# Info needed on SCROG setup



## deza (Apr 20, 2012)

I'm keen to scrog my next grow, question is do you buy the scrog screens or do you have to make it yourself? I'm not too good at DIY so yeah. And how does the screen sit above the plant what holds it up? Do u have to lst in this method? I'm planning on doing that also doing veg
My setup:

90cm x 90cm x 180cm tent

One plant ((GDP) and veg it for 10-12weeks
600watt cool tube 

Hydro using flood and drain to waste


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## Zoltan44x (Apr 21, 2012)

You can SCROG with or without LST. 
Secret Jardin has products for this purpose. 
http://www.secretjardin.com/~secretja/en/accessories-secretjardin/secretjardin-grow-accessories.html


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## Matchbox (Apr 21, 2012)

well you can make or buy it, generally any chicken wire with 2-3 inch holes will be good for ScrOG, you put it about 5-20 inches above plants, depending on height restrictions which it doesn't sound like you'll have with 180cm of height. So for your tent, put it high enough that you have enough space to put your hands under and move around so say 10-13 inches or so above the top of the pots...

I have some brilliant stuff if you have a look at my journal I didn't buy it, I found it in the garden where I used to live but I'm sure you can pick it up from pretty much any hardware store, don't know what it's sold as or what it would be called as such, but the holes are a good 2 x 2 inches and perfect for ScrOG.

The idea is you just let the plant grow with no additional training, though I like to top my plants for 4 main colas and tie the main stems down a few times so it gives a chance for all the 'undergrowth' to catch up and reach the screen at the same time as the main stems. The principle is, you let the plant grow through the screen a few inches then pull the stems back under the screen to the next square (or hole) along you don't need to do any tying the strength of the screen should hold plant growth under.

Tip: If your using chicken wire its a good idea to tie a weight to the center of the screen or put a screw in the floor and tie the middle of the screen to it just to hold it down as chicken wire isn't very structurally sound with the force of plants pushing up on it 

Tip: Try to fill out the screen anything from 50%-75% during VEG! and if in doubt flower a little earlier rather than later, as a very crowded canopy is less productive than a slightly looser one, eventually you'll get the timings bang on.

Do it right and you'll be scrogging for the rest of your life, if you like spending time with your plants, you'll be more than happy with the extra few grams - oz you'll get, I've pulled anything up to 3oZ a plant using my micro setup and some dodgy CFL's with a VERY underfilled canopy (could have fully filled the screen in hindsight and probably gotten 4-6 oz from 1 plant) now I have a hps I'm hoping to double the 3 oz mark, touch wood XD

Stay Frosty!


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## lighting (Apr 21, 2012)

to really do a proper scrog you should actually train your plant so LST'ng and fimming , super cropping is in order to make a bushy plant vegging is really KEy to achieving yields in any plant 

now with A scrog table thats what it is a table you here lots of people mentioning chicken wire , plastic fence stuff etc 
in my opinion thats stupid you should use string reason i say this is your buds will grow into that screen and when harvest time comes its a gong show trying to harvest plant that buds grew into metal screen , or plastic screen is only going to damage your bud as your going to need to cut it up 
by useing string you can easily cut string and pull it thru buds with less damage to buds 
Most scroggers don;t keep a even canopy or are still learning about the stretch period in flower and what happens is when there in flower the scrog table ends up being more of a support rather then having a even canopy and all buds at screeen height


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## deza (Apr 21, 2012)

So how exactly do I perfect it... I might get every top through the screen during veg and fill out the screen then once I put into flower it could spiral out and not be even anymore what's the trick?


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## deza (Apr 21, 2012)

Thanks again guys for the helpful info I really want to scrog my next grow and get a pound off 1 plant


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## A.Green.Monster (Apr 21, 2012)

My recommendation would be to make a screen out of twine and eye loops. Use a grid pattern to form 1-1/2 inch squares. The benefit to this is that you can cut the twine and pull it out at the end, and getting the plant out of a smaller area will be much easier.


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## lighting (Apr 21, 2012)

trial and error know the strain your growing know the stretch phase first week in flower you need to super crop to help stopping the stretch canopy managment is the key also having a adjustable scrog table thats a plus as your in flower you can raise your table


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## deza (Apr 21, 2012)

All I want to do is bend the main stem by tie ing it down so the lower branches can reach the screen at the same time as the tip of the main stem along with the other branches. Then flower from there and raise the net and adjust as they stretch?

How much of the branch should be above the net? During flower? Half the branch or just the tops?


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## Matchbox (Apr 21, 2012)

you can do it with LST but you won't fill as much of the screen and it wont be as efficient. The point of topping, it's basically a necessity, to get enough branching to actually fill the screen... you want to fill the screen about 60% or so in VEG tuck under when the branches reach about an inch or 2 above the screen or when they're long enough to reach the next hole along.

