# Building single-plant growbox, I want your opinions!



## Fractus (Jul 5, 2009)

Ok this is my current project, and I'm seeking advice from anyone and everyone who might be able to shed some light on my design. I was aiming for inexpensive, small, and effective - something that can be in an apartment building! This is what I have come up with:

_The container I decided to go with - A styrofoam cooler, air tight, spacious, easy to work with, inexpensive, and already white!_






_The red squares are where I intend to install my fans. Later on, when I need it I want to install a carbon filter on my exhaust fan._
_The black circles are where those light fixtures are going to be mounted horizontally, I think all of the lights together will give an even and adequate light distribution for my plant._
_The lights consist of 2 pairs of soft white CFL's, 1600 lumens/23 watts (=100 watt incandescent)_






_The cover to the box - that is a 3300 lumen soft white CFL @ 55 watts (= 150 watt incandescent). I plan to have this mounted in such a way that I can adjust the height of it to sit just over the plant at all time. (And when the plant is too high, I have an extra cooler, and will set one bottom piece inverted on top of the other and remount my dome light)_






All advice & criticism is welcome, I'm a newb


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## weed78138 (Jul 5, 2009)

_*the lights might be alittle to hot for styrofoam.*_


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## Fractus (Jul 5, 2009)

I actually took that into consideration, but those bulbs really don't produce much heat at all, I could have one turned on in my pants all day long and it probably wouldn't bother me  What are your thoughts as far as design goes?


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## Rauffle (Jul 5, 2009)

Really interested as to how well this works out.

You should do a test with the lights to make sure heat isn't an issue.


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## Fractus (Jul 5, 2009)

Funny you should say that, right now I have two of the lights turned on and just laying on the bottom of it, (closely monitored, mind you! I don't want my place to burn down) I've had them there for 30 minutes now and still not even getting warm. I wonder if anything higher than 23w would get much hotter..? CFLs are pretty damn efficient as far as heat/light ratio goes


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## Fractus (Jul 5, 2009)

Still no issues, and aside from my experimental observations, a little research taught me that the melting point for polystyrene (styrofoam) is approximately 240 degrees celcius, a temperature that no CFL would ever reach. So as far as safety and melting, it checks out!  Good question though, it's something I didn't really think about when buying my supplies. (Stoned...)


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## Rauffle (Jul 5, 2009)

Awesome. I'm going to go pick up some supplies tomorrow and try a similar setup for my first grow. Worst case scenario I ruin an $8 cooler.


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## Fractus (Jul 5, 2009)

Haha that was my perspective on it too, if you don't spend much money you can't risk wasting much money  Plus I'm pretty confident it's going to have great results, I'll be posting more pics as I progress.


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## thatdjsnow (Jul 6, 2009)

my 26w cfls run hotter than my 42w... 

also, just to be safe... there are lots of fire-retardant spray "paints" on the market you could use... i used to work in the oil field and covered all my clothes in them before going out. 

Also, if you monitoring the cfls, then the lid is probably off.... shut the lid for a good while, let the heated air not escape, and see how much hotter those cfls can get 

Not a problem with the fans you plan on installing.... bur what if they stop working?? Not raining on your parade, just prying to get you to test a bit more - I'd hate to see your next post be about you setting your apartment complex on fire while you were at work!


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## Da Superman (Jul 6, 2009)

I like the setup nice and clean and pretty much anyone can do it.


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## Fractus (Jul 6, 2009)

thatdjsnow said:


> my 26w cfls run hotter than my 42w...
> 
> also, just to be safe... there are lots of fire-retardant spray "paints" on the market you could use... i used to work in the oil field and covered all my clothes in them before going out.
> 
> ...


 
I appreciate your concern, and I posted this here to get all the criticism I can, if something is going to not work, I would like someone to point it out before it's too late lol. But like I previously stated, CFL bulbs won't ever go above 240 degrees celcius so heat/fire won't be an issue whether my fans decide to quit or not, the only possible firestarter would be something shorting out, which is equally risky to all indoor growers I think.


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## thatdjsnow (Jul 6, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I appreciate your concern, and I posted this here to get all the criticism I can, if something is going to not work, I would like someone to point it out before it's too late lol. But like I previously stated, CFL bulbs won't ever go above 240 degrees celcius so heat/fire won't be an issue whether my fans decide to quit or not, the only possible firestarter would be something shorting out, which is equally risky to all indoor growers I think.


Yeh but it would be hard for that to happen on a set-up your size - so looks like you're good to go! Good luck


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## Fractus (Jul 6, 2009)

Thanks dude! In the morning I'm going hunting for a couple more parts that I've decided I should invest in, and hopfully constuction+transplant will be done by tomorrow night, and I'll post some pics here for the public, maybe I'll inspire others


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## thatdjsnow (Jul 6, 2009)

cool man - im about to start my box, we can look at what each other does and learn of each other.


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## Fractus (Jul 6, 2009)

Edit: Posted same thing twice :/


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## Fractus (Jul 6, 2009)

Today I got all the rest of my supplies and built my box and transplanted into it, Let me know what you think! Total cost start to finish was under 120$.

_Beginning constuction: I drew an outline of the fans on the outside of the box._






_Step 2: Cut out holes where fans are going to be installed._






_Step 3: Cut holes where you plan on putting light fixtures in. I decided not to go with the round light on top, too complicated. Instead, two more 1600 lumen 23 watt CFL's are going in, on another y-splitter._






_Step 4: Screw fan in place. (This one is my intake)_






_Step 4 (2): Fan from the outside._






_Step 5: Screw other fan in place (exhaust)._






_Step 5 (2): Exhaust fan from the outside._






_Step 6: Those fans run on 12v DC so you can't just plug it into the wall, I spent $11 on this adapter 120AC -> 12DC 1000mA, Cut off the tip because you don't need it, I wired it directly to the +/- of my two fans in parallel (Optional: if you want con control your fan speed, spend a couple dollars and pick up a dimmer switch)_






_Step 6 (2): Pic of the whole setup so far._






_Step 6 (3): My sexy blue fans all wired up  (Note the wires held in place by thumbtacks lol)_






_Step 7: I know I skipped a couple steps, but all you after your wiring is stick your light sockets in the holes and plug them in, and transplant into the box._






_Step 8: My 6-bulb CFL stealth-box  With my little 2 week old plant, I'm expecting it to be a little stunted from the transplant, but with my good soil/perlite mix and lighting and ventilation, it will hopefully take off! In each y-splitter there are two 1600 lumen bulbs, one 2700K and one 6500K, I think taking a couple colours out of the spectrum might be beneficial _






_Step 9: Finished product, all plugged in, hiding in my closet - as you can see there is also a timer hooked up that controls my lights, right now it's set at 19/5 for my veg. I don't have a thermometer in it yet, but my exhaust is warm and inside the box is cool, so my fans are working great _


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## Rauffle (Jul 6, 2009)

Looking good man, keep us updated =]


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## SmokaJoka (Jul 6, 2009)

that looks excellent man! well done where did u get the box from?


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## Fractus (Jul 6, 2009)

Thanks man, pretty much every part used in this came from Canadian Tire, except the adapted and fans, they came from Future Shop. 18$ per fan and 11$ for the adapter, and I'm really impressed with the performance of the whole system in general! Can't wait to let it work for a few days and see how my plant responds


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## GypsyBush (Jul 6, 2009)

that is ... original... I must say that...

May I suggest the exhaust should be on top , I would think the lid would be the best place... as heat rises...

And I would use both fans as exhaust, leaving the bottom hols as a passive intake...

I believe that will give you the best ventilation possible, given your set up...


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## Fractus (Jul 6, 2009)

If you would have posted that idea before I built it I probably woulda done it with the exhaust on top, that's a pretty good idea, except that when my plant is sleeping it is more susceptible to random light from wherever. I do keep it in my closet though, which I think keeps out most light anyway, although I've never closed myself inside it so I can't say for sure 

But as far as the passive holes go and 2 exhausts, one of those fans by itself is rated at 34.5 cfm. My container can't be any more than 5 cubic feet, so it's air is being completely exchanged approximately 7 times per minute, plenty of ventilation I would assume. And not only that, I'm in an apartment building and smell will be an issue, so I'm keeping the flow constant and airtight in a way that no smell will escape aside from my exhaust. With passive holes, the place would most likely be reeking of dope. I'll be carbon filtering my exhaust when necessary. For now, I might as well not restrict the airflow.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 6, 2009)

Fractus said:


> If you would have posted that idea before I built it I probably woulda done it with the exhaust on top, that's a pretty good idea,


exhaust on top is a standard in grow ops...




> except that when my plant is sleeping it is more susceptible to random light from wherever. I do keep it in my closet though, which I think keeps out most light anyway, although I've never closed myself inside it so I can't say for sure


You should get in there... you do not want light leaks... you could make a "panda film" cover for your box... 

Did you notice the "glow" with the lights on?

Same thing happens from outside in...




> But as far as the passive holes go and 2 exhausts, one of those fans by itself is rated at 34.5 cfm. My container can't be any more than 5 cubic feet, so it's air is being completely exchanged approximately 7 times per minute, plenty of ventilation I would assume.


Sure, but heat rises... and you have a trap up top... it will build up there if it cannot escape...

not to mention that that is an axial fan.. which looses cfm very quickly with ANY restriction... just not enough umph...




> And not only that, I'm in an apartment building and smell will be an issue,


Get a carbon filter going when you flower... it will smell if you don't...



> so I'm keeping the flow constant and airtight in a way that no smell will escape aside from my exhaust.


Anther standard in grow ops is to have more exhaust than intake (hence the passive intake suggestion)....

This creates a negative pressure in the box... any air leaks will be in the form of fresh air coming in... none escaping...

All dirty air is directed to the exhaust... and the carbon filter...




> With passive holes, the place would most likely be reeking of dope.


On the contrary...

WITHOUT them, your set up is flawed...

If you have the same cfm intake as exhaust and you restrict the exhaust with a filter, you are causing a positive pressure... meaning that the box is over full and air will leak out any possible way... spreading smell and building heat...





> I'll be carbon filtering my exhaust when necessary. For now, I might as well not restrict the airflow.


agreed...


go with what you now bro..

but I went from a Aerogarden, to a 20x36x54 600 watt tent with zero heat issues... to a full 2400w 2 pound a month room...

I am speaking from experience... even if I didn't look up the actual flashpoint...

Best of luck bro...


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## Old Coot (Jul 6, 2009)

Fractus said:


> If you would have posted that idea before I built it I probably woulda done it with the exhaust on top, that's a pretty good idea, except that when my plant is sleeping it is more susceptible to random light from wherever. I do keep it in my closet though, which I think keeps out most light anyway, although I've never closed myself inside it so I can't say for sure
> 
> But as far as the passive holes go and 2 exhausts, one of those fans by itself is rated at 34.5 cfm. My container can't be any more than 5 cubic feet, so it's air is being completely exchanged approximately 7 times per minute, plenty of ventilation I would assume. And not only that, I'm in an apartment building and smell will be an issue, so I'm keeping the flow constant and airtight in a way that no smell will escape aside from my exhaust. With passive holes, the place would most likely be reeking of dope. I'll be carbon filtering my exhaust when necessary. For now, I might as well not restrict the airflow.


I just finished a new shelf unit flowering chamber last night. I will shoot some pics if you like. It has the exhaust unit on top. I just put a throw rug over it.....no light leaks and temps are cool in my basement so no worries. Before we moved this plastic shelf unit was our laundry shelf.


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## Fractus (Jul 6, 2009)

GypsyBush, where were you when I was designing this thing anyway! haha, everything you told me in your last post are things I know and should have taken into account, but I was too avid to get this thing going, mainly because my little plant was suffering without a proper environment. Right now it is doing exactly what it should be, but yes with the carbon filter I completely understand where you're coming from. So Maybe to solve this problem I will hook up a dimmer switch to my intake fan and slow it down, either that or upsize my exhaust.. It's a little too late to shift my exhaust to the roof, but the box is relatively small and the circulation in it is really good, it definitely is pulling air from the top of the box so I don't think heat will be a problem. My exhaust is warm and inside my box stays cool. I've had it running for over 7 hours now.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 6, 2009)

why is it too late?

and what is the temperature in there?

are you familiar with the GrowFAQ

and you should also read this... it's funny...

https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/10004-how-not-grow-dope.html


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## Fractus (Jul 6, 2009)

I think it's too late because the hole for the fan is over 3 inches in diameter, it's big... Like too big for the 2 fans to keep constant flow the whole time, I know that smell would escape. I could put some sort of cover to taper it down some I guess. 

Do you think it would work to just switch my intake around so that it pulls, and then put a couple smaller holes in the cover as passive holes? I think that way it would keep a steady negative pull, although that would mean i either need to route both exhausts into one filter leter on, or attach filters to both exhausts, both options sound like a hassle. I probably should have taken more time planning this out lol. But at least it's safe, right? 

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot to mention, no thermo in there yet so I don't know how warm it is, but it's no warmer than the air in my room, when I put my hand in there the ventialtion actually makes my hand feel cooler than the ambient temp in my room - chill factor, i suppose.

And about the blue LEDs, they are so small and insignificant I doubt my plant will even register their flickering blue glow as 'usable light', what do you think?


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## GypsyBush (Jul 6, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I think it's too late because the hole for the fan is over 3 inches in diameter, it's big... Like too big for the 2 fans to keep constant flow the whole time, I know that smell would escape. I could put some sort of cover to taper it down some I guess.


go with what you know bro...


> Do you think it would work to just switch my intake around so that it pulls, and then put a couple smaller holes in the cover as passive holes? I think that way it would keep a steady negative pull, although that would mean i either need to route both exhausts into one filter leter on, or attach filters to both exhausts, both options sound like a hassle. I probably should have taken more time planning this out lol. But at least it's safe, right?


There is a reason why all successful ops have exhaust on top and intake on the bottom...

it works...

I can't imagine why it's too late... 

I would just drill 2 holes on the lid and put the fans on there...

I already explained this... I am not gonna repeat my self...



> Edit: Oh yeah, forgot to mention, no thermo in there yet so I don't know how warm it is, but it's no warmer than the air in my room, when I put my hand in there the ventialtion actually makes my hand feel cooler than the ambient temp in my room - chill factor, i suppose.


Your hand is not a thermometer.. without a thermometer, you are just guessing...

And it's not cooler in there.. I guarantee it... you have heat sources in a closed box... heat will build...



> And about the blue LEDs, they are so small and insignificant I doubt my plant will even register their flickering blue glow as 'usable light', what do you think?


can you see it? so can your plants...

You need to read dude...

ALL of these issues are covered in the basic GrowFAQ

read and you will learn...

start here .. https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/12071-noobs-if-you-fail-plan.html



Gypsy out...


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## Fractus (Jul 7, 2009)

> There is a reason why all successful ops have exhaust on top and intake on the bottom...


Done 



> Your hand is not a thermometer.. without a thermometer, you are just guessing...


Yes it is  Yours would be too if you had it trained.



> can you see it? so can your plants...


I researched it, those particular LEDs are producing only a fraction of a single lumen EACH, dimly reflected inside the box when all other lights are out. There are a total of 8 LEDs in the fans, so the most possible light they could be getting is under 8 lumens. Are you saying my plants don't realize it's bedtime when it switched from 10 000+ lumens to 8?



> read and you will learn...


Agreed.

_Draw & Cut some new fan holes_






_Screw in fans, put lights back in._






_Passive intake vents - I tacked a dryer sheet to the outside of this one,even though it's held very tightly in place by suction alone. Makes it smell good and guaranteed to create negative pressure with a slight restriction. The opposite side is just open though._






_Finished, with overhead exhaust_











I'm actually considering duct-taping the whole outside of the box (aside from vents obvsiously) so external light doesn't get in and internal light doesn't get out, although my closet is doing a pretty good job on its own.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 7, 2009)

OK... Looks better on the ventilation... though when and if you flower, you do not want that smell on your buds... trust me.. it SUCKS to have dryer smell on buds... 

and your hand is not train-able for temperatures... get a thermometer...

Are you familiar with a chemical process called PHOTOSYNTHESIS...???

It happens when LIGHT (any light) reaches the green surface of a leaf...

Bro... your plants don't sleep... they shift modes.... and if you confuse them (by having light hit part of the plant while other parts are in the dark) you will end up stressing the hell out of it, possibly even creating a hermie...

I'm sorry if I seem short bro...

I have a bum leg and it hurts like hell sometimes.... like now... so I get a little cranky and short, but I'm still trying to help with no desire to offend or prove anything.... just sharing the info....

so sorry if I seem rude... it's not me... it's the pain..


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## Fractus (Jul 7, 2009)

Does the moonlight screw up outdoor plants then? I'm just extrapolating on your theory, I know what photosynthesis and how it works, but those LEDs are enough light for it to do anything at all. How does my plant know a firefly isn't sitting on it in the woods? :/

I will probably invest in a thermometer just for curiosity's sake, but I know the temperature in that box isn't too warm, the ventilation actually cools my lights! - after all a case fan is designed to cool warm components, and right now my box is exchanging all of it's air nearly 15 times/minute with fresh cool air from my closet, and now exiting out the top  So far it's working awesome and I've already noticed a great improvement in both colour and size since my transplant yesterday. Anyway once I get the temperature it will probably be posted in this thread and I'll let you know, along with anyone else who may be wondering if my box is getting too hot.


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## vandewalle (Jul 7, 2009)

okay let me start by saying cool idea but thats just silly looking  anyway, i think that what gypsybush is saying is all pretty much good info, my only concern is how worth it this will be, i mean this plant cant get more than what 8inches tall? and on top of that you dont have a terrible amount of light, i mean you really arent going to be able to get more than a few grams off of her, im just wondering how worth it this whole process is going to be. thats all.


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## njburden (Jul 7, 2009)

Sweet idea


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## Got#'sbutstillsmokeroache (Jul 7, 2009)

Fractus....I have thought of the same thing about the moonlight and whatnot when a plant is in nature, but speaking from experience letting much light in during dark period will turn your plant into hermie very easily. Happened to a beautiful plant of mine when my light cycle got fucked up one night.

Keep in mind also that the bulbs you will be using for flowering do put out more heat than the 6500k bulbs. 

ALSO...it isn't about the box melting...it is about how much heat that insulated cooler will be holding in.


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## Fractus (Jul 7, 2009)

I hear ya, my argument to that is that I'm going to use another fullsize cooler just like that one, and flip it upside down and set it on top of that one, so it's twice as high, grow my plant to about 2 feet and then flower. The box is BLINDING to look at, it's just ridiculously bright, I can;t imagine that not being enough light. I've seen wicked growth from guys having only 4 CFLs but using them close, I have 6 cfls very close to my plant in a highly reflective white box completely enclosed aside from the vents. 
I'm hoping to get more than a few grams but really this is just for learning purposes, it's my first grow ever. And it didn't much, and I'll always be able to have a single plant in there year round, I think it was a good investment as long as it works


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## Got#'sbutstillsmokeroache (Jul 7, 2009)

hopefully it will work out for you, but you may have to build some other box for flowering, the 2700ks get a little hotter.


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## Fractus (Jul 7, 2009)

Got#'sbutstillsmokeroache said:


> Fractus....I have thought of the same thing about the moonlight and whatnot when a plant is in nature, but speaking from experience letting much light in during dark period will turn your plant into hermie very easily. Happened to a beautiful plant of mine when my light cycle got fucked up one night.
> 
> Keep in mind also that the bulbs you will be using for flowering do put out more heat than the 6500k bulbs.
> 
> ALSO...it isn't about the box melting...it is about how much heat that insulated cooler will be holding in.


I suppose I'm better safe than sorry, that makes two (experienced) votes saying kill the blue lights, so i'll just cover them with a piece of electrical tape lol, problem solved  Thanks for your concern!

And the heat... right now I have 3 x 6500K and 3 x 2700K bulbs in there- all 1600lumen - again, I don't know the exact temperature but I can tell by feel it's nothing significant, I'll have a solid # for you soon, maybe tomorrow.


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## Got#'sbutstillsmokeroache (Jul 7, 2009)

I am definitely going to follow this. I am a closet cfl grower myself, but have always used rubbermaid container. If this works out for you I may invest in a few styrofoam coolers. Guess you are the guinea pig eh?


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## Fractus (Jul 7, 2009)

Haha yeah, and I'm making lots of mistakes but hey it's my first try, I expected this, but the idea in itself I still think was good despite some of the criticism I've received. I plan on continuing to post pics of my plant's progress on here, I'm glad you're interested


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## GypsyBush (Jul 7, 2009)

you can have short plants...

I have had full sativas finish at 6" tall and 13" wide...

It's all in what you want to do...

and heat builds... if the ventilation system is not up to par, it will get hotter and hotter and hotter... 

On the other hand, if you ventilate properly, you could have a light bigger than your box... and it would still be cool...

and yes... plants do turn hermie in nature... the moon light can be strong enough...

but you gotta remember... if the WHOLE plant is in the light, even if weak, it's in the light...

the big stress comes when part of the plant is in "dark" mode and a beam of light starts photosynthesis in another part...

"is it day? is it night? is it the end of the world? better go hermie and make seeds quick, cause I might die..."

know what I mean..

you will do good cause you are willing to listen...


I just wish you would read the GrowFAQ

ALL OF THIS CRAP IS IN THERE...

you should know all this before you start you grow...

You don't start the car down the highway and then learn how to drive right?

I get it... you wanna grow pot... it's cool...

and you git a cool little toy there...

but as far as growing POT to keep yourself supplied, you need to read LOTS AND LOTS...

but you will do good, cause you listen...

I'm cheering for you... I'd like to see you get at least 1/4 oz from that plant in that box...

again... *make use of the info*... forget *how* I said it... I'm grouchy asshole and I'm in pain... 

hope you guys can deal with that...


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## GypsyBush (Jul 7, 2009)

I'm rooting for you bro...

don't let my bitterness tell you otherwise...


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## Fractus (Jul 7, 2009)

Yeah you can be an asshole but I was willing to tolerate it because you know more than I do haha, and everyone has their days, I'm not offended. I took a lot more shit than this when I was a noob at Starcraft and again ad Diablo 2 haha. Eventually I was the one giving advice. But yeah, I've read so much I just got tired of it all, I will read that one you posted though, just not tonight because I have to leave in an hour, I have a previous engagement. I also prefer learning from a direct and personalized answer to one of my questions, as opposed to generalized answers for everyone. I appreciate the time you're putting into pointing me in the right direction. Hope you're here all the way!


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## GypsyBush (Jul 7, 2009)

knowing the basics will allow you to get the job done right the first time..

I'm a hands on guy.. but I took the time to read and I got 1 gram per watt on my very first grow.. and so can you..

and so can anyone...

but if you start doing everything wrong cause you didn't read.. it's gonna take you 3 or 4 times as long...

read bro.. no one will spoon feed you the whole way...

I'll be here... and I will do what I can...


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## Fractus (Jul 7, 2009)

I won't be getting that kind of results I doubt, I've got over 100 watts in that box. But that's the same power consumption as if I left a single incandescent bulb on in my kitchen so I'm not complaining about my power usage at all. I'll keep reading and learning though. I've absorbed about as much knowledge as I possibly could in the past 2 days. I didn't really know a thing about the plant until joining this site so I've already come a longgg way. Anyway I'm out for the night I think. Thanks again Gypsy.


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## Old Coot (Jul 7, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I won't be getting that kind of results I doubt, I've got over 100 watts in that box. But that's the same power consumption as if I left a single incandescent bulb on in my kitchen so I'm not complaining about my power usage at all. I'll keep reading and learning though. I've absorbed about as much knowledge as I possibly could in the past 2 days. I didn't really know a thing about the plant until joining this site so I've already come a longgg way. Anyway I'm out for the night I think. Thanks again Gypsy.


Its a good idea, but not enough space before heat issues and space period!.... will prevail and stealth does not exist if it glows in the dark!


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 8, 2009)

def a good set up man and i think i was the only person who realized your solution to the hight problem. by the time he gets deep into veg this box will be double the size. rather than taping it up (dont do this while your plant is in it) you could spray paint the whole outside black to reduce the glow. did you leave the passive intake holes? it looked like you just taped over them. a good way to have intake holes and not wory about light leaking in is to use a foot of ducting shoved in those holes. what else did i want to bring up?...

oh the leds, ya it dosnt really matter if you have them at this stage because a plant can get 24 hrs of light without stress at this point. when you get to a strict 12/12 flowering period you will need to figure out how to get those led lights off your fans (do the bulbs unskrew?) or get new ones, ones without the lights should be cheaper. oh and the pot, you dont have one, its just filled with soil. i like using pots so i can move my plant around and make changes to my set up. 

good luck bro


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## Fractus (Jul 8, 2009)

Thanks for the advice bro! Yeah tha passive intake holes are there, I think i described it somewhere, one is completely open and the other has a dryer sheet tacked over it. I probably won't leave it there although it's doing a great job at holding negative pressure. Note that both holes are 3inches in diameter, that's a fair amount of intake for a smaller box like this one. Exchanging approx. 70cfm at the moment.

Paint it black! great idea, yes naturally i would secure my plant first though. I may just nicely seal up the inside and then spray the outside, my plan will have to go 20 minutes without fresh air but I think it can handle it. 

The LED's are wired directly to a small circuitboard. I'm going to investigate the right wa to go about bypassing them, (it's probably as simply as breaking the lights off and connecting the anode/cathode to each other to complete the circuit). I tried covering them up with tape, not so effective because the whole fan is transparent so light reflects back into them and into my box. But yeah at the young stage I really wasn't worried.

I couldn't get my hands on a pot that would nicely fit in this thing and be able to have enough soil so I just filled my box, but the nice thing about this (since Ishifter my exhaust to the top) is that after I simply remove 2 light sockets, the box itself is a completely mobile plant-pot with 2 large and 2 small holes cut into it (2 passive vents, 2 small holes for sockets to go in). I think when/if I need to flush it, it won't be hard. I'll jab some holes in the bottom of my box and set it right in the bathtub lol.


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## past times (Jul 8, 2009)

i like what you have going. definitely not something i have seen before. i think it is going to be hard to control the distance the light is fro the plant with that setup....which is pretty crucial.


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## Fractus (Jul 8, 2009)

Instead of controlling the position of the lights to the plants I've been reading about how to position the plant according to the lights - tying it down and growing the shape and size I want once it gets older.

Here's a couple pics of my plant, taken today.






Canopy


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## Stoner42070 (Jul 8, 2009)

Woyld a bulb that doesnt produce alot of heat still work good


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## Fractus (Jul 8, 2009)

Absolutely. They need the light, not the heat. Which is why you've (hopefully) never seen anyone in your life that grew in incandescent bulbs. You want your plants to have a nice air temperature, like 75-85 degrees F.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 8, 2009)

Stoner42070 said:


> Woyld a bulb that doesnt produce alot of heat still work good


Such as......

we do not have intense light without heat yet... that's in the future still.. unfortunately...


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## Fractus (Jul 8, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Such as......
> 
> we do not have intense light without heat yet... that's in the future still.. unfortunately...


I think what he meant is bulbs that efficient in light and not producing much heat (like my fluorescents). I don't think he's asking about bulbs that run cold haha. But damn, won't that be the day?! And they will have fans built right into them so they are blowing-cool-bulbs. Sick. Just have an array of those for your plants to vine in and around and get super lighting from all angles without burning. Imagine..


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## past times (Jul 8, 2009)

i mean the intention with your box is good, your going to end up with issues down the road. get a proper box then you can modify it however you want from there.

check out this box. it is roughly 1x1x3 (depth on the inside is only 10inches). like you it has the outtake at top with passive intake in the bottom. however, with the adjustable shelf you can move those plants right up to within a centimeter of the bulbs if you want. the setup now has 6 bulb spaces available, but the thing has maintained a 150watt hps (With a few extra heat precautions). i love it for vegging things or overflow clones now, but in the day this thing was the 1 and only. also, putting dirt in a pot...is amlost a given, is pretty helpful in watering, trimming, transplanting, cleanliness, training of the plant in order to maximize yield on the small area and wattage. 

check out the grow faqs and keep reading on here and youll keep learning more and more. not a grow goes by that i am not learning something.


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## Fractus (Jul 8, 2009)

Thanks dude, that's helpful info. I like your box design, shelves for the plant is way smarter than spending money trying to figure out ways to change the height of your lighting. 

The nice thing about my box though is once i take off the cover and unscrew those two bulb fixtures in the base, it IS a pot. Completely mobile, easy to work with. I really don't think a pot was necessary for this setup. It's just a big pot with buit in lights and a cover, essentially. It's very clean too, I don't want to transplant it again, the biggest I want this thing to get is going to be inside that box, I don't have the ability to make anything any bigger where I'm living, trust me. This is just my new hobby  Entertainment, you might say.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 8, 2009)

Fractus said:


> This is just my new hobby  Entertainment, you might say.


and a very good hobby indeed...


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## past times (Jul 8, 2009)

i guess as the plant grows you can train by tieing limbs to the walls...maybe those fishhook screws. that would be pretty sweet if you had that hole thing filled in around the side bulbs.


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## Fractus (Jul 8, 2009)

That actually is my intention, the bulbs aren't producing enough heat to hurt the plants even if they get really close, I would like to have it grown in and around all my bulbs. It will be easy to twist some fishhook screws into styrofoam sidewalls too, so far I'm actually liking what I have, I don't regret building this thing despite all the minor snags I've encountered so far.

Also, I have 8 blue LEDs for sale that I just ripped out of my fans, I found out they are all wired in parellel with the fan so disconnecting them had no effect on the fan itself, I just broke them all off lol. Just kidding about the "for sale" part.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 9, 2009)

Fractus said:


> so far I'm actually liking what I have, I don't regret building this thing despite all the minor snags I've encountered so far.


I think you are doing good...
It's a nice experiment...

It will teach you a lot ..

And it's way better for you than crack.."lol:


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## thatdjsnow (Jul 9, 2009)

lol that is the epitome of an antistealth box hahahaha


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## Fractus (Jul 10, 2009)

Updated plant pics from prototype styro-growbox, courtesy of the Motorola V3c 










More little leaves are just sprouting at every node now, I can almost WATCH it grow!

Edit: Another detail I forgot to mention, My plant is already smelling delicious! But I fear soon I will be able to smell it through my vents so tomorrow is D.I.Y. carbon filter day! I'll have pics of how I do it, another creative idea - staying with the theme though.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 10, 2009)

You mean it will glow in the dark too..?!?!?!?!













...


 BWAhahahahaha.....

Sorry bro.. that was just a bad joke.. I couldn't help it... you know I mean no disrespect...

And hey... I just noticed... It's the guy in my signature..

Hey Buddy!


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## thatdjsnow (Jul 10, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> You mean it will glow in the dark too..?!?!?!?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Howdy there partner.  Such an honor! hehe 




Fractus, hope that carbin filter goes well - you could just buy a 3 pack of 15gal fish tank filters and tape that bitch over the hole... i think they are about 4x3.... its just a fiber bag with carbon granules inside! (i use them in my fishtank)


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## Fractus (Jul 10, 2009)

Haha I could do that, yeah. I'm considering it, I'm gonna go check out comparitive prices for my home-made version and the fishtank filter. I even asked myself if a brita filter would work lol! I think it might, it's activated carbon right?


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## juggrownot (Jul 10, 2009)

so wheres the plant gonna go? just looks like theres no room to grow anything in thre


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## GypsyBush (Jul 10, 2009)

It would be cool if you ended up with something like this .. eh?!?!?!

This is one of my lollipops... prolly be 1 oz dried and cured... 

*Bagseed Indica - Zero Veg Clone - Wet Weight * *97Grams*



Pre-Trim...

















Trimmed all of the Fan Leaves...

that's a standard size bic lighter by the way.... not a small one...


















Full manicured Bud weighing in at 97.2 grams *WET WEIGHT*


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## Fractus (Jul 10, 2009)

She's gorgeous! I would love to see those results come from my box. we'll just have to wait and see  I keep a close eye on her so if something isn't going the way I want to to I find out right away and fix it. It grew a ton just overnight! I've been watering one 20-oz pop bottle full of water every two days and it seems like all of it is getting used up.


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## Fractus (Jul 10, 2009)

Since my baby is getting fragrant already, today I went shopping. I had a carbon filter idea in mind, but when I got to the store I deiscovered something wayy easier and less expensive for me. Introducing the Febreze TrueAir filter. Perfect for taping over my little fan holes  Couldn't have worked out any better for me, AND my new thermometer. Once I let it sit for a while I'll post current air temp and humidity.


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 10, 2009)

what r the fabreeze filters like? i had an idea to cut the bottom off a soda can stuff the inside with a thick layer of drier sheets, then some ground up charcoal and more drier sheets, then tape this to an small fan and whalah! your exhaust no longer smells like the reefer


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 10, 2009)

gypsy, what was the dry weight of that? i remember getting a one ounce bud that looked like that, a little smaller


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## Fractus (Jul 10, 2009)

Search Frebreze TrueAir in this forum and see what people said, aparently they work fine so I got a couple.


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## Fractus (Jul 11, 2009)

I attempted installing these TrueAir filters over my two individual exhaust fans on the cover of my box. It decreased airflow dramatically, I let it stay that way for a few hours, came back and my temp inside the box spiked to 95 F, a hot day for my poor little plant. So today I redesigned my entire ventilation setup and incorporated a carbon filter that I made out of duct tape, a 2 litre pop bottle, and two Febreze TrueAir filters (and some scissors). 

_Inside the box. Those little 80mm fans make my suck air through that passive hole like there's wind in there, keeps temps normal now too, and when the lights go out tonight I'm sure it will get significantly cooler. My apartment cools off a lot at night too and my plant's 5 hour night shift happens at night _






_Still two passive holes in the bottom near the plant, one original fan hole is duct-taped closed because I don't need it anymore. My second fan is now located directly on top of the first - a supercharged mini fan. the whole exhaust pulls hard now and forces into the airtight chamber of that carbon filter you see there. So far it works great, no scent coming through at all._
_




_

_Redesigned box, carbon filter installed._






Now take a look how my plant has been responding to my box. First, remember this plant exactly 7 days ago before transplanting?






New Pics (three diferent angles):
















Now I have a question, could anybody take an educated guess at what strain this plant is? I think it looks similar to a Lowryder, I got the seed from a friend who claimed it was medicinal, so I don't actually know what it is yet.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 11, 2009)

KaleoXxX said:


> gypsy, what was the dry weight of that? i remember getting a one ounce bud that looked like that, a little smaller


Still drying bro... I posted those pics fresh..

but arount 1 oz is a good guess...


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## GypsyBush (Jul 11, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I attempted installing these TrueAir filters over my two individual exhaust fans on the cover of my box. It decreased airflow dramatically,


Axial fans have no guts... any restriction and they loose flow by a LOT...




> I let it stay that way for a few hours, came back and my temp inside the box spiked to 95 F, a hot day for my poor little plant.


That is unacceptable bro!

even 85 is going to cause you problems...

95F is just not cool....



> So today I redesigned my entire ventilation setup and incorporated a carbon filter that I made out of duct tape, a 2 litre pop bottle, and two Febreze TrueAir filters (and some scissors).



I undrestand your want for odor control... plus it's 
"cool" to have it..

But the truth of the matter is...

she doesn't stink right now... she doesn't even have a smell compared to what will be...

So if you are concerned of reefer smell in veg...

Be careful, because she will actually start smelling once you flower her...

it WILL smell like a skunk took a piss in your bedroom...And fabreeze ain't gonna cut it...

but I know you are just havong fun and all... so...

But if odor is a concern now... boy, it's gonna get SO MUCH MORE INTENSE...



> _Inside the box. Those little 80mm fans make my suck air through that passive hole like there's wind in there, keeps temps normal now too, and when the lights go out tonight I'm sure it will get significantly cooler. My apartment cools off a lot at night too and my plant's 5 hour night shift happens at night _


What is the "normal" temperature?

and why not turn the lights off during the hottest part of the day instead of the coolest...

I have a feeling you are running in the high 80's in there.. 

what's the thermometer say?





> _Still two passive holes in the bottom near the plant, one original fan hole is duct-taped closed because I don't need it anymore. My second fan is now located directly on top of the first - a supercharged mini fan. the whole exhaust pulls hard now and forces into the airtight chamber of that carbon filter you see there. So far it works great, no scent coming through at all._



Hahaha... there is no scent coming off because she is not smelling yet ,,,



> _Redesigned box, carbon filter installed._



I am still so afraid of that thing it's not even funny...

But I wish all the best..




> Now take a look how my plant has been responding to my box. First, remember this plant exactly 7 days ago before transplanting?
> 
> 
> New Pics (three diferent angles):


She is not stretching.. I'll give you that...

But I can tell she's been stressed and her growth was stunted at one point... her growth is all jumbled up..

My first guess would be heat...






> Now I have a question, could anybody take an educated guess at what strain this plant is?


no way to tell strain...

and an "educated guess" is based on at least some info... we got zip...



> I think it looks similar to a Lowryder,


How you figure??? 

I think you have more hot air than your cooloer...hahahaha..... Joking bro...

But there is no way to tell... it's bagseed...




> I got the seed from a friend who claimed it was medicinal, so I don't actually know what it is yet.


yet should not have been in your sentence...

you mau have the best weed in the world... but unless YOU KNOW where it came from, it's just bagseed...

I got 4 strains of bagseed that kick ass... there is nothing wrong with them...

and am sure they are of good lineage...

but forever they wil just be bagseed...


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## Fractus (Jul 12, 2009)

I doubled up the fans and now it does have guts. It shredded a whole kleenex in half a second lol. Just pulp came out the other side.

I know 95 is unacceptable which is why I changed it right away I thoguht I made that part obvious :S 
"Normal" is 75 - 85 like veryone on the entire forum says.

I don't want my lights off during the hottest part of the day because your plant is supposed to get cooler at night, if I had lights off in the day and lights on all night then the plant would have a relatively contant temperature all the time. You're the one that told me to go reading maybe you should look it up 

My plant smells dude. It's not putting off strong odour yet but if I can smell it when I get close then I know any day now I'll be able to smell it in the exhaust. 

You're just paranoid I think. I built it properly, my wiring is good and my lights PHYSICALLY CAN'T IGNITE STYROFOAM because they simply don't get hot enough. My box is safe, the only thing that frightens me about it is the mysterious glow it has like it's from another planet lol.

Her main stress was living in indirect sunlight on a windowsil for over a week after being over-germinated. This took place before I became a member of this forum and began building my box. That is why there are smaller, more pale green leaves near the bottom. The top ones are thick and strong and my stem is getting tough, there are little leaves poking out from every angle at every node, the thing just wants to explode! Every 12 hours I look at it and there is at least one to two sets of new leaves sprouting somewhere, and not really growing any higher at all. 


Gypsy, you sure do know how to flog a dead horse. The reason I guessed that strain is because if you do some research and look at pictures of 2 week old Lowryders many of them look identical or very similar to mine. And I think once I harvest and sample, I may be able to recognize what it is and where it came from because it wasn't bagseed. It was in a bag of purchased seeds, some of which ended up in my hands. Not that I really care what kind it is, I was just curious. If you don't know what strand it is all you needed to say was "No I don't know what strand it is."


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## GypsyBush (Jul 12, 2009)

unsubscribed...

You don't want my help... 

I'm not gonna waste my time...

Best of luck...


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## Old Coot (Jul 12, 2009)

i would pull those seedlings out of the box...put em in the window sill or close to it....and listen to Gypsy Bush.....Shit!!! isnt that a famous rock band or something??? LOL Gypsy Bush I sure hope you are a woman.....havent had a decent female friend only in years!


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## Fractus (Jul 12, 2009)

It's growing way too nicely for me to want to change anything else. And Gypsy if you were actually trying to help I wouldn't mind but that last message was just taking a shot at me, you didn't tell me a single useful thing, you just quote me and then make some unnecessary comment.



> i would pull those seedlings out of the box...put em in the window sill or close to it....


Old Coot, why would you take them out of the box? That heat problem was only a problem for 4 hours after installing the carbon filter when it slowed down my fans too much, until I caught it and fixed it. Now my highest is around 30 degrees Celcius, so like 86 F. And my lowest is at night while it's in the dark (now), at around 23 celcius (73ish F).


