# DaGambler's 4k HPS 99 Plant Hempy Grow



## DaGambler (Feb 4, 2009)

Goal: A modest 5 lbs. per crop, 4 crops per year. (EDIT: 6lbs. per crop, 5 crops per year.)
Sensi's G13xHP (Mr. Nice), Serious's White Russian, and some freebie Durban Poison, White Widow, and Power Skunk (all three G13 Labs)

The -Initial- Setup:

(4) 1000w HPS in 15' by 13' flowering room, using a 10' by 10' footprint (Two 5' by 10' areas)
(12) Flourescent T12 four foot two-bulb fixtures in the clone/veg room
(2) 6" inline fans for the Cooltubes, with an emphasis on climate control
(4) oscillating fans in the flower room, each corner
(1) UvonAir3000 Ozone Generator on ceiling
(1) DIY carbon filter with thermostat control for venting hot air in flower room
(1) 65 qt. Dehumidifier in flower room, Humidfier in clone/veg room
(1) space heater, portable a.c. if needed come summer-time (hopefully it won't be needed)
(1) Reverse Osmosis 100 gallon a day filtration system to combat ridiculous tap water
(1) 44 gallon rubbermaid trash can for reservoir with 330 gph submersible pump on hose with wand
(99) 3 gallon buckets filled with perlite and a 1" hole two inches from the bottom that is screened over
(12) 4 cu. ft. bags of perlite, each fills ten 3 gal. pots
(8 ) members of fauna (indoor animals including myself), for a combined total of approx. 1200 lbs. of biological CO2 supplementing organisms.

Assorted timers, extension cords, rolls of mylar, bags of Miracle Grow Seed Starting Mix, styrofoam and clear plastic cups for clones, Dip 'N Gro, General Hydroponics Bloom and Micro (Lucas Formula), M.G. for Tomatoes, Rooting Fertilizer, Neem Oil, Fruit Tree Spray (Pyrethrum), Safer Soap, Malathion, insect traps, micro beasties, H2O2, pH meter, buffer solution, pH Up, ppm meter, light meter, moisture meter, thermometer, humidity meter, couple rolls of romex wire, outlets, surge protectors, 100 amp two-pole breaker, insulated ducting, duct pieces, silver tarps, shelving, paint, caulking, rolls of foil tape, chains, balls of steel, low I.Q., wing and a prayer, etc.

Welcome To My Grow !!! I need some RIU Credibility / Rep ... so don't be stingy ye 'ol bastards !!! 

Okay, so Picture 1 is just a shot of the seed/clone/veg setup in a 10' by 10'ish room. Primarily two shelves for plants with a total of (12) 4' two bulb flourescent fixtures. In pic you see a humidifier and a sample of how i clone: the blue cup with a clear cup on top for a humidity dome (though i actually use styrofoam on bottom and have to trim the top lip off the clear cup so that it nests inside the styrofoam one. I use M.G. Seed Starting Mix and Dip 'N Grow. Not pictured, but also in this room is, a 44 gal. reservoir up on a third shelf and a 100 gal. per day Reverse Osmosis system. A 330 h.p. submersible pump fills a water hose that goes into the next room.

Picture 2: (Flower Room) Be scared, be very scared. The scariest thing is that all 6 of these Romex strands (indoor romex) travel underground (w/o conduit) and up into the electric box where they are all connected to a dual pole 100 amp breaker (3 per pole). Aside from the power strip attached to each one, there is no smaller breaker between the 100 amp breaker and the equipment. This takes care of all my electric except for a cord that i ran in for the de-humidifier.

Picture 3: (The Money Shot) Four CoolTubes (two 6" and two 8") on 6" insulated ducting, 2 inline GrowBright fans (52 dB), a oscillating fan in 3 of 4 corners. The clones and mothers are on makeshift plywood still in 16 oz. cups over the awaiting Hempy Buckets (3 gal.) The ballasts are located under the house.

Picture 4: Close-up of watering wand on garden hose, takes about 10 minutes to water the 99 buckets.

Picture 5: DIY carbon filter (Top Down: 6" to 8" reducer, 8" inline fan with thermostat attached to side, a 90 degree 'elbow' that is straight and some aluminum screen which holds about a 2" layer of carbon.)

Picture 6: 65 qt. dehumidifier. May also have to get a portable a.c. unit come summertime.

Picture 7: Ozone Generator for primary odor control. Lamp timer allows for up to 20 on/off settings per day, by the minute. Currently running 10 minutes each hour 20 out of 24 hours.

Picture 8: Just a closer up picture of about 50 clones. There are just beginning to recover from a serious pH problem. I quickly accidified the soil trying to use straight 5.6 pH'd nutes (G.H.) in the 16 oz. cups (without raising the pH of the water to around 6.3). They are doing much better now that i have pulled my head out of my ass. 

Thanks for looking !!! I'll try to get an update shortly after putting them each in their own bucket. Which they are due for right now. I let the clones go too long without topping, so right now they are all a bunch of sticks... and I like to grow bushes! 
.


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## MEANGREEN69 (Feb 4, 2009)

nice set up..when u going to transplant??...


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## torrey420 (Feb 4, 2009)

Looks like a nice setup!


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## DaGambler (Feb 5, 2009)

thank ye, thank ye...

i just did transplant over the last few hours actually, but its past my bedtime so i'll have to update the picture tommorow night.


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## maryjane2029 (Feb 8, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> thank ye, thank ye...
> 
> i just did transplant over the last few hours actually, but its past my bedtime so i'll have to update the picture tommorow night.



Il pulling up a chair for this one. Very nicely put together man! I am liking it a lot. Wish I had the space you do. I would go nuts though!

Check out my grow getting started; Hempy, Automatic flowering, Lucas Formula, Perpetual Harvest

http://www.planetganja.com/highsociety/showthread.php?p=1167057&posted=1#post1167057


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## torrey420 (Feb 8, 2009)

Updates????


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## DaGambler (Feb 8, 2009)

Brought to you by demand 

The clones (and mothers) are starting to get a bit of lush green vegatative growth since being transplanted four days ago (roughly coinciding with finally get the pH under control again - having overyly acidified the soil in the 16 oz. cups).

Some are spurting up a bit, others still hardly any growth since transplant, so i went thru today and crushed/and bent the tips on the taller plants as well as crushing the stem in several places from middling to top. I noticed that one of my plants had a very crushed stem that basically grew together 'flat' in a 'stem ribbon'... and that vertical growth had basically stopped on that plant. So i am trying to mimic this effect to a degree.

They are filling out a bit for the most part, I topped the clones late and now i have to wait for them to bush out a bit before going 12/12. I'd guess i will be another 1 and 1/2 weeks at least before i switch.

thanks for peeping.  I tried to color correct the photos a bit, hopefully the pics will be much better after switching to flower, as i am currently loathe to turn off the lights for pictures.

(3 gal. 'car wash' buckets in 2 areas of 5 by 10 pots, with one corner pot missing.)

.


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## eza82 (Feb 8, 2009)

Nice op............


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## DaGambler (Feb 9, 2009)

thankee.

add the following to the list of needed items (almost finished using these):

(4) 5 gal. buckets of exterior paint
400 dollars worth of exterior shutters
and lotsa 'pink stuff' insulation batting (sound control) and i still need more of this

don't want my house to be the ugliest one on the block 



(EDIT) the stem crushing deffinitely seems to be working... the vertical growth seems to slow a great deal, and the spacing between nodes is significantly lessened. its like what the branches and tips are still doing their growing, but any vertical growth energy is instead spent on repair work to the damaged main stem. (multiple crush points from 1/3 toward bottom on up).


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## raiderman (Feb 10, 2009)

looks great. reminds me of my garage before i lined it,lol.lotta lite. gonna hava hell of a grow. yea, space is money , so is electricity, i see your using all your space. hell i stuffed 12 3.5 gal. buckets and 2 2.5 gal. cont. under 0ne 600. and the closet has 16 sqare perfect pots( 2 gal. cont.) ina 3x3ft area under 600 . should get near 3 pounds this time. i'm subscribed DG.


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## DaGambler (Feb 10, 2009)

raiderman said:


> looks great. reminds me of my garage before i lined it,lol.lotta lite. gonna hava hell of a grow. yea, space is money , so is electricity, i see your using all your space. hell i stuffed 12 3.5 gal. buckets and 2 2.5 gal. cont. under 0ne 600. and the closet has 16 sqare perfect pots( 2 gal. cont.) ina 3x3ft area under 600 . should get near 3 pounds this time. i'm subscribed DG.


suh-weet, i was hoping you'd stop by  Yah, the flower room space is pretty well maximized as far as the light footprint goes... bit over 1 foot gap around the outer walls and about 2 1/2 feet down the middle which is nice for walking and getting around, my last grow i was literally tip-toeing barefoot and fighting with each step to find floor to be stepping on. the veg room isn't even close to being maximized space wise, and it never will be as the room is just much bigger than i need. 

ya, ther'd be no 'fall-off' in ur 3x3 ft area, deffinitely able to use all the floor space in there. If i remember right ur running two rooms... so the 3lbs total is 1.5 per room right? with (2) 600w HPS per flower room?
.


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## growman3666 (Feb 10, 2009)

whoaa gonna be watching this one


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## BloodShot420 (Feb 10, 2009)

damn nice setup man... i'm envious of your floor space

i got 2Kw crammed into a 3 x 7 closet - apparently they cover a lot more area than that  (i know that, but i want max yield for my space, regardless of light needed)...

99 plants too... right on the edge - i love it


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## growman3666 (Feb 10, 2009)

whta are you aiming for yield??


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## raiderman (Feb 10, 2009)

probably waste deep in high toxic weed ,lol.


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## cali-high (Feb 10, 2009)

this grow looks awsome i really like it  all the green trees YUM!!!


good luck


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## DaGambler (Feb 11, 2009)

BloodShot420 said:


> damn nice setup man... i'm envious of your floor space
> 
> i got 2Kw crammed into a 3 x 7 closet - apparently they cover a lot more area than that  (i know that, but i want max yield for my space, regardless of light needed)...
> 
> 99 plants too... right on the edge - i love it


ha! ya you've deffinitely got enough light in there... i think a 5x10 with (2) 1k HPS is like 40w sq. ft. so your deffinitely above that.

man, with this economy, everybody is living on the edge.


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## DaGambler (Feb 11, 2009)

growman3666 said:


> whta are you aiming for yield??


i've gotten a bit over a 1lb per 1k in past grows... so that's all i'm shooting for here. if i can dial things in great. if hempy buckets act a bit more like hydro, great. but, i'm just shooting for 5lbs. every 3 months. clones have 2 months under the flouro's (while moms are flowering) then 30 days under the 18/6 HPS after the moms are cut and removed from the flower room. new clones are taken, then (hopefully) 60 days to flower finish. (so 90 days total in the flower room)


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## DaGambler (Feb 11, 2009)

raiderman said:


> probably waste deep in high toxic weed ,lol.


 
more like chest deep  the buckets are 10" and i like to have plants between 3 1/2 to 4 ft tall.

6 days after transplant -into- the hempy buckets (rather than just bogging them) they seem to finally have hit the rez. DEFfinitlely a faster growth rate once this happens. Though i'm anxious to flip the switch, it'll still be at least 1 or 2 weeks before i go 12/12.

last night i came home and saw all of this new growth, so i immediately went around the room and started 'laying the bitches down'. i used to do a lot of tying, but this time i am just bending and crushing the plants, training them to 90 degrees with like 15 small bends/crushes along the main stem (from the tip to close to the bottom 1/3) i want to keep a low profile as much as possible while trying to fill them in 'shoulder to shoulder'.

and i'm not using any MH in the flower room this time, so it seems like vertical growth is going to be something that i have to fight a bit.


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## DaGambler (Feb 11, 2009)

here's a couple close up of 'laying them down'... (bending and crushing in multiple places to train the plant sideways, allowing others to catch up, and encouraging side growth) so long as the top tip is no longer the highest place on the plant.

you can see how much stress i put them through from the soil going acidic in the 16 oz. cups... but they are recovering nicely.

especially on the second pic (both white russians) you can see that there is deffinitely some 'flower action'... the only thing these plants have ever seen is 24 hours of daylight. so i'm thinking that about 1/3 of these w.r.'s have an auto-flower like trait, and another 1/3 of them show what i would call "very strong pre-flowering". The intense HPS light seems to be pulling them back into a strong vegatative mode, after coming away from the flouro's, so i think that all will be well.


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## growman3666 (Feb 11, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> i've gotten a bit over a 1lb per 1k in past grows... so that's all i'm shooting for here. if i can dial things in great. if hempy buckets act a bit more like hydro, great. but, i'm just shooting for 5lbs. every 3 months. clones have 2 months under the flouro's (while moms are flowering) then 30 days under the 18/6 HPS after the moms are cut and removed from the flower room. new clones are taken, then (hopefully) 60 days to flower finish. (so 90 days total in the flower room)


thats fucken badass man


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## raiderman (Feb 11, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> ha! ya you've deffinitely got enough light in there... i think a 5x10 with (2) 1k HPS is like 40w sq. ft. so your deffinitely above that.
> 
> man, with this economy, everybody is living on the edge.


lol, yea i got 26 oz. on my 600s. do the math.trting for around three this time, may go to Maui this spring break ,lol, done maxed out the bedroom las year...specialty strains usually go a bit more to.


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## DaGambler (Feb 12, 2009)

i just gotta believe that a bad day in Maui is still better than a good day in Texas.

... this is only my second piece of glass ... so say a little prayer with me that it doesn't break in transit (dry pipe, but dang ain't she purty) spose i can always get creative with a whip attachment leading into a small bubbler bottle after the tale.

form over function this time around: (click the image and it gets sharper)


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## SpruceZeus (Feb 12, 2009)

Nice grow, i'll be watching this one!


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## raiderman (Feb 12, 2009)

ns piece of glass bro. i make note to buy a new piece every harvest.


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## DaGambler (Feb 13, 2009)

sounds like a good idea  i certainly can't afford to buy any more until i do get a harvest
.


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## 420weedman (Feb 13, 2009)

subd! ..


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## Thundercat (Feb 13, 2009)

Well man, I like the set up, I've never seen someone use just perlite for a medium, hows that working for you man? Can't wait to see what you can do with all that light man!


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## DaGambler (Feb 13, 2009)

it seems to be working out very well  (see the 'Hempy Collective' for other pure perlite growers) it seems to be a bit more like a hydro setup than a soil setup, though i'm keeping the pH'd solution around 6.3... i'll probably also have to watch for any residual buildup in the containers reservoirs, which wouldn't be a concern so much in hydro. I would guess that the rate of growth will be somewhere in between a soil grow and a aeroponics setup.

i've been waiting for you to shift away from mushrooms and go into gear on a weed grow, i see ur making some good strides on that. (Not that i wouldn't love to get into growing mushrooms someday... ur mushy grow is very inspirational.)
.


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## BAYAREAMEDICAL (Feb 13, 2009)

Sometimes ya just gotta toss the dice ... and then leave nothing to chance.


+rep for ya grow, looking great, stop by my journal.


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## Thundercat (Feb 13, 2009)

I've been tryin to get these girls goin man. Most of them are between 2-4 weeks old, and they are all looking decent. My purple powers seem to be very sensative to nutes, they keep getting just a bit of burn on the tips. I'm hoping they will grow out of this, cus I have only fed them plain water for the most part. One very light feeding, but then only water for the last week and a half, I've watered twice in that time. I'm gonna start the otehrs on nutes once my TDS meter gets here, and I'm gonna keep them on water till I see improvment I think. I gota check my tap water and make sure Im not giving them total crap water too. I've been letting it breath, but its still tap water. I may be getting a purification system if my tap is bad, or filling water at my brothers house down the street, he has a full house filtration system. Any talk to ya latta man, gotta get back to work, I'm on lunch ! TC


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## DaGambler (Feb 15, 2009)

Ya, city tap water can kill plants fast.

Update: i've noticed that about 1/3 of them have yet to even root into the perlite... and i'm still struggling with my ppm's. A few of them are as dark green as you would want them to be, a few others are a bit lime, but the top leaves have begun to go 'twisty' after i gave them a shot of 2000 ppm nutrient mixture. I hate to do it, but i may have to start just watering with a lighter nutrient mix, and then come back with some mixture in gallon containers for those that need to be hit with extra nutes. (pain in the butt)

Looks like they'll end up needing a full month under the HPS lighting to get some good root growth, they are getting bigger but still don't have anywhere near the vegetative growth that i would like to see.

I'll have some difficult choices ahead of me as far as Cloning goes... I don't think i'll have the optimal selection of plants until at least the third grow. I've got some auto-flowering white russians (about 1/3 of them turned out to be autoflowers) that i am leary of cloning... but as long as they grow in veg at a decent rate and then pack on the flowers; i don't see why i shouldn't clone them. I also have one plant (of which there are currently several cloned offspring) that never did show pre-flowers... so i'm just hoping that that bitch is a bitch. So far i'm not balls to the wall on the perlite Hempy grow, but i've given them lots of pH problems to deal with as well. I beleive that Lumberjack Ian called Hempy growing 'twirky'. And i would have to agree, especially if he meant that you have to be vigilant about what ppm you are offering them every time that you water. While i'm on the subject, props to the original Hempy dude and also to Azgrow who popularized the method here on RIU.


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## raiderman (Feb 15, 2009)

its not even hardly suitable for drinking here DG. wats up bro. yea its all about the water source. all falls from there. even ph tap water still suks. believe me i've done the comprrison before. 60% difference in yield and resin.at least with this water.


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## DaGambler (Feb 15, 2009)

ha ha. ya, when i take a shower i feel 'slippery' from the water being 8.9 pH (and 500 ppm). i'd be unable to even grow w/o a RO filtration system.

Update: I can attest that anyone with FUNGUS GNATS would be well served (during vegetative growth) to do the following: add 1/2 teaspoon of '50/50 Malathion' per gallon of water to your reservoir or water supply and make sure that you are doing a "drench" watering such that all of your media (including the bottoms of the containers) gets wet. Malathion kills both the gnat and its larvae DEAD. Havn't seen a single gnat in a couple weeks now. I just added it to my reservoir one time. In a soil grow you'll only need one drench treatment, but if you miss some media, then you may need to hit them again a few days later. I don't know what the break down of Malathion is ... so be leary of doing this anywhere close to harvest.


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## BAYAREAMEDICAL (Feb 17, 2009)

dagambler said:


> ha ha. Ya, when i take a shower i feel 'slippery' from the water being 8.9 ph (and 500 ppm). I'd be unable to even grow w/o a ro filtration system.
> 
> Update: I can attest that anyone with fungus gnats would be well served (during vegetative growth) to do the following: Add 1/2 teaspoon of '50/50 malathion' per gallon of water to your reservoir or water supply and make sure that you are doing a "drench" watering such that all of your media (including the bottoms of the containers) gets wet. Malathion kills both the gnat and its larvae dead. Havn't seen a single gnat in a couple weeks now. I just added it to my reservoir one time. In a soil grow you'll only need one drench treatment, but if you miss some media, then you may need to hit them again a few days later. I don't know what the break down of malathion is ... So be leary of doing this anywhere close to harvest.


 
my ph of tap water is 8.0 and 300 ppm
city shitty water hahaha..


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## Thundercat (Feb 18, 2009)

Well I got my meter on friday before I went out of town. I found out that my tap water wast at 400ppm!!! So I'm hoping that that is the problem with the burn, all that nasty other shit has prolly been building up in my soil. I switched to distilled water last night for a flush. I'm gonna be trying to get a RO system, or filtratoin system of some sort, cus other wise I have to haul water across town from my brothers house. When I flushed it was with just the distilled water at a ph of 6.4. When I tested the run off(of all the plants collectively, I'll do individuals with the next flush) it showed a ph of 6.7 and was at 1000ppm! So I'm gonna flush once more this week with distilled water at a ph of 6.0 to try to lower the run off ppm alot, and lower the ph down to the 6.3-6.4 range. I'm also getting a 400w mh either today or tomorrow, so this should boost growth, and help them cope. I'm hoping to get them on a nute regiman by next week, I just don't want to over do it now. They are turning into some nice little platns though, I'm gonna post pics on my thread later today.


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## Thundercat (Feb 18, 2009)

Lol, forgot reason I started that post. So gambler I'm feelin you on the going slower then planned, and the nute issues man. Shit is driving me nuts. This is one reason I really want to try out hydro, seems like it will be alot easier to control!


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## BloodShot420 (Feb 18, 2009)

thats crazy... not all city water is bad.

i get water at ph 7.8 and TDS of about 68 - apparently i am blessed


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## Thundercat (Feb 18, 2009)

my last grow I used tap water, and had no problems at all with burn or any thing.


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## silverhaze20 (Feb 18, 2009)

Your only shooting for 5 lbs? thats almost hard to believe, do like to pick early? I noticed that achieving 14 oz was capable in 5 gallon buckets. Your only at 3 gallons so its ok to say you would get atleast half that being around 7 oz a plant. With your hopes, your only hoping to get about 3/4 of an ounce..... please explain?


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## silverhaze20 (Feb 18, 2009)

unless i calulated wrong, you should be pullin almost 50 pounds off this grow.... im really confused


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## BloodShot420 (Feb 18, 2009)

i would say 5 lbs is a good target for 4KW... its a good minimum, dont want to be too optimistic...


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## raiderman (Feb 18, 2009)

i remember wen i got some purple lightening seeds from marc emery and it was my first grow in 2000 and i had beginners error by hoping to get haf pound under a 400 in 2 gal. pots.,lol.truth was it was less than one ounce per plant,lol.burned up haf of them using miracle grow fert. at ungodly levels,lol.by the time i was finished you could see they were begging for mercy to put a end to it all,lol.but i am hoping for around 3 pounds under these 2-600s, 31 plants , maybe better


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## silverhaze20 (Feb 18, 2009)

Yea that sounds more like wat I thought.I plan on doing 10 plants hempy and lst under 1 1000 watter on a mover,long flowering and I'm hopin for 5 pounds atleast or ill be dissappointed


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## raiderman (Feb 18, 2009)

silverhaze20 said:


> Yea that sounds more like wat I thought.I plan on doing 10 plants hempy and lst under 1 1000 watter on a mover,long flowering and I'm hopin for 5 pounds atleast or ill be dissappointed


if i had more room in the garage i'd def. use a mover.


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## DaGambler (Feb 19, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> ....it showed a ph of 6.7 and was at 1000ppm! So I'm gonna flush once more this week with distilled water at a ph of 6.0 to try to lower the run off ppm alot, and lower the ph down to the 6.3-6.4 range.


ur plants still look real good bro, so it looks like you caught it in time. i don't know what all was in that 1000 ppm, but it was probably just a bunch of shite ur plants had no use for. RO is the way to go. 175 bucks will hook u up with great water for a long time. Filters have a very short life, but if ur not running a lot of plants, you might just get by with filters. In the long run, they will cost you more than just getting a RO system though. (Online find 100 gallon per day... for much less than what you would find a 25 gpd at Lowe's or Home Depot)


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## anthony6216 (Feb 19, 2009)

Nice looking room bro looks very clean I like that nice man
peace and1love


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## DaGambler (Feb 19, 2009)

silverhaze20 said:


> Yea that sounds more like wat I thought.I plan on doing 10 plants hempy and lst under 1 1000 watter on a mover,long flowering and I'm hopin for 5 pounds atleast or ill be dissappointed


'fraid ur looking to be dissapointed. 1k on a light mover... no matter how long you veg them, or how well you scrog them, you'd still probably have a difficult time hitting 3 lbs. And that isn't practical when you can harvest less... but more times per year for a greater overall yield. 2 lbs. per 1000w light is considered 'Pro'. It means that you have your conditions dialed in and are likely using supplemental CO2. Even in the SeeMoreBuds videos on one grow he only pulled 2lbs. per 1k (4.5 lbs with 2400w). And on his best grow he pulled a bit over 3lbs. per 1k (6 lbs. with 2400w) using 300 clones - 100 of which died by being crowded out. He also utilized intense SOG with enough plants to land you in the Fed Pen for a very long time. (Especially when you factor in how many clones he must of had going simultaneously.) If ur fairly new to growing ... 1lb per 1000w HPS is far more realistic (especially w/o supplemental CO2.)


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## DaGambler (Feb 19, 2009)

UPDATE: I'll get some pics up this weekend. This weeked i will be pulling the clones for the next batch, so you'll be able to see how i clone. Then i will be going 36 hours of darkness followed by 12/12. Almost all of the plants have finally "Greened Up" with more robust vegetative growth. I attribute this to finally hitting the reservoir, as i havn't watered them in 3 days now. I think i may have been pampering them too much... some of them had no reason to seek out the rez when I was keeping the initial 16 oz. of media thoroughly moist by watering it everyday. At least half of them are 'shoulder to shoulder' at this point as well. They currently stand at between 14" and 19" inches tall. And, following the advice of fellow growers, I have decided that further veg growth may not significantly impact the final harvest weight. 

I am Oh So Ready to see some Trichome Production !!!


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## raiderman (Feb 19, 2009)

its all about the water source . wat does your filtered water ph at .?may get 5pounds outside with tha t few plants.


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## Thundercat (Feb 19, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> ur plants still look real good bro, so it looks like you caught it in time. i don't know what all was in that 1000 ppm, but it was probably just a bunch of shite ur plants had no use for. RO is the way to go. 175 bucks will hook u up with great water for a long time. Filters have a very short life, but if ur not running a lot of plants, you might just get by with filters. In the long run, they will cost you more than just getting a RO system though. (Online find 100 gallon per day... for much less than what you would find a 25 gpd at Lowe's or Home Depot)


Thanks man, I'm pretty happy with them. They seem to love the MH, and havn't been burning any more that I've noticed. So ya I think I might have got it. Maybe sunday I'll be able to take my first set of clones. I have to start flowering by april 1st, and I'm hoping this is gonna give me enough time to get how much I want. We'll see!!


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## DaGambler (Feb 19, 2009)

raiderman said:


> its all about the water source . wat does your filtered water ph at .?may get 5pounds outside with tha t few plants.


my filtered RO water may still pH check-in at 8.5 or so... but that is fairly meaningless when the ppm are between 0 and 15. As soon as it hit a media with a slightly lower pH, that would be its new pH. Or as soon as you added a single drop of 5.6 General Hydroponic nutrients, the pH of the gallon would jump to 5.6


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## DaGambler (Feb 21, 2009)

PICTURE UPDATE:

Pic 1: 16 oz. styrofoam cups filled with M.G. Seed Starting Potting Soil. Moisten the media before you put it in the cups (or you'll have to dump it back out again like i did 

Pic 2: Shows the donors ("moms") have done pretty well to fill in side to side. The White Russians have a very nice leaning toward the indica side, they are Ak-47xWhiteWidow hybrid

Pic 3: Not all have filled in side to side, mostly its the G13xHashPlants that havn't as they are the most indica in phenotype (they are a indica x indica cross).

Pic 4: Shows the planted clones with 9 oz. clear plastic cups being used as Humidity Domes (top rims cut off). The Farmer Dude is looking at the one missing a dome. The colored beads are used one for each strain, with either a black or white zip-tie to denote a difference in the strain phenotypes.

Pic 5: View from the helicopter with the lights up.

Pic 6: Helicopter view of the lights lowered.

Pic 7: They are all now proud mothers. Since i have yet to see any of them truly flower (i have only used pre-flowering to determine sex) - all of them were cloned. And then i took extra clones of my favorites. With the strain choices already made, I will have to base further clone choices off whatever plants turn out to be the most heavy yielders.

Now i need to eat more munchy food.


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## DaGambler (Feb 21, 2009)

and, oh ya, the older ladies are going into 36 hours of darkness tommorow, followed by 12/12. Hallelujah. I just did some light lollipopping... took off 4 or more of the bottom branches. Got G.H. Flora Nova en route (2 1/2 gallons each Grow and Bloom). Using H2O2 every time i water or in the reservoir every 4 days or so (80 ml per 40 gal. rez), havn't had any sign of green algae yet. No sign of any pests, im'a pick up so diatamaceous earth tommorow anyways and spread it all over the outer walls in the flower room and the entire floor in the clone/veg. room.

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## 420weedman (Feb 22, 2009)

damn thats alot of clones


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## Thundercat (Feb 22, 2009)

Those kids are looking great man. I wish I could have taken half that many clones. I'm still waiting on my first set. Its only been since January, but still I'm getting impatient. Soon though, they are making great progress.


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## DaGambler (Feb 22, 2009)

420weedman said:


> damn thats alot of clones


heh heh. i try to take 50 percent more than i need. and my cloning rate has never been that bad. I am contemplating running a couple plants in each bucket, not next go, but the one after ... and flowering them when they are only 8-12 inches tall rather than waiting until they are 14-19 inches tall as i did this time.

Here's what the donors / "moms" look like after the light Lollipopping, bottom 4 branches or so: (Pics 1 & 2) Spread some diatamaceous earth around the perimeter... and they are now taking their first dirt nap - and dreaming of making me some big buds. Had a migraine... so i had to settle for 24 hours of darkness, which will be followed by 12/12 from here on out.

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## DaGambler (Feb 23, 2009)

Adding to Equipment List: (within the next few days)

- sulphur burner
- another 65 qt. dehumidifier (one don't cut it)
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## DaGambler (Feb 24, 2009)

Apparently SLEEP does a body good. They've grown more through the last 24 hours of darkness than Ever they did when the lights were on. I know some of this is associated to "the stretch" of going into flower, but i'm also talking about pure vegetative mass / leaves. I have heard that root development becomes a greater focus to the plant during the dark period, so perhaps this accounts for some of the new vigor. Many of the leaves fattened way up and took on a nice phenotype specific appearance of being well-outlined or jagged, etc. For the first time ever, some of the plants finally 'perked out and up' such that a greater portion of the leaves were stretched taut to capture all of the ('suns') light rays. Previously many of them just kinda looked hang dog. May be that the root system is having a easier time supporting what growth remains after the light Lollipopping as well.

All in all, they have never looked better. About three of the auto-flowering White Russians pretty well just stalled all-together on vegetative growth - so hopefully these guys will now take off in flower production now that their flowering hormones will be allowed to rise each night during the 12/12.

In the future, i may attempt to veg. under 18/6 (rather than 24/0) to see more of this type of vigor. I had been avoiding it because 1/3 of the W.R.'s turned auto-flower on me.
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## BAYAREAMEDICAL (Feb 24, 2009)

dagambler said:


> adding to equipment list: (within the next few days)
> 
> - sulphur burner
> - another 65 qt. Dehumidifier (one don't cut it)
> .


 
i just added another 70 pint dehumidifer..

Looks good...


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## shnkrmn (Feb 24, 2009)

Jeez. gambler, you don't fuck around. I'm amazed you say you can water your plants in ten minutes. I water ten plants in about an hour, of course I play music and make sweet love to em.


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## Thundercat (Feb 24, 2009)

Sounds real good gambler. Thats sweet they jumped off like that. I'm glad to say mine have done the same thing in the last 24 hours. They seem to really be happy with the nutes, and have been finally growing the way I want. Tomorrow they will be going into my tent under all 1400w of light I have.


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## crzywhboy6669 (Feb 24, 2009)

very nice setup gambler. how much did it cost you for the whole setup? how long till first harvest?
subscribed +rep


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## DaGambler (Feb 25, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> Jeez. gambler, you don't fuck around. I'm amazed you say you can water your plants in ten minutes. I water ten plants in about an hour, of course I play music and make sweet love to em.


ha, ha. no sweet love making over here. I do wish them well and try to encourage them to be all they can be 

but ya, i either count to 5 or 7 or 10 seconds for each plant while watering with the wand / pump from the rez. depending on if its a light or heavy watering... 10 sec. is about 1/4 of a gallon. (though the buckets can actually hold twice this much water)
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## DaGambler (Feb 25, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> Sounds real good gambler. Thats sweet they jumped off like that. I'm glad to say mine have done the same thing in the last 24 hours. They seem to really be happy with the nutes, and have been finally growing the way I want. Tomorrow they will be going into my tent under all 1400w of light I have.


you can do a lot with 1400 watts... i had a 1000w HPS and a 400w MH on a sun circle (circular) light mover back in the day and grew 36 'monsters' in a 7' by 7' area... about an oz. a plant - soil grow.
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## DaGambler (Feb 25, 2009)

crzywhboy6669 said:


> very nice setup gambler. how much did it cost you for the whole setup? how long till first harvest?
> subscribed +rep


first harvest is about 60 days away. just went to 12/12. I'm looking into a 73 day turnover... i'd like to see 5 harvests a year rather than 4... and get my clone picks down such that i can yield 6 lbs. per crop rather than 5. i've got some tweaking ahead of me.

as far as cost goes... the equipment list is pretty specific... but the rule of thumb seems to be that the first harvest generally pays the equipment costs twice over. as long as you aren't investing in LED's or some other high tech high price contraption. I've saved money when possible by making purchases online and shopping around. I'm also not afraid to 'buy generic' as far as fans and light systems, etc. As long as it's new equipment. the bare bones of the system i am running would be a bit over 2k... but i'm sure i have well over 4k into it once you start adding up all the little stuff.

to be honest bro, this isn't a long term investment for me. I'm hoping to 'hit it and quit it'. Maybe run for like one year and then put the profit into a legal business enterprise. Fingers way way crossed. I'd rather just be smokin' some shite i bought from someone else and only have to worry about going on probation if busted with some personal amount... but times are hard, brotha.
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## Thundercat (Feb 25, 2009)

I was thinking yesterday itwould be sweet to get a circular lightmover, but its not gonna happen right now. So I'll just have to move them around so they all get both kinds of light. I think they are gonna turn into some really nice bushs over the next month.


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## DaGambler (Feb 26, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> I was thinking yesterday itwould be sweet to get a circular lightmover, but its not gonna happen right now. So I'll just have to move them around so they all get both kinds of light. I think they are gonna turn into some really nice bushs over the next month.


if they're in the same tent you probably won't even have to move them. plants sure do like MH during veg. growth.... i missing have some in the flower room.
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## DaGambler (Feb 26, 2009)

allright, so this Dirty South heatwave has caught me by surprise... and i am now scrambling to remedy the situation. My rooms are "winter-ized" but deffinitely not "summer-ized", so i'ma have to add a couple of portable a.c. units to the equipment list.

- 13,000 BTU portable a.c. unit (flower room)
- 8,000 BTU portable a.c. unit (clone room)
- 8" inline fan from Home Depot "500 cfm" (w/no obstructions)
for the ceiling in the clone room

right now my clones are toughing it out through some 85-88 degree crapola. hopefully they'll do alright through one more day... then the weather is suppose to cool down again... and hopefully at least one of these portable a.c. units will arrive before the damn sun decides to come on full force in the future. (The flower room is also at 85 degrees, but that doesn't bother me near as much right now.)
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## torrey420 (Feb 26, 2009)

I hear that! I'm on a 2-3 year plan myself, sometimes you have to get creative when starting a new business


DaGambler said:


> first harvest is about 60 days away. just went to 12/12. I'm looking into a 73 day turnover... i'd like to see 5 harvests a year rather than 4... and get my clone picks down such that i can yield 6 lbs. per crop rather than 5. i've got some tweaking ahead of me.
> 
> as far as cost goes... the equipment list is pretty specific... but the rule of thumb seems to be that the first harvest generally pays the equipment costs twice over. as long as you aren't investing in LED's or some other high tech high price contraption. I've saved money when possible by making purchases online and shopping around. I'm also not afraid to 'buy generic' as far as fans and light systems, etc. As long as it's new equipment. the bare bones of the system i am running would be a bit over 2k... but i'm sure i have well over 4k into it once you start adding up all the little stuff.
> 
> ...


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## DaGambler (Feb 27, 2009)

Ug. One of the four ballasts just took a dump on me. And these are the AgroStar ballasts after being 'upgraded' from the GrowBright(s). Prolly woulda been better off not upgraded. Oh well, HTG stands by their lighting equipment for a full 2 years. So they've got replacement parts coming for me... and i've also ordered a back up ballast. If the replacement parts don't work then i'll have to send it in to get it fixed.

It could've happened at a worse time (like further into flowering) but i'ma have to alternate one of the lights off each day until i'm back up to four lights. All the areas will probably miss at least one day of light... and unless i slip on another banana peel, no more than two days at most. shit happens.



(EDIT) figuring some light is better than none, i've just re-arranged the plants around the 3 working lights... with a bit of a stadium setup as needed. some days... are more stressfull than others...
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## Thundercat (Feb 27, 2009)

Atleast your getting it figured out man!


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## shnkrmn (Feb 27, 2009)

I had the same deal. One of my HTG digital ballasts fried last night and took the bulb with it. I talked to them this morning and took care of it (and ordered another whole rig which really sweetened the deal for them (and me; they gave me a great price). 



DaGambler said:


> Ug. One of the four ballasts just took a dump on me. And these are the AgroStar ballasts after being 'upgraded' from the GrowBright(s). Prolly woulda been better off not upgraded. Oh well, HTG stands by their lighting equipment for a full 2 years. So they've got replacement parts coming for me... and i've also ordered a back up ballast. If the replacement parts don't work then i'll have to send it in to get it fixed.
> 
> It could've happened at a worse time (like further into flowering) but i'ma have to alternate one of the lights off each day until i'm back up to four lights. All the areas will probably miss at least one day of light... and unless i slip on another banana peel, no more than two days at most. shit happens.
> 
> ...


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## DaGambler (Feb 27, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> I had the same deal. One of my HTG digital ballasts fried last night and took the bulb with it. I talked to them this morning and took care of it (and ordered another whole rig which really sweetened the deal for them (and me; they gave me a great price).


ya, i wouldn't go anywhere else for lighting equipment. now as far as everything else is concerned ... i Would go just about anywhere else. i had been thinking about getting a back-up ballast anyways - i already have a back up cord set, timer, surge protector, and bulb... so i'll feel better once that gets here.
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## DaGambler (Feb 28, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> Atleast your getting it figured out man!


nescesity is the mother of invention
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## DaGambler (Feb 28, 2009)

Pic 1: the clones 6 days after being taken. most of them i havn't touched. i don't bother to take off the dome or to mist them so long as the dome has good humidity. I did add a bit more water to one set of 40 of them. And i trimmed a yellow leaf here and there off about 20 of them. Tommorow i will give all of them a bit more water. And will water in the flower room as well, which is on day 5.

Pic 2: without domes. they are still viable enough. they have seen temperature extreme from 90 to 66 degrees. the 90 almost claimed a couple of them. they recovered. i have only lost one so far... i saw that a bit of white strand mold was growing on one of them so i got rid of it. was one of the auto-flowers, some of which veg. well enough to go perpetual, others which stalled in veg. growth and probably won't.

Pic 3: a quick DIY room exhaust... to lower the temps from 88 to around 80. "500 cfm" Home Depot fan with 8" flange and a thermostat controller to shut it down at 70 degrees. just getting around to ordering the portable a.c. for this room, so i had to do something until it arrives.

Pic 4: the 44 gal. rez and the RO system. 330hp submersible pump feeds a garden hose that runs into the flower room. I add a ounce or so of H2O2 every 4 days or so. The nutrient solution seems to do fine even after sitting for awhile.
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## DaGambler (Feb 28, 2009)

Pic: day 7 for the clones, day 6 for the mothers. most of these got their first breath of fresh air today and their first drink of water. I also misted them a bit before putting the domes back on (RO water and a few drops of H2O2) and cut off a few yellow leaf tips or leaves.

still only have the one missing, but i'm not real hopeful for about 3 of the auto-flowers. They stalled in growth even before the clones were taken... and if they're done growing under HPS then flourescents aren't going to do much for them either.

I also blew gently on them while fitting the domes back into place in order to 'trap more CO2 in there'  I'll likely not touch them again until the domes are going to come off for good around day 11 to day 14. I also like this way because there is no trasplanting until they are ready to go into the Hempy buckets in the flower room.

the temperature in there right now is 75 degrees.
i also lowered the lights as close as i could to the tops of the domes today.
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## DaGambler (Feb 28, 2009)

I will hereby punctuate the Grow Journal with a bit of entertainment for those with too much time on their hands... I call this:



"World Within - Looking Within"

The annals of history suggest that sometime in September of 1608 a new toy was put up for sale at the annual Frankfurt fair. This curious tube-like device enabled a person to see things much further away than a person could see with the naked eye and could be rearranged in order to view very small things as well, in the manner of a microscope. "For the first time in human history the observable universe suddenly expanded, not just once or twice but a hundredfold. It made visible new realms in outer space and inside ourselves ..." (Worlds Within Worlds, 1977) You cant believe everything that you read, however, and history is always being rewritten.
Not long ago I had an unusually severe migraine headache that lasted for three days. I could not eat or keep down water. I spent many hours with my head resting in my hands. When I began to recover I came across a few interesting new ways of looking at the world. One of these knacks seems fairly benign and user-friendly, testing its validity will be simple enough.
Ten to fifteen years ago the latest rage at lava lamp stores was a new type of fandangled poster. Persons would stand in front of these posters for five minutes or even longer in an attempt to pick out the 3D image superimposed over the original photograph. Though a person couldnt always be successful, when you finally did arrive at the superimposed image there was an "Aha!" moment - and no doubt as to the content that had remained elusive for so long. Very few persons do not trust their own eyes. For this reason, I tend to believe that our beliefs choose us more often than we choose our beliefs. I would like to give you a free poster. And if youre doing it right, it wont take five minutes to see whats hidden inside.
Sit at a table in a brightly lit room, florescent lighting may be more helpful than sunlight. Slump down a bit with your elbows on the table, such that you can comfortably rest with your face in the palm of your hands. Cup one hand over the other, close your eyes and rest your index fingers against your lower forehead. Face the light with your eyes closed and be mindful of keeping your pupils facing straight ahead, then gently place the back of a thumbnail over each pupil. Apply slight pressure to the pupil that you will try to "see out of". Keeping your eyes closed, begin looking for any bit of movement or color that you can see. Dont go poking your eyes out, but if you arent having much luck, then try adjusting the amount of pressure slightly. If youve accomplished nothing after 30-60 seconds of this, then try "seeing" with the other eye (being mindful that the pupils face the thumb nail and havent rolled back into your head). The first sign of success may appear to be small pricks of color evenly spaced. Attempt to zoom in or focus on these. When you see any sort of movement or color the task is to see more deeply. Once you have something in view do not be surprised to find that the light illuminating it seems to shift from yellow to green to blue in a sort of wave that draws into your point of focus. When this isnt happening, things will generally appear in their natural colors; clear, pink, red and darker pigments. It may be that the thumbnail forces the iris into a concave curvature such that the eye becomes a natural microscope.
"Most startling to those who think of themselves as unique individuals is the view scientific photography gives us of ourselves. A microworld exists inside us. Indeed, it -is- us. (...) Within this privileged environment millions of organisms live, reproduce and die. Like their prototypes in (the sea), they develeop hierarchies of mutual aid, mark their territories and repel invaders. They go about cleaning our lungs, filtering our blood supply and fighting our diseases without our ever being aware of them." (Worlds Within Worlds, 1977)
So... Ive got my eyes closed and Im looking at this small, apparently single celled, organism. It looks kind of like a translucent flea with a couple dark spots: one in the body and another one in what appears to be its head. It also has a couple of appendages, perhaps cilia or flagella, though they appear to be of a harder make and possibly even segmented. It is surrounded by red blood cells. I can see maybe five clearly to each side of it, after that my vision begins to blur. What is most apparent to me is that this little guy obviously has a mind of its own. It is clearly moving around of its own volition, at a speed and direction of its own choosing. It bumps into the red blood cells and jostles them around. Then I find myself thinking, "Is this the Good Guy or the Bad Guy? Maybe I shouldnt be cheering him on!" You might come across macrophages gobbling up garbage, blood cells, the river that carries these cells along, the currents in the river itself, and tissues. One hundred and one different organisms, structures, and interactions. A vast colony of self-sentient life, such that it may boggle your mind to believe that these cells are working together (harmoniously for the most part) inside of you. I cannot say for certain exactly what is within view of this living microscopic vision. I can only imagine that the view is within some part of the eyeball itself. I would guess that a person using this technique may achieve magnification from 10x to 1000x. Are you ready for the "lava lamp store" crazy poster challenge?
Wether or not you are successful, please do not attempt to do this more than three times in a two week period of time. It places a great strain on the eyes and the slight pressure from the thumbnail may certainly cause bruising to an organ as sensitive as the eye must be. And so, while it may not be a good hobby or pastime, those that are successful will find the view amazing none-the-less. I can only imagine the effect that this has had on the psyche of mankind across the ages. Certainly others have experienced this phenomena accidently or perhaps when coming awake from dreams. Curiously, the artist Dali chose to sleep in a room intensely lit and referred to his works of art as hand-painted dream photographs. He said that the lights were used to better illuminate his dreams and to make them more intense. Perhaps someone will paint what this new organic microscope has revealed to them. Im afraid that I am not much of an artist.


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## Thundercat (Feb 28, 2009)

Sounds pretty interesting, I'll try it tomorrow in my growroom.


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## raiderman (Feb 28, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> Sounds pretty interesting, I'll try it tomorrow in my growroom.


 i bot a moisture tester,rapitest. wats the good number to water?


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## mike.lawry420 (Feb 28, 2009)

scribed...i gotta see this shit frm start 2 finish!!!


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## DaGambler (Mar 1, 2009)

raiderman said:


> i bot a moisture tester,rapitest. wats the good number to water?


i would say fluctuations between (drying to) 1 and (wetting to) 9 would be good.
i would keep clones between 5 and 9.
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## raiderman (Mar 1, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> i would say fluctuations between (drying to) 1 and (wetting to) 9 would be good.
> i would keep clones between 5 and 9.
> .


 this is the 10.00 one which goes 1-4.


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## DaGambler (Mar 1, 2009)

Balls. One of the two 'mothers' G13xHashPlant never did show pre-flowers. And its a Boy. So i just lost 18 of those along with 18 clones (all those in the picture).

Plus i misidentified one of the White Russians during preflowering ... and cloned a few of those as well. So far i have found 3 of those... and i may have a couple more. This takes me down to around 78 containers in the flower room... which i knew might happen. But the bummer is that i now have a small number of some White Russians cloned that will turn out Male in the next crop.

The third crop will be fully determined as i won't take any clones (off these clones) except from deffinite females. The current clone crop is still sufficient to fill the flower room the next go-round.

Lesson: try not to rely on pre-flowers... i misidentified one of the original 27 plants. And one of the 27 never showed pre-flowers at all.
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## DaGambler (Mar 1, 2009)

raiderman said:


> this is the 10.00 one which goes 1-4.


same deal. Just try not to let it fall to less than 1/10th (dry) and try not to water over 9/10ths (wet) while keeping clones from the midpoint up to the 9/10ths mark.


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## growman3666 (Mar 1, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> i would say fluctuations between (drying to) 1 and (wetting to) 9 would be good.
> i would keep clones between 5 and 9.
> .


i have the rapitest pH meter and it pisses me off


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## raiderman (Mar 2, 2009)

growman3666 said:


> i have the rapitest pH meter and it pisses me off[/... i got it figured out now. i been watering the WR to often , thats wy i noticed a stall. funny they dont always droop leaves either wen OW. say bro the bes way to do the clones is do a few plants from seed, grow to the 5th set of leaves, at that point start 12-12 ,in a week to 10 days wen sex is det. get clones , they will all root , and jus take 4-7 days to go bak to reg. veg wen that young under 24 hr lite puts them bak on trak, thats how i get my clones. i cant waste time , because it cost money and patience,lol.Eds Rosenthals indoor grow books are full of hep you wont get nowhere else. i read 2 of them twice before i even bought a lite in2000.the g13hp in with the WR garden are preflowered clones ,the bes lookin ones so far,4 small trees , thier gonna be loaded, lol.


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## growman3666 (Mar 2, 2009)

raiderman said:


> growman3666 said:
> 
> 
> > i have the rapitest pH meter and it pisses me off[/... i got it figured out now. i been watering the WR to often , thats wy i noticed a stall. funny they dont always droop leaves either wen OW. say bro the bes way to do the clones is do a few plants from seed, grow to the 5th set of leaves, at that point start 12-12 ,in a week to 10 days wen sex is det. get clones , they will all root , and jus take 4-7 days to go bak to reg. veg wen that young under 24 hr lite puts them bak on trak, thats how i get my clones. i cant waste time , because it cost money and patience,lol.Eds Rosenthals indoor grow books are full of hep you wont get nowhere else. i read 2 of them twice before i even bought a lite in2000.the g13hp in with the WR garden are preflowered clones ,the bes lookin ones so far,4 small trees , thier gonna be loaded, lol.
> ...


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## DaGambler (Mar 2, 2009)

raiderman said:


> i got it figured out now. i been watering the WR to often , thats wy i noticed a stall. funny they dont always droop leaves either wen OW. say bro the bes way to do the clones is do a few plants from seed, grow to the 5th set of leaves, at that point start 12-12 ,in a week to 10 days wen sex is det. get clones , they will all root , and jus take 4-7 days to go bak to reg. veg wen that young under 24 hr lite puts them bak on trak, thats how i get my clones. i cant waste time , because it cost money and patience,lol.Eds Rosenthals indoor grow books are full of hep you wont get nowhere else. i read 2 of them twice before i even bought a lite in2000.the g13hp in with the WR garden are preflowered clones ,the bes lookin ones so far,4 small trees , thier gonna be loaded, lol.


ya, i prolly shoulda flowerd them out. i thought i had all of them properly sexed by preflowers except just the one G13xHP. But i mistook one of the WR's. ah well, as said before, it'll be about the third crop till i've got my clone selection all the way down. but the second will be better than the first. and the third should kick the most ass, yeild-wise.

but i'm also going to start flowering them when they are much smaller as well (like 10"-12"). some of them were also overtopped. Next go round i'll only be topping them once. Depending on how that goes, i may even just go to growing single colas.

the sativas will likely fall by the wayside as well, especially if they delay harvest. (Power Skunk, Durban Poison... maybe even the White Widow, but deffinitely gonna let the Power Skunk go completely by the third set.) Focus on the Mr. Nice (G13xHP) and the White Russian. I kept a Mr. Nice male... so maybe at some point i'll even breed some "Mr. Nice Russian's" 
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## torrey420 (Mar 2, 2009)

I would let the Power Skunk go right now! Horrible genetics and looks like it would take about 12-14 weeks to harvest!


DaGambler said:


> ya, i prolly shoulda flowerd them out. i thought i had all of them properly sexed by preflowers except just the one G13xHP. But i mistook one of the WR's. ah well, as said before, it'll be about the third crop till i've got my clone selection all the way down. but the second will be better than the first. and the third should kick the most ass, yeild-wise.
> 
> but i'm also going to start flowering them when they are much smaller as well (like 10"-12"). some of them were also overtopped. Next go round i'll only be topping them once. Depending on how that goes, i may even just go to growing single colas.
> 
> ...


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## Thundercat (Mar 2, 2009)

Sucks with the males, especially with such nice looking plants! I had wanted to take clones, and sex them before I flowered my mothers, but I was running short on time, so I'm mostly just growing the mothers. I have taken 2 clones off my biggest purple power, and I'll be taking some off some of the other plants, but its mostly to learn how to clone right. A buddy wants a couple clones, so I'll hook him up, and I'm gonna have to take some clones once they do sex to keep for mothers for my next crop. Hopfully sticking the clones back into veg won't bother them too much. I read about people doing it all the time though so it should work. 

Sounds like your getting all the bugs worked out though man. The plants sure look healthy. I've got the power skunk going too, so make sure you hook up a smoke report, I'm interested to see how it turns out.


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## Thundercat (Mar 2, 2009)

torrey420 said:


> I would let the Power Skunk go right now! Horrible genetics and looks like it would take about 12-14 weeks to harvest!



So I'm just curious if you've ever grown the power skunk, and are speaking from experiance? Or are you just saying its bad genetics because they give them away free?


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## raiderman (Mar 2, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> So I'm just curious if you've ever grown the power skunk, and are speaking from experiance? Or are you just saying its bad genetics because they give them away free?


lol,here in this dry hole i can get up to 50.00 for each clone,lol.everyone including mysef will bow down that the g13hp the most lethal so far.


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## DaGambler (Mar 3, 2009)

I know you've grown White Russians (White Widow x AK47) as well Raiderman, so i'm kinda surprised that the Mr. Nice (G13 x Hash Plant) is such an easy pick for first place. They have similar claims as far as THC percent goes.

Makes me really wonder how it compares to the G13 x Haze as well... some folks that have tried both G13 hybrids have suggested that the Haze is the clear victor of those two.
.


UPDATE: Day 9, the clone domes come off... i'll be misting them about 4 times a day for the next 2 or 3 days with a very light GH nutrient solution.


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## DaGambler (Mar 3, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> So I'm just curious if you've ever grown the power skunk, and are speaking from experiance? Or are you just saying its bad genetics because they give them away free?


I'm curious as well what is meant exactly.... 

my biggest problem with them is that they are the most sativa dominant phenotype that i have (where's the 'skunk' part?) Even my Durban Poison has much wider leaf blades and more compact growth and its Pure Sativa. Also the stems are thin... its just difficult for me to imagine that they are going to produce much bud. And i may not even finish them if it takes longer than like 9 weeks to do so... Well, i'm sure i'll finish them, but it'll be after transplanting them, cuz i'ma need all them buckets for the next crop... so they may have to finish in garbage bags or something ... around the perimeter of the garden.
.


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## raiderman (Mar 3, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> I know you've grown White Russians (White Widow x AK47) as well Raiderman, so i'm kinda surprised that the Mr. Nice (G13 x Hash Plant) is such an easy pick for first place. They have similar claims as far as THC percent goes.
> 
> Makes me really wonder how it compares to the G13 x Haze as well... some folks that have tried both G13 hybrids have suggested that the Haze is the clear victor of those two.
> .
> ...


 i never grew wite russian.thats wy i'm chekin it out. i sold all my clones and am doing 30 BB plants nex.The ppls choice award ,lol.because of the purps i get out of it. jus a small tad behind the g13hp. but heavier buds on the BM and BB by far wen branched.and sugar daddy last 10 days including extra week fini. WR are lookin good .thier bak on trak .fukin moisture , not reliable.how far do you stik the probe in .maybe its hittig some roots and getting a false reading,huh.


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## torrey420 (Mar 3, 2009)

I grew 3 females out of the 5 freebies and didn't have the time to let them finsish, at 9 weeks they were just huge plants with tiny airy buds that were super disapointing, I just chopped em down with the rest of the harvest, difference being they went straight in the trash, not even worth keeping for hash, since there was no real thrichrome build up to speak of. Thats why I say you should throw them out, save yourself the dissapointment!


DaGambler said:


> I'm curious as well what is meant exactly....
> 
> my biggest problem with them is that they are the most sativa dominant phenotype that i have (where's the 'skunk' part?) Even my Durban Poison has much wider leaf blades and more compact growth and its Pure Sativa. Also the stems are thin... its just difficult for me to imagine that they are going to produce much bud. And i may not even finish them if it takes longer than like 9 weeks to do so... Well, i'm sure i'll finish them, but it'll be after transplanting them, cuz i'ma need all them buckets for the next crop... so they may have to finish in garbage bags or something ... around the perimeter of the garden.
> .


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## Thundercat (Mar 3, 2009)

I'm not gonna through mine. They are a very heavy sativa, its silly to expect buds in 9 weeks. They recommend 12-14 weeks I think. I've got about 12 weeks planned, and if I have to I can sit on them for another week maybe two, but I'd rather not that will be cutting it close. I'm sure being a sativa they aren't gonna produce huge buds indoors, but its the genetics I had to work with, and mine are looking great. I've got a total of 5 planted, but I've been trimming all my plants to stay smaller, and more compact since most of them are sativas this run.


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## DaGambler (Mar 3, 2009)

torrey420 said:


> I grew 3 females out of the 5 freebies and didn't have the time to let them finsish, at 9 weeks they were just huge plants with tiny airy buds that were super disapointing, I just chopped em down with the rest of the harvest, difference being they went straight in the trash, not even worth keeping for hash, since there was no real thrichrome build up to speak of. Thats why I say you should throw them out, save yourself the dissapointment!


Scary, scary. Basically all the plants i have right now are at least showing female flowering at 10 days... except the Power Skunks. 14 weeks vs. 8 wks. ='s no way in hell i'll keep growing them. I'ma still try to finish the few out that i have now though. Thankfully, it would seem, i don't have all that many of them. 'Cuz I killed 3 of the 5 that i had during veg. growth before taking clones, cuz the veg. growth was completely not what i was looking for.


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## DaGambler (Mar 3, 2009)

raiderman said:


> ...WR are lookin good .thier bak on trak .fukin moisture , not reliable.how far do you stik the probe in .maybe its hittig some roots and getting a false reading,huh.


I've seen the plants you grow, i'm sure you'll get them back on track with or w/o a moisture meter 

stick in a finger knuckle deep. i just like a moisture meter for clones.. the container is too small for a finger and more accurate at getting down where the root zone is forming.
.


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## raiderman (Mar 3, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> I've seen the plants you grow, i'm sure you'll get them back on track with or w/o a moisture meter
> 
> stick in a finger knuckle deep. i just like a moisture meter for clones.. the container is too small for a finger and more accurate at getting down where the root zone is forming.
> .


 thanx bro,its brothers like you that hep make this forum an asset.


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## DaGambler (Mar 4, 2009)

Clone Update - Day 12'ish:

about 25 of the clones looked like they weren't ready for the real world after a day in the open air... so those two dozen went back under the domes for a couple days.

With respect for Today's Horoscope: 
"Everything is there for you to excel, make improvements or enjoy your life - just make the effort."
Tommorow i will be taking another 80 clones. If i am not Very Pleased with what happens during flowering with the Durban Poison, White Widow and Power Skunk ... i want to be prepared to move forward with a crop that is purely Mr. Nice and White Russian. The second batch will be about 2 weeks behind the first and have some catching up to do, but i'm not overly concerned as they will go to the flower room at the same time and the girls in there now are SOG'ing well enough even though some are 1 or 2 months older than the others.
.


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## growman3666 (Mar 4, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> Clone Update - Day 12'ish:
> 
> about 25 of the clones looked like they weren't ready for the real world after a day in the open air... so those two dozen went back under the domes for a couple days.
> 
> ...




lol they were still in their training bras


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## raiderman (Mar 4, 2009)

growman3666 said:


> lol they were still in their training bras


say bro i always leave my lid on till i see rooots even if its 2 weex, then transplant, . theyll go in to stall if not , and temps stay tropical in the dome...,lol.sounds like your gonna CC a bit.i keep my thermostat on 80 F on my mat. roots 7 to 8 day.95% success rate.got a pound of white widow las year jus in my closet,lol, i love that strain, wicked bud pattern .very wide buds .


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## DaGambler (Mar 4, 2009)

raiderman said:


> say bro i always leave my lid on till i see rooots even if its 2 weex, then transplant, . theyll go in to stall if not , and temps stay tropical in the dome...,lol.sounds like your gonna CC a bit.i keep my thermostat on 80 F on my mat. roots 7 to 8 day.95% success rate.got a pound of white widow las year jus in my closet,lol, i love that strain, wicked bud pattern .very wide buds .


ya, i'm less worried about the White Widow than i am the Durban Poison and the Power Skunk... i'd like to keep flowering time to 9 weeks total or less.
.


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## poundpusher2009 (Mar 4, 2009)

Wow very nice grow. Have you ever thought about going vertical with that much light power you would probably double your yield. I would assume if you built 2 flowering room with 2400 watts a piece you could probably harvest around 10 - 14 pounds with around 40 plants in each room. Much more efficient and economical. But overall a great grow. I wish you the best on your business opportunity.


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## DaGambler (Mar 4, 2009)

poundpusher2009 said:


> Wow very nice grow. Have you ever thought about going vertical with that much light power you would probably double your yield. I would assume if you built 2 flowering room with 2400 watts a piece you could probably harvest around 10 - 14 pounds with around 40 plants in each room. Much more efficient and economical. But overall a great grow. I wish you the best on your business opportunity.


If i were running (12) 1000w HPS bulbs in that same room (13' by 15') then two tier vertical would be the only way to go. SeeMoreBuds has some nice -fast turnover- videos using 2400 watts... his best was 6 lbs. w/that lumens, but the normal would be more like 4 lbs.. (8 lbs. from two rooms) The thing w/vertical, as with any other setup is that the more plants you have, the faster you can turn them over... so with only 40 plants in a vertical setup, 20 per level, you'd have some veg. time in front of you... and training the plants, etc. SeeMoreBuds got more from his flat grow not even using CO2 (6 lbs.) than any vertical garden that i have seen using the same watts (2400). I challenge you to find one vertical grower using that wattage that averages 6 lbs. a grow... because they seem to run into the same barrier that flat growers run into - getting more than 2lbs per 1000watts used.

Thanks for the compliments and fer stopping by my grow dude. I've deffinitely considered going vertical with these lights (2k and two levels per 8' by 8' octagon)... but i have been underwhelmed the more that i looked into it.
.


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## DaGambler (Mar 4, 2009)

2nd Batch of Clones:

Pic 1: Before being trimmed up, right after being taken.
Pic 2: After being trimmed up, ready now for the domes. After the domes i won't touch them again for about 7 days unless they look thirsty or there are yellow leaves to cut off. As long as there is good humidity on the dome I don't worry about misting them.

(Dip N' Grow and Miracle Grow Seed Starting Potting Soil)
.


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## gotot (Mar 5, 2009)

so what happen with that other shit?


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## DaGambler (Mar 5, 2009)

gotot said:


> so what happen with that other shit?


I feel like a newb for growing out some of the free seeds that i got... i shoulda just stuck with the two selections i had made. That being said, I'm sure i'll still have 65 or more females finish out the first crop. On the next crop i'll have a full house w/no surprises and all nice ladies.

Brief Summary:

Started with 10 seeds Sensi's G13xHP (Mr. Nice) only got two to grow (one of which was female) got more seed
Started 10 seeds Serious's White Russian, 5 seeds G13 Labs Power Skunk, 1 seed G13 Labs Durban Poison, 1 seed G13 Labs White Widow, 1 seed G13 Labs Northern Lights (never sprouted). Cloned all these bitches till i got up to 99+ plants that i transplanted into Hempy Buckets in the flower room. 

-Other Shit- (Started w/99): This is Day 16 Flower Cycle - Down to 72 plants (I killed all of the Power Skunk all but a couple of the White Widow... both from G13 Labs and THEY get a big -REP for those two. My 'Feminized' Power Skunk were all male except for one hermaphrodite. And the White Widow was an inferior specimen. They'd a'done me a favor by keeping those Freebies. I do seem to like their Durban Poison however... and will probably keep some on hand.

1st Clone Batch (Started w/160): This is Day 17 after being cut - killed all 8 Power Skunk clones and all 25 White Widow clones along with the G13xHP (male donor) clones. Down to around 106 confirmed females from Durban Poison, Mr. Nice, and White Russian.

2nd Clone Batch: Day 1 after being cut. Took 120 cuttings from confirmed Mr. Nice and White Russian females. These will go into the flower room at the same time as the first batch... they will be just a tad behind growth-wise some 6 weeks from now.

 Power Skunk Must Die !!!
.


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## 420weedman (Mar 5, 2009)

i got the free durban as well .... i have a clone 9 weeks into flowering now ... its fucking beautiful


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## Thundercat (Mar 5, 2009)

I wish my durban had sprouted, but unfortunatly it did not. But my power skunks are growing really nicely. Those clones look nice gambler, I'm about to take some more off my plants. I think 2 purple power clones, and 2 power skunks actually.


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## DaGambler (Mar 5, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> I wish my durban had sprouted, but unfortunatly it did not. But my power skunks are growing really nicely. Those clones look nice gambler, I'm about to take some more off my plants. I think 2 purple power clones, and 2 power skunks actually.


thanks man.
.


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## gotot (Mar 5, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> I feel like a newb for growing out some of the free seeds that i got... i shoulda just stuck with the two selections i had made. That being said, I'm sure i'll still have 65 or more females finish out the first crop. On the next crop i'll have a full house w/no surprises and all nice ladies.
> 
> Brief Summary:
> 
> ...


 sounds like the next batch will be awesome, where do you grow?(PM me if you want). can we get some more pics?


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## raiderman (Mar 5, 2009)

gotot said:


> sounds like the next batch will be awesome, where do you grow?(PM me if you want). can we get some more pics?


pics,pics,pics,lol.jus jkin. i did it the chicken shit way , i bought all my seeds for plants,jus few clones,,i had 25 rooted BM clones and haf hermied on me tho i picked them off and got it 98% seedless and tossed the clones because of the hermie prob. ,DP fem version suks,2 times ina row.jus ordred 3-5 packs of Blueberry skunk fem.everyone has bragged on this one i'll be a cloning fool with these,lol.. i already have a few pacs of reg. DP BB seeds ,lol. i ordered mine from seed boutique , 30% cheaper than attitude, 3.00 shipping and they always get here in texas in one week. looks great , glad to see you get the ball rolling.later.


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## raiderman (Mar 5, 2009)

poundpusher2009 said:


> Wow very nice grow. Have you ever thought about going vertical with that much light power you would probably double your yield. I would assume if you built 2 flowering room with 2400 watts a piece you could probably harvest around 10 - 14 pounds with around 40 plants in each room. Much more efficient and economical. But overall a great grow. I wish you the best on your business opportunity.


shoot ,you wish,lol, maybe outside bro,lol.


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## DaGambler (Mar 6, 2009)

gotot said:


> sounds like the next batch will be awesome, --where do you grow?--(PM me if you want). can we get some more pics?


i'm in the Dirty Dirty, just like Raiderman. i'll snap a couple off pretty soon. I started the journal once things were already going pretty good... and try to avoid too much anti-climactic information or pics 
.


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## DaGambler (Mar 6, 2009)

Update Pic 1: total of around 220 clones for the next crop. As soon as the current crop is harvested they will go 12/12 under the HPS lights. I'm looking at putting 2 into each 3 gallon Hempy Bucket. By then they will have been under flourescents for 7-9 weeks, have been topped once... and will be around 12" tall. 

