# There is more evidence of God than can be denied.



## New Age United (Jun 16, 2015)

I noticed that there isn't much going on in the philosophy threads so I want to start a debate. IMO there is much more evidence to support the existence of a higher power and infinite intelligence than there is against it. Please offer your opinions and I will offer mine.


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## thepenofareadywriter (Jun 16, 2015)

there is no evidence of a god...if there was, there would be no need of a debate


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## Doobius1 (Jun 16, 2015)




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## Diabolical666 (Jun 16, 2015)

New Age United said:


> I noticed that there isn't much going on in the philosophy threads so I want to start a debate. IMO there is much more evidence to support the existence of a higher power and infinite intelligence than there is against it. Please offer your opinions and I will offer mine.


Can you please give examples of all the evidence?


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## Chester da Horse (Jun 16, 2015)

the delusion is in describing an entity called 'God' instead of recognising that there is a cosmic energy and 'consciousness' - that not only defines and limits our universe, but is generated anew in each conscious thought.

With thoughts, WE create the world.

(I think, therefore I am on a more spiritual level)


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## torontoke (Jun 16, 2015)

New Age United said:


> I noticed that there isn't much going on in the philosophy threads so I want to start a debate. IMO there is much more evidence to support the existence of a higher power and infinite intelligence than there is against it. Please offer your opinions and I will offer mine.


When u say "infinite intelligence" do u mean aliens or god.
I believe theres more evidence of aliens than god. 
I have learnt over the years that people that have lived cushier easier lives are far more likely to believe the evidence of god.
I think people with shittier lives are more likely to not believe at all than believe god is real but hates them.


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## Diabolical666 (Jun 16, 2015)

torontoke said:


> When u say "infinite intelligence" do u mean aliens or god.
> I believe theres more evidence of aliens than god.
> I have learnt over the years that people that have lived cushier easier lives are far more likely to believe the evidence of god.
> I think people with shittier lives are more likely to not believe at all than believe god is real but hates them.


Absolutley...alien overlords and the material world make more sense to me


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## New Age United (Jun 17, 2015)

Diabolical666 said:


> Can you please give examples of all the evidence?


The fact that the odds against life existing are infinite (mathematical definition) and yet it does exist. Example the odds of the moon crashing into the Earth and creating the perfect balance for life to form; you can say this was a chance occurrence but when you factor in all of the other things that were required such as the mass of the earth and moon and it's proper distance from the sun then it begins to appear that there is order and reason behind it all; it's as if a higher conscious is aware and active in the universe. Can you come up with another explanation?


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## New Age United (Jun 17, 2015)

torontoke said:


> When u say "infinite intelligence" do u mean aliens or god.
> I believe theres more evidence of aliens than god.
> I have learnt over the years that people that have lived cushier easier lives are far more likely to believe the evidence of god.
> I think people with shittier lives are more likely to not believe at all than believe god is real but hates them.


It is very common for people to feel that God, fate, the universe is set against them, in fact I would say that it is more common for people to feel that God is evil than god is good. I am a paranoid schizophrenic; I have had no cushy life, but still I can not deny the facts. Perhaps god created us just so he could watch us suffer; I don't hold on to the idea of a loving father, but still I can not deny the facts. To me it appears evident that a higher power is aware and active in the universe.


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## BDOGKush (Jun 17, 2015)

What facts?


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## Rrog (Jun 17, 2015)

There will never be proof either way. That's the whole point.


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## New Age United (Jun 17, 2015)

thepenofareadywriter said:


> there is no evidence of a god...if there was, there would be no need of a debate


Yes there is evidence of god, if you can read and write than you can understand. Just look at the DNA code; there is no way that carbon atoms would have formed the double helix on there own, there absolutely must be a higher intelligence at work. You can still debate; the truth is most often counter-intuitive and what may appear as evident could in fact be false, there could be another explanation.


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## New Age United (Jun 17, 2015)

BDOGKush said:


> What facts?


I'm giving you facts.


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## New Age United (Jun 17, 2015)

Rrog said:


> There will never be proof either way. That's the whole point.


If you can use logic than the proof is there to see, but take a deeper look, it may very well be an illusion.


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## Rrog (Jun 17, 2015)

This entire "existence" is a holographic illusion. Like wearing Oculus Rift Headset and playing a video game. You're immersed in it so it becomes your reality. Our perception of reality is surprisingly easy to manipulate


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## BDOGKush (Jun 17, 2015)

None of what you posted proves the exsistence of a higher power. You gave your opinion on what the odds against life forming means to you.


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## New Age United (Jun 17, 2015)

Rrog said:


> This entire "existence" is a holographic illusion. Like wearing Oculus Rift Headset and playing a video game. You're immersed in it so it becomes your reality. Our perception of reality is surprisingly easy to manipulate


How is our perceptions of reality easy to manipulate?


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## New Age United (Jun 17, 2015)

BDOGKush said:


> None of what you posted proves the exsistence of a higher power. You gave your opinion on what the odds against life forming means to you.


Yes; now it is up to you to use logic effectively and determine your own understanding. Please share any opinions either for or against me.


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## Rrog (Jun 17, 2015)

Google "Brain Fooled" and see the results. Hundreds of examples of what we feel is "real," actually isn't.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 17, 2015)

New Age United said:


> The fact that the odds against life existing are infinite (mathematical definition) and yet it does exist. Example the odds of the moon crashing into the Earth and creating the perfect balance for life to form; you can say this was a chance occurrence but when you factor in all of the other things that were required such as the mass of the earth and moon and it's proper distance from the sun then it begins to appear that there is order and reason behind it all; it's as if a higher conscious is aware and active in the universe. Can you come up with another explanation?


Look up the Drake equation, the odds that we're the only life in the universe is mathematically impossible

Your perception of what "perfect" is is subject to your own consciousness and life experiences. Who's to say life on Earth with 2 moons, or no moons for that matter wouldn't be better? You don't know because you've never experienced it. You believe life in Earth is "perfect" because your ancestors evolved on Earth. We're all subjects of our environment and if we don't adapt we die. 99% of all species that have ever existed on Earth have gone extinct, do you think it was "perfect" for them?


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## New Age United (Jun 17, 2015)

Rrog said:


> Google "Brain Fooled" and see the results. Hundreds of examples of what we feel is "real," actually isn't.


Yes the truth is most often counter-intuitive, but is it so easy to change our perceptions whether it is fact or fiction? The mind is stubborn.


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## Rrog (Jun 17, 2015)

I just think it's a freakin blast that none of this is real. Only consciousness is real.


