# Don't legalize Weed!



## NoizeForMasses (Feb 10, 2012)

In my honest opinion, I say we shouldn't legalize, BUT
DECRIMINALIZE. Think about all the tobacco companies that would get involved and turn something so harmless into something so harmful. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M58kGCQLwxU


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## Micobfsb (Feb 10, 2012)

So your thinking legal to grow, but not legal to sell?


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## Micobfsb (Feb 10, 2012)

Lately Ive been thinking, its my right to put whatever I want in my body, but I dont think society can handle drugs(hard drugs).


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## Micobfsb (Feb 10, 2012)

Hmm, but if we decriminalize, so its legal to have, but not legal, and not legal to sell, dont we still have the black market?


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## 'ome Grown (Feb 10, 2012)

its decriminalised here in South Australia. You get a $300 fine for possession, just like a speeding ticket. And as you guessed the black market is alive and kicking.


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## BA142 (Feb 10, 2012)

We have something on the ballot in November....this is a little blip



> Heres the twist: these local initiatives wont just include a lowest law-enforcement priority measure. They will also make it* illegal for a city to cooperate with federal authorities* in the prosecution of cannabis-related crimes. Whats more, such a law is *legally binding*.


so that feds can't fuck with us in WA if we pass this


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## Micobfsb (Feb 11, 2012)

Until they get a subpeana?


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## desert dude (Feb 11, 2012)

NoizeForMasses said:


> In my honest opinion, I say we shouldn't legalize, BUT
> DECRIMINALIZE. Think about all the tobacco companies that would get involved and turn something so harmless into something so harmful.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M58kGCQLwxU


How would big companies make cannabis harmful?


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## desert dude (Feb 11, 2012)

NoizeForMasses said:


> In my honest opinion, I say we shouldn't legalize, BUT
> DECRIMINALIZE. Think about all the tobacco companies that would get involved and turn something so harmless into something so harmful.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M58kGCQLwxU


Decriminalization is a terrible idea. 

It preserves the worst of the drug war while only marginally benefiting oridnary citizens, and it distracts from the most important issue for citizens, the simple freedom of owning your own body. If you can be fined and hassled for ingesting a harmless substance, then you have no freedom at all.


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## Rtazmann (Feb 12, 2012)

Probably like they've done to cigs,,,desert dude,,,,putting additives in it to cut the thc down.....they will figure out something to screw it up....


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## DST (Feb 12, 2012)

I agree with Desert dude.

Everyone is so quick to talk about Tobacco companies when discussing legalisation.

Being a resident of the Netherlands I can tell you decriminalisation brings a whole load of difficulties with it. And yes, things still stay in the hands of criminlas, and police still raid large grow operations.

Why wouldn't legliasing weed be like the Wine market for example? Just like alcohol there is a demand for cheap alcohol, and there will be a demand for cheap weed, but there will also still remain a market for high class, organically grown, weed. In my utopia, there will be small MJ chateau's, just like there is small Wine houses.

People who do not want it legalised in my mind do not want their current status quo changed (caregivers, gorwers who make a lot of money growing weed, which is fairly standard for people, we just don't like too much change! But I think the medical MJ scene is great, but there is certainly a non Medical scene that needs to be considered as well. It is our right to get high as we please imo.


desert dude said:


> Decriminalization is a terrible idea.
> 
> It preserves the worst of the drug war while only marginally benefiting oridnary citizens, and it distracts from the most important issue for citizens, the simple freedom of owning your own body. If you can be fined and hassled for ingesting a harmless substance, then you have no freedom at all.


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## loophole68 (Feb 12, 2012)

Firms will always want profit maximization, they dont give a rats ass bt welfare or or stuff like that.


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## desert dude (Feb 12, 2012)

Rtazmann said:


> Probably like they've done to cigs,,,desert dude,,,,putting additives in it to cut the thc down.....they will figure out something to screw it up....


In a free market, you get to choose what you buy and consume. I can only foresee good things happening with competition from producers.


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## InCognition (Feb 13, 2012)

Decriminalization is a middle ground. You really can't have a successful middle ground when it comes to the prohibition of many substances. You would really have to both legalize and decriminalize.

It's arguable that there is a successful middle ground with alcohol in regards to private production, but alcohol is a different animal than a plant so they should be addressed differently when it comes to decriminalization/legalization.


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## dank smoker420 (Mar 23, 2012)

if it is decriminalized the government cannot make any money off of it. no money for the government no change in the law. the government is only about money. and making it


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## CaliBoy93 (Mar 23, 2012)

Agreed. 
















 Kush Lovers UNITE


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## bloodlocust (Mar 31, 2012)

Micobfsb said:


> Lately Ive been thinking, its my right to put whatever I want in my body, but I dont think society can handle drugs(hard drugs).