Pic 2: One of the auto-flowering phenotype White Russians at 18 days into flowering. They don't all look like this  I wish they did. I have leaned as heavily toward the 'auto' side as i can... i still need them to veg. in the veg. cycle. A few of them are just too set on auto-flowering to clone well or go back to veg. growth. Others are more willing.

Pic 3: total of around 72 plants that are still marching on (about 1/3 pictured). I have killed off all Power Skunks, and almost all White Widows (mine was a poor specimen). G13xHP (20 percent), White Russian (70 percent), and Durban Poison (10 percent) remain. My next crop will be around 60 percent W.R., 30 percent G13xHP, and 10 percent D.P.

I'm still waiting for my replacement parts and my back-up ballast so i can spread these chickees back out under 4 lights rather than the 3 they are under now. I did finally get both of the portable a.c. units for th veg/flower rooms... hooking up the flower a.c. tommorow. The clones are now fairly comfortably set at a constant 80 degrees.
.


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## torrey420 (Mar 6, 2009)

Ha, after my last post about the Power Skunk, I remembered that I had 2 in my 3rd flower unit! Yanked those bitches out!!! I'm on a 3 week perpetual harvest so anything over 9 weeks flowering is not an option. 

Looking good though!




DaGambler said:


> Update Pic 1: total of around 220 clones for the next crop. As soon as the current crop is harvested they will go 12/12 under the HPS lights. I'm looking at putting 2 into each 3 gallon Hempy Bucket. By then they will have been under flourescents for 7-9 weeks, have been topped once... and will be around 12" tall.
> 
> Pic 2: One of the auto-flowering phenotype White Russians at 18 days into flowering. They don't all look like this  I wish they did. I have leaned as heavily toward the 'auto' side as i can... i still need them to veg. in the veg. cycle. A few of them are just too set on auto-flowering to clone well or go back to veg. growth. Others are more willing.
> 
> ...


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## DaGambler (Mar 7, 2009)

Pic 1: The first batch of clones 18'ish days after being cut. Looks like about 115 there. I lost one clone due to 'failure to thrive'. So 'success rate' is over 99 percent. Another clone i killed cuz i saw a bit of white mold on it. The other 43 clones i killed 'cuz i didn't like their mommas.

Pic 2: Close-up. They are not much worse for the wear at day 18. Most had domes off since day 9'ish... but the last five with domes were just released into the open air today finally, but are deffinitely rooted now. I will have to kill at least three more of these... cloned as an experiment; some strongly auto-flowering White Russians. They may take root... but only in an attempt to flower as their vegetative growth has stalled completely. Most of the other White Russian clones will go back into vegetative mode fairly easily.

Pic 3: The second batch of clones taken 2 days ago. There are 120 of those.

Pic 4: Close-Up of the Happy Farmer. Together these 235 clones will hopefully give me at least 198 lovely ladies for the next crop, 2 clones per 3 gallon Hempy Bucket.

Pic 5: The Big Girls around day 18. The sun is just beginning to rise in the north-west.

Pic 6: One half of the room. They are now arranged in (2) 9x4 patterns. (72 total.) The girls on the right are the ones leaning more toward the Auto-Flowering side of the Serious Seeds White Russian strain (Ak47xWhite Widow).. and a couple of the Mr. Nice-G13xHP from Sensi Seeds which stays very compact (indicaxindica). On the left side are mostly Durban Poison (apparently a pure sativa, though quite compact) and White Russian.

Pic 7: The other half of the room. A much more even canopy. 'Fraid the picture is a bit dark. Finally got all four lights working again.
.


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## Thundercat (Mar 7, 2009)

very nice man those are turning into some good bushs. Looks like one hell of a grow for sure. I can't wait till I can step I can step this up to a full time job! I'll have some pics up here in a bit if your interested!


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## DaGambler (Mar 8, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> very nice man those are turning into some good bushs. Looks like one hell of a grow for sure. I can't wait till I can step I can step this up to a full time job! I'll have some pics up here in a bit if your interested!


 
always am... i'm subscribed to your thread. i still don't think i've seen the inside of your tent though.

PIC UPDATE 1 & 2: The brighter light of day... (Day 20'ish)
.


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## Thundercat (Mar 8, 2009)

Very nice man I love those trees!! Mine are gonna be looking like bushs by my next update I think!! I LST'd several of them today.


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## heftamga (Mar 8, 2009)

awesome grow man. you really know what you're doing.
+++rep & subscribed more than ever before.


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## sparat1k (Mar 8, 2009)

rep+ for a badass grow


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## DaGambler (Mar 9, 2009)

thanks 4 stopping by fellers,
-dG
.


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## raiderman (Mar 11, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> thanks 4 stopping by fellers,
> -dG
> .


 sorry for posting,wont be bak


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## DaGambler (Mar 12, 2009)

raiderman said:


> sorry for posting,wont be bak


huh? i'm confused.

anyhow, brief written update. All are doing well. I just been giving the big girls 650 ppm nutes every time that i water them (not big on the whole feast or famine watering technique... but we'll see.)

Today's Safety Tip:

Make sure to check the bottoms of your shoes when you leave ur garden and go outside the grow room / house, etc. You don't want to carry a weed leaf onto your front porch... that would go bad when an officer is knocking on your door. And don't ever put a leaf (like a yellow leaf) in your pocket temporarily... it may get pulled out at an in-opportune time if you forget about it. Be Careful !! 
.


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## raiderman (Mar 12, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> huh? i'm confused.
> 
> anyhow, brief written update. All are doing well. I just been giving the big girls 650 ppm nutes every time that i water them (not big on the whole feast or famine watering technique... but we'll see.)
> 
> ...


 thought i was a t thgis other dudes thread bro, so sorry, i'm a clutz,lol.


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## DaGambler (Mar 12, 2009)

heheh.

Hopefully i just successfully re-wired one of my 1000w HPS ballasts and will be able to start using that again instead of the back-up (will find out later tonight when the lights come on).... then i'll be able to use the back-up ballast with a 1000w Metal Halide conversion bulb in the center of the room to supplement the 4 HPS bulbs. I'll also use the conversion bulb over the clones when they get bigger. And that'll be good for me since i just got my electric bill and it was just over <gasp> 600 bones. That'll be reduced by a third next month though since i just asked for (and got) a lower kwH rate. Going from around 19 cents per kwh to around 12.5 cents per kwh (doh!!!). They didn't come to me... i had to go to them and threaten to find a new provider.

So don't be afraid to ask for a lower Rate if someone else you know is paying less for electricity !
.


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## 420weedman (Mar 12, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> heheh.
> 
> Hopefully i just successfully re-wired one of my 1000w HPS ballasts and will be able to start using that again instead of the back-up (will find out later tonight when the lights come on).... then i'll be able to use the back-up ballast with a 1000w Metal Halide conversion bulb in the center of the room to supplement the 4 HPS bulbs. I'll also use the conversion bulb over the clones when they get bigger. And that'll be good for me since i just got my electric bill and it was just over <gasp> 600 bones. That'll be reduced by a third next month though since i just asked for (and got) a lower kwH rate. Going from around 19 cents per kwh to around 12.5 cents per kwh (doh!!!). They didn't come to me... i had to go to them and threaten to find a new provider.
> 
> ...


electricty is so fucked up out here ... we pay for the power .08-.10
and then we have to pay for it all again because it was "delivered" @ .12
and then theres the service charge of 10 for the month for .... charging me for service i guess ? 

in the end it comes out to be like .22kwh

btw- you got some freaky avatars .... last one was a little less... but this one looks like a chicks body with a dudes head ?


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## DaGambler (Mar 13, 2009)

420weedman said:


> btw- you got some freaky avatars .... last one was a little less... but this one looks like a chicks body with a dudes head ?


i have no explanation for that 
.

Pic 1: I studied a calendar for a very long time and came to the conclusion that i am smoking too much weed lately  so, anyways, today was actually day 19 for the first batch of clones (day 9 for the second batch).

Pic 2: Helicopter view of the new 1000w MH Conversion bulb in the center of the 4 HPS. Also pictured is a new sulphur vaporizer. And the new 13,000 btu portable a.c. unit. After the picture, I moved some plants a bit more into the isle to better take advantage of this light.

Pic 3: Day 18 of flowering for this White Russian fairly strong auto-flower. Other plants are bigger right now but their buds are smaller than these for the time being.
.


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## torrey420 (Mar 13, 2009)

I'll add that if you own a dog or dogs, make sure to give them a once over after trimming your newly harvested buds! Amazing how many clippings can get stuck to their coats!




DaGambler said:


> huh? i'm confused.
> 
> anyhow, brief written update. All are doing well. I just been giving the big girls 650 ppm nutes every time that i water them (not big on the whole feast or famine watering technique... but we'll see.)
> 
> ...


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## Thundercat (Mar 13, 2009)

Looks great gambler. Just a thought, but you might try hanging the 1000mh in the middle open with out the cool tube, since you don't have the cool tube hooked up. I was just thinking it might spread more light over all the plants. Any way, just a thought, lookin good man. I should have pics of mine up later tonight.


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## Stoney Jake (Mar 13, 2009)

My new hero..lol
Great grow man, good luck


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## DaGambler (Mar 14, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> Looks great gambler. Just a thought, but you might try hanging the 1000mh in the middle open with out the cool tube, since you don't have the cool tube hooked up. I was just thinking it might spread more light over all the plants. Any way, just a thought, lookin good man. I should have pics of mine up later tonight.


 
right right. this was one that the glass broke during shipping... i'm just using the reflector 'cuz its in a horizontal position, no glass. I thought about just suspending it vertically... but thought i'd get more useable lumens horizontal over the garden w/the reflector.

i was just looking at how nice it would be to have a couple 600's between the two rows of 1000's  ... must ... say ... no ... to .... more .... lighting !!! Damn, maybe next crop. I'm broke.
.


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## raiderman (Mar 14, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> right right. this was one that the glass broke during shipping... i'm just using the reflector 'cuz its in a horizontal position, no glass. I thought about just suspending it vertically... but thought i'd get more useable lumens horizontal over the garden w/the reflector.
> 
> i was just looking at how nice it would be to have a couple 600's between the two rows of 1000's  ... must ... say ... no ... to .... more .... lighting !!! Damn, maybe next crop. I'm broke.
> .


say DG, its all cool theres somethin about challenge i like,lolol.you bra and BAM and Flojo and many others are the ones i take notes on your vert settup.were kind of like the only place in the world where jus reg strangers internationally come together to get along ,here smoke this,lol.still have some THC ball left, almost like ectasy,lololol.i love it..somethin on the DL ,i lived out side oakland ,Sonora, jus 70 miles in 81,82 season.thats wy i'm called raiderman, and that needs no more mentioning... cool is cool bra,,,,man ,yea i got some experience thats probably overwtered twice ina row to soon. i run a business and have to to Dtown often sometimes and hurry up shit had me crosseyed,lolol.if you knew wat tha tmeant,,, somethin is ffixing to get broke over ignoace.. 2pieces of glass and a glass spoon ,lol.i done replaced them uggh, these were the one i got fom amsterdam,real stupid,huh.the new ones are bad.. i have very large lungs is wy i bot that real bigone on my bc grow journal smoking out of a bong gets maxed high on these wonderful strains the other one is a detachable large pen ,put weed init ,screw it bak on, take the cap off and clik the torch and without tokin the pen it jus comes yp in real thik clouds,,,every time i go to a headshop they think i mu\ite be the police,lol, police ,its funny , a big health nut buyout a bunch killler bongs,lolol, then i buy the stuff no one can affor,laterbro,, always welcome at my thread..Did you see pineapple express if not that movie is the bes comey written .. its on indoor growing and killler strains,so funny


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## raiderman (Mar 14, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> i have no explanation for that
> .
> 
> Pic 1: I studied a calendar for a very long time and came to the conclusion that i am smoking too much weed lately  so, anyways, today was actually day 19 for the first batch of clones (day 9 for the second batch).
> ...


i was to until came g13hp and and changed evrything.shits to fking strong to stay ,OD and go to sleep on 2 hits,lolool.... funny i would look at the bud long and hard before it was approached, jus am not sure if i want to go that far,trippin that is,,lololol.wen the havest is done as a momento i always buy a piece .. gonna get that big dragon bong that is awsome ,,like 600 dollars.


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## DaGambler (Mar 14, 2009)

raiderman said:


> i was to until came g13hp and and changed evrything.shits to fking strong to stay ,OD and go to sleep on 2 hits,lolool.... funny i would look at the bud long and hard before it was approached, jus am not sure if i want to go that far,trippin that is,,lololol.wen the havest is done as a momento i always buy a piece .. gonna get that big dragon bong that is awsome ,,like 600 dollars.


heheh, hope my g13hp comes out the same. sounds like a respectable weed. if by 'big dragon bong' ur talking about the hurricane / cyclone / vortex bong or whatever that gots a frosted dragon like etched or sandblasted on the side... that thing is frickin sweet.....

http://www.everyonedoesit.com/online_headshop/Hurricane_1000__3_Jet__Flying_Dragons.cfm?iProductID=6309
.


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## DaGambler (Mar 14, 2009)

raiderman said:


> were kind of like the only place in the world where jus reg strangers internationally come together to get along ,here smoke this,lol.still have some THC ball left, almost like ectasy,lololol...Did you see pineapple express if not that movie is the bes comey written .. its on indoor growing and killler strains,so funny


 
ya, that movie is frick'n hilarious.
.


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## justatoker (Mar 14, 2009)

wow dude you win the gayest avatar ever prize. that shit makes me wanna hurle.


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## justatoker (Mar 14, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> Goal: A modest 5 lbs. per crop, 4 crops per year.
> Sensi's G13xHP, Serious's White Russian, and some freebie Durban Poison, White Widow, and Power Skunk (all three G13 Labs)
> 
> The Setup:
> ...


 
all i can say is i hope your legal.

good luck


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## DaGambler (Mar 14, 2009)

Pic 1: Close-Up day 20 on the first batch of clones.

Pic 2: Some Datura Stramonium seedlings... don't ask me why the hell i'm growing that  apparently some wickedly powerful stuff... as little as 50 seeds has caused persons to trip (unknowingly) for 3 days and about 1/2 the persons that take a fairly strong dose tend to end up in a hospital after police contact  i've also heard that just smoking the flower or leaf has a much shorter and more controlled effect. and that as little as 2 seeds made into a tea can have a noticeable effect. the stronger doses cause a person to experience things like speaking to someone that isn't actually there... and then when they dissapear suddenly it all seems 100 percent normal and expected... 'cuz you actually believe the hullucinations !!

Pic 3: Day 10 on the 2nd batch of clones. The domes came off all of them today for the second time... and will stay off, unless i see a few struggling. I hit all of them with a 500 ppm foliar spray and gave any of those yellowing a bit .. a tiny shot of the same ppms in the soil. They will probably all survive, but a couple always grow a bit slower and likely won't be used.
.


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## DaGambler (Mar 14, 2009)

justatoker said:


> wow dude you win the gayest avatar ever prize. that shit makes me wanna hurle.


bah, you wish ur girlfriend was that hot (if you had one). i got a truckload of fantasy and sci-fi chickees just waiting to be my avatar. fer real, though, i -love- her. lickee lickee.
.


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## BAYAREAMEDICAL (Mar 14, 2009)

SHIT IS BANGIN.. IM READY TO CHOP INA COUPLE DAYS, I JUST GOT 4 600W HPS TO ADD TO MY 5 X 1000...IMA GO HARD ON THIS NEXT JOURNAL....


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## raiderman (Mar 14, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> bah, you wish ur girlfriend was that hot (if you had one). i got a truckload of fantasy and sci-fi chickees just waiting to be my avatar. fer real, though, i -love- her. lickee lickee.
> .


 theres a little hottie makes her way over time to time,see if she'll let me pic here ,lol,i'll post it,lol.


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## DaGambler (Mar 14, 2009)

raiderman said:


> theres a little hottie makes her way over time to time,see if she'll let me pic here ,lol,i'll post it,lol.


just make sure to get some weed in the picture... we deffinitely could use more pictures of naked women next to marijuana on this site. That's really what this site is most lacking, i beleive. 
.


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## DaGambler (Mar 14, 2009)

BAYAREAMEDICAL said:


> SHIT IS BANGIN.. IM READY TO CHOP INA COUPLE DAYS, I JUST GOT 4 600W HPS TO ADD TO MY 5 X 1000...IMA GO HARD ON THIS NEXT JOURNAL....


choppy choppy time. nice. After about a pound of trimming indica, i find that it just starts to look like lettuce with trichomes on it  (so you save that part!) heheh. 

man, say it ain't so with the lights. ha ha. that would be 7400w just in the flower room. or, are some of those for cloning? I'm prolly running about 5960w between vedge and flower rooms just on lights. but i was just looking at how a couple more 600's would really light the biatch up !! maybe next time around. crazy stuff.
.


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## raiderman (Mar 14, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> choppy choppy time. nice. After about a pound of trimming indica, i find that it just starts to look like lettuce with trichomes on it  (so you save that part!) heheh.
> 
> man, say it ain't so with the lights. ha ha. that would be 7400w just in the flower room. or, are some of those for cloning? I'm prolly running about 5960w between vedge and flower rooms just on lights. but i was just looking at how a couple more 600's would really light the biatch up !! maybe next time around. crazy stuff.
> .


damn thats alot of lite,,,wwow.


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## DaGambler (Mar 17, 2009)

(Day 21 for the Big Girls)

The plants are now in an "I" formation (see Pic 1) under the 5 HPS lights, going to hold off on using the MH conversion bulb in the center until the last 2 or 3 weeks... hoping it will boost trichome production by giving them some UVB. Was going to pick up like 4 ReptiGlo 10.0 bulbs for one side of the garden as an experiment, but that'll have to wait due to budget constraints.

I just burned sulphur in the sulphur vaporiser for the first time at day 20... a bit later than i would like, but i wanted to do it at least once before the point of no return. I've never had problems w/powdery mildew, but i don't want to start now. May be that the ozone generator helps me to avoid that as well. It runs 15 minutes out of every hour.

I just stripped off approximately 50 percent of the fan leaves... especially those up top and those blocking light to the smaller buds. Other than that i did a light lolly-popping at the start of flower, just taking the bottom 4 branches or so.

I've noticed that the pure indicas don't clone quite as easily as the crosses. The indicas yellow up more readily. The success rate is about the same, but they seem to have a harder time of it and require more 'babying' as far as being misted, etc.

Pic 2: A White Russian (AK47xWhiteWidow) hybrid at 21 days.
Pic 3: A Mr. Nice (G13xHashPlant) pure indica at 21 days.
.


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## LoganSmith (Mar 17, 2009)

super set up. 
One question, in a few pics the cuttings have zip ties around them, what is it? 

Peace-


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## raiderman (Mar 17, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> (Day 21 for the Big Girls)
> 
> The plants are now in an "I" formation (see Pic 1) under the 5 HPS lights, going to hold off on using the MH conversion bulb in the center until the last 2 or 3 weeks... hoping it will boost trichome production by giving them some UVB. Was going to pick up like 4 ReptiGlo 10.0 bulbs for one side of the garden as an experiment, but that'll have to wait due to budget constraints.
> 
> ...


looks sweet , ns growing skills, i recognize that one on the rite ,beautiful white wooly hairs of the g13 hp.i'm doin my 3 clones and one mother presently flowering as well , that shit so strong that 2 bong hits get yyou so wasted give ya shaky hands,lololol....awsome settup bro ,if i go pro i'm gonna need some hep on design settups and alike,in wich i am going to relocate to a secluded area , hpefullty this yr,then, i want to grow some smokin outdoor plants as well , i will have purple plants everywhere , because it gets hot here,which encourages making purple plants ,lol.feel free bro to co me by and ask anything you want,at least you respond wen i post ,and acknowledge coming from someone thats super cropping like yersef,, beside ed ros and Mr. howard marks and my friend marc emery (in whom showed me the ropes as well and reading) goten all my genetics from for a couple yrs.thier mostly gone, and not online much anymore that have similar settups.beside ed and marc emery,(thier warehouse growers), but similar in every aspect, like mysef you got alot of time to spare,lol. ,haha, its ashame you dont live aroud here bro, goin out on the lake this weekend, its going to get real warm, pussy every where spring break,lol.,., i'll be doing 4 to 6 600s..jus lookin at yours is really encouraging me now to find me a location, jus cant up and leave ,got a lot of responsibilities for the moment, but fixing to solve those issues.i really like those mylar wlls damn ns .imprssed.well thought out plan... funny about this Bcheese , i can already see it lookin like that avitar of a ,previous grow 5 yrs ago.,i dont mean to be long winded on your thread jus to explain a bit better where im coming from,,grow on bro.


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## Thundercat (Mar 17, 2009)

Lookin real nice Gambler. I'd like to grow some white russian at some point, yours look nice!


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## DaGambler (Mar 17, 2009)

LoganSmith said:


> super set up.
> One question, in a few pics the cuttings have zip ties around them, what is it?
> 
> Peace-


its just for identification. i also have some cheapie plastic beads from walmart. a bead for each strain and 2 different colored zip ties to differentiate a couple phenotypes w/in the strain.
.


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## DaGambler (Mar 17, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> Lookin real nice Gambler. I'd like to grow some white russian at some point, yours look nice!


on top of being potent, it looks like its going to be a very good yeilder, so that would be just gravy! and it clones easily.
.


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## DaGambler (Mar 17, 2009)

raiderman said:


> looks sweet , ns growing skills, i recognize that one on the rite ,beautiful white wooly hairs of the g13 hp.i'm doin my 3 clones and one mother presently flowering as well , that shit so strong that 2 bong hits get yyou so wasted give ya shaky hands,lololol....awsome settup bro ,if i go pro i'm gonna need some hep on design settups and alike...


i don't mind shaky hands, i'm not a doctor  the pure indicas deffinitley do their own thing when it comes to flowering. the 'design and setup' thread is one of my favorites... i've spent many a 'blueprint' trying to figure what would be the best way to optimize certain spaces or number of lights, etc. so i'm always happy to throw in my two cents there.
.


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## raiderman (Mar 17, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> i don't mind shaky hands, i'm not a doctor  the pure indicas deffinitley do their own thing when it comes to flowering. the 'design and setup' thread is one of my favorites... i've spent many a 'blueprint' trying to figure what would be the best way to optimize certain spaces or number of lights, etc. so i'm always happy to throw in my two cents there.
> .


gonna print out secs of your journal and order the extras i need to get this happening..thanx , very complete and explanitory .i'm gonna be lookin at some storage units and find wat i need. now i jus have the 2-600s a250 mh/hps conversion lamp for mothers , for slower veg growth, can do 4 under one lite, and florecent tubes for cloning,heat matt and temp controller, to get that 95% root rate.,,i'll go from there.,as far as weight goes i'm sur i'll get 2 , and think 3 is a potential,better way to say,lol,funny,,,i dont mind shshshshaky hands either, ibroke down you were rite,haha ,u know me better than i do,, i'm jus and old school pothead that still thinks hes 20,lol.46, but healthier than a 20 yr old.kinda lika fruit stand,flavors flavors,.sorry for postin ,couldnt hep mysef,24 oz., i need more sef control, so stoned rite now,,whizzinator here i come,hahahahahhahahaha.lolol.later bro.


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## DaGambler (Mar 18, 2009)

raiderman said:


> ,i dont mind shshshshaky hands either, ibroke down you were rite,haha ,u know me better than i do...


haha, ya i told myself i'd quit smokin for 2 weeks today (after all, my employer does do random drug testing)... but, come on, it's St. Patricks day for god's sake !!! green is the color of the day  nice attachment, also. i was thinking of vacuum sealing for safety after harvest (reduced smell) but i hate the thought of scrunching up perfectly lovely nugs as well.
.


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## justatoker (Mar 18, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> bah, you wish ur girlfriend was that hot (if you had one). i got a truckload of fantasy and sci-fi chickees just waiting to be my avatar. fer real, though, i -love- her. lickee lickee.
> .


the first avatar u had was a dude dressed like a chick.. I see u changed it though.. And it auto changed the one in my post as well .


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## raiderman (Mar 18, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> haha, ya i told myself i'd quit smokin for 2 weeks today (after all, my employer does do random drug testing)... but, come on, it's St. Patricks day for god's sake !!! green is the color of the day  nice attachment, also. i was thinking of vacuum sealing for safety after harvest (reduced smell) but i hate the thought of scrunching up perfectly lovely nugs as well.
> .


yea me too,lol. haha,funny,yea theres this dude on this forum that refuses any nutes and chemicals,pure organic , telling me we need to "go green" in stead,,i told him there are only two greens i give a shit about, the one on the plant and the one in my pocket.and if that causes the atmosphere to split ,i'll jus have to go buy an umbrella,.lol.


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## raiderman (Mar 18, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> haha, ya i told myself i'd quit smokin for 2 weeks today (after all, my employer does do random drug testing)... but, come on, it's St. Patricks day for god's sake !!! green is the color of the day  nice attachment, also. i was thinking of vacuum sealing for safety after harvest (reduced smell) but i hate the thought of scrunching up perfectly lovely nugs as well.
> .


i do dry mine not crispy, but 95% ,baggy size buds ,,,,wen its too crispy smokes like gunpowder,lol.,,,, and then bag it and keep it in the padlocked deep freezer through the garaged locked door jus on the other side of the secured tent garden where a very large animal is on the other side,, untill company comes,lol....say man feel free to post anything on my thread you want to share and chk out,,it is for friends to hangout and BS,.upgrading our lives to the" Bob Marley Foundation,"lolol
but i do think i may go get one of cds ,i kinda like some island carribean music,and some island tunes,stayed at North Shore in waikiki once .Pacific Hotel. planned only a week ,lo we stayed amonth haha,had to drag me awy from there ,lotta sex lotta sex, mostly cali girls vacationing , hundreds of thousands all over the place without many fat ones,lol, like it is at a lake where its disgusting to drivethrough at times.chopped liver,lolol.,,lol..me and a buddy who i was runnin with at the time decided to put 25000 together and vacation for bit .hahaha, 3 weex cost us 18,000, fucken it off,,,i'd do it a gain if opertunity avails but much cheaper and wiser.i know that place up and bak , but i was doina bit more than smoke back then some yrs ago,for some stupid reason we bot motyorcycles, then had to havre them shipped at 800.00 each .yea that was the dumb part i wast thinking with the wrong head,lol.lol then wen we got to frsco we jus rode the pacific seaboard ,moved to northern cali. up in sonora later bro.


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## DaGambler (Mar 18, 2009)

justatoker said:


> the first avatar u had was a dude dressed like a chick.. I see u changed it though.. And it auto changed the one in my post as well .


the chick in the first attachment is the one ur talking about. take a good look. (click on large image for sharper picture) doesn't look like a dude to me. i stand by my statement, you've never been with a chick that hot (or perhaps any chick at all). First thing you do is bring negativity to my thread by claiming i'm gay or some shite. If you need a parting shot, feel free to take one, then please be a better man than i think you are... and grace my thread with your presence no further.
.


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## raiderman (Mar 18, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> the chick in the first attachment is the one ur talking about. take a good look. (click on large image for sharper picture) doesn't look like a dude to me. i stand by my statement, you've never been with a chick that hot (or perhaps any chick at all). First thing you do is bring negativity to my thread by claiming i'm gay or some shite. If you need a parting shot, feel free to take one, then please be a better man than i think you are... and grace my thread with your presence no further.
> .


maybe hes needs to get bak to crayolas before he goes any farther,lol.


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## DaGambler (Mar 19, 2009)

back to business maybe. 

here we have "Shiver - the Frost Dragon" and "Pure - the Frost Goddess". heheh.

the dragon is just a frosted glass dry pipe with red colored eyes.

the beaker is frosted glass 20" double tree perc with diffused down stem and ice pinches. still working on a ashcatcher for it.

i'm afraid to smoke out of either one of them or to get them dirty. especially the dragon. many beakers might look like this one... but the dragon seems more one of a kind, like it belongs in an art gallery or something. when the nugs are kind enough... i do believe they might get dirty in the Dirty, Dirty South.
.


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## Stoney Jake (Mar 19, 2009)

I like that dragon, very nice. I like collecting bongs and pipes
Heres my dragon steamroller. The smoke comes out the dragons mouth. Needs to be cleaned lol


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## DaGambler (Mar 19, 2009)

Stoney Jake said:


> I like that dragon, very nice. I like collecting bongs and pipes
> Heres my dragon steamroller. The smoke comes out the dragons mouth. Needs to be cleaned lol


that's a crazy arse looking steam roller ... kinda like the carb is on the end of the pipe. but deffinitely one of the coolest steamrollers i've ever seen.
.


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## Stoney Jake (Mar 19, 2009)

thanks
One of my buddies gave it to me when he was moving out of the country. He came back a few years later but its still with me lol. I did offer it back to him but I think he felt strange about it since I had it for so long so he didnt take it


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## Thundercat (Mar 19, 2009)

YA that is a really sweet piece man!


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## DaGambler (Mar 21, 2009)

Weekend Plans (Day 25 of Flower):

the male has some baggies wrapped around the larger 'colas' and i've been catching a bit of spooey. Man, it would take some doing to get a serious amount of it. I'll just have to make do. 

my boy is a Mr. Nice (g13xhashplant) and the girl will be a horny little White Russian (ak47xwhitewidow). Hopefully i'll be able to meet a 'Nice Russian'.
.


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## raiderman (Mar 21, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> Weekend Plans (Day 25 of Flower):
> 
> the male has some baggies wrapped around the larger 'colas' and i've been catching a bit of spooey. Man, it would take some doing to get a serious amount of it. I'll just have to make do.
> 
> ...


great idea, ,ns breeding intro,i need to do the same. sweet piec of glass there,i only smoke this home grown weed in bongs, i think its a waste any other way,, haha,yea wen my babies pan out gettin this smokin piece of glass tha i'd feel proud to own,lol.great job DG.ugh, havent had my morning toke then coffee, lol.youll find out that the g13hp wasnt much for smell and taste,rather rough actually,, but because your smoking pure trichomes,, its got me intimidated,lol,strongest i ever smoked,,see wat this wr does,huh will set on qarter pound ea.wr and b c. for safe keepin., brain damage,lol.really love these new babies,lol.for real.


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## DaGambler (Mar 21, 2009)

so it wasn't so easy to select a female white russian because of all the variations in phenotype... i settled on one with very close internodes and a strong tendency to grow into a central cola (rather than the hedge-like growth of the father or the christmas-tree type growth of other white russians). I also chose a female that has been displaying a strong tendency toward being an auto-flower with some good early trichome production.

the father was an easy pick. he and a single female alone popped from the original 10 seeds of Mr. Nice.
.


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## DaGambler (Mar 21, 2009)

How To Pollinate the Female at 3 Weeks Flowering:

So i been catching the male spooey for the last couple weeks via (3) different plastic baggies wrapped around the main male plants 'colas' or flowering clusters. 

I've been watching the little fairy dust build up in the bottoms of these baggies... flicking the open seed pods w/in the baggies once-a-day to knock off more pollen.

I made the female selection... i choose a nice secluded side branch for the site of copulation. I bring the female to the male. I trim the fan leaves off of the female bud. I bend the male and female flowersites near to eachother and dip the female branch into the males pollen bag. I then close the bag around the base of the female bud and start stirring up the pollen within. Flicking the bag and turning it and mashing them together and just rubbing the male against the female while pulling her out of the bag (I feel so dirty). I then tickled his balls and the bottom of the bags with a paintbrush and stroked it all along her little white pubic hair. (I then cleaned myself off and took a cold shower.)

She is back with her sisters now. Though i don't think she'll walk for a week.
 

Pic 1: The naughty boy sits in the corner lonely and frustrated. The bags are open at both ends and slipped over the flowering 'colas' then twist-tied shut around the stem... with the tops of the bags left open. I like to mistreat him. The light goes on and off at odd hours. All he gets is a flourescent fixture. And i don't water him until he has no tears left to cry.
.


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## Stoney Jake (Mar 21, 2009)

lol
sounds like you had a little to much fun there bro.


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## just L (Mar 21, 2009)

Dude that avatar rocks! keep up the good work, good luck with the sexin


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## ChipotleChips (Mar 21, 2009)

Insane grow setup dude, wish I could dedicate one of my rooms. Rep on that man. I'm pulling a chair up.


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## DaGambler (Mar 22, 2009)

just L said:


> Dude that avatar rocks! keep up the good work, good luck with the sexin


yer. i'm hop'in she takes. i wanna be a daddy.
.


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## DaGambler (Mar 22, 2009)

so i been smokin on this white russian that i'm growing (of course) and it just keeps getting stronger and stronger (day 25 of flower) ... a minute ago i just took one hit and smoked myself sober.  but before that it deffinitely caused me to take a little 'trippy'. Eyes closed major visuals... as well as some open eye visuals. I was looking at a picture of my dead homie that i have hanging in the grow room and his eyes kept going black and showing me the abyss.  ya, that might be -too- much information. anyway, the point being, this shite is going to be hella hella strong !! heheh.
.


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## raiderman (Mar 22, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> so i been smokin on this white russian that i'm growing (of course) and it just keeps getting stronger and stronger (day 25 of flower) ... a minute ago i just took one hit and smoked myself sober.  but before that it deffinitely caused me to take a little 'trippy'. Eyes closed major visuals... as well as some open eye visuals. I was looking at a picture of my dead homie that i have hanging in the grow room and his eyes kept going black and showing me the abyss.  ya, that might be -too- much information. anyway, the point being, this shite is going to be hella hella strong !! heheh.
> .


 wats up DG?yea, good idea breeding ,,, i have 4 or 5 different reg. pacs jus in case i decide.may kget me a male Blueberry going in the closet and variety in the other , take three flavors in there and seed them at 6 weex into flower, get thousands ,lol.. now if we could get the technique to feminize them like big buddah and flying dutchman ,paradise seeds,,, have you thought about that white berry, or that super heavy yielder from TH seeds, heavy duty fruity,haha, jus thinkin out loud ,real stoned.


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## DaGambler (Mar 26, 2009)

This book 'Preview' has some great stuff in it... from the book called Indoor Marijunana Horticulture:

http://books.google.com/books?id=rnwwxoOb3gUC&pg=PA293&lpg=PA293&dq=drying+marijuana+75+percent&source=bl&ots=6hRNh_JHfp&sig=zKMmhjlgD3puYkHNC1LjndahynQ&hl=en&ei=q0fLSc6lGoL6yAWwsqnaCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPP1,M1

I was looking for the following information when i found it... "Drying also converts 75 percent or more of the freshly harvested plant into water vapor and other gasses."

'cuz i was trying to figure out the optimum water loss when drying buds. ie; you start with 100 grams in a paper bag. you want the contents of the bag to weight about 25 grams when ur done drying it.
.


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## Thundercat (Mar 26, 2009)

Great link Gambler that is a good book.


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## DaGambler (Mar 29, 2009)

-P-I-C-T-U-R-E---U-P-D-A-T-E- (ONE)

Pic 1: Day 32 for the first batch of clones. 112 total after killing off all the Power Skunk and White Widow.

Pic 2: Day 22 for the second batch of clones. 120 total, all survived.

Pic 3: Some of the smaller Day 22 clones.

Pic 4: Some Datura Stramonium seedlings at 21 days... which will be going outside soon. I won't be wasting indoor space on these. the first leaves are the cotyledon (or primitive leaves) like with mary j. the second set of leaves look more like the varieties true leaves but are just like spades and very symetrical. the third set of leaves begins the 'true leaf' growth - they are jagged and more irregular than symetrical.
.


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## DaGambler (Mar 29, 2009)

-P-I-C-T-U-R-E---U-P-D-A-T-E- (TWO)

Pic 1: Auto-flowering White Russian at 32 days.

Pic 2: Non-auto White Russian at 32 days.

Pic 3: Mr. Nice at 32 days.

Pic 4: Helicopter diagonal view of room.
.


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## DaGambler (Mar 29, 2009)

-P-I-C-T-U-R-E---U-P-D-A-T-E- (THREE)

Pic 1: N.W. of the "I" formation.

Pic 2: N.E. of the "I" formation. Some DIY plant supports visible. Made from 3' no-climb fencing. very sturdy, plants not going anywhere. split into 18" high sections. this is the auto-flower corner... they were already getting too heavy to support their own weight... and i have tons of air movement to strengthen the stems.

Pic 3: S.W. of the "I" formation.

Pic 4: S.E. of the "I" formation.

Pic 5: Down the center of the "I".

with not much happening during the first 14 days of the flower cycle... hopefully what i am looking at here is about 2 weeks of 'actual' flower time - with about 4 more weeks to go. i'm hoping that the buds get to be at least 3x as big as they are right now... and am still shooting for 4 lbs. from this crop though i am down to 72 containers after killing almost all the White Widow and all but one of the Power Skunk ('cuz i didn't like how they were growing or flowering).
.


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## just L (Mar 29, 2009)

dude great pics!!!!! im very impressed, keep up the good fight.


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## 420weedman (Mar 30, 2009)

thats killer man, what are the dimensions of that room ?

i spend enough time dickin around in my 6x9 room ... cant imagine playing with all ur plants


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## BAYAREAMEDICAL (Mar 30, 2009)

ima roll the dice agian 2x's................ just started my new journal come by and check it out


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## DaGambler (Mar 30, 2009)

420weedman said:


> thats killer man, what are the dimensions of that room ?
> 
> i spend enough time dickin around in my 6x9 room ... cant imagine playing with all ur plants


the room is 13' by 15' but theres a good 2' around all the edges... plus the 'divots' in the "I" formation that they are in.

ya, i try to get in and get out. but sometimes i find myself just standing there and staring at them 
.


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## 420weedman (Mar 30, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> ya, i try to get in and get out. but sometimes i find myself just standing there and staring at them
> .


 
before, during, and after watering.... its so fucking easy to get distracted


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## Thundercat (Mar 31, 2009)

Looks great man!! The plants in the second picture with the supports, look amazing. Is that the mr. nice?


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## DaGambler (Mar 31, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> Looks great man!! The plants in the second picture with the supports, look amazing. Is that the mr. nice?


all of the ones in that corner are Auto-flowering white russians... except for the one pot furthest on the left and the plant diagonally behind it (which are mr. nice). in the upper right corner of that picture there is a auto w.r. that is just lying against the cage. i think it's down for the count and won't be getting up again  hopefully she continues to bulk way way up though. With the air flow as it is i really didn't think i'd even need any supports, but i sure do. bamboo stakes would prolly be better ... but sometimes you gotta make do. i didn't feel like rushing into buying 70 dollars worth of bamboo off ebay and getting 3x as much as i need. prolly will next go-round though.
.


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## Thundercat (Mar 31, 2009)

Good times, they look very bulky already, looks great man.


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## DaGambler (Apr 1, 2009)

Day 34'ish of Flowering:

they are losing the occasional fan leaf a bit more often than i would like. the ladies are up to 1600 ppm every watering. they may not be getting all of it right now though 'cuz the bio-diversity and population of the medium is prolly pretty low. if/when i run out of organic G.H. Flora Nova nutrients ... i'll prolly go back to their 3 part chemical nutrients. also threw some blue mountain plant tonic (micro beasties) in there to try to jump start them a bit more on the organic nutes. (EDIT: the 1600 ppm has brought some color back so i'll be dropping back down to around 1000-1200 ppm for awhile.)

the ozone generator was just switched from 15 min. out of every hour -- to 15 min each for 5 hours, and 30 min out of the next 1 hour, and repeat (4x) daily.

the diatamaceous earth is still holding up well around the edges of the garden.
.


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## Old Frog (Apr 1, 2009)

Nice work man. Balls out is the only way to go from now until the mayan martians come down to get us. 

Doing something similar in my neck of the woods, you should check it out. 

+rep for the backpack you use to carry those gigantic testicles around... Looks like I'm into another sick journal ride!


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## DaGambler (Apr 1, 2009)

Old Frog said:


> +rep for the backpack you use to carry those gigantic testicles around... Looks like I'm into another sick journal ride!


i've built up a tolerance from an early age... no backpack is needed 

checked ur grow, i'll be watching.
.


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## DaGambler (Apr 3, 2009)

40 Days (Flower) Clone Room Update

[IN THE VERY DRAMATIC BLACK AND WHITE ORIGINAL LITHOGRAPHS]

Pic 1: Helicopter view of the clone room.

Pic 2: The 40 day old (large) clones.

Pic 3: The 30 day old (medium) clones.

Pic 4: The 30 day old (small) clones.
.


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## fdd2blk (Apr 3, 2009)

your floor is filthy. do you own a vacuum? lol


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## Old Frog (Apr 3, 2009)

Fuck dude, that's the Valhalla of clone setups.


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## DaGambler (Apr 3, 2009)

fdd2blk said:


> your floor is filthy. do you own a vacuum? lol


it wasn't in the budget 

the good news is theres also some diatamaceous earth scattered around down there.
.


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## fdd2blk (Apr 3, 2009)

drop some beans down there. lol


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## DaGambler (Apr 3, 2009)

Alright... so here's a quick BIO: (I'll skip the dryer parts.)

i started growing around 15 years ago. i was a sophomore in college and thought that a single outdoor crop would finance my entire college education. so i planted some (mexican?) bag seeds on an apartment balcony and eventually hiked out into the woods and planted them in a very fertile and lush area next to a creek. 50 total. within a week rabbits and deer mauled half the crop. so i start using amonia-based deer/rabbit repellant. down to 25. a couple weeks later bugs swarmed on my plants and killed several more. so i start using Sevin insect control. Down to 18. Half the crop turns out to be male and i kill them. Down to 9. shortly before harvest a police helicopter zooms along the trail leading to my plants and hovers directly over me for around 2 minutes. apparently they decide that i am just some wayward youth rather than a hardened criminal ... and they eventually leave the area and initiate no further contact. (I believe a couple guys on four wheelers spotted the plants and called it in.) So i go back again anyways and harvest my crop. It sucked. I made zero dollars and zero cents. But it did further my education, so to speak.

My next serious attempt was in a 7' by 7' room with a 1000w HPS and a 400w MH on a Sun Circle light mover. I was using (3) 4' flourescent fixtures for clone/veg.

After that i grew in a 7' by 15' flower room with (2) 1000w HPS and (1) 1000w MH... the clone shelves used a total of (9) 4' 2 bulb flourescent fixtures.

And the current setup is (5) 1000w HPS in a 13' by 15' flower room and (12) 4' flourescent fixtures over the clone/veg shelves.
.


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## Old Frog (Apr 3, 2009)

All the same strain?

Nice bio by the way. Portrait of the artist as a young man...


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## DaGambler (Apr 3, 2009)

Old Frog said:


> All the same strain?
> 
> Nice bio by the way. Portrait of the artist as a young man...


nah. lost hundreds of dollars a dozen years ago to all the major named seed companies... only one ever got the package through. so i stuck with Gypsy Nirvana for a while. then their package got me the special government letter as well. so this time i skipped over to having an Attitude.
.


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## Old Frog (Apr 3, 2009)

Did they deliver?


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## DaGambler (Apr 3, 2009)

Old Frog said:


> Did they deliver?


shore did. though i would always choose to pay extra for "stealth" delivery.
.


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## GrowTech (Apr 3, 2009)

surprised i havent made it into this thread yet. looking good dawg


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## Mammath (Apr 3, 2009)

Now that's a pic, nice one Gambler. Lookin real good mate.


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## southern homegrower (Apr 3, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> the chick in the first attachment is the one ur talking about. take a good look. (click on large image for sharper picture) doesn't look like a dude to me. i stand by my statement, you've never been with a chick that hot (or perhaps any chick at all). First thing you do is bring negativity to my thread by claiming i'm gay or some shite. If you need a parting shot, feel free to take one, then please be a better man than i think you are... and grace my thread with your presence no further.
> .


i thought ur avatars were cool. dont look like no man.would someone stop justatokers mouth from running i would but my zipper is stuck


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## GrowTech (Apr 3, 2009)

southern homegrower said:


> i thought ur avatars were cool. dont look like no man.would someone stop justatokers mouth from running i would but my zipper is stuck


Seriously. justatoker is being an ultra-mega-troll...

who gives a fuck about gamblers avatar?

I think it's a little "grow room jealousy"


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## GrowTech (Apr 3, 2009)

Hey, justatoker just recieved his final infraction. That's 5 in the 4 months he has been a member here. So it looks like the system banned him. Good riddance. *This is why we show respect to forum member and not accumulate infractions.* 

Anyways, nice grow


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## DodgeDread (Apr 3, 2009)

Nice dude, looks like a very organised setup, i'll come back later and read the whole thread


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## Thundercat (Apr 3, 2009)

Very nice bio gambler, you've come along ways in the last 15 years. I hope that 10 more from now, I'm well down that road of experience. I've been growing on and off for about 5 years now,and have along ways to go.


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## 420weedman (Apr 3, 2009)

15 years ... holy shit ... i think im at 6 months now


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## shnkrmn (Apr 3, 2009)

Very arty lol.



DaGambler said:


> 40 Days (Flower) Clone Room Update
> 
> [IN THE VERY DRAMATIC BLACK AND WHITE ORIGINAL LITHOGRAPHS]
> 
> ...


----------



## DaGambler (Apr 4, 2009)

GrowTech said:


> Seriously. justatoker is being an ultra-mega-troll...
> 
> who gives a fuck about gamblers avatar?
> 
> I think it's a little "grow room jealousy"


welcome  yah, i'm not sure i'd really want to be the guy in my avatar... if you look real close up on his forehead i think it says something like, "Property Of Jolene" heheh. wonder why the name jolene has a "jo" in it...

wish i could say i feel bad about the guy being banned if he was... but he's one of only 3 people that i ever -rep'd after reading several of his disturbing posts. ah well.
.


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## Thundercat (Apr 4, 2009)

Ah thanks for posting a bigger picture of that, I was wondering what all that said! Also I wouldn't feel bad about that guy, he was a dick. lol talk to ya latta gambler


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## DaGambler (Apr 5, 2009)

$15 Score.

found multiple packs of 2' foot bamboo stakes (25 per pack) for a buck a pack at the -Dollar Tree-. got 15 packs. also found a few packs in poor condition at lowes for 3 bucks a pack... which i returned after finding the cheaper deal.

i was contemplating paying 75.00 + 15.00 shipping on Ebay ... for about 75 stakes less.

went ahead and propped up about 30 more plants. the first 30 that needed propping i just used the DIY plant supports from no-climb fencing.
.


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## DaGambler (Apr 8, 2009)

SAY WORD

So i ended up breeding the Mr. Nice male to two different phenotypes of the auto-flowering White Russian as well as back to a Mr. Nice female. (Just pollinated one branch each on three different females.) Hopefully i'll find a nice Mr. Nice x White Russian that i like (Nice Russian). But if not i'll at least have some different phenotypes of the Mr. Nice x Mr. Nice cross - as i started with only one male and one female. (Though i really liked both of their growth patterns.) 

I've also been "De-Vegging" the flowering girls, as advocated by -raiderman- in his many grow journals; at approximately 20, 30, and 40 days into flower. Each time exposing more bud sites to direct light -- until at 40 days in almost no fan leaves remain. If the light's only going to be used once, i'd rather have it growing a bud than a leaf. Light hitting buds will also promote greater trichome production, which are particularly sensitive to UVB light waves... which is why i will be switching the center bulb to a 1000w Metal Halide Conversion bulb (around 110,000 lumens) later today (at about 42 days into flowering). I'll report back on whether or not it seems to make a difference. It may be as simple as comparing two sides of the same bud -- which is equi-distant from both the MH and one of the HPS lamps. The side that has the most trichomes ... wins. 
.


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## raiderman (Apr 8, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> SAY WORD
> 
> So i ended up breeding the Mr. Nice male to two different phenotypes of the auto-flowering White Russian as well as back to a Mr. Nice female. (Just pollinated one branch each on three different females.) Hopefully i'll find a nice Mr. Nice x White Russian that i like (Nice Russian). But if not i'll at least have some different phenotypes of the Mr. Nice x Mr. Nice cross - as i started with only one male and one female. (Though i really liked both of their growth patterns.)
> 
> ...


 ns selection,that sounds like the perfect match,lol. wats up bro.. i guess i can stik my head up now,, its always some thin ,huh.,lol.i'm watchin..


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## Thundercat (Apr 8, 2009)

That does sounds like you should get some nice beans from them. The "de-vegging" has been my goal all along in my grow, encourage the plants to grow bud sites instead of just fan leaves.


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## DaGambler (Apr 9, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> That does sounds like you should get some nice beans from them. The "de-vegging" has been my goal all along in my grow, encourage the plants to grow bud sites instead of just fan leaves.


ya, i've seen from past grows how you can get just a thin layer of buds on the top if you don't do something to thin the vegetation from the canopy... but i had been following advice (somewhat) that was probably better tailored to outdoor growers; that 'each fan leaf is a factory for bud production' ... which makes sense in an environment with almost unlimited light.
.


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## shnkrmn (Apr 9, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> ya, i've seen from past grows how you can get just a thin layer of buds on the top if you don't do something to thin the vegetation from the canopy... but i had been following advice (somewhat) that was probably better tailored to outdoor growers; that 'each fan leaf is a factory for bud production' ... which makes sense in an environment with almost unlimited light.
> .


I've seriously lollipopped my mothers taking cuttings, ala MrHowardMarks. I'm looking for no popcorn when I flower, just fat tops. I can keep fan leaves, because there's almost nothing beneath them for them to shade out. At least that's my theory.


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## raiderman (Apr 9, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> ya, i've seen from past grows how you can get just a thin layer of buds on the top if you don't do something to thin the vegetation from the canopy... but i had been following advice (somewhat) that was probably better tailored to outdoor growers; that 'each fan leaf is a factory for bud production' ... which makes sense in an environment with almost unlimited light.
> .


lookin at ur las update,,fk theres no end to your growroom,lol, now i'm the jealous one ,damn, lol, maybe soon ,great job...yea i leave som fan leaves on the bottom if there no crowding goin on , jus removing leaf matter from budding sites so they whole plant can mature properly,,,, yea single colas , no popcorn your rite,


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## Thundercat (Apr 9, 2009)

I'm with ya gambler, I've had a few people say that to me, that the fan leaves make the energy, but its not just fan leaves that do, its all the leaves. I think you're gonna end up with some damn nice buds on all your girls. I've trimmed out a bunch of lower center growth on mine where the light isn't gonna be able to reach. I'm gonna do a bit more in another week or 2 , then leave them till the end just trimming things as they die off.


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## DaGambler (Apr 9, 2009)

Pic 1: The Metal Halide Conversion bulb takes center stage. Can you tell where it is by the "color" of the plants? heheh.

Aside from some light trimming, this is pretty much just buds at 42 days in (de-vegged)... with about 3 weeks to go for fattening up and trichome production. Anything over 4 lbs. would be gravy. Next go i'll be shooting for at least 6.

Pic 2: Opposite view of the "I" or "H" formation.

Pic 3 & 4: Just some closer pics w/only the MH running.
.


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## raiderman (Apr 9, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> Pic 1: The Metal Halide Conversion bulb takes center stage. Can you tell where it is by the "color" of the plants? heheh.
> 
> Aside from some light trimming, this is pretty much just buds at 42 days in (de-vegged)... with about 3 weeks to go for fattening up and trichome production. Anything over 4 lbs. would be gravy. Next go i'll be shooting for at least 6.
> 
> ...


 looks like a bumper crop to me ,, gd. luk on your total, ,,,Do yu know anything about ozone generator? are they worth the money?


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## fdd2blk (Apr 9, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> Pic 1: The Metal Halide Conversion bulb takes center stage. Can you tell where it is by the "color" of the plants? heheh.
> 
> Aside from some light trimming, this is pretty much just buds at 42 days in (de-vegged)... with about 3 weeks to go for fattening up and trichome production. Anything over 4 lbs. would be gravy. Next go i'll be shooting for at least 6.
> 
> ...


what the .............. ?


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## DaGambler (Apr 9, 2009)

raiderman said:


> looks like a bumper crop to me ,, gd. luk on your total, ,,,Do yu know anything about ozone generator? are they worth the money?


worth every penny. you control their performance exactly. mine hangs at the highest point in the room and comes on for 15 min. out of every hour... except every 6th hour where it comes on for 30 mins. (due to a recent increase in the need for odor control). in my own home i smell nothing. if i did i would just turn it on a little longer. just don't use one in a closet and always use a timer.
.


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## DaGambler (Apr 9, 2009)

fdd2blk said:


> what the .............. ?


well, i'm afraid ur just gonna have to start from the beginning 

heheh, alright, i'll make it easier for you:

the theory is that flower production is dwindling down at this point (HPS very good for flower production) but that trichome production is now going to be reaching greater intensity (MH -may- be better for trichome production as it leans more toward the UVB in the spectrum). In my last grow room i had (1) HPS 1000w on either side of a MH 1000w. Worked well. If i'm unable to differentiate greater trichome production under the MH bulb, then next crop i'll use HPS exclusively.
.


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## fdd2blk (Apr 9, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> well, i'm afraid ur just gonna have to start from the beginning
> 
> heheh, alright, i'll make it easier for you:
> 
> ...


i've heard all that. i'm hanging my 3 HPS's, at the end i was thinking of throwing an MH in the middle in place of one of them. what i'm trippin' on is the patch of green. is that just the camera? or does it really look like that?


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## 420weedman (Apr 9, 2009)

mmmmmmm...metal halide, mine looked like that when i put it up.
it also makes it easier to see inside the trichs 

this de-vegging your doing .... just taking off fan leaves in front of buds i guess ?


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## raiderman (Apr 9, 2009)

420weedman said:


> mmmmmmm...metal halide, mine looked like that when i put it up.
> it also makes it easier to see inside the trichs
> 
> this de-vegging your doing .... just taking off fan leaves in front of buds i guess ?


wouldnt ya want more than the top bud mature?my mh not far from mine either,, the plants only recognize the nearest light anyway, great job DG on the manicuring ,youll notice some strains go real crazy wen manicured , doubling at times , swelling enormous bud from top to bottom , no undergrowth.this bluecheese got my hea d bumpin,, had wee wee downtown ,lol, those of you lookin for a good negative ua ,use TOXIC, dehydrated urine,, wat a great idea. worx like a charm , bot a sok full,lol.later DG.great job.


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## 420weedman (Apr 9, 2009)

raiderman said:


> ,lol, those of you lookin for a good negative ua ,use TOXIC, dehydrated urine,, wat a great idea. worx like a charm , bot a sok full,lol.later DG.great job.




i understood the first part ...


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## southern homegrower (Apr 9, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> worth every penny. you control their performance exactly. mine hangs at the highest point in the room and comes on for 15 min. out of every hour... except every 6th hour where it comes on for 30 mins. (due to a recent increase in the need for odor control). in my own home i smell nothing. if i did i would just turn it on a little longer. just don't use one in a closet and always use a timer.
> .


i was thinking about getting a ozone generator. could u recomend one. my room is 7ft7 by 4ft7 by 7ft high or is it to small. i am realy concerned about the smell houses are to close together


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## Thundercat (Apr 9, 2009)

Looks very sweet gambler I don't think getting your 4 lbs will be a problem man. Those girls look like they are really putting on some weight too!


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## DaGambler (Apr 9, 2009)

fdd2blk said:


> i've heard all that. i'm hanging my 3 HPS's, at the end i was thinking of throwing an MH in the middle in place of one of them. what i'm trippin' on is the patch of green. is that just the camera? or does it really look like that?


Ha Ha...

naw, its just cuz the HPS is reddish light and the MH is bluish light  so i didn't bother to color correct the photo like usual.
.


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## DaGambler (Apr 9, 2009)

420weedman said:


> mmmmmmm...metal halide, mine looked like that when i put it up.
> it also makes it easier to see inside the trichs
> 
> this de-vegging your doing .... just taking off fan leaves in front of buds i guess ?


ya it brings a different kind of light to the room, i've glanced that way a couple times now and wondered if the roof got lifted off the room 'cuz it's so bluish in there now.

devegging: at 20 days anything blocking upper 1/2 budsites. at 30 days anything blocking any budsite. at 40 days basically all fan leaves are gone on the plant even if they aren't blocking anything.
.


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## DaGambler (Apr 9, 2009)

southern homegrower said:


> i was thinking about getting a ozone generator. could u recomend one. my room is 7ft7 by 4ft7 by 7ft high or is it to small. i am realy concerned about the smell houses are to close together


Just look for a good price on a Ozone Jr. (Also called Ozone 1000 I think - HTG and many other places have them.) i'm using a Ozonator3000. you'll still want it on a timer... start at no more than 15 min. per hour every couple hours or less and go from there.
.


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## southern homegrower (Apr 9, 2009)

thanks man .i wasnt sure witch one to get


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## DodgeDread (Apr 9, 2009)

yep you've convinced me i need one too, that smells getting worse outside lately. I'm either gonna get this one : 

http://www.basementlighting.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1&Product_Code=OK03

or this one 

:http://www.hg-hydroponics.co.uk/hydrozone-ozone-generator-216-p.asp

not sure which will be more effective for a 7x14x7 room. 
any ideas?


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## bigjesse1922 (Apr 9, 2009)

I just read through the entire thread and I am excited to see your results man!

Subscribed and rep+


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## southern homegrower (Apr 9, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> Just look for a good price on a Ozone Jr. (Also called Ozone 1000 I think - HTG and many other places have them.) i'm using a Ozonator3000. you'll still want it on a timer... start at no more than 15 min. per hour every couple hours or less and go from there.
> .


do i put it in my growroom or does it go in the ductwork


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## DaGambler (Apr 10, 2009)

DodgeDread said:


> yep you've convinced me i need one too, that smells getting worse outside lately. I'm either gonna get this one :
> 
> http://www.basementlighting.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1&Product_Code=OK03
> 
> ...


ya, i've been told to avoid the 'corona discharge' models... that they don't work nearly as well as the other type. i'd also recommend a OzoneJr.1000 up to a Ozonator 3000 for that size space. i'd stay away from the "C.A.P." model as it isn't easily controlled by a timer.

http://www.htgsupply.com/products.asp?categoryID=9&subcategoryID=33
.

.


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## DaGambler (Apr 10, 2009)

southern homegrower said:


> do i put it in my growroom or does it go in the ductwork


as long as ur not sleeping and growing in the same room... in the grow room is just fine. ozone falls so you want to place it as high up in the room as possible (attach it to the ceiling) upwind from your plants.

if you were moving your air to another room to be treated (perhaps before being exhausted outside) then after or in the ducting would be fine as well. it would need time to work in that setup... so it would have to come on for a few minutes before the air is exhausted.

i am running a constant "500 cfm" home depot inline exhaust booster fan to draw fresh air into the flower room day and night (it exhausts the ceiling air into the attic... which then exits the roof directly outside. So basically i just make sure that even when i am in the flower room standing right next to my plants i cannot smell them.

i've grown pounds of bud per harvest in the middle of a ghetto trailer court with trailers 10 to 30 feet away on all sides... and police officers canvassing the ghetto trailer park for criminals. I did this with an ozone generator 3000 alone, in the flower room. (approximately a 7 by 15 foot space with 15 minutes on and 45 minutes off.) plus i think it helps to stave off powdery mildew. at least, i've never had a problem with that... so it could just be anecdotal.
.


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## Old Frog (Apr 10, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> i've grown pounds of bud per harvest in the middle of a ghetto trailer court with trailers 10 to 30 feet away on all sides...
> .


Wait...you were in Kansas in 2001 as well!?


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## DaGambler (Apr 10, 2009)

Old Frog said:


> Wait...you were in Kansas in 2001 as well!?


florida trailer park actually. and dat ain't Kansas Toto. did some growery in Iowa trailer park too. cold as ass up there. boo / hiss. i hate trailer parks   i got no problem with living in a trailer out in the country... that's a whole nuther story.
.


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## Old Frog (Apr 10, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> florida trailer park actually.
> .


Not so into the Florida thang, 'fraid. Gimme the Pac NW any day. . . 

Trailers are a fantastically economical way to grow massive amounts of weed. Definitely not without some drawbacks though when in a park of any kind.


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## southern homegrower (Apr 10, 2009)

thanks for the info. i am in florida. have allways lived out with no houses around me but now live up town and it sucks


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Apr 10, 2009)

sick grow bro.....all this time I been skipping you journal cause the "hempy" part turned me off..LOL ...late, but better late than never...subscribed


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## DaGambler (Apr 11, 2009)

Dr. Greenhorn said:


> sick grow bro.....all this time I been skipping you journal cause the "hempy" part turned me off..LOL ...late, but better late than never...subscribed


heheh. its just like any manual hydroponic setup... could just as well be coco or rockwool cubes or hygroton... though i'm personally in favor of pure perlite at this point. If it were an automated hydroponic system then i might have to consider a different medium... but i could see pure perlite still working with ebb and flo as well as drip irrigation, just not so much aeroponics or deep water culture. there are a surprising number or people on RIU doing different types of 'soil-less' potting mixtures... BAYAREAMEDICAL and raiderman and Thundercat and shrnkrmn are just a few that have been going a while now.

but welcome to the grow... and i believe that there are good things to come  i have some changes in the loop and on the drawing board.
.


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Apr 11, 2009)

right on! gonna learn hella lot here...I'm strictly outdoors  newbie to all this indoor operations you guys got going on here...SOLID..  looks like I picked the right place to learn! good luck .....as if you need it


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## Stoney Jake (Apr 11, 2009)

for sure
this is a hell of a grow. The best part about it is that its different from anything I have tried. Oh and its fucking huge!
Looking great man


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## Thundercat (Apr 11, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> heheh. its just like any manual hydroponic setup... could just as well be coco or rockwool cubes or hygroton... though i'm personally in favor of pure perlite at this point. If it were an automated hydroponic system then i might have to consider a different medium... but i could see pure perlite still working with ebb and flo as well as drip irrigation, just not so much aeroponics or deep water culture. there are a surprising number or people on RIU doing different types of 'soil-less' potting mixtures... BAYAREAMEDICAL and raiderman and Thundercat and shrnkrmn are just a few that have been going a while now.
> 
> but welcome to the grow... and i believe that there are good things to come  i have some changes in the loop and on the drawing board.
> .


Hey gambler good lookin out man, thanks for the name drop bro!! I am however using soil at the moment. Its soil with alot of perlite in it, but soil.


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## DaGambler (Apr 11, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> Hey gambler good lookin out man, thanks for the name drop bro!! I am however using soil at the moment. Its soil with alot of perlite in it, but soil.


woops  weren't you doing Hempy for awhile?

maybe u've used perlite with your shrooms  i see that people do that when they are 'casing' them, i guess. damn't man, one of these days i'll get more motivated and hop on that train. right now i'd need some things i don't have though... like a refridgerator... and a hotplate... etc. the only electric i run is for the cpu and the hot water heater just before taking a shower to reduce electrical usage.

but a country boy can survive (heheh) OH .... A COUNTRY BOY CAN SURVIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4s0nzsU1Wg


.


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## bigjesse1922 (Apr 11, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> woops  weren't you doing Hempy for awhile?
> 
> maybe u've used perlite with your shrooms  i see that people do that when they are 'casing' them, i guess. damn't man, one of these days i'll get more motivated and hop on that train. right now i'd need some things i don't have though... like a refridgerator... and a hotplate... etc. the only electric i run is for the cpu and the hot water heater just before taking a shower to reduce electrical usage.
> .


Smart. I was wondering what precautions you take...I am paranoid about running my 1k, let alone all of a $600 bill!

I pay $120 ish per month, but way less bang than you got lol


----------



## dontpanic (Apr 11, 2009)

hey if u havent tryed mr.nice u better be ready cuz i have some of that right now and ill tell u somthin...its one of the best i have smoked in a verry long time...keep up the good work its looking gREAT


----------



## DaGambler (Apr 12, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> Smart. I was wondering what precautions you take...I am paranoid about running my 1k, let alone all of a $600 bill!
> 
> I pay $120 ish per month, but way less bang than you got lol


after asking for a reduced electrical rate... my last bill was just under 400... so that puts about 1k into electrical costs. i can live with that.
.


----------



## DaGambler (Apr 12, 2009)

dontpanic said:


> hey if u havent tryed mr.nice u better be ready cuz i have some of that right now and ill tell u somthin...its one of the best i have smoked in a verry long time...keep up the good work its looking gREAT


i've heard good things about the G13xHashPlant. i can't complain after stripping fan leaves here and there ... with latex gloves the flowers and trichomes form finger hash. quickly realized you can't take real big hits of finger hash and expect to hold it in 
.


----------



## bigjesse1922 (Apr 12, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> after asking for a reduced electrical rate... my last bill was just under 400... so that puts about 1k into electrical costs. i can live with that.
> .


Thats good news! I read you had asked about it. Just out of curiousity, what kind of interactions do you have with them discussing it?

Do you mind talking about it on here? If not, maybe a PM, if you want.

I am just wondering, do they ask you why you're using so much power? Just curious for that story...

Thanks bro.


----------



## Old Frog (Apr 12, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> I am just wondering, do they ask you why you're using so much power? Just curious for that story...


DaG, bigjesse, if I may: My bill's $580/mo right now and I've had it as high as $700; used to pay my bill in crisp $20s at the power company office counter. No one ever raised an eyelash, blushed, grimaced, or anything. 

I know this all could vary wildly from state to state, county to county, and township to township, but in my neck of the woods it's not something that alone is indicative of illegal activity at all. My neighbour (the closest one resembling such) has a full metal fabrication shop in his garage and he pays twice what I do a month for elec. 

There're people in Mcmansions consuming $600/mo without blinking, and without doing anything illicit whatsoever. I don't lose sleep at night over this aspect of the business, that's for sure.


----------



## DaGambler (Apr 12, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> Thats good news! I read you had asked about it. Just out of curiousity, what kind of interactions do you have with them discussing it? ... I am just wondering, do they ask you why you're using so much power? Just curious for that story...
> 
> Thanks bro.


Just call ur local provider and say... hey, look i'm paying xx.xx per kwH and two other people that i talked to are paying yy.yy or less per kwH. So if i look around are you going to be able to match a lower rate when i find one? "Uh, no sir, we can't do that, but we can give you the lowest rate that we are offering right now... which is zz.zz (even less than your friends are paying !!)." They aren't going to call you and tell you ur being ripped off and that they would be happy to take 35 percent less per killowat hour. You have to call them after finding someone else that is paying less... so ask around. It's like moving your credit card bills to a cheaper interest rate (or threatening to do so).

