# More Reflective? Tin Foil Or flat White Paint?



## Mackaveli420 (Dec 29, 2008)

Whats more reflective? Regular old tin foil or regular old flat white paint?


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## needhelp (Dec 29, 2008)

many people on here say foil is bad and flat white paint is the way to go


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## Mackaveli420 (Dec 29, 2008)

yea I heard that too.

thx


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## NetsOne (Dec 29, 2008)

ok then i will have to paint the boxes i put around me garden and take off the foil... is this 100% that its better the white wall ?


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## stilltokin (Dec 29, 2008)

yea a white wall is the safest and good for reflection. Lots of people use mylar but then again it could cause heat spots if it has wrinkles in it. I just use my white walls.


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## diemdepyro (Dec 29, 2008)

I can not swear which is better but white paint is easier.....much easier.


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## Mackaveli420 (Dec 29, 2008)

what about panda film? is it reflective like paint and is it heat resistant?


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## smppro (Dec 29, 2008)

foylon, mylar, panda film, white paint, not ever use tin foil, in that order. I use flat white paint, i think it is like 88% reflective where mylar would be like 95%. But paint is cheap, available everywhere. Mylar you have to worry about wrinkling and tearing. A lot of people say that the wrapping paper with the backside that looks like mylar is actually mylar, but i dont know if that true


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## onenumcat (Dec 29, 2008)

the foil is much, much more reflective than white paint...which is why it creates hot spots and burns your plants.
if you must use foil, I've heard the _dull_ side facing your plants is better than the shiny side.


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## smppro (Dec 29, 2008)

onenumcat said:


> the foil is much, much more reflective than white paint...which is why it creates hot spots and burns your plants.
> if you must use foil, I've heard the _dull_ side facing your plants is better than the shiny side.


Sorry thats absolutely wrong, foil has the worst reflective properties, about 50-60%, no where near anything else, especially white paint


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## stilltokin (Dec 30, 2008)

go for white paint, it wont ever cause fire and with papers like mylar and all that it gets really loud and annoying if the wind from the fan gets behind em. I did that and I couldnt go to sleep coz i could hear it crinkle outside my room


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## OregonMeds (Dec 30, 2008)

onenumcat said:


> the foil is much, much more reflective than white paint...which is why it creates hot spots and burns your plants.
> if you must use foil, I've heard the _dull_ side facing your plants is better than the shiny side.


 
Yep completely wrong. Foil is 50% reflective. The problem with hotspots isn't that it reflects too much light it's that it reflects heat better than it does light.

There is a reason it's only made for cooking and you don't normally see aluminum foil on the shelves for any purpose other than just cooking.

A really good flat white paint is hard to beat. Even mylar that is brand new but not pulled perfectly flat is not as efficient as flat white paint. Dirty mylar is way less effective. And so on.

Behr Ultra Pure White FLAT wall paint is a really good one, or match that with a cheaper brand.


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## indianaman (Dec 30, 2008)

how bout sheets of cut styrofoam? i've heard that works really good if you have enough. fire hazard i think kinda.


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## smppro (Dec 30, 2008)

Not sure about styrofoam, better than foil i would guess, hell even white printer paper is better than foil. But paint is cheap and easy to paint back over


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## TeaTreeOil (Feb 10, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> Yep completely wrong. Foil is 50% reflective. The problem with hotspots isn't that it reflects too much light it's that it reflects heat better than it does light.


But heat _is_ light. Plants use *some* UV and IR, afaik! Aluminum does this far better than paint, as you state.

Shiny aluminum foil is between 85-95% reflective(the dull side is ~80%, Wikipedia). Flat white paint is basically the same reflectivity as the dull side(if you get the right paint, and can paint it properly, a skill in itself). Ideally you glue foil to cardboard, or another flat surface. Don't even try fancy shapes(curves,cones). Keep it wide and flat, shiny-side out. You could probably buff the foil surface for better results.

The conventional 'wisdom': "It's a bad reflector.. so use the less reflective side! No, no, no don't use it at all!"

The truth: it's a highly efficient reflector just shy of mylar, and better at reflection than generic white paint. Maybe a reflective paint would be better. The problem is people don't use foil correctly, and it's somewhat difficult to handle.

You really want a back reflector. You can increase directed usable light by 30-40%! Metal/specialty paint seems to be the best choice.

However coating distance surfaces will not help much. At greater distances it just matters less. White paint is great for distances greater than a few inches. Plus it's easier(maybe).

I had one box with aluminum foil just on the top(glued on) reflecting back(1" away or so from light), and another identical box/lights with just white paint. The aluminum foil seemed to promote a more powerful and more balanced light spread and even temperature. I don't know what these 'hot spots' are.... I've only used floros.

EDIT: White enamel paint has 80-85%*. White *POWDER* coat is where you can hit 90%*. Your bucket of white paint is probably well under 85%. Wikipedia lists shiny aluminum foil at 88%.

Also, the shape of the reflector matters more than the material(given aluminum, mylar, or white paint)*!

