.




> But here's the mind-blowing part: The images they showed looked EXACTLY like the images of fractals we've all seen.
> 
> I mean, exactly. In fact, If I showed you an image from those other galaxies and said, "What is this"? You guys would probaly reply, "looks like a fractal to me."
> 
> Now.....OK, so we didnt see a fractal until the computer came along and Dr. Mandelbrot produced a visual image of one. But they were always there. One could say that fractal geometry is the math God used to design the universe. Whether we use science to look deep inside the tinyest of matter....of to look outward at the galaxies....the images look just the same. Literally. I mean, I could show you a drop of urine with calcium oxilate crystals in it taken frm a patient with kidney stones thru an electron microscope and tell you it was a picture taken tru the Huble of a distant star and you'd say, "OK, I see it."


Interesting observation, but it supports the theory that the universe is just a simulation being ran on a computer of the future before it would suggest a divine creator. Afterall, a future computer requires no supernatural element.



Charlie Who? said:


> You're a bright dude, Heisenberg.
> 
> CW


Thanks, I hope you don't mistake my exploration of your ideas as disapproval of you expressing them.


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## Zaehet Strife (Sep 28, 2011)

what us intellectuals are trying to do has nothing to do with trying to abolish or get rid of theology or religion or dogmatic belief.... its that once you realize the "truth" about religion, dogmatic belief and theology... those beliefs will disappear as a side effect of realizing that "truth" 

*the truth is, that no one knows. *

if people would accept that, there would be no need for religion, dogmatic belief or theology... we as humans have grown past the idea of comforting fairy tales, we are smarter than that now. theology stemmed from our early ancestors trying to make sense of a world where they didnt have the proper knowledge or tools to make sense of it. 

now we know why we stick to the earth (gravity), now we know we aren't at the center of our universe, let alone the center of our galaxy.

yet again i state, the truth is... NO ONE KNOWS.

_we are not trying to say anyone is wrong, we are not trying to say anyone is right.... we are trying to tell you the truth and you just wont listen, because you theologians are too scared to accept that you don't know. 
_ 
*no one knows, its scary...*_*GET OVER IT.



*_the only way for the people on this planet to be able to come together to save this world, is for all of us to accept this ultimate truth. 

"no one knows, its scary, we dont have to lie to ourselves anymore to make us feel better about death...we can accept this fear of the unknown and face it with courage and unity... or we can lie to ourselves, let the fear control our lives and our thoughts..and accept our dogmatic beliefs as truths"

its up to the individual to take the first step toward enlightenment, or "waking up" to this ultimate truth. 
we as humans do not know what happens when you die, nor do we know what the point of life is, nor do we know why we are here. accept it, face it, live without fear for it is the only true way to be happy, the only true way to be free.


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## Heisenberg (Sep 28, 2011)

Charlie Who? said:


> Where is it written that problems with understanding the nature of God are supposed to be "solved"?


 Perfection is never obtainable but always worthy of effort. If there is a creator I certainly want to know about it. The fact that I probably wont ever understand shouldn't stop me from trying.



> In fact, where is it written that God is "supernatural"? I dont think anything is supernatural. Some shit is inexplicable.....but not supernatural. To a mouse, a skyscraper is "supernatural". It is beyond his understanding. But the skyscraper is still there, regardless of the mouse's tiny intellect.


If god created nature, then he must be beyond nature. If god is of nature, then nature created god. How would something bring about reality if that something doesn't exist before reality? So yes, if the universe had an intelligent designer, he would have to be supernatural.



> Humans just really WANT to believe they're the Top of the universal intelligence. Anything outside they're IQ range is dismissed as "not real".


Quantum mechanics are beyond the scope of my IQ range, yet I accept the concepts. Astrophysics is far beyond my understanding, yet I accept it's paradigm. If the idea of god had support rivaling these, I would accept it too.



> Let's take something simpler than God. Some people say they have seen a ghost, spirit, whatever. Those who have NOT seen one dismiss this as "delusion", a "waking dream", "imagination", "hallucination". In other words, "since I have not seen a ghost, there are no ghosts." The implication is, "IF ghosts exist, then dammit I would have seen one." They just cant stand it that something outside their personal reality might be real.
> 
> Everybody is the Center of the universe, LOL. Each of us sees him/herself as the ultimate authority on what is and what isnt. If I see a ghost, then there are ghosts. If I have nerver seen one, they dont exist.


Well you are distilling people down to a dichotomy. Either you say ghosts don't exist, or you say they do. What about people like Joe Nickell, who persistently investigates extra-ordinary reports yet has never found a shred of evidence allowing him to say he believes in ghosts? If he believed ghosts didn't exist, do you suppose he would waste his life and career on finding them? He cant say he believes because everything he has investigated has had ordinary explanations. When we have an ordinary explanation which explains all evidence vs a supernatural explanation which allows every assumption it needs to explain evidence, we favor the ordinary one. In the case of the universe, we favor the one that has evidence and multiple independent lines of support. We can't say that it is the correct one, we can only say it is the one worthy of pursuit. We can not give any more weight to the idea of a creator god than we can of a computer simulation, until we have rationale for doing so.



> The person who has had a near death experience or an out-of-body experience says he had the experience. Those who have not say, "No, you didnt. You IMAGINED it." They just cannot stand that if anybody had such an experience, it want them.


These sorts of experiences are very interesting and have exciting implications. If we want to understand these phenomena, the only valid route is to rule out other explanations. It is only being responsible to ask if these experiences are have a neurological cause. In any case, the idea that these experiences are genuine is easily testable. Some hospitals have random number generators in their emergency rooms, so that if someone floats above their body they may remember the number sequence. Astral travel can be tested in the same way. 



> Fuck man. Ive never been to Montana. Therefore, there is no Montana. Furthermore, anybody who says they have been to Montana is either lying, hallucinating, or just plain nuts.
> 
> Seriously. Because IF there was a Montana, goddammit, I WOULD KNOW IT. Because after all, I AM the Center of the Universe and privy to All Truth.
> 
> Because....well...if there IS a Montana....and IF I dont know it....then oh shit....maybe I aint as special as I think I am. If OTHER people are privy to the existence of Montana....and Im not....then OMG, THEY must be MORE special and smart and sighted than I am.....which makes me shit by comparison...which simply CANNOT and MUST NOT be true.....


 You are creating a very dumb strawman who takes things to absurd conclusions. I don't know anyone who acts this way, do you? If so, you should introduce them to skepticism.



> so, there is no Montana. The existence of Montana would just....shake up my world way too much. I would be face to face with my obvious lack of of comprehenson and that would scare the crap outa me.


Doubt is a tool that helps us reach actuality. You are describing vain incredulity. They really don't have much to do with each other.



> Humans being unable to understand or grasp something beyond their intelligence doesnt mean that which is beyond their intelligence doesnt exist.


Right, just because there is no good reason to believe in Bigfoot doesn't mean he isn't out there, but it does put him pretty far down on our list of priorities. Using an inexplicable omniscience to explain the universe might be an easy way to digest reality, but there is nothing to suggest it is a good place to start, indeed, reason would suggest quite the opposite.

You are presenting the universe as a mystery when it's better described as a puzzle.


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## hazorazo (Sep 28, 2011)

Charlie Who? said:


> Where is it written that problems with understanding the nature of God are supposed to be "solved"?
> 
> In fact, where is it written that God is "supernatural"? I dont think anything is supernatural. Some shit is inexplicable.....but not supernatural. To a mouse, a skyscraper is "supernatural". It is beyond his understanding. But the skyscraper is still there, regardless of the mouse's tiny intellect.
> 
> ...


The cool thing about Montana is that if someone argued with you, you could fly there, or drive there and show them MONTANA. You cannot do that with God. Honestly, organized religion is a problem, because you cannot drive there, and prove your point. Montana exists in reality. God is an idea. Not real. Not an all powerful being. The bible is written by men, and should be used as a book of stories which reflect a certain moral standpoint. Nothing more, nothing less. 

Do you really think YOU have it right, and everyone else does not? I tend to believe that MOST have no idea whether God exists, they just HOPE he does, so they can justify looking crazy here on earth.


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## Zaehet Strife (Sep 28, 2011)

*its up to the individual to take the first step toward enlightenment, or "waking up" to the ultimate truth. 
we as humans do not know what happens when you die, nor do we know what the point of life is, nor do we know why we are here. accept it, face it, live without fear for it is the only true way to be happy, the only true way to be free.*


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## VILEPLUME (Sep 28, 2011)

lol, the title sounds like something Hitler would say.

But instead of just killing all the Jews, it would be anyone who believes in something.


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## cannabineer (Sep 28, 2011)

VILEPLUME said:


> lol, the title sounds like something Hitler would say.
> 
> But instead of just killing all the Jews, it would be anyone who believes in something.


 You just made Godwin's ghost grin. 

I cannot imagine many here would equate "religion" with "the religious". Terminology matters. cn


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## tyler.durden (Sep 29, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I don't mind if people play with god, just don't bring him over to my house...
> 
> Saying people will always need god so lets give them religion is like saying people will always need entertainment so lets give them snuff films...


(_Shakes head smiling_) Classic Glacier shit


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## VILEPLUME (Sep 29, 2011)

[youtube]TlqpfV9marA[/youtube]


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 29, 2011)

*




Originally Posted by VILEPLUME  
lol, the title sounds like something Hitler would say.

But instead of just killing all the Jews, it would be anyone who believes in something. 


*i dont want to kill people , infact quite the opposite,i want to free people , i want religion eradicated , because its supresses human life , its evil , imorral ,and overall damaging to humans , its the cause of allmost every conflict man has ever fought so yes i think eradicating religion from peoples lives would be a good thing not a bad thing , so your comparason to hitler was stupid , i think following religion would be more like hitlers style , he wanted every to worship him and obey his rules , just like religion , and he promised great things if you did lol .


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## VILEPLUME (Sep 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, but how do you force billions of people to stop? And if they dont stop, what do you do with them? Maybe this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NMzepSePD4&noredirect=1

I hate extremism is any case. I like the state of western humanity(though not perfect) that we are in now. We have freedom to believe in what we want, more food then we can eat and are entertained like nothing before in history and have more MJ strains to pick from then we can grow lol.

Just because people use something for evil doesnt make it evil. It is like a gun, it can save a life or it can take it.


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## Zaehet Strife (Sep 30, 2011)

in the beginning... man created god


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## thechemist310 (Sep 30, 2011)

Religion will never go away completely. It was started to control the masses and to feed the heads of poor people or people thinking, "damn, there HAS to be something better than my crappy life here on earth!"

It will hopefully fade through the generations. My life is case in point. I am from an extremely religious "Church of christ" family and my wife is from a "Methodist" family. Both of us learned at a young age you can question what you are told. Both of us have done hours of research on multiple religions. Neither one of us believe the silly stories we were taught as children. We will pass this on to our children. We are both great people and don't have to worry about the day of judgement.


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 1, 2011)

it is a very sad thing to have the ability to observe just how much fear has a hold on humanity....