I used less than 4000 kwH last month... that makes me feel that i am still pretty 'safe'. i have heard about cooperative efforts between the police dept. and electrical companies whereby they choose some arbitrary usage amount, like 4000 kwH per month, and print out a list of people that use more than that as possible suspects. Something to consider, i guess.

(EDIT: and like OldFrog said, it isn't hard to have a high electric bill. one of the first things i did when i moved into the current location is insulate the hell out of the place. windows, water heater, extra attic insulation, skirting (5 bedroom mobile home), tops and bottom of doorways that lead to mostly unused rooms. almost all electric panel switches stay off. the lights are almost all air cooled. the ballasts are located remotely under the house. etc.)
.


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## southern homegrower (Apr 12, 2009)

i have freinds that are in to aquariums and some run several metal halide plus shit loads of big water pumps they say it is surpriseing how high there elc. bills are.


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## DaGambler (Apr 18, 2009)

heheh.

Decided this journal needs more pics you don't have to 'click' on... but don't get used to it, 'cuz it's entirely too much work to post pics this way 

Pic 1: Helicopter view of the flower room at day 54 with 7 or more days to go.







Pic 2: panning down...







Pic 3: the helicopter has landed.







Pic 4: ALIEN INVASION !!! Turn away if you are squeamish!







(If You Pan Back Up Again... the Helicopter Will Rise !!  )
.


----------



## fdd2blk (Apr 18, 2009)

looking good.


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## 420weedman (Apr 18, 2009)

wow man, some higher quality pics this time ... fucking beautiful 
id like to see the HD pics next


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## chunkymunkey33 (Apr 18, 2009)

Great setup Gambler. +rep, thanks for sharing with us. Hope you got a friend to help with the trimming....either that or take a couple of days off work. Excellent job.


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## Thundercat (Apr 18, 2009)

Love the pics man, those girls are looking heavy!!! Very sweet, its been awesome being along for the ride man!


----------



## Dr. Greenhorn (Apr 18, 2009)

looking pretty damn good gambler!!


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Apr 18, 2009)

fucking awesome is more better put...


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## DaGambler (Apr 18, 2009)

420weedman said:


> wow man, some higher quality pics this time ... fucking beautiful
> id like to see the HD pics next


ya, i also want to see the HD pics... not real happy with my picture quality at the moment. sigh.
.


----------



## DaGambler (Apr 18, 2009)

chunkymunkey33 said:


> Great setup Gambler. +rep, thanks for sharing with us. Hope you got a friend to help with the trimming....either that or take a couple of days off work. Excellent job.


ya, i'll either make a weekend of it... or just start at the plant tops and work my way down, across a few days, by order of completion. though i'm looking to yank about a lb. next weeked as i have a 'timeline' that i'm working with. A few of the auto-flowering white russians as well as the durban poison should be ready by then. and i'll be yanking the smallest durban poison plant today, just to get 'back into practice'.

(EDIT: so i manicured the buddies on the smallest plant / container in the room and got about 72g which will dry to about 18g. The manicured buds go right into a paper bag on 'open-weave' shelving in the clone room for drying. The buds will be turned once a day. When the outsides start to get crispy then the bag tops will be closed up. When they have reached the target weight of just over 1/4 the manicured wet weight... then they will go into jars and tupperware for the final curing. Even if every other container in the room only put out 18g's i'd still pull 3 lbs... so i don't think i'll have trouble hitting the 4 lb. mark. I'll hope for more  )
.


----------



## chunkymunkey33 (Apr 18, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> ya, i'll either make a weekend of it... or just start at the plant tops and work my way down, across a few days, by order of completion. though i'm looking to yank about a lb. next weeked as i have a 'timeline' that i'm working with. A few of the auto-flowering white russians as well as the durban poison should be ready by then. and i'll be yanking one of the smaller durban poisons today, just to get 'back into practice'.
> .


Well good luck. You get a nice little bit of finger hash. You planning on making any with the trimmings or are you just disgaurding them?


----------



## DaGambler (Apr 18, 2009)

chunkymunkey33 said:


> Well good luck. You get a nice little bit of finger hash. You planning on making any with the trimmings or are you just disgaurding them?


ya, i'll be nibbling on the finger-hash as i go, i'm sure (confessions of a marijunana-eater)  and i'll try to stash some of it back for smoking as i have already done.

i'd love to make butane honey oil some time with a Honey Bee extractor. but right now i'll stick with the old 'bagging guidelines': anything covered in trichomes goes into the bag  so that won't leave much worthwhile trim. we'll see.
.


----------



## shnkrmn (Apr 18, 2009)

I like your particular brown bag sequence. I'm looking to go beyond glass jars next few weeks. Love the pix with the MH light in the middle of the HPSs. ZBeautiful.

kiss-ass


----------



## Dr. Greenhorn (Apr 18, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> (EDIT: so i manicured the buddies on the smallest plant / container in the room and got about 72g which will dry to about 18g. The manicured buds go right into a paper bag on 'open-weave' shelving in the clone room for drying. The buds will be turned once a day. When the outsides start to get crispy then the bag tops will be closed up. When they reach the target weight of 1/4 the manicured wet weight... they will go into jars and tupperware for the final curing. Even if every other container in the room only put out 18g's i'd still pull 3 lbs... so i don't think i'll have trouble hitting the 4 lb. mark. I'll hope for more  )
> .


 Solid bro!!! way to finish off strong!I'll harvest mine the same way down the road.........


----------



## Thundercat (Apr 18, 2009)

Sounds great man, looks like hitting your goal shouldn't be to hard!!


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## DaGambler (Apr 18, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> Sounds great man, looks like hitting your goal shouldn't be to hard!!


ya, my expectations weren't out of this world seeing how this is the first go-round with this setup... that and i had to chop about 30 of the plants... and was down to about 3 lights for 1/3 of the flower time due to a ballast problem. it'll take a couple crops to dial everything in. for example, i just over-nuted the current clone batch again (simultaneously jacking the pH way too low) but they will recover over time... just needing another week or two in the flower room to veg. once they get there.
.


----------



## Thundercat (Apr 18, 2009)

It always takes time to dial stuff in. My current grow went from trying to get 2-3 harvests from clones, to just this one harvest. So no dialing in is gonna happen, but next time. I'll be able to go perpetual, and get shit figured out.


----------



## maryjane2029 (Apr 18, 2009)

perpetual is the way to go man, it is very hard getting it started right tho eh? My problem is that I am doing a seed run, so everything feels like it is going in slow motion because there is room I want to fill up but cant b/c I dont have the seeds yet, o the woes of growing eh?

Peace/Love/Joy


----------



## theloadeddragon (Apr 18, 2009)

wish I had the resources to do something like this.... looking forward to harvest pics,


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## Old Frog (Apr 19, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> .


Looks simply awesome! Clean and healthy grow. You'll get your target yield without trying.  

Pics of the drying rack would be cool.


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## DaGambler (Apr 19, 2009)

Old Frog said:


> Looks simply awesome! Clean and healthy grow. You'll get your target yield without trying.
> 
> Pics of the drying rack would be cool.


The shelves for drying have been put up in the Clone / Veg. room as this room is already maintained at optimal drying conditions. Only one small paper bag of buds is drying at the moment... about 1/4 will be harvested this weekend... the other 3/4 the weekend following. The next generation of Clones will go into the Flower room shortly there-after.

INTRODUCING: My First Ever YouTube Video 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BzZhNLu9BU

if a picture is worth 1000 words... hopefully a video is worth a few pictures. Sorry about the shakiness and resolution, etc. but do please check it out... maybe even comment on or rate the video. Thanks.

-DaGambler
.


----------



## danksmoker77 (Apr 19, 2009)

HOLY SHEEEEEEITE!!!!

tHATS HOW YA DO IT!!!!!!!!!!

U AINT F'N AROUND DUDE NICE JOB

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK


----------



## Old Frog (Apr 19, 2009)

Sick viddy DaG.  

That's definitely more than an ounce per plant average, and several thousand words worth of footage.  Those colas look beefy!


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## Boneman (Apr 20, 2009)

Looking great dagambler  You liking that hempy or what?


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## DaGambler (Apr 20, 2009)

ya, i likes it a lot...

i'm somewhat perplexed though as to why i don't seem to have any 'monster' colas. perhaps its cause most of the plants are a bit more bush-like... other than that i have to wonder if pH may have slowed development at some point, so i'ma have to start testing Run-Off pH more (at least some) next time around. Other than that... my girls can go 3 days or longer without a watering. So i only have to water twice a week after setting the nutrient concentration - and that only takes like 10-15 minutes. So Hempy is very little effort. That and i plan on re-using the media, which is nicer than trying to dispose of bags upon bags o' soil innervated w/marijunana roots.
.


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## 420weedman (Apr 20, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> The shelves for drying have been put up in the Clone / Veg. room as this room is already maintained at optimal drying conditions. Only one small paper bag of buds is drying at the moment... about 1/4 will be harvested this weekend... the other 3/4 the weekend following. The next generation of Clones will go into the Flower room shortly there-after.
> 
> INTRODUCING: My First Ever YouTube Video
> 
> ...



fucking nice vid man 

do you live in the same house ?


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## Thundercat (Apr 20, 2009)

Very sweet Video man, I watched it last night, but I was trippin, so I didn't feel like posting. It was sweet as hell to watch though man. Did I see you have the buckets raised on the sides of the lights to get the plants closer?


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## DaGambler (Apr 21, 2009)

420weedman said:


> fucking nice vid man
> 
> do you live in the same house ?


heheh, ya, those two bedrooms are just for the grow... another bedroom i use as a walk-in closet... and the fourth bedroom i actually sleep in ... with at least a couple dogs and (right now) some puppies that i breed. the living room usually has a couple more mattresses in it for the rest of the dogs. all my dogs weight at least 150 lbs. 
.


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## DaGambler (Apr 21, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> Very sweet Video man, I watched it last night, but I was trippin, so I didn't feel like posting. It was sweet as hell to watch though man. Did I see you have the buckets raised on the sides of the lights to get the plants closer?


good eye. yah, except for the auto-flowering corner... the plants are raised up (kinda like stadium) at the end of all the runs to make better use of the light. i'd rather that the light hit plants than the walls.
.


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## maryjane2029 (Apr 21, 2009)

how much weight are you pulling off of your autos, and what strains?

Peace/Love/Joy


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## Stoney Jake (Apr 21, 2009)

great video man

thats a fucking sea of green right there. Very nice


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## Thundercat (Apr 21, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> good eye. yah, except for the auto-flowering corner... the plants are raised up (kinda like stadium) at the end of all the runs to make better use of the light. i'd rather that the light hit plants than the walls.
> .



I dig it man, seems like a great idea. I've got my smaller plants right under my lights, and then the larger sativas around the edges of them to catch all the light they can.


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## DaGambler (Apr 21, 2009)

maryjane2029 said:


> how much weight are you pulling off of your autos, and what strains?
> 
> Peace/Love/Joy


i've only harvested 3 plants total so far... 2 were auto's (White Russian) ... one was 19g dry estimated and the other is 32g dry estimated (1/4 the manicured bud weight). They weren't sold as auto's... i just happened to get some of that phenotype. The 19g auto is prolly the smallest auto. The third plant harvested was (hopefully) the smallest plant overall, a durban poison that only hit 18g dry estimated. i'm hoping for a few more well over the 28g mark... but harvest will wait till next weekend (one fourth of it) and the weekend following (all those remaining). I'm still seeing good trichome production at this point... so it would be a shame to cut things short. After-all, leaves and flowers hardly matter at all... they just give the trichomes some place to grow 
.


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## theloadeddragon (Apr 21, 2009)

All I can do is nod my head....


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Apr 22, 2009)

just checked your you tube vid....bro, that's sweet!! like the tunes too!


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## BAYAREAMEDICAL (Apr 23, 2009)

The vid looks dope.....................


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## DaGambler (Apr 23, 2009)

BAYAREAMEDICAL said:


> The vid looks dope.....................


thanks man, ur video is what inspired me to make my own 

you should put ur video in you signature like i did... at least until you've made a new one for the new grow 
.


----------



## raiderman (Apr 25, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> thanks man, ur video is what inspired me to make my own
> 
> you should put ur video in you signature like i did... at least until you've made a new one for the new grow
> .


 give toke report wen its dry,lol.


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## boston george 54 (Apr 27, 2009)

nice grow 

+rep


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## just L (Apr 27, 2009)

man i love the video, ive been spreading the word. you've inspired me, time to go bigger

-rwells363-


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## BAYAREAMEDICAL (Apr 29, 2009)

I took your idea with hangin the fans up with the hook things


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## bigjesse1922 (Apr 29, 2009)

I bet you are busy!

May your plants be heavy.


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## GypsyBush (May 1, 2009)

Fucken A Dog...

Nice, very nice...

+rep and then some...

I just uploaded some pics of my humble op...

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/167596-gypsys-picture-depot-9.html


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## raiderman (May 4, 2009)

wats up DG? hows the smoke? hope everythings ok.see ya bro.


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## Dr. Greenhorn (May 4, 2009)

Its been awhile bro....everything good?! hope sopeace..


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## theloadeddragon (May 4, 2009)

should be too busy trimmin,


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## DaGambler (May 10, 2009)

raiderman said:


> wats up DG? hows the smoke? hope everythings ok.see ya bro.


 
right, right... bussier/busier than a fugg'in bee...

SMOKE REPORT:

Durban Poison - A racing cerebral high that leaves you a bit drained after a good couple hours.

Mr. Nice (G13xHashPlant) - Pure indica cross that deffinitely encourages a full-on relaxation. Sandalwood flavor.

White Widow - A nice mellow high, not quite as deeply meditative as the Mr. Nice. But a good feelings weed.

White Russian (AK47xWhiteWidow)- 9 different females / phenotypes... Ranges in smell and taste from spicy to grape candy to 'what the fug chemical is that ?!' Can be an 'initimidating' high... are you ready to go on a cerebral sativa rush for 30 min. to 2 hours (depending on how much you smoke) and then to get serious indica couch-lock munchies ?

Total Harvest: about what i expected given some of the set-backs. just under 4.5 lbs. I'll post a photo update very shortly with some indications on how i hope to remedy that. Avg. yeild per plant was right at 1 ounce. The smallest was 14g dry. The largest was around 50g dry.

Buds were harvested between day 60-65. Immediately manicured and placed in open paper lunch sacks on 'open weave' shelving. The buds were 'tossed' once daily. The final weight was determined by drying to 1/4 the manicured bud weight. This seems like a very accurate way to do things. If you are 1 to 3 grams over the 1/4 dry weight you'll be able to tell that it doesn't burn right. If you are more than a gram or two under the 1/4 weight you'll start to see the buds getting overly crisp. The buds were then placed immediately into plastic sandwich bags. Dry time was approx. 5-7 days.
.


----------



## Dr. Greenhorn (May 10, 2009)

nice gambler....good to see all is well


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## Thundercat (May 10, 2009)

Sounds great man, can't wait to see some post harvest pics man!!


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## DaGambler (May 10, 2009)

just L said:


> man i love the video, ive been spreading the word. you've inspired me, time to go bigger
> 
> -rwells363-


 
spread the word far and wide my brotha... (heh heh) and sow the seed. carefully.


.


----------



## DaGambler (May 10, 2009)

BAYAREAMEDICAL said:


> I took your idea with hangin the fans up with the hook things


i like the rubber straps. the fans are loud enough without mounting them to something solid. that and i have some chains above the straps so that i can lower and raise them along with the lights.
.


----------



## DaGambler (May 10, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> Sounds great man, can't wait to see some post harvest pics man!!


 
Well, my friend, i may dissapoint you there. No macro function on my camera... and of the 72 plants... i didn't really get too attached to any of them. There are some nice Bud Shots in the YouTube video in my signature... otherwise, it's all been bagged and tagged, D.O.A.

_ P-H-O-T-O _ _ _ U P D A T E _

Pic 1: FreshStart - The Flower Room (13' x 15') empty. Finally got around to dropping the 5th ballast below the house... temperatures are back in check for now. Have an extra 8k btu a.c. to supplement the 13k btu, if necessary, though i'd have to run 75' of extension cord from the other side of the house at this point to actually run it.  Added a couple of feet to all the hanging chains so i can get the lights right on top of 'em from the start this time. Flipped a couple of the CoolTubes 180 degrees so that the 'loose' end of the bulb is downwind... so that they will bobble up and down less.

Pic 2: GoodHome - The new batch of clones sitting on top of the Hempy Buckets. All they want is a good home. Last time i ended up running (72) 3 gal. containers with 86 plants total. (Some pots had two plants.) This time i will be running (108 ) 3 gal. containers with a bit over 216 plants. (All containers have at least two plants.) I predict a pitiful harvest from at least two of the buckets... as they contain a handful of auto-flowering plants that didn't want to re-veg.

Pic 3: Alien-Invasion - This is what happens when you use 'Blue Mountain - Super Plant Tonic'. These little fellas colonize your root system. The plants are sensitive to fertilizer shortly there-after so be careful feeding. I do think it may help my plants to utiize the organic nutes... in the fairly sterile medium of perlite. The initial clone media is M.G. Seed Starting mix (mostly sphagnum and a bit of perlite).

Pic 4: Trans-Plantation - Is there ever enough time in the world ?! Some days i only transplanted like 10-15 containers and then gave up for the day. It took me a week, which is very sad, 'cuz its really not that hard slipping them into some perlite. The perlite is the same. I didn't even bother to rinse it, though i did flush during flowering while the last girls were using it.

Pic 5: Lil-Girl - One of the larger clones. Wish they all looked like these two... if they did, i'd prolly flip the switch to 12/12 already. But many have yet to show some re-invigorated veg. growth after the hurting that i put them through toward the end of their stay under the flouro's. I will be 'upgrading' to include another 1k HPS lamp in the center of the clone room so that they can veg. for the last 2-3 weeks under that before going into the flower room... having spent the first 5-6 weeks under the flouro's. I would like shorten the turn-over to every 73 days. It is currently around 90 days... with plants growing vegetatively 2-4 weeks in the flower room. Hopefully the new HPS will allow me to flip the switch immediately after transplanting into the 3 gal. containers.

Pic 6: NewBegginings - Look FDD, I swept my dirty floor  and i put a 35 dollar shop-vac in the budget too !! Hopefully i'll be filling this room with clones next weeked and then again the weekend following. I'll pull around 240 ... and hope to use around 216 of 'em. There is a 6' by 6' area in the middle where the new 1k HPS will hang. I splurged and got a working de-humidifier from Lowe's or Home Depot (God Bless both of them). The portable a.c.'s i got on line were a steal, but i've been burnt on two different online de-humidifiers. Hopefully a few tweaks here and there will allow me to pull 6 lbs. from now on... in a couple less weeks. As far as the 'UVB Experiment' went, i can't say that it seemed to help any. So i can't personally recommend switching HPS to MH in the last 3 weeks of flowering (i switched out one of five). Using a light meter under the new clones i quickly jumped back to HPS on all 5 burners. Can't beat 140,000 lumens.
.

.


----------



## DodgeDread (May 10, 2009)

Ha ha same as me, chopped, trimmed, dried and gone!! +rep for an awesome grow man!


----------



## Thundercat (May 10, 2009)

JUst figured it was all pretty when it was done, but I feel ya man. I can't keep much even from my little grow, its gotta get me a new place, and a better set up.


----------



## Thundercat (May 10, 2009)

lol, sorry for the double post, but the next batch looks great. Your off to a damn good start man.


----------



## Mammath (May 10, 2009)

Hell of a turn around G.
Nice work.
All the best for this one mate.


----------



## GypsyBush (May 11, 2009)

I feel humbled...lol...

Kick Ass man!!!


----------



## 420weedman (May 11, 2009)

pic # 2 , so you wash the soil out and then they go in with just perlite or does the soil go in there too ? 

if you have a walmart near you, thats where the best deal is on dehumid/acs
and its very easy to exchange if they break 
and if its not you just buy a new one, put the old one in the new box and return it.
ahhhhh thats walmart


----------



## danksmoker77 (May 11, 2009)

hey man, good to see everything came out great. I was nerv..... nevermind no need to bring in the negetivity ya dig. Ill definitely be watching the next round also. 

+rep


----------



## DaGambler (May 12, 2009)

420weedman said:


> pic # 2 , so you wash the soil out and then they go in with just perlite or does the soil go in there too ?
> 
> if you have a walmart near you, thats where the best deal is on dehumid/acs
> and its very easy to exchange if they break
> ...


i just transplant the M.G. seed starting mix in 16 oz. cups (almost pure sphagnum and a bit of perlite - basically a 'soil-less' mixture) directly into the pure perlite Hempy Buckets.

Wally-World is deffinitely in my favorite 3 Picks.
.


----------



## DaGambler (May 12, 2009)

danksmoker77 said:


> hey man, good to see everything came out great. I was nerv..... nevermind no need to bring in the negetivity ya dig. Ill definitely be watching the next round also.
> 
> +rep


thanks man. the clones were making me nervous toward the end... flouro's just don't cut it for 9 weeks of growth.

and i'll continue to be a bit nervous till the new gear arrives. an HPS for the clone/veg room ... and another HPS system just for back-up.

i'm anxious to flower them at a shorter height this time around. last time i waited until they were from 14" to 19" inches tall. I'ma try to take all of my clones next weekend and flip the switch. but first i want to line the clone shelving with plastic and make it "drain-to-waste" so that i can get good and sloppy with my watering... and flush them if needed.

thanks for staying tuned  i'll try to keep it interesting. personally, i'm hoping to see if i can pull the same weight per plant (1 oz. average) even when flowering at a shorter height. I'm also hoping that by flowering sooner i will have to lollipop and prune fan leaves less. I'll have to check back into what the average yield was on those containers that had two plants each the last round, but i'm sure it was over 1 oz total per container... so i hope to maintain that trend as well.
.


----------



## raiderman (May 12, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> thanks man. the clones were making me nervous toward the end... flouro's just don't cut it for 9 weeks of growth.
> 
> and i'll continue to be a bit nervous till the new gear arrives. an HPS for the clone/veg room ... and another HPS system just for back-up.
> 
> ...


yea bak up never hurt.lookin great DG. yea i flower at 4inches avg. usually finish two and a haf ft avg.you sure gotta lot goin on.lucky you. i'm not occupied enuff,lol.everything lookin healthy bro. i jus started flowerin my BC today as a matter of .fact. i changed my mind on my B.skunk this time went a head and and doin 2-pacs Dutch passion BB and 4 sensi hashplat seeds.. Hope i get a good fem. ratio.grow on bro.


----------



## DaGambler (May 12, 2009)

raiderman said:


> yea bak up never hurt.lookin great DG. yea i flower at 4inches avg. usually finish two and a haf ft avg.you sure gotta lot goin on.lucky you. i'm not occupied enuff,lol.everything lookin healthy bro. i jus started flowerin my BC today as a matter of .fact. i changed my mind on my B.skunk this time went a head and and doin 2-pacs Dutch passion BB and 4 sensi hashplat seeds.. Hope i get a good fem. ratio.grow on bro.


I'd love to try a whole bunch of different strains. Mail, however, i'm not too fond of.

I did reap about 200 seeds total (Mr. Nice x White Russian) from two different W.R. buds that i seeded. And another 200 seeds from a Mr. Nice x Mr. Nice bud/branch. And (the) guy down the line as passed back a Durban Poison x Mr. Nice (just a couple) and a White Widow x Mr. Nice (just a couple). In theory the Durban Poison x Mr. Nice might be the best (accidental) breeding ... as it would be a pure sativa x a pure indica crossed.

Man, them seed dealers got it made man. I only seeded one large bud on one branch of 3 different plants and got around 3-400 viable seeds. If you seeded an entire plant out... and these guys are selling some seeds for 20 bucks a piece. Harvesting seed is a pain in the ass, but i'd do it all day long for 20 bucks a seed !!!
.


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## raiderman (May 12, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> I'd love to try a whole bunch of different strains. Mail, however, i'm not too fond of.
> 
> I did reap about 200 seeds total (Mr. Nice x White Russian) from two different W.R. buds that i seeded. And another 200 seeds from a Mr. Nice x Mr. Nice bud/branch. And (the) guy down the line as passed back a Durban Poison x Mr. Nice (just a couple) and a White Widow x Mr. Nice (just a couple). In theory the Durban Poison x Mr. Nice might be the best (accidental) breeding ... as it would be a pure sativa x a pure indica crossed.
> 
> ...


i know bro, i'm sure they love me.lol. yea if the f---ers dont crack total loss.i had a pac a blak label BB with these 2 pacs of DP BB.the DP BB broke ground all 20 in 2days . one black label BB broke ground in 5 days,lol.80. buks ,shot..but i'll make it back,,chek out at breedbay . theres a breeder there that produces his own stuff and sells pacs here and there. you can settup your own and sell like ebay,crazy huh.but anyway this dude got purple kush, purple moonshine . name is Bodhi seeds. look it up.got some crazy stuff there.


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## theloadeddragon (May 12, 2009)

some of my best plants from seeds didn't pop for up to 2 weeks  Purple Kush seeds??? PK is supposed to be a clone only strain.... I have tried a few different pollenating techniques on it with no success, same as a breeder buddy of mine...... Purple Kush seeds....... very interested to see them.....


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## raiderman (May 12, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> some of my best plants from seeds didn't pop for up to 2 weeks  Purple Kush seeds??? PK is supposed to be a clone only strain.... I have tried a few different pollenating techniques on it with no success, same as a breeder buddy of mine...... Purple Kush seeds....... very interested to see them.....


he's out of seeds now but will have some soon.. i'll know wen he does,i'm registeres to buy from him as soon as it comes.


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## tilemaster (May 12, 2009)

Gambler def impressive setup. i prused so i wont be stingy +++


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## theloadeddragon (May 12, 2009)

I have done much research on the purple kush strain. Mine came from the SR-71 coffee shop in Oak while while back. Hermied purple kush seeds? Thats the only way I know of having pure purple kush seeds.....


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## BAYAREAMEDICAL (May 13, 2009)

The room looks super clean....


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## BAYAREAMEDICAL (May 13, 2009)

You think you insulated duct hold the heat in... Im about to change my ducting if it hold the heat in....does it hold it in good..


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## Old Frog (May 13, 2009)

I just changed all my ducting to insulated through 8" suntubes. My test runs are looking superb. Thanks DaG for the tip.


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## DaGambler (May 14, 2009)

BAYAREAMEDICAL said:


> You think you insulated duct hold the heat in... Im about to change my ducting if it hold the heat in....does it hold it in good..


i draw air from directly outside (basically) and push it right back outside again... so i would be sweating buckets off the ventilation ducting if it weren't insulated in the winter-time. (Think ice cold drink on a hot day.) But, yeah, it also helps to keep the heat moving along. I remember touching uninsulated ducting ... and how very hot it can be. So it's one less surface radiating heat. Better climate control is always a plus.
.


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## Thundercat (May 14, 2009)

Where do you guys get the insulated, hydro shop? When I got my ducting at lowes all they ahd was regular stuff.


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## 420weedman (May 14, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> Where do you guys get the insulated, hydro shop? When I got my ducting at lowes all they ahd was regular stuff.


i saw it at HD when i bought the regular shit


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## Thundercat (May 14, 2009)

I'll have to check that out next grow, I don't have a HD around here.


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## bigjesse1922 (May 14, 2009)

Order it online at htgsupply.com I bet they have it.


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## dankmango (May 15, 2009)

DG- using 1.25 gallon easter buckets for hempy n they have been needing watering everyday, to avoid burning I switch between adding nutes to just plain water every other day. I cant tell the difference between girls drinking the water and girls transpiration from dryness and heat. with FF nute's i follow their schedule just with the extra water here and there. 

Do you ever top off the girlies with plain water, or do you adjust the schedule so they get less nutes everytime to avoid burning? 

Do you think its an accurate reading to test your runoff for ppm or do you think salts build up at the bottom?

What does your ppm run around veg, switch to flower, and final flowerin ppm?

thanks bro n good luck this go round again
got skunk 1 and super lemon haze n your review got me lookin for a place to send some white russian beans to.


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## jtreezy420 (May 15, 2009)

hey DG got a question for ya to elaborate on.... u mentioned earlier about attempting a single cola HEMPY grow, keepin the plants small and manicured, well i wanted to pick ur brains alil bout how u might go bout it with ur expertise and all. much respect and thanks for any help


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## DaGambler (May 16, 2009)

dankmango said:


> ...


"DG- using 1.25 gallon easter buckets for hempy n they have been needing watering everyday..."

you could always make the rez bigger on them... its just less room for the roots to grow, but you could get to every-other-day waterings at least. Is your overflow at least 2" from the bottom?

"to avoid burning I switch between adding nutes to just plain water every other day..."

I'm not really a fan of the 'feast or famine" method of feeding. i like to give them what they seem to need every single watering. And if you were using Hempy and only watering every three days... it would take a long time to make adjustments if you didn't.

"I cant tell the difference between girls drinking the water and girls transpiration from dryness and heat..."

yah, this is one of the biggest 'issues' i think with Hempy style grows in that Humidity may also become an issue.

"Do you ever top off the girlies with plain water..."

I flush with plain RO water for the last two weeks of growth and try to get them to go a bit 'lime' just before that by not fertilizing as much.

"Do you think its an accurate reading to test your runoff for ppm or do you think salts build up at the bottom?"

I think thats a great way to test what's really going on in the root zone, expecially if you suspect pH problems or nutrient buildup. I tend to stay on the 'safer' side of fertilization... and am too lazy to test runoff. I just make sure i know what i am putting in to begin with (both ppm and pH-wise).

"What does your ppm run around veg, switch to flower, and final flowerin ppm?"

Clones from 0-200 ppm. Later veg. growth 100-400 ppm. Later flower growth around 600-800 ppm. (I've spiked it as high as 2000 ppm to get some quick color.) I try to keep the pH between 5.3 and 6.3 when mixing up the 40 gal. rez. Preferrably 5.9 pH.

"...your review got me lookin for a place to send some white russian beans to."

i'm prone to migraine headaches... so i sometimes get one from smok'in this over any other weed. but it deffinitely kicks like a fugg'in mule, like none of the others. I don't doubt that it stays up around 20 percent THC or higher... which is in, i believe, the range of decent hash. thanks for stopping by, man.
.


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## DaGambler (May 16, 2009)

jtreezy420 said:


> hey DG got a question for ya to elaborate on.... u mentioned earlier about attempting a single cola HEMPY grow, keepin the plants small and manicured, well i wanted to pick ur brains alil bout how u might go bout it...


my experience is limited, brotha. all i got is a bit of experience and a bit more theory. in the past i have generally striven toward the 'sea of green' by filling the plants in 'shoulder to shoulder'. Of course, some plants grow more like christmas trees (pear shaped) while others grow more top heavy (apple shaped)... but generally pruning toward a more bush-like shape with multiple top colas. The flip-side of this is that you want to achieve some 'depth' to the canopy. You can do this by removing fan leaves like a banshee... or by not bushing them out so much to begin with, such that the light can better penetrate around the plants.

Another consideration is where you are going to pull the clones from. If a plant is already looking pretty bushy, then i'll pull a clone(s) from the side and/or bottom of the plant. If a plant is already tall and lanky then i'll pull the clone(s) from the top of the plant in order to make it fill in a bit. Ideally, i'd like to see 1-4 main colas... but you have to work with the reality of the plant at hand 

It's also a bit of a numbers game, though. Check out SeeMoreBuds videos on YouTube and you will notice that, up to a certain extent, the more plants you have the faster they will be able to fill-in a sea-of-green. So turn-around time is also a factor in choosing to not veg. the plants to a larger size.

Only the Scale Of Time will tell, my friend,  if i can find some other way to dial the room in, then i will attempt to do so. i'm not here for my health. 
.


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## dankmango (May 16, 2009)

Perfect! gonna start takin it lighter on the nutes. My holes are 2 inches up, but I have 2 600w hps in a 4x4 room, with a 454cfm exhausting constantly and a fan blowing on all the girls. Plus I am down in the dirty too, in america's wang/ retirement center and outside temps have been pushin 90 already so my a/c runs a lot drying out everything even more. thanks for the good answers n nice thread. keep up the good work 
edit: I posted pics in a journal so check it out when you can, just gettin started with it. I chose my size buckets after watching yours n how you are goin to multiple in a 3 gallon. last run I vegged for 5 weeks flowered with 1 600 and had to cut early cause I ran out of money. they were takin way too long for me, so i am keeping them all smaller for quicker finishing now https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/194377-dankmango-tries-hempy-perpetual.htmlhttps://www.rollitup.org/194377-dankmango-tries-hempy-perpetual.html


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## DaGambler (May 16, 2009)

I checked out ur journal man, looks like you got a good start there.

but, then again, Bubba Sparxxx might suggest that this is getting Ugly...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqEq7ABYzEQ&feature=related

One of the all time best beats... Scarface - Mary Jane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB5hZUvNiVk

And you have to drop some Slightly Stoopid - No Cocaine...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfKexB7qKrs

Steve Earle - Copperhead Road

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc86_Weoye0
.


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## dankmango (May 17, 2009)

my laptop never stops playin slightly stoopid, no cocaine, wiseman, 3 am, love it all. n try some good kottonmouth kings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsNWqLX1EZ4 .
love the line: what you're really afraid of is just a little plant That comes from the earth with water sunlight through love
Unless you growin hydroponics indo then it's some tubs or buckets.
dunno if your like me and dont run a tv, then check out: hulu.com, fancast.com, or watchxonline.com all my favorite shows whenever I want, I cant stand watching tv with commercials now.


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## dankmango (May 17, 2009)

not here for my health, thats what drill seargents say. haha i wish I could join the army again and live it differently. it would be could with the wizzanator or whatever its called. Ill throw a 1k watter up in the barracks if they ever let me in again, i dunno what that fan noise is 1st seargent. haha. just listened to that song all the way through and yezzir, its gettin ugly in here. haha, saw everyone around this sunday on here but you. workin with the dogs or with the job prolly. good music


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## DaGambler (May 20, 2009)

dankmango said:


> my laptop never stops playin slightly stoopid, no cocaine, wiseman, 3 am, love it all. n try some good kottonmouth kings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsNWqLX1EZ4 ....
> dunno if your like me and dont run a tv, then check out: hulu.com, fancast.com, or watchxonline.com all my favorite shows whenever I want, I cant stand watching tv with commercials now.


no doubt. i listen to all the Slightly Stoopid songs alot. havn't gone digital. my t.v. is just for tapes/dvd's... but ill look into the sites you mentioned... and check out the Kottonmouths while i'm at it. thanks.
.


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## DaGambler (May 20, 2009)

sorry,  i'll stop posting up YouTube links after this... but i just gotta put up one more artist, Lil Flip - Pass Da Swisha:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL1zRZxz2HI

PICTURE UPDATE (Day 2 of Flowering and Day 2 for the Clones):

(1) Plastic People - finally got the clone shelves covered in plastic... drain tube from the lowest spot on each is drain-to-waste. Also added an overflow tube to the rez... 'cuz i can be a bit forgetfull.

(2) 2GirlsNoCup - 16 oz. cups filled w/soil. two holes at the outside bottom of each for drainage, no reservoir. M.G. Seed Starting Mix (mostly sphagnum). 9 oz. clear plastic cups for 'domes'. the domes are re-used 'cuz i have to trim the top edges off.

(3) Lollipop Whore - Killed two birds with one stone; lollipopped the plants 4" inches up ... and got the next generation of clones in the process.

(4) ManyGirlsManyCups - I'll put the domes on and leave them alone for 7 days at around 78 degrees. Then they will be opened up just long enough to get a drink of water and then closed again for 3 more days. Then they will be either opened or closed everyday (individually) thereafter depending upon if they seem to be ready for the open air, or if they seem to be suffering from it.

(5) Cloning Device - Taken from the Government Marijuana Research Laboratory in Mississippi ... the same place that the G13 clone was stolen from.

(6) WTFisThat - thats about half of . . . wait a minute, i have no idea what that is. Someone must have taken my camera when i wasn't looking !!
.


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## DaGambler (May 20, 2009)

dankmango said:


> ... saw everyone around this sunday on here but you. workin with the dogs or with the job prolly. good music


fo' sho... I was up last night till 4:00 in the morning screwing around w/a HPS system. Bulb got lit up... then accidently shut off... and i tried to turn it back on right away. bad idea. i waited 10 minutes tried again, no luck. 20 minutes tried again, no luck. so i start freak'in out and crawl under the house and grab the ballast and pull the cords through the floor etc. swap out the 'capacitor' and the ignitor. no joy. switch out the bulb to a spare bulb. Spare bulb works. so i finally figured out that i jumped the gun and prolly didn't need to rip everything apart... just wait longer. 

BUT, i feel like i'm finally over this change-over hurdle. So i'll hopefully be online a bit more often again and get updated on other people's journals and stuff. i've got about 20 threads i follow a.t.m. And have only caught up on one of them. 
.


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## Southern (May 20, 2009)

BloodShot420 said:


> i would say 5 lbs is a good target for 4KW... its a good minimum, dont want to be too optimistic...


I'd say 7lb bare minimum...


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## dankmango (May 20, 2009)

Its all so nice, I have such limited space to work with, hopefully I can make up for it with some mad chronic dense buds. Im lookin for a double wide to use up north for the end of this year and the future. I transpalnted my clones into hempy's yesterday. I wait until they have roots long enough to hit the res and then do it up cause they like it so much better. Probably because I pay too much attention and overwater sometimes tryin to take care of the little ones. I hate light incidents, I lose power frequently and freak out every time like its the end of the world. They are putting new power lines in the ground right now though, hopefully to solve that problem. Your shit does look like a lab. You should get a white overcoat and maybe convince everybody your doing legitimate research for cancer or something haha. and as far as a minimum goal for 4kw, Id say just managing it all is a good goal. Id like to point out that this is proof that weed doesnt make anyone lazy, lazy people are just that way.


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## dankmango (May 20, 2009)

yezzir, "I know how to cure my weed but ill take it now". thats me all day


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## bigjesse1922 (May 20, 2009)

Yeah your way behind on my journal fucker LOL


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## DaGambler (May 20, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> Yeah your way behind on my journal fucker LOL


heheh, holy shite dude, 51 pages... i'ma have to get back to it !!

i'll get there one of these days. 
.


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## DaGambler (May 20, 2009)

Southern said:


> I'd say 7lb bare minimum...


dang, that quote was from a while ago... But at least ur starting from the beginning 

i'd love to be shown the error of my ways, 'cuz i really would like to yield better than i have in the past. but i tend to max out around 1 oz. avg. per plant or per sqare foot. 

i'ma work'in on it. this next clone crop should be better than the last. first off, they were all taken at the same time. the first crop had three generations of clones. the second (current one in flower) had clones two weeks apart and struggling under flouro's for 9 weeks. and i had some auto-flowers in there that i was still hop'in to pull into better veg growth. so about 8 of the current buckets are looking pretty sad because of those, the rest look like they are in good shape though. but i was expecting that it would take a good 3 crops to get some good clone picks. eventually that should spill over into final yield.
.


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## bigjesse1922 (May 20, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> heheh, holy shite dude, 51 pages... i'ma have to get back to it !!
> 
> i'll get there one of these days.
> .


Nah dont waste your time on the whole thing.  Start on the last 10 pages for my current grow! I got some BIIIIIIIG girls!

I am a chubby chaser! LOL


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## DaGambler (May 22, 2009)

Today's Safety Reminder:

Never throw anything into the trash !! No seeds, no leaves, no stems, no roots in soil, no used vacuum bags, etc. etc.

- = -

So i burnt the sulphur vaporiser for about 4 hours last nite. I'll burn it once more for 4-6 hours about 2 weeks into flowering. i've never really had a pest problem (other than fungus gnats) or a problem with powdery mildew... but better safe than sorry. i also use a ozone generator which seems to keep things pretty 'clean'. and hydrogen peroxide in the rez every few days. malathion for a soil drench as needed. pyrethrums, piperonyl, and neem for the foilage on occasion. sticky traps, especially fly paper. and diatamaceous earth on the floor. sometimes i find a dead bug.



bigjesse1922 said:


> Nah dont waste your time on the whole thing. Start on the last 10 pages for my current grow! I got some BIIIIIIIG girls!
> 
> I am a chubby chaser! LOL


nah, i'll start from the beginning... i'm already curious to know how you slid from a "20 watt" grow (with healthy looking plants, by the way) to whatever the current setup is. i'll deff. get through it this weekend.

PIC: Day 3 after Flipping to 12/12. Approx. two weeks after being transplanted into the Hempy Buckets.
.


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## dankmango (May 22, 2009)

looking nice, I think they look a little happier than your last girls too. maybe from not having as stressful lives in the cups like the others did? they look perky.


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## DaGambler (May 22, 2009)

dankmango said:


> looking nice, I think they look a little happier than your last girls too. maybe from not having as stressful lives in the cups like the others did? they look perky.


they did transition to good veg. growth under the HPS a lot faster that the last girls. I think some of it may be that i used a 1/2 strength Root Activator from Lowe's in the rez. after i finally had them all slipped into the perlite.
.


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## DaGambler (May 24, 2009)

I LIED.

Sexiest YouTube Video EVER: Destination Unknown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ3Ibp9LQPM&feature=related

Hot Hot Hot: Calabria 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL1hlzLsUaU

Groove State - Disco Disco

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkAeqWsqiR8

(EDIT) So now i just wait and see... if about 15 of the plants are going to die... 'Cuz i'm a moron and i put some Neem oil in the reservoir <doh!> uh, so, like, yeah, don't do that 
.


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## BAYAREAMEDICAL (May 25, 2009)

YOU WERE TALKING BOUT YOU KILLED A COUPLE, WELL I KNOW ITS HAPPEND EVERY ROUND WITH ME... JUST YESTERDAY AS A MATTER OF FACT.










YOU WIN SUM YOU LOSS SUM...


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## DaGambler (May 25, 2009)

BAYAREAMEDICAL said:


> YOU WERE TALKING BOUT YOU KILLED A COUPLE, WELL I KNOW ITS HAPPEND EVERY ROUND WITH ME... JUST YESTERDAY AS A MATTER OF FACT.
> 
> 
> 
> YOU WIN SUM YOU LOSS SUM...


heh heh. ya, no doubt. fortunately i have a couple to lose. but the 'SUM' certainly comes to mind when it happens. <sigh>
.


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## LiEBE420 (May 25, 2009)

nice setup man. one day i'll have a room this big


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## mygirls (May 25, 2009)

lookind good. your going to yield nicely.


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## M Blaze (May 25, 2009)

Damn you got a big operation goin on. I just watched your youtube vid and I loved it. I dont know how I missed this thread so now I gotta go back and read it all.

Im now subscribed


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## mygirls (May 25, 2009)

shit ya sweet setup how did i miss that vid. fuck bro it offthe hook over their.


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## M Blaze (May 25, 2009)

mygirls said:


> fuck bro it offthe hook over their.


Thats fo sure


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## tilemaster (May 25, 2009)

ya i fully agree off the chain...im jealous of those rooms for sure...youtube videos clean..u should contact Urban grower and see if theres a perk 2 doin an episode...i wuz thinkin 7x7 on my new veg area..approx size of the existing flower room thats being torn down next month. 1000w mh..u have any suggestions..i c ur veg area is a entire room..but i cant build that big ...my garage wont hold it..after i redesing my bud room 2 large in charge deminsions...plann on runnin somewhere aroudn 3-5k of light for sure. im already runnin 2k


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## mygirls (May 25, 2009)

tilemaster said:


> ya i fully agree off the chain...im jealous of those rooms for sure...youtube videos clean..u should contact Urban grower and see if theres a perk 2 doin an episode...i wuz thinkin 7x7 on my new veg area..approx size of the existing flower room thats being torn down next month. 1000w mh..u have any suggestions..i c ur veg area is a entire room..but i cant build that big ...my garage wont hold it..after i redesing my bud room 2 large in charge deminsions...plann on runnin somewhere aroudn 3-5k of light for sure. im already runnin 2k


 you know i have left him massage after massage.would like him to come down when my new rooms are all set up. oh ah


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## DaGambler (May 25, 2009)

thanks 4 coming by, ya'll



tilemaster said:


> ...youtube videos clean..u should contact Urban grower and see if theres a perk 2 doin an episode...


heheh... i'm old school, i'd rather see my name 'up in lights' in an issue of High Times magazine. But for now, i think i'll just stick to trying to hit it and quit it.



tilemaster said:


> ya, i don't know man, i'm still trying to get the gist of your journal, it's a formidable undertaking  (quite long) some flouro's on some shelves would be nice for clones and such before the 1k MH. That would keep you well supplied for 2-4 1k HPS lamps in flower. It just a matter of the space that you have available. If footprint is a serious issue you could always consider growing vertically, which i have never done. If you give me total dimensions of the area that you have available i'd be happy to tell you how i think you can best utilize the space for maximum yeild.
> .


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## tilemaster (May 25, 2009)

hmm well i just re measured....i wuz thinking flower room 12 x12 . maybe a lil bigger. and my veg area basically like a 5x5 or lil bigger..with recessed spaces for clones added in.


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## DaGambler (May 25, 2009)

tilemaster said:


> hmm well i just re measured....i wuz thinking flower room 12 x12 . maybe a lil bigger. and my veg area basically like a 5x5 or lil bigger..with recessed spaces for clones added in.


hmm... okay so for the flower room, the footprint isn't the problem. it's just a question of how many lamps you want to be firing. each 1k hps will cover a 4 by 5 area pretty good, with the 'sides' of the bulb giving the greater spread of light.

as far as the veg area goes (5' by 5')... the 1k MH you were talking about would deffinitely be plenty... but you might be better off increasing the floorprint by having 2 shelves with a 600w hps (or mh) on each shelf... or by having 3 or 4 shelves with like 3-4 four foot flouro's (2 bulb fixtures) on each shelf.

another way to figure things out is to know what equipment you are going to have on hand  since space won't really be the limiting factor. i guess you've got 'x' number of cfl's ... a 400hps ... a 600hps ... a 1000hps and ur thinkin about gett'in a 1000mh... ?

*"my caregiver just let me peep his setup..all i can say is real serious..30x20 flower room...10x10 veg area..greenhouse 20plant strong too w/ 4ft outdoors plants..prob close to 200plants..bud room had probably 10 x 1000whps..veg room was 2 1000w mh..w 6'' can fan pulln heat from em. fattest healthiest plants ive ever seen..he said he'd give me 2ft clones..in big pots so i can jsut start flowering with no real vegtime. said he'd work with me on the pricing. im absolutely now convinced mh is where its at for veg, and big wattage too."*

I'm still getting caught up on ur journal... i really would have liked to of seen that. but hell, man, you don't need advice from me... you've seen how its done for real  !! and that buddy or yours will prolly have some good ideas. if he's somehow running 10 1k hps lights with no a.c. ... he's doing something right.
.




.


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## tilemaster (May 25, 2009)

okay lighting wise i have a switchable mh /hps 400...a hps 600 and a 1000hps..also have like 16 26 watter cfl on hand..but i kinda wanna jsut buy a 1000w mh...and also 3 more 1000whps..ditch the 600 ..parts never hurt...

i agree w/ u on shelving thing..the less back breaking i can design this the better..i like the floro idea cause of $$savings..but id probably just need a 2footer for my ezcloner ill be buyn ..then out of the cloner they can sit under the floro and then go st8 under the big dog mh..

as far as the flower room i wuz thinking ive got the existing 1000watter..i think i need to upgrade the hood from the extrasun to the next 1 up with the 6 in flanges..buy 3 more of these..and run 2 series of 2 1000watter in the bud room..2 acitve air 6 in hydrofarm exhaust fan...(already have the 1)..to pull and air cool the hoods..wut u think.. maybe ill go much bigger w. the veg room to give the 5x5 to the 1000watter, and still have room for the shelving and cloner...right?




DaGambler said:


> hmm... okay so for the flower room, the footprint isn't the problem. it's just a question of how many lamps you want to be firing. each 1k hps will cover a 4 by 5 area pretty good, with the 'sides' of the bulb giving the greater spread of light.
> 
> as far as the veg area goes (5' by 5')... the 1k MH you were talking about would deffinitely be plenty... but you might be better off increasing the floorprint by having 2 shelves with a 600w hps (or mh) on each shelf... or by having 3 or 4 shelves with like 3-4 four foot flouro's (2 bulb fixtures) on each shelf.
> 
> ...


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## DaGambler (May 25, 2009)

heheh. i'ma take my response to this query to ur thread... 
.


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## DaGambler (May 26, 2009)

This is the current clone crop around day 8 or 9. The domes came off on day 7... and i saw some white fuzz mold on about 6 of them; indicating they had plenty of water to start with. So i misted all of them with some RO water and 1 tablespoon per gallon of H2O2. Skipped the 'drink of water' i had planned for them... and have just been misting them for a couple days here. Kept the domes off to allow them to dry out a little. Havn't lost any yet, still at 240.













Down to around 101 containers from 108 in the flower room... may lose up to 2 more from the Neem Oil fiasco, as well as already pulling a couple of the under-performing auto-flowering buckets. Still at around 200 mommies.
.


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## dankmango (May 26, 2009)

lookin real nice, I usually stay on the misting n thats why I never cover them up. look like they are off n running. I just lost one yesterday, didnt pack in the dirt tight enough, looked as if it was not touching anything underground so it dried out. 

I love cups of dirt, my argument is that roots have forever grown in the dirt, throw some cuttings in dirt and roots are bound to grow. Plus I use mircle gro soil so i just use plain water and dont have to worry about nutes that way. I also dont cut the tips of leaves anymore, looks like you didnt cut them either. Try some spray-n-gro if you ever have any around, I give it to clones as often as I make it and they always look happier after it. just zinc n something else I think. I also use it after taking cuttings, and transplanting, and any other reason I can think of. 

do you cut off dead leaves when you transplant or do they just fall off whenever they want?(on the clones)


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## DaGambler (May 26, 2009)

Ya, i go with M.G. Seed Starting Mix just cuz it has less nutes in it than regular M.G. soil. And still use plain water for a long time after the rooting hormone Dip N' Grow.

I didn't bother to 'tip' the leaves this time... just shoved them up under the domes - not worrying too much if they were pushing against them or not. worked fine. I trimmed some yellows off on day 9... and i'll clean them up again at 9 weeks when they are transplanted into the perlite in the flower room... and once or twice during flowering.
.


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## tilemaster (May 26, 2009)

hey i jsut caught u were reading in my thread about my boy..ya hes a main co operative grower..goin real big for sure..how hes able to do that without a/c ..im in MT now..so even tho it gets hot...shaded air like on the northside of my home remains cool..and well the winters are like 7 months out the year..and freezing..i got a good look at his setup..would love to take pics..but he'd kill me..2 series of lights, 5 in each.. he had multiple fans and they vented directly outside...its in a garage..he took of the garage door , framed it in . . sheeted it..sided it..and pulls a 12'' intake off the front false garage door..


I hope u dont mind this post gambler..but here it is..


LIVINGSTON, Mont.  Downtown Livingston has gone to pot.
In the open garage doorway of a small white warehouse, six blocks from the Park County Sheriff's Office and minutes from the nouveau eateries and art galleries where tourists stroll, Homer Terry churns ice into a five-gallon bucket of marijuana.
It's a hot Friday afternoon. The whir of Terry's power drill and stir paddle mixes with the shovel chucks of a nearby railroad crew spreading gravel. He gives the customary Montana greeting of a slight head nod and an easy smile to passers-by, but otherwise he keeps working, blending bits of marijuana into a potent smokable paste.
Some would say Terry is making hashish, but the man with drill in hand churning an icy drink of cannabis prefers to say he's harvesting "tri-chromes," that is, the secretions of resins rich in THC forming on the exterior of discarded marijuana plant matter. Others would say Terry and the other half-dozen volunteers toiling on the northern edge of a busy thoroughfare in this sleepy railroad town are growing dope.
Terry, a volunteer at the medical-marijuana growing co-op, would say he's making medicine. And the state of Montana agrees.
It has been four years since Montana voters cast an overwhelming vote to legalize medical marijuana. The ballot initiative, allowing patients with a doctor's referral to grow as many as six marijuana plants for medicinal purposes, garnered more voter support that November than Gov. Brian Schweitzer or U.S. Rep. Denny Rehberg.
In practice, however the law is receiving mixed reviews. Patient groups and legally sanctioned growers say they now navigate a vague legal path with enough unexpected curves to send some, unintentionally, into violation of drug laws.
Likewise, law enforcement officials say they are seeing the emergence of a marijuana culture they didn't expect, with a few large indoor marijuana farms and a shield of confidentiality preventing detectives from determining whether business is being done according to law.
In practice, medical marijuana didn't take root right away in Montana. Even after the law passed with 63 percent approval Nov. 2, 2004, newspaper accounts of the vote suggested that "Montanans suffering from certain medical conditions may be able to legally smoke marijuana" with emphasis on the word "may," not "can." Prior to the vote, Montanans were warned by U.S. deputy drug czar Scott Burns that federal law trumps state law and that Montana wouldn't be a safe harbor for legal cannabis.
Except for a few incidents, however, medical marijuana in Montana hasn't resulted in many arrests by federal or state officials. State registration of patients approved to use medical marijuana has more than tripled in the last year, said Roy Kemp, who issues medical-marijuana licenses for the state Department of Public Health and Human Services.
"We had 1,280 registered patients this July," said Kemp, who receives 40 to 50 applications a week. "We had 358 last July."
State health officials run a registry of patients, Kemp said. It tracks the number of participating doctors, currently 162, as well as the number of appointed caregivers, 386. The state never discloses the names of the people involved to anyone, including police.
What Kemp will disclose are the categories of qualifying conditions into which registrants fall. Patients suffering from severe and chronic pain with nausea or muscle spasms represent 70 percent of those registered for what's conversationally called a green card, a plastic medical-marijuana license good for one year. Patients suffering from severe seizures coupled with severe nausea and muscle spasms are the second largest group, at 11 percent.
One patient's experience  included in the remaining 8 percent of registered patients  is Donna Woodworth, who has struggled with diminishing weight since being treated for colon cancer 25 years ago. Appetite loss due to medical treatment or chronic condition is one of about a dozen conditions covered by the state medical-marijuana law.
"Suddenly, I can eat what I call my old-lady diet," said Woodworth, "yogurt and mashed potatoes and some bread. Basically that's what I eat."
Since being approved for medical marijuana, Woodworth said, her body weight has increased from 80 pounds to 112. Using cannabis is not an easy subject to talk about, said Woodworth, who lives in Livingston and receives her marijuana from Montana Caregivers, a registered corporation that grows marijuana for some 50 medical-marijuana patients.
Marijuana use bears a stigma with or without the state card, said Woodworth, who nervously spoke of her experience while standing in Montana Caregivers' Park Avenue office. People who casually know she uses cannabis assume she's doing something wrong.
At the mention of implied wrongdoing, grower Ronita Minnick begins to laugh. She, her husband, David, and another grower formed a sort of co-op and started growing medical marijuana a year ago. Friends then were warning that they were all going to jail. They've been waiting for the bad news ever since.
"There were a lot of people saying, 'You're not in jail yet?' " said Minnick. "And some are still saying 'You're not in jail?' "
_'Caregivers' with green thumbs_
The Minnicks are registered patients. Ronita has a degenerative diabetic eye disease. Dave's spine was injured in an auto accident that causes him chronic pain. But they're also caregivers, the term used by the state to identify people chosen by patients to grow medical marijuana.
Caregivers have to be selected by a patient. No selection, no authorization to grow marijuana legally. Each patient is allowed to have up to six marijuana plants. A caregiver with several patients can have a pretty big crop. The growers in Minnicks' co-op are raising about 300 medical-marijuana plants in multiple stages under grow lights inside a secured building.
The operation is legitimate under state medical-marijuana standards, but the setting mirrors a noncertified operation. There are smoking pipes and rolling papers in the break room, along with smoke-free marijuana vaporizers for patients concerned about carcinogens.
The varieties of marijuana grown sport names like AK-47, White Widow and Kush. Different varieties produce different highs.
"It's a large grow operation," said Tim Barnes, a detective with the Missouri River Drug Task Force. "Minnick was in the newspapers, so we've always known what was going on. Dave's pretty much been forthcoming."
_Lingering legal questions_
Dave Minnick not only invited the detectives to check out his crop, he said he approached the Park County attorney before he got going so law enforcement wouldn't be alarmed. They were still alarmed, Minnick said. The county prosecutor first told Minnick to leave, then called in a deputy and asked the caregiver to stay once he realized Minnick wasn't joking.
Barnes isn't sure large grow operations were expected when the medical-marijuana initiative passed. It's one of many issues he thinks the law overlooked or ignored. Growers aren't required to keep records, and because state records are tightly guarded, it's difficult to determine if the marijuana is being grown for registered patients and if the amount of marijuana grown exceeds the limit of six plants per patient.
Barnes also has concerns about caregivers growing a small number of plants in homes where children are present. And he's not entirely convinced everyone registered for medical marijuana needs it. There is no age limit for legally using medical marijuana.
"One of the things that concerns me is that more people are moving here because they can have access to medical marijuana," Barnes said. "It's all over the state, not just here."
Patients and caregivers have concerns, too, said Tom Daubert, with Patients and Families United, an advocacy group for medical-marijuana users.
Working with law enforcement, Daubert and others are trying to work some of the kinks out of the state law. Patients and Families United would like to see some allowances for transportation by nonpatients. Patients too ill to travel now must rely on caregiver home delivery or courier, which poses problems because only patients and caregivers can possess the drug. Barnes and other detectives want more accountability written into the law.
One Missoula patient committed suicide last year after drug enforcement agents seized her marijuana because it was sent through United Parcel Service.
The group would also like to increase the amount of marijuana a patient is allowed to have on hand from an ounce, roughly a lunch bag full, to a larger amount. The group lobbied the 2007 Legislature to make the changes, but to no avail.
Federal officials would like to put the kibosh on medical marijuana, in part because they believe it undermines drug prevention programs such as the elementary school program Drug Abuse Resistance Education, or DARE.
"I don't have a lot of huge worries about it because I trust Americans to fix what they break, but I'm worried about the message we're sending to our kids. That's a tragedy," said Jeffrey Sweetin, special agent in charge of the Rocky Mountain Division of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency. "The kids that flunked DARE are now telling your kids, my kids, that this is medicine."
Marijuana is classified as a Schedule I narcotic, meaning that the federal government believes it has no useful purpose. Doctors can't prescribe the drug without breaking the law, they can only recommend it. Government agencies like the National Institutes of Health have argued for years that marijuana is damaging, Sweetin said. That argument was not heard in states where marijuana advocates have persuaded voters to allow medical marijuana.
"Please understand, we don't ignore marijuana grow operations," Sweetin said. "I assure you, there are thresholds at every U.S. attorney's office."
Not all doctors agree that marijuana is harmful. Ed Stickney, a retired physician in Billings, has written referrals for several patients. He said that particularly in pain cases, marijuana poses less of an addiction threat than powerful painkillers like OxyContin.
"I contend that if it were discovered today, marijuana would be considered a miracle drug," Stickney said.


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## DaGambler (May 27, 2009)

don't mind at all... thanks for sharing.
.


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## tilemaster (May 27, 2009)

hey i thought u might find it interesting..and althou i cant photograph this particular op, as u can c my partner has been very forecomeing about his op with the media at least..




DaGambler said:


> don't mind at all... thanks for sharing.
> .


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## DaGambler (May 27, 2009)

Day 10 Clone Room and Flower Room:

Lowered the lights all the way on the clones, it's time for them to sink or swim. At least one of them failed to thrive for some reason or another. This is the only time that i find a moisture meter very handy for checking out how moist the root zone actually is.

Lost those other 2 buckets in the flower room... down to 99. Also had to chop 6 of the white russians cuz they had more balls than tits. Woops, getting sloppy. Each of those buckets still had another plant in it. But this shite is very frustrating some times. Deffinitely makes me want to tighten my game up. The 6 lbs. (goal) is still a possibility... but with every mistake it gets a little harder. I always seem to learn my lessons the hard way.


.


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## dankmango (May 27, 2009)

just the way it is with chronic bro. experience is the best teacher with the dank. even when i learn something from you or another guy, I still seem to make mistakes until I learn what to do right.


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## DaGambler (May 28, 2009)

Left Side High:







Right Side High:







Left Side Close: Some squatters, 2 weeks younger.







Right Side Close: Some lanky bastards, the older ones.







Corner Shot:







I can see an advantage to flowering at a shorter height... just so they stretch less. I've resisted every urge to top them... so that they will hopefully focus more on a central cola. The taller girls are at least 2 1/2 feet... but the quick stretch should be about over with and they are settling into flowering already at Day 11... perhaps a bit faster than the first go-round because of their genetic age at this point. Currently at around 192 plants... unless i slip on another banana peel 
.


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## dankmango (May 28, 2009)

lookin good bro. you ever gonna get any co2 or is this it for your setup? definitely better than last go round from what I can see. good job keeping that place clean too.


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## tilemaster (May 28, 2009)

ive been thinkn about taking ur advice..on incoroprating wut i already own in2 new setup... i think more or less u were looking out for my finaces..which is tight..cause im tight.. so u may be right..i might jsut frame the bigger spaces..and just get the 1 more 1000watter for mh veg..u say the 50sq i have is good for my numbers and my lighting..i agree really..i just hate how i cant daisy chain them with that box out..the 4 and 6 can be daisy chained..but i gotta turn the 1000watter sideways to fit right. then theres the me issue..im only 6foot..but dude i will not do this crawl in a hatch thing again..plus with the 7x7 and 3 lights..its a real back cramper once the girls fill in.. i went from legally 12 plants to 24 over this grow..so im running at half capacity now..and cramped.. so with all that inmind.. i think im rolling with same equiptent..except the new MH and coresponding 6in fan ill need..and randoms..but i will get both rooms still built...and bigger. room factor has really shown thro since fighting mites, and the need to really get in there and be mobile, with sprays , and spreading them out so they dont touch...

anyways thank u for ur perspective ... nic 2 have 5 like minded 'gamblers' thrown ideas off ea other..gives me alot of good perspective...im not always firn on all cylinders. 

also ur updates are lookn grand bro..im sure there are several grows on rui, that all of us destined for this path aspire to get 2. yours Gambler is top ranked. tilemaster


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## Thundercat (May 28, 2009)

Beautiful update gambler, those girls are lookin nice. It gonna be interesting to see how much of an increase you get this run, and then again next run once all this has settled in, and you finally get all the kinks worked out!


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## Smokiethebear (May 28, 2009)

ight yo Ive been stalkin this site for a min looking for ideas on a new set up and you get the honors of my first post since Im goning to model my grow off of yours(only scaled down) +rep soon as I find out how lol


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## DaGambler (May 29, 2009)

dankmango said:


> lookin good bro. you ever gonna get any co2 or is this it for your setup? definitely better than last go round from what I can see. good job keeping that place clean too.


prolly won't co2. i've got additional amounts from having over a half a dozen large animals living in my home ... around 1200 lbs. of dog plus myself  and lots of 'through' flow from a portable a.c. You'd have to get a 'dual-line' portable a.c. to have a nice sealed setup. I've been thinking about not running any a.c. ... and just pulling enough air through to continually keep the room cool. (EDIT) Then maybe i could add another light 
.


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## DaGambler (May 29, 2009)

tilemaster said:


> ..im sure there are several grows on rui, that all of us destined for this path aspire to get 2...


at the risk of giving advice, most people shouldn't tarry too long along that path. Not a good long-term career option ... least around these parts. Hit it and quit it, brotha. But then, i'm not in your shoes. I'd be quite excited about the prospect of doing it legally.
.


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## DaGambler (May 29, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> Beautiful update gambler, those girls are lookin nice. It gonna be interesting to see how much of an increase you get this run, and then again next run once all this has settled in, and you finally get all the kinks worked out!


thanks man. any increase would be a good increase. and there are deffinitely still some kinks being worked out.
.


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## tilemaster (May 29, 2009)

i feel ur struggle bro..and for that matter..i do the #'s in my head every night..like ur #'s 5every 3 months..is 20x4..good final number for the year..but still not touchn 6figurs.. i want too touch those type of #'s...and it sounds like there is a huge grey area im diving into..i am prepared tho..now i know why ur the Gambler..lol


DaGambler said:


> at the risk of giving advice, most people shouldn't tarry too long along that path. Not a good long-term career option ... least around these parts. Hit it and quit it, brotha. But then, i'm not in your shoes. I'd be quite excited about the prospect of doing it legally.
> .


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## DaGambler (May 30, 2009)

The Gambler (Kenny Rogers)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn481KcjvMo&feature=related

heheh.
.


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## JACKMAYOFFER (May 30, 2009)

Awesome thanks for all your knowledge and thanks for sharing ur journal of your sick ass crop so sick!!!


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## DaGambler (Jun 1, 2009)

Day 14 for the clones... lost two now... but i cheat a little and had back-ups on hand in a glass of water. so I still havn't given up on any of them yet.

Got a smaller 35 gal. rez for the clones. It's too tempting to use the larger rez nuted for the mommies... and i've over-nuted clones in the past, so this will make that less enticing. So i'll be able to maintain two different (reverse osmosis) reservoir nute strengths. Still looking to get a second watering wand and pump setup for the new rez.

hopefully i'll be ordering a 12" inline fan (1060 cfm) in the next couple days. i want to transition to not using a.c. in the flower room (but still using it in the clone room). Tilemasters remarks about his buddy using 10 1k HPS lamps w/o a.c. had me wish'in i was growing out in a greenhouse... with plenty of fresh air. So i'ma give it a try. If it works then i'll be adding a 6th light in the flower room.
.


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## dankmango (Jun 1, 2009)

what are your outside temps bro? mine stay above 85 everyday, I worship my a/c.


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## Smokiethebear (Jun 1, 2009)

tilemaster said:


> i feel ur struggle bro..and for that matter..i do the #'s in my head every night..like ur #'s 5every 3 months..is 20x4..good final number for the year..but still not touchn 6figurs.. i want too touch those type of #'s...and it sounds like there is a huge grey area im diving into..i am prepared tho..now i know why ur the Gambler..lol


Its hard out here for a gangsta yo I too do the numbers every night I got a calculator sittin on my night stand lol Im not trying to hit 6 figures Im looking for mid 5s Im about to order 7packs of bean in the next week or so till trying to plan my room out but I got sometime I cant start up for a couple months


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## slipperyP (Jun 1, 2009)

Nice thread gambler....I missed it till now...subscribed +rep....