Ideally once the screen is 60% or so full you then switch to 12/12 and keep pulling the branches down and under during the stretch phase (1st 2-3 weeks of flower) and then everything that then grows above the screen should just be bud! They usually crown off at about 5 inches above the screen at the end of flower depending on strain so this isn't an exact figure.

Once your screen is fixed (about 10+ inches above the canopy) you don't really or shouldn't really need to adjust it as it's supposed to be a fixed screen, it just depends on your situation adjustable can be handy but imo isn't best (but I do grow micro so that's my situation). A true ScrOG will look like a forest of just buds above the screen 

It looks like what lighting has done (correct me if I'm wrong) is use the screen to train growth to a particular area and during the flower stretch just let them grow through, this imo is just as productive as my method, it's only the aesthetics of it, he gets large colas but slightly less of them I get a whole load of small 3-5 inch nugs.



To get your timing perfect it's going to take a few grows and like lighting said trial and error.



lighting said:


> to really do a proper scrog you should actually train your plant so LST'ng and fimming , super cropping is in order to make a bushy plant vegging is really KEy to achieving yields in any plant
> 
> now with A scrog table thats what it is a table you here lots of people mentioning chicken wire , plastic fence stuff etc
> in my opinion thats stupid you should use string reason i say this is your buds will grow into that screen and when harvest time comes its a gong show trying to harvest plant that buds grew into metal screen , or plastic screen is only going to damage your bud as your going to need to cut it up
> ...


Twine is a good idea, my scrog is dished so its more practical to have a solid piece of metal  plus I harvest a few branches at a time, I'm not bothered about how long it takes and pull the buds up through the screen not down so my buds don't get damaged in the slightest as I trim my undergrowth. I try to keep a very even canopy where I can (if I run out of space on said screen 'cause of my cab size issues, I just get a few larger colas at the back, no biggy 

And I'm not sure if supercropping during flower is a good idea, generally anything that involves heavily stressing the plant should be done at least a week or 2 before switching over to 12/12 as they do need time to recover and doing it in flower takes up flowering time to recover something that would have healed/recovered a lot better/quicker in veg. Just my 2 pence on that idea  how does it work for you, have you done comparisons doing it in veg and another plant/grow supercropping in flower?



deza said:


> Thanks again guys for the helpful info I really want to scrog my next grow and get a pound off 1 plant


One thing I'll say, off of 1 plant... that's a bit of an overshot for your first ScrOG imo unless your willing to put in a LOT of veg time to compensate for the extra weight, bigger roots bigger fruits as they say XD


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## lighting (Apr 21, 2012)

what i do is when i transplantmy cutting into 12" pot i transplant them at a angle and tie to other side once i get a few inches of growth i tie it over mean time i fim super crop to try to maintain a even canopy once plant has circled my pot its time to set them free and transplant into larger container meantime still implementing my super cropping and fimming eventually i get my 5 foot tall and wide plants then i flip to flower first week and a half i will still supercrop fighting my stretch phase my scrog squares are 4 " x 4" square giving me enough opening to allow big buds to form i still had buds form inbetwen my string and growing thru it thats why useing twine is better then chicken mesh etc cause when you go to harvest you just cut string push it carfully thru buds that grown thru them


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## Matchbox (Apr 21, 2012)

that's a lot of veg time lol but the results speak for themselves, wish I had enough space for that, good job XD


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## deza (Apr 22, 2012)

Matchbox and lighting thank you for ur excellent input I'll be following your advice


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## deza (Apr 22, 2012)

When you said "topping is key" do you mean to top the main cola top after its grown through the screen during veg so it allows the rest of the branches to catch up to the screen and be of equal height?

And just keep topping the plant where it's growing too much to stabilize an even canopy?


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## Matchbox (Apr 22, 2012)

Personally I only top once, during veg, to get 4 main tops, it's not a cola until it starts to grow bud it's just a main stem  doesn't matter if it's grown through the screen or not and you get an even canopy by continually tucking the branches under the screen as they grow through, like the pics I posted (with a fixed screen) I suppose it's kinda similar if you have a moveable screen too it just spaces them out a bit.

By doing this your spacing out the main tops at 90* to the soil which arranges hormones (auxins if your being scientific lol) to make all the 'sub stems' think they're main ones and they shoot up anyway, you then keep tucking these down and along etc as you do with the main stems, the main stems are usually always ahead of the lower stems as far as the screen holes are concerned so you've always got space to put them  you'll see as you go...

You can top many times, though it's not recommended that you do it more than 3 -4 times usually, so if you top for 4 colas you can then top each one of them once but this method requires more and more veg time in my experience when the screen can easily fill just topping once. 