But sheet aluminum would be a much better idea, it's insanely cheap, mirror-finished, and rigid enough to move around a bit, doesn't crinkle. Sheet aluminum has been used in the lighting industry for decades*.

*Source: Applied Illumination Engineering By Jack L. Lindsey
http://books.google.com/books?id=0d7u9Nr33zIC&pg=PA483&lpg=PA483&dq=aluminum+reflector++comparison&source=web&ots=WyLgL914LS&sig=P35u62EonubVtf7JTA444k0nDeo&hl=en&ei=G9-RSeX0EYmMsAPdk4StCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result


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## onenumcat (Feb 10, 2009)

*


Mackaveli420 said:



Whats more reflective? Regular old tin foil or regular old flat white paint?

Click to expand...

* that was the original question. my answer, 'the foil is much, much more reflective than white paint...which is why it creates hot spots and burns your plants.
if you must use foil, I've heard the _dull_ side facing your plants is better than the shiny side.', was correct, thank you very much. he didn't say he wanted to use foil to reflect light on plants. I was correct, but didn't want to have to defend myself alone.



OregonMeds said:


> Yep completely wrong. Foil is 50% reflective. The problem with hotspots isn't that it reflects too much light it's that it reflects heat better than it does light.
> 
> There is a reason it's only made for cooking and you don't normally see aluminum foil on the shelves for any purpose other than just cooking.
> 
> ...


a white surface reflects wave energy and diffuses it(if the surface is rough, like matte paint, while a black surface absorbs light(radiation actually) and converts its energy to heat, thereby radiating heat. a shiny metal, especially a 'silvered' one, reflects much more light than a white surface, but also most of the heat, the surface is smooth. which is why a dulled or burnished(not smooth) silvery metal is way better than a white surface...for _reflection_...that is why hoods/reflectors, for plant lights, are a dull silvery metal, whatever it's material, _not white_, and they're sold for redirecting light, *only*...and for no other purpose. and that is why, when you shop online for a hood, it ain't white inside. or go to the garden store, you will not find paint to be used as a bulb reflector.(however, some shops may sell it to paint a dark surface near your grow, so the dark surface won't absorb the light and produce heat)
I did state that the foil will cause hotspots...hot, as in heat, being the key part of that word...it will burn your plants!



TeaTreeOil said:


> But heat _is_ light. Plants use *some* UV and IR, afaik! Aluminum does this far better than paint, as you state.
> 
> Shiny aluminum foil is between 85-95% reflective(the dull side is ~80%, Wikipedia). Flat white paint is basically the same reflectivity as the dull side(if you get the right paint, and can paint it properly, a skill in itself). Ideally you glue foil to cardboard, or another flat surface. Don't even try fancy shapes(curves,cones). Keep it wide and flat, shiny-side out. You could probably buff the foil surface for better results.
> 
> ...



thanks for the _good_ info and the references, but not quite accurate about 'light n heat'. shiny aluminum is great for reflecting light/heat, ie; street lamp, spot light, flachlight, headlight, disco balls, etc. etc, but for the same reason, shitty for plants...it burns them by refocusing the wavelengths to a smaller area, intensifying it. the research I found states, 'Infrared radiation is popularly known as "heat" or sometimes "heat radiation", since many people attribute all radiant heating to infrared light and/or to all infrared radiation to being a result of heating. This is a widespread misconception, since light and electromagnetic waves of any frequency will heat surfaces that absorb them. Infrared light from the Sun only accounts for 49% of the heating of the Earth, with the rest being caused by visible light that is absorbed then re-radiated at longer wavelengths'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared






'cool'<----------------------------------------------------->'hot'

the sun is 'hot' because it emits radiation.

infrared is 'hot' because the wavelengths are much longer than say >300nm, which is like a purple light(black light). it's wavelengths are short. short wavelengths don't 'penetrate', they're too weak, so aren't absorbed and produce little or no heat. infrared resides at <700nm up to about 3000nm, far beyond red light(which is quite hot and is also the end of visible light for humans @800nm or so). the further you go down the spectrum the cooler 'light' becomes, because it's not actually the 'light' that is hot, but rather the radiation. 'light is a by product of radiation. the rate, and amount, of wavelengths(radiation) being absorbed by a substance, determines how 'hot' it gets. there are other factors also, I'll not get into them...it's quite complex. the 'light' from the sun, in space, is 'cool', as long as it doesn't strike anything that reflects it's energy. if something was actually blacker than black, and there are things like that, some made by man, like dark matter...(or a black hole...which isn't really black at all, lol, the gravity is what pulls light particles in...), it would absorb _all_ particles\wavelengths and give nothing off in return...
http://www.core77.com/blog/materials/new_black_material_is_blacker_than_black_8699.asp
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3356-mini-craters-key-to-blackest-ever-black.html

short version is 'white' doesn't absorb most wavelengths, so doesn't convert that radiation to heat. 'black' does do that. reflectivity is determined by the surface also, not only the color. a shiny black surface will reflect light. a shiny surface reflects wavelengths, it cannot 'absorb' wavelengths because the surface is too smooth, much smoother than say, white paint, except for gloss. gloss reflects a lot of wavelengths, in one direction, causing 'hotspots', just like polished metal because the surface is smooth. a 'matte' surface will diffuse light in many more directions than 'glossy' because the surface is not smooth. finally, the heat of light is caused by friction, waves or particles striking a solid or even semi-solid, like air or water.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071207101851AA4qBqf
http://potatoland.com/glart/week4/GLART_4_sphere_light_color.java

there are ways to produce heatless light.
here are a few links;
http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/HOMEEXPTS/Chemilum.html
http://www.sandia.gov/media/NewsRel/NR2002/tungsten.htm
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/eng99/eng99569.htm