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## tightpockt (Jun 17, 2015)

New Age United said:


> The fact that the odds against life existing are infinite (mathematical definition) and yet it does exist. Example the odds of the moon crashing into the Earth and creating the perfect balance for life to form; you can say this was a chance occurrence but when you factor in all of the other things that were required such as the mass of the earth and moon and it's proper distance from the sun then it begins to appear that there is order and reason behind it all; it's as if a higher conscious is aware and active in the universe. Can you come up with another explanation?


If space is infinite that means anything that can happen will happen. Therefor it is a mathematical certainty that not only this world exists with all of its complexities but that an infinite number of worlds just like our exist also.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 17, 2015)

Rrog said:


> I just think it's a freakin blast that none of this is real. Only consciousness is real.


If you take that to its next logical step, what is consciousness? Chemical and electrical impulses inside our brains

So what does "real" really even mean?







Shit gets a lot weirder when you go even further down the rabbit hole..

What are chemicals, what is electricity? Both are governed by the laws of physics.. laws that are by all intents and purposes completely arbitrary..

This is the only thing that has ever planted doubt in my mind


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## BDOGKush (Jun 17, 2015)

So what reasoning would a creator have for creating a Universe that is almost entirely deadly to life?

Why make the exsistence of life so rare and difficult?

Why create a Universe where black holes, not life thrive?

Of course the Earth is adapted to our needs, we evolved within its perimeters. Evolution tends to adapt life to its environment.

The Universe is better designed to prevent life from forming than it is to allow life.


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## tightpockt (Jun 17, 2015)

BDOGKush said:


> So what reasoning would a creator have for creating a Universe that is almost entirely deadly to life?
> 
> Why make the exsistence of life so rare and difficult?
> 
> ...


How do you know?


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## New Age United (Jun 17, 2015)

Rrog said:


> I just think it's a freakin blast that none of this is real. Only consciousness is real.


Time is an illusion but the Earth is very Real. What is there to support consciousness if there is nothing more. Are you believing that you are the only one in existence, which I can not possibly prove false.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 17, 2015)

tightpockt said:


> How do you know?


Go anywhere outside Earth and you die in seconds


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## BDOGKush (Jun 17, 2015)

tightpockt said:


> How do you know?


How do I know what? That the Universe is better designed to prevent life than allow it? Science.


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## New Age United (Jun 17, 2015)

BDOGKush said:


> So what reasoning would a creator have for creating a Universe that is almost entirely deadly to life?
> 
> Why make the exsistence of life so rare and difficult?
> 
> ...


Perhaps it has to be this way, just as the decay of matter gives birth to new life, so to do black holes give birth to new universes. What seems improbable is the way of things.


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## tightpockt (Jun 17, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Go anywhere outside Earth and you die in seconds


Yeah but earth is "in" space, therefor space is hospitable to life.


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## tightpockt (Jun 17, 2015)

BDOGKush said:


> How do I know what? That the Universe is better designed to prevent life than allow it? Science.


You said "life" was rare and difficult. You also said the universe was better designed to prevent life from forming than it is to allow life. I just want to know what basis you have for saying that. We know hardly anything about the universe and these claims seem to be the underpinning of your philosophy so I'd just like to know how you came to those conclusions.


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## BDOGKush (Jun 17, 2015)

New Age United said:


> Perhaps it has to be this way, just as the decay of matter gives birth to new life, so to do black holes give birth to new universes. What seems improbable is the way of things.


Then why are the conditions for life to form so difficult to come by? With Trillions and trillions of black holes in our universe, wouldn't life be more common if their purpose was to create new life? 

Douglas Adams had a great analogy for this fine tuning arguement. 

"Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, "This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, may have been made to have me in it!" This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise."


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 17, 2015)

tightpockt said:


> Yeah but earth is "in" space, therefor space is hospitable to life.


Earth is not "in space", Earth _occupies_ space. Earth is hospitable to life, space is not, why do you think we need special suits to go outside Earth?


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## Rrog (Jun 17, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> If you take that to its next logical step, what is consciousness? Chemical and electrical impulses inside our brains


I would say that consciousness has nothing to do with chemistry or electricity. Realism and Materialism have been proven false as physics theories.


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## tightpockt (Jun 17, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Earth is not "in space", Earth _occupies_ space. Earth is hospitable to life, space is not, why do you think we need special suits to go outside Earth?


Maybe I used the wrong terminology, I think we're splitting hairs. I would say the statement that "the universe isn't hospitable to life" is either false or not knowable. The fact that we're here refutes it. Obviously, I know about the vacuum of space.


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## New Age United (Jun 17, 2015)

Rrog said:


> I would say that consciousness has nothing to do with chemistry or electricity. Realism and Materialism have been proven false as physics theories.


What has been proven true as physics theories? And what is truth? I honestly want to know your thoughts.


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## tightpockt (Jun 17, 2015)

still waiting for the "evidence"


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## BDOGKush (Jun 17, 2015)

tightpockt said:


> You said "life" was rare and difficult. You also said the universe was better designed to prevent life from forming than it is to allow life. I just want to know what basis you have for saying that. We know hardly anything about the universe and these claims seem to be the underpinning of your philosophy so I'd just like to know how you came to those conclusions.



The amount of planets that are potentially habital is very low compared to the amount of planets scientist know wouldn't be able to support life. Also the amount of time our solar system can actually support life is very low compared to age of the Universe itself. It seems life can only thrive in a very small window of time in the grand scheme of the Universe.

We're on a tiny island in space, with dwindling resources, orbiting a dying star and surrounded by potential threats that can wipe out life on our planet. Not exactly a hospitable place if you ask me.


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## Diabolical666 (Jun 17, 2015)

New Age United said:


> The fact that the odds against life existing are infinite (mathematical definition) and yet it does exist. Example the odds of the moon crashing into the Earth and creating the perfect balance for life to form; you can say this was a chance occurrence but when you factor in all of the other things that were required such as the mass of the earth and moon and it's proper distance from the sun then it begins to appear that there is order and reason behind it all; it's as if a higher conscious is aware and active in the universe. Can you come up with another explanation?


I just read your first line...
Just because you dont understand it, doesnt mean a god did it.


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## thepenofareadywriter (Jun 17, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> If you take that to its next logical step, what is consciousness? Chemical and electrical impulses inside our brains
> 
> So what does "real" really even mean?
> *I 'm shocked !*
> ...





Padawanbater2 said:


> If you take that to its next logical step, what is consciousness? Chemical and electrical impulses inside our brains
> 
> So what does "real" really even mean? that I am shocked ?
> 
> ...