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## MediMary (Jun 1, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> Goal: A modest 5 lbs. per crop, 4 crops per year. (EDIT: 6lbs. per crop, 5 crops per year.)
> Sensi's G13xHP (Mr. Nice), Serious's White Russian, and some freebie Durban Poison, White Widow, and Power Skunk (all three G13 Labs)
> 
> The -Initial- Setup:
> ...


hey gambler, just stopped through.. things are looking good man, im subscribing to this one, 
some good info in here+rep man

peace in


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## tilemaster (Jun 1, 2009)

ya its def possible...my caregiver has like 4 different large fans all connected to atmospheric controllers..and hes pushing his exhaust right thro his roof..not into his attic where it would be bottled up....everthing is proffessionally daisy chained..wish i had a pic for u..it amazed me..and him, that I wuz runnin a/c and he didnt have too..30x20 room..10 lamps..tripped me out..his intake is right thro his sideing 8''..and on the shaded side of his house down low..but he does complain about low RH and seein brown spotting and dry leafs due to the low RH and from wut he says too much air flow...

well i hope the clones take for u...and u can manage getting the 12 incher..im sure thatll help..and the other lamp...shuffle, split the deck, place ur bets..here we go TM


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## DaGambler (Jun 1, 2009)

dankmango said:


> what are your outside temps bro? mine stay above 85 everyday, I worship my a/c.


ya thats been the temps lately. thats not bad though. My grow has been in up to the low 90's. i could continue to fight it by adding another portable a.c. i have into the mix... but both of them draw an insanse amount of air into the room in the process of cooling it. so why not just 'go with the flow' ... and completely evac. the air in the room. if it'll save me from having to run 2 a.c.'s in there (about 21,000 btu total) ... that electricity could be better used. if i had a 'dual-line' portable a.c. that doesn't displace much (or any) of the rooms air... i'd prolly be happier.
.


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## DaGambler (Jun 1, 2009)

Smokiethebear said:


> Its hard out here for a gangsta yo I too do the numbers every night I got a calculator sittin on my night stand lol Im not trying to hit 6 figures Im looking for mid 5s Im about to order 7packs of bean in the next week or so till trying to plan my room out but I got sometime I cant start up for a couple months


the legit business venture that i have in mind will probably run about 35-40k start-up costs. (renting / leasing) that's the goal. if i can hit that mark then i'll shut things down ... and give the legal enterprise a go. I'd have to feel real real secure just to grow again for my own pleasure. but to each their own.
.


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## DaGambler (Jun 1, 2009)

tilemaster said:


> ya its def possible...my caregiver has like 4 different large fans all connected to atmospheric controllers..and hes pushing his exhaust right thro his roof..not into his attic where it would be bottled up....everthing is proffessionally daisy chained..wish i had a pic for u..it amazed me..and him, that I wuz runnin a/c and he didnt have too..30x20 room..10 lamps..tripped me out..his intake is right thro his sideing 8''..and on the shaded side of his house down low..but he does complain about low RH and seein brown spotting and dry leafs due to the low RH and from wut he says too much air flow...
> 
> well i hope the clones take for u...and u can manage getting the 12 incher..im sure thatll help..and the other lamp...shuffle, split the deck, place ur bets..here we go TM


ya, i exhaust right under the roofs overhang, not into the attic. and the intake should be fairly cool as it either comes through the house or from under the house... the only problem there is that i have 5 ballasts down there heating things up... but that area is still probably as low as the outdoor temps.

i'm not worried about the clones... at day 14 deffinitely more than 90 percent are all showing signs of very active growth. I'll probably only lose a couple. And i cloned a couple extra.

"...shuffle, split the deck, place ur bets..here we go TM"

  
.


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## Smokiethebear (Jun 1, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> the legit business venture that i have in mind will probably run about 35-40k start-up costs. (renting / leasing) that's the goal. if i can hit that mark then i'll shut things down ... and give the legal enterprise a go. I'd have to feel real real secure just to grow again for my own pleasure. but to each their own.
> .


I hear that I gotta get some major debt paid down so Im just gonna say fuck it and run for about 2 years Im not trying to get greedy


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## DaGambler (Jun 1, 2009)

2 weeks into Flower... the "Urge" finally became unresistable. I went into a Rage and quickly topped (or 'supercropped') the tallest and lankiest plants. i can't stand having an uneven canopy. i also started putting risers under the shorter plants... cheap 1 dollar tuppeware type containers (put under the buckets) that boost the plants from 3" to 10" off the ground. Well worth a dollar apiece. And i raised up the plants 'at the ends of the runs' in order to get a bit of a stadium effect going - i'd rather the light be hitting the plants than the walls.
.


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## JACKMAYOFFER (Jun 1, 2009)

You are my hero I hope my crop looks half as good !!Its hard sleeping at night knowing whats going to happen when my girls start to flower!!!


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## DaGambler (Jun 2, 2009)

JACKMAYOFFER said:


> You are my hero I hope my crop looks half as good !!Its hard sleeping at night knowing whats going to happen when my girls start to flower!!!


heheh. funny stuff man. i'm happy for you. it sounds like ur first major crop. it beats being kept awake at night from paranoia, i would guess. once you've harvested a couple crops i'm afraid to say you will probably start to see what isn't there, rather than what is. least, that's the habit i seem to have gotten into. but i'm deffinitely following ur grow.
.


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## tilemaster (Jun 2, 2009)

Time to double down


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## GypsyBush (Jun 3, 2009)

Just took a look at your last pics... 

Real nice work man... I wish my shit was that neat...

Everything looks super healthy...

So I just skimmed through, but did I hear you mention the words heat & ac..

Have you considered using a radiator to cool your op? as user SOG is doing...

I think it is a brilliant way to cool a sealed room...

Anyways... back to trimming the Oz of the day...lol.... 

Oh I meant to ask you... what is the reason why you chose not to go perpetual?

Cheers Bro..! Keep up the GREAT work!


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## DaGambler (Jun 4, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Oh I meant to ask you... what is the reason why you chose not to go perpetual?
> 
> Cheers Bro..! Keep up the GREAT work!


dang it. guess i'ma have to work a bit harder to earn the title
'King of the Perpetual Grow' 

my op is very much perpetual bro. i'm currently looking at a 73 day average turnover time. ie; i flower for 63 days... then have 10 days to harvest, transplant the clones into the flower room, veg for a few days, then flip to 12/12 again. i take clones the day before (or the same day) that i flip to 12/12. the clones are vegged in a separate room.... this time it will be 5 weeks under flouros... then 4 weeks under the 1k HPS.... then transplanted into the 6k flower room. I'm currently transitioning from 5k to 6k in the flower room. i'm looking for 5 crops a year (5 x 73 days equals 365 days). If all goes well with the new 12" inline fan... i'll no longer have to worry about 'cooling' the op at all... air conditioning free flower room is the goal. You can see both rooms of the perpetual grow up and running in the YouTube video in my signature... though sans the 1k HPS i'll be adding to the center of the clone room. Currently i have 192 'mommies' and around 238 clones. Both are at Day 17.
.


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## M Blaze (Jun 4, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> air conditioning free flower room is the goal.


I have never used an aircon in any of my grow rooms and one of them a few years back was 8400 watts during flower. We never had any major heat issues and had a massive yield.

Your garden is looking amazing bro so keep up the good work.

Cheers


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## DaGambler (Jun 4, 2009)

M Blaze said:


> I have never used an aircon in any of my grow rooms and one of them a few years back was 8400 watts during flower. We never had any major heat issues and had a massive yield.


thanks Gypsy and M for the kind words. That 8.4k would of been something to behold. Feel free to provide a more detailed description of that setup 

Okay, so here is the current setup after i stopped using A.C....







I just removed the intake hoses from the vents placed through the floor ... and hung the intake hoses toward the ceiling to pull the warmer air. The 6" intake vents have a screen as well as a cheap air filter on the outside. They just pull air from directly below the house.







i've been running this way for several days now... the temperatures are staying the same as it did with air conditioning. The (2) 400+ cfm fans are pulling enough air to keep the 5 lights cool that are now running. The humidity is also much better than it was before and stays down around 50 percent. with this working fine... i'm awaiting a 1000+ cfm fan so that i can add a 6th light, spacing two out in the center of the room. I do believe i was wasting quite a bit of money on a.c. But i will also have to run my ozone generator a bit more... and i'm going to have to consider using carbon filters over (or before) all 3 exhaust points.
.


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## slipperyP (Jun 4, 2009)

Just saw the video for the first time...Damn nice and professional....Thanks for the look inside


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## M Blaze (Jun 4, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> thanks Gypsy and M for the kind words. That 8.4k would of been something to behold. Feel free to provide a more detailed description of that setup


That pic of your overall setup just looks amazing.

The 8.4k setup was nothing special really, it just had 2 big ass charcoal filters and that was it. It was basically the same setup as our last Jack Herer grow but with more lights.


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## Smokiethebear (Jun 4, 2009)

I got a question for you Im planing on running three 600s with one 6in fan to cool the hoods the intake from that fan will be on one side of the attic pulling from a vent the exhaust going out the other side of the attic out a vent....Do you think that will keep things cool enough in the summer? and will the cold winter air be too cold for the lights?.....Im also going to have another 6in fan hooked to a carbon scruber on a temp controler


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## Smokiethebear (Jun 4, 2009)

I also ment to ask how loud it is inside and out side when all your shit is running


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## DaGambler (Jun 5, 2009)

Smokiethebear said:


> I got a question for you Im planing on running three 600s with one 6in fan to cool the hoods the intake from that fan will be on one side of the attic pulling from a vent the exhaust going out the other side of the attic out a vent....Do you think that will keep things cool enough in the summer? and will the cold winter air be too cold for the lights?.....Im also going to have another 6in fan hooked to a carbon scruber on a temp controler


a 400+ cfm fan should cool those lights well enough... but the question is how you will climate control the rest of the room. if you are growing -in- the attic you might be in for a real fight in the summertime. if so, then try just leaving the intake side of the first bulb unattached... so that it cools the room as well. Fresh air will still be pulled in the intake vent ... and pushed directly out the exhaust vent from the ducted lamps. Just exhaust through the carbon filter non-stop via this method... and one fan alone would do the trick. That's if your attic doesn't get ridiculously hot.
.


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## Old Frog (Jun 5, 2009)

"The Urge"...hilarious. OCD at its best! Any new vids lately?


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## DaGambler (Jun 5, 2009)

Smokiethebear said:


> I also ment to ask how loud it is inside and out side when all your shit is running


the fans use insulated ducting... and are attached to the ceiling/outside with insulated box 'flanges'. the ballasts are located remotely under the house... and i have placed r30 insulation all around the skirting. You'd have to be within 7 feet of the house on the noisiest (back)side ... to be able to hear any type of 'humming' at all. You could literally be touching the house on any other side and still not hear anything. i don't hear anything when i am inside unless i am standing right in the flower room.
.


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## DaGambler (Jun 5, 2009)

Old Frog said:


> "The Urge"...hilarious. OCD at its best! Any new vids lately?


this isn't the first time that you seem to have spotted my true nature 

if i do another video... it won't be until this crop is nearing maturity. how goes ur garden? i havn't seen any updates lately in my subscribed list... hopefully it didn't get bumped off somehow.

(EDIT: oh, shit... guess i get to be one of the first to see the new you !!)
.


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## GypsyBush (Jun 5, 2009)

You have a beautiful room my friend...

I guess I used the wrong terminology...

I was wondering why you choose to harvest all at once, instead of a staggered harvest... like say every 2 or 3 weeks...

Just curious...

I've been pulling a few girls every day...

In fact, I just posted some pre-trim pics... of today's catch...

Cheers Bro!


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## Old Frog (Jun 5, 2009)

Wouldn't ya know it, gonna summer-grow after all...


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## M Blaze (Jun 5, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> You have a beautiful room my friend...
> 
> I guess I used the wrong terminology...
> 
> ...


 
Too much work too often lol.


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## DaGambler (Jun 5, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I was wondering why you choose to harvest all at once, instead of a staggered harvest... like say every 2 or 3 weeks...


good question man... (and what ur doing is deffinitely working for you !!) i've considered it many times... i guess its basically because i am lazy. the way i do it now i only have to stay focused and "get'r done" for about 10 days every couple months. the rest of the time all i have to do is water the clones every other day... and water the moms every other day or every third day. 

i think its also about economy of motion... or... economy of scale. i poke holes in all the clone cups at one time. i prepare all the medium at once. i take all the clones at once. i only have to mix up the clone solution once. I harvest all the plants at once. I think i'd go insane if i had to do all that stuff every few days. It'd be like a never-ending to-do list. and i already have a full-time 9 to 5 job.

but ever since i was like 18 (the last 16 years)... i've had this recurring dream of walking down a dark path in a secret marijunana garden... a garden in which the plants are all neatly arranged by height... and go from shortest to tallest (different ages). sorry, just felt like sharing 
.


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## DaGambler (Jun 5, 2009)

Old Frog said:


> Wouldn't ya know it, gonna summer-grow after all...


Suh-weet. i had my fingers crossed  ur new setup is Supa-Clean !
.


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## GypsyBush (Jun 5, 2009)

Oh I hear that!!!

That is a nice dream...

I am walking better, but no where near ready to get back to what I do for work...

So I guess I am thankful to have something to keep me busy on an everyday basis...


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## DaGambler (Jun 5, 2009)

hell yeah man. if this were my only past-time... (and i didn't have a bunch of other crap consuming my time) i think i'd lean toward ur style of doing things.
.


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## Smokiethebear (Jun 5, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> a 400+ cfm fan should cool those lights well enough... but the question is how you will climate control the rest of the room. if you are growing -in- the attic you might be in for a real fight in the summertime. if so, then try just leaving the intake side of the first bulb unattached... so that it cools the room as well. Fresh air will still be pulled in the intake vent ... and pushed directly out the exhaust vent from the ducted lamps. Just exhaust through the carbon filter non-stop via this method... and one fan alone would do the trick. That's if your attic doesn't get ridiculously hot.
> .


Nahh the grow room is a spare bedroom I wanted to cool the light with out having to use 2 carbon scrubers(thats why I was going to intake and exhust through the attic) but the more I think about it I like your way better...So you think I should scrub the air on the exhust side and not the intake side of the hoods?

PS I know your grow journal isnt the place for this questions but you seem to know what you are doing so I wanted your point of veiw


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## Old Frog (Jun 5, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> but ever since i was like 18 (the last 16 years)... i've had this recurring dream of walking down a dark path in a secret marijunana garden... a garden in which the plants are all neatly arranged by height... and go from shortest to tallest (different ages). sorry, just felt like sharing
> .


Dream realized, just look at that video again... Mark it dude.


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## DaGambler (Jun 5, 2009)

Smokiethebear said:


> Nahh the grow room is a spare bedroom I wanted to cool the light with out having to use 2 carbon scrubers(thats why I was going to intake and exhust through the attic) but the more I think about it I like your way better...So you think I should scrub the air on the exhust side and not the intake side of the hoods?


going up into the attic is a great idea... especially if ur actually going straight up to the vents in the attic that lead outside. it really shouldn't matter where the scrubber is at as long as its in the exhaust loop at some point. just depends on how long the run is ... and how many twists and turns you've got in the ducting ... and how much the carbon reduces the cfm... etc... on whether or not one fan alone will do the trick. some hoods are a lot more aerodynamic as well. cooltubes don't produce much drag at all... especially the 8" ones w/1k HPS lamps... though the 6" ones should work pretty well w/600w HPS bulbs.
.


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## DaGambler (Jun 5, 2009)

Old Frog said:


> Dream realized, just look at that video again... Mark it dude.


dreams can potentially turn into nightmares... i'm hoping to awake one day... feeling refreshed. 
.


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## tilemaster (Jun 5, 2009)

are u worried u may become ur avatar pic? lol



DaGambler said:


> dreams can potentially turn into nightmares... i'm hoping to awake one day... feeling refreshed.
> .


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## DaGambler (Jun 6, 2009)

tilemaster said:


> are u worried u may become ur avatar pic? lol


wouldn't you be ? 

but i'd never become -that- guy. he has the word "FUN" written on his chin... by his mouth... so apparently that is the 'Fun Hole'...

and 'Property of Jolene' written on his forehead... and the name "Jolene" has the name Jo in it... hmmm...

might as well put me away for murder.

(EDIT: though the resemblance, otherwise, is uncanny )
.


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## GypsyBush (Jun 6, 2009)

quoted from another thread... 






GypsyBush said:


> What is paranoia?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## DaGambler (Jun 6, 2009)

And my personal favorite...

"Just because you're paranoid... doesn't mean that you aren't being followed."

heheh, love that NORML poster.
.


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## M Blaze (Jun 6, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> And my personal favorite...
> 
> "Just because you're paranoid... doesn't mean that you aren't being followed."
> 
> ...


That reminds me of a quote from a movie but I cant remember what movie its from ''Just coz im being paranoid doesnt mean that people arnt trying to kill me''


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## MediMary (Jun 6, 2009)

that norml poster is hilarious, Just stopping through DG..everything lookin top notch man = )
hey dg what other types of growing have you done(aero, dwc, top drip, soil?)

peace n luv..

hey Gypsy B them some nice plants you have as well


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## DaGambler (Jun 6, 2009)

aside from Hempy Buckets... i've just grown in soil... and did a short run with a nft gutter setup. (Nutrient Film Technique) DIY'ed some rain gutters to hold 16 oz. cups... had 6 gutters holding 12 plants each under 3k lights.
.


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## shnkrmn (Jun 7, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> aside from Hempy Buckets... i've just grown in soil... and did a short run with a nft gutter setup. (Nutrient Film Technique) DIY'ed some rain gutters to hold 16 oz. cups... had 6 gutters holding 12 plants each under 3k lights.
> .


So how did that work out for you?

I've been wondering too about a comment you made a while back about only getting 1-1.5 oz per plant? C'mon man, you are joking, right? I know I'm pulling 3-4 per plant right now, so what's the difference between you and me? Everything you do looks great, whereas I am a total hack. I probably veg longer but that's all I can think of . . .

Sincerely,
Puzzled


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## DaGambler (Jun 7, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> So how did that work out for you?
> 
> I've been wondering too about a comment you made a while back about only getting 1-1.5 oz per plant? C'mon man, you are joking, right? I know I'm pulling 3-4 per plant right now, so what's the difference between you and me? Everything you do looks great, whereas I am a total hack. I probably veg longer but that's all I can think of . . .


it didn't work out for me... i decided to take a break from growing and closed up shop about 3 weeks into flowering. (Many years ago.)

As far as weight per plant... check out Gypsy's thread and you can see that he is often only getting 9-16 grams per plant... no veg time... flower straight from clone. That doesn't mean his gram-per-watt sux az. The question is how much total are you yielding per light... per day. If ur getting a lb. from a 1000w bulb every 73 days ur doing alright. If you can get a lb. off a 600w bulb then ur doing great. Growing more plants just allows you to fill in a 'sea of green' more quickly than vegging the plants for a longer period of time.

How much are you pulling per harvest with the lights that you are using? I don't doubt that your efficiency may be greater than mine... but i usually do alright. 

(EDIT: oh, snap, didn't even see who posted the query...  i follow ur grow dude. looks like you've been increasing ur numbers as of late... I would just guess that i'm not vegging my plants out as long and that they have to fight their neighbors more. my 'per plant' average for the current grow is deffinitely going to go down even further... but then, i'm also running over 2.5 times as many plants this run as i did last run. but i'm still wanting to know what your average yield is per light. heheh. and ur not a 'hack' ... ur one of my Hempy mentors  how long you gonna veg those girls for in the 5 gal. buckets?) 
.


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## DaGambler (Jun 7, 2009)

Here is a Very Nice way of determining a gardens true efficiency as explained by - babygro - (thanks man)

"There's a much more sophisticated system for calculating 'grow room efficiency' that does factor in the flowering time as well as lighting wattage -

-=- Grow Room Efficiency Calculator -=-
(Grams Per Kilowatt Hour or "GPkWh")

You need figures for -

Total light wattage
Total flowering time in days
Light cycle hours
Total yield in grams

For example. A 600w HPS system used on a 12/12 hourly cycle in flowering for 60 days which produces 20ozs (560g) of dry bud.

1) Divide total lamp wattage by 1000 to get Kw/h.
600w/1000 = 0.6.

2) Multiply this figure by the hours of the light cycle.
0.6 x 12 = 7.2

3) Multiply this figure by the number of days in flowering.
7.2 x 60 = 432

4) Now divide the *gram* yield figure by the kilowatt figure.
560g / 432 = 1.29. That's 1.29g per K/w 

Experienced growers should be shooting for a GE (Garden Efficiency) rating of 1.0, so anything over 1.0 is very good going."

- - -

So for my last grow i had lets say (4) 1k lights (was down to 3 then went to 5) ... was on 12/12 light cycle ... for 63 days ... and got around 2000 grams.

so '4' 1k lights x 12 hours flowers (48 ) x 63 days flowering ='s 3024

2000g / 3024 = 0.66 gram per kWh ... deffinitely room for improvement. but i'm always happy getting a lb. per 1k HPS light. And my Garden Efficiency would go down even further (a bad thing) if you factor in the fact that i actually take 73 (not 63) days to flip from the start of one crop to the start of the next crop. this would improve if i used supplemental CO2. This formula should really be the Gold Standard for determining a perpetual gardens efficiency, thanks again babygro.

(EDIT: so my GPkWh is actually closer to 0.57 when adjusted to the actual 73 day turnover time... 'cuz it takes a few days to clear things out and start over again... and i run the lights for 24/0 for the first few days. While this method may be fairly instrumental in determing the flower rooms efficiency... it still doesn't take into consideration wether or not you are buying clones... or having to spend money on a clone and veg setup in order to keep your flowering room occupied. If it did... then clone buyers would have a deffinite advantage over those that must grow from seed or clone under additional wattages of lighting. What's -YOUR- flower rooms Gram Per Kilowat Hour efficiency?)


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## shnkrmn (Jun 8, 2009)

Yes, I am growing the size of my op right now. Partly because you egged me on! I currently have 5 plants under 2 600s. Vegging under another 600. Started flowering on April 10, they were cloned in late January. So 8/9 weeks vegging. I'll yield 20 oz. Lined up right behind those are 15 more which were cloned April 1, from the current flowering batch. They will have 90 days veg because I wanted to finish my current flower (I hate mixing and staggering grows, I always fuck up the nutrients) and I'll be away the last week of June. Then I come back and chop and put in the15 for my 'October Surprise'. I still have 15 MORE clones, that I haven't put in big containers yet, so I guess I'm cloned up for the rest of the year!

Anyway, the big plant versus small plant question is one I only know one side of; I've never grown small plants and I'm sure I could turn crops around faster that way, but it's a huge shift in thinking. Plus, a sea of green just doesn't take the breath away like a sea of redwoods!



DaGambler said:


> it didn't work out for me... i decided to take a break from growing and closed up shop about 3 weeks into flowering. (Many years ago.)
> 
> As far as weight per plant... check out Gypsy's thread and you can see that he is often only getting 9-16 grams per plant... no veg time... flower straight from clone. That doesn't mean his gram-per-watt sux az. The question is how much total are you yielding per light... per day. If ur getting a lb. from a 1000w bulb every 73 days ur doing alright. If you can get a lb. off a 600w bulb then ur doing great. Growing more plants just allows you to fill in a 'sea of green' more quickly than vegging the plants for a longer period of time.
> 
> ...


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## GypsyBush (Jun 8, 2009)

The thing that gets me going is the NO VEG part...

I mean I keep moms vegging... but that is just a 400w T-5...

I wanted to grow some trees like MBlaze does...

But that would mean 5 to 6 months without a harvest...

I just cannot justify vegging, at all...

Not when I get to chop an oz a day... without it...

That is my side of the coin...


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## DaGambler (Jun 8, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I wanted to grow some trees like MBlaze does...


thanks 4 the update shkrmn. your 4 oz girls are just spoiled with love, that's all 

i love seeing mary jane outdoors in its full splendor... i just think that indoor growing has some limitations. i've seen plants get 5' tall and only have decent growth on the top 3' from the limit of the lights penetration. meaning that the other two feet was just wasted veg time. now if you have vertical sources of light... etc. that might not happen. but i think you'd have to actually work out a gardens GPkWh efficiency to get an idea of what you might be missing out on by vegging too long ... or not vegging long enough. Or having more or less plants under a given amount of light. For me, at least, i'm interested in maximum yield ... with MINIMAL work  on the backdrop of turn-around-time.
.


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## bryant228 (Jun 8, 2009)

Nice operation man. Very nice. And very clean. And tons of great advice. Thanks for keeping it going.


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## shnkrmn (Jun 8, 2009)

_ think I started growing big plants because I had a hard time making up my mind to flip to bloom. I'll calculate my efficiency for this cycle even though it won't be stellar. Next go round should fill a large trash sack. I just updated my grow journal. Check it out, man.

_


GypsyBush said:


> The thing that gets me going is the NO VEG part...
> 
> I mean I keep moms vegging... but that is just a 400w T-5...
> 
> ...


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## DaGambler (Jun 9, 2009)

bryant228 said:


> Nice operation man. Very nice. And very clean. And tons of great advice. Thanks for keeping it going.


thanks man. i try to resist giving advice... but am not always successful  but i know that unsolicited advice can be pretty damn annoying. so i apologize for popping into other people's threads and journals and picking things apart. its just my nature  i'm an opinion with an arsehole. or is that arsehole with an opinion ?!
.


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## erkelsgoo420 (Jun 9, 2009)

Feel free to spread ur asshole opinions all over my journal lol its always welcome... Anyhow I'm definetly scribed to this one. U got balls for sure.. How's the powerbill now? Lol gl peace and smoke


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## Smokiethebear (Jun 9, 2009)

Anything new going on bro? Whats up with that new fan and 6th light?


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## shnkrmn (Jun 9, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> thanks man. i try to resist giving advice... but am not always successful  but i know that unsolicited advice can be pretty damn annoying. so i apologize for popping into other people's threads and journals and picking things apart. its just my nature  i'm an opinion with an arsehole. or is that arsehole with an opinion ?!
> .


Dude, I always want your advice. You may have called me one of your 'hempy mentors' but you have a much wider and longer experience to draw from than I do and you are pretty articulate with what you share. 




Plus you have huge brass balls.


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## DaGambler (Jun 11, 2009)

erkelsgoo420 said:


> ... How's the powerbill now? Lol gl peace and smoke


actually, its getting pretty ugly. i didn't intend to pull this much juice. the last bill was for 600 bones at 13 cents per kWh. i'ma have to try to cut down on the non-essentials.
.


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## erkelsgoo420 (Jun 11, 2009)

Jesus is that double triple? Lol I would be careful with that one or put fans in every window and have like six ac plugged in but off so if they ask questions u can point to the acs and slam the door haha . U guys got balls I'm trippin over 4 plants and a 250w that cost maybe 10 bucks a month in veg and I'm medical... Idk how u sleep lol


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## DaGambler (Jun 11, 2009)

DAY 23:



Smokiethebear said:


> Anything new going on bro? Whats up with that new fan and 6th light?


just for you i took the day off work to get this crap done... good lord it was alotta work. envision me sliding a 7' ladder in and out of the canopy of chains...







Red circles were the existing 6" 400+ cfm exhausts ... each clearing two 1k lights. Blue circle is the new 12" 1000+ cfm room exhaust... A.C. will no longer be used. The Yellow circle is the ozone generator placed at the highest point (about 13' at room peak).







And so i have added a 6th light. Where there was one in the center ... there are now 2 spaced apart in the center of the room. I have no more electricity to spare. I can upgrade no further. And i wouldn't even if i could ... 'cuz my electrical consumption is already higher than i would like.







Back up to 240 clones ... thought a couple of the replacements wouldn't make it ... but they did. Unfortunately the mommies in the flower room aren't doing as well. I am having pH problems. Some of them are doing "The Claw". I'm working on it.
.


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## erkelsgoo420 (Jun 11, 2009)

I envy that setup.. That sucks about the mothers but I'm sure they'll pull through and if they don't u got pleany of new ones to pick from.. Keep at it lookin good


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## Mammath (Jun 11, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> DAY 23:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pic bump.

Damn!

If we ever have to move to Mars, you won't have to change a thing Gambler 

Hell of a set up.


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## Smokiethebear (Jun 11, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> DAY 23:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lookin good yo....whats your temps running since you axed the ol AC? has that big ass fan added any noise? what are you gonna do with all them clones you gonna double up again?


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## Old Frog (Jun 11, 2009)

The new 1ks in the center of the room are going to be vented, or you're leaving it be for now DaG? What kind of heat do they alone produce in the room? Negligible amounts? 

How's that 12" 1000cfm pull with all the lights attached? Are the four 1ks spidered out with the insulated ducting forming a kind of X pattern into the the one central 12" duct, or...? Where's all that heat going now? Out the rooftop I assume? 

What's the ozone running at? On a timer, and how many times/day/whatever? Have you already got some CO2 in the room that I don't know about? 

Looks like that room's approaching sun-quality light. Launch that sucker into the stratosphere in case we need a spare, will ya?


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## DaGambler (Jun 13, 2009)

Smokiethebear said:


> Lookin good yo....whats your temps running since you axed the ol AC?


It was nice and warm today ... about 98 degrees outside. The flower room peaked at 91.7 degrees before shutting down at 1:45 in the afternoon. That's good enuf for me. i saw temps as high as 94 even with the 13k btu a.c. running. The highest humidity was at around 73... which kinda sux but i have lots of air flow... and use a ozone generator and a sulphur vaporiser. It generally runs 60 or less. 

"has that big ass fan added any noise?"

the fan was 'disconcerting' at first  like a jet engine... if you placed your hand a bit too close to the intake it'll suck ur ass in. loud. thankfully i'm using insulated ducting so you can't hear it outside. and i added a 12" by 24" floor vent with an air filter for the intake in the flower room. so that i can close the door even when the lights are running. the fan runs constantly. the air below the house is deffinitely cooler than the air outside... but i've also got 6 or 7 ballasts sitting down there. All of the intakes draw from below the house.

"what are you gonna do with all them clones you gonna double up again?"

yes, i do believe that i shall be Doubling Down 

just ordered some new perlite today. i'd like to avoid some of these pH issues next time.
.


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## DaGambler (Jun 13, 2009)

Old Frog said:


> The new 1ks in the center of the room are going to be vented, or you're leaving it be for now DaG? What kind of heat do they alone produce in the room? Negligible amounts?


I have two 400+ cfm fans ... each clearing two lamps... through 6" insulated ducting by drawing air from beneath the house via 6" floorvents and pushing it out via a 6" insulated box flange to just under the overhang. The two lamps in the center of the room are in the cheapest reflectors ever created by man and are unvented. That's okay. The 1000+ cfm fan is capable of pulling their heat as well as the excess heat from the cooltubes and the heat radiating up off of the floor from the 6 or 7 ballasts running down there.

"What's the ozone running at? On a timer, and how many times/day/whatever? Have you already got some CO2 in the room that I don't know about?" 

Its still running at the highest i had it when i was deep into flowering. It's a UvonAir3000 ... running at:

15 min. ON 45 min. OFF
15 min. ON 45 min. OFF
15 min. ON 45 min. OFF
30 min. ON 45 min. OFF (repeat)

but just 15 minutes out of every hour would do wonders.

No CO2 ... nor plans for any. I've got bookoo air flow at this point. It's as good as mother nature on that front at least.

"Looks like that room's approaching sun-quality light. Launch that sucker into the stratosphere in case we need a spare, will ya? " 

No doubt. Right now we got - all of our eggs - in one basket. If we were halfway intelligent we'd be making colonization priority one. 
.


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## tilemaster (Jun 13, 2009)

Nice additions Gambler..im dumping my window a/c unit next week..thank God!


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## Smokiethebear (Jun 13, 2009)

New perlite huhh? I guess that means you wont be reusing it again....I kinda hate to hear that I was wanting to try hempys and was hoping I could reuse it.... that was the main reason for changing from soil I hate having to find a place to dump the shit all the time


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## DaGambler (Jun 13, 2009)

Smokiethebear said:


> New perlite huhh? I guess that means you wont be reusing it again....I kinda hate to hear that I was wanting to try hempys and was hoping I could reuse it.... that was the main reason for changing from soil I hate having to find a place to dump the shit all the time


i'll still plan on using the new stuff at least twice as well. and at least it doesn't weigh a ton. i don't know how well my floor would even support actual dirt -- while perlite is almost weightless. maybe i'll blow the used stuff into the attic and use it as insulation 
.


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## GypsyBush (Jun 13, 2009)

Hey DG...

Just wanted to invite you over to peek at my newest update... lots of pics as usual..

Cheers Bro!



https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/167596-gypsys-picture-depot-52.html


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## Smokiethebear (Jun 13, 2009)

Wonder if you could clean it like maybe in the bath tub with some pH'ed water and some bleach....do you think you are having the pH problem because you reuse? I used to only check my ph like once after the first month but with dro you have to alway be fuckin with it right?


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## DaGambler (Jun 14, 2009)

Smokiethebear said:


> Wonder if you could clean it like maybe in the bath tub with some pH'ed water and some bleach....do you think you are having the pH problem because you reuse? I used to only check my ph like once after the first month but with dro you have to alway be fuckin with it right?


my water is about 500 ppm w/o being RO'd. If i used it to wash down all the media ... I'd just be exchanging one type of mineral build-up for another. I'm having the pH problem because i'm too lazy to check run-off. I've been just guessing at what they need. And i've been going overboard on the pH-Up. So right now they are sitting in some 900 ppm juice that's at about 6.7 pH. That might be alright for a soil setup... but perlite should run closer to hydroponic ranges of 5.9 to 6.3 -- so now i'll have to water with just plain RO water and pH-Down. I'm too lazy to flush 100+ 3 gal. containers (with how many gallons of RO water?) ... so they'll have to just work their way through the adjustment.

with 'true' hydroponics you'd want to prolly check the pH of the solution at least once a day. with 'manual hydroponics' ... i just have to adjust the solution as needed when i water every 3 days.
.


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## DaGambler (Jun 14, 2009)

testing, testing, one, two, three...

[youtube]_BzZhNLu9BU&feature=related[/youtube]

(EDIT: Thanks for the tip on putting up videos, Gypsy.)

.


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## GypsyBush (Jun 14, 2009)

FUCKING AWESOME BRO!!!

I hope to see more and more vids...


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## tilemaster (Jun 14, 2009)

same vid youve had??? either way i meant to rep u for the music u streamed in2 it..bad ass..alhtough the vid tour is kinda fuzzy i notice in ur flower room..could it be the bright ass simulation of the sarengeti sun you got going? heeh..anyway check my journal out Gambler 105 pg 106..your missing the tragic conclusion..see this is wut happens when u roll the dice..................................


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## DaGambler (Jun 18, 2009)

Day 28 - Video Update:

[youtube]Z4sBZmTYmlI[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4sBZmTYmlI
.


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## DaGambler (Jun 18, 2009)

tilemaster said:


> same vid youve had??? either way i meant to rep u for the music u streamed in2 it..bad ass..alhtough the vid tour is kinda fuzzy i notice in ur flower room..could it be the bright ass simulation of the sarengeti sun you got going? heeh..anyway check my journal out Gambler 105 pg 106..your missing the tragic conclusion..see this is wut happens when u roll the dice..................................


glad things turned out well for you. ur on a happy path being a medical grower.
.


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## JACKMAYOFFER (Jun 18, 2009)

Holy shit thats one hell of a grow op ..Is 28 days the time you flipped them or the time you first seen pre flowers?Fucking incrediable brother


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## DaGambler (Jun 18, 2009)

JACKMAYOFFER said:


> Holy shit thats one hell of a grow op ..Is 28 days the time you flipped them or the time you first seen pre flowers?Fucking incrediable brother


Day 1 is the day that the clones were cut... and the day that the Mother's received their first 12 hours of the 12/12 light cycle. That way ... you can count up to day 63 and know when its time to harvest.

(EDIT: though co2 may trim 1 or 2 weeks off ur flower time.)
.


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## JACKMAYOFFER (Jun 18, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> Day 1 is the day that the clones were cut... and the day that the Mother's received their first 12 hours of the 12/12 light cycle. That way ... you can count up to day 63 and know when its time to harvest.
> 
> (EDIT: though co2 may trim 1 or 2 weeks off ur flower time.)
> .


 I posted this in my journal hope you dont mind me posting it in yours..
Before I hit the lights I noticed some nats flying around .The Hydro store gave me some sponges that you add to the water it supose to have something that kills all the nat larvie I cant remember the name. I remember reading in your journal that you used something to kill nats cant remember the name..


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## DaGambler (Jun 19, 2009)

JACKMAYOFFER said:


> I remember reading in your journal that you used something to kill nats cant remember the name..


i'm having a lot of "Page can't be found" errors since this new server went up... anyways...

as i've said before... make sure you don't use neem oil in your reservoir - its just meant to be a foliar spray. Malathion (50/50) from Lowe's or Home Depot can be used as a soil drench... 1 tablespoon per gallon of water in your reservoir kills both adults and larvae. Flypaper is also your friend. As well as diatamaceous earth broadcast on all flat surfaces and floors. Used appropriately... Malathion is the surest way to stop a fungus gnat infestation. The soil drench should thoroughly wet all of the media as well as the bottoms of the containers. Use a foliar spray at the same time and you will have covered all the bases.
.


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## Smokiethebear (Jun 19, 2009)

Badass video I sat here smoked and watched it 3 times lol


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## slipperyP (Jun 19, 2009)

sweet video....wow...good job


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## shnkrmn (Jun 19, 2009)

Great vid, man. I thought you were going to get dizzy and fall over at the end.


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## DaGambler (Jun 19, 2009)

thanks for the feedback... there's two different vids on that page in case you hadn't seen the first one yet... (the first one is around harvest time on the previous crop)

but here's a garden (i guess) i'm glad i don't have going w/over 100 ballasts... and probably (4) 500 gal. rez... and probably around 1500 plants...

YouTube - Cannabis warehouse busted Amsterdam

and i sure as hell hope this fellow had some way of lowering those lights down !!
.


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## slipperyP (Jun 20, 2009)

That is a crazy video....I love the ballast room...holy shit. wow


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## DaGambler (Jun 20, 2009)

slipperyP said:


> That is a crazy video....I love the ballast room...holy shit. wow


no doubt ... just in the last couple seconds you see all three shelving units of ballasts...

anybody got any idea how he was watering these bi-atches? i don't see any drippers... it looks like there is a a small gulley under them... very tight little watering system. when the video first starts they are looking at one giant well lit up area... what's hard to see is that there is another same sized area in the darkness right behind them !!

There are a lot of commercial businesses that use this much electricity no problem. But i sure as hell wouldn't want to pay the electric bill.
.


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## erkelsgoo420 (Jun 20, 2009)

Any updates how's it comin along? I'm in cali right now and I haven't seen mine in like three days tho the wifey says they're doin awesome but the anxiety (sp?) Is killin me.. Anywho bring the bud porn I demand it! Lol. 
Peace and smoke


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## tilemaster (Jun 21, 2009)

can u imagine the final check tho...if it ever came? whooo damn 


DaGambler said:


> But i sure as hell wouldn't want to pay the electric bill.
> .


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## Smokiethebear (Jun 30, 2009)

tilemaster said:


> can u imagine the final check tho...if it ever came? whooo damn


No updates? Everything must be running smooth huhh?


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## DaGambler (Jul 1, 2009)

Smokiethebear said:


> No updates? Everything must be running smooth huhh?


hmmm.... no, not really 

but i guess that's one reason to follow other people's journals, eh? to learn from their mistakes. i'm still learning from mine:

pH problems sca-rewed the final harvest weight (about 18 days from now). many of them stalled completely at a time when they should have been packing on flowers. i just got sloppy and wasn't paying attention to the run-off pH.

i've also decided that i am not happy with these organic nutes (General Hydroponics Flora Nova Grow and Flora Nova Bloom) ... especially in the inert media of perlite. so i'm going to switch back to the chemical G.H. nutes; Flora Micro and Flora Bloom in a 1 to 1 ratio during veg. and a 1 to 2 ratio during the flower cycle (Lucas Formula). If the next crop doesn't go 200 percent better ... i'll look at switching to an automated (as opposed to manual) hydroponic setup. Maybe ebb 'n flow, but i'll give this perlite one more go.

The Clone crop is still looking lovely at least. So brighter days are ahead, i believe. 
The 'lil girls still look much the same, just twice as big: (they grow slow and compact under flouro's)

[youtube]Z4sBZmTYmlI[/youtube]

.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 1, 2009)

Sorry to hear DG. 

Do you incorporate any leaching throughout the grow?

If you are lookin to go e and f, talk to GypsyBush, do you know him?

Maybe you don't need any help, I don't know if you have any experience. He is a great resource though, if you can get past his crabby morning tendencies 

Ah well, keep on keep on. Hope ya do well.


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## DaGambler (Jul 1, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> Do you incorporate any leaching throughout the grow?


i do in the clone room now... after lining those shelves with plastic and putting in a drain line on each... i can get real sloppy watering and even flush a bit if need be. though the media can become a bit water-logged.

that'd be a good reason to go ebb 'n flow though. so pH problems and nute problems can very quickly be remedied.

ya, i'm familiar w/ GypsyBush  he was just trying to talk me into an ebb 'n flow setup the other day.

thanks.
.


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## Smokiethebear (Jul 1, 2009)

Damn that ph shit sucks, I still like the consept of the hemys I guess putting them into action is alittle harder then they look. ebb and flow huhh? I really like old frogs ebb set up. Maybe you could turn the buckets in to a big flood and drain...put lids on the buckets with net pots. they already got holes in them you could put your water lines into then just get a big resevor and pump...idk its probably harder then that but it would be a cool set up if it worked


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## DaGambler (Jul 3, 2009)

Ya, change of plans. If it can go this poorly... i'd say it's broke and it needs fixed. 

I harvest in about 14 days. I'll then be changing over to some sort of Ebb 'N Flow setup. Right now i'm thinking of (2) 5' by 10' "gulleys" with pond liner and using perlite as the medium. Prolly just gonna fill up the gulleys with perlite and transplant directly into that bed of perlite and get rid of the buckets all-together. So now i gotta do a bit more research on the subject and nail down the parts list 

i suppose its about time i gave full hydroponics a chance  lord knows i could use more control over what's happening in the root zone.
.


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## shnkrmn (Jul 3, 2009)

To have stable pH in hempy buckets, you just have to fill the res/water more frequently. This is the real achille's heel of the method if you want to grow more than just a few plants; the work load increases exponentially. I've gone as long as 7 days between waterings and it just isn't good for the plants. Even though they don't get dried out, the pH just gets way off. I'm flowering 15 plants this cycle and that's about as many as I want to work with. If I expanded any further I'd be looking at a single res system (or dirt).

Question for you DG; do you have any experience with using biological controls (predator mites) to combat spider mites? I'm having issues.


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## Thundercat (Jul 3, 2009)

Well damn Gambler all the problems suck man, sorry to hear. Now you've got me rethinking the hempy!! I'm pretty lazy, lol, and I only checked my run off ph once this grow. For all I know it was fucked up the whole time. We'll see what I can afford when the time comes, lol.


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## westhamm1132 (Jul 3, 2009)

nice grow how long till its ready?


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## DaGambler (Jul 3, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> ... I've gone as long as 7 days between waterings and it just isn't good for the plants. Even though they don't get dried out, the pH just gets way off.
> 
> Question for you DG; do you have any experience with using biological controls (predator mites) to combat spider mites? I'm having issues.


ur comment makes me feel better about having jerked off on the pH this round  and about switching to ebb 'n flow.

i have no experience with predators. i used to recommend malathion (as a spray and a soil drench / don't use neem oil as a soil drench !!) ... but i think it would be better to just get a specific solution rather than a broad spectrum pesticide... i believe Gnatrol or a similar product is prolly the best way to go.

but if you have access to predators ... couldn't hurt to try them. i've also kept pests at a minimum by splurging on fly paper en masse. Hang like 5-10 of these in a grow room and you'll be surprised at how many insects you catch over time even when there is no apparent problem.

(EDIT: woops... the question was spider mites, not fungus gnats. i whole-heartedly recommend strong prevention. broadcast diatamaceous earth around the perimeter of the room, the floor, and on all flat surfaces. it kills anything that crawls through it... as well as anything that flies and eventually lands on it. i've heard those are a bitch though... and sometimes the best thing you can do is provide damage control through soaps and such until you can pull the harvest and do a thorough cleaning. And -- you could pyrethrum bomb the hell out of the place ... if you aren't very far into flowering.))
.


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## JACKMAYOFFER (Jul 3, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> To have stable pH in hempy buckets, you just have to fill the res/water more frequently. This is the real achille's heel of the method if you want to grow more than just a few plants; the work load increases exponentially. I've gone as long as 7 days between waterings and it just isn't good for the plants. Even though they don't get dried out, the pH just gets way off. I'm flowering 15 plants this cycle and that's about as many as I want to work with. If I expanded any further I'd be looking at a single res system (or dirt).
> 
> Question for you DG; do you have any experience with using biological controls (predator mites) to combat spider mites? I'm having issues.


 I was told it is much better to use predator mites before you see signs .Usally it is to late by the time you see them to allow the predators to do there job...I use safe clean as a prevenative I spray twice every seven days it smells like lemon and soap and is completly safe for all stages...I will take a picture of the bottle and post in a minute ...


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## GypsyBush (Jul 3, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> I'll then be changing over to some sort of Ebb 'N Flow setup. Right now i'm thinking of (2) 5' by 10' "gulleys" with pond liner and using perlite as the medium. Prolly just gonna fill up the gulleys with perlite and transplant directly into that bed of perlite and get rid of the buckets all-together. So now i gotta do a bit more research on the subject and nail down the parts list
> 
> i suppose its about time i gave full hydroponics a chance  lord knows i could use more control over what's happening in the root zone.
> .


Great to hear you are thinking about doing Ebb Flow...

But may I suggest.. one thing...? 

I would seriously, and I mean WHOLE HEARTEDLY ... consider that you stick your plants in pots...

I will try and find Al B Fuct's looooong ass list on the benefits of using pots... 

But in short... it keeps your plants mobile...

You can remove runts...

Move weak performers into better light...

Pull out any plant at anytime for any reason... trim/prune/inspect

and all that without having to worry about tangled roots... just pull it out...

It's just a suggestion bro... but I think it should at least be considered, for use of ease's sake...

And if you decide to go perpetual, for some reason,... you are all set to move plants about...

Just my thoughts though...


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## DaGambler (Jul 3, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I would seriously, and I mean WHOLE HEARTEDLY ... consider that you stick your plants in pots...
> 
> I will try and find Al B Fuct's looooong ass list on the benefits of using pots...


 
Right on. No problem... i was just thinking i'd be able to transition faster w/o re-using the same pots, but not by much. I could see that there would be some benefits. I'll just drill some holes around the base (very bottom) of all my 3 gal. containers so that the water doesn't have any trouble getting in. That'll keep the perlite out of the rez, more or less, as well. Sound okay?

Suggestions and Feedback Always Appreciated !!!

Just found this Auto Top Off Float Valve for RO systems... so that i can just keep the rez full w/o having to worry about it. The nice thing about this one, rather than just a float, is that you can put it on a timer so that it isn't always trying to fill the rez (like during ebb cycles).







Also going to get one of those dual water meters pH/tds that just stays in the rez... Then i'll run a tube down there so that i can add nutrients as needed. (The rez will be under the house... so i don't want to have to actually go down there except to clean it out between crops.) Also looking at inline UV pumps... for keeping the water clean. My biggest concern right now is keeping bugs and mold and algae and crap out of the rez while its under the house. I'm either going to throw a pond liner in a 300 gal. feed tank that i have... or daisy chain (3) 100 gal. smaller tanks together at their bases with compression fittings... either way, i need to find some way to cover the tanks.
.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 3, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> Right on. No problem... i was just thinking i'd be able to transition faster w/o re-using the same pots, but not by much. I could see that there would be some benefits. I'll just drill some holes around the base (very bottom) of all my 3 gal. containers so that the water doesn't have any trouble getting in. That'll keep the perlite out of the rez, more or less, as well. Sound okay?


I gotta run back and refresh my memory..

I can't remember your exact set up...

but I was thinking that you could just move the current set up into the gulley... with wholes at the bottom of the "buckets" as you say...

I gotta go look man.... I can't even remember how you rootzone and feeding systems are...

fucking gypsies....


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## GypsyBush (Jul 3, 2009)

So you have them all in buckets of perlite?

That is perfect bro! just drop the "pots" in the "tray"...

If I remember correctly from what Dewey said, perlite does not absorb too much... and you can do multiple floods a day... kinda like hydroton...

Every time you flood, you are bringing nutrient rich solution to the roots...

Every time you drain you are bringing fresh air into the root zone...

I have flooded as many as 12x a day... and it worked just fine... other than I had algae start on my tray... so I cut it back and solved that... 

but it wasn't the plants that asked me to cut back..... it was my lazy ass that didn't want to deal with algae...

Ibelieve you will be pleased...



DaGambler said:


> Just found this Auto Top Off Float Valve for RO systems... so that i can just keep the rez full w/o having to worry about it. The nice thing about this one, rather than just a float, is that you can put it on a timer so that it isn't always trying to fill the rez (like during ebb cycles).


I am glad you thought of that...

Here is a drawing by Al B. Fuct that may be of some use...











> Also going to get one of those dual water meters pH/tds that just stays in the rez...


Nice move.. I use and love a hanna Grocheck like this...









> Then i'll run a tube down there so that i can add nutrients as needed. (The rez will be under the house... so i don't want to have to actually go down there except to clean it out between crops.)


I suppose it would be nice to have some way to check the level...

A calibrated stick works well in underground fuel tanks... crude.. but it works...



> Also looking at inline UV pumps... for keeping the water clean. My biggest concern right now is keeping bugs and mold and algae and crap out of the rez while its under the house.


Do you have the res yet?

I would most deff vote for one big one...

But you could use pumps to keep the solution circulating between tanks to have the same effect...

Bigger volumes of solution are more stable in pH, PPM, temperature...

I could easily get away with 30 gal for my 3x3 tray... but I do 70 gal...for that reason and the fact that I do not have to top off... the plants could dring 2x as fast and all I do is check ph and PPM...




> I'm either going to throw a pond liner in a 300 gal. feed tank that i have... or daisy chain (3) 100 gal. smaller tanks together at their bases with compression fittings... either way, i need to find some way to cover the tanks.
> .


I'd love to see pics of your options if you have them...

but as I said.. my vote goes for as big a res as possible without getting too costly on the nutes...


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## erkelsgoo420 (Jul 4, 2009)

Lookin siiiiccckkk. Need more bud porn


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## raiderman (Jul 4, 2009)

mines a hanna also.worth every cent.always make sure you keep the probe in calibration solution always wen not in use , will start giving yu all kinds freaky readings.,happy 4th..pullin out the bigass smoker and 1 pound ribeyees each, marinaded baby backs , brauts , case of heineken , my classic rok station hangin out by the pool.l'll get some poon tang come by,lol,o shit am i not supposed to say that,lol later.R.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 4, 2009)

raiderman said:


> mines a hanna also.worth every cent.always make sure you keep the probe in calibration solution always wen not in use , will start giving yu all kinds freaky readings.


Really?

I'm not saying you didn't have a problem...

It's just that I've never had an issue... 

I bought mine in August... and I have kept it my in my res..24/7... pH 5.8 PPM 1400.. everyday...

I calibrate it once a month and it's hardly ever more than 0.1 off on the pH and within 23~30 on the PPM...

FDD keeps his in his pure RO water top off tank... he told be salt build up ruined his last probe...

But like I said.. mine's been in the res constantly and it has not been a problem...


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## raiderman (Jul 4, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Really?
> 
> I'm not saying you didn't have a problem...
> 
> ...


actually i was referring to not letting it dry out wen removed.calibration fluid is filled in the cap then stored according to the upkeep.that is if you ever jus happen to leave it out,but yurs is a constant emerse.mine is jus a small one..but my grows are small only 54 plants .i only have to water once a week,then thats it.prune and trim.but ive been doin the same type grow since 2001, with minor adjustments to perfection if at all possible,like i said i try to keep it simple,,hava great 4th .Raider.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 4, 2009)

Right on Bro!!! 

I had misunderstood you...

You are absolutely right..

Dry probes are usually probes that need replacing...

Sorry about the confusion...


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## DaGambler (Jul 4, 2009)

raiderman said:


> ...happy 4th..pullin out the bigass smoker and 1 pound ribeyees each, marinaded baby backs , brauts , case of heineken , my classic rok station hangin out by the pool.l'll get some poon tang come by,lol,o shit am i not supposed to say that,lol later.R.


Sounds like the Master Plan, man. A little Heine never hurt anyone 

(EDIT: and it sounds better than my plan; trying to stay cool indoors while eating junk food and drinking diet mt. dew.)







thanks for the previous diagram Gypsy... i like this other one that you posted up as well. All thanks to the Internet Gods... or i'd be back in the Stone Age.
.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 4, 2009)

no problem bro...

I'm just really glad Al B. Fuct left all these great drawings for us...

Here's a bud shot I thought was worth sharing.... 






​


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## DaGambler (Jul 4, 2009)

meh...

if you've seen one you've seen them all.

  .
.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 4, 2009)

No kidding... I better run before people start *yelling* to burn the Gypsy...











​


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## DaGambler (Jul 4, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> No kidding... I better run before people start *yelling* to burn the Gypsy...


heheh... 

a posse is being organized as we speak.

"String up a rope boys, we gonna have us a hang'in !! YEEEE-HAAAH !!!"
.


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## DaGambler (Jul 7, 2009)

okay, so here's the "Going to Hydro" Supply List:

- 300 gal. reservoir.
- (12) 4 cu. ft. bags of sunshine perlite
- (2) 1700 gph water pumps with inline UV and timers
- (3) 10' x 13' pond liners
- (6) 1" x 12" x 10' boards
- 3 dozen clamps for holding liners and cover in place
- 'L' brackets for strengthening side walls of the gulleys
- reservoir cover
- pH and ppm/tds meter that stays submersed
- float valve with solenoid for RO system (and a timer)
- air stone(s) for res.
- 6 gallons each of G.H. Flora Micro and Flora Bloom
- miscelaneous tubing for overflows and inlets
- miscelaneous valves for redirecting water flow

if anyone has any ideas on other usefull or must-have items... holler out loud !! as i am a newbie to hydro... so far GypsyBush and DeweyKox have been very helpful.
.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 7, 2009)

I have no freakin idea but good luck buddy! I am sure you will have success!


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## theloadeddragon (Jul 7, 2009)

the only thing missing from that list is..........................



ME


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## M Blaze (Jul 7, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> okay, so here's the "Going to Hydro" Supply List:
> 
> - 300 gal. reservoir.
> - (12) 4 cu. ft. bags of sunshine perlite
> ...


Just poppin in to see how your goin and then I seen that shopping list you got there and damn its a big one. I dunno how you hydro guys do it but best of luck to ya. My usual shopping list for the hydro shop only includes medium and nutes and thats costly enough for me lol.


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## Smokiethebear (Jul 7, 2009)

You gonna do a screen or let them grow wild?


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## theloadeddragon (Jul 8, 2009)

Smokiethebear said:


> You gonna do a screen or let them grow wild?


Now that gave me a GREAT idea,


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## DaGambler (Jul 8, 2009)

Smokiethebear said:


> You gonna do a screen or let them grow wild?


i'm sure i'll just use 2' bamboo stakes as needed... i've got a couple hundred of those. This clone crop i have been focusing on keeping them short and compact. (I never did hook up the 1k HPS in the clone room, as it has been unnescesary. So that's my back-up ballast.)

so far the only thing i've come up with (for adding to the list) is that i'll probably have to add an aquarium type water heater if the temperatures ever cool down.

i have most of what i need now except the UV water pumps and the tubing, L brackets, boards, and valves.
.


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## theloadeddragon (Jul 8, 2009)

getting under way soon.... sorry if you already said..... what strains?


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## tilemaster (Jul 8, 2009)

Hey DG...hows it going.? hopefully things will cool down in the next 60dayz out here..its been a hot one so far... so how much did that list set u back if you dont mind me asking? so I take it the 10 foot 12'' board you use to create say like a curb, and then u line the floor and sidewalls creating ur own pan liner? thats at least how I interpreted the shopping list, would love to see it once up. much luck TM


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## DaGambler (Jul 9, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> getting under way soon.... sorry if you already said..... what strains?


i've got a bunch of hybrid seeds i've been sitting on that are deffinitely worth growing out.... Durban Poison, White Widow and White Russian were all pollinated with a G13xHash Plant (Mr. Nice) ... which also pollinated its female self. But right now i'm still just growing those base varieties minus the White Widow. (Pure sativa, sativa/indica cross, and a pure indica.)
.


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## theloadeddragon (Jul 9, 2009)

that sounds like a really fun mix. I got into a long conversation yesterday about Mr. Nice Guy....... my friend grows all three (g13, hshplnt,mng) he has like 30 different phenos from 2 years of breeding, he is really happy, so is his club,


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## DaGambler (Jul 9, 2009)

tilemaster said:


> Hey DG...hows it going.? hopefully things will cool down in the next 60dayz out here..its been a hot one so far... so how much did that list set u back if you dont mind me asking? so I take it the 10 foot 12'' board you use to create say like a curb, and then u line the floor and sidewalls creating ur own pan liner? thats at least how I interpreted the shopping list, would love to see it once up. much luck TM


ya, its been averaging 101 here. but i can get used to heat to a degree... i can't get used to cold - its just like Pain to me.  ...w/tax:

$175 - 300 gal. reservoir.
215 - (12) 4 cu. ft. bags of sunshine perlite
360 - (2) 1700 gph water pumps with inline UV and timers
195 - (3) 10' x 13' pond lines
95 - (6) 2" x 12" x 10' boards
30 - 28 clamps for holding liners and cover in place
10 - reservoir cover
120 - pH and ppm/tds and temp meter that stays submersed
120 - float valve with solenoid for RO system (and a timer)
360 - 6 gallons each of G.H. Flora Micro and Flora Bloom
60? - miscelaneous tubing for overflows and inlets
20? - miscelaneous valves for redirecting water flow
50? - aquarium heater
60? - air stone(s) for res. and air pump
14? - 'L' brackets for strengthening side walls of the gulleys

Probably end up costing just under 1500 dollars to make the switch to a true hydroponic setup. Though 500 of that is for the new Nutes which are replaced every other time at most... and the Media which is probably going to be replaced every time. So really around 1000 to go hydro i guess.

Ya, the (6) 2" by 12" by 10' boards will make 2 boxed-in areas on the floor. Each rectangle will be 5' by 10' ... with 12" inch high walls that are 2" inches thick. These two gulleys will then be lined with the pond liner. Two holes will go through the pond liner (and the floor) for the inlet and the overflow. I'll use compression fittings for both. The reservoir will be located under the house. But i'll deff. snap some pics after i get it up. 
.


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## tilemaster (Jul 9, 2009)

Damn thats not shabby for a hydro grow of ur proportions. ive been looking at hydro too, not that im going to concern myself with it quite yet. . . but once ive stacked some well due change, u bet ur ass. i was noticing a complete 4x8 tray w/ rez and plumbing can be up towards 1.5k just alone. so id say ur doing damn good bro on spending


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## DaGambler (Jul 9, 2009)

tilemaster said:


> Damn thats not shabby for a hydro grow of ur proportions. ive been looking at hydro too, not that im going to concern myself with it quite yet. . . but once ive stacked some well due change, u bet ur ass. i was noticing a complete 4x8 tray w/ rez and plumbing can be up towards 1.5k just alone. so id say ur doing damn good bro on spending


i wouldn't mind having 3 of those... 2 lights over each. it'd be a 12' by 8' footprint with them placed all together, which would be perfect. but, ya, i'm not ready to kick out 4.5k. So hopefully the DIY setup will serve it's purpose. Throw up a link if you happen to have one though... i'd like to see what i'm missing out on.

hey, what happened to the Link in your signature? You gonna start a new journal?

thanks, DG
.


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## tilemaster (Jul 9, 2009)

this 1 is like 1 k 115gal rez. 4x8. american agritech. not sure who slangs it or wut link. 


Heres my new DG..my new 1 is already becoming along read. but u should able to see the whole new system on page 1. https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/205555-tms-3k-op-version-2-a.html


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## DaGambler (Jul 10, 2009)

thanks.

here's that link:

http://www.hhydro.com/cgi-bin/hhydro/EBB_FLOW.html?id=tbciB8f8

and i'm getting caught up on ur new journal. good stuff.
.


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## Mcgician (Jul 10, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> ya, its been averaging 101 here. but i can get used to heat to a degree... i can't get used to cold - its just like Pain to me.  ...w/tax:
> 
> $175 - 300 gal. reservoir.
> 215 - (12) 4 cu. ft. bags of sunshine perlite
> ...


Wow man, that's quite an investment, and quite a setup. Huge props. Judging by your list I take it you're going to be using perlite as your medium? Any particular reason why you chose that? IMO, you should either switch to rockwool or coco. Keep in mind though, with coco you'll have to water more frequently as it's got better drainage. I have 30 plants in rockwool and a 70 gallon res....I'm 2 weeks into flowering and the plants are taking almost 10 gallons of water a day! Just keep that in mind. Perlite is even more pronounced when it comes to it's drainage, so if you decide to go that route be prepared to have to keep an extremely mindful watch on the nutrient solution. All the rest you've got going sounds good to me, but I'm no fan of cooltubes. If they're working for you don't change, but I prefer a good reflector and aim to use every watt and lumen I can. Good luck!


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## GypsyBush (Jul 10, 2009)

tilemaster said:


> this 1 is like 1 k 115gal rez. 4x8. american agritech. not sure who slangs it or wut link.



I see the prices on the net too...

But it just seems NUTS!!!!

Take a peek at this...

This info is straight from the BOTANICARE site...

http://www.americanagritech.com/product/product_detail.asp?ID=8&pro_id_pk=52

*22'' x 22'' x 7'' Propagation Tray in White *$49.95* 
24'' x 44'' x 7'' Propagation Tray in White or Black *$74.95* 
36''' x 36'' x 7'' Propagation Tray in White or Black *$109.95* 
48'' x 48'' x 7'' Propagation Tray in White or Black *$154.95* 
72'' x 36'' x 7'' Propagation Tray in White or Black *$189.95 *
96'' x 48'' x 7'' Propagation Tray in White or Black **$279.95*


Even at this place you could get two 4x4 trays for just over $300...

http://www.pchydro.com/grow-systems-trays-c-14_15/4x4-ft-white-grow-tray-p-1474

*4x4 ft White Grow Tray*


* $154.95*





Use this durable White Propagation Tray to create customized ebb and flow or drip systems. Measures 48"x48"x7".



Model: 81
Manufactured by: Botanicare


I paid $79 for my 2x4s..... and $115 for my 3x3s... and that was in ALASKA...

As far as a res... I use the 100 gallon rubbermaid stock tank... cost me $140 bucks.. again... shipped to AK..

They have other sizes too... 50, 70, 100, 150 and 300 gallon tanks...

Here is a 300 gallon tank for $209.97

http://www.home-improvement-superstore.com/rubbermaid-commercial-prod-4247-00-bla-300gal-blk-stock-tank.html?utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=CPC&zmam=8568711&zmas=4&zmac=87&zmap=335193




.....




So let's see... we can get a 4x8 tray for under 300 bucks... a tank for just over 200 bucks...

What's left ?

A $25 dollar pump and and a stand... some $10 fittings and some cheap black tubing...

The lumber section of HD can set you up with the materials for a very sturdy stand... and I guarantee it will not cost the $400 they want for their PVC stand...

I can't add up 1.5 k... unless I am missing something...

Did I?


----------



## DaGambler (Jul 10, 2009)

Mcgician said:


> Wow man, that's quite an investment, and quite a setup. Huge props. Judging by your list I take it you're going to be using perlite as your medium? Any particular reason why you chose that? IMO, you should either switch to rockwool or coco. Keep in mind though, with coco you'll have to water more frequently as it's got better drainage. I have 30 plants in rockwool and a 70 gallon res....I'm 2 weeks into flowering and the plants are taking almost 10 gallons of water a day! Just keep that in mind. Perlite is even more pronounced when it comes to it's drainage, so if you decide to go that route be prepared to have to keep an extremely mindful watch on the nutrient solution. All the rest you've got going sounds good to me, but I'm no fan of cooltubes. If they're working for you don't change, but I prefer a good reflector and aim to use every watt and lumen I can. Good luck!


ya, i'd never argue that perlite is better than rockwool or coco... i'd have no idea how they compare. it's just what i can easily get ahold of. and i'm guessing an equal amount of rockwool/coco would cost me more than 200 dollars. for 200 dollars i don't even have to worry about re-using it if i don't want to... i can just discard it and get new media. but if money were no object... and traveling to the closest Hydro shop wasn't a pain in the arse...

i've tried different types of flat or box reflectors both vented and unvented... i like CoolTubes because they are very aerodynamic. Also, you can put a CoolTube within 10 to 12 inches of the top plant and still have good light spread on the sides of the fixture... i'd say they do a 4' by 5' area very well. i deffinitely like them more than the 4 types of 'rectangular box' reflectors that i have tried.

thanks for the feedback man.
.


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## DaGambler (Jul 10, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> *96'' x 48'' x 7'' Propagation Tray in White or Black **$279.95*
> Here is a 300 gallon tank for $209.97
> 
> http://www.home-improvement-superstore.com/rubbermaid-commercial-prod-4247-00-bla-300gal-blk-stock-tank.html?utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=CPC&zmam=8568711&zmas=4&zmac=87&zmap=335193


4' by 8' for 280.00 dollars plus shipping ... or 5' by 10' DIY for 105.00  (boards and a 60 dollar pond liner)

you mentioned me taking a pic of the 300 gallon stock tank... but you did it for me, thats exactly the one that i have. 'cept i got mine for free and i don't trust it to be leak proof so i'm throwing a 60 dollar pond liner in that as well.

and i agree that those prices are a bit ridiculous (1.3k per tray/rez combo). they are nice ... and portable ... but i'd have to be on a whole different level to want to just throw around 4k like that.
.