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## kang420 (Oct 1, 2011)

God talked to me last night he said he heard about this post and isent very happy. he says as punishment he might make anyone who reads these posts very very high indeed that should teach you!
naw i have no belief either i think we need to move on from false gods as i feel everyone of them is false. if there was a god and he wanted us to live under such mafia governments he would be a real dick.


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 1, 2011)

love should be everyones religion, plain and simple


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Oct 1, 2011)

lol dont you just love it when God speaks vicariously through people,its like 3rd person skitzophrenia.


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 1, 2011)

*I distrust those people who know so well what their religion wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.

If you are to believe in anything, do not believe in god... because it gives you the excuse to keep living life as you always have been, which is very very easy.

Believe in love, peace, and compassion... and you will be forced to observe yourself in everything you do or say, which will inevitably force you to change your behaviors, which is very very hard.

above all else... believe in yourself


"with great power comes great responsibility, with great knowledge comes even greater responsibility"
*


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 1, 2011)

Zaehet Strife said:


> *I distrust those people who know so well what their religion wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.
> 
> If you are to believe in anything, do not believe in god... because it gives you the excuse to keep living life as you always have been, which is very very easy.
> 
> ...




...all kinds of diminished fear. that's a good start.


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## daniel cardenas (Oct 1, 2011)

I agree with post #3 you don't want to get rid of the idea of god. that would not be a good thing.


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## echlectica (Oct 1, 2011)

That's going to be about as easy as eradicating drugs . People need to just learn to ignore each other better and we'll all get along fine.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 1, 2011)

How do you propose people ignore each other when it's chiseled in someones faith that they must spread the word? Many of them believe this is a requirement by God.


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## sworth (Oct 4, 2011)

Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> lol dont you just love it when God speaks vicariously through people,its like 3rd person skitzophrenia.


Seeing is believing dude...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot6QwOMMC2I


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## cannabineer (Oct 4, 2011)

I wish your brother Spikesworth  would have zoomed in. I'm dying to read the T-shirt of Turin. cn


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 5, 2011)

its up to the individual to take the first step toward enlightenment, or "waking up" to the ultimate truth. 

we as humans do not know what happens when you die, nor do we know what the point of life is, nor do we know why we are here. accept it, face it, live without fear for it is the only true way to be happy, the only true way to be free.

just thought that needed to be said again


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## olylifter420 (Oct 5, 2011)

nothing was ever "chiseled" and i was not told i must spread the word in the fashion in which you all give it.




> How do you propose people ignore each other when it's chiseled in someones faith that they must spread the word?


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 5, 2011)

Well you don't speak for millions of believers.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 6, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> nothing was ever "chiseled" and i was not told i must spread the word in the fashion in which you all give it.


god's sheep are suppose to spread the word. what i wanna know is what happened to all the people after jesus died that lived in different places that have never heard of jesus or god. did they all go to hell because they believe in other gods? because thats how they were brought up and seein as how they didnt have the internet back then i doubt that kinda info spread fast so did like more than half of the world back then go to hell?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> god's sheep are suppose to spread the word. what i wanna know is what happened to all the people after jesus died that lived in different places that have never heard of jesus or god. did they all go to hell because they believe in other gods? because thats how they were brought up and seein as how they didnt have the internet back then i doubt that kinda info spread fast so did like more than half of the world back then go to hell?


Oly won't be able to answer that because he is not god (not fighting,  ). He can't tell you where they went.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> im not sayin blankness is what we're all goin too, but why would someone believe in god if that wasnt it? im sorry if thats rude or not but i dont have a vagina between my legs so im not gonna be scared of somethin that one i dunno whats gonna happen and two if it it nothingness why would anyone be afraid/ you arent gonna feel it


Alright I'm gonna say a bunch of nonsense that will make sense in the end, so just stick with me, .

Have you heard of George Harrison? He had many great messages, I choose to apply those messages to my life. If it's an uplifting message I like to live by it. You may have an "idol"... Right? Well that idol probably taught you some important lessons in life. Like if you have one of your parents, and you love them, didn't you try to make them proud when you were young? Or at least respect them and follow their rules? 

Well Jesus is my George harisson and idol. I don't follow him for comfort of an afterlife (I will explain my afterlife views in a little while), I follow him because he was a very good guy. He taught many valuable lesson that I apply to my life everyday. By following his lessons I have made better choices in some situations. 
I'm not saying atheists can't make good decisions, I'm saying that our morals are influenced from our idols. So I like to follow Christ, hence being a "Christian".

Ok now on to the vagina between your legs thing. 
I'm not a pussy, lol. I believe god is going to end my existence, does that mean I should start acting badly? No, because I would like to live my 1 life as happy as possible. I don't believe in modern day interpretation of "hell". But that's a whole other story. It would take to long to explain, may even be thread worthy (I'm not gonna start the war thread though, lol). I believe few people will see heaven, and the rest of us shall go to Sheol (hell) which is translated to grave. We go to a grave when we die, << that's what I believe. 

So in conclusion I follow Christ not out of fear but out of love (I know sounds corny). Such as one might follow his parents rules out of love. His parents promise no afterlife, yet he will love them because he knows they love him. I do not believe I will go to heaven, so really I have no "comfort" based on afterlife. 

However (lol I don't shut up) I do find some comfort in his teachings, just like an atheist would find comfort and happiness in hanging out with his/her friends and family. I said that's rude because many atheists (just look. At the title of the thread) want to take this "comfort" away from me. I call bullshit on that.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 7, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Alright I'm gonna say a bunch of nonsense that will make sense in the end, so just stick with me, .
> 
> Have you heard of George Harrison? He had many great messages, I choose to apply those messages to my life. If it's an uplifting message I like to live by it. You may have an "idol"... Right? Well that idol probably taught you some important lessons in life. Like if you have one of your parents, and you love them, didn't you try to make them proud when you were young? Or at least respect them and follow their rules?
> 
> ...


i never really had anyone teach me what i learned i just was always an observant person that likes to question things alot, but i see what you're talkin about with the idol and to me what you're doin is how bein a christian is suppose to be. sadly that isnt the case with the majority and i know because i was baptised catholic (eshh) went and did my communion and came out questionin the bible and that religion more than ever. then i went to christianity and i went full devote into it like girls flat out sayin the wanna fuck me and me just bein like nah, no more drugs, no cursin just went into it and realized half the people i went to church with went for the wrong ass reasons so ive seen it from more than one religion and people like you and myself at one time were few and far between because we actually were tryin to be christ like. then i just didnt care about or think of what i believed for a long time and then i started readin up on things about other gods and thats when i found other gods that had shockingly similar trats to jesus and it just kept goin from there.

the vagina was just a joke though lol i was tryin to say in a funny way people need comfort for death because more times than not not knowin will make someone afraid and religion has a answer for that and thats a very powerful thing. if anyone wants to follow the man jesus and his morals then i say by all means do you man cause i believe in those kinda morals too. and honestly i try to avoid sayin shit like that because i dont want to take that comfort away from someone who believes it. for example right now my mawmaw is real real sick and prolly has a year left max and she talks about god and jesus and i dont say a word id feel terrible if i took that away from someone but at the same time i wanna make them open to other things.

damn im high and tired and i cant see shit without my contacts in!


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> i never really had anyone teach me what i learned i just was always an observant person that likes to question things alot, but i see what you're talkin about with the idol and to me what you're doin is how bein a christian is suppose to be. sadly that isnt the case with the majority and i know because i was baptised catholic (eshh) went and did my communion and came out questionin the bible and that religion more than ever. then i went to christianity and i went full devote into it like girls flat out sayin the wanna fuck me and me just bein like nah, no more drugs, no cursin just went into it and realized half the people i went to church with went for the wrong ass reasons so ive seen it from more than one religion and people like you and myself at one time were few and far between because we actually were tryin to be christ like. then i just didnt care about or think of what i believed for a long time and then i started readin up on things about other gods and thats when i found other gods that had shockingly similar trats to jesus and it just kept goin from there.
> 
> the vagina was just a joke though lol i was tryin to say in a funny way people need comfort for death because more times than not not knowin will make someone afraid and religion has a answer for that and thats a very powerful thing. if anyone wants to follow the man jesus and his morals then i say by all means do you man cause i believe in those kinda morals too. and honestly i try to avoid sayin shit like that because i dont want to take that comfort away from someone who believes it. for example right now my mawmaw is real real sick and prolly has a year left max and she talks about god and jesus and i dont say a word id feel terrible if i took that away from someone but at the same time i wanna make them open to other things.
> 
> damn im high and tired and i cant see shit without my contacts in!


Damn I'm really sorry about your mom dude. I'm kinda a pussy when it comes to losing people you love. My whole life I only saw my parents like 5 minutes a day if I'm lucky (I'm completely serious, just fucking 5 minutes) and I would cry ALOT when I was little. Oh man I was a little wuss, I would ball all day because I thought they would die each day. Well needless to say their lack of parenthood made me depressed (not emo, just depressed). Anyways getting WAY off subject. I would like to say your mom will go somewhere great, but I just don't know what happens. Best wishes towards your mom, and whatever you do make sure she knows you love her, .


Believe me dude, I question the bible everyday (I'm not gonna lie to myself, and block out all reality to fit the bible) but for sure the people of the bible where on to something about love and peace. And that love and peace is what I follow. And yeah I believe alot of religions had the same idea but disagree on certain things, so they make their own religion. I too have looked at other religions, but I just like Christianity for some reason. But (sadly) you had religion stuffed down your throat, my parents didn't tell me anything about religion, so I never really cared. Until my teen years then I started looking into religion because I was curious to the meaning of life. All in all what I learned from religion is to do good deeds. My favorite lesson from any religion is from the bible, and that is that we are like trees we can "bare good fruit or bad fruit". << that alone is enough for me to follow Christianity. It holds a very powerful message to me.

Ha yeah I know the vagina thing was a joke, that's why I put "lol". To show it's all good, .
And I'm just speaking for myself on why I follow religion, to give you an insight on a specific persons view on religion. I respect your views a great deal and love to hear everyone's views. The only thing that pushes me is when people judge others based on their beliefs, you have not done that which is great, . But I must agree, many MANY people follow religion out of "fear", that's just not right.

But yeah your mom lived her whole life with those beliefs, and honestly I think it would crush her if you tried to take away her "comfort". So good job on just letting her be, a very noble thing to do. Well contradictory to my beliefs, I hope someday MAYBE we will know about afterlife and maybe you can meet your mom. Keep in mind I don't believe in to much afterlife, bt I'm open minded and admit I don't know shit about life or afterlife.
Well keep your head up high, and much respect to you.
Lol contacts have to suck (I don't have them).