Check this thread for how to top - https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/151706-uncle-bens-topping-technique-get.html

Also if you want to learn more about ScrOG in a more formal (better worded than I can put at the moment : ) I always use it for reference just because it's an interesting read... and I mean READ lol but it's really good!

Check this thread out - https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/172536-good-scrog-bible.html

If your worried about topping you can try your first ScrOG with LST like you wanted, to get a feel for the ScrOG method and the training, how the plants respond etc 'sup to you though, I love trying new things and messing with my girls


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## deza (Apr 22, 2012)

Thanks for the link matchbox I will check them out tonight when I have some time n the kids r asleep.
Im planning on vegging for 12weeks. That too long?

o during veg when the branches go through the screen I just tuck them back under and move them along to the next available space in the screen until its 70% full? I will lst the main stem by tying it down also


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## deza (Apr 23, 2012)

And the main stem has to be lst at 90 degrees so they lower branches grow faster?


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## Matchbox (Apr 23, 2012)

60-70% full but if in doubt flower earlier as I said before a smaller canopy will be more productive than a really overgrown one  because obviously different strains stretch different amounts in the 1st few weeks of flower and beyond!

Are you topping or just trying to fill the screen with LST? either way whatever your comfortable with.

Yep the 90* business, it's not an exact figure more of a give or take a few degrees kinda deal 

Last thing 12 weeks is a lot of veg but essentially it won't do your plants any harm as you can technically veg them for years and years. Though if vegging that long you might want to consider pot size as the roots will go mental and they may get pot bound unless you have hempy buckets (which are amazing XD) air-pots or smart pots that air prune the roots. Judge it by eye it usually takes my girls 6-8 weeks of veg to fill the screen 60% and that's with the screen 5-6 inches above the top of the pot.


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## deza (Apr 23, 2012)

Thanks matchbox! Yes I will be topping once only, and I'm trying to fill the screen, why do you ask?
But when should I top? Once the screen is about 40% full?

It will be grown in coco but in a very big pot so there's enough room for all roots.
Basically I'm doin this for even siZed nugs and more yield.


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## Matchbox (Apr 23, 2012)

deza said:


> Thanks matchbox! Yes I will be topping once only, and I'm trying to fill the screen, why do you ask?
> But when should I top? Once the screen is about 40% full?
> 
> It will be grown in coco but in a very big pot so there's enough room for all roots.
> Basically I'm doin this for even siZed nugs and more yield.


I meant did you want to fill the screen with LST and not topping - or topping, which you just answered  LST you won't fill the whole screen any time soon in my opinion (maybe in the 12 weeks though) do you know what topping is?

It's cutting the top off of the plant to convince the side shoots they are main stems by re-arranging hormones. You do it just above the 2nd true node (excluding the cotelydons, lil round water leaves) so no you do it when the plant is still comparatively young, mine are usually old enough at 4-6 weeks and I clone the bit I chopped off (check the link 1st as not all strains are the same do it by the correct node). The side shoots then act like main stems and they grow up to the screen and fill it.

here's the correct excerpt:

*Selecting the point for topping to get 4 main colas - 

To get 4 main colas, let your seedling or cutting (clone) grow to about 5-6 nodes and pinch out (cut) the stem just above the 2nd true node. The node where the cotyledons attach doesn't count. The result will be a redistribution of the auxins and other hormones that normally collect in the tissue of the terminal leader's tip. These ho moans will be redistributed to dormant buds that reside in the nodal axis where the leaf petiole attaches to the "trunk", below the cut. The new foliar output response will be quick (within 24 hrs., see photo below) if you have a healthy growing seedling and will be your future main colas - 4 instead of the usual 1:







**Here's a photo of the same plant about 8 weeks into flowering. The plant is about 42" tall, has 4 main colas with an abundance of large, healthy fan leaves.











This is an indoor shot just prior to harvest showing the colas bulking up quite nicely. Notice how the weight of the heavy colas is naturally pulling them apart, which opens the plant up so that light can penetrate the interior of the canopy. This is the same principle used by fruit orchard managers who create an open vase profile for their trees in order to increase production. This profile also has a side benefit of providing good interior air movement which reduces fungal/rot pressures.







The plant after harvest showing the branching scaffold and dominant 4 main cola "trunks", opposing nodes one right above the other. Smaller secondary branches also provided good bud production. This plant yielded over 10 oz of cured bud. 








(Not my work I copied and pasted this from uncle bens thread)*


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## deza (Apr 23, 2012)

Thanks for that so I guess I'll have to veg and lst. I understand the topping process so should I top and fill screen along with lst or just lst? And if I veg for 10-12weeks when should I top?


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## Matchbox (Apr 23, 2012)

deza said:


> Thanks for that so I guess I'll have to veg and lst. I understand the topping process so should I top and fill screen along with lst or just lst? And if I veg for 10-12weeks when should I top?


