# Should my HID lights hang vertical or horizontal for maximum penetration?



## Stonefree69 (May 4, 2012)

Straight from the *Hydrofarm site *(for 8" Cooltube):

*Q:* Should my HID lights hang vertical or horizontal for maximum penetration?
*A: * Studies have shown that a horizontal positioned bulb and reflector unit will
provide superior light penetration to a garden compared to vertical orientation.
However, both styles are acceptable for cultivation.

Guess they've never heard of Heath Robinson! Or tried to use tube sans internal and external reflectors, or a bulb w/no tubes
at all.


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## nuglets (May 4, 2012)

if you position your plants right then growing vertically is more efficient. some people just don't have the space for it or prefer to grow larger plants which is hard in a vertical setup.


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## smoke and coke (May 4, 2012)

i use the vertical stadium grow and works well in my space. i hang the bulbs vertical about 2 1/2 -3 feet apart. under the bulbs in the center i supercrop to keep them low and have taller plants around the perimeter or shorter plants elevated.

when i try a vertical grow i will probly have 2 bulbs hanging 1 above the other and have 6 foot tall plants in a circle around the bulbs.


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## nuglets (May 4, 2012)

cool diagram smoke. thanks for sharing.


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## Saldaw (May 8, 2012)

what they mean by that is that its better to hang your light horizontal above the plants instead of vertical above the plants


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## Thatoneotherkid (Jun 6, 2012)

I have a question. I have just a normal 600 watt hps/ mh bulb and ballast. Could I hang my light directly from the power cord attached to the socket? Or would that just be a bad idea. If it is, is there any good online stores that have vertical hangers?


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## problemsolver (Jun 6, 2012)

Bad because no matter how you try it won't level properly.


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## citifield (Jun 6, 2012)

i grow trees in my vert set up 1 or more lights per plant, keeps plant count low, and you'll get the most grams per what out of your bulbs, of course some hydro company says its better with horizontal light cause a bare bulb hanging socket cost 20 as opposed to a $250 xxl raptor.


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## OGEvilgenius (Jun 6, 2012)

Stonefree69 said:


> Straight from the *Hydrofarm site *(for 8" Cooltube):
> 
> *Q:* Should my HID lights hang vertical or horizontal for maximum penetration?
> *A: * Studies have shown that a horizontal positioned bulb and reflector unit will
> ...


They are completely wrong. Not shocked they'd say this though, as their business is reflectors. Cooltubes are completely useless (and a net negative in terms of heat and light production) in almost any setup. Go horizontal and there are better reflectors (literally almost anything is better). Go vertical and you're better off without a cooltube.


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## OGEvilgenius (Jun 6, 2012)

Saldaw said:


> what they mean by that is that its better to hang your light horizontal above the plants instead of vertical above the plants


No one does that, but to them... duh. Although actually the best reflector for horizontal light production has the bulb hung vertically (at least according to Greners).


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## citifield (Jun 9, 2012)

if you grow trees in vert lighting you need fewer plants to get to you're yield goal, i haven't met mine yet but i know i will with care full tweaker and adjustments after everysingle grow i learn how to better oil the machine getting the whole plant light in a 360 canopy is the best way to achieve max yield per bulb, just like outside, of you can pull 5 p per plant out side you can do it in doors and just need to dial in your prograqm.


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## Sir.Ganga (Jun 9, 2012)

I have not see anyone mention that bulbs are made to hang vert or horz so check your bulb first before changing its orientation. They both work and there is very little difference to lumens output or intensity.

Use which ever works best for your lay out. Cooltubes are the shit though, my room dropped 12 degrees using them.

Good Luck


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## problemsolver (Jun 9, 2012)

The hortilux blue 400 watt metal halide comes in a vertical version.


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## Opm (Jun 11, 2012)

Riddle me this batman:

You hang a bulb verticle and it's light is emitted 360 degrees.
You add a reflector (usually horizontal) So the same light being emitted is now at least concentrated to 180 degrees. 

So how can a buble without a reflector have better penetration?

You can say that a non reflected verticle bulb gives better coverage area but not better penetration/lumens.


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## smoke and coke (Jun 11, 2012)




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## smoke and coke (Jun 11, 2012)

also look for heath robinson and his vertical grows. mind blowing


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## Clown Baby (Jun 11, 2012)

Vertical grows by heath robinson:
vertical Trees
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/101347-critical-mass-tree-grow-x.html

vertical SOG 
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/149998-heaths-flooded-tube-vertical.html

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/133309-heaths-mini-vertical.html


Heath lurks other threads moreso than RIU, but he's got a few gems posted here.


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## BearDown! (Jun 12, 2012)

thanks clown for the link i was just on here the other day trying to show someone that thread of the "nasa" grow Heath did.. rereading now and i missed some things last time. 
and great pics earlier smoke/coke, your proff is in that fat AZZ crop circle...lol


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## BearDown! (Jun 12, 2012)

smoke and coke said:


>


can i ask how many plants, how many watts, and how long your veg/flower times were..and yield, sorry if im asking too many questions, trying to plan ahead...