It's your god-given right to put whatever you want in your body HOWEVER it is subject to what kind of effect you will have on other people while you live near them. For example streets full of junkies does not inspire confidence.

You are a free man up to a point....

And that point is if your behaviour can spill over and harm other people in society. For example lets look at a small tribe of people in the jungle. They have laws too. Laws are required when humans share territory.

Animal kingdom? yes they have laws as well - and laws that change over time based on territory, behaviour, survival of the species and so on. Ours just happen to be written down and discussed 

In the case of weed, I think it should be fully legal and available for purchase over the counter just like alcohol or cigarettes. I think that they should have testing kits for work and for drivers to ensure that smoking is restricted to the home. In fact, smoking in general should not be allowed in public except for parks or designated areas.

We don't have to force our love of pot on other people. We need to be smart about it. Prove we're smart - and people will calm down about weed murdering babies or whatever.

I'm a fairly smart person - I program games for a living, and I'm a complete and utter pot head. I love my weed, but I wouldn't dream of exposing other people, much less families and children to the harsh smell of skunk


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## desert dude (Apr 1, 2012)

bloodlocust said:


> It's your god-given right to put whatever you want in your body HOWEVER it is subject to what kind of effect you will have on other people while you live near them. For example streets full of junkies does not inspire confidence.
> 
> You are a free man up to a point....
> 
> ...


Yeah, I agree.


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## Yamabushi (Apr 1, 2012)

Weed should be legal for a whole host of reasons... which most of you are already aware of and most likely agree with.

However, if it were legal it would be far less profitable to grow it. So hey... either way I'm happy! If you're in the states though or any other country that sends people to prison just for a few plants you have my deepest sympathy!


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## Broccoli Rob (Apr 3, 2012)

Rtazmann said:


> Probably like they've done to cigs,,,desert dude,,,,putting additives in it to cut the thc down.....they will figure out something to screw it up....


Truesay....However, weed will never be legalized because the U.S. government has no way to tax you if you grow your own. You cant grow your own cigarettes and you cant make your own beer....well I suppose you could but most wouldnt. Whats the incentive for them to legalize it? They would actually lose money on that.


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## richinweed (Apr 3, 2012)

The black market works wonders for big brother,,,if not ,why then do they lump weed in with other drugs and market it as a danger to grow and that its a ghetto problem promoting gun crime......because the minut they can get just one story that 1 person died of pot overdose(choked on coockie)or pot related shootings they can keep up the facade of it bieng something bad and mysterious and something ..lets say cultural....they all lie, they are to the most part brainwashed sheeple full of sheeple shit!..........and they believe they are superior than us,,if they didnt then why try cram thier morals down our/my throut......no better than the gihad squads of the middle east....or the morality cops of the crusades....FUCK THE POLITICAL RIGHT LEFT AND ALL OF-EM INBATWEEN........globalist scum!


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## ford442 (Apr 3, 2012)

Broccoli Rob said:


> Truesay....However, weed will never be legalized because the U.S. government has no way to tax you if you grow your own. You cant grow your own cigarettes and you cant make your own beer....well I suppose you could but most wouldnt. Whats the incentive for them to legalize it? They would actually lose money on that.


they would gain money - they can stop paying for patrol and incarceration and start raking in tax money just like they do with cigs and alcohol. huge taxes and licensing fees. you can grow your own cigs and brew you own beer, just not for profit unless you are licensed by the state.


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## Ernst (Apr 5, 2012)

desert dude said:


> Decriminalization is a terrible idea.
> 
> It preserves the worst of the drug war while only marginally benefiting oridnary citizens, and it distracts from the most important issue for citizens, the simple freedom of owning your own body. If you can be fined and hassled for ingesting a harmless substance, then you have no freedom at all.


Agree...

There will always be trade but we should be free to grow our own without punishment.

This Money First Medical effort is getting an federal enema.. Just look at Oaksterdam U..


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## ford442 (Apr 5, 2012)

i think that many people still think of pot like crack or heroin - as a dangerous substance with addictive potential which should never be in the presence of the innocent.. then when we put the facts in front of them they will say 'no thank you' and walk away..

once more people start to see cannabis as a useful and harmless crop - then we will see proper regulated trade everywhere.. 

i am just saying - we cannot have the oppression and the fear without the lies - there is no logical reason not to regulate cannabis..


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## colonuggs (Apr 5, 2012)

free the weed for everyone...its a plant...grow it, sell it, smoke it, fuck it.... 

only pepole who want to make $$$ want it regulated and controlled by the government


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## ford442 (Apr 5, 2012)

colonuggs said:


> free the weed for everyone...its a plant...grow it, sell it, smoke it, fuck it....
> 
> only pepole who want to make $$$ want it regulated and controlled by the government


there is no other way to do it.. there are no goods that can not be subject to the laws of any given country - it is a commodity like any other.. i do not want to make money from pot - i want to be free to grow and to buy and to see everyone else do the same without being raped by the system..