Well if you read the except you top just above the 2nd true node (the water leaves don't count as node 1) which is strain, method, environment dependent on how fast your plant grows, not particularly on how many weeks, generally week 3-6 but thats solely in my experience with my plants in my setup.

Just because if you let it go say 8 weeks and the plant is huge, you then decide oh yeah let's top it (at the second node, thats waaay down near the base), that's going to be a lot of wasted energy (not to mention time) the plant has used in building the 1 main stem when that time could have been used developing those 4 main stems.

Usually you use LST in combination with topping anyway so top first then tie the 4 side branches down roughly 90* to the soil, so the main stems grow kind of like a '+' shape

I generally LST my 4 main cola's (after topping) to the edge of the pot and the rest of the training is done with the screen in the way we've described previously


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## deza (Apr 23, 2012)

Matchbox sometimes I wish I had a neighbor like u to call over and show me first hand lol.
I know how to top for two colas but 4 colas? I'm having trouble trying to find out what the second node looks like so I can get the + and 4 main branches.

Do you know any videos I can lean this from? I learn soo much easier practical lessons than theory lol. I get confused when I read into things


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## Matchbox (Apr 24, 2012)

deza said:


> Matchbox sometimes I wish I had a neighbor like u to call over and show me first hand lol.
> I know how to top for two colas but 4 colas? I'm having trouble trying to find out what the second node looks like so I can get the + and 4 main branches.
> 
> Do you know any videos I can lean this from? I learn soo much easier practical lessons than theory lol. I get confused when I read into things


yeah sometimes it is easier to be shown things, I learn very visually so pictures are fine so long as they back up some text, but I have a mate who lives nearby that I'm now on par with as far as skill and we just exchange techniques and that 

*




*

this is how you top for 4 cola's...
you know where the first set of leaves come out with 3 blades? this is node 1.
where the first 5 bladed leaves come out, this is node 2.

you see the main stem in this pic this is where you chop, cut the main stem ONLY, just above node 2.

It's like topping for 2 colas just you cut at the next leaf set (or node) up.

As for videos just go on youtube and search, how to top.


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## scroglodyte (Apr 24, 2012)

i feel as though any training pre-screen height is just more growth slow-down. get to your screen fast, with supple new growth, and begin ScrOG'n. while others are waiting for topped/LST'd plants to bounce back, you will be weaving your magic. it really comes down to what you enjoy. you'll develop your own style.


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## Matchbox (Apr 24, 2012)

scroglodyte said:


> i feel as though any training pre-screen height is just more growth slow-down. get to your screen fast, with supple new growth, and begin ScrOG'n. while others are waiting for topped/LST'd plants to bounce back, you will be weaving your magic. it really comes down to what you enjoy. you'll develop your own style.


good point, but if you don't know what you enjoy yet, you gotta try everything, I did anyway XD


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## bigpimpindaddy23 (Apr 24, 2012)

all my scrogs start with a topping or super crop then string then tie down then when it cant be tie down i put a pice of 2x3 wire 2'x2'( if need be i have holes
around the rim of my bucket to tie it to ) on top just as it starts flowering and tie back tops to keep it even


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## deza (Apr 24, 2012)

Thanks for that explanation matchbox I'm going to follow it for sure and jump on YouTube for topping techniques


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## deza (Apr 24, 2012)

Matchbox said:


> yeah sometimes it is easier to be shown things, I learn very visually so pictures are fine so long as they back up some text, but I have a mate who lives nearby that I'm now on par with as far as skill and we just exchange techniques and that
> 
> *
> 
> ...


So to get 4 main colas I have to cut the main stem itself that's attached to the 1nd node aka the top crown?
which in turn will make the lower two nodes or 5bladed leaves to four branches?


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## Matchbox (Apr 24, 2012)

deza said:


> So to get 4 main colas I have to cut the main stem itself that's attached to the 1nd node aka the top crown?
> which in turn will make the lower two nodes or 5bladed leaves to four branches?


yes chop the main stem as you would for 2 colas just an extra node up (as per the photo) and the side shoots will get the extra hormones and take off (turning into the 4 main branches)


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## deza (Apr 24, 2012)

Matchbox said:


> yes chop the main stem as you would for 2 colas just an extra node up (as per the photo) and the side shoots will get the extra hormones and take off (turning into the 4 main branches)


So the earlier I do this the better yeah? Should do it around week 5 if I plan to veg for 10?


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## Matchbox (Apr 25, 2012)

Generally speaking yes, don't do it by weeks grown, unless you want a bigger top to clone. Do it basically a week after the 2nd true node has developed, some people top as soon as the 2nd node develops with good success too but it's risky with the fragile baby side shoots imo.


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