Damn I went off topic alot, I'm high high and really tired so I'm just typing everything that comes to my head, lol. Peace.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 7, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> god's sheep are suppose to spread the word. what i wanna know is what happened to all the people after jesus died that lived in different places that have never heard of jesus or god. did they all go to hell because they believe in other gods? because thats how they were brought up and seein as how they didnt have the internet back then i doubt that kinda info spread fast so did like more than half of the world back then go to hell?[/QUOTE
> 
> bloody and horrific crusades helped spread the word ,along with torture, rape and anything else you can get away with, under the name of god , the christians were barbaric animals, ten times worst than the muslim fanatics we have today .they forced there beliefs on many weak civilisations using fear and violence .Im glad i wasnt an athiest back then .although i reckon there were lots of athiests who didnt dare speak out .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 7, 2011)

thought you wasnt posting in this forum anymore heapatitus ?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 7, 2011)

at heppatitus dont understand why or how you get love and peace from religion , especially the christian bible ?but why cant you just steer your life to love and peace without the bible ? love n peace are human emotions and we dont need religion to teach us it , look at other animals that live in peace and show love they have never read the bible


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## olylifter420 (Oct 7, 2011)

> human emotions


i believe you have no emotion brother. All this hate you spew around here just does not support that statement coming from you.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 7, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> i believe you have no emotion brother. All this hate you spew around here just does not support that statement coming from you.


no hate from me sunshine , i have no hatred, no god to promote or force upon people, my lack of belief has never invaded other countrys, and my disbelief has never killed anyone , can you say the same for your twisted christianity ? ..............thought not .............my mum allways said ' if you aint got nuffin nice to say , then dont say nuffin;


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## sworth (Oct 7, 2011)

Yup! Fuck religions. Shit creators par excellence. But religions are made of men, women, churches, robes, incense, bricks and mortar etc etc blah blah blah.
Which has little or no relation to any spirituality/god form,real or imagined.
Eradicating religion to attack a concept of God/god is a bit like eradicating supermarkets because you don't agree with the concept of meat eating.
Religion and (the question of?)God; Two entirely different things.
I reckon
Let's start with the priests and work our way up!


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 7, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCDSka70Vug&feature=related anyone who is anyone gotta love this


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> at heppatitus dont understand why or how you get love and peace from religion , especially the christian bible ?but why cant you just steer your life to love and peace without the bible ? love n peace are human emotions and we dont need religion to teach us it , look at other animals that live in peace and show love they have never read the bible


 Lol hepatitis? Steal that one off sutra? Ha, make your own insults.
No shit to your entire post, I said that on this page. I agree with you 100% dipshit, lol. Learn to read and then some of your little confusion problems may clear up.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 7, 2011)

Anyone who is anyone"? so what your saying is atheists are someone, while believers are nothing

I tot ur mum tot u bedder dan dat


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> blazinkill504 said:
> 
> 
> > god's sheep are suppose to spread the word. what i wanna know is what happened to all the people after jesus died that lived in different places that have never heard of jesus or god. did they all go to hell because they believe in other gods? because thats how they were brought up and seein as how they didnt have the internet back then i doubt that kinda info spread fast so did like more than half of the world back then go to hell?[/QUOTE
> ...


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> Anyone who is anyone"? so what your saying is atheists are someone, while believers are nothing
> 
> I tot ur mum tot u bedder dan dat


Of course he does bro. He's a little filled boy that thinks we are to be held responsible for the past. I mean just look at his arguments, he always brings up the past, lol.
Lol sativa you're such a troll.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 7, 2011)

I think he lives in the past with his muum! arent mums the things you by your gf during homecoming week?


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 7, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Damn I'm really sorry about your mom dude. I'm kinda a pussy when it comes to losing people you love. My whole life I only saw my parents like 5 minutes a day if I'm lucky (I'm completely serious, just fucking 5 minutes) and I would cry ALOT when I was little. Oh man I was a little wuss, I would ball all day because I thought they would die each day. Well needless to say their lack of parenthood made me depressed (not emo, just depressed). Anyways getting WAY off subject. I would like to say your mom will go somewhere great, but I just don't know what happens. Best wishes towards your mom, and whatever you do make sure she knows you love her, .
> 
> 
> Believe me dude, I question the bible everyday (I'm not gonna lie to myself, and block out all reality to fit the bible) but for sure the people of the bible where on to something about love and peace. And that love and peace is what I follow. And yeah I believe alot of religions had the same idea but disagree on certain things, so they make their own religion. I too have looked at other religions, but I just like Christianity for some reason. But (sadly) you had religion stuffed down your throat, my parents didn't tell me anything about religion, so I never really cared. Until my teen years then I started looking into religion because I was curious to the meaning of life. All in all what I learned from religion is to do good deeds. My favorite lesson from any religion is from the bible, and that is that we are like trees we can "bare good fruit or bad fruit". << that alone is enough for me to follow Christianity. It holds a very powerful message to me.
> ...


mawmaw=grand mother in the south, but thanks dude i appreciate it. ive always been a type of person that i dont judge someone until they open their mouth. i tell you what tho i figured out all the fakes that use to go to church with me by seein that after i left church they never tried to chill or talk to me. they knew of my past so i guess they assumed i went back to the same shit. (which i did HAHA) the true followers in my eyes still talk to me and wanna hang out and that shows me that they're right with their god. i never understood why all the kids in my church never wanted to hang out with anyone besides the kids in our church. i always wondered why when i would talk and chill with anyone in the school. i feel they felt that if they started hangin with others that didnt go to church they would fall into their habits. im a strong minded/willed person so i talked to whoever cause at that time i knew christianity was the right thing and no matter who i was around that still held true. thats another reason why i see half of them as fake.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> mawmaw=grand mother in the south, but thanks dude i appreciate it. ive always been a type of person that i dont judge someone until they open their mouth. i tell you what tho i figured out all the fakes that use to go to church with me by seein that after i left church they never tried to chill or talk to me. they knew of my past so i guess they assumed i went back to the same shit. (which i did HAHA) the true followers in my eyes still talk to me and wanna hang out and that shows me that they're right with their god. i never understood why all the kids in my church never wanted to hang out with anyone besides the kids in our church. i always wondered why when i would talk and chill with anyone in the school. i feel they felt that if they started hangin with others that didnt go to church they would fall into their habits. im a strong minded/willed person so i talked to whoever cause at that time i knew christianity was the right thing and no matter who i was around that still held true. thats another reason why i see half of them as fake.


Well yeah, half of them are fake. 
Jesus actually used to hang out with thieves and prostitutes. He thought they were better people than the fake hypocrite people that judge to hard. Ha he would rather hang out with you then the fake people in church, lol. Oh, I was kinda confused on the mawmaw thing, lol. Well my thoughts still apply to her.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 7, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Well yeah, half of them are fake.
> Jesus actually used to hang out with thieves and prostitutes. He thought they were better people than the fake hypocrite people that judge to hard. Ha he would rather hang out with you then the fake people in church, lol. Oh, I was kinda confused on the mawmaw thing, lol. Well my thoughts still apply to her.


there honestly should be more christian believers like you cause i can respect someone who follows jesus, but has questioned it and looked at other answers to our existance. not those radicals tho and im talkin on both sides theist and atheist.


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## cannabineer (Oct 7, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> ...Jesus actually used to hang out with thieves and prostitutes...


...including right at the very end. cn


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 11, 2011)

I distrust those people who know so well what their religion wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.

If you are to believe in anything, do not believe in god... because it gives you the excuse to keep living life as you always have been, which is very very easy.

Believe in love, peace, and compassion... and you will be forced to observe yourself in everything you do or say, which will inevitably force you to change your behaviors, which is very very hard.

above all else... believe in yourself


"with great power comes great responsibility, with great knowledge comes even greater responsibility"


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 11, 2011)

What is it that we should all be trying to do? We should all be trying to make the world a better place. But everyone is all talk and no action. 

Their beliefs give them the excuse to sit around and talk, while doing nothing. So they can go on with their lives exactly as they were living it before.

Buying things they don't need instead of using their money responsibly to help others. They buy their new clothes without ever having to think about the people thousands of miles away who have NONE! These are just a couple examples.

Until they realize the truth, they will continue to believe what they want so they can keep living life the way they like, instead of giving back to the world, giving back to the universe.

They don't have to change because they think the world will change for them, or that it is out of their control... it is an excuse. 

And they will sit, and they will wait. And nothing will happen because none of them are going to change their behaviors. 

None of them will give up things they don't need, to people who need them. None of them will give up their comforts, to make others more comfortable. None of them will give up their fortunes, to help less unfortunates. 

It is about equalizing our happiness with the rest of the worlds, and our beliefs give us the excuse to sit and wait, to do nothing about our own behavior. To continue being selfish in the guise of self-lessness. 

Unless we change our behaviors, the world will stay in the hell it is in right now until it may be too late.

All talk and no action. 

We must all change our behavior to be better parts of ourselves.

But no one will... because we like our beliefs, homes, our video games, our shoes and clothes, our burgers and French fries, our drugs, alcohol and cigarettes. 

To make change we must be change, but our beliefs give us the excuse to keep doing the same things over and over again without ever taking full responsibility for what we are doing, for every action we take, and how it affects EVERYONE not just the people and places that surround you. 

No one wants to give up what they have become attached to, whether it be materialistic items we dont need, or beliefs we dont need; they would rather turn their back on the world and be selfish, while parading around like they are making a difference, when they keep making the same decisions about their lives over and over again. The same patterns, which will not help the world but continue to drive it deeper and deeper into self-destruction.
All talk, and no action. 


I believe to wake up, is to become utterly conscious about every single decision you make, about every single thought you think and to take responsibility in doing what you know is right for each and every one of those decisions or thoughts. 

I can lead you to water but I cannot make you drink, I can help you hear but I cannot make you listen, I can open your eyes but I cannot make you see. He who has ears let him hear, he who has eyes let him see. 

Do whats easy and continue to live life the way you like, the way you always have been, or do whats hard and really truly believe in YOURSELF. not god.

dont be an excuse, be an example


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## labudman (Oct 19, 2011)

[video=youtube;jyjNXdEGjO4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyjNXdEGjO4[/video]


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## dannyboy602 (Oct 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> no hate from me sunshine , i have no hatred, no god to promote or force upon people, my lack of belief has never invaded other countrys, and my disbelief has never killed anyone , can you say the same for your twisted christianity ? ..............thought not .............my mum allways said ' if you aint got nuffin nice to say , then dont say nuffin;


My Aunt Nancy always used to say, "if you don't have anything nice to say about somebody, come sit next to me."
My Uncle Bill, a front line artillery man said, "there are no atheists in fox holes." So I don't mind telling the world, I despise atheists. Not all religions create war. I can trust a god fearing man. Most atheists are good for nothing but compost.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 22, 2011)

So you're more inclined to trust somebody who does good deeds based off the fear of punishment if they don't than a person who does good not out of fear but because they know it's right? 

I sure hope you put that helmet on before you go outside, wouldn't want you to hurt yourself..


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## sso (Oct 22, 2011)

actually, we dont have to do anything

religion eradicates itself 

(as brains do progress, deeper understandings of the world and the self just make the bible inadequate to such an extent its soon an mostly forgotten curio, same goes for the other religions, either they will evolve or die out and something new take their place and in the end that wont be "religion" nor anything resembling it (perhaps at most a way of life)


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## sso (Oct 22, 2011)

and brains do progress and it seems faster and faster 

iq numbers rise with each generation.