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## TeaTreeOil (Feb 10, 2009)

So why are most high-end reflectors/commercial grow reflectors dimpled anodized aluminum with ~95% reflectivity? And the rest(90%?) are just plane aluminum, sometimes powder coated. The reflectively fairs 85-95% from 200-1000nm except a dip around 800 or so down to 85%. Just look at it! http://www.answers.com/topic/reflectivity

Any thoughts on ideal lux? As for heat, try a fan. In a small grow the reflective efficiency of aluminum (sheet or foil) could be pretty beneficial over alternatives. If you got crafty you could bend some thicker sheets into your own fixtures/reflectors. If you really get excited about it, powder coat!

http://www.4hydroponics.com/lighting/reflectorsSS.asp
"textured aluminum" aka "crinkled up and re-flattened aluminum foil" hmmmm

Here's an interesting article: http://www.usu.edu/cpl/research_spectral10.htm
Final one: http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.com/spectroscope/elements.html <-pretty good, but lengthy


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## bterz (Feb 10, 2009)

FLAT WHITE PAINT FTW.

FOIL doesnt reflect light, only heat.


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## bterz (Feb 10, 2009)

Looks like I joined a knee-deep convo lol i'll stay outta this one!


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## onenumcat (Feb 11, 2009)

TeaTreeOil said:


> So why are most high-end reflectors/commercial grow reflectors dimpled anodized aluminum with ~95% reflectivity? And the rest(90%?) are just plane aluminum, sometimes powder coated. The reflectively fairs 85-95% from 200-1000nm except a dip around 800 or so down to 85%. Just look at it! http://www.answers.com/topic/reflectivity
> 
> Any thoughts on ideal lux? As for heat, try a fan. In a small grow the reflective efficiency of aluminum (sheet or foil) could be pretty beneficial over alternatives. If you got crafty you could bend some thicker sheets into your own fixtures/reflectors. If you really get excited about it, powder coat!
> 
> ...


anodized only protects the metal from corrosion, has nothing to do with reflectivity. but you're correct, which was the point I was making, a textured or not shiny aluminum is far superior to a textured white. however, the shiny aluminum is not better than 'glossy white', which ain't to 'hot', lol, either. my hoods are dimples and 'scratched' all over, they've been burnished, the shine has been removed, and more. I'll get a pic up, but the lights are on now and all you'll see is 'white' light. a powder coat is good...if it's white, it reflects light, but it's main purpose, as being textured, is to diffuse light. it doesn't reflect heat, good.
the aluminum will reflect more heat, even non-shiny like mine.
simply, the flatter a reflective surface is, the more light, and heat, it will reflect, in one direction. surfaces, that are white or light colored, and textured, will reflect light in a diffused pattern, covering a larger area, emitting less heat. a pure reflective surface, no color, silvered, reflects in one direction, and heat also, and the metal itself will radiate heat. a textured aluminum, will diffuse light and heat, however it will also radiate heat. no matter what, unless its painted, then the 'surface' isn't aluminum, its paint...aluminum will always be hotter than a painted surface. but is does 'reflect' light better than white paint.


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## TeaTreeOil (Feb 11, 2009)

Corrosion decreases reflectivity, anodized prevents this, so it does help in the long run. Glossy paint has a higher specular intensity, going in the direction of, but not near to Al. Maybe with special paint, or titanium dioxide, silver, or gold reflectors....

I don't know if diffused light is best for paints. They seem to all go towards the bulb(s), so the best complete reflection/replication of that light would seem to be the best attractor and have the best benefit. Al does this better than white house paint. If you paint the area in several coats of titanium dioxide I've seen charts stating over 100% reflectivity(it 'glows' from 0-500~550nm), dropping to 98% or so around 700nm, and even more afterwards.

Has anyone ever tried coating aluminum foil or sheet with titanium dioxide? Or another chemical like magnesium fluoride?

Aluminum foil as a reflector might be a bad idea for HPS(+1000C arc or so?), or other HID(more of the same) lighting. But I think for CFLs that operate under 130F or so normally.. add a fan... it's probably really beneficial, and the fan will divert a lot of the heat. Any generated heat will keep it dryer, and Mary loves this.

Begs the question how a well-reflected lower-powered set-up could compare with a higher powered set-up with poor or no reflection.