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## tightpockt (Jun 17, 2015)

In comparison...maybe. But IF the universe is infinite than there are infinite life sustaining planets...that means a lot of them.


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## Darth Vapour (Jun 17, 2015)

New Age United said:


> The fact that the odds against life existing are infinite (mathematical definition) and yet it does exist. Example the odds of the moon crashing into the Earth and creating the perfect balance for life to form; you can say this was a chance occurrence but when you factor in all of the other things that were required such as the mass of the earth and moon and it's proper distance from the sun then it begins to appear that there is order and reason behind it all; it's as if a higher conscious is aware and active in the universe. Can you come up with another explanation?


 You can drop a ball from anywhere on the earth and it will fall gravitational pull ?? same thing can apply for our galaxy and distance from planets why is there, no life on the moon if it comes from the same substance of that of earth ?? yet there is no life ??? its in close approximate to the sun yet nothing is alive ..
Why is the north pole not really at the north pole ??? 
If a person was to look at a GOD or Jesus or any mythical person SPIDERMAN ???? one must ask where are they ,, how many prayers come true... how many people are suffering on the earth ... why is there so many gods ?? and religions out there who is right who is wrong


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## New Age United (Jun 17, 2015)

Diabolical666 said:


> I just read your first line...
> Just because you dont understand it, doesnt mean a god did it.


You can do better than that.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 17, 2015)

Diabolical666 said:


> I just read your first line...
> Just because you dont understand it, doesnt mean a god did it.


Also known as the argument from incredulity


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## New Age United (Jun 17, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Also known as the argument from incredulity


Yes it is an argument from incredulity; glad to have some philosophers on board.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 17, 2015)

Rrog said:


> I would say that consciousness has nothing to do with chemistry or electricity. Realism and Materialism have been proven false as physics theories.


Where/how do you believe consciousness originates?

What do you mean exactly by 'realism' and 'materialism'?


tightpockt said:


> Maybe I used the wrong terminology, I think we're splitting hairs. I would say the statement that "the universe isn't hospitable to life" is either false or not knowable. The fact that we're here refutes it. Obviously, I know about the vacuum of space.


That doesn't make very much sense to me, we occupy one tiny fraction of a percent of the available space in the known universe, and as far as we know, we're the only life there is. The amount of space that doesn't support life is magnitudes greater than the space that does, furthermore the one thing we do know life as we know it requires is water which is an extremely scarce resource outside Earth. Being able to _support_ life isn't the same thing as being _hospitable_ to life, one is the bare minimum requirements like thermal vents at the bottom of the ocean, the other is flourishing resources like the surface


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## Darth Vapour (Jun 17, 2015)

All we are really is a fluke of nature is there life in other galaxies of course there is just look at uncle buck ??? perfect example of a alien  
But reality with millions of galaxies and suns and much older we are not alone


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## tightpockt (Jun 17, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Where/how do you believe consciousness originates?
> 
> What do you mean exactly by 'realism' and 'materialism'?
> 
> That doesn't make very much sense to me, we occupy one tiny fraction of a percent of the available space in the known universe, and as far as we know, we're the only life there is. The amount of space that doesn't support life is magnitudes greater than the space that does, furthermore the one thing we do know life as we know it requires is water which is an extremely scarce resource outside Earth. Being able to _support_ life isn't the same thing as being _hospitable_ to life, one is the bare minimum requirements like thermal vents at the bottom of the ocean, the other is flourishing resources like the surface


"life as we know it" and "the known universe" are the key phrases here. We know next to nothing about our universe. I'll speculate that 100 years from now our level of understanding will be laughable. You're using terms relative to us as humans and what we're capable of perceiving but again I refer to my infinity theory. I'm just a glass half full kinda guy!


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 17, 2015)

tightpockt said:


> "life as we know it" and "the known universe" are the key phrases here. We know next to nothing about our universe. I'll speculate that 100 years from now our level of understanding will be laughable. You're using terms relative to us as humans and what we're capable of perceiving but again I refer to my infinity theory. I'm just a glass half full kinda guy!


"Next to nothing" relative to what? We know quite a bit about the universe imo. 100 years ago Einstein had just recently published his theory of general relativity, a theory that is still just as strong today as it was then. I can assure you, in 100 years they won't. The laws of physics are very well understood, they likely won't be fundamentally changed by the next 100 years, built upon and updated as technology improves yes, but fundamentally changed, probably not


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## Rrog (Jun 17, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Where/how do you believe consciousness originates?
> 
> What do you mean exactly by 'realism' and 'materialism'?


Realism - The universe exists outside of our influence. http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/heisenberg/chapter4.html

Materialism- The universe exists due to mass and the energy on it. http://www.4truth.net/fourtruthpbscience.aspx?pageid=8589952939

My wording on the above is woefully inadequate, and I apologize for that. Hopefully the links shed more light on this. The main point is the world as a tangible, physical thing has been proven impossible. What is left is consciousness embedded in a hologram


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## tightpockt (Jun 17, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> "Next to nothing" relative to what? We know quite a bit about the universe imo. 100 years ago Einstein had just recently published his theory of general relativity, a theory that is still just as strong today as it was then. I can assure you, in 100 years they won't. The laws of physics are very well understood, they likely won't be fundamentally changed by the next 100 years, built upon and updated as technology improves yes, but fundamentally changed, probably not


we don't even know what "space" is made out of. We use terms like dark matter and dark energy but we're still in the infancy of our understanding of the universe and physics. I have a feeling we're just starting to get a grasp on the "basics" but with new advances in quantum mechanics those might even be off. Just recently scientists are saying the speed of light might not be constant...that would change everything. Bottom line, we as humans don't really KNOW anything, relatively. We can speculate all day but people that have certainty (not you) with things that are uncertain are unsettling. These are usually the religious folk who try to explain away the incredibly complex with a 3 letter word.


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## Chester da Horse (Jun 17, 2015)

tightpockt said:


> we don't even know what "space" is made out of. We use terms like dark matter and dark energy but we're still in the infancy of our understanding of the universe and physics. I have a feeling we're just starting to get a grasp on the "basics" but with new advances in quantum mechanics those might even be off. Just recently scientists are saying the speed of light might not be constant...that would change everything. Bottom line, we as humans don't really KNOW anything, relatively. We can speculate all day but people that have certainty (not you) with things that are uncertain are unsettling. These are usually the religious folk who try to explain away the incredibly complex with a 3 letter word.