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## Ernst (Apr 5, 2012)

ford442 said:


> i think that many people still think of pot like crack or heroin - as a dangerous substance with addictive potential which should never be in the presence of the innocent.. then when we put the facts in front of them they will say 'no thank you' and walk away..
> 
> once more people start to see cannabis as a useful and harmless crop - then we will see proper regulated trade everywhere..
> 
> i am just saying - we cannot have the oppression and the fear without the lies - there is no logical reason not to regulate cannabis..


Oh, I'm sure there are complex dynamics.


I had a clever paragraph too.

So what's new here? Seems same-old.


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## ford442 (Apr 6, 2012)

i am hopeful since there are like 10 states with regulation on the ballot this year!! that is a lot more support in my mind.. and if even one or two of these states passes it then there will some great things happening next year - proper scientific studies - proper examples of regulation working well in the US..!


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## agent4200 (Apr 6, 2012)

NoizeForMasses said:


> In my honest opinion, I say we shouldn't legalize, BUT
> DECRIMINALIZE. Think about all the tobacco companies that would get involved and turn something so harmless into something so harmful.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M58kGCQLwxU


I like the Oregon model OMMP Card program or the Oregon Medical Marijuana Program..gives the patients and the growers enough room to cultivate and medicate with very little official interference, getting your card is easy as long as you have a qualifying condition, mine is chronic back pain due to an old injury, got doctors note and then saw the doctor athttp://www.ommpcard.com
in Eugene OR area and also down in Ashland too. As for legal vs non legal, these are all steps along a longer road to freedom, i agree that if it is fully legal yeah the tobacco or liqour companies could get involved and ruin it


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## ford442 (Apr 6, 2012)

i think that Marlborro and Camel can make all the crap processed weed they want - i just won't smoke it and neither will you.. but, maybe if it gets people off of tobacco then more power to them..!


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## Ernst (Apr 6, 2012)

ford442 said:


> i am hopeful since there are like 10 states with regulation on the ballot this year!! that is a lot more support in my mind.. and if even one or two of these states passes it then there will some great things happening next year - proper scientific studies - proper examples of regulation working well in the US..!



Yep, Slowly it will equalize out. I guess what we are gaining is cultural normalization?

Heh.. we sure won't have a thing if Mitt Romney gets in office.. God's wrath and the belief the earth is 5000 years old are required to be a mormon.

Magic Underware too.. My bad. 

Everyone is goofy. It's just what brand of goofy is considered correct.


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## ipearl.blunts (Apr 16, 2012)

NoizeForMasses said:


> In my honest opinion, I say we shouldn't legalize, BUT
> DECRIMINALIZE. Think about all the tobacco companies that would get involved and turn something so harmless into something so harmful.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M58kGCQLwxU


Never thought about it like that,, and I do agree with you on some points,, but, I still think it should be legalized because, 1) Prison BUDgets will dramatically decrease, and a lot of the homies will get out. 2) Hemp can be used as a cheap and natural resource for countless things, 3) Reason 1 and 2 combined will ultimately lead to America getting out of debt, and REALLY become the greatest country in the world. 4) Not to mention the medicinal purposes for all 50 states instead of just 13 or 14. 5) Lastly (and certainly least important in my book) it will (might) cripple the Mexican Drug Cartel, and other Country's would follow suit and Legalize it as well.


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## Nothingreallymatters (Apr 26, 2012)

Decriminalization is the way to grow.

Think about the tax, shit they'll put in it, and on top of that, dealers will be out of business. If legal.

If it's decriminalized, to the point where it's as harmfull as walking around with poison ivy in a bag.

If a cop catches you selling poison ivy. Would you get busted? No.. Why not? It's a plant isn't it!!!!
Have you smoked poison ivy? If you got high from it, would they make it illegal?

Stop being dumb. We just want it to be left alone!! Legalizing would just put it in the governments hand. And they will screw you.
Just like they do with everything else..


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## MacGuyver4.2.0 (Apr 26, 2012)

Nothingreallymatters said:


> Decriminalization is the way to grow.
> 
> Think about the tax, shit they'll put in it, and on top of that, dealers will be out of business. If legal.
> 
> ...


The government already has their 'hand in it'. It's a naturally occuring plant that has many wonderful medical benefits, and SHOULD NOT be controlled by the government or big pharma (even though the U.S. Government has at least one patent on it).

If it is made legal once and for all that will take away not only the criminal and trafficking side, but also ability for big pharma to do much more harm. By giving the *people* the ability to make thier OWN choice about whether they will use it or not, is true freedom. Decrim is not enough. Aloe Vera is a natural plant with sunburn soothing properties but no law exists saying you cannot make your own ointment from it or goto the pharmacy and buy a bottle of it that pharma made. That's what real choices are all about...YOU making the decision what YOU are going to do to YOUR body. Hemp also needs to be legalized, like right now.