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## smoke and coke (Jun 13, 2012)

sorry i should have posted that these are not my plants so wattage is unknown. there is a floor fan in the center pointing up blowing air away from the bulbs. if memory is correct, may have been 5 plants.


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## OGEvilgenius (Jun 15, 2012)

Opm said:


> Riddle me this batman:
> 
> You hang a bulb verticle and it's light is emitted 360 degrees.
> You add a reflector (usually horizontal) So the same light being emitted is now at least concentrated to 180 degrees.
> ...


Vertically hung bulbs get better penetration because most plants tend to grow vertically more than horizontally. You will never penetrate to the bottom of a plant that's 6ft tall with horizontal bulbs. You can hang 2 vertical bulbs and penetrate all the way to the main stalk with vertically hung bulbs unless your plants are ridiculously huge.


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## bird mcbride (Jun 15, 2012)

You will get better penetration by hanging your light horizontally.


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## kanx (Jun 16, 2012)

I would say alot comes down to the type of plant/genetic/ space you have to work with.

Personally ive always saw better results with vertical, tho end of the day all we are really trying to do is recreate a great summers day, the plant dosnt care which way the light is hung , it just wants nice levels of light intensity everywhere for it to grow to its true potential unrestricted, so personally a mix of both would be best.

If restricted tho I would say go vert and circle the light with plants , much more light that way, get full use of all sides of light instead of just half it.


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## GUN1 (Jun 16, 2012)

Whats the best bulb for hanging vertically?


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## AlaskaHashMan (Jun 16, 2012)

i've never even heard of growing like that. is there any disadvantage


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## smoke and coke (Jun 17, 2012)

GUN1 said:


> Whats the best bulb for hanging vertically?


most bulbs can be hung vertical. the bulb should list that it is used for vertical, horizontal, or universal.

i just use regular hps you buy from home depot, idk whats the best one, but if you check out some grow bulbs that have a full spectrum would be your best bet.


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## smoke and coke (Jun 17, 2012)

AlaskaHashMan said:


> i've never even heard of growing like that. is there any disadvantage


i am sure there are pros and cons of both vertical and horizontal.

growing vertical without a cool tube can raise the temp in your whole room because the fan blowing straight up at the bulb will blow the heat throughout the room before it can be exhausted out. so your room temp will go up more than just having the bulb horizontal and no fan blowing at it.


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## bird mcbride (Jun 17, 2012)

Sradium grows have some serious disadvantages.


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## smoke and coke (Jun 17, 2012)

bird mcbride said:


> Sradium grows have some serious disadvantages.


how do you figure that. more area than a flat grow.


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## spitsbuds (Jun 17, 2012)

ive always been under the impression the hps light are designed to work just as well hung either way.its does not effect the bulbs performance in terms of lumens out put intensity and thought it was more to do with space heat ect ect and better penetration.


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## smoke and coke (Jun 17, 2012)

spitsbuds said:


> ive always been under the impression the hps light are designed to work just as well hung either way.its does not effect the bulbs performance in terms of lumens out put intensity and thought it was more to do with space heat ect ect and better penetration.


yes they will work either way of course but the position you hang the bulb along with a reflector or hood or no hood will determine penetration. your style of grow will also determine penetration. i do the vertical stadium grow because i dont have the ceiling height for a tall vertical grow.

lets just use an example and distances are not set for any bulb output.

horizontal bulb hung 2 feet above a flat canopy with optimal lighting to 3 feet. penetration into the plant is 1 foot. so only the top 1 foot of the plants are getting coverage.

vertical grow bulb hung down inside 5 foot plants at 2 feet away surrounding the bulb. the whole side of the 5 foot plants are getting coverage plus 1 foot penetration into the whole side of the plant. even though the tops may be above the bulb they will still get coverage.












going vertical is to try and get the most out of your sweet spot by not using a hood and getting a bigger sweet spot.


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## spitsbuds (Jun 17, 2012)

ty smoke and choke plus rep. good info wich ive learnt from


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## TheTimeKeeper (Jun 18, 2012)

S&C; But how about the new Growlite OG Hood? I'm looking into getting one of these for my micro 2x3' scrog setup but finding it hard to get peoples opinion of whether this hood will be beneficial at very close range to the plant canopy.. I've got a horiz air cooled hood now but aiming for a more uniform light to get the most out of the space.. even light spread for big buds all around and not a large sweet spot.. what your thoughts on these hoods?


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## nightmairz (Jun 18, 2012)

any ill or good effect from giving your plant a quarter turn every other day i figure the plants are some what intelligent ,they know when to flower but wondering if it would relly mess with them as they may think wtf is going on with the sun,i know a ficus tree i had would start to weep over if i moved it any where else in the room and had the same amount of light


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## Badmf (Jun 18, 2012)

I did a stadium with em on lite hangers no issues with being level they just hang but be careful they're hot, lol.