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## Old Coot (Jul 12, 2009)

Its a foam cooler and it does not have enough room to perform all of the necessary functions safely or adequately in my opinion. Im not picking on ya bro...just stating the obvious. Your job is to prove me wrong and grow some good smoke...without burning the house down or killing the plant when it hits its growth spurt.


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## Old Coot (Jul 12, 2009)

Also , for what its worth, a typical exhaust system needs three times the volume as the intake hole size to cool adequately. The smaller the space the larger the vacuum created which can mean that if outside temps are hot....inside temps will be hotter instead despite the fan.....kind of like a jet engine......it may be a fire hazzard! Dont ask me to qualify myself here...I didnt invent the math.

Natural light for thirty days or a combo of the two thru a short veg cycle with summer sun will get you to flower sized plants in the dead of summer in the northern hemisphere April thru October. Yes around the window sill. It wont smell until Flower enough to be more potent than the shit in your pipe anyway! If Moms coming over, put her in the closet. If Mom has a key.....dont grow pot. Until it shows sex...its just a plant seedling in my opinion.
Therefore grow 12/12 from seed and revert back to veg lighting or put em in the window sill until they are 4th node healthy, sex em for two or three weeks 12/12 and then cull the males. ...This takes longer in my opinion.


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## Fractus (Jul 12, 2009)

Are you positive about that? I would think my intake would need to be big enough to allow sufficient airflow, if my exhaust was three times my intake than I'm creating an even stronger vacuum and very low pressure inside the box. If I have a larger intake and a small powerful fan pulling no less than 50 cfm out of my box that is only a 38 litre cooler, that means that the same air doesn't stay in my box for more than 4 seconds. It stays roughly one to two degrees celcius higher than the ambient room temperature all the time, simply because there is a heat source in a box, but it is adequately cooled despite what you may think from seeing my pictures. You really need to see the box's performance in person to understand why I believe in it. It is getting very close to the same temperatures and light (if not more) than what it would be getting if it were an outdoor plant. 
Anyway I'm not here to argue I'm here to learn, and this is my experiment lol. I will keep this thread updated though so you can see how my plant progresses and decide for yourself whether you thought it was effective and worthwhile.


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## Old Coot (Jul 12, 2009)

Hey man......Im going to watch and learn. I suspect this cooler is in your closet and we have not heard house or room temps just whats happening inside. Further, you could be in the high desert plain and me in the Mississippi valley.... Either way even a short Afghan will be cramped in that box with lights and fans and vents.....might as well be in near direct sunlight.
Not here to cramp your style either...its your grow. No disrespect intended in any of this either.


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## thatdjsnow (Jul 12, 2009)

Old Coot said:


> Hey man......Im going to watch and learn. I suspect this cooler is in your closet and we have not heard house or room temps just whats happening inside. Further, you could be in the high desert plain and me in the Mississippi valley.... Either way even a short Afghan will be cramped in that box with lights and fans and vents.....might as well be in near direct sunlight.
> Not here to cramp your style either...its your grow. No disrespect intended in any of this either.


When the plant gets too tall - he's going to attach another cooler on top of the current one to double his box's height... or at least i'm pretty sure that's what he said.

If not, there's an idea! haha


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## Fractus (Jul 12, 2009)

Yeah that's my plan. I posted it several times earlier that this box is going to get twice as big as soon as I feel my plant is big enough to need the space to expand more, but for now it's closest point to any wall or light is no less than 3 inches. Yeah the box is in my closet usually, but often in the day I don't want it to actually heat up my closet so I leave the sliding closet door open just enough to allow fresh air to get in and the old air to get out. 

Yeah sorry I did fail to mention where I am and what sort of ambient temps I get in the apartment. This time of year in eastern canada I'm getting low 80's at the warmest point in the day and high 60's/low 70's at night. Every day is a little different of course. And my plant is getting nearly the same temperature. Humidity has been at 55% ever since I bought my thermo/humidity meter and put it in there. 

I'm sure within the next week I will be remodelling and setting up the double-stacked box and with any luck that will be the last modification I need to make to it for a while.


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 12, 2009)

fractus you are rediculous. gypsy bush gave you the most info that you have probably ever recieved about growing. you have taken in multiple pieces of advice from him and yet you still try and contradict or disprove him. on the strain, you are a idoit for thinking you can pick its genetics from 2 weeks in. if you seen any other cfl grows in which the lights are put extremely close you will see a resemblence. it has NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING A LOWRYDER!! also what do you mean over germinated it??? ive had seeds in water bottles germinating for weeks and creating tap roots 6" long, so im nt sure wat over germinating means in your case..haha ok one last thing, the smell of your sprout is NOTHING!!! it probably smells less then a unblossomed rose..if you want a real plant listen to the GYPSY!


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## purpdaddy (Jul 12, 2009)

Fractus said:


> And about the blue LEDs, they are so small and insignificant I doubt my plant will even register their flickering blue glow as 'usable light', what do you think?


 Hell fucc yea man i know a gut that was running Co in his op and just the lil LED light on the tank turned a portion of the plant hermie. and by the looks of it yours got a realgood view of those leds on the fans,..just had to touch on that..Listen to the gypsy..he knows what he says..


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## Katatawnic (Jul 12, 2009)

Just my $.02 here, but why would anyone put "I wont your opinions!" in a thread title, then turn around and argue the opinions (and great advice!) given? I'm not saying that all opinions are correct, but common sense would indicate what is and isn't "sound" advice. I'd pay attention, myself.


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## Fractus (Jul 12, 2009)

HOLY HELL everyone! I'm not here to disrespect anyone on these forums, I'm here to learn.

I've listened to Gypsy all along! Notice every one of my improvements/mods to my box was Gypsy-inspired? I really do appreciate what I learned, but Gypsy is so rude about giving advice that I would rather hear different wording come from someone else with the same advice and experience. I was alright with it for a while but it's annoying being talked down to like I was born yesterday when the majority of the things I was told within the last several posts are things I already knew, and the things I didn't know were explained in the least respectful way possible. And if you just state something of course I'm going to question the background of the info before I decide to rearrange my setup to accomodate for it - You are mistaking my requests for verification for arguing. And considering when I was first introduced to Gypsy I was being criticized for using styrofoam because "it has a low flashpoint" I have every right to want to know the source of the advice!! We just started off on the wrong foot I think. Gypsy if you read this, no hard feelings! I just wish you were here here to help me without doing your absolute best to make me feel inferior and...retarded. I mean I can't be completely stupid because what I am doing is giving me sick results ever since I dropped it into this box.

Littlegrower2004 - I apologize for the confusion with the term "over-germinated", I only meant that the thing was 6 inches long from root to seed, and I didn't mean there was anything wrong with that either, it was just much more time than necessary, made it difficult to plant and I ended up handling the roots because it was really hard not to lol. And as far as strain goes, I was just wondering if anyone would have recognized it, I looked at a million pictures of 2 week old plants and they all look different but the ones that looked the most similar to mine were the lowriders. Please forgive me for my SIMPLE mistake, I was just curious. And how am I supposed to know there isn't some pro grower out there that has been using different strains for 50 years who will come across my post and say 'Yeah I've seen one just like that before'? Even then of course I couldn't be sure what it is but at least I would have some form of reference to it's growth tendencies, Unless even similar looking (young) strains have completely different adulthoods - that would be useful to know. It was just an optimistic question with a random guess. I didn't know people were going to make fun of me for it or I wouldn't have said it...
Also, if I didn't have that carbon filter on there right now my closet would smell like dope, because when I open the box that is ALL you can smell. My little plant smells and I don't understand why you guys think you can tell me I'm wrong. Of course you can't smell it, you're thousands of miles away!  And for anyone who may be wondering how effective this febreze filter really is, so far no scent comes through at all. (Don't get the misconception that because it says Febreze it puts off a funny smell to mask the weed, it actually is an unscented activated carbon sheet and I used two of them to make my own carbon filter and it's working awesome 

Purpdaddy - I got rid of those LEDs a long time ago because Gypsy said so.  Now her nights are spent in perfect dark and 70-73 fahrenheit @ 55% humidity.

Katatawnic - Point taken, but I welcomed friendly opinions I didn't want somebody to come tell me how stupid I am.. Anyway I already went over this. Maybe I'm just to sensitive, but I would just much rather have the educational advice without some of the comments that accompanied it. I didn't think anything I said so far was really unreasonable.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 12, 2009)

Maybe you will get it if it gets pounded into your head...

If its low 80's in your apartment, imagine how hot it gets in that box when its all shut up! I don't care what anyone has told you, 85 f is TOO HOT to properly grow weed indoors. You will end up will a crap yield of spindly nugs.

I know you are lazy when it comes to reading, but if you don't believe me then READ on how marijuana uptakes co2 at temperatures over 78f. Yes, 75-85 degrees, but often indoor growers use co2, which allows you to run your room hotter because of the amount of co2 available to the plants. Do you have co2 that you didn't mention???

If not ANYTHING OVER 78F IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. I don't care what you heard elsewhere, you are hearing real talk right here. So take my word for it. 

Instead of having an argument for everything that you don't agree with, consider the fact that true intelligence measures and deals with what one does NOT know, and the ability to accept and allow for this facilitates real learning. So realize you are a total noob and listen, or don't post asking for help!

My first grow was about .15 grams/watt. After listening to Gypsy a bit I managed .52 grams/watt on my last grow. I have harvested thousands of dollars of legal medicane for a 20th of the price, I have just started. IN OCTOBER 2008. AND I DON'T ARGUE WITH GYPSY LIKE YOU DO.

You had a great resource, maybe if you show proper contrition, he will return.

Don't piss off a Gypsy....

And I am not tryin to flame you. If you take this advice, however brash, you will be happy in time.


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## Fractus (Jul 12, 2009)

Thanks Jesse. No I don't have any CO2, and my apartment hits 80 degrees on a hot summer day, do you have any suggestions as to how I can control my temperatures be be below 78 if the temperature outside is 80 or higher? An expensive air conditioner isn't really in my budget..

For argument's sake though, on an anonymous internet community, how do I know who I can trust for reliable info learned from experience? I didn't realize Gypsy was a celebrity around here. That would explain the attitude towards me as a noob. I don't need any help figuring out what kind of a newb I am, and I'm not lazy when it comes to reading, but with all due respect, I have only been here for a few days, I can't possibly have read everything of use to me in that short amount of time. I can assure you this though, I have read for hours every night and learned a ton, and it wasn't until I got reading that I began to battle the points that were given to me as advice. Once I had knowledge from the resources on this very site, I have people like you for example telling me otherwise - the people who tell me to read are also the ones always telling me what I read is incorrect. So it's really a viscious circle.. 

And inside the box at mid-day it hits 85-86 degrees regularly and drops no less than 10 degrees at night when the lights are off.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 12, 2009)

I get where you are coming from. There can be a lot of conflicting info.

The main point I would make is this: go back and look at your posts. Sometimes, literally within MINUTES of Gypsy or someone else posting something, you came back with a rebuttle.

Would you do that in a different sort of apprenticeship? 

Maybe you didn't look at it that way, but that's really what it is here. Gypsy and others lile him have stood on the shoulders of giants, but ALSO learned the hard way on their own. For them to just impart thay knowledge upon you is a gift that perhaps you were not humble enough to receive. A GREAT gift indeed. A gift that can bring a mass saving of time, energy, money, and frustration.

He was trying to GIVE that to you. Maybe he can be cranky. To me its worth it. You made your own choice.

For those of us who he HAS helped and have LISTENED, we are grateful and quick to defend our GB. 

My advice would be to act a little more like a freshmen in college, in terms of deference to the upper classmen. Especially when one of them is willing to take you around and get you laid....so to speak


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 12, 2009)

Oh and in terms of cooling....

Its either get rid of the hot air or cool it. I run an a/c. Gypsy lives someplace cool, so he just properly vents the air out of his grow space....

But he has cool source air to use as intake into his room, I don't and neither do you it seems. That's why I use a/c.

You can order one big enough for your needs I am sure for under $200 from Walmart, guarenteed.

I am not a cooling expert. That's Gypsy's forte.


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## purpdaddy (Jul 12, 2009)

Fractus said:


> HOLY HELL everyone! I'm not here to disrespect anyone on these forums, I'm here to learn.
> 
> I've listened to Gypsy all along! Notice every one of my improvements/mods to my box was Gypsy-inspired? I really do appreciate what I learned, but Gypsy is so rude about giving advice that I would rather hear different wording come from someone else with the same advice and experience. I was alright with it for a while but it's annoying being talked down to like I was born yesterday when the majority of the things I was told within the last several posts are things I already knew, and the things I didn't know were explained in the least respectful way possible. And if you just state something of course I'm going to question the background of the info before I decide to rearrange my setup to accomodate for it - You are mistaking my requests for verification for arguing. And considering when I was first introduced to Gypsy I was being criticized for using styrofoam because "it has a low flashpoint" I have every right to want to know the source of the advice!! We just started off on the wrong foot I think. Gypsy if you read this, no hard feelings! I just wish you were here here to help me without doing your absolute best to make me feel inferior and...retarded. I mean I can't be completely stupid because what I am doing is giving me sick results ever since I dropped it into this box.
> 
> ...


not here to bash you man by far..dont take it the wrong way.
I see you made the lil improvements that gypsy inspired and thats good cause he knows what hes talkin bout..
Good! Got rid of leds cause they were gonna cause a prob!You i see you taking heed.But man just toughen up a lil bit the gypsy is not here to bash or give bad advice..well as you can see..but man feel free to ask i just grow hydro but i know a lil sumthin.


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## Fractus (Jul 12, 2009)

I would defend him too if there ever comes a time when someone doesn't believe something he has said when I know the he knows from experience. I know Gypsy knows his shit when it comes to growing but my defensive attitude it what makes me sure I don't make mistakes. If I don't jump to conclusions and debate things initially, then in the long run I'm more educated on every topic by the end of it. But like I said, despite my arguments, just look at my growbox and then tell me I never listened. The original design was all me, and I have changed it many times to favor the advice Gypsy gave me.

I've always been independent though, and I enjoy showing the world there is no one right way to do things but instead there are many answers to the same questions. When I was a freshman I had no trouble with the ladies, I didn't seek help from the ones that have done it before, I made my own mistakes and learned from them and in the end had better results than they did, which makes me glad that I didn't ask them, and do as they did or I would have never discovered my own methods. And the teachers that were teaching me things I didn't know - I would show them another method to get the same results that they had never heard of before. Ingenuity is part of my personality, arguing makes people smarter. Crankiness, however, will get you nowhere in life.. I've always been a firm believer that you treat others the way you want to be treated, and when I answered Gypsy with the same attitude he unsubscribed. I won't go begging for him to come back, but if he does perhaps I will keep that in mind and hold my tongue in the future.

I plan on doing some shopping and use my imagination to come up with a cheap and efficient and clever way of cooling my plants. But also, in a couple months the weather cools down here significantly, so I'd hate to be investing too much into a/c since I'll hardly get any use out of it. Maybe I'll let this plant just tough it out and see what happens - seeing as how this is still experimental. And my next plant will be done properly from day one, and also be in a cooler climate. It really depends how cheap I can get/build some form of cooling device. Thanks again for the feedback guys - I'm starting to realize maybe I don't say that nearly enough.


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## purpdaddy (Jul 12, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I would defend him too if there ever comes a time when someone doesn't believe something he has said when I know the he knows from experience. I know Gypsy knows his shit when it comes to growing but my defensive attitude it what makes me sure I don't make mistakes. If I don't jump to conclusions and debate things initially, then in the long run I'm more educated on every topic by the end of it. But like I said, despite my arguments, just look at my growbox and then tell me I never listened. The original design was all me, and I have changed it many times to favor the advice Gypsy gave me.
> 
> I've always been independent though, and I enjoy showing the world there is no one right way to do things but instead there are many answers to the same questions. When I was a freshman I had no trouble with the ladies, I didn't seek help from the ones that have done it before, I made my own mistakes and learned from them and in the end had better results than they did, which makes me glad that I didn't ask them, and do as they did or I would have never discovered my own methods. And the teachers that were teaching me things I didn't know - I would show them another method to get the same results that they had never heard of before. Ingenuity is part of my personality, arguing makes people smarter. Crankiness, however, will get you nowhere in life.. I've always been a firm believer that you treat others the way you want to be treated, and when I answered Gypsy with the same attitude he unsubscribed. I won't go begging for him to come back, but if he does perhaps I will keep that in mind and hold my tongue in the future.
> 
> I plan on doing some shopping and use my imagination to come up with a cheap and efficient and clever way of cooling my plants. But also, in a couple months the weather cools down here significantly, so I'd hate to be investing too much into a/c since I'll hardly get any use out of it. Maybe I'll let this plant just tough it out and see what happens - seeing as how this is still experimental. And my next plant will be done properly from day one, and also be in a cooler climate. It really depends how cheap I can get/build some form of cooling device. Thanks again for the feedback guys - I'm starting to realize maybe I don't say that nearly enough.


i absoluteley agree with you on that one bro...there is not only one wqy to grow but just make that grow more efficient!
I se you doin good so far man..its lookin alot better.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 12, 2009)

It seems to me you have a little more ego is growing than I do....

And Gypsy, for that matter. My advice, if you want to be ingenius go ahead. Just don't post a thread asking for feedback and criticism and then be surprised when you get it.

As far as crankiness goes, it is quite different than being rude. And Gypsy didn't unsubscribe because you were cranky back. Its because you don't get it, and he decided you weren't going to get it, at least not in a timely enough manner for his level of interest.

You brought up the possibility of you being over sensitive. I would go with that line of thinking.

I like your can do attitude though and your plant will survive and even produce a harvest for you in high temp conditions. Gypsy was trying to show you how to walk CORRECTLY, as opposed to your seeming desire to just WALK. 

Its ALL about environment. The soil ph, your temps and humidity, ventilation, proper nutrients, etc. Your attitude toward one carries over to everything. I am glad you had no issues with the ladies. Me neither, I am just big on analogies. But you will find a female pot plant can be as finicky as its human counter part so its best to just learn the right way, realizing that your way won't be it, because you don't have a knowledge base to draw from.

Gypsy knows that not planning means planning to fail. You will learn it too, in time, after much frustration 

Good luck, I will help if I can.


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## Fractus (Jul 12, 2009)

I have a plan and I will not fail  But my ego isn't what tells me this, it is this site. From seeing all of the results of other growers that produce nice plants in all different environments, and I built mine to mimic outdoor conditions, the only thing I didn't give it is space, because I don't have space to give it and I don't want to grow a monster. My grow setup is merely a variation/combination of many other ideas that I've taken from other successful grows on this site and so far my plant is following in their footsteps. I am open to suggestions as long as I feel they will be beneficial and practical for what I have going. And the point I was trying to make is that although two people may walk differently does it really make one of them wrong? My plant hasn't given me any sign that I'm doing anything wrong, no burn, not overwatered, not over-nuted,and if she's happy, then I'm happy. If you look at my pic it's evident that the stress is not due to heat, it was due to something that happened earlier in it's life because it's in the first leaves where there are issues, the rest of the plant seems to have adjusted to it's new environment. There are no curled up leaf edges or discolorations indicating heat damage. But for the record I'm much more compatible with your style of instruction, and I'm willing to listen and negotiate whatever suggestions or concerns you may have regarding the effectiveness of my design. I know that you are only taking your time answering me for my own good.

One question though - I'm just wondering which part of his advice I didn't take, or what part of what he told me did I not get? Perhaps you can explain it to me in a sense that I may better understand. And from looking at my plant and then looking at the setup, is there anything you see that will cause problems for me (aside from the possibility of future heat problems which I'm going to look into, and space because I will be doubling it sometime this week when my plant gets close to the lights). I've also considered that maybe exterior light can penetrate the styrofoam itself, seeing as how if light is getting out then it must be able to come back in. My temporary solution to this is that I keep my dark hours at night and keep my closet door closed, but when I switch to 12/12 there will still be daylight when the plant should be in complete darkness. Spraypainting could have saved me from this problem but I should have done that before planting in it. So now I'm trying to think of a good alternative.


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## purpdaddy (Jul 12, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I have a plan and I will not fail  But my ego isn't what tells me this, it is this site. From seeing all of the results of other growers that produce nice plants in all different environments, and I built mine to mimic outdoor conditions, the only thing I didn't give it is space, because I don't have space to give it and I don't want to grow a monster. My grow setup is merely a variation/combination of many other ideas that I've taken from other successful grows on this site and so far my plant is following in their footsteps. I am open to suggestions as long as I feel they will be beneficial and practical for what I have going. And the point I was trying to make is that although two people may walk differently does it really make one of them wrong? My plant hasn't given me any sign that I'm doing anything wrong, no burn, not overwatered, not over-nuted,and if she's happy, then I'm happy. If you look at my pic it's evident that the stress is not due to heat, it was due to something that happened earlier in it's life because it's in the first leaves where there are issues, the rest of the plant seems to have adjusted to it's new environment. There are no curled up leaf edges or discolorations indicating heat damage. But for the record I'm much more compatible with your style of instruction, and I'm willing to listen and negotiate whatever suggestions or concerns you may have regarding the effectiveness of my design. I know that you are only taking your time answering me for my own good.
> 
> One question though - I'm just wondering which part of his advice I didn't take, or what part of what he told me did I not get? Perhaps you can explain it to me in a sense that I may better understand. And from looking at my plant and then looking at the setup, is there anything you see that will cause problems for me (aside from the possibility of future heat problems which I'm going to look into, and space because I will be doubling it sometime this week when my plant gets close to the lights). I've also considered that maybe exterior light can penetrate the styrofoam itself, seeing as how if light is getting out then it must be able to come back in. My temporary solution to this is that I keep my dark hours at night and keep my closet door closed, but when I switch to 12/12 there will still be daylight when the plant should be in complete darkness. Spraypainting could have saved me from this problem but I should have done that before planting in it. So now I'm trying to think of a good alternative.


Man with that lil box you can just get sum panda film.and just drape it over the box..youll have to do that everyday but i promise you that you wont have any light leaks.


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## Fractus (Jul 12, 2009)

That could work, definitely a better idea than spraypainting my little girl  The only light leak would be around or through the carbon filter, it's pretty black though lol. I would just need to cut the panda film to fit over it nicely, maybe I could even find a way to keep the panda film on all the time because that probably makes it brighter on the inside too eh? I mean it makes sense I think haha, just because all the light showing through the styrofoam is then reflected and forced back into the styrofoam. I'll look into it dude


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 12, 2009)

the majority of younger plants, started from bagseed, that i have seen grown under cfls, led, hps, and flourescents have been very similiar to one another in stature and node structure. once the seeds have reached there preflower stage is when they really start differing from one another. the only thing you can guess about your strain is indica, sativa, or a mix and that would be by examining leave widths. from there you can accomadate for the future growth of the plant. for the odor, the reason we/i believe that its unneccesary for the air filters(at this point) and so on is because i have grown multiple mj plants. sure they have a smell but its sooo minimal compared to what it really smells like in flower. i bet your next grow you will hardly notice the smell of your veg plants after a good season of danky stench has really trained your noise hairs.


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## Fractus (Jul 12, 2009)

Haha you may be very right! However it is my closet in my room lol, so even a little bit of smell coming out over a long period of time may be enough to stink up my closet pretty quick including whatever is inside. I still use my closet as a closet too (of course I don't need to open it in the middle of the night during my lights-off phase). But when I start my 12/12, I wanna have the thing covered up so that no light seeps in when I open the closet and there is light in the room.
It may be slightly early for the filter but I'd rather be safe than sorry. I think maybe tomorrow I'm going to actually double up the coolers, my plant is growing so much everyday, I think it's time for me to give it some extra space. Once it starts expanding wildly but hasn't gotten too big, my plan is to flower - I've read that the plant will increase in size a lot during the flowering stage. From what I saw there is a lot of controversy over how much bigger it will get before it's ready to harvest. Does anyone have any input on how many times larger my plant will be from the time I switch to flower until the time I harvest? I want to time it right to make the most of my growing space.


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## hall0ween138 (Jul 12, 2009)

you can cut the wires on the fans that light the LEDs... and I would just tack a drye sheet over the exhaust and see how it works  lol


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## Katatawnic (Jul 12, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I was alright with it for a while but it's annoying being talked down to like I was born yesterday when the majority of the things I was told within the last several posts are things I already knew, and the things I didn't know were explained in the least respectful way possible.


If you think you experienced rude or "the least respectful way possible" then you must be used to everyone you know candy-coating everything they say to you. Gypsy is a "matter of fact" person. As am I, and many *many* other people. I can give you examples of disrespect if you need clarification. 



> And if you just state something of course I'm going to question the background of the info before I decide to rearrange my setup to accomodate for it - You are mistaking my requests for verification for arguing.


When I want to know sources, I state that I'm curious as to the why, not just the how. Which is the truth. I don't absorb something enough to *truly* learn it if I don't know *why* something works a certain way. I've seen that many people embarking on growing don't want to know the why, just the how. And many experienced growers giving advice are used to this, so that's what they give: the how. They're probably tired of explaining why this or that, when most people seeking answers don't want to read more than they *think* they need in order to get by.



> I just wish you [GypsyBush] were here here to help me without doing your absolute best to make me feel inferior and...retarded.


Look.... if someone asks for advice about something in which you're experienced, and you give it only to be challenged on each thing you advise, wouldn't you get tired of repeating yourself over and over and over and....?



> Katatawnic - Point taken, but I welcomed friendly opinions I didn't want somebody to come tell me how stupid I am..


Did I miss something? I don't recall anyone telling you that you're stupid, or anything of the sort.



> Maybe I'm just to sensitive


Finally, owning up to the problem!



Fractus said:


> For argument's sake though, on an anonymous internet community, how do I know who I can trust for reliable info learned from experience?


Read their grow journals. Read the advice they give others. Read what's happened due to advice taken by those others. You start figuring out who knows what when you READ.



> I didn't realize Gypsy was a celebrity around here. That would explain the attitude towards me as a noob.


Gypsy has no "attitude" about newbs. He's fully aware that everyone's just started out sometime, including himself. Read his "first tree" thread going on right now.... he's taking in *every piece of advice* given him by his "mentor" and is beyond humble about it. Learning means being able to be told, "You're not doing that right," and taking it with a grain of salt.



> I can assure you this though, I have read for hours every night and learned a ton, and it wasn't until I got reading that I began to battle the points that were given to me as advice. Once I had knowledge from the resources on this very site, I have people like you for example telling me otherwise - the people who tell me to read are also the ones always telling me what I read is incorrect. So it's really a viscious circle..


And that will continue. Yes, people have different ways of growing, *to an extent*. Vital things that are stated over and over again will stress or even kill your plants, however, are *not* "opinions" but truth. And even if someone tells you that if you do something differently will get you better results, but not necessarily vital for your plants' survivability.... they're only trying to *help* you have a better start than, just perhaps, they had. Treasure this!



bigjesse1922 said:


> The main point I would make is this: go back and look at your posts. Sometimes, literally within MINUTES of Gypsy or someone else posting something, you came back with a rebuttle.
> 
> Would you do that in a different sort of apprenticeship?


Excellent point! Apprenticeship isn't a very common thing anymore, and I'm beyond grateful that I've found it here. If I don't agree with advice given me, I either *(a)* thank the person for taking out the time to offer me help and move on to the next piece of advice that makes more sense to me, or *(b)* if I do "challenge" it, then it's with respect and genuine questions as to the how and why, because that's what I'm seeking: how and why, not whether or not I now feel "smart" because I might have been told that I'm wrong.



Fractus said:


> When I was a freshman I had no trouble with the ladies, I didn't seek help from the ones that have done it before, I made my own mistakes and learned from them and in the end had better results than they did, which makes me glad that I didn't ask them, and do as they did or I would have never discovered my own methods.


First, that was an analogy only. Second, if you want to learn from your own mistakes, then why did you come here asking for help?



> And the teachers that were teaching me things I didn't know - I would show them another method to get the same results that they had never heard of before.


And there we have it.... the Genius Syndrome. Can't tell 'em anything they don't already know, much less without hearing how they can do it just as well their own way. I've been guilty of this myself, until life handed me a few pieces of Humble Pie. If I'm *asking for advice*, then I'm certainly in no position to tell those giving me that advice how to do it another way. If I don't need advice, then there's certainly no reason for me to be asking in the first place. Dontcha think?!



> Ingenuity is part of my personality, arguing makes people smarter.


No. *Discussing* differences of opinion makes people smarter. *Arguing* them makes people angry. I can see why Gypsy unsubscribed.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 12, 2009)

I don't really want to re-hash your debate with Gypsy point-by-point.

Gypsy just won't spend time helping people reinvent the wheel is all, and, as you have said, you want to experiment.

Second, understand that your room temps/humidity/air flow are your primary concerns in growing, IMO. 

You really need to re-think your entire design in my opinion. Which may seem like a slap in the face, it may seem to you like I am dooming your grow with no evidence or reasoning.

As I said before, I want you to succeed. But you are simply not going to be able to adequately cool the amount of light its going to take to grow a worthy yield growing in something that is designed to maintain whatever temperature you have it at. It will keep things hot or cold, depending upon what you put in it, correct?

Why not build yourself a little wood frame out of 1" x 1" pieces and make a double layer panda film tent. You can design it to be nice and small. You could grow with CFL's, use a little 4" inline fan hooked to a carbon filter with passive intake and vent the hot air out of the closet via a little DIY setup.

You have a great mechanical aptitude and I think you will be successful. I know you can grow weed in what you have, yes. Do I think the product is going to be worth the time, energy, investment, and care? No, I do not, and trust me I have learned the hard way from warm temped, poor ventilated grows that didn't produce what I wanted. I am just trying to save you from that.

Have you considered maybe a little 250 watt HPS setup? You could aircool the lights and everything! I bet you could invest around $500 and set yourself up to get 2x return on your first run. 3 plants under a 250 watt HPS setup could yield 4 z's total, at a consersative guess of $250 a zone, that's 1000 in medicane on your first run.

Sure, do this grow and learn. But take it from me, planning is the way to go.


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 12, 2009)

fractus- gypsy already showed you his results and that is SOG straight clone to flower with no veg time. he gave you his heights and you should be able to figure off that hw big yours will get. if that doesnt work guess about 2 X maybe a lil more.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 13, 2009)

Ok, check this out, I have done some leg work for you. Consider this:

http://htgsupply.com/growlights.asp?categoryID=1&subcategoryID=101&typeID=92

For $183 (not including shipping), you can get a complete 250 watt HPS system. This includes the ballast, bulb, reflector, socket, power cord, etc. You might need to upgrade the reflector so you can air cool it, I didn't check which one it comes with standard.

Then, to aircool you light, AND eliminate the smell, you hook up this:
http://htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=52531

For $120 (not including shipping), you get a 4" inline fan AND carbon filter. IMO, you can cool your light and exhaust your room through the filter with just this one fan. Some, including Gypsy, correctly believe that its not best to mix. To make this run PERFECTLY, you should spend another $80 and get another 4" inline fan and run the light exhaust and the room exhaust seperately. But it WILL work the other way. I know because I run one 6" fan and it cools my 1000 watt light to the point where I can touch the glass that its incased in and not burn my hand, AND it killed the smell of over 12+ ounces of fresh, dense nugs.

AND LASTLY, to control your temps, for $80, a 5000 BTU A/C that will cool up to 150 sq. Ft.
http://www.boscovs.com/StoreFrontWeb/Product.bos?quantity=1&itemNumber=8025&type=Product

183
+ 120
+80
-----------
$383. This isn't including shipping or the perfect seperate exhaust systems. Or tax, if applicable, or perhaps a better reflector.

Let's say you get the fan, (80), and the shipping, (75, total guess), and a better reflector (60...fair guess)

That's 215 on top of 383 for a max (IMO) total of $598 for a kick ass small little setup.

Maybe $50 max for the panda film and wood, another $20 or so for excellent ducting and clamps....

I mean man, how long do you wanna smoke for free? Its up to you...Can you get together this much cash? If so, and you plan it right, and do it...then you can never pay again....

Or do you like paying for something that God gave us to grow in the ground?? 

Not trying to be a smart ass. It's medicane for me. I just want you to do well!


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## Fractus (Jul 13, 2009)

Katatawnic, to be honest this whole thing is getting rather monotonous and if you wouldn't mind I'd like to divert the attention back to the thread topic. I don't mean to brush you off or anything because you clearly spent a fair amount of time analysing every word I said like it's a piece of lyric poetry or something and took things way too literally and way past what I intended. But for what it's worth I get your point and I took it to heart. Lets just let this one go now.



> Why not build yourself a little wood frame out of 1" x 1" pieces and make a double layer panda film tent. You can design it to be nice and small. You could grow with CFL's, use a little 4" inline fan hooked to a carbon filter with passive intake and vent the hot air out of the closet via a little DIY setup.


This is not a bad idea at all, it just requires a bit more construction with tools that I don't have on hand, I don't have a drill or a saw in my apartment, that's one of the reasons why I went with styrofoam. But since I'm running into problems maybe it would be worth the time and effort to find another plan. I have all the things I need for a new design though if I had nother box. I may still double mine up for a day or two just to see if it works any better, simply because it will only cost me 8$ and take half an hour to do. And if that solves my problems then I may not need to search any farther. But if I don't like what I see I'll be on the lookout for another design.

Dude I can't believe you just went through all that for me. 
As far as HPS I'm not sure if that's the solution for me. I really don't want to be growing anymore than one plant at a time, and since I'm not doing it to make money I'd be investing 500+ in a personal project. I would kinda like to stick to CFLs for this one. I spent less than the price of an oz for everything I have purchased so far though, and the supplies are good for more than one plant of course  It's just not really practical for me to have kind of a system in here. But I really like the idea of separate light and plant compartments and separate cooling, that would solve everything. Gimme a few minutes I think I'm onto something, I'm going to draw a little demonstration of something I just thought of in Paint and post it here.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 13, 2009)

I don't make money off what I do either, DO NOT misunderstand. I have never, nor will never, sell anything. I don't even share to be totally honest, at risk of sounding like a prick.

But its a way to put a $ value to something.

Why wouldn't you want to grow more than I plant? In Canada, the penalties for 1 are the same as for three. Do you only smoke once a week or something?

I did a total run with over 850 watts of ACTUAL CFL watts, not the incandescent conversion total. And I had six plants that vegged for over 2 months and flower for 77 days. Guess my yield? Just over three ounces. Not worth the time, money, electricity, water, nutrients, etc, etc.

So I ask, how much would you ideally like to be able to smoke, per week, in terms of weight. A dub? An 8th? A gram? You tell me.


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## Fractus (Jul 13, 2009)

To be completely honest, it sort of just falls into my hands because I have lots of friends that call me because they want someone to smoke a joint with and they buy and they share and it happens all the time, not because I'm cheap, but because I'm good stoned company and it's always a good time  Never a dull moment. This is just my project and I'm looking forward to having a taste of my own harvest that's all. This is my first plant ever in life, not just weed, any plant! And for me I think it's just much easier to conceal one plant in a cooler than 3 under an HPS setup in my closet, maybe when I move out of this apartment I'll be looking into that  

So far I have under 150 watts in the box generating over 10 000 lumens, and my optimistic goal is to get a half oz from it. My little diagram is done btw haha. You may laugh at my drawing but I want you to actually focus on the concept and let me know what you think. The blue arrow is the intake air from the outside of this....thing. The middle shows a plant inside a transparent cylinder/dome of some sort - made out of whatever.. The red arrows show that air would be vented past the plants and then over the lights and out the exhaust by means of the pull from a single fan, would this work just similar to having two cooling/vent systems, one for the lights and one for the plant? Could it save in ventilation costs if people just vent past the plant first and then use that air to run past the lights? The design could look like whatever you wanted to and I definitely wouldn't build one like this, I just drew this to demonstrate the idea. Notice I only vented one side of lights, I was getting discouraged with my Paint performance and just gave up there heh.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 13, 2009)

I think you should re-evaluate your assumption that 3 plants wouldn't be easy to hide. I have had an apartment inspection and passed with flying colors, and I have a 1k system and, well, more than 3 plants 

But, to your design....I won't laugh, I think the graphic is better then I could do....props there.

But the design itself is flawed. Growing without a strong light source directly over the canopy with mean large fan leave that protrude a large amount from the plant and create a lot of shade for busites, which is not ideal.

If you insist going with CFL'S, design a DIY refletor that you can fasten bulbs to and suspend over the plants, not around, If you spend the $ and get a proper 4" exhaust, a passive intake and you should be good, provided your source air is cool enough....this is where the ac becomes needed if its not...


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 13, 2009)

BTW, lumens don't really mean much.

Google PAR, "Photosynthetically Active Radiation"


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## Fractus (Jul 13, 2009)

All excellent points! In that case maybe what I should do is pull all the lights out of my box, leave the plant inside that strofoam cooler because it serves as a nice plantpot lol, plant 2 more plants in with it, one on each side, I think there is lots of room in there for it if I were to remove the light fixtures in the sides, and then build myself another box, air-tight with good intake/exhaust setup, lights all with reflectors overhead on some makeshift lowering system, and have my styrofoam cooler inside this growbox, instead of having my 2-in-1 growbox-pot that has been found to be flawed in so many ways lol. Or even a small 50$ cabinet from walmart would do the trick.. I'm not kicking myself for what I've done though because my plant is growing like there is no tomorrow and I only spent 8$ on my cooler-pot. 

I looked up PAR, I knew a bit about this before but I didn't realize that was the proper term for it haha. I knew that the blue range is for veg and the red is for flowering, which is why I invested in both sets of bulbs, but I just use them in combination instead of all one or the other. I read about people doing it like this and had great results, but I also saw people use all 6500k for veg and then 2700k for flower but their buds/plants weren't any bigger or better, so to speak. After further investigation I saw that the blue light isn't for "vegging" lol it's actually for leaf growth, I don't see why you would want to slow down leaf growth during the flowering stage by removing all of the blue light.. Do you think that perhaps if using them both simultaneously, the blue light helps produce the leaves that will also be taking in red light to flower and bud? Maybe with more blue light the leaves get bigger and capture much more red resulting in bigger buds even.. I'm just rambling now but it was an interesting train of thought lol. This seems like one of those places where there are two right answers but most people are a firm believer of either one option or the other.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 13, 2009)

I think a tent is still your best bet. You can grow the plants in the cooler if you want it wouldn't hurt. 

As for light spectrum. Blue light encourages thick, dense, green, radient growth with, very importantly, short internodal lengths. Red spectrum light during veg promotes root and stem growth and makes a plant stetch and grow spindly. I am currently vegging out my next grow under 1000 watts of 7200k metal halide and seeing amazing results. I have gotten 5-8" of growth in 3 weeks on my current clones, and I got them in bad shape, with nute defs and poor leaf structure.

I would say all 6500k if you can. This is the ideal light for veg. I made my own 9x 23 watt CFL reflector and added two 2700k bulbs just for variety. It doesn't hurt to mix it up a little.


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## Fractus (Jul 13, 2009)

That sounds like a sick setup you have going! I really don't want to go through the hassle of buying and shipping a tent here + I'm a DIY kinda guy, I'm gonna go looking for creative FUNCTIONAL growbox ideas that I can use my CFLs in. Speaking of which, I did a bit more browsing and learned some useful stuff. Here is a diagram I found of the useful wavelengths to the different pigments of the plant during photosynthesis:





Notice that the most useful wavelengths are in the 450nm(blue) area and again in the 650nm(red) area.
These peak wavelengths directly correspond to the temperature rating in Kelvins using an equation known as Wien's Law.
It states: Peak wavelength (nm) = 3,000,000 / Colour temp (Kelvins)
Of course most bulbs are full-spectrum, but they are rated in Kelvins according to its temperature, we just often refer to it as colour because the thermal radiation put out would have a colour (e.g. 6500 is deep blue, etc).