And the only people I have seen whining about legalization are either dealers or dispensary owners, because they have the most to lose...their market. *C'est la vie*


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## ford442 (Apr 27, 2012)

but dispensary owners should be the connoisseur coffee house owners of tomorrow!
i would love recreational use to come out into the light and that really needs there to be stores and not just roaming thieves and pedophiles.. once there are stores then anyone who was afraid to smoke before can choose to discreetly and freely at their own discretion.. i imagine that there are a lot of people who would love a joint, but they don't want to go down to the local tattooed mexican for a shitty dime bag and risk getting caught, etc.. and once there are stores then we can have expert growers growing as much as they can legally for sale without fear.. pretty soon the price will drop, the cartels will disappear, and weed will no longer be worth breaking into a person's home to steal..


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## lagarrettBLUNT (Apr 27, 2012)

desert dude said:


> Decriminalization is a terrible idea.
> 
> It preserves the worst of the drug war while only marginally benefiting oridnary citizens, and it distracts from the most important issue for citizens, the simple freedom of owning your own body. If you can be fined and hassled for ingesting a harmless substance, then you have no freedom at all.


lol thats the reason all that bullshit in cali just happened. as long as they decrim in states and not legalize on a federal level the feds can always overrule the state because by fed law cannabis is illegal and probably always will be.


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## ford442 (Apr 27, 2012)

I am for people growing for profit until i see a hoard of automatic weaponry in their homes..


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## ford442 (Apr 27, 2012)

i don't think that anyone should have ever lost their lives over weed.. my theory is that if we do it right then no one will need to die..
you cannot protect a criminal enterprise with brutal firepower, it is too dangerous.. the very existence of those militia style weapons is illegal for a reason..


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## Ernst (Apr 27, 2012)

Let me ask this.

If the Federal government can regulate any exchange of cannabis , and it can, what if the state allows growing for personal consumption only.

Is that the way to crack open the tomb of cannabis prohibition?

Is the true path and the light to follow to legalize without commerce language first?

I mean can the feds really stop a person who has medical in California for example from growing it? Will that hold true for everyone if it is not commercial?

Think about that!

Profit Motive is not legalization!


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## Nothingreallymatters (Apr 27, 2012)

ford442 said:


> i don't think that anyone should have ever lost their lives over weed.. my theory is that if we do it right then no one will need to die..
> you cannot protect a criminal enterprise with brutal firepower, it is too dangerous.. the very existence of those militia style weapons is illegal for a reason..




Well they have. If it's decriminalized then no one would have to brake down a door and kill someone just for there crop in the basement.
Because it will be everywhere!!! Everyone will grow it.
And I hate to break it to ya buddy but we have been using brutal firepower to get what we want since the beginnin of time, it's in human nature. Not everyone can smoke a bowl and give peace a chance


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## Nothingreallymatters (Apr 27, 2012)

Ernst said:


> Let me ask this.
> 
> If the Federal government can regulate any exchange of cannabis , and it can, what if the state allows growing for personal consumption only.
> 
> ...




If the USA let's you grow cannabis (which is looked at as a very hard drug) then what's from stopping everyone else from not puttin a meth lab in there house? Hey, it's "medicine" isn't it?


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## ford442 (Apr 27, 2012)

what about in the inner city? people will just grow it and give it away out of the goodness of their own hearts? there will still be gangs and street dealers involved i guarantee - just like with alcohol prohibition - we saw that the big problems are the organized crime and the cops themselves during Al Capone's day.. i think that we need weed stores just like we need liquor stores..


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## ford442 (Apr 27, 2012)

i personally draw a big distinction between pot and meth.. meth is physically addictive, lethal, dangerous to produce and causes psychosis.. 
you will find very few uses for medical methamphetamine in today's pharmacology and there will never be a majority that says recreational meth should be legal..


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## Ernst (Apr 27, 2012)

The base or shall I say the foundation of Liberty is Freedom.

The arguments here have the gravity of profit motive. Please take a moment to reread the replys.

So what if Innercity people grow weed and it is everywhere. 

I know Richard Lee was worried about that since what good is having a Store if weed if free but yet pushing "decrim" or some sort of half-way measures FAIL all the [email protected]!

wake up bitches!


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## ford442 (Apr 27, 2012)

i am just saying that out here in the rural areas we could grow lots of dope, but it is harder in the city to have any kind of patch of land - who is going to build hundreds of indoor grows just to give it away? everyone needs a way to get access to marijuana and i think it should be as safe as possible.. we want to put a good face on legalization for the rest of the world right?


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## Ernst (Apr 27, 2012)

Look the bottom line here is that we cannot rally a cry of Freedom about Cannabis (weed) Not even on a site for [email protected]

It's pathetic to say the least.