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## tilemaster (Jul 10, 2009)

i fully agree. thats why ill be watchin closly at ur new diy flood setup DG. that way maybe i can get the cost knocked way down. im only gonna need like 3 4x4 pans..so diy seems doable. make sure to get some pics for all us followers of the new construction, rez, liner, pumps and plumbing. keep it up!


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## madazz (Jul 12, 2009)

hey man whats the song u got goin in your u tube vid/?? i like, i want! rep + man good job gee u got lots of clones. love it !! keep up good work,

madazz


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## slipperyP (Jul 12, 2009)

tilemaster said:


> i fully agree. thats why ill be watchin closly at ur new diy flood setup DG. that way maybe i can get the cost knocked way down. im only gonna need like 3 4x4 pans..so diy seems doable. make sure to get some pics for all us followers of the new construction, rez, liner, pumps and plumbing. keep it up!



LOL....I was thinking the same thing....Im glad to have some people taking on the challenges today that Im gonna have tomorrow.

If its still that cypress hill song...that is hot, I have never heard of it and I have a ton of cypress.


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## theloadeddragon (Jul 12, 2009)

I got a 6 ft spread off of my 1000W, . How tall are you going to let your plants get before flower?


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## DaGambler (Jul 14, 2009)

tilemaster said:


> i fully agree. thats why ill be watchin closly at ur new diy flood setup DG. that way maybe i can get the cost knocked way down. im only gonna need like 3 4x4 pans..so diy seems doable. make sure to get some pics for all us followers of the new construction, rez, liner, pumps and plumbing. keep it up!









these right here are about the hardest thing that i've had trouble finding... finally found some at Horizen Hydroponics. 1" Drain fitting. I'll also be using these for the flood fitting. Hopefully they are adequate... i know its better to have a bigger drain in general than the flood.
.


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## DaGambler (Jul 14, 2009)

madazz said:


> hey man whats the song u got goin in your u tube vid/?? i like, i want! rep + man good job gee u got lots of clones. love it !! keep up good work,
> 
> madazz


the second one is cypress hill... but i'm sure you're talking about the first video... song called 3 A.M. i believe deffinitely by Slightly Stoopid ... they got some awesome songs available on YouTube man. My favorite band right now, without a doubt. (Though i'm not really a music person...) Love all their songs.
.


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## DaGambler (Jul 14, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> I got a 6 ft spread off of my 1000W, . How tall are you going to let your plants get before flower?


it's a perpetual grow... so i've basically always got some plants flowering. the ones in the flower room right now will be done in about 14 days. Should be only 7 days but pH problems seriously fugged the weight and the quality and the cycle.

the clones i have going now i've been trying to keep very short and compact. topping them as needed to keep them less than 10" tall under the flouro's. I'll veg. for a couple more weeks (a couple weeks from now) after they go into the flower room.

Gonna be a busy couple weeks. I just nipped my boy a couple tuesdays ago... but i also just realized that he's got two more bitches knocked up. One is ready to burst... and the other just dropped her first pup on the ground when i got home tonight. Two litters at the same time...

And a whole lotta change-over work to be done on the crop in going to hydro. Guess i'ma need another 300 gallon stock tank after all. My two bitches will be taking up the two that i have with their pups.

No More Miracles... PLEASE !!!   
.


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## madazz (Jul 14, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> the second one is cypress hill... but i'm sure you're talking about the first video... song called 3 A.M. i believe deffinitely by Slightly Stoopid ... they got some awesome songs available on YouTube man. My favorite band right now, without a doubt. (Though i'm not really a music person...) Love all their songs.
> .


 
Got it. yeah its catchy. i heard once on your vid couldn't get that tune outta my head, cheers bro rep++++ its called 2 a.m


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## southern homegrower (Jul 17, 2009)

ph problems hurting my yeild also


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## DaGambler (Jul 17, 2009)

southern homegrower said:


> ph problems hurting my yeild also


owch. what style of grow do you have going?

mine is UG-LEE. i'll pull about 1/3 or less of what i should have gotten without breaking a sweat. I will literally be lucky to break even on this harvest after you factor in 15 hundred total electric costs and media and nutrients... not to even mention man-hours.

where's a brother's farm subsidy when he needs one ?!  

i could have cried when harvesting some of these girls (about half done now)... i'd pull out whole plants and decide there was nothing worth putting into a bag. vewy vewy sad. i shor hope the switch to hydro pays dividends.
.

.


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## southern homegrower (Jul 17, 2009)

aero tubs. its my first time doing hydro always been a dirt grower


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## theloadeddragon (Jul 18, 2009)

I have found I get the best results using soil.


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## Thundercat (Jul 18, 2009)

I'm getting ready to switch to ebb and flow too gambler. I'm still working out the details, but I'll prolly be going shopping next week. When are you gonna start putting yours together, or have you?


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## DaGambler (Jul 30, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> I'm getting ready to switch to ebb and flow too gambler. I'm still working out the details, but I'll prolly be going shopping next week. When are you gonna start putting yours together, or have you?


the two 5' by 10' gulleys on top of some newly insulated flooring (to reduce radiant heat from ballasts below the house)







10' by 13' pond liner placed over the gulleys







one gulley half full of 3 gal. pots of perlite, clones in 16 oz. sphagnum (M.G. seed starting mix) plugs (next time will use at least 1/2 perlite in the plug itself)







both gulleys full, 75% contain 2 plants per container, 25% contain 3 plants







one inch drain and fill fittings, pvc on/off valves lower the pressure generated from the 1300 gph pumps with inline UV







couple 5" air stones and a 300 gal. air pump







ppm at the all important '420'







little bit of water action... overflows set to about 4.5 inches high. i tried 6 inches but it made the pots float 







new hydroponic setup ='s 'so far so good'.
.


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## heftamga (Jul 30, 2009)

i love your new setup, dude.


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## Thundercat (Jul 30, 2009)

Looks good man, should be an interesting experiance. I can't wait to see how it works out for ya. Did you cut holes in the bottom of the buckets or are you just using the holes on the sides?


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## theloadeddragon (Jul 30, 2009)

I don't entirely agree with all of it..... but I will keep my mouth closed too the end cuz I may be wrong...... but lots of plants= big smile on my face


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## DaGambler (Jul 30, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> Looks good man, should be an interesting experiance. I can't wait to see how it works out for ya. Did you cut holes in the bottom of the buckets or are you just using the holes on the sides?


ya, i've got around 6 1/4" holes at the bottom of each bucket.

so far i'm not real happy with the tri-meter as it fluctuates a lot and am always having to recalibrate from the small hand models. so i'm looking to double up on the tri-meter with a different brand shortly.
.


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## DaGambler (Jul 30, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> I don't entirely agree with all of it..... but I will keep my mouth closed too the end cuz I may be wrong...... but lots of plants= big smile on my face


by all means, brotha, any theoretical speculations would be appreciated. I certainly still have some things to learn ... and would just as soon learn from someone else's mistakes as my own.
.


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## theloadeddragon (Jul 30, 2009)

well..... how long do you flood for? do you let ALL the water drain out, or do you leave some in, how far down does it drain to (I recommend leaving some in)? two or three plants per pot right (that may or may not present a problem)... your medium is pure perlite? does that retain enough moisture for you? I would have recommended a perlite mix to prevent a few issues you *could* have.... like how your roots grow..... I would have recommended holes in the sides of the pots as well (but only with a perlite mix)....

There are parts of your set up that remind me of my last SOG that *I really like*...... and equally parts that I remember having issues with.... some flags did pop up.....
you only have 1 tri meter?
I recommend 3 tri meters
in certain spots of course (Res, in flow, and ebb&flow/plant basin)
and airstones IN your ebb&flow area (with 2 inches of water solution remaining after draining)
With ebb and flow I have found that top feeding works better (having two res's, one for nute solution and one for strait RO water)

Of all the people on RIU...... you would probably be the only person I would be interested in doing a joint grow


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## Smokiethebear (Jul 30, 2009)

Thats a one of a kind set up right there, I cant wait to see how it goes hopfully better than the last run. Grow on my friend


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## GypsyBush (Jul 30, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> new hydroponic setup ='s 'so far so good'.
> .



That is so badass...

It's like a big boy's version of my ebb/flow....

I wish you much success...


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## theloadeddragon (Jul 30, 2009)

what takes 30 seconds to say verbally just took me 20 minutes to write....... but I couldn't post because I was auto logged out! Frustrated......


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## DaGambler (Jul 31, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> well..... how long do you flood for? do you let ALL the water drain out, or do you leave some in, how far down does it drain to (I recommend leaving some in)? two or three plants per pot right (that may or may not present a problem)... your medium is pure perlite? does that retain enough moisture for you? I would have recommended a perlite mix to prevent a few issues you *could* have.... like how your roots grow..... I would have recommended holes in the sides of the pots as well (but only with a perlite mix)....
> 
> There are parts of your set up that remind me of my last SOG that *I really like*...... and equally parts that I remember having issues with.... some flags did pop up.....
> you only have 1 tri meter?


i flood for approx. 15 mintues... just long enough to reach the overflow height of 4.5" inches. Then the water slowly drains back out over the next 1/2 hour or so completely -- the holes are at the very bottom edge of the containers. the 1" hole in the side of the pots is just a left-over from when i was using hempy style rez's in each container.

i do have lots of bubbles going constantly in the rez... as well as a 330 gph pump constantly circulating things. just ordered another tri-meter (pH/ppm/temp) but it'll also being going into the rez. so that i can hopefully not be crawling beneath the house as much. 

the perlite actually seems to be holding a bit more water than i would like. i watered once and could have waited 3 days to water again. one reason why i will use at least 1/2 perlite in the clone cups from now on is that i actually lost 2 plants to 'over-watering' as the sphagnum stayed too moist (M.G. seed starting mix) and there wasn't enough air to the roots after the initial flooding. (16 oz. sphagnum 'plugs' are buried right into the perlite after the clones go into the flower room.) But i'm sure that won't be a problem as long as i substitute some perlite in the clone cups next time around. the two that were over-watered have been replaced.

Just waiting for some monster girls this time around... not quite like the trees GypsyBush is getting going... but deffinitely going to veg. a while this time beyond just making sure that they are actively growing vegetatively.
.


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## fried at 420 (Jul 31, 2009)

lookin good man


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## theloadeddragon (Jul 31, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> i flood for approx. 15 mintues... just long enough to reach the overflow height of 4.5" inches. Then the water slowly drains back out over the next 1/2 hour or so completely -- the holes are at the very bottom edge of the containers. the 1" hole in the side of the pots is just a left-over from when i was using hempy style rez's in each container.
> 
> i do have lots of bubbles going constantly in the rez... as well as a 330 gph pump constantly circulating things. just ordered another tri-meter (pH/ppm/temp) but it'll also being going into the rez. so that i can hopefully not be crawling beneath the house as much.
> 
> ...


having an airstone in the ebb&flow area with the plants will ensure propper airflow to the root systems...... I thought the perlite might hold a little too much...... I use rockwool (less of a mess too .......

Im looking at setting up a decent sized where house grow sometime soon (100 sq ft, 70 sq ft of growing space  )........ not 100% on the system im gunna use yet..... still figuring out the initial investment.... but I will key you in when I get it going.......


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## DaGambler (Aug 1, 2009)

the next project will be making the clone tables into ebb 'n flow tables. i'll just be adding higher sides, re-lining with plastic and dropping in a couple of drain/fill and overflow fittings. Will need an additional 375 gph pump (i have one free a.t.m.) and will be using the two rubbermaid trash cans - 35 gal. and 44 gal. as reservoirs. looking at picking up another RO unit as the one i had is now under the house and on a float valve to keep the 300 gal. rez. topped off.

i'll try to throw up some pictures of the clone hydro setup once i get it all thrown together. 
.


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## tilemaster (Aug 1, 2009)

glad to hear things are going as planned


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## DaGambler (Aug 1, 2009)

purpdaddy said:


> That guy in your avatar fell weak for sum pussy,escaped prison and was shot down with just one year left.


sweeet.  least he had his priorities straight.
.


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 1, 2009)

oh yeah..... thats 1000 sq ft and 700 + used for actual plant space


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## DaGambler (Aug 1, 2009)

tilemaster said:


> glad to hear things are going as planned


nothing ever goes as planned 

i think that's the First Rule in the Art Of War.
.


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## bigjesse1922 (Aug 2, 2009)

Hey man good luck with everything!

I have been lurking and am excited to see what this new setup brings!

Rep+


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## DaGambler (Aug 2, 2009)

thanks to - bigtomatofarmer - for posting this up elsewhere on RIU:

[youtube]qFddamg-ez8[/youtube]

man, this one hits close to home. everybody knows they tax the shite out of nicotine and alcohol, both of which are killing people ... swiftly. (Zero deaths - compared to how many hundreds of thousands?)

eh, butta, no doubt about it... mad props and rep to this guy for having the cahones to make this video in the real world. eventually, maybe some folks will start to get real.

but i do have to disagree with the presidnt of the united stats on his, "there's no difference between marijunana and morphine" remark. Morphine is a nasty-azz terribly addictive drug with horrid side effects. If someone can get the same relief by smoking marijunana then a Doctor would have to be a masochist to prescribe morphine over marijunana !
.


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 3, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> thanks to - bigtomatofarmer - for posting this up elsewhere on RIU:
> 
> [youtube]qFddamg-ez8[/youtube]
> 
> ...


Maybe our president needs to be PUBLICALLY educated


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## DaGambler (Aug 14, 2009)

wasn't doing Mother Nature (or myself) any favors while 'poking' 7 holes in the bottom of each 18 oz. cup with a soldering iron / wood burner. using plastic instead of styrofoam this time so that hopefully i won't get any floaters  also going to put about 2/3 inch of river pebbles... and top off with 50/50 perlite and M.G. Seed Starting Mix.







the new 'Clone Gulleys'. 2' x 8' foot shelves on 55 gal. drums. 4" sides on top. will be drilling 2 holes in each table for the fill/drain and overflow fittings. Botanicare makes some nice sturdy fittings. will be lining the trays with 2 mil. plastic sheeting. a 330 gph pump will run to each tray from the same 35 or 45 gallon rubbermaid reservoir.







the 5' by 10' foot 'left gulley' a couple days ago. though since correcting a phosphorous & magnesium & sulphur defficiency... they've shot up a lot in the last couple days. ix-nay on the 1 part per 1 part formula i was trying with the G.H. Flora Micro and Flora Bloom. (2 parts to 3 parts would have been better.) I'll be switching to the Lucas formula now of 1 part Micro per 2 parts Bloom... and flipping the switch to Flower Mode this weekend, right after taking clones.







the 5' by 10 foot 'right gulley'. Not filled in as well. Principle culprits are the auto-flowering White Russians. they just don't want to stay in veg. under the flouro's ... so their growth just stalls. Going to clone, of these i will take few or none.







view over the 'left gulley'. nice even canopy. 3 gallon pots of perlite. a couple stragglers in the middle of the room; more ugly auto's that i'm watering by hand. so far i'm deffinitely seeing faster and more robust growth than any previous grow in soil or hempy. (This is Ebb 'n Flow with a 300 gal. rez. under the house.) still not quite dialed in on keeping the pH and ppm in focus. i'll try not to kill them. 
.


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## bigjesse1922 (Aug 14, 2009)

DG you have outdone yourself this time bro!

Great lookin stuff here! Tough luck with those WR stragglers...

Never can trust anything east of Munich, didn't you know? 

Well I am curious to see what happens once everything flips...

Are you going to prune any of them? That's quite the jungle you got there....not that I am one to talk...

Well check ya later man. Good stuff!


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## GypsyBush (Aug 14, 2009)

Awesome...!!!!


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## shnkrmn (Aug 14, 2009)

Man, I get tired just looking at the transformation you've made. Amazing amount of imagination and industry there, bud. Plus lots o research!


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 14, 2009)

no floaters for you .....

This time will be better than last....

And next time you will really start to get it down


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## DaGambler (Aug 15, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> no floaters for you .....
> 
> This time will be better than last....
> 
> And next time you will really start to get it down


god bless you.

i hope ur right 
.


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## DaGambler (Aug 15, 2009)

Nice and sturdy Botanicare Fittings.







Tossed out all the media i had mixed up. Back to the drawing board.







Dueling Tri-Meters. Perhaps the Truth lies somewhere in-between ?!

RESULTS OF THE NEW CLONE SET-UP TEST RUN:

- River Pebbles: Bad idea. (Not nescesary.)
- M.G. Seed Starting Mix 50/50 w/Perlite: Bad idea. (Holds too much water.)
- 2 mil. Plastic Sheeting: Bad idea. (Damaged in at least 3 places during installation.)

I'll be cloning in -pure- perlite in 18 oz. cups. I'll be replacing the 2 mil. plastic tomorrow with 6 mil. plastic. Still looking to take clones tomorrow.
.


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## slipperyP (Aug 16, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> Nice and sturdy Botanicare Fittings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Youll find your mark....Thanks for posting detailed info...Great journal....Very Professional looking...I think your harvest will be nice.


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## southern homegrower (Aug 26, 2009)

dagambler hows things going


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## DaGambler (Aug 30, 2009)

southern homegrower said:


> dagambler hows things going


Thanks for asking. I got ...paranoid... and had to Chop -Everything- Down !!! (Just Kidding )






Day 7: I removed all the domes thinking to give them a day or two in the open air... 5 minutes later i wasn't sure if any of them would survive !! Though they shriveled up to nothing and lost all turgidity... I placed the domes back on and all of them recovered. REMINDER: crack domes and remove them a bit at a time so as not to stress the plants, rather than all at once.







Day 14: Clones in -pure- perlite. I was concerned about this because i've had trouble in the past while trying to clone in pure perlite in a hand watered setup. It seems very well suited to a once-a-day ebb 'n flow setup however. They started at 100 ppm of a rooting formula and went to 200 ppm Lucas formula at the first signs of active growth.







Twelve flourescent fixtures over 132 clones (down from 240 clones the last go-round). I'm split between doing either 99 or 49 in the next flower cycle. (Currently running approx. 199 plants in the flower room.) I'm getting the urge to run 49 mothers and 49 clones... keeping at 99 or less. Do i really want to piss off Los Federales ?! No. Not really.







Some ALGAE visible on the root poking out of this cup. I'll be uping the dose of H2O2 to about 900 mL per day in the 30 gal. reservoir. Hopefully that will clear it up. If not then i'll go down next weekend and try to find something that kills algae but is safe on other plants.

The girls in the flower room are Ridiculously tall. But i wanted to make sure that the Ebb 'N Flow was running smoothly before i flipped them to flower... they are now 14 days into flower and starting to put on flowers nicely. They are due for another trim to the under growth. Will try to picture update on those in the next couple days. 
.


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## raiderman (Aug 30, 2009)

ns settup and well thot out , hope yu get more than yure expecting.rdr.


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## bigjesse1922 (Aug 30, 2009)

I say keep it 99 or less.

They are itchin to fill up their privately ran, for profit dungeons of nonviolent offenders.

Its the American way! Gotta keep the people safe, doncha know?

You can rape and sodomize children and be out sooner than a drug dealer!

Oh say can you see, by the dawn's early light...Land of the free? Home of the brave??

What a fuckin joke!

Nothing but best wishes DG. Lookin great.


----------



## shnkrmn (Aug 30, 2009)

Looking real nice gambler. I've gotta get going on cloning myself.


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 30, 2009)

algae is one of the problems related to just perlite as a medium.....


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## DaGambler (Aug 30, 2009)

raiderman said:


> ns settup and well thot out , hope yu get more than yure expecting.rdr.


thanks man, i'd be happy to pull 1/2 of what JackMayOffer just got under the same HPS watts. (He got 12 with CO2... i'm just shooting for 6.)
.


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## DaGambler (Aug 30, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> I say keep it 99 or less.
> 
> They are itchin to fill up their privately ran, for profit dungeons of nonviolent offenders.
> 
> ...


thanks man. ya, its been on my mind lately. i don't seem to be getting this done overnight... so i'd like to get to 99 or less. If someone decides that i need to have everything stripped away from me and be locked away in a cage... for what i am doing now... they will be committing a crime more heinous than anything that i am up to.
.


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 30, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> thanks man. ya, its been on my mind lately. i don't seem to be getting this done overnight... so i'd like to get to 99 or less. If someone decides that i need to have everything stripped away from me and be locked away in a cage... for what i am doing now... they will be committing a crime more heinous than anything that i am up to.
> .


 
word........ word


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## DaGambler (Aug 30, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> algae is one of the problems related to just perlite as a medium.....


i've had no problem with it in my flower room. but the ozone generator in there also helps... as do the UV lights on the water pumps. and the aerated reservoir.

the problem in the clone room is that i havn't been adding enough H2O2 to the reservoir... and it isn't being aerated... and i have some standing water directly exposed to the light. Oh well, there are ways of knocking it down.
.


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## DaGambler (Sep 1, 2009)

After 2 days of 30 mL per gal. of H2O2 the algae at the bottom of the DIY Clone Tray is almost completely cleared up. I added some Algae Destroyer today just for good measure and will keep on the 30 mL per day for a couple more days then dwindle down to 15 mL per day ... as I have finally added a couple of air stones to the Clone Reservoir as well.







Girls in the Flower Room - 2 weeks into flower. Bleach jug for reference.







Another view with the 5 gal. white bucket in the background.... they are up to my chest... though if they were in the ground instead of containers they would probably be about waiste height.

I look forward to running many fewer plants next go round... will be keeping them shorter and squatter, hopefully more bush-like rather than the stretched out girls that i have now. I'll have to use some 4 ft. bamboo stakes just to keep these girls upright when they start to put on the buds.

The hardest part right now is deciding which ones to thin out (destroy). As the space may be better utilized by a better developed plant nearby. The bigger girls are already just popping with some buds. I can deffinitely see how growing fewer, better developed bushes / trees could lead to some nice weight coming off individual plants.
.


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## southern homegrower (Sep 1, 2009)

look like things are going pretty good


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 1, 2009)

Looking good!  see, what did I tell yah


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## DaGambler (Sep 2, 2009)

southern homegrower said:


> look like things are going pretty good


meh, live and learn. this is my first go-round with hydroponics (both clone and flower rooms) ... so i'll be happy if i pull 4 lbs. or more. Any less would make me sad.  

Now that i've got the quirks mostly worked out, i'll deffinitely be expecting a better harvest next time around. One of these days i gotta pull at least 6 elbows under these 6 lights. That would make me happy. 
.


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 2, 2009)

they are six 1000 watters right??? should get more than that...... more like 8-12 lb.'s ...... especially once your dialed in....


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## zorkan (Sep 2, 2009)

i think i see alittle makeup on your face


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 2, 2009)

zorkan said:


> i think i see alittle makeup on your face


 
What??? ?


----------



## fish601 (Sep 2, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> What??? ?


 
I think he means the tats


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## raiderman (Sep 2, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> thanks man, i'd be happy to pull 1/2 of what JackMayOffer just got under the same HPS watts. (He got 12 with CO2... i'm just shooting for 6.)
> .


 are all those dry cured aleady in those jars, or did he weigh it wet before jarring.


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 2, 2009)

start of cure


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## raiderman (Sep 2, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> start of cure


may have to redo his math wen its all dry.


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## DaGambler (Sep 3, 2009)

raiderman said:


> may have to redo his math wen its all dry.


maybe. but the room did look quite nice before harvest. and it was a sealed room running 1500 ppm CO2... so 2 lbs. per 1000w lamp is deffinitely do-able. Without CO2 i would never expect to see that much (12 lbs. ). But 8 lbs. without CO2 should definitely be possible from 6k. I've gotten 4 lbs. from 3k in the past... that's why this last grow was so frustrating. pH and nutrient build-up destroyed the entire crop (hand watered Hempy Bucket setup). I deffinitely don't have a Green Thumb. Guess i'll have to 'dial in' a "fool proof" method. 

Nutrient Deficiencies start to show up -very- quickly in this hydroponic (ebb 'n flow) setup, i am finding. Thankfully, once corrected, the 'cure' takes hold very quickly as well. 

So far the most important thing that i have learned is to change your nutrient reservoir (empty it) completely at least every 3 weeks if not every 2 weeks. Its just so much easier to make sure that they have what they need by giving them a fresh supply of nutes up to the desired ppm. Otherwise you'd always have to try to figure out what macro nute or which micro nutes that they are running low on.
.


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## raiderman (Sep 3, 2009)

i agree , my las 2 grows i had sucked eggs,but have had overall pleased.the humidities here stay around 12 to 17% with 100F heat , get excellent co2 levels and resins.but every gro unfortunately is not above avg yields,lol.so we jus keep tuning it in till we find th rite channel,then after a bit we want to change the channel,,,i'd use co2 but its a very long drive to foolw with,but we'll start runnin our central gas heater nex month and that is as good as bottle co2,maybe better.rdr.


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 3, 2009)

I just got a almost 2 1/2 off of 1 1000W using no CO2.....

Yeah he is going to lose 5-10% of that weight depending on the original drying conditions, the trimming "Style" and burping/curing process....

I would never recomend doing ebb & flow in just perlite..... or anything in just perlite.....

there are "soilless" hydro mediums that perform better....

And you can't go wrong with soil,  .......


----------



## DaGambler (Sep 3, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> And you can't go wrong with soil,  .......


It has been my experience that you -can- go wrong with just about any media  Just let me get my hands on it. 

I'm deffinitely liking the ease of the ebb 'n flow setup over previous soil grows however. all i do is maintain pH and ppm. Never have to talk myself into spending time watering. And i remember over-watering quite a few times in soil. I'd find a plant not growing and starting to show signs of wilting and realize that it was just sitting in a puddle of water. Haul plant to sink... drain... and several days later it woud finally recover. Just give me a chance... i can screw up in any media imagineable !! 
.


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 3, 2009)

zactly why we should be patna's  ..... *I* can't go wrong in soil


----------



## raiderman (Sep 3, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> I just got a almost 2 1/2 off of 1 1000W using no CO2.....
> 
> Yeah he is going to lose 5-10% of that weight depending on the original drying conditions, the trimming "Style" and burping/curing process....
> 
> ...


i agree,wen i started adding 40% perilite with the ocean forest,,made it even more airy,easy ,faster growth and no runts,adjusting my nute intake and inducing high carbs and mag. levels,mixed with my 9-50-30 in perfect RO water that rarely needs adjusting... .i should get 16 to 20 oz off this 600 in this grow,maybe more.


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## Smokiethebear (Sep 3, 2009)

You got a hell of a jungle growing there, I was kinda wondering if you have too many plants going if you can ever have too many plants I know the true sogger would say other wise, I always like to use all my light but also keep it around 1, 2-3ft plant per sq feet but anyways they look healthy, maybe a bit stretchy? Only time will tell....


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## DaGambler (Sep 4, 2009)

Smokiethebear said:


> You got a hell of a jungle growing there, I was kinda wondering if you have too many plants going if you can ever have too many plants I know the true sogger would say other wise, I always like to use all my light but also keep it around 1, 2-3ft plant per sq feet but anyways they look healthy, maybe a bit stretchy? Only time will tell....


ya, you can deffinitely have too many plants going... especially from a legal standpoint... which is why the next run will be 49 moms and 49 clones.

from a SOG standpoint... SeeMoreBuds has a nice video in-which he has 300 plants in a 4'x6' area. Under 1800 watts i believe... he yeilds around 6 lbs (pretty much going from clone straight to flower)... and at least 100 of the plants die from being crowded out / lack of light. 

but, ya, my girls are deffinitely a bit stretchy from having to compete for the canopy space. I'll take a tip from MBlaze and veg. a bit longer with fewer plants fighting for the light after this. Just wanted to make sure the ebb 'n flow was 'in-hand' before commiting myself to 12/12.
.


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## erkelsgoo420 (Sep 4, 2009)

Aha dagambler how ya been? Good to see ur not runnin all over hell with a watering wand anymore lol. I went hydro this round as well but dwc. If u got a minute feel free to pop in. Links in my signature. Still wish I had the grapes to step up to ur level lol


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## DaGambler (Sep 4, 2009)

erkelsgoo420 said:


> Aha dagambler how ya been? Good to see ur not runnin all over hell with a watering wand anymore lol. I went hydro this round as well but dwc. If u got a minute feel free to pop in. Links in my signature. Still wish I had the grapes to step up to ur level lol
> 
> " put a little jim beam in my res and next thing you know there is a male plant beating on a female and 2 clones were fucking "


no doubt. will do. heheh. 
.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 4, 2009)

Just thought I'd point out that DeweyKox used 100% perlite in ALL his grows.. and I bow to the man's garden...

It may have been small, but it KICKED ASS!!!

How is it working for you Bro? any problems?


----------



## Smokiethebear (Sep 4, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> ya, you can deffinitely have too many plants going... especially from a legal standpoint... which is why the next run will be 49 moms and 49 clones.
> 
> from a SOG standpoint... SeeMoreBuds has a nice video in-which he has 300 plants in a 4'x6' area. Under 1800 watts i believe... he yeilds around 6 lbs (pretty much going from clone straight to flower)... and at least 100 of the plants die from being crowded out / lack of light.
> 
> ...


 
ohh I know the legal side its a good idea to stay below that mandatory minimum right..yea Ive seen that seemorebuds its almost unbelievable I know even if I did the samething he did I couldnt pull that kinda weight dude really knows what he is doing, I think some of that is just good genes though......And I wasnt knocking your op just trying give you a little constructive criticism, Im sure that the plants closer to the light arent near as strecthy as the ones we see on the outer edge...I see you did some lollipoppin you plan on doing anymore? Next run with just 49 plants you going to use the same light foot print?


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 4, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Just thought I'd point out that DeweyKox used 100% perlite in ALL his grows.. and I bow to the man's garden...
> 
> It may have been small, but it KICKED ASS!!!
> 
> How is it working for you Bro? any problems?


 
lol... thats all I have to say to that....


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## DaGambler (Sep 4, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Just thought I'd point out that DeweyKox used 100% perlite in ALL his grows.. and I bow to the man's garden...
> It may have been small, but it KICKED ASS!!!
> How is it working for you Bro? any problems?


Hey Gypsy,

i've really got no complaints with the perlite as a medium. my only issue right now is a bit of standing water in the clone room trays. an inch or two of a media like hygroton or a coco fiber mat would probably take care of it (covering the 1 cm or less standing water so it isn't exposed to light)... but i'm working the h2o2 / algae destroyer angle. i know that perlite can be used successfully.
.


----------



## DaGambler (Sep 4, 2009)

Smokiethebear said:


> ohh I know the legal side its a good idea to stay below that mandatory minimum right..yea Ive seen that seemorebuds its almost unbelievable I know even if I did the samething he did I couldnt pull that kinda weight dude really knows what he is doing, I think some of that is just good genes though......And I wasnt knocking your op just trying give you a little constructive criticism, Im sure that the plants closer to the light arent near as strecthy as the ones we see on the outer edge...I see you did some lollipoppin you plan on doing anymore? Next run with just 49 plants you going to use the same light foot print?


no, no, ur spot on. the outer girls are deffinitely scrawnier than the inner ones. And yah, i'm still lollipopp'in away... though i hope to be done this weekend. My lights are pretty well where they are going to stay... as are the ebb 'n flow gulleys.... i've got 3k over each 5' x 10' gulley... that won't change.
.


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 4, 2009)

I don't have any problems with perlite at all, its a great addition to media...... its just SOOO easy for one thing to fuck up everything using JUST perlite..... unless your completely dialed in and on top of it.....


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## DaGambler (Sep 4, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> I don't have any problems with perlite at all, its a great addition to media...... its just SOOO easy for one thing to fuck up everything using JUST perlite..... unless your completely dialed in and on top of it.....


no worries... i take everything with a grain of salt. i doubt that most people have actually personally done a side-by-side test of perlite vs. hygroton vs. coco, etc. They are all just inert medias... as long as they don't wick too much moisture... and allow for plenty of air retention... their only purpose is to give the roots a place to go. Now, once you start factoring in different watering methods, etc.... I'm sure that one media may be more usefull in a given garden than another media. Personally i can't imagine how hygroton (grow rocks) could be a decent media... i mean, it's just big round balls of ceramic or something... but i have no actual experience with it. and others seem to really like it. I would say that perlite can be tricky in a hand watered container setup. I lost 8 out of 8 clones that i tried a few months back in 16 oz. cups of perlite. The next 8 i was still using perlite but with the addition of domes... they all survived but they certainly did NOT thrive. This time i have 132 clones in Pure Perlite.... in a once a day ebb 'n flow setup... and they are deffinitely -thriving- (better air exchange, mostly).
.


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## raiderman (Sep 4, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> no worries... i take everything with a grain of salt. i doubt that most people have actually personally done a side-by-side test of perlite vs. hygroton vs. coco, etc. They are all just inert medias... as long as they don't wick too much moisture... and allow for plenty of air retention... their only purpose is to give the roots a place to go. Now, once you start factoring in different watering methods, etc.... I'm sure that one media may be more usefull in a given garden than another media. Personally i can't imagine how hygroton (grow rocks) could be a decent media... i mean, it's just big round balls of ceramic or something... but i have no actual experience with it. and others seem to really like it. I would say that perlite can be tricky in a hand watered container setup. I lost 8 out of 8 clones that i tried a few months back in 16 oz. cups of perlite. The next 8 i was still using perlite but with the addition of domes... they all survived but they certainly did NOT thrive. This time i have 132 clones in Pure Perlite.... in a once a day ebb 'n flow setup... and they are deffinitely -thriving- (better air exchange, mostly).
> .


yu cant go wrong with ebb and flow.jus need the room for it.and yu got plenty of that.keepin that water moving continuously is sweet.i bet yu'll do a full 360 turnaround off that.gd. luk bro,we all know its coming greater than anyone else at RIU,.rdr.we all have to go through the hardships at one time or another .bes getting it out of the way ,perfecting yure grow.yours and bayaremadical are the swetest settups i've seen so far.wish i could run one like that.i'd be the busy beaver,lol.


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## shnkrmn (Sep 4, 2009)

Ummm, I just harvested a butt load in 100% perlite. Thinking of adding coco, but perlite rocks.



DaGambler said:


> Hey Gypsy,
> 
> i've really got no complaints with the perlite as a medium. my only issue right now is a bit of standing water in the clone room trays. an inch or two of a media like hygroton or a coco fiber mat would probably take care of it (covering the standing water so it isn't exposed to light)... but i'm working the h2o2 / algae destroyer angle. i know that perlite can be used successfully.
> .


----------



## fish601 (Sep 4, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> Ummm, I just harvested a butt load in 100% perlite. Thinking of adding coco, but perlite rocks.


 
perlite instead of soil?


----------



## shnkrmn (Sep 4, 2009)

fish601 said:


> perlite instead of soil?


Yes, perlite instead of soil. This thread was originally a hempy bucket grow journal that took a turn.


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## DaGambler (Sep 5, 2009)

southern homegrower said:


> you said you had a inch or 2 of water standing in your clone trays would a bulkhead help


its actually more like a cm at most at the 'deep ends'. i've got what you would call 'bulkhead' ebb 'n flow fittings... but the rubber gasket puts the water level up just that high. That's why commercial trays have the drainage channels and such i guess. I'm thinking about just picking up a 1/2" thick layer of coco fiber mat from Lowe's. That might do it... make it easier for the h2o2 and the algae destroyer to keep things in check if need be.
.


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## DaGambler (Sep 5, 2009)

raiderman said:


> i bet yu'll do a full 360 turnaround off that...


here's hop'in ... taking a loss actually blows quite a lot in this economy



raiderman said:


> ...yours and bayaremadical are the swetest settups i've seen so far.wish i could run one like that.i'd be the busy beaver,lol.


ain't seen bayareamedical in a while, unfortuneately. And I'd trade my size for ur success  but i am heartwarmed 
.


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## DaGambler (Sep 5, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> Yes, perlite instead of soil. This thread was originally a hempy bucket grow journal that took a turn.


heh heh. hell yah, and shnkrmn is one of the Original P Gangsta's.... talk'in Olde Skool Perlite Brigade. 

Nice looking harvest you just had there. I see you got some more girls ready to go (how many on the next round?) .... little perpetual motion in your ocean of love. Talk'in about adding coco puffs to your pure perlite crisps. Any notions on going (automated) hydro?
.


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## SnowWhite (Sep 5, 2009)

wow dude...wkd videos. Your grow is fucking HUGE! Love it!!

Subscribed!


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## shnkrmn (Sep 5, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> heh heh. hell yah, and shnkrmn is one of the Original P Gangsta's.... talk'in Olde Skool Perlite Brigade.
> 
> Nice looking harvest you just had there. I see you got some more girls ready to go (how many on the next round?) .... little perpetual motion in your ocean of love. Talk'in about adding coco puffs to your pure perlite crisps. Any notions on going (automated) hydro?
> .


Eh, my first grow attempt was DWC. I'm still scarred. I find watering 30 or 40 hempy plants isn't so much work. I now pump my nutrients from one 32 gallon trash can in my bloom room where the RO machine is to another trash can next to my vegging plants. Beats hauling 5 gallon buckets of water and makes some use of my DWC stuff . I am watching your conversion closely, though. If I go to your size op I'm going to have to do something.

I just chopped 15 and have 22 waiting. Like your veg room they've gone too long and are now my height. I'm thinking stakes and guy lines to keep them upright, lol.

I have to clean, bomb and get some clones going and Go on a shopping spree at the hydro store and I'm ready to flip the switch on the next batch. I started this journal on new years day and I would like to have my next harvest pictures on Jan 1.

I'm really sitting on the fence on the coco/perlite thing. Right now I'm getting back almost all my medium for reuse and throwing out $150 bucks worth of stuff every grow would hurt me deep down. But RIU's prophet of hempy Azgrow just came wandering back out of the desert and he says 50/50 coco and perlite is the new revelation. I don't know. Why should I change? I probably have 30/40 ounces doing what I do.


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## zorkan (Sep 5, 2009)

This seems like its alot of work and complicated, why not grow in soil, like a potted plant
just get potting soil plant seed water every now and then, its simple.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 5, 2009)

zorkan said:


> This seems like its alot of work and complicated, why not grow in soil, like a potted plant
> just get potting soil plant seed water every now and then, its simple.


Yeah its simple....soil is easy...

But it takes forever and growing in hydro is more efficient....

Do some research before you ask a question you can answer yourself.


----------



## zorkan (Sep 5, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> Yeah its simple....soil is easy...
> 
> But it takes forever and growing in hydro is more efficient....
> 
> Do some research before you ask a question you can answer yourself.


 
lol if everyone did research before posting this would be a dead forum

does it matter if you do sog if its faster or not?
more efficient, what do i waist as a soil grower?







.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 5, 2009)

zorkan said:


> lol if everyone did research before posting this would be a dead forum
> 
> does it matter if you do sog if its faster or not?
> more efficient, what do i waist as a soil grower?




True that. I was just jokin ne way  

To answer your questions, we soil growers waste time which = $$$ when compared to hydro.

I suppose if you are perpetual in soil its not too bad compared to hydro...

We have to use more light to grow our smoke, period.

But I am a soil grower, so don't think I am talkin mess 

Just acknowledging reality


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 5, 2009)

hydro is faster.... thats about it..... hydro actually costs more.....


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 5, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> hydro is faster.... thats about it..... hydro actually costs more.....


??? 

A fine tuned hydro grow will always out preform a fine tuned soil grow, grams/per $


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 5, 2009)

that can be debated to the end......

and has little to do with hydro vs. soil....... maybe we can do some experimenting to compare in the future....... matching EVERY OTHER VARIABLE is key


----------



## bigjesse1922 (Sep 5, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> that can be debated to the end......
> 
> and has little to do with hydro vs. soil....... maybe we can do some experimenting to compare in the future....... matching EVERY OTHER VARIABLE is key


..............


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## erkelsgoo420 (Sep 5, 2009)

Lookin tasty dg.


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## DaGambler (Sep 5, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> I'm really sitting on the fence on the coco/perlite thing. Right now I'm getting back almost all my medium for reuse and throwing out $150 bucks worth of stuff every grow would hurt me deep down. But RIU's prophet of hempy Azgrow just came wandering back out of the desert and he says 50/50 coco and perlite is the new revelation. I don't know. Why should I change? I probably have 30/40 ounces doing what I do.


i ran into problems re-using perlite and vowed not to do it again... 17 bucks for a 4 cu. ft. bag... prolly only need 5 of those next go round... not bad. I think BayAreaMedical always used a 50/50 perlite/coco blend to good effect. But if it ain't broke...
.


----------



## fish601 (Sep 5, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> i ran into problems re-using perlite and vowed not to do it again... 17 bucks for a 4 cu. ft. bag... prolly only need 5 of those next go round... not bad. I think BayAreaMedical always used a 50/50 perlite/coco blend to good effect. *But if it ain't broke*...
> .


 
If it ain't broke make it better


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## GypsyBush (Sep 6, 2009)

fish601 said:


> If it ain't broke make it better


you sound like a gambling man...


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## DaGambler (Sep 7, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Now here is something deff. worth watching...
> 
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9077214414651731007#


Stolen, without permision, from GypsyBush's Journal 
.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 7, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> Stolen, without permision, from GypsyBush's Journal
> .


People of the road don't steal... they share...


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## JACKMAYOFFER (Sep 7, 2009)

Your video is awesome I really enjoyed it.. How long are you vegging before you flip them?


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## DaGambler (Sep 7, 2009)

JACKMAYOFFER said:


> Your video is awesome I really enjoyed it.. How long are you vegging before you flip them?


i've got a couple vids posted somewhere in this thread... or the one in my sig will allow you to find "Other Videos From DaGambler" once you get to YouTube.

I'll hopefully be putting up a third video w/in the next 30 days. The current clones and flowering females are approx. 3 weeks into vegging and flowering respectively. The new vid will be the first in which the ebb 'n flow is setup in both the flower and clone rooms.
.


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 8, 2009)

Cool!! 

Where is it??


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## DaGambler (Sep 8, 2009)

anyone read or know anything about wether or not a blacklight will interupt the dark photoperiod of flowering plants ?! i've got a blacklight bug zapper hooked up in the flower room and i'm hoping that it doesn't disrupt hormone/flower production.... 
.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 8, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> anyone read or know anything about wether or not a blacklight will interupt the dark photoperiod of flowering plants ?! i've got a blacklight bug zapper hooked up in the flower room and i'm hoping that it doesn't disrupt hormone/flower production....
> .


To my knowledge, the danger with light interrupting the flower period is having certain parts of the plant engaged in photosynthesis while others are "asleep," causing undue stress to the plant, which in turn can lead to hermies.

To my knowledge, an MJ plant left under a black light would starve due to a lack of light for photosynthesis. So does this mean an MJ plant CANNOT photosynthesize under black light and thus its photoperiod would be uninterrupted?

To be honest, I don't know.

If the black light is powerful enough and outputs enough brightness, I think there is a chance that the plants could try and attempt to use the light, which would risk hermies.

I would do some research on it. There has to be an answer. Hopefully this was helpful a little.


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 8, 2009)

you should be just fine....


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## fish601 (Sep 8, 2009)

i have heard anything stronger than moonlight is bad

also if you question it maybe try glue traps.. i would hate to see it ruin a crop


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## DaGambler (Sep 9, 2009)

hmmm....

"Fluorescent BL (*black light*) bulbs provide long&#351;wavelength ultraviolet light (UVA). *..."*

"on the other hand, UV A (arround 400nm) can be used for photosynthesis. one of 4 clorophyle peaks is at 425 (blue), but the absorbtion is quite good also at 400nm (which is UV A)"

think i'll either run it only during the light period... or move it over to the clone room... or even outdoors. i don't want to be the guinea pig. at 15 watts 5 feet above the plants... i'd prolly get away with it, but like fish601, i would also hate to see the crop suffer.

wish i could find some more definitive research on this issue... it'd be nice to leave it where its at and ON during the dark period. not much info to be found on this subject (interuption of photoperiod) however.
.


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## DaGambler (Sep 10, 2009)

Gotta give a little love to Larry Carlson... 







.


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## DaGambler (Sep 10, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> To my knowledge, the danger with light interrupting the flower period is having certain parts of the plant engaged in photosynthesis while others are "asleep," ...
> 
> I would do some research on it. There has to be an answer. Hopefully this was helpful a little.


Sounds like what they were saying about 4 different photosynthesis peaks... and allowing one of those peaks to exist could cause hermies and stress as you were saying. Further research is always a good idea. I think i'll have to settle with a partial answer for now. Thanks.
.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 10, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> Sounds like what they were saying about 4 different photosynthesis peaks... and allowing one of those peaks to exist could cause hermies and stress as you were saying. Further research is always a good idea. I think i'll have to settle with a partial answer for now. Thanks.
> .


No prob.

What kinda bug problem do you have? Or is this just a precaution?

Seems to me, unless it was mites, the risk of hermies from light would be more potentially damaging than a few fungus gnats. But I am assuming you don't have a real threat from insects currently...


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## DaGambler (Sep 10, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> No prob.
> 
> What kinda bug problem do you have? Or is this just a precaution?
> 
> Seems to me, unless it was mites, the risk of hermies from light would be more potentially damaging than a few fungus gnats. But I am assuming you don't have a real threat from insects currently...


not so much... i've used the sulphur burner a couple times... and i have diatamaceous earth sprinkled around the garden... and sticky traps in the clone room... and neem oil for a foliar spray if it got bad... and i just did a second treatment of 1/2 strength GoGnats (cedar oil). It was just a couple of white flies. The GoGnats will probably keep them at bay for another 2 weeks or so.

i was just looking to incoorporate some extra prevention. the blacklight bugzapper will go over to the clone room or under the house where the rez is.
.


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## DaGambler (Sep 12, 2009)

the current crop of girls in the flower room at about 28 days into flower from 12/12







starting to look more like marijunana - more flowers, less leaves.







the 'greener' plants are just under a MH center bulb with HPS on both ends of the 5' x 10' gulley







looking for waldo.







some nice HPS washed out photograhpy

UPDATE: think i'd have better vigor (via better root formation) if i didn't have the sphagnum plugs in the perlite, as the sphagnum plugs stay too moist when watered once per day. perlite transplanted into perlite will hopefully improve rooting the next go round. but they are doing alright.
.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 12, 2009)

It looks to be a substantially better potential yield than even the run before last in hempy without all the major ph issues.

Great work


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## DaGambler (Sep 13, 2009)

I'd love to grow in a greenhouse some day... even so, here's a Greenhouse Story recently told at RIU that wouldn't hurt to go around twice:



BushDok said:


> In 2005 my best friend was shot to death in his home during a home invasion, I was tortured in a home invasion in my home 2 mos. later. Up to that time I had grown medically for myself and four fellow patients, but opted to allow a 50 person 3yearold collective bring their plants to my ranch in exchange for security and help construct my 48'x26'13' greenhouse out back beside my raised box garden and 9'x9'x7' greenhouse. We utilized a lite depriv. tarp to flower our 1st half, "10 blooming per patient" per the county guidelines which allowed each patient "10 veg. 10 bloom" outdoors; we just reversed the bloom so we didn't have to toss 10 plants in July. Instead we harvested each patients 1st 10 the end of July and the 2nd 10 that Oct. making for a double harvest. The July smoke wasn't as heavy or asgood as the same plants in Oct, but it was close!
> Anyway, two months after my March05 home invasion, where I just made it out w/ my life by a string, July13th 2005 I received a cell call from my neighbor saying "don't come home the dea and sheriffs are busting in your doors and ripping up your garden". I drove straight to an undisclosed friend's home and began to call the collective members. Finding out that the head of the collective was arrested infront of my gate for obstruction and DUIP (DRUNK IN PUBLIC) and that a warrant for my arrest was issued that same day. I hired an atty and surrendered five days later. I was finger printed and bailed out as soon as they finished. The only words i used while in thw presence of police were; my name, address and i was "not talking"! They had to ask my atty if they wanted anything else. The case went on from mid 05 thru late 07, but in early 06, while I was on vacation in Costa Rica, I received notice the US Dept of Justice was hanging papers on my gate saying the ranch was being taken w/ a "Forfeiture in Rem". The county had given my case evidence to the US Atty and they were taking my home. Subsequently i was criminally charged by the state of California for growing for distribution and sales and the feds were taking my property because a felony was committed on the premises. The night before the state trial my doctor called my atty saying he wasn't going to do my case any good if he was called to the stand. he was afraid of what the feds had and by proxy the state. When I heard of his betrayal I told my atty "if they will give me a mister meaner i'll take it". the case had already cost me over $50,000 and we hadn't been to trial yet?? I subsequently received an "West Deal"; no jail time, no fines or court costs, 4 yrs search-able probation w/ an agreement not to allow anyone else to grow except me w/ in county guidelines, not to help any one grow or be involved in any aspect of cannabis business. If convicted of a mister meaner or violate agreement in the four year term I go directly to prison for 5yrs on two felonies plus whatever the mister meaner carries w/ it?? I am now in my 2nd year and was told by my atty from the start of probation "they will come to search each year", but no one ever showed? Then a week ago he calls after not talking for almost two years and says "your two year review is coming up, they will be by to search in the next month or two. be sure all is straight". One would think w/ all the budget cuts they wouldn't have time for small potatoes like me?? pray! Two months ago the feds dropped my case "w/ prejudice" saying "the violation couldn't have been that bad if the county gave a mister meaner w/ no time" as the feds rationale for the dismissal. Throughout the entire ordeal, in both cases, I never once talked top the law! They want one thing and that is "Arrests"! They come to the scene of a robbery and figure everyone is a perp. if they can bust the victim that's a bonus in their book. there mite be one out of every hundred officers who are true champions of justice and out to do good. Lots think they are, but their definition of good is so convuluted they are bad! As you can see I'm still angry, most of the collective members refused to help and it cost me all my savings for defense. The law never found any scales, dried cannabis, evidence of sales or distribution and evnthough all the neighbors testified it was impossible to see in my greenhouse from off the property the judge upheld the search warrant taking the cops word over all the locals as well as my atty and investigator! He goes home at nite thinking he's a good American, but he's obviously not. The basic difference between capitalism and communism is private property/ ownership. when the cops can jump your fence when your not home and search your property w/ out your permission we mite as well be under the Kremlin iron fist????
> 
> PS. yes, I understand Federal law is federal Law, but I don't agree and am not represented in my Gov! I never voted for those laws and the only drug problem in the US is a perceived problem. If the laws weren't enacted our prisons wouldn't be so full of citizens w/ a medical issue not a criminal one! I hate our un-free society; the corruption and cherry picking of cases and what laws to follow is unspeakable... W/ over 205 of the states having medical cannabis laws one would think it's obviously working and time to grow up and lay off cannabis!
> ...















.


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## DaGambler (Sep 13, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> It looks to be a substantially better potential yield than even the run before last in hempy without all the major ph issues.
> 
> Great work


i'd be pretty happy if it beat the first hempy harvest of 4.5 lbs... unless some tragedy occurs it will certainly be better than the last crop (which all but failed completely).

so far no real issues with the new Ebb 'N Flow setup. Right now i'm liking what i see.
.


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## DaGambler (Sep 13, 2009)

Sharpies said:


> The idea is you print this on business card paper, or regular paper, and leave the cards in places. Public places people may find it. Mainly useful for areas where marijuana is still illegal. I did this one here, and I'll do more if people like the idea, or have suggestions for things to put on it.
> 
> http://imgur.com/acEdS.png


the part i really like... JAMA's (Journal of American Medical Association) figures:







but hey, who can trust those guys, right?
.


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## southern homegrower (Sep 13, 2009)

DaGambler. looks like things are going pretty good


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 13, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> I'd love to grow in a greenhouse some day... even so, here's a Greenhouse Story recently told at RIU that wouldn't hurt to go around twice:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Did you post this up for me???


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## DaGambler (Sep 13, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Did you post this up for me???


well... maybe... it's a cautionary tale - so if you think reading it will have made you slightly more cautious...

then perhaps i did 

And this guy was lucky. Lucky not to be held to the federal mandatory minimum for growing the 500+ plants that were on his property. i just posted up two stories in JackMayOffer's thread in which 2 indoor growers (separate incidences) were each sent away for 10 years. This just happened recently and they both lived in the state of California. At least one of which was legally sanctioned by the state of Cally to grow. So much for the Obama Directive to no longer spend federal money prosecuting Medical Marijuana growers.

.


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## Thundercat (Sep 13, 2009)

LOoking GOod as always Gambler, just wanted to drop by. Peace Man Tc


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## madazz (Sep 14, 2009)

i really like what u got going on here man.! rep goog luck in hitting the 4.5 -5 pound mark, i'm barracking for ya.

Madazz


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## DaGambler (Sep 20, 2009)

.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 22, 2009)

WerD!

thanks for the story there captain...


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## Thundercat (Sep 23, 2009)

God gambler gotta be the longest post ever!


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## DaGambler (Sep 28, 2009)

*Johny Law - Going off half-cocked*



*... in the "War On Drugs" !!!*
*.*


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 28, 2009)

did you read the article in fortune magazine???


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## DaGambler (Sep 28, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> did you read the article in fortune magazine???


can't say i have ... what was the gist of it ?
.


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 28, 2009)

the title was

"Is pot already legal"

funny dude wrote the article.....

Im sure all he has been writing about for years is market trends and analysis..... 

so he has to write an article about pot, what it is, its legal history, and some facts, without any bias...... starts off good, same old info...... then after he goes through the history he goes and does some hands on interviews at clubs (pot is the new market trend it seems)...... while he is there he is like wow it really smells good, but he thought it was just incense! hehe...... he said he remembers the way pot smells when smoked, but back in the day (his college years) pot didn't used to smell like that (yah know, the actual nugs)... lol..... then he took a closer look...... and he says.... didn't used to look like that either!! then he looks at the dude that owns the compassionate club (who he is praising in the article for being a compassionate not greedy law abiding yadda yadda yadda)....... and he says..... I didn't think I would need to try pot again for the article but....lol and the journalist wasn't even From Cali, nor did he have a recomendation hadn't even smoked or been interested in a couple decades.... and I don't know...... he describes buds like poetry...... its funny shit to come out of that magazine.....

thats all really....


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## jjmd (Sep 28, 2009)

DaGambler - How are you making out with the new setup? I seen you take your grow a little more hydro in pics that you have posted but nothing since. I was interested to see the diffrence from doing a hempy grow to placing those into the water basins with the air and water flow.


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## DaGambler (Sep 29, 2009)

*thanks theloadeddragon... here's that article that you were talking about:*

*How marijuana became legal*

*Medical marijuana is giving activists a chance to show how a legitimized pot business can work. Is the end of prohibition upon us?*







Irv Rosenfeld is one of four U.S. citizens who get their medical marijuana from the federal government.






A pictorial essay on the growers, sellers and users of legal pot. Photographs by Robyn Twomey 



*




*



(Fortune Magazine) -- When Irvin Rosenfeld, 56, picks me up at the Fort Lauderdale airport, his SUV reeks of marijuana. The vice president for sales at a local brokerage firm, Rosenfeld has been smoking 10 to 12 marijuana cigarettes a day for 38 years, he says. 
That's probably unusual in itself, but what makes Rosenfeld exceptional is that for the past 27 years, he has been copping his weed directly from the United States government.

Every 25 days Rosenfeld goes to a pharmacy and picks up a tin of 300 federally grown and rolled cigarettes that have been sent there for him by the National Institute of Drug Abuse (NIDA), acting with approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. 

Rosenfeld smokes the marijuana to relieve chronic pain and muscle spasms caused by a rare bone disease. When he was 10, doctors discovered that his skeleton was riddled with more than 200 tumors, due to a condition known as multiple congenital cartilaginous exostosis. Despite seven operations, he still lives with scores of tumors in his bones. 

Rosenfeld is one of four people in the United States whom the federal government supplies with medical marijuana. Each is a living anomaly because, officially, the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, NIDA, and the FDA all take the position that marijuana has "no currently accepted medical use." 

That's the only way federal law can continue to classify marijuana, like heroin, as a "Schedule I controlled substance," forbidden from being prescribed by doctors. (Numerous dangerous, psychoactive, and addictive opium derivatives, by contrast, are more leniently classified as Schedule II drugs, allowing prescription use.) 

Over the years the government's position has become progressively more embattled, if not untenable. 
Thirteen states now have laws that let residents use marijuana medicinally, typically to alleviate chronic pain (particularly nerve pain caused by diabetes, AIDS, and hepatitis); manage movement disorders and muscle spasticity (especially for multiple sclerosis patients); as an anti-nausea and anti-vomiting agent (for those, say, undergoing chemotherapy); and as an appetite stimulant (yes, as in "the munchies") for those with wasting diseases like AIDS and cancer.

Another 15 states are weighing legislation or ballot initiatives that could turn them into medical marijuana states by next year. 

The acceptance of medical marijuana has implications that extend far beyond helping those suffering from life-threatening diseases. It is one of several factors -- including demographic changes, the financial crisis, and the widely perceived failure of the war on drugs -- reopening the country's 40-year-old on-again, off-again shouting match over whether marijuana should be legalized. 

This article is not another polemic about why it should or shouldn't be. Today, in any case, the pertinent question is whether it already has been -- at least on a local-option basis. We're referring to a cultural phenomenon that has been evolving for the past 15 years, topped off by a crucial policy reversal that was quietly instituted by President Barack Obama in February. 

First, some necessary background. Under President George W. Bush (and under President Bill Clinton before him, for that matter), the U.S. Justice Department treated state medical marijuana laws as nullities. Such laws were contradicted and therefore preempted by federal drug laws, the Justice Department reasoned, and the U.S. Supreme Court upheld that position in 2005. 
Accordingly, the federal government has periodically raided and prosecuted defendants who at least claimed to be complying with state medical marijuana laws, and when it did, defendants were forbidden from telling juries about the existence of those laws. 

In late February, President Obama signaled a new approach. His attorney general, Eric Holder, confirmed at a press conference that he would no longer subject individuals who were complying with state medical marijuana laws to federal drug raids and prosecutions.

This understated act -- a simple pledge not to act, really -- could have enormous consequences. It potentially leads to exactly the same endpoint as the Twenty-First Amendment, which repealed the federal prohibition on alcoholic beverage sales.

Here's how. When states make a legal loophole allowing medical use of marijuana, they must grapple with the messy question of what precisely constitutes medical use. After all, doctors regularly prescribe powerful drugs like Valium, Viagra, Prozac, and -- give us a break -- Botox to patients who are hardly at death's door. 
If a state doesn't tightly limit what "medical use" means, the camel can get its nose under the tent. 
That's what happened in California. Like most medical marijuana states, California permits doctors to "recommend" marijuana use for patients who suffer from specific serious diseases. (Drafters of the law avoided the word "prescribe" in an attempt to sidestep conflict with federal law.) 

California's law then adds a catchall provision that lets doctors also approve marijuana use for "any other illness for which marijuana provides relief." In practice, doctors -- largely protected from second-guessing by confidentiality privileges -- have been free to make the final call as to which conditions those might be. 
This is, after all, the norm vis-à-vis medicines. Once a pharmaceutical has been FDA-approved for one use, doctors can lawfully prescribe it for other, so-called off-label purposes, even though the drug has not yet been certified as safe or effective for them. 

Accordingly, California doctors are authorizing patients to take marijuana to relieve such ailments as anxiety, headache, premenstrual syndrome, and trouble sleeping. "You could get it for writer's block," comments Allen St. Pierre, the executive director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. 
Some California doctors voluntarily report the breakdown of patient medical conditions for which they have approved marijuana use in the Alameda, Calif., medical newsletter _O'Shaughnessy's_. 

They commonly report that more than a quarter of their marijuana authorizations have been prompted by patients suffering from conditions like "anxiety" or "insomnia." (The most common complaint is "chronic pain.") 

As a result, in most of California's coastal metropolitan areas, marijuana is effectively legal today. Any resident older than 18 who gets a note from a doctor can lawfully buy the stuff, and doctors seemingly eager to write such notes, typically in exchange for a $200 consultation fee, advertise in newspapers and on websites. 

There are an estimated 300,000 to 400,000 medical marijuana patients in the state now, and the figure is rapidly growing. 

More astonishingly, there are about 700 medical marijuana dispensaries now operating in California openly distributing the drug. 

These dispensaries -- called "compassionate-care clinics" by the solemn and "pot shops" by the skeptical -- are decidedly outpatient facilities, with not a few patients arriving on bicycles, roller skates, or skateboards. (They often get discounts for doing so, because it's greener than using a fossil-fuel-powered car.) 

The dispensaries sell marijuana and its concentrated resin forms, hashish and kif, sometimes alongside a range of enticing, non-inhaled alternatives, including marijuana-imbued brownies, cookies, gelati, honeys, butters, cooking oils ("Not So Virgin" olive oil), bottled cold drinks ("enhanced" lemonade is the most popular), capsules, lozenges, spray-under-the-tongue tinctures, and even topically applied salves. 

In Los Angeles a high-end three-store chain called the Farmacy employs a pastry chef to oversee production of all its baked goods. Most dispensaries also sell potted plants and seeds for patients who are either thrifty or entrepreneurial.

All these establishments are engaged in what federal penal statutes still humorlessly define as narcotics trafficking. The dispensaries' affiliated marijuana farms and plant nurseries are sometimes of sufficient size to subject operators to mandatory-minimum five-year federal prison terms. 

And this, mind you, is a situation that evolved almost entirely during the Bush administration, when the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration was still routinely threatening dispensary landlords with forfeiture of their premises, periodically raiding clinics and seizing inventories, and criminally prosecuting the most brazenly abusive operators. 

Luke Scarmazzo, who aired a rap video on YouTube two years ago boasting of all the money and great sex he was getting from running the California Healthcare Collective in Modesto, Calif. -- "Fuck the feds!" was one ill-advised lyric -- was sentenced in federal court this past December to almost 22 years of imprisonment on a continuing criminal enterprise conviction. (He has appealed.) 

While the situation in California is unusual, it's becoming less so. There are now 15 dispensaries in Colorado, according to weedmaps.com, one of many online marijuana dispensary and physician ("pot-doc") locator services. In Oregon nearly one in four active physicians has authorized at least one of his patients to grow marijuana for medical use.

New Mexico hopes to have the nation's first state-licensed medical marijuana farm and distributorship up and running by the time this article is published. New Mexico's law was enacted two years ago, but state officials hadn't dared implement it until Attorney General Holder blew the all clear in February. 
This is the sense in which President Obama's understated pledge not to interfere with state medical marijuana laws potentially achieves for that intoxicant what the Twenty-First Amendment accomplished for beer, wine, and booze during the Great Depression. 
Repeal, remember, simply returned to the states the right to decide whether to permit alcoholic beverage sales, and, if so, when and how. If a state permitted sales, it could also enforce minimum- age requirements, limit store hours, set zoning restrictions, and levy taxes. If it prohibited sales, it could bask in righteousness but exercise no control over the traffic that would occur anyway. 

Over time nearly every state fell in line behind the tax-and-regulate model. (During Prohibition, federal law did contain an exception allowing alcoholic beverage sales for medical purposes. Nevertheless the case for medical booze was never compelling, and after repeal no state chose to condition the legality of alcohol sales upon a showing of medical need.) 

"I think we're going to have exactly that kind of local option with marijuana [that we now have with alcohol]," says Keith Stroup, 65, NORML's founder, two-time past executive director, and current legal counsel. "Once that happens it will be like gambling." 

Initially only Nevada permitted gambling, and then it was just Nevada and New Jersey. "But over a period of time," Stroup says, "the morality part of the issue kind of dissipated, and there were more and more needs for new revenue, and today almost every state in the country allows legalized gambling." 

Marijuana activists thought they were close to legalization once before. From 1973 to 1978 activists won decriminalization in 11 states. ("Decriminalization" is a grab-bag term but usually refers to schemes under which first-time possession of small quantities of marijuana becomes a noncriminal violation, akin to a parking ticket. Decriminalization falls short of legalization, in that sale and distribution remain serious felonies.) 

In 1977, President Jimmy Carter endorsed a federal decriminalization bill. But the bill went nowhere, and soon the movement was all but obliterated by the return swing of the cultural pendulum, now known as the Reagan Revolution. There would be no new state or federal marijuana reforms for the next 16 years. 
"Here's what's different now," asserts Ethan Nadelmann, the head of the Drug Policy Alliance, which favors marijuana legalization on a tax-and-regulate model. "First, in the late 1970s no more than 30% of the American public supported making marijuana legal. Now it's breaking 40%." 

That jump reflects an important demographic change, Nadelmann notes. "Back then there was a whole older generation of Americans who didn't know the difference between marijuana and heroin," he says. "Now that generation is mostly gone. The people in power are baby boomers, a majority of whom actually smoked marijuana." 

The past three Presidents have all more or less admitted trying the drug, Nadelmann continues, and the current one, when asked if he inhaled, famously retorted, "I thought that was the point." 

Beyond the demographic change, there is a perception that after 40 years of blood, sweat, and tears, the war on drugs -- formally declared by President Richard Nixon in 1969, a month before the Woodstock festival -- has failed to reduce the availability of illegal drugs, has enriched and empowered organized-crime gangs, and has subjected millions of people to arrest who pose little threat to anyone but themselves. 

On top of that, we're now mired in the worst economic environment since the Great Depression, which makes the prospect of collecting taxes on marijuana sales as alluring to contemporary politicians as beer, wine, and liquor taxes looked to President Franklin Delano Roosevelt and his party when they took office in 1933, the year Prohibition was repealed. 

Assuming a national consumer market for marijuana of about $13 billion annually, Harvard economist Jeffrey Miron has estimated that legalization could be expected to bring state and federal governments about $7 billion annually in additional tax revenue, while saving them $13.5 billion in prohibition-related law enforcement costs. 

In California, where the fiscal crisis is so grave that the state has had to issue vendors more than $1 billion in IOUs, a Field Poll published in April showed that 56% of the state's population favored legalizing marijuana, prompting Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to call for an "open debate" on the question. A legalization bill has been introduced in the state legislature, and the state board of equalization has estimated that if passed, it would bring in $1.4 billion in new revenue, a seemingly conservative estimate.