I love it

scientific faith and religious faith both require you to accept some pretty ludicrous presumptions about reality before you can proceed down their yellow brick road.

dark nrg, dark matter. the speed of light? oooh. fuckin jokers.
god the merciful? christ the redeemer? delusional ramblings of a few convincing schizophrenics

find god in the cherry of a J


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 17, 2015)

tightpockt said:


> we don't even know what "space" is made out of. We use terms like dark matter and dark energy but we're still in the infancy of our understanding of the universe and physics. I have a feeling we're just starting to get a grasp on the "basics" but with new advances in quantum mechanics those might even be off. Just recently scientists are saying the speed of light might not be constant...that would change everything. Bottom line, we as humans don't really KNOW anything, relatively. We can speculate all day but people that have certainty (not you) with things that are uncertain are unsettling. These are usually the religious folk who try to explain away the incredibly complex with a 3 letter word.


Science is a process, you can't make progress if you're held back by the notion that we don't know anything because we don't know how much we don't know. We focus on the things we do know and that's what propels us forward


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## schuylaar (Jun 17, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Science is a process, you can't make progress if you're held back by the notion that we don't know anything because we don't know how much we don't know. We focus on the things we do know and that's what propels us forward


well put!


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## Chester da Horse (Jun 17, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> We focus on the things we do know and that's what propels us forward


I know I'm hungry. 

Can science prove to me with the same level of certainty anything at all? Can you convince me of any scientific theorem or principle with that level of certainty?

Science is a better tool than religion for advancing humanity, but it is thoroughly fallible.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 17, 2015)

Chester da Horse said:


> I know I'm hungry.
> 
> Can science prove to me with the same level of certainty anything at all? Can you convince me of any scientific theorem or principle with that level of certainty?
> 
> Science is a better tool than religion for advancing humanity, but it is thoroughly fallible.


Science *can't *prove anything, the main function of science is to *disprove* something

There is no such thing as absolute proof


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## Rrog (Jun 18, 2015)

Chester da Horse said:


> Science is a better tool than religion for advancing humanity, but it is thoroughly fallible.


Science denial can certainly give you free reign to assert or believe anything. Coming from a heavy science background, I always find this amusing when people summarily dismiss science as biased.


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## New Age United (Jun 18, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Science *can't *prove anything, the main function of science is to *disprove* something
> 
> There is no such thing as absolute proof


No but it can lead to a completely logical understanding and by trusting logic we can determine with great practicality was is true and what is false.


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## New Age United (Jun 18, 2015)

Chester da Horse said:


> I love it
> 
> scientific faith and religious faith both require you to accept some pretty ludicrous presumptions about reality before you can proceed down their yellow brick road.
> 
> ...


I myself am schizophrenic, but thanks to my medication I'm not delusional lmfao. I worship weed more than any god, but still I find the unexplainable pointing the finger at a higher being.


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## Rrog (Jun 18, 2015)

The term "being" is where many folks get hung up. Perhaps better to describe it as a system. 

We are consciousness, in some multi-dimension

We are placed in the hologram we're in now

We leave the hologram as a more advanced consciousness. 

Rinse - Wash - Repeat


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## New Age United (Jun 18, 2015)

So let's assume that the universe is in fact infinite (philosophical definition) and that life exists throughout the universe. How do you explain the DNA code, the opposable thumb, the fact that in order to ensure survival the organism must intuitively and primordialy know things about its environment, this all points to a much greater intelligence, a higher knowing.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 18, 2015)

New Age United said:


> So let's assume that the universe is in fact infinite (philosophical definition) and that life exists throughout the universe. How do you explain the DNA code, the opposable thumb, the fact that in order to ensure survival the organism must intuitively and primordialy know things about its environment, this all points to a much greater intelligence, a higher knowing.


Evolution


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## New Age United (Jun 18, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Evolution


I guess what I'm asking is how do you explain the process of natural selection; imo there must be a"knowing" involved.


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## New Age United (Jun 18, 2015)

If evolution wanted to ensure survival why didn't it create the same organism; why isn't the world filled with Lions and sharks, it's as if the higher knowing, the conscious universe, we could use the term god if it had not been so misused, was trying to create and sustain an entire ecosystem.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 18, 2015)

New Age United said:


> I guess what I'm asking is how do you explain the process of natural selection; imo there must be a"knowing" involved.


No "knowing" necessary


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## New Age United (Jun 18, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> No "knowing" necessary


Good video, but I must ask, if natural selection chooses what will increase survivability, therefore does it not intend to increase survivability? If nature intends things then it must be conscious.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 18, 2015)

New Age United said:


> Good video, but I must ask, if natural selection chooses what will increase survivability, therefore does it not intend to increase survivability? If nature intends things then it must be conscious.


There is no intent in nature. Natural selection is a process

If the white moth shows up better against the darker bark, it's more likely to be eaten by a bird and less likely to pass on it's white moth genes, less white moths reproduce while the darker moths flourish. Eventually you end up with only dark moths


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## New Age United (Jun 18, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> There is no intent in nature. Natural selection is a process
> 
> If the white moth shows up better against the darker bark, it's more likely to be eaten by a bird and less likely to pass on it's white moth genes, less white moths reproduce while the darker moths flourish. Eventually you end up with only dark moths


Thanks for explaining that; the volume was kinda low. That makes more sense.


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## New Age United (Jun 18, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> There is no intent in nature. Natural selection is a process
> 
> If the white moth shows up better against the darker bark, it's more likely to be eaten by a bird and less likely to pass on it's white moth genes, less white moths reproduce while the darker moths flourish. Eventually you end up with only dark moths


So I'm interested to know; do you believe in a dead universe; do you view the universe as a machine, a clock work universe. Do you not see order in everything and was there not a plan for this order, or is nature just that, the natural way of things, as if it could not possibly be any other way?


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## Bacala (Jun 18, 2015)

New Age United said:


> Good video, but I must ask, if natural selection chooses what will increase survivability, therefore does it not intend to increase survivability? If nature intends things then it must be conscious.


There is no choosing involved. Natural selection is simply a result of life happening.


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## reddan1981 (Jun 18, 2015)

The Scientific peer review process is corrupt. We are told what is real. Unless we have the time and resources to quantify theorem, we are told to have faith in the latest writings. We KNOW very little. For an example could any of us here, prove unequivocally that the earth spins, without pointing to someone else's theories? If the earth IS spinning why do the clouds stand still. If we are made from a singularly and are hurtling through space as space expands why have the star consolations remained in a fixed position?