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## cannabineer (Oct 22, 2011)

sso said:


> and brains do progress and it seems faster and faster
> 
> iq numbers rise with each generation.


To me this does not suggest rising intelligence, but rather a flaw in the way we measure it. cn


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## sso (Oct 22, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> To me this does not suggest rising intelligence, but rather a flaw in the way we measure it. cn


iq is a very flawed way to test intelligence.

but intelligence is on the rise none the less, (perhaps, better to say, understanding, we understand, more and more)


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## boneheadbob (Oct 22, 2011)

We eradicate mankind. Afterall religion is just mans way of controlling people.

However you cannot eradicate Jesus. The one and true Lord as well the creator of all that is.
Jesus is not a religion. He is salvation and eternal life whom wants to have a relationship with you


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## cannabineer (Oct 22, 2011)

sso said:


> iq is a very flawed way to test intelligence.
> 
> but intelligence is on the rise none the less, (perhaps, better to say, understanding, we understand, more and more)


I'm not convinced of that. We have more history, technology communication ... things to talk about and ways to do so. But basic brain spark? If anything I worry that it's getting plowed under by Facebook, Wal-Mart, Idol ... "good enough" in all its guises.Of course, maybe I'm just being a grump. cn


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 22, 2011)

boneheadbob said:


> We eradicate mankind. Afterall religion is just mans way of controlling people.
> 
> However you cannot eradicate Jesus. The one and true Lord as well the creator of all that is.
> Jesus is not a religion. He is salvation and eternal life whom wants to have a relationship with you


oh right , who made this jesus thing then ?


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## Heisenberg (Oct 22, 2011)

boneheadbob said:


> We eradicate mankind. Afterall religion is just mans way of controlling people.
> 
> However you cannot eradicate Jesus. The one and true Lord as well the creator of all that is.
> Jesus is not a religion. He is salvation and eternal life whom wants to have a relationship with you


So Jesus created the entire universe, galaxy upon galaxy, so that he could have a special relationship with one species of primates on one planet orbiting one star. Jesus then qualifies this relationship with a test that is "can you believe in me without any evidence". If the answer is no, he allows you to be set on fire and tormented eternally, if the answer is yes, he gives you a list of rules to follow and hits you up for money.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 23, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> So Jesus created the entire universe, galaxy upon galaxy, so that he could have a special relationship with one species of primates on one planet orbiting one star. Jesus then qualifies this relationship with a test that is "can you believe in me without any evidence". If the answer is no, he allows you to be set on fire and tormented eternally, if the answer is yes, he gives you a list of rules to follow and hits you up for money.


Who said he doesn't care for other species in the galaxy? 

Not all branches of Christianity believes in hell, so he might or might not send you to hell, we don't know. You don't know either, so you can't go around saying if you don't believe him you will go to hell.

Many churches take money, not Jesus. I haven't seen Jesus pass around a basket to collect money for his own cash stash.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 23, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Who said he doesn't care for other species in the galaxy?
> 
> Not all branches of Christianity believes in hell, so he might or might not send you to hell, we don't know. You don't know either, so you can't go around saying if you don't believe him you will go to hell.
> 
> Many churches take money, not Jesus. I haven't seen Jesus pass around a basket to collect money for his own cash stash.


The bible says man is the chosen one, made after God's image. If there are other beings god offers salvation to, why send his only son to us? Why not mention them in the bible? Any assertion that God may care for the eternal souls of other beings can only be based on wild speculation. Biblical canon suggests nothing of the kind. Christ's word also, quite clearly, teaches about the lake of fire. I am not concerned with what some 'branches' of Christianity believe, I am concerned with what Jesus taught. If you do not think Jesus was serious about eternal punishment then you are bending over backwards to paint Jesus in a perfect light. Furthermore, I am not the one saying if you don't believe you go to hell. I was summing up the ideology and implications of bob's post. I agree people should be sure there is a hell before they threaten others with it. Jesus did not go begging for money when he was alive, but since then he's seemed to have developed a nasty gambling habit or shopping addiction, because his ambassadors, not his followers, but the people who spend the most time trying to be close to him and interpret his will so that they may preach it to others, never seem to get enough. When has anyone ever went to church and heard "No collection plate this week, were doing fine". 

*Mark 12:41-44*
_Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. But a poor widow came andput in two very small copper coins, worth only a fraction of a penny. __Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything&#8212;all she had to live on.

_It seems Jesus didn't have a problem with cash, and in fact offered a sort of encouragement that people should give _something_ even if they are in poverty. 

So yes, if we accept this



> However you cannot eradicate Jesus. The one and true Lord as well the *creator* of all that is.
> Jesus is not a religion. He is *salvation* and eternal life whom wants to have a *relationship* with you


We also must accept this



> So Jesus *created* the entire universe, galaxy upon galaxy, so that he could have a *special relationship* with one species of primates on one planet orbiting one star. Jesus then qualifies this relationship with a test that is "can you believe in me without any evidence". If the answer is no, he allows you to be set on fire and tormented eternally, if the answer is yes, he gives you a list of rules to follow and hits you up for money.


Unless you want to be inconsistent or engage in special pleading.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 23, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Who said he doesn't care for other species in the galaxy?
> 
> Not all branches of Christianity believes in hell, so he might or might not send you to hell, we don't know. You don't know either, so you can't go around saying if you don't believe him you will go to hell
> Many churches take money, not Jesus. I haven't seen Jesus pass around a basket to collect money for his own cash stash.


dosent the fact theres different branches of christianity ring alarm bells for you ? only one can be correct right ? lol it would be great just to see jesus nether mind him collecting money , but its never gonna happen .


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## sso (Oct 23, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> I'm not convinced of that. We have more history, technology communication ... things to talk about and ways to do so. But basic brain spark? If anything I worry that it's getting plowed under by Facebook, Wal-Mart, Idol ... "good enough" in all its guises.Of course, maybe I'm just being a grump. cn


nah, the majority are still morons,

but intelligent people are no longer a far between rarity.


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## sso (Oct 23, 2011)

well, love is good.

there is probably life after death.

and if there is a god, he/she/it can come and say hello any time  but im not gonna keep the kettle indefinetly on, god is mickey mouse to me (unless god decides to make it othervise lol)

´s my attitude about it.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 23, 2011)

no love is an emotion its not god .


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## boneheadbob (Oct 23, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> oh right , who made this jesus thing then ?


We may find out the answer to that question when our souls are freed from our flesh. In the meantime, I could care less. Evolution is a fable, in my opinion. I just cant believe that humans and all the other species evolved such magnificent senses such as sight, taste, hearing, smell, touch, not to mention two sexes and the incredible way we procreate.

Theres two choices IMO. There is an almighty Creator or we were "seeded" by ET.
I choose to believe in the Bible. When I was out there, if someone told me the Bible was a living book and woven like a tapestry, from one end to the other and it will change your life. A simple book written over two thousand years ago by sheepherders and fishermen, I would have told you you are crazy. 

Jesus saved me. I would be dead without his grace.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 23, 2011)

boneheadbob said:


> We may find out the answer to that question when our souls are freed from our flesh. In the meantime, I could care less. Evolution is a fable, in my opinion. I just cant believe that humans and all the other species evolved such magnificent senses such as sight, taste, hearing, smell, touch, not to mention two sexes and the incredible way we procreate.
> 
> Theres two choices IMO. There is an almighty Creator or we were "seeded" by ET.
> I choose to believe in the Bible. When I was out there, if someone told me the Bible was a living book and woven like a tapestry, from one end to the other and it will change your life. A simple book written over two thousand years ago by sheepherders and fishermen, I would have told you you are crazy.
> ...


lol so because you dont understand evolution and wont except we dont know alot things about the origins of the universe and life , you are happy to insert ' GOD DONE IT ' with no evidence whatsoever to support the idea ? strange .


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## boneheadbob (Oct 23, 2011)

The New Testament says if you accept Jesus Christ on faith alone, you will spend eternity with him. It also says if you do not accept Jesus Christ you will spend eternity apart from him. (hell)

Some people hear this and ignore untill later when the Holy Ghost calls. Its called planting seeds. That is what most Christian try to do. But we are still living in the flesh and many go overboard giving the majority a bad name. Please try to keep that in mind when people get angry with Bible thumpers.

I try to plant seeds and be respectful instead of forcing my view on others. I dont have all the answers. I just ask that you recall, all Christians are not bad. We are all sinners. We are not perfect. we make mistakes, we lie, we cheat we smoke herb, etc,etc.

We just have a strong faith that comes from deep inside and we believe this with all our heart and soul

May all of you find what you are looking for.


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## Samwell Seed Well (Oct 23, 2011)

by eradicating society from religion

i like turn the other cheek 

humble is good


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## boneheadbob (Oct 23, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lol so because you dont understand evolution and wont except we dont know alot things about the origins of the universe and life , you are happy to insert ' GOD DONE IT ' with no evidence whatsoever to support the idea ? strange .


Thats ironic, I feel very strongly the same way about you. You believe in evo and the orgins of the universe and life yet you are willing to accept science which changes its books and its belief on everything every ten years. Unlike the Bible which was written over two thousand years ago, yet it still stands the test of time.

Things that make you go WOW


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## sso (Oct 23, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> no love is an emotion its not god .


i said love is good. not god.


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## sso (Oct 23, 2011)

hmm, actually, life without my wife was sucky, now that i have her i couldnt give a crap whether jesus was around or not lol.

bit funny guy,, everything just SUCKS without him lol

must be the partybeast of millennium or something, the ultimate teddybear or listener or something, comes and rubs your back or cooks your dinner for you.

lol, dont quite get what´s so essential about the guy.

hey , its ecstasy jesus! now we all feel good! who needs drugs with ole jeesus around eh?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 23, 2011)

boneheadbob said:


> Thats ironic, I feel very strongly the same way about you. You believe in evo and the orgins of the universe and life yet you are willing to accept science which changes its books and its belief on everything every ten years. Unlike the Bible which was written over two thousand years ago, yet it still stands the test of time.
> 
> Things that make you go WOW


 well yes thats the great thing about science , its forever being challenged and its forever discovering more , the bible on the other hand remains in the dark ages ,and thats why i laugh and mock it because it was aimed at the gullible people of that time , allthough i do see many christians trying to change what it says to suit modern life , wich is pathetic really .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 23, 2011)

lets pretend for one minuite there was such thing as this christian god , who is so powerfull and clever etc etc why dosent he just come and sort the world out in 5 mins , why dosent he give us an updated version of the bible on dvd or bluray instead of a hard back book lol why dosent he get everyone believing in him instead of different people from different parts of the world believing in entirely different gods , if he was real then to me hes a complete asshole for letting the suffering go on , on his precious earth when he could sort it out with the blink of an eye .
ps i allready know what you crazy christians will say, but i still find it funny .