It's even possible that legalization would reduce national health-care costs, by easing demand for costly pharmaceuticals. 

In the most recent issue of _O'Shaughnessy's_, one doctor reported that his cannabis patients had either stopped or cut back their use of "analgesics of all kinds [including] Tylenol, aspirin, and opioids; psychotherapeutic agents including anti-anxiety medications, anti-depressants, anti-panic, obsessive-compulsive, anti-psychotic, and bipolar agents; gastrointestiminal agents including anti-spasmodics and anti-inflammatory medications; migraine preparations; anticonvulsants; appetite stimulants; immuno-modulators and immunosuppressives; muscle relaxants; multiple sclerosis management medications; ophthalmic preparations; sedative and hypnotic agents; and Tourette's syndrome agents." 

"Medical marijuana is God's little joke on the [marijuana] prohibitionists," says Richard Cowan, 69, a longtime legalization activist who claims he's smoked almost every day since 1967. "There is clearly a medical need, and it ranges from minor to life-saving.... From my perspective, the dividing line between medical and nonmedical should not be decided by the police." 
Medical marijuana is clearly the crowning factor making things different this time. Not only is it changing perceptions of the drug, but it has also given legalization advocates in California a first-ever opportunity to devise and showcase a business prototype. 

They've been afforded the chance to show a skeptical public that a safe, seemly, and responsible system for distributing marijuana is possible. If they succeed, they'll convince the fence sitters and lead the way to a nationwide metamorphosis. 

If they fail, the backlash will be savage. If communities cannot adequately regulate the dispensaries, they'll descend into unsightly, youth-seducing, crime-ridden playgrounds for gang-bangers, and this flirtation with legalization will conclude the way the last one did: with a swift and merciless swing of the pendulum. 

Pot's medical history:
Marijuana, whose botanical name is cannabis, has been used medicinally -- and as an intoxicant, of course -- for thousands of years in Eastern cultures. It is believed to have been introduced to Western medicine in the early 19th century by a British doctor, W.B. O'Shaughnessy, who learned about it while stationed in India (and for whom the medical cannabis newsletter is named). 
Several well-known pharmaceutical companies, including Eli Lilly (LLY, Fortune 500), sold cannabis in powdered or tincture forms in the early 20th century as a painkiller, antispasmodic, sedative, and exhilarant." (For this article Fortune asked Eli Lilly for historical details on its cannabis sales, but a spokeswoman responded, "Due to competing priorities, we ... are unable to facilitate your query.") 
Though cannabis remained listed in the U.S. Pharmacopeia -- a standard desk reference for drugs -- until 1942, its use in Western medicine began declining in the late 1800s, according to a history of cannabis written by Harvard psychiatrist Lester Grinspoon titled "Marijuana: The Forbidden Medicine." 

The decline, Grinspoon writes, was due in part to the rise of more stable and effective pharmaceuticals -- though many of them later proved to have grave potential side effects -- and because modern hypodermic syringes could deliver faster pain relief using opiates. (Opiates were soluble; cannabis wasn't.) 
Then, in the early 1900s, states began outlawing cannabis, which had become associated in legislators' minds with violent crime and psychosis. The drug was then being used in the U.S. mainly by Mexican migrant workers in the West and African Americans in the South, so apprehensions about it may have been intertwined with racial and ethnic fears. In 1937 the federal government, over the objections of the American Medical Association, effectively outlawed cannabis. 

Modern-day medical assessments of marijuana's properties have not corroborated the outsize dangers that lawmakers had attributed to the plant. While it is a "powerful drug," concluded an Institute of Medicine report conducted in 1997 at the behest of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, its "adverse effects ... are within the range of effects tolerated for other medications." 

Yes, someone who is high on marijuana shouldn't drive -- his motor skills and mental powers are impaired -- but that's true of alcohol and many prescription drugs too. 
The long-term risks to chronic users appear to center mainly on the generic dangers of smoking (respiratory disease and possibly lung cancer) and upon the "mild and short-lived" withdrawal symptoms that a minority of marijuana users experience, according to the IOM experts. They considered marijuana less addictive than tobacco, codeine, or Valium. 

Still, many doctors are squeamish about recommending marijuana to patients -- putting aside issues of legal liability. To begin with, most pharmaceuticals consist of a single, purified chemical compound. Such drugs are susceptible to double-blind, placebo-controlled testing, and once they are approved, doctors can prescribe known dosages. 

Marijuana, in contrast, consists of the dried, ground-up flowers of a highly variable plant. It is made up of at least 400 compounds, including more than 60 that are unique to cannabis, known as cannabinoids, several of which are believed to have therapeutic effects. The proportions of these compounds vary greatly from plant to plant. A plant may attract harmful molds. 
Lighting a match to the mix then introduces a whole new set of variables. Finally, smoking -- even putting aside its health risks -- is an idiosyncratic delivery system. Everyone smokes differently, so one never knows how much of which compounds the patient is receiving. These factors all make marijuana hard for researchers to test meaningfully and hard for doctors to prescribe confidently. 

Accordingly, even those doctors who recognize the therapeutic powers of marijuana often prefer the notion of looking for one or two key active ingredients in it, isolating them, and then devising a delivery system that would not involve smoking. 

And that's been done. In 1986 the FDA approved a synthetic version of what has long been recognized to be the main psychoactive ingredient of marijuana -- delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC. After rigorous testing, the FDA found THC to be safe and effective for the treatment of nausea, vomiting, and wasting diseases. This lawful, Schedule II drug, trade-named Marinol, is taken orally, by capsule. 

The trouble is, for many patients Marinol turns out to be inferior to good old-fashioned pot. Smoked marijuana is much faster acting and, as a consequence, easier for patients to control in terms of dosage. The patient inhales as much as he needs and then stops. In contrast, with a THC pill the patient can easily ingest more than he can handle. 

"Oral THC is slow in onset of action but produces more pronounced, and often unfavorable, psychoactive effects that last much longer than those experienced with smoking," according to a 2008 report published by the American College of Physicians. (Incidentally, the FDA-approved warnings for Marinol -- pure THC -- do not flatly forbid patients from driving under its influence. Rather, they simply caution patients not to do so "until it is established that they are able to tolerate the drug and to perform such tasks safely.") 

Still, despite the disappointing performance of oral THC, many doctors want to continue exploring faster-acting THC delivery systems, including a skin patch or a suppository. 

Meanwhile we're still awaiting hard proof that smoking marijuana can actually cause lung cancer. That evidence has proved surprisingly elusive, maybe in part because typical marijuana users smoke so much less than typical tobacco smokers. 

In any case, marijuana users are increasingly turning to a means of inhalation that does not involve smoking known as vaporization. With a vaporizer -- the Volcano brand is the best known -- users heat marijuana to a temperature sufficient to vaporize the cannabinoids but insufficient to spark combustion and most of its associated noxious gases. The vapors are captured in a balloon and then inhaled. 

The government's compassionate-use program
As a teenager Irv Rosenfeld was a strong opponent of marijuana use. He would sometimes give talks against marijuana at local schools. "I'd hold up bags of my prescription drugs and say, 'Be thankful you're healthy,'" he recounts. He was then taking prescription muscle relaxants, sleeping pills, anti-inflammatories, and a range of addictive, debilitating, opioid painkillers, including codeine, Demerol, and Darvon. 

Shortly after Rosenfeld started college at the University of Miami, he caved in to peer pressure and tried pot. "Nothing happened," he says. (To this day Rosenfeld maintains that he never has been able to get high from marijuana. In my six or so hours with him, during which he drove me from Fort Lauderdale to Miami and back, all the while chain-smoking joints, I never noticed any apparent impact on him, other than an occasional cough.) 

Rosenfeld continued smoking socially when others did. "About the 10th time," he continues, "I was playing chess when I realized that I'd been sitting still for 30 minutes." Normally he couldn't do that because his muscles would begin to ache and he'd have to change position. "I hadn't taken a pill in six hours. Just then someone handed me the joint, and it hit me. The only thing I'd done different was smoke pot." 

Rosenfeld ran repeated experiments, and both he and his surgeon became convinced that marijuana helped him more than his prescription drugs, with fewer side effects. In 1971, with the blessing of his doctors and the indulgence of sympathetic police officials, he began smoking marijuana to treat his pain. 

Then, in 1976, Rosenfeld learned of the extraordinary case of Bob Randall (now deceased). Randall, who had severe glaucoma, had been prosecuted that year for marijuana possession in the District of Columbia but won acquittal after advancing a "medical necessity" defense. Randall's doctors had testified that he risked going blind without marijuana to relieve the pressure within his eyeballs. 

Randall then brought a civil suit against the government. In 1978 a mind-boggling settlement was reached: The government agreed to supply Randall with marijuana for the rest of his life. 

The government had the capacity to strike such a deal because since 1968, NIDA had been growing a small quantity of marijuana for research purposes under contract with the University of Mississippi's pharmacy school. FDA and NIDA officials theorized that the U.S. government could lawfully become Randall's supplier if they observed the pretense that he was part of a clinical study to investigate a potential new drug. A research "protocol" was drawn up, though the study design called for just one patient: Randall. 

Rosenfeld drew up a similar protocol for a clinical study of himself. With the help of supportive doctors and threatening lawyers, Rosenfeld became the second patient to pry his way into what became known as the compassionate-use investigative new drug program. 
By 1991 the compassionate-use program had grown to include 13 patients. That year, after Randall counseled AIDS advocacy groups on how to seek admission to the program, it suddenly found itself deluged with 40 new applications. In early 1992, seeing the unworkable direction in which matters were headed, the government shut the program down, though the 13 existing patients were grandfathered in. Today just four are left, including Rosenfeld. 

For them, federal marijuana grown at the University of Mississippi is sent to a contractor in Research Triangle Park, N.C., where it is rolled into cigarettes on an old machine obtained from the local tobacco industry. About every five months the contractor sends six tins of the cigarettes to the pharmacy where Rosenfeld picks them up. 

Rosenfeld's weed is hardly connoisseur quality by contemporary California dispensary standards. The government grows its crops only sporadically, so it dries the harvested flowers and places them in cold storage. When I visited him in June, Rosenfeld was smoking marijuana harvested nine years earlier. Because Rosenfeld finds the government's cigarettes too dry, he unwraps them, rehydrates the marijuana by placing it in a container with lettuce, and then re-rolls his own joints, he says. 

Rosenfeld's cigarettes are also not very potent by contemporary standards. They contain around 3.5% THC, which was about the average strength of dope seized in domestic street busts in 1996, according to NIDA data. 

By contrast, marijuana seized from such busts in 2007 had an average potency of about 4.8%, while the fresh "manicured bud" available at today's best California dispensaries boast THC content ranging from about 6% to 22%. 

It's as if Rosenfeld were receiving vanilla ice cream joylessly made in the Soviet Union and stored for decades, when there's fresh Ben & Jerry's Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough for sale just around the corner. 
Still, Rosenfeld's not complaining. The government charges him nothing, so his only costs are medical consultations and pharmacists' fees -- about $50 a month. Subpar or not, the 8.3 ounces he receives every 25 days would cost him more than $2,000 on the street.

The battle to legalize marijuana:
After the compassionate-use program was shut down, medical marijuana activists had one last hope for changing federal policies. Back in 1972, NORML and other groups had sued the predecessor of the DEA to force the rescheduling of marijuana as a prescribable drug, and incredibly, two decades later, the litigation was still raging. 

During 14 days of hearings in 1986 the plaintiffs had presented many anecdotal accounts of nearly miraculous experiences patients had had with marijuana. Rosenfeld testified, as did the psychiatrist and medical historian Grinspoon, who related not only the evidence his research had unearthed but also a personal anecdote. 
In 1972, Grinspoon's own teenage son, who had leukemia, began undergoing chemotherapy. "He would start to vomit shortly after treatment and continue retching for up to eight hours," as Grinspoon later described the ordeal in his book. "He vomited in the car as we drove home, and on arriving he would lie in bed with his head over a bucket on the floor." 

Having heard that marijuana could help, Grinspoon's wife proposed that the couple let their son try it, but Grinspoon refused because it was illegal. His wife then defied him, secretly smoking marijuana with the teenager before one of his treatments. This time there was no vomiting, and in fact, on the way home the child asked to stop for a submarine sandwich. "From then on he used marijuana before every treatment, and we were all much more comfortable during the remaining year of his life," according to Grinspoon's account. 

In 1988 the administrative law judge hearing the case ruled in NORML's favor. "Marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man," Judge Francis Young concluded. Young was referring to the fact that it is almost impossible to overdose fatally on marijuana, a circumstance that distinguishes it from virtually any other drug. "By any measure of rational analysis," Young concluded, "marijuana can be safely used within a supervised routine of medical care." 

In one of those maddening circularities of federal administrative law, however, the DEA's appeal from Judge Young's ruling was heard by John C. Lawn, then administrator of the DEA itself. Not surprisingly, in 1989, Lawn overturned all of Young's findings. 
Lawn gave short shrift to anecdotes like Grinspoon's and Rosenfeld's. "These stories of individuals who treat themselves with a mind-altering drug ... must be viewed with great skepticism," he wrote. "Many of these individuals had been recreational users of marijuana prior to becoming ill. These individuals' desire for the drug to relieve their symptoms, as well as a desire to rationalize their marijuana use, removes any scientific value from their accounts." 

Lawn also stressed the absence of any controlled clinical studies proving marijuana's safety or efficacy. He was right; such studies didn't exist (at that time), both because of the inherent difficulties of performing them on a whole plant and the unique difficulties of performing them on an illegal plant. To even obtain marijuana for such tests, researchers would have had to first win approval from three federal bureaucracies - the DEA, the FDA, and NIDA -- a daunting task even assuming the best of good will on everyone's part. 
As for the controlled studies showing that marijuana's chief psychoactive ingredient -- THC, in the form of Marinol -- was safe and effective for treating certain medical conditions, Lawn saw them as simply proving conclusively that there could be no conceivable excuse for smoking marijuana. To whatever extent THC might be helpful, patients could use Marinol. 

In 1994 the federal court of appeals for the District of Columbia upheld Lawn's decision, and the activists' last hope for achieving reform at the federal level died. 
So they turned to state government. In 1996 a group of marijuana activists in California got enough signatures to put a legislative initiative on the ballot known as Proposition 215. It called for permitting medical marijuana patients or their "primary caregivers" to possess marijuana on the "recommendation or approval" of a physician. 

The measure passed with a 56% majority, and California became the first medical marijuana state. Precisely what that meant, though, remained totally unclear. Prop. 215 did not specify how much pot patients could possess, and it said nothing about the way patients would obtain it. Nothing in the initiative explicitly legalized sales or distribution of any kind. 

Nevertheless, a few intrepid souls opened dispensaries. 

Dispensaries - A legal gray area:
"In the immediate wake of passage of Prop. 215 in 1996," recalls Stephen DeAngelo, who would later open what is now Oakland's largest dispensary, "local governments tended to take a hands-off attitude toward medical cannabis." They wouldn't explicitly license dispensaries to open, he says, but they also didn't instruct the police to go shut them down. "Dispensaries were tolerated but not sanctioned." 

Even those local politicians who supported the goals of Prop. 215 were reluctant to regulate in the area, because any such effort would have had to begin with dispensary operators filling out forms providing incriminating information about themselves. Any such documents could then have been subpoenaed by federal prosecutors and used to shut the operators down or put them in prison. 

DeAngelo, now 51, was then a longtime marijuana activist but also a businessman. From 1990 to 2000 he founded and headed the industrial hemp company known as Ecolution. (Hemp, from which rope and other products are made, is a non-psychoactive strain of cannabis. Hemp products are legal in this country, but growing hemp is not.) Excited by the medical cannabis phenomenon in California, DeAngelo moved there in 2001, when the legal environment was still extremely gray. 

He found two main types of dispensary managers operating at that time, he recalls. "The best of them were the well-motivated activists who brought really good intentions ... but had, for the most part, no business experience whatsoever and no capital to invest. Despite that, they managed to thrive, simply because they were the only game in town. 

"This engendered a second wave of operators, who were attracted by the money, as opposed to the cause," DeAngelo continues. "A whole new wave of dispensaries got thrown up, which I refer to as 'thug dispensaries.' These were operations run by people who had a background in illicit activities, whether it was selling cannabis or other drugs on the street, or trading in illegal firearms, or in the porn industry or gambling industry -- people comfortable operating in the gray zone. Very rapidly you began to see some big problems. Several armed robberies. You had a spate of stories about operators being arrested. 

"As a patient," says DeAngelo -- he uses marijuana to relieve pain from a degenerative disk disease -- "I was profoundly unhappy about it. As an activist I became concerned because these types were really hurting the public image of medical cannabis." 

In an effort to improve the Wild West atmosphere, the California legislature then passed Senate Bill 420 ("420" is a slang term for pot), which took effect in 2004. This law fleshed out a bit more about the way Prop. 215 would work, requiring counties to issue identification cards to patients who sought them (to help them in their interactions with the police) and setting up minimum guidelines for how much marijuana patients could possess: eight ounces of dried marijuana plus either six mature plants or 12 immature plants. (Counties could allow higher amounts.) 

Though SB 420 was still silent on the issue of dispensaries, it did contain a provision that protected patients or caregivers who "associate ... in order collectively or cooperatively to cultivate marijuana for medical purposes." Accordingly, nearly all the dispensaries in California now claim to be patient "collectives" or "cooperatives," protected under this provision. 

At the same time another provision of SB 420 seemed to cut against the idea that dispensaries were legal -- at least as many of them were (and still are) being run. It said that nothing in the law should be construed to "authorize any individual or group to cultivate or distribute marijuana for profit." 

"In my opinion," says Bill Panzer, a criminal-defense lawyer and marijuana legalization advocate who helped draft Prop. 215, "the vast, overwhelming majority [of dispensaries] are not legal, because they're not collectives or cooperatives. If somebody owns the store, sells marijuana, and at end of day takes the extra money and puts it in his pocket and goes home, that's not a collective." 

The proof-of-concept challenge
DeAngelo opened the Harborside Health Center dispensary in Oakland in October 2006 as a proof-of-concept that might show the rest of the nation how such an establishment could provide top-flight patient services, adhere to the letter of the law, and interact with the surrounding community beneficially. 
His clinic, across from a scenic stretch of Oakland harbor, is identified only by its address -- a large, block-letter "1840" painted on the façade of an inconspicuous, gray-blue one-story building on Embarcadero Drive. 
On the inside it's a spacious, wood-trimmed, tastefully appointed room that blends clean, contemporary lines with sparingly employed Eastern medicinal themes: a laughing Buddha here, a dancing goddess statuette there. 

The mood is broken only by the metal detector at the door and the multiple casino-style cameras embedded in the ceiling. Oakland has a high crime rate, and precautions must be taken. There are at least three security guards inside the facility at all times, as well as two more outside, patrolling Harborside's 100-car parking lot. 

"Whenever a patient comes into the clinic for the first time," explains DeAngelo, "they sign a collective cultivation agreement. They authorize all the other patients in the collective to grow medical cannabis on their behalf. That sets up a 100% closed-loop distribution system that isolates my patients from any contact with the illicit market." 

But that doesn't mean that every member of the collective actually knows what a hoe looks like. "For a variety of very valid reasons," DeAngelo continues, "most patients are unable to grow their own medicine. We act as a clearinghouse between patients who are able to grow and patients who aren't able to grow." 
Harborside now has 30,000 patients registered in its database, and their purchases of medicine bring in about $20 million annually in revenue, according to DeAngelo. "I'd rather not discuss my specific salary," he says. "I can tell you if I was working in any other industry and showed the kind of financial returns that this business has shown, I'd be paid three or four times as much as I'm making at Harborside." 

First-time patients, upon stepping through the metal detector at Harborside, immediately undergo a thorough paperwork check. The patient produces his doctor recommendation, the clinic verifies its authenticity with the doctor, and then the clinic also verifies the doctor's credentials with the state medical board. 

About 600 patients come to Harborside each day, according to DeAngelo, most to buy marijuana, a few to supply it. Suppliers can bring in as much as three pounds at a time. (Bay Area police generally allow patients to transport this much, DeAngelo says.) The patient-grown marijuana is inspected for quality, examined for molds and fungi, and tested with a gas chromatograph mass spectrometer to determine its THC content. 

At Harborside, there are eight selling stations along a long counter, each near a glass case displaying the wide array of medicines available, labeled as to strain and THC content. "Our most popular strains are our purple strains," says DeAngelo, "like Purple Urkle or Granddaddy Purple. The purples tend to be heavy indicas" -- one of the two main varieties of psychoactive cannabis -- "with a very strong, relaxing effect. They have a characteristically sweet, almost candy-like flavor. 
"Another popular family of strains is the Kush family," he continues. "That would include OG Kush, Baba Kush, and Pure Kush. The Kushes tend to be more sativa-dominant," referring to the other main variety of cannabis, which is said to produce a more cerebral, "daytime appropriate" high, with less body impact. "They have a pungent flavor as opposed to a sweet flavor." 

At Harborside, I experienced a mild personal epiphany: I realized that I never really knew before what fresh marijuana smelled like. Though I had easily recognized, from East Coast college days 30 years back, the smell of smoked marijuana inside Rosenfeld's SUV, I had never before smelled the sweet, herbal fragrance suffusing Harborside. At first I incorrectly assumed it was some sort of incense being artificially introduced to mask the odor I was familiar with. 

As I further inspected Harborside's medicines, I also realized that I had never really known before what fresh, high-quality marijuana looked like. I remembered baggies half-filled with crushed brown twigs, leaves, stems, and even seeds. But the dispensaries sell only fresh "bud," which looks like cute, plump, fuzzy caterpillars curled in a ball. 

After my education at Harborside I went on to explore some of the other approaches that marijuana entrepreneurs and activists are experimenting with as they try to rise to the proof-of-concept challenge. 
Pioneering canna-businessman Richard Lee, also in Oakland, has opened his Blue Sky Café dispensary as a coffee shop, taking his cue from Amsterdam. Lee acknowledges that he runs the Blue Sky as a for-profit business, a situation that the City of Oakland authorities have at least tacitly endorsed, notwithstanding SB 420's apparent prohibition of "for profit" distribution. 
In 2004 the city, seeking to avoid being overrun by dispensaries, passed municipal regulations limiting the permissible number to four. Those regs required that dispensary operators not earn "excessive" profits, which has been understood to imply that some profit must be permissible. Lee was granted one of the city's four permits. 

Lee has also opened an array of affiliated businesses in the immediate neighborhood of the Blue Sky, several of the few bustling businesses in Oakland's otherwise depressed downtown. The best-known is Oaksterdam University, which trains medical cannabis entrepreneurs to navigate the business and legal challenges. 
It also teaches trades to those who seek jobs as, say, a medical cannabis cultivator or "bud-tender," i.e., the quasi-pharmacist sales clerk who helps customers choose their medicine. Oaksterdam has now opened branches in Los Angeles and Sebastopol, Calif., about an hour north of Oakland, and stages conferences in Ann Arbor. 

The most open dispensaries I saw were two branches of the Farmacy chain in Los Angeles. They are full-service herbal medicine stores under the management of registered pharmacist JoAnna LaForce, with marijuana being sold inconspicuously alongside scores of uncontroversial, legal plant products with putative healing powers. At these stores all members of the public, of any age, are welcome to enter, and only those who ask about marijuana are required to produce paperwork. "That way, a young mother with children can come into a store and not feel like a criminal," LaForce explains. 

For my aesthetic taste, the most inviting dispensary I toured was the immaculate Peace in Medicine facility in Sebastopol. Here, patients enter a handsome, freshly painted house -- the former sales office for a Ford dealership -- and come to what looks like a cheery doctor's waiting room. 

After taking care of the paperwork, patients are summoned into the dispensary. There, I mention to Robert Jacobs, 32, Peace in Medicine's idealistic young executive director, how enticing the fresh medicine smells. "If it smells good, the body probably wants it," he responds, smiling a bit and sounding like Eve in the Garden of Eden. 

I then notice a journalistic hole opening up in my reporting. Until now I had assumed that my haphazard, stale, youthful experiences with marijuana would need no refreshing in order for me to write a thorough article about medical cannabis. Now I'm not so sure. 
Unfortunately, most dispensaries are intransigent about serving only California residents, and I am not one. I explain my quandary to Jacobs. Listening back upon my words as they hang in the air, I realize that it sounds as if I've just asked him to break the law. He very politely declines. 

Taxing and regulating dispensaries:
In the early days of dispensaries the California Board of Equalization, which collects state and local sales tax, refused to issue seller's permits to dispensaries that sought them -- the necessary prelude to paying sales tax in the state. The board viewed such establishments as certainly illegal under federal law, and possibly illegal under state law. 

In October 2005 the board changed tack and began allowing dispensaries to pay sales taxes if they wanted, and in 2007 it completed the reversal by requiring them to pay sales taxes and demanding that they do so retroactively to October 2005. 

The board assured the dispensaries in a February 2007 letter that it would now issue seller's permits even if the dispensary refused to answer portions of the standard application -- identifying the product sold, for instance, or listing suppliers -- due to "concerns about confidentiality or self-incrimination." 

Since sellers' permits do not require establishments to identify themselves as medical marijuana dispensaries, the board has no hard records on sales taxes collected from them. Unless there is extremely poor compliance by dispensaries, however, the numbers should be robust. 

Harborside alone reported about $15 million in sales in 2008, for instance, and DeAngelo estimates that the average revenue for each of California's 700 dispensaries probably ranges from $3 million to $4 million annually. If so, gross statewide medical cannabis sales are approaching $2.5 billion, generating taxes of around $220 million. That does not include the state and federal income taxes that dispensaries and their employees also pay, and employee payroll taxes. 

In addition some localities, like Oakland, have begun imposing their own taxes. Each of Oakland's four dispensaries pays the city $30,000 annually for its license, plus a business tax on gross sales (over and above state or local sales tax). 

This past July, Oakland increased that business tax 15 times over, from $1.20 to $18 for every $1,000 in sales. Tellingly, the increase had been sought by the dispensary owners themselves, who well understand the importance of being seen as good citizens and becoming indispensable to the city's revenue supply. 

Has medical cannabis been a good thing for Oakland? "I think so," says Ignacio De La Fuente, Oakland's current deputy mayor and, from 1998 to 2008, president of its city council. "I was not one of the initial supporters," he concedes, and he still doesn't favor legalizing marijuana for recreational purposes. "But I became educated about the medicinal value of cannabis" over the years of debate, De La Fuente explains. "You kind of make a decision of, Is this measure worth the risk to help the people that really need it?" 

On balance he believes it was, though he urges other localities considering legalizing medical marijuana to "do their homework about how they want to regulate establishments, so they don't become a problem or a nuisance." 

"It's not working," says Councilman Dennis Zine of Los Angeles, a city that began regulating its dispensaries late, and is now overrun. "Too many of these places have become distribution places for recreational purposes under the guise of medical," he says. 
In 2007 the city set a deadline after which no new dispensaries would be permitted. A staggering 186 establishments met the cutoff, yet another 736 filed late applications, citing a "hardship" exception, and many of those opened too. Zine estimates that there are about 600 dispensaries in his city. He seeks tougher regulations, plus assistance from city, state, and federal authorities to help shut down any operator whose intent is "profit-making" as opposed to "compassionate" distribution for "medical purposes." 

"I think the next five or six years are going to be incredibly exciting for this issue," says Stroup, who founded the National Organization to Reform Marijuana Laws 39 years ago. "I honestly believe we'll stop arresting individual smokers in almost all states and start to see the first one or two states experiment with a legalization bill." 

Although Stroup originally wanted the "R" in NORML to stand for "Repeal," he was later talked into softening it to "Reform" by cooler, more politically savvy advisers. Now he thinks society might finally be closing in on his original goal. 


Could be. Just watch out for those swinging pendulums.  First Published: September 11, 2009: 4:20 PM ET


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 29, 2009)

thats the one +rep for throwing it up...... I got a good laugh anyway hehe


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## DaGambler (Oct 3, 2009)

jjmd said:


> DaGambler - How are you making out with the new setup? I seen you take your grow a little more hydro in pics that you have posted but nothing since. I was interested to see the diffrence from doing a hempy grow to placing those into the water basins with the air and water flow.


*Video Recap and UPDATE:*

*Round 1:*

[youtube]_BzZhNLu9BU&feature=related[/youtube]

*Round 2:*

[youtube]Z4sBZmTYmlI[/youtube]

*Round 3: (Current Ebb 'N Flow Setup 6000w Flower Room)*

[youtube]RUP3m1aIL1Y[/youtube]

*Full Size Video Link:*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUP3m1aIL1Y

*Sorry if i didn't get ur name in the CREDITS this time around... went back in my journal as far as i could, but ran out of space.*
*.*


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## southern homegrower (Oct 3, 2009)

looking good man. great video


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## shnkrmn (Oct 3, 2009)

Knockout in Round Three! And thanks for the credit!


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## nellyatcha (Oct 3, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> *Video Recap and UPDATE:*
> 
> *Round 1:*
> 
> ...


 
thats nice shit man for real


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## DaGambler (Oct 3, 2009)

RichThaMan said:


> [youtube]4pXfHLUlZf4[/youtube]


i try to keep this about weed... but Holy Shit is this video funny ... 

anywho, i'm at around day 48 or so. the day of destruction draws nearer - i'll be murdering a bit more than half of the clones i have going, take it down to 49 mums on the next go round. prolly going to be keeping only 2 of the White Russian strains going, as well as several clones from the Durban Poison... primarily, though, i'll be trying to get at least 35 of the 49 being Mr. Nice (G13 x Hash Plant). They can use and/or need more nutes than the other strains, are very disease resistant, hardy, clone well enough, are tolerant of high moisture levels, need almost no supports due to thick stem growth, and i just like the shape and structure of an indica, by golly.

oh, and the 'high' is easily my favorite of the three.


.


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## bigjesse1922 (Oct 3, 2009)

Thanks for the acknowledgement DG!

Its an honor to be mentioned in such an epic visual representation of your op!

It looks like you will be breaking 5 elbows this time at very least!


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## DaGambler (Oct 4, 2009)

*Ye ol' camera's a bit outdated... i never get good camera lighting like raidermans... this here's the best i can do for bud porn:*







*Some Durban Poison; very crystally, a sweet and oily bud, fast-finishing sativa with a cerebral high.*







*Mr. Nice with four 'heads' on one of the girls.*







*Another Mr. Nice; a pure indica G13 x Hash Plant, very meditative 'narcotic' high.*







*A White Russian, this pic makes it look like airy lettuce, but she does have some good flower and trichome development; probably the highest in T.H.C. content.*
*.*


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 4, 2009)

Finally...

Some Pictures!! 

Looks way better than the vids 

good job


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## Hulk Nugs (Oct 5, 2009)

very nice grow you have going here man .......... the colas are looking huge gotta love that .. keep it up man


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## raiderman (Oct 5, 2009)

perfect selecion of strains my friend.i'm really wanting a rerun of the g13hp, thier strong plants.looks fantastic,rdr.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 5, 2009)

I just can't get over the song in "Round 3" ........ what is that song so I can download it and blast it to my plants


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## Smokiethebear (Oct 5, 2009)

Shit looks good they definitely are packin on the buds should be a nice harvest.it will be chop day before long huhhh? Still workin with the same number of plants it looks thinner in there maybe its just cause its not a sea of green anymore its a sea of buds


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## DaGambler (Oct 5, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> I just can't get over the song in "Round 3" ........ what is that song so I can download it and blast it to my plants


its known as 'Destination Unknown' ... the full uncut youtube video is H-A-W-T !!
.


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## DaGambler (Oct 5, 2009)

Smokiethebear said:


> Shit looks good they definitely are packin on the buds should be a nice harvest&#8230;.it will be chop day before long huhhh? Still workin with the same number of plants it looks thinner in there maybe its just cause its not a sea of green anymore its a sea of buds


naw, you've got a good eye. did some thinning, etc. there's currently around 150 in there i would guess. going to be much different when i drop to 49 mums on the next crop. i've got over 130 clones... so i'll just use the indicas mostly next time... maybe skip cloning altogether (put 49 into flower and continue to veg. 49 of the the current clone crop).

the Durban poison will finish in about 1 1/2 weeks... the Mr. Nice probably needs another 3 weeks. I just bumped my lights to 13 on / 11 off... hopefully eek out a bit more weight - though it will also slightly lengthen the finish time.
.


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## Thundercat (Oct 5, 2009)

Hey man, looking great as always. I loved the new video, and thanks for the shout out in the credits! I hope once I get my garden dialed in it looks half as sweet as yours man. Peace TC


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## tilemaster (Oct 5, 2009)

DID i miss any of the pics from ur revised diy custom built flood tables...and the pump and all the shit i need to see to envision my future master piece?


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## DaGambler (Oct 6, 2009)

tilemaster said:


> DID i miss any of the pics from ur revised diy custom built flood tables...and the pump and all the shit i need to see to envision my future master piece?


heheh. not by much... if you missed anything it's in the last 2 pages... Review of Videos 1 and 2 and Intro to Video 3 - 6k flower ebb 'n flow as well as clones in ebb 'n flow.
.


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## jjmd (Oct 6, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> *Video Recap and UPDATE:*


I finally made it to a computer that played flash video's, The only thing I can say is thats *AMAZING.* 

I have one question for you, what lottery did you hit? that setup is ... mind blowing.


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## DaGambler (Oct 7, 2009)

jjmd said:


> I have one question for you, what lottery did you hit? that setup is ... mind blowing.


meh, JACKMAYOFFER's currently running a more tricked-out setup.

this one, bare-bones, is the (6) 1k burners for about 1400. Add a couple (3) fans to clear out the room / hoods for about 450 ... and about 250 bucks on (12) flouro's... so you could run something similar for just over 2k. i've wasted a lot more money than that of course  but you wouldn't have to.
.


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## erkelsgoo420 (Oct 7, 2009)

I bow before u. Thanks again for the shout out in the credits. Need a helping harvest hand? Will work for trim haha I'm gonna go stand on a freeway offramp with a sign sayin thay and see how it goes lol


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## DaGambler (Oct 7, 2009)

erkelsgoo420 said:


> I bow before u. Thanks again for the shout out in the credits. Need a helping harvest hand? Will work for trim haha I'm gonna go stand on a freeway offramp with a sign sayin thay and see how it goes lol


damn't ... now i have to bow back. i'll let you bow lower though  






.


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## erkelsgoo420 (Oct 7, 2009)

I can't go too far with this I got a bad back


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## DaGambler (Oct 20, 2009)

*BIGGEST NEWS SINCE CALLY FIRST ANNOUNCED MEDICAL MARIJUANA LAWS ... MARIJUANA LEGAL FROM A FEDERAL STANDPOINT !!!*

*Obama Administration Announces New Policy: Will Stop Arresting Medical Marijuana Patients and Providers in Compliance with Their States Medical Marijuana Law, Even if it Conflicts with Federal Law*

_DPA Statement: New Guidelines Are Clear Mandate, Rogue District Attorneys Need to Stop Harassing and Going after Patients and Dispensaries_

*For Immediate Release: Monday, October 19, 2009. **Contact: Tony Newman 646-335-5384 or Ethan Nadelmann 646-335-2240

*The Obama Administration is releasing new guidelines today directing federal drug agents not to arrest or harass medical marijuana patients and their sanctioned suppliers in states that have approved the medicine, as long as they are following their states medical marijuana law. The new guidelines will impact thirteen states that currently allow marijuana for medical purposes. The states that allow some use of marijuana for medical purposes are: Alaska, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington.
The guidelines are consistent with previous comments made by Attorney General Eric Holder back in March, and campaign pledges made by President Obama in 2008. 
Ethan Nadelmann, executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance issued the following statement:
It's great to see the Obama administration making good on the promises that candidate Obama made last year. These new guidelines effectively open the door to sensible collaboration between state governments and medical marijuana providers in ensuring that patients have safe and reliable access to their medicine.
What remains unclear is how the Justice Department will respond to rogue state attorneys, such as San Diego's Bonnie Dumanis, who persist in undermining state medical marijuana laws in their local jurisdictions.
Now is the right time for the Obama administration to move forward with federal legislation to end the irrational prohibition of medical marijuana under federal law.


*PREPARE FOR THE AVALANCHE IN THE NEXT 12-24 MONTHS OF STATES THAT WILL ADOPT MEDICAL MARIJUANA LAWS - TO JUMP ON THE TAXATION BANDWAGON. SO LONG MEXICAN MARIJUANA DRUG CARTELS ... HELLO ALLEVIATION OF CHRONIC PAIN !!*
*.*


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## DaGambler (Oct 20, 2009)

To quote Slightly Stoopid, 

"We don't need no cocaine, we don't need no ecstasy to ruin our brain - only one thing sets us free, frees our pain, talk'in bout the herb ..."

[youtube]NfKexB7qKrs&feature=related[/youtube]
.


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## BooMeR242 (Oct 20, 2009)

good shit i was stoked monday morning when i heard the news from my professor


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## K1Ng5p4d3 (Oct 21, 2009)

Wuddup man?!? 

Just checked out your youtube vid n that shit is sick as fuck man!!
your setup is lookin awesome. Can't even compete with that shit......yet  . lol, i bin away for awhile due to some unforseen setbacks, but im back now on the road to recouping n recovering losses taken along the way bro. Ill have my room back up n in full effect within the month here, so make sure you swing by in a week or two here. Right now i have a few Kush bitches that are on the larger side (LL OGK, Sour Larry OGK, and Tahoe OGK..5 in all with a couple midgets leftover from what i could salvage) that im flowerin out right now in the tent i picked up right before i disappeared, but i got a few beans en route to the pad, n will be starting up a N.Soul/King's Kush/Kandy Kush(maybe) grow here within the next two weeks. 

I got a new spot, new genetics, and i aint fuckin around with this fuckin experimental shit anymore. Im growin in Pro mix with Botanicare & AN nutes, n im growin trees. 6-7 wk MINIMUM veg on everything that grows in my garden from here on out, n ill be working my way up to a Perpetually kept 25 plant garden. I set my ebb/flow trays to the side for the time being, and im about to get it crackin with this shit. Now i just need to re-stockpile some more genetics, so i can figure out what grows best into some fuckin trees rather than lollipops, n im in business.

Sorry to jack your shit for a sec there man, but i missed ya, what can i say  lol. Im here daily but i aint posting in my journal but once or twice a week until i have something worthy to post up in that shit. Anyways bro, nice to see your still alive n kickin n makin your shit work like magic 

Take care man, hope to see u soon 

-K1.


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## BAYAREAMEDICAL (Oct 21, 2009)

ROLLL THE DICE AGIAN AND AGIAN.... 7K NEW SETUP AND LAY OUT PEEP IT NEWJOURNAL https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/259654-bayareamedicals-7k-grow-op-2-a.html#post3271626

WHAT YOU GOT GOING ON NOW?


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## Smokiethebear (Oct 21, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> *BIGGEST NEWS SINCE CALLY FIRST ANNOUNCED MEDICAL MARIJUANA LAWS ... MARIJUANA LEGAL FROM A FEDERAL STANDPOINT !!!*
> 
> *Obama Administration Announces New Policy: Will Stop Arresting Medical Marijuana Patients and Providers in Compliance with Their States Medical Marijuana Law, Even if it Conflicts with Federal Law*
> 
> ...


 
I seen this on the news and its cool and Im happy for the people that it effects....but me I live in a state with marijuana laws that are inline with the feds so pretty harsh and we have no medical marijuana laws and I dont see that changing in the near future so for me its business as usual... I do see it as a step forward Im glad Obama finally made good on his promise..but other than maybe a couple more states adopting med laws in the next few years I dont think it will change much and the next president can go back to the old ways of doing thingshopefully Im wrong and in the next couple years we all will be smoking medical marijuana but I just dont see it


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## DaGambler (Oct 21, 2009)

BAYAREAMEDICAL said:


> ROLLL THE DICE AGIAN AND AGIAN....


right on. glad to see things didn't go 'snake eyes' on you. one of these days maybe we'll both get lucky.
.


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## DaGambler (Oct 21, 2009)

Smokiethebear said:


> I seen this on the news and its cool and Im happy for the people that it effects....but me I live in a state with marijuana laws that are inline with the feds so pretty harsh and we have no medical marijuana laws and I dont see that changing in the near future so for me its business as usual... I do see it as a step forward Im glad Obama finally made good on his promise..but other than maybe a couple more states adopting med laws in the next few years I dont think it will change much and the next president can go back to the old ways of doing things&#8230;hopefully Im wrong and in the next couple years we all will be smoking medical marijuana but I just dont see it


right, right. no change in my area either ... except that there will be a renewed attempt to pass medical marijuana legislation, which would deffinitely be a bonus if it passed. until more states hop on the medi-mary wagon - it may be awhile before Marijunana is re-classified as a Schedule II (medically valued) controlled substance.
.


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## DaGambler (Oct 21, 2009)

K1Ng5p4d3 said:


> ... n ill be working my way up to a Perpetually kept 25 plant garden. I set my ebb/flow trays to the side for the time being,-K1.


ya, i'm looking at a perpetual 48 plant flower room (with another 48 in clone / veg) ... i think larger trees and lower plant numbers are the way to go man, till this shit is legal. Surprised ur hanging up the Hydro Hat... seemed like ur project was going pretty well. I think i might be hooked on hydroponics - deffinitely still tweaking things though and trying to figure out the best media to use. i'm still keeping an eye on ur journal. 
.


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## Smokiethebear (Oct 21, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> right, right. no change in my area either ... except that there will be a renewed attempt to pass medical marijuana legislation, which would deffinitely be a bonus if it passed. until more states hop on the medi-mary wagon - it may be awhile before Marijunana is re-classified as a Schedule II (medically valued) controlled substance.
> .


Yea we have been trying to get it some kind of decriminalized here it never goes too far just a couple of failed votes on it maybe this is the first step in federal decriminalization I see that happening way before legalization or even medical on a federal level


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## southern homegrower (Oct 22, 2009)

DAGAMBLER. just stopped by to see how you were doing


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 22, 2009)

you may be interested in my combined soil hydro technique once it gets going in my perpetual grow.... I will let you know when it has been established


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## DaGambler (Oct 23, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> you may be interested in my combined soil hydro technique once it gets going in my perpetual grow.... I will let you know when it has been established


soil stays too wet...

a drip setup can be used with soil... but only when ur underwatering as a supplemental watering (indoors) or using a drip setup outdoors.

16 oz. sphagnum plugs (soil, for all intents and purposes) placed in the center of 3 gallons of perlite kept the root ball way too moist and inhibited root growth in my last crop.... going to pure perlite on the next crop.

but good luck with it. i'll be interested in your results.
.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 23, 2009)

sphagnum plug is not soil...... sphagnum is notorious for holding too much water, unless it dries out, then it is resistant to water, not a good choice as a pure medium, same IMO as perlite


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## shnkrmn (Oct 23, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> sphagnum plug is not soil...... sphagnum is notorious for holding too much water, unless it dries out, then it is resistant to water, not a good choice as a pure medium, same IMO as perlite


sphagnum is NOTHING like perlite. perlite barely holds any water and doesn't wick very much either. sphagnum does both in spades. It's not a soil, true, but it behaves much more like soil than media like perlite or hydroton.

But a 16 oz plug seems like trouble from the start, especially in flood and drain since the watering is auto and not strictly need-based. That plug would always be soaking wet. My current clones are having trouble because I added a little vermiculite to my perlite (20%) and now they are staying too wet in the root zone. I'm going to have to move them into the pure perlite they are craving.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 23, 2009)

what was inferred was simply that niether perlite nor sphagnum would be ideal for the optimum media for production when used alone ..... not that their properties as a media are the same


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## DaGambler (Oct 24, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> ... That plug would always be soaking wet. My current clones are having trouble because I added a little vermiculite to my perlite (20%) and now they are staying too wet in the root zone. I'm going to have to move them into the pure perlite they are craving.


yupper. i could see that being a problem if you were auto-watering once per day. you might just skip to every other day until they seem a bit more resistant to the over-watering (over water retention).

i deffinitely think i'll see 20-40 percent more flower/bud action with the clones in pure perlite from the start. I finish harvesting this weekend and the "clones" currently in pure perlite 18 oz. cups will be transplanted into 3 gal. containers. this weekend as well. I'll see soon enough, but i don't really have any doubt that i inhibited root growth on the last crop - and that yield suffered as a result. At least this time i know i will have payed the electric bill  my last hempy crop sucked arse. hydro from here on out, no doubt.
.


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## jmanno1 (Oct 24, 2009)

looks like amiture week lol


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## DaGambler (Oct 24, 2009)

jmanno1 said:


> looks like amiture week lol


hmm.... damn the internets lack of tone and / or facial features and body language, etc.

so... you've got 4 posts, i know nothing about you and have absolutely no idea how to take that comment... Positive? Negative? You don't like my 3 youtube videos? Pulled 4 1/2 lbs. on the first crop ... so i guess i'm just not feeling very "amateur" ish. 
.


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## southern homegrower (Oct 24, 2009)

jmanno1 said:


> looks like amiture week lol


where did that come from


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## jjmd (Oct 24, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> yupper. i could see that being a problem if you were auto-watering once per day. you might just skip to every other day until they seem a bit more resistant to the over-watering (over water retention).
> 
> i deffinitely think i'll see 20-40 percent more flower/bud action with the clones in pure perlite from the start. I finish harvesting this weekend and the "clones" currently in pure perlite 18 oz. cups will be transplanted into 3 gal. containers. this weekend as well. I'll see soon enough, but i don't really have any doubt that i inhibited root growth on the last crop - and that yield suffered as a result. At least this time i know i will have payed the electric bill  my last hempy crop sucked arse. hydro from here on out, no doubt.
> .


I know what you mean about the hempy buckets vs. hydo. I have a bucket that is very slow growing, nice and bushy, but slow. I started a second plant in a hydro set up. twice the growth. Like daily result. pic 1 is about 7 weeks. pic 2 is about 2 1/2. weeks.


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## DaGambler (Oct 24, 2009)

jjmd said:


> I know what you mean about the hempy buckets vs. hydo. I have a bucket that is very slow growing, nice and bushy, but slow. I started a second plant in a hydro set up. twice the growth. Like daily result. pic 1 is about 7 weeks. pic 2 is about 2 1/2. weeks.


ya, no going back to hempy.

i noticed some algae on ur hempy girl... for preventative in the hydro setup you can also do the same; add 30 mL H202 3% from walmart to your rez. and/or all of the water that you are watering with just before watering... every watering until it clears up. on the perlite you'd want to water from the top down, but i guess you are already doing that  in addition to this you can add an algae destroyer (often by the same name) for any aquarium setup at the prescribed amount.
.


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## jjmd (Oct 24, 2009)

Thanks for the FYI. WALMART first thing Monday. how much of a hit do you think Roxzy (I named her) would take if I transfered her to a hydro set up?


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## Hulk Nugs (Oct 24, 2009)

jjmd said:


> Thanks for the FYI. WALMART first thing Monday. how much of a hit do you think Roxzy (I named her) would take if I transfered her to a hydro set up?


 
Did you say WALMART HMMM here you go,  , just had to share


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## erkelsgoo420 (Oct 24, 2009)

Dg! Hey bro sorry its been a while. Cancers been keepin a brother down lol glad to see that last one worked out and uve stepped to the dark side its been so long since I've checked in I'm amazed yet again man. I enjoyed looking through the last few rounds u can really see an improvement each time... And improving on what ur already doin is sayin somethin keep at it and DEFINETLY buy as many big bottles of hydrogen peroxide as posiible it will make all the difference eventually. I made it the whole grow almost only to have a pythium (sp?) Attack hp is theonly reason I have a harvest to speak of. Gl and keep tokin!


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## DaGambler (Oct 25, 2009)

erkelsgoo420 said:


> ... Cancers been keepin a brother down


sorry to hear that. my favorite dog has bone cancer. the weed has been keeping her more comfortable than the other 3 prescription drugs that i have tried (tramadol, derramax, and rymadill) though i still use the rymadill as an anti-inflammatory.

co-worker was telling me about how his son was dying quickly of bone cancer years back - that's why i was willing to try it. said they gave him morphine until that was no longer doing it for him, then (right here in the state of texas, a non-medi-mary state) the doctors started handing him bags of marijuana. said his son (probably 35 at the time) never really enjoyed 'the buzz' but that it allowed him to spend his last days with some degree of alertness and dignity. guess we're all dying slowly. ya think someone with cancer might win the race, then you get hit by a bus or have a heart-attack. best wishes man. thats why i try to live every day like its my last. just trying to appreciate all the little things, ya know. 
.


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## DaGambler (Oct 25, 2009)

jjmd said:


> Thanks for the FYI. WALMART first thing Monday. how much of a hit do you think Roxzy (I named her) would take if I transfered her to a hydro set up?


just the same, 30 mL for every gallon of water just before watering along with some AlgaeDestroyer - both available at walmart... one in medicine and the other in pet supplies. once it clears up you can just use the prescribed amount once or twice weekly as a preventative. could take up to a couple weeks to clear up.
.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 25, 2009)

lots of media bout herb right now..... read like 50 new articles in the last 3 or so days...... are you ready?


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## DaGambler (Oct 25, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> lots of media bout herb right now..... read like 50 new articles in the last 3 or so days...... are you ready?


ya bro, i hear what ur saying. i've seen it in the media a lot lately too. i feel like the masses are almost ready to embrace marijunana.

with the combination of caffeine, alcohol, and thc ... maybe we can keep ourselves comfortably numb for another decade or so while waiting for the last of the north pole to melt into the ocean 
.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 25, 2009)

lol.... maybe...... or maybe they will just bring out the real dogs once the smoke screen of a national legalization campaign dissapates


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## erkelsgoo420 (Oct 25, 2009)

Talk about twisted humor. Were talkin cancer and imma get offed by global warming haha. O appreciate the kind words but I don't focus on it much its just when I have to do therapy I end up in bed for a while but I'm an angry stubborn prick so ill likely either have a heart attack cause my temper or ill be to stubborn to die. I was diagnosed 19 years 3 months and 6 days ago and I'm still here and fairly well. Time to medicate


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## DaGambler (Oct 25, 2009)

right on brotha.
.


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## DaGambler (Oct 27, 2009)

*24 Durban Poisons in the right 5'x10' gulley under 3k HPS*







*9 Mr. Nice foreground and 15 White Russian background under another 3k over in the left gulley*







*Both gulleys with most of the lights just coming on - just transplanted these today*








*The water-works*







*Still gotta swap out some innards on a 1k hps so it'll fire something other than this metal halide*







*Finished harvesting today and also just bogged these 18 oz. pure Perlite cups into the 3 gal. pure Perlite pots with bottoms of cups cut off*







.  .  .  .  .  .

the last harvest was very bad. it is true, i suck. someday i'll get it right. in the mean-time i have over 3 lbs. at least. good quality stuff - just very low quantity for the lamps i'm burning. most i've been burning for about a year now. got all new bulbs ready for the next round after these "clones" are acclimated to their entry into the flower room under the older bulbs. life goes on. i should have another harvest in 11-13 weeks.

there's people doing it bigger. and there's people doing it better. but, god love me, i'm trying.







.


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## K1Ng5p4d3 (Oct 27, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> ya, i'm looking at a perpetual 48 plant flower room (with another 48 in clone / veg) ... i think larger trees and lower plant numbers are the way to go man, till this shit is legal. Surprised ur hanging up the Hydro Hat... seemed like ur project was going pretty well. I think i might be hooked on hydroponics - deffinitely still tweaking things though and trying to figure out the best media to use. i'm still keeping an eye on ur journal.
> .


Yeh i dont think ill ever be completely done with hydro. Right now though it just seems more economical for me to focus on some huge ass trees, and get my knot goin before i focus on growing a shit ton of smaller ladies. Im not even close to set up for perpetual yet, so to grow some huge ass plants that'll yield 3-4 (hopefully)oz a piece n only have to grow like 15-20 plants for starters just seems like where i need to be at. My beans just got here, so i got a couple days to fuck around with my gameplan. I havent even bought n prepped my soil yet, so who knows man. Maybe ill change shit up completely by the time my seedlings are where i want them, lol. Your pretty farmiliar with how i grow man, lol, im sortof all over the place until the last minute. Too many possibilities for one god damn grower, lolol. 

Anyways man, congrats on the success, n ill be around 

-K1.


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## shnkrmn (Oct 27, 2009)

Ahhhh, those are great shots. Now I see how you converted your old hempy buckets into the flood and drain system. I know I'm headed there within the next couple months, maybe even with my new clone run. I've only got 16, so I'll just run one table to start.

I've gone a long way with the buckets but your new setup is all filled up with efficiencies



DaGambler said:


> there's people doing it bigger. and there's people doing it better. but, god love me, i'm trying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Hulk Nugs (Oct 27, 2009)

Nice update man!!! 

Gotta love the on going grows one cycle after a next cant get any better then that.

Was wondering what are your temps like ???


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## shnkrmn (Oct 27, 2009)

Did you drill more holes in your buckets like on the bottom or do they still contain a reservoir that holds solution?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 27, 2009)

how long have those plants been in flower? I know different for each basin etc...... but each basin?

Do you move your lights up/down?

Have you considered adding in between vertical hanging lights?

will you not budge on your media?

Have you considered your air flow situation, adding CO2?

Fine tune methodology to grasp those desired weights......

Lets get you dialed in my friend....


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## Smokiethebear (Oct 27, 2009)

Damn bro that kinda sucks...I thought with the changes you were going to have a massive yield...any idea what could be going wrong?...maybe its time to try some new strains?


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## Thundercat (Oct 27, 2009)

looks like a great start to round two man!


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## DaGambler (Oct 28, 2009)

Hulk Nugs said:


> Was wondering what are your temps like ???


i'm using the 'greenhouse method of ventilation'. a 1000+ cfm fan at the peak of the room removes all excess heat not carried away by the two 400+ cfm runs (outdoor to outdoor) in the summertime indoor temps are always a few degrees cooler than outdoor temps. a large floor vent pulls from directly under the house. so if its 100 outside its about 92 inside. 90 outside would be about 84 inside. 80 outside 74 inside. No a.c. is used... more juice for me to use on lamps 

with wintertime coming i've already pulled the ends off the (2) 400+ cfm runs and use the slightly heated air to further warm the room. eventually i'll pull the begginings off of those runs, such that the air inside the room is just circulated by the 400's and not pulled from outside. when it gets arctic cold i'll shut off the 1000 cfm room-top fan and turn on the "400 cfm" lowe's duct booster fan which will just slowly pull fresh air into the room and exhaust it into the attic. At some point i'll probably have to use the space heater again a little.
.


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## DaGambler (Oct 28, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> Did you drill more holes in your buckets like on the bottom or do they still contain a reservoir that holds solution?


yes, there are at least (7) 1/4" holes at the very bottom rim of each pot. no reservoir. and i'm finding that it is actually possible to overwater in perlite. i'm moving toward watering every other day. the flood height is about 5". if you can dig down one inch, pull out a piece of perlite and squeeze almost as much water out of it as there was perlite to start with ... you know ur over-watering 
.


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## DaGambler (Oct 28, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> how long have those plants been in flower? I know different for each basin etc...... but each basin?
> 
> Do you move your lights up/down?
> 
> ...


these were trasplanted into the flower room the day the pictures were taken... i'll begin flowering in approx. 2-4 weeks.

almost added one vertical bulb in the center of the room during trichome production of the crop just harvested 2 days ago... but i was broke at the time and couldn't afford to buy and fix new wiring if i burnt out some romex  i may or may not add a couple vertical bulbs to the center of the room at some point (as supplemental lighting to the 6k already burning).

the lights are all on chains. their current height is just the starting height, they will come down to within 12" or 18" within a couple jumps over a few days.

i'm not ready to add co2; i'd have to get a good a.c. unit and dedicate juice to that rather than to the lamps ... so i'd have to cut down on the number of bulbs i'm burning.

as far as media goes... i just did budge on it  i went to perlite in perlite, rather than sphagnum in perlite. to me the media isn't as important as the technique that goes with it. i just have to figure out the proper technique for perlite. it is an inert media that holds a good amount of both air and water... it should do the trick.

i'm still dialing things in man. don't give up on me yet 
.


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## DaGambler (Oct 28, 2009)

Smokiethebear said:


> Damn bro that kinda sucks...I thought with the changes you were going to have a massive yield...any idea what could be going wrong?...maybe its time to try some new strains?


the sphagnum i was using inhibited root growth, it stayed too wet. this was my first round with hydroponics... i had to tweak things a couple times. i had to realize that you have to almost completely empty the rez every 2 weeks 'cuz you can have a deficiency even with good pH and ppms. i also grew them way too tall ... and so there was not 3-dimensionality to the canopy - only a thin top layer of buds on long-arse legs.

strains? deffinitely. while manicuring last weekend i grew quite sick of how leafy a pure indica can be. that's why i went with the mix of pure sativa and a hybrid predominantly on this current round.

i'll also be starting some seeds from the breeding that i did. while the Mr. Nice is too damn leafy of a pure indica... i made sure to cross it with the Durban Poison, some White Russian, and some White Widow. I could deffinitely use some new genetics so hopefully one of the crosses works out for me. I'd love to get some purple in the mix. I'm tempted to pop over to Raiderman's and ask what his 'to die for' one and only purple pick would be. Even though i hate mail ordering stuff.
.


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## DaGambler (Oct 28, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> looks like a great start to round two man!


heh heh. actually its round 4.  butta, ya man, here's hoping. 
.


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## Hulk Nugs (Oct 28, 2009)

Dam Gambler, i think you covered everyone great job !!!! 

You told me just what i wanted to hear, i am getting excited 

Heres to round 4 , doing a great job keep it up man


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## Thundercat (Oct 28, 2009)

I meant round 2 in the hydro! That was a big switch in how you did things.


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## DaGambler (Oct 29, 2009)

Thundercat said:


> I meant round 2 in the hydro! That was a big switch in how you did things.


i see, i see.

I picked up (4) "7 Day Digital Timers" today... 2 for clone / veg and 2 for the flower room.

the revised watering schedule is once per day on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday (No watering on Tues, Thurs, Sat. or Sun.)

i believe this will allow better air in the root zone without me having to dump 8 dollars worth of H2O2 into the rez. every day to maintain optimal levels. Though i was only doing that 3 time a week or so - and i may still do so on the 3 watering days. 

Perlite can stay too wet in a once a day ebb 'n flow watering schedule.
.


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## shnkrmn (Oct 29, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> Perlite can stay too wet in a once a day ebb 'n flow watering schedule.
> .


Are you using the Fox Farms big n chunky stuff? Or just regular garden center perlite? The FF is about pea/lima bean size and mostly doesn't have any small particles. I've used both and in hempy I think I prefer the smaller stuff, but in flood and drain, I'm thinking of using the big stuff or hydroton because they drain more thoroughly.


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## DaGambler (Oct 29, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> Are you using the Fox Farms big n chunky stuff? Or just regular garden center perlite? The FF is about pea/lima bean size and mostly doesn't have any small particles. I've used both and in hempy I think I prefer the smaller stuff, but in flood and drain, I'm thinking of using the big stuff or hydroton because they drain more thoroughly.


sunshine perlite coarse grade, most of it is around pea size. people seem to like hydroton... and are able to re-use it with some effort. i've heard a 50/50 mix of coco/perlite works nicely, but i don't really want to start making visits to hydroponic stores. i don't like the distance and i don't like the price and i don't like showing up to begin with at that locale. so i'm trying to tweak the perlite to optimal use. i get it for 17 bucks for a 4 cu. ft. bag so the whole grow costs about 68 dollars as far as media goes.  now if i can just figure out how to use it 
.


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## shnkrmn (Oct 29, 2009)

Wow, I figured you must be using the fine stuff to feel you can overwater. my buckets with large grain always get light a couple days faster than the ones in the regular stuff. To be honest, I can't tell the difference as far as plant performance goes.

Anyway, I'm just starting to think about going to active hydro. I need to look at some more journals for ideas. Your last set of pictures really made up my mind that it's time to change.
More, smaller plants faster is the goal.


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## DaGambler (Oct 30, 2009)

notoriousb





Stoner
*Stoner*
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Documented Med. Mari. Patient in Norte. Kal
Posts: 936 
*Gallery: https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-pics/index.php?u=132163

































*​*


*




*Re: asdgasdf* 
Quote:
Originally Posted by *DaGambler* 
_did thomas jefferson really say that?

-DG_

yea man, to my knowlege yes. I've seen a couple shows on the History Channel about the Founders and they elaborated that hemp was one of the most useful fibers to society in those days and it was even law that if you were a land owner you had to grow. I know they used to smoke tobacco out of pipes so then they started packing their pipes with "hemp" instead. the hemp they grew was of the ruderalis cannabis species because it grows so fast and autoflowers so it could be grown more than just once a year. 

so whenever anyone gets on you about smoking, you can jusst drop on them that allllll the founders did too! haha 
__________________
* "Some of my finest hours have been spent on my back veranda, smoking hemp and observing as far as my eye can see." -Thomas Jefferson, 1781 *
Nb's 600w Hps Basement Corner Grow (Current Grow)


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## tilemaster (Oct 31, 2009)

Sup DG..happy mo fo halloween.. bOO


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## jjmd (Nov 1, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> Are you using the Fox Farms big n chunky stuff? Or just regular garden center perlite? The FF is about pea/lima bean size and mostly doesn't have any small particles. I've used both and in hempy I think I prefer the smaller stuff, but in flood and drain, I'm thinking of using the big stuff or hydroton because they drain more thoroughly.


Have you ever thought about using river rocks. medium size and smooth? I'm using them now with some sucsess. I placed some in my water to hold my air stone in place and place them around the rockwool in my basket. It seams to be helping with the water temp, it seams to be staying cooler, and with the air stone and pebbles I am getting good circulation. but Im' just a newbie so... your Opinion is more then welcome.


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## Old Frog (Nov 3, 2009)

You've been busy, DaG. Hope all's duckets.


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## DaGambler (Nov 4, 2009)

Old Frog said:


> You've been busy, DaG. Hope all's duckets.


yes, yes - but i've been expousing the ways of the Old Frog as i am able 

i'd say i'm only 10 percent toward my goal at this point (of no longer growing)... but that beats 2 percent i guess. And if i could ever pull a decent crop it might bump me up to 30-40 percent there.

you know how its all just business. given the opportunity, i'm sure we'd both rather invest in a legitimate business enterprise.


.


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## Hulk Nugs (Nov 4, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> yes, yes - but i've been expousing the ways of the Old Frog as i am able
> 
> i'd say i'm only 10 percent toward my goal at this point (of no longer growing)... but that beats 2 percent i guess. And if i could ever pull a decent crop it might bump me up to 30-40 percent there.
> 
> ...


 
not fallowing the percent ? like saveings ? or your only pulling 10% of what you are going for on the harvest? just took a rip so didnt understand i will keep reading it might hit me 

hmmm Legitimate business be your own boss thats the american dream


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## DaGambler (Nov 4, 2009)

Hulk Nugs said:


> not fallowing the percent ? like saveings ? or your only pulling 10% of what you are going for on the harvest? just took a rip so didnt understand i will keep reading it might hit me
> 
> hmmm Legitimate business be your own boss thats the american dream


ja man. it's no secret... i just want to set back 40k as thats what i estimate it would cost to startup the legal business venture that i have in mind.

unfortunately, these days, pipe-dreams are about as close as most people will ever get to acheiving the american-dream.

"Sometimes ya just gotta Toss the Dice - and then leave Nothing to Chance."

- DaGambler
.


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## Lifted1 (Nov 4, 2009)

hey DG where you gettn that big azz bag of perlite for 17 bucks?

best i can manage is 2cu for 11 bucks so far.

thx.


also, i been experimenting with 2 gal bucket with DIY fabric pot inserted. Its workin way better to dry out the perlite. big difference. in your tray you could just rock the fabric pot. i need the buckets to catch runoff.

my larger buckets 4.25 gal of perlite/verm are showing over watering signs with one strain. smaller plants.

i think all those different strains are setn ya back as there so many inconsistent variables etc.

id def explore the weed preventer fabric pot tho. its helpn and a roll is like 15 bucks and you can make enuf to fill all those buckets or run straight. yer goin to need to sew a bit though but its easy as hell man. those smart pots are ripoffs.

sTaY lIfTeD!


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## DaGambler (Nov 5, 2009)

Nice ideas, man... +rep (Lifted1).

Good to hear i'm not the only one that has seen perlite stay too wet. I think i'll be alright now that i only water 3x per week in the ebb 'n flow, we'll see.

Those no weed DIY fabric pots are a good idea. I once grew in ceramic pots with soil. The ceramic dries things out quickly but there is much better air to the root zone. The plants love the air - so i can imagine your no-weed fabric pots working very nicely indeed.

Maybe next grow i'll try something a bit different... i just try to tweek one or two variables at a time.

Far as perlite goes, you might try the closest bulk feed store for like ranches and farms and such. Nurseries might also be able to help. Really though, if ur paying 22 bucks for 4 cu. ft. that's not -too- bad. i actually pay like 16.85 with tax included, so i'm not complaining  I almost gave up on finding it though after checking here there and everywhere. good luck.
.


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## JACKMAYOFFER (Nov 8, 2009)

DeGambler I would Highly suggest getting your hands on some CASEY JONES I have seen three grows this week that have pulled 3 to 4 lbs per 1000 watt and the finished product is real real good covered in trics great bag appeal and real good smoke...I know a few cash croppers switching over to CASEY,Blue Dream will also do you real good I really think your genitics can put you where you want to be... PM me if you need me to grab the steering wheel ...JACK


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## DaGambler (Nov 9, 2009)

Man, I wouldn't wish the last couple days (or the next couple) on my worst enemy.

Had to completely Tear Down the Op. One day to clean house - and one more day to completely remove any sign of marijunana growth. Had a house inspection. One time thing, won't happen again during this grow. Check out the most recent Video in my signature if you want to see what i was up against !!

Now to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. The biggest loss was the Mylar. Can't be re-used and it took hours to put it up the first time around. Boooooo. Hisssss.  .  . 







(EDIT: I'll look into that Casey Jones, Jack. Hopefully it would be available in seed form - as clones aren't really an option.)
.


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## shnkrmn (Nov 9, 2009)

Wow. So did you have to move all the green to another location? Fkn stinkwagon rolling down the street if you did!