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## onenumcat (Feb 12, 2009)

TeaTreeOil said:


> Corrosion decreases reflectivity, anodized prevents this, so it does help in the long run. Glossy paint has a higher specular intensity, going in the direction of, but not near to Al. Maybe with special paint, or titanium dioxide, silver, or gold reflectors....
> 
> I don't know if diffused light is best for paints. They seem to all go towards the bulb(s), so the best complete reflection/replication of that light would seem to be the best attractor and have the best benefit. Al does this better than white house paint. If you paint the area in several coats of titanium dioxide I've seen charts stating over 100% reflectivity(it 'glows' from 0-500~550nm), dropping to 98% or so around 700nm, and even more afterwards.
> 
> ...


that's very true...and a really great point. how can you get 'hotspots' from a source that produces such a small amount of heat??
it's not like a magnifying glass!! lol it doesn't refocus, it reflects...big difference, right? if foil only has light to reflect...will it still produce heat? I think it won't/can't...as I said before, 'light' doesn't actually produce the heat, the infrared radiation does, through friction. flouros, probably, emit little or no infrared waves...cuz not all spectrums of light contain infrared or in quantities associated with 'heat'.


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## onenumcat (Feb 13, 2009)

so, I found this niffty chart that shows all rays from the sun, including a light chart...just for info


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## needhelp (Feb 14, 2009)

damn... after sparking something up... your chart is very confusing... all i see is colors, words and numbers... just can't put it together...maybe nextime


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## Brick Top (Feb 14, 2009)

onenumcat said:


> that's very true...and a really great point. how can you get 'hotspots' from a source that produces such a small amount of heat??


 
Ask yourself why someone gets hot spots using aluminum foil? 

The answer is unequal light distribution/reflection directing more to one or some areas than to others. 

Regardless of what type of lighting you use you want the most equal distribution/reflection of light as is possible to best cover all your plants as much as they can be covered with light. So while you may not risk actual hot spots using aluminum foil with CFLs you still risk uneven/unequal light distribution/reflection and if so that means some areas will receive more light and other areas less light and the plants or parts of plants getting less light will not get all they could otherwise get and maybe not all they need especially since the person is using CFL's which to not put out light like HID lighting. 

So while you may not be risking hot spots you will be risking low light distribution/reflection areas. Not a danger like hot spots but not optimal conditions for plants either. 
 
When it comes to equal light distribution/reflection that has pretty much been figured out years ago so I just do not see any reason to try to reinvent the wheel. Reflecting/distributing light of any kind is basically the same and you want the same thing from it. And that is the most equal and even coverage of light that you can attain regardless of the source of the light.


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## I.AM.WEASEL (Feb 14, 2009)

Tin foil IS SHIT FOR REFLECTING!!!! its a fire hazard and causes hot spots. the Aluminium molecules turn the light into internal energy.. and thus light is lost..... flat white paint all the way trust me!!!


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## onenumcat (Feb 14, 2009)

Brick Top said:


> Ask yourself why someone gets hot spots using aluminum foil?
> 
> The answer is unequal light distribution/reflection directing more to one or some areas than to others.
> 
> ...


every word true and correct, until the very end...the wheel has been reinvented...it's called flight. and things figured out long ago...are constantly being rethought, reconfigured, redesigned, reinvented and redone...thats a lot of 're', lol. just look at the train...from steam, provided from diff sources ie; wood, coal, ethanol, and who knows what else(thats called a redesign), to diesel, to electric, to electromagnetic(termed Maglev for magnetic levitation)...if those ppl, who have made those...changes had thought like you're doing now, we'd all be pushing wheel barrows! some ppl like to think 'outta the box', it's the 'mother of all invention'.
but you're not incorrect, I just disagree with the way you're thinking...
Personally, I use a light mover, so don't have that problem...by the way, I concived, designed, and built it myself...it is revolutionary, imho.

see the link to my circular light mover here; 
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/155955-wind-powered-rotating-dual-hid.html

or videos here; http://www.youtube.com/onenumcat


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## closetkiller (Feb 14, 2009)

i make light hoods for my self and seveal friends. all are aluminum, tried anodized and high gloss white. the white works much better and does not get as hot.


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## indianaman (Feb 14, 2009)

i bought a big 4x50 foot roll of mylar


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## L3thal420 (Feb 14, 2009)

would painting a reflector white instead of using the stock dimpled aluminum give better reflectivity?


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## onenumcat (Feb 14, 2009)

L3thal420 said:


> would painting a reflector white instead of using the stock dimpled aluminum give better reflectivity?


see, all the ppl who said 'white is more reflective' are gonna tell you yes. imo, it's no, otherwise, the manufacturer wouldn't have gone throught all the trouble, time, and expense to dimple it. those dimples, refract, diffuse, light...and heat, so it isn't refocused to one spot, hence the name 'hot spot', they would have just painted it white, which is much less trouble, takes less time, and is much, much cheaper to do!!!!!!!! this, however, is only true if the manufacturer intended the unit to be used for growing or outdoors. the majority of indoor, home use primarily, not a gymnasium or a factory, hoods/reflectors are white. this is because our eyes are too sensitive to take the brightness provided by dimples, dulled, burnished, scored, or similarly unshined aluminum or aluminium for you brits. such lighting is generally positioned above our heads, but not very high. imagine, if every time you looked up, in your home, you got blinded! that wouldn't apply in a gym or factory...the ceiling is not 8 ft high...more like 15-20, idk, really, how high, but much higher. you think they paint the light reflectors in a football stadium white, on either side of the atlantic?? you think big green house companies use white hoods??? the dimpled, etc. hoods are designed for outdoor, large areas...and indoor/suplemental lighting, including botanical uses...I'm done here.