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## ford442 (Apr 27, 2012)

i personally would not care if there were no restrictions at all.. i wish that it grew out of every crack in the pavement and that 5 year olds played with it like candy.. i just keep trying to sell a form a legalization that everyone will vote for - even grandpa Osmond..


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## Ernst (Apr 27, 2012)

Dude.. Look at what is on the Ballot for Weed in California because of trying to bend to every political wish. NOTHING!

Cannabis Liberty begins with Cannabis Freedom for all! We cannot compromise before we fight! Think about it..
Would The Germans and the Allies have talked about not fighting on D-Day?

We are Wimps friend.. Fools to the Nth-Degree!


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## ford442 (Apr 27, 2012)

you are the one who said that decrim would mean that everyone has enough.. i said that there will not be people growing for everyone.. maybe when recreational use is regulated then patients can have weed grown for them for free..


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## Ernst (Apr 27, 2012)

ford442 said:


> you are the one who said that decrim would mean that everyone has enough.. i said that there will not be people growing for everyone.. maybe when recreational use is regulated then patients can have weed grown for them for free..


No I am not what you say.

I have *NEVER* been in favor of Decrim. I have kissed up-to the efforts -that be but even in my International-Cannbis.com days I challenged prop-19 so much so I was _Persona non grata.

I have lent support to the most likely to succeed but look now!!!! Who is coming to our aid in FAILURE for 2012?

No One if we don't.. Get it?


_


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## Ernst (Apr 27, 2012)

Nothingreallymatters said:


> Nothing is free!!! Get you're fucking head out of you're ass nothing in life is free!!!!!


Dude? 

What is your point in relatoionship to the conversation? Are you talking about cannabis as in the plant grows under the sun and provides us weed if left alone free or are you "ass-king" if your stash you pimp is discount because it sucks ass?


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## Nothingreallymatters (Apr 27, 2012)

Ernst said:


> Dude?
> 
> What is your point in relatoionship to the conversation? Are you talking about cannabis as in the plant grows under the sun and provides us weed if left alone free or are you "ass-king" if your stash you pimp is discount because it sucks ass?




I'd actually have to say a little bit of both..
Ass king for sure because it does suck that the government wants to take even more money away from Americans (if it's legal)
I want it to be free as in; you can walk down the street smokin a blunt and not get you're ass cracked. Because you sure as fuck can with a cigarette? IF it's legal the taxes will go up, and it will not be free. We are all modern slaves. The more you say we want, the more the government will say no, then, when we least expect it, it will (maybe) be legal, and screw us over. They'll turn around and say, hey you asked for it.
When we voted for mj to be legal. We won!!! 56% on our side!!! You know what the government said? No, still no. And that was it. You call that freedom?


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## MacGuyver4.2.0 (Apr 28, 2012)

Ernst, allow me to step in and layeth the smack down. *CRACK*

*Nothingreallymatters- you are aptly named.* Nothing you have posted in this thread is relevant or on topic.
Since YOU are the newbie here (April 2012) maybe you should just chill, pull up a chair and you just might learn something.

Some History for you, since you obviously were not taught any (or remember it).

Alcohol prohibition was a mistake, plain and simple. The people knew it, AND the Government knew it. But they did it anyway. Gov. employees by and far, are not that bright. 
*As prohibition DRAGGED ON, crime increased, in the form of bootleggers and organized crime.*
The Treasury Dept. was assigned a task- stamp out the bootleggers and organized crime links, as they were NOT helping the nation, only themselves.
BOOM! End of Alcohol prohibition and also the end of a lot (but not all) organized crime.
Now- consenting adults can LEGALLY drink alcohol and millions of them do. Unfortunately a lot of them only have a 2 digit I.Q. and drink and drive- killing over 2.2 million people a year worldwide.(from the W.H.O. World Health Org database)

THE SAME prohibition scenario is going to play out with Marijuana and already is.
Marijuana is still ILLEGAL by Federal law except for those few Medical patients the Government actually still supplies MMJ for. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7r8NeKuzt8

*The PEOPLE are calling for the END of prohibition on Marijuana (just like they did with alcohol).
Cartels, organized crime and others are making huge profits from something that is still banned by the government for the general public. (just like alcohol was)
*The DRUG WAR is a dismal failure and is still wasting of millions upon millions of taxpayer dollars. (Alcohol prohibition was also a dismal failure)

The BIG difference between the 2?

Alcohol related deaths continue to mount (again, 2.2 million every year and climbing)
Marijuana deaths? I cannot find any. If you can produce real coroner records that clearly show Marijuana use, misuse or overuse as the finite cause of death we'd all love to see it. Take your time.
Marijuana has multiple medicinal properties and new evidence points to proven anti-cancer properties as well.

SO, you say the government is going to F%$! up Marijuana and ruin it for everyone? Wrong answer.