The city is putting in new infrastructure on my block starting next May. New sewage, water, gas, street and sidewalks. New water service to my house. I am planning my next few months so that I'll be in a low activity clone mode by the time they have to come into my basement. I made a written checklist for emergency evacuation of the op. I want to be disrupted by that as little as possible.

What kind of 'home inspection' took place? A municipality? A landlord? Anyway, congrats on weathering that storm.


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## DaGambler (Nov 9, 2009)

Just had to toss the 48 mums out into a storage shed. Killed the clones - no real loss there. It was an appraisal so i can get into a mortgage on the place. Done deal. The mums will come back inside shortly. Do a quick reset on the gulleys, the fans, and the lights ... the rest of the crap will get done as it gets done. 

Check lists are always good. I try to be 'unspecific' when writing things on paper. 
.


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## sogrow (Nov 10, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> Man, I wouldn't wish the last couple days (or the next couple) on my worst enemy.
> 
> Had to completely Tear Down the Op. One day to clean house - and one more day to completely remove any sign of marijunana growth. Had a house inspection. One time thing, won't happen again during this grow. Check out the most recent Video in my signature if you want to see what i was up against !!
> 
> ...


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## slipperyP (Nov 10, 2009)

Man...that whole deal sounds fuct...how much notice did you have? Im sure it will come back together cleaner and better then before.


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## DaGambler (Nov 12, 2009)

yer... she was like "I'll be there 2 days from now". i was like, uh, no you won't. 

but it's coming back together. get the gulleys back going this weekend. right now its just the plants under fans and lights, no hydro. the walls will take a good deal longer. i may go with panda film this time... i don't like how mylar never seems to hang straight for long. can't keep that stuff taut for the life of me. 
.


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## slipperyP (Nov 12, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> yer... she was like "I'll be there 2 days from now". i was like, uh, no you won't.
> 
> but it's coming back together. get the gulleys back going this weekend. right now its just the plants under fans and lights, no hydro. the walls will take a good deal longer. i may go with panda film this time... i don't like how mylar never seems to hang straight for long. can't keep that stuff taut for the life of me.
> .



Im gonna order panda next time I reset...I don't think its as reflective but I think it seams to reflect alot of light and looks cleaner.


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## sogrow (Nov 12, 2009)

slipperyP said:


> Im gonna order panda next time I reset...I don't think its as reflective but I think it seams to reflect alot of light and looks cleaner.


Having used both I would never use Mylar again. Panda might not be as reflective but in my experience it distributes more evenly. Also it is way easier to work with and it doesn't make that annoying crinkling sound all the time. Plus you can reuse it!!


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## Smokiethebear (Nov 12, 2009)

I feel you on the take down bro back In the day I grew in a rented house I had to remove everything more then once...it more than just a pain in the ass its very stressful the whole time you are thinking what they might smell or find....it just sucks no more growing in rented houses for me


PS Panda film is way better than mylar...easier to put up and I think its more reflective unless you stretch , glue and use a roller to apply the mylar


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## DaGambler (Nov 12, 2009)

Smokiethebear said:


> I feel you on the take down bro ... its more than just a pain in the ass its very stressful ...


 
heheh. ya, no doubt. i made no alterations to the underside of the house (300 gal. rez, water pumps, tubing, air pumps, timers, etc.) - just crossed my fingers that no one would be crawling down there.

i had "5 hours of sleep" that night and they were 100% filled with nightmares. ah well, its over with now. and this home is now my castle - no one ever has the right to enter again.   
.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 12, 2009)

accept for me


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## shnkrmn (Nov 12, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> ah well, its over with now. and this home is now my castle - no one ever has the right to enter again.
> .



 Congrats!


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## DaGambler (Nov 29, 2009)

*Alrighty... the big boys seem to be too busy with their toys to keep up on their journals lately, so i'll try to keep you moderately entertained with my little-bitty grow-op.*







*This is when i had to de-construct the hydro setup for an emergency tear-down and housing inspection.*







*Putting Humpty Dumpty back together again with the dual pond liners.*







*Plants had been trasnplanted into the flower room for about 1 1/2 weeks at this point.*







*The Mr. Nice (front left) still hadn't taken off in the 3 gal. transplant buckets.*







*Mr. Nice (today) at 2 weeks into flowering from the flip to 12/12 in the foreground and White Russian in the back two-thirds of the pic. Mr. Nice now growing nicely.*







*The other gulley - pure Durban Poison. A champ even under less than ideal conditions.*







*Both gulleys - under 6k HPS. Finally switched the guts on the latest problematic ballast ... no more Metal Halide spare being used.*







*The current clone crop; 24 White Russian and 24 Durban Poison. I got sick of manicuring the Mr. Nice and said to hell with it. Maybe i'll start some hybrid seeds soon. Ur looking at almost all of the clones here ... a far cry from when i was running over 250 clones ... check the below VIDEO if you don't remember what that was like... Never used domes this time. They are 2 weeks in and will likely start to grow actively any day here.*

[youtube]RUP3m1aIL1Y&feature=channel[/youtube]

 *- DaGambler*
.


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## Hulk Nugs (Nov 29, 2009)

Looking good Gambler was wondering what happend to the journal.


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## jjmd (Nov 29, 2009)

Hey G,
Looking really sweet and clean unlike mine! Just started my own clones from my plants and I have a Question. I was wondering if you feel it would be better to clone without the domes? Sorry to ask and not look at the video. I am a computer Programmer and because of the environments I need to work with, Flash players don't work on my machines.


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## liljheazy (Nov 29, 2009)

dam! i just saw the journal and i gotta say man great setup


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## DaGambler (Nov 29, 2009)

jjmd said:


> Hey G,
> Looking really sweet and clean unlike mine! Just started my own clones from my plants and I have a Question. I was wondering if you feel it would be better to clone without the domes? Sorry to ask and not look at the video. I am a computer Programmer and because of the environments I need to work with, Flash players don't work on my machines.


my cloning experience is somewhat limited so i can only tell you that you -can- go without domes when cloning in pure perlite in a once a day ebb 'n flow setup you. just keep area temps between 65 and 85 (preferably 78 degrees) and humidity above 50 percent (preferably 60 or greater). You'd probably be alright going dome-less in an aerocloner as well. When you first take cuttings you can expect that all of them will lay down a few hours later. By the next day all of them should have perked back up again to the light. As long as you don't bruise or overly damage the cutting's stem - it will still be able to do this with a moist media around it. Also, make sure to bury the clones up to their first set of leaves. 

I wouldn't necessarily go without a dome(s) in any other media or with any other watering technique. Domes allow you to 'baby' the plants a bit more and might actually lead to a rooting time that is at least a couple of days faster. The greatest danger with domes is not have some air turnover leading to mold or increasing air flow too quickly when transitioning to dome-less-ness. Just crack the lids at first and then take them half off over a couple day period rather than just yanking it off. 

Happy Cloning  Until you are sure of your technique, hell, take twice as many as you need  When you have 100% success then you can worry about taking exactly what you want.
.


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## tilemaster (Nov 29, 2009)

looking good man. is that white russian from serious? just went to page 1 and confirmed...


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 29, 2009)

Genetics being what will make or break, what it all depends ON........ with Love...... of course....... You need an Elite strain!

Edit: And some of this hash I am smoking on....... Fucking A Man.... Fucking A


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## DaGambler (Nov 29, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Genetics being what will make or break, what it all depends ON........ with Love...... of course....... You need an Elite strain!
> 
> Edit: And some of this hash I am smoking on....... Fucking A Man.... Fucking A


Actually i need at least -2- 'Elite' Strains. I'd like for one of them to be purple. Otherwise, i have no idea. I need to do some research on the heaviest yeilding plants available -from seed-. I am, of course, open to suggestions. I've tweaked enough things that i think it's time to go back to the drawing board on strain selection.
.


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## Yaboii (Nov 29, 2009)

SWEET GROW! I'm kinda new to hydro/advance growing (soilhead here) and I never heard of "Hempy grow" until now.. Very cool!!


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 29, 2009)

This Chemo Cindy I have is Fabulous!!!!! And...... Twilight...... Twilight is turning out to be a heavy yielder........ Twilight comes out purple.... Chemo Cindy not..... Both are extremely resiliant....... Twilight is hard as shit to clone though........ Chemo Cindy is easy as pie to clone........ I have some Blueberry x Maui Skunk seeds on the way, and some Twilight x Maui Skunk seeds on the way...... should prove to be Very interesting ...... The Purple Maui Skunk would be fucking Amazing!!!!!........ I think if I back crossed it again with Twilight (female) it would be even better......

Its all up to you bro..... Tons of Choices...... 

Grapefruit X New York Sour D ....... that would be one of my top shelf choices to try..... but I certainly am no fan of ordering seeds ..... shrugs...... good luck, I am very curious to see where your search lands you......


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## tilemaster (Nov 29, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZCBRxrmIE

man id recommend blue dream. heres the smoke report above. ive got a personal friend that says its yield is copious, but its clone only. 

and then id run ecsd and im real happy with that 1's yields i just need a few more


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## Smokiethebear (Dec 2, 2009)

Looks like everythings up and running....plants are looking nice and healthy


Im envious of all you medi grows that can just walk into the coffee shop and pick up the dankest strains heres to you  LOL jusk kidding kinda


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## JACKMAYOFFER (Dec 12, 2009)

Check this heavy hitter out 3 to 4 lbs per 1000 watter she was made by JOESCHMOE .. http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f54/gtds-casey-jones-10345/index3.html Blue Dream is another good one the only problem is there is a lot of imposters ...Og Raskals Strawberry Bubba is available in seed I just popped 40 of them its Strawberry cough x Bubba kush. Looks like it can yield big huge frosty colas..Or you could go with DOUBLE's system I am building the same system rite now 10 plants 42 lbs ya let me type that again 10 plants 42 lbs indoors.....http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f131/42-pound-10-plant-tree-grow-14877/ Amazing shit he sold his system to a very large hydro company ...


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## DaGambler (Dec 13, 2009)

i saw mention of 4 lbs. per 1k light somewhere in there... but i don't know if its accurate.

as far as i can tell he was using 28 lights for that 44 lb harvest; 20 1k's and 8 600's. Plus its a sealed room with co2, chillers for the rez. etc. 30 thousand watts pretty easily. Way out of my league.

I'll have to re-think hydro setups after this second (ebb 'n flow) hydro harvest. Still want to see if there's a decent improvement over the last run.

Was looking at some Attitude seeds for 700 bucks per 10 fem. beans. Had my heart set on them (G13xHaze). Then i started to read smoke reports on the strain and found it completely standard fare (other than the beautiful silver / red appearance of the buds). So now i'm just popping the beans that i created. Mr. Nice crossed with 5 different strains: more Mr. Nice, White Widow, Durban Poison, White Russian and an auto-White Russian.

Still looking for a heavy yielder ... but it has to be from seed. And everytime i check out the seed recommended by someone it's out-of-stock  ah well. 
.


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## MacGuyver4.2.0 (Dec 15, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> i saw mention of 4 lbs. per 1k light somewhere in there... but i don't know if its accurate.
> 
> as far as i can tell he was using 28 lights for that 44 lb harvest; 20 1k's and 8 600's. Plus its a sealed room with co2, chillers for the rez. etc. 30 thousand watts pretty easily. Way out of my league.
> 
> ...


 
http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f131/42-pound-10-plant-tree-grow-14877/
Not sure how truthful it is, judge for yourselves.

If you are looking for sheer mass, or yield then I find it hard to beat the cola's I saw last night on this site! you GOTTA see this stuff!!!

BTW DaGambler, setup looking real sharp! Keep up the great work!


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## DaGambler (Dec 16, 2009)

Thanks fer the kind words. I'll see if i can't take a lesson from this feller everybody keeps pointing at.

- DaGambler
.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 16, 2009)

lol.... How is grow goin?


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## DaGambler (Dec 17, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> lol.... How is grow goin?


*Could be worse ... here's the current configuration; 2 gulleys each with 3k HPS over top and a 1k in the middle (total of 7k HPS):*

*




*

*Here's some Mr. Nice at 3 1/2 weeks into flower... i'll harvest this bunch toward the end of January.*

*




*

*Some White Russian behind those, but in the same 5' x 10' ebb 'n flow gulley:*

*




*

*Some Durban Poison (24 of 'em) in a gulley all to theirselves:*

*




*

*And another pic with all 3; Mr. Nice front, White Russian back left, and Durban Poison way back right.*

*




*

*This feller everyone keeps pointing at seems to have a stiffy for Roots Excelerator and MultiZen Enzymes (as well as being a fan of Deep Water Culture technique) ... so i'm still trying to pick some brains and thinking about adding these into the mix next time on the flip to flower or a couple weeks there-after.*
*.*


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## southern homegrower (Dec 17, 2009)

DaGambler, man they are looking good. i am having a problem maybe you can give me some advice? i am growing a blueberry strain and it looks great and smells great but the taste is terrible. i cant figure out whats wrong. the only thing i can think of is my ro machine brings the ph of my water to 4.3 then after i add the nutes it brings the ph down to 3.2 so i have to add quit a bit of ph up to the res. could using so much ph up make the buds taste different ?


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## raiderman (Dec 17, 2009)

Looks real ns DG.those are some standup girls there ,.very healthy,,looks tuned in to me.rdr.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 17, 2009)

Well I say.... things look nice in there...... better yield to be expected I would assume...... doesn't it make sense that thriving roots will provide better for bigger denser better nugs?


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## DaGambler (Dec 17, 2009)

southern homegrower said:


> DaGambler, man they are looking good. i am having a problem maybe you can give me some advice? i am growing a blueberry strain and it looks great and smells great but the taste is terrible. i cant figure out whats wrong. the only thing i can think of is my ro machine brings the ph of my water to 4.3 then after i add the nutes it brings the ph down to 3.2 so i have to add quit a bit of ph up to the res. could using so much ph up make the buds taste different ?


you've deffinitely got an issue there. The Reverse Osmosis should take your water to, say, 15-30 ppm or less. This means that just a couple drops of pH up or down should raise your pH by like an entire point in a 50 gal. reservoir. I can't imagine why the pH would be outside a range of say 5.5-8.5 after being through an RO device. And, once again, at the miniscule level of ppm's left over, a single drop of pH up should have a significant effect on that water. I would guess that your RO machine is no longer working... what are your ppm's at after you RO the water and havn't yet added anything back in there? If the ppm's are still ... 50 or more ... it's time to change your filters or just go for a new one.

taste can be screwed up by any number of things... pesticides, neem oil on the plant or in the rez., an abundance of any of several different nutes at harvest time without allowing the buds to slowly dry over a period of at least 5 days, burning a sulphur pot when there are buds on the plant... anything at all. Could also deffinitely be a result of how much pH adjuster you are having to use. I had a batch that tasted like crap. I stopped using neem, made sure to not use the sulphur burning after the 2nd week of flower, never sprayed the plants otherwise with any pesticides, etc... and that seemed to take care of it. I did use some cedar oil (GoGnats) in the rez. and that didn't seem to hurt anything when i was chasing off some fungus gnats mid-flower.
.


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## DaGambler (Dec 17, 2009)

raiderman said:


> Looks real ns DG.those are some standup girls there ,.very healthy,,looks tuned in to me.rdr.


deffinitely looking better than the last hydro crop. your technique gave me the mental fortitude to do what was needed at 1 week into flower... i lollipopped several inches of bottom growth from all the bottoms and then <gasp> hacked about 6" inches off the top of all the durban poisons, evening the canopy and bringing them back down to a decent height. Had i been too scared to butcher them at that point i'd be using boat-loads of bamboo just to support the branches already. Low and wide was deffinitely the way to lean this time. A week later you'd never know that i bush-wacked those durban poisons  A week after that i went through and removed a lot of fan leaves from the upper half of each plant... for better light penetration and lower bud development. May de-veg again in a couple weeks, we'll see.
.


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## DaGambler (Dec 17, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Well I say.... things look nice in there...... better yield to be expected I would assume...... doesn't it make sense that thriving roots will provide better for bigger denser better nugs?


100%. You take care of the roots and the plants will take care of themselves. Just wish that stuff wasn't so expensive. Everytime i treated the rez. with just those two products i'd be dumping about 130 dollars in. Could be well worth it, we'll see.
.


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## southern homegrower (Dec 17, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> you've deffinitely got an issue there. The Reverse Osmosis should take your water to, say, 15-30 ppm or less. This means that just a couple drops of pH up or down should raise your pH by like an entire point in a 50 gal. reservoir. I can't imagine why the pH would be outside a range of say 5.5-8.5 after being through an RO device. And, once again, at the miniscule level of ppm's left over, a single drop of pH up should have a significant effect on that water. I would guess that your RO machine is no longer working... what are your ppm's at after you RO the water and havn't yet added anything back in there? If the ppm's are still ... 50 or more ... it's time to change your filters or just go for a new one.
> 
> taste can be screwed up by any number of things... pesticides, neem oil on the plant or in the rez., an abundance of any of several different nutes at harvest time without allowing the buds to slowly dry over a period of at least 5 days, burning a sulphur pot when there are buds on the plant... anything at all. Could also deffinitely be a result of how much pH adjuster you are having to use. I had a batch that tasted like crap. I stopped using neem, made sure to not use the sulphur burning after the 2nd week of flower, never sprayed the plants otherwise with any pesticides, etc... and that seemed to take care of it. I did use some cedar oil (GoGnats) in the rez. and that didn't seem to hurt anything when i was chasing off some fungus gnats mid-flower.
> .


the ppm of my water after the ro is zero.


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## BooMeR242 (Dec 17, 2009)

rooms lookin great. ladies too of course


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## DaGambler (Dec 18, 2009)

southern homegrower said:


> the ppm of my water after the ro is zero.


then you got me stumped man, i can't even guess why ur pH is going so wild. sorry.
.


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## DaGambler (Dec 18, 2009)

BooMeR242 said:


> rooms lookin great. ladies too of course


thank you, sir.
.


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## southern homegrower (Dec 18, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> then you got me stumped man, i can't even guess why ur pH is going so wild. sorry.
> .


thanks for trying. i think its got to be the ph up im adding thats making the buds taste bad. i have to add 6tsp of G.H. ph up to 18 gals of water after i add the nutes to bring the ph to 5.9


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## DaGambler (Dec 19, 2009)

southern homegrower said:


> thanks for trying. i think its got to be the ph up im adding thats making the buds taste bad. i have to add 6tsp of G.H. ph up to 18 gals of water after i add the nutes to bring the ph to 5.9


5 mL (teaspoon) per 3 gallons of nuted water doesn't seem that bad. You could always switch to a different pH up brand, many use a different chemical to do the job. You might try flushing longer with plain water or even using Klearex or something toward the end.
.


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## southern homegrower (Dec 19, 2009)

i found out what it was my well pump does not come on until 20 psi. i got a new pressure switch that has a adjustment for the low side psi. the old one only had a high psi adjustment. i was having to buy new di resin for my ro machine every 2 weeks. the place i bought my ro machine from told me that my water was just real bad thats why i was going through the di resin so fast. well they were just milking me for $40.00 worth of resin every 2 wks them suns of bitches. so i guess i will find out if thats it the next round. thanks for the help. your plants are looking damn good


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## JACKMAYOFFER (Dec 20, 2009)

southern homegrower said:


> thanks for trying. i think its got to be the ph up im adding thats making the buds taste bad. i have to add 6tsp of G.H. ph up to 18 gals of water after i add the nutes to bring the ph to 5.9


You need to let your nutes for 24 hrs keep an air stone or a pump to keep the water oxygenated this will raise your ph ..JACK


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## JACKMAYOFFER (Dec 21, 2009)

MacGuyver4.2.0 said:


> http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f131/42-pound-10-plant-tree-grow-14877/
> Not sure how truthful it is, judge for yourselves.
> 
> If you are looking for sheer mass, or yield then I find it hard to beat the cola's I saw last night on this site! you GOTTA see this stuff!!!
> ...


 There always has to be one person who doubts every one and its usally the person who thinks they know every thingBut dont now nothing, Doubled has sold his system to a large hydro retailer for $450,000 and 11 percent from all net profits it will be released in early 2010..DeGambler you would not need to run that many lights just that type of a system the UNDER CURRENT HYDRO system is looking like a real big producer , And the 3 to 4 lbs per light was documented on THC farmer it was Casey Jones Joe Schmoes cut. I really think that vertical lighting will be the futer of growing with large plants. I under stand your seed issue's The seed you are looking for are out there its just going to take a shit load of seeds to find that killer pheno I just popped 80 seeds in hopes to find 24 and out of those the best 24 will go into my new system, Your plants look real good!! As far as genetics I see thats the only thing holding you back,There are a few seed company's on THCFARMER looking for testers they pop up a couple times a month if you post your grows over there also they will show you some love...There was some Double Under Dawg for sale a couple days ago that will easily pull 2 plus per light all day and it is very high quality..OK I will stop typing now hope I helped you a little if you have any questions feel free to pm me..JACK


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## southern homegrower (Dec 22, 2009)

JACKMAYOFFER said:


> You need to let your nutes for 24 hrs keep an air stone or a pump to keep the water oxygenated this will raise your ph ..JACK


Thanks for the info. i will try it


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## Bob Smith (Dec 22, 2009)

southern homegrower said:


> Thanks for the info. i will try it


You need to calibrate your pH meter (or your TDS meter), cuzzo - water with a PPM of 0 will have a pH of 7.0 (something scientific having to do with the lack of ions, but just take my word for it - ain't no way your 0 PPM water has a pH of anything outside of 6.8-7.2).

Gambler, very nice looking grow


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## southern homegrower (Dec 22, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> You need to calibrate your pH meter (or your TDS meter), cuzzo - water with a PPM of 0 will have a pH of 7.0 (something scientific having to do with the lack of ions, but just take my word for it - ain't no way your 0 PPM water has a pH of anything outside of 6.8-7.2).
> 
> Gambler, very nice looking grow


Thats what the last person i talked to said so i bought another ph meter and cal. both of them they read the same thing within .1 or .2


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## Bob Smith (Dec 22, 2009)

southern homegrower said:


> Thats what the last person i talked to said so i bought another ph meter and cal. both of them they read the same thing within .1 or .2


Then I've got some bad news for you; either:

1) Both your RO filter and TDS meter are not working correctly

or

2) You're in a parallel universe.

While "2" would be pretty damn cool, my guess would be for "1".

Firstly, have you calibrated your TDS meter lately (often overlooked next to pH, but very important in its own right).

Secondly, when's the last time you replaced the filters on your RO system?

Perhaps a new thread would be a better place to discuss this in order not to fill Gambler's grow journal up?

Send me (us) a link and we can diagnose it better there..........


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## JACKMAYOFFER (Dec 24, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Then I've got some bad news for you; either:
> 
> 1) Both your RO filter and TDS meter are not working correctly
> 
> ...


 I have to say you are not correct unless you have tried ever nute brand out there how can you say there is no way his PH can drop this happens to my nute mix mine does the exact same thing using ADVANCE as my base and The yellow bottle line (advance floriculture)as my boosters,When I mix my rez 115 gallons, and my second rez 100 gallons my ph will be in the low 4.3 range I let it sit for 24 hrs and it will raise to 5.5 then I add a little PH up and it stabalizes. From there on it will slowly rise ,Thats when I start adding PH down at half strength mixed with RO water, I have never had in Issue with PH or Nute lock... As far as thread Jacking De Gamblers thread im sur he dosent mind we are all hear to learn and if where not then we should not be here...JACK


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## Bob Smith (Dec 24, 2009)

JACKMAYOFFER said:


> I have to say you are not correct unless you have tried ever nute brand out there how can you say there is no way his PH can drop this happens to my nute mix mine does the exact same thing using ADVANCE as my base and The yellow bottle line (advance floriculture)as my boosters,When I mix my rez 115 gallons, and my second rez 100 gallons my ph will be in the low 4.3 range I let it sit for 24 hrs and it will raise to 5.5 then I add a little PH up and it stabalizes. From there on it will slowly rise ,Thats when I start adding PH down at half strength mixed with RO water, I have never had in Issue with PH or Nute lock... As far as thread Jacking De Gamblers thread im sur he dosent mind we are all hear to learn and if where not then we should not be here...JACK


Jack, wasn't making any assumptions or inferences regarding the pH drop (adding any nutes will cause your pH to drop, I know that mine do), I was simply telling him that there's no way that water with a TDS reading of "0" can have a pH of 4.3 when it comes out of his RO filter.

That's scientifically impossible.

That being said, either his TDS meter AND RO filter are broken, or his pH meter is broken.

Or, he's from another dimension where our known sciences don't apply 

EDIT: just thought of another possibility - perhaps his pH meter doesn't adjust for temperature, but even if that's the case, the temp of the water would have to be ~500F, which would be a (very hot) steam at that point.


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## Chong89 (Dec 24, 2009)

Wow...Kudos an a nice set-up and grow!

One of the first articles on indoor growing I read was fortunately this thread. I started a small [3.5'x3.5'] garden with a 400 HPS more less to get a feel and I'm sure, much trial and error experience. I basically threw some bag seed in virtually any container I could find around the house and filled it with a variety of mediums just to see what works and what doesn't.

Reading your thread [and countless hours of indoor growing as a whole.] I'm convinced that next round will be all Hempy buckets in a 4.5'x3.5' area with almost invariable a 1000 watt HPS. I'm going with S.O.G. and want to utilize every possible square inch that I can so I'm debating over container size. I'm wanting plant's no taller than about 4.5' so am thinking of going with 2 gallon buckets rather than the 3 gal. in hopes of sliding in a few extra plants.

Any thoughts/advice on container size?


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## DaGambler (Dec 26, 2009)

Chong89 said:


> I'm convinced that next round will be all Hempy buckets in a 4.5'x3.5' area with almost invariable a 1000 watt HPS. I'm going with S.O.G. and want to utilize every possible square inch that I can so I'm debating over container size. I'm wanting plant's no taller than about 4.5' so am thinking of going with 2 gallon buckets rather than the 3 gal. in hopes of sliding in a few extra plants.
> 
> Any thoughts/advice on container size?


2 to 3 gal. would be fine. Make sure you water ur plants from the top down every couple days through the first couple weeks in a hempy setup to get roots going down. If ur doing a manual hydroponic setup you'll continue watering from the top down anyway.

Just as a general rule, in a sea of green, you don't really want to shoot for plants being any taller than 3 feet at finish - 'cuz you won't get much better penetration than that with a 1000w HPS lamp. That means you'll want to flip them to flower when they are about 12-16" tall ... and consider lollipopping and topping them at about 1 weeks into flower. By the second week into flower you'll never be able to tell that you did it, but your sea of green will be much more productive and uniform.

4.5' feet tall would be fine in a vertical setup, but with just one lamp ... i think i'd stick to a flat sea of green garden. good luck, drop a link if you get'r up and running.

-DaGambler
.


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## Yaboii (Dec 26, 2009)

Dayum! Looking very nice Gam! Your video makes me want to go rent a house and blow it up!!


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## Chong89 (Dec 27, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> 2 to 3 gal. would be fine. Make sure you water ur plants from the top down every couple days through the first couple weeks in a hempy setup to get roots going down. If ur doing a manual hydroponic setup you'll continue watering from the top down anyway.
> 
> Just as a general rule, in a sea of green, you don't really want to shoot for plants being any taller than 3 feet at finish - 'cuz you won't get much better penetration than that with a 1000w HPS lamp. That means you'll want to flip them to flower when they are about 12-16" tall ... and consider lollipopping and topping them at about 1 weeks into flower. By the second week into flower you'll never be able to tell that you did it, but your sea of green will be much more productive and uniform.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your advice. I should've mentioned I meant 4.5' including the pots.

Like I said, this is the first time around [indoors] and I just kinda threw everything together the best I could with virtually no funds... Next time around I'll have a game plan in action and should do good.

Here are some pics. of my current set-up. It's kind of embarrassing posting these pics on the same thread as your room but I'm hoping you will see improvements I can make for the next run. As I said, I'm going next round with a full room and 2 gallon buckets and a 1000 watt HPS. I'll probably get mylar for the walls.

Any constructive criticism is much welcomed and appreciated.


PS...
Yes, that _is _aquarium gravel as a medium in the hempy pots, lol!


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## DaGambler (Dec 28, 2009)

just general stuff:

lower the light a bit if the heat isn't damaging the plants. bring all the lower plants up to the top (tallest) plants canopy height by using milk crates, chairs, boxes, etc. Flat white paint on the walls works fine. If you are going to hang something - i'd recommend Panda Film / Plastic rather than the mylar ... mylar is a pain to work with, cannot be cleaned, and cannot be re-used.

-DaGambler
.


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## southern homegrower (Dec 30, 2009)

DaGambler, After I got the pressure up on my well pump the ph of my water after the ro system is 5.7 way better then 4.3 like it was when i asked you for help. Just thought i would let you know.


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## DaGambler (Dec 30, 2009)

southern homegrower said:


> DaGambler, After I got the pressure up on my well pump the ph of my water after the ro system is 5.7 way better then 4.3 like it was when i asked you for help. Just thought i would let you know.


Good to hear. And to toot my own horn, though i still have a lot to learn, i -did- guess that it was a problem with your RO unit. 

May your buds be tasty. 
.


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## southern homegrower (Dec 30, 2009)

Thanks for the help. I never had these problems when i grew outside just had to deal with bugs.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jan 3, 2010)

DG I don't have much time these days but I thought I'd stop by and checkin!

Things are lookin great bro. I bet you are sure happy to have switched to ebb and flow!

 and


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## DaGambler (Jan 3, 2010)

meh...

i'll harvest w/in the next 30 days and be switching over to lava DWC in "MPB" buckets:

Adding to the system:

* (1/3 h.p. chiller, prolly undersized... will do till summer)* 

* (9000 cu. in. per minute air)*



 

*(12 SuperBox totes, but with (2) 5 gal. buckets in each)*

I'm ready to try DWC... me thinks Ebb 'N Flow is the most limiting factor in my garden right now. Hopefully the MPB buckets work like a Cadillac. They combine a drip line, recirculating deep water culture and boat-loads of air blown into each tote.

 - DaGambler
.


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## DaGambler (Jan 5, 2010)

*Holy Crap... every time i get interested in something it turns to shine-ola.*

*Been looking at picking up some T.H.Seeds Heavy Duty Fruity ... then i come across this:*

*"**Public Announcement!

*Unfortunately due to a number of bad reports regarding the quality of thseeds stocks, Cannaseur have decided to cease stocking thseeds as of now. 

I know i was impressed by images of heavy duty fruity when i was first introduced to thseeds, unfortunatelt i have been through 2 packs myself and know of a number of others that have also bought this strain hoping to find plantgs as described on the strain description but no luck.. all i got were uncontrollably stretchy plants taht had very weak stems and terrible yields."

*The internet is double-edged sword.     *
*.*


----------



## Bob Smith (Jan 5, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> meh...
> 
> i'll harvest w/in the next 30 days and be switching over to lava DWC in "MPB" buckets:
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if you're right about E&F being the limiting factor in your garden (I'd be pretty shocked if it was, but anything's possible, I guess), but from someone who's switched to E&F from DWC, I can tell you that I'll never go back.

The root issues, checking multiple reservoirs (which may or may not be an issue with what you're doing, I'm not very familiar with the system pictured), etc., are all issues that I never wanna have to deal with again.

Any specific reason you think that E&F is what's limiting you?


----------



## DaGambler (Jan 5, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Any specific reason you think that E&F is what's limiting you?


it could be my choice of media as much as the hydro setup itself. perlite, i'm finding, is deffinitely not ideal for an ebb 'n flow setup. I only water 3x per week... and the media can still stay too water-logged between waterings. Perhaps i should have tried a pure coco run before changing over to DWC. If DWC doesn't thrill me then maybe i'll fall back to a coco ebb 'n flow.

i've got a pretty one-track mind, so thanks for making me rethink things a little 
.


----------



## Bob Smith (Jan 5, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> it could be my choice of media as much as the hydro setup itself. perlite, i'm finding, is deffinitely not ideal for an ebb 'n flow setup. I only water 3x per week... and the media can still stay too water-logged between waterings. Perhaps i should have tried a pure coco run before changing over to DWC. If DWC doesn't thrill me then maybe i'll fall back to a coco ebb 'n flow.
> 
> i've got a pretty one-track mind, so thanks for making me rethink things a little
> .


I use hydroton, and it works phenomenally - flood every two hours during lights on, and could go to every hour if I wanted to (a "virtual" equivalent of DWC in growth rates/oxygen to the roots, without the nasty side effects like root rot, algae, etc.).

The more often you can/do flood, the better your growth rates, etc - the time after the flood has just subsided (when the roots are in contact with all the water/nutes they want and all the oxygen they want) is when you get the really explosive growth.

If you're only getting that point in time two or three times a week (if that), I agree that a change is in order - that being said, it's a helluva lot cheaper to buy some hydroton and use it then it is to setup a whole DWC system (trust me, look at the first 20 pages of my journal if you wanna see a 16 bucket interconnected DWC failure).

If you're like me then you're gonna do what you want, but I'd highly recommend reconsidering - it's $100 worth of hydroton vs. several hundred, besides the time and effort of putting it together.

Whatever you do, good luck.


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## hairyrabbit (Jan 5, 2010)

good growing man u gna post up the final results up?


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## GypsyBush (Jan 6, 2010)

I like the hydroton too....

I started out with DWC and would prolly never go back....

but that's just me...


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## DaGambler (Jan 6, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> If you're like me then you're gonna do what you want, but I'd highly recommend reconsidering - it's $100 worth of hydroton vs. several hundred, besides the time and effort of putting it together.
> 
> Whatever you do, good luck.


If i were a chick - i would be the easiest slut on the planet, bob. It's like i have no willpower and will do whatever i am told to do !! 

I've already dropped 300 bucks on totes and buckets and another 300 on a 1/3 hp chiller... the buckets i'll use... the 1/3 might come in handy this summer even running ebb 'n flow... the totes would be a bust (already cut holes in all the lids) ...

But I'll try it your way, bob. I will run One More cycle of Ebb 'N Flow, but this time with Lava (which is apparently most comparable to Hygroton). This should allow me to flood multiple times per day as you suggest.

I read ur journal and all the problems you were having with slime (even with apparently good amounts of bubbling action) in the DWC. Yikes. I don't want to have those problems.

I hope ur right, bob. Cross ur fingers for me, 'cuz it's Ur ass on the line.

  
.


----------



## DaGambler (Jan 6, 2010)

hairyrabbit said:


> good growing man u gna post up the final results up?


yessir, yessir, always do. but don't expect to be "Wow'ed". There's a reason i'm looking to make changes to the current system - and they have entirely to do with past yields.

So stay tuned if you want to see a 'Work In Progress' rather than a one-hitter-quitter, 'cuz this is a Perpetual Grow, brotha.

Don't put away the drawing board.
.


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## DaGambler (Jan 6, 2010)

GypsyBush said:


> I like the hydroton too....
> 
> I started out with DWC and would prolly never go back....
> 
> but that's just me...


holy shit, ur alive !!! thought you got ate by a polar bear 

been meaning to stop by ur thread lately. seems you havn't been active in a while (or maybe that's me) ... have to get caught up on ur thread.

 - DaGambler
.


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## MediMary (Jan 6, 2010)

Hey da scoundrel = )
good to see yah sir.. +rep
that funny... 
"I hope ur right, bob. Cross ur fingers for me, 'cuz it's Ur ass on the line."


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## DaGambler (Jan 6, 2010)

Heheh. Thanks for stopping by MediMary... "Gambler, Scoundrel, Ruffian" ... 
That's actually printed on my business card 

Found some nice info on Lava Rocks as a media here (discussion of Lava vs. Hygroton);

http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponics/50491-can-you-use-red-lava-yard-rocks-grow-medium.html

Apparently its not a bad idea... and a few persons even prefer Lava to Hygroton. One things for sure, it's a helluva lot cheaper.
.


----------



## Bob Smith (Jan 6, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> If i were a chick - i would be the easiest slut on the planet, bob. It's like i have no willpower and will do whatever i am told to do !!
> 
> I've already dropped 300 bucks on totes and buckets and another 300 on a 1/3 hp chiller... the buckets i'll use... the 1/3 might come in handy this summer even running ebb 'n flow... the totes would be a bust (already cut holes in all the lids) ...
> 
> ...


Yeah dude, no offense to anyone who uses it, and this will probably rub some people the wrong way, but DWC is for people growing in closets under fluoros, IMHO.

You don't see too many (if any) "real" grows going down with it, and that's because it's a pain in the ass and doesn't scale well.

Have never used lava, but if it's comparable to hydroton, you're golden - I flood every two hours, and will most likely bump it up to every hour when the weather gets a little warmer. 

That's maximum dissolved oxygen (DO) and nutes to the root zone.

As an aside, I'd return that chiller, if you can - using hydroton (or a comparable medium) in E&F doesn't require cool (65ish) water (which by definition holds more DO), because unlike rockwool, perlite, and other mediums which hold more water, the DO in hydroton comes from the air, not from the water itself.

As Lucas says*, when the water recedes, the "fogging" action in the rootzone is where the magic happens, and that's the air (DO) mixing in with the water and the nutes.

* Google "Ask Lucas Cannabis World" for more info - that's one of my favorite threads of all time (if not my favorite).


----------



## FromClone (Jan 6, 2010)

very impressive  keep that shit up!


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## shnkrmn (Jan 6, 2010)

Hey gambler. I started out in DWC. Root rot got me every time. In fact, I just threw a few extra clones into that rig last week and blammo, 5 days later they suck. Throwing it all out. Waiting on an ebb n grow system right now. No more hempy for me.


----------



## DaGambler (Jan 6, 2010)

I never realized how many Anti-DWC people there were... if the last few posts are any indication... a whole barrel of monkeys has come away from DWC with a bad taste in their mouth.

I'll deffinitely hold off for now and just change up the system Via a different media and much more frequent fill/drain cycles. As long as some significant change is taking place - I'm happy to keep experimenting in hopes of a better return.

I just want to hit 1lb per 1k lamp... (7 lbs. per harvest would tickle my fancy quite well enough). If ebb 'n flow can still let me get there, so be it. Still contemplating co2, but the kicker there is that this is a non-A.C. grow just using straight ventilation like in a greenhouse. I guess you can toggle the co2 and the exhaust via a timer or controls and such... but i've pulled a 1lb per 1k w/o co2, damn't, so hopefully i can get there again w/o having to introduce co2 !!  
.


----------



## southern homegrower (Jan 6, 2010)

i am new to dwc have only done 4 grows i use the same totes you are using 6 plants in each tote and get about a 1/2 plb per tote. i have not had any root rot problems yet . i had to paint the yellow lid because the 1000w light was getting through it. if i only put 1 or 2 plants in the tote i get 7 to 8 oz per plant. im not sure but i think that tote being black stops the slime build up in the tote. i have no slime in my totes after a 4 month grow and i have no chiller


----------



## DaGambler (Jan 7, 2010)

you should throw up a journal man. i'd like to see ur setup. the link in your sig just goes to a blank page... i've clicked it a couple different times on different occassions now.
.


----------



## shnkrmn (Jan 7, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> you should throw up a journal man. i'd like to see ur setup. the link in your sig just goes to a blank page... i've clicked it a couple different times on different occassions now.
> .



It's not blank gambler, there's a 1x1 pixel gif there. It's probably your dream setup. Although looking through your journal I would say you have frequently changing dreams


----------



## DaGambler (Jan 8, 2010)

I'm afraid i'll have to just keep on dreaming of new ways to do things until i am satisfied with the reality of the harvest at hand.

Still waiting for that to happen.... 
.


----------



## DaGambler (Jan 8, 2010)

"I now have absolute proof that smoking even one marijuana cigarette is equal in brain damage to being on Bikini Island during an H-bomb blast"
~*Ronald Reagan*
"When I was in England, I experimented with marijuana a time or two, and I didnt like it, and I didnt inhale, and I never tried again."
~*Bill Clinton*
"I smoked pot in college and in the Army..."
~*Al Gore*
"So what if it's risky? It's the right thing to do. What we're talking about is 160 people in deep pain. It only affects them."{to George Bush about medical marijuana}
~*Bill Richardson*
"When I was a kid I inhaled frequently. That was the point."
~*Barack Obama
*
"I would absolutely never use the federal government to enforce the law of using marijuana"
~*Ron Paul*
"Pot is not a drug"
~*Arnold Schwarzenegger - Governor of California*
"You bet I did and I enjoyed it." {on whether he has smoked marijuana}
~*Michael Bloomberg - New York City Mayor*
"I think that marijuana should not only be legal, I think it should be a cottage industry. It would be wonderful for the state of Maine. There's some pretty good homegrown dope. I'm sure it would be even better if you could grow it with fertilizers and have greenhouses."
~*Stephen King*
"If we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion by education"
~*Thomas Jefferson*
"When even one American who has done nothing wrong is forced by fear to shut his mind and close his mouth, then all Americans are in peril."
~*Harry S. Truman - Former U.S. President*
"I enjoy smoking cannabis and see no harm in it"
~*Jennifer Aniston*
"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."
~*Biblical - Genesis 1:29*
"Forty million Americans smoked marijuana; the only ones who didn't like it were Judge Ginsberg, Clarence Thomas and Bill Clinton."
~*Jay Leno*
"Make the most of the Indian Hemp Seed and sow it everywhere."
~*George Washington*
"The drug is really quite a remarkably safe one for humans, although it is really quite a dangerous one for mice and they should not use it."
~*J.W.D Henderson Director of the Bureau of Human Drugs, Health and Welfare, Canada*
"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this."
~*Albert Einstein "My First Impression of the U.S.A.", 1921*
"Our youth can not understand why society chooses to criminalize a behavior with so little visible ill effect or adverse social impact... These young people have jumped the fence and found no cliff. And the disrespect for the possession laws fosters a disrespect for laws and the system in general... On top of this is the distinct impression among the youth that some police may use the marihuana laws to arrest people they don't like for other reasons, whether it be their politics, their hair style or their ethnic background." "Federal and state laws (should) be changed to no longer make it a crime to possess marijuana for private use." ; "State laws should make the public use of marijuana a criminal offense punishable by a $100 fine. Under federal law, marijuana smoked in public would merely be subject to seizure."
~*President Richard M. Nixon's National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse "Marihuana: A Signal of Misunderstanding" March 1972*
"Congress should definitely consider decriminalizing possession of marijuana... We should concentrate on prosecuting the rapists and burglars who are a menace to society."
~*Dan Quayle U.S. Representative and Vice president under President Bush March 1977*
"Penalties against possession of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself; and where they are, they should be changed. Nowhere is this more clear than in the laws against possession of marihuana in private for personal use... Therefore, I support legislation amending Federal law to eliminate all Federal criminal penalties for the possession of up to one ounce [28g] of marihuana."
~*Jimmy Carter U.S. President Message to congress 1977*
"The amount of money and of legal energy being given to prosecute hundreds of thousands of Americans who are caught with a few ounces of marijuana [1 ounce = 28g] in their jeans simply makes no sense - the kindest way to put it. A sterner way to put it is that it is an outrage, an imposition on basic civil liberties and on the reasonable expenditure of social energy."
~*William F. Buckley "Legalization of Marijuana Long Overdue" Albuquerque Journal June 8, 1993*
"The greatest service that can be rendered to any country is to add a useful plant to its culture."
~*Thomas Jefferson*
"In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws. But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws."
~*Martin Luther King Jr.*
"How many murders, suicides, robberies, criminal assaults, holdups, burglaries and deeds of maniacal insanity it causes each year, especially among the young, can only be conjectured...No one knows, when he places a marijuana cigarette to his lips, whether he will become a joyous reveller in a musical heaven, a mad insensate, a calm philosopher, or a murderer..."
~*HARRY J ANSLINGER Commissioner of the US Bureau of Narcotics 1930-1962*
"...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana is its effect on the degenerate races."
~*Harry J. Anslinger*
"Marijuana is an addictive drug which produces in its users insanity, criminality, and death."
~*Harry J. Anslinger*
"Reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men."
~*Harry J. Anslinger*
"You smoke a joint and you're likely to kill your brother."
~*Harry J. Anslinger*
"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others."
~*Harry Anslinger, 1937 testimony to Congress in support of the Marijuana Tax Act.*
~If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny."
~*Thomas Jefferson*
''We did not view marijuana as a significant health problem--as it was not....Nobody dies from marijuana. Marijuana smoking, in fact, if one wants to be honest, is a source of pleasure and amusement to countless millions of people in America, and it continues to be that way.''
~*Peter Bourne, President Carter's Drug Czar {Source: PBS's Frontline: ''Drug Wars,'' October 2000}*
"The commission has come to the conclusion that the moderate use of hemp drugs is practically attended by no evil results at all. ... ...moderate use of hemp... appears to cause no appreciable physical injury of any kind,... no injurious effects on the mind... [and] no moral injury whatever."
~*Indian Hemp Drugs Commission, 1894*
"Having reviewed all the material available to us we find ourselves in agreement with the conclusion reached by the Indian Hemp Drugs Commission appointed by the Government of India (1893-94) and the New York Mayor's Committee (1944 - LaGuardia)that the long-term consumption of cannabis in moderate doses has no harmful effects" "the long-asserted dangers of cannabis are exaggerated and that the related law is socially damaging, if not unworkable"
~*1968 UK ROYAL COMMISSION, THE WOOTTON REPORT*
"Cannabis is remarkably safe. Although not harmless, it is surely less toxic than most of the conventional medicines it could replace if it were legally available. Despite its use by millions of people over thousands of years, cannabis has never caused an overdose death."
~*Testimony of Professor Lester Grinspoon, M.D., Associate Professor of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School, before the Crime Subcommittee of the Judiciary Committee, U.S. House of Representatives, Washington, D.C., October 1, 1997*
"Marijuana is beneficial to many patients"
~*Jocelyn Elders, USA Surgeon General*
"The major health and psychological effects of chronic cannabis use, especially daily use over many years, remain uncertain"
~*The Report of the Australian Government 1996*
"There are no long lasting ill-effects from the acute use of marijuana and no fatalities have ever been recorded ... there seems to be growing agreement within the medical community, at least, that marijuana does not directly cause criminal behaviour, juvenile delinquency, sexual excitement, or addiction."
~*Dr J. H. Jaffe, The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics. L.Goodman and A Gillman, 3rd edn. 1965*
"... as a multipurpose plant, ganga is used medicinally, even by non-smokers. ....There were no indications of organic brain damage or chromosome damage among smokers and no significant clinical psychiatric, psychological or medical) differences between smokers and controls."
~*US Jamaican Study 1974*
The U.S. federal government has failed to make public its own 1994 study that undercuts its position that marijuana is carcinogenic - a $2 million study by the National Toxicology Program. The program's deputy director, John Bucher, says the study "found absolutely no evidence of cancer." In fact, animals that received THC had fewer cancers. Bucher denies his agency had been pressured to shelve the report, saying the delay in making it public was due to a personnel shortage.

The Boston Globe reported Thursday (1-30-97) that the study indicates not only that the main ingredient in marijuana, THC, does not cause cancer, but also that it may even protect against malignancies, laboratory tests on animals show.

The report comes on the heels of an editorial in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine that favors the controlled medical use of marijuana, and calls current federal policy "misguided, heavy-handed and inhumane."

The Clinton administration has said that doctors prescribing marijuana could be prosecuted for a federal crime.

Marijuana has been reported to ease the pain, nausea and vomiting in advanced stages of cancer, AIDS and other serious illnesses, but the federal government claims other treatments have been deemed safer than what it calls "a psychoactive, burning carcinogen."

However, The Boston Globe says the government's claim appears to be undercut by its own $2 million study.
~*BOSTON, Jan. 30, 1997 (UPI)*
"Users in our matched-pair sample smoked marijuana in addition to as many tobacco cigarettes as did their matched non-using pairs. Yet their small airways were, if anything, a bit healthier than their matches. We must tentatively conclude either that marijuana has no harmful effect on such passages or that it actually offers some slight protection against harmful effects of tobacco smoke"
~*Cannabis in Costa Rica: A Study of Chronic Marijuana Use; Institute of Human Issues*
"The use of marijuana does not lead to morphine or heroin or cocaine addiction and no effort is made to create a market for these narcotics by stimulating the practice of marijuana smoking"
~*The LaGardia sub-committee of New York 1944*
"Most marijuana users do not go on to use other drugs."
*~"Marijuana: Facts for Teens." U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Washington, D.C. 1995, p.10.*
"Simulated driving scores for subjects experiencing a normal social "high" and the same subjects under control conditions are not significantly different. However, there are significantly more errors for alcohol intoxicated than for control subjects"
~*Crancer Study, Washington Department of Motor Vehicles*
"THC's adverse effects on driving performance appear relatively small"
~*U.S. Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (DOT HS 808 07, Final Report, November 1993*
"Compared to alcohol, which makers people take more risks on the road, marijuana made drivers slow down and drive more carefully.... Cannabis is good for driving skills, as people tend to overcompensate for a perceived impairment."
~*Professor Olaf Drummer, a forensic scientist the Royal College of Surgeons in Melbourne in 1996*
"Medicines often produce side effects. Sometimes they are physically unpleasant. Cannabis too has discomforting side effects, but these are not physical they are political"
~*The Economist March 28th 1992*
"I'm quite impressed by what's happened to (MS) patients who have used it"
~*Dr. James Malone-Lee, consultant St. Pancras Hospital, London*
"Measurements and main results. Exposed and nonexposed neonates were compared at 3 days and 1 month old, using the Brazelton Neonatal Assessment Scale, including supplementary items to capture possible subtle effects. There were no significant differences between exposed and nonexposed neonates on day 3. At 1 month, the exposed neonates showed better physiological stability and required less examiner facilitation to reach organized states. The neonates of heavy- marijuana-using mothers had better scores on autonomic stability, quality of alertness, irritability, and self-regulation and were judged to be more rewarding for caregivers."
~*Prenatal Marijuana Exposure and Neonatal Outcomes in Jamaica: An Ethnographic Study Melanie C. Dreher, PhD; Kevin Nugent, PhD; and Rebekah Hudgins, MA*
"Penalties against possession of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself"
~*President Jimmy Carter*
"Cannabis never killed anybody and it's use is widespread. You can"t stop it. The law defeats itself because all the efforts to stop drugs coming in only drives up the prices and then gangsters move in to push the drugs. If they legalised there wouldn't be gangsters and huge profits...The police are gradually decriminalising the possession of cannabis because they realise there's not much point prosecuting"
~*Judge James Pickles, UK*
"Prohibition... goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control mans' appetite through legislation and makes a crime out of things that are not even crimes... A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our Government was founded"
~*President Abraham Lincoln (December 1840)*
''From the Colombian point of view legalization is the easy solution. I mean, just legalize it and we won't have any more problems. Probably in five years we wouldn't even have guerrillas. No problems. We would have a great country with no problems.''
*~Jaime Ruiz, Senior Adviser to the Colombian President {Source: Ottawa Citizen, September 6, 2000}*
''I say legalize drugs because I want to see less drug abuse, not more. And I say legalize drugs because I want to see the criminals put out of business.''
~*Edward Ellison, former Head of Scotland Yard's Antidrug Squad {Source: London's Daily Mail, March 10, 1998}*
"I am here because I am the first judge in this country to say, in 1990, that the war on drugs was racist. It still is and that hasn't changed"
*~Judge Pamela Alexander at the DPF Conference, November 1996*
"I, as a responsible adult human being, will never concede the power to anyone to regulate my choice of what I put into my body, or where I go with my mind. From the skin inwards is my jurisdiction, is it not? I choose what may or may not cross that border. Here I am the Customs Agent. I am the Coast guard. I am the sole legal and spiritual government of this territory, and only the laws I choose to enact within myself are applicable"
~*Alexander Shulgin, PhD, Chemist and author, at the DPF Conference, November 1996
*
"I support decriminalisation. People are smoking pot anyway and to make them into criminals is wrong. It's when you're in jail you really become a criminal."
~*Sir Paul McCartney, Independent on Sunday, 28th September 1997*
"It is certainly no longer true to say if it ever was, that smoking cannabis is a sign of affiliation to an "alternative" lifestyle. Clearly, in the light of its popularity and to a degree its apparent social acceptability questions are raised about the legalisation of cannabis"
~*The Misuse of Drugs, Office of Health Economics*
From: Outside View: Let science decide about pot
By Paul Armentano (NORML)

Currently more than 30 percent of the U.S. population lives in a place where some type of marijuana decriminalization is the law. According to the federal government, this policy "has had virtually no effect on either the marijuana use or on the related attitudes and beliefs about marijuana use among young people."

Since the 1970s, more than a dozen government-appointed committees -- in the United States, Britain, Canada and Australia as well as in other countries -- have issued recommendations regarding marijuana policy. These include the Shafer Commission, appointed by former President Richard Nixon, Canada's Le Dain Commission, and Britain's Wooten Report, all of which concluded that marijuana prohibition causes far more social damage than marijuana use, and the possession of marijuana for personal use should no longer be a criminal offense.

The passage of time has done little to sway the minds of these nonpartisan experts. Consider the conclusions of the Wooten Report, originally issued in 1968: "In considering the scale of penalties, our main aim, having regard to our view of the known effects of cannabis, is to remove for practical purposes, the prospect of imprisonment for possession of a small amount and to demonstrate that taking the drug in moderation is a relatively minor offense."

Parallel those findings with the recent recommendations of the conservative British Police Foundation, which in a 2001 report concluded: "The law's implementation damages individuals in terms of criminal records and risks to jobs and relationships to a degree that far outweighs any harm that cannabis may be doing to a society. Prison should no longer be a penalty for possession." The millennium may be different, but their analysis remains the same.

Scientific inquiries on this side of the Atlantic have yielded equally consistent results. In 1972, Nixon's handpicked Shafer Commission recommended Congress remove criminal penalties for the possession of marijuana for personal use as well as on the "casual distribution of small amounts of marijuana."

Ten years later, researchers at the U.S. National Research Council, a division of the National Academy of Sciences, reaffirmed that prohibition was ineffective and should be "seriously reconsidered." Most recently, a special Canadian House of Lords committee concluded, "The consequences of conviction for possession of a small amount of cannabis for personal use are disproportionate to the potential harm associated with that behavior."
~*Source THC*
"It really puzzles me to see Marijuana connected with Narcotics - Dope and all that crapit's a thousand times better than whiskey - it's an Assistant - a friend."
~*Louis Armstrong
*
"We shall, by and by, want a world of hemp more for our own consumption."
*~John Adams

*
"The greatest service which can be rendered any country is the add a useful plant to its culture!"
*~Thomas Jefferson
*
One of the problems that the marijuana reform movement consistently faces is that everyone wants to talk about what marijuana does, but no one ever wants to look at what marijuana prohibition does.

Marijuana never kicks down your door in the middle of the night.
Marijuana never locks up sick and dying people.
Marijuana does not suppress medical research.
Marijuana does not peek in bedroom windows.

Even if one takes every reefer madness allegation of the prohibitionists at face value, marijuana prohibition has done far more harm to far more people than marijuana ever could.
~*Richard Cowan, Former head of NORML*, Now editor of *http://www.marijuananews.com/*
"*Marijuana in its natural form* is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man."
*~DEA's Administrative Law Judge, Francis Young. Source: US Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Agency, "In the Matter of Marijuana Rescheduling Petition," [Docket #86-22], (September 6, 198, p. 57.
*
"I do not believe that the federal government should treat adults who choose to smoke marijuana as criminals," Frank said in a statement, adding that it's "not appropriate in a free society."*
~Rep. Barney Frank*
*.*


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## southern homegrower (Jan 8, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> you should throw up a journal man. i'd like to see ur setup. the link in your sig just goes to a blank page... i've clicked it a couple different times on different occassions now.
> .


Sorry man, I have been locked up before and just dont feel comfortable putting pics of my grow up. I know, it sounds stupid.


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## BooMeR242 (Jan 8, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> "I now have absolute proof that smoking even one marijuana cigarette is equal in brain damage to being on Bikini Island during an H-bomb blast"
> ~*Ronald Reagan*
> "When I was in England, I experimented with marijuana a time or two, and I didnt like it, and I didnt inhale, and I never tried again."
> ~*Bill Clinton*
> ...



thats sum good shit man im keeping a copy. props to whoever put it all together


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## slipperyP (Jan 9, 2010)

Hey bud...hows the gamble been coming along...the vid is inspirational....

IVe been away from RUI for awile....Im trying to catch up now. On you current video....did you fim the tops before bud?

Nice quotes btw....and *HARRY J ANSLINGER if your old crusty ass is around FUCK OFF .*


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## DubsFan (Jan 9, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> I never realized how many Anti-DWC people there were... if the last few posts are any indication... a whole barrel of monkeys has come away from DWC with a bad taste in their mouth.
> 
> I'll deffinitely hold off for now and just change up the system Via a different media and much more frequent fill/drain cycles. As long as some significant change is taking place - I'm happy to keep experimenting in hopes of a better return.
> 
> ...


You should easily be able to hit 1p per 1k watts dude. I know absolutely nothing about DWC but have seen many grows with Hydroton and RW achieve these numbers with modest efforts.

My first grow is in my avi. 10 white widows under 2k watts. RW slabs. I don't think I'll hit 2p's but maybe 1.5. It's my first hydro grow.

I firmly believe in higher plant counts. SOG is fantastic. My next grow is going to be about 70 plants in a 4x8 tray. You should be able to hit a half an O per plant. Many people are running over 100 plants in the same tray and hitting a half an O or more per. Do the math. You are entering the world of 1g per watt. 

4p's in one tray sounds nice to me. I needed to knock down my first grow before I did anything exciting. I want to make sure I can produce good herb first. Yield will be my next goal...of course quality is a factor too but I think I've got that close to dialed.


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## DaGambler (Jan 9, 2010)

sounds good man... ya i deffinitely should be able to hit 1lb. per 1k... 

just testament to how badly you can screw things up when you try to come up with your own system. do you see anyone else doing a perlite ebb 'n flow ? maybe one guy. not many. i'm sure there is a reason for that.

but it seems that i always have to make a mistake like 3x before i'm capable of learning from it !! no joke, its very sad. I use Dip 'N Grow to root clones - a solution that you dip clones in for like 3-5 seconds before placing them in the media. Over the past few years on at least 3 separate occasions i've decided that it would be a "good idea" to dump the leftover in the clone rez after doing cloning: everytime, to the same effect. It stunts the clones growth completely. I stunted the last clones for about 3 weeks before they rooted  i believe that was the 3rd time i've done that... so maybe this time i'll remember not to do it anymore !!

  
.


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## DubsFan (Jan 9, 2010)

If you want to get really good at something just copy somebody that does what you want to do very well. I did with my set up. My strains are different and my friends aren't physically as close as they used to be because I'm in San Diego and they are up North. So I knew I would have some struggle with my first hydro grow.

I like the RW because it's gone after each harvest. I dry mine outside and mulch it through the chipper or put it in the compost bin. All that is left is the plastic. Washing or getting rid of all those hydroton rocks seems like a lot of work. But everyone does what they are comfortable with.


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## DaGambler (Jan 9, 2010)

slipperyP said:


> Hey bud...hows the gamble been coming along... ...did you fim the tops before bud?


I'm afraid i'm still only breaking even in this game. The game of life. With this economy and shit i really don't understand how people even make it sometimes. 2/3 the population living paycheck to paycheck. They say 1 in 5 american children went to be hungry last night and will go to bed hungry again tonight. And there's places a whole lot poorer than america.

Hopefully one of these days i'll get a better toss of the dice. My plants always get topped - multiple times unless they are a pure indica, then just once.
.


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 9, 2010)

tried to warn you bout the perlite.......


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## DaGambler (Jan 9, 2010)

theloadeddragon said:


> tried to warn you bout the perlite.......


heh heh heh. sounds about right. live and learn.
.


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## 400Whps (Jan 9, 2010)

nice, was reading back....it was hard to find your thread..lol atleast for me.
things looking good, nice quotes they really show how ignorant some people were/are.
sorry to hear about the issues,im sure you'll atleast do decently.
you can be a dink and say it's exotics,charge more...lol 
i know a guy that does this with his popcorn buds,he's an asshole i went to school with....
PEACE man,thanks for sharing this


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## OregonMeds (Jan 10, 2010)

The people bashing dwc have no idea what the system you're talking about is capable of though...


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## shnkrmn (Jan 10, 2010)

OregonMeds said:


> The people bashing dwc have no idea what the system you're talking about is capable of though...


*Insert flame here*

""


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## Bob Smith (Jan 10, 2010)

OregonMeds said:


> The people bashing dwc have no idea what the system you're talking about is capable of though...


I'm sure it can yield 5 pounds per watt if you do it right ; my point is that a dialed in E&F grow in a non-absorbent media (hydroton) is every bit the equal of a DWC system, with 1/10 the work and 1/10 the issues that can arise.

That is from my own experiences and observations, so that is simply my opinion.


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## OregonMeds (Jan 10, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> *Insert flame here*
> 
> ""


It wasn't a flame. Do you know anything about the system, do you know what a krusty bucket is, do you know they're flipping 5lb trees as fast as a zero veg sog? Have you tried high water flow dwc yourself? Do you know this system beat the pants off krusty bucket records but runs without the krusty trouble and is actually so easy beginners are pulling those pro results with it? All the good, none of the bad you have been talking about.



Most people have a lot of assumptions I just wonder if they understand even the basics of that system that are less than obvious.

Thinking of that system like any other dwc tree grow is kind of like calling a Ferrari just another car.

If I'm wrong and you guys did know all this my apologies, but I get the feeling you all don't quite get it yet that it's just not your typical dwc.

However I agree there is always more than one way to skin a cat. It's hard to beat an ebb an flow sog for high production and easy.


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## shnkrmn (Jan 10, 2010)

I've read Double-D's thread. I also know what a Krusty bucket is. If you knew me, you'd know I do lots of research. I don't like being called (or lumped as) ignorant. Your post below reinforces the assumption you've made that I am not informed on the topic at hand. I made a comment on my personal experience with plain old DWC. You decided to demonstrate your greater knowledge and that's cool, but not at my expense.

Sorry to snark in your journal gambler, you know how mild-mannered I usually am.



OregonMeds said:


> It wasn't a flame. Do you know anything about the system, do you know what a krusty bucket is, do you know they're flipping 5lb trees as fast as a zero veg sog? Have you tried high water flow dwc yourself? Do you know this system beat the pants off krusty bucket records but runs without the krusty trouble and is actually so easy beginners are pulling those pro results with it? All the good, none of the bad you have been talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## OregonMeds (Jan 10, 2010)

I wasn't meaning for it to come across the way I now see it does. I meant to just ask the questions without the attitude between the lines and you answered them.
I told him it may not be worth the switch before anyone else, but he assured me he needed better than what he's had going on. I just wanted to make sure his plans weren't being crapped on when compared to standalone dwc performance. The issue of root rot or changing multiple reservoirs was mentioned by someone above and that just doesn't really apply here. He bought the stuff and had a good plan, and I felt bad for the guy when it looked like his dream just got shit on. Wanted to make sure you had all the facts is all and clear up what wasn't fair.

Sorry.


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## shnkrmn (Jan 10, 2010)

Apology accepted.

I'm gonna post now like gambler isn't here and will never read this (he will). I was disappointed he didn't give ebb and flow a fair shake. He started out in hempy and realized the scale he wanted wasn't there. That's where I'm at right now, too. He made a good run at E&F (God knows he has energy to burn) but didn't get to his goal out of THAT, but, as has been said, dialed in it's a great yielder. I personally would have stuck with that for a few more cycles, changing media and containers and stuff to make it work better, not fling it aside and go for a new and not very widely known method. Even if some newbies are pulling huge weight out of it, it's a system with a steep learning curve and built-in mistakes to make. Plus a considerable downstroke on startup.

Like you said, meds, he is well into it now, nowhere to go but forward. I never meant to stomp on it. Personally, I'm hoping to see a monster tree grow. gambler deserves it just on the grounds that he's worked so hard and he's a hella nice guy


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## DaGambler (Jan 10, 2010)

thanks guys.  i think ur hearts are in the right places 

que sera, sera. What will be, will be. There's always next time. May end up running 1/2 ebb 'n flow vs. 1/2 "mpb style" dwc soon enough. Just leave me my freedom and i'll keep trying until something works right, or right enough, damn't
  
.


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## 400Whps (Jan 10, 2010)

good things!will the next one be available to our eyes?
thanks again, +rep PEACE!


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## Bob Smith (Jan 11, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Apology accepted.
> 
> I'm gonna post now like gambler isn't here and will never read this (he will). I was disappointed he didn't give ebb and flow a fair shake. He started out in hempy and realized the scale he wanted wasn't there. That's where I'm at right now, too. He made a good run at E&F (God knows he has energy to burn) but didn't get to his goal out of THAT, but, as has been said, dialed in it's a great yielder. I personally would have stuck with that for a few more cycles, changing media and containers and stuff to make it work better, not fling it aside and go for a new and not very widely known method. Even if some newbies are pulling huge weight out of it, it's a system with a steep learning curve and built-in mistakes to make. Plus a considerable downstroke on startup.
> 
> Like you said, meds, he is well into it now, nowhere to go but forward. I never meant to stomp on it. Personally, I'm hoping to see a monster tree grow. gambler deserves it just on the grounds that he's worked so hard and he's a hella nice guy


Oregon, I took no offense and I am one of the "ignorant" (that word has a negative connotation, but it's correct to describe my knowledge of the system you're discussing).

That being said, it's my thorough belief that horizontal systems are, by and large, fairly interchangeable with each other (DWC=aero=E&F, with <5% differences at most between them, assuming all else equal).

Now going off of that premise (which may or may not be correct, but I believe it is), I think it makes much, much, much more sense to stick with one of those systems until dialed in, rather then change to a new/gimmicky system which may or may not work, and for which there are not many people who are knowledgeable and able to be queried about issues.

You say noobs are pulling massive weight off of this system, but think about it - would a noob really know how to construct a system like this, let alone grow well in it? Without knowing anything about it, sounds more like a noob has offered up floor space to a vet, the vet builds the system, helps the noob monitor it and grow, and then voila, a noob has "pulled massive yields".