plain foil is never 'better' for your grow, than flat white paint. the title of this thread, however, never asked the question that that answer pertains to...._any 'mirror' surface reflects more waves, which light is, than a white one, period._

if you take a look at all, four pages, of the light reflectors at this popular garden supply site, none are white on the inside and most, if not all, are textured in some way...and they all say 'more reflective than white' and 'duffuse heat...blah, blah, blah'.
http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/lights.shtml
unsubscribed


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## Brick Top (Feb 14, 2009)

onenumcat said:


> every word true and correct, until the very end...*the wheel has been reinvented...it's called flight*.


 
That depends on how you look at it. Airplanes rely on wheels so the wheel itself was never replaced or reinvented by airplanes it was just incorporated into airplanes. 


Even helicopters and vertical takeoff and landing aircraft have wheels. Trains run on steel wheels. Cars definitely run on wheels. 

The wheel itself was never really reinvented but instead incorporated into newer designs of various things. 

Materials wheels are made of have been improved on and they are no longer made of stone or wood but they are still wheels.


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## Brick Top (Feb 14, 2009)

L3thal420 said:


> would painting a reflector white instead of using the stock dimpled aluminum give better reflectivity?


 
My opinion is that dimpled aluminum would be better at distributing light over a broader/wider area than a flat piece of aluminum or some other metal painted white. 

In the case of straight or direct reflection I guess it is possible that white would reflect better but dimpling spreads out the light and white alone cannot do that. 

Maybe the better question to ask would be would a dimpled hood that is painted white be better than a plain aluminum dimpled hood?


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## onenumcat (Feb 14, 2009)

Brick Top said:


> That depends on how you look at it. Airplanes rely on wheels so the wheel itself was never replaced or reinvented by airplanes it was just incorporated into airplanes.
> 
> 
> Even helicopters and vertical takeoff and landing aircraft have wheels. Trains run on steel wheels. Cars definitely run on wheels.
> ...


ok, then use the train metaphor...either way, we've gone past the wheel, why not other things.....

and ...you missed the point completely...I wasn't trying to redirect the topic to aircraft...of any kind, nor cars, nor trains, nor wheel barrows for that matter...

ok, really this time...
unsubscribed sick o this


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## xogenic (Feb 14, 2009)

afternoon folk 


i would say use either flat white paint or the insides of crisp packets [the shiny stuff] 

tinfoil is a bad idea as it is designed to reflect heat also so can cause either heat spots behind the foli and burn the room down or light concentration on your plants and burn them


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## indianaman (Feb 14, 2009)

onenumcat said:


> ok, then use the train metaphor...either way, we've gone past the wheel, why not other things.....


i love wheels.... what do you have against wheels buddy?

i don't think we can beat the wheel.


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## onenumcat (Feb 14, 2009)

indianaman said:


> i love wheels.... what do you have against wheels buddy?
> 
> i don't think we can beat the wheel.


then you better wake up and smell the future!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_levitation_train


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## closetkiller (Feb 14, 2009)

L3thal420 said:


> would painting a reflector white instead of using the stock dimpled aluminum give better reflectivity?


 i don't think so. at least not enough better to offset the cost of paint.if it was all the factory hoods would be white.


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## indianaman (Feb 14, 2009)

what... flying cars... still need wheels.
got any better ideas.
didn't think so.


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## Brick Top (Feb 14, 2009)

onenumcat said:


> ok, then use the train metaphor...either way, we've gone past the wheel, why not other things.....


 
I dont want to swerve the thread so I will not say any more on the subject after this but trains run on wheels, just wheels with what may be called lips or edges that protrude and that is not a reinvention as much as it is an adaptation. It just keeps the wheels on the tracks like a pulley is a wheel and it may have a groove or edge/lip to keep whatever runs on it from slipping off, but it is still just a wheel, just one that has been adapted but not reinvented. 

The Wright brothers first aircraft hardly resembles a modern fighter aircraft but neither aircraft or flight was reinvented. The first, the aircraft, relies on the very same basic principals but was adapted for better performance and capabilities and the other, flight, remained the same, it is still flight. 

Adapting or tweaking or improving something or using something for a different purpose than it was originally intended to be used but still retains the same basic design and or function is not reinventing something.


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## TeaTreeOil (Feb 14, 2009)

L3thal420 said:


> would painting a reflector white instead of using the stock dimpled aluminum give better reflectivity?


No. It gives better diffusion. But it's already dimpled, which is done to diffuse light.