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## smoke and coke (Jun 18, 2012)

TheTimeKeeper said:


> S&C; But how about the new Growlite OG Hood? I'm looking into getting one of these for my micro 2x3' scrog setup but finding it hard to get peoples opinion of whether this hood will be beneficial at very close range to the plant canopy.. I've got a horiz air cooled hood now but aiming for a more uniform light to get the most out of the space.. even light spread for big buds all around and not a large sweet spot.. what your thoughts on these hoods?


thats a sweet looking hood but a sweeter looking grow underneath. i wouldnt mind trying one myself and try something new instead of a vertical stadium grow. only problem i see is having the light too close and bleach your plants. i know people always brag on how close they have their lights, but if i go that close i get bleached leaves.


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## TheTimeKeeper (Jun 19, 2012)

Hey S&C, that hood in the pics is actually cheap and nasty one I modded to make a bit smaller... google 'growlite og hood' to see what I'm on about, it's what I would like to move to if, in the opinion of experienced, it would be beneficial...


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## smoke and coke (Jun 19, 2012)

timekeeper ill check it out. i made a couple of different reflectors not air cooled and they worked ok. 

i made a couple of cooltubes out of the pyrex bake a round tubes. i used 1 horizontal and it did ok and could get it quite close. only a 400 watt, but after say 2 weeks i could see it starting to bleach the plants. i converted both cooltubes to hang vertical in a stadium grow. they did well, i kept the lights at a good distance. since then i removed the glass from the cool tube but still have the vent connected to the top of the lights hanging vertical.

i wish i could give an opinion on the hood but have never actually used one. like i say maybe i should start and try a scrog. i would want a 600 if only getting 1 light.

i feel that for me doing a stadium grow is best because i am only using a couple of 400's


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## smoke and coke (Jun 19, 2012)

TheTimeKeeper said:


> Hey S&C, that hood in the pics is actually cheap and nasty one I modded to make a bit smaller... google 'growlite og hood' to see what I'm on about, it's what I would like to move to if, in the opinion of experienced, it would be beneficial...


is the hood your thinking the og vertical hood?

the vertical looks nice but it is inside the hood as a vertical bulb. i am not sure about it reflecting better than horizontal in a hood. so its a vertical bulb for a flat grow.

usually growing vertical is the bulb without a hood and hanging in the middle of the plants.

edit: looking at that vertical light again. to me it would appear that most of the light has to be reflected before hitting the plants. that area at the end of the bulb does not throw out much light. so you go up the bulb a little and its good, then the rest of the bulb needs to be reflected.
i could be wrong but it would seem to me a horizontal in a hood would be better.


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## BlackBuddha (Jun 23, 2012)

Very interesting thread. I'll stay sub'ed.

I'm guess that *wearing shades is mandatory* for vertical grow don't you think? HPS lights can mess up your eyes *EASILY*!


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## TheTimeKeeper (Jun 23, 2012)

Hey S&C,

The guys over at growlite have done a number of tests with this hood (check out the vids over at youtube), and apparently it blows every other decent horizontal hood out of the water! Even this hood with a 600w globe was performing better than some of the other popular horizontal hoods they tested with 1000w globes. The main reason I'm considering the hood is the apparent very even light spread, on top of that, as there are no major 'hot spots' like in a horizontal setup, it would not be necessary to use the glass, again improving the light getting to the canopy. I've done alot of research into lights and vertical light is said to have much better penetration, and that there's nothing wrong with well reflected light. From what i've been able to dig up, vertical is the way to go given a very good reflector - which this appears to be... the growlite literature on this hood is very convincing! Sadly, it looks like this hood is just that little bit to big in terms of vertical space I have in my cabinet... I'm trying to find out if I can get a good light spread with it approx 12" above the canopy.. as that's all the space I've got, but min height may need to be more...


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## Badmf (Jun 23, 2012)

Heres the skinny. if you have a flat garden horiz. is best(movers even better), for verts . stadiums uc's vert is best. reflected light is not as strong as direct. Remember the Inverse Square Law,the distance is not propotionate to the strength of lumens esp the farther away you are wayy less light than within a foot! the distance the plant can safely be without burning effects the lumens received.Us e the back of hand rule, place your hand over the canopy and slowky riaise it until uncomfortable if it was for you it will be for the plants, savy? So get the set-up that gets the lite closer w/o burning em. Don't waste light by going hoizontal on a stadium waste waste waste. The idea was to get the light lost in the reflector to go straight to plants so more could be grown or larger less numbered faster growing ones.I have seen it from the beginning flurs on plywood sheets to Leds. Heat is the factor so don't cook your plants until after the harvest, lol. And don't use the wrong bulb for either position it was not designed for, best is universals. keep finger prints off bulbs and please be careful if spraying anything!


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## ctwalrus (Jun 23, 2012)

i gotta question... 
im very tempted to try and recreate heath's flowing tube vertical grow... 

has anyone been able to recreate his results in the past?
i cant find any examples of this


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## Bluecollarbudz90 (Apr 6, 2020)

OGEvilgenius said:


> They are completely wrong. Not shocked they'd say this though, as their business is reflectors. Cooltubes are completely useless (and a net negative in terms of heat and light production) in almost any setup. Go horizontal and there are better reflectors (literally almost anything is better). Go vertical and you're better off without a cooltube.


 I know this is old but do you mean better as in like the present day open hood setups.


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