Long story short (too late for that), whatever issues he's having with getting the yields he wants isn't gonna be fixed by installing a new system - he needs to iron that out first, IMO.

I honestly think that switching to hydroton will increase his yield by >25% right off the bat.

Do something else and get +10%, etc., and then you're rocking and rolling with a simple, repeatable system.


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## OregonMeds (Jan 11, 2010)

Not horizontal bro..







Whatever you do I don't suggest doing half and half like you said or this with horizontal lights, just for the record. There would be no point really you'd never get a fair comparison.


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## Bob Smith (Jan 11, 2010)

OregonMeds said:


> Not horizontal bro..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, gotcha..............so this is the 44lbs. off of ten 1K system, or some numbers to that effect?

If so, I saw a post (forget where, because I'm a stoner) where someone pretty thoroughly poked some serious holes in it; regardless, it seems kinda cool, but again, I'd figure out my horizontal issues first before switching up to an aggressive vertical system.

Just me, but everyone's different.


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## wonderblunder (Jan 12, 2010)

I love those pics. 

I have been looking at the MPB buckets, they look sweet. Doubles look real heavy duty.....


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## OregonMeds (Jan 13, 2010)

I'm setting up a small 4 plant grow with them. We'll see how it goes... 

It's not really a new or untested method of growing, it's just a combination of all the best of every style. The same method was used before with 5 gallon buckets and a larger air pump, but dd replaced the extra air with more water flow and more root space. Root space limits plant size, simple as that. This runs as much drip and aeroponic as it does dwc and to a degree NFT as well. The aero aspect comes from the way the pond size pump spits water up above the relatively low water line and all over the inside of the tubs, the NFT is the water movement from the pumps and the low water level in the bin, the drip is obvious just to start them (some would call it bubbleponics) which is turned off after they start and of course it's sort of dwc too.

Sweet sweet mix, can't resist trying it... And with it all connected to a chiller root rot and funk and whatever shouldn't be too much of an issue, just have to maintain the ideal water temp and not contaminate the system and flush once and follow all the directions. Fingers crossed...

It is by no means for everyone though, and there's a lot that can go wrong.


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## Chong89 (Jan 14, 2010)

Too bad you didn't hit your target Gambler but I'm certain you will.

Here's an interesting read for the adventurous among

http://www.fullmeltbubble.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416

Good luck next round...


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## southern homegrower (Jan 14, 2010)

Chong89 said:


> Too bad you didn't hit your target Gambler but I'm certain you will.
> 
> Here's an interesting read for the adventurous among
> 
> ...


damn man that was cool


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## OregonMeds (Jan 14, 2010)

Rotary is nice, but it's just not a legal option for most people. Tree grows like this allow us medical patients to stay legal within our small limited plant counts and still yield big numbers.


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## Bob Smith (Jan 14, 2010)

OregonMeds said:


> Rotary is nice, but it's just not a legal option for most people. Tree grows like this allow us medical patients to stay legal within our small limited plant counts and still yield big numbers.


Agreed, and the % increase in efficiency doesn't make up for the added headaches, IMO.

Although a rotary SCROG/FIM type deal with low plant numbers and high cola numbers could be kinda interesting.


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## Chong89 (Jan 14, 2010)

OregonMeds said:


> Rotary is nice, but it's just not a legal option for most people. Tree grows like this allow us medical patients to stay legal within our small limited plant counts and still yield big numbers.


Yeah...The whole unit looks intimidating and full of unnecessary problems for a simple guy like myself. Cool to look and read about but in reality I'm certain there's many a problem associated with rotory units.


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## Chong89 (Jan 14, 2010)

Gambler...If it's proper grow journal etiquette I'd like to ask a couple questions.

1] I think I've read every post on this thread but don't recall seeing you state what you thought of the G-13. I'm primarily concerned about the potency/high but growth characteristics are important as well. [Ease/speed of growth.]

2] I read you used an ozone generator for odor. Did that eliminate ALL the odor from your room by itself or did you need carbon filters as a supplement?


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## DaGambler (Jan 15, 2010)

Chong89 said:


> 1] I think I've read every post on this thread but don't recall seeing you state what you thought of the G-13. I'm primarily concerned about the potency/high but growth characteristics are important as well. [Ease/speed of growth.]


Happy to answer any and all questions, bro. Even if i have to just make up an answer 

Sensi's G13 x Hash Plant: Takes about 9 full weeks to flower... slow to put on 'hair' at first... but then picks up after a couple of weeks... Yields well. Excellent medicinal value. (Pure indica with somewhere around 20% t.h.c., possibly more.) Takes a few minutes for the full effects to start hitting (unlike sativas). Very long lasting high. (4-5 hours or so.) Can yellow a bit when cloning if everything isn't ideal, but it pulls through well enough - the percentage of survivors no less than other clone stock. Columnar growth pattern... leans heavily toward a single top heavy cola. My only complaint: a real pain in the ass to manicure (this) pure indica; can be quite leafy. A very meditative high. My favorite smoke. Such a pain to manicure however that i am trying to shift toward growing only hybrids of this plant with some of the other genetics that i have going. Uses lots of nutes, comparitively speaking. Will not burn easily (nutes), but will stall in growth if things aren't right. A bit more susceptible to mold problems than some varieties so keeping humidity in check late in flower is very important.



Chong89 said:


> 2] I read you used an ozone generator for odor. Did that eliminate ALL the odor from your room by itself or did you need carbon filters as a supplement?


Funny you ask. I was thinking just today about how i need to add a good carbon filter to the main room exhaust... and a couple smaller ones to the ducted lights (which also pull directly from the room - seasonally). Ozone generators work very well... but not continuously. Using both would be more ideal. Ozone even extends the life of the carbon i hear. Better safe than sorry.
.


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## DaGambler (Jan 15, 2010)

*




*

*The first pic is some Durban Poison i'm currently harvesting.*

*




*

*The second pic is Sensi's G13 x Hash Plant (Mr. Nice). The blue spray paint indicates some stretching mid-flower. I waited for the plants to "tell me" they were hungry before doing a rez change (note to lazy self: rez change every 2 weeks. period.) the durban actually started to show Calcium deficiency ... followed by nute burn as i jacked them with some 1400 ppm at rez changeover. the White Russian and Mr. Nice never showed deficiencies ... they just stalled in growth. When this happens in flower its almost like you trip a 'suicide switch'... the plants can't get what they need so they try to 'finish' as quickly as possible. Intentionally left the lights on for about 3 days straight when i realized they were stalled out from nute deficiencies. This isn't ideal, by any stretch. But it seemed to help to restart the flowering process on those two varieties. Durban was too far along to be affected by the light disruption. So far (knock on finger-crossed wood) i've been very happy with the yield from the durbans. I've got 24 of those and am deffinitely getting more than 2 oz. average at this point. If the other two varieties yielded as well (also 24 plants total) i'd at least pull 96 oz. For me, without co2, i could live with that. I still don't know what i'll avg. on those other two varieties... but it gives me hope that i might eventually see the yields i would like after switching to a different media a couple of weeks from now.*

*   - DaGambler*
*.*


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## Bob Smith (Jan 15, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> Funny you ask. I was thinking just today about how i need to add a good carbon filter to the main room exhaust... and a couple smaller ones to the ducted lights (which also pull directly from the room - seasonally). Ozone generators work very well... but not continuously. Using both would be more ideal. Ozone even extends the life of the carbon i hear. Better safe than sorry.
> .


Yeah, I just had to order the CAP 5500 ozone yesterday, after having bought the Ozn Jr. about a month ago - can't be too careful when it comes to odor.



> *I waited for the plants to "tell me" they were hungry before doing a rez change (note to lazy self: rez change every 2 weeks. period.)*


Lol, been there, done that - haven't changed my res since the first week of November, and I'm never doing this again.

Two weeks religiously from here on out.


----------



## Chong89 (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks for the detailed response. To my knowledge I've never had G13 or any hybrid thereof. Under unbelieveable circumstances I just met a dude with 40 of ''The Best'' strains available. I got some clones of my favorites including every strain under the ''White family'', Northern LightsNYC Deisel, Jack Herer, Durban and Ice. G13 is on the list of available strains along with some other legendary strains. Originally I intended to chose only one between Juicy Fruit and G13 but I think I'm going to go with both.

I have to stop reading this thread, watching your videos and stop asking questions....You're a bad influence on me! Initially I was content starting a little closet with 1-4 plants using a little 400 watt HPS. That was a month or so ago. Today I have 2x1000watt digital HPS's ,a 400 halide and am ready to set up a 10'x10' room and now use the 400 HPS as a night light! 

I actually thought I was going to do something with a 400. The instant I turned the one 1000 watter on I was sold on the 1000's and will not even consider trying a 400. I had the one light on and inside of 4 hours the buds had almost doubled in size! I just threw a bag seed grow together just to see what would happen indoors. I'm now in about the 6th week of flower with thumbnail-sized colas. Had I used a 1000 from the start I'd probably be done by now with 4x the yield.


----------



## BooMeR242 (Jan 15, 2010)

ladies lookin very hairy with pistils DG. u thinkin of adding c02 ur next round as well as a medium change? u mentioned ud be happy with this big of a yield and not even using c02. jw


----------



## theloadeddragon (Jan 15, 2010)

Medium Change .

Where yah headed now?

Not DWC I hope,  ..... lol  .... Im just playing bro. If you have the time and money, I think DWC COULD work for you fairly well. But I think if you might go some other routes, and execute one of the most sacred of growing principles, Patients Pays , you would be even more greatly rewarded . Have you thought of Coco?


----------



## Bob Smith (Jan 15, 2010)

theloadeddragon said:


> Medium Change .
> 
> Where yah headed now?
> 
> Not DWC I hope,  ..... lol  .... Im just playing bro. If you have the time and money, I think DWC COULD work for you fairly well. But I think if you might go some other routes, and execute one of the most sacred of growing principles, Patients Pays , you would be even more greatly rewarded . Have you thought of Coco?


I'm trying to beat him over the head with hydroton - for how shitty his medium is right now (perlite in an E&F that's only getting watered once or twice a week), flooding hydroton in E&F 6 or 7 times a day will increase his yield substantially.


----------



## Chong89 (Jan 15, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> I'm trying to beat him over the head with hydroton - for how shitty his medium is right now (perlite in an E&F that's only getting watered once or twice a week), flooding hydroton in E&F 6 or 7 times a day will increase his yield substantially.


Hey Bob.

You're mostly convinced that multiple waterings/feeding a day drastically increases yield, eh? I'm doing Hempy Pots now and plan to experiment extensively. I had intended to go with two small aeroponic Rubbermaids [Same principal design as shown in the See More Buds videos.] but am becoming increasingly more interested in a flood and drain set-up.

Thing is I've never really looked at an E&F system. I could build one I'm sure but don't understand how they return the water/nutrients back to the reservoir. The flow coming from the tank has to be pushed via a pump. Is there a second pump at the end of the pots that returns it to the reservoir?

If multiple feedings _does _incease yield significantly I'll build a simple 4'x4' table where the water would return to the reservoir via gravity to a reservoir under the table.

You seem to be knowledgeable enough for me to begin construction within the next 5 minutes...


----------



## Bob Smith (Jan 15, 2010)

Chong89 said:


> Hey Bob.
> 
> You're mostly convinced that multiple waterings/feeding a day drastically increases yield, eh? I'm doing Hempy Pots now and plan to experiment extensively. I had intended to go with two small aeroponic Rubbermaids [Same principal design as shown in the See More Buds videos.] but am becoming increasingly more interested in a flood and drain set-up.
> 
> ...


No, feeding more times a day will not necessarily increase yield, but going from (basically) a soil system that he has now (two feedings a week) to an active hydro system ( multiple feedings per day) will certainly increase his yield substantially.

See post #815 in this thread for more details, but the more you can flood, the better.

And as far as the second pump, yes we do need it, but it's the best pump ever - we call it "gravity" 

Never overheats, clogs, or trips a breaker


----------



## Chong89 (Jan 15, 2010)

I must be missing something in regards to a gravity fed return line. [For Myself] I'm picturing a homemade system with say 6, 5 gallon growing pots attached to a reservoir [a plastic 55 gallon drum.] If it were I, I'd have the pots at ground level as well as the reservoir. A 1/2''-3/4'' line would attach everything.

Now, your pump [in or around the reservoir] would initiate the flooding. With that one pump you'd be fine until you got to the end of the line. If both the pots and reservoir are at ground level I see it as impossible for gravity to pull water back into the reservoir. Do you elevate the grow pots?

This is definitely something I'll try in the future, thanks for taking the time to answer up to this point.


----------



## DaGambler (Jan 16, 2010)

Chong89 said:


> ... and am ready to set up a 10'x10' room and now use the 400 HPS as a night light! .


HAHAHA, that's some funny stuff. 

(EDIT: but, seriously, throw that lil bastard into the mix. all things considered, more lumens hardly ever hurt matters.)
.


----------



## DaGambler (Jan 16, 2010)

BooMeR242 said:


> ladies lookin very hairy with pistils DG. u thinkin of adding c02 ur next round as well as a medium change? u mentioned ud be happy with this big of a yield and not even using c02. jw


I like to make just one change at a time... i like to know why things are happening, if possible. So if i add co2 it won't be until i run a lava ebb 'n flow once without it.
.


----------



## guitarzan420 (Jan 16, 2010)

Chong89 said:


> I must be missing something in regards to a gravity fed return line. [For Myself] I'm picturing a homemade system with say 6, 5 gallon growing pots attached to a reservoir [a plastic 55 gallon drum.] If it were I, I'd have the pots at ground level as well as the reservoir. A 1/2''-3/4'' line would attach everything.
> 
> Now, your pump [in or around the reservoir] would initiate the flooding. With that one pump you'd be fine until you got to the end of the line. If both the pots and reservoir are at ground level I see it as impossible for gravity to pull water back into the reservoir. Do you elevate the grow pots?
> 
> This is definitely something I'll try in the future, thanks for taking the time to answer up to this point.


I think he's talking about e&f tables. the pump floods the whole table and it has gravity return to rez.


----------



## DaGambler (Jan 16, 2010)

theloadeddragon said:


> Have you thought of Coco?


Yah, i've heard alright things about coco. I seem to hear more good things about Hydroton... and read a thread recently where some persons seem to actually prefer to use Lava Rocks rather than Hydroton. Lava is deffinitely cheaper ... and i have a strange compulsion to do things as 'DIY' as possible - and to visit hydro shops as little as possible. Though i do mail order nutes and such.
.


----------



## tilemaster (Jan 16, 2010)

sup pimpin. up to ur old ways eh. just checkin in...


----------



## shnkrmn (Jan 16, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> Yah, i've heard alright things about coco. I seem to hear more good things about Hydroton... and read a thread recently where some persons seem to actually prefer to use Lava Rocks rather than Hydroton. Lava is deffinitely cheaper ... and i have a strange compulsion to do things as 'DIY' as possible - and to visit hydro shops as little as possible. Though i do mail order nutes and such.
> .


I'm guessing lava rocks have to weigh quite a bit more than hydroton. What's the word on them for reuse? Tempting as coco is, I'm not wild about having to have coco-specific nutes, and it could potentially clog the ebb and grow system I just got, so I'm going with hydroton next round.

Your strange compulsion is what makes your thread worth following

Speaking of mail order, I got my ebb and grow from Fedex yesterday. The fedex guy struggled across the road with a 55 gallon barrel just as the nosiest woman in the neighborhood walked by. I THOUGHT it would come in a discreet cardboard box, but NOOOOOO!!!!! The barrel is embossed 'ebb and grow and has a techniflora sticker on the lid. Sheesh. I've decided to ostentatiously install a rain barrel this spring so I can explain that away if it becomes necessary.


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## DaGambler (Jan 16, 2010)

you can clean and re-use lava as you do hydroton.

that FedEx stuff sucks !!  i got a friggin box in the mail (no brown paper wrapping) on a "Stealth RO Unit... Great for Your Indoor Plants..." with lush foliage all over the box  Talk about giving people ideas.... sheeesh.
.


----------



## 420weedman (Jan 19, 2010)

sup man, see your still going great ! 
good to know on ordern that shit ... lol


----------



## DaGambler (Jan 20, 2010)

420weedman said:


> sup man, see your still going great !
> good to know on ordern that shit ... lol


what up g. looks like i missed ur last journal. post up a link if you get another one going. long time no see.
.


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## slipperyP (Jan 20, 2010)

whats up gambler....Thats bullshit with the stealth. My first grow in high school I used lava rock....it worked really excelent. Plus back then before there was any medical it was easy to come by. I don't know if they had hydroton yet and aquiring and hiding dirt in the middle of winter in montana isn't reasonable without too much attention.


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## tilemaster (Jan 20, 2010)

u jsut gotta buy it by the pallet ...then dicreetly locate the pallet of said soil in ur backyard, and then ur golden. sprinkle the root balls around the back yard at night and break them down. thats my trade secret....TM ...hey DG


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## DaGambler (Jan 21, 2010)

slipperyP said:


> ... I used lava rock ... it worked really excelent ...


Good to hear. I know what you mean on coming by the dirt in the wintertime ... round here the selection is quite limited during the cooler months. I like Hyponex potting soil - and the stuff is 'dirt cheap'. But i only see it being available in the spring and early summer.



tilemaster said:


> u jsut gotta buy it by the pallet ...then dicreetly locate the pallet of said soil in ur backyard, and then ur golden. sprinkle the root balls around the back yard at night and break them down. thats my trade secret....TM ...hey DG


ya, if i can find a way to 'get rid' of all the perlite i go through ... i'm sure i could get rid of some soil just as well. i'd feel funny about leaving it in plain site though if i were buying in bulk on a pallet. Hopefully the lava will seem to clean up nicely and i can re-use it.

.


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## Smokiethebear (Jan 28, 2010)

Lava rocks huhh...thats going to be interesting to see one of these days Im going to make the switch to hydro seems like hydroton is the way to go but Im just like you I stay away from the hydro shop as much as I can...I dont ever order stuff off the net....I only have one place to send it and its a bit shady but I seen this suff the other day its kinda like rockwool it looked really cool they have it in every size you can think of they say you just put it in the bucket or whatever you are useing and your done but you can only get it online if I can find the link ill post it


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## DaGambler (Jan 31, 2010)

*Ordered 500 mL of this stuff... hopefully it lives up*
*to its reputation after transplanting some greenery*
*very shortly. Between the crappy weather, being*
*overtimed at work, and never seeming to have*
*enough time in the world to get everything done...*
*trying to make headway on the 1st "Lava Round 1"*

*The light disruption is keeping one of the two*
*gulleys behind at least another 2-3 weeks or more..*
*but the second gulley has been empty for 2 weeks*
*now and i've just been too busy to transplant.*

*Hopefully i'll transplant (24) plants into Lava on*
*the 'morrow. Will toss up some pics when i*
*manage to do so.*

 .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . 
.


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## DaGambler (Jan 31, 2010)

*But first i gotta drop some major props to some of the brothers*
*here at RIU ... say what you will, but for all it's problems, still the*
*best damn weed site on the internet and let me remind you of why....*


*Sure Shot's Youtube Channel:*

http://www.youtube.com/user/TTSSURESHOT

*and some of his videos:*

[youtube]OPkaXhjwbw0[/youtube]

[youtube]sfhNw3qakW8[/youtube]

*And some world-class pics from BooMeR242's Journals:*

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/190582-medicinal-garden-whitewidow-6clones-outdoor-62.html









*I bow before you green bastards. And if we have seen further than other*
*men ... then it is because we have stood on the backs of giants that were*
*growing the good leaf. *
*.*


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## Bob Smith (Jan 31, 2010)

That Roots Excelurator stuff seems to work great - used it on a batch of cuttings two runs ago, and they had vigorous roots within 6-8 days (Rapid Rooters with a heating mat); trying to remember why I'm not using it on this run and I don't know why I'm not (got 50mL as a free sample).

As far as your "hydroton vs. lava rocks", I was looking for some more info on lava rocks, and came across this link (pretty useful, IMO):

http://www.stonerforums.com/lounge/growfaq/1692.html


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## DaGambler (Feb 5, 2010)

Very nice thread, bob... makes me think lava is not such a bad idea... here's another idea
that i've kicked around for a long time now... i'm sure i'm not the first to think of it... but
it helps to explain why vertical square footage and horizontal sqare footage aren't equivalent
(vert. vs. flat sog gardens). A quick picture mock up;

*The IDEAL SOG:*

*




*

*The "ideal" sog should contain plants that are predominantly of an indica*
*phenotype, such that they are apt to grow in the 'christmas tree' type conical*
*shape. The base of each plant is just touching its neighbor... and each plant*
*has a conical shape for better bud depth. These peaks and valleys multiply the*
*'square footage' mightily. This is to be much preferred over a single layer or*
*blanket of buds... for maximum yield.*

*(And another 'steal' from GypsyBush's Thread: A movie called, "Grow Op")*
*http://www.megavideo.com/?v=U9UDLEMH*


*- DaGambler*
*.*


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## BooMeR242 (Feb 7, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> *But first i gotta drop some major props to some of the brothers*
> *here at RIU ... say what you will, but for all it's problems, still the*
> *best damn weed site on the internet and let me remind you of why....*
> 
> ...




thanks for the credit DG. everyone on RIU hopefully brings sumthing to the table. but of course more photoshoots to come


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## DaGambler (Feb 7, 2010)

*Current Clone Crop going into the Flower Room Next Weekend:*


*




*


*First DIY Table on Left: Durban Poison and White Russian Clones*


*Second DIY Table on Right: Seedling Hybrids of Mr. Nice (G13xHashPlant) crossed with several varieties.*


*




*


*And the new 5 gal. buckets i'll be using with Lava Rock. Furniture tack with an extra felt and rubber spacer to keep one side of the bucket up off the ground for water flow.*


*




*


*Most of the remaining plants should be ready to harvest next weekend ... about 6 of them might not be, but those bi-atches are going into a separate room to finish if need be, 'cuz they have taken too long already due to a light interuption.*


*Plants grow real slow under the 6400k Flouro's ... but that's okay 'cuz they stay pretty compact and you can always cut them back if you aren't ready for them yet. I take new clones just before switching to flower ... so they got a good 9 weeks to dilly-dally.*
*.*


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## Bob Smith (Feb 8, 2010)

Looking good, my friend - question for you:

How difficult did you find pollination to be?

Thinking of trying my hand at it, but would hate to fuck up and seed the other two crops that are going to be flowering in the same room.


----------



## DaGambler (Feb 8, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Looking good, my friend - question for you:
> 
> How difficult did you find pollination to be?
> 
> Thinking of trying my hand at it, but would hate to fuck up and seed the other two crops that are going to be flowering in the same room.


As soon as you spot the male remove him. Ignore him. Abuse him. It doesn't matter. Put him in a closet by himself and water every 2nd or 3rd day using just a 4 ft. flourescent fixture (one bulb out of two is fine). No matter what you do he's still going to produce more pollen than you can ever use. (Pollen doesn't store well so you'll have to use it on this crop.) Place each male 'bud' in its own upside down plastic bag. Open bag at top of bud with the bud poked up through a small hole in the bottom of the bag. These bags will then collect the pollen. Remove the 'Mommy' from the flower room. Put her in a garbage bag (upside down bag) and tie it shut. Then poke the one donor branch through the bag that you want to impregnate. You can go Picasso with a paint brush spreading the male pollen on to her... or you can just dip her branch into the male's pollen collection bags... pinch the bag closed around the male / female branch ends and shake things up and rub them together ... (then take a cold shower  if it made you feel dirty). Remove female branch... shake it off real good and put it back into the flower room... or even leave it out for a few more hours with an oscillating fan pointing at that branch to blow off any unwanted pollen.

A single female branch seeded in this way is likely to produce 100 seeds or more. You'll want to do this by / around the 5th week in flowering... then allow that plant to go a week or so longer than the rest so that more seeds have time to mature.
.


----------



## Bob Smith (Feb 8, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> As soon as you spot the male remove him. Ignore him. Abuse him. It doesn't matter. Put him in a closet by himself and water every 2nd or 3rd day using just a 4 ft. flourescent fixture (one bulb out of two is fine). No matter what you do he's still going to produce more pollen than you can ever use. (Pollen doesn't store well so you'll have to use it on this crop.) Place each male 'bud' in its own upside down plastic bag. Open bag at top of bud with the bud poked up through a small hole in the bottom of the bag. These bags will then collect the pollen. Remove the 'Mommy' from the flower room. Put her in a garbage bag (upside down) and tie it shut. Then poke the one donor branch through the bag that you want to impregnate. You can go Picasso with a paint brush spreading the male pollen on to her... or you can just dip her branch into the male's pollen collection bags... pinch the bag closed around the male / female branch ends and shake things up and rub them together ... (then take a cold shower  if it made you feel dirty). Remove female branch... shake it off real good and put it back into the flower room... or even leave it out for a few more hours with an oscillating fan pointing at that branch to blow off any unwanted pollen.
> 
> A single female branch seeded in this way is likely to produce 100 seeds or more. You'll want to do this by / around the 5th week in flowering... then allow that plant to go a week or so longer than the rest so that more seeds have time to mature.
> .


Firstly, great shit, and + rep for that little tutorial.

Have 10 seedlings going, so if I spot a worthwhile male (hell, even if I just spot ANY male, since I just wanna practice) I'm gonna use him to pollinate every strain I have (similar to your Mr. Nice breeding).

So, here's my deal - gonna go 12/12 in my flowering tent about 2.18.10, and shooting to go 12/12 in my other tent (both levels) around March 1st.............so, should I sneak a male into my flower tent to give him a little head start on showing himself? Gonna be pollinating the plants that I'm flowering out under fluoros on the bottom level (and then use them as hash material), so if I could get a head start on the male, I could pollinate them earlier and be done earlier, no?

EDIT: the sons of bitches wouldn't let me rep you...........


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## DRIPS420 (Feb 8, 2010)

Dope thread and setup man. Im gonna try that male thing...my buddy just had a master cheese that hermied and im gonna try it with some gods gift thats 4 weeks in. You think that the hermis flower will work.....?


----------



## DaGambler (Feb 9, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> So, here's my deal - gonna go 12/12 in my flowering tent about 2.18.10, and shooting to go 12/12 in my other tent (both levels) around March 1st.............so, should I sneak a male into my flower tent to give him a little head start on showing himself? Gonna be pollinating the plants that I'm flowering out under fluoros on the bottom level (and then use them as hash material), so if I could get a head start on the male, I could pollinate them earlier and be done earlier, no?...


 
sure, sure, the sooner begun, the sooner done. the way outlined was just to minimize the impact on a commercial crop. Genetics are genetics... for seed purposes the lights you are using won't matter at all. It won't hurt having the male a couple weeks ahead of whatever females ur seeding. I guess you can store pollen in a fridge... but only for a couple weeks or so before it loses potency.



DRIPS420 said:


> ...my buddy just had a master cheese that hermied and im gonna try it with some gods gift thats 4 weeks in. You think that the hermis flower will work.....?


worst case scenario is that it will throw plants more likely to hermi themselves. but, occasionally, you've got a 'perfectly normal' female that just throws a male flower or two (perhaps due to some stressor) ... when this happens it is only producing female pollen. so the good news is that all the seeds would likely be female.
.


----------



## DRIPS420 (Feb 9, 2010)

gonna go check out the situation today....hoping for just a few loose flowers. Fingers crossed. thanks.


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## DaGambler (Feb 14, 2010)

*Finally got off my ass... Put (5) White Russians in a separate room to finish flowering and put (6) Mr. Nice outside the Gulleys till i can harvest them.*


*




*


*(Above Pic: A T-Loop that feeds the new Drip Setup... makes a giant circle around both gulleys ... equalizing pressure. Added Drip to the Ebb 'N Flow.)*


*




*


*(Above Pic: Made the (2) gulleys each a foot less wide... re-aligned the lights... switched from perlite as a media to Lava Rocks. You can see the drip feeder lines.)*


*




*


*(Above Pic: Plants just transplanted today. I'll likely veg. them in the flower room for up to 2 weeks before flipping the switch to flower.)*


*Overall - very satisfied with the last ebb 'n flow harvest in perlite. Yielded at least 6 lbs... Probably closer to 7 or 8. Running 7k HPS. Have high hopes for the new Lava medium as well as having added on the drip hybrid ebb 'n flow setup. I'll be flooding every 4 hours and the drip is perpetual. Also looking to add some cages - one to each bucket yet. Still have to throw another 24 of them together.*


*- DaGambler*
*.*


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## shnkrmn (Feb 15, 2010)

Busy, busy, busy. I'll never match your energy, man. 5 or 6 pounds sounds really nice. I was lucky to scrape an ounce per plant last round. Should do substantially better in my current run.

Adding the drip lines sounds like you just ran out of something to do. With 4 floods a day it seems redundant or does lava have issues with lack of water retention? That's not what I've read. Anyway, looks like you're going to grow a serious forest this time.


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Feb 15, 2010)

Ok man, I see you everywhere and I have always been put off by your avatar, but you always have good information to share. So I finally clicked your grow link and I am glad I did. Fantastic set-up and it looks all DIY, fanominal!! Did you glue the liner to the frame of your tables? Is it pool liner? That was a great video, good combo of ass and buds  Are you running a sea of green and did you last run? Do you run two 1000k's per table? Sorry for so many questions, but I am intrigued now lol . I want to get closer to 1 GPL, my last one was about .5 GPL. 
Scribed
+rep


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## Drella (Feb 15, 2010)

wow bro, what a setup! im here now, scribed and +rep, your every boys dream! good luck on this one bro, im pulling up a chair!


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## BooMeR242 (Feb 15, 2010)

#1Raiderfan420 said:


> Ok man, I see you everywhere and I have always been put off by your avatar, but you always have good information to share. So I finally clicked your grow link and I am glad I did. Fantastic set-up and it looks all DIY, fanominal!! Did you glue the liner to the frame of your tables? Is it pool liner? That was a great video, good combo of ass and buds  Are you running a sea of green and did you last run? Do you run two 1000k's per table? Sorry for so many questions, but I am intrigued now lol . I want to get closer to 1 GPL, my last one was about .5 GPL.
> Scribed
> +rep





Drella said:


> wow bro, what a setup! im here now, scribed and +rep, your every boys dream! good luck on this one bro, im pulling up a chair!


 
good to see raider and drella in here followin DGs grow. hes got a lot of good info to share.\


but anyways DG ure right, very intriguing setup u got here now. thanks for the headsup. the table and craftmenship looks great btw. DIY def is good for u understanding how everything works and how to fix it. and saves money.
now im seeing its a flood and drain system but ure using a drip system too? whys that? jw. ive been battling the decision of which one to go with but u sir are having ur cake and eating it too.
are u running to waste or recirc the runoff?


----------



## DaGambler (Feb 15, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Adding the drip lines sounds like you just ran out of something to do. With 4 floods a day it seems redundant or does lava have issues with lack of water retention? That's not what I've read. Anyway, looks like you're going to grow a serious forest this time.


*Actually its 6 floods a day... for now. The drip lines prevent me from ever having to top water after transplanting - which is often quite necessary when trying to pull roots down in ebb 'n flow - though i do try to position the plants such that their bottom reaches the highest flood height initially - it doesn't always happen though. So i consider this a 'no work, no stress' setup. Even if the pumps were to fail temporarily... the plants would still survive. I may actually turn off the drip for awhile after pulling a few roots down... to encourage better root spread through the lava.*
*.*


----------



## DaGambler (Feb 15, 2010)

#1Raiderfan420 said:


> ...and it looks all DIY, fanominal!! Did you glue the liner to the frame of your tables? Is it pool liner? That was a great video, good combo of ass and buds  Are you running a sea of green and did you last run? Do you run two 1000k's per table? Sorry for so many questions, but I am intrigued now lol . I want to get closer to 1 GPL, my last one was about .5 GPL.
> Scribed
> +rep


*Yeah, DIY clone tables with 6 mil. plastic sheeting and DIY flower gulleys with Pond Liner ... just put it in place and it stays there. Each gulley is 4' x 10' (using 3 1/2' by 8' on pot footprint) and has (3) 1k lamps over it as well as another 1k lamp in the center of the two gulleys ... for 7k total. Though i wouldn't mind putting another (4) 400w HPS bulbs around the two gulley outsides, may or may not happen. The clone tables are 2' x 8' and each has (6) 4' Flouro's [2 bulb] over them. Thanks fer checking it out. The avatar is an unpleasant, though necessary, reminder to the feint of heart.*
*.*


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## DaGambler (Feb 15, 2010)

BooMeR242 said:


> ... and saves money.
> now im seeing its a flood and drain system but ure using a drip system too? whys that? jw. ive been battling the decision of which one to go with but u sir are having ur cake and eating it too.
> are u running to waste or recirc the runoff?


*DIY deffinitely saves money ... i flinch everytime i read about how much people are paying for pre-fab stuff. And i've seen nothing on the market that can perform as well as systems that you can (must) DIY. [Though the "UnderCurrent DWC" setup comes close to ideal ... just add some drip tubes - it uses fast moving recirc water in individual totes ... a bucket or netpot of hygroton in each tote, and an air stone in each tote, with all totes inter-connected. http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f8/under-current-hydroponic-system-6925/ ] Would of cost 4800 dollars if I had gone this commercial route to run 48 plants (plus shipping) ... rather than just a few hundred DIY. My totes are sitting unused for now.*

*The ebb 'n flow and drip combo is a step toward a cadilllac DWC / drip combo that i was looking into that uses 27 gal. totes and lots of bubble action to make big trees in vertical setups that surrround a plant with lights (rather than surrounding a light with plants). Many peeps talked me down from the potential problems of DWC - so i'm doing ebb 'n flow again, but the drip can't hurt and helps to pull down the roots escpecially in the beggining - no need to top water.*

*They are ebb 'n flow gulleys and all run-off (including drip) goes to the 300 gal. rez (stock tank with a pond liner) below the house.*
*.*


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## BooMeR242 (Feb 15, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> *DIY deffinitely saves money ... i flinch everytime i read about how much people are paying for pre-fab stuff. And i've seen nothing on the market that can perform as well as systems that you can (must) DIY. [Though the "UnderCurrent DWC" setup comes close to ideal ... just add some drip tubes - it uses fast moving recirc water in individual totes ... a bucket or netpot of hygroton in each tote, and an air stone in each tote, with all totes inter-connected. http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f8/under-current-hydroponic-system-6925/ ] Would of cost 4800 dollars if I had gone this commercial route to run 48 plants (plus shipping) ... rather than just a few hundred DIY. My totes are sitting unused for now.*
> 
> *The ebb 'n flow and drip combo is a step toward a cadilllac DWC / drip combo that i was looking into that uses 27 gal. totes and lots of bubble action to make big trees in vertical setups that surrround a plant with lights (rather than surrounding a light with plants). Many peeps talked me down from the potential problems of DWC - so i'm doing ebb 'n flow again, but the drip can't hurt and helps to pull down the roots escpecially in the beggining - no need to top water.*
> 
> ...


ya thats awesome to save that much cash on a DIY setup. just wish i knew all wtf im doin to build my own shit and save money. but for now ill spend cash just to get everything setup.

thanks for the link im gona check it out and see if i can pikup sum more ideas


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Feb 16, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> *Yeah, DIY clone tables with 6 mil. plastic sheeting and DIY flower gulleys with Pond Liner ... just put it in place and it stays there. Each gulley is 4' x 10' (using 3 1/2' by 8' on pot footprint) and has (3) 1k lamps over it as well as another 1k lamp in the center of the two gulleys ... for 7k total. Though i wouldn't mind putting another (4) 400w HPS bulbs around the two gulley outsides, may or may not happen. The clone tables are 2' x 8' and each has (6) 4' Flouro's [2 bulb] over them. Thanks fer checking it out. The avatar is an unpleasant, though necessary, reminder to the feint of heart.*
> *.*


 
Very nice set-up man. That is a ton of light and obviaously the ladies love it. That pond liner is some tough stuff, I am using as a floor to my current room. I am moving my room soon and will take some examples from you. Thanks. 
As for the avatar, I get it now. That makes sense and adds a whole new perspective. lol


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## Smokiethebear (Feb 17, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> *Finally got off my ass... Put (5) White Russians in a separate room to finish flowering and put (6) Mr. Nice outside the Gulleys till i can harvest them.*
> 
> 
> *
> ...


 
Lookin good in there when I first seen he drip feed I thought you ran out of upgrades now I seen the reason for your madness lol....tell me more about the lava rocks...anything special you need to look for when you buy them? any special treatment before you put them to use?


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## DaGambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Smokiethebear said:


> Lookin good in there when I first seen he drip feed I thought you ran out of upgrades now I seen the reason for your madness lol....tell me more about the lava rocks...anything special you need to look for when you buy them? any special treatment before you put them to use?


*What-up bro. Try to find a brand called "Flower Rocks" or something to that effect ... very small diameter. If you have a choice between two diameters (at Lowe's or Home Depot) choose the smaller of the two diameters. I just rinsed 'em off with non-RO water and filled the buckets half up... held the clone cups in place (with bottoms removed) and back-filled around the cups. No transplant shock what-so-ever. I do believe the drip feeding helped significantly with that... otherwise some of them may not have been positioned adequately.*

*Also, if you have the option, choose black lava rocks over red lava rocks. (From the 'research' i have done, they are slightly more pH neutral, but people use red lava all the time and have no problems.) Dirt cheap compared to Hydroton ... and people that have used both actually seem to prefer Lava by a small percent.*
*.*


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## jfgordon1 (Feb 20, 2010)

Subscribe. ...


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## Hulk Nugs (Feb 20, 2010)

Dagambler been watching your work for awhile now and the rooms are very well setup!!!! 

Always enjoy checking out your veg area tons of clones happy as can be even i believe the little farmer joins us every once in awhile.

Been enjoying the video in your sig, but looking forward to the new one.


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## DaGambler (Feb 21, 2010)

Hulk Nugs said:


> Dagambler been watching your work for awhile now and the rooms are very well setup!!!!
> 
> Always enjoy checking out your veg area tons of clones happy as can be even i believe the little farmer joins us every once in awhile.
> 
> Been enjoying the video in your sig, but looking forward to the new one.


*heheh, i remember the little farmer  hafta get him in the pics some more.*

*you got me kicking around some ideas for the next video. *
*.*


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## DaGambler (Feb 21, 2010)

*(6 Days after transplant into the Flower Room.)*

*




*

*(The Right Gulley: 24 Durban Poison and White Russian)*

*




*

*(The Left Gulley: 24 more with a majority being Mr. Nice hybrids)*

*Knowing that they stretch / grow for another 2 weeks after switching to 12/12 ... i'll be rushing to take clones tomorrow, trying to ram on some cages, and flipping the switch on flower mode. Still trying to harvest the last 2 Mr. Nice plants from the previous crop (all of which yeilded at least 3 ounces, while the Durban Poisons all yeilded at least 2 ounces and the [good] White Russians yeilded from 2 to 4 ounces each). Just about ready to give up on the 5 White Russians that stalled in growth and then suffered light disruption (they are in a separate room). Dey iz Ug-lee. My ppm just got bumped from 780 to about 950. Using 2 parts G.H. Micro to 3 parts G.H. Bloom (no G.H. Grow).*
*.*


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## cazador (Feb 21, 2010)

DG, Looking very nice there. I'm getting ready for another round and am trying to decide if I want to try out a copy of your setup this go around. Is there something that if you were to do it over, that you would do differently? Or anything that comes to mind that would be helpful that might not have been obvious at the start. Thanks


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## DaGambler (Feb 21, 2010)

cazador said:


> DG, Looking very nice there. I'm getting ready for another round and am trying to decide if I want to try out a copy of your setup this go around. Is there something that if you were to do it over, that you would do differently? Or anything that comes to mind that would be helpful that might not have been obvious at the start. Thanks


*I make changes every round ... still havn't determined the full merits of the current setup - but i am expecting good things (especially based upon the current growth over the last week). My setup requires a very minimum of effort, IMO. Once things are running its just a matter or monitoring pH / ppm and doing rez. change-outs every couple weeks.*

*Buying some more 16-20oz. cups today... will solder gun some holes around the bottom perimeter and stuff them with perlite. Pull approx. one clone from each girl in the flower room (from the bottoms of the plants) - and then do some light lollipopping. Then cages will go on and i'll flip them to 12/12.*

*There is a 'time' and 'order' for everything ... in keeping the crop perpetual, but its nothing too mysterious. Throw me a journal link (or setup thread, etc.) if you get one going and i'd be happy to go along for the ride.*
*.*


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## cazador (Feb 21, 2010)

Thanks DG. I'll start a grow journal as soon as I get things harvested. First thinks first.  I wold be honored to have you checking on my grow and chiming in. Thanks again bro.


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Feb 21, 2010)

They look very happy Gambler! I am curious about the cages you speak of. lol do you put an individual cage on each bucket?


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## DaGambler (Feb 21, 2010)

#1Raiderfan420 said:


> They look very happy Gambler! I am curious about the cages you speak of. lol do you put an individual cage on each bucket?









*(Clones taken just today ... and a couple seedling 'mums' i cut way **back to get them more in-line with the new clone crop.)*







*(Cages finally made and placed on the buckets. Ther' Not Going Anywhere.)*







*Yipper, an individual cage on each bucket. I've got several varieties of weed growing and they finish at different times ... so a screen or net wouldn't be an option. But this'll work. And now it's bedtime for Bonzo. They will take their first nap tonight for about 24 hours Off and then start their 12/12 cycle.*
*.*


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## Hulk Nugs (Feb 22, 2010)

nice cage wrap, looks like it would work better then the tomatao cages i have been seeing used.

Will be trying that on at least one of my mothers some time. 

Was wondering how your work area(Restanks, timers, ....) is setup, i am always curious to see how a expericanced grower did it.


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## liljheazy (Feb 22, 2010)

again great setup man, did you top those clones in the first pic cause they look topped. also im trying to get some of those cages for my big ass sativas, were do you think i could get some?


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## DaGambler (Feb 23, 2010)

liljheazy said:


> again great setup man, did you top those clones in the first pic cause they look topped. also im trying to get some of those cages for my big ass sativas, were do you think i could get some?


*not sure. mine are just 4 ft. no climb fencing split up the middle, wrapped and bent. you'll probably not find anything as sturdy as what you can make.*
*.*


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## Smokiethebear (Feb 23, 2010)

You got some crazy growth in those 6 days...this is going to be a good run


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## tilemaster (Feb 23, 2010)

heres wut i made.... thought id share a few pics with ya DG ..


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Feb 23, 2010)

Gambler I like the cages. Can you get you hand through the fence to trim if need? I may give that a try my next round.


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## DaGambler (Feb 24, 2010)

tilemaster said:


> heres wut i made.... thought id share a few pics with ya DG ..


*you asshat, ur show'in me up in my own thread !!  nah, just kidding bro.  Once again, ur light height scares me ... but its obviously working if ur getting a useable footprint like that. Makes me want to switch to some XXXL Magnum reflectors.*
*.*


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## DaGambler (Feb 24, 2010)

#1Raiderfan420 said:


> Gambler I like the cages. Can you get you hand through the fence to trim if need? I may give that a try my next round.


*i can thin a few fan leaves if needed or adjust the individual drippers ... but they'll pretty much be left alone after two weeks into flower.*
*.*


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## DaGambler (Feb 24, 2010)

Hulk Nugs said:


> Was wondering how your work area (Res. tanks, timers, ....) is setup, i am always curious to see how a expericanced grower did it.


*Wouldn't have a clue as to how an 'experienced grower' would do things ... but here's the best "behind the scenes" managerie that i can throw together:*







*(Above Pic: Crusty little work area that is perpetually dirty. The last of the Mr. Nice that'll harvest tonight. She'll pull about 2 oz. dry.)*







*Drying rack that is cleared off as needed to make way for more paper lunch sacks. Plants immediately manicured and placed into sacks between 90g and 140g total weight. (Paper bag is weighed, minus the bag weight, divided by four, add the bag weight. The finish weight is written on the bag. I throw the sacks on the scale when in doubt until they reach the desired weight. Bag 'em for a couple days in plastic baggies, then open some of those for a couple more days if needed.)*







*The cluster-fuck of power cords for some of the HPS lamps, fans, blowers, etc. Deffinitely pro  The ballasts are below the house. Lamp cords come up through the center of the room.*







*You'll have to use your imagination on this one. The big black thing is the 300 gal. rez. below the house ... a couple of timers for the UV light water pumps that feed the ebb 'n flow and another timer for the solenoid RO water float valve.*
*.*


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## Hulk Nugs (Feb 24, 2010)

Might not look the best but gets the job done, great idea on the res under the house cool temps and out of the way.

Thank you for sharing


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## slipperyP (Feb 24, 2010)

looks good....like money about to go to the bank


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## tilemaster (Feb 24, 2010)

i like that ballast idea. im about to drop all 8 of mine under the homestead. bravo. thats better than the attic in my opion, just cause i already had heat issues up there, and im concerned im sucking too much cold air up under my house, so the ballast will help with any see ur breath affect in the winter....*under the house* .

i know u took issue with my hoods DG wen i first set up the bigger room. i found with the 1kers i could keep them that far away, and during the flip they would stretch, but not a bad stretch, and after that period ,they were almost in an acceptable range away from lamps like 18 in. my yields havent really changed all that much that i can tell from the lights being higher. but i do lower them and raise them and try to keep them between 18 and 28 inches from canopy. my veg room MH lights 2k is slammed right over the canopy usually like 8-12 inches ... but then they move


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Feb 24, 2010)

So you don't hang your buds and go straight to the paper sacks? How long does your drying process take? I am curious about this one, am thinking of using the baskets this time. You dfinatly have a lot going on man. The set-up is awesome, I am trying to get my head wrapped around the whole set-up, it is intailed for sure.


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## Sealion (Feb 24, 2010)

Looks good man. A lot to learn from this journal.


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## DaGambler (Feb 24, 2010)

#1Raiderfan420 said:


> So you don't hang your buds and go straight to the paper sacks? How long does your drying process take? I am curious about this one, am thinking of using the baskets this time.


*I try to maintain temps (in the drying room) at 74-80 degrees and humidity below 50% ... with a fan stirring the air up. A paper bag dry (on a rack) takes about 7 days under these conditions. At 90-100g per bag you never need to toss the buds. At 120g or more, with some large budded indicas, you may need to stir up the buds every couple days. I break the colas down so i don't have to do that ... and keep indica dominant phenotypes below 100g wet weight so there aren't any mold issues.*
*.*


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## Bob Smith (Feb 24, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> *you asshat, ur show'in me up in my own thread !!  nah, just kidding bro.  Once again, ur light height scares me ... but its obviously working if ur getting a useable footprint like that. Makes me want to switch to some XXXL Magnum reflectors.*
> *.*


I just mounted mine a couple of days ago over a 4x4 Botanicare tray and it's unreal the coverage it provides - FULL coverage from 6" above the plants for the entire tray.

Upgrades look awesome, and I like the failsafe of the dripper added to the E&F.

This may be a silly question, but what happens to all your equipment below the house if it rains a lot?


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## DaGambler (Feb 24, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Upgrades look awesome, and I like the failsafe of the dripper added to the E&F.
> 
> This may be a silly question, but what happens to all your equipment below the house if it rains a lot?


*The ground around here shifts a lot as it is ... but it stays pretty dry below the house. Doesn't hurt (being over dirt) that all the used perlite has been going down there as insulation. The rez. benefits from being in contact with the ground ... keeps it cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter. The ballasts are on a rubber horse-stall mat on top of a coffee table down there (cement blocks and a board). *
*.*


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## DaGambler (Feb 25, 2010)

*5 of the larger buds i couldn't see breaking up any further off the last Mr. Nice (G13 x Hash Plant) that was harvested. There were nine of those total - they all yeilded at least 2 oz. and at least a couple yeilded just over 4 oz. each. This girl ended up yeilding 436 wet manicured ... so she'll come out to about 109 grams dry. (5 grams shy of 4 oz.) 'Fraid my camera isn't real keen on close-ups.*






.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 25, 2010)

looks like a marijuana sock puppet.


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## Sealion (Feb 25, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> .


Looks good


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## liljheazy (Feb 25, 2010)

that shit looks crazy!


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## x15 (Feb 25, 2010)

bud envy 

fantastic!


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## DaGambler (Feb 26, 2010)

*Let this be a warning to all of you ...*

*[youtube]VBjflAryJGE&feature=channel[/youtube]*


*"... Inability to coordinate movement ..." and *
*"**... Uncontrollable hillarity without reason..."*
*.*


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## jfgordon1 (Feb 26, 2010)

^ oh the humanity !


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## slipperyP (Feb 26, 2010)

lol.....who did they make watch that shit anyway, and wtf were they scared of uncontrolled hillarity for? Its is a sign of how out of control things really are... Our goverment creates branches that are put in place to keep us safe and really there just there to ensure the poisioning continues. 

1.MSG-excitotoxin in more then 4500 foods that can make a turd taste great and last for a really long time but sometimes can cause pormanent brain damage. Plus humans are 20x more sensitive to msg then the next closest animal so the tests are very skewed.

2.Aspertame, asufame potassium, and all the other non calorie sweetners. Aspertame used to be a chemical weapon before bush was vice president before it was a sweetner....They all kill the brain or cause cancer and lots of other awful things.

3.Squaleen- This is a dirty secret the vaccine companies dont want people to focus on. Its an oil used to create more shots from the same base stock. Once your body gets it it kicks the imune sysetem into overdrive and your body litterally fights itself to death. Make sure you dont get it becase its a painful death sentence...there no doubt about what it does.

Our goverment spends millions and millions keeping the things above legal and even more keeping weed illeagal and miking dumbass videos like that one above.

Anyway about the grow...hows the lava rocks working....It looked nice last I saw.


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## DaGambler (Feb 27, 2010)

slipperyP said:


> 2.Aspertame, asufame potassium, and all the other non calorie sweetners. Aspertame used to be a chemical weapon before bush was vice president before it was a sweetner....They all kill the brain or cause cancer and lots of other awful things.
> 
> 3.Squaleen- This is a dirty secret the vaccine companies dont want people to focus on. Its an oil used to create more shots from the same base stock. Once your body gets it it kicks the imune sysetem into overdrive and your body litterally fights itself to death. Make sure you dont get it becase its a painful death sentence...there no doubt about what it does.
> 
> ...


*"The adjuvant is an oil called squalene, which causes incurable autoimmune disease in animals. Autoimmune diseases occur when the immune system attacks the body instead of defending it."*

Wow. Yeah, i'da skipped letting my kids get that crap vaccine injected into them, especially with no long term trials and the rate of death seen from the disease itself being so low.

Man, i know i'm not crazy when it comes to Aspartame now  It took me a while to figure it out (I've got plenty of triggers) but -EVERY- single artificial sweetner i've tried will cause me to get a migraine headache. I KNOW sugar isn't as bad as -that- crap for my body.

Ya, the government makes billions of dollars off cigarettes and alcohol each year knowing that millions of people die from them. And yet marijunana -doesn't- cause cancer and is illegal. It's not even a 'conspiracy' when its so blatant.

The lava is working *mint* ... thanks for asking. I'll continue to cut the tops down to cage height until the 2nd week into flowering is over. (Just finished the first week into 12/12.)
.


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## tilemaster (Feb 27, 2010)

yes all very true statements about the government and fda. so many secrets and dont tells, it makes me sick. scare tactics of 1937 and a phoney tax stamp MJ law emerged. and prohibition since. how many cultivators have done hard time next to violent offenders/sex offenders over the last 60years? on the taxpayers dime. Yet George Washington was one of the first recorded men to cultivate hemp, while journaling the fact he had started to cull the males from the females, (the first sinsimilla being found out).....

right now just after i branched out city zoning and regulation is headed right my way. do residential uses apply to home agricultural uses. can u bag and weight meds and sell them out of a residence? Does ur scale have to be certified? will they nail u for lableing MJ as organic when ur not certfied? the war is still very much out there. man wen i think about it i beome really negitive. deep breath . sigh. moving right along...exhale...ohh much better now..


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## southern homegrower (Feb 27, 2010)

DG. Did you check out them air pots. Just wanted to know what you thought about them


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## DaGambler (Feb 27, 2010)

southern homegrower said:


> DG. Did you check out them air pots. Just wanted to know what you thought about them


i've seen a link for them in two different places now ... but neither page would load or the link was dead or something.

what i just looked up is talking about a 'conical' construction, roots don't spiral but air-prune themselves, etc. ... but it looks like they are specificially for use with soil.

I know, if you can afford it, that large uncoated ceramic pots are better for soil grows than plastic containers or bag grows, etc. The ceramic allows the soil to go through wet / dry cycles faster and is more breathable.






.


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## tilemaster (Feb 27, 2010)

that container looks crazy...


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## DaGambler (Feb 28, 2010)

*Some 'mums' visible in pics - still trying to coax some trichomes from these delayed 5 plants from the last crop.*







*1 wk into 12/12 - still trimming plants to cage height, tucking branches back into the cage or wacking them off, till the end of the 2nd week into 12/12.*







*Cracked lids on the clone domes at 7 days in ... will look at removing the lids w/in the next 2-3 days.*






.


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## Hulk Nugs (Feb 28, 2010)

nice update!!

keeping you busy i bet, plants are looking great. Then to top it off beautiful huge nugs in the middle 

Clones are look healthy as can be i bet you get around 99% success on them.

Did you ever think about cutting some screen to put over the top of the screen wraping around the plant, like a cage. COG 

EDIT: Hate when that happens, UPDATE LAST PAGE !!!!!!!!!!


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## jjmd (Feb 28, 2010)

Hey G, Looks like those science classes back in school have payed off. looks like the new setup is doing what you have been looking for. here iss were I am at with mine.

UNK Types but their growing.


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## tilemaster (Feb 28, 2010)

sweet update . love the clone/perlite lids. very individually inventive. i see wut u mean why u object to my light height, youve got ur slammed right over the canopy, and even a verticle bulb. i know ur yields have to edge mine out with the lumens much closer, but i see how u'd have to duck ur head around venting , 6in inline fans, and the hoods. that one plant under the verticle looked like all budd with no trim.


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## slipperyP (Feb 28, 2010)

tilemaster said:


> yes all very true statements about the government and fda. so many secrets and dont tells, it makes me sick. scare tactics of 1937 and a phoney tax stamp MJ law emerged. and prohibition since. how many cultivators have done hard time next to violent offenders/sex offenders over the last 60years? on the taxpayers dime. Yet George Washington was one of the first recorded men to cultivate hemp, while journaling the fact he had started to cull the males from the females, (the first sinsimilla being found out).....
> 
> right now just after i branched out city zoning and regulation is headed right my way. do residential uses apply to home agricultural uses. can u bag and weight meds and sell them out of a residence? Does ur scale have to be certified? will they nail u for lableing MJ as organic when ur not certfied? the war is still very much out there. man wen i think about it i beome really negitive. deep breath . sigh. moving right along...exhale...ohh much better now..



I thinik theres is more grey area in some instances then actual written substance. The war is definitly still on. It okay to be negative when you think about it, there brainwashed assholes that are sure they are right tring to fuck with our way of life. Im sad to say there will be a time of regulation in the future and im just enjoying things now.


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## slipperyP (Feb 28, 2010)

sweet setup....I cant wait to see the cages fill out....It gonna be good


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## Bob Smith (Feb 28, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> *Some 'mums' visible in pics - still trying to coax some trichomes from these delayed 5 plants from the last crop.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Where'd you get the vertical bulb from? Not sure where one goes about purchasing just vert bulbs like that.......also, is that one "bare bulb rated" or WTF it's called so that it won't explode if some water hits it?

A link would be phenomenal kiss-ass


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## DaGambler (Feb 28, 2010)

*I hope i'm not mistaken, but i believe that almost all HPS bulbs can be used either horizontally or vertically... while MH bulbs are generally only to be used in a horizontal position ... *


*"*Okay, most any hps bulb is considered a multi burn meaning it can be used horiz or vert. Metal Halide bulbs are almost always burn specific. You should always purchase a mh bulb designed for the position you will use it. Lamp life is reduced 60-90 percent when used out of position. Good luck!!! -FEDOR*"*


*And the center bulb is unprotected. I guess i like to live dangerously  .*
*.*


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## jfgordon1 (Feb 28, 2010)

^ lol

How's power usage? Seems like it would be a tad high? lol


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## DaGambler (Feb 28, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> ^ lol
> 
> How's power usage? Seems like it would be a tad high? lol


*it's not bad - i dont' use any heat or a.c. in the flower room. Other than the grow ... i only use electricity in one other room in the house ... and only turn on the water heater for an hour or so before taking a shower.*

*well ... 'not bad' might be a stretch - but it could worse.  believe i average under 4000 kwH.*


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## tilemaster (Feb 28, 2010)

my house jsut shot me a comparison from last year be4 i moved here then now. an entire graph to google over . went from an average of .30c per day, to 15.50 . whoops.


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## Thundercat (Feb 28, 2010)

Gambler amazing is an understatement buddy. Those girls look amazing man! I hope some day I get this shit down like you man.


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Feb 28, 2010)

Lookin good gambler!! Will you keep the plants inside the wire the entire time or do you weave them through the sides at all to seperate the buds? I do a scrog now, but have thought about making a individual screen for each pot so they can be moved. I may just give your way a shot.


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## DaGambler (Mar 1, 2010)

#1Raiderfan420 said:


> Lookin good gambler!! Will you keep the plants inside the wire the entire time or do you weave them through the sides at all to seperate the buds? I do a scrog now, but have thought about making a individual screen for each pot so they can be moved. I may just give your way a shot.


*One more week of wacking off branches that stray outside the cages ... or anything that creeps much higher than the cage top. After 14 days on 12/12 they'll stop vegging and start to focus on flower production - at which time i'll leave them alone. They've only got a 12" window of sway at the top ... other than that, they've got all the support that they'll need. I hope. *

*I'll try to keep each plant in its cage. I'd like to maintain a bit of a space between plants to allow for better light penetration. It may just be a fantasy ... but i'd like to pursue this 'cone of green' idea as much as i am able:*

*"The IDEAL SOG:*

*




*

*The "ideal" sog should contain plants that are predominantly of an indica*
*phenotype, such that they are apt to grow in the 'christmas tree' type conical*
*shape. The base of each plant is just touching its neighbor... and each plant*
*has a conical shape for better bud depth. These peaks and valleys multiply the*
*'square footage' mightily. This is to be much preferred over a single layer or*
*blanket of buds... for maximum yield."*

*- DaGambler* 
.  .  .  .


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## Bob Smith (Mar 1, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> *I hope i'm not mistaken, but i believe that almost all HPS bulbs can be used either horizontally or vertically... while MH bulbs are generally only to be used in a horizontal position ... *
> 
> 
> *"*Okay, most any hps bulb is considered a multi burn meaning it can be used horiz or vert. Metal Halide bulbs are almost always burn specific. You should always purchase a mh bulb designed for the position you will use it. Lamp life is reduced 60-90 percent when used out of position. Good luck!!! -FEDOR*"*
> ...


I'm sorry, I asked that question incorrectly - what I meant to ask was where you got the mogul/socket assembly.

Is it just removed from one of your horizontal reflectors, or was it purchased specifically to be hung vertically, which is kinda looks like - I don't believe that my sockets in my refletors look like that, but I'll be checking them shortly.


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## cazador (Mar 1, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> I'm sorry, I asked that question incorrectly - what I meant to ask was where you got the mogul/socket assembly.
> 
> Is it just removed from one of your horizontal reflectors, or was it purchased specifically to be hung vertically, which is kinda looks like - I don't believe that my sockets in my refletors look like that, but I'll be checking them shortly.


Bob, your socket is probable part of the reflector. I have some reflectors that aren't cooled that you can remove the socket that looks like DG's. or you can get them at the Hydro-stores. http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=Mogul+Base&cid=9018604858709132870&sa=title#p

this one is a bit pricey


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## Bob Smith (Mar 1, 2010)

cazador said:


> Bob, your socket is probable part of the reflector. I have some reflectors that aren't cooled that you can remove the socket that looks like DG's. or you can get them at the Hydro-stores. http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=Mogul+Base&cid=9018604858709132870&sa=title#p
> 
> this one is a bit pricey


Lol..........our versions of "pricey" are clearly different - was waiting for the link to load and thinking it was gonna be $150 or something.

Thanks for that though, my friend 

BTW, since no one needs to get into my garage for any upgrades, I'm starting up the upgrades/new system buildout pretty soon..........just an FYI, I'll be needing your assistance with the 240V wiring changeover (putting in a 24000BTU AC) 

<end threadjack>


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## cazador (Mar 1, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Lol..........our versions of "pricey" are clearly different - was waiting for the link to load and thinking it was gonna be $150 or something.
> 
> Thanks for that though, my friend
> 
> ...


Anytime my friend.


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## DaGambler (Mar 1, 2010)

*($19.95 plus shipping)*

http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=52206
.


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## Bob Smith (Mar 1, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> *($19.95 plus shipping)*
> 
> http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=52206
> .


Thank you, sir


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Mar 1, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> *One more week of wacking off branches that stray outside the cages ... or anything that creeps much higher than the cage top. After 14 days on 12/12 they'll stop vegging and start to focus on flower production - at which time i'll leave them alone. They've only got a 12" window of sway at the top ... other than that, they've got all the support that they'll need. I hope. *
> 
> *I'll try to keep each plant in its cage. I'd like to maintain a bit of a space between plants to allow for better light penetration. It may just be a fantasy ... but i'd like to pursue this 'cone of green' idea as much as i am able:*
> 
> ...


Very cool, I am looking forward to see how it works out. Looks great now man. I noticed on your other late flowering ladies that there are no large fans. Do you remove all the fans at the end for more light penetration to the buds?


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## DaGambler (Mar 1, 2010)

#1Raiderfan420 said:


> Very cool, I am looking forward to see how it works out. Looks great now man. I noticed on your other late flowering ladies that there are no large fans. Do you remove all the fans at the end for more light penetration to the buds?


*heheh, i wasn't gonna say anything since people seemed to assume they were only buds for a -good- reason ... but those girls were under a lot of stress, they had nutrient deficiencies and so i reset their bud growth with an intentional 3-day lights ON interuption, otherwise they would have finished but with very little actual weight. Not ideal, by any stretch, but they are finally starting to trichome out. The fan and lower leaves were lost from stress. All the other plants in that crop did well enough. I'm doing rez. changes every 2 weeks this time to avoid that problem. If you wait for the plants to "tell you" that they are hungry, some of them won't, they'll just stall in growth or flower and you'll have a hell of a time restarting them. 'Cuz when they are stressed enuf, it also triggers what i would call a 'suicide gene' - they just try to finish (die) as quickly as possible ... meaning they skip through whatever flower or trichome production they had planned or were capable of.*

*But i do thin the top 2/3 of the plants fan leaves at around week 5 for better light penetration and trichome production.*
*.*


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Mar 2, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> *heheh, i wasn't gonna say anything since people seemed to assume they were only buds for a -good- reason ... but those girls were under a lot of stress, they had nutrient deficiencies and so i reset their bud growth with an intentional 3-day lights ON interuption, otherwise they would have finished but with very little actual weight. Not ideal, by any stretch, but they are finally starting to trichome out. The fan and lower leaves were lost from stress. All the other plants in that crop did well enough. I'm doing rez. changes every 2 weeks this time to avoid that problem. If you wait for the plants to "tell you" that they are hungry, some of them won't, they'll just stall in growth or flower and you'll have a hell of a time restarting them. 'Cuz when they are stressed enuf, it also triggers what i would call a 'suicide gene' - they just try to finish (die) as quickly as possible ... meaning they skip through whatever flower or trichome production they had planned or were capable of.*
> 
> *But i do thin the top 2/3 of the plants fan leaves at around week 5 for better light penetration and trichome production.*
> *.*


Damn man, well I am glad you got them back on track. I asked about the thinnning, because there are so many different opinions, I try to get as many references as I can. Last run I left them all on and the bottom half were light green at harvest..lots of trichs, but not the density of the one's that received the direct light. This time I trimmed many large fans of the top 1/2 of the plants, but was thinking about next run taking all the big fans off around week 5 or 6. I am growing pk so it is a bushy bitch. I didin't know you could make them restart with the light interuption though. If I ever get in a situtation I ma give it a try.


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## pinner420 (Mar 8, 2010)

Just popped over and checked out the scene. Looks like you're roll'n. I like the notion of having liner for your turbo charged dwc system there. Reducing failure points is key will steel that for mine.


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## jimboob (Mar 31, 2010)

nice tattoo +re[


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## OregonMeds (Mar 31, 2010)

Suicide gene? Holy shit!


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## jjmd (Apr 15, 2010)

Hey G,
Long time no hear from ya. everything OK? hope the new setup is working out for you.


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## Bob Smith (May 19, 2010)

No word from him, huh? Hope all's okay.........


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## CaliKushSmoker (Aug 5, 2010)

hey man much luv on your op .. looks very nice.. i got my documents to do 99 in the state of CA. im getting alot of good ideas from your form..tanks...hey i had a question on your grow medium. what are you using ????.. oh and one other thing is it better to use 6 600 watts or 4 1000 watts lights??? thanks man for the info .. peace and happy growing.


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## MediMary (Jun 22, 2011)

when You get out of jail, lets us know how you are doing


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## MediMary (Jun 23, 2011)

No offense, but anyone reading this thread should realize posting youtube vids of your garden sure ain't very smart


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## shnkrmn (Jun 23, 2011)

And yet lots of peeps do just that . . .

For all we know, DG is still getting it dialed in somewhere, he just split the scene here. I hope so, anyway.


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## MediMary (Jun 23, 2011)

Im pretty sure he got popped.. why else would he not sign in for so long... i saw him on another site as well, he was asking questions about vertical lighting, then he never came back or logged on... doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jun 23, 2011)

Hey dude i just seen a picture of you on my computer under an ad lol. Its shows your face and says "stop criminals like these" way too funny lmao. It was an advertisement for FBI.


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## shnkrmn (Jun 23, 2011)

Ah well. I always thought his location was a little sketchy. Funny about the vertical lighting questions; he never could seem to stick to one plan or technique. 



MediMary said:


> Im pretty sure he got popped.. why else would he not sign in for so long... i saw him on another site as well, he was asking questions about vertical lighting, then he never came back or logged on... doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


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