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## New Age United (Jun 18, 2015)

reddan1981 said:


> The Scientific peer review process is corrupt. We are told what is real. Unless we have the time and resources to quantify theorem, we are told to have faith in the latest writings. We KNOW very little. For an example could any of us here, prove unequivocally that the earth spins, without pointing to someone else's theories? If the earth IS spinning why do the clouds stand still. If we are made from a singularly and are hurtling through space as space expands why have the star consolations remained in a fixed position?


The clouds only appear still bc you are spinning along with the Earth, it's called the non inertial frame. The consolations only appear to be fixed bc you have only been here an exponential fraction of time; most stars are light years away, it would take millions of years to even notice a millimeter of change.

But you proved your point; I can not prove to you that the earth is spinning without pointing to a theory, unless I could take you to outer space, if I could just change your frame of reference.


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## qwizoking (Jun 18, 2015)

I believe in god, a higher power etc.
Evolution is dumb though, natural selection is much different...Wont get into supporting evidence, most everyone Already has their mind made up

Also clouds Arent still


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## New Age United (Jun 18, 2015)

reddan1981 said:


> I didn't ASK for an explanation. Any halfwit could google and come up with an answer, told to them by someone else. I asked for proof. (not calling you halfwit)


Well no offense but I do feel like you're calling me a halfwit and assuming I'm a Google junkie. I studied the theory of relativity and that is how I can assure you of such things, bc any halfwit can do such a thing and realize that the theory makes so much sense that it is obviously true.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 18, 2015)

New Age United said:


> So I'm interested to know; do you believe in a dead universe; do you view the universe as a machine, a clock work universe. Do you not see order in everything and was there not a plan for this order, or is nature just that, the natural way of things, as if it could not possibly be any other way?


I'm not sure what you mean by a "dead universe"

As humans we're used to seeing patterns and order in things, that's one of our evolutionary advantages that improves our survivability, same thing with faces, you ever stare at a carpet or a stucco wall with random designs on it and eventually see faces? Our brain does that all on its own


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## Darth Vapour (Jun 18, 2015)

Well you cannot use evolution as per humans we have reached the max more or less were not like any other species that will in fact die off or change we can manipulate our self already before birth via genetic DNA work ..
If you were to look at last ancient cave man and dressed him in todays clothes know one would know he is pre historic evolution takes millions of years not one magical god saying let there be a nose lol WTF..
Is there a god >?? not a hope in hell speaking of hope well then if it comforts you then GOD and hope = same fucking thing wishful thinking ..
Does anyone know where Jesus is buried ??? when he was actually born ????
kinda funny really when when you break it all down you got the 6 so called people John Paul etc speaking of this Jesus yet not one of them EVER spoke to him let alone sat down and ate together NEVER happened EVER .. what a crap of shit religion really is
The fucking Blind leading the Blind its like me talking or saying i know pandawanda and saying it like it is when in fact i know fuck all about the guy just what i herd on RIU 
shit look at witnesses in courts 2 - 5 years after they only will remember some stuff ut they will fabricate it like it was a EVENT when in fact it was a speeding ticket 
lol 
no different again like today ,, We were taught to think comunism is bad bla bla , yet if a person looks in there back yard which is worse your brain washed at birth to believe what ever ..


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## New Age United (Jun 18, 2015)

reddan1981 said:


> you edited your post after you read my reply, then you wrote about your butthurtedness, that is a dishonest display.


I edited my post bc I was thinking of a better way to put it. Butthurtedness, what do you think you fucked me up the ass or something get the fuck outa here.


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## Darth Vapour (Jun 18, 2015)

But most importantly i am waiting for this more evidence there is a GOD thing lol


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## superloud (Jun 18, 2015)

New Age United said:


> Yes there is evidence of god, if you can read and write than you can understand. Just look at the DNA code; there is no way that carbon atoms would have formed the double helix on there own, there absolutely must be a higher intelligence at work. You can still debate; the truth is most often counter-intuitive and what may appear as evident could in fact be false, there could be another explanation.


If your God had to create us complex human beings. Then how did your even more complex God come into existence? If he can just be then can't we just be?


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## BDOGKush (Jun 18, 2015)

Just go do a search for earth rotation from space, plenty of videos that prove it.


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## thepenofareadywriter (Jun 18, 2015)

just because we do not have a complete understanding of how and why everything is...does not mean that there is a god or a higher power...it just means we do not know it all... its like different seasons that just happen to work out pretty good for earth...winter, spring ,summer and fall


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## reddan1981 (Jun 19, 2015)

m


New Age United said:


> I edited my post bc I was thinking of a better way to put it. Butthurtedness, what do you think you fucked me up the ass or something get the fuck outa here.


My intent is to point out, no one really knows. Your trying to lay a guilt trip. If I were trying to insult, you'd have no doubt. Still people will argue out of ignorance or support to an ideology. My premise supports yours. My opinion is this; our life is about understanding. Our minds are made to contain the consciousness. Which we then shape with our life experience. Once we die, our consciousness returns to a sea of consciousness ready to be recycled and returned to more life. During our life we are like batteries, we have the capacity to produce positive and negatively charged energy, both will accumulate to their respective.


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## reddan1981 (Jun 19, 2015)

BDOGKush said:


> Just go do a search for earth rotation from space, plenty of videos that prove it.


not real ones brother, I'm open to being proved to though. If anyone could post a real time video of the earth spinning that ISN'T a 1970s where the clouds appear fixed please do....


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## reddan1981 (Jun 19, 2015)

Anyone interested in another perspective try WWW.Aulis.com
As with all information maintain a critical mindset.


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## Rrog (Jun 19, 2015)

This thread started off as interesting. Now we're debating the value of science


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## reddan1981 (Jun 19, 2015)

Rrog said:


> This thread started off as interesting. Now we're debating the value of science


True scientific practices have long been constrained within set laws. By true I mean observable, quantifiable, demonstrable.
Science WILL be our saving grace if we can break the hierarchy that controls its publication.


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## Rrog (Jun 19, 2015)

That's bullshit


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## superloud (Jun 19, 2015)

reddan1981 said:


> Anyone interested in another perspective try WWW.Auris.com
> As with all information maintain a critical mindset.


What does that have to do with this Discussion? I must have looked over something


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## reddan1981 (Jun 19, 2015)

superloud said:


> What does that have to do with this Discussion? I must have looked over something


Sorry bro it might look random, the connections I make in life will be different to yourself because we are different. Our intent for posting on this site will differ also. My point for posting this specific website is to back up my post with a site that points out NASA photo anomalies and to add weight to my premise that we don't really KNOW anything.