This means that anything between 7500K and 6500K is hitting key points of the spectrum (deep blue) with the most intensity and also giving off some of all the other areas as well. At 4500K the peak wavelength is at 666nm which would be very useful for the pigments in the plant that promote flowering. However at 2700 the peak wavelength is above 1000nm, which is beyond the visible colour spectrum and relatively useless to a plant, seems pointless to feed a plant light it can't use doesn't it? Theoretically, 4000 to 5000K bulbs should be more effective than 2700K for flowering, unless there is an error with my math.. Here is a graph to help illustrate my point, just notice the Kelvin line intersecting the highest in the red zone:





This also shows that 6500K is the most effective range for vegging, 7200 is actually higher than it needs to be, but still great and very effective. This info also puts a 4500K bulb's max intensity at a 666 nanometer wavelength, ideal for producing the red part of the spectrum that will most effectively stimulate the pigments that cause flowering. Anyway, I'm rambling again, just thought I would share what I think I learned tonight lol, and if this is incorrect someone please point it out because I would hate to correct a lighting setup for these numbers if I have been misinformed lol! Now I feel like I have a genuine knowledge for lighting vs. plant usefulness  Maybe there is already a thread about this that I managed to overlook, I just googled these images and read a few smart guys' physics sites lol.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 13, 2009)

blah blah blah...

this may help... or not...

just felt like being an asshole some more I guess...

full instructions on the link...

 BYE!

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/122687-gypsys-600-watt-home-made.html


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 13, 2009)

Gypsy's tent is bad ass!

Tents are easier to control than grow boxes. Keep this in mind. You can make a tent a box. You are assuming I think you should buy one. I don't. Make the sob! Cheap!


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 13, 2009)

thundercat has an amazing DIY cfl reflector that has like 8 cfls in it. do a search on his name then click his thread called thundercats grooooooow and you will see the reflector on the first pg.


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## Fractus (Jul 13, 2009)

Gypsy's tent IS bad ass but i'm looking for something much more primitive. I know for less cost it's probably not possible to make anytrhing more effective and efficient than that tent but it's just a lot bigger and more complex (and more expensive initially) than what I want to do. Although I really might get some ducting and a 4inch inline fan because it looks badass.

I checked thundercats reflector, pretty sweet really. There are so many ideas running around in my head now I just need to decide on one or a few and get reative but sticking to the rules of growtents/boxes.


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 13, 2009)

i was kinda waching this cooler grow to see how it worked for you. before you switch it out you wanna update some pics on the plants growth?

i agree that upgrades are needed when you start off simple, humble i should say. but the plant will thank you for it.

as far as keeping your plant in the cooler or planting 2 more in there; dont bother. you should actually transplant that into a pot if your gonna build a more conventional growbox before the roots reach all the way across the bottom of the cooler and are a mess to keep together.

good luck fractus keep us posted


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## Fractus (Jul 13, 2009)

Well actually it was working fine, I'm switching it up because I can't walk properly... or something like that.. Jk haha! I just know that I can do better so I'm going to see what else I can come up with. Here's a couple pics I took 15 minutes ago so you can see where it's at.

Remember 40 hours ago:






And now:















You can see it better when I cover up the lights with a book or something, my Razr camera isn't the greatest lol.






But it's getting so big now that it's getting close to the lights and I can see that the leaf edges are starting to curl, it's time for change. I could double stack the coolers today and it would be great for a while but I think I'm gonna try something other than styrofoam instead..


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## usuf (Jul 13, 2009)

Hey man this has been a good post, definitely an interesting read. I totally understand what you are trying to go for, a cheap & easy way to grow personal.. I was in the same boat and went with a rubbermaid setup, you should check it out. Now that is only my vegging setup, I've got a really small closet with a 250 watt hps, but the theme is still simplicity. BTW, can't wait for Starcraft 2 bro! ;P


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 13, 2009)

Usuf, didn't you find that it was just worth it to pony up the cash and get the HPS?

If you had it to do over, would you still have gone with HID lighting for flower?


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## GypsyBush (Jul 13, 2009)

Fractus said:


> Gypsy's tent IS bad ass but i'm looking for something much more primitive. I know for less cost it's probably not possible to make anytrhing more effective and efficient than that tent but it's just a lot bigger and more complex (and more expensive initially) than what I want to do. Although I really might get some ducting and a 4inch inline fan because it looks badass.
> 
> I checked thundercats reflector, pretty sweet really. There are so many ideas running around in my head now I just need to decide on one or a few and get reative but sticking to the rules of growtents/boxes.


I just meant it as a point of reference to a tent... 

to show how easily it can be done... like wrapping a gift

the tent itself cost $50 and you could easily run it with cfls or whatever ...

...


can I ask you a question?...

What is your ULTIMATE goal in growing?


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## usuf (Jul 13, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> Usuf, didn't you find that it was just worth it to pony up the cash and get the HPS?
> 
> If you had it to do over, would you still have gone with HID lighting for flower?



I would absolutely positively spend the coin on HID for flowering if I had to start over again. The ballast, reflector and 2 bulbs(1 was a MH convo) cost $125 CAD. The first harvest paid for it x10. I decided on the rubbermaid so that I could start a grow cycle with no flowering downtime ;D


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## Fractus (Jul 13, 2009)

Holy hell do I know you?? Haha. I'll check out your setup, and come back in an hour and see what I've done with mine for now until I think of something better


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 13, 2009)

I asked the same question Gypsy and never really got a straight answer. I don't think he knows yet. I think he is going to figure it out at he goes. Which, will frustrate him.

What is your ultimate goal? If you don't know, take a few minutes, sit down and think about it.

Get back to us.


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## Fractus (Jul 13, 2009)

Oh sorry guys I completely overlooked Gypsy's question, I was reading the last post on the previous page and replied to it, my bad.
My real goal is to find the least expensive way possible to grow the nicest plant that I can in the space that I am willing to sacrifice for it. That's a pretty specific goal really, I bought all the cheapest supplies and I'm growing a healthy looking plant (so far) and I don't have a lot of room for this and don't want to go overboard on my first attempt. I wanna start small, go start to finish for educational purposes. And probably on my next try I will go bigger scale.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 13, 2009)

So basically I am right.

Sure, you want to grow the nicest plant you can. That's a given, or at least should be.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to find your happy place in terms of what you want to do and what you want your goal to be. Just keep it cheap until then is my advice, because every penny you spend now is going to be replaced eventually (for the most part, not everything, obviously).


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## TheMightyS (Jul 13, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I think you are doing good...
> It's a nice experiment...
> 
> It will teach you a lot ..
> ...


truuuu dat!


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## GypsyBush (Jul 13, 2009)

do you want the least expensive way to grow ... or do you want the least expensive buds?

there is a difference...


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## Chelseys Man (Jul 14, 2009)

look at this box


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## Fractus (Jul 14, 2009)

I'm really looking for the least expensive grow. A little higher power bill won't phase me, paying for wattage as low as what I'm using, there won't be a significant $$ difference, it would take years for it be equal cost to run expensive equipment and require less. watt/bud doesn't concern me at this point. I'm really just looking for the cheapest setup I can come up with that works to grow a pretty plant. Today I knew my plant needed something rearraged or it was going to go downhill, I'm still looking into different boxes but for now this is what I have resorted to:






Lights, cords, fans are all now installed in the upper compartment of the top cooler. The cover was cut to fit inside and separates the grow section from the electrical stuff. 






What the inside of the top half looks like. Using this setup I can adjust the height of the lights up until the point where if I need to I can mount straight into the top of the box and remove the median altogether. The holes you see cut into it is the only place where air can come for my exhaust fans, it pulls from directly above the plant with the passive holes still in the bottom. My plant is getting blown around when I look through my passive vents so I know it's working.. If you're concerned that the light fixture may fall out of place, I tested that too, and the friction alone from the snug fit of the styrofoam shelf is enough to support the weight, the duct tape is just precautionary, and helps seal any airleaks, I want it all to go through my overhead slots. You have also noticed I reduced to 4 bulbs instead of six. I did this because of heat and also for space. Hopefully it is still ample light for the plant to keep growing at it's current rate.






My baby was curling, but the temperature is much lower now as you can see, maybe this will do the trick! Although this pic was taken at 2200h and the ambient temp was around 75. My thermo there is reading 26 Celcius (79 F).


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 14, 2009)

looks good man, digging the upgrade. its so simple it could actually work


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## Fractus (Jul 14, 2009)

Since then I put in a little fresh soil and watered, even gave a quarter dose of cheap ass ferts, I did it once before and it didn't hurt anything, maybe even helped it grow faster, so I did it again. I got these little miracle-gro singles, water soluble. I just sprinkled a little into my bottle of water and then poured it in. 24-8-16. I'm not PH-ing unless the plant shows signs of stress, if it doesn't I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.  I'm open to suggestions if anyone can think of anything that will make my improved box any better. (As long as you don't say "get a new box"  )


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## GypsyBush (Jul 14, 2009)

Fractus...

I owe you an apology..

I thought you were actually trying to get CHEAP BUDS... 

But for what you are trying to do ... it's perfect...

My mis-understanding...

Sorry... now it all makes more sense...


Keep it up...


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## Fractus (Jul 14, 2009)

And I owe you an apology for being such a shitty newb, we had many misunderstandings, I learned from all of it though. Glad to see the past is behind us then  Thanks for the supposrt Gypsy!


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 14, 2009)

She looks pretty good...

The leaves look to be curled upward slightly...or is it just me?


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## Fractus (Jul 14, 2009)

Yeah the are curled, the plant outgrew the old box design and got a bit too close to the lights, today was renovation day. Hopefully it goes back to normal. I think I fixed the problem. I'll let it adjust for a day or two and post more pics, see if there's any improvement.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 14, 2009)

I assume there is sodium in the miracle grow? NaCl?


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## Fractus (Jul 14, 2009)

I really don't know, the only ingredients listed on the package are Nitrogen ->24%, Phosphate in the form of P2O5 ->8%, and Potash (K2O) ->16%. That only adds up to 48% though, no idea what else is in it.


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## nickbbad (Jul 14, 2009)

If your soil has nutes in it don't fertilize anymore for a while you will end up over doing it. Its one of the most common mistakes newbs make. Its much better to underfeed than overfeed.


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## Fractus (Jul 14, 2009)

Yeah so I've heard. I'm doing my best to not make that mistake which is why I only gave a quarter of the ratio of what the instructions say. My soil is natural all purpose potting soil, no nutes. (I hand-mixed like 1/3 perlite 2/3 soil? Maybe a bit less perlite than that, I was just eye-ballin' it) So I didn't figure this would do it any harm. Do you think it's ok to continue what I'm doing, giving a weak shot of MG every one to two weeks?


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 14, 2009)

i dont think it can hurt, but if your gonna use chemical nutes i think you should upgrade from the MG and get something particularly for veging and have something ready for flowering nutes. i dont like to use chemical nuts anywasys, i like to keep things organic, which is why i cand sugest something by name.

everything looks fine so i doubt the 1/4 dose of MG could do any real harm, i just dont think its ideal


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 14, 2009)

MG is prett harsh for young plants.

I started with MG too. Then I realiazed there was something better. Fox Farm.


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## Fractus (Jul 14, 2009)

Everyone says Fox Farms is the best. It must be the best haha, I'll look into it, hopefully there's a local store that would have some - there's plenty of hardware stores and stuff with gardening centres in them around here.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 14, 2009)

You can order it online as well.


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 14, 2009)

i havent seen foxfarm anywhere; home depot, walmart, koopmans. worms way said they were out of stock or didnt have it at that location and would order some for me


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## purpdaddy (Jul 14, 2009)

i suggest general hydroponics 3part flora.The additives are awesom


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## Fractus (Jul 14, 2009)

Just did some research, found out that there is a hydroponics gardening and equipment store local, maybe i'll try that out


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 14, 2009)

Sorry purp but I have to disagree.

GH just isnt formulated for soil grows like Fox Farm is. They lack the microbial qualities of a Fox Farm for soil growing.


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## purpdaddy (Jul 15, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> Sorry purp but I have to disagree.
> 
> GH just isnt formulated for soil grows like Fox Farm is. They lack the microbial qualities of a Fox Farm for soil growing.


ive never grown in soil or soilless mix but i can tell you that for hydro..well pics speak for themselves.

But GH makes nutrientd for soil like floranova


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 15, 2009)

Well purp I wouldn't argue with you about hydro that's for sure!

I just know from experience that FoxFarm is badass for soil!


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## robert420 (Jul 15, 2009)

i think ill build one!!!


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## Fractus (Jul 16, 2009)

Took a couple recent pics, just to keep you all updated  She's getting bigger, little leaves are sprouting from every crotch, this thing is so bushy it's retarded. Is that normal? there is no more than 1cm of straight stem/branch until you get to another stem/branch that comes out of it. It's staying super short and getting a lot wider. Let me know what you think

























That is what the temp always is now with the lights on, and drops 4-6 degrees celcius with lights off.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 16, 2009)

It looks great!

Does your thermometer say 55f?


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## Fractus (Jul 16, 2009)

55% humidity


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 16, 2009)

I knew I was missing something lol.

That's one reason its so happy. 55% rH is prefect for veg if you ask me.


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## Old Fat Hippy (Jul 16, 2009)

I think it's totally cool. Having never used a grow box, I cant predict any problems that might arise.
One thing does concern me...how will you know your ONE plant is female? it would be a shame to spend six weeks growing one plant from seed...only to discover it's male!
Have you got female clones or a sourse for them? You cant really count on a feminized seed to always really be female.
I dont see anything wrong with starting three plants, vegging five, maybe six weeks, going to 12/12...then picking the one best female....? 

Looks like a fine box, man.

Old Fat Hippy


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 16, 2009)

Old Fat Hippy said:


> I think it's totally cool. Having never used a grow box, I cant predict any problems that might arise.
> One thing does concern me...how will you know your ONE plant is female? it would be a shame to spend six weeks growing one plant from seed...only to discover it's male!
> Have you got female clones or a sourse for them? You cant really count on a feminized seed to always really be female.
> I dont see anything wrong with starting three plants, vegging five, maybe six weeks, going to 12/12...then picking the one best female....?
> ...


thats what i warn people about all the time

fractus- your plant looks great! it would be a problem it it was strechy


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 16, 2009)

Fractus this is another point I never made because you seemed set on one plant...

But they are right....

They can be male...

Wouldn't that suck? Not to hex you...

Just a good reason to start more than 1...


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## Fractus (Jul 16, 2009)

Yeah I really have no idea if it's going to be female or male, I don't know if it was feminized but I really doubt it, I don't know anything about it for sure really. I just know a guy who knows a guy. That's a great idea though, for this one I'm just gonna hope for a female and then if it isn't I'll start 3 new seedlings in there and veg till I can sex them. Thanks for the tip!


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 16, 2009)

fractus- did you ever go look at other cfl grows on this site?? a majority of those who grow with them can place them extremely close to the plants with no ill effects. therefore allowing the plant to have a very tight node structure with lil to no stretching. that is why your is looking so bushy. closer light source really makes these plants short fat and happy.


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## Fractus (Jul 16, 2009)

Yeah I knew that actually, but mine just seems abnormally short to be that wide, it hasn't gotten much taller at all in a long time it just keeps growing out. I mean it's only 4-1/2 inches tall right now lol, and 8" diameter, you can't see the stem through the leaves, if you push leaves out of the way, you just see a bunch more little leaves lol. I'm not worried, I don't think anything is wrong, it just seems really short/wide/bushy to me. Then again it is the first marijuana plant I have ever grown, so it's all new to me. "She" seems happy though I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 16, 2009)

Fractus, since you need a girl...

Remember, light leaks, ph fluctuation, improper ph, poor airflow, heat, low humidity, all of these things can stress a plant. And a stressed plant, is likely to be a male plant.

So, I would really advise you to get a ph meter for your soil AND nutrient solution before feeding.

The soil should be at 6.3-6.5, and so should your water and nutrient solution.

It seems like the humidity and temps are under control, thus I imagine the airflow is adequate. 

Make sure the ph is on point.


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## robert420 (Jul 16, 2009)

given the short height of your container im giving props as to how short and bushy your plant is so it can squeeze all of the bud out it can


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 16, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> Fractus, since you need a girl...
> 
> Remember, light leaks, ph fluctuation, improper ph, poor airflow, heat, low humidity, all of these things can stress a plant. And a stressed plant, is likely to be a male plant.
> 
> ...


jesse im pretty sure the sex is determined way before the plant is growing. the day its dropped or taken from its mother, it has a sex. so lights leaks and other stressor right now wont be a factor. that is if it is female then all those things would be a factor cause that could cause a hermie. and its possible that this seed is already a hermie if its bagseed, unless someone knew they were pollinating a female and were still going to sell it.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 16, 2009)

littlegrower2004 said:


> jesse im pretty sure the sex is determined way before the plant is growing. the day its dropped or taken from its mother, it has a sex. so lights leaks and other stressor right now wont be a factor. that is if it is female then all those things would be a factor cause that could cause a hermie. and its possible that this seed is already a hermie if its bagseed, unless someone knew they were pollinating a female and were still going to sell it.


I can only go with what I know...

I would have to see some science to swallow this argument...

Its possible I suppose. I certainly don't claim to know everything, by any stretch...

I have been told by people who know far more than me that sex can be effected by stress.


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## robert420 (Jul 16, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> I have been told by people who know far more than me that sex can be effected by stress.


First hand experience, light can effect it i had 3 months of Christmas grow go down the drain due to a light leak.2 hermies


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## Fractus (Jul 16, 2009)

Good debate, I don't know anything about it so when you guys figure it out let me know


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 16, 2009)

robert420 said:


> First hand experience, light can effect it i had 3 months of Christmas grow go down the drain due to a light leak.2 hermies


I have had hermies late in flower as well from lights leaks.

But I would argue that while a female seed may not morph into a male one, it can, based on environment and stress, turn into a "male." By this I mean a hermie from EARLY flower on, IE it will produce nothing worthwhile, as its energy will be used growing seeds, not big sticky buds to catch pollen.

This is different than a plant shooting off bananas in late flower. I have had this happen and still got great smoke from it, because it happened late in flower and the plant had already had a chance to produce the buds/resin.


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## purpdaddy (Jul 17, 2009)

fractus..want these???then go hid lighting


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## Fractus (Jul 20, 2009)

It's been a few days, I figured people who are curious about my box could use a grow update.

I haven't changed anything about my setup in the past 90 hours since my last pictures. Remember what it looked like then:






And this is what it looks like now:















(Sorry about the lighting on that one, the lights are so bright that my phone/camera adjusted and made it all look dark)





Very bushy and full through the sides. A lot of the leaves aren't even growing flat out because there isn't enough room, all the leaves push each other. I can't see in there to count the nodes but the top leaves are still coming in sets of two, each have 9 blades now. I was told that depending on the strain, the plant can be mature and still do this, and not alternate sides. I want to flower it soon because I'm afraid of how big it will get over its whole flower stage. What do you think? How long should I wait from now until flowering, keeping in mind the space I have to work with? When I do the lights are going higher to the roof of the box as well.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 20, 2009)

I would flower now... depending on strain she may double or even triple in size... though she looks very Indicaish.. so prolly double...


Looks healthy though... good job!


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## Fractus (Jul 20, 2009)

Thanks man! I'll probably raise my lights up and switch over to 12/12 tomorrow. I'll keep ya posted.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 20, 2009)

I agree. Its going to get way bushy too so flower that girl (hopefully!)

She looks good man! Veru healthy. I would agree with Gypsy that it is very likely indica.


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## Fractus (Jul 20, 2009)

Tonight is my plant's first 12/12 day. I'm gonna keep a close eye on it and hope it doesn't grow balls


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## robert420 (Jul 20, 2009)

Fractus said:


> Tonight is my plant's first 12/12 day. I'm gonna keep a close eye on it and hope it doesn't grow balls


im officialy repping you for this grow


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## SimplyBaked (Jul 20, 2009)

i think i will try one of these setups with a bagseed...just to give it a go


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 20, 2009)

good job man id flower now too. maybe switch to 2700k but 12/12 should be enough. i hope its a girl too, i guess well see in about a week or so if it has balls or hairs


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## Fractus (Jul 21, 2009)

I'm already running 2 x 2700K's and 2 x 6500K's ever since I transplanted. I do have 2 extra 2700K's with mounts just laying here though so maybe tossing that in will help "her".


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 21, 2009)

it is all good then


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## thatdjsnow (Jul 21, 2009)

Fractus said:


> Tonight is my plant's first 12/12 day. I'm gonna keep a close eye on it and hope it doesn't grow balls


Hey fractus, ya shithead! 

I see you've switched to 12/12, but have you wrapped that cooler up in some duct tape or something to not let light get in (seeing as it glows like hell when the lights are on, I'm sure light gets in too)?? Have you made some sort of light trap for your fans/intake holes so light doesn't get it? huh? HUH?!?  Just hoping ya didnt forget about light leaks bro.

By the way, what is the age of your plants now? Do ya know the exact day?


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 21, 2009)

i think he has the grow box inside the closet so as long as he stays out of the closet during dark time light leaks should be a nonproblem


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 21, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I'm already running 2 x 2700K's and 2 x 6500K's ever since I transplanted. I do have 2 extra 2700K's with mounts just laying here though so maybe tossing that in will help "her".


absolutely more light will help. you cant over do it with cfls. why would you move the light up when you switch to 12/12? you should probably wait till it starts to stretch and really get close to the lights before you move them. otherwise your just asking it to stretch more.


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## Fractus (Jul 21, 2009)

well it just doesn't have any height at all, but the lights are quite low over it and I want it to use up all of the space it has, right now you can tell it's height is very restricted by where my lights are. I think I'm gonna have 6 cfls about 6 inches higher than it is now, i'll show you what I mean when I do it and i'll post some pics.

Yes it is safe in my closet but I drape a blanket over it anyway that has holes cut in it for ventilation purposes


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 21, 2009)

When growing with CFL'S, its best to keep the lights within 2" of the plant.

They are going to be stretching anyway because of flower and the change to red spectrum light (2700k). Therefore, moving the lights up away from the plants at a distance of greater than 2" will only add to this stretching effect, which, in your particular situation, is not desirable.


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## sweet island skunk09 (Jul 21, 2009)

ive only grown once but i think this is a great idea i read this whole thread and im gonna follow this cuz i might try something similar. are you adding any nutes to the soil?


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## Fractus (Jul 21, 2009)

Right now the lights are less than 2 inches from the leaves, but it really doesn't matter because I haven't raised them for quite some time and when I did it just raised to the lights and stopped there. So if I raise my lights (also considering the dynamics of my "glow-box" and the albedo of styofoam) the plant will grow up and out in all directions and then slow down when it reaches the lights again. The biggest it is going to get in there from what I've observed is the space that I give it. As far as Kelvins go, I think I want to invest in 2 more bulbs, but 4500K. So then I would have 3x6500s promoting leaf surface to increase my photosynthesis, and the 2x4500s which peak at the optimum part of the red range used in the chlorophyll, and also 3x2700s for even longer wavelengths. Really recreating the sun inside a box.


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## thatdjsnow (Jul 21, 2009)

Fractus said:


> Right now the lights are less than 2 inches from the leaves, but it really doesn't matter because I haven't raised them for quite some time and when I did it just raised to the lights and stopped there. So if I raise my lights (also considering the dynamics of my "glow-box" and the albedo of styofoam) the plant will grow up and out in all directions and then slow down when it reaches the lights again. The biggest it is going to get in there from what I've observed is the space that I give it. As far as Kelvins go, I think I want to invest in 2 more bulbs, but 4500K. So then I would have 3x6500s promoting leaf surface to increase my photosynthesis, and the 2x4500s which peak at the optimum part of the red range used in the chlorophyll, and also 3x2700s for even longer wavelengths. Really recreating the sun inside a box.


Sounds Pretty good. I can't Find any 6500k CFLs around my town... so all I've got is 4 5300k, 2 3500k, 2 2700k and another big 2700k... My grow has moved along quite nicely since we started talking on your thread Fractus, you should check out my journal! ;D

I'ma keep my fingers crossed for ya that ur plant turns out female! (hope mine do too lol, I'm going 12/12 in 3 days.)


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## sweet island skunk09 (Jul 22, 2009)

after the changes you made would the whole setup still be under 112?


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## Fractus (Jul 22, 2009)

sweet island skunk09 said:


> after the changes you made would the whole setup still be under 112?


To be honest I don't really know. I've made so many changes I wasn't keeping track. But now that I have it finished I could probably put a parts list here with approximate prices so you will know how much it costs start to finish to build one just like it. I'll post it in a little bit.


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## Closet Grow (BuD) (Jul 22, 2009)

I like your setup, very cost efficient especially for your growing goal... you propbably could use that same setup and grow a couple lowryders in there...im a cfl and low budget grower also so i like what you have done...considering making a box like yours as an early vegg room than have my current room be a flowering room...good job


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## Fractus (Jul 22, 2009)

Thanks dude! Here check it out, this is a list with rounded values of what it would probably to cost to build from nothing.

*Item (Quantity) = Approximate $ Value*
Styrofoam Cooler with cover (2) = $20
80mm 35cfm Computer fan (2) = $30 (You could use other less expensive fans that I'm sure would work just as well)
12v DC adapter for fans = $8
Light Bulbs (6) = $18
Light sockets (3) = $9
Socket Y-Splitters (3) = $9
Basic 24h On/Off Timer (1) = $8
Extension cords (3) = $6
Duct Tape (1) = $5
Thermometer/Humidity-meter (1) = $7
Activated Carbon (1) = $10
*Total = $150*

Yesterday I woke up and my room stunk like hell, so I made a new carbon filter. I built it out a 2litre milk carton, cut out the sides and put screening on the inside of it, taped all of the edges inside the carton. Then I took a longer strip of screen and rolled up the outside of the carton with it, taped around the bottom, filled up each compartment on all four sides of the carton with activated carbon. Taped the opening, and mounted it over my exhaust fan. Not a hint of any odour coming through it. All I paid for was the carbon, the screen was a busted one from a window  Here's a couple pics of the attached finished product:















Got the blanket draped over it in this pic. Keeps it nice and dark. 
Now for whoever's interested, a couple recent pics from INSIDE the box:
















Still too early to tell if it's a guy or a girl but the nodes are swelled up huge now compared to two days ago before changing the lights. I think it will have definitive genitals in 2 days time lol


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 22, 2009)

what a little bush fractus! def one of the best first time grows ive followed. i dont think ive seen your plant hurt once, and thats almost unheard of for new growers. i have to give you mad respect for sticking to your original design no matter what people said. and im just amazed how good your plant looks for being >20 days old


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## Fractus (Jul 22, 2009)

haha thanks dude! it seems like the secret is to starve the plant. I rarely fed it and only gave it very very small doses of that Miracle Gro shit simply because it is Miracle Gro. I couldn't find any Fox Farms stuff locally and didn't want to order over the internet. I never overwatered, I water once every two to three days just enough to soak my soil, wait for it to dry out almost all the way to the bottom, really forcing my roots to stretch and get every last bit of moisture and then soak them and it explodes 12 hours after watering every time. I'm pretty surprised at how quickly it grew up too. If it's a boy then I'll be flowering a new one in another 20-30 days anyway  And thanks again for stickin with me all along the way haha. I'll probably never stop growing for the rest of my life now though. It's fun as hell.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 22, 2009)

Fractus... what can I say...

Your plant looks real healthy...


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## Fractus (Jul 22, 2009)

Smells healthy too haha, but we both know it probably would't look half as pretty if you weren't a part of it. If confidentiality wasn't such an issue I'd mail you a taste lol


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## GypsyBush (Jul 22, 2009)

Thanks dude...

But you're the one doing it...

Have you started thinking about the next grow?

I would love to see you out of the $20 foam cooler and into a $50 tent...

I am still so afraid of a malfunctioning CFL melting the foam and starting a fire...

But... 

Your plant looks really good...


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## Fractus (Jul 22, 2009)

...but I love my cooler  lol. Someday I might do that but I don't think I need to try upgrading anymore for a while. I want to hang onto this setup until I move out of this apartment a few months down the road. I found something simple that works. Again I understand your concern, but I'm quite confident in my knowledge of electronics and I'm reallllly sure that thing won't set fire. I can't risk having a fire hazard here anymore than you can, but frankly my laptop is more likely to ignite the wooden desk it sits on than my styrofoam igniting from a CFL. Worst case scenario, something comes unplugged. Wood has a lower flash point than styrofoam you know  Sytrofoam just looks more intimidating than it really is lol. 

Someday I'll have a sick home-made fireproof mylar tent with temp control to the tenth of a degree, auto-watering systems when soil moisture drops below a certain point, and an automatic pH controller of some sort, and constant humidity, and dimmer lights on timers so it actually has seasons and mornings, noons, and evenings. And variable winds. All wired to a computer when you adjust the environment of the inside of the box to whatever you want, and fill a feeding reservoir with any premixed food you like and have it on a scheduled dose. And when I do this I will post it here, but that is my next project and I won't upgrade until I have it planned out to every detail. Expect it 6 months from now haha. Maybe I should mass-produce them and start my own company because it would be sick!! haha. Kinda running off on a tangent with this whole idea but that is my goal sooner or later. It won't be cheap either.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 22, 2009)

All it would take is a malfunctioning CFL ballast to overheat and melt the foam...

Water, electricity, foam... in a clutterd room/closet...

It worries me...

Not when everything is ok... but when something does go wrong... and it can...

But I'll shut up.. I know you do not want to hear t his...

sorry...


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## Fractus (Jul 22, 2009)

No worries dude. Listing possible hazards is helpful despite my reaction or argument to it. The only water near it is inside the soil and there is no wiring ever in contact with the bottom half of the box anymore. It's all up in the top. But I'm just making the point that if the ballast got hot enough to melt my styrofoam, it would also be hot enough to ignite a wooden cabinet. This is no more risky than anyone else's setup. Unless your box is made out of aluminum, you're just as likely to have a CFL set fire to any cabinet as my box. A common misperception about styrofoam is that it ignites and/or melts easily. You pretty much need an open flame to even phase it, which is just like any other building material aside from metal.. Also just to put your mind at ease, the ballast doesn't touch the styrofoam in my setup, the socket is built into the cover and the tip screws in as the ballast projects out from it. But could they really sell lightbulbs that can possibly just overheat and set fire?


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## GypsyBush (Jul 22, 2009)

have you ever seen anything that is 100% malfunction free?

and you can hold a bic lighter to a 2x4 much longer than you could to a piece of foam...


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## Fractus (Jul 22, 2009)

Have you ever heard of a house burning down because of a malfunctioning lightbulb?

Only because styrofoam is less dense. May take more exposure to the heat to ignite but it will also burn for 10x as long once you get it lit. You have to physically touch a flame to styrofoam to get it to ignite, if you only expose it to the heat it just melts away from it. Wood will stay in the same place and get hotter and hotter until it blackens and ignites 50 degrees prior to when styrofoam would. I would rather come home to see a hole melted through styrofoam than to a room full of wood smoke. For the sake of comparison, I've seen what an incandescent bulb can do to a wood wall from sitting too close and it wasn't pretty. The same bulb beside stryofoam will only make it melt and recede. Glad we aren't using those bulbs anymore. But I personally think you would be safer building your grow designs out of styrofoam than wood, but you gotta love the structural stability you get from wood. If I had tools I wouldn't be in styrofoam because it lets light escape and it's not as durable. This was cheaper than building a sweet ass wood box + buying all the tools.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 22, 2009)

ok... 





what can say?


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## Fractus (Jul 22, 2009)

Gypsy I would really like to see you step down from your 50$ tent to a 20$ stryro setup  You'll love it if you have one, and with your head you could probably come up with some wicked ideas that I didn't think of. Just by doing it right the first time you could make yours a lot more effective than mine. Like someone said before, I was the guinea pig haha.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 22, 2009)

sorry bro...

my op needs a little more space...


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## Fractus (Jul 22, 2009)

Holy fuck man! You're my hero. I would love to go that big someday haha. Sick light cooling setup. Anyway as of this post I now have a new goal in life lol. Maybe this is my purpose in the world! You have a better geographical location for it though I think, I'll be doing something like this when I get older and get my life established with a bitch and a job in a more remote location, I think some refer to this as "settling down".


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## GypsyBush (Jul 22, 2009)

All of my advice has been from my real life experience... not from reading it on the computer..

and on top of that.. I am an old fart who has done a lot of things in life.. most of them successfully...

But go with what you know bro...


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## Fractus (Jul 22, 2009)

You should have told me this sooner, that beats the fuck out of science any day. Maybe I should go back and read it all again, I bet it will all sink in a little farther this time lol. You seem like the kinda guy I would hang out with haha


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 22, 2009)

Fractus said:


> Holy fuck man! You're my hero. I would love to go that big someday haha. Sick light cooling setup. Anyway as of this post I now have a new goal in life lol. Maybe this is my purpose in the world! You have a better geographical location for it though I think, I'll be doing something like this when I get older and get my life established with a bitch and a job in a more remote location, I think some refer to this as "settling down".


he lives in AK. haha idk if we could say thats a better location. maybe alittle colder we can say hah.


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## Fractus (Jul 22, 2009)

A lot easier to get away with higher power bills because of the cold climate. And that's the last place anyone will ever look and it's worth a fortune lol.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 22, 2009)

I have only tried to help from day one... despite you thinking I wanted to make you look bad...

But everything I said was geared twds *great bud at a low price*... 

And you said you're not worried about that...

And as far as Ak goes... I pay 10x more for everything you guys can just go down to the store and buy.. and I gotta wait at least 2 weeks..

Even the milk I drink goes on 4 different planes just to get here..

Winters are really fucking cold...

And as for power... We generate our own power with diesel @ $14 a gallon...

No one knows how much we use... but then again I know how much it costs...

And still I get my bud for 1/4 of the price I could get it for...

AK or FL has nothing to do with how efficient or stealthy your set up is...

People do it RIGHT all over the world...

Like I said Fractus... the day you decide to get serious about the final product, I think I can help... maybe...


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## Fractus (Jul 22, 2009)

That's crazy dude, but what if an individual happened to be a pilot?(Hence the name stratus "fractus"  ) Wouldn't that make things easier? Anyway I'll keep that in the back of my head, if/when I go big I'll be in touch haha


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## GypsyBush (Jul 22, 2009)

Being a pilot in AK is like having a driver's license in the lower 48... can't get around without it...

And you don't have to go big to be efficient... 

You can get 1 gram per watt from as little as a 250HPS...


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## Fractus (Jul 22, 2009)

But big means I get more weed right?


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## GypsyBush (Jul 22, 2009)

I rather have efficient over big any day...

But yeah.. in theory... the more you grow, the more you get...


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## thatdjsnow (Jul 24, 2009)

Wow... That's some real shit. Nice grow bush - we should talk some time.

Gad to see that's all worked out now. 



Hey Fractus - you can definitely build a small box very cheaply - instead of using styrofoam.. I mean, I know you like what you have, and it is a cool experiement - but I saw you talking about how you'd like to use wood but it's expensive and takes up more space.

but really... it's not.... lol. You can easily build a box that fits in your closet, even up on a top shelf. If you made a frame with 1x2 and covered it with 1/4in paneling or OSB, it'd be light too... instead of using 1/2 or 5/8in plywood and no frame.

I got mine for free from my work..  ... but I could have easily built it $30 man... as log as ya have some access to power tools you're good.


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## Fractus (Jul 24, 2009)

But I don't have access to power tools right now. I'm not from here, this the apartment I stay at for school. But I've had all sorts of ideas since the styrofoam. Inside a tower speaker box for example. It's already built for you, depending on the model it may have intake and exhaust holes already there. I also considered one of those big green rubbermaid garbage cans with the lid. And I had half a dozen other ideas too. I see things I could use on a daily basis, it's like I'm always looking out for it now haha. But for what I'm doing, 20$ for a box that is already built was pretty sweet. All I had to do was stab some holes in styrofoam.


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 24, 2009)

its def how ideas come to be, next year people will be duplicating fractus's grow box once they realize how well it works


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 24, 2009)

Something to consider....some info. 

"Why is styrofoam recycling important? Polystyrene or styrofoam is manufactured from petroleum. As such, it is highly flammable and may not be safe to use as improvised wall insulation. It is illegal to burn styrofoam because this would release harmful chemicals to the atmosphere, notably benzene, a known human carcinogen used in the manufacturing process of polystyrene."

I would REALLY caution ANYONE on growing ANYTHING inside styrofoam.

Yes, very innovative. Very neat. 

But NOT practical OR safe over A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

The science just isn't on your side Fractus...

Build yourself a SMALL tent, insulate it with reflective material, vent it properly. You will be much better off.

And yes, one CFL can burn down a whole house. Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought, my mechanically inclined growing brother


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## SimplyBaked (Jul 24, 2009)

yo be careful homie...i said fuck the styro ill save that for my drank, and i just planted outside....cant risk burnin my pad down ...not downin you or nothin shid if it works for you then do it...i aint knockin you...but as for me....i cant even risk it...sun is always better anyways


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## Fractus (Jul 24, 2009)

> "Why is styrofoam recycling important? Polystyrene or styrofoam is manufactured from petroleum. As such, it is highly flammable and may not be safe to use as improvised wall insulation. It is illegal to burn styrofoam because this would release harmful chemicals to the atmosphere, notably benzene, a known human carcinogen used in the manufacturing process of polystyrene."


bigjesse, with all due respect, CFL's contain mercury, which is much more harmful than benzene or any other chemical that burning styrofoam would produce. I'm also not planning on lighting it on fire, just like I'm not planning on breaking any bulbs. I know "accidents can happen" but they all have a cause. If you use products safely then they do what they are supposed to. And as far as combustibility, I mentionned several times earlier the properties of styrofoam and how it ignites and at what temperatures. I bet I can find an equally hazardous aspect of whatever you use to grow as well. CFL's are designed to not get hot. And even if there was a malfunctioning bulb, that is equally as hazardous to anyone using whatever material because it's hot enough to ignite styrofoam at 350 degrees celcius then it's hot enough to set any other wood or plastic on fire as well. You just need to understand this and realize that my box is safe and it isn't just going to catch fire no matter how much you argue the flammability of styrofoam. Science is in fact in my favor which is why after a month my apartment is still intact. - my box is for growing a plant using light, it doesn't get hot no matter how you look at it. And an electrical spark won't even set fire to it. You need to have a direct flame on it for several seconds in one place for it to ignite. You know, polystyrene is actually an approved building material for it's resistance to heat, and actually has a significantly less flame spread than any wood. Only under optimum burning conditions is it hazardous. I made most of these points before though so I'm kinda repeating myself, I don't mean to be rude or anything. I just thought we were past this subject already. Also, most plastics are made out of petroleum, even the tires on your car. I'm trying to convert you, in case you haven't noticed  It's good shit, that's why it's so widely used.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 24, 2009)

With all due respect...you have a lot to learn...

Too much theory...not enough practical application...ahh, to be young again...

Fractus, good luck. You have a lot to learn.


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## pabloesqobar (Jul 24, 2009)

Nice bush Fractus. Just out of curiosity, anyone ever heard of a styrofoam cooler spontaneously combusting because of its proximity to a CFL? 

In any event, nice job.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 24, 2009)

pabloesqobar said:


> Nice bush Fractus. Just out of curiosity, anyone ever heard of a styrofoam cooler spontaneously combusting because of its proximity to a CFL?
> 
> In any event, nice job.


Have you ever heard of an electrical fire? Did I say anything about the proximity to a CFL?

I am not trying to be a hater...

But ONE MONTH is not a long term period of time to say the data shows its safe.


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## Fractus (Jul 24, 2009)

But common sense and electrical skills sure do come in handy. The reason I know it won't set fire is that there is no possible & sufficient source for heat. I would like to hear your theory as to what scenario would have to take place to make it set fire and also explain what makes using other materials any safer. Instead of just shooting down my reasoning with a statement like: 



> With all due respect...you have a lot to learn...
> 
> Too much theory...not enough practical application...ahh, to be young again...
> 
> Fractus, good luck. You have a lot to learn.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 24, 2009)

Fractus said:


> But common sense and electrical skills sure do come in handy. The reason I know it won't set fire is that there is no possible & sufficient source for heat. I would like to hear your theory as to what scenario would have to take place to make it set fire and also explain what makes using other materials any safer


No problem. 

First: how are your CFL'S connected to the cooler and how are they wired to receive power to light up?