Just like alcohol, one WILL be able to buy Marijuana from an authorized merchant, store or distributor.
Just like alcohol, one will pay tax on it (yes that will happen)
BUT- just like alcohol, I WILL CHOOSE WHETHER I BUY OR PRODUCE MY OWN.

The same rule applies to *gasp* alcohol today! You can buy it from the store (and pay a tax)
OR one can brew or vint their own beer and wines AT HOME. (yes, Virginia, without paying a TAX! Without going to JAIL!) 

Example: *The B.A.T.F (A Federal agency) states that one can produce for their OWN PERSONAL USE up to 100 gallons of wine per legal adult without having a liquor license or paying taxes on it.
*http://ttb.gov/faqs/genalcohol.shtml

27Alcohol, Tobacco Products and Firearms12006-04-012006-04-01false24.75Section 24.75Alcohol, Tobacco Products and FirearmsALCOHOL AND TOBACCO TAX AND TRADE BUREAU, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURYLIQUORSWINEAdministrative and Miscellaneous ProvisionsTax Exempt Wine§ 24.75*Wine for personal or family use. *
*(a) General. Any adult may, without payment of tax, produce wine for personal or family use and not for sale.*
*(b) Quantity. The aggregate amount of wine that may be produced exempt from tax with respect to any household may not exceed:*
*(1) 200 gallons per calendar year for a household in which two or more adults reside, or*
*(2) 100 gallons per calendar year if there is only one adult residing in the household.*
(c) Definition of an adult. For the purposes of this section, an adult is any individual who is 18 years of age or older. However, if the locality in which the household is located has established by law a greater minimum age at which wine may be sold to individuals, the term &#8220;adult&#8221; will mean an individual who has attained that age.
(d) Proprietors of bonded wine premises. Any adult, defined in § 24.75(c), who operates a bonded wine premises as an individual owner or in partnership with others, may produce wine and remove it from the bonded wine premises free of tax for personal or family use, subject to the limitations in § 24.75(b).
(e) Limitation. This exemption should not in any manner be construed as authorizing the production of wine in violation of applicable State or local law. Except as provided in § 24.75(d), this exemption does not otherwise apply to partnerships, corporations, or associations.
(f) Removal. Wine produced under this section may be removed from the premises where made for personal or family use including use at organized affairs, exhibitions or competitions, such as home winemaker's contests, tastings or judgings, but may not under any circumstances be sold or offered for sale. The proprietor of a bonded wine premises shall pay the tax on any wine removed for personal or family use in excess of the limitations provided in this section and shall also enter all quantities removed for personal or family use on TTB F 5120.17, Report of Bonded Wine Premises Operations. (Sec. 201, Pub. L. 85-859, 72 Stat. 1331, as amended (26 U.S.C. 5042))
(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number 1512-0216)[T.D. ATF-299, 55 FR 24989, June 19, 1991, as amended by T.D. ATF-338, 58 FR 19064, Apr. 12, 1993; T.D. ATF-344, 58 FR 40354, July 28, 1993]

Again ... JUST LIKE ALCOHOL One will soon be able to grow their own Marijuana for PERSONAL USE without paying a tax.
DO you think for even ONE MOMENT the government doesn't tax 'personal use' beer and wines because they are nice? They wanted to do something for the people?
NO. *They DO NOT TAX it because the smart people stood up & told the government to go fuck themselves and their unjust taxes.* Not to mention it would be unconstitutional. 

*Same thing is going to apply for legalized personal use Marijuana. And people just like ME are going to make sure of it.*
So- the argument about the government taxing, ruining and destroying Marijuana&#8217;s future holds no merit, since the SMART people are standing up and laying the smack down!


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## abandonconflict (Apr 28, 2012)

Don't legalize it!


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## Nothingreallymatters (Apr 28, 2012)

MacGuyver4.2.0 said:


> Ernst, allow me to step in and layeth the smack down. *CRACK*
> 
> *Nothingreallymatters- you are aptly named.* Nothing you have posted in this thread is relevant or on topic.
> Since YOU are the newbie here (April 2012) maybe you should just chill, pull up a chair and you just might learn something.
> ...




I'm not even reading that book on "what you say makes you better then me"
I simply commented on this thread why I don't want it legal. Simply put, I want it to be decriminalized to the point where everyone just shuts the fuck up about it. And no one gets it trouble.


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## Nothingreallymatters (Apr 28, 2012)

abandonconflict said:


> Don't legalize it!
> View attachment 2143512



Thank you!!!!!


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## MacGuyver4.2.0 (Apr 28, 2012)

Nothingreallymatters said:


> I'm not even reading that book on "what you say makes you better then me"
> I simply commented on this thread why I don't want it legal. Simply put, I want it to be decriminalized to the point where everyone just shuts the fuck up about it. And no one gets it trouble.