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## silasraven (Oct 23, 2011)

Zaehet Strife said:


> What is it that we should all be trying to do? We should all be trying to make the world a better place. But everyone is all talk and no action.
> 
> Their beliefs give them the excuse to sit around and talk, while doing nothing. So they can go on with their lives exactly as they were living it before.
> 
> ...


 you no how hard it is to get rid of things these days i cant even sell my music EQ ive had it up for weeks now at a very reasonable price, i wont go low because these things are brand new and have no damage to them, preety much never been moved. its so fucking hard to get rid of shit you dont need cause people wont take it.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 23, 2011)

boneheadbob said:


> Evolution is a fable, in my opinion. I just cant believe that humans and all the other species evolved such magnificent senses such as sight, taste, hearing, smell, touch, not to mention two sexes and the incredible way we procreate.


Just because you can not personally understand evolution does not mean the rest of us can't. How much of an effort have you made? Care to point out some distinguishing points that you feel makes evolution fable, or is 'doesn't sound right to me' all you have to say?



> Theres two choices IMO. There is an almighty Creator or we were "seeded" by ET.


Do you suppose the universe conforms to your two possible explanations? Do you suppose evolution negates these explanations? Are you under the impression that evolution says anything about how life began?




boneheadbob said:


> You believe in evo and the orgins of the universe and life yet you are willing to accept science which changes its books and its belief on everything every ten years. Unlike the Bible which was written over two thousand years ago, yet it still stands the test of time.


Have you really thought about this? Really? If you have not made the effort to ask yourself why science changes while religion remains stagnate, then you have a lazy mind that should spare us from it's labored efforts to digest reality. Science changes it's views when it is justified and the responsible thing to do. We judge truth value based on an evidential interpretation of the world, not a mythical one. This attitude is what lead us out of the dark ages of religion and into the modern age of knowledge. To preach against change is to preach against progress.

How about you take the time to add intellectual merit to your views before you fumble through them on a forum meant for serious adults.


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## Luger187 (Jan 7, 2012)

boneheadbob said:


> Thats ironic, I feel very strongly the same way about you. You believe in evo and the orgins of the universe and life yet you are willing to accept science which changes its books and its belief on everything every ten years. Unlike the Bible which was written over two thousand years ago, yet it still stands the test of time.
> 
> Things that make you go WOW


this made me go WOW alright...


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## Brick Top (Jan 7, 2012)

&#8220;Religion is the masterpiece of the art of animal training, for it trains people as to how they shall think.&#8221;




Arthur Schopenhauer


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## sweetswisher (Jan 7, 2012)

I was force-fed religion as a kid, being made to go to a catholic school and wat not, and it made me hate everything about religion and the bullshit people have been forced to believe for thousands of years, Show me a fuckin god!


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## Luger187 (Jan 7, 2012)

this is a good video series by Aronra i found the other day. boneheadbob should watch them 

[video=youtube;KnJX68ELbAY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&amp;v=KnJX68ELbAY[/video]


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## XTickTock (Jan 7, 2012)

This thread is pathetic you cant win a argument when the subject is religion.
and not one person can say that their beliefs are in fact the truth 
science holds no proof or evidence to a 100percent that a God does not exist,
here on earth science stands strong, but theorys on how it all began are mere educated guesses withier your belief is with science or religion we as humans have no definite answer for the questions
why are we here and what is our purpose? i myself happen to be a man of faith
i choose not to preach because i know it only start fights everyone should do the same.
and just for a little background information i used to be a atheist and believed that there was no reason for life and there was no such thing as a begging because a beginning represents the start of something and i believed there was no such thing as nothing and that there always has been something therefore
there is no answer. So before you choose to condemn someones religious beliefs I would suggest opening your mind and think before you talk. And remember opinions are like assholes everyone has one and everyones shit stinks. Now smoke some pot, relax and quit being so narrow minded.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jan 7, 2012)

Brick Top said:


> &#8220;Religion is the masterpiece of the art of animal training, for it trains people as to how they shall think.&#8221;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Check it out... Turn on the tv.. Oh what's that? It's called brainwashing and force feeding us their morals.. Turn on the radio.. Oh do you hear that? It's a bunch of people telling us how to act.. Go onto the Internet... Did you see what the latest trend is? People from across the world are trying to make us conform to what society thinks is right..


So yeah religion does these things, but please don't think that you're not a sheep following the pack just like religious people.


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## Heisenberg (Jan 7, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Check it out... Turn on the tv.. Oh what's that? It's called brainwashing and force feeding us their morals.. Turn on the radio.. Oh do you hear that? It's a bunch of people telling us how to act.. Go onto the Internet... Did you see what the latest trend is? People from across the world are trying to make us conform to what society thinks is right..
> 
> 
> So yeah religion does these things, but please don't think that you're not a sheep following the pack just like religious people.


This is your defense? Point and say 'you too". When I turn on TV or radio I don't here too much of people telling me what morals to have or how to think. I hear people giving opinions and what not, but I do not hear anyone claiming divine warrant for their opinions which includes the threat of eternal punishment unless I tune into a religious station, which incidentally seem to also be the only channels that panhandle their audiences for money. This is not confined to just media, religion often makes it's way to the front door.


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## XTickTock (Jan 7, 2012)

> Check it out... Turn on the tv.. Oh what's that? It's called brainwashing and force feeding us their morals.. Turn on the radio.. Oh do you hear that? It's a bunch of people telling us how to act.. Go onto the Internet... Did you see what the latest trend is? People from across the world are trying to make us conform to what society thinks is right..


get of the crystal, and you are a example of what you preach. now turn on the t.v. and keep getting brainwashed lol
im laughing because that kind of statement is exactly what "society" wants check the quotaions.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jan 7, 2012)

Heis, are you really trying to tell me that you don't see the brainwashing the media gives us?

Also, that wasn't a defense.. It was me agreeing with him while saying that religion isn't the only thing that takes over people.

And just like there's "consequences" for not following certain religions, there's consequences for not conforming to what the media tells us to do.. It's called being an outcast.

So what's the point of your last post tick tock? Is it just a petty insult?


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## Heisenberg (Jan 7, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Heis, are you really trying to tell me that you don't see the brainwashing the media gives us?


I am saying that it does not equate to nor excuse the manipulation inherit to religion.



> Also, that wasn't a defense.. It was me agreeing with him while saying that religion isn't the only thing that takes over people.


Fair enough



> And just like there's "consequences" for not following certain religions, there's consequences for not conforming to what the media tells us to do.. It's called being an outcast.


Being an outcast is very subjective. This would be a desired consequence for some. Is there anyone who would desire unending torture and burning? Political and media propaganda is a serious issue, but it is a red herring to bring it up in relation to religion. Likening religion to 'human training' is a cheeky way of making a legitimate point. You seemed to be shrugging your shoulders and saying "oh well everyone does it". Apparently I misunderstood you, and you were just saying everyone does it without shrugging your shoulders.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jan 7, 2012)

Yeah, this was honestly a misunderstanding. I'm not trying to justify the crap religion does... I guess I was just being a dick lol.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jan 7, 2012)

Oh, and yeah there are cults that want to be tortured and burned for eternity... Pretty crazy huh?


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## Heisenberg (Jan 7, 2012)

[video=youtube;kQFKtI6gn9Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y[/video]


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## Hepheastus420 (Jan 7, 2012)

Excuse me, I'd like to have an argument... Haha.. Gotta love Monty.


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## Farfenugen (Jan 8, 2012)

All religion is subjugation whether you think it otherwise. God or this "idea" of a god, is merely us damn dirty apes trying to make sense of a chaotic world by inventing an all knowing, all seeing, kind, yet vengeful being.


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## THZZELJR (Jan 9, 2012)

I grew up with atheist, at the age of 29 and a degree in computer science I am now catholic. Someday god will show himself in his own way to you. May it be Christian Buddhist Muslim or what have you. the funny thing is the more I study Plato Aristotle astronomy and physics. The more I believe in god.


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## THZZELJR (Jan 9, 2012)

crazy things I thought about in philosophy
If there is a god and he is all powerful can he create a rock so heavy that he cant lift it?
If yes than he is not omnipotent
If no than he is not omnipotent

If we can create a computer that simulates life who says we are not a simulation ourselves

If your sense of smell sight hearing touch and taste can be deceived how can you prove your own existence 

But in the end that is just human thinking we can never think god away. much in the same way you can not erase the sun by closing your curtains.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 9, 2012)

THZZELJR said:


> I grew up with atheist, at the age of 29 and a degree in computer science I am now catholic. Someday god will show himself in his own way to you. May it be Christian Buddhist Muslim or what have you. the funny thing is the more I study Plato Aristotle astronomy and physics. The more I believe in god.



Welcome to RIU.

What about Plato, Aristotle or astronomy or physics makes you believe in God?



THZZELJR said:


> crazy things I thought about in philosophy
> If there is a god and he is all powerful can he create a rock so heavy that he cant lift it?
> If yes than he is not omnipotent
> If no than he is not omnipotent
> ...



Life could very well be a simulation, how does that support the idea a god exists?

You can't _prove_ anything with absolute certainty. 

There is still nothing to support the idea that a god exists as anything other than a figment of a few billion peoples imagination.


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## THZZELJR (Jan 9, 2012)

Science can explain the big bang but never explain what came before. the more we learn it seems the less we actually KNOW. I completely agree I can not give you empirical evidence that god exists. physics cant explain why I can not walk through walls mathematically I should be able to, same is said for why time only goes forward. Mathematically it should be able to randomly reverse.
I believe everything in the universe is connected which can be proven by quantum entanglement

[video=youtube;9lOWZ0Wv218]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lOWZ0Wv218&amp;feature=related[/video]
[video=youtube;Bcz4vGvoxQA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcz4vGvoxQA[/video]*

Makes me wonder how this all could be an accident and how come we seem to be alone
how come earth like planets are so rare
how come our galaxy is so perfect to breed carbon based life
we have a moon to protect us we have Jupiter to protect us and we have a asteroid belt to protect us
we are the perfect distance form the sun
water is the only substance to expand when it is froze
all these things are necessary to our existence and yet it seems this is the only place to find it *

but in the end I can only testify to my own experiences with god touching me and if your not a believer you would say I see what i want to see at best or certifiable at worst. But honestly why would you not want to believe in something pure and loving that is totally unlike humanity


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 9, 2012)

THZZELJR said:


> Science can explain the big bang but never explain what came before. the more we learn it seems the less we actually KNOW. I completely agree I can not give you empirical evidence that god exists. physics cant explain why I can not walk through walls mathematically I should be able to, same is said for why time only goes forward. Mathematically it should be able to randomly reverse.
> I believe everything in the universe is connected which can be proven by quantum entanglement



Listen to what you're saying, essentially this argument breaks down to "I don't know how _________ happened, so God must have done it". That is not an explanation for anything. 