I know you are repeating this...but humor me.


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## Fractus (Jul 24, 2009)

I drew a picture using the great "Paint" application to help show what I've done. Show me the hazard.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 24, 2009)

Ask a fireman.... he'll tell you..


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 24, 2009)

there tryin to ruffle you feathers again fractus

im behind you till this lights on fire, then ill be right there beside you with a fire extinguisher to put it out
JK

good luck man and your wireing is sound as far as im concerned. you ever see that thread it says something like "im an experenced electrition here to answer questions"? ask him how secure your set up is


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 24, 2009)

hey gypsy, off topic and i hate to thread jack but... i had that activity award yesterday and now its gone, my activity has been at 100% why did i lose it?


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 24, 2009)

Ok so say there is a short in the electrical cord. How thick is it? 

If it is just a STANDARD extention cord, then a short could VERY WELL create enough heat to melt through the wire and start dropping melting plastic on the styrofoam. How long do you think it would take it to burn? Eventually the fire would contact the styrofoam directly....

AND ITS PETROLUEM BASED. It WILL ignite and burn like the 4th o' July.

Is it GONNA happen? Probably not...is a baby gonna choke on a french fry? Not usually...BUT THEY STILL DON'T GET THEM TILL THEY GET THEIR MOLERS!


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 24, 2009)

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/181708-experienced-electrician-here-answer-any-54.html

the thread i was talking about. ask him how safe your set up is


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## Fractus (Jul 24, 2009)

Bigjesse, do you realize that the insulation of your wire is also "PETROLEUM BASED"???? Melting plastic would ignite wood faster than styrofoam, because the melting point of the plastic is higher than the flash point of wood. But the melting point of plastic is nearly identical to that of styrofoam because IT'S THE SAME THING. Styrofoam will melt away for a long time, but isn't physically able to ignite from melting plastic, it would have to be flaming plastic. If my extension cord spontaneously bursts into flames then there is something wrong with the world. You've turned this from criticizing styrofoam as a building material to the probability of an electrical phenomenon that would affect anybody equally. The question at hand isn't if my setup is electrically stable, we were debating the safeness of using styrofoam as opposed to other materials. And I've explained in every possible way that I can think of that styrofoam isn't any more susceptible to an electrical malfunction than any other build. They would all suffer equally unless it is made out of fire retardant material so that you could light napalm in it and have it not burn down. Of course the plant probably wouldn't survive :/ I've done my homework guys, have a little faith..


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 24, 2009)

LOL

Gypsy is smarter than me... I am wasting my time...

Good LuCk.


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## Fractus (Jul 24, 2009)

You're wasting your time arguing facts you didn't know before telling me it's not safe. I'm sure an electrician could point out a potential hazard with using my inexpensive 14 gauge extension cords or something but it would be a 1 in a million "it could happen" kinda thing. I'm not running a heavy load for a normal extension cord - maybe a tenth of its max capacity. I'm just sticking up for my box dude, you don't need to take it personally. But I'm not going to alter my setup based on pessimism alone, without a legitimate and factual hazard backing it up. I'm not going to start living in fear that extension cords that everyone uses every day of life are going to be take flame while I sleep because of a freak-accident. If I'm not exceeding ratings for products then if it burns it's not my fault, and the company who manufactured the faulty part is liable.


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## bigjesse1922 (Jul 24, 2009)

Like I said, good luck!

I don't take it personally....

I just know people like you...who know everything...

Your "facts" are mostly not facts at all. 1 in a million is a number you pulled out of your....well...you know.

My grandfather was a master electrician. My father is in trades. I have been around the stuff ALL my life, which, I would wager, has been quite longer in the making than yours...

I have seen a regular extension cord malfunction with nothing plugged into it at all....

Shit happens...like I said...I am done wasting my time about your box. You are married to it.

If you have other stuff you need help with, I will be hesitant to post as well, seems how THAT information is all based on my experiences and research, just as the same as everything else I just told you....and you have little use for that so....

Good LuCk!


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 24, 2009)

do you think theres a fire hazard in my room? i have a tv, cable box, ps3, a dvd player and a lamp all pluged into the same power strip, and atleast 2 of these are on at any point in the day, some times all of them. ive had them set up like this for 2 years. no problems yet

seriously, i think hes pissed because he keeps telling you its unsafe and you act stuborn abd have something to say to his every sugestion. dude if your happy with your box then keep on growing man, its obvious no one can change your mind. my only problem is that you could grow it to flower and then find out its a male. i would sugest, again, putting another seed in a small cup on top of the soil bed and starting growing a second/emergency plant. but you dont need to any one, not me or gypsy or big j. just you and your plant matters


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## Fractus (Jul 24, 2009)

Bigjesse, do you know why the Indian raindance always works? Because they don't stop dancing until it rains. We all know the dancing didn't make it rain. Sometimes knowledge is better than experience. 

One in a million is the only figure I've made up and it was an exaggeration to make a point, not to be taken literally. But all the other facts were. And somebody could have sued and got a lot of money because of that extension cord that malfunctioned (if not being misused).  I'm not questioning your experience either dude, it's just that if I follow the rules written on labels, I don't see how anything can go wrong, and if it does how would it be my fault? And it seems to me like you're telling me that your experience is worth more than the word of the company who puts the ratings on their products that tell me it's safe. I just learned a lot about the products I'm using and I feel secure with them because of it. Not because I'm in love with the box. I'm in love with it's contents, at least I was until today when I saw that it is showing what appears to be the early stages of male genitalia :S

Speaking of which, KaleoXxX that's the best advice I heard all day. Because if what I'm doing works then I'm most likely going to keep doing it regardless of what people say, and I think I'll start vegging a couple more in there as soon as I figure out what to do with this male. Let a few grow up until flower and then keep the best female (assuming there is one lol). I was told that you can extract oil from a male so I'm going to look into that for sure before throwing it away. How many do you suppose I should raise in there?


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 24, 2009)

sux about the suspicious balls that may be forming, i hope i didnt jinx you. i might put 1 plant in the soil like you have it already and another 1 on each side in small cups. or a total of 3 in cups if tou can get the right sized pots/cups to grow in. to fit in that box i think you could start like 5 in solo cups or fit 2-3 1 gal pots. in fact if you feel like taking advise, id start a few seeds germing tonight


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## Fractus (Jul 24, 2009)

Probably won't start anything tonight, I'll look after it tomorrow. I have a couple seedlings already started in beer cups, I may just transplant them. Do I need them in separate pots or could I just plant them all right in the box in my soil and eliminate the males later on if I need to?


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 24, 2009)

i wouldnt put them in 1 pot, i mean ive seen it work ONCE, where a guy had a big rubermaid container full of soil(he said he couldnt afford separate pots but someone pointed out that filling that whole thing with soil cost more than a few plastic pots) and he grew like 3 (or was it 4? 5?) plants from seed to harvest. but usually the plants roots will tangle up and they will kill each other over water and nutrents. ive also seen some one grow a few tall ponts in solo cups so nothing is impossible

but i would see how many 1 gal pots you can fit in there and grow that many plants


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## Fractus (Jul 24, 2009)

Why don't I put 2 dividers in mine giving it three sections that roots can't pass, and if any become male I pull them out along with their barrier and let the good ones expand?


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 24, 2009)

great logic, and im also happy to see your gonna keep doing what you want =-D.

id only do 3 dividers tops, maybe a 4th. and make sure the soil is deep. what are the dimensions of the bottom of the cooler again?


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## Fractus (Jul 24, 2009)

approx 1x2 feet in the bottom, tapers to get wider at the top where the cover fits, and then instead i have another identical cooler upsidedown on top as you know, so it tapers back in again where the lights are in the upper area, it all stands about 2.5 - 3 feet high.


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## pabloesqobar (Jul 24, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> Have you ever heard of an electrical fire? Did I say anything about the proximity to a CFL?
> 
> I am not trying to be a hater...
> 
> But ONE MONTH is not a long term period of time to say the data shows its safe.


So I guess that would be a "no'? You've never heard of it happening. Ever. Not Once?


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 24, 2009)

so either 2 dividers making room for 3 plants or you could put it like a "+" if you think you have room for 4


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## Fractus (Jul 24, 2009)

Haha that's so simple but I never would have though of making a "+"!! I can use two dividers and get 4 compartments, that's genius. I'll see what I have room for. Thanks again dude. I'll post some new pics of whatever I do tomorrow night probably.


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 24, 2009)

group think man, were smart individually but together we are a genius


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## Fractus (Jul 24, 2009)

Tomorrow will be a fresh start. This will be nice. When I started this plant I didn't know a damn thing. We'll see how these ones go.


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 24, 2009)

make sure you know its a male before you kill it now


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## Fractus (Jul 24, 2009)

Will do, that's why I'm not disturbing it's darkness tonight, in case tomorrow I decide it's dick looks like a calyx. It's only on day 3 of flowering. But it's growing wicked-fast, and definitely has genitals since 2 days ago. I doubt my phone will take good enough resolution to show you but I'll try it out tomorrow and show you the best pic I can get of it.


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 24, 2009)

males and females both have calyx s, balls and hairs are what your looking for. im sure you know this


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## Fractus (Jul 24, 2009)

Oh...are you sure? I was going by this picture and a couple others.


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 24, 2009)

damn stips is what i was meaning.
did i tell you how well my home made bong for the contest works

im baked enough to forget terms of the genitalia


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 24, 2009)

iv seen that picture so many damn times! i should get it put on something, maybe a tatoo


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## Fractus (Jul 24, 2009)

Haha it's a great pic, explains everything much simpler than words. Mine looks like the left half, its projecting more out sideways than up, and no hairs in sight. No sign of any trichomes anywhere either, although I don't know if I'm supposed to be able to see them or not yet lol. But anyway the way the things are growing they look like they are determined to be a hanging set of balls and not hairs, they are still very small though so I'm gonna give it a chance.


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## Fractus (Jul 25, 2009)

Couldn't get a good close-up of it with a cellphone :/ I called that one. The biggest 'organs' I see so far are sitting on the fourth node up I think. As you go up they get smaller. However, it seems like there are little growths sitting in the crotches of some of the upper branches too. I wasn't sure what to make of these.. They don't look like the reproductive parts in the lower nodes of the plant.


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 25, 2009)

o wow, im surprised how much that sucker has bushed out. it leads me to think that this is actually a one or two plant box, and i was giving it more room in my imagination.

i cant really tell much from those pictures, cuz you couldnt really get a close up, but if i focus real hard i think i can see the balls your talking about


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## Fractus (Jul 25, 2009)

I think I'll have 4 compartments and hope for 2 females and grow two plants in there (divided soil though) from start to finish. I took a few more pics from other angles with different lighting, hoping to get a better glance. The growths come out directly sideways in most cases. There is no more than one per side of each node so far, but they are just liitle ball-shaped things really, and give me the feeling they just wanna get bigger and not grow any pistils. Here take a look:




















If I put the camera any closer it goes out of focus. That's the best I can do until the things gets bigger so I can get a better picture of them.


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 25, 2009)

you could do 12/12 from seed and then reveg as soon as you see females or just keep them flowering after you weed out the males


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## Fractus (Jul 25, 2009)

Another good suggestion. So, it doesn't mess with their heads too much to reveg? I don't really know anything about that, it just seems a little unnatural for the plant. Like everyone is always telling me not to interrupt the 12h dark cycle ever, no lights or shit because it will make hermies. So if it's expecting another 12 hour darkness and the lights just stay on (or come on earlier), it won't screw it up? This is just a thought I had lol, this is not based on any factual information, I just connected the dots haha.


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 25, 2009)

ive never reveged myself, just read about it on this site, so i can only connect dots myself


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## Fractus (Jul 25, 2009)

Hmm. Yeah I've heard of it before too. I may look into it. First I'm gonna give it another day or two before I cut the cord on this one. Just to be sure  If there's one mistake that trumps all the newbie mistakes it would be throwing out a female plant haha.


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 25, 2009)

ya that would be the worst


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 26, 2009)

so why do 12/12 from seed? im pretty sure that all seeds need to go thru a veg stage no matter how much light they are getting. once they are sexually matured is when you see preflowers in plants in veg. if you do straight 12/12 the plant will still grow for a month or so until it reachs maturity and then will flower.


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## Old Coot (Jul 26, 2009)

littlegrower2004 said:


> so why do 12/12 from seed? im pretty sure that all seeds need to go thru a veg stage no matter how much light they are getting. once they are sexually matured is when you see preflowers in plants in veg. if you do straight 12/12 the plant will still grow for a month or so until it reachs maturity and then will flower.


12/12 from seed lets you show sex in about four weeks time from my recent experience. Most people veg a month then take an additional two to three weeks to determine sex after flipping the lights. This way you cull the males early and only devote time and energy to plants that will yield some smoke. Your plants are not really mature enough at this point ot hazard a pollination since males usually show first and are usually the fastest growers and frequently turn out to be the plant you thought most vigorous and were hoping was a girl. So the males get tossed before the girls show...and you move the girls back to veg and fill out a couple weeks. Then when you flip the lights back 12/12....they practically jump into flower immediately. 

During the veg time you pot up only plants you know you want to flower instead of all of them needlessly. Of course if you are hydro...different game but even more important....why veg anything you are paying for expensive nutes to grow in and then throw it out.
Soil is cheap by comparison as are most organic solutions.


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## Fractus (Jul 26, 2009)

I chose to go 19/5 for my entire veg and my plant is less than a month old, switched to 12/12 a few days ago and it's showing preflowers. It didn't take long enough for me to get to this stage for me to worry about early sexing. And my soil was cheap as hell haha. I can see how this method would benefit a lot of people but I probably won't worry about it. I'll just grow 4 plants from seed under 18/6 or 19/5 again and then toss whatever males I end up with when I flower.


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 26, 2009)

your still gonna want to flower early, just imagine 4 bushes like this one in your little box


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## Fractus (Jul 26, 2009)

yeah shit good point. The most I could fit in there is 2 if they get like this one. Maybe I'll do 2 but keep a few seedlings growing in another location so I can transplant them in if both of mine end up males. And if I get 1 or 2 females I'll make sure they fill the box lol.


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 26, 2009)

Old Coot said:


> 12/12 from seed lets you show sex in about four weeks time from my recent experience. Most people veg a month then take an additional two to three weeks to determine sex after flipping the lights. This way you cull the males early and only devote time and energy to plants that will yield some smoke. Your plants are not really mature enough at this point ot hazard a pollination since males usually show first and are usually the fastest growers and frequently turn out to be the plant you thought most vigorous and were hoping was a girl. So the males get tossed before the girls show...and you move the girls back to veg and fill out a couple weeks. Then when you flip the lights back 12/12....they practically jump into flower immediately.
> 
> During the veg time you pot up only plants you know you want to flower instead of all of them needlessly. Of course if you are hydro...different game but even more important....why veg anything you are paying for expensive nutes to grow in and then throw it out.
> Soil is cheap by comparison as are most organic solutions.


ok i just said that they take a month(four weeks) to show sex. if you veg most any strain for about a month mayb a week before or after then you will c preflowers. that means the sex is already determined and this will happen either in 12/12 or 18/6 or 24/0. when ppl then switch over from veg to flower it does not take 2 weeks for the sex to be determined if the plants already have preflowers. which has to happen to any mj plants before they can flower. sexual maturity!

fractus- i say if you want 3 to 4 females at once all being small plants to fit in your box then you need to find a fem then clone her and start all new fresh fem clones in your box which can b flowered straight from being rooted. other wise if you have multiple plants in there growing to sexual maturity your gona see alot worse results and smaller less healthy plants. yours is doing so well now cause of its room that it has to grow and all of the available light is going to that single plant. adding more will take away from the others and make each plant less gerthy and vigourous. unless you plan on adding more light..


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## Fractus (Jul 26, 2009)

That's a good point. I'm thinking about rearranging my bulb configuration soon actually, And this plant is growing healthy with all of it's space. But the box is a perfect 2:1 rectangle. So my round bushy plant can only use half of it unless it wants to get wider it one direction than the other. So far it's showing that it isn't growing out anymore, its just keeping its width and bushiness, and getting taller and fuller without spreading wider. So this leads me to believe that I can comfotably divide the box in half to make two square compartments and have a plant in each - I'm probably going to add another bulb or two, I have a design in my head, I'm just hesitating to make a final verdict on my current plant.


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## fisch28 (Jul 27, 2009)

dang...that turned out real nice. could i do this same thing just using some cardboard boxes instead of the styrofoam coolers??


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## Fractus (Jul 27, 2009)

Cardboard is pretty a little riskier than styrofoam, for a few reasons really. It will light on fire quicker if you get it too hot, and you get less structural support. My styrofoam seems to hold together very well. Plus it's not waterproof lol. I wouldn't go there if I were you. I'm actually redesigning as we speak. I chopped down my old plant, its' 100% male. I rearranged my lights, got some fresh soil and perlite and divided in half, about to transplant a couple seedlings into it now and get them started. Hoping for a female this time. By the way you guys wouldn't believe the root system my plant had. I lifted up the entire stryofoam box, dirt and all, holding it by the stem of the plant alone. It supported all of the weight just with the roots. I was impressed.


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## SimplyBaked (Jul 27, 2009)

nice...but that SUX that it turnd out Male....all that time...


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## Fractus (Jul 27, 2009)

Ok so here is what I just finished doing.





Remodelled carbon filter, the other one was too high maintenance and kept falling apart because it was 50% duct tape lol.





New light configuration. This may create too much heat so I'm watching the temperature right now to see how high it goes. Probably going to take a couple bulbs out, purely experimental.





New seedlings I had in another pot just getting window sunlight. Same strain/seeds as the last one. Hope they go crazy


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 27, 2009)

lookin forward to seeing 2 girls.

def enough light. looks like a mixed spectrum

unless the cooler contributes, the cooler suouldnt get too hot


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## Fractus (Jul 27, 2009)

You called it. three 6500k, two 3000k, two 3500k. It's getting to warm though, just broke 35 celcius I'm not gonna let it go any higher so I swapped over to just 4 bulbs. Kept my 6500s and left a 3500 as well. My fan isn't powerful enough to cool that many bulbs. I had that feeling before i tried it.


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 27, 2009)

celsius? what are you english! oh just read your location, didnt know you were canadian....
whats that Fahrenheit?


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 27, 2009)

4 6500k should be good. swap em out for the lower "k", maybe 1 6500k, in flowering


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## Fractus (Jul 27, 2009)

Yeah for sure. And yup, Canadian and proud haha. And your answer is 35 divided by 5 multiplied by 9 plus 32 = 95.. So way too damn hot. Lol.


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 27, 2009)

ya 90+ is too hot


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 27, 2009)

did you trash the male? 
check this-
https://www.rollitup.org/toke-n-talk/219857-smoking-male-experiment.html


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## NCkush (Jul 28, 2009)

what is that diagram made out of? on page 11? 
what can that be made out of?


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 28, 2009)

if you cant find something tubular like that ill bet it could be made with a wood frame and a "tent" of mylar


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## Fractus (Jul 28, 2009)

> what is that diagram made out of? on page 11?
> what can that be made out of?


That would be what the side view of my box looked like if you were to cut it in half lol. It is made out of styrofoam, you could probably make it out of just about anything if you get creative. Giant rubbermaid containers would probably work equally as well but might cost you a bit more, I'm not sure. Or like KaleoXxX suggested you could also build yourself something from nothing if you have the tools.


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 28, 2009)

fractus- sorry to hear bout the male. but it happens to the best of us. those new sprouts look alot healthier than the last one so hopefully they really pick up here in the next few days. looks like your lights are way too high again tho so u might wanna pimp out the top of the last box again and just use one for the time being. once they grow bigger then double it up like you have it now.


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## Fractus (Jul 28, 2009)

The lights are sitting probably 5 inches away from the tops of the plants right now, and I'm only using the four bulbs at the moment. In the last 12 hours there is a new set of leaves that wasn't there before. I think it will be ok, I'd kinda like to just leave it a lone for a while haha I've done so much rearranging it's getting monotonous, and I think this will work actually.


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## Fractus (Jul 28, 2009)

Guys holy hell! I have my old plant still, just chopped off at the truck. The bottom of it is like wood. But anyway after what KaleoXxX posted there about the guy smoking the male, I tried it. I'm high as a damn kite! I know what high is and I'm no lightweight, but I'm tellin ya i got like 3/4 of the high I would have from straight bud, I swear. I picked the top part of the plant where bunches of new leaf development was starting before i killed it. Had little balls in and around it too (but the bigger ones are a few nodes down), still green and wet. I tossed it in the vaporiser for like 15 minutes and smoked that for a bit while cooking and drying it out. Didn't really feel anything yet but I could taste the THC in it. You all know what I'm mean if you ever used one before. It tasted RIGHT. Anyway Then I shut off the vaporiser and let it cool down, took the dried shit and loaded a bong with it, DIRTY-ASS smoke, tasted terrible. Like chlorophyll lol. But regardless, within no more than 5 minutes after, I was stoned. I'm still stoned. But like a whole body stoned, not like lazy-zoned-out stoned, you know? It's great!! Now I'm excited because I know I can smoke this for at least a week and feel great haha, and 2 more in the oven  Hoping one of the next ones is female though because I'm sure it'll be much better than this.


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## r2fs (Jul 28, 2009)

Fractus said:


> Guys holy hell! I have my old plant still, just chopped off at the truck. The bottom of it is like wood. But anyway after what KaleoXxX posted there about the guy smoking the male, I tried it. I'm high as a damn kite! I know what high is and I'm no lightweight, but I'm tellin ya i got like 3/4 of the high I would have from straight bud, I swear. I picked the top part of the plant where bunches of new leaf development was starting before i killed it. Had little balls in and around it too (but the bigger ones are a few nodes down), still green and wet. I tossed it in the vaporiser for like 15 minutes and smoked that for a bit while cooking and drying it out. Didn't really feel anything yet but I could taste the THC in it. You all know what I'm mean if you ever used one before. It tasted RIGHT. Anyway Then I shut off the vaporiser and let it cool down, took the dried shit and loaded a bong with it, DIRTY-ASS smoke, tasted terrible. Like chlorophyll lol. But regardless, within no more than 5 minutes after, I was stoned. I'm still stoned. But like a whole body stoned, not like lazy-zoned-out stoned, you know? It's great!! Now I'm excited because I know I can smoke this for at least a week and feel great haha, and 2 more in the oven  Hoping one of the next ones is female though because I'm sure it'll be much better than this.


Hi Fructus, ive been folowing your thread since you started posting with interest, sorry your 1st plant was male by the way.
are you sure that there wasnt any old bud or resin left in your vapouriser as i was under the impression there was NO thc in males?


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## Fractus (Jul 29, 2009)

They definitely still have it. I let some dry out in direct sunlight through a window for a while and then rolled a joint with it later in the day. It still worked.. But it's a very strange taste lol, not very pleasant to be honest but it's bearable if you're desperate for a fix. I may attempt to extract oil from the rest of it tomorrow. See how much I can get out of it.


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## FoxDarkness (Jul 29, 2009)

Fractus said:


> They definitely still have it. I let some dry out in direct sunlight through a window for a while and then rolled a joint with it later in the day. It still worked.. But it's a very strange taste lol, not very pleasant to be honest but it's bearable if you're desperate for a fix. I may attempt to extract oil from the rest of it tomorrow. See how much I can get out of it.


and you say your not a lightweight ? then i hate to tell you this but you have been out of real bud long enough to get the lightweight of the fuckin g year award man 
there is not only 85% less thc in a male plant but yours wasnt even full grown i mean no offence but are you like a 13 yr old in his moms house ? 
cause the only ppl i know that would get high offa a male are kids 
and to be honest if u wanted to try and get high offa it you would have been better off eating it as cannabis is stronger if u ingest it 

also on a side note first u ripped it out and trashed it then u found it then u tell the last dude u were drying it to begin with ? 
you sound like your fulla shit to me and i agree with gypsy your not worth the time or effort 

morons make me wanna puke


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## r2fs (Jul 29, 2009)

Male Marijuana plants do in fact grow THC. The Male flowers contain THC, but a much smaller amount than the Female flowers. Male plants also produce THC on their leaves, but again, it is a much lower content than from Female leaves. 

Male plants are rarely harvested as the flowers have a low THC content. Female plants can have as much as 20% THC content on the flowers, while Male may only grow as much as 3% THC content on the flowers. From personal experience, I have harvested a 3 month male marijuana plant, and made cannabutter from all the leaves and flowers. The end result was very disappointing; it wasn't even strong enough to give a high.


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## Fractus (Jul 29, 2009)

> and you say your not a lightweight ? then i hate to tell you this but you have been out of real bud long enough to get the lightweight of the fuckin g year award man
> there is not only 85% less thc in a male plant but yours wasnt even full grown i mean no offence but are you like a 13 yr old in his moms house ?
> cause the only ppl i know that would get high offa a male are kids
> and to be honest if u wanted to try and get high offa it you would have been better off eating it as cannabis is stronger if u ingest it
> ...


Take it somewhere else dude I don't want your shit in my thread. Go read some more and then come back. I smoke anywhere from 2-5 grams of M39 daily because I'm good friends with several dealers and that's what's most common around here, it falls into my hands like it's worthless. I'm very familiar with it's effects, but yesterday my first bake of the day was my male and it worked, I really don't care what you say or think about that. And where the hell do you get off making shit up like saying that I said "I trashed it"?? I never said I threw it out. I've had it hanging since i cut it down. Nice try though. Don't come back.




> morons make me wanna puke


Agreed


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 29, 2009)

fractus- im sorry to gang up on you on this one too but if you smoked a male that just switched over into flower than it would hvae hardly any THC in it. the most THC found on a male plant is on the pollen sacs that open up late in flower for the males. im pretty sure yours didnt get to nearly reach this point therefore having a very tiny amount of THC running through it. if you got noticeably high off of it then you do SOUND like a complete lightweight no matter how much you say you smoke daily. i cant b the judge cause im not personally there watching you everyday but like i said, it SOUNDS like your a lightweight. your plant probably had less than 3% THC in it and if that can get you high than i dont kno whats going to happen when you hit some real dank. you might take off and fly away like in half baked hahahha.


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 29, 2009)

FoxDarkness said:


> and you say your not a lightweight ? then i hate to tell you this but you have been out of real bud long enough to get the lightweight of the fuckin g year award man
> there is not only 85% less thc in a male plant but yours wasnt even full grown i mean no offence but are you like a 13 yr old in his moms house ?
> cause the only ppl i know that would get high offa a male are kids
> and to be honest if u wanted to try and get high offa it you would have been better off eating it as cannabis is stronger if u ingest it
> ...


why dont you try it before you bash someone for it man

i read this post saying this guy was doing an experiment and wanted to smoke his male plant. i heard my bud fractus was unlucky enough to get him self a male. so i linked it for him and he tried it, no big deal! he caught a little buzz, how you gonna bash him for making the best of the situation?

and this guy signs up just to be a prick on the subject! 

the one time i was unlucky enough to have to smoke male leafs we smoked a joint of it and it was terible. so we bought a 20bag of mids and rolled fat ass blunts of the mids and leafs all day long

how are the new babies coming out man?


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## husalife (Jul 29, 2009)

I make great balls of hash from my male plants, and get blazed. they can get you high!!


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## Fractus (Jul 29, 2009)

> I make great balls of hash from my male plants, and get blazed. they can get you high!!


THANK YOU haha. Even though I haven't made any oil just yet, I'm still letting my plant dry. I just needed someone to vouche for the fact that it can be done. The stoned I get from it is like an oil high. Like I decribed before, not-lazy-good-mood-body-stoned. It's quite enjoyable if you don't mind the flavor haha. But it's not to the extent that you can twist yourself on good budds. I admit that. I've had my share of ridiculous smoke sessions. A lottle off topic here, but one time we rolled & smoked a foot long 15gram blunt, me and three buddies closed ourselves in the shower room, vent turned off, shower on hot, steaming the place to hell. Maybe some of you have heard of this "Jamaican Shower" before but I'll tell you this, after 15 minutes on that thing in that room nobody wanted to be in there anymore lol. We were laying on the floor to get more air haha.. Good times.




> how are the new babies coming out man?


 






It's still adjusting to the new environment I think, but you can see the new leaves in the tops are darker green than the rest so it's on the right path


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 29, 2009)

looks nice man. ive never heard of a Jamaican shower, but ive smoke a few blunts bigger than a half o and ive fishbowled my share of bathrooms. i can imagine it would be intense


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## FoxDarkness (Jul 29, 2009)

nope i bashed him because unlike you i have read this entire thread and am sick of his bullshit  
and he is a lightweight and i bashed him for that and talking shit 
as for making the best i told him to have made the best he should have ATE THE FUCKING THING  
you like he aare of the moron class and frankly not worth my time but i will educate your stupid asses as i fucking see fit 
dont like it ? 
call the fucking cops  
or tell your moms 
because they are the only ones who are gonna give a fuck and as for u having a jamacian shower you do realise thats not a black man taking a piss on you and your mom in the bath right ?

just checking 
stupid ppl man 
they really make ya laugh


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## r2fs (Jul 29, 2009)

Fructus i though your male had only just started the flowering stage? So the pollen sacs dont start to form on a few days of flowering? Did you have sacs to open or what?
Jamacan shower...ooh...erm...misses...lol if i hadent have read your description id have thought that was similar to a golden shower lol


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## Fractus (Jul 29, 2009)

FoxDarkness said:


> and im female which means a few things
> 
> a im a bitch not a prick
> and b im fucking smarter then u on your best day by fucking default because i dont think with my 2 inch cawk


Oh, that explains it. I might take you seriously if you go back to typing class.


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## husalife (Jul 29, 2009)

Update pics lets see how they are doin!


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## Fractus (Jul 29, 2009)

my pic in post #297 was taken 3 hours ago haha. They haven't grown much but this is only after 40 hours in the box.


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## KaleoXxX (Jul 30, 2009)

FoxDarkness said:


> nope i bashed him because unlike you i have read this entire thread and am sick of his bullshit
> and he is a lightweight and i bashed him for that and talking shit
> as for making the best i told him to have made the best he should have ATE THE FUCKING THING
> you like he aare of the moron class and frankly not worth my time but i will educate your stupid asses as i fucking see fit
> ...


listen alright, if you want to start a problem you can, or you can just take your negativity and post somewhere else, i dont want to hear it

you think you read this entire thread? you didnt see me commenting the whole time? you think im a moron? did you read any thing ive posted ever? obviously not, because you know theres nothing you can school me in

im sick of your bull shit


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## fdd2blk (Jul 30, 2009)

infractions are being dealt.


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## MaD420MaN (Jul 30, 2009)

Looks like things are going good so far for you. Good luck


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## husalife (Jul 30, 2009)

how deep is soil in there? 
I was thinking why not pot the plant in a 1/2 gallon pot or so, 
then cut out a whole in the bottom of the cooler and set on top of pot
strap it on there or somethin to keep it sturdy.
Then plant could grow a little taller.
Cooler would house top portion of plant and lights and pot would have root.
You could even make a mini bubble bucket to put under there and be completley hydro.
and small.
Forgive me though, im high and bored lol this could all be useless bs


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## Fractus (Jul 30, 2009)

Actually it's a great suggestion. But it's gonna take a bit of planning and lots of reading on hydroponics before I start something like that. Maybe I'll do that with my next plant(s), but for now I think I'll not disturb these ones anymore than necessary.


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## GypsyBush (Jul 30, 2009)

this is a great thread to read up on Fractus...

https://www.rollitup.org/cfl-growing/89440-micro-ebb-flow-now-dwc.html


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## GypsyBush (Jul 30, 2009)

fdd2blk said:


> infractions are being dealt.



woot woot


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## Fractus (Jul 30, 2009)

That thread is awesome. He did an awesome job. If I were going for hydro I would probably copy him lol.


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## fisch28 (Aug 1, 2009)

Hey fractus after following your little set up here I decided to do something similar for my first grow. I was wondering though what all you got to get those lights on. I saw in your nice diagram how you got the y splitter and I found those I just don't kno whar to buy to connect the splitter into a power supply?thanks


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## Fractus (Aug 1, 2009)

If you go back and look in my diagram, look at the component labelled "1". That is what connects the socket to the power supply. Just a small part worth $2 to $4 depending where you buy it.


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## fisch28 (Aug 3, 2009)

Fractus said:


> If you go back and look in my diagram, look at the component labelled "1". That is what connects the socket to the power supply. Just a small part worth $2 to $4 depending where you buy it.


ok thanks. and your new project now....you kept all the same supplies just made it two little girls?? and everythings going fine?


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## Fractus (Aug 4, 2009)

Yeah everything is fine so far. Here's a pic from today.





The one on the right is a bit fuller and shorter, some of their original leaves died and fell off after transplanting, it happened with the last one too. Seems like when they go into the warmer and brighter environment they have to adjust to it. The new leaves come out dark green and healthy but the existing light green leaves seem to go downhill and die. Anyway they are looking healthy now, running 18/6 watering every second day. No issues so far.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

when are you gonna chop them?


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## Fractus (Aug 4, 2009)

Do I need to? I didn't chop my last one at all and it filled out the box quite nicely I thought... What do you advise?


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

Naw... I just figured you'd be smoking them pretty soon...

Just do your thing... they look nice and healthy...


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## Fractus (Aug 4, 2009)

oh lol. Good one. I thought by chopping you meant topping to make them grow a bunch more, but you just meant chopping it down and smoking it lmao.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

Sorry bro... 

I couldn't resist...

But they are looking good...


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## Fractus (Aug 4, 2009)

Haha... Cheers


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## fisch28 (Aug 5, 2009)

Nice..looks good. Hope Ican achieve this


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## fisch28 (Aug 5, 2009)

Any creative ideas how I could do a similar setup but hydro? I already bought a small pump and GH nutes and would hate to waste em.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 5, 2009)

Here's one of my plants that could fit in your box...







This one would prolly fit too, with the higher top...

She's 10" from the pot up...


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## r2fs (Aug 6, 2009)

Nice plant Gypsy


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## SimplyBaked (Aug 6, 2009)

very nice plants indeed!


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## GypsyBush (Aug 8, 2009)

Fractus...Bro!

where did you go?

How's the op?

Hope all is well...


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## Fractus (Aug 9, 2009)

Dude it's been a rough week lol, I'm actually not home to look after my plants right now I've got someone watering them every two days while I'm away. I'll be back soon to give you an update with frsh pics haha. Sorry for the delay. I hope all is well too!!


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## sweet island skunk09 (Aug 10, 2009)

i think soon im going to start my grow-box. with your setup if u taped around it like u said, would a lot of light still escape from the vents?


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## KaleoXxX (Aug 10, 2009)

you could spray pant it black.....

so your breaking the #1 rule huh fractus? well good luck with that


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## kapzanass1 (Aug 10, 2009)

NICE BRO>>> VERY NICE... i only hope to one day truly grasp the greatness.. hahahahahaha


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## SimplyBaked (Aug 10, 2009)

....that sux


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## Fractus (Aug 10, 2009)

It's my brother who I live with that is watching over them for me and he's been smokin' a lot longer than I have so I trust him to do it properly lol. No worries. I'm in contact with him everyday tooand he says they are looking great. I'm excited to get back and see them, they must be so much bigger now!


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## Fractus (Aug 12, 2009)

Boys guess what, Update from the extra-terrestrial glowing box! I got home and looked inside and my first reaction was HOLY SHIT It's been 8 days since the last picture I posted. I have one female and one male, preflowers showing. Have a look!







Male:










Nothing here but stips and ball-like growths

Girl:










One of her branches - In the centre of the pic that kinda blurred, out-of-focus squiggly line is 2 long hairs. They are all over the plant. I'm going to kill the male and replace the soil and shift this female over to the center of the box and let her expand. Also it's still on 18/6 right now. I should probably switch to 12/12 now shouldn't I? I know she wants it.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 12, 2009)

Looks real nice Fractus...

Bummer about the male.. or is it?

Maybe you should grow both and get your own seeds...

They both look real healthy...

And I say you're right in thinking about flowering.. they will more than double in size... 

Looking Good ...


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## husalife (Aug 13, 2009)

Wooooo Hoooooo Thems Purty. I cant wait to see this turn out. Good job bro.


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## Fractus (Aug 13, 2009)

Now the plant is centered in the box, i just tossed the male this time instead of trying to use it again lol. Also on 12/12 now and as you can see the lights were all changed to 3000K - 3500K


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## 420OldSchoolDJ420 (Aug 13, 2009)

I would have bread the 2 plants and got more seeds.


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## Fractus (Aug 13, 2009)

Yeah I really considered but I think I need the room (both above the soil and below it) so I really only wanted to grow one. And didn't wanna accidentally ruin the whole plant. Instead I was thinking about just cloning her..?


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## GypsyBush (Aug 13, 2009)

if you're gonna clone her I recommend you do it soon...

It can take a long time to re-veg, depending on how far it goes before cutting...


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## bigbudjohn420 (Aug 13, 2009)

well to tell you the truth i have made a singel plant grow box ... you should just build a PC planter you can grow 2 in there and as the lighting goes use a power strip at the top of the PC tower on the inside on the back wall and use light bulb adapters for lights you can fit 4 100w CFls in it ... use 2 PC fans for venting have one blowing in and one blowing out all you have to do is wire them up to an ols cell phone charger or any 12V power supply and then line it with mylar and then you have a simpel singel plant or 2 plant setup


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## Fractus (Aug 13, 2009)

Actually john that's exactly what I did already except my box is bigger than a cpu case and I didn't need to line it, and i have passive vents and 2 in-line exhaust fans (computer fans wired with a 12v adapter) in front of a carbon filter. But thanks for the help anyway dude

I'd like to clone soon but I don't have any rooting gel on hand though lol, how far do I have to look to find it? or is there any other simple alternative? Can it be done without using any sort of gel?

I also have a friend who is growing medically and legally, who will provide me with clones whenever I need them, don't know what the strain it is or anything though. He probably does.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 13, 2009)

you can clone without anything...

Just CUT (not smash and tear) with a SHARP, at a 45* angle and gently scrape some of the outer layer of "green" at the bottom of the stem...

Put it in dirt.. put a clear cup or dome over it and it should root


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## Fractus (Aug 13, 2009)

Awesome, should I wait until my plant's 'morning' to do it? And I think I'm supposed to cut just below a node on one of the branches near the main stem, please correct me if I'm wrong, I wanna make sure I do it right lol. I'm reading up on it a bit right now, just want some comparitive experienced opinions


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## bigbudjohn420 (Aug 13, 2009)

how i did not know you could root with takeroot i am sorry dude i posted and i did not see how far the posts where


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## Fractus (Aug 13, 2009)

No worries man, this thread has been going for quite a while, you'd be reading all day trying to catch up. It's pretty much my grow journal, when really it was intended to be a newbie thread looking for some starters tips. I got a lot more feedback than I expected, it's great.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 13, 2009)

just make sure you have nodes above where you cut...

You need a spot for new branches to grow out of...

I'm surprised you haven't tried to clone a leaf yet...

It's bee a while since someone did one of those...


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## Fractus (Aug 14, 2009)

Haha.. Ass. Thanks though. I'll probably take 2 off of it tomorrow. Can I just plant them and leave them beside my plant under the 12/12? I'm not planning on making a separate clone box unless I don't have a choice lol.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 14, 2009)

they will yield more if you leave them in the plant as branches than if you flower them as clones without roots...

and why am I an ass?


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## Fractus (Aug 14, 2009)

> and why am I an ass?





> I'm surprised you haven't tried to clone a leaf yet...


Wasn't that a poke at me for being a n00b? lol. I'm pretty sure you can't do that, but if you can then I'll be dipped in shit and rolled in breadcrumbs!
 And that makes perfect sense! Maybe I shouldn't bother cloning, i'll just get those clones I mentionned from that other guy I know and not worrry about trying to reproduce my own just yet. I really don't care as long as there's always "one in the oven" lol.