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## indianaman (Feb 14, 2009)

is mylar any good? i got the 2mm


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## TeaTreeOil (Feb 14, 2009)

indianaman said:


> is mylar any good? i got the 2mm


Metalized Aluminum on (boPET) nylon fibers, typically coated. Can't go wrong there. Up to 99% reflective.


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## indianaman (Feb 14, 2009)

whoa! flippin' sweet. i'm using the whole roll. no white paint for me.


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## HappySack (Feb 14, 2009)

Let's think this through! Panda will seal the room, and reflect. Then use a carbon scrubber, or onna jelly. If $ is an issue, then paint, not that tin foil is cheap or a better reflector than flat white. I like Panda, it makes you hair stand up when you install it! It is kinda hard to install by your self. It looks so clean!


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## indianaman (Feb 14, 2009)

mylar is shiny.... pretty.


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## HappySack (Feb 14, 2009)

Fuck re-inventing the damn wheel, just go to something better!


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## indianaman (Feb 15, 2009)

oh it's that again...

hovercars.....
with emergency wheels.


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## herbtoker420 (Oct 4, 2009)

this was the most annoying thread ive ever read on RIU


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## puntacometa (Oct 4, 2009)

smppro said:


> Sorry thats absolutely wrong, foil has the worst reflective properties, about 50-60%, no where near anything else, especially white paint


I am considering the use of a product that is labelled Super Reflective Metallized 2ml Film.

It is sold at the local hydroponics store. It must be carefully hung/taped and stapled so that it does not wrinkle, but when properly done, looks almost like a big mirror. 

Would this be a big mistake? I'm definitely new at this but I'm building a new grow room (I posted a separate thread about this).

Thanks in advance.


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## Tgibba (Oct 5, 2009)

Try Reflectix


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## smppro (Oct 6, 2009)

puntacometa said:


> I am considering the use of a product that is labelled Super Reflective Metallized 2ml Film.
> 
> It is sold at the local hydroponics store. It must be carefully hung/taped and stapled so that it does not wrinkle, but when properly done, looks almost like a big mirror.
> 
> ...


if its coming from a hydro shop then it should be for growing, sounds like you are describing mylar


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## growin an smokin (Oct 6, 2009)

I've used both paint and mylar. I like the mylar. I was told the first time that I used the mylar don't trip on the wrinkles.I have wrinkles in my mylar seems to work fine.


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## Straight up G (Oct 6, 2009)

Mackaveli420 said:


> Whats more reflective? Regular old tin foil or regular old flat white paint?


I am using white paint but it has a new founded Lumitec formulation and reflects up to twice as much light as other paint.

Dont you mean Machiavelli, the famous Italian philosopher from the 1500's, Pac based his album the don killuminati [the 7 day theory]- he read at length about Machiavelli in jail. 

Have you noticed that out of Makaveli [Pac's slant on the name] you can spell "Am alive" and the remaining K is thought to be some kind of clue as to his whereabouts or piece of a MUCH larger puzzle..


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## Brick Top (Oct 6, 2009)

*GrowRoom Reflectivity* 
permalink

*Choosing the right surface for the walls of your grow room is very important, as up to 40% of your total yield comes from the edge, and the right wall surface can increase the amount of light those plants receive by up to 30%! Artificial lighting diminishes exponentially with distance, so it is important to &#8216;contain&#8217; as much of this light as possible, and direct it accordingly. Reflective surfaces also help illuminate the lower portions of the garden, providing lower buds with light and heat energy. *

*To get the best results with your light and walls, it is important to get the walls as close as possible to your garden to ensure the least amount of light is wasted. As a caveat, the percentages provided are only useful as a general guideline, as they present the range of reflectivity of the particular surfaces. The high percentage presents the best possible circumstances for that material (for example a 99% reflectivity rating for mylar sheeting would be under ideal conditions - no creases, completely flat, no discoloration, etc). *

*The best way to determine how well your grow room walls reflect light would be to purchase a light meter and measure your light directly; then take an opaque board and hold it a few inches off one of your walls with the light meter below the board in such a fashion that the light reflects off the wall and onto the light meter. You can then compare the difference between the two and determine a percentage from those numbers, the closer the two numbers are, the better your wall reflects light. It is important that in both measurements, your light meter is the same distance from the light, otherwise your results will be skewed. *

*Also important to note is that radiant light energy refers to electromagnetic (EM) radiation with a wavelength between 400-700 nanometers (nm) and radiant heat energy correlates to EM radiation with a wavelength between 800-2000nm. *

*Listed below are some of the most commonly used materials used for grow room walls: *

*




Foylon: *

*A more durable version of mylar, made of spun polyester fabric and reinforced with foil laminate. Foylon is resistant to most solutions, won't tear or fade, and can be wiped or washed clean. *

*A great solution for growers who are interested in long term use, and though it may be slightly more expensive than mylar, its durability will more than make up for its cost. It has the ability to reflect about 95% of the light and approximately 85% of the heat energy, so a good ventilation system should be used in conjunction with folyon. *

*A recommended method to attach Foylon to the walls would be using Velcro, as it makes taking it down for cleaning much easier nd reduces the risk of tearing, creasing or bending it. If this is used for your walls, making sure you get it flush with the wall with no pockets of air between it and the wall to prevent hotspots. *