This is called the 'God of the gaps argument';

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

What we need is positive evidence for God's existence, not gaps where science hasn't filled in the holes yet and claim that because there's a hole there, it MUST be God. What happens when we do find the answer to the question that filled the hole (flat Earth, demons as the cause for illness, geocentric universe, etc.)? God becomes essentially moot.



THZZELJR said:


> *Makes me wonder how this all could be an accident and how come we seem to be alone
> how come earth like planets are so rare
> how come our galaxy is so perfect to breed carbon based life
> we have a moon to protect us we have Jupiter to protect us and we have a asteroid belt to protect us
> ...



Because wanting to believe in something doesn't give me any kind of false comfort to cope with existence. If you thought a little bit about that you would realize it's only an illusion, in the same way drugs help drug addicts cope with their existence. It's a false comfort. Is it wrong? Not necessarily, but it can, and often does, become dangerous. At that point no amount of comfort, even if it was real, would make any difference to me. My comfort isn't worth someone elses pain.


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## THZZELJR (Jan 10, 2012)

yup its a timeless argument. but believe and you'll see. I used to hate religion myself then I gave it a chance and crazy "coincidences" started happening. At first my intentions were to remain open minded and mainly use religion to better my outlook on life. But maybe your right I do want to believe, therefore I do. 
All I know is I know nothing at all for sure. but in all honesty I would say spirituality does help you cope with life. I'm sure your aware of neurological studies of people praying and meditating elevate dopamine levels. I'm not saying that's proof of anything other than it can be helpful with stress.
I used to feel the same about religion causing others problems. I grew up in a atheist home, went to prison and saw the evil of men do. Especially the so called religious men, seemed to so violent. I cursed everyone's god for a long time. but then someone came along that challenged my very nature. Forced me to rethink my views I realized I was living such a cold shallow life by not embracing spirituality. Yes it was a female lol. but trust me I refused to change for anyone but myself or my child. I may have done some really horrible things (all the sins except 1) but I always looked people in the eyes while doing it. I started to study all popular religions and came to the conclusion its not religion that is evil or dangerous its the people that make it so. I chose to embrace the catholic beliefs even though I do know all the evil that is present in some of its congregation and clergy. At its core teachings it is not violent or sexual its people that make it so. Just like another religion. Well some eastern religions are very sexual though. But even if your not spiritual in any form please realize the majority of Christians and Muslims and Buddhists are peaceful and kind. organized religion has helped me become a calmer more reasonable forgiving man. I can practice in my home alone but being around others that have the same intentions is what helps keep me focused. Much as we are organized here to focus on our growing. there are some that use MJ as something evil and there are those of us in the majority on this site that are not.


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## tyler.durden (Jan 10, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> This is your defense? Point and say 'you too". When I turn on TV or radio I don't here too much of people telling me what morals to have or how to think. I hear people giving opinions and what not, but I do not hear anyone claiming divine warrant for their opinions which includes the threat of eternal punishment unless I tune into a religious station, which incidentally seem to also be the only channels that panhandle their audiences for money...


Man, Heis, you should listen to WFMT out of Chicago. Greatest classical station in the world. But, GODDAMN! They're holding a pledge drive every other WEEK. I'm going to stop listening to classical music if this keeps up


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 10, 2012)

THZZELJR said:


> yup its a timeless argument. but believe and you'll see.


This is a worthless argument. I don't mean that to be offensive. It just doesn't offer me anything. "Believe and you'll see"? I "believed" for at least 10 years as much as I possibly could given my own circumstances, yet here I sit, non believer as they come. What did I do wrong?



THZZELJR said:


> I used to hate religion myself then I gave it a chance and crazy "coincidences" started happening.


I don't "hate" religion in the same sense I don't "hate" Bart Simpson. Could you go into more detail about the "coincidences"? I'm more than interested. What was it that led to you changing your mind, and more specifically, what led you to Catholicism? 



THZZELJR said:


> At first my intentions were to remain open minded and mainly use religion to better my outlook on life.


Which is perfectly acceptable if not admirable.



THZZELJR said:


> But maybe your right I do want to believe, therefore I do.


Consider this; Can you _want_ to believe anything else? Can you want to believe the sky is red? The Earth is flat? You're mother is a man? 

This is a point I try to stress often, and it comes up surprisingly often in conversations; Beliefs aren't chosen. You believe things *BECAUSE YOU CAN'T* choose to believe anything different.



THZZELJR said:


> All I know is I know nothing at all for sure.


Respectable.



THZZELJR said:


> but in all honesty I would say spirituality does help you cope with life.


I agree, that is, if we're both using our own definitions of 'spirituality'.



THZZELJR said:


> I used to feel the same about religion causing others problems. I grew up in a atheist home, went to prison and saw the evil of men do. Especially the so called religious men, seemed to so violent. I cursed everyone's god for a long time. but then someone came along that challenged my very nature. Forced me to rethink my views I realized I was living such a cold shallow life by not embracing spirituality. Yes it was a female lol. but trust me I refused to change for anyone but myself or my child. I may have done some really horrible things (all the sins except 1) but I always looked people in the eyes while doing it. I started to study all popular religions and came to the conclusion its not religion that is evil or dangerous its the people that make it so. I chose to embrace the catholic beliefs even though I do know all the evil that is present in some of its congregation and clergy. At its core teachings it is not violent or sexual its people that make it so. Just like another religion. Well some eastern religions are very sexual though. But even if your not spiritual in any form please realize the majority of Christians and Muslims and Buddhists are peaceful and kind. organized religion has helped me become a calmer more reasonable forgiving man. I can practice in my home alone but being around others that have the same intentions is what helps keep me focused. Much as we are organized here to focus on our growing. there are some that use MJ as something evil and there are those of us in the majority on this site that are not.


I understand this perspective. Most use religion for good purposes that lead them to fulfillment in their own lives. This is a good thing. But when everything is considered, I mean all of human history, we have to look at it with an honest eye and admit our mistakes and faults where they are, in order to get better as a species. That's something we owe to the future generations. I feel this way and I don't have any kids. If you could pinpoint some kind of objective purpose for us, how could that not possibly be it? Why not take the good and leave behind the archaic, irrelevant bad? Why not study and research human morality so we can teach it? 

Naive delusions are obstacles to this pursuit. Admitting it is a step in a positive direction. 

PS. This is just scratching the surface.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jan 10, 2012)

Bull on fire by hunter van larkins is a good song.


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## LEDsnake (Jan 10, 2012)

Humans just happened with interactions of DNA molecules from amino acids. We went from Dinosaurs to Humans, with who knows what else in between, all most likely DNA dependant. The Dinosaurs were only preserved in fossil form due to a quick burial from an asteroid.
We are like a virus to the Earth, spilling oil into the oceans, spilling CO2 into the air, depleting resources, bombing each other, etc (The list certainly goes on) Why doesn't god step in and stop this or even fix this human mentality from the get go? He can create the damn universe but can't fix a bunch of human viruses. Why didn't he leave any evidence behind? Then there would be reason to worship his sorry ass for making us so problematic. 
God created earth and water, but makes it 97% SALT!
God creates bible, makes revisions every year to match the trend.
God creates comets and asteroids, dance human dance!
God creates religion, he's bored? Likes drama?
God creates MJ plants, he's inside the seed playing houdini.
God creates women, but makes them bleed 25% of their useful life. Accompanied by thier pms bitching. There must...IS a better way to shed that egg. 
God creates men, requires they get circumcized.
God creates humans, he really fucked up here. Maybe you're right. Maybe he doesn't want to show his face to save himself the embarassment.
God is for people who are incapable of making decisions themselves and they need to be told what's right from wrong. How is that supposed to make you smarter? That promotes rapists, pedophiles, extremists, dumbasses. There's evidence on the internet that the IQ of majority of religious people are much lower than the majority of atheists. If kids weren't forced to accept god, they wouldn't have a reason to think he exists. They'll think, wow what a messed up world. Greed, lies, and destruction.
I used to believe in Santa when I was younger, but that trend didn't have the needed funding (religion is a big player in the financial area) or it was just bad timing, or it was just that he DOESN'T exist, like god.
No need to waste time fighting over if he exists or not, he doesn't. Does it get any plain and simpler than that? Is he under the couch? Floating in the polluted ozoneless sky? Up my ass? Probably the last option. To each their own. I'd rather spend my brain power on making myself educated and smarter than sit around reading and preeching a book that's a waste of paper and ink. I'm not hating, wait I am, but people hate AIDS/HIV too right?


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## Hepheastus420 (Jan 10, 2012)

The bible was definetely not a waste of paper and ink.. Even if god isn't real, the bible still created many laws that we base our laws off of today.. Without these laws (I'm not saying the bible is the onlt place we get our laws from), we would be killing and stealing each other alot more.


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## mindphuk (Jan 10, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> The bible was definetely not a waste of paper and ink.. Even if god isn't real, the bible still created many laws that we base our laws off of today.. Without these laws (I'm not saying the bible is the onlt place we get our laws from), we would be killing and stealing each other alot more.


Out of the 613 laws in the bible, only about 3 of them are also laws in secular society and even those three are not unique to and actually predate the bible.


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## Carne Seca (Jan 11, 2012)

[video=youtube;OL5yplRHE9g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL5yplRHE9g[/video]


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## st0wandgrow (Jan 11, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Listen to what you're saying, essentially this argument breaks down to "I don't know how _________ happened, so God must have done it". That is not an explanation for anything.
> 
> This is called the 'God of the gaps argument';
> 
> ...


^What he said^


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## Hepheastus420 (Jan 11, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> Out of the 613 laws in the bible, only about 3 of them are also laws in secular society and even those three are not unique to and actually predate the bible.


Why is the bible so big in the US then? Serious question... I'm not asking an any kind of tone.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jan 11, 2012)

Carne Seca said:


> [video=youtube;OL5yplRHE9g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL5yplRHE9g[/video]


You're aware that this video is just an insult to creationists right? I thought you were a creationist (not that it matters).


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## dtp5150 (Jan 11, 2012)

dismiss the ideas of faith, limited liability, "teaching someone a lesson", punishment, authority, etc and enforce the ideas of personal liability and responsibility, and individual spiritual growth.


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## stonerman (Jan 19, 2012)

Rome kept Christianity illegal for over 400 years after the death of Jesus Christ. Basically.... laws still will not keep people from believing in god. Criminalizing all acts of worshiping god would be a good start though. Anybody caught with a bible will be charged with possession lol. And anybody caught praying will spend an over nighter in jail. To stop, what has gone out for thousands of years will be very difficult, Maybe put all the religious folk on an island and then god will have an easier time keeping track of his believers.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 19, 2012)

proper education would fix that problem i think...maybe


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## oldschooltofu (Jan 19, 2012)

if only the aliens would make a press release telling us the real story.


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## Stonerman Enoch (Jan 19, 2012)

This is a stupid fucking thread.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 19, 2012)

only because your religious...duuuuhhhh


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## Stonerman Enoch (Jan 20, 2012)

partly, but also trying to eradicate religion is like asking for world peace, it's not going to happen. 