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## southwestgrower (Aug 14, 2009)

DAMN i ALMOST READ THIS HOLD THREAD. I AM VERY INSPIRED BY YOUR GROW(S). I WILL BUILDING A REPLICA OF YOUR STYROFOAM GROWBOX. I WANT TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT TYPE OF SEEDS YOU HAD


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## bigbudjohn420 (Aug 14, 2009)

yeah i am thinking of doing the same thing but instead of using a cooler i am will be used 2 large rubbermaid tubs..CLF can your plants more short and bushy.. at least every time i have grown and i used bagseed


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## Fractus (Aug 14, 2009)

Dude I have no idea what type of seeds they were. They were given to me and said they were what he was prescribed by the hospital as medicinal marijuana and he gave me some seeds. But it looks very indicaish. grows nice and wide & bushy with it's fat lil leaves  As Gypsy stated before, if you don't know what it is for sure then consider it bagseed of unknown origin. You have no idea where it actually came from lol. 

Rubbermaid tubs were my other option. They are pretty much just as good perhaps better. Except that mine is so ridiculously white and reflective that it just doubles the light I put in the box.. But solid plastic is definitely a more rigid building material than syrofoam. Mine can only suspend a certain amount of weight in terms of lights. I'm comfortable with 4 x 23w CFLs though. It holds them up just fine.


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## redivider (Aug 15, 2009)

hey I finished my box yesterday, what type of cooling are you using? i bought a 4" fan from walmart yesterday, but it burnt out pushing the air through the carbon .... I think it just burnt out where the plug is, so if I connect it directly to the fan motor it might work...... any ideas?? how's the CPU fan working with the carbon?? now I just have the big gaping 4" hole on the top doing passive ventilation, it seems to be working but a lot of light is also escaping..... :S


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## Fractus (Aug 15, 2009)

I'm using two 80mm computer fans rated at 35ish CFM i think, in-line exhaust fans with passive intakes. And a carbon filter on the outside of my exhaust covering my fans. It slows down the air a bit but not a lot, not overstressing my fans. I'm just running the exhaust air through a cereal box full of carbon pellets for a fish tank or w/e. I need more details about how you set up your ventilation for me to help ya though, maybe your carbon filter is at fault for killing your fan. Killing a fan in a day isn't common lol. I wouldn't mess around too much with the direct wiring of it, unless you're good at it and know what you're doing. Personally I'd take it back and trade for a new one, gotta love Walmart's return policy.


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## redivider (Aug 15, 2009)

i think I just over stressed the fan, i was pushing through 2 layers of carbon sheets, i put two to make it more light-proof, ended up burnin that shit...

goin to walmart today to change it... i woke up today at 6 to start the light cycle, turned it on, went back to sleep, woke up to take my dog out and the fan was off and it was like 100 degrees inside my box!!! one of my plants even started w temp burns :......


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## redivider (Aug 15, 2009)

oh and my fan says it's 3vdc, i had it running on batt's but will my chager, 12vdc 500 amps do the trick??? just wonderin...


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## QueenKush DaBoss (Aug 15, 2009)

It just depends what kind of bulbs you are using because I had a cfl that got hotter than a mofo and I also had some that were more of a bluish color that gave off no heat.


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## DrZ (Aug 15, 2009)

The only problem I see with your set up is that your intake fan is in a god spot however your Ex. need to be on the upper side of your box .... Heat rises therefor you want your fan taken ar out to take out hot air if you mount it on the bottom you will be pulling out your cool air maken your box hotter instead of cooler only thing i see a problem with good luck!!!


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## redivider (Aug 15, 2009)

my box is small, sort of like the one Fractus has, and I got two 42watt soft whites, and 2 19 watt daylights going in there.... i started 12/12 already, once each reached the 5th node.... i don't have enough space in my apt for a big plant, and I don't want to keep buying lights.... it's my first grow so i'm learnin as I go.... kinda pissed bout the fan though....


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## Fractus (Aug 15, 2009)

> oh and my fan says it's 3vdc, i had it running on batt's but will my chager, 12vdc 500 amps do the trick??? just wonderin...


You're going to want a more powerful fan, not battery operated. Something running on at least 12volts, and if you try to run 12volts to your 3v fan at 500mA you'll probably see smoke lol. It's not built to handle that kind of power, it's just a little tiny ass motor in those fans. You should invest in a real fan that plugs in. You can definitely pick up a 40+ cfm wall plugin fan for 15 bucks or less somewhere. Much more reliable  

Mine works like this:






That's the top compartment of my box now. Exhaust directly over my plant, passive intakes are low in the sides right beside my plant so the negative pressure just blows on her. My 2 exhaust fans are mounted in side of the upper compartment, along with the wiring for my lights. It's completely airtight so all the suction comes directly through those slats you see.


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## redivider (Aug 15, 2009)

it does have a "plug-in"... but doesn't bring a cable.... so I ran it with two D batts it required.. didn't want to plug it in, and risk burnin it, and ended up burnin it anyways....lol......when I turned it on with the batt's it blows a lot harder than any CPU fan i've ever seen.... and i've gutted XPS's and Alienwares before....


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## redivider (Aug 15, 2009)

i'm gonna return it to walmart today, and gonna run it with a single carbon filter, see what happens..... if it still burns out then i'll get a CPU fan.... someone on this forum(can't remember the thread) recomended me the fan I got, telling me it worked fine....even pushing the air through the filters.... ......


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## Fractus (Aug 15, 2009)

Mine's an alienware  Laptop though, not as big fans in laptops as desktops. The fans I'm using have a pretty good blow and they don't mind a little stress. I just know you can only generate so much power from two 1.5v batteries, and that motor probably just didn't have enough torque to muscle air through your filters, so it just burnt up trying. It's probably a great fan for just air circulation around the inside of the box, but doesn't have enough balls to be forcing exhaust through filters. That's my guess.. If you think you can make it work then by all means, try, because for 4$ who really cares if it doesn't work? lol


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## redivider (Aug 15, 2009)

yeah and what the hell, i'll see if it works, i think it doesnt have the umff to push the air thru.... i'll try again today, if it gets toooo hot I'll just remove it before it burns out, and keep the fan for my kitchen when i'm cookin or somethin, and get a CPU fan from best buy.... i need the converter though, cuz mine belongs to my g/f's pencil sharpener... and she uses that shit cuz she's all into art.... i'll figure it out later, goin to bed, need the rest, workin the night shift tonight....


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## redivider (Aug 15, 2009)

oh before i pass out, i'm gonna put a lil journal, no, chronicle of me n my first grow, it's gonna be called to hell n back... jeje.... poor things are getting a lil wilted now b.c of the heat stress this morning, hope they don't die on me....


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## KaleoXxX (Aug 16, 2009)

ive been out of the loop for a while and im surprised how fast they showed sex, and they werent even 12/12. how many days do you think it took to show preflowers?

have you cloned yet? id do so asap for space reasons cuz your plant has a while to go and needs all the room it can get


if your cloning id leave em in a humidity dome until they root and just grow em in the window or outside for a while, until mama is out of the grow box


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## Fractus (Aug 16, 2009)

07-28-2009 01:06 AM 






08-12-2009 04:34 PM 






Fifteen days from the youngsters, under 18/6, and showing preflowers. It does seem really fast.. And now look at her 08-16-2009 8:35 PM, 4 days later:


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## GypsyBush (Aug 16, 2009)

Were these from seed or clone?


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## Fractus (Aug 16, 2009)

Seed. They were seedlings in styrofoam cups under inadequate* light on purpose just to keep them alive but not grow much (or at all) so they were kinda just on pause. So I put them in right after I pulled my old male out of there. Allof these 3 plants were from the same handful of seeds.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 16, 2009)

How long ago did you sprout them?


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## Fractus (Aug 16, 2009)

They were about 2.5 weeks old, but going like retarded slow because I wasn't giving them much light or water. I had no place to put them if they got big :S So I kept them small. After the transplant they took off..


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## GypsyBush (Aug 16, 2009)

So they are 2.5 weeks from sprout now?


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## Fractus (Aug 16, 2009)

No they were 2.5 weeks old as the seedlings you see in the first picture. I just didn't give them anything to live on so they stayed the same size forever lol. They were the same height for like 2 weeks. And 19 days ago I put them in the stryfoam box, and this is what I have now.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 16, 2009)

so how old are they from seed?

what was *the date* you germinated the seeds???


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## Fractus (Aug 16, 2009)

hmmm germination... it was just before the weekend of july 12/13. So from sprout I guess they are a whole month old.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 16, 2009)

ok... thanks...


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## sweet island skunk09 (Aug 18, 2009)

wait when did u switch from plug-in to batts? sorry i guess i haven't been reading as carefully as i should be


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## KaleoXxX (Aug 18, 2009)

looks friggin amazing, cant wait to see the end result, you know ill be watching


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## Fractus (Aug 18, 2009)

I never used batteries, that's redivider that was talking about his fan. This one is still all plugged in  

KaleoXxX - I'm keepin a close eye on her and she's coming along nicely. No 'buds' yet but I'm seeing a concentration of hairs at the sites where they will be  I'll post pics as soon as there is something significant to look at haha


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## Fractus (Aug 19, 2009)

She was getting pretty bushy and I'm pretty sure she was too bushy, it was almost shading some of the bud sites. So I decided to do some tying. My anchors are fat little screws that I screwed into the styrofoam, works great. AND i can tighten the screws to tighten the strings lol. That's a cool feature


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## GypsyBush (Aug 19, 2009)

I like the tying...

It will serve you right...

Did you chop something off the top?


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## Fractus (Aug 19, 2009)

No actually I haven't chopped anywhere. I didn't top it or anything, just let her do her thing. Looks a lot different all sprawled out like that though. Doesn't even look like the same plant lol. Definitely making a lot better use of the space available though.

Oh and I thought I would let you know that the temperature in this apartment hasn't gone below under 80 degrees in a couple weeks, some days it has been as high as 100. My plant isn't even showing signs of heat stress. She must be adjusted to it... Not having any troubles whatsoever.  If I was having problems you would have been the first to know lol


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## sweet island skunk09 (Aug 19, 2009)

have you been trimming any leaves?


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## KaleoXxX (Aug 19, 2009)

obviously not


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## sweet island skunk09 (Aug 19, 2009)

well that might be a good idea to do along with tying it
give your bud spots more light


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## KaleoXxX (Aug 19, 2009)

i wouldnt do anything like that, even this little LST puts you plant at minor risk of going herm, so trimming leafs might have an adverse effect.....


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## Fractus (Aug 19, 2009)

I just moved the fan leaves out of the way as much as possible. It's looking alright now, they all have pretty good light access. I don't think I hurt her, don't think I'm stressing her too much at all. Pretty sure I'm safe  It is my first time tying, but I've done tons of reading about it so I know I did it right.. And I don't want to trim any leaves because then I'm messing with my plant's root-foliage balance lol. I don't wanna stunt it. Just gonna let her keep her equilibrium.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 19, 2009)

KaleoXxX said:


> i wouldnt do anything like that, even this little LST puts you plant at minor risk of going herm, so trimming leafs might have an adverse effect.....



Where did you get that???


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## purpdaddy (Aug 19, 2009)

KaleoXxX said:


> i wouldnt do anything like that, even this little LST puts you plant at minor risk of going herm, so trimming leafs might have an adverse effect.....


 LST=Low STRESS Training..ill be tying off and bending like that soon
and i always topp.


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## SimplyBaked (Aug 19, 2009)

wow looks like ur styro grow is turning out pretty damn good! and to think..people were bashin u the whole time!


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## Fractus (Aug 20, 2009)

Yeah lol, but I wouldn't be where I am without the criticism I got. I avoided all the newb mistakes because I did my homework before doing anything, And because I posted everything here so anyone else could catch any mistakes I made. I mean look at step 1 of my box and look at it now? It has evolved and now I think it's perfect lol.

Also, since I tied it a few hours ago, all15 of my budsites are now curved up towards the light again, that didn't take long at all! I'll post a new pic tomorrow night to show the difference, she's growing so quickly =D


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## SimplyBaked (Aug 20, 2009)

damn...makes me want to give one of these a test run...maybe ill put one together for my first lowryder grow! But yeh ur right, ur box has significantly changed from the first step until now! and your plant looks beautiful...looks like she loves being in there...so basically it speaks for itself!

+rep!!


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## purpdaddy (Aug 20, 2009)

SimplyBaked said:


> wow looks like ur styro grow is turning out pretty damn good! and to think..people were bashin u the whole time!


 .Na..not bashing..just advising...without gypsy guidance he would have heat issues that would slow down growth or kill the plants...lookin damn good now though!Cant wait to see these flowering!


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## redivider (Aug 20, 2009)

hey thought I'd check in, ur plantslookin good... mine are doin fine too, i never bought any fans, it seems the big hole on top of my box where my old fan used to be + the two holes on the side are enough passive vent to keep the temps down,but i'm getting a 6" fan w a carbon filter cuz my apt smellz, even though I put some carbon sheets on my a/c unit and i think sm of the smell is gettin outside :S.... .....mine aren't as bushy as yours yet, but thee getting there... andhave a lil less soil and have gone to hell n back.... I also topped them, seems to have worked...........currently on 8th day of 12/12 using 2 42 w soft w, 1 19 watt softwhite and 1 19 watt daylight and still no sex showing....... gotta have patience... i also got a mechanical timer frm HD for 12 bucks and its the shit, cheap and pretty accurate, the most it's deviated so far is 10-13 mins which is fine for me.... talk to ya later, peace!


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## redivider (Aug 20, 2009)

made a mistake, most the timers deviated is 1-3 mins... jeje...peace


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## ArBleiz (Aug 20, 2009)

Just wanted to post a quick note; forgive me if it's been brought up before (been on the thread for over an hour and I'm only on page 18 of 40 lol).

I used styrofoam trays to start seedlings this year (veggies actually). I noticed that the roots were drilling into the styrofoam by the time I transplanted them.

The concern I'm bringing up is that if you don't use a pot your plant roots will eventually drill through the bottom of your cooler. When that happens you might get water leakage. 

I hope this helps!


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## Fractus (Aug 20, 2009)

Purpdaddy-
I do have heat issues, and for whatever reason it isn't hurting my plants lol. I think 75 - 85 degrees must be an optimum temperature for best growth and being higher than that isn't necessarilly harmful at all, because my plant is doing just fine and most of her life has been spent above 90 and lots of times at 100 or higher. She doesn't have any discolouration or abnormal leaf curving that would indicate stress. Maybe she's just a tough girl  But I do agree, I wouldn't be where I am without Gypsy

redivider-
Sounds like you're learning as you go, keep it up haha. And for future reference, there is an "Edit" function on these threads so you don't need to double post 

ArBleiz-
Yeah this has been a long journey, hence a long thread. Good point though. Roots are tough shit. I think I mentioned when I killed my first male that I lifted up the plant and pulled out ALL of the soil in one piece lol, it was ridiculous, first I lifted up the whole box by the stem, then I held the box down and pulled it harder and lifted all the dirt clean out of the box. But the roots didn't appear to be penetrating at all, just turning back in when it hit the edges. I couldn't believe the network of roots I had. This female is more mature than the first plant now so hopefully her roots don't go through. Only time will tell. The stryofoam used to make the cooler may be more dense than that of your trays.. lets hope anyway


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## Fractus (Aug 20, 2009)

I took this 1 minute ago:






 She looks happy


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## ArBleiz (Aug 20, 2009)

r2fs said:


> Hi Fructus, ive been folowing your thread since you started posting with interest, sorry your 1st plant was male by the way.
> are you sure that there wasnt any old bud or resin left in your vapouriser as i was under the impression there was NO thc in males?


Males just have less THC.

We forgot but most the weed smoked in the US and Canada in the 60s and 70s were males. Growers kept the sin semilla (without seeds / females) for themselves.

That's why medias always say that weed now is stronger. Strains are stronger yes, but mostly the majority of the product is females whereas even just 15 years ago 'sinsemilla' was considered rare even in Europe.

Fractus: it smokes harsh mainly because it's not dryed or cured. Females would taste just as bad 'fresh off the vine'. The curing process is the most important part in making it smoke smoother.


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## redivider (Aug 20, 2009)

i noticed that a little late... 

here's a pic of my own plant... 

the first pic: it's about 30i days old any day now(not sure), 8th day of 12/12....notice the bottom leaf is having issues, i'm guessing that's a root problem, so any ideas on how to cure that? or should I just let em fall off...? they also don't get any side lighting so it may be lack of light, since my plant started getting bushy after I topped it, that was 4 days ago, (i did it cuz it was reaching my lights so I just went for it, it seems to be doing ok.).... opinions, suggestions are welcome....

second pic is the same plant as the first....another angle, close up... if anyone sees indications of sex let me know...

the last pic: I also have another plant in the box, it was my first one, it has been heavily stressed, little light when it was small, under AND overwattering.... I ddn't expect it to live.... you can see some leaves heavily nute burned, i guess a root reached some of those nute balls in the soil, but it's healing nicely and apparantely it's gonna make it... it's about 1.5 to 2 weeks older than the other one, yet it's not nearly as bushy or healthy, it also seems to be another strain..... i've got that one 12/12 too, might produce buds, only one way to find out....

opinions, suggestions are welcome.... 

peace!!!


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## littlegrower2004 (Aug 20, 2009)

so r u going to flower it fractus?


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## Fractus (Aug 20, 2009)

Fractus said:


> Now the plant is centered in the box, i just tossed the male this time instead of trying to use it again lol. Also on 12/12 now and as you can see the lights were all changed to 3000K - 3500K


That is post #337, I started flowering that day. And in the most recent pic I put up, you can tell the budsites are starting to produce. At this rate, in a few more days I'll have pictures of little buds for sure.

redivider-
My plant showed early preflowers so I knew she was a girl before flowering. I'm surprised that after 8 days you still don't have any sign... It may just not be mature enough yet, you probably could have held off a while on flowering. And it probably would have made more sense to top them and then keep vegging so that you get your multiple tops developed before trying to bud them, in my opinion. I could be wrong though. Topping isn't something I have tried.

The lower leaves with issues aren't necessarily anything to be worried about, it's natural for the first lower couple of leaves to die off as the plant gets bigger. I know mine did, and my plant is far from unhealthy. I just pulled off the dead bottom leaves. No big deal.

You probably should start a thread about your issue, you'll get more responses there than here.  Cheers man


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## redivider (Aug 20, 2009)

ur probably right, but i dnt have much room in my apt anyways, and the plants are pretty tall since they were under llit in the begining.... you cn see the lil tops growing on the sides, this weekend i'm gonna be out of town, and where my plants are staying they are going to get a lot of side lighting, so it's gonna grow more, and i'm giving it a lil bit more nutes before I go, rite now i put about a teaspoon every other day, and they are doing GREAT (even though some "experienced" grower told me I was over feeding them, when I stopped they looked sad, jeje, its a mix of a little bit of 24-8-16 and mostly 15-30-15, not full strength) so before I go i'm putting in 4-5 teaspoons.... someone told me sometimes it takes up to 14 days if you flower them very early like I did....i'm praying to god that's what's happening jeje.... i know this weekend is going to be great for them cuz the "under leaves" are gonna be receiving about 3800 lumens of light, even more than the top ones (this is on purpose, cuz the top leaves are pretty big, and I want the "under leaves/growths" to receive more light so they thrive)... i'll let you guyz know how this weekend goes for the babies... i hope I don't get one female and one male and have the male pollinate the female... that would be the shit hitting the fan.... PEACE!!!


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## Fractus (Aug 20, 2009)

Hey man this is all just my opinion. take it for what it's worth. I'm sure some of the guys will agree with me. First of all, giving it a bunch of side-lighting is not necessary. Leaves are flat and grow outwards for the purpose of catching light coming from straight up. Giving it a ton of light from the sides is a mistake I made at the beginning. It may not hurt the plant, but it can. The undersides of the leaves are mose sensitive to the tops so be careful where you have your light. 
Next, your nute situation. 24-8-16 sounds like miracle-gro to me. That's what I use. About once a week I mix like half strength into my water (just less than a teaspoon), and feed it. I water every second day (approximately, I go by drynees, not on a schedule) and I only feed it every third watering. So it sounds like you are already overfeeding like the "experienced grower" told you. If you give it 4-5 teaspoons it will more than likely be dead when you come back. I think you should starve your plants and watch them use what nutrients they already have in the soil. Water properly, don't feed for a week. And keep your lighting on the top. Instead of pumping 3800 lumens into the bottoms, double up the light hitting the top. My box is hitting around 10 000 lumens from 4 bulbs directly overhead and you've seen my results. Just some tips man, I'm no expert.. You might wanna hear what some people say before feeding though, that's for sure.


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## milligram smile (Aug 20, 2009)

I like the set up. I'm a newb to this whole thing myself but I have to agree with the concerns over heat. Now, granted i have a lot more light (8 bulbs ranging from 23 watt to 27 watt cfls) I heat tested my cabinet (2 1/2 W by 1 1/2 D by 4 1/4 H) without the ventilation and in 2 hours I had 98.8 degrees. I added 4" H/O fans for in and output and It helped but i still have to upgrade one of the fans to keep my temps in the low 80's. this is probably a little older thread and you probably know better but I figured I'd through in my 2 cents. sorry. If you have this all finished-please let me know how it worked out-very curious. 
smoke on
MS


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## redivider (Aug 20, 2009)

about the feedng, i put a teaspoon in the soil, a tea spoon as in 6-7 drops of the mix I make... i'm doing the mix now cuz the stems started turning purple and since i started with the mix they turned greeeeen...... and it's not every other day, it's on tuesdays and thursdays, a few drops on the soil, which hardly even moistens the thing ..... but ok, i wnt feed it tomorrow.......my plant food is miracle grow, the flowering and the normal one..... in terms of watering i stick my finger in there, and water accordingly, but i dnt think i over water cuz i live in a DRY ass place and water has NEVER reached the tray below my plants.... i also dont have the $$ to buy all the materials, i think they look great considering i've only spent 60 bucks on my setup,.... 60 bux isn't much for some ppl but i dnt even have 60 bux in my bnk acct, can't even spare 20 bux at once to buy decent fans, so i'm happy for nw, if not i have about 40 more seeds here i can try, that's just the first two


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## husalife (Aug 21, 2009)

Thread jacker lol.

Does it have an oder Fractus?


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## Fractus (Aug 21, 2009)

Oh does it ever. If I lift the cover for 5 minutes my room reaks. But that carbon filter is working flawlessy. No scent gets through it, nothing. I love it to death


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## husalife (Aug 21, 2009)

Hell yeah, thats what I wanted to hear lol


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## KaleoXxX (Aug 21, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Where did you get that???


ya low STRESS training low chance, im not tryin to scare him, just saying that cutting leafs off(someone sugested) isnt a good idea right now

it looks really good, this is probably my favorite grow to follow. im sure its like this for you too, but every time i look in your box im surprised how much its grown

i saw these same coolers the other day ta cumbys and pictured a plant inside


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## Fractus (Aug 21, 2009)

haha yeah i'm always amazed to see it. It grows so much in the run of a day.. When the lights are out for 12 hours she stays dark, but when the lights come on I check on her and I'm always amazed. I definitely won't need to be doing any cutting. But where my main cola is going to be, it's right between 4 lights with the vent right over top of it so it should be okay, but it may get too close. In which case, I'm going to raise the lid (by putting some sort of spacer in between the two coolers)


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## tmsculli (Aug 21, 2009)

I just read this entire thread, and my vote is to have it made into a romance novel involving bitter rivalries and love triangles =P

But seriously, very cool grow. I am currently in my mental fritz stage of not knowing what the hell I should do. Best of luck to you and keep us posted on how things are going!


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## husalife (Aug 21, 2009)

Buy another cooloer and cut a section out and duck tape that on top of it then put lid on. Would give you ample space for that beaut.


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## sweet island skunk09 (Aug 21, 2009)

are the cfl's you've been using manufactured by feit?


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## Fractus (Aug 21, 2009)

My 6500's are made by GE, and my 2700s/3000s are made by Sylvania. Why do you ask?

husa-
Great idea, but that would cost 10$. I bet I can do it for free   If not I'll be doing exactly like you said. Thanks for the tip dude.

Taken today:


















Decided to go with imageshack to keep the full resolution so you can get a better look. My cellphone isn't the best camera in the world but unfortunately I'm not going to go purchase a high quality camera so I can show the world my weed plant. I hope you all understand.. haha. Cheers


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## SimplyBaked (Aug 21, 2009)

Fractus said:


> My 6500's are made by GE, and my 2700s/3000s are made by Sylvania. Why do you ask?
> 
> husa-
> Great idea, but that would cost 10$. I bet I can do it for free  If not I'll be doing exactly like you said. Thanks for the tip dude.
> ...




WOW Fractus...u have plenty of bud sites..and ur plants look super healthy! lookin nice homie!


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## TCElement (Aug 21, 2009)

i 2 read the whole thread epic! setup looks good gonna do somethin similar 4 my 1st grow probly make the box out of somethin else though, lookin 4ward 2 seein the end result!


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## r2fs (Aug 22, 2009)

So if your carbon filter works well...can you tell me how you made it please?


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## husalife (Aug 22, 2009)

10 bucks, comin Fractus give that girl a little bigger appartment. Hell. lol


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## Fractus (Aug 22, 2009)

husalife said:


> 10 bucks, comin Fractus give that girl a little bigger appartment. Hell. lol


Oh I will, I just mean I can make something just as effective for free. Even wood... I don't need to buy another cooler and then destroy it haha. But it definitely needs to be raised by like tomorrow because the top is only an inch and a half from my lights and it will get too hot once she gets any closer. I'll make something for it today.


r2fs-
Carbon filter design is as follows.


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## KaleoXxX (Aug 22, 2009)

congrats on post 420 on this thread. and it was written(in my timezone atleast) at 4:21

lets smoke a bow!


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## Fractus (Aug 22, 2009)

I think husa had post #420, at least that's what I'm seeing, and his was written at 1:02pm your time haha but oh well. Mine would be post 421 at 4:21 so that's pretty ironic. Also, my Vector box is actually being used as a vector box so that's ironic too.


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## KaleoXxX (Aug 22, 2009)

oh i just realized i was talking about 420 replies


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## SimplyBaked (Aug 22, 2009)

damn nice carbon filter..i def have to duplicate that...how much did they pellets run you? and do you fill up the entire box?


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## Fractus (Aug 22, 2009)

The pellets I got I paid 20$ for. And the whole container fit into that cereal box perfectly :S It works awesome though. You just have to make sure you put something over the outside of your fan too so the pellets don't fall back into the spinning blades and fuck it up. I used more screen and some zipties to cover my fan, and it's tight enough that the weight of the pellets don't push back in on it. It really turned out perfect. It's very sturdy and 100% smellproof.


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## SimplyBaked (Aug 22, 2009)

thas wassup, im def doin this...so the screen from windows works great for the bottom of the cereal box and to cover the back of the fan?


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## Fractus (Aug 22, 2009)

Yeah it worked great, it definitely holds the weight.


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## sweet island skunk09 (Aug 22, 2009)

Fractus said:


> My 6500's are made by GE, and my 2700s/3000s are made by Sylvania. Why do you ask?
> 
> because i have a 6 pack of eco-bulbs that are 75 watts each and i thought they were the same lights with the green letters


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## Fractus (Aug 23, 2009)

I actually don't have any 75 watt-ers, mine are all 23 or 26w. But you are right about the green font. I have quite a mixture of bulbs of all different kelvins and manufacturers. I do have a few eco bulbs in my mix though, two of them are being used right now. My 6500k are GE, my 3500k are Sylvania(two of these in my box), my 3000k are Feit (BluePlanet bulbs, 2 are in my box), and I have some other GE's that I think are 2700k. I don't have the original packaging anymore and it doesn't say on the bulb what kelvin rating though.
So yes you probably do recognize my bulbs lol.


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## SativaFan (Aug 23, 2009)

if you arent growing with a lowryder hybrid, you might want to try to get another bottom piece to put on top to make for more area for the plant to grow up. other than that that is a really nice stealthy design, i love how you included the intake/exhaust fan . good job dude


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## SativaFan (Aug 23, 2009)

disregard that post above....i didnt realize you had gotten another bottom piece for the top


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## Fractus (Aug 23, 2009)

I raised the top about 3 inches, the main cola is still pushing right up there. She gets so much taller everyday. I need to rethink a bit. I'm so tempted to cut off the top because if I raise the lights all my other 20-odd lower budsites will get so much less light. But I think I'd rather chop off my own nuts than chop off her cola. That's going to be the best part! So I'm trying to think of a new effective & efficient way to raise the top with as little light loss as possible, and I also need to make sure my ventilation and carbon filter don't suffer in the process because those are very important parts to this grow especially right now in the process lol. So any good thinkers out there feel free to toss in a word if you can think of a good way to "raise the roof"


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## husalife (Aug 24, 2009)

Take a picture of the entire box " if you can" so we can look and get a mental pic of what is needed to 

"Raise YO Roof"

I would love to help out. PEACE WEED & CARBON FILTERS...lol


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## redivider (Aug 24, 2009)

hey after almost two weeks of eager anticipation i just saw the first white hairs on one of my plants!!!!!!...


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## sweet island skunk09 (Aug 27, 2009)

yeah u haven't posted a picture of the whole box since they had just started flowering


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## KaleoXxX (Aug 28, 2009)

im waiting to see where things are at too. 

ya dont cut that cola man, your absolutely right, it would be worse than cutting your balls off.

maybe you could hang a pair of cfls down the sides of the plant? you know, to give light to your lower branches


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## Fractus (Aug 28, 2009)

Definitely won't be doing any cutting lol. What I did was take the divider out and moved my lights right to the top of the cover, now it has planty of room. Also, I'm running 6 bulbs in it now too instead of four. (I put two 6500s in with my 2x3000 and 2x3500). My box is so reflecive on the inside that I don't need to worry about lowering lights for my lower branches, it all lights up equally on the inside at around 10000 lumens concentrated on light wavelengths useful to both chlorophyll A and B. Unfortunately I'm not home right now so I can't give you guys any pictures, probably for another 2 days. I watered before I left my place yesterday and it shouldn't need water again until I get back, but just in case my brother is watching over it for me. I'm excited to see the progress too lol. Come back in two days for an update and new pics  Until then I won't have any news for all my viewers at home haha. I'd like to take a minute to thank my sponsors for all the help and advice I got along the way (Most of all, Gypsy, the weed Guru), and of course KaleoXxX for being a dedicated subscriber  Nobody be offended if I didn't mention your name, I'd be here all day! Lol. This thread has come a long way.


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## SimplyBaked (Aug 28, 2009)

nice..cant wait to see those pics


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## KaleoXxX (Aug 28, 2009)

your keeping me in suspense bro


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## redivider (Aug 31, 2009)

hey i built another box entirely... it's higher and bigger so I need to get more light... i'm putting in a 70 watt hps, to go with a pair of 42 watt soft whites...... 

check out my plants below... hope urs are doin fine...


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## SimplyBaked (Sep 1, 2009)

how far into flower are your plants?


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## redivider (Sep 1, 2009)

just started third week of 12.12 today.... it took 16 days for pistils to show, started showing on august 25... by the 26 i was positive one was female... i only realized both were females yesterday morning....


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## sweet island skunk09 (Sep 1, 2009)

i hope you have someone watering your plant


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## Fractus (Sep 2, 2009)

Guys I got quite a surprise when I came back to my baby. She didn't appreciate those 6 bulbs in there while I was away, the cola grew straight up into them and dried out until it was completely dead. I smoked it today because it was already dried for me lmao. And believe it or not I got surprisingly high, but I can tell it's premature. Anyway, I have corrected the problem, I removed any damaged foliage and I also trimmed many fan leaves off in order to make better light access to budsites. I also have done a whole new tying job which looks fantastic, I just got done, and here is a picture of what I have now. I know it looks nothing like the bush it was before because I stretched it all out and gave her a trim, but I can assure you when it adjusts to the tie it will get bushy again. Notice HOW MANY BUDSITES she has!!!! 

July 28, 2009:






September 2, 2009


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## GypsyBush (Sep 2, 2009)

that was probably the best thing you could have done for that plant...

Now all your budsites are exposed.. instead of the shade farm it was before...

Probably increased your yield..


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## Fractus (Sep 2, 2009)

For the size & cost of my operation, I think my yield is going to be incredible. It has so much on it already and it's nowhere near finished! I'm definitely going to have more than an ounce dry weight when I harvest. And I'm still under the 200$ mark so all-in-all, mission successful! And lots more plants to come. I would like to have a bigger growbox though. Just like anything else in life, you start something and next thing you know, you're taking it to the next level and going bigger. I can't yet though, I'll stick with this one for this winter and plan out something new for next year.

Edit:
And in one month you se the difference. 2 weeks veg, 2 weeks flower, and another 2 more weeks it will be done. 1.5 months start to finish with great yield, I'm happy with that for now.


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## husalife (Sep 2, 2009)

Wow thats just awsome. 
Good job bro.


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## SimplyBaked (Sep 2, 2009)

yeh u have plenty of bud sites. Sorry to hear about ur cola...sux....but at least u got to smoke it..

im duplicating this box in a couple weeks with a fem blueberry seed. Cant wait!


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## sweet island skunk09 (Sep 2, 2009)

that looks mad nice, could u post those pictures of the box now that your back?


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## Fractus (Sep 2, 2009)

Come back in a few hours and I will give you some pics of the box from different angles to better explain how I built it, lights are out right now so I'm not going to bother her. It's fairly simply though, and husalife, instead of replicating it, keep in mind that it is a prototype. Take my idea and run with it. You could make a better plant than mine if you had better lighting, and you can easily get it much brighter in there as long as you have better ventilation than I do.

Personally I would really like to swap my fans for a more powerful one so that I could run 6 CFLs instead of 4.


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## husalife (Sep 2, 2009)

My box plans a slightly bigger, but no six foot by any means. I will try to take a couple pics and add to my profile so you can see. Dont wanna jack your thread with my pictures. Peace bro


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## SimplyBaked (Sep 2, 2009)

another question...how much noise does the box make..with the fans going and everything..just wondering because i have a small room but the closet has more than enough room! Wanna b as stealth as possible!


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## GypsyBush (Sep 2, 2009)

since you never come by my grow...

I thought I would bring you an update on my growbox *3 weeks* into flower...


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## redivider (Sep 2, 2009)

damn, that plant looks crazy, in a i want to smoke some of your plant crazy.....

you've done a lot better than me, but i'm still under the $100 mark...

i'm putting in a single picture here so you see how i'm doing, what do you think? it's got 9-10 budsites...not too bad for such a short plant...

i was going to put the HPS light, but i wont be able to make the rent if I do, ...so not yet...

i'm also gonna work on some tying down of my branches tomorrow, so my budsites get more light.... 

next week it's getting it's first taste of molasses too...

take care and keep at it, that plant's gonna give you a hell of a lot of good weed


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## Fractus (Sep 2, 2009)

That's a cute little plant, redivider. I'm impressed with how it looks considering the budget you're on. 

Gypsy, holy hell. I'm stunned. Someday I'll have a super secret operation like that haha. Like 10 years down the road if the world doesn't end in 2012 (LMAO!)

My setup runs nearly silent, when I close my closet door I can't even hear the little humm that the computer fans make. But that was before today. Today I got sick of not being able to run 6 bulbs because it gets too hot. So I upgraded my fan to one that is 4 times as big and powerful, this one runs on 120v instead of my 12vdc cpu fans lol. I'm loving the power this thing has, I paid 15$ it at Princess Auto. It's pretty much unmarked, no idea what CFM... But it blows like hell, anyway I installed it today. Now running 6 bulbs, and here are some new pictures of the box and the plant for those interested.  If you have any questions about how I did something, ask away.


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## SimplyBaked (Sep 3, 2009)

setup looks nice as shit..cant wait to duplicate this


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## SimplyBaked (Sep 3, 2009)

where are your drain holeS?


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## KaleoXxX (Sep 3, 2009)

thats 1 crazy lookin plant man, i see like 40 little budsites in there, and most of them look like colas. that lst did you good


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## Fractus (Sep 3, 2009)

SimplyBaked said:


> where are your drain holeS?


 
There are no drain holes, so don't overwater  If you want drain holes when you replicate it, feel free, but I didn't need them. The amount of soil I have in there will comfortably soak up two litres of water.

Yeah each branch looks like a cola of it's own, just covered in budsites, and at this rate I'm guessing in about 2 weeks you won't be able to see much branch.


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## SimplyBaked (Sep 3, 2009)

yeh i agree...buds look lovely tho....what strain is this again? i 4get. Or is it just Bagseed?


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## Fractus (Sep 3, 2009)

Just bagseed man. No idea what origin.


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## Fractus (Sep 3, 2009)

Actually that isn't completely true. I got the seeds from a friend who got them from one of his friends. Apparently they are the seeds he was given to grow legally for a medical condition. I don't know what you get for seeds when you get prescription marijuana lol, but that's what I'm growing. But since I have no idea what it is I'm calling it bagseed. lol


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## GypsyBush (Sep 4, 2009)

Hey Fractus...

This is *NOT* my op...

But I thought I'd share anyways...




>


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## Fractus (Sep 4, 2009)

oh wow...that's such a crazy looking system. Lots of money went into that :/


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## GypsyBush (Sep 4, 2009)

no shit...

BIG set of balls too...


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## husalife (Sep 4, 2009)

GypsyBush man i told you not to show my grow op off to anyone bro....

J/K J/K I wish


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## purpdaddy (Sep 4, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> no shit...
> 
> BIG set of balls too...


Fuccin GORILLA nutz id say.....


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## tmsculli (Sep 4, 2009)

purpdaddy said:


> Fuccin GORILLA nutz id say.....


I'd even go as far as to say some sort of large dinosaur testicles would be required to pull that one off.


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## Fractus (Sep 4, 2009)

Maybe they aren't as big as you think but the guy just has several testicles more than he is supposed to have. Or perhaps he has no genitalia whatsoever, in which case he would feel no fear. Haha. "Ye who has no gonads fears nothing." -Fractus


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## Fractus (Sep 6, 2009)

Today, just after I watered her:


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## Gardener 09 (Sep 6, 2009)

looks nice, is that style of growing more effective than just normally?


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## Fractus (Sep 6, 2009)

i don't know lol, it's my first try


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## SimplyBaked (Sep 6, 2009)

lol weird question...whats normally?


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## Fractus (Sep 6, 2009)

Maybe he means tying it down. That's the only technique I'm using aside from letting the plant grow itself. lol


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## ReggaeGanja (Sep 6, 2009)

wow u had a really great turn out how old are they now?


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## ReggaeGanja (Sep 6, 2009)

dude i cant wait to see your harvest


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## Fractus (Sep 6, 2009)

they are 40 days old from seedling, but I had them as seedlings getting not much light for a couple weeks. I guess that makes them two months old from sprout. It will be faster next time tough. I'm pumped for harvest too.


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## potlike (Sep 6, 2009)

I am in agreement with some of the others that have said they weren't sure whether styrofoam was the best material choice. However I believe you are most likely not going to have a problem with it. That said very respectable grow with what you have into it.

You may want to consider getting some UVB lights(reptile lights-not heat lamps) in there for some more THC. Other than that great job and very creative- I like what you did w/ the carbon filter especially.

Good luck on the rest of your grow.

-potlike


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## Fractus (Sep 6, 2009)

Thanks dude, I thought twice about styrofoam at first but I did my homework and it seemed to be the safest material I had the tools to work with. All I needed was a utility knife to cut holes. I did my homework though and realized the odds of a syrofoam box setting fire is just as likely as anything else. Defective bulbs can happen to anyone I guess. My box stays very cool though, especially since I upgraded the fan that I explained like 15 posts ago or something. I may consider new bulbs in the future but for now my CLF's seem to be doing the trick. Here, take a look from right now:

















 I'm very happy with my turnout of my very first female!


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## Fractus (Sep 6, 2009)

...Also, my lights right now in the top of the box are at LEAST 5 inches from the highest point of the plant, yet all my buds are growing as if the light is right on top of it and all of them growing equally. That bright white styrofoam interior is super reflective and really doing an awesome job and maximizing my light from every direction.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 6, 2009)

the smell starting to kick up yet?


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 7, 2009)

Well I have been lurking...

And I'm glad my potential concerns have not materialized. 

That's one crazy lookin plant  I don't know if I have seen something quite like that before!