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## BDOGKush (Jun 19, 2015)

reddan1981 said:


> not real ones brother, I'm open to being proved to though. If anyone could post a real time video of the earth spinning that ISN'T a 1970s where the clouds appear fixed please do....


Are you serious? What's next, the earth is flat?


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## Rrog (Jun 19, 2015)

It's easy for some to come up with armchair explanations when we abandon that pesky science stuff...

I have other threads to attend to, so y'all have fun and stay safe.


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## reddan1981 (Jun 19, 2015)

BDOGKush said:


> Are you serious? What's next, the earth is flat?


proof brother. You are still caught up with trying to argue with assumption.


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## BDOGKush (Jun 19, 2015)

reddan1981 said:


> proof brother. You are still court up with trying to argue with assumption.


I'm not going to argue with someone that denies visual proof, especially about the earth spinning.


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## reddan1981 (Jun 19, 2015)

BDOGKush said:


> I'm not going to argue with someone that denies visual proof, especially about the earth spinning.


we will have to agree to disagree on what verifies as visual proof my mate.


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## superloud (Jun 19, 2015)

reddan1981 said:


> Sorry bro it might look random, the connections I make in life will be different to yourself because we are different. Our intent for posting on this site will differ also. My point for posting this specific website is to back up my post with a site that points out NASA photo anomalies and to add weight to my premise that we don't really KNOW anything.


 I didn't see anything about space in that link I must be overlooking it and look like a job website to me


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## BDOGKush (Jun 19, 2015)

reddan1981 said:


> we will have to agree to disagree on what verifies as visual proof my mate.


What do you consider visual proof? If videos from the International Space Station aren't good enough for you, then what is?


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## reddan1981 (Jun 19, 2015)

BDOGKush said:


> What do you consider visual proof? If videos from the International Space Station aren't good enough for you, then what is?


who owns and produces them pictures? Could you put your hand on your heart and sware there is absolutely no possibility of fabrication?
I know I can't, thus again reiterating we haven't got proof yet people will argue out of ignorance.


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## reddan1981 (Jun 19, 2015)

superloud said:


> I didn't see anything about space in that link I must be overlooking it and look like a job website to me


sorry I spelled it wrong lol I see your point www.Aulis.com


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## superloud (Jun 19, 2015)

reddan1981 said:


> sorry I spelled it wrong lol I see your point www.Aulis.com


Lol makes much more scence now


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## New Age United (Jun 19, 2015)

[QUOTE ="Darth Vapour, post: 11684818, member: 901909"]But most importantly i am waiting for this more evidence there is a GOD thing lol[/Q


reddan1981 said:


> not real ones brother, I'm open to being proved to though. If anyone could post a real time video of the earth spinning that ISN'T a 1970s where the clouds appear fixed please do....


The clouds are spinning with the earth; the entire atmosphere is spinning with earth; I know I can't prove it to you but you can use and trust in logic. What is more logical, that the entire universe revolves around the Earth or that the earth spins.


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## reddan1981 (Jun 19, 2015)

New Age United said:


> [QUOTE ="Darth Vapour, post: 11684818, member: 901909"]But most importantly i am waiting for this more evidence there is a GOD thing lol[/Q
> 
> The clouds are spinning with the earth; the entire atmosphere is spinning with earth; I know I can't prove it to you but you can use and trust in logic. What is more logical, that the entire universe revolves around the Earth or that the earth spins.


logical is the wrong word I think. Probable is Imo more accurate.


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## New Age United (Jun 19, 2015)

reddan1981 said:


> Sorry bro it might look random, the connections I make in life will be different to yourself because we are different. Our intent for posting on this site will differ also. My point for posting this specific website is to back up my post with a site that points out NASA photo anomalies and to add weight to my premise that we don't really KNOW anything.


Yes we do KNOW things; that is the Devine gift of logic. We can know that the earth spins because it makes sense, and by trusting logic we have built the entire civilization of humanity; we are the supreme beings on this Earth entirety because of what we know, but I do get your point, we can not be certain of anything; other than what we ourselves are directly aware of. The only way to prove to you that the earth spins is to put you in the frame of an observer outside of the earth.


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## reddan1981 (Jun 19, 2015)

New Age United said:


> Yes we do KNOW things; that is the Devine gift of logic. We can know that the earth spins because it makes sense, and by trusting logic we have built the entire civilization of humanity; we are the supreme beings on this Earth entirety because of what we know, but I do get your point, we can not be certain of anything; other than what we ourselves are directly aware of. The only way to prove to you that the earth spins is to put you in the frame of an observer outside of the earth.


. Have you heard of the Sagnac's experiment?


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## New Age United (Jun 19, 2015)

reddan1981 said:


> . Have you heard of the Sagnac's experiment?


No; what does it entail.


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## reddan1981 (Jun 19, 2015)

New Age United said:


> No; what does it entail.


research it brother, it will give an alternative to relativity. I'm in no way asking you to believe it. but look into it when you're bored one day.


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## New Age United (Jun 19, 2015)

Yes I will thanks


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## New Age United (Jun 20, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by a "dead universe"
> 
> As humans we're used to seeing patterns and order in things, that's one of our evolutionary advantages that improves our survivability, same thing with faces, you ever stare at a carpet or a stucco wall with random designs on it and eventually see faces? Our brain does that all on its own


I mean do you view the universe as a lifeless unconscious machine, along the lines of Newtons clock work universe.

Can you explain how the double helix formed the DNA code and how that code communicates that information with the organism; how does an organism so complex as the human brain come to be without a primordial intelligence to direct it?


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## superloud (Jun 20, 2015)

New Age United said:


> I mean do you view the universe as a lifeless unconscious machine, along the lines of Newtons clock work universe.
> 
> Can you explain how the double helix formed the DNA code and how that code communicates that information with the organism; how does an organism so complex as the human brain come to be without a primordial intelligence to direct it?


Can you explain how your primordial Intelligent came to be? It's a simple question if we are so complex we cannot exist without a more complex being making us Man it is only logical to assume that that more complex band also had to have a maker. It doesn't make sense to explain God by saying look at the stuff around you. If God has to be the explanation to how all this magnificent shit exist then there has to be an explanation to how your God exist.


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## New Age United (Jun 20, 2015)

superloud said:


> Can you explain how your primordial Intelligent came to be? It's a simple question if we are so complex we cannot exist without a more complex being making us Man it is only logical to assume that that more complex band also had to have a maker. It doesn't make sense to explain God by saying look at the stuff around you. If God has to be the explanation to how all this magnificent shit exist then there has to be an explanation to how your God exist.