Keep dreaming I guess


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## Justin00 (Jan 20, 2012)

a bigot asking how to eliminate religion is like a racist asking how to eliminate another race.

if your too ignorant to understand the audacity of your request then im afarid your past the point of hope.

the question you should be asking is how can we (those who are religious *and* those who are not) adapt to fit into a world together and get along.

your basically a back woods white supremacist asking how can we get rid of black people rather than asking how can we work together to not have a problem anymore. and the sad part is you don't even see it. 

i understand why you think religion its self is causing a problem for you but your overlooking so many things. the fact is that you are accepting the modern media bandwagon stereotypes and directing them at a minority for selfish reasons.

thats all i'm going to say on the matter, i HATE bigots and hypocrites no matter who they are targeting be it a race, a religion, a nationality, ect. you are the problem not the world. learn to adapt and thrive in diversity and use it to benefit the growing and expanding culture of humanity.


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## Heisenberg (Jan 20, 2012)

Justin00 said:


> a bigot asking how to eliminate religion is like a racist asking how to eliminate another race.
> 
> if your too ignorant to understand the audacity of your request then im afarid your past the point of hope.
> 
> ...


_Ever ordered Sea Monkeys from the back of a comic book? They are not monkeys at all, but brine shrimp, tiny creatures whose eggs survive long periods in a nearly-dry state.__I can only hope that you will join with me in my outrage. Brine shrimp eggs are ripped from their natural habitat and shipped to hatch far from family and friends. Many eggs do not survive the arduous trip. The lucky ones that survive do not live free, but are doomed to an unfulfilling aquarium life as the property of snot-nosed kids. It is not unlike the early slave trade in the U.S.

If you are tempted to click Add Comment, be forewarned. Should you challenge my likening the brine shrimp trade to the slave trade, or question whether brine shrimp are capable of feeling fulfilled or unfulfilled, or ask me to back up the claim that kids are snot-nosed  I have an ace up my sleeve. I shall call you a racist. Nay, even better, I shall accuse you of being pro-slavery. 

Its a nifty, sleight-of-mind trick that lets me get away with begging the question, setting up a straw man and launching an ad hominem attack, all while looking like Im defending decency. Heck, I may even fool myself.

__If youd like to try my trick, here are the steps: (1) Make a claim and apply it to a worthy cause. (2) Should people challenge assumptions underlying the claim, accuse them of opposing the cause. (3). Call them names and encourage others to jump on your bandwagon Thus it will make short work of any opponents. _

_Of course, this doesn't happen in the real world. Skeptics arent so inhuman as to indulge such tactics, wittingly or unwittingly, much less fall for them. Thank goodness for that.

_
Written by Steve Cuno Wednesday, 18 January 2012
​


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## hazorazo (Jan 20, 2012)

Justin00 said:


> a bigot asking how to eliminate religion is like a racist asking how to eliminate another race.
> 
> if your too ignorant to understand the audacity of your request then im afarid your past the point of hope.
> 
> ...


Funny, I do not like religious zealots. I would say the world would be a better place without organized religion. Period. Most of the world's wars have been fought over some form of religion, etc. This is part of what KEEPS us divided, RELIGION. If everyone believes THEIR religion is right, then WHO is wrong? Someone HAS to be, and everyone is always sure it is not them. 

Overall, being born a certain color is a lot different than putting the blinders on and condemning all other religions. Religion is an idea, and a crappy one at that. I can judge you on your stupid ideas all day long. I do not think it is ok to judge you for being born a certain way....black, white, gay, lesbian, straight. In my opinion, no one is born a Christian.....you are baptized after you are born, not while you are in the womb. And you certainly lack the cognitive abilities when you are born to decide what religion you are.....

Eradicating an idea is not always a bad thing. Eradicating a RACE, is. Big difference, there.


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## cannabiscuit7 (Jan 20, 2012)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> I know in the uk, religion has become less n less popular in the last 15 years , most people who claim to be religious have never even been to church and only say they believe in there god because they have been told to do so growing up .when you question there beliefs they have no idea what they are talking about .I truly believe people in the uk are slowly waking up to religion and it lies . but what about places like america ? religion has a massive grip on the people and has a massive wealth behind it able to indoctrinate religious belief to children in schools on the tv and at your doorstep .
> How do we go about erradicating this evil and hatred for good ?


i didnt bother reading this ignorant thread,i just wanted to quote you and ask you why is it everytime i see a thread started by you,it knocks on other peoples beliefs.Obviously your a very scared and lonely atheist,and the only way to make yourself feel better is to keep making these dumb threads.If your not able to see through religon and realize its sole purpose is for moral values than your as dumb and ignorant as i thought.


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## Heisenberg (Jan 20, 2012)

cannabiscuit7 said:


> i didnt bother reading this ignorant thread,i just wanted to quote you and ask you why is it everytime i see a thread started by you,it knocks on other peoples beliefs.Obviously your a very scared and lonely atheist,and the only way to make yourself feel better is to keep making these dumb threads.*If your not able to see through religon and realize its sole purpose is for moral values than your as dumb and ignorant as i thought*.


Name one moral value that is unique to religion. What morals would we lack if religion had never been invented? Is there anything amoral proposed in religion? Do you agree that women are inferior? Do you think it's okay to kill people who work on Sunday? Do you suppose it's okay to threaten someone with eternal punishment without being sure hell even exists?

The evils that come from religion are unique and cruel, the morals that come from religion are generic and borrowed from basic human decency. People pick the morals they agree with and discount the rest.


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## cannabiscuit7 (Jan 20, 2012)

[video=youtube_share;sbSbrKvIYOk]http://youtu.be/sbSbrKvIYOk[/video]
heres my stand on evolution lol


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## cannabiscuit7 (Jan 20, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> Name one moral value that is unique to religion. What morals would we lack if religion had never been invented? Is there anything amoral proposed in religion? Do you agree that women are inferior? Do you think it's okay to kill people who work on Sunday? Do you suppose it's okay to threaten someone with eternal punishment without being sure hell even exists?
> 
> The evils that come from religion are unique and cruel, the morals that come from religion are generic and borrowed from basic human decency. People pick the morals they agree with and discount the rest.


what religon says women are inferior?muslim?theyve had the same religous values for thosands of years,even though i do not agree with some of it,they have the right to Worship god however they want.And hell is just another word for"cosequence" as heaven is "reward".Without these established religons,we'd still be worshiping hawks,bears,etc. and sacrificing people so it might rain that season.


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## Heisenberg (Jan 20, 2012)

cannabiscuit7 said:


> what religon says women are inferior?muslim?theyve had the same religous values for thosands of years,even though i do not agree with some of it,they have the right to Worship god however they want.And hell is just another word for"cosequence" as heaven is "reward".Without these established religons,we'd still be worshiping hawks,bears,etc. and sacrificing people so it might rain that season.


We are not talking about the right to worship, we are talking about establishing moral values. You claimed the sole purpose of religion is for moral values, and I asked you to list one, just one, moral value that is unique to religion. I then pointed out some amoral teachings of scripture, which you rationalized away instead of considering.

Is there any morals unique to religion?

Is any amoral behavior commanded by religion?

Of course blanket statemented are always wrong, there are always exceptions, but the context of this thread has been established as speaking of biblical religions.


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## hazorazo (Jan 20, 2012)

cannabiscuit7 said:


> i didnt bother reading this ignorant thread,i just wanted to quote you and ask you why is it everytime i see a thread started by you,it knocks on other peoples beliefs.Obviously your a very scared and lonely atheist,and the only way to make yourself feel better is to keep making these dumb threads.If your not able to see through religon and realize its sole purpose is for moral values than your as dumb and ignorant as i thought.


You just knocked his beliefs, and called him dumb and ignorant for not thinking the same way you do....that religions are for moral values. Silly dude, didn't you learn anything in church. Do unto others.........turn the other cheek.....laughing wholeheartedly, outloud at your last 3 posts. Silly arguments at best. And putting down the very thread you posted in.....fucking priceless.....lol.


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## cannabiscuit7 (Jan 20, 2012)

if you find peace and happiness in Atheism than hats off to you.When you start a thread asking how to 'eradicate' my religon thats when i take offense.


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## cannabiscuit7 (Jan 20, 2012)

hazorazo said:


> You just knocked his beliefs, and called him dumb and ignorant for not thinking the same way you do....that religions are for moral values. Silly dude, didn't you learn anything in church. Do unto others.........turn the other cheek.....laughing wholeheartedly, outloud at your last 3 posts. Silly arguments at best. And putting down the very thread you posted in.....fucking priceless.....lol.


he is dumb and ignorant and you are too.And i didnt call him dumb and ignorant because he doesnt believe in god or has different beliefs.Hes dumb and ignorant for starting a dumb and ignorant thread


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## Heisenberg (Jan 20, 2012)

cannabiscuit7 said:


> if you find peace and happiness in Atheism than hats off to you.When you start a thread asking how to 'eradicate' my religon thats when i take offense.


Being offended is part of life, and a risk you take when you subscribe to irrational unjustified claims. Criticism and doubt are basic tools of progress. How fragile are religious beliefs if they can't stand up to dispute? You use your offense to double down on your bad ideas, instead of noticing that this thread took the time to establish why religion is bad and why it should go. Your problem is with the simple sentiment that it should go, yet you don't care to take the time to actually examine and refute the motivation behind the sentiment. Your attitude and approach resembles bigotry more than intelligent debate.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jan 20, 2012)

lets start by bull dozing churches


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## cannabiscuit7 (Jan 20, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> We are not talking about the right to worship, we are talking about establishing moral values. You claimed the sole purpose of religion is for moral values, and I asked you to list one, just one, moral value that is unique to religion. I then pointed out some amoral teachings of scripture, which you rationalized away instead of considering.
> 
> Is there any morals unique to religion?
> 
> ...


there isnt any morals unique to religon,the purpose of religon is spirituality.When my mother got sick,i had somewhere to turn to,to keep me going through the "black and white" in life.If there was a moral unique to religon id say id be the will to do good and others good as well.


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## hazorazo (Jan 20, 2012)

cannabiscuit7 said:


> there isnt any morals unique to religon,the purpose of religon is spirituality.When my mother got sick,i had somewhere to turn to,to keep me going through the "black and white" in life.If there was a moral unique to religon id say id be the will to do good and others good as well.


That is a moral which is NOT unique to churches and religion. Having the will to do good and do good to others is a HUMAN set of morals, found in almost EVERY religion, community, etc. Not unique at all to religion, or to any subset of religion.


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## Heisenberg (Jan 20, 2012)

cannabiscuit7 said:


> there isnt any morals unique to religon,the purpose of religon is spirituality.When my mother got sick,i had somewhere to turn to,to keep me going through the "black and white" in life.If there was a moral unique to religon id say id be the will to do good and others good as well.


So religion provides certainty and security during a time when we need answers. That is a fine point to make, but does nothing to back up your statement that the sole purpose of religion is for moral values. You made this statement after accusing someone of being ignorant and inconsiderate. You called the kettle black. 

There are three ways to defend religion, and this thread has disputed them all.