She looks nice though, very good job on the tying. The budsites all look quite happy and these is very little shade, if any. I am not quite sure about your potential yield...we will have to see just how much they fatten up in the last few weeks.

Where are you at with nutes right now? I am just curious how you plan on flushing her without drainage?


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## Fractus (Sep 7, 2009)

My carbon filter kicks ass, it doesn't smell at all closed, open is another story. She smells strong and yummy  

My last feed was a few days ago and I'm thinking I just wont feed it anything except water until harvest. I hardly ever gave it anything anyway. Just half strength doses of MG plant food shots mixed in my water. Less than once a week, not on a specific schedule. Is it always necessary to flush? I kinda wasn't planning on it. If I really should do it I guess I'l make drain holes in the bottom with a screwdriver or something. No big deal, it's only styrofoam 

Edit: 
Yield, I'm banking on nearly two ounces. If each budsite comes out to a gram that gives me two ounces. They may very well get bigger than that, in which case 3 or 4 ounces from it wouldn't surprise me.  Then again I've never harvested before either. But it just looks like a lot of weed haha


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 7, 2009)

Fractus said:


> My carbon filter kicks ass, it doesn't smell at all closed, open is another story. She smells strong and yummy
> 
> My last feed was a few days ago and I'm thinking I just wont feed it anything except water until harvest. I hardly ever gave it anything anyway. Just half strength doses of MG plant food shots mixed in my water. Less than once a week, not on a specific schedule. Is it always necessary to flush? I kinda wasn't planning on it. If I really should do it I guess I'l make drain holes in the bottom with a screwdriver or something. No big deal, it's only styrofoam
> 
> ...


I would flush FOR SURE. MG wouldn't taste good in the smoke, if you ask me.

Also, have you thought about using backstrap molasses at 1-2 TBLS per gallon and pure ph'ed water for the last 14 days? Just water the normal amount but put some hole in to leach the salt buildup from the nutes you've used.

Even if it hasn't been a lot, flushing in soil is tried and true. I have done both. Actually, I didn't properly flush my first grow with MG nutes and it didn't taste good.


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## Fractus (Sep 7, 2009)

I'll look into it for sure. Good taste would be nice. Hey can you feed your plant coffee and make Kappuccino Kush?  Just curious lol. I've heard of using molasses before though so I may do that. I'll keep you posted with what I do, but I will probably flush. I know it also strengthens the plant, kinda like conditioning it. Put it through flood and drought. I personally think a carefully stressed plant would be healthier than one that lives in perfect conditions all the time. I give mine lots of attention and mix it up for her sometimes. Watering more or less frequently, I don't stick to a schedule on purpose. Just play it by ear, get creative because we all know Mother Nature does and she grows awesome plants doesn't she? haha


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 7, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I'll look into it for sure. Good taste would be nice. Hey can you feed your plant coffee and make Kappuccino Kush?  Just curious lol. I've heard of using molasses before though so I may do that. I'll keep you posted with what I do, but I will probably flush. I know it also strengthens the plant, kinda like conditioning it. Put it through flood and drought. I personally think a carefully stressed plant would be healthier than one that lives in perfect conditions all the time. I give mine lots of attention and mix it up for her sometimes. Watering more or less frequently, I don't stick to a schedule on purpose. Just play it by ear, get creative because we all know Mother Nature does and she grows awesome plants doesn't she? haha


Actually I agree completely.

I do several different things to stress my plants at different times.

I crush the stems to fatten them for later enhanced transportation for food/water and to halt vertical growth temporarily. I let me freshly rooted clones dry out once transplanted and watered once until they start to droop slightly, to encourage the quick development of roots. With watering I would rather water a day late than a day early, if I had to choose.

And yes, sometimes weeds preform best under stress. Provided it managable...

It drives my girl crazy when I pull her hair, but if I smacked her in the face then shit would hit the fan!


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## Fractus (Sep 7, 2009)

> It drives my girl crazy when I pull her hair, but if I smacked her in the face then shit would hit the fan!


I like this anology haha.
Those are some cool techniques I'll probably also try in the future. I think stem crushing would be beneficial in my case where height is an issue. Would have been better than chopping her head off. But then again this shape works much better for my box. Just a wide abundance of buds and it's very low. The highest part is no more than a foot high I don't think, it just branches out wide. I also don't think I ever water too early. I water when I know the dirt can hold plenty and is dry or near dry. Just the extent of the dryness varies when I water. And even nutes don't come on a schedule for me. I just give her a taste and when I think she used it all up I give her another taste. I don't think much will drain out when I flush, but maybe it will surprise me and my runoff will be yellow. Hard to say lol.


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## Fractus (Sep 7, 2009)

I fed just less than a teaspoon of MG with 2 litres of water, probably 4 times since it went in the box, and none as a seedling. I was planning on just stopping now and letting it clean itself out by only giving straight water, but a flush couldn't hurt either way. Let her droop for a day and then perk up the next day bigger and tougher than before eh? I think that tip will dramatically increase my yield and flavor.  Ty for that one.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 7, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I like this anology haha.
> Those are some cool techniques I'll probably also try in the future. I think stem crushing would be beneficial in my case where height is an issue. Would have been better than chopping her head off. But then again this shape works much better for my box. Just a wide abundance of buds and it's very low. The highest part is no more than a foot high I don't think, it just branches out wide. I also don't think I ever water too early. I water when I know the dirt can hold plenty and is dry or near dry. Just the extent of the dryness varies when I water. And even nutes don't come on a schedule for me. I just give her a taste and when I think she used it all up I give her another taste. I don't think much will drain out when I flush, but maybe it will surprise me and my runoff will be yellow. Hard to say lol.


Well it doesn't have to be yellow to be a signal of a good flush.

The key is to unlock the salt bonds and also force the plant to use up the nutrients it has stored in its leaves, often discoloring them yellow, light green, brown, or even purple and reddish hues.

Now some, like Gypsy, don't flush. But he grows in hydro and changes this medium (water) every two weeks, I assume, by draining and cleaning his rez. Some people in hydro still flush.

I just know from what I have learned from experience: my flushed nugs tasted better and smoked nicer than those that weren't. Just food for thought


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## Fractus (Sep 7, 2009)

I like the idea of flushing. Any estimate on how long I should wait before doing it? I already know a few ways to do it properly. I'll probably make holes and use the bathtub method lol, seems effective and easy for something like what I have.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 7, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I like the idea of flushing. Any estimate on how long I should wait before doing it? I already know a few ways to do it properly. I'll probably make holes and use the bathtub method lol, seems effective and easy for something like what I have.


Yeah that's what I do, flush in the tub.

Well let's see...you want to flush for about 14-21 days max. 

So yours are 40 days old? Since they are in dirt and under CFL'S, let's say they take 10-12 weeks. So that's about 2-4 weeks. Probably closer to the 4 weeks based on the pics.

I think you could have some real nice nugs if you are patient and let them swell up.

The key is not to rush it. Watch for the hairs to start to turn amber in large numbers, for the calyxes to swell and the pistils to recede back into them.

Got a scope to check trichs? If you are going to half cloudy/amber, wait until you get some amber starting to develop and then flush for two weeks (provided the other signs point to it looking to being done in 14-21 days max)

The way your buds are in full light...if you can slowly convince them that they are dying...they're gonna get all fat and sticky for ya 

Then......CHOP! 

Really though, with CFL'S, things develop a tad slower, so you will be able to figure it out. And if you need help...logon


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## Fractus (Sep 7, 2009)

Maybe this is a newb question but what is the purpose of flushing more than once or a couple times? It should clean my medium with a couple rinses, could I not just give her straight water after that? Or is it more about the fact that the flushing will make the plant think it is dying and help the buds? I also have a can of CO2 from paintball, and a computer air duster. Both of these things could probably simulate a first frost too couldn't they? Just a thought. I haven't looked into it but I'm sure it's been done.
I could also gradually make the days shorter, it's on 12/12 now, I can adjust my cheap timer to intervals of 15 minutes. I don't have a budlooker so I'll need to invest in one of those.


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## nickbbad (Sep 7, 2009)

when people talk about flushing at the end they usually just mean watering with straight water for the last couple of weeks.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 7, 2009)

Fractus said:


> Maybe this is a newb question but what is the purpose of flushing more than once or a couple times? It should clean my medium with a couple rinses, could I not just give her straight water after that?


That's what flushing is, just giving her straight water...maybe some molasses...not sure what you mean?

I don't flush my soil excessively. Meaning if I normally water 1 litre per plant, I still water 1 litre per plant. I just do it for two weeks.

Some people think you should dump huge amounts of water through...I don't. The last thing I want right before I harvest is root rot.



Fractus said:


> Or is it more about the fact that the flushing will make the plant think it is dying and help the buds?


It's got duel purposes IMO.


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## KaleoXxX (Sep 7, 2009)

wow fractus, i am truly impressed 

when are you planning your harvest for? and do you have a magnifying glass of some kind to check you trichs? i like the super stoney couch lock of a fully ripe bud, but its all up to your preferences

i have to give you all the rep in the world, because this is the best first (successful ) grow ive ever followed


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## littlegrower2004 (Sep 7, 2009)

Fractus said:


> Today, just after I watered her:


you do know that getting water on the buds is bad thing right? thats an easy way to ruin ur first female. it would suck to end up with moldy rotten bud.


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## Fractus (Sep 7, 2009)

> That's what flushing is, just giving her straight water...maybe some molasses...not sure what you mean?


I was under the impression that flushing was the act of running a bunch of excess water through the soil to rinse it all out until clean water is coming out of the drain holes. The method I liked most for doing this was to fill a bathtub up with water and then lower the plant "pot" down into the water until is seeps in the holes and then lift it out and let all the water and drain, and do it a couple times until your probably yellow water drains out clear. And the soil will be soaked and the plant will droop because of it, but within a couple days it will use up all that water and be stronger and and have 100% clean dirt. All I'm going to give it from now on is water anyway, i give it 2litres every second day for the most part, unless the soil is dry before that. That one single plant drinks a LOT of water.

Thanks again for the support KaleoXxX, I don't have a magnifying glass but I will get one. Maybe even today. I'm expecting that 2 full weeks from now my buds will be big ang sticky and mature, every day they are significantly bigger. She really likes her house 

I've had several private messages asking specific details because people want to construct their own box just like mine lol, it's like I'm revolutionizing mini grow ops for those on tight budgets with limited space. This grow seems to have attracted a lot of attention. Thanks again to e eryone who has helped me along the way. My advice for anyone else trying a first grow is to do some reading first. Even reading this whole thread would give you sufficient knowledge to grow a successful plant I think. A lot of useful info has been posted here.


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## Fractus (Sep 7, 2009)

No lol I didn't know it was bad. If anything I thought it would be good. It's just water, and in direct light. It hasn't seemed to hurt anything... the water is gone off of the plant itself after less than an hour. Should I avoid getting water on them?


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## KaleoXxX (Sep 7, 2009)

littlegrower2004 said:


> you do know that getting water on the buds is bad thing right? thats an easy way to ruin ur first female. it would suck to end up with moldy rotten bud.


i assume its dry in his box, and he did say it was JUST after watering. honestly, with all what green, could you think of a good way to water thoroughly without getting the buds atleast a little wet?


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## GypsyBush (Sep 7, 2009)

littlegrower2004 said:


> you do know that getting water on the buds is bad thing right? Thats an easy way to ruin ur first female. It would suck to end up with moldy rotten bud.


word....

I'd hate to grow mold...

NEVER wet you buds...


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## Fractus (Sep 7, 2009)

yeah it's damn near impossible to water around those buds. They look so healthy though and i watered right on top of them every single time. I don't really have a choice. That pic was taken immediately after I watered so you can see it, but it doesn't sit long. Most runs right off and the rest evaporates quickly.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 7, 2009)

Fractus said:


> No lol I didn't know it was bad. If anything I thought it would be good. It's just water, and in direct light. It hasn't seemed to hurt anything... the water is gone off of the plant itself after less than an hour. Should I avoid getting water on them?



ALL KINDS OF BAD Bro....

The droplets will act as magnifying lenses and burn your buds, leaves...

also .. MOLD is a big issue.... let me say BIG again...

Even the folks that foliar feed stop doing it once buds form...


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## GypsyBush (Sep 7, 2009)

Fractus said:


> yeah it's damn near impossible to water around those buds. They look so healthy though and i watered right on top of them every single time. I don't really have a choice. That pic was taken immediately after I watered so you can see it, but it doesn't sit long. Most runs right off and the rest evaporates quickly.


Oh well...

go with what you know...


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## potlike (Sep 7, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I've had several private messages asking specific details because people want to construct their own box just like mine lol, it's like I'm revolutionizing mini grow ops for those on tight budgets with limited space. This grow seems to have attracted a lot of attention. Thanks again to e eryone who has helped me along the way. My advice for anyone else trying a first grow is to do some reading first. Even reading this whole thread would give you sufficient knowledge to grow a successful plant I think. A lot of useful info has been posted here.


No offense, but you're not really doing anything that hasn't been done before. While I don't know of another styrofoam container it has probably been done before. Many others have used rubbermaid storage totes with success and you can get those for $3 also. I did, however, find the cereal box carbon filter creative. I applaud you at learning experience here, except making statements like that are just wrong man.

You're learning quite a bit and that's what it's all about and yes while learning others will learn from your successes and failures. Believe me everyone has plenty of both in this-some more than others. I've had my share.

Btw the proper way to water is into the soil and let the roots soak up the water- not on the buds. If you had drainage holes in your case... which you should.. you are supposed to water until it leaks out the drainage holes anyway.

Flushing just means no nutrients, just plain water and about 3 to 1 up to 5 to 1 ratio of water to soil... ie 3 gallons of water to 1 gallon of soil up to 5 gallons of water to 1 gallon of soil. Generally only want to do it when there is excessive nutrient burn and if you are using harsh chems you may consider using only water 1-2 weeks before harvest so you're not smoking the chemicals.


-potlike


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## Fractus (Sep 7, 2009)

Ok from now on I'll try to avoid soaking my buds as much as possible when watering. Thanks though, very useful tip! Good to know!

Back to flushing for a minute though, the method i described above is what I thought flushing meant. 
Google -> Define: Flush = cause to flow or flood with or as if with water; "flush the meadows"
I just thought it meant to literally flush and clean all the dirt. Not just straight water for 2 weeks (but I was going to do that anyway).


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## KaleoXxX (Sep 7, 2009)

ive heard to use 2-3times as much water in a flush as your pot hols soil, so a 1 gal pot would get 3 gal of water. this seems like alot to me and without drainage holes 3 gal of water would be plant suicide.

i think your buds will be fine if you only use plain water for the last few weeks, since you havent used much nutrients anyways


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## potlike (Sep 7, 2009)

KaleoXxX said:


> ive heard to use 2-3times as much water in a flush as your pot hols soil, so a 1 gal pot would get 3 gal of water. this seems like alot to me and without drainage holes 3 gal of water would be plant suicide.
> 
> i think your buds will be fine if you only use plain water for the last few weeks, since you havent used much nutrients anyways


Most people use 3-5x Kaleo as 2x is not enough, but you actually gave good advice considering his setup with no drainage holes. Although I mentioned it in the post I forgot to take that into account. Considering that I'd maybe go about 2.5 to 1 ratio.

Instead I'd maybe get a container to sit your cooler in and poke holes in the bottom of the cooler.

+rep to you Kaleo for catching... 

-potlike


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## Fractus (Sep 7, 2009)

potlike said:


> No offense, but you're not really doing anything that hasn't been done before. While I don't know of another styrofoam container it has probably been done before. Many others have used rubbermaid storage totes with success and you can get those for $3 also. I did, however, find the cereal box carbon filter creative. I applaud you at learning experience here, except making statements like that are just wrong man.
> 
> You're learning quite a bit and that's what it's all about and yes while learning others will learn from your successes and failures. Believe me everyone has plenty of both in this-some more than others. I've had my share.
> -potlike


I understand where you're coming from but I feel diffferently and this site is about opinions. You're entitled to yours that's fine, you don't need to agree with me on that. And I don't mean any disrespect, but I personally know that I have inspired a lot of people with the ingenuity of this box all around. Yes people have used rubbermaid containers, which is similar. But from my first idea to where I am now has changed a lot and I'm willing to bet that using this wicked-white styrofoam will outgrow one in rubbermaid (assuming soil, bulbs, and watering, and feeding were the same). Maybe I should test it just to prove a point and setup another identical grow using another building material such as a rubbermaid and see if it can retain the light like this does. But it's not so much about the styrofoam, it's just the design that I was referring to. People just want results like mine on their first grows too. And I'm giving them blueprints and making it easy. I'm not suggesting that my grow is unheard of, or that it's any better than anyone else's. I'm just glad that I was able to contribute to the weedgrowing society and help others. Just trying to make things simpler and cheaper for other new growers that lack experience like me for example.


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## Fractus (Sep 7, 2009)

I will make drain holes and have a catch tray for sure. That's no problem. I appreciate all the help guys. I've never had answers come so quickly before. I have email's comin out the asshole from Rollitup haha.


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## KaleoXxX (Sep 7, 2009)

potlike said:


> Most people use 3-5x Kaleo as 2x is not enough, but you actually gave good advice considering his setup with no drainage holes. Although I mentioned it in the post I forgot to take that into account. Considering that I'd maybe go about 2.5 to 1 ratio.
> 
> Instead I'd maybe get a container to sit your cooler in and poke holes in the bottom of the cooler.
> 
> ...


i think he doesnt really know how much soil is in the container because its not a measured pot, its just filled with soil. on that not ill repeat my idea that, since he hasnt been using much in the way of nutes, if he gives them a few good weeks without, a flush wont really be necisary. actually it would be more like a gradual 3 week flush

and fractus, dont worry about being defensive, your growbox is verry original and well thought of. its better than a rubermaid because all that white in there acts as one hell of a reflective surface. i hope alot of people copy your idea, because youve proven its a great one


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## Fractus (Sep 7, 2009)

I'm really thinking I will make a few small drainholes and then flood it with water in the bathtub and let it all run out, and after that just water as normally. Then I'll know my soil is clean  And I can't help but be defensive lol, I just want people to read this thread and think "this is a good idea, I think I'll try it" Instead of reading another guy's post who thinks it's nothing special, and decided to not try it because too many people shot it down. Results are the important part though. If I can prove it works it really doesn't matter what anyone says. After all it's a learning process and this was my experiment. I wasn't really expecting a plant like this at all to be honest. It surprises me everyday.


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## potlike (Sep 7, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I'm really thinking I will make a few small drainholes and then flood it with water in the bathtub and let it all run out, and after that just water as normally. Then I'll know my soil is clean  And I can't help but be defensive lol, I just want people to read this thread and think "this is a good idea, I think I'll try it" Instead of reading another guy's post who thinks it's nothing special, and decided to not try it because too many people shot it down. Results are the important part though. If I can prove it works it really doesn't matter what anyone says. After all it's a learning process and this was my experiment. I wasn't really expecting a plant like this at all to be honest. It surprises me everyday.


Watering as normal will still drain water out the bottom so you will need something under to catch the drainage from normal waterings. 

I never said it wouldn't work in fact I know it will because of the reflective nature of styrofoam.

My largest concern is someone with less technical understanding that tries to scale the design up by using larger and HOTTER lights. It just needs to be stated that the styrofoam material isn't the best suited for heat and that one needs to be safe when building something like this.

Do you want to be responsible when someone with not a whole lot of common sense decides to try your design and burns down their house? While this board has a large number of experienced growers and others with common sense there are also quite a few out there without those advantages and have made some dumb mistakes.

You state the advantages of using styrofoam but you should acknowledge the shortcomings and maybe even put a disclaimer that it works for you, but for others to be aware of the risks. That way atleast people know they are playing with fire and to treat it with respect for fear of being burnt. That's only being socially responsible.


-potlike


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## Fractus (Sep 7, 2009)

> Watering as normal will still drain water out the bottom so you will need something under to catch the drainage from normal waterings.


Ok. It shouldn't be a problem for me to find a catch tray of some sort around here lol.



> My largest concern is someone with less technical understanding that tries to scale the design up by using larger and HOTTER lights. It just needs to be stated that the styrofoam material isn't the best suited for heat and that one needs to be safe when building something like this.


I COMPLETELY agree. Although if you build it yourself you should be making sure it is safe on your own, that's common sense. But I know there are people who always need to take things a step farther and don't look into it first. In which case they throw a 250w HPS on top of a styrofoam box and melt it to a puddle or maybe even ignite it! This is strictly a CFL design for sure. Thank you for making a point of that. P.S. This is my disclaimer. I'm not responsible for people who screw up replicating this. Do it at your own risk, be smart and safe


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## Fractus (Sep 7, 2009)

I just took a 2 litre juice bottle and modified a Powerade cap to fit it so I can aim my water and not hit my buds


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 7, 2009)

There are two schools of thought when it comes to flushing...

Using 2-3 times the container size for the last two weeks, or using the same amount of water as normal for the last two weeks. Both with no nutes.

I prefer to not change my amount of water. Doing so just makes the plant take a long time to dry out. You can only flush 2-3 times in 14 days.

Whereas with my plants, I want the gallon gallon containers with 1 gallon of water per feeding, every 3-4 days. So when I flush, I will be able to hit them about 5 times each with a one gallon flush.

I have good drainage and normally get 10-20% water run-off anyways, so I feel no need to dump 12-18 gallons of water through my plant and then wait for 10 days or more for it to dry out.

In my experience, you can flush adequately using the same amount of water as normal, just with NO NUTES at all for at least 14 days straight.

That would give you 7 flushings the way you water. PLENTY.

And you avoid over saturating and over watering your roots and stunting its progress, IMO, compared to the other method described here.

Either way, its up to you, but I would definately put some drain holes in, otherwise you aren't flushing the soil, as there is no where for the salts to go. They just remain at the bottom of the container if there is no drainage.


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## Fractus (Sep 7, 2009)

I just gave her a nice flush by filling the tub with water, poked several drain holes all around and submersed my bottom cooler up to the soil line. The water saturated my dirt by entering the drain holes then I raised the box and let it all drain, then dunked it two more times for a total of three flushes. By the third one my water was clear. And from now on I'm just going to water probably a gallon every few days as she needs it. I expect her to be drooping tomorrow from the flush. At least I know she's clean now. I'm using a large cookie sheet underneath as a catch tray.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 8, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I just gave her a nice flush by filling the tub with water, poked several drain holes all around and submersed my bottom cooler up to the soil line. The water saturated my dirt by entering the drain holes then I raised the box and let it all drain, then dunked it two more times for a total of three flushes. By the third one my water was clear. And from now on I'm just going to water probably a gallon every few days as she needs it. I expect her to be drooping tomorrow from the flush. At least I know she's clean now. I'm using a large cookie sheet underneath as a catch tray.


....

Well that's different...

The point is though to completely flush the salt out...which you will fail to completely accomplish by rinsing it as you did


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## Fractus (Sep 8, 2009)

How so? What makes you think dumping excessive water in and letting it drain out would do anything differently?


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 8, 2009)

Fractus said:


> How so? What makes you think dumping excessive water in and letting it drain out would do anything differently?


Well which gets you cleaner, a shower or a bath?

If you soak if your own dirtiness so to speak, you will be less clean than if it were rinsed from you by fresh, clean water.

Make sense?

Imagine the salts rising up and then draining down. The container is submerged in water still and the salts have no where to go, besides back down to the bottom of the container.

Sure, some will be rinsed away. But it would be more effective to run the water through.


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## Fractus (Sep 8, 2009)

Pictures taken with a cellphone through a magnifying glass from today before I flushed


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## Fractus (Sep 8, 2009)

I disagree. Salt is soluble in water, correct? Clean water rushes in from the bottom and the salt mixes with it and ionizes and all that shit. And then when I pick it up it all pours back out yellowish. Dissipates into a bathtub holding gallons and gallons and GALLONS of water, so that the salt concentration would be next to nothing still in the whole tub of water. And rinsing again and again, I know it works fine. You can find it in many other places on this site. A shower doesn't surround everything like a bath does. In showers, water takes the easiest route possible to get from where it entered the soil to where it gets out. I bet you miss places entirely, while I'm sure I sucked all the salts out of all the soil. Just another matter of opinion. Neither way is wrong I wouldn't think. I think variation in results based on using one flush method or the other would be minimal, more than likely invisible.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 8, 2009)

Fractus said:


> How so? What makes you think dumping excessive water in and letting it drain out would do anything differently?





Fractus said:


> I disagree. Salt is soluble in water, correct? Clean water rushes in from the bottom and the salt mixes with it and ionizes and all that shit. And then when I pick it up it all pours back out yellowish. Dissipates into a bathtub holding gallons and gallons and GALLONS of water, so that the salt concentration would be next to nothing still in the whole tub of water. And rinsing again and again, I know it works fine. You can find it in many other places on this site. A shower doesn't surround everything like a bath does. In showers, water takes the easiest route possible to get from where it entered the soil to where it gets out. I bet you miss places entirely, while I'm sure I sucked all the salts out of all the soil. Just another matter of opinion. Neither way is wrong I wouldn't think. I think variation in results based on using one flush method or the other would be minimal, more than likely invisible.


I have never heard of anyone doing this.

You can agree or disagree. For flushing, there is a right way, and many other less effective ways.

I have given you the info to do it the best way, for the best results. What you choose to do based on your own theories or hypothesis is really up to you. I speak from experience.


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## Fractus (Sep 8, 2009)

I read on threads months ago about this method, I didn't just make it up, although I'm sure it wouldn't surprise anyone if I did lol. I just looked around and can't find the thread that I learned it from anymore :/ I assure you it is somewhere on Rollitup though. Have you ever tried it before? If not then you can't really say your way is better and you know from experience, because you've only experienced one way. I just know based on chemistry that what I just did will take the salt out. Maybe your way is more effective, but since I'm going to be watering normally for the rest of her life anyway and letting water drain out, I'm sure it won't matter how I did my initial flush.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 8, 2009)

I am not saying your way is ineffective. It did do some of what you wanted I am sure.

Just not as effective as mine. And yes I have tried different methods and settled on this one, because it's just the best way to do it in soil.

Flushing isn't all about salts. And salt is water soluble at different rates. One flush is not going to completely remove all these built up minerals and such either.


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## sweet island skunk09 (Sep 8, 2009)

looks like your finally gonna get some home grow from this box


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## Fractus (Sep 8, 2009)

Yeah dude. I can see the trichs without a magnifying glass too, even on most of the leaves that come out of the buds. I'm friggin excited lol. Water is still soaked from last night's flush but she isn't dropping a bit.


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## potlike (Sep 9, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I disagree. Salt is soluble in water, correct? Clean water rushes in from the bottom and the salt mixes with it and ionizes and all that shit. And then when I pick it up it all pours back out yellowish. Dissipates into a bathtub holding gallons and gallons and GALLONS of water, so that the salt concentration would be next to nothing still in the whole tub of water. And rinsing again and again, I know it works fine. You can find it in many other places on this site. A shower doesn't surround everything like a bath does. In showers, water takes the easiest route possible to get from where it entered the soil to where it gets out. I bet you miss places entirely, while I'm sure I sucked all the salts out of all the soil. Just another matter of opinion. Neither way is wrong I wouldn't think. I think variation in results based on using one flush method or the other would be minimal, more than likely invisible.


Sorry it doesn't work that way... soil acts as a retention center for water.... it holds it and sucks it up like a sponge. yes SOME EXCESS DRIPS out but ever hear of OVERWATERING? <<<<< Yes you can do that. This isn't a matter of opinion this is a MATTER OF FACT.

-potlike


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## Fractus (Sep 9, 2009)

potlike-

I still disagree because what I said makes more sense than what you said. My facts are these: I ran a ton of water through my soil and cleaned it from yellow running out my drain holes, to crystal clear water. I know I cleaned it, that is a FACT for you. And if you're saying saturating the soil from the bottom is overwatering, but saturating it from the top by pouring 5 times as much volume of water as soil isn't overwatering, then I'm not sure how much I value your advice. The purpose of it is to flush, after that, I water. I cleaned my dirt and it's going to stay clean because I'm not putting anything else back in it except clean water. I don't understand why you need to try to find fault with everything. My plant speaks for itself, it is still healthy as ever even after my flush.



> yes SOME EXCESS DRIPS out but ever hear of OVERWATERING? <<<<< Yes you can do that. This isn't a matter of opinion this is a MATTER OF FACT.


I appreciate help when it is helpful. But this just sounds like you're trying to show me that I'm retarded and because you have been growing longer that your way is 100% better than mine regardless of what I say. It's cool that you are eager to try and give me advice at all, but this isn't the way to get anyone to listen and understand. Prove your point logically and politely and I'll more than likely be right behind you.


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## SimplyBaked (Sep 9, 2009)

Fractus...I applaud you for never losing ur cool through this whole thread! Everytime someone comes at you with something, u come back with straight facts! Not taking anything away from the Vets here at all, but to see a newbie back his shit up as much as u do...is like music to my...well eyes i guess


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## redivider (Sep 9, 2009)

hey you (fractus) said that one of your plants reached ur lights and burned right?? yeah, happened to me this long weekend... what should I do? only a little bit burned but it's all brown n shit... should I cut it off or let it fall off?


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## potlike (Sep 9, 2009)

Ok, I guess when I posted this earlier it didn't post for some reason. Problem is it isn't straight facts that he's coming back with it is mere speculation. When you flush you let the runoff go to waste..... the way he is suggesting you let the plants bathe in the excess water. What is going to happen is the roots will wick up all that excess water and the plant will get a lil droopy and suffer from overwatering. It is fixable but again if you let your plants bathe in water for soil grows you are just asking for trouble.


-potlike


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 9, 2009)

potlike said:


> Ok, I guess when I posted this earlier it didn't post for some reason. Problem is it isn't straight facts that he's coming back with it is mere speculation. When you flush you let the runoff go to waste..... the way he is suggesting you let the plants bathe in the excess water. What is going to happen is the roots will wick up all that excess water and the plant will get a lil droopy and suffer from overwatering. It is fixable but again if you let your plants bathe in water for soil grows you are just asking for trouble.
> 
> 
> -potlike


Not to mention you are allowing your plants soak in chlorinated water, that is not ph'ed, as I heard you mentioned.


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## GrowTech (Sep 9, 2009)

These newbs and their theories on flushing. I'm just glad nobody is trying to do that to my plants


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## southernsmoke23 (Sep 9, 2009)

Damn thats just one plants. 
Kudos to you bro


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## GrowTech (Sep 9, 2009)

southernsmoke23 said:


> Damn thats just one plants.
> Kudos to you bro


Yeah would be a lot to lose if you fuck her up


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## Fractus (Sep 9, 2009)

This isn't my "theory" on flushing. I found it on THIS SITE and people with a lot more posts than most of you were backing it and saying it's fine! It was an educational post from experienced growers and people thanked him for the idea and people posted how well it worked. I can't find it now because it was an older thread, and I don't remember who wrote it. I don't really care if you don't believe me either, but I wouldn't have tried it if I didn't have some reason behind it. But seeing as how nobody here used reference to trying it themselves and having bad effects on their plant, I'm going to assume you shooting down this idea is just a noob theory as well. It worked for me. That's it..

Now, potlike- Listen closely. If water is draining out the bottom, then your soil is holding all the water it can hold. So if you dump 5 gallons of water through your one gallon pot to flush it, and 3 gallons runs back out, you soils is Soaked. Just as soaked as if you were to dunk the whole thing. Like you said, soil retains water, but it has a peak. Either way you choose to flush your soil is going to hit that peak of maximum water retention. Now if you're curious how this other flushing method makes sense, listen here:

Lets say I have salt in my dirst, at full concentration. Since it is water soluble it will mix with water (not stay with the soil, and split up into Na+ and Cl- ions(even if it isn't table salt, ionic compounds all work the same way). Now lets say my box filled up with 4 gallons of water when dunked. But the soil retains 2 gallons on its own. So the salt is now disolved into 4 gallons. I lift the box up and 2 gallons of SALT water drains out. That drainage water mixes with lets say 45-50 gallons (typical bathtub) clean water, so that salt is SO DISPERSED in tons of water it is invisible. Like I said before. So I use that ALMOST clean water and dunk again. Now there is 4 gallons of water in the box with HALF as much salt, all mixed up. I lift and drain. Now there is 1/4 of the salt in the box. Lets try again shall we? Dunk and drain again and now in my box mathematically I cleared 7/8 of all salt/chemical content. Whatever's left I expect her to use or to be rinsed out in later waterings. If you STILL have questions feel free to ask, but I'm telling you this works and I wasn't the one to come up with it.

I have fed my plant tap water since day 1, I have never PHed before, don't even have a PH tester of any sort. And I have never had a problem, and probably never will because my water may be chlorinated, but nothing like what you guys have in your imagination. I live in a small city with very good water treatment and you can't even taste anything in the water. I can't imagine there is enough chemicals in it to do anything (plants OR humans) any harm at all. I don't know much about water treatment standards but if it your tap water kills your plant then I would move.


redivider-
I don't really know lol. With mine, I realized height was an issue, so I cut the top right off with a clean cut and stopped her from growing up, now she grows out. Try asking one of these guys who had that problem before.


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## potlike (Sep 9, 2009)

Fractus said:


> This isn't my "theory" on flushing. I found it on THIS SITE and people with a lot more posts than most of you were backing it and saying it's fine! It was an educational post from experienced growers and people thanked him for the idea and people posted how well it worked. I can't find it now because it was an older thread, and I don't remember who wrote it. I don't really care if you don't believe me either, but I wouldn't have tried it if I didn't have some reason behind it. But seeing as how nobody here used reference to trying it themselves and having bad effects on their plant, I'm going to assume you shooting down this idea is just a noob theory as well. It worked for me. That's it..
> 
> Now, potlike- Listen closely. If water is draining out the bottom, then your soil is holding all the water it can hold. So if you dump 5 gallons of water through your one gallon pot to flush it, and 3 gallons runs back out, you soils is Soaked. Just as soaked as if you were to dunk the whole thing. Like you said, soil retains water, but it has a peak. Either way you choose to flush your soil is going to hit that peak of maximum water retention. Now if you're curious how this other flushing method makes sense, listen here:
> 
> ...



<catnips> you can lead a man to knowledge but you can't make him think 

Just because someone has a lot of posts doesn't make them intelligent....as I said before there are some really great growers on here that have been here for years and then there are complete moron. Because you are still arguing this point you have proven to me that you sir are an idiot. Good luck when your plants die.


-potlike


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## Fractus (Sep 9, 2009)

Hahahahahahahhahahahahahhaha
See ya later man.


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## GrowTech (Sep 9, 2009)

Fractus said:


> This isn't my "theory" on flushing. I found it on THIS SITE and people with a lot more posts than most of you were backing it and saying it's fine! It was an educational post from experienced growers and people thanked him for the idea and people posted how well it worked. I can't find it now because it was an older thread, and I don't remember who wrote it. I don't really care if you don't believe me either, but I wouldn't have tried it if I didn't have some reason behind it. But seeing as how nobody here used reference to trying it themselves and having bad effects on their plant, I'm going to assume you shooting down this idea is just a noob theory as well. It worked for me. That's it..


 There is only like 10 active members out of 160,000 with more posts than I have, regardless though, post count has nothing to do with experience. I'm really curious what thread you read this in, so if you ever see it again, send me a link. Also, not minding the pH is bad... maybe even holding you back from producing more bud.


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## thatdjsnow (Sep 9, 2009)

Fractus! Wow I havent been on much lately, ive missed out huh?? 

Looks awesome man - i need to post some pics of my plants - but my pc is under maintenance haha.


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## Fractus (Sep 9, 2009)

Dude I'm honoured to have a vet checking out my shit haha. Gypsy likes to keep an eye on me as well which is cool, like my guardian angel watching me in case I do something stupid. And he hasn't completely frowned on the way I did my flush yet so I think I'm safe haha. And I'm more than satisfied with my buds. Take a look today. No issues after the flush, she is LOVING life 36 hours later.


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## potlike (Sep 9, 2009)

GrowTech said:


> There is only like 10 active members out of 160,000 with more posts than I have, regardless though, post count has nothing to do with experience. I'm really curious what thread you read this in, so if you ever see it again, send me a link. Also, not minding the pH is bad... maybe even holding you back from producing more bud.


not to mention his Salt(sodium) mixing with CHLORINATED water.... if I'm not mistaken you just did a good job making sodium chloride which is a component in weedkiller.

rofl


-potlike


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## Fractus (Sep 9, 2009)

potlike said:


> <catnips> have proven to me that you sir are an idiot. Good luck when your plants die.
> 
> 
> -potlike


 hahahah again.


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## Fractus (Sep 9, 2009)

Sodium Chloride IS SALT! Genius. Google it. Your opinions or FACTs are no longer welcome here. Minimally chlorinated water is no different than mixing salt with mineral water or distilled water or whatever else. It may throw your chemistry readings off a bit when doing precise measurements, which is why they use distilled water. If you have a sore throat you can mix salt with chlorinated and gargle it to ease the pain and disinfect. You are not gargling weedkiller lmao. Nice try though. Keep trying to stump me if you want but the fact is this: I'm not doing anything wrong.


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## potlike (Sep 9, 2009)

Fractus said:


> hahahah again.


where's that link at? Oh wait it doesn't exist because you made it up.... exactly like I thought.


-potlike


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 9, 2009)

GrowTech said:


> There is only like 10 active members out of 160,000 with more posts than I have, regardless though, post count has nothing to do with experience. I'm really curious what thread you read this in, so if you ever see it again, send me a link. Also, not minding the pH is bad... maybe even holding you back from producing more bud.


Listen well Fractus.

You say you have never had a problem with ph...how would you know if you never checked it?

Your ph could be ok in the sense that you are not having VISABLE signs of stress, but your plants still may not be uptaking nutes/h2o as efficently as they should.

It seems like you just want to do things your own way and then use the logic you used to arrive at that method as "facts."

Like assuming you "flushed" your plant with one "dunking."

If that was the case, why wouldn't we all just flush once a few days prior to harvest and call it good? The FACT is, to really flush your plant correctly, you have to run water through it, not dunk it.

So, like I have said, before you defend yourself with "facts," make sure they aren't just your own opinions based on your own logic.

Oh yeah and Gypsy wouldn't critique your flushing because he doesn't flush. Nor does he grow in soil. So just b/c he hasn't said you are wrong, doesn't mean you aren't.


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## GrowTech (Sep 9, 2009)

Dunking your soil in water for a little bit does not remove the salts or built up nutrients... It merely displaces them briefly.

Additionally... If you're not measuring your pH its likely your plant isn't receiving its full nutrient uptake, so flushing probably isn't that necessary to be honest...


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## Fractus (Sep 9, 2009)

I looked for an hour to try and find where I found this method but I can't find it. When I do I will post it for sure. You can believe I made it up if you want, I really don't care.

All I know is what's visible. I don't think it's having O2 or nute absorbency problems because she's growing like she's on steroids and I don't have any signs of deficiencies or any problems whatsoever. I don't have any signs of an off pH. I'm sure it isn't perfect but whatever my pH is at it clearly isn't doing her any harm. I also know that I did 3 full flushes by dunking (not one, bigjesse1922).

When you bring facts here to explain how what I said is false then I will believe you, but so far your only reasoning is that your way is better because you said so and a shower gets you cleaner than a bath. So are you saying baths are wrong?

GrowTech, can you to explain what that yellow water coming out of by drain holes contained, if it wasn't salt and built up nutrients?


> If you're not measuring your pH its likely your plant isn't receiving its full nutrient uptake,


Measuring my pH won't make it any better if there isn't a problem with it. Who's to say my pH isn't at an acceptable level right now? Until my plant tells me otherwise I'm going to let her go. Also, don't plants adjust to their environments, just like people? If I grew her all the way up to now at 6.1, then 6.1 is what it is used to and anything other than that would seem abnormal to it, would it not?


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 9, 2009)

You didn't do three full flushes, you didn't even do one.

You think you know more about growing than anyone I have ever come in contact with, especially considering this is your first freakin grow (in which you managed to burn off the top of your plant).

I have given you plenty of facts and you have ignored them.