Yes I am aware of this; here is a simular question; what caused the big bang, if that is the beginning of our universe then what was there before that to support a big bang? Where and how does space - time begin, or is it Eternal and infinite (philosophical definition ).


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## New Age United (Jun 20, 2015)

If time is Eternal than Space must be infinite ( philosophical definition ). IMO the universe absolutely must be infinite and eternal otherwise it could not possibly exist; like plants which spring new life from decaying matter so do black holes spring forth new big bangs from the singularities they form, like a seed planted in the soil of space, space - time bending in on its self in an infinitely dividing matrix, the space - time continuum.


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## superloud (Jun 20, 2015)

New Age United said:


> Yes I am aware of this; here is a simular question; what caused the big bang, if that is the beginning of our universe then what was there before that to support a big bang? Where and how does space - time begin, or is it Eternal and infinite (philosophical definition ).


I never Claimed to believe in the Big Bang Theory. But that is exactly my point There is no definitive way to tell. Nothing around me prove the existence of God.


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## Chester da Horse (Jun 20, 2015)

New Age United said:


> If time is Eternal than Space must be infinite ( philosophical definition ). IMO the universe absolutely must be infinite and eternal otherwise it could not possibly exist; like plants which spring new life from decaying matter so do black holes spring forth new big bangs from the singularities they form, like a seed planted in the soil of space, space - time bending in on its self in an infinitely dividing matrix, the space - time continuum.


if you want a religious text that coherently mates with big bang theopry/modern cosmology - look at the Hindu vedas (>5000yr old scriptures from India)...its all in there.
doesn't quite fit well with the 7 day genesis tho, does it.


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## New Age United (Jun 21, 2015)

superloud said:


> I never Claimed to believe in the Big Bang Theory. But that is exactly my point There is no definitive way to tell. Nothing around me prove the existence of God.


You are denying logic; there is no way to prove that any other being is conscious but do you honestly believe that you are the only conscious being; it is not rational to believe such a thing, it is in fact delusional.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 21, 2015)

New Age United said:


> I mean do you view the universe as a lifeless unconscious machine, along the lines of Newtons clock work universe.
> 
> Can you explain how the double helix formed the DNA code and how that code communicates that information with the organism; how does an organism so complex as the human brain come to be without a primordial intelligence to direct it?


We don't know exactly how DNA formed yet, but there's no reason to invoke a god of the gaps argument just as a placeholder until we do. We did that with gravity until it was discovered, same thing with disease until it was discovered. The origin of DNA is undoubtedly a natural occurrence of the process of evolution


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## superloud (Jun 21, 2015)

New Age United said:


> You are denying logic; there is no way to prove that any other being is conscious but do you honestly believe that you are the only conscious being; it is not rational to believe such a thing, it is in fact delusional.


Who said that I believe I am the only conscious being? I'm just saying if you are using the fact that we are too complex to just be as a reasoning for there to be a god. Then isn't that God who created us even more complex? And if we had to be made by a higher intelligent being then doesn't that mean God has to be made by an even more higher intelligent being?


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## New Age United (Jun 21, 2015)

superloud said:


> Who said that I believe I am the only conscious being? I'm just saying if you are using the fact that we are too complex to just be as a reasoning for there to be a god. Then isn't that God who created us even more complex? And if we had to be made by a higher intelligent being then doesn't that mean God has to be made by an even more higher intelligent being?


"I am, that I am" The Torah

What if God just is, never created or destroyed, no beginning and no end, it is a conscious and far greater intelligence at work in nature and perhaps one day it may be understood, it is really just the way of nature, probably more simple than we think really, but still the ultimate intelligence and governor of space time. It honestly seems to me that we as finite minds will never fully grasp the infinite and eternal.


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## Chester da Horse (Jun 21, 2015)

Here, i fixed it for you...

What if the universe just is, never created or destroyed, no beginning and no end, it is a conscious and far greater natural process at work in the universe and perhaps one day it may be understood, it is really just the way of nature, probably more simple than we think really, [strikethrough]but still the ultimate intelligence and governor of space time[/strikethrough]

It honestly seems to me that we as finite minds will never fully grasp the infinite and eternal.


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## thepenofareadywriter (Jun 21, 2015)

everything will continue to be, until there is nobody to wonder why and how


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## superloud (Jun 21, 2015)

New Age United said:


> "I am, that I am" The Torah
> 
> What if God just is, never created or destroyed, no beginning and no end, it is a conscious and far greater intelligence at work in nature and perhaps one day it may be understood, it is really just the way of nature, probably more simple than we think really, but still the ultimate intelligence and governor of space time. It honestly seems to me that we as finite minds will never fully grasp the infinite and eternal.


I don't think we ever will grasp it. But I think Believing in an all-powerful intelligent God that created all of us just existing is just as crazy as believing we all just exist


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## Chester da Horse (Jun 21, 2015)

thepenofareadywriter said:


> everything will continue to be, until there is nobody to wonder why and how


unless without a conscious observer to generate reality, the cosmos ceases to exist. We are stuck in a 'matter over mind' mindset in the modern west, but an equally valid alternative is to propose that consciousness ('thoughts') ARE the entirety of the universe and manifest as matter when they intersect


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## New Age United (Jun 22, 2015)

superloud said:


> I don't think we ever will grasp it. But I think Believing in an all-powerful intelligent God that created all of us just existing is just as crazy as believing we all just exist


Call me crazy, but what if we do just exist, the entire universe just exists, it just does. The universe exists as it is and that is just the nature of things, it's as if it had to be this way.


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## New Age United (Jun 22, 2015)

Chester da Horse said:


> unless without a conscious observer to generate reality, the cosmos ceases to exist. We are stuck in a 'matter over mind' mindset in the modern west, but an equally valid alternative is to propose that consciousness ('thoughts') ARE the entirety of the universe and manifest as matter when they intersect


And so how do these thoughts come into existence in the first place? 

There is more to consciousness than just thoughts; it is possible to stop thinking all together and remain conscious, Awareness.


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## Chester da Horse (Jun 22, 2015)

New Age United said:


> And so how do these thoughts come into existence in the first place?
> 
> There is more to consciousness than just thoughts; it is possible to stop thinking all together and remain conscious, Awareness.


I actually copy pasted this next thought from some other site thread because this dude seems to worded things in a more approachable way:

"Both Time and Thought work as one. Whenever Thoughts vanish, Time also vanish and vice-versa as in Deep Sleep, Watching Movies, During Love, Meditation, Samadhi etc. Past, Present and Future are mere illusions. Now itself is Timeless. There is only an unimaginable Timeless Moment. Past is a Memory. Future is an Anxiety. Present is Timeless. The Timeless 'Now' is only Real. Everything happens in the Eternal Now. Now is grasped only as an Eternal Awareness Presence. In the 'Timeless Now' there is no room for Thoughts. You are that Thoughtless Awareness. Anything based on Thoughts is purely conceptual.