*




Mylar: *

*A highly reflective polyester film that comes in varying thickness, the most common being 1 and 2 mm thick. The 2mm thick mylar while not quite as durable as the foylon, is fairly rugged. The 1mm thick mylar tears fairly easily, so taking it down for cleaning is quite difficult without damaging it in the process. Both types of mylar are able to reflect approximately 92-97% reflective, giving it the potential to be more reflective than foylon, but because foylon is more easily cleaned without damaging it as well as it being harder to crease, foylon usually ends up being slightly more reflective. Important to note is that mylar reflects radiant heat energy just as well as foylon (around 85%), so proper ventilation is necessary if mylar is used in your grow room. Attaching this to walls can be done in a similar fashion as foylon, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room. The 1mm thick mylar stands a fair chance of being creased or ripped in the process unfortunately, even if Velcro is used to attach to the walls. *

*C3 anti-detection film: (I'd sleep better at night if I had this.)*

*A specialized type of mylar that exhibits the same properties as the 2mm thick mylar, but in addition to reflecting approximately 92-97% of the light, it also is 90% infrared proof, making your grow room all but invisible to IR scanning. This can also be attached in the same manner as foylon or mylar, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room. *

*Flat white paint: *

*Self explanatory; a great option for large grow rooms or for people who are interested in a low maintenance wall. Flat white paint has the ability to reflect between 75-85% of the light, and does not create hotspots. Adding a fungicide is recommended when painting. *

*Glossy and eggshell whites not reflect light as efficiently as flat white. Semi-gloss paint for example, only has the ability to reflect between 55-60% of the light. Also important to remember when using paint is that any smears or blemishes on the surface take away from how reflective the wall is so care should be taken to avoid marking or staining the walls. Titanium white paint is very reflective; however it is usually only used on reflectors due to its high cost. *


*White/Black plastic (also known as panda plastic or "poly"): *

*"Poly" is useful if you are setting up a temporary grow room or don&#8217;t want to damage the walls. Poly is easily cleaned. *

*The purpose of the black side is to not allow any light to pass through the plastic, which ensures your dark cycle remains dark. The white side is 75-90% reflective. Choose a 6 "mill" thickness of poly for maximum light blockage and duribility. *

*If this plastic is put too close to the light, you will obviously melt it so be careful!. Panda plastic does not create hotspots. Poly can be attached to the walls by using carpenter&#8217;s nails or using tape glue or similar means. This can be used as a cheap alternative to mylar if painting your grow room is out of the question. *

*Polystyrene Foam Sheeting (more commonly known as Styrofoam): *

*This is excellent for harsh environment growrooms (your attic for example), provided you have a good ventilation system and a way to keep the temperatures from rising too high (an a/c unit or similar) as it is an excellent insulator. *

*It is also a great material for use in a temporary setup or for use as a "travelling reflector" on a light mover, where weight is a concern. It is approximately 75-85% light reflective so it is comparable to using a flat white paint. Foam will not create hot spots. Rigid foam can be purchased in sheets, and can be used as a free standing wall or can be taped, glued or nailed to the wall, the last generally being the most successful method. *

*




Emergency Blankets: *

*These are ultra thin polyester blankets that are sold in most camping stores and are constructed of a single layer of polyester film that is covered with a layer of vapor deposited aluminum. *

*It is not very effective at reflecting light because it is so thin. Holding it between you and a light source, many small holes are noticed at the intersections of creases and the entire blanket is translucent to begin with, this coupled with the many creases that are in it when you purchase it takes away a significant amount of it reflectivity. It is very easily creased as well which also detracts from its ability to reflect light. And while it is reflects nearly 90% of radiant heat energy, it is only able to reflect around 70% of the light. *

*The largest advantage of using this type of material is that it is very cheap and therefore easily replaced. Emergency blankets can create hotspots if not attached flush to the wall so it is important that no air gaps exist between it and your supporting wall. The easiest way to attach this is to use tape (Aluminum or metal tape is recommended), as it tears very easily once it is cut or punctured. *

*Aluminum Foil: *

*Aluminum foil is no more than 55% reflective - if used, make sure that the dull side is the one that is used to reflect the light. When it becomes creased its reflectivity is even lower (around 35%.) It is also very dangerous to use because it creates hotspots easily, is electrically conductive, and is a fire hazard when it is in close contact with HID lighting. Attaching this to walls is a pain and usually using aluminum tape or glue is the best way. This should only be used as a last resort, and even then its usefulness is questionable.*


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## Straight up G (Oct 6, 2009)

Dragged some of this up for ya, and theres much much more out there..

Tupac changed his rap name to "Makaveli." Nicolo Machiavelli was an Italian war strategist who wrote about faking one's death to fool his enemies. Tupac was an avid reader of Machiavelli and had read his books several times.

Tupac was cremated the day after he died. There was no reported autopsy even though he was murdered. Why was the evidence not even investigated and destroyed so quickly?