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## bigbudjohn420 (Sep 9, 2009)

well man from the looks you might get a half oz but hoe far into flowering are you and what nuts are u using


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## potlike (Sep 9, 2009)

You're doing a few bad things... you are over watering you will create nutrient lock in a few days because of excess salt... you can potentially create sodium chlorate (weed killer). Buddy I've backed up everything I have stated as facts but here are some references for you:

1. https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/85122-flushing-salt-out-soil-weekly.html

2. http://boards.cannabis.com/organic-growing/107442-flushing-question.html

3. http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37385

4. http://books.google.com/books?id=WRNNS2TUB3YC&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=salt+marijuana+flushing&source=bl&ots=JKnvHgPzUT&sig=rumUd0kzzZfy6kCHtwpMIP_U9Y0&hl=en&ei=-1eoSrqAEpSinQf1idWWBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6#v=onepage&q=&f=false

5. http://www.marijuanagrowing.eu/flushing-soil-compost-t37162.html

6. http://books.google.com/books?id=rnwwxoOb3gUC&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=salt+marijuana+flushing&source=bl&ots=6hTHmZHGmo&sig=W5T221nw1y7M6aroPPOTunXZ1Ks&hl=en&ei=TFmoSrDFLYzSM8Sy3KII&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=salt marijuana flushing&f=false

7. http://forum.grasscity.com/sick-plants-problems/95026-periodic-flushing-clean-out-salt-buildup.html

8. http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/showthread.php?p=95438

9. http://books.google.com/books?id=fERzFsZhdxYC&pg=PA251&lpg=PA251&dq=salt+marijuana+flushing&source=bl&ots=t0StcrNJVo&sig=vs2AgyBWAHgRTM9StloqTijpaLo&hl=en&ei=TFmoSrDFLYzSM8Sy3KII&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7#v=onepage&q=salt marijuana flushing&f=false

10. http://books.google.com/books?id=o29Wewf10ZQC&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=salt+marijuana+flushing&source=bl&ots=B1z5hFWD4W&sig=rhjum9WVPgb3d0AFe2kW2aDMaB8&hl=en&ei=61moSs3gBIr8MIzktLEP&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9#v=onepage&q=salt marijuana flushing&f=false

I have 10 references that back up my claim that salt is bad and what you're doing is WRONG. How many more do you want? Have you produced one yet- no...

stop being a fucktard and do research before you open your mouth.

-potlike


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## GrowTech (Sep 9, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I looked for an hour to try and find where I found this method but I can't find it. When I do I will post it for sure. You can believe I made it up if you want, I really don't care.
> 
> All I know is what's visible. I don't think it's having O2 or nute absorbency problems because she's growing like she's on steroids and I don't have any signs of deficiencies or any problems whatsoever. I don't have any signs of an off pH. I'm sure it isn't perfect but whatever my pH is at it clearly isn't doing her any harm. I also know that I did 3 full flushes by dunking (not one, bigjesse1922).
> 
> ...


I can tell just by looking at the plant that it's not as good as it could be. Also, a plants ability to uptake nutrients at certain pH levels does not adapt. If the pH is off, the plant will never be able to uptake the nutrients. The plant doesn't treat the pH as a channel, and just change the channel to uptake the desired nutrients. You don't seem to understand how this works.


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## potlike (Sep 9, 2009)

GrowTech said:


> I can tell just by looking at the plant that it's not as good as it could be. Also, a plants ability to uptake nutrients at certain pH levels does not adapt. If the pH is off, the plant will never be able to uptake the nutrients. The plant doesn't treat the pH as a channel, and just change the channel to uptake the desired nutrients. You don't seem to understand how this works.


Don't worry GT supernoob is always right and knows more than everyone on this forum. 

-potlike


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 9, 2009)

GrowTech said:


> You don't seem to understand how this works.


I concur.

And what's shitty about that is several fold.

First and foremost, Fractus is a really smart guy and could be an excellent grower.

Second, I have really, along with MANY of us here, tried HARD to help you. Take it as praise; my HS football coach told me one time, "If I didn't think you were damn good and could be damn better, I wouldn't waste my breath yellin at you!"

And third, you are in a crucial phase in your grow. Doing things correctly or incorrectly now will have the most pronounced results for you compared to any other stage in the process. You have a chance to have a successful harvest on your first go, something not everyone has done. 

I just wish you would drop your sense of superiority and realize that even though you are obviously intelligent, true intelligence is measured not by what you know, but by your ability to recognize that which you do not.


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## potlike (Sep 9, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> I concur.
> 
> And what's shitty about that is several fold.
> 
> ...


I could not have said it better myself. 

-potlike


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## Fractus (Sep 9, 2009)

> I can tell just by looking at the plant that it's not as good as it could be. Also, a plants ability to uptake nutrients at certain pH levels does not adapt. If the pH is off, the plant will never be able to uptake the nutrients. The plant doesn't treat the pH as a channel, and just change the channel to uptake the desired nutrients. You don't seem to understand how this works


You are right, I didn't understand how it worked and thank you for the explanation. I was really hoping someone would tell me something useful instead of just telling me I'm wrong. About the pH, is it worth the money to to buy a tester? Will the difference in end result for my plant be enough that it was worth spending that cash on it? I read that a good one would run me nearly 30-70$. Where I come from that's at 5-10 grams of dope lol. Why does nobody else seem to think my plant is having trouble absorbing nutrients? It seems healthy to me, and trichomes are everywhere! Even the leaves around the buds are covered..

I'm not here for sharing life morals though, this is the internet and it's my source of information. I do reasearch before doing things. My research tells me that what I did will work just fine for cleaning out salts. And not one of your sites says that what I did was wrong. Actually, did you even read your own links? The first one states that flushing prevents nutrient lock... And I didn't overwater, I rinsed, I just did it from the bottom instead of the top. What's the big deal? Either way saturates the soil and they will both equally water it. Doing a big flush like that is intentionally overwatering for the purpose of cleaning the soil isn't it?



> true intelligence is measured not by what you know, but by your ability to recognize that which you do not


I believe that true intelligence is measured by your knowledge and common sense, paired with the ability to apply that knowledge to real-life situations. I used high school chemistry to figure out that the way I flushed WILL remove salt. Someone enlighten me on why what I did is wrong, but look it up before you say anything so I don't need to argue points like "it won't take the salt out" because if you read, you will find that chemically it will take the salt out because salt and other fertilizer ingredients are water soluble.

From your sixth reference:
"Chloride (chlorine) is essential to the use of oxygen in photosynthesis and it necessary for root and leaf cell division. Chloride is vital to increase cellular osmotic pressure, modify stomata regulation and augment plant tissue moisture content. A solution concentration of less than 140 PPM is usually safe for marijuana, but some varieties may show sensitivity when foliage turns pale green and wilts"
I happen to know that my tap water contains significantly less chlorine than 140 PPM and my plant is by no means pale. I'm not worried about my chlorine levels and never have been, nor have I worried about pH for that exact reason. My water is good.

Guys stop shooting at me here and actually help me. I'm not just going to believe you because you say that's the way it is, obviously. I don't know how much you know, or what you've tried. But if you haven't done this and can't prove physically how this is ineffective than stop telling me it's wrong.


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## tonetics87 (Sep 9, 2009)

If you guys don't like this fool just don't post in his thread. Isn't it that simple? Personally, i don't like him simply because he sounds like a pompous douchebag. Regardless of how bright he might be. But that's just me.
He apparently has it all figured out. So just let him be. If his plant survives, then good for him. If it wilts and dies, then you guys can come back, laugh at him, tell him you told him so, and laugh at him some more.

Wouldn't that be fun?


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## Fractus (Sep 9, 2009)

thanks tonetics87, even if you don't like me, thank you for explaining how easy it would be for them to just leave because they are turning a learning thread into a debate and it's a waste of time and energy for both parties. What's done is done, I flushed it one way and you guys do it another way. Even though mine won't hurt it. Just check this thread for days to come and you'll see that evrything is fine. By the way it's almost time to water again because my soil is pretty much dry now. Tomorrow I'd like to try giving it some molasses, if I plan on giving her 1.5 gallons of water, how much molasses should I put it in with it? I won't argue I promise


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 9, 2009)

Dude....you just don't get it...

Salt is water soluble, yes. But it doesn't instantly dissolve.

You can't just dunk a whole container that has been nuted with granular MG nutes 3 times and think that has dissolved all the salt.

I put 1 tsp of my granular Beastie Bloomz in a half gallon of water and it takes 10 minutes to dissolve. And that one feedings worth. 

Also, as SOME of the salt dissolves when you dunk your container, when you lift it back up out of the water, the soil will catch a good amount of the salts in the water.

Think about it. When you nute your plants you usually don't have run off as there was no drainage.

I DO have drainage, and when I water I get 10-25% run off. Do all those water soluble nutes just run out the bottom???

NO! They bond with the soil and feed my plant. Are you getting some of the salt out? Yeah I am sure you are. But to assume that all the salt will just dissolve because its water soluble is false.

If you don't get it now...then I'm done tryin to explain it and your plant can just do with what it has!!


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 9, 2009)

Fractus said:


> thanks tonetics87, even if you don't like me, thank you for explaining how easy it would be for them to just leave because they are turning a learning thread into a debate and it's a waste of time and energy for both parties. What's done is done, I flushed it one way and you guys do it another way. Even though mine won't hurt it. Just check this thread for days to come and you'll see that evrything is fine. By the way it's almost time to water again because my soil is pretty much dry now. Tomorrow I'd like to try giving it some molasses, if I plan on giving her 1.5 gallons of water, how much molasses should I put it in with it? I won't argue I promise


Most of us use 1-2 tablespoons per gallon.

Although I am sure you will disagree....


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## Fractus (Sep 9, 2009)

You should have opened with that instead of waiting this long to give a legitamate explanation. But I do understand. My MG has less trouble dissolving initially so I wouldn't think it would be any different coming back out... When I add a teaspoon of it to a couple litres of water to feed my plant it did dissolve instantly. Didn;t take anymore than 10 seconds, just a little stir and it was mixed with no powder on the bottom. It just made a pale blue solution. I wasn't having any runoff because I had no drain holes, I just didn't overwater so that she could only use what I gave her and when the dirt got dry I watered again. I know drainage is standard for indoor growing I just didn't want it leaking on the floor of my closet and I didn't think it would make a difference, and I'm confident that it didn't make a difference. But now I have drain holes and a catch tray so that's a bonus. Anyway, by putting as much water as I did, in and out, and I did it slowly, plenty of time to dissolve, I think I accomplished the goal of a good flush. My verification was the colour of the drainage. But Im'm going to continue watering normally from now on until harvest, and allow probably 25% drainage, I'm sure that will take care of whatever salt I missed.. 

And 1-2 tablespoons per gallon sounds just fine actually. Thank you.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 9, 2009)

No prob.

If you continue watering normally now until harvest with ph'd h2o with molasses added and get the run off you mentioned, you should indeed flush successfully, you are correct there.

Is there anyway to get some closer shots of the buds?

I may have missed this, but what day of 12/12 are you on?


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## Fractus (Sep 9, 2009)

https://www.rollitup.org/2666455-post815.html


> I'm looking for PROOF guys...
> 
> I'm NOT GONNA take your word for it...
> 
> ...


We all go through the same phases when learning things, you want proof. Even experienced growers once asked the same questions and argued the same points I did and it made them smarter and better growers, and look where they are now.  Just lightening the mood a little with some optimistic philosophy.


This was taken 28 days ago on the 13th of August, the first day I switched to 12/12.






I REALLY want to get some awesome closeups so I can show you guys what I see with my eyes, but I don't have a digital camera. I've taken every picture so far with my cellphone which has terrible optical zoom and it won't focus up close. I have a friend that has a nice camera, I'm going to try to get it from him soon.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 9, 2009)

So its only 28 days into flower??


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## Fractus (Sep 9, 2009)

Yes...is that good or bad? lol


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 9, 2009)

Fractus said:


> Yes...is that good or bad? lol


Well its good or its bad....that all depends on how you handle this comment...

And I am NOT tryin to nit pick you...just help...

But for an indoor soil grow, the MINIMUM number of days of 12/12 (flower) required for a ripe plant is 70.

So you should NOT START FLUSHING!

Quit using MG and its Nitrogen rich ferts. Get something with a low N and higher P and K numbers and continue to feed, water, and let your plant grow!

You only want to flush for the final two weeks or so! If you start flushing now and harvest in two weeks (day 42) your plants WILL NOT have bulked up to nearly their potential, both in terms of yield and trichs.

So keep going! Let those buds fatten up!

Its ok you flushed her once. Its actually great to flush the medium every 2-4 weeks in soil (as hydro growers change their rez out and clean it on about the same time table).

Please...I ASSURE you I am correct on this. I am not tryin to argue or beat down the n00b with no facts. If you want more facts I got em.

Just DON'T SELL YOUR PLANT SHORT! LET HER GROW TILL THE TIME IS RIGHT!

EDIT: Well perhaps 70 is not a "minimum." It is usually about right on. Let's say 8 weeks is minimum, in most every case.


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## Fractus (Sep 10, 2009)

Haha alright. That was very informational. I didn't realize there was an optimum number of days. She just looks so nice I figured in 2 weeks she would be huge enough to harvest. But I still have plenty of space left in the upper compartment since I cut the top off and also raised the lights a while back. I don't see why not. Yeah all this reading about flushing lately has taught me that occasional flushes are good anyway. I guess I should probably feed her tomorrow instead of giving her molasses then  Maybe I can find some good flowering nutes somewhere local. I really don't want to order and wait for Fox Farms, even though I hear it's the best there is. I'll do some browsing tomorrow and see what I can find. But she has come a long way in 28 days for using MG lol. I was told it was shit but I just didn't have much left to spend after building the damn thing.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 10, 2009)

Fractus said:


> Haha alright. That was very informational. I didn't realize there was an optimum number of days. She just looks so nice I figured in 2 weeks she would be huge enough to harvest. But I still have plenty of space left in the upper compartment since I cut the top off and also raised the lights a while back. I don't see why not. Yeah all this reading about flushing lately has taught me that occasional flushes are good anyway. I guess I should probably feed her tomorrow instead of giving her molasses then  Maybe I can find some good flowering nutes somewhere local. I really don't want to order and wait for Fox Farms, even though I hear it's the best there is. I'll do some browsing tomorrow and see what I can find. But she has come a long way in 28 days for using MG lol. I was told it was shit but I just didn't have much left to spend after building the damn thing.


MG isn't all that bad. Its just very easy to burn plants, especially when they are young, when using it.

You should be able to find something at a hardware store like Lowes or Home Depot. Get an All Purpose one though, no 11 - 45 - 65 shit either.

A nice 2-10-8 or something. This is all general to give you an idea, not the optimal dosage per se.

Yes, remember up to 25% of a plant's weight can be formed during the final 2 weeks.

Plus, her trichs haven't started to truly develop like they will have at day 65 or 70, compared to day 45 or so. Not saying there isnt a good amount there...

What I mean is, the trichs will still be mostly clear, maybe a few cloudy. Meaning the weed won't get you as high as if you wait for the trichs to turn half cloudy/amber or so (or maybe it will get you blzed, since you did get high off an infantile male plant! 

Make sense?


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## Fractus (Sep 10, 2009)

I gotcha. I like numbers, by the way. When you give me numbers it will sink right in haha. I also need a way to look closely at those trichs so I will know when it's time to start my final 2 week flush period.

For the record I can hardly call it high when I smoked the male, because I wasn't couch ridden and dazed like a statue. It was just a mild buzz, I felt lightheaded and energetic almost. It was weird. A very strange high, similar to some hash that I smoked before but obviously not as potent. Hash a whole different effect than weed I find.. lol. I also smoked the dried out top section of this female after it spent too much time near the lights :S It was already dried for me though right?  Anyway it had a similar effect as the male, but again it was just early stages of a couple budsites. And they tasted funny too. I blame MG.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 10, 2009)

Yeah well that and the chlorophyll !

That's why ya gotta cur it before ya smoke it!

As far as telling when its done, trich scopes are helpful.

But you also want to look for other signs.

The hairs (pistils) will recede into the calyxes and these same calyxes will swell up and "look done."

My rule is, if it "looks about done," and the trichs match, THEN I start my flush.

And by ABOUT, I mean when the calyxes really start to swell and such as mentioned.

Let it do its thing and just watch, observe what's going on. You will learn a whole lot from your plant.

Well I am off to bed. We can pick this up tomorrow if you'd like.


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## Fractus (Sep 10, 2009)

Sure thing.
I knew about the pistils receding and the calyxes swelling actually. I read that somewhere else. But I can also control it by making the plant think it's dying. Of course if I let it run its own course I'm bound to end up with more in the end so I think that's what I'll do. Thanks, this is a stage of the plant I have never experienced before. I'm almost too excited for my own good lol. I'll be hooked on this for years to come.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 10, 2009)

Fractus said:


> Sure thing.
> I knew about the pistils receding and the calyxes swelling actually. I read that somewhere else. But I can also control it by making the plant think it's dying.


This can be variable.

Certain strains responded differently than others.

Indicas will conform usually, but a sativa may not.

Theoretically though, I would agree.


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## grow1620 (Sep 10, 2009)

wow this has been a very entertaining read. I read bout 90% of it..only skipping some bickering..

lol @ the flushing debate though, got kinda blown outta proportion. I think you did fine the way you did it.
great job, hope you get a huge harvest. 

keep us updated  more pics!


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## Fractus (Sep 10, 2009)

Lights come back on in two hours, I'll take some new pics then. In the meantime I'm going to try and find a decent camera!


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## redivider (Sep 10, 2009)

yeah, he didn't answer your question... i read it's about 1-2 tbsp per gallon... i use less... like .8 tbsp per gallon.... but my plant has bout a gallon of soil....

anyways, i cut one of my plants... it hermied and i just cut it out.... i'm gonna use it for brownies.... it's one that got real burned, well the day after it grew balls, i was gonna see if i could make feminized seeds out of it, but since the two plants are always together, didn't want to risk it.... i hope the brownies are good though (i smoked where the plant got burned, sort of like what you did and got high as a kite, off about 4 hits)..... anyways, pay attention to the whole flushing thing, they may be on to something... i flushed mine out today, but i just let it run under the tap until it filled out, then it drained, about 7-8 times.... they didn't even look shocked... put up sum pics!! i wanna sEEEE!!!


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## Fractus (Sep 10, 2009)

Post #561 he did answer, the same answer actually. 1-2 tbsp./gal. Also I'm going to let her keep growing for a while before starting to flush again lol. And when I do it I'm still undecided if I want to redo it my way or do it the standard way. Mainly because I can't get enough water in there around the buds, the only way to avoid soaking the buds is to water from the bottom lol. I'll argue this until the end of time too, that I cleaned approxiamtely 87.5% of the salts out of my dirt with that "flush". If I can find a way to do it from the top I suppose I will simply because everyone says so, and not because I'm convinced it is better  But anyway we're past this now. Pics will come soon lol. I said that in the last post..


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## Goodguy1942 (Sep 10, 2009)

Hey Fractus great job on your box and grow. I've been following it for about a week now and I have learned quite a bit. 

I just have a couple quick questions.
So I'm fairly new to this. I ordered some Fem Lowryder seeds from Attitude. I'm building a grow box that's about 3ft high 2ft wide and 1.5ft in length. I'm trying to be cheap and stealthy so my question to any of you is, what would be the best kind of lights to use. I prefer non expensive lights. I'm only going to be growing about 2 plants. Also where is the best place to buy nutrients and how much do they usually cost? Are there good package deals for cheap? Any comments would be helpful. Sorry if I sound like a complete idiot I just don't want to spend a lot of money if I don't have to, yet still maintain healthy plants.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 10, 2009)

Fractus said:


> Post #561 he did answer, the same answer actually. 1-2 tbsp./gal. Also I'm going to let her keep growing for a while before starting to flush again lol. And when I do it I'm still undecided if I want to redo it my way or do it the standard way. Mainly because I can't get enough water in there around the buds, the only way to avoid soaking the buds is to water from the bottom lol. I'll argue this until the end of time too, that I cleaned approxiamtely 87.5% of the salts out of my dirt with that "flush". If I can find a way to do it from the top I suppose I will simply because everyone says so, and not because I'm convinced it is better  But anyway we're past this now. Pics will come soon lol. I said that in the last post..


Set your water container up above your plant and ciphon the feed to the plant with a small section of hose.

If you really CAN'T water/flush from the top without ruining buds (ie getting them wet) then do it your way.


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## Fractus (Sep 10, 2009)

Yeah I have a big water jug with a powerade top on it lol so it squirts accurately, but it will take forever to water anything over a gallon lol. Guess I'll just need to be patient 

And Goodguy1942, I think the best way to go as far as cost is concerned, is CFL's like what I used. I have 6 bulbs in there. The Kelvin rating is important because they stimulate different aspects of growth in the plant. Higher Kelvins (5500K -> 6500K or more) stimulates vegetative growth, lower ratings like 2700 ->4500 are great for flowering. I actually did a lot of reading about the light spectruma nd useful wavelengths, and knowing a lot about light waves will help you in the long run. CFL's are relatively inexpensive, for a standard 25 watt CFL (100w incandescent equivalent) you're looking at no more than 4$ a bulb.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 10, 2009)

Fractus said:


> Yeah I have a big water jug with a powerade top on it lol so it squirts accurately, but it will take forever to water anything over a gallon lol. Guess I'll just need to be patient


I spend at LEAST one hour per day mixing and watering, sometimes up to 2-3 at a time, and if there is OTHER work to be done, just general stuff, I can spend up to 4 hours at a time in the op working.

Long story short, you get no sympathy from me, with regards to your lack of patience with one gallon and one plant.


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## Fractus (Sep 10, 2009)

Haha geez you must do that for a living if you take that much time out of everyday on your ladies. Maybe I'll be there someday, but for now this is what I have: (taken with a friend's Nokia phone with a 5megapixel camera)












Gonna have some even better macros when my friend gets his 20 m.p. digital camera here. He's got some crazy lenses o.0


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## SimplyBaked (Sep 11, 2009)

lol i still cant believe u burnd ur cola off...


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## Fractus (Sep 11, 2009)

Yeah I know... that's what happens when you leave your plants under someone else's supervision. Someone else doesn't care like you do and shit gets burnt. But in the end I'm really glad it did burn off because it would be giving me so many problems right now! There's no chance it would have fit in that box.


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## TwinTigerz (Sep 11, 2009)

have to say I love the concept and construct, its cheap and easy to setup.


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## Fractus (Sep 11, 2009)

It was very easy to do. Ok I just bought some Schultz 8-14-9. The numbers seemed appropriate and I know lots of other people who aren't using FF use Schultz so I felt safe buying it. I paid 4$ for it lol. It's "African Violet liquid plant food"


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## potlike (Sep 12, 2009)

Fractus said:


> It was very easy to do. Ok I just bought some Schultz 8-14-9. The numbers seemed appropriate and I know lots of other people who aren't using FF use Schultz so I felt safe buying it. I paid 4$ for it lol. It's "African Violet liquid plant food"


Something else you can try that is readily available at most hardware stores and home depot etc etc would be Scott's Premium Potting Soil. If what you have doesn't work out give it a try it is very mild so it allows you maximal control on nutrients.

-potlike


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## redivider (Sep 12, 2009)

potlike said:


> Something else you can try that is readily available at most hardware stores and home depot etc etc would be Scott's Premium Potting Soil. If what you have doesn't work out give it a try it is very mild so it allows you maximal control on nutrients.
> 
> -potlike


that's the one i bought... i bought it cuz it's the cheapest one they have... and it's worked very nicely.....


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## SimplyBaked (Sep 12, 2009)

yeh i got that Scotts too...mainly because everything else i seen at the store was MG branded...and i heard MG aint too good...gives a bad taste...so i got the Scotts, Alaskan Fish Emu., Vermiculite and Perlite...didnt pay that much either...and o yeh Super Thrive


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## KaleoXxX (Sep 12, 2009)

damn, ive said this before, but im always surprised whenever i get a look into your grow box. look how long those pistils are! and look at all the fat budsites!


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## Fractus (Sep 13, 2009)

Guys I have a question, last night I saw that my pistils are turning brown/orange and sorta shriveling a little. I read two possibilities for the cause of this:
1) Old pistils are dying and making room for new ones and it natural on some strains.
2) It's almost time to harvest and if I wait too long I risk THC degradation.

I need a scope so I can keep an eye on my trichs.
I hope she isn't done yet because I'd kinda like to push her to get bigger now. I wonder if this also a response to her first little dosage of the Schultz fertilizer...


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## KaleoXxX (Sep 13, 2009)

it could be from the nutes, a change in temps or pollination(which causes pistils to shrivel up, but i highly doubt because you have no males....) have you seen maybe 1 little male pollen sack? i think it being pollinated is the least likely possibility.

i hope she thickens up more before harvest too. and i like how you said if each popcorn bud was a gram, youd have almost 2 Ozs


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## potlike (Sep 13, 2009)

Fractus said:


> Guys I have a question, last night I saw that my pistils are turning brown/orange and sorta shriveling a little. I read two possibilities for the cause of this:
> 1) Old pistils are dying and making room for new ones and it natural on some strains.
> 2) It's almost time to harvest and if I wait too long I risk THC degradation.
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to stir shit up again, but it is possible that the salts from the flush are doing their work now as it can take a couple days before it decides to show its' ugly head.


-potlike


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## Fractus (Sep 13, 2009)

Haha yeah she's even bigger now. I really wish I had a better camera for getting closeups of her. And the pistils are only discoloring at the upper budsites, so perhaps it is a heat issue. She's probably getting too close to those 6 bulbs, so I took the two 6500K out of there. Now it's just 2x3000 and 2x3500. Hopefully that fixes things. I know it has no male pollen sacks, I checked closely. The buds that are lower in the box are still all white and relatively straight out.

potlike-
I need you to educate me on this part because I don't really know (I also am not stirring shit up I'm being brutally honest lol). I didn't add any salts to my soil when I flushed it so if the pistils weren't discolouring before from the salt, why would they be now? I think it has been 5 days since that 'flush' and 2 days since my last watering (with the Schultz). Maybe this info will help you diagnose.


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## potlike (Sep 13, 2009)

Fractus said:


> Haha yeah she's even bigger now. I really wish I had a better camera for getting closeups of her. And the pistils are only discoloring at the upper budsites, so perhaps it is a heat issue. She's probably getting too close to those 6 bulbs, so I took the two 6500K out of there. Now it's just 2x3000 and 2x3500. Hopefully that fixes things. I know it has no male pollen sacks, I checked closely. The buds that are lower in the box are still all white and relatively straight out.
> 
> potlike-
> I need you to educate me on this part because I don't really know (I also am not stirring shit up I'm being brutally honest lol). I didn't add any salts to my soil when I flushed it so if the pistils weren't discolouring before from the salt, why would they be now? I think it has been 5 days since that 'flush' and 2 days since my last watering (with the Schultz). Maybe this info will help you diagnose.


pH problems cause salt build ups normally chemical salt build ups regular salt can do the same thing. Soil grows are much more forgiving than hydro and slower to act and CAN(not always) take up to a week before they show visible signs of things newly introduced into grow especially after being stressed. I was under the impression you flushed with salt water.

That said how old are your plants? It could be natural.... tbh, it can be a multitude of things.... it could be even phenotype related. Is it localized or all over the plant... sometimes if you accidentally got rough w/ an area of the plant it can bruise. It could also be a potassium deficiency. Best thing to do is go to hardware store first and buy a ph meter or soil test to check pH as that is one of the more serious things it could be and if so you need to fix it immediately. That will atleast help in ruling out the possibilities... post some pictures too.

-potlike


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## GypsyBush (Sep 13, 2009)

Tell you this Fractus...

You are NOT ready for harvest yet... there will be plenty more white pistils showing up...

Unless you totally fucked something I missed... but in all honesty...

You are doing better than I ever expected...


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 13, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Tell you this Fractus...
> 
> You are NOT ready for harvest yet... there will be plenty more white pistils showing up...
> 
> ...


I agree with this post completely.

You are nowhere NEAR THC degredation. Your plants aren't even ripe yet.

I am sure of it. I am further along than you into 12/12 and my plants are COATED in THC and some buds have up to 80% orange pistils, and I am nowhere near harvest.


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## Fractus (Sep 13, 2009)

Haha thanks Gypsy. I just took a few pics to give you guys an idea where my plant is at right now.
















Here check it out - Used the lens out of a cd player to take pics of my trichs, got the idea from someone else on this site . It's really hard to focus it with your hands though lol.. My trichomes still look pretty clear to me, what do you think?

















There's more of those in my profile if you need to see more. These were all taken from different budsites.


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## Fractus (Sep 13, 2009)

I wish I could get closer with the normal camera lense to show you what the pistils look like, but it just won't focus up close, and the lens I took from the cd player actually zooms in too far to see the colour of the pistils lol. I don't really expect that the slight browning is a problem I just thought I should check with people who have seen this before. If it is pH related would there be any other signs to accompany it? While taking pictures I noticed some of the upper leaves had a bit of an upward curve to them, which would indicate heat stress, right? I think that's most likely the cause. I'll see if it recovers with those 2 bulbs removed.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 13, 2009)

Those look like trich shots from leaves not buds.

Am I wrong?

Be careful because sometimes the leaves are further developed than the actual nugage 

She looks good though.

Not nearly ready either. Which is fine. Cause she will just be better as time passes.


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## Fractus (Sep 13, 2009)

You are right, they are from the tiny leaves immediately beside the bud. I couldnt get the lens close enough to the buds because of the pistils lol. I should get a real scope, this just made it so I didn't have to go get one right this minute. Next time I'm out I will probably pick one up. I'm glad to see that she isn't ready yet though because I wanted her to get much bigger before harvesting. I bet I can pull 4 ounces off of her (dry weight) by the time I harvest.  Feel free to make guesses and we'll see how close you are when it's done and dry


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 13, 2009)

Fractus said:


> You are right, they are from the tiny leaves immediately beside the bud. I couldnt get the lens close enough to the buds because of the pistils lol. I should get a real scope, this just made it so I didn't have to go get one right this minute. Next time I'm out I will probably pick one up. I'm glad to see that she isn't ready yet though because I wanted her to get much bigger before harvesting. I bet I can pull 4 ounces off of her (dry weight) by the time I harvest.  Feel free to make guesses and we'll see how close you are when it's done and dry


4 z's is a real stretch....

How much dirt do you have in there again?

And how tall is she?


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## Fractus (Sep 13, 2009)

The plant stands 10.5 inches above the dirt, I just did the math, LxWxH of the soil alone, and I was surprised to find out there is 576 cubic inches in there, so 2.5 gallons of soil. (between 1/4 and 1/3 perlite).
I know 4oz seems optimistic but here are a few numbers to consider. Her average branch length is 8 inches from the stem outwards and they curve up at the tip. There are 12 main branches, each one has between 4 and 8 budsites that are all looking to be at least a gram and growing straight up off the horizontal branch. The ends of each branch (where it curves upward) is a cola of it's own. They are the biggest buds of the plant so far. Here's a classic lighter pic to put things in perspective.


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## Fractus (Sep 13, 2009)

The above numbers were rough estimates of what I saw, but I actually was curious so I counted everything she has. These are my results:

There are 7 nodes with two branches growing on opposite sides of each. The numbers correspond to how many budsites are located on that specific branch, in brackets are how many of those budsites are growing straight up on individual sub-branches and resemble colas, on each node counting up from the bottom. (I excluded smaller budsites that I would consider to be less than a gram)

*Node___Branch 1___Branch 2*
1------------4 (1)------------4 (1)
2------------7 (1)-----------10 (2)
3------------8 (1)------------8 (2)
4------------5 (1)------------6 (2)
5------------6 (5)------------7 (4)
6------------5 (4)------------5 (4)
7------------4 (4)------------6 (5) 
*Total______83 (37)____*

So there are 83 budsites that I can see, that are worth at least a gram (I think, unless it shrinks a lot when you dry it, I don't really know because I never harvested before lmao, I'm comparing it to the size of a 1 gram dry bud ) And 37 of those 83 are colas that are significantly bigger than the rest of the budsites, fat ones growing like a cone straight up. Anyway, lets assume every worthy budsite amounts to one single gram, I pull 83 grams off of it, that is 3 ounces already. I don't think 4 ounces is out of reach. I'm kinda expecting more to be honest..


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## GypsyBush (Sep 13, 2009)

Sorry bro... you will be LUCKY to get 1 oz WET...

Right now... I would guess a 8th... MAYBE 1/4 IF everything keeps going PERFECT...

A few hot days.. or a slight nute burn and you are off the throne...

...

Sorry... there is NO WAY IN HELL you would get 4oz dried from this plant even if it was 4 times it's size....

...

Sorry Fractus.. but you know I do not bullshit you...

you can disagree with me if you want... but I will just see you at harvest time...


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## GypsyBush (Sep 13, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I don't think 4 ounces is out of reach. I'm kinda expecting more to be honest..



Hahaha...

You get 4 oz out of there ans I WILL GIVE YOU 4 oz out of my op to match...

Dude... wake up...

Look around RIU at some of the 4 oz plants... you might a more realistic idea...... 4 ozs...:that's a good one..

at least you're optimistic...

hope you take disappointment well too...


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## Fractus (Sep 13, 2009)

Yeah I put enough pictures up that you should be able to tell on some level approximately what my potential yield is, so if you say it's crazy to expect 4 then I trust you for it lol. I know you've seen your share of plants and harvested them. I could beat a quarter right now though NO DOUBT, i have to argue a little because it's my nature and because of the retarded mass that it has beneath what you can see in any of my pictures


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## Fractus (Sep 13, 2009)

For an experiment Gypsy, I came into this expecting disappointment. Of course I can handle it  If it comes to that. Or maybe I will just surprise you lol.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 13, 2009)

Dude... 4 ozs dry is A POUND WET...

Sorry bro...

I got people guessing that much for MY girls... 

No way.. no how...


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## GypsyBush (Sep 13, 2009)

Fractus said:


> For an experiment Gypsy, I came into this expecting disappointment. Of course I can handle it  If it comes to that. Or maybe I will just surprise you lol.



I honestly hope you make me EAT MY WORDS...

I hope you get 10 POUNDS...

But I am just being realistic... I know what a 1 gram bud looks like on a plant... and you do not have 80+ of them...


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## Fractus (Sep 13, 2009)

Well if that's the case then I'll aim to beat an ounce. My goal when I started this was to hit a half an ounce but I'm confident that if I harvested it right now I would have more than that. That's only 14 grams...


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## Fractus (Sep 13, 2009)

Actually man, is there any chance you have a pic of a one gram bud that I could compare to? It would give me a better estimate of what to expect.


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## KaleoXxX (Sep 13, 2009)

i think you could get over an oz or oz and a half. just keep doing what your doing


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## tkjoe (Sep 13, 2009)

really cool grow. i have a 1 plant grow box too, but i made mine alittle bigger! i had origionally thought of doing something like you did. but then settled for the pizza boxes int he garage. haha my grow has changed so much. check it out if ya like!!

im hopin ya get atleast an OZ out of it! that woul dbe sweet man!


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## Fractus (Sep 13, 2009)

Yeah wow, this guy's plant is a lot bigger than mine and this guy is calling it 2 ounces:
https://www.rollitup.org/outdoor-growing/237468-how-does-she-look.html

Although mine is much more filled out and solid than his.
A Canadian Loonie is one inch in diameter, and the majority of my buds are bigger than that, how much % should I expect it to shrink down after drying? If you said 4 ounces requires a pound wet, then I suppose it must be around 75% lighter.





I am aware that I probably shouldnt be shoving loonies in between buds but I thought this one time it was for a good cause lol. I counted 37 buds like the two you see here and some are twice as big on the tips of the lower branches. The rest of the 83 buds are slightly smaller than what you see here. I'm not exaggerating when I say 83, I counted them one by one and wrote it down as I counted on each branch. Gypsy, is it unlikely that by the time I harvest, my buds will be 1 gram dry?


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## BlessAmerica (Sep 13, 2009)

*Hey Fractus, *

* My first time on RIU in 2 months and your thread caught my attention. It looks like your doing pretty good man! I can always spot a newbie because we all (or so it seems) start this way ( a super small box sadly trying to be stealth with cables and light leaking out). A few years ago I wanted something stealth in my apt, so I used rubbermaid totes (it glowed like ET's finger). It worked, but I have long since upgraded, and I suggest you do the same. Here is my pitch.*

* Go to Lowes or Home Depot (or whatever conglomerate hardware store Mountie men go to up there), and buy yourself 2 2"X4"s and 3 3'X7'X8mm doorskins (doorskin is just thin plywood) total cost will be around $20-$25 US. If you don't own a saw, hammer and nails (I prefer screws and drill) then you will have to throw that into your final budget. Plot out a frame with the 2X4s to be a total of 3' wide X 2' deep X 4' high, then cut the doorskin to fit, and on the front cut out a square, keep the cut part and frame it using 3/4"X4" and hinge it to the box. You now have a grow box big enough for 4 semi-full size plants, that cost you less than $35, and should take about 6 hours to complete. *

* I've been using mine now for years (now houses non-MJ plants), I installed two 4" pc fans one high for exhaust and one low for intake, I have 6 2' T5s in 6500k and 2400k, and several 300w CFLs (those things are monsters). If you go through my threads you will come across it. Im sure you didn't care to get all this, but I think it would help in the long run. And it looks alot less conspicous than the styrofoam box with electricity running to it. As a side note I have also seen people convert old dressers into the same thing by removing the drawers and permenently attaching them to a front that secretly comes off, this is my ultimate goal. *

* One last thing, your plants are fine, running the normal coarse. You can expect much of the plant to look like garbage in these final weeks as it is naturally dying and using its stored nutes (the leafs) to supply the maturing flowers. Yes the pistils will turn orange then red. Some will completly disappear, but the plant will have a small second wind and continue the coarse. Forget what the inexperianced and ignorant say, ONLY harvest when the TRICOMES are cloudy and/or amber. *

* Good luck with your endevours. *

*-BlessAmerica*


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## littlegrower2004 (Sep 13, 2009)

fractus- just dont worry about how much your going to get in the end. just enjoy the stage of flower that you are and start preparing for your next grow. in the long run youll be happier to be surprised by more bud than expected. dont count your berries before there in your basket!!


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## Fractus (Sep 13, 2009)

I'm still in school though, I won't be able to spend cash building a new box until I get a job lol. But my next box is going to be completely home made and creative but I plan on spending a lot on it. I'm going to draw blueprints and stuff before starting and make sure everything is perfect haha.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 13, 2009)

I will give you some goodwill:

32 grams dried.

DRIED properly!!


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## Fractus (Sep 13, 2009)

But thanks for the tips. And yeah I don't need to keep count of yield. That's not even the coolest part. I'm just in awe of how fast it grows over night, I just watch her as she grows and I'm learning a ton. But it would be cool to have a nice yield too so I have plenty to share with my friends lol. YehYeh! Bigjesse with the highest bid so far. Trust me I'll do my homework on cutting and drying before I do anything. I hope to be having steady conversation with someone on here while I do it in case I have some specific questions.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 13, 2009)

Well drying it easy.

Just hang it upside down for a few days, until the stems "snap" when you try and break them.

You don't want to dry them TOO much though, as they will lose some more moisture during the curing process.

But you don't want them too moist either, otherwise you risk mold.

It should pretty much feel like weed you would get off the streets before you start curing it though, IMO.


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## SimplyBaked (Sep 14, 2009)

when do you plan on harvesting?


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## nickbbad (Sep 14, 2009)

Just a couple things I thought I would mention.You can get ph test strips for your water from walmart/home depot they cost like 5 bucks < Im not saying you need it but its a good thing to know. Dry bud weight is 1/4 of of wet weight and buds shrink dramatically once they dry. And from what I have read molasses will not really help you that much in your case because you are using chemical fertilizer which kills all the little micro organisms in the soil that feed on the sugars and produce the food(in organic growing) that the plant actually takes up. < I could be wrong on this last bit so I suggest more research into it but from what I read that is why its not used in hydro.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 14, 2009)

nickbbad said:


> Just a couple things I thought I would mention.You can get ph test strips for your water from walmart/home depot they cost like 5 bucks < Im not saying you need it but its a good thing to know. Dry bud weight is 1/4 of of wet weight and buds shrink dramatically once they dry. And from what I have read molasses will not really help you that much in your case because you are using chemical fertilizer which kills all the little micro organisms in the soil that feed on the sugars and produce the food(in organic growing) that the plant actually takes up. < I could be wrong on this last bit so I suggest more research into it but from what I read that is why its not used in hydro.