None of us here are 'better' than anyone else. Some of us are better informed, however.
Your statements of 'decrim' sound just like something a dealer would say... but wishing and wanting do not make things happen- doing does.

Nobody is stopping you from decriminalizing Marijuana, do your part and get active. Knock yourself out.
Remember that there are organized, intelligent people working at this very moment to make it LEGAL for everyone, everywhere, much to the dismay of the government, cartels, dealers and dispensaries.


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## Ernst (Apr 28, 2012)

All arguing aside.

If we all will stand together and get the right to have, use and grow cannabis first we may be able to have some sort of decrim.
But we cannot have anything if we will not fight for individual rights over the profit-motive

We have all these failed attempts and all of them are trying to tell the Federal Government that we can sell and make money on cannabis. That is what is killing our freedom.

Rights for people first to have, consume and grow without commercial Profit-Motive language!

That is what moves us forward. That is what is possible under constatutional law.


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## Nothingreallymatters (Apr 28, 2012)

Ernst said:


> All arguing aside.
> 
> If we all will stand together and get the right to have, use and grow cannabis first we may be able to have some sort of decrim.
> But we cannot have anything if we will not fight for individual rights over the profit-motive
> ...




Like a said before: we are modern slaves. We are modern slaves to money. And without money in America. There would be nothing (simply put)
We cannot wave somethin in the governments face and not mention money. Because that is what they thrive apon!!
That's all they want to hear. America is in debt. I think it's like 80 trillion? And legalizing cannabis would only bring us like 700 million annually. That's why they don't care! Because it's just a fraction of a penny. They want more..


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## ford442 (Apr 29, 2012)

The goverment!


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## SativaStan504 (May 23, 2012)

Ive heard about companies such as marlboro growing weed with radioactive fertilizer that makes the bud grow much faster and much larger, but the fertilizer has been shown to cause cancer... so thats how those bastards would fuck up the legalization of weed, but fuck buying any bud already pre rolled or anything i would grow it myself or buy from a dispensary. Im all for the legalization of ganja, but even decriminalization would be better than going to jail for weed like it is in the 504.


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## ford442 (May 23, 2012)

when have tobacco companies grown weed????? this sounds patently false to me - if they did grow weed and did that to it then we would all know about it and stop it..
they do however use radioactive pesticide on the ground under tobacco plants letting the isotopes trail upward in the morning dew.. that may be the deal you are referring to - because under the law, there is no sanctioned growing of cannabis by farms..


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## SativaStan504 (May 24, 2012)

Maybe it wasnt tobacco companies and maybe i was fed false info, but you can see where im going. Shit is corrupt as the fuck now and anything that the government fucks with usually ends up bad.


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## Pipe Dream (May 24, 2012)

Yes, lets keep the prices of marijuana inflated and imprison people for growing a plant. And also, lets continue to spend our tax money fighting the drug war so that DEA officials can continue to get paid to eradicate hemp fields.


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## ford442 (May 24, 2012)

sorry to accuse you of believing B.S., but there is a lot of it out there..
i think that legal pot - even in the hands of the tobacco farms - will be better than illegal - they can make cigarettes poison and no one will stop buying them because they are addicted - but, if i had the choice of taking my chances on corporate weed having been told that it is poisoned in some way - i would then choose to smoke my friend's pot or grow my own or go to a small head shop instead.. we would regulate them - they would either grow pleasing, non-toxic weed or we will run them out of the business..


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## ford442 (May 24, 2012)

Pipe Dream said:


> Yes, lets keep the prices of marijuana inflated and imprison people for growing a plant. And also, lets continue to spend our tax money fighting the drug war so that DEA officials can continue to get paid to eradicate hemp fields.



^^ This


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## Weedasaurus (May 26, 2012)

it should be legalized. whether you buy it from the tobacco company is up to you. unless tobacco lobbiest taint the bill like tobacco so it can't be grown at home.


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## Toorop (Jun 14, 2012)

Why not just legalize it to the point like alcohol. If you want to grow your own, then that is fine. However if you want to go down to a store and buy an ounce, that is also fine. I do think it would bring prices down significantly though and we would see more people buying it.


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## ford442 (Jun 15, 2012)

Toorop said:


> Why not just legalize it to the point like alcohol. If you want to grow your own, then that is fine. However if you want to go down to a store and buy an ounce, that is also fine. I do think it would bring prices down significantly though and we would see more people buying it.


my thoughts precisely! i want that to start in the western US and spread to the entire world!