1) religion is true - no one can responsibly claim this

2) religion does good - religion does nothing good that can't be found elsewhere, and fosters many unique cruelties

3) Atheism is wrong/amoral - Atheism is the lack of a belief, and makes no claims nor proposes no policies. It is utterly without content.


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## hazorazo (Jan 20, 2012)

cannabiscuit7 said:


> he is dumb and ignorant and you are too.And i didnt call him dumb and ignorant because he doesnt believe in god or has different beliefs.Hes dumb and ignorant for starting a dumb and ignorant thread


Are you going to pray for forgiveness for calling so many people names. SINNER! LOL. Fact is, you have no idea what he is talking about in this thread. Having a discussion about the idea of ridding man of religion for the betterment of man is an intellectual discussion. Maybe you should pray about it, and God will tell you I am right.

Overall, I think this thread is targeting religion because religion and people's faith has often been the reason for so many wars, and bloodshed. Intellectuals (atheists as you call them) have taken note of this fact, and are now having a discussion about how nice the world would be without religion in it. Where is the problem? It is not like he said we are going to eradicate YOU for thinking that way, just get rid of religion as a common stumbling block for our society. 

Tell me this.....which religion has it right? There are SOOOOOO many different religions, someone HAS to be wrong, don't they? So who has it right, and who decides this?

Sure, I can credit religion with getting you through rough times, but the same can be said for good friends and family. What you rely on religion for, I rely on my friends and family for. And with friends and family, I get to have an actual discussion with PEOPLE........not some discussion with a made up god in my mind who agrees with everything I think.

I am glad some people get strength from faith. But faith has caused so much bloodshed, it is impossible for any historian or intellectual to ignore.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 20, 2012)

hazorazo said:


> Are you going to pray for forgiveness for calling so many people names. SINNER! LOL. Fact is, you have no idea what he is talking about in this thread. Having a discussion about the idea of ridding man of religion for the betterment of man is an intellectual discussion. Maybe you should pray about it, and God will tell you I am right.
> 
> Overall, I think this thread is targeting religion because religion and people's faith has often been the reason for so many wars, and bloodshed. Intellectuals (atheists as you call them) have taken note of this fact, and are now having a discussion about how nice the world would be without religion in it. Where is the problem? It is not like he said we are going to eradicate YOU for thinking that way, just get rid of religion as a common stumbling block for our society.
> 
> ...



...at the height or religion stands esoteric teachings. What I read is my choice to make. How you label my choice of reads is not something I can control. Esoteric teachings are unitive in principle (I suppose the ultimate of that being a solid family), more or less the opposite of a view that divides with the razor.

At any rate, every religion says that they are 'the word'. A person has to know that they are all right. Everything else, the madness, the bloodshed, these things are done by humans, not the principles that these books try to portrait. You're basically trying to say that if 'holy' books didn't exist, then war would surely follow. I can't say that is accurate.


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## hazorazo (Jan 20, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...at the height or religion stands esoteric teachings. What I read is my choice to make. How you label my choice of reads is not something I can control. Esoteric teachings are unitive in principle (I suppose the ultimate of that being a solid family), more or less the opposite of a view that divides with the razor.
> 
> At any rate, every religion says that they are 'the word'. A person has to know that they are all right. Everything else, the madness, the bloodshed, these things are done by humans, not the principles that these books try to portrait. You're basically trying to say that if 'holy' books didn't exist, then war would surely follow. I can't say that is accurate.


That was not my point at all.....just that without religion, there would be LESS to fight about.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 20, 2012)

hazorazo said:


> That was not my point at all.....just that without religion, there would be LESS to fight about.


...the fight is cultural. I think religion, as a reconciliation of opposites, tries to balance the fighting. I'm just saying that the psycho bastards would be howling at the moon either way. Take religion out of the picture and the there would have been another name for us to discuss


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## Blaze Master (Jan 20, 2012)

the only way to eradicate religion is with education


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## sso (Jan 20, 2012)

s´funny about the middle eastern religions.

here we got adam and eve.

alone,

so basically, their kids had sex with one another. (that musta been a fun scenario)

and the entire human race is inbred. (basically its a deliverance scenario but on a large scale)

which would incidentally explain alot of things,us being inbred beyond fuckdom. but not how the big g didnt see that coming 


all religions fall apart at closer inspection.



though, the way humanity really fucked itself in the rear.

was by paying all the attention on the small things, like god and angels and crap like that, and missing the really important message.

love.

caring, sharing.

being a one big family instead of this collection of hillbilly fucktards that occasionally go serialkiller.


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## warrengjustice747 (Jan 20, 2012)

Aliens are the key to end religion. as soon as we see some aliens all those Ancient-Aliens-Theorist will take a big old shit on religon and be like i told you so bitches aliens are our gods mothafuckas!


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## Hepheastus420 (Jan 20, 2012)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lets start by bull dozing churches


The best damn answer here lol.... I personally would destroy all churches.


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## cannabiscuit7 (Jan 21, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> So religion provides certainty and security during a time when we need answers. That is a fine point to make, but does nothing to back up your statement that the sole purpose of religion is for moral values. You made this statement after accusing someone of being ignorant and inconsiderate. You called the kettle black.
> 
> There are three ways to defend religion, and this thread has disputed them all.
> 
> ...





hazorazo said:


> Are you going to pray for forgiveness for calling so many people names. SINNER! LOL. Fact is, you have no idea what he is talking about in this thread. Having a discussion about the idea of ridding man of religion for the betterment of man is an intellectual discussion. Maybe you should pray about it, and God will tell you I am right.
> 
> Overall, I think this thread is targeting religion because religion and people's faith has often been the reason for so many wars, and bloodshed. Intellectuals (atheists as you call them) have taken note of this fact, and are now having a discussion about how nice the world would be without religion in it. Where is the problem? It is not like he said we are going to eradicate YOU for thinking that way, just get rid of religion as a common stumbling block for our society.
> 
> ...


alright,i apologize for being a total bigot coming on this thread the other day.I still want to discuss one thing however.

Now was it the teachings in holy documents that caused so much bloodshed?or was it the tyrants who twisted the teachings for propaganda of their own gain?(just want to discuss and see what your view on this is)


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## hazorazo (Jan 21, 2012)

cannabiscuit7 said:


> alright,i apologize for being a total bigot coming on this thread the other day.I still want to discuss one thing however.
> 
> Now was it the teachings in holy documents that caused so much bloodshed?or was it the tyrants who twisted the teachings for propaganda of their own gain?(just want to discuss and see what your view on this is)


The tyrants had a large part to do with twisting the words of holy books....this much we all know to be true. I think a large part of the problems is this.....most of the world's religions are used by man to JUDGE, instead of to open up the heart to generosity, love, caring, forgiveness. 

Overall, I think the bible is a book of stories and fables for folks to read and enjoy. Take from it what you will, but DO NOT try to push it on me. And DO NOT condemn me because I do not agree with your belief in a little story book. Next thing we know, people will be saying that if you do not believe in Santa Claus, you are going to hell, and unAmerican. 

I think people just take religion too seriously. And wars would still exist without religion. We still fight over food, love, land, water, etc. It would just take one big fight out of the human existence. A fight where NO ONE wins. Why does no one win? Because no one can ever prove that THEIR religion is right. They just sit there and fucking preach at you, like it is fact, and they look like fucking idiots to a guy like me.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 21, 2012)

I agree wars would still be waged if religion in today's sense was eradicated, but I can't imagine they'd be on the same scale as today. 

Invasions took place when the world was being colonized, today, there are people on every speck of the planet, not much to go explore anymore and stake land for your home country and fight off natives. Resources, sure, we see that happening all over the place, but when this reasoning is brought up it always makes me wonder 'would it be that easy to get people to go along with stealing another group of peoples resources _without _religion?', I guess it's similar to Weinberg's quote. You're getting ultimate authority and justification from God (according to the clergy), without that what justification is there? Maybe I'm thinking too much into it, who really needs justification when it comes down to survival? When it comes to _survival_, morals go out the window to a lot of people. Then you could always argue 'is stealing another group of peoples resources _really_ "survival"?'.. What implications are there if it is, if it isn't? 

We're still just apes with computers.


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## PetFlora (Jan 21, 2012)

Religion is the ultimate mind control programming. I have religious wacko friends that I have for years tried to break them. They just aren't open minded- the programming has been that good


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## cannabineer (Jan 21, 2012)

Padawan, I think that religion is typically used as a pretext for war, but only rarely as the prime mover. The prime movers are and will be territory and resources.
Invoking religious belief andor destiny is pure whitewash designed to make an act that is as inevitable as it is immoral ... somehow right. cn


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## Prophecy (Jan 21, 2012)

With CONSCIENTIOUS And CONSCIOUS OBEDIENCE To The DIVINE KNOWLEDGEs And THINGs Of The HOLY SPIRIT (Of Our SOUL's).


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## dtp5150 (Jan 22, 2012)

eliminate the notion of labeling people


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## ganjaguy66 (Jan 24, 2012)

Education is the only way, but even some otherwise very intelligent people have grown up with this indoctrination of lies and refuse to see logic and reality. I have tried so many times to point out the fallacies in "god's" word and their answer is always the same. (It's all about faith in the unseen, or, It's god's way and we aren't meant to understand) Bill Maher said it best "Praying to god is like telepathically communicating with your imaginary friend." The truth is that religion has done so much more harm than good. It has caused the death of more people than we can ever know and caused so many psychological problems due to guilt. And let's not forget all the child raping priests out there. Heaven has streets paved with gold or you get 70 virgins???? That shit is just crazy. I always recommend Bill Maher's documentary "Religulous" then urge them to research the points made in the movie. Peace And Love


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 24, 2012)

ganjaguy66 said:


> Education is the only way, but even some otherwise very intelligent people have grown up with this indoctrination of lies and refuse to see logic and reality. I have tried so many times to point out the fallacies in "god's" word and their answer is always the same. (It's all about faith in the unseen, or, It's god's way and we aren't meant to understand) Bill Maher said it best "Praying to god is like telepathically communicating with your imaginary friend." The truth is that religion has done so much more harm than good. It has caused the death of more people than we can ever know and caused so many psychological problems due to guilt. And let's not forget all the child raping priests out there. Heaven has streets paved with gold or you get 70 virgins???? That shit is just crazy. I always recommend Bill Maher's documentary "Religulous" then urge them to research the points made in the movie. Peace And Love



...it's funny how people shouldn't read a book and make changes in life. Yet, you can watch a movie and fix the world of its 'indoctrination'. You're saying believers have all these problems that need to be fixed but you *do not understand the meaning of symbols (**OR the need for them)*.

Good luck to you


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 24, 2012)

...I read the stuff in here about how you have to eradicate religion, etc. etc. 'Attack the foundations' was a good one.

Tell me, what are the foundations of religion? How can you attack something that is immaterial? Man, this is good. Believers are nuts because they believe in sht they can't see, right? I guess I'll grab a chair and watch you guys strike blows at the invisible pillars.


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