Bro, it's not the chem ferts that kill the bacteria...

It's the h2o2 that kills everything...

It just so happens that MOST people using chem ferts also use h2o2...

But I guarantee you that his soil is FULL of growies...

Molasses is a nono in hydro cause it makes a mess, and MOST people use chem ferts in hydro, negating the need to feed the bacteria with molasses...

Hope this clarifies more than confuses...


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## nickbbad (Sep 14, 2009)

I was wrong after doing some more reading on the subject its the build of salts from chemical ferts in the soil or overfeeding with chemical ferts that kill the micro organisms and the fact that chemical fertilizers do not feed the micro organisms like organic ferts. So instead of feeding the micro organisms and the micro organisms feeding the plants they just bypass the micros and just feed the plants. Hope that makes sense. Oh and while Im thinking about it fractus if you do get those ph test strips make sure you check the ph of the water after you put your fertilizer in it because that can change your ph a lot sometimes.


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## Fractus (Sep 14, 2009)

> when do you plan on harvesting?




Whenever she tells me she's ready 
I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say a few more weeks.

I'm probably gonna try molasses even if it were doubtful that it would do anything, because I don't think it can hurt anything. But I can't imagine I've given enough of any fertilizer to kill all the micro organisms in my soil. Here's a question, if I use those test strips, is it smarter to test my water before watering or to test my runoff water?


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## nickbbad (Sep 14, 2009)

Fractus said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Whenever she tells me she's ready
> I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say a few more weeks.
> ...


Using molasses shouldn't hurt anything and may help so give it a go and about the test strips its more important to test before but it also cant hurt to test the runoff .


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## GypsyBush (Sep 14, 2009)

Nick... in my hydro op... I KILL the organisms with h2o2 and just give the plant ferts she can use...

There is no such thing as "fake "P" or "K"... if it;s potassium, then it is potassium, regardless if it came from a lab or the asshole of a bacteria...

I just rather NOT deal with anything other than my plant.....

but that is just *MY* opinion...


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## nickbbad (Sep 14, 2009)

Gypsy you forget I have read and continue to read your threads (I just don't say anything unless I think there is something to be said< your threads are long enough without me constantly saying good job) and I know you kill off all the organisms with h2o2 and in no way was I saying that chemical ferts are bad. What I was trying to say is what is beneficial in organics is not necessarily beneficial when using chemical ferts and vise versa and may actually hinder growth as is the case with h2o2. Anyways your trees are looking great.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 14, 2009)

Thanks Bro... and I know you know bro... I used your name.. but I actually just wanted to clarify what I do to everyonelse that may be confused......

In reality... I'm just hijacking Fractus' thread..

...


Buahahahahaha!!!!


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## redivider (Sep 14, 2009)

i use cheap ass chemical fertilizers and the day after i put molasses in my soil my plants get just a lil bit stinkier... give it a shot... i'm actually putting more molasses than fert in the soil since last week... give it a shot fractus, let me know how it goes!!


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## Fractus (Sep 15, 2009)

> In reality... I'm just hijacking Fractus' thread..


It's a good way to get yourself heard because quite a bit of traffic comes through here lol. But yeah anyway the verdict is that it can't hurt, and will probably help, for me to give her a taste of molasses after I start my 2 weeks of flushing? I picked up test strips today as well for 4$ at walmart lol. I'll post some numbers up here tomorrow for anyone interested.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 15, 2009)

I don;t touch molasses cause I grow hydro...

But lots of folks use it in soil and swear by it...

I prefer to keep it as a people food, myself...

As for your pH strips..

Kinda pointless now actually...

Your water is OBVIOUSLY good... or you would have had troubles by now...

You just got lucky though.. if you move or they change the water somehow (if not from a well).. the pH may change...

Test it so you know how to... but uh... really bro... it's working...

I'd be afraid you saw the need to change something and fuck it up...


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## Fractus (Sep 15, 2009)

I think I will give molasses a try because so many people claim that it has great results. An improvement in flavour is always welcome in my books, as long as THC doesn't suffer. People also claim that it will help produce THC or some shit too.



> Your water is OBVIOUSLY good... or you would have had troubles by now...


I told people my water was fine it tasted fine, but I guess that isn't considered to be an accurate way of testing water. Lol. Just like people tell my my hand is not a thermometer. But really it is  It doesn't have an LED screen on my palm that tells me an exact number, but I definitely can register it in my head. I can always guess the outside temperature within 2 degrees at any given time, whether it is -10 or +16 Lol. I also can tell water temps by sticking my hand in a pool. A little off topic here but my point is that sometimes I don't need scientific readings to just know things. I have a sixth sense when it comes to guesswork.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 15, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I told people my water was fine it tasted fine, but I guess that isn't considered to be an accurate way of testing water. Lol. Just like people tell my my hand is not a thermometer. But really it is  It doesn't have an LED screen on my palm that tells me an exact number, but I definitely can register it in my head. I can always guess the outside temperature within 2 degrees at any given time, whether it is -10 or +16 Lol. I also can tell water temps by sticking my hand in a pool. A little off topic here but my point is that sometimes I don't need scientific readings to just know things. I have a sixth sense when it comes to guesswork.


BULSHIT.. but ok.. you can believe all that...

You just got LUCKY that your water worked out...

Fractus ... I have come to LOVE you... but boy... you need a little humility in you step...

Information is NOT knowledge ...

And knowing more than you lead others to believe is a virtue...

Let others inflate your ball.. it feels much better...

just a small piece of advice from AN OLD GUY that has been around the block a few times...

..

I hope you realize I am not trying to be mean...

If I didn't care about you, I wouldn't even come here...


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## potlike (Sep 15, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I think I will give molasses a try because so many people claim that it has great results. An improvement in flavour is always welcome in my books, as long as THC doesn't suffer. People also claim that it will help produce THC or some shit too.
> 
> 
> 
> I told people my water was fine it tasted fine, but I guess that isn't considered to be an accurate way of testing water. Lol. Just like people tell my my hand is not a thermometer. But really it is  It doesn't have an LED screen on my palm that tells me an exact number, but I definitely can register it in my head. I can always guess the outside temperature within 2 degrees at any given time, whether it is -10 or +16 Lol. I also can tell water temps by sticking my hand in a pool. A little off topic here but my point is that sometimes I don't need scientific readings to just know things. I have a sixth sense when it comes to guesswork.


I hate to burst your bubble again, but tasting water is NOT a test for how it works for growing. Chlorine is not good for plants and it is added in tap water for taste and there are alot of other things that are not as good... depending on your area it may hard water which isn't good for plants either.

You still got plenty to learn.

-potlike


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## GypsyBush (Sep 15, 2009)

Oh oh!!

I ONLY use tap water..

Does that mean my plants are doing BAD????


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## Fractus (Sep 15, 2009)

Ok ok...with the water I got lucky, lol. Temperature not so much! I can REALLY tell temperature without a thermometer! But it doesn't matter if you believe me or not, I got a thermometer to prove it to myself. The only reason I can be a little cocky here is because I know I'll never get close enough to anyone here that they can punch me in the face  Haha... Gypsy I know what you mean about letting others inflate your ball, you'd like me more if you met me, I'm more humble and rarely even accept when people brag me up or compliment me. But online I'm out of character because keeping quiet won't help me learn. I need to say the stupidest shit I can so that everyone is eager to teach me otherwise  That said, I'm gonna go argue some more.



> Chlorine is not good for plants and it is added in tap water for taste and there are alot of other things that are not as good... depending on your area it may hard water which isn't good for plants either.
> 
> You still got plenty to learn.


So do you. I can quote from a book that chlorine given in moderation IS good for plants. Also, it is not added to water for taste, it is added because it is a "highly effective disinfectant", good try though. The less chlorine I taste, the better my water must be. Both in terms of pH (based on the chlorine content) and also in terms of impurities. If there is not much chlorine in the water it means it was nearly clean to begin with and not much chlorine was added to disinfect it. 

If my water TASTES good and clean, then empirically I KNOW that it has a reasonable ppm and pH, even though I couldn't give it a precise number.. Tap water is only bad for plants if you live where there is natural bad water, or it's recycled and heavily loaded with chemicals to compensate.

EDIT: And you can definitely TASTE the difference. I can tell good water from bad water by the taste. No questions asked. For all of you to doubt me like this is surprising, you must not be so in tune with your senses..


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## GypsyBush (Sep 15, 2009)

Still "internet cocky as hell"...

But you are correct an several things there...

..

and as a side note...

If you acted more like you do in the real world, I would have pulled you aside and HELPED you get the most out of that little box...

But you were TOO (over the top) argumentative...

And I KNOW enough, and have PROVEN (with serious photo documentation) enough that I do not need to prove every point to you...

And just so you know...

I still believe your box can be a major hazzard...

And YOU NEVER LET ME TELL YOU WHY I BELIEVE THAT...

You ASSUMED MY REASONS...

If you go back and read... you never let me finish my train of thought...

So I think you are luck on many counts...

and that you LOOSE by putting up this "front"..

You attract people with opinions.. yes... but the people you really oughta listen to... they just read.. laugh and go away....

You are LUCKY to have Jesse and Little Grower here...

They KNOW what they are talking about.. and still have patience for your "front"...

I know I don't......

...


Now..

I MUST APOLOGIZE... I know I just sounded like an asshole...

hell.. we ALL know I am THE BIGGEST, RUDEST ASSHOLE on RIU...

But like I said,,,

I am spending my breath here trying to help you HELP YOURSELF..

And this "persona" of yours doesn't seem to respond to nice...

..

So bro... if you want I can delete this.. just say the word..

But if you pay attention to the message here.. YOUR GROW will benefit....

...


LOTS OF PEACE AND LOVE BROTHER... 

I am talking to you here like I talk to my CLOSEST friends... keeping it REAL..


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## Fractus (Sep 15, 2009)

Don't delete anything, but everything here isn't only for me. Even as personal as that seems toward me it could be equally helpful to anyone. But just to give you the peace of mind that you aren't wasting your breath, I'll have you knwo that I'm taking it to heart. And now you have me interested as to what possible hazards there are :S lol. I mean aside from the burning down half the planet because it's styrofoam is so flamable. I understand most people have lots of experience backing why they may say it is a fire hazard, but honestly, how many of them have experience with styrofoam as a building material? And if so, have they ever had it burn? I did my best to take all the proper precautions when I did this. What did I miss?


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## Fractus (Sep 15, 2009)

P.s.

If I was really as ignorant as I seem, you know damn well I wouldn't have been as successful as I have been up to this point. Even though I like to argue, I'm a sponge and I'm absorbing every bit of legitimate information in this thread. It will show when I build my next box, but that may be several months down the road. And once I'm past the newbie stage you'll also notice that I approach things differently. I'm sure you see already that I'm improving my application of knowledge, doing more research, and asking more questions. Of course I don't always just accept answers, I'm going to find out why every time to better understand. And once I learn something in whole I will be able to teach it and return what I know to other growers. I tend to hold my tongue when giving advice at this stage simply because I lack experience. You don't see me correcting people in other threads, or giving advice, or diagnosing problems. I keep it all right here. And when you're here there will more than likely be some newbie-like behaviour to tolerate. When the next box comes, it goes in a new thread, and a new attitude.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 15, 2009)

Just BE YOURSELF Bro... you'll win...

And one of the biggest concerns I have is the foam will melt at a fairly low temp...

Fans quit.. shit happens...

If the foam gets soft enough to warp.. only god knows what will end up where...

A bulb can fall and break... and stay there sparking...

Or you could get some of the water from the leaves ( i know you changed things with your new spout.. I'm just saying) onto the socket...

...

You say wood has a lower flashpoint... or was it card board?

regardless...

do this test ( or DON'T..)..

hold a bic lighter ON.. for 5 seconds against a sheet of plywood

Now do the same to a THICK sheet of cardboard (which I said was a bad idea too)...

See where this is going?

would you DARE try this with your box?

..

Are you going to tell me that no bic lighters will be flicked in your grow?

Fair enough...

But that bulb that fell and is sitting ther sparking is very capable of a 5 sec flame...

Remember.. there is a BALLAST attached to the light... and they are pretty cheap ones.. china or made or worse... little kids..

..

Seriously though... 99% chance nothing will happen...

But that 1% makes me way too nervous...

I would NEVER risk my home like that... I would have to turn it off every time I left..

But my home is worth a lot to me.. not just financially either...

...

My tent IS plastic... but everything was hanging from a STEEL FRAME and away from the walls...

..

I could keep going bro...

even as far as saying that by heating up the foam (if a fan quits or a ballast FUCKS UP) you MAY release toxic gases that can harm not only the plant, but pets and people as well...

..

Plus.. I just like to be right... cause I know everything and like to make every one feel like they are stupid asses... (how's THAT for MY new persona?..)..


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## Fractus (Sep 15, 2009)

Pretty good scenario, and I completely understand your concern. It all came back down to faulty equipment. The only way anything is burning is due to product defect, which is no more hazardous to styrofoam than wood. If a broken sparking bulb hit wood it would also set fire because odds are good it won't stop after 5 seconds. But yes the flash point of wood is lower than the melting point of styrofoam/plastic. The difference is that wood being more dense is somewhat more resistant to the heat initially so it may tak longer to heat wood to 240 degrees celcius than it would to get styro to 350 and ignite. It's all hypothesis though until it actually happens. I think anyone with any shit running while they are gone is at risk because of defect, but I personally don't feel any more unsafe using styrofoam as an alternative to wood or tupperware containers. If it isn't metal or fire retardant material, then it's really all the same in the end.. However you do have a point with the toxic gases because a little woodsmoke never hurt anyone. Burning plastics like styrofoam or tupperware is another story.

And your new persona isn't much different from your old one  You may be a wise old man but you do come off as a know-it-all. Who's to say you aren't though? If you give accurate info and have all the answers, why not give them out? You do, and you do. I have plenty of answers as well. Even though they may not be based on experience as a weed grower, don't rule out the possibility that I am someone who knows what he's talking about most of the time he opens his mouth. Not that I consider it a competition lol, you easily outwit me in plenty of areas regarding the topics on this forum, but I have experience with lots of things as well. I'm glad that you have at least a little faith.  If my plants were half dead you would have clued in that I actually am retarded and you'd be long gone by now!


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## GypsyBush (Sep 15, 2009)

You are right... shit fails...

ANY one of my HPSs can EXPLODE and set my house on fire...

Bugs lost just about EVERYTHING when EXACTLY THAT happened... in a PERFECT OP...

...

So even if we do the best we can we ARE still vulnerable...

The difference is that you chose to "store your gasoline next to the fireplace"..... by choosing a material that burns in a FLASH...

every second counts... and it looks to me that you have chosen the one material that is the least tolerant of heat... which we have plenty of...

...

And I am NOT a know it all...

Just really really really dry... almost like a technical manual...

The info does not come with a smile...  it's just raw data...

That is why I SEEM so rude.. even when I am trying to help...

It's just my real personality... kinda of a zero bullshit approach.. even if it doesn;t have pretty flowers around it...

...

But I am not a confrontational person... 

if you want to believe in whatever.. 

I think you have every right... even if you are fooling yourself..

...

As for your knowledge...

I AM SURE you know way more than I do about LOTS of things...

It's the attitude that makes people not take you seriously...

No one likes to deal with little punks...

And I know you are not one... so why make people think you are one...?

..

And Bro...

If I didn't believe in you from DAY ONE.. I would have never subscribed... even though I don't believe in your set up... because of safety..

Sometimes we just meet people and for no reason we like them......  then it's up to them to keep it that way...


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## GypsyBush (Sep 15, 2009)

Ps. I wish you could see the smirk on my face when I say/read that last part..

Sarcasm does not translate well on forums.. but I think you got it...



> Plus.. I just like to be right... cause I know everything and like to make every one feel like they are stupid asses... (how's THAT for MY new persona?..)..












well... 

ok....

more like...


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## Fractus (Sep 15, 2009)

Oh I caught it. Pretty amusing for a dry guy like you lol. And so is that picture, wow! 

The advantage to setting styrofoam on fire is that it will burn up quick, and then be nothing. Wood can burn for hours. But with anything flammable near by (like in my closet for example, haha...) flaming styrofoam would be a big problem even if it only stayed lit for 30 seconds before melting into a little puddle. 

I could write page long responses to all the stuff you say and I'm sure you'd write them back, but I'm exhausted and going to sleep lol. We'll resume later.
Cheers Gypsy!

By the way, we're gettin high together someday lol. Gonna make a salad joint with both of our dope mixed together and talk philosophy. I'm actually writing a book right now. Someday when trust overcomes risk of being caught, we are gonna chill.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 15, 2009)

Good Night Fractus...


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## nickbbad (Sep 15, 2009)

As far as the chlorine goes it doesn't really hurt your plants unless its in high amounts but it does kill those micro organisms I was talking about earlier... And all you have to do to get rid of it is leave your water out for a day. OH and I start using molasses about 3 weeks in and have seen results with it over previous grows without it.


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## potlike (Sep 15, 2009)

Fractus said:


> Ok ok...with the water I got lucky, lol. Temperature not so much! I can REALLY tell temperature without a thermometer! But it doesn't matter if you believe me or not, I got a thermometer to prove it to myself. The only reason I can be a little cocky here is because I know I'll never get close enough to anyone here that they can punch me in the face  Haha... Gypsy I know what you mean about letting others inflate your ball, you'd like me more if you met me, I'm more humble and rarely even accept when people brag me up or compliment me. But online I'm out of character because keeping quiet won't help me learn. I need to say the stupidest shit I can so that everyone is eager to teach me otherwise  That said, I'm gonna go argue some more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok you caught me sleeping.... yeah everyone can stand to learn more and yes chlorine is added as a disinfectant it is other chemicals added for taste. Now, all that said I use tap water also, but I get 130 ppm which is pretty low as far as tap water is concerned.

I agree with gypsy man, take just a half step back on the 'know it all attitude' and you can learn even more here. Rollitup is a great source for learning how to grow tasty monster buds. I still love learning things here so it's just right to be cool everyone and especially the ones willing to help here. 

ps: I'm on an extremely 'lets all get along kick' right now becuz I'm incredibly blazed and listening to jah roots lol....

-potlike


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## Fractus (Sep 15, 2009)

The water that I water with has been left out for at least a day, usually 2 because after watering I fill up the jug and leave it there for next time. Chlorine should have evaporated by then and hopefully won't kill any little buggers in my dirt, and I will try the molasses  I have a question! Can you put earthworths in your weed dirt? They recycle shit all the time and loosen dirt and make it great for growing flowers, I know that. Or you could just put the worms near the grow so they attract Alaskan fish so you can emulsify them. Bahaha.



> I agree with gypsy man, take just a half step back on the 'know it all attitude' and you can learn even more here. Rollitup is a great source for learning how to grow tasty monster buds. I still love learning things here so it's just right to be cool everyone and especially the ones willing to help here.


I hear ya dude. The only thing about not putting all my chips on the table is that things get missed... If I have ideas or whatever that others didn't mention, or factors in an argument that somebody missed when stating a point against my grow, I like to explain why I think it's logical before saying "yes you are right" and both parties learn from it that way. But look at me I'm doing it again, saying all this shit like I know all about this. But really I'm doing exactly what I just explained. Holy hell I'm confusing myself right now, props to anyone who can follow me on this haha...

I'll most likey will always have a lot to say and in great detail about the topic at hand but I can also strive to do so in a more friendly and approachable manner. Maybe the advice I get will suffer less if I don't try to make it difficult for people to come back with an answer lmao.  See, I'm learning!


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## purpdaddy (Sep 17, 2009)

i would suggest this supplement than straight molassas



 

FloraNectar &#8482;
*Sweetener *


Our scientists have formulated FloraNectar to optimize the greatest transference of sweetness and aroma into your fruits and flowers.
FloraNectar contains all natural raw cane sugar, molasses, malt syrup, select plant based esters, L-amino acids, organic acids, polyflavonoids, vitamins and essential minerals.
This unique blend of ingredients helps your plants regulate enzymes that trigger specific reactions involved in maintaining optimal metabolism. This allows your plants to achieve a balance between respiration and photosynthesis in high intensity growing environments where the rate of respiration can sometimes exceed the rate of photosynthesis.
As a result, FloraNectar ensures optimal metabolic rates during the flowering and fruiting phase when nitrogen levels have been reduced. 
FloraNectar also promotes a sturdier plant structure during the vegetative phase when high levels of nitrogen are present. 
FloraNectar fulfills the additional energy requirements of your plants throughout all phases of growth and during stressful times of transition.
*FloraNectar FruitnFusion is available in the following quantities*


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 19, 2009)

Fractus said:


> I'll most likey will always have a lot to say and in great detail about the topic at hand but I can also strive to do so in a more friendly and approachable manner. Maybe the advice I get will suffer less if I don't try to make it difficult for people to come back with an answer lmao.  See, I'm learning!


So it seems...


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## GypsyBush (Sep 19, 2009)

HIJACK...

Please spread this video....

Let's help them SEE...

[youtube]BBNyuf533Go[/youtube]


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## DLC420 (Sep 19, 2009)

yeah, i would make sure heat isnt an issue like almost everyone else said but other then that that looks likea great setup lol


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## sweet island skunk09 (Sep 20, 2009)

hey fractus u should take some new pics how's she budding?


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 20, 2009)

Yeah where you at bro?


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## Smokeybare (Sep 20, 2009)

Da Superman said:


> I like the setup nice and clean and pretty much anyone can do it.


What type of fan are you thinking you will be using in the future? Also the setup looks great.


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## Smokeybare (Sep 20, 2009)

what kind of fan are you going to use?


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## Fractus (Sep 22, 2009)

Heat is only an issue with two many bulbs + not good enough ventilation. I learned this the hard way and lost my centre cola, which is Ok because it was an accident that helped me out in the end, cutting off the top made everything at the bottom flourish, and keep away from the lights. Sorry, I was away for the last 72 hours and I didn't water her the whole time. I gave her a drought, under supervision. I came back to yellow fan leaves, everything else still dark green but droopy. I watered today, and after 6 hours, everything in her was stiff and healthy again, she drank almost he whole gallon of water in that much time. Anyway, I plucked the yellow fan leaves and they popped off very easily. All of the dark green stuff is solid. Pics are below t show how she is doing now.

A lot has been going on, and by friday I'll be moved out of this apartment. I do not want to take a living plant in a growbox with me, so I need to harvest by Friday and somehow be drying the buds in a portable container, disassemble my box and take it with me, and set it up where I'm going. So I'm going to need some help from all of you to guide me through the best possible way to harvest by thursday night/friday. I'm aware that I will be skipping the full 2 week flush stage and any opportunity to put molasses in the mix. Also, over 50% of my pistils are browned now and lots of them have begun to recede, so at least I'm not TOO early... My next grow will be better I think.

Pics of Today:


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## GypsyBush (Sep 22, 2009)

what was the first day of 12/12?


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## Fractus (Sep 22, 2009)

August 13th was day 1 of flower. That means this thursday will be day 42. I know it could go longer but I'm not going to take it with me as a plant in a growbox and carry it out of my apartment building..


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## Blue Moonshine1 (Sep 22, 2009)

this looks cool but...... how much do you think this will yield?? cant be much.


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## Fractus (Sep 22, 2009)

I don't really expect it to be a lot not, I wish I could have let her go longer.. Next time will be different. This time I have to cut it short due to life changes, I'm leaving and she can't come unless she's hidden away. We'll see what she yields though. I don't think I'll be disappointed by the affect it has on me either ^^


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## KaleoXxX (Sep 22, 2009)

maybe you could get a pair of screens and a FRESH pizza box(dont want your buds smelling like a pizza place) put one screen down, lay the buds on top and another screen over them and pack this up with all of the stuff your moving. when you get to the new place, find a dark closet to hanh them in and hope for the best

ive loved following your grow fractus, even though youve had some nay sayers, you made this grow work. and also your cheap and simple growbox is inspiring. i hope you yield somewhere near an ounce, your buds are looking thick and tasty


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## Fractus (Sep 22, 2009)

Dude that's such a good idea, and I can get a pizza box no problem. And I have screen so I may do that. And instead of hang them in a closet, all I really have to do is clean out my growbox and hang them in there, lights off and fan turned on with carbon filter. I could dry them without stinking anywhere up.


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## KaleoXxX (Sep 22, 2009)

Fractus said:


> Dude that's such a good idea, and I can get a pizza box no problem. And I have screen so I may do that. And instead of hang them in a closet, all I really have to do is clean out my growbox and hang them in there, lights off and fan turned on with carbon filter. I could dry them without stinking anywhere up.


great example of group think!

i wa s thinking you could hang dry them in your cooler too, but then the pizza box idea hit me


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 22, 2009)

So what forced you to move unexpectedly?


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## Fractus (Sep 22, 2009)

yeah a pizza box could sit right in the front seat with me and a cop could pull me over and not think anything of it lol. Anyway right now I gotta go get some things done, I will be back a bit later.



bigjesse1922 said:


> So what forced you to move unexpectedly?


Changed my mind on what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I'm living away from home in college right now, I'm moving back home to work a full time job until january when next semester starts and then I'll be going to a different school taking something completely different. It's going to be a big change. That's about as detailed as I can explain it without telling you where exactly I live or what school I'll be going to lol.


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 22, 2009)

Why not just put your box in a bigger box and move?

Is it a long move?


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## Fractus (Sep 22, 2009)

It's about a 4 hour drive, during my plant's lights-on time. Right square in the middle of it actually..lol. 
Maybe that isn't enough to have an impact on her, but I'm sure it's a gamble. Also I have nowhere to set up the box at home because my parents don't know I'm doing it and I'd rather they don't find out. I'm going to take it apart so that I can fit it in my trunk and take it to my friend's house and putmy growbox right beside his growbox and visit him often


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## GypsyBush (Sep 22, 2009)

Fractus.. you are right...

You shouldn;t risk a 4 hour dive with your grow in the car....

But I would cut at the LAST SECOND POSSIBLE...

Toss your wet buds in a a couple of paper bags, then a garbage bag...

Trim and dry them AS SOON AS YOU GET THERE...

But just remember...

up to 25% of the weight comes in the last 2 weeks...

CHOP AT THE LAST POSSIBLE NANO SECOND...

Like.. 

You're READY TO GO... go back and chop real quick... then go..

LAST LAST LAST thing you do...

Give them chance to make you happy..

Once dry, you will have about 1/4 of what you see now... help yourself by letting them go as long as humanly possible...

That is MY advice anyways....


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## Fractus (Sep 22, 2009)

I could hook it up in the backseat of my car with a power inverter from my cigarette lighter. But maybe a glowing box would look suspicious there lol. 

Realistically though, yes I will definitely wait until that last minute. Or maybe I could trim her while she's still alive and then chop'n'roll later. What if I rolled up my buds in paper towel and all pointing in the same direction, and just have them upside down for my drive? Lined up in a PIZZA BOX that stands vertically. That's a little suspicious too but funny as fuck. I would definitely do something like that.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 22, 2009)

WHY COMPLICATE IT?

Just put it in a few paer bags then a plastic bag and THROW IT in you luggage...

Don;t make a big deal out of carrying a few buds..!!! it's silly...

And I say paper first cause it will help dissipate some moisture...

but in 4 hours YOU WILL BE FINE!!!!


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## Fractus (Sep 22, 2009)

Haha cool man. People just always emphasized having it upside down so much I didn't wanna break the rules, you know? 
But yeah ok. I'm sure I can find some paper bags around here somewhere.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 22, 2009)

I'm serious Bro...

just chop them, Trim them if you can...

But if you can't... that's fine too...

I have trimmed buds at every stage... and they ALL get me high...

I have even dried WITHOUT manicure and then just picked the dri leaves off as I rolled my J's..

At this point, the only rule you should follow is that you want them to GO AS LONG AS POSSIBLE...

It will only BENEFIT YOU...


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## Fractus (Sep 22, 2009)

Haha alright. I trust you. But this part made me laugh:


> I have even dried WITHOUT manicure and then just picked the dri leaves off as I rolled my J's..


I can't say that I've ever done this because people don't sell it like that, but now since I grew my weed I have the option to do this if I want to lol. I will probably trim all her leaves off before I go, and then cut her when I'm done and throw her in the bag and put her in my trunk. And have way way with her later. Bahaha


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## Fractus (Sep 22, 2009)

Also, since I still have until the 25th before chopping, I'm going to flood her tonight and give her a hint of molasses, and then let her use all of it for Friday, because she drank a whole gallon in the past 24 hours and the soil is dry again.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 22, 2009)

Make sure you chop first then trim...

So you can collect your sugary leaves...

Do not waste them...

Hell if you smake that male and caught a buzz... trim is PRIMO then..

But seriously... save them dry them and make just enough cannabutter for 1 or 2 batches of brownies...


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## Fractus (Sep 22, 2009)

Haha alright for sure man. I'll keep you posted.


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## Fractus (Sep 22, 2009)

I took more cd-player-lens pics to see where my trichs are at, and anything else microscopic that I could get focused on. I don't even know what a lot of what I'm looking at is. I know in the last 2 pics in the next post I tried like 10 times to get a decent shot, it's a couple reddish pistils coming out of a swelled up calyx I'm pretty sure. I'm putting up another post with the remaining pictures that wouldn't fit in this post lol.


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## Fractus (Sep 22, 2009)

I have no idea what the black lines are in the second picture here.


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## Fractus (Sep 23, 2009)

Tonight I was using tweezers and plucking away at a few fan leaves coming out from around the buds that were shading other things. I pulled probably 30 of these little fans, and then I scraped the tweezers off on a knife, and realized I had a little ball of dark brown hash. I heated up the blades and smoked that thing right away and I'm really impressed with both flavor AND effect! I'm pumped now.


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## konezone (Sep 24, 2009)

very nice, i am using the same idea for clones


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## konezone (Sep 24, 2009)

btw the pics u posted look like burns, the lights are prolly way too close to the box


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## Fractus (Sep 24, 2009)

konezone said:


> btw the pics u posted look like burns, the lights are prolly way too close to the box


I don't know where you mean.. Which picture are you referring to? None of the styrofoam inside the box is discoloured or melted if you are wondering if heat was an issue. But heat like that would have killed my plant too.. Actually, on the inside of the top cooler there is a yellow stripe that goes around it from when I had duct tape in it a long time ago, and when I took it off the adhesive stuck to the styrofoam lol. But you can't see this stripe in any recent pictures I've posted..


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## Fractus (Sep 26, 2009)

Yesterday I moved out completely, and harvested my plant last, and trimmed quickly before I left, keeping all my scraps. I took a few pics of what I had left. Right now I don't have the growbox setup again, I'm not sure exactly where or when I'm going to have it up and running again, but I assure you it will happen within the next month. So anyway, take a look at my harvest  I don't have a scale to weigh it but it looks like more than an ounce to me lol. You tell me.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 26, 2009)

Congrats Bro...

Let us know how she smokes...

And I would recommend setting aside a bud or 2...

Cure them right... forget about them for at least 4 to 6 weeks...

Then enjoy what only a full cure can give you...


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## Fractus (Sep 26, 2009)

Yeah thanks man, that is the plan. I have it all in two paper bags in a relatively dark closet, but well ventilated enough that I won't need to worry about any mold or anything. I appreciate all the help along the way


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## sweet island skunk09 (Sep 26, 2009)

finally some harvest


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## greengrowthexpert (Sep 27, 2009)

Good job Fractus! I'll be waiting for your next grow =[]


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## SimplyBaked (Sep 27, 2009)

nice harvest homie..buds looks plump...let us know how they smoke


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## str8dropkid (Sep 28, 2009)

*nice stuff to read from ad i learned a lot of shit reading these blog...lol*


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## jah.jitsu (Sep 28, 2009)

Nice grow. howz da smoke.
how much soil did u use here?
and how many weeks in veg until u switched to 12/12 from seed.

im def gonna try this. thanx

Jah.


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## KaleoXxX (Sep 28, 2009)

sorry i missed your harvest fractus, ive been at my last grandparents funeral a few states away. i would have loved to be able to check this out at the hotel, but this site was blocked because of "drug related material".

it looks like more than an oz right now, and ill bet it weighs at least 3, but as it dries it will louse about a 1/3 of its weight and some buds may shrink a bit

i cant wait to follow your next grow like i did this one. i cant wait almost as much as i cant wait to get my own going. i fell every year i spend not growing is another wasted year


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## Hauvert (Sep 30, 2009)

fractus...i read every page of this forum. ALL 70 pages and i am truly impressed with what you had going. a lot of ppl doubted you'd even get to harvest. i like your grow set up and everything.


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## nickbbad (Sep 30, 2009)

Hauvert said:


> fractus...i read every page of this forum. ALL 70 pages and i am truly impressed with what you had going. a lot of ppl doubted you'd even get to harvest. i like your grow set up and everything.


To help with your reading

https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/204109-how-cut-your-reading-time.html#post2618366


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## Hauvert (Sep 30, 2009)

nickbbad said:


> To help with your reading
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/204109-how-cut-your-reading-time.html#post2618366


she's mad cute and you most def. don't wanna miss any speed bumps.


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## bigjesse1922 (Oct 15, 2009)

I kind of always knew this thread was just going to abruptly die...


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## Fractus (Oct 15, 2009)

It didn't die, every story has to have an ending and this one is over. There will be another one eventually. I'm not gone for good, only temporarily my friend!


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## blowone (Oct 15, 2009)

house fire


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## dothedewb (Oct 15, 2009)

you need air circulation


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## Fractus (Oct 15, 2009)

I had good circulation and my apartment never caught fire for the 3 months I had it running. Call it luck if you want to. I had a successful learning experience with no expenses because if you put weed in terms of money, I broke even and still have all my supplies. If you're careful in your design, this is no more hazardous than cabinet or rubbermaid growboxes, but to each his own. If you don't like it, don't copy it. I've already proven it can be done.

By the way I've been smoking away lately and loving it. I left probably 1/4 of my harvest where I was living before with my friends just because I wanted some feedback from everyone. And I smoked a bunch too before I ever weighed it. I still have 15 grams left and it's about half of what I started with (visually). I think I harvested too soon for the couch lock effect, but I'm very pleased with it. The buds dried and hardened like rocks, the high is strong, energetic and makes you laugh a lot haha. Overall I'm a happy camper. Thanks to everyone who helped me out!


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## SimplyBaked (Oct 18, 2009)

congrats!


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## josh b (Oct 18, 2009)

i am vegging my plants under 2700k lights and are soft/cool and they are doing ok


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## Fractus (Oct 18, 2009)

Probably not. I don't think it would hurt them because your bulbs are most likely full spectrum, but it won't make them grow very fast because the majority of light being produced is for stimulating flowering in your plants. You want to be above 5500k for vegging, less than 4500k for flowering. Also, you may have difficulty initiating your flower cycle because your plant responds when you switch to 12/12 and when you change the lights to lower Kelvins. You should probably pick up some 5500s/6500s whenever you can. That's my opinion. Cheers!


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## blowone (Oct 18, 2009)

fire hazard


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## Fractus (Oct 18, 2009)

So are hot air balloons but they still make them right?


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## KaleoXxX (Oct 23, 2009)

what up buddie, glad to see you enjoying your harvest

i m pumped about a bill that being voted on that means i might be able to grow legally like all these lucky calli suns of bitches


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## bobonthewater202 (Oct 23, 2009)

i tried this in my first apartment and the only problem i had was with algae growing in the sides if the styrofoam, even with the 84 cfm ham radio fan i had going all the time i was able to get rid of it by getting a micro computer fan that blew across the plants to push the humity out. but all in all, it should turn out pretty badass.


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## Cataclismic (Dec 28, 2009)

Questions I have concerning this set up

1. Is it possibly to grow maybe 2-3 in this?

2. How did you change the lighting fixtures once it out grew the first cooler?


Fractus you've inspired me fully on building something like this. My only concern though is if I'm gonna spend all this money with the lights and etc I definitely want at least 2-3 plants inside


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## Fractus (Dec 29, 2009)

I don't think you could comfortably grow 2 plants, start to finish, in a box this size. I started with with two until they got about 10 inches high and I could determine sexes:





At this stage, I had a divider in the top half of the cooler which allowed my lights to hang closer to the plant. See how low I have the lights in the following picture:






One turned out male, the other female. I killed the male, and shifted the female over to the center of the box. She grew up fast and then I took out the "compartment" of the cover-cooler and ran my lights direcly through the top, like you see in the next picture. This allowed an extra 6-7 inches room to the ceiling.






After that, instead of adjusting lights anymore, I just tied her to accomodate for the fixed positioning of my lights. That way she didn't get too close to the bulbs and all the buds got equal lighting. Here you can see the strings holding her down, and 1 plant pretty much filled up my box:






I hope this answers your questions, if you have anymore feel free to ask.


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## sweet island skunk09 (Jan 1, 2010)

i'm struggling to search back that far, but i just cant find were it shows how you powered your exhaust system, and what parts u used. how did you?


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## Fractus (Jan 1, 2010)

It is different now than it was originally. When I described how I did it the first time, it was two 12V DC computer fans, powered by a 12V ac/dc adapter. Plugs right into a 110/120V outlet. It's very simple, but eventually I decided I wanted more airflow than that so now what I have instead is a 4" steel axial fan that I found at a hardware store that actually runs on 120V AC, so now I just put that one in place and plug it in. It looks very similar to the one in this picture:






I would recommend this over doing it like I did at first. You can get this fan for less than the price of a AC/DC converter alone around here lol. This provides great circulation for the size box I used.


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## sweet island skunk09 (Jan 1, 2010)

what store do u think has those?


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## Fractus (Jan 2, 2010)

I found mine at Princess Auto. I'm sure you would be able to find them somewhere else as well.. It depends where you live and what stores you have access to, lol..


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## Fractus (Jan 13, 2010)

Hey, for anyone who is interested in seeing how the next styro-grow turns out, I'm starting a new grow in the next couple of days. This time I'm putting it in a grow journal where it belongs though. I do welcome anyone's opinion or advice on that thread, I'll be updating it weekly if not more. The details and differences of this grow compared to the last one will be described as well.
Thanks for all the support so far!

New thread link:
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/292455-fractus-back-second-styro-grow.html


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## wanabe (Dec 9, 2010)

dam thats crazy she yielded hella great job


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## Fractus (Dec 10, 2010)

You know what though? I'm currently working on a slightly larger scale grow in a closet with a 150 W HPS bulb + 4x2700K 23W CFL's, and the progress so far is less than the progress of my CFL styrofoam grow. That plant grew like it was on steroids and this one is growing totally normal and after 35 days just showed pistils. So yeah.. I'm starting to think the reflective styrofoam case was the best idea I ever had haha. Somehow the results were much more immediate, and the crop ended up being more valuable than the setup itself after the first grow. 100$/oz where I come from would be a damn silly price. I only spent 100$ on the entire styro setup.


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## LoveTheLeaf (Apr 14, 2013)

I tried it for my single plant - great grow box!!! 


_The container I decided to go with - A styrofoam cooler, air tight, spacious, easy to work with, inexpensive, and already white!_






_The red squares are where I intend to install my fans. Later on, when I need it I want to install a carbon filter on my exhaust fan._
_The black circles are where those light fixtures are going to be mounted horizontally, I think all of the lights together will give an even and adequate light distribution for my plant._
_The lights consist of 2 pairs of soft white CFL's, 1600 lumens/23 watts (=100 watt incandescent)_






_The cover to the box - that is a 3300 lumen soft white CFL @ 55 watts (= 150 watt incandescent). I plan to have this mounted in such a way that I can adjust the height of it to sit just over the plant at all time. (And when the plant is too high, I have an extra cooler, and will set one bottom piece inverted on top of the other and remount my dome light)_






All advice & criticism is welcome, I'm a newb [/QUOTE]


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