In spite of his "death," Tupac has completed two movies, three LP's and continues to appear on other artists' albums. Merchandise sales skyrocket after an artist is killed. Perhaps Tupac completed all this work so that he could release them after his faked death in order to cash in on the controversy surrounding it. Or perhaps he continues to work and cash in on his "death."

Las Vegas [Pac was shot in Las Vegas Nevada] is known as a "payoff city," meaning that many people, including doctors and press, could have been in on Tupac faking his death. 

The Seven Day Theory. This is a numerological theory that suggests that Tupac will return seven years after his death. The number seven keeps popping up in the events that surrounded his death. He was shot seven days after "All Eyez on Me" was released. He was shot on Sept. 7 and survived for seven more days. The title of his new album is "The Don Killuminati: The 7 Day Theory." 

The vehicle that Tupac and Suge Knight were in during the shooting was shot twelve times, yet Knight was not even hit once. Instead, he was "grazed" by a bullet.


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## Straight up G (Oct 6, 2009)

He's alive and laughing.


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## Straight up G (Oct 6, 2009)

And probably smoking a fat blunt.


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## trulojik (Oct 6, 2009)

its not ' am alive' its 
'I AM ALIVE' or is it 'EVIL AM I'
but wat about the 'K'???

fuc*K* it

.. oh ryt, ther it is!!!

!! im high !!


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## 1STxTimeGrower (Oct 6, 2009)

i heard that to that foil is bad and to go with FLAT white paint. neways i have aluminum foil all over my little veg box and the foil doesnt get hot im useing cfls to veg my plants but idk? it doesnt seem to be going well but i guess that happens for the 1st time


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## trulojik (Oct 6, 2009)

oh and bruv white paint is the best
*no nails/staples/glue involved
*cheap (mylar costs lyk £100 a roll cuz!)
*u can cova everything! (every little crack and corna can b sorted with jus a lik of paint)

what do u think?


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## guitarzan420 (Oct 6, 2009)

foil is not good to use. too easy to burn plants


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## Straight up G (Oct 6, 2009)

trulojik said:


> its not ' am alive' its
> 'I AM ALIVE' or is it 'EVIL AM I'
> but wat about the 'K'???
> 
> ...


Erm, no- how many i's can you count in Makaveli- *thats the way Pac spelt it on his album cover* unless you have your own special way to spell it..


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## trulojik (Oct 7, 2009)

bro did u delete my post??

im not tryna b rude... '(so called)straight up G' jus cant seem to b able to take a joke

no offence to u mate


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## smppro (Nov 3, 2009)

Holy shit has this thread got out of control, you got people saying aluminum foil is better and trying to prove it, wow!?


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## xogenic (Nov 3, 2009)

hahaha only thing foil is good for is my tinfoil hat to stop the governmet readin my thoughts


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## storkypig (Nov 7, 2009)

stilltokin said:


> yea a white wall is the safest and good for reflection. Lots of people use mylar but then again it could cause heat spots if it has wrinkles in it. I just use my white walls.


I got Coleman Emergency Blankets and from what I read these are more reflective than the white pain...it also does several things that help plant growth. Mylar is aluminized polyester...mylar is just their brand name...so, never feel like you have to get "Mylar"...just get "metalized/aluminzed polyester...same thing


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## storkypig (Nov 7, 2009)

smppro said:


> Holy shit has this thread got out of control, you got people saying aluminum foil is better and trying to prove it, wow!?


Aluminized Polyester is awesome...it is the same thing as mylar..mylar is just the brand name dupont made...


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## Mikey Hustle (Nov 7, 2009)

onenumcat said:


> the foil is much, much more reflective than white paint...which is why it creates hot spots and burns your plants.
> if you must use foil, I've heard the _dull_ side facing your plants is better than the shiny side.



I did a test on my 2nd grow (Im currently on my 3rd). 1 wall was white, and the other was shiny mylar. (9x5x7 room)

White won hands down. And tin foil is just messy & ugly.


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## Straight up G (Nov 8, 2009)

xogenic said:


> hahaha only thing foil is good for is my tinfoil hat to stop the governmet readin my thoughts


Agreed 100%.


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## Straight up G (Nov 8, 2009)

Mikey Hustle said:


> I did a test on my 2nd grow (Im currently on my 3rd). 1 wall was white, and the other was shiny mylar. (9x5x7 room)
> 
> White won hands down. And tin foil is just messy & ugly.


Thankyou


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## blackbellychimp (Apr 27, 2013)

Brick Top said:


> *GrowRoom Reflectivity*
> permalink
> 
> *Choosing the right surface for the walls of your grow room is very important, as up to 40% of your total yield comes from the edge, and the right wall surface can increase the amount of light those plants receive by up to 30%! Artificial lighting diminishes exponentially with distance, so it is important to contain as much of this light as possible, and direct it accordingly. Reflective surfaces also help illuminate the lower portions of the garden, providing lower buds with light and heat energy. *
> ...


Where did you get that figure that Aluminum foil is no more than 55% reflective?


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## unix60959 (Apr 27, 2013)

i think the only pro for tin foil is that its cheap lol.


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