All that happen in your mind are Unreal, meaning they just happen as Illusions like in Dreams, but in a different consistent order. Happiness and Bliss are experienced only in the Eternal Now. This Eternal Awareness aka Eternal Now itself is full of Bliss, Joy and Love. You can't be in the Eternal Now, but You are the Eternal Now itself. All Depressions, Anger, Worries are getting trapped in Mind. Mind is just a Fun Ride. Awareness itself manifests as Universe as a Fun Drama. When you are living in the 'Now' you feel alive and Happy, like children do. This is the Absolute Reality. By setting aside your Mind as Illusion, you can continue to lead a life, but in an Effortless Way. Thoughts and Awareness are Opposites in deed. Thoughts arise in Awareness like Waves arise in Ocean. When thoughts subside you become the Awareness, like when waves subside the Ocean becomes still. Awareness is Singular, meaning it Neither Exists nor does not exist, because it is Timeless. Time and Space exist inside the Awareness. You are not inside the World. The World is inside You. Awareness is 'IT IS WHAT IT IS'. YOU ARE THAT AWARENESS."​The simple human conceptualisations of linear time and individual/unique thought are a fallacy. Do you ever really know how a fresh, new idea comes into your head? Do you really generate something new in your neuronal network, or in moments of inspiration and creation, perhaps a fragment of universal consciousness is simply revealing itself to you in your head?


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## New Age United (Jun 23, 2015)

Chester da Horse said:


> I actually copy pasted this next thought from some other site thread because this dude seems to worded things in a more approachable way:
> 
> "Both Time and Thought work as one. Whenever Thoughts vanish, Time also vanish and vice-versa as in Deep Sleep, Watching Movies, During Love, Meditation, Samadhi etc. Past, Present and Future are mere illusions. Now itself is Timeless. There is only an unimaginable Timeless Moment. Past is a Memory. Future is an Anxiety. Present is Timeless. The Timeless 'Now' is only Real. Everything happens in the Eternal Now. Now is grasped only as an Eternal Awareness Presence. In the 'Timeless Now' there is no room for Thoughts. You are that Thoughtless Awareness. Anything based on Thoughts is purely conceptual.
> 
> All that happen in your mind are Unreal, meaning they just happen as Illusions like in Dreams, but in a different consistent order. Happiness and Bliss are experienced only in the Eternal Now. This Eternal Awareness aka Eternal Now itself is full of Bliss, Joy and Love. You can't be in the Eternal Now, but You are the Eternal Now itself. All Depressions, Anger, Worries are getting trapped in Mind. Mind is just a Fun Ride. Awareness itself manifests as Universe as a Fun Drama. When you are living in the 'Now' you feel alive and Happy, like children do. This is the Absolute Reality. By setting aside your Mind as Illusion, you can continue to lead a life, but in an Effortless Way. Thoughts and Awareness are Opposites in deed. Thoughts arise in Awareness like Waves arise in Ocean. When thoughts subside you become the Awareness, like when waves subside the Ocean becomes still. Awareness is Singular, meaning it Neither Exists nor does not exist, because it is Timeless. Time and Space exist inside the Awareness. You are not inside the World. The World is inside You. Awareness is 'IT IS WHAT IT IS'. YOU ARE THAT AWARENESS."​The simple human conceptualisations of linear time and individual/unique thought are a fallacy. Do you ever really know how a fresh, new idea comes into your head? Do you really generate something new in your neuronal network, or in moments of inspiration and creation, perhaps a fragment of universal consciousness is simply revealing itself to you in your head?


Very good post, thanks for sharing.


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## Chester da Horse (Jun 23, 2015)

This was the first enjoyable philosophy discussion I've seen in 4 months on this forum - it actually went somewhere, with multiple people all respectfully contributing unique perspectives and sharing alternative viewpoints without excessive internet troll crap.

Thank you.


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## MeinPorsche (Jun 23, 2015)

No one created the Universe. It does not need a creator. Here is a copy and paste from an article. 

The source of existence is a vibrational ether field that all existence is of and arises from as energetic, geometric forms that hold information keys of existence that materialize across different wave lengths. The ancient texts stated this and current non jewed science has shown the same in this time. The teachings are based on sound, number and form. the science of light. This has always existed it has no start or end.


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## Chester da Horse (Jun 23, 2015)

MeinPorsche said:


> No one created the Universe. It does not need a creator. Here is a copy and paste from an article.
> 
> The source of existence is a vibrational ether field that all existence is of and arises from as energetic, geometric forms that hold information keys of existence that materialize across different wave lengths. The ancient texts stated this and current non jewed science has shown the same in this time. The teachings are based on sound, number and form. the science of light. This has always existed it has no start or end.


those ancient texts you refer to, would that include the vedas by any chance?

Their true meaning is lost to man (ancient dead language and all) but it contains the concepts of cyclical time on a cosmic (trillion year) scale, the dual atomic/quantative or wave nature of energy and mass and the dualism of unmanifest and manifested energy representing all states of potential omnipresently. 

Quantum physics, string theory, the universal fundamental model of particle physics, the big bang, black hole singularity and event horizons, both theories of relativity and more are all crude fragmented pieces of the truth which our ancestors clearly understood.

And did you say 'non-jewed' science?, I think i love you


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## MeinPorsche (Jun 23, 2015)

Don't love me, love the guy I ripped it from 

edit: This is where it came from.
http://josministries.prophpbb.com/post44809.html#p44809


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## New Age United (Jun 27, 2015)

Chester da Horse said:


> those ancient texts you refer to, would that include the vedas by any chance?
> 
> Their true meaning is lost to man (ancient dead language and all) but it contains the concepts of cyclical time on a cosmic (trillion year) scale, the dual atomic/quantative or wave nature of energy and mass and the dualism of unmanifest and manifested energy representing all states of potential omnipresently.
> 
> ...


Yes I think I will take a look at the vedas.


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## Chester da Horse (Jun 27, 2015)

New Age United said:


> Yes I think I will take a look at the vedas.


be careful, they also include the methods for horse and fire sacrifice rituals to ensure a long reign or rain etc. in that sense, the literal and figurative/poetic interpretations of the sanskrit can be completely different.

I guess its a lot like the bible and quoran,


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