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## Dr Kynes (Jun 15, 2012)

cannabis is sometimes used as a "mop crop" to suck up contaminants from the soil after a chemical spill, dumping or a radiation incident. 

cannabis is being planted at fukishima in japan to suck up the radioactive isotopes from the soil around the nuclear plant, and it has been used to suck salts out of soil contaminated by seawater or over fertilization. 

these successful experiments are NOT indications that the government tobacco companies or shadowy illuminati forces will try to poison your dope.

the position of decriminalization is held only by those who profit from the cannabis status quo, dealers, smugglers and underground growers. these assholes wish to protect their profits, and that is all. 

if cannabis were legalized, any dimwit could grow it, resulting in local crops, local farms and possibly some national corporate branding, but most people would get their dope locally, like they used to get their tobacco. Unlike tobacco, dope s easy to grow anywhere in the world, has few serious pests, and relatively minor curing and preparation needed to turn the raw crop into the finished product. some tobacco companies might open their own lines of pre-rolled pre-packaged cannabis cigarettes but it would take years, and a huge investment of capital to set up these types of branded enterprises, and as cannabis is non-addictive, it doesnt really mesh well with the tobacco business model. Cocaine and heroine on the other hand... 

*dont believe the hype, decriminalization is just more drug war and more illegal, and immoral profiteering on the backs of the patients and recreational users.*


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## desert dude (Jun 16, 2012)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

Absolutely correct.


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## HeartlandHank (Jun 16, 2012)

I could go either way.


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## colonuggs (Jun 16, 2012)

its a civil offense in seattle washington...$100 ticket for 40gs and under better than jailtime

Now they want to legalize weed .....Thats what they want to call it I-502

Their version of legalization is the State liquor board running all production and distribution...state owned and operated stores....

basically a monopoly sales and distribtion of up to a oz of marijuana to people above 21 without a doctors note

Noone can legally grow it themselves,... except mmj patients ...so we will be forced to buy from the New Mobsters




...........................................................But what about hemp....will that be legal???? 

We can purchase it and import and sell it....but its illegal for us to grow it???? WTF

Hemp is what made marijuana illegal..... not because people smoked marijuana but because chemical companies like dupont came along and helped make it so.

It only makes sense that if they legalize marijuana ...that hemp gets legalized right along within the process

Finally give the oil, paper, paint, gas, so many different companies some competition based on a natural renewable resource


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## MacGuyver4.2.0 (Jun 17, 2012)

colonuggs-

I too, figured out that HEMP is the real dagger they are trying to conceal and why marijuana has been 'illegal' for so long now. What's ironic is that hemp was re-authorized during WWII as they needed it to make big strong ropes for ships and tents. Then they made it illegal again. Not that the usefullness of it had diminished, but that they didn't want it getting too popular again. Fast forward 60+ years and we need hemp NOW, more than ever! 

*I also figured out that hemp will be one way we get marijuana legalized*. All branches of the U.S. Government have a branch dedicated to the reporting of Fraud, Waste or Abuse. You basically turn in our own U.S. Government for that charge as they are not using responsible, sustainable materials in their day to day operations. The U.S. Government is THE largest employer in the United States, hands down. If the largest employer in the country is wasting thousands of pounds of paper EVERY DAY, that is a huge toll on our forests and those trees take 20-30 years or more to grow...only to be chopped down so somebody can write shit on them or wipe shit on them (same thing really). If someone charges the government with gross negligence for NOT using a sustainable resource (when they easily could be), they are guilty as charged. Book 'em danno! Once the media gets ahold of this, the cat is out of the bag and people will start to ask questions. Of course Georgia Pacific and other paper mills will rant and cry, but TOUGH SHIT! Maybe it's time they diversified.


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## bigv1976 (Jun 17, 2012)

Wasnt FDD one of those guys that always preached not legalizing weed? How is ole FDD nowadays anyway? Careful what you wish for.


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## bluntmassa1 (Jun 18, 2012)

alls I know is our founding fathers would beat are asses they came to this country for freedom the only cops where for violent people and theives their where no laws on drugs. our ancestors came here cause they didn't want to be ruled but here we are the goverment has us like a bunch of sheep if you use drugs your a criminal hard drugs your going to jail just for personal use thats not what our country was ment to be weed laws are more leanant in the countrys we left if your not harming anybody else it should be legal if you inject heroin it dosn't hurt me just like if two guys are gay as long as their not getting freaky in public who cares its your life you live once some of us aren't here for long how do they think they have the right to control us


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## Collisto's Orbit (Jun 19, 2012)

Dude, the founding fathers would beat your ass personally for your inability to use punctuation. Once I took the time to mentally add it in for you, I saw that your message was spot on.


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## ford442 (Jun 19, 2012)

the founding fathers all grew hemp and many of them smoked pot according to forensic evidence in their pipes..


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## Collisto's Orbit (Jun 20, 2012)

I heard that the motivation for George Washington and his troops to cross the Delaware River and defeat the Hessians was that they had the dankest kush. The Hessians were so stoned, they were easily toppled. G-dub and the rebs collected all the herb and had a huge blowout. Morale soared thru da rooof, and the revolution was secured. The